# Age and Skill?



## Putch. (Jul 13, 2010)

So I was involved in a game the other day, now, after having challenged him, he said "sure should be easy" I asked why do you think that? To which e replied, you cant be older than 18. So for a second I kinda wtf'd..though I did beat him. He then called me a cheater. Because of course nobody younger than his venerable thirty-five could best him at plastic soldiers.

So my question is, Do you equate skill with age? No obviously not 8 year old smurf huggers who cant remember their charge from an assault cannon!


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm old but never expect a walk over when playing some one young.
Yes if I was playing someone with a blue mess of plastic for an army I would probably take it easy for at least a few turns until the skill level of my opponent became apparent but I always expect a difficult game until prove otherwise.
Some of the better pick up games I've played have been against younger players (Who probably get a lot more time to game than me)


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

neilbatte said:


> Yes if I was playing someone with a blue mess of plastic for an army I would probably take it easy for at least a few turns until the skill level of my opponent became apparent


Agreed with the above, but I wouldn't "take it easy" (implying that I deliberately make mistakes, or avoid optimal play if that's what you meant) but I would probably play more conservatively, by which I mean testing the waters to see what his reaction to certain events is, and not committing myself to anything critical.


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## Gigantor (Jun 21, 2009)

I definitely don't equate age with skill. While I have played in tournaments against 13/14 year old kids who don't really know what's going on, 18 and up is fair game. I've played against a 45 year old who was honestly the worst player I've ever beaten so age has nothing to do with it.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

Age and skill are no more related than the reasons for me to shave my head but not my balls.

Anyone thinking that 12-year-old isn't better than them at something is an arrogant fool. Because he will be. And that thing he's better than you at is just as likely to be warhammer as it is to be hopscotch. 
Sometimes life surprises you. And when it does, if you're not the 12-year-old I suggest you stop acting like one.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

I'm a older player that only started playing due to a younger son playing and thought I'd play just so he could practice with me and then found, to my surprise, that there were players as old as me and my son was the only player under 18 at our first Indy GT. But my 15 year old son is quite good, especially given that he's only been playing WHFB for one year and LOTR/WOTR for two years. In our area, there is a group of older and very experienced players, but my son goes toe to toe with them (including beating a top ranked US players occassionally) and he almost won the recent local one-day tourney but for a whiff on a critical combat roll in the final round game costing him the win. So, I'd never take age as a basis for judging ability, nor do I care that much about that since everyone should be given respect (besides you never know how that person might develop if given a chance). 

What I ran into at a recent tourney of experienced/ranked player was a player in the last round (third of three rounds) thinking that he should beat me just because I've only been playing for less than a year and only been playing competitive for six months and he'd been playing for almost 20 years or something. He was insulting and bullying and stretching the rules throughout the match because I managed to tie him up and out-maneuver him (even though he had a maxed out Slann and two EOTGs) a few times. We drew on victory points but I won the objective by outplaying him in turns five and six for a 7 points to 3 points win (last round had 4 pts for objective, 3 for tie, 1 for loss and 5 for win). I wrote a letter to the tourney organizer describing what happened and left it at that and swore I'd just never play that person unless I had to. Even when I was much younger, I had no problem telling someone that they're being a jerk and a poor sport.


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## Skartooth (Jun 4, 2010)

I am 13 years old. I can make and paint the models to a decent standard. So why should my performance on the table be any different. I've played a few adults and manage to hold my own against them pretty well. As long as the the young gamer is mature they should not be underestimated solely because of their age 

Skar


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

putch 1. reply or empty out your inbox / outbox.

and back on topic. Age means little, at Lawrence and Young, there are 8 and 10 year olds who play better then some of the new 20-30 year olds ive played in these games.

to the truth: kids learn alot better then older people do. IE: they might start off horrable players but if you teach them how to play, they can, have, and probably will be better players then some of the older people just getting into the game.

now: if they are young, I always give pointers / Let them have do overs if I see them make a horrid move. but I will NEVER go easy on my opponents. you will learn that soon enough. Mistakes I make are genuine mistakes from me and my essentric ways, not because im going easy on someone.


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## NoHeresyOnlyTruth (Apr 20, 2010)

I personally only play with people who look 18 and older or atleast mature. Younger people usually are more emotional and cheat or something else altho not all.


