# A million Orks invade Earth



## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

This is my effort to move away from all the Star Wars stuff that's recently been popping up. What do you guys think would happen if a large space hulk carrying roughly a million Orks crash landed on current day Earth. Here's two scenarios:

1. The Orks just randomly landed in this solar system and decided to attack it. Also, they're led by an average, run-of-the-mill Warboss.

2. The Orks intentionally targetted our planet and have made an effort to be prepared for a proper assault. And they're led by an exceptional Orks Warlord like Snagrod or Ghazghkull.

So, how do you guys think this would go?

Edit: Before anyone starts ranting, I know there's a multi-thread post fuck up and have already contacted a mod to help sort it out. My internet connection is fucked.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I think they'd conquer earth

I mean their tech looks ramshackle but apparently it's deadly enough to hold up in 40k
they'd have an easy time beating 3rd millennium/21st century humans 

did you click four times on the post button while it was lagging or something like that?


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

No, I clicked once, all my open tabs froze up, I tried clearing the cache, then that got halfway and froze up, then I disconnected and reconnected and then tried to create the thread again (which I did) and then there were suddenly four of them. Like I said, there's something seriously wrong with my modem.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

As for the orks.

I'd say earth is in a really dangerous battle, but since it's only a million it will end as an environmental hazard which produce pocket tribes and specks of orks since we don't know how to stop them.

A million is probably not enough to conquer earth.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

The orks would take out a lot of people and would cause trillions of dollars in damage, but a million is not a sufficient number to eliminate roughly 7 billion people.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

In scenario two, earth would probably have a really hard time getting their grasp on this special character thing, since the only place earth has had those is in movies and games.

So that would be an interesting scenario, but the boss would ultimately die since earth would probably go nuclear on him.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

With modern technologies and tactics, I don't think it'd be that tough to tackle. Our weapons are capable of reaching beyond the range of Ork ground weapons. We'd destroy them without them ever seeing us. Even their titans wouldn't be able to survive. At least judging by the power of Titan weapons when they miss and hit stuff.

The only problem is if they decided to chill in orbit and destroy the Earth. Yeah, we don't have anything to scratch their ships. Though after a few hours they'd probably crash their ships into the planet to kill some pinkies.


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## arlins (Sep 8, 2010)

you gotta remember that 40k weapon charachteristics are not viable in the real world 
and humans would just kill them at range .
If they got into heavily occupied urban areas it would be bad though as plenty of cover 
allows more up close and personal encounters.
A million not enough to defeat earth , BUT while theyre here their SPORES would spread
out and i think random outbreaks of bands of orcs from the more unoccupied areas 
of the planet( amazon, jungles , outback etc) would plague the world for well ....ever .
And the yearly fungus hunt would be a regular community event just to be sure


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## jfvz (Oct 23, 2010)

I think we would probs send a nuke or two their way, have a massive cover up, orks bread up again, we research for a while then nuke them again. If they where spred out over over large areas (multiple spacecraft) they would breed up numbers and gradually overwhelm the current population of earth, as it would take a long time to figure out their reproductive methods and even longer to begin to counter it.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

If 40K Orks appear on Earth, then we have to assume we're then playing by the rules of the 40K 'verse. 
If they come down on top of the US, or any populous, 'westernised' country, then freedom of action is shut down really fast. In a sparsely populated area it might be possible to justify the deaths of some people in order to protect a vastly larger number. But, if the drop onto Europe or the Middle East, then WMDs are out of the question as you'll kill millions of Humans and damage vitally important infrastructure. No armed force that exists on Earth at present could hope to defend against an army of 1,000,000. Once that atmy has orbital support, fantastic weaponry (who could defend against a Shokk Attak Gun/Stompa/get through a KFF?) and, through spores, becomes self reinforcing- no chance.

GFP


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Depends where they Land. If they lane in China... They're outnumbered. If they land in America, they're outgun. If they Land in the EU, the French would eat them. So the only 3 places they could land and have a chance to build a power base from would be Middle East or the best place for them to land, Africa. Personly a Million Orks are not that hard to kill. Most Human Penal Legions (like in Soul Drinkers 4th book, and Last Chancers 1st/3rd book) show a Guardsman can kill a Ork with a knife to the face.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

A million Orks isn't enough to overrun the Earth, and whilst humanity would suffer dearly we would endure the conflict. As _GFP_ above said, the biggest obstacle would be publically justifying the deaths of (probably) millions (if not more) of humans in order to exterminate the Orks. 

Although as has been said, the Orkish Waaagh! and method of reproduction would prove a massive and costly challenge. But a mere million Orks simply wouldn't be enough in my opinion.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Given the enlightened nature of humanity now (compared to 40k) I imagine there would be initial shock and devastation, before the threat was effectively contained and neautralised.


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## jack (Oct 30, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> If they Land in the EU, the French would eat them.


The French don't exactly have a great record for millitary victories, they'll be collaborating by lunchtime and toadying up to Le Warboss. 

I reckon that a million would not be enough to conquer Earth. How many times have massively outnumbered guardsmen defeated hordes of Orks. And they would be heavily outnumbered and out-gunned in some cases. Eg, Air power.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> If they Land in the EU, the French would eat them..


Orks are space shrooms not snails.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Apart from the debacle of WWII, the French have about the most impressive military record you could imagine. Napoleon was no scrub and even before that they were a force to be reckoned with.
I doubt there is the military materiel readily available to come anywhere near close to killing a million Orks. The most advanced planes and tanks are hard-arse and top quality, but there aren't even clost to being the stockpiles of the necessary weapons for them to use. Plus, if they, and the MBTs that are used, are damaged, they're not quick or cheap to repair. Worse still, if you lose the Pilots and trained vehicle crews, it's not like WWII when Chaps with less than 10hrs of flight time could be sent up with any hope of achieving anything.
Our current 'best' militaries look so good because they have lots of time and space to think and react, and much, much, much better equipment than those they fight against. Yet, they are small and exhausted quite quickly, specially as the complexity of the weapon systems/vehicles they use increases. What happens when there are no spares readily available for the Abrams/Challenger/Leopard? What happens if the fuel for the Apaches runs out? How do you switch the strategic and tactical thinking to counter an enemy that doesn't give a shit about 'objectives' and just wants to destroy for the sake of destroying? Do we have any counter to Wierdboyz? Meks won't care if their stuff is destroyed, it's just more junk to play with! A MBT might take weeks to repair, specially if it's the computers that are damaged (how to you recognise that a psychic attack ruined the electronics and how do you protect against it, of course that's unless that busted tank is now full of enraged, and rather confused, Squigs), but a Dread or Killa Kan might go together in hours, a Stompa in days. If all of the available Hellfire missiles in-theatre have been used, what to do about Battlewagons and Gargants?
From a cold-start, we're doomed. If we get enough warning to set the planet on a war-footing and co-operating, then we should stand a reasonable chance.

GFP


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Hmmm, certainly a lot of interesting answers. I picked the million number because I didn't want the fight to be one-sided either way. And I also think that people should consider the second scenario more closely. 

The wars for Armageddon showed what prepared Orks with a clever leader can do. I think that the planet would have fallen during the third war if Ghazghkull had stuck it out and also taken out Yarrick when he had the chance. But then, the Orks didn't really lose, as they got the endless conflict they wanted.

I was of the opinion that an unorganised horde of a million would not be able to conquer Earth but that an organised horde with a strong leader could. Also, the Orks still have tech that we can't even dream of and have no defence against, like teleportation technology and, like GFP mentioned, exotic weapons like the shokk attack gun.

But then, for those of you who think a million Orks can't pull it off, what numbers would you suggest?


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

one billion.

A plausible number and it would totally rip earth to shreds.
They could probably do it with less too.

So i say.......120million orks ? Not a military accountant so i don't really know earths hidden defences.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Chompy Bits said:


> 1. The Orks just randomly landed in this solar system and decided to attack it. Also, they're led by an average, run-of-the-mill Warboss.
> Humans would definitely win this. Any human can kill an Ork at ranged, given time. It's morale Earth has to worry about, but the Warhammer players will be something of a rallying point. Besides, 4 Billion (Reasonably) humans could easily take on just one million Orks, if they were all armed with todays military rifles. Factor in the armour for both sides and I think it's a clear win for humanity. The only problem Earth would have is the Space Fleet, but I think that enough missiles would destroy the Ork ships eventually.
> 
> 2. The Orks intentionally targetted our planet and have made an effort to be prepared for a proper assault. And they're led by an exceptional Orks Warlord like Snagrod or Ghazghkull. Ghazghkull almost managed to take Armageddon, which was in a good position to defend itself (Churned out tanks and ammo all day long). However, numbers is an annoying setback for the greenskins. I'm not sure that anything on Earth short of a tank round could stop Ghazghkull when he's on the warpath. Snagrod wasn't actually a great Warlord; the Crimson Fists killed themselves, to be honest. None of it was actually Snagrod's doing.


My views.

Midnight


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## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

just think, people like us would be made generals in seconds because no one else would even begin to know how to fight the orks.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> If 40K Orks appear on Earth, then we have to assume we're then playing by the rules of the 40K 'verse.
> If they come down on top of the US, or any populous, 'westernised' country, then freedom of action is shut down really fast. In a sparsely populated area it might be possible to justify the deaths of some people in order to protect a vastly larger number. But, if the drop onto Europe or the Middle East, then WMDs are out of the question as you'll kill millions of Humans and damage vitally important infrastructure. No armed force that exists on Earth at present could hope to defend against an army of 1,000,000. Once that atmy has orbital support, fantastic weaponry (who could defend against a Shokk Attak Gun/Stompa/get through a KFF?) and, through spores, becomes self reinforcing- no chance.
> GFP


yeah, you'd have to assume that their tech would work for this thread to be any fun

if you assume the orks' tech would not work in "real life", you might as well just say orks do not exist in real life

I'm guessing that a million orks would be a serious threat to most Imperial planets, plus orks reproduce at an incredible rate

in the case of 21st century earth, just nuking them is not a good idea because we only have one planet...nukes cause massive environmental damage and radioactive fall out (which would probably hurt us more than them) 
nuking them would only be a valid option if they all gathered in some relatively unpopulated, remote area...I suppose we could try to bait them


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

I think many people are forgetting is the tech the orks can bring down, and the scenario with Ghazghkull or Snagrod would mean certain doom for most of us since not only are Orks ridiculously resilient but also they have space tech and in the case of the special characters they have tellyportas. I mean look at mega-armour, it is basically the roughly Orkish equivalent to termie armour just from the amount of armour bashed around the ork inside. This along with the ramshackle abilities of the orks to rehash their broken rides and tanks so easily makes them an incredibly tenacious foe for us to face, especially since we try to avoid collateral damage and mass hysteria from the populace would have us screwed. Throw in the possibilty of Gargants, Stompas, Battle Fortresses and other crazy abilities they have like throwing asteroids/roks at us we're are bona fide boned.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> yeah, you'd have to assume that their tech would work for this thread to be any fun
> 
> if you assume the orks' tech would not work in "real life", you might as well just say orks do not exist in real life
> 
> ...


I know exactly how to bait them BRING OUT THE CARBOARD CUT OUTS AND FAKE HEADS!


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

If they landed in Britain we would ask America for help, hire a fat president to make a epic speech, then fight a epic air war before wining and claiming we did it all!














I LOVE BRITAIN


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## ChaosDefilerofUlthuan (Jan 25, 2011)

Another depending on where you land idea..
If in England we'd fight on the beaches, in the fields but never surrender cause of what a fat guy with a cigar problem but never smoking them just chewing the ends said then ask America for help :biggrin:

Ok Kiro admit that was my idea but not the air battle


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

:ireful2:


ChaosDefilerofUlthuan said:


> Another depending on where you land idea..
> If in England we'd fight on the beaches, in the fields but never surrender cause of what a fat guy with a cigar problem but never smoking them just chewing the ends said then ask America for help :biggrin:
> 
> Ok Kiro admit that was my idea but not the air battle


Absoutly no!
I read the post about if they landed in France, then said if they landed in Britain we'ed f
Hire a fat president, then make epic speech, then you said we'ed ask the americans for help - the time I had posted a I had thought about a air war

And stealing the ask the Americans idea is not worth -1 rep!
Just because your a dark disiple, posting every day with shit things just so your name can be in green does not earn you the right to go around neg repping me just so you rub it in further that you have more rep than me!!!!:ireful2:[rant/]


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

We repel the initial wave, but once the spores are in the air, we're set to be conquered. We'd probably just nuke the place once it got too bad though.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

If they landed in England we would not have a chance as all our troops and equipment are in Iraq, Libya and Afghan, and all the pressed troops would be chavs who would not get up in time to fight a war...there are about 6 guys with rifles left here to defend us!
Also....given the 'mob rule'....you would have to kill a lot of orks before they take a leadership test!


