# Level of Menace (by codex!)



## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

After taking some time to read the WH40k codexes and get absorbed into the fluff, I noticed some interesting differences in the style in which the armies are presented. So let's discuss just how dangerous each faction is made out to be in its own book.

(This a fluff analysis only! No comments on each faction's ability to actually deliver the threat with its in-game rules.)

-Eldar: Average Menace Level. These guys are so tragic, slowly dying caught between tyranids and clumsy blubbering humans, but the codex does give them a 'cornered fox' vibe, implying that they can go out in quite a blaze of glory if given a chance. That and their (in)famous Farseeing, gleefully using other races as living shields against the more horrid menaces out there, makes them quite...unsettling.

-Chaos Space Marines: Low Menace Level. The fluff talks a good game about the warp and chaos, but as for the marines? Not so good. Memorable battles: See, once we got to jack a Space Wolves ship! And you know this world we just made up? We had a civil war there for some 60 years, critically destabilizing 1/1,000,000th of the Imperium! The Chaos Boyz end up looking like Power Rangers villains, perpetually foiled, heading back to the Eye of Terror shaking their fists. They'd have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those damn Space Marines!

- Necrons: High menace level. The tone of this codex matches the Necrom theme quite well: unknowable, relentless, merciless. Things are already bad and they are going to get worse. Every necron that has been felled in battle hasn't been destroyed and will be back, and more (whole tomb worlds of them) are rising. Engagements with their fleet are so disastrous that they don't even serve as learning experiences. Their gods don't really play the "let me busy myself with the esoteric matters beyond reality" game and instead eagerly join the game of wiping out all life in the galaxy.

- Imperial Guard: Average menace level. More like average-high, actually. The Imperial Guard is made towin and it does, but it doesn't look good doing it. They may be the easily-dispatched mooks in every other codex, but writing conveys the grim 'Red Army' roots of the Guard well. Unbreakable commanders willing to drown the enemy with the bodies of their own men, and their own in necessary, backed by clanking artillery and endless waves of tanks are nothing to scoff at.

-Dark Eldar: Quite a high menace level, actually. While they won't be wiping out any other factions anytime soon, the Dark Eldar are made to be intensely efficient at what they do: raiding, enslaving and torturing. Nowhere is safe; they can strike anywhere and drag whole populations to an existence that makes Necron Lords leak brake fluid down their legs. They1ve ben at it for ten millenia, in a hidden city of pure agony, and they are -very- good at it.

- Tau: Low menace level. Tau appear efficient and motivated in a gung-ho way, but they make it clear that the Tau are a circumstantial power at best; every time they are about to face a sizable challenge geared up to wipe them out, a stroke of luck is what delivers them instead of their own bad-assness; a Tyranid swarm, a warp storm or something else. The sense that their expansion really is all that relentless and fast doesn't really come across.

- Orks: Medium-high. Everyone's favorite grammar-challenged green psychos come out as unstoppable, savage and bloodthirsty, but the comical undertone of the codex does crimp things a bit. That, and its gimmick for explaining why they haven't overran the galaxy yet works a bit too well: kill the head baddie and the others will automatically slaughter themselves for you! Ghagzkull also seems to be morphing into cartoon villain territory, blasting off like Team Rocket after the day is lost (though orks do it with style, I admit.)

Feel free to comment/contribute!


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Nids: Have already chomped down on nearly a quarter of the galaxy without breaking strides. Well maybe one or two Hive Fleets, but we`ve got dozens more! I`ll assume you skipped nids because they are automatically number One? 

In which case, I`ll continue:

2: Necrons. Basically for the reasons you said. Though it is possible to destroy a necron permanently, and has happened fairly often. It`s just hard.

3: Chaos. I think you`ve underplayed them. Remember they`re fighting each other as much as the Imperium, but the threat is there.

4: Imperium. Yeah. We own the galaxy. Come and get it. :threaten:

After this, I put the tau and eldar wherever. None of them can play on the same level as the big guys, and to me the orks are just the filler bad guys for when nobody else can be bothered. 

IMO...


