# GK being op?



## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

So I just witnessed a Deamon Prince of Tzeench destroy a DreadKnight. The GK player tried to pull off every single trick in the book to try and win, even claiming his DreadKnight had every type of grenade known to man.

Why do people who play OP armies act like douchebags? Also, thy arn't that OP IMO.


----------



## buckythefly (Mar 16, 2009)

There tends to be a breed of player out there I like to call the "Early Adopter" that tends to jump on every neat sounding new codex with a new army, sadly grey knights once a proud small group of players have been kind of invaded. Basically these smegs pick up the new codex (Dark Eldar, Blood Angels, Grey Knights) some power units they read about online and then get furious when their new army doesn't automatically win, thus transitioning to whatever new codex comes out next. I've seen it, its funny. 

These tend to be the players that will fly off the handle rather then the people who're invested in their fighting force, and put a lot of time and effort into making them beautiful and effective on the table. Although, to be fair I've seen some grown men have little "shit-fits" when something gets whipped out early or doesn't go well for them. So eh. As far as grey knights being overpowered, their really not, they have some strong units and nifty strategies but far are they from unbeatable and overpowered...if anyone is that space wolves codex is cutting it close, but even they aren't toooo bad.


----------



## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

I've been playing my GK force since 3rd edition. They were as hard as ever back then. Now that my little GK force is a lot better, I don't throw little hissy fits when I loose, although I have seen grown men do it.


----------



## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

Pardon my ignorance, but what's OP?

edit: wait, overpowered?


----------



## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes, I come from a long time of playing World of I'm going to steal all your money. Just an abbriviation.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

the place you play seems to have alot of "douchebags" considering this is your second post in this section this week ranting about players, maybe you should be ranting at the people at the club or the organisers rather than starting new ranting threads, or at least tack this rant on to your last one.


----------



## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

If spamming posts is starting to annoy you i'll stop. I've just been sick over the past week and sitting at home with nothing more to paint or build, I forum camp. 

Not making excuses to my behaviour or anything. I also just have this personality where I'm nice to everyone I meet, unless they annoy the absolute crap out off me, or just generally make me angry at the time. If they annoy me a little at the time I'll still be nice, but I talk about it with other people. So maybe I'm just a giant dick, but yeah, its my process. 

Also, if my ranting is annoying I will stop. Thank you for telling me about it though.


----------



## Phrazer (Oct 14, 2008)

If i didnt have a nice rant in RL every couple of days i think my head would explode!!


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Ranting in forums is fair enough, but ranting about the same topic twice in a week is pointless, you have an an entire forum with numerous members all willing to share there combined knowledge about every aspect of the hobby, go read the fan fiction section or the art gallery or the modeling tutorials etc chat to some folks, take your mind off the shite game you had, i have already noticed your two rants, as will others and if your not careful you will get the "Ranty Ranterson" badge and nobody will want to listen to you when you have a genuine issue.

OH and dont take the games you play so seriously, its a game within a hobby,if the people you play with are spoiling your enjoyment, find new people who dont make you feel that way.


----------



## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

Two in two days. Even I think its a bit much for just a general rant.


----------



## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

No one comments on my story anymore ):

Thats a joke, lighten up. Although I actually am writing one. Take a look and leave some CnC so I can improve on it.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92968&highlight=bound+blood

Edit: Please


----------



## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

I think kits is overreacting. Afterall, our glorious leader says "it's quantity not quality that counts"


----------



## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

You confuse me. I see you as my friend on this site. You defend me and comment on my posts, and you correct my grammer and debate things with me 

So honestly at the moment, I sence sarcasm  this has nothing to do with the post but still....

I hope its not sarcasm D:


----------



## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

It isn't sarcasm!


----------



## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

I still don't want to be known as the kid who rants at almost everything.


----------



## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

Then stop ranting and check out my plog!

I can sympathise with being home all day. I'm getting alot of painting done!


----------



## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

Check out my sotry first! 
Already did check it out 

I found some cardboard and made some crappy rubble and ruins.
Alas, nothing left to paint or build.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

First off, that dudes an ass. 

Secondly, GKs are not OP.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

GK are not OP, that is true, but if you run a min-max list that leaves you weak in an area that the GK are strong then you will have a tough time.


----------



## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

The above posts have the right of it. Douchebags switch armies a lot, and Grey Knights are the new army. The only way to solve this is not to play with them. If they dominate your local game store/group, then don't play there. I've found that these players go wherever the owners/organziers are the most lenient, and allow them to bend/break the rules and fly into tantrums. The only solution is not to play there.

