# DE: Harlequins vs Incubi



## eae (Jan 3, 2011)

Hi all,

Why does everyone say Incubi are superior to Harlequins as an Elite slot choice? They usually say "you can get Incubi with Raider for that much points", but actually no, you can't. A Harlequin with a Kiss costs exactly as much as an Incubus does, 22 points each. I've ran 6 harlies with kisses and 6 incubi through the calculator against sm tactical squad of 9, and harlies scored 1.778 models killed (at I:6) against Incubi 1.333 at I:5.

So why do people say Incubi are superior?

Thanks in advance for any info on this question.


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## TomG (Oct 11, 2010)

I just ran it through and it said the Incubi are taking out 4 marines, remember they get +1S and they're also power weapons
So without a Klaivex that's 18 on the charge, S4 power weapon attacks hitting most on 3's at WS5
They also have a 3 up armour save.
Harlequins will get about 24 hits on the charge but no power weapons apart from maybe the troupe master wounding on maybe 5s and rending on 6s

In my opinion I find Incubi the better option, harder hitting power, okay no 5+invul but I'd still like the 3+, combined with a claivex and Onslaught they pack one hell of a punch.


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## Mathai (Sep 1, 2010)

Remember that Harlequins have furious charge. (I think thats what its called. I never can remember what its called, just what it does) So both of them get the same Strength on their attacks initially, with the Harleys able to fall back afterwards.

I play regular Eldar, so I dont know too much about Incubi beyond their rules. But I love playing my Harlequins, and know a fair deal aout them. I gotta say that without a shadowseer, Harlequins are not as potent as Incubi, but with one they have alot better precision in their attacks. But as the Shadowseer costs so much to obtain, that may contribute to the idea that Incubus choices are better. If I played Dark Eldar, I would have to choose Incubus simply because its the only thing in their army that has a 3+ armor save. But beyond that I agree with you eae, neither is all together 'better' than the other when you consider all the extra rules Harleys have to make them shine.


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Because Incubi are clearly so much better.

Incubi get assault transports, power weapons, power armor, a base strength increase rather than furious charge and power from pain.

Harlies are... the same unit that was decent-ish in 4th edition for Eldar. They copied and pasted the unit entry over from the eldar dex instead of updating them to be good, but the rest of the DE dex moved on.


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## Ghost792 (Jan 6, 2010)

Incubi are great. Harlies are only really good on the charge, whereas the Incubi get their bonuses all the time. Plus you can take smaller units of them without seriously affecting their survivability as unit, as well as getting access to a Venom. Plus you can take a unit of 4 plus Haemonculus in a Venom and now you have FNP as well.


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## Jackinator (Nov 18, 2008)

Ghost792 said:


> Plus you can take a unit of 4 plus Haemonculus in a Venom and now you have FNP as well.


And once you kill a unit, not massively hard if you choose carefully, those Incubi now have furious charge, strength 5 initiative 6 power weapons on the charge. If you get a bigger unit and stick them with an Archon this just becomes easier, use them to go Hero hunting and once you've killed the character and his squad you have fnp, furious charge incubi with a strength 6, insta-killing lunatic running around (assuming the archon has huskblade and soul trap).

Anyway, there must be something up with your maths cause I just ran a similar problem through and the Incubi come out on top, they guarantee ignore the save and are more likely to survive being hit back, therefore they do more damage, the extra I is nice but only really against stealers and I can get the far cheaper, and more effective Wyches to fulfill that role. There is not much point in taking Harlequins except for rending and fluff purposes.


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## eae (Jan 3, 2011)

Um, yep, I think I forgot about the power weapons. And the furious charge.

So now both groups do 18 attacks with S4 on charge, that's base 2 attacks +1 for assault (TomG, where did you get 24 attacks on 6 Harlies?), with the same WS 5, Incubi got power weapons, Harlies got rending. Incubi kill 6 models, Harlies kill 3.333 models.

Ok, now I get it.

So, Harlies are good in rare conditions like moving & assaulting through difficult terrains & covers, and Incubi just plain kill everything in sight. Harlies might be good with the Shadowseer to provide cover for some ranged groups or babysit troups scoring an objective. Am I missing something again?


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Harlies get 2 base attacks, 1 for weapons and 1 for the charge.


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## eae (Jan 3, 2011)

You mean they get 2 additional attacks? Aren't the weapons attacks already included in their profile?


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## Jackinator (Nov 18, 2008)

No, the additional attacks from two close combat weapons are not included in their profile, you have to add them on yourself.

To be honest I wouldn't even use the Harlies for babysitting, it's and elite slot that could be better used for more Incubi or Trueborn.


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## TomG (Oct 11, 2010)

Thanks Cyklown and Jackinator for clearing up the attack info for me.
But yeah I'm still sticking with Incubi.
Harlies rely far too much on that first charge to take down an enemy unit, whilst Incubi just get stuck in, ok they might not have an invul save but that's where an Archon with a shadow field comes in!:biggrin:
And they will almost always take down the unit they're engaging, then benefit from PTP.

You should do the combat calculator for Incubi and Harlequins to see the overall winner:laugh:


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

I think everyone is aware who the overall winner would be anyway.

Harlies can't cut it in Codex Eldar against Striking Scorpions and Howling banshees.

So why would they stand a logical chance against a unit that combines the strength and armour of Scorpions with the Power weapons of the Banshees?

The only thing Harlies have over the Incubi is fusion pistols. And in an army that runs frequent Lance weaponry....it's hardly a massive benefit.


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## eae (Jan 3, 2011)

Ok, the one more thing that I missed is Harlies having pistols, so they can shoot before assaulting (which Incubi can't do). According to the calculator, 6 Harlies shooting in SM tactical squad will kill 0.667 marines, so it's 5.111 total killed in shoot+assault against plain 6 killed by Incubi. Yes, that only happens on the 1st round of combat, so Incubi still seem a plainly better choice. I'm deliberately avoiding talk on upgrades (fusion pistols, shadowseers, Klaivexes, etc.) to keep the points match clear.

I think I'll still try to run calc with different upgrades matching in points to see if fusion pistols add anything to the equation.


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

May i point out that incubi have Power From Pain? They tear one unit to ribbons and suddenly they a 4+ FNP along with the 3+ Armour.

Add another to that and they have furious charge? Its extremely easy for incubi to pick these up as well! Stick a Haemonculus in the unit HEY PRESTO! they have 1 already! 

Incubi all the way tbh!


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

It isn't a fair contest. Even with pistols Harlies are only getting a small handful of wounds in against anything, they DO fair better against MC's but that is really about it. 

A squad of Incubi can expect to kill an MEQ per Incubi in the squad on the charge. That's pretty impressive. You can take upgrades to give the Klaivex a neat little Flamer attack that can kill a couple marines again, though it is not as neat as his other upgrades. Some upgrades can be considered, since those Harlies will be needing a Shadowseer as well.

Finally, take into account that if you shoot, you are not Fleeting. I rather expect that the Harlies will need to be fleeting to quickly close the gap they kept for veil of tears.


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Exactly. Harlies are slower and need to close suddenly. Incubi are tougher and get transports.

Incubi also fare considerably better if they win their combat too fast. Veil of tears is nice, but you're still open to rapid-firing if you stomp too much face. 3+ FNP dudes care a lot less about 8 bolters hitting rapid fire.

And hey, poison works better against MCs than rending anyways aside from 2+ no invulnerable save models.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

I would rather play a Soul-sucking Dark Elf with a "pleasure from torture" disorder than Bozo the clown any day.

I mean really? Compare the two
Insanely Dark Malicious Elf









Elf that has gone round the bend 








pew! pew!


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