# Help with Store Managers Necrons



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

What would you guys suggest I take against the local store managers Necrons?

I know he's using a monolith, 6 heavy destroyers and a destroyer lord. The rest i'm unsure of - probably a few destroyers and a horde of warriors.

I'm using Blood Angels for the tournament.

The models I have are 

3 6 Man Las/plas Squads
5 landspeeder tornadoes
a 3 las pred
2 baal preds (could rob a las turret or two)
a furioso (with or without a pod - again this could be borrowed)
8 Scouts - missle launcher/powerfist
8 assault marines - fist/2 plasma pistols
chaplain and death company

We're only playing on 4x4 tables so the question is - do I go all out assault, throw the scouts, dc and ass marines forward and hope for the best or go all out shooting, drop the ass marines and load up on las preds, speeders and las/plas tactical marines?

Whats the best course of action with a singular 'lith? Ignore it and go for Phase Out or bring it down at all costs?

help :?

If I beat this guys i'll probably win the tourney since Jigplums got a job at the other local GW


----------



## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Always take out the Lith. It can stop you from phasing him out with it WBB rerolls, IIRC.

It also has some nasty guns. 

I'd say your first priority would be to get into CC ASAP, they dont get WBB roles for power weapon attack, IIRC. 

AS you are doing this, devote any purely heavy support units (such as the preds) to taking out his lith. 

Watch out for those heavy destroyers though, they can lay down a lot of withering fire.


----------



## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

The Manager will do one of three things with his Monolith. Use it to support his main advance, in which case you need to kill it immediately, deep strike it, in which case you must kill it immediately, or use it by itself, in which case it's a waste of points and you can ignore it.

You want to get into close combat with as many power weapons and Ld-lowering items as possible, since when you overrun Necrons they don't get WBB.

That Dreadnought need to be in combat as fast (preferably faster) than physically possible, or they will die. Expect him to do a hell of a lot to kill it.

You need to take out any Destroyers he has long before they can take out your Predators, since they're your best shot at dealing with his tougher Necrons.


----------



## TYRANIDS (Dec 31, 2006)

well focus on getting in cc with his warriors as the faster they die the faster he phases out 

if he is deep striking it he will begin pouring loads of shots at you but if this happens and most of your army is ahead of it continue forward and ignore it as it only move 6" a turn so u out run it and gett in cc faster 

if you wanted you could take a predator with lascannons to help out the killing although his destroyers will make it a target priority so take a squad of guys with lascannons as it will be harder to kill

also if you wanted you could aim to take out his lord and surrounding men(usually warriors maybe immortals or pariahs) and if you over run them in cc he has a less of a chance of being within 6" of another same type model to come bak(unless he has tombspiders=12")


----------



## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Actually, I said overrunning because if that happens they can't get back up regardless of any other factors.


----------



## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

I have found that the only way to beat them is to phase them out.

That means manouvering to knock as many of them on thier arse at one time as possible. Bear in mind throughout thier phase out points.

If you have las-cannons try for the monolith but not if you can see destroyers instead. The monoliths main value is giving extra WBB rolls.

Later in the game remember that one lord or destroyer contribures exactly the same towards phasing out as a single warrior. I find the more special stuff he squeezes in the easier he will be to beat.


----------



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Thanks guys. Close combat should be a problem on a four foot table. I think I should be in on turn two (no escalation). If he hides his warriors at the back the lith will go down pretty quickly to Str 9 rerolled powerfist attacks on the assault.

The d6 str 5's off the lith might be a problem on the speeders so I'll try to keep them wide on the flanks. Should be fun :lol: 

I handled a 3 lith army at the finals but the Heavy Destroyers will make it a far more competitive game imo.


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

strength nine power fists?? what was the units original strength??


----------



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

8 - but come to think of it do you get furious against a monolith? I know they stop rending etc...


----------



## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

> 8 - but come to think of it do you get furious against a monolith? I know they stop rending etc...


