# GW is putting stuff in Digital format.



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?type=article&aId=22200010a


Looks like it is iPad exclusive stuff but this is something of a plus in terms of them stepping up to the current tech.


----------



## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

This being iPad exclusive is somewhat annoying, as I'd prefer to get it on an android tablet (as they're cheaper), but it's a step in the right direction for GW.


----------



## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Trust them to use Apple as the launch platform.

Otherwise, its about time, they have been lagging behind for a while now.

Alice


----------



## wombat_tree (Nov 30, 2008)

How much do they cost? I couldn't find the price.

Anyway I guess that's fine as long as they never decide to exclusively publish digitally, I like my hardback books (also I don't have an iPad )


----------



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Yah thats what I was getting at, it also is a means for them to add in new content. The Stormtalon is in the iPad Codex.


----------



## darktide (Feb 16, 2009)

If they stick to just the [email protected]#! for a format then they will loose a LOT of players. I know that in my gaming community they would loose over 90%


----------



## Callistarius (Aug 17, 2010)

Good idea, pity about the format. Kindle version codex (perhaps without a lot of hte extra art) would be pretty damn good.


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Ugh, I've wanted an Ipad since the things came out, but I haven't had the cash for one (woe is me, the college student, whose monthly income is...well... yeah.)... and this just is one more thing that I'd love to have an ipad for.


----------



## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

The Son of Horus said:


> Ugh, I've wanted an Ipad since the things came out, but I haven't had the cash for one (woe is me, the college student, whose monthly income is...well... yeah.)... and this just is one more thing that I'd love to have an ipad for.


^My relationship with tablets _other_ than the iPad^

How I feel about this announcement on the other hand...

GW does a lot of things that put me off. But hell, obviously I play Warhammer. 

Apple is, as far as I'm concerned, more deserving of censorship than profanity or pornography. This is unsettling for me, as GW, someone who only annoyed me up to this point and had a core product I enjoy, has formed an unholy alliance with a company that I fully expect to announce a merger with the Gods of Chaos any day now. 

Disclaimer: Hyperbole 

If they made it available for other tablets I would be less horrified. Optimally, I'd love to see them make straight PDFs of their books, although this would be redundant with what's already lurking in the corners of the internet...


----------



## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

i also wish that it wasnt exclusively for the ipad/stuffs.


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Col. Schafer said:


> If they made it available for other tablets I would be less horrified. Optimally, I'd love to see them make straight PDFs of their books, although this would be redundant with what's already lurking in the corners of the internet...


Not to mention even if they sold them to you they needed a way to make sure you can't just upload copies everywhere. So this solution makes some sense...I think. Though being available for cooler OS's would have been nice or maybe a way to check them out and print them online otherwise. Not interested in an iPad when I have a device slightly bigger and one slightly smaller. No Point.

Good idea though.


----------



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

They look good and I'm liking this move. I can't see them going exclusively digital, at least not until the whole world is exclusively digital, and that is many centuries in the future (or not, only time will tell and I will be long dead...)

haha, even in the 40k universe they have libraries full of books...


----------



## RedThirstWill Destroy (Nov 10, 2011)

I can see what they've done, using iTunes is one of the more secure ways to go digital but it's not 100% secure, if they release all the dex's on there people only need to carry one item which is already smaller a codex and they'll have them all with them rather than carrying a bag full of books.

I like it personaly


----------



## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

has anyone else noticed that hte two dudes in the pic are floating 

anyway, a good move by GW, but only ipad


----------



## Todeswind (Mar 2, 2010)

42????? 42 freaking DOLLARS??? They want to charge me $42 for a product that costs them exactly $0 to produce other than the Apple commission per sale and paying a graphic artist to make the file?

That isn't just stupid and greedy it's wildly incompetent. People are capable of counting, if they weren't willing to buy the paper copy because it was too expensive they aren't going to spend more on a digital one. The people who have the disposable income to buy an iPad aren't going to spend 20% of what it cost to buy the damn thing on a book they already probably have a PDF dealing with.


----------



## Cruxyh (Apr 22, 2012)

I was interested, until I got to the part where it mentioned the ipad... I never quite got why anyone would want a ipad in the first place, so seeing GWS making ipad exclusive stuff is a bit of a let down, to be honest.

Guess i'll have to wait untill they make non-ipad exclusive digital stuff...


----------



## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

I like the move by GW to go digital, but why just ipad...there's about 4 or 5 such devices in my household and they're all bloody Tablets:angry:


----------



## LazyG (Sep 15, 2008)

Wow, lot of really diehard fanboyism in here...

Anyway, iPad makes sense as it is a platform with basically one format to orry about, one screen ratio, and one distribution channel. A lot of mobile stuff starts on iPhone/iPad only as it is cheaper to develop. The problem with developing for Android (both phoen and tablet) is the really large number of different handsets and subversions of the OS. Both handset makers and even individual networks customise elements of Android to their devices, making for a dizzing arrat of possible devices you might end up needing something to run on. For Apple it is considerable simpler.

This is basically an aspect of the old apple versus x86 argument. You can go for a closed ecosystem where everything is made my one manufacturer and get homogeneity leading to (generally) higher ease of use and better integration but at a higher price and with less user choice. Or you choose an open ecosystem which si lower price and has more user choice but leads to much more complexity for users and developers to handle. 

What this means now is economically ya developer can give you a fixed price for developing for iPad, plus you know how to sell the product to people. Thats a lot harder on Android for now, so people tend to start with iOS then expand to Android if it is popular. 

Also, is seems figures from March show Apple has 73% of the tablet market, which makes them the best to start with economically. If you were targeting smartphones not tablets then you'd really need to pay attention to Android, and maybe in fact smartphone editions of codexes, reformatted to be easily usable on the move would be a good idea, but that is a different product that requires new layout. Moving from paper to iPad is a relatively simple design task.

Kindle makes less sense to me, as only the kindle fire has colour graphics and the stuff they are releasing is the graphics heavy stuff not the text heavy BL stuff (which already runs fine on Kindle anyway). 

I guess if this is popular you may see Android version soon. For Android fans, this means you want the iPad owners to get buying to show the concept is popular! 

[I use a windows pc for gaming and media, a mac laptop for work and a raspberry pi running Linux as a media centre, fanboyism is pointless]


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Thing is apple market share is only high because they were the only one doing tablets, there share is being eroded very quickly and by android, samsung will eventually become dominant in the tablet arena too and android will be the OS of choice across phones and and tablets and likely pc's at some point. GW really should have both formats available and should be thinking a kindle version too.
Plus outside of the states i dont think Ipads are that popular, i think i have seen 2 in the last 12 months and both people looked really paranoid to be using them in public,where as i see hundreds of people using kindles and android devices.
its a step in the right direction but it should be accross all formats.


----------



## Shady ed (Sep 9, 2010)

I guess anyone who wants a digital copy and doesn't like wasting money on apple products will have to pirate them.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

I am liking this move. A bit annoyed that it is not available on the iPhone, but hey, I will be getting a new iPad this summer anyways, so whatever.


----------



## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

I would like this move, but there are two main reasons why I don't.

a) I don't have an Ipad, and unless I get a job, won't be getting one anytime soon.
b) The Space Marine Codex Is the same price as the paperback book, which is £24.99. Couldn't they at least lower it down a couple of £'s - otherwise People will most likely stick with their physical copies.


