# What happened with Prospero Burns



## jasonpittman (May 17, 2010)

Dan Abnett made a real mess of what could have been an outstanding book. All the elements were there for a classic heresy novel instead we get another Descent of Angels.

Thank heavens I have The First Heretic to read next


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Can you outline why you thought_ Prospero Burns _was 'a real mess'?

Personally, I loved the book. It was _different_, _refreshing_, from the standard 'Legion X fight Xenos in Great Crusade. Legion X work with other Legion Y to fight more Xenos. Legion X fight Legion Y in Heresy' Graham McNeill book. Rock on Abnett!

Oh, and incase my little formulae doesn't work, just apply it to _Fulgrim_ and _A Thousand Sons_. The lack of originality is why I'd rate _False Gods _and _Mechanicum_ above both novels.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

bobss said:


> Can you outline why you thought_ Prospero Burns _was 'a real mess'?


I second _bobss_' question. Theres not much point in starting a thread to moan about a book if you don't justify your moans (especially when there are already several extensive threads concerning _Prospero Burns_, reviews and otherwise.) 

But I very much enjoyed _Prospero Burns_, despite having a few minor complaints.


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## Esca (Feb 1, 2011)

I found Prospero Burns to be an excellent book. I don't see how it is a mess as you say.


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## jasonpittman (May 17, 2010)

When I say mess I dont mean the quality of writing which was outstanding as usual I was disapointed with the story it wasn't a patch on A Thousand Sons. I was expecting a book as good as A Thousand Sons.

I found the book boring and it was a real chore to finish it, the only reason I did finish it was because once started I can't leave a book unfinished. I feel the book was falsely advertised I expected more about prospero. Also the reason for the destruction of Prospero was pretty lame. Magnus wasn't a bad guy he just made a mistake it just makes me hate the Space Wolves even more.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

jasonpittman said:


> When I say mess I dont mean the quality of writing which was outstanding as usual I was disapointed with the story it wasn't a patch on A Thousand Sons. I was expecting a book as good as A Thousand Sons.
> 
> I found the book boring and it was a real chore to finish it, the only reason I did finish it was because once started I can't leave a book unfinished. I feel the book was falsely advertised I expected more about prospero. Also the reason for the destruction of Prospero was pretty lame. Magnus wasn't a bad guy he just made a mistake it just makes me hate the Space Wolves even more.


Many of the Horus Heresy books are 'falsely advertised'.

I expected _The Flight of the Eisenstein _to have a Great Unclean One killing Imperial Fists (check out the cover). Did it happen? No.

I expected _Descent of Angels _to document the descent of the first Legion. Was it? Barely - only the last chapter gave us any hint to this at all.

I expected _Tales of Heresy_, to feature stories of Heresy between the Emperor's Legions. Was there any? Nope. Everything was Great Crusade era (Pre-Ullanor and post-Nikea) or Unification wars - short of a single story about the Sisters of Silence between Isstvan III and V.

Didn't the synopsis of _Nemsis_ mention how Horus sent an assassin to slay the Emperor? 'Spear' certainly didn't do that.

_Prospero Burns_ is an example of what happens when an author of the calibre of Dan Abnett must stick to something. I'm only guessing here, but if I was an author of considerable talent (which I certainly am not) I wouldn't want to deliver a book which is practically a mirror-reverse of _A Thousand Sons_; if anything it would make me feel suffocated. Really. Credit to Abnett, as much as I enjoyed McNeill's sacking of Prospero, I didn't want to re-read another 100-page battle of the same thing. 

It's like Isstvan III and V. Galaxy in Flames' Isstvan III and Flight of the Eisenstein's Isstvan III were slightly different, focussing on different aspects. I don't hear anyone mocking Swallow's, arguably, best novel thus far.

As for Isstvan V, I hate reading the battle over and over again. _Fulgrim_ perfectly detailed the build-up to the battle and the involvement of the Iron Hands and Horus' original 4 Legions. _The First Heretic _perfectly detailed the involvement of the 'second wave' and the true Dropsite Massacre - conducted by the Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords and Alpha Legion.

