# Kolinsky Sable brushes, which size do I need?



## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm not that happy with my Citadel fine detail brush and I'm thinking about getting a Kolinsky Sable brush to replace it but I'm not sure which size I need. And just for the record, which size would replace the standard Citadel brush?

Here are the brushes: http://www.firestormgames.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=270489

Also, how much of an improvement would they be? The Citadel fine detail isn't holding its point after 2 models, which is pretty pants IMO.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

I love my sable brushes, period. They will last you a good long time if you care for them properly. I would suggest getting a size 2 as it would be a normal size brush, but personally I own a 3/0, 0, 1, & 2. You wont be disappointed. 

I would suggest though that if you are going to get one (or two, or three) that you go with the Windsor & Newton Series 7. You will spend a bit more at the outset but they will last you forever and are really the Cadilliac of paint brushes.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

This may be a stupid question but here goes, what's the difference between the Citadel brushes and the ones I linked? They both use kolinsky sable hair?


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

Here is a great article about the basics of brushes. Unfortunately I don't know all the techinical stuff, but GW brushes use a cheaper grade of bristles it think. that is why you get more visible brush strokes and the brushes don't hold a tip as well.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

I'll look into it, cheers. For me I like my standard brush, wash brush and dry brush, it's just the fine detail brush that sucks.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

when you say it wont hold a point whats happening?


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

It's splitting at the end, so it's like having 2 tips. I've barely even used it, I've only painted 2 models and it's only used for eyes and such, plus I always clean it properly after use.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

MrHuk said:


> It's splitting at the end, so it's like having 2 tips. I've barely even used it, I've only painted 2 models and it's only used for eyes and such, plus I always clean it properly after use.


how do you clean it?


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

I swirl it around in the cup, wipe it off, then I take it to the sink and run it under the cold tap, if it's really dirty I'll use a little liquid hand soap and rub it between my fingers gently.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

detail brushes suffer from paint drying in the ferule (the metal tube) which causes the split of the hairs, it happens to detail brushes the most because the hairs are shorter,so paint is more likely to be drawn up in the ferule and b because the smaller the amount of paint the quicker it dries, buying another manufactures detail brush wont change that. I have brought brushes like this back by soaking the bristles in thinners for a few moments and they cleaning them with soap again, rinse and repeat. also when you clean the brush you should reform the point before you store it.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

Yeah I always reform the point before putting it back in the plastic tube.


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## arumichic (May 14, 2011)

It really helps if you get some Master's brand Brush Cleaner and and Conditioner, though it does help to try not to get paint up to the base of the bristles and into the metal tube. You can also leave the brush cleaner stuff in after you reform the point so that it will be more likely to stay that way.

I also personally have Windsor and Newton Series 7 sizes 2, 1, 0, 2/0 and they're amazing brushes. There's not much difference between a 2/0 and a 0, so if you want really fine detail, get a 3/0 and a 0 (I do understand that this is a personal preference as well). 
Hope this helps.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm ready to pull the trigger on a Winsor Series 7 brush, which size would be best for a "go to" brush, something that does it all and would replace my GW standard brush? Also, miniature or regular? I would have thought miniature but some people are saying the regular brushes are better.


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## arumichic (May 14, 2011)

I have the miniature set of the Winsor and Newton series 7 and the only thing different is that the bristles are shorter than normal brushes which can help with better control of the brush. I personally like them since the tips will go where you want it to go a lot better than if you would have a longer brush. But that's also personal preference. I will be trying out the regular brushes the next time I order brushes.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm so torn, I really don't know which to get :/

EDIT:

Just how much longer are the bristles on the finest range compared to a standard GW brush? Is it going to be awkward to use?


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## arumichic (May 14, 2011)

Try one set this time and try the other set the next time. There really isn't that much of a difference and both sets will last you a long time as long as you take care of them.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

I'll order some 3 in 1 brush cleaner, restorer and preserver when I order the brush, I just need to decide on which brush to get. This really is it on the expense for now, I'm closing in on £200 spent in the last few weeks and I just can't stretch any further so I really need to make the right choice.