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## Yllib Enaz (Jul 15, 2010)

I agree about the lack of real menace the Choas codex has. Abaddons 13 great black failures always amuse me confirming his position as a minor irritant with a great PR man. I thought it was very amusing hwen this theme was picked up in the novel soul hunter too.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Space Marines: High. Let's face it, much as i love them they really are the poster boys of games workshop. The victories they accomplish are untold, hell we have several pages in each of the new marine codexs going on to explain just how bad ass they are. Orks doing a mega assault that no ones stopping? how does it end? Marines. Chaos doing a insanely terrifying incursion into Imperial territory? hows it end? Marines. And pretty much the same for any real threat the Imperium ever has to face. You can guarantee the next chaos/ork/tyranid/tau/necron invasion campaign is going to be beaten back by the Marines.


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## The Boz (Aug 16, 2010)

I fail to see the menace in Dark Eldar. Sure, they may rape you, flay you, torture you, rape you again, disembowel you, rape you again, kill you, rape you once more and then eat you, but they're only doing it to you. They're not doing it to a whole lot of people.
The Eldar, on the other hand, manipulate events and races that are far larger than their entire Craftworlds.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

How could i forget?

- Tyranids. Tyranids win. Menace level omega. All their incursions were only averted at an astounding cost in lives and material, sometimes so great it pretty much redefines the concept of Pyrrhyc victory. The more you fight, the more nutritious you become and the stronger they will be in the end. The previous Hive fleets have only been feeler tentacles, with a main force that likely devoured a whole other galaxy being on the way to suck this one dry until it makes that noise a straw does when you suck the last bit of a milkshake through it. 

As for Chaos and Dark Eldar, please note I'm not defining 'menace' as uber-powerful abilitiy to remake the galaxy. Rather, see it as how able they come across at achieving their goals. Dark Eldar have a less demanding objective than most others, but they are deviously good at it and there really is no way to stop them. 

The Chaos Legions, on the other hand, have a somewhat lofty goal (razing Terra and casting down the imperium) that they never even get to advance towards; mankind will instead just crumble on its own, with the same speed regardless of what Abbadon does or doesn't do, though he may get to peek out of the Warp and kick the ruins of the Astronomican in 3 thousand years, akin to you going to Greece, kicking a toppled pillar of the Acropolis and call yourself the Despoiler of Ancient Greece.


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## Lima6 (Sep 30, 2008)

Have to agree with most except the orks - although not in a 'dex, after reading Rynn's World they suddenly seemed far less comical and actually sh*t scary! 

When you stop to think about what a rampaging horde of what are essentially mental pissheads, with near superhuman strength and the ability to shrug off numerous wounds would actually do to a human planet, their threat level suddenly becomes pretty high.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I can`t help be a little offended, by your take on the threat level of CSM. The main reason being that your basing your evaluation on abbaddons crusades alone. True they are where the bulk of the CSM force is located, but as a whole CSM and daemons pose a huge menace level to their enemies. Entire imperial, and xeno systems have been lost in a matter of days to daemonic encusions, backed by marines.

Although I do agree that abbadons pathetic failed crusades are hardly even a concern to their enemies. Which really seems stupid when in other sections of the fluff they and their daemonic allies have made entire systems burn, and on 1 or 2 occasion have even brought Craft worlds to ruin (Daemons codex, and the death of Elderad). I will agree that the current CSM book does do a horrible job showing how threatening they can be by playing up how scary failaddons failsades are.. wooo I`me abbadon, and I`m backed by immortal killing machines that can butcher entire chapter, yet I can`t even take or destroy a single planet even though I have a damn ship that can blow a planet up from F&?%ing orbit.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

True but from almost all accounts the CSM and Power Rangers analogy still applys


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

It seems more like the idea of Chaos, it's ability to corrupt and fester within any society, is the true threat.

If Chaos manages to win in the end, it'll be thanks to Daemons and the innumerous cults to Chaos that triumph, ultimately. 

It seems Chaos Space Marines are more straightforward in their destruction of the Imperium. Rather than trying to turn the Imperium against itself, it just kills or enslaves everyone that gets in their way. The CSM are too few in number and organization to succeed that way.

Chaos as a whole is scary as hell. Chaos Space Marines? Not so much.