----------



## Turnip86 (Oct 7, 2011)

It's a move in the right direction definitely but I'm not rushing out to go and buy an iPad. To me the name sounds too much like it's for the busy woman on the go at the wrong time of the month. 

I find it funny with all the apple rage though, I used to really hate apple products until I bought an iPod touch and I find it much better than any of the alternatives even to the point where it's better than a lot of smartphones just without the calling facility and 3G (although the 3G model is out now) The only thing I really hate about apple is iTunes. It's a horrible program that doesn't do anything I want it to and decides by itself what it wants to sync to my iPod meaning if there's something I don't want on it I have to delete it from the library and just unticking it in the sync area doesn't work for some reason. Anyway, slight digression 

If it was available for iPod touch/iPhone then it'd be awesome and obviously making it available to android users will probably come with time. Remember GW are all about grabbing money so releasing it on as many platforms as they can to maximise their profit is an almost certainty in time. They do really need to reduce the cost of the books in the app though, paying more for a copy that can run out of battery is ridiculous.

Edit: To be honest regarding price, it makes sense for them to charge more if they'll be providing updates BUT this can piss off the people that only have paper copies as they wont have the latest goodies. Plus the 360 degree viewer on the SM codex seems fun but gimmiky and overall useless and just there to force the price up.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Even though I love they are going digital, I only have a Kindle and won't be getting an Ipad any time soon, so it's a shame but at least they are heading in the right direction.


----------



## Groedius (May 9, 2011)

Well this sounds rather interesting that they have finally decided to do this. I just hope for that now this means that they will update the codex's more often in the digital format, However this kinda puts people with the book at a disadvantage so im not sold on that. The other thing I dislike is that it is only available on the Ipad and im not a fan of apple products.


----------



## DanoNecrono (Apr 15, 2012)

Well I don't like the fact that it's JUST on the Ipad but I guess my daughter can kiss hers goodbye.


----------



## Uncle Nurgle (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm crazy disapointed by this, I have an IPAD and when I saw the annoucement, went straight onto IBooks to check them out.

£24 for the space marine codex. Are you joking? Why would I buy that? Seriously? What on earth would make me pay the exact same amount as the physical copy for the digital one. I mean, what??

The rest of them are just overpriced white dwarf articles. Seriously, the deathknell is just the painting guide from white dwarf and the gaming article from white dwarf, but for £2.50 or so.

The scrolls of binding? Just that, just the same articles from the white dwarf but at .69p. Come on! What the hell seriously???

Pathetic.

And this is coming from someone who normally thinks that the majority of people who whine and complain about GW are pathetic and need to get some perspective.

This though, I can't understand, perhaps there is someone with experiance about the move into digital that can explain these prices?


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I don't see any issue with £24 for the digital SM Codex, compared to £24 for a fucking 4 year old book in paper format...

Equally fucking ridiculous prices. There's no VAT on books, no fucking excuse for the price rise.


----------



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

darktide said:


> If they stick to just the [email protected]#! for a format then they will loose a LOT of players. I know that in my gaming community they would loose over 90%


Jeez, there really is no pleasing some people huh?

They don't have any digital content, its in the wrong format, price increases, poor quality, bad rules, enviromental damage, famine, plague, disease etc etc.

Its a hobby/modelling company that specialises in making plastic men for us to paint and play with, if you all want to stop playing because they put stuff in a certain format that you don't have or like, well, have a nice day.

Seriously, why would you quit because they favour apple for their digital content, alot of people have and use apple, and who says they'll never use other formats?

Even if they don't, people will more than likely convert and circulate them into compatable formats.

Relax buddy and take a deep breath.



TheKingElessar said:


> I don't see any issue with £24 for the digital SM Codex, compared to £24 for a fucking 4 year old book in paper format...
> 
> Equally fucking ridiculous prices. There's no VAT on books, no fucking excuse for the price rise.


This however annoys me no end. No production costs should equal a cheaper price right? Wrong.

I hate the fact e-reader companies are doing this shit, and getting together to keep prices high.

I hope the government tears them a new one in the lawsuit filed against them in the U.S


----------



## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

Why not just as secure PDF's over iTunes?


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Sadly D-A-C, governments take the side of what gets them individually more money - ie, business. 

E-books will continue to cost more (comparatively) than less environmentally friendly alternatives, no matter what, until one company decides to spark a price war.


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Great so GW finally digitalizes yet we STILL have to pirate their material through shady websites because they only release it via a single format. Brilliant.

Also I'll be surprised if they ever release a digital SoB codex since we are still waitiing for a PDF....


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

I just spent a good while fiddling through the Codex: Space Marines and the Ultramarines Painting Guide on my old iPad, and they are fairly awesome. 

Everything is laid out perfectly for the iPad screen, with everything divided into sections, making it easy to find everything from the list of Space Marine chapters to the army list. The gallery is cool with the 360 images and the ability to zoom in on the minis. 

A cool feature that will certainly help me is the ability to click on the names of rules or pieces of equipment in the unit entries, and a box will pop up and explain the rule/piece of wargear. So if I need to know what, say, Move Through Cover does, I dont need to check the rule book. 

I think this was a great move by GW. Begone my old pirate copies. Time to get the proper thing going. :laugh:

Edit: But I still want an iPhone version as well.


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Digg40k said:


> Why not just as secure PDF's over iTunes?


Because GW wouldn't get as big a kick back from Mac for having an iPad exclusive product. $$$


----------



## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

The week AFTER I buy a Transformer Prime tablet >.<

I highly doubt though that they plan _only_ to release these in Apple formatting, simply that approximately (according to some statistic that I can't back up from listening to the radio) 50% of smart phone/tablet sales go to Apple. Therefore one format would reach the highest number of consumers in one go.

Once they've got their pockets full from this after a month or two, they'll likely expand to other formats since it'll doubtlessly take more work to get things to work for all the different Droid types out.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Could they get it on kindle? Is it even possible? I know Kindle is a pretty simple pad.


----------



## Vhalyar (Mar 19, 2010)

Arcane said:


> Great so GW finally digitalizes yet we STILL have to pirate their material through shady websites because they only release it via a single format. Brilliant.





Arcane said:


> Because GW wouldn't get as big a kick back from Mac for having an iPad exclusive product. $$$


Or maybe it's not just a PDF. Maybe, just maybe, it's using certain features of iBooks 2. Maybe it has interactive elements and behaves more like an app than like a simple PDF.

Oh wait, that's exactly how it is! *It has interactive elements and additional features that a PDF file doesn't offer.* In other words, you can't simply port this to Kindle or Android by snapping your fingers. Don't let this get in the way of your sour grapes though :grin:

This is way better than the paper version. Like Doelago said, the ability to tap on a wargear or special rule and get a pop-up explaining what it does is amazingly useful, instead of flipping back and forth through pages. If upcoming armies have their digital codexes released in a timely manner, I can't see myself ever buying a physical copy again. I wouldn't buy a digital copy of a codex that I already own though; the extra convenience and features are not worth it.


----------



## notsoevil (Nov 30, 2010)

I think they're too expensive, but at the same time, I don't see myself buying physical codices again, that's for sure.


----------



## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Seems cool... GW finally entering the 21st century, more than a decade late  Hopefully, all codexes will come in this format. Hopefully, this will be available also on Android tablets. Hopefully, codex updates will be available for little or no fee (ie auto-FAQuing codexes). Hopefully, the price will be in line with actual codexes. 

But right now, no way I'm paying about 32 pounds for a codex I already own... Oh, and no way I'm paying for an iPad! So, overall, nice, but useless for my gaming group. The only guy who's got an iPad... doesn't play SM! They should have taken the logical middle step and released some PDFs...

