# The Orks and their role in WH40k.



## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

"_To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods._"

Warhammer40k is a science fiction, dystopian universe with elements of Cthulhu-like horror intertwined in it.

Several alien empires come closer, day by day, to overrunning the defenses of mankind and consuming, enslaving, or destroying them once and for all.

However, the Orks cannot be said to be part of those encroaching upon humanity's domain and wiping it out once and for all simply because of the fact that they squabble amongst themselves far too often to pose a serious or as serious of a threat as the other alien races. And more importantly, it isn't on their agenda. They don't specifically have the Imperium in their sights.

In addition, in my opinion, their happy, carefree and go-lucky attitude to things doesn't really fit well with the bit at the very top.

Moving on, what role do the Orks really serve nowadays? Warhammer40k has changed tremendously since its inception and I doubt the people behind the franchise back then thought it would be as successful or that it would become so _grimdark_ with humanity's doom at the hands of aliens and primordial monsters lurking in the dark becoming a major selling point.

The Orks speak a form of Cockney English, they build titans that look like garbage cans, their guns are painted various colors because such a practice is believed to make their weapons more effective (which arguably it does given their psychic status), and there are many other examples.

They have no goals or fears like the other races such as: Eldar/surviving until Ynnead, Dark Eldar/Slaanesh, Necrons/closing the warp and restoring their dominance, Tyranids/sustaining their hunger, Tau/bringing their way of life to all and becoming a major power, etc. In a way they are the total embodiment of Chaos in that their movements and personalities are fickle and ever changing and they just do things for the sake of doing them.

So are they needed anymore? Surely another menace could replace them if they were to suddenly go the way of the Squats. Or do we truly need some form of comic relief in the series to balance people's humors?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

The ork hordes role seems to the uncontrollable barbarians at the gates/some in it that seem to care not for taking over but simply destroying everything. While orks are not organized usually when they are united by a great warlord they steam roll across the Imperium like a bipolar mongolian horde. When their great warlord dies their horde usually shatters sending group of orks in all direction. Along with that any world an ork touches will have to deal with orks forever.

Soooo basically orks are usually like a jab at the Imperium until a ork warlord takes over then they are like an explosive boulder that crushes all in it's way till it explodes sending shards of orks throughout the Imperium.

P.s. Yeah they seem like the comic relief guys


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Spot on, *Malus*.

*locustgate*, your last point hit the nail on the head.

At their core, the orks are comic. Even with the dark turn they've benefited from at the hands of Abnett, ADB, etc., the baseline material for orks is - sadly - a built in joke. The purposeful misspellings and puns, the ramshackle look of their equipment, it all undermines any seriousness in their portrayal, and thus undermines the dystopian quality of the setting whenever they are present.

A lot of their concepts are actually very solid: a species engineered for war; a species whose potential for intelligence and prowess increases in proportion to their numbers; that, and more, makes for a convincing faction in this universe. A lot of the peripherals, to include speech and much of their look, needs to be stripped away, though, I think.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Thing is, a lot of the times the Ork "funny moments" are written from their perspective. But if you consider those same actions from a human perspective, it's actually quite horrifying. Take the "squig brain transplant". Its description is written in a slapstick sort of way but, when you get down to it, they basically cut someone's head open, remove their brain and stick a monstrous, violent, overgrown parasite in there. That seems like something straight out of the most extreme scifi horror films.

A novel, while not the greatest book BL has released, that really brings the more terrifying aspects of the Ork race across is _Rynn's World_. At one stage there is a bit about a painboy who keeps people in cages, only so that it can later skin their faces off and wear them like a mask. That's pretty fucking grimdark to me.

With regards to the Orks as a threat, I think they are a plenty big threat. The Beast and his crusade proved that a powerful enough Warlord can bring together a large enough Waaagh to pose a _very_ serious problem for the Imperium. Not to mention that the last Ork codex mentions that there are more and more Ork empires popping up, and more of these are uniting and fighting together. There are also other mentions such as Orks slowly encroaching deeper into Ultramar territory, especially the Arch-Arsonist of Charadon. So while not as in your face as Necrons, Chaos or Tyranids, Orks _do_ most certainly pose a threat to the Imperium.


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

I think the comic part is acctualy in our interpetation of their way of life and that is easy to do the no-brainer joke. 

