# The Blood Ravens



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Many different theories float around about the origin of the Blood Ravens Chapter. However _A Thousand Sons_ by Graham McNeill has given us new evidence to support the theory that they are formerly of a Traitor Legion.

This is an exert from the novel, a prophecy by Kallista Eris.



'It's too late... the Wolf is at the door and it hungers for blood. Oh, Throne... no, the blood!. The Ravens, I see them too. The lost sons and a Raven of blood. They cry out for salvation and knowledge, but it is denied!. A brother betrayed, a brother murdered. The worst mistake for the noblest reason!. It cannot happen, but it must!'

An ominous prophecy, this lends credit to the Blood Raven's origin as a loyalist splinter of the Thousand Sons, or the Word Bearers. As for the brother betrayed, a brother murdered part I think she is talking about Gabriel Angelos and Isador Akios, it fits perfectly.



What do you all think?, truth or falsehood?.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Could be a potential truth. When playing Dawn of War 2, one finds out that theres so much about themselves they don't know, like their original legion and their primarch.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

To be honest I've always wondered if the Blood Ravens were from just one legion. 
Couldn't they be a blending of the gene seeds of two or more legions? Say the Word Bearers and the Thousand Sons?

It could have been an attempt by persons unknown to harness the psychic might of the Thousand Sons Gene Seed by blending it with the relativly stable Word Bearers seed.


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## Jeanms_247 (Mar 3, 2010)

And now that we realized that the Blood ravens are led by a traitor. Fits the origin I think


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Hmm.. towards the blending, I guess that could be a possibility, however, you would have to come over evidence over that. Thats kinda overstated unless you could provide some evidence maybe? Maybe familiar quotes?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Hmm thats a possibility. Eliphas the Inheritor referred the Blood Ravens as brothers, in a genuine sense. I thought they were Word Bearers after that but now evidence points to the Thousand Sons. But none of the Thousand Sons turned against Magnus, but the Word Bearers did purge their Terran astartes. Maybe the Blood Ravens are descended from the survivors of that purge.

But then why didn't they warn the Emperor. Its quite the mystery.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> Eliphas the Inheritor referred the Blood Ravens as brothers, in a genuine sense.


That was more of a mockery I thought. Astartes from different Legions used to refer to each other as 'brothers', as different chapters do now. That is no basis to support the Blood Ravens descending from the Word Bearers.



Lord of the Night said:


> But none of the Thousand Sons turned against Magnus


How do you know?  

We know that Magnus dispersed the Fleet from around Prospero prior to the Burning, thats quite a lot of Astartes that weren't involved in the direct fighting.

We also know that several Thousand Sons would have been posted around the galaxy as attachments to other Legions.



Lord of the Night said:


> but the Word Bearers did purge their Terran astartes. Maybe the Blood Ravens are descended from the survivors of that purge.
> 
> But then why didn't they warn the Emperor. Its quite the mystery.


Well its a fairly large assumption that not all the Terran Astartes were killed in the Second Purge of the Brotherhood.

Personally I think that there is more evidence to suggest that they are descended from the Thousand Sons rather than any other Legion. But GW wants us to keep up the speculation.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Either way nice find.


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## baroniveagh (Mar 20, 2010)

Well, look at the evidence: a large proportion of psykers and it seems like there's wandering Thousand Sons' ships all over the HH novels, so the fleet would already have been significantly dispersed.

My question is: What's Abaddon's beef with them?


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

I believe they are made from the scattered fleets of the thousand sons.

However when i deconstruct the prophecy, for some reason I see the missing primarchs

The lost sons and a Raven of blood (lost sons of the emperor turned to chaos?Raven of blood is obvious)
A brother betrayed a brother murdered (two brothers two primarchs ?)
The worst mistake for the noblest reason! (emperor destroying them)

Thats just me pontificating and i dont personally believe it


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Anyone who has read dawn of war tempest will remember the clues given by Ahriman. Speaking of the red armour, the pursuit of knowledge. It all makes sense.Even the lingering hint of mutation. Remember Ckrius` hands after the implantation?


