# Loken



## primarch-angron (Mar 12, 2009)

In the third HH book, Loken get traped under a crushed building then a orbital bombardmet almost hits him, the book then says " lLoken then saw nothing". My quetstion is this did he survive or not?


----------



## kaled (Jun 24, 2008)

His fanclub seem to think he survived, but it seems highly unlikely.


----------



## Alias2003 (Feb 7, 2008)

I think the author's left it open that he could come back or he died. Probably depends on where they want to take the story. In response to your direct question tho. I don't think anyone is 100% sure.


----------



## CaptainLoken (May 13, 2009)

Yeah would be good if he serves as he was a really good character, but i doubt he would survive that.......................


----------



## TrentLanthier (Apr 28, 2008)

I am pretty sure I read one of the authors say something about short stories involving Loken... now before or after that point in time I have no idea... damn wish I remembered where I read that... I want to say BoLS


----------



## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

A Friend of mine seems to think there is another novel with him in, written before the HH series. No idea if that is true or not though. I'd like him to have survived however, he is my favourite Marine character ever. 

Reaper


----------



## Exitus_10 (Jul 14, 2008)

TrentLanthier said:


> I am pretty sure I read one of the authors say something about short stories involving Loken... now before or after that point in time I have no idea... damn wish I remembered where I read that... I want to say BoLS


It was on Bell of lost souls and Dan Abnett specifically said "...Characters LIKE Loken maybe seen in the future..." Like is the main word here as in characters like him not him specifically. It has been established that there is no way that pesky Luna Wolves would survive a Titan stepping on it. And I am sure Abaddon is competent enough to make sure there is enough damage done to him that not even his sus-an membrane would be able to support him into a blissful coma and recovery.


----------



## zas240 (Apr 3, 2009)

damm I always hoped he had survived. He was the first marine i ever thought had a character


----------



## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

i supremely doubt he would have survived. its been a while since ive read the book, but wasnt he already like having massive blood loss before the boulder even fell on him?


----------



## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

when did a titan step on him? That building might of knocked him out, but if an orbital bombardment didn't hit dead on top of him he probly would have survived. Still, even if he did survive the bomb attack how would he get off the planet/hide from the traitors? That would be pretty bloddy hard, even for a SM


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

The titan didn't actually step on him, it stepped on the building and the debris crushed the mortally wounded Loken. Remember he already had his super strengthened rib-cage/bone shield shattered, and when the building crushed him it did more damage.

In the last entry we have of Loken, it specifically mentions that life was leaving his body, that he was going to die soon. When the orbital bombardment starts, it never misses him, just before the last entry kicks out it mentions that the flames from the bombardment were reaching the building he was under.

Loken was a decent character, but he was badly wounded, trapped underneath a building, and no one was around to help him. People seem to want to think he survived, but theres just no way that could be possible when you put it all together.


----------



## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

there is always a possiblity. even if it is 1:1million there is still a chance. but if he did survive, get off the alive, what would he do then. He'd probly be stuck with whatever he escaped on, so maybe he'd go to another planet or head for Terra or something. Even if he did survive, i doubt he would be alive 10,000 years later and even if he was he wouldn't be going out saying "i'm Loken, captain of Luna Wolves! i am part of the Imperium!" The inquisition would kill him the moment he revealed himself. So if he is still alive, he's not active in 40k


----------



## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

Hell... They could always say he was saved by the grace of the Emperor... or the other "maybe" survivors, like that dreadnought, could have dug him out...


----------



## Lord of Rebirth (Jun 7, 2008)

He was SEVERELY wounded and under not much rubble and could see up into the sky when the traitor fleet systematically bombarded ALL of the city. I'd say he would be dead if an orbital shell could ever kill a marine.


----------



## Exitus_10 (Jul 14, 2008)

He's dead, it is established by the fact of the complete mortality which was inherent in his final moments, I would like to retract the statement of him being crushed by the titan (Thats how it seemed to me while reading). But still he is dead, there is no way, no way in hell that a character like Loken would ever come back, and if some BL author does it then I will burn all the Bl books I own because the event of his return would be utterly brain-shattering and all hope for the future of BL Books are gone. Loken was a great character but due to the setting of the grim darkness of the uncertain future he had to die, he had atleast a century of battle to his name and him to die amidst the flaming ruins of the heresy is a good way to go for a righteous and brave SM loyal to the Emps, he was the Martyr of the first three books in contrast with the 'rebirth' of Euphrati Keeler as a saint. Fi you catch my drift.
He is dead that's it, wanted to clear that before people start claiming that Loken is in fact the Emperor like in the other forums where this question was asked.


