# just how tough is Astartes power armour?



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm reading _Helsreach_ and Orks punch through marine power armour quite consistently with axes and spears

before reading _Helsreach_, I was aware that the Dawn of War intro had Orks chopping down marines, but I mostly discounted that as just a game cinematic 

on some forums, I've read claims that chain or power weapons are required to penetrate marine power armour, that regular blades simply won't do...but apparently a crude Ork blade will penetrate if driven home with enough force

I'm aware that when an Ork believes that a shoota is very shooty, the shoota, when wielded by the Ork, does more damage than it scientifically should 
perhaps when an Ork believes that a choppa is very "choppy", the choppa, when wielded by the Ork, does more damage than it scientifically should


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Orks are very, very strong though, purpose built for war and all that. If anyone's going to be able to drive a spear through power armour it's an ork. Were they getting through just the joints or all of it? One blow or repeated tries?

Power Armour is the best personal armour you can get, full stop (other than tactical dreadnaught). Bullets patter off and it takes concentrated lasgun fire to breach it. I don't see normal combat weapons being able to penetrate unless being wielded with a huge amount of force. The other strengths of power armour is that its hermetically sealed, can survive vacuum, monitors the bio signs of the occupant and can dispense drugs, and acts as a second skin rather than a cumbersome suit.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Yeah, I think Ork weapons are much stronger than they appear. Whether its Ork latent psychic power or whatever, I'm not sure.

One possible theory is that Astartes plate is very resistant to certain things (say, direct energy weapons, various types of armor piercing bullets and shells, explosions), but are somewhat lacking when hit by a sharp weapon. Much like how bullet proof vests are capable of resisting bullets with very high kinetic energy values, but not capable of stopping a knife. I'm not too keen on the actual science behind it, but certain materials are better at doing certain things due to strength, density, brittleness, ect.

Unlikely, since we see other melee weapons skid harmlessly off power armor, like chain swords, so, meh. Probably Orky tech and strength.

So how strong is power armor? Well, we know they're make Space Marines more durable than a typical Ork (as per the Caphas Cain series). They can survive within a plasma core for a little bit (From "Battle for the Abyss). From a quick glance at Wiki (I'm not means a physics or chemists) plasma tends to start around a few thousand degrees Celsius and then gets hotter from there. 

We know they can't survive falling from several hundred meters up, from "Battle for the Fang." 

Though it seems a MBT from around our technology can kill a pre-Heresy era Space Marine with a direct hit from its main gun from that one short story in "Tales of Heresy". How the marines die is not known--whether the shell penetrated the suit or just pulped the marine we don't know.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

I don't like how the Orks are as strong or almost as strong as a Space Marine.

Coupled with their numbers, it's simply unfair.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, the obvious answer is that the power armor plates are actually extremely tough. However, the joints, hoses, power cables, power pack, etc... are all much more fragile. A well placed choppa to the throat might not decapitate the marine, but could probably break their neck. Also, remember that a lot of injuries could be from impact/blunt trauma. A mace doesn't have to penetrate plate armor to kill or maim. It just knocks the sense out of you or jelly's your organs from sudden impact.

Space Marines can take a serious beating without dying. But, that doesn't mean that they are not casualties. I would say that for every 10 Space Marine casualties in a fight, only about 2-3 of them die from their wounds, if evacuated or treated.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> I don't like how the Orks are as strong or almost as strong as a Space Marine.
> 
> Coupled with their numbers, it's simply unfair.


Well, it's a matter of brain versus brawn. You don't have to fight all of them and you only really have to take out the top to have everything topple over.

Plus that's what the Imperial Guard is for .


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

And orks almost have to be nobz to be as strong as space marines.

The problem with power armour and space marine durability, is that every source varies.
You've got the DOW games intro's, pew pew Aaargh. Nothing at all.

And in other sources, they can laugh at the multitude of enemies trying to touch him, and laugh in their faces at their puny attempts, space marine, the game. And various books.

Let's say it like this, an ork with a spear or choppa wouldn't really penetrate power armour, and a heavy hit would probably lodge the weapon stuck into the armour, they could roughen it up a fair bit, but unless hitting the weak spots, the marine shouldn't die unless it's a rather large ork.

I think i have that book, don't remember much from it though.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Also remember that all a casualty means on the table is the model can no longer fight. It can mean anything from being knocked unconscious to having you power plant ripped from your armor. I like to imagine that most marine casualties are merely the armor being crippled by servos being ruined or cable/power plants being destroyed. Also the 33% chance to get through SN arnor represents weak points getting hit or vital components being destroyed.

