# any idea what the Necrontyr looked like?



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

their metal skeleton forms look quite human

is there any concept art (even fan-made) of the Necrontyr (before they became Necrons)?


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

The fact that you don't know what they looked like before all adds to the mystery. It adds to the feeling that they can never go back to what they once were and are what they are for good or for ill.

That said, they appear very humanoid. I've always pictured them with fairly broad shoulders, drawn faces, and small, almost slit-like noses


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## Lord Khorne (May 6, 2008)

Egyptians/North Africans?


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I wonder if there are still scattered colonies of Necrontyr in the galaxy.
We know that Biotransference wasn't universally welcomed, and that the Necrontyr Empire was quite widely scattered. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that those furthest from the Throneworlds and who didn't like the idea, might have packed-up and buggered off for parts unknown?
There's nothing utterly alien about the Necrons, beyond their robotic minds. I wonder if any fleeing Necrontyr would have made an encampment in the Sol system; maybe the 3rd planet? It would be deliciously ironic if the Imperium and the Necrons were descended from the same faction.

GFP


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## Lord Khorne (May 6, 2008)

Except humans have a warp presence, Necrons don't.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

I always like Lord Lucan's fan interpretation of the Necrontyr. They were completely inhuman, sort of this weird insectoid creature mixed with a mollusc/octopi. It gelled really with with their short lifespans and these kind of generation spanning scientific efforts. 

Ultimately we don't know however. They may have been humanoid though i hope not as it would be a bit boring as every other sentient race is (barring the hrud). The skeletal humanoid forms may have been a fear tactic adopted for use against the Old One's and their warrior races who were humanoid. 

@GFP the timeline's don't really match up for that, nor does the evidence borne out. I can't imagine the C'tan and Necrons letting some Necrontyr avoid biotransferance given they crushed entire dynasties who resisted. Also would not humans be rather more advanced with necrontyr ancestors and technology. Then there is also the issue or warp presence.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Given the mindset of Zandrekh, it is reasonable to assume that their forms were at least humanoid. 

Personally, I have always imagined them as being physically reminiscent of the eldar: Tall, slender and humanoid. 

The reason for this is entirely my concoction, but bear with me.



We know that the necrons fought the Old Ones. It is hinted but never confirmed that the Old Ones were some sort of reptilian race, long lived and viewing the universe with a cold calculating logic, in stark contrast to the fiery headed necrontyr who clumsily sought immortality and conquest in their own way. 

When the war began, the necrontyr were at first the losing side. However with the intervention of the c`tan they became the necrons and siezed the upper hand. 

In response, the Old Ones created a race to fight the necrons. They moulded it in the image of their enemy: Tall, slender and humanoid. However where the necrontyr were short lived, hot headed and blind to the warp, the eldar instead inherited their creators gifts of long life, foresight and strong psychic ability. 

This would be seen as a personal insult by the necrons, as the Old Ones had bestowed the gifts unto another race that they themselves had long sought. 

Out on a limb here, but what if the Old Ones actually used the necrontyr physiology as the template, the basis, for the eldar form? :scratchhead:


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

The Necrons have no warp-presence because they have no soul. The new 'dex tells us that during Biotransference the C'tan feasted on the souls released as organic beings became inorganic, with the Silent King seeing what the Necrontyr had given up in their bargain. Which is a long way around to say that soul-bearing Necrontyr might have had a warp-presesnce, even if it were faint. 
As for timeline issues, without Dolmen Gates, and using Torch ships, it might be able to place them in the right place at the right time. Too low-tech? People fleeing in panic will only take the bare essentials and much knowledge will be lost if a fleet starts losing members.
I don't believe this is the case at all, but I do think it is a fun thought. Same as Serpion's conjecture; there might be more of a connection between the galaxy's various factions than any of them realise...

