# Versus Tau Broadsides



## Galahad

*Versus: Week One*​
This week's chosen target is the mighty Tau Broadside.

With a 2+ save, 2 wounds and T4 it is a tough nut to crack. Tougher if it has Shield Drones with it.

For weapons, it has the single scariest gun ever, the fearsome Railgun. S10, AP1, 72" range and, if that weren't bad enough, it's twin-linked!

The suit is also armed with either TL Smart Missile Systems, which fires four S5 missiles and can be fired indirectly...albeit at a relatively short range... or it could have a twinlinked Plasma Rifle, which is S6 AP2 and rapid fire.

Thankfully they cannot fire both weapons at once unless they use their only upgrade slot to include a Multitracker, but you rarely see this because Advanced Stabilization Systems are far more common, allowing the Broadside to move and fire its weapons (Gives it Slow and Purposeful)

Tatgeting Array is also a common upgrade, giving the suit BS4 (with its twin-linked weapon this means it;s going to hit, a lot)

It is relatively weak in melee, with its low WS and initiative, but it does have a high strength.

They can be fielded solo or in unit of up to three suits. Unlike other tau battlesuits, the Broadside lacks the infamous Jed-Pack, so it's a relatively static unit. One suit may be upgraded to leader, granting it better battlesuit armory access (and allowing it to take hard-wired versions of some support systems, such as a hard-wired multitracker that doesn't take up a slot)

They're a heavy support slot for Tau, and fairly expensive so you';ll rarely encounter more than one unit of them.

So...how do you deal with Broadsides?


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## bl0203

I play BA so I guess volume of fire from rapid fire Tac Squads to cover my VAS Marines w/Thammer and two meltas as they charge up the flank. I don't think I would use high strength heavy weapons because invariably they're going to have shield drones to squash your instant death along with their invulnerable save. Additionally smart players will have them in cover. 

I would rather save my heavy weapons to fire for the Skimmers that are bound to be running around the board. I guess it goes back to ASSAULT Shootie units, and SHOOT Assault Units. Just hug cover and hope your troopers get there in one piece.


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## Jacobite

As with most problems I'd go with a GKGM or even just a BC deepstriking on top of them. NFM will slice through that stuff like nobodies business and then I'd move onto taking out his other static firepower. The GM/BC doesn't even really need a Bodyguard to do this.

For straight IG its a little harder, I'd probably go with a Special Weapon squad with Sniper Rifles or Ratlings. However it is very hit and miss. I havn't faced a Tau army with straight IG so I'm not sure.


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## Culler

The only easy way to wipe out broadsides is with concentrated lascannon fire, as if they were a tank. You'll have to get through 2 shield drones if the tau player is worth his salt before you actually start killing suits, so this can be a difficult proposition. Any long-range anti-infantry fire is not going to inflict enough wounds to get through a 2+ save very efficiently. Deepstrikers may have a chance of getting to them (there is significant risk of other tau being in the area that will kill you or you may scatter into unless your foe is completely deepstriking/mechtau). Fast skimmer transports also have a good shot because there's a good chance that 3 glancing hits won't take your skimmer down. If you have 2 such skimmers, more the better. The strongest thing for space marines is to hit them with a bunch of vindicators, but that's not really an option for most. Another good choice is deepstriking combi-plasma terminators into rapid fire range. Risky, but they should be able to tear through broadsides if the gambit succeeds. I wouldn't expect deepstriking melee troops to last until their next turn when they actually get to move after deepstriking a high priority target into the range of all the tau guns.

With my orks I don't take vehicles so I just laugh at their uselessness :taunt: until they get within 24" for their SMS (which is, admittedly, very strong because a squad of 3 will get 12 shots that don't require LoS). Warbikers make broadsides wet themselves. If they use their SMS, they have to deal with 5 toughness and a 4+ save. If they use their railguns, they still have to deal with a 4+ cover save to kill a 25 point unit. And warbikers with good deployment will be in their face by turn 2. Unfortunately while they are resistant to the ubiquitous str 5 ap 5 tau gun profile, warbikers are weak to missile pods, which many tau have in spades. Snikrot kommandos also tear broadsides to shreds with volume of attacks and burna power attacks.

With my tau it's a good old fashioned railgun duel probably augmented by deepstriking fireknife suits. It's not pretty on either side.

Broadsides are an extremely tough nut to crack, especially if they're properly defended by other tau (such as a deathrain/fireknife crisis team and fire warriors). An intact CC squad of any type gives them a solid pounding. A very fast army can get past their defenses with units intact, but space marines in general are too slow, even in rhinos (which are vulnerable to getting missile podded to death or killed by the multitude of str 5 weaponry even with smoke launchers.) A biker force can get into them and resist counterfire if they turboboost but there has to be a lot of them to resist the high volume of fire focused entirely on them.


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## Galahad

As a blood Angels player I've found that there's few targets a well-armed VAS can't crack. A pair of meltaguns and at least one powerfist can do a lot of damage, assuming we don't get shot to shit with the SMS before we close in. It's less of a threat to marines than orks since we still get our saves, but that's still a lot of firepower coming up over some wall or something.

