# What is the hardest army to vs and why



## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

I think the hardest is tau to many big guns for me.


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## Holyboltshells (May 22, 2008)

Well my worst battle was against Necrons got absolutely wiped off the table when i was relatively new to the game. I was with Space Marines and it was a real shock to see them get cut up so easily.


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

I'm gonna have to agree with necrons.
If any of you saw that necron tactics thread with the hammer and anvil strategy, then you'll apreciate how goddamn bitching hard they are to kill, and how much damage they can do.
Also, being an eldar player, I alway seem to struggle with tyranids, for being a very fast cc army, if built correctly


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## njfed (Jan 28, 2008)

rock - paper - scissors...it all depends on what army I play.

For my Necrons it was against an IG army with lots of tanks. Now I know you may be thinking WTF?!?! Necrons should own vehicles. Yeah, that is what I thought. It was those darn pie plates that did me in. And this was not a pure armor company list, just maxed out on vehicles.


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

Mine would have to be Tyranids quick, alot of them and a good distraction for the carnefexes to walk in.


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## Apoctis (Feb 14, 2008)

Tryanids my friends this guy plays 5 carnifexs like that should be illegal but still.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

chaos space marines, an army full of bezerkers, spawn and possessed are too hard to face in combat


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Not if you have a daemon army...


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## Riandro (Feb 28, 2008)

bobss said:


> chaos space marines, an army full of bezerkers, spawn and possessed are too hard to face in combat


heh i think we all know ho that is :so_happy:

my hardest has got to be eldar.... ok 2 wraithlords is cheesy but 3? thats just plain wrong....


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> Not if you have a daemon army...


true but im going for more off a defensive army *cough*nurgle*cough*



> heh i think we all know ho that is


lol i wonder who.....



> my hardest has got to be eldar.... ok 2 wraithlords is cheesy but 3? thats just plain wrong....


does jordan have any wraithlords in his eldar army?


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

I have to say Eldar, so you can out shoot me (or equal if I take Tau)? Out close combat? Out manover? Out number (if I use marines)? A least you pansy elves are easy to kill... Oh wait you have unkillable tanks, T8 MC, as many decent saves as a MEQ army, and enough special rules to make you more durable to give me no chance. I've never beat them, though I'm hoping my 'nids may have a chance.


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## nightmare12369 (Dec 21, 2007)

I think that flying circus armys are the worst, because when I use over 12 lascannons shooting at a 3 tanks I want at least 1 to die.


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

tau and eldar. cause they are filthy dishonest xenos, with far to many good units.


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## kungfoomasta (May 8, 2008)

my hardest is eldar... might be cus im not very good at crons but that will change soon and can u post a link to the hammer and anvil strategy plz?


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## TrentLanthier (Apr 28, 2008)

kungfoomasta said:


> my hardest is eldar... might be cus im not very good at crons but that will change soon and can u post a link to the hammer and anvil strategy plz?


Since you don't live near me I feel no worry 

Its here


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## Gaunt22 (May 10, 2008)

i will have to say Space marines using imperial guard


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## kungfoomasta (May 8, 2008)

thank you now the filthy space elves get to die =)


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## shas'o7 (May 17, 2008)

Eldar, they just have too many options.


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

Eldar do have a lot of options but I think it's hard to take advantage of all those options in a balanced list, they usually swing one way or another or come crashing down somewhere in between. I generally don't have much trouble dealing with Eldar.

Having said that, everybody is different. Each individual army list can vary greatly from the next, even if they are of the same race, so every army has different strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I still struggle against Necrons, but I know people who think they are a pushover.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

any other views


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

dark eldar - burt @ogc has just got an evil army!


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## Lucifer 200 (Mar 14, 2008)

I think the hardest is dark eldar because they are so fast


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## Morgal (Sep 26, 2007)

tyranids vs my guard..
so fast so many i can't depend on out mumbering them.


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## Alexander_67 (May 5, 2007)

Hardest army for my Sisters order is Mech Marines especially templars. Lots of Dreads and lots of CC troops are my antithesis. 

Sisters have a massive difficulty in CC. And templars with their 'one of us dies we get closer rule' makes it alot harder to keep the distance. 
Dreads are almost unstoppable once in CC with sororitas. Very little equipment can stop them and both times i've fought mech marines i've got trashed. While all the meltas in my squads make them a danger to dreads if you screw up a 12" melta shot the dread is basiclally in combat with you next turn. 

Paradoxically while on the subject i've got less trouble with khorne than i had before. Now they dont do blood frenzy and are at the mercy of rocking around in rhinos they arent as much of a threat to my army style.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Looks like mass assault is the hardest, what do you think


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

any other views


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## Rindaris (Mar 17, 2008)

Green Knight said:


> I think the hardest is tau to many big guns for me.


