# Combat Squads



## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

I use combat squads quite sucessfully. Never against horde armies (getting out numbered), always against elite armies. After putting up my list and reading suggestions for other peoples lists, it becomes clear that some members absolutely hate the idea of combat squads. Why is it that?

Had a little search through the forum and found this. This thread was started when the codex first came out. 

To the original posters of this thread, what do you think now?

Also when would you use combat squads? What is the benefit of combat squads against their risks?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I find that it's too easy for a unit to suffer 5 wounds in the current format - if Combat Squadded on foot it's simplicity itself for the opponent to force me to lap wounds onto my Special/Heavy weapon or Serg, and remove these non-standard guys. Once that's done they can essentially ignore the rest of the unit - something that cannot (easily) be done to a full ten men. Also, I would always, given the option, deploy inside a Rhino - preventing me from utilising the Combat Squads rule. The only exception is in a Drop Pod, when the choice is made upon arrival, rather than at deployment, and so it ca often be beneficial to CS, depending on LZ and resistance.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Why couldn't you Combat Squad and have half in transport? Both are Deployed at the same time..did I miss something? I don't play Loyalist Dogs.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Well, yes, you can - but you can't put both halves in the Rhino, so it's incredibly inefficient...


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

I can see your point with tactical squads, but what about other units that can combat squad?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Again, it makes wounding the more important members of the squad more vulnerable. I'm not saying there aren't times it's viable, or good even, but, as a general rule, Combat Squadding isn't the kind of thing you bet the farm on.


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## VictorLazarus (Mar 5, 2009)

If I have a rocket launcher in a squad it tends not to move so in an objective game it makes sense to take the flamer and the veteran out into a five man squad to grab objectives and get that flamer used.

MVL.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Combat Squadding works best with Devastators.
you always want big dev squads anyway, to soak up wounds for those precious heavies. Combat squads means you can mix your weapons purposes and ranges a litt,e, buy two heavy bolters and two lascannon for instance (though I prefer 4x ML, more frugal, more versatile), split them up and get two specialized fire teams for a single FOC slot. Or better, keep uniformity of purpose with the weapons, but split up anyway, so you can fire at different targets (four MLs or four lascannon can be overkill, better to fire two first and see if you can use the other two on something else)

When I take devs (not often) I always take 4xML and squad them off, 2 MLs per half


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

Galahad I fully agree with you. It is like dark lance spam (20 warriors and 2 dark lances). 

So bascially we are debating the increased flexibility and ultilisation against ease of being wiped out (or key members being killed). I think the weakest form of combat squading I use is the afore mentioned tactical squad and transport. Heavy weapon stays at the back with 4 guys in cover, while the others get stuck in, or go for late game objective grabbing. 

My bikes nearly always combat squad, due to their loadout. 3 melta weapons in one combat squad, will go off tank hunting. I have two of these. With the increased toughness and turbo-boosters they are quite surviable, and when they are outflanking, they are down right evil.

To me, overall, the benefits SLIGHTLY out weigh the risks (depending on who you are playing, and what mission (kill points?)), So...

Summary
+ more scoring units
+ more operational options (5 man + transport = objective grabber, etc.)
+ full ultilislation of weapons
- increased risk of key members being killed
- increased risk of squad being wiped out

Can anyone think of anything else?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Im a big fan of the combat squad rules... this really annoys me since SW dont have them. 

Having big 10 man units that can choose to split into 2 small units is great. Means that you have 1 unit for KP missions or 2 units for when you need them.

Their best uses as far as I see them are that you can leave a pod in reserve (so not the first one) with 10 tacs in, bring them in late in the game and split them to take 2 objectives- makes a good back up in case your defensive/offensive scoring units run into trouble (I do the same with my grey hunters but cant split.. have to spread the unit across instead).
Other use is for bikes, combat squadding bikes is a great use for them.

As a purely offensive task I like the idea of sternguard combat squadding out of drop pods. It means they can split fire onto 2 different targets- means that all their firepower can be brought to bear without worrying about over-killing the target... massive downside is that if you do this with enough enemies around you'll be toast in teh next turn.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I combat squad quite a lot, but not always. It's a big advantage in objective games.

When I'm guarding objectives I'll generally have one combat squad on the objective and one behind it, often hiding in a rhino. If (when) the first squad gets charged the second can reply. You could use a devastator squad for the front unit if you wanted, and you could add a dread in as well, but the general point is that 2 units of 5 guard a unit much better than 1 unit of 10.


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## WarlordKaptainGrishnak (Dec 23, 2008)

can you say: deploy with 10 marines in a rhino..move around a bit etc etc and then say disembark 5 marines...or if you are havign combat squads do they have to deploy separately at the beginning


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

I dislike Combat Squads strongly.

(In reference to Tactical Squads)
Yes, theoretically I can double my effective scoring units choices, allowing me to cover the entire map and try to do everything. Realistically, I end up splitting my units into bite size chunks to be taken out at my opponent's leisure, not having to worry about excessive ablative wounding since they are tiny squads, and allowing him to pick the weapons he wants (pick the AT weapons for Mechanized, the AI weapons for Horde).

Say I have a Flamer and Lascannon squad, something I see fairly often in Space Marine lists, to my continued rage, and I combat squad them. My opponent is going to spend his first turns probably lobbing wounds at the Lascannon squad, removing that threat before my Flamer squad is even in range, and his vehicles are able to counter that quickly due to my Lascannon being owned so easily. It is just stupid, with wound allocation in 5th, and it makes forcing Morale checks easy as pie, beyond the very first loss every time you take a casualty, you will take a check, 1 of your Combat Squads doesn't even get the benefit of it's Sarge's Ld, and the other is just as likely to lose him as not, since it lacks wounds, again.

