# Lemartes: Guardian of the Lost



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

So with the deadline approaching, who here has completed the service stud challenge and earned themselves a copy of Lemartes: Guardian of the Lost, and what purchases did you make to earn a copy??

I earned my sixth stud today, these were my purchases in the challenge;

G&F Kinslayer and Rebirth: First Edition (1st)
The Fall of Altdorf, Wolf Hunt (CD) and Sagas of the Wolf (CD) (2nd)
The Lord of the End Times, Knights of the Imperium and Heart of Rage (CD) (3rd)
G&F Slayer, The Shape of the Hunt (CD) and Masque of Vyle (4th)
Adeptus Mechanicus: Skitarius (5th)
Archaon: Lord of Chaos, Kharn: Eater of Worlds and Howl of the Banshee/The Path Forsaken (6th)

So in the end I have not bought anything that I wouldn't have bought eventually, apart from maybe Sagas of the Wolf and (though only after listening to it) The Shape of the Hunt which was rather poor. But that's a moot point now, Lemartes will be shipped out next week and I am quite looking forward to reading it. That said though, if this thing turns out to be a novella that has been improperly labelled as a novel (like Tallarn: Ironclad) I will be livid.


LotN


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## serghe (Apr 6, 2011)

Since I live in Australia, it usually takes 2-3 weeks to get anything from UK. And I buy BL books from Book Depository(It still takes 2-3 weeks to get my books, but with lower prices, who cares.) Therefore with the money I saved, I only buy limited editions from BL.
I think I earned 9 studs in total. 
My orders based on my BL accounts with value greater than $90 AUD are:
1. Sons of Wrath (First Edition) $100AUD
2. Visions of War (Limited Edition) & The Horus Heresy: Death and Defiance (Hardback) $117AUD
3. Honour of the Space Marines & Arjac Rockfist: Anvil of Fenris Limited Edition $105 AUD
4. Tempestus (Novella), Trial by Blood (Hardback) & The Horus Heresy: The Purge (Limited Edition) $122 AUD
5. Sabbat Crusade (First Edition) $100 AUD
6. The Horus Heresy: The Seventh Serpent (Limited Edition) & The Bloody Handed $160 AUD
7. Necromunda Omnibus 2, The Complete Kal Jerico, Titan: The Graphic Nove, Renegades of the Dark Millenniu, Catechism of Hate & Wolves of Fenris $212 AUD
8. Rebirth (First Edition) ($90AUD)
9. Rebirth (First Edition) ($90AUD) due to internet issue, I ordered Rebirth twice, BL helped me cancel the extra order. 
10.The Horus Heresy: Tallarn - Ironclad (Limited Edition) ($90AUD)
In the BL website it states: order with more than $100AUD will give you a stud. But I think you will get a stud for order a First Edition like Rebirth($90AUD) and Ironclad($90AUD). Otherwise I won't get 9 studs.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

18 service studs, so 3 copies in total. 

Won‘t list all my orders here, but basically every WH40K and HH novel released since the promotion started, along with picking up a few of the Direct Exclusive books I did not have when they got rid of them.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Dont remember what I ordered. But after learning of the promotion, I willfully held back on buying ebooks. Waiting until the bundles had amassed to the 60e mark to buy them. 

Only the End Times I couldnt hold back on and bought them immediately as they came out. But I earned the 6 studs about a month ago.


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## evanswolves (Jun 16, 2013)

1. Sons of wrath first edition
2. Corax soulforge and scorched earth limited edition novellas
3. Sons of lupercal and trial by blood gallery prints
4. Seventh serpent and legacies of betrayal
5. Seditions gate and death and defiance 
6. Tallarn ironclad and trial by blood

So didn't go out of the way to buy anything just to get a stud


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## evanswolves (Jun 16, 2013)

Lord of the Night said:


> That said though, if this thing turns out to be a novella that has been improperly labelled as a novel (like Tallarn: Ironclad) I will be livid.
> 
> 
> LotN


