# Cheesiest 40k Army:



## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Throw a few reasons in if you wish, but it isn't mandatory


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

For me, it's Eldar. I won't go into too much detail right now, but I feel that the Eldar get a few too many exceptions to the normal rules of the game. The Wave Serpent's energy field, holo-fields on Falcons and Fire Prisms, psychic powers like Guide, Doom and Fortune plus some rather silly and cheap wargear items (like the Runes of Warding, currently being discussed in another thread). A few of their Special Characters seem too light on points to me as well, Eldrad and Prince Yriel being the ones that stand out most in my mind.


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## Wulfric_Nick (Oct 27, 2009)

I'm on the same thought wave as Katie Drake...
Eldar are way to OP'd for there cheap items and skilled units!


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Wulfric_Nick said:


> I'm on the same thought wave as Katie Drake...
> Eldar are way to OP'd for there cheap items and skilled units!


Im going to have to say...your both crazy, eldar Well the strongest army in the game (ONLY When played right mind you!) Are hardly a cheesy army. Just because you might have problems with them they are not easy to play. (Unless you have no clue how to blast t3 units and armor 12 transports.....ill admit i win lots of games because people have no clue what there doing):sarcastichand:

Also are ability's cost a lot of points........If you want cheese go Read the Guard Codex.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> Im going to have to say...your both crazy, eldar Well the strongest army in the game (ONLY When played right mind you!) Are hardly a cheesy army. Just because you might have problems with them they are not easy to play. (Unless you have no clue how to blast t3 units and armor 12 transports.....ill admit i win lots of games because people have no clue what there doing):sarcastichand:
> 
> Also are ability's cost a lot of points........If you want cheese go Read the Guard Codex.


Your armour 12 transport is a little bit more durable than normal armour 12....well a lot more durable. The fields make all above S8 as S8, no extra dice for penetration etc etc etc. The other one is cruddy, pick the lowest of two dice when penetrating? That makes killing it easy, must be lack of tactical skill on my behalf when I fired 9 lascannons at it for a whole game and it didn't die


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> Im going to have to say...your both crazy, eldar Well the strongest army in the game (ONLY When played right mind you!) Are hardly a cheesy army. Just because you might have problems with them they are not easy to play.


Never said that Eldar were easy to play. Point is though, it seems that once a person reaches a certain point as a player they become very difficult to defeat. I've personally lost to less skilled opponents that played Eldar as a direct result of some of the upgrades and abilities available to the army. The Wave Serpent's energy field being one and the psychic power _Doom_ being another.

What I want to point out though is that, at least for me, this isn't an exercise in whining about whatever army I can't beat. I personally plan to discuss the individual wargear items, units etc. that make the "cheesy" armies so powerful in order to decide if those units are really as powerful as I think.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

I was going to say Eldar too, but then Chaos Obliterators sprang to mind. CSM it is. The most overpowered pants-on-head retarded, cat-in-pants annoying things in the entire galaxy is clearly Obliterators. Besides, CSM have way too many means of getting into CQC way too fast for balance.

CSM is the equivalent of a failsafe kill button for Tau.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

CSM by far. The ability to bunch units is just ridiculous.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

There are plenty of armies with units that are perhaps a little unbalanced in some way, but nothing says cheese like lash of submission letting your opponent move your army around as they like and making first turn assaults very feasible. Nothing else lets you move your opponent's models with as much freedom. I think they did a better job with the similar version in the daemon codex.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

During 4th edition and during 5th edition's early days, Lash really _was_ broken. It's not quite so bad now though since most armies are moving closer and closer to the mechanized archetype, though. Then there's the newest anti-psychic abilities like the Rune Priest's ability to just cancel powers within 24" 50% of the time. All in all, Lash still has the capacity to be mean as hell, but people are wiser to it than before.


