# How do I learn new tactics.



## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

I was in my local GW the other day asking questions about a few different factions. Naturally the grey knights came up as I've read a few places that people claim they are OP. One of the workers there pointed out that at 12" range they are just space marines and if you are playing as orks shoota boys can overwhelm them at range. My question is how do I learn things like that. What can I study so I can formulate tactics and know how to manage different units.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

You have to understand the armies out there and figure out how they are used. One cannot formulate a tactic without understanding your enemy. Another thing that can be done is instead of following what others say is to expierment and find what works and doesn't work, a good way of doing this is running mock games versus yourself because you will be able to think tactically on both sides of the battle unbiasly. 

Another good thing to rememberis always try to be one step ahead of your opponent. You want to be able to anticapate what your opponent is going to do next I do this mostly by attempting to predict their next two moves. 

Most of all be sure you understand all the rules and fully know how your army works. Though you might find things that don't work fluff wise but work game wise, in which case you have to remember its a game and if you want to win you really need to think outside the box and one key factor of all is controlling your opponent without them knowing it.

Another thing to think about is your army composition. If you say are playing a 500pt game think about what most people would take and what your opponent is expecting and then do the opposite. same goes with larger games.

I play daemons an army that you can't be too fluffy with because each unit is very specific in what they are used and designed for, if you choose to run an all one god army with them you limit yourself and your effectivness is lost and since they have a such a random nature you have to figure out how to think on the fly. 

Math hammer will go far, but in the end it all depends on how you utilyze the army you field.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

So doing things like reading the codex's of each faction helps with the knowledge as well as reading the rule book.


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## OpTi (Aug 29, 2009)

Read every codex and play as many games as possible against good players(this is important, you'll learn nothing if you win every game), the latter will help you more than anything imo, losing to a good player will let you easily see the weak points in your tactics and army list.

When i play a pretty 1 sided game i'll usualy have a chat with my opponent and regardless of who won we'll help each other on what mistakes we made, what could've been done to handle certain situations and if any list changes should be made.

Also ask for a full run down of your opponents army before playing. Not suggesting to check up on them it's just so you can fully understand what they have and if you don't know what a piece of wargear or a special rule does, you can ask before the game begins instead of it cropping up mid game.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

one of the popular ideas here is to play a friendly game with people and swap armies for the second game. that way you see get a mini version of how their army works.

this way you can come to understand how some things work with the opposing codex.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

You could also just read all the other armies' Tactica Threads/Articles to get a grip on what makes them tick, and how they handle particular lists etc....that's one of the huge pluses of Forums like Heresy.


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## Zaiko (Jul 11, 2011)

Read. You could buy a pot full of old heroclix or mage knight figures and proxy armies to fight vs yourself easy.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

one thing i do is read ever dex out and i always bring those dexes with me in case my opponent makes very questionable move. Believe me nothing makes a cheater angrier than a guy that knows his shit... 

When it comes to writing a good list you gotta pick units that like in your own personal opinion. Many will tell don't use posessed marines they suck, but you may like them and may even have found an effective tactic for that unit that works for you so take them you have to remember most of the fun of the game is the trial and error process so when you decide to enter a tournament you now know what works and doesn't work for you. Let me tell you when your taking on the tournemenet scene there are a couple of things to take in account.

!. You gotta bring your A game and not give a damn about how fluffy your army will be run and think more on the game terms level.
2. Be ready to take down cheating assholes! Believe me Tournaments can bring the many of the worse and un sporty players out there, Im talkin rules lawyers, loop hole revealers, and just plain arrogant cheating butt cracks...

Sorrry there is a reason I no longer play tournaments today an dthe main reason is that and that alone, Ive had tourny games where Ive forfeited just becaus eI couldn't take my opponents cheating and rules lawyering and the Mods complete disregard to it all as things happened.


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

You are only as good as your opponents, so find more skilled opponents.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

HOBO said:


> You could also just read all the other armies' Tactica Threads/Articles to get a grip on what makes them tick, and how they handle particular lists etc....that's one of the huge pluses of Forums like Heresy.


Also one of the things that give me a headache. I'm browsing for ork tactics and such now but if anyone has any good links I'd be glad to see them.


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## Groedius (May 9, 2011)

I think for tactics the best way to work it out is to figure out what you want YOUR army to do for YOU. Thats 1 of the main things and the main thing to stick to. For example you essentially want to pick each unit in your army with a purpose in mind for that unit and how you will use that unit. The other thing I also have learned more about lately is say the use of a sacrifical unit. For example you know your unit A can take out his unit A but you might lose most of your best unit in this trade off however this Unit A is in range to charge your unit B which it is going to murder. 

