# Comparing DE and HE



## Duke Vorian (Jun 21, 2008)

I have been waiting to start fantasy until both the HE and DE lists came out. I was hoping that one of them would just automatically stand out from the other but that doesn't seem to really be the case. 

So my question is: How would you guys compare the new HE and DE for a noob at Warhammer Fantasy?


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Well for one DE aren't armoured little pansies.... They spiky sadist armoured pansy pirates!!!:biggrin:
The basics of each army so. Both have basicallly the same units. BLack guard and pheonix guard are both heavy armour halberd units, Swordmasters and executioners are both great wepon units etc. So they have similar enough styles
The major differences between them are:
High elves strike first. ALWAYS. even if charged (i think) 
Dark elves reroll all failed rols to hit against everything in the first round of combat.
Dark elves have corsairs, pirates who have good armour, good attacks, plus can overrun easier due to special rules.
HE have wolf guys(not sure of name) They have good attacks and armour infantry too.
DE have access to assassins for every block of men in the army, who are the best killers in the game.
HE have access to a lot of dragons, which means their lists will often revolve around one unit...
Both have good cavalry, one rides raptor like lizards, the other armoured horses... 

That's the main thing I have now but I hope it helps....


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Well yeah, since they're actually both very similar, it really comes down to what you want the feel of your army to be. Both are fairly tricky to use, due to the universal low toughness, but can be easily be devastating once you get the hang. 

So

Sadistic slave hunters with a grudge.... or the good ones?


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

In summary, High Elves are your elite fragile force and so very much "glass hammer". There are a lot of items and spells that focus on protecting your troops so that they can get into combat and mince your enemy. Very strong magic and very compact. There is also the bonus that they strike before anything else but this is reflected in their points cost.

The dark elves are similar but have the potential to be more offensive. Their lore is made up of good offensive spells and the magic item section is filled with combat boosting stuff. They share the same weakness of all elves having T3 but you can also field more bodies.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Dark elves reckless and power hungry, high elves cautious and rightous.


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

Dark elves a six pack of wup ass. High elves under par.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Thanks for the edit ancient


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## phatmatt1991 (Aug 11, 2008)

even when playing with similar armies of both HE and DE there is something about the DE that is just enchanting and if you like offence the combination of their army magic and creatures is brill!


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Battles between high elf and the dark elfs are very equal games, as they are so evenly mached, even as they are so different.


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

I beg to diffe, i am confindent i can win 7 or more games out of ten using dark elves against high and i dont think i can match that the other way round.


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## Beaky (Dec 15, 2006)

Take High Elves:
-their Swordmasters get 2 S5 always strike first ws6 attacks each. and only 15pts/model
-their Pheonix Guard get S4, always strike first, cause fear, are stubbon, and have a 4+ Ward sv. and again, only 15pts
-their White Lions have S6, always strike first, get +2 to thier armour sv vs. shooting, and can move through woods and forests without penalty. and again, only 15pts.

I once worked out a 2000pt High Elf Army, it had a Prince riding a Star Dragon (yay, most powerful dragon in the game), and a unit of 15 for each of the above.


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

Thats just it only 15pts per model is a hell of a lot. At battlefields i fought a white lion unit with a long beard unit and it was a stalemate. Thing is 15pts for a white lion 12pts for a longbeard.


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## Marine Errant (Aug 12, 2008)

Hi, just joined this forum 
I am new to this as I am a 40k player at heart......
I have however just moved to France where fantasy is the main game so decided I may as well have a go. I am, unfiortunately, an inveterate collecter and have, amongst other things, a large empire and orc and goobes force (about 5k points each) just waiting to be painted.
I was, as soon as I saw them, struck by the dark elves. hilst there are certain units that would make me look twice in the HE list, it was the background and artwork that sild me on DE's.
Like I said, I am new here so am not quite sure how the forums work but I would take DE's over HE's any day of the week.
Even though the HE's have some seriously kick ass choices I do not really see any of them evoking the same 'My God But That Is Cool' (MGBTIS......) feeling.....
The sense of an all-pervading evil, a complete lack of empathy with any other living creature (with the possible exception of any close cold ones....), and the overwhelming arrogance of the DE's just radiates an aura of 'This Is Sooooooo Cool' that I just cannot help myself and leave every other painting project on the shelves at home 
Anyway, in case I have been a little long-winded, I would just say that DE's win 'fluff-wise' every single time!!!!


