# Constantin Valdor and the Heresy



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

(This Post contains minor spoilers from the 'Blood Games' short story from the 'Tales of Heresy')

We are told in all sources that Constantin Valdor accompained Leman Russ to Prospero to subdue Magnus the Red.

We also know that The Emperor dispatched Russ to Prospero before Horus' Treachery was revealed.

In 'Blood Games' Valdor is present on Terra after Horus' Treachery had been revealed. Does this mean he then didnt go with Russ to Prospero? Considering the Siege of Prospero takes place at the same time Horus heads for Terra, and Russ is unaware of the events, and following the defeat of Magnus, Russ is ambushed by the Alpha Legion near Prospero, if Valdor was with Russ, how did he get back to Terra?

Also when Horus talks about tricking Russ to assault Propsero and kill Magnus rather than just arrest him on page 405 of 'False Gods' there is no mention of Valdor traveling with Russ at all.

Is all this pointing to Valdor being absent from the Siege of Prospero, going against previous fluff? This on the other hand may explain why Russ was able to Assault Propsero, as if Valdor was with him it is unlikely he was tricked by Horus (As Valdor only takes orders from the Emperor, and Lupercal has no authority over him.)

Another inconsistency is that the Emperor is present in Blood Games reading a book, not on the Golden Throne. When Magnus the Red Warned the Emperor of Horus' treachery he broke holes in the Imperial webway, forcing the Emperor to take to the Golden Throne in order to use his power to keep the Imperial Webway sealed, considering 'Blood Games' takes place after Magnus warning the Emperor and Horus' treachery being revealed, shouldnt the Emperor be on the Golden Throne, not sat reading a book?!

Thoughts?


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## dark angel (Jun 11, 2008)

as far as i know he _was_ at the battle of prospero, leading some custodes that had been dispatched to bring the cyclopian to justice.

here is a link that should help-http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Constantin_Valdor


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

dark angel said:


> as far as i know he _was_ at the battle of prospero, leading some custodes that had been dispatched to bring the cyclopian to justice.
> 
> here is a link that should help-http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Constantin_Valdor


Yes i am fully aware he was supposed to be present at the siege of Prospero, but Blood Games seems to state otherwise. (read my post properly! :biggrin


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Im guessing valdor had his own ship and he used that to transport his troops so that is how he got back to terra
Remember Magnus joined Horus before he went to terra so that gives sufficient time

I do wonder about the fact that Valdor is answerable only to the emperor however I believe that Russ would have wanted to kill Magnus anyway
Thus when Horus enraged him he probably ignored Valdor and went on a rampage 
Once the thousand sons started to fight back the custodes would have had to fight the psykers

As for the emperor there is some unreliability but he had to get off the golden throne to fight horus which suggests that their is an innacuracy
Maybe he only had to get on for a while to secure the damage Magnus had done to the webway
thus as some time passed the emperor may have sealed the damage
ur exact quote is 
"forcing the Emperor to take to the Golden Throne in order to use his power to keep the Imperial Webway sealed"
thus maybe it was a temporary thing


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

deathbringer said:


> Im guessing valdor had his own ship and he used that to transport his troops so that is how he got back to terra
> Remember Magnus joined Horus before he went to terra so that gives sufficient time


Yes Magnus did join Horus just before the Siege of Terra began, but by this point the Space Wolves were getting crumped by the Alpha legion, Valdor with them. 

The fact that Valdor might have had his own ship is irrelavent really! - The Emperor sent Russ and Valdor before Horus' heresy was revealed, and was unable to make contact with them during and immediatly following the Siege of Prospero due to Warp Storms. So effectively we are led to believe Russ and Valdor werent aware of the heresy until after the Siege of Prospero when they were ambushed by the Alpha Legion. And then there was no chance of getting back to Terra.

This is quite a major fluff inconsistency to-be-honest!



deathbringer said:


> As for the emperor there is some unreliability but he had to get off the golden throne to fight horus which suggests that their is an innacuracy
> Maybe he only had to get on for a while to secure the damage Magnus had done to the webway
> thus as some time passed the emperor may have sealed the damage
> ur exact quote is
> ...


In Collected Visions though it states that the Emperor was on the Throne during the Siege of Terra and right up until Horus dropped his shields on the Vengeful Spirit, when Malcador the Hero took his place until the Emperor returned following Horus' death.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

I have never read these novels u have quoted so i guess my knowledge is reduced
I guess valdor and russ had different orders
I believe valdor was ordered to come back with magnus
whilst russ was ordered to do something else
thus russ would be ambushed whilst valdor would return to terra
maybe valdor returned to terra to report failure and thus broke with russ who heard a plea for help

I dont remember what was russ meant to be doing after prospero maybe horus asked him to meet him. I really dont know. 

