# Lootas or Warbikers?



## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

I have been thinking about these two units for my 1500pt army. I can only use one of them. The rest of list will be 3 boy mobs in 3 battlewagons with a SAG mek and some grots hold my home objective. This leaves me with about 230 points to play with iirc. There are two options that I can see will be usefull.

Unit 1:
9 Warbikers
Nob with BP+PK

Pros:
Fast enough to keep up with battlewagons and can quickly come to the aid of a boy mob if needed. The also have quite a bit of fire power. Can move to contset objectives if needed.

Cons:
Are basicaly a tiny boyz mob, vulnerable to morale checks and won't perfom that well in cc despite the Klaw due to low numbers.

Unit 2: 
Lootas mob

Pros:
Immense amount of firepower. Hard to root out when in cover. Will be a favourable target for outflankers which could help the gretchin last longer if deployed far apart.

Cons:
Low numbers make them vulnerable to morale checks like the Warbikers. Suck in combat. Will get shot to hell and back.

All things told its about even and I don't realy know what to do. Both have advantages that could be useful but I'm not sure what I need. What do you think?


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

I would say go for the lootaz just from my own experience... I have both Lootaz (12) and Bikers (with Wazzdakka for fun games 2x7 incl Nob) and so far both have performed well if use well.

The Lootaz need to be set up good ... then the rest is just picking the "right" targets
Bikes need to be moved right to avoid getting captured and killed as the size is the problem
they shoot not worse than lootaz (7 Bikes shoot 21 times sync S5 which means 11-12 hits on average wounding most time on a 3+)
It relly depends what you want ... Bieks are fast ... and nerving for the enemy ... they can kill tanks more reliable than lootaz with the PK and have a 4+ coversave everytime (except when the shot is ignoring it  )

But for your army I would go with Lootaz as imho they are just more for the points though more specialized


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

I say Lootas.
You have very little anti-vehicle firepower in your army, you need a bit of dakka to take out the enemy transports, then your Boys can sweep in and slaughter.

For your 230 points you can get a full squad of 15, and you'll have 15 points left over, so a few more Gretchin to throw in.
Or you could take 2 squads of 8 for the full 230 points, that'll make a dent.


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

I should add that the BW all have 4 Rokkits and the grotz mob is 19 Gretchin with a Runtherd. If I was going to take Lootas they would have to be max size for me, two reasons for this, more shots, harder to wipe out and (to start with) immune to pinning. The transport popping ability would be nice though.

Any more pros mor the bikers or was it a silly idea?


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

Bikers, as I wrote and as you mentioned already, just offer some more tactical opportunities as they are fast and can take a PK but pts vs durability they suck really!

Every time I used them so far they got shot and if they fail the Ld test they are goners 3d6 away over the horizon ... or you take 12 and then it gets really too expensive (pts and $-wise) 

as I said : get lootaz as they are far easier to use and as winterous says ... they can take apart a Rhinos in no time

maybe reconsider your bazookas on your BWs and use those points to strengthen something else ... after all your Tanks are there to bring your boyz to the enemy ... always drivin' 12 (or even 13)" so they cannot fire their bazookas... once you are there they might have opened the Rhinos but this costs you time while your enemy can react and open your Tanks...


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## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

If you want any hope of dealing with AV11, you will bring the lootas.


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

I would sugest going for two lots of lootas and dropping all those rokkit launchas. put a Kannon on each wagon and leave it at that. This will give you an extra 90 points so you could have two units of ten lootas. Your opponent will have to choose between shooting the wagons or the Lootas, if he can see them. You could deploy your lootas behind the wagons to protect them from 1st turn firing.

The down side of one big mob of 15 is that it will attract alot of attention. The likihood is that your opponent will have enough anti infantry fire power for one unit to be removed or serverly damaged. If you have two units then one of them should remain unscathed.


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

I forgot to add that it means that you can shoot two targets a turn as opposed to one.


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## Rye (Sep 22, 2009)

I'd say bikes. Mobility and choppiness all in one, with the added bonus of being able to tear light vehicles (and MBTs with light rear armor) apart on the charge. I've lost a tank or two to a PK nob on a bike. That Str 9 is fearsome.

They would act as a quick reinforcement for da boyz in da wagon, and like you said, can contest objectives quickly. Personally, I'd be more afraid of a mob of bikers than a squad of lootas anyhow.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

yeah bikes can be deadly ... but lootaz are just more for the points ... a loota cost only 15 a bike 25 a bikernob with claw and BP +40 making the 225 for 15 lootaz ridiculous cheap compared to the small bikemob of just 7 bikes (215) not that much.

as I wrote before:
Bikes are for tactics and distraction and ambushes
Lootaz are for - set them up and shoot everything

so Bikes being more expensive and demanding a more experienced use are not worse or better but lootaz are just easier to play with and more for the points imho
I use both (not in the same list though) though I have made bad experience with bikes while the lootaz just needed to be set up good and that's it.


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

I am also going to have to say lootas over bikes. Lootas when set up can really hurt AV 11 and 12 so tau devil fish, IG valkery and things like that have to be careful where they go which cuts down their mobility. These tanks can usually out manuver bikers.

