# Against some Eldar cheddar



## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

I was playing against an Eldar player yesterday and had to face a rather cheesy unit. It was a unit of 6 Eldar, all on jetbikes. 4 were warlocks, and a believe the other two were an Autarch and a farseer. Now, I'm not completely sure what gave this unit what it had, but he said it was over a 500 point unit. They had 3+ re-rollable invul saves. They didn't have lances but the autarch was carrying the equivalent of a power weapon. I they had charged a unit of my plague marines and one of them got a S6 attack. All I know is that they were a rather tough unit and I only took out 2. Any ideas on how a CSM (or any army) player could handle this? And please don't say something like, "Take abbadon."


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## hurt-wm (Jun 8, 2008)

They die just like space marines. Massed bolters or heavy bolters. If they get into combat try to countercharge them (takes away their advantage) with something tough (your plague marines), they're puny eldar strength wont do them much good vs.T5. Good luck, I wish I got to battle eldar more often.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Aw, the Psych Jetbike squad of doom... It could have been much much worse for you. Im guessing the Farseer just had Fortune (re-role saves) and Doom (re-role to wound) or Mind War ( I don't like you... you die now...)

Well, the Warlocks all have witch blades, so always wounding on 2+ makes them good against anything. The Autarch most likely had a Lance (S6 power weapon) and his great amount of attacks with it. 

The problem with these guys on jetbikes is they now get a 3+ save. Sure their just wearing power armour, but with a farseer that is uber power armour with re-roles!

I would suggest shooting and flaming them as much as possible with S4+ weapons. They are a HUGE point sink for us Eldar players and usually a squad like this is the backbone of an army, kill it and you'll just be cleaning up the rest.


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

What you need are weapons to cancel out their armour saves so the benefits of Fortune are only used on the Inv saves. . .


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

They did have fortune and doom, and unfortunately for me, doom worked on my plaguebringers. The only thing I could really think of was units that inflict an insane number of hits because even with re-rolls, they're bound to lose some. The thing is though, it has to be ranged (like an assault cannon) because in CC not much has the same or higher initiative. Having ranged weapons doesn't help much either because on jetbikes, they're bound to be in CC on turn 2 or 3.


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

Remember that the Autarch and, more importantly, the Farseer are Independent Characters and will be Instant Killed by str6 hits so you could attempt to do that in combat. . .


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

Don't they gain the 3+ invul saves?


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## Autarch of Bahls (Aug 2, 2008)

ok, why are eldar players telling Space Marine players how to kill one the best strategies of our army? i realize it's just a game, but let them figure it out.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

Autarch of Bahls said:


> ok, why are eldar players telling Space Marine players how to kill one the best strategies of our army? i realize it's just a game, but let them figure it out.


Because this is suppose to be a friendly community where questions can be asked and things can be learned. Also, it's probably for the same reason that CSM players can say what's best to deal with their army.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

I never enjoy putting Warlocks and Farseers on Jetbikes, I typically take a 10 man squad of Warlocks with Eldrad + Yirel. Some have Embolden, Enhance and the rest have Destructor. Its not as fast as jetbikes but I typically put them in a Wave serpent so I get them into CC turn 2 sometimes turn 1. 

Jetbikes are horribly inefficient IMHO, but as someone previously said massed fire will take them out, don't expect to fire one rocket and have it do something.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Vindicators never went wrong...... also a defiler could do it... in ranged and CC.... Eldar are fast with high inititave so best bet is to give survivable guys a lot of power fists and the like.... You'd be wounding on 2+ and hitting on a 4+ which isn't bad..... a good idea My cousin used against a similar tactic was thousand sons..... The rhino helps get them closer on their turn, plus they can rapid fire


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

Heh, too bad I wasn't facing them with my Necron army. I might have finally found a niche for my nightbringer with his ability to ignore invul saves.


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

BloodAngelZeros said:


> Don't they gain the 3+ invul saves?


No, they have 3+ armour, 4+ Inv and a 3+ cover _if_ they Turbo Boost. . .


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## The_Pi (Mar 20, 2008)

I'd use something big, being favs battlecannon, demilisher or earthshaker.


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## beeny13 (Mar 30, 2008)

the worst thing possible for that player would be facing a terminator squad with 2 assault cannons, baal predator.

for chaos if you have autocannon havocs they could do some damage.

basically if you can mass some high strength hits a lucky missed save will outright kill his characters.

other than that heavy bolters would come in handy s5 vs t3 causes a lot of wounds, but you would need a lot of them at the same time, since it should take 7 heavy bolters to cause 2 wounds... ouch that is bad.

well i guess the heavy weapons are the only way to go against that, but even then you need 4 wounds to kill one model.


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## beeny13 (Mar 30, 2008)

well the dreadnought with a plasma cannon wouldn't be bad. raptors with plasma could help but probably not much.


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## H0RRIDF0RM (Mar 6, 2008)

Ragewind said:


> I never enjoy putting Warlocks and Farseers on Jetbikes, I typically take a 10 man squad of Warlocks with Eldrad + Yirel. Some have Embolden, Enhance and the rest have Destructor. Its not as fast as jetbikes but I typically put them in a Wave serpent so I get them into CC turn 2 sometimes turn 1.
> 
> Jetbikes are horribly inefficient IMHO, but as someone previously said massed fire will take them out, don't expect to fire one rocket and have it do something.


Dude the minimum squad cost for this unit would be 800+ and thats without any Pyschic Powers, Wargear, or vehicle upgrades. 

Not only that but I dont see how this unit could make close combat on its first turn. The unit has a maximum move, fleet, charge range of 18 inches? 

Without Jet Bikes you lose T4, and 3+ Save. 