Phil


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Being an iPad exclusive is worthless to me. Nice features or not I have no plans on buying one for that. Though it took years of complaints to get the other marine FAQs updated so I'm not expecting overnight. 

Personally since you can put links and tooltips into a PDF that's just fine for me. It would be nice if they could sell both together somehow, an updatable copy with a battery free one. Course i could just scan in my codex's and do all that myself.

Actually...long as they don't go hardcover maybe I will do that. Thanks for the idea GW!


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Vhalyar said:


> Or maybe it's not just a PDF. Maybe, just maybe, it's using certain features of iBooks 2. Maybe it has interactive elements and behaves more like an app than like a simple PDF.
> 
> Oh wait, that's exactly how it is! *It has interactive elements and additional features that a PDF file doesn't offer.* In other words, you can't simply port this to Kindle or Android by snapping your fingers. Don't let this get in the way of your sour grapes though :grin:


Or maybe I never said anything about porting it to a Kindle or Android . Maybe, just maybe I don't even have one and don't give two shits about tablets. 

Oh wait, I didn't! Actually I was talking about porting it onto a PC since it's not exactly difficult, or at the very least using the resources to port into a similarly functioning flash app or pdf which would funtion on open source. Don't let this get in the way of your clever comments though :grin:


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Really, they are going digital in 2012? Try fucking 10 years ago when most companies had already gone digital. Properly going digital would mean acknowledging the existence of the online community and possibly interacting with them to get fan feedback and playtesting for new rules sets etc.


----------



## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

mcmuffin said:


> Really, they are going digital in 2012? Try fucking 10 years ago when most companies had already gone digital. Properly going digital would mean acknowledging the existence of the online community and possibly interacting with them to get fan feedback and playtesting for new rules sets etc.


Heretic. People will tell you the online community is not a good thing. We are all POS whiners because we won't eat the bread GW so nicely puts in our worthless collective mouths... GW knows best... Hail GW.

:laugh:

Phil


----------



## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

I like the idea, cus then they can update errata and add an FAQ section in the back, e.g new codex comes out, instead of having to have the errata, it just updates the copy of the book and puts any FAQs in the back, it would be pretty handy. The only problem with this is if it runs out of power you are pooped. But it still looks cool and practical... if you have an Ipad...


----------



## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

About time.


----------



## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

Hmmmm

I made my own PDF using my scanner, my official copy of the SM Codex (which was £10) and about 3 hours of my time =)

I have it now on my PC and my Android phone and I have my Paper back in the library (see bathroom) for more .... indepth reading when disposed =)

total cost... 3 hours of my time =)

I simply wont support Apple products in anyway, nor will I support any DRM product as it infringes on my statutory rights afforded to me by my country =)

If GW offers a competing product on an Open Platform that is not DRM'd then I would consider its purchase, but it will need to be atleast half the price of a hard-copy


----------



## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

SGMAlice said:


> Trust them to use Apple as the launch platform.
> 
> Otherwise, its about time, they have been lagging behind for a while now.
> 
> Alice


It's not like the majority of the planet owns an apple device


----------



## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Marneus Calgar said:


> It's not like the majority of the planet owns an apple device


No, and i thank whatever powers that be for that fact.

It is simply that Apple created the first tablet, in todays sense, and has the lions share of the market due to that. This trend is dropping however (Because Samsung Are AWESOME! :biggrin: ) so its likely that Android versions will be released at some point. Along side others.

For now though, people will have to do with waiting for those who buy them and convert them through various means into other formats, for wider consumption.

Yarrgh!

:laugh:

Alice

Disclaimer: I don't pirate material, that was simply for effect...


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

SGMAlice said:


> No, and i thank whatever powers that be for that fact.
> 
> It is simply that Apple created the first tablet, in todays sense, and has the lions share of the market due to that. This trend is dropping however (Because Samsung Are AWESOME! :biggrin: ) so its likely that Android versions will be released at some point. Along side others.
> 
> For now though, people will have to do with waiting for those who buy them and convert them through various means into other formats, for wider consumption.


Exactly as has happened with the Iphone. Iphone came out as the first "next-gen" phone, then samsung and all the other homeboys got their finger out of their arse and made better, reasonably priced devices.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

mcmuffin said:


> Really, they are going digital in 2012? Try fucking 10 years ago when most companies had already gone digital. Properly going digital would mean acknowledging the existence of the online community and possibly interacting with them to get fan feedback and playtesting for new rules sets etc.


They tried that, their forum rightly closed when it turned into a shitfest.

Also, the majority of players are not exactly top-tier players...if playtesting was open, things like 20-man CSM units might be considered OP.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

No, i mean have a presence on forums who can interact with the fans, like ADB does to an extent, or like a lot of companies do. as for the playtesting, why not get the proven tournie players to do playtesting and such, because if the game is balanced enough for tournies it will be balanced for all play, because no one can break a codex like a competitive player  

but 20 man CSM blobs with lascannons are so good, i mean moving 6" per turn and not shooting your overpriced weapon? OP as fuck.


----------



## Turnip86 (Oct 7, 2011)

20 man CSM blobs should be called the lascondom - never leave home without protection


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

mcmuffin said:


> No, i mean have a presence on forums who can interact with the fans, like ADB does to an extent, or like a lot of companies do. as for the playtesting, why not get the proven tournie players to do playtesting and such, because if the game is balanced enough for tournies it will be balanced for all play, because no one can break a codex like a competitive player
> 
> but 20 man CSM blobs with lascannons are so good, i mean moving 6" per turn and not shooting your overpriced weapon? OP as fuck.


Hmm, but some prefer to put their prejudices in the way of RaW. There's no perfect solution.


----------



## HadronFlux (May 31, 2012)

All of these cries of porting are narrow minded. As someone who is using iAuthor to test out digital textbook feasibility in the classroom I can vouch for the fact that it isn't just a "copy and paste some text" to make an iBook. Once you add-in the interactive features that iAuthor allows (360 model views and such) you've left the realm of easy to port. They have to pay people to assemble this content and you need some level of skill to do so (iAuthor isn't as simple as using MS Word - especially for interactive content).

Apple's approach gives them a development app, a distribution channel, a controlled environment to house the content, and a 75% market share for tablets. There is no way they'd give up those features and put content into another channel that'll risk easy piracy. Sure you can just scan the pages, but then you've lost all of your interactivity and the quality of the end product suffers (some scans are pretty bad - I have them on my ipad).

As I have an iPad, I will most likely get the codices for the books I don't already have and if they are smart and put out the 6th edition rules in both formats it'll be a hard decision as to which I get. Quick searches of the content based on keywords and easy click to get dependent rules are really nice features.


----------



## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Can't say I care about this. I am not impressed by the price or the subject matter. I have a first gen ipad.... got it when it first appeared. Once it dies, the first and last apple product I own dies with it. 

I dislike Itunes. 

I dislike price gouging.

I despised ultramarines.


