# Orks vs Tau



## Iskander (Apr 2, 2009)

I played wh 40K 20 years ago, and recently took up the game again. 
New rules, new armies. I'm trying to find my way again.

So I'll be playing a 1250 pts game of orks vs Tau.
Since I don't know the Tau, except that they're a shooty army, I don't know what would be the best option to take them on.

The basis is clear (well fairly clear, cos I made about a zilion different army lists) a warboss an 2 big troops. I also have a Nob mob with pain boy.
But then: should I go for hvy support (battle wagon) or fast attack (warbuggies and deffkopta's)?

Any suggestions are welcome.


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

I've been destroyed by orks in battlewagons. Tau generally are only really destructive if we can concentrate fire. Railguns can do a number on vehicles, but I would recommend red paint jobbed trucks for your boyz and a Battlewagon and KFF mech for your warboss and nobs mob. Deploy as close as possible to the enemy. Your target priority should put fire warriors and crisis suits very close to the top. If you cannot catch all of the suits in an initial charge, use your Waaagh! to catch them, otherwise they should never be caught. Fire warriors are only BS 3, as is most of the army, but if your opponent is running markerlights, find them and kill them as soon as possible as they can raise the army's ballistic skill at one particular target or drop cover saves.


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## Iskander (Apr 2, 2009)

I still have to find my way of playing orks, so I'll be testing different stuff in the future.

I decided on the following army list

warboss in mega armour
+ retinue
5 nobz, in eavy armour, with waagh banner, power klaws and big choppa's
including a pain boy

dedicated transport = battle wagon 

troops 2 x 29 ork boyz + nob with power klaw per troop

elites: 7 kommando's + kommando nob with power klaw (to engage them as fast as possible in cc)

fast attack: 3 deffkopta's (these models are so great) - also to engage them as fast as possible in cc

hvy support : 2 killa cans. After reading one of the ork tactica's yesterday I decided these would be a nice addition


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

Tau are an interesting army to fight as an ork. THey are fast and can outshoot orks in most cases. Now there are two main schools of thought on how to beat them with orks. The first is to just swam them with boyz in a green tidal wave. THey can't kill all of them and as the wave moves down the board it restricts where they can run. The second is to jump on top of them as quickly as possible and beat them in close combate. 

So you are either going to need way more boyz or way more fast stuff because right now you kind of have a little of both but not enough of each to really make the tau suffer. 

Your lone battle wagon will probably draw all the rail gun fire first meaning your boss and nobs are probably going to be toast in the first turn or two. A mega-armored warboss is terrible walking because that slow and purposeful rule means that if he survives the wagon blowing up he probably won't be fighting the rest of the game and if the nobs are with him they move at his speed which is terribly slow. Now your three deffkoptas might be a good distraction in the first turn or two. 
I would go with a basic boss on foot even though tooled up with pk, attack squig, Eavy Armor and such he is just as expenive as a mega-armored boss, he doesn't suffer from the slow and purposeful rule.
For your elites I would drop the kommandos, unless you are putting boss snikrot in as the leader, I would take a unit of lootas. They can provide long range fire that will wipe out crisis suits, devil fish and fire warrior squads and Tau hate to be out shoot and these guy's can do it. 
Killa kans are great but against a fast moving army like tau that can punch through thier armor you may want to take something else. I'm not sure the two lone kans are going to do much against tau. Tau and necrons are the only two armies I don't like to use kans against they just have to many weapons to drop them. Maybe some big guns like lobba's or kannons are murder on tau armies. Lobba's just destroy firewarrior and kroot squads.

Anyway hope this helps some.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

On the Killa Kans. Hammerheads with Railgun hit them on a 3, penetrate on a 2, destroy on a 2+. 

With Deff Koptas you may have hit the nail firmly on the head, unless they have a Kroot screen. Don't bother with Rokkits, use Big Shootas, the impact of even t-l Rokkits is a lot less than the impact of CC on non-Kroot/Vespid Tau units.


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## Kronus (Mar 1, 2008)

morfangdakka said:


> Tau are an interesting army to fight as an ork. THey are fast and can outshoot orks in most cases. Now there are two main schools of thought on how to beat them with orks. The first is to just swam them with boyz in a green tidal wave. THey can't kill all of them and as the wave moves down the board it restricts where they can run. The second is to jump on top of them as quickly as possible and beat them in close combate.


