# Empire New Stuff Prices! A big WTF!!



## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

The New Empire stuff has gone up on advance order with some very odd prices, I'm not sure if these can even be correct.

10 Empire archers (106 piece set) £15 (well £14.70 at new tax rate)k:

10 Empire Greatswords (66 piece set) £25!!! (£24.45) What the hell?

The Plastic Steam tank is listed as £35 (£34.25) which seems silly considering is is far more expensive than the much larger Leman Russ (£25). I know it's better than paying for the metal version but still...:aggressive:


----------



## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

That does seem to be correct but I have to agree the pricing seems to be wacky. How are Steam Tanks (and Valkyries which cost the same for some reason) worth more than bigger kits?


----------



## BDJV (Dec 15, 2008)

I just looked at the US site and the pre-order of the greatswords are listed at 41.25. So roughly 42 bucks for ten Plastic WFB models!?! That's Frakin' highway robbery.

I though GW's whole concept was to create plastic minis to make collecting cheaper. It wasn't that long ago I could get a box of 10 metal Greatswords for 45 USD. I know that's pricey but they were Metal.


If this is a sign of the upcoming price hike it might be the last nail in my GW gaming coffin. After 25 glorious years of collecting GW miniatures it looks like my limit may be reached. I'll still pay 40K and WFB, but I will build no new Armies that I don't already have the models for; BTW that's a lot of minis.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

£25 for 10 plastic models?..............F-off GW


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I wouldn't panic,it will just be an error, its currently £12 for 5 metal great swords so charging £25 for 10 plastic wont happen, besides i have it on good authority that the steam tank is £25.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

bitsandkits said:


> I wouldn't panic,it will just be an error, its currently £12 for 5 metal great swords so charging £25 for 10 plastic wont happen


thats allot of faith in a company that screws you over ever second they get


----------



## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

WoW glad I got 30 Metal Greatswords off ebay for a fiver.
Those prices seem abit odd, hope bitsandkits is right.


----------



## bon_jovi (Nov 16, 2008)

It will be a f*ck up., if nothing has been confirmed one way or another i'll ask trade on monday when i have to order.

It could just be a clever (well, i say clever) marketing ploy, show them at really high prices just to drop them to the usual price so you feel so lucky to be getting them so cheap lol. See look at how cheap they really are.....

Eitherway, its not gonna be right so i wouldn't worry too much.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> thats allot of faith in a company that screws you over ever second they get


You come over very bitter towards Games Workshop, have they wronged you in a big way?


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Yea that seems a bit excessive to me. Thank god I don't play Empire anymore. Those Great Swords, while nice models arn't worth that at all, its easier to just scratch build them and a dam site cheaper as well.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

bitsandkits said:


> You come over very bitter towards Games Workshop, have they wronged you in a big way?


after 14yrs of ruining all the good games and good armies and charging prices 3x the worth of an actual model/box set, but refusing to actually improve there 2 main rule systems, instead just leaving them to be the same recycled crap over and over again and neglecting every army except space marines till the last minute when nobody cares anymore, then yeah to me they have wronged me as a player.

but hell I still have 8 systems to play which haven't changed as much or made so many things obsolete, and only ever improve every day without changing everything.

but I also put some, hell allot of blame on players as well nowadays, allot of players ruin the game more than GW ever could, with a narrow mindedness that would frighten even the most ardent Christian, also these days there is too much emphasis on winning at all costs, exploiting badly written rules as far as humanly possible, and striking down anyone who comes up with new ideas to advance the game.

all these factors have produced a company I hate, and a game I can only play on extremely rare occasions against people as open to new things as all should be.

but anyway, OT


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> after 14yrs of ruining all the good games and good armies and charging prices 3x the worth of an actual model/box set, but refusing to actually improve there 2 main rule systems, instead just leaving them to be the same recycled crap over and over again and neglecting every army except space marines till the last minute when nobody cares anymore, then yeah to me they have wronged me as a player.
> 
> but hell I still have 8 systems to play which haven't changed as much or made so many things obsolete, and only ever improve every day without changing everything


Must be something about the company that keeps you happy enough to keep on playing?, lets face it you post on heresy all the time about the main core systems, so you cant honestly be as bitter about everything as you would like us to think surely?.
If you have been playing for the last 14 years (since you were six ?) and you felt like they have constantly ruined everything about the games then is it not time to throw in the towel and move on?
after all GW are not going to change, they have been doing pretty much the same thing since the early 90's?


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

bitsandkits said:


> Must be something about the company that keeps you happy enough to keep on playing?,


I only play nowadays to give me something to actually do when all other systems are unavailable to me for that day


bitsandkits said:


> lets face it you post on heresy all the time about the main core systems, so you cant honestly be as bitter about everything as you would like us to think surely?.


I only post for the discussion really, bad or good just talking about it in some way gives some enjoyment


bitsandkits said:


> If you have been playing for the last 14 years (since you were six ?)


those were truly the days, able to afford things due to my mother just wanting to get me out of her hair so she could have sex with anything that moved, got me out of the house away from being violently abused in different ways by her and her BF's as well (probably where I got my hatred for humanity, wishing everyone would drop dead), unable to reach the table that well, but still fun, unable to paint a thing, everything smelt, felt, looked different, happy times...minus the abuse.


----------



## BDJV (Dec 15, 2008)

I know it's off topic, but I'll post it anyhow. I think both WFB and 40K are both stagnant and under developed rules sets. The systems could be much better. 