GFP


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

I really assume insectoid, the necrontyr weren't seeded by the old ones so have no reason to be humanoid.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

All of this is conjecture, but considering their pompous attitude I doubt their leaders would agree to take a form alien or even ugly by their standards. Hence when we take into account that a large number of their ruling aristocracy agreed to this procedure that the necrons were at least similar in form to the skeletal figures they now are (Or even found it esthetically pleasing). In fact its not beyond reason that they were in fact slender humanoid insects, and what we take as a skeletal form is just what their exoskeleton looks like. In fact they may actually look very similar to their original form.

I find this is the most logically sound take on their original form as every other theory requires far to much inference and blatant speculation.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> The Necrons have no warp-presence because they have no soul. The new 'dex tells us that during Biotransference the C'tan feasted on the souls released as organic beings became inorganic, with the Silent King seeing what the Necrontyr had given up in their bargain. Which is a long way around to say that soul-bearing Necrontyr might have had a warp-presesnce, even if it were faint.


Sorry to take this off topic, but........

No where does it say they feasted on their souls. It says that they fed on their life energy. All that we know is that they had souls before that, the C'tan fed on their life energy and put them in metal bodies, and now they do not have souls. Now, admittedly that could mean that they fed on their souls, but I would think it more likely that their souls simply passed into the warp once their bodies died.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

aboytervigon said:


> I really assume insectoid, the necrontyr weren't seeded by the old ones so have no reason to be humanoid.


Points out that there was little connection between the other Old One races in terms of physiology (krork, eldar, jokaero, hrud). The reason for being of this form is simply because evolution would have taken the practical approach. Hence, four limbs and anthromorphic form. 



LukeValantine said:


> All of this is conjecture, but considering their pompous attitude I doubt their leaders would agree to take a form alien or even ugly by their standards. Hence when we take into account that a large number of their ruling aristocracy agreed to this procedure that the necrons were at least similar in form to the skeletal figures they now are (Or even found it esthetically pleasing). In fact its not beyond reason that they were in fact slender humanoid insects, and what we take as a skeletal form is just what their exoskeleton looks like. In fact they may actually look very similar to their original form.
> 
> I find this is the most logically sound take on their original form as every other theory requires far to much inference and blatant speculation.


But Luke, speculation is what this is all about.  



gen.ahab said:


> Sorry to take this off topic, but........
> 
> No where does it say they feasted on their souls. It says that they fed on their life energy. All that we know is that they had souls before that, the C'tan fed on their life energy and put them in metal bodies, and now they do not have souls. Now, admittedly that could mean that they fed on their souls, but I would think it more likely that their souls simply passed into the warp once their bodies died.


This. There is no support to suggest that the c`tan _could_ feed on psychic energy, let alone would want to. 

Simply assume that their souls were lost to the void during biotransference. This theory is supported by evidence given in the novel Eisenhorn; that a certain synaptic structure is required to have a connection to the warp. 

Though the necrontyr`s minds were essentially copied and pasted, this physical connection to the warp could not be transferred in such a way and so it was lost. 

Further, this could simply be referring to the state of emotions before and after the transfer? The chemical reactions that exist in the flesh would not have made the transfer either, perhaps accounting for the change described by the Silent King. I suggest this because, as a race not seeded by the Old Ones, there is little reason to believe that the necrontyr even had souls to begin with.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I like Luke's idea that the Necrontyr looked skeletal even when they were biological (perhaps because they had exoskeletons)


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

Just look at the C'tan. The Necrontyr's 'gods' probably took a form that their subjects would recognize and identify with. Easier to get the mortals to do their bidding.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

SoulGazer said:


> Just look at the C'tan.


for reference...










Nightbringer looks quite skeletal actually


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

So other then being humanoid both examples don't seem to have much consistency. So going on the c'tan logic they may or may not have long head tendrils, be clawed hands, ect.


