# Ogre Ironfists



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Intro- for those who dont know what an ironfist is its the ogre kingdoms version of a shield, but it is used very differently: it can only ever be used in combat (so no +1AS vs shooting) and you can choose to use it as a shield+hand weapon or as an aditional hand weapon.

So here's my query- can the ogre switch between shield and hand weapon every round of combat... I always thought you could but have heard several ogre playeres say you cant, so which is it?

The rule in question says you can choose which weapon to take at the start of combat but then cannot change until the combat has finished. Well I think thats fine since no matter how you use it you are still using the ironfist... or in otherwords you arent changing weapon, simply whether you decide to impale someone's head or fend off an axe blow. To me it makes sense that you can change since it doesnt need the ogre to sheath one weapon and draw another... although it may take them a while to clue in to using it in a different way mebbe not stupid but ogres certainly arent the quickest things out there).


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

If it's an issue at a club, you guys can easily come to a reasonable, customized decision. I'd say that switching between another hand weapon and a shield with the Ironfist seems legitimate, so I'd be fine with it (although I'd still like to see Ogres with +1LD, roll 3D6 to flee and pursue, have a scaly skin save, so on and so forth...)

In terms of the actual rules, though, a unit or model must start a combat and end a combat with the same weapon.

How about this example: Your Ogre Bulls have Ironfists and a Hand Weapon (or the club or sword, whichever works). They get charged by a unit of High Elf Spear Elves. Since you're faced with a flurry of light attacks, you may feel safer with the Ironfist as a shield, so you opt to use them as such. Per the rules, you must use the Ironfists as shields until either the Elves break or your Ogres break from that combat.


Reference:
-BRB, *Weapons* section, under "Weapons and Units" in the 2nd paragraph (try page 54)


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I agree with Ascendant, and that's how I've always played. Ironfists are "Used as" additional hand weapon OR shield" not "Can act as Shield or Additional hand weapon every round".

When you choose to use shield, it's a shield until you finish the combat. AHW, it's an AHW until the end of the combat. You never declare "I'm using the ironfist in shield mode" you declare "I'm using the Ironfist as a shield"


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I also agree with creon and ascendant on how the ironfist works although given how much they cost (especially when you add in lt armour to get a save) I normally just leave them from the list altogether and try to squeeze in a few extra bodies.


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

Although they should be able to swap they can't. Why do you think black orcs have armed to da teeth?GW could have simply given them them both weapons , thats just an example.
I agree with you thought they really should as they aren't actualy changing weapon.

Although why would you want an ironfist in the place?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

An example of why you would want an ironfist and why you would want to switch:
A bull unit with ironfists charges a basic unit of dark elves, they want the additional hand weapons to maximise the damage of their charge. Next turn the elves strike first so the bulls would want to use the ironfists as shields to up their max armour save to 4+ (saving either 40% or 33% of wounds taken depending on whether you took LA too).

I very rarely use my ironfists as shields, its only worth doing against S3 enemies (but against high elves ironfist+light armour+trollguts would be awesome) but since its a massive increase from 39pts to 40pts (from AHW with no LA) it normally makes the cut.

The thing that really annoys me is that ogres lose their clubs if they have AHW or ironfists- the basic model is armour piercing (well, it squishes you to a pulp regardless of armour) but give them something else to play with and they lose that bonus.


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