# WYSIWYG. How far do you take it?



## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Title pretty much sums it up. 

Are you a 100% tourny player? Does wysiwyg carry a literal meaning for you? Do you allow major substitutions? Do you allow minor substitutions? Do you allow pogs? 

How far do you take it?


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Once my army is finsihed it is 100% WYSIWYG, but I take my army tourni's so it has to be.

But whilst Im building it I proxy a lot. I am currently using a vindicator from a different chapter, a landraider crusdaer in place of my redeemer (once again in a different chapters livery), my commander has one of the wrong weapons, as I havnt yet made the change I need to do, and my razorback has the wrong gun, as my list changed after I had finished it. 

But everything else is now correct. I dont expect my opponent to be wysiwyg, as long as they explain what they have if I ask them.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

I am with Humakt. I would love to see it as close as possible and I try for WYSIWYG but as long as my opponent explains what he has, and has it denoted in some way, I don't push the issue.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

WYSIWYG for me is pushed to the point of if you have 2-3 similar units with a lascannon in that squad then they have to be lascannons not one is a missle launcher the other plasma cannon and this one is a lascannon. 
That's as far as I'll take it in friendly games/competitive games as I will sometimes have say a power weapon on my HQ that I may want to count as something else this time.

In tournaments WYSIWYG to the highest standard possible!


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I only insist obvious things are WYSIWYG, I don't care about tiny things like searchlights and smoke launchers and grenades and pistols, as there are loads of ways these things could otherwise be represented in reality or hidden on a person, I just don't like seeing boltguns becoming lascannons and combat knives being flamers, things like that I'd prefer WYSIWYG or just take it off.

if your doing it for a one off because you lost the model, or you don't know if you want it yet fine, if you do it game after game get the proper model.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

Blue Liger said:


> WYSIWYG for me is pushed to the point of if you have 2-3 similar units with a lascannon in that squad then they have to be lascannons not one is a missle launcher the other plasma cannon and this one is a lascannon.
> That's as far as I'll take it in friendly games/competitive games as I will sometimes have say a power weapon on my HQ that I may want to count as something else this time.
> 
> In tournaments WYSIWYG to the highest standard possible!


I don't play in a lot of tourneys but I would agree that a different standard should be set for tournament play. It eliminates any possiblity for confusion and dare I say cheating. But in friendly games I think a littlemore latitude is perfectly ok.


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Tournaments = WYSIWYG

Casual pick up games with friends: as long as they specify what they are using and have a list made up then thats cool.

If they are random players looking for casual games with no list then its WYSIWYG thats it, thats all. 

My reasoning is I am not a player that reads codexes and remembers all armies rules ahead of time. I enjoy the challenge of walking into a battle not knowing everything. So this makes games a lot more difficult for me and I don't feel it is my job to remember all these proxy models/equipment.

Chaosftw


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

im a lax proxy fiend myself, but thats mostly because I tend to go through money droughts where I CANT buy the model I need to go WysiWyg, I have my Space wolf tourny list WysiWyg so I use that for tournaments, atleast until I get good with my Dark Eldar and make a good tournament list for them I have the WysiWyg for


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

If a sinlge one of my opponent's Tactical Marine is missing a grenade, oh boy, God so help me I will toss him a real one!

I really don't care what my opponent uses. One person used a Hive Tyrant as a Trygon, which pissed me off because I have 3, but allowed it anyway.


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## VanitusMalus (Jun 27, 2009)

For myself I like my army to be fully painted and modelled before I play against anyone, I'm just anal like that.

However against an opponent I'm pretty lenient as long as I can clearly see and understand what is suppose to be what. I have played from the simply unpainted all the way down to the base with a paint dot that represents a powerfist weidling model. If the list is too confusing or there are too many similar models representing too many varied units I can't play against that, it's just too easy for an opponent to cheat.

Also when you play with a heavily proxied army you have no choice but to let your opponent know your list.


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## OpTi (Aug 29, 2009)

tournaments are wysiwyg no exceptions.