So, using Isstvan V as an example, after two *strong*, *enjoyable*, renditions of the Massacre (and a handful of short-stories and audio dramas) I don't want the same conflict told to me again... and again... (Of course, Isstvan V contained 11 Legions, much different to Prospero which was 2)

Also: _A Thousand Sons_ is nearly 100 pages longer than _Prospero Burns_, and these ~100 pages contains the _Battle of Prospero_. If it wasn't for these extra pages, then A Thousand Sons would contain jack-shit on the battle.

This is by no means an attack  But I thoroughly enjoyed _Prospero Burns _and really dislike people hating on it. Not that anyone is hating on it... but I do feel the Abnett-fanboy urge to defend his work.

Edit - I'm also curious as to how much collab there was between Abnett and Chris Wraight whilst _Battle of the Fang _and _Prospero Burns _were being written. With _Prospero Burns _being delayed, they might both have been written at the same time? But yes - from what I've heard from _Battle of the Fang_, it relates to PB quite alot - surely credit should be given to Abnett for setting this up? As well as the majority of the credit to Wraight for penning the novel


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Damn, I was about to come up with something like that and then Bobss beat me to it. . 

Anyway, I second what Bobss said, and I might as well add that I found _Prospero Burns_ to be my favourite book in the Horus Heresy Series.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> Damn, I was about to come up with something like that and then Bobss beat me to it. .
> 
> Anyway, I second what Bobss said, and I might as well add that I found _Prospero Burns_ to be my favourite book in the Horus Heresy Series.


It's my favorite also. I feel guilty saying that - I've loved _Fulgrim_ for years, and really liked _The First Heretic _when I read it at Christmas. But _Prospero Burns_ was flawless. Casper Hawser experienced so much character development (And character development is an afrodisiac for the Bobss) and the Battle of Prospero didn't lack at all. It was short, true, but complemented A Thousand Sons' lengthy redition perfectly. The main success of _Prospero Burns_, to me, was 3 things: It showed the Wolves participation of the Great Crusade, their loyalty to the Emperor; it is also the best portrayel of the Wolves I have ever read; and finally, the 'Horus-demon' at the end and the entire flashback-senario was magnificently engineered - but most importantly, it showed how Prospero fitted in to the plans of the Traitors. 

I don't think Abnett is the 'Godfather' of Black Library like many expect him to be. His books sparks criticism and praise in equal amounts, and encourages debate, schism and controversy. It's brilliant. He's more the crazy-assed Uncle of the family than the wise, wizened grandfather.


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

bobss said:


> It's my favorite also. I feel guilty saying that - I've loved _Fulgrim_ for years, and really liked _The First Heretic _when I read it at Christmas. But _Prospero Burns_ was flawless. Casper Hawser experienced so much character development (And character development is an afrodisiac for the Bobss) and the Battle of Prospero didn't lack at all. It was short, true, but complemented A Thousand Sons' lengthy redition perfectly. The main success of _Prospero Burns_, to me, was 3 things: It showed the Wolves participation of the Great Crusade, their loyalty to the Emperor; it is also the best portrayel of the Wolves I have ever read; and finally, the 'Horus-demon' at the end and the entire flashback-senario was magnificently engineered - but most importantly, it showed how Prospero fitted in to the plans of the Traitors.


I'm going to have to disagree with your statements Bobss, if _Prospero Burns_ was flawless then why did we have massive outcry of frustration and displeasure from readers directly after release and even popping up months later?

I maintain my argument that Prospero Burns wasn't really _about_ the Space Wolves it is more about the extent and complexity of Chaos' plans even before the Horus Heresy. The story has Wolves in it, but every detail is from the outside looking in. Hawser was always an outlander to the Wolves; a fact was never forgotten in their treatment of him from page one til the end. They allowed him to see what they wanted to be seen and nothing more.

We get to sit where the edge of the flame's light falls and smell the mjod, but never at the fireside itself holding the cup to our own lips and that is where I personally found the ultimate failure in the book to be.