On general principles, without any particular army in mind, I'd still focus on assault over shooting at them. Unless you have reliable S10 guns, nothing in most arsenals can instant-kill them, and the presence of shield drones is a deterrant. Meanwhile, you can't outrange them and they can always take cover and hit you with missiles.

Getting a unit close enough to assault them will be tricky, but if they have any kind of power weapon, it should pay off.


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## killer_sheep

How about wolf scouts? 6 of them with 2 power weapons a meltagun and a pack leader 
with a thunder hammer is around 160 points (cant remember of the top of my head) the broadsides are usually with in 6 to 10 inchs from the board edge anyway so just bring on the scouts in reserve and let them run riot


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## Galahad

Not a bad idea.

Chaos Chosen could be useful too. Infiltrate enough meltaguns and powerfists in and they can cause some havoc.


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## killer_sheep

If you have a few deff copptas in a ork army with buzz saws, scout move them, you might not win the first turn but if you do happy hunting.


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## JubJub

Deep strike termies and kill with an assualt cannon, rending is so awesome...


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## Culler

Galahad said:


> Unless you have reliable S10 guns, nothing in most arsenals can instant-kill them, and the presence of shield drones is a deterrant.


Actually, they're toughness 4, so lascannons can instakill them if you can get through the shield drones.



JubJub said:


> Deep strike termies and kill with an assualt cannon, rending is so awesome...


A full broadsides squad has 8 wounds with 2 4++ saves and all 2+ saves. Unless you get all 8 shots to rend the terminators really aren't going to make much of a dent. On average they'll get 1, maybe 2 rends (which the broadsides get a 4++ save against) and even if you've knocked off a few drones the broadsides still have 2 wounds each. The rest of the shots will likely get saved against. CSM terminators with combi-meltas or combi-plasmas will be much more effective. Worst of all those termies will likely not survive the counterfire from deepstriking within rapid fire range of that many tau guns (especially from the plasma rifle armed suits and the railguns of the broadsides themselves).


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## Captain Galus

my scout snipers chew through those railsuits. sniper rifles are like lasguns...get enough of em firing and watch statistics work ^_^
also ive wiped out a unit of 2 plus shield drones in one shooting phase with my trusty devastator team- lascannons are a beautiful thing in skilled hands


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## thomas2

Captain Galus said:


> my scout snipers chew through those railsuits. sniper rifles are like lasguns...get enough of em firing and watch statistics work ^_^
> also ive wiped out a unit of 2 plus shield drones in one shooting phase with my trusty devastator team- lascannons are a beautiful thing in skilled hands


You realise you need about 28 sniper shots to kill each Broadside? A 5 man squad would take a whole game to kill one at a greater cost in points.
But true lascannon devastators/havocs scare my Broadsides.


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## Nightbringer416

with necrons it would be hq with veil teleport 15 warriors behind them rapid fire. 30 shots on 3+ = 20 hits 4+ wound = 10 wounds. I'll guess btwn 3-4 wounds out o that i'm not sure if the're fearless or not but thats a hell of a morale check after that.

or they can save them all which usually happens when i play against 2+ save units.


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## Galahad

Culler said:


> Actually, they're toughness 4, so lascannons can instakill them if you can get through the shield drones.


Duuuurr, I even said T4 in my opening post. I am dumb. <facepalm>
Please disregard my temporary brain fart :grin:



JubJub said:


> Deep strike termies and kill with an assualt cannon, rending is so awesome...





Culler said:


> A full broadsides squad has 8 wounds with 2 4++ saves and all 2+ saves. Unless you get all 8 shots to rend the terminators really aren't going to make much of a dent. On average they'll get 1, maybe 2 rends (which the broadsides get a 4++ save against) and even if you've knocked off a few drones the broadsides still have 2 wounds each. The rest of the shots will likely get saved against. CSM terminators with combi-meltas or combi-plasmas will be much more effective. Worst of all those termies will likely not survive the counterfire from deepstriking within rapid fire range of that many tau guns (especially from the plasma rifle armed suits and the railguns of the broadsides themselves).


Exactly. You're going to lose two or three terminators in the first return volley, guaranteed and that's just if he;s using SMS. If he armed them with plasma rifles, your terminators are screwed. 3 railgun shots and 6 plasma = dead termies.

Better to send a more expendable assault squad armed with a powerfist and some plasma (or meltas if you got 'em).


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## Ubiquitous

Hmmm, thinking about it, broadsides are a tough nut to crack. I would pepper them with some long range anti-infantry fire to kill of the gun drones first, then go after them with long range anti tank/deepstriking melta guns.


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## Galahad

It's not gun drones they usually pack with them, Ubi, it's Shield Drones (which in the company of Broadsides are T4 and 2+ save with a 4+ invul), so anti-infantry weapons are going to bounce off them just the same as the broadsides themselves


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## Ubiquitous

Damn, how'd I miss that? After all, I only played tau for about 2 years............
:headbutt:

Hmmm, that makes them even harder to kill. I'd say that a dedicated assault unit (assault marines, genestealers, wytches, harlequins) would be the best choice. Shooting the broadsides doesn't look like it's much of an option.


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## Galahad

Just have to live long enough to get into assault ;-)


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## wetware

Broadsides actually do very well in hand to hand due to their high save, high strength and good toughness, unless the opponent rends or has power weapons. There's also not really any excuse for your HtH unit to have not been peppered with SMS or tank shocked before they get to the broadsides. 

