# Alpha Legion: Your Thoughts



## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

After reading Legion and looking at some other pieces of fluff, I have to wonder, Is Alpha Legion really committed to chaos? They may be fighting for the chaos gods but their reason is for the ultimate survival of the galaxy and the downfall of chaos. Also, out of all the traitorous legions, they're the least changed. Lastly, Alpharius even says at the end that he will always fight for the Emperor and that he would always fight for the Emperor's best interest. Am I missing some fluff some where that would suggest otherwise?


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

My take on the novel was that they decided to rebel in the hope that if Chaos won, it would burn itself out in a relatively short time, and humanity could flourish again after, whereas if the Imperium triumphed, humanity would be subjected to millenia of warfare and fear of corruption as Chaos continued to try to conquer it. They took what they thought was the better option. Unfortunately, it didn't work out for them.

Even though their motives might have been pure at the outset, IMO they couldn't have gone ten thousand years without eventually going to the dark side for real.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

I dunno, like I said, their armor remains just the same as if they hadn't turned to chaos. The only difference is a few of them have horns and such on the helmets now, but hey, they gotta blend in somewhat. Maybe it's going to turn out that they have been working in secret and come to save the emperor or humanity or something. After all, if they have turned to chaos, which god do they worship? Chaos undivided I would assume. But in the book it didn't even give the slightest hint that they had even thought of turning to chaos besides the thought of aiding humanity.


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## wd6669 (Feb 27, 2008)

i think they tried to be good up until either Alpharius or Omegon got killed by the Ultramarines and which ever brother survived probably turned to chaos


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

in my eyes GW have only recently decided to make the AL fluff what it is now. before they were just a plain old chaos marine legion.

in terms of why some look like chaos marines then maybe it was abit like the dark angels in that half are bad and half are still good.
i think that after seeing the acuity alpharius had 2 years before the heresy and maybe he had been corrupted or lost sight of the objective in that time. 
it is speculated that omegon saved some of the primarchs at the drop site massacre so maybe he is leading the good half of the legion and alpharius lead the corrupt part.
they could have decided that this was the best course of action as no one knew about omegon and would have been best suited to do any clandestine operations for the good of the imperium while alpharius would have been able to get on with any orders horus had for the legion. 
i hope they follow on from legion as it was the best book in terms of revelations and fluff and could spawn a whole series of its own.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

I have to agree that out of all of the heresy books I read (which includes them all except for the very latest one), I liked Legion the most. At least the parts that included Alpha legion. I can't say that i liked reading about IG so much. Yes, they add a humanistic quality and love story to it all but IMO love stories always kill a good action plot. So I can't say I was all that heartbroken when the (spoiler alert, don't keep reading this sentence if you don't want to know) IG unit got wiped at the end.


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## Fluff'Ead (Aug 22, 2007)

BloodAngelZeros said:


> Am I missing some fluff some where that would suggest otherwise?


Well, they form Chaos cults for their spy network, spread anti-imperial propaganda and launch terror attacks.



> But in the book it didn't even give the slightest hint that they had even thought of turning to chaos besides the thought of aiding humanity


Aiding humanity? They agreed to sacrifice mankind in order to destroy Chaos.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

Fluff'Ead said:


> Well, they form Chaos cults for their spy network, spread anti-imperial propaganda and launch terror attacks.


-Yes, but that could all be what they want everyone to think. They have to be somewhat convincing that they're chaos. Now, all the mutations and daemonkin and such would be even more convincing. 



Fluff'Ead said:


> Aiding humanity? They agreed to sacrifice mankind in order to destroy Chaos.


-Yup, aiding humanity. The major push was that not only would chaos be destroyed, but rather than having humanity suffer for millenia, they would be mostly or completely extinguished in a very short time. Now yes, this doesn't fit the, "fight for the good guy and everybody lives happily ever after" type of helping but they were given two choices: fight for the Imperium and have the suffering of humanity be dragged out forever or to fight for chaos and have everything occur swiftly. It's like choosing between being decapitated by a nice razor sharp sword or a blunted axe. You don't like the inevitable outcome but you'd rather choose the quickest, cleanest, less painful route there (unless pain is your thing, which in that case, by all means choose the blunted axe).


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## Fluff'Ead (Aug 22, 2007)

BloodAngelZeros said:


> Yes, but that could all be what they want everyone to think. They have to be somewhat convincing that they're chaos.


