# Codex Daemonica Summary



## Pickle (Jan 20, 2008)

This is the latest summary of the rumours for codex daemons courtesy of Danograb of Warseer.

If any of this is wrong or I've missed anything could someone say.

HQ

Your army has to be led by a greater daemon, either a named special character one or not.

Bloodthirster
- very strong, best stats in the book, in assault phase he can Instant Kill a space marine character in close combat
- I4, S7
- Mortal Strike: Range 12 S7 AP 2 weapon (possibly a whip)
- when assaulting he gets S8
- has furious charge and 2+ inv save against psychic power and force weapon, wings and chaos armour.
- 5 attacks possibly WS10
- Costs like a land raider
- Plastic Model likely
- BS less than 5

Great Unclean One
- has feel no pain, immune to instant death, T6 I2 and slow and purposeful.
- Relatively bad compared to other GD
- has breath of chaos and aura of decay(see below)
- poisoned 2+ wounding attacks
- WS 6 and “1 more attack”
- Costs like a well tooled out falcon

Lord of change
- is very powerful: has a sort of force weapon, all the tzeentch gifts and shooting powers, he can shoot 3 times at 3 different target
- has 3+ Inv. save
- costs like a land raider
- probably BS5
- Weakest greater daemon statwise

Keeper of Secrets
- is weaker than a bloodthirster but has more attacks (possibly 6-7) and shoots a "Lash" like power
- can Hit and Run and has assault and defensive grenades, plus Fleet.
- Very good stats, the hightest initiative in the game (10 likely)
- Can shoot 2 times.
- has range 18" S4 AP 3 Assault 3 and the Pavane of Slaanesh (lash like power)
- costs like a great unclean one
- plastic model likely

Herald (2 for 1 slot)
- you can have Heralds of any combination of the gods you like (eg. Can have Nurgle and Tzeentch heralds in the same HQ)
- No Undivided Heralds
- Chariots are herald only and change the stats of the Herald. Causes herald to lose independent character status, unlike various steeds
- Has daemonic gift automatically, and can choose 3 options.

Nurgle Herald:
- Daemonic Gift: Plaguesword: not like the one in old chaos codex
- Feel no pain and slow and purposeful
- May ride palanquin of nurgle: +1A and +1W
Options:
- noxious touch: wound 2+ in HtH
- Cloud of flies: like having assault and defensive grenades.
- aura of decay: a S2 AP – autohitting shot in HtH to all model in 6" like CSM power
- breath of chaos: Assault 1, flamer template, wounds on 4+, no saves of any kind allowed, glances vehicles on 4+
- Unholy might: +1 strength
- Chaos icon

Slaneesh Herald:
- Daemonic gift: Rending claws and possibly aura/gaze of aquiescence
May have:
- Mount/Steed: +1A, move like cavalry
- Chariot: +5A, move like cavalry, furious charge
Options
- Chaos icon
- soporific musk: -1att one enemy in HtH
- Transfixing gaze
- Dance/Pavane of Slaanesh: lets you move an enemy unit or walker (within 24") d6+2", a walker or unit can only be targeted once per round and they can't be moved off the table or into CC
- Some more stuff not shown in WD (possibly pavane of slaanesh and/or beam of slaanesh)

Tzeentch Herald
Daemonic Gift: Daemonic Gaze - 18" S4 AP3 Assault 3
May take:
- Disc: +1A, jumppack
- Chariot: +1T, +2W, +3A, furious charge, 4+ armour save
Options:
- we are legion: it allows herald to shoot at two different target with different weapons
- Soul Devourer: Force Weapon
- Master of Sorcery: Can shoot 2 times with different weapons (i.e. monstrous creatures can shoot 3 times)
- Bolt of tzeentch: Str 9 AP 2 assault 1 24"
- Breath of chaos: Assault 1, flamer template, wounds on 4+, no saves of any kind allowed, glances vehicles on 4+
- Chaos icon
- Boon of mutation: turn enemy into spawn, like chaos power