Hmmm never realised they had said this was a novel (just checked and they do indeed) was expecting it to be like the other Lords Of The Space marine releases (mephiston and arjac rockfist) and to be novellas. Iv just asked David annandale on twitter for the page count.
Iam hoping the slipcase is better than the one for Arjac Rockfist as getting the book out of that thing is a royal pain in the bum


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## evanswolves (Jun 16, 2013)

Hmmm you won't be happy lotn.. Around 173 pages not including the short stories
https://twitter.com/David_Annandale/status/587231628021239809


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

......173 pages?! Are they fething kidding us? This is no novel at all.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Look, no offense, but should anyone really be surprised by the length of Mephiston? As someone else mentioned, the preceding two entries in the same series were of considerably shorter length than most Black Library novels. You have to take that into consideration when making a financial commitment that probably exceeded £300/$400.

If you were going to spend that money on Black Library products anyways, then Lemartes is pure bonus and any disappointment as to its length has to take that into consideration. If you spent more than you normally would have, though, then I would argue you needed to do more research.

_The Talon of Horus,_ for instance, was the first novel in an upcoming series; _Sabbat Crusade_ was an anthology billed as a sequel to another Gaunt's Ghosts anthology, which itself was the same length as a novel. In both cases, there was reason to expect something with substantial word count. Lemartes, though?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

F*ck!! I am pissed about this, seriously. This is pathetic on Black Librarys part. In fact I dare say it's false advertising. They knew that nobody would give a toss if this were another LE novella, so they bill it as a novel to boost sales. Lemartes is NOT a novel, it is a novella.



Phoebus said:


> Look, no offense, but should anyone really be surprised by the length of Mephiston?


Yes we should. Why? Because when both Mephiston and Arjac came out they were billed as "novellas". Lemartes has been billed as a "novel". Hell Deathstorm is the exact same wordcount and even that was billed as a "novella". Black Library don't make sense anymore. They need to sort out what the hell is a novel and a novella to the, because this is a sad joke.

I regret some of my purchases now.



Phoebus said:


> In both cases, there was reason to expect something with substantial word count. Lemartes, though?


Why not? Lemartes is a fascinating character. He is afflicted by a condition that has driven everybody who suffers from it but him, and one notable exception, insane. Even that one exception doesn't suffer from it anymore but Lemartes does, he is constantly battling the Black Rage in his own mind while at the same time guiding his fellow Death Company into battle and making sure that they have every chance to earn their own glorious deaths. And he is cryo-frozen in-between battles so every time he wakes up it's to go to battle, and since cryo feels like an instant of time passing, it means that for Lemartes the war literally never ends, and as he enters another warzone he sees more and more of his brothers fallen while he still stands, and sees that those he knew are gone and new faces have taken their place. And yet his will has never faltered, he has never given into despair or apathy, and he still believes in his Chapter.

Why can't we expect a substantial wordcount about such a character?


LotN


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Personally I thought it was a bigger book, due to it being billed as a first edition novel, which made me think of The Talon of Horus and Rebirth.

But pulling this on the reading base, certainly makes me rather uninterested in pursuing future service stud offers, if its not going to be a good thick read.


Edit:
Felt so irritated that over it that Ive just sent a mail to black library about the clearly misstated novel, that in truth is a novella.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Guys, I feel your pain... but I'm - sorry to be blunt - not interested in a debate on whether or not Lemartes deserves a certain word count. I'm simply pointing out that:

1. The preceding two works of the same format (Arjac, Mephiston) were much shorter than normal novels;
2. That there has been an obvious shift toward higher prices for "exclusive" and "enhanced" formats, and audio dramas.

Given those two things, I never thought that Lemartes was going to be a substantial read. "Novel" or not in length, the precedent never led me to think it was going to be huge. I guess I just assumed Annandale went over the expected word count within the time he was allowed, and Black Library saw it as a bonus. Bad advertising? Yeah, probably. I guess Black Library could argue that the definition of a novel (in terms of word count) will vary by person, but all the same they had to know that Lemartes was shorter than any other novel *they've* released thus far (to my knowledge).