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

LukeValantine said:


> All of this is conjecture, but considering their pompous attitude I doubt their leaders would agree to take a form alien or even ugly by their standards. Hence when we take into account that a large number of their ruling aristocracy agreed to this procedure that the necrons were at least similar in form to the skeletal figures they now are (Or even found it esthetically pleasing).


I agree. It seems reasonable that any race undergoing biotransferance, would want to be placed in bodies they found esthetically pleasing. It also stands to reason that the Deceiver, wanting to make the Triarch more agreeable to the C'tan's plan, would want to present bodies they and their people would find pleasing. 

That begs the question of course, what did the Necrontyr find pleasing?

They could have wanted, as most humans would, a optimal version of their current form (thin, muscularly toned, attractive, etc.), or they could have wanted something altogether different. 

We know the Necrontyr envied the longer life span of the Old Ones. It was more clear in the previous dex, but the new one alludes to it as well...


> *Codex: Necrons*, pg. 6
> Only the Old Ones, first of all the galaxy's sentient life, were a prospective foe great enough to bind the Necrontyr to a common cause. Such a war was simplicity itself to justify, for the Necrontyr had ever rankled at the Old Ones' refusal to share the secrets of eternal life. So did the Triarch declare war upon the Old Ones.


I wonder if the Necrontyr envied other things concerning the Old Ones as well? For instance, could they have envied their physical form, or that of one of their created races? The soon to be preeminent Eldar perhaps? 

In a reverse of *Serpion5*'s theory concerning the Old Ones creating the Eldar form in the bipedal likeness of the Necrontyr, it's just as likely the Necrontyr took their new Necron forms from the possibly bipedal Old Ones or one of their genetically engineered bipedal races. 


Unless GW ever does a big reveal, we'll probably never get the answer to this.


Something else I was thinking about recently. In considering what the Necrontyr looked like pre-biotransferance, did the Necrontyr have females (assuming they didn't reproduce asexually or by some other method)? 

If so, are Necron warriors, etc. both male and female? Are the female forms something we haven't seen yet? Are they back on the tomb worlds performing some non military function? What do you guys think? 

In the Necrons present condition sex seems irrelevant, but if the Necrontyr did have male and female, something had to happen to them during biotransferance. As after biotransferance sex was to be a non issue, I'm leaning towards the warriors, etc. are made up of both sexes (again, assuming they had male and female). This could be why they chose a primarily unisex skeletal form. You know, one form fits all...

Anyway, another question we may never know the answer to, but considering the Necrontyr weren't always in robotic form it's an interesting question.




.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

> In a reverse of Serpion5's theory concerning the Old Ones creating the Eldar form in the bipedal likeness of the Necrontyr, it's just as likely the Necrontyr took their new Necron forms from the possibly bipedal Old Ones or one of their genetically engineered bipedal races.


The reasoning for my theory is that the Old Ones created many races in direct counter to the war with the necrons and c`tan. Before this, there is little to show that they favored any particular form, and only the barest hints that they even created races at all before war broke out. 

On the gender issue, it follows that a society like theirs would be male dominated. Therefore, much if not all of the nobility would have been men while women were reduced to being of a secondary nature except for perhaps queens and their daughters. 

Beyond this, lords, immortals, lychguard were all drawn from warrior castes which I imagine would have been male dominated. 

It is possible that there are necron leaders who may have been female, but as you pointed out after biotransference gender would no longer have been an issue.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Yes, there are female necrons. I has proof:


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Pic`s not working yo. 

Anyways, dA has invented plenty of them. And they all look terrible.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Uber Ork said:


> If so, are Necron warriors, etc. both male and female? Are the female forms something we haven't seen yet? Are they back on the tomb worlds performing some non military function? What do you guys think?


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Sorry, just got a picture of a necron female wearing an apron and vacuuming a tomb, just to realise that her vacuum cleaner is her long lost son.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> Pic`s not working yo.
> 
> Anyways, dA has invented plenty of them. And they all look terrible.


whatdday mean pic not working? I can see it just fine. Must be that your internet is broken or somethin like it.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

ThatOtherGuy said:


> whatdday mean pic not working? I can see it just fine. Must be that your internet is broken or somethin like it.


