# GW Legal PIMP SLAP TalkBloodBowl - UPDATE = Fumbbl get one too.



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Very interesting debates are raging on all the forums at the moment.



TalkBloodBowl said:


> Good evening everybody,
> 
> Today I received a letter from the Games Workshop Group PLC stating that if I didn't compy with 4 directives within 14 days they would take formal proceedings against me. It saddens me to see GW take such action against a perfectly legitamate fan site that has provided a global communications portal for BB fans, with no intention of conning them out of the millions they make in sales. I feel that I have been stereotypically branded as an Internet con-man. I have been a GW fan for 20+ years and this site has been active for almost 9 of that 20. This site has also had GW staff registered and actively contribute to its content (it may still have).
> 
> ...


http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/

Apparently the admin of some French site http://www.bbarena.net/ (a site that uses Javabowl) have received the same c&d letter. They don't have bloodbowl in their title.

I think this is something to do with the new Bloodbowl Game. Cyanide might be pissed that people are using Javabowl instead of their flawed game.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Jezlad said:


> Very interesting debates are raging on all the forums at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


goddamitsomuch.

I don't know the site in question, but heavy handed tactics like this from GW only alienate players, and does nothing for the "protection of their IP". I suppose you're right that it's all because of Cyanide, but even so, a lighter approach to an older, established fansite should be considered.

I hope this is just a couple of isolated incidents, but I hear GW have been getting much more antsy about their IP in recent times. Hopefully this isn't an omen of more C&Ds to come. I know I visit a couple of sites with a GW name in the title, so that could suck tremendously if they get C&D'd too, and have to move - most will probably just fold.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

If the website is non profit and a hobby then i would advise the owner to seek free legal advice on the matter, just because GW legal have sent a letter with threats does not mean they have a leg to stand on, im not saying GW dont have a leg to stand on but sometimes they like to stretch the truth when it comes to IP and what we can do with it.

Done some research and this type of letter is widely frowned upon in the UK legal system, Often the contents and demands in a letter are bullshit and are used by large companies to bully small companies or individuals who dont want to risk getting into an expensive legal battle even though they have done nothing wrong, sound familiar?


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

So what does this mean for all the other hobby related sites out there? If they're gonna take legal action against one site for taking donations to help run their site, will this set a precedent for them doing it to other sites? It costs money to run a website, and with out the ability collect donations do they expect site administrators to fund their sites out of their own pockets? Which pretty much already happens anyway, the donations only cover part of the costs.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Fumbbl has been running a bloodbowl imitation for years without any come back. Why the fuck do they allow that and jump on these insignificant small sites? 

Talkbloodbowl is a discussion forum I've been on since Feb 2005, it's all but dead. It's actually a hidden forum, you need to register to see the content that's on it (rather retarded way to run a site since it stops google indexing your pages).

Weird call on GW Legals part. If they're going to persecute these sites where does it leave the countless others?


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Jezlad said:


> Fumbbl has been running a bloodbowl imitation for years without any come back. Why the fuck do they allow that and jump on these insignificant small sites?
> 
> Talkbloodbowl is a discussion forum I've been on since Feb 2005, it's all but dead. It's actually a hidden forum, you need to register to see the content that's on it (rather retarded way to run a site since it stops google indexing your pages).
> 
> Weird call on GW Legals part. If they're going to persecute these sites where does it leave the countless others?


Could simply be a Legal exercise, Could be GW proving they are very keen on protecting the IP,could simply be GW's legal team trying to prove its worth to management, i dont think its anything to do with cyanide, if anything i think computer games companies are for more supportive of forums and such as they know the advantage they bring to the games, most of the larger games have massive fan sites and guilds and even provide free fan site down load packs to players.


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

I would also seek out some free legal advice on this one. It could GW legal just trying to show they are good for the company and send out these scare letters to get sites to close down. Why you would want a site that talks about your product and helps promote the hobby to close down, I don't understand that and it makes little business sense. I understand protecting your IP but I don't understand this. Especially sense GW shut down their own forums site and encouraged people to go to fan sites.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Maybe their legal team was bored?


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## Ryuzaki (Nov 1, 2009)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> Maybe their legal team was bored?


Lol, that pretty much sums it up.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Jezlad said:


> I think this is something to do with the new Bloodbowl Game. Cyanide might be pissed that people are using Javabowl instead of their flawed game.