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## The Boz (Aug 16, 2010)

Sephyr said:


> As for Chaos and Dark Eldar, please note I'm not defining 'menace' as uber-powerful abilitiy to remake the galaxy. Rather, see it as how able they come across at achieving their goals. Dark Eldar have a less demanding objective than most others, but they are deviously good at it and there really is no way to stop them.
> 
> The Chaos Legions, on the other hand, have a somewhat lofty goal (razing Terra and casting down the imperium) that they never even get to advance towards; mankind will instead just crumble on its own, with the same speed regardless of what Abbadon does or doesn't do, though he may get to peek out of the Warp and kick the ruins of the Astronomican in 3 thousand years, akin to you going to Greece, kicking a toppled pillar of the Acropolis and call yourself the Despoiler of Ancient Greece.


So the biggest menace in the entire IoM is a man who is about to fart and really, really wants to fart?


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## MuSigma (Jul 8, 2010)

Most forces are ground troops - Orcs, CSM's, IG and SM's etc - they fight for control of planets and its resources - they real enemies are the forces who destroy whole planets from space. Dominion of the Galaxy belongs to those with the most powerful ships. In the end analysis all that remain are the Tyranid Hive Fleets and the Necron Cruisers against the Imperial Navy. All others are just ground troops, heroic but not important.


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## GiftofChaos1234 (Jan 27, 2009)

while i agree with your points on the black legion and failbaddon, im pretty sure the night lords scare the living **** out of the imperium, go to the page in the csm codex with the rhino and read the bit at the bottom of the page, you'll see what i mean


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## Yllib Enaz (Jul 15, 2010)

The Boz said:


> So the biggest menace in the entire IoM is a man who is about to fart and really, really wants to fart?


Well if the man who wants to is the emperor and he has been holding it in for 10,000 years the sense of releif and pleasure he gets when he does may just elevate Slaanesh to be THE most powerful chaos god...


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## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

LukeValantine said:


> Although I do agree that abbadons pathetic failed crusades are hardly even a concern to their enemies.


Considering the Imperium fortifies an entire sector and created twenty Space Marine Chapters just to contain Abbadon. I would hardly say they take him lightly. Going by the Index Astartes article on him the High Lords are ''terrified'' of the day Abbadon units all of the Chaos Marines in the Eye.



LukeValantine said:


> I will agree that the current CSM book does do a horrible job showing how threatening they can be by playing up how scary failaddons failsades are.. wooo I`me abbadon, and I`m backed by immortal killing machines that can butcher entire chapter, yet I can`t even take or destroy a single planet even though I have a damn ship that can blow a planet up from F&?%ing orbit.


St. Jothsmane Hope? Stranivar? Savaven? He's destroyed all of those. Two of those in the Gothic War and one of those in the 13th, and that's all that is mnetioned.

Let's look on what he has done.

1st Crusade: He goes out and butchers many worlds before finally being turned back, Rogal Dorn is lost during this crusade and the Imperium pours resources into fortifying Cadia.

12th Crusade: The Gothic War: Abbadon's primary objective here is getting the Blackstones, he got two, which appearantly was enough for him. This crusade was simply a item run for the 13th. At the very least it's a partial sucess.

13th. Still ongoing.

We don't really have much information on what Abbadon's plans or how the Crusades even went at all.


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## Yog-Sothoth (Jan 8, 2010)

I've got to admit I like Abbadon. He is the symbol of chaos and he is the leader that will burn terra. In my opinon anyway. Who knows if Abbadon did or did not complete his tasks in his black crusades? I think this quote from Soul Hunter sums this up for me;
p.163 "You seem unimpressed by my assurance," the Wamaster said
"With respect, sir all of your previous crusades have failed."
"Is that so? Are you one of my inner circle, to judge whether my plans came to pass and my objectives were met"



GiftofChaos1234 said:


> while i agree with your points on the black legion and failbaddon, im pretty sure the night lords scare the living **** out of the imperium, go to the page in the csm codex with the rhino and read the bit at the bottom of the page, you'll see what i mean


I don't think so, the Night Lords are a broken legion. They have no real leader and they are all split into diffrent groups. Sure scary in the small scale but no real threat to the Imperium as a whole. I think the only way the Night Lords could become a true threat is if they united and ACTUALLY EMBRACED CHAOS (grumble)


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## unixknight (Jul 26, 2010)

Yog-Sothoth said:


> Who knows if Abbadon did or did not complete his tasks in his black crusades? I think this quote from Soul Hunter sums this up for me;
> p.163 "You seem unimpressed by my assurance," the Wamaster said
> "With respect, sir all of your previous crusades have failed."
> "Is that so? Are you one of my inner circle, to judge whether my plans came to pass and my objectives were met"


I dunno that sounds a little like a face-saving maneuver to me. 

