# Thousand Sons Marines



## Bloodcuddler of Khorne (Mar 22, 2010)

I still have a box of unassembled Marines... however, I recently acquired a friend's entire Chaos Marine army, so now I have about as many basic Marines as I can practically use (unless I decide to go with a Marines + Chosen + Havocs list just to piss people off, lol)

I'm considering getting some Thousand Sons heads to put on them and make a squad of them, as they're the only Cult Troop unit I have yet to try out. I figured I should ask on here first, though, so...

How good are Thousand Sons marines in an Undivided army? They look like they're specifically designed to take advantage of the fact that everyone and their mother plays Space Marines of some flavor or another. Is that about correct?


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

The AP3 on the bolters really speaks for itself in most situations.
They could also be used for a speedbump of sorts for power-weapon heavy units (like Thunderhammer & storm shield terminators)

However, in a rhino and with bolt of tzeentch on the Sorcerer, they will serve as any anti-infantry role with the possibility to take out armor. Just like any other marine squad.
The above is merely what they excel at, compared to other cult choices


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## Annabelle (Nov 24, 2008)

There's no power in the chaos codex called bolt of Tzeentch. If you mean bolt of change, I wouldn't put it in the one squad in an undivided army. Stopping your 250ish point squad from shooting infantry to watch the sorcerer NOT kill a tank is a waste.


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

Annabelle said:


> There's no power in the chaos codex called bolt of Tzeentch. If you mean bolt of change, I wouldn't put it in the one squad in an undivided army. Stopping your 250ish point squad from shooting infantry to watch the sorcerer NOT kill a tank is a waste.


I was inkling more towards the thousand sons in general. Having them specialized for hunting MEQ would be the obvious in a force where you only take a single squad of them, and therefore the cheapest sorcerer available.


There is a Bolt of Tzeentch in the Daemons codex however!

_And they are the same spell!_


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## Bloodcuddler of Khorne (Mar 22, 2010)

Cruor99 said:


> I was inkling more towards the thousand sons in general. Having them specialized for hunting MEQ would be the obvious in a force where you only take a single squad of them, and therefore the cheapest sorcerer available.
> 
> 
> There is a Bolt of Tzeentch in the Daemons codex however!
> ...


Yup, except the Bolt Tzeentch is a ranged attack, not a psyker ability. That said, since I play both armies, I use the terms interchangeably too ;-)

So for my army, go for Doombolt and have them hunt MEQ squads? Sounds good to me, thanks guys!


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

Bloodcuddler of Khorne said:


> Yup, except the Bolt Tzeentch is a ranged attack, not a psyker ability. That said, since I play both armies, I use the terms interchangeably too ;-)
> !


Well actually, in the Daemons codex it is made clear that they are in fact psychic attacks, but that Daemons don't have to test for perils (and as such can't be negated) because... Honestly, what would bite your head off if you poked your head back home? 

Also, keep in mind that AP3 also denies armor saves to those pesky guardsmen! 
They aren't bad for gunning down them, as well.


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## Bloodcuddler of Khorne (Mar 22, 2010)

I was pretty sure they were treated as just ranged attacks for the purposes of specific anti-psyker stuff, like Blessing of the Blood God and the like...


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

Bloodcuddler of Khorne said:


> I was pretty sure they were treated as just ranged attacks for the purposes of specific anti-psyker stuff, like Blessing of the Blood God and the like...


That is correct. But it's still the same 'power' based on the warp  

Humans just have to make some effort to get it!


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## Bloodcuddler of Khorne (Mar 22, 2010)

Silly humans. Trix are for Tzeentch.


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

Honestly Tsons are the worst cult in the current codex. They are very situational, no variation or customization. If they aren't in rapid fire range of MEqs, they're useless. If they are in rapid fire range of MEqs, they will be in combat next turn, and once again they are useless. If their rhino gets shot out from under them, they are slow..and useless. And all that uselessness comes at a very high cost. While they excel at melting through AC3, they are only marginally better at it than Noise Marines with a Doom Siren Champ, and then the NM will clean up in CC. Berzerkers will eat through MEqs in CC faster than Tsons can shot them down. Plague Marines will survive an assault with only a few scratches and take many MEqs down while doing it with their Pfist champ, also weakening the enemy with their special weapons. Vanilla marines will melt a few MEqs with their special weapons, and then assault with their numbers..because they are much cheaper than cult troops.

