# Bretonnia



## 12ebootX797 (Mar 18, 2013)

Just saw GW's new teaser for some kind of phoenix like model i'm guessing and this pisses me off. Now i have no problem with them making these new models. but Since i started playing war hammer fantasy , i have always loved Bretonia. Where is the fucking Bret love where is it? I have seen multiple updates for empire and chaos warriors. I understand these are probably they're most played armies, but it has been a while the army sucks. The only reason to play them is (what i thought of at the top of my head) the lance formation. Or maybe your just as stubborn as i am. Some people have tried to argue with me that they don't need a update, but that is bullshit. I hate how a cavalry based army doesn't even have the best cavalry unit. Why!!!!!! I understand chaos infused medieval space marines kick ass as well as vampire knights. Shouldn't the forces of good all so have a form of uber cavalry though grail knights should be this. Bretonians need new models a new rule book a new every thing. (dwarves as well) I know your busy GW, but please update the brets. If you update them people will play them i promise. (as long as its done well) Update them prove to me you have a soul. For the Lady!


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## Grimful (Dec 17, 2012)

I have a friend whose starting High Elves so he's pretty happy about the new updates but I agree with you they don't really need it.

They are already a pretty strong army overall, even with the older rulebook. If anything I'd update Dwarves first, then either Bretonnia or Wood Elves (Probably Wood Elves) 

Actually, I'm not even sure if High Elves are getting an updated rule book. I think they are just getting new models/FAQ rules (Which they do sort of need. Their infantry looks like crap and they have out of date models. At least Bretonnian Knights still look awesome.)


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

I wouldn't agree on the order of updates there, I love my stunties but brets and WE really need it. Dwarves are still a decent army but brets get flattened. It really kinda sucks they are gunna wait even longer for an update, especially since they have such beautiful models that I would love to be able to use more competitively.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

As always "update love" is all about who earns it, not who deserves or needs it.

High Elves must be better sellers, Brets and Wood elves not so.


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## revilo44 (Sep 17, 2010)

I hope that they do update one of three army's (dwarves ,woods elfs, brets)this year.
As I would to collect all three 

You are right magpie,but maybe because there have not been redone for ages they not selling so well.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Brets are one of the Stronger armies in the Meta right now.

As for needing an update there is some stuff in the design works according to whoreseer.


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

12ebootX797 said:


> Just saw GW's new teaser for some kind of phoenix like model i'm guessing and this pisses me off. Now i have no problem with them making these new models. but Since i started playing war hammer fantasy , i have always loved Bretonia. Where is the fucking Bret love where is it? I have seen multiple updates for empire and chaos warriors. I understand these are probably they're most played armies, but it has been a while the army sucks. The only reason to play them is (what i thought of at the top of my head) the lance formation. Or maybe your just as stubborn as i am. Some people have tried to argue with me that they don't need a update, but that is bullshit. I hate how a cavalry based army doesn't even have the best cavalry unit. Why!!!!!! I understand chaos infused medieval space marines kick ass as well as vampire knights. Shouldn't the forces of good all so have a form of uber cavalry though grail knights should be this. Bretonians need new models a new rule book a new every thing. (dwarves as well) I know your busy GW, but please update the brets. If you update them people will play them i promise. (as long as its done well) Update them prove to me you have a soul. For the Lady!


First off, calm down. Calm down. Maybe switch to decaff or something?

The Bret book is old. About eleven years I think, but it still largely works. It's certainly one of the weakest books, but someone has to come last. Being one of the weakest books in a relative sense does not make it a weak book in an absolute sense.

I'm having far more fun with my Bretonnians than I do with my High Elves. Hell, I'm not even planning to buy the new HElf book any time soon, I'm having too much fun with Brets.


It'd be nice to have an 8th ed book, but I'm in no mood to complain. Never forget, we in the Fantasy community have it bloody good. We don't watch Space Marines get a new codex every nine months while Dark Eldar languish for eleven years. We watch many different armies get new books while Brets languish for eleven years. It's easy to forget how good we have it.

I know which I'd prefer.



Vaz said:


> Brets are one of the Stronger armies in the Meta right now.


What's the weather like on your planet?


