# WE ARE RETURNED! But to what end?



## Helsreach (Jun 2, 2010)

What will become of the black legion, will Abbadon be kicked out as incompitent, will they ever kill the Imperium or will they fade out of the lime light after numerous defeats before someone else takes over?

Whats your opinion and why?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Abaddon will be made a DP and as such do what other big DPs do (I'm looking at you, Mortarion); sit back and watch the little people go about their business. He will no longer need to lead from the front. The Black Crusades will stop, but every so often he may lead a kind os super-crusade, which will be far better than the Black Crusades and it will take a thousand Grey Knights to stop him.

Midnight


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## genesis108 (Jul 29, 2009)

Or Abaddon will get killed by a sniper rifle shot from some pathetic scout and the Imperium will laugh while the forces of chaos cry in their Khorne Flakes..


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

read the posting guidelines, it says something about not typing in all caps. no, abby will keep going, launching black crusades and making GW more money, maybe in later editions, the black legion will become more and more powerful until they turn into Ultramarines, because what could be better than Ultramarines. ultramarines have to be the best, it is the law of the 40k universe:so_happy:


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

I don't know why Abaddon would be kicked out as incompetent when he's quite the opposite- he's forged the Black Legion into the most powerful and numerous Traitor Legion he's launched numerous successful crusades against the Imperium and he's turned down the ascension to daemonhood more than once because it would interfere with his aims.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Some believe that Abaddon has turned down Daemonhood because he doesn't believe he deserves it until the False Emperor is dead and Terra is burning.

Although the term success of the Black Crusades can be interpreted. They are devastating and damage the Imperium each time but they have never achieved their main goal in the crusades. Death to the False Emperor.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Helsreach said:


> will Abbadon be kicked out as incompitent


Although there are plots to supplant Abaddon as Warmaster of Chaos, he regardless remains the most fearful and dominant Chaos Warlord by far. He is also still favoured by the Chaos Gods. So generally speaking, hes not going anywhere.



Helsreach said:


> will they ever kill the Imperium or will they fade out of the lime light after numerous defeats before someone else takes over?


The Black Legion is the single-most powerful and dominant Chaos Legion by far (outnumbering the XVII Legion (and therefore likely all other Legions) by over 10:1). The Black Legion as a loose coalition of warbands collectively owes allegience to Abaddon the Despoiler, there is no challenging his authority as long as he retains the favour of the Chaos Gods and remains in command of the Black Legion.


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## Shield of Faith (Dec 18, 2009)

Abaddon will unleash 8347845th Black Crusade, then fail again.


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

Abaddon bears the Mark of Chaos Ascendant, symbolizing the favor he has with all four Chaos Gods. Giving him the combined Marks of all four Gods. And also grants immunity from instant death in TT, representing that Chaos Gods have a plan for Abaddon.



Lord of the Night said:


> Some believe that Abaddon has turned down Daemonhood because he doesn't believe he deserves it until the False Emperor is dead and Terra is burning.
> 
> Although the term success of the Black Crusades can be interpreted. They are devastating and damage the Imperium each time but they have never achieved their main goal in the crusades. Death to the False Emperor.


True, but you're taking a rather narrow look at the Black Crusades. The 13th ended actually with a minor Chaos victory, with Abaddon achieving a foothold on Cadia. The 1st Crusade was pushed back by the Imperium, but at great cost, and not before the Chaos forces caused massive to the Imperium and Abaddon gained his daemonsword.

Every Black Crusade, while having been pushed back in the end, has caused terrible damage to the Imperium, killing countless billions, destroying whole worlds, spreading corruption, weakening the Imperium, Chaos champions achieving individual glories, and feeding the Chaos Gods. When a Black Crusade happens, the Imperium diverts large amounts of manpower to hold it back, weakening their forces in other parts of the galaxy. A prime example of this is the 13th Black Crusade, as it went on, in the Eastern Fringe, the Tau Empire was able to further expand into Imperial space, taking more worlds from the Imperium.

The Black Crusades may end with the Imperium pushing them back, but every time, Abaddon comes back, having learned from his mistakes and ready to attack Imperium, which is already facing numerous enemies on numerous fronts. Abaddon knows that eventually, the Imperium will become too stretched out from all of these threats they face and he will overwhelm Cadia.

And the Black Legion are the Ultrasmurfs of Chaos.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

You know, its funny that no one mention that Abbaddon has NOT led each Black Crusades. He led most of them. Hell I belive that ultimate badass DP of Khorn, Doombreed, led 1 or 2 himself. So Abbaddon has not failed each crusade, the ones he leads have gathered this, taken that. For the most part he gaining what he needs whether its Geenseed from IW like in Storm of Iron, or using the Word Bearers with the Nexus to his ends. Hes always plotting and using every Legion and their resource to feed the Chaos Gods and (Painfully for us CSM Players) slowly wear the Imperium down. 