Furious charge Is fine, to be honest your DC with fists are probably your best bet of taking out the lith.
On a small board combat Is key but getting rid of the Monolith should be a priority otherwise he'll be whipping his squads out and rapid firing you to death. I'd go with a twin assault with your DC and assault marines with plenty of LC's from preds and tac squads to help out with destroyers and the monolith.


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

if your units strngth was str 8 then it goes up to 10, powerfists double your strength up. if this causes it to go above 10 then it stops at 10. BUT against a monolith you dont use the augmented strength, so you use strength 8 which is a 6 to glance and thats it.


----------



## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

No, it's strength nine. Multiplication modifiers are alwasy applied before addition-subtraction modifiers unless explicitly stated differently.


----------



## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Yeah its S9 you always for powerfists mutliply your BASE S by 2, and you still get furious charge bonus against the lith, only cancels out extra D6 rolls, not S bonuses
So chainfist and power fist alike would get 1 D6 at S9 furious charging against a lith


----------



## Hudge (Dec 24, 2006)

Be cautious when attacking monoliths, do *NOT* focus all of your firepower on it.


----------



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

I'm so tempted to take a 3 Demolisher Lascannon Guard list with a few rough riders in support.

We're allowed two army lists throughout the tournament of which i've only used one allocation :mrgreen: 

Thanks for the info on the fists.


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

np dude, it would be kinda embarassing getting a unit w powerfists into CC with it and find out they cant do shite.


----------



## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Np at all Jez anything we can do to help


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

uberschveinen said:


> No, it's strength nine. Multiplication modifiers are alwasy applied before addition-subtraction modifiers unless explicitly stated differently.


sorry i dont know about subtraction/addition modifiers, explain please


----------



## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

What he means is that you add any pluses to strength After doubling for the powerfist...

STR 4 x2 + 1 =9

NOT!

STR 4 + 1 x2 =10


----------



## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

Jezlad said:


> I'm so tempted to take a 3 Demolisher Lascannon Guard list with a few rough riders in support.
> 
> We're allowed two army lists throughout the tournament of which i've only used one allocation :mrgreen:
> 
> Thanks for the info on the fists.


STOP!! Remember every necron warrior has the capability to take out a demolisher. Not much of a chance for one to do it but picture 12 of them even at 24". 12 shots equals two glancing hits. The least he'll do is shut the demolisher up.


----------



## TYRANIDS (Dec 31, 2006)

dudes it clearly states that you can only use 1d6 with the models *unaugmented*
strength so your powerfists are only str4 though you would most probabaly still get furious charge though with str 5 i dnt think its gonna do much

i am probly wrong but 'unaugmented' isnt that stuff that alters your str such as the powerfist


----------



## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Uberschvienen will probably know better than I,
but I was under the impression that you would still get the double strength just no special rules like extra d6 for Chainfist/Monsterous Creature rules etc?

PS. TYRANIDS please be more patient with the submit post button as we seem to spend an awful lot of time deleting multiple posts from you :wink:


----------



## TYRANIDS (Dec 31, 2006)

i dnt do it on purpose when i post it comes up with awhite paige say (random lettors) error and i press refresh and then it posts again sumtimes i have to do it a third time

i would have thought that a powerfist and other weapons similar to the functioning would be augmented but if you have furious charge or toxin sacs(nids) they count as modifiers


----------



## TYRANIDS (Dec 31, 2006)

dudes it clearly states that you can only use 1d6 with the models *unaugmented*
strength so your powerfists are only str4 though you would most probabaly still get furious charge though with str 5 i dnt think its gonna do much

i am probly wrong but 'unaugmented' isnt that stuff that alters your str such as the powerfist


----------



## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

I went and got the Codex and I think your wrong Tyranids.

The living metal rule only applies to things that count the Monoliths armour as less than it is or weapons that get extra armour penetration dice ( except Ordanance) it does not effect strenght modifiers in any way.