Do the orks because they think it is fun to destroy things? No! They do it because an urge, enigeered into their genes, to do it. They are an automatic weapon of war with no master. Everything with them is engineered to be the final weapon of desperation. A weapon that can go on forever making the life of, whoever vanquished their creators, though as hell. They wanted war and we could not win so we have them eternal war. 

Comic? Just that spark in the fluff to make sure that the galaxy will burn forever and that no one goes safe. 

Their bad english is just for fun and nothing I believe is orkish. They would do much better with their glyphs like the Necrons.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Several alien empires come closer, day by day, to overrunning the defenses of mankind and consuming, enslaving, or destroying them once and for all.
> 
> However, the Orks cannot be said to be part of those encroaching upon humanity's domain and wiping it out once and for all simply because of the fact that they squabble amongst themselves far too often to pose a serious or as serious of a threat as the other alien races. And more importantly, it isn't on their agenda. They don't specifically have the Imperium in their sights.


The Greenskins certainly can be said to be a part of "those encroaching upon humanity's domain". They have probably been the most consistent and ever-present threat to humanity throughout Imperial history, and Greenskin Empires and raiding parties don't just exist, but they constantly seek ingression into the realms of Man. 

The destruction of the Imperium may not be specifically on their agenda, but waging war is, and from an Imperial perspective there really isn't much of a difference. 

Let us also not forget that whilst the Greenskins are a fractious species some Ork Empires, under particularly fearsome warlords, have come very close to conquering the galaxy. The Beast's Waaagh in 544.M32 being the most prominent example.


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## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Orcs were at one point the biggest threat to the Imperium . With the Emperor and the primarchs they drove back and defeated the orcs. Something tells me with the primarchs and the Emperor they would of done the same to the Tyranids and Necrons. 

It's that in 40k the Imperium is at a weaken state and would prefer the orcs to play a lesser role. But I think the orcs plays a balance to all the other enemies to the Imperium. 

An Orc would fight a nid as much as they would fight a necron. So in a way it's like check and balances.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I also want to point out that ork language is not bad english, it is simply portrayed that way to the readers in fluff because that is the easiest way to represent the crude nature of their language. 

There are exceptions, for instance orks are capable of learning human speech and even human writing, the best example being Ghazkull. And of course humans are capable of learning the greenskin language as well.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The Greenskins certainly can be said to be a part of "those encroaching upon humanity's domain". They have probably been the most consistent and ever-present threat to humanity throughout Imperial history, and Greenskin Empires and raiding parties don't just exist, but they constantly seek ingression into the realms of Man.
> 
> The destruction of the Imperium may not be specifically on their agenda, but waging war is, and from an Imperial perspective there really isn't much of a difference.
> 
> Let us also not forget that whilst the Greenskins are a fractious species some Ork Empires, under particularly fearsome warlords, have come very close to conquering the galaxy. The Beast's Waaagh in 544.M32 being the most prominent example.


I don't dispute the fact that as a whole, they are a very dangerous foe. The way they're described in the codex/forge-world texts is great and makes them seem very scary. But once you zoom in, you start hearing their Cockney accents and see them punt their smaller goblin slaves just because its funny, etc.

It's hard for me to imagine the Emperor getting strangled by a huge Ork Warboss laughing at his face in a Cockney accent.

It just robs them of the seriousness they represent on paper. 



kwak76 said:


> Orcs were at one point the biggest threat to the Imperium . With the Emperor and the primarchs they drove back and defeated the orcs. Something tells me with the primarchs and the Emperor they would of done the same to the Tyranids and Necrons.


The Necrons and the Tyranids are much more dangerous than the Orks. With the Greenskins, they can be bribed, manipulated or tricked. You can't do those things with the Necrons or the Tyranids.

Had they have been around back in the Emperor's day, I'm quite certain the Great Crusade would have come to a screeching halt.



Serpion5 said:


> I also want to point out that ork language is not bad english, it is simply portrayed that way to the readers in fluff because that is the easiest way to represent the crude nature of their language.
> 
> There are exceptions, for instance orks are capable of learning human speech and even human writing, the best example being Ghazkull. And of course humans are capable of learning the greenskin language as well.


From Helsreach



_The alien grunted a stream of curses in Gothic as it struggled in the knight’s grip.

Grimaldus clutched at the creature’s throat, black gauntlets squeezing, choking, crunching bone beneath his grip.