----------



## Alias2003 (Feb 7, 2008)

Exitus_10 said:


> Like is the main word here as in characters like him not him specifically. It has been established that there is no way that pesky Luna Wolves would survive a Titan stepping on it. .


The titan only crushed the building, but it was the building itself that fell on Loken. 

Just want to clarify


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Thanks for reading the other posts Alias; especially since the part of Exitus_10's first post you quoted was taken back in the post right above yur own.


----------



## CaptainLoken (May 13, 2009)

Guys he is a Space Marine able to take punishment beyond normal human beings, so there is a chance not matter how small. 

Though with all that happened it does not seem likely it will depend on the author that has the next few HH books set in the siege and the after marth. of it all. 

As do they look for survivors? 

We will have to wait and see to find out at the end of the day.


----------



## Illamon (May 18, 2009)

yes... but he is no normal space marine, he is the elite of space marines. and if anyone can do it its loken.... come on buddy you can do it.


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

For the love of.....

Its not about if he's a superhuman or not, in Lokens final part in Galaxy in Flames he himself acknowledges that he is very close to death before the bombardment starts. He's mortally wounded at that point, with multiple parts of his body crushed, his ribs/chest bone shattered and bone cutting into his organs, and coughing up blood that his body can't stop.

Then the city gets hit by the bombardment, and the only known survivor from that was encased inside a dreadnought. If you honestly believe that Loken survived *all* of that then keep in mind that everyone thinks he is dead, has no idea where he is, has to find him in an *entire* city of rubble, keep him alive with zero supplies, and wait months for some form of aid offworld, which I might add will not come because everyone believes that there is no one left on Istvaan.

He's super tough, he's super elite, he's superhuman, have faith in him; thats generally the logic of those who believe he is alive, constantly looking away from all the facts that prove he is very likely dead. (Some whop see this post will only listen to the very likely part and go on to say that there is still a chance despite everything pointed out.) Get it through your heads, he's dead and not coming back. If we ever do get more stories about him, it would have to be before the events of the first three books.


----------



## Illamon (May 18, 2009)

of course hes dead, no reason to go into a giant speel. but if people like him and just want to have hope in a story they really like where it is possible that the warp could suck him up and spit him out later on because its the warp let everyone that wants to believe believe. why not?


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Illamon, that would be because the whole point of this thread revolves around the question of whether or not he survived.



primarch-angron said:


> My quetstion is this did he survive or not?


Its not about if people believe one way or the other, the question is along the lines of yes or no.


----------



## jack (Oct 30, 2008)

To be brutally honest, i think its just wishful thinking when people think he is gonna survive.
Yes, he was a good character but killing him off was neccesary to make it realistic. If he had survived it would have ruined the book for me, even though part of me wanted to see him live.
I dont think any of that made sense.
Anyway,
No.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

The HH books are like the movie Titanic, you know how it's going to end and it won't be good (what with old Sealion Dying warbling away her heart will go on the bloody film did too....)
Anyway, back to the point, Loken is dead. He was the heroic, doomed martyr he was always going to die, how could it have been any other way?
Sure, as a character, he was cool. But the only way he could have survived as the hero he was was to stop Horus, which would have sort of put a big dent in the whole 40k mythology. 
The "good"* guys are doomed to failure in the series, they got their arses handed to them during the Heresy.


* there are no real good guys in 40k


----------



## inqusitor_me (Jan 27, 2008)

ok guy tell us where it says he is dead.
im not trying to say he isnt dead just its one of those he might not/be momants wich make intresting to see what happons.


edit:He was the best charater untill mcneill got his grubby mits on him (should of left it to abnett to do the first few books imho)


----------



## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm having flashbacks to IMDb arguments over whether Butch Cassidy and Sundance survived the end of their movie.

It seems to me that thinking that Loken is still alive is to have misread his entire character arc and what he represented within the larger narrative of the series. The steadfast loyal martyr isn't worth much thematically if he survives his martyrdom.

