# honestly....the imperium couldn't conquer us



## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

i mean would we really all shiver in fear if we saw a squad of space marines approaching us?

i think we could hold off 40k imperium

i think even pre-heresy we could hold off an imperium invasion (earth) and thats counting a walking emperor and 18 primarch strong..... we have superior weapons....


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Really? And do tell how we might be able to counter or defend against space vessels capable of orbital bombardment?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

There has been so so so so so many threads about this.

The greatest military power on this earth can't even put down a bunch of goat herders running around with AK's and bolt action rifles. What chance do we have against a crusade fleet with legions of genetically engineered killing machines and oh yeah... virus bombs...

What defence do we have against the weapons deployed against the loyalists on Isstvan 3? Nothing, zero, zip, nada, naught, Sweet FA.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Let's not even bring Marines, or Sisters of Battle into this. Let's bring the fact that there are more Guardsman in the Imperium *period* than there are people on the _entire planet_. They'd win through attrition _alone_.


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

Hey its sweet you are creating so many new discussion threads but i think you need to read up on fluff a bit more.
Now to answer your question. Earth would get subdued within maybe 2 hours of Imperial deployment. Space marine armor can take shot's from largest caliber HMG like it ain't no thang. Warlord Titans with their void shields can take 30k nuclear weaponry like a sneeze on face. We are so far behind technologically that its not even funny. Imperial guard faced horrors so terrible, anything that humanity has would just pale in comparison. A single space marine chapter would be more than enough to take over Earth, I'm pretty sure our heaviest tank weaponry wouldn't be enough to pierce land raiders armor.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

oh yeah. if thinking we are so strong is helping you at sleeping at night, go on. Otherwise, think twice. We have a pletora of governments, unable to cooperate in the most calm situation, imagine how many will turn "traitor" within the first hour of fighting. Imagine how many of the 3rd world countryes would just embrace the new masters only to get some revenge. Imagine how paranoid and schizo would the petty and unprepared governements of usa, russia and china would become, trying to save their own nation, maybe negotiating or simply going full nuclear mayhem on the invaders, pissing them off with a badly displayed contempt and silly ideas of victory against all odds... i just hope to be kidnapped by some Slaaneshi cult and enjoy my life a little before the hammer of the emperor hit our puny planet on neck and balls, without even need to disembark from orbit.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

darkreever said:


> Really? And do tell how we might be able to counter or defend against space vessels capable of orbital bombardment?


We can all hide in chuck norris's beard till they run out of juice then boom his extra beard fist will shoot out and blam the imperium is gone


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## The Irish Commissar (Jan 31, 2012)

We would be hammered no doubt about it. But are guns seem to be just as good as an auto gun in 40k. And I would consider a heavy bolter as good as are hmg's.Also their missile launchers don't look to be better then ours. But then they have bolters and lascannons and terminator armour. So ye we're fucked


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## lokyar (Apr 24, 2011)

how to counter orbital ships: nuke 'em, we have thousands of the damn things, might as well use 'em


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

The Irish Commissar said:


> And I would consider a heavy bolter as good as are hmg's.


Think an RPG that fires 180 rounds per minute and you're probably a bit closer. A single bolt shell can kill *groups* of unarmoured humans.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Ok.....


So, um, where so I sign to betray my planet and join the IG....?


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## Kettu (Nov 20, 2007)

lokyar said:


> how to counter orbital ships: nuke 'em, we have thousands of the damn things, might as well use 'em


Won't work.

Without going into breaching Void Shields, or the ship's armour, or hitting anything vital...
How would you get it up there? We don't have surface to space missiles or rockets. (For military purpose)
There is absolutely no way we could ever deliver a warhead via rocket with anything even vaguely approaching accuracy.


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

Kettu said:


> Won't work.
> 
> Without going into breaching Void Shields, or the ship's armour, or hitting anything vital...
> How would you get it up there? We don't have surface to space missiles or rockets. (For military purpose)
> There is absolutely no way we could ever deliver a warhead via rocket with anything even vaguely approaching accuracy.


Even if we could get it there and not just one but all of them, they would just shoot them down before they can even get to the void shields which they would never pierce and then the armor. If combined we have about 3k nukes, and lets say we have double of that in "secret" what do we do after we shoot them all and cause not even a scratch.


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

You guys are thinking about this completely the wrong way. We don't need to use any military force to defeat the imperium, we'll just send GW legal at them.

As soon as they see the first sign of a thunderhawk gunship, their IP infringement addled brains will go into meltdown - they'll smash everything out of the sky with cease and desist letters.


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## lokyar (Apr 24, 2011)

Stormxlr said:


> If combined we have about 3k nukes, and lets say we have double of that in "secret" what do we do after we shoot them all and cause not even a scratch.


we have closer to 30k nukes then 3k nukes Storm, and nukes WILL hurt. Void shields will stop maybe 1 nuke but then they will be busted.
and YES we can throw nukes into space, they have enough range for that.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Varakir said:


> You guys are thinking about this completely the wrong way. We don't need to use any military force to defeat the imperium, we'll just send GW legal at them.
> 
> As soon as they see the first sign of a thunderhawk gunship, their IP infringement addled brains will go into meltdown - they'll smash everything out of the sky with cease and desist letters.


Because that never backfires on GW.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

lokyar said:


> we have closer to 30k nukes then 3k nukes Storm, and nukes WILL hurt. Void shields will stop maybe 1 nuke but then they will be busted.
> and YES we can throw nukes into space, they have enough range for that.


You do know how a nuclear missile works right?

Anything with the power to reach that high isn't going to have a chance of hitting an orbiting ship.

Anything that can hit an orbiting ship isn't going to have the punch to hurt it.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/02/20/satellite.shootdown/

http://www.howstuffworks.com/shoot-down-satellite.htm

We can shoot shit that is in orbit, but the impression I have gotten from books is the shit that would be orbiting us makes the word Massive a understatement.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

scscofield said:


> http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/02/20/satellite.shootdown/
> 
> http://www.howstuffworks.com/shoot-down-satellite.htm
> 
> We can shoot shit that is in orbit, but the impression I have gotten from books is the shit that would be orbiting us makes the word Massive a understatement.


So...

You're understanding the part that a fighter isn't going to be carrying a huge warhead right?

The way I see it is this. Sure a fighter can carry a nuke but is it going to be carrying a warhead capable of piercing a shield?

Secondly you're overestimating what a nuclear weapon does in space. Since there's no air the shock wave is non existent and without an atmosphere the fireball burns out fast.


