# Warriors of Chaos 2,000 points - Little Help?



## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

Wasn't sure whether this should be posted in Tactics or Lists, but as I haven't actually got a list yet, this seemed the safer bet. As you may've already twigged from the title and the last sentence, what I'm trying to do here is work out a workable Warriors list. While that isn't too difficult in principle, I haven't played Fantasy in years, and furthermore I'm the sort of silly bastard that likes to shoot himself in the foot by choosing a list based more on aesthetic concerns than tactical ones. That said, losing every game isn't much fun either, so I thought I'd come here for some friendly advice.

What I'm attempting to do is create a list with no non-Khornate marks (though unmarked units are fine), led by a Lord or Hero on a Jugger, and (this is important) including no Ogres, Dragon Ogres or Marauders, as the models are all pig-ugly. Simple, n'est pas? But every time I try to work out something on paper, there's always a fatal flaw, be it a lack of mobility, armour, anti-magic or whatever. And of course, with no Marauders the model count's always going to be abysmal. So what's a poor frothing devotee of Khorne to do?

Apart from, y'know, sucking it up and taking gigantic units of Marauders with the MoS.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

IF YOU CAN'T BE ARSED READING ALL OF THIS SKIP TO THE BOTTOM

Do Shaggoths count? And how are you at converting. In a 2000pts list, I'd try and have 2 special units - the Knights and the Dragon Ogres are just too good to pass up.

It's a shame about the Marauders, though. They really, really are useful, to have a model that can outclass any other Line regiment - Night Goblins, Empire State Troops, Militia, Skinks... only Dwarves and Elves can say that they have a good chance of resisting a charge, or doing too much damage vs. Marauders, and you pay for it in points costs. I've heard people say that Marauders are broken - in a 2000pt list, I've played one person with 6 units of 30 Marauders, with Mark of Tzeentch. It came out with a draw - when I had the charge with my troops, I heavily outclassed him, but when it came to me to take a charge, I had to make a couple of break tests, which thanks to Will of the Gods let me re-roll any failed ones, and then I had a Banner on top of that.

I certainly hope that the Marauder Models will be updated by the second wave. Too long to wait, if you ask me for the Marauders, as while they're not as bad as people make out, are looking dated, next to the quality of models still being turned out. I still wonder whether the guys who made Archaon, the Knights (yes, the old ones. Other than the champion, and options, they were beautiful) and Galrauch were on the rest of the team of the Hordes Dev Team. Because they outclassed anything that Games Workshop had made to that date, although the Dragon Princes were close - I think they were made by the same person though.


Whoops, back to business.

Anyway, A Khorne LORD is Overkill in anything under 3000pts, due to his massive 6 attacks, and can get a possible 7 strength 6 attacks. Not bad at all, but as I said, OTT, but he's an expensive boy, and can't move fast enough. Funnily enough, while it's expensive, a Khorne Lord on Dragon has been running round the LGW, and I don't know how he's managed it, but at 2000pts, it's managed to make back all the points it's costed, but he did have a lot of Marauders, to soak the damage up, and still take/make the charge, which as I've said, elite/high cost infantry are only able to suitably outclass.

_There was a Lord bash tournament as well, and the only he had trouble against were Ogre Tyrants with Multiwound weapons, and Kholek - who is THE FINAL WORD in killing monsters._

For your army, you have a choice to make. Do you want lots of High Class Troops, and a few heroe's to keep it together? Or do you want a full set of characters, and some High Class troops, with some 'lesser support'?

For the former, an Exalted Champion or 2 will fit the bill - you can also have a General who is a BSB as well - if you're not taking Banner of the Gods, don't bother with a magic standard. Personally, unless I'm facing a lot of Charges, or a Gunline, a Magic BSB is not worth it. Give him Soporific Musk, Great Weapon, and a Helm of Many Eyes. ASF with a Str 7 instakill chariots =) Very nice, as Chariots are used to 'snipe' Heroes, by removing the front rank, and then targetting with the riders. So hows about a BSB, who suddenly turns into a killing machine.

*Exalted Champion, Battle Standard, Great Weapon x1, MoK, Soporific Musk, I've forgotten the name, but the power of Khorne, which stops the effects of Magic, but stops choice of magic items, not that you have any*
Maybe - _Exalted Champion, Great Weapon/Lance if Mounted, MoN (trust me), maybe mount on Chaos Steed, NOT DAEMONIC STEED_

Seeing as you're all Khorne, by your words, I'm not sure if this is appropriate, but hows about a Warrior Priest sort of character? I'm thinking Level 1 Scroll caddy, with Lore of Death?