Out of curiosity, what's flawed about it?
I mean, even if the real-time thing IS flawed, can't you just play the original turn-based game?

And really, making a program that can replace the physical game is a little bit taking profits from them, or at least it's reasonable to believe that.
Vassal40k was the same thing, but a little different, EVERYONE knows that it's much better to play in person, the program did let you play, but it was shoddy compared to doing it all manually.


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

Well, on the surface they are completely in their rights address anyone who uses copyrighted material. That being said... what a dick move! Maybe use a bit of discretion? Sites that encourage interest are being told to cease and desist? C'MON! GW legal has a history of bad decisions and actions. Does anyone remember Damantus? Well I suppose now they are making their own movie...

I have a feeling that the statement about removing donations is bull. IP is tricky. But then this does set a very dangerous precedent. What is stopping them from shutting down every site which has the smallest link to their IP? Common sense you would hope.

Got to be careful I don't say anything slanderous or GW legal will be on to me... Do you think I can bring the game it to disrepute...(like football, or soccer for US users)?


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Winterous said:


> Out of curiosity, what's flawed about it?
> I mean, even if the real-time thing IS flawed, can't you just play the original turn-based game?
> 
> And really, making a program that can replace the physical game is a little bit taking profits from them, or at least it's reasonable to believe that.
> Vassal40k was the same thing, but a little different, EVERYONE knows that it's much better to play in person, the program did let you play, but it was shoddy compared to doing it all manually.


Theres nothing wrong with the actual game. Its the long winded system for finding a game that stops me playing. If Cyanide took Fumbbls "game finder" system on board it'd be far easier to find a match up. I've spent over an hour before trying to find a coach to play one of my 4 teams.

A website attached to the game with stats, league placings, official tournaments, player trading etc would polish the game off. It seems they spent ages making and perfecting the game but spent little effort on the league and longevity process.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

The donations part is rubbish as they can only take legal action if they can prove he is using these to benefit himself and there is one easy way for them to find ourt and him to prove that he's not and that's a simple bank account and income check it doesn't take too much effort. They can only really take action on monetary gain if he is making money by selling thier product or IP etc...

As it's been siad I think someone or someones at GW are bored.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

I was wondering why most sites that sell GW miniatures no longer have pictures of the miniature in question. Read that they are no longer allowed to use GWs pictures and have to take their own. It seems they are really on the offensive right now about their IP.

If I had a store selling GW miniatures I would just paint the models in the uglies way I could, take really crappy pictures and post them. GW could argue that you were disrespecting their IP but you would be in compliance with their new sh***y rules.
I hate when companies ruins the fun for fansites or supporters just because they can.
Kinda like the deal with Nvidia and AA in that batman game (for those that dont know Nvidia made Eidos program the game so that ATI cards could not run it with AA enabled, they later denied it but emails sent from Eidos to ATI confirmed it).


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## STATIC (Feb 11, 2008)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> Maybe their legal team was bored?


Or just trying to justify their pay packets??????

Much like independent Occupational health and safety officers here in Aus. "If they're not finding anything wrong, they're not doing their job" Doesn't necessarily mean there is anything wrong.

Would be a big strike against the GW name as far as i'm concerned if action is taken against such sites. :suicide:

Fucking BOOO!!!!


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## Eviltim (Sep 25, 2008)

> Our Attitude
> 
> The vast majority of people who work for Games Workshop are hobbyists. Like all GW hobbyists the world over, we love to talk about our hobby... endlessly (just speak to anyone who lives with a Games Workshop employee!). So we understand other hobbyists' similar desires. Indeed, it's true to say that talking about games you've played, what armies you collect, how you beat the hell out of your buddy's really cheesy Chaos army, etc., is one of the most enjoyable aspects of the hobby. *Not only that, but, let's be honest, the higher profile the hobby gets the better it is for all of us.*


Taken from GW's Legal page on IP, Important bits highlighted


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

I do believe that GW has the right to ask that site to comply with it's demands. The site clearly has used a copyrighted name in it's title. That is the problem. The name, "Blood Bowl" is GW's intellectual property and cannot be used without permission. If the site has taken any money under the copy-written name then it is "profiting" from GW's intellectual property. 

