# Chaos Marines vs. Star Wars!!!!



## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

Go Chaos!!!!


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

Haha this is even more complicated than Empire vs Imperium.

A Daemon Prince with Warptime versus a Jedi Master would be fun though


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## vorbis (Nov 20, 2007)

choas definatly they dont need to worry about logistics or even reality as we know it plus the empire may be ready for war but are they ready for slannesh


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## Azarius (Jul 22, 2008)

Darth Vader and the dark side any day.

Your lack of faith is disturbing.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

the empire would be fucked if it attacked the eye of terror.

sorry to say but even palpatine, as evil has he is, would shit himself in the eye. never mind any of his forces. 

chaos would gladly throw every slave and cultist at the empire to soften them up then send in the big boys to totally wipe them out. the darksiders would probably embrace chaos and start to worship chaos undivided instead.


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Hell alpha legion would problably go and turn half the empire to chaos and have them erupt in galactic civil war oh wait...:shok: maybe they already did mwhahahahaha :laugh:


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Sadly I think it would be Star Wars every time- if its up in the air whether it would be a win for the Imperium or SW then Chaos (specifically the Traitor Marines) have got bugger all chance. Chaos couldn't even take the Imperium in a one-on-one fight (remember all those Black Crusades are resisted by only a fraction of the Imperium's total strength.


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

The problem with star Wars here is that their soldiers have no great moral requirement. Vader would likely be tempted by Chaos and lead a Great Heresy against the Emperor, if the Emperor himself didn't turn to Chaos!

Furthermore, the Empire is likely to win battles, but Chaos actually has a neverending resource train thanks to Daemons. At best for the Empire, a standstill, much like the one in 40k, would be established. It's quite likely that The Empire would split.

Think about it: Khornate Stormtroopers. They would happen.


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

im sorry i like star wars and all but if you think star wars would win u either cant be serious or u like star wars so much you have convinced yourself that they could actually win storm troopers are like grots to space marines and if that piece of shit suit is called armour theyr fucked against space marines seriously theyr prolly weaker than flashlights (las guns)  and darth vader is totally a pussy compared to a space marine scout seriously.....


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

especially chaos legionaires from the traitor legions. they woudlnt stand a chance the average troop choice for chaos is either a daemon or chaos marine and if those are their average troops then SW doesnt stand a chance


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

BlackApostleVilhelm said:


> especially chaos legionaires from the traitor legions. they woudlnt stand a chance the average troop choice for chaos is either a daemon or chaos marine and if those are their average troops then SW doesnt stand a chance


FUCK YES!!!!!!!!!!!!:victory: I JUST HOPE DANEEL DOESNT POST ON THIS FORUM WITH A LONG WINDED POINTLESS DEFENSE FOR STAR WARS EVEN THOUGH THEY INEVITABLY SUCK COMPARED TO CHAOS EVEN NORMAL MARINES WOULD RIP ANY STORMTROOPER OR MANDOLORIAN 

CHAOS FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

:fuck:

How's that for short.

And for your information, I wasn't mounting a defense of Star Wars. I was making a Comparison between the two. Can't help if you didn't like it. Don't really care either come to think of it.


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

Even if he does post math, the fact that Heresy would spread in the ranks of the Empire is unquestionable. I wonder what Tzeentch would do with a battalion of Stormtroopers...

Oh, and math has a place... it just shouldn't be the mainstay of all arguementation when discussing fictional universes.


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Nor was it the mainstay of the argument. Just a starting place. If your opinion differs, I'd suggest you actually read what I had to say, rather than make bold, false assumptions.


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

i meant no personal offense to you i was just making a statement no malcontent involved the posts were sorta long though atleast they werent mindless dribble


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Yea they were long. Better a single long post that a bunch of small ones right in a row I figured. Besides, it takes a while to post that kind of involved comparison.


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

yeh they were nice just didnt feel like taking the time to scroll all the way through  i read a few though you did your research but i still think chaos would win since the empire is not experienced in dealing with chaos mind powers and such i mean do jedi and sith lords have the power to completely unravel someones mind? and theyd be ill equipped to resist (if they werent dead already :laugh


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

That's part of the reason I suggested that the Chaos comparison go in a different thread. Their ways of making war are radically different.

Personally, I don't think SW is prepared to fight a Chaos style war. Their daemons and such aren't really the issue, it is the corrupting influence of Chaos that is what I think tips the balance in their favor.

The fight vs. strictly men and machines would be more overwhelming against Chaos than it is vs. the Imperium.

However, chaos cults, chaos influenced sith, and a whole new Heresy as portions of the Empire rebelled are highly intriguing possibilities.


