# New Empire Arch Lector, waste of points or totally worth it?



## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

Let's face it, with an Arch Lector a full 35 points above the cost of a priest and only granting +1 W, +1 LD, and 50 more points of magic items, are they even remotely worth it?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I do so love questions that are completely unbiased or unloaded towards a particular answer.

Look at the pros - it doesn't share a points allowance for the other priests allowing further stacking, 35 points is 7 state troops - having a 3 wound stubborn hat and 4+ ward is fairly resilient. You are spoiled by by elite fighter and buff heroes like vampires or tomb kings these days but you pay through the nose for them. While his buffs dont improve all that much, his resilience makes up for it. Backed by a standard of discipline you can get a ld 10 general with stubborn and hatred for nearby units. vhs is shit now so stubborn hat is by far the best option. that leaves you 65 points - get yourself meteroic iron and sword of battle and you have a fairly decent character.

for 200 points you get rerolls to hit for your unit and a ld 10 stubborn general. backed by as bsb and you pass on hold the line without the need to take the near useless general thanks to the loss of state troop magic banner.

in lists larger than 2000 points I think an arch lector should be taken to back up the essential wizard lord as little can rival its spot and its resilience outweighs its it 85 point difference when tooled. ecen if you keep it as stubborn lector compare that the 35 point difference is an upgrade that vampires have to pay 70 points for (revenant and standard of discipline).

the brokeness of arch lectors in the last list spoiled you. now you must choose between fighty, magicky or buff. not xombine the best of two and shutdown the strength of others - at the cost of 7 state troops the resilience and additional buffs he provides outweigh their cost and is utteely worth it.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

also you get the opportunity to get a war alter, not sure if thats worth it, but it could be.....


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

why would you go for an aura when you can use the detachment rule which you already pay through the nose for?


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## ExtraCrew (Jan 22, 2012)

The Aura is so you can stick him between to regimental units and buff both, while the pray rule further extends it the detachments, used it for the first time the other day and was really pleased with the results, when my units reached combat I just moved it around as needed to boost my units that needed it. It also gives a great back up to the regular priests. cast their prayers and if they fail or get dispelled he can back them up and give a good blanket area for prayers. I was playing against TK so the banishment spell also really helped.


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

I suppose I can't really argue with the benefit of pulling from a separate point pool from my BSB but if it comes down to a choice between a level 2 wizard with an arch lectore or a level 4 wizard with a priest I think the former is the fool's option. My issue with the Arch Lector is that, with the exception of the war altar, he is no better at being a priest than the hero level is. If you are looking for a magic item tote then get a primary combat lord. And the arch lector is no better backup to the dispelling wizard than the regular priest is, unless I missed a rule somewhere...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

the empire dont have a primary combat lord. the tgm is stuck as cavalry with only cheap throw away units or expensive yet outclassed so called elites (or loses his look out sir) and generals blow next to any and all combat heroes - oldblood, vampires, slaughtermasters even, princes, unkillable dreadlord, khorne heralds, warshrine buffed chaos sorcerors tomb kings are all wandering battlefields these days. and utterly outclass the general. the general is a cheap leadership boost, an arch lector is the same but also grants 3 units hatred and a prayer.

I have to try the altar out sometime then - the aura is a bit too selective so may try a dual altar list, backed by a hurricanum or two.


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## ExtraCrew (Jan 22, 2012)

As an empire player I am sad that we dont have a lord who can take a vampire lord one on one in combat, then I think oh yeah we are only human. The strength of our leaders is that they lead and give buffs, as for the arch lector he is a cheap ld 9 general. If you still wanna take the combat lord take a runefang general or TGM with a 6+ ward save. 

My furture list Im building to will have a War alter and both magic alters, for the points the area buffs are really to good to pass look past. 

I think a lot of people are looking for problems in the book not for ways to use it to make a killer list. Played several game with the new book vs a wide variety of armys and player skill, I only lost one a team game. I could blame my team mate but he is new player and is still learning and I didnt do enough to help us both.


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

Also worth mentioning that you can only have one altar.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I do realise that empire characters cannot compete with those of other races - even bretons have better thanks to the innate 5+ ward save for dealing with enemy characters.

but that was precisely my point - a tgm with 4 runefang attacks makes what might be the best of a bad job. in the past when empire had one of the few 4+ ward save magic items around outside of special characters they were fairly decent and could go toe to toe with anything shy of a 600 point 'kinig' model like tyriom archaon bloodthirsters or mannfred etc. 

now however when everyone has a 4+ ward on their fighter/leader/buffer hero it really limits why you would even bother - not to mention as to why you would even bother going for a 6+ ward save.

a suicide unit of 7-9 reiksguard and a tgm with the other tricksters shard and a runefang might be a good way to use ~400 points in higher games but of course you've got to hope it doesnt get shot or magicked off the board lacking as it does a ward save (although a priest usimg prayer of 5+ ward might help even if it does make it 500 points).