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## Tbirch (Mar 13, 2010)

Are those Dawn of War books worth reading? Might put on my list next.. after Thousand Sons and Soul Drinkers.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> That was more of a mockery I thought. Astartes from different Legions used to refer to each other as 'brothers', as different chapters do now. That is no basis to support the Blood Ravens descending from the Word Bearers.


I think it was a bit more then mockery. He kept referring to them as brothers all the time, "Come brothers, let us welcome you home", I think that he means Chaos is their true home. Ill believe they are Thousand Sons before Word Bearers but its still a possibility.




Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> How do you know?
> 
> We know that Magnus dispersed the Fleet from around Prospero prior to the Burning, thats quite a lot of Astartes that weren't involved in the direct fighting.
> 
> We also know that several Thousand Sons would have been posted around the galaxy as attachments to other Legions.


According to _A Thousand Sons_ the entire Legion had been recalled to Prospero for a while. No other Thousand Sons were out there. The fleets is a possibility but I would have thought Russ and the Wolves scuttled them.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Well its a fairly large assumption that not all the Terran Astartes were killed in the Second Purge of the Brotherhood.
> 
> Personally I think that there is more evidence to suggest that they are descended from the Thousand Sons rather than any other Legion. But GW wants us to keep up the speculation.


Maybe but if any did survive and escape then they would have to been put out of the way, otherwise why did they not warn the Emperor?, or try to re-contact the Imperium.



deathbringer said:


> I believe they are made from the scattered fleets of the thousand sons.
> 
> However when i deconstruct the prophecy, for some reason I see the missing primarchs
> 
> ...


Maybe, thats a definite possibility but I think she is talking about Gabriel and Isador. It makes sense since Isador fell because he wanted to save the Imperium, the worse mistake for the noblest reason. And Gabriel, a brother betrayed, kills Isador, a brother murdered.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> I think it was a bit more then mockery. He kept referring to them as brothers all the time, "Come brothers, let us welcome you home", I think that he means Chaos is their true home. Ill believe they are Thousand Sons before Word Bearers but its still a possibility.


We'll have to agree to disagree on that one then mate 



Lord of the Night said:


> According to _A Thousand Sons_ the entire Legion had been recalled to Prospero for a while. No other Thousand Sons were out there. The fleets is a possibility but I would have thought Russ and the Wolves scuttled them.


Well a strong example of the _entire_ legion not being on Prospero, is Mhotep. There was no doubt other small detachments throughout the galaxy.

And I guess we'll have to wait for _Prospero Burns_ to find out what happens to the fleet of the Thousand Sons.



Lord of the Night said:


> Maybe but if any did survive and escape then they would have to been put out of the way, otherwise why did they not warn the Emperor?, or try to re-contact the Imperium.


What reason would they have to warn the Emperor? They were the ones who percieved themselves to have been betrayed, the Wolves attacked them - why would they then go back to the Emperor?


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I am inclined to agree with deathbringer. That quote would seem to refer to the missing primarchs and of course the blood ravens and their connection to the Thousand sons. What form that connection tales is another matter entirely. I think the concept of the referance to the two brothers being the two blood ravens is a bit tenuous though. They are really only minor players after all, at least when compared to the primarchs.

CotE, good point amout Mhotep. How many more like him are there? Magnus did disperse the fleet and there was no fleet action that we are aware of(as yet)so there may be plenty of survivors. Or alternatively magnus spell relocated the entire legion including the stragglers.


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## Garven Dreis (Oct 26, 2009)

Well, assuming that the Blood Ravens are, for the most part, a loyal Chapter, then they'd be required to send a portion of their gene-seed to Terra for storage. You'd think that they would've cross-examined their gene-seed with the genetic material of the Traitor Legions to see any similarities...


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Garven Dreis said:


> Well, assuming that the Blood Ravens are, for the most part, a loyal Chapter, then they'd be required to send a portion of their gene-seed to Terra for storage. You'd think that they would've cross-examined their gene-seed with the genetic material of the Traitor Legions to see any similarities...


i believe the gene-seed storage is on Mars, is it not?

