# Best way to deal with upgraded eldar tanks



## CATzeentch (Dec 25, 2007)

So, i always get screwed by the damn eldar tanks and rolling the 2D6 and picking the lowest on the glance chart. So i would like to know what the best weapon to deal with skimmers is. 
Thanks ahead of time for your help, it is much appreciated.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

CATzeentch said:


> So, i always get screwed by the damn eldar tanks and rolling the 2D6 and picking the lowest on the glance chart. So i would like to know what the best weapon to deal with skimmers is.
> Thanks ahead of time for your help, it is much appreciated.


virus bombs. Pull out and nuke them from orbit. it's the only way to be sure.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Lots and lots of str7-8 shots. If you could get lots of str 9 or 10 shots that'd be even better but guns of that strength don't usually fire more than 1 shot and/or are pricey. Eldar vehicles only ever get glanced usually so railgun shots, lasgun shots, and the like are generally too pricey for a roll 2 take lowest glancing hit. Eldar vehicles have lower armor though, so take advantage of that with lots of weaker weaponry that comes cheaper and fires more shots. I've taken em down reliably with sniperfexes (multiple str 10 shots that glance anyway are great) and nid warriors with venom cannons (multiple str 7 shots). Ork lootas ought to be able to absolutely ruin their day. Autocannons do a fairly good job as well, but can be tough to get in the numbers appropriate for skimmer hunting. Chaos doesn't really have a good way to take prolific numbers of str 7/8 weaponry, however, so are at a disadvantage here. Lots of lascannons is basically the only option for them, and those are pricey. It's 215 for a minimum squad of havocs with 4 lascannon shots compared to 14 lootas with an average of 28 str 7 shots for the same price.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

IG weapons platoon will have no problem taking down the tanks. 9 lascannon shots, or 18 autocannon shots might do it. So would 9 missile launchers. Or any combo of these.


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

lets not forget they have all the upgrades 

that amount of concentration of fire on something that costs around 220 with upgrades and weapons


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Assault cannons work nicely here. 4 shots each with rending on damage rolls. You can equip them on Landspeeder tornadoes, Dreads, and Terminators. Each are cheaper alternatives to Heavy weapon choices.:victory:


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

havent seen many land speeders on a board lately


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

The trick for dealing with skimmers, no matter how they're loaded out, and no matter which race they belong to, is thinking of them in terms of dealing with aircraft. You're not likely to be able to score a direct hit with any given shot, so you need a high volume of fire to get them. In the case of the Eldar and Tau, their front and side facings are proof against the majority of high-volume weapons like heavy bolters. As Damned Fist said, assault cannons work wonders here. Strength 6 is enough to glance their armour as it stands, and the rending hits will help out a fair bit too. There are enough dice being thrown at them that one will eventually go through.

Another alternative, which is best suited to Space Wolf players, but can be "faked" by everyone else, is to have a unit (read: Wolf Scouts) deploy behind enemy lines and unload bolt pistols and a meltagun in its rear armor. Despite being Fast vehicles, in my experience, grav tanks tend to hang out in the back lines unless they have cargo to drop off. If you don't have some sneaky Viking-Astartes bastards available, deep striking is your next best option, albeit it's a fair bit more risky since you scatter. 

You can alleviate the problem of scattering with a bike squadron or the like which can rapidly get into the backfield with a teleport homer, but it'll be pretty obvious what you're up to with that, so they'll take a lot of fire. Or they'll just move the skimmer away.


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## Gore Hunter (Nov 5, 2007)

I tend to stick a tank with a a load of lascannons or autocannons and mount a few in the squads aswell an Obliterator is generally effective aswell. The whole Idea is to try and try and try again till you've destroyed it.


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

6 terminators 2 assault cannons, tank hunters, deepstriking 

in 2 turns thats a dead falcon

martin


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Tank hunters does make a huge difference on terminators vs eldar skimmers. You get twice as many glancing hits with your assault cannons on front/side, and twice as many with your stormbolters in the rear if you can get there.