‘You dare defile the language of the pure race…’ He slammed the alien back, breaking its head open on the steel wall behind. Foetid breath steamed across Grimaldus’s faceplate as the ork’s attempt to roar came out as a panicked whine. The Astartes would not be appeased. His grip tightened._


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## Karthak (Jul 25, 2010)

_The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude._
— Uthan the Perverse, Eldar Philosopher


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## Protoss119 (Aug 8, 2010)

_“Make it dark, make it grim, make it tough, but then, for the love of God, tell a joke.”_ -Joss Whedon

I am of the opinion that the Orks not only have a place in 40k, but are necessary for the grim darkness of 40k to be taken seriously for one reason: Bathos. It is true that the Orks are a comic element in an otherwise dark and depressing universe, but that comic element serves to make all else in the galaxy seem darker by contrast, being that the Orks as a whole are the only faction with a sense of humor about the grimdark galaxy they inhabit.

In any case, without such an element, it would fall to the players to introduce this humor into the game - look to /tg/'s canon for proof of that. If the Orks did not exist, it would be necessary to invent them.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

So they're clowns that kill, maim and burn. 

Doesn't click.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> So they're clowns that kill, maim and burn.


Sooo...then just normal clowns.
Wait no orks aren't creepy. They're non-creepy clowns, yes I know that's not possible.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> However, the Orks cannot be said to be part of those encroaching upon humanity's domain and wiping it out once and for all simply because of the fact that they squabble amongst themselves far too often to pose a serious or as serious of a threat as the other alien races.


The Orks can't be said to be encroaching upon humanity because they've always been there. The threat has never gone away. To this day some of the most brutal wars the Imperium has ever fought have been against the Orks. They are arguably the greatest material threat the Imperium faces. The most numerous, the most aggressive.



> And more importantly, it isn't on their agenda. They don't specifically have the Imperium in their sights.


Only Chaos can even be argued to be specifically gunning for the Imperium. Several races don't even have the Imperiums doom as a side effect of their main goal. The Orks main agenda certainly would not end well for the Imperium.



> Moving on, what role do the Orks really serve nowadays?


The Orks have a very important role to play. The Orks are numerous enough that their presence on any world doesn't need explaining and aggressive enough that their status as a villain is obvious. Their rapid reproduction, vast numbers and disjointed leadership mean that they can be routinely beaten without reducing their galactic threat. Their motives are easily understood but no less terrifying for it. They are, in short, the perfect villain.



Malus Darkblade said:


> The Necrons and the Tyranids are much more dangerous than the Orks. With the Greenskins, they can be bribed, manipulated or tricked. You can't do those things with the Necrons or the Tyranids.


Actually you certainly can negotiate with the Necrons, but you can't really bribe Orks. All Orks want to do is fight, there is simply no way to get them to avoid that. All you can hope for is to convince them to fight someone else, but given the way Ork society functions this only delays the inevitable and likely makes it worse in the long run.



> Had they have been around back in the Emperor's day, I'm quite certain the Great Crusade would have come to a screeching halt.


I call bullshit. The modern Imperium has beaten back both these foes on ocassion and the Great Crusade blazed through thousands of alien empires to conquer the galaxy in a mere 200 years. There is nothing that could stop it.



> The alien grunted a stream of curses in Gothic as it struggled in the knight’s grip.


I assume that was supposed to disprove what Serpion said? Despite him pointing out that Orks are capable of learning Gothic, and speaking it. The Ork is swearing in Gothic because its swearing at the Marine, that doesn't mean that the Ork only speaks Gothic.



Protoss119 said:


> I am of the opinion that the Orks not only have a place in 40k, but are necessary for the grim darkness of 40k to be taken seriously for one reason: Bathos. It is true that the Orks are a comic element in an otherwise dark and depressing universe, but that comic element serves to make all else in the galaxy seem darker by contrast, being that the Orks as a whole are the only faction with a sense of humor about the grimdark galaxy they inhabit.


Could not agree more.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

kwak76 said:


> Orks were at one point the biggest threat to the Imperium.


 I have to disagree. Orks are STILL the biggest threat the Imperium. Orks can never truly be defeated. The necrons can potentially be driven back into their tombs, the tyranids can be killed off (after all, a single astartes chapter defeated hive fleet behemoth on its own) and by all accounts humanity is evolving into a psychic race that will make the threat of the chaos gods a thing of the past. But Orks are a fungus and once they infect a planet they never go away. 