"I'm gonna burn Terra! I'm gonna slay the Emperor! I'm gonna tear down the entire Imperium! To do it, I'm gonna um... raid one planet at a time. Yeah! That's it! Win by attrition, see? My armies were beaten back by some loyalist marines and all we came away with was a handful of slaves but haha! That's all I came for! Yeah... that's it... Success!"

"But sir... at that rate, it will take approximately 6.4 million years to..."
"DO YOU PRESUME TO KNOW MY PLANS?!?!?!"
*groan*

"If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards." -Unknown


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## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

unixknight said:


> I dunno that sounds a little like a face-saving maneuver to me.
> 
> "I'm gonna burn Terra! I'm gonna slay the Emperor! I'm gonna tear down the entire Imperium! To do it, I'm gonna um... raid one planet at a time. Yeah! That's it! Win by attrition, see? My armies were beaten back by some loyalist marines and all we came away with was a handful of slaves but haha! That's all I came for! Yeah... that's it... Success!"
> 
> ...


No, it's more like ''grab that super weapon, grab that super weapon, get that sword, test those defences'' and _then_ begin the plan. That's like saying the Allies lost WWII because they did not conquer Berlin on D-Day.

You can't seriously expect Abbadon to blaze right through the Cadian Gate and all the way through the Imperium into Terra, the most heavily fortified planet in the universe, in one blow.

Plus with the way time flows in the Eye of Terror it may have been a much shorter span of time for Abbadon than 10,000 years. For all we know he could be launching Black Crusades every decade or something. What we really need would be say a novel from Abbadon's point of view, to see what exactly his plans and crusades are like.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

The Boz said:


> So the biggest menace in the entire IoM is a man who is about to fart and really, really wants to fart?


If they ever release that codex...yes. :thank_you:


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

unixknight said:


> I dunno that sounds a little like a face-saving maneuver to me.
> 
> "I'm gonna burn Terra! I'm gonna slay the Emperor! I'm gonna tear down the entire Imperium! To do it, I'm gonna um... raid one planet at a time. Yeah! That's it! Win by attrition, see? My armies were beaten back by some loyalist marines and all we came away with was a handful of slaves but haha! That's all I came for! Yeah... that's it... Success!"
> 
> ...


The much-beloved 3.5 codex did a better job of making the traitors seem scary (the tale of a champion's ascension to Daemon Prince was quite interesting), but they actually went for the "It's all part of the plan" gambit, or, as we call in in Warcraft Lore, pulling a Kael-Thas.

"See, all those defeats -looked- like failures to your puny mind! But They were all carefully prepared steps for my final triumph, which you are POWERLESS to stop!"

Speech usually followed by utter defeat and claiming of loot. 

This is an actual question that reveals my ignorance, though: Why do they need to go through Cadia at all? Can't they just enter the Warp inside the Eye and emerge on another system?


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

The Cadian gate is the only stable path from the Eye of Terror to the rest of the galaxy. Trying to go through any where else would mean having most of your fleet destroyed.

Which begs the question, why don't the Chaos gods open up a path for them? It doesn't have to be permanent. Just a few months.


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## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

hailene said:


> The Cadian gate is the only stable path from the Eye of Terror to the rest of the galaxy. Trying to go through any where else would mean having most of your fleet destroyed.
> 
> Which begs the question, why don't the Chaos gods open up a path for them? It doesn't have to be permanent. Just a few months.


It's the Chaos gods, nothing they do has to make sense. They inherently are irrational beings dreamed up out of humanity's darkest emotions.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Abaddon is much like Horus in the fact that he is a puppet to higher powers, the Chaos gods decide if he will win or not.
Horus was used by the big four, Erebus and Lorgar. It's a bit of a leap but maybe the Chaos Gods don't want to win, maybe things as they are suit them just fine.
It says in Legion that if the Imperium were to fall then Horus would destroy the galaxy and the Chaos powers along with it, surely Tzeench and co. would have worked that out too. 
In Nemesis Erebus has concerns that Horus is deviating from the plans laid down by Lorgar and that the Heresy is going off track. 
Maybe it was Erebus that lowered the shields on Horus's ship during the siege of Terra, maybe he understood that for the Chaos Gods to be truly triumphant then Horus had to lose. 