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## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

Lets face it your young whipper-snappers just want to step on my grass and have no respect...um ok that was sarcasm... I think the guy your were playing was being, what my LGS would call a Douche-Bag. It surprises me to no end when people just assume age means anything when it comes to skills. There are some people that just can grasp tactics and rules and are awesome from day one... So just don't play that guy again and put his name at the first notch in your WHFB belt....


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Age doesnt relate to skill... but I find that you get brackets of age/skill. Under 15-16 you get a lot of players I would describe as 'kids' and some who are decent gamers, but its sorting the childish/poor gamers from the good ones that can get annoying: Ive had some great games with some younger players but Ive also had some horrible experiences (mostly while working for GW so you cant escape).
At about 16-18 Ive found a lot more people who are more mature and give you better games, I think mostly its because of those 'kids' you want to avoid dont stick with the hobby although Im sure a few of them outgrow it. The adult almost all seem to be alright people, but again I don tthink that has much to do with growing up as such, its just a lot of them have stuck at the hobby a long time so tend to be best of the younger gamers anyway... although you get a few of those "my uber unit can beat you" guys who I hate... especially the few who keep seeming to talk to me (they see you win/winning in a GW and come over and explain how they are better then you are) and yet never seem to play the game.


I would put it simply, and to use Iowan's wording: you get douche-bags at any age, but the type changes... but amoungst adults you get less of those that throw random models ontot he table, call it an army and then have no tactics of any sort other then "fire, fire, fire" at the closest enemies.


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## the-graven (Apr 26, 2010)

Age has barely anything to do with it, it's the the size of your brains, the amount of experience(wich áctually isn't related to age, since a 15 year old player could have played tourneys and stuff for 5 years while someone of 45 year could have only played for a few months), how good you can think up and use tactics and mostly the dice that decide.


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## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

... I would like to clarify a little... at our LGS the Douche-Bag title is reserved for those that are 18+ that "should" have the maturity level not to act like ...well you get the idea, most of the younger kids (below 18) we give a little leeway if they get upset when they lose or talk way too much smack, it takes a tremdous tantrum or act of poor sportsmanship for those under 18 to get a douche-bag title... One of the biggest examples is a player that is known in all the game stores in iowa as a cheater and one to watch, he has "accidentally" added a whole unit,vehicle, extra spells, altered a PDF document upping stats during the Hordes field testing, etc and has been banned and shows that just because someone is older does not mean they are a better player... (or smart for that matter) And I charge you.. Gamers everywhere if a player is acting like a Douche-Bag and truly deserves it boldly point a finger and say " Your a recycled Douche-Bag"... Dice will stop rolling and heads will turn...(and if someone was drinking a beverage it now maybe getting spit out onto some poor unsuspecting person due to the drinker laughing so hard)


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## Muffinman (Aug 31, 2009)

I think it has to do with maturity rather than age. When I started I was 11 I think and people didn't mind playing me because I didnt complain when I lost, instead I'd ask how I could improve. Now when you get the 12 year olds who come in saying they are god almighty in the hobby after only a month it really kind of bugs me, especially when they try and win an argument with me about him thinking that a Blood Fist is 10x better than a normal DCW because it has Blood in its name. 

There are also the older guys who think they are great but when they start losing to a 15 year old they start to call me a cheater, they try streching/BREAKING the rules just so that they win, then afterwards they say the only reason you won is because of xxx and yyy and in theory he should have won but because Im a cheater he lost.

So basically I dont think your age has anything to do with your skill, its more your maturity and your ability to admit you lost and to ask how you can do better.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Ok i know i shouldnt let the cat out of the bag but i think the heresy youngsters should know the truth, there is an un written whispered rule that you only find out on your 25th birthday, The older guys are told to let you win so that you feel good and stick with the hobby. Sorry to shatter your dreams younger guys,but once your considered a Veteran you have to let the kids win, hell the 25 and over crew even have a more complicated rule set that we cant tell you about....shit i have said too much....:angel:


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

in all the years I've played I've enjoyed games against younger players than older players, because they cheat less and generally are not complete stuck up self centered assholes who believe themselves gods gift to mankind like the majority of older gamers do.

sure some of them are turbo revving young punks who have not yet been straightened out by Kup, but gimme a turbo revving young punk over a kid bullying asshole any day.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Yeah, have to agree with Stella on that one- if you have a problem with an adult its normally much more annoying then if you have a problem with a kid.
My only real wish is that Im playing a friendly game (it goes both ways- Ill let people off mistakes, but not if they have denied me one of mine) with a player that is not a nob (nice guy/girl would be nice, but not necessary) and who has some grasp of tactics (so that the game isnt a total walkover)... so long as thats managed who cares about the other player's age.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

i don't think im particularly much better now then i was when i was 13.


