# Starter Sets Contents spoiled



## maddermax

From Barcode at BolS



> UPDATED WITH TRANSLATED TEXT by darthpuyang
> 
> Dark Angels
> captain with power sword, combi-plasma, iron halo.
> librarian with bolt pistol and force sword
> combat squad sarge with plasma pistol and chainsword, 2 plasma gun, 7 bolter
> death wing sarge with power sword and storm bolter, 1 assult cannon and 1 chain fist,others 3 power fist
> raven wing sarge with chain sword, one bike with plasma, one with pisotl, all twin link bolter
> they all have frag and krak grenades
> 
> Chaos
> Lord with power sword and plasma pistol
> dreadnought ( the name in Chinese is something like hell beast, but I assume it's dread from rumors) with multi-melta and power fist( dreadnought fist?)
> chosen champion with power maul , 1 lightning claw, 1 power fist, 1 power axe, 2 close combat weapon
> cultist leader with 2 ccw, 1 flamer, 8 with ccw and auto pistol
> cultist 2 leader with shotgun and ccw, 1 heavy stubber, 8 autogun


What do you think?

[updated with chinese pages]


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## TechPr1est

oh god thats going to be expensive (compared to the last starterset)


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## gwmaniac

very interesting, a chaos army with 20 cultists...i'm looking forward to seeing these models


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## Karyudo-DS

maddermax said:


> What do you think?


Sounds a lot like the "spoiler" we got earlier...but with more models and no Deathwing Captain. And is that really a Captain and not a Company Master?


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## Coyote77

Chaos Marines and any other Marines are its own best friends in a starter set. Gonna convert some Dark Angels.


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## Achaylus72

Well for me this this is heaven, my Chaos Space Marines Army has a Dark Angels component to it, and this is the ultimate for me a couple of starters and it will complete that portion of my army.

But ironically i was told back in September 2009 that the new 6th Edition Starter Box Set was going to be Dark Angels and Chaos Space Marines, so this confirms to a point what i have known for over 2 and half years.


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## scscofield

I just want the set to release sooner than later  Will give me two armies to play with I don't have and a means for me to teach my daughter the game.


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## Karyudo-DS

Yeah really, September? I want a mini rule book and some RW/DW sounds good...all the weapon options sound nice in this set. Granted I don't entirely need MORE Deathwing, even less if a Codex release is in the near future and a real Deathwing set is made (I mean Wolf Guard got one!). Hopefully the scuplts will be unique. Strange they have powerfists and no assault weapons...


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## mead813

Nice im looking forward to getting this. I use both of these armys and will fill them out nicely. Thanks for the info.


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## Exile13

Perfect! I use robed Dark Angel bodies for my Word Bearers! Definetly worth it for me. It does sound like alot though...


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## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr

this is a robed chaos converters wet dream, robed bodies and chaos bits all around!


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## Exile13

Just added it up, the DA come to 840, and using the current codex the chaos marines come to 418, so unless the cultist squad cost 200-300pts I see some pt costs going up. maybe that "Dreadnought" costs alot more in the new book?


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## Oel

I hope this is true, I already have CSM's and I have been slowly building a DA army here and there. This kit as is would be amazing for me.


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## shaantitus

I like this idea. I wonder what the cultists will be like?


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## Dicrel Seijin

Hmm, not sure how I feel about this. 

I mean I had been considering adding CSM allies to my Ork Freebooterz, but as a Chaos Renegade Orks Warband (Orks converted with Chaos bitz). 

As for my Salamanders, I could ally them with the DA, but I'm not all that enthused about DA (if I were, I'd be playing them instead). 

Still, I'm not disappointed enough to buy the just released hardcover yet.


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## clever handle

those cultists better be mean in combat, the chaos force looks to have nothing on the DA one


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## yanlou

Cant wait, im really excited now, this'll be the first starter set iv bought aswell. More Chaos Whoop whoop.


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## Marius_Ruberu

This will be nice. At first I cursed in anger because I dont have a use for any of the armies, but then again. As long as the DA have robes I will convert them to BT. I can sell off the Chaos and I get the mini rule book that I want.


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## bitsandkits

Wow thats a nice starter set, honestly didnt expect it to match up to AOBR, which i still to this day think they got over excited and put too much in, but this is a very nice starter set. Chaos cultists is something i never expected to see the light of day, and a plastic dread at last, hopefully they will also be putting them both out in stand alone multipart kits too.


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## Necrosis

I think this is a great starter set. I've been thinking of starting chaos, I can convert the dark angels into chaos space marines to give me a decent size army for a low price.


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## maddermax

Exile13 said:


> Perfect! I use robed Dark Angel bodies for my Word Bearers! Definetly worth it for me. It does sound like alot though...


It's essentially the same amount of models as Black Reach, 20 cultists instead of 20 ork boyz, 6 Chosen CSMs instead of nobs, 3 ravenwing bikers instead of deffcoptas...

There has been, however, a persistant rumour going around that there will be two separate boxes for the starter set, one for each side, but I'm not sure how much I believe that.

At any rate, with what we see here it seems extremely one sided, unless the chaos guys are getting some serious buffing to them. The cultists seem to be guardsmen with a slightly worse save, and their shooting is going to do almost diddlysquat to the marines (perhaps a couple of tac squad guys at best, far worse against bikes or termies), while the firepower of the DAs could wipe both squads of cultists to nearly nothing in a turn if they chose to. However, it would probably be best for them to just gun down the dreadnaught and chosen with the plasma fire, then laugh as there's nothing to take on your deathwing. First turn, fire at range, take out most of the chosen (3 plasma shots and rending autocannon and plenty of bolter fire should mean only a couple left), second turn rapid fire plasma at dread, if it dies early, fire your tac squad at the cultists, 3rd turn, bikes and deathwing go in, cultists have almost no answers for either of them. Chaos lord does some damage, but for the most part it'll be a foregone conclusion. That's without the Librarian and whatever powers he gets even factored in.

Plus, squad of 10 cultists with assault setup? Even if they didn't get shot up before charging, they'll lose a couple of guys to defensive fire on the way in, and couldn't hope to go toe to toe with any of the DA units, even if they got the charge off. Bikes or terminators? 4s to hit, 5 or 6s to wound, 2 or 3+ save, means maybe (just maybe) a single guy dead, and they'll lose a few in return. Tac squad would lose a couple of guys, but will have far more attacks back to break the cultists (8 tac squad guys means 4 dead cultists). At least the Orks had st4 on the charge to help a bit, and T4 to make them survive the shooting a little better...

I dunno, it just seems so very very one sided at the moment. Perhaps there's something we're missing?


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## Sakura_ninja

Nice, I just hope it will have a rulebook in (heard it won't,it will just have quickplay sheets) and be a good price like black reach


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## humakt

Sakura_ninja said:


> Nice, I just hope it will have a rulebook in (heard it won't,it will just have quickplay sheets) and be a good price like black reach


I would be surprised if no rulebook was included. They included a mini book in 8th WHF so it would be a real break for them not to do it for thier prime seller.


