# What is the worst unit in the game?



## Beaky (Dec 15, 2006)

Which unit do you think is the absolute bottom of the pile? The most useless, underachieving waste of space in an army.

I'm banging my vote on Rrepentia.

Slow moving, T3, 4+ save plus they only have one attack!


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Guardians


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## blkdymnd (Jan 1, 2007)

Repentia are slow moving but get the rage extra fleet movement. I can't agree with Guardians either, my vote would go to a grot as a stand alone, as any troop used right is useful


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## Knight of ne (Dec 31, 2006)

vespid!


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## blkdymnd (Jan 1, 2007)

oh, yeah... good call, forgot all about the worthless vespids


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I'm going to have to go with Traitor Guardsmen in a Lost and the Damned army. They're completely worthless, and run at the first sign of trouble. The only reason people take them is so they can have a Leman Russ in the army.


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## Necrontyr (Dec 27, 2006)

Gonna have to throw a vote in for Necron Pariahs... they may look good on paper, but with the rest of the army they really don't hold up to what they are supposed to be.


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## Antioch (Dec 27, 2006)

I'm going to go with Guardians. I hate them. I hate them so much. Totally unfluffy to Eldar.


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## FrozenOrb (Dec 23, 2006)

A Predator Destructor Looted Vehicle.

I know it's 0-1 and taken for fun, but where's the logic in this being the same cost, and yet BS2 and has a chance of breaking down. It would have been nice if they'd taken the time to calculate the individual costs.



Antioch said:


> I'm going to go with Guardians. ... Totally unfluffy to Eldar.


Er I avoid much of Eldar fluff because I find it fairly yawn but could you explain please? My thinking was all Eldar are essentially Guardians, just some of them specialise more.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

Tyranid Biovores. Totally useless.


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## slaanesh's tears (Dec 28, 2006)

chaos cultists & tratior guard


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## Ragnar_Burmane (Dec 15, 2006)

Space Wolf Iron Priest and oh so useless Servitor Bodyguard


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## Skcuzzlebumm (Dec 21, 2006)

inq lords and thier obligitory retiune.

They can't hids as they are always a unit! They are overpriced and shit! Sorry gotta be the worst around, and it takes up a HQ slot! Bugger that.


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

Can't believe this one's not been mentioned already, surely It's got to be scouts with shotguns!


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## Phazael (Dec 21, 2006)

Repentia, Biovores, and guardians? You guys are crazy. Those are actually good units, when used correctly. The guys who said Necron Pariahs and Iron Priest retinue are on the right track. What you really are talking about here are units that are so useless that no list setup could ever remotely take advantage of them. That would be things like Long Fangs, Stikbomb Boyz, Ork Dreadnaughts (three Kans cost less than one of these wtf?), Gargoyles, SM Attack Bikes, DE Grotesques, Wraithguard, Etherials, or Ogryn.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

LongBeard said:


> Can't believe this one's not been mentioned already, surely It's got to be scouts with shotguns!


Kurt Kobain wouldn't agree


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## TwistedDarkness (Jan 1, 2007)

Take the ork codex. Ignoring sluggaz, everything in there.


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## FrozenOrb (Dec 23, 2006)

Phazael said:


> Repentia, Biovores, and guardians? You guys are crazy. Those are actually good units, when used correctly. The guys who said Necron Pariahs and Iron Priest retinue are on the right track. What you really are talking about here are units that are so useless that no list setup could ever remotely take advantage of them. That would be things like Long Fangs, Stikbomb Boyz, Ork Dreadnaughts (three Kans cost less than one of these wtf?), Gargoyles, SM Attack Bikes, DE Grotesques, Wraithguard, Etherials, or Ogryn.


I was going to add Grotesques (the non-uber kind) but went for a looted Destructor instead, but dude your list is a little extreme.



TwistedDarkness said:


> Take the ork codex. Ignoring sluggaz, everything in there.


As is yours. :roll:


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

> Take the ork codex. Ignoring sluggaz, everything in there.


UK GT Heat3 2nd place.
It can be done!


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Overpriced, Under-ranged can't WBB and yet shot so quickly coz every one thinks their scary Its got to be Necron Pariahs.

Chaos Cultists rock, when you have enough and give them meltabombs, Armoured formation I laughed so much I had to change Underwear!