----------



## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

HadronFlux said:


> All of these cries of porting are narrow minded. As someone who is using iAuthor to test out digital textbook feasibility in the classroom I can vouch for the fact that it isn't just a "copy and paste some text" to make an iBook. Once you add-in the interactive features that iAuthor allows (360 model views and such) you've left the realm of easy to port. They have to pay people to assemble this content and you need some level of skill to do so (iAuthor isn't as simple as using MS Word - especially for interactive content).
> 
> Apple's approach gives them a development app, a distribution channel, a controlled environment to house the content, and a 75% market share for tablets. There is no way they'd give up those features and put content into another channel that'll risk easy piracy. Sure you can just scan the pages, but then you've lost all of your interactivity and the quality of the end product suffers (some scans are pretty bad - I have them on my ipad).
> 
> As I have an iPad, I will most likely get the codices for the books I don't already have and if they are smart and put out the 6th edition rules in both formats it'll be a hard decision as to which I get. Quick searches of the content based on keywords and easy click to get dependent rules are really nice features.


the codex doesn't need to be "interactive," though. Applying a gimmick feature like "interactivity" to an e-book is one thing. Shamelessly promoting that feature as the sole virtue, and as the reason that e-book can't be ported to kindle or nook is entirely another.

so there goes the core of your first argument.

anything else you'd like to add?


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Only 1 type of Kindle is in colour. Sorry, but paying for a black and white Codex is distasteful to me.


----------



## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Only 1 type of Kindle is in colour. Sorry, but paying for a black and white Codex is distasteful to me.


and it's still cheaper than an ipad

go figure


----------



## HadronFlux (May 31, 2012)

Adramalech said:


> the codex doesn't need to be "interactive," though...


Nice cherry pick - the interactivity is a bonus of the format. The reality is that they used the iPad for my other reasons: development app, distribution chain, content security and market saturation. Once you've decided due to those reasons, it doesn't matter whether you make it interactive or not *you've already lost your portability* due to the use of the iAuthor system. Apple didn't make their alignment of app->store->device so it can easily move to a competitors system (and that is their right as a business).

Yeah GW can export a watermarked PDF from iAuthor, but now you've got a perfect text copy that has essentially zero security and limited ways to monetize it. There's no way they'd do that when they can go the other route and try and entice people for a new format that offers new features.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter. They'll have to put out the paper and digital formats side-by-side due to the fact that so many people don't have iPads. If some guy with an iPad sees value in the digital product and pays more for that perceived added value, how does it hurt you? Oh, that's right, you're hurt because you do want a digital format, just done in a format you want and only with features you find desirable. Unfortunately for you, that's GW's business decision - not yours.


----------



## Eleven (Nov 6, 2008)

Adramalech said:


> the codex doesn't need to be "interactive," though. Applying a gimmick feature like "interactivity" to an e-book is one thing. Shamelessly promoting that feature as the sole virtue, and as the reason that e-book can't be ported to kindle or nook is entirely another.
> 
> so there goes the core of your first argument.
> 
> anything else you'd like to add?


Except that the core of his statement is still intact and your argument has no core, extremities, head, tail or any parts of substance. His post isn't an argument either, it's just the truth and yours is the one which is spontaneously and pointlessly confrontational. 


Fact: the product that you want (free PDF codices) is already available. Go get it and stfu. 

If you don't have a iPad then who cares. This doesn't affect you in any way. Why are you mad that games workshop is making cool stuff for people other than you. How's that hateraid taste?


----------



## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

HadronFlux said:


> Nice cherry pick - the interactivity is a bonus of the format. The reality is that they used the iPad for my other reasons: development app, distribution chain, content security and market saturation. Once you've decided due to those reasons, it doesn't matter whether you make it interactive or not *you've already lost your portability* due to the use of the iAuthor system. Apple didn't make their alignment of app->store->device so it can easily move to a competitors system (and that is their right as a business).
> 
> Yeah GW can export a watermarked PDF from iAuthor, but now you've got a perfect text copy that has essentially zero security and limited ways to monetize it. There's no way they'd do that when they can go the other route and try and entice people for a new format that offers new features.
> 
> At the end of the day it doesn't really matter. They'll have to put out the paper and digital formats side-by-side due to the fact that so many people don't have iPads. If some guy with an iPad sees value in the digital product and pays more for that perceived added value, how does it hurt you? Oh, that's right, you're hurt because you do want a digital format, just done in a format you want and only with features you find desirable. Unfortunately for you, that's GW's business decision - not yours.


TL;DR 

EDIT: If you want a response, here it is.

ipad is not a "new format." It is a tablet and an e-reader. Tablets are old news. E-readers are old news. Combining them does not make your chimeric conglomeration original.

ipad does not have "new features." Sleek packaging, apps and everything else it has are not unique to it. not remotely.

It has its virtues, I will admit, but I do not believe in the slightest that it is the -only- worthy e-reader. It certainly isn't the most affordable.

as for security, 75% market share, and all that business appeal? I honestly don't know. I can't know. but I don't know you personally, and I've never had any experience with you on this forum, so my knee-jerk reaction is to not trust you.

It puts me even more on edge when you start your post off with something as plainly unpleasant as "All of these cries of porting are narrow minded."

It creates a hostile, confrontational atmosphere right from the beginning. The erroneous accusation of cherry picking doesn't make me like you much, either. If something is really, truly beyond my knowledge, I won't try to act like it isn't by arguing against or in favor of it.


----------



## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

Eleven said:


> blah blah adramalech doesn't care blah blah His post isn't an argument either, blah blah I'm right, you're wrong, suck on my e-peen blah blah
> 
> 
> blah blah tangent blah blah erroneous assumptions


If it is a statement made in an attempt to discredit an idea, it's an argument.


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

HadronFlux said:


> All of these cries of porting are narrow minded. As someone who is using iAuthor to test out digital textbook feasibility in the classroom I can vouch for the fact that it isn't just a "copy and paste some text" to make an iBook. Once you add-in the interactive features that iAuthor allows (360 model views and such) you've left the realm of easy to port. They have to pay people to assemble this content and you need some level of skill to do so (iAuthor isn't as simple as using MS Word - especially for interactive
> content).
> 
> Apple's approach gives them a development app, a distribution channel, a controlled environment to house the content, and a 75% market share for tablets. There is no way they'd give up those features and put content into another channel that'll risk easy piracy. Sure you can just scan the pages, but then you've lost all of your interactivity and the quality of the end product suffers (some scans are pretty bad - I have them on my ipad).


Not sure why anyone would use MS Word. Also not sure why there would need to be interactive content. It's not the worst thing in existance but give me tooltips and search functions an that's an interactive as I need. Don't need iAuthor for that either.

That 75% market share doesn't really mean much to me. I'm not about to run out and buy an iPad so they aren't making anything off me period. You maybe and that might be enough to justify it for them. Just saying it's no big deal to me not matter how many 360's you get. Far as scan quality goes I can scan my own things and make them interactive. Quality isn't an issue if you know what you're doing. Of course if you already have the iPad I could see it, though I don't see buying one to get it (and I have about everything else it can do elsewhere).



HadronFlux said:


> Yeah GW can export a watermarked PDF from iAuthor, but now you've got a perfect text copy that has essentially zero security and limited ways to monetize it. There's no way they'd do that when they can go the other route and try and entice people for a new format that offers new features.


Hmm, doesn't Amazon's ebook solution have security? Thought that was available on at least every OTHER device out there. I get trying to bait us with features, it makes sense. They just don't make me want to go buy everything to use them and as far as the game in concerned they're meaningless anyway. Being able to update is the only big deal but that only matters if GW makes future use of it/ It looks like they will but if not then this whole thing would be pointless if I can make my own and keep them up to date.



HadronFlux said:


> Unfortunately for you, that's GW's business decision - not yours.


