# Sisters of Battle are on the same level as Wolves?



## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

for the new space wolves book for black library "Blood of Asaheim"

the synopsis says

_After half a century apart, in service to the Deathwatch and the Chapter, Space Wolves Ingvar and Gunnlaugr are reunited.

Sent to defend an important shrine world against the plague-ridden Death Guard, *the Grey Hunters clash with the pious Sisters of Battle, who see the Space Wolves as little better than the enemy they fight.*
_

huh? is that saying the sisters of battle are on the same combat level as space wolves........ meaning they are on the same level as a space marine


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

I think it is more about their piety rather than combat prowess.

The Sisters would see the Space Wolves attitude to the Emp as border line heritical


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Magpie_Oz said:


> I think it is more about their piety rather than combat prowess.
> 
> The Sisters would see the Space Wolves attitude to the Emp as border line heritical


ok so the sisters arn't really as proficient in combat as the wolves are?

but view them as pretty much heretics


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Well the Wolves march to the beat of their own drum, Sisters are fanatically devout to the Emp.


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## Lemanruss27 (Feb 16, 2012)

Nah,it s neither of those,above mentioned reasons,the Sista s:grin:,upon laying sight on the SW s for the first time,where totally smitten by the sheer manliness the guys where radiating,sooo...they made some,khm,khm,certain advances towards them,but the wolfes beeing what they are,Sw s,and devout followers of the fine arts of getting pissdrunk:grin:just vaved them on,so the sista s got pissed and the rest is well known:biggrin:

I know,im full of it,no hard feelings


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Emperorguard500 said:


> Sent to defend an important shrine world against the plague-ridden Death Guard, [B]the Grey Hunters clash with the pious Sisters of Battle, who see the Space Wolves as little better than the enemy they fight.[/B]
> [/I][/quote]
> 
> As others have said, it's more about where the Space Wolves stand relative to the Imperial Creed (that is, not believing the Emperor is a god).
> ...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Lemanruss27 said:


> Nah,it s neither of those,above mentioned reasons,the Sista s:grin:,upon laying sight on the SW s for the first time,where totally smitten by the sheer manliness the guys where radiating,sooo...they made some,khm,khm,certain advances towards them,but the wolfes beeing what they are,Sw s,and devout followers of the fine arts of getting pissdrunk:grin:just vaved them on,so the sista s got pissed and the rest is well known:biggrin:
> 
> I know,im full of it,no hard feelings


Twilight; the story of a girls choice between Necrophilia and Bestiality.

By the way; "sister"; "it's", "wolves" "girliness".


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

So let me get this right, the Son's of Russ are so manly that the Imperium's Hotest Nuns with Guns hit 'em up for PAR TAY and they give them the knock back ? ...............

Not hard to see how THEY roll now is it?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen.


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## Cowbellicus (Apr 10, 2012)

Not to shatter your worldview or anything but : on the tabletop there are SoB units that have more wounds than vanilla SM of any kind :biggrin:


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Meh, TT can stay away from the fluff.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Cowbellicus said:


> Not to shatter your worldview or anything but : on the tabletop there are SoB units that have more wounds than vanilla SM of any kind :biggrin:


TT has never and will never be relevant here in these parts. :security:

Wolves are and always have been fierce in their ways and since the Emperor's ascension this has only become more and more prevalent. 

The Sisters are devout to a fault. Their faith has been manipulated in the past and their dedication to dying for the Emperor and fascination with martyrdom has led to numerous defeats that could easily have been avoided. 


Bt on a military scale, the Space Wolves have always been superior in a general sense.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Cowbellicus said:


> Not to shatter your worldview or anything but : on the tabletop there are SoB units that have more wounds than vanilla SM of any kind :biggrin:


That fits, chicks can deal with more pain than guys, supposedly.