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## blkdymnd (Jan 1, 2007)

Definatley not grotesques, I had a great list with them and a Haemonculi coven. They can be used very well


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## FrozenOrb (Dec 23, 2006)

blkdymnd said:


> Definatley not grotesques, I had a great list with them and a Haemonculi coven. They can be used very well


I just recently purchased 8 unpainted from eBay since they were going for a steal and haven't seen much of them in lists or battles so I'd very much be interested in a list, your thoughts and stratagems.


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## blkdymnd (Jan 1, 2007)

It was a while ago, but revolved around a whole Haemonculi coven. 6 Haemonculi, 30 Grotesques, 3 Talos, lots of Warriors. Support Warriors and some raiders started on the board. A Haemonculi was on a raider with the WWP, once the portal was dropped the Grotesques led by the other Haemonculi, the Talos, and the rest would use the advance positioning to do thier handi-work. Thats a really rough outline of how i did the list as it was a couple years ago. It was a whole lot of fun and a Dark Eldar list I would definatley do again some day.


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

I agree with Phazael.

guardians have amazing potential, yet noone bothers to look for it.

I'd say DE Grotesques. As a DE master, i can safely say they are CRAP.


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## Skcuzzlebumm (Dec 21, 2006)

> gargoyles


What? You do realise that gargoyles are probably the best guant choice in the nid dex. They are more effective that HG's and better than all other guants. If i had the patience to build 54 of them then you would never see my HG's again.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

> What? You do realise that gargoyles are probably the best guant choice in the nid dex. They are more effective that HG's and better than all other guants. If i had the patience to build 54 of them then you would never see my HG's again.


There's also the mild issue of buying 54 metal models. I agree though, they are pretty good.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Skcuzzlebumm said:


> inq lords and thier obligitory retiune.
> 
> They can't hids as they are always a unit! They are overpriced and shit! Sorry gotta be the worst around, and it takes up a HQ slot! Bugger that.


Depends. WH or DH?

DH inquisitors and retnue rock mightily if you do them up as Metalstorm. Cheap effective, semi-mobile heavy bolter dev squad for peanuts. And the lord has enough bodies in his retinue to throw in a mess of ablative wounds without sacrificing firepower. Elite version is cheaper, but if you want a cheap majority save to soak up wounds you;ll need to drop one of the HB servies

Plus, where else can you get two Ld 10 psychic hoods that can both be used to block the same power? (Read the rules carefully, it says that only one LIBRARIAN may use a hood to block a single power, but inquisitors are not librarians and thus may gang up)

Vespids become very useful in cityfight where their speed and ability to reroll dangerous terrain checks become gold, and the short range on their AP3 guns becomes less of an issue. Especially if you support them with other squads to finish off whatever they don;t kill. The thing bout Tau in partcular is that you need combined arms to make them shine.

That said, the Tau Aun is pretty goddamned worthless, as is their Space Pope (forgot his name. Aun spechal character but without the swanky BS4 bodyguard that lamost makes an Aun worthwhile)

For Blood Angels, the Veteran Squad is pretty pathetic (We don;t get to use special skills, so you;re giving up an elite slit and 3 points per model just for the honor of spending more points on different weapon options)

Captain Tycho's pretty lame these days too. He was best in 2nd ed when combi-weapons worked differently.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Plus, where else can you get two Ld 10 psychic hoods that can both be used to block the same power? (Read the rules carefully, it says that only one LIBRARIAN may use a hood to block a single power, but inquisitors are not librarians and thus may gang up) 

LOL, if u tried to get away with that then my arguement would be that the inquistor cant use it at all because hes not a librarian.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Ah, but therein lies the beauty. The psychic hood in the DH codex says it allows a Daemonhunter to use it to blah, blah, blah and doesn;t even include the 'only one librarian...' prohibition


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Does anyone you play really let you get away with that?


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I've yet to actually try it, been too busy wiht blood angels and Tau to develop more than an acedemic interest in the inquisition (been toyng with thowing in an allied inquisitor though)

But most people I play with tend to go with the RAW because as soon as you start questioning rules that don;t make sense you end up rewriting the whole system. 