I found Tau particularly easy to face. Then again I run a SM gunline and just surgically remove all the opposing big guns quickly.

For me it would be Imperial Guard it seems. Even normal ones. Just to many guys standing back. Orks are easier I guess cause they move forward and eventually get into bolter range, but with Imperials they all just stay back and if I lose my big guns to quickly, I'm hosed.


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## PapaNurgle (Jun 5, 2008)

Orks with shoota boys.

Lots of large squads, effectively fearless.
Great at Close Combat and have a Waagh move to get them there.

Lootas and Big Guns can manage enemy vehicles.

Potential for Nob Biker squads with FNP.

Against a horde assault army the Orks have plenty of shootas to wipe out infantry.

Against Space marines there are too many orks to kill with heavy weapons and you're likely to get only one round of rapid fire before the orks are on you.

Against Tau, there is plenty of skimmer management firepower within the army and Fire Warriors and Orks don't mix well in HtH.

'Crons. Tough fight for the orks, but once they get stuck in, there's not much that any 'cron force can do. Caveat would be the 3x5 destroyer list which puts out enough firepower to seriously attrit any unit.

Eldar are essentially in the same boat as 'crons. They're made to kill marines. How do you like your power weapons against Armor 6? They can be made to kill orks, but then they lose their anti-marinedness (if that's a word).

Demons? So you WANT to drop close to orks to shoot? That's like being the take out pizza driver to Hannibal Lector.

Pods? Same thing.


All in all, I think that the Orks are probably the toughest army to face if for no other reason than they are not MEQ and thus force you to use your heavy weapons to kill infantry. The meta-game will probably shift until the new marine 'dex is out and then people will have a very interesting conundrum - prep for marines, or orks because you really can't do both very well.

One last nod to the rock paper scissors comment. In the end, it depends upon the mission, scenario, and opponent.

Just my .02.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

daemons weapons annoy me , they are bloody annoying, the amount of attacks they can total up, however i enjoy seeing robs face when theres 1s muhahaha


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## Riandro (Feb 28, 2008)

i also enjoy your face when you beloved nurlge is killed :laugh:


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

i would have to say the hardest game i played was against a thousnad sons player. granted that my word bearers or centered closely on cc with the exception of my 8 terminators that i use for heavy firepower and a few of my daemons. this guy soaked up so much damn firepower with just his normal rubric marines that by the time most of my squads got close enough to lay a chainaxe on them they were to few in number to do any real dammage so i got raped. especially by the damn psychic abilities, he killed my dark apostle's whole squad of chosen with ahriman from afar! but my dark apostle killed him in cc before getting torn to pieces with my khorne berserker squad by unrelenting firepower. thousand sons hands down.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Hmmmm...
Toughest army to fight...
It really depends on how yours is built vs how theirs is built. I think the only army which has given me problems consistently is Ultramarines.
I have never lost to the Tau with any of my armies, nor the Tyranids. I have rarely lost to the IG, or Chaos or Space Wolves. Necrons, occasionally... depending on whether they use both the Nightbringer and the other C'tan at the same time, or just one, or neither.


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## skad567 (Jun 4, 2008)

hmm i think it really depends on what army i'm using, but a good mech eldar army isn't typically so fun.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Hardest to beat for me is the nids, they have a great combination of speedy cannon fodder to tie you down and just when you finish em off, the big boys roll up to put the boot in...


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Hardest army that I have faced to date, madly enough, was orcs. A squad of nobz in cc really did it for me. We replayed the same game to make sure it wasn't a fluke with the same result... a lost combat and sweep with the lord getting caught up in it again...but the scarabs did alright :biggrin:

Too many orcs, makes my head hurt...

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## Gore Hunter (Nov 5, 2007)

Its between Orks or Dark eldar 
Orks because their guns are too annoying.
DE because well they're DE!!!!


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

anymore veiw on the hardest army to vs


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## Caledor (Jan 15, 2008)

Big bug armies, although that could just be my force composition. Horde armies don't give me to much trouble since most of my marines are setup as anti-infantry. Haven't had many battles against tanks, but with my inability to hit with lascannons, I imagine I'd have a bit of trouble.


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## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

Plague Marines.

Everything you hate about Necrons- but with one higher effective toughness, and they don't even phase out!

On a more Army-specific level, my Orks don't mind much else.

My Space Marines have a hard time with even a mediocre Tyranid force.

My Guard HATE Tau. HATE HATE HATE.


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## PieMan (May 1, 2008)

to be honest...for me its guardsmen:hang1:
all thosw doctrines make them almost as strong as space marines
i use dark eldar


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## deusvult (Apr 7, 2008)

Nids, fast + good cc= dead Tau.

Marines are the easiest, probably because I play them the most.

Guard are by far my favorite opponent, because between the two armies there is just a ton of firepower on the board.