Because they're multi-wound models instakill is the way to go for shooting. It sounds as if you need to deny them targets as well as possible then use ordnance on them if you're an imperial army or if you happen to be SoB the exorcist would be optimal. Pulse Lasers and Harliquins for the Eldar (send in the invincible falcon!). DS Raveners for 'nids, or perhaps a carefully placed Lictor would do. (probably not...) Death Company would also be a good choice since they'd likely survive the missile barrage and have a good chance against any plasma rifle fire.

I'm sure there's other options out there, but that's what comes to mind for me.


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## Galahad

Good points, Wetware.
Though as a Blood Angel player I have an irrational fear of Railguns (they're about the only thing that'll make Mephiston run for cover), it's better to loose a couple of DC to railgun shots than to see tanks get vaped or Mephy turned into a bloody smear.


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## Frostbite

Ok, as the Tau player who loves to use Broadsides, I've got to point out that you cannot deal with them in a vacuum. Some people have mentioned it, but you usually have to get through Fire Warriors, suits and Kroot before even making it to the Broadsides. I have also noted many people specifying the use of fast units to get into hand to hand quickly. While Tau rightly fear those, without support they get focus fired. So, how do you get said fast assaulters into range where they can do something, and how do you deal with the Broadsides guardians?


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## Galahad

Excellent point, Frosty. All armies work best when they support each other, but Tau are the king of mutual support. 

A transport is ridiculous in the face of any kind of rail fire. Even a Land Raider wouldn't survive long.

Perhaps a combination of deep-striking and fast units, like dropping an assault squad in and then striking out of cover next turn? 

Likewise, pod-squads dropping in between the broadsides and their defenders, using the drop pods for cover.

Though I dislike the unreliability of reserve units. 

An assault heavy force like Blood Angels could just send several squads at them, use the regular assault teams to tie up nearby kroot and fire warriors while the Deathco or VAS plough ahead into the broadsides

As hard as they are to kill with shooting, properly supported they're going to be very hard to get to for assault.

Use of diversionary tactics and outmaneuvering might do well, but it's hard to outmaneuver Tau. Get the broadside's attention with some long range Laser fire in the hopes that they'll reposition, maybe using the terrain to herd them away from defenders. 

Likewise, you could attempt a risky gambit and try to lead them out of cover by moving a valuable tank or something out where they will need to move if they want to keep a bead on it. 

But that depends a lot on the composition of the board.


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## A Soporific

I field six sharphooting lascannon and some autocannon.

So, I use the old standard. Shoot it from cover.


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## Sons of Russ

I had a similiar conundrum the other day against a farsight list with 2 broadsides and a Railhead....

As shocking as it sounds, I use a BA list that doesnt have VAS or assault squads......

Next shock;I then send a Landraider full of troops straight for the nearest unit of Tau that are part of the main castled force. Probably in plain sight of the Broadsides. :crazy:

There's more to the tactic, but then I wouldn't want to give away all my secrets...

I did this in a recent game.

Suffice to say, the Landraider died in turn 3, but by then most of his army was already stuck in assault with powerfisting marines and Death Company.

It had done its job.

As a BA player, I ignore them shooting wise and any armour I use stays out of LOS until that critical turn I need them to unmask. Then you overwhelm them with targets who all pop smoke.

Even though I pack ap2/3 heavy weapons, its much better to kill super mobile crisis suits which are the real threat to your infantry rather than try to punch through Broadside shield drones...

Remember folks, as badass as railguns are they are only single shot on Broadsides.

As for Mephiston, his IC status should ensure he doesnt get hit in the face.

As powerful as he is, he shouldn't be wandering the Tau deployment zone all by his lonesome....


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## asianavatar

As a WH player, broadsides tend to be my first target for a callidus assassin. Drop in flame one or the whole squad, you might get lucky to cause a wound than charge in.


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## lt_sparky

Maybe not destroying them but how about keep them busy in CC, I think scarabs would be ideal try to keep them in cover to help with that pesky AP1 and dont forget about small targets special rule which scarabs have and if you do find yourself in the open he can only kill max 1 base a turn, sure your chances of actualy winning the fight is slim but then all your buddies with some nastier guns will be in position. Or now you have moved out your prized land raider out of harms way.


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## Culler

Frostbite said:


> So, how do you get said fast assaulters into range where they can do something, and how do you deal with the Broadsides guardians?


To get assaulters into contact with broadsides is to get assaulters into contact with the entirety of the tau gunline (except perhaps SW scouts and snikrot kommandos). They will be priority targets and given heaps of ranged resistance.

After putting my tau against ywizepapasmurfy's orks (and being an Ork player myself) I recommended to him a setup that overloads on fast units to the point that even a coordinated tau firing line doesn't have the shots to get the job done. In an 1850pt game I recommended to him taking 3 trukks full of boyz + warboss and a unit of 5 or so nob bikers and a unit of 8 or so warbikers. Rush them all up the same flank in the same turn and even the tau can't deal with that (he's also got 2 units of lootas that demand a tau player's attention). Due to using a denied flank tactic I had killed his lootas on turn 1, then he moved his 3 trukks up near my gunline which I killed on turn 2, then his warbikers finally arrived in the critical zone on turn 3, which likewise got focused on and killed. Any one of these threats took a significant portion of my firepower to handle. All of them at once (and even more intense due to adding a unit of FNP nob bikers) would be impossible to handle in 1 turn of shooting (not to mention that the warbikers are actually a significant ranged threat with their tl dakkaguns. He severely depleted a crisis team with their shooting.)

