# Ork Nobs with Cybork Bodies...why?



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I know, 2 in one day! :shok:

This time, I'm questioning whether or not Ork Nobs need Cybork Bodies. Not Nob Bikers, they can't get enough of that 4+/4+/5+ action - and they certainly take enough abuse to make it vital! No, I'm talking about foot Nobs, or, since they're more prevalent, and better, Battlewagon Nobs. Is the investment of almost another Ork worth it per model? You've got an AV14 transport, and, presumably, a 4+ save when you get out, with T4 and 2W. Is the expense justifiable?

I'm leaning towards no...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Why not just take Nob Bikers then?  Still, if anyone brings any Powerfists/Lightning Claws/Lascannons etc Nobz Days are numbered.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

That's just it though, LCs are on the decline (thanks Vulkan and new SS rules!) and Banshees aren't _quite_ good enough for most competitive Eldar builds...so the only common things the Cybork would be needed against are ID weapons like Fists...and it's unreliable for that.


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## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

If you are spending that many points on the Nobs, you might as well get Meganobs. a 2+ save is better than 4+/4+. And they are way cheaper.

The way I figure it is if you are sending this unit to fight something where a 5+ invulnerable save will make the difference between life and death, maybe you should have them kill something else...


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

No, these only have a 4+, Nob Bikes have 4+/4+...I DO recommend getting CBs on Nob Bikes, but regular Nobs have only a 4+...Meganobs are more expensive than these ones, and they don't have FnP, either...

NOTE TO ALL: By 4+/4+/5+ I list Armour/Cover/Inv saves. FnP isn't being considered in this line-up


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## PowerEncarnate (Apr 15, 2009)

Hmmm. I think it is more a measure of do you want to model all the CBs. Because really it boils down to a matter of personal taste. From what I've seen of the ork codex you really have to have a feel for how you run the army, even more so then most armies. personally I would take them, but thats just because I like the way they look. very hard and, well, orky. But thats just me.


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## englanda (Dec 2, 2008)

Personally I don't take them. Why would I throw my nobs into multiple power weapons when I could just shoot that squad with 60 shootas boyz and charge his unarmed friends instead? That's the reason you take the wagon, so you can choose your targets. It's the same reason I don't put cybork on my HQs either.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

I do,

It's 5 points a model for a 1/3 chance not to die. With so many methods to deal with AV14 these days, I like it incase they need to footslog OR if you get charged by something nasty - it happens.


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## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

So many methods to deal with AV 14? Lets see....meltaguns and....wait, no thats about it (well railguns too, but who plays tau?).

If you buy Nobs powerklaws, they cost more than Meganobz. MANz really are pretty cheap for what you get.

Englanda hit the nail on the head. You can choose their target, so don't have them mess around with a unit with tons of powerweapons.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> No, these only have a 4+, Nob Bikes have 4+/4+...I DO recommend getting CBs on Nob Bikes, but regular Nobs have only a 4+...Meganobs are more expensive than these ones, and they don't have FnP, either...
> 
> NOTE TO ALL: By 4+/4+/5+ I list Armour/Cover/Inv saves. FnP isn't being considered in this line-up


wouldnt the nob bikerz be 4+/3+ then- cant see much worth in not turbo-boosting them if they arent gonna be in combat. 


TBH I dont really get the reliance on nobz: if your going with numbers stay with numbers, if your going with elite/fast then use the bikerz. Nobz are nasty but are far too slow. Shove them in a battlewagon and its got a big target painted on it... even worse is that it needs to be open-topped to be properly effective.


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## the.alleycat.uk (Jun 11, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> No, these only have a 4+, Nob Bikes have 4+/4+...I DO recommend getting CBs on Nob Bikes, but regular Nobs have only a 4+...Meganobs are more expensive than these ones, and they don't have FnP, either...
> 
> NOTE TO ALL: By 4+/4+/5+ I list Armour/Cover/Inv saves. FnP isn't being considered in this line-up


Aren't they still limited to just the one save though? [plus FnP] Or does something allow them to take multiple saves?


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

In my experience the nobz eventually have to get out of their battlewagon, and shortly after that people tend to start shooting at them with battlecannons and hitting them with thunder hammers. The invulnerable is kind of useful, and arguably better than the 4+ armour.

