# Versus The Death Company



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

*Versus: Week Two​*
The Death Company is easily one of the most dreaded assault units in the game. They can be anywhere from two to ten men strong, but 8 or 10 is the most formidable.

They can use Jump Packs, a Rhino or a Drop Pod (or, if you buy it as its own slot, they could always load up into a Crusader), but Jump Packs are the most common choice. And they're almost always accompanied by a Chaplain (usually Lemartes)

So what makes them so scary?
Base 2 attacks (not including +1 for BP & CCW), full Space Marine stats, Frag & Krak, plus Feel No Pain, Fearless, Furious Charge and Rending!

On the charge, a Death Company with Lemartes or a regular chaplain is I5, S5, A4, and reroll misses. And every reroll is one more chance to get a S5 rend.

They are a truly terrifying unit, but they do have their weaknesses.

Feel No Pain doesn't work against Instant Death or CC attacks that ignore armour (power weapons, rending attacks in CC), so S8 ordinance are one of the few shooting attacks that are worth directing against them, meanwhile high-initiative power-weapon squads like Howling Banshees are a serious threat, but other than that, there's not a lot that can stop these guys if they're used properly.

So how would you handle The Death Company (And a Chaplain)?


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## Janus Blackheart (Jan 24, 2008)

I am anxious to see the answers because I have been having a lot of dificulty with this unit lately. The guy I play against runs about 6 jumpacks with a chaplain and usually a librarian nearby to deal with any characters that might counter charge. So far my tactic has been to just through units at them to tie them up and work on the rest of the army. Tactical squad and maybe a drednaught and then move everything else back and hope for a round of shooting. But the DC and Vet assault squad always end up doing the most damage.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Bait tactics have always worked for me. By placing a unit 'in the way', the DC is practically forced to go through them. This will generally bunch up the DC and might redirect them just enough so that they can be made legal targets for whatever shooting I can send their way.

This has worked using IG, SoB, and Eldar armies. A canny opponent will most likely not fall for it, but then, he may as having your DC going around obstacles is not in the nature of most BA players, lol.

With IG, counter-assaulting with more bodies than the DC can handle works just as well, but the point-for-point investment is usually in the favor of the BA player. 

The psychological value the DC promote is not to be underestimated. Most armies will dedicate half their resources to eliminating this unit from the start. Allowing the DC to advance and focusing fire on anything that might be considered a support unit for the DC advance might be a better option. If your force is mobile, you may get up to 3 rounds of fire off before the DC make contact. Tying them up with Fearless/Horde units is a great tactic, especially when those units have high initiative as well, or just too many numbers to chew through. Bugs and IG both have units that fit this description and can stall the DC almost indefinitely (or even take them out of the game for good), for a fairly small investment in points.

Just keep in mind, not matter how good the save, every dice rolled is a chance at failure! What an uplifting thought!:victory:


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## DA CRAZY (Feb 29, 2008)

I have never versed Death Company before, but I would use a LOT of warbikes to shoot them from a range and turbo boost when they get too close. I would also use a lot of regular boyz (30 men in a squad) to slowly were down the enemy with furious charge and a sheer amount of attacks. Plus they would have to kill at least 18 to make my men take leadership tests of any kind... I never versed Death Company before so I could not tell you if this strategy would work.....:victory:


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

DA CRAZY said:


> I have never versed Death Company before, but I would use a LOT of warbikes to shoot them from a range and turbo boost when they get too close. I would also use a lot of regular boyz (30 men in a squad) to slowly were down the enemy with furious charge and a sheer amount of attacks. Plus they would have to kill at least 18 to make my men take leadership tests of any kind... I never versed Death Company before so I could not tell you if this strategy would work.....:victory:


The Warbike tactic may have some merit, but keep in mind that a Death Company would probably easily chew through a unit of 30 Boyz. We're just cool like that.

Katie D


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

a unit of 50 conscripts, on the other hand...especially with an independent Comissar attached to make them fearless...


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Yup... especially if those conscripts happen to be in cover.... that many attacks going simo could put a little pain into those FNP crazies...


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## DA CRAZY (Feb 29, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> The Warbike tactic may have some merit, but keep in mind that a Death Company would probably easily chew through a unit of 30 Boyz. We're just cool like that.
> 
> Katie D


Yah...boyz die all the time..... but that is why you have the max amount of troop choices:grin:....plus nobz with the dreaded power claws.....:biggrin:


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## frost_reaver (Dec 15, 2007)

While I almost never play AGAINST Death Co, the roomate plays necrons. Here are some of the tactics that have worked for him:

Necrons:
I can't say enough about Scarab Swarms. Very cheap, lots of wounds, really pisses me off. While the Death Co has never been destroyed (or even harmed much), Scarabs slow you down. They move as fast as Death Co (I always equip my DC with jump packs) so I can't avoid them well and if they get the charge instead of the DC, they can tie them up forever. While this doesn't destroy the DC, what's it really matter anyway? As long as they tied up, they can't hurt anything else, and they aren't worth any VP anyway.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

A sideways hail of plasma fire seems to knock down the fanatics pretty well. In most games, I have 5-30 plasma weapons strewn about my army.