Still, I stand by my earlier words: if you spent £300/$400 to get an "exclusive" book that probably would have gone for £45 or more for free, then you needed to be more cautious with your investment. When you get into paying a premium (£45 or more for a book certainly qualifies as such) for items that are meant to be collectible, value and prices get incredibly muddled. I genuinely feel bad for those who spent more than they normally woulds to get Lemartes and were left disappointed.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Phoebus said:


> Guys, I feel your pain... but I'm - sorry to be blunt - not interested in a debate on whether or not Lemartes deserves a certain word count. I'm simply pointing out that:
> 
> 1. The preceding two works of the same format (Arjac, Mephiston) were much shorter than normal novels;


And as I said that is not what bothers me. What bothers me is that Mephiston and Arjac were both billed as "novellas" while Lemartes has been billed as a "novel" when it is not. And it isn't just this series;

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/deathstorm-hardback.html

Deathstorm is the same length as Lemartes, yet it is billed as a "novella" which is correct. So why is Lemartes, the exact same length as Deathstorm, instead billed as a "novel"? Because Black Library knew that most would not give a toss about yet another LE novella. But a First Edition novel? Yes, a lot of people would care about that. So they mislead us about it's length by saying it is a novel, when every BL "novel" has been at least 250+ pages, with some reaching 400 pages.

What bothers me is that Black Library has mislabelled Lemartes to boost sales. False advertising. I feel cheated and insulted by this, so much so that I plan on selling my copy on eBay right away and waiting for the regular version, and reviews to determine whether or not it's worth my time.



Brother Lucian said:


> Edit: Felt so irritated that over it that Ive just sent a mail to black library about the clearly misstated novel, that in truth is a novella.


Good. They shouldn't be allowed to mis-state their products this way.


LotN


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Not even slightly surprised.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

*Lord of the Night,*

Where the length of a novel is concerned, I'm pretty sure Black Library wouldn't have advertised Lemartes as a novel if it didn't _technically_ meet the definition. So again, I go back to my earlier point, which is that Black Library wasn't cranking out a big word count for these character-driven entries... and that there has been a decisive shift toward premium prices for products whose biggest feature is collectability/limited availability. With the exception of _Talon of Horus_ and _Sabbat Crusade_ (both of which came from excellent authors and whose context indicated a significant word count/page number), not a single Limited Edition thus far has made me think "this book will be huge and/or worth the price of admission."

So believe me, I genuinely feel bad for anyone who spent more than they normally would have to get the six Service Studs and Lemartes... but I still think they should have been more... reserved in their expectations?


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> Not even slightly surprised.


Me neither and also the reason why I never got into trying to get it. Heck I'm surprised not more people are turning to not so legal e-books from "the friend on the Internet" as Black Library keep on fucking over its consumers.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Phoebus said:


> Where the length of a novel is concerned, I'm pretty sure Black Library wouldn't have advertised Lemartes as a novel if it didn't _technically_ meet the definition.


But then why is Deathstorm advertised as a novella and Lemartes as a novel? They are the same length so either Deathstorm is also a novel or Lemartes is also a novella. I'm sure that "technically" Lemartes does meet the requirements to be called a novel, but I think the reason that Black Library have called Lemartes a novel is to boost sales, to get people interested in it while knowing that if they called it a novella, not nearly as many would care.



forkmaster said:


> Me neither and also the reason why I never got into trying to get it. Heck I'm surprised not more people are turning to not so legal e-books from "the friend on the Internet" as Black Library keep on fucking over its consumers.


I'm not surprised by that either. Before this I used to only get the eShorts from the internet, now though... well truthfully now the only products that BL puts out that I care about anymore are their hardbacks, which they've ensured we have to buy from them by including artwork in each one; the artwork meaning that third parties like Amazon or Book Depository are not allowed to sell them. So we have to buy from BL. I'll keep an eye for those, but from now on I think anything of Black Library's I can get from elsewhere, I will.


