# Droppod vs Rhinos?



## Eric.West (Sep 16, 2008)

So I've been trying to give my troops a bit more versatility, and the most important thing right now it seems is keeping them alive so by the end of the game they are still able to snag an objective.

Rhinos are great because you have tons of movement, a bit of armor for protection, you can move 12" and rapid fire 12" ect.

The best upgrade I can see for them is the extra armor, just to keep those treads rolling at all costs. But this brings the cost up to 45pts.

Now, I can throw them in a Droppod for 35pts, which by holding them in reserve keeps them protected a few turns, the internal guidance system lets me droppod them pretty much anywhere without breaking a sweat when rolling that scatter. You can drop and rapid fire which is kind of like the rhinos cruising speed + disembark rapid. 

You can drop past enemy lines or behind its main force, without having to try a mayday mission with a rhino which would more then likely get popped. But the thing that tops the cake I think is the deathwind launcher. Yes this brings it up to 55 pts which is 10 more than the rhino, but it gives you a 5" str 5 pieplate of doom. Allowing you to drop by an objective, (I'd try to drop more than 12" away if their are enemys there so I don't get assaulted the following turn) Then you can start dropping pieplates and shooting bolters at whoever is holding it. 

They can a) take down the pod if they have the STR, or advance towards my tac marine unit which would allow for an extra turn of shooting, and more than likely me getting the assault. 


So I'm mainly leaning towards pods at the moment, let me know if I'm missing something crucial about the rhinos! Right now I drop 2 dreadnoughts both armed with 2 heavy flamers each(1 each being twin-linked), if 1 is Ironclad, he has 13 AV but his heavy flamers aren't twin-linked. 

Adding the 3rd drop-pod for my tac marines, also makes this alot more effective. Now because of drop-pod assault, I can drop both dreads simultaneously on the first turn. So thats 4 flamer templates, 2 5" templates, all str 5, some twin linked. This I find creates alot of mayhem, and forces my opponent to focus on that oppose to maybe my thunderfire cannon or whirlwinds for the first few turns. 

Anyways I'm long past the rambling point, I'd appreciate as much insight as possible, because I may be purchasing another drop-pod today depending. :mrgreen:


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## CamTheApostle (Oct 31, 2008)

I miss the forge world rules for drop pods, where I had a chance to shoot the shit out of them before they landed. Die you over-pampered boy-scouts! Die!

Sorry, not helpful.

Well, I would suggest keeping your troops in rhinos while anything else you want in drop pods. The reason for this is simple: Objectives. If the game comes up objectives, it is much easier to have your troops sit on your objective the first turn then to have them scrabble to take it when you come in from reserve. Also, a Rhino makes a nice little pillbox.


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## Allos (Nov 5, 2007)

Well you also need to remember that half of the drop pods come in turn 1 from the Drop pod assault rule.


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## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

Eric.West said:


> So I've been trying to give my troops a bit more versatility, and the most important thing right now it seems is keeping them alive so by the end of the game they are still able to snag an objective.
> 
> Rhinos are great because you have tons of movement, a bit of armor for protection, you can move 12" and rapid fire 12" ect.
> 
> ...


Couple things you left out here. Pods cannot fire anything on the turn they come down, since any vehicle deep striking counts as moving at cruising speed. In addition, pods provide no LoS blocking capability, or protection from assault. Due to having to roll for them as well, they are unreliable except for the first wave. Why give up strong presence on the board for daemon-esque random deployment? Rhinos and razorbacks trump drop pods, hard IMO. Except for the podding ironclads. That is a good use of drop pods.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

drop-pods are the way to go. Being able to drop these things onto objectives and either hold them or contest them is amazing.

Also, if you can get hit when coming in, with enemies needing to be 1" away from you, you can almost force people off of the objective - Until they assault you (but hey, armour 13 is hard for most units to hurt).


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## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

Not armour 13, armour 12 open topped.


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

Crimzzen said:


> Also, if you can get hit when coming in, with enemies needing to be 1" away from you, you can almost force people off of the objective


Not sure if I'm reading this the way you intended, but if you drop your droppod on my squad _you_ move, not me.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

Podding dreds is a real good use IMO. I find dreds get popped too easily in the two or three turns it ussually takes them to lumber over the board.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

An SM player recently told me that Drop Pods can shoot on the turn they land, is that true? He also told me that they are not destroyed if they scatter into enemy units.


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## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

darklove said:


> An SM player recently told me that Drop Pods can shoot on the turn they land, is that true? He also told me that they are not destroyed if they scatter into enemy units.


No they can't shoot on the turn they land - they're not a "fast vehicle", and moved cruising speed on the turn that they deep struck.

Yes he is correct in saying that they are not destroyed if they scatter into enemy units. You just alter scatter the minimum amount you need to in order to not land on an enemy (remember that you don't get destroyed automatically by deep striking on impassable or enemy units anymore - you roll on the mishap table).


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I know about the misshap table, but to not even have to roll for it...

What about if they scatter off the table?


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

darklove said:


> What about if they scatter off the table?