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## arumichic (May 14, 2011)

I didn't mean right now, but when you need new brushes like 6 months down the road, so just choose one set.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

The difference from what I have read on the internets is the mini ones have shorter bristles. They have finer control but do not hold as much paint. You can put more paint down in a single stroke with the normal ones. The mini ones you will probably have to pay more attention to getting paint into the ferrule risk because of the shorter bristles.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

Yeah, it is only the bristle length, the thing I'm worrying about is will it be weird to use a finest range brush when I'm used to GW standard which I'm guessing is much shorter.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Personally I say get a cheapo art store detail brush and get more practice painting in before you buy the good ones. I plan to eventually get some good ones but not until I know what sizes and style I like using to paint multiple mini's


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

Using cheap brushes will just piss me off and I'll end up quitting the hobby, so that's not the best option for me.


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## arumichic (May 14, 2011)

LOL. The best cheap brushes actually IMO, are the army painter brushes. Yes, they are like 2-4bucks a pop, but they're pretty good cheap brushes. The basecoating brush from the Army Painter is to this day, my most favorite brush ever, mainly because I'm so used to using it. I've been mainly using the miniature sable brushes for fine to very fine detail work and they are very nice, no more being angry at the brushes for mistakes.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

Well after my GW brush started to split today I nearly picked everything up and binned it, I was so angry LOL. 

Would a Series 7 #2 miniature work for 99% of stuff? I have a GW fine detail brush that's OK so I can use that for eyes, but I'm really looking for a brush that can do everything else.


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## arumichic (May 14, 2011)

Yes it would. Drannith used the #2 miniature brush I got for him for basically everything on this model I believe.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

A family member took pity on me and offered to pay for one of my brushes, so I can get two. Now, do I get a #1 and #2 or a #1 and #0 or #2 and #0.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

Ended up ordering the 0, 1 and 2 miniatures. Luckily I have a great family and they helped with the cost.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

So the brushes just came, is there a test I can do to see if I got a good brush? I've been reading the quality control is pretty bad and sometimes you get duff ones. The #1 brush has one hair slightly jutting out from the rest, is that normal or a reason to get a replacement?


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

you seem overly worried about brush quality, those points look fine, its the after care and how you use them that causes splits, if they are fine now and you look after them they will be fine, but get used to the fact that you will fuck them up and you will need to replace them at some point.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> you seem overly worried about brush quality, those points look fine, its the after care and how you use them that causes splits, if they are fine now and you look after them they will be fine, but get used to the fact that you will fuck them up and you will need to replace them at some point.


I'm completely paranoid after reading horror stories on the Internet. The one in the middle doesn't seem to have a good point like the other two though IMO.

As for aftercare, I bought this: 3 IN 1 ARTIST PAINT BRUSH CLEANER PRESERVER RESTORER: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics , if I use this after every painting session will that be enough?


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

Got the cleaner today and I'm not that impressed, I washed it several times in it and there's still plenty of paint on the brush, it's currently soaking so we'll see how it looks in a few hours.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

are you gonna pick up a detail brush ? 000 or smaller?


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> are you gonna pick up a detail brush ? 000 or smaller?


No, the 0 will do just fine IMO.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

It is completely normal for a hair to be stray on the brush, paint with it and if it does not get in line the you can always trim it (do NOT pluck), also as far as brush cleaners go the Masters Brush Cleaner is some of the best and most recommended on the market and for deep cleaning you can get some Winsor and Newton 3 in one brush cleaner. I have never used the miniature line but I have purchased quite a few of the normal series and I know I paint with a number 2 normally.


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## MrHuk (Jul 15, 2011)

I wouldn't recommend this brand of cleaner, it's been soaking for hours and the paint is still firmly on the bristles.


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