# Honour Duels - Space Wolves vs Dark Angels



## CommanderAnthor (Sep 28, 2008)

Ok this topic is about Honour Duels between Space Wolves and Dark Angels.

General conversation such as

Who would win and why?

Why you support who you say?

Amazed that the noble knight like beat the vicious wolf beast?

For those of you who don't know what i'm talking about this refrains to the duel between Leman Russ and Lion'El Johnson primarches of the Space Wolves, and Dark angels.
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The Lion and the Wolf
At some point during The Great Crusade the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves were assaulting a planet that had not given in to The Imperium's demands. The leader of the rebels had insulted Leman Russ by naming him "The Emperor's Lapdog". Leman Russ and his Space Wolves planned to attack for this blemish on their honor. While they were busy planning, The Dark Angels took the fight to the capital and The Lion himself killed their leader. Russ found The Lion with the dead leader at his feet and immediately attacked his brother Primarch. They fought for many hours, it ended when The Lion threw Russ through a table, when Russ got up he started laughing at the foolishness of their quarrel. The Lion, incensed that his brother appeared to be mocking him hit him square in the jaw, knocking Russ out cold. Russ awakened many hours later to find that Lion El'Jonson and his Dark Angels had left the planet. Honor Duels are still fought between members of The Space Wolves and The Dark Angels. 
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http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lion_El'Jonson

Honor duels are held between the chapters for their primarches honors

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Now I personally think now a days a space wolve would lose an honor duel because a dark angel seems more aware in combat while a space wolve is more charge straight up and rip apart lol

I'm not amazed though that lion el' johnson beat leman russ maybe it was a flaw because leman russ fought out of anger instead of tactics like lion el did and he maintained the suitation and got him with a punch knock out. 

And if anyone thinks its cause their younger growing up they basically grew up the same Lion in the jungle never spoke first 10 years of his life and fended for himself and leman russ same thing but in frost world and grew up with wolves.


Carry on fellow heresy members!


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

well the last marine to win a honour duel was ragnar blackmane and he is a space wolf so your theory on the DA always winning is abit flawed. but then its down to the individual really, the wolf has alot of cunning and guile and they cant be accused of just being a total rabid berserker. yes they are big space pissheads but when you need a job doing right you can count of a space wolf. 
the DA however are equally capable warriors and can be cunning and deceptive also so it just bores down to the warrior in the duel and how well they are able to fight against a equally capable warrior.

but what you said and about the lion winning, it wasnt like he beat him in a straight up fight. those two could have gone on for days maybe weeks but the lion got the sneaky blow in when russ was not expecting it really.
but i do think that they made friend after and always had utmost respect for each other. i think in future HH novels it will be the lion that comes to russ's aid when they mention 'help from a unexpected quarter' during the heresy when the wolves are doing hit and run attacks on one of the traitor legions (cant remember with one). i think those two have much in common and while the lion is abit distant from his brothers he still actually likes russ because he has great honour as a warrior.


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## Gakmesideways (Aug 16, 2008)

Unknown Primarch said:


> but i do think that they made friend after and always had utmost respect for each other.



Call me crazy, but as a Dark Angel's player, I'm pretty damn sure my Primarch and Russ _never_ made friends and played nice afterwards.

Not sure where you got that.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Aye - Russ hates the Dark Angels, hence why the Space Wolves hit the Dark Angels easier, and vice versa.

I believe that Russ would have won. IIRC, he was the only Primarch to beat Horus in a match. Angron and Russ were similar to each other, and had respect for each other, while Jaghatai Khan and Russ were true friends.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Gakmesideways said:


> Call me crazy, but as a Dark Angel's player, I'm pretty damn sure my Primarch and Russ _never_ made friends and played nice afterwards.
> 
> Not sure where you got that.


Yeah, I agree. Making friends would ruin the whole fluff between the chapters.

I have to say this is a pretty pointless thread. You can't say that a SW or DA will always win a duel against the other, it's down to the individuals who fight it. A Wolf Lord would hand a standard DA his ass on a plate, an Interrogater Chaplain would do the same to a Blood Claw.

While their chapters will have thought them different skill sets, it's down to the individuals to implement them and use their natural talent. It doesn't matter what chapter a marine is or how good he is, he probably has an equal in any other chapter.