Also just simply throwing an unit that is more dispenable at an enemy to keep them in combat so your hard combat unit can get in on the next turn. 

The main thing you need to do is work out your army and how you want it to play. Then ofcourse reading up on the other codex's so you do not get any nasty suprises would also be very helpful. This way you will know what your opponents army is capable of doing and can try to counter act that.

I have also found that you can learn more from losing a game then you can from winning because in a game were you lose you can analyse the game to see if you made any mistakes and exactly what went wrong. This would then mean you would not make that same mistake again.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Some tips, in order of importance:

- Disregard anything you are told by a Games Workshop employee. Experiment with doing the opposite of what they say.
- Play games. You will see what works and what doesn't. Reading alone is not enough.
- Read stuff if you want, but understand that you are reading other people's opinions and nothing more... except if it's me saying it. Then it's a fact.
- After a game, go to the pub and talk to your opponent about the game. He just played against you so he knows what worked and what didn't. Your opponent's perspective on your army can be very valuable, because there will be some units he was scared of and others that he could safely ignore. Get rid of the guys he could ignore.
- Lots of people read Sun Tzu, Macchiavelli etc. They aren't long books actually so go ahead if you want. They aren't directly applicable to 40k, but you get to see how these guys' minds work, which is a useful lesson.
- Play more games.

There are some good tips earlier in this thread. What Groedius says about designing an army list to a plan is very good advice. Lots of people buy units basically at random, ending up with one of everything and then try to work out a strategy with what they have. They lose, more often than not.

It's generally best to build an army around troops. Think about what your troops are good at and how to make them work best. Then, look at what they struggle at and get something to help them out. Non-troop units are for doing what troops cannot do. Generally speaking, you are going to want something to kill vehicles and something quick, because troops don't tend to be brilliant in these areas.


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## paolodistruggiuova (Feb 24, 2010)

Reaper45 said:


> Also one of the things that give me a headache. I'm browsing for ork tactics and such now but if anyone has any good links I'd be glad to see them.


you dont have to look far, Culler's Tactica is one of the best you'll find on the web imo, it really pushed my orks Win/Loss ratio skyhigh (along with playing 1game a day for a month ofc )

The base for being competitives with orks is ''specializing'' (full Battlewagons, full horde, full nob bikers, full kans etc) but those kind of armies play in really different ways so you should play loads of games to understand what works and what not.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Someguy said:


> Some tips, in order of importance:
> 
> - Disregard anything you are told by a Games Workshop employee. Experiment with doing the opposite of what they say.
> - Play games. You will see what works and what doesn't. Reading alone is not enough.
> ...


Some good advice here, and I must add troops are one of the single most valuable units in the game right now since only they can hold obj.


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## wallythewise (Jun 1, 2011)

if your trying to develop new tactics the most importaint thing is to try new things with your army. Each list of any given army has only so many tactics it can deploy with few that obviously present themselves. By playing new lists new tricks and tactics will reveal themselves. Once youve found them and how they work incorporating them into a competative list shouldnt be to hard.( if the tactic is worth it).

Me and my friend take turns playing WTF lists once a week where we proxy the crap out of everything and try random stuff that weve never tried before and probably wont work on the off chance that we might find something... it is extreamly helpfull because even though the list is shit it shows you a new strategies that your tourny army could use to confound the enemy.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

experimenting is definately a good thiing, if you ask one member on named Warlock in Training he will tell you that I tend to use some very odd and weird things that may not always work but at times I find a new way of using a paticular unit that gives ahwole new meaning to the use of that unit.


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## 123birds (May 17, 2009)

Here are a few general things to do to be able to form tactics.
1. Ask to see the opponents codex and list before the game. Note down everything that can harm you. If your mech, write down the melta gun and heavy weapon units. If your mass infantry write down the flamers etc. I've had games almost be lost because i didn't take the game seriously and had a melta gun lead to me losing a large portion of my army.

2. Make a plan before the game starts after deployment. Don't be like I'm going to move this here....ok now next unit. Think like this unit will be going this way along with x other units to serve y purpose. Follow what ever role you give each unit and don't change it unless something detrimental happens (loss of transport/heavy weapon) or they finish the assigned role.

3. Choose your priority targets. If your mech against GKs, your going to focus the riflemen dreads not the lightning claw CC unit in the crusader (bad example since LRs suck in general but ya just an example).

4. Be willing to sacrifice units to achieve a goal. He has a hardcore cc unit about to charge your anti tank unit. Put a tank screen or troop screen there to stop them.


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