But for me, not so much. They just make less money off me! :laugh: Again, it's a cool idea, but in the wrong market for it to matter to me so I don't really care until they expand it. If they don't? Oh well. I need to scan my Eldar codex in anyway, pages falling out.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

HadronFlux said:


> Oh, that's right, you're hurt because you do want a digital format, just done in a format you want and only with features you find desirable. Unfortunately for you, that's GW's business decision - not yours.


and unfortunately he is perfectly entitled to express his views and opinions on the matter


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Adramalech said:


> the codex doesn't need to be "interactive," though. Applying a gimmick feature like "interactivity" to an e-book is one thing. Shamelessly promoting that feature as the sole virtue, and as the reason that e-book can't be ported to kindle or nook is entirely another.
> 
> so there goes the core of your first argument.
> 
> anything else you'd like to add?


I agree,

They should also sell Pdf version for a reasonable price. Then some people would buy them. Since they don't, no one buys them and this gimmicky iPad isn't going to get those people to stop pirating. Many people are pirating simply because they want a digital copy and have no alternative, not because they are poor or theives. 

GW can A. release a ppdf for a reasonable pprice and earn some money on digital content or B. not release a pdf and make no money on digital content (excluding this ipad thing). So why do people think pdfs are wrong again?

I don't even know anyone with an iPad, let alone someone who plays 40k with one.


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Arcane said:


> So why do people think pdfs are wrong again


Security. They sell you a PDF and you turn around and put it on the interwebs. Although I know for a fact that Catalyst sells PDF's so maybe they can secure them enough it's a non-issue. They seem to still be in business and I think sell PDF versions of most everything they offer. In fact the PDF's are actually cheaper and they offer a number of free starter ones too.


----------



## Eleven (Nov 6, 2008)

Adramalech said:


> If it is a statement made in an attempt to discredit an idea, it's an argument.


I can tell that reading isn't exactly your forte do I'll keep it short: what do you think gws should have done. 


I'll counter it in advance, you can already get free PDFs that are compatible with all platforms and gws didn't have to lift a finger for that. Gws made a different product that is more intuitive and advanced and will save you time in games. 

Why would they sell what you can already get for free?


----------



## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

Karyudo-DS said:


> Security. They sell you a PDF and you turn around and put it on the interwebs. Although I know for a fact that Catalyst sells PDF's so maybe they can secure them enough it's a non-issue. They seem to still be in business and I think sell PDF versions of most everything they offer. In fact the PDF's are actually cheaper and they offer a number of free starter ones too.


Lack of security would only inhibit GW from selling PDF-dexes if codexes weren't already illegally shared in the form of scans.

I see where you're coming from, though.



Eleven said:


> I can tell that reading isn't exactly your forte do I'll keep it short: what do you think gws should have done.
> 
> 
> I'll counter it in advance, you can already get free PDFs that are compatible with all platforms and gws didn't have to lift a finger for that. Gws made a different product that is more intuitive and advanced and will save you time in games.
> ...


GW already price-gouges the hell out of us.

The real question here is why not?

EDIT 1:

>>reading not my forte

literacy is -definitely- my strong point. Sometimes I just don't care enough about a person to want to read what they have to say in detail, so I skim it. You may have been correct in saying that compassion or respect was not my forte. But you didn't. So you're not.

>>mfw "I'll counter it in advance"


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Like the move.

Just wish I coulda got it on Iphone as well as Ipad since I don't have (nor intend to get) an Ipad. Just so I could maybe get online codices is not worth the price tag they slap on for me.


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Eleven said:


> I can tell that reading isn't exactly your forte do I'll keep it short: what do you think gws should have done.
> 
> 
> I'll counter it in advance, you can already get free PDFs that are compatible with all platforms and gws didn't have to lift a finger for that. Gws made a different product that is more intuitive and advanced and will save you time in games.
> ...


Even if reading isn't his forte doesn't mean lazy grammar goes unoticed 



Adramalech said:


> Lack of security would only inhibit GW from selling PDF-dexes if codexes weren't already illegally shared in the form of scans.


I don't think that would. I mean if you want to find Battletech booms scanned in free, you can find them. Catalyst still sells the rulebook PDF fot $15, of the shelf its about $40. Catalyst is smart enough to offer it in a legal easy to find place and at a price that would let you print it out. Even if you could print these iBooks the pricing alone throws it above being useful honestly. For the tech loving iPad owning crowd with money to burn this works I guess but unless they offer cheaper PDFs down the road I'll stick to paper and scan that in if I need to.


----------



## Munky (Oct 2, 2008)

Things I like:

I like the digital idea with the interactive models, chapters and rules very nice to see that in there.
The model pictures and 360 deg videos are nice for getting a good look at models you don't have or for checking out how a certain bit was painted.
The colour pictures and the detail of the ipads screen make it look beautiful.

Things I don't like:

No Iphone version
Cost
Apple only I agree PDF codex's are a must

Things I still need to know:

Are they planning on updating the codex's with new rules etc?
Are the above things included in the original price, or am I expected to forkout more for an update?
When the new codex is released for 6th edition wil my 5th edition one just update or again am I expected to blow £25 on a new one?
Do the rules for the weapons and units include the errata documents in the codex or is that still separate, I hope for their sake the errata is included or they will have roally cocked up their.


----------



## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

I can't say whether or not GW is putting in iPad-specific features to these digital codexes, but I have both an iPhone and iPad, and most iBooks work across both devices. I would image that they will work on an iPhone as well.

I can see two reasons that this was done. One is that Apple may have coughed up some $$$ to get exclusivity for a big gaming partner like GW. The other is more simple. Apple's iBook Author platform is specifically built to produce interactive books like the codexes. It may have been the easiest path to market for the otherwise digitally-impaired GW. 

I would be surprised if it lasted though. Limiting digital codexes to Apple users only really segments the player base. It would be in GW's best interest to get them on other smartphones as well as Windows laptops as well.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Adramalech, could you edit your original post instead of triple posting, it just makes it much easier on the eyes


----------



## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

mcmuffin said:


> Adramalech, could you edit your original post instead of triple posting, it just makes it much easier on the eyes


done and done. sort of. the reply to arcane got lost in the warp. D;


----------



## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

To bad I can't afford an Ipad because GW keeps coming out with cool new models that take all of my money. Oh and the yearly price increases...


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Karyudo-DS said:


> Security. They sell you a PDF and you turn around and put it on the interwebs. Although I know for a fact that Catalyst sells PDF's so maybe they can secure them enough it's a non-issue. They seem to still be in business and I think sell PDF versions of most everything they offer. In fact the PDF's are actually cheaper and they offer a number of free starter ones too.



And what is stopping people from doing this now? Nothing. So at least that way GW would make some money from it. Currently they make 0.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I disagree Arcane.

They have learned from the music and dvd industries that you can't compete with piracy by selling the same quality product for more than free.

Instead, they've opted for 'bells and whistles edition' of their stuff, so that there's some value in what you pay for.

Especially since, those of us to whom having a PDF is a big enough deal, probably already have them. I know I do.


----------



## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

TheKingElessar said:


> I disagree Arcane.
> 
> They have learned from the music and dvd industries that you can't compete with piracy by selling the same quality product for more than free.
> 
> ...


Well, if the music industry is an example, many people now buy from iTune what they can get for free... It's a matter of convenience (getting the actual song at an ok quality) and security.