In all fairness, GW would be right to take action against them if they didn't comply. Any other site that has a copyrighted name in it's title that accepts any type of money, (donation or other) is going to get the same response from the owning company. 
Does this make anyone happy? not really. I don't think GW is trying to kill every fan site on the internet, but they do have the right to protect what they own. That is why they have these intellectual laws and copyrights, to protect themselves and the property they have.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Unforgiven302 said:


> I do believe that GW has the right to ask that site to comply with it's demands. The site clearly has used a copyrighted name in it's title. That is the problem. The name, "Blood Bowl" is GW's intellectual property and cannot be used without permission. If the site has taken any money under the copy-written name then it is "profiting" from GW's intellectual property.
> 
> In all fairness, GW would be right to take action against them if they didn't comply. Any other site that has a copyrighted name in it's title that accepts any type of money, (donation or other) is going to get the same response from the owning company.
> Does this make anyone happy? not really. I don't think GW is trying to kill every fan site on the internet, but they do have the right to protect what they own. That is why they have these intellectual laws and copyrights, to protect themselves and the property they have.


I dont think anyone was arguing that GW does not have the right to do it,but more that they shouldn't ,just because you can and a legal right does not automatically mean its a good idea.Games workshop would rather forums such as this,ebay auctions,bits sites,competitors,coolmini type sites simply were eradicated (read latest standard bearer for jervis's take on progress) because they are very very paranoid, they seem to dislike independent thought,they would prefer we were all spoon fed by shop staff and white dwarf. They fail to understand that they could work with the various forums,fansites etc and gain a better understanding of what players want while improving their own reputation within the hobby. Working with a fan site with blood bowl in its domain name would be a good thing if they could only realize it,yes its against copyright law to use bloodbowl without permission, well heres an idea for games workshop 
*GIVE THEM PERMISSION*


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## primeministersinsiter (May 31, 2009)

Eviltim: Jesus, I wish.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

if you do not protect your ip then you can lose the rights to that ip. its a bit like squatters rights, so with this kinda of infringement gw has no choice really as to if they should take action or not. Same with the "way" they have done it, there are lots of legal guidelines to the way this kind of thing should be done and if they send a "please can you do us a favour" style letter you can leave yourself open to "loopholes"


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

jigplums said:


> if you do not protect your ip then you can lose the rights to that ip. its a bit like squatters rights, so with this kinda of infringement gw has no choice really as to if they should take action or not. Same with the "way" they have done it, there are lots of legal guidelines to the way this kind of thing should be done and if they send a "please can you do us a favour" style letter you can leave yourself open to "loopholes"


Also true, but GW are perfectly capable of granting a license to use there copyright name for a fan site, but as usual its about money,rather than working with the online community and granting a free license to use the name they would prefer just to shut it down and put the noses of fans out of joint.
As far as i can tell the site was not profiting from the bloodbowl domain it was simply proving a fan funded forum for the enjoyment of one of games workshops games.Surely a site about your game made by fans for fans funded by fans should be treated with more respect than someone trying to recast chaos dwarfs?.


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> I dont think anyone was arguing that GW does not have the right to do it,but more that they shouldn't ,just because you can and a legal right does not automatically mean its a good idea.Games workshop would rather forums such as this,ebay auctions,bits sites,competitors,coolmini type sites simply were eradicated (read latest standard bearer for jervis's take on progress) because they are very very paranoid, they seem to dislike independent thought,they would prefer we were all spoon fed by shop staff and white dwarf. They fail to understand that they could work with the various forums,fansites etc and gain a better understanding of what players want while improving their own reputation within the hobby. Working with a fan site with blood bowl in its domain name would be a good thing if they could only realize it,yes its against copyright law to use bloodbowl without permission, well heres an idea for games workshop
> *GIVE THEM PERMISSION*


:goodpost: Absolutely spot on! 
The legal phrase "using without permission" shouldn't automatically mean cease and desist. It should mean "lets discuss how we can come to an arrangement that benefits both sides". Even if it is a case of we would like x% of donations. To shut it down does not help the hobby, the players or ,in fact, GW.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

As GW have shown I think this all has to do with the whole hobbyists no longer fueling the marketing areas and more business focuseed people doping so and they themselves probably believe that these sites don't do much but complain about product and everynow and then share ideas but not necessarily promote profit.