I generally believe and accept GW fluff will be innacurate as it is made up of a group of writers with different opinions so there will be irregularities 
Lol maybe he was reading a book on the throne 
I dont know i havent read it 
U tell me?

I must admit that im glad u raised this as i love the thousand sons and want to know what others think


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

my guess is that when russ got the orders from horus valdor found out about them and some sort of argument began. this ended in russ saying something stupid to valdor maybe something like, "Well fucking leave." and so he did and left a few custodes to help so he could report russ's action to the emperor. this would explain why there were custodes present at the siege of prospero and why valdor was at the siege of terra. 

as for the emperor sitting on the golden toilet my guess is he was taking a break and reading when magnus sent his message, it wasnt the message that pissed him off in my opinion but the fact that holes were punched in the imperial webway that he had worked so hard on. He most likely never really listened to the message but believed that the whole reason magnus sent the message was to fuck with the webway. so he sat on the throne and began to fix it until eventually horus and his boys arrived and laid siege to terra. he still sat there remember until horus lowered his shields, then malcador the sigilite took his place on the throne while the emperor fought horus above. remember that was a key point in the old fluff. then when dorn brought the emperor back and they took malcador off the throne he turned to dust and the emperor was put back on the throne.


end


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## cleen X (Apr 7, 2009)

When the battle of Prospero ended Russ got orders from Dorn to return to Terra, he was about to do so but was attacked by the Alpha Legion. Valdor might have had his own ship and it is far easier to get a couple of custodes of a planet rather than the whole Space Wolves legion with tanks, titans, etc. So maybe they got the orders to return to Terra, Valdor left quick as hell because he is the leader of the emperors personal guard, and Russ picked up the pieces after the attack and was about to head after him, but then was ambushed by the Alpha Legion? 

Sounds true enough to me! The Sisters of Silence/Battle had there own ships, why not the Custodes! Maybe they had small faster ships. And let's face it! Constantin Valdor is not going to let the Emperor himself get distracted while he is taking a dump in golden toilet!


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## Epic Fail (Jun 23, 2008)

I would back a fail on the part of GW editors. This seems particularly bad however.

The emperor reading a book is interesting, I'd love to see him sitting on the throne reading a book or a newspaper - would make it more like the golden toilet.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

cleen X said:


> When the battle of Prospero ended Russ got orders from Dorn to return to Terra, he was about to do so but was attacked by the Alpha Legion. Valdor might have had his own ship and it is far easier to get a couple of custodes of a planet rather than the whole Space Wolves legion with tanks, titans, etc. So maybe they got the orders to return to Terra, Valdor left quick as hell because he is the leader of the emperors personal guard, and Russ picked up the pieces after the attack and was about to head after him, but then was ambushed by the Alpha Legion?
> 
> Sounds true enough to me! The Sisters of Silence/Battle had there own ships, why not the Custodes! Maybe they had small faster ships. And let's face it! Constantin Valdor is not going to let the Emperor himself get distracted while he is taking a dump in golden toilet!


Yes that seems logical. One problem however is that when Valdor was on Terra in Blood Games its implied that its quite a while before the Siege of Terra. Dorn is still fortifying the palace, and everyones still going about as normal, Horus seems quite a way away, it may even be before the Drop Site Massacre?

If he was able to make it past the Alpha Legion blockade and reach Terra it would probably be during the siege of Terra.



Epic Fail said:


> I would back a fail on the part of GW editors. This seems particularly bad however.


That seems to be the most logical explanation 



Epic Fail said:


> The emperor reading a book is interesting, I'd love to see him sitting on the throne reading a book or a newspaper - would make it more like the golden toilet.


Aye that would be pretty funny, although he was reading a book elsewhere (forget where!) not on the throne or in the dungeon!


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## cleen X (Apr 7, 2009)

Well, I guess we can never really know before GW gives us a day by day timeline of the Heresy! But maybe they just messed up? Because thats probably what happend after all! GW messed up, yes it happens. Quite a lot it seems. GW got people that go through the books and makes sure they dont have any big fluff mistakes, like the space marines being migdets or something like that. It looks like they missed the part of Valdor having the ability to be at to places in the same time.

But really, I am sure GW have a good sound explanation, even though we´ll never hear it.

cleen X


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## Legio Custode (May 20, 2009)

The Emperor was reading the book in the Hall of Leng and he was sat on the floor reading the book whilst Amon Tauromachian tried to assassinate him (_tried being the operative word_) in Blood Games. 