Which is, incidentally, one thing that always seemed odd to me about the Gospel, but that is neither here nor there.


----------



## Epic Fail (Jun 23, 2008)

The character Loken was made to die, like Gul Torgo says it is his purpose in the story and it makes you feel the betrayal of Horus more keenly.

I frankly would be disappointed if he popped up in the final novel with some poorly strung together excuse and a die hard style ending.


----------



## Exitus_10 (Jul 14, 2008)

Epic Fail said:


> I frankly would be disappointed if he popped up in the final novel with some poorly strung together excuse and a die hard style ending.


lol. I can just see Loken riding a tank into horus's battlebarge in space and renting a hole big enough for the Emps to get in and for Loken to give the final death blow to horus and walk away holding hands with the Emps and kissing in the doorway.....oh wait:stop:

That never happened, neither did Loken survive, hes dead, logic states his death is inevitable. Him being alive is just like the scenario above...impossible. Again for those who refuse to let him rest in peace or pieces or whatever, read the part of the book again, do it and you will see.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

The ONLY way Loken is coming back is if they let let Ben Counter write the last book in the series:laugh:


----------



## Epic Fail (Jun 23, 2008)

normtheunsavoury said:


> The ONLY way Loken is coming back is if they let let Ben Counter write the last book in the series:laugh:


or if Goto gets it he'll come back with multilasers, possibly riding a multilaser while firing many multilasers. The word myriad will be over and incorrectly used also. Something like:

"The myriad walls of Horus' battle barge were disintegrated under myriad volleys of multi-laser fire. Horus' myriad troops died in their myriads and Loken soared through the breach on a jet-multi-laser, multilaser arrays bristling from his armour. For the first time, Horus felt myriad fears".

If you've read Eldar prophecy, you'll know what I mean.


----------



## CaptainLoken (May 13, 2009)

HE HE now you mention it you have a point. 

Regardless on what people believe on Loken, Is he dead is he not! 

At teh end of the day it is a sign of a GOOD character that so many people are posting to argue the 'dead' 'not dead'. 

I say Loken rules. hehe:biggrin:


----------



## Exitus_10 (Jul 14, 2008)

God man you are right on the money there, he was the first in a line of cookie cutter marines in the universe, though I feel he was more of a bluie Ultramarine than a Luna Wolf he just never had that spark in him, the old dog spark which Iacton Qruze so readily carried around with him.


----------



## CaptainLoken (May 13, 2009)

Think that was due to him hailing from Terra originally so was more likely to be a stickler for the rules


----------



## primarch-angron (Mar 12, 2009)

Even I Have to admit that if he survived and came in to another book would totaly ruin BL


----------



## Emperor'sChild88 (Oct 7, 2008)

Loken is my favorite marine, so i would like to think he lived but i doubt he could have even made it off the planet if he did survive


----------



## Son of Russ (Jun 1, 2009)

Its not a complete impossibility for him to have survived, though I feel as Dan Abnett seems to find a certain finality in his work when he "deaths" an individual; He probably died and we will find certain other characters step forward in the later stories of the Horus Heresy - filling the void left by Loken...he will live on in spirit at the Astartes continue to resist the forces of Chaos!


----------



## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

It's been a while since I have read the 3rd book (so I don't remember this part), but I think some people here mentioned that Saul Travitz had sent a dreadnaught deep into Choral city before the final bombardment. If that is the case, and the dreadnaught survives, it could go and rescue Loken after the traitors leave. After that you could always have loken Macgyver some parts together to get off the planet.


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Well of course the dreadnought could go looking for Loken, had Loken not been dieing as the bombardment hit, had the bombardment missed the ruins of the building he was over, if the dreadnought knew exactly where to look. Then if Loken was somehow found and alive, your not even looking at a realisticly remote chance here, you would need someone else alive with the correct supplies to keep him alive and heal the injuries already killing him. (You know, shattered bone plate that is a space marines rib cage.)

Of course, even after all of that you then need to scoure the planet for the correct parts to build a warp capable ship. Thats as long as you know how to construct a space vessel, get it off planet, and then build a warp drive and a geler field so that you survive the trip.


Its one far from remotely possible thing after another, and yet people still refuse to accept what is a plain and obvious fact. Fanboyism and fanatacism refuse to see logic regardless of how many times its put in front of them..


