# BL online pricing offensive to Aus customers?



## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Hey guys,

Long time, no see. Went online to buy/pre-order ADB's upcoming novel 'Aurelian' today and once again I was both offended and confused by the BL website's online pricing. the BL has the AUS exchange rate set at around .60cents US, which is correct... in 1995. today the AUS dollar buys between 1.05 and 1.10 US so all AUS prices SHOULD be less than the set US price (excluding postage). here is a copy of the email I sent BL today... I wonder what answer I will get? As far as I can see, its simply a blatant rip off without justification. no wonder so many Aussie BL fans buy from bookdepositry with this ridiculous overcharging.



> Dear BL,
> 
> I’m very concerned about your currency conversion rate on your website. You seem to have the AUS dollar rate at some bizarre low rate from back in the mid 1990’s. FYI the AUS dollar is buying around $1.05US yet on your website. You charge $50 US for ADB’s new novel Aurelian, yet when you convert to it goes up to $90!!! Almost double! Going off ACTUAL global conversion rates the same book in should be <$50.
> 
> ...


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## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

It is a blatent rip off. Its a major pain in the ass. I only buy mine from 3rd party online book stores. 20 euros for gaunts omnibus? Bargan. 

Or I buy mine from GW stockists.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

I do sincerely hope that is not a word for word on the email you sent them. Because to be quite honest, the tone feels less than professional, more whinging than concern.

Its the abbreviations, capped word(s), aggressive and insulting structure, and overuse of punctuation in places. If I were on the receiving end of this, it would very likely be doled off to my delete box at worst, set low on my list of priorities at best.


So what answer might you get? If thats what you emailed them than probably not all that much.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

darkreever said:


> I do sincerely hope that is not a word for word on the email you sent them. Because to be quite honest, the tone feels less than professional, more whinging than concern.
> 
> Its the abbreviations, capped word(s), aggressive and insulting structure, and overuse of punctuation in places. If I were on the receiving end of this, it would very likely be doled off to my delete box at worst, set low on my list of priorities at best.
> 
> ...


Thanks DR, you are correct. that'll teach me to email in anger. Now with a little time to cool off, ive resent the email below with the original attached.



> Dear BL,
> 
> Please ignore my previous email below, after sending it and re-reading it I’m embarrassed to say it may have been a little aggressive. My apologies.
> 
> ...


I think its only fair that I show at least a 'little' emotion considering they are charging me almost double what I should be getting charged to buy from them. We do have some right to be pissed off. But once again, thanks for showing me the error of my ways. I was just so annoyed that once again (Promethian Sun was worse) I was priced out of buying something i really really wanted not because I couldn't afford the real price, but because I couldn't afford the unfairly over inflated price. Promethian Sun was over $120AUS posted fyi for Australian customers.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

ok, just to double check I thought maybe its because the AUS is doing so well against the US dollar but not the GBP... so I converted to GBP and even then if its costs $30GBP the conversion into AUS is only $47.15 not $90. Still almost double.

I just cant find a valid reason for this no matter how hard I try to see it from their end.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Brother Subtle said:


> I think its only fair that I show at least a 'little' emotion considering they are charging me almost double what I should be getting charged to buy from them. We do have some right to be pissed off.


Oh yes, but as I've learned over the years, and as I am sure you have as well, we can still write in a professional manner and convey emotion while doing it.


There are still other ways that the email could have been done, but I know I would much rather the second over the first. That one should definitely get you a response, and hopefully a positive one. (Though providing a number of links to sources backing up what you are pointing out would have been a good move as well.)


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

ill let you all know how it goes with the response. im sure we'll be able to dissect and discuss what they have to say in a mature fashion. thanks for the tips DR. appreciate your feedback.


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## Callistarius (Aug 17, 2010)

I'd be interested to see the reply. I've yet to get a reply to the email I sent after the latest round of GW price-hikes where we in Australia are paying roughly double the price in UK.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Could have sworn you had a similar thread regarding Promethean Sun. Why are you still surprised by their pricing 4 months later? Get used to it. If you're not paying in sterling, they're gonna ass fuck you.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

ok here is the reply.




> Hi Ryan
> 
> I'll do my best to allay your concerns, but this answer probably won¹t be wholly satisfactory for you.
> 
> ...



what do you all think? fair? or crock of shit?

I think the bit im not happy with is this:



> Over time the economic factors and gradual shifts in the market pricing structure result in these disparities evening out, unfortunately it can mean that one region gets a slightly better deal than others for a while.