It makes a really big difference whether you are shooting at a transport or a combat vehicle (falcons are both of these of course). With a combat vehicle like a fire prism or hammerhead your main priority is stopping it from shooting, which is actually quite easy to do. It's often worth it to stop firing after you get a shaken result and fire other weapons elsewhere, unless the tank is holding an objective or something.

A transport is a different issue. A falcon with harlies in it that has just gone 24" into your lines is a nightmare because there is no reliable way to kill it or slow down the passengers. There is one trick you might be able to do though: Surround the tank so that nobody can get out, then shoot it and get your glancing hit so it can't shoot. In its next turn the passengers can't get out where the tank is, so the tank has to move, so they won't be able to assault after they get out. Also, the tank can't shoot if you glance it. This at least reduces the danger to you somewhat, but it requires a speedy unit of some kind to achieve. As a bonus, if you happen to kill the tank the guys inside will die, and if it gets immobilised they can never get out so long as you keep someone at the door.


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

martin4696 said:


> 6 terminators 2 assault cannons, tank hunters, deepstriking
> 
> in 2 turns thats a dead falcon
> 
> martin


not unless those termis die 

i falcon can move 24 inches you know 

then i will just send in my pheonix lords after your termis..hey i might just send karandras

or if im brave my hq warlocks + farseer with all there abilitys and wounding on on 2s always

1 attack
1 for cc weapon
1 for charging
x10

Doom, re roll to wound
Fortune, re roll saves
conceal +5 cover save on top of +4 invunrable
embolden reroll failed leadership
enchance +1 initiative +1 ws

send a banshee or jain zar "IC" attached to squad in there doing a warshout, take a moral test and if you fail you get ws 1

+ counter attack rule

termis say bye bye

not to mention this squad still gets fleet of foot


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## dakari-mane (Mar 9, 2007)

martin4696 said:


> 6 terminators 2 assault cannons, tank hunters, deepstriking
> 
> in 2 turns thats a dead falcon
> 
> martin


Pretty sure thats not right. Here you go:
Number of shots per turn divided by the chance to hit= hits
8/3*2=5.333333333
Number of hits per turn divided by the chance of getting an effect
5.333333333/3=1.777777778
Number of effects per turn divided by the chance of destroying the Holo-tank
1.777777778/9=0.197530864
a single turn divided by the number of holo-tanks killed per turn equals the number of turns to destroy a single tank
1/0.197530864=5.0625
So thats 5 turns k:


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

no!!

you have 

8 shots hitting on 3s then needing 3s again then 2ds
8 shots hitting on 3s then needing 5s then 2ds 

then the same again
then 15 combat str9 attacks (or str8 if its not TH) 
3 combat str5 attacks (or str4 if its not TH)

thats alot less than 5 turns or im very lucky in all of my games as this is what i do lol


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Mad King George said:


> not unless those termis die
> 
> i falcon can move 24 inches you know
> 
> ...


Not helpful really. We are all aware that units exist that are capable of killing terminators and that Eldar have access to several of them. However, you will note that he is talking about deep striking these termies. You aren't going to kill him before he shoots, because he isn't there yet.

So, you are proposing to leave Karandras, a warlock squad and/or a units of Banshees with Jain Zar waiting around in your deployment zone waiting to see if terminators deep strike within their charge range? You may be waiting a long time. While you are waiting, you will have the opportunity to see the effect of terminators firing assault cannons at banshees.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

basically get lucky


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

Mad King George said:


> not unless those termis die
> 
> i falcon can move 24 inches you know
> 
> ...


dude the question wasnt wasnt how to kill this eldar Army, it was how to kill eldar skimmers with S**t loads of upgrades and that is how

its not like thats it as thats a hell of alot of points so im going to have 4 more units of those 2 librarains and 3 drop pod dreads so.........