I have great faith in the Machine God to keep my guns from exploding my marines.

-Dirge


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

i use the bait tactic. one rhino with a squad of 10 marines w meltas (expendable) shoots down the side towards a seemingly juicy target. the DC go to intercept them and stop said juicy target exploding and hey presto, the DC are tied up in combat for awhile and somewhat closer to their board edge than yours.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

What about using Plague Marines?

FNP vs FNP, meanwhile blight grenades and T5 take some of the wind out of their sails...of course the rends are still going to smart, disregarding both their toughness and their FNP check. Still, their melta or plasma guns are going to take a couple out on the way in


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## Sons of Russ (Dec 29, 2007)

DA CRAZY said:


> I have never versed Death Company before, but I would use a LOT of warbikes to shoot them from a range and turbo boost when they get too close. I would also use a lot of regular boyz (30 men in a squad) to slowly were down the enemy with furious charge and a sheer amount of attacks. Plus they would have to kill at least 18 to make my men take leadership tests of any kind... I never versed Death Company before so I could not tell you if this strategy would work.....:victory:


40 attacks at str 5, rending, rerolling misses......

In this case, your WS4 boys are opening themselves up to even more rending attacks as there will be about 20 rerolls....

[mathhammer beer helmet engaged....]



roughly 6.5 rends for the first batch of hits....

then roughly 3.5 rends for the 2nd batch....

_*thats 10 orks DEAD*_ [expecially useful against nobs/bosses] and about 25x more str 5 hits that wound on 3's....

*another 14 orks dead*.

and that's before the chappie adds his two cents....

I've been able to break a 24 boy mob AND kill the warboss in the same phase...


I find the key is you must lock them in combat without allowing them to get the charge.

Easier said then done of course, because that's my number one priority when handling my DC. 

I will sacrifice a small tac squad or rhino to make sure they get their charge in.....


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## pyroanarchist (Feb 29, 2008)

I haven't tried it personally, but I don't think the Plague Marines would do much. Point for point its probably not worth your plague squad unless you wittle them down with fire before CC starts. Plague Marines have initiative 3 so half the squad will be dead before they even get to counter attack. You reduce thier attacks with blight grenades, but theres still gonna be some rending. The FNP will help, but I doubt you would get half as many DC kills as they would get on PM's.

Personally when I've played them in the past I liked to throw a squad of Berzerkers at them and tie them up for a while, but now I think a 20 strong squad of summoned lesser deamons might work better, low point cost and invulnerable saves. At the very least they would tie up the DC for a while.

I've also wasted a drednaught to throw at them and tie them up until they could tear a hole in it. Its an effective tactic if you just have to slow them down a turn or two to rally.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Lesser daemons are a brilliant idea. Cheap throw-away troops with an invul save to soak up the rends. Not sure how long they'll last, but they should slow them down.

Denying the charge is key though. DC are much more effective when they get their furious charge, extra attacks and chaplain rerolls


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## maxtangent (Jan 31, 2008)

I have yet to face them, but with a 'stealer shock army, it seems the DC would get to kill practically anything of their choice, then consolidate into another unit or face a counter charge. I would anticipate 'letting' them do their damage, (awfully nice of me, since I doubt I could prevent it) pounding their support units with MC's and Zoeys, and counter charging with as many 'stealer units as could reach them. Rending vs. Rending seems fair.

How effective would a 'stealer counter charge be?


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## Frostbite (Oct 17, 2007)

Played against them last night with some IG, and found my antitank squad was perfect for thinning them down. Unfortunately, I only had one said squad, so they only dropped three before they rest hit my lines and proceeded to eat through my entire gunline. I'll have to keep that in mind for when I used Tau, and try to direct as many railgun slugs into them as possible.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Get a Skyray, and maybe a team of Pathfinders. Paint the DC with markerlights and just volley the seekers at them. Ten points a pop to vape a 35 point model = good trade.

Sniper drones and Ionheads might not be bad either. No instakill, but at least you;ve got high strength AP3.


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## evantar (Dec 31, 2007)

Banshees(all have power weapons), and wytches tend to tear through my Death Company like a hot knife through butter. I've had many a game where my DC was dead by the end of the second round, or even the start of it. It really sucks when a power weapon squad has a higher initiative than my Death Company does. It sucks even more so when the person you play uses proxy minis so you don't see the power weapons 'til its too late.


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## SyNide (Nov 24, 2007)

Good Example of how i deal with DC using Raven Guard: Shrike. I just played a match where i managed to outmaneuver his DC and get the charge on them with shrike. over the course of 2 combats he easily took out 8 of them(10 man squad though). After that hit him with a hidden powerfist.

For DE the answer is pretty simple: Wychs and your Archon.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

I'm not sure if this has been brought up, but I thought it deserved mentioning...

Having a Chappie w/ Litanies of Hate allows a unit to reroll all failed to-hit dice, not all failed to-rend dice. 

I've seen this abused a few times before and it does bear mentioning in this thread. Keep your eyes open guys...


