# Doom by Deamon Weapon



## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

For all you Chaos S[ace Marine players out there
i hope u have enjoyed the pleasure of tearing enemies apart with some type of deamon weapon

Well for all 5 types i was wondering which mark would go best with a deamon weapon for which armies you are going up against

for example: when going up against an army with a majority of high toughnesses would it be better to use a DW with no mark for the added strength or have a mark of nurgle for always wounding on a 4+???


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## Allos (Nov 5, 2007)

Out of the Demon weapons My fav is Nurgle, since it can wound big guys on a 4+, but can also get you re-roll to wounds on marines or less. Second would be Undivided.


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

wait y do u get to re-roll on marines?


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## Ferik (Nov 5, 2008)

Check out PG 42 in the BRB on poisoned weapons.


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

My personal favorite is the Bloodfeeder. It goes on my Khorne Lord with wings, and usually deepstrikes with a squad of raptors, and a Chaos Lord w/lightning claws w/jump pack. The turn after the raptors and attached lords land, I'll split the wing lord off, he goes after one squad, while the raptors and LC lord go after another. I like that weapon, and yeah, it may bite you instead, but wow, when it works, it mulches squads...

Next favorite, the Tzeentch weapon. I sit him back as mid range support, usually attached to a squad of Tzeentch termies equipped with combi meltas, power weapons, and 1 reaper w/chainfist. They serve as a threat response team, gunning down even heavy infantry (thanks mostly to the daemon weapon), or to bust a tank/transport that has wandered too close.


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## Wolfgang_Molder (Mar 3, 2008)

i am actually a fan of the slaanesh one, give the guy wings or a jump pack and he can eat characters pretty easily in CC


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

I'd say any Daemon Prince is better than Any Lord with any Daemon Weapon


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

What I find is a nice tag-team is Daemon prince with MoT + Bolt of Tzeentch + Doombolt, with a Termie-Slaanesh sorcerer + familiar with Lash and Warptime. Sorcerer moves the guys closer in, then the Daemon prince blasts them (with re-rolls on to hit and to wound in shooting and CC) , and finally the duo whack the hell out of them in CC. Then they move on. It's really very mean


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Concrete Hero said:


> I'd say any Daemon Prince is better than Any Lord with any Daemon Weapon


Probably, but that's besides the point here.

Personally I'm a nurgle fan. Daemon weapon that can take down MCs and reroll wounds on marines is really nice, and goes with +1 toughness for the lord. Put him on a bike as well and he's toughness 6 with plenty of killy goodness, a nightmare for marines who left the power fists at home.


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## Lopspoon (Jun 23, 2009)

I am a big fan of the Bloodfeeder, partially because the fluff of it.. imagine the essence of a Bloodthister in a sword ... and also because it lets a Chaos Lord hit 10 times with it on average and gives him the possibility of getting 17 attacks on the charge.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

I like the Slaanesh one, I dunno, it's just cool.
But in my opinion the Blood Feeder is worthless, actually making a lord WORSE.
It has a 30% chance of hurting him, AND stopping him attacking at all, it's a major gamble!


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

yea true but if u get it right which is a lot more likely to happen it is devastating
and the slaneesh 1 is only good against units with multiple wounds like a winged lord with a MoS DW is striking first and just as deadly perfect for killing ICs


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

xCr0okz- said:


> yea true but if u get it right which is a lot more likely to happen it is devastating
> and the slaneesh 1 is only good against units with multiple wounds like a winged lord with a MoS DW is striking first and just as deadly perfect for killing ICs


That's just it, IF you get it right, but 1/3 it will fail.
That's basically, considering how many points you're investing, rolling a D6, and on a 1-2 you lose the combat.

And the Blissgiver _does_ excel against multi-wound models, that's why you give him a bike, mount, or wings and go for their commanders.
But even if there aren't any multi-wounds models around, it's still 2-6 extra attacks with a power weapons at initiative 6, for only 45 points (30 more than giving him only a power weapon).

By the way, I didn't understand a word of that last sentence, it doesn't even have a full stop.