Besides, think of it this way: The Librarian is a battlefield psyker, first and foremost. He;s trained to fight normal people and use his powers to devastating effect. The hood is more like icing on the cake for them.

Meanwhile inquisitors are trained speciffically in how to block and negate the sorcerous powers of their hated enemy. They might not even have any powers besides the use of the hood. It stands to reason that they would be better at takign apart the powers of their enemies since that's their main role. (Especially WH whose hoods are worded the same way)

It's like complaining that assault troops get more attacks in melee. That's what they;re trained for.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

Got to put my vote in for Sisters Repentia:

1) They are way overpriced for a T 3 Save 4+ model- double a Storm Trooper for those that don't know. And they're naked- so the 4+ makes no sense.

2) For this cost, they each get to strike last with 1 attack- 2 if somehow they got the charge. So even in a best case scenario where you've got them into range- they will be killed before they swing.

3) They can never take a transport- no matter how creative you get with the rules. So aren't ever likely to get close enough before being gunned down, and never get the charge.

4) Can't use Faith- so can't negate the poor save (by making it Invulnerable) and stick in the fight. It's a bit like Pariahs in a Necron army.

5) Holy Rage may seem an advantage- but in many cases it means you can't control them. It means you wanted to keep that very expensive one-shot wonder just behind a Rhino, or forest- but instead they've decided to run out in front of a gunline.

6) Elites- there are better things- namely Celestians and Callidus.


Many of the others that have been mentioned, IMO, may not be the best in their army but do have some use. Even Vespid can fry SM's and move about fast- though of course, they're still rubbish.

But Repentia? What can they do? 

Charge Guardsmen/Gaunts/Guardians- well done, your Battle Sisters could do the same for less point. And your still likely to lose Repentia before they swing.

Charge SM's/Chaos/Necrons- again, likely to lose them all before they swing.

Charge Monstrous Creatures, Dreadnoughts, IC's- your best bet, but still- it's not gonna happen.


My solution- make them 10-12 pts instead of 20, Mistress- 15pts. They are already an Elites fighting against better Elites for choices, and are 0-1- they don't need any more nerfing.
Drop the save to 6+ or none, but give them Feel No Pain.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I am glad to see no one mention Guardsmen, it fills me with joy.

For me the worst unit in the games has to be the Emperors Champion, why?, well he has one of the best swords in the game (which only the great Dark Angels can rival) which is wasted on the fact he can at most only get 4 attacks 

a Fantastic set of armour, which would be better on a higher wound model

His Slayer of Champions rule is easy to counter

In fact the only good stuff is his Vows


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Plus you HAVE to take him, if I recall.

As for guardsmen...they have tons of weak, cheap little units, but point for point, they;re all pretty decent

I will say the S&M Commandos (Repentia) do suck quite blowfully

I'll be the first to say it: I've always thought Grey Knights kinda sucked. I mean, they;re expensive as hell, no real options and they come with a free power boost for demons.

No thanks. My DH lists will feature allied marines, thank you.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

Phazael said:


> Repentia, Biovores, and guardians? You guys are crazy. Those are actually good units, when used correctly. The guys who said Necron Pariahs and Iron Priest retinue are on the right track. What you really are talking about here are units that are so useless that no list setup could ever remotely take advantage of them. That would be things like Long Fangs, Stikbomb Boyz, Ork Dreadnaughts (three Kans cost less than one of these wtf?), Gargoyles, SM Attack Bikes, DE Grotesques, Wraithguard, Etherials, or Ogryn.


Ummm...Wraithguard rock, I have an Iyanden army and these guys usually shoot down a lot of stuff. Hell, they are the only model in the game that can walk up to a Necron Monolith and take it down in one shot.

Biovores aer useless because they have to target teh same thing and have a hard time cracking armor. What's the point of a guess range weapon designed for armor (bio acid spore mine) if it cannot hurt armor?