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Well, rends are scored on the hit roll, not the wound, so by rerolling misses, it *does* give the squad more chances to rend.

evantar, if your enemy is using proxies then have him point out what each and every model is before the game starts. It's basically cheating to go "Oh, those Guardians are actually banshees" once they get into range. If you use counts as rules you *have* to make the other player aware of what everything is.

That said, Banshees and wytches are nasty indeed. Even if we get the charge it's still simultaneous attacks. At least the banshees we can outrun most of the time. A crafty eldar player can use these scary troops to herd the DC away from other targets untill they catch up with the boys in black and cut them down.


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## MindFreaky (Jan 24, 2008)

I've only played against a Blood Angel Death Company once, and I'm still really inexperienced, but I was able to stop the tide of slaughter these guys would have done by *denying them the charge* (My goodness, that was important) with Tzeentch marked Possessed Marines.

I know, I know Possessed are a rather poor choice for the chaos player (and that tzeentch mark's price tag didn't help), but a 4+ inv save certainly came in handy vs Rending. I rolled Fleet of foot, (so hardly an awesome roll), but that still came in handy for denying the charge.

Just something to think about, though even I'm thinking of dropping the unreliable Possessed, even though they've been ok.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Shooting the heck out of them is a decent way to go about things if you've got the shots to do it (they die half as much as basic marines do to incoming fire but also cost twice as much when they're paid for, so the essential shooting return is basically the same). I'm to the point that I consider basic marines to be decently vulnerable to shooting compared to many things I've faced lately (plague marines, SW terminators with runic charms, meganobz + grotsnik). If the BA player is foolish enough to have the death company be his only fast unit, focused fire should be able to handle them without overmuch fuss. Turning an anti-tank battery on them is also not a terrible idea if they live through the other fire.

Of course, charging them is almost necessary if they're within charge range. Don't give your opponent the extra movement into your lines or the rerolled attacks from the chaplain. Careful/craft movement can make it so you only get a few of your guys into cc with the death company, allowing you to lose only a couple guys and tie them up for their turn in which they will kill your guys and you can then get another round of shooting on the exposed death company. 

To do this crafty charge basically form your squad into a widely spaced (maximum coherency if possible) perpendicular line to the death company with your closest guy about 4-5" away (for a good margin of error on your part). When you charge you will only get a few models engaged (if you do it right, 1 in base contact and 1 or 2 in assist). Those 2 or 3 guys will probably get rocked, and then if you have good morale you will pile in and keep them from moving. Works great for guard if you've got voxes and whatnot.

My ork solution is the same one that solves nearly everything: powerklaw nob in a massive mob of orks.


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## GhostBear (Feb 17, 2008)

In my limited experience playing the game I have yet to face a Death Company. How do Harlequins fare against them?


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Harlies have the undisputed initiative advantage, and a better WS, so they can do a fair amount of damage, but with no power weapons the DC is likely to save most of the wounds and then FNP half the ones that get through. If you give them all kisses they could score some lucky rends, but when the DC's turn comes they're going to do more damage on average, thanks to their higher strength and the harlie's lower saves. Though they will get to save against the rends.

Tough call, but all in all I would keep your harlies well away from the DC and throw Banshees at it instead. Save the harlies for squads that have less ability to withstand their assault.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Chaos has quite a lot of counters for death company.

Lash is great of course. You basically have two options here: move them away or isolate them for a charge. Double lash armies probably won't suffer too badly from DC. There are some things to consider when moving them, like how it would be nice to have lemartes at the back where he can't fight. One option is to spread them in a long line and charge a spawn or something into one end. This ought to keep them occupied for a turn.

To kill them I find that the best thing is to charge them with high initiative guys with power weps. I find that khorne berzerkers with a power wep champion can do massive damage on the charge (going in with WS, S, I and A all at 5 does hurt) and even the normal zerkers will do a lot. This is unlikely to kill all of the DC tho. Another fun option is chaos termies with mark of slaanesh, some preferably with lightning claws. I'd probably go for a unit with a reaper, then give the remainder a mixture of combi weapons (there are good arguments for all types) and lightning claws.

My other main army is Tau. These can have real problems with DC due to lacking any power weps and having little that instant kills them. Yes, you have railguns, but usually ony 3 or 4 of them.

My Tau deal with DC by hitting them with pretty much everything they have until all of them are dead, and it usually works. I find that kroot are truly excellent here. On average they kill more DC with their shooting than FWs do, on a point for point basis. It takes 24 shots from kroot to kill a DC compared to 18 from FWs, but 24 kroot are cheaper than 18 FWs (note that kroot shooting is more efficient than FW shooting against all MEQs ). The DC will then probably have to charge the kroot in cover, so we get to attack again - before we die in a mess. 

