# Ahriman?



## Widowmaker666 (Jul 30, 2008)

In a pure 1k sons list is it worth it to take Ahriman? or would a MoT sorcerer be better?


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

I usually go for a "generic" MoT sorceror, as you can get more troops/units for the difference in price. 

....That, and building your own Sorceror model is always fun. :victory:


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## Widowmaker666 (Jul 30, 2008)

hoe did you build your sorceror? Terminator armour? combi- weapons? what powers?


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

Ahriman is a good IC to take if you are playing at a high points level, his ability to use three powers a turn which may be all shooting powers is so useful against most opponants not to mention very annoying. Otherwise just take Sourcerer with MoT if your points limit is low.


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## Weirdboyz (Apr 12, 2009)

The problem with Ahriman is that none of the Chaos powers really work well in tandem, and he can't use multiples of the same power (i.e., 2 doombolts, etc.).

So what if he can use 3, it is like this:
Doombolt: Ok at shredding Meq, but useless against MC's or Tanks.
Wind of Chaos: Ok at shredding MEQ, but you need to be really close, because it is a template. If he is standing around with some Thousand Sons, they are sweating in their Rubric armor.
Bolt of Change: Well, a single S8, AP1 shot will turn the tide against the horde that is approaching. If I use it against a tank, the rest of my powers are a write-off.
Gift of Chaos: Purely for shits and giggles. I have never had it work for me. Ever.
Warptime: Fair enough, but do you really want him in CC?

So you end up paying more than the cost of a Land Raider for a character that can use 3 psychic powers that do not synchronize well. He isn't anything to write home about in CC, and has no psychic defense (not that Chaos does, it just pisses me off that the Codex is defenseless against psykers). 

My mind, if you want the Sorcerer, just tailor a generic dude and save the points.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

He is nasty but so expensive for very little true effect.
In general chaos sorcerors are overpointed once you have paid for your powers and then compared to your average librarian
I'd take a tzeentch daemon prince give him doombolt and wind of chaos and call him magnus


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

Widowmaker666 said:


> hoe did you build your sorceror? Terminator armour? combi- weapons? what powers?


Often, I don't even take a Sorceror with MoT, but just a "normal" Lord with MoT (Fluffwise his powers have no use on the battlefield, but are vital elsewhere). That way you gain access to the Tzeentch daemon weapon, which I team up with termie armor, along with all the other Lord options as needed... That way you can get around all the anti-psyker gear that's so popular these days.


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## Annabelle (Nov 24, 2008)

I take a Dp with MoT, Wings, Wind O Chaos and Warptime. The main goal of any chaos marine, lord, sorcerer or whatever is to ascend into demon-hood. I don't see anything unfluffy about having a Dp lead my Thousand Sons, I'd take Ahriman, but he's crap.


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## b.anthracis (Nov 18, 2008)

Weirdboyz said:


> The problem with Ahriman is that none of the Chaos powers really work well in tandem, and he can't use multiples of the same power (i.e., 2 doombolts, etc.).


Why is that? I was under the impression he could use Gift of chaos more than once?

But I may be wrong.

Cheers

b.anthracis


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

b.anthracis said:


> I was under the impression he could use Gift of chaos more than once?


As it is not a shooting power, you can.

He could also use Warptime twice; however he would not get any benefit.


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## Ishamael (Aug 26, 2008)

As much as I hate to speak on it, Ahriman may be one of the worst characters in the game. His cost is far too high for what you get, and even then, the Chaos psychic powers are just silly. I did try to make a Tsons list, but Chaos still suffers from just about every other army having psychic defense, as well as _better_ powers. Three uses of Gift per turn? Heck yes, I'll make one Marine a mindless spawn! Oh what, psychic hood? Well, I do worship the very God that gave birth to magic...but I have nothing to counter it...

Just about any Chaos HQ with a MoT is better than Ahriman. Spend those saved points wisely!


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

The trouble with Ahriman and so many other Independant Characters is that Gw initial intent for their use was just for fun. Now that 5th ed is upon us they dont seem to be worth the points, and as many of the players seemed to have a 'Im not playing if i lose, I must win all the time' atittude their is not much point in their use. With that said i quite like the IC and yea while they are overpointed, they do add a depth and diversity to the army as a whole. People just need to look at the game from differant angels, not just the 'MUST WIN AT ALL COSTS' angel. So my answer is 'yes' if you want to use Ahriman then please do, he is good in some ways and bad in other ways, it dosnt mean he is absolutly f***ing shite and you should never use him, thinking that way is just BULLSHITE.


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## Raptors8th (Jul 3, 2009)

@ Rahl: Shut up and stop whining, if you want to bitch about 5th ed. do it here, it's been going on for over a week and quite frankly the stupidity on it has been quite hilarious.

@whoever started this: Neither. Yeah I know the sorcerers fluffy, but Tsons are shit in combat, and thanks to fearless and a 4++ they're stuck there until they're dead, which lasts a painfully long time. So you need assault bailout (read: DP w/wings).
MoT and 2 powers (warptime and bolt of change) and it's fluffy enough, fills your mandatory HQ slot, and saves your sons asses in combat.


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## Weirdboyz (Apr 12, 2009)

b.anthracis said:


> Why is that? I was under the impression he could use Gift of chaos more than once?
> 
> But I may be wrong.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Gift isn't a shooting power. But the real damage dealers, like Wind of Chaos, Bolt of Change, and Doombolt are. I would personally love him if he could even double up on one of them (kinda like Eldrad can for the Eldar). It would put his damage potential through the roof, and make him worth his tricked-out Land Raider price tag. Example scenario: Warptime, then 2 Wind of Chaos into a horde. Squishy. 