The only things that keep me coming back is the Kool background of both systems and the comradery of the online community. These two things keep me playing both systems, but will not keep me buying what I view as overpriced miniatures.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> those were truly the days, able to afford things due to my mother just wanting to get me out of her hair so she could have sex with anything that moved, got me out of the house away from being violently abused in different ways by her and her BF's as well (probably where I got my hatred for humanity, wishing everyone would drop dead), unable to reach the table that well, but still fun, unable to paint a thing, everything smelt, felt, looked different, happy times...minus the abuse.


Well Stella ,its not the usual "introduction to the hobby" story i normally hear but it certainly is an original one! And it goes a long way to explain why you would be upset at GW for effectively screwing up something you hold quite dear.


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

I'd be surprised if they were that expensive; it's possible but I would be shocked! £14 would be closer to the mark, surely? 

Can we stay on topic anyway please... by all means be angry/upset whatever if they turn out to be so expensive but some of the stuff posted so far is unnecessary.


----------



## Llamafish (Mar 3, 2009)

Well this conversation been interesting... keep it up :clapping:!!! GW always been expensive, but as you get older you learn what you can afford...

At the forgeworld opening, one the designers suggested that a 500pound titan is in most ppl price ranges as that the same as a second hand car... If you willing to pay in to a monopoly your pay there prices... ie get over it!!

all i can say is thanks for conversations, ebay and wargamesempire (or similiar shops bah)!!... surly you can get the metal steam tank off ebay for less.:gamer2:


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

In all fairness a kid at school asked me where to find the titans as he didn't know there was a Forgeworld site... His dad is happy to blow 500 quid on one for his birthday.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i have considered buying the £500 reaver, but my wife talked me out of it with threats


----------



## Llamafish (Mar 3, 2009)

Syph said:


> In all fairness a kid at school asked me where to find the titans as he didn't know there was a Forgeworld site... His dad is happy to blow 500 quid on one for his birthday.


But a month rent on a Toy!! But would it be a investment, i dont know what a armourcast titan would cost now..... but i sold most my oop choas dwarfs for alot of money.. enough to buy a titan (d'oH)

there going back on to subject... warhammer an investment!!


----------



## Llamafish (Mar 3, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> i have considered buying the £500 reaver, but my wife talked me out of it with threats


i got that from a baneblade.... Then got told off for not buying enough limit edition forgeworld and selling if all on ebay!! (woman)


----------



## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

seeing these models on gw site first really threw me for a loop. Marius Lietdorf, back again? With a shitty model though... gawd. I'm excited for plastic Huntsmen and the Greatswords, so long as they stick to their usual 22 a box... however i'm highly appalled with GW's nerve to jack up the prices twice in what six months? Really starting to get annoyed.


----------



## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

Youch, just checked it recently and that's pretty insane prices for only 10 models, must be a typo it can't be THAT much. Compare that to Black Orcs that cost around 30 bucks or the same # of guys and personally I think look a lot better, its a huge rip off. Hehe it'd be pretty sad if they did the smae thing wrong with the Valkyrie and its price tag just went higher,thank god I'm not an Empire Player!


----------



## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

I keep telling everyone, GW is a communist cult intent on punishing the capitalist pig dogs! Why else would they charge $35 for 10 plastic Marines?

To keep the wealthy un-wealthafied, that's why. Am I right comrades?

Not here eh? - Jez


----------



## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

Captain Galus said:


> I keep telling everyone, GW is a communist cult intent on punishing the capitalist pig dogs! Why else would they charge $35 for 10 plastic Marines?
> 
> To keep the wealthy un-wealthafied, that's why. Am I right comrades?



Hell yeah! Down with overpricing! And brains! or so on... :clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping: :goodpost:


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

[email protected]

this is the email for Gw customer service, several other forums have decided that they wanted to let GW know their feeling about the cost of these sets,personally i still think its and error, they have messed up prices before with the online store, but just in case it's not, maybe it's time to let them know that £25 for 10 plastic great swords isn't something we can swallow(pun intended) and Fred Dibbner (god rest him) wouldn't pay £35 for a steam tank.


----------



## bon_jovi (Nov 16, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> [email protected]
> 
> this is the email for Gw customer service, several other forums have decided that they wanted to let GW know their feeling about the cost of these sets,personally i still think its and error, they have messed up prices before with the online store, but just in case it's not, maybe it's time to let them know that £25 for 10 plastic great swords isn't something we can swallow(pun intended) and Fred Dibbner (god rest him) wouldn't pay £35 for a steam tank.



I'm with bitsandkits here, we are all going mental at the prices before comfirming if they are even right. Lets face it, it's hardly the first time they have buggered up prices is it?

As for the titan, i was there when he said that. £500 for a titan? its about the same as a used car and lots of people have them don't they? Not quite in the real world but great argument all the same lol.


----------



## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

Keep it on topic guys. (referring mostly to those posting on page 2)

i for one was very excited. I am less excited if those prices are correct.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

bon_jovi said:


> As for the titan, i was there when he said that. £500 for a titan? its about the same as a used car and lots of people have them don't they? Not quite in the real world but great argument all the same lol.


Can't argue with logic like that, Maybe they could also try and claim they are helping the environment by reducing the number of used cars on the road by selling people titans rather than cars?:laugh:


----------



## KarlFranz40k (Jan 30, 2009)

Meh, it is over priced if this is the case. But then you get some amazing kits in terms of models and gameplay for a lower price (ie. chaos knights) i woulnt mind buying 10 greatswords with full command for £15, its consistent with other elite plastic infanty like grave guard. The archers I wouldd never buy, period. I can get all I like from the militia kit and its far cheaper. Plus I prefere handgunners and crossbows.
Steam tank....I started scratch building one back in september and never finished it. Now I guess I'll finish it rather than fork out that much money, any more than £20 is absurd.