They dont have protection against that, if the SM player is dumb enough or really wants to gamble with that, they follow the normal rules


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## Eric.West (Sep 16, 2008)

wow lol, thanks guys for such a fast response! alot of insight, much appreciated.

First thing tho.... :shok::ireful2::angry: I never realized that droppods couldn't fire first turn, I figured because units disembarking from them could, that they could as well. But, they are indeed not fast vehicles and therefor are subject to the moves at cruising speed weapon penalty. 

There goes 2 of my Ommfg first turn template assault. In 1500 pts I'd get within a close variation of this, switching it up a little depending.

Thunderfire Cannon - 4 Str 6 AP 5 3" Blasts
Whirlwind - 1 Str 5 AP 4 5" Large Blast
Vindicator - 1 Str 10 AP 2 5" Large Blast
Dreadnoughts - 4 Str 5 AP 4 Flame Templates(2 being twin-linked)
1 Tac Squad Plasma Cannon - 1 Str 7 AP 2 3"
2 Scout Squads - Heavybolter w/ Hellfire Rounds - 2 3" Blast wounds on 2+
Master of the Forge - 1 Str 8-10 AP 4-1(depending on range) 3" Blast
3 Scout Bikers - 6 Str 3 AP 6 3" Blasts

That's 14 small blasts, 2 large, 2 flame, horde armies beware :mrgreen:
I guess the other 2 str 5 5" large blasts will have to wait till turn 2. -_-


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

m3rr3k said:


> Not sure if I'm reading this the way you intended, but if you drop your droppod on my squad _you_ move, not me.



Sorry, that came out garbled, when I said "almost" I meant that because of the 1" buffer zone around enemy units, you can keep enemies away from your objective unless they plan on assaulting it... If they're assaulting it then they're not firing their guns at something more squishy.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Sitting a pod on an objective is a good way to at least contest it. The other guy now has to kill your pod. It isn't all that hard to do, but it is going to require him to send at least one unit to kill the thing, probably at a time when he would prefer not to have to. Occasionally it will even explode and do more damage.

Generally though, I think pods are for dreads to ride in, and maybe sternguard. Few other units really benefit. The drop pod assault rule that forces you to deploy pods on turn one can be bad news in some situations, especially dawn of war.


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## MasterKnives (Jan 21, 2009)

I agree that in most situations drop pods are best left for dreadnoughts and maybe one or two other specialty units.


Tac Marines are best left in rhinos (or if you combat squad them, razorbacks)


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## Marshal Balian (Apr 25, 2008)

I may be wrong, but if I am correct a Drop Pod may shoot on the first turn because it is using the power of the machine spirit to fire the weapon. I do not have my book with me right now but If memory serves I am correct.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

MaidenManiac said:


> They dont have protection against that, if the SM player is dumb enough or really wants to gamble with that, they follow the normal rules


Would you mind quoting where that rule is?

On pg.69, it states that you minimize the distance if you land in impassable terrain, how is the edge of the table NOT impassable. I think you are wrong in this case as if I can stop it from going into a unit or a giant rock in the middle of the board why does it make any sense that I can't stop it from going off the table (IE. Impassable Terrain)


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## Caddock (May 18, 2008)

Taggerung said:


> Would you mind quoting where that rule is?
> 
> On pg.69, it states that you minimize the distance if you land in impassable terrain, how is the edge of the table NOT impassable. I think you are wrong in this case as if I can stop it from going into a unit or a giant rock in the middle of the board why does it make any sense that I can't stop it from going off the table (IE. Impassable Terrain)


I would go with:

page 95 of the rulebook in the deep strike mishaps table it defines 4 times that a deepstriking unit can't be deployed and must roll on the mishap table; off the table, in impassable terrain or on friendlies, on/near enemies. 

the inertial guidance system rule only overrules 3 of those specifically; impassable and the 2 model options. As far as I can see going off the table means you roll on the table.


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## MasterKnives (Jan 21, 2009)

last I checked "non-existent" (off the table) and impassable terrain were different. 


I am pretty sure that drop pods will simply... cease to be if they land off the table.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Hmmm I missed the "off the table" part in the BRB, that just seems silly. O well I guess its good to know, stupid but good.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Taggerung said:


> Hmmm I missed the "off the table" part in the BRB, that just seems silly. O well I guess its good to know, stupid but good.


I dont think its silly, I belive its very intentional. 
If they were allowed to ignore "off the table" then SMs would DS their pods at the edge of the table and eliminate ½ of all scatter results: Since all arrows that points of the table even the slightest will leave them off the table you would seriously minimize the ammount of scattering results.
By allowing this a pod would scatter 1/3 of the time, roughly, since ½ of all the scattering is ignored(½ of 2/3 of the results) and the hit is 1/3. 
This sounds just a tad too good for the pods points imho:laugh:


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## Godstud (Jan 22, 2009)

Yeah scattering off the table means they are KAPUT! It's a GOOD rule since it would be, as stated, abused otherwise. That's really the only way they can be destroyed since landing on terrain is avoided by the Internal Guidance System.

Drop Pods are GREAT for capping objectives with a squad and even then it can dispute?(I can't think of the word right now) an objective.