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## Rathios1337 (Jul 2, 2010)

Up here in Scotland they would probs Integrate effectively into society


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

If they landed in the midlands I'm confident the local farmers and their shotguns would see them off!


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

If they have any control over their arrival, and they get to see a night-view of Earth then I can't see them aiming for anywhere but Europe. Whatever the population it's going to _look_ more densely populated and, so, the best bet for a fight. At a stroke, this invalidates just about every Naval asset except for those that can fire Cruise missiles, and those will only matter for as long as stocks of said missiles last.
No-one is equipped to deal with a million troops (did I already say that?), specially troops that get bigger and more aggressive the more they fight, who replace themselves in a way that is not immediately apparent, who don't require Human food because their own mysteriously appears wherever they go, whose tech is both archaic and light years ahead of Humanity's best, who can wreck the toughest tanks with bloody _hammers!_ and whojust don't give a single shit about anything.
I don't think Earth would cope well with a 40K-era army of any type, if only because we don't have (which I'm very glad about) that hard-headed 'any sacrifice' mindset that abounds in 40K. In, admirably, trying to protect the weak and keep hold of territory and production capacity whilst uninvolved countries keep themselves aloof and don't get stuck-in immediately when it would make the difference.
I really hope that the GW fluff-meisters haven't accidentally channeled a real Warp and written an awful truth- if it really is 40, or even 30, K out there, I hope no-one notices us!

GFP


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## ChaosDefilerofUlthuan (Jan 25, 2011)

I take it that the brutalman comes from the midlands. Kiro you just technically admitted you did it by saying you'd never admit. I Win :taunt:


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

ChaosDefilerofUlthuan said:


> I take it that the brutalman comes from the midlands. Kiro you just technically admitted you did it by saying you'd never admit. I Win :taunt:


In case your wondering we didn't ask the americans for help, they just throw their tanks down wherever a shot is fired. (If you are an american and reading this I'm sorry, but its true  )

and in case your wondering that fat guy was a brilliant man.

Can we go back on the subject now?


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

I would agree with the Orks giving the humies a run for their money and with GFP's reasoning which is sound and true. 

Humans will use their whole nuclear arsenal if they have to as a last ditch effort to exterminate a threat, while containing a very small section for continued survival. 

The world's military is NOT as big as it use to be with disarmament's and demilitarization's further reducing all military capabilities. All the military forces in the world hardly make up a fraction of the total Earth's population, which about 3/4 of the population is civilian with or hardly any military training, also counting the sick, children, elderly and disabled. Also many countries besides a few have adopted small "elite" or highly trained armies for military operations as it is affordable and efficient, but hardly capable of enduring a extended conflict that could last for years, against a adversary they have no training to fight against it. Orks are not like humans, so all that military for human targets will probably be null and useless. Most Orks are tough as nails and many can be shot multiple times before being brought down, besides IG fanboy novels saying that a simple guardsmen can take one out easily. 

Humanities only hope is to engage the Orks in a manner that offers full fire power support with a coalition of ALL nationalities working together, combining all their military strength of Air, Navel, and Land units. Also fighting the Orks in a way that they cant use their whole numbers, something like a 300 scenario of old with the Spartans vs Persians. It would be a drawn out conflict and humans will lose ground many times as Orks will not give them any. 

Anyway, if the threat is deemed to serious and the Orks land in a high density location, then a order of evacuation would be immediate and the first strike would simply be nuclear and casualties would be deemed acceptable because its better to sacrifice some to save many.

21st Century Humans vs Orks...... Orks win, as once they get on a planet they will never be gone. As no Imperial World besides ones that have been Exterminatus, have ever managed to find a way to get rid of them all.


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## ChaosDefilerofUlthuan (Jan 25, 2011)

That fat guy was a brilliant man & I can offer you a large amount of Churchill facts but DreMister is right that we'ed need tom work together but that's never going to happen


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## ChaosDefilerofUlthuan (Jan 25, 2011)

Rathios1337 said:


> Up here in Scotland they would probs Integrate effectively into society


 HA ha ha. :biggrin:


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Get real. In england people would be so apathetic the Orks would just give up and krump some frenchie 'eads. And they'd steer clear of Scotland by a mile. That place's name is infamous across the galaxy and beyond.


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> Get real. In england people would be so apathetic the Orks would just give up and krump some frenchie 'eads. And they'd steer clear of Scotland by a mile. That place's name is infamous across the galaxy and beyond.


I second that, even the black plague wouldn't go in there.

(P.S. my origins are scottish :biggrin


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Karak The Unfaithful said:


> (P.S. my origins are scottish :biggrin


Same :victory:
Half scot, quarter italian, quarter pakistani. Yes, I am a complete mongrel and in no way English (except for the fact that I was born and live there).


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

gen.ahab said:


> The orks would take out a lot of people and would cause trillions of dollars in damage, but a million is not a sufficient number to eliminate roughly 7 billion people.


 UNLESS THEY'RE ALL ULTRAMARINES!


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## Vokshev (Feb 12, 2011)

Actually the Ork invasion might be just what the Earth need to finally unite together for good, the discovery of other hostile species would open everyones eye, barriers that previously prevented unity such as national pride or even religion will slowly erode away.

It does not matter where they land, the entire world will be against them, not just the country they land and they will have no chance of survival.

Plus we can look forward to the definite rapid advancement of the earth's space program if everyone works together, as once we ran out of people to destroy within our own world...it is time to expand and conquer and plunder the universe.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Vokshev said:


> barriers that previously prevented unity such as national pride or even religion will slowly erode away.


:rofl: 

Yeah, because that would last.


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## Vokshev (Feb 12, 2011)

It will not, that is why we will seek out new enemies to occupy ourselves.


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## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

Vokshev said:


> Actually the Ork invasion might be just what the Earth need to finally unite together for good, the discovery of other hostile species would open everyones eye, barriers that previously prevented unity such as national pride or even religion will slowly erode away.
> 
> It does not matter where they land, the entire world will be against them, not just the country they land and they will have no chance of survival.
> 
> Plus we can look forward to the definite rapid advancement of the earth's space program if everyone works together, as once we ran out of people to destroy within our own world...it is time to expand and conquer and plunder the universe.


 
iv been waiting for this to happen for years because your right, its what we need to get our shit together
we need to stop killing each other and start killing all the xeno scum out there


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Because we always need prejudice, right. Whether it's against Jews, blacks or fucking aliens, there always has to be somebody for humans to hate...


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## DivineArchitect (Mar 24, 2011)

i think if they issued a statement on the news tonight that an ork warband was on its way here, i think every they'd conscript everyone of the planets 7billion men. in a matter if days ..not that most would complain..anyone who doesn't want to fight for mankind is a serious douche.

as for arming the population i have about 20 kitchen knives and i all i need to do is kill 1 ork 4 billion people against 1 million...no trouble we'll just have to go krieg on there ass.

as the british say, for the greater good


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## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> Because we always need prejudice, right. Whether it's against Jews, blacks or fucking aliens, there always has to be somebody for humans to hate...


i was joking man, didnt mean to offend anyone


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

LOL no, just me on a rant again..


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## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> LOL no, just me on a rant again..


ok cool, i was just getting into the 40k spirit of things, you know purge the heretic and kill the xeno etc etc


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## Vokshev (Feb 12, 2011)

The Gunslinger said:


> i was joking man, didnt mean to offend anyone


It is true, since the birth of mankind, we have yet to run out of reasons to kill each other. If only the world can be one single great nation, there is nothing we cannot achieve.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Vokshev said:


> It is true, since the birth of mankind, we have yet to run out of reasons to kill each other. If only the world can be one single great nation, there is nothing we cannot achieve.


We still wouldn't be able to find a cure for Justin Bieber. It would take a drastic change for the world to unite as one....and I don't think orks invading is big enough, maybe for a short alliance.

People kill for anything here is a brief list:
Religion
Appearance
Belief
Location
Accent 
Likes (I like oranges)
Dislikes (I hate oranges)
Cause 1000 years ago someone called someones leader/ancestor a sissy
Has something they want
Has more of something they want
Doesn't have something they want
OVER A HAMBURGER!!!!!!


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## Vokshev (Feb 12, 2011)

We can make Justin Bieber a Space Marine.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

locustgate said:


> OVER A HAMBURGER!!!!!!


It was my whopper, you son of a bitch!


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> It was my whopper, you son of a bitch!


Don't lie. Everyone knows that I had it first. . *adopts evil Gollum voice* My precious...


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## andygorn (Apr 1, 2011)

Once Orks get into somewhere, isn't it basically a foregone conclusion that they keep re-spawning until they win due to the 'spores'-thing (unless that idea got dropped)?

Just imagine a distant battlefield, 2 IG troopers discussing an entire army of the loathsome enemies of Humanity/Orkdom who are being thrown all over the place whilst they simultaneously try to overcome a single huge-fisted, bellowing green-coloured foe with their sheer numbers.
#1 "Hey, is that Ghazghkull underneath all those cultists?"
#2 "Nope, he's over on the right flank, smashing up Baneblades..."
#1 "So who's the blood-covered monstrosity over there, then?"
#2 "That's Marneus Calgork..."

IMHO, the universe sounds 100x cooler already, doesn't it? (lol).


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Vokshev said:


> We can make Justin Bieber a Space Marine.


No only males can be SM...Bieber is..........well sexless.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

They would move to Essex, where they'd be indistinguishable from most of the locals anyway.


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## Flash (May 11, 2011)

I would say in either scenario the crash of a Space Hulk itself would cause cataclysmic destruction on a scale we're not prepared for, wherever the actual impact was.

The Space Hulk would more than likely contain technology far beyond our own that the Orks would more than likely make use of in some destructive way as quickly as possible. Gargants and things would probably be among these devices.

The actual battle of modern man vs Ork would be a warfare we've never experienced. Orks are massive compared to humans and I think the savagey they would inflict upon us isn't something we could prepare for despite our modern technology. It would only get us so far. The morale factor is also an issue. As the war goes on and on and on and the cost in resources and lives goes up and up we would probably start to fall apart on a social and economic scale. All the time, the Orks are just doing what they do and having fun while they're at it.

I think the Orks would quickly start to multiply faster than we could beat them via conventional means, so nuclear war would eventually be considered probably destroying more of us than them in the process. Another downside of nuclear war itself is that it probably wouldn't be enough to actually wipe them all out.

Basically after a nuclear war over time the earth would eventually get dragged in to a never ending state of guerilla warfare and our world would probably end up like that game Digganob a while back. Mad max shit for eternity.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Flash said:


> Basically after a nuclear war over time the earth would eventually get dragged in to a never ending state of guerilla warfare and our world would probably end up like that game Digganob a while back. Mad max shit for eternity.


ER....what's Digganob?


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## Flash (May 11, 2011)

It was like a spin off or expansion of gorkamorka with humans.


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## Brother Arnold (Aug 29, 2010)

I'm not sure if we 40k fans should be scared or really excited if Orks invade. On the one hand we know what we're dealing with and what they're capable of. On the other hand we know what we're dealing with, and therefore we know the best ways to beat them and we'll become very important to the human race.

Then on the other other hand we can burst out the doors with flamethrowers and yell, "BRING IT ON BITCHES" before torching the whole town whilst yelling "WHO'S THE PATHETIC NERDY LOSER NOW?!"


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

The war that ensued, if in the West, would be most remeniscent of the trenches of WWI. Not the trenches _per se_, but fortified positions and blockhouses that, hopefully, the Orkish hordes smash against and are torn apart.
It might be, through the fact of sheer numbers, that the Chinese PLA or the North Korean Army can go toe-to-toe with the Orks, but that depends very much on if these armies are mainly poorly-trained and poorly-equipped Conscripts leavened with more, but less common, elite units with top-quality equipment OR if they are professional throughout. If the latter, then lets hope the Orks land in their neck of the woods (sorry anyone who lives/originates from over there!); I believe that it's the former, however, so we're left with, as I can see, only one real route to victory:
The Orks land in China. At once, the PLA and North Koreans attack to try to protect their countries. With these massive armies holding the Orks in place, the more mobile forces of NATO and the Russian Federation, backed-up by whatever the UN can throw together, can re-inforce from wherever they're needed most. If Nukes are needed, then it will be NATO and Russia that will be the best providers as only these groups can launch at such long range and with any hope of accuracy. There's also the fact that they have a range of warhead yield and type; tactical nukes will be of more value than the H-bombs. Let's just hope the Orks don't bring their own with them or get hold of any of ours!

