# Gift of Chaos Psychic Ability?



## Cards344 (Jun 16, 2008)

I have never seen someone use the Chaos psychic ability 'Gift of Chaos'. Has anyone seen it used, is it anygood?


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## Honking_Elephant (May 8, 2008)

i used it against necrons once, it was really handy, i just turned a 'cron into a spawn and it helped to tie the squad up in cc nicely. Its very handy for trying to take at HQ's especialy if you put it on a DP, give it wings and just fly straight at what you want dead.


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## cooldudeskillz (Jun 7, 2008)

its quite risky really, cus i might never work but it should work sometimes


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## Sieg (Dec 3, 2007)

It isnt worth its points. If it was say half the points that it is now it may be solid, but for the few chaos units that can take the power, it just isnt worth it. 

Side question though, does the spawn count as a victory point in the new rules? It used to give its points if you killed it but if 1 spawn is worth 1 VP now, it is def not worth it.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Sieg said:


> It isnt worth its points. If it was say half the points that it is now it may be solid, but for the few chaos units that can take the power, it just isnt worth it.
> 
> Side question though, does the spawn count as a victory point in the new rules? It used to give its points if you killed it but if 1 spawn is worth 1 VP now, it is def not worth it.


It's a seperate unit. So yes, it does.


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## snuggles (Apr 29, 2008)

yes but you dont have to make a spawn if you dont have the model, instead you just kill there model


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## Sieg (Dec 3, 2007)

well then it is even worse then i thought. 

I dub this power.... uber lame


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## HeraldofKhorne (Nov 18, 2008)

I just see it as a fun ability that happens to work particularly well against things like nids or orks...you know, things where tying them up in pointless melee is extremely useful...it can be useful, but yes it can also be risking a waste of 30pt.:good:


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

HeraldofKhorne said:


> I just see it as a fun ability that happens to work particularly well against things like nids or orks...you know, things where tying them up in pointless melee is extremely useful...it can be useful, but yes it can also be risking a waste of 30pt.:good:


Problem being you'd never tie them up. Spawn have no saves at all, and orks and nids usually have a high volume of attacks or ignore armor, sometimes both.

You spawn one of their squad members on your turn, than on your assault phase it gets ripped to peices. Chaos gods help you if you tried to be in that assault with anyone else.


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## KiwackaBear (Nov 13, 2008)

ok first the gifts of chaos is a well worthy 30pts spent cause you all havent read it closely you may use it as well as anything within either 6 inches or a d6 inches getes turned into spawn as well or instadeath it doesnt matter lol gosh learn to read...


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

KiwackaBear said:


> ok first the gifts of chaos is a well worthy 30pts spent cause you all havent read it closely you may use it as well as anything within either 6 inches or a d6 inches getes turned into spawn as well or instadeath it doesnt matter lol gosh learn to read...


I normally don't do this, but... *deep breath*

First off, it's within 6 inches, then a d6 of more than targets toughness or a 6 regardless of toughness. Not d6 inches. Secondly, it doesn't inflict, "Instant Death." The power does not inflict wounds, no saves of any sort apply (because no wounds are inflicted, as per the FAQ). 

"Learn to read," comments don't sit well with me when you obviously haven't taken the time to read it yourself, as well as not taking the time to at least apply some grammatical rules to make a post understandable. Just one of my pet peaves. :wink:

And yeah, it matters a *lot.* In an objective based mission, it matters positively. Extra units to feed into/tie up enemy units is not a bad thing (in most circumstances), though do keep in mind that it may affect the final tally of wounds for the worse (again, due to no save). Now, in a kill points scenario, it matters negatively. For every spawn you create, your opponent gets a KP for it (let's face it, even at T5, the thing is going down quickly due to no save). If you manage to get the power off three times in one game, it's near guaranteed that your opponent is going to get three kill points from them. 

Perhaps using it if your turn is the second half of the game turn (your opponent went first, you went second), using it on the last turn of the game to try to, "Spawnify," models that have no chance to be hit in CC or to be shot to death. Not sure. I have to give some more thought to the application of GoC in an Annihilation scenario.


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## cooldudeskillz (Jun 7, 2008)

remember guys, like someone said before you "DONT HAVE" to replace the model that you got rid of by gift of chaos with a spawn, you can just get rid of that annoying leader


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

The problem is, is it is rather, "unsportsman like," not to replace the model with a spawn if you have one available. If you know for a fact that you're going to do an annihilation mission, it might be best to, "forget," them at home. Not something I endorse, but something to consider. In other missions, the spawn might have a use, even if it is only fodder.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Let's keep it civil, guys.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

Wraithian said:


> The problem is, is it is rather, "unsportsman like," not to replace the model with a spawn if you have one available. If you know for a fact that you're going to do an annihilation mission, it might be best to, "forget," them at home. Not something I endorse, but something to consider. In other missions, the spawn might have a use, even if it is only fodder.


