# Trueborn vs. Scourge



## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I saw a point made in another Dark Eldar thread here so thought I'd do a quick comparrison.

We all know from first looks that Trueborn are a great unit and are sure to perform due to the variations you can configure with them. 
I'm not here to put them down (well not in a really bad way) but everyone seems to take them and one unit that has been overlooked because of them is the Scourge.
What I hope this does is shed some light on these once useless bretheren whom now have a great amount of peotential if used.


Let's do a few simple comparrisons then shall we-

Tank Hunting

5 Trueborn - 175pts
Venom
4 Blasters

5 Scourge - 140pts
2 Blasters 

or

5 Scourge - 134pts
2 Heatlances

Now we see here that true born for those extra points can get a quick transport protecting there weak hides and 2 more tank killing weapons.

But for less points what do the scourge bring:

1) no reliance on a transport to get them close
2) can move 12" and shoot there weapons off unlike being in a transport
3) they do have better armour saves and don't have a chance to be pinned by loosing a vehicle (they don't have one)
4) they don't need the Duke to give them the DS ability
5) the others come stock standard with Shard Carbines something trueborn have to pay for
6) they can get Heatlances - mix this with DS and tanks can go bye bye the minute they come in close no matter the AV value

The major con here is they can't have 4 special weapons in 5 men greatly increasing there points to do this which in turn takes a chunk out of other areas of the army.

Now let's take a look at another common way to run these 2 units

If I take trueborn it will be one unit though I see Scourge better than these - here's why:

10 Trueborn - 120pts 
now to make these guys worthwhile they need a Raider so +60pts
So we are looking at -
180pts
but to give them more shots (and if the Duke is in benefit from 3+ poison) we need all Shard Carbines which are another 50pts
so our unit of 10 Trueborns are now 230pts (this is without the Duke in there which would alter this by approx 20pts but then add his costs in on top of that lower cost)

Scourge in comparrison to the Trueborn in Raider with Shard Carbines

10 scourge - 220pts
10pts cheaper, hmmm... 
So what do they have over the Trueborn this time and what Treuborn do better:
1) have jump packs so no need for a Raider
2) they come with Shard Carbines so no need to purchase them
3) Scourge have a better amour save that of 4/6++ (unlike the Trueborn they can survive boler fire)
4) 12" move and DS ability again
5) They aren't in a transport so can be hidden by TLOS a bit better as they are smaller though (size of unit doesn't count as 10 bunched up is around the size of a raider on the ground)

They don't however have any decent characters to join them and buff them so they stay standard, they have no transport to take any massive small arms fire away from them though having a 6++ save is nothing to complain about, they can't move through cover without taking Dangerous T tests though they can move around it and still be out of LOS.

So on the tank killing side we have trueborn who come out on top in small numbers for the amount of weapons they can take in small squads though are more points than they less special weapon equipped scourge (though scourge can take heatlances and DS mind you)

On the anti-infantry though is where I believe Scourge shine - for Trueborn to be good at this they cost 10 pts more and *have* to be in a Raider to get anyhwhere (and cant move over 6" otherwise they loose there chance to shoot) where as Scourge can go 12" and move and shoot as they like.

Whilst in the anti-infantry Trueborn can get the Duke he is adding more points to that fragile unit so if they loose the raider they are in trouble of dying fast (on a seperate note I think GW piled to many special abilities on to one cheap but weak character). 

This is why I feel Scourge to be a better choice instead of Trueborn, if you run Hellions as TROOPS this is even better as you don't take up FA slots (though I don't know why you'd take tahta menay Hellions - personal opinion) and taking Scourge for anti-infantry over Trueborn allows you more acess to the Specialised CC units of the Dark Eldar army namedly - Incubi, Mandrakes, Grotesques, Bloodbrides, Harlequins etc...

Hope this gives an insight on what the benefits of Scourge are


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

From your own post for an extra 10 points the trueborn get a raider. You've covered the disadvantages of the raider, ie it can be killed but not the advantages.

A fast skimmer can get the troops in there quickly and it also has a dark lance and an ability to clutter up the battlefield to your advantage.

I do think scourges have a place but a squad of ten in an anti infantry role is probably better carried out by somebody else.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Well technically the Trueborn get a Raider at 60pts so on foot they would be 170pts being cheaper but stupidly in-effective.

I didn't see the need in covering the advantages of the Raider as it's not about them and the rules for them haven't changed since last edition. The point I wanted to make with the Scourge vs Trueborn in Raider is the fact the Raider has to move 6" a turn to be able to shoot with crew on board giving a total range of 24" where as the Scourge get 30" range and if they elected not to shoot first turn could get a possible 18" move which is only 6" less than a normal raider.

Remember with Trueborn your most likely going to take 1-2 upgrades to make the Raider stay alive further increasing the points you spend on them.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

I do agree with most of your post and think there is a place for scourges. Maybe small mobile tank hunters.

I just think that for the 10 points more you get a more flexible and tweakable unit of models with a lance as well.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

I can see 134 points for the heatlance scourges being a bargain. I'll give it a whirl. Although, in comparison to reavers, are scourges made redundant?


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

For heat lances to work, you need to Deep Strike within 6" of an enemy tank. With only a 50% chance to turn up on turn 2. That's too much random chance for me when I could turbo a jetbike squad instead, and hit any target within 54" of their deployment spot on turn 2 for sure. Not only that, but they are presenting a serious threat that the enemy must either deal with (reducing fire aimed at my other units) or ignore (and suffer the consequences). 156pts instead of the Scourge. 22pts buys you an extra man, a 3++ on turn one, T4, and a far higher chance that you will be precisely where you want to be on turn 2.