----------



## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

The problem with fiction works is this... If the author doesn't come out and say, "this fucker's dead," then there is a possibility (even if it defies all logic) that aforementioned character will return. 

Personally? I think the fucker's dead as JFK.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Just another quick point, it's a long time since I read the book but didn't the Dreadnaught die as well?
I'm fairly certain that there was a crack in it's armour and it died holding onto another SM, can't remember who.


----------



## Epic Fail (Jun 23, 2008)

normtheunsavoury said:


> Just another quick point, it's a long time since I read the book but didn't the Dreadnaught die as well?
> I'm fairly certain that there was a crack in it's armour and it died holding onto another SM, can't remember who.


He did indeed, the life-eater ate him up.


----------



## Jjnnyrr (May 28, 2009)

Actually, that's two different Dreadnoughts. The one that dies is the Death Guard Dreadnought in the fourth book. 

There's a Dreadnought that survives the onslaught of the Life Eater virus and subsequent fire storm. I believe that one, a Luna Wolf or Emperor's Children Dreadnought is on a balcony and watching everything die around him.


----------



## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

I gotta get me that book!!! It sounds symbolic!!!


----------



## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

its an emperors children dread that is on the balcony and its a death guard one that dies. 

they dont say that all the survivours are killed by the bombard, so expect it to pop up in a later novel. 

as far as surviving an orbital bombard go check out the fluff to see if its posible and how effective they are. 

id be more interested about the fit and healthy marines left after the last wave if combat.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I don't remember there being two Dreads, but hey, I struggle to remember what I did this morning:biggrin:
I still don't think it's at all likely anything survived, thats the whole point of the end of that part of the story, they got whooped!
The point is that they were not a real threat as a military force, more of an affront to the pride and arrogance of the newly traitor Legions. Horus, Mortarion and the rest wanted them dead as a declaration of intent and to show that they were indeed serious about what they wanted to do.
Loken and the other's valiant fight against impossible odds was an example of what the Legions once were and what they were sacrificing.
Having any of these martyrs turn up in later books would, IMO, destroy the series. If I wanted to read that sort of stuff I'd get back into X-Men.
I think the only kick in the teeth still waiting to be revealed is the Mournival member, again memory fails me, that has said about him "We'd better keep an eye on him"
I can't remember whether it was Abaddon who said it or not but I'm certain it was said.


----------



## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

normtheunsavoury said:


> I don't remember there being two Dreads, but hey, I struggle to remember what I did this morning:biggrin:
> I still don't think it's at all likely anything survived, thats the whole point of the end of that part of the story, they got whooped!
> The point is that they were not a real threat as a military force, more of an affront to the pride and arrogance of the newly traitor Legions. Horus, Mortarion and the rest wanted them dead as a declaration of intent and to show that they were indeed serious about what they wanted to do.
> Loken and the other's valiant fight against impossible odds was an example of what the Legions once were and what they were sacrificing.
> ...


I actualy agree with you on this, making Loken's death a comic book death would destroy the char. However the question was "if he could have survived". I do think however what they should do is have him live long enough to have recorded what those marines did, how they fought to the last man and in the end had to be bombarded from space to be totaly destroyed. He doesn't even have to get out of the rubble, just maybe record it with some feature of his power armor (I don't know, make stuff up). Because when you think about it those marines died a really bad death, heroic yes, but not remembered nor their gene seed taken. All of us who have read the first 3 books I think would agree it would be in good taste to have them remembered. On Istavaan 5 at least some escaped (with gene seed I believe) so the deaths there, while tragic, would go on to be remembered.

They had a great op. to do this in "tales of heresy" as a short story but decided against it.


----------



## primarch-angron (Mar 12, 2009)

Going back to the EC dread. I heared that it went deep in to the core of the planet to protect something of great inportance from the trators. I don't know what it was but if he did he would still be on the planet buried in the core of the planet, wouldn't he?