Khorne Herald
Daemonic gift: hellblade
Furious Charge
May take:
- juggernaught: +1 S, T, W, A and 4+ armour save
- chariot: +1S, T; +2W; +3A; 3+ armour save
Options:
- Blessing of the blood God: 2+ inv save against psychic powers and force weapons
- Chaos armour: 3+ save (remnants of power armour)
Chaos icon
- Unholy might: +1 strength
- Fury of khorne: Rending
- Death strike: Whip attack, see bloodthirster


ELITE

Flamers
- Changed a lot
- A lot cheaper than before
- Shoot better than horrors
- One flamer can take bolt of change or breath of chaos
- Move like jump pack troops
- Warp fire: 18" S3 AP3 Assault 3

Flesh hounds
- Much the same as before
- Worth their price
- Good at flanking
Special character: Keranak
- option: instrument of chaos
- has 3 heads

Fiends of Slaanesh
- have 2 wounds and are immune to instant death.
- they are beasts
- 4 rending attacks on the charge
- I5 and hit and run

Beast of nurgle
- are like very toxic, tough but slow spawn... (FNP and poisoned attack)
- can do a tremendous ammount of attacks (D6)
- Costs over double a marine

TROOPS

- The troop choices are very cheap (not as an ork but cheap)
- One (or sometimes more) models may be upgraded with a gift.
- One can be upgraded to be a musician with an Instrument of Chaos which makes you win a melee fight by one wound if the result is a draw. Very cheap.

Daemonettes
- fleet and rending
- are the best choice not only for rending, but for their cost.
- 5-20 per unit
- cost less then Lesser Daemon in CSM codex (possibly same as a firewarrior)
- As many attacks on the charge as harlequins
- S3 T3

Bloodletters
- PW and FC
- cost a bit less then a Chaos space marine (possibly same as lesser daemon)
- no armour save
- S4, T4, WS5
- 5-20 per unit
- one Bloodletter may be given Rending, upgrading him like he were a Champion (his stats are unchanged).

Plaguebearers
- FNP, Posioned Weapons, Slow and Purposeful
- cost less then Lesser Daemon in CSM codex
- 5-20 per unit
- T5

Pink Horrors (w/special charcter)
- Special character (the Changeling)
- have access to one bolt of tzeentch
- cost less then Chaos space marines
- 5-20 per unit
- Shoot more than once per shooting phase(?)
- a "Horde of Horrors can be really competitive, if tooled up properly"
- Warp fire: 18" S3 AP3 Assault 3

furies
- Count as FOC slot, but not towards mandatory troops choice
- They are cheap and can fly
- S4, T4, WS3, I3
- Cost like Sisters of Battle
- Kinda uninspiring

nurglings
- they cost like an ork
- S2, T2, I2, WS2
- they do not have FNP, only the Swarm rule
- 2 wounds
- squad size 4-7
- Count as FOC slot, but not towards mandatory troops choice

FAST ATTACK

Bloodcrushers
- 4+ armour save

Seekers of Slaanesh
- are mounted daemonettes not the SoC one
- they have daemonette stats plus 1 attack and are cavalry

Screamers
- are jetbikes, interesting choice with upgrade, suck without
- one screamer can take bolt of change or breath of chaos
- Warp fire: 18" S3 AP3 Assault 3


HEAVY SUPPORT

Soulgrinder (modified Defiler)
- 2 close combat weapons, one Mawcannon (which can be ugraded) and a Reaper
- Is a walker
- Costs like a defiler
- 4 attacks and a “harvester” (possible same as reaper) built into one of its ccw.
- the Mawcannon has a 'Vomit' weapon profile which can be upgraded to 'Tongue' weapon or to 'Phlegm' weapon.
- not markable
- "tougher defiler" perhaps referring to AV values. "can't be penetrated by heavy bolters"
- can take sword (possibly reaper/harvester?)


Daemon Prince (very customizable choice)
- Daemon Prince Stat are lower then the CSM one, is cheaper, but can buy upgrade to become an HQ choice (or as good as one?)
- Can be more dangeruos in HtH than the CSM one (especially the nurgle one) or if marked Tzeentch can be a very good mobile fire base with 4+ inv.