Your troops should be as many heavy infantry as you can pick - if you've gone for the Mounted Hero, then ONE UNIT ONLY of Knights, and make them 5 strong. They're far too expensive, on top of the fact you've gone for an additional Hero, who isn't needed, although they are very nasty together in 2000pts, it's up to you. For your Knights, Take Mark of Tzeentch, and Banner of Rage. That way, you have a 6+ Ward save, -1 to WS and BS, cause Fear, and a unit that hit's like a freight train (does 5 WS7 Str 7 attacks sound good, along with 16 WS5 Str5 attacks. Then the horses attack - 12 (remember Frenzy carries onto the steed) WS3 Str4 attacks. So that's 5 models, killing a possible 23. Only thing in the Chaos Army which does similar damage is Forsaken, but they aren't as hardy, and have none of the other specialities which make the Knights so good.

It's a shame that that unit costs a bit over 500pts, (including the Exalted One), but are extremely worth it. An enemy could be so shit scared by it, that he'll empty his entire army into it, and it can survive, and as I've said, will rip apart anything short of a Brick Wall. (Or Stubborn Immune to Fear, Double Unit size Dwarven Hammerers). 

For your troops, you should have a little over 1100 points. With a couple of upgrades (usually a mix of halberds or great weapons, with shields.), you're looking at a fairly expensive unit. With the command, which really help increase the amount of damage that Chaos Warriors do, for a comparitively cheaper cost. However, if you need a few extra bodies to make a rank, Champions should be the first to go, as always.

If you've not gone for the Knights, you'll be able to make about 4 middling sized units (about 15 strong, Full Command, Mark of Khorne, and a mix of Magic Banners). If you've gone for Knights and exalted Champion, you'll have 2 middling units, and a support unit, probably 10-12 strong FC, but as they are a support unit, and want to aid a charge, I could actually recomment chosen, just this once, although I normally say against it.

A unit of 10-12 Chosen, with Mark of Nurgle, the Plague Banner (or whatever it's called), and the Champion with Necrotic Talisman - have the Champion seperated from the Banner by the Musician, and before you even start the combat, the enemy must take a full rank of toughness tests. I once did this against a unit of the aforemention Hammerers - the Khorne Warriors in the Front, and the Small unit of Chosen in the side - Great Weapons equipped. The Dwarf Lord dropped the Oathstone, and was in the corner of the unit, between the two units. I'd rearranged seeing his position, and used the Talisman and the Banner next to each other. In the magic phase, the Dwarf Lord needed to make 2 Toughness tests. He rolled a 5 and 6, which meant that he suffered two wounds, but another 2 Dwarven hammerers died from the Miasma of decay.

In combat, the Warriors struck out, and caused 2 unsaved wounds, saving the final wound with his ward save of 6 - boy was he happy, until I told him that he had already suffered a wound in the magic phase. So it's a very useful tool that, and small enough not to warrant overwhelming firepower on it, until opponents get used to the trick.

If you're going for full Khorne, a unit of Forsaken are very nice complement as well - as I've said, a unit of 5 can muster 20 attacks between them, and can easily rip through war machine crews, and have an above, _above_ average (not a mistake) movement - very disconcerting for all the two none High elf Elves, (blahblahblah ASF blahblah), that they can charge without charging. So they flee, but my point is, that they are cheap enough as a small unit to be both overlooked, but are fast, quite tough, quite strong, and can have a lot of attacks. So although they don't have quite the hitting power, and resistance of warriors, never ever really consider two hand weapon warriors with these beauties. 

In short - 

1 Hero, maybe have BSB, MoK, Great Weapon (General)
maybe take Mounted Exalted Champ, MoN, Lance, Shield, and/or Lvl1 Lore of death Scroll Caddy

Core - 2+ units of 15+ Chaos Warriors, with shields and either Great Weapons or halberds, Full Command, Mark of Khorne

0+ Chaos Warhounds (shield your knights)
Special - 0-1 (if taking mounted hero) Chaos Knights, Mark of Tzeentch, banner of rage.

0-1 Unit of chosen 10-12 strong, FC, Plague Banner, Necrotic Talisman

or 

0-2 Forsaken, minimum unit size.

For Rares, take a Spawn or 2, but only if you have points after taking as much Chaos Armour (but not if you take Knights, they don't complement well, and lack the reliability that Chosen or Forsaken do) as possible, and have a couple of screening units of Warhounds. I'm not keen on Warshrines, and aren't good enough to take on much, but has a fair bit of damage for such a small surface area - lacks movement and impact hits, otherwise it's good.