@ Lord Rahl: My issue with a special character from a non 5th ed. codex is that for (most of them), you pay tons of points for a character that _doesn't_ add any depth or diversity to the force. Does Ahriman allow you to take some specially Tzentchy units when included? Does Abbadon allow you to take Terminators as Troops? No. The only Chaos Special HQ that even modifies how the army works is _Fabulous_ Bile. And from my experience, he can kill more Marines 'enhancing them' than your opponent does while shooting at them.

The older edition special characters just can't match up to 5th ed. ones who generally cost a little less, and often modify the FoC to truly allow you to take a themed list (refer to Codex: Space Marines). I think it is a little unfair to call all of us nay-sayers 'Win at all costs' players just because we are trying to steer this fellow away from an over-costed psyker who only gets called a 'fluffy addition' because he was a Thousand Son.


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## Ishamael (Aug 26, 2008)

Rahl, thanks for blatantly insulting me. I'll call crap on you saying someone should just take whatever they desire to play. We play a hobby that requires hundreds of dollars to play properly, and I'm not about to let someone buy Ahriman, try him out, then regret the purchase of that model, because I did it. I bought him, and guess what? He didn't work out. Someone making an informed decision, however, comes down to one playing to one's desire, and I can't fault that. 

Oh, and drop that WAAC crap. Gaming terminology is insulting enough as it is. I hear someone started a trend of saying tactical/storyline instead of the WAAC/fluffbunny deal. Something along those lines. 

Daemon Princes with Wings and the MoT are pretty sharp. Bolt/Warptime isn't too bad a combination.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

No Offense to anyone but I say try it out yourself before letting other people run your lists. If you want to know which is better then a Sorceror is the better Meta Game way to go. If you want Ahriman, then try him out. If nothing else hes still a superbad ass model to play as a Sorceror. In the End from Win Or Dont Play view point, DP everytime. Suks till C: Chaos 5th comes out.


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

@ Raptors8th, i am not whining, i was just stating that other people tend not to use him because he is crap. That dos'nt mean the OP should't use him. I was agreeing that if you want to try him then, then do so. And i was not bitching about 5th like you seem to think. I was offering an alterrnative, if the OP wants to use Ahriman then he can, just because he is crap in 5th does'nt mean everyone should say "no he shit dont use him". 

@Weirdboyz: Who said anything about having to change the FoC to add depth and diversity, IC add the flavour and character to the army you play with and shows that the player is willing to try some "trial and error" before making the decision about what to use. That is all i was trying to say dont start attacking people because you dont understand how they think.

@Ishamael: You can crap on whoever you want, but if your telling me you only buy the models that work and help you win in games then shame on you. Yes we do spend hundreds of dollars on the hobby, but it does'nt mean we should only buy what works. If you actually had a true love for the game then you would buy as much as possable. 

As for hte WAAC shite, it's true to many people on this forum try to steer the OP's away from a happy communial game to a must win society. It's bollocks, people should start thinking outside the box and not just "i need to win". Who cares if you lose it's just a game, right, If you win then, yea, bonus. 

If the OP wants to try out Ahriman then we as a gaming community should let him, otherwise if everybody did what we tell him then there would no diversity in the armys, just the same old boring built lists. The WAAC lists.


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## Syko515 (Jan 22, 2008)

see, personally i've had good experiances running Ahriman. i attach him to a unit of termies in a raider with a second sorcerer { lash or tzeentch warptime combo] then its, get out warptime, winds, and either a follow up souls sucking with the force weapon or a gifts after i warptime. after CC its back to the raider to go do it again.

the ONLY thing i do not enjoy about our beloved CSM special characters are the fact that for a little more then 100 points you get an ETERNAL WARRIOR model with 4 wounds and a boosted stat bar...that sticks out like a sore thumb on the field. or you can take abby. instant death is a real downer for good dudes like kharn, typhus, and ahriman. dudes who've been alive since well before the heresy, dudes who have waged war after war battle after battle. dudes who have fought at the side of horus and Abaddon. dude who i feel by fluffy should be EW.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Lord Rahl, I think you have fundamentally misunderstood the purpose of the "Tactics Forum". This is the place to discuss tactics and whether things are effective in the game or not. There are other places for discussing other stuff. Showing up here and accusing people of trying to win games is missing the point.

The OP asked if Ahriman was any good. People responded "No". That is an on-topic and entirely legitimate response. Nobody was in any way rude to the OP or anyone else until you showed up.

Also, in my experience there is no such thing as a WAAC 1ksons player. Surely even you can see that these are people who have made a heavy concession to the fluff, by limiting themselves to only a small portion of their codex. For them to then discuss which of their small selection of units work best is entirely reasonable. For you to accuse them of powergaming, as if they were fielding only lash princes, plague marines, zerkers and obliterators, makes you look like a frothing lunatic.

I can't add a lot to the on topic discussion, where most of the important points have been made. Basically daemon princes are the best chaos HQs in what I consider to be a pretty poorly written codex, which fails at any semblance of internal balance.


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

I do apologise for getting rude, its not normally like me. I have no excuse for it and i am very sorry for the trouble it caused.

Now back to the OP question:
The best tactics to employ would be to take a sorcerer, its more beneficial as far as game winning goes, he is cheaper and more flexiable, but if you want a fluffy army take Ahriman by all means, just dont expect him to win to many battles for you.


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