# GW metal models to go resin.



## HiveMinder (Feb 8, 2010)

Has anyone else heard that gw is planning on going resin instead of pewter? This is something I heard from my local hobby shop owner.

From what I've heard, they will stop producing pewter models and will only do resin models for characters and single models. The implication being that it will mean plastics for everything else. If this is the case, I think i'll deal with a few resin pieces.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

the rumours been floating around on the interweb for a fair while, but I've heard nothing to validate it.

Based on the fact that the most recent GW releases have been heavily metal I'll take it as a pinch of salt. 

If they do expect prices to soar


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## Arkanor (Jan 1, 2010)

HiveMinder said:


> Has anyone else heard that gw is planning on going resin instead of pewter? This is something I heard from my local hobby shop owner.
> 
> From what I've heard, they will stop producing pewter models and will only do resin models for characters and single models. The implication being that it will mean plastics for everything else. If this is the case, I think i'll deal with a few resin pieces.


I've heard it, IIRC correctly it's pretty dead-set on happening but my only real sources are other places like BOLS and Librarium. Supposedly casting the resins is a little cheaper or something, and they might be able to use the same molds.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

The rumours been going around for awhile .


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Damn it I was just at NA GW HQ yesterday, that would have been a great question.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

If you did the answer would probably be.

"We can neither confirm or deny moving to resin"


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

djinn we had that rumor poping around the site for a couple weeks now on other threads.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

pure rumour, someone got wind that GW were removing alot of metal stuff from the order list which sparked a rumour that GW were suspending metal production which then transmogrified into GW are gonna produce resin models.
GW remove metal models from the order list every month,to make space for new plastics in stores and have been doing actively since 2006, if you go into a store and every little bit of space is full of models what do you do when you produce a new model?you do the same as every other store on the planet, you loose the slower selling stuff or the stuff that is geting replaced,simple physics two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time.Grey knights are released you have a space from the old metal knights but were does the space come from for the dreadknight?you loose a few old poor selling metal /hybrid kits and create internet conspiracy panic


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Khain, I know it has been popping up, that was why I had the best chance to ask and I completely blanked on it.

Actually Svart works in the UK casting room, he might be a good person to ask as well.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

djinn24 said:


> Actually Svart works in the UK casting room, he might be a good person to ask as well.


well if he knows something hes keeping mum about it, or its just not happening


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## ANARCHY (Mar 15, 2009)

Personally, i don't see this happening.
Lots of kids will just buy this in stores and have at it, but the stuff is poisonous.
I don't see kids taking all precautions such as mouthcap etc.
Another drawback is that resin is quite soft, swords and such will snap off way too easily.
Plastics would be more logical, but hard because of the nature of the models, so i dunno, but resin ? Not that fast.
Maybe they'll only do certain models and only make them available on the website, but i don't think that's any good or use either.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Eh everything is poison now days! so i hope they do bring on resin! makes my converting life easier


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

djinn24 said:


> Khain, I know it has been popping up, that was why I had the best chance to ask and I completely blanked on it.
> 
> Actually Svart works in the UK casting room, he might be a good person to ask as well.


He's not allowed to tell us, we spoke about it on Episode 10 of Interesting tactics. If he were to reveal something, he could lose his job.


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## Cadarn (Mar 8, 2009)

I was in store a couple of days ago and asked the single staff member there. They've heard the same rumours, but no more than that. Their thinking is that they can see it happening as the cost of White metal is becoming increasingly expensive. He believes they will switch to a resin, but not the same as the forge world stuff, due to the poisonous properties. That stuff is fine for your Forgeworld customer who tends to be more advanced and knows what they are doing, but the don't want to stock it in store.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

I love the way we are worried about it being 'poisonous'. When I started the hobby ALL models were made of lead!


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

the rumour is, that they may be switching to the same type of plastic resin that PP use in there models which is safe to use and wont kill you 20-30 years down the line........lol


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Personally I think metal to resin won't happen for several reasons. 

1) Metal is cheaper then resin. Don't believe me? Look at a metal GW character model, then a comparable Forge World Resin model.. which costs more? Thats right, the resin FW. If all metal went rsin, GW would have far too many people complaining about costs.