----------



## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

I am fairly confident that the prices will drop by the time the kits become available. However, it is the overall price increases that are pissing me off. Greed is really going to kill them. They cater this hobby mostly to kids, read white dwarf and you'll see what I mean. And well, kids have no money! I am just starting up an Empire army, and to be honest I was looking forward to the addition of these plastic figures. Having an extensive Daemon army, I've grown sick of working with metal!!! Great stuff for the plastics comming out, I just hope they keep their prices a little reasonable!


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Games Workshop isn't that stupid... are they? (Read with that sarcastic, hopeful tone of a small child discovering there's no Santa Claus)

50 bucks (which is about what 25 pounds amounts to these days) is fine for 10 metal models. Sort of. I mean, it's something we've gotten used to and kind of expect. But not 50 for 10 plastic models. Space Marine terminators are highway robbery since they're 5 for 50 and they're plastic, but there are ways to get them cheaper, such as Assault on Black Reach. Everything else GW has in plastic is at least semi-reasonable.

The 10 men for 22 has stopped me from building an Empire army for Fantasy already, because I'd want a pure State Troops army and that's just not economical. But the thing I think Games Workshop doesn't consider that they really ought to is that the models for Warhammer Fantasy are, particularly in the case of "monster" models like Orcs and Beastmen and whatnot, used extensively for D&D, and 10 models for 22 bucks for that purpose is a negligable expense, since that's probably all you'll ever need. Sure, nobody's going to use the Greatswords for roleplaying models most likely, but the point remains, the market's there, and they're still turning a 300% profit on the cost of materials and shipping on a box that's ten models for 22 bucks. They -really- don't need to jack it up further. Sure, shipping is a bitch right now, and the economy is bad globally, but Games Workshop is in this unique position of not having to worry about it-- GW is like a crack dealer. Doesn't matter what the economy's like, we're all junkies and need our fix. And it's common knowledge that the cheaper you make addictive substances, the higher overall return you get on them-- take Coca-Cola, for example. Global powerhouse company, and they sell you 16 ounces of caffine for a buck. It costs them like five cents to make a bottle of coke, and you pay a buck for it. You do the math. It's really not so terribly different with Games Workshop. Initial costs for releases are high, but the actual production once the mold is made and the artists and assorted stooges are paid off is so negligable it's not even funny-- you can buy a casting set for making Christmas tree ornaments at Hobby Lobby for ten bucks that uses the same kind of two-part injection mold that GW uses, and just requires a propane can to heat the plastic to fill the mold.


----------



## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

To be honest, it looks like these are the final prices. Even though my manager mate doesn't reckon its true, i can't see them putting these prices up on the web without them being the final price.

And it's too much. I will not be buying these from a workshop, as i usually would.

It also looks like there's a general band increase, £12 to £15 , £15 to £18 etc etc. If this is true, i'm done with buying in a workshop and will use online retailers.


----------



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

torealis said:


> To be honest, it looks like these are the final prices. Even though my manager mate doesn't reckon its true, i can't see them putting these prices up on the web without them being the final price.
> 
> And it's too much. I will not be buying these from a workshop, as i usually would.
> 
> It also looks like there's a general band increase, £12 to £15 , £15 to £18 etc etc. If this is true, i'm done with buying in a workshop and will use online retailers.


Wow, didn't think Id ever hear you say that...


----------



## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

WoW this is crazy, I am glad I have all the models for my Empire army I will every use. But why is there another price increase I swear there was one a few months ago, Gift for geeks will get all my money now, I normal only use GFGs but sometimes I pop in to GW to get a few things if I dont what to wait but not now I would much rather wait 2 days then give GW more money. 
But £25 for 10 plastic models is a fucking joke, I was in GW soton yesterday and I was looking at the Empire wizard box as I somehow lost on of my wizards and one of the staff comes over to tell me about the new Empire models and I just laughed and said I wont be touching them due to there price and he actually agreed and told me to buy some metals ones but lucky I already own 30.
Why are these Plastic so much more pricey than any other plastic , I really wish we could see a GW stance on this but tbh it would just be some bullshit about the economy.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

torealis said:


> i can't see them putting these prices up on the web without them being the final price.


umm http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1491876&rootCatGameStyle=wh
too late


----------



## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

Death Shroud said:


> 10 Empire archers (106 piece set) £15 (well £14.70 at new tax rate)k:


i don't personally see anything k: about that price. neither their in-game value nor their manufacturing cost requires them to be £1.50 a pop.

i just don't see why gamers can't seem to get their heads around the fact that, as other companies can manage to produce similar products at quantity at a lower cost per model, we should be expecting the same value for money from GW. its no slur on GW, i think the current Empire range is one of the best ever made (i love all the new plastics), but they really aren't worth the money.



Death Shroud said:


> 10 Empire Greatswords (66 piece set) £25!!! (£24.45) What the hell?


that is frankly obscene. they are very nice. but they are not that nice.