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## CommanderAnthor (Sep 28, 2008)

Khorne's Fist said:


> Yeah, I agree. Making friends would ruin the whole fluff between the chapters.
> 
> I have to say this is a pretty pointless thread. You can't say that a SW or DA will always win a duel against the other, it's down to the individuals who fight it. A Wolf Lord would hand a standard DA his ass on a plate, an Interrogater Chaplain would do the same to a Blood Claw.
> 
> While their chapters will have thought them different skill sets, it's down to the individuals to implement them and use their natural talent. It doesn't matter what chapter a marine is or how good he is, he probably has an equal in any other chapter.


If primarches weren't as equally powered I don't think their men will be someone has to be stronger.

Other then that what others have said I don't think you'd make friends after your primarch was socked in the face by the other chapters primarch and never hugged over it again lol


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

CommanderAnthor said:


> I'm not amazed though that lion el' johnson beat leman russ maybe it was a flaw because leman russ fought out of anger instead of tactics like lion el did and he maintained the suitation and got him with a punch knock out.


or maybe its because the Lion cheated?, since leman russ was laughing at how foolish they were both acting, and how this fight wasn't going to solve any problems, and then the Lion, who though russ was laughing at him because of him being small minded, punches him when he isn't ready.

not really very tactical

plus personally I'd think a wolf would win more times than an angel, they grow up on a planet far more perilous than a floating rock, actually fighting instead of going around looking for guys in black armor that look a little shifty


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## Ste (Aug 28, 2008)

at the end of the day i would beat any primarch hands down in CQC lol XD

Sorry had a few whiskies. It does depend on the warrior though like now-a-days a SAS member say both of the private ranking, one could be better than the other in close combat, it really depends on the fighter and how gets the first blow etc


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

CommanderAnthor said:


> If primarches weren't as equally powered I don't think their men will be someone has to be stronger.


Who says the primarchs weren't equally powered? They were all pretty much equal, just their strengths lay in different areas. If you follow your logic, it would have to be the SW who wins a duel every time, since they specialise in hand to hand combat because Russ was the strongest Primarch in CC (No need to say Angron was, he needed drugs to get him there). As was said previously, Jonsen only knocked him out because he sucker punched him.


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## Rafen (Oct 21, 2008)

Space wolves thats it done then they can go and have a victory drink


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## Unknown Soldier (Oct 24, 2008)

How are these duels conducted? Fists, swords, power weapons?

If there aren't any clearly defined rules, then my money's on the Grotz with the Tankbusta.

Besides the only way to decide which SM chapter is the best is to have an annual Ratling Toss. (Preferably off the roof of the Imperial Palace).

In closing - if you play Dark Angels, then they would always win and if you play Space Wovles, then they would always win. My Dad's bigger then your Dad, etc.


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## LeeHarvey (Jul 25, 2008)

I actually like the contention between the two chapters. The "kiss and make up" idea doesn't hold much water in a Far Future as Grim and Dark as 40k is supposed to be.


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## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

it would really depend on skill and what weapons they are useing. but i think a space wolf would have an advantage in a fist fight due to the fact he would have a slight advantage in close combat


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## Jesseleeg (Dec 7, 2020)

Its really obnoxious how Space wolf fans always say Lion El Johnson cheated. They were in the middle of a fight. Lion El Johnson finished the fight. Lets pretend it was a sucker punch though, didn't the fight begin with Russ throwing the first sucker punch? Yes it most certainly did. Lion was able to take the punch and dish one out, Russ was not. Russ was the emperors executioner according to the lore, but the lore also states the Lion was the emperors Exterminator because of the secret arsenal the Emperor had entrusted to the first legions Dreadwing. The lore states Russ was the emperors warning, while the Lion was who was sent if the warning was taken lightly. We always speculated that Russ eliminated two legions, but it easily could have been the first Legion which is why his brothers were so nervous around him including Horus when the Lion boarded Horus's flag ship to reprimand Luther and he flat out told Horus the dark angels were not his to command. Horus feared the Lion. Roboute was Jealous of the Lion. The lion was also prepared to destroy the ultramarines quickly and completely if Roboute had turmed traitor when the Lion went to Ultramar. The lion didnt need help to destroy a leguon from sisters of the battle like Russ.


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