Anything else i don't give a crap long as it's made clear to me what it is. Friendly games i don't even care if they have an army list long as it's near the point cost as possible, for competitive games such as practices for tourney's i also like to have an army list i can read or the minimum of having every unit on the table and a full rundown of wargear so i can memorise it.


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## The Thunder of KayVaan (Jun 19, 2009)

I pretty much always play WYSIWYG, but i don't mind if my opponent proxies a few models here and there, but not too much. I've had a few bad experiences with cheaters and proxies...


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## CLT40k (Jun 18, 2010)

Mostly I don't care... mostly...


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## Corporal Chaos (Nov 27, 2007)

I play it loose at the moment. My buddy and I are in a bit of a learning curve. I prefer not to have something totally off but we do proxy until his collection catches up with his lists. I do not play tourney and I do like to have a reasonable represneation on the table.


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## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

in torniments i'm even fine with people saying "this flamer coutns as a meltagun". Hell in friendly games i have let a few people proxy the entire army and then thye do proxy i try to find a simular sized modal (atleas ton the same size bace) to take it's place.


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

100% WYSIWYG. Too many bad experiences of opponents springing nasty surprises on me in the past. 

(Read "Cheating" for "Springing Nasty Surprises")


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I have never been in a WYSIWYG game myself as i dont play competitively, but the house rule is no proxies unless GW dont have an official model, conversion and kit bashes are fine too. 

But my opinion of it is black and white, if you going to play in a tournament that is WYSIWYG then the model on the field should match the details on your army sheet down to the grenades on his belt. 

My customers are split down the middle,some are converters plain and simple and the other half are likely making models WYSIWIYG,quite often i see orders and its a complete commander with his war gear options purchased entirely in bit form along with the required body parts and even a single base,then with the comment "can i get this quickly i need it for a tournament"


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Usually as long as I know who has what, I'm happy. If your SM commander has a power sword but you tell me it's a relic blade beforehand that's fine.

As I understand it you only need to represent optional equipment on your models. Eg: you don't need to model a BP & grenades on all of your regular SMs, but you do need to model any extra equipment like flamers & meltaguns.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

I personally, am strictly 100% WYSIWYG, but i don't mind the odd proxy from an opponent here and there.
I'm quite easy going on things like that so it doesn't bug me as long as they have made it clear and have a reasonable approximation for the missing model.
I play alot of Apocalypse so its hard for a lot of people to have a matching list and physical army. And i don't play Tournaments so thats not an issue for me.

SGMAlice


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

I think any and all special weapons and Icons (for CSM) should be inter-changeable.

For example, say I use x2 Flamers on a 10 man CSM squad, then upping those to x2 meltaguns or x2plasmas should actually just be completely allowed IMO.

But in saying that if your changing x2 flamers into x1 meltagun and x1 plasma gun, then thats a problem as you'll never know which one is which in most cases and that can lead to all kinds of range arguments. 

At tournaments WYSIWYG should be pretty tough, however if I brought along a single Dreadnought with an Autocannon and wanted it to be a Plasma Cannon, that shouldn't be a problem as long as I've written it specifically down on the armylist sheet, but again if I'm running multiple dreadnoughts they should all be spot on so there isn't any dispute about "no wait thats the autocannon one" and "no thats the plasma cannon one" etc.

In saying that here's a serious question for tournament buffs, I'm hoping to get my CSM army up to scratch for tournament play next year, and I use all combi-weapons on my terminators and a few on my Rhino's.

Can I be sneaky and write on the army list sheet 'combi-weapon' as thats whats in the codex and then change between games what they are i.e Game One - Mech guard, they are combi-meltas, Game Two - Tyranids, they are combi-plasmas?

Obviously I wouldn't switch mid game and be an a**hole.


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## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

D-A-C said:


> I think any and all special weapons and Icons (for CSM) should be inter-changeable.


I feel the same about my guard. I frequently use plasma guns which as far as I can tell, only come in the command squad pack, which two. But even then, I have only used heavy flamers, melta guns, and a blast master to represent them. In my group we have seen, a pikachu rhino, a lego trygon at the extreme edge, and catachan snipers representing sm scouts at the other.