Abaddon probably wants to tear down the Imperium and burn Terra but is that what the Chaos powers want?


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## Kulzanar (Aug 10, 2010)

Sephyr said:


> - Imperial Guard: Average menace level. More like average-high, actually. The Imperial Guard is made towin and it does, but it doesn't look good doing it. They may be the easily-dispatched mooks in every other codex, but writing conveys the grim 'Red Army' roots of the Guard well. Unbreakable commanders willing to drown the enemy with the bodies of their own men, and their own in necessary, backed by clanking artillery and endless waves of tanks are nothing to scoff at.


I quite love how you've placed the Guard in a quite high place. And it is quite like said before. We own the galaxy, come and get it. But I don't think the Guard codex is the right place to learn about them. In the codex they really go out to the Red army theme which is kind of true (and sad). It is in the books that you actually read about their individual skills.

The codex tells mostly about how they are recruited, armed, lead, etc. What it doesn't tell you is that the weak are rooted out in the first battles, leaving the harden core. Men filled with faith and zeal for the Emperor and the Imperium. Men who leave behind family, wives, children, they abandon them (sometimes volountarily) to fight for their race. When their 10 years of service are up they just cross the box to continue active service. Just as with the Space Marines, their duty ends in death. All they have left to live for is eachother and they'll sell their hides dearly. Also when a planet is invaded it is the Planetary Defence Force that messes things up and gets killed. Planets fall with the PDF, and are reconquered with the arriving of the Guard. They don't back down, they are made to win, and winning is what they do, no matter the cost.

And just to top it off, and old saying amongst artillery officers :wink:

"Infantry win firefights.
Tanks win battles.
Artillery win wars"


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## AgentOrange24 (Mar 25, 2010)

Sephyr said:


> The much-beloved 3.5 codex did a better job of making the traitors seem scary (the tale of a champion's ascension to Daemon Prince was quite interesting), but they actually went for the "It's all part of the plan" gambit, or, as we call in in Warcraft Lore, pulling a Kael-Thas.
> 
> "See, all those defeats -looked- like failures to your puny mind! But They were all carefully prepared steps for my final triumph, which you are POWERLESS to stop!"
> 
> ...


Just wanted to say... "Tempest Keep was merely a set back!"


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## The Boz (Aug 16, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> Abaddon is much like Horus in the fact that he is a puppet to higher powers, the Chaos gods decide if he will win or not.
> Horus was used by the big four, Erebus and Lorgar. It's a bit of a leap but maybe the Chaos Gods don't want to win, maybe things as they are suit them just fine.
> It says in Legion that if the Imperium were to fall then Horus would destroy the galaxy and the Chaos powers along with it, surely Tzeench and co. would have worked that out too.
> In Nemesis Erebus has concerns that Horus is deviating from the plans laid down by Lorgar and that the Heresy is going off track.
> ...


When you think about it, none of the Chaos gods really want to win. Slaanesh doesn't care about winning, while the other three would actually prefer NOT to win, with Tzeentch being the questionable one who likes change, but wants to maintain an environment that supports change.
It's the various champions, chaos lords and sorcerers with very human ambitions that actually want to _win_.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

hailene said:


> Which begs the question, why don't the Chaos gods open up a path for them? It doesn't have to be permanent. Just a few months.


The Chaos Gods are capable of forging warp rifts and storms across the galaxy to usher in daemonic incursions. I imagine similarily they are capable of calming or dissipating a warp storm in a given area for a short amount of time (to allow a fleet easy passage for example). But ultimately the reason why this is done so rarely is because it uses a fair amount of a Chaos Gods' energy to do so and thus leaves them vulnerable in the Great Game, or so says the Codex anyway.


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

I am still shocked about what seems scary to some and not others. No accounting for human opinion etc, etc. So I'll give my opinions. Remember folks just my opinion. After all, fears and menace levels are all relative are they not? I, for example, am much more scared of spiders than bears. Your methods may vary...

Tau - The only thing scary about the Tau are those massive railguns. Their small population and limited warp travel capabilities make them a nuissance at best. Now throw in another 6,000 years of evolution and that could change very, very easily...

