# Some Bolter questions



## Cold86 (Sep 24, 2010)

a few questions related to the imperiums most recognizable armament.

1. Can magazines from the different patterns of Boltguns be fired from any version boltgun?

2. How much ammunition is carried with an astartes when he drops into battle from a pod?

3. Do magazines from a Bolt pistol fit into a Boltgun and vice versa?

4. Could a Sternguard throw a magazine of there special ammunition to a fellow regular tactical marine for him to use in his Boltgun if say he were low on ammo?

The reason i have questions about this is i was recently conversing with a friend who just returned from afghanistan. We were talking about the weapons employed by the US forces and how if one member of a squad was low on ammo that a buddy would toss him some more. Which is a distinct tactical advantage that ammo is interchangeable between personal, and that the amount carried into the field is a good amount. <- this part comes from recetely reading the FALL OF DAMNOS ultramarine novel. So Sicarius drops in with pods to halt the necrons (Thousands upon thousands the book made it seem like) and whatdaya know alot of the space marines begin running outa ammo HERP DERP. maybe next time plan ahead that you should bring more.

Cold86


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

1. Not sure. I don't think there's been a mention of different marks of magazines. I'm not expert on guns, but I think when most guns change, the ammo (and the magazine that holds it) largely stay the same.

2. Usually a full load in the gun and a couple-few clips in his utility belt thing. More, I suppose, if they don't have an easy to reach resupply point.

3. I'm thinking not. In the Deathwatch rule book it makes particular mention of boltpistols have very small magazines. I'd imagine if they could fit a larger magazine in a boltpistol some marines would.

4. According to the Deathwatch rule book, the answer would be yes. 

For two reasons: First, there are "stalker rounds" that are designed for the Stalker-pattern bolter, but its entry says it can be used in non-Stalker bolters.

Also there are no rules for using a particular gun for special ammunition.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

1. No, you couldnt change ammo from a Mk1 bolter to a MkV for istance, from what i have read in RP books and so on, the types of ammo are different.

2. No idea sorry

3.No

4. i would presume so, as long as it was form the same Mk bolter.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Cold86 said:


> a few questions related to the imperiums most recognizable armament.
> 
> 1. Can magazines from the different patterns of Boltguns be fired from any version boltgun?
> 
> ...


..............


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Ultra111 said:


> Not sure. It would make sense for the adaptions made would make the gun more powerful, so possibly needing a new ammo clip. But then again as far as I know the ammo they use is the same caliber (.75 standard) so if all the marks use the same caliber then they may use the same. I don't know anywhere in fluff wher eit states though.


The bolt pistol and boltgun share the same ammo. On the table top they have the same strength and AP value. The boltgun shoots farther, however.

Even in the Deathwatch RPG book, the boltpistol and boltgun do the same damage and have the same penetration. 



khrone forever said:


> 1. No, you couldnt change ammo from a Mk1 bolter to a MkV for istance, from what i have read in RP books and so on, the types of ammo are different.


Can't say I'm familiar with mark I, mark V bolters. Usually they're given in patterns, like the standard Godwyn-pattern bolter. Could you cite your source?


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

hailene said:


> The bolt pistol and boltgun share the same ammo. On the table top they have the same strength and AP value. The boltgun shoots farther, however.
> 
> Even in the Deathwatch RPG book, the boltpistol and boltgun do the same damage and have the same penetration.


Hmm...It's been a several months since I played, couldn't quite remember if they had the same stats or not, my bad  Thanks for correcting me. I've never loked at the Deathwatch RPG book, not even sure what it is.

In that case it is more likely they are able to, but I still think that the size of the bolt pistol would consequently mean a smaller mag would be needed.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Bolt pistol magazines are smaller. In Deathwatch they're half the size of a regular bolter's 28 round magazine.

The Deathwatch rulebook is a rulebook for the pen and paper RPG. You know how DnD has rule books? Like, skill checks to try to open locks or move stealthily. Or combat rolls where you try to attack and the other person tries to dodge or parry? And then the general bread and butter open-ended roleplaying? Where, unlike a video game, you're free to do whatever you want (with the relevant consequences).

All within the confines of a dungeon/gamemaster's world.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

the source im using is the inquisitor rules book.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Well, first things first, on further reading I got this, "The Deathawtch takes great advantage of variations that have been made on [bolt shells] over the years, yielding a wide variety of alternate rounds that still fire from a standard bolt weapon."