CP


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## Garven Dreis (Oct 26, 2009)

Commissar Ploss said:


> i believe the gene-seed storage is on Mars, is it not?
> 
> CP


If it is, I then I'm corrected. But still the rest of my point stands.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Well what would Mars have to compare it to? The Traitor Geneseed they do have is under Time-Lock Stasis so any geneseed submitted by the Blood Ravens would simply seem to be a mutated version of another geneseed type.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I believe they only look for mutations in the gene-seed; I don't believe they cross-examine the gene-seed with known traitor legion samples.


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## Garven Dreis (Oct 26, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> I believe they only look for mutations in the gene-seed; I don't believe they cross-examine the gene-seed with known traitor legion samples.


They wouldn't normally, and I suppose 'in universe' there really isn't a need to actually compare the Blood Ravens gene-seed to any of the Traitor Legions even if they could access it (which, lets face it, they could. It's been stolen before).


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Garven Dreis said:


> They wouldn't normally, and I suppose 'in universe' there really isn't a need to actually compare the Blood Ravens gene-seed to any of the Traitor Legions even if they could access it (which, lets face it, they could. It's been stolen before).


Has it? When?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

I don't see how one's potential to turning to Chaos, switching to a different belief system, can be linked to a flaw in DNA.

Unless of course the emperor programmed each Space Marine to dutifully follow him?


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> How do you know?
> 
> We know that Magnus dispersed the Fleet from around Prospero prior to the Burning, thats quite a lot of Astartes that weren't involved in the direct fighting.
> 
> We also know that several Thousand Sons would have been posted around the galaxy as attachments to other Legions.


To bring in Battle for the Abyss once more, there you can find one Thousand Son who is away from his Legion and still fighting on the loyalist side even after the Issvaan III/V massacres.



Serpion5 said:


> Anyone who has read dawn of war tempest will remember the clues given by Ahriman. Speaking of the red armour, the pursuit of knowledge. It all makes sense.Even the lingering hint of mutation. Remember Ckrius` hands after the implantation?


Is Ahriman a part in the DOW-novels (I havent read them and didnt bother to do either) or are you refering to something he said in A Thousand Sons that is mentioned or could be refered to in the DOW-novels?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

forkmaster said:


> To bring in Battle for the Abyss once more, there you can find one Thousand Son who is away from his Legion and still fighting on the loyalist side even after the Issvaan III/V massacres.


Exactly. Although him fighting on the loyalist side isn't an issue really, considering the Thousand Sons as a Legion were by some definitions loyal anyway. 



forkmaster said:


> Is Ahriman a part in the DOW-novels (I havent read them and didnt bother to do either) or are you refering to something he said in A Thousand Sons that is mentioned or could be refered to in the DOW-novels?


I havn't read them myself, but I believe Ahriman features in one of them yes.


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## GWLlosa (Sep 27, 2009)

Ahriman features prominently in the 3rd book, I think its called Dawn Of War: Tempest. In it he as much as tells an amnsesiatic Blood Raven Librarian that they are related, pointing out similarities in armor, outlook, and origins. 

So it depends on whether or not you think Ahriman's a lying liar telling lies.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

It happens in Dawn of War: Tempest. Ahriman asks an amnesiac Space Marine whether he thinks its a coincidence that the Thousand Sons original colour was red, and their Librarians wore blue, which is now standard for Librarians.

Personally I think he is being truthful, it makes sense when stacked up with everything else that points to the Blood Ravens being descended from a Traitor Legion.


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## vortex_13 (Apr 17, 2010)

Possible that the thousand sons geneseed was used to create the Blood Ravens. All the traitor legions geneseed is still sitting on Mars.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

vortex_13 said:


> Possible that the thousand sons geneseed was used to create the Blood Ravens. All the traitor legions geneseed is still sitting on Mars.


I think its more likely that the Blood Ravens are a faction or splinter group of the Thousand Sons Legion that either simply remained loyal or exiled themselves at some point following the Burning of Prospero.

Why would the Imperium sanction the use of Traitor geneseed to create an Astartes Chapter? Its seen as highly corrupt.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

the blood ravens were acually a creation done by THQ the company that puts out dawn of war and gw decided to take it from there.

Its possable for them to be from thousand son gene seed. hell there is the chapter brothers of a thousand.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Maybe the emporer realised during the heresy that the thousand sons were right and commisioned some of their gene seed on Mars to create a new force of marines but kept it secret from the existing legions for obvious reasons.


