# GW, Useless unit boxe sets (The case of cultists)



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

GW has been know for milking costumers for money in regards to what they decide to put in box sets for some time now, but with the CSM release we actually see units boxes being released with none or far to few of their useful options. However no other unit better exemplifies this then cultists.

Now it should be said that the dark vengeance set does have almost all the kit you need, but what about those of use who have no love for DA or the weirdly equipped chosen? For us the set is a complete waste of money. So we turn to the 5 man cultist set released by GW (Note this is also a sign that this is all we will ever get). This stupidly put together set not only lacks a flamer or heavy stubber but also suffers in what the cultists come equipped with in regards to basic kit. I mean really 2 models with CCW and pistol and 3 with rifles? That means unless your buying 5 boxes of them you will be forced to either leave some of the unit on the shelf or decide wither your going to shoot your auto guns rather then assaulting. 

I know this isn't a big deal for most armies, but considering that cultists are typically used for objective grabbing I would prefer not to have to spend 10-35 points more on 4 point models just so they can get another 10-35 str3 BS3 shots. Not to mention culstists are actually relatively good at CC for a 4pt model. Hell 35 with the mark of khorn can kill marine units on the charge. So why is GW trying to make it mandatory that we take poorly thought out hodge podge units? (Other then the obvious drive to force people to buy more models. 

This is my two cents on the matter, but what do you think? Also you think by now they would release a space marine box set that comes with more then 1 melta gun?


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

Actually, I've found that 5 Cultists per 10$ box seems to actually be fairly cheap, when you consider another horde unit, Cadian Shock Troops, are sold in increments of 10 for 30$ (though they do come with more components, wargear, etc.). If you've got a spare couple of flamers, you're mostly good. 

Not that I would ever buy it, of course. I either convert Imperial Guardsmen or just buy 20 of them at a time on ebay for as cheap as I can get them.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Who would have thought you might have to do a bit of conversion work in a craft based hobby? 

The cultists not having a flamer is like tactical marines not coming with all their heavy weapon options. If you have a chaos, space marine or imperial guard army around you'll have some flamers to give them. As to the issue of autoguns simply counts them all a having the close combat weapons or autoguns, irrespective of what the model's holding; no one will care as long as you're consistent.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Not really tournaments can and have enforced that models be visibly equipped with what they are armed with. Also although the flamer is common no box set even comes with a heavy stubber, and whats with the sarcasm? The hobby attracts people for different reasons, and I personally know at least 4 gamers off hand that have no ability in even simple conversions no have any care to try.

I really don't understand why people aren't more annoyed by this. I mean if you bought marines and they came with half as assault marines and half as devestators, and you had no use for assault marines wouldn't you feel cheated?


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I assume this is a get boxes out quick thing for Xmas. Would not surprise me in the least to see the two different DV squads have their own box releases in the near future.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

It would be nice, and I guess its not impossible after all we all remember the five man pewter possessed that where rapidly replaced by the 10 man plastic box set.


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

I agree totally, Luke. The whole reason I haven't bought Kasrkin stormtroopers is because the squad comes with a flamer and grenade launcher. If I want to take special weapons that are actually useful, I have to buy not one, but TWO blister packs--because GW includes one plasma and one melta in each pack. So I'm running about $60 for one 10-man squad. Therefore, I'll likely just buy some substitute from the Infinity line or something. Or just not use stormtroopers.


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## Archaon18 (Feb 17, 2012)

The cultist box set might be equivalent of the 5man cheap Chadian box set. With the full 10man to come later?


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Mind you, folks, you can Direct Order packs of 5 plasma or melta (SM type, I'll be honest) off of the GW website for $5 for 5.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

GW cater for a more relaxed type of gamer, most people dont worry about wysiwyg, most people dont play in tournaments, most people can just say "hey matey this is a squad with such and such weapons".