Unless you are really hung up on Tsons fluff, which everyone that plays them is, leave them on the shelf until the next codex edition, which I have no doubt will make them useful again.


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

Zaden said:


> If they are in rapid fire range of MEqs, they will be in combat next turn, and once again they are useless.


I played a 1750pt game against a Death Guard player, using an army list that included a unit of T-Sons. I managed to hold his Daemon Prince in combat for 3 turns. Yes, my T-Sons eventually died, but they prevented his Prince from killing the rest of my army for 3 turns.

Not so useless to me :good:


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

Dawnstar said:


> I played a 1750pt game against a Death Guard player, using an army list that included a unit of T-Sons. I managed to hold his Daemon Prince in combat for 3 turns. Yes, my T-Sons eventually died, but they prevented his Prince from killing the rest of my army for 3 turns.
> 
> Not so useless to me :good:


Its not that they don't have uses, its that they aren't as good, or are just as good, at those uses as other choices, that also have other strengths.

For example, using Tsons as a tar pit like you have above is a fuction better performed by Plague Marines, who can also take awesome special weapons, and can hold an objective like no other.

Using Tsons for fire support is a fuction better performed by Noise Marines, arguably even when playing against MEqs..

Using Tsons for assault units is a function better performed by Zerkers.

Any unit at one point or another will shine for someone due to good dice rolling or just the perfect situation for their capabilities. In the long run, after throwing that unit into all situations, with average dice rolling, their true colors will come out. In a take-all-comers tournament like situation, extremely good generalship and some good luck will be necessary to excel with Tsons. 

All that said they do have good fluff.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Zaden said:


> Its not that they don't have uses, its that they aren't as good, or are just as good, at those uses as other choices, that also have other strengths....


However, Thousand Sons are a tar pit than Beserkers, and are better at holding objectives than Noise Marines.

So, if you are not running a four powers list, then they can cover the gap left by any of the others; admittedly not as well but they are not awful.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

You're all missing the rather obvious point. Thousand Sons have cooler hats than anyone else, thus making them awesome. 

Aramoro


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> However, Thousand Sons are a tar pit than Beserkers, and are better at holding objectives than Noise Marines.
> 
> So, if you are not running a four powers list, then they can cover the gap left by any of the others; admittedly not as well but they are not awful.


Yeah I was making a competitive point, which assumes one is putting in squads with roles in mind. If you are building a fluffy themed army, then you have less choices. Though arguably, an Emperor's Children, Death Guard or World Eaters themed army can all be extremely competitive. Competitively speaking, in my opinion (and I know its harsh), Thousand Sons are inferior.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> You're all missing the rather obvious point. Thousand Sons have cooler hats than anyone else, thus making them awesome.
> 
> Aramoro


Case Closed.


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## telemicus (Apr 10, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> You're all missing the rather obvious point. Thousand Sons have cooler hats than anyone else, thus making them awesome.
> 
> Aramoro


Agreed! All in favor...:good:


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

Awesome hats, with a similarly awesome color scheme :wink:


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## unixknight (Jul 26, 2010)

I dunno I think you can make a Thousand Sons army work pretty well if you get creative with how you define your units.

I want to do a Thousand Sons force with the option of adding demons but at the same time I want to preserve some semblance of flexibility and not make it just a swarm of Rubrics and Sorcerers. 

At the same time fluff is important to me so I don't want to just toss in other stuff from the C:CSM 'dex.

My solution:

A couple squads of Rubrics

A couple squads of 'generic' chaos marines painted in the livery of the Thousand Sons pre-heresy. The explanation being they're still with their brothers but were, for whatever reason, spared the effects of Ahriman's spell. (With the chaotic nature of space-time in the Warp, maybe they come from a time before it was cast and sort of "jumped" over it.)

A couple squads of possessed marines painted in a mix of the old and new paint schemes, maybe using that as a way to identify the units.

I can add spawn and princes and tie them to the Thousand Sons by saying they're former marines. I may even do a Demon Prince of Magnus the Red.


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