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## Beaky (Dec 15, 2006)

15pts isn't that bad, after all, if you take 3 units of 15 models each, it only costs 675, so for barely a quarter of your points (if doing 2000), you already have 45 very good models on the table, and that's before you add the prince and his big draconic mount.


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

We are all entitled to our opinions of course but in my experience that is never enough. But if you like them then happy gaming.


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

15 pts isn't so bad when you field them in flanking units of 10 or 12. The real problem occurs when you start to stick them in units of 18 or 20. These big blocks can cost upwards of 300 pts with upgrades and remember that they are still only T3.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

so what things do you Think would allow you to do that ancient. 
Why do you feel the DE are so affective against HE?
I agree with you, as i think when they've designed the HE they've added in things specifically to combat some of the HE strengths, especially in the magic items. AND i feel DE are better at shooting, and shooting is a big weakness of both armies, giving the DE the edge. 

If your very very good you could use the hatred against the DE to make a difference with there overruns.


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

jigplums said:


> If your very very good you could use the hatred against the DE to make a difference with there overruns.


We're all thinking the same thing here but I though I'd say it anyway.

Eagles are perfect for this task as long as they don't get shot down.


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

I dont see eagles as a problem with the amount of missiles and magic missiles in the DE arsenal. I agree on using the hatred against them but i use a line of 10 warriors as a bullet shield, this allows me to walk up to the enemy in a tight formation thus removing concerns of my army running off in bad directions. This approach is coupled with ensuring plenty of ASF characters and the black gurad with the bo hag graef, thus eliminating the problem over enemies overunning through the bullet shield. I go for units with mass attacks which works well againsts low armoured high elves. 
Aside from the magic being comparable the high elves are simply left in the dust. For one example black guard are two points cheaper than their high elf equivilant yet with the banner of hag graef hstike before white lions and swordmasters, have more attacks than whitelions and pheonix guard, and with the warrior elite rule and immune to psychology they just pip the edge. But once again they are 2Pts cheaper!
That is just one point, assasins and death hags with rune of khaine are elf killers, dark riders are better than ellyrion reavers, dark elf spears when factoring in the points are for superior to their lighter kindred. Even looking at the special charaters, malekith is solid, shadow blade can kill almost anyone, hellebron is a S10 nutter. For high elves Teclis has to get close to be dangerous, a risky ploy and tyrion is nowhere near as hard as he once was.
It really does seem all a high elf army really has over the other races is better access to dragons.


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Ancient Tiel' a fier said:


> pheonix guard, and with the warrior elite rule and immune to psychology they just pip the edge. But once again they are 2Pts cheaper!


You're forgetting the 4+ ward.


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

The ward is not as good as the extra attack, in a black guard vs pheonix guard fight black guard should win by averages.


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Ancient Tiel' a fier said:


> The ward is not as good as the extra attack, in a black guard vs pheonix guard fight black guard should win by averages.


Another problem is that phoenix guard still panic. One failed test can ruin your day.

Remember that black guard are only T3 and 5+ armour on the way in. They die very easily to most forms of shooting.


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

They do yes but a cheap 60pt unit of warriors in formation elf shield can protect your black guard and another unit next to it very nicely, also a good way to provent your witch elves running off after flyers and fast cavalry.


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Ancient Tiel' a fier said:


> They do yes but a cheap 60pt unit of warriors in formation elf shield can protect your black guard and another unit next to it very nicely, also a good way to provent your witch elves running off after flyers and fast cavalry.


Hmm. This is true. High Elves lack that kind of cheap screening unit.

Shield of Saphery and howler wind seems to be the usual way to protect swordmasters but this requires quite a bit of investment in magic to work consistently.


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