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

thanks btw but



Someguy said:


> into your lines is a nightmare because there is no reliable way to kill it or slow down the passengers.There is one trick you might be able to do though: Surround the tank so that nobody can get out, then shoot it and get your glancing hit so it can't shoot. In its next turn the passengers can't get out where the tank is, so the tank has to move, so they won't be able to assault after they get out. Also, the tank can't shoot if you glance it. This at least reduces the danger to you somewhat, but it requires a speedy unit of some kind to achieve. As a bonus, if you happen to kill the tank the guys inside will die, and if it gets immobilised they can never get out so long as you keep someone at the door.


i hightly recomed this as well, speeders or jump infantry are very good for this.


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

Someguy said:


> Not helpful really. We are all aware that units exist that are capable of killing terminators and that Eldar have access to several of them. However, you will note that he is talking about deep striking these termies. You aren't going to kill him before he shoots, because he isn't there yet.
> 
> So, you are proposing to leave Karandras, a warlock squad and/or a units of Banshees with Jain Zar waiting around in your deployment zone waiting to see if terminators deep strike within their charge range? You may be waiting a long time. While you are waiting, you will have the opportunity to see the effect of terminators firing assault cannons at banshees.


true

but since

my hq choice is pretty much invulnrable and a IC cant be targeted +4 saves with rerolls then a +5 cover save with rerolls seems pretty safe to sit back and relax

not to mention deep strike can scatter, they can move so they can only move 6

easy way to do this.. give your falcon vectored engines deploy it in difficult terrain... drop pods cant land there and always have to be on the outside

then assaulting through diffcult terrain have to be in contact with base right ?

not forgettign warp spiders of course... though i need all ive mentioned ill be getting it soon as im reading my codexs again seeing peoples tactics on here and seeing why i should get them


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

martin4696 said:


> dude the question wasnt wasnt how to kill this eldar Army, it was how to kill eldar skimmers with S**t loads of upgrades and that is how
> 
> its not like thats it as thats a hell of alot of points so im going to have 4 more units of those 2 librarains and 3 drop pod dreads so.........


i know im just saying how i might counter it, just remember to know what your opponent can do.

i collect space marines and eldar.

so if i see that command squad im kinda scared

for instance

my 3 new falcons

bright lance vs tanks
missile launcher vs hordes
scatter laser vs hordes
stacannon vs hordes


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

Mad King George said:


> my hq choice is pretty much invulnrable and a IC cant be targeted +4 saves with rerolls then a +5 cover save with rerolls


its not warhammer you have normal save or cover saze not both.



> drop pods cant land there and always have to be on the outside


actauly no they can go in to difficult tarrain



> then assaulting through diffcult terrain have to be in contact with base right ?


 yes why??

btw why are you confusing the whole post, if you want to start you own go for it with beat this army?? 

thanks
martin


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Mad King George said:


> my hq choice is pretty much invulnrable and a IC cant be targeted +4 saves with rerolls then a +5 cover save with rerolls seems pretty safe to sit back and relax


This is nonsense. A squad of warlocks isn't an independent character, it's a squad. The farseer is an IC but it doesn't stop people shooting the squad he is in. Anyone can shoot at it using the normal rules for targetting squads, though they may have to take a LD check if something else is closer.

No, you don't get an invulnerable save and a cover save. Only one of the above.

People have been using Seer councils for years and they were effective. Nowadays they aren't really cost-effective and can be quite easily taken down if you play an army like marines and have access to things like psychic hoods and... terminators with assault cannons.



Mad King George said:


> not to mention deep strike can scatter, they can move so they can only move 6


This is true. Deep strike scatters and terminators can move only 6".



Mad King George said:


> easy way to do this.. give your falcon vectored engines deploy it in difficult terrain... drop pods cant land there and always have to be on the outside
> 
> then assaulting through diffcult terrain have to be in contact with base right ?