Grey Knights aren't overpowered, although Daemons have a lot of trouble against them, but hey, that makes sense, considering their fluff. The GK are top tier, in my opinion, but not as strong as any of the other top tier armies (BA, SW, IG), because of their low model count, and the fact that no matter what abilities they have, they aren't any harder to shoot to death than normal vanilla marines.


----------



## SlamHammer (Mar 28, 2011)

mynameisgrax said:


> The above posts have the right of it. Douchebags switch armies a lot, and Grey Knights are the new army. The only way to solve this is not to play with them. If they dominate your local game store/group, then don't play there. I've found that these players go wherever the owners/organziers are the most lenient, and allow them to bend/break the rules and fly into tantrums. The only solution is not to play there.
> 
> Grey Knights aren't overpowered, although Daemons have a lot of trouble against them, but hey, that makes sense, considering their fluff. The GK are top tier, in my opinion, but not as strong as any of the other top tier armies (BA, SW, IG), because of their low model count, and the fact that no matter what abilities they have, they aren't any harder to shoot to death than normal vanilla marines.


I always found this to be true as well. As a long time player of the Inquisition and thier Grey-Clad Warriors, I noticed a lot of players jumping into Grey Knights without the slightest clue how the army plays. They then complain when it is not a free win like they expected and make us vetrans look bad.

As for overpowered, not exactly. There are some situations and against certain army lists (not Codexes) where Grey Knights seem unbeatable. However, against other army lists, Grey Knights are playing with an inherant handicap. It is players that fail to see this that claim Grey Knights are over powered and cheesey, rather then just another army out there.


----------



## Wingman (Jun 27, 2011)

We have a place similar to that in Long Beach GW bunker, our FLGS calls it the "biker bar". I've beaten GK with my Tau more than once so I hardly consider them OP and if people start to get angry I just joke around with them for a bit although I'm not winning tons so most people don't get angry at me in WH40K. My Dark Elves are a different story :laugh:


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I`ve played GK twice. 

Once as tyranids. I was tabled completely. My only notable kills were his Librarian and one of two terminator squads. His Libby only died due to Perils of the Warp though, so that`s not really my kill. :laugh: 

The next time I vs`d them I was using Dark Eldar. It was childs play, my boats ran rings around them while my kabalite warriors shredded them with splinter fire. Drazhar is also very good. Very. :biggrin:


----------



## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

At my LGC the owner quizzes new people who come to play, last weekend the conversation went a bit like this

Craig (owner) "What army you got"
Kid "Grey Knights"
C "Ok so how would you react when I beat you with my Deamons"
K "I'd call you a cheat cos thats not possible"
C "Get out of my f**king shop!"

i'm still giggling now


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

I think a lot of people use the "Overpowered" or "Broken" tags a little lightly. Usually, it comes from not having read the new codex yet and getting a lot of surprise new abilities thrown at them that they weren't ready for. I, for one, generally hated the new dark eldar codex when it first came out because it forced me to learn all their new abilities and wargear and rethink strategies. I don't like it when I have to go out and buy a new codex for an army that I'll never play, just so I won't be overwhelmed by new rules or wargear.

That doesn't mean they are overpowered. However, if you only look at all the new advantages and don't consider the new disadvantages, then they might seem really tough to beat. Generally, a person with a new codex won't advertise to his opponent all the weaknesses of his army, but is more than likely to brag about all the strengths. So, if you don't dig into the codex yourself, you come away with lopsided, partial representation of the army.

On the bright side, I tend to not play against players that play armies from the imperium (except IG or Space Wolves or Dark Angels, they've all got chaos potential). If a GK player wants to play me, I'll just abdicate, because any true legion of the emperor would not fight against the Imperium's Inquisitorial forces. Instead, I just whip out one of my Xenos armies.


----------



## a_bad_curry (Mar 10, 2011)

Solution to beating grey knights
Step 1. Play a horde army
Step 2. Insist on a game at 500pts or less. Dont let him go even 1 point over
Step 3. Insist on proper force organisation
Step 4. Laugh

Edit-Yes! I have perfected the art of being an asshole!


----------



## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

mynameisgrax said:


> ... their low model count, and the fact that no matter what abilities they have, they aren't any harder to shoot to death than normal vanilla marines.


