# Advices on starting Bretonnia :D



## dalaran (Sep 9, 2008)

Hi. I've always been a 40k player but I decided to switch to fantasy simply for the awesome bretonnian knights. So I'm working on collecting a knight-heavy army, with as many knights as possible along with supporting character (wizards and the like). I will be very open to getting men-at-arms and archers if they are REALLY necessary.

It's my first time. I've got all the rulebooks and such but I dont know where to start aside from getting a few boxes of knights. Can you guys please advise me on the effective builds for knights of the realms and grail knights cause these guys are my favourite. Also, I would love some help making an army list too. Thanks


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## DecrepitDragon (Aug 2, 2011)

Well, not to discourage you at all, but Brets are a hard list to make work these days. The new 8th Ed rulebook makes calvary charges a lot harder to pull off.

Now, having said that, not too long ago I had a game with an old friends Brets - he let me borrow the models. It was a 2000pt game and my list was centred around two large(12) lances of Knights of the Realm, with a slightly smaller unit of Grails(9).

They were supported (if thats the right word:grin by a large bowmen block of 20 and a tree-bucket, sorry, trebuchet. A lord, a couple of paladins and a damsel later and that was about 2000pts spent.

The grail knights will take on most average units easilly, and most harder units most of the time too. I had to use the combined charge of both realm units to break a horde however, and only some good dice saw me through relatively unscathed.

After that, the most important advice anyone can give you is - Make sure you charge!
Even if you strike after your enemy, the lance formation helps to minimse losses and maximise attacks back, so you need to charge to get that lance(weapon) +2s bonus.

Hope some of this is helpful mate. :thank_you:


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Trebuchets are your way forward; the army book might be all about knights, and they are both needed and pretty cool, but its the humble trebuchet that is the killer. 8th ed is all about big blocks of infantry, which cavalry don't do too well against... but a trebuchet hitting such a unit tears a huge hole in it. 1-2 direct hits on a unit will make almost any unit weak enough to be broken by your lance charging.

You have 2 problems in general: both from big infantry blocks. If someone takes a hoard (10 wide) they get massive amounts of attacks, but if you win combat they'll likely break. If someone takes a huge number of ranks they'll be stubborn from now until eternity, but you should easily win every round.
For the first type its better if you flank charge (hard to do, but devastating) or wait for them to be weakened by shooting/magic. The second is very hard for brets to beat... but it'll be very hard for teh opponent to beat you as well; try to take out the enemy general and BSB while pummelling these units with shooting, then charge in and try to survive enough rounds to finally break them (in this case flank charges are fine, but not massively beneficial). If the general/BSB are in one of these units try to shoot it first, then take out their characters on charge.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> Trebuchets are your way forward; the army book might be all about knights, and they are both needed and pretty cool, but its the humble trebuchet that is the killer. 8th ed is all about big blocks of infantry, which cavalry don't do too well against... but a trebuchet hitting such a unit tears a huge hole in it. 1-2 direct hits on a unit will make almost any unit weak enough to be broken by your lance charging.


This. Trebuchets are critical to success for a Bretonnian army, that and a Heroic Killing Blow General, potentially with Gauntlet of the Duel. He allows you to cut the head off your opponents army effectively. 




> You have 2 problems in general: both from big infantry blocks. If someone takes a hoard (10 wide) they get massive amounts of attacks, but if you win combat they'll likely break. If someone takes a huge number of ranks they'll be stubborn from now until eternity, but you should easily win every round.
> For the first type its better if you flank charge (hard to do, but devastating) or wait for them to be weakened by shooting/magic. The second is very hard for brets to beat... but it'll be very hard for teh opponent to beat you as well; try to take out the enemy general and BSB while pummelling these units with shooting, then charge in and try to survive enough rounds to finally break them (in this case flank charges are fine, but not massively beneficial). If the general/BSB are in one of these units try to shoot it first, then take out their characters on charge.


The only problem I have with this is you won't actually win combat after the first round against pretty much any infantry in the game. The issue comes from the fact that the Lance can only be used in the first round of combat, if you charge. After that you have to choose between Ranks and Attacks, you can stay in the Lance and get some ranks but only 6-7 attacks or spread out and have maybe 1 rank but 10-11 attacks. Those attacks a WS4 S3 so nothing to write home about. Any Halbard infantry will grind you down pretty quickly. I find in general if you get stuck in combat you are losing combat every turn so make sure you have your Gleaming Pennants and BSB on hand.