SPECIAL CHARACTERS

There are 3 special Greater Daemons (one for Nurgle, one For Tzeentch and one Undivided) and 4 Special Heralds (one for each God)

Kugath the plaguefather
- has two special rules: Blessing of Pus and nurgling infestation
- T6

Epidemius- Rides a palanquin
- I3, T5, W3
- Slow and Purposeful, Feel no Pain
- Very potent cc radius attack
- "Improves daemon special rules as death toll rises"

Skarbrand, The Exiled One- Lacks wings and all Khorne related gifts
- His stats are buffed, compared to a normal Bloodthirster
- Burning Hatred: All units, friendly or foe, within 24" reroll close combat attacks
- Had his wings cut off
- Has a 3+ save and Furious Charge

Skulltaker
- WS7 S4 A4
- furious charge, rending, power weapon
- "Death incarnate to enemy characters"

The Masque
- I7
- rending, hit & run, fleet
- Instrument of chaos - see troops
- special rule called the eternal dance and an inv save of 3+
- Eternal dance - can use pavane of slaanesh (lash power) 3(or 2?) times
- 3 human arms and a big **** off claw arm, posed kind lictory. Wields a staff with a mask at either end and changes it's personality depending on who it chooses to be.

Fateweaver, Oracle of Tzeentch
- is a monstruos creature with 1 wound (possibly some strange rule)
- More expensive than normal LoC
- Decreased stats
- Either rerolls to hit and to wound rolls or auto wounds and auto hits
- Soul devourer (force weapon)

Bluescribe
- BS4 and all tzeentch shooting powers
- Jump Infantry
- Squabble over second spell, have to roll to see what it will be

GENERAL RULES:

All Daemons have Invulnerable save, can be placed in deep strike and have immunity to instant death.

Tzeentch have +1 to all invulnerable saves (4+ for normal daemons, 3+ for greater daemons).

All codex entries (yes, even the Soulgrinder) are daemons.

They can't be included in Chaos Space Marines armies, they are an independent force.

A full God army can be made, the strength of the force varies for the chosen God (IMHO Mono-Tzeentch and Slaanesh are the strongest)


ICONS:
Daemons can be placed all in deep strike, and than enter in play at 6" from an icon and assault.
Before the game you divide your army into two halves and nominate the half you want to start with on the table and if you don't succeed rolling high enough with a d6, you start with the other half. The rest of the army has to be summoned to the table with icons.

Icons are available to:

Herald
Bloodletters
Daemonettes
Plaguebearers
Horrors
Bloodcrushers
Seekers
Daemon Prince

It's very expensive for troops (10 points less the then a lascannon to a Choosen CSM unit) but cheap for DP (like a flamer)


OTHER:
- no nurgle or tzeentch cavalry, the first have Daemon Beast and the second Screamers (that are considered jetbike)
- there are no psychic powers, only shooting weapons. This is one of the strongest things in the list
- there are no daemonic weapons for normal HQ, don't know for special one.
- Nugle sucks very bad. It's very tough but slow like hell and can go only in HtH to do some damage, but only GD and DP negates saves
- Nurgle DP is a must for all-Nurgle armies
- Virtually Tzeentch can deploy up to 17 (seventeen!) S9 AP2 Assault1 shots...
- Screamers will not have access to Icons, thus preventing daemon bomb.
- Things will get better for all things nurgle in 5th ed.
- Possibly entitled "Codex: Deamonic Legions"
- Spearhead coming out 26th april. 33 models and a codex.
- Specifically:
1 Codex/Armybook
10 Bloodletters
10 Daemonettes
5 Fleshhounds
1 Bloodcrusher
1 Beast of nurgle
1 Fiend of slaanesh
1 Epidemius
1 The Masque
1 Skulltaker
1 Keranak
1 Soulgrinder (only in the 40K one)


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## Master Kashnizel (Jan 5, 2008)

I really hope they come out with a BF cus it would be WAY cheaper than the SH.