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## Barnster

This would be great, but maybe the hellbeast isn't a dreadnought but a tough deamon?

It would fit the game narrative of the chaos guys trying to summon a warp nasty while the DAs have to try and stop them 


I like the sound of the set a LOT, though I hope their is minimal sculpted iconography on the marines both DA and Chaos as hoping to add the DAs to either my blood ravens or ECs


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## Sakura_ninja

humakt said:


> I would be surprised if no rulebook was included. They included a mini book in 8th WHF so it would be a real break for them not to do it for thier prime seller.


My worry is it will be either no rulebook, or a skinny version (no ally, fortification or second foc, or the 500pts game), just the basic 40k rules for basic games.

Or it will be a scenario booklet, quickplay sheet for the armies and weapons and nothing more, technically that's all GW has to supply until you spend £45 to play properly.

It's not beyond the realm of imagination


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## Bindi Baji

I am genuinely looking forward to seeing the ravenwing models




Barnster said:


> This would be great, but maybe the hellbeast isn't a dreadnought but a tough deamon?


no, it's definitely a dreadnought



maddermax said:


> There has been, however, a persistant rumour going around that there will be two separate boxes for the starter set, one for each side, but I'm not sure how much I believe that.


it's more a case of persistent wishlisting, the second box is just a special edition


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## Necrosis

Why can't it be a dreadnought and a demon at the same time?


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## maddermax

Barnster said:


> This would be great, but maybe the hellbeast isn't a dreadnought but a tough deamon?
> 
> It would fit the game narrative of the chaos guys trying to summon a warp nasty while the DAs have to try and stop them


Possibly, but I doubt it. I think "Hell Beast" is just it's name - each of the squads and characters has it's own name. All the Characters/units apparently have names (Captain Balthasar, Librarian Termiel, Tac squad Raphael, Raven wing squad Allian, Deathwing squad Balachar).

Anyway, saw someone postulate that perhaps in the missions the librarian could fall and go over to the chaos side, which would make it at least a little bit fairer (I'd still bet on the DA every time though, unless an amazing power was rolled). That's pure speculation though. I think it more likely that DA are just meant to win in a "cinematic" fashion through each starter mission. Then, when DAs win, you swap sides and you get to be DM for a bit, playing the Chaos forces, letting the other player heroically win with the DAs. Play it as a storyline scenario set (almost like space hulk), rather than as a balanced 2 player set sort of thing.


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## Bindi Baji

Necrosis said:


> Why can't it be a dreadnought and a demon at the same time?


it certainly could be


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## Akhara'Keth

Necrosis said:


> Why can't it be a dreadnought and a demon at the same time?


Dreamnought? :grin:


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## Bindi Baji

Akhara'Keth said:


> Dreamnought? :grin:


that just sounds sooo wrong


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## Bubblematrix

Bindi Baji said:


> that just sounds sooo wrong


No, Warm-Creamy-Dreamnought, that sounds wrong


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## Zer0

As long as it includes a rules booklet that lets me avoid paying $75 for the hardback, I'll be happy. Don't play either faction, but if the Cultists look cool enough, I might keep them.


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## maddermax

Little bit of supposition from Bob Hunk over at warseer:



> Just throwing this out there guys, but I think the starter set will be called Dark Vengence and will feature the Dark Angels 5th Company vs. the Crimson Slaughter Chaos Space Marines. Check out the timeline in the rulebook (page 189 I think it was), specifically the box with date 884999.M41. It talks about the Dark Angels 5th company fighting the Crimson Slaughter for control of the 'Hellfire Stone', and is the only text box on the entire timeline that finishes with a 'to be continued' style '...' as though there's more to be said.
> 
> Not much to go on I know, but it would be a bit of a coincidence to throw in a previously unknown battle between the two armies of the starter box into the timeline of major events. *shrugs* It probably also makes sense for the CSM faction to be previously unknown, as the Imperial Marines need to be seen as awesome so it's easier to have them beat up unknowns than have the beat up an existing Legion with a large fan base.
> 
> Now this bit is purely conjecture, but could the rumoured scenery be the Hellfire Stone itself...?


Sounds like a wild guess, but it would be interesting.


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## Karyudo-DS

Did he mean scenery in the box? Figure they would give you some cover. Though the backstory sounds logical to me, a person not having looked at the timeline. Though I didn't think that's how they set up the other sets but the setup makes sense. Maybe not the name for a starter.

I could still see it though. If the stone was in the scenery bits that could make an objective piece.


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## scscofield

I am betting the changes to the CSM and the DA in terms of Codexes will make this a more balanced fight. Then again unless you removed the dread in AoBR that set wasn't balanced.


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## Bindi Baji

maddermax said:


> Little bit of supposition from Bob Hunk over at warseer:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a wild guess, but it would be interesting.


it is fairly plausible, that doesn't mean it's true of course


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## Khorne's Fist

DA, cultists and chaos marines? Excellent if true. I might end up buying two boxes. All the box set models have been a step up in standard from their predecessors, so I'm expecting this one to contain some fantastic new models.


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## Pride365

This looks great I play DA and I am sure I can use the Chaos guys for something or for trade!


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## mcmuffin

I may convert the DA into chaos marines or just swap them with a DA player for their chaos parts

oh, and the small rulebook, i want it.


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## Purge the Heretic

I'm awaiting the boxed set for the start of my alpha legion...Will be Chaos Cultists a few chaos marines with allied guard eventually I think, maybe even a rogue inquisitor with some DCA's above 2k.


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## Karyudo-DS

scscofield said:


> I am betting the changes to the CSM and the DA in terms of Codexes will make this a more balanced fight. Then again unless you removed the dread in AoBR that set wasn't balanced.


Well the Marines had 17 models versus 29 Orks right? Point-wise the Orks were oddly low though but in the case of a starter that might not mean much to new players. Granted I think a balanced set would be nice but even if this one isn't, Chaos have the number advantage anyway and it is a starter anyway. Still gives you a taste of the game and possibly units to start collecting into it with.


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## DavC8855

Fallen Angels conversions for me. Can't wait to see the cultists! I'm assuming this starter set will go close to $150 USD. Gonna have to wait for xmas this time.


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## Fallen

Exile13 said:


> Perfect!...It does sound like alot though.





DavC8855 said:


> I'm assuming this starter set will go close to $150 USD. Gonna have to wait for xmas this time.





TechPr1est said:


> oh god thats going to be expensive (compared to the last starterset)


*Sigh* - pending on how good the set is, might buy two, i use DAs as my Tsons...so i could use another squad or 3...and Chaos...who does not want chaos? feel free to just send me your half of unwanted minis.



maddermax said:


> I dunno, it just seems so very very one sided at the moment. Perhaps there's something we're missing?


and AoBR was even? face it - it'll be Good Guy Marines winning Vs non Imperials.