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## dalaran (Sep 9, 2008)

Well but what's the fun in that then?  We collect Bretonnia because of the knights in shining armor. Who ever does that for trebuchets or men-at-arms? If I want big guns and mass infantry I could always go Empire. 

If the lance does not work anymore, should I have a lot of questing knights then? They are S6 now. I simply don't wanna spend lots of cash on models and units that I don't like.


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

If you want to play a fluffy army that you like the look of, by all means do so! It is a rewarding moment when you look at your army and it is exactly what you imagined when you started. If you want to play and win tournements on a regular basis then take their advice but if you don't like your army at the end of the day then the hobby was not worth it.


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## Xela (Dec 22, 2010)

I play Brets fluffwise along with my buddies and they're incredibly fun to use that way. I don't play competatively though so...


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I would just throw a couple of trebs into a 2k army and then go for big blocks of knights... it isn't going to win much, but it should be fun. Only thing is your knights need to wander around a bit (polish their armour?) while you let the trbs weaken the enemy... then CHHHAARRGGGGEEEE!!!!!!

I think you'll have more fun then just a basic bret knight list. When I've seen it played locally it looks great charging foward... hits the enemy, then stays there until it eventually breaks.
Last game I saw brets play their best unit died to zombies.... then again the VC player had set up behind a haunted mansion, which is anathema to brets.


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## Saulot (May 25, 2011)

dalaran said:


> Well but what's the fun in that then?  We collect Bretonnia because of the knights in shining armor. Who ever does that for trebuchets or men-at-arms? If I want big guns and mass infantry I could always go Empire.


This isn't really that big a deal. Why? *Trebuchets are cheap*! You can have two of them in a 2k game and still have room for 3 lances of Knights (plus a squad of Pegasus Knights, a solid block of Men at Arms and two or more small units of Bowmen) or 5 or more lances if you wanna go with an all-knight list. 

I'm working towards the first build myself.. I have everything decided on, except for the Treb and Grail Knight ratio: 2-Trebs and 5-Grails vs. 1-Treb and 8-Grails.

Just go for it. Brets really are purrty on the tabletop. :blush:


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## dalaran (Sep 9, 2008)

I have my first box of knights today. The models are EPIC and possibly the most reasonably priced GW has ever made. $35 for 8 knights and horses or 10 space marines? The former please.

I guess I'll start with the 8 knights I have and the battalion box. That would give me 16 knights models (I have great weapons to make questing knights if need be), 1 peg knight (may use as lord), 20 footman and 16 bowmen.

I have absolutely no idea on how a bret army should look these days and I know they been nerfed hard with 8th ed. Everyone says trebuchet so I'll try to get 1 of them. For now. 

Is longbowmen good? They are pretty cheap money wise but BS3 with S3 weapon?....

With that said, can any of you veteran craft me a list? If not I would really appreciate an effective build for a lord(virtue and equipment) and what battle standard to use (maybe banner of the lady to cancel ranks)

Thanks a lot for your help


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I can craft you list, but I cannot promise it would be good. What points value do you guys play?


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I've been thinking about what you have and written this. 

Lords
Bretonnian Lord 
- Royal Pegasus
- Charmed Shield
- Gauntlet of the Duel
- Heartwood Lance
- Virtue of Heroism

Normally I wouldn't have this guy on a peg, but you suggested it so why not. He's on 3+/5++ if you pray and get to reroll all his wounds which is great when you have Heroic Killing Blow. He can do a lot of damage to non-tooled up characters, like that bunker your opponents wizard is hiding in. Charge in Challenge and kill the Unit champion, next round challenge the next character etc. You will probably lose these combats but you're LD9 so you'll probably stick around. 

Heroes

Damsel
- Lore of Beasts
- Level 2 Wizard
- Dispel Scroll

The Lore of beasts is great for buffing your Knights, it's even easy to cast on them because of the Lore Trait. Dropping a Wyssans Wildform on a horde or Halbardiers suddenly makes them very dangerous. 

Paladin
- BSB
- Dragonhelm
- Warhorse
- Virtue of Empathy

He's a mandatory choice, this guy is a basic BSB, good armour save and Virtue of Empathy to give you the 12" radius on your LD8 for your Men at Arms. 