GFP


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## Brother Arnold (Aug 29, 2010)

Another thing about location of the main attack: The place from a human perspective they could land in is around about the main oil-producing areas. Earthlings technology depends entirely on oil. Cripple the world air supply, planes and transport are gone very soon. We would lose the ability to get the Orks from the sky. And they've still got fighta-bombaz.


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## POOHEAD189 (Jun 17, 2011)

Rathios1337 said:


> Up here in Scotland they would probs Integrate effectively into society


This made me lol.
I have always wanted to go to scotland. 

It would be a tough fight either way. Orks are extremely resilient and strong, and they have technology that can work in ways that would baffle us. 
An Ork can cut his own arm off, and get it reatttached with 18th century knowledge of surgical procedures.
Plus, we arent used to fighting orcs. We would use walls as cover in an urban battle scenario, while Orks would barrel through the walls and snap a troopers neck. 
But we are no pushovers either, and we have numbers and we know the lay of the land. 



> I'm not sure if we 40k fans should be scared or really excited if Orks invade. On the one hand we know what we're dealing with and what they're capable of. On the other hand we know what we're dealing with, and therefore we know the best ways to beat them and we'll become very important to the human race.
> 
> Then on the other other hand we can burst out the doors with flamethrowers and yell, "BRING IT ON BITCHES" before torching the whole town whilst yelling "WHO'S THE PATHETIC NERDY LOSER NOW?!"


^


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## Gochu85 (Jun 17, 2011)

As much as I love my Orks, they would lose badly. We have enough oil stockpiled by the militaries all over the world (especially the U.S.) to withstand a prolonged war. And all of our weaponry can be pretty nasty once we are no longer worried about "civilian casualties". I am pretty sure our ROE would change drastically from the wars in afghanistan and iraq we are fighting. Yeah, we would lose a number of men, but in the end they could not stand against the combined might of all the militaries in the world. And China has seriously upgraded their army, they are no longer the ill-trained poorly equipped slobs they were during the Korean War. I can't say the same about North Korea, though, their troops are so hungry they might just beat the Orks on their own trying to get a free source of food. Even if Ghazgkhull himself came, we could still do it. A couple of JDAMS dropped on his head, no problem. Some MOABs throughout the horde would tear them apart pretty nicely too. We would never need to resort to going nuclear. As for the spores, yes we would be dealing with them for a long time, but we can see anything on this world at any time, we could crush the groups before they got a chance to spread. Earth - 1; Orks - 0.

God it hurts to say that.


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## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

I'd say it highly depends on their distribution over the planet. If they all end up in the same spot, they're screwed. Their chances increase if they land spread out - more so if some of them drop in the middle of nowhere without us realizing/being too occupied with the ones in the cities, which would make the spores far more of a factor.

I'd expect the initial push to be repelled, but the Orks will be back...


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)

Looking at it from a military perspective, the armies of the world would have a real issue with the greenskins...particularly any military utilizing the 5.56 NATO round. A lot of people bitch about that bullet's suitability to kill an unarmored Human, let alone an Ork with trash can lids and storm doors nailed to his face. Plus, there is currently no real doctrine for dealing with an enemy force capable of advancing en masse into hand-to-hand combat. We'd get stomped in that department, and badly.

In the end though, I do think we'd have numbers on our size, and of course home field advantage. We'd end up using nukes, naturally. What sucks really is that we can't even reverse-engineer the shit the Orks brought with them to bring up our own level of technology, since all their stuff works simply because the Orks are convinced it should.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

We would just point a say 'he took your favourite shoota!' and the orks would kill themselves


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## kavyanshrike (Sep 10, 2011)

The Gunslinger said:


> just think, people like us would be made generals in seconds because no one else would even begin to know how to fight the orks.


that would be so legendary 
Also if irks attacked cities then we would be pretty screwed as we wouldn't have the morale of the imperial guard or astartes so we would have to stop all current wars to deal with this then they would anhilate us with stompas and sguigoths and overwhelming numbers as most of the time the imperium fights wars of attrition or space marine tactics neither of which we wouldn't be able to do as successfully 
It would be like the game resistance except we would be slightly better at fighting back
When was the last time we fought an army armed with more advanced technology and better close combat skills?


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

their half plant right?

WEED KILLER! job done, :laugh:


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## malitov (Mar 18, 2010)

Considering the number of people fit for military service is right over a billion we'd have numbers. Plus this would be the perfect chance to slim down the prison numbers. Not to mention we don't know what kind of advanced, super, awesome weapons of destruction our world military's are creating in secret. 

The Orks however have sheer brute ferocity on their side and I'd not be surprised to see one pick up a wrecked turret off an Abrams and it be able to fire it just because it thinks it should. 

Next problem is morale. The media would all over this like stink on shit showing everyone and scaring the living shit out of people. Then you got pastor tom screaming about the end of days coming and well people are gonna start to say f it and run.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

They wouldn't get past the orbital defences that were beefed up 10k years ago in response to the Heresy. If they did manage too the fact that they were on the human home world would mean every space marine chapter,adeptus mechanicus,assassinorum operativie,inquisitorial force,ordo xenos,adeptus custode,battle sister,imperial guard,and titan legion would be summoned. It would be brutal and effeicient. The orks could never take terra unless like Horus they first weakened it's outlying power and forces.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

@Deadeye

This topic was about modern day earth, not 40k Terra. 

Hooray for threadromancy guys.


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## IronWarrior123 (Mar 30, 2011)

The Orks wouldn't stand a chance against Project Thor (Rods from God) 66 tonne Tungsten rods are deadly


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

IronWarrior123 said:


> The Orks wouldn't stand a chance against Project Thor (Rods from God) 66 tonne Tungsten rods are deadly


Unfortunetly we don't have the capability to do this yet. Also, this is how Orks arrive on world (except Roks are bigger). And finally... Double Thread Necro FTW.


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## Harriticus (Nov 10, 2010)

Whatever area this average Ork warband landed at would be hit by mass devastation and millions dead, but after the initial shock of the assault they'd get demolished. Ever see the movie Battle Los Angeles? Replace the aliens in that movie with the Orks and that's what the war would be like and how it'd generally go. Down to the people gathering at the alien (Ork) landing sight only to be gunned down when first contact is made.

It really depends on what kind of Ork assault though. Does the Warboss have good Mekboyz? Most Ork warbands don't have legions of Stompas, Fighta-Bommas, Dreads, etc.., it's just boyz with sluggas. If you had the kind of Ork warband that was in that Imperial Armour book however we'd suffer some very serious losses before they were defeated. We wouldn't lose unless it was Waaagh! level.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Harriticus said:


> Whatever area this average Ork warband landed at would be hit by mass devastation and millions dead, but after the initial shock of the assault they'd get demolished. Ever see the movie Battle Los Angeles? Replace the aliens in that movie with the Orks and that's what the war would be like and how it'd generally go.


It's been I while so I might be mistaken however aren't there two major flaws with this comparison? Namely: that the aliens are actually winning in LA until they take down the drone controller and Orks don't use drones (so no central command), and that the aliens are generally winning on the global scale.


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## Harriticus (Nov 10, 2010)

MEQinc said:


> It's been I while so I might be mistaken however aren't there two major flaws with this comparison? Namely: that the aliens are actually winning in LA until they take down the drone controller and Orks don't use drones (so no central command), and that the aliens are generally winning on the global scale.


Well I intended more for the actual setting of the movie: the situation in Los Angles. The country/military is shocked by a vicious alien army that suddenly lands in the middle in the city and starts killing everything. The aliens however aren't Independence Day level and prefer infantry vs infantry combat, and they can be killed and challenged with our existing military technology and only have a slight technological lead. Que in brutal urban infantry-based combat that would eventually lead to a local defender victory but only at great cost.

The drone thing is not accurate yeah, I just intended for the general situation and kind of fighting.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

Don't Orks burst into spores when they die?

How long would it take us to figure this out, or would it be too late by that time?


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Well, if an ork invasion force came on roks, we'd probably mistake them for actual asteroids and prepare accordingly (of course, we can't adequately prepare for an asteroid impact). That means military would be focused on providing aid and rescue after the dust settled. Once it looked like the "asteroids" were full of strange, green, porcine, hulking aliens, the hippies would gather on rooftops and hold up signs of peace and welcome. The sensible would be on their guard. Thus, the hippies would take the brunt of the slaughter, similar to Independence Day.

As in every good alien invasion movie, we'd be at a distinct disadvantage in terms of technology. Remember, ork tech is "primitive" by 40k standards, but we don't have anything close to 40k standards. If they have "primitive" tech, we have "LOL WTF IS THAT GONNA DO!? TICKLE THE GUY!?!?!?" tech. However, we'd learn to adapt and exploit the weaknesses of the orks - physically, there aren't many, so we'd have to outsmart them. Things like flame and explosive weapons would serve far better than comparatively weak ballistic weapons - if lasers have trouble cutting through ork flesh, tiny slivers of lead aren't going to do much better. So, give everyone a flamethrower and a satchel of grenades, and we might just be able to beat those shroomheads back to the 41st Millennium. Oh, yeah. We'd outnumber the orks, too, if indeed they only came with a million. I bet the humans of the Imperium wish they had that luxury.

Edit: Weapon, if indeed they release spores, I'd make sure to grow my own little ork garden.


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## Anfo (Jul 17, 2009)

Davidicus 40k said:


> If they have "primitive" tech, we have "LOL WTF IS THAT GONNA DO!? TICKLE THE GUY!?!?!?" tech.


:rofl:


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## Harriticus (Nov 10, 2010)

Most Ork tech isn't much more advanced than ours, at least not the kind we'd encounter in this scenario. The really frightening stuff Mekboyz can make that is leagues ahead of us: Teleportation, energy shields, tractor beams, lasers, etc. is fairly rare and only seen in larger Waaaagh!'s. Most Ork invasions/warbands are just mobs of Boyz with sluggas/Shootas/rokkits. 

Really if the OP had included that this million Ork army had some capable of Mekboyz we'd be in a much different situation.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Harriticus said:


> Well I intended more for the actual setting of the movie: the situation in Los Angles. The country/military is shocked by a vicious alien army that suddenly lands in the middle in the city and starts killing everything. The aliens however aren't Independence Day level and prefer infantry vs infantry combat, and they can be killed and challenged with our existing military technology and only have a slight technological lead.


Okay fair enough. Do note however that Orks do have access to some pretty spectacular peices of tech and are at least occasionally capable of orbital bombardment (when they remember that they can).



> Que in brutal urban infantry-based combat that would eventually lead to a local defender victory but only at great cost.


The problem here is that the moment an Ork lands on Earth, we lose home-field advantage (or at least part of it). Suddenly they are part of the biosphere and can reproduce while we fight them (humans are... unlikely to do the same). 40k has demonstrated that Ork infestations can be nearly impossible to eradicate, and that is for an advanced race that actually knows about the spore thing. Further, every single Ork is a fighter, born to kill. Can the same be said of humans?



Harriticus said:


> Really if the OP had included that this million Ork army had some capable of Mekboyz we'd be in a much different situation.


A million Orks is a pretty decent sized Waagh and it's coming from space so they clearly have a couple of Mekboyz up there. Plus Orks seem to adapt to their conditions, ie if they need Mekboyz then some will be born.


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## Brother Malleus (Dec 6, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> the best place for them to land, Africa


care to expand on this please?


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Brother Malleus said:


> care to expand on this please?


The best place for them to land would be Antarctica (sorry, polar life), because that would ensure the minimal amount of initial damage and we'd have time to prepare some kind of response. Africa is not bad, either, given the large tracts of relatively uninhabited land - at least, in the middle of the continent.


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## Harriticus (Nov 10, 2010)

No military in Africa could really stand up to them in an organized fashion either. State of just about every African army is pretty dismal, and that includes South America post-Apartheid.


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## stevey293 (Aug 16, 2011)

Have none of you seen war of the worlds just sneeze at them.

On a more serious note our nukes can hit things in space. I dont care what fluff says a 50cal to an unarmoured target puts it down. I've seen 50cal strikes first hand your not getting up. Onto the spore thing thats where the problem would be your goung to be fighting a long war there. In the end it will come down to biological weapons and scorched earth tactics.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

stevey293 said:


> On a more serious note our nukes can hit things in space.


No they can't. 



> I dont care what fluff says a 50cal to an unarmoured target puts it down. I've seen 50cal strikes first hand your not getting up.


A human isn't getting up sure, but Orks are something else entirely. They demonstrate a truely insane pain threshold and have been shown to get up and fight on after loosing limbs. Doubtless a 50cal shot to the head or throat will put one down but otherwise it's far from certain.


Also, another thing to bear in mind everybody. Orks arriving from space are likely going to wreck our satellite systems, even unintentionally. This will absolutely cripple our ability to respond as it will make our ability to co-ordinate globally, get intel on enemy movements and use our most powerful systems extremely limited.