Orks outnumber every other race in the known universe. Orkish chatter can be heard coming from neighboring galaxies. They are everywhere and the only thing they want is to kill everything that is not an ork for shits and giggles. They have no motive beyond looting and slaughter. 

Some people do not get the joke of the Orks, the thing about them is that the grim dark future of the 41st millenium is not grimdark at all for them because they love it. Imagine a person who would want to live in the 41st millenium, imagine the kind of person who would wake up with a smile on their face every day in a world where the biblical apocalypse was happening all around you, imagine a person who would look up at the sky and see ravenous horrors raining down on them and cry out with glee because a genocide was about to start. Now after decades of war and countless billions of deaths that person survives hell on earth. That person turns to his friends and says. "That was so much fun, lets go to the planet next door and do it all over again!!!" So the person and his friends build a spaceship, travel across the cold void between the stars, find a quiet planet of peaceful people they have never met before, and rain death and carnage upon them for no other reason than because its fun. 

That is the Orks. An entire species of psychopaths designed that outnumber you by infinity who will never stop attacking you, ever. The one positive thing that can be said about them is that they are totally indiscriminate, they are as big a threat to everyone as they are humanity.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

None of what you described takes away from the Orks. In fact, those are the traits of the Orks that are legitimately fitting in this setting. What's jarring and silly is the ludicrous terms, titles, and names that are associated with them.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

Phoebus said:


> None of what you described takes away from the Orks. In fact, those are the traits of the Orks that are legitimately fitting in this setting. What's jarring and silly is the ludicrous terms, titles, and names that are associated with them.


Phoebus, do you just hate ork terms and titles when they are being attributed by non orks (I hate it) or the terminology full stop, you would think a military like the Imperium has would have better designations for enemy units than the terms the natives use


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

GabrialSagan said:


> ...and by all accounts humanity is evolving into a psychic race that will make the threat of the chaos gods a thing of the past.


It's actually established that the threat of Chaos only grows as humanity slowly edges closer towards it's psychic potential.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Oldman78 said:


> Phoebus, do you just hate ork terms and titles when they are being attributed by non orks (I hate it) or the terminology full stop, you would think a military like the Imperium has would have better designations for enemy units than the terms the natives use


Both, but I agree that it is _especially_ jarring when the Imperials use those terms. The Imperium of Man is a rabidly xenophobic state with little respect for its enemies other than for grudging recognition of the threat they might pose. I really have a hard time seeing them employ the same terms are Orks without batting an eye. Every time I read one of them mention a "Killer Kan", or whatever, I half-expect it to be used as a punch-line of some sort.

My dislike for 40k Orks goes beyond the titles and terms, though. I genuinely don't like the whole "scrap, trash" aspect of their technology. I think it's a cheap, comedic turn on the old Tolkien Orcish theme, wherein the Orks employed a grim, dark sort of industry to churn out their brutal war machine. By contrast, 40k Orks churn out ramshackle garbage whose function is predicated on their belief that it _somehow works._ Again, it's jarring to me that this _works_ to the extent that it's comparable to the technology that highly advanced species such as the Eldar and the Necrons have developed since time immemorial. I don't like it because it strikes me as plot armor of sorts, but I especially don't like it since the way it is portrayed (junkyard vehicles and weapons) reinforces the crude, comedic approach to the species in 40k.

The sum of the Ork in 40k just undermines the feel of the setting in my eyes. I concede that this is not the case for everyone, though.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> It's actually established that the threat of Chaos only grows as humanity slowly edges closer towards it's psychic potential.


Its established that the threat of chaos will grow as humanity goes through its transformation. It is also established that once the metamorphosis is complete the new psyker race will be immune from daemonic possession and will be able to casually banish daemons back the warp. Read your 6th ed.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

Phoebus said:


> Both, but I agree that it is _especially_ jarring when the Imperials use those terms. The Imperium of Man is a rabidly xenophobic state with little respect for its enemies other than for grudging recognition of the threat they might pose. I really have a hard time seeing them employ the same terms are Orks without batting an eye. Every time I read one of them mention a "Killer Kan", or whatever, I half-expect it to be used as a punch-line of some sort.
> 
> My dislike for 40k Orks goes beyond the titles and terms, though. I genuinely don't like the whole "scrap, trash" aspect of their technology. I think it's a cheap, comedic turn on the old Tolkien Orcish theme, wherein the Orks employed a grim, dark sort of industry to churn out their brutal war machine. By contrast, 40k Orks churn out ramshackle garbage whose function is predicated on their belief that it _somehow works._ Again, it's jarring to me that this _works_ to the extent that it's comparable to the technology that highly advanced species such as the Eldar and the Necrons have developed since time immemorial. I don't like it because it strikes me as plot armor of sorts, but I especially don't like it since the way it is portrayed (junkyard vehicles and weapons) reinforces the crude, comedic approach to the species in 40k.
> 
> The sum of the Ork in 40k just undermines the feel of the setting in my eyes. I concede that this is not the case for everyone, though.