I know I can get the PDFs for free. But sometimes the sites are iffy and my Norton is threatening dire things. I'd pay to get a nicely formatted PDF directly from the GW site. They just have to leave all the fluff and art sections out. This way people would still buy the physical copy (or the iPad, if they are the 6% of GW customer with an iPad - that' about the % in my "large" gaming group, 2 over 32).

This really look like some guy at GW got an iPad, showed it in a meeting and everyone went "Aaaaaahhhhhhhh". The geek in the back tried to tell them about multiple platforms and PCs and boring stuff like that. He was told to fetch coffee for the Cool Guy with an iPad...


Here's a nice example. Steve Raichlen, master chef of the BBQ, just published 5 "mini" books in e-format. One of them is free. They are all available on SEVEN differnt platforms (amazon, apple, sony, etc...). Sure, they don't have all those spinning images (who need those, really, when using a GAMING tool? Put them on the website, wasting time on the net is why miniature-porn exists). Now, I'm really happy with Steve Raichlen, because I got a free book, no matter what platform I'm using.

Phil


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

You're forgetting that GW don't see Codexes as purely 'gaming tools' and when they tried that approach (4th) were deeply unhappy with the results. So, no, that won't happen again for some time.


----------



## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> You're forgetting that GW don't see Codexes as purely 'gaming tools' and when they tried that approach (4th) were deeply unhappy with the results. So, no, that won't happen again for some time.


"Codexes don't need bells and whistles" is, I think, what boreas was trying to say with the gaming tool bit.

Fluff and miniature showcase are both very important to the appeal of an army. But why pay extra for something in a digital codex that you can already get online from the manufacterer (sp?) for free? (with the exception of which colors were used to paint what miniatures, of course, but I feel that's another argument for another day)


----------



## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Oh, but the codex, per se, is not purely a gaming tool and I wouldn't want those mini-dex to come back, In fact, a lot of the anger with the SoB mini-dex is the lack of additional fluff, etc (along with the, let's say, lackluster rules).

But the digital copy of the codex (and rule book) are almost purely gaming tools. I own all my codexes and I loved reading them with a nice beer in my lazyboy. But when I go playing somewhere and I have to browse through, possibly damage or even lose my codex, I always bring a printed copy of the PDF. I keep a copy of my codexes, and latest FAQs in a binder. These contain only the bare essential, like the very popular mini-rulebook... This is would have been a wonderful occasion for Games Workshop. At 5 pounds (or 8$...), I'm pretty sure those PDFs would have sold like hot cakes. Why bother trying to download the codex (no matter tracking it online) and getting a crappy copy of cellphone camera pictures? 

More than that, buy the physical copy of the codex and get a free download of the PDF... Players who care about their army (and 99% players do) will buy that nice color-pictures book, so just give them that PDF and put a smile on their face. Now, will that stop some people from copying, downlaoding the PDFs? No. But it really can't get worse than now. And even then, the more the rules run around as PDFs (either cheap via GW or illegally), the more those who read them will be tempted to buy the miniatures...

Not to mention another thing. Producing an interactive digital codex like that SM codex must be quite more costly. Whenever I bring about the fact that GW should devote more time fixing the FAQs by just reading a bit online, rooting out common questions, and adding them to the PDF, I get answered: time is money, that's too expensive!!! Now, taking the SM codex they already have and putting it on the web for 10$ OR adding a lot of gizmos that players will tire of (because, really, once you've seen the spinning model once or twice, showed them aroung, got a few "Aaaaahhhhh- Ooooohhhhh", you'll move around the the rules 99% of the time) and selling it for 10$ *more*, is it worth the expense?

Now, don't get me wrong. I've argued for GW getting into the digital age for years. I'm happy they're finally catching up. I just think they wen't about it the wrong way. It's like a city getting into public transportations, but buying a single lamborghini instead of a couple of buses. Sure, it's a lot nicer, but how many people will you get on board?

Phil


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Hahaha, love the analogy.

As for it costing more, I don't know about in Canada, but once the price rise hits over here it will cost exactly the same. Seems a no-brainer at that to me, if I had the requisite platform.


----------



## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Hum... Either I drank too much this weekend or something weird happened!? Codex: SM is 49.5 on GW Canada (31 pounds) and on iTunes it's 41.99 (26 pounds)!? I'm almost 100% positive it was 49.50 on iTunes this Saturday. I just took for granted that the Codex SM was the same price as the others (39.5$, here), but it's more expensive (because of the size, I guess). So it has gone from the same price to... less expensive!?

*freaked out* 

Now, I just have to buy a 600$ iPad 

phil


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Arcane said:


> And what is stopping people from doing this now? Nothing. So at least that way GW would make some money from it. Currently they make 0.


That's exactly what I'm saying. If they sold PDFs right off their site for a little less (at least) than the paper copies they'll easily make more than 0. 



TheKingElessar said:


> They have learned from the music and dvd industries that you can't compete with piracy by selling the same quality product for more than free.


Well obviously hey learned from the wrong industry. The video game industry figured that if conviant enough people will pay for a game rather than pirate it. I pay attention to the DRM wars and lots of people will pirate a game just because the DRM makes it a pain to play if they can play it at all.

GW doesn't even have to offer PDF or this iBook stuff honestly. If they has section of their website set up that you could log-in, buy, view, and print off bought codex pages that would be fine by me. Long as my phone could get on it too. 

Of course iTunes does seem to be doing well enough.



Adramalech said:


> "Codexes don't need bells and whistles" is, I think, what boreas was trying to say with the gaming tool bit.
> 
> Fluff and miniature showcase are both very important to the appeal of an army. But why pay extra for something in a digital codex that you can already get online from the manufacterer (sp?) for free? (with the exception of which colors were used to paint what miniatures, of course, but I feel that's another argument for another day)


This. I like fluff so I will read it. To play I need the stats for my ridiculous units, the point costs for my ridiculous units and the ridiculous rules to go with them. I dont see the point of paying extra doe turn arounds built into the codex. Hey are cool and all but all I need are te basics and chances are I'm printing out some of it.


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> I disagree Arcane.
> 
> They have learned from the music and dvd industries that you can't compete with piracy by selling the same quality product for more than free.
> 
> ...


People want a digital copy (most want it without needing to buy an iMaxipad). 

You could either go onto a website which has tons of viruses and download this thing, risking your ISP possibly contacting you, or let's say you could go download one from an account on GW for $5-10. I know I would pay for one, especially if it was a very high quality scan. So that's at least 1 scenario where GW would make more money than they do now. Hypothetically there are thousands more who feel the same, so for a small feature added to the GW store, they could be making tens to hundreds of thousands more than they are now. 

And for those who say the digital versions on codex take extra work or no longer exist don't know much about the printing industry. _Somewhere_ on a GW computer in Nottingham is a <300 DPI digital version of every codex which was printed.

From a business perspective, a five-six figure profit increase for something which would take less than 50 man hours is correct. Unfortunately, you are not.

And I have to agree with Phil.


----------



## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Adramalech said:


> "Codexes don't need bells and whistles" is, I think, what boreas was trying to say with the gaming tool bit.


As TKE says, when 4th Ed Codecies were released as just rules the format was not popular outside of people who mostly play; fluff aficionados and (more importantly) new entrants to the hobby found the lack of fluff and pretty pictures a real downside. So, form GWs PoV the rules are only part of what a Codex does.


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> As TKE says, when 4th Ed Codecies were released as just rules the format was not popular outside of people who mostly play; fluff aficionados and (more importantly) new entrants to the hobby found the lack of fluff and pretty pictures a real downside. So, form GWs PoV the rules are only part of what a Codex does.