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## jakkie (Dec 21, 2007)

for me its IG - too many las shots and blast templates for my orkies!
i love playing DE, mailnly because my mate has them, and hes the only person i can massacre in a battle.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

For me, Guard are the worst. My standard Chaos list is pretty heavy on short-range firepower and CC, so they get slaughtered. My favorite opponent is Orks. Orks burn real nice...

-Dirge


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

the toughest army for me are the eldar, damn elves... i'm about 50/50 against them but theres rarely a whole lot of my army left. eldrad is cheese dipped in cheese wrapped with cheese with cheese filling!


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

Iv'e played against just about everything other than Dark Eldar with my Space Marines and I've never won a battle.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

for me it's necrons. I regrettably didn't have any power fists in my army and I was attacked by nightbringer. He alone went through my entire army..... I always carry two fists nowadays


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Cato Sicarius said:


> Iv'e played against just about everything other than Dark Eldar with my Space Marines and I've never won a battle.


Wow I can totally relate to that, except that I didn't every army yet ( and I've played Dark Eldar as well). I usually blame the dice and my bad stragagies. 

Honestly, the 2 armies that I hate playing are 

1) Space Marines: [sarcasticness]Well I wonder why[/sarcasticness]. The one that I hate the most is Space Wolves, man I hate them so much  

2)Tau: With my Assault Blood Angel Army they're not that hard to deal with, but with my Eldar, they get a bit annoying. 

All together I really don't play with alot of people( not counting Vassal)


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I enjoy playing, irrespective of who the opponent is. I might moan and groan if I see blue-skinned space commies across the table from me, because they're obnoxiously hard to beat, but I still have fun with the game as my beloved Lions Rampant are ripped new means of poopin'.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

chaos vince said:


> the toughest army for me are the eldar, damn elves... i'm about 50/50 against them but theres rarely a whole lot of my army left. eldrad is cheese dipped in cheese wrapped with cheese with cheese filling!



Um... you have issues. :taunt:
I've killed Eldrad with a Dark Eldar Dracon.
Abbadon is more monty than Eldrad by far.


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## jakkie (Dec 21, 2007)

chaos vince said:


> eldrad is cheese dipped in cheese wrapped with cheese with cheese filling!


lol
true, too true.


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

eldrad is effective not for what he does in cc but what he lets you do tacticly as well as all those psychic powers and the added bonus of nerfing the enamies psychers. point for point he's just wrong


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

chaos vince said:


> eldrad is effective not for what he does in cc but what he lets you do tacticly as well as all those psychic powers and the added bonus of nerfing the enamies psychers. point for point he's just wrong



Hmm.... for his pts, Eldrad's basically a Farseer with an extra psychic power and his staff.
A maxed-out Farseer would be 12 pts less (that means taking a Singing Spear as well). And I guarantee you can nerf another army's psycher about as easily. Either gets 2 attacks in CC + 1 for charging.
Now, take Kharn...10 pts above a maxed out Khorne Lord on a Juggernaught with Bloodfeeder.
Abbadon... well, I can't figure out anything to compare him to! The closest things in the Eldar codex are Asurmen and Prince Yriel, really... and he technically outclasses them!
But you get what you pay for with Special Characters. Every army has its strong-points, just as they have their weak-points. Saying one CURRENT army is more monty than another, Special Characters included, is little more than whiny excuses. I can say this with fair certainty, as I own five armies (had 6, but rid myself of the Necrons).
It's the way it's always been, at least as far as I can see in my various codices.
Now, taking a 3rd edition Chaos army vs a 4th edition Eldar army, as an example... ya, there'd be severe balance problems. I don't blame people with 3rd edition armies complaining about being a bit out-classed in 4th edition games. Because, for the most part, they are.
But 4th vs. 4th? Adapt, improvise, and overcome.
For instance, if fighting Ulthwe' led by Eldrad... don't rely as heavily on psychers. Or field Ahriman, who's at least as powerful....


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

wasn't whining, just sayin that he's effective. my biggest problem with him isn't the whole psyker thing it's that he lets you redeploy units after set up is done with, an ability i don't think any other character has. that said eldar is my toughest opponent, but i love fighting 'em for exactly that reason. why bother playing an easy game?


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

chaos vince said:


> wasn't whining, just sayin that he's effective. my biggest problem with him isn't the whole psyker thing it's that he lets you redeploy units after set up is done with, an ability i don't think any other character has. that said eldar is my toughest opponent, but i love fighting 'em for exactly that reason. why bother playing an easy game?



So... cheese= effective...
Never heard it that way before, but if that's what it means, cool.


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

heh, well thats the way people use cheese as applied to my chaos so thats the way i was applying it to eldrad. the strategic advantage he convey's is cheese.if a maxed farseer is 12 points less expensive i'd say that being able to redeploy units is worth A LOT more than 12 points.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

chaos vince said:


> heh, well thats the way people use cheese as applied to my chaos so thats the way i was applying it to eldrad. the strategic advantage he convey's is cheese.if a maxed farseer is 12 points more expensive i'd say that being able to redeploy units is worth A LOT more than 12 points.