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## Rethra (Jan 1, 2012)

Hilarious thread.

I guess that we could win the first wave of attack, and thats it.
Spores and Ork nature would slowly choke us. (Nuclear bombs would be more suicide then a solution, again cause of the spores)
On such a rainy planet all the moisture would slowly kill us, since the spores would turn in to a greentide bigger then the one million they started with.
Another thing to take into consideration is the nature of surviving orks getting bigger and bigger, and when you have an ork that have become some 4 to 5 meters tall and as much wide through enough fighting, a hundred attacking humans anno 2012 would probably seem to them like a flee infestation for a dog.

And if the Orks took down the first paint factory and got enough yellow and red paint, we are doomed 

And as somebody said, in 40000 a.d the best solution is exterminatus, so i cant really se us wining in 2012.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

This Thread still going?



MEQinc said:


> No they can't.


 Nasa sure can if we wanted. It would be prep involve tho.



MEQinc said:


> A human isn't getting up sure, but Orks are something else entirely. They demonstrate a truely insane pain threshold and have been shown to get up and fight on after loosing limbs. Doubtless a 50cal shot to the head or throat will put one down but otherwise it's far from certain.


I say this is true and BS. Some Fluff show Orks (mostly Nobs) taking a Bolter Shell to the skull and surviving. Yet in Many other Novels like Last Chancer series show Humans with knives stabbing orks to death with throat cuts, head jabs, and deep enough vitals. Your seriously going to suggest a 50cal that blows trucks apart is ineffective? Really?



MEQinc said:


> Also, another thing to bear in mind everybody. Orks arriving from space are likely going to wreck our satellite systems, even unintentionally. This will absolutely cripple our ability to respond as it will make our ability to co-ordinate globally, get intel on enemy movements and use our most powerful systems extremely limited.


This depends on if its a Fleet of Ork ships or just a super large Rok or 2? Also ever heard of how coordinated we were in WW2 or Korea? Even Vietnam? Morse Code anyone? Sats isnt the end all be all.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> Yet in Many other Novels like Last Chancer series show Humans with knives stabbing orks to death with throat cuts, head jabs, and deep enough vitals.


Whoever wrote this should get punched in the face, because they clearly have no idea concerning Ork biology and thus should not be writing about them. For fucks sakes, an Ork can survive without its freakin' head for short periods of time.

Edit: Also, I really can't believe this thread is still going. I made it as a joke just to get away from all the Space Marine Vs threads. But it's still going. Unbelievable.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Okay I feel like its my time to throw in an opinion, since this is one of the few threads which resurrection is okay in my book.

First off, a million orks compared to earth's 7 billion population is absolutely nothing. But then of course that includes civilians, children, old people, hippies ect ect. So taking that out of the equation, we have of course significantly less people to defend. However, according to this link, the US army is about 1.5 million on active duty... add in every country and number wise the orks are in a state of ass rape. But according to ork biology, a regular boy is roughly twice the strength and durability of a man if not more so depending on size (but lets use this as a basic medium). But still that wouldn't give them that much of an edge against the sheer numbers we have.

Second, I believe that most people are uniformed about how good are weapon technology is. The common American Tank (M1 Abrams) is equivalent if not better than a standard Leman Russ (GASP!) without all of the fancy sci-fi trinkets. Plus add in all of the other support artillery and other fuck-awesome military vehicles, I say we are in a very healthy position in the armory department, meaning that we have very solid and deadly armored core against the majority of ork vehicles. (I'm excluding Squiggoths on this because there just fucking stupid plus we can blast the shit out of it with our air force.)

Third, our troops are armed with better gear than the imperial guard. I know, many people are going to bitch in return that lasguns are super deadly compared to what we have... but its just plain fact that there not. An AK-47 is better by a mile than that stupid flash light. This in itself shows that the troops the orks are facing against are better equipped. While of course Imperial Guardsmen have balls of iron so as 4chan's /tg/ jokes with, but todays troops have balls of steel.

So after reading this incoherent ramble, I guess the point Im getting across is that if a million orks invaded earth with 40k technology, they would still get their ass smashed.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> Nasa sure can if we wanted.


 Nope. There is not a single weapon on earth capable of reaching orbit. 



> Your seriously going to suggest a 50cal that blows trucks apart is ineffective? Really?


I said that the effect of a fifty cal is uncertain. As you yourself point out Orks have been shown to survive bolter shells, which are more dangerous. If an Ork can survive a bolter shell (which they can) it is quite possible that they can survive 50cal shots.



> Also ever heard of how coordinated we were in WW2 or Korea? Even Vietnam? Morse Code anyone? Sats isnt the end all be all.


Satellites are the be all and end all of our ability to launch nuclear weapons or co-ordinate our forces on a global scale. Note how little we new about enemy movements, fortifications or terrain during all of the wars you mentioned.


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## moswantd407 (Jul 7, 2011)

Who says Orks coming to earth has to be a bad thing? If Orks are edible we solved a world hunger crisis. If not why not enslave them? Squiggoth rides anyone? I think a spray bottle of anti-fungal treatment and we will will be fine if not better off than before.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

MEQinc said:


> Nope. There is not a single weapon on earth capable of reaching orbit.
> 
> I said that the effect of a fifty cal is uncertain. As you yourself point out Orks have been shown to survive bolter shells, which are more dangerous. If an Ork can survive a bolter shell (which they can) it is quite possible that they can survive 50cal shots.
> 
> ...


Any Weapon / Bomb can be launch via Shuttle or Rocket.... hows this impoosible to you?

Fifty Cal shoots more rounds down range than a single shot bolter. Effect is No Ork Body. Unless you compare 50.Cal Rifle.

So we cant mount any kind of attack or resistance or anything without Sats? You do realize Sats play a very small roll in todays Millitary operations? When we go out on patrols my Platoon throw the Sat Phones and Gps away and break out the Map/Compass and Green Gear (Radios) that go above beyond 50 miles without interference from terrain. radios on the ship go 120+ Miles. Weres the mass breakdown in coms here. All of North America is covered and we still have Morse Code that travels world wide. Plz.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> Any Weapon / Bomb can be launch via Shuttle or Rocket.... hows this impoosible to you?


Well first of all, the weapons themselves are not capable of entering orbit which is what I said. Secondly, rockets are expensive and non-recoverable. This means that the number that exist currently is quite limited as no agency is going to have them just lying around. They are also quite complex to create and launch. This means that we will not be able to create and launch large numbers quickly. What this means is that given perhaps a week to prepare (which is a wide window considering that warp travel can get them much closer without any possibility of detection) we will be able to launch perhaps a dozen of these modified rockets globally (assuming of course that every nation with space-flight capabilities immediately recognizes the threat the fleet or Rok posses and acts in a unified manner). So now you've created a minefield to cover the entire globe (because the Orks can reposition their craft we have no way of knowing where they will choose to land) consisting of 12 mines. If you think that's going to be effective against a fleet or a continent sized Rok, you need to rethink the capabilities of spacecraft in 40k.



> Fifty Cal shoots more rounds down range than a single shot bolter. Effect is No Ork Body. Unless you compare 50.Cal Rifle.


1) Bolters are semi-automatic and rapid fire.
2) Heavy Bolters are fully automatic.
3) WE DON'T KNOW THAT A 50.CAL CAN DO WHAT YOU CLAIM. If an armour-piercing explosive round can have zero effect on an Ork (and it can) than we cannot say with any certainty that multiple 50.cal shots will have more of an effect.



> So we cant mount any kind of attack or resistance or anything without Sats? You do realize Sats play a very small roll in todays Millitary operations?


I'm not really talking about our ability to communicate on the squad or even regimental level (though this will be hampered, wired and radio communications have limits to range and speed that sat communication does not) but rather our ability to coordinate on a global level, such as in the event of an alien invasion. Our imaging technology is dependent on satellites and our ability to respond quickly and accurately to enemy movements is dependent on our imaging technology. Without satellite imaging we have no way of knowing how the enemy has altered the terrain (which arrival from orbit will do) or how they are dispersed through this terrain without actually deploying units to this area. This is very hazardous and gives the Orks a definite edge. Further multiple craft entering atmosphere and landing hard on the surface will have a decidedly negative effect on atmospheric communications (such as the radios you were talking about) due to their scrambling of the Earth's magnetic field and the dust being kicked up. One of the Ghost's novels (_Armour of Contempt _I believe) shows the effects of an IG bulk landing on an atmosphere and it involves wild storms, electirical surges and pressure changes; all of which will limit the effectiveness of radios.


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## Rethra (Jan 1, 2012)

you would probably also have a bunch of apocalyptic loonies helping orks, thinking they are god send


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

MEQinc said:


> Well first of all, the weapons themselves are not capable of entering orbit which is what I said. Secondly, rockets are expensive and non-recoverable. This means that the number that exist currently is quite limited as no agency is going to have them just lying around. They are also quite complex to create and launch. This means that we will not be able to create and launch large numbers quickly. What this means is that given perhaps a week to prepare (which is a wide window considering that warp travel can get them much closer without any possibility of detection) we will be able to launch perhaps a dozen of these modified rockets globally (assuming of course that every nation with space-flight capabilities immediately recognizes the threat the fleet or Rok posses and acts in a unified manner). So now you've created a minefield to cover the entire globe (because the Orks can reposition their craft we have no way of knowing where they will choose to land) consisting of 12 mines. If you think that's going to be effective against a fleet or a continent sized Rok, you need to rethink the capabilities of spacecraft in 40k.


I never said Launching missils or nukes into space was a effective tatic. I simply wanted to prove a point that we CAN get weapons into orbit .





MEQinc said:


> 1) Bolters are semi-automatic and rapid fire.
> 2) Heavy Bolters are fully automatic.
> 3) WE DON'T KNOW THAT A 50.CAL CAN DO WHAT YOU CLAIM. If an armour-piercing explosive round can have zero effect on an Ork (and it can) than we cannot say with any certainty that multiple 50.cal shots will have more of an effect.


First off a Bolter Shell in all fluff shows it can blow the human body apart via Explosion. Hit in the head and head is gone. Torso hits show torso destroyed. Same with a 50 Cal. So damage wise Bolter fluff shows same damage as a Browning. Fluff shows Bolters dont fire 800 rounds a clip. Infact 90% of SM fluff shows Single Shot kills. Brownings dont have a Single Shot, its full auto and its does the same damage as Bolter fluff shows. If I can cut a steel pickup truck in 2 with my 50 Cal and kill humans without even hitting them with the actual bullet, then I should do as much damage if not more with my Browning Machine Gun. Thats not even including Depleted Uranium rounds. Thats just sick and wicked.





MEQinc said:


> I'm not really talking about our ability to communicate on the squad or even regimental level (though this will be hampered, wired and radio communications have limits to range and speed that sat communication does not) but rather our ability to coordinate on a global level, such as in the event of an alien invasion. Our imaging technology is dependent on satellites and our ability to respond quickly and accurately to enemy movements is dependent on our imaging technology. Without satellite imaging we have no way of knowing how the enemy has altered the terrain (which arrival from orbit will do) or how they are dispersed through this terrain without actually deploying units to this area. This is very hazardous and gives the Orks a definite edge. Further multiple craft entering atmosphere and landing hard on the surface will have a decidedly negative effect on atmospheric communications (such as the radios you were talking about) due to their scrambling of the Earth's magnetic field and the dust being kicked up. One of the Ghost's novels (_Armour of Contempt _I believe) shows the effects of an IG bulk landing on an atmosphere and it involves wild storms, electirical surges and pressure changes; all of which will limit the effectiveness of radios.


This is true, as you sum up in the top we can still communicate and organize our troops. The enemies movements and initial landing would be in question till air recon can scope out whats what.


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)

.50 caliber API rounds are more then capable of absolutely wrecking modern-day tank armor. To suggest that an average Ork wouldn't be killed when properly fired upon by a .50 caliber system is to suggest that they have a skeletal system denser then modern tank armor, and that they can withstand (at a minimum) being struck by something that delivers 65,000 lbs per square inch of pressure. That's just silly.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

It makes you wonder why the Imperium ever thought lasguns were more effective than 20th century machine guns.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> It makes you wonder why the Imperium ever thought lasguns were more effective than 20th century machine guns.


Efficient. Not necessarily as effective. 

Solid slugs require constant production of ammunition. Las weapons require a battery that can be recharged.


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)

Serpion5 said:


> Efficient. Not necessarily as effective.
> 
> Solid slugs require constant production of ammunition. Las weapons require a battery that can be recharged.