Core

8 Knights of the Realm
- Full Command

Your Paladin joins this unit, the idea being you're trying to get into the flanks of anything your Men at Arms manage to hold up, they'll disrupt your opponent and hopefully make you win the combat.

39 Men at Arms
- Halbards
- Full Command

This is your unit which tries to hold your opponent up, they're pretty terrible but at S4 can hurt anyone if they manage to hit. 

Rare

Field Trebuchet 

A key unit in your arsenal, use it to make your opponent come at you quickly and hopfully give you the counter charge with your knights.

That's 1000 points of Bretonnians there.


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## dalaran (Sep 9, 2008)

Wow, that's an extremely generous reply Aramoro  Thank you so much! I now have plenty of choices on building up my army list now  I'll wait till I get the models and start playing around with these ideas 

What do you think about questing knights? The models are cool and now they are S6 all-around.

Again, thanks so much


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I tend to think Questing Knights are pretty reasonable. They sacrifice the 2+ save for a 3+ one to be more consistent in combat. I cannot say i've ever had a massive amount of success with them though. I think a unit of 9 trying to get some cheeky flanks would be good as even more than your other knights you have to avoid getting hit back a lot. 

It's 279 points for a unit of 9, which in lance gives you 2 ranks and gives you 9 S6 attacks in that first round of combat. It sounds ok but I just never have the points spare for them sadly. I usually freak out and buy Grail Knights instead.


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## dalaran (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm negotiating a deal with a friend that would give me 21 more knights to play with. In the next couple of weeks I might have enough cash to get 32 peasant bowmen too. Also I'm buying the bret lord with lance and horse model and the paladin BSB  and 2 damsels like you said 

I have a few questions just for the lords and heroes section.

-The peg lord like above is great for dueling and taking out monsters I suppose. I think I can field him on a barded warhorse to go with knight too. Is there any configuration out there that would allow him to be a rank-and-file butcher while still maintaining some capabilities in dueling? I want him to be able to kill as many as possible to help out the knights in their charge. 

-For the paladin, is there a magic banner that would help the knights unit with their charge? I plan to field the lord with paladin in a unit of 10 knights as the hammer of the army. I need them to hit as hard as possible.

-How do I protect the damsels? They have to go to the first rank, also means they will be chewed up will close combat. However, leaving them alone by themselves leave them vulnerable to missile, flanker, character hunter and simply not able to keep pace with the army.


-In case I do get archers, I guess I just field them with brazier and dont bother with command?

Thanks guys


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

dalaran said:


> I'm negotiating a deal with a friend that would give me 21 more knights to play with. In the next couple of weeks I might have enough cash to get 32 peasant bowmen too. Also I'm buying the bret lord with lance and horse model and the paladin BSB  and 2 damsels like you said


A lot of people like peasant bowmen, I have to say i've never had any success with them, more Men at Arms never go amiss though.




> -The peg lord like above is great for dueling and taking out monsters I suppose. I think I can field him on a barded warhorse to go with knight too. Is there any configuration out there that would allow him to be a rank-and-file butcher while still maintaining some capabilities in dueling? I want him to be able to kill as many as possible to help out the knights in their charge.


I always field that Lord in a unit of Knights, if you want him to be a bit better at hurting Rank and File you could try The Sword of Swift Slaying instead of the Heartwood Lance, It gives you Always Strikes First and with his I6 that means rerolls to hit against most infantry. 




> -For the paladin, is there a magic banner that would help the knights unit with their charge? I plan to field the lord with paladin in a unit of 10 knights as the hammer of the army. I need them to hit as hard as possible.


You want to be able to give your BSB some magic armour, which means no magical standard sadly. But then the unit can take one, A War Banner on the KotR can help win combat but there's nothing that will out and out make them combat monsters. You could try Banner of the Lady on your BSB that will definitely help you win against those Static combat resolution blocks of infantry. 




> -How do I protect the damsels? They have to go to the first rank, also means they will be chewed up will close combat. However, leaving them alone by themselves leave them vulnerable to missile, flanker, character hunter and simply not able to keep pace with the army.