Necrosis said:


> Why can't it be a dreadnought and a demon at the same time?


dont we have that already? it just has 6 legs and is called a defiler:biggrin:


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## Dicrel Seijin

maddermax said:


> I dunno, it just seems so very very one sided at the moment. Perhaps there's something we're missing?


Besides the mini rulebook, the AoBR set had a thin booklet that described the scenario with simplified 40K rules (no wargear choice, no USR, no army specific rules, etc.) and in the beginning it was recommended that you not use all the units (i.e., the dread) for a more balanced (point-wise) game. 

If the Dark Vengeance set has a similar booklet, then Chaos could actually go toe-to-toe with the DA.


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## Imwookie2

DavC8855 said:


> Fallen Angels conversions for me. Can't wait to see the cultists! I'm assuming this starter set will go close to $150 USD. Gonna have to wait for xmas this time.


I hope that price tag is wrong.....but I have a feeling its not.

5 years ago the 65$ pice tag was enough to discourage me from playing warhammer I would hate to be a new player now.


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## PlagueMarineXenon

Imwookie2 said:


> I hope that price tag is wrong.....but I have a feeling its not.
> 
> 5 years ago the 65$ pice tag was enough to discourage me from playing warhammer I would hate to be a new player now.


Inflation is a bitch and the economy its wretched step-bitch of a mother. That and GW likes raising prices for fun I feel. Though I would like to start a new CSM from scratch. I have no need for the DA. I had purchased the AOBR to jump start my orks and well, was rather disappointed at the lack of bitz and customization you get by purchasing the kits separate. I think I'll be passing on this one.


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## Chaosftw

Fellow Heretics! 

Now that I know what the starter will have in it I will most likely be buying a few for the Chaos side. If anyone is interested in any of the Dark Angels stuff or a mini rulebook ill trade for your chaos side of the box set!

Just tossing it out there if anyone is interested 

Ether way can't wait for this to drop!!!!!


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## bitsandkits

this is quite a telling starter set, much of whats on the chaos side does not exist at the moment in model form in plastic at least, plus Bindi was shouting that we are going to see some significant chaos marine love in the coming months, this is quite exciting.


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## SilverTabby

This pretty much confirms the chaos dex will be released before September, and dark angels will be in, or just after September. There are components in it that don't exist, and they wouldn't put them out without a rulebook to support them (for a major release like the starter set, WD rules just aren't enough). And having the other side have a massively out of date codex? No way. The follow-up sales on this kit are a very important fundamental of hitting store targets each month, so each army must have additional kits and a codex that will last...

Also, the scenarios will balance the costs discrepancies. The two forces are not intended to have stand-up fights...


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## misfratz

SilverTabby said:


> The two forces are not intended to have stand-up fights...


Except in intro games in GW stores, where it helps if one side has an in-built advantage so that the customer can win their first game.

What could possibly be special about the special edition of the starter set?


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## Sakura_ninja

misfratz said:


> Except in intro games in GW stores, where it helps if one side has an in-built advantage so that the customer can win their first game.
> 
> What could possibly be special about the special edition of the starter set?


It will be exactly the same but come out several weeks later.

But I think the special edition just comes with quickplay sheets, scenario book and a rulebook
Standard comes with just quickplay and scenario book
I bet that's what it is


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## Bindi Baji

Sakura_ninja said:


> It will be exactly the same but come out several weeks later.
> 
> But I think the special edition just comes with quickplay sheets, scenario book and a rulebook
> Standard comes with just quickplay and scenario book
> I bet that's what it is


There will be a rulebook in both


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## Sakura_ninja

Bindi Baji said:


> There will be a rulebook in both


Is it guaranteed?, and will the starter box rulebook be an exact copy minus fluff?
I have suspicion and doubt when gw is involved, I just don't see why they would pass up £45 if they know they can get it


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## Bindi Baji

Sakura_ninja said:


> Is it guaranteed?, and will the starter box rulebook be an exact copy minus fluff?
> I have suspicion and doubt when gw is involved, I just don't see why they would pass up £45 if they know they can get it


It's always been in the starter kit and I would be extremely surprised if they removed it, 
if they removed it then it wouldn't actually be a starter kit


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## Sakura_ninja

Well it would be, it introduces you to 40k by giving you all you need to only play with the models included, that's starting you, if they gave the an entire rulebook you would never technically have to advance further than a starter box, especially if you trade.

For example say the starter is £80 with models and mini rulebook
You and a friend buy one and trade the bits and buy a codex at £20 each
Gw makes off you both £200
But, if they don't include the rulebook you both need to buy one
So they still charge £80 each and you can both play the box game even after trading
You both need a codex at £20 each
And now you both need a rulebook at £45 each
That's £290 off you and mate
Add more dice, glue, paints and off the two of you they make close to £400 instead of £300


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## King Gary

Random speculation, haven't we had enough?  A box set without the full rules is, well, pretty inconceivable. Regardless of contents, going to start a new army by splitting the contents of 2 boxes with a friend. Already decided on the non-imperials so it looks like I'll be playing some chaos in a couple of months


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## misfratz

Sakura_ninja said:


> Well it would be, it introduces you to 40k by giving you all you need to only play with the models included, that's starting you, ...And now you both need a rulebook at £45 each...


When I were a lad only one of us in the group of my friends would buy the starter box set - let's use 2nd edition 40K as an example - and the rulebooks were then leant out to all the other friends in turn.

I ended up with the Marines from the box set and one mate ended up with the Orks, while my brother simply started Eldar, another friend started Tyranids, etc. If the ruleboook had been a standalone purchase then likely only one of us would have bought it, and it would have been leant round to the others.

You're using an unrealistic example to try to provide credence to your paranoia.

It is good business for GW to provide new entrants to their games with a good deal, so that they are not put off by high entry costs. Consequently, it would not make sense for the starter set not to include a full version of the rules. GW will hope that they can sell the full rulebook on the basis of its extra content, or to people who aren't interested in the miniatures in the starter set.


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## bitsandkits

misfratz said:


> When I were a lad only one of us in the group of my friends would buy the starter box set - let's use 2nd edition 40K as an example - and the rulebooks were then leant out to all the other friends in turn.
> 
> I ended up with the Marines from the box set and one mate ended up with the Orks, while my brother simply started Eldar, another friend started Tyranids, etc. If the ruleboook had been a standalone purchase then likely only one of us would have bought it, and it would have been leant round to the others.
> 
> You're using an unrealistic example to try to provide credence to your paranoia.
> 
> It is good business for GW to provide new entrants to their games with a good deal, so that they are not put off by high entry costs. Consequently, it would not make sense for the starter set not to include a full version of the rules. GW will hope that they can sell the full rulebook on the basis of its extra content, or to people who aren't interested in the miniatures in the starter set.


