# Wolf King



## Khorne's Fist

Ok, this is the first time any of the BL hardback books has stirred my trouser area. Looks fairly substantial as well.


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## Angel of Blood

Wait what.....


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## Angel of Blood

Does that look like Chris Wraight across the top there to anyone else??


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## forkmaster

Angel of Blood said:


> Does that look like Chris Wraight across the top there to anyone else??


I would say so too. I imagine it's the story of how Leman Russ escaped from the Alpha Legion between _Scars_ and _Vengeful Spirit_.


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## Angel of Blood

I hope so, with the Dark Angels, potentially under Corswain coming to their aid. But on the other hand, it may continue that ridiculous plot Mcneill started In Vengeful Spirit, of Russ going after Horus himself.


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## Khorne's Fist

Angel of Blood said:


> Does that look like Chris Wraight across the top there to anyone else??


Sadly it does. 

Don't get me wrong, I like how he handles the Wolves, but I'd love to see Abnett do a proper follow up to PB, and undo some of the damage McNeill did in VS.


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## Angel of Blood

True enough, but at leas it is Wraight. Not Mcneill again, or Swallow...


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## March of Time

Angel of Blood said:


> I hope so, with the Dark Angels, potentially under Corswain coming to their aid. But on the other hand, it may continue that ridiculous plot Mcneill started In Vengeful Spirit, of Russ going after Horus himself.


I think in one of the Horus Heresy novels it says that the lion was leading the Dark Angels when they saved The Space Wolves.


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## ckcrawford

Angel of Blood said:


> True enough, but at leas it is Wraight. Not Mcneill again, or Swallow...


Word. Looks interesting. Sounds like the story of my life. Looking forward to it.


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## Lord of the Night

It is definitely Chris Wraight. It has been years since they were about, but there were rumours about him writing the infamous Battle of Alaxxes.


LotN


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## piemelke

cool, it seems BL is improving


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## Captain_Loken

Angel of Blood said:


> True enough, but at leas it is Wraight. Not Mcneill again, or Swallow...


 You didn't like Vengeful Spirit?


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## Brother Lucian

Leman Russ returns in a brand new saga that focuses on the Space Wolves' battle with the Alpha Legion, following on from the events of Scars.

Right from the email blast that just went out. Blabber im seeing, is saying its another LE novella. So probably on par with the second Tallarn novella in size.


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## darkreever

Captain_Loken said:


> You didn't like Vengeful Spirit?


Most people didn't Loken, since a number of portions of the book felt extremely throw away or outright bad.


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## Sevatar

Oh look, another LE novella. I can't even summon the energy to get annoyed at these releases anymore. It's just meh.


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## Angel of Blood

darkreever said:


> Most people didn't Loken, since a number of portions of the book felt extremely throw away or outright bad.


This.....and so much more.

But anyway, I wonder how Wraight will handle the Alpha Legion themselves if this is indeed Alaxxes and he does some from their perspective.

I'm disappointed though if it is a novella. Was hoping for a full length novel..


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## Captain_Loken

darkreever said:


> Most people didn't Loken, since a number of portions of the book felt extremely throw away or outright bad.


That's a bummer. I haven't finished it, myself, but it's great to see Garviel again in a novel. (really the only reason I'm reading it). I have to agree with LotN's review, however.

Also, this may be another HH book that I will actually read. The battle of the primarchs are something everyone should read! I definitely won't be buying this by any means, however I may download the eBook and give it a shot. Even though I really dislike the Space Wolves.


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## Doelago

Still in full Wolf mode after having read _Ragnar Blackmane _by ADB, so quite excited for this.


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## MontytheMighty

Angel of Blood said:


> True enough, but at leas it is Wraight. Not Mcneill again, or Swallow...


Some would say Fear to Tread is best book of the HH series?


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## Angel of Blood

MontytheMighty said:


> Some would say Fear to Tread is best book of the HH series?


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## Khorne's Fist

MontytheMighty said:


> Some would say Fear to Tread is best book of the HH series?


Never saw a good word written about that book, either on here or anywhere else. Those "some" must live in a cave in the desert miles from an internet connection.