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## Bodyguard666 (Apr 14, 2008)

I have to say Space Wolves are kinda cheesy. Not most of the army, but primarily the Rune Priest.
I play using the pups. I played a 1k match that was me vs 500 nids and 500 Tau, using a sing FOC between em. The nid player had mostly Fexes, and 2 genie squads and the tau player had a broadside and commander with retinue. My priest, first shot he got, used JotWW and lined up 2 fexes and the broadside, killing them all on turn 1 or 2 (Cant remember which) which was a very large part of their army.

Even though I love him, Rune Priest=Cheesier than Cheeze-its


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I voted CSM, purley because all I seem to see in the competitive arena of them is lash and nothing else. Though I will say DE can be very cheesy with all 6 troop choices being raider squads all HS being rav's and having 2 ELITE squads and 1 HQ in raiders that's a total of 18 Dark Lances that come standard gear on the vehicles plus the 6 short range ones that come in the raider squads troops options. A total of 24 Anti tank weapons


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## Syko515 (Jan 22, 2008)

my vote is 100% for the Eldar, as for my reasonings? see Katie Drakes first post, as she has said all that needs to be said.


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## Andizzo (Feb 9, 2008)

CSM, if you want a cheese pizza order up some dual lash/plague marines oh and sum obliterators for the cheesy crust


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## Ryuzaki (Nov 1, 2009)

Chaos marines, mostly for lash. Seriously, you could write a whole book of cheesy ways to use it.


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## bakoren (Nov 16, 2009)

As much as oblits tear my carnifex in two, and as much as the Defiler corners my Genestealers and tears them apart, My vote is for Eldar.

There is a stratogy I have seen too much of. Basically nothing happens, The eldar player DS his entire force with jetbikes, shoots off whoever is standing on the point, and wins.


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## Arkanor (Jan 1, 2010)

bakoren said:


> As much as oblits tear my carnifex in two, and as much as the Defiler corners my Genestealers and tears them apart, My vote is for Eldar.
> 
> There is a stratogy I have seen too much of. Basically nothing happens, The eldar player DS his entire force with jetbikes, shoots off whoever is standing on the point, and wins.


Jetbikes can't deepstrike, do you just mean reserve?


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

I agree that lash prince oblit spam is cheesy, but I also think that's the end of the cheesiness mostly for CSM, I think eldar just keep on going with a 100 different flavours of cheesiness.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Wow, CSM are not the major GT winners I heard, cant be all that bad. As for Cheesy I think Jetbike Seer Councils are Cheesiest Build Ever. It nearly impossible to kill with Fortune, casts Doom left and right, kills Mechs with ease, can move anywhere on the board with ease, and add in Runes of Warding for those suppose super Cheesy lash lists. Now theres a Cheesy Army Build.


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## Rye (Sep 22, 2009)

Spess Puppehs. Seriously, they _hate_ Psykers, but end up with some of the very best? And Long Fangs are the only units in the game which can divvy up their fire between enemy units! Friggin' Founding Chapters, always competing to be more special than anyone else.

As for cheesiness, some of the Guard codex is a bit strange. The Deathstrike missile came out of nowhere, and it's not even that great of a weapon. Vendettas, while unarguably awesome, are a tad too powerful.


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## Devinstater (Dec 9, 2008)

I voted Tau. 

Not because Tau are cheesy, rather their playstyle is aggravating as hell to play against. Jet packs to backup/move behind cover, ignoring cover saves via markerlights on twinlinked str 10 platform and hardly ever getting armour saves on anything other than their troop choices. (At least it feels like you never get to roll). Oh, and their worth while tanks will have a 4+ cover save sitting in the open.


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

Yeah, just to be different, I voted Guard, on foot, but also their mechanized stuff as well. Just for the fact that you can have 150 lasgun shots a turn, 15 lascannons and that is just with 5 infantry squad and 5 heavy weapons squad and a platoon command squad. On top of that, you ca include (basically) without number guardsmen, veteran teams. And that is just your troops choice :grin: And as they are cheap as peanuts, so you can have quite a few of them  Ergo, they are cheesy, because for cheaper then devastators, you can out fire them with troops. I think that makes them very *very VERY* cheesy:laugh:


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## Arkanor (Jan 1, 2010)

Devinstater said:


> I voted Tau.
> 
> Not because Tau are cheesy, rather their playstyle is aggravating as hell to play against. Jet packs to backup/move behind cover, ignoring cover saves via markerlights on twinlinked str 10 platform and hardly ever getting armour saves on anything other than their troop choices. (At least it feels like you never get to roll). Oh, and their worth while tanks will have a 4+ cover save sitting in the open.



