# Is extra armor worth it on CSM rhinos?



## Djokovic (Dec 22, 2008)

I have been wondering... 
A basic CSM rhino costs 35, and to upgrade to demonic possession is 20 points, while extra armor is 15 points. 

DP ignores stunned/shaken, while all extra armor does is count stunned as shaken.

Then,
Why_ ever_choose extra armor? 

Extra armor seems totally useless because, now, in 5th edition, only 1/6 vehicle damage chart rolls result in crew stunned. It should take 2 turns for the CSM rhino do deliver its cargo, so in a game there is a 1/3 chance you will be stunned (this is considering the possibility that you have suffered one effective hit each turn) when it actually will hurt you a lot. It increases the cost 42%, but only makes the vehicle 33% better.

DP will completely negate 5/12 vehicle damage rolls. So it is like 10/12 times it will help you (because 2 turn delivery of zerkers or whatever it is transporting). Therefore, It makes you 83% better, but only improving the cost by 57%.

However, I prefer to go naked rhinos for all of my units except for very expensive units... it just doesn't make sense spending points on something you will only use for 2 turns. And you have smoke launchers.


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## Tigirus (Apr 13, 2008)

only usefulness is in a armoured spearhead, because all crew shaken results are ignored, and the extra armour makes the crew stunned into crew shakens, and then they are ignored.

So to sum it up, no, it isn't useful on rhinos. As far as rhinos go I prefer the cheap and cheerful method, get them for base cost, get no upgrades and then use them as fire shields for your troops after they disembark.


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

For me its either DP or nothing. Most of the time i use DP if i put khorne berzerkers in them. Anything else is normally just a regular rhino.


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

I asked this question ages ago. It saves you a few points extra armour. I mean why would you care if a rhino ends up not being able to shoot its just one bolter and thats not its job is to fire.

Its job is to keep moving and extra armour does that.

Extra armour is what to do.


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Agreed,

Rhinos with anything other then DP on them is useless and a waste. The Rhino's purpose is to get your shit in asap. and as long as those rhinos are alive they best be mobile 

Chaosftw


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

On a standard rhino, bare bones is best. I agree, keep them cheap and they work just fine for the role they play. 
Putting extra armour on one will allow them to keep moving on a stunned result, for 15 points we just took 1/6 of the damage chart off, not bad really, but not that great for the points. 
Possession allows them to ignore shaken *and* stunned results all together and keep rolling, albeit with a BS of 3 and the passengers still affected as normal. Now we are getting a bit more for our points. We just cut the damage chart by 1/3 for only 5 more points. Possession really comes into being when used with Land Raiders, Predators or Vindicators. Vindicators seem to benefit even more so due to the drop in BS to 3 not affecting how a blast weapon hits it's target too much. Now a BS of 3 on say a Predator or Land Raider can be detrimental as these types of tanks and it's weapons rely strictly on the BS score to hit it's target directly.


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## Djokovic (Dec 22, 2008)

Hmm... seems like bare bones is the way to go. DP would only be useful on a vindi or land raider or pred.


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

Unforgiven302 said:


> If you use a AC than take possession due to it being a blast weapon and the BS plays less of a roll.


When did the AC become a blast weapon. Stat line says Heavy 2
Unless you are thinking of the Havok Launcher


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

mrrshann618 said:


> When did the AC become a blast weapon. Stat line says Heavy 2
> Unless you are thinking of the Havok Launcher


Because I said so, that's why! :biggrin:

Good catch! I was looking at the wrong page and weapon when I typed that! My bad. I was looking at the stats for the battlecannon as it is right next to the listing for extra armour... 
unish:I slap myself. I shall fix my screwup after my whipping.


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

I think it depends on what squad you have stuffed in the rhino, and the intended role you wish that squad to play. For example...

When I run berzerkers in a rhino (which, honestly, is pretty rare), the rhino gets extra armor. Why? Because I want it moving every turn. The closer I can get to my enemy before they crack the coffin the better off my berzerkers are.

My Thousand Sons rhino are stock, aside from a havoc rack. The havoc rack is there mostly because I think it looks rather neat for one, and secondly I usually have the points left over with nothing else to spend it on. But no, no extra armor on my Thousand Sons' transports. Chances are real good I'm going to have them where I want them in one turn, two at the absolute most, anyhow, so I'm not nearly as concerned about them as I would be if I were using the rhino over multiple turns.

Also, another thing to look at is your objective takers/holders. The way the missions are set up, there is at least one objective close (or in) your deployment zone. I use my Thousand Sons as shallow objective holders, meaning they don't go much past my DZ to grab objectives, so again, my Thousand Sons rhino's don't need that added protection.

My berzerkers, those are the deep objective takers/holders. Those are the ones that need a reliable ride into the back field (because hoofing it sucks) and benefit from the extra armor--just to keep moving.

Rather long-winded, and I apologize for that, but I do hope that helps you out a bit.


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## newsun (Oct 6, 2008)

I don't even bother with EA on my sisters tanks as it is just not really worth a 1/6 chance of being useful assuming you even got a pen/glance.

When I do run it, it's because I have 5 pts left over I can't spend elsewhere and I put it on the canoness rhino...because.


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

I've only played one game so far with CSM (using proxies for alot of the army, I'd rather play with proxies than unpainted models, they at least look nice and generally have the same gear)

The Extra Armor didn't seem to do much. Smoke launchers made the hits glanicing anyway. I definately could have used those extra points elswhere.


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## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

smoke launchers don't make hits glancing anymore. Not for CSM anyway.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

i like to run csm rhinos with possession and havoc, sure they become expensive but they can deal out the hurt quite happily when the get near! and always keeps em moving!


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

Pauly55 said:


> smoke launchers don't make hits glancing anymore. Not for CSM anyway.


Yeah, sorry about that. That was 4th edition comming out, I meant Smoke launchers granting the cover save.

I've only been able to play a handful of 5th. I'm still trying to get these rules "straight"


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