# The 5th Ed Power Fist/Thunder Hammer



## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

So its finally come to head, the 5th ED rumor is slowly becoming a reality... With that comes some pretty serious rules changes one of them is the PF/Thammer losing that extra attack. Additionally if the new SM Dex follows the trends of the DA/BA dex we'll being seeing quite a points hike across the board and it doesn't sound like we can hide our VET Sarge in a pack of Marines anymore. 

So is the new PF worth it any more? Or are we going to see more power weapons in the fray? Let me know if your going to change and why. 

Personally as a BA player I think the time for Corbulo to emerge will be in 5th Ed. Furious charging Str 5 Int 5 power weapons is pretty nice, especially with the effectiveness of tank mobility on the decline. Now we can use our infantry to kill infantry and our heavy weapons for Tanks/MCs. 

Thoughts???

P.S. I hope this hasn't been asked already and I hopes its in the right place...


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## CallumM27 (Mar 20, 2008)

why are sergants not hidden anymore? As a BA player it would be nice to use Corbulo abit more but I'm still keeping the fist with my assault sergants just for that extra kick :good: Power fists are lose the attack? What are GW thinking whats the point in having 2 fist  though I do have a model of an assault serg with two cos it looked like a cool pose


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

I think everyone has seen the obvious power fist weakening, but completely ignored the way it got better. Power fists are I1, and guess what I you go to if you assault into cover, and the I frag grenades give the foe? While hidden power fists are often, but not always, unaffected by this, however non-hidden now have a chance to do damage before they die!


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## hearthlord (Nov 16, 2007)

I didn't see in the PDF that the vet sgt wasn't hidden anymore. If the vet sgt is still hidden than the PF/TH is still usefull. If not then the vet sgt is not usefull an any config.


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## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

From what I understand is wounds are allocated to models before the dice are rolled. So my understanding is if you take enough wounds your special/heavy weapons roll a specific die to determine there save. 

For example; you have a five man assault squad with power fist that takes five wounds, in 5th ed you don't roll five dice and pick and choose your wounds. You role four dice for the standard troopers, and make a separate roll for the vet sarge. So I guess hes still hidden although he can still get killed without finishing the rest of the squad members. 

Its a small change, although if I understand it correctly its a pretty drastic change.


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## Sniper (Mar 9, 2008)

Come on thats just stupid...... why should the controlling player not b able to choose which models get wounds as for the power fists i think they should keep the extra attack......... Great for killing Carnifexes


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## Beriothien (Apr 24, 2008)

Sniper said:


> Come on thats just stupid...... why should the controlling player not b able to choose which models get wounds as for the power fists i think they should keep the extra attack......... Great for killing Carnifexes



Because if the rules wind up changed that way.....?

Doesn't matter if we like it or not.


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## Sniper (Mar 9, 2008)

Good point Beriothien

Sniper


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Power Fists will still have their place in combat, although not as widespread as in 4th ed.
My mates' Khorne army normally has a PF or two in there and it will be a relief not to get charged with as many attacks.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

bl0203 said:


> From what I understand is wounds are allocated to models before the dice are rolled. So my understanding is if you take enough wounds your special/heavy weapons roll a specific die to determine there save.
> 
> For example; you have a five man assault squad with power fist that takes five wounds, in 5th ed you don't roll five dice and pick and choose your wounds. You role four dice for the standard troopers, and make a separate roll for the vet sarge. So I guess hes still hidden although he can still get killed without finishing the rest of the squad members.
> 
> Its a small change, although if I understand it correctly its a pretty drastic change.


That's not such a big change is it? In fourth ed if you got six hits on a squad of five the special guy could be nominated to take one save.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

It's not that huge a change. If you cause enough wounds to force a save on the Vet sergeant then you would have been able to do the same thing in 4th, thanks to torrent of fire. However, he can potentially have to take more than one save and if you have multiple special guys in the unit then all of them may have to make saves and they may have to make more than one.

Losing the attack is big news, especially for armies like black templars and space wolves who give power fists to models with only one attack.

Power weapons with furious charge may well be effective if you can get it. It actually works pretty well already and my skull champion with power fist tends to kill more stuff than the power fist one, if only because everything is often dead before he gets to strike.

Actually that reminds me of one buff that fists do get in 5th. Your opponent won't be able to remove casualties to prevent your fists from attacking and kill zones are gone. At the moment fist attacks are often wasted but that won't happen so much in 5th.

I think that fists will probably still be worth having. It's still no fun to have your assault squad with power weapon in CC with a wraithlord they can't damage. It looks like marine squads will automatically come with a vet sergeant, which is kind of annoying, but you might as well give him some equipment since he's there.


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## chaplin_magnus (Oct 1, 2007)

i personly dont use PF because the usaly get killed before they strike. so i field my vet sergs with PW. now if they change it were they didnt strike last then they would be cool. because i have used the before and he took out a predeator with one punch. but until then i'll stick to my PW.


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

I wonder if thunder hammers will get a change in the new marine codex.

the additional shaken feature always sucked cause I always ended up with double shaken.

+1 on the damage chart would be nice.


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## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

Engelus said:


> I wonder if thunder hammers will get a change in the new marine codex.
> 
> the additional shaken feature always sucked cause I always ended up with double shaken.
> 
> +1 on the damage chart would be nice.


That would be nice, although the fact that it takes away the other players initiative for a few extra points is a pretty cool feature against MCs.


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## da big boss (May 1, 2008)

pf still rule


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## AnarchX (Apr 11, 2008)

I think PF will still be useful for models with multiple attacks but I will probably switch to power weapons on models with a single attack. The only time power weapons really suck is against things that have high toughness.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

I see it as an opportunity to try out pf/th + storm/combi bolters. Since I can only gain an extra attack with 2 fists or hammers, I think that putting a twin bolter or a storm bolter in the other hand can increase the versatility.


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## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

Son of mortarion said:


> I see it as an opportunity to try out pf/th + storm/combi bolters. Since I can only gain an extra attack with 2 fists or hammers, I think that putting a twin bolter or a storm bolter in the other hand can increase the versatility.


Hey not a bad idea, i like the way your thinking. The only downside I see is the points cost of an already expensive model increases more.


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