I see your point, The orks have have become a caricature of themselves, and in my opinion the space wolves blood angels and dark angels are going the same way, I would be very interested to hear how you would have the orks portrayed


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

GabrialSagan said:


> Its established that the threat of chaos will grow as humanity goes through its transformation. It is also established that once the metamorphosis is complete the new psyker race will be immune from daemonic possession and will be able to casually banish daemons back the warp. Read your 6th ed.


The 6th edition rulebook states: "Throughout the Imperium, the tide of psychically active humans continues to rise on a daily basis, yet that Mankind will survive this deluge at all is by no means certain." I'll concede that the rulebook also surmises that if humanity is able to achieve it's psychic potential it may well usher in a new "golden age", but that is far from certain. 

Any chance of survival relies on the Emperor enduring long enough to keep the depredations of Chaos at bay for humanity to collectively evolve to a psionic state of existence capable of fending for themselves. If such an achievement is even possible, it is wildly hypothetical considering the Time of Ending is upon us and the Imperium is soon to fall. 

What is boils down to is, the fact that, "as Humanity evolves towards its psychic potential, the threat of Chaos grows greater with every passing generation" (Codex: Chaos Daemons). With the Golden Throne failing and the Emperor soon to be unable to sustain himself, humanity is doomed... "for without the Emperor's protection, Mankind would be scattered and alone in the darkness, utterly helpless before the dark temptations of Chaos". You only have to look at the phenomenon known as the Great Awakening to see what awaits Mankind as more and more powerful psykers begin to emerge.


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

Personally I hate the orks. 

I think they are a relic from the 4k start...which was full of crazy and ridiculous stuff, and more importantly, almost a clone of Fantasy. 

How can I take seriously a novel were Imperial soldiers speak of incoming "fighta-bomma"? Killa kans? Supa stompa?

Don't get me wrong, they amuse me (that comic about the ork flyboys was hilarious), but I cannot take them as a real" opponent" even when they take slaves and roast people to eat them.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Romanov77 said:


> Personally I hate the orks.
> 
> I think they are a relic from the 4k start...which was full of crazy and ridiculous stuff, and more importantly, almost a clone of Fantasy.
> 
> ...


There's a saying,

you laugh at the orks running towards you, until they reach you.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Oldman78 said:


> I see your point, The orks have have become a caricature of themselves, and in my opinion the space wolves blood angels and dark angels are going the same way, I would be very interested to hear how you would have the orks portrayed


I think the Space Wolves had reached their nadir insofar as becoming a caricature before they were rescued by Abnett's _Prospero Burns_ and Wraight's subsequent stories. I'm not so sure that the Blood Angels were ever handled poorly until stuff like the Sanguinor and the Sanguinary Guard popped up. Their background material was questionable at best, an attempt to make up for an obvious effort to sell new miniatures. Perhaps I'm too cynical, or perhaps the fact that I'm an outsider to the hobby (I only read the novels, play the computer games, etc.) gives me a more critical perspective.

I'm not the right person to ask about the Dark Angels because I'm partial to the Chapter. Are they handled poorly? Yes, I think so. The authors tasked with writing the Unforgiven are so concerned with conveying how important the Hunt for the Fallen is to them that they portray the Dark Angels and their Successors in an illogical (to say the least) light.