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

D-A-C said:


> I think any and all special weapons and Icons (for CSM) should be inter-changeable.
> 
> For example, say I use x2 Flamers on a 10 man CSM squad, then upping those to x2 meltaguns or x2plasmas should actually just be completely allowed IMO.
> 
> ...





Nave Senrag said:


> I feel the same about my guard. I frequently use plasma guns which as far as I can tell, only come in the command squad pack, which two. But even then, I have only used heavy flamers, melta guns, and a blast master to represent them. In my group we have seen, a pikachu rhino, a lego trygon at the extreme edge, and catachan snipers representing sm scouts at the other.


Have you two heard of magnets? K&J Magnetics has crazy small magnets for great prices I have used them on my CSM, Orks, SM, and Blood Angels. I used "1/8" dia. x 1/32" thick Grade N42 - Nickel Plated".I totally agree about interchangeable arms but at the same time to create that would mean $$ which means they kits prices would increase. The magnets are like 10.00 for 500 magnets, which takes a little longer to magnetize them all together but it saves money in the long run. I realize its a lot harder for guard as you have a lot more men. But you would only need to do it to the specific few that change their weapons not every single model.

Cheers,
Chaosftw


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## the Autarch (Aug 23, 2009)

i have said this before in another thread but WYSIWYG is a money scam for GW

if i have a squad with 3 grenade launchers and i have the models great if i dont have enough i will put in a model with a different SW and tell my opponent what it is, because honestly what is the point in buying an extra squad of models just for that last flamer your missing for your WYSIWYG.

That said a full WYSIWYG list is pretty nice to look at.

sorry bout the rant


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

D-A-C said:


> ...there isn't any dispute about "no wait thats the autocannon one" and "no thats the plasma cannon one" etc.


I find WYSWYG even more useful than that: on some friendly/practice games I have added an upgrade without adding it to the model and spent the entire game forgetting I had it.



D-A-C said:


> Can I be sneaky and write on the army list sheet 'combi-weapon' as thats whats in the codex and then change between games what they are i.e Game One - Mech guard, they are combi-meltas, Game Two - Tyranids, they are combi-plasmas?


I would say no; you have to pick one type ans stick with it for the tournament as they are different weapons so it is no different to deciding to swap a piece of war-gear or another piece of war-gear of the same value.


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

i try and do WYSIWYG as much as possible, only thing i dont put on the models are grenades, as they make the models too clutered. i saw a guy at a tourny lasy year refuseing to play anyone who had grenades on the list, but not on there models, even though none of his did, in the end the tourny oganisers basicly told him to play or fuck off and stop being a pratt


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

I'm mostly wysiwyg, with a couple of exceptions.

I don't put storm bolters on my Rhinos since I know with absolute certainty that they will snap off the moment my back's turned, so why bother? I also use chainswords for eviscerators - but _all_ chainswords are eviscerators, no halfsies.

As for opponents, I don't really care what they do. This boltgun is actually a lascannon, fine. All the weapons fell off my war walker, but it has bright lances, fine.

Just so long as I can see your list and you don't mind me asking 'what's that thing again?' every other turn.


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## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

For my Khorne Army, I don't do it; as when I started, I just bought/built however, because I was new.

However I probably will for my Tyranids - I think it looks a LOT nicer, when everything is modelled correctly- But I'd never be a dick about it, if I had a WYSIWYG army, and my opponent didn't.

As AZ said; I always have my list with me, and I give it to my opponent so he/she can check accordingly; that's always been fine.




the Autarch said:


> i have said this before in another thread but WYSIWYG is a money scam for GW
> 
> if i have a squad with 3 grenade launchers and i have the models great if i dont have enough i will put in a model with a different SW and tell my opponent what it is, because honestly what is the point in buying an extra squad of models just for that last flamer your missing for your WYSIWYG.
> 
> ...