Mind you a Wolf with an Axe will probably ID them anyway so the extra wounds count fer nowt.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Cowbellicus said:


> Not to shatter your worldview or anything but : on the tabletop there are SoB units that have more wounds than vanilla SM of any kind :biggrin:


You'd have more wounds to if your enemies had to deal with shooting through the kitchens walls before attacking them.



Magpie_Oz said:


> So let me get this right, the Son's of Russ are so manly that the Imperium's Hotest Nuns with Guns hit 'em up for PAR TAY and they give them the knock back ? ...............
> 
> Not hard to see how THEY roll now is it?


Actually the SOB are fully allowed to mount anyone they choose. So they aren't nuns.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

....... what? How exactly did you get "sisters of battle are on the same level as marines" out of "the Grey Hunters clash with the pious Sisters of Battle?" Really, I have no idea how you came up with that.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

My two prediction of the story:
1: Sisters of battle are somehow evil (or stupid) and die while the space wolves hog all the glory (hopefully this doesn't happen.
2: After a bit of a debate and a small clash (maybe even a fight or two among them), the two begin to work together and slowly put their difference aside to defeat the enemy (hopeful it's this one).


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Magpie_Oz said:


> That fits, chicks can deal with more pain than guys, supposedly.


I think you may be right.
How many women after enduring childbirth decide they would like another?

How many men after a good hard kick in the conkers decide they would like another?


Jus' saying....


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

Tawa said:


> I think you may be right.
> How many women after enduring childbirth decide they would like another?
> 
> How many men after a good hard kick in the conkers decide they would like another?
> ...


 Amazing how women can cope with child birth but not headaches!!! Anyway back on topic, I think the Sisters regard for the Wolves is their level of contempt for them is on a par with that for their contempt for enemies of man!


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

I think the OP misunderstood it completely. The Space Wolves have always been seen as uncouth barbarians, and they often played on that stereotype while hiding their true cunning to take allies and enemies alike by suprise. Leman Russ himself advocated that strategy.

Imagine a pious sister of battle seeing a snarling totem bedecked space wolf for the first time, laughing as he cleaves foes apart. She will be turning her nose to the sky so high that her neck is in danger of snapping from her disdain. Seeing the wolves as naught but a step from heresy and damnation and that more often than not suits the space wolves just fine.


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## cheeto (Apr 1, 2011)

Magpie_Oz said:


> So let me get this right, the Son's of Russ are so manly that the Imperium's Hotest Nuns with Guns hit 'em up for PAR TAY and they give them the knock back ? ...............
> 
> Not hard to see how THEY roll now is it?


It's the unwritten truth about women of today which apparently still holds true in the 40k universe haha


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Reaper45 said:


> Actually the SOB are fully allowed to mount anyone they choose. So they aren't nuns.


Nunhood isn't about shagging or lack there of tho'.

Catholic wise a Nun is someone who has taken a Solemn Oath, or an Oath to God where as a Sister has simply taken a Public Oath.

I'm guessing the Sister's of Battle take oaths to the Emp? That would make them Nuns?


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Emperorguard500 said:


> for the new space wolves book for black library "Blood of Asaheim"
> 
> the synopsis says
> 
> ...


According to Ben Counter the Sisters are BETTER than Space Wolves. My proof for this? In the novel _Grey Knights_ they are ambushed by the titular marines and hold their own in a close up throw down. And seeing as Grey Knights are apparently better than every other Marine ever....

Well, you can see my point. :wink:


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## cheeto (Apr 1, 2011)

Zion said:


> According to Ben Counter the Sisters are BETTER than Space Wolves. My proof for this? In the novel _Grey Knights_ they are ambushed by the titular marines and hold their own in a close up throw down. And seeing as Grey Knights are apparently better than every other Marine ever....
> 
> Well, you can see my point. :wink:


I see your point and it tells me that the authors just screw up sometimes. I remember what you are talking about, but if this is true then the effort of bio-engineering Space Marines is just a total waste of time when all it takes is a nice power suit.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

cheeto said:


> I see your point and it tells me that the authors just screw up sometimes. I remember what you are talking about, but if this is true then the effort of bio-engineering Space Marines is just a total waste of time when all it takes is a nice power suit.


