# Garro and Loken post-Isstvan?



## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Yeah the spelling of Isstvan might be wrong but my wondering/theory is this. Garro escaped the massacre of Isstvan III and is now "the legion of one" and most probably the first generation of Grey Knights. Dan Abnett have confirmed Loken is still alive. Is it possible that Garro might travel to Issvan and look for other survivors and find him amidst the rumbles of the destroyed planet?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Perfectly plausable given the release of _Oath of Moment_, in which Garro is known to have travelled the galaxy to recruit individuals under the decree of Malcador.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Aye i could easily see it happening. Possibly along with Tarvitz, because if Loken managed to survive, Tarvitz should easily have been able to, especially with the underground hanger/bunker they found and sent Rylanor to guard.

I've long got over the issue of Loken being alive, people can keep complaining but at the end of the day you've got to accept it. Im just interested now to know how Loken will be found and what his fate will be. And also want to see what they do with Rylanor and any other survivors


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Perfectly plausable given the release of _Oath of Moment_, in which Garro is known to have travelled the galaxy to recruit individuals under the decree of Malcador.


Exactly my thought. Macladore mentions that he is supposed to pick up Astartes from both loyalist and traitor Legions and Im not sure if they know Loken and the others on Issvan is loyalist or not. :grin:



Angel of Blood said:


> Aye i could easily see it happening. Possibly along with Tarvitz, because if Loken managed to survive, Tarvitz should easily have been able to, especially with the underground hanger/bunker they found and sent Rylanor to guard.
> 
> I've long got over the issue of Loken being alive, people can keep complaining but at the end of the day you've got to accept it. Im just interested now to know how Loken will be found and what his fate will be. And also want to see what they do with Rylanor and any other survivors


I was highly taken by surprise when Torgaddon died and Loken was left to die there, and this was before I got into reading any fluff I could I find out. Im truly waiting for a continuation as well, HH-team truly holds back on releasing information about upcoming projects except of 2 books and 1 audio.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

I feel it would be weird if Garro/ Loken were to be involved in the grey knights, neither of them are psykers, I was under the impression that was a prerequisite,
I would sooner think something like a legion d'etrangers except with loyalist


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

If Tarvitz is the EC I thought he was killed by Lucius.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

When/where was Loken confirmed to be alive? Been busy as of late so must of missed a lot.


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## Dînadan (Mar 7, 2009)

piemelke said:


> I feel it would be weird if Garro/ Loken were to be involved in the grey knights, neither of them are psykers, I was under the impression that was a prerequisite)


Maybe that came later? Or maybe they're lateant psykers? Alternatively, remember after the Council of Nikea, all Librarians were sent back to the rank and file, so maybe both were Librarians/training to be Librarians when Nikea happened.


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## Bloody Mary (Nov 6, 2009)

piemelke said:


> I feel it would be weird if Garro/ Loken were to be involved in the grey knights, neither of them are psykers, I was under the impression that was a prerequisite,


Garro had visions. It's either the Emperor granting him his insight (but Garro had them before he converted to Emperorism) or he was a psyker.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

well let's put it this way in non of the HH books featuring Loken and psyker abilities were described, 
for Garro I do not knwo for sure, at least based upon the book he does not seem to be a full blown psyker,
latent psykers, naaah too far fedged,
it would just seem akward from the grey knight books I get the impression that they are pretty developed psykers, now if Mopeth (spelling) from flight of the E , was involved that would be different,
my best guess is some sort of mossad hunting old nazi's, would be cool as well.
hey maybe like the unglourious bastards, even cooler,


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Tarvitz wasn't killed by Lucius, Solomon Demeter was.

Abnett had confimred Loken is still alive in interviews


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

piemelke said:


> I feel it would be weird if Garro/ Loken were to be involved in the grey knights, neither of them are psykers, I was under the impression that was a prerequisite,
> I would sooner think something like a legion d'etrangers except with loyalist


It's more probable that they were involved in the creation of the Inquisition, rather than the Grey Knights specifically. Primarily because, as you point out, they were not psykers.