That being said; We're lucky enough to have access to BitsandKits - He stocks everything, saving so much time and money - You can pick a flamer up off him for £0.30 or whatever - that's what I'll do when making my 'Nids into WYSIWYG.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

ROT said:


> You can pick a flamer up off him for £0.30 or whatever - that's what I'll do when making my 'Nids into WYSIWYG.


Tyranids with flamers! Run!


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

What do you think about modeling war-gear that a model does not have? For example, a good portion of my Templars are modeled with various kinds of grenades- because it looks cool. Yet, in any given list, I haven't included them. Does that throw you off?


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

I'd love to be fully modeled to the details, but player, that is a bit...impossible, barring extreme expense or dedication.

Case in point: my plague marines. All metal, only one special weapon (a plasma gun). So if I want to model the power fist on the champion and the 2 meltas I run? I need to steal a fist from another model (and they are not quite plentiful) and face the Great Melta Shortage paying some 6 bucks for each. Oh wait! Their metal guns are part of their damn -arms- and modding is a colossal pain!

I try to stick to the items on the list as close as I can, but for it to be viable the sprued should have a better wealth of weapon choices. I wanted to make some LC assault termies to give a Khorne icon...and after buying the box I found out that there is a grand total of zero claws in the set. I was advised to buy several erminator Lord boxes for the single pair of claws that comes with it.

So yeah, I'm bitter. And until the alternatives become more sane, expect most people I play with to accept that that plasma gun is actually a melta and that the grotesque Possessed arm I grafted to my Skull champion is a Power Fist.


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## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

Just a note; You could buy all this stuff off Bits and Kits Sephyr; Or buy a box of Blood Angels Assault Terminators (comes with a fair few LCs)

However, I agree on the Plague Marines... They desperately need plastic Models!!


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## IanC (Sep 3, 2010)

Sephyr said:


> grotesque Possessed arm I grafted to my Skull champion is a Power Fist.


I would gladly accept that. Fits Chaos IMO.


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## Abomination (Jul 6, 2008)

Amongst friends we ignore it. We appreciate a proper fully-painted model but realize the cost/time/effort can be prohibitive. So, if one of us has a jenga brick for Calgar, or a Hot Wheels car for a Bike then so it be it. As long as its explained what is what it really doesn't need any intelligence to cope with proxy.


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Abomination said:


> Amongst friends we ignore it. We appreciate a proper fully-painted model but realize the cost/time/effort can be prohibitive. So, if one of us has a jenga brick for Calgar, or a Hot Wheels car for a Bike then so it be it. As long as its explained what is what it really doesn't need any intelligence to cope with proxy.



Wow. I thought my LCG was pretty lax.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I play my army as wysiwyg to the point where if i don't have the model then i don't use it. The only thing i will do is sometimes play power weapons(modelled) as ccw's. I don't have enough hq models for all the weapon combinations. I only really play friendlies though.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

ROT said:


> Just a note; You could buy all this stuff off Bits and Kits Sephyr; Or buy a box of Blood Angels Assault Terminators (comes with a fair few LCs)
> 
> However, I agree on the Plague Marines... They desperately need plastic Models!!


Well just to point out we dont get are own box of termys 

And as for what you see if what you get sadly i have to be a rules lawyer, im sick of people saying normal marines are thousand sons or plague marines Or having different war gear then what they are carrying....(hey a bolter is a power fist?? really ???) So ya, it might tick people off but if i don't see a piece of gear on the model that you say does...You dont get it!!


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

As long as its consistent than its cool. My loganwing terminators all have havoc launchers glued to their backs as cyclones, and I have a small squad of marines with sonic weapons as multi meltas. As none of these weapons occur in any other places in my army its pretty good. What I dont want to see is 'this guy with twin linked missile pod has a burst cannon/fusion blaster. This guy with fusion blaster and missiles has plasma rifle and flamer"


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

I'm 90% WYISIYG.
I don't care about grenades; but if we're playing an earlier edition, and you say your Khorne Berzerkes all have chain-axes, there had better not be any chain-swords.
Hey, I spend money to have the proper gear, or if I can't get it, then I don't say I have it, and take another upgrade instead; or just pay points for what's actually there.
It's just being courteous.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

I just wanted to 'resurrect' this thread because :

1. I think it is interesting.

2. (The Real Reason) I have a question which is as follows.