Then gimme a link or something so I can see it at the source! :angry: Because it ain`t showing up here.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> Then gimme a link or something so I can see it at the source! :angry: Because it ain`t showing up here.


http://1d4chan.org/wiki/File:245433.jpg

Quit your belly-aching...


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Should have figured it was fucking 4chan... 

_*disappointed facepalm*_


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Late to the party here, but...
About the souls thing. Yep, the new 'dex talks about the a C'tan feeding on cast-off life essence during the biotransfer (not souls, as I said), but the Silent King, in understanding why it was such a foolish thing to agree to, realises he's lost his soul in being made into his new form. It follows, then, that if he lost his soul and the air is thick with cast-off life essence, then the life essence can be equated, in some way, with the Necrontyr soul. 
At this point, I think that the nature of the C'tan has changed in the fluff; however, it would be a thread-jack beyond any reason to post it here. Also, i might try to work in my thoughts on the soul in 40k. (Unless, of course, I've already done that. search-fu, don't fail me now!) I'll have to walk the dog and see if I can organise my thoughts into some semblance of coherence that will make reading them interesting and not just random quacking. Penguins quack, don't they?

GFP


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> The reasoning for my theory is that the Old Ones created many races in direct counter to the war with the necrons and c`tan. Before this, there is little to show that they favored any particular form, and only the barest hints that they even created races at all before war broke out.


Yes I see what you're saying. If the Old Ones created races such as the Eldar to help fight their war against the Necron-C'tan alliance, these races wouldn't have been around early enough to have influenced the new form the Necrontyr were to take.

However, I'm still struggling with the new retroactively changed fluff and how it impacts the greater 40K universe as we know it.

In re-reading the fluff in the new Necron dex, I'm not even certain it can be clearly shown anymore that the Old Ones _even created other races._ In previous fluff this was very clear in the fluff, however, check out the sections detailing the Old Ones, the war in heaven, and the Eldar on pages 6 & 7 of the new Necron dex...


> *Under* "*The First Wars of Secession*"
> Only the Old Ones, first of all the galaxy's sentient life, were a prospective foe great enough to bind the Necrontyr to a common cause.
> 
> 
> ...


It says nothing about them seeding/creating other life (Eldar or otherwise). It just says they were the first of all sentient life in the galaxy, that they had allies in the war against the Necron/C'tan alliance, and that the Eldar fought alongside the Old Ones, survived the war, and were becoming preeminent. 

This makes me wonder about the the previous fluff concerning the Old Ones creating the Eldar, Krorks, Jokaero, etc. ...is it still active or even accurate? The Eldar dex (if memory serves) is pretty silent on the subject as to whether they were created by the Old Ones.

I only found this on pg 12 of the Eldar dex under "the Webway..."


> The webway is a labyrinth that exists between the material dimension and the Warp, part of both and yet not wholly in either. Created by the technologies once taught to the Eldar by the ancient races known as the Old Ones, its pathways lead to the craftworlds, to the surface of verdant worlds of the Exodites and to untold thousands of other worlds throughout the galaxy.



The DE dex says a little bit more, but still is pretty ambiguous. It says this on pg 8 at the very top of the page in the bold section directly under "Ancient History..." 


> The Eldar boasted the greatest civilization since that of the Old Ones, and the various descendant cultures that exist in the 41st Millennium are but pale reflections of their glory.



Strange as it is, the new Necron dex (as far as I've seen so far) doesn't seem to say or imply in any way that the Old Ones created the Eldar (or any race for that matter). As well, the Eldar dex (again, as far as I can see) says nothing about the Old Ones creating any races as well. The DE dex seems to get the closest with its "various descendant cultures" comment, but still, that's hardly conclusive as the "various descendant cultures" could just as well be "pale reflections" of the Eldar as they could of the Old Ones with how that sentence is written. 