I don't think anyone wants a stats only codex. Things like the 360 though fot instance is never something I look at while playing and if I do want to look at them (rare) I can on a bigger screen. So I'm not buying an iPad and paying extra for that. They don't need to remove it but I'm not going to run out and get one. In fact if I had to pay extra I would still probably buy a paper codex and scan in what I need to play anyway even if I did have said iDevice.

They need more than just rules, but I'm not terribly interested in this just yet. Maybe later.


----------



## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Well, possibly they should stop calling it a codex :wink: GW should have gone with:

GW NEWSLETTER:



> "Digital Gaming aid"
> 
> GW introduces "Digital Gaming aids"! DGA (deegees, for short) are a great new tool to help you get into Warhammer fast and easy! Tired of bringing around that extra pile of books? Tired of getting soda and chips on your nice, hardcover codex? Now, on any format, you can get a DGA! Your DGA will contain all the basic rules to play that army you love so much!
> 
> ...


----------



## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

I wish they had gone with an internal service tied in with their website and your GW account. A browser based system where you can buy books to add to your account and open them online, nothing downloadable. This would require internet access to view your books, but it would allow you to use ANY internet device. It would be secure because files are not being downloaded. The site can tell if your logged in, so multiple devices cannot be logged on at the same time.

My thought is something similar to Battlefield 3 on the PC. It runs through an online/offline platform called Origin developed by EA games. Origin is just a log-in method where you launch your games from, like Steam from Valve which started with the Half Life products. The game itself, Battlefield 3, is managed on a web browser: Battlelog. Of course it wouldn't work the exactly the same, but it is a great template.

But why stop there? 

I think a very different and interesting approach would be as follows:
1) Make all content digital
2) Develop an app for major OS (Apple, Windows, Android)
3) Make ALL digital content *FREE*, but...
4) Charge a monthly fee for access to *ALL* the content.

How often do we buy a codex? Personally, I have bought 2 codex and one rule book in the past 5 years. That's about $130 in book content. so $26 a year from me. I know a lot of people change armies more frequently and might get more (or A LOT more) books than I have, but thats not really the point of this. Lets say you spend twice as much as I have, so lets round to $50 a year on book content. What if GW had this service and charged... $5 a month for access to start. That's already $60 a year and over twice what I give them for books. But you do get more, ALL of the GW content for no additional price including future updates, releases, additions, etc. The fee would have to account for development of future GW content and the development/maintenance of the application itself. It may seem silly, but I don't know a single person that I game with that buys more than 1 codex a year, if any at all. Like I said before though, everyone is different. The flat fee for all content would average it out because some people would be spending less and some people would be spending more on a year-to-year basis. 

Now what type of good things does this do for GW? Well, other than getting more money from me a year, it would help build and strengthen the community. New-comers would be able to catch-up on all the fluff quickly because all of the information is available to them. GW can upload other content like a newsletter and daily/weekly articles. They can make additions to content like they currently make in White Dwarf. It could evolve into a social media where gamers can stay in touch and organize events with their local stores. Event calendars can be created. You could have profiles and status when your available for a challenge. With all content being available, it is more likely that person would become interested in a new army. It would become more attractive for people to build a lot of smaller armies and then expand on the ones they like the most. All you would have to get is the models. No shipping, no international pricing or related taxes, less material used for physical books, greener company.

The variable could always differ. Maybe $10 a month. Maybe $5 a month and cheap addition costs per piece of content (like $5 for a codex). 

To clarify again: this would be content accessed through an account and an application. Downloads would have to be a secure format (not PDF or something universal) and they would not go onto your device as individual files. The download would be attached to your account and only accessed through your account. This could be an online/offline application that required internet access to download/update content and access the community areas, but then the downloads would be available through the program offline just like Itunes, Amazon, Blockbuster, Kindle, etc. 

Its not Itunes, its WarDocs.

This would be my dream community for GW because it makes it easy for players, easy for GW to update and release content, and it will help the community grow.

Sorry if it feels like I was rushing, because I was. Too many ideas flowing through my brain and I had to get them down. So please don't bash all the details, just think of the big picture of such a service.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I find that strange, desolatemm, because most players I know buy at least every other codex, afaik, and personally I have bought, since 5th came out, 6 of them.


----------



## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

TheKingElessar said:


> I find that strange, desolatemm, because most players I know buy at least every other codex, afaik, and personally I have bought, since 5th came out, 6 of them.


5th edition was out for how long? 4-5 years? so 6 codex and a rule book over 4 years is still about $60 a year, same as $5 a month, and lets just say you are on the top end of the average. That means everyone below that amount is paying more than they would have spent otherwise (like myself). I strongly believe it would flatten out into a profit. Then the people who usually buy EVERY codex would be happy and get their content for a better price. Meanwhile a new-comer would have access to every armies rules and fluff and get into the hobby and the game much easier. You can can learn the rules for the different armies and that would facilitate faster and smoother games for new comers.

Created a poll here: How many codices have you purchased in the past 5 year?


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

4 years. At present prices here in the UK, that's £120 for the Codexes, and £45 for the BRB, except I bought AoBR for mine.

If we assume that expenditure though, that's £165 in 4 years, is £40 a year, is only £3 a month, so I suppose your point is correct that they could make more profit that way, on the face of it.


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Desolatemm said:


> I wish they had gone with an internal service tied in with their website and your GW account. A browser based system where you can buy books to add to your account and open them online, nothing downloadable. This would require internet access to view your books, but it would allow you to use ANY internet device. It would be secure because files are not being downloaded. The site can tell if your logged in, so multiple devices cannot be logged on at the same time.


This is exactly what I was thinking. As long as you can print off the needed pages for gaming this would be perfect. With the right plugins it could all be web based or they could develop an application, though I'm not sure GW would go that far. Not sure I would pay for access to armies I don't play, not enough Lamborghini money sitting around, but still, being able to at least buy what I needed would be perfect. Monthly subscriptions could be useful if you could just buy one for a release month to get to know the new book so you know what to expect too.



TheKingElessar said:


> I find that strange, desolatemm, because most players I know buy at least every other codex, afaik, and personally I have bought, since 5th came out, 6 of them.


I've bought two and neither since 5th came out :laugh:

Though I do get bits and pieces of the books I play against. Never get a short game with any of my friends though oddly. Oh well.


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Never saw a reason to buy a codex to an army I don't play so I only have 3. With Army builder and PDFs it's easy to learn about other armies you will be facing without buying another book.


----------



## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Desolatemm's suggestion does have merits.

However I can foresee a huge amount of rage based on people having to pay monthly when the BRB and their Codex have not been updated for years.


----------



## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> Desolatemm's suggestion does have merits.
> 
> However I can foresee a huge amount of rage based on people having to pay monthly when the BRB and their Codex have not been updated for years.


GW might still do it (they haven't made a whole lot of business sense as far as I'm aware) and I'm sure someone somewhere will pay for it.

I think individually-bought PDFs are a better idea both in terms of having a larger demographic than "idexes" (the new word I just made up for codexes on the apple ipad) and being MUCH cheaper to GW -and- to the consumer.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

GW considers the idex (great word!) to be of great quality, however, and that is their prime motivating factor. People will pay more for better quality goods, this is always the case, recession or no.


----------



## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Yes, for an item of quality, people will pay more. But for a cheap convenient item, more people will pay  When in recession, like now, I sell more of my (relatively) cheaper cosmetics (I own a drugstore). Big stores tend to see their sales fall...

