# Beastmen in 8th



## Katie Drake

Hi everybody, I'm just curious about what people's thoughts are as far as how the Beastmen will work in 8th edition. How should units be equipped? Are there any units that should be avoided? Which of the new common magic items are helpful for the Beasts?

Thanks for your time guys. 

Katie D


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## Arli

You may be able to find some more information on the beastmen as it pertains to the 8th edition over on www.herdstone.com. 

I have seen several topics there discussing beastmen. Unfortunately, I cannot link to the posts directly (blocked at work).


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## Tim/Steve

Gor/Ungor are nice blocker units... but need a good lord close by to up their Ld.
Bestigor are pretty awesome, if they can survive long enough to strike... which I rather doubt.
Minotaurs are almost never going to break and run down an opponent... but who cares, they can just stay in combat, winning round after round getting worse and worse and worse but I kinda doubt they'll be that survivable (but 0+ save gorebulls/doombulls are going to be terrifying sights to behold).
Cygors and Ghorgons are pretty nasty too- stonethrowers are nasty and the ghorgons ability to simply not die will be useful... I dobt their magic is going to do much of anything though... except mebbe to summon an extra monster or 2.


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## Kaizer

I think you have to make very good use of the ambush special rule.

In 7. ed beastmens main concern in my eyes were that their only defence against shooting were their slightly higher toughness, but with all shoot units being able to shoot in more ranks, it might look like they will take even more casualties before they get there.

But then again, being able to strike in extra ranks will make primal fury even better and units of minotaurs are going to be kind of nasty with some extra attacks from the second rank and a free stomp attack.


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## Tim/Steve

Shooting is now 2 ranks for all units, not just those on hills or shooting at large targets... but most gunlines that I've played tended to get set up on hills regardless, so the amount of shooting coming your way isnt really going to change. The big change is that gunlines are going to be able to spread out more, making it harder to destroy them when you do finally reach them.


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## Khorothis

To my mind, this is how one might build a Beastmen army:

1. Maximalise the number of Bestigors for the pts limit, make sure you give them a Musician and a Standard Bearer. Squads of 20-25 should do the trick, though if you can afford 30 then two 15 man groups might be enough, though the 30-gor mass WILL make people shit themselves.
2. Buy Beastlords/Wargors and preferably at least one Great Bray-Shaman with the Lore of Beast, and if the points allow it, one or two other Shaman with Lore of the Wild and pray for a Devolve. Chalice of the Dark Rain is obligatory, since all you have is your Toughness in most cases. Pop it in the second turn and pray for lots of 4-s on the warmachines. With a bit of luck your force will live long enough to take revenge of the cowardly maggots. 
3. Spam Gors in blocks of 40 at best (depending on the pts limit it can be anywhere between 20 and 40) with AHW, Musician and Standard Bearer, preferably so you have an even number of units so half your army can Ambush if you so desire. Having Ungor Raiders is also a good idea, but buying them anything other than a Musician seems to be a waste to me. A bit of shooting is always nice methinks. 
4. Comb list so you can buy all the stuff you need.
5. Plug and pray. 

Of course this is a Gor type of army that aims to circumvent their lack of saves and high Strength (S6 is great of course but I'm a glutton ) with sheer numbers of models, attacks, Steadfast, flexible battleplans and decent Magic phase. Also not having models for our best Rare choices sucks balls. 
I'm not a fan of Minotaur armies, since they're lacking numbers and saves, though admittedly if they get into close combat there'll be problems. But up 'till then I doubt they'll survive. T4 W3 is nice but retarded for a 55 point monster incapable of having a save better than 5+. And you've yet to buy them anything. Seriously, they make Chaos Knights look cheap.


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## Durzod

Ungor raiders have become my favorite unit! I've been using 4 units of 10 with musician (63 points!)). That way I can ambush with two of the units and use the other two to screen my advancing units (deploy them in 1 rank for maximum coverage). With a 50% chance of arrival on Turn 1 on a flank or rear, you can really disrupt a gunline. You can't charge the turn of arrival, but you can shoot (sort of). You can't believe the consternation it can cause to have even 1 of these units can cause. Especially in Dwarfs. Granted, it takes 5s to wound them, but their shooty units only have a 5+ save at best. If you only kill 1, that's 1 less shot at your approaching army. And on turn 2 you can charge a war machine crew. Granted you won't likely break them, but you'll probably keep them from shooting for a turn (you have a good chance of winning against humans).
As for the screen, once your battle line gets within a reasonable charge range, you can charge with the screen to clear a path for your shock troops to charge in. If you lose the screen, so what. It's not like it's a major loss of points.