They are really hard to protect in general, they're good in Knight units as they canot be hit but you have to make sure you don't miscast. In infantry blocks they can walk with them and then leave the turn before it get hairy to stand behind the unit, sheltered from most missile fire by the combat. 



> -In case I do get archers, I guess I just field them with brazier and dont bother with command?


pretty much exactly that.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

A lot of folks like to rip on Brettonians. The thing that changed in 8th is the playstyle of the army, not the quality of the army. 

You need Men at Arms. Period. A lot of folks are lukewarm about having to bring a ton of the great unwashed peasants, but... that's 8th. They're inexpensive and you can form a pretty solid battle line out of archers. If you have a couple units of 40 archers, it's actually fairly dangerous for an enemy to charge. 

Basically, you're going to end up using Men at Arms as a meat grinder unit, and your knights will maneuver around to charge the flanks of whatever charges the Men at Arms. You can support them with the trebuchets and make sure that whatever gets into the fight with the men at arms is manageable for the knights. So you're after moderate-sized units of Knights of the Realm lead by Paladins or Lords, bigass units of Men at Arms (archers are ideal for Stand and Shoot so they actually do a bunch of hits before they die horribly), and a couple Damsels to buff the Knights. 

I really like Questing Knights this edition-- Great Weapons were actually awful in the past on cavalry, but this time around, they're no different than how they are on infantry. Brettonians have strictly average initiative and the +2 strength every round of combat seems a fair bit better than +2 only on the charge, and Questing Knights are just strictly better profile-wise than Knights of the Realm otherwise on top of that. I'd seriously consider filling out your core requirements with your required unit of Knights of the Realm and a bunch of Men at Arms, and plan on dropping around 30% of your points on Special units.


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## 13713 (Jan 26, 2011)

I didn't want to create another thread just to ask about the Brets. I have the models from one of the starting boxes I purchased to get into fantasy ages ago and never took the plunge. How odd is it to field older Bret models with newer purchased models to flesh out and make a base army? Anyone ever see many Bret players at their local shops or are we a strange and almost extinct group?


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

Plenty of people use older models in their armies. As long as it looks similar (and is GW if your in one of their stores) no one will complain. Only seen one bret player before out of three stores I have been in so yes I think they are fairly rare. But that's no reason for you not to play them!


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## Saulot (May 25, 2011)

dalaran said:


> -How do I protect the damsels? They have to go to the first rank, also means they will be chewed up will close combat. However, leaving them alone by themselves leave them vulnerable to missile, flanker, character hunter and simply not able to keep pace with the army.


Damsels actually go on the second rank, surrounded by Knights. This is a great position since it protects them from close combat, and with their special rules, still have LoS for casting magic missile. 




13713 said:


> How odd is it to field older Bret models with newer purchased models to flesh out and make a base army?


I'm doing this myself. I have the old 5th ed starter box and just recently bought the new batallion box. It doesn't look too odd, but older horses are smaller than the newer ones, so you can't really switch parts around.


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## Champion Alaric (Feb 17, 2011)

Again there is no point in making another Bret thread for more questions:

1. What is a good build for the damsels? Is the named character any good? She is 545 points and all, is she really worth that?

2. Is 3 Trebuchets overkill? I played sisters so 3 Exorcists was always the way to go so I am wondering if I should carry that over.


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## Saulot (May 25, 2011)

Champion Alaric:

1. Popular builds for Prophetess/Damsels include: 
Lvl4 Life on Warhorse with Crown of Command and/or Earthing Rod - use augment spells to boost your units, while being protected by Throne of Vines and Earthing Rod. Crown of Command is there to help make the unit stay in combat if they fail to overrun enemies.

Lvl1 Beast on foot with your Men-at-Arms with Prayer Icon of Quenelles - use signature spell to boost your (anvil) unit, and give them 5+ / 6+ ward save. 

I have no experience with the Fey Enchantress, so I cannot really comment.. She just seems a little expensive for me.

2. Trebuchets are really worth their points. However, 2 is the maximum number an army can take below 3,000pts. (with 4 as the maximum for armies above 3,000pts.) due to the Duplicate Choices rule (BRB, pg. 135). I think the real reason why some people do not max out this choice is for fluff reasons (I'm guilty of this myself). 

Cheers!


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## jennylarp (Oct 20, 2011)

Would you like to share the picture i wanna see it before i will buy one for my son.


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