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

yea im not using a lot of grammer when im writing these, my bad
and yea thats all true but a lord is already has a high initiative
so personally my favorite is the MoN DW always wound on a 4+ and u get to re-roll


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

and on the bloodfeeder its still a 1/6 chance of hitting yourself
but 17 power weapon attacks on the charge is a possibility im willing to take risks for


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

xCr0okz- said:


> and on the bloodfeeder its still a 1/6 chance of hitting yourself
> but 17 power weapon attacks on the charge is a possibility im willing to take risks for


Your math is incorrect.

If EITHER die rolls a one, he hurts himself and loses combat.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

LordWaffles said:


> Your math is incorrect.
> 
> If EITHER die rolls a one, he hurts himself and loses combat.


Precisely, it works out to roughly 30.44444% chance of happening.
Still like it?


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

whatever 
u still have a greater chance of doing something devastating to your opponent
i used a Plaguebringer today in a tourney and totally wiped the floor with a SM player
and i dont get how u have a roughly 30% chance u have to roll a 1 which is a 1/6 chance
the if u double it u still only have a 1 in 6 chance


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

xCr0okz- said:


> whatever
> u still have a greater chance of doing something devastating to your opponent
> i used a Plaguebringer today in a tourney and totally wiped the floor with a SM player
> and i dont get how u have a roughly 30% chance u have to roll a 1 which is a 1/6 chance
> the if u double it u still only have a 1 in 6 chance


You DON'T roll one!
You roll 2D6, it says that, 2D6 instead of 1D6.
Not 1D6 and double it.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

xCr0okz- said:


> whatever
> u still have a greater chance of doing something devastating to your opponent
> i used a Plaguebringer today in a tourney and totally wiped the floor with a SM player
> and i dont get how u have a roughly 30% chance u have to roll a 1 which is a 1/6 chance
> the if u double it u still only have a 1 in 6 chance


I had to open an entire thesaurus in order to find a word befitting this post.

After about an hour, I settled on "Insufferable"

Use daemon princes. Greater threat range.


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

thank you waffles
and yes i knew that you roll 2d6 thats y i said that if u double it it shouldnt make a dif!!!
i just dont see how the percentage changes because you roll 2d6
and also im glad that u have so many more important things to do in your life than to look for a word for an hour to insult me on this forum:smoke:


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

xCr0okz- said:


> thank you waffles
> and yes i knew that you roll 2d6 thats y i said that if u double it it shouldnt make a dif!!!
> i just dont see how the percentage changes because you roll 2d6
> and also im glad that u have so many more important things to do in your life than to look for a word for an hour to insult me on this forum:smoke:


You've clearly failed to understand me here.
You DO NOT double a D6 for it, you roll two separate dice and add them together.
If EITHER of them turns up with a 1, you get hurt and don't attack; which is an 11/36 chance, or in percentage, roughly 30%.
Normally the chance for rolling a 1 on 1D6 is 1/6 or 16.666%, but because you're rolling two dice the chance increases.

Understand now?


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

Listen winter i no that you roll 2d6
ive been using the bloodfeeder for a while when i said double it i was talking about the odds of a 1/6
so please quit trippin over spilt milk
and necroboy at the top of the tactics thread list there is a tab that says new thread just click on it


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

xCr0okz- said:


> Listen winter i no that you roll 2d6
> ive been using the bloodfeeder for a while when i said double it i was talking about the odds of a 1/6
> so please quit trippin over spilt milk


But you're wrong, and you're barely even making sense.
Here's how it works.

With a normal Daemon weapon.
Attacks come around, you roll a single D6, and add that to your regular attacks value, that is the number of attacks you get.
If that D6 turns up a 1, you make no attacks and suffer a wound.

With the Bloodfeeder, you roll two separate D6, and add them together, and then add that value to your attacks.
If EITHER of those turns up a 1, you make no attacks and suffer a wound.


Now, if you don't understand from this, I really don't know what's going on in your head, but just for clarity here's another way of putting it.


With a regular daemon weapon, the possible outcomes are:

1 - You suffer a wound.
2 - You add 2 to your attacks.
3 - You add 3 to your attacks.
4 - You add 4 to your attacks.
5 - You add 5 to your attacks.
6 - You add 6 to your attacks.


With the Bloodfeeder, the list is a hell of a lot longer, being 36 possible outcomes, 11 of which hurt you.