Aside from that the inception of the Grey Knights chapter is referenced as occuring during the Second Founding, which didn't occur until after the Scouring. So still many years after the end of the Heresy. Which also doesn't support Garro and Loken becoming Grey Knights.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I'm more inclined to believe they found the Inquisition aswell, even if they are Astartes. Malcador pretty much dead on says it when he meets them.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

It might be that the Grey Knights are Founded on the advice of Garro _et al_. Possibly, because of what they see as they travel throughout the galaxy in the unfolding of the HH, these refugees fromt he traitor Legions could come to the conclusion that not only should the Decree of Nikae be repealed but the Imperium needs to bring together a force of psykers to combat the daemonic.
That could be one explanation for why the GK are a 2nd Founding Chapter, rather than instituted with whatever forces could be brought to bear during the Heresy; noone thought that such an organisation was needed until circumstances showed them it was.
It might also be that some of the Astartes recruited are anti-Xenos specialists. After all, we know that when the first Human galactic empire started to crumble they were besest by Xenos who were thought to be allies. So, with Humanity in turmoil, the nascent Inquis is already looking in two directions- protection from Chaos and protection from those Xenos that would try to take advantage of a weakened Humanity. Then again, maybe not. It will be fun finding out!

GFP


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## Broadsword 1986 (Nov 17, 2010)

Yes, I too believe that Loken and Tarvitz (and perhaps even ancient Rylanor) formed the basis or at least were a part of the Inquisition. I seriously doubt that they were involved with the Grey Knights though. Them being latent psykers just doesn't fit well in the story I think. Perhaps they were involved in forming the first Deathwatch teams.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Broadsword 1986 said:


> Yes, I too believe that Loken and Tarvitz (and perhaps even ancient Rylanor) formed the basis or at least were a part of the Inquisition. I seriously doubt that they were involved with the Grey Knights though. Them being latent psykers just doesn't fit well in the story I think. Perhaps they were involved in forming the first Deathwatch teams.


Naw, the Deathwatch didn't come into existence until well after the Heresy.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I think the grey knights may of come from that thousand son librarian imo.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Huh? Which Thousand Son librarian?


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Angel of Blood said:


> Huh? Which Thousand Son librarian?


The one out of Battle for the Abyss, or did he get owned? I thought he survived.

Here he is Mhotep


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> The one out of Battle for the Abyss, or did he get owned? I thought he survived.


Didn't read it. Lapsed into unconsciousness at every attempt.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

I was pretty sure he died, never know nowadays, you can ask Loken,
I do not think the empirium needed Garro to explain them that an army of uber-loyal psyker marines might be interesting,
the inquisition makes a lot more sense or again the ingourious bastards


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Nah Mhotep is toes up to the sky


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## Krymson86 (Nov 9, 2010)

I'd just like to go on the record and say this. Ancient Rylanor is fucking badass. I mean, if you think about it, without him agreeing with Tarvitz and also being suspicious about the operation and re-assigning Tarvitz to an on-ship position. Without Rylanor doing that, there may never have been a message relayed to Nathaniel Garro etc. etc. 

Also, Rylanor just shreds dudes on Istvaan. 

If Loken and Tarvitz are indeed discovered to be alive I'd love to see them along with Rylanor recruited to what is presumably Nathaniel Garro's new chapter and see them tear some traitors to pieaces.


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## Zhou The Maladjusted (Nov 25, 2010)

Whatever happened to Ancient Rylanor? I don't remember him having any kind of interaction in _Galaxy in Flames _after the virus bombing, and in _Fulgrim_ I believe it was mentioned that he had skulked away into the catacombs, or something along those lines, and nothing more.

Also, I think Loken died on Istvaan. He got beat up pretty well by Abbadon, had a building collapse on him, and then got bombed. Space Marine or not, it's not likely he survived.

Tarvitz and some of the other loyalists might have survived, considering they had some shelter. Chances are slim though.