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## Azhek Ahriman (Apr 27, 2010)

That is highly believable. He wanted Magnus and his Legion brought before him, not destroyed. I'm sure the Emperor found out about it and was devestated at what Horus had done. It would only make sense for the Emperor to try and rebuild a loyal Legion, even if he changed the name. Hence he could easily have commissioned the geneseed of the Thousand Sons to be used to make a new Legion, later the Blood Ravens chapter. The name Blood Ravens was probably chosen to throw off any ideas that they came from the Thousand Sons, and instead make them think they came from the Blood Angels. Granted this is just my 2 cents


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Stephen_Newman said:


> Maybe the emporer realised during the heresy that the thousand sons were right and commisioned some of their gene seed on Mars to create a new force of marines but kept it secret from the existing legions for obvious reasons.


So the Emperor's big plan was to create an Astartes Chapter, one among a thousand. Thats really gonna tip the balance in his favour. 



Azhek Ahriman said:


> He wanted Magnus and his Legion brought before him, not destroyed.


Actually most sources claim he wanted Magnus and the Thousand Sons destroyed and Prospero burnt to the ground.


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## waltzmelancholy_07 (Sep 30, 2008)

Pardon me for asking but... Why the hell are the Tech Priests storing the geneseeds of the Traitor Legions?.. 

And what's a time-loc stasis?...


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

It's part of the fluff lore from the end of the Heresy, the Mechanicum placed all traitor geneseed stored on Mars in time-lock stasis (which means that a certain amount of time must pass before the stasis ends, stasis in this reagrd meaning that no time passes within the stasis bubble so the geneseed will still be in the same condition as when it was locked away 10,000 years ago).


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

its true its true its true!!!! well I believe why not all the evidence and hey I am happy as a pig in shit that a traitor legion possibly has a loyalist faction to it instead all the good guys jumping ship god damn Excommunicate Traitoris. lol

Yeah WHAT CoE lol


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

well after the heresy the imperium did stop shuning away from pshykers.

in which case they created the blood ravens from the thousand son seed hoping this whould give them an edge


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## vortex_13 (Apr 17, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Actually most sources claim he wanted Magnus and the Thousand Sons destroyed and Prospero burnt to the ground.


A Thousand Sons claims that Russ was talked into destroying Prospero by Horus and a member of the Custodes.


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## vortex_13 (Apr 17, 2010)

nate187 said:


> its true its true its true!!!! well I believe why not all the evidence and hey I am happy as a pig in shit that a traitor legion possibly has a loyalist faction to it instead all the good guys jumping ship god damn Excommunicate Traitoris. lol
> 
> Yeah WHAT CoE lol


There were loyalists from every legion. Some Death Guard and Luna Wolves loyalists actually made it to Terra in order to warn the Emperor.


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## Alexious (Apr 13, 2009)

Regarding the gene seed issue.

Knowledge of what and if their is anything still there from the traitor legions is sparse at best. To my knowledge and understanding though, it would not be the first time that strange goings on with gene seed have happened with the full participation of the Adeptus Mech or other groups.

For example;

Adeptus Mech have a strained relationship accordingly with the BA chapter. Due to the Baal STC. But have happily experimented with the gene seed. (Lamentors being the prime example, trying to remove the flaw)

The Mentor legion strikes me as another which could be Thousand Sons descendant or have a Chaos Primarch at its founding gene seed. 

The Relictors are another that have strayed happily down the path of using Demon Weapons like an Inq renegade. (whether this is cirucmstance or could have already been latently present as a desire in the gene seed is interesting)


The truth of the matter probably is that the Blood Ravens have a relationship with the TS. If true great... if not all good too. The idea is a compelling one and gives them a sinister edge. If however it is true, this would probably not be a limited case. I am sure the Adeptus Mech would experiment, reliance on one source could be dangerous for gene seed. What if something attacked the Ultramarine gene seed in such a way on a biological level... you would wipe out half the damn chapters! 

