# What Scares You More: 3 Taloses or 3 Ravagers?



## ufoturtle081 (Feb 10, 2011)

You oppentant tells you he is playing Dark Eldar and you think of the usual Raiders flying towards you full of CC nasties such as Wyches and Incubi. But then you see his/her HS choices. Either 3 Taloses or 3 Ravagers. What I want to know is, with the army list you play most often, which would you hate to see more at the other end of the table: 3 Ravagers or 3 Taloses. Both are only about 300 points total, and both can be equiped to wreck infantry or armor. 

Of course the Taloses have to get up close to deal any real damage, but they do have toughness 7. The Ravagers can lay fire from afar, but they are only AV 11 and open-topped.

So which gives you goosebumps? Feel free to include why either of these units would give more trouble or what specific setups(wargear and such) would make you battle a lot harder.

And for those Archons out there who have tried both options: what have you had more success with?


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

I have to say, the Ravagers scare me the most. Tripple Dark Lance or Tripple Disintegrator Cannon is plain evil. Kills tanks and infantry alike


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

ravagers, armour 14 sluggish tanks don't like nimble skimmers fucking up my armour plating


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I'm not sure, both are pretty scary. I think the ravagers might be easier to destroy for my guard but they would take out most of my armor before that happened. On the other hand bringing down the talos' would be do-able but there would be precious little shooting directed at anything else. If i had first turn the ravagers might be the preferred one to face.


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## HiveMinder (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm gonna be the oddball and say that the Taloses would scare me more. Of course, I play 'nids, so the thought of anything with higher S and T than my MCs is no fun. Plus a 1/6 chance of Instant Death is less than thrilling, to put it mildly.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Depends which list I'm using. I tend to alternate between either full mechanized or jumpers. My mech list would struggle more with the Ravagers and the jump marines would hate the Talos far more.

Reasoning is the mech list has enough assault cannon shots to deal with Talos without lots of trouble, especially since Talos aren't very quick so I can just drive away to buy myself some extra time. Assault cannons don't have a great range though, so hitting Ravagers who'll usually be sitting about 36" away with night shields will be really hard if not impossible. On the other hand, the jumpers can easily Deep Strike close to Ravagers and pop them, but would struggle a lot against three T7 Monstrous Creatures.


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## ufoturtle081 (Feb 10, 2011)

Stella Cadente said:


> ravagers, armour 14 sluggish tanks don't like nimble skimmers fucking up my armour plating


Your anger's intensity is equal to the joy I have gotten by destroying those AV 14 Land Raiders. Too bad there is just not that much AV 14 out there. And there was one time I played a guy with 2 Black Templars Land Raiders; needless to say my Lances were useless.


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## ufoturtle081 (Feb 10, 2011)

HiveMinder said:


> I'm gonna be the oddball and say that the Taloses would scare me more. Of course, I play 'nids, so the thought of anything with higher S and T than my MCs is no fun. Plus a 1/6 chance of Instant Death is less than thrilling, to put it mildly.


I havent tried Taloes vs Nids but I know 9 Dark Lances from 3 Ravagers is just unfair. I can take out a monsterous per turn. 3 Taloses does seem fun though; talk about clash of the Titins!


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

Taloses, it was something to do with some wargear that ment the dark elder lord could deep strike them into play directly where he was, fucking nightmare.

but this was back in 2004 so they might not be as scary now.


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## ufoturtle081 (Feb 10, 2011)

shaantitus said:


> I'm not sure, both are pretty scary. I think the ravagers might be easier to destroy for my guard but they would take out most of my armor before that happened. On the other hand bringing down the talos' would be do-able but there would be precious little shooting directed at anything else. If i had first turn the ravagers might be the preferred one to face.


In my few games with Mech Guard, Ravagers never did so well. A line of Chimeras covering eachothers side armor so that all that can be shot at is AV 12 front armor really pisses off guys weilding Lance weapons. 

Taloses could be fun vs all that armor. I think that they have a better chance of tanking down tanks, it's just the problem of getting them there.


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## ufoturtle081 (Feb 10, 2011)

Hooobit said:


> Taloses, it was something to do with some wargear that ment the dark elder lord could deep strike them into play directly where he was, fucking nightmare.
> 
> but this was back in 2004 so they might not be as scary now.


I did not play back then, but I do have a copy of the first codex and I do not remember an item like that in it. Are you talking about the old version of the webway portal???


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## Xela (Dec 22, 2010)

If i have the first turn, the ravagers don't scare me TOO much, more the taloses then


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## DrinCalhar (Jul 10, 2010)

3 Ravagers


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

ufoturtle081 said:


> by destroying those AV 14 Land Raiders


land raiders?...ewwwwwwwwww no friggin way blow those pieces of crap up all you want, I don't care about those dull things


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Depends if taloses can pop out of the webway portal. If so then I fear 3 of them more. If not then definitely the ravagers.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Right for starters. Plural of Talos is Taloi. I hate grammer nazi-ing but honestly.