Seriously am I the only person who reads this shit.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

scscofield said:


> but the impression I have gotten from books is the shit that would be orbiting us makes the word Massive a understatement.


Hell, even if we managed to blow imperial ships out of orbit imagine the damage they would do on impact. That ship in _Know No Fear_ ringing any bells for anyone?


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Even if they did manage to bring down the ships, they'd just send an even bigger force later on, with Space Marines. The Imperial Guard and Imperium in general works on a war of attrition...

Or they would just declare exterminatus. Probably more cost effective since there is nothing here they would actually need to make another invasion force worth it.


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

@lokyar http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons where did you get your 30k nukes from? Void shields can take a nuke hit, also nuclear weaponry is not as effective in space as they show in movies, no air so no fireball and no shockwave. And what does radiation matter to environmentally sealed and 100% resistant space marine armor.
I don't understand why are people arguing that we would be able to fight them? Do you have to feel that we are superior even to a fictional universe? What are you basing your opinions on? The game rules? Well read some fluff, if it was a full scale invasion we would loose with in maximum of a day. They can obliterate all our forces from space, destroy the capitals and government seats before we can realize that they arrived. Earth does not stand a chance of resistance, be realistic


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

I mean, we could probably take down about a hundred SMs out of a thousand, or a hundred thousand guardsmen out of untold trillions. That's if they don't just drop an OB on us and say goodnight.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

JAMOB said:


> I mean, we could probably take down about a hundred SMs out of a thousand, or a hundred thousand guardsmen out of untold trillions. That's if they don't just drop an OB on us and say goodnight.


I doubt we'd even pierce their armor.

Our main military rifle fires a soft metal round coated in copper. I've seen rounds not even dent a 1" thick steel plate. space marine power armor is made of a ceramite titanium alloy the latter is used in vests today.

The only things that probably would penetrate astartes armor are M2's and a .50 AM rifle. Even then I wouldn't want to be the guy operating them.


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

Reaper45 said:


> I doubt we'd even pierce their armor.
> 
> Our main military rifle fires a soft metal round coated in copper. I've seen rounds not even dent a 1" thick steel plate. space marine power armor is made of a ceramite titanium alloy the latter is used in vests today.
> 
> The only things that probably would penetrate astartes armor are M2's and a .50 AM rifle. Even then I wouldn't want to be the guy operating them.


I doubt those would pierce the armor either since the heavy stubber can't.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Reaper45 said:


> So...
> 
> You're understanding the part that a fighter isn't going to be carrying a huge warhead right?
> 
> ...


You do understand I was pointing out that we could hit shit in orbit but at the same time implying it wouldn't help us any right?



darkreever said:


> Hell, even if we managed to blow imperial ships out of orbit imagine the damage they would do on impact. That ship in _Know No Fear_ ringing any bells for anyone?


Since those articles were pointing out the concern of a satellite hitting us, I imagine a ship of that size would be much more worrisome.


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

Reaper45 said:


> I doubt we'd even pierce their armor.
> 
> Our main military rifle fires a soft metal round coated in copper. I've seen rounds not even dent a 1" thick steel plate. space marine power armor is made of a ceramite titanium alloy the latter is used in vests today.
> 
> The only things that probably would penetrate astartes armor are M2's and a .50 AM rifle. Even then I wouldn't want to be the guy operating them.


If a squad of guardsmen with lasguns (or cultists with autoguns) can take down a SM, so can an AK47 or missile launcher.


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

JAMOB said:


> If a squad of guardsmen with lasguns (or cultists with autoguns) can take down a SM, so can an AK47 or missile launcher.


In the game yes, but in fluff ten guardsmen are nothing compared to single space marine he would crush them like bugs. They wouldnt be able to hurt him.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

JAMOB said:


> If a squad of guardsmen with lasguns (or cultists with autoguns) can take down a SM, so can an AK47 or missile launcher.


You are aware lasguns and autoguns are much more powerful that an AK 47 right?

Ak 47's are considered stubbers. They are not powerful enough to pierce astartes armor.


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

Reaper45 said:


> You are aware lasguns and autoguns are much more powerful that an AK 47 right?
> 
> Ak 47's are considered stubbers. They are not powerful enough to pierce astartes armor.


Stubbers are pistols. Stub guns are pistols with s3, heavy stubbers are s4 three shots. So, either ak47s are pistols, or they are more powerful than autoguns (s3 rapid fire), or they are autoguns. 



Stormxlr said:


> In the game yes, but in fluff ten guardsmen are nothing compared to single space marine he would crush them like bugs. They wouldnt be able to hurt him.


That is an interesting idea, but ultimately it fails. I forget if it's the blood angels series by jack swallow or this one book about the grey knights, but the marines are assaulting a cult armed with autguns (equatable to lasguns) and one marine dies, with the main character and sergeant being badly wounded. So they can't hurt them? Interesting.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

JAMOB said:


> Stubbers are pistols. Stub guns are pistols with s3, heavy stubbers are s4 three shots. So, either ak47s are pistols, or they are more powerful than autoguns (s3 rapid fire), or they are autoguns.
> 
> 
> 
> That is an interesting idea, but ultimately it fails. I forget if it's the blood angels series by jack swallow or this one book about the grey knights, but the marines are assaulting a cult armed with autguns (equatable to lasguns) and one marine dies, with the main character and sergeant being badly wounded. So they can't hurt them? Interesting.


Or maybe you could read the description for an autogun.

From the rule book.

Autoguns Are defined as "these robust weapons are automated self loading firearms that fire burst of high velocity _*caseless *_shot.

So no an ak 47 it's a stubber which if you read the rulebook you'd know is a catch all terms for low tech firearms.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Your thinking of the first Grey Knight novel by Ben Counter, but those were overcharged las guns not auto guns.

Unless I am mistaken, stub weapons are a rather motley assortment of hard round, non caseless, guns.

Also, a large enough group of people can take down marines, it just takes a lot of them to bog said marine down enough to attack the weak points of power armour. Otherwise no marine would ever die by being swarmed by hordes of cultists/fanatics or the likes of gaunts.


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

Reaper45 said:


> Or maybe you could read the description for an autogun.
> 
> From the rule book.
> 
> ...


But, according to the rule book, a basic stubber (or stub gun) is a s3 pistol. Are you saying the ak47 is a pistol? No? Ok, good, I hoped not (for your own sanity). It must, therefore, be a heavy stubber, a heavy 3 s4 range 36 gun. Hmm, doesn't sound too much like an ak47 - you can definitely move and shoot those. So, as it can't really be either of those, we should probably assume that it is the equivalent of an autogun in terms of firepower - after all, ak47s do "fire bursts of high velocity." Now, I know it's not exactly equivalent, but it seems to fit better than either of the other options. Furthermore, an ak47 is not exactly "low-tech" - although maybe it doesn't self-reload like an autogun, it is an extremely powerful weapon (.50 cal).