All this has left me wondering... has the race creation fluff about the Old Ones been retrochanged?







Serpion5 said:


> On the gender issue, it follows that a society like theirs would be male dominated. Therefore, much if not all of the nobility would have been men while women were reduced to being of a secondary nature except for perhaps queens and their daughters.
> 
> Beyond this, lords, immortals, lychguard were all drawn from warrior castes which I imagine would have been male dominated.
> 
> It is possible that there are necron leaders who may have been female, but as you pointed out after biotransference gender would no longer have been an issue.


I agree. It does seem male dominated. All the special characters use male pronouns when describing them, and the Necron models all have a 'masculine build' to them (i.e. broad shoulders, slimmer hips, pecs verses breasts, etc.). I'm positive we'll never get the answer to this, but it's interesting to wonder about what happened to all the girls (again, if their race even had females).




.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Late to the party here, but...
> About the souls thing. Yep, the new 'dex talks about the a C'tan feeding on cast-off life essence during the biotransfer (not souls, as I said), but the Silent King, in understanding why it was such a foolish thing to agree to, realises he's lost his soul in being made into his new form. It follows, then, that if he lost his soul and the air is thick with cast-off life essence, then the life essence can be equated, in some way, with the Necrontyr soul.
> At this point, I think that the nature of the C'tan has changed in the fluff; however, it would be a thread-jack beyond any reason to post it here. Also, i might try to work in my thoughts on the soul in 40k. (Unless, of course, I've already done that. search-fu, don't fail me now!) I'll have to walk the dog and see if I can organise my thoughts into some semblance of coherence that will make reading them interesting and not just random quacking. Penguins quack, don't they?
> 
> GFP


:shok: Dude....... what? We have no reason to believe that life energy means soul.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> Should have figured it was fucking 4chan...
> 
> _*disappointed facepalm*_


I like it how you get angry at everything I do... Meaning that I must be doing it right.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Uber Ork, GW`s policy is that everything and nothing is canon. 

So, while nothing specifically states that the Old Ones created races in the new dex, nowhere is it contradicted either. For this reason I simply assume that the older fluff still stands wherever it is applicable. 

The next Eldar codex may shed more light on this, but I won`t be surprised if the fluff here is changing.


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## GoRy (Apr 1, 2008)

To be fair, it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility that they were Humanoid - The old ones created Eldar, which are essentially creepy humanoid elves with their heads jammed firmly up their backsides. It's not uncommon (According to some bloke called Darwin) to see nature develop the same response to the environment in different species - Dolphins vs Sharks, for example, in refernce to body shapes - so it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility that the old ones took the general humanoid shape for the Eldar from the Necrotyr - or the Necrons, for that matter - and added their own twist



Uber Ork said:


> Strange as it is, the new Necron dex (as far as I've seen so far) doesn't seem to say or imply in any way that the Old Ones created the Eldar (or any race for that matter). As well, the Eldar dex (again, as far as I can see) says nothing about the Old Ones creating any races as well. The DE dex seems to get the closest with its "various descendant cultures" comment, but still, that's hardly conclusive as the "various descendant cultures" could just as well be "pale reflections" of the Eldar as they could of the Old Ones with how that sentence is written.
> 
> All this has left me wondering... has the race creation fluff about the Old Ones been retrochanged?


Oooo, interesting. Previous fluff was pretty implicit, for both the Eldar and likely the Orks. You could be correct...


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

GoRy said:


> It's not uncommon (According to some bloke called Darwin) to see nature develop the same response to the environment in different species - Dolphins vs Sharks, for example, in refernce to body shapes


Going with this I'd say that a humanoid bodyform is likely a very good one for developing the intelligence so it's quite possible that humanoid forms would be naturally selected for space-faring races (which helps rationalize why they're so common in sci-fi).


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