If you go for the monster route, and want to field a Lord, either go for the aforementioned Khorne Lord on Dragon, and 150+ Marauders (including the Riders). Alternatively, everyone knows I have a Mutated lizard fetish, and Kholek should be renamed Kho-sex IMO, and for a good reason.

As I said before, he is a monster killer. But his Strength 8 attacks. That means -5 to armour saves. That means you need to be 1+ save to have a chance of surviving. Not that hitting back will do you much good, due to his 2+ save.

While you're closing, you can also do some damage to nearby enemies by his Storm Calling. Or it backfires. And makes you Frenzied. What's better than a monster eating, plate armour killing, terror causing, immune to nearly all damage, lightning shooting, fast moving, small frontage, low initiative monster? A monster eating, plate armour killing, terror causing, immune to nearly all damage, lightning shooting, fast moving, small frontage, low initiative monster with an additional attack, and Immune to Psychology.

But yes, his one weakness is if he gets caught by a Strength 6 monster with a Great Weapon. And even then, they wound on 4's. And they get squished, thanks to his return attacks - D3 Wounds per wounding hit? Ogres are dead, Dragons are dead, Lords are dead... in fact, the only thing that's managed to do too much damage on Kholek yet, is a 4000pt Dwarven Gunline, when I charged Thorgrim, (I reduced him to 1 wound on the charge, in return, he did 2 wounding hits, on top of the 2 I'd already suffered from the Cannons (although to be fair, I did have 4 other identically painted Shaggoths, and Archaon on Steroids in an impossible to hit unit, and over 250 marauders as well), then in his turn he killed me. And that's the first, and last time, ever.

I know you hate Marauders, but when you can have Kholek, 2 other Shaggoths, a BSB Exalted Champion, and 150 more Marauders (naked of course, but that doesn't matter, who's going to target Marauders with 3 big buggers coming at them?).

Alternatively - do as I've shown in the army lists previously - marauder spam. A bastard to paint. But when you've completely filled your Deployment zone with 120 point units 20 strong, they will be shit scared.

THE END

There are 3 builds I've found to be highly successful with Chaos.
a) Probably the most successful - but then again, who liked painting 400 models of flesh and hair? Ask a Skaven player, and they might like this way, due to the practise, alternatively they'll run a mile - but it's expensive (20 boxes of Marauders is about £350). However, as you can outnumber even Skaven, weather the storm of Jezzails, ratling guns, Warpfire throwers, and Warp Lightning Cannons, and then beat all but that Rat Ogres, man for man.

b) Monster Mash. Kholek, 2 Shaggoths, BSB, 100 odd Marauders. 3 tough as nails beasties, that takes a Cannon to do any real damage to, a Cheap BSB sitting pretty in a unit in the middle so that you cover all your Warriors, Kholek and the Shaggoths tear down one flank, and rip stuff apart, moving as they go. For a model that has a base of 50x50, you have (with a bit of jiggling) a what could be for all intents and purposes, a 'unit' which contains of 15 odd wounds, T8, and 15 Str 8 attacks, of which 5 are like Instant Death to monsters. All that, squeezed into a 150x50 space? Spooky. Also, it's quite good at the defensive.

c) Combined Arms - Basic Set up - 1 Hero, 1 Sorceror, 1 Scroll Caddy, 1 Warrior unit, 4 Marauder units, Knights, Dragon Ogres (or if you take Throgg, Trolls), Shaggoth/Giant/Spawn and a second Warrior unit.

It's just a bit too bland, but has a bit of everything in, to cope with anything. The Shaggoth and Giant are the most popular, it's just that people tend to go with what is easy to carry. You can at least carry this is all one carry case, while the rest needs 2 or more.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Just thought I'd give you this link, I'm making a start on following it with a single Cold One as a test mini, and while my GS skills aren't as good as Kruzkal's, it's well worth the effort, by the looks of the end results, and is both unique. Also, I'm thinking Chaos=Spikes=Razors=Razodons as the base for the rest of the Dragon Ogres.

Anyway, here's the link.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

I think your mate should've won that game - Will of Chaos allows rerolls on panic tests, not break tests.

That said, cheers for the solid advice - even if most of it hinges on Marauders, (non-Khornate) Marks and Dragon Ogres . Rest assured, when the Marauders get redone I'll be picking up about CN$300 worth. Though that doesn't look to be anywhere in the near future, unfortunately. Heh. Maybe I should just pick up the latest army book and dig out my Druchii - glass cannons, I know how to operate. 60-wound armies with either no armour or no movement, not so much :laugh:.


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