# Elves army help



## EwokDwf (Apr 13, 2011)

hello everyone i have been playing warhammer for a long time.. longer than 40k. 
right now i have two armies. i have a lizardmen army and a dwarf army

i want to do an elf army but i cant decide between dark elves, wood elves and high elves

dont realy know the difference either. i have read about them in the rule book and such but dont know what one would be better or good to use

any suggestions or input


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

Wood elves are squirly, basically the fairy loving elves from your standard D&D rpg.
High Elves all wear supremely stuplid pointy hats that make you want to load them in your dwarven cannons and fire the helmet, elf and all, at the enemy. 
Dark Elves are a poor conglomarite of pirates, dinosaur riders, and dwarf wanabees.

Wood elves most everything skirmishes, they have excelent archers and fast cav all of which has wood strider (NICE!).

High elves everything strikes first with high init, which under the new rules means you get to re-roll misses against almost everything (NICER!). They also have great archers, spears that get an extra rank beyond the spear bonus and amazing wizards. Basically these guys can do it all and do it well.

Dark elves everything hates high elves. Why? Because High Elves are so much better than they are. 

My suggestion, go High elves. They are the only army I have ever had to hang up because my local players could not win against me. Besides, my two favorite usits for High Elves (Sea Guard and Sword Masters) both come in the current range starter box which makes them CHEAP! And who doesn't love ASF great weapons that ACTUALLY STRIKE FIRST with 2 attacks/model that re-roll misses every round of combat against anyone Init 4 or under (most races)? Then to give bows to spearmen that strike in 4 ranks WITHOUT the hoard bonus and once again re-roll misses in close combat. Gime gime gime! Oh, did I mention they have Hero Level dragons?

Yeah, go High Elves!
IMHO


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## Saulot (May 25, 2011)

I agree with everything *karlhunt *said about High Elves and Wood Elves, but he's a little unfair towards the Dark Elves. 

Druchii are a pretty good second or third army, actually. I say this because they are quite difficult to master since they are not a typical point and shoot army. You need to really play with their movement and strengths and the synergy available between its units. 

Hex magic, plus hatred, plus repeater crossbow shooting, plus hydra makes for a fun and intimidating army!


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## The Dog Boy (Oct 6, 2011)

I would only suggest against Wood Elves. Don't get me wrong here, they are great models and have good fluff, but the army book is ancient. WHFB is now in its 8th edition but the Wood Elf book was written for 5th and is one of the oldest (if not the oldest) army book still legal and it suffers badly from its age and is difficult to play. The Wood Elves are sure to get a new book sometime soon, but probably not before 2013 and, as a new player, I would urge you to pick one of the other elf armies.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Dark Elves have a high level of synergy that most armies don't possess. Dual Hydra's (or more) make a cheap but incredibly strong battering ram that not a lot of forces can stop. They also have the dread black guard.

Wood elves, I can't say much. They are both annoying to face and annoying to use in my experiences. 

High Elves are very strong nowadays. One word - Teclis.


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## BozlyLittle (Jul 3, 2011)

Dark elves aren't as bad as the first poster said. They get a thing called hatred but thats first round re-rolls But it's gaurenteed there is a slight chance you wont with HE but That happens once every 15 games. 

Dark elves though get the op hydra. Better dragons cooler magic items and arguably more useful magic. 

You said you have lizardmen and dwarfs. Try a true horde army. No elitist army. It's good to mix it up a bit.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Don't know where you guys are coming from. The high elf players in our area are stuggling to win without Teclis and book of Hoeth (which require bunkering in a fortress or building and unfun tactics to be strong). Dark Elves are considered top tier and generally superior. 