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## CursedUNTILLDEATH (Apr 25, 2010)

Age has nothing to do with mautartiy, skill comes with age but not always. Just depepends on the person and thier love for the game. When i played my first game when i was 13 i read my oppenants codex(40k) and my own serveal times before the game. I still lost but the guy i played with made sure to tell me i ws better then many other guys in the club and he wasnt just trying to make me feel good. He then went on to tell me what i had done wrong and how to imporve. Some people are just born D-bags, age can make them more or less of one. As for skill and age, once again just depends on the person. I think that older people have a nartarul insite on the game, but often dont seek to be better. Younger players tend to WANT to get better so they can come back and win, but often at the expensice of having fun with it. I for one take the game more seriuosly then some older guys, and i know when my oppenants trying to take advantge of my age. Just dont talk to them and adjust your list, and call over a freind to watch in case he tries to pull something.

Forgive spelling


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## Durzod (Nov 24, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> in all the years I've played I've enjoyed games against younger players than older players, because they cheat less and generally are not complete stuck up self centered assholes who believe themselves gods gift to mankind like the majority of older gamers do.
> 
> sure some of them are turbo revving young punks who have not yet been straightened out by Kup, but gimme a turbo revving young punk over a kid bullying asshole any day.


Ouch! Thanks a lot, Gilligan! 

In defense of us old farts, I have to say that you seem to have met a rather unsavory bunch. I've met very few gamers who bully younger players, unless they're related. (Hell, at my age your ALL younger players!) Most of us try to help those less experienced. It makes for a better gaming environment. At the rate game systems come and go, we're all noobs at some time or another. So it makes sense to be nice, cause sooner or later the shoe's gonna be on the other foot. Unless you plan on playing Rogue Trader forever!
If the older crowd at your LGS are such jerks, please don't paint the rest of us with the same brush. It's hard enough for me to fit in games with my work schedule without some potential opponent declining to play "Cause Stella says old guys are jerks".
(End of senile rant. Geritol time!)


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## rodmillard (Mar 23, 2010)

While not being quite as old or fartlike as Durzod, I have to agree. There seems to be a youngster/old fart divide in the hobby with both sides looking down on the other (not helped by the fact that many UK clubs meet in venues with a strict over 18 policy).

Personally, I try to help newbies (of whatever age) as much as I can, although in my case it tends to be painting/hobby tips rather than tactics or rules. In general, I find youngsters to be more sportsmanlike than many of the older players - it probably has something to do with being forced to do competetive sports at school (and lets face it, 9/10 warhammer geeks suck at anything involving a ball).

To get back to the original point, no I don't make assumptions about peoples skill level based on their age, although I tend to be more gushing with praise if I'm beaten by a 15 year old than if I lose to someone my own age. Just encourages them to stay in the hobby - after all, the next generation of old farts has to come from somewhere...


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## unixknight (Jul 26, 2010)

In terms of gaming skill, age can be both an advantage and a handicap. The advantage is experience, even if not in this particular game per se, there are certain concepts in any simulated wargame that are universal and do apply in WH as well as anywhere else.

At the same time, that can also lead to inflexibility and habits that may be difficult to break even if they're costing us games. 

In terms of sportsmanship, I think age can be a factor but a minor one. Is a young kid more likely to react emotionally if he loses? Probably... but does that also mean he's more likely to be a jerk? No. Sometimes with age comes a certain arrogance, which is why older guys may have trouble losing to the younger guys. It's an ego thing.

I'm 36 and have been playing 40K off and on since I was 15. One of my sons (17) also plays. I like to think I'm a better player now than I was, but more importantly, I try to have more FUN than ever before. That's better for everyone.


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## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

I agree, if they understand the rules comprehensively, chances are they're smart enough to give you a run for your money. Sometimes.


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## Alexious (Apr 13, 2009)

I have a few general rules when I do decide to play against an unknown opponent.