My thoughts exactly, i wouldnt expect any surprises,AOBR format has made them a shit ton of money so i expect they will carry on with that style rule book and models for the forseeable future. People love a bargain and the starter sets are still by far the best value for money gw offer


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## jondoe297

I can't not see them releasing a mini rule book with the starter set. 
The main rulebook and the lovely collectors edition is (imo) released primarily for the veterans of the system. So they can see the new fluff and get to grips with the new rules asap.
They then release the starter set a couple of months later including a mini rulebook which we all know is so much more versatile than the BRB. 
This box set is cross functionally effective, for newbies getting into the game (everything there for them) and for the veterans a source or new models, potential conversions and a very handy travel size rulebook! But then my opinion is biased as I collect chaos and have always has a soft spot for DA so this starter set is pure win for me mwhahahah!
So all in all, its crazy talk to suggest no mini rulebook.


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## Words_of_Truth

Is it worth getting the starter set? I normally only ever get the rulebook which I've done so already, but I'm tempted to get this set because of the chaos in it.


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## Sakura_ninja

Well we'll see, I just don't underestimate GW's ability to be giant cocks and not put a rulebook in, its very much something the GW of today could do if they felt like it, and its not paranoia that's for certain, if it happens though you can all buy me a starter set as a "shit she was right" present 


As to it being worth or not worth getting, well it depends on the price, its about £200+ worth of stuff if the Chinese list is correct, aobr was something like £200+ as well, I'm guessing £80-90, following battleforce prices, maybe even £100


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## Gret79

Sakura_ninja said:


> Well we'll see, I just don't underestimate GW's ability to be giant cocks and not put a rulebook in, its very much something the GW of today could do if they felt like it, and its not paranoia that's for certain, if it happens though you can all buy me a starter set as a "shit she was right" present


 
Have you got enough cash to buy us all one if we're right?:grin:


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## Sakura_ninja

Gret79 said:


> Have you got enough cash to buy us all one if we're right?:grin:


It only works one way, if everyone else is right I'll say "aww damnit", that'll be enough


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## bitsandkits

Sakura_ninja said:


> Well we'll see, I just don't underestimate GW's ability to be giant cocks and not put a rulebook in, its very much something the GW of today could do if they felt like it, and its not paranoia that's for certain, if it happens though you can all buy me a starter set as a "shit she was right" present
> 
> 
> As to it being worth or not worth getting, well it depends on the price, its about £200+ worth of stuff if the Chinese list is correct, aobr was something like £200+ as well, I'm guessing £80-90, following battleforce prices, maybe even £100


If there is no rule book i will gladly buy you a copy and give it to you


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## Bindi Baji

bitsandkits said:


> If there is no rule book i will gladly buy you a copy and give it to you


and if there is no rule book I will gladly buy you a coffee


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## khrone forever

Words_of_Truth said:


> Is it worth getting the starter set? I normally only ever get the rulebook which I've done so already, but I'm tempted to get this set because of the chaos in it.


i could have the DA :biggrin:


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## bitsandkits

Bindi Baji said:


> and if there is no rule book I will gladly buy you a coffee


As long as you understand i dont put out for less than steak and chips


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## Sakura_ninja

bitsandkits said:


> As long as you understand i dont put out for less than steak and chips


I'm cheap, just a kebab does me


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## MadCowCrazy

TechPr1est said:


> oh god thats going to be expensive (compared to the last starterset)


Didn't read whole thread incase someone replied to this. I would expect GW to have a price increase but it wouldn't be because of the contents.

You get pretty much exactly the same amount of models compared to 5E starter. There is only 1 more model in this kit if I'm not mistaken and that's the DA Librarian.

SM
Captain - Captain
Librarian - No 5E equivalent
Combat Squad - Combat Squad
Death Wing - Terminators
3 Bikes - 3 Deffkoptas

Chaos
Lord - Warboss
Dreadnought - SM Dreadnought
Chosen - Nobz
Cultists - Boyz

I expect the price to be around £65-70, it would be great if they wanted to sell allot of starter sets like they did with the 5E starter when it first came out and was $60 but I dont think GW would be that smart...


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## VaUgHaNy86

I know it's not much to go on, but my LGS told me a couple of months before the release what he expected the price of the rule book and collectors edition books (he didn't say anything about the gamers edition) to be and was pretty much spot on, he then also told me that he expected to see the box set to be around £75


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## Azezel

SilverTabby said:


> And having the other side have a massively out of date codex? No way.


My High Elf army book says different.

Not that I doubt DA are coming very soon after September - but it wouldn't be the first time if they did have a delay.



Am I the only one who feels that... Well, a starter set with Marines Vs Marines is a bad thing for the game, though?

I realse most people are excited at the prospect of cheap models to bulk out their Marine armies and that's fair enough - no sense beating that dead horse.

But, for the state of the game, I cannot help but feel this is a very bad thing. When this Marine Vs Marine kit was first rumoured months ago I joked that it'd be called Assault on a Typical Night at the Gaming Club.

Really, I can only see this kit making things worse. At least some of the new players introduced through previous kits played Orks or 'Nids (or gods help them, Dark Eldar...)

I do feel happy that Marine players will have a wealth of cheap new models for their armies, but I just hope they feel it's worth it a year or three down the line when non-Marine armies are even rarer than they are today. I feel a great swell of disquiet when I meditate upon the future of 40k heralded by this set.


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## SilverTabby

Azezel said:


> My High Elf army book says different.


I believe the DA book is early 4th Ed? The High Elf book was not 2 editions out of date when they were reintroduced as the starter set choice.


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## DoctorNecrosis

Should be a good way to bulk out my Chaos army I'm just starting and if I can convince my cousin that he wants to start building an army then we could go halves. I shall pray to the Chaos Gods.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I want to know what they look like


----------



## Karyudo-DS

SilverTabby said:


> I believe the DA book is early 4th Ed? The High Elf book was not 2 editions out of date when they were reintroduced as the starter set choice.


Just prior to the 5th ed C:SM book to test all the C:SM nerfs they called off. Just in time for the C:SM book no less. Though I thought both books were 4th edition so neither is much more out of date and needing updates more than the other. Maybe the new rules change this a bit. Of course neither of those lists are enitrely possible with the existing codex's if I'm reading that right...

EDIT: Wrong edition, oops


----------



## Barnster

Current marine book was 5th ed, the first one if I recall

I'm not going to 100% yet but if the marine models are good and the chaos models are good and its good value I may end up buying 2 sets like I did for Isle of Blood.

I'm hoping they stick to the redemptionist/ DoW style for the cultists rather than mutants, I like the idea that cultists have made a choice to follow chaos rather than being forced to due to marginalised stigma


----------



## Stephen_Newman

SilverTabby said:


> I believe the DA book is early 4th Ed? The High Elf book was not 2 editions out of date when they were reintroduced as the starter set choice.