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

AWESOME!!!!!! though i highly doubt a merger will ever happen... no wait a minute i KNOW it will never happen anyway star wars is too happy i dont like it as much as 40k UNWORTHY!!!! UNWORTHY!!!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

Daneel2.0 said:


> Nor was it the mainstay of the argument. Just a starting place. If your opinion differs, I'd suggest you actually read what I had to say, rather than make bold, false assumptions.


I see my bold false assumption is eclipsed by your own. Who says I said it was you who was using math as the mainstay?

My main complaint is that the logical arguements given by myself and a few others was completely ignored due to the fact we didn't have equations in our arguements.

So instead of assuming that I'm assuming, you should know that I had no problem with anything you said or did. It was what others did with your math and their blatant disregard of any other form of logic or thinking. I _did_ read what you had to say, as well as what everyone else said, but all of the key points I raised were totally ignored because I was accused of saying OMG SPACE MARINES RULES!!!!1 Rhetorical thinking I find to be much more applicable in topics such as these, and my rhetorical arguements were utterly ignored. Don't take what I say personally, because I found your comments enlightening. Did you read mine?

Oh, and I don't really think there would be much of a war between the Empire and Chaos. The Empire is more likely to join Chaos than they are to fight it!


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

BlackApostleVilhelm said:


> especially chaos legionaires from the traitor legions. they woudln't stand a chance the average troop choice for chaos is either a daemon or chaos marine and if those are their average troops then SW doesn't stand a chance


The standard troops for Chaos are cultists and traitor guardsmen.

Daemons can only be summoned in extraordinary circumstances, while there can be only about as many Chaos marines as loyalist, and possibly less due to difficulty in replacing losses.

Still regarding the main topic the corrupting influence would crush them utterly, it nearly took out the Imperium even with the knowledge of the warp and the strong faith of the warriors.

Still by the time the Empire killed itself they probably would have killed most of the legions and cultists thanks to space supremacy, the poorly maintained, damaged and low in numbers (compared to the Imperium or Empire) fleet would be crushed, leaving the troops vulnerable. Only those still in the eye could survive, possibly followed by a massive fleet that simply goes missing, only to re-emerge on Chaoses side.


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

thomas remember they are in the eye theyd be corrupted and crushed in no time by the legion i bet theyd only need one company of chaos marine (if even) to destroy a whole deathstar, and them destroying the legions!?!?!?! doubted each planet is an impregnable fortress in itself, and remember the deathstars main laser doesnt even work, 4 lasers cannot combine into one straight line theyd just go through eachother, so empire has no planet destroying tech... guess who does? yes chaos does theyd rape the deathstar and star destroyers and itd be even easier with over half the empire corrupted for it to be destroyed, because who wouldnt want to get rid of palpatine?


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

NoiseMarine said:


> thomas remember they are in the eye theyd be corrupted and crushed in no time by the legion i bet theyd only need one company of chaos marine (if even) to destroy a whole deathstar, and them destroying the legions!?!?!?! doubted each planet is an impregnable fortress in itself,


No, not really. A single company of chaos marines is less than a drop in the bucket elite troops inside a Death Star. Remember please that Storm Troopers are just the main line pleeb fighter. There are Battalions of elite troops inside the Death Star.



NoiseMarine said:


> and remember the deathstars main laser doesnt even work, 4 lasers cannot combine into one straight line theyd just go through eachother, so empire has no planet destroying tech... guess who does? yes chaos does theyd rape the deathstar and star destroyers and itd be even easier with over half the empire corrupted for it to be destroyed, because who wouldnt want to get rid of palpatine?


Lets not start the "This tech won't work" line of arguments as practically everything in both universes isn't workable in a "REAL" tech situation. 

As for over 1/2 of Empire switching sides, that's a LARGE leap. Especially since it isn't certain whether or not the Empire would simply join as a whole leaving nothing to war about. 

The real difference I think is whether or not Palpatine and Vader decided to join Chaos. Their battle meld abilities would either completely prevent or completely corrupt the rest of their armies (at least those w/in the meld)


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Zorenthewise said:


> I see my bold false assumption is eclipsed by your own. Who says I said it was you who was using math as the mainstay?
> 
> My main complaint is that the logical arguements given by myself and a few others was completely ignored due to the fact we didn't have equations in our arguements. So instead of assuming that I'm assuming, you should know that I had no problem with anything you said or did.


Ok. I made no assumptions. I said "IF YOUR OPINION DIFFERS" then the rest of the argument. If your opinion doesn't differ, no problems :so_happy:



Zorenthewise said:


> It was what others did with your math and their blatant disregard of any other form of logic or thinking. I _did_ read what you had to say, as well as what everyone else said, but all of the key points I raised were totally ignored because I was accused of saying OMG SPACE MARINES RULES!!!!1 Rhetorical thinking I find to be much more applicable in topics such as these, and my rhetorical arguements were utterly ignored. Don't take what I say personally, because I found your comments enlightening. Did you read mine?