Drop pods can land in difficult terrain. Not that they need to for the terminators to shoot the back of your tank, or assault it in future turns. In fact I don't know why we're even talking about drop pods, since the terminators probably aren't using one.

Yes, they have to be in contact with your tank to assault it. They can't assault anyway on the turn they deep strike, but after that they will be able to if you are still there. I would expect that the falcon would move away and never get charged unless it was immobilised, but there we are.



Mad King George said:


> not forgettign warp spiders of course... though i need all ive mentioned ill be getting it soon as im reading my codexs again seeing peoples tactics on here and seeing why i should get them


Warp spiders against terminators? Ok.

Personally I'd just have my termies on the ground shooting away happily, not deep strike. I don't really think it's viable to try and kill a falcon so I don't waste time doing it. Instead, I'd be having my termies mow down the highly expensive infantry that you, but very few other people, seem to want to use.


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

Someguy said:


> This is nonsense. A squad of warlocks isn't an independent character, it's a squad. The farseer is an IC but it doesn't stop people shooting the squad he is in. Anyone can shoot at it using the normal rules for targetting squads, though they may have to take a LD check if something else is closer.
> 
> No, you don't get an invulnerable save and a cover save. Only one of the above.
> 
> ...


1

i was talking about jain zar joing the warlock squad

2 

drop pods cant land in difficult terrain i have codex in front of me here

3

a farseer with warlocks isnt really that exspensive ir depends on how many you have

25 points a warlock is cheap i think considering the cost of a farseer


4 if people have instant kill weapons that ignore invulrable, dont they have the cover save ?


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

> 2 drop pods cant land in difficult terrain i have codex in front of me here


erm YES they can IMPOSSIBLE NO difficult YES i have mine in frount of me



> 3 a farseer with warlocks isnt really that exspensive ir depends on how many you have
> 
> 25 points a warlock is cheap i think considering the cost of a farseer


compared to old codex were you could have 2-5 farseers and unlimited warlock, better farseers (t4 not IC) and alot cheaper warlocks.



> 4 if people have instant kill weapons that ignore invulrable, dont they have the cover save ?


 what does this instant kills and ignors invuns??


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

some weapons ignore invulrables i believe atleats war gear invulrbales, this means they still have a cover save no?

whats impassible and difficult terrain differences


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

im not to sure about the ingnoring invuns but yer unless it says ingnores cover like a flamer you would get a cove save.

and IMPOSSIBLE tarrain you cant go into at all unless you have wargear (i think stuff like eldar pathfinders and flesh hooks have this specail rule)

DIFFICULT tarrain you take a test for on 2d6


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

so would a flacon hide in impassible terrain


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

no as it cant go into impossable tarrain it can hide behind


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

but its a skimmer ;-(


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

a falcon can fly above impassable terrain. It can fly over anything it wants to. However, that means that it doesn't receive any protection from the cover it is flying over, as it is not in it, but above it.

You can use impassable terrain to protect a skimmer from assaults, just not shooting.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Mad King George said:


> 1
> 
> i was talking about jain zar joing the warlock squad


What difference does it make? Fine, have Jain Zar instead of a Farseer. I can still shoot at the squad, only now they don't have fortune from the Farseer. ICs do not confer IC status to squads they join. *OBVIOUSLY*



Mad King George said:


> 2
> 
> drop pods cant land in difficult terrain i have codex in front of me here


Wrong.


Mad King George said:


> a farseer with warlocks isnt really that exspensive ir depends on how many you have
> 3
> 
> 25 points a warlock is cheap i think considering the cost of a farseer


Are you having a farseer or not? A squad with Jain Zar, a Farseer and a few warlocks is very expensive. Not much under 400 points even for quite a small unit.


Mad King George said:


> 4 if people have instant kill weapons that ignore invulrable, dont they have the cover save ?


Yes, sort of.