I think I'd have to agree, they probably aren't the cheesiest _army_, but they're where I've seen the cheesiest tactics.

-Basically free cover save for tanks
-Multimode railgun is the best gun ever
-Ability to ignore cover saves (although markerlights in great number get expensive)
-JSJ battlesuits
-Huge kroot line, I've seen one piled in a forest and then less than half of it stretched out in a line at maximum coherency distance, granting cover saves and charge immunity. All having gone to ground with 2+ cover saves :/


I was also watching SM trying to out-shoot them, which doesn't really end well.


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## Bodyguard666 (Apr 14, 2008)

Rye said:


> Spess Puppehs. Seriously, they _hate_ Psykers, but end up with some of the very best?


I'm pretty sure that the wolves don't hate psykers. In fact, I believe that they greatly respect psykers, as they believe that they are in tune with nature enough to control it. Although, I do see how Blood Claws would be skeptical of them.


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

I'm going with Space Wolves, for these reasons:

1) The Rune Priest is a bit powerful, Jaws of the World Wolf and Living Lightning coming to mind. These are both free, and can easily kill or finish off whole monstrous creatures.

2) The ungodly amount of plasma in the army. I thought Chaos had ungodly amounts of plasma, but when I saw the new Space Wolves Codex, I immediately knew that the title had been taken. For example:

*10 Grey Hunters*: 2 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Power Fist - 200 pts

Considering what 200 pts would get in a standard Space Marine army, the Space Wolves are just better.

3) The insane Characters. Yes, they are very expensive, but with the moderate price of everything else you should be able to afford the benefits. Canis Wolfborn is especially awesome.

4) Long Fangs have a convenient pack size; 6 is the exact amount that can fit snugly into a Razorback, just to add that 6th Lascannon. With this set-up, 2 Lascannons fire at one tank , 3 at another, and a Twin-Linked Lascannon fires at yet another target. All for just 290 pts, which in a normal Space Marine army gets you a 10-man Devastator Squad with 4 Lascannons.

5) The amazingly simple-yet-effective tactics. Think about it - with an army this badass and tough, all you need to do is charge forward and the chances are you'll win. Even against Tyranids, you can have your support behind you (Predators and Whirlwinds), stand and shoot, then at the last second charge, and in close combat you win. This is what you'd normally do? Well, I'd like to see the results when a Tactical Squad shoots (from a distance) then charges a Carnifex (all by itself, including shooting) and comes out winning. With a Grey Hunters pack you'd have a guy with Rending and a Power Fist, plus a Plasma Pistol, and you might have got off a few shots with Plasma Guns before hand. This pretty much evens out the odds, whereas a Tactical Squad would need one seriously awesome Sergeant.

While I'm not saying that Space Wolves need no skill, they certainly don't need much (no digs here, I'm starting Space Wolves soon anyway).

And that's why Space Wolves are now cheesy (sorry for the long post).


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## HelbrechtBT (Oct 28, 2008)

I am gonna have to say orks. Mainly because ofthe ungodly amounts of nob bikers that they bring to the table. But that may just be the people that i play with =p.


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## candykane (Apr 28, 2010)

OMg this sould be updated the new blood angel codex is just cheese
blood talons , dreads with wings , units that deepstrike only scater a D6 and shoot and can charge al in 1 turn. descend from cheese is more like it. a licktor thats on the board the entire game and does not deep strike but just shows up can charge but there guys get an assault fase. 