I'm currently making my Blood Angels Assault Squads and in my army list I'm giving the Sergeants Powerfist, but I don't have any spare fists and also I think that a blue power swords will look cooler. 

I (or my nephew) might want to use this army in tournamnets next year so can I model is as the Blue 'cool looking' power sword or will people kick up a fuss at a tournament?

The squads themselves are identical with two squads of 6 people, 1 Sergeant with a fist, x3 Bolter and Chainswords (actually modelled), x1 Flamer (actually modelled) and a sanguinary priest (unique metal model easily distinguished by paint scheme). 

So my thinking is, even if I give them a power sword and have them listed with powerfists, it will be easily distinguishable which model is which as they'll be the only guys with a big blue swords lol.

So what do you all think?

Would any of you care if you came up against this scenario at a tournament?


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Even though I am not what I consider a frequent tourney player (I might attend something local or regional every few months) I model for WYSIWYG but as a general rule of thumb I do not model stuff that comes as part of the model as standard like bolt pistols and grenades on normal marine tactical squads for example.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

I am 98% WYSIWYG... I dont care about the bolt pistol holsters and the frag grenades on the belts, but dont claim that you have a melta bomb if it aint there!


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## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

i take it as far as the main gun a model is holding

that gardsman has a plasmagun, he should be holding one.

i dont bother with grenades, but thats about it


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## CaptainBudget (Jun 14, 2010)

D-A-C said:


> I just wanted to 'resurrect' this thread because :
> 
> 1. I think it is interesting.
> 
> ...


In all honesty I reckon as long as you are consistent and tell your opponent about it (i.e. the magic blue swords are very ornate and well-crafted blades; for all intents and purposes they count as power fists) then I don't see how this would be a problem; it's just a new and novel way of representing a bit of kit. If you modelled it to look like it was very ornate and a two-handed weapon, you will probs be more likely to justify it (hey, why not even push it further by modelling one so it looks like he's wielding it with two hands; fairly obvious it's too big to be a power sword now). I do this sort of thing with my marines all the time and no one's complained, they still know what it is.

Anyone who gets really anal about that I think doesn't deserve your play time. Unfortunately you can't stop all that happening at a tournament, but those sorts of people would probably find another way to rub you the wrong way anyway.


In terms of WYSIWYG, I'm fairly lenient. Weapons I insist on at all times (I've played a few games where I let my friend count all flamers as plasma guns and completely forgot several times, leading to several tactical blunders. I don't do that anymore). Wargear, not so fussed by as long as some of it is fairly obvious. I don't mind proxies for the odd special weapon, as long as it's fairly obvious it's not a regular squaddie and there are only a handful to keep track of (this normally involves nicking something from another army). I also like Captains and Sergeants, etc. to be distinctive so I can tell who they are. I don't like ignoring a squad and focusing on a bigger threat, only to find out next turn the unit actually contains a tooled-up Captain who looks almost exactly like a regular squaddie and proceeds to tear my army to bits.

I'm one of those players who prefers to loose because my opponent was the superior general, not because he was hiding the "Beard-Lords magic stick of pain and death" and didn't tell me about it. I've had that happen before and it really makes my blood boil. :ireful2:
I usually discuss what toys both of us are using with my opponent and clear up ambiguities so we can focus on out-smarting each other.