I agree with you, this cropped up elsewhere this week and taking the power and not using spawn sniffs of powergaming IMO.


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## SpaNNerZ (Jun 17, 2008)

It has its uses in my Opinion 
It's not always a bad choice, and I do beleive the points are justified, it's just that there are better choices for cheaper costs.
Something me and some friends have been planning on is having a "Lame Game" where we take really funny and stupid units in our given codexes.
I'm taking Chaos, with a whole lotta Noise Marines (IMO one of the least used troops, cause I have too have troops) Possessed, a dreadie or two and some sorcerers with Gift of Chaos. should be an interesting game.
But back to the topic, it does have its places and if your not depending on certain Physic powers having a major impact sometimes it can give that moment of hilarity that makes a match really great.

peace out:victory:


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## Mud213 (Nov 20, 2008)

In most situations (unless of course you are fighting Daemonhunters or another Chaos army etc) you will be outnumbered. As far as that goes, adding another (40 point) model onto the table isn't entirely terrible, especially since it was "free." If used appropriately on an opposing squad right after shooting at them with everything else and before charging them, then you do get another model in combat which (against weaker foes) will possibly contribute more wounds then it takes. 

Also if you were give it to say the Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcerer, then you would be getting another 3 wound, strength 5, toughness 5, multiattack unit if you knew you _had to_ go to assault since your troops all only get 1 attack each (or 2 in this situation since you are assisting your newly mutated ally). Sure this is a bad situation since it would probably would just be better to rapid-fire at them instead of putting the enemy in Assault and therefore making them not a valid firing target. This would have to be used sparingly and most likely not the best Psychic Power pick.


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## Dugong (Apr 13, 2008)

Gift of chaos has good potenial, but i think it's an all or nothing spell.

If you are going to use it then spam it, as in fielding several squads of tsons all with gift of chaos. Because if 3 spawn popped out in front of a squad, it would tie it up very nicely for the tsons to run away via rhino or use that time to waste another squad. Unless the scenario was KP based of course, in which case you're in trouble giving the opponent so many KP.


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## Dugong (Apr 13, 2008)

Gift of chaos has good potenial, but i think it's an all or nothing spell.

If you are going to use it then spam it, as in fielding several squads of tsons all with gift of chaos. Because if 3 spawn popped out in front of a squad, it would tie it up very nicely for the tsons to run away via rhino or use that time to waste another squad. Unless the scenario was KP based of course, in which case you're in trouble giving the opponent so many KP.


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## Dugong (Apr 13, 2008)

srry for the double post, darn you windows vista :headbutt:


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

I think turning/killing the army's big guns is definately a bonus, spawn or not.. either way it's gonna die soooo.. to have the model is a plus for you, hopefully you'll take more out with it.. if no model, still lose the character!!!


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## ArmoredGhost (Aug 18, 2008)

To me its just a fun power to take sometimes. BTW CSpawn are mindless and never count as scoring units so you don't have to worry about kill points.


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## newsun (Oct 6, 2008)

They are another unit and thus become a kill point, they don't score as in they cannot claim an objective is how I read it.


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## ArmoredGhost (Aug 18, 2008)

Well thats how our gaming club ruled it so to each his own then lol.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

"Scoring Units" and "Kill Points" have absolutely nothing to do with each other. By that logic, nothing but Troops (that aren't Swarms or Vehicles) would count for Kill Points either.


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## Hashulaman (Apr 9, 2008)

I'd use it against IG, Eldar, and especially Tau, Low toughness means a good chance of turning even a crisis suit commander into a mindless spawn. I havent tried it as i face marines as of late and their High toughness makes it impractical.


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## Atilak (Nov 28, 2008)

It seems to me that spawn is worth 40Victory points. No kill point. So it matters only for counting VP´s for morale victory or tournament rules..

Can be really fun spell. You essentialy can make spawn tide. Since asp sorc and tzenetch marked prince or sorc. Can use it twice a turn. So for example 2 units tsons asp sorc and sorc have both GoCH.. That two groups are capable to make 8 spawn a turn. That spell does not have power game or tournament potencial, but can be fun  Maybe if work my mentioned No kill point "rule".


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## necroman (Jun 13, 2008)

you can never use the same psychic power twice in one turn just fyi plus tzech doesnt mean they can use 2 psychic powers in same turn, it only grants a +1 to inv save or the 5+


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## snuggles (Apr 29, 2008)

i usually take 4 units of sons
DP and arhiman
I can potentially make 13 spawn a turn(although i never have and dont expect to)
This power acts as many things
If your enemy knows you have it he may be swayed to keep all his special characters away from you.
also the rules state that you MAY place a spawn (you never have to)
it may be a bit cheesey but i only drop them when i know they are either going to kick butt against units that have a low S and T

and lets not forget those pesky high toughness units Wraithlords Talos avatar DP these can all potentially be turned to spawn with just one lucky roll.
I add up the cost of all my GOT spells and not once have the points i killed with it been less that what i killed.


