# What regiments should you never take in an army?



## ChaosDefilerofUlthuan (Jan 25, 2011)

Which units should you never take in a certain army & also, can anyone counter ones people have posted?
Personally I dont know why you'd use spawn but, that's all I know.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Chaos Spawn are very good distractions for their points actually, and you should have some rare points left over for them. If you want something truly worthless, just look at Forsaken. However, I think there's some that are worse than them, probably for Brettonians or Wood Elves.


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## ChaosDefilerofUlthuan (Jan 25, 2011)

OMG, I completely forgot about forsaken. They are truly useless


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

For VC's, you should never take in any kind of even semi-competitive list;
a) More than 1 Thrall because they're blaitantly average fighters yet also expensive wizards and you'll always end up wasting one part of that package!

b) More than one 20-30 strong skeleton unit w/full command. It's a bunker and an extra banner for break point games, and that's all their good for right now because they're 2x the cost of TK skellies, who also have better stat lines to boot!

c) Zombies!!! Plus Corpse Carts, Dire Wolves & Bat Swarms. 4pts for the game's worst model is a bad joke now.
The other choices don't count towards core requirements in an army that's easily at least 30% over-costed on most units...

d) Wraiths. Magic ends them easily and they're a pain to heal.

e) Only a single Vargulf. If you take 1, you're better off taking 2 so they can team-up and/or threaten ranked units.

f) Blood Knights when not usign a Bloodbus. They're only viable in a tourny setting if you add the regen banner wight king & a fighty Lord w/blood drinker, hatred + fury...
Anything less and they're just retardedly expensive 2+ save heavy cav.

g) A combat general!!! For obvious reasons, no tourny-worthy VC list has a general who sits on the front lines...



And people wonder why VC players are crying for some new (un)life after having to play the same fucking list all the time for over a year now?!
Boring as shit army if you want it to actually compete at all... But actually damn fun if you don't care about only ball-stomping everyone all the time!

Cheers!


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

Well in experience with the Tomb Kings that there is one unit that is at the bottom of their units, the Ushabti. And it's not just because they've reduced their 6 Strength to 4 but also because there are far more better units in the Special Units to choose from at pretty much the same price.

I've also had other players complain about Carrion, Tomb Swarms and Tomb Heralds but I find them useful in their own ways. Carrion are cheap flying distraction units and decent expendable flank blocks. I watched a TK/Skaven game once where the TK player used four Carrion to block a Doom Wheel for three turns (with some Liche heals of course) during which time it was being shot at by arrows and magic from a safe distance, and by the time the Wheel crushed the last bird it had only one Wound left that was quickly claimed by a Hierotitan. The Tomb Swarms are the other great distraction unit. They won't win much but they can tie up artillery and lone wizards for a little while. Finally there is the Tomb Herald. Now in smaller pt armies I completely agree with keeping him at home but in larger pt armies he can be useful depending on how you play your King or Princes. If you make use of Tomb Star-a King/Prince in a big block of Tomb Guard-they can be a very useful addition to the group, providing another magical banner to the group, the ability to take hits for the King/Prince and reducing the extra casualties that TK units suffer. For 85 pts plus banner cost, that's not a bad deal in larger armies.


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## Deathypoo (Jun 27, 2011)

TK Skeletal Horsemen? I unfortunately have a block of 15 of them that I just don't see using in any kind of competitive army.

Other than that I agree with Akatsuki... I want to find a place for Ushabti because they have cool models and they aren't bad in game, but other choices beat them out.

For my other armies... O&G has a place for nearly everything except, ironically, basic goblins. Night goblins every time.

Dark Elves = Shades. Way too overpriced for what they do imho, I don't think I've ever fielded a unit of shades and I've had my Dark Elves for ~18 years.