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, even though I love everything else Dan has ever written I really hated the book. IT just went on and on and over explained and over described everything. It took forever for anything to happen and to be honest I was just relieved when it was done. I vastly preferred Descent of angels. Yes it had almost nothing to do with the heresy book, but I didn't have to force myself to read it.


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## cranvill (Jul 20, 2008)

iam eading the book as we speak and it seems good so far to me.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Euphrati said:


> I'm going to have to disagree with your statements Bobss, if _Prospero Burns_ was flawless then why did we have massive outcry of frustration and displeasure from readers directly after release and even popping up months later?


Okay, so flawless wasn't the best choice of words to describe the novel :biggrin: Regardless, the quality of a book cannot be judged on its reception. _The Lord of the Rings _is deemed the father of the Fantasy genre, yet despite its almost cult like status, it is abhored by many. Also, a more personal example - I thoroughly enjoyed _Rynn's World_; but I'm ready to accept it was perhaps the worst written book I've ever read. 

Other reasons why the quality of a book, especially a Black Library book cannot be judged solely on the reaction of fans: -
- Black Library 'push' their products much more than many other publishing companies: in the form of 'trailers', interviews with the author, not to mention the overall atmosphere generated by the fans upon sites like these. This builds up fan's expectations of a novel, and when a _talented_ author like Dan Abnett wavers from the 'norm' his book is demeaned. Just because it is not what was expected makes it a bad novel? Lo! If that is the case, then many 'Black Library enthusiasts' need to open their minds to different styles of prose. 

It is why I adore Abnett. He is different. One man in a company I often find stifling at times. Black Library fiction is beyond obvious at times - yet we punish a man who tries to elevate his story above what is 'expected?'



Euphrati said:


> I maintain my argument that Prospero Burns wasn't really _about_ the Space Wolves it is more about the extent and complexity of Chaos' plans even before the Horus Heresy. The story has Wolves in it, but every detail is from the outside looking in. Hawser was always an outlander to the Wolves; a fact was never forgotten in their treatment of him from page one til the end. They allowed him to see what they wanted to be seen and nothing more.
> 
> We get to sit where the edge of the flame's light falls and smell the mjod, but never at the fireside itself holding the cup to our own lips and that is where I personally found the ultimate failure in the book to be.


Prospero Burns is allegorical, simply. It doesn't revolve around a single theme, any more than The First Heretic did. I admit, what you've written above does indeed pinpoint one of the stronger themes of the novel, but surely you forget many of the others? The Space Wolves dogged loyalty to the Emperor - Abnett explores the idea that they are not merely 'Space Vikings', but are calm, meticulous killers - Guard dogs at their masters whim, only brutal when needed. In my experience this theme dignified the Space Wolves and seperated them from the more stereotypical butchers - the World Eaters. 

Your final point, quite the lyrical metaphor, still holds true, at least in my experience. We view the Wolves, their customs, their purgings and their attitudes, but we never explore this to its full potential - whilst plenty of time if devoted to Casper Hawser and the development of his character? This is perhaps due to Abnett's preference of human characters; how he is uncomfortable as writing Astartes. I do not know, nor is it fair to presume. In constrast to this, Abnett is one of the few authors who's Astartes seem real. Garviel Loken's conversation with Mersadie Oliton in Horus Rising, in which they discuss the true nature of an Astartes, is perhaps the best rendition of Space Marine-human interaction I've read; and I stand by my point that only can an Astartes be portrayed to a high standard, when it is from human characters' perspectives. Octavia-Talos another example I enjoy. 

Also, what was your thoughts on the retrospective narrative Hawser used for the Battle of Prospero? Trivial things like 'it wasn't long enough' aside


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## genesis80 (Jan 12, 2011)

Lets not forget all the references to wet leopard growls that made me think this book was meant for a 2 year old. The combination of that, the wrong title and the misleading cover were just too much to handle.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

genesis80 said:


> Lets not forget all the references to wet leopard growls that made me think this book was meant for a 2 year old. The combination of that, the wrong title and the misleading cover were just too much to handle.