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Galahad said:


> I've yet to actually try it, been too busy wiht blood angels and Tau to develop more than an acedemic interest in the inquisition (been toyng with thowing in an allied inquisitor though)


Is that allowed in the GT? I've been looking into that for an all Infantry, Calidus Assassain and Inq Lord Blood Angels list for the finals or next year.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

As far as I know, allies aren't allowed in GT (It's a ripoff, I know. THey printed the damned rules, but thye;'re not good enough for their tourneys?) The GT rules say, basically, that you;re only allowed the relevant codex for your army (or codicies in the case of sM chapters)

I think you could play an inquisitoon core army with allied (codex) marines or indentured guard since they're actually part of the inquisiton FOC, but not the other way around.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

Techpriests. Iv never seen them used in any imperial army. who has actually used one?? Whos played against one??? I rest my case..


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

Space marine bikes, they're really expensive in points and I've never seen anyone use them.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

techpriests are great cccp-one. If they were HQ rather than elite i reckon you would see more. If i played marines youd have to face one im sure, in fact i've been considering converting one on a bike for a while now. Adding the scions of mars trait would make it worthwhile, but i suppose the traits are useful for other stuff


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## FrozenOrb (Dec 23, 2006)

Does CCCP not mean the Guard Techpriest whilst you're discussing Techmarines Jigplum?


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

Repentia are awesome. You are not supposed to take them by themselves. That's why they appear in the codex right after Arco Flagellents.

You take a unit of arco flagellents and run the repentia behind them. Your opponent has to choose between shooting one unit or the other. You can top this off with running 3 penitent engines in front of the Arco Flagellents. It makes a nice close combat wave that cannot be ignored.


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## FrozenOrb (Dec 23, 2006)

Lord Sinkoran said:


> Space marine bikes, they're really expensive in points and I've never seen anyone use them.


It doesn't make them the worst unit in 40k though does it? It just means people favour Assault Marines and/or Landspeeders for their fast choices.


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## Spam-Robot (Dec 21, 2006)

Dark eldar scourges or hellions. Grotesques are allright.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

> You take a unit of arco flagellents and run the repentia behind them. Your opponent has to choose between shooting one unit or the other. You can top this off with running 3 penitent engines in front of the Arco Flagellents. It makes a nice close combat wave that cannot be ignored.


Your joking? Right?

Is this before or after you proverbially bend over and prepare the lube for your opponent.

Most opponent's won't need to choose- they will have enough firepower to gut both units, and/or enough mobility to stay out of their way.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

FrozenOrb said:


> Lord Sinkoran said:
> 
> 
> > Space marine bikes, they're really expensive in points and I've never seen anyone use them.
> ...


It certainly makes them the worst fast attack choice. And if you want to go by the amount of punch vs the amount of points, they are very low on the scale. Khorne and orks know how to do bikes. Marines, not so much.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

Galahad said:


> FrozenOrb said:
> 
> 
> > Lord Sinkoran said:
> ...


well said


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## smiley (Dec 31, 2006)

omfg its got to be a spine gaunt (kills 1 guy for the cost of 30 of your own)


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

It's got to be a Rhino for me! Just can't use them and if my opponent has them I feel as if I've got an unfair advantage.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

The question is are we trying to find the worst unit in the game, or the worst unit in the SM Codex?

Because even the suck-iest Shotgun Scout or Bike in the SM army stands head and shoulders above many of the non-SM nominees- such as Repentia.

They still have ATSKNF, they're still T 4, 3+ (ok, Scouts aren't). They still have 4's across the board- WS, BS, S, I.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

the spinegaunt is by no means the worst unit in the game. each one costs 6 points i think, and they serve their purpose well. actually for their pionts i think theyre a better unit than basic guardsmen.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

How about a grot?


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## FrozenOrb (Dec 23, 2006)

Lord Sinkoran said:


> How about a grot?


It's the worst unit in 40k for what they cost in comparison to how effective they are. In that respect Grots are fine.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Jeridian said:


> The question is are we trying to find the worst unit in the game, or the worst unit in the SM Codex?
> 
> Because even the suck-iest Shotgun Scout or Bike in the SM army stands head and shoulders above many of the non-SM nominees- such as Repentia.
> 
> They still have ATSKNF, they're still T 4, 3+ (ok, Scouts aren't). They still have 4's across the board- WS, BS, S, I.


Yes, but it's a matter of whether or not it;s worth the points. If I pay 30 points for a biker, and it isn't as good as a unit that costs another guy 20 points, then that unit sucks hard.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

Yes, and if we're restricted to just the Space Marine Codex, then your right- Bikes blow compared to alternate options. It is one of the worst units in the SM Codex.