Death Shroud said:


> The Plastic Steam tank is listed as £35 (£34.25) which seems silly considering is is far more expensive than the much larger Leman Russ (£25).


i still don't see the point in a plastic version of such a rare unit (aren't there only supposed to be 12 or something?). but putting that aside, £35 is too much to ask for such a kit.



bitsandkits said:


> I wouldn't panic,it will just be an error,


i've had my doubts since warhammer went 10 men for £12 whether it would stay like that for long. i was frankly surprised that the recut IG sprues weren't introduced at that price.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

admiraldick said:


> i was frankly surprised that the recut IG sprues weren't introduced at that price.


recut?, you mean reboxed


----------



## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

The best thing to come from GW pricing is that they haven't got a penny of mine for over a year and I've made some serious headway in painting the models that I've had in boxes for ages.
I can't see any real sense in the prices of these boxes, Archers are the halberdiers of the missile world (OK in other armies but pointless in the Empire list)
Greatswords are a rare sight in most Empire forces as they are expensive and most people have better uses for their special slots.
Fair enough stanks are common in tourney lists but at that price I'd probably just get a metal one.
I know GW make a big deal about all the extras they stick on a sprue but for the best part I'd rather get more men as I don't normally use these extra's its just more to paint.
I might start buying more stuff in the future as the hobby is still a good way for me to unwind but at the moment I just can't justify the cost even more so in todays economic climate.


----------



## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> recut?, you mean reboxed


oh, i was on the understanding that they had slightly re-cut the sprue (though not added anything to it). that's even more rubbish.

Victrix all the way for my new Chaos IG army then.


----------



## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

I've popped into my local GW, spoke to a staff member who phoned up mailorder and got confirmation that the online price for the Greatswords WAS correct. I was really hoping it was an error but sadly not. I went into the store thinking "I might get an Empire army" and left thinking "I should really get my Helldorado Immortals painted" and "I wonder what Warmachine plays like?".

I have a sense of morose resignation towards the general price rises, hence my k: to £15 for the archers but Greatswords have really got me considering my options. 

On a more positive note I had a look at the new steamtank model today, the interior detail is excellent.


----------



## Wiccus (Jun 2, 2008)

Good god I cant believe this. Absolutely absurd prices for these models! I really dont know if I can justify continuing to buy from them if they are going to be hiking prices so hard across the board. The economy sucks right now and I am having a hard enough time to buy anything warhammer related but if prices are going to be going up again I really honestly dont know if I can keep buying from them. It seems to me that they will lose some customers over this or at least take a bigger hit than if they had lower prices.

If the prices are lower people will buy more stuff more frequently, but if the prices are higher people buy less stuff less frequently. God I hope they figure out that everyone in the world cant afford $42 for 10 infantry no matter how elite they may be.


----------



## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

Hate to say it but i expect this to be the norm from now on. This is going to move me away from buying at my local retailer and into the mail order sites or ebay if i keep buying at all. I dont like it but they finally broke me.


----------



## Kitsunex (Mar 8, 2009)

Death 0F Angels said:


> Hate to say it but i expect this to be the norm from now on. This is going to move me away from buying at my local retailer and into the mail order sites or ebay if i keep buying at all. I dont like it but they finally broke me.



i'm pretty much in the same boat. with the economy the way it is i don't have a lot of money to work with. so i've been doing a lot of buying from the war store as well as looking for deals on ebay. i just got a Chaos Raptor squad NIB for $21 and 2 Chaos bikers for $9.50. 

i'd love to be able to afford to buy more stuff from my local store, but the prices are outrageous. i only go to the store if i need more citadel paint. It doesn't help that their selection is horrible. they have one unit for each army and MAYBE 5-6 of the pewter ones that come in the plastic packaging that shows no picture so you have no idea what you are buying.


----------



## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

If you have ever bought something from forgeworld, you have no right to complain about GW's prices. 

If you are a GW exec, and your sister company Forgeworld is making models at twice your price and still selling out, why wouldn't you raise the prices on your models?

They raise prices because they have proof that we will pay them. The company isn't at fault, we are.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I dont think this is a case of people complaining about the price's as they stand, but more that the prices when compared equivalent model kits in the same range cost alot less.

For example the last army for warhammer that we can directly compare against would be the lizard men, just a few months ago they released a new stegadon with bags of bits @£25 and the lizard men also got brand new plastic temple guard @£15.The two kits are as close to a direct comparison as is possible and both are £10 less than the empire prices currently quoted.

I would also go out on a limb and say that the stegadon was much harder to design and i know for a fact is far more complex than the steam tank.

they can argue that the current steam tank is £50 rrp, but who's fault is that?

I can see what your getting at about FW prices,but with FW your paying for inefficient and wasteful and time consuming method of casting and a level of details and scale not available in metal or plastic.


----------



## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

I think the comparison between the Temple Guard and Greatswords is an appropriate one in terms of how they fit into an army compared to their cost. I think the big difference in price is due to the extra bits. From the description it seems like the greatswords come with more than just extra bits, different bodies, extra heads etc (almost like the old cadian shocktrooper box). That might explain the price different cause although the number of models is the same, the amount of plastic used is more. Not saying that still justifies the costs, extra bits and pieces are great, but not for an extra $20. Just giving my opinion on how GW might have tried to justify that price point.


----------



## Da Red Paintjob Grot (May 6, 2008)

Holy crap. I can't fuggin believe this. Well, screw this, I'm going to either go to an independant stockist or just use different models. or just stop warhammer. Then again, if i still get commisions for painting i should be ok, but this isnt worth it. anyone know any other wargames that you might be able to get a 3000pt. army for WITHOUT re-morgaging a house?


----------



## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

yup, i'm done. not picking this release up from Workshop. Hello online retailers.