I hear people saying this a lot, and to be honest I think this is somewhat of a fallacy. They have a much higher damage output than most other models; more damage means less return fire. They're also kings of suppression fire- they can quite happily shake a ton of tanks and even knock a couple out in the process. So really, GKs don't die like marines at all. This isn't to say that GKs are at all overpowered; I'd say they're right alongside BAs and perhaps a smidge (and a tiny smidge at that) behind SW and IG.



a_bad_curry said:


> Solution to beating grey knights
> Step 1. Play a horde army
> Step 2. Insist on a game at 500pts or less. Dont let him go even 1 point over
> Step 3. Insist on proper force organisation
> Step 4. Laugh


...Or just harden up and bring a balanced list using decent tactics. 

GKs laugh at horde- purifiers are a bitch, they all have stormbolters as standard, their main weapons are based on rate of fire and they have access to the second best flamer (in my opinion) in the game on their infantry. If you ask for a 500pt game any sane player will decline unless they're just building their force- the same goes for any army. GK players do use proper force organisation, I've no idea what you're talking about there. Unless you're talking about FOC swap characters, in which case you're just trying to cheat the GK player out of using an ability he paid for.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

a_bad_curry said:


> Solution to beating grey knights
> Step 1. Play a horde army
> Step 2. Insist on a game at 500pts or less. Dont let him go even 1 point over
> Step 3. Insist on proper force organisation
> Step 4. Laugh


Or, become a man and play a proper game.


----------



## hells (Mar 11, 2011)

gk's, hmmmm, they are a tad strong with the paladin spam, of curse the only time ive versued them is in tournements and well even though id wipe them to a man stupid rules made me lose X3.

anyway in both tournements this year up here both winners were gk's same guy whod rock up pure paladin forces, most of the stories from the other armies who vsed the paladins were comparing who got the most kills, which on average was 1 or 2 of them, the 2 wounds per model with a 2+ save was rather strong against most armies. and in kill points they are horredous ><

yeah its how i lost, having an army with 15 kill points vs an army with 5 kill points is a tad annoying, lost the game with 2/3rds of my army on the table while he had one model hiding other side of table so it didnt die, sif i lost X3


----------



## VX485 (Feb 17, 2011)

I'v only played them once and against a very inexperienced GK player, went really well for my IG, so wasnt a real representation of what they can do i think. I'v also played against 2 very experienced SW players with IG and they have been real nail biters of games.

The only army i have trouble with and i really dislike it BA. And every power gamer there has jumped on them (im not counting existing BA players). That said i came very close to beating them yesterday


----------



## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

l have many armies that also includes GK's

l find them a bit OP with some builds but over all there fine. Don't worry we will see a new rant about Nercons soon.


----------



## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

I don't think they are OP, certinally better then they were in 3rd, but not OP as such.
New people just seem to think they are OP and instantly jump on them as an OP army, and are suprised when they loose.


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

GK's get a power weapon and storm bolter for 5 pts.... bad part is, they don't have a choice of not buying them. Overall, I'd say they have more strengths than weaknesses and tournament results back this up. 

I've played them about 3 times since the release of the new codex. 1 win, 1 loss before i'd looked at the codex and the opponent took advantage of my ignorance, and another loss but it was a 3 v 3 situation.


----------



## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

Maybe the title of this thread is a little confusing.

But I find them to be a hassle if you havn't read the new rules, or its a new GK player. the thread was more aboy the 'bandwagon jumpers.' The new people who jump on a new army due to the fact that its a good list and can be competitive, when they don't know how to play and get stomped on.

Then complain about loosing. It certainly gives veterens a bad name when they roll out an old army for the first time since the release. Also, people who abuse the fact that a good build is hard to counter, like henchmen spam. I'm going to purposly play a friendly game and henchmen bomb the living shit out of you. 

Fun for everyone.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Dickheads are dickheads, GKs are no more OP than Tau are, cos nothing is - there are Underpowered things, but the standard is clearly higher than Necrons, CSM, Orks, Eldar and Daemons can truly aspire to.


----------



## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

I thought Daemons could be semi-competitive?
Before the recent GK codex obviously....


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Well, kinda. But not unless played by a very very good player - and GKs are pretty much a nail in their coffin.


----------



## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

TheKingElessar said:


> Dickheads are dickheads, GKs are no more OP than Tau are, cos nothing is - there are Underpowered things, but the standard is clearly higher than Necrons, CSM, Orks, Eldar and Daemons can truly aspire to.


"SHhhhh my demonettes its all lies, yes lies...."



