# "The Lion" Questions... [minor spoliers]



## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Just finished the Lion and loved it, some questions I have are;

1. The Lion seems very... Diplomatic when dealing with traitor and loyal alike. He could have destroyed Typhon and his Death Guard, but didn't. Is this the start of the twist where the Lion plays the fence sitter in the Heresy? Tuchulcha mentions he's full of guilt. Guilt of considering siding with the traitors?

2. Why the distrust of Guilliman? He talks of him with as much distain as Horus.

3. The last part of the story really got me, it sounds like the Lion is becoming so paranoid he's losing his mind? Do you agree?

4. What the hell was the little guy/thing he was talking to at the end?

A great little read. The Lion seems far more 'unhinged' than I first thought.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

1. The lion has a sense of chivalry in him, as well a deep rooted distrust of everyone. He is the only one in his view that can make the tough decisions that needs to be made, and as he said, theres no way of knowing friend from foe. The Iron warriors already stole his giant artillery cannons

2. Gulliman wasn't popular, very few primarchs liked him and many loathed his existence. Lion thinks that gulliman is just as dangerous as horus, which considering he has one of the larger legions is perfectly understandable. After Horus is dealt with whats to to stop the G man from taking over everything (Which he actually did if you think about it, kinda making himself emperor)

3. I think the lion is a bit like magnus, caught in a war he doesn't want. while others are doing the glory work he is determined to, like corax, be justice (Unlike corax though the dispenses justice regardless, to who ever deserves justice being dealt to them, loyalist/ traitor/ friend/ foe all must answer, The night lords are especially unjust in their fighting style). I don't think hes losing his mind I think hes conflicted at what to do 

4. I think it was a watcher of caliban


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## Xisor (Oct 1, 2011)

1. The Lion doesn't necessarily grasp the full treachery of the traitors. He knows they're rebels, separatists, anti-Imperialists. He doesn't quite understand the underpinning reasons for their turn, exactly the gulf to which Lorgar has turned and.

2. If Horus has turned (and the Lion doesn't really comprehend the metaphysical treachery that Horus has wrought under Erebus' guidance and pressure), there's absolutely no reason that 'lesser' primarchs haven't: The Lion knows his own mind and knows that Horus, the best of them, is compromised. Everyone else could be. The things that Guilliman is doing and recommending... they're not 'totally sensible and 100% well explained'. Distrust comes easily when reliable knowledge is in short supply.

3. Arguably, yep. The Lion is having bridges of trust burnt everywhere. Though he's not losing his mind to the degree that, say, Night Haunter does, the Lion is nevertheless having all his reliable landscape destroyed: soon it'll only be him and his closest sons left that he can _completely_ trust, if even that.

4. As Barnster says: surely a Watcher in the Dark! (Envoy/rival/schismatic of the Cabal?)


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Brother Subtle said:


> Just finished the Lion and loved it, some questions I have are;
> 
> 1. The Lion seems very... Diplomatic when dealing with traitor and loyal alike. He could have destroyed Typhon and his Death Guard, but didn't. Is this the start of the twist where the Lion plays the fence sitter in the Heresy? Tuchulcha mentions he's full of guilt. Guilt of considering siding with the traitors?


Stories move at the speed of plot and with as much sense as they're provided by the author.

The Lion's treatment of Typhon just doesn't make sense given everything he *knows*. Mistrust of the Iron Hands might be justified given some qualifiers (various detachments of the Legions served under other Primarchs, blah blah, etc.), but literally _any_ Death Guard could have served as deliveryman for his ultimatum. In fact, given his later declaration that...



... he will stand up against all traitors...


... it is quite daft of the Lion to let several thousand *known* traitors go, since...



... he'll probably have to fight them again some other time.


Granted, the Lion is hedging his bets on his Legion being full strength and thus too dangerous to be messed with... but that doesn't reconcile with his strategic outlook and long-term plans. In his eyes, there are five major factions:

1. Horus and his fellow Traitors (nine Legions).
2. Guilliman and Imperium Secundus.
3. The Emperor and the Imperial Fists.
4. The Lion.
5. The Blood Angels, Space Wolves and the White Scars, who are supposedly loyal - but as of this point geographically separated.

The Lion doesn't have any reason to think he'll have to fight #3, but #1 is a definite enemy, #2 MIGHT become an enemy, and #5 is an unknown quality. The odds he could potentially have to deal with in battle will only become better as his enemies attrit themselves. As such, it makes NO sense for him to let something like 5% of an enemy Legion's combat power AND their second highest-ranking officer go free.

Ultimately, I think Gav thought it would be a good idea to throw in a big name to spice up the story. The problem with using such characters, though, is that you paint yourself into a corner in regards to what you can and cannot do. So from the second you saw Typhon in that story, you _knew_ he couldn't die... and thus the Lion was painted into an illogical corner.

As for the Lion's guilt, I'd propose that it deals with his knowledge of Caliban's taint and the fact that he didn't do enough to stop it.



> 2. Why the distrust of Guilliman? He talks of him with as much distain as Horus.


Horus is a traitor, but the ending of "Savage Weapons" implies (in conjunction with Guilliman's short story in the same series) that the Lion is aware that Roboute has written off the Imperium as a lost cause. He's setting himself up as the titular head of an "Imperium Secundus"... and even as he describes his thought process for doing so, he admits that he'll be perceived as a traitor. Given this, the Lion's perception of him is quite justified, IMHO.

And thus, the ending of this story, wherein...



... El'Jonson basically says he will act as a check against anyone who tries to seize power for themselves.




> 3. The last part of the story really got me, it sounds like the Lion is becoming so paranoid he's losing his mind? Do you agree?


No, I don't. I read that part as him talking with one of the Watchers in the Dark regarding stuff going on back in Caliban, etc.



> 4. What the hell was the little guy/thing he was talking to at the end?


One of the Watchers in the Dark.

Cheers,
P.


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