As far as the Orks go? Well, I think Abnett, Dembski-Bowden, and Werner have each shown that the Orks can be portrayed in a savage, ruthless, and fearsome manner - without necessarily resulting to slapstick. I would assume the next logical step would be to get rid of the ridiculous naming conventions used for them, and to improve on the way their technology is portrayed (as in, Not Junkyard). But there's the thing: that will never happen. The Squats might have been retconned outright, but that was before the Age of the Internet - and they had never been a major part of the game to begin with. The Orks are too entrenched in this setting to be realistically changed. The calendar is sitting at 999.M41, and thus there is no time to introduce any sort of Deus Ex Machina to reinvent an entire species and the way it does business.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

The Orks at to the Imperium of Man what the Gauls were to the Roman Empire. Dirty, Savage, ucultured and untrained beasts fighting and killing for no good reason. They are a threat to the Imperium because, like the Gauls, they want valuable resources the Imperium owns. They are also bord, it is a sign of their horsy lives.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

emporershand89 said:


> The Orks at to the Imperium of Man what the Gauls were to the Roman Empire. Dirty, Savage, ucultured and untrained beasts fighting and killing for no good reason. They are a threat to the Imperium because, like the Gauls, they want valuable resources the Imperium owns. They are also bord, it is a sign of their horsy lives.


Yea, that's not even close to accurate. 


@Phoebus

I'm not so sure it would be that hard to start making the orks more 'serious'. For example it would be easy to insert a line into the next codex saying something along the lines of 'such terminology is of course not used by the Imperium, but is rather a Low Gothic approximation'. Suddenlly you still have Nobs, fighta bombas etc, that's just the ork names for things. 

It would a think be a matter of approaching the tone of the Codex differently to previous ones. Play up the dangerous and ruthless side of orks, keep some humour but make it black in the extreme. Emphasis the brutality of the orkoid race. One way might be to show things like the orkish slave worlds, and the horror of a warband on the warpath.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Rems,

I meant in terms of the sort of radical changes that I'd want to see. In my perfect world, not even the Orks would use comical, slapstick terminology for themselves. To say nothing of half of their so-called technology (and thus their units, etc.) being revamped to something altogether more ominous.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I think ork's play a essential role in 40k. Hell the background has become so grim dark and pointlessly hopeless that I often wounder why anyone living in the 40k universe doesn't just kill themselves as soon as they are able. At a certain point you have to inject humor or hope into a story or else it loses it's appeal to most. 

I know some like 40k ultra edgy and crap, but seriously after a certain point grim dark comes off less depressing and dark then it does meaningless. To me it becomes a story told by a half insane sadist, to a room of deaf people. In other words a story with no purpose other then to be depressing.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Well, the depression that afflicts swathes of the Imperium is obviously countered by the religious zealotry and other forms of fanaticism that inform human thought in the 41st millennium. Oppressive governments have been turning discontent against "outsiders" and "the other" for as long as there have been oppressive governments, after all. :wink:


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Welcome back LukeV.

Like Phoebus said, the Imperial Creed keeps everyone in line. Also, only a handful of people in the Imperium are actually aware of how dire a situation the empire is really in and they keep their mouths shut for a reason.

Even the Emperor lives on, suffering in agony, not only to save humanity from the predations of the Warp but I imagine himself as well. I doubt he could hide his soul from the pantheon for long.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Rems said:


> Yea, that's not even close to accurate.


I have to disagree Rems. Yes they have their Comical guttery language, and yes they do stupid shit that makes us all laugh during a round of DoW. However the general idea is that they are a nomadic enemy looking to conquer lands to rule amongst themselves ja? This was exactly what the Germanics and Gauls were and I would like to throw the Huns into the mix as well. 

If not that then perhaps Planet of the Apes was floating on some writers mind perhaps.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

emporershand89 said:


> I have to disagree Rems. Yes they have their Comical guttery language, and yes they do stupid shit that makes us all laugh during a round of DoW. However the general idea is that they are a nomadic enemy looking to conquer lands to rule amongst themselves ja? This was exactly what the Germanics and Gauls were and I would like to throw the Huns into the mix as well.
> 
> If not that then perhaps Planet of the Apes was floating on some writers mind perhaps.


Again no.

The 'Gauls' (there not being any single tribe or people called 'the Gauls', let alone the 'Germanics') were not


emporershand89 said:


> *Dirty, Savage, ucultured and untrained beasts* fighting and killing for no good reason.


Nor were they nomadic. 

The Gallic tribes lived in cities, for heavens sakes, they were an urban society. They had advanced metal working techniques (steel longswords, chain-mail, beautiful golden ornaments). They were wealthy; vast hoards of gold coins have been found and they imported wine from across the Mediterranean. 

A wealthy, urban society, one with advanced metal working techniques and commercial activity across the Mediterranean is not a society which is dirty, savage and uncultured. These weren't savages living in rude huts. 

If you don't know what you're talking about, don't bring it up.


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

Look at Armageddon and say Orks aren't at all grimdark.


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