2) Metal tooling, moulds etc, are cheaper then resin moulds, and last longer. Most GW metal moulds are still the origionals, FW resins casts have probably been through 2 or 3 for most produts.

3) Recyling waste and casting. If you cock up a casting with Metal, you can just melt it down and start again. You can't melt down and reuse resin, so if you cock up with it, its a wasted casting. 

4) Resin is slightly toxic. With the filing and shaving etc you'd have to do with it, GW would have to put warning labels on all its products... and what parent is going to allow their kids to buy them? It might be the PP 'plastic resin'. But if thats the case, why not just use plastic since they'd not have to change any production methods they already have.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Let's get one thing straight. Metal is NOT cheaper than resin. The reason why forgeworld characters are the price they are is volume. Think about it this way.

To make a model you have:

Designers cost
Sculpters cost
Mold cost
Production cost
Miselaneous costs
Resin/metal cost.

If you only sell 100 of those models all those 'pre production' costs are only split 100 ways, meaning that the cost of what you are paying for has almostno connection to the cost of the materials.
If on the other hand you are going to sell 1,000 models, well you can price them far lower because all those preproduction costs are split sonthin it's actually the cost of the materials that becomes important.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

For what it's worth, and taking this from the rumblings on Warseer, the resin that GW may-or-may-not start to use is not the Forgeworld-type resin. Supposedly, this 'new' material is softer than the FW stuff and not harmful to work. The way the company can make this swap is that, again allegedly, still use the metal model moulds, this new material being chosen so that it doesn't invalidate a load of moulds.
All of that said, this is still just rumour and conjecture with no official word either way. It might be something as simple as a warehouse re-structuring that is going to cause a halt in production/supply, or even trying to rationalise web-sales in some way. Who knows?

GFP


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## eupluvian (May 13, 2010)

From what I know of resin casting one of the biggest costs is in labour as each cast needs to be done more or less by hand. Metal and plastic just need to have the machine turned on and you can go home. Resin needs someone to look after each casting. Not sure about the PP style plastic resin. Seeing as GW aren't short a quid to invest in production it would make more sense to go to plastic for everything or resin plastic. Either way they do seem pretty determined to dump metal and I'd say it's a good decision. If anyone looks at Heresy Miniatures regularly will see what problems the increase in metal cost has caused Andy. He desperately wants to get away from metal but can't afford plastic.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

eupluvian said:


> From what I know of resin casting one of the biggest costs is in labour as each cast needs to be done more or less by hand.


I dont know enough about it, so this is more of a question.

Arent most resin moldings done by hand, simply because resin is used for low number production.

What I mean is that plastic casting could be done by hand, but its not because the reason companies make plastic models is that they want them mass produced and so they have the expensive molds made that allow them to stamp press thousands of sprues very quickly.

What i am not sure of is that I am assuming that resin casting CAN be done automated, but isnt because in the past you would either use peuter/lead or plastics, but now the metal is getting so expensive they are moving on to resin which is cheaper.

Could you fill me in on why resin specifically needs human intervention to make the moldings work?


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## eupluvian (May 13, 2010)

The discussion I had was specifically about Forge Wold. I was more than a bit surprised to find out how much manual labour goes into into their work. One of the big things with resin is air bubbles and how they need to be eliminated. But also the flow of the resin seems to be a bit of an art and less of a science

I'm sure if someone wanted to throw the cash and time at this process anything is possible and the company most likely to do it is FW.

As an aside, try and find a bit of info on the problems Spartan games are having/ had. The minis for DW, FSA and US are superb from what I've heard. They are also resin and they have had a lot of problems keeping up with demand because resin production is so slow compared to plastic and metal. Same reasons as already stated. Too high in labour. Resin burns through molds. (Not literally of course.)

This seems to be a topic that keeps coming up so I think we may all become pretty familiar with what the ups and downs of it all are.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i personally cant see the point, unless GW are confident that its customer base will accept the change and more to the point there is a significant financial gain to be made by the change i cant see them investing in a new and untested method and material.