As for the Inquisitor rule book, I just read the section about bolters. Nothing said about them being unable to share ammo, just simply that the four options have different types of magazines (sickle, straight, drum, and belt).


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Speaking from a mechanical standpoint a few things have to be taken into consideration.

Standard bolters are .75 caliber. heavy bolters are .100 So that ammo is not interchangeable.

With bolt pistols the caliber is the same but the length is what matters.

Real life example. The .357 magnum revolver can take .38 special rounds. The .38 is short in length but has the same diameter.

I think the easiest way to tell with a bolter would be the see if it fits in the mag if it does there's a good chance it can be fired. It can be done with .22 shorts in a LR so the same should apply.

even though the ammo might be the same you have to consider the receiver Loyalist marines use mags but chaos marines use clips.

If the receiver will take the mag then it will work.


Disclaimer, we are talking about fictional weapons we have to remember that this is not our world we are talking about therefore physics and engineering principals can't apply.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Reaper, do you know the difference between magazines and clips? Chaos Marines don't use clips.

Also there's no proof that that bolt pistol rounds are shorter, to my knowledge. Can you cite your source?


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

hailene said:


> Reaper, do you know the difference between magazines and clips? Chaos Marines don't use clips.
> 
> Also there's no proof that that bolt pistol rounds are shorter, to my knowledge. Can you cite your source?


http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s336/UltimateDeidara/m890756a_Poster1_Large.jpg That looks like a clip to me.

As to the size of the bolts. Aside from the fact a bolt takes as much effort to make as a lasrifle there's a reason why officers only use pistols.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s336/UltimateDeidara/m890756a_Poster1_Large.jpg That looks like a clip to me.
> 
> As to the size of the bolts. Aside from the fact a bolt takes as much effort to make as a lasrifle there's a reason why officers only use pistols.


Beyond the fact that artwork is a bit dubious (bolt casings, anyone?), I have yet to see any mention of bolt clips in writing.

Also, you have yet to prove that bolt pistol bolts are shorter than bolt gun bolts. You just said that bolts are very difficult to make.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

hailene said:


> Beyond the fact that artwork is a bit dubious (bolt casings, anyone?), I have yet to see any mention of bolt clips in writing.
> 
> Also, you have yet to prove that bolt pistol bolts are shorter than bolt gun bolts. You just said that bolts are very difficult to make.


Yeah hey mags are pretty obvious to see since that clip is where the mag should be it appears to be using a clip.

It also states that humans can't fire a bolter because the recoil is too much if pistols used the same ammo then they could not use the gun.

Finally the only officers that use storm bolters and the like are wearing a version of power armor.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> Yeah hey mags are pretty obvious to see since that clip is where the mag should be it appears to be using a clip.
> 
> It also states that humans can't fire a bolter because the recoil is too much if pistols used the same ammo then they could not use the gun.
> 
> Finally the only officers that use storm bolters and the like are wearing a version of power armor.


It's never said that a human couldn't fire a boltgun.

In fact, on the tabletop humans can use boltguns (not just boltpistols). The whole purpose of a gun that uses gyrojet technology is due to its minimal recoil.

In both the Rogue Trader rulebook and Dark Heresy rulebooks there are bolters designed to be used by humans.

From the Rogue Trader rulebook, page 122, "The Locke-pattern [boltgun] is a variant of an old Adeptus Arbites design..." So the Adeptus Arbites, sometimes, use boltguns as well.

Interestingly enough, there's an entry for stormbolters that normal humans can use, too.

Though these weapons are vastly inferior to the Space Marine versions offered in the Deatchwatch rulebook.


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## Caratacos (Aug 26, 2008)

Cold86 said:


> a few questions related to the imperiums most recognizable armament.
> 
> 1. Can magazines from the different patterns of Boltguns be fired from any version boltgun?
> 
> ...


1: No idea, but to me it seems as if they are of different sizes (thickness). So maybe between some of the patterns but not all.

3: I guess not. But I don't think that it's unlikely that the ammo would be the same. Just like in modern pistols and submachine guns. For example the 9mm Parabellum which for is used in the Glock 17 pistol, the H&K MP5 submachinegun, and the Uzi submachine among others.