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Zooey72 said:


> I actualy agree with you on this, making Loken's death a comic book death would destroy the char. However the question was "if he could have survived". I do think however what they should do is have him live long enough to have recorded what those marines did, how they fought to the last man and in the end had to be bombarded from space to be totaly destroyed. He doesn't even have to get out of the rubble, just maybe record it with some feature of his power armor (I don't know, make stuff up). Because when you think about it those marines died a really bad death, heroic yes, but not remembered nor their gene seed taken. All of us who have read the first 3 books I think would agree it would be in good taste to have them remembered. On Istavaan 5 at least some escaped (with gene seed I believe) so the deaths there, while tragic, would go on to be remembered.
> 
> They had a great op. to do this in "tales of heresy" as a short story but decided against it.


Their Gene-seed would not have been used anyway, depending on where you stand on the GK and Inquisition debate, as they were still part of a traitor legion.
I understand what you mean about them being able to record why they died but I think that just adds to the futilty of their battle. They didn't fight for glory or to be remembered by the Imperium, they fought for honour and as a stand against what the Legions had become.


----------



## dtq (Feb 19, 2009)

I have no particular attachements to the character (he was quite a few books ago now) Ive just reread the last chapter to form an opinion one way or another - I had quite forgotten the details. Ive certainly seen equally strong language used just to boost the hero factor of a character who survives, his final notes can easily be taken as unconciousness I would never assume in a book that "as he felt the world go black around him." suggested anything more than losing consciousness. There was stronger language than that used a few pages before just to hero-up his ability to take damage in his stride and keep on fighting... We have the line "even as the moment of death approached." after being picked up and chucked around, Which would easily pass for strong indicator of imminient death - although no specific cause of the approaching death, then we have "His vision swam back into focus" thats it then a unexplained near death injury from being thrown around and then hes back to full fury fighting... 

As far as I can see he had broken ribs and damaged armour, there was no real specifics on anything past broken ribs (twice? once from the feint \ knee and again as abaddon rose from the rubble) in the way of damage... Hardly a life or death matter even for a "mortal".

Normal every day people get pulled alive from building collapse's. I can certainly see it as possible for him to survive. Especially given the earlier lines about never giving up etc etc. Lets face it in reality our own very existance (as a species) took a lot of far longer shots than normal building collapse survival.

Neither him surviving nor the actual survivors finding his body would dissapoint me in anyway, being as the book is set 10,000 years before our "current" time in the game If he didnt die there and then hes most likelly died by now anyway . 

I suspect we will find out more later.

I do think as he was a key stone of the early books that a "laid to rest" scene is at the very least demanded at some point. That should answer the question once and for all, for now I dont really care either way.


----------



## primarch-angron (Mar 12, 2009)

dtq said:


> As far as I can see he had broken ribs and damaged armour, there was no real specifics on anything past broken ribs (twice? once from the feint knee and again as abaddon rose from the rubble) in the way of damage... Hardly a life or death matter even for a "mortal".
> 
> Normal every day people get pulled alive from building collapse's. I can certainly see it as possible for him to survive. Especially given the earlier lines about never giving up etc etc. Lets face it in reality our own very existance (as a species) took a lot of far longer shots than normal building collapse survival.


That is a good point, but we also have to remember the orbital bombardment that hit nearby after he had a building collapse on him and the broken bones as well. For use "mortal" if you get hit by a missle, you more then likely going to die. But we also have to remember that he isn't a mortal at all he is a Space Marine, be it a wounded one, but a Space Marine non the less.


----------



## Lord Lorne Walkier (Jul 19, 2009)

[*]How he survives the bombardment.
1) The main way one would survive a Bombardment is to get lucky. Most Bombardments in 40k and in particular "Orbital" Suffer from (in)accuracy. In the Game even if you roll a "hit" you still move the blast in the direction of the arrow. "Even for ships in low orbit, Precision fire is extremely difficult"
2)The Warmaster's opinion on the matter of surviving a bombardment is documented. I would say he would be a excelent source for this discussion.
QUOTE (Galaxy in Flames)
'Why not just bombard them?' asked Eidolon. The sudden silence that followed his question was defening.
Loken waited for the Warmaster to reprimand Eidolon for daring to question one of his decisions, but Horus only nodded indulgently. 'Because these people are vermin, and when you stamp out vermin from afar, some invariably survive.'
3)I will concede that even if Loken where to live through the Initial bombardment, it would also be really tough to survive the aftermath. I think he would have to have the assistance of others who for the same reasons above made it through bombing. As he was the Commander of those loyalists on Istavaan III, they would have a reason to know if he lived over any other. They would also then have to be able to find Loken, ( his armour would have a emergency location device.)