----------



## TYRANIDS (Dec 31, 2006)

i was looking at the codex when i wrote it "any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armour penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what"

and that is after it says all the other stuff like bright lances and extra d6 so it counts for everyone

the key word their is 'any' weapon so its not just refering to weapons causing extra d6 or lance weapons so the powerfist only strikes at its users strength not the double strength as it would normally


----------



## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Mine does not have that written in it? When did you puchase your codex?

GW like to piss around with later print runs (hence my Chaos Codex not having the obliteraters Toughness in brackets) which can cause some auguments.
I really wish they would put revised/date in the later prints to avoid this sort of thing.


----------



## TYRANIDS (Dec 31, 2006)

i got my codex on xmas last year so like 3 months ago 

it says it under living metal literally the last sentence


----------



## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Mine does not have that printed in it dude. Honest!
I have started a new thread to disscuss this so this one can get back on track.

Jezlad wrote: 


> I'm so tempted to take a 3 Demolisher Lascannon Guard list with a few rough riders in support.
> 
> We're allowed two army lists throughout the tournament of which i've only used one allocation
> 
> Thanks for the info on the fists.


The Cabbage wrote:


> STOP!! Remember every necron warrior has the capability to take out a demolisher. Not much of a chance for one to do it but picture 12 of them even at 24". 12 shots equals two glancing hits. The least he'll do is shut the demolisher up.


Cabbage is most correct about this point its too much of a gamble putting armour that close to Necrons, my Vindicator wears it every time I see Necrons.


----------



## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Yeah unfortunately guass weaponry has a mini rending
On a roll of 6 on a armor pen it automatically causes a glancing hit even if it could not normally damage it unless it would normally cause a penatrating hit
I.E necron flayer hits a land raider and rolls a6 for pen automatically glances
Or, the flayer hits a armor 10 open topped on a 6 with pen and penetrates

As well as in shooting it also always wounds on a 6 on wound rolls even if it could not normally hurt the creature 
Then you give em disruption fields if you opp wants to be nasty and send a walker into your ranks :lol:


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

oh thats rite, i forgot about that. damn, thats guna casues havoc among my troops and dreads. bugger. stupid monolith and necrons!

but yes, augmented strength does refer to the powerfists increasing your str and so on.


----------



## TYRANIDS (Dec 31, 2006)

woot woot im finally right about something


----------



## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

For the final time I'm going to say it, there is no possible interpretation of the Living Metal rule as written that justifies an attempt to claim that it invalidates the bonus strength of Power Fists.



Necron Codex said:


> *Living Metal*: The Monolith is made of living Necron metal which is not only self-repairing but is capable of adapting its structure to resist incoming attacks. Attacks which count the target's armour as less than it really is (Such as Bright Lances and Blasters) do not do so against the Monolith. Similarly, weapons that get extra armour penetration dice (such as Chainfists, Monstrous Creatures or Melta weapons) do not get the extra dice against the Monolith. Ordnance weapons still roll the highest dice and select the score.


----------



## TYRANIDS (Dec 31, 2006)

dude they must of added it to the codex cause mine has like an extra couple of sentences and my codex is only 3 months old not even that 2 and 1/2

"Ordnance weapons still roll 2D6 for armour penetration and choose the highest score. In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armour penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what."

so GW must of released a new copy with some minor changes


----------



## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Could we please keep this topic in the one thread ( the one I started for it) and let this thread go back to dealing with nailing Necrons with Jez's Blood Angels. :wink: 
Thanks Guys.


----------



## TYRANIDS (Dec 31, 2006)

yeh my suggestion is as follows send forth all your cc guys and pop it to his warriors real bad and mow down his lord as without his res orb its chow time for the warriors so make sure you kill him off too depending on what he does with his monolith dw worry about it unless he tries teleporting his troops out of cc cause it cant hurt you whilst your in CC


----------



## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

You could just spam lascannons but that would be quite boring


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

you would need one heck of a lot of lascannons to take him down fast enough. i agree with the point of getting into CC with power weapons, because they dont allow armour saves or WBB.