Nah. They were late mid 4th ed with Chaos, Daemons and Orks following them. They were preceeded by Space Marines, Tyranids, Black Templars, Tau and Eldar.

Anyways I don't think I will buy this set. Neither of the armies suit my playstyle. I was kinda half thinking they might do a tiny allied unit in each one like a squad of inducted Stormtroopers for the Dark Angels to represent some helpful inquisition help and a unit of "proper" Daemons to represent summoned reinforcements.

Then again it sounded cooler in my head perhaps.


----------



## Vanchet

Sounds unusual-specially with the tac having the choice of 2 plasmaguns


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Vanchet said:


> Sounds unusual-specially with the tac having the choice of 2 plasmaguns


That's what I meant. There are Codex's that let you do that within a single unit, but DA doesn't specify that at all.


----------



## Vanchet

Only other 2 troops can do that are BA Assault Marines and Grey hunters


----------



## Callistarius

Vanchet said:


> Sounds unusual-specially with the tac having the choice of 2 plasmaguns


This might signify a DA return to old-school DA - where they were plasma heavy. That, along with Deathwing & Ravenwing was a defining trait of DA in Rogue Trader and 2nd ed with Codex: Angels of Death. The fluff always said they had more termie suits, and more and better maintained plasma weapons, than other Chapters had access to.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Callistarius said:


> This might signify a DA return to old-school DA - where they were plasma heavy. That, along with Deathwing & Ravenwing was a defining trait of DA in Rogue Trader and 2nd ed with Codex: Angels of Death. The fluff always said they had more termie suits, and more and better maintained plasma weapons, than other Chapters had access to.


Would be nice. The last codex suggested they loved plasma but didn't really have anything to support that idea that C:SM didn't get. Though the way it handled Deathwing and Ravenwing mostly worked, just not as well with the newer codex's. Still slightly better than 3rd Ed's version of take 100% one or the other.

Funny the Tactical squad's gear was a bit more subtle of a hint than 20 cultists. If this is the set it doesn't really seem like they could put off either codex for very long, as minor as the DA gear deviarion is...


----------



## Zetronus

I was really hoping for something different - maybe I have secretly wanting another Battle for McCragg set....

just not into DA and Chaos (at the moment) - I was hoping to pickup the set for the mini - 6th ed rules.... sadly the models / mini's are not going to be for me... thus I bought the 6th ed rulebook instead.

I wonder if there are any cheap 4th ed - Battle for McCragg sets left unsold?


----------



## Barnster

Zet I've been looking for a battle of macragge set for cheap for years, but no luck, I'm sure GW would have shifted them all before the new ed hit and only small stockist have a chance to still have one, non I've found ever did 

That said I prefer the army route rather than 3 squads that was in BfM


----------



## Dicrel Seijin

Zetronus said:


> I wonder if there are any cheap 4th ed - Battle for McCragg sets left unsold?


When my friend was trying to get me into 40K (he succeeded, obviously), we went looking for a BfM box. He played Tyranids and I had been sold on SM, so it was ideal. We scoured the shops here and then tried online. There weren't any to be found. We finally had to settle for the AoBR box that I split with the Ork player of our group.


----------



## fynn

@zet, i still have the nids from that set, and there still on sprue, give me a shout if your intrested in em


----------



## jonsgot

Looks like we may not need to wait much longer to find out. There's something on bols about it coming out in August. Can't remember if I'm allowed to post links here.


----------



## FallenAngelsRedeemed

I would like to say that while they claim it is DA as the marine force .. those stats really lead me to believe that they are just vanilla marines. The libby has a BS of 4? DA characters all have BS of 5. The looks of it and makes me a little worried that DA wont be getting a dex any sooner then anyone hoped is that these stat lines for the marines are all regular vanilla marines.

Now im not very "informed" on these subject but those pages look a little like the ones pulled from the rule book with the little robed guys on the page. Could this not be a really good fake? Do they print chinese versions before they or at same time as all the other language prints?

Just what i think.

I do see the initiative 5 on the libby too so that is in favor of the DA as no regular libby to my knowledge is I5 but we are nerfing our BS on something we have had over all other marines for 3 editions?


----------



## Zetronus

fynn said:


> @zet, i still have the nids from that set, and there still on sprue, give me a shout if your intrested in em


You do!?

oh boy oh boy! my Genestealers have been waiting for some friends =) 

PM on route!


----------



## SilverTabby

English editions are done first, finalised, then translated. 

Do any other specialist codeces have stats better than vanilla for their generic commanders? To be fair, marines in the box are usually vanilla to appeal to the widest range of players, I was a little (pleasantly) surprised at the rumours that it was a specialist chapter in there.


----------



## scscofield

Only reason I think it is likely DA is because the 'Learn to paint with Marines' starter paint box is now DA and not Smurfs.


----------



## Insanity

This should be great, I've been wanting to start a DA army for ages now, I can sell of the chaos (or keep them for bits, maybe even do a Fallen count as army). And get the rule book 

Wonder how much it will cost though :S seems like it will be rather expensive.

@SilverTabby, there has been a lot of foreshadowing of the Dark Angels involvement in 6th edition, The rulebook cover, the new started painter set, the rulebook on the GW site has an image opened up on the Dark Angels page and even the White dwarf spines creating an image of Dark Angels.


----------



## scscofield

Take the AotBR price, add another 20%. You probably will be close to the right price then.


----------



## MadCowCrazy

I'm thinking about getting 2 boxes for the Chaos Bits, anyone interested in splitting the costs and getting the DA bits?


----------



## Pride365

MadCowCrazy said:


> I'm thinking about getting 2 boxes for the Chaos Bits, anyone interested in splitting the costs and getting the DA bits?


I would so send you the Chaos bits if I could have the DA


----------



## MadCowCrazy

Pride365 said:


> I would so send you the Chaos bits if I could have the DA


Hmm, would prefer someone in europe to save some money on the shipping costs.
I think people should try to set up pairings in the trading area of the forums, I think ALLOT of people will be interested in splitting boxes.

An interesting idea for webshops would be to perhaps offer this, that if you buy 2 boxes or more they could split up the sprues for you and send... nvm, would probably be waaay to much work.


----------



## scscofield

Not me I am a greedy bastard and want it alll to myself


----------



## Pride365

MadCowCrazy said:


> Hmm, would prefer someone in europe to save some money on the shipping costs.
> I think people should try to set up pairings in the trading area of the forums, I think ALLOT of people will be interested in splitting boxes.
> 
> An interesting idea for webshops would be to perhaps offer this, that if you buy 2 boxes or more they could split up the sprues for you and send... nvm, would probably be waaay to much work.


All right then..........