I would like to add that there is third little known school of thought that is derivation of the first and is by far the most effective. Tau are very shooty but what few people consider is how very shooty Orks can be if tweaked probably, in fact though few people are aware of this, properly tooled an Ork Gun line will make a mockery of a Tau one.

A shooty horde should have a BM with a KFF, a BM with a SAG, 3+ shoota Mobs (large ones) and 1-3 units of lootas as well as a sprinklings of big guns, buggies and deff koptas. Even Freebooters should be considered. Be aware the multiple Loota units win you any friends.

Why such a list and why will it wipe Tau of the face of the earth? Let me tell you why in a few short points:

1) A Mismatch of Ranges - Tau have the most impressive and long range AT (anti-tank) weapons in the game and the best basic gun. Yet despite these and other vaunted long range weapons others would kill the grandmothers to get tau have a big problem few people even both to consider. They have no effective mid range weapons and their long range ones are only questionable effective against infantry. They only one to worry about is the infamous HH sub-munitions but given that most men should either be in cover or protected by a kff casualties even here should be limited. The optimum range for a Tau gun line is either 48+ (beyond the range of most others AT) or at 15" and lower (where a lot of the firepower such as burst cannons t 18” and rapid firing pulse rifles come in at 15”). The have almost no long range anti-infantry guns like heavy bolters and autocannons. Unfortunately the optimum range of the Ork gun line covers this precise gap 48-18 inches. Keep within this range and you will find the damage to your army given cover saves and that is a horde one and by definition large to be negligible. On the otherhand your opponent will be facing so many str 7-4 shots you will need a dice bucket on hand. A loota squad can pump out up to 45 str 7 shots every turn.

2) Damage Output: Assuming your staying at the above range which is actually quite easy since Tau commanders will not want to advanced if possible for fear of assault. At 18 inches a 12 man Tau firewarrior will on average fire 12 shots, hit with 6 and cause 4 wounds which with a 4+/5+ cover save will mean 2 lost. Given your running horde shoota two of 30 is nothing. However if all 30 of your men shoot assuming we have 3 big shootas and a pk nob we are talking 58 shoota shots and 9 big shoota shots, 19 of the first and 3 of the latter hitting, 13 and 3 of the former wounding totalling 16 wounds which on a 4+ cover or armour equates to 6 dead. In effect a shoota mob at 18" will do 3 times as much damage as a firewarrior squad.

Lootas are even worse, despite only been str 7 they can regularly take out HH with a front armour of 13 even with disruption pods granting a 4+ cover save.

30 shots, 10 will hit, of which 2 will glance and one will get passed the save. Even if you fail to immobilise it you can shake them every turn pretty much knocking them out of the game. At devilfish you will get 2 glances, 2 pene, 3 of each if you get a lot of shots almost guaranteeing its destruction. Times by 3 and you can kill or put out of commission 3 skimmers every turn. Since Tau mech lists are the most effective and thus common you can effective grab yourself around 5 kp and cripple your opponent beyond recovery in two turns of shooting.

It should be mentioned this list is not good vs AV 14 but since Tau don’t have any this is academic

3) Still heaps at combat - Despite the clear shooting superiority of the Ork horde gun line even shoota Orks are considerably better then Tau in combat, not only does this mean that 9/10 they wont close down the gap and thus leave you at your preferred range but not there’s but it means that you can spread about the board taking advantage of their numbers to limit their movement, control all the objectives and charge if they get too close.

In short the best way is to beat Tau at their own game, they are so dependant on shooting and skimmers that if you take units that can out shoot them and neutralise there skimmers then they can be mercilessly wiped out.

I defeated my friend who is a seasoned Tau player with a pretty bad shooty list that involved the Orks most point ineffective unit, the freebooters only 2 weeks back and saw him capitulate by turn 4, with all his suits and the 2 HH down and only one transport that could move and 3 of the 6 original fire warrior units intact.