Misleading cover? I expected Imperial Fists to battle a Greater Daemon of Nurgle in the ruins of a... temple, in The Flight of the Eisenstein, yet I do not hear fans throwing tantrums based upon this.

The entire argument of,'It wasn't what I expected; it was misleading...' is summed up perfectly by Euphrati, and she has convinced me that the novel was a let-down to Wolves fans (Not being a fan originally, there was no initial dissapointment :wink. I stand by my guns: Prospero Burns was an enjoyable, and ultimately good, book. For those of you who didn't like how the novel centered around Hawser - a non-Astartes, non-Fenrisian, Terran, fair enough. But those who winge that it didn't contain enough bolter porn and action, fucking grow a pair and read some real, non-Black Library ficton. Then you'll see just how little 'action' counts towards a stunning book, and how things like, characterisation and character-development, plot-concept, plot-development matters more. Also, don't give me that age-old 'Black Library books are meant to be bolter-porn magazines' crap. Because, over the last few years, BL has risen from this stereotype, and produces some brilliant books which are so much more than bolter porn.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Well said, bobss - although I started to collect Space Wolves *because* of _Prospero Burns._ .


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

I still just thought it was boring and overly convoluted. Battle of the fang was so much better.


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## cranvill (Jul 20, 2008)

Just finished reading this book and i completly agree with bobss in that this book was a realy good read. I was a little unsure durring the first few chapters but man did it pick up, i loved how the whole storey just came together the more you read.

I could sit here and retype everything that people have allready said but not got the time. I would just recomend that people who think this novel is boreing should realy just read some other types of books.

For me it got so addictive i accidently spent 3 hours sat on the toilet reading lol when i got up my legs had gone numb and i fell over and headbutted the bath =).
For those of you asking why i was reading in the bathroom, i have two teenage daughters and a wife that likes to give me jobs about the house so i try and hide in the small bathoom lol.


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## donskar (Apr 8, 2010)

What a bunch of bull. Prospero Burns is excellent HH writing and pretty good literature. No, it is not blood porn. Yes, it does require a little intellectual commitment. PLEASE stop bleating that it wasn't what was advertised. Abnett didn't write an ad; he wrote a novel. Can't deal with thinking and reading at the same time? Go rent a snuff movie! Go read my review and the comments that it inspired. You might gain some insight.


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## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

donskar said:


> What a bunch of bull. Prospero Burns is excellent HH writing and pretty good literature. No, it is not blood porn. Yes, it does require a little intellectual commitment. PLEASE stop bleating that it wasn't what was advertised. Abnett didn't write an ad; he wrote a novel. Can't deal with thinking and reading at the same time? Go rent a snuff movie! Go read my review and the comments that it inspired. You might gain some insight.


Well said. Im with you on this issue. People have seemed forgotten what an actual literature means. Book was quite enjoyable read and made you atleast think little whats happening there.


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## MuSigma (Jul 8, 2010)

Well I enjoyed the book, although after reading 1000 sons (i believe this is the prequel, release late due to ill health) I was expecting another version of the Russ/Magnus head to head. What I got was an interesting insite into the "Old" Space Wolves, and the behind the scenes war of dissinformation and lies going on to keep the betrayal secret. Very similar to Legion seeing the Alpha Legion through the eyes of an outsider.
It must said though that after reading both Space Wolf omnibus' the images created by Abnett about the original wolves was brilliant, gone were the beer drinking comedy pirates who are always backslapping and joking about being barbaric, and was replaced by a very dark moody brutal killing legion, who know who they are and what they are, very chilling. Even down to the dread of their own Imperial Army allies.
Very cool book.


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## eviltane (Jun 14, 2011)

donskar said:


> What a bunch of bull. Prospero Burns is excellent HH writing and pretty good literature. No, it is not blood porn. Yes, it does require a little intellectual commitment. PLEASE stop bleating that it wasn't what was advertised. Abnett didn't write an ad; he wrote a novel. Can't deal with thinking and reading at the same time? Go rent a snuff movie! Go read my review and the comments that it inspired. You might gain some insight.