Also lootas don't suck that bad in hand to hand. My lootas have taken out many infilitrating untis in CC. Also use their 48 inche range to keep things from shooting back at them. They will also take attention away from you big mek with the SAG if you depoloy them seperate or you could have a hand of god unit putting the big mek with the lootas will boost their leadership and give a unit that can fire at the same target or different targets. I think they work best seperate since this make your opponent split its fire.


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

The idea was to put the SAG with some grotz on an objective so the SAG and Lootas would be seperate and I think that most outflankers will go for the lootas once they realise how much hurt they put out.

In all I guess that the Warbikers were a nice idea but it looks like lootas are just better.


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## Toten (Dec 26, 2008)

go Lootas imo, bikers aint worth it, ok t5 is awesome, but I3 and low numbers and needs short range, lootas beat them with a ton of dakka to spare, 15 gives you minimum 15 shots, max 45, and a average of 30 shots a round! Now thats 10 hits, which nearly guarantees you 1 or 2 pen vs av 11/12..

And rokkits on your Battlewagons? seriously? 4 pieces on eacH? 120 points wasted! alL I can say is WASTED.
go with 2 Big Shootas on each = 30 points, and you´ve got 90 points to play with, and if my math is correct you can put in 2 10 man squads of lootas (screw the pinning stuff, if they shoot at your lootas, your battlewaggons are safe! I always loose the battlewaggons first, since my buddies know what pain they bring)


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

In terms of efficiency I suggest you take Lootas. As much as it pains me to admit it the Warbikers aren't really worth 25 points each and yes they do have TL Dakkaguns but sadly Lootas are not only cheaper with a stronger, better gun but have longer range as well. More or less the Lootas have more benefits than Warbikers, not to mention that getting 15 Lootas is far cheaper than getting 8 or so Warbikers....its retarded how much they cost, curse you GW!


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

I would *really* like to hear the reasoning between the designers when they made Lootas. Lets take a look at the other Ork elites that costs the same PPM:
Burnas are ok, they are deadly but very short-ranged. So: very strong if allowed to shine, a thought trough unit.
Tankbustas are quite random, to say the least. They do, regardless of other things, create a huge "no vehicle enter zone" which can be usefull in many ways. So: tricky to use, but lethal if they can be made to work(like in a battlewagon).
Lootas. Uuhhm, whats missing? The flaw, that both burnas and tankbustas has, is missing and that really shows. So: there is, almost, not a single reason not to field Lootas, they are retardedly good for their low cost:shok:

I guess my advice is clear as water:wink:


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Lootas by a mile for me
They are cheaper and deadly, terribly scary when that dice rolls a 6 for number of shots. 
They can really bite through armour in sheer number of shots
Warbikers are good but lootas are cheaper and for me a tau player, the idea of being outshot is terrifying

Alos anything that can hit my transports on their front armour and still have a good chance of getting through scares me more


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## Flakey (Sep 24, 2008)

MaidenManiac said:


> Lootas. Uuhhm, whats missing? The flaw, that both burnas and tankbustas has, is missing and that really shows. So: there is, almost, not a single reason not to field Lootas, they are retardedly good for their low cost:shok:


The flaw is it is a heavy weapon. Which is a worse flaw than you may think, when you look at other armies. With Orks though there are just 2 Non assault weapons for infantry, Lootas, and SAGs. 

Krack missile launchers. Heavy for most armies. Orks assault.
Heavy bolters. Most armies Heavy. Orks assault.
Plasma rifles. Most armies rapid fire. Orks assault.

This is especially noticable if you have to deploy on your first turn or from reserves, and/or have a speed freak/Evil Sunz themed army.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

... so what?

you just set them up with brain and they do their work ... no need to move them anytime if done right.
add a little Gretchin shield and they are save from CC-attacks even agains Droppod marines
(ever seen an Ironclad covered in Gretchin ... my opponents grin will fade soon when he realizes that his precious Bot is out of play for at least 2 rounds :grin: )

in an Speed freak army the lootaz alos have their place : long range background artillery

you want to open those Cans (Rhinos) to get the meat (Marines) out. and lootaz are just priceless

talking about Tankbustaz (lil ot ^^ ):
I love them ... they are the only unit that can deliver S10 hits and are not Warbosses ... priceless in Planetstrike missions when you need to open them darn Fortresses


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Sebi said:


> talking about Tankbustaz (lil ot ^^ ):
> I love them ... they are the only unit that can deliver S10 hits and are not Warbosses ... priceless in Planetstrike missions when you need to open them darn Fortresses


Looooooooove Tankbustas!
Sure they have to shoot a vehicle if they can see it.
So you put them in a transport, and if they won't be in range, you just move fast instead!

And yeah, the Tankhamma and (probably not often used) Tankbusta bombs are great against vehicles.
Tankbustas are so underestimated I think.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

.. remember the rule that transported units can be attacked if the transport was opened by fire?

I once shot a rhino with 5 Rokkits ... opened it and then got to charge the maries with my bustas ... 4xS9 and 6xS10 and 5 normal Bustaz kicking the hell out of them 

But we are hijacking this thread ^^

Just to give you more things to consider:
One thing often forgotten about the bikes is how fast they are!
they can move 18" into CC or 24" when turboboosting ... ideal for tactical moves ... great distraction unit.
As I said both have pros and cons but if it comes to Value/points the lootaz are the best choice.


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