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## Atilak (Nov 28, 2008)

necroman said:


> you can never use the same psychic power twice in one turn just fyi plus tzech doesnt mean they can use 2 psychic powers in same turn, it only grants a +1 to inv save or the 5+


Wrong..

You can never use 2 same psychic shooting powers in one turn. This power is not stated as shooting. 

As far as I know. You CAN use this power twice in one turn.

And model Mark of Tzeenetch can atempt to use two psychic powers in one turn. pg 88 CSM codex.



snuggles said:


> i usually take 4 units of sons
> DP and arhiman
> I can potentially make 13 spawn a turn(although i never have and dont expect to)
> This power acts as many things
> ...


And how this list work? Isnt the ahriman too costy?


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

necroman said:


> you can never use the same psychic power twice in one turn just fyi plus tzech doesnt mean they can use 2 psychic powers in same turn, it only grants a +1 to inv save or the 5+


Any Caster / Sorc / Asp Sorc etc can only cast up to ONE psychic power a turn. However If the model is given the MoT then it can have up to two Psychic powers. The model can now use up to ONE additional psychic power a turn but can't use the same power twice. (ex. DP with WT and WoC)



snuggles said:


> i usually take 4 units of sons
> DP and arhiman
> I can potentially make 13 spawn a turn(although i never have and dont expect to)
> This power acts as many things
> ...


Please Explain how you can make up to 13 spawn a turn.... I am rather interested in hearing how. I have never heard such a thing.

Chaosftw


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## Atilak (Nov 28, 2008)

Chaosftw.. Im reading through rule book and codex. There is no such a thing that spell must be different. There is mention, that you cant use same spell which is counted as shooting! 

And for your peace.. Take a look at FAQ  There is exactly written that Gift of Chaos can be used multiple times.

So aspiring sorcerer with GoCH can cast that power twice in one turn or ones and use force weapon. Chaos sorcerrer can have two powers so there is more combinations, but if he want to he can use 2 GoCH.

You asked about 13 spawns? 8 from 4asp sorc, 2 from DP and 3 ahriman.



So yeah Gift of Chaos is kinda underestimated spell


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## snuggles (Apr 29, 2008)

The four units of sons have a scorcerer in each one who if an enemy is within 6" at the start of the turn get to cast GOC two times each =8
the DP has wings, mark of tzeentch, and GOC and can cast twice =2
Arhiman can cast three spells per turn =3
It would have to be a very stupid /desperate / or heavily assault based army to knowingly leave your army exposed to that many of my scorcerous models.
the sons all ride in rhinos and for heavies i take two vindicators and three obliterators
this is my tourney 2000 pt army. its done pretty well I may drop Arhiman for a slaneesh DP with Lash but i am trying to keep it fluffy. I figure if your going to go for somthing go balls deep.


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## Atilak (Nov 28, 2008)

snuggles said:


> The four units of sons have a scorcerer in each one who if an enemy is within 6" at the start of the turn get to cast GOC two times each =8
> the DP has wings, mark of tzeentch, and GOC and can cast twice =2
> Arhiman can cast three spells per turn =3
> It would have to be a very stupid /desperate / or heavily assault based army to knowingly leave your army exposed to that many of my scorcerous models.
> ...


Its nice to hear that it works  

Btw if you played non-anihilation game. Did you have some Spawn tide army?


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## CamTheApostle (Oct 31, 2008)

I am definetly going to have to start using this ability. Atilak & Snuggles, you have my deepest thanks. I knew this ability was evil for the ability to take out Eternal Warriors... but now I am really going to have to try it.


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## snuggles (Apr 29, 2008)

yeah in a non anihalation game by turn 6 my best was having 18 spawn on the board at once. I had 5 more but they were killed.
in fairness it was vs a heavily troop oriented IG army. and i was pretty luchy with my toughness rolls.
Commisar Yarrik was very very surprised when his shield did didley VS GOC


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## Atilak (Nov 28, 2008)

snuggles said:


> yeah in a non anihalation game by turn 6 my best was having 18 spawn on the board at once. I had 5 more but they were killed.
> in fairness it was vs a heavily troop oriented IG army. and i was pretty luchy with my toughness rolls.
> Commisar Yarrik was very very surprised when his shield did didley VS GOC


Awesome to make 920pts units even though 200pts was killed. Im definitely make this build. 

2 CamTheAppostole: Dont thank me. I just find that this spell could be usefull and found this topic and found that my thought were right


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