 First let me apologize for any bad grammar or spelling on my part. Altogether this book was OK but not great. After reading the title and the summary on the back of the book I expected a book that went to great lengths about the invasion and destruction of Prospero and a lot more writing involving Russ. 

However I found myself skipping through pretty every chapter or continuous piece of writing that only involved Kasper and his past dealings with his associates. Since i did not read about 70% of the material involving only Kasper and his thirst for knowledge I could not tell you if i missed anything. What I can tell you though is that once i turned the last page I did not feel like I missed a single thing by not reading the pages and just very lighty skimming over them. 

I was greatly absorbed in writing that focused around Kaspers interactions with the space wolfs and I will not deny for one second that this book added a Massive amount of meat to the Space wolfs for me. I could have read another 300 pages of Kasper watching and observing the Space wolfs doing their thing. Infact by the end of the book I wasn't even disappointed anymore that there wasn't more of the battle of Prospero. 

I was just sad so much time had been wasted focusing on Kaspers story alone.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

How can you say it's a bad book if you didn't read it all? You mightn't feel like you didn't miss anything, but how would you know? 
Kaspar's story gave some idea of the scope of the plan to bring down the Emperor. It gave hints of previously unknown connections and plans, of strings being pulled where we didn't know there had been such manipulation.
The fight on Prospero, and Magnus' and Russ' fight, had been more than covered in _A Thousand Sons._ What more could have been said that would have told us more? We saw SW run wild, TS use the Sorcery, we saw the Silent Sisters shut down the TS and we saw the Custodes be Custodes; what else could possibly have been said that was new? Following Kaspar, however, we saw the Heresy's birth unfolding whilst those who should have been helping to stop it, tore each other apart. The ending gave us a terrible sense of helplessness, of not knowing. It wasn't a triumphal victory for good, just brothers duped into hatred of each other, led by their own personalities and complete confidence that what they did was _right_.
If I had a feeling of not being happy with the end, it was because it didn't really have an end. And it shouldn't; the burning of Prospero was only the first act of Chaos' plan, and so it shouldn't end so much as leave us waiting for what's next. And I can't wait!

GFP


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## Wych (Jun 12, 2011)

I enjoyed Kapars' story a great deal despite it being so heartbreakingly sad (in my opinion anyway)

I wasn't planning to read this but I'm so glad I did.


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

i found it a struggle to get throught the first chapter, because i didnt understand the lingo but once it explained and got it to the story i really enjoyed it and it explained some good things in it to help better understand the heresy:so_happy:


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

I thought it was a cracking book, just read it as a book, try not to think of it as a 2nd half to ATS.


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## gatorgav (Feb 6, 2009)

Prospero Burns and Age of Darkness are the only two HH novels I haven't read. I read the first half of PB yesterday while I was waiting to get out of ATL on non-rev. I have to be honest I can't put it down. There are so many great one-liners I wish I was keeping a log of them. My favorite so far: "What scares us most,' said Heorath Longfang,' are the things that even we can't kill" ... and C'mon tell me the discussion between Kasper and the G9K guy Korine wasn't pure gold?!


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## donskar (Apr 8, 2010)

Are you noticing the dichotomy being revealed here? Readers are dividing themselves into two distinct camps: those who are in it for the "bolter porn" and those who can see the novel as "literature." Some readers go so far as to skip the "literary" segments looking for the "bolter porn."

If I may be so bold, a few humble suggestions:
Read the novel the author wrote; not the novel you wanted written.
Give the author credit for crafting a novel -- assume that every word, scene, and symbol is intentional, not an accident.
Look for more than violence. Try to enjoy plotting, dialogue, symbols, the verbal painting of scenes. It's much easier to kill a character than develop one.
Maybe you might try varying your reading diet. Right now I'm "off" BL. I'm reading an 1832 edition of The Prairie by James Fenimore Cooper. Flintlocks instead of bolters. Incredibly archaic writing. But a refreshing change.
Let's try to appreciate Abnett. The BL and HH would be poorer without him.