There is no such thing as an "Instant kill weapon" (maybe you mean wraithcannons or "D" weapons in apocalypse?) but weapons do exist that ignore invulnerable saves. You would get a cover save against a psycannon for example, but not against incinerators or destroyer weapons.


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

Someguy said:


> What difference does it make? Fine, have Jain Zar instead of a Farseer. I can still shoot at the squad, only now they don't have fortune from the Farseer. ICs do not confer IC status to squads they join. *OBVIOUSLY*
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> ...




i would have jain zar as a independent character

as a independent character join a warlock squad with farseer she cannont be targeted only the squad can with those saves it will be fine.

but with a warlock fasreer squad with a jain zar independently joined with them that squad is kinda tough to kill and mean in combat.. mount in a wave serpant.... ouch


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## Dave (Jan 18, 2008)

As an eldar player who rarely leaves home without at least a pair of tanks I would have to say that the most effective thing against them is a squad of land speeders with assault cannons. Anything else tends to not actually be able to catch them if you've got any forsight at all. The only exception is deepstriking units, but unless they get lucky they're probably not going to do any more than shake the tank, and then I generally have star engines equipped so I just haul ass 36" away and I'm probably out of range or at least line of sight. I also make sure that there is no way that anyone is going to be able to hit my rear armour. Since they can shoot while moving there's no reason you can't end the turn with your back pressed up against something so only 12's are showing. At least with land speeders you're actually able to make chase. Plus I don't know that deep striking termies near a tank is a good idea if they don't manage to deal any damage, cause then they're as good as dead.


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

wow lots of eldar players here ..im learning alot


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## CATzeentch (Dec 25, 2007)

Thanks to everyone who responded, but I have chaos and so am not allowed to have jesus guns:angry:
Also the "big, bad farseer" squad will still just die against bolters, because remeber, they only have a 4+ at the end of the day.
However, the person i most often deal with has dire avengers in the falcons, so just shaking it isn't good enough. 

And as i final comment, let me rephrase the question a little...
What is the best way to deal against upgraded eldar tanks with chaos?


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Despite the various cries of "havocs suck," I'd put my trust in them. Particularly now that you can pack four special weapons into a squad larger than ten, and just use 'em as a sort of mobile heavy tactical squad. Four meltaguns in a twelve-man unit could do the trick. If your opponent is trying to deliver Dire Avengers, then he's going to bring those Falcons in range of the meltaguns. Keep in mind that a Falcon has a transport capacity of six, and if you can't cause six wounds on an Eldar Squad with bolters, something's wrong. You might not kill all six of 'em, but you can most likely make the Exarch take an armour save, and if the Exarch dies, the squad is suddenly a lot less effective. I'd be more concerned if he were dumping squads of Fire Dragons off in the Falcons, I think. 

Chaos has access to an excellent all-rounder weapon, and since September when my Black Legionnaires retired to the shelf in protest against the new Codex, I've greatly missed having autocannons. Autocannons are the bane of light vehicles, and grav tanks fall under that catagory. You put out enough shots with a havoc squad with four of 'em that you'd be surprised how much you're able to shred. I used four with Tank Hunters with the old codex, which made them twice as effective as four missile launchers in every sense, but that's obviously no longer an option. S7 Heavy 2 is still an excellent way to deal with units of the Armour 12 persuasion-- you do hit on 3's and have two shots, after all. Slightly better chance of doing something to it than a single krak missile, actually. 

If you take Terminators, be sure you're packing a reaper cannon in the squad. Terminators with ranged weapons are, despite what people say, excellent all-rounders since they can move and fire with their weapons without any decrease in effectiveness. I always have used Terminators as a stop-gap for anything my army can't immediately handle, whether they be of the Loyalist or Traitor persuasion.


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## CATzeentch (Dec 25, 2007)

so maybe a 12 man havoc squad with 4 autocannons and an aspiring champ with powerfist(or maybe not) is 260, and with an icon, probably glory, that is 270.