LotN


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

*Lord of the Night,*

As to your question, I have no idea. Are they the exact same length?

As to your assertion, I agree. While I don't doubt Black Library has arguments as to why a "Limited Edition", "First Edition", etc, product is worth £45 or more, I also don't doubt they are aware that it stings quite a few people when they pay two or three times the price of a novel for a novella of half the size.

Black Library made a calculated business decision that is based on the fact that their customer base can be relied upon to purchase limited/exclusive products at a premium price in an amount sufficient to justify said pricing scheme. The Black Library Loyalty Scheme is part of that. Now, if the trend for the company is toward increasingly expensive entries that are also increasingly disappointing insofar as the quality/quantity of their content is concerned, one can't be surprised when their purchase falls within that trend. There has to come a time when the customer votes with their wallet. 

I'll grant you that I have a very easy time preaching form my pulpit: my family life (toddler and infant increasingly trying to get their hands on their dad's prized possessions) and professional life (military guy on the go) mean that I've overwhelmingly bought eBooks from Black Library. I've resented the price creep that has seen me pay double what I was paying just a couple of years ago for full-length novels. At the same time, though, that price has remained low enough to not affect me... and I recognize that $17-19 for something that will occupy me for several days (just on the first read) isn't _that_ bad a deal (assuming it's a good read).

I get that most people don't like eBooks, but - short of going to a Special Friend on the Internet - I wonder if that's not a better short-term solution than continuing to spend two or three times that amount of money on things _that may piss you off._


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Phoebus said:


> *Lord of the Night,*
> 
> As to your question, I have no idea. Are they the exact same length?


Yes, they are. Both Deathstorm and Lemartes are 173 pages long. Yet they are advertised differently.



Phoebus said:


> I get that most people don't like eBooks, but - short of going to a Special Friend on the Internet - I wonder if that's not a better short-term solution than continuing to spend two or three times that amount of money on things _that may piss you off._


I don't trust data that way. Too easy to lose. I have a friend who lost every single book he owed because his kindle broke. And i've lost all the data on my laptop due to a faulty hardrive.


LotN


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Lord of the Night said:


> Yes, they are. Both Deathstorm and Lemartes are 173 pages long. Yet they are advertised differently.
> 
> 
> I don't trust data that way. Too easy to lose. I have a friend who lost every single book he owed because his kindle broke. And i've lost all the data on my laptop due to a faulty hardrive.
> ...


For exactly that reason i keep a backup folder of all my kindle ebooks on my pc. so if the kindle breaks, i can easilly restore everything.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

And also get a portable hard drive. Don't cost much and are invaluable in the event your PC dies.


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## Sevatar (Aug 21, 2013)

eBooks can also be easily backed up to any number of completely free cloud services due to the super small file size. Along with a RAID HDD configuration and a USB stick or external drive eBooks will outlast any physical copy, especially the paperbacks. The only problem is if you prefer the dead tree version.

173 pages, doesn't come as a huge surprise. Just don't buy anything unless the exact page number is listed.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

If he was legit in his purchases the data is available for download once again. And with the various forms of other cloud storage available from publisher, to sales front companies like Amazon and Waterstones to 3rd party free or subscription based ones like Mega, Dropbox or anything, as well as cheap as chips (literally, going for as little as 10Gb/£ (I got a Samsung 500GB for £45 which has backed up everything), complaining about how "losing everything" due to a data crash is hardly like saying "losing everything" due to a fire in a house; even with a house fire you can get insurance, but it doesn't get back the actual goods.

If he didn't do it legit, then it's either a) just desserts, b) a case of redownloading, and c) a case of backing up anyway which he should be aware of.

For the sake of 1 hours work, or a few hours each week, not backing up your data in this day and age is a rookie error. It's why in the past things are replicated in triplicate as well. 

You can only learn these things the hard way, though.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> Yes, they are. Both Deathstorm and Lemartes are 173 pages long. Yet they are advertised differently.