1, 1 - You suffer a wound.
1, 2 - You suffer a wound.
1, 3...6 - Same thing as the above two.
2, 1 - You suffer a wound.
2, 2 - You add 4 to your attacks.
2, 3...6 - You add X to your attacks.
3, 1 - You suffer a wound.
3, 2...6 - You add X to your attacks.
4, 1 - You suffer a wound.
4, 2...6 - You add X to your attacks.
5, 1 - You suffer a wound.
5, 2...6 - You add X to your attacks.
6, 1 - You suffer a wound.
6, 2...6 - You add X to your attacks.

Now, I've skipped some and added in ... to represent 'from X to Y', so that's FAR from the full list.
But you _should_ get the picture now.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

To make it a little easier on the math. The chance that you will get a 1 on the first or second die, is equal to 1 - the chance you don't roll a 1 on either.
So 1 - (chance you don't roll a 1 on the first die * chance you don't roll a 1 on the second die )
Which is in numbers 1 - 5/6 * 5/6 = 1 - 25/36 = 11/36 = 30.6%


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

alright alright
damn i truly dont care about the numbers and winterous please its not such a big deal
im glad i now know this information, but its not the point of this thread 

now what mark do u suggest to use with a DW, or which weapon do u suggest giving a Chaos lord???


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

xCr0okz- said:


> alright alright
> damn i truly dont care about the numbers and winterous please its not such a big deal
> im glad i now know this information, but its not the point of this thread
> 
> now what mark do u suggest to use with a DW, or which weapon do u suggest giving a Chaos lord???


You should care, you thought that the Bloodfeeder carried the same risk as a normal Daemon weapon, which it certainly does not.

But which one you want to use is really up to you, and should depend on the rest of your army and how you use the lord.

Like shooting with lots of heavy weapons?
Give him the Deathscreamer, it's a pretty good gun, and also acts as a Daemon weapon in close-combat.

Fight lots of elite multi-wound units like Tau Battlesuits and Ork Nobs?
Blissgiver is ideal for them, especially if you don't have the firepower to instant-kill them with guns.

Fight hordes of infantry, and don't have a decent model count to deal with them?
Bloodfeeder is great, just have him with a backup squad because it's prone to failure.

Not sure what you'll fight? Have a pretty well balanced army?
Both the unmarked and Nurgle weapons are great options against anything.

Unmarked is +1S, so it works well against marines, tough things like Ogryn, can do some fair damage to Monstrous Creatures, and can damage vehicles ok as well.

Plaguebringer is 4+ to wound, and you get to reroll that against things with Toughness 4 or less, so a 75% chance to wound normal infantry.
The Plaguebringer is pretty much better than the unmarked one, because against anything over toughness 2 you have an equal or better chance of wounding, but you do need to pay for the mark as well, and it's less good against vehicles (not really an issue).


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

yeah i also like the added toughness bonus
but if you stick him in a squad it would have to be plague marines or CSMs with MoN
because your opponent rolls on majority


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

*edit*
Failed, ignore this.


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## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

Crooks
:flashing lights: *Newsflash* :flashing lights:
The following are _not_ endangered! -
-Capital Letters
-Full Stops
-Commas
-Apostraphes (can't be bothered checking if you're short on these)
-Tyranids
-Alsations

Please keep this in mind.:wink: 'Cause seriously it's hard to understand even _half_ of what you're saying.


To the original topic! I personally favour the Khorne lord on J'naught with bloodfeeder. That's right my poor little space marine assault squad, you're about to suffer one shitload of S5 power weapon attacks. And you probably won't be alive to hit back. 
I have uncanny luck with dice.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

xCr0okz- said:


> yeah i also like the added toughness bonus
> but if you stick him in a squad it would have to be plague marines or CSMs with MoN
> because your opponent rolls on majority


Please note that the mod team does not tolerate the kind of crappy writing on display here.

It doesn't help that you are wrong about the rules. ICs are targetted seperately in CC, so your opponent has to roll against his real toughness. He won't be shot much anyway if he's in a unit. Therefore he's quite happy to be in any unit he can legally join, at least as far as tactics and rules go.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Someguy said:


> Please note that the mod team does not tolerate the kind of crappy writing on display here.
> 
> It doesn't help that you are wrong about the rules. ICs are targetted seperately in CC, so your opponent has to roll against his real toughness. He won't be shot much anyway if he's in a unit. Therefore he's quite happy to be in any unit he can legally join, at least as far as tactics and rules go.