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## texcuda (Aug 17, 2010)

Which DN is mentioned in the HH series as being impervious minus the small crack in his armor that lets the virus in during the bombing of Istvaan. I thought that was Rylanor....if not, ignore my senseless rambling.


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## Anfo (Jul 17, 2009)

texcuda said:


> Which DN is mentioned in the HH series as being impervious minus the small crack in his armor that lets the virus in during the bombing of Istvaan. I thought that was Rylanor....if not, ignore my senseless rambling.


The dreadnought you are thinking of is Huron-Fal. He's part of the Death Guard. In Flight of the Eisenstein page 222.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Because of the Emperor's stance on Librarians and psykers on general, I'm not sure that the leaders of the Imperium, post-Heresy, would have known just how useful they could be. I imagine that as the forces of Chaos would have demonstrated all of the worst excesses of sorcery and warp-magiks (which I hold to be different from magic, the 'k' making it all eeeeeevil, like) and likely would have pushed the High Lords and new Chapter Masters to further distance themselves from anyone who could actually throw warp power around.
For someone who has been there on the front lines all the way through the HH, and probably the Scouring, an Astartes who turned his back on his brothers and Primarch because he could see how they were falling to damnation, standing with barely a handful of others when it would have been so much easier and safer to just go along with what everyone else was doing. It would take a man chosen by Malcador and the God-Emepror himself to protect the Imperium. 
However, he may to turn to those in charge and tell them that the Imperium needed to take advantage of its psykers, not as just astropaths, but as weapons and protectors, able to take the fight to the daemonic allies of the traitors and win. Well, that's what I think anyway.

GFP


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## texcuda (Aug 17, 2010)

Anfo said:


> The dreadnought you are thinking of is Huron-Fal. He's part of the Death Guard. In Flight of the Eisenstein page 222.


Thx unfortunately I do not own any of the books, I'm forced to check them out from the local library due to financial reasons and so referencing the books I have read becomes increasingly difficult as time passes. 

I must agree Ancient Rylanor seemed like a very honorable soul and his monologue to Tarvitz during his reassigning Tarvitz gives insight to his thoughts that things aren't as they seem but until he recieves incontravertible evidence he is following orders over "theories".


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Zhou The Maladjusted said:


> Also, I think Loken died on Istvaan. He got beat up pretty well by Abbadon, had a building collapse on him, and then got bombed. Space Marine or not, it's not likely he survived.


I would have agreed with you, unfortunately however _Abnett_ has confirmed Loken has survived and will feature in the Heresy series in the future.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Zhou The Maladjusted said:


> Whatever happened to Ancient Rylanor? I don't remember him having any kind of interaction in _Galaxy in Flames _after the virus bombing, and in _Fulgrim_ I believe it was mentioned that he had skulked away into the catacombs, or something along those lines, and nothing more.
> 
> Also, I think Loken died on Istvaan. He got beat up pretty well by Abbadon, had a building collapse on him, and then got bombed. Space Marine or not, it's not likely he survived.
> 
> Tarvitz and some of the other loyalists might have survived, considering they had some shelter. Chances are slim though.


Rylanor was mentioned as having set off deep into the depths of the Precentor Palace to guard something, an underground hanger or something. Loken has been confirmed to be alive by Abnett. So if Loken can survive the bombardment out on the surface despite being crushed and badly wounded, then you can bet Rylanor did in a deep underground hanger/bunker, and you would logically assume Tarvitz, Vipus and the other survivors would have headed down their too. 

I can see Vipus and Tarvitz heading out to look for Loken before the bombardment begins, finding him and taking him down to where Rylanor is guarding and sitting out the bombardment. Then Garro or someone will end up returning to rescue them. One of the few scenarios i can think of that allows Loken to survive


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I honestly don't mind that Loken survived, he was definitely the most developed of sub characters in my mind and Garro has only come close to replicating him but not close enough.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

Common guys, this is not Dallas where people turn up again out of the shower after having being dead for years,
Loken died, in that book bringing him back is lame opportunism even if he is a cool character


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

It's never confirmed that he actually dies, it just says it goes black.