Mindlessness said:


> I thought Daemons could be semi-competitive?
> Before the recent GK codex obviously....


if you have a really good demons player they are pretty top-tier. the problem for demons is that its impossible to game plan your opponents in tournies you need at least 2 when thinking of your list X2 against every army style it just becomes impossible if your not steven hawking.

--------

personally i have no problems with GKs as a whole, i think the "psybolt ammo" upgrade is a little unbalancing and that they are ungodly cheap compared to other "elite" units (Cult troops)


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Eh, Cult Troops (and by that I only mean the good ones, Plague Marines) are better under enemy fire, and provide greater anti-tank, even if shorter ranged.


----------



## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

As a new player to 40k (after 13-14 years away) I do find that the one older player who looks on with dread at every child buying grey knights is a fantastic game and have learnt a few tricks to use when playing against these kids.

I can see how people can think that they are OP but only really with certain builds/against certain builds, i mean for example two players in out LGC play Grey Knights the other is a Daemon player and man that was a good battle a very very hard won victory for the daemons player..all the kids around the board just couldn't understand how he pulled it off


----------



## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

TheKingElessar said:


> Well, kinda. But not unless played by a very very good player - and GKs are pretty much a nail in their coffin.


Which is my real gripe with the GK 'dex... Too many hienously unbalancing abilities vs 1 specific army which has made daemons pretty much unplayable in tournaments now.

Warp Quake is broken as shit - it should have just been left to the Strike Squads IMHO, as that way, if the GK player wanted to be a huge dick, he'd at least have to rely on a transport to help cover more ground...
Interceptors are a no-brainer as even just a single 10 man squad can really ruin any list that's built around or else forced to use deep strike.

Dark Ex is piss poorly worded... So it also nixes steeds (for those morons who can't read an FAQ) & marks that have been applied to any daemon.

Their force weapons can insta-gibbing daemons... So you need to fail a Ld10 test, not likely, but roll enough of 'em and it's going to happen for sure! (and typically at the worst possible time too!)
Truesilver armour is just dumb. Nice and cheap for dreads, and it's a surefire way to likely cripple most daemon squads due to it being a S6 auto-hit per blow that's landed! (and really, if you've only got a few pts leftover, why not take it on a venerable?!)

Banishers are plain nasty and they pretty much nerf the only viable build daemons have by taking Fateweaver's ability out of play... Again, if you're going Henchman spam, then it's well worth the investment of a banisher in your assaulty squad/s because if you run into daemons, he pretty much assures a victory. (against everyone else, well he's an ablaitive wound for the rest of the squad!)

S5 storm bolters for only 2pts/model (because who honestly doesn't take 10 man PA squads?!) is a bit too cheap as well, considering the marine stats... Again, it only needed to be a proper 'X pts/model' upgrade and it would have been fine.
Cheaper to use on smaller squads, more of a hit for bigger squads to take into account that volume of fire hurts more in bigger squads! (less chance for the dice to screw you over...) Plus it would have made the upgrade viable for regular termies. (I have yet to see a basic termie squad of more than 6 honestly.)



Daemon players have a right to be pissed because GK's went too far against us... It's one thing to be 'good' against daemons, with 'free' abilities like Prefered Enemy, the Daemonbane buff & the grenades...
But GK's have just too many easy to spam toys that are beyond effective vs the poor daemons.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

...I actually kinda lol'd at that.

Most of the things you name as being uber against Daemons are actually shit (Banishers, Dark Ex and ESPECIALLY Truesilver!!) and Interceptors are FAR too expensive to be a no-brainer.

Warp Quake isn't THAT broken vs Daemons, as you shouldn't DS close enough you can scatter anyway - and Fateweaver is fucking bollocks - the only viable build daemons have is 4 Tzeralds, 18 Fiends, 3 DPs, and Troops to fill, preferably Plaguebearers, but Horrors have a shitty anti-tank shot, so they're fine.


----------



## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

l am yet to see a GK player take Banishers, Dark Ex and or Truesilver.
why? because most GK players don't have that many spare points just in case they vs a daemon player.


----------



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Blah blah blah, true in tournaments most GK players will aviod spending points on stuff like dark ex, but the fact remains that they are in the list and will gib daemons. How would everyone like it if the next CSM book had a ability that stripped SoB of power armor? Peaple would idiotically say who takes SoB in a tournament, but the fact remains that giving a strong book any ability to specifically mangle a list (Especially a weak army) is a retarded idea.

Its the principle of the matter that is at fault.