----------



## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

yeah i can see my local stockist going broke apart from cover charge to play there if this is new bench mark for models thats like land raider prices here nmaybe 1 or two people will pay that here but thats about it theres only 20 of us in club most have home loans kids car loans etc can only just afford to spend 50-100 a month if lucky but not going to at those prices it'll be mothly from online stockist hello 40% F you GW


----------



## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

i think that that is one of the biggest issues with prices that high. sure you can probably plan out an army in advance and save up the money (or at least plan out the expenses) and get together a very nice looking army of Empire model.

sadly that is not the way most people approach the hobby and it is not the way that GW make their money. GW make money off people who will 'randomly' buy something every week or so. its the constant 'splurging' that gives them their income. when you deliberately price models outside of that justifyable 'slurge' bracket, then you won't make the money off them that you need to.

there need to be more kits that are cheap, readily available and easy to just 'pick-up'. if GW produced 'expansion' kits to currently available models (likt the BT, SW and Chaos Mutations sprues) i think they'd make a lot more money. people would carefully think about their armies and them randomly spend on stuff that will make them look good.


----------



## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

If this is the way of things from now on I have to agree with the vast majority that it will curtail my spending. Bits are all well and good, I have plenty of converted models using the little extras, but I don't want to pay an extra 10 quid a box for a handful of extra bits. That is just daft.


----------



## Mellow (Apr 27, 2009)

Hm.....guess I won't be buying any figures right now....I wish I started getting interested in WH sooner!


----------



## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

i predict that when this bloody recesion is over(give 2-3 years, maybe 18 months if we are lucky) that prices will drop back to being stupidly low again, and when the next recesion comes (god i love capatlisium-_not_) they will rocket back up again and we will all moan and groan and tighten our belts for a few years.


----------



## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

I shall now counter everyone's statement to not buying any more models... in one word....


*EBAY!!!!!*


It works.


----------



## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

its unlikely that even on e-bay you will find many new boxes of plastic great swords for £10 off RRP.


----------



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

if you guys have a problem with it make sure you email them. There is no point moaning everytime anything new comes out and not actually doing something about it.

bitzandkitz put up the email on page 3 so get mailing


----------



## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Jigplums is of course spot on in suggesting you contact GW if you approve or disapprove of a matter. I certainly told them what I thought about it. If enough people do, who knows what will happen? 

The email again is: [email protected]

I would point out that it is a good idea to remain constructive in emails of complaint, if you hurl abuse they will delete it without even bothering to read the bit at the end where you tell them what you actually think. Just say what the problem is, why you feel how you do and what the result is.

As in, I have a fly in my soup, I am unhappy because I can't eat it, I would like a new bowl or I will be unable to eat it! :wink:


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Well its bad news im afraid, after a short phone call to trade, i can confirm that the empire prices currently on the website are indeed correct and will stand.
I explained that they were "having a giraffe" and the trade person said that" the steam tank is huge saving on the metal one which is £50, and that the greatswords is a brilliant kit and worth the money because the detail and blah blah is better than the metals blah blah".I countered with "yes but they are £10 more than any other army equivalint such as temple guard and the steam tank is the same price as a battle wagon which is fricking huge" 

Anyway i wont bore you with the details but needless to say he has to tow the company line,and his arguments seemed a bit scripted and it was obvious that i wasn't the first person who had said WTF?


----------



## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

JokerGod said:


> I shall now counter everyone's statement to not buying any more models... in one word....
> 
> 
> *EBAY!!!!!*
> ...


You imply that people have purchased these miniatures in the first place.

Also hahahah...right. GW cares so much about the community. That's why they brought armories and special rules without characters.

The simple solution is don't buy the new kits. The problem with this solution is we have people stupid/rich enough to purchase them.


----------



## Kitsunex (Mar 8, 2009)

i have very rarely found a great deal on minis on Ebay. usually after shipping, its MORE than they are brand new. most buyers seem to try to make for selling the stuff a little cheaper by charging way too much for shipping. which is why i've only managed to get a couple good deals.;


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

jigplums said:


> if you guys have a problem with it make sure you email them. There is no point moaning everytime anything new comes out and not actually doing something about it.
> 
> bitzandkitz put up the email on page 3 so get mailing





squeek said:


> Jigplums is of course spot on in suggesting you contact GW if you approve or disapprove of a matter. I certainly told them what I thought about it. If enough people do, who knows what will happen?
> 
> The email again is: [email protected]
> 
> ...


Just to re-iterate these two great posts - email them, but do so constructively. I certainly feel that they've gone too far in terms of pricing this time. A 'wah wah wah' email won't work, but comparing their own kits of similar values seems a good way to go: particularly the Battle Wagon = Steam Tank and the disparity in cost between Great Swords and the new Temple Guard. (BTW: are they seriously suggesting that the Temple Guard lack the detail and quality of the new Great Swords? :so_happy


----------



## Kitsunex (Mar 8, 2009)

yeah i sent an email to them, letting them know about my displeasure and the fact that i'll either be switching to a cheaper alternative from their competitors or i'll cease buying from my local GW store altogether.


----------



## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> You imply that people have purchased these miniatures in the first place.
> 
> Also hahahah...right. GW cares so much about the community. That's why they brought armories and special rules without characters.
> 
> The simple solution is don't buy the new kits. The problem with this solution is we have people stupid/rich enough to purchase them.


Your right anyone who buys those is going to lose money auctioning those off. I think he was talking about models in general though, not the greatswords.


----------



## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

Well i finally got around to reading this thread and im simply in shock :S im glad i dont really buy anything from GW anymore or want anything from them. To be honest this helps me decide to completely shy away from anymore GW models and look at other systems. Thanks for helping me decide GW . Still i will email them and tell them about their rediculous prices, but like 99.9% of all emails to GW get thrown onto a dusty outlook account which noone touches except to empty the computer of the messages because it's clogging up their server.