4: At least he would probably be able to take the bolter rounds from the magazine and put them into his own.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

It has been said that the bolter is far to heavy to be wielded effectively by the average human or imperial guard soldier. Whether they are Imperial Guard varients I don't know. But it also says that the bolt pistol is more commonly used, as it is distrbted to Imperial Guard officers and seasoned veterans of the imperial guard.

here is an informative little page. 

Bolters hold between 20-30 rounds, whilst a boltpistol can hold 6-10.

It does't say spcifically anywhere if magazines are interchangable as far as I know, but I'm inclined to believe they are not, as I can't find a source anywhere that confirms it.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

hailene said:


> It's never said that a human couldn't fire a boltgun.
> 
> In fact, on the tabletop humans can use boltguns (not just boltpistols). The whole purpose of a gun that uses gyrojet technology is due to its minimal recoil.
> 
> ...


Note i did say that most officers that use them have a form of power armor I don't doubt that there's bolters that a standard human can use. But standard IG won't be getting them.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

The IG's numbers are the sole reason why they don't get the best equipment. It's kind of ironic really. 

The reason why they are called the hammer of the Emperor is also why they are cannon fodder most of the time.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> Note i did say that most officers that use them have a form of power armor I don't doubt that there's bolters that a standard human can use. But standard IG won't be getting them.


Officiers...with power armor? Are you reading the same fluff that I am?

I can't even think of a single instance where an Imperial Guardsman of ANY rank possess power armor.

Power armor is usually restricted to Space Marines, Sister of Battle, and the Inquisition.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Imperial Guardsmen with... With Power Armor? Sure you aint reading any of Gotto`s writing here now?


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Doelago said:


> Imperial Guardsmen with... With Power Armor? Sure you aint reading any of Gotto`s writing here now?


I read somewhere that generals wear a version of power armor.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> I read somewhere that generals wear a version of power armor.


Never heard of it. Cite a source?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> I read somewhere that generals wear a version of power armor.


No they wear carapace armor, Inquisitors can wear armor.


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## ThoseKrazyKasrkin (Aug 2, 2011)

Reaper45 said:


> I read somewhere that generals wear a version of power armor.


I also read somwhere something like 'Power armour is worn by blah blah blah blah and some more martially inclined inquisitors' (can remember exact wording) Cant cite it as i cant remember.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

ThoseKrazyKasrkin said:


> I also read somwhere something like 'Power armour is worn by blah blah blah blah and some more martially inclined inquisitors' (can remember exact wording) Cant cite it as i cant remember.


Space Marines and Sisters of Battle, maybe?


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

hailene said:


> Never heard of it. Cite a source?


The closest I could find is this.
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Power_Armour




> *Other Imperial Power ArmoursEdit*
> 
> Although Power Armour is most closely associated with the Adeptus Astartes, it is also used by the Sisters of Battle and some more martial-minded Inquisitors of all three Ordos. However, the Sisters of Battle and Inquisitors who use Power Armour do not possess the Black Carapace gene-seed organ implant, and so can not be directly linked to the suit's advanced movement enhancement and fire control systems in the way Space Marines are, which decreases the armour's effectiveness. Some high-ranking members of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Machine Cult, use Power Armour. Enginseers of the Imperial Guard use it to protect them from enemy fire as they tend to the Machine Spirit of the Guard's vehicles.


Maybe


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Seeing's how an Inquisitor can arm just about anyone in any amount of Power Armour it doesn't seem unreasonable that a Guard commander could get some really. 

With bolters the number of different Patterns would make me think that not all ammunition is interchangeable. It will be within an organisation but with a Astarte Boltgun being much bigger and heavier than a Guard Boltgun it would seem unlikely the Magazines would be compatible but then the shells inside might be. 

The Imperium is so vast that organisations on different sides of the Galaxy could not meet for literally thousands of year. In which time minor divergences will be amplified somewhat. So there would be no reason to expect that a Boltgun manufactured on one side of the Galaxy will fire ammunition produced on the other side successfully.


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

IIRC in Faith and Fire and and Last Chancers they say that SoB Bolters and bolt pistols used by IG officers are much smaller than SM Bolters and Bolt Pistols.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> The closest I could find is this.
> http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Power_Armour


Apparently Enginseers are clad in power armor, as it says in the Imperial Guard codex. Still, they're not Imperial Guard. No more than battle psykers and priests.


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