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

Actually I like to use the Horsemen-both types-as support for my Chariot flank and to protect my mounted Liche. I forgot mention them alongside the Carrion, Swarms and Heralds as units that at first seem useless but be can fielded in useful ways. If you make use of a good size Chariot Hammer Flank a unit or two of Horsemen with a Liche is a great support addition to it.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Ultimate winner of this award: OK *yhetees*. Totally and utterly useless. Almost twice as many points as a basic bull with very little to promote them: +1M, +1S, magical weapons and -1 to hit for anyone in base contact, but for that you lose AP and cannot be the target of any gut magic buffs, cannot be joined by characters and can't have a musician.
They used to be fairly useful in 7th when charging meant they hit first and avoided getting hit back, were likely only to be hit by models in B2B, pursued 3D6 and could cross any terrain. But now their extra movement means almost nothing, the lack of musician hurts their mobility, their price means they'll never be in large units and their crap initiative means they'll normally die long before they get to attack
... all in all they didn't do well out of the 7-8th ed rule changes.
/rant

Other random units I would never put in my armies:

OK- gnoblar trappers (best models in the game though), hunters, leadbelchers

WE- nothing; I probably use the 'weak' units that others would avoid as my mainstays, and my army is very successful. One SC and style of army you should never see in 8th is Drycha and forest spirit armies.... they don't work anymore.

HE- swordmasters (i think they are outclassed by white lions), dragon princes (again outclassed by silverhelms), RBTs.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Tim/Steve said:


> Ultimate winner of this award: OK *yhetees*. Totally and utterly useless...


Surely Zombies still top them? Yhetees may be bad, but at least they're not WS1/I1/T2 'Unstable' units who are ment to hold stuff up?!!

I mean come on - Skaven Slaves, Gnoblars & Night Gobbos kick the living crap out of zombies who might only kill 2-3 in return and then have another handfull of them crumble away?!!
And all this awsome suck'tasticness for 4pts each!!!:russianroulette:

Hell, even raising zombies is a bad idea most of the time because they still give up 50vp's every time you raise a new unit.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Yeah, zombie blocks suck badly... but I wouldn't say the same about raised zombies. Sure they'll lose every fight they ever get into but they are going to stay there until they die. Not breaking is hugely helpful when all you want is a unit to hold up an enemy for a few turns.... there are 2 reasons I never use gnoblars in my OK army: first is that they are too slow to be in useful areas when needed (which raised zombies ignore... as long as you have the magic) and second if my general isn't within 12" of the gnoblars then they're totally useless (Ld5 doesn't go far).

Now skellies are something I never understand.... expensive, rubbish and just plainly outclassed by other troops (and can't be raised on a whim).


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Tim/Steve said:


> Yeah, zombie blocks suck badly... but I wouldn't say the same about raised zombies. Sure they'll lose every fight they ever get into but they are going to stay there until they die. Not breaking is hugely helpful when all you want is a unit to hold up an enemy for a few turns....


But the thing is, even raising them is too much effort... For those PD, I can just use vanhel's instead on a ghoul horde or grave guard unit and get ASF + re-rolls. Or I can use the Staff of Damnation and get a 'free' round of combat, or I can cast worthwhile magic from say the lore of light or beasts or whatever...
My invo's are much better utilised healing the main units as well, not building zombies!

As for blocking/holding up? Zombies can't plain and simple. You need 50+ at least to last more than a turn they're that fucking useless!
- WS1 means fear is 100% pointless for them because even on 4's they still take a tone of hits...
- I1 means pretty much everything goes before them...
- S2 means they need 5's to wound against even 'basic core'
- T2 means most everything kills them on 3's at worst!
- Unstable means you lose twice as many!!!



Tim/Steve said:


> Now skellies are something I never understand.... expensive, rubbish and just plainly outclassed by other troops (and can't be raised on a whim).


Skellies were great in 7th overall because they'd wear you down and provided good SCR.

In 8th they're twice what they should cost, buy VC's are luckier because we can use things like beast & light augments to make them hit decently!
Plus, they're the only core unit that can carry a banner for blood and glory games...


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Saurus Cavalry. Expensive, and just don't hit hard enough, and can't take a hit like Lizardmen infantry. That, and 99% of heavy cavalry is shit anyway.


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