# Plasma pistol or plasma gun?



## Longinus (Apr 21, 2008)

I have a BA tactical squad that rushes forward in a rhino then they mostly stand there and shoot with their bolter. I want to give them some extra punch so i thought of adding a plasma pistol on the sergeant but then I discovered that the plasma gun have the same point cost. The plasma gun have rapid fire wich gives it extra range and a extra shot under half range compared to the plasma pistol thats alot of difference for the same points cost, but still I see some who give their sergeant a plasma pistol(in tactical squads). Could some one explain this to me. I dont mean its stupid I just wondering if there is a thought behind it.


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## Devo (Jun 10, 2008)

Hmmm... I dunno, as far as I know the only upside to the plasma pistol is it can double as a bog standard close combat weapon... apart from that You've got me stumped!


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## oni (Jun 4, 2008)

Well I think it’s pretty clear, if you use the squad for shooting than you should take the plasma gun and not the pistol, I mean what do you think is better? 24” range or 12”? like devo said the plasma pistol is only better if you want the extra attack, but your sergeant probably already has a PB&CCW so you’re really not gaining anything there. The only other reason I can think of is that with the plasma pistol you can shoot and assault, but the rest of the squad can’t and you already said that you use them for shooting.


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## PapaNurgle (Jun 5, 2008)

It depends upon the task of the squad.

A squad that wants to assault should have melta-guns and or plasma pistols. These allow a shot along with an assault move.

Firing a plasma gun prohibits assaulting so you want to give it to something that will be shooting. That's why you see plasma guns in shooty squads and melta-guns or flamers in assault squads.

If your tactical squad just moves up and shoots, then I would suggest the plasma gun over the pistol.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

The other thing is, a plasma pistol can overheat and kill your sergeant; and if you've given him a power-fist that would be a bad thing to happen (even if you haven't, it's still a bad thing to happen).

It's slightly less bad (not _good_, obviously) if a plasma gun overheats and kills a regular marine.

:looking at the numbers cyclops:


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

some people simply like their squads to pack as much heat as possible. its tactically not a bad choice to give the sargeant a plasma pistol if you can see he would use it - you wouldnt bother if he was the sarge of a las/plas squad, but otherwise its generally assumed that in the course of the game he will be shooting his pistol at something. if it kills one marine, which is likely, its made its points back. there are worse tactical decisions you could make. like taking it just for an extra fancy CCW...which is rediculous.

but, adding upgrades like this make the squad, and the model cost more, so its only an upgrade you should take if you have points to burn, or _absoultely have_ to pack an overkill amount of heat.

the plasma gun is a better 'standard' choice. but the plasma pistol isnt bad if you have nothing better to spend the points on.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

do you mean add a plasma pistol to the sergeant, or add a plasma gun to the squad?

I would err on the side of adding the plasma gun to the squad.

It will be more likely to do more than buy itself back, and you have to spend double the points to give the sergeant the plasma pistol, 15 to upgrade him to veteran, 15 for the plasma pistol, a net cost of the marine with plasma gun and his plasma gun.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Because he's BA, he's already 'paid' for the Vet sergeant - you buy BA by the squad, not individually, and that's already been factored in. So in some ways, you could argue, he's already paid for access to the Armoury, he should get his money's worth by buying the Plasma Pistol.

I'm not sure he should though. Plasma scares me because of overheat. OK on troops, not so good on characters I reckon. I think he should give him a powerfist and meltabombs, and leave him with a bolt pistol.

:nodding cyclops:


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

In general I never add plasma pistols to a Sgt. In a stand and shoot squad, I usually take the rifle, Why not shoot 24 when the rest of your squad is.
For assaulty units, why spent 15pts on a pistol that you get to use once, maybe twice. If you Vet your Sgt. it is usually for some reason (Usually). For a CC Sgt. you take your nasty smasher, save those PP points for another marine (or gear or whatever).
I'd rather spend those 15 points on a better CCW which is going to be used more frequently in a CC unit.

*Side note* I almost never use Melta bombs, Thunder Hammers make a much bigger impact on vehicles. Going with Salamander fluff. I'd just be using those thunder hammers anyway.


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## earlgrey (Jun 6, 2008)

I have had lots of hit and miss with a plasma pistol. "gets hot" can happen at the worst time. Losing a vet sarge to it is not something I enjoy. But I have had great success with the plasma gun and if it goes kablooie, well I don't lose much.