But king cheese are the Space wolfs so I vote for SW there rune priest is bad. and they can take 2 of them. both with Jaws of the World Wolf. 2 rino's 2 priest in the rino's they can deflect any incoming fire and shoot from the rino ;S 

then they have uber caracters and other gear that is not kosher. light there improves lightning claws FTW


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Bodyguard666 said:


> I'm pretty sure that the wolves don't hate psykers. In fact, I believe that they greatly respect psykers, as they believe that they are in tune with nature enough to control it. Although, I do see how Blood Claws would be skeptical of them.


Yeah and they got along with the Thousand Sons pretty well too I recall.  They respect their own psykers because they have some ridiculous myth about them that nobody believes except for the space puppies, and they instantly leap at the throat of any psyker they come across. Just so you know.

But to be on topic, I can't believe CSM have the top score. I was thinking that the SPESS MUHREENs, their various chapters (BA, SW) and the Eldar are going to have the most votes. Seriously guys, our Codex has 3 useful things: Lash Princes, Berzerkers, and Oblits. I wouldn't call Oblits cheesy, they can be instakilled with one S8+ AP2- shot/hit, or the usual crapload of normal shots and hits (i.e. Lootas or Boyz). Zerkers are great but definately not cheesy. DPs can easily be brought down (at least none of the decent players I play with have too much trouble killing them), so while Lash is indeed a ridiculous spell (but then again, so is JotWW) there are numerous ways to circumvent it, Shadow in the Warp and mechanised lists being the first two things that come to mind. If you can't deal with Lash then you really need to learn to play.

My vote goes to the Mech IG, they're a tough nut to crack and even then the sheer volume of high S weapons will eat any army in time, a race not every army has the same chance of winning. I can't remember if I ever won a serious match against the friend of mine who plays Mech IG.


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

I would vote DE the way I've seen them played in contests.

Turn 1: Pile all your guys into raiders. Zoom across the field and fire, staying just out of counter-charge range. Blow up the pricey tanks with a wall of dark lance shots, and make sure to destroy jump infantry with massed splinter rifle fire.

Turn 2: Since no one could reach you last turn, get into combat with incubi, HQ's, and whatever else is lying around. Have the tanks keep popping IC's or remaining vehicles.

Turn 3: Win.

I'm not saying it's impossible to beat, but it's very swift, very brutal, and eats mech-heavy armies for breakfast. I'm so glad I started playing DE instead of fighting against them.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

My pick has to be orks. It's likely the most diverse and functional army in the game right now, and has many cheesy options:

-Nob bikers, still the best unit in the game pound for pound.

-Deffkoptas doing turbo suicide runs to kill transports and sensitive target on turn 1. 

-Battlewagon Spam. 

-KFF+Battlewagon cheese.

Space Marines have some heady cheese as well, especially once you add Vulkan Hes'tan to the army. How do you like my deep-striking Land Speeders with twin-linked multimeta? Assault termies with TH+SS is also quite gouda.

As for CSM and Lash, it does reek of parmesan but it increasingly moot. Tyranids, SM and Eldar all have very reliable anti-psyker measures, and the current metagame of everything having its own vehicle also messes it up bad. Odds are the Lashing psyker will have been flattened by a demolisher cannon or loota dakkastorm.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

You forgot to mention the Deffrollas. :laugh: Truth to be told, I'd rather play against Orks than any 5th ed army, because even if they run my ass over I can laugh about it. I've yet to find humour in that ever since my SW friend learned to play with his army again I can't get to his Long Fangs because I'm shot and cut down halfway there.


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

Orks can actually be a lot of fun to lose against. There was a "Halt the Tide" event at my FLGS where the ork players (led by yours truly :mrgreen mobbed the board using the rules for Green Tides from Apoc. Everyone got 1000pts worth of minis and tried to kill as many orks as possible in 4 turns. Even though you couldn't win, everyone had a great time.

Actually, orks are fun to lose or win with. ~Runs off to play a game with gretchins~


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

Khorothis said:


> You forgot to mention the Deffrollas. :laugh:


Ah yes, true enough. Letting the Nob with a power claw attack your vehicles with a borading plank wasn't enough, they had to add d6 S10 attacks to make even Monoliths quiver.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Sephyr said:


> Ah yes, true enough. Letting the Nob with a power claw attack your vehicles with a borading plank wasn't enough, they had to add d6 S10 attacks to make even Monoliths quiver.