Many of you wont realize that there was a back lash when white metal was introduced, lead had some serious advantages because it was very soft,which for conversions was important back in the day, there was also a back lash when plastics started to replace metal sets, the first plastic terminators were bloody awful as were most plastic (warhammer goblins,dwarves etc) minatures, it was only when they started have the quality of metal models that plastics really took off,and that wasnt long ago.

It is far more likely for GW to transfer almost everything to plastic and have a few choice metal models than it is to introduce a replacement medium for metal when metal price can go down as well as up as its a commodity. GW already have the facilities to produce metal and plastics,they have supply agreements for both materials,they have everything in place such as trained staff,machines, printed packaging with instructions and safety notices.These are not things you suddenly decide to change because the price of metal has risen,im not saying they wont but unless there is a significant change in toy legislation restricting the use of white metal or they can make a significant profit without risking alienating there customers i can not see anything changing other than metal model becoming plastic and those that dont will be expensive.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

:goodpost: This...

Pretty much anotehr reason i doubt we'll see the end of metal for resin.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I'm with B&K on this one, such a sudden shift in production is highly unlikely.
For starters the costs would be staggering, they would need to retrain all of their staff, refit the factory space to accommodate the new processes, invest heavily in the development of this new non toxic super resin and employ an army to recast everything they currently produce in metal.
As much as we bitch and moan about GW not listening to its fan base they would be stupid to suddenly drop an unknown new material on us, as Bits already said, there was enough of a backlash when they switched from lead to white metal. 

All of this is just proof of how stupid the rumour mill often gets, this story has gone from GW *TEMPORARILY SUSPENDING *(capitalised because it's an important point) production of metals, to the invention of a new super duper, all singing all dancing resin that can be used in metal molds, is non toxic and can be melted down and reused if it goes tits up. 
If GW were going to switch it would be done to save money, a switch to resin now would cost them a hideous amount of money that would take them decades to recoup so unless the price of tin is just about to hit 72 gazillion pounds per gram then it's just not a financially viable option.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

normtheunsavoury said:


> All of this is just proof of how stupid the rumour mill often gets, this story has gone from GW *TEMPORARILY SUSPENDING *(capitalised because it's an important point) production of metals, *to the invention of a new super duper, all singing all dancing resin that can be used in metal molds, is non toxic and can be melted down and reused if it goes tits up*.


take away the part about molds and you have that thing we like to call plastic when you think about it lol


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## HiveMinder (Feb 8, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> i personally cant see the point, unless GW are confident that its customer base will accept the change and more to the point there is a significant financial gain to be made by the change i cant see them investing in a new and untested method and material.
> 
> It is far more likely for GW to transfer almost everything to plastic and have a few choice metal models than it is to introduce a replacement medium for metal when metal price can go down as well as up as its a commodity. GW already have the facilities to produce metal and plastics,they have supply agreements for both materials,they have everything in place such as trained staff,machines, printed packaging with instructions and safety notices.These are not things you suddenly decide to change because the price of metal has risen,im not saying they wont but unless there is a significant change in toy legislation restricting the use of white metal or they can make a significant profit without risking alienating there customers i can not see anything changing other than metal model becoming plastic and those that dont will be expensive.


You act as if someone walked into GW one day, said, "Hey lets scrap our metal models and go make them all resin, starting next week." It just doesn't happen that way.

While I cannot confirm that GW is switching modelling mediums, IF it is going to happen, you can be assured that the development team at GW has been discussing and researching for months, if not years. I would not be surprised if these discussions started a few years ago when metal prices first started to noticably increase. 

This would not be a 'sudden' change with 'untested' materials. As with any business, GW's goal is to stay in business in the future, so when metal prices started to go up, they most likely realized the need for a more reliably costed modeling medium. 

The plastic molds are MUCH more expensive than metal molds to make, which is why you don't see plastics of things that won't sell in large quantities. The offset cost of the molds is just too high.

I can guarantee they started researching many modeling mediums, and tested the strengths and weaknesses of each before deciding on one to move forward with.

Yes, change is expensive. And if GW decided to change over to a new modeling medium, that would prove to be costly initially. But if it will help keep them competetively in business 5, 10, 15 years down the line, I guarantee you they will dish out the money.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

HiveMinder said:


> You act as if someone walked into GW one day, said, "Hey lets scrap our metal models and go make them all resin, starting next week." It just doesn't happen that way.


where did i say or even imply thats what went on? 