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## sir_m1ke

The Beastman book has some nasty combos in it and IMO is far stronger this edition than last....of course with it being released recently that would make sense lol

a few combos i want to try:

Great Bray Shaman on Razorgor chariot with Brass Cleaver, Slugskin and Jagged dagger

This is a bitch if you can hit the right unit. Give him death magic to snipe any characters that could cause you problems and then ram him home. D6+1 S5 impact hits, every model in base contact (probably 4) takes a S3 hit, +4 attacks from brass cleaver to give him 6 S4 attacks and then 4 S6 attacks from the razorgor. oh and a S3 attack from the gor lol. The best bit? every model killed is a power dice in your magic phase. this bitch, along with the death "free dice on a 5+" means your shaman can dominate a magic phase without breaking a sweat

or alternatively use lore of beasts and laugh as a cygor wanders on in the enemy backlines and starts to own face. why would you NOT want a free monster? 

Slugtongue is essential. My God if ANY beastman player leaves home without him they need their head checked. lvl2 shaman with poisoned attacks and regen? nice. 50% chance of doing wounds on almost every enemy unit BEFORE THE BATTLE BEGINS- hell yeh! and no armour saves allowed will make knights cry

Gorebull is your BSB, easily the most survivable and can be a combat monster still

Harpies are win against any warmachine on the table, 2A each at I5 makes warmachine heavy armies cry. and cheap enough to be expendible

Razorgor are better than minotaurs IMO. For exactly the same points cost you get a harder hitting, faster and tougher unit. Minos can work, but you end up spending more points to do a job the pigs can do. yes you lose bloodgreed but the pigs are used to hit enemies you have already hit with gors/ungors to wipe them from the board

cygors are win, ItP+stubborn+stone thrower+extra pressure on enemy wizards is great

chariots rock with bestial surge, hit em hard with the rest o the army

jabbers are stil nasty but for my money go with the cygor

fill remaining points with gorebulls, gors and ungor skirmishers. enjoy


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## blackspine

Nice Shaman combo. I was looking for something to lead my 'chariot strike force'.

Shhhh... don't tell about slugtounge. I'm hoping that many people are caught off guard by him. Just his starting ability is worth it. having that and a fast hitting team can wreak havoc on high armor opponents w/ low wounds ( empire, brets, maaaaybe chaos)


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## Khorothis

I think that the best part about the Razorgors is their psychological effect on the opponent. Imagine a Brett player's face when Pumbaa and his mates steamroll his Grail Knights who got a little too stuck in that mass of Gors. Oink-oink, nom-nom! :grin:

The worst part of the Jabber is that I've no idea how its supposed to look like.  The Cygor is nice but hes a little flimsy, though I'm bound to build one at least. My money goes for the Ghorgons though, I've no idea whats your problem with them. They're too damn choppy and resilient to be ignored if you ask me.

Oh and Slugtongue does look strong but still not broken (which is a rarity to me, being used to 40K ). And not unaffordable either. Though I'd take him only if I have another Shaman with Chalice of the Dark Rain, because thats even more obligatory methinks.


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## Tim/Steve

Back when I was working at GW I was trying to sell beastmen to a regular... so we did a bt of theory rolling just so I could show off his starting ability. The nasty army doing the rounds at the time was the manager's 2 engine lizardmen army. The guy rolled 6's for both engines, allocated the hits to the stegs and then rolled 6 wounds on each... oddly he does collect beastmen now and uses slugtongue... although I haven't seen him having that much success at the start of any game.
- slugtongue is the price of a bray shamen with upgrages, and his ability is an unstoppable 1-2wounds per unit average accross pretty much every unit opposing him- with the way warmachines now work that is utterly incredible (22% chance of any normal warmachine within 36" of slugtongue being dead at the start of the game).

I certainly love the characters options for beastmen... its just the troops options and the severe leadership issues that the army has that I cant really get round: I started a new army for 8th and it was a 50-50 between wood elves and beastmen... I went with WE purely because of the lack of models for beastmen (I never like my conversions, other then my utterly undersized mycetic spores: if I could make them 4 times bigger then they would be awesome), and Im quite happy with my choice.


