# CSM tactics vs Tyranids -- I suck



## Rick4937 (Nov 9, 2011)

Hello all:

I have had absolutely no luck with my CSM army vs Tyranids. I have tried a variety of armies and still come up well, well short each time. My opponent's army generally consists of 2 tervigons (that never seem to roll doubles and endlessly pump out new troops), 2 flying hive tyrants with 12 shots each, 2-3 trygons, a doom of malantai in a mycetic spore (this thing has single-handedly killed half my army before), and hordes and hordes of termigaunts and hormiguants. 

We generally play at the 2,000+ level, and I can never seem to bring enough firepower to kill so many MCs while simultaneously being able to deal with hordes. My armies have variously included flying demon princes with daemon weapons, missile launcher havocs, autocannon havocs, obliterators, plague marines with plasma guns, deepstriking terminators, 1 heldrake (I only own 1), a few helbrutes, etc. etc. etc. Nothing seems to work.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how to deal with Tyranids, particularly with respect to how to kill suddenly appearing MCs (tyrgons) and MCs held far back (tervigons) that endlessly pump out new troops? Notably, my friend plays a rather shooty Tyranids list with, for example, a mycetic spore with 20 guants that each have an assault 3 shooter (thus 60! shots). It's a beast.

Thoughts?


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## DivineEdge (May 31, 2012)

Trygons can't assault when they show up so just shoot them down some heavy weapons fire and they are gone. 

Can you post up a list of what you use for more specific help?

Killing the tervs is always a priority when I play against nids. Missile launchers should be able to kill one or two per turn. 

Bolters should scythe down gants. 

Be careful - a lot of the CSM big guns are AP 4. When playing nids focus on bringing lascannons and missiles to the party. But hades autocannons should blow away warriors and equivalent. 

Black mace would scythe down gants of the like as well. 

Devilgants in a spore are decent, but that unit costs a minimum of 240 points. You should kill them with 2 squads of bolters once they come down - and they will only kill 5 marines. 
Heldrakes probably won't do too much against nids.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I agree with most of Divine's points, but I do believe a Heldrake would be very effective with Baleflamer. The Baleflamer has enough Strength to worry Monstrous Creatures, pile pain on swarms with Torrent, and the Meteoric Descent is actually quite an effective way of doing a quick couple of wounds on a Trygon or Tervigon. In addition, Hive Guard are the only real answer Nids have to one, and even they will struggle. The other unit you might watch out for are the Winged Hive Tyrants with Brainleech Worms, but you can probably avoid one or take it down with other units thank to the Grounded rule. The other will have to be Vector Struck or something, although I would recommend Havocs with Autocannons as an anti-everything unit.

The Devilgants average 5 kills on a unit of Power Armoured troops. I'd say that taking the hit and then tying them up in assault is your best chance, as they're likely to be too far from the Tervigons to be a threat in combat whereas you can chop them apart. Also, the Burning Brand of Skalathrax is most certainly your friend in this situation. Weapon Virus is also a nasty malediction on a unit relying on wieght of shots with poor armour.

Midnight


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Considering his ranged power sucks for the first 2 turns you should consider running dual force org and taking 6 havok squads with 3 missile launchers each. Then take plasma guns on you marine squads. Take a helldrake or two, and some korne bikers with flamers and icon of wrath and you should more or less auto win.......mind you this would be kinda of a dick thing to do, but if you are just getting tabled every time then maybe being a bit cheap is reasonable.


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## DivineEdge (May 31, 2012)

Flyrants will pound a heldrake if they get around back. Heldrakes are good, best at killing MEQs and the like though. Flamers can take care of gants and missiles are better for big guys.


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## Rick4937 (Nov 9, 2011)

In my most recent 2k battle, I went heavy on noise marines with the thinking that they could sit back with their salvo weapons and shoot. It was a single force org game, so I had only 1 defiler and 2 sets of missile launcher havocs. When 2 of the 3 trygons arrived turn 2, they deep struck in such a position that they were not visible to the missile launchers, to they were able to survive and then pummel the troops next to them the following turn. My daemon princes got shot down and then shot to death.

In a 4.5k dual force org chart game, I went heavy on troops and had, I think, 5 different rhinos of 10 CSMs each with 2 plasma guns, and 2 units of 20 plague zombies. I had a defiler, 3 helbrutes, 2 squads of 3 oblits (these did well), 2 squads of missile launcher havocs, 3 daemon princes, 1 heldrake, 10 warp talons (wanted to try them), etc. My opponent used mycetic spores and trygon deep strikes very effectively and shot me to pieces. His doom of malantai used its mycetic spore to drop right between 3 units and more or less crushed them with its psychic powers and thus went up to 10 wounds. It made its 3+ invul saves when I tried to shoot it with krak missiles.

I've tried lots of approaches and just haven't done well. Part of it, I'm sure, it that I could have deployed and played a bit better, but the reality is that it's very hard to kill 7+ MCs and accompanying hordes, all the while trying to catch and control objectives.


