# Luke's second impressions of the new WoC book.



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

So I have just been reading through the WoC book and its generally inline with most armies this edition. It probably now 1-2 pegs below ogres but we all know that was coming. I will be able to give a more informed opinion ones I can get some games in.

Things that jumped out at me the first time through
- Sorcerors are now more expensive, but now have access to four lores base
- Lore of Tzeentch is nothing special
- Warriors are more or less unchanged, but now are more expensive if you want to add and special marks or weapons on them then before
- Marauders are crazy expensive for what they are with a 2pt increase with no advantage what so ever, and forget about wargear and marks as then they become substantially more expensive then similar units in other armies
-Forsaken....fairly crappy really
-Warhounds true core and cheaper upgrades and now the same cost as a marauder
-DP worth his pts now and can buy armor
-Horseman are now generally cheaper and have no increase for the best load out unlike marauders 
- Knights are garbage for their cost unless you thing paying more for a unit that was already phasing out of use is a good thing
-Skull crushers are unmitigated shit. Sure they are deadly as all get out, but they have one wound each and cost more then a then fully loaded ogre cavalry. Fact is there is a point where a unit becomes so expensive for a single wound that it becomes a liability rather then a asset. This thing could give blood knights a run for their money in being over coasted.
-Mutations and powers are generally awesome and oddly the cheaper ones are the better part of the list.
-Warshrine only exists to make HQ's into DP's or killing machines, but are now a lot deadlier in CC


I may have missed something but this is how it looks so far.

Second Impressions


So I will be breaking down my impressions by the section them occupy and refining it as I play.

Core units.

*Warriors*
-The basic warrios are 1pt cheaper for the same stats
-Every other build whether with marks or special wargear is 2-3pts more depending one what you buy, but naked warriors with great weapons or halberd are actually the same cost due to the drop in pts cost.
-Marks are bought by model so a unit has no benefit in size to point effectiveness anymore
-Banner of rage is now a real stupid investment unless you expect to lose in combat a lot (Which if your spending points to get mark of khorne mean very rarely), honestly this is a fairly shitty magic item to give the unit as the 25pts could buy banners that would actually help them do their job better rather then wasting pts on a item that is insurance for something that will rarly happen.
-Blasted standard could be a good item for sword and board tzeentch warriors, but I am unsure if it halfs rounding down or half rounding up which drastically affects its value as most enemy attacks will be str3, and lest not forget that one of the true threats to the unit cannons give less then one shit about the standard, unlike the universal protection provided by the lst books version. However it will still greatly reduce the impact of generic enemy missile weapons.
*
Marauder's*
.......Suck
- No seriously they are generally now so cost inefective for a throw away unit that large bricks with stead fast will now cripple the rest of your army for the 7-8pts they cost.
-Still kind of pissed about the unjustified base cost increase I agree with what they did to marks, and weapons, but plus the base cost increase the unit is now tacticaly a liability for its cost (Chaos aren't empire they can't throw pts at shit tarpit units), and the combat builds cost upward from 8 to 10 pts a model...which is 5 pts short of the infinitely better warrior.
-My advice take in a single large brick, and only sapport the eventual combat if you have something that can counter the 6-10 combat rez the enemy will have from butchering marauders.

*Forsaken*
-Have the chance to have two more attacks then basic warriors
-They gained chaos armor and retained their 6M
-Mark of khorn give the most bang for you buck, but makes a expensive unit even more expensive.
-Unreliable due to random nature
-Unlike others I think 10 15 man bricks of forsaken would make a good flanking unit as they have ogre like speed yet retain warrior stats (Treat them like slow cavalry and you will be fine)

*Warhounds*
-Vanguard makes them a legitimate threat to warmachines in the fest opening turns for very little cost
- Poisoned is now cheap enough to actually considering taking

*Chariots*
-It switched slots, but is more or less the same
- I personally hate chariot lits, but its now perfectly possible to make a entire chariot army....ignore that the unit size is 1 unlike mos other chariot core units.
-Cost is reasonable enough to have 3 moving right next to each other as a horrible meat grinder especially with mark of khorn which is cheap enough to consider.