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## piemelke

MontytheMighty said:


> Some would say Fear to Tread is best book of the HH series?


almost as good as the dawn of war series


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## Lord of the Night

Khorne's Fist said:


> Never saw a good word written about that book, either on here or anywhere else. Those "some" must live in a cave in the desert miles from an internet connection.


I have written good words about that book here.


LotN


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## Brother Lucian

Lord of the Night said:


> I have written good words about that book here.
> 
> 
> LotN


think you missed the link, LoTN.


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## Khorne's Fist

Lord of the Night said:


> I have written good words about that book here.
> 
> 
> LotN


Really? I gave you more credit than that.


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## Lord of the Night

Khorne's Fist said:


> Really? I gave you more credit than that.


How condescending. Did I say the book was perfect? No. It isn't.

But there were a fair few good things to like about it. The depiction of Chaos for one was brilliant, the Red Angel was a great character and concept, Sanguinius' relationship to his Legion and his choice of how to deal with the Flaw was very interesting, Mkani Kano and Meros were memorable and likeable characters (particularly Kano as I always wondered how a Librarian would feel about being demoted back to foot soldier), and Sanguinius's confrontation with Ka'Bandha and Kyriss was epic.

That and unlike most here, I don't hate James Swallow.



Brother Lucian said:


> think you missed the link, LoTN.


By here, I mean Heresy Online.


LotN


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## Duke_Leto

Vengeful Spirit would have so much better (and a more appropriate length) had that whole silent war Garro sub plot simply been axed. It just didn't sit comfortably for me. How is it on the one hand nobody knows what is going on or where the traitors are or what worlds or armies have joined Horus etc and yet on the other hand Garro and his merry men seem to be able to travel around with impunity and make sure they are in the right place? Or did I miss the sensible explanation of that?


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## Captain_Loken

Lord of the Night said:


> How condescending. Did I say the book was perfect? No. It isn't.
> 
> But there were a fair few good things to like about it. The depiction of Chaos for one was brilliant, the Red Angel was a great character and concept, Sanguinius' relationship to his Legion and his choice of how to deal with the Flaw was very interesting, Mkani Kano and Meros were memorable and likeable characters (particularly Kano as I always wondered how a Librarian would feel about being demoted back to foot soldier), and Sanguinius's confrontation with Ka'Bandha and Kyriss was epic.
> 
> That and unlike most here, I don't hate James Swallow.
> 
> 
> By here, I mean Heresy Online.
> 
> 
> LotN



I have to agree here. 

Also, these 'most' that say that Vengeful Spirit is bad are quite interesting. I read your review of it, LotN and completely agree.

I understand some people not agreeing with people's reviews, but constantly saying 'most' people didn't like it kinda sounds ignorant. Everyone has their own opinions, so no one has the right to say 'they must be living in a cave no where near an internet connection'. You may feel that way and maybe a majority, but I'm sure there some intelligent people who like at least parts of the books in mention.


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## bobss

I know this is off-topic, but... _Fear to Tread_ may rightly have some redeeming qualities, but the bottom line in my opinion is that it wasn't ''good enough.'' Not by a considerable margin to be frankly honest.

If there are enough _Fear to Tread_ supporters on this board I'd be happy to host a structured debate. It is definitely one of the most divisive novels of the Horus Heresy, especially now the _Prospero Burns_ controversy has died down.

I understand the quality of literature is subjective and all that jazz, but I believe this novel can be slammed with crushing, almost irrefutable criticisms. And, hey, you never know, there may be some positives several of us have missed.


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## ckcrawford

MontytheMighty said:


> Some would say Fear to Tread is best book of the HH series?













_Fear to Tread_ was undoubtedly and unbiasedly the most disappointing novel of the series. I feel the novel written about my legion was utter piece of shit, but I have to say, the plot and importance of the events in _Fear to Tread_ were destroyed by shitty writing.