[*]How he gets off Isstvaan III.
Rylanor (EC Venerable Dreadnought) was rumored to have been sent to guard a underground hanger. A hanger that seems to predate human habitation of the planet. The Xenos hanger and possible ship there in are then means available to survivors to blast off the rock. The condition of the hanger and possible exit tube / ramp, or the number of ships, Method of operation ect are all at this point speculation.

[*]How he gets to Terra.
If Loken makes it this far i think the hard part of the journey will be over. All down hill from here.

[*]Why he is worthy to be spared.
.......He just lead a successful guerrilla war against the Warmaster, and lived to tell the tale. Nuff Said!

[*]How he gets round the entry qualifications for the Grey Knights.
We know scarcely little about the Council of Nikaea. I think it is not a large stretch that Loken could have been a Psychic who had his abilities suppressed by the command of the Emperor. I also feel his Psychic abilities where foreshadowed when he sparred with Lucius.
"I've been watching you, of course, the attacking strokes. I can read you"
"you wish"
" I can read you. Come for me"
Lucius lunged at Loken. Loken side- stepped, blade down, and punched Lucius in the face. Lucius fell on his back, hard.
"Precognitive Strike: Like a spider on a web, you are able to sense disturbances to your immediate future. This ability to read possible outcomes lets you anticipate the movement of your opponents. Pg 172 Dark Heresy.

[*]What marks him out above every other Marine that survives the Heresy to become a Grey Knight, or even anything above the standard Legion.
The Sum of the above is the answer to this last question.


----------



## BLvice (Mar 20, 2009)

Alright everyone, lets not be ridiculous.

Loken is obviously alive. 

Or... He might have been mortally wounded and had a building collapse on him, only to look up and witness an orbital bombardment on his position.


----------



## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

Lord Lorne Walkier said:


> [*]How he survives the bombardment.
> 1) The main way one would survive a Bombardment is to get lucky. Most Bombardments in 40k and in particular "Orbital" Suffer from (in)accuracy. In the Game even if you roll a "hit" you still move the blast in the direction of the arrow. "Even for ships in low orbit, Precision fire is extremely difficult"
> 2)The Warmaster's opinion on the matter of surviving a bombardment is documented. I would say he would be a excelent source for this discussion.
> QUOTE (Galaxy in Flames)
> ...


Whether it's true or not, it's all I've ever wanted to hear 

Loken lives *punches the sky*


----------



## Epic Fail (Jun 23, 2008)

Ok I didn't want to give it away but here's what happens:

It's obvious that he lived, teleported back to Terra using his awesome powers (now over 9,000) and then high fives the emperor, stops the heresy and lives forever as a hero, opens a chain of gyms, sells an ab-machine on late night TV then becomes an alcoholic, burns out on drugs then gets arrested in someone elses house late at night, naked, eating cheesos.

Hope I didn't spoil it for anyone.


----------



## DuesIncarmine (Jul 3, 2009)

im sorry to say that he didnt its the authers way of saying that he died a quick death


----------



## Lord Lorne Walkier (Jul 19, 2009)

DuesIncarmine said:


> im sorry to say that he didnt its the authers way of saying that he died a quick death


This is a quote from Aaron Dembski-Bowden's blog. His alter ego / "agent".

http://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/page/2/

" * I emailed him to ask if Loken was alive, but he never answered.

Jesus feathery Christ, boy. Let’s clear this up, shall we? My client is tired of being messaged on Facebook about this. He’s tired of the emails. He’s sick of the private messages on Warseer, Bolter & Chainsword, and Heresy Online. Mostly, he needs to stay the [Bleep!] off those forums, because they take up too much time and he needs to be writing instead of image-searching for Black Templar conversions. Lazy bastard. But whatever. Let’s wrap this bad boy up once and for all.

Loken is alive. Dan Abnett has said so himself, in terms as plain as my client’s first girlfriend. Stop asking. Just… just stop asking. If you keep asking, my client will be forced to choke some people, and really, no one needs that. No one wants to die by his hands. He’s a man of peace now. He’s done killing.