If you look at my response, you will see that I said exactly what I said above, but more condensed. There are stub guns as pistols, heavy stubbers as better than autoguns (although you can't move and shoot), and auto-gun equivalents (like lasguns!). Either way, an ak47 is not less powerful than an autogun. It so more powerful or of equal power. Plus, it's not exactly like an ak47 is our best gun. We could definitely take out a few marines for every hundred or thousand of us that they kill.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

JAMOB said:


> But, according to the rule book, a basic stubber (or stub gun) is a s3 pistol. Are you saying the ak47 is a pistol? No? Ok, good, I hoped not (for your own sanity). It must, therefore, be a heavy stubber, a heavy 3 s4 range 36 gun. Hmm, doesn't sound too much like an ak47 - you can definitely move and shoot those. So, as it can't really be either of those, we should probably assume that it is the equivalent of an autogun in terms of firepower - after all, ak47s do "fire bursts of high velocity." Now, I know it's not exactly equivalent, but it seems to fit better than either of the other options. Furthermore, an ak47 is not exactly "low-tech" - although maybe it doesn't self-reload like an autogun, it is an extremely powerful weapon (.50 cal).
> 
> If you look at my response, you will see that I said exactly what I said above, but more condensed. There are stub guns as pistols, heavy stubbers as better than autoguns (although you can't move and shoot), and auto-gun equivalents (like lasguns!). Either way, an ak47 is not less powerful than an autogun. It so more powerful or of equal power. Plus, it's not exactly like an ak47 is our best gun. We could definitely take out a few marines for every hundred or thousand of us that they kill.


But it's not an auto gun as it doesn't fire caseless ammo.

It's classified as a stubber. Which encompasses any primitive firearm ergo the AK 47.


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

Reaper45 said:


> But it's not an auto gun as it doesn't fire caseless ammo.
> 
> It's classified as a stubber. Which encompasses any primitive firearm ergo the AK 47.


Once again, you fail to understand my point. I never said they were autoguns (except when I phrased it badly, meaning to say that they were an equivalent). My point is that an ak47 is not weaker than an autogun - it is either stronger (aka heavy stubber) or it is essentially equivalent in terms of game mechanics.



darkreever said:


> Your thinking of the first Grey Knight novel by Ben Counter, but those were overcharged las guns not auto guns.


Oh right, my bad mate. Either way, This.



darkreever said:


> Also, a large enough group of people can take down marines, it just takes a lot of them to bog said marine down enough to attack the weak points of power armour. Otherwise no marine would ever die by being swarmed by hordes of cultists/fanatics or the likes of gaunts.


Lots of shots of an autogun could definitely get through eventually, even if they had to be super lucky.


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

The thing is game mechanics have to be balanced so you really can't bring game rules to the "real world" and have to rely on fluff mostly different from dif authors, either way ak47 is a stubber, its a gun from a production design of 1947 so i am pretty sure any gun in 40k is stronger than ak，


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## kharn130 (Dec 7, 2013)

in the fluff, one squad of space marines could probable take over a continent on their own, since its ment to be that power armour could withstand all solid shot weapons and even a few bolter rounds, and a squad of terminators could whoop the entire planet, since its supposedly ment to be able to withstand a direct strike from a metior and even our tanks cant fire with that, I think all we could currently do to terminator armour would be to scratch the paint, and plus magnus could disrupt our entire planet with his psychic powers, and combined with the emperor they would mash the planet with powers we would have no defense against.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

darkreever said:


> Your thinking of the first Grey Knight novel by Ben Counter, but those were overcharged las guns not auto guns.
> 
> Unless I am mistaken, stub weapons are a rather motley assortment of hard round, non caseless, guns.
> 
> Also, a large enough group of people can take down marines, it just takes a lot of them to bog said marine down enough to attack the weak points of power armour. Otherwise no marine would ever die by being swarmed by hordes of cultists/fanatics or the likes of gaunts.


Most of the fluff I read where space marines get swarmed it's by plague zombies, slaanesh cultists or khornate cultists.

They either don't feel the wounds or want the feelings.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Reaper45 said:


> Most of the fluff I read where space marines get swarmed it's by plague zombies, slaanesh cultists or khornate cultists.
> 
> They either don't feel the wounds or want the feelings.


But that doesn't change the fact that a marine can still be overwhelmed by a large enough group of people.

Put enough weight on his arms and legs and he won't be able to move, leaving people free to attack the joints between armour plates.

Its in no way the best way to combat marines, and the loss of life to do such a thing is far from efficient, but its still a possible way to take a marine down.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Are you saying the AK is a advanced weapon?
40k years in the future, it's pretty primitive for sure
Terminators would be a laugh, in th blackreach fluff, those orks had 'super shootas' that could take down a leman Russ right? A leman Russ which can survive a lascannon and still rumble onwards. But those same shootas just plincked off the termies armour. I don't think we would scratch the paint- shields would stop anything we could bring to bear!

And I read somewhere- I believe in _flesh of cretacia_ but don't quote me on that, that the marine force guidelines was somewhere along...
1 marine for a city
1 squad for a continent
1 company for a planet
Bump it up one for orks/eldar

And that's 40k planets, our pea shooters wouldn't even need that much force!
The second the imperials do anything but fart in our direction there we're screwed!
And that's being generous!


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

i the only one here thinking that this is a never gonna happen scenario (not because of the sheer fact that this is a different reality) but also because this is Terra? so the Imperium whose entire religious doctorine teaches that Terra (and segmentum solar if im not mistake) is Holy and they will instead bomb the shit out of it. not to mention that the crusade armies ( even the ones from 40K) seem to attempt peaceful resolution before all else fails. (look at Horus rising for the perfect example of this).

Just my 2 Cents really


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

kiro the avenger! said:


> Are you saying the AK is a advanced weapon?
> 40k years in the future, it's pretty primitive for sure





JAMOB said:


> My point is that an ak47 is not weaker than an autogun - it is either stronger (aka heavy stubber) or it is essentially equivalent in terms of game mechanics.


:grin:



kiro the avenger! said:


> And I read somewhere- I believe in flesh of cretacia but don't quote me on that, that the marine force guidelines was somewhere along...
> 1 marine for a city
> 1 squad for a continent
> 1 company for a planet
> ...