MANz are fun. Ordinary nobz do get to have some guys with faster hits though, which can actually be useful against other people's orks. If you want everyone to have klaws, go for the MANz.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Its the S8 weapons that'll really cause you trouble.. and with the exception of the nid barbed strangler everything that strong will be AP4 or better. The 5+ inv is therefore very good- it'll mean your unit is almost 50% more survivable then otherwise.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Personally I'd take cybork over 'eavy armour because there's a painboy in the squad who already lets the squad deal with regular wounds pretty well. The difference between cybork + FNP and 'eavy armour + FNP is only 8% more wounds from regular stuff but the cybork gives you a 33% shot against power weapons and ap 4 or better ranged weapons, both of which the squad is likely to run into. Even if it's not a squad entirely kitted out with power weapons, the chance of running into a character with a power weapon or a sergeant with a power fist is highly likely.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

So, overall, the consensus is that of Nobz are on foot the Cybork is actually better than the Eavy Armour, despite the Eavy's ability to withstand Bolter/Shuriken fire?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Yeah I would say that. Especially since in any well deployed orc list the Nobs wouldnt be on the frontline- having a nice unit of 30 boyz in front to get killed in place of your nobz is a fine tactic... if your nobz get shot at your getting a 4+ cover save anyway... in combat its the power weapons and fists that'll do most of the damage to you anyway- if you're getting FNP and can split wounds your laughing, no FNP and possible instant death is painful so should be at guarded against as much as possible.


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## Dynamike (Jul 13, 2009)

I take cybork and it saves my Nobz from all kinds of stuff. Like charging a group of assault termies and being able to survive lightning claws is nice. Granted you don't get FNP but still 1/3 chance to protect when you should just lose a wound straight away. I use my Nobz to kill the hard stuff and hard stuff usually have power weapons or something like that which cybork helps me with.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I go 10 Nobz with eavy armour and a pain boy give them all Big choppas and if points allow Cyborks after, then you place them in your battlewagon with a Warboss


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Blue Liger said:


> I go 10 Nobz with eavy armour and a pain boy give them all Big choppas and if points allow Cyborks after, then you place them in your battlewagon with a Warboss


How many Klaws?


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## Dynamike (Jul 13, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> How many Klaws?


I have 10 Nobz, 1 Waaagh! banner, 2 power claws, 2 kombi-skorcha, 2 big choppas, 1 painboy(w/ grot orderly), 10 x cybork body.

They ride in a battlewagon.

As for the power claws, I use 2 because it is best against some type of units(tanks, nidzillas, termies, etc.)

:mrgreen:


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## KageRyuuUji (Jan 16, 2009)

So what you sayin is, that Nobs on Bikes can still take a Doc? Did not know that, bet my buddy will like to hear that one uh huh.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Pauly55 said:


> If you are spending that many points on the Nobs, you might as well get Meganobs. a 2+ save is better than 4+/4+. And they are way cheaper.


I don't like meganobz because their slow but purposeful SUCKS for an assault-based unit. Nothing like rolling 1d6 charge and falling short of the enemy so you can get the shit shot out of you next turn and lose your charge bonus when the enemy moves inf or the kill.

That said, biker nobs are a terrible point sink and not worth the cost either. Especially if you're wasting extra points getting them an invul save they don't really need. The less likely you are to use a save the less it's worth spending points on, this is compounded by how expensive the unit already is. You'll be tempted to throw more points into it to protect your investment, but all you're doing is shoveling more effs into one very small, expensive basket.

Warbikes are great. Use them properly, as a run and gun unit and you won't really need an invul save since they *should* be using their speed and mobility to get those nasty guns into range and getting the hell out of the way. Keep them at the edge of their range as the enemy moves, you'll be out of reach of flamers and assaults, rendering the invul save pointless.

Biker nobz are a terrible waste of points. They give you extra durability and assault capability, but their cost is insane and their effectiveness isn't enough better to justify it. 3 bare-assed nob bikers with cybork bodies cost twice as much as 3 bare-assed warbikers (and that's assuming you've got grotsnik in the army rather than buying a painboy). Are they twice as effective? Not really. They have twice the wounds, but not twice the attacks or twice the shots with their guns, or twice the chance to hit.

