# Russ and the Lion



## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Right we all know that Russ and the Lion duelled upon the Crimson fortress, Russ got knocked out by the Lion in one blow whilst he was laughing his head off after the lion threw him through a table

I need details, any sourced specific details and i stress sourced, unsourced and you'll get a little rep bonus, sourced (not lexicanum) and we are talking as big as i can get

Such as the names of Russ's and the Lion's flagship?
The name of the planet the crimson fortress was on?
Any details of the fight?
Any details of the honour duels afterwards, how they are fought, where they are fought, how refularly?

Any detail you can think off however mundane you think they are all important to me and sources are especially important


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Lion El' Johnson's Flagship:


> "... Saroshi assassination attempt aboard the primarch's flahship, _The Invincible Reason"_. - _Fallen Angels Page 17_


Leman Russ's Flagship:


> "Russ's flagship, the _Hrafnke_l, led the Space Wolf Expeditionary fleet... "- _A Thousand Sons Page 242_


Well... I don't have a specific time 

Time:


> "According to legend, it was during the Horus Heresy that the two Chapters met for the first time." - _Space Wolves Codex 4th Edition Page 91_


- So we can count anytime before as not possible.

World:


> "It was upon the world of Dulan where the two Chapters came to blows." - _Space Wolves Codex 4th Edition Page 91_


They were fighting against:


> "It is said that the Space Wolves and Dark Angels were fighting alongside each other to depose the Tyrant Durath when suddenly and without warning, El'Johnson broke ranks and led his Dark Angels into the attack against the Tyrant's fortress." - _Space Wolves Codex 4th Edition Page 91_


Details of Battle:


> The Space Wolves found their flank unprotected, and many warriors were slain when the enemy counter-attacked. More galling to the prideful Leman Russ was the fact that the Dark Angels swept all before them and easily won the battle. After the conflict, hot-tempered and fearless, Russ stormed after El'Johnson and launched into the Dark Angels Primarch, fists flying and curses upon his lips. - _Space Wolves Codex 4th Edition Page 91_


How Long:


> "The two titanic warriors battled for a day and a night, each unable to overcome the other." - _Space Wolves Codex 4th Edition Page 91_


Result:


> "At last the pair broke apart, and Russ, seeing the humour in the situation, began to laugh- quietly at first, but soon with a fulsome roar of mirth. The Dark Angels Primarch looked upon Russ with disgust. He saw the Fenrisian King's blow as treacherous, so he raised his fist and dealt the laughing Russ with such a blow that he was rendered unconscious. Considering his honour to be satisfied, El'Johnson left the fortress and set off into space. - _Space Wolves Codex 4th Edition Page 91"_


Honor Duels:


> "So it is that every time the two Chapters meet, a champion from each Chapter is called upon to refight the ancient duel between the two Primarchs in order that honour and traditions be satisfied." - _Space Wolves Codex 4th Edition Page 91_


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

Amen to that a sucker punch from hell I say!!!

A fortress is built with blood and toil. Only by blood and toil may it be taken.

Leman Russ


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Some Speculation of Russ looking for the Lion.



> "No one knows what happened to Leman Russ. Some say he disappeared in the Eye of Terror whilst searching for his old friend and rival, the Primarch Lion El'Johnson."_- Space Wolves Codex Pg. 21 4th Edition_


I can't actually find another piece of evidence that shows that the Lion and Russ were friends. So this is an interesting remark, though having only scanned through the Dark Angels Codex I could have missed something. But I don't have it with me at this time. The only other evidence that could suggest these legions were very close. Same page as above source and page. Random fact though I don't know if this helps (only if the statement is actually true) but the year Russ goes missing on 197 on the Feast of the Emperor's Ascension.



> "Fenris breeds heroes like a bar breeds drunks- loud, proud and spoiling for a fight."-_ Grand Master Belial of the Dark Angels (Space Wolves Codex Pg. 21 4th Edition)_"


This demonstrates acknowledgement and respect with a little bit of "comical tone" between the legions despite the bitter rivalry.

Sorry dude Im runnen out of ammo here. If I find anything else I'm sure I'l let you know. :victory:


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

It should be noted that the Dark Angels Codex's give a different account of the battle at Dulan. 

I don't have the book on me but I remember that according to them the Tyrant insulted Leman Russ and called him the Emperor's lap dog. Russ obviously took offense and swore an oath to take the Tyrant's head. He then led his forces into a head on assault sacrificing lives for every inch of ground he gained. 

Lion on the other hand had already laid out a detailed plan of attack and wasn't about to change it just because Russ lost his temper. So he refused to support Russ letting the Wolves just get on with it while he prepared to make his own move. I think it ended up with something like three days of fighting as the Wolves continued their all out attack and the Dark Angels laid their plans. 

On the final day Lion made his move and went through the Fortresses defences like turpentine through a sick donkey. He smashed through the fortresses weak points and got into the inner fortress. Meanwhile Leman finally smashed his way into the inner fortress and was just in time to see Lion fighting the Tyrant and to witness Lion taking the Tyrant's head even though he knew about Russ's oath. 