To be fair to the Marine side of things, Sisters benefit from some of the finest training the Imperium can offer. When they were the Daughters of the Emperor they had received training from the finest in the Imperium in all manner of way to kill people. This training would of course be used to train new Sisters when they were chosen to be so. 

Add in a physical training regimine that'd make the Special Forces tired, as well as their unyielding faith....

And you get someone that can't out muscle a Marine but can take one in a straight up fight through technique and likely shooting him in the face.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Disagree. Their training is excellent yes, as are their trainers. Still nowhere near the standard of Astartes however, not even close. Astartes don't just out muscle them. They out pace them, out think them, their reactions are incomparable, their equipment is leagues ahead, sure sisters where power armour, but it's nowhere near the quality of Astartes power armour, nor are they linked to it via a black carapace like Astartes. The sisters are still human despite all of their training, the Astartes aren't really even close any more. 

So no, no matter how good the sisters training is, they don't hold a candle to the Astartes. One on one a sister is going to die almost every time realistically. As for comparing them to Grey Knights and being able to fight them to a stand still, well it's just ludicrous, absurd and laughable, Counter was not thinking at all when he wrote that.


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## cheeto (Apr 1, 2011)

Angel of Blood said:


> Disagree. Their training is excellent yes, as are their trainers. Still nowhere near the standard of Astartes however, not even close. Astartes don't just out muscle them. They out pace them, out think them, their reactions are incomparable, their equipment is leagues ahead, sure sisters where power armour, but it's nowhere near the quality of Astartes power armour, nor are they linked to it via a black carapace like Astartes. The sisters are still human despite all of their training, the Astartes aren't really even close any more.
> 
> So no, no matter how good the sisters training is, they don't hold a candle to the Astartes. One on one a sister is going to die almost every time realistically. As for comparing them to Grey Knights and being able to fight them to a stand still, well it's just ludicrous, absurd and laughable, Counter was not thinking at all when he wrote that.


My thought EXACTLY.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> Disagree. Their training is excellent yes, as are their trainers. Still nowhere near the standard of Astartes however, not even close. Astartes don't just out muscle them. They out pace them, out think them, their reactions are incomparable, their equipment is leagues ahead, sure sisters where power armour, but it's nowhere near the quality of Astartes power armour, nor are they linked to it via a black carapace like Astartes. The sisters are still human despite all of their training, the Astartes aren't really even close any more.
> 
> So no, no matter how good the sisters training is, they don't hold a candle to the Astartes. One on one a sister is going to die almost every time realistically. As for comparing them to Grey Knights and being able to fight them to a stand still, well it's just ludicrous, absurd and laughable, Counter was not thinking at all when he wrote that.


Let's face it, a space marine tops most other creatures in terms of speed, strength, etc. (Tyranid beasties and daemons notwithstanding), and to say that the Sisters "can't hold a candle" to them is disingenuous. We've seen space marines be bested by creatures "inferior" to them, it's not like it's a shocker. Let's recall Dinas Chayne, a biologically standard, if highly-trained, human, who managed to match the skill of of the 1st captain of the Alpha Legion. If he had had a power sword rather than a normal one, he would have actually killed the guy. And what about Inquisitors? They're just normal humans with lots of experience and gear, and I don't think there'd be much complaining if they went toe-to-toe with an Astartes. That goes for crusaders, death-cult assassins, and all manner of other, merely human, warriors. Besides, let's not forget the Sisters' iron discipline, proficiency with their weapons, and their habit of manifesting miraculous events, including having bullets and blades deflected, having their blows strike with preternatural accuracy and strength, and staving off certain death. 