I doubt that the Imperium needs to be convinced after the Horus Heresy and since they never fled to the Eye of Terror they are out of reach of the other Legions. 
In the codex there is a story in which they destroy a loyal chapter after having infiltrated their home world for centuries and raze the planet ...as cover-up? 



> Yup, aiding humanity.
> 
> [...]


Yes, I've already read the book, thank you.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

> it is speculated that omegon saved some of the primarchs at the drop site massacre so maybe he is leading the good half of the legion and alpharius lead the corrupt part.


Where was that nugget written? Interesting if it's canon, or is it just a theory?


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

there is mention of a dark suited individual that was seen through the smoke helping take away the loyal primarchs that had been wounded at DSM. it is speculated that this was omegon as he was the wearer of a black power armour. hopefully this turns out to be true as it would make the AL fluff more interesting than them simply turning to chaos.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

Yeah, it would be interesting because than The Dark Angels wouldn't be the only legion that got split down the middle.


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## Alaric (Jun 10, 2008)

legion was a veryyy good read. and gave soo much information. but from what i undertsood. in the book you see how dedicated they are to there mission. and there mission now is a lifelong one one to fight for chaos against there own "master". they are so dedicated and try to blend so well they would worship gods. and fight against the loyal legions as if they were actually for chaos. there just soo devoted to there missions that they fight as if they are chaos. but really there doing it for the imperium.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

Well that's just it, the key phrase being _as if_ this still leaves room to say that if their mission suddenly, for some reason dictates that no longer fighting for chaos is in the best interest, than they're liable to not fight for chaos any longer.


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

Unknown Primarch said:


> there is mention of a dark suited individual that was seen through the smoke helping take away the loyal primarchs that had been wounded at DSM. it is speculated that this was omegon as he was the wearer of a black power armour. hopefully this turns out to be true as it would make the AL fluff more interesting than them simply turning to chaos.


I actually hope that the dark figure was Cypher, the Fallen Angel. He is rumored to have been the "voice of the emperor" in the last GW major campaign, and his intentions are quite unclear. He is the only special character I can think of that could be used in both Chaos and Imperial armies!


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Unknown Primarch said:


> there is mention of a dark suited individual that was seen through the smoke helping take away the loyal primarchs that had been wounded at DSM. it is speculated that this was omegon as he was the wearer of a black power armour. hopefully this turns out to be true as it would make the AL fluff more interesting than them simply turning to chaos.



Ok, but _where _is it mentioned?


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

its mentioned in fulgrim but i havent got the book here to find the exact page, it will be when the loyalist have nearly been defeated and around the time fulgrim and ferrus mannus have their fight. if you have the book check it out.


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## Fluff'Ead (Aug 22, 2007)

There is a passage that describes a a band of Raven Guard led by a "black-armoured captain" fighting their way through some Emperor's Children in order to bring their wounded Primarch to a Thunderhawk.

Unless it's on another page this doesn't really sound like Omegon to me.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

yeah thats the passage, it is specualtion like i said but would make some great future fluff if alpharius is leading the traitors and omegon is on a secret mission to save as many loyalist as possible. it might just be coincidence but to outline the guy is wearing black armour then state in legion omegon wore black armour too seems like they may be setting things up for future novels.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I'll check it when I get home, but a black armoured captain leading Raven Guard Marines to me would say that, not unreasonably IMO, he was a Raven Guard captain. Good piece of conspiracy theory though if you want to read it that way.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

yeah i agree, i think that its quite common knowledge about this dark armoured marine possibly being omegon, especially after legion so no doubt GW will jump on it and expand it even if it wasnt intensional.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

Yeah, sounds more like a raven guard captain to me. But, as alpha legion is well known to use all means necessary to accomplish a mission, it wouldn't be surprising to find out that Omegon was just wearing a suit of raven guard armor.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

to be honest it just sounds like what Fluff'Ead and Khorne's Fist have already said- a Raven Guard Captain.

Unknown Primarch- how is it common knowledge about it possibly being Omegon? Unless you're simply referring to the people who've been reading this thread? 
Saving the Primarchs/Marines of the other Legions would seem to be counter-productive to the Alpha Legion's general aims.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

what you talking about, it is common knowledge people think it could be omegon. i read it a fair few time on here and other places too. 

how do you come to conclusion that it is counter productive to AL aims, for all we know they could have other aims since first seeing the acuity and could be trying for a third path. after all they have been tought to disbelieve the alien and could have found knowledge to change them from the path set out by the cabal. 
john grammaticus could have helped them down a different or told them the cabal is not to be trusted. AL as been known to help out the imperium so they could have done it at the dropsite massacre or alpharius could have actually turned to chaos and omegon is trying to right things in favour of the imperium.
one thing we do know is things are not straight forward with the Alpha Legion so dont presume them to be chaos worshippers but then again dont rules it out.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> to be honest it just sounds like what Fluff'Ead and Khorne's Fist have already said- a Raven Guard Captain.
> 
> Unknown Primarch- how is it common knowledge about it possibly being Omegon? Unless you're simply referring to the people who've been reading this thread?
> Saving the Primarchs/Marines of the other Legions would seem to be counter-productive to the Alpha Legion's general aims.