Yeah. "Children discuss strategy, professionals discuss logistics." Being able to give a soldier seven batteries, and knowing that he'll never, ever need an ammo resupply...I can't even begin to explain how massive an advantage that is. I'm the ammo NCOIC for my Troop, and dealing with ammo for just a few platoons can be a pain in the neck. 

Also, a laser gun is 100% accurate (as there is no recoil), and has no need to be zeroed.


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Keep in mind that the Guard has plenty of solid slug weaponry as well (i.e. heavy stubbers), but for supplying individual soldiers, the lasgun proved to be the most sensible option.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

It seems to suck ass against Orks though unless fired en-masse in which case even bb guns would probably prove effective.


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## Lord Solar Macharius (Oct 5, 2010)




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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Anyone who has ever played Dark Heresy effectively will know, flat out, that a stub rifle (equivalent of an M16 or something along those lines) is a *shitload* better than a lasgun. A shitload.

However, that's in a single-person scenario. Kitting up a whole army requires the ammo - which is something you just don't need for a lasgun. You just charge that bitch up wherever you find a power source (and from the fluff, it can be charged pretty much anywhere and even by a moron).

Getting a crapload of ammo is not as easily done...

Going by accurate fluff (and the DH games are pretty good on that score), if you could kit out an entire Guard army with autoguns, they'd do a crapload more damage. Then again, they'd also run out of ammo in, like, 10 minutes...


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Who Cares if a M16 runs out of Ammo before a Lasgun. We as EARTH use M16s, 50.Cals, AKs, .45s, and Mark 19s that do a HELL of alot more damage than Lasguns. Were like a Army of Storm Troopers vs a Ork Waaaagh. Were better train than the WW1 trained Imperial Guard forces and were armed as well.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

And yet the IG have countless billions of troops, plasma guns, heavy bolters, lascannons, meltaguns, orbital bombardment, super-heavy battle tanks, sentinels, titans, power fists, meltabombs, krak grenades, and a whole host of enough tasty shit that completely puts anything in Earth's arsenal to utter shame.

We would get fucked completely by any IG force.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Not only are they better armed, they are tougher mentally and physically given how much more dangerous the WH40k universe is.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> Who Cares if a M16 runs out of Ammo before a Lasgun. We as EARTH use M16s, 50.Cals, AKs, .45s, and Mark 19s that do a HELL of alot more damage than Lasguns. Were like a Army of Storm Troopers vs a Ork Waaaagh. Were better train than the WW1 trained Imperial Guard forces and were armed as well.


You can't just lump every Guard regiment as a 'world war one style' force. There are innumerable different kinds of regiments from different worlds. You have light infantry, artillery, heavy infantry, special forces, air drop, armoured, super heavy, mounted, mechanised regiments and more besides. Each will be equipped differently too (other than the ubiquitous lasgun- but even then there are different makes and models).

Some will simply be used as cannon fodder or trained in world war one style tactics. Other will use cutting edge tactics and equipment. Don't underestimate the Guard, they are the Imperium's greatest fighting force. 

And an M16 more powerful than a lasgun? Can a M16 blow a man's arm off? A Lasgun can.
The Imperial Guard have .50 cals too; heavy stubbers, an incredibly common weapon. Then there's all the more advanced stuff which puts anything we have to shame.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Baltar said:


> And yet the IG have countless billions of troops, plasma guns, heavy bolters, lascannons, meltaguns, orbital bombardment, super-heavy battle tanks, sentinels, titans, power fists, meltabombs, krak grenades, and a whole host of enough tasty shit that completely puts anything in Earth's arsenal to utter shame.
> 
> We would get fucked completely by any IG force.



Hell no we wont, we would get Fucked by the Imperial Navy ALONE. The IG were more than a match. Were better armed, in most countries better train and armored, and in terms of Tanks we beat the LR everyday. They have Lascannons and Plasma that blows up in their face more often than not. We have Mark 19s and 50 cals. Difference is we have more Mark 19s and 50 cals than they do Plasma or Lascannons. Every IG fluff I read shows like 1 in a 1000 with either of those weapons. They usaully carry Multi Lasers, Lasguns, and Autoguns.



Malus Darkblade said:


> Not only are they better armed, they are tougher mentally and physically given how much more dangerous the WH40k universe is.


 Again better armed? Yeah right. Mentally Tougher? Again yeah right. I think Somalions and suicidal Terroist are mentally tougher than alot of the IG. They need Commissars for a reason. Krieg, Catachan, and Cadia are the only mentally tough Guard I can think of, most Novels with PDFs and a no name IG force break on the sight of Orks. There is no fact out there fluff wise saying their menatlly tougher.



Rems said:


> You can't just lump every Guard regiment as a 'world war one style' force. There are innumerable different kinds of regiments from different worlds. You have light infantry, artillery, heavy infantry, special forces, air drop, armoured, super heavy, mounted, mechanised regiments and more besides. Each will be equipped differently too (other than the ubiquitous lasgun- but even then there are different makes and models).
> 
> Some will simply be used as cannon fodder or trained in world war one style tactics. Other will use cutting edge tactics and equipment. Don't underestimate the Guard, they are the Imperium's greatest fighting force.
> 
> ...


So far you make the best argument. But some things are wrong with your M16 assessment. M16 can blow your arm off and has before. AK definatly can. Heavy Stubbers are more like Heavy Machine Guns, in know way does any fluff show its the same 50. Caliber of death that we use. More like a 240 Bravo at best.... witch we also have alot of.As for the most advance stuff in the form of what, Plasma, who cares we have rockets that will fly up a Coomand Squads ass. Our Missil Tech is light years from the simple Missils the IG use. 

Sorry there is no way IG could beat us in a even fight, the only reason IG ever win is through 1) Numbers 2) SM/Mechanicus intervention 3)Imperial Navy 4) Plot Device.

10,000 IG vs 10,000 Marines I give it to the Marines. 1000 LRs vs 1000 our Tanks would be a EASY victory for our side. Like I said were more like a army of Storm Troopers vs the "common" throw as many troops at a problem till it goes away IG.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

IG vs us in an even fight? 

Warlock, how the hell do you figure "even?" 

What are your criteria for this hypothetical "even" matchup?


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> Hell no we wont, we would get Fucked by the Imperial Navy ALONE. The IG were more than a match. Were better armed, in most countries better train and armored, and in terms of Tanks we beat the LR everyday. They have Lascannons and Plasma that blows up in their face more often than not. We have Mark 19s and 50 cals. Difference is we have more Mark 19s and 50 cals than they do Plasma or Lascannons. Every IG fluff I read shows like 1 in a 1000 with either of those weapons. They usaully carry Multi Lasers, Lasguns, and Autoguns.
> 
> 
> Again better armed? Yeah right. Mentally Tougher? Again yeah right. I think Somalions and suicidal Terroist are mentally tougher than alot of the IG. They need Commissars for a reason. Krieg, Catachan, and Cadia are the only mentally tough Guard I can think of, most Novels with PDFs and a no name IG force break on the sight of Orks. There is no fact out there fluff wise saying their menatlly tougher.


While plasma weaponry is rare (except if your supplied by Ryza or Mars) las cannons are very common. They are a standard piece of anti tank equipment. As are Heavy Bolters which outclass 50. cals. 

Better armoured? I doubt it. Flak armour is at worst equivalent to modern day armour. It can protect from both las shots and solid projectiles. Then's there's carapace which easily protects from the above and is common enough for entire regiments to be outfitted with it. Then you have all the more estoric armour like energy shields (from a regiment that was in the 3rd ed codex), various types of glass style armours, super advanced chain and scale and who knows what else. 




> So far you make the best argument. But some things are wrong with your M16 assessment. M16 can blow your arm off and has before. AK definatly can. Heavy Stubbers are more like Heavy Machine Guns, in know way does any fluff show its the same 50. Caliber of death that we use. More like a 240 Bravo at best.... witch we also have alot of.As for the most advance stuff in the form of what, Plasma, who cares we have rockets that will fly up a Coomand Squads ass. Our Missil Tech is light years from the simple Missils the IG use.


I didn't know an M16 could do that so there you go. But doesn't that then render an M16 and Lasgun more or less equal in terms of damage potential but with the lasgun winning in terms of logistics and ease of use + maintenance. 

You know the Imperium possess guided missiles and rockets and such as well right? Again you can't everything in the Imperium by one standard, it's too vast and varied for that. There are dozens of different patterns and variations on equipment etc, some of which will be relatively simple others will be incredibly advanced. What a regiment uses will depend on it's homeworld and Munitorium supplies. 



> Sorry there is no way IG could beat us in a even fight, the only reason IG ever win is through 1) Numbers 2) SM/Mechanicus intervention 3)Imperial Navy 4) Plot Device.
> 
> 10,000 IG vs 10,000 Marines I give it to the Marines. 1000 LRs vs 1000 our Tanks would be a EASY victory for our side. Like I said were more like a army of Storm Troopers vs the "common" throw as many troops at a problem till it goes away IG.


I wholeheartedly disagree that a suitable regiment of Imperial Guard couldn't defeat an equivalent present day earth force but even if they could why would the Imperium fight fare?

Again you use a blank standard. The Guard doesn't win every victory by pure numbers. Some regiments (such as Vahallan Infantry regiments) do but it's a fallacy to say they all do. What about the Elysians, Storm Troopers or Catachans? Smaller specialist regiments who time and time again achieve victory when outnumbered. 

I say again there are a bewildering array of regiments and the worlds they come from each with their own equipment and fighting styles. What about a tech guard regiment sent out from Ryza, one of the most prominent forgeworlds and one which produces large numbers of plasma weapons. Such a regiment would have incredibly advanced weaponry and armour and outmatch any of our infantry. Whilst a somewhat exceptional case the point still stands, they are just one of the many various regiments of the Guard an organisation so vast and varied you can't set any singly standard for it or just assume a regiment's capabilities. 

Space Marine intervention is a very rare thing. They only engage in the most vital or most desperate of campaigns and battles. Most guardsmen never see one. They achieve victory all the same. 

Our tanks could doubtfully even penetrate a Land Raiders armour. It can regularly withstand multiple lascannon or plasma weapon strikes without damage. We have no comparable armour or weapons to that. 

Make no mistake the Imperial Guard is a force of trained professionals capable of standing up to and defeating whatever an actively hostile galaxy throws at them. There wouldn't be an Imperium otherwise. 


Given that the Imperium is embroiled in numerous wars and wins the majority of them (or there wouldn't be an Imperium) it defies belief that the Imperial Guard is as poorly trained, led and equipped as you seem to be suggesting. The Imperium has existed for 10,000 years of continuous warfare, the Imperial Guard must be effective.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Wow, someone doesn't know their fluff.

IG tech is literally millenia ahead of ours.

Missile guidance? They just bomb the fuck out of you from orbit. Blessing the machine spirit of missiles that have their own AI guidance system.

Our shit is primitive by comparison.

Someone on here is clearly an armed forces fanboy...


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> Again better armed? Yeah right. Mentally Tougher? Again yeah right. I think Somalions and suicidal Terroist are mentally tougher than alot of the IG. They need Commissars for a reason. Krieg, Catachan, and Cadia are the only mentally tough Guard I can think of, most Novels with PDFs and a no name IG force break on the sight of Orks. There is no fact out there fluff wise saying their menatlly tougher.


They need commissars because they are facing huge Orks, giants in armor who fear nothing, billions of multi-limbed Tyranids and nightmares that come to life. 

Also commissars exist today by the way, they weren't made up by GW.

You don't think soldiers in the real world would run at the sight of thousands of muscle-bound Orks? lol

And you shouldn't clump up Somalians as a whole as terrorists, that's just wrong in so many ways.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Some of the guard are serious veterans. Not to mention that many of the guard legions have been fighting non-stop for decades in campaigns across dozens of worlds and across terrain and environments that varies hugely, and against enemies that are all completely different.

Guard would rip us a new one.


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

earth couldn't beat more than 10 million guardsmen, even without orbital attacks, theres bound to be a few nations going, man their humans, and either surrendering or joining, then we would be at war with our selves as well. we could survive but we couldn't win.


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)

A 5.56mm round by itself can absolutely not 'blow someone's arm off.' That is simply not factually correct; the odds of it happening are so low as to be statistically impossible. A 7.62mm round might have greater success in that area, but again, when it comes to literally dismembering an individual, you'll be needing a weapon that fires a larger caliber then either. 

As for the damage done by a lasgun versus that done by an 'autogun,' which I suppose we're assuming is firing the equivalent to a 5.56 or 7.62 round...I honestly can only go off of fluff descriptions. I've never played any of the Warhammer roleplaying games, so perhaps someone who has can shed some light on the different characteristics of the two weapons as presented. As far as actual physics goes, I would assume that shooting an Ork with a laser beam to the chest would be at least as effective as shooting with with a 7.62mm round; you'd have flash-vaporization, causing an explosion of some kind, resulting in massive tissue damage and some sort of 'knock-back.' While probably not the same as 59,000+ PSI, you're still putting down your target.