That said, it raises the possibility of other chapters out there with strange gene seed, or perhaps gene seed from questionable sources. Their is a chapter supposedly with some type of gene seed relationship with the GK as well.... exorcists? I think. Or they do something to the intiates during gene seed therapy which gives them an edge vs the demonic or demonic possession. (cant exactly recall it).

It has already also been "themed" the start of the Inq was from remaining loyalists of the betraying legions... so perhaps its a shrouded but dirty fact that they do it more often than anyone realises....


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

vortex_13 said:


> A Thousand Sons claims that Russ was talked into destroying Prospero by Horus and a member of the Custodes.


No it doesn't. It implies it, all it says is:

"He saw the honeyed words of Horus and the sinister urgings of Constantin Valdor, each spoken with very different purposes, but designed to sway Leman Russ towards a destination of total destruction." - _A Thousand Sons_, Page 535.

But that doesn't mean that Horus and/or Valdor manipulated the Emperor's order. They could have just reaffirmed it and spurned on Russ. For all we know Russ may have been reluctant to carry out the Emperor's order to kill his Brother Primarch (regardless of their precarious relationship), and it was Horus and/or Valdor that reaffirmed the Emperor's order to remind Russ to actually destroy Prospero rather than just capture Magnus.

But I think _A Thousand Sons_ if anything more portrays the Emperor ordering Magnus and his Legion destroyed, rather than just captured. See his speech at Nikaea (both in _A Thousand Sons_ and _The Collected Visions_):

"Woe betide he who ignores my warning or breaks faith with me. He shall be my enemy, and I will visit such destruction upon him and all his followers that, until the end of all things, he shall rue the day he turned from my light." - _A Thousand Sons_, Page 356.

Sounds to me, that this is a promise the Emperor wouldn't break.

But _A Thousand Sons_ aside, all other sources where the Burning of Prospero is mentioned states that the Emperor orders Magnus dead and his Legion shattered, _The Collected Visions_ for example.



TheSpore said:


> in which case they created the blood ravens from the thousand son seed hoping this whould give them an edge


They expected one chapter to make a difference on a Galatic Scale? The Blood Ravens hardly give the Imperium 'an edge' against all their enemies.


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## grimdarkness (Apr 19, 2010)

how long have the Blood Ravens been active?


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

well what i meant by that was maybe that was the overall goal with creating blood ravens even though that wasnt what happened. Hell th blood ravens talk of having a primarch mayeb one of the lost primarch's could be where the chaptr came from.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I did not mean that he only created a chapter but maybe he intended it to be a legion but only got time to make a few hundred marines before he ascended. Maybe he then revealed them at a unsuspicious time so no one would know. After all the outrage of a new marine legion created from traitor marines would make some angry.


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

vortex_13 said:


> There were loyalists from every legion. Some Death Guard and Luna Wolves loyalists actually made it to Terra in order to warn the Emperor.


I know that there were during the horus heresy mate but during 40K time there are none champ


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> It happens in Dawn of War: Tempest. Ahriman asks an amnesiac Space Marine whether he thinks its a coincidence that the Thousand Sons original colour was red, and their Librarians wore blue, which is now standard for Librarians.
> 
> Personally I think he is being truthful, it makes sense when stacked up with everything else that points to the Blood Ravens being descended from a Traitor Legion.


I agree with you here, because...



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I think its more likely that the Blood Ravens are a faction or splinter group of the Thousand Sons Legion that either simply remained loyal or exiled themselves at some point following the Burning of Prospero.


...in _A Thousand Sons_, Kallista sees the future in her death throes, mentioning "the lost sons and a raven of blood. They cry out for salvation and knowledge, But it is denied! A brother betrayed, a brother murdered! The worst mistake for the noblest reason! It cannot happen, but it must!"

If this, coupled with Ahriman`s words in DoW Tempest doesn`t make it blindingly obvious, then I give up.

Also, the fellowship led by the marine Ankhu Anen is represented by a raven.:grin:


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

grimdarkness said:


> how long have the Blood Ravens been active?


The Blood Ravens have been active since either M35 or M37. They have no record of their founding or their Primarch from those days.