1). I don't play against anyone who I require fresh oxygen every 10 seconds. I have found thats the worst thing in the world. Gamers with poor washing skills drive me nuts and I find it loathsome to be with them for 2 or 3 hours in a closed room or fairly closed environment.

2). Anyone who brings annoying people over who have to pick up EVERY figure even in the middle of a game who are not playing at all. I find it distracting and a pain. Same goes for the hanger on friend who has to give his expert advice to anyone watching the game.

3). Anyone who speaks in their character voices for the entire game and then strokes the said minature as it dies or puts it back in their case. (especially if said mini is only undercoated or not painted, thats even more crazy for some reason)

Age has no bearing on if I will play a game or not..... but as an older male player I do tend to be more careful around young guys. I ask to play at a game store or public place etc, as I would think twice taking a teenage girl anywhere in my car or something. I prefer to err on the side of caution.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

In my experience, age does equal skill in some cases. Generally this of course anyone in the 15 or under group I've come accross tends to just charge in with no method of tactics. 

Generally though, its the maturity of a player that equates to more skill. I've seen 16 year olds stomp older players lots of times, but the older players have been the typical nerdy unwashed that no-one really likes. 

Skill usually comes from practice, so typically someone who'se been playing longer and more often WILL be better then a new player of any age.

As said though, Age can equal skill. Its the teens at my local store that tend to try and cheat, or rush in, or have the beard lists they think are unbeatable.


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## ibram gaunt (May 7, 2010)

yea I have to agree that age dose not matter when it comes to the game, I think it comes down to how you play the game, I have been playing the game since I was 13 and I have had my fair share of victoryes and draws and defeats against a number of opponents. 
How I see it there is a army for everyone, I have gone thought 3 40k armys before I found the right one.
My first ever army was space wolfs in 2nd Ed, then Chaos still in 2nd Ed, but now playing the Imperal Guard in 4th and now in 5th ed.
There is some skill to the game but also quite a bit of luck as well I have seen games where I it came down to the dice every time, where there tatics have been sound but the dice has not been good enuth. I have rolled my fair share of 1s when I needed 2+ on the dice, and also its what you pick for your army as well.
my last game there at my club I Alpha striked my opponents eldar I got first turn I wiped out 2/3 of his forse on the first turn and at the end of the game all I lost was a Sentanal compaird to wipeing out his forse compleatly.(1500 game) but the dice rolls played a part of it, having rolled hits on the artilary dice on avrage 9 out of 10 times and even if it scatterd.
the point I am getting at is "Luck!" is a big part as well.
so age has nothing really to do with it.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

When it come to kids I find that there are two groups: the "please teach me so I can be better" and the "I get satisfaction out of being the self-appointed alpha male of my carefully picked pack of beginners I can bully into submission" types. The former might have problems with common sense and tactics but both are something that you can teach them because they want to learn. The other group... never played with those fucks. They never ask me for a game (I wonder why? :laugh and you can bet I won't waste my time on dicks with an inferiority complex.

Interestingly enough, even though I look 12 (which sucks when you're 21 ) I've yet to come across someone who openly questions my skills because of my apparent age. Maybe its because the guys at my LGS are a great bunch, maybe its because the hand of fate keeps douchebags away from me. Either way I'm a lucky bastard who can't really share tales of great justice being delivered to retards.


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## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

Alexious said:


> I have a few general rules when I do decide to play against an unknown opponent.
> 
> 1). I don't play against anyone who I require fresh oxygen every 10 seconds. I have found thats the worst thing in the world. Gamers with poor washing skills drive me nuts and I find it loathsome to be with them for 2 or 3 hours in a closed room or fairly closed environment.
> 
> ...


I would like to make an amendment to your rules. 

1.) No disagreement here the only addition I would be is the smokers that want to step out for a smoke during crucial roles or ever 10 minutes, I mean good god get a patch...

2) Due to this issue we have a standing house rule - If your not playing you can come watch but keep your mouth shut and your hands to yourself -what happens in the parking lot stays in the parking lot...

3) Personally I find this funnier then shit and its a good tactic on there part if it annoys a person to throw them off there game...

I also agree its best to go by the golden rule treat those as you would expect to be treated, if you do this it sets an example and shows that maturity that everyone speaks about.


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