Orks - Sorry green, knuckle dragging, gorillas just don't scare me. I'd take Yarrick over Ghazghkull any day of the week and twice on Friday. What's scary about orks are their numbers. But then again wouldn't that make any foe scary? Some anti-fungal spray at your local pharmacy should do the trick. Their constant infighting, limited intellect and tech also make them a nuissance.

Dark Eldar - Don't get me wrong. Torture would suck. Really, really suck. Especially considering the dark eldar are the masters of torture, it would really, really, really suck. Other than that, I'm just not impressed. They're hit and run scavengers at best, confined to one city. They remind me of Somali pirates near the Red Sea and Indian Ocean. Almost desperate at times. They could never hope to stand up against any army head to head, including those mentioned above. In a galactic sense the term nuissance is a compliment to them.

The Eldar - If we were talking about the eldar at their apex, this would be an entirely different report. But we're not. Bottom line, they're refugees. They're scattered all over the galaxy. Simlply put if they were a great threat, then they wouldn't be the refugees. Their time has come and gone and they know it. The craftworlds are all they have left and the exodites are nothing more than Amish elves. Plus for some reason when I see an elf, they remind me of hunger strike prisoners that haven't eaten in ages. I feel like they would easily break in half over my knee. In their current state they are a low threat at best.

Chaos - I'll include both the chaos daemons and chaos marines together for simplification. First things first. This is the year 2010. If I saw a giant, winged and horned demon wielding a battle axe the size of a small building on a battlefield I would probably shit myself until my colon shriveled down to nothingness. But alas, the setting of our beloved world is 380 centuries later in the future. A grim, dark future. At this point fire & brimstone, the devil and the bogeyman just don't scare me. Exterminatus? Now that's some scary shit to have nightmares about (See Imperium below). As far as chaos marines go, I've got 3 words for you: Abaddon the Re-fail-ior. The biggest obstacle to chaos is... well it's chaos itself. The chaos marines are puppets to the chaos gods. If the gods of chaos were given the opportunity to destroy the Emperor, they would end up killing each other just because they wouldn't be able to decide on how to do it. Bottom line here (and in most fiction), evil always turns and feeds upon itself. They get awarded a moderate threat at best just for sheer persistence.

Necrons - These crazy ol' bots rank in the top 3 armies I don't want to see on the battlefield in the grim darkness of the far future (or present or past for that matter). They fill two nasty archetypes simultaneously: 1) evil sentient robots bent on the destruction of all life in the universe and 2) the ever-coming-at-you-slowly-but-coming-at-you-nonetheless undead. Their numbers are completely unknown and they seem to appear out of nowhere at times and vanish just as quickly when need be. They may even be under your feet without you even knowing about. Plus anything that goes down and doesn't stay down is just fucking wrong and disturbing. Threat level = $&@?#%*+€£¥ing high!!!!!

Tyranids - One word... Bugs. I hate bugs. Seriously. I hate bugs. All bugs. Even the nice ones. I hate them all! So the idea of gargantuan, psychic, space faring bugs just scares the shit out of me all the more. If there's one threat the Imperium takes seriously it's the gorram 'nids. Just ask the tau, they know it. Actually if it wasn't for warp storms and the 'nids the tau may not even exist. Their hive fleets are reminiscent of ancient cataclysmic swarms of locusts only a lot more scarier. A lot more. No more than that. Much more than that. Way more scarier trust me. Threat level is extremely high.

The Imperium - 'Nuff said. Seriously. The Milky Way should be renamed the Terran Way or the Emperor's Way. We are top of the food chain. The apex predator. We have the almost limitless combined might of the imperial guard and navy, countless chapters of space marines, the all knowing Inquisition, but more importantly we have the carrion lord himself, the undying Emperor. For some reason people often think of the Imperium as the "good guys." (The tau are much more benevolent imo) This is simply not true. If there is one thing that man is "good" at, it is killing and destroying. If we need to remind ourselves to the lowly depths of morality man is capable of, all we need to do is look at our own history. It's a good thing that the Imperium has many enemies or we would end up destroying each other (it's 2010 now and we've come close a few times already and we're defintely not in the clear yet). Can you say exterminatus? Come on boys and girls, together now... Ex-ter-min-a-tus!!! We are the most dominant species in the galaxy and biggest threat to any one single species out there. Period.