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## Zeldrin (Feb 23, 2008)

Thats interesting stuff! Sounds like its going to be a really interesting list to play and play against. I am glag Slaanesh have come out ok :grin:


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Why could they not write this like the Inqusitor book and allow the CSM to take X amount of them as allies.... Ghay (not l33t talk, just so damn gay I had to add an extra letter to it).


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

I noticed something on Warseer. In the rumor entry for Codex Daemonica, there are pictures for everything in the Chaos Daemon Spearhead box that is also shown. All except one item, which is plain as day and strange no one has mentioned it.. Karanak. The box cover is hard to make out good detail so I really couldn't pick out a different model, but there looked to be one.
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128328
Anyone know what this Karanak is?


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## Pickle (Jan 20, 2008)

Kaaranak is a special character, I think.


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

Wrath of Khaine said:


> I noticed something on Warseer. In the rumor entry for Codex Daemonica, there are pictures for everything in the Chaos Daemon Spearhead box that is also shown. All except one item, which is plain as day and strange no one has mentioned it.. Karanak. The box cover is hard to make out good detail so I really couldn't pick out a different model, but there looked to be one.
> http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128328
> Anyone know what this Karanak is?





Pickle said:


> Flesh hounds
> - Much the same as before
> - Worth their price
> - Good at flanking
> ...


Pay attention 007

He is a special character upgrade a Flesh hounds squad (much as Zagstrukk is an upgrade for a stormboyz squad in the Ork codex)


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

Woe is me for not caring to read the flesh hound part..


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## d'hargetezan (Mar 1, 2008)

Thanks man. I'm looking forward to haveing one of these armies. Daemons are freakin sweet! I see though they got rid of the old rules for daemon summoning. that's too bad, my friends always broke out into a cold sweat when my daemons arrived of a four up in the second turn.


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## plug (Feb 22, 2008)

Sounds good to me, bring it on:biggrin:


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## angels of fire (Dec 4, 2007)

My DaemonHunters now have something to beat-up. Woohoo


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## Volrath8754 (Feb 13, 2008)

*40k???*

Ok so I probably missed something somewhere along the line but I have seen pics of chaos Daemon codex and box but is their any real proof that daemons are indeed coming out for 40K because I can't seem to find anything but assumptions right now>???!!

Any links pics or clarifications would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks:good:


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## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

you can cleary see in a recent White Dwarf Magazine =)


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Yeah, sounds like Deamonhunters finally get an army they're made for beating up. I like the looks of a pure Tzeentchian army...my Slaanesh one is probably going to be relegated to Fantasy.
Tzeentch looks nasty though. 20 Horrors, 60 AP3 shots...goodbye, Space Marines.
-Dirge


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## Vero (Oct 30, 2007)

really disapointed you can't mix n match anything with chaos.


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## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

I have to agree with you Vero, 

I made Word Bearers for the sole purpose of Tons of Troops, Tons of Demons, and I used em all, not just the demonettes, but Furies, Letters,Hounds and horrors.

Now its just lame, Who in their right mind will pay 13 pts for a lame Lesser demon, when a CSM costs 15.

Kinda takes the punch out of having a Word Bearer army,


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Im like the idea of a pure deamon army. Not sure what power to go for, but probably between Tzeentch and Slannesh.

I also like the fact you cant have Chaos Marine and Deamons. Its more or less makes a new army from existing fluff. You cant combine different Marine chapter codexes (Blood Angel/Ultramarine/Templars) so why should Chaos be different? I know you can take =I= allies but they are so much more specialised so are certainly a special case.

Do we have a release date for this codex?


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## KharnTheBetrayer86 (Feb 26, 2008)

No finalised date, but it should be coming out mid May. Same time as the Demon rulebook for fantasy.


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## DarknessDawns (Oct 21, 2007)

im still kinda skeptical about all this
and very let down about GW going agianst all that fluff with the no mixture rule


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

cant believe they arent mixable. Just doesnt make sense. I was ready to go out and spend my fat tax check ive been saving. This has changed things. I will now have to boycot buying deamons. You will soon see me out front of your local hobby store protesting. Im just gonna go buy a nice big LCD tv instead.