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## 12ebootX797 (Mar 18, 2013)

Interesting feedback every body i am surprised anyone even replied to this. (PS all my general anger somehow feeds into my want for a Bret update) I always enjoy playing with my Bretonians. That is why i want them to be updated i want other people to experience them and i think an update would help that. I get 50% of my enjoyment of this hobby by walking into my local GW store and seeing a beautiful Bretonian army arrayed for battle. I love to help players new to the race with my wisdom (what little i have) about them. Army's like the High Elves and Empire are updated because they are popular. This can end up making Hobby runs stale as you can find yourself always facing the same 5 or 6 army's which can be a real disappointment. I want to see Bretonians romping across the fields of battle again.

"someone has to come last. "
-Azezel


I might be misinterpreting here But why? I have always believed that GW games would be more enjoyable and Hobbyist friendly if each race was pretty equally updated. If it was equal in book and models it would make each race a fun and viable choice. (note army's can still be fun and viable choices)


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

A while back a few friends of mine tried to break the bret book... and pretty much managed. It is possible to make some filthy lists with brets. Generally they are weak, but its not universal.

But let's not let this spiral off into a "I want x redone" thread... we all have a few army books we want redone, and almost everyone agrees on brets, WE and dwarves.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Trebuchets; absolute steal.

Archers' pretty damn good for their cost.

Foot BSB with Stubborn Hat gives a 12" Ld8 rerollable leadership test giving his own unit Stubborn.

Life L4 is among the nastiest, but Beasts works in a pinch.

HKB Lord is reasonably cheap.

Lots of 6-9 Strong Knight units.

Flying Cavalry with large bases to multi-charge enemy war machines.


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

12ebootX797 said:


> "someone has to come last. "
> -Azezel
> 
> 
> I might be misinterpreting here But why? I have always believed that GW games would be more enjoyable and Hobbyist friendly if each race was pretty equally updated. If it was equal in book and models it would make each race a fun and viable choice. (note army's can still be fun and viable choices)


What I said was that, on a scale of power, someone has to come last. It's impossible for fifteen very different army books to all have the same level of power and effectiveness. Someone has to come last just as someone has to come first.

Actually, I don't think Brets are last, it's near the bottom though. Thing is, when I compare the Fantasy armies to 40k... Wow, they look nigh-perfectly balanced. The gulf between top and bottom tiers is actually pretty small.

Fantasy is far better balanced than 40k. Fantasy doesn't have Marines hogging the spotlight. We should be celebrating these things, not complaining about the small niggles.


Which brings me on to update schedules.

Here's an uncomfortable fact: Games Workshop isn't Father Christmas. They aren't actually there to bring toys to all the good boys and girls.

They have bills to pay, Shareholders to placate and accountants to make them do both.

Updating an army costs about the same, no matter which army. Some armies are guaranteed to sell well. Marines, WoC, High Elves. Some armies are slightly iffier. Brets, Dark Eldar, the poor, poor, sad-girls-crying-in-the-corner Sisters of Battle.

Since updating any army costs the same, but some armies will make far more money for that outlay, GW have to concentrate on them. Those armies subsidise the others. Daemons of Chaos got updated this year, but it's the High Elves, Dark Elves and Lizardmen still to come that will pay for that update.

Look for a pattern of about 2 or 2.5 popular armies for every niche one.


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## 12ebootX797 (Mar 18, 2013)

I understand GW has to make money.I just wish that they would update the Brets and send out these hopefully better selling products to reopen up the market for this army. 

I am grateful that this hobby exists and that i can play this game at all. I just wanted to voice my opinion on a specific topic that i am passionate about. Hopefully finding people who can help me cope with my want for new Bretonians.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

It comes down to the real situation, as you know the Bretonians are in some sense the French in Warhammer, well GW is British, put two and two together and you get Francophobia.:laugh:

Anyway, just bought the Bretonia army book, and i kinda like it, ok it is old but as a collector, it makes no diff to me, and i am formulating a Bretonian Army. Hopefully next year i will begin a small Bretonian Army, gotta luv the French.


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

12ebootX797 said:


> I just wanted to voice my opinion on a specific topic that i am passionate about. Hopefully finding people who can help me cope with my want for new Bretonians.


And we all understand that. We all also know it feels good to vent from time to time and that's half the reason fora like this exist.

For what it's worth, my way of coping is to see that, actually, the current Bret book isn't really that bad, and the models are actually pretty good.