Powerklaws mounted on biking FNP nobs with 5 attacks on the charge = ouch

So, it's doable for quick assault armies. Tyranids don't really have a great solution, as str 8+ ap 2- fire is the best method for dealing with them combined with target denial (keeping your tanks hidden). The optimal unit is probably cameleoline sharpshooter imperial guard anti-tank lascannon teams. With a 4+/3+ cover save they can probably do a great job of taking out broadsides and other suits left in the open. They will certainly be a prime target for tau fire though, so that's why it's important to have cameleoline on them so that they can better take the counterfire. Unfortunately, only 2 of these teams can be taken in an IG army unless they also take heavy weapons platoons. Las devastators in cover are also a great option, though a little more pricey.


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## chrisman 007

For IG, I recommend instant death weapons, which the are in ample supply in the imperial guard. Krak Missile Launchers, battle cannons, earth shakers: all capable of killing a broadside instantly. But the best weapon against broadside is the lascannon. str 9 ap 2, it denies the broadside it's 2+ save and would instantly kill the tau powerhouse.


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## DarKKKKK

i got a question about the tau broadsides
now i play against tau a lot b/c one of my friends plays them
and his broadsides i know has "Slow and Purposeful" a lot in his battles

but he talks about this "hard-wired" multitracker system
now ive heard of hard-wired systems be4, but that was be4 the big upgraded tau
and im not sure if that went through into the new tau 

but can he actually use Slow and Purposeful with advanced stablizers and a multitracker "hard wired"?


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## Galahad

Only one model (the team leader) may have hard-wired upgrades. Hard-wired means that the upgrade is basically built into the pilot rather than the suit. So yes, he could use a HW multi-tracker and his Stabilizers...but *only* the team leader should have that ability. Everyone else has to buy either the stabilizers or the multi-tracker.


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## DarKKKKK

Galahad said:


> Only one model (the team leader) may have hard-wired upgrades. Hard-wired means that the upgrade is basically built into the pilot rather than the suit. So yes, he could use a HW multi-tracker and his Stabilizers...but *only* the team leader should have that ability. Everyone else has to buy either the stabilizers or the multi-tracker.


okay, thanx :good:


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## Estragon

A tactic I'd like to try is Icon of Tzeentch bikers with two meltas and a power weapon/fist champ possibly used in conjunction with deep striking Oblits x 3 backing them up. 2++ turbo-boost is nothing to be sniffed at... Then next turn, and with a decent reserves roll the unlucky broadsides are facing myriad possibilities for shooty death. How does 5 melta shots, 3 twin linked followed by a hellish charge strike you? Well, other than brutally hard............Then your bikes can zoom off again, and you have a shiny new firebase in the form of obliterators. Huzzah!


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## Jacobite

Right behind enemy lines as well. Nice one Estragon. Your a crafty one arn't you


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## Galahad

I bet a lot of the same tactics that apply agianst Broadsides would work for Oblits too (except maybe assault, since obliterators are more formidable than broadsides in that regard)


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## Ubiquitous

Except that obliterators aren't as scary as broadsides because a railgun shot will put them down pretty easily. 
I think your 2++ bikers idea is a really good one, but how about strategies like that for other armies? Just use more bikers?


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## Galahad

Ubiquitous said:


> Except that obliterators aren't as scary as broadsides because a railgun shot will put them down pretty easily.


Except for their invul save.
Meanwhile, a lascannon shot from an oblit can take down a broadside pretty easy too ;-) (if you don;t bring drones)


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## DrakeBluedragon

I remember one game where I got my broadsides hit by a sneaky Baharroth running through the ranks with his independent character rule.....


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## magnustheblue

1. Boss zagstuck w/ a unit of stormboys. They can deep strike in to combat:laugh::laugh::laugh:

2. Broadsides can use their jet packs; they can't do it though after using their Rail Guns


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## Galahad

Magnus, broadsides don't HAVE jet packs

Re-read the unit entry. Crisis Suits are listed as Unit Type: Jump Infantry (jet pack), Broadsides are listed as Unit Type: Infantry. So no jet-pack. You''ll note that the big pewter heat sinks they come with cover the jet pack thrusters.


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## Lord Sinkoran

i would either lacannon the bastard or send up an assault unit.


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## Galahad

We covered that in previous pages. Care to elaborate?


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## foulacy

my first major army was a tau army, and i took 3 broadsides in BIG battles + a hammerhead, and the broadsides usualy died first people seem to think there the bigger threat.
when im playing them now with my death guard i will try to deepstrike my termies on top of them or concentrate my dreds lascannon twin linked fire at them.

depending on my army list i sometimes take my possesed and if there lucky they can get in combay pretty quick and tear them a part, but no doubt there a scary unit.


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## Someguy

Nobody has mentioned morale, which is odd. Morale is one of the major weaknesses that Tau have.

Broadsides are LD8. A couple of dead drones and the unit has to take a break test. Pinning from things like fury of the ancients can be very effective.