You have added weight to the point that this isnt something that going to happen at the drop of the hat and i quite clearly pointed out that unless its a change in toy legislation or that it will significantly change GW's margins what is the point?Molds for plastic do cost more to produce,but its not as high as people think(i have had quotes),most of GW's costs are not related to design and production and its far more economical to remove metal models from stores and make them direct only than it is to completely change to a totally new medium which if the rumours are to be believed is called miracleplasticmetalresin because it has the exact properties of all three, and low and behold it can still be used in the current molds,there is no waste,its not the same stuff as forgeworld use,its non toxic(this is the new property its suddenly acquired), but it begs the question if this cheap miracle non toxic resin exists why isnt FW already using it ? they are GW's test bed anyway

BUT Yes GW may have been training and changing there set up and everything for months, they may also have been working on the cure for smelly gamer arm pit for the last two years but that does not mean we will see GW body spray anymore than we will see GW resin model. 

Im not saying that GW cant change to resin, im not saying they wont change to resin, im saying that its highly unlikely and from the outside looking in i cant see the benefit even in the long term with out making a significant investment in infrastructure and its gonna mean more than just the casting people who will need retraining, all the store people will need training and then its gonna mean a serious amount of time and investment to bring the customer base up to speed with how to work with a new material.
Considering the volatile financial environment and the fact GW are only just back in the black i cant see them making this kinda change unless it has been forced on them by legislation.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> they may also have been working on the cure for smelly gamer arm pit for the last two years but that does not mean we will see GW body spray anymore than we will see GW resin model.


I know its off topic - but that could be a HUGE marketing oppertunity for them. :biggrin:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Maidel said:


> I know its off topic - but that could be a HUGE marketing opportunity for them. :biggrin:



Khorne by Dior


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> Khorne by Dior


Wish to have your body and soul devoured by sucubi? Slaanessh Deoderant. Experience the Slaanesh Effect.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> Khorne by Dior


 
Putrescence by Nurgle.


But thats enough of a divergance. 


As to the topic at hand - IF (and its a big IF) GW have got their hands on a resin that can be used in Metal molds with the same casting proceedure as metal and requiring no extra man power, then I think they would do it purely because it would be like their usual price hike, without putting the price up.

However, thats all a lot of IFs


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

So why is it then, all blister packs are becoming unavailable to independent stocklists, the GW reps are being told that Metal models are going to be scrapped in the near future, and Privateer Press are already using a non toxic resin? 

GW are just following a trend.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

As Bits pointed out previously.. metal kits become unavailible all the time, be it for replacing with plastics, or because new kits are comming out etc.

Reps don't know anything. 

And PP sells far less then GW, hence have far smaller casting numbers.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Marneus Calgar said:


> So why is it then, all blister packs are becoming unavailable to independent stocklists, the GW reps are being told that Metal models are going to be scrapped in the near future, and Privateer Press are already using a non toxic resin?
> 
> GW are just following a trend.


They're not, my local has no problem ordering in metals, blisters for standard minis and special characters.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> They're not, my local has no problem ordering in metals, blisters for standard minis and special characters.


 
Is he ordering as a stockist, or ordering from mail order?


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

As a stockist, he's had no problems ordering anything, metal or otherwise.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> As a stockist, he's had no problems ordering anything, metal or otherwise.


Well assuming thats true (not accusing you of lying or anything, simply that he might be giving you out of date info, or hasnt tried to order one of the things thats been removed) then it puts a great big nail in that coffin.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I should be able to find out in the nex few days, he's got a rep coming in for an event he's doing. I will badger the hell out of him until I get an answer.


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## elpawlo (Apr 22, 2011)

keep us posted Norm, not sure if resin can replace whole range of metals but if it's detailed enough and the quality is there I'm all for it.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Cadarn said:


> He believes they will switch to a resin, but not the same as the forge world stuff, due to the poisonous properties. That stuff is fine for your Forgeworld customer who tends to be more advanced and knows what they are doing, but the don't want to stock it in store.