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## Captain_Loken

Captain_Loken said:


> I have to agree here.
> 
> Also, these 'most' that say that Vengeful Spirit is bad are quite interesting. I read your review of it, LotN and completely agree.
> 
> I understand some people not agreeing with people's reviews, but constantly saying 'most' people didn't like it kinda sounds ignorant. Everyone has their own opinions, so no one has the right to say 'they must be living in a cave no where near an internet connection'. You may feel that way and maybe a majority do too, but I'm sure there some intelligent people who like at least parts of the books in mention.


 Lots of opinions from people thinking its fact.


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## darkreever

bobss said:


> If there are enough _Fear to Tread_ supporters on this board I'd be happy to host a structured debate. It is definitely one of the most divisive novels of the Horus Heresy, especially now the _Prospero Burns_ controversy has died down.


I dont know about enough supporters, but personally I only have a few issues with the book to be perfectly honest


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## MontytheMighty

Angel of Blood said:


>


My opinion is that it's garbage or at best a pile of bland mediocrity...but I remember some ppl actually love it


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## MontytheMighty

Lord of the Night said:


> How condescending. Did I say the book was perfect? No. It isn't.
> 
> But there were a fair few good things to like about it. The depiction of Chaos for one was brilliant, the Red Angel was a great character and concept, Sanguinius' relationship to his Legion and his choice of how to deal with the Flaw was very interesting, Mkani Kano and Meros were memorable and likeable characters (particularly Kano as I always wondered how a Librarian would feel about being demoted back to foot soldier), and Sanguinius's confrontation with Ka'Bandha and Kyriss was epic.
> 
> That and unlike most here, I don't hate James Swallow.
> 
> 
> By here, I mean Heresy Online.
> 
> 
> LotN


I think you gave it a very glowing review...your taste is your prerogative...it's just very different from mine

http://thefoundingfields.com/2012/0...ow-dual-advance-review-lord-night-bane-kings/


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## Lord of the Night

MontytheMighty said:


> I think you gave it a very glowing review...your taste is your prerogative...it's just very different from mine
> 
> http://thefoundingfields.com/2012/0...ow-dual-advance-review-lord-night-bane-kings/


I'll admit that after a year or two, and reading newer Heresy novels, I wouldn't score it that high anymore. I would actually say now that _Fear to Tread_ is about an 8.4/10, which to me is a Very Good book. I still think it's in the Top 10 Heresy books, but not the Top 5 anymore, due to new releases displacing it.

I may do a re-read soon and re-evaluate my thoughts.


LotN


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## piemelke

I felt that the Signus setting had such enormous potential, Swallow should have done a LOT more with it, my disappointment with FTT is mainly the missed potential. Image ADB having a swing at it, I felt the BA were portayed as standard SM, but with red paint and anger issues, nothing more


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## Angel of Blood

Please direct all other Fear to Tread comments to the following thread..

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2218850#post2218850

And let's get back on topic please.


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## MontytheMighty

Does anyone else feels that SW and AL are the most wanked legions on the loyalist side and traitor side respectively?

I wonder who is going to be portrayed in a more impressive light in this outing


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## Captain_Loken

MontytheMighty said:


> Does anyone else feels that SW and AL are the most wanked legions on the loyalist side and traitor side respectively?
> 
> I wonder who is going to be portrayed in a more impressive light in this outing




If you mean underrated, then yes. At least with the Alpha Legion. 

If that's not what you mean, I am terribly sorry. Please let me know what you mean and I'm sure I will agree with you. Hah


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## MontytheMighty

AL and SW...are underrated?


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## bobss

As Vaz said a while ago, the Alpha Legion have a growing reputation of trolling other Legions for no better reason than, ''AL, lol.'' They do feel invincible to a degree, I agree.

I don't think the Space Wolves are wanked as such, but I feel that perhaps some authors struggle to portray them. Being the Emperor's Executioners doesn't necessarily mean they're better, or stronger than other Legions. Just tenacious and ferocious and savage as fuck, like a wolf stalking its prey. There's a subtle difference.


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## Phoebus

At the end of the day, I honestly don't have a problem with what Alpha Legion has been shown to do. I don't think it comes down to an outright statement of unreasonable superiority on the part of the writers. The Legiones Astartes, for the most part, are a force that focuses on shock assault. They are an overt force that demolishes and annihilates whatever is put in front of them.