Bizarre!



> I don't trust data that way. Too easy to lose. I have a friend who lost every single book he owed because his kindle broke. And i've lost all the data on my laptop due to a faulty hardrive.


I don't know about Kindles. All I can tell you is that I could break my tablet a million times, but it wouldn't matter because you can download any eBook you bought from Black Library or iTunes as many times as you want. Unless _their_ servers go down, my purchase is safe. Now, you still have to deal with a broken laptop or a broken tablet, but that's a different issue altogether!

I could be completely wrong. Maybe Black Library wouldn't give a damn if people shifted to eBooks in mass numbers. I don't think that would be the case, though. I can only imagine that they went the novella/exclusive/limited route because their sales studies indicated they could profit from it and that people would buy that stuff. Thus, I can only imagine that if people _stop_ buying that stuff then Black Library will be forced to scale back on those products (to a point where, you know, they become limited again :wink: ).


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## The Scion of Chemos (May 24, 2013)

Yeah, I hate to break it to you guys, but a novel is anything over 40k words.
Be that 40,001 or 240,000.

They should have posted a page count, but then at the same time, I really don't see the anger when it comes to getting a *free* book. 

And it is free. I didn't do anything any differently and got 13 studs. Though I'm a sucker for art prints and free shipping.

It definitely sucks if you went out of your way or spent more than you would have normally to get it though. But then, it's still a free book.

And yeah LOTN, Deathstorm should be listed as a novel, isn't the Grey Knights Sanctus Reach listed as a novel because it's a similar page count.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

A novel isn't only defined by the word count, the real measure is whether characters develop throughout the story. 

If they don't develop even a 300 page work is still effectively a "short story." The function of a short story is to place characters is a situation and see how they react, but not how they change or develop.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Got a response from Black Library:

Thank you for your email and your feedback. We base our definitions of our books on word counts rather than page length as it is a more accurate way of classifying our products. As a rule our novels are a minimum of 80,000 words 


I hope this helps,


Stuart


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Had a second reply from Black Library where I asked regarding Deathstorm's status as a novella, compared to the similarilly paged Lemartes.

Thanks for your reply. Deathstorm is actually a novel and was accidentally labeled incorrectly as it is also over 80,000 words.



So clearly you cant trust Black Library 'novels' to be large reads anymore.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Kreuger said:


> A novel isn't only defined by the word count, the real measure is whether characters develop throughout the story.
> 
> If they don't develop even a 300 page work is still effectively a "short story." The function of a short story is to place characters is a situation and see how they react, but not how they change or develop.


I think this was a really good summary for a short contra full novels lenght.


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## evanswolves (Jun 16, 2013)

Hmmm this isn't signed like the other 2 legends of the space marines books

Anyone had an email saying when this is shipping


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## evanswolves (Jun 16, 2013)

Lol, shipped 10 mins after I posted :lol:


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## evanswolves (Jun 16, 2013)

:biggrin:


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

So whats the page count? Skimpy 137 as previously mentioned?


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## evanswolves (Jun 16, 2013)

175 pages,


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

evanswolves said:


> 175 pages,


Yeah, my copies going right on eBay. I'd rather have the Skitarii models i'll buy with the money.


LotN


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Finished it, found it an enjoyable read that goes deeper into the character of the blood angels. Lemartes is really an unique character!

Tbh I think it was worth it after all, even if the book wasnt as large as I had liked it to be for the effort.

The book is a direct continuation of the plot that Mephiston continued from a short.


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## Sevatar (Aug 21, 2013)

Is said short included?


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Sevatar said:


> Is said short included?


Theres a booklet with 2 shorts 23 and 24 pages

The Endless Fall is a precursor to Lemartes and should be read first. Ghosts of Rage is an epilogue and clearly setting off for more books to come.

Edit:
the 2 shorts here is entirely new. But the short I was refering to, was a precursor to mephiston, lord of death. Which Lemartes continues from.


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