Agreed, Grammar is a wonderful thing, use it.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Deus Mortis said:


> What I find is a nice tag-team is Daemon prince with MoT + Bolt of Tzeentch + Doombolt, with a Termie-Slaanesh sorcerer + familiar with Lash and Warptime. Sorcerer moves the guys closer in, then the Daemon prince blasts them (with re-rolls on to hit and to wound in shooting and CC) , and finally the duo whack the hell out of them in CC. Then they move on. It's really very mean


Wait what?

How does your DP get rerolls to hit and wound if your sorc casted the spell? It's not for the squad, its for the sorcerer isn't it?


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## ArmoredGhost (Aug 18, 2008)

Correct Crimzzen The DPrince needs WTime as well for rerolls.


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

Ok fine, for everyone out there I will take my time and try to make my posts legible. Someguy when I said that you would need to stick him in a squad of plague marines or a CSM squad with mark of Nurgle, I meant for purposes of rolling to wound them during shooting. Because we all know that you roll against the majority of the units toughness, and therefore any other squad he would be attached to would negate his mark bonus(for shooting only). Also I have recently switched from a chaos lord in termi-armor with a deamon weapon, to the increasingly more useful DP. I have had quite a lot of luck using him equipped with LoS and Wings. The only problem I have is that I'm not to sure which squad to throw him into, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

There I hope that you all at least slightly approve of this post, and problems should be reported to my email at [email protected].

Thank you all, and have a wonderful day.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Daemon princes can't join units, they're Monstrous Creatures.


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

Oh yeah huh, sorry about that I totally forgot. So what are your suggestions for getting deamon princes into battle with fairly positive results most of the time. I'm asking because I just recently purchased a DP from a friend which has been very nicely converted. I will post a picture of it once I am done painting it, because it looks AWESOME!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

'Kay, why don't we all stop playing "pile on xCr0okz-" now? When the mods warn someone about something, there's no need to throw your two cents in.



xCr0okz- said:


> Oh yeah huh, sorry about that I totally forgot. So what are your suggestions for getting deamon princes into battle with fairly positive results most of the time. I'm asking because I just recently purchased a DP from a friend which has been very nicely converted. I will post a picture of it once I am done painting it, because it looks AWESOME!


Depending on the Mark of the Prince, it can be worth it to simply have him hide behind a Rhino. If he takes the Mark of Tzeentch it's not really worth it since your Invulnerable save will give you the same measure of protection, but all the other Princes benefit greatly from 4+ cover saves. Alternatively, you can just use a Land Raider, give it Possession and drive it straight at the enemy. Your Prince can use the 'Raider as a gigantic moving wall. With smoke launchers, the Land Raider shouldn't need to worry much about enemy fire, so you should easily make it to the enemy with your Prince and whatever nastiness you decide to stick in the Land Raider.


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

Thank you katie I'm glad someone finally seems to be on my side. I was thinking of giving my DP wings, are there any other suggestion that you might suggest as to which mark and psychic ability to give him.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

xCr0okz- said:


> Thank you katie I'm glad someone finally seems to be on my side. I was thinking of giving my DP wings, are there any other suggestion that you might suggest as to which mark and psychic ability to give him.


Since when was anyone AGAINST you?

The psychic power and mark should be your decision, play with it a bit, try all of them, see what you like.

If you want straight combat, Khorne, duh.
If you want a solid core for your army, taking a lot of effort to kill and dishing out some serious pain, the Tzeench does the trick (remember, Monstrous Creatures can fire 2 weapons every turn).
I'm not really sure Slaanesh has much use other than to take Lash though.


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

A DP can take multiple psychic powers right? So with the MoT what powers would u recommend? I'm thinking about warptime, but as to the other power I'm blank.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

xCr0okz- said:


> A DP can take multiple psychic powers right? So with the MoT what powers would u recommend? I'm thinking about warptime, but as to the other power I'm blank.


Well you could take Bolt of Tzeench and Doombolt, for a fairly solid firebase.
Although Doombolt isn't that good.
Maybe Bolt and Wind of Chaos?
That gives him some anti-vehicle and STRONG anti-infantry.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Warptime and Wind of Chaos should do nicely since you get to reroll failed To Wound rolls for the Wind as well.


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