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## Iskander (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks for the advice guys.
I've redrawn the army list, taken another 30 ork mob and loota's. Dropped all transport, nobz mob and kommandos but kept the deffkopta's and the buggies.

The fight's tommorrow night, so I'll let you know how it went.


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Kronus, my hat is off. I never would have thought of that tactic against Tau and I am now preparing for this eventuality. Iskander, Kronus is right on the money in most of his statements. We Tau players do have some mid-range shots though. The Tau missle pod is an autocannon, but is only available on crisis suits. And 7/4 shots are ideal for bringing down Tau as our infantry only have a 4+ save. If you see pathfinders out of cover gun them down first because they can negate your cover saves, if not go for the transports, then hammerheads, like Kronus said.


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## Kronus (Mar 1, 2008)

Underground Heretic said:


> Kronus, my hat is off. I never would have thought of that tactic against Tau and I am now preparing for this eventuality. Iskander, Kronus is right on the money in most of his statements. We Tau players do have some mid-range shots though. The Tau missle pod is an autocannon, but is only available on crisis suits. And 7/4 shots are ideal for bringing down Tau as our infantry only have a 4+ save. If you see pathfinders out of cover gun them down first because they can negate your cover saves, if not go for the transports, then hammerheads, like Kronus said.


Thanks, though I must take a moment to apologise for my appalling grammar. I was being distracted to high heaven at the time. Thanks for clearing up some facts especially on missile pods which I forgot to mention but the general content remains true

Shooty Orks are most certainly the way to go in this light. For all Tau players who see an Ork Shooty list coming my advice is to do something very un-Tau like: be aggressive. They may not look hot shots, and truth be told they arent but the multishot nature of their weapons on mass will rip you apart if you adopt the standard system of holding back picking off priority targets before zooming in turn 5 and 6 to seize the objective cause you either wont exist by then or more likely every one of the objectives will be enemy hands with yourselves in no position to claim them. I will not lie to you its uphill struggle and requires some original thought but it is possible. 

Another reminder for Ork Warlords out there avoid cc heavy lists esp truck ones which just give free KP away. Remember the Tau will mostly likely be in skimmers and you will need 6's to hit them with Pks. I have won battles with CC hordes but they never that easy. Remember horde lists, even none shooty ones are more effective since they have low KP while Tau are naturally a high KP army and will be hard to kill off. Add to that they have multiple large fearless scoring units on hand


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

First, +Rep to Kronus for explaining how Shooty Orks work against Tau so well. Pulse Rifles still only Rapid at 12", but that's readily forgiveable. 

It's worth pointing out that the Tau do have the answers t this tactic in the Codex - just that you're less likely to see them. DS'ing Flamer Teams would be your Lootas' bane - well worth the suicide, and Kroot can stand up to Orks, and in fact win if they get the charge. The other main problem is that the list is so specialised that it won't work against most competitive armies you face - making it quite expensive as a monetary investment...and also inefficient for a Tournament. Overall though, well worth pointing out - It is possible to win this way, just don't expect it to be easy.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm going to go ahead and call orks for a solid win.

Why?

Because filthy greenskins.


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## Iskander (Apr 2, 2009)

A solid win it was.
I'll just make a quick battle report.

Tau had: 4 hammerhead skimmers, 3 units of firewarriors and a broadside. Or so I thought. He kept 5 crisis suits in reserves. 

Orks: 3 mobs of 30 boyz. Warboss, big mek with kff. 11 lootas 2 meks. 3 warbuggies (1 rokkit launcha), 3 deffkoptas (1 rokkit launcha).

I don't think this is a typical Tau army list and the4 hammerhead were quite a surprise.

Anyway
First turn: deffkopta's used their scout ability and then went ahead and flanked the first hammerhead, wrecking him with a well placed penetrating shot. 
De mobs just moved up. The loota's had to move to have line of sight. The warbuggies took the left flank and went flat out.

Tau moved and shot, but tenks to the big mek with kff, we didn't take to many cassualties. Only 1 deffkopta and a few boyz.

Turn 2: orks moving again and shooting. Deff kopta's and warbuggies shooting in the rear or side armour of the hammerheads, killed 2 of them: a wreck and destroyed vehicle. I was enormously lucky on the vehicle damage roll. We started to kill of the fire warriors. 