The fluff from *GW* is very inconsistent, In Blood Games the news of the Heresy has already been known to the Emperor and Valdor is on Terra when technically he should be on Prospero kicking ass or on his way.

However if Valdor was accompanying Russ to Prospero how the hell could Horus persuade Russ to disobey the Emperors orders to bring Magnus into Custody? Constantin Valdor was part of the Inner Circle of the Custodes which meant he was closer to the Emperor then almost anyone else, Valdors orders come directly from the Emperor himself.

I highly doubt Constantin would let Russ disobey the Emperors orders regardless of who they are. Primarch or not the Emperor is above all.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

I think you're sort of assuming that the Heresy happened over days and weeks rather than Decades. 

As far as I know there are about ten years between the Dropsite Massacre and the Battle of Terra. We're also assuming that Valdor actually left Prospero with Leman Russ at the same time. It's quite possible that Valdor left after the battle was won and left the Space Wolves Legion to do mop up operations and get itself ready logistically for the journey to Terra. 

I think thats the best way to look at it in terms of years and decades rather than Days and Weeks.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Coder59 said:


> I think you're sort of assuming that the Heresy happened over days and weeks rather than Decades.
> 
> As far as I know there are about ten years between the Dropsite Massacre and the Battle of Terra. We're also assuming that Valdor actually left Prospero with Leman Russ at the same time. It's quite possible that Valdor left after the battle was won and left the Space Wolves Legion to do mop up operations and get itself ready logistically for the journey to Terra.
> 
> I think thats the best way to look at it in terms of years and decades rather than Days and Weeks.


Whos looking at it in the sense of 'days and weeks'?

Valdor accompanied Russ to Prospero, and was present during Magnus' defeat. Following the Burning of Prospero the Space Wolves were contacted by the Khan (who had been contacted by Dorn) to return immediatly to Terra but were subsequently ambushed by Alpharius (having been sent straight from Isstvan V by Horus). Before this neither Valdor nor Russ knew anything about the Heresy, having been sent to Prospero prior to Horus' rebellion being known publically.

The point is is that Valdor was meant to be on Terra (as portrayed in _Blood Games_) at this point, not on Prospero. We know this because on page 29: 'Things have changed since you were last among us, Amon...' He having been 'playing' the Blood Game for 10 months, and was unaware of Horus' treachery until the Blood Game was over. Thus its safe to assume that the events occuring in _Blood Games_ occured around the time of (likely just after) Isstvan V. Which means that Russ and Valdor should have been present on Prospero at this point, meaning it is simply a fluff inconsistency.


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## Thousandth Son (Jan 28, 2010)

Different books and fluff have stated different things. We all know that the Black Library writers have contradicted the considered canon on 40k (as well as other writers- looking at YOU Gav Thorpe), so I suppose the same thing has happened here. I remember Valdor being present at the Battle of Terra being mentioned in the very old rulebooks, so maybe it's been changed?


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

interesting find, and im not sure but wasnt Valdor injured during the blast in Terra cause by the heretic assassian? (mentioned in the Blood Games short story)


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## leothecat (Oct 8, 2010)

Remember that Valdor had just seen magnus smash right through the imperial psychic defences that the emperor put in place on Terra. Do you really think that Valdor thought it would be safe for the emperor to leave him alive and then put him in the same room as the emperor. Valdor was always concerned for the safety of the emperor not the imperium.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Nice necro there 

On another ntoe though, Valdors still on Terra during the events of Nemisis, way into the heresy. So he must have somehow got back, it still seems largely inconsistent though. How Valdor managed to get back to Terra so quickly and Wolves couldn't even begin to make it there in time.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

or maybe the editors got thier timng wrong...seems to me that it might read, Blood Games jut before Magnus appears and screws the webway, valdor despatched to go be with Russ and haul Magnus's arse back for a right royal roasting but prospero burns and if that is not the case then there is some pretty fine hocus pocus going on for valdor to be in two places at once.....he certainly did have three shredded wheat for breakfast in that case


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

Ferrus Manus said:


> interesting find, and im not sure but wasnt Valdor injured during the blast in Terra cause by the heretic assassian? (mentioned in the Blood Games short story)


think that was Amun not Valdor


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## Romolo (Sep 6, 2010)

Having recently starting re-reading the Horus Heresy novels from the beginning, I noticed a tidbit that might shed some light.