Interesting. I think that, if they took to the ground, we could probably kill a few just through nukes and masses of soldiers thrown at them. I think that it's plausible to say that a company could take the planet, they'd just lose a lot of guys doing it.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Why are people quoting Nick Kyme? He doesn't work for games workshop, he's someones housetrained monkey they brought in for 'bring your pet to work day' but slipped his leash. He still hides out in the Printing department, occasionally smearing shit on the paper as its going through the printers and then packaging it out.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

kiro the avenger! said:


> And I read somewhere- I believe in _flesh of cretacia_ but don't quote me on that, that the marine force guidelines was somewhere along...
> 1 marine for a city
> 1 squad for a continent
> 1 company for a planet
> Bump it up one for orks/eldar


this is nonsense, firstly 1 of anything on foot cannot control or subdue anything that is out of his line of sight and range, so 1 marine for a city is bollocks, and the maths simply escalates, a squad is 10 marines give or take, so even using the logic that 1 marine per city is possible that means 10 marines can only keep control over 10 cities, and given that there are more than ten cities in the UK then a squad couldnt control the UK let alone Europe, simply bollocks. 

The maths and technology in 40k is fantasy born 30 years ago and the fact 40k was supposed to be a throw away project done for a bit of a laugh on the back of warhammer fantasy, a chapter of marines without a fleet would get its arse handed to it by most capable military's on our planet, firstly because we dont fight toe to toe, second we wouldnt use small arms, third even if we did use small arms our small arms are not "pea shooters" there are plenty of small arms weapons used in warfare that dont rely on 9mm slugs to put a hole in folks, if a slugga can kill a marine then we have weapons that can kill a marine, sluggas and shootas are gun powder propelled bullet weapons, most ork tech is at a similar level to ours and the simple fact that an explosion propelling a metal slug can penetrate space marine armour means that the armour is able to be penetrated by object moving at high velocity, ergo we have weapons that can kill a marine and if you can kill one then a thousand will be possible.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> this is nonsense, firstly 1 of anything on foot cannot control or subdue anything that is out of his line of sight and range, so 1 marine for a city is bollocks, and the maths simply escalates, a squad is 10 marines give or take, so even using the logic that 1 marine per city is possible that means 10 marines can only keep control over 10 cities, and given that there are more than ten cities in the UK then a squad couldnt control the UK let alone Europe, simply bollocks.
> 
> The maths and technology in 40k is fantasy born 30 years ago and the fact 40k was supposed to be a throw away project done for a bit of a laugh on the back of warhammer fantasy, a chapter of marines without a fleet would get its arse handed to it by most capable military's on our planet, firstly because we dont fight toe to toe, second we wouldnt use small arms, third even if we did use small arms our small arms are not "pea shooters" there are plenty of small arms weapons used in warfare that dont rely on 9mm slugs to put a hole in folks, if a slugga can kill a marine then we have weapons that can kill a marine, sluggas and shootas are gun powder propelled bullet weapons, most ork tech is at a similar level to ours and the simple fact that an explosion propelling a metal slug can penetrate space marine armour means that the armour is able to be penetrated by object moving at high velocity, ergo we have weapons that can kill a marine and if you can kill one then a thousand will be possible.


Ork technology is lightyears beyond us.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Only because they believe it is :wink:


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

The facts aren't solid- I just remember seeing that in a book somewhere, if someone knows that book, then point it out please
But game mechanics I don't think are valid- if a marine can achieve in game what they can in the fluff, then they would cost 1000pt+ and in the fluff, sluggas can't penetrate power armour, only the super shootas could
I think the only marines we could kill would be the high rankers, cos they don't wear helmets.
And it would take alot more than a 9mm to penetrate power armour as many parts of it can take a bolt round and survive- in the fluff
And I didn't even mention titans or their vehicles, and this is assuming they want this planet inhabital at the end- there's always extermiatus waiting

But hey- it'll all be a conspiracy :grin:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Not to mention the logistics. Chapters rarely have the logistics to send ships on missions with only a single Marine. They might have lone marines in charge of largely "in control" locations, where they act a a governer of existing infrastructure and military strategy, where they are an advisor to the military operations; similar to how they worked in Salvations Reach; 3 Astartes aid with a battle plan.

If you consider that each one is armed with an .75 calibre (18+mm size round, the equivalent of what comes out of a AH1Z Viper; essentially 2m "you are dead in here" zone, and a 20m frag radius) rifle with rapid fire capabilities, but also, presumably, due to its rocket assisted munitions, and the additions of an M.40 Targeter and Silencer, the ability to transform into an effective Anti-Material rifle; it wouldn't surprise me to learn of a Bolt round with small stabilising fins, which enable it to correct its course in flight.

So, if you want allegories, and to compare weapons systems; an AH1Z would be equipped with a S4 AP5 weapon as its main chin turret (although possibly of higher rate of fire).

A Rotor Cannon from the Heresy is a Marine portable heavy weapon; so likely a vehicle mounted equivalent would be an M134 (7.62 Gatling, rather than 20mm); are S3 AP6 Salvo 3/4.

As this is possibly the nearest we have in terms of weaponry to what 40K has, Salvo 3/4 represents a weapon capable of spewing out between 2000-6000rpm, S3 represents 7.62 ammunition (non explosive) with a muzzle velocity of 2800 m/s, and 30" range represents a km of maximum range (or possibly half that for maximum effective range).

Consider how quick that would chew through soft skinned targets in today, and even lightly armoured vehicles like Wombats or Humvees. That's probably AV9 for a Humvee. Not to mention how quick it would go through a human, body armour or no.

The Imperial Guard have Flak Armour which provides an Armour Save of 5+. That means that their armour has a chance of withstanding hits from what is considered one of the biggest levellers in todays armed forces; an M134 Minigun that is so heavy it cannot be adequately carried unless on a vehicle. 

Yes, this is combining fluff and rules, and catgirls are dying left right and centre, but that's using the information to hand.


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## The Irish Commissar (Jan 31, 2012)

1 marine per city is bullshit. Even one marine against just one hundred soldiers would just fall from the sheer volume of shot coming at him and thats excluding grenade lauchers and RPGs and the like. Also i hate that assault on blackreach fluff. Terminator armour is tactical dreadnought armour which is the same armour dreadnoughts are made of if im not mistaken. Dreadnoughts have an armour value of 12, a leman russ has an armour of 14 how can these ''super shototas'' pentrate leman russ armour and not terminator armour. I know its probley in the fluff but its bullshit.