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## sir_m1ke

Khorothis said:


> My money goes for the Ghorgons though, I've no idea whats your problem with them. They're too damn choppy and resilient to be ignored if you ask me.


My problem with the ghorgon is that it doesnt bring anything else to the table other than close combat pain. The cygor has the stone thrower option (templates are all gd now) plus the nice buffs against undead/daemons/wizards/ward save things, and the psychological advantage it gives over enemy wizards. The jabber's aura of madness is very nasty and combined with it's flying ability, poisoned attacks and bile blood means it has a roll in the army, as a skirmisher/warmachine hunter

the ghorgon fills a roll that could be filled by minos and razorgor for less points



Tim/Steve said:


> I certainly love the characters options for beastmen... its just the troops options and the severe leadership issues that the army has that I cant really get round: I started a new army for 8th and it was a 50-50 between wood elves and beastmen... I went with WE purely because of the lack of models for beastmen (I never like my conversions, other then my utterly undersized mycetic spores: if I could make them 4 times bigger then they would be awesome), and Im quite happy with my choice.


The leadership issues also bother me but a gorebull BSB is an effective counter-measure, along with the new steadfast rule which means my gors hang around longer...by no means do these paper over the cracks but they make life easier

i was the same, i had my lizzies but wanted something different and it was 50/50 between WE and beasts and the beasts won me over not because of the models (the razorgor are UGLY ASS models) but because of the fluff and the feel of the army, its a glass hammer but it is so incredibly aggressive and hard hitting i want to give it a go. totally different philosophy to my Saim-Hann where it is all about survival and staying away from the enemy

now if i could only afford to buy more beast models....damn redundency!!!

@ Katie Drake- are there any ideas of units/characters you have been thinking about? might help steer the conversation in a way more beneficial to u k:


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## Khorothis

Sorry for reviving the thread but I need some input and this is the perfect thread to ask.

There are two things I can't come to terms with; firstly, is it a good idea if I drop the Ungor Raiders and go for small, 20-man blocks of Gors who Ambush, while the other of the pair is a 25-30 man strong block, led by a character of some sort? The idea is that I want to make use of Khazrak, so that half my core comes in from a random direction at a random time, which isn't a problem for me (I'm used to chaos and improvising) but its bound to make my opponent sweat just a little bit more. Of course, the threat they'd pose isn't much greater than what the Raiders would manage to, but they'd be a threat that has to be dealt with nonetheless.

My second problem is the heavy-hitting part of the army, the hammer that strikes on the anvil. I'm torn between Minotaurs and Bestigors. The former hits on S5 at I3 and quite a lot, but gets shot up by war machines and other multiple wound goodness. The latter hits at S6 and just a bit less and for less than 25% of a Minotaur's cost, but they are ASF and have a symbolic 5+ armour save to keep them alive 'till then. But still, for the price of a Minotaur with either a shield or an additional hand weapon I can buy 5 Bestigors, which means two extra wounds for each Minotaur, but then again, that extra two wounds is necessary for them to be able to start chopping with their ASL.
The question is: which one to use? Am I even looking at the right place? I'm not sure if it helps but I'd rather have a full Gor army, with the occasional Giant/Cygor/Ghorgon, but if Minotaurs are superior to Bestigors I'm not going to shed tears for them.


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## sir_m1ke

Khorothis said:


> Sorry for reviving the thread but I need some input and this is the perfect thread to ask.
> 
> There are two things I can't come to terms with; firstly, is it a good idea if I drop the Ungor Raiders and go for small, 20-man blocks of Gors who Ambush, while the other of the pair is a 25-30 man strong block, led by a character of some sort? The idea is that I want to make use of Khazrak, so that half my core comes in from a random direction at a random time, which isn't a problem for me (I'm used to chaos and improvising) but its bound to make my opponent sweat just a little bit more. Of course, the threat they'd pose isn't much greater than what the Raiders would manage to, but they'd be a threat that has to be dealt with nonetheless.