There are a few exceptions, to be sure. The Night Lords, for instance, are more likely to focus on terror operations, psychological warfare, and tactics that allow a collection of selfish, vicious criminals survive. The Raven Guard certainly employ stealth and heavily rely covert infiltration for their operations.

The Alpha Legion aren't so much _better_ than the other Legions than that they simply chose to play a different game altogether. They succeed against their brother Legions not because they are necessarily stronger, faster, smarter, or whatever. They simply employ different tactics - ones that the other Legiones Astartes find distasteful and - this is important - unnecessary given all the firepower they can bring to bear.

Put it this way. Most Space Marines are a seven-foot-tall mix of Bruce Lee, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Usain Bolt, and Audie Murphy. If, one day, one of them opens the bulkhead to their quarters and gets sucked into the vacuum of space, does that mean the Alpha Legion are better warriors? Or does it simply indicate that they didn't expect someone they considered their ally to sneak aboard their battle-barge and cut a hole in the hull?

And once he _does_ realize that the Alpha Legion are enemies, does the Space Marine's inability to counter their machinations indicate he is inferior in terms of martial prowess or intelligence to them? Or does it simply indicate that the Alpha Legion are far more experienced at this sort of thing, that the Space Marine is reacting (always a bad thing), and that there are a lot of things (like, a galaxy-wide war) distracting him from anticipating all sorts of devious espionage and sabotage?


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## gen.ahab

This hurts me more than I can properly articulate using any of the languages of mankind, but.......










(Fuck my Space Wolf fanboy tendencies)


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## MontytheMighty

Phoebus said:


> At the end of the day, I honestly don't have a problem with what Alpha Legion has been shown to do. I don't think it comes down to an outright statement of unreasonable superiority on the part of the writers. The Legiones Astartes, for the most part, are a force that focuses on shock assault. They are an overt force that demolishes and annihilates whatever is put in front of them.
> 
> There are a few exceptions, to be sure. The Night Lords, for instance, are more likely to focus on terror operations, psychological warfare, and tactics that allow a collection of selfish, vicious criminals survive. The Raven Guard certainly employ stealth and heavily rely covert infiltration for their operations.
> 
> The Alpha Legion aren't so much _better_ than the other Legions than that they simply chose to play a different game altogether. They succeed against their brother Legions not because they are necessarily stronger, faster, smarter, or whatever. They simply employ different tactics - ones that the other Legiones Astartes find distasteful and - this is important - unnecessary given all the firepower they can bring to bear.
> 
> Put it this way. Most Space Marines are a seven-foot-tall mix of Bruce Lee, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Usain Bolt, and Audie Murphy. If, one day, one of them opens the bulkhead to their quarters and gets sucked into the vacuum of space, does that mean the Alpha Legion are better warriors? Or does it simply indicate that they didn't expect someone they considered their ally to sneak aboard their battle-barge and cut a hole in the hull?
> 
> And once he _does_ realize that the Alpha Legion are enemies, does the Space Marine's inability to counter their machinations indicate he is inferior in terms of martial prowess or intelligence to them? Or does it simply indicate that the Alpha Legion are far more experienced at this sort of thing, that the Space Marine is reacting (always a bad thing), and that there are a lot of things (like, a galaxy-wide war) distracting him from anticipating all sorts of devious espionage and sabotage?


If side B can't counter side A's tactics...but side A can counter side B's tactics...yes, I would say side A is superior to side B...at least vis-a-vis each other. 

What you're saying is that side A is superior because it has more practice at and a greater talent for superior tactics other legions are unable to counter.


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## Captain_Loken

MontytheMighty said:


> AL and SW...are underrated?



Excuse me for not knowing what you meant by "wanked legions".

SW is not over rated, but I believe AL is.


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## forkmaster

I liked _The Serpent Beneath_ as it showed the AL has faults as well and aren't as unified as one might expect. It broke their powerful infiltrators-image a little.