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Warp spawned scum deserve to be banished back to their ill-gotten realm. The unholy daemons of the warp will be cleansed in the righteous fire of the emperor!

Hmm... Choppas come to mind.


----------



## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

LukeValantine said:


> How would everyone like it if the next CSM book had a ability that stripped SoB of power armor? Peaple would idiotically say who takes SoB in a tournament, but the fact remains that giving a strong book any ability to specifically mangle a list (Especially a weak army) is a retarded idea.



If they were called "Girls in Power Armor Hunters" I would have no issue with it.


----------



## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> but the fact remains that giving a strong book any ability to specifically mangle a list (Especially a weak army) is a retarded idea.
> 
> Its the principle of the matter that is at fault.


well here the thing.

with IG, GK or Orks l can "mangle a list" from any army.

For example if my GK are vsing an green tide then purifiers will ruin there day, if l take IG pie plates if l take Orks etc, etc, etc.

my point is most army books can build a list just to beat one kind of army (yes even CSM). But odds are you will make this list only able to beat that army and fail hard when a diffident army comes along thus in tornys most people run things that can be good vs many things not just one army.

P.S. if a GK army take's pests over psycannons l will be shock unless 75% of the players there run daemons.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

experiment 626 said:


> Which is my real gripe with the GK 'dex... Too many hienously unbalancing abilities vs 1 specific army which has made daemons pretty much unplayable in tournaments now.


So no different than before the release of the Grey Knight Codex.



> Warp Quake is broken as shit - it should have just been left to the Strike Squads IMHO, as that way, if the GK player wanted to be a huge dick, he'd at least have to rely on a transport to help cover more ground...
> Interceptors are a no-brainer as even just a single 10 man squad can really ruin any list that's built around or else forced to use deep strike.


A lot of Grey Knight players don't even use Strike Squads - Purifiers, Terminators, Paladins and Henchmen tempt people far more. The lists that do take Strike Squads are generally shooty enough that they can eat Daemons alive anyway, so it's a wash. Interceptors are a little bit of a different story since they can fit into almost any list, but it's dangerous for Daemons to drop too close to the enemy anyway so it isn't the biggest deal.



> Their force weapons can insta-gibbing daemons... So you need to fail a Ld10 test, not likely, but roll enough of 'em and it's going to happen for sure! (and typically at the worst possible time too!)
> Truesilver armour is just dumb. Nice and cheap for dreads, and it's a surefire way to likely cripple most daemon squads due to it being a S6 auto-hit per blow that's landed! (and really, if you've only got a few pts leftover, why not take it on a venerable?!)


It's actually pretty hard to even wound big Daemons with force weapons at all. Hammerhand helps a lot, but most Greater Daemons can carve a squad of Knights in half before they strike unless halberds are part of the equation... but then why are we playing Daemons in a tournament again?



> Banishers are plain nasty and they pretty much nerf the only viable build daemons have by taking Fateweaver's ability out of play... Again, if you're going Henchman spam, then it's well worth the investment of a banisher in your assaulty squad/s because if you run into daemons, he pretty much assures a victory. (against everyone else, well he's an ablaitive wound for the rest of the squad!)


Banishers are good because they're a hidden chainfist in a points-light unit. The rest so rarely comes into play I wouldn't be surprised if most people forgot about it.



> S5 storm bolters for only 2pts/model (because who honestly doesn't take 10 man PA squads?!) is a bit too cheap as well, considering the marine stats... Again, it only needed to be a proper 'X pts/model' upgrade and it would have been fine.


Lots of people don't take 10 man units. Purifiers are usually run in small units.



> Daemon players have a right to be pissed because GK's went too far against us... It's one thing to be 'good' against daemons, with 'free' abilities like Prefered Enemy, the Daemonbane buff & the grenades...
> But GK's have just too many easy to spam toys that are beyond effective vs the poor daemons.


Daemon players have a right to be pissed because their army is crap (I feel your pain, my Daemons sit in a box in my closet). It has nothing to do with the Grey Knights Codex, it just so happens that the Knights beat Daemons even harder than every other decent army in the game.

Grey Knights aren't even close to OP. If people want to complain about something in the Grey Knight Codex, it should be Rifleman Dreads with psybolts or Fortitude, both of those are very, very good for their cost (note: *very good*, not overpowered).


----------



## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Grey Knights aren't even close to OP. If people want to complain about something in the Grey Knight Codex, it should be Rifleman Dreads with psybolts or Fortitude, both of those are very, very good for their cost (note: *very good*, not overpowered).