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

Loken is alive? AWESOME!!!
I was really upset when I thought he died.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

piemelke said:


> Common guys, this is not Dallas where people turn up again out of the shower after having being dead for years,
> Loken died, in that book bringing him back is lame opportunism even if he is a cool character


 
Again, Abnett has confirmed he is alive. And true, it never explicitly states Loken is dead, suffers massive injuries yes, but he is alive nonetheless. Like i've said before, i see Tarvitz rescuing him and taking him to the underground hanger/bunker


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## Marcoos (Sep 26, 2010)

Does anyone have a link to where Abnett has confirmed Loken survives?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Watch the interview there, skip too 3:56

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44300


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

What I got out from FotE is that Garro could be a part of the first generations of the GK, not because he would be a psyker as they were still disliked by the Emperor, but that when all others were corrupted within his Legion, he stayed pure and not only that, he escaped and survived.

That was what made him semi-suiteble for the future GK. But then again, you guys have much good things to go against that. Inquisition in general sounds pretty reasonable. 

Edit: Frakk I never saw this much replies without my help in it coming. XD


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

I realise dan said Loken is still alive and the book does not explicitly say he is dead, 
that does not change the fact that it is pretty lame, at least for me it would have been some much stronger if he were to be dead,


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Aye and many agree with you. The deaths of Loken and Tarrik fully sealed Horus turn and reformation of the legion, killing off the biggest opposition within his own legion and being able to move forward with his plans. Although i think people need to stop complaining about it now and get over it. He's alive, he's going to return and no amount of complaining or saying how cheesy it is (even if it is) is not going to change that fact. I now just look forward to seeing how thye bring him back in and what happens from there. Hell Loken could be another contender for the lowering of Horus shields or running into the fight between Horus and the Emperor to be obliterated, unlikely though


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

sounds fair


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## Marcoos (Sep 26, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> Watch the interview there, skip too 3:56
> 
> http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44300


Thanking you :biggrin:


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Rylanor was mentioned as having set off deep into the depths of the Precentor Palace to guard something, an underground hanger or something. Loken has been confirmed to be alive by Abnett. So if Loken can survive the bombardment out on the surface despite being crushed and badly wounded, then you can bet Rylanor did in a deep underground hanger/bunker, and you would logically assume Tarvitz, Vipus and the other survivors would have headed down their too.
> 
> I can see Vipus and Tarvitz heading out to look for Loken before the bombardment begins, finding him and taking him down to where Rylanor is guarding and sitting out the bombardment. Then Garro or someone will end up returning to rescue them. One of the few scenarios i can think of that allows Loken to survive


Actually, with evidence from the book, we can pretty much say tarvitz and company are dead. Look on pg. 405 of Galaxy in Flames at the top of the page. It says, "The loyalists did not throw themselves into cover or run for shelter - there was little point." This was when Horus bombed the Choral City when he pulled his remaining forces off the planet.


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## Kickback (May 9, 2008)

DeathJester921 said:


> Actually, with evidence from the book, we can pretty much say tarvitz and company are dead. Look on pg. 405 of Galaxy in Flames at the top of the page. It says, "The loyalists did not throw themselves into cover or run for shelter - there was little point." This was when Horus bombed the Choral City when he pulled his remaining forces off the planet.


I suppose it still could be read two ways, they didn't do that because they knew they were going to die, or, they didn't do that because they were already in effective cover.
I think until it's explicitly stated they're dead I'd keep an open mind


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

Kickback said:


> I suppose it still could be read two ways, they didn't do that because they knew they were going to die, or, they didn't do that because they were already in effective cover.
> I think until it's explicitly stated they're dead I'd keep an open mind


Eh, I suppose. Always good to keep an open mind, but I still believe they're dead. With what it said in the book about Horus being thorough just after the quote I took from the book, it leaves little hope for them to still be among the living. I guess we'll see in the future.


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