Thank you SoH


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I'd leave the fist at home, and probably just leave 'em at 10-strong. A static unit like that shouldn't be getting into close combat ,and even if they do, they still have bolt pistols and close combat weapons. Just give someone the Icon of Chaos Glory, and you should be set. No need for the Champion, either, unless you're worried about target priority tests... and at Leadership 9, it really shouldn't be much of an issue. I'd put the two extra guys that would've comprised the 12-man squad into a Troops choice that advances, as well as the Aspiring Champion with the fist-- you want him in a unit that you know will (and want to!) get stuck in.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

That is good advice. Autocannons are great. It's really annoying that oblitorators can't have them any more.

If all he's doing is delivering 6 dire avengers then you might be better off dealing with them after they deploy (if they even do) and aiming to shake the vehicle rather than kill it. There's no point surrounding a falcon with dire avengers in, since they aren't interested in assaulting anyway.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

That's not clear. Dire Avengers are all-rounders, and an Exarch can be a tough proposition in close combat, even at S3. The shimmershield/power glaive combination is problematic just because they shrug off your powered attacks, and a diresword does bad things to squad leaders. A single Dire Avenger may not be much of a threat, but the Exarchs can pull down three times their points in combat most of the time. 

If you can stick something by the back hatch when you blow it up, that's not a bad idea-- I'd forgotten that you could trap models inside the destroyed vehicle, and Eldar transports have only one access point.


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

ow for chaos i would go pure obliterators and choosen with 5 plasmaguns in each unit lol

autocannons will be your firend but you do need 5+s so not the best

ow and deepstriken units of 3 termiantors with combi plamsaguns back armour its great again


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

The Son of Horus said:


> That's not clear. Dire Avengers are all-rounders, and an Exarch can be a tough proposition in close combat, even at S3. The shimmershield/power glaive combination is problematic just because they shrug off your powered attacks, and a diresword does bad things to squad leaders. A single Dire Avenger may not be much of a threat, but the Exarchs can pull down three times their points in combat most of the time.
> 
> If you can stick something by the back hatch when you blow it up, that's not a bad idea-- I'd forgotten that you could trap models inside the destroyed vehicle, and Eldar transports have only one access point.


yeah im thinking of getting several small squads of dire avengers with exarches and charge a nasty cc squad

but ill make my exarches take defend....;-)

4 squads of dire avengers + 4 exarches using defend

- 4 attacks for opponents squad in combat with them


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## CATzeentch (Dec 25, 2007)

well, i might have mistaken the flacons for wave serpants.
Let me tell you what is in his list...
2 farseers with doom and guide and runes of warding(on jetbikes)
2 fireprisms
3 waveserpants w/brightlances
30 dire avengers w/ bladestorm


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

you have to kill those waveseprants

if he also has shimmer shield then 3 units of dires on you in cc ==== horror


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

calculations say that it takes precisely 25 lascannon shots to deal with a single falcon or fire prism. 50 to destroy it. but only if you preform statistically average.

25*.6(to hit) *.6(to wound 12 armor) = 18 glances
statistically 1 in 9 shots will immobilize, and 1 in 18 will kill it.


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

Engelus said:


> calculations say that it takes precisely 25 lascannon shots to deal with a single falcon or fire prism. 50 to destroy it. but only if you preform statistically average.
> 
> 25*.6(to hit) *.6(to wound 12 armor) = 18 glances
> statistically 1 in 9 shots will immobilize, and 1 in 18 will kill it.



i thought falcons can make forced landings ?


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## CATzeentch (Dec 25, 2007)

At least 5th ed will tone down those damn skimmers...


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

A fire prism is much less of a problem than a falcon. You don't need to kill it, only take out its gun.

So hit it only until it is shaken each turn. If you get lucky and get a wep destroyed result try not to shoot at it any more at all.