I stand by my opinion that a lector with stubborn hat and backed by a bsb with standard of discipline is the best general you can take as the bsb provides the hold the line.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

I think that the extra wound plus the extra LD and magic points allocation makes the arch lector a viable choice. 

I think that the war alter is a 50/50 proposition. Certain shooting can take it and the arch lector out a bit too easily and the 6" aura is quite limiting, but the ability to buff multiple units with battle prayers and hatred and teh 4+ ward saves may make it a worthwhile unit, especially if you have good counter-battery fire (the cannon on the stank is now better ranged with steam points and the volley gun and cannons still must be dealt with early).


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## misfratz (Feb 9, 2012)

karlhunt said:


> ...35 points ... only granting +1 W, +1 LD...


For comparison, I believe the standard costing always used to be about 50 points per wound, on the basis that was the cost of the Dwarf Rune of Fortitude (unless that was the toughness one). So 35 points seems to me to be a bargain, particularly as you get a point of Ld too.

Of course, it really depends on what other characters you want to put in the army...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Talking of the higher limit, there's no reason to actually fill it if you don't want.

It's a limit, not a challenge. You don't take every possible upgrade for your other units do you? Just because it's similar to an "armoury" allowance, you don't have to fulfil it. Keep it cheap and cheerful. Ironcurse Icon, Stubborn Hat?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I often find myself filling 55pts of a lords 100pts allowance: many books make nasty combinations or powerful items only possible on lord level characters, and making them total to 55pts is the quickest and easiest way of doing that.


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

Honestly I don't usually bother with much in the way of magic items at all, having learned that the extra points add up very quickly across multiple characters and would usually end up buying me an extra unit in the end. 

Then there is always the argument that for 15 pts more than a lector I can rock a priest AND a witch hunter. I like that.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

why? mr2 blow and immunity to fear and terror is sorted by taking the mask of eee for 25 points less. oh and you get to reroll to hit and kb against one model? due to its pitiful 3 i4 S4 attacks, no armour and two wounds, any half decent infantry unit and commander would murder a witch hunter. it falls down to a stiff breeze, and I can get an arch lector with obsidian amulet and mask of eee providing similar benefits for 5 more points.

on another note saw a hilarious tactic tonight - scud lector - lector, carpet, white cloak and great weapon. went straight for The bloodthirster and took it on for the rest of the game, thanks to its 2+ flaming ward.


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

I like the "Scud Lector" idea.

Got a new issue with the Arch Lector in general though. It seems like everyone want to stick him on the altar for the area effect but for the cost of a lector on altar I can pick up three priests, dramatically increasing the number of prayers I can attempt, more than making up for the difference in magic points allowance, and doubling the overall number of wounds. Not only that but I have 55 points left over to actually get some of those magic items and get everyone in heavy armor. How is the, non-scud, Lector worth it again?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Vaz said:


> why? mr2 blow and immunity to fear and terror is sorted by taking the mask of eee for 25 points less.


The model with the mask gets immunity for fear and terror.... not his unit. In fact the model doesn't really even get protection from terror if in a unit since the unit will have to take a terror test if charged by something nasty as the majority of them don't ignore it.
Fear in 8th makes units in base contact take fear tests, the result of which is ignored by any model with fear... mean the mask of ee is good at hobbling the enemy, but not at helping yourself.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

ah. getcha. im spoiled by army wide fear or unbreakable though so you can excuse that.


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## stalarious (Aug 25, 2011)

OK you gotta remember new units mean new tactics and until you try them out you cant say that they are not worth playing with. But thats just my two cents.


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## ExtraCrew (Jan 22, 2012)

Played with the Lector and Alter it has great potential. I still think most of what people think of the new book is based on the old book, "it was better in the old book, this was the tactic I used in the old book". its no longer the old book, its the new book. when it is all said and done and all the armies get updated I feel you will see a game that is well thought out and balanced. The guy I play mainly has OnG and in the old book it was a rare day he beat my empire, since the new book are games are closer and we tie a lot more. And the two armies just seem to fit and play better against each other since both are now updated.


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