*Horsemen*
-a single pt more, but unlike marauders they are almost the exact same cost wise for all the popular builds.
-Mark of khorne flail marauders are still a viscous side flank charging unit.

All in all most to the changes to the core section are for the better or have no major detrimental impact, but stay away from marauders if you can as they are crap compared to the other core options.

So now for something very special

Specials

*Hellstriders of Slaanesh*
-Fastest bastards in the game that don't fly
-Hellscourges is a retarded upgrade as with I5 the only thing you gain is a re roll on the riders attack and with only one attack the re roll is not worth it for a single str3 attack especially when movement 10 means you will always get the charge making you for all intensive purposes str4 ap-1 on the charge (And if the enemy is there after the charge expect to lose the unit)
-Soul hunters first 2 upgrades are kind pointless as the enemies that these guys will be going after are warmachines or flank/rear charges so stubborn is pointless and your intended targets should be weak enough that devastating charge shouldn't overly help.
-They should never be used in units larger then 10 as they are designed for warmachine and sorc hunting, and would collapse even against empire infantry
-For the same cost you can get a khornate marauder horseman with flail....guess which is better 80% of the time

*Chosen*
-Despite what people have been saying warshrines can't buff the unit all it does for the unit is give you better control of the result they start with do to rolling a extra D6.
-That being said roll 4D6 drop two means you will be damn likely to get something awesome, in fact you are considerably more likely then last edition to roll something great
-.....take a champion as rolling dark apotheoses just to have it turned into the useless the eye opens is maddening
-Cost is more or less the same as last edition although marks and weapons are considerably more expensive, so consider running them with just shields

*Chaos knights*
-Now 43pts (unless you think paying 40pts for fast moving warriors is a good idea), and gain nothing for the price increase
-Some marks are actually cheaper as units rarely go beyond 10
-Really hard to justify these guys as bloodcrushers and dragon ogres are in all honesty better in most instances 
- Decent shock troops with mark of khorne and lances (Just don't get stuck in and avoid enemy shooting best you can)

*Chaos Ogres*
-Cheap and gain ogre charge
-Lost chaos armor upgrade
-These guys with great weapons are nasty at one pt more then a knight and are a hell lot more dangerous then basic chaos knights and more resilient against high strength shooting
-Mark of khorn and additional hand weapon will make these guys 100 times scarier to basic infantry then basis chaos warriors, and in fact are a hell lot deadlier then ogre kingdom ogres

*Dragon ogres*
-4 wounds and a chaos armor equivalent save with warrior toughness
-As fast as chaos knights
-Considering giving em great weapons as they then will cut through even the thickest armor and monsters in a single turn
-Halberds are priced retardedly for a unit that will never go first (Why the hell is the option even there?)

*Trolls*
-Lost mutant regeneration went down by 10pts and can now take a additional hand weapon for cheap
*
Chimera*
-Is awesome with regeneration, but like all monsters it will die in a single lucky shot from a bolt thrower or large cannon
-LD is shit, but you shouldn't be losing combat very often unless you foolishly plow into a steadfast brick, consider taking flame breath if you intend to do this as the addition 2D6 hits in CC will really help
*
Gorebeast
*
-Biggest advantages is actually its higher wound and T profile in my opinion
*
Chaos warshrine
*
-Fights better and is cheaper
-Can't buff units, but can drastically improve a HQ over the 1-2 turns walking up (Kinda stupid to buff squad champions unless you really are hoping on a 2 or a 12 and even then moderate LD mean that daemonhood even when rolled isn't guaranteed.
-Take one of these if you have chosen, otherwise many army builds can do fine without it
-Oh and the ability to buff champion and heroes and lords is now a bound spell so yah using its ability is now kinda of a tactical decision especially because you will need 2 dice to get it off reliably
-However it is a innate spell so feel free to aim for a miscast


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## Charandris (Nov 27, 2012)

Right so the human based mortal troups are all now basically a bit crap for points. how has this left a moster army looking? Or an all chariot core army? 
Really keen to know what throgg and kholek are like. Also, any new charcaters?