But frankly, the worst units in the SM Codex are still powerful when compared to some units in different Codex's.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

You're missing my point.

You can say that a character with all 10s for stats, and 5 wounds is awesome, but if he costs a thousand points then he sucks.

"But with those stats, he's better than anything!"
Yeah, except for a thousand points of almost anything else.

A SM biker costs 32 points. He;s got good stats, but us he more than twice as good as a marine? Is he four times better than a guardsman?

A decently equipped biker squad costs as much or more than a Land Raider

I'm sure 260 points of grots could take down 5 bikers and an attack bike. ;-)


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

> You're missing my point.


Ditto.

As bad as a SM Bike seems to be, it is not IMO the 'worst unit in the game'.

It may be the worst unit in the SM Codex.

I just don't buy that the SM Bike (or anything from the SM Codex) can be the worst unit in the game when we have Repentia, Pariahs, Penitent Engines, much of the Ork Codex, etc to choose from.


To make an analogy like yours.

It's like saying, we have a choice of a Garand or an AK-47, someone else has a rock to throw. Clearly the Garand is the worst choice...


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

It depends. 
If we're *buying* the guns and someone charged $100 for the use of one man with a gun, and a dollar apice for a hundred men with nice heavy rocks, I'd rather be on the side with $100 worth of rocks.

It doesn;t matter how good the individual stats are, if the unit is grossly overpriced.

I'm not saying the bikers are nessecarily the worst unit ever. I'm just saying you can;t handwave and say no marine could ever be on the list of the worst units ever just because they have good stats.

Bikers and shotgun scouts may not be the worst units ever, but they certainly deserve to be on the list


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

And if someone was being charged $100 for one man with a rock- who is worst.



> I'm not saying the bikers are nessecarily the worst unit ever.


Isn't that the point of this thread?



> I'm just saying you can;t handwave and say no marine could ever be on the list of the worst units ever just because they have good stats.


Good stats? What else do you want? I have Marines, and have at some point used everything in the list- even Techmarines and Shotgun Scouts. They flop miserably as expected- but they still have a small use, still put up a fight. 40k is Marine centric (and in this I include Chaos)- other armies would kill for some of their worst units.

But stuff like Pariahs and Repentia- I wouldn't even touch. 

For example, Repentia are 20pts each for a T3 Save 4+ Ld 6 sister on foot with a Str 6 two-handed power fist and 1 Attack. They can never be transported, and will run out of cover straight in front of the enemy on a roll of 1-2. They also take up an Elites choice. The worst part is- they are such a cool friggin concept, such a shame.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

My point is that good stats don't make up for being horribly overpriced. Most armies *wouldn't* take bikers because for the insane points cost they could buy a couple dozen models that are actually good at what they do.

As for the point of the thread, someone else mentioned bikes. All I did was agree that they sucked and for some reason argue with you over the fact that just because something has good stats doesn;t make it a good unit.

I already cast my vote on the worst unit.


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## HavenDan (Jan 6, 2007)

Shoota Boyz... a guy with a long range weapon with BS2... 'nuff said


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

Tau ethereal?

If you field less than a huge number of fire warriors they are simply a fifty point head start for your opponent.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Yes, the Aun is a big block of suck.
And our special character one is even worse.


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## Antioch (Dec 27, 2006)

FrozenOrb said:


> Antioch said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to go with Guardians. ... Totally unfluffy to Eldar.
> ...


A bit delayed, but to Eldar, lives are worth a lot. So they throw a mob unit on the table with T3 5+ armour and call it a day? Oh. And they can only shoot 12". Complete bolter bait. 

Why waste the time when Dire Avengers just got so much better?


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## Jake (Dec 23, 2006)

everything mentioned here is false to me. Why? No unit. NOT ONE, is useless. They all have a roll in an army and if taken advantage of can be usful. There is NO worhless units!


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

Except the ethereal for the reasons above (imho).


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

> everything mentioned here is false to me. Why? No unit. NOT ONE, is useless. They all have a roll in an army and if taken advantage of can be usful. There is NO worhless units!


It's a nice sentiment, a bit like the 'Every army list is equal' and other more world-wide statements. But in reality- this is bollocks.