I think that the original Blood Ravens knew exactly how they were founded but chose, out of shame or guilt or fear I dont know, not to tell anyone even those in the chapter instead telling them that they had no idea how the Blood Ravens were founded. And eventually they died and nobody within the chapter knew how they had been founded or which Primarch's blood flows through their veins. And they took it upon themselves to find out, which I imagine the original Blood Ravens would have staunchly opposed.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

The other problem is that in the early days the whole of the 5th company turned renagade. Which gives them even more reason to not to tell of their origins. The earliest records are from the time of Arijah Vidjah (I can't remember how to spell his name) We don't know anything about them prior to him, but its implied that he was not one of the 1st BRs.

The BRs talk about primarch because all SMs are from a primarch, they just don't know who it is, well Thule and angelos know, but they ordered the records burnt and destroyed. There's more evidence of a 1k son connection than any other.


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## vortex_13 (Apr 17, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> No it doesn't. It implies it, all it says is:
> 
> "He saw the honeyed words of Horus and the sinister urgings of Constantin Valdor, each spoken with very different purposes, but designed to sway Leman Russ towards a destination of total destruction." - _A Thousand Sons_, Page 535.
> 
> ...


I'd say that it was a promise he totally meant to break seeing as how he was planning on having Magnus run the Golden Throne for him while he continued his work on the webway.

Besides, how exactly did the Emperor expect that to work out? "I want all of you guys to stop being psykers now" Really? He must have known that wasn't possible at all.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

vortex_13 said:


> I'd say that it was a promise he totally meant to break seeing as how he was planning on having Magnus run the Golden Throne for him while he continued his work on the webway.


His original plan was to have Magnus run the Golden Throne, but after Magnus broke his promise, ignored the Emperor's warnings and edicts that was no longer plausable. And thats aside from the fact that Magnus made the Emperor's plan to sit him on the Throne impossible, considering he shattered not only the Golden Throne, but the wards to the Imperial Webway and the Palace at a crucial moment.

The vast majority of sources on the Burning of Prospero state that the Emperor directly ordered Magnus killed and Prospero destroyed. No source makes any claim to the contrary, so im going with that. 

And why wouldn't the Emperor ordered Magnus killed? Magnus was wholly corrupt by this point. _The Collected Visions_ and _A Thousand Sons_ make it fairly clear that Magnus was the puppet of Tzeentch all along, the Emperor had no choice but to kill him, he was a danger to the Imperium, the Emperor's plans, and humanity as a species.



vortex_13 said:


> Besides, how exactly did the Emperor expect that to work out? "I want all of you guys to stop being psykers now" Really? He must have known that wasn't possible at all.


It could have worked out if Magnus had heeded the warnings of the Emperor upon being discovered, at Nikaea, and the countless times in between.


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## vortex_13 (Apr 17, 2010)

Seems like it would have been a better idea to have Magnus hauled back to Terra and stuck on the Golden Throne so the Emperor could repair the damage he had caused.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

vortex_13 said:


> Seems like it would have been a better idea to have Magnus hauled back to Terra and stuck on the Golden Throne so the Emperor could repair the damage he had caused.


From the Emperor's perspective though, Magnus was wholly corrupted. Bringing an agent of Chaos into the heart of the Imperial Palace to reign over one of the most important Imperial projects ever conceived may not have been the way to go.


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## vortex_13 (Apr 17, 2010)

But he wasn't an agent of chaos until after the battle of Prospero. For all the bragging by the chaos god that he owned Magnus' soul he sure didn't seem to have any control over him. He didn't fall to chaos until right before the landed on the sorcerors planet.

Anyway, Blood Ravens could have been a splinter from right after nikea. Who's to say that some of the legion didn't actually listen to the emperor?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

vortex_13 said:


> But he wasn't an agent of chaos until after the battle of Prospero. For all the bragging by the chaos god that he owned Magnus' soul he sure didn't seem to have any control over him. He didn't fall to chaos until right before the landed on the sorcerors planet.


Firstly _The Collected Visions_ directly states that he was corrupted from the beginning (as of landing on Prospero following the scattering).

_A Thousand Sons_ even goes as far to imply dozens of times throughout the book concerning Tzeentch's involvement. Its fairly safe to assume that Magnus was a puppet of Tzeentch all along.

You may find this thread informative (the last few pages especially).


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