Depends on your defenition for overpowered. I always think it means that the unit is too cheap for its abilities. Its true that most of the GK dex is priced about right, but some of it is way too cheap and has stupid abilities (the teleporting dreadknights for instance).

Just because an army is beatable doesnt mean certain parts are not 'broken' or OP.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

humakt said:


> Depends on your defenition for overpowered. I always think it means that the unit is too cheap for its abilities. Its true that most of the GK dex is priced about right, but some of it is way too cheap and has stupid abilities (the teleporting dreadknights for instance).
> 
> Just because an army is beatable doesnt mean certain parts are not 'broken' or OP.


Lots of armies have individual models, units or upgrades that cost too little (and too much). It just doesn't matter in the end because the army as a whole is still beatable by other armies that take advantage of their best parts (unless those armies are garbage as a whole, which is an unfortunate fact of 40K).


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

But Dreadknights are shit, simply because they compete for a slot with the only reliable ranged anti-tank option the book has for under 190 points.

Jaysen's point about the Choppa rule is an excellent one.

Luke - you're being silly, Grey Knights and Daemonhunters have ALWAYS curbstomped Daemons 1v1, and always should. If they couldn't, then they'd be betraying the fluff in an unforgivable way. 

And if ANYTHING, Warp Quake is less OP than Sanctuary in the last book - or Mystics.


----------



## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

TheKingElessar said:


> But Dreadknights are shit, simply because they compete for a slot with the only reliable ranged anti-tank option the book has for under 190 points.


That doesn't mean that dreadknights are 100% invalidated... Not every single game is a tourny game, and some players can make their list work w/2x rifleman + 1 DK as well.

The point is, Dark Ex is there, and it's a bullshit power because it wouldn't define what is acutally a 'Daemonic Gift'. Thus, my 5 wound Tzherald on chariot gets mugged and suddenly for the round of combat he's down to just 2 wounds and dies because of it... Or else my daemon prince loses his mark of chaos.

Yes it's been partially FAQ'd, but it's still too good for just the cost of a SS halberd.
How would GK players like it if the next codex had a super cheap upgrade that all of a sudden made all your gear stop working?!!



TheKingElessar said:


> Luke - you're being silly, Grey Knights and Daemonhunters have ALWAYS curbstomped Daemons 1v1, and always should. If they couldn't, then they'd be betraying the fluff in an unforgivable way.
> 
> And if ANYTHING, Warp Quake is less OP than Sanctuary in the last book - or Mystics.


GK's never 'always curbstomped' daemons - daemons actually kicked the shit out of GK's pretty damn hard because the old daemonhunter 'dex wasn't ever ment to be a 'pure' knight army - it needed help from the rest of the list and/or the allies abilities.

Yes I think GK's should be hardcore vs daemon because they are the Imperium's last and only real defense against the daemonic, but seriously, this book is a slap in the face to all daemon players!
It's not even a game most of the time, just the daemon player hopelessly fumbling about while the knights rape them sideways with little effort! It's takes a tailored list, a damn good player & a decent helping of luck for daemons to compete vs knights now, hence why the GK book is 'broken'... It's broken the system by invalidating an entire army when it didn't need too!
I can compete with my daemon vs everything else - even stand an outside chance vs the dreaded mechspam... But since GK's showed up, playing daemons in tournaments means you're not going anywhere because for now, you can bet there's at least a handfull of GK armies about and they'll do terrible things to daemons because they've been handed a very one-sided advantage.

And Warp Quake is hienously godly... Considering that a GK army can prevent a daemon army from even coming onto the table at all!!! (seriously, like Ward couldn't have forseen that kind of BS?!?) At least with sanctuary in the old days, I could shoot the crap out of the guy! (something those pinkies are great at!)
So sure it's likely never to happen in a tourny setting, but there are a small number of GK players who keep a Quake-Shunt list handy just for when it's needed...

The GK book isn't OP & broken like fantasy Daemons were, but they're still OP & broken in other ways though...


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

...There is LITERALLY no way that last bullshit is true.

GKs can Quake over the entire board? Bollocks.

I never said pure GKs could before, I said GKs and DH - though in fairness it was more the DH doing anything, but a tailored list from that book would pimpslap Daemons just as much as now - Land Raider + Sanctuary anyone?

Dark Ex is bollocks mate. So what if they can tailor to kick your ass easily - don't play those games.

Finally, stop expecting 4e books to compete properly in 5e. You're just disappointing yourself.


----------