If you break this down and reconfigure it for layman's terms, I guess it should read:



> Look we realise we do overcharge the Australian market, but considering your on the other side of the world we couldn't really give a shit


hmmm... I guess us Aussies will just continue to get buttf**ked by the BL. oh well, was worth a punt.



Khorne's Fist said:


> Could have sworn you had a similar thread regarding Promethean Sun. Why are you still surprised by their pricing 4 months later? Get used to it. If you're not paying in sterling, they're gonna ass fuck you.


Settle mate, yes I did mention this with Promethean Sun, but this time I tried to find out why. Put yourself in my (our) shoes. Imagine if instead of paying 8 pound for a book, they charged you 15 pound. Or instead of 30 pound for a limited Ed. book, they charged you 50 pound. All because you don't live in the right 'region'. You'd be pretty pissed off too. I think I speak on behalf of all Aussie BL fans (and Aussie Heresy Online members) with getting fed up being priced out of the BL limited titles market simply because we don't live in the UK.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

Death De Jour - Kathy Reichs 

£7.99 RRP or by conversion rate $12.47

http://www.bookworm.com.au/Book/Death-Du-Jour-9780099255192.aspx

$18.10 [Discount]

-----------------------------

Game of Thrones (Bk1)

£8.99 RRP or by conversion rate $14.03

http://www.dymocks.com.au/ProductDetails/ProductDetail.aspx?R=9780006479888

$21.99

-----------------------------------

Full Dark, No Stars

£7.99 RRP or by conversion rate $12.47

http://www.borders.com.au/book/full-dark-no-stars/15696973/

$15.95

--------------------------------------

I hope you can see the pattern.

The kicker on buying Aurelian will actually be the P&P, which I do think is unfairly high.

Best of luck.

Rob


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

I don't know why you're all concerned about it. Do a little looking into it and you'll see this pattern all over the place. It's not just relegated to Black Library... Neither is it limited to our current time period... For example listening to Eddie and pulling out my BL Preview Catalogue, _Imperial Glory_ is 8.99 US and canadian would be 10.99 CAN.

This is nothing new. Lets move on shall we. it doesn't do to drum up false concern for something that's a fault of the book market, not the publishing company.

CP


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Brother Subtle said:


> Imagine if instead of paying 8 pound for a book, they charged you 15 pound. Or instead of 30 pound for a limited Ed. book, they charged you 50 pound. All because you don't live in the right 'region'. You'd be pretty pissed off too. I think I speak on behalf of all Aussie BL fans (and Aussie Heresy Online members) with getting fed up being priced out of the BL limited titles market simply because we don't live in the UK.


I _can_ imagine. I have to pay in euros, and it's exactly the same situation for me. An ebook currently costs £6.50, which exchanges to €7.40, but if you pay BL in euro it jumps to €8.99. Even buying ebooks with no P&P has been fucked up by their greed, and make no mistake, that's all it's down to, sheer greed. 

They realise they can rip off differing currencies and fob them off with the lame excuse you got. If it wasn't greed, they'd just have left it in sterling and let the credit card companies handle the exchange rate. Thank God for Amazon.


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## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

Hell, the books themselves are CHEAPER in a GW store. I never thought i'd say it myself but anything new is relativly cheap. 

The downside is its only new or high sellings books. You can't get the older BL books, there usually replaced each month.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Khorne's Fist said:


> I _can_ imagine. I have to pay in euros, and it's exactly the same situation for me. An ebook currently costs £6.50, which exchanges to €7.40, but if you pay BL in euro it jumps to €8.99. Even buying ebooks with no P&P has been fucked up by their greed, and make no mistake, that's all it's down to, sheer greed.
> 
> They realise they can rip off differing currencies and fob them off with the lame excuse you got. If it wasn't greed, they'd just have left it in sterling and let the credit card companies handle the exchange rate. Thank God for Amazon.


The fact you think it's about nothing but greed is what saddens me. It's a shame that people who take absolutely no time whatsoever to research _why_ something like this is, can make such unfounded and blatantly retarded claims like this... It's not a matter of greed, it's a matter of the book market having different stipends and additions thrown in depending on the country you're buying from. Some countries charge a premium in tax requirements and other such things that effect the book market. Amazon has been selling ebooks at higher premiums to AUS customers since the kindle was first issued. Here's some reading that may help clarify the issue for your stubborn brain...

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/05/09/online-retailing-the-great-australian-gouge/

simply ask google why book prices are higher for AUS customers and i'm sure you'll get more links and more articles. 

And before you start spouting off about how BL is raping it's customers for money, take a look at all the other major publishers pricing for different regions and you'll notice it's all the same. you goon.