The great thing here is that the kroot will almost never survive a charge from DC. They do a little damage and then fall over dead, so you can count on getting to fire in your next shooting phase. The worst possible result is to have the DC locked during your shooting phase and kill your guys in your turn, so that they are free to go and charge something else in their turn. For this reason I *hate* the idea of using something like plague marines to tie the DC up. Sure the DC are going to be there for a little while, but they are certainly going to win the fight and you have no control over what happens after that. Your decoy unit's job is to take the charge and die, letting the rest of your army pour close range shooting into the DC and then charge to finish it off (don't charge if you play tau ).


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I just battled against another BA player for the first time. He was running a fairly standard no-armor BA list, which left my MM bikes free to focus on blowing the holy hell out of his DC. I managed to whittle them down to half strength before they hit my lines. Though evan a half strength DC is a scary thing.

Ba tend not to pack a lot of armour along besides maybe a baal or two, so chances are you;re not missing out by focusing your antitank squads on that DC. Fortunately for me, I tend to pack a lot of treads in my lists,s o it makes it a hard choice where you want to point those big guns


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## forgotten hero (Nov 23, 2007)

Using my mech eldar, I combine shot my prisms when i had the inevitable chance when they where in the open and butched the entire squad, but when thats not the chase, my opponent quickly learnt just to jump them into cover, risking the dangerous terrain roll. 

So now, its just consentrated fire, wittle them down to say 5 or so, then move in with the Fire dragons and/or Harlequins/Autarch. 

There is no doubt they are leathal unit if ignored, but firing at them too much allows for the rest of your opponents army free to do pretty much what it likes, so its a balancing act between softening them up for your combat units to move in and dealing with the rest of there army.


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## azalin_r3x (Feb 25, 2008)

Since i love harlies, i am not gonna change them to banshees or anything else, so that's how i deal with DC. 
It is all about who charges , If i charge i usually destroy about 8 DC members, if they charge me... i am annihilated
(he plays them 10 + 1 chaplain )


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I would always rather risk a dangerous terrian roll than leave my DC exposed.

After all, we can FNP the dangerous terrain wound ;-)

Azlain, have you ever actually hit the DC with your harlies? I'm curious to hear your results.

It seems to me that the DC would chew through harlies, even if they're flat footed. Sure they have the initiative in their favor, but there's only a 1 in 6 chance for rending...meanwhile a banshee's power weapon will fuck my shit up every time.


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## azalin_r3x (Feb 25, 2008)

i started playing with a friend, he chose blood angels mostly for DC and i chose eldar mostly for harlies hehe
so i have played quite enough games against them.

with a group of 8 harlies, if i charge i make about 31 attacks (with jester), i also go from s3 to 4, that's about 5 rendings, and some more hits wich eventually deal 2-3 more wounds. that's why i said i usually kill like 8 of them.
On the other hand, if they charge me.. , i get much less attacks, and on s3... poor me i get to kill like 3-4 of his dc member and ofc i am innihilated 

so i just need to get a bit more experienced on guessing inches range (been counting in cantimeters for a whole life ) and get lucky on fleet of foot if he is ofc in my max walking range


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

My advice would be to never rely on your fleet of foot. Never.
Only use it when you don't need to, when you're just eating space between you and the enemy, when there's no thread of being charged (either because of terrain or because it;s too early, or there's nobody nearby), and exploit the cover.

You should never fleet into a charge because you never know when you're going to end up short and get raped. Plus Harlies can pack fusion pistols. Against Meq in general and Deathco in specific, you're going to *want* those S8 AP1 shots before you jump in. Any assault unit equipped with pistols or assault weapons will *always* want to fire before they charge, if for no other reason than the fact that for many armies your shooting attacks will hit easier than your assault attacks, and it;s wounds that are made that cannot be countered.

So use the terrain and never fleet into a charge against the DC and you;ll see better results.


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## azalin_r3x (Feb 25, 2008)

i don't relly on fleet, especially since i am not usually lucky on that roll 

as for the pistols... with 6" range.. i think it's a waste of too many points (20points each). if i am in range to shoot those pistols, then i am in range to charge.. so just shoot normal pistols and shrieker and then just dance ^^

and ofcourse i am really carefull about distances and unit placing, since as i said, it's all about who charges the other


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## Archangel41 (Mar 9, 2008)

I play Blood Angels and Harlequins screw me over 99% of the time.


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## sneakNINJA (Jan 24, 2008)

As a frequent DC player, here is what I'd be most afraid of: charging guys with power weapons. DC are not half as scary when you charge them with a good matchup as they are when they charge you. +1I, re-roll rendings, +1A, +1S for non-rending attacks is a huge difference. On the charge, a squad of DC with a chaplain charging an ork squad will hit with 30 attacks (6 +1 rends on average, roll for 23 wounds (wounding with 16, and having the ork player pass 2-3 armor saves, for a total of 20 casualties) before the ork player gets to strike back. By this time, nothing should be in base any more. By contrast, when those DC guys get charged by another ork squad next turn, they'll have 30 attacks without re-rolls, at s4.

As for shooting, assuming you can see the DC Lash + PCannons or Ordnance Cannons have worked well on the chaos side. As for marines, I would just try to ensure the death of the other relevant units first (attack bikes/predators/veterans/etc), since the first squad that the DC charges is probably going to get wiped out. After that happens, try to avoid having them massacre into another squad (so you can shoot them), then set them up for a counter-charge with your power weapon guys or your heavy weapons shooting on turn three (after you've dealt with enough of the other stuff to manage the other stuff while killing the DC). 