You cannot use Fortune from the Wave Serpent and if the Wave Serpent crashes then every model takes a Str 4 hit at a 4+ save.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

The_Pi said:


> I'd use something big, being favs battlecannon, demilisher or earthshaker.


That would be single hits to a squad with invl. saves and re-roles. Plus, if you bring tanks against a warlock JB squad, you just put a smile on his face. Warlocks all have witchblades. So mass S9 hits on your rear armour is going to be nasty for you, and they're fast enough to get before you can do any real damage.



BloodAngelZeros said:


> They did have fortune and doom, and unfortunately for me, doom worked on my plaguebringers. The only thing I could really think of was units that inflict an insane number of hits because even with re-rolls, they're bound to lose some. The thing is though, it has to be ranged (like an assault cannon) because in CC not much has the same or higher initiative. Having ranged weapons doesn't help much either because on jetbikes, they're bound to be in CC on turn 2 or 3.


The higher initiative is something to fear, and if the autarch is with them, even cover won't help you anymore. Throw a full squad into them and hope for the best... Also any anti-psycher options would help keep the farseer in check. Anything helps.



beeny13 said:


> well i guess the heavy weapons are the only way to go against that, but even then you need 4 wounds to kill one model.


Actually, you can instant death both the farseer and the Autarch because they're guardsmen... a pitiful T3. And the Warlocks only have one wound per model so its just a matter of forcing them to make as many saves as possible, they only need to fail one :biggrin:

EDIT: The Jetbikes make them T4, I forgotted... Still a powerfist can still instant kill either of them.



Autarch of Bahls said:


> ok, why are eldar players telling Space Marine players how to kill one the best strategies of our army? i realize it's just a game, but let them figure it out.


If someone asked me to help them trick out their list to completely DOMINATE any of my Eldar lists, I would gladly sit down and talk it through with them; Strengths, Weaknesses, Etc. Its always good to know what you should bring in your list and it keeps it competitive. If they want to build a list with the sole purpose to destroy an Eldar psycher squad, they can go ahead. And when they put that list up on the board and face a Nid list, I just :laugh: and sit down with him again to build a balanced list. Its always good to talk about your own list flaws, it helps you recognize what is a real threat to your own army.


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

> EDIT: The Jetbikes make them T4, I forgotted... Still a powerfist can still instant kill either of them.


The added T bonus doesn't make a difference for Instant-Death. . .


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

solitaire said:


> The added T bonus doesn't make a difference for Instant-Death. . .


But it makes it harder to achieve an instant death by shooting at them. S6 vs S8


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Be glad he didn't bring Eldrad.

An obnoxious amount of psychic powers that will -always- work (he rolls three dice and picks the lowest two.), and with the added benefit of any psychic powers you use having a 50% chance to perils of the warp and fail(You roll 3d6 and pick the highest.)

And that power has unlimited range. Also he can move his units around before deployment, has a witchblade and some kind of wonky pistol, and all this for less than abaddon. 

I'd suggest Kharn. As odd as it is, he ignores some of the more devastating psychic powers "doom" "veil of tears" "that template nonsense" "mind war" and has high enough init to fight back with basic eldar infantry. (Do they all -really- need to be i5 or i6? Really?)

I've yet to beat the bastard hahah. The eldar army is just really damn solid.


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## Untitled401 (May 12, 2008)

The majority of the eldar army is just as fragile as guardsmen with their T3 and some 4+ armour units. Yes they have Wraithlords/guard, uber psychers and skimmers of death but who cares? 

Go all marines with rhinos (no tanks, no elites, just standard marines) and a couple meltas, plasmas, power fists and you're good. That much bolter fire is guaranteed to ruin any childrens birthday.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

Desolatemm said:


> If someone asked me to help them trick out their list to completely DOMINATE any of my Eldar lists, I would gladly sit down and talk it through with them; Strengths, Weaknesses, Etc. Its always good to know what you should bring in your list and it keeps it competitive. If they want to build a list with the sole purpose to destroy an Eldar psycher squad, they can go ahead. And when they put that list up on the board and face a Nid list, I just :laugh: and sit down with him again to build a balanced list. Its always good to talk about your own list flaws, it helps you recognize what is a real threat to your own army.


Heh, I don't plan on building my entire army around the eldar. I still want to keep it balanced, I just want to see if something's workable that will give me a better edge against this unit. Pretty much the majority seems to be massive amount of firepower.


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

Desolatemm said:


> But it makes it harder to achieve an instant death by shooting at them. S6 vs S8


No it doesn't, the added T makes no difference for Instant Death; it'll still happen from a str6 hit. If you don't believe me it's on p53 of the Rulebook. . .


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

against such a unit, deploy conservatively, stick to the rear of your deployment zone. keep good heavy weapons where they will have to travel, and light them up, if they want the invulnerable save, they can do nothing other than move, which means you can shoot them for a few more turns, causing more attrition.


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## Janus Blackheart (Jan 24, 2008)

I would not dump to many shots into them as that just plays to there strength. Maybe some assault cannons or Hvy bolter fire to soften them up for a charge. What you do need is to charge them preferably with a character (librarian maybe) that can take out the Autoroch. After that your not looking at too many attacks back and none of them are power weapons.
Good luck.


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## Dessel_Ordo (Jul 28, 2008)

I agree, focusing too much on the bikes plays right into his hands... you have most heavy weps firing into them, you have an elite CC unit witing to assault them on your next turn... Then a squad of banshees, all with power weps, and those phreakin masks drops 15+ attacks on i(before you bitch!!:fuck wipes out the one decent cc unit (and the pricey IC you added to it to kill the autarch) is gone, completely wiped out.

lookin at the situation, its no different from any other good eldar list, epecially eldar synergy lists... lots of shooting, with a few decent cc units for a melee screen, and or lots of staying power will win if played intelligently.k:


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