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## forkmaster

Holy frekking shit guys! It looks amazing!


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## Kreuger

forkmaster said:


> Holy frekking shit guys! It looks amazing!


Mmmmm . . . other than the direction/angle of that sword swing which is both goofy and awkward.


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## Malus Darkblade

Lol at the mead mug attached to his belt.

Looks like he's raping Alpha Legionnaires.

And mirroring Kreuger, his raised fist post sword swing looks odd.


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## Angel of Blood

Meh, I love it! Alaxxes for certain then. Hopefully see a good bit of Bjorn/Bear in it as well.


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## Brother Lucian

*The Wolf King is back in action. Chris Wraight continues the saga of Leman Russ in a new novella, and for the first time, it's available simultaneously in Limited Edition and eBook formats. Choose either the lavish hardback or the digital download and join the battle on Friday 2nd October.


Looks like they are doing away with the 1 or 2 year exclusivity on LE releases, and giving the ebook asap.
*


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## LokiDeathclaw

I am excited for this book but slightly disappointed that it is a novella and not a full novel........oh well I expect nothing less from the HH series now


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## Kreuger

Malus Darkblade said:


> Lol at the mead mug attached to his belt....


Ah, yes. Don't leave Fang without it.


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## Sevatar

Brother Lucian said:


> *The Wolf King is back in action. Chris Wraight continues the saga of Leman Russ in a new novella, and for the first time, it's available simultaneously in Limited Edition and eBook formats. Choose either the lavish hardback or the digital download and join the battle on Friday 2nd October.
> 
> 
> Looks like they are doing away with the 1 or 2 year exclusivity on LE releases, and giving the ebook asap.
> *


I wonder what the eBook is going to cost though.


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## csw

Wait and see. I wonder if this is the first sign of BL extricating their cranial unit from their nether orifices... or shoving it further in.


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## Kreuger

csw said:


> Wait and see. I wonder if this is the first sign of BL extricating their cranial unit from their nether orifices... or shoving it further in.


Hmm, I bet they have their little miner lights on their hats and they're going spelunking.


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## MontytheMighty

The beer mug at his hip is really ... hilarious


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## Anakwanar

Extract is awesome. I do expect a lot from this novella further on


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## Angel of Blood

I'm going to buy this. I paid this much for Aurellian, I'm certainly going to pay the same for one of my favourite Primarchs. 

But holy shit £19.99 for the ebook!!!!!!


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## Brother Lucian

WTF, 28euro for a mere ebook novella? Black Library can keep this one till it gets a more reasonable price.


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## Mellow_

I got the email and it said it was available on iBooks.

I looked and it's not, very strange.


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## Khorne's Fist

Brother Lucian said:


> WTF, 28euro for a mere ebook novella? Black Library can keep this one till it gets a more reasonable price.


Fuck that, for a book you'd read in as long as it takes to take a good dump? I think not.


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## Phoebus

MontytheMighty said:


> If side B can't counter side A's tactics...but side A can counter side B's tactics...yes, I would say side A is superior to side B...at least vis-a-vis each other.
> 
> What you're saying is that side A is superior because it has more practice at and a greater talent for superior tactics other legions are unable to counter.


I'm saying what I said. I think it was clear enough.


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## Brother Lucian

Found extensive spoilers here for those whom thinks its ridiculously overpriced:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/

Some rather interesting bits.


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## MontytheMighty

Phoebus said:


> I'm saying what I said. I think it was clear enough.


Right...you clearly said other sides can't counter the AL, then gave some reasons for why that's the case.


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## piemelke

some very positive reactions, seems promising, and adds to Chris his reputation, nice


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## Phoebus

MontytheMighty said:


> Right...you clearly said other sides can't counter the AL, then gave some reasons for why that's the case.


I never said they _couldn't._ I gave an opinion as to why them not doing so doesn't necessarily make the Alpha Legion over the top, unrealistic, etc. I offered that the context and background of the Legiones Astartes (specifically, their culture and mentality) allowed the Alpha Legion to operate in a relative vacuum where their chosen mode of war was concerned. Finally, I pointed out that a conflict of the scale of the Heresy may very well keep the other Legiones Astartes too busy to worry re-establish their protocols and tactics to a level that might thwart the Alpha Legion.

