# Chain fist or thunder hammer?



## Learchus (Feb 12, 2012)

In 5th edition everyone was using termy assault squads over the normal ones, but now i wonder if it's still worth it. With thunder hammers no longer having any bonus against armor, the only advantage assault squads have is the better inv save from storm shields. But speaking from a pow of combat effectiveness, a normal squad have better close combat capacity against armor thanks to chain fists, and a very little less against infantry cause they just lack the concussive rule. So by picking a assault squad in 6th you are loosing the awesome ranged firepower of 5 storm bolters and a cyclone (or 4 bolters and a asscan) just to have a little better inv save and a lame concussive USR. Doesn't seem worth anymore to me.


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## Sinsinaty (Jul 13, 2012)

I have only every played as Necrons, 4th and 5th edition rules for Necron codex. I've tested out a 2000 Point army list, 
against : 2000 Points of Tau
against : 2000 Points of Grey Knights

I was against a 9 Man squad of Grey Knight Terminators, with 2 Deathwing Terminators, 1 Deathwing Terminator Sergeant, Belial. I was clearly taking them one, easily after issuing challenged with my sergeant and winning considering he had a Thunder Hammer. Although the Grey Knight Terminators assaulted me, so they had more attacks and stuff, but when you've got a 2+ save as a terminator and 3+ invunerable save, you're safe. Grey Knight terminators have 2+ save and 5+ invun, therefore you're making them take a 5+ invun and you're winning. I did the mistake in only taking 10 terminators 8 died in the whole game, 3 servived and killed loads. I took out a dreadnight with 3 terminators (including sergeant) and Belial, all with Thunder hammers. You will kill anything in combat with Thunder Hammers, worth going last, and 2+ save. Chain Fists, I only thought was any good against vehicle, I guess it depends on what army you're facing.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Have you not heard of AP1/2 firepower? You'll be begging for storm shields after one shooting phase...


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## psactionman (Jul 1, 2012)

I think they have their place. Str8 is still good against a tank, with 3 attacks each (2 base and 1 for charging since they will always charge a vehicle) even a squad of 5 will put out 15 attacks, hitting on a 3+ (or automatically if it stayed still) equals 10-15 attacks 1.66-2.5 glancing hits against a LR. Aim for something lighter than that and you can wipe them out and protect yourself against an ap2-1 weapon. Like, for example, surviving long enough to bring a MC down to I1.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

I only take chainfists when running Deathwing really. 4 TH/SS and one Chainfist, plus a Cyclone Launcher thrown in is my chosen setup.
I don't really bother with vanilla shooty termies (and hence chainfists), because there are better ways to spend ~240 points on anti-infantry.


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## psactionman (Jul 1, 2012)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> there are better ways to spend ~240 points on anti-infantry.


Like a full 10-man Sternguard Squad. Ranging from AP3 Vengence Rounds to wounds on a 2+ Hellfire Bolts. I took out a Mawloc with my Sternguards from 20" away with 1 round of shooting Hellfire Bolts. Definitely points better spent than on 5 Termies who would not get the same result.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Or you could be uber like BT and run TWO Cyclones or AssCans with your Termi squad, with Tank Hunter to boot.


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## Sinsinaty (Jul 13, 2012)

For a 5man Deathwing terminator squad is 235 Points. They can upgrade there weapons and stuff to Thunder Hammer and Storm shields for free, this means you have a 2+ save, and a 3+ invun either way going against anything you're hitting on 2's or 3's maximum. They are a kick as machine, No doubt about it Take *THUNDER HAMMERS!*


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## LordStubert (Mar 21, 2011)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> Have you not heard of AP1/2 firepower? You'll be begging for storm shields after one shooting phase...


As an Ork player, no ... no I have not


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## returnoftheclown (Mar 14, 2012)

:goodpost:

I have had the displeasure of fighting both assault and 'normal' termies and have to say that assault terminators are great...if you can get them into assault. Sure the surviability of the assault terminators is improved by the invul save but force them to take enough saves and your done for. So then you have to invest in something to keep them alive long enough to get there which is also pricey. Suddenly you've spent over 1/4 of your point limit on one unit that *MIGHT* get to where it needs. I think the variety you get with the normal ones and the fact that they can shoot directly after deepstrike is a winner. 

But of course thats just my opinon.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

LordStubert said:


> As an Ork player, no ... no I have not


No, Orks instead win through the bullet rain technique. Besides, what's Orkier than more Dakka?

"Oi, Gobsmack, what's the 'eather look 'ike?"

"Shooty wit' a chance of dakka I think."

"Jus' da way I likes it!"


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Shooty terminators are good for deepstriking, all others need some method of getting close to be effective - so assault termies are nice, but they need some form of 'injection method' to get them into cc.

In my last game I faced 30 DW terminators with my eldar - but the majority deepstriked into shooting range for my eldar so I didn't have a problem. 
Then again I had 3 wraithlords, a wraithseer, 2 squads of pathfinders, 5 fire dragons, 10 wraithguard, eldrad, The Avatar and a maxed squad of avengers to shoot with for a turn...and he had cc weapons and had to stand there and take it. 

For me terminators are great, but like the eldar, don't try to do something they aren't suited for. 30 deep striking termies with guns would've probably wiped me off the map. The assualt termies I would've run at me with covering fire and let me try to get through 30 of them charging.

So it's horses for courses...


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## Sinsinaty (Jul 13, 2012)

As a DA army player, I believe taking Thunder Hammers is kick ass, as they are for free! Instant killing on Paladins with 2 wounds, WOO


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## psactionman (Jul 1, 2012)

Gret79 said:


> Shooty terminators are good for deepstriking, all others need some method of getting close to be effective - so assault termies are nice, but they need some form of 'injection method' to get them into cc.
> 
> In my last game I faced 30 DW terminators with my eldar - but the majority deepstriked into shooting range for my eldar so I didn't have a problem.
> Then again I had 3 wraithlords, a wraithseer, 2 squads of pathfinders, 5 fire dragons, 10 wraithguard, eldrad, The Avatar and a maxed squad of avengers to shoot with for a turn...and he had cc weapons and had to stand there and take it.
> ...


If you DS your termies in with no cover or back-up plan to protect them then I think you deserve to lose them. With that kind of firepower in range I would never just leave them in the open like that...


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