----------



## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

I think it's the straw that's broken my back. Funny I can get the same amount of metal models cheaper than the plastic ones. Bits are cool and all, if you don't mind having them sit in a box for months or years until you get around to needing them. The plastic steam tank is only 9 dollars more, and I'm pretty confident I don't need an interior... GW makes me sick!!


----------



## The Gopher (Apr 18, 2009)

Pauly55 said:


> If you have ever bought something from forgeworld, you have no right to complain about GW's prices.
> 
> If you are a GW exec, and your sister company Forgeworld is making models at twice your price and still selling out, why wouldn't you raise the prices on your models?
> 
> They raise prices because they have proof that we will pay them. The company isn't at fault, we are.


FW's prices are absurdly high because their models are much, much more detailed than the GW counterparts (if one exists at all).

I've heard from a good source that GW's in growth right now, even though every other retailer is struggling to turn a profit. I never understood why these bits of plastic cost so much, but I liked the game enough to pay for it. It's really frustrating seeing these prices go up and up, and GW refusing to even advertise because of their elitist mentality (We want people who are actually interested in our products to play, and we want high quality gamers, not just anybody who will muck up the game).

Their business model isn't actually a business model, it's a worn out elitist mentality that just discourages their long time players from continuing playing simply because of the price. There's people that have been playing for decades and remember when the prices were reasonable and affordable. It seems like GW has a profit margin they want to continue to meet, but I know so many people that do not want to play the game purely because of the price. If GW cut the price and took the profit margin loss in favor of higher volume, I don't see how they wouldn't make more money.

I say this, because a very, very, very good source told me that it costs ~$1.50 to make an AoBR set. I'm not sure if that's purely manufacturing costs, or if it includes all the operating costs, but even still, that kind of profit margin is too ridiculous. This is further proved by the fact GW employees get 50% off everything. *Nobody* is going to give employees so high of a discount that they lose money every time an employee makes a purchase, so it's safe to say that the profit margin is ~50%.

I might have just dumped a few barrels of gasoline on the fire, but GW's business model really irritates me. I purposefully do not buy any of their hobby tools or paints because I'm not giving them a cent more than I'm required to to play the game.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Ok this is my last post on this thread,GW have made it clear that the prices will stand,that's fair enough, we all have the choice to buy or not to buy.These model represent a unprecedented 3rd wave of releases in the last few years and have completed what is a 100% plastic empire army, who are the best selling army in the warhammer range,they are in effect the space marines of warhammer .

Alot of other forum users on here and other rooms have emailed,phoned and written to GW expressing concerns over the price,Funny really the price isn't really the problem,what we are talking about is perceived "value for money".
GW can price a model at any price they like, but people have to be happy to pay that price for them to make a profit.
Take for example the bane blade/stompa, £60 model only usable in apoc games,but they are huge sellers for GW, massive box,hundreds of parts,when built they are both massive and impressive models,they must have a perceived value for money at £60.

On the flip side GW also sell terminators 5 models for £25,these are GW's biggest selling line of any system,yet they sell 5 Ork nobs for £15, the Ork nobs contain all weapon options,loads of extras and bits, terminators only have half the available weapons per box and cost £10 more.So really the greatsword price isnt too much of a surprise when you think about it,they are in effect just the "empires" terminator squad.

I think what im trying to say is what ever GW set the price at, enough people will buy the kits to justify the price as they are basically in a win win situation, if they sell loads of kits they will say "look the price was right we have made loads of money" if they sell less kits they will say "lucky we decided to charge more to cover production costs and profit".
i think people should keep writing to them, it wont change the price of these because they couldn't allow themselves to be influenced by people complaining,but it might stir them up enough to think future pricing changes through a bit more. 

[email protected]

i just want to add i dont support or condone the price rise in anyway, i will however carry the new plastics for this range in bit form, with the possible exception of the steam tank.


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

You've made some excellent points there as an alternative side of the argument. I have no doubt these will outsell the metal alternatives - you still _are_ saving money on the existing range, whether it's as cheap as comparative kits or not. 

I think I read earlier on that the Stegadon would have been a harder kit to make than the Steam Tank. Having seen the CAD drawings of the Steam Tank (IRL, not on the internet) it's an incredibly complex kit, and should be very accurately made so it should be a breeze to assemble. What's the current one like?

I still think they're overpriced in comparison to other plastic kits (it could also mean we see other elites like Black Guard and Swordmasters as equally expensive lines?), but I think the nail has well and truely been hit.


----------



## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> Ok this is my last post on this thread,GW have made it clear that the prices will stand,that's fair enough, we all have the choice to buy or not to buy.These model represent a unprecedented 3rd wave of releases in the last few years and have completed what is a 100% plastic empire army, who are the best selling army in the warhammer range,they are in effect the space marines of warhammer .
> 
> Alot of other forum users on here and other rooms have emailed,phoned and written to GW expressing concerns over the price,Funny really the price isn't really the problem,what we are talking about is perceived "value for money".
> GW can price a model at any price they like, but people have to be happy to pay that price for them to make a profit.
> ...


ah, i get it now. the worth of the GS is much greater than the worth of the TG, therefore it has a higher price. in this dog eat dog capatlist socity, that seems fair.