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> Working with a fan site with blood bowl in its domain name would be a good thing if they could only realize it,yes its against copyright law to use bloodbowl without permission, well heres an idea for games workshop
> *GIVE THEM PERMISSION*


 
I agree, but, GW has the right to do what it wants with it's property. Everyone else doesn't. If a independent site asked for the rights to use the intellectual property of GW before it went public, then you might see a different response from GW. You can't steal their stuff, then when confronted, ask for permission. It doesn't work like that.



jigplums said:


> if you do not protect your ip then you can lose the rights to that ip. its a bit like squatters rights, so with this kinda of infringement gw has no choice really as to if they should take action or not. Same with the "way" they have done it, there are lots of legal guidelines to the way this kind of thing should be done and if they send a "please can you do us a favour" style letter you can leave yourself open to "loopholes"


Exactly right. Is it unfortunate? Yes. Is it unfair? No. GW has every right to protect it's things. 



bitsandkits said:


> GW are perfectly capable of granting a license to use there copyright name for a fan site, but as usual its about money,rather than working with the online community and granting a free license to use the name they would prefer just to shut it down and put the noses of fans out of joint.
> As far as i can tell the site was not profiting from the bloodbowl domain it was simply proving a fan funded forum for the enjoyment of one of games workshops games.Surely a site about your game made by fans for fans funded by fans should be treated with more respect than someone trying to recast chaos dwarfs?.


Yes, GW can grant an agreement to use it's license, but you need to ask before you use it. You cant steal something then get permission later. It's still theft. The site was accepting money under a name that GW has the rights too. That is not allowed. They were "profiting" from GW's property. It has nothing to do with with anything else. They, (GW) may have enjoyed the site and thought it was wonderful, but that has no bearing on the fact that their property was being stolen.



Epatus said:


> The legal phrase "using without permission" shouldn't automatically mean cease and desist. It should mean "lets discuss how we can come to an arrangement that benefits both sides". Even if it is a case of we would like x% of donations. To shut it down does not help the hobby, the players or ,in fact, GW.


The letter that GW sent out didn't say, "We are shutting you down and that's it!" It said if the site conformed to the demands of GW it would be fine and allowed to continue operating. The site was either too lazy or too disinterested to correct it's issues to continue on. GW gave them the reasons and the corrections required on how to become "legal" and to be able to continue without further issue. The site gave up.

I don't think Games Workshop relishes in the fact of pushing it's weight around and shutting down illegal operations. It does have the right to protect itself and what it owns. It is a for-profit company that has to protect it's assets. 

Do we have to like it? No we don't. Do we have to respect the laws and the rights of companies and individuals? Yes we do. This isn't a personal attack against one little site. It is simply asking that they alter the way they run the site to conform with copyright laws. Everyone that takes issue with the way Games Workshop protects itself should try putting on their shoes. If you owned a company and found out that people were profiting from your ideas and product you too would try and have it changed. People here are taking it too personally as if GW was attacking them directly. Remember, GW gave them a way to continue and be in agreement, the site gave up without even trying.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

jigplums said:


> if you do not protect your ip then you can lose the rights to that ip. its a bit like squatters rights, so with this kinda of infringement gw has no choice really as to if they should take action or not. Same with the "way" they have done it, there are lots of legal guidelines to the way this kind of thing should be done and if they send a "please can you do us a favour" style letter you can leave yourself open to "loopholes"


I don't buy this.

Why do they allow Fumbbl and Javabowl to copy their game but nail Vassal for doing the same? Why is 40konline or 40kforums allowed when 40kempire was not? Why did they send a C&D letter to a site without "Bloodbowl" in the URL? 

I'm all for them defending their IP, but it's the fact that they pick and choose who to defend it against that ruins the credibility of your statement.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

jigplums said:


> if you do not protect your ip then you can lose the rights to that ip. its a bit like squatters rights, so with this kinda of infringement gw has no choice really as to if they should take action or not. Same with the "way" they have done it, there are lots of legal guidelines to the way this kind of thing should be done and if they send a "please can you do us a favour" style letter you can leave yourself open to "loopholes"


I don't buy this.

Why do they allow Fumbbl and Javabowl to copy their game but nail Vassal for doing the same? Why is 40konline or 40kforums allowed when 40kempire was not? Why did they send a C&D letter to a Javabowl using site without "Bloodbowl" in the URL?