Deep striking one unit into a tau gun line will result in one dead unit - yours. I played a game against blood angels in which my opponent dropped in a death company and two terminator squads to kill my broadsides, but didn't kill them. The termies fired at the braodsides with no real effect. My broadside team leader (with plasma rifles and hard wired multi tracker) killed 3 terminators on his own even before my fireknife suits opened up. Sacrificing a unit of kroot to the DC allowed the broadsides to get away and let me nuke the death company in the following turn. Result was that my opponent had lost all his best assault units in exchange for one 91 point unit of kroot and the game was pretty much over.

Drop troops who want to get into CC will fail regardless of numbers, toughness of the unit or their gear for killing stuff. They will die where they land. Drop troops with guns may succeed, especially things like IG drop armies with loads of melta/plasma guns. These can destroy the crisis teams and FWs/kroot, and can have fun throwing their demo charge at broadsides.

To be honest I can't see why you would deep strike an assault unit in most situations. It's usually at least as fast to jump, ride in a transport or whatever, and far more reliable.

Finally, a very important point I would make about broadsides is to not fixate on them. I know this is an article about how to deal with them, but your first decision should be whether you actually *need* to deal with them. Broadsides are excellent at killing tanks but really not very good against infantry, so if you don't have tanks you should probably ignore them. Even if you play mech the fireknife teams are probably at least as dangerous to you as the broadsides, and you need to get rid of them first if you want to go close. Broadsides are unlikely to go and do scenario objectives in most games, while things like hammerheads and crisis suits will be all over the objectives if you let them live. 

As with any unit, remember to think before you commit to killing broadsides. They aren't easy to kill and they may not be a huge threat. It may be easier to work around them, smile when you see a 6 point model get hit by a railgun, and play the whole game rather than a unit hunt. You could make your ork army with a ton of speedy stuff to try and rush the broadsides before you get blown away, or you could just field a couple of hundred models and not care if you lose a couple every turn to a unit that cost your opponent 200 points or more.


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## Galahad

there's some fantastic points in there, guy.

The morale thing is why I rarely fielded a solo broadside with drones unless I could afford to slap on a bonding knife and stabilizers so he could fire and attempt to regroup after the inevitable break.

I like the idea of a dropped in shooting team. Could be a good use for a Blood Angel Honour Guard.
Two plaspistols, a pair of plasma guns (or meltas), and maybe a medic for good measure. Drop in close on jump packs and open up...though that's a fairly expensive unit to toss into the fire


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## Someguy

IG drop troops work by having a very high number of special weapons relative to their points cost. Squads with 3 or 4 special weps come in under 80 points so you get a ton of them. They all die, often to their own plasma guns, but they usually get their points back.

A VAS wouldn't be able to do the same thing so efficiently. You are probably talking about a squad that costs about the same as the broadsides being used as a one shot weapon. Not a great plan in my opinion.

A major problem with using reserves to counter the broadsides is that you don't show up till at least turn 2. Broadsides do their thing at the beginning of the game. If you have something that the broadsides want to kill, like a crusader full of DC or assault termies, then they will have done it already by the time your VAS shows up. Drop IG get around this problem by having nothing much at all on the board at the start, so the broadsides have nothing to do until something nasty drops on them.

I don't think that BA are necessarily vulnerable to broadsides. Certain things: baal preds (auto pen on side armour), attack bikes and ICs can have a horrible time with broadsides, but they can usually be hidden or substituted for more infantry. If you have jump troops and devastators as the core of your force then there isn't much that broadsides are going to threaten anyway, and sooner or later your assault units will reach them.

I find drop IG hilarious to be honest. Why would you drop a guy holding a bomb out of a plane when you could just drop a bomb? Odd. :dunno:


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## Morgal

Hmmm drop troop demolition charge..

anyways, some good points.

IF you don't have expensive tanks the broadsides are useless.
there leadership is low so the can be pinned, snipers may be good.(not to mention they may actually wound them)

Drop troops, expendable shooty death works but expect to lose the unit.

Personally broad sides have a huge effect on me and i will eep my tanks out of sight till they go down... the broad sides make there points even if they don't shoot anything because i over react and keep my 160 pt tanks out of sight.


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## Tau Chaotix

HA! if broadsides dont shoot stuff, they make people hide everything so that they cant!
hahahahahahah

my friend just ignored railguns completly and charges straight down at my with assult marines and land speeders, they take down as much as they can..then get blow up :biggrin:

Just field loads of rhinos, charge em up the field..and not far behind...a crusadar.

they will go for the rhinos if they are packed with troops, so in other words, a diversion!


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## Ordo Xeno Commander

not necessarily, as the LRC can pack more troops and more guns than a rhino, and can still be popped on a 4+ then 4+ by a Broadside. so honestly, i reckon they will leave the rhinos to the fireknife's missiles and plasma, target the Crusader with the railguns. as it alone poses a very large threat to the tau as the people inside are capable of charging in the same turn as disembarking out of the vehicle, meaning that they can't be shot at before hand, and can shoot you, if that way inclined. 

also, the crusader is armed with shrapnel launchers, which simply says goodbye to your 'first strike' if you are in cover. and marines in a LRC are normally packing a hefty punch, so striking at the same time with stronger units than you, the tau are doomed.

so no, a diversion may not work with a LRC, being such a fire magnet. unless its another LR or LRC, which is just pointless, sacrificing one for another.