And as for the moral of Guardsmen...let's face it. It's sort of a game mechanic, isn't it? Giving them all low moral, the need for special units to keep them all in line, etc? In modern warfare, soldiers fleeing the battlefield is extremely rare. Now, I understand that in the case of fighting certain enemies, such as daemons or Tyranids, that you might have more of an issue with soldier's fleeing. But I certainly imagine that if our modern armies were forced to fight against Orks, WITHOUT the strict structure of the Imperial Guard, you wouldn't see more breaking and running then you'd expect to see.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

The autogun and lasgun in the roleplaying game (DH) do almost identical damage. The damage type is different because one is impact damage and one is heat damage (one blows limbs apart and the other has a chance of setting the target on fire).

The autogun is far superior in terms of raw damage output because it can shoot full auto. That means there is a substantial chance of hitting your enemy with a whole load of rounds in one action - it is a poor man's boltgun in that game. In fact, having used both heavily, I would rather have the autogun with a character that has higher stats - mainly because the cost of boltgun ammo for a normal human is unafordable, and with well placed shots you can do just as much damage with the autogun. The boltgun (standard variant) doesn't do full auto, so you are relying on pure stoppage power which doesn't always pay off. The only time when it is better is when dealing with an armoured opponent - which is when it totally shines.

As for the lasgun, it has huge benefits. It can be recharged pretty much anywhere, it doesn't jam (the autogun can jam and does regularly), and it's very cheap. You can also club the shit out of people with it (although you can with the autogun too). The lasgun benefits from different variants, too. A long las for example is beast.

The lasgun is the better standard issue choice, but an autogun is serious damage. I think comparing it to an M16 is probably unfair. The caliber is probably much higher considering the damage it can do.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Just read that we'd apparently beat the LR every day. You must be high.

The LR is enormous, has armour that would just laugh at anything we can throw at it, and has weapons that would just cream all over our tanks.

Pure jokes, this thread.


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## The Meddler (Sep 25, 2010)

This thread has sort of derailed from Orks to the Imperium. Getting things back on track, us winning would mainly depend on how prepared we are. If we detect them coming a week before they arrive (maybe their warp drives failed) then we might be able to prepare enough to fight them off. If they just swarmed us and only gave us a few hours to prepare, they would cause a lot more damage. Also, there's the fact that most people so far have assumed that everyone will work together as a unified force. In reality, there will be arguments, fights, with only a few countries really trusting each other (Nth America and most of Europe probably). This would hamper any attempts to fight back.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Rems said:


> While plasma weaponry is rare (except if your supplied by Ryza or Mars) las cannons are very common. They are a standard piece of anti tank equipment. As are Heavy Bolters which outclass 50. cals.


Heavy Bolters would be on par with 50. Cals, However it would take a Auto Cannon to match our Mark 19.



Rems said:


> Better armoured? I doubt it. Flak armour is at worst equivalent to modern day armour. It can protect from both las shots and solid projectiles. Then's there's carapace which easily protects from the above and is common enough for entire regiments to be outfitted with it. Then you have all the more estoric armour like energy shields (from a regiment that was in the 3rd ed codex), various types of glass style armours, super advanced chain and scale and who knows what else.


Energy Shields? Really going to bring the uber rare gear thats hardly EVER seen in Fluff Novels? Also Capraces are as tough as Dragon Armore. Also for all you clueless people out there that is real Body Armore not DnD shit.



Rems said:


> I didn't know an M16 could do that so there you go. But doesn't that then render an M16 and Lasgun more or less equal in terms of damage potential but with the lasgun winning in terms of logistics and ease of use + maintenance.


Agreed.



Rems said:


> You know the Imperium possess guided missiles and rockets and such as well right? Again you can't everything in the Imperium by one standard, it's too vast and varied for that. There are dozens of different patterns and variations on equipment etc, some of which will be relatively simple others will be incredibly advanced. What a regiment uses will depend on it's homeworld and Munitorium supplies.



Again you bring in the uber rarely seen tech the IG can throw. I speak of Novels of Soul Drinkers, Storm of Iron, Last Chancers Trilogy, and Worb Bearers Novels where your uber awsome IG tech is nowhere to be seen. Its there never said they arnt, but there uber rare.



Rems said:


> I wholeheartedly disagree that a suitable regiment of Imperial Guard couldn't defeat an equivalent present day earth force but even if they could why would the Imperium fight fare?



Never said they would fight fare. Said they win thru numbers, Navy, or SMs. Never by fighting fair.



Rems said:


> Again you use a blank standard. The Guard doesn't win every victory by pure numbers. Some regiments (such as Vahallan Infantry regiments) do but it's a fallacy to say they all do. What about the Elysians, Storm Troopers or Catachans? Smaller specialist regiments who time and time again achieve victory when outnumbered.



I also pointed out Catachans are more badass than most Guard. Elysians are pretty decent to like our Army Rangers. Storm Troopers is a general term.



Rems said:


> I say again there are a bewildering array of regiments and the worlds they come from each with their own equipment and fighting styles. What about a tech guard regiment sent out from Ryza, one of the most prominent forgeworlds and one which produces large numbers of plasma weapons. Such a regiment would have incredibly advanced weaponry and armour and outmatch any of our infantry. Whilst a somewhat exceptional case the point still stands, they are just one of the many various regiments of the Guard an organisation so vast and varied you can't set any singly standard for it or just assume a regiment's capabilities.


Almost (from a fluff point) IG regiments that are not the name ones like in the Dex are the same. Sorry to point it out but most Novels of no top name IG function the damn near same.



Rems said:


> Space Marine intervention is a very rare thing. They only engage in the most vital or most desperate of campaigns and battles. Most guardsmen never see one. They achieve victory all the same.


SMs be highly needed to take our military.



Rems said:


> Our tanks could doubtfully even penetrate a Land Raiders armour. It can regularly withstand multiple lascannon or plasma weapon strikes without damage. We have no comparable armour or weapons to that.



Land Raider!!!! HAHAHA LOL getting desperate to bring in SM Tanks in a debate of vs IG.



Rems said:


> Make no mistake the Imperial Guard is a force of trained professionals capable of standing up to and defeating whatever an actively hostile galaxy throws at them. There wouldn't be an Imperium otherwise.


Sry but disagree with but a few name IG regiments.



Rems said:


> Given that the Imperium is embroiled in numerous wars and wins the majority of them (or there wouldn't be an Imperium) it defies belief that the Imperial Guard is as poorly trained, led and equipped as you seem to be suggesting. The Imperium has existed for 10,000 years of continuous warfare, the Imperial Guard must be effective.


Look at this Orks vs Earth Debate.... the alot who know our Military capabilities seem think we can win this without IG tech. Just saying.



Baltar said:


> Wow, someone doesn't know their fluff.


Lets look at the intelligent pointers of yours shall we.



Baltar said:


> IG tech is literally millenia ahead of ours.


Yeah and still they suck :laugh:.



Baltar said:


> Missile guidance? They just bomb the fuck out of you from orbit. Blessing the machine spirit of missiles that have their own AI guidance system.


 Dont pay much attention to the argument do ya? I was expressing IG vs us not Imperial Navy. Its totally 2 different things. Theres a bit of fluff for ya.k:



Baltar said:


> Someone on here is clearly an armed forces fanboy...


Well someone here never been in the military or knows a foxhole from a asshole. Dont be ignorant, its frowned upon.



Malus Darkblade said:


> Also commissars exist today by the way, they weren't made up by GW.


Anbody who know of WW2 and how Russians charged the Gun pits know of where GW got Commissars from... duh.



Malus Darkblade said:


> And you shouldn't clump up Somalians as a whole as terrorists, that's just wrong in so many ways.


I nver did clump them together I made the difference between the 2. Between you and me the Somalians are dumber than the Terrost.:wink:



SonOfStan said:


> A 5.56mm round by itself can absolutely not 'blow someone's arm off.' That is simply not factually correct; the odds of it happening are so low as to be statistically impossible. A 7.62mm round might have greater success in that area, but again, when it comes to literally dismembering an individual, you'll be needing a weapon that fires a larger caliber then either.


 You never seen a 5.56 take the arm off a 14 year old?! No? Well ofcourse not you wouldnt made that comment. Some of those shit bag terrost have skinny arms and the Teens definatly do.



SonOfStan said:


> And as for the moral of Guardsmen...let's face it. It's sort of a game mechanic, isn't it? Giving them all low moral, the need for special units to keep them all in line, etc? In modern warfare, soldiers fleeing the battlefield is extremely rare. Now, I understand that in the case of fighting certain enemies, such as daemons or Tyranids, that you might have more of an issue with soldier's fleeing. But I certainly imagine that if our modern armies were forced to fight against Orks, WITHOUT the strict structure of the Imperial Guard, you wouldn't see more breaking and running then you'd expect to see.


I doubt it Orcs are not the freaking scary. Most guys who see Orks of 40k think there dumb and silly looking green Guerillas. Silly. Nids and Daemon yeah but not Orks. As you said Modern Troops fleeing is a RARE sight. Im going by that. IMO...



Baltar said:


> Just read that we'd apparently beat the LR every day. You must be high.


Leman Russes are silly WW2 tank schematics.... are u your HIGH?



SonOfStan said:


> The LR is enormous, has armour that would just laugh at anything we can throw at it, and has weapons that would just cream all over our tanks.


No its not thats a Land Raider which belong to SMs.... not Guard.... do you know what fluff is?:laugh:



SonOfStan said:


> Pure jokes, this thread.


And you kept me entertain for sure LOL.



Now as for the Orks again vs all the world. Orks loose bad. Earth for the PWN.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Clearly do not know ANY fluff AT ALL if you think a heavy bolter is equivalent of a 50. cal. NONE at all. That would be like a heavy stubber.

A heavy bolter fires missiles. Rockets. Self-propelled rockets that explode upon impact. Armour piercing rockets. Boom. There is no Earth equivalent. At all. Maybe some sort of rapid fire M203 made into a machine gun.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Baltar said:


> Clearly do not know ANY fluff AT ALL if you think a heavy bolter is equivalent of a 50. cal. NONE at all. That would be like a heavy stubber.
> 
> A heavy bolter fires missiles. Rockets. Self-propelled rockets that explode upon impact. Armour piercing rockets. Boom. There is no Earth equivalent. At all. Maybe some sort of rapid fire M203 made into a machine gun.


LOL again you make me laugh. Ever heard of a Mark 19? Oh wait thats a no since you dont know what it is. Look it up. Seriously tho your Propelled Rockets do as much damage as a .50cal. Read the fluff. They have trouble penetrating Power Armore, hell in some fluff SMs take a hit with no protection and Ork Trukks blast thru with no hinderence. You know what... here educate yourself.











Hell give the Barret Depleted Uranium and it becomes a Tank Buster. More than any Bolter Round has shown in fluff. You can learn too by joining the Military or using Google.

OH and heres the bigger better Bolter.





Just curious what fluff refrence and novels can you use to back up your argument? Just curious since all you ever say is "your wrong".


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Wow. Deluded.

Heavy stubber = 50. cal machine gun.

Bolter = no Earth equivalent. It is way beyond anything our technology can possibly produce.

I smell armed forces fanboyism.

The IG are a fighting force from the 41st millenium. Millenia ahead of us in training, technology, and pure numbers. Their tanks are colossal. Much larger than ours, and much more heavily armed and armoured. Their weapons are better by leagues. Their armour is... well 41st millenium...

This is before we even get onto all of the elite fighting forces the IG have. Troops that have, in their lives, more experience in fighting than a whole brigade of Earth soldiers, against dozens of different alien enemies.

We would be an utter joke to them.

We would be like a pdf force armed with primitive weapons and armour.

I'd give us about 2 days before they'd conquered the whole planet with no issue. They rock on up, drop a shit ton of bombs. Shoot down our pissy, primitive aircraft with their absolute beast fighter bombers. Send a few orbital strikes around the place. Jam all of our absolutely stone age communications. Drop a few billion solders, tanks, titans, and other assorted badasses onto the planet. Wipe out our handful of shittily armed and armoured troops (who have barely any experience in global combat when compared with most IG forces).

Yeah. Two days is optimistic. Let's say they'd have it pretty much squared away within the first 24 hours.

Anyway - successful troll is trolling. I have a strong suspicion of US forces fanboy patrol.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Baltar said:


> Wow. Deluded.
> 
> Heavy stubber = 50. cal machine gun.
> 
> ...