Absent playing Teclis, High Elves are struggling to be competitive because of their weaker shooting and relatively expensive core and special infantry and limited rare choices. Dark Elves are clearly superior because they have so many more viable choices.
1. Dreadlord with pendant of khaleth, crown of command, and whip of agony is one of the best lords in the game. With a BSB in range, he can take on a deathstar unit, kill some characters and hold it off almost indefinitely.
2. Supreme Sorceress with sac dagger. The power of darkness spell is cheap to cast and can be cast with one dice with the sac dagger in reserve to throw an extra dice if it does not go off. The sac dagger allows you to cast more spells and reduce the risk of miscasts and force out dispell dice and scrolls. 
3. Hydras. They are relatively inexpensive for monsters. Their handlers get 6 S3 AP attacks with hatred and decent I and WS without being able to be killed and the hydra gets another 7 attacks with hatred and WS. The hydra then gets a breath weapon attack and thunderstomp and terror. It is rightly complained about as one of the most undercosted models in the game. 
4. Repeater Crossbowman. They have two shots and AP. They cost the same as archers with light armour and shields. 
5. The Cauldron of Blood with death hag: this item can be the BSB, is tough with a great 4+ ward save. It gives a free augment to one unit within 24" (5+ ward save, killing blow, +1 attack). 
6. Better scouts. Dark Elf scouts have high BS and double shot, AP and are regularly played. High Elf scouts are rarely played by comparison.
7. Harpies. A unit of skirmisher flyers with two attacks each can take out war machines and survive shooting (especially from cannons and within range of a general). 
8. Dark Riders: Dark riders have two AP shots each which combined with feigned flight and march and shoot abilities, allow then to bait and shoot and frustrate opponents. 
9. Cold one knights. The extra armour save and S4 or cold ones and the knights amkes them superior to on a points per model basis the high elf cav. When run with master on cold one and dreadlord on cold one or peg nearby, they overcome stupidity and become one of the best cav units in the game. 
10. Cloaks. The ability of masters, dreadlords and corsairs to have cloaks gives them an extra +1 AS in combat and +2 AS to shooting. This makes it possible to get to a 1+ AS or a master or dreadlord not possible for a similar high elf character. 

Essentially, dark elves, except for special infantry, have superior choices on a points per model basis and more flexible options that allow the army to deal with more threats and survive a heavy shooting army better than high elves. The cost per model of high elves limits the sizes of the units and number of units and the relative lack of choices for fast attack, gives high elf armies fewer options to deal with hordes and gun lines. For example, dark elf spearmen cost one-third less than high elf spearmen and repeater crossbowmen equal archers with better armour and two shots to one such that they will win a shootout on a points per model basis.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Wood Elves excel at 1200. L3 lifecaster on eagle with dispel scroll, hail of doom arrow bsb on elven steed, 4x5 glade riders, 2x3 warhawk riders, and 2 great eagles.

Blood and glory - has 7 points for a break limit of 2, cannot be caught (28 bow shots a turn after 18/20" march), forest strider, with a last turn combined charge.

Ive lost something insane like 11 models in 7 games thanks to lifebloom, regen, and regrowth and generally being awesome.

Using etc rules, Im getting comfortable 16-4 and 18-2 wins.

Definately not a beginners army and doesnt scale well at 2400.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Wood Elves can be competitive, but struggle unless played by an expert. I love Woodies but am really upset with GW not issuing a new army book yet given how bad the Wood Elf lore is and the limits of the army competitively. Hero level mages are stuck with Athel Loren (Wood Elf) lore and the Lord level mage is somewhat expensive but does have access to Lores of Life and Beasts. The core infantry (glade guard and eternal guard with highborn) are too expensive points wise for what they do and are stuck at S3. The lord (highborn) and hero (noble) lack access to decent mundane armour saves, and the Noble BSB loses his longbow, cannot carry a shield, and cannot choose magical items (many of our tourneys lift these restrictions on the BSB and allow the Noble BSB to be equiped like a Noble in general). Finally, with the elimination of Dogs of War, the army has only one viable rare selection, the Great Eagle which only has two attacks (limiting its ability to take out war machines and light units/chaff). 

The army has the potential with the glade guard longbow rules (S4 at short range of 15" or less, and 30" range), the eternal guard rules (5+ AS, two hand weapons if in base contact and extra rank of supporting attacks) and no move and shoot penalty. Dryads are great but need large forests on the table and are skirmishers, meaning that the have a hard time winning against larger, cheaper per model, steadfast units unless in large forests. Treemen are great but the flammable rule makes them vulnerable to flaming attacks, as is the case with treekin (which are slightly overpriced but good with S5, T5 and 3 wounds each). 

ETC comp rules really balance the game for Woodies and nerf Dark Elves, but the poster is from California, so unlikely to follow ETC rules and more likely to have limited restrictions (ban certain special characters like Teclis and nerf or ban certain items like folding fortress and Book of Hoeth) that makes High Elves a much weaker army compare with dark elves.


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

I'm in agreeance with Olderplayer here.

Dark Elves are quite good. Their magic phase can border on the abusive side. The monsters are insanely good for their price. Specials are all good, even the chariot that is the best in game. Core serves it's purpose, and corsairs can actually do some work.

the magic items are insanely good.

As far as Comping in California? Dark Elves tend to comp low (bad) as most armies have all or 90% of the tricks.

Wood Elves tend to comp mid to high (softer/ good) as no matter what they take, it requires precision to handle well. 

I've seen a lot of VERY good high elf players do well. But one mistake or bad phase , just luck, can end any chances.