I did read your arguments and responded as well. The main issue I had was your total disregard of the math that I use as a counter argument. 

To give a hypothetical if I say "Death Star deals this much damage" and you say "Death star could never kill Battleship because of shields" and I respond with "Battleship shields are only X% of Star Destroyer Shields therefore still destroys" your rhetoric arguments of "Well when hit by 40K weapons the shields work this well" is not a useful argument. This is due to the bridging universes problem. 

There is NO way to compare weapons or armor or ships across the systems without some kind of base line to compare them. The math provides this base line. 



Zorenthewise said:


> Oh, and I don't really think there would be much of a war between the Empire and Chaos. The Empire is more likely to join Chaos than they are to fight it!


That could very well be. That is one of the issues that I find interesting in this line of conjecture vs the Imperium thread


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

I never made the arguement of a superlaser vs. 40k shields. 40k shields flat out suck, and the superlaser would definately destroy 40k ships. I was debating turbolaser batteries versus Imperial gun batteries, which we do not have a number of. I guess my translation was that a TIE fighter would likely be equipped with the equivalent of two lascannon. I used logic to figure that turbolasers are a bit more powerful than that and compared lascannons with the batteries on the 40k ship, which are also a bit more powerful than that. Not as mathematical, but it made sense to me.

Also, I even said, I enjoyed your responses. It was the others ignoring of my arguements that annoyed me. I know you read my arguements and responded well, but others should have as well!

As for not making assumptions, you told me to not assume, which I did not. So therefore, you did, in fact, assume taht I was assuming. A trivial point to say the least, and I don't really care about this one. 

Oh, and I believe that if the Emperor did not join Chaos, Vader would. He always harbored some doubt towards the Galactic Empire, and I believe he the Chaos gods would tempt him quite easily. They turned Horus' slight bitterness and made it into a split of an Empire, they could probably do it with Vader, especially if Tzeentch convinced him that the Emperor killed Padme


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

Zorenthewise said:


> ...especially if Tzeentch convinced him that the Emperor killed Padme


You know, I had that thought last night, too. I can see Tzeentch's messenger (because you know he'd send a lackey for this one, none of this "oh, but it was only a dream," sort of thing) saying, "Oh? You didn't know? How terrible..." 

So, here we go, I'm going to make a broad jump based on the "other" thread, and this one.

Empire cornholes Imperium, Chaos cornholes (maybe better stated as, "Khorneholes") the Empire, so therefore, 40K wins. <chuckles> A grande total of 35 pages of posts between the two threads, and we finally have an answer! Meh. Probably not. Let the debate continue, I've been enjoying kicking back on the sidelines on this one. Good stuff. :laugh:


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

atleast most things in 40k is based in real tech but 4 lasers combining doesnt even make sense at all u dont even have to see it to say no thats not gonna happen


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

NoiseMarine said:


> atleast most things in 40k is based in real tech but 4 lasers combining doesnt even make sense at all u dont even have to see it to say no thats not gonna happen


Um...wait. Like daemons popping out from inside people? Or maybe skies raining blood and screaming skulls (daemonic incursions, a fluff piece in the daemons codex)? How about praying to your equipment, because if you don't, it isn't going to work? Or battlefields where your only goal is to get into close combat (there is a reason melee based infantry isn't around anymore)? Or, how is firing a nuke from a railgun realistic? You do know that the mechanical/engineering requirements pretty much state that the largest titans cannot move, right? Eye of Terror? Wha...?

Point being, there is a lot of shit in *both* universes that should not happen, nor make sense. So, making an arguement of, "That's unrealistic," when speaking of two sci-fi universes that both use a conglomeration of physics and bullshit, really just doesn't fit.


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Zorenthewise said:


> I never made the arguement of a superlaser vs. 40k shields. 40k shields flat out suck, and the superlaser would definately destroy 40k ships.


Hence the "Hypothetical" in my statement. I was giving a general example because I didn't want to have to scan through the other post for a real one.



Zorenthewise said:


> I was debating turbolaser batteries versus Imperial gun batteries, which we do not have a number of. I guess my translation was that a TIE fighter would likely be equipped with the equivalent of two lascannon. I used logic to figure that turbolasers are a bit more powerful than that and compared lascannons with the batteries on the 40k ship, which are also a bit more powerful than that. Not as mathematical, but it made sense to me.


Shipboard weapons are pretty hard to gauge, true. But I don't think twin lascannons are really the answer to the TIE. Besides, the TIE fighters have 4 linked Blaster cannons, not 2.

Beyond that, no, Turbolasers are MUCH stronger than the weapons mounted on a TIE. Just slightly under 3 times more powerful in fact. That isn't just a little more powerful, that's like comparing a Bolter to a Lascannon.