Yes that's right the stuff is... poisonous? That explains the hideous stench when I was dremmelling the mouldlines away the other week... And my one charred and blackened lung...

Still, such beautiful models...

On another note, the FW resin has changed recently to something more plasticy. The DKK blokes I got about two years ago, the openday models and various orky bits seem to be a slightly more brittle version, where as the SW Ven Dread I picked up last month looks pretty plasticy and is a different colour/has a different feel to it. That said, r kid assures me it is just as brittle after a banner incident last weekend...


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i cant say if FW resin has changed, but the techniques for casting have definitely altered, and the number of casting issues i have seen across the range has definitely dropped, i would have to report a miscast every order, but recently i have had none,casting is top notch,very little flash,very little warping but huge huge vents to remove.
But something has changed... for the better too.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

GrizBe said:


> 2) Metal tooling, moulds etc, are cheaper then resin moulds, and last longer. Most GW metal moulds are still the origionals, FW resins casts have probably been through 2 or 3 for most produts


Where on earth have you gotten that idea from? Yes they may be cheaper, but for good reason. Moulds for metals have to be remade on a frequent basis as they often tear when getting the figures out. They have a large bank of tin 'masters' of models, which are used again and again to remake the pink wheel-moulds. 

The plastic moulds however, made of cast-iron and costing 10's of thousands of pounds each, are mostly still the originals. Unless those suckers are dropped, they tend to last forever.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

SilverTabby said:


> Where on earth have you gotten that idea from? Yes they may be cheaper, but for good reason. Moulds for metals have to be remade on a frequent basis as they often tear when getting the figures out. They have a large bank of tin 'masters' of models, which are used again and again to remake the pink wheel-moulds.
> 
> The plastic moulds however, made of cast-iron and costing 10's of thousands of pounds each, are mostly still the originals. Unless those suckers are dropped, they tend to last forever.


actually they are steel and considerably cheaper than people think, back in the day when it was done by "Geoff" the man with a pantograph milling machine they cost alot of money to produce, but these days with CAD linked milling machines its not as pricey, but yeah they do last ages, they only re cut the rhino tool in 2006 can you imagine how many rhinos have come of the production line up to that point?


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Yeah as Bits kindly pointed out, your rather behind the times there tabby.

As said, metal moulds last years... Resin moulds however... they can be replaced yearly.


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

bitsandkits said:


> i cant say if FW resin has changed, but the techniques for casting have definitely altered, and the number of casting issues i have seen across the range has definitely dropped, i would have to report a miscast every order, but recently i have had none,casting is top notch,very little flash,very little warping but huge huge vents to remove.
> But something has changed... for the better too.


Casting issues dropped? Really? I brought 20 heresy era minis, a SW dread and some other bits and bobs only a month or two ago and I was quite disappointed with the amount of work I had to do on them before I could even start sticking them together. Warping, holes where there had been bubbles, not to mention the seemingly excessive amount of flashing. I would have taken them back if I wasn't so impatient and wanting to stick them together right that minute. 

Even the Boarding Marine I picked up recently had a bit of warping. 

I dunno, I prefer resin to metal for the ease of conversion but I'm not happy with the faults in casting.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

:goodpost: Yet another reason rmetal to resin is a bad idea...


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## Nipolian (Nov 4, 2009)

*No more metal*

Merged Post
Games Workshop is no longer making metal guys whether they will be swiching to resin i dont know. As of now they are only while supplies last, yes that includes the ones that haven't come out yet!:shok:

this is what i have been told from mutiple sources. so if you want to anything metal get it now!


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

Merged Post.
Not to burst your bubble but this has been floating around for awhile now and there are multiple threads already devoted to the topic.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Merged Post.
my god, there are at least 3 other threads covering this. And just to let you know, this is total speculation from people across the magical realm of the internet, there is no proof or confirmation or even hints to suggest that metal is being cancelled, they are taking a break from it for a few months. That is it


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

In fact, if anything its been pretty much busted. 

The rumour started with one that stated heir local independant stockst couldn't buy any metal models anymore... this quickly snowballed. Since then and even in the last day or two, we've had various reports from multiple independant stockists saying they can buy everything just fine and don't known where this rumour started.

