# Lost Primarchs



## warmaster isaan (Sep 18, 2008)

hey just wondering what people thought about the "missing" documents on the two lost primarchs. tell me what you think.
i think it might be possible that when they were whisked away they became so corrupt that the emperor might've had to execute them on sight as, like a mercy killing or something. maybe they never found the babes for they were whisked into the eye of terror itself maybe or outta this galaxy! who knows!
tell me your ideas and maybe we can think of a possible/plausible theory!k:


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## Sytus (Aug 27, 2009)

Well, what we do know is that the 2 lost Primarchs were reunited with their respective legions, and whatever misfortune befell them happened after that. Everything else is unknown.


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

I don't mean to sound boring but couldn't they simply be lost as the result of some kind of computer virus?


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Sounds hilarious but surely that could only happen to necrons.

Agree with above points that they were reunited with the emporer and took part in the great crusade. Alas they will probably never be known because GW likes to include a few mysteries to keep us going.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

In several of the Heresy novels, its mentioned that whatever happened to the two primarchs and their legions was considered a tragedy. A tragedy for who, now that is another story, but (in my opinion) it is most likely the Emperor because not only were they expunged from the records but speaking of them is taboo even amongst the primarchs. (As noted when Dorn brings up their separate tragedies to Malcador and the sigilite reminds Dorn that they are not to speak of that.)

In the Heresy novel A Thousand Sons, its suggested that many, if not all, of the primarchs know of what happened to the expunged two. That bit doesn't mean very much beyond the fact that there are a select few nearest the Emperor who know the fate of the two.


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## malitov (Mar 18, 2010)

Well from some of the small hints Dan Abnett has been dropping and a few other authors we *MAY* get to find out who the Legions were and what happened to them.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Honestly, I hope we only ever get the vaguest of idea's and never the whole picture. One of the big things about the two is that whatever happened was so bad that no one was allowed to know, no one is allowed to bring it up for any reason.


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## warmaster isaan (Sep 18, 2008)

I don't know whether anyone else knows anything about this but, do you think it could be possible that the blood ravens are related to the missing legions some how?
or maybe they are related to blood angels and just strayed to far and forgot?!


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

warmaster isaan said:


> I don't know whether anyone else knows anything about this but, do you think it could be possible that the blood ravens are related to the missing legions some how?
> or maybe they are related to blood angels and just strayed to far and forgot?!


Its widely assumed that they are most likely descended from the Thousand Sons.


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## Iron Within (Mar 15, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Its widely assumed that they are most likely descended from the Thousand Sons.


I am a big proponent of this theory. It just makes sense.

Anyway, I don't care who these primarchs are, or what their legions were like. I just want to know what they did to be completely erased from the records. Hell, Horus tried to kill the Emperor and he wasn't erased. The other traitor legions have not been erased either. What could be worse than turning to Chaos, the very thing that the emperor did his best to eradicate within human space, and betraying the Imperium? Thats the question that bothers me.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Iron Within said:


> Anyway, I don't care who these primarchs are, or what their legions were like. I just want to know what they did to be completely erased from the records. Hell, Horus tried to kill the Emperor and he wasn't erased. The other traitor legions have not been erased either. What could be worse than turning to Chaos, the very thing that the emperor did his best to eradicate within human space, and betraying the Imperium? Thats the question that bothers me.


We know that the lost Primarchs were reunited with their Legions and fought in the Great Crusade at some point, and what I think is one of the most likely theories is to do with geneseed/genetical mutation.

Maybe the lost Primarchs had major genetical flaws and became unstable, thus needing to be 'put down' and erased from records for reasons of not only morale, but fear, which would have spread rapidly through not only the other Astartes Legions but also through the Imperium in general (It would have made the Emperor/Primarchs/Astartes seem fallible and would have shattered the illusion of the Emperor's mastery and of the Primarch's perfection for example). In this regard, their records weren't covered up and deleted because they betrayed the Emperor or turned to Chaos, its just that they had unstable genes. Maybe Chaos (in its bid to get revenge of the Emperor for stealing some of their power and likely using it in the creation of the Primarchs) somehow managed to cause this instability when they whisked away the Primarchs. This would also slot in nicely with the tidbits of information we have from the Heresy novels, that they were involved in seperate tragedies and that the other Primarchs are not to speak of them etc.

I find that kind of theory much more plausable than "The Emprah told them to go hide in the Halo Stars to return in M42 when the Imperium needed them most lolz!!!11!" - which some people tend to throw around. I've even seen extremely farfetched ones floating around claiming that the Lost Primarchs were actually C'tan, or that they were the Hive Mind...(!)


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

yep so many threads on the missing primarchs but still no one has any answers, i did interpret something from the A Thousand Sons book, at the part about the gathering at Ullanour(spelling?) and how Magnus and Mortation are talking and Magnus says "Nine sons of the Emperor gathered on one world, such a thing has not happened since..." and Mortation responds with "I know well when it was, Magnus...... the Emperor forbade us to speak of it again."

so just something to think about, but to me that hints that there was a large gathering of primarchs and legions before Ullanour but one of the missing primarchs did something horrible during the event.


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## Sytus (Aug 27, 2009)

Ferrus Manus said:


> so just something to think about, but to me that hints that there was a large gathering of primarchs and legions before Ullanour but one of the missing primarchs did something horrible during the event.



That may point to something such as an execution taking place...just thinking. I personally believe that the missing primarchs are in some way connected to the Blood Ravens.


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## Tbirch (Mar 13, 2010)

Would be cool if atleast one of them was involved with the Blood Ravens. I quite like them, and would love to get some actual facts about their history at some point.