Now as a CSM Fan I admit everything I said feels like GW BS. This asshole been trying to bring down the Emperium to its knees with all 9 Legions at his bekon call, all four Chaos Powers Daemons at his back, Dark Adeptus in the Soul Forge producing warp mech, and 10,000 YEARS of planning he only manages a foot hold? Get the fuck outa here. :laugh:


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> You know, its funny that no one mention that Abbaddon has NOT led each Black Crusades. He led most of them. Hell I belive that ultimate badass DP of Khorn, Doombreed, led 1 or 2 himself. So Abbaddon has not failed each crusade, the ones he leads have gathered this, taken that. For the most part he gaining what he needs whether its Geenseed from IW like in Storm of Iron, or using the Word Bearers with the Nexus to his ends. Hes always plotting and using every Legion and their resource to feed the Chaos Gods and (Painfully for us CSM Players) slowly wear the Imperium down.
> 
> Now as a CSM Fan I admit everything I said feels like GW BS. This asshole been trying to bring down the Emperium to its knees with all 9 Legions at his bekon call, all four Chaos Powers Daemons at his back, Dark Adeptus in the Soul Forge producing warp mech, and 10,000 YEARS of planning he only manages a foot hold? Get the fuck outa here. :laugh:


First off, Abaddon has led the 13 largest Black Crusades, but there have been other, smaller Black Crusades led by other Chaos Champions. The Black Crusades known as the 1st Black Crusade, the 2nd Black Crusade through to the 13th, have all been Abaddon's, the rest have been other major, large scale Chaos offenses that are classified as Black Crusades, including Doombreed's one. Second, it's been 10,000 years for the Imperium, we don't know how much time has passed for Abaddon in the EoT.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Chaos will sing a non-aggression pact with the imperium (after the emperor ascends to warp-god hood making the 5th chaos god) and the black crusades will continue, as a "getting to know each other" annual picnic event on cadia.

Abbadon will sit down with Creed, Calgar and others with a beer in one hand and a cheese burger in the other and reminice about past battles and brag about recent victories against the Xenos.

Failing that eventually the Chaos gods will tire of Abbadon and his lack of Emperor killing and abandon Abbadon where he will be sniped by a ratling


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

lawrence96 said:


> Failing that eventually the Chaos gods will tire of Abbadon and his lack of Emperor killing


Presuming they want the Emperor dead...


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Even if they don't really- at the end of the day they're gonna get bored of the little man jumping up and down shouting "i'll get you Emporer, I'LL GET YOU!" and take their power back.


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

lawrence96 said:


> Even if they don't really- at the end of the day they're gonna get bored of the little man jumping up and down shouting "i'll get you Emporer, I'LL GET YOU!" and take their power back.


I don't know about that. Kharn's vocabulary has become limited to 'Skulls for the Skull Throne! Blood for the Blood God! Souls for the Soul Eater!' and my personal favorite, 'Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn!'


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Abaddon sits down with Creed...

Abaddon: 'Hmm, Ursarker old chap, this burger tastes mighty funny.'
Creed: 'Hmm, wonder why that could be, old bean.'
Abaddon: Wait, there's a... there's a... *oh my god there's a Baneblade in my Cheeseburger!*
*Earthshaker rounds shoot out of burger gibing Abaddon.
*Burger Store closed due to Tactical Genius*

Midnight


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## Ardias26 (Sep 26, 2008)

you seem to forget that time flows differently within the eye of terror. While a thousand or so years might pass in between each black crusade in the galaxy.Within the eye only about a century or so might have passed. So to abaddon each crusade could rly be seen by him as pre planned raids to weaken the imperium over a few centuries to him. Before finally dealing a crushing blow.


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## Helsreach (Jun 2, 2010)

Then again we don't know his motives, in soul hunter Talos remarks upon his numerous defeats and he questions him as to weather he knows what his true goals have been.

The Gods ain't thick and clearly he isn't either and has some big plan and their behind him. I mean he didn't get the respect of the traitor legions for nothing (no matter how grudging that respect may be). He did get that niffty sword of his though remember? And why else would champions flock to his cause? other than perhaps plot device, i.e. gather all chaos forces but under one incompetent leader so the threat of unity is there but not the strategic brilliance of Horus keeping the universe at a stalemate with no plot changes.

Then again he is also known for committing too much in one place too far from support and has a record for treachery that makes you wonder why anyone fights with him if he'll commit to much and then leave you to die.