I don't really understand how their equipment is "leagues behind" that of the Space Wolves. Hell, their bolters might have come from the same assembly line. In regards to their power armor, it's clearly of a different design, much less bulky and more suited to the human form, while still offering just as much protection.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

The problem with marines (in fact 40k in general) is their is no standard. The fluff will make a marines as weak as the table top version (in which case all the marine players yell the author is making marines to weak) while in other fluff they will be as strong as movie marines (in which case the non marine players yell that the fluff makes them to strong). 

My personal opinion, when making comprehensions, use Dark Heresy, Death Watch and other Fantasy Flight role-playing games. I mean a human can match a space marine but only after years and years of training and doing many missions. So when a human reaches rank 9 they are equal to a marine of rank 1.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

daxxglax said:


> We've seen space marines be bested by creatures "inferior" to them, it's not like it's a shocker. Let's recall Dinas Chayne, a biologically standard, if highly-trained, human, who managed to match the skill of of the 1st captain of the Alpha Legion.


You really can't gauge the relative ability of two combatants with one fight. Particularly when we don't know what was going through both of the minds of the combatants.

Was Ranko (the captain of their best Terminator elite, not the First Captain) up to snuff? Was there something else hindering him? An injury? Perhaps trepidation from waging war against the Imperium? We don't know. We'd have to see the same or at least similar battles over and over again to get a really feel to how Chayne compares to an astartes.



daxxglax said:


> I don't really understand how their equipment is "leagues behind" that of the Space Wolves. Hell, their bolters might have come from the same assembly line. In regards to their power armor, it's clearly of a different design, much less bulky and more suited to the human form, while still offering just as much protection.


Their bolters are smaller (though all bolters shoot the same caliber, to my knowledge. Maybe smaller propellant charges or something?).

Their power armor also don't have the strength enhancing abilities as astartes power armor.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

hailene said:


> You really can't gauge the relative ability of two combatants with one fight. Particularly when we don't know what was going through both of the minds of the combatants.
> 
> Was Ranko (the captain of their best Terminator elite, not the First Captain) up to snuff? Was there something else hindering him? An injury? Perhaps trepidation from waging war against the Imperium? We don't know. We'd have to see the same or at least similar battles over and over again to get a really feel to how Chayne compares to an astartes.


Fair point, but the broader argument I was making was that there are "normal" humans that can pose a threat to space marines. Of course a battle is going to be influenced by the comabtants' conditions, terrain, etc. I wouldn't assume there was anything wrong with Ranko, besides maybe his slightly lakadaisical manner during the battle, so maybe he just let his guard down? The point is, battles can't really be simplified down to a rock-paper-scissors comparison about who's troops are bigger and stronger. The Sisters of Battle, at the very least, would be a formidable adversary. They're disciplined crack troops, with plenty of firepower, mobility, and even some intimidating close combat specialists. There aren't many troops that wouldn't be at least a little messed up after facing down a squad of Sisters Repentia. 



> Their bolters are smaller (though all bolters shoot the same caliber, to my knowledge. Maybe smaller propellant charges or something?).
> 
> Their power armor also don't have the strength enhancing abilities as astartes power armor.


I think all modern bolters shoot the same kind of ammo. And thanks for correcting me on the armor note.


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## cheeto (Apr 1, 2011)

daxxglax said:


> Let's face it, a space marine tops most other creatures in terms of speed, strength, etc. (Tyranid beasties and daemons notwithstanding), and to say that the Sisters "can't hold a candle" to them is disingenuous. We've seen space marines be bested by creatures "inferior" to them, it's not like it's a shocker. Let's recall Dinas Chayne, a biologically standard, if highly-trained, human, who managed to match the skill of of the 1st captain of the Alpha Legion. If he had had a power sword rather than a normal one, he would have actually killed the guy. And what about Inquisitors? They're just normal humans with lots of experience and gear, and I don't think there'd be much complaining if they went toe-to-toe with an Astartes. That goes for crusaders, death-cult assassins, and all manner of other, merely human, warriors. Besides, let's not forget the Sisters' iron discipline, proficiency with their weapons, and their habit of manifesting miraculous events, including having bullets and blades deflected, having their blows strike with preternatural accuracy and strength, and staving off certain death.
> 
> I don't really understand how their equipment is "leagues behind" that of the Space Wolves. Hell, their bolters might have come from the same assembly line. In regards to their power armor, it's clearly of a different design, much less bulky and more suited to the human form, while still offering just as much protection.