I'm all for them defending their IP, but it's the fact that they pick and choose who to defend it against that ruins the credibility of your statement.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Sorry Unforgiven but i have to disagree, firstly talkbloodbowl haven't stolen anything from games workshop,games workshop are not losing 1 penny from the site being in existence and you could argue by forcing it to close they will loose out more,talkbloodbowl is no more guilty of theft than any other gamesworkshop based forum,for example is bolter and chainsword any worse of a domain name?they are perfectly happy to keep that site open,infact its the only fan site GW will give a table to at games day.The only thing the talkbloodbowl site is guilty of is cybersquatting, but as they have no product to sell and and are a fan forum site of the game named in the domain name, im not sure a judge would rule against them regardless of having the world bloodbowl in the domainname.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

From TGN

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2009/11/09/31255



> Thank you for your email concerning the website www.talkbloodbowl.com.
> 
> We understand that you are unhappy about the decision by the people running www.talkbloodbowl.com to shut their site down. The Blood Bowl community is important to Games Workshop and we are also disappointed that they have felt it necessary to take such a step. Unfortunately, that decision is entirely one for them and we can have no influence over what action they choose to take.
> 
> ...


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i liked this reply to the GW email.

_This is absolute horse manure. And I know. I’m an intellectual property attorney. Really. I’ve handled dozens of trademark lawsuits, both in US and abroad. Here’s all the site had to do (and all GW Legal had to insist upon) . . . add a disclaimer that the site is not affiliated with, sponsored by or related to GW, the owner of the mark. While the GW legal group is facially correct that they have to take steps to stop infringing activity or risk losing the mark, their letter cleverly only tells half of the legal story (and deceptively omits the most telling portions).

The hallmark of trademark infringement is confusion (because there is no profit here in the site’s use, that line of inquiry is irrelevant). Without confusion, there is no infringement. Confusion means that people in the relevant market place (i.e., minis gamers) would mistakenly believe that the site was affiliated with GW (which no one did) or that GW sponsors the site (which no one thought). This is a prime example of lawyers running amok without any guidance from the brand manager on customer base effects.

And I know. I write the sorts of letters GW wrote for a living. And, unlike GW, I counsel my clients to handle the situations differently. This is a disaster created by GW and it’s their own doing. They didn’t “have” to handle it this way (and their lawyers’ explanation is patently misleading)._


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Surely an option would be to send a counter letter to GW requesting permission to continue the site with the appended disclaimer (maybe in a popup on visiting).

Then if GW really want to fight it the donations link could become an interesting beacon for all those who are tired of GW IP bitchslapping the fansites.

Yes they may have made a slight overstep using bloodbowl, but not one so insurmountable that GW need a cease and desist.

Is the lawyer who posted as such interested in helping the site out in defending its rights? because we are ignoring one vital thing here, yes GW has IP rights but the gamer also has theirs - and making fan related articles, sites and pieces without fear of the legal team has to be amongst them - ffs I even read the IP several times before I started work on my Phantom model and am not 100% sure GW wont be requesting i melt it down.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Bubblematrix said:


> I even read the IP several times before I started work on my Phantom model and am not 100% sure GW wont be requesting i melt it down.


Are you planning to profit from their design?
Obviously not.
So there's no problem.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Winterous said:


> Are you planning to profit from their design?
> Obviously not.
> So there's no problem.


The problematic line is this one:



> Do not cast any materials that are based upon Games Workshop material. Games Workshop has to maintain a strict policy on this to fight counterfeiters. We would also remind you that reproduction for personal use is NOT an automatic exclusion in respect of copyright protection in many territories worldwide.


The model will require some casting work otherwise it wont be symetrical and I would prefer to a have a few different ones (poses, weapons etc), I have read this line and "material" means to me parts/components/models - which is very understandable.

But if they choose to interpret "material" as things pertaining to their IP then I am very close cut on this.

As we see with this thread GW IP department are often quite two faced with where they choose to stick their oars in - however the absence of any money being made out of my model does kind of keep me out of harms way.

I just wish that they would support their online community better, maybe actively endorsing and supporting a few more fansites might help. Policing from the outside and only ever giving negative vibes does not help their image.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Bubblematrix said:


> The model will require some casting work otherwise it wont be symetrical and I would prefer to a have a few different ones (poses, weapons etc), I have read this line and "material" means to me parts/components/models - which is very understandable.
> 
> But if they choose to interpret "material" as things pertaining to their IP then I am very close cut on this.
> 
> ...