----------



## Karyudo-DS

SilverTabby said:


> Do any other specialist codeces have stats better than vanilla for their generic commanders? To be fair, marines in the box are usually vanilla to appeal to the widest range of players, I was a little (pleasantly) surprised at the rumours that it was a specialist chapter in there.


Well the general marines have always looked the same unless that's changed. The Captain/Master, Ravenwing and the Sergeant are so far the only models that would be unique unless Deathwing got a real sculpt and aren't generic terminators so either way the models are generic enough you COULD use them for other chapters.

Far as the stats, he is correct that all the HQ's have 5's in the DA book but the librarian is otherwise mediocre for the powers until now. Maybe it's been changed for that. That stat difference and the double plasma gun seem both minor things but it might suggest their book wont be really far behind. Would sort of suck to start making an army and having to downgrade your tacticals a little after getting the real codex, like waking up from a dream...only to be surrounded by crappy reality.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I hope the models don't have to much iconography on them that relate them to specific chapter or god.


----------



## PlagueMarineXenon

Words_of_Truth said:


> I hope the models don't have to much iconography on them that relate them to specific chapter or god.


Given that it's the starter set, I doubt they will. They'll probably be generic CSM with chaos undivided.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I might use the introduction of this set to finally get a simple bog standard army painted, no frills, no forgeworld, little in the way of conversions, just a simple looking army. I have so many ideas and such I make tons of armies and never finish them, maybe if I keep it simple I'll finally have a finished one.


----------



## serberk

not to ruin the day of anyone but here in italy i've heard rumors of the star set divided, one box with only chaos and one with only DA, and while i hope as you all assume that the box is only one, the number of models seem to make that rumor more possible, way more models than everyone expected for a single box.


----------



## humakt

serberk said:


> not to ruin the day of anyone but here in italy i've heard rumors of the star set divided, one box with only chaos and one with only DA, and while i hope as you all assume that the box is only one, the number of models seem to make that rumor more possible, way more models than everyone expected for a single box.


If this is true, it would be fine with me. My son wants the DA minitures and I dont really want any more CSM. But I have doubts GW would go this way. They have always gone for a playable game in a box, so 2 armies, starter rules and recently full mini rule book. Plus those annoying slightly out of shape rulers.


----------



## bitsandkits

serberk said:


> not to ruin the day of anyone but here in italy i've heard rumors of the star set divided, one box with only chaos and one with only DA, and while i hope as you all assume that the box is only one, the number of models seem to make that rumor more possible, way more models than everyone expected for a single box.


what you have heard is wrong



humakt said:


> Plus those annoying slightly out of shape rulers.


those are rulers? i thought they were for whipping and poking your opponent if you win


----------



## SilverTabby

No, they're for smacking customers who refuse to take their elbows off the gaming tables... :wink:


----------



## Bindi Baji

bitsandkits said:


> what you have heard is wrong


what he said, with an exclamation mark on the end


----------



## Karyudo-DS

serberk said:


> not to ruin the day of anyone but here in italy i've heard rumors of the star set divided, one box with only chaos and one with only DA...


Those are referred to as Battleforces. If they did that with a starter there would be literally no point to it existing. It wouldn't start you playing the game because you would need to go out and buy an opponent army which right now you can do by buying the rulebook and buy any battleforce off the shelf.




serberk said:


> the number of models seem to make that rumor more possible, way more models than everyone expected for a single box.


Um...isn't there literally ONE more model rumored than AoBR in the box? Not sure that qualifies as "way" more anything.

GW likes money, but this just seems unlikely. If you make it harder for completely new people to find out about and play the game you've failed and that's all this would do. For people like us that setup would be great but we already know about the game and aren't the target audience at all, the set simply isn't made for us really.


----------



## Voss

serberk said:


> not to ruin the day of anyone but here in italy i've heard rumors of the star set divided, one box with only chaos and one with only DA, and while i hope as you all assume that the box is only one, the number of models seem to make that rumor more possible, way more models than everyone expected for a single box.


That rather defeats the point of a starter set. And the model count isn't all that high, when you get right down to it (47... even if you 'count' the terminators and bikes as double, and the dread as 5 models, the equivalent of sprues for 60 models isn't excessive for a starter set).


----------



## Orochi

bitsandkits said:


> those are rulers? i thought they were for whipping and poking your opponent if you win


Well that's what I've always done with them.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Hmm, didn't really notice it before but the translation about the plasma guns is wrong. One looks like a plasma cannon. No 2 marines have the same weapon from the look of it and the plasma cannon stats are sitting right about the plasma gun stats.


----------



## Sephyr

I know few people will actually use the forces in the starter to play games against each other, but...wow, this is almost ridiculously unbalanced. You could likely remove either the DA captain or tac squad and the rest would still crush the chaos force handily.

If it is played out of the box like that, I predict two new SM players for each set purchased, and one load of eBayed csm stuff so the person can buy Space wolves instead.


----------



## Dicrel Seijin

Sephyr said:


> I know few people will actually use the forces in the starter to play games against each other, but...wow, this is almost ridiculously unbalanced. You could likely remove either the DA captain or tac squad and the rest would still crush the chaos force handily.
> 
> If it is played out of the box like that, I predict two new SM players for each set purchased, and one load of eBayed csm stuff so the person can buy Space wolves instead.


I was one of those introduced to 40K via the AoBR starter box. The SM and Ork forces were unbalanced there too. And it says so in the booklet. The booklet came with a simplified rule set (static wargear with no options to upgrade and no special rules or USRs--for example the Orks couldn't Waaagh!) and instructions on what _not_ to include when playing games (i.e., the dread). 

As it stands now, of the three starters bought for our gaming group. I'm playing Salamanders and Orks, one friend is playing Orks only, and another is playing BA.


----------



## Achaylus72

I came into WH40K when Battle of Macragge came out and that was unbalanced as well, as for AoBR i played a demo game in a GW store and they left out the Space Marine Dready which made the game more even and as i visited more GW stores they did the same thing, left out the Dready.

Regardless i'll be getting many of my Dark Angels through the proposed starter box.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

I came into WH40K with the 3rd edition set. After you throw in the Landspeeder the Tactical squad could go take a coffee break. While I would rather they were balanced, I have yet to see a set that presented a level playing field like other competitive games might.

Sort of makes sense though, if the kids flock to Marines more than the adults and that's who the sets are targeted at, you include more Marines so they get more out of it. Just marketing.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I'm thinking with the starter set you could start a Fallen Angels army by converting the Dark Angels HQ into a Fallen and using Cultists as troops.


----------



## mcmuffin

Stuff :biggrin:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/dark-vengeance-new-details/


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Awesome! Looking forward to seeing the models.


----------



## khrone forever

cant wait for this, anyone know when it will be coming out, even roughly would do


----------



## SGMAlice

Heh! Mini Rule Book is in.