Wouldn't be counter-productive if the theory that the alpha legion became split as well holds true. It's all speculation really.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Unknown Primarch said:


> alpharius could have actually turned to chaos and omegon is trying to right things in favour of the imperium.


Whilst this could be a possibility, I really can't see them going their seperate ways. They seem too closely bonded. When it finally is revealed in Legion that there are twin Primarchs, they repeatedly reinforce the point that they are not so much twins, as two parts of the same person. While you can argue that this could be said of twins in general, they seem to almost be the same soul split between two bodies.

That was just my impression anyway.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Thats why I said 'general' aims- I'm sure of all the Legions they had plans within plans within plans but if your going to backup your argument with the book Legion then their 'general' aim would seem to be the destruction of chaos by almost paradoxically destroying the Emperor. So the rescuing of Primarchs and Marines from a trap that is often credited to Alpharius would SEEM to be counter-productive.

Instead the most obvious conclusion as to who the Black-armoured Captain was, is that he was simply a RG Captain.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

even if it was a RG Captain then there is a high chance that GW have caught on to the speculation and will further the plot of the alpha legion by having this dark figure be omegon as its quite a good bit of fluff and if it turns out it was him it will make what ever AL are up to even more of a twisted tale.


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## Fluff'Ead (Aug 22, 2007)

Dunno, a split Legion would ruin the "one body, one mind" mentality they had ever since their earliest fluff incarnation.


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

the alpha legion was and is very good at what it puts its mind too. i believe that something did happen within the ranks of the legion because it seems as though all the stuff they have done so far has been kind of half arsed to me. that being said during the heresy i wouldnt find it hard to believe that alpharius and omegon had argued over what actions should be taken, when i read the book they seemed to have different personalities, you could see this in how they react to the revelation or whatever it is called. omegon rages against it and turns away while alpharius is dumbfounded and falls to his knees. i believe they found their mission a little hard to swallow during the heresy and in so doing they didnt really do much besides holding up the white scars and space wolves after that they sort of fall off the map. im guessing that some of their legion had turned, they had to have i mean come on how couldnt some of them turn to chaos, but the rest start cults, they dont join them, and cause mayhem in the imperium. dont know where i was going with that so yea.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

yeah i know where you going with this and i agree. i think once they start surrounding themselves with chaos its bound to have had a effect on them, be it some or all.
i had the same idea about the primarchs as they are the same soul in two bodies so maybe they dont have the same traits but share some of each what they would have had in one body. so maybe one was more likely to turn and the other would stay totally loyal. it would explain the variation in the legions activities.


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## Ahriman's Loanshark (Jan 25, 2011)

Whatever the original intentions of the Alpha Legion, it likely comes down to what warband you're in to determine loyalty in the 41st Millenium. Some groups of Legionnairres might still hold true to Alpharius's wishes, but it's likely that plenty of groups have joined chaos completely, probably a 50/50 split. My reasoning for expecting at least half of the Legion to be true chaos servants is that as they are self-contained and scattered by nature, positioned all across the galaxy in small bands, they don't have a central command, so there really is no one at the wheel saying what the goal really is. And it probably doesn't matter anyway, as both Loyal and Chaotic warbands will use the same tactics to fight the same foe; the Imperium.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Notice that there Primarchs aren't daemon princes and yes plural I don't think either one is dead.


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## DeathGuardGarro (Nov 8, 2010)

So in Legion, which one is the Primarch. I am reading legion now, and I am confused as to which one is the primarch.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

DeathGuardGarro said:


> So in Legion, which one is the Primarch. I am reading legion now, and I am confused as to which one is the primarch.


It's best to just finish the book and come to your own conclusions.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

aboytervigon said:


> Notice that there Primarchs aren't daemon princes and yes plural I don't think either one is dead.


