# Hunting the Fallen - Dealing with Chaos Marines as Dark Angels



## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

With both armies having brand spanking new codices, let's have a look at how the Dark Angels can deal best deal with the sort of lists and units that CSM use.

General Comparison of Style:

_*CSM*_ - Focus lies with a strong core of transported troops, supported by ranged heavies, with hard-hitting assault units usually led by a Lord at the front. And of course the ubiquitous Heldrakes.

_*DA*_ - From a mixed list (AKA not mono-wing) perspective, the army is usually based around the HQ choice. So taking Belial will mean a terminator-heavy list that focusses on deep-striking on objectives and targeting specific parts of an opponent's army. Sammael will reflect a more mobile list aiming to deny opponent's mobility through targeting transports, whilst staying out of reach of combat. A generic HQ like a Librarian will tend to see a similar build to CSM with the core of mounted Tactical Squads supported by ranged heavies like Devastators, but tends to lack assault-orientated squads.



*HQ* - I think that Dark Angels have a better flexibility in the HQs they can field. Almost all of their options are viable, perhaps with the exception of Chaplains and even Company Masters are less useful than other choices. By comparison CSM only really ever look to the Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince - even their named characters aren't quite what they used to be (I'm looking at Kharn here). However, the two choices fielded by Chaos are brutally efficient. This advantage can't really be claimed by the Dark Angels, as I would only consider the Librarian (and maybe Ezekiel) to be truly efficient. Belial and Sammael are more necessary than they are effective as Independent Characters. However, the Dark Angels also have the advantage in their Command Squads which can provide a strong army core and character retinue.

_Slightly in favour of Dark Angels.

_*Troops *- Pretty damn even. Both armies have one 'elite' and one 'grunt' choice, with the option for others depending on the HQ choice. I think again, Dark Angels have a slight advantage in that they can have terminator/bike troops rather than just special types of Tactical Squads, and have access to Drop Pods and Razorbacks.

_In favour of Dark Angels.

_*Elites *- Interestingly, I'd say neither army has particularly strong Elites choices. Obviously for Dark Angels there are the Deathwing, but their strength lies in their ability to be taken as Troops. Company Veterans are similar to Chosen in that they both want to be ranged units, but their wargear options push them towards CC, which they are not entirely suited for. However, the Dark Angels swing things in their favour with the Dreadnought. By comparison the Helbrute and Mutilators are pretty unspectacular. And really, Cult units don't want to be taken as Elites.

_Slightly in favour of Dark Angels.

_*Fast Attack* - The Fast Attack sections of the two armies are remarkably different. Chaos Space Marines look to utilise more heavy-hitting units with the likes of Heldrakes and possibly even Warp Talons or Raptors. Dark Angels on the other hand, have more supportive units such as Land Speeders and Ravenwing Attack Squadrons. However again, the Ravenwing want to be really used in the Troops section rather than Fast Attack. I think Chaos just about edge it here with the Heldrake.

_Slightly in favour of Chaos Space Marines.

_*Heavy Support* - Well obviously you have all the parallels such as Predators, Vindicators, Devastators/Havocs, which generally balance each other that. So to look at the more unique units, I think balance lies here in favour with Chaos Space Marines. Although Obliterators took a bit of a nerf, they still pack a significant punch. Yes the Daemon Engines are meh with their WS/BS 3, but the Dark Angelsonly have the Vengeance, which performs a very selective role and so does not see much competitive play.

_In favour of Chaos Space Marines._

From these observations we can develop some thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages that the Dark Angels have over Chaos Space Marines.

Advantages:
- _Generally_ have greater mobility. Ravenwing lists obviously win out here, though Deathwing have freedom of deployment. If playing Greenwing, then this advantage is diminished as you have to rely on static units such as Devastators.
- Deathwing lists can completely ignore Baleflamer Heldrakes, as their armour just laughs off that AP3 flamer.
- Greater list flexibility on the whole with access to all three wings providing different playstyles compared to the fairly static build for Chaos Space Marines.

Disadvantages:
- Weaker in terms of fliers, as both the Dark Talon and Nephilim lack the same punch in terms of air-to-ground capabilities. However, CSM have fewer AA options as the Hades Heldrake is rather underwhelming, though the Dark Angels' Flakk missiles count for nothing against the AV13 Heldrake.
- When playing Greenwing, Chaos arguably have stronger troops if unlocking cult units, especially with the ranged advantages that Thousand Sons, Noise Marines and Plague Marines provide.
- HQs generally will underperform in challenges compared to Chaos Lords or Daemon Princes, generally due to the lack of AP2 weaponry. This is especially the case with the Special Characters.

Of course these are all just my opinion, so I'm expecting people to disagree with me on certain points. So what thoughts do you heretics have on how the Dark Angels can deal with Chaos Space Marines?


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## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

Whilst I can't really value add yet as I haven't yet taken either army for a spin, it seems that a lot of the chaos solutions for death wing heavy forces have taken a hit, with obliterators and Kharne being less effective. It will take some clever thinking on their part to figure out how to neutralise the DA advantages at the moment, as they seem to be either a meq killer mobile army or a teq or horde killing static force, with some mobile support such as the heldrake.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> *HQ* - I think that Dark Angels have a better flexibility in the HQs they can field. Almost all of their options are viable, perhaps with the exception of Chaplains and even Company Masters are less useful than other choices. By comparison CSM only really ever look to the Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince - even their named characters aren't quite what they used to be (I'm looking at Kharn here). However, the two choices fielded by Chaos are brutally efficient. This advantage can't really be claimed by the Dark Angels, as I would only consider the Librarian (and maybe Ezekiel) to be truly efficient. Belial and Sammael are more necessary than they are effective as Independent Characters. However, the Dark Angels also have the advantage in their Command Squads which can provide a strong army core and character retinue.
> 
> _Slightly in favour of Dark Angels.
> 
> ...


well first off, Hunting me is prohibited - its bad for my health.

for DA to counter CSM...honestly it really depends on a lot of little factors in list creation; for instance pure DW vs plague zombie spam will generally be VERY bad for the DA.

I honestly find the most trouble with DA (as a CSM player) is against a variety of Green Wing units, small 5man heavy tacticals (or combat squaded) controlling their DZ objectives with squads in rhinos/razors for controling/contesting the midfield and squads/dreads in pods to force me to deal with, effectively, 3 layers of defense. Add bikes/termies/speeders/ADL(s)/salt & pepper to taste.

the current list my friend uses against me is 1-3 DW termies and sometimes Belial but usually he takes a libby, 2-4 tactical units with an assortment of Rhinos/Razors/Drop pods decided on whim, a min squad of bikes with plasma (I run rhinos & maulerfiends for my vehicles, so plasma is just as effective for him most of the time) and a couple of speeders if he still has points.

----

for CSM against DA, always bring plasma, always.


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