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## kain1989 (Dec 1, 2009)

dark elves are the most competitive of elves. They have cheap reliable core, excellent shooting, and almost every unit is playable. In my humble opinion, the most worthless dark elf unit is the 2nd unit of corsairs. (because it can't take the frenzy banner like the 1st unit of corsairs.) combine with power of darkness, sacrificial dagger, and hydras, you have a serious damage potential.

High elves can be seen on paper as better than dark elves but lack cheap troops. Sure you always get rerolls, but when you're a strength three spearman that costs 12 points a model, you seriously limit yourself. I will say that teclis does level the playing field.

Wood elves on the other hand are handsdown the least competetive of the three. they have expensive troops, poor damage output, and a serious problem with the step up rule. 

My main fantasy army is wood elves, and I actually won my league division with them. If you want to run wood elves, (Everybody loves tree dwellers that hate everybody else!) I'd suggest mobile army like Vaz said for small games. I usually play 2500, and I win with a combo of glade guard, tree kin, 2 treeman, a lv 4 life wizard, and dryads. I use warhawk riders for redirection. 

the real problem with wood elves is that they are extremely unforgiving, and are very easy to tailor against. although I've gotten pretty good at guessing which unit has the flaming banner. (funny thing to do is run a lord on stag with dragonbane and crown of command and watch them do nothing for the rest of the game) With wood elves, everything has to be expendable, there is no viable deathstar, you have to accept that you will lose things, the trick is keeping them cheap enough that it doesn't matter.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I do reasonably well playing the 8th edition game as opposed to the 6th/7th edition where they were near godly, going full block of stubborn 5+ ward saved eternal guard with teleport to treesurfed wood on the other side of the board.

Consider Curse of Anraheir and Potion of Strength Dawnspear highborn. -2 to hit, t4 likely from wildform, 5+/5++ from harp and then lifebloom to heal characters, regrowth to heal unit and ap banner.

When an enemy spends 3-4 turns closing with it (after losing a load of models thanks to curse and charging through a forest), you then teleport to the treesurfed forest where the dryads and treeman help with the refused flank, while eagles, glade riders, and flaming s4 move and fire archers rip chunks out of hydras. Just a shame that they don't benefit from ap banner bsb. Might consider taking just a huge unit of those for watchtower and call of the hunting them into the tower first turn. (along with a dawnspear fighter and beastweaver).

I just hope they stay as wood elves, countering enemy strengths without matching the enemy. And despite being the exact opposite of what I just said, Stag Knights, literally, Wild Riders riding the awesome updated Storm of Magic Great Stags. Although certainly needs a points drop or rules upgrade to compare with mournfangs and demigryphs.


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## kain1989 (Dec 1, 2009)

I like the beastweaver, but since I run so many treekin and treeman Life is brilliant. I've run the dawnspear, with glittering scales, in a unit of wild riders. it's drastically overpriced, but if you hit most units, they'll bounce right off of you.

honestly my main formula is to spread out, and once the get within short range, I pepper them with glade guard. then when they charge, I either flee, or feed them a 120 point unit of glade guard. I almost feel bad when an opponents deathstar only kills 1 or 2 100 point units.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Try Dawnspear and Curse of Anraheir in EG block in woods with hidden way bsb, lose 1/3 of the unit thanks to terrain, dawnspear with potion of strength (s7) at i7, and you have enemies then hitting on 6s. Thats an entire unit, not just the character. Which also benefits from 5++.

Having fun with 2500 Orion Wild Rider msu list, but missing the lord caster a lot.


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## kain1989 (Dec 1, 2009)

that sounds good, but I don't have any eternal guard. I'm sure no one would mind a proxy in a fun game though. That honestly sounds like the only way to make them worthwile. especially if you can get Wyssans wild form on them.

I love orion. He has an awesome statline, great magic items, and a bolt thrower! sadly he only has a 5+ agianst non-magical attacks. he's great in bigger games when you can afford him and a life wizard.

But since I derailed this topic towards wood elves. My real advice to the OP is to read the fluff, look at the models. All the elves have the same inherent flaws and somewhat similar play styles, so choose the one that you like the most. Even if you get the most competive army out there, you won't have much fun if you don't like the models or the fluff.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Yeah a 4k Orion list is outclassed. So... you have 20 wild riders? #drops 15 khorne knights/dragon princes/mournfangs/cold one knights/demigryphs/reiksguard/big un savage orc boars/wights/vampire knights/kotr/fiends of slaanesh

At least if we get the stag updates from Storm of magic (and it made into a unit with a semblance of armour and shield for at least a 3+) we might have an msu heavy hitting fast cav unit.

Right fuck it planning a Homebrew 8th edition wood elves.


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