How do you know they aren't deamon princes? We know literally nothing about their current status


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## Tarvitz210300 (Jan 27, 2011)

i dont think GW are likely to change it to much it would one unbalance the spectrum half evil half good also they could do much more interesting thing the second primarch for example anyway this is my view wait also most the legions did not split cleanly there were most that agreed some that did not


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Fluff'Ead said:


> Dunno, a split Legion would ruin the "one body, one mind" mentality they had ever since their earliest fluff incarnation.


Thats already been ruined since Dawn of war-games (Chaotic Khorne crazy followers, even though people dont consider them canon) but then we also have Hunt for Voldorious, which i havent heard much reviews about, but I found it pretty decent with Alpha Legion as the... I never never if its supposed to be called atagonist or protagonist. :biggrin:


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

I don't know too much about the AL (I'm beggining Legion now)
Are they still active? Meaning, have they done anything recently or are they just unknown about their activites?


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Here's a thought.

Alpharius and Omegon being twins is almost certainly something that never occurred to the Ultramarines. The idea of "Alpharius" dying to Guilliman is something cast in doubt by the Ultramarines themselves, perhaps due to the fact that the Alpha Legionnaires were able to fight their way out in absence of their leader.

But what if Alpharius or Omegon (not both) DID die to Guilliman? Not only would the surviving twin be capable of leading his men out, but the death of one could shed light as to why the Legion turned to Chaos (and there's ample evidence of this in the Codices and other sources). One Primarch in two bodies. One soul in two bodies. But if one of the two bodies dies? What does it do the other, and to the soul as a whole? Might this have been what led to Alpha Legion's downfall and corruption?


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

Did the Emperor know that there were twins?


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Probably, I would think.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

BloodAngelZeros said:


> Lastly, Alpharius even says at the end that he will always fight for the Emperor and that he would always fight for the Emperor's best interest. Am I missing some fluff some where that would suggest otherwise?


Alpharius was lying 



or was he


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

out of all the original legions so little was known about the Alpha Leigon at the time of the first publishing of Legion backgrounds and so on and it seemed for GW to be content that way, have one leigon that noone can honestly know what they are about and then out comes leigon and lo and behold not only are they the 40k equivelant of MI5, MI6,CIA,KGB,Mossad..(take your pick) but they are lead by twins, 
The only leigon that remained whole is the Word Bearers and the others have split into war bands....or so we are told. Can that be true of the Alpha Leigon? have they split into warbands or is iit how they want it to appear? at the end of it all nothng with the Alpha Leigon is as clear cut as it is with the other legions in darkness. 
It is acceptable to assume that the Alpha Leigon have fallen into darkness now but then it is also acceptable to assume that this is all a ruse..a part of some big plan that no one yet knows about and that is the beauty of the Alpha Leigon....you just never know what side of the fence they wil be sitting on,


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Androxine Vortex said:


> I don't know too much about the AL (I'm beggining Legion now)
> Are they still active? Meaning, have they done anything recently or are they just unknown about their activites?


As recently as the 13th Black Crusade, Imperial logs note that they were 20+ unconfirmed reports of Alpha Legion activity during the war. 



Androxine Vortex said:


> Did the Emperor know that there were twins?


_A Thousand Sons_ subtly suggests that he does. Although Alpharius seemed to be under the impression that no one outside of the Legion was aware.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

Could that be down to continuity error or writer error? i would have thought that the emperor would be aware that he had twins in the family, unless it happened after the scouring


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

gothik said:


> Could that be down to continuity error or writer error? i would have thought that the emperor would be aware that he had twins in the family, unless it happened after the scouring


Well we don't know if forging twin-Primarchs was intentional on the Emperor's part or not. We know they were as two bodies within their capsule during the scattering at some point (_The First Heretic_), but whether this was as I said the Emperor's intention, or whether it was down to warp mutation is unknown.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> Here's a thought.
> 
> Alpharius and Omegon being twins is almost certainly something that never occurred to the Ultramarines. The idea of "Alpharius" dying to Guilliman is something cast in doubt by the Ultramarines themselves, perhaps due to the fact that the Alpha Legionnaires were able to fight their way out in absence of their leader.
> 
> But what if Alpharius or Omegon (not both) DID die to Guilliman? Not only would the surviving twin be capable of leading his men out, but the death of one could shed light as to why the Legion turned to Chaos (and there's ample evidence of this in the Codices and other sources). One Primarch in two bodies. One soul in two bodies. But if one of the two bodies dies? What does it do the other, and to the soul as a whole? Might this have been what led to Alpha Legion's downfall and corruption?