It's a piece of propoganda that many people thing if shouted loud enough, will drown out the truth.

Explain to me for example how a Repentia unit could ever be useful? Except as easy VP's for your opponent?


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Sisters Repentia are actually kind of rough, IMO. As a Space Marine player, I respect them. Whatever I don't kill (and there WILL be some that I don't kill) are going to cut my Astartes in half with their eviscerators. They're a threat to heavy armour, but that's about it.


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

Aun...gimme points for the "bad guys"
Vespid, my gawd they suck.
Gun Drones are a close tie for second.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

I had another thought,

Ork kommandos. Small mobz with no armour mean even gaurdians and gaurdsmen will knock them over!

I write from experience.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

> Sisters Repentia are actually kind of rough, IMO. As a Space Marine player, I respect them.


Seriously?

A single Tornado- 2+ to wound, no save. Each kill is 20pts...
It's the easiest Victory Points you will ever earn from a unit.

A Repentia squad of around 8 puts you back 170pts for 7 T3 4+ save walking models with no ranged weapons, and 1 T3 3+ save.

Even the Ethereal has a place- I have a planned list concentrating on mobile Fire Warriors trying to avoid the Battlesuit for anime-hate reasons.
The Ethereal grants me an Honours Guard of Fire Warriors with BS 4 and Fearless. They can rapid fire fairly nasty (with markerlight bonuses too), then hold a charging unit far longer than people expect FW's to do.

But Repentia? Seriously, how would you use them?


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> Who sais Long Fangs? What the fuck you yappin about? Long fangs are damned good. I always use them, and they always survive. not the whole unit, but atleast 2. Dude, do you just listen to what peole say, have you used them properly?


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Next you'll be saying logan grimnar is a decnt character


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> Not at all. Over-priced if im honest. Just like fangs. Oh well....


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Lol yeah overpriced definately. Fangs are goo, but too many points for too few bodies. There are certainly SItuations where you will be pleased to have them along, but at the same time, and experienced opp, or even just one with the right sort of list is going to be making you take cas very early from them, and then the Sergeants SKill is pretty much wasted, If he isn't the first to go anyway


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Its really impossible (imo) to say there is a worst, i mean, A) there a so many situations you are going to face where every different unit has a different effect, there is no real all around worst because of this, B) point costs vs effectiveness, probably the one thing that can be used to nail down a worst, but even then there are ways to make things work even with certain point costs C) Uses, well of course theres units that are going to look like shit, look worthless *coughrepentiacough* but hell people use them and make them work, some of the best players ive run into havent looked at it like "thats complete crap i cant use it" but more like "how can i use that to make it work"
So imo i beleive there may be a true worst all around, but its something we cannot nail down until we've worked out EVERY stratagy with EVERY race and understand this game inside and out on the board, but there in lies the key phrase, "on the board" as much as people like to play math hammer, none of those numbers matter, in the end statistics are a guidline yes, but mean almost nothing during the fact its what you use, how you use it, and of course how you roll


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

firewolf said:


> >> Who sais Long Fangs? What the fuck you yappin about? Long fangs are damned good. I always use them, and they always survive. not the whole unit, but atleast 2. Dude, do you just listen to what peole say, have you used them properly?


I agree, my mate uses a squad of five with four missile launchers in a 13th company army and they usually contribute heavily to my thrashing.


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## Fallen Angel (Dec 22, 2006)

Vespid, screamers (seriously there hit and run is stupid), UM tyrannic war vets,


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

vespid are a little bit poo. One of my mates keeps "giving them one more try" and regrets it every time


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

SPACE POPE!
He's the shizzle! 8) 
Also have to agree on the vespid, they really don't have anything going for them.


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## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

Imperial Guard - Conscripts
Space Marines - Scouts with shotguns
Eldar - Dire Avengers (im sorry but that many points to kill 6 marines suck)
Orks - Lootas with plasma cannons ( very funny tho!)
Necrons - Pariahs
Chaos - Horrors
D Eldar - Scourger with dark lances! (lol) just ahead of mandrakes and Hellions (rapid fire weapons, lol)


I think my vote probably goes to Horrors. I mean their just so awful, that followed by conscripts.