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## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

Well said. People just assumed this would be just another hackNslash novel with another epic battle. We already witnessed fate of Prospero. I read this as Wolf novel and not as straight mirror to earlier story.

Story of Kasper took while to get into, but it turned out really great.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

The assumption that a novel is hack&slash or bolterp0rn simply because it is does not revolve around a reporter pumped on steroids interviewing Viking Space Marines and having a million flashbacks is... eh


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## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

No. But awful many have said they wanted see battle of Prospero. Wouldnt that be another slash fest? Then we got to see story where all is not panout like in almost all BL novels and someone say story is bad? This novel needed a neutral viewpoint character in order to show "new" wolfes and that it truly did.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Meh, I didn't like the book. It wasn't bad, I just feel it didn't add as much to the Heresy story as most of the other books. Perhaps it was due to the nature of the book, being that it was supposed to mirror ATS after a fashion but I just felt that much of the information we gained was things we knew that needed some clarity. My best example of this is the extra information from Nikea, the final words of Russ to Magnus, and the admission of Chaos manipulating all of it (like we didn't know that). They simply confirm facts are hinted at or implied, like Russ being much more then just a wild animal (or maybe having compassion).

I guess the main thing for me is I read the Horus Heresy novels to get information about the Heresy. I'm not reading it to get insight into a chapters/legions methods, dogma, personality, or traditions unless it relates to the events of the Heresy (The Dark Angels books or TFH). If I wanted such information I would have read a book published about the chapter/legion set in 40k or a codex.

Oh and true name magic is retarded no matter what sci fi/fantasy universe it's set in.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

What happened with a _Propsero Burns_? I truely do not understand what everyone is on about; I beleive this was a fantastic good. It was well written, insightful and gave you a huge amount of information on the reasons why Propsero ended up burning. 

As far as being disapointing to Rout fans goes, I don't understand this either. I am a huge fan of the Rout and I believe this was one of the greatest resources for SW fluff currently produced by BL. It told us everything we needed to now about the wolves. It gave us their culture, it have you their tactics, it gave you their ideology... it gave us everything. This book is the single greatest resource on the route currently produced. 

The only thing this book isn't is bolter-porn, which is ultimately why I feel that many people don't like it.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Roninman said:


> No. But awful many have said they wanted see battle of Prospero. Wouldnt that be another slash fest? Then we got to see story where all is not panout like in almost all BL novels and someone say story is bad? This novel needed a neutral viewpoint character in order to show "new" wolfes and that it truly did.


The same battle from another pair of eyes wouldn't necessarily be another slash fest no.

And technically it wouldn't be the same battle. I'm sure the Wolves engaged in all sorts of espionage, mini-engagements, etc. like we saw with their fight against the Quietude (though the bit about them climbing iron girders like gorillas didn't sit well with me) that wasn't covered in a Thousand Sons or probably wasn't even noticed by them.

I didn't say I was against having a character bring out things we didn't know about the Wolves or to serve as a plot device to reinvent them but when arguably 80% of the story revolves around a reporter's past, it takes away from the characters the people want to see.


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## Arcangel (Aug 31, 2008)

I liked "Prospero Burns" and yet, I somehow felt a little bit disappointed with it too...
I enjoyed reading the story from the standpoint of The Space Wolves (The Space Wolves and Thousand Suns are two of my favorite Space Marine Chapters)...but I think what I was expecting from this novel was that it was going to detail to destruction of Prospero from their point of view.
I enjoyed the read, it was definitely one of the better HH novels in the series (I still think that "Descent of Angels" is THE weakest of the serious and the one that annoyed the hell out of me the most!) and would recommend it too.
Btw, as a little "side note" here....speaking of The Space Wolves & Thousand Sons and Prospero? The Space Marines Battle novle "Battle of The Fan" makes a number of comments about that era/battle, which I thought was cool...that ALL I am saying, don't want to give any Spoilers away.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> What happened with a _Propsero Burns_? I truely do not understand what everyone is on about; I beleive this was a fantastic good. It was well written, insightful and gave you a huge amount of information on the reasons why Propsero ended up burning.
> 
> As far as being disapointing to Rout fans goes, I don't understand this either. I am a huge fan of the Rout and I believe this was one of the greatest resources for SW fluff currently produced by BL. It told us everything we needed to now about the wolves. It gave us their culture, it have you their tactics, it gave you their ideology... it gave us everything. This book is the single greatest resource on the route currently produced.
> 
> The only thing this book isn't is bolter-porn, which is ultimately why I feel that many people don't like it.