You start loading gear and painboyz and everything else on it and you get to three times the cost. You take one unit of tricked out nob bikers, I'll take three units of warbokes and we'll see who wins.



Pauly55 said:


> So many methods to deal with AV 14? Lets see....meltaguns and....wait, no thats about it (well railguns too, but who plays tau?).


And lascanons, and missile launchers, and aiming for the huge side profile on a battlewagon...or a handfull of guardsmen charging it with krak grenades and blowing out its flimsy rear armor...or one space marine with a powerfist...hell, he could bare-hand it if he's lucky.

Yup, totally safe. 



> If you buy Nobs powerklaws, they cost more than Meganobz. MANz really are pretty cheap for what you get.


 Except regular nobs can actually close in reliably. 

Seriously, 1d6" on a charge instead of 6"? On an assault based unit?

Plus, you don't NEED that many klaws. I usually only buy two and the rest go in either bare knuckles, or with a big choppa and a kombi-skorcha. And most armies will have a power weapon upgrade for at least one member of any given squad...and most players will take it for all but their most well-entrenched rear-guard units. Sure, you can avoid rare units that have lots of PWs, but it's hard to have a useful assualt unit that doesn;t come up against them at some point

An invul save is usually a worthy investment in a unit that will be seeing a lot of close combat where iugnored saves are not uncommon. 



Tim/Steve said:


> wouldnt the nob bikerz be 4+/3+ then- cant see much worth in not turbo-boosting them if they arent gonna be in combat.
> 
> 
> TBH I dont really get the reliance on nobz: if your going with numbers stay with numbers, if your going with elite/fast then use the bikerz. Nobz are nasty but are far too slow. Shove them in a battlewagon and its got a big target painted on it... even worse is that it needs to be open-topped to be properly effective.


I'm not a huge fan of nobz either. One unit as a strong assault core, maybe escorting your warboss is one thing, but they're a huge point sink and not as effective as just buying more boyz.

That said, cybork bodies aren't a *bad* investment on normal nobz. Because they're a CC oriented unit they will be running into a lot of PWs, even picking your battles you've got to deal with one in most squads

BUT, they're still not a great investment.

The key to orks is cheap and effective. And generally it's hard to argue with "I could buy X-many boyz for the cost of that upgrade"

It's fun to have loaded up glory units, but in the end, you've got to ask yourself "Is it worth not having a whole extra mob of boyz?"

The most effective ork lists tend to be the ones with tons of barely-upgraded models. asic and lots of it.


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

Ive began to experiment with the idea of cybork bodies on normal nobs. I must say it works. But it does end up costing a lot.Its worth almost 10 boyz which is a pretty big investment.

However nobs are one those units that can unleash so much destruction. You ask anyone how they would counter nobs and their answer tends to be anything S8 or better so this includes battlecannons , power fists and meltaguns and much more. What all these weapons have in common is the high AP and S. Instant death means that the extar wound is wasted. The high strength means it will wound most of the time. The high ap means you will never get an armour save. Sticking to cover is a no brainer but there will always be times when you aren't in cover. The 5+ invul counter all of this as it gives you a good chance of preventing a nob from dying instantly.

This is very situational , but people can and will aim all high stregnth guns at you nobs and like said they all have high ap's. Its always better safe than sorry.


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## Lord_Murdock (Jul 16, 2008)

Galahad said:


> Seriously, 1d6" on a charge instead of 6"? On an assault based unit?


Don't Meganobz roll 2D6 (not 1) and pick the highest for how far they can charge, like assaulting into difficult terrain? 

Of course you can still get snake-eyes at inopportune moments, but still... 2D6 makes it more likely to get a decent number.


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

I think the general idea is that they are not reliable because of their movement. There is all the chance in world you can roll a six for you movement but at the same stime a something very low can be rolled. Its just not trustworthy on such an expensive unit.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

I'm a little late here in this convo but I will still take them.

5 points for a chance against most things out there, well worth it. Battlewagons blow up at the most inopportune times and granted that they are faster than boyz, the chance of getting a 4+ cover might be a little hard.