So, if income-wise, (less people X pay more) = (more people X pay less), the second proposition has the merit of making more customers happy. The first proposition, though, has the merit of being a nice marketing stunt when shown to stockholders 

edit: I've been thinking about desoltemm's proposition, and while it has merit, I just can't get over the fact that I like to own something I pay for. It doesn't have to be a physical thing, but at the very least something I can print in the case of documents. Jo so I can still use it if my connection to the net is impossible for some reason.

re-edit: Come to think about it, I've got another reason to be reluctant about the iPad/iPhone platform. I've found that those can get quite distracting while gaming. In my turn, I'd have opponents check their email, or download the latest movie trailer "just to show me...", etc... I've asked this opponent (which is my best friend!) to cut back on iStuff use while gaming.

Phil


----------



## andrewm9 (Aug 21, 2008)

TheKingElessar said:


> GW considers the idex (great word!) to be of great quality, however, and that is their prime motivating factor. People will pay more for better quality goods, this is always the case, recession or no.


I think it is of better quality, but I already own a physical copy and am not in a hurry to run out and buy an Ipad just to get one. If it weren't Ipad only and worked on other platforms I might have purchased one. There is a reason I don't have an Ipad and this simply isn't a big deal enough to go and get one.


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

boreas said:


> re-edit: Come to think about it, I've got another reason to be reluctant about the iPad/iPhone platform. I've found that those can get quite distracting while gaming. In my turn, I'd have opponents check their email, or download the latest movie trailer "just to show me...", etc... I've asked this opponent (which is my best friend!) to cut back on iStuff use while gaming.
> 
> Phil


I had a friend doing that. He was looking up 40k related things and we had several players but if he wasn't rolling he was surfing. Annoying.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

The problem with it is releasing the iDex for the iPad when they really should release the iDontGiveAfuck


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

boreas said:


> re-edit: Come to think about it, I've got another reason to be reluctant about the iPad/iPhone platform. I've found that those can get quite distracting while gaming. In my turn, I'd have opponents check their email, or download the latest movie trailer "just to show me...", etc... I've asked this opponent (which is my best friend!) to cut back on iStuff use while gaming.
> 
> Phil


I had a friend doing that. He was looking up 40k related things and we had several players but if he wasn't rolling he was surfing. Annoying.


----------



## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

So typical... SM has their codex up... nobody else does though.. lol


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

What didn't you read the subtitle on the BRB? Space Marines (and these other guys).


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

It's not that surprising they went for Apple, the studio has maybe two PCs in it, and all the formatting and pre-production is done on Macs. 

Annoying though, but understandable.


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Meh, I spent several years in graphics arts universities and all that hype about Mac being better for design is false. I believe Mac enters into agreements with design schools, gives them better deals for their computer labs and in turn hypes up their own product. 

There is nothing a Mac graphic designer can do with his computer that I can't do with my Windows 7 PC and Cintiq tablet.


----------



## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Arcane said:


> There is nothing a Mac graphic designer can do with his computer that I can't do with my Windows 7 PC and Cintiq tablet.


Very true. I finally convinced my girlfriend this. She is a graphic design major as well. She was able to get a screaming good Laptop (i7, 6gb ram, dedicate Nvidia card, high res/large monitor), bamboo drawing pad, precision mouse, and a Cannon T3i all for about the same price as an equivalent mac book pro. 

Adobe is fully capable on both OS and thats all that really matters.



Arcane said:


> I believe Mac enters into agreements with design schools, gives them better deals for their computer labs and in turn hypes up their own product.


This.
The point that finally put turn my girlfriend away from mac for design was this situation:
I called her University's Graphic Design program director asking about the program they offer, pretending to be interested in enrolling. I said "I see on the program's website that you require mac computers..."

He replied "That is correct, Mac computers are the dominate and superior platform for design work and all major companies use Macs. This is why we require, or at least strongly recommend, that our students purchase Mac computers."

"The thing is, I just bought a $2,000 high-end PC laptop and an Adobe Suit. As a college student, I would not be able to afford a mac book in addition" I responded.

"I see, why did you go with a PC if your interested in a design major?" he asked

I explained "I needed a computer that could use various programs that are only compatible with Windows. On top of that, I play certain video games that are only compatible with Windows. I also noticed that every University I have researched mainly deal with Adobe products such as InDesign, Photoshop, Flash, and Illustrator. All of these programs are equally available on Windows. Adobe does not favor one OS over the other as far as I can tell... If I use a Windows computer to complete the program at your University, will I be hindered in any way? Will I not be able to complete certain assignment or classes?"

He paused. "Your laptop will not hinder you from going through the program. The layout will just appear a little different in the Adobe programs. All the functionality will be available to you."

"Will I be losing any valuable information if I use my laptop?" I asked.

"No, the only thing you will miss is getting used to the mac OS." he answered.

"But all of the computers in the design labs are mac correct?" I pressed.

"...yes they are"

"So I can use my laptop, not get a mac, and still learn the mac OS in class, without losing any functionality or suffering any hindrance in classes?"

"yes"

"Thank you"

click.

With that, I want to say that I am an Apple fan. I believe they definitely have their place in the world, but I hate when people, companies, groups say that one is better than the other. IMO they have different applications. Nothing beats an iMac for the kitchen table or an iPod for music. Technology is very situational.


----------



## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

> It's not that surprising they went for Apple


This is no different that most other companies, as much as android is growing, most apps still appear for apple first before android.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Mac OS is preferable for working on with mutiple programmes, as well as hosting a lot of exclusive software like Final Cut Pro and Pro Tools. PCs are fine though


----------



## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Ok, 11 pages later I think I am up to date here.

First, it is good to see GW getting into digital, it is a good step, Desolatemm I think has a better way to distribute it, more work I would guess, but a more universal approach. The Apple route was likely just easy.

On security, anyone with half a brain can steal android stuff (not that I do, but I easily could), it is more difficult with Apple stuff, this means the decision is likely also to have some basis in security of format.
Now before I get flamed on the "but they would still sell pdfs if they made them" argument, let's look at a theoretical situation:

Two people on tablet codecies in a GW store, one is an ipad, the other is any non-Apple device.

At present (with ipad release) the GW store manager can kick the person out with the non-apple device as they can't possibly be using a legal copy of the codex?

If there were pdfs about, and as they are non-secure or breakable if secure then it puts GW in a difficult situation, they have to assume that any pdf copy is a legal one, so if that is the case why would anyone ever buy one?

It would be like the anti-piracy police targetting people with mp3 players and demanding they show their right to have an mp3 copy.
The best way to secure digital copies is at source, Apple have a very controllable source so are likely to get things first - this is ignoring all the other benefits the Apple brand brings.
From GWs perspective, I would guess that straight pdf files are not worth the costs to them, alternative formats maybe and lets hope that they do something for the android and Windows people out there, subscription would sound like the best option to me = people pay vast sub fees for online gaming so why not tabletop (so long as updates are fast and frequent).

Before you commence flaming, this comes from someone who intends to buy a Samsung tab, has a Samsung phone and will not be buying an ipad, but would love to own digital copies of the books.


----------



## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

:goodpost: That all makes perfect sense. GW has taken a baby-step into the digital world and apple does offer a more-secure means of controlling and distributing it. Clean, easy, and overpriced, but it does make sense. 

The most secure way would have been to develop their own format that is only usable through their own program/application that has to be purchased via subscription. This would give them complete control, something GW likes to have correct?


----------