Alice


----------



## Talos

Next month I think. Really ken to see some pictures, I still not sure on the Hellbrute going to see how they do it.


----------



## bitsandkits

wasnt what beasts of war have put up the same stuff we have in post one?


----------



## SGMAlice

The Chinese pages?

Nope, that was from BoLS  This information was only posted today.

Alice


----------



## Gret79

Any chance someone could copy paste?

I can't open the link due to filters...


----------



## nevynxxx

So, some pretty random questions.....

1) Based off that model list, what points value are we talking there, roughly? 
2) Is there anything in there that would need to be dropped to make this a fallen dark angel army composed of all the models?

I have a Tau battleforce I'm part way through painting up, and I plan to get this mainly for the rules, and to have opponents for my Tau when friends come over. I'm wondering if I'll end up with three similarly sized forces, or two slightly more lopsided forces.....


----------



## khrone forever

So the word has been out for some time that the new Warhammer 40K starter box, replacing Assault on Black Reach, will (or is that should) contain Dark Angels and Chaos Marines… but is that really true… and if it is, what will you get?

Well, you might feel better to know there are still some insiders in the Stalinist like regime that is GW who want the fans to be excited and those plucky rebels have braved the wrath of the mighty Empire to bring you some solid information on the contents of the new box… information that bodes very well for those interested, not only in starting 40K, but those with existing collections too!

So here we go… and remember… many Bothan spies lost their lives bringing you this information!

Chaos Cultists are in!

That’s right all you Chaos players… I refused point blank to believe that GW would ever release Chaos Cultist, but they have. The Dark Vengeance boxed set (did I not mention the name previously?) will have 2 units of 10 Chaos Cultist models, one armed with auto-guns (with a shotgun & CC weapon for the leader and a Heavy Stubber support trooper) and one with auto-pistol & CC weapon (with 2 CC weapons for the leader and a Flamer support model).

The Chaos Cultist look like everything you’ve ever wanted for Chaos. They’re bound in rags, with metal half-masks and weapons that suit the cobbled-together, improvised look that you expect from the dregs of Chaos.

But that’s not all for those naughty Chaos worshippers; they’re getting a unit of 6 Chosen…elite Chaos Space Marines, armed with a variety of Power Weapons (a Maul on the Sergeant, a Power Fist, a Chain Axe and a set of Lightning Claws by the look of things). The remaining Chosen are armed with Boltguns, but this bodes well for the potential that these exemplars of Chaos might get some more customisable options in the upcoming new Chaos Marines codex.

To lead your forces, you have the obligatory Chaos Lord, armed with a Power Sword & Plasma Pistol. His pose is a bit static, but that is only in comparison to the much more animated Chosen.

Lastly… what would Chaos be without something big and menacing to bring to the table? Well… how about a brand new model… the Hellbrute!

The massive Hellbrute model comes equipped with a Multi-Melta & Power Fist. Suggesting that this isn’t a Dreadnought replacement, but is in fact a huge suit of specialist armour crewed by a Chaos Marine (or more likely a Champion). Actually, the model resembles a huge suit of Terminator Armour with lots of cool Chaos gribbly bits… I’m hoping for a Monstrous Creature that acts like the Dreadknight… what about all you Chaos fans? What would you like it to be?

But what about the Dark Angels?

They haven’t been left wanting and with a new codex (no doubt in their future) there is quite a bit to have a look at.

Firstly, they wouldn’t be Space Marines without the obligatory 10 man Tactical Squad. However, the Dark Angel Tactical-Squad has a twist… it’s got Plasma!

The ordinary Space Marine grunts come sporting a Boltgun, but the squad also has a Plasma Gunner and a Heavy Plasma Cannon model giving support… and just to round out the theme… a Plasma Pistol/Chainsword Sergeant.

Looks like that squad will be getting hot!

The Tactical Squad also has a mixture of poses, this time around. Some of the Bolter-totting Marines are holding their ubiquitous weapon at jaunty angles to make the squad look a bit more animated… and it works too… good job GW!

The Marine side wouldn’t be Space Marines without a smattering of Terminators… so you get a squad of 5 of them. It’s a pretty standard squad, with Stormbolter/Power Fist, with a Power Sword Sergeant. However, you do get an Assault Cannon and Chainfist option… and true to previous form… the models now come in a variety of more dynamic poses with the squad sergeant even sporting Wings but thankfully no nipple armour!

The last squad in the box is a unit of 3 Space Marine (or Ravenwing) Bikers, with Sergeant and one Biker sporting Bolt Pistol/Chainsword and the third Biker packing a Plasma Gun. The models look similar to previous Ravenwing Bikers (with that big wing banner on the back) and are probably the least inspiring out of the box.

But let’s not end on a low… let’s talk about the Dark Angel Triple Whammy… 3 Heroes!

The box will contain a Dark Angels Company Master (Balthasar)… resplendent with his erect Power Sword!

A Dark Angels Librarian… with a slightly less impressive looking Force Sword… and a limited edition Interrogator Chaplain, who’s Power Armour (including smoking exhaust details) and embellished robe might be the most ostentatious model in the box!

That’s all the models in the box… but what about the Rulebook?

I know many of you have been planning to buy the box (price TBC) in order to get your hands on the smaller rulebook. So rest easy… there will be one in the box.

There will also be templates and a new How to Play Dark Vengeance booklet, that allows you to jump right into the action.


----------



## bitsandkits

SGMAlice said:


> The Chinese pages?
> 
> Nope, that was from BoLS  This information was only posted today.
> 
> Alice


well till we see some models all they have done is rehash what bols posted weeks ago and we posted here in post one


----------



## SGMAlice

Indeed, but this new information has specific details on the models, such that i do not recall in the BoLS post on page 1.

Alice


----------



## bitsandkits

SGMAlice said:


> Indeed, but this new information has specific details on the models, such that i do not recall in the BoLS post on page 1.
> 
> Alice


Oh i see, i read is as they were just filling in the blanks around the specifics that we already knew like how they are armed and number of models.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Going through ideas as to how I can paint the DA models so they look cool but ain't Dark Angels


----------



## Digg40k

As long as there's a pocket edition of the RuleBook that I can grab off eBay. The BYB is killing me lugging it to town and back.


----------



## whiplash308

This is going to be stupid expensive. :/


----------



## Kreuger

With a little conversion work this whole box could easily become one big chaos army. There's easily enough background to justify robed chaos marines.

I think my real question is, split the box with somebody . . . .or just buy the whole thing and convert! convert! convert!


----------



## Words_of_Truth

You think I could get away with using them as Fire Angels?


----------



## Voss

Kreuger said:


> With a little conversion work this whole box could easily become one big chaos army. There's easily enough background to justify robed chaos marines.
> 
> 
> I think my real question is, split the box with somebody . . . .or just buy the whole thing and convert! convert! convert!