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## Brother Arnold (Aug 29, 2010)

_Oh, yeah, that Free Company Militia guy from my Empire army is actually a Clawed Fiend..._
But seriously, I at least try to model the correct weapons on my stuff. Those Kabalites with the dark lance, blaster and the Sybarite with blast pistol, agoniser and phantasm grenade launcher? They count as Kabalites with a dark lance and blaster and a Sybarite with blast pistol, agoniser and a phantasm grenade launcher. But the little things like grenades, melta bombs, etc. I don't care about. As long as it's in your army list or the squad's wargear, (and, if it's something at least one other unit/model of that type doesn't have, if it has something to distinguish it) then I'm good.
On that note, if you were feeling like a really insane genius, then I'd be fine with you using Bretonnian peasants on 40K MC bases as Groteques or on 40K infantry bases for Plaguebearers. They're ugly enough (not the models, the actual peasants) for Grotesques, and smelly enough for Plaguebearers. In cases like that, explanation on what they represent and some fluff explanation on why those peasants are representing Great Unclean Ones are essential. Hell, even my local GW's used a black box unit of Kabalites with all the heavy and special weapon options available as Trueborn. (Probably so you could see what each weapon does, as long as you don't get carried away tankbusting with the dark lance and fire at targets that splinter weapons could hurt) Granted, they did WYSIWYG chainsnares, splinter racks, gruesome trophies and an enhanced aethersail onto the Raider in return...


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## nightfish (Feb 16, 2009)

I'm not sure how much of a discussion there is on this.

Warhammer is a WYSIWYG game. Simple as really; if you don't abide by it then whats the point. Might as well have a free for all.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

nightfish said:


> I'm not sure how much of a discussion there is on this.
> 
> Warhammer is a WYSIWYG game. Simple as really; if you don't abide by it then whats the point. Might as well have a free for all.


Warhammer is also an _expensive _game. So you think people shouldn't be able to play it if they don't follow WYSIWYG? 

Games Workshop does an awful job with some of their box contents, leaving you without many of the weapons you can give, say, a tactical squad, why should I pay an extra £5-10 for bits that _should _come in the box, especially when you have to pay £25 a go, or maybe even more. 

My opinion on WYSIWYG has always been, as long as something is clearly identifiable as something different in the squad, and it's consistent throughout the army then fine. 

For example, you want to run a squads meltagun as a plasma gun, fine, but don't have another squad with a meltagun, that is a meltagun, unless it's easy to know which is which, i.e. unique colours or other equipment.

Another example from a game I had, was an opponent ran two unpainted dreadnoughts that both had a multi-melta mounted on it. He wanted one to have an autocannon and the other to have a lascannon, but there was no way to tell which was which so in that instance I said no.

That's usually how I play it, in friendly settings and tournaments. 

(BTW thanks for the opinion on my question Captain Budget +rep for you.)


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## nightfish (Feb 16, 2009)

D-A-C said:


> Warhammer is also an _expensive _game. So you think people shouldn't be able to play it if they don't follow WYSIWYG?


Yes. WYSIWYG is central to the concept of play. If you give an inch, before you know it your giving a mile and then the game dilutes, making it not worth playing.

GW are doing a lot better with their plastic kits now so theres no excuse and its very easy to get additional bits. I'm sure *bitsandkits *will happily oblige.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

nightfish said:


> Yes. WYSIWYG is central to the concept of play. If you give an inch, before you know it your giving a mile and then the game dilutes, making it not worth playing.
> 
> GW are doing a lot better with their plastic kits now so theres no excuse and its very easy to get additional bits. I'm sure *bitsandkits *will happily oblige.


Well we'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. I think you can give that inch, just don't let your opponent take that mile. 

But hey, like I said, that's just my opinion.


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## PanzerPig (Apr 15, 2008)

I'm with D-A-C here, I only play with friends as I'm quite a narrative driven player, so I don't speak for any sort of tournament play. However, if you have to proxy a model fine, as long as its easily identifiable and let me know before hand what it has go for it. WYSIWYG is fairly important but not the be all and end all of play, for me the be all and end all is that we both have fun, if that's achieved by someone using a model they don't have yet then go for it. 

I'm fortunate in that the people I play with all have armies that represent what they have to about 90%, despite our lenient approach, this is because we enjoy collecting and painting and seeing our armies displayed. I have a DA exarch that has the power wep and shimmer sheild model but I made it before I realised I wanted duel cats, I remind everyone before every game what it actually has and no-one minds. 