In the book "Galaxy in Flames", Malogurst mentions to Horus that Magnus escaped from Prospero in the battle against Russ. This was just before the bombardment of Isstvan III and the Flight of the Eisenstein. Now if we are to assume the Eisenstein was in warp transit for atleast a few months and in care of the Imperial Fists for a little bit more, we could give a time table of several months between the end of the battle of Prospero and the discovery of Horus's treachery.

Also, take into the fact that during the short story Blood Games, Valdor did state to Amon that things had changed. But Amon had been gone for what I remember correctly was more than 20 months or so. Valdor might have arrived back at Terra 10 months after Amon had departed, giving Valdor plenty of time to travel back to Terra from Prospero.

Now this is me using information that is off my head, so I might be incorrect.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I think _Prospero Burn_ will give more highlights from the Wolves side of the battle! I know you CotE is very well read on the subject, but I cant see why not Valdor is able to leave Prospero without being caught in the Alpha Legion, but thats just me.  But then again, Im the new guy when it comes to fluff. :biggrin:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Romolo said:


> In the book "Galaxy in Flames", Malogurst mentions to Horus that Magnus escaped from Prospero in the battle against Russ. This was just before the bombardment of Isstvan III and the Flight of the Eisenstein.


If its possible, could you post the direct quote from _Galaxy in Flames_? Normally I would check myself but I havn't got any of my Heresy novels to hand. 



forkmaster said:


> I think _Prospero Burn_ will give more highlights from the Wolves side of the battle! I know you CotE is very well read on the subject, but I cant see why not Valdor is able to leave Prospero without being caught in the Alpha Legion, but thats just me.  But then again, Im the new guy when it comes to fluff. :biggrin:


Of course, it has always been one justification for Valdor's presence both at the Burning of Prospero and then subsequently on Terra during the Age of Darkness; that he left Prospero immediatley to return to Terra, before Russ and his wolves were ambushed by the Alpha Legion.

You are right though, I think _Prospero Burns_ may shed more light on the subject.


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## Romolo (Sep 6, 2010)

Correction. It was Erebus who broke the news to Horus.

pg 200 of Galaxy in Flames



> Horus looked up as Erebus approached.
> 
> 'First chaplain,' said Horus sternly. 'Matters are delicate. Do not disturbe me needlessly.'
> 
> ...


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

So just how fricking long was the battle between the Alpha Legion and the Wolves. It seems to now go on for the majority of the Horus Heresy, long enough so that the Wolves only arrive at Terra towards the end of the seige. Still seems a bit odd.

Date whatever: Battle of Istvaan III and around the same time the Burning of Prospero. Magnus escapes Prospero before the battle of Istvaan is over.
Sometime after: Valdor gets back to Terra. 
2 years later: Heresy is still in full swing, Horus is still not on his way to Terra. Valdor is definetly now on Terra. Wolves still fighting the Alpha Legion? 
However long later: Horus now begins assault on Terra. Wolves finally finished battle and enroute to Terra?


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## pb100 (Sep 11, 2010)

The wolves may have stayed on Prospero for a few months after Magnus fled. Destroying everything make sure nothing was left of the T-sons. During that time Valdor would return to Terra. Again Prorpero Burns will probably shed more light on this.


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## Romolo (Sep 6, 2010)

For all we know, the Alpha Legion vs Space Wolves battle could have taken a few years. Knowing the Alpha Legion and their ways, and the stubbornness of the Wolves, this is very likely.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

i personally would think that valdor was there at the sacking but once the thousand sons disappeared the wolves had a little look around and destroyed everything with a foetid whiff of sorcery. with magnus disappearing, valdor could have left for terra to inform the emperor while the wolves sorted themselves out for the next deployment which wouldnt just take a couple of hours. 
for all we know valdor could have been in bulcephlus which i expect wouldnt just be any old starship and could have got back to earth in good time.

one thing that always nags at me is in a thousand sons novel, when magnus's spirit takes a look at the incoming fleet he describes someone who has a sinister motive for whats happening and i always put that down to being valdor and it could lead to him being horus's spy in the palace. when the emp confronts horus it could be revealed that valdor was always on horus's side but has a disagreement with horus who disintergrates him and them emp cant believe how deep the betrayal goes decides to end horus totally. just my theory, rip it apart if you want


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

Unknown Primarch said:


> i personally would think that valdor was there at the sacking but once the thousand sons disappeared the wolves had a little look around and destroyed everything with a foetid whiff of sorcery. with magnus disappearing, valdor could have left for terra to inform the emperor while the wolves sorted themselves out for the next deployment which wouldnt just take a couple of hours.
> for all we know valdor could have been in bulcephlus which i expect wouldnt just be any old starship and could have got back to earth in good time.
> 
> one thing that always nags at me is in a thousand sons novel, when magnus's spirit takes a look at the incoming fleet he describes someone who has a sinister motive for whats happening and i always put that down to being valdor and it could lead to him being horus's spy in the palace. when the emp confronts horus it could be revealed that valdor was always on horus's side but has a disagreement with horus who disintergrates him and them emp cant believe how deep the betrayal goes decides to end horus totally. just my theory, rip it apart if you want


as interesting as that sounds i can't believe that Valdor is a turncoat its possible i suppose but i always assumed the Custodians were utterly loyal to the emp i was thinking maybe malcador..mister sigilite/grand assassin now he would be one that i'd put that too icknose:


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## AdonisGallus (Sep 19, 2010)

The Primarchs were supposed to be utterly loyal, we're all currently reading how that turned out.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

gothik said:


> as interesting as that sounds i can't believe that Valdor is a turncoat its possible i suppose but i always assumed the Custodians were utterly loyal to the emp i was thinking maybe malcador..mister sigilite/grand assassin now he would be one that i'd put that too icknose:


well the sigillite wasnt at prospero so it cant be him and by the way its worded it does seem like its valdor they are on about. but seeing as the sigillite is second only to Him i can see that maybe he has had his own dealings with warp entities and that could make sense, just not in the thousand sons sense.


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## AdonisGallus (Sep 19, 2010)

Sigillite took the place of the Emperor on the Golden Throne so he would be free to go and deal with Horus, if he had been a traitor would it not have been easier to just get up once the Emperor was on board Horus' flag ship?

And not sure how true this is, but when the Emperor finally did return to be placed on the Golden Throne didnt Sigillite give the last ounce of his power as he turned to dust so that the Emperor might be revived long enough to give instructions to Dorn?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Yeah theres no chance of the Sigilite being a traitor


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Taken from lexicanum (which I know you dont trust), that marks Collected visions, page 344.



> The Khan was contacted by Leman Russ who had just returned from Prospero and offered him to join forces. Horus however had anticipated this and had send the Alpha Legion who launched an assault on Russ' outnumbered Space Wolves.


Not sure if that gives much light to anything or where Im heading with it but could there be anything about Russ waiting for Khan to join him, and during that waiting (as Khan could be s**t far from there), that Alpaha Legion had time to muster and then attack, which could prologned over years of time-span?

Where did the attack of the alpha Legion against the Wolves take place?


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## Boreas9 (Jun 2, 2011)

So its not possible for the Einstein to have warned the emperor before Magnus reached out to the Emperor to warn him, which sent the Space Wolves and Custodes out to Prospero?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Boreas9 said:


> So its not possible for the Einstein to have warned the emperor before Magnus reached out to the Emperor to warn him, which sent the Space Wolves and Custodes out to Prospero?


You have to take into account that the _Flight of the Eisenstein_ occured after Isstvan III and led to Isstvan V. Magnus had realised Horus was being corrupted by Chaos a while before Isstvan III (during the Davin incident). Magnus wasn't even aware that warning would be brought to Terra by loyal remnants of the rebels, and didn't want to risk Astrotelepathy or stall with taking the warning to Terra in person. That is why he chose to warn the Emperor via sorcerous means, and you can certainly sympathise with his reasoning.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

The Sacking of Prospero happened before Horus's Treachery as Horus had spoken to Leman Russ prior to it happening, it's possible he returned to Terra as soon as the Sacking of Prospero occured.

That's how I saw it.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

What we know is that six months after the battle of Prospero there is nobody left (source: Rebirth). We know that major parts of Horus forces looked for Corax on the planet for 90 days (Ravens flight), and they looked for fleeing ships in the sector. BUT it doesnt necessary mean that Alpha Legion sticked around that long.

Magnus triggered away the whole battle for Prospero while Horus were on Davin (False Gods & A Thousand sons) and we know that he had got to the Planet of Sorcerers and contacted Maloghurts and Horus at the end of Issvan III (Galaxy in flames). Magnus is a part of Horus gang 4 days after the Dropsite massacre and have come to the summit of the primarchs but only in spirit (ADB novella).

That would give Valdor quite some time to leave Prospero IMO before the Wolves got snatched up by Alpha Legion.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

Wow! This thread is old.

The other subject of the thread: Why wasn't the Emperor on the throne?

This cropped up again after Nemesis came out.

I think Jim Swallow said that this would be explained in a future book.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

increaso said:


> Wow! This thread is old.
> 
> The other subject of the thread: Why wasn't the Emperor on the throne?
> 
> ...


Yeah you are right, I just wanted to add my thoughts about it.


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