Things off the top of my head that I see regularly - Power weapons, power fists - 'nuff said. Almost every army has some sort of killy unit with some way of ignoring armour - my nobz usually head for it as they are usually comparable. Having that save has been enough for me to pull out as the victor in more than one combat. I would gladly sacrifice roughly 9 boyz to protect my 600 ish point investment of nobz.

That being said, just take nob bikers and save the battlewagons for boyz/lootas


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Regular warbikes are less resilient, in terms of morale. Nobz are a lot less likely to flee for the hills.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

TheKingElessar said:


> Regular warbikes are less resilient, in terms of morale. Nobz are a lot less likely to flee for the hills.



I agree, however a squad of warbikes makes a great mobile firebase in an ork army. The TL essentially makes them BS3 and its a high str gun - good for mowing down infantry - especially hordy armies.

Shoota boyz, warbikes, kans /w big shootas, and lootas actually make a pretty decent army - ... Enough paint at a wall and all that.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Oh, absolutely. I'm a diehard Speed Freek. Just ensuring cons get noted too.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Galahad said:


> Biker nobz are a terrible waste of points. They give you extra durability and assault capability, but their cost is insane and their effectiveness isn't enough better to justify it. 3 bare-assed nob bikers with cybork bodies cost twice as much as 3 bare-assed warbikers (and that's assuming you've got grotsnik in the army rather than buying a painboy). Are they twice as effective? Not really. They have twice the wounds, but not twice the attacks or twice the shots with their guns, or twice the chance to hit.
> 
> You start loading gear and painboyz and everything else on it and you get to three times the cost. You take one unit of tricked out nob bikers, I'll take three units of warbikes and we'll see who wins.


-What-.

No offense Galahad, but this might be the single most wrong thing I've ever heard.

Bikers are scary because of wound allocation. If I just had to pound them with one wound to wipe them off the table they'd be no threat at all. And I've never viewed them as a threat. Even if you charged with both squads, you might do a few more wounds, but you'd be removing twice as many models(not powerfist wounds however).

How can you possi-. Sigh. Your reasoning seems solid when reading it but it leaves alot of important details out that are very vital towards the counterpoint.

Needless to say I disagree. As for ork nobs with Cybork, no they do not need it, they need to fall down when I shoot them with vindicator shells and power fists.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

TheKingElessar said:


> Regular warbikes are less resilient, in terms of morale. Nobz are a lot less likely to flee for the hills.


How's that?
They have the same leadership score and can come in bigger units. They can actually start off fearless.

Sure, they're a little easier to kill, but you can field two or three times as many for the same prices as nobz...so when that one nobz mob you brought takes a couple casualties and buggers off, you're out a good quarter of your army's points (at least). One squad of warbikers takes enough losses to start failing tests and buggers off and you;re out a moderately expensive unit, but not crippled because there's two more waiting in the wings.

As da warboss would say, "Moar iz betta!"

And I'm aware that meganobz are 2d6 pick highest, but that;s cumbersome to type. They're still bloody unreliable.

Even picking the highest, your average is going to be about 4". You *could* get 6", but you cannot by any means count on it. You have to maneuver your slow, clanky monsters within a couple inches of the foe to be sure you can even make contact, let alone get everyone in on it.

Not worth it.
If they had the option to take some heavy weapons they might not be terrible, but as they stand meganobz are not worth it as an assault unit.

Side note: While I think cybork on warbikes is a waste (especially expensive biker nobz), if you've got grotsnik laying around, I'm not averse to giving my deffkoptas cybork bodies. The extra last chance save can save an expensive model from getting krak-missiled to death.

The cushy 4+ cover save of the warbikers makes the cybork bodies superfluous when in a shooting scenario


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I think the prevalence of Heavy Flamers in the IG Dex makes the Cybork at least worth a serious look.

Regarding Bikes Morale, yes, initially Fearless is great, but, that is also easily attainable with Nob Bikes. It takes approx 9 Bolter rounds to down one Warbike, and 18 to take a Nob Biker, assuming no wound allocation. Each loss to the Warbikes is more important, for two reasons - only the Nob has the Ld of the Nobs in the alternative. If he goes, you're down to a 'lovely' 56% chance of passing. Telion, and wound saturation, both make this possible, whereas it's more or less impossible in a Nobs Squad (to down the inevitable Warboss, who provides an even greater Ld boost) - and it reduces the impact the Bosspole can have, should it be called upon. With a Bosspole in Bikes, 50% chance to kill a Boy - bringing you closer to, again, losing the Nob's bonus Ld, and going under 50% (ie, into non-regroup range). In the Nob Bikers, the Bosspole has a minimal effect, as you choose to put the wound on someone who won't die.