Vanguard squads are GREAT in drop pods since they can assault the turn they land because of their Heroic Intervention ability.

For maximum oomph in a drop pod strikes use an odd number of drop pods since you round up when deciding how many drop in a turn. 3 drop pods: 2 can drop in the first turn.

Dreadnoughts in drop pods are great and can put some heavy firepower in a convenient location!

Rhinos have the advantage of Fire points which are overlooked sometimes. It can be quite stunning to have a Rhino move up and not only fire a storm bolter but maybe a plasma pistol(sgt) and a flamer(spec wpn guy). I've fired a LC out of a Rhino(it didn't move) and surprised a guy once.
They also provide cover.

Drop Pod> Rhino
Razorbacks>Rhino, but only slightly.

In my opinion... at this time. :grin:


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## Caddock (May 18, 2008)

Drop pods aren't kaput for scattering off the table. If they scatter off the table they have to roll on the mishap table. 1:3 chance of kaput. So marines aren't necessarily losing the unit even then.


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## Eric.West (Sep 16, 2008)

Drop podding sternguard sounds like a great idea against another mairne player or chaos, blast off some AP3 rapid fire.

But..vanguard? I don't have my codex handy but I beileve they can only take a droppod if they DIDNT take jumppacks. 

And..they can only heroic intervention if they the squad has jumppacks and arrive via deepstrike...

BUT.

You can drop pod assault a dreadnought 1st turn, equipt the drop pod with a teleport homer, and when your vanguard roll their reserve, hopefully 2nd turn, you can drop in without scattering and heroic intervention.

You must call your assault target before rolling scatter...thats why the teleport homer is a must for these guys. 

So you can assault in with 20+ attacks, 4 minimum will be from a power weapon(sergeant comes with a free one)

Also each can have melta bombs, not just the sergeant, so you can drop in, without rolling scatter dice, assault that turn, and have 4, 2d6+8 armor pen rolls on any vehicle. Your opponent more then likely didn't see it coming so the tank probably didn't move, so you hit automatically. Even on armor 14 your more than likely going to wreck or explode it.


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## DarkDragon (May 5, 2008)

I like rhinos because after getting out with your guys, you can use the rhino in later turns to tank shock guys or ram into other vehicles. Though droppods are nice and being able to get into the fight earlier is great, rhinos still hit the spot for me.


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## Fangio (Nov 23, 2008)

Eric.West said:


> But..vanguard? I don't have my codex handy but I beileve they can only take a droppod if they DIDNT take jumppacks.
> 
> And..they can only heroic intervention if they the squad has jumppacks and arrive via deepstrike...


You would be right on both counts. I refer thee to p.139 and p.62, respectively.

Why would ever remove their jump packs mind. You just waste points.


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## Godstud (Jan 22, 2009)

Yeah you can't take jump packs with any troops that use a Drop Pod. 
BUT, you can drop the pod where you want and the Vanguard can actually disembark and then assault, where a normal troop could not assault. They can use this even when they are disembarking from vehicles. I checked with a guy who is using this tactic at GW tournaments & it seems legit. He's extremely active in tournaments so he's a good info source too.

Drop pod might not be kaput on a scatter off the table, but do you really want to take that chance?


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## Eric.West (Sep 16, 2008)

Well about the vanguards packs, first off, your not wasting points "taking them off" because they don't come with them equipt in the first place. its 10 pts per model, which is very expensive, your paying FOR heroic intervention pretty much. 

Second, no...no vanguard cannot come out of a drop pop and assault, nor a vehicle, and your friend is cheating. 

PG 62. Of the Codex.

Heroic Intervention "...If a *JUMP PACK* equipped Vanguard Vet Squad arrives from *DEEP STRIKE*, the player can elect for a Heroic Intervention -..."

**edit Forgot to mention that in the pack where the points are listed, it clearly states if the squad does NOT have packs, then they can have a droppod. So thus it is impossible for this squad to heroic intervention out of a droppod or vehicle. 

This seems pretty clear to me, how your buddy got away with it at GW tournies is beyond me.


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## Hialmar (Feb 19, 2008)

The folks in our area who use drop pods insist that if the drop pods will scatter off board that this is counted as impassible terrain, since any other scatter basically does the same thing and then just move the drop pod to the closest point possible of actually landing, or in this case the table edge where they wanted them in the first place. 

This is aggravating but do not see anything in the rules that state this should be treated differently.


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## Estragon (Feb 25, 2008)

Hmmm. I think that if the 'guidance' rules specifically prevent them from landing on impassable terrain then they should do exactly that. Otherwise they're pretty much, no, scratch that, _absolutely_ guaranteed to land where you want. Too much: nothing in 40k should be guaranteed for goodness' sake. 
Also, predictably, I now find (on the first SM turn) a dreadnought with a melta lands next to the biggest tank I have. I just thank the Gods (all four of them ;-P) that my regular SM opponent hasn't put combi-meltas on his sternguard yet. I mean, come on....potentially 10 meltas from -no- distance. Or a heroic intervention......It just makes things too easy.


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