For the record, at his first Horus Heresy meeting, my client argued that it looked too much like Loken had died in Galaxy in Flames, and it wasn’t written vaguely enough for a convincing return. Ol’ Loken’s story looked finished. But this goes above one little opinion. Loken was always intended to survive, which is why Dan says on his videos and at numerous signings that “Loken is alive” and “Loken was always intended to survive”. So stop asking me. I mean… Aaron. Stop asking Aaron. Yes.

* Aaron’s cat is called Loken. Are you suuuuuuure you’re not being vague and playing a trick on us?

What are you, a masochist? Look at me. I’m a duck. Just looking at a duck makes people happy. Why aren’t you happy? Why do you keep asking these mentalist questions? Aaron’s cat is alive, and so is Garviel Loken, the Horus Heresy character. Now stop going on about it.

* How will Loken return?

Shut the hell up. That’s how."


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Loken was so angry at Abaddon for turning that he exploded at the precise moment the missiles hit. The missiles were actually duds, it was Loken`s anger that wiped out the planet. Only one as awesome as him could do that in death.

P.S. stay away from Istvaan, those bombs are still live...


----------



## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

Ok, just flew over to Aaron Dembski-Bowden's site, what a funny guy. And Loken is alive without a shadowq of a doubt. This is shaping up to be a good morning.


----------



## deathwatch_v (Mar 18, 2010)

i will put 20 dollars/pounds/rubels/yen (preferably yen  ) that Loken is alive. I totally agree that its almost impossible for him to have lived, but stranger things have happened and Loken is to powerful of a character in the HH series to have died. At no time has any author said hes dead....if they didn't have plans about bringing him back they would just say hes dead. They have no reason to lie if he did actually get snuffed.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Dan Abnett said a few months ago now that Loken is alive, so thats old news really.

Personally I think its a shame that he didn't die on Isstvan III.


----------



## dark angel (Jun 11, 2008)

I was never a fan of Loken, personally I would love to see him die. Sad that he still lives though, how the hell could someone survive that? I mean, I know he is an Astartes but even that is pushing it. I wouldn't mind seeing more from Ancient Rylanor though, he is badass :victory:.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

dark angel said:


> I was never a fan of Loken, personally I would love to see him die. Sad that he still lives though, how the hell could someone survive that? I mean, I know he is an Astartes but even that is pushing it. I wouldn't mind seeing more from Ancient Rylanor though, he is badass :victory:.


Personally I thought Loken was a great character. But his death symbolised the death of the Emperor's Imperium and the horrors of the Heresy, where brother turned on brother and the Galaxy burned.

To have Loken survive in my opinion robs us of the tradegy of Isstvan III. We actually cared about Loken, he was the main character in the opening trilogy - and his death made us really get a feel for the tradegy of Isstvan III. We don't really care about the loyal Death Guard who were killed in the trenches or the loyal World Eaters that were caught in the Firestorm, we care about Loken. And also I agree with ADB, the scene of Loken's 'death' in _Galaxy in Flames_ made it next to impossible to make it logical for him to have survived. I can just hope that when he does make his return it will be handled in a reasonable manner (Eg. Not by Ben Counter!) and is not in a cheesy/cliche/unbelievable way.


----------



## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Personally I thought Loken was a great character. But his death symbolised the death of the Emperor's Imperium and the horrors of the Heresy, where brother turned on brother and the Galaxy burned.
> 
> To have Loken survive in my opinion robs us of the tradegy of Isstvan III. We actually cared about Loken, he was the main character in the opening trilogy - and his death made us really get a feel for the tradegy of Isstvan III. We don't really care about the loyal Death Guard who were killed in the trenches or the loyal World Eaters that were caught in the Firestorm, we care about Loken. And also I agree with ADB, the scene of Loken's 'death' in _Galaxy in Flames_ made it next to impossible to make it logical for him to have survived. I can just hope that when he does make his return it will be handled in a reasonable manner (Eg. Not by Ben Counter!) and is not in a cheesy/cliche/unbelievable way.


I think Tarvitz`s final gambit, with his remaining Emperor`s Children loyalists alongside the few Luna Wolves, Death Guard and World Eaters; culminating in their destruction by the treachery of Lucius, and a fair shair of pounding by the _Dies Irae_, with the final orbital bombardment topping it off, gives us a great sense of loss already and bitter sense of grief, if not vengeance with the murder of Torgaddon. Loken is merley the icing upon the cake, but regardless, as much as I revered him and enjoyed his _almost_ Garro-like and neutral attire, it is obvious he will return somehow: If I can remember correctly, the final pages of _Galaxy in Flames_ says as much, although not directly, as well as slivers of information Abnett has let slip into the void of ever-thirsting fans.