Also, as has been pointed out by various people, changing to resin would cost GW too much money, and has no advantages over metal. If they really wanted to scrap metal for another substance, they'd just start using plastic for everything.


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## Nipolian (Nov 4, 2009)

mcmuffin said:


> Merged Post.
> my god, there are at least 3 other threads covering this. And just to let you know, this is total speculation from people across the magical realm of the internet, there is no proof or confirmation or even hints to suggest that metal is being cancelled, they are taking a break from it for a few months. That is it


From what i have been told by people that work at multipal GW stores it that this is happining now. Unless they are lying (which is crazy) than they are all well suplies last!


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Another metal/resin argument thread? Figured it was all but confirmed.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Wrong way round... its been all but confirmed officially that its a load of bull.


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## turel2 (Mar 2, 2009)

GW models to be made of cannabis resin


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

GrizBe said:


> Wrong way round... its been all but confirmed officially that its a load of bull.


Where are you getting that from?


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

From the fact that no indie's seem to have the slightest problem ordering in metals, unless you know something different?


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> From the fact that no indie's seem to have the slightest problem ordering in metals, unless you know something different?


This... and the appliance of logic that it would cost GW too much to switch. The fact there is no 'Super Resin' made by anyone that has the properties of both metal and plastic and is non-toxic. Google people . And the fact when the Area Manager nipped into my store yesturday and I asked him, he flat out swore it was a load of bull.


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Im sorry but is it not a given that metal is being washed out? As new models come out all I have been seeing for the most part have been plastic. I also think that if they were planing on going to risen they would have started already don't you think? why keep that a rumour for so long if in fact it is a credible rumour just seems weird to me.


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## ashikenshin (Mar 25, 2010)

didn't the new GK came with a bit of metal characters?


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

ashikenshin said:


> didn't the new GK came with a bit of metal characters?


This... If GW were really moving to resin, why are all the new armies due out have metal characters confirmed, and why would GK's have metal characters released for them? 

The fact is metal is cheaper and more conveiniant then resin to use despite what anyone says. Resin moulds wear out rapidly.. there is no 'super resin' that acts like metal in its moulds. 

Metal models don't need to be cast in large numbers like plastics. This is why in alot of cases metal models are being phased out...for the simple reason those metals are models that need to be bought in greater numbers, so making them in plastic is more viable for the customer base. 

IF they were really phasing out metal for good, they'd just make everything in plastic rather then resin as plastic is cheaper then both metal and resin and wouldn't cost much to convert to compared to resin. 

Metal to Resin is just a rumour thats gotten out of hand because of some idiot jumping to conclusions. Its not going to happen and isn't happening.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

GrizBe said:


> This... If GW were really moving to resin, why are all the new armies due out have metal characters confirmed, and why would GK's have metal characters released for them?
> 
> The fact is metal is cheaper and more conveiniant then resin to use despite what anyone says. Resin moulds wear out rapidly.. there is no 'super resin' that acts like metal in its moulds.
> 
> ...


But GW are giving out a lot of different signs, it's area reps are telling places they are (well, the one that covers Wiltshire is..), and then lots of people are assuming it's not? My local independent told me they're having a hard time getting metals in, apparently it's not the case for other independents, then this begs the question, why is it harder for some places and not the others? 

As for the plastic moulds, they cost a FORTUNE, resin moulds don't, this is why resin is more competitive, it costs less for a mould that yes, will eventually be damaged. But, I know I'm probably going off on one, but GW have been advertising for 2 Apprenticeship positions at Games Workshop HQ for Tooling the moulds. Why are they doing that? Well, yes, they could have had a staff member leave and they're getting cheap labour. Or, maybe, they're trying to get more workers working on newer mould systems. 

I guess we won't know until GW shed some light on the subject.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

GrizBe said:


> IF they were really phasing out metal for good, they'd just make everything in plastic rather then resin as plastic is cheaper then both metal and resin and wouldn't cost much to convert to compared to resin.
> 
> Metal to Resin is just a rumour thats gotten out of hand because of some idiot jumping to conclusions. Its not going to happen and isn't happening.