All this said, without playing Wound allocation games, a Warbiker is only half as hard to kill, for a third of the cost. As Waffles said, it's equipping each guy differently that makes the unit. If there aren't at least 7 different guys to allocate onto, then don't use Nob Bikes, use regular ones. Obviously, using regular Bikes essentially forces you to use Wazzdakka though...


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

TheKingElessar said:


> I think the prevalence of Heavy Flamers in the IG Dex makes the Cybork at least worth a serious look.


Only if you're dumb enough to close with a HF-packing unit and not assault. 



> Regarding Bikes Morale, yes, initially Fearless is great, but, that is also easily attainable with Nob Bikes.


Nobz Mobz max out at 10, you need 11+ for fearless.
Could attach an IC or two, but you're just throwing more eggs into the basket.



> It takes approx 9 Bolter rounds to down one Warbike, and 18 to take a Nob Biker, assuming no wound allocation.


It takes one krak missile to get either.
Of course, you'll still have a warbiker or two to spare. Not so much with the nobz



> Each loss to the Warbikes is more important, for two reasons - only the Nob has the Ld of the Nobs in the alternative. If he goes, you're down to a 'lovely' 56% chance of passing.


Not sure what you're trying to say here.
Nobz and warbikers, and warbiker nobz both have LD7...taking out the nob leading the warbike mob does nothing as far as LD goes (besides reducing their number)

If anything having more, and cheaper models means your losses are *less* important.



> All this said, without playing Wound allocation games, a Warbiker is only half as hard to kill, for a third of the cost.


Which makes them more efficient.
A nob biker is only twice as hard to kill but costs three times more. Easy math. Especially since aside from durability, nobz aren;t twice or three times as good as warbikers at other stuff. A higely expensive ork unit just isn't anywhere near as effective as several less expensive ork units.



> As Waffles said, it's equipping each guy differently that makes the unit. If there aren't at least 7 different guys to allocate onto, then don't use Nob Bikes, use regular ones.


The problem with large nobz mobz, *especially* biker nobz, *especially* if you're giving them a ton of extra swag and wasting points on bionics, is that the cost is *insane*.

Seriously, price out a decent-sized nobz mob with the extra upgrades you like putting on them and then try to fit it into a 1500 point, or even 2000 point list without it consuming a HUGE portion of your points. 



> Obviously, using regular Bikes essentially forces you to use Wazzdakka though...


Oh god! Nooooo!
Please don't force me to use a character with vastly superior shooting capbility (and can shoot and turbo boost), who allows me to use one of the army's best, fastest, killiest units as troops! 

Sure, da Wazzer isnt as good in assault as a fully kitted warboss, and he costs a few points more (but not much more than a properly kitted biker boss), but the far superior shooting options (the guns on his bike have a very high strength, better range and ap and more shots than a normal set of dakkaguns, and if you want to nuke termies, you can switch to the kustom mega blaster)) and ability to take warbikes as troops make up for it.

Warbiker armies may not be as effective as boring green tide armies, but they're more effective than a single hugely overprixed point sink unit surrounded by whatever scraps you can scrape together with the rest of your points


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

:laugh: Personally, I love using Wazz. I think he's one of the best written characters, fluff to effect-wise. A lot of people, though, don't like Special Characters (get over it) and don't rate Wazz because, as you said, he's a little more expensive than he's worth. That said, I think you'll find the Dakkaguns still statistically better than a KMB at killing even Terminators. Now, if it were a Blast weapon...

I had forgotten that Nobz aren't Ld8 (somehow...:blush but even then, the ubiquitous Biker Boss still has a higher LD, and is a lot harder to remove than a Bike Mob's Nob. (Even though he DOESN'T get FnP )

Also, with a 4+ cover, it averages TWO Kraks to kill either :wink:

Also, Heavy Flamers often happen to fall out of Valkyries, or Chimeras, both of which can flame you from 23.5" inches away. Hard to avoid that...


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