Once again folks. Just my opinion. Nothing factual. Just more opinion for the fluff!!! Enjoy!


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## Stealth_Vulture (Jun 21, 2010)

I'd be more afraid of 'nids than the imperials though, IMO. Not because of the fact they are giant bugs, but the fact that they can survive that exterminatus you just called, laugh at you, and send in a couple bigger bugs. There is no way to escape the nids, they have conquered at least one galaxy, probably more, so they have, literally, limitless resources.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

I thought it might be fun but here goes. 

Tau- Slight: Sorry they're not worth getting out of bed for. They're easily beaten annoyingly preachy and go splat far too easily.

Eldar - Low: I dunno they have nice guns and decently skilled warriors. But they're dieing off. So while I can respect them as opponents (and the players who use them tend to be really good I find) I find their level of menace low. 

Necrons - Moderate: While I find the C'Tan scary enough the Crons aren't really that menacing mainly because a three legged spaniel can give them the run around. They're so slow they're dogmatic and quite frankly if it wasn't for that "We'll be back" rule they wouldn't be that hard in the first place. 

Dark Eldar - Moderately High: Now you're talking. I find the idea of a race of nutters who would torture you to death and have weaponry designed not to kill but to hurt you pretty damn scary! They don't just kill you :shok:

Tyranids - High: The nids are pretty damn nasty they're decent in a fight but the main fear is looking at a Swarm and saying to yourself "We can't kill all of that!" 

Orks - Extreme!: These guys scare the ever loving crap out of me. Theres millions of them, they can rip you apart in close combat and they take a hell of a beating before they go down. Despite the fact they're mainly used as comic relief in the novels the idea of fighting 40'000 howling nutters isn't a nice one. 

Chaos - Pants Wetting: Holy CRAP! Everybody goes on about Abbadon but how many have actually thought about what he's capable of? Him and his black legion of maniacs! And they're not even the worst of it! Imagine having the World Eaters bearing down on you! Or fighting the Emperor's Children, an army of insane loons who scream with orgasmic joy every time you hurt them! Or laying coughing up your own lungs as the Death Guard just advance over you! 
Christ nothing in the galaxy could be more menacing...unless...

Imperium of Man - Just kill yourself now!: Everything previously mentioned is pretty nasty but who are the guys who've been fighting and beating them for 10k years? Imagine having to face down the massed guns of the Imperial Guard 50'000 lads standing in rank and every single one of them firing like crazy at you! Seeing the Horizan erupt like a Volcano as the tanks open fire and the ground just exploding around you. 
Imagine standing there doing battle with all that when you hear the screaming of the drop pods and your suddenly hurled in the air as it smashes home and an army of Armoured giants is suddenly in your battle line tearing your mates apart! You call for support and discover your support has been smashed into atoms by the advancing form of a God Machine from mars! YOU'RE DEAD AND YOU KNOW IT! :hang1:

I would probably drown in a puddle of my own wee faced with that!


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Coder59 said:


> Orks - Extreme!: These guys scare the ever loving crap out of me. Theres millions of them, they can rip you apart in close combat and they take a hell of a beating before they go down. Despite the fact they're mainly used as comic relief in the novels the idea of fighting 40'000 howling nutters isn't a nice one.


It's more like trillions of them (they're even supposed to be more numerous than humans). Also, unlike humans, nearly every single ork is a warrior. In the 4th codex it also states that there are more ork empires than ever before and more and more of them are fighting for the same cause. Also, because of tyranid incursions, the ultramarines can no longer keep all the ork empires (including Charadon) in their area in check anymore which means the number of serious ork incursions are only gonna increase. Also, as Coder59 mentioned they're hard to kill. Really hard. Being able to have your head chopped off and stuck on another body is more than a neat party trick. And though ork tech seems crude, the fact remains that it is still extremely effective. As such, I would say the orks are pretty high up on the threat list.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

People are rating the Imperium WAY too high.
They are insignificant in comparison to Nids, Orks, and Necrons.
The only reason the Imperium think that they are top shit is because they are too big headed to think otherwise.

The biggest threat to the galaxy would be if the Tyranids gained the knowledge to "farm" Orks.
Kill out a whole planet (or multiple planets), drop a few Ork bodies around the planets in random spots, bodies give off millions of spores, then when the planets population builds (quite quickly too) the Nids come in and harvest, converting the biomatter into more nid creatures and leaving a couple of dead bodies to repeat the process.