The big thing is HQ's with power weapons on the charge. They usually kill 2 or 3 DC before the company can strike back.


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## stormshroud (Apr 27, 2007)

Ok I appreciate this thread is a little old now but my regular BA opponent uses DC as follows.

DC and VAS, with Chaplain attached to the VAS, advance full speed towards my lines. I now have two fast, fearless hard hitting dedicated assult units that will impact at the same pint and tear right through my lines. Even with my infantry guard it is very hard to concentrate enough firepower to bring them down.

On a side note my opponent feels obliged to take the DC as he has already paid for them with his other squads even if it is just 1-2 men in a 500pt game. He feels that this is a little wrong when the background says the DC is only formed on the eve of a great battle. Do any other BA players feel the same?

Finally does the amount of fire you have to pump into a DC squad for little reward VP-wise feel disproportionate to other regular BA opponents? I may have worded that badly, for example a 10-man DC squad with JPs cost 50pts to the BA player if memory serves, yet that can easily survive a disproportionate amount of fire and deal out a horrendous amount of damage.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

stormshroud said:


> Ok I appreciate this thread is a little old now but my regular BA opponent uses DC as follows.


No problem, that's why I left the old Versus threads open. :grin:



> DC and VAS, with Chaplain attached to the VAS, advance full speed towards my lines. I now have two fast, fearless hard hitting dedicated assult units that will impact at the same pint and tear right through my lines. Even with my infantry guard it is very hard to concentrate enough firepower to bring them down.


This is a pretty scary combo, though I think joining the chaplain with the DC is more lethal...sure the fearless is wasted, but rerolling misses means more chances to rend.

In this case, I would still concentrate fire on the DC just because they're so much harder to kill and so much more lethal in combat. However, the two units are going to be very close together, this means any kind of ordinance like a Whirlwind or a Vindicator will be very effective, since even a scatter has a good chance of taking out expensive models.

If you're playing IG then you're bound to have some heavy ordinance. Concentrate the pieplates on this spearhead.

Also, with his VAS and DC both tied together that;s the vast bulk of his assault complement going to one area.

Spread your troops out, or pull up stakes and move if they get too close. A focused spearhead doesn't work as well if you have your army arranged in pincers rather than a solid centralized line. Suddenly he has to decide whether to go right, left or break up. In any case you've limited his hitting power. 

Tanks are very good here because they're mobile and generally have the range to shoot from one side of your army and hit the other. 



> On a side note my opponent feels obliged to take the DC as he has already paid for them with his other squads even if it is just 1-2 men in a 500pt game. He feels that this is a little wrong when the background says the DC is only formed on the eve of a great battle. Do any other BA players feel the same?


I agree with him here. Back in the old days DC was something that formed up for big battles. Then 3rd ed came along and made it so that every time you hit the field you were losing about a quarter of your forces to madness before the game began.

4th ed fixed it a little, but at a price. Technically the DC are optional, but paying for them is not. Every one of our units costs more (except terminators) because you're basically buying that 'free' DC member. Basically, if you're forced to buy them you may as well field them, otherwise you're just wasting points.



> Finally does the amount of fire you have to pump into a DC squad for little reward VP-wise feel disproportionate to other regular BA opponents? I may have worded that badly, for example a 10-man DC squad with JPs cost 50pts to the BA player if memory serves, yet that can easily survive a disproportionate amount of fire and deal out a horrendous amount of damage.


It only costs that little if he's actually fielding 10 squads that each come with a DC marine, then, yeah that's a big, scary 50 point unit.

However, if you're *not* fielding a lot of squads (which, considering how much our units cost, is very likely), then you're only getting a handful of 'free' DC, the rest you pay for yourself, at 25 apiece...so in games where he only has a few squads, that DC is still an expensive unit.

But yes, assuming that he's bringing at least 4 squads but is fielding 10 DC with packs, then you're only getting 20 vp per model, which is cheaper than an assault squad.

However, since our squads cost more, you get a disproportionately *high* amount of VP for wiping out tactical squads and the like. For example, if you wipe out a 5-man tactical squad with no upgrades, you're netting 23 points per model, which is 5 points per model more than you would get from a normal SM 5-man tac with a vet sarge.

Also, in missions like Recon where VP are determined based on the scoring unit's points cost, that relatively low cost comes back to bite us.

So yeah, it sucks to pour a ton of fire on the DC only to get a few points per model more than a normal marine, but you get more points for our easy to kill squads, and either way we;re paying a price.


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## stormshroud (Apr 27, 2007)

Thanks for the reply Galahad.

The reason he opts for fearless on the VAS is so they don't auto-fallback when my Grifons Infernus shells land on them.