That is an interesting point of view, if you kill one, what will happen to the other?  I hope there will be more novels about the Alpha Legion, there will be more about them during the HH Ive read here at least.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

The Emperor would have to be a pretty daft scientist to not notice _two_ bodies in one of the tubes...

Also, I have to say this. I don't like the meme that likens the Alpha Legion to every covert agency out there. Yes, the Alpha Legionnaires use covert tactics to fight their wars. Yes, they favor secrecy. But the idea that, as a fighting force, they are some amalgam of the CIA, KGB, Mossad, etc., is, frankly, an inaccurate one. Those agencies are _not_ armies. What fighting forces they do possess are not capable of fighting a war. They know how to incorporate covert actions within a conflict waged by actual armies, but that's where the topic (by and large) ends for them.

The Alpha Legion are so much more than that. Their Index Astartes paints a nice picture of them. The best comparison is to liken the Alpha Legion and their relationship to the Imperial Army during the Great Crusade to the US Military... if the Special Operations Command (meaning, Green Berets, SEALs, etc.) were given overall command of their theatre of operations... and their officers were as skilled at waging conventional warfare as they were at waging unconventional warfare.

And that's a whole different animal than "the Alpha Legion are [insert intelligence agency]!" :grin:


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I'm still unsure on whether the Emperor knew they were twins. Im undecided on whether the Emperor meant it to be that way or whether it happened as a mutation of sorts when they were scattered through the warp. I'm honestly leaning more towards the latter because of what the cabal said about one soul in two bodies. It suggests they aren't twins as such, but like the Cabal say, one primarch split between two bodies. The primarchs were said to be immensly complicated enough as it was, never mind the Emperor trying to create two bodies for one sould. So yeah i'm more inclinded to just them knowing. But hell, we'll probably never find out.


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

Secrets and lies. That's how I would describe the Alpha Legion, a Legion of secrets and lies. Every time they reveal a little bit of truth, it only creates more questions. Hell, the one Inquisitor that has uncovered the most of their history and current activities is considered at best, dupe of the Alpha Legion and their manipulations, and at worst, tainted by the Alpha Legion and a traitor.

Are they just a collection of fractured warbands or is there a central command behind most of these various groups? Did Alpharius or Omegon die at Guilliman's hands or was it just one of the doppelgangers they had? Are they as a whole corrupt or truly loyal or somewhere in between?

We may never know what they are, but you know what, I wouldn't have it any other way. That's what makes the Alpha Legion so interesting. The secrets and lies.

Hydra Dominatus!


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Angel of Blood,

I always lean toward the theme of "The Emperor: godlike psyker, the most powerful human, and the most brilliant mind born of our race... but not omnipotent and not omniscient."

As such, I believe he knew about the twins... but that they were either a result of unforeseen circumstances during his experiments, or an imperfect result of a test cycle at getting twice your bang for your buck. That is, the Emperor seeing if he could crank out multiple Primarchs in a single "gestation" period. There are indications, after all, that the twenty Primarchs were not necessarily meant to be the *only* Primarchs. As such, Alpharius might have simultaneously served as the closing of one cycle and the beginning of another.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> The Emperor would have to be a pretty daft scientist to not notice _two_ bodies in one of the tubes...
> 
> Also, I have to say this. I don't like the meme that likens the Alpha Legion to every covert agency out there. Yes, the Alpha Legionnaires use covert tactics to fight their wars. Yes, they favor secrecy. But the idea that, as a fighting force, they are some amalgam of the CIA, KGB, Mossad, etc., is, frankly, an inaccurate one. Those agencies are _not_ armies. What fighting forces they do possess are not capable of fighting a war. They know how to incorporate covert actions within a conflict waged by actual armies, but that's where the topic (by and large) ends for them.
> 
> ...


maybe i didn't voice my thoughts better, when i quoted that i meant in terms of thier intelligence operations and intelligence gathering techniques my apologiesk:


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

@phoebus. can you comment more on this idea of maybe more primarchs and where this idea has been speculated on?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Fair enough. Until we get any more info though i'm still gonna lean in the other direction. Would quite like to see another Alpha Legion book set at their beggining, to see how Alpharius and Omegon grew up and came to be like they were, although that of course would defeat the point of them so it isn't going to happen ^^


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Unknown Primarch,

If I recall correctly, that idea is stated in one of the older publications--the Codex Imperialis, I believe. I don't have it in front of me, but perhaps someone else can comment on this?

Angel of Blood, 

RE: which direction to lean... As is your prerogative, of course.


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