Despite all the trechery and the ire held by other legions he has still earned their respect which shows he has more than his famed courage and martial prowess to his name.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Akatsuki13 said:


> First off, Abaddon has led the 13 largest Black Crusades, but there have been other, smaller Black Crusades led by other Chaos Champions. The Black Crusades known as the 1st Black Crusade, the 2nd Black Crusade through to the 13th, have all been Abaddon's, the rest have been other major, large scale Chaos offenses that are classified as Black Crusades, including Doombreed's one. Second, it's been 10,000 years for the Imperium, we don't know how much time has passed for Abaddon in the EoT.


No Im pretty sure Abbaddon has not lead all the 13 Black Crusades. He may always be behind them, but not personaly led them. A Black crusade is massive Chaos Incursion from the EoT. Sorry to let ya know, but Abbaddon isnt the only one capable of banding Legions or Warbands together. That wascaly Angron comes to mind.

Wheres CotE? He knows Chaos Fluff like Baron Spikey knows BL Novels.


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> No Im pretty sure Abbaddon has not lead all the 13 Black Crusades. He may always be behind them, but not personaly led them. A Black crusade is massive Chaos Incursion from the EoT. Sorry to let ya know, but Abbaddon isnt the only one capable of banding Legions or Warbands together. That wascaly Angron comes to mind.
> 
> Wheres CotE? He knows Chaos Fluff like Baron Spikey knows BL Novels.


All of the numbered Black Crusades were let by Abaddon personally, which is why they were numbered over the other Black Crusades. Because they were the largest, most terrible Black Crusades, led by the Arch-Heretic himself. As I said, there have been other Black Crusades, led by Chaos Champions, such as Doombreed's Black Crusade, but they were never numbered like Abaddon's Thirteen Black Crusades.

See for yourself at the Lexicanum: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Crusades


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> Wheres CotE? He knows Chaos Fluff like Baron Spikey knows BL Novels.


I believe _Akatsuki13_ is right on this one.  All the numbered crusades (1-13) have been personally led by Abaddon. But other Black Crusades (not included in 1-13) have occured under other Chaos Warlords/Daemon Princes - Doombreed for example.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> Abaddon: Wait, there's a... there's a... *oh my god there's a Baneblade in my Cheeseburger!*
> Midnight


That's gonna be one big cheeseburger!

As for Abbadons big plan- it don't mean shit to the chaos gods, he's just a intermission during the great game, a chance for them to rearm, recouperate, repair ect ect.

And the other CSM join him because they believe that the chaos gods have some sort of bigger plan for them all, they don't realise that they are just a distraction.


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## Helsreach (Jun 2, 2010)

Weather he lead all the black crusades does nothing to change the fact that he's known for suicidal bravery, going with his men on the most dangerous missions and coming back unharmed


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## Moggy3d (Jun 2, 2010)

tbh i never think that the black crusades will go far for two major reasons 

1. cadian plastics sell like cakes at a fat fighters convention and lines gws pockets

and 

2. it only takes a few well aimed head shots of a heavybolter to his face to send the biatch crying back into the eye kicking pink horrors as he goes !


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

Hmm. Correct me if I am wrong, but the 13th Black Crusade isn't technically over, is it? I mean, there's still fighting over Cadia? Or did I completely miss something there?

And, to those claiming Abaddon has failed.
I would like to point out the book Soul Hunter, where he tells Talos something along the lines of "Are you part of my Inner Circles, to know my motivations and goals?Who are you to claim wether or not I am victorious."

I mean, the 12th Black Crusade was solely to get his hands on a Blackstone Fortress.

Abaddon is by no means a failiure. The other traitor legions are just to naïve to realise that, as shown by the Night Lords in Soul Hunter.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Cruor99 said:


> I mean, the 12th Black Crusade was solely to get his hands on a Blackstone Fortress.
> 
> Abaddon is by no means a failiure. The other traitor legions are just to naïve to realise that, as shown by the Night Lords in Soul Hunter.


Or is he the supreme lord of "i meant to do that"? Kind of like the scooby and shaggy of 40k- he messes up but by some weird coincidence manages to capture the ghoul terrorising the chocolate factory:laugh::laugh:

After all if you're some big bad CSM are you going to admit that actually you failed but you got this fortress as a runner-up prize or are you going to claim that the fortress was your goal all along.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I believe _Akatsuki13_ is right on this one.  All the numbered crusades (1-13) have been personally led by Abaddon. But other Black Crusades (not included in 1-13) have occured under other Chaos Warlords/Daemon Princes - Doombreed for example.


Damn. :headbutt: Thats probaly why Im confuse.Damn you Doombreed, as if Khorn needs more badass followers.


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