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## Septok (Jan 21, 2012)

MCs are always a pain. Fact. Few Tyranid players would expect the Doom to survive more than a turn out of its pod. Fact.

Take plenty of Havocs (with rockets, I would say), give pretty much every unit a plasma gun (or 2) and don't let them get to your shooties. Use templates for hordes and either emplacements or Heldrakes (or flying Princes) to take care of the fliers. But don't forget that Tyranid fliers can be grounded if you shoot them enough, leaving them sitting ducks for any rockets you have. 

PMs might be good here. They're tough, they have poisoned CC weapons to give them a chance against MCs and they get 2 special weapons. T5, 3+ armour FNP guys won't go down easily, especially given you need to hit them with S10 to negate the FNP - nids can only get that from Psyker Nids with Biomancy and the Tfex, which kinda sucks.

Turn 1, shoot Tervis with krak rockets. You ignore armour and wound on a 2+ - per my calculations, it's 10.8 krak shots on average to down one, and you can easily afford that many at 2k+. Oh, and give them the first turn if you take fliers, you want to take as little from them as possible. 

From thereon in, you shoot down fliers, blow up hordes and generally muck them up by shooting.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Best advice is to deploy in such a way that you can focus fire on 1-3 targets a turn, and make it so that if he does assault a unit it will brake opening the MC or unit up for half a armies worth of shooting. Also the doom is not immune to instant death and still suck in CC pretty bad. A single DP should charge it if in rang eand walk everything away from the fight. Also try to deploy so it can only hit 1-2 units even if he does not scatter.

Nids aren't really that scary when you get used to fighting them, just remember a MC with a single wound is just as dangerous as a fully unwounded MC so take em down 1-3 at a time. Which is fairly easy considering they have no inv and have a hard time getting cover (Area terrain doesn't give them a cover save unless they are 25% obscured).


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Thinking about it, you could fairly cheaply ally in the Plaguebearers, Daemonettes and Flamers to beat him at his own game. I'd say that the Masque would be decent, but prepare to die horribly from any spare Devilgants, and that Daemon Princes can beat up Tervigons if they can do it quickly enough to avoid retribution from Poisoned Termagants. For a HQ I'd strongly recommend Skulltaker on Chariot, as he will carve through both Tervigons and any grounded Tyrants without taking a wound.

Midnight


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## Rick4937 (Nov 9, 2011)

Daemon allies are an interesting thought, though I have only a bloodthirster and 10 khorne daemons (whatever they're called).

We have a 4.5k, dual force org chart game coming up. I think my new force will roughly consist of:

Abaddon (to grant chosen as troops)
Daemon prince with black mace, wings, power armor
Daemon prince with axe of blind fury, wings, power armor
Chaos lord, steed of slaanesh, burning brand, sigil of corruption, lightning claw (will outflank with big infantry unit)

3 Helbrutes with missile launcher or plasma cannon (haven't decided)

1-2 Heldrake(s) (only own 1 at the moment)

5 units of 8 chosen with 4 plasma guns, 1 flamer, 1 combi-flamer, rhino
1 big unit of shooty infantry (haven't decided exactly what this unit will be like, it will outflank with the lord and try to kill a tervigon, which typically hang out on the flanks)
4 units of 20 cultists w/ 2 flamers

5 units of missile launcher havocs
1 defiler

1 aegis defense line w/ quad gun


The general thinking is that the cultists will be fodder to deploy in a spread out fashion to make deepsrtriking more difficult for my opponent. The havocs will be in and around the aegis defense line along with the defiler. The daemon princes will fly and attack the tervigons, broodlord, and or hive guard. Abaddon will be in a unit of cultists and will defend the home area from the trygons. The big infantry unit and lord will outflank and kill whatever they can, most likely a tervigon. The 5 units of chosen will advance towards objectives. The heldrake will do heldrake-y things. The helbrutes will also protect the home area and will provide long range firepower.

These huge games are a blast.

Thoughts?


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## Squire (Jan 15, 2013)

It would be good to take down a hive tyrant on T1 if you get the first turn, especially if you can get one that isn't hiding behind a tervigon for a cover save. Go for the warlord if you can. After that, remember that shooting down a FMC can wound the creature when it falls

If you can choose which tervigon to shoot at, go for the one with the most termagants within 6 inches, because those units will take wounds when it dies. 

The doom is only T4, just hit it with a power fist or S8 gun, but remember it has a 3++ so only do that if you have a few S8 weapons to attempt to kill it. If you only have one at the time, it might be worth just knocking a wound off a tervigon or trygon which is far more reliable

Shoot the MC's that aren't under the effects of iron arm at the time, as opposed to the ones that are- unless absolutely necessary

If you can field enough missile launchers and lascannons to take out the tervigons early then you could just put your efforts into dealing with the gaunts. Focus on the mission and get rid of your opponent's troops. Missile launcher havocs can fulfill both roles


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