That's what started the whole fight. Russ made his oath on his own honour. Lion obviously thought that honour wasn't as important as victory.



ckcrawford said:


> Some Speculation of Russ looking for the Lion.
> 
> I can't actually find another piece of evidence that shows that the Lion and Russ were friends. So this is an interesting remark, though having only scanned through the Dark Angels Codex I could have missed something. But I don't have it with me at this time. The only other evidence that could suggest these legions were very close. Same page as above source and page. Random fact though I don't know if this helps (only if the statement is actually true) but the year Russ goes missing on 197 on the Feast of the Emperor's Ascension.
> 
> ...


Actually this could be a little clue about further events during The Heresy. I mean somebody chased off the Alpha Legion while they were attacking the Space Wolves battered fleet. Could have been the Dark Angels coming up behind the Alpha Legion and being Fresh for the fight. The Twins weren't daft they would probably have decided discretion was the better part of valor rather than get stuck between those two. 
It's plausable We know the Dark Angels were heading to Terra and that the Wolves somehow broke free and were one of the three Legion about to Drop out of Warp and attack Horus fleet.


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

Everything is pretty much answered, except that the time is before the Horus Heresy and destruction of Prospero, its mentioned in the "thousand sons" book, on the planet Shrike, Lorgar confronts Russ and reminds him of his duel with Lion'el, so im guessing the duel between the primarchs was at an early stage of the Great Crusade.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> I can't actually find another piece of evidence that shows that the Lion and Russ were friends.


'You must calm your fury brother. Anger is no one's friend when hard choices must be made. Let it cloud your mind and all you will have when it is gone are regrets. Remember Dulan?'

'Aye,' said Russ, and his thunderous expression mellowed. 'The war with the Lion.'

'You brawled with Jonson in the throne room of the fallen Tyrant, and yet now you are oath-sworn brothers-in-arms. This is no different.'

- _A Thousand Sons_, page 240.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Index Astartes 1 pg.20 supports everything said so far, with the exception that the duel occured prior to the Heresy.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

The Lion did not refuse to support the Space Wolves in an already occuring fight. Rather, he ignored Russ' vows and launched his own assault, having already planned it. Russ was caught in a melee and howled in frustration as El'Jonson slew the Tyrant who had insulted him.

There is also the other old piece of fluff wherein the Lion blames Russ for their late arrival to Terra and the Emperor's crippling.

Russ, heartbroken, bears his chest and invites the Lion to strike him down. El'Jonson obliges him, but turns the blow at the last moment, realizing what he's doing. He remains by his bedside until he heals, and then reaffirms their vows of friendship and brotherhood.

And then he goes to Caliban... AND NEVER RETURNS.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Phoebus said:


> The Lion did not refuse to support the Space Wolves in an already occuring fight. Rather, he ignored Russ' vows and launched his own assault, having already planned it. Russ was caught in a melee and howled in frustration as El'Jonson slew the Tyrant who had insulted him.
> 
> There is also the other old piece of fluff wherein the Lion blames Russ for their late arrival to Terra and the Emperor's crippling.
> 
> ...


That actually sounds pretty cool. Where did you read up on it?


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Dark angels codex and space wolf codex have very different views upon the duel though +rep to all who have posted in particular crawford who was fantastic

Anyone that doesnt receive nudge me

Quoting DA codex roughly

both arrived
DA planned assault 
Russ got pissed and demanded to take the lead in the assault on his own in order to avenge being called the emperors lapdog
Lion told him where to stick that idea as he had already scouted the fortress
Lion drops to earth and begins assault
Space wolves follow suit


Here is where it starts to get a little varied obviously with the points of view between the da and space wolves

The lion having planned properly breaks the wall and moves into the tower
Russ is held up in the melee as the enemy counterattacks on his now exposed flank
Looks up to see the lion at the top of the tower beheading the leader
Russ goes beserk and in true sw fashion tears up the tower and smashes the Lion on the jaw
Fight breaks out ovr day and night till Russ begins laughing and the Lion plants him one

Anyone see a discrepency


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## Lucio (Aug 10, 2009)

Coder59 said:


> Actually this could be a little clue about further events during The Heresy. I mean somebody chased off the Alpha Legion while they were attacking the Space Wolves battered fleet. Could have been the Dark Angels coming up behind the Alpha Legion and being Fresh for the fight. The Twins weren't daft they would probably have decided discretion was the better part of valor rather than get stuck between those two.
> It's plausable We know the Dark Angels were heading to Terra and that the Wolves somehow broke free and were one of the three Legion about to Drop out of Warp and attack Horus fleet.


That was not the Dark Angels as they returned to Caliban to find Luther and their homeworld full of Fallen Dark Angels and subsequently bombarded and assaulted it. It climaxed with Luther knocking the Lion over and going insane before he could kill the Lion. After which the chaos gods threw a tantrum and sucked most of the planet into the warp. When the rest of the chapter got to the site of the battle they found Luther babbling nonsense and the Lion was nowhere to be found. Both are hidden somewhere in the Rock, with Luther still babbling incoherantly with occassional mentions of the Lion coming back and forgiving them and the Lion is somewhere else sleeping. Presumably the Watchers in the Dark took the Lion away before the loyal DA could find him.