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## The Irish Commissar (Jan 31, 2012)

Also can someone tell me how orks technology is beyond us. All they have is spaceships and roks with the a zapp gun here and there. Im preetysure are best lasers are as good as theirs.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

You are mistaken.

As to how Orks material is better; well they say 'We'z da best' so that is why. Yes, that is actually hownit works. They want it to. If it didn't work, they didn't want it hard enough.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

The Irish Commissar said:


> Also can someone tell me how orks technology is beyond us. All they have is spaceships and roks with the a zapp gun here and there. Im preetysure are best lasers are as good as theirs.


Because they believe it is. And it was stated several times in the fluff that ork tech surpasses the imperium.


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## The Irish Commissar (Jan 31, 2012)

So is that why in some novels they say not to pick up ork weapons because it would blow up in your hand. Thats an important piece of information that is :laugh:


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

For those interested in reading a book about an advanced alien society invading earth (well, 8 actually for the full set!) - I would recommend the Harry Turtledove World War series:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwar


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

The Irish Commissar said:


> So is that why in some novels they say not to pick up ork weapons because it would blow up in your hand. Thats an important piece of information that is :laugh:


I don't recall reading that in any book.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

I have a cupboard full of spices so the lizards are fucked! :laugh:


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## The Irish Commissar (Jan 31, 2012)

Reaper45 said:


> I don't recall reading that in any book.


Cant remember what is was called but it was about the imperial guard and included sisters of battle in it as the sorta bad guys near the end. But after escaping from some ork place one of the soldiers goes to pick an ork weapon up. But their veteren sergent guys tells them not to because it only evers seems to work in ork hands and if he tried to fire it it would blow of his hand or worse :laugh:


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

I don't think it would be the ork gun blowing his hand off that's the problem- more like the commissar behind him blowing his head off! Judging by how xenophobic the imperium is


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

It would most likely blow up in their hands though, as most of the Ork technology only works because of their collective belief that it does. If anyone else picks it up, it would probably be too unstable to work at all and blow up.

I suppose you could call that lightyears ahead of our tech though, to be fair. Last I checked, I can't imagine a pencil becoming a lightsaber and suddenly become Obi-wan Kenobi.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Nordicus said:


> Last I checked, I can't imagine a pencil becoming a lightsaber and suddenly become Obi-wan Kenobi.


You obviously aren't trying hard enough! :no:


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Tawa said:


> You obviously aren't trying hard enough!


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

I just remember where my space marine force guide came from! I *think* it came from know no fear I any ones read that and remembers it please correct me but I really didn't want that to start a hate storm! just demonstrate the power of the astartes

And the one difference between termie armour and a dreadnought is termies have a shield generator- why the imperials don't give their vehicles shields I don't know, or at least localised shields if the fields to small- protecting tracks, guns and engines would help a lot I think


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

kiro the avenger! said:


> And the one difference between termie armour and a dreadnought is termies have a shield generator


As far as I'm aware that is only the Cataphractii pattern of TDA.

Gorgon pattern had a form of refractor field too.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

kiro the avenger! said:


> I don't think it would be the ork gun blowing his hand off that's the problem- more like the commissar behind him blowing his head off! Judging by how xenophobic the imperium is


Unless of course it's cain.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

The fluff defiantly says they have a force field- that's where the invuln comes from


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

kiro the avenger! said:


> The fluff defiantly says they have a force field- that's where the invuln comes from


Whereabouts?


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

Go check the WHwiki the invulnerable save comes from crux terminatus, it supposed to have tiny piece of emperors armor and Emperor protects his loyal servants.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Still not seeing anything that says TDA (other than Cataphractii & Gorgon patterns) have force fields.....


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

They don't have a force field i have no idea where he got it from. Like i said the Invulnerable save is from crux terminatus


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Stormxlr said:


> They don't have a force field i have no idea where he got it from. Like i said the Invulnerable save is from crux terminatus


D'oh! Apologies Storm, I misread your reply :blush:


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Humpth: could've sworn it said they had a field generator: I shall look again but obviously my memories failing: sad as I'm 15, but age moves at different rates I guess 

EDIT: just read the entry on pg. 102 of the old codex and it comes to interpretation I guess, I read the crux provides a ward as it being a force field generator too


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

kiro the avenger! said:


> Humpth: could've sworn it said they had a field generator: I shall look again but obviously my memories failing: sad as I'm 15, but age moves at different rates I guess
> 
> EDIT: just read the entry on pg. 102 of the old codex and it comes to interpretation I guess, I read the crux provides a ward as it being a force field generator too





> It is said that the Crux Terminatus behaves as a ward that augments the Terminator armour itself, capable of turning aside blows that would threaten even a war engine.http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tactical_Dreadnought_Armour


Terminator inv save doesnt behave like a conversion field which is always 4+ (as far as i know). If the armor save doesnt work terminators face the attack with their crux terminatus and let it take the hit as it is supposed to turn away even the mightiest of psychic attacks.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Faith in the Emperor as opposed to an actual force field.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Like a Rosarius, but small-scale!


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

What people fail to understand is the scale of the Imperium. 

The Imperium could kill our planet simply dropping naked men from orbit until the whole world was choked full with corpses. And that would mean NOTHING to them.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Romanov77 said:


> What people fail to understand is the scale of the Imperium.
> 
> The Imperium could kill our planet simply dropping naked men from orbit until the whole world was choked full with corpses. And that would mean NOTHING to them.


I swear I saw that point in another of these somewhere...
But yeah, I believe they have done something along those lines before
Commander chesnov I think, the one with 'sent in the next wave!' In the guard codex, I believe his fluff said he took a fortress like that, I mean guardsmen may as we'll be naked men right? Against the 40k races at least...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

And at the same time, they still have better body armour than what our equivalent anti-personnel weapons can penetrate; the equivalent AP6 on Heavy Stubbers/Rotor Cannons is up against 5+ Saves.

Yes, fluff, rules interaction, catgirls dying, dying everywhere, but as a comparison, it shows how effective they are.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Vaz said:


> And at the same time, they still have better body armour than what our equivalent anti-personnel weapons can penetrate; the equivalent AP6 on Heavy Stubbers/Rotor Cannons is up against 5+ Saves.
> 
> Yes, fluff, rules interaction, catgirls dying, dying everywhere, but as a comparison, it shows how effective they are.


I pointed this out before but the leman russ can be equipped with three weapons that are larger than the bradly's main gun.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

What weapons are they?


