# Running ranged skinks



## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

I recently bought 2 boxes of skinks, so coupled with those I had from the battalion, that makes a total of 60 skinks. I want to mainly run them with blowpipes for the range as well as multi shot and poison. What I'm wondering is do I run them as skirmishers or have them in full blocks where I can get more in per unit?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I'd run them as Skirmishers, to minimise the impact of enemy fire/magic/charges.

Not like you'd care about Panic.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Block Skinks can't have blowpipes...

I think the block units are only worth taking if you max out on the kroxigor you can add to them (to actually do some damage) or possibly if you are going to take a shadow/beast slaan.
Shadow slaan can cast okkam's and make a skink unit S6, which is plenty to put the hurt on everything, meanwhile beasts gives you wyssan's which makes your skinks S4, which is nice... but it also means your javalins are S4, which is even better. if taking a beasts slaan it may be worth taking a unit or two of javalin skinks (do more damage then blowpipes if moving and shooting at long range and the extra S from wyssan's makes them better when you get to close range too).


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Wouldn't the Poison be better though?


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

My son has run very small units (10-12 skinks) as cheap rank and file units to screen his other units and act as as cheap diverters and flanking units as well as skirmisher units, also as a skrox unit with Krox in the second rank to hit back with their great weapons in combat. The skinks absorb a lot of the ranged hits on the unit and in combat and allow the Krox to get through their attacks and break ranks. Magic direct damage (non-template) and magic missile spells hurt skirmishers just as much as rank anf file skinks. 

The skirmishers get to march and shoot, are more spread out and harder to hit with templates and BS shooting, and have unlimited ability to reform in movement but are more expensive. Thus, my son usually runs at least one of these units in addition to a decent sized unit or two of chameleon skinks. 

Generally, blowpipes are superior, but Javelins have the quick to fire rule, which means that his unit can stand and shoot even if charged at short range and do not suffer the -1 penalty for moving and shooting. Such a unit can move within range of a tough monster, fast cav, monstrous beast, or other similar models/units (like a doomwheel or chariot-type model), shoot and then stand and shoot again. If you have twelve in two ranks of six, then you will average two wounds on the first shot and two wounds on the second stand and shoot shot within range but will get even more chances to wound at shorter range with some chance of wounding on rolls of 5's to hit. You might also get to bait and flee if double charged at range. With blowpipes, the -1 BS penalty for the movement, multi-shot penalty and long range penalty can push the BS to 0, meaning hitting on 7's and can negate the poison shooting ability unless one uses single shots (Jungle poisons special rule), so there are times when a cheaper ranked skink unit is cheaper and more effective (hitting on 5"s with single shots instead of 6's with single shots or hitting on 6's against skirmishers with single shots after moving instead of on 7's). Also, a ranked unit can sometimes hold up enough to remain steadfast when charged by small units and weaker or more limited attack monstrous beasts, infantry, skirmishers, especially with poisoned shooting in a stand and shoot reaction.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

both are poisoned

For a skirmish unit with a range of 12" assume you have to move every turn (its incredibly rare my skinks don't move- only 2 regular shots without move penalty are against buildings or stand and shoot reactions... and I normally flee anyway).
Javalins hit on a 4+/5+ (depending on range)
Blowpipes hit on a 5+/6+ (single shot) or 6+/7+ (multishot)

... so basically if you are at long range with a blowpipe you just single shot, in which case the javelin is better as you are getting some hits on a roll of a 5 to go with it. 

Where javelins really shine is when you fight against skirmishers; they can still poison even at long ranges, regardless of moving, while blowpipes would need to get into short range to keep poison (or manage to stay still). Even worse is that the blowpipes are terrible for stand and shoot vs skirmishers: you'll almost never be able to make a stand and shoot reaction and be at short range and then shirmisher and stand and shoot will take you to 7s to hit. The number of skink units I've beat in combat with my terradons is getting silly now... and most of the time they've been confident in the stand and shoot taking me down (even chammy skinks didn't do nearly enough). Also don't forget that javelins come with shields, so you get a 6+ armour and 6++ parry save... add in S4 to drop enemy AS by 1 and an easier time to wound for your hits and you have quite a potent weapon.

On the other hand blowpipes have some serious advantages: they are cheaper then javelins (always good) and they occasionally enable a small unit to do catastrophic damage to an enemy: firing 10 javelins at a giant isn't going to kill it... but 20 blow pipe shots has a decent chance. If you are combining magic with blowpipes then the best lore is actually metal, since Enchanted Blades of Aiban gives +1 to hit (poison multi-shot at range while moving), armour piercing and magical attacks... it makes a unit's shooting about twice as powerful, but you do have to like metal (which I do) since its a sacrifice not taking life/shadow.

Basically its a personal choice, and the 2 options are both fairly solid with good reasons to take each... most of the time I think its just down to the points increase of javs that stops them being taken.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Just to clarify: I would never advocate paying the point to change out blowpipes for javelins on skink skirmishers. What I was discussing was that rank and file skinks, which are cheaper than skirmishers, have a useful role with their javelins to protect you flanks, act as diverters to fast units, and shoot tough save with lesser armour and ward saves. 

My son, BTW, won second general at the last two Indy GTs he played (late January and in February, the second being one of the major US tournaments) with his Lizardman army using this strategy. He also BTW runs a lore of life Slaan with only two disciplines (becalming and +1 dice to cast) and with plaque of tepok (knows one extra spell is almost as good as loremaster) in order to run a crown of command oldblood with a max armour save and either a 4+ ward or re-rollable armour save to help his saurus unit in a 2500 point army.


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## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

so for the sake of gaming purpose, both are as viable as each other. for visual purposes, it sounds like i may just as well build half as blowpipes and the other half with javelins and proxy if i need to (though with those numbers, i doubt i will lol)

thanks for the advice guys


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

Yup! I plan to have half and half. That way you can chop and change.

Blowpipes shoot x2, which, you're paying for anyway. Which is double the chance to kill something.

Javelins are great against tough stuff if you bring Shadow, cause you end up throwing at your LD which is 6. Which is double normal, the javelin itself will be good enough to kill some units, not to mention the poison afterwards.

I remember some guy ran 30 or 40 chammies once, he said it did well, I wonder if it'd do better with Metal...... If so, might be interesting to see a shoot round from them.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I thought that Okkam's made javelins immense too... but I was wrong: Okkam's only works during combat, so it doesn't aid thrown weapons (nooooooooooo).

Running 2 different types of skirmishers is a good plan. It'll let you get the blowpipes in close to cause massed damage while the javs stay at longer range still being effective... avoiding the log-jam that having multiple units of skinks all trying to close on an enemy (and stay out of charge arc) can cause.

I'm not a fan of large units of camo's: getting anything into combat with them will mean they are dead, which isn't that hard if the enemy have enough units of fast moving war-machine hunters (or equivalent) and large blocks of infantry supporting each other's flanks will still laugh at you (you can't get close enough to fire without being charged- sure a round of shooting and a stand and shoot will hurt, but will rarely kill entire units or weaken them enough to lose to a WS2 T2 unit with no ranks).


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