3 Ravagers is still horrendously cheap for the amount of rape they bring. 3 Taloi are one sided and a little boring. That's the way it was before, that's the way it is now.


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## VaeVictis99 (Aug 31, 2010)

3 Taloi. Annoying little things when they reach you. Ravagers I've had some success with, I hate the invuln save on them though. Seen 3 5+ saves in a row, dam all space elves.


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## ufoturtle081 (Feb 10, 2011)

Orochi said:


> Right for starters. Plural of Talos is Taloi. I hate grammer nazi-ing but honestly.
> 
> 3 Ravagers is still horrendously cheap for the amount of rape they bring. 3 Taloi are one sided and a little boring. That's the way it was before, that's the way it is now.


When I was writing this thread, I thought "Taloses" sounded funny, but I was just to tired to look up the correct way. Thanks for being that guy who cared enough to correct it. 

I still do not think I will try the triple Taloi list; I just do not realisticly see them getting to the enemy w/out a portal(and I hate the new portal), espcially when I can have Ravagers hoping around and laying down heavy fire from turn one. 3 Taloi, like you said, would just not being as exciting as a bunch of nimble Ravagers flying around.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Ravangers, only reason is all my armies builds have the ability to shoot out 20 str7 ap2 shots at range 12.


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## Medic Marine (Jun 28, 2009)

The primary person I play with runs DE. I struggle as a DA and codex player to kill his Taloes more than ravagers and raiders, its fun to atch HB bring those down. The only good note is Talos are slow to get to you.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Talos need a WWP to make it happen on a table of 4x4 ft. Small games they function in a similar way to Wraithlords (geared for CC). They can dominate 'parts' of the board, but you cannot rely on them to affect the whole battle.

Against Green tides and Nid hordes, who rush to engage in CC, placement early on is the only factor. You want them to tackle tougher units (like Tyrand warriors) but anything with massed rending (Genestealers) and mass Powerfist/claw (Nobz) will tear them a new one in a couple of rounds. This in my eyes makes them very situational. They fit in well with a Warck/Grotesque list (as this will probably utilise the WWP anyway) but a Chronos Pain engine provides a 'greater' benefit army wide. Whilst a Talos is purely an armoured fist...and there isn't much that Grotesques cannot defeat that a talos can.

Ravagers however, are another matter. Yet, even these once no-brainer choices now have a competitor. The Voidraven is more expensive granted. But Loses the extra Lance in place of stronger lances. This makes it a tricky choice. Mind you, Voidravens have some juicy looking choices, and most will fall for a missile or two of various nature.
3 Voidravens would scare me more than 3 triple lance ravagers.
Now, running the Triple Dizzy cannon Ravagers is a kick in the groin for MEQ/TEQ lists. The thought behind Dizzy ravagers was probably "...and to fuck space marine players over lets give them....". The competitors for this is the Razorwing fighter. Which, is more geared for GEQ engagement. I know theres the choice to upgrade the 2 lances to Dizzy cannons. And with this, you have one model that, one the turn it arrives, can put out 4 large templates, 6 Dizzy shots and 6 Splinter cannon shots. Alot of wounds, but only 6 shots that'll go through power armour. This is a better attack to deal with Orks, nids, guard etc.
So against Marines (of all variations), who are the popular armies in general, 3 Triple Dizzy Ravagers is the scarier option.

If you;re running ravagers, now, just like in the previous codex, optimal running would be 2 triple lance ravagers and a single triple Dizzy ravager. In my eyes, a long long long time DE player, is a little underpriced. I know they are paper thin skimmers. But this is a lot of firepower for the cost.

However, in my ever changing ways of playing. I have found an alternative. Something I, in my experience and games, have found ot be even more powerful.

I now run 2 Voidravens with Flickerfields and 1 Razorwing Fighter with Flickerfield and Dizzy upgrades.
This option is more expensive. By about 120 points (the cost of a Ravager more or less). So it doesn't curtail to the strength to cost ratio of Ravagers (pay fuck all get fuck loads). But is a little different and extremely effective.

So by all means, Ravagers are scary. But, I will tell you in advance, as soon as Voidravens and Razorwings get a model (if they do...which I imagine will be a dual kit; Ie, you can build either) then there will be lots of topics about 'how do I beat this!'. 

And, now that I am actually awake and not posting at like 4 in the morning. I can confirm that the Plural of 'Talos' is Talos.
One Talos, two Talos...3 Talos. Much like 'Fish' or 'Sheep'. So my mistake earlier and I apologise.


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