Loken or Aximand for the title of 'Astartes who is slain by a taunting Horus, goading the Emperor to obliterate him in a phsycic lance strike', although the original guardsmen, Imperial Fist terminator and Custodian may still be upon this 'table'


----------



## deathwatch_v (Mar 18, 2010)

Wow, that would be an epic ending for Loken. I think that Lokens story post Isstvan could be really good, kinda like a cool Soul Drinkers kinda flavour, except he gets vaporised by Horus at the end, hmmm


----------



## Lord Lorne Walkier (Jul 19, 2009)

dark angel said:


> I was never a fan of Loken, personally I would love to see him die. Sad that he still lives though, how the hell could someone survive that? I mean, I know he is an Astartes but even that is pushing it. I wouldn't mind seeing more from Ancient Rylanor though, he is badass :victory:.


I would point you to the top of page 6 on this thread. I posted what i think will be the way out for Loken.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Personally I thought Loken was a great character. But his death symbolised the death of the Emperor's Imperium and the horrors of the Heresy, where brother turned on brother and the Galaxy burned.
> 
> To have Loken survive in my opinion robs us of the tradegy of Isstvan III. We actually cared about Loken, he was the main character in the opening trilogy - and his death made us really get a feel for the tradegy of Isstvan III. We don't really care about the loyal Death Guard who were killed in the trenches or the loyal World Eaters that were caught in the Firestorm, we care about Loken. And also I agree with ADB, the scene of Loken's 'death' in _Galaxy in Flames_ made it next to impossible to make it logical for him to have survived. I can just hope that when he does make his return it will be handled in a reasonable manner (Eg. Not by Ben Counter!) and is not in a cheesy/cliche/unbelievable way.


I think the reason BL decided to make it seem like Loken died was to instill the very feelings you express. They wanted people to argue about it. That is why they left the small clues that i have been trying to point out. Some of theses clues are easy to over look or chalk up to bad writing/ editing. I also think that your view of the tragic nature of the HH is also intentional and misleading. It is a form of propaganda. The way we have up to now seen the HH has been due to the Empire needing people to think about it in a way that it would never happen again. If people had known that there were loyalest survivors of the traitor legions they might think it was not all that bad. Maybe even have sympathy for the traitors. The reason i think i have been able to see through the fog that has been blown in our face is that i am a optimist to a fault. I always looked at 40k as a story of hope not the "Grim-Dark". When i first saw the cover or Rouge Trader i saw Heroes fighting on even when there was little chance of hope, not dead guys who did not know the fight was already over. When we find out how Loken lives it WILL defy logic. It WILL be "Plot amour". I have my money on "Divine intervention". The first manifestation of the Shrouding, ala the Grey Knights. Some will still think it is "cheesy/cliche/unbelievable".



bobss said:


> I think Tarvitz`s final gambit, with his remaining Emperor`s Children loyalists alongside the few Luna Wolves, Death Guard and World Eaters; culminating in their destruction by the treachery of Lucius, and a fair shair of pounding by the _Dies Irae_, with the final orbital bombardment topping it off, gives us a great sense of loss already and bitter sense of grief, if not vengeance with the murder of Torgaddon. Loken is merley the icing upon the cake, but regardless, as much as I revered him and enjoyed his _almost_ Garro-like and neutral attire, it is obvious he will return somehow: If I can remember correctly, the final pages of _Galaxy in Flames_ says as much, although not directly, as well as slivers of information Abnett has let slip into the void of ever-thirsting fans.


I hate to..... no i don't. Saul Tarvitz and the few Luna Wolves, Death Guard, World Eaters, and Emperors Children with him will also survive. Although we have no statement from ADB to back this up i will say it any way. Some one has to dig Loken out from under that building. If you have a copy of the Collected Visions HH info book you might check me on this. There is no topic talked about in that book more the the War on Istavaan III. The Very Last sentence is about Tarvitz looking up at the bombs coming down to kill them. He thinks to him self that it would take a miracle for them to survive. What would be the point in talking a bout a miracle that never happens?


----------

