# From far away Space Marines



## hacknslashgamer (Jan 28, 2009)

I am playing in a tourney with a buddy I have 1000 pnts and so does he if we both play Space Marines I want to stay back and pound my enemy from afar and he is going in close I was thinking for me.
to start 
maby
Librarian
3 tac squads x10 with 3 missile launchers
Devastator squad with 4 missile launchers
Thunderfire Cannon
Whirlwind tank
for about 945pnts

I like lascannons but you can fit more under a missile template causing more casualties and its far enough away to give me more shots off.





Is it over kill to take 4 Hunter killer missiles? Are they even worth the points?

any suggestions "Remember I want to stay back and pound for about 2-3 rounds doing as much damage as possible and then my partner is going to meet them.


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## hacknslashgamer (Jan 28, 2009)

OK I guess I am asking if this tactic will work and how to improve it "I almost put this question in army lists but I need to know how to run a list like this'


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Ok, here we go.

Lascannon and Plasma cannon on the Tactical squads are really cheap, you shouldn't underestimate them; yes the extra anti-infantry of the Missile launcher is of great use, but the Lascannon is still worth consideration as it's a big hit against vehicles, and a Plasma cannon just mauls MEQ, and does pretty well against vehicles.


Librarian, what powers?

Gate of Infinity might be really useful.
Have an important squad in front of the others, and when he's getting close to charge, or the turn after he charges you (it can be used in combat) just teleport them away, leaving the enemy a bit confused and out in the open.

Other than that, only 2 other powers are really useful for long-range combat.

Machine Curse, 24" glance on a 3+, pretty good, especially against tough vehicles like Land Raiders, that glance may just immobilise the thing, that's good for you.

Force Dome, great if you have a Tactical squad who you want to stand in the open, but when the enemy has big guns like a Vindicator.

I'd suggest taking Gate and Machine Curse if he has any Land Raiders or Predators (they're tough from the front)
If he has a good amount of Vindicators, then Force Dome is the way.
Only take Gate if he has assault units of units that need to get close to be effective though, it's an avoidance power for you.


Other than that you're on the right track.


The Thunderfire cannon is VERY fragile remember, you need to have it obscured in some way, or it will die quickly.
If you can, use the Techmarine's fortify ability to improve a ruin to 3+ cover, and camp it in that; don't move it though, as if you roll a 1 for your DT test for the cannon, it dies.

Use Subterranean shots to slow his assault troops down, any Jump infantry hit by it will take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move, which is a 1/6 chance of them dying, quite worthwhile.


Consider taking Assault Marines as a counter-charge unit.
If he assaults you, you want to either get the Librarian to warp the unit away then blow him to bits, or charge them back and hopefully win the combat.


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

I'd swap the whirl wind for a predator with Auto cannon and heavy bolters. They cost the same and the predator gives you improved surviveability, anti transport in it's auto cannon and better average shots against infantry.

Comparitively the whirlwind is massively overpriced compared to the basic predator, except possibly against orks.

I would also look at dropping one of the tac squads and get an outflanking unit of scouts in a land speeder storm.

The only other concern would be the use of the thunder fire cannon. The weapon is great on paper, but unless you get first turn, don't expect it to fire as it will be on the top half of the enemy's priority list of things to go. The fact that you only need to kill it or the tech marine makes it very fragile.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Lash Machine said:


> I'd swap the whirl wind for a predator with Auto cannon and heavy bolters. They cost the same and the predator gives you improved surviveability, anti transport in it's auto cannon and better average shots against infantry.
> 
> Comparitively the whirlwind is massively overpriced compared to the basic predator, except possibly against orks.


You're crazy right?
Any Ordnance Barrage weapon is a great utility, a pinning test at -1 Ld is SO good!

And how the hell do 2 HB and 1 AC get more average hits than a large blast?
Even on a fairly dispersed unit, it's very easy to get upwards of 6 hits, and seeing as the weapon isn't AP3 they're not going to be spacing out fully to avoid it.


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## hacknslashgamer (Jan 28, 2009)

HQ (1) - Space Marine Chaplain + Jump Pack = 115


Fast (1) - 5 Man Assault Marine Squad = 100


Troop (2) - 5 Man Space Marine Tactical Squad (Sgt with Melta Bomb) + Razorback (with TL Lascanon) = 170
5 Man Space Marine Tactical Squad (Sgt with Melta Bomb) + Razorback (with TL Lascanon) = 170


Heavy (3) - Predator Tank + TL Lascanon + Heavy Bolter Side Sponson = 130
Predator Tank + TL Lascanon + Heavy Bolter Side Sponson = 130

5 Man Devastator Marine Squad + 4 Missle Launchers + Drop Pod = 185


Total = 1000


*Could add Hunter Killer Missles to each Predator and give the Assault Sgt a Power Weapon and get rid of Devastator Drop Pod for same cost.