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## Galahad

What you need is a big cardboard shell to pout around one of your rhinos to make it LOOK like a land raider...that's so brilliant it HAS to work! :biggrin:


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## Tau Chaotix

But that would be a waste of points, you would have to pay for it in points otherwise people would be suspicios!


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## Someguy

Pretty much any Tau player is going to have his suits kill your rhinos and his broadsides kill the land raider. It's really quite difficult to make a rhino appear more threatening than a LRC.

Taking a load of tanks against tau and hoping that some get through is one option, but in my opinion you are better off taking no tanks at all.


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## Insanity101

First off, tzeentchy bikes that turbo boost do NOT get a 2++ save. The icon of tzeentch says it enhances an invulnerable save that is already there to +1 better (not word for word). Because the bikes do NOT have an invuln save to start with they do not get the +1, but they do get the 5++ save.

Broadsides are annoying as hell. Favorite tactic, Infiltrating vets or chosen w/ powerfists and meltaguns if the broadsides are really going to be worth my time (not usually, infantry heavy marine armies).


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## Galahad

Actually, Insanity, when a bike turbo-boosts its armor save becomes an invulnerable save The MoT adds +1 to invulnerable saves, so yes a tzeenth biker does gain a 2+ invul save, but only when turbo-boosting. But that's a matter for a different thread.

Infiltrating can be good, especially if the unit in question can cover that 13-19" quickly wihtout getitng shot to hell


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## Archangel41

I play Blood Angels and Death Company, Veteran Assault Squads, or Assault Squads work pretty well for me.

If those don't work deep striking around them and pouring on a ton of fire work too.:biggrin:




If you have something to add after you post, please just edit your first post instead of making a second one right away


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## beeny13

actually i think my white scars could do a great job on them
might be one of the few things they excel at

it has a master of sanctity and a bike mounted command squad
they can turbo boost to close the gap
engage close combat with furious charge and two power weapons
then after the opponent's assault phase hit and run

so as long as they are within 42" and out of sight they can take some shots, 3+ invuln save with an apothecary, then either assault the broadsides, killing the drones with the tl bolter volley, or assault the tau firing line, working their way over on my turn 3d6"


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## Steel Rain

It's a Trojan Rhino! Brilliant! IG can take out a tau broadside with one vehicle: The Leman Russ Executioner. Armed with a Plasma Destroyer main turret and hull lascannon, for roughly 180 points, you can take out anything with a 2+ save from 54" away. Even if that draws fire away, you're fighting tau. You'd be a fool to not have a lascannon anti-tank team to deal with that hammerhead.


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## Galahad

beeny13 said:


> actually i think my white scars could do a great job on them
> might be one of the few things they excel at
> 
> it has a master of sanctity and a bike mounted command squad
> they can turbo boost to close the gap
> engage close combat with furious charge and two power weapons
> then after the opponent's assault phase hit and run
> 
> so as long as they are within 42" and out of sight they can take some shots, 3+ invuln save with an apothecary, then either assault the broadsides, killing the drones with the tl bolter volley, or assault the tau firing line, working their way over on my turn 3d6"


Problem is, you can't assault after you turbo-boost


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## Changer of Ways

Hey Galahad, my buddy plays orks.
He usually ambushes Tau broadsides with Boss Snikrot and a good-sized squad of Kommandos, lol!


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## beenburned

I dunno, as I've never fought them, but fleeting a large squad of harlies with kisses and a shadowseer to protect them from tau fire as much as possible could make it with fleets, then just hit and run out on their combat phase, then back in on yours. For an added bonus, you stick two with fusion pistols for two instant death shots after you've got rid of the drones in the first combat phase.


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## Houder

beenburned said:


> I dunno, as I've never fought them, but fleeting a large squad of harlies with kisses and a shadowseer to protect them from tau fire as much as possible could make it with fleets, then just hit and run out on their combat phase, then back in on yours. For an added bonus, you stick two with fusion pistols for two instant death shots after you've got rid of the drones in the first combat phase.


That's funny cos broadsides are probably the only thing that truely excels at killing harlies thanks to their 4 str5 shots that don't require los which equals 12 shots so 6 hit 5 wound and 2-3 harlies die 2 turns of shooting say 5 dead harlies and a nice rapid fire reception to finnish them off


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## darklove

The turn after I did a deep strike with a Monolith on top of the Tau army, I portalled my Destroyer Lord with Warscythe from 18" away. He them moved a further 12" and assaulted another 6" into the Broadsides. 36" in a single turn! Then BANG with the Warscythe, no saves allowed, and dead Broadsides. The Destroyer Lord has 4 attacks on the charge


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## Dessel_Ordo

HI with maxed out vanguard (all PW's, arge w/relic blade) could probably work, if you trust your luck, and its a big point game (big enough where the ensuing devastation of that squad doesnt hurt)

in smaller games... umm... sheer dumb luck, or something infiltrating/outflanking I guess.