1 piece of basic knowledge and the whole galaxy will be overrun by Nids.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

KingOfCheese said:


> People are rating the Imperium WAY too high.
> They are insignificant in comparison to Nids, Orks, and Necrons.
> The only reason the Imperium think that they are top shit is because they are too big headed to think otherwise.
> 
> ...


Letting an Ork population spread unchecked is an extremely risky thing to do, even for Nids. Firstly, you don't know if they'd even be able to take the planet back (the stronger the opponent the harder the Orks will fight) and even if the Orks get killed, any delay would probably be detrimental to the Nids. All that has to happen is the Orks hold back the Nids for a while, those Imperial assholes get wind of it and then it's exterminatus time for everyone (coz' we know the Imperium would rather blow up a planet than let anyone else have it).


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

If the planet is stripped bare, then the Orks will have nothing to fight with except for their bare fists.
A population with no resources could be kept in check quite easily with regular harvests.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

KingOfCheese said:


> If the planet is stripped bare, then the Orks will have nothing to fight with except for their bare fists.
> A population with no resources could be kept in check quite easily with regular harvests.


LOL, just had a vision of a feral Ork flinging some poor, unsuspecting Gretchen at a Hive Tyrant. Luckily, Nids don't think in a 'regular harvest' sort of way. They're more like Homer Simpson in that aspect. Polish everything edible off the one table before moving on to the next.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

To those of you rating the Imperium above the necrons, yes exterminatus is nasty. But I am not aware of any Imperial ship that can suck the life out of a star and then use it to fuel weapons. Necrons win.  

Also, the c`tan can do much the same thing, WITHOUT a ship. So  again.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

KingOfCheese said:


> The only reason the Imperium think that they are top shit is because they are too big headed to think otherwise.


More like the Imperium has been fighting and beating everybody for ten thousand years.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

> More like the Imperium has been fighting and beating everybody for ten thousand years.


It's only a matter of time...


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

DestroyerHive said:


> It's only a matter of time...



Who knows? It's possible. Like I said earlier in my mega long post before, the Eldar were top dogs before the Imperium. Sure it's possible that the terrans could go the way of the eldar. I also noted that in another 6000 years, the tau might be the king of the hill. But as of right now, humanity is the apex predator. Could it change??? Yes, but highly unlikely. I have faith in the Emperor!!!:threaten:


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## Yog-Sothoth (Jan 8, 2010)

The Emperor is dead

Sorry my Chaos side can't help it.

The Imperium could fall at any second, Tzeentch could just pull a couple of strings and Ta-Da no more Imperium, he just doesn't want to. Your Imperium is weak. Chaos is strong!


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Yog-Sothoth said:


> The Emperor is dead
> 
> Sorry my Chaos side can't help it.
> 
> The Imperium could fall at any second, Tzeentch could just pull a couple of strings and Ta-Da no more Imperium, he just doesn't want to. Your Imperium is weak. Chaos is strong!



Actually the Emperor is not dead. The golden throne hasn't failed... yet. 

Sorry. Chaos is not strong. Let me know when Abaddons 14th black failure starts. 

For the Emperor!!!:victory:


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## BearsofLeon (Feb 6, 2010)

Actually, in the rule book, it says that in year "998.41M there are failures in the golden throne beyond the ability of the Mechanicus to repair"

Boom, headshot.

Also, I have to say that the Eldar are very dangerous. Reason *SPOILER ALERT* 
In Legion, based on the Eldar principles of Farseeing, the Cabal shows Alpharius Omegon the two outcomes of the Heresy. The eldar are very good at manipulating and conversing with other xenos.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

BearsofLeon said:


> Also, I have to say that the Eldar are very dangerous. Reason *SPOILER ALERT*
> In Legion, based on the Eldar principles of Farseeing, the Cabal shows Alpharius Omegon the two outcomes of the Heresy. The eldar are very good at manipulating and conversing with other xenos.


Yeah, but they don't have the manpower or resources to make it count. Sure, they'll manipulate a situation to their advantage and a couple million humans will die to save a favourite Eldar picnic spot, but the fact remains, millions of guardsman die every day so the damage the Eldar are currently inflicting is fairly negligible.


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