And the Scourges still die on 2+ to Heavy Bolters/Flamers/Autocannon. A 6++ is practically worthless in my mind.


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

Is it in the BRB that states all jump infantry can deep strike? Because upon looking - scourges do not have the Deep Strike special rule.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Blue Liger said:


> The major con here is they can't have 4 special weapons in 5 men greatly increasing there points to do this which in turn takes a chunk out of other areas of the army.


There's no need for four special weapons when you're using Heat Lances. Those things make a mess of all but the heaviest of tanks.


> Now let's take a look at another common way to run these 2 units
> 
> If I take trueborn it will be one unit though I see Scourge better than these - here's why:
> 
> ...


This seems horribly inefficient. Why take such a large unit and why give all of them shard carbines? In my mind the largest Trueborn unit you'd want to take is eight and that's pushing it - six would be a much safer number with perhaps six shard carbines at most regardless of squad size.



> Scourge in comparrison to the Trueborn in Raider with Shard Carbines


This is the problem, I think. In this example we're equipping Trueborn with weapons that you probably wouldn't want to take entirely for the purpose of comparing them with Scourges. Since you wouldn't actually want to equip the Trueborn like this in a real game it sort of renders the entire point redundant.



> So on the tank killing side we have trueborn who come out on top in small numbers for the amount of weapons they can take in small squads though are more points than they less special weapon equipped scourge (though scourge can take heatlances and DS mind you)


Agreed. Also keep in mind that Scourges can do extremely well in an army that includes a WWP. The biggest weakness of the Scourges is that they're soft (I know they have good armor ((for Dark Eldar anyway)) but no matter how you cut it T3 and 4+ armor isn't particularly resilient). _Deep Strike_ is risky and it's rather easy to scatter outside of the Heat Lance's sweet spot range (9" for the melta rule). There's no chance of being shot before getting to act when using a Portal and you'll always be able to move 12" toward wherever you want the unit from the Portal which makes it quite reliable.



> This is why I feel Scourge to be a better choice instead of Trueborn, if you run Hellions as TROOPS this is even better as you don't take up FA slots (though I don't know why you'd take tahta menay Hellions - personal opinion) and taking Scourge for anti-infantry over Trueborn allows you more acess to the Specialised CC units of the Dark Eldar army namedly - Incubi, Mandrakes, Grotesques, Bloodbrides, Harlequins etc...


Scourges are better at anti-infantry duties whereas Trueborn are better at packing in tons of anti-tank weaponry for cheap. Scourges can still perform passable anti-tank duties with the use of Heat Lances and a Webway Portal, though.


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

Blue Liger said:


> I didn't see the need in covering the advantages of the Raider as it's not about them and the rules for them haven't changed since last edition. The point I wanted to make with the Scourge vs Trueborn in Raider is the fact the Raider has to move 6" a turn to be able to shoot with crew on board giving a total range of 24" where as the Scourge get 30" range and if they elected not to shoot first turn could get a possible 18" move which is only 6" less than a normal raider.


The problem is the raider effectively becomes part of the squad. Not only because you have include its cost in your comparison but because its existence is integral to the passenger's tactics & survival.



Blue Liger said:


> Raider has to move 6" a turn to be able to shoot with crew on board giving a total range of 24" where as the Scourge get 30" range and if they elected not to shoot first turn could get a possible 18" move which is only 6" less than a normal raider.


To be fair, the raider may move 12" and the passengers can disembark to fire. This isn't that fancy as pretty much every army can do this but what makes it a big deal is that we can disembark from any point of the raider. See here:
http://www.heresy-online.net/tactics/slick-tricks-point-assault-ambush-by-intereovivo/

on how to get extra inches (for less!). Basically by pivoting your raider on the center & then disembarking from the front tip you're able to squeeze an extra 6" - meaning you've flown (12"), pivoted (3ish" - not exactly sure how far it is), disembarked (3; 2" from hull + 1" base) for a total of 18" before your gun's range.

Of course, another tactic with the raider is to use it as mobile cover. Shooting splinter at something with a coversave or a 4+ or better save anyways? Well drive up & present your broadside & then disembark on the _far side_ of the raider. This can ensure that any returning fire will be met with a 4+ coversave.

The other advantages of the raider are obvious.

I'm not disagreeing with your point, I truly don't believe the trueborn dakka is all that great. The elite section is where our melee shines.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

effigy22 said:


> Is it in the BRB that states all jump infantry can deep strike? Because upon looking - scourges do not have the Deep Strike special rule.


Yes, the jump pack confers the DS rule to those whom have it.

The main point I wanted to get across in this article is that taking the Duke with Trueborn all with Shard Carbines etc in a Raider isn't the most cost effective or efficient way to run them as Scourge do thier job better and the fact that Scourge also don't take away slots from those precious big CC hitters that a DE army will need.

@ Sethis you do you raise a good point about DS though you do then have to weigh up how much do you need those bikes to survive as if that's half your anti tank and the other half is Ravagers etc, then your in trouble, the thing about DS is yes it's onl;y 50% chnace but you wont have the problem of loosing your men 1st or 2nd turn from enemy shooting, with DSing you need to pick you area carefully hence why I say squads of 5 Scourge easy to fit in the tighest spots.
I've never been worried about being wounded on a 2+ you get used to that playing any form of Eldar, though a 6++ save might not be much it can mean the difference between getting that shot off or not, there are many weapons to ignore cover saves when being shot at not many that ignore invul saves.


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