----------



## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

CC is the way to go, I had a load of success with Deathwing on a campaign weekend. In four battles over the weekend they proved unable to deal with deepstriking terminators. Four scuffles four major victories.

All the necron players were using the phalanx army of warriors and immortals with a res orb carrier marching slowly towards me in a gaggle. Just made it easy for me as I didn't have to chase them.

In short try terminators. :twisted:


----------



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

My version of the codex says the same as TYRANIDS. However if you go to the gw webiste the FAQ clears things up and states that powerfists do indeed get there str Bonus


----------



## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Really? Can you post a picture, so we can get this argument out of the way?


----------



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Anyway to get this thread back on topic.

The Manager "Daren" didn't play me, he went up against an Eldar list and lost. 

That puts me in the lead! 

32 < Me
24 < Daren
24 < Other Darren with Eldar

Only 2 games to go - one of which will probably be against the Necrons. I'm just hoping I get to dodge the Guard armies. 

I hate Pie!


----------



## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Good luck.


----------



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Pie isn't so scary when its not indirect. and on 4 by 4 its hard to get decent indirect positioning. Just remember play agressive. Cant see how BA could lose on 4 by 4 if you go for glory


----------



## Hudge (Dec 24, 2006)

Get a land raider, they demolish necrons, trust me, my army was destroyed by one of those damned things.


----------



## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

> Get a land raider, they demolish necrons, trust me, my army was destroyed by one of those damned things.


 :? 
With every weapon within the Crons armoury glancing the hell out of the LR you must have been bloody unlucky with your dice rolls, although If It managed to deliver a bunch of assault termies led by a chaplain I could see them causing a rather large dent to your Necron force.


----------



## blkdymnd (Jan 1, 2007)

yeah, vehicles should never be a worry to a necron force... ever


----------



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

The manager game is officially next tuesday. Its a 6 Game tournament, he's on 4 massacres and a loss. I'm on 5 Massacres.

We're using a weird 0-2-4-6-8 system for the various scores. I'm not sure exactly how they're working it but im on 40 he's on 32 and another guy is on 30. All I need is 2 points to win the tournament. Basically anything but a massacre against me.

Apparently we're playing take and hold next week so in theory I could go 2nd and stall for a draw.

He's using 

Destroyer Lord + 5 Destroyers
4 x 10 Warriors
2 x 5 Immortals
and a monolith

I'm sticking with 

Reclusiarch + DC
8 Assault Marines (Fist vet)
2 x 5 Las Tacticals
6 Scouts (Fist Vet)
2 Tornadoes
2 Tornadoes
2 x Baal Preds
Pred Anni (3 Las)

There's been a serious lack of terrain so I should be able to rend the hell out of them before the DC moves in for the mop up.


----------



## blkdymnd (Jan 1, 2007)

it's tough to find a focus, but I would hate to fight your force with anything, so you should do alright


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

i would take quite a few lascannons, sure thay only kill 1 guy at a time but when that guy dies he dont come back  also get a guy with a force weapon to deal with the lord, although the reclusiarch should do fine with a little support, just watch for the warsycthe, if he takes one, kill him before he gets a chance to use it.

also the LC's can take care of the monolith, plus some meltas should do nicely against it, i mean the AP1 take its only possible glancing straight to a penetrating, i think, i cant remeber, if it can you can only score penetrating with them


----------



## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

> plus some meltas should do nicely against it, i mean the AP1 take its only possible glancing straight to a penetrating, i think, i cant remeber, if it can you can only score penetrating with them


Living metal rule makes that a no-no, sure you pen on a six but you can'y rely on rolling that lucky six, the lascannons should do fine.
This list Is definately beatable especially on a 4 x 4 board. Lascannons at the Monolish, and your speeders at his Destroyers to negate his mobility and from then on the rest of his army will have nowhere to run from the DC and assault squad.
I certaintly wouldn't expect the BA's to lose anyhow! :wink: 
Good luck Jez!