Nope.
I said the maxed-out Farseer would be 12 pts. less.
*Shrug.*
Guess I just never saw it as being that much of a problem.
But then, I build armies differently than you do, simply because I've had to fight a larger variety of foes than you did 'ere you started having to fight Eldrad relatively recently.


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## shas'o7 (May 17, 2008)

I don't really mind the Eldrad rules, I don't see how a good tactician couldn't counter it.


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

it's not so much that it can't be countered, i never said that, it's just that the point cost of the unit doesn't reflect its abilities


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

carm down lads, Get back to the Question


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

I hyave to disagree and say that points costs concerning IC are chosen very seriously, and I am yet to come across an Independent Character that isnt worth him points. And I hate DE because someone I know (Green Knight) is frighteningly goos with them


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Thanks zondarian, any other views


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## The_Chaplain (Jun 17, 2008)

um, probably nids and necrons.

nids simply have too many bodies for me to kill (lost a tourney because one unit made it to my table quarter in a recon mission-- I killed everything else in a 2k point match >.<) 

necrons-- between their vehicle popping and inability to STAY DEAD, it makes it very hard for a marine.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

I agree with necrons they are a headake, with the monolith which is cheaper than a landraider and is better


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## NorthernTau (Jun 24, 2008)

My least favorite to play against is Tyranids. Nids have far too many models coming at me far too quickly. My second least favorite is Necrons, specifically wraiths which love to phase through terrain to engage my suits that are usually safe jumping out of cover, shooting, and then jumping back behind cover. I have only fought Dark Eldar once, and they decimated me.

My Tau do eat IG for dinner though. I have absolutely annihilated any IG army I've ever come across. I generally have an easy time with marines and I love to kick orcs to the curb too, though a good speed freaks army will make short work of Tau.

Basically anything fast is my worst enemy.


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## biznatcher (Jun 21, 2008)

My least favorite army to play against as both a DE and previous guard played is marines actually, for no other reason than the slight boredom of playing against an army you played your last 3 games against (all different people) and the level of simplicity they seem to have. Seems marine lists are usually quite similar and young children can play them with at least some-what competence. 

I know the question is hardest to vs, and i still agree because marines are usually a chore for me to play. There are some fun, interesting marine players out there, but a good majority are so vanilla it's like work to play the game.


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## NorthernTau (Jun 24, 2008)

Yeah I agree Biz. It seems like 2/3 of tournament armies are marines. in the last one I played against an 8 year old with ultra marines. I destroyed him as his play style was super mechanical and predictable, and it wasn't much fun at all. in fact I just felt bad for the kid, plus i wanted an hour of my life back!


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## shas'o_mi'ros'kai (Jun 16, 2008)

the worst i've ever faced was a highly organised Eldar army. but the most difficult army to vs i would say would also be the eldar. Crafty fast moving things, some coming from behind, from the sky or from a warp hole. one moment you think you have the advantage, the next, they might be all over you. Although they are a highly specialised race, this is what makes them deadly. Speed, specialisations, the right tools and down-right damming psychic ability is sure to screw over an army any time if not taken with caution.


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## LiamMeowFace (Jan 18, 2009)

In my experiances wit horks eldar and a hell of alot of chaos i havnt found anything extremly hard exept my brothers space wolves


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## Thanatos (Mar 23, 2009)

well where do i start lol

i would definately say that a friend of mines Eldar army is pretty difficult to beat- yes he goes with Eldrad and Wraithlord. To make things worse he has just discovered that wraithguard are pretty effective against my necron army 
they are way to fast and good at CC for me to beat with necrons and any weapon that can destroy a monolith is to strong! that means railguns as well (curse u tau!)
i just think that for pretty much the only psychic army, some of their powers can be alittle hectic or even overpowered at times


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

While I've only played against three other races, I'd have to say the hardest would be either any Ork army with Ghazghkull Thraka in it, or a Tyranid army with more than one Carnifex.


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## BeastsofWar (Apr 1, 2009)

Necrons when im playing my SM, Nids when im playing my IG. 
Necrons simply because they take the rule book and shove it up my arse, they are the only army i get genuinely angry against, then i loose focus and before you know it theres a monolith on my head!
Nids, well they are fast. the new guard are good at laying down fire but its still not that effective against a swarm, not to mention my scatter dice despise me!

BoW- John


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## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

Necrons, hard to kill the first time hard to kill the second once they res


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Orks

*Post length rage*


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

As always, the hardest list to play against is your own...My Eldar would be mighty ineffective against themselves, it would come down to generalship, or luck. Only Ork players want to face a mirror match...


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