# Explain 3x3 detachments to me?



## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

Empire players, please explain to me why you would ever deploy your detachments as 3x3, because I'm just not getting it. Was talking to an Empire player today who does this, he said it was for maneuverability, but I'm having a hard time imagining that an extra 40mm of frontage is that hard to get around. Not to mention the loss of a potential 2-4 attacks. Why do I still see people using this formation, it's driving me nuts?!


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

If you pack alot of models then 5 wide detachments will steal too much space to manouver the "important" units to their rightfull spots. The diffrence between 60 and 100 MM frontage makes a diffrence. Sure if its only 1-2 units detachments then its not a big deal, but if you have many it does become a big problem quite fast.
It isnt that hard to pack 200 models in an Empire army, in those cases all mm's counts

Another thing to consider is that you have your ranks in the parent unit, so the detachment dont need to care for that. 
If you would happen to run into a huge unit then 3 models wide will deny the opponent a few attacks, compared to 5. Given the standard Empire soldiers fighting potential its better to survive longer then gamble on a few more weak attacks. 
Detachments also arent really there to kill the enemies, they are there to deny them their rank bonus. Denying ranks is as easily done by a unit 3x3 big as a 2x5 one, but the 3x3 one is alot easier to wheel and manouver, and also cheaper! Win on all ends:wink:


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## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

I don't really see the fewer incoming attacks argument, that'd have to be a really really big unit to keep anybody out of b2b. I'll buy the accumulated effect of extra models, although this has never come up with me yet. I tend to run halbreds and militia in my detachments though, where as all the 3x3 guys seem to like the swordsmen.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Yes, I think 3x3 works well with Swordsmen, due to the 4+ Save, and reduced (2-3 models). But, still, I've never understood the 3x3 combat block, and I always think that you'd be better taking the Ranged - that way you can Stand and Shoot, I think, in any case.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Othiem said:


> I don't really see the fewer incoming attacks argument, that'd have to be a really really big unit to keep anybody out of b2b....


Yea its for over 5 rank strong units so it wont happen against all opponents, but it does happen against some. Orks, Skavens, Undeads mostly but can be more. Yes the idea is ofc to use Swordmen for those to die with as few as possible 
There is also a fact that there are more then a few units that are quite small nowdays, even as infantry. Against those it wont help much that your unit is 5 models wide, a Wood Elf skirmish unit wont be big, Chaos Warriors will rarely be over 12 models(6x2), Swordmasters dont gain shit from huge units either, few cav units are over 1 rank and so on.
5 WS 3 S 4 attacks aint very impressive against a bit harder opponents. These guys will(if they dont do very good) be alot easier CR thanks to bad WS and no save unlike the Swordmen they most likely support

Ofc diffrent players play diffrent tho  
In my personal world normal Empire troopers excel at winning combat from static bonuses(ranks, flank and so on) and not at killing. The odd hero will boost the CR 1-2 wounds from his attacks but thats roughly it. Just like undeads its more important to survive then gamble on a few weak attacks. You lead combat with 5 from start against most units, its imho better to hide behind shields and try to survive and minimise the loss of CR thanks to dead models


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## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

Hm....thing is for all the units that would be that large, Empire troops can generally go toe to toe with. Even if a unit is only 2 ranks deep, I can still get 4 models into b2b. Versus single rank cavalry the superior defense of the swordsmen is wasted, since the cav will just attack forward. You say the extra combat potential is not worth the risk versus undead, but remember undead aren't going to run away. You need to inflict maximum casualties on the undead to tie up casting dice in reraising troops and prevent them from outnumbering you and thus casing an autobreak should a round not go your way. 

I don't really like the argument that swordsmen will last longer, as vs anything like chaos warriors or elite infantry they still are too risky to send in, and elite units aren't carrying enough rank bonus to bother negating anyways. 

Just seems to me that the job swordsmen are meant to do they don't do well, but militia or halberds shine given the right opponent. And every army (except the bloody HEs) has several nice targets. 

At the end of the day I see where you're coming from, but I find lots of blocks of swordsmen backed up by detachments of yet more swordsmen boring, and lacking in the ability to take advantage of a particular units weakness when the opportunity arises.


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

Honetly, I run my detachments 3x3 because I like the way it looks. My parent unit is 5x5 swords or spears my combat detachment is 3x3 swords, spears or free compay (Depends on what I'm against) and my ranged detachment is 6x1 (or 1x6 however you want to express it). I just like the way the 3x3 complements the 5x5 of the parent. Though admittedly, it does make it a LOT easier to manouver.


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## Doombull (Mar 31, 2009)

Same i have never understood this but now i do. I best buy some more state troops and dump the gun line lol


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## rogthgar (Mar 25, 2009)

I can see the point in both the wide front with 5 models, wich will work well againts large blocks of troopers that rely less on killing power than on outnumbering and ranks. Where the extra killing power can come in handy.

And the short frontage of 3, where you just want them to deny the enemy rank bonusses and possibly survive, against stuff like chaos warriors you most likely wont want more of them to start adding to the combat. (roughly half of the detatchment will hit the warriors, (if they got halberds) half of those hits will wound, and depending on the warriors gear 34%-66% of those wounds will be saved.)
Also the manuvering issue makes sense.


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## crushinbeats (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm slightly new to the terms your all using. 

What does 3x3 mean? Does that mean 3 models wide with 3 models deep?

Your giving up your rank bonus of 1 for a lower frontage? Why not just make the unit 3x2? 6 models, 3 wide? whats the extra 3 for?

Could someone detail this tactic for me? Is this only for empire?


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

crushinbeats said:


> I'm slightly new to the terms your all using. What does 3x3 mean? Does that mean 3 models wide with 3 models deep?
> Your giving up your rank bonus of 1 for a lower frontage? Why not just make the unit 3x2? 6 models, 3 wide? whats the extra 3 for?


3x3 means, just like you wrote 3 wide and 3 deep yes.
5 models are needed to remove ranks, if your detatchment is 6 and 2 dies they wont do shit. If they're 9 then 5 must die before they turn useless:wink:


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## crushinbeats (Mar 10, 2009)

Ahhh thank you for the info. Making sence now.


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## retiye2 (Oct 20, 2008)

Indeed it is, for the detachment blocks these are small units that only empire can get and are used as a small flanking unit to deny the big enemy block his rank bonus

eg. goblins (G) charge empire spears (S) and the get flanked by the 3x3 sword detachment (D)



> GGGGG
> GGGGG
> GGGGG
> GGGGG
> ...


yay for crappy diagrams!!!! 

that said an empire player could better describe it


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