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## BlackApostleVilhelm

charge! assaulted them with my raptors and berserkers. tau parts all over the place


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## Cato Sicarius

Enough Plasma Cannons should take it/them down. I seriously think that Plasma Cannons are now one of if not the best weapon in the Space Marine arsenal, what with no overheating from it and all.


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## Wraithian

Cato Sicarius said:


> Enough Plasma Cannons should take it/them down. I seriously think that Plasma Cannons are now one of if not the best weapon in the Space Marine arsenal, what with no overheating from it and all.


Wait... Plasma Cannons don't overheat anymore? I know it's still a thing for older codecis to have to roll a D6 before rolling your scatter and D6 to see if you get the magic, "Oh hell, I just burned my face off with a 1," roll. Plasma cannons in the new marine codex don't suffer from the, "Get's Hot," rule?


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## Daneel2.0

Yes, Marine plasma still suffers from the Gets Hot rule. (re. pp 99 Marine Codex and pp. 31 BRB).

I think what Cato was referencing is that it doesn't overheat on more than a 1 even with a rapid fire plasma.


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## Wraithian

Plasma cannons don't rapid fire, though. :wink:

But yes, good, I'm glad to see that the PC still overheats. My one saving grace when fighting "Plaspam." :biggrin:


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## Shadowfire

My best and most regularly played opponent is a Tau player, he normally pips me to the top spot in Tournies 

He loves his battlesuits, and his Broadside usage is extensive, evolving to drones and the like. 

My favoured ways of dealing with them are in 2 ways

1. Mind War, hits hardest at the Tau achilles heel Ld, should have seen his jaw drop the first time a broadside's head popped :grin:
Am sure that other armies have similar/equivalent type attacks that can ignore all the fancy army stuff

2. Negation

Everyone can use this and it's not just anti-broadside [any points heavy static ranged unit], rather than kill them, which normally involves specialised tactics or wasting a lot of firepower, you simply deny it targets. 
Use cover, combat, manoeuvrability, make those points your opponent used wasted points


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## deathbringer

As a tau player my advice, Lascannon strength 9 so instant kill if you can get rid of the inevitable shield drones
the broadsides will fall straight off to lascannon fire.

Same goes for a powerfist or anything with a melta attackbikes in particular), problem is reaching them in combat, if they take the Advanced stabilization system they can edge out of charge range,

Off the top of my head, things that have killed my broadsides

If your guard infilitrate some vendettas with vets and meltas/ plasmas (melta is better no save instant kill) by sheer numbers you should get something to bear before it kills you. I see infiltrating vendettas and vets I know im in trouble

If your playing sm take a termi squad thunderhammers, deepstrike, bounce of the fire and then charge au revoir or a predator really did me some damage. Rhino swarm coming towards me, nailed some of the rhinos and a vindicator, couldnt shoot the pred, didnt have shield drones and the broadsides bought it

Necrons, a monolith gives you a good chance of getting it before it gets you

CSM: Squad with a powerfist in a rhino and pray you get through the hail of fire


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## Silverclaw

A good tactic when it comes to Tau is to get into CC (obviously) so anything that can do this fast sems to be worth considering.

But dont forget your big guns if you have them, i have once killed a broadside with a lascanon shot from my Oblit :biggrin:
Demolisher cannons are always effective aswell... but that is offcourse only if you can get close enough.
Perhaps Plaz cannon to take off the drones and then Lascannons to finish off the suits?

And by the way. that Tzeench biker thing wont work as the save you get from turboboost is a cover save, and Tzeench (unfortunaly), only improves Invul. saves :cray:


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## Colonel Wolf

Jacobite said:


> As with most problems I'd go with a GKGM or even just a BC deepstriking on top of them. NFM will slice through that stuff like nobodies business and then I'd move onto taking out his other static firepower. The GM/BC doesn't even really need a Bodyguard to do this.
> 
> For straight IG its a little harder, I'd probably go with a Special Weapon squad with Sniper Rifles or Ratlings. However it is very hit and miss. I havn't faced a Tau army with straight IG so I'm not sure.


I go up against Tau with straight IG quite often. I find an outflanking Vendetta with a melta-squad usually does the trick. Fly in Ven, deploy vets or command group, command group takes out drones, leaving three twin-linked lascannon to do the final clean up. If all doesn't go well, you still have the option of assaulting the suit. If the command group has Straken in charge it helps...


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## Capt.Al'rahhem

For the record I hate Broadsides, my roomate plays Tau and I play Mech. & Tank heavy IG. So you could say they are my nemsis.

Anyways, I recently picked up a pair of Banewolves and the 2 24" range blast Meltacannons did a good job taking out a couple Broadsides in cover in a recent Apoc. game I played. He didn't have shield drones with them for some reason. 

Haven't had a chance to try them against my roomate yet and he always has SD with his BSs. He'll usualy go after my Leman Russ' first so I may get them into a good position to get a shot off with them. It'll work once but when he figures out they ignore his saves and cause instant death they won't last long. My tactic is to put some many tanks and chimera based vehicles in his face he can't get them all.


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## Emet Paladin of Truth

I'm sorry to resurrect... but you're all wrong.

why? because you're playing tau's game- engaging in ranged combat.

I don't care what gun you have, TL S10 AP1 is better

to kill '88s, just DS anything with more guys than the '88s have guns and assault.

thier much-feared TL-railgun is now worth beans, and as already stated, they suck in cc.

even if it fails, it mobs them enough to let the rest of your troops close to cc them again.