Actually, Marneus Calgar has the right of it. If you were to change every mould that currently produces a metal figure to plastic, it would costs millions to do. The moulds are very expensive, and GW does an awful lot of metal figures. Yes, plastic is cheaper, but the moulds _really_ aren't. 

*Puts on devils advocate hat*

Why is it so inconceivable that GW would shift to resin as a stop-gap, as resin is cheaper than metal right now, and likely to remain so given the way prices have been rising? Any switch to all plastic isn't going to happen overnight, but switching to resin to keep the prices down whilst slowly doing the switch is a perfectly reasonable way of doing things...

And anyway, all the boxes already carry a "not recommended for children under the age of 14" disclaimer on them (or at least did the last time I looked for it). Seems a reasonable age to expect kids not to eat the figures at, wouldn't you think?

Also, regardless of what indie suppliers and store managers say, GW HQ wouldn't take metals off the ordering list until they were ready to supply everything in any new way. The factory holds months-worth of orders in stock, and unless they had at least 4-6 months worth of figures in a new material ready, they wouldn't even mention it to anyone. They'd just do the switch when they were ready, and suddenly all orders would arrive in the new material. Absolutley no reason to run down supplies first, that would actually eat into their profits unnecessarily.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

> But GW are giving out a lot of different signs, it's area reps are telling places they are (well, the one that covers Wiltshire is..), and then lots of people are assuming it's not? My local independent told me they're having a hard time getting metals in, apparently it's not the case for other independents, then this begs the question, why is it harder for some places and not the others?


This is what confuses me slightly... My area manager swears they're not doing it, and the one independant we've got in my town can get all metals fine too... 




> As for the plastic moulds, they cost a FORTUNE, resin moulds don't, this is why resin is more competitive, it costs less for a mould that yes, will eventually be damaged. But, I know I'm probably going off on one, but GW have been advertising for 2 Apprenticeship positions at Games Workshop HQ for Tooling the moulds. Why are they doing that? Well, yes, they could have had a staff member leave and they're getting cheap labour. Or, maybe, they're trying to get more workers working on newer mould systems.



Now... that may be true, but you forget... Plastic moulds will last thousands, if not millions of stampings before they need to be replaced. Resin moulds wear out and need to be replaced after maybe just a few hundred times. So while short term they may be cheaper, long term they'll cost much much more with all the replacements needed. As for the apprentice thing, its as you said... more likely cheap labour and replacing staff.




> Why is it so inconceivable that GW would shift to resin as a stop-gap, as resin is cheaper than metal right now, and likely to remain so given the way prices have been rising? Any switch to all plastic isn't going to happen overnight, but switching to resin to keep the prices down whilst slowly doing the switch is a perfectly reasonable way of doing things...



Simply because there is no resin that can be used sucessfully in a metal casting mould. Also, metal prices fluctuate.. it may be expensive now, but it could plumet next year and be cheaper then resin. Plus, as stated before.. metal you can melt down and recast, resin you can't... and resin suffers from the problems of air bubbles and casting warpage, so can and will suffer more wastage.




> And anyway, all the boxes already carry a "not recommended for children under the age of 14" disclaimer on them (or at least did the last time I looked for it). Seems a reasonable age to expect kids not to eat the figures at, wouldn't you think?


Looking at my boxes and blisters thats actually 'Not recomended for children under 36 months due to small parts. GW products recomended for children 12 and over'. Having to put on a warning reading 'dust from this product is toxic and carcenogenic'... what parent is going to buy that for their kids, or let them buy it? Look at how much the carcenogenic dye in those go-go hamsters cost its parent company when they had to recall them all recently. Don't think GW would want to risk it or the bad publicity....



> Also, regardless of what indie suppliers and store managers say, GW HQ wouldn't take metals off the ordering list until they were ready to supply everything in any new way. The factory holds months-worth of orders in stock, and unless they had at least 4-6 months worth of figures in a new material ready, they wouldn't even mention it to anyone. They'd just do the switch when they were ready, and suddenly all orders would arrive in the new material. Absolutley no reason to run down supplies first, that would actually eat into their profits unnecessarily.