Really? I didn't like it due to how badly it was made up and how it doesn't fit in with the other space wolf story's......I mean come on there Blood Thirsty, Drunk space vikings!! They are more of a danger to the Loyalists then a Chaos Invasion, Yet none of that is shown in the book.......Other then them Growling a ton well Butchering people. OH....

And why the hell do people give the Space Wolves Credit for beating the Thousand Sons? They didn't.....the Custodes and Silent sister hood did.....


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## jasonpittman (May 17, 2010)

Azkaellon said:


> And why the hell do people give the Space Wolves Credit for beating the Thousand Sons? They didn't.....the Custodes and Silent sister hood did.....


I agree without the sisterhood or custodes the Space Wolves would have been destroyed or at least had to pull back.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Azkaellon said:


> Really? I didn't like it due to how badly it was made up and how it doesn't fit in with the other space wolf story's......I mean come on there Blood Thirsty, Drunk space vikings!! They are more of a danger to the Loyalists then a Chaos Invasion, Yet none of that is shown in the book.......Other then them Growling a ton well Butchering people. OH....


That's because you are wrong.



Azkaellon said:


> And why the hell do people give the Space Wolves Credit for beating the Thousand Sons? They didn't.....the Custodes and Silent sister hood did.....


The Silent Sisterhood negated the psychic powers of the Thousand Sons. They didn't defeat them, in fact a single Astartes could maul, bludgeon or rip-apart a Sister with ease. Their 'Silence', on a macro-scale, reduced Space Wolf casualties. It was the Wolves who bombarded, landed, sliced and diced and trashed Prospero - the Sisters negated one of the Thousand Son's assets and the Custodians presense represented the Emperor's 'Justice'.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Azkaellon said:


> Really? I didn't like it due to how badly it was made up and how it doesn't fit in with the other space wolf story's......I mean come on there Blood Thirsty, Drunk space vikings!! They are more of a danger to the Loyalists then a Chaos Invasion, Yet none of that is shown in the book.......Other then them Growling a ton well Butchering people. OH....


(Possible Minor Spoilers to those who haven't read the book) 

Note, that all the Other Space Wolf books (by William King and Lee Lightner), were set in the 41st Mellenium, with _Prospero Burns_ taking place before and during the Horus Heresy. 

And, furthermore - did you actually read the book? If I remember correctly, at one point, it shows Kasper talking to some people in the Imperial Army. Not an exact quote, but apparently the guy who he was talking to had fought beside several (I think it was 3) Legions, and it was the Space Wolves that he feared the most.


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## dark angel (Jun 11, 2008)

Azkaellon said:


> And why the hell do people give the Space Wolves Credit for beating the Thousand Sons? They didn't.....the Custodes and Silent sister hood did.....


You _utter _tit. 

The Wolves beat down the Thousand Sons - The Custodes and the Sisters helped somewhat, but without the Wolves; they were nothing.


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## jasonpittman (May 17, 2010)

dark angel said:


> You _utter _tit.
> 
> The Wolves beat down the Thousand Sons - The Custodes and the Sisters helped somewhat, but without the Wolves; they were nothing.


I totally disagree with you there if it wasn't for their help The Thousand Sons would have forced them off Prospero and imagine if Magnus had prepared for the invasion instead of doing nothing then the Wolves would have been slaughtered in my humble opinion anyway


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