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## LukeValantine

Luke's CSM answer to broad sides.

1) Ignore them: As long as there is less then two units of 3, I can typically ignore them for the first turn since I will often pop smoke on my rhino's after driving up 12 (1-2 turns to get up into revenge range), and besides if with smoke and there lack of amazing hit rates (one shot guns suck) I typically only lose 1 rhino to broad sides, and then my units get out into 4+cover. Or I just make a bare bones winged or lash prince in front of my rhino's to give a 4+ cover from the broadsides, and to draw fire.
2) I sneak a unit of 10 bare bones chosen right up in there face to draw attention away from by rhino column. Or I use a lash prince to get the buggers to constantly move closer to me after turn 1. (deploy out max distance then fly then lash, means I can often disable broadsides turn 1 if my opponent is careless). Still remember the time I made my friends broadside team walk behind a wall so they couldn't shoot...hilarious.


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## Grinnsira

I would go with scouts in a storm. Give them BP and CCW with the sgt armed with a combi-melta and PF. Scout in, move 12", dismount 2" move 6", shoot, assault!


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## Cyleune

Being an IG/Eldar player it's relatively easy for me to bust them with Hull-Mounted lascannons or Wave Serpents carrying Dragons (overkill?)/10 Avengers (Bladestorm = 33 shots at BS 4 Str 4).


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## ChugginDatHaterade

Assaults, and hive volume of instant death shots are the only way.


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## Cyleune

But pouring insane amounts of shots into them is fun!


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## troybuckle

If it were me, I would drop/DS/Infiltrate a very good Assault Unit (With Fearless if possible), that would be a threat to the Broadsuit, close to it. Even though their most likely will be fire warriors or something to support the broadsuit if the assaulting unit is a big enough threat to it, say power/rendering weapons , then it would force the broadsuit to react to defend itself, this would allow your other units/tanks a chance to concentrate fire on the broadsuit to take it down. 
Just be prepared to lose that assaulting unit and a full round of firing at the suit - and by firing I mean with every model that is in range and can do damage. If it still stands next round then, finish it off with your assaulting units that you deep strike – if it’s still not dead - then give up because by now you have wasted to much resource trying to kill it. I think this is a fairly universal tactic that most armies could try.


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## Hooobit

Dark Angels landspeeders, 1 typhoon with heavy bolter and 2 assualt cannons with multimeltas. Fly the max distance each turn until you get within range, then the typhoon starts shooting with its missiles and the other 2 keep flying at it until they are in range and then the assulat cannons finish what the missiles couldnt. and some multimelta for good luck,


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## Stephen_Newman

Being an eldar player I use my harlies, protected by nearby fortuning seer and a shadowseer that makes them impossible to target unless at short range. And with a 13-18 inch assault range it will already be too late..


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## Deathscythe4722

Honestly, i just ignore them for the most part.

I make sure my Oblits are out of LOS, hang the rest of my force back behind buildings, then rain Las/Plasma Cannon shots down on them. At this point they either come to me or castle up. If they come to me, they have to get through 2-3 squads of Zerkers. If they castle, i move into range and have a Lascannon vs Railgun shootout while the rest of my army advances.

Unless the terrain wildly favors their deployment, they will have a hell of a time bringing their Broadsides to bear (unless they get the S&P upgrade).


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## Emet Paladin of Truth

troybuckle said:


> If it were me, I would drop/DS/Infiltrate a very good Assault Unit (With Fearless if possible), that would be a threat to the Broadsuit, close to it. Even though their most likely will be fire warriors or something to support the broadsuit if the assaulting unit is a big enough threat to it, say power/rendering weapons , then it would force the broadsuit to react to defend itself, this would allow your other units/tanks a chance to concentrate fire on the broadsuit to take it down.


you're fighting tau- _any_ cc unit is a threat


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## coke123

What about a drop pod full of sternguard with combi-plasma? Rather pricey, I know, but deepstriking in and blowing the broadsides to hell would get rid of them. They'd almost certainly have to be backed up by some terms or a couple of assault squads.


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## Necrosis

Callidus assassin. Appears out of no where, uses Neural Shredder and then assaults them with a weapon that ignores both armour and invu.


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## xxedge72x

coke123 said:


> What about a drop pod full of sternguard with combi-plasma? Rather pricey, I know, but deepstriking in and blowing the broadsides to hell would get rid of them. They'd almost certainly have to be backed up by some terms or a couple of assault squads.


I would think DP Sternguard would do more vs. a Crisis Suit team, especially if you consider that after nuking a mobile crisis suit unit, you could then footslog to the broadsides and PF them to hell.


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## Seph

I find that praying Marbo shows up early and gets a lucky hit with his demo charge the turn he pops up. managed to get a whole 3 of them last night in the last turn of a game. (admittedly i had been all but wiped out by then so it was a tad hollow)


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## Dawnstar

Seph said:


> I find that praying Marbo shows up early and gets a lucky hit with his demo charge the turn he pops up. managed to get a whole 3 of them last night in the last turn of a game. (admittedly i had been all but wiped out by then so it was a tad hollow)


Dude, the thread is over 6 months old. Check the post dates next time?


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