And Death or Glory attempts all the manlier. :grin: One of my Daemon Princes succeeded in penetrating the front armour but got a Weapon Destroyed result...  It was one of the few occasions when I didn't mind loosing my DP, for he tried and almost succeeded.


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## LordofFenris (Mar 10, 2010)

Hmm...I would have to say its tied.....Space Wolves and Blood Angels. I know I know, "but you play the Space Wolves" doesn't mean I don't think they are cheese. Aside from their overpriced Terminators, they are pretty solid. I play them because I like them, but I do rarely lose when I use them. Rune priests and Thunderwolf Calvary are pretty crazy too.

Blood Angels.....well they're just too easy to point out.....(Deep Strike a LR? Really?)


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I think many armies have a cheese element in them but Eldar probably have the easiest army to customise against specific threats.
Against MEQ or mobile 32 firedragons with meltas in vehicles will take out most threats especially as you can tailor their vehicles to cover their weaknesses.
Against hordes a few bladestorms sort the men from the boys and thats not even mentioning the generic cheese that shafts all armies equally like the seer council on bikes etc.
The only saving grace for Eldar is that it's a lot harder to take a balanced all comers list if you don't know what your facing as the Eldar units are so specialised.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Wolves. By far wolves. Lol


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

I just voted Space Wolves cause they are the Cheese Kings... 

But please can I ask why oh why, are Chaos Space Marines are nearly tying for 1st? Since they aren't that cheesy to be fair, Space Wolves are cheesier...


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

It depends on how you define "Cheesy".

Overpowered?

Irritating to play against?

Counter-Fluff?


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## buckythefly (Mar 16, 2009)

Well, I have to say, either the Eldar or the CSM, They both have a ton of ways to be giant dicks and ruin my good time. (Not because they win, just because they deny me the satisfaction of killing them) But I gotta go for eldar.

I don't mind a little cheese, but spending 6 turns chasing eldar tanks around the board with my battle wagons isn't my idea of a worthwhile game. I used the heresy combat calculator and came up with I have a 0.110 chance of cracking one of their tanks to a worthwhile result with a boarding plank nob.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

buckythefly said:


> Well, I have to say, either the Eldar or the CSM, They both have a ton of ways to be giant dicks and ruin my good time. (Not because they win, just because they deny me the satisfaction of killing them) But I gotta go for eldar.
> 
> I don't mind a little cheese, but spending 6 turns chasing eldar tanks around the board with my battle wagons isn't my idea of a worthwhile game. I used the heresy combat calculator and came up with I have a 0.110 chance of cracking one of their tanks to a worthwhile result with a boarding plank nob.


I voted Eldar too (mind you it was back when this thread was new), but I think the biggest problem in this particular situation is that power klaw attacks probably aren't the best way to deal with Eldar vehicles. Against Tau it'd make more sense since their vehicles typically have better armor (aside from the Devilfish, that is) and can get cover saves with extreme ease, but against Eldar just pummel their vehicles with rokkits. Deffkoptas and Warbuggies are two places that one can very affordably put rokkit launchas (with the added benefit of being twin-linked!). Even Trukks can take rokkits for a very modest number of points. Other than rokkits, Lootas have weapons that are extremely good at dealing with Eldar transports.

Hope this is a bit helpful!

Katie D


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

buckythefly said:


> I don't mind a little cheese, but spending 6 turns chasing eldar tanks around the board with my battle wagons isn't my idea of a worthwhile game. I used the heresy combat calculator and came up with I have a 0.110 chance of cracking one of their tanks to a worthwhile result with a boarding plank nob.


Any Eldar player with a brain will not even let you get into melee range of his non-immobilised tanks, with anything. Ever. Apart from _maybe_ Deffcopters.

While shooting at you with all the other tanks you're NOT chasing, obviously. :biggrin:


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