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Vaz said:


> What weapons are they?


heavy bolter.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

You mean a 25mm (1.0 calibre) is bigger than a 120mm cannon?

K. Bro.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Vaz said:


> You mean a 25mm (1.0 calibre) is bigger than a 120mm cannon?
> 
> K. Bro.


So what bradly mounts that?


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Are you really suggesting that a RPG is in any way equal to 120mm cannon round? Not to mention a rapid fire RPG...
If it even is a 120mm, I thought it was a 20mm


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Reaper45 said:


> So what bradly mounts that?


None; Bradleys arent tanks, they are tracked vehicles. their largest (not most casualty producing) weapon is the TOW followed by the 25MM Bushmaster (by far their most casualty producing weapon) and a 7.62 coax. It also has the abilityto add 5.56 port fire weapons.

If you want to talk about Abrams however they have a 120mm. Its not exactly hard to mount a weapon thats larger than 25mm.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

SwedeMarine said:


> None; Bradleys arent tanks, they are tracked vehicles. their largest (not most casualty producing) weapon is the TOW followed by the 25MM Bushmaster (by far their most casualty producing weapon) and a 7.62 coax. It also has the abilityto add 5.56 port fire weapons.
> 
> If you want to talk about Abrams however they have a 120mm. Its not exactly hard to mount a weapon thats larger than 25mm.


If you were paying attention you would have noticed that Originally I never brought up a tank in any shape or form I was speaking of the bradly, everyone else decided that I was talking about a tank.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Most likely because you compared a heavy main battle tank (Russ) to a glorified APC (Bradley). It is quite easy to outclass a Bradley.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

scscofield said:


> It is quite easy to outclass a Bradley.


For example:


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Hey look it's the NZ Armored Regiment.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

I said nothing..... :laugh:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Oh, sorry, my bad. I must admit, I just flicked over Reaper's post, and assumed that as he was talking about a Main Battle Tank, he must be comparing equivalents, seeing as that was what we were doing. My bad!

In other news, the Planetkiller has a Main Weapons system that is more powerful than what a Royal Navy Aircraft Engineering Technician is equipped with (a pair of Mole grips, usually).


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Vaz said:


> In other news, the Planetkiller has a Main Weapons system that is more powerful than what a Royal Navy Aircraft Engineering Technician is equipped with (a pair of Mole grips, usually).


Bloody cut-backs.....


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Not even a bloody aircraft to Engineer Technician on either.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

There's always the French carriers. But alas, not every Royal Navy Aircraft Engineering Technician is able to speak frog


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Vaz said:


> Not even a bloody aircraft to Engineer Technician on either.


Sounds like the NZ airforce, they decided that in the efforts of sticking true to the National Bird the Kiwi airforce would becoming flightless. The chances are the Birdmen of Catrazza could now achieve air superiority against us with very little effort.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> Sounds like the NZ airforce, they decided that in the efforts of sticking true to the National Bird the Kiwi airforce would becoming flightless. The chances are the Birdmen of Catrazza could now achieve air superiority against us with very little effort.


Welcome back to the Empire, Jac!

The NZAF is flightless, the RN is boatless. Together, we can achieve, um, yeah...... :blush:


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Just to make it more humiliating it's RNZAF and the RNZN has only got 2 Frigates (both based at the top of the North Island) and 6 Patrol Boats to patrol one of the largest EEZ's in the world. Yeah we are pretty fucked when it comes to staving off an invasion before it reaches us.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Yeah, so NZ is fucked when the Astartes get here :laugh:


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Oh well and truly. As I said, we are fucked when the Birdmen of Catrazza get here.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Vaz said:


> Oh, sorry, my bad. I must admit, I just flicked over Reaper's post, and assumed that as he was talking about a Main Battle Tank, he must be comparing equivalents, seeing as that was what we were doing. My bad!
> 
> In other news, the Planetkiller has a Main Weapons system that is more powerful than what a Royal Navy Aircraft Engineering Technician is equipped with (a pair of Mole grips, usually).


The idea was to put things in terms that people can understand.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Yet you compared apples (heavy armor) to oranges (light armor). Then mocked people for assuming you meant apples.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

We'd lose. 
They have space magic.

(not counting the intergalatic, planet conquering/destroying fleets)


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Regardless of weapon strength, I think the Imperium would win on one solid piece fo technology we are not likly to be able to counter. Communications.

Most modern warfare relies on the command and control centers. These would be high priority targets for Astartes drop pod assault. I imagine the drop pod to be heavily armoured to survive insertion (I always think of AV12 as a just a game mechanic). Once assaulting marines got into control bunkers it would just be a case of sending in large IG formations to destroy any organized military resistance. Remember the size of our armed forces is small compared to the out put of an Imperial crusade.

Another thing people really have missed is air superority. Looking at the fluff the lower technology fighters used by the Imperial Navy are far more rugged than those flown by the most advance air forces on the planet. Orbital bombardments on air fields and air craft carriers will mean they have air superiority. Then its good bye tank regiments as they get destroyed by marauders.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Who's cares about air superioty? We'ed lose even before they had thought to start arming the fighters! The imperials would have orbital superioty- and that's us screwed from the word go!
But if they did want earth (let's imagine it's not terra) 'alive' air superioty would be a pretty big helper to them.mand even if our air bases weren't fucked up, their fighters I'd imagine would be vastly superior to ours, the vendetta for example I'd imagine being able to take on any fighter we have easy!


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

kiro the avenger! said:


> But if they did want earth (let's imagine it's not terra) 'alive'


I always hate when people bring up the notion of this being terra and therefore the imperium would act differently. Is it not possible that more than one world in the galaxy during mankinds galactic expansion lost all records of the past and thought they inhabited 'terra'?

Just because we call this world terra does not mean it is the exact same one that is the cradle of the imperium.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Strange that said lost world inhabits in a solar system that exactly resembles ours, with mars and Titan in their correct places (maybe not Titan right now- damned, wait, what were they called?)
I just think that the point of the discussion is not if the imperium would attack us, but 'when' they attacked us, would we be screwed- yes, yes we would


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

scscofield said:


> Yet you compared apples (heavy armor) to oranges (light armor). Then mocked people for assuming you meant apples.


Or you could you know use your brain and realize, Hey their tanks secondary weapons are larger than the primary weapons we use on APC's

The idea was to compare weapons, not what they are equipped on.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Alright we will play along and pretend that you making a comparison to two vastly different things was logical. 