Its hard for me to comment on anything conversion related without it sounding like a sales pitch, but i will say that anyone capable of clipping a model off a sprue and gluing it together is capable of a weapon swap in plastic and the availability of bitz through your own bitz box or online sellers like me or indie companies doing there own designs means its hardly a chore or even very expensive. Anyone not willing to try a bit of kit bashing really hasnt embraced the "hobby" for what it is.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

bitsandkits said:


> Its hard for me to comment on anything conversion related without it sounding like a sales pitch, but i will say that anyone capable of clipping a model off a sprue and gluing it together is capable of a weapon swap in plastic and the availability of bitz through your own bitz box or online sellers like me or indie companies doing there own designs means its hardly a chore or even very expensive. Anyone not willing to try a bit of kit bashing really hasnt embraced the "hobby" for what it is.


:goodpost: Yes.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Mossy Toes said:


> Mind you, folks, you can Direct Order packs of 5 plasma or melta (SM type, I'll be honest) off of the GW website for $5 for 5.


I'm in Canada that set costs 30 dollars here to order from GW.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

If you ask me, it's the Cultist box - and not the gamers - who has failed to embrace "the hobby".

GW is probably the best supplier of multi-part kits around today. Ignoring the price tag, their plastic kits are varied, allow for a great deal of freedom, can be built in numerous ways, and include a whole host of options.

The cultist box of 5 men has 10 pieces in it. Not including the bases. This is laughable from a company that frequently puts 100+ pieces in a 5 man set.

Saying that the onus is on the collector to make sure that the models they buy are representative of the rules in the codex is not only daft, but sets a terrible precedent.

Let's have a look at the Chaos Cultist entry, shall we?

Unit size: 10-35 models (so one box doesn't even give you a functioning unit)
Mandatory features: 1 Champion (not included in the box), 2x CCWs (3/5 models in the box do not have this option and are near-impossible to convert)
Optional Features: Autoguns (2/5 of the box do not have this option and are near-impossible to convert), Heavy Stubber (not included), Flamer (Not included), Shotgun (Not included).

So yeah, breaking it down like that, the cultist box is the worst box in existence right now. However I find it highly, highly, unlikely that GW will simply leave it like that (but not impossible). More feasible is that it is simply a stopgap until the Chaos second wave, when a 10 man box with multi-part men and all the options is released.

However, this is a Xenos codex, and we all know how long the Tervigon took to get a kit, right? Let's hope to avoid that.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

the cultist box is just another one of these pocket money sets 
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440209a&prodId=prod1400021
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440273a&prodId=prod1630084
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440265a&prodId=prod1160160
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440249a&prodId=prod1400022
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440297a&prodId=prod1050155

so before we start accusing GW of failing the fans for not putting out a multipart kit, we should remember that maybe the multipart kit hasnt been put out *yet*

GW have always spread new releases out over several waves, i have utter faith that a full ten man multipart cultist box will come along along with a chosen and likely a hell brute at some point, but until then your choices are as usual, use the models as presented and make them counts as or convert your own.


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

It's worth noting that GW has been very good about including equipment options with their plastic kits, lately. A Leman Russ Demolisher kit can make 3 separate tanks, and all the sponson options (though useless in this edition) are present. The quality and detail of their kits is the reason I was drawn to them in the first place. I just wish they would phase out the pewter and make everything plastic already. Pewter is my single biggest gripe as a collector.

Although I'm pretty tired of scratch-converting meltaguns at this point, come to think of it.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

You ever think that there is could be an issue with the regular box set, or the cultists are proving more popular than they figured and fans were calling for a way to get them besides the $100 box set so instead of leaving people having they took what they had alla the snap together sprues, had some slip covers printed up and released them like that until they can get the full box set out for them? 

Also did you seriously complain about the value on the core box set because some of the models are oddly equipped and to you not use able? That has to be one of the dumbest things I have seen posted in a while. 

If you think GW is a rip off sell your stuff and play another game. Simple as that. Don't like a box set? Don't buy it.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

DV has been selling like very, very hot cakes (I think it's an excellent set, makes Black Reach look like poo); so I'm guessing it's a combination of what *djinn* and *bits* said - it's a nice little pocket-money set, and lets people bolster their Cultist numbers in small increments to suit whatever forces they're putting together. Hell I'd be getting some myself if I hadn't found someone in work who wanted to swap the Chaos models from the DV box for the DA models; so we each bought two, swapped the models and he got all the DAs he wanted while I ended up with a doubled Chaos force. Which was nice. 

