# How to make a competitive list



## Gothic (May 12, 2008)

I'm coming back to dark eldar but I would like to make a competitive list, can anyone help me please.

Gothic


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Play Eldar, or wait for the new Codex next month. Dark Eldar are in a bad place at the moment.


----------



## Gothic (May 12, 2008)

Yeah I didn't realise they were getting released till I saw the video but this is just practice before I make it using the new dex


----------



## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

From the looks of things DE are getting updated very soon so obviously wait to see what that brings (I expect it will make them uch easier and much more viable to use).

I myself don't play DE but i will just give you general tips on what I feel needs to be in any competitive list, and I expect other people will comment proving me completely wrong but thats the beauty of a discussion 

With the advent of 7th it makes it easier to cut out the weaker units that are filling the troops slot (especially in DE) though objective secured is incredibly good and DE's ability to get a lot of transports around quickly can really benefit them in Maelstrom of War missions. So try an weigh up the bonuses of that and if you can find an alternative go unbound and trying and push an armies strengths (though for unbounds to work you really need to be able to exploit it with at least 3+ of a power unit)

Objectives are the key to winning any game so you need to think how you are going to get them, whether its TaCos in whcih case you need to be able to move and adapt quickly, or standard missions and just be able to capture back fireld objectives while defending your own. 

Then there is countering your opponent. Always make sure you have enough weapons to be able to deal with enemy vehicles. In 7th you can't survive by just taking a couple of higher str guns, you need specific low AP high strength guns so that you can get rid of vehicles quickly (lances will do the trick so make sure you have several). These should also be good for taking on monsters too so that I generally see as going into the same category.

If your enemy is running a horde army like orks, will you have enough sots to keep them back? Or get out there way? Or even be able to take them on in CC? How are you going to deal with large infantry blobs? lots of shots will always help but sometimes this means having to cut down elsewhere, though it does generally mean you get in more bodies which is never a bad thing.

DO you have any AA? now flyers are a lot less common nowadays but if your enemy brings one what are you going to do? Have your own is generally the best advice and as far as I'm aware theDE one is good (and there is meantto be som new bomber model for the new book).

Quite simply think about what the enemy is going to be bringing and see if you can counter it wether that is lots of 2+ saves, lots of bodies, vehicles high toughness etc. while trying to balance your own objective skills. A lot of the time you will have to skimp on some areas but as you play more games you will realse what is good or bad about what you have used.

hope that helped


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

falcoso said:


> Quite simply think about what the enemy is going to be bringing and see if you can counter it wether that is lots of 2+ saves, lots of bodies, vehicles high toughness etc. while trying to balance your own objective skills. A lot of the time you will have to skimp on some areas but as you play more games you will realse what is good or bad about what you have used.


I'm not a tournament player like @Sethis but as far as I'm aware, this isn't the way to win a tournament - you win not by bringing counters to everything the enemy can bring (impossible due to the diversity in 7th anyway, in my opinion), but by bringing one thing to the extent of all else. Bring an army of nothing but Venoms with 3-man units of Wracks inside. Bring an army of Land Raiders with minimal Black Templar units inside. Bring an army of Knights. Do one thing really, really well and force the enemy to react to you.

Leastways, that's the way I would have thought it worked (and why I thought the CronAir and Leafblower and Razorwolf and Serpent Spam and Tritide lists worked - the only difference being there that the unit being saturated was already a very efficient one, therefore making the saturation stronger than, say, saturating Land Raiders which is far less common at tournaments).


----------



## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

MidnightSun said:


> Do one thing really, really well and force the enemy to react to you.





falcoso said:


> With the advent of 7th it makes it easier to cut out the weaker units that are filling the troops slot (especially in DE) though objective secured is incredibly good and DE's ability to get a lot of transports around quickly can really benefit them in Maelstrom of War missions. So try an weigh up the bonuses of that and if you can find an alternative go unbound and trying and push an armies strengths (though for unbounds to work you really need to be able to exploit it with at least 3+ of a power unit)


That's why I breifly mentioned it on this^ I wasn't sure what the DE ones would be so I ddin't mention it. But I personally think both aproaches work, as if you spam something like knights if the TO hasn't restricted the amount you can bring) or venoms, if your opponent has something that can easil counter it (e.g. crons in general and especially barges) you are going to die horribly.


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

"Competitive" can mean several different things.