Thing is, you have no means of comparing that weapon accurately. Size of round does not mean more armor busting power. It is what the the round is created for. Many of the M242 rounds are armor piercing rounds, there is even explosive round versions. Unless you can spit out fluff direct comparisons to those rounds then you can't state they are better or worse than the rounds out of Bolters.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Considering bolt rounds of all sizes
Are mass reactive self propelled rounds with an armour piecing tip
Means that they not only are high explosive as they detonate shorty after making contact with any mass- be it your fleshy parts or an armoured vehicle, but before they do that they will smash through any armour with their adamintine tips and the speed from their rocket motors, no round we have matches the devastation to both infantry and armoured targets that the bolt round does...
And the weapons that i believe fire the bolt rounds (of any size) are...
Bolt guns, bolt pistol
Heavy bolter
Assault cannon
Auto cannon (not 100% on this one but pretty sure)

So anybody got a rapid fire self proppelled high explosive, armour piecing pistol? Assault rifle? Mini gun? No? Okay then, we're fucked...


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

How has this reached _eleven pages?_ 

The Imperium crushes us like bug.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> How has this reached _eleven pages?_


Because your looking at ten posts per page thatsthat's how. =P

Only six pages for me.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

You can change the posts per page? Or is that mod powers?
But it's reached eleven pages as people somehow think that our weapons begin to stack up against a SPMR round, not to mention a orbital fleet, or that even said SPMR round struggles to penetrate power armours, yet our weapons somehow stand a chance? 
The sergeants, even Calgary are fair game, it's their fault for thinking their face is so tough... But a standard legionary- jog on mate!


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

Again, the Imperium can drop naked men from orbit until the planet is one huge rotting graveyard where no human can survive. 

And you guys are still arguing about armor, bullets and stuff.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Romanov77 said:


> Again, the Imperium can drop naked men from orbit until the planet is one huge rotting graveyard where no human can survive.
> 
> And you guys are still arguing about armor, bullets and stuff.


Who's arguing? People are telling Reaper he's an idiot, because he is, and he won't accept that, others are providing information to as to how screwed we are; such as comparing how "ineffective" our weapons are against the pretty much the weakest thing the Imperium can throw at us, and... you're being a bit of a dick making statements like that, because where was there any recorded evidence of the Imperium doing so.

Not to mention "no they can't", because they'd burn up in atmospheric reentry. Cheers for trying though.


----------



## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Vaz said:


> Who's arguing? People are telling Reaper he's an idiot, because he is, and he won't accept that, others are providing information to as to how screwed we are; such as comparing how "ineffective" our weapons are against the pretty much the weakest thing the Imperium can throw at us, and... you're being a bit of a dick making statements like that, because where was there any recorded evidence of the Imperium doing so.
> 
> Not to mention "no they can't", because they'd burn up in atmospheric reentry. Cheers for trying though.


What is so hard about understanding a heavy bolter fires a larger round Than the M242 bushmaster?

Is that a concept that people are incapable of getting their heads around.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Larger does not equal better.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Reaper45 said:


> What is so hard about understanding a heavy bolter fires a larger round Than the M242 bushmaster?
> 
> Is that a concept that people are incapable of getting their heads around.


I'll take Vaz's advice over yours if that's ok. He does have a disproportionately larger amount of knowledge on the subject of modern day munitions and tactics than probably anybody else on the forum. 



scscofield said:


> Larger does not equal better.


So my ex tried to tell me. In addition to what the source of the new stain on my favorite shirt I think she was lying about that as well.


----------



## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Jacobite said:


> I'll take Vaz's advice over yours if that's ok. He does have a disproportionately larger amount of knowledge on the subject of modern day munitions and tactics than probably anybody else on the forum.
> 
> 
> 
> So my ex tried to tell me. In addition to what the source of the new stain on my favorite shirt I think she was lying about that as well.


and all I stated was that a heavy bolter fires a big round, I compared it to the only thing I though was around the size.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

A Heavy Bolter is 1.0 Calibre, according to the SM Game Guide. So, 25mm + Change, basically. That +change is virtually nothing, either.


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

scscofield said:


> Larger does not equal better.


My dong begs to differ.


But yeah. Heavy bolters are 100 calibre, bolters are 75, and modern equipment tends to cap out around 50 for man-portable stuff. The exception to that are some of the solid self-propelled slugs that some tactical shotguns (such as the AA12, most famously) can chamber that are the equivalent of a 75 calibre projectile, but for the most part, modern hardware is chump change compared to the Imperium's stuff.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Forget fleets, invasions and marines. One Mecahnicus ship with a few clever tech priests. The AdMech could probably hack all our electronic defence/weapons systems from space and use all of it against us, all while laughing "trolololololol" (or beeping out the binary equivalent of this) as it happens. 

Unless we manage to get Machete Cortez up there first. Then the shit's about to get real.


----------



## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

I know for a fact that humanity as it exists today could wipe out the entire imperium simply by unleashing our entire nuclear payload on our selves. Earth and Terra are the same place, the human race of the 21st century are the ancestors of the human race of the 41st millennium. If we die now, then there will be no one left to be part of the imperium then. Sorry, felt like tackling the whole issue from a philosophical standpoint.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

tu_shan82 said:


> I know for a fact that humanity as it exists today could wipe out the entire imperium simply by unleashing our entire nuclear payload on our selves. Earth and Terra are the same place, the human race of the 21st century are the ancestors of the human race of the 41st millennium. If we die now, then there will be no one left to be part of the imperium then. Sorry, felt like tackling the whole issue from a philosophical standpoint.


Do you really think that a nuke has a chance to kill the most powerful psyker in history?


----------



## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Ah but you see, then there would be no imperium in the future. So their image could not be sent down the warp back in time or some bull into the minds of a overpricing model company. Therefore we would not be told about this future, so we would not concern our selves with suicide to protect us form ourselves.
And thus we have a infinite loop as if we do not kill ourselves, then the imperium will exist. Therefore time travell bull says something!


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> Do you really think that a nuke has a chance to kill the most powerful psyker in history?


What? Uri Geller?
I'd take my chances...


----------



## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

kiro the avenger! said:


> Ah but you see, then there would be no imperium in the future. So their image could not be sent down the warp back in time or some bull into the minds of a overpricing model company. Therefore we would not be told about this future, so we would not concern our selves with suicide to protect us form ourselves.
> And thus we have a infinite loop as if we do not kill ourselves, then the imperium will exist. Therefore time travell bull says something!


But according to the Doctor, who is without a doubt the univerese's leading oexpert on time travel. I could do any number of things to prevent the Imperium of Man from existing in the 41st millenium. Putting aside the use of the world's currenty nuclear arsenal on humanity at this point in time there are numerous actions I could take. 