If you read that as "can't", period, then I'm sorry but that wasn't my intent. Not only was that my intent, but it's obviously not the intent of Games Workshop and its various entities (Black Library, Forge World, etc.). An example of that would be the explicitly stated qualifier that the "circles of trust" of the Dark Angels' hierarchy ensured they weren't infiltrated by either the Lodges or the Alpha Legion.


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## sadLor

Read the spoilers...

There are quite a lot of plot advancements and details that seem very important to the overall Heresy. I won't get into spoilers, you can check out the details at other sites like B&C.

That actually makes me a little disappointed. I thought they said all the main plot lines would be covered in the core books? Oh well, luckily my interest in the HH has waned a lot in the last year so I'm not too passionate about it. Hopefully in the next few years, this novella becomes part of one of the core anthologies.


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## Angel of Blood

Well I've ordered it. This will be the first limited edition I've bought in quite some time. I am cautiously optimistic about it. Now just need to wait for it to arrive.


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## NiceGuyEddy

It's good. Disappointed that it wasn't longer though. Paying alot for a throwaway short story is one thing but it's very disheartening to pay a lot of money for 120 pages that could/should/would have been a full length novel.


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## Kharn The Complainer

I certainly enjoyed it. It ended well and helps explain why the Space Wolves never made it to Terra for the final battle.


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## Angel of Blood

Kharn The Complainer said:


> I certainly enjoyed it. It ended well and helps explain why the Space Wolves never made it to Terra for the final battle.


Not it doesn't. This takes place before _Vengeful Spirit_, which shows Russ and the VIth to be on Terra.


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## Kharn The Complainer

Angel of Blood said:


> Not it doesn't. This takes place before _Vengeful Spirit_, which shows Russ and the VIth to be on Terra.


Lame.


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## MontytheMighty

Kharn The Complainer said:


> Lame.


Yep...after the remnants of Russ' legion nearly get snuffed out at Alaxxes, Russ actually manages to get back to Terra. He than has the idea that only he can take Traitor Horus 1 on 1 and leaves Terra to bring the fight to Horus with his severely decimated legion


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## Roninman

MontytheMighty said:


> Yep...after the remnants of Russ' legion nearly get snuffed out at Alaxxes, Russ actually manages to get back to Terra. He than has the idea that only he can take Traitor Horus 1 on 1 and leaves Terra to bring the fight to Horus with his severely decimated legion


This just gets better.. Is there some serious reason to write total garbage like that. Primarchs master strategists my ass. Ive played serious wargames 30 years and even i can think better than them. Sadly some authors dont seem very strategic on their writing.


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## Iron Circle

To play the devil's advocate, why are we assuming that Russ's plan involves a pitched battle with SoH. It could be something akin to a commando raid to assassinate a particular target, it could be done right. But then SW aren't exactly the legion for this sort of job, its more in RG territory but they are in worse state than SW, so.

Anyway it could turn out to be good although I don't have much hope.


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## Kharn The Complainer

MontytheMighty said:


> Yep...after the remnants of Russ' legion nearly get snuffed out at Alaxxes, Russ actually manages to get back to Terra. He than has the idea that only he can take Traitor Horus 1 on 1 and leaves Terra to bring the fight to Horus with his severely decimated legion



Yeah, I actually read that whole story and then completely forgot about it. :-\


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## Lord of Ruin

This for me was probably the best Horus heresy novella BL have published, I mean *Serpent beneath* was really great! but Chris managed to really capture Russ well showing him in such a different light.

Also seeing the space wolves take such a kicking was refreshing to see and I'm a huge Vlka Fenryka fan!

The identity of the infiltrator, I honestly did not see that coming!


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## Euphrati

Overall I really enjoyed the novella. 

However there was one minor, passing detail that rubbed my fur the wrong way that I ended up chalking up to a slight shift in cannon from the 40k wolves physiology to the 30k wolves that are still evolving in the HH novels.


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