I smell 40k scifi fanboyism. I also know how you constantly mention things like Imperial Navy, Titans, and SMs. Thats pathetic as I have said 3-4 times now im looking at IG and IG only. They dont have SMs, Imperial Cruisers, or Titans. Also again your argument is base on "your wrong, cause I say Fanboyism" rather than actual proof or fluff sources. Its okay, I gave you the tools to educate yourself. As for the Millitary Fanboyism, I guess you cant understand since you play a game of toy soilders fighting wars and I am one in real wars. Hey we all need hippies to keep the peace. :victory: Peace Man.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Fluff references?

You want me to give you actual fluff references to back up the fact that, for example, a bolter is a fucking billion times more advanced than a shitty MK-19...?

Here is an image of a *standard* bolt round:










It's enormous. Makes out shitty bullets look like toys.

The heavy bolter shoots bigger rounds.

It is described as using "fist sized rounds" in codex imperial guard. .50 cal my ass.

Also, I never mentioned SM once. Ever. A handful would fuck us up no question, and take no casualties.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Fist size... thats like any 50.cal Browning Round or Mark 19 Round. 
Mark 19 Round is about as big. Hell a 50 Cal is just as Big. 

Also you kept saying I knew know fluff based on a made up comment on Land Raiders vs our Tanks. Soooo.... yeah you mention SMs.... duh.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

A standard bolt round (not a heavy bolter) is .75 cal. All fluff can be cited, if you really need it pointed out. It's also an explosive round with a depleted uranium core and an armour piercing tip (for piercing armour produced in the 41st millenium - our amour is like paper by comparison).

A heavy bolter fires .998 cal rounds, same explosive charge and depleted core.










That is a 1:1 scale marine. He is holding a standard boltgun. The heavy bolter is far, far, far bigger.

It makes a .50 cal look like a water pistol.

Troll times is good troll. Feed it.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Just a clarification, but the heavy bolted fires a 1.00 (I round) caliber explosive round. Saying it is comparable to a .50 is slightly misleading. It more like of you took two .50 round, taped them to a piece of dinomite and added a rocket for shits and giggles.

Oh, and just to give an idea, that is about 25mm.... I think. That was me mental math, so it could be wrong.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Just a nitpick, not really my place to say here, but isn't there a more relevant thread to be having this discussion in?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

gen.ahab said:


> Just a clarification, but the heavy bolted fires a 1.00 (I round) caliber explosive round. Saying it is comparable to a .50 is slightly misleading. It more like of you took two .50 round, taped them to a piece of dinomite and added a rocket for shits and giggles.
> 
> Oh, and just to give an idea, that is about 25mm.... I think. That was me mental math, so it could be wrong.


Glad we got size out of the way, still dont see how the fact its bigger by .25 have anything to do with the effectivness compared to a Browning.

The Mark 19 is a 40 MM Auto Gernade Launcher that seems to be quite large in size too. So again I fail to see where the Bolter that cant penetrate a Rhino is superior to a .50 Cal Barret or Browning that can pen REAL tank armore. Or a Mk 19. Those rounds arnt small either.


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> You never seen a 5.56 take the arm off a 14 year old?! No? Well ofcourse not you wouldnt made that comment. Some of those shit bag terrost have skinny arms and the Teens definatly do.


I've never shot a 14 year old boy. I've seen plenty of older males shot by M4s and M249s, and not once have I ever seen a SINGLE ROUND cause enough trauma to cause dismemberment. I don't have to be in the military to know these things, anyway. 5.56 rounds completely lack the necessary punch to de-limb someone. Big messy hole? Sure. Massive internal trauma? Yup. But not the dismemberment you see when you hit someone with a .50 cal. Not nearly.



> A standard bolt round (not a heavy bolter) is .75 cal. All fluff can be cited, if you really need it pointed out. It's also an explosive round with a depleted uranium core and an armour piercing tip (for piercing armour produced in the 41st millenium - our amour is like paper by comparison).
> 
> A heavy bolter fires .998 cal rounds, same explosive charge and depleted core.


By comparison, the largest round fired by a commercially available rifle today is the .950 JDJ round. It's about the size of a soft-drink plastic bottle, and is comparable in ballistics to the original tank rounds used in WWI. The rifle that fires it weighs from 80-100 pounds; it's so unwieldy, it's really quite useless for anything then just 'owning for the sake of owning.'

So yes, unequivally, many of the weapons utilized by the Imperium are far in advance to our own. We currently have nothing close to the boltugn in terms of modern weaponry.



Warlock in Training said:


> Glad we got size out of the way, still dont see how the fact its bigger by .25 have anything to do with the effectivness compared to a Browning.
> 
> The Mark 19 is a 40 MM Auto Gernade Launcher that seems to be quite large in size too. So again I fail to see where the Bolter that cant penetrate a Rhino is superior to a .50 Cal Barret or Browning that can pen REAL tank armore. Or a Mk 19. Those rounds arnt small either.


Because what you aren't getting is that Rhino armor is far superior to anything that we've developed today. You're also failing to understand the difference between game mechanics that exist for the purpose of a balanced table-top matchup, and the way things 'actually work' in the storyline. There are so many examples of the difference between the two, I really shouldn't need to cite them, but I will. Space Marines are way more badass 'in real life.' Rhinos aren't always getting blown to pieces; many of them survive thousands of years of service. Leman Russ tanks have frontal armor so powerufl as to be nigh-unstoppable. You really can't postulate theories based entirely off of tabletop statistics.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

SonOfStan said:


> I've never shot a 14 year old boy. I've seen plenty of older males shot by M4s and M249s, and not once have I ever seen a SINGLE ROUND cause enough trauma to cause dismemberment. I don't have to be in the military to know these things, anyway. 5.56 rounds completely lack the necessary punch to de-limb someone. Big messy hole? Sure. Massive internal trauma? Yup. But not the dismemberment you see when you hit someone with a .50 cal. Not nearly.


Someone who knows something. 




SonOfStan said:


> By comparison, the largest round fired by a commercially available rifle today is the .950 JDJ round. It's about the size of a soft-drink plastic bottle, and is comparable in ballistics to the original tank rounds used in WWI. The rifle that fires it weighs from 80-100 pounds; it's so unwieldy, it's really quite useless for anything then just 'owning for the sake of owning.'
> 
> So yes, unequivally, many of the weapons utilized by the Imperium are far in advance to our own. We currently have nothing close to the boltugn in terms of modern weaponry.


:laugh: Good Form. 

So if the rounds are as big as that, how the hell do the Clips hold 20-40 rounds? Better yet how do IG hold and Fire these Tank Rounds by Hand? Its in BL Novels like Last Chancers and more. I guess GW are just full of shit on their Weapon Statistics. Mk 19 and .50cal all the way. Its proven.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

The IG don't fire bolter's by hand, Astartes do that. The clip size is stated to be 15 rounds for the straight magazine, 20 for the sickle and the drum magazine up to 40 (or numbers similar to that). When the IG does use bolters (which is rarely, often only for officers) they use scaled down (and less advanced) versions suitable for augmented humans. _Last Chancers_ is old fluff, and poor fluff at that. 

Interesting how you just skip Son of Stan's most pertinent point, about the Rhino armour and survivability. All the arguments you've made seem biased towards today's tech. You advocate the power of today's weapons (which is impressive no doubt about it) but in turn disparage the equivalent or superior Imperial tech. You're really not treating each side fairly.


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> So if the rounds are as big as that, how the hell do the Clips hold 20-40 rounds? Better yet how do IG hold and Fire these Tank Rounds by Hand? Its in BL Novels like Last Chancers and more. I guess GW are just full of shit on their Weapon Statistics. Mk 19 and .50cal all the way. Its proven.


I think we have to assume that the boltguns used by the Imperial guard, and the boltguns used by Space Marines, are firing in entirely different calibers. The weapon mechanics will be the same, and the round physics will be the same, just greatly scaled down. I can't really think of anything to compare this to other then AR-series rifles, which are available in a variety of different calibers. That being said, there's not a huge difference between a .223 AR and a .308 AR, but there'd have to be a large difference between the boltgun a Space Marine can fire one handed, and the boltgun a Guardsman would use.

And yes...I do think that GW isn't always on-point when it comes to weapons descriptions, and they certainly aren't on point when it comes to consistency. That's where these sort of discussions get interesting; it's finding that fine line of applying real world physics to a fictional universe full of interstellar star vampires and Smurfs with railguns. :biggrin:


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## Anfo (Jul 17, 2009)

Don't 40k assault rifles only fire 24in? I remember someone saying that was like 120 feet. I think our guns shoot farther... :\


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

After going thru my Codexes and googling other forums I see the only way Imperial Guard like Commissars, Catachans, ect can cary BoltGuns is if there Scaled down in Caliber. A Astartes Boltgun would be larger than a Mark 19 but Guard would have to be .50 rather than .75. That I can live with. 



SonOfStan said:


> fictional universe full of interstellar star vampires and Smurfs with railguns. :biggrin:


Hey 4 years time or so well have Rail Guns too.:laugh:

....... I went back 5 pages and cant seem to figure out where our guns vs imperial Guns derive from....


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

The caliber stays the same - the size of the weapon is smaller. Same goes for SoB. The clip is much smaller for a human variant.

A .50 cal doesn't shoot self-propelled explosive missiles with a depleted uranium core, does it? No. How do you propose that it could be as effective as a boltgun developed 40 millenia into the future?

Oh, that's right. Because you're a fanboy of the forces.

I don't think you really get it, do you? I think you imagine damage to the IG being scaled in the same way as it is on Earth. Let me draw an image for you:

A Leman Russ is driving towards the White House.

An F22 Raptor flies by and drops every weapon it has onto the tank. All the most advanced bunker busting shit that we have.

The tank commander in the leman russ laughs, and then complains that they will have to repaint the tank when they are finishing driving through the White House.

Then a Marauder flies by, fires a lascannon and melts the entire F22 immediately. Pilot chuckles to himself.

Why is this absolute rape happening?

41st millenium technology >>>>>>>>>>>> 2nd millenium technology


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## Eetion (Mar 19, 2008)

Baltar said:


> The caliber stays the same - the size of the weapon is smaller. Same goes for SoB. The clip is much smaller for a human variant.
> 
> A .50 cal doesn't shoot self-propelled explosive missiles with a depleted uranium core, does it? No. How do you propose that it could be as effective as a boltgun developed 40 millenia into the future?
> 
> ...


That doesn't explain Orks anti tank capability. 

I'd say an autogun is roughly equivalent to an assault rifle in terms of capability and lasgun. The advantage comes from the logistics, reliability and resupply. No excessive cleaning, logistics and resupply advantage, a simple point and click interface. It pains me to say it but I'd consider the rate of fire in the game 'Firewarrior' to be pretty accurate. 

I'm not even convinced that some of the 41st millenia technology and fighting vehicles are superior. What they are are vastly more reliable, ease to run, and capable of being mass produced unlike any weapon or vehicle of war in end millenia comparison.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

You forget that Ork weaponry is Ork sized. It's enormous rather than sophisticated. By human standards, it'd be like giant weapons.

Don't forget, they still have power claws and stuff like that. Beyond those things, what anti-tank do they have? Shock attack gun? That's pretty advanced. Zzzap gun? Again, advanced.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

They can make Gargants using only scrap metal in a few months and with just over two thousand workers that are capable of defeating some of the strongest Titans the Imperium can make. Thread over.


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## Eetion (Mar 19, 2008)

Baltar said:


> You forget that Ork weaponry is Ork sized. It's enormous rather than sophisticated. By human standards, it'd be like giant weapons.
> 
> Don't forget, they still have power claws and stuff like that. Beyond those things, what anti-tank do they have? Shock attack gun? That's pretty advanced. Zzzap gun? Again, advanced.


They also have rokkits on the end of a large stick, and bombs attached to squigs.... Giant Weapon doesnt nessacerily mean effective, but they are capable.
If an Ork Rokkit can take down a tank, then im sure Modern equivalents would be capable of take a Russ down, sure it would take a hell of a beating, but it would go down.

Of course... Deads and Kans are an entirely different matter... when a few of them show up, you better hope no one else needs an artillery or airstrike. Any Troops that come face to face with them better be getting ready to withdraw sharpish.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Ork weaponary and technology works merely because the Orks believe it can. That rocket on a stick or bomb-squig is probably way more advanced than anything we have at the moment.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Baltar said:


> A Leman Russ is driving towards the White House.
> 
> An F22 Raptor flies by and drops every weapon it has onto the tank. All the most advanced bunker busting shit that we have.
> 
> ...


Ok, a bunker buster would take down a Leman Russ. You are vastly overstating the effectiveness of their armor plating. I wouldn't be blown away if a sabot managed to make it through.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Exaggeration is not always a bad thing. In fact, the only reason it has lost its effectiveness is due to overuse.