Buy one and convert and split another for extra cultists. 

I'm planning on doing some conversion work myself. Probably will add chaos backpacks and remove some iconography, but they sound like there is potential (especially for alpha legion)


----------



## Words_of_Truth

The DA models sound like they got a lot of iconography on :/


----------



## Vanchet

Just means more Dark Angels for me-specially when I trade the rest


----------



## Voss

Plastic, though. I've stripped iconography off of death company and GK bits, they can't be much worse than that.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Words_of_Truth said:


> The DA models sound like they got a lot of iconography on :/


I doubt it for the most part but they might have options or something. That's why I want to see them.


----------



## Adramalech

pics or it didn't happen


----------



## yanlou

Bit Skeptical arent we?


----------



## scscofield

I have to admit, I am taking BoW info with a lot of salt.


----------



## zacktheRipper

I think this sounds great..I just hope some Corvus heads are on the DA, I LOVEEE Corvus heads but I don't have anyone that'll give me/sell me any.

Otherwise, yeah i'm all in. A chance to boost my Black Legionnaires!


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

If the bit about the Chaplain is true then I want this box.


----------



## thefallen

Jace of Ultramar said:


> If the bit about the Chaplain is true then I want this box.


Im with you.
Ill buy the box just for the ”limited ed interrogator chaplin” and the rest would be a bonus. IF it is true.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Well, if its true but, I can use the pocket size brb as well. I may end up buying the Chaplain online as well as the rulebook.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

The Chaplin sounds interesting, if not overkill if he has stats in there anywhere. Overall not really much we didn't already suspect though if true...a Terminator with wings? Is it possible GW will actually make a REAL Deathwing set this time? That would be really nice and sort of would expect it to fill the new model requirements of a codex. Maybe we can get melee weapons and Cyclones in the same box...


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Three SM characters though? Seems a little weird.


----------



## SilverTabby

I'm seconding the '3 characters on one side is unlikely' arguement. For a start, the starter box needs to have 2 troops and at least 1 HQ otherwise you can't play games with it, unless they are specific box scenarios and that makes intro games in store awkward. So having 3 HQs on one side? 

I can see there being one major and one minor character on each side. This is the main point of entry to 40k, it will have the basics and some cool stuff in it, so it also appeals to veterans, but mostly it's aimed at the entry level gamer...


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Unless when it says limited edition, it is in fact just take and is only available to special boxes? I dunno though, they ain't done it before, only for the big fantasy army boxes.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

SilverTabby said:


> I'm seconding the '3 characters on one side is unlikely' arguement.


Yes and no. I personally would agree, it's complete overkill, but no one really said "on one side". They suggested a Chaplin was in the box, but if he lacks any stats he wouldn't be able to be on any side. Of course they didn't suggest anything one way or the other, but the Chinese pages don't include one so either a page is missing, no stats are included for the model, or the model doesn't exist. The latter seems the most likely unless it was some 25th anniversary idea...still not expecting that.




SilverTabby said:


> For a start, the starter box needs to have 2 troops and at least 1 HQ otherwise you can't play games with it...


It should also include a codex because you can't play without one of those either... wait a second. Being a starter I'm sure the idea is like AoBR, to not play games with it, but starter games. That's all they need to get you hooked, they you can go buy a codex, a troop kit, and maybe a battleforce or what have.

Granted I would LIKE to see an army that doesn't require all that but really? Not everyone is going to play with those armies anyway so why bother making them 100% ready to hit the tournament scene?


----------



## SilverTabby

Yes you can, because they give you the relevant stats. Want to use anything not in the box, *then* you need a codex. They're called "supplemental sales". The starter box gives you what you need to start...


----------



## Karyudo-DS

SilverTabby said:


> Yes you can, because they give you the relevant stats.


Relevant to what? The DA HQ's don't use DA stats, so you can't play them as that. Unless you're army consisted of just things in the starter. In fact neither armies stats match existing books until new ones come out unless these pages are wrong and they may very well be but, we'll see about that I guess.


----------



## darkjedi203

gwmaniac said:


> very interesting, a chaos army with 20 cultists...i'm looking forward to seeing these models


I agree, really looking forward to the cultists.


----------



## SilverTabby

Karyudo-DS said:


> Relevant to what? The DA HQ's don't use DA stats, so you can't play them as that. Unless you're army consisted of just things in the starter. In fact neither armies stats match existing books until new ones come out unless these pages are wrong and they may very well be but, we'll see about that I guess.


If you are playing the scenarios given in the box, then they give you the stats of the troops you use. That's what I meant by 'relevant stats'. You can play with everything that comes in the box. 

If you want to move on to 'proper' 40k, you then need the codex. Supplemental, not compulsary to use the box contents as a standalone. :wink:


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## Karyudo-DS

Ah okay. Yeah I was thinking that once buy a codex the stats in the box simply don't apply, at least until both codex's are updated. Though the DA inconsistencies likely wont make a huge difference and the models could practically be used with any Marine codex anyway. Either way if you went to build a marine army you'd need more than just a book...

...or take them as Chaos allies. :laugh:


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## Words_of_Truth

No pictures of these yet?


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## bitsandkits

Words_of_Truth said:


> No pictures of these yet?



loads of them everywhere, im surprised nobody has posted them in here yet?


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## Words_of_Truth

I've not seen them no :/


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## bitsandkits

Words_of_Truth said:


> I've not seen them no :/


they are everywhere, its all over the internet,its on you tube, its on facebooks, i tripped over one this morning in my bathroom, fecking everywhere


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## Words_of_Truth

Can you link them then because I've google searched etc and only come up with whats in the box, not actual images of them.


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## nevynxxx

bitsandkits said:


> i tripped over one this morning in my bathroom, fecking everywhere



I think this is the cue that it's sarcasm, and that if we knew of any, they would be linked here already........


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## Words_of_Truth

I'm sarcasm impaired  

Especially on internet.


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## bitsandkits

it wasnt sarcasm, it was jape, a jest if you will, i little afternoon mirth.


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## SGMAlice

bitsandkits said:


> it wasnt sarcasm, it was jape, a jest if you will, i little afternoon mirth.


A speciality of yours, along with donkey assassinations :laugh:

Also: Bunnies!

Alice


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## Warlord_Winters

as someone who's wanting to start a CSM army THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER!!!! AND MY BIRTHDAY IS IN SEPTEMBER WOAWDPKAEFERSFGMSLRGFKAESFMNAEfwafefaffsaf
saf
f


im sorry mekafnjsnefw argf; im losing my mind over thisofamefnkakdfaefnwenf


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## OIIIIIIO

SGMAlice said:


> A speciality of yours, along with donkey assassinations :laugh:
> 
> Also: Bunnies!
> 
> Alice


I have not made it to Donkey Killing yet in assassin's skoolin .... I am still at pooch punching 101icknose:


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