In assault, something Space Marines should be passably good at, no matter the opponent, you are even more screwed, too few models and attacks to handle anything really. I've seen IG squads beat combat squads in combat, given the charge, it's simply horrible.


As for Scout squads, the same basic premise applies, except that you are just allowing Ld check after Ld check (for Cloak Snipers), or simply them being wiped out (for BP+CCW, no one uses Bolters). Terminators actually get a bit of a benefit I guess, since they are still decent in 5 man units due to their insane save and good weaponry. Sternguard get a big boost from it, if used in the Drop Pod w/ 2x Combi-Melta per CS idea. But on anything other than those 2 units, I hate it, with a passion.


I have heard that Bikes are good with it, but haven't used them enough to be comment on it, personally. I know Someguy likes them.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

WarlordKaptainGrishnak said:


> can you say: deploy with 10 marines in a rhino..move around a bit etc etc and then say disembark 5 marines...or if you are havign combat squads do they have to deploy separately at the beginning


Has to be declared at the start of the game, combat squads become seperate units and seperate units can never use the same transport (unless your playing Apoc and have a super-heavy transport).
The exception to this is drop pods: you combat squad when it hits the table but are then 2 different units for the rest of the game.

I get that Sqwerlpunk doesnt like them, and yes it does make your flamer/sgt/lascannon easier to kill but it does mean that all parts of a unit become useful- your lascannon is firing away merrily while your flamer/sgt are moving up to fry the enemy (transports do become much more useful).
Combat is both a blessing and a curse- I regard tacs as a pretty soft target in combat; a 5 man squad can be beaten by almost anything... but then a 10man squad can be crushed by quite a lot. Doubling your unit count means things like large genestealer units can only kill 5 men rather then 10, will also mean they cant be hidden in combat in your next shooting phase.

Combat Squads are nice options, but not an automatic choice... they do up your damage and scoring potential but also make you more fragile. If they didnt have a downside it would be near automatic, since they do its just another way to personalise the way your army fights.


PS- cant understand combat squadding termies though.. who takes 10 man termy units in 5th?!? now 2nd mebbe..


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I never Combat Squad. Ever.

At least as far as Tactical Marines go... well, they kinda suck. Their basic weapon leaves a lot to be desired compared to those of many other races, the Marines themselves aren't particularly cheap for what they can do, they're abysmal in close combat and aren't particularly mobile without a transport.

Splitting these units up just makes them worse in so many ways. Less shots from their basic weaponry, less close combat attacks, more Morale checks that have to be taken... sure, you get more units out of the deal. Sure, you'll be able to fire your heavy weapon more often, but the cons outweigh the pros in my opinion.

I'm too tired to go into other units right now... maybe later. :bye:


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Have to disagree about the humble Bolter there KD! Sure, a Pulse Rifle is better, and a Shoota is an assualt weapon...but the Shoota also has less AP. It's twice as good as a Shuriken Catapult, and still better than an Avenger Catapult. Far better than a Lasgun. Better than basic grunt Tyranid weapons. Gauss weapons are arguably better, but their 1/6 chance of hitting vehicles distracts them from their primary role - just because Bolters can fell a Land Speeder, doesn't mean it's a good idea to leave it to them. Overall, I think the Bolter is a very good basic gun - perhaps your Fleshtearer mindset is clouding your opinion of ranged combat...


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## Pandorav3 (Jan 30, 2009)

Devastators are the only time ive seen them used effectively, the sternguard idea might work, but i would think they would suffer the same problems as tac squads.


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## rdlb (Nov 30, 2008)

The boltgun is awesome, especially with BS 4. How can you not love the hail of bullets you get from ten marines? :biggrin:Where'd the Howling Banshees go? :biggrin:

I tried combat squading for a while just so my heavy weapon could fire while my assault weapon and sarge moved up. I agree that the units are just too small to be a threat and/or survive. I don't even combat squad my terminators, yes I usually take ten termies...

This weekend I played a five objective game against eldar. Two ten man squads meant two objectives I would definitely hold, as opposed to four I might kind of maybe hold


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

I think what could be the reason as to why my tactical combat squads do so well, is that they are never sent out on their own. They are always supported. With my bike army I use tac combat squads to flush out enemies in terrain (not so keen on sending the bikes in). The tac squad and supporting units will pour fire into the terrain and if they can take what is left they will charge.

Other times when they are used is with a transport. Bearing in mind that if you have troops in a transport, only the hull needs to be within three inches, they can be used for last turn objective grabbing. 

I feel there are situations when they should never be used. When fighting assault hordes (orks, nids, etc.) the last thing you want to do is split you squads so they get out numbered, but against elite armies (marines, eldar, etc.) they work very well. Not wanting to flame other peoples style of play, but people who say they are useless might what to try a more conservative style of play.:grin:

As for the bolter, I have to agree with TKE. Having come from playing tau, it is a bit of a downgrade, but it is superior to most other basic weapons.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Hmm, I'm almost tempted to start an entirely new thread just for the purpose of discussing bolters. :O


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I think that Combat Squadding is often vital against Nob Bikes - you can't afford for one guy to live, and let them escape being shot to shit by the rest of your army.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

TheKingElessar said:


> I think that Combat Squadding is often vital against Nob Bikes - you can't afford for one guy to live, and let them escape being shot to shit by the rest of your army.


That's one way of dealing with 'em, yup. Personally I'd rather feed them a unit of 10 men so I can bag a Nob or two with my power fist, then fall back and either escape or die to the ten zillion No Retreat saves I need to take.


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