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

its really up to how you use them and what your preference is

i would personlay go with the gun because its range and rapid fire and keep the sarge wit ccw and bp


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

With BA as everyone has bolt pistols too it's always good to have a strong shot going in to the enemy before charging. If you take the plasmagun and fired the BP then you've wasted points on the PG. The pistol still gives an asaulty unit some punch. it's all up to if you want the squad to get into combat or rapid fire early... 
And overheating has never happened to me on anything apart from one cannon weildng guy so yay to that


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Red Orc said:


> Because he's BA, he's already 'paid' for the Vet sergeant - you buy BA by the squad, not individually, and that's already been factored in. So in some ways, you could argue, he's already paid for access to the Armoury, he should get his money's worth by buying the Plasma Pistol.
> 
> I'm not sure he should though. Plasma scares me because of overheat. OK on troops, not so good on characters I reckon. I think he should give him a powerfist and meltabombs, and leave him with a bolt pistol.
> 
> :nodding cyclops:


thanks for the claricication, I was unaware, I have successfully finished Blood Angels rehab and have been clean for over 8 years:laugh:. I was unaware that you didn't have the option to not take a veteran sergeant.

I agree that the risk is fine with a file trooper, you can always train more of them. A veteran, especially a veteran sergeant is another matter altogether. they cannot be replaced so easily, and their points cost reflects this. I usually don't bother upgrading pistols anyways, as I like to just get stuck in, and won't get anything other than a cool looking model for the points. If I upgrade the ranged weaponry on my veteran sgts./asp. champs. I usually go with the stormbolter/twin bolter route, as this will compliment their squad's role.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Son of mortarion said:


> . If I upgrade the ranged weaponry on my veteran sgts./asp. champs. I usually go with the stormbolter/twin bolter route, as this will compliment their squad's role.


I agree but with the whole squad equipped with bolt pistols as well it does compliment the squads role. 
Granted I don't have many plasma pistols(4 including mephiston's one out of 116 models) I have two P. guns and two P. cannons though. It's all about would you rather charge in after firing a powerful shot or not IMO....


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Lord Reevan said:


> I agree but with the whole squad equipped with bolt pistols as well it does compliment the squads role.
> Granted I don't have many plasma pistols(4 including mephiston's one out of 116 models) I have two P. guns and two P. cannons though. It's all about would you rather charge in after firing a powerful shot or not IMO....


Sorry if there was some confusion. To clarify, I meant that If I was going to upgrade the vet. Sgt's ranged weapon, it would be when it was with a shooty squad, I Usually only add a power weapon to a vet. Sgt. in an assault orientated squad.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

No confusion really. In an assault orientated squad I'd go with the plasma pistol as it is very helpful with torrent of fire, as that has helped to severely weaken a squad before an assault before hand. such as taking out a character with an inv. save. (last time it was used it did. bad decision by opponent) 
Your post didn't confuse me. I merely had to elaborate on how I agree in that way.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

I don't actually know the BA specific rules, but if you want an assaulty squad, a melta gun for a regular squad member is a better upgrade than a PP for a vet sgt., and a plasma gun is far better if you want a shooty squad. No sense risking your vet. sgt if you don't have to.


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## Archangel (Dec 30, 2007)

Plasma Gun is my vote, I'd rather have the range at the same risk of self destruction.


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

the pistol is nice if you're going to assault, can marines get the two special weapons plus the plasma pistol? if they can that's 5 s7 ap2 shots instead of 4, so i'd say that its worth it for a rhino squad cause they can't assault the turn they pile out you mind as well lay down as much fire as you can once you get 'em up close with the rhino.


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## Absolute035 (Jan 13, 2008)

chaos vince said:


> the pistol is nice if you're going to assault, can marines get the two special weapons plus the plasma pistol? if they can that's 5 s7 ap2 shots instead of 4, so i'd say that its worth it for a rhino squad cause they can't assault the turn they pile out you mind as well lay down as much fire as you can once you get 'em up close with the rhino.


edited: misread something

I wouldn't put plasma pistols on Sergeants, too much risk

plasmagun FTW


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

chaos vince said:


> the pistol is nice if you're going to assault, can marines get the two special weapons plus the plasma pistol? if they can that's 5 s7 ap2 shots instead of 4, so i'd say that its worth it for a rhino squad cause they can't assault the turn they pile out you mind as well lay down as much fire as you can once you get 'em up close with the rhino.


no they can have 1 special, one heavy, and the vet sgt. can have the plas. pistol.


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

you sure? i thought that the specials were on that list of goodies where the heavies are. don't have my codex in front of me though. the pistol on the champ is a risk but when you look at the percentages it's not that big compared to the benifit. 16.6% chance of overheat, 33% chance of save failure after that so odds are 1 out of six shots will overheat of that 2 out of 6 overheats will fail. that means theres less than a 6% chance of killing a model with an overheated plasma pistol.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

that's why I like taking the odd few pistols. They add a good strength shot into an assault. I wouldn't give them everywhere though as that would be stupid...... with all those pistols there will be a few going down for it....
And no BA can only have 1 special and one heavy, plus any equipment for the sergeant. There is a trait to give tac. squads a second special weapon but that's in the 4th. ed codex


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

sorry i'm used to chaos, where my squads can have 2 specials plus the pistol


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

no need to be sorry. It is possible for SM to have two so you were half right


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