----------



## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

The Gopher said:


> Their business model isn't actually a business model, it's a worn out elitist mentality that just discourages their long time players from continuing playing simply because of the price. There's people that have been playing for decades and remember when the prices were reasonable and affordable. It seems like GW has a profit margin they want to continue to meet, but I know so many people that do not want to play the game purely because of the price. If GW cut the price and took the profit margin loss in favor of higher volume, I don't see how they wouldn't make more money.
> 
> I say this, because a very, very, very good source told me that it costs ~$1.50 to make an AoBR set. I'm not sure if that's purely manufacturing costs, or if it includes all the operating costs, but even still, that kind of profit margin is too ridiculous. This is further proved by the fact GW employees get 50% off everything. *Nobody* is going to give employees so high of a discount that they lose money every time an employee makes a purchase, so it's safe to say that the profit margin is ~50%.


to start off, GW is only making a 1% profit margin, if any other company dropped even to 5-10% they would close up shop and go home. The prices have nothing to do with profit, its cost to make and the fact that currency world wide are dropping in value. 

and the AobR box takes a lot more then 1.50$ to make. Everything ok apart from this bit. Keep it civil?

GW doesn't waist millions on advertising because there smart enough to know it would not work. How do you properly show off the game in a 30 second ad spot? or a one page ad in a magazine? you can't. you can ask people that have in playing WH for years and years and they can't give it to you in less then 30 seconds. its not an Elitist move, its being smart with what little they have.


----------



## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

JokerGod said:


> to start off, GW is only making a 1% profit margin, if any other company dropped even to 5-10% they would close up shop and go home. The prices have nothing to do with profit, its cost to make and the fact that currency world wide are dropping in value.
> 
> and the AobR box takes a lot more then 1.50$ to make. stop pulling shit out of your ass.
> 
> GW doesn't waist millions on advertising because there smart enough to know it would not work. How do you properly show off the game in a 30 second ad spot? or a one page ad in a magazine? you can't. you can ask people that have in playing WH for years and years and they can't give it to you in less then 30 seconds. its not an Elitist move, its being smart with what little they have.


Even with all that possibly being true, I'm not paying fifty us amerikkan dollars for five douchebags in minicooper-like suits of armor.

Also does GW at all fund what Relic does with the liscense?


----------



## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

GW dont fund relic, Relic pay a royalty for every game sold with the Gamesworkshop trademark. 

I notice this alot when GW have a price rise, people start complaining about the business, saying they will go else where, go for it! Games workshop have tried everything they possibly can to save money, you will notice in alot of smaller shops they will only have 3 staff members - The manager, a full time staff member and a part time one. Packaging has gotten ALOT smaller, and they are trying to combine kits to save on space and packaging! People really dont realise that GW are in Debt! and everytime they release a new range of models they end up deeper in debt! any one remember the old rhino? when GW released the new one the old just made a profit (and i mean just, it was hardly noticeable and not enough to cover the development of the latest rhino)

GW have my full support for the price rises! I dont want to see my hobby die!


----------



## Kitsunex (Mar 8, 2009)

*removed at mod request*


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Just so everyone is clear, GW was operating at 5% profit, but that's on the back of running at a loss for a while. Products cost about 30% of rrp to produce as an average, another 65% is lost through costs of running the company and tax etc. Sales world wide are about £120 million , split 4 ways 30% UK, 30 % Americas, 30% Europe and 10% Asia pacific.


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> Just so everyone is clear, GW was operating at 5% profit, but that's on the back of running at a loss for a while. Products cost about 30% of rrp to produce as an average, another 65% is lost through costs of running the company and tax etc. Sales world wide are about £120 million , split 4 ways 30% UK, 30 % Americas, 30% Europe and 10% Asia pacific.


Thanks again for the insider input b&k. 

Can this just be a friendly warning for the senseless, OTT comments to stop now please? 

Topic at hand, for those lost in the mire: Empire new releases overpriced compared to plastic kits and previous metals?

Thanks.


----------



## The Gopher (Apr 18, 2009)

Removed at request to prevent further derail.


----------



## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> Just so everyone is clear, GW was operating at 5% profit, but that's on the back of running at a loss for a while. Products cost about 30% of rrp to produce as an average, another 65% is lost through costs of running the company and tax etc. Sales world wide are about £120 million , split 4 ways 30% UK, 30 % Americas, 30% Europe and 10% Asia pacific.


Now I always thought that the UK/Europe had a larger fan base and sales then the US. I know the US market is a lot smaller for WarHammer then on the other side of the river as far as size and number of hobby centers. 

I think we will see a lot more rising prices from GW, and there is nothing that can be don to stop it. And despite what people keep telling them selves it has nothing to do with what GW wants to do, its what they have to do. We are in a recession and bordering on a depression. Prices rise as value of currency falls, and GW has to increase there prices to keep the small sliver of profit they have to stay alive. 

If GW dropped quality for price you would all complain that the models are crap, but when they keep quality and are forced to raise prices by the economy you still complain.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

JokerGod said:


> Now I always thought that the UK/Europe had a larger fan base and sales then the US. I know the US market is a lot smaller for WarHammer then on the other side of the river as far as size and number of hobby centers.


The UK on its own has a market share of about 30%
europe as a whole has a market share of about 30%
usa/canada/south america combined have about 30%
asia and australia etc make up the other 10%


----------



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

in fact like alot of retail chains the gw stores only make a "profit" around christmas during nov/december. The rest of the year they break even or opperate as a loss.

Just like to say jokergod and bitsandkits have said some of the stuff i've wanted to saw in this thread, only alot more eloquently and i've avoided commenting so far to avoid flaming. It really winds me up when people make sweeping statements about gw's prices and how they operate the business when they obvious have no concept of how business's work or how comparative to other companies gw's policies are so customer orientated rather than profit driven.