Drop in by the Round Table of Bretonnia some time and meet a few people who agree.


Ps. Oh, and please, spell 'Bretonnia' with two 'n's... It really bugs me!


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

For people who are wondering exactly where Bretonnians come in strong;

The meta has evolved away from 3 large blocks of infantry in competitive gaming. While MSU is hardly back in style, units (with rare exceptions, notably Skaven, thanks to fucking retarded rules writing) are rarely larger than 30 models.

War Machines are too powerful, and other than for keeping Steadfast, there's very little more models actually does for a unit, and some units just get too expensive, too quickly for it.

Monstrous Infantry and Cavalry also have the potential to be game-breakers. Ogres with their Impact Hits even more so; their charges typically having 5 or more attacks attached to them per person. Alongside their super accurate cannon, it is why they are the strongest army out there.

Breton's counter that. Their War Machine is cheap as chips, and although it cannot insta-gib more than one, a pair of them can rack up kills fairly easily. The Ogre Cannon is neutralised by Pegasus knights/Lords with Sirienne's Locket. The access to HKB is fantastic, can easily take down a couple of Ogres in a unit. Combine with the Blessing, Vow and immunity to Ogre's Stomp and likely ability to out-range Ogre Charges meaning no Impact Hits, Ogres damage output is nearly halved. S4 Basic Troops against Ogres Low WS means that they're still hitting and wounding on a 4+. Archers are cheap as cheaps and can rapidly mount up kills in addition to focus fire from Trebuchet's.

A couple of sacrificial Mounted Yeomen can offset the Ogres 3 Sabretusks as well.


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

Most of your points are about Ogres.

Now, Ogres have a strong claim to being tip of the top right now, but 'good against Ogres' doesn't equal 'strong book'.

I'm also not sure where you're getting 'units are rarely larger than 30 models.' I read most army specific fora from time to time and watch battle reports on Youtube and as a rule, units are rarely _smaller_ than 30 models, with the exception of specific elites like Chaos Warriors or High Elf Swordmasters.

You'll rarely see - to pick a non-random example, an empire player put down less than 30 Greatswords or 50 State Troops in a block.

Monstrous Cavalry are the sovereign remedy to big blocks of 20mm bases, but so far, only three armies have them, and Brets aren't one.

Our ability to take down, for example, 50 State Troopers is either Dwellers Below or Treb Fire.

No question, Life magic and Trebuchets are good , but they alone cannot drag is up to the upper end of the spectrum. Nor, as awesome as he is, can the HKB lord.

Bretonnians have a book that works. I like it and I like using it and building lists with it. I don't think they're the weakest book around, but they are certainly in the lower half of the list.

Even if they are quite good against Ogres.


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## 12ebootX797 (Mar 18, 2013)

Apologies for the misspelling of Bretonnia.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

12ebootX797 said:


> Apologies for the misspelling of Bretonnia.


fixed

My friends ran a 2*1k twin bret army for a doubls tourny and made it pretty nasty. They had 2 lords with 1+ saves (one rerollable, the other with a ward), a lv4 life and lv1 beasts mage, 2 big knight trains and 1 smaller ethereal movement knight unit backed up by 3 trebs. They had included so many items and vows that each unit was incredibly complicated to remember what saves they had andwhat you needed to wound (no 2s to wound if your S5+, 4+ ward against non-magical etc etc). Considering they were both pretty much forced to take a lord, BSB and mage they managed to build some nice armies, only real problem they had was Watchtower where they hoped to march the ethereal move unit through the tower to block access then start killing the opponent in the open as fast as possible....


I don't think they're a bad army and they have some excellent units but its the random units that are either massively undercosted for the current rules (such as S5 trebs) or are all but useless... its the bane of the older books that you have lots of choice and most of its rubbish.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Ah, I remember hoping for an update even 5 years ago. It always seemed just...around...the....corner. No dice, but up until 8th, my Brets rocked out with the best of them (I was even quite evangelical about them on the forums here ). After 8th though, man, I really wish they'd redone the book, we needed it, if only to give us more viable options than treb/character spam. 

As it is, I'm now getting my knights in armor kicks from playing the Protectorate of Menoth in Warmachine - seems I'm a sucker for a Devotion based army:angel: Hope the Lady forgives me, if we get a new book and I decide to dust off my Brets some day:grin:


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