Unfortunately the game that got me totally fubar'd by them was an apocolpyse game where an unfortunate deployment split meant that I was pennedin a corner, whilst the BA&SW alliance had about 2/3rds of the board. I was then assaulted on turn 1 before I could bring enough big guns to bear. Usually I would try and get out of the way, it just wasn't happening that game.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Ah, well Apocalypse brings a whole different set of tactics to the game.


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## Kain20k (Mar 3, 2008)

Most Tyranid can take em in cc so I dont really worry about em, if I dont manage to kill most the of the squad within the first turn they waste me but I usually will get the charge with gaunts and what they dont finish genestealers will.


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## teplicuss (Apr 5, 2008)

but remeber death company can feal no pain against plasma, so they get a role to keep going.. i just called GW and found that out.


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## emperor (Apr 2, 2008)

eldar are a great army against DC. a fire prism, a squad of fire dragons and a squad of banshees are easily capable of taking out a full sqd of DC in a single turn


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

The best defence against a rush by one or more fast elite units is to split your army and deploy in opposite corners of the board. He can only send his guys in one direction or if he splits, you can focus your fire on one of his attacks and wipe it out.

With the DC I usually assume it is going to get in. It then becomes a question of damage limitation. I have to make sure that it only kills one unit and can't consolidate after doing so.

When I play my Tau it's normally a kroot unit that gets picked for this job, or sometimes a non-scoring unit like an HQ. They go forwards, increasing the gap between them and the rest of my army, and everyone shoots the DC. Then the DC will charge them and they will die, and everyone else will rapid fire into the DC the following turn.

Remember that, as the "defending" player, you get to choose where the CC happens. He has to charge you, so put your guys where you would like the DC to be in your next shooting phase.

It can be worth setting up a counter-charge. Things like rough riders can do this pretty well and may be worth having if you keep having issues with being charged.


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## v.rius (Apr 9, 2008)

*they rule*

this is tough, i used the death company as my main army a few years ago, it is really strong, but all i did to make it stronger was to add a land raider crusader, they bloody well rule full armor on each side!!!


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## Apoctis (Feb 14, 2008)

I've never myself fought death company but I would stall them with scarabs and then after everything elese dies weshall see if I can't handle them.


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## Brother Enok (Apr 17, 2008)

Has no one used a Vindicator. I find a S10 AP2 Large blast quite effective against the little blighters.


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## Psyan (Apr 6, 2008)

The key against DC is to deny them the charge and to strand them out in the open so that you can shoot the hell out of them. That Vindicator works really nicely, too... although I probably wouldn't build my whole strategy around it.


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## Changer of Ways (Jan 3, 2008)

Death Company, shmeth company.... if they aren't transported (and why would you unless using a land raider) hit 'em with saturation firepower and then make sure that you get the charge off.
They're a vicious, rending, feel no pain berserker squad with a good character leading them. Use power weapons in CC and deny them the charge. Sure those rending attacks are gonna make hamburger out of whoever they're fighting, but you're just gonna have to deal with it.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

One thing. does feel no pain work against rending ranged attacks? Best tactic my friend used against my DC was to throw a whole Gaunt squad, 20 strong against them. There was only three of them at the time, Two taken out by Zoanthropes earlier, Also a good tactic when not in CC. The gaunts didn't wound them but the outnumbered wounds took them out... There was only 4 gaunts left when the last DC fell... :grin:


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## emperor (Apr 2, 2008)

blastmasters!


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## nightmare12369 (Dec 21, 2007)

I use my dark angel bikers with 2 meltaguns and they work, last game 3 of them took out a 10 guy death company squad.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Lord Reevan said:


> One thing. does feel no pain work against rending ranged attacks?


Yes, it does. Feel No Pain only fails to work against weapons whose S are more than double the T of the defending model or attacks that ignore armor *in close combat*.

Check the Universal Special Rules section in the rulebook. Page 74 or 75.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Just to add some extra detail to Katie's post: Rending *close combat* attacks, such as from nids with Rending Claws, Harlequin Kisses, or even an enemy Death company, DO bypass Feel No Pain on a successful rend.

So an assault cannon is no help, but a pack of genestealers will mess them up.


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## Casmiricus (Mar 6, 2008)

I have a special black spot in my heart for BA players. For the guard, a block of 50 Conscripts works wonders. You stick a normal infantry squad in front, wait for them to get massacred, then charge foreward, fire five flamers at the lumped-up DC, and charge.

MMMmmmm....


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## Chase.man259 (Apr 30, 2008)

I have never really played aginst DC but i do know them fairly well (rules wise) so i know what i would do with a few armies.

1. i play nids and i know 2 easy ways to get rid of them pesky bezerkers. firsy shoot them with some fat barbed stranglers from a carnifex so strenght 8 makes it double strenth i belive and they only get one armor save. mop the rest up by baiting with gaunts and countercharge with a brood of geanstealers to finish the job.

2. Grey Knight were my old army and it seems really simple because of all the close combat goodness. Again i would use some stormtroopers as bait and counter charge with some grey knights

3. Some people seem to be saying its tricky with tau but i would make their plasma and stealth team fusion guns( i btink thats what they are) guns my friends for sure. if they are on foot then i guess keep out of charge range and move back using the special jump packs to annoy the heck out of them and whittle them down. i see how if they had jump pack for the DC would cause major problems though.