As for WYSIWYG - well, it's a tournament thing really; 99.9% of gamers aren't going to be too bothered about it. Weapon swaps are far and away the easiest conversions to do, and hey, even a little converting really can be a lot of fun.


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## Lord_Murdock (Jul 16, 2008)

I'm not going to pretend that I play Chaos, but this is a problem I often have with other sets. What do I do? I turn to eBay.

As of right now, you can get the 20 cultists from DV for just over 30 dollars including shipping. Really, that's not too bad.

If you want flamers, I'm sure that any seller who has cultists on sprues will also have spare IG or marine flamers for a couple dollars. Then it's just a matter of waiting a couple weeks and doing a little converting once they arrive.

That being said, I know that eBay isn't for everyone. But, if I ever need a tank chassis or some extra weapons for a conversion, that's what I do.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

As has been said, I don't think this will be the last Cultist box released. It's snap-together for crying out loud. Every other, non-starter box that has snap-together models has a bigger, more impressive kit. This one happens to be a cheap way to add 5 guys to what comes with DV. And it's good to have cheap, generic options of some models. I bought a box of the 3 SM so I could swap out my upgraded models for smaller point games. It's not intended that I use just those 3-man kits to make all my squads.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Frankly, any complaint that the starter kit isn't appropriate for a wysiwyg tournament is inappropriate. "Starter kit" and stringent tournament just about polar opposites.

Dark vengeance is really the cheapest kit per model GW makes (and probably has made since the venerable 30/30.00 beakie box). With 48 models, for $100, the models are just a hair over $2.00 a piece (without counting the cost of bikes, brutes, or terminators higher). And these are among the best detailed plastics GW has made.

It would be great if GW came out with multipart plastic kits for the helbrute and the cultists, but until then it isn't worth complaining about.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

The argument was never against the starters set as it is a good buy for what it is, but like the last box set I am against putting new units explicitly in said starter box sets. As it is, peaple that want the unit for tounaments or competative play have to go to the box set (Kinda like the old ork coptas). And I will agree that the box set is one of the best to come out, but that isn't the point. What is the point is that 3 of the new models for the CSM line where only made avaible through said box set. Now like most I just use my old stuff to represent rebranded models like the hellbrute as it has nothing but a disadvantage game wise as it has the same rules but a much larger profile (For shooting at). 

Now I am sure this will be adressed....eventually but as it is lots of the new cool models for CMS's are only found in the box set. Keep in mind countrary to what peaple may have thought when I made this thread I already have made costom cultist models of my own. (However that mainly has to do with the fact that the circus folk in the cultist set don't really appeal to me). In fact the only reason I brought it up in the first place is I know 3-4 gamers locally who want to take the new cultists (Not proxies), but won't because they don't want to rapidly cram together mismatched bits to make a stop gap for something that will be released in 1 year.

Now this may be nit picking, but I still feel it is a legitimate criticism of how the CSM release was handeled.

Also if you want to see how I adressed the cultist issue check out my attempt at making cultists http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=118079


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I cant disagree with your friends not wanting to buy something now only for it to be released later down the line, but thats games workshops way of working,it always has been and likely always will be, it would be awesome if they had released the new units from the box as kits at the same time, but they are in the business of making money so by putting 3 or four exclusive units into the box they are more likely to pick up sales for the set, then later on when the sales of the set drop off , boom same units but multi part and with all options, Box set takes its real place as a starter set and we move towards 7th edition 40k and a new chaos marine codex.

You can criticise GW all day long, but its pretty fruitless, they have a business model that works for them, they dont want massive peaks of sales, they want nice solid sustainable and level sales over the year with a nice rise at christmas, like every other high street retailer, the accountants and board members dont care if your buddies buy and convert cultists now and then replace them in a years time when they release new multipart cultists, they would actually prefer it if you did do that, In an ideal world GW would prefer you to buy a complete army when it gets a new army book and then chuck it in the trash and buy the new army they have just released and repeat this every time they release one, but as that is unrealistic they will settle for giving you a snap together model now and then a multipart kit later.

Its what you signed on for when you chose GW.


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