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Khorlek is now usable at a few more pts then 500pts. However he only has a 4+ armor save now.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

I'm hoping Kholeks lack of heavy armor is an oversight.

No new characters.

Throgg went up with very little change for te good. Lost D6 copious vomit but still has the breath vomit attack. Gained a Great weapon.

Trolls lost the mutant regeneration. May upgrade to 2HW. Same points. Supporting attacks may vomit now though.

Luke, re-read monstrous cavalry rules. Skull crushers have 3 wounds.


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## Sworn Radical (Mar 10, 2011)

LukeValantine said:


> - Warriors are more or less unchanged, but now are more expensive if you want to add and special marks or weapons on them then before


Exactly.
The only things that actually got cheaper are a few special characters in the 500+ points league, and some more or less negligible units. The only thing worth mentioning here is the Shaggoth if you ask me.



> -Warhounds true core and cheaper upgrades and now the same cost as a marauder


Can buy a vanguard upgrade now.



> -Warshrine only exists to make HQ's into DP's or killing machines, but are now a lot deadlier in CC


They're cheaper, but also not as useful as before, since they can only assist / support champions and independent characters now.
Which means, I'll be using them to bring out the beast (read Deamon Prince) in one of two to three unit chapions I'll be trying to keep in range. 
And, I might be missing something (though I think not), but how exactly are they a lot deadlier now ?
Also, can be taken as a mount choice now.


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## Sworn Radical (Mar 10, 2011)

DeathKlokk said:


> Supporting attacks may vomit now though.


They were able to do so before due to the FAQ, but yeah, now it's officialy printed in the army book.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

DeathKlokk said:


> Luke, re-read monstrous cavalry rules. Skull crushers have 3 wounds.


Oh thank god. For a second I thought Caddace had gone over the deep end. Hmmm that in mind I really fairly to see the allure of dragon ogres considering their 4+ armor save. Oh also I am loving the fact that our ogres now behave like actually ogres.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> Oh also I am loving the fact that our ogres now behave like actually ogres.


As an ogre player I might have to rage at the next WoC player who brings ogres wearing arm... amer... armr... armour. Ah got it, took me a few tries but then its not like I've ever seen it before.
I'm kinda hoping that chaos ogres have a points increase over standard ogres to compensate for the 4+ save (if they can still take it)... very annoying to me as no ogres other then mournfang get better then a 5+ in an actual ogre army (not even maneaters).


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Tim/Steve said:


> As an ogre player I might have to rage at the next WoC player who brings ogres wearing arm... amer... armr... armour. Ah got it, took me a few tries but then its not like I've ever seen it before.
> I'm kinda hoping that chaos ogres have a points increase over standard ogres to compensate for the 4+ save (if they can still take it)... very annoying to me as no ogres other then mournfang get better then a 5+ in an actual ogre army (not even maneaters).


Nah they only get a 5+ now and are just a few point over 30pts. Still dual hand weapon khornate ogres would bitch slap basic ogres fairly badly, and you can more or less make iron guts by given them a great weapon, but then they are a bit more then they used to cost.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

I wouldn't go too against Knights. Although they are likely 5-10pt too expensive they can be deadly. They are still super durable. Skullcrushers would be fantastic if they didn't compete with other rare choices, which I'd prefer, aka Hellcannons and Mutalith. As it stands I don't think they add much which other units don't, aka they are the epitome of classic chaos "point and shoot" (I play virtually mono-Tzeentch so may not give them full credit, models are ace though) 

I'm torn on the dragon ogres, again they are unit that hits very hard but will die in a protracted combat, Halberds were quite a silly upgrade considering the poor initiative of the DO and them being the same price as a GW 

I think that the key with chaos is locking a unit with warriors then also charging with monsters or knights.


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