How does this sound I have decided a small up close to protect my long range


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

hacknslashgamer said:


> I am playing in a tourney with a buddy I have 1000 pnts and so does he if we both play Space Marines I want to stay back and pound my enemy from afar and he is going in close I was thinking for me.
> to start
> maby
> Librarian
> ...


I wouldn't bother with the Librarian - a Master of the Forge would be way more useful here; increase the cover that your Dev's are sitting on and then blast away with his conversion beamer.

Also wouldn't bother with Thunderfire/Whirlwind - pick one or the other. Whirlwind is good for the points cost and you can hide it out of LoS - the TFC is good because you can potentially get a lot more hits at S6.


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## hacknslashgamer (Jan 28, 2009)

I am also not sure of the heavy bolter side sponsons if I had lascannon side sponsons on both predators could I fire all 6 lascannons straight forward in 1 turn? Alot of points but also alot of death.

And I couldn't resist the Chaplain leading the assault marines 2 att for an extra weapon 1 att for assaulting=3 att X 5 marines =15 attacks
Is that right getting to reroll all misses when they assault because of the Chappie and that doesn't figure in his attacks


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

bishop5 said:


> I wouldn't bother with the Librarian - a Master of the Forge would be way more useful here; increase the cover that your Dev's are sitting on and then blast away with his conversion beamer.


Keeping in mind of course the fact that there is never a guarantee of having a Ruin partially or wholly in your deployment zone.



hacknslashgamer said:


> I am also not sure of the heavy bolter side sponsons if I had lascannon side sponsons on both predators could I fire all 6 lascannons straight forward in 1 turn? Alot of points but also alot of death.


Keep in mind how EXTREMELY expensive those LC sponsons are.
Yes, if you were stationary you could fire both at the same target forward or back, as the sponsons can aim slightly inwards, and backwards too.

But it's 60 points for 3 weapons which are great against medium vehicles, which all HAVE to shoot at the same target.
I think you'd be better off taking just the TL-LC on the turret, and either having HB or no sponsons.



hacknslashgamer said:


> And I couldn't resist the Chaplain leading the assault marines 2 att for an extra weapon 1 att for assaulting=3 att X 5 marines =15 attacks
> Is that right getting to reroll all misses when they assault because of the Chappie and that doesn't figure in his attacks


And yes, that's right; but remember, one of the Assault Marines is a Sergeant, who has 2 attacks base (meaning 3 with 2 CC weapons) and can take a special weapon.
It's quite deadly for such a small unit.


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

Winterous said:


> You're crazy right?
> Any Ordnance Barrage weapon is a great utility, a pinning test at -1 Ld is SO good!
> 
> And how the hell do 2 HB and 1 AC get more average hits than a large blast?
> Even on a fairly dispersed unit, it's very easy to get upwards of 6 hits, and seeing as the weapon isn't AP3 they're not going to be spacing out fully to avoid it.


Firstly it is very difficult to hide a tank completely in 5th ed rules. I would rather have AV 13 compared to AV11.

Averagely you are going to cause 4 to 5 AP 4 wounds on T4 with the Predator every time you fire. If you fire indirectly with a Whirlwind you have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting your target with an avarage of 7" scatter. Unless the enemy is densley packed the best you can hope for with a hit is 6 hits, turning into 4 wounds on T4.

The other statistical point is that if you shoot a whirlwind at a five strong unit, the best you can get is 5 hits. With the pred you can reasonably expect six hits.

The main advantage, especailly with the army being 1000points, is that the predator is multi functional. The Auto canoon is a good anti transport, light vehicle weapon, which in smaller games, even large for that matter, is very useful.

I'm not mad, I just prefer higher armour values and more acurate shooting and number of shots. not to mention that one weapon destroyed nerfs the whirlwind straight away.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Lash Machine said:


> Firstly it is very difficult to hide a tank completely in 5th ed rules. I would rather have AV 13 compared to AV11.
> 
> Averagely you are going to cause 4 to 5 AP 4 wounds on T4 with the Predator every time you fire. If you fire indirectly with a Whirlwind you have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting your target with an avarage of 7" scatter. Unless the enemy is densley packed the best you can hope for with a hit is 6 hits, turning into 4 wounds on T4.


If it's very difficult to completely obscure your tank, then you won't be scattering very much, as you'll have LOS.

Now I'll admit, against smaller, tougher units, the Predator is better as cover isn't an issue.
But against lighter infantry, the Whirlwind can not only far outclass the direct-fire weapons of a Predator by negating cover saves and hitting far more (due to high numbers), but it also has the option of an AP5 blast which ignores cover, which rocks.