Wave serpents can be killed. They can't have holofields so it isn't too difficult. The best thing is tho spam autocannon fire at them until they go down, which can happen quite soon. On average it takes 9 autocannon hits to stop a wave serpent or 18 to kill it. Rapid fire plasma is also pretty cool for this if it has come close.


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## dakari-mane (Mar 9, 2007)

CATzeentch said:


> At least 5th ed will tone down those damn skimmers...


Y'see its this kind of comment that fucks me off. There is nothing wrong with skimmers.
There is something wrong with a fast skimming tank that has 2D6 pick the lowest defence & can never be stopped from moving. 
The issue is the holo-skimmer NOT skimmers in general (as any one that has faced Tau skimmers can tell you as they die easy!)


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I agree with that actually. It seems like quite often if GW has a unit that is performing too well they rewrite the core rules instead of fixing the unit. Seems insane really.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

I always use two dev squads when fighting my pointy-headed friends. Lascannon spam all the way! Plus a Pred, I can take down an average of 1.7 Holo Tanks a turn. Basically? Cram as MANY heavy weapons into your list as possible. Go for cheese. Eldar players are wily and don't exactly march at you like Nids' or Orks. Gotta blow their fancy tanks outta the sky, then Deep Strike assault termies to squish them.....Huzzah!

-Dirge


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## Tiberius (Dec 15, 2007)

After reading through this I can't believe that has not been suggested the 1 thing most armies have available to them, Ordenance Weapons. Guess weapons play hell on sneaky skimmer armies. It does help that you can guess well, in my case being a carpenters apprentice in my youth, I can tell you any distance on the board with in 1/2 inch. I have ruined my Eldar opponents day with Mortar Squads, Demolisher Cannons, even Battle Cannons. Let me say Eldar die in big heaps when exposed and walking. A worst case is you miss the target, but chances are that shot will find something else.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

get them in your army and then they are someone elses problem


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## CATzeentch (Dec 25, 2007)

I like tiberius' idea
However the only real ordanace is a vindicator and i'm a littlre leanient on using it as it would be a very large target.


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## Tiberius (Dec 15, 2007)

Remember cover is beneficial for keeping things like a Vindicator around. Plus don't forget you have your own upgrades to use.


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

my 3 falcons survived 4 monoliths and everything else being shot at it today only one got a 1 on a glance 

my swooping hawks fire dragons fugen and avatar were going around killing everything


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

Tiberius said:


> After reading through this I can't believe that has not been suggested the 1 thing most armies have available to them, Ordenance Weapons. Guess weapons play hell on sneaky skimmer armies. It does help that you can guess well, in my case being a carpenters apprentice in my youth, I can tell you any distance on the board with in 1/2 inch. I have ruined my Eldar opponents day with Mortar Squads, Demolisher Cannons, even Battle Cannons. Let me say Eldar die in big heaps when exposed and walking. A worst case is you miss the target, but chances are that shot will find something else.



cloud strike apocalypse 3 falcons become flyers :fuck:


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## Xenophon (Jan 20, 2008)

Mad King, how are your grav tank usually destroyed?


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## Nightbringer416 (Feb 16, 2008)

Mad King George said:


> not unless those termis die
> 
> i falcon can move 24 inches you know
> 
> ...


wait. you can move 24 and assault the same turn.


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## forgotten hero (Nov 23, 2007)

Right, as an Eldar player, the things that scare me the most: 

In no perticular order apart from No.1! 

no.1 J-S-J Tau battle suits with Missile Pods + Plasma Guns 

2. Lascannons 
3. Venom Cannons (Carnifex) 
4. Missile launchers 
5. Assault cannons 
6. Auto cannons 
7. Plasma guns 
8. Meltaguns (Deep striking anyways) 
9. Plasma cannons (looks desperate if your shooting with these at tanks...) 
10. Scatter lasers 

You may notice no Domilisher cannons or ordernance, tbh, it doesn't bother me if your shooting me with them, because there is such a high chance of it not even hitting me... 