I would personally ignore ambush, it is simply too inconsistent for my liking. hitting opponents from multiple directions isnt too hard for beastmen with the likes of harpies which can move damn fast. i started off raider-heavy as i love the concept of them but over the last few battles i have resigned raiders to a shaman-protection roll and just bought more harpies

iv also found gor units work best at a minimum of 30 models, but i do tend to face firepower-heavy armies so.....pinch of salt :victory:



Khorothis said:


> My second problem is the heavy-hitting part of the army, the hammer that strikes on the anvil. I'm torn between Minotaurs and Bestigors. The former hits on S5 at I3 and quite a lot, but gets shot up by war machines and other multiple wound goodness. The latter hits at S6 and just a bit less and for less than 25% of a Minotaur's cost, but they are ASF and have a symbolic 5+ armour save to keep them alive 'till then. But still, for the price of a Minotaur with either a shield or an additional hand weapon I can buy 5 Bestigors, which means two extra wounds for each Minotaur, but then again, that extra two wounds is necessary for them to be able to start chopping with their ASL.
> The question is: which one to use? Am I even looking at the right place? I'm not sure if it helps but I'd rather have a full Gor army, with the occasional Giant/Cygor/Ghorgon, but if Minotaurs are superior to Bestigors I'm not going to shed tears for them.


Chariots and razorgor are our hammers, in my 1250pt list (building a new beast army atm so starting small) i have 2 chariots and 3 razorgor, and they have done me brilliantly. they are all you need

in the mino vs. besti row i am siding with the bestis because so far minos have died when faced with anything stronger than an egg-sandwich powered fart. bestis are just as tough (T4 for minos GW? catch yourselves on.....) and armoured as minos but have the numbers to weather the firepower. plus they actually hit harder wit S6 attacks, 13 of them if you run 6 wide and a champ which with primal fury (plus banner of discipline of course) equals a lot of skulls on the herdstone tonight. i just havent found anything about minos that i like so far, they arent for me atm


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## Khorothis

Hmm... I can imagine a list where every character is on a Chariot (barely anything), Core is filled with Chariots (25%), Special has as many Razorgors as possible (50%) and the rest of the points are spent on Harpies. And considering how the BSB and a Beastlord's higher Ld wouldn't help as much as with Gor blocks, you'd be buying 2-3 Bray Shamen with Lore of Shadows. 

However, this type of army is going to be on the receiving end of disaster when the point limit goes beyond 1500-2000, since you won't have enough room for the army and basically every template weapon and Bolt Thrower is going to cause serious damage.

The more I think about this type of army facing armies like Skaven, High Elves, Empire, Dwarves and WoC the less enthusiastic I become. Unfortunately for me, everyone in my LGS plays at least one of these armies.  I'm kinda glad I haven't bought any models so far.


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## blackspine

Disaster Shmizaster!

ok, sure it might not do too well, but think of the fun and chaos it would sow across the board in t2 when you get your charges.

I've been thinking of a similar army called the "6+ gang" if it can't move 6 or more, it's not there. (thinking of making it 7+)
So a horde of warhounds, Chariots (minimum 4), Ghorros and his gang (about 500 pt investment) razorgor chariot and harpies.
Will it lose.
yes.
will it be so fun to play? Hellllll yes.
(and will let me test some good strategies) 


serious note:
People ignore ambush more than they should. Yes it is unreliable, but so is the animosity of greenskins. It's 1/3 our army's unique abilities. That and primal fury (and manbane). If you're not taking advantage of this, you're selling yourself short.
Not every army is a similar tactic when deploying ambushers. Against WoC, I'd aim to have them pop in from the flanks.
Even disasterous ambush rolls (1) still gave me a nice reserve, that if you're clever, you can bring to bear in round 3 on the flank. For example:
I had a small unit of gors (15) roll a one. The Dwarf general opted to put them in my lower Right corner. with movment 5 (march 10), they made it to charging range by turn three and made the difference between my bestigors and a HUGE unit of longbeards. 

I think of ambushers' like i do Dark Elf assassins. It's a psychological battle. The enemy KNOWS you should have one or two around, and if they are halfway intelligent, are forced to alter their plans in contingent to deal with ungor raiders, regiments of gors, or even my favorite 25 gors popping up out of nowhere.

it's not the points you LOSE on them, it's the rift in the battle lines that you can exploit. If they leave one unit back to deal with them, that's another gap for your chariots or whatevers to smash into. If they kill them all with magic, so what? Your ambushers just ate the 'gateway' not your bestigors/minotaurs/etc etc . Recently, an ambush saved my main battle lines a withering volley from elven archers in close range. Whew.

At Toughness 4, most armies will actually have a moderately hard time getting rid of these without using their elite troops. (not WoC though...)

point being: if you ignore ambush, you ignore a large part of the beastman abilities. Then we become O&G with a 20% higher price tag and primal fury.It seems so small, but when playing with an underdog team, you need every advantage.


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