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## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

Legion of the damned/fire hawks are likely to be linked. as far as im aware they have been around scince before the heresey.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

warsmith7752 said:


> Legion of the damned/fire hawks are likely to be linked. as far as im aware they have been around scince before the heresey.


I don't think so, the FireHawks are a known 21st founding chapter with genestock from the Ultramarines. GW would have to rework their fluff to have them around since the time of the Heresy, be kept a secret, and then only after the 21st founding does something go wrong for them. Just wouldn't make much sense.


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## Iron Within (Mar 15, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I find that kind of theory much more plausable than "The Emprah told them to go hide in the Halo Stars to return in M42 when the Imperium needed them most lolz!!!11!" - which some people tend to throw around. I've even seen extremely farfetched ones floating around claiming that the Lost Primarchs were actually C'tan, or that they were the Hive Mind...(!)


Wow. Those just don't make any sense. I seriously doubt the Emperor would have them run and hide. He clearly didn't see the Heresy coming, so why would he see the need for reserve legions to protect the Imperium?

I don't know. There really isn't enough information on them to assume anything substantial. I wish GW would shed some light on it. I hate the idea of two full legions and their primarchs just being erased and forgotten about. It doesn't seem likely.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

This is GW through and through...

They elbow you in the ribs with their prices. 

They kidney punch you with the lacklustre website.

And they kick you in the cubes with their teaser fluff.

It`s all part of the game to keep us interested, and turn our income into theirs.

I have a feeling Tzeentch is their marketing director or something...


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## vortex_13 (Apr 17, 2010)

In "The Lightning Tower" Dorn seems to suggest that they aren't dead. He appears to be about to suggest that maybe they'd come to help if asked.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

vortex_13 said:


> In "The Lightning Tower" Dorn seems to suggest that they aren't dead. He appears to be about to suggest that maybe they'd come to help if asked.


Indeed you are right. He also makes a statement similar to that in Mechanicus Horus Heresy Novel. Though what I think generally (as well as other people i our 40k knowledge) is that these unknown primarchs and their legions were outcasted because the Emperor threw them out. However, as you listen to The Lightning Tower you will hear Dorn say that Malcador had suggested to the Emperor that these two legions Primachs statues be removed/destroyed and the records completely expunged as he would have it done personally. The Emperor is then said to have laughed at such a thing. This gets me thinking, if the Emperor had seen these primarchs as traitor, then he would have expunged them completely and have these primarchs shamed. However, by displaying them still (even though covered with a drape), he still shows them to honor the Imperium. So, CotE brings up a good speculation that perhaps they were legions meant to be used for the future.


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> I have a feeling Tzeentch is their marketing director or something...


And Slaanesh definitely controls their pricing to see the pain and pleasure that their products cause us!! :laugh:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> So, CotE brings up a good speculation that perhaps they were legions meant to be used for the future.


I didn't mean that seriously. 

Infact I personally think that is an absurd theory.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I've recently come up with a new theory on the missing Primarchs and I think it could explain a lot.
Each of the known Primarchs was gifted in a certain field, tactician, strategy, subterfuge, psychic ability etc.
Horus was supposed to be the greatest and had the most traits, he was the closest to the Emperor and was given the role of Warmaster as a result. 
Maybe the missing Primarchs were just a bit crap, their skills completely useless in the great crusade. 
Maybe Missing Primarch one's amazing strength was cooking muffins and the other had an uncanny ability communicate with running shoes.
So, when the Emperor found them he was at first happy to greet his long lost sons, then after some time he realised that they were completely useless and banished them after Malcador told him he had cocked up and should be ashamed of himself.
So upset was the Emperor and embarassed by what he'd created he wiped the records clean and banned anyone from talking about them.
Their legions were disbanded and one now works for Sports Direct and the other at Greggs the Bakers!


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> Maybe Missing Primarch one's amazing strength was cooking muffins and the other had an uncanny ability communicate with running shoes.
> So, when the Emperor found them he was at first happy to greet his long lost sons, then after some time he realised that they were completely useless and banished them after Malcador told him he had cocked up and should be ashamed of himself.
> So upset was the Emperor and embarassed by what he'd created he wiped the records clean and banned anyone from talking about them.
> Their legions were disbanded and one now works for Sports Direct and the other at Greggs the Bakers!


Awesome +rep


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I didn't mean that seriously.
> 
> Infact I personally think that is an absurd theory.


Don't be haten. I thought it was interesting, I've never heard that theory before.:suicide:

When listening to Lightning Tower and hearing of the Emperor laugh over the two legions having their stuff being destroyed, it makes you wonder about the seriousness about the reason why they are missing. I mean if what they did was really that terrible wouldn't he have been a little pissed off like he was with Magnus? Or even give a grunt and say something like, "MALCADOR... NEVER SPEAK OF IT AGAIN!" Because apparently its forbidden to talk about them. But no, he laughs. 

But as to the two lost legions having traits that might one way or the other been to fearful for the Imperium I could see. We have seen many legions that were an are at the edge of being "blasephemous" or just plain shocking for most of the Imperium. The biggest one of all was Magnus and his legion. Their powers took over their pride and they had to pay the ultimate price for it. Though we don't know what would have happened to Konrad Kurze if he had returned to Terra, I think it would be fair to assume that like Magnus, he would have had a "that was bad!" talk and if you do it again I'l send the wolves for you... when they reach full strength. I think the emperor was tired of his truthful dreams and thought that they might interfere with his ability to rule.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

ckcrawford said:


> Though we don't know what would have happened to Konrad Kurze if he had returned to Terra, I think it would be fair to assume that like Magnus, he would have had a "that was bad!" talk


Wait what? Wasn't the Emperor trying to have Kurze killed at the point when he 'turned'?

Those claims of becoming the monster the Emperor needed and wanted, and paying the price for it were not for nothing after all.


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