As for tactics... 

play against skimmers, and see how you do, start with static gun line and work from there I guess. (dev squads with say 2 static missile launcher + plasma tactical squads if a good starting place) As for other tactics, most have been mentioned before. 

-Rob


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

forgotten hero said:


> Right, as an Eldar player, the things that scare me the most:
> 
> In no perticular order apart from No.1!
> 
> ...


I'm sure if you played some orky foes that lootas would make it into that list :grin:

Even a smallish squad of 9 gets on average 6 autocannon hits. Sometimes they get crazy amounts. Sometimes not so much. Str 7 is really the profile for killing eldar skimmers because you tend to get lots of shots. Tau skimmers are best killed by flanking them and going for the side armor.


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## forgotten hero (Nov 23, 2007)

They are something to be feared, but I dont play them often, when I do, killer cans and dreads are top of the 'to kill first' list... 

-Rob


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## Absolute035 (Jan 13, 2008)

Eldar tanks - volume of attacks. Though anybody will tell you that (depending on mission type) killing them isn't necessary, as if they are constantly shaken, they'll have a hard time earning back their 200 points.

BTW I played 40K for my 4th or so game a couple days ago and my HF/SS Prism died the first time it was shot at and the rolls weren't particularly luck (Lascannon, hits on 3s, glances on 3s, rolled 6/5, crashed & burned). 
My serpent was hit and immobilized on turn 2 by a seeker missile. 

Idk what the complaints are about, I suppose it gets annoying if you keep getting holofield "shaken" results after sinking firepower into an Eldar tank, but then you should realize that's exactly what the Eldar player wants you to do... waste your shots. IMO the vehicles hardiness is greatly overstated because it neglects the fact that most of the "alive" vehicles are unable to move/shoot and thus a wasted pile of points.


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## wetware (Dec 8, 2007)

It's not all about earning VPs back. With something like a HF Falcon VP denial is a viable strategy as well. Imagine you've got three of them all tricked out. That's around 700 VP that your opponent is not likely going to get and they're likely to get a good sized chunk of that back. Secondly, there's their role as a nigh-invulnerable troop transport. Harliequins can march through someone's army while only being shot at by their next victim.

If you'd like to see why you hear complaints, check out the Tau Broken thread which I am too lazy to link you to. I did the math there.


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## Dobber (Feb 8, 2008)

Venerable dread nought with cc weapon and multi melta + a drop pod. This is one awesome package if you get it from forge world. Drop pod it next to a tank (good thing here is that the dread cant be damaged by dropping accidentally on the tank it just miove s to within 1" of the tank. Out it comes with an armour destroying blast. the n next turn it charges, 4 str10 power weapon atts I think. This is sure to wipe out almost any tank.


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## forgotten hero (Nov 23, 2007)

hmm, 1 multi-melta shot is not gonna down a Falcon, well unless your lucky, it may shake it, in a competent players hands it will just move at least 24" away, so its out of range, or hide it. 

-Rob


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## forgotten hero (Nov 23, 2007)

For me, the stuff I really fear (weapons listed above...) Tactics wise are stuff dropping out the sky behind my tanks, seperating and isolating them, so they cannot bring there full arsenal to bear on your isolated units. 

Multiples, Dev squads, Havocs, Drop guard with 3 plasma guns... you no what I mean.

Single high strength shots don't tend to hurt too bad, shaken at best, and 1's are rolled every now and again... its why a J-S-J Tau battlesuit army pretty much owned me at a tourny I went to almost a year ago. 

Nasty nasty combo of multiple plasma and missle fire did the damage on the broadside squad or rail heads... it was the 8 or so battle suits, although I no now how to deal with that type of army, (Rush them, with 2 Falcons on a Jetbike squad + character(s))

Not sure why I'm helping out the enemy.. 

-Rob

*Crap double post, thought I was editing my last post! sorry! .


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