Are you looking to smash face at your local club?
Local tournaments?
National Tournaments?

There's no point giving advice on Dark Eldar specific issues since the whole picture will change in two weeks time, so here's a shopping list of what you need to be able to counter (or at least survive without getting tabled):

- 2 Wraithknights + Serpents
- 4 Riptides
- Imperial Knights, singly or in Multiples
- 5+ Serpents
- 5+ Pod Armies throwing 15 or more scoring units over the table
- Flying MCs (melee versions took a nerf, but Psychic/Shooty ones are still plenty powerful)
- Airforce themed armies
- Orks? Maybe? Does anyone have info on where they're at, competitively? I've not seen them used.

Now you don't need to be able to easily defeat all of the above - the lists are so diverse that you can't possibly have an easy time against all of them using a single army design. However there are three main themes:

- Vehicle spam
- MC spam
- Scoring unit spam

Have a plan against those three archetypes, even if your plan against MCs has to be "run away/speedbump" in order to build a list that can viably take on vehicles or unit hordes, for example.

As far as I know (and I could be wrong) the most competitive "pure" Dark Eldar build - i.e. not just allying Baron into a Craftworld list - is minimum squads of Wyches with Haywires in Venoms with Tri-Ravager/Flyer support and pretty much whatever is cheapest for the HQ - sprinkle in Reaver Jetbikes w/ Heat Lances if you have points spare. If anyone knows of a better unallied DE build then feel free to correct me.

Edit:

To respond to @MidnightSun then he's right - rock/paper/scissors is fairly prevalent in 7th simply because it's easier in the current game rules to dominate two out of three games, and lose/draw in the third, than it is to do moderately well in all three games, for example. However DE are pretty awful at this as they don't scale very well at all once the points go above, say, 1500. You can fit your Venom spam into that easily enough, but then you start having to fill your points with suboptimal units just to make up the numbers, since you're limited (most of the time) to 6 Troops and 3 HS slots.

Of course you could ally, but if you're going to do that then you're better off simply using Craftworld Eldar with three DE units added to them.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Sethis said:


> - Orks? Maybe? Does anyone have info on where they're at, competitively?


They're not dominating any tournaments and it's still early days, but the few bits and pieces I've seen so far have implied a pile of WS5 Fearless Meganobz in Scouting Battlewagons. Not sure how that works out for tournaments that don't allow multiple formations - likely the Meganobz will be regular Meganobz and go to WS4, Ld7 and at risk from the 4-6 result of Mob Rule, which significantly curbs their effectiveness since you can almost get rid of them _purely_ through Tank Shocking transports at that point.

So at least 30 2+ save wounds with reasonable anti-infantry and incredible melee capacity Scouting in your face, a couple of the squads having Feel No Pain. Fire support from Mek Gunz, either Traktor Kannons (horrifyingly potent anti-air, whether Flyer or FMC) or Mega-Kannons (very effective anti-heavy infantry killer), both on very tough platforms. Also a Warboss with a 2+ re-rollable armour save at T5, which is one of those odd units that's really weak to one type of firepower (AP2 or 1) and almost totally immune to everything else. Beware him in a unit of Boyz to take the Blaster hits for him.


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I'd be very interested to see how that plays out against White Scars, but I don't know anyone who has either army. :grin: I imagine a lot rides on who gets first turn.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Sethis said:


> I'd be very interested to see how that plays out against White Scars, but I don't know anyone who has either army. :grin: I imagine a lot rides on who gets first turn.


I can see someone pulling a trick of putting a bunch of models in Outflank, but yes, Second Turn Syndrome is pretty severe in that matchup as far as I can tell


----------



## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

MidnightSun said:


> Meganobz in Scouting Battlewagons.


Wait how would you get scouting battlewagons with meganobs?



Sethis said:


> I'd be very interested to see how that plays out against White Scars, but I don't know anyone who has either army. :grin: I imagine a lot rides on who gets first turn.


I will have to try this. I just started building a white scars army so this could be interesting.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

morfangdakka said:


> Wait how would you get scouting battlewagons with meganobs?


Blitz Brigade and Bully Boyz formations from Waaagh! Ghazghkull. Pile a bunch of WS5 Fearless Fear-causing Meganobz into Scouting Battlewagons, mix up with Shoota Boyz, Warboss in Mega Armour with Lucky Stikk, and Mek Gunz. It's not perfect, but it definitely looks like a powerful option.


----------