To me it seem that refusing them charge on anything valuable is the most important rule.

*Remember i have never faced them myself so these arn't concrete ways to fight them just speculations especislly for taau because i only played them for a few months before changing to bugs.*


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

14 plague marines with plague champ with power weapon. Might srtike last, but the death company will wound on a 4+ which only puts them on equal footing in that regard, plague marines have feel no pain, plus bolt pistol and ccw for hth. Plus, say goodbye to the extra attACK FER CHARGING, BLIGHT GRENADES, HAR HAR.:fuck:


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## Kronus (Mar 1, 2008)

Anything that can instakill them esp oridnance. A basilisk, Russ, Demolisher, exorcist, Plasma Cannons and SAG's in particular. Other things that will make a mess of them is big Mobs esp of Orks. The will take the beating and as long as the Nob is a alive in kicking he will claim at least 2 of them. In 5th were casualties can be removed from the back and rending is considerably weakened DC will have a big problem with Orks


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

@Son of Mortarion.

Still thats 3 attacks per model with rending so the higher toughness isn't as special as usual. say you figh t a 5 man DC, thats 15 attacks with rending, hit on a 4+, wound on a 4+ and strike first. That's still got a good chance of taking your Plague marines down.... plus a Chaplain might be attached so that's 5 extra attacks that hit on 3+ and they can re-roll all failed rolls to hitStill if it works for you then respect


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## CallumM27 (Mar 20, 2008)

hit them with a vinicator ordenace shell  simple and easy


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

true, the plague marines get 28 attacks however, as 14 men, 1a+ 1a for additional ccw, plague champ adds an additional attack, and hie 3 are power weapons. Since The death guard game is attrition, the plague marines have the advantage, after the first round, the dc is s4, meaning that they wound on 5+ or rend.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Good point. I'd like to see how that turns out. I usually Make my DC attack weak flanks or transports. they do well against vehicles plus they can destroy the infantry inside. If I faced against something like you I wouldn't aim the DC near the squad. I like your tactic though.... Very effective:victory:


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Only problem with your plan is that is pretty much all you will face when going up against me. probably the best use fer those beasties is assassinating my termies with those rending attacks, they are brutal.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

If you have it covered then respect man. Ypur tactic is probably the one I'd most fear from this thread. The others were good but there are ways around them... Respect man


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Thanks, my army list is a result of having too much caffeine, green stuff and time, combined with many spankings at the hands of orks. I have learned that the most valuable thing that any force can have is resilience, be it through numbers, the ability to shrug off attacks, maximizing the use of terrain, or a combo of those. The main way I would counter the attacks is cover, If I can get licks in, the numbers game might work in my favor, especially if I can unleash rapid fire doom on them first, which is why i take 2 plasma guns in three of my six squads. I am also not afraid of losing models, as I am there for the fun, and enjoy myself regardless of winning, and have had more fun in games where I was stomped than I have had in games where I have won. Again thanks for the positive feedback


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## Juiceypoop (Jun 5, 2008)

Never been on the receiving end of DC. as a chaos and deamons player the units i'd use against them are: tzeench termies - power weapons and 4 plus inv saves will hurt DC, nurglings- 27 wounds, 5 plus invulnerable saves, no instant death, they could tie them up for a while, flamers of tzeench- lots of breath of chaos templates, counter charge with blood crushers of khorne- thats allot of str 6 init 5 attacks with ower weapons.


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## Morgal (Sep 26, 2007)

Heh, bait em by moving what ever is close forward towards them, they have to kill the unit or go around. If they go around i can charge em with my 10 man IG squad.
By moving forward they can't consolidate and it;s fine if they die because...........rough riders will be charging soon..that should deflate there numbers with 8 of them going in. If they survive what ever is close assaults to idefenetly tie them up.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Morgal said:


> Heh, bait em by moving what ever is close forward towards them, they have to kill the unit or go around. If they go around i can charge em with my 10 man IG squad.
> By moving forward they can't consolidate and it;s fine if they die because...........rough riders will be charging soon..that should deflate there numbers with 8 of them going in. If they survive what ever is close assaults to idefenetly tie them up.


:laugh:I love the good old bait and switch, it's even better if you can manage to grab the initiative and charge the dc, as that can guarantee that they will be tied up for at least one turn, and gives your guardsmen a better chance of taking at least one down with them.


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## DarknessDawns (Oct 21, 2007)

parihas if they can survive t he first assult could teat DC apart
wraiths to hold em up with a 3+ invul


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

DarknessDawns said:


> parihas if they can survive t he first assult could teat DC apart
> wraiths to hold em up with a 3+ invul


I think fer necrons a better use of points would be the humble scarab, they are relatively cheap, and can pull down some of those black armored bastards, while keeping them away from anything really valuable.


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## BloodANgels89 (Jun 16, 2008)

I run a 10-man death company with Lemartes. And ANYTHING a death company pulls a charge off on is pretty much dead, i dont care who or what you are  I average 8-11 rends everytime i charge with atleast 8 of my ten still standing. 