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

Guess i will need to be more specific when people ask me what army i play instead of good old plain chaos. :angry:


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## Vero (Oct 30, 2007)

humakt said:


> I also like the fact you cant have Chaos Marine and Deamons. Its more or less makes a new army from existing fluff. You cant combine different Marine chapter codexes (Blood Angel/Ultramarine/Templars) so why should Chaos be different? I know you can take =I= allies but they are so much more specialised so are certainly a special case.
> 
> Do we have a release date for this codex?


Chaos =//= Imperium

You and GW need to stop looking at them like the are the same forces... except one is bad tempered and with spikes.

The concept of chaos itself is (un)wilfully worshiping the gods, in return for powers and support, part of which is demons.

Wouldn't Khorne relish the chance to send support to his devoted Berzerkers in the form of Bloodletters, Fleshounds and Blood Thirsters? More blood for the blood god, he cares not who it belongs to.

This can be repeated for any cult legion, ESPECIALLY Word Bearers who are now pretty useless IMHO.

If this was GW's plan all along; they should have lowered the cost of generic demons to 10 pts, dropped the Ld to 8 or 9, and given them a 6+ invul save instead of 5. Then they would be more appealing to players, since then they can use them to tie up enemies in combat.
Oh yeah, and added a fast attack option other than a worthless spawn, something that cand use fleet.

*deep breathe*

Then again... there is always Apocalypse...

*sigh*


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

OK Vero, Im not saying that I wasn't annoyed at not being able to field my Deamonettes when the new Chaos codex came out. In fact it was a real pain, because the codex release was so close to the GT heats. But mixing codexes just makes for unenjoyable games for your opponent.

Codexes are hard enough to get right for individual armies without creating some loopholes that cause problems, but to do it for multiple codexes is impossible. Jervis has been quoted as saying the 4 powers will be getting their own codexes, and you would think these will cover the various deamons that each power can summon.

I agree, Imperials do not equate to Chaos in the background, but as we all know you cant always follow background if you want some semblance of balance in the game. Otherwise Marines would be gods of the battlefields and you could never defeat a C'tan.

For me, I'll probably relish getting a nice Deamon force, and if a Death Guard Codex is produced I plan to collect a force in pre heresy colours.


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## angels of fire (Dec 4, 2007)

Yeah it would just take to much time to keep flicking between two codexes and you would probably miss a rule or something like that. So IMHO its better this way. In addition Death OF Angels will never be the death of the ANGELS OF FIRE.


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

Watch out buddy, Ill be in the workshop converting a detachment of firetrucks :victory:

I think they should have included Deamon book in CSM book as a supplement. So you could take the deamons with the CSM army or do daemon legion if you wanted just like 2nd ed codex. I think the biggest draw for the CSM for me was fielding daemons. Now its not even an option unless i want to waste the points on a unit that wont do much for me(IMHO). What happened to wysiwyg anyways. Cuz if i throw some blood letters as lesser daemons out on the field that is definatly not wysiwyg. shut up dude, you know what i mean. lol.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Well, I don't know about a supplement, but at least make it like the WH and DH codexes so that CSM can, ahem, "indoctrinate" demons and Heralds, maybe one Soulgrinder. Something like that. I just feel the Word Bearers lost a lot of character with the whole Lesser/Greater demons thing.

-Dirge


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## Apoctis (Feb 14, 2008)

Cool pics thanks for getting them I now know for shure I didn't want to wait for this race to come out


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

supplment may have been the wrong word.


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

I personally like the separation of the new dexes. Everyone forgets that the Chaos Space Marine codex out now is directly geared towards renegade marines, specifically Red Corsair-type situations. They didn't like the fact that you pretty much HAD to play one of the few Heresy Legions to play chaos. And these evil marines are just getting into the bread and butter of chaos stuff, so the lack of daemons is nothing besides rather obvious.
Now, if GW gets out a codex(hopefully codices) dealing with the Heresy Legions soon enough, that move will make more sense. I definitely feel the pain of the current state, as I played Word Bearers for 5 years or so.
I feel pretty good about a codex giving them their owns rules, per legion(of a few per book).


