# Talking About Tyranids



## The Great Auxellion (Jan 19, 2009)

I hope you all find this helpful,

I'm a major member of the Tyranid Hive, another forums for just tyranids. I have a youtube deticated to tactics and tyranid tutorial videos in general.

This is my Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/Auxelli0n

and this is the Talking About Tyranids Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0B4FB52D835D18CF

I put up a few videos a week, hope I can give a few tips!


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## Djokovic (Dec 22, 2008)

I watched some of those they are great.


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

Hey seen all your vid , based my tactica on most of your advice i also added the lists so that people could use them if that ok :biggrin:. Your like a tyranid messia :king:

Big fan (sounds wierd)


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## Anim (Aug 4, 2008)

I just noticed on your broodlord video (was curious on your thoughts) that the broodlord does indeed have fleet. Quite handy to know and as such makes him an awful lot better than initially thought.


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## The Great Auxellion (Jan 19, 2009)

The broodlord does not have fleet buddy...

And he takes it away from his stealer retinue


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## Djokovic (Dec 22, 2008)

I just watched all of your videos. I would like to see your GT list when you finish it.


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## Anim (Aug 4, 2008)

The Great Auxellion said:


> The broodlord does not have fleet buddy...
> 
> And he takes it away from his stealer retinue


Guess again, BRB (cant remember page but its in the independant char section) states that if the char has a retinue he counts as a sergeant of that unit type until all of the retinue are dead. So he'll gain fleet as they take on the attributes of the unit until all stealers are dead where he'll revert back to non-fleet.

As people have said, it has been done in tournaments before.


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## Greatdevourer (Dec 14, 2008)

Page 48 of the BRB, He counts as an upgrade character for that unit. Also note the page before that for upgraded characters. Holy Cow, this makes the Broodlord usable.


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## Anim (Aug 4, 2008)

and its gone unknown for such a long time since 5th came out. There may still be some reason he doesnt have it, but from what i can see theres no reason he shouldnt have fleet until all the stealers in his retinue are dead.


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## samas990 (Nov 12, 2008)

Hrmm, ya that's interesting. The rule you're talking about is at the bottom of page 48 in my BRB. 

I also see your point about differentiating "retinues" from "joined units". It does say that in Independent character takes away special rules from a joined unit if he doesn't share that rule. But the same section clearly makes a differentiation between "Independent Characters" and "Upgrade Characters" on page 47. 

I suppose my question is does the Broodlord's "Independent Character" status get overridden by his "Upgrade Character" status while in his retinue? 

I suppose that means when the Broodlord is added, he allows the retinue to infiltrate AND he benefits from the Stealers' fleet ability? Can anyone name another Upgrade Character that gains a unit's inherent abilities and grants abilities to that unit? I'm just trying to find another example in 40K where this type of awesome exchange of power occurs to use it as a counter-argument in my LGS.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Guys, take a look at page 74. "The special rules marked with an asterisk (*) _(Note fleet has an asterisk)_ are automaticlly lost by an independent character joining a unit that does not have the same rule. These rules are also lost by a unit that is joined by an idependent character that does not have the same special rules." 

Now, nowhere in the BRB does it state that an upgrade character automaticlly has the rules of his unit. Nor does it state that an idependent character gains the rules of his retinue. This means that as long as the broodlord is alive, the unit cannot fleet, as the genestealers lose it because of a characters who does not have the rules presence.


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## Greatdevourer (Dec 14, 2008)

The Key word in that statement is JOINED. The Broodlord is considered an upgraded Genestealer from his Retinue and he cannot leave that unit even if he wanted to unless they were all dead.

Independent characters and Retinues; The character counts as an upgrade character until all the other members of this unit are killed, at which point it starts counting as an independent character and it will do so for the rest of the game. Pg 48

Upgrade characters are fielded as part of units from the start of the game, representing a squad leader or unit champion...They are effectively just another trooper in their unit with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear. pg 47

Thus, the Broodlord is an enhanced Genestealer with his own entry; he doesn't count as an independent character until his retinue is dead and thus has fleet until he becomes an independent character.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

RAW GreatDevoure is correct because the character is not an IC until the retinue is all dead. It says that specifically, and since the rules in the rule book says specifically it only counts when an IC joins the unit that they loose the ability, they should be able to fleet.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

But there is no rule in the BRB stating that he would get the rule. Even if the genestealers don't lose fleet, the Broodlord doesn't have it. So the unit could run and then the genestealers could charge, but as the broodlord doesn't have fleet he cannot charge as he ran in that turn.


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## Anim (Aug 4, 2008)

brb said:


> They are effectively just another trooper in their unit with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear


He's a genestealer, genestealers have fleet.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

He isn't a "Genestealer" he is a Broodlord. He may be a type of genestealer in the fluff, but in game, he is not a genestealer. Broodlord's don't have Fleet.


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## Anim (Aug 4, 2008)

But whilst his retinue is alive, he doesnt count as an IC and remove fleet from a unit that he is part of. A unit will only lose its abilities when an IC joins them without that ability, he's not an IC till theyre dead.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

That doesn't change the fact that he himself doesn't have the USR. Just because he is an upgrade character doesn't mean he automaticlly gets the units rules, else Warlocks in Wraithguard units would suffer from Wraithsight.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

OK so the genestealer do not lose fleet, check, and the brood lord does not gain fleet, check.

New question and topic, can they still assault?


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

I would say no. They cannot assualt after running unless they have fleet. But genestealers do. This would imply that the genestealers could charge while the broodlord can't. But you aren't allowed to hold back while assualting.

Alternatively, it may be the case that the genestealers can charge but the broodlord can't, but the unit would have to maintain coherency, which would impact the effectiveness of the charge dramaticlly.

EDIT: I have just realised something. A unit assualting follows the rules for movement. Now the movement rules state that a unit can only move at the speed of the slowest member. If the Broodlord can't move (as he ran without fleet), then he is the slowest model, and the rest of the unit moves at his speed, which is not moving.


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## GH3_master (May 5, 2008)

Although I really wish Broodlords could gain fleet, I have to agree with Wolf Lord. It does say they are just another "trooper" in the squad with enhanced abilities, but there's no way the writers would use so loose a sentence to say "characters with a retinue gain all the USRs his retinue has."


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## Greatdevourer (Dec 14, 2008)

Seeing as how we have totally hijacked this thread and moved it from welcoming the guy that does those Videos on Youtube to argueing about rules on independent characters and their retinues. I propose that we move this discussion to the rules discussion section.


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## Djokovic (Dec 22, 2008)

The broodlord DOES gain fleet. 

I know this because, for imperial guard, advisors (such as sanctioned psykers, commisars, and priests) are also a type of upgrade character. And if you are playing with doctrines, such as carapace armor, for example, your commisar would gain a 4+ save.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?community=&catId=cat210004&categoryId=600005&aId=2900008


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Okay guys, I've moved this to the Tactics section so that more people will get a chance to benefit from the videos that the OP has been kind enough to share with us, but I'm going to have to ask that rules discussion and debate be done in the appropriate section. What that means is, if you guys want to continue the "Does a Broodlord get Fleet?" discussion, make a separate thread.

Thanks!

Katie D


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## Greatdevourer (Dec 14, 2008)

I was about to post that I have started a thread in the rules discussion area entitled 'Retinues and what not' dealing with this specific topic. As Per Katie's request please direct any additional arguments for or against in that section. And as always, keep it above the belt.


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