The fact that the Whirlwind basically can't hurt medium vehicles, and is easier to kill, I think it the main downside.
The anti-infantry firepower far exceeds that of a Predator, at least on average (the Predator could always hit with all 8 for example)


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

If you have Twin linked las on both razor backs, you could go for one pred with all las and the other with auto cannon and 2 HB. That being said with 4 twin linked las cannons in the army as it is that will give you some accurate anti vehicle with the heavy bolters doing the infantry work.

I would not give the devastators a drop pod. I would either use the 35 points for some extra marines for them as ablative wounds or increase the size or the assault squad. the other alternative would be to drop them conpletely and add a vindicator.
.
it gives the opponent something to shoot at and worry about. Then use the spare points to bolster the assault marines to make them more effective. 5 marines, even with the chaplin is a small unit


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

Winterous said:


> If it's very difficult to completely obscure your tank, then you won't be scattering very much, as you'll have LOS.
> 
> Now I'll admit, against smaller, tougher units, the Predator is better as cover isn't an issue.
> But against lighter infantry, the Whirlwind can not only far outclass the direct-fire weapons of a Predator by negating cover saves and hitting far more (due to high numbers), but it also has the option of an AP5 blast which ignores cover, which rocks.
> ...


I agree that against light infantry it is most excellent, especially guard and orks and pathfinders hate the anti cover round, but in a tournament situation where you will be playing 3 to 6 games against a variety of opponents I feel that the predator is the better performer and safer bet.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Given the choice (which I suppose I am, as I play marines) I'd take typhoons instead of either predators or whirlwinds. I think their speed and versatility is a real winner, as they can hit almost any target, almost anywhere.

Armour 10 is a problem of course, but the tanks tend to be pretty static and that makes them vulnerable in a metagame full of melta guns and krak grenades; both of which are far less of a problem for a unit that can move 12" and fire at full effect. I find my typhoons still tend to be around at the end of the game and, largely thanks to their transport-hunting skills, they aren't really a liability in KP games.

In more general terms for the list I'd put in some kind of counter-charge unit that could make your army less fun to assault. Dreads and termies are amongst the best options here I think.


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## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

Someguy said:


> Given the choice (which I suppose I am, as I play marines) I'd take typhoons instead of either predators or whirlwinds. I think their speed and versatility is a real winner, as they can hit almost any target, almost anywhere.
> 
> Armour 10 is a problem of course, but the tanks tend to be pretty static and that makes them vulnerable in a metagame full of melta guns and krak grenades; both of which are far less of a problem for a unit that can move 12" and fire at full effect. I find my typhoons still tend to be around at the end of the game and, largely thanks to their transport-hunting skills, they aren't really a liability in KP games.
> 
> In more general terms for the list I'd put in some kind of counter-charge unit that could make your army less fun to assault. Dreads and termies are amongst the best options here I think.


Although I acknowledge that Typhoons are very good, I think that they belie the very unique niche that speeders are able to fill in a loyalist marine army. Armed with meltas, they create huge threat ranges for armor of all kinds, and are incredibly useful for blocking advancing enemy mech movement. The addition of a heavy flamer just adds to their versatility. So although Typhoons aren't bad, they just do something that the rest of your army can do (Predators/dreads deployed well should have LOS to most things, especially considering 5th ed TLoS) already, and take up slots that could be occupied by a unique unit (MM/HF speeders).

Dakka preds are great buys for SM long range firepower. AV13 makes them incredibly hard to crack, and their 85pt cost makes them very easy to slip into your army. Another unit to look into is the Twin TL-AC dread. At 125pts, they are 50% more expensive than a Dakka pred but are capable of moving and firing with increased power and accuracy, and can also assault and tie up light infantry in a pinch.


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## Devinstater (Dec 9, 2008)

Dakka preds are fantastic anti infantry, can pop transports, and have AV 13 on the front. For the same cost of a whirlwind, they basically make whirlwinds obsolete. I have one, and I think my next purchase is two more.

If you are looking at Devastators, and have an Elite slot available, consider shooty dreads as mentioned above. They can move and shoot, and aren't afraid of most infantry running up on them. These two traits are weaknesses of Devastator squads.


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## hacknslashgamer (Jan 28, 2009)

Dreads are cool but then I lose the 4 missile launchers and the sgt from the devastator squad / is it worth the trade will the dread be a good replacement or just a bigger target?


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

hacknslashgamer said:


> I want to stay back


It says you play Blood Angels. You're a disgrace!


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## hacknslashgamer (Jan 28, 2009)

Yeah I switched to Salamanders for this game but I still left in the assault squad 

I still have a small 750 point Blood angels army


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## hacknslashgamer (Jan 28, 2009)

My partner already had an up in your face army and wanted me to play long range assist


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Hehe, don't mind me, I'm just messing around.


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