MarzM :mrgreen:


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## Antioch (Dec 27, 2006)

MarzM said:


> Imperial Guard - Conscripts
> Space Marines - Scouts with shotguns
> Eldar - Dire Avengers (im sorry but that many points to kill 6 marines suck)
> Orks - Lootas with plasma cannons ( very funny tho!)
> ...



Conscripts are by far the best unit in the Imperial Guard codex. 200 points to field 50 bodies. The point of them is not to be good at shooting. Their explicit purpose is to soak up wounds. Have a wall of conscripts advancing first, with grenade launcher Guardsmen behind them to lob shots over. It's so horrifyingly effective. 

As far as Dire Avengers go, that's just downright bad luck as far as the numbers go. I fail to see the justification behind paying 4 points of complete awesome over Guardians.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

worst unit, Tau Ethereals, just so damn useless.


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## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

Antioch said:


> Conscripts are by far the best unit in the Imperial Guard codex. 200 points to field 50 bodies. The point of them is not to be good at shooting. Their explicit purpose is to soak up wounds. Have a wall of conscripts advancing first, with grenade launcher Guardsmen behind them to lob shots over. It's so horrifyingly effective.
> 
> As far as Dire Avengers go, that's just downright bad luck as far as the numbers go. I fail to see the justification behind paying 4 points of complete awesome over Guardians.



So basically, what your saying is a conscript unit, is a 200 point grot unit with out the ability to re-roll leadership tests and all the benifits of being a grot shield! Honestly i don't agree with your praise of them. I have used them in the past when you could screen unit's (at which point they were usefull) and now you can't in which case their only point is to put models on the table. Their terrible. The best unit in the IG codex is the Baslisk, Hellhound, or basic infantryman.

Ok and as for the Avergers its simple numbers

A marine will fail its armour save 1 in 3 times
so to kill 6 marines you need to wound them 18 times
A shuriken cat is S4 so it's 50/50 so thats 36 hits
And a DA hits 2 out of 3 times so thats 48 shots

9 DA + Exarch with 2 cats and bladestorm = 32 shots at 152pts, and they still have to get into range!

for the same price you can get a Dev squad with 4 HB that will make mince meat out of them, and even a tac squad with 1 HB will kill them to only a few losses. Ok so i like D Avengers, but point for point their not all that good!

MarzM :mrgreen:


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

> 9 DA + Exarch with 2 cats and bladestorm = 32 shots at 152pts, and they still have to get into range!


Stick them In a Waveserpant though (to provide AT fire) and they'll dance around those HB devs Bladestorming them to kingdom come. Theres also the chance that you might be playing a non MEQ player :shock: so thats NO save for your Nids, Orks, Guardsmen etc. Along with pathfinders I think there the two best troops options for the new Eldar.
As for conscripts I have used them a lot In the past and they are quite good as a speedbump, basically throw them at anything that hits your lines hope they hold for a turn via your officers LD9, next turn make sure they fail on their basic LD5 you don't have to use the officers LD after all! :wink:


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## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

Well if you put them in a wave serpent your almost doubling their points! And as for not playing marines! I'd settle for not playing Boltgun Metal ones for a while. IMHO, point for point they still dont cut it for me! Anyway the only good eldar is a dead eldar.....................................


........................ thats why i play Iyanden! lol


MarzM :mrgreen:


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## kholek09 (Feb 4, 2009)

blkdymnd said:


> oh, yeah... good call, forgot all about the worthless vespids


whats wrong with vespids?
my friend practcally worships them!


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

I haven't really seen a Whirlwind on the battlefield in a long time, and figure there is a good reason for that.

Also Possessed CSM might be another good mention, way too random and the Berzerkers do the job so much better :mrgreen:


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

I know that the Necron Pariah are mentioned, but as a Necron player I've got to say that once in a while, though very rarely, they make an appearance in my lists.

But the Tomb Spyder sucks rocks. I never use it. If I have points for it spare and room in the FOC, I'd rather talk my opponent into lowering the point limit of the match rather than taking it.

Its slow as a rock (and can't even run), it's stat line sucks rocks, it's own abilities emasculate it, it costs more than a Destroyer and it's not even a very good model. It's only saving grace is it extends the range of WBB in cases of squad wipe-out so you don't have to bunch your troops as closely - which I've never had a problem with anyway.


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