As a side note, I don't fault your reasoning here, just disagree with it. For one thing, Blasters aren't really lasers, although they do use coherent light. It is more like a particle weapon than a laser weapon although some models did use plasma.[/QUOTE]



NoiseMarine said:


> atleast most things in 40k is based in real tech but 4 lasers combining doesnt even make sense at all u dont even have to see it to say no thats not gonna happen


First, see my note above concerning blasters not being lasers. Second, you could do it with a laser with a simple focusing crystal. Since Blasters aren't lasers however, I imagine that the designers decided that the plasma / particle beam was of sufficient mass for standard vector addition to take over.


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Wraithian said:


> Point being, there is a lot of shit in *both* universes that should not happen, nor make sense. So, making an arguement of, "That's unrealistic," when speaking of two sci-fi universes that both use a conglomeration of physics and bullshit, really just doesn't fit.


Well said.


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

Ah... the blasters being particle weaponry does explain a bit. Thanks for that tidbit.

Oh, and noise marine, the four lasers thing really doesn't matter. We're talking about Chaos, a demonic, endless force versus a futuristic totalitarian government that uses magic-esque abilities. Both systems have some really horrible science in several areas!


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

No problem. In case you're curious they also use the "particle beam" line to explain why the lasers make noise when fired. It's still hokey tech though :biggrin:


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## G_Morgan (Mar 3, 2008)

I think people seriously underestimate Palpatine in this thread. The books go much deeper into his powers than the films and he is altogether a hell of a lot more powerful than the films suggest.

In the books it is mentioned how on his private world of Byss he passively consumes the life force of hundreds of thousand of slaves to extend his own life. He is capable of transferring minds between bodies and uses this ability to escape the destruction of the second death star (though he goes into hiding). He uses a galactic scale form of the Jedi battle meditation power to influence the entirety of the Empires forces towards victory.

Lets look at how he creates the Empire as well. He turns the galaxy on itself in civil war and turns one of the greatest heroes of the Republic to his cause and uses him to destroy the Jedi. Unlike Chaos he actually succeeds in conquering the galaxy. It's an act comparable to the Heresy.

Certainly the talk of being ill equipped to deal with corruption. How can a man who is capable of touching billions of lives simultaneously on a galactic scale ever be considered ill equipped for such a task.


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## Dessel_Ordo (Jul 28, 2008)

hate to burst your palpatine buble, but he is a royal pansy compared to real sith, like Darth Bane (read the shit on him, seriously, he is infinitely more powerful than Palpatine)

Chaos Undivided mark + Palpatine or Vader, yea... give that to Bane oh-god-oh-god-WHY???????

I agree that the Empire would likely team up with Chaos

Despite all my jackassery in the "other" thread (I'm sorry Zoren, and any other guys like you I may have driven away, those rather scathing posts I made where aimed at the less intelligent posts, not you guys's posts, I was trying to get rid of the flame-war inciters, not you guys, you were making intelligent posts with good solid and beleivable logic, I'm sorry... and I'm pretty sure Autarch wasn't aiming the bulk of his ire at you guys either (I know him personally, your posts werent the ones he was lashing out at either, he was pretty much in the same boat as me)) I have yet to be convinced that the Empire could beat the Imperium, let alone "corn hole" them, and, whichever side wins, it will get pwned by chaos (I say this with utmost confidence, as my eventual second army WILL be Chaos Daemons, so I'm on your guys side more than neutral here)

It would be hilarius to see a DP tearing the shit out of a stromtrooper, or a dark trooper, or redguards, or, well, anything Imperial really.
lol, or even better, a Steel Legion, chaos possesed Vader slaughtereing everything in sight...

this one goeds to chaos tho (seeing as they have several, more reliable/unblockable ways to get troops onto the ground, and the whole corrupting dealyo (I dont care how "strong" Plapies galaxy-wide battle meld is, seeing as a Jedi master of equal or greater power can negate/outdue/shutdown the sith's version (the original, ironically), and seeing as any one of the fickle four, and perhaps even their greatest greater daemons can outwill palpie could probably still corrupt sizeable chunks of the Empire)


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## AnubisBlade (Aug 5, 2008)

hate to say is but star wars only wins in sheer numbers on the ground (not that numbers matter when chaos can just open the warp and boom there are more of the chaos then them)

star wars...in space it is battle of atrition and how much junk can ya throw at them. don't even think about the deathstar it is useless against chaos fleet when they can bring a planet killer and it is faster and not near as big. 


if SW was to kill off the fleet it still wouldn't bother chaos they get around without ships soo much as is it wouldn't hurt anything really.


my opinion SW looses to chaos


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

Not to mention daemonships and other nasties... Chaos actually has an unlimited supply of daemon possessed ships, which feed off of emotion. They also can phase in and out between the material and the spectral planes, so you never know it you can even shoot them!


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