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

yea i thought so, i had a momentary blank about the AP1, and i do know about the living metal, i have a necron army, i just blanked on the AP1 bit.

4x4 you will definitly have a good chance at beating him., it means you can get in quickly to take out his troops and make him phase out


----------



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

so? how'd it go jez


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

i am intrigued


----------



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

It wasn't pretty.

He took 

Destroyer Lord
5 Immortals
5 Immortals
10 Necron Warriors
10 Necron Warriors
10 Necron Warriors
5 Destroyers
Monolith


He split his forces on two flanks

the left had 5 immortals, 5 destroyers and 10 warriors, the right had the lord, 5 immortals and 10 warriors. 

The first turn was spent moving the speeders, baals and death company into poition. My speeders and baal preds opened up with heavy bolters (I made sure they were out of assault cannon range so the necrons couldn't return fire). Then I fired a few lascannon shots. His turn one was uneventful - he had no range.

On turn two I sent my 4 speeders to take out his left flank (my right) supported by the 2 baal preds. The death company raged and were now well within the 18 inch assault range of the warriors on his left. The assault squad stayed around the objective - if he wanted to take it he'd have to take a charge off these guys. I pumped a couple of lascannon shots into the immortals on his right flank. The speeders opened fire on the Destroyers killing them all. The Baal preds opened up on the immortals killing them all. My death company assaulted the warriors, killed them all then rolled a 10 for the consolidate (red grail) and moved towards his other flank.
Not bad for a turn, i'd managed to take out his entire flank. Although he isnt the best necron player i've come up against. Splitting your forces into manmageable 5 man squads without a res orb near is pretty lame. His turn two saw him roll a one for the Monolith and kill 2 Death Company.

On turn three my Assault squad raged and jumped ready to assault the 5 immortals on his right flank. The speeders flew over the objective in the centre and opened fire on the immortals, as did the death company. Killing 5. He then told me his lord didnt have a res orb?! The assault squad assaulted the warriors and managed to knock him down to less than his phaseout. 

Game Over before the Monolith arrived!

His list was poor, plus he played it poorly.


----------



## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

All that worry, and he couldnt even play it well!?!?... wow :shock: anyways congrats jez


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

yea, congrats, thats what i call bloody awsum playing on ur part atleast. i would neva like to go up against you!


----------



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

There's another guy on 3 Massacres, if he wins 6 massacres we'll have to have a play off. 

He has a full bike list though so I can't see it being a problem, a couple of rends and assaults should see them off


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

good stuff. yea, wat u thnk ill need in my army, i no i need fast attack, but wat should i get 4 fast

Command squad w captain and chaplain
termie command w librarian
Emporers champion

termies - grey knights
dread

10 marines
6 scouts
vindicare

predator annihilator
LRC

Shrike

as i asked, what sould i go for fast attack?


----------



## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

Our survey says, Tornado's!  
Fast, cheap, maneuverable firepower!  
I'm suprised that guy split his army like that, without a res orb and duplicate units nearby his WBB rolls are screwed from turn 1. :? 
Congrats on the win Jez!


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

tornadoes it is!

again congrats on the win jez


----------



## Hudge (Dec 24, 2006)

Ye go Jez go!


----------



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

so tempting to give lakeside a call and line up 5 games in one night


----------



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Your chaos would lose to my Blood Angels on their tables.


----------



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

lol probably but i could probably convince them the final should be on a 6x4


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

lol go for it guys, tell us the results when you get them


----------



## kholek09 (Feb 4, 2009)

you CAN TAKE ANYTHING AND THE NECRONS SHALL STILL HARVEST YOU:victory:



Please do not add spam comments two years after the fact.


----------

