# Assault Squad: Flamer vs Plasma Pistol



## Terminator (Nov 17, 2007)

For marine assault squads, what's the better weapon, plasma pistol or flamer? The plasma is obviously the popular choice, but in considering my all-comers list (and having exactly 2 extra points to spare) I wondered if flamers might not be even better. Some situations they could prevail in: 

1) Large squads of GEQ (50 Conscripts, 30 Ork Boyz, 32 Hormagaunts) where burning a large number of them down will help overcome them in assault 
2) Squads of light nasties that you want to thin down as much as possible before assaulting them (Harlequins, Genesetalers, Farseer/Warlocks, etc)
3) Assaulting into cover - flamers allow no cover save 

The only drawbacks I can think of are: 
1) Lose an attack (in my 10-man assult squad, no big deal) 
2) Not effective against vehicles and monstrous creatures, as plasma is 
3) Could possibly burn away too many opponents and not be able to assault (simply don't fire then) 

I think the models are cool and I would like to throw a couple of flame templates into my army. Sounds off the feedback! Thanks!


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

It's a conundrum. At present, I'm fielding plasma, but I have been thinking of swapping them to flamers for precisely the reasons you mention (two of my more regular enemies being orks and nid-horde armies). I have enough anti-armour in the rest of my army to take eg the ork trukks, what I could do with is some fast-moving flamers to break up troop concentrations (for when the frag missiles, heavy bolters, and flamers in my tac squads aren't doing the trick!)

On paper at least, flamers are better v horde armies. Dunno - why don't you try it? Either get some more assault marines, or ask your regular gaming buddies if you can proxy the flamers for a few games to test them out.

Of course, you could start by swapping one over, and seeing how that goes.


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## Dartanyun (Nov 14, 2007)

i play seraphims with 2 flamers and it works well. with a 12" move burning to many models is less of an issue.


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

thats the number one reason to use a flamer in an assault squad for me.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Above poster - beautiful model.

Original poster - the popular configuration is a pair of plasma pistols, but I never bought into it. With my old Blood Angels I used to take a single flamer and a power fist on the Veteran Sergeant.

The way I see it is this: Assault Marines are expensive models already. There's no need to risk having any of them die in my own shooting phase. >.<


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

I find that I change my list depending on what I am fighting.

If I am fighting somthing with termies/heavy infantry or light tanks, Ill bring the plasmas.
But If I am fighting soft infantry or swarms, or coverlovers then Ill bring flamers. but it never is a bad idea to have one of each.

after all, it is a lot of fun to turn firewarriors into on-firewarriors.


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## FrozenOrb (Dec 23, 2006)

Katie Drake said:


> The way I see it is this: Assault Marines are expensive models already. There's no need to risk having any of them die in my own shooting phase. >.<


SM only die 1 in 18 times. In theory the extra 5 points for a Plasma Pistol makes them cheaper because they're now so much more effective than with a BP. Just 5 points for a Plasma Pistol on an Assault Marine puts it on the list of awesome buys for a SM army. (That said the flamer can also rock.)

P.S. That Assault Marine flamer mini looks sweet.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

FrozenOrb said:


> SM only die 1 in 18 times. In theory the extra 5 points for a Plasma Pistol makes them cheaper because they're now so much more effective than with a BP. Just 5 points for a Plasma Pistol on an Assault Marine puts it on the list of awesome buys for a SM army. (That said the flamer can also rock.)
> 
> P.S. That Assault Marine flamer mini looks sweet.


I'm well aware of the statistics, but... well, to be polite, statistics are balls. They don't mean anything. I've had terrible luck with plasma weapons, so I tend to not recommend them to others. 

EDIT: That being said, it'd probably be more constructive if we were to leave the merit of mathhammer stuff out of this topic. If anyone wants to continue this conversation, feel free to do so with me in PM or even on MSN.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

I like plasma well enough but tend to favour flamers in a fast moving unit as you can really get close and do some damage with it. Just ask my winged daemon prince with wind of chaos


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## Terminator (Nov 17, 2007)

I like plasma a lot (just have to accept a few losses) but flamers in the assault squad are really starting to sound appealing. Plus I love the models too. I think in an all-comers army they'll really come in handy against certain opponents.


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## Asmodai (Dec 30, 2006)

I like the Plasma Pistol as it gives additional flexibility to deal with light tanks. It can also provide a mobile shooting element in the event I decide to split the squad and put the Sergeant/PF in one half and the PP's in the other.


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## Terminator (Nov 17, 2007)

Good point, although that's with BA/DA only.


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## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

I've never been a fan of weapons that kill you when you use them. I go with , "Plan for the best, and expect the worst." Murphy's Law burned me more then 1/18 using Plasma Weapons, so I'm not a big fan. Plus the new Codex's(sp?) is charging 3x the points a piece for them. But then again I'm cynical and far from an optimist. :so_happy:


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I've always put my trust in plasma pistols. They're inexpensive for Codex armies, and ultimately, assault squads don't shoot that much anyway if you're using them properly. They're purely a backup for the odd situation where you need to shoot something with the unit before the charge. As a dedicated assault unit, Assault Squads really need to maximize the number of attacks they're throwing, so it doesn't really make sense to me to take the flamethrower and forfeit being double-armed.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Your Assault pals can already hurt the rank and file badly. You don't need guns to kill them. What you do need, though, is to be able to kill the things that can kill you. Dreads, Wraithlords, and the like are all very bad things to get close to. Plasma gives you a deterrent, as well as a means of hitting harder when you use them to harry high-value low-resilience targets like Devastators. Flamers are redundant against anything thatd doesn't come no a swarm base, and if you get them into combat with a swarm base it's your own damn fault.

Just don't give your Fist-guy a Plasma Pistol.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

With ridiculous 15 point plasma pistols, I have a hard time justifying anything past a (also ridiculously expensive) Powerfist for my Blood Angels Assault Squads. I'll pay 25 for a powerfist because they're so damned useful, but after that I'm not spending a point more than I have to. And for some reason they took away our flamer option.

However, Veteran Assault Squads have a lot better options. 

In those squads it's usually a powerfist (or thunderhammer) and a pair of Meltaguns. If I still have points, storm bolters are cheap and effective. Trading a 4+ attack in assualt for a 3+ shooting attack.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

The Son of Horus said:


> I've always put my trust in plasma pistols. They're inexpensive for Codex armies, and ultimately, assault squads don't shoot that much anyway if you're using them properly. They're purely a backup for the odd situation where you need to shoot something with the unit before the charge. As a dedicated assault unit, Assault Squads really need to maximize the number of attacks they're throwing, so it doesn't really make sense to me to take the flamethrower and forfeit being double-armed.


Flamers are incredibly useful even against other MEQs. If used right, you can tag around 6 models, which should kill a single Marine (6 hits, 3 wounds, 1 failed save on average). They also don't kill your own models, and are excellent at clearing rooms of things like Orks or Tyranids.


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## SPYDeR13 (Dec 18, 2007)

I think the first thing you look at is who are you fighting against? Plasma is great against low Sv units and light Av units. While flamers are at there best against large units. 

Personally I would take the flamer out of the two because I can always take a plasma pistol with my sergeant.

So both work very well, just at different things.:good:


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

If you do take flamers, just be sure not to over-load on them. Two flamers can cause a lot of damage to horde units. You could end up denying yourself a charge if the enemy starts pulling a bunch of casualties out of the front of his line.

Now all the sudden you're stranded out in the open


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

I have been super burned so many times by shooting That I never ever shoot before assaulting unless theres no possible way I could kill enough models to have the enemy possibly run away.

something is wrong with the game if I fear shooting the enemy.


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