So no most orcs can't hope to out and out penetrate space marine armor hence why they still have to roll against sm armor values.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

well in _Helsreach_, when a large number of Orks swarm a single marine, drag him down, and land a flurry of blows, the Orks do intentionally go for the weak spots in the armour (mostly joints and neck I think) 

but I was thinking of when an Ork got behind a marine and impaled him on a spear...is the back armour weak? should be as strong as the front
an Ork also chops into a marine's abdomen (severely hurting the marine) 

one of the marines remarks to himself about how strong the Orks must be to penetrate Astartes war plate 

so either Orks are just incredibly strong,
Ork blades cause damage as if they were exceptionally sharp because Orks believe they're exceptionally sharp,
or both


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## doofyoofy (Mar 8, 2011)

Several of the parts where it goes into detail of marines dying that i can recall in helsreach it was waekpoints in the armor, ie, the throat in the case of the black templar champion at the end. Also in most of the parts where it describes marines dying its because they are literally surrounded by orks all wailing on the marine as hard as they can. 
Orks are super duper strong, most orks are the equal of a marine in terms of brute strength, this is jsut the vibe i get from most of the Bl books. 
So in conclusion, orks are super duper strong and there weapons are decently sharp. this combined with massive numbers in the book helsreach allows them to kill the space marines.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

It's one of those propaganda vs reality (or rather fiction in this case thing). The Imperium says it's the best thing ever wheras in reality it will not stop a stone thrown by a child a full 1/3 of the time.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> in reality it will not stop a stone thrown by a child a full 1/3 of the time.


lolwut?

My sarcasm detector has been broken for quite some time now so not sure if serious.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Reminds me of Return of the Jedi. What's the point of stormtroopers wearinng all that shiny white plate, if regular stones and arrows thrown by midget carebears can take them out?

I was so pissed at the movie theater when I watched that movie for the first time. The storm troopers should've been able to wholesale slaughter the ewoks.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> I don't like how the Orks are as strong or almost as strong as a Space Marine.
> 
> Coupled with their numbers, it's simply unfair.


Do to the fact that they spend more time killing each other than SMs it kinda evens out.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> lolwut?
> 
> My sarcasm detector has been broken for quite some time now so not sure if serious.


A child with a unsanitary stone will kill a Space Marine 16% of the time, fact.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

I was always under the impression that orks were stronger than Space marines But the space marines win is because they have superior training, which is why only orks that fought for a long time can beat them.

In terms of strength I've heard they can take a few gauss hits before succumbing.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> I was always under the impression that orks were stronger than Space marines


Wrong, an Astartes warrior is stronger than a regular Ork.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

on a related note, anyone have any idea what type of metal is used in the construction of Ork blades

regular iron?


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> on a related note, anyone have any idea what type of metal is used in the construction of Ork blades
> 
> regular iron?


Whatever the heck they can find. Imperial Baneblade plates? Yea. Tau drop ship parts? Yea.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

Plus, that book is based on armaggedon, correct?

The orks of armaggedon have found a sacred place for war, orks go there because it's the best fight there is.

The orks who get there should be tougher and larger than your average boy.
Although normal ork impaling a marine? NAh, bull.

Author wanted drama, forgot it was about marines.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Klomster said:


> The orks who get there should be tougher and larger than your average boy.
> Although normal ork impaling a marine? NAh, bull.
> 
> Author wanted drama, forgot it was about marines.


Nope, not bull at all, that is what happened in canon fiction, thus that is what happens. Orks can impale Marines with rusty spoons.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

I would not believe spoons, only eversors use spoons in battle.

Source. Codex assassins, eversor flavor short story. His poisons and other weapons run out (how he runs out of a powersword still eludes me) and he has to "improvise" the death of over 300 people, all ages.
He also wields plates according to the story.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Doelago said:


> Whatever the heck they can find. Imperial Baneblade plates? Yea. Tau drop ship parts? Yea.


aluminum...yeah? copper...yeah?


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## stalarious (Aug 25, 2011)

Well in the book blood angels they are facing feral orks and the spears do nothing to them but the Tyranids later in that book tear them up like paper dolls, So.... This is a hord debate to get effectively because of the variation on authors IMO.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> aluminum...yeah? copper...yeah?


WTF are you talking about neither are made of aluminum or copper


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Pretty sure some bane blade variants could be made from copper and aluminum alloy.


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