# Why run champions?



## DrinCalhar (Jul 10, 2010)

I am a Chaos Space Marine player and I have been looking at all my units and trying to decide if I should really run any champions in my army? I know that champions give you that added ability to take a lot of special weapons but besides that is it really that much better?
For example, lets look at my Khorne Berzerkers. Eight Khorne Berzerkers, one of which is a champion with a power weapon. If they charge they get 33 attacks usually before the other team. Now it is nice since some of the wounds cannot be saved by the opponent. However, for for just a few points less you can get Nine Khorne Berzerkers get a few more attacks. Now are these extra attacks more useful or do we want always have a little more versatile unit that can cut down some heavier units like a Lord or Captain or possibly some sort of armor if we spend a few more point and get a power fist? 
Another example would be Terminators. For about the same cost you can have five Terminator champions or you can have seven Terminators. Now, I know the champions cost a bit less and have more attacks but this doesn't give you two more pieces that have great staying power with a few more shots. 
This is strictly for tournament play. I know a lot of this will also depend on playing style of each person but in the end is it really worth the upgrade?


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## Curiosity kills (Jun 11, 2010)

I use champions with powerfists and combi weapons and if points allow a melta bomb. is he very expencive yes. Does he always make back his points no. things that he does do.

he tips combat in my favor against other meq opponents. he can injure a wrath lord and more often causes more damage to enemy monsterous creatures than all of the other marines in his squad.
he can kill that deadnought that just charged you, and untill he is dead can be a thorn in your enemys plans.

total kill record one of my champs has since I started keeping track. 1 wrath lord 1 hive tyrant 1 carnifex 2 daemon princes 9 tau battle suits(same game) and over 200 enemy infantry modles fighting gaurd does that.

that is why I use champs read the others to see what there uses for champs are.

(Greater Daemon summoning)


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## Dugong (Apr 13, 2008)

In a nutshel, absolutely.

The benefit of an aspiring champion is access to special weapons while not being an independent character. In my 2000pt tournament army all of my squads have aspiring champtions, 2 of which are berzerkers, 1 is a NM squad and the other is PM.

For the berzerkers i got a chamption with a power weapon, keep it cheep and forget meltabombs or plasma pistols and the like. Berzerkers are build to destroy infintry so gear your champion for it.

The benefit is when you charge a unit of terminators, If you didn't take the champion you may be looking at 8 attacks for 2 zerkers, but with a 2+ save it's unlikely you'll be killing much. On the other hand a champion with a p/wep will do much better.

On standard csm squads i take a champion with a power fist simply because i don't know what they will be up against. If you cheeped out on the champ and then got charged by a dreadnought you'd be thinking 'why didn't i get a powerfist? now all i can do is sit there and die slowly'

True if the berzerkers got charged by a dreadnought they'd be in trouble since i didn't give them a fist, but remember zerkers are geared for killing infintry, not walkers and I tend to keep a DP close by anyway just in case.

For my NM squad my champ has a p/wep and doom siren, it's a lot of points but it's great for counter attacking units that poped out of rhinos. My PM squad has a champ with fist for defensive purposes so he can slowly bash anyones head in that gets too close.

So yes you should grab champions, even in competetive play to give your squads the edge and i recommend giving them a p/wep of fist and nothing else. But no matter how you gear them be sure to keep them cheep and focused to the goal you want for them.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

After well over 100 games with my CSM in 5th edition against a variety of opponents, i can assure you that an Aspiring Champion with a Power Fist is well worth its points, especially for Berzerkers.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Curiosity kills said:


> I use champions with powerfists and combi weapons and if points allow a melta bomb.


If you have the powerfist why would you bother with the meltabombs? They are useless against infantry, and against armour there is one, maybe two situations where you would use the single bomb attack over multiple fist attacks (monolith.) In most other cases, more attacks generally means more chances of hitting, which means more chances of causing damage.


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

Unless a unit is going to be an objective holder or fire support, I'll take a champ every time...and even then I'll sometimes take a champ (PMs come to mind). Their ability to deal with heavy infantry/characters, MCs and light/med armor comes in very handy. And powerfists are my weapon of choice.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

With GW swing away from 'one man army' characters, CSM champs inparticular have benefited as they are now on a par with many armies characters. Your Champ with a powerfist while at 56 points, is caperble of one hit killing pretty much any un-named character.

Not to mention the added leadership to basic CSM squads. LD 10 troops is a godsend (literally lmao!).

In Cult troops it is something else. 
In 1k sons you get a sorceror who can kill several MEQs or bag vehicles, not to mention the Force weapon.
In Berzerkers he can have either a Fist or a Power weapon, I'd always take the fist personally. Str9 on the charge is mega. A power weapon is good, giving him a whopping 4-5 attacks on the charge at I5. The rival of most characters.
In PMs it gives you a T5 monster who can one hit kill other characters.
In NMs its no more than what a normal CSM champ offers....with the Exception of a Doom siren which is deadly as, and very cheap for what it does.


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## Curiosity kills (Jun 11, 2010)

> If you have the powerfist why would you bother with the meltabombs? They are useless against infantry, and against armour there is one, maybe two situations where you would use the single bomb attack over multiple fist attacks (monolith.) In most other cases, more attacks generally means more chances of hitting, which means more chances of causing damage.


I use melta bombs in my squads for killing the plethora of land raiders in my gameing group and I use it to fill in If I am afew points under


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## Ghost792 (Jan 6, 2010)

darkreever said:


> They are useless against infantry, and against armour there is one, maybe two situations where you would use the single bomb attack over multiple fist attacks (monolith.)


I would rather use the fist, since you still only get a single D6 against a monolith with melta bombs. At least with the fist you still get all of your attacks. Land raiders on the other hand, I'd definitely use melta bombs.


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## Uilleam (Nov 23, 2009)

Champions are too useful to have in any squad except havocs. Power Fists all the way. The ability to insta kill most characters, crush tanks, bash MCs, and nothing to fear from the walker with fleet that assualts your units. 

It gets even better when used on Khorne Berzerkers. Str 9 on the charge vs most tanks rear armour of 10 or 11? Even a Land Raider has to fear a Skull Champion. Wounding Hive Tyrants on 2s. Nope, melta bombs are vastly inferior. 

Don't leave home without your champion weilding his trusty Power Fist. :grin:


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## Syko515 (Jan 22, 2008)

darkreever said:


> If you have the powerfist why would you bother with the meltabombs? They are useless against infantry, and against armour there is one, maybe two situations where you would use the single bomb attack over multiple fist attacks (monolith.) In most other cases, more attacks generally means more chances of hitting, which means more chances of causing damage.


not sure about the meltabombs over a fist, but reguarding the VS monolith, the fist is probably the better option as you don't gain the "melta" bonus vs the uber hard to kill tank....ever


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Er, and you'll, what, only glance the monolith with s4 and a fist? Just like the MBs do? Granted, you get more attacks, but...

You're right, but it's still a terrible option.


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## Syko515 (Jan 22, 2008)

Cyklown said:


> Er, and you'll, what, only glance the monolith with s4 and a fist? Just like the MBs do? Granted, you get more attacks, but...
> 
> You're right, but it's still a terrible option.


this is why i hate monoliths.


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