Now....my death company has seen glory, and met utter defeat before i can hit anything in cc. My death company die in one of two wayds

A) They get VERY lucky and destroy the baal predators i put infront of them to screen them into CC, then redirect all those yummy str 8 weapons and ap 3 or lower at my death company.
B) As I said, if you get charged by the death company, might as well remove the squad. Dont even bother rolling. Now....what happens with this is....normally theyre surrounded by heavy fire power and multiple squad assault....death company arent very tough without a charge. 

So....hope the BA player chooses a horrible unit to target and wipe out (like i did in MANY of my early games due to over confidence in my D.C) then magically be left out in the open for fire and multiple assaults.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

10 man nobz squad with 'eavy armor, doc and cybork bodies will eat up dc, especially when you add big choppas in liberally.


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## Apoctis (Feb 14, 2008)

Well the DC are easy tie up with wraiths and scarabs then when they finish blast em.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

The invulnerable nature of Wraiths is nice, I think 2 squads are pretty good if they work together - 24 attacks on the charge - wounding marines on 2s - and they have a nice 3+ inv save. High I score too so they usually go first.


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## Hashulaman (Apr 9, 2008)

Death company, Oh i hate them. I lost a 10 man plague marine squad to them on their charge. They were able to get 14 rending hits..........Against anything like that I shoot before it ever gets to me. Or charge them with berserkers. Thats the only troop chocie in chaos marines i can think of that can match death's company in close combat.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Death Company in 5th is going to be FUCKED

Rending is nerfed against vehicles (no biggie) 
FNP is now defeated by AP 1 or 2 shooting attacks (so plasma guns will murder your DC)
You can no longer consolidate into another assault, so after the initial assault the DC will be exposed to shooting until it gets into another assault. So no steamrolling down the enemy gunline.
Here's the biggie: Because wounds are assigned (by the defender) BEFORE saves, it's possible for the defender to pile all or most of the rends onto one model! For example, your DC scores 18 hits against a 6 man chaos squad. 3 of those are rends. Rend 1 goes on man 1, hits 1-5 go to dudes 2-6. Wrap aroound. Rend 2 goes to man 1, hits 6-10 go to dudes 2-6, wraparound. Rend 3 goes to man 1, hits 11-15 go to dudes 2-6. Now instead of flat-out killing three guys, one guy gets overkilled and everyone else just makes saves.

So DC have become a lot less scary and lot more overpriced...


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

hold on, are you telling me that Rends will be assigned as per usual wounds, along with other attacks? If thats the case, there will be screams of bloody murder from anyone with a rending troop (BA, Stealers and Harlies). I can't believe that would be the way, otherwise you could simply assign all power fist wounds onto a single model! 

I think what you'll find is that they can assign different types of wounds onto different models, for instance all rending wounds are assigned, then all normal wounds on unwounded models, then wrap around. anything else would be sheer madness! I think I'll have to ask about this...


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

From what I understand, hits scored on the same initiative are all assigned together, subject to wrap around, *before* saving throws. So if you have enough normal hits to pad it out, you can lump multiple rending wounds onto the same model.

The same could be said for, say, a veteran sarge with a Power Weapon. If he strikes on the same I as his men, then the enemy can use those normal attacks to space out the power weapon hits so that they all hit the same model.

Powerfists are different They strike at I1, so generally there's not going to be any normal attacks on that phase, so you won't have anything to pad it out so the powerfist attacks wrap around. Powerfists are still sound as a pound, but rending attacks and the single power weapon are fucked.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Wow, this would effect rending most and units with multiple power weapons somewhat (CSM chosen for instance)...but nothing else. That sucks balls, not that I use them much.

Sorry for getting off topic, but if all you say is true, then the best tactic to use against them is to wait until 5th ed. rapes them in the arse, and put their quietly crying emo-armoured selves out of their misery.


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

hehehehe. looks like it's goona suck to be death company in 5th


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## duffster624 (Apr 1, 2008)

one time one DC squad killed 18 of my ork boys  in one turn


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

duffster624 said:


> one time one DC squad killed 18 of my ork boys  in one turn


Don't worry, 5th ed is here, he'll make the big bad men go away.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

maddermax said:


> I think what you'll find is that they can assign different types of wounds onto different models, for instance all rending wounds are assigned, then all normal wounds on unwounded models, then wrap around. anything else would be sheer madness! I think I'll have to ask about this...


God, I hope so... otherwise that'd have to be a houserule to avoid spazzos.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

yeah special attacks should be done seperately. Otherwise it's crap


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## AngelofDeath (Jul 1, 2010)

Now that 5th is out, rending is no longer a part of the DC so that will make it a little easier for people to take them out... sad day for the crazy mofos


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## Drizzt_13 (May 22, 2009)

Thread Necromancy is generally discouraged, start a new thread but don't dig one up from two years ago.


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## AngelofDeath (Jul 1, 2010)

Hey, I'm sry I didn't even look at the date... My bad...


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