Source: DA 'dex


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Well the timing seems to be very close or maybe wrong in terms of both the legions meeting for the first time during the heresy and Logar's accounts and knowledge about their duel in _A Thousand Sons_ which it seems was before the Heresy. Considering the fact that Magnus was the only one there besides Erebus in the transformation of Horus to the Chaos.

Horus' Fever Dream: 



> Horus: What are you? And no lies.
> Magnus: A friend.
> Horus: Magnus. Is it really you?
> Magnus: Yes, my brother, it is.
> ...


This proves that the Horus Heresy did not occur before or during the Lion's and the Wolf King's fight as Logar explains this fight before Prospero Burning and Magnus' knowledge of Horus turning.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Lucio said:


> That was not the Dark Angels as they returned to Caliban to find Luther and their homeworld full of Fallen Dark Angels and subsequently bombarded and assaulted it. It climaxed with Luther knocking the Lion over and going insane before he could kill the Lion. After which the chaos gods threw a tantrum and sucked most of the planet into the warp. When the rest of the chapter got to the site of the battle they found Luther babbling nonsense and the Lion was nowhere to be found. Both are hidden somewhere in the Rock, with Luther still babbling incoherantly with occassional mentions of the Lion coming back and forgiving them and the Lion is somewhere else sleeping. Presumably the Watchers in the Dark took the Lion away before the loyal DA could find him.
> 
> Source: DA 'dex


Lion's return to Caliban is _after_ the completion of the Heresy, as defined by Horus' death. The Space Wolves were attacked by the Alpha Legion _before_ Horus was slain (and after the Battle of Prospero).

The fluff has rather consistently added to this bit that they were aided by "an unexpected ally". Given that it has also consistently stated that the Lion and Russ travelled to Terra together to help the Emperor (but got there too late), the Dark Angels may very well have been that unexpected ally.

All this might change by the time the new novels are written, but the fluff that describes the above (and the Lion and Russ' re-affirmation of friendship after the Emperor's being placed in the Golden Throne) dates from the same era as the Codices that claimed the Lion was still hidden in the Rock, waiting until he was needed by mankind again.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lucio said:


> That was not the Dark Angels as they returned to Caliban to find Luther and their homeworld full of Fallen Dark Angels and subsequently bombarded and assaulted it. It climaxed with Luther knocking the Lion over and going insane before he could kill the Lion. After which the chaos gods threw a tantrum and sucked most of the planet into the warp. When the rest of the chapter got to the site of the battle they found Luther babbling nonsense and the Lion was nowhere to be found. Both are hidden somewhere in the Rock, with Luther still babbling incoherantly with occassional mentions of the Lion coming back and forgiving them and the Lion is somewhere else sleeping. Presumably the Watchers in the Dark took the Lion away before the loyal DA could find him.
> 
> Source: DA 'dex


Er noooo. The Dark Angels went to Terra first and were one of the three Legions coming up behind Horus along with the Ultramarines and the Space Wolves. They didn't go to Caliban until AFTER the Battle of Terra.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Phoebus said:


> The fluff has rather consistently added to this bit that they were aided by "an unexpected ally". Given that it has also consistently stated that the Lion and Russ travelled to Terra together to help the Emperor (but got there too late), the Dark Angels may very well have been that unexpected ally.


The implication is certainly there, and I think its widely presumed that the 'unexpected ally' was Jonson and the First Legion. Although its still wide open, and something which would be great to elaborate on in a future Alpha Legion novel.


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## Lucio (Aug 10, 2009)

I never said they didnt go to terra. My timeline is a bit off then, however they didnt dissapear into the warp


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The implication is certainly there, and I think its widely presumed that the 'unexpected ally' was Jonson and the First Legion. Although its still wide open, and something which would be great to elaborate on in a future Alpha Legion novel.


Am I the only one who thinks it could be really fun to see the Twins take on the Lion and the Wolf (hereafter known as the Dynamic Duo) in a four way battle?


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

How about "the Manimals"?

Child of the Emperor, (as much as I like the Dark Angels, I say this with sarcasm), I imagine what you mention will probably be seen somewhere in one of the five or six other DA-related Horus Heresy novels. :grin:


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

The two chapters do however refight that duel whenever they meet, using champions to fight for the honour of their chapters. This is in one of the older SW codecies though, in the same one that said it was not unknown for outright battle to break out when they encounter each other.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

If reading the Fallen Angels, youll find out the Lion was found around the year 147 during the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy spread somewhere between the year 203-204, depending on how you see it. So you got a time-frame on about little over 50 years, removing the first few years as they served with the White Scars in the Saroshi (spelling) system and the final years battling to get the siege weapons and Russ being ockupied with the Thousand Sons.


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