Tau didn't move at all. No reserves either. There was little space left with all the ork boyz blocking the battle field an the fast attack in the flanks. Shooting killed of a good lot of 1 ork unit, but thanks to the bosspole, they did'nt fall back. I lost some more orks to a hammerhead which shot with a big blast template. 

Turn 3: Orks firing on last fire warriors and almost killing them to a man. The assault phase just mopped them up. This left only a broadside and a shaken hammerhead for the Tau.

Tau reserves finaly arrived. Flamers and blast weapons killing a lot of boyz. But it was too late. We decided to call it a night since we started way too late in the evening. The orks were the winners.

It wasn't such a satisfiying battle, because there was little suspence. But we got to practice rules a bit and get used to our armies. Next time better.

Incidentally: does the kff of the big mek not protect against special weapons which negate cover saves. It doens't seam that way, but just to be sure. 

I'll use the list again in the future. Maybe take more loota's and less boyz. 
Again thanks for the advice.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

No, KFF is a cover save, so Flamers etc ignore it. He cheated. He had 4 Hammerheads, that are a HS choice each.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Yeah 3 heavy supports and each hammerhead is 1 each
If you like the tau player tell him not to deepstrike
you want your suits on the board sitting in cover jumping and shooting. 
Taking orks of the board and also taking fire off your fire warriors
especially as lootas are absolutely despicably scary
I fear them greatly due to sheer number of shots
I think we might see the missile pod coming around in greater numbers now to combat their long range
Strength 7 ap4 2 shots is always nice


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## Love XV8 (Jun 16, 2009)

agree, for example, take piont 2: that a big squad of shotas is better than a group of fire warriors. yeah, i guess, but if you look at the piont cost.. and also the FW have a range of 30" so they will be abel to shoot at the shootas a few times. also, every tau player should use markerlights. personaly I use markerdrones with stealthsuits, and a markerlight on the team leader. then they can mark a squad with hopefully 2 marker hits. to either get the FW bs to 5 or if the squad is affected by a KFF bs 4 and ignore cover saves. also the tau player should drop a suicide team with flamers and burst cannons to whipe most of them out. though that might be a risk.
anyway I do agree with Kronus on some other points,and I also thank you for an interresting ork army tactic :victory:


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Looks like you had fun!

Just for future references, I play Orks - a lot! A list I've been having great success with, both in friendly games and in competitive games.

HQ:
1 warboss on bike, pk, attack squig, cybork
1 Mek /w KFF

Troops:
5 nob bikers /w painboy (all geared seperately - I would recommend - Waagh banner, pk, big choppa, bosspole, pk /w ammo runt - cyborks) Just a harassment unit which will soak up loads of firepower.
18 shoota boyz /w BS, nob, pk bp & battlewagon (Mek goes here)
19 shoota boyz /w 2 BS, nob, pk, bp & battlewagon
19 shoota boyz /w 2 BS, nob, pk, bp & battlewagon

( I like to put RPJ, grot riggers, and 4 Big shootas on my battlewagons )

Elite: 
15 lootas



You can fill in the rest with whatever you like - I like to try to throw in meganobz in a battlewagon as well or a reserved unit of grots or even kommandos with snikrot.


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## Iskander (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks for the extra tips. 
We've played a lot since this first game. Mainly between Tau, IG en Nids (even strangely mixed battles). 
But the orks vs Tau battles keep coming back and the army lists and pts have grown. 

I haven't used the bikers yet, but I will try it (there's this very nice warboss on a bike model from forgeworld). 
I've become a great fan of the loota's and also of a warboss, with 4 meganobs and a painboy in a battlewagon. 
Still learning the rules by the way. There's so much to it. The more we learn the rules and the army lists, the better the games get. 
Glad I took it up again.


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## Zipding (Jan 20, 2010)

Something that I know works on Tau is assaulting them with a warboss with Mega-armour. Even though his movement is really crappy, he can withstand pretty much everything and can stomp all over their gunline. My warboss has done this and he is only 115 points. He not only did this, but wrecked a hammerhead and killed 5 dire avengers in the same battle only taking 1 wound.


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