Also i think maybe the greatswords are an overreaction to some recent pricing "mistakes". For example the arguement that if models were cheaper than gw would sell more really hasn't cut it recently with things like the knights of chaos being a prime example. They came out at £12 replacing a £30/£35? metal set and being better quality models. They haven't sold better due to the low price as gw had hoped, as most people only have 1 or 2 units in an army. I think these could have safely come out at £20 and still sold the same number as they have now and actually made back the cost of production. I think they don't want to make the same mistake with the greatswords, which are another unit you will only likely take 1 of. I think however £25 is over the top, but bearing in mind the expected price rise that would have been £20 previously.

another example AoBR has made getting started in 40k much cheaper than ever before, however gw as a business has not grown because of this increase in value, and in fact some people will still complain [gopher] that they are profiteering dispite the best value it they've ever done


----------



## Amra_the_lion (May 26, 2008)

I just saw that the greatsword box is actually going to be over 40$ for ten men.
Im so pissed off Im screaming. Ten black orcs for 25$ but 40$ for 10 smaller greatswords?! No bloody way. I'd pay 25, hell even 30$ But never ever for no damned reason pay 40$

I hope GW is happy, Im done buying their product if they maintain this retardedness. I understand a need to increase prices, fine, but this is complete bull when you look at similar sets!


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

It's 66 plastic multipart pieces, rather than solid single piece metals. The extras are what bump up the cost, so get used to each new unit like that.

The High Elven Elite Infantry boxes will be exactly the same - 80+ pieces, and £25 for 10.


----------



## Amra_the_lion (May 26, 2008)

then explain the new archer set being the regular price of only 25$ and having more pieces?


----------



## radical_psyker (Jun 6, 2008)

Amra_the_lion said:


> then explain the new archer set being the regular price of+ only 25$ and having more pieces?


It doesn't have more pieces. The Greatswords kit has 132 components (66x2). GW screwed up on the info in the online product description and didn't double the number of components when they corrected the initial contents error from 5 models to 10.


----------



## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

Still, extra bits is awesome, but I think at some point the extra cost is not worth the cost of the extra bits you get. Thing is the bits don't even allow you to build different units. I can see if they come with bits to allow you to build different units, but its only one unit. Definitely not worth it.


----------



## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

i don't personally see who the 'extra bits' argument holds any water. if it were really that costly to provide components for models all of the kits would have to be considerably more.

the simple truth is that the kit is more expensive, not because of the cost of production, but because that is how much GW felt they could market it for. i believe that they have made a poor choice and that this does not reflect a good deal and that we as customers should not feel compelled to support it simply out of brand loyalty.

@ Amra_the_lion: if you really feel, as i and others do, that this price is unjustifiable then please e-mail them directly to say so. their address is [email protected] and the greater the number of people who are unhappy about the situation and are willing to say so, the more chance we have of GW actually having to take our opinion as customers on board.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

We had a discussion over this in fantasy, over this very set, actually.

It turned out that everyone chose for GW to put in extras - it was only how the paid for it that was the issue.

If you put in extra's, you pay for them. Simple Business, no such thing as a free meal. However, the main decision came between the limit that they had.

The ability to change between models and kitbash is the most important thing.

Someone comes up to you, and says Greatswords can only be used for one set, I'd wonder what the fuck they were on about.

What about Great Weapon Cavalry? Or Heavily Armoured Crossbowmen, to represent former Dogs of War? I'm not a fantastic modeller, stuck to using Arm swaps, etc, but I can at least Kitbash, and the entire thing screams kit bash to me.


----------



## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

Vaz said:


> no such thing as a free meal.


i couldn't agree more. however, you are offering a false dichotomy. if you were saying either a price increase or nothing, then we could hardly disagree. but what we are being offered is an unreasonable increase in price or nothing.


----------



## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I saw the new Greatswords at Gamesday and they look great. Maybe GW should have marketed them in boxes of 5 instead of 10 to have the price adjustment down some. Lets be honest folks, $4.00 a model is not that much, and much cheaper then a lot of the Pewter armies out there.


----------



## radical_psyker (Jun 6, 2008)

djinn24 said:


> I saw the new Greatswords at Gamesday and they look great. Maybe GW should have marketed them in boxes of 5 instead of 10 to have the price adjustment down some. Lets be honest folks, $4.00 a model is not that much, and much cheaper then a lot of the Pewter armies out there.


Nothing bores me more than talking about GW pricing, but I will say that the Greatswords do look very nice indeed.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

admiraldick said:


> i couldn't agree more. however, you are offering a false dichotomy. if you were saying either a price increase or nothing, then we could hardly disagree. but what we are being offered is an unreasonable increase in price or nothing.


It's costing roughly $2.50 for a model, and then the extras can be used somewhere else. Spare head? Basing for my chaos warriors. Spare sword? Also going on my Chaos Warriors. Armoured Chest? Marauders scavenge armour, can be used for a chieftain, or even hollow it out and stick it on a banner pole. 

And god those curvy swords look great.


----------



## grumabeth (Mar 16, 2008)

if i was going to buy great swords for my new empire army i would just buy the new 50 pound starter battallion. 20 Empire State Troops, 10 Empire Handgunners, 10 Empire Greatswords and eight Empire Knights. your losing a cannon but a cannons cheap anyway and this is quite a cool way to expand an empire army


----------



## BrotherYorei (May 9, 2009)

first, the greatswords are only $41.25, not $45. 

either way, $4.12 per model seem high so, either someone in the pricing department @%#$ed up big time or something else is going on under the surface. 

On the other side of the arguement, how many greatswords does anyone usually use? 10-20? so, buy them once (and, if you already have greatswords) then dont buy any more ever. in the long run, they will not actually be as expensive as they seem now.


----------