There's a thread in the projects section where a guy is modifying Cadian models (quite heavily, QUITE heavily) to be Steel Legion.
He's casting them.

If GW cared, they'd tell him to stop.

That guy hasn't been on in months though, it's kinda concerning actually...


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

This is interesting,

The bellend known as "Christer" got a letter too for http://fumbbl.com



> I just received a letter from Games Workshop Group PLC. I will copy the letter here for you to read (note that there may be spelling errors made by me here as I had to type it in by hand):
> 
> 
> 29 October 2009
> ...


Javabowl is finished too by the look of it.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Hmm, as long as it is carefully done then a java game engine would still be possible.

The card game Magic the Gathering was emulated pretty well using software which was simply a card deck manipulation tool with shuffling, drawing etc, then you acquired the details of the "cards" from another site offering a file containing the details.

If players of javabowl and its developers really want to keep it alive then the solution is simple, remove all the references to bloodbowl, enable an xbyx pitch, open dice rolls and user input of "stats" then someone else puts together a data file with the details in - the ip infringement part, if people dont want to get such letters as above they simply input their own values.

Alternatively - buy blood bowl, find a league and be prepared to travel for your games (or webcam?)


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Jezlad said:


> This is interesting,
> 
> The bellend known as "Christer" got a letter too for http://fumbbl.com


Er, is it just me, or is the BB rulebook freely available?
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=4800003
It is.

So, the issues with 'publishing rules' are null and void, unless GW decides to remove them from their site.
The concern about people mixing stuff up though, however unlikely, is still a real and legal one though.


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## Rye (Sep 22, 2009)

Maybe it's because of the proximity to the release of the Blood Bowl videogame GW is getting so damned antsy. They don't want people to have a free Java version when theres money to be made on the game, so they're making efforts to cut down on what they see as "competition".


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

This all gets me so fucking pissed off. Next they'll be hitting fan fiction writers...FUCK...must...prepare...for...war...

although the laws concerning fiction and IP of that nature are much different...

Commissar Ploss


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I did think it was only a mtter of time for Javabowl. To be fair with GW this is does infringe on Bloowbowl the game itself. 

The living rule book is freely available, but the pitch, dice and measuring sticks are not and need to be bought. Although interestingly you can buy dice from various different places to replace the normal ones (I got some pink ones somewhere).

This letter is much better worded than the previous one though and does give more informative advise.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

To be honest though if GW bothered with bloodbowl and its other forgotten games most of this muscle flexing would be unneccessary.
I can understand that sites like ffumble would impact a little on the computer game profits but to clamp down on fansites that at the very least keep a neglected game ticking over is comercial suicide (maybe if spacemarines had their own team it might get more GW love) 
Its not just fansites and online though as rumour has it GW are cracking down on alternative BB model suppliers too even to the extent of threatening to remove starplayers from the game that have no official models to cut down on self sculpted versions.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

You can play BB without buying any of it. Rulebook is free, a game board can be made, the block dice can just use D6 with numbers colerating to results. The only thing you need is a team, which can be an actual BBone or a custom built team. Oh and the range ruler is hard to make a substitute for :S


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> You can play BB without buying any of it. Rulebook is free, a game board can be made, the block dice can just use D6 with numbers colerating to results. The only thing you need is a team, which can be an actual BBone or a custom built team. Oh and the range ruler is hard to make a substitute for :S


I think you have hit the nail on the head,it can be played for free, but thats what GW have a problem with,if they get rid of ways to play for free what will happen ? Keeeerching ! once again its nothing to do with protecting IP its about the bottom line.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

This is fairly standard and mundane C&D. The previous poster was absolutely spot on. In UK law you must defend your rights or you lose them. It's not about Javabowl , Talkbloodbowl or fumbl from making money from them either. If GW allows these sites to use thier IP without recourse then someone else could come along make a Bloodbowl game without paying GW a penny, they didn't defend it so they lose it. 

Thats not a very tempting proposition for Cyanide with thier official Bloodbowl game, if someone else can come along and make their own. Then you could say that GW could just give Javabowl a licence, again Cyanide is not going to be too happy about that seeing's how they paid for theirs. Nothing surprising here really. 

Aramoro


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