And there you've kind of nailed it. They'd not remove metal if they were switching.. they'd just wait for stocks to run down and announce they were changing while doing so. Hence, why this is just a rumor thats gotten compeltely out of control.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

GrizBe said:


> Looking at my boxes and blisters thats actually 'Not recomended for children under 36 months due to small parts. GW products recomended for children 12 and over'. Having to put on a warning reading 'dust from this product is toxic and carcenogenic'... what parent is going to buy that for their kids, or let them buy it? Look at how much the carcenogenic dye in those go-go hamsters cost its parent company when they had to recall them all recently. Don't think GW would want to risk it or the bad publicity....


Privateer Press sell all their stuff in Resin, they seem to be selling fine :victory:


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Marneus Calgar said:


> Privateer Press sell all their stuff in Resin, they seem to be selling fine :victory:


Except they don't get an audience of younger players and there total sales aren't even 10% of GW's...


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Another turn in the rumour mill, just been over on 40kOnline, and there is another rumour saying this:



brennen said:


> I spoke to an unnamed source at the Memphis opening. Metals are not out, simply being re-packaged into boxes with the painted model on the box. The current blisters are too easy to shoplift as they fit right into your pocket. A bigger package makes it harder to steal, plus the picture of the painted model makes it easier to figure out what the model is.
> 
> I would say add salt, but unless it's on a Margarita or over watermelon, salt is a waste......


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Now that makes sense... My local store has all its blisters at the back near the till for just this reason.

Plus, good move to show the finished model on the packing. Added visual appeal for whats possible and how the model should look for those who can't work out multipart metal models.

That said though... increased packing = increased cost? They'll certain take up more shelf space...


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

SilverTabby said:


> The moulds are very expensive, and GW does an awful lot of metal figures. Yes, plastic is cheaper, but the moulds _really_ aren't.


Roughly £75,000 per mould. That's _one_ sprue.


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## Killystar Gul Dakka (Mar 20, 2011)

I noticed something while shopping today...but i don't like sounding like a brokin rekord so...http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88686. This could give validity to the rumor


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Marneus Calgar said:


> Another turn in the rumour mill, just been over on 40kOnline, and there is another rumour saying this:


This is the exact reason my FLGS gave me. I asked them about the metal shift when I went in to snag the last commissar on the shelf, and he said all the fuss was over a packaging change. Pretty dumb if you ask me, not just coming out and saying it.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Killystar Gul Dakka said:


> I noticed something while shopping today...but i don't like sounding like a brokin rekord so...http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88686. This could give validity to the rumor



Well i can get them just fine on the UK site... soo, I doubt it.


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## ANARCHY (Mar 15, 2009)

I know someone inside WHHQ and he's actually had a chat about it with the boss who stated they will NEVER GO TO RESIN !
Simply because it's poisonous, and you don't want 12 year old kids handling the stuff, not actually cheaper than tin, a disaster to work with and stuff breaks off too easy.
So just completely forget about this, period.
If the big boss says no it's just no.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Then stop bumping this thread, this rumor has been well and truly beaten down already.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Then stop bumping this thread, this rumor has been well and truly beaten down already.


This isn't so much a bump, but it's more of a gripe. 

When people say that independents are still able to get their metal models in. Well, every online retailer I have tried, do not have any friggin' box sets. Not blisters, box sets. I wanted to get the Veterans set, and the MC + Honour Guard set. Not one online retailer is stocking them at the moment, and it's really pissed me off. I'm not having to pay £52 for 10 models. ARGH


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Marneus Calgar said:


> This isn't so much a bump, but it's more of a gripe.
> 
> When people say that independents are still able to get their metal models in. Well, every online retailer I have tried, do not have any friggin' box sets. Not blisters, box sets. I wanted to get the Veterans set, and the MC + Honour Guard set. Not one online retailer is stocking them at the moment, and it's really pissed me off. I'm not having to pay £52 for 10 models. ARGH



Well on this, a new rumour appeared that blisters are getting repacked into boxes with coloured box art. Reason being boxes are harder to steal. Perhaps with metal boxed sets, something similar is happening with a repack?


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

This thread has served it's purpose, until new rumours arise I'm closing it.


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