If someone cheats due to not WYSIWYG'ing then its more a problem with that gamer than the rule, if they cheat like that then they may/will cheat another way, just don't play them again.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

D-A-C said:


> ...can I model is as the Blue 'cool looking' power sword or will people kick up a fuss at a tournament?
> 
> Would any of you care if you came up against this scenario at a tournament?


I myself would not care; as long as all blue swords are power fists it is clear enough.

However, I can forsee some people having issues as it involves remembering something.


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## Eleven (Nov 6, 2008)

If someone ever told me that my plague marines must have an actual melta or they wouldn't play with me...or that all my eldar transports had to have the proper turrets (even though I would have to pay for a full wave serpent kit for each turret), I'd give them a good chuckle and gladly pass them up as a uptight asswipe.


On a side note, my armies are about 90% wysiwyg. My plague marines / one wave serpent with bright lances instead of scatter lasers / My defiler (I built it before I knew to put extra CC weapons on it) are the only exceptions.


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## Schizofen (Mar 11, 2009)

As far as tournaments go, if nothing else I'd put it down to common courtesy to run full WYSIWYG. Sure it seem fine to say "all plasmas are actually meltas", but if in addition "all lascannons are autocannons" and "all dreadnoughts have assault cannons" etc it'll just get confusing. Tournaments are about tactical skill, not memory skills, and if your opponent has to ask what everything really is all the time it just slows the game down. It may also make the game harder for them, because they can't just rely on their past experience of instictively playing based on what the models in front of them are, and have to consciously think about what's what.

For this reason I'd never consider trying to get away with taking anything other than a full WYSIWYG army to a tournament. Obvious conversions I'd be fine with though, like giant mutated hands as power fists, wings instead of jump packs etc, just not things that are obviously one thing counting as another.

Friendly games on the other hand, I'm not fussed. Personally I'll very rarely proxy, apart from the odd melta bomb from time to time, but I don't really care what my opponents do. We're an honest bunch and they'll always remind me if it looks like I've forgotten so it's fine.


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## Luisjoey (Dec 3, 2010)

I do play WYSIWYG i dont like to kill unpainted miniatures or soda cans monolith

if you play with customs miniatures is great, but playing with empty bases meaning cheesy things is something that bores me.


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## Dragearen (Sep 8, 2009)

Honestly don't care. My LGS doesn't care. Even in tourneys, the only rule is simply that your army must be fully built, but they allow a few empty bases here and there or what have you.


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## StalkerZero (Oct 3, 2010)

I don't care. Sure in a tournament I'd want it to be strict but at the moment we play whatever flies. If you want to field a POG glued to a base go for it. 

We're buying things faster than we can assemble so a lot of the reason I don't post battle reports is half our units have no arms, some no heads, and definitely most have no guns glued to them.

Except my brother who is unemployed and only goes to school 2 hours a day four days a week.

His army is full painted already.

:angry:


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## Widowmaker666 (Jul 30, 2008)

I use conversions for my combi-meltas, I use a bolter and a necklace clasp that i picked up from A.C Moore, about 20 clasps for 3 or 4 bucks, awesome deal and looks like it could be a melta barrel ( i will post a tutorial soon). I do not know if this is what the original poster meant, but it was my interpretation. I've never had a problem with people because the people i play with are all pretty chill, but if i ever go somewhere and people give me shit about it, I may have to crack my knuckles and look mean :victory: 
I dont care when im playing with my buddies but if someone I dont know or at a tournament is, for example, using a lasgun-totting guardsmen as a space marine with a flamer, then i will usual call him on it, if he has a convincing story ill let it slide though, its a hobby and its supposed to be fun, people who cant be chill about stuff like that piss me off.


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## lastdaysofhumanity (Nov 29, 2010)

I limit myself to small swaps, like changing special weapons around, but it has to be consistent (ie I can say "all plasma guns in my squads are meltaguns" but not "this squads plasmaguns are melta, this one's plasmaguns are flamers")

Several of my gaming buddies are in the process of switching armies at the moment though, so they run partially or fully proxied lists.. I tolerate this, but mock their necrons-pretending-to-be-spacemarines or whatnot incessantly.


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