These would be exceptions. SMs are the quintessential human warriors. To start, they are engineered to be the best, then they are given the best gear and weapons and then they do nothing but train for battle. Can a regular human best a marine? Yes. Would you be smart to place your money on the exceptions? No.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

daxxglax said:


> Fair point, but the broader argument I was making was that there are "normal" humans that can pose a threat to space marines. Of course a battle is going to be influenced by the comabtants' conditions, terrain, etc. I wouldn't assume there was anything wrong with Ranko, besides maybe his slightly lakadaisical manner during the battle, so maybe he just let his guard down?


Perhaps he found this to be the most expedient manner? He _knew_ Chayne's saber couldn't actually hurt him. The fastest way to kill him would be to disarm him. The fastest and easiest way to do that? Allow him to get his weapon stuck in his torso.

He knows the weapon can't really hurt him. He can probably guess that Chayne wouldn't be able to pull the weapon out. 

The best trap is a trap that your opponent purposely walks into.



daxxglax said:


> The point is, battles can't really be simplified down to a rock-paper-scissors comparison about who's troops are bigger and stronger.


No one is saying it'd be a rock scissors paper battle. After all, that would mean that Space Marines would beat, say, Tau, who in turn beat SoBs, who then beat Space Marines.

People are saying that Space Marines flat out defeat almost everything (assuming number parity). 

Why are they saying that? Because Space Marines have better specifications across the board. More and more rigorous training. They're stronger. They have more stamina. They're more resilient to injury. They almost always have lived longer, fight more, and survived more desperate situations than a normal human could. Their equipment is better. Just looking at the power armor..

From the Witchhunter Codex, we learn that SoB power armor forgo the advance life support systems and strength enhancing abilities that Astrates power armor provides. They also lack the black carapace implant that the Astartes have to fully synchronize with their armor.

We also know from the Deathwatch rulebook that Astartes ranged weapons don't jive with humans--even in power armor.

"Furthermore, Astartes weapons impsoe a -30 penalty to all Tests made with them by presumptous mortals due to improper scale, weight, and/or recoil--*even in power armor.*"

Notably, the damage delt by Astartes weaponry is considerably higher than normal weapons (ie Astartes bolgun versus a boltgun).



daxxglax said:


> There aren't many troops that wouldn't be at least a little messed up after facing down a squad of Sisters Repentia.


I think Eldar banshees would be able to dance circles around them. In _Void Stalker_ even the Astartes weren't able to hit them within the close confines of a tunnel for a good long while.

Also I somewhat doubt the effectiveness of an eviscerator against power armor.

We know from _Blood Reaver_ that chainswords have little effect against power armor. A Space Marine wielding a chainsword must hit a weak point--the neck joint or the expose cabling--of power armor to hurt the wearer.

True, the eviserator is a two-handed weapon wielded by religious fanatics, but I do not think they'd be all that much larger, if at all, than an Astartes chainsword. Also, an Astartes in power armor is probably at least several times stronger than a Sister Repentia.

Despite the TT saying the eviserator hits like a PF in CC, I don't think in fluff terms that they'd be able to cut through power armor or similarly armored units.



daxxglax said:


> I think all modern bolters shoot the same kind of ammo.


We know that bolters shoot the same caliber bolt. Whether the propellant charge, length, density, weight, ect. of the bolt differs we do not know.

From the earlier quote about Astartes ranged weapons being difficult to use by normal humans, even ones in power armor, I would think that there's some factor outside of caliber affecting the power an Astartes weapon over a normal one.

I mean, heck, why are Astartes bolters so much larger, period? There has to be a reason why.


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