How about travelling back to dawn of humanity, either via tardis or bath tub, Delorean's not really my style, with a kolishnakov (sp?) and wiping humanity out in the very beginning. By doing that, then neither the Chaos gods, nor the Emperor of Mankind would exist at all. Or perhaps I go forward to the 31st millenium and warn Horus Lupercal not to lower the shield, preventing the big E from teleporting onto Horus's flagship.. How about opening a rift in time so great at around the 25th millenium and coaxing a hive fleet or two thorugh, huaminty would be eaten during the Dark Age of Technology.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

tu_shan82 said:


> How about travelling back to dawn of humanity, either via tardis or bath tub, Delorean's not really my style, with a kolishnakov (sp?) and wiping humanity out in the very beginning. By doing that, then neither the Chaos gods, nor the Emperor of Mankind would exist at all.


By doing that you just create tzeentch (for the convoluted way of killing humanity) and Khorne (a kalashnikov says "Fuck you" like nothing else)


----------



## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Pssyche said:


> Uri Geller?


I wonder if the Emperor ever did the spoon-bending thing at parties to pick up chicks?


----------



## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

Tawa said:


> I wonder if the Emperor ever did the spoon-bending thing at parties to pick up chicks?


Yeah, he could do it hands-free too!
A sure fire hit with the girls...


----------



## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

I can well imagine.

"Hey, Horus. Watch _this_!"


----------



## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

Tawa said:


> I wonder if the Emperor ever did the spoon-bending thing at parties to pick up chicks?


Willing to bet he had all sorts of tricks and techniques for getting the ladies into bed.:wink:


----------



## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

tu_shan82 said:


> Willing to bet he had all sorts of tricks and techniques for getting the ladies into bed.:wink:


I'm sure in Horus Heresy Vol.1 he said to Saint Celestine "Does this smell like chloroform to you?..."


----------



## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere he was actually quite the hypnotist as well, "Tick tock, tick tock, come back to the throne and suck my co..."


----------



## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

"Hey, wanna see my rod of office?" :spiteful:


----------



## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

It's no wonder he's a dessicated husk.
He's spent the last ten thousand years sat on a chair having all the bodily fluids "removed" from his body...


----------



## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Pssyche said:


> It's no wonder he's a dessicated husk.
> He's spent the last ten thousand years sat on a chair having all the bodily fluids "removed" from his body...


He's like a student with access to free porn.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Well, I guess that answers Hrous' question of why is the Emperor sealed in the Imperial Dungeon instead of out on the Great Crusade...

'My Lord?'
'DON'T COME IN. BUSY DOING... SCIENCE STUFF.'


----------



## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Obviously not so great at picking up the ladies. He had to create is 20 sons instead of the normal form of reproduction.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

humakt said:


> Obviously not so great at picking up the ladies. He had to create is 20 sons instead of the normal form of reproduction.


But Magnus had a thousand sons, he must have got the genes from somewhere.


----------



## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

MidnightSun said:


> But Magnus had a thousand sons, he must have got the genes from somewhere.


Considering he has the genes for about a million sons in his nutsack at any given time, I don't think women are needed for this particular problem in the year 30.000 to be honest.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Pssyche said:


> I'm sure in Horus Heresy Vol.1 he said to Saint Celestine "Does this smell like chloroform to you?..."


First time I ever tried that was on first date with my wench, except I fucked it up, "Does this smell like Chlorophyll to you".

Had her laughing, so its a winner.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Nordicus said:


> Considering he has the genes for about a million sons in his nutsack at any given time, I don't think women are needed for this particular problem in the year 30.000 to be honest.


So... The Thousand Sons use Magnus' ballsack as a transport?

And that _particular_ Land Raider conversion is why I can never go back to Warhammer World.


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> So... The Thousand Sons use Magnus' ballsack as a transport?
> 
> And that _particular_ Land Raider conversion is why I can never go back to Warhammer World.


I thought that was a Forge World Mega Squighopper.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> But Magnus had a thousand sons, he must have got the genes from somewhere.


Matalan probably. Oh, wait, _genes_..... 



Pssyche said:


> I thought that was a Forge World Mega Squighopper.


Only when he hasn't emptied them out for a while :wink:


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Pssyche said:


> I thought that was a Forge World Mega Squighopper.


That makes sense; I think I'd probably jump up and down and try to kill everything if little green men poked my nuts with sharp sticks.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> That makes sense; I think I'd probably jump up and down and try to kill everything if little green men poked my nuts with sharp sticks.


Honestly, you've never lived.... :spiteful:


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Nah, I just don't really go in for goblins with spears. You remember that old Ogre magic item 'The Tenderiser'? :wink:


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## Veteran Sergeant (May 17, 2012)

Jacobite said:


> The greatest military power on this earth can't even put down a bunch of goat herders running around with AK's and bolt action rifles.


Well, let's be realistic. The US isn't trying to put down those goat herders. If the objective was utter annihilation without regard to the civilian populace, the war would have been over in a couple months.

It's that whole "care about human rights" thing holding them back. Protracted counter-insurgency =/= unrestrained conventional warfare.

That said, I'm fairly sure a single battle barge cleans house on the planet with little problem. And why is everyone feeding this troll?


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

veteran sergeant said:


> and why is everyone feeding this troll?


"it's so fluffy!!!"


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Tawa said:


> "it's so fluffy!!!"


But it flies in the face of all the established canon...


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

Can we PLEASE get back to the matter in hand?
Johnny Emperor and his big bollocks!


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Mine are bigger.

And a funny shade of green for that matter


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Well, this thread seems to have... Divulged... Somewhat
Cracked up laughing though


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Occasionally I draw teeth and eyes on mine, plane-style.

Gets me into very interesting conversations with the redshirts.

Hurts like hell when I superglue them onto a base though.


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## SKITTLESKITTEN (Feb 12, 2008)

I read somewhere where a space marine ordered some kind of bomb that ignites all the oxygen in a planet's atmosphere, pretty sure we couldn't beat that=p


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## Ninjurai (Mar 31, 2010)

I believe the weapon that destroys an entire planet in Dawn Of War is called "God-Splitter" not sure cuz its been a min but even without the hellish weapons of the Imperium you would have to consider the political power of The Inquisition. Inquisitors are psychic, manipulative, power hungry, and accomplished diplomats. With their skills put to use it stands to reason that the imperium would not need to conquer us if we (as humans who would be considered a commodity for use in war, or as slaves) bent to their will long before the one imperial dingy required to crush our world showed up.


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