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## Vero (Oct 30, 2007)

They use the saying that even marines in the 41st millenium fall renegade, which is BS. 41st millenium marines are the least likely to fall renegade do to the zealousness of chaplains, inquistors, and regligous ferver of the chapters. Though the current chaos book is okay for just renegades; I want something that will allow me creativity, so I don't feel like I am feilding a total marine army. The current chaos dex is lacking in that area... and any cultist dex will not allow me the creativity of a customized legion.


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## Fluff'Ead (Aug 22, 2007)

1) It's not the first time that Daemons are a stand-alone army, but I as far as I know it's the first time Chaos had to be separated because of this.

2) The current Chaos Codex isn't a Renegades Codex. 
It covers everything - the heresy, Abaddon and other Legion heroes as well as the four Cults.
It merely fails to flesh these things out properly.

3) Meh.


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

> They didn't like the fact that you pretty much HAD to play one of the few Heresy Legions to play chaos


They made the fluff that way, so why change it?

In addition, why bring out the renegades codex first when noone plays them or cares really? 

They should have cut to the chase and brought out one of the devoted legions codexes (or more likely, one containing 2 of the devoted legions, since they individually don't have enough IMO to really need one each), or brought out a codex with list varients for all the non devoted legions, I.E Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Black Legion, Night Lords.


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

Pandawithissues... said:


> They should have cut to the chase and brought out one of the devoted legions codexes (or more likely, one containing 2 of the devoted legions, since they individually don't have enough IMO to really need one each), or brought out a codex with list varients for all the non devoted legions, I.E Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Black Legion, Night Lords.


I'd disagree that each devoted legion isn't enough to fill one book. The Black Templar and Dark Angel books showed that (although there was a lot of repetition) one space marine chapter has enough variation from another to justify a full book. 

If you imagine for example a possible Emperor's children book. 
Background wise you would have to cover (to a varying degree)
- the creation of the space marines
- The formation of Slaanesh / fall of the eldar
- Fulgrim and the emperors children 
- the horus heresy
- post horus heresy
- the eye of terror 

Army list wise you would have all the noise marines and Slaanesh Daemons, Lucius the Eternal , Slaanesh marked vehicles and Noise Marines of varying sorts (Havocs, Terminators etx). 

This is assuming they make nothing new for the book! 
Imagine adding -
New special characters (Eidolon,Kaesoron and all those other crazy bastards from "Fulgrim").
New Daemon engines (Soulgrinder variant?).
Sonic Dreadnoughts.


The possibilities are huge.


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## plug (Feb 22, 2008)

I agree with a lot of the points made above but personally but I think the present codex is very useable allowing the player to use a renergade or a cult army with out too much hassel. Some of the more colourful aspects like cult terminators, cultists for the Alpha Legion (among others), the daemons for the World Bearers, more firepower for the Iron Warriors etc which gave these legions there own look and feel have been left out which is a real shame as this could have been a major factor in a lot of peoples choices (mine included). Hopefully some of this will be sorted if they bring out codex's for the cult armies/other legions to address this.

Would it be a good idea is to bring out 2 codex's, 1 for the cult legions and the other for the remainder, laid and set out like the old Index Astarts features they ran in White Dwaf a few years ago. This would enable players to chose a legion/cult or general chaos army of there choice.

Would like to hear other peoples views on this as it is just an idea:good:


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

I dont see what is wrong with a single book. I have not seen a single post that states why a single book will not work. All i see is spending more money on codexes, which im sure is the point.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

It's not that it doesn't WORK. It's just that it's oversimplified and encourages people to bring armies that have absolutely no fluff basis to them.


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

You mean they dont make up thier own story line for thier army or they do not make their armies after the fluff in the book? I would think separating them killed word bearers and ditching the rivalries and daemons killed the fluff somewhat. Plenty of fluff in second edition armies and that was one book. Although i never saw anyone play a daemon/cultist army except for an alpha legion that used a lot of cultists. But also back then there was more fluff in a codex than anything else.


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