This has been the norm for decades now, why you people think this is new is beyond me... and it's not just books either. Blame your government for lowering the GST threshold for online products. This trend extends across multiple industries.

CP


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Commissar Ploss said:


> The fact you think it's about nothing but greed is what saddens me. It's a shame that people who take absolutely no time whatsoever to research _why_ something like this is, can make such unfounded and blatantly retarded claims like this... It's not a matter of greed, it's a matter of the book market having different stipends and additions thrown in depending on the country you're buying from. Some countries charge a premium in tax requirements and other such things that effect the book market. Amazon has been selling ebooks at higher premiums to AUS customers since the kindle was first issued. Here's some reading that may help clarify the issue for your stubborn brain...
> 
> http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/05/09/online-retailing-the-great-australian-gouge/
> 
> ...


You make some valid points Ploss. But something i just don't understand is if i was to buy a standard size book direct from the BL, posted it will cost me close to $25 AUS. I can get the same book, from a UK based online book website posted to my door for $10 AUS or less. same book, posted from same country. how does that work? I don't expect it to be that cheap from the BL, but certainly not 2.5 times more expensive?

I buy all my books/xbox games etc from UK based companies. All of them, with the exception of the BL convert their UK prices to AUS dollar using the current exchange rate. If they can all do it, and still turn a profit. What possible reason does the BL have other than it likes to make exceedingly large profits off Australian customers?

Australian customers are not asking for discounts, we are not asking for laws to be changed or rewritten. All we are asking for is for our currency to be converted by the correct amount that its currently valued on the world market. I don't think that's an unfair request considering 95% of the rest of the online market does so.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

another thing you should keep in mind is that BL is a division of Games Workshop, and that GW is currently on some sort of "alienate Australia" kick these days. Most, if not all of Black Library's pricing comes down the grapevine from the heads of GW. Unfortunately with very little consideration to the feelings/opinions of the BL heads, i'm sure. As we're all aware, Games Workshop is clearly a profit-seeking missile in terms of it's products, whereas the folks at Black Library still have morals, yet get very little choice in the matter. Resting the blame solely on BL is shameful of you, as you should be aware of whom their parent company is...

CP


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Commissar Ploss said:


> This has been the norm for decades now, why you people think this is new is beyond me... and it's not just books either. Blame your government for lowering the GST threshold for online products. This trend extends across multiple industries.


CP, your point about governments being to blame is blown out of the water by the fact that the euro covers many different nations across the EU, all with different tax regimes, yet the euro price is the same whatever country your in. Besides, if I want to buy models off the FW webstore I can pay in sterling without having to exchange to euros and suffer a massive mark up.



Commissar Ploss said:


> you goon.


Really CP? Not your usual amicable style. Oh well.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

Here is an interesting study: http://www.econ.kuleuven.be/ces/discussionpapers/Dps06/Dps0614.pdf

It looks at the price differentials between the same products within the EU market and concludes that the majority of differentials have no firm explanation.

The fact is the euro has the same exchange rate to GPB regardless of your location in the EU, but if you took that euro and went shopping in one country you will find a variance in price. This appears to be largely, but no always, independant of political or social factors.

BL want a stable price for their products and, as I revealed in the earlier post, the cost of the book in GPB x exchange rate is much lower than the RRP for many different types of fiction books in Australia. You can say that Australian's get screwed over by BL, but the difference between BL direct prices and the price of the latest [Popular fiction] book available from an Australian supplier is not hugely different. 

So why are books to much more costly in Australia? This issue was brought up with the models a few months ago and it was proven that disposable income in Australia is similar in % to that of the UK, but the pay is much higher on average. But going back to the report, the differential could be for many or unknown reasons.

I like to think that its what a company can get away with charging (and I don't mean this in a derisory way). A company wants to do two things: sell as much stuff as possible and get the most profit per sale. Sell high and sell few at a premium. Sell low and sell a gazillion. Or hit that sweet spot for max profit and minimum costs.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Khorne's Fist said:


> Really CP? Not your usual amicable style. Oh well.


And your point here is?

Ploss tried to be nice and calm when pointing out that the blame should not be blindly cast on Black Library and you instead chose to ignore him. The next, logical, step would be a less nice approach. And your know what, you definitely noticed the second time. So don't go whining about something like that, he tried, you ignored, you got something far more blunt and it stuck; move the fuck on.


Now this one is slightly off topic, but has GW removed many of their shops in Australia like they did in the US? Cause that was definitely how we got a little screwed over.


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