I thought my exaggeration in this case would help. Clearly not, when viewed literally.

You kinda see where I'm coming from, though.

A Leman Russ to any of our tanks is like... I dunno... A Sherman vs a King Tiger. It's a loss from the outset. It's what I'm basically getting at here...

But it's not just in the case of tanks. It's pretty much every single avenue of IG warfare...


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Baltar said:


> Exaggeration is not always a bad thing. In fact, the only reason it has lost its effectiveness is due to overuse.
> 
> I thought my exaggeration in this case would help. Clearly not, when viewed literally.
> 
> ...


Yes, I understand what you meant. Your were saying that our military is utterly inadequate when viewed against the imperium. Simple enough, but they would not be that effective. After a certain point
the hyperbole allowance runs dry.


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## Eetion (Mar 19, 2008)

Absolutely I agree the Imperium wins us hands down... The only possibility I would say is the professionalism of the forces and the tactics of modern forces (western profesional armies), but then that depends on what world and regiments we come up against. Against Cadians for example... Id say they are skilled enough to hand our asses to us quite thoroughly.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Baltar said:


> The caliber stays the same - the size of the weapon is smaller. Same goes for SoB. The clip is much smaller for a human variant.
> 
> A .50 cal doesn't shoot self-propelled explosive missiles with a depleted uranium core, does it? No. How do you propose that it could be as effective as a boltgun developed 40 millenia into the future?
> 
> ...


 Are you exagerating or you truly belive that?



Baltar said:


> Exaggeration is not always a bad thing. In fact, the only reason it has lost its effectiveness is due to overuse.
> 
> I thought my exaggeration in this case would help. Clearly not, when viewed literally.
> 
> ...


So are you agreeing that IG is low effective but mass quanity vs our high effective not mass quanity tech? You calim IG are better in everyway from Lasgun to Bolter to LRs at first and now it seems you are saying what I been saying... 

I still stand by our tech as not being more advance in sci-fi but vastly more effective or as effective to the IG and what they have alone. By that I mean IG Tanks, Weapons, and average Guardsmen. However I am not so much a Millitary Fanboy you label me as to say we can fight Titans, Astartes, or Imperial Navy (as in Ships with Orbital Bombardments). We just dont have the tech.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

As far as I'm concerned, in 40k a lasgun is primitive. Comparing it to our tech and it becomes an elite fighting weapon the likes of which we have never seen. We are talking about a laser weapon powerful enough fire, over range, with absolutely no trajectory (it fires flat), at the speed of light (it hits IMMEDIATELY with no flight time), a clip that holds enough charge for 40 rounds before a rechard (that can be done pretty much anywhere). It also never jams and is totally reliable.

Their armour, again, is primitive by 40k standards, and it is just flak armour. However, compared to our flak armour it will be the tits - it's had 40 millenia to be perfected in terms of flexibility and damage resistance. It's cheap and light, and much better than ours.

Their training is not as sub-standard as you claim. Ok, so their pdf forces are going to be like a bunch of weekend warriors or reserves, but their main line troops are hard mother fuckers. As for their elite troops... Well.. they would definitely rival our experienced troops, and they would have far more of them.

Cadians fight demons and chaos marines for breakfast. Okay, so they die like a bunch of little bitches, but what doesn't? They've had a lot of practice at planetary scale warfare - we have NONE whatsoever.

Their tanks are the same again. By 40k standards they are destroyable. By our standards, our tanks wouldn't have a prayer. We'd be able to bust them like a nut, but we'd be using firepower on them that we would normally expect to use on much more hardened target - like bunker busters and all kinds of heavy shit.

We just wouldn't be able to mount any kind of sustained resistance against an organised IG force, in any way whatsoever.

Their ENTIRE collection of technology is better than ours. From lasgun, to boltgun, to all the tanks and aircraft. You talk about assault rifles and machine guns blowing limbs off - fine. I'm sure it happens. One bolt round turns a normal fully armoured man into a stain. No trace. Just tiny bits of flesh all over the place. Never mind a heavy bolter round. I'd be confident that a HB would be pumping holes right through what we consider to be excellent armour. Tanks included. We use (or did) kinetic rounds with depleted unranium to punch through tanks. They have rounds with that same capability in large handguns. We would not have a prayer...

The tech is just too great.

No exaggeration in this post at all.

Our stuff is kids toys. We are steam age to their stuff. Okay, so there are guard regiments from lower tech planets - but they are idiosyncratic. The majority are kitted out and always fighting.

We would just be a standard Thursday afternoon to them.

They would be the end of the world to us.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Same goes for Orks, really.

Orks beat races who actually have experience in fighting them. How could we hope to deal with it?

All of our tech is based on fighting other people. How could we ever expect to seriously deal with an Ork invasion?

What does a 5.56 round do to an Ork, exactly? Orks survive bolter hits - an explosive missile. A 5.56 round (which is just a glorified .22 by anyone's standards) is going to be like a tickle.

Tanks? Please. I can see that in my mind right now. The tanks roll up, kill a bitch load of Orks. Then the Orks climb ALL over it, rip the hinges right off the hatches, and get into some diabolical brutality with the crew. That's before a bunch of Kans with giant circular saws appear and start going all Ikea on the tanks.

Air support? What are you going to do, bomb everything? Like... Everything? Let's face it, Ork aircraft are REALLY shit. It's the only place where we would/could maintain ANY sort of superiority. I mean, we have the oceans covered too - but who gives a shit? The war wouldn't be in the oceans. It'd be entirely land based.

What does your average marine (from any nation) do when he sees a 9 foot Ork come cruising around the corner with a meat clever the length of his body? Shoot it? Well, that's be one way to go, I guess. Give him a few minutes shooting that thing and it may actually die or feel some pain. Otherwise, it's just going to get messy for the marine (or whoever).

Orks lol.

My suggestion to hold out as long as possible?

Napalm the living crap out of everything. Give as many people as possible shotguns with slugs. Nothing fancy. Just shoot anything green that moves. We'd still all die, but at least we might not seem pathetic while doing it.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Baltar said:


> As far as I'm concerned, in 40k a lasgun is primitive. Comparing it to our tech and it becomes an elite fighting weapon the likes of which we have never seen. We are talking about a laser weapon powerful enough fire, over range, with absolutely no trajectory (it fires flat), at the speed of light (it hits IMMEDIATELY with no flight time), a clip that holds enough charge for 40 rounds before a rechard (that can be done pretty much anywhere). It also never jams and is totally reliable.


Cant argue its more reliable than the fame AK but I think anyone with a mirror marching in front of them would have the advantage LOL. 



Baltar said:


> Their armour, again, is primitive by 40k standards, and it is just flak armour. However, compared to our flak armour it will be the tits - it's had 40 millenia to be perfected in terms of flexibility and damage resistance. It's cheap and light, and much better than ours.


Im sorry but I highly doubt their cheap in material Flack is any better than ours simply cause they'res is made in the futur.



Baltar said:


> Their training is not as sub-standard as you claim. Ok, so their pdf forces are going to be like a bunch of weekend warriors or reserves, but their main line troops are hard mother fuckers. As for their elite troops... Well.. they would definitely rival our experienced troops, and they would have far more of them.


This I can agree. Alot of BL Novels and even the Dexes paint them as Weekend Warriors.



Baltar said:


> Cadians fight demons and chaos marines for breakfast. Okay, so they die like a bunch of little bitches, but what doesn't? They've had a lot of practice at planetary scale warfare - we have NONE whatsoever.


Cant argue with that, however in this thread of Orks vs Us I dont see where our Planet Invasion skills come to play.



Baltar said:


> Their tanks are the same again. By 40k standards they are destroyable. By our standards, our tanks wouldn't have a prayer. We'd be able to bust them like a nut, but we'd be using firepower on them that we would normally expect to use on much more hardened target - like bunker busters and all kinds of heavy shit.


I simply have to point out that the degrading over time Tech of the Imperium isnt getting better or stronger. 40K is all about Tech getting lost or unable to be made altogether. Thus why IG have WW2 Tanks at this point. Our M!A! armore have yet to be penetrated in combat. LR front is bad ass but can be taken out by Ork Rokkits which from any fluff point are no better than RPGs. Also our M1A1 120mm smooth bore cannon has a effective range of KMs. On top of that we have special rounds for up to 12 KMs. That beats the written fluff of any Leman Russ. Thats not including the Leopards either.




Baltar said:


> We just wouldn't be able to mount any kind of sustained resistance against an organised IG force, in any way whatsoever.


Ig backed by Navy, no. By themselves hell yes.



Baltar said:


> Their ENTIRE collection of technology is better than ours. From lasgun, to boltgun, to all the tanks and aircraft. You talk about assault rifles and machine guns blowing limbs off - fine. I'm sure it happens. One bolt round turns a normal fully armoured man into a stain. No trace. Just tiny bits of flesh all over the place. Never mind a heavy bolter round. I'd be confident that a HB would be pumping holes right through what we consider to be excellent armour. Tanks included. We use (or did) kinetic rounds with depleted unranium to punch through tanks. They have rounds with that same capability in large handguns. We would not have a prayer...


Except when you read the Novels alot of Bolters kill shot describe as Heads only blowing up or parts of Bodies erupting. Not often do I read about entire bodies turning mist. Even when Eldar are hit by these Bolts. 



Baltar said:


> The tech is just too great.


I think some things are high end tech, not everything.



Baltar said:


> Our stuff is kids toys. We are steam age to their stuff. Okay, so there are guard regiments from lower tech planets - but they are idiosyncratic. The majority are kitted out and always fighting.


Revolvers been around before Slide Action and yet Revolvers are more reliable and still favored even if they have half the shots. So our "Steam Age" Tech isnt so bad. Again Ill add the Imperium is relying on older Tech since tech is degrading or lost altogether where ours is ever improving. We will design a weapon in years where the DOGMA of Imperial law takes Hundreds of Years to be accepted or approve.



Baltar said:


> We would just be a standard Thursday afternoon to them.
> 
> They would be the end of the world to us.


Again have to disagree.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Baltar said:


> Same goes for Orks, really.
> 
> Orks beat races who actually have experience in fighting them. How could we hope to deal with it?
> 
> ...


Wow a Million orks vs the earth and you say Orks ez? You remind me of those Goth kids from South Park. Gloom and Doom. :laugh: I think we can Ezly adapt. Hell I think a Million Africans with AKs will beat the Orks back. Penal Legions of lesser Size kill Orks with Knives and Blades.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Don't get me wrong, we will kill a bare number of Orks. No question. We would become pretty damn gifted at splitting skulls.

However, the Orks would win in the end. They don't turn up and attack willy nilly. They are strange. They would breed and make their numbers swell beyond any hope of control.

The dynamic of fighting Orks would be strange. One on one, an ork would take apart even an armed man with ease. Shooting at it wouldn't do much outright. They are too tough. It'd be like shooting at big game. Our weapons are tactical and excellent - but they are designed for fighting other humans. They have a compromise between stopping power and ammo size so that we can carry plenty and still have an efficient weapons. That is simply no good against the Orks. We would need pure stoppage.

I don't see people shooting bears and elk with a .22

Things change again when it comes down to a whole force of humans vs a whole force of Orks. We would benefit from quality concentration of firepower - but the problem would be sustainability. We would put down a ton of Orks in short time, and then we'd start slowing down for whatever reason (say the Orks got a bit too close and we fall back, or we run out of ammo - whatever, there could be a load of reasons), and that's when they'd pile in and put an end to it. We would never have any chance in any way if they got up close. It'd be game over.

And you can't win a war just by hoping that you can shoot long and hard enough to keep them back......

No, our forces wouldn't handle their ferocity. Everything would get down to close combat all too quickly, and lawd knows we would get ruined there (no fault of ours - everyone gets ruined there by the Orks).

We'd create an epic body count. But the Orks would still win. They wouldn't win very well or very cleanly - they'd just tear everyone limb from limb and trash the place while they were at it.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Baltar said:


> Don't get me wrong, we will kill a bare number of Orks. No question. We would become pretty damn gifted at splitting skulls.
> 
> However, the Orks would win in the end. They don't turn up and attack willy nilly. They are strange. They would breed and make their numbers swell beyond any hope of control.
> 
> ...


Well I cant really argue that reasoning. Its a good point. Thats why its a good thing that Yarrick will land in the middle of the Ork horde with his Baneblade and pwn the Orks for us! Yay we win.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> Well I cant really argue that reasoning. Its a good point. Thats why its a good thing that Yarrick will land in the middle of the Ork horde with his Baneblade and pwn the Orks for us! Yay we win.


That is until Ghazghkull pitches up, headbutts Yarrick, get's bored and fucks off to Mars to leave a burning bag of shit on the Void Dragon's front porch.


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