# Bye - I will be leaving 40k.



## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

Well, I finally decided that the 40k universe is too grimdark for me, so I think I have made the decision, and will be packing up.

You see, I would use 40k as a "retreat" from the real world and politics. Due to an mental disorder called aspergers, I have strong anxieties that will often manifest themselves in political fears, ie becoming slightly suicidal if my political party loses. 40k may seem like an odd choice, but it fufills a rather difficult list:

1. Multi factional military science fiction.
2. Involves aliens.
3. Humans are in it.
4. There are "good" guys and "bad" guys. (Order and disorder are good enough in the case of 40k)
5. At least some humans can be considered "good"/"order"

I think that instead of going to war machine or another series, I will simply create my own storyline that is similar to 40k but without nearly as much grimdark. (I.e. humans are in a psuedo-republic; not as much xenophobic stuff)

It may not have much of a fanbase (probably just myself) but that doesn't matter to me.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

All I can say is, good luck with making your own storylines etc. Make sure you still post them here, they'll be most welcome! Good luck


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Are you leaving the site or just the hobby?


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

Hobby yes, site maybe eventually.

sorry.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Don't apologise, I was just wondering because if it was a site-leaving goodbye thread, then according to the rules it would be the last thread you'd make.

But since it's not I think you're safe, which is why I asked.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Platypus5 said:


> You see, I would use 40k as a "retreat" from the real world and politics. Due to an mental disorder called aspergers, I have strong anxieties that will often manifest themselves in political fears, ie becoming slightly suicidal if my political party loses. 40k may seem like an odd choice, but it fufills a rather difficult list:
> 
> 1. Multi factional military science fiction.
> 2. Involves aliens.
> ...


Dude, this seems a bit silly. I don't intend to bash you, so please don't take it that way. I just don't see Asperger's Syndrome as a reason for leaving this particular hobby. I suffer from the disorder as well but I personally haven't found 40K's background to bother me. Sure, it's grim and dark but hope is still there - the Primarchs could return and so on. The way that the 40K universe works is that unless something changes the Imperium is doomed. That doesn't mean that nothing _can_ change, though. It just won't happen in "official" fluff. Too many people are too caught up in what's official anyway.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Isn't there a rule about no public goodbyes? Whatever, suppose that doesn't apply to leaving hobbies. Good luck with warmachine, although it isn't as simple as you think.


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## Blueberrypop (Apr 27, 2010)

I've played warmachine, it's ridiculous.


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## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

I think you're seeking answers in the wrong places, Platypus5. I'm just saying it now.

You get out of Warhammer 40k exactly what you want out of it. The same goes for a grander scale of things.


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

What i am looking for is a series that isn't as "grimdark."

And I find that I cannot find the emperor acceptable any more as a "good guy." Because of that, I am leaving. 

In other words, I want something more black and white.

Katie drake, the official fluff is the true fluff in any series: Any fan fluff must be compatible with it to some extent. Also, the guys in the fluff section are very harsh. They really dislike my desire for a "happy ending."


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## Blueberrypop (Apr 27, 2010)

Not to be mean, but there arent as many games as in depth as Warhammer. So far it looks like the imperium is doomed, real mankind faces that every day mind you its not to the same extent. Why is the emperor not a good guy anymore?


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## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

If you want to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs. In the case of the Emperor, he broke a few trillion eggs. But damn...is it a good omelet.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

We arn't harsh. We are telling you how it is.... that's the long and the short of it.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Platypus5 said:


> Katie drake, the official fluff is the true fluff in any series: Any fan fluff must be compatible with it to some extent. Also, the guys in the fluff section are very harsh. They really dislike my desire for a "happy ending."


Who cares what they think? They can dislike your desires all they want, it shouldn't effect you or your preferences.

I think part of the problem in this case is that the only part of the hobby that you're interested in is the background (or at least I assume this is so). If this is indeed the case, I recommend that you get into the hobby aspect of things like building/painting/converting models and so on. It may be outside your area(s) of intense interest, but it will probably help you enjoy things more.

Also, you should focus a lot less on the "ending" of the setting. There's *tons* to explore, before and after the Heresy.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

We were vehement in arguing our own view points, if you consider that as 'harsh'...well I'm not going to apologise for stating what I believe just as I never expected you to take it personally.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I would suggest you make up your own faction with tauesk ideals on the outer edge of the galactic rim..... basically your own little oasis of happy rainbows and gumdrop forests.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Okay, I sorta see what you mean about people being 'harsh', but even still it shouldn't bother you any. It's just the internet after all.


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## Blueberrypop (Apr 27, 2010)

oooooooooo candy land candy land


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

gen.ahab said:


> I would suggest you make up your own faction with tauesk ideals on the outer edge of the galactic rim..... basically your own little oasis of happy rainbows and gumdrop forests.


Whilst gen.ahab has decided upon the sarcastic method of delivering an idea it's still a valid proposal (not the rainbows, gumdrops part unless you're making a colony of care bears), the Galaxy is vast and whilst technically the Imperium is galaxy spanning, in actuality more of the Milky Way is *not *in Imperial control than is.

Feel free to make up your own faction utilising an existing Codex you get to inject a bit more hope whilst staying with the dark, gothic setting...pretty much making any force you create that has a shred of decency the brilliant white to the other faction's murky grey.


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Mate, this is the internet.

If you enjoy 40k, then enjoy it. If your enjoyment is tied to an internet forum's opinions of your opinion on the nature of space elves...

than ya, you probably do need to find a new hobby.


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## Illiadar (Jan 21, 2010)

His point is that he feels that when he tries to express his viewpoint, he gets bombarded with people telling him that he's wrong. If he were to make a "good" society in some part of the galaxy and post details on here, (I think) he thinks he'd probably be told 40k is too grimdark for that.

Platypus5: I don't think your intentions are wrong, but I think you'll get the wrong result by leaving the hobby. My suggestion- leave the fluff forums. You can still partake in fluff in other ways- such as writing, painting, and gaming.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Illiadar said:


> His point is that he feels that when he tries to express his viewpoint, he gets bombarded with people telling him that he's wrong. If he were to make a "good" society in some part of the galaxy and post details on here, (I think) he thinks he'd probably be told 40k is too grimdark for that.
> 
> Platypus5: I don't think your intentions are wrong, but I think you'll get the wrong result by leaving the hobby. My suggestion- leave the fluff forums. You can still partake in fluff in other ways- such as writing, painting, and gaming.


Yeah, this sounds about right. Very good, Illiadar. I agree with your idea - spend less time debating things with people in the fluff forum and more time writing fluff, as well as getting into the painting and gaming side of things.

As an example, what about the Interex? They were pretty happy people (though they seemed to believe they were doomed to fall to Chaos eventually) and weren't at all interested in wiping everyone out like the rest of the factions. You could write fluff about how the Interex has changed since encountering the Imperium and even start an Interex army, either using home brewn rules or using another Codex to 'count as' the various things you want.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Platypus5 said:


> What i am looking for is a series that isn't as "grimdark."



Have you tried Pokemon mini's? 40k is the LEAST dark of the table top games i have seen lol......(warmachine has soul eating zombie machines and crazed churches of fiery doom)


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## Geist (Mar 9, 2010)

Platypus5 said:


> Well, I finally decided that the 40k universe is too grimdark for me, so I think I have made the decision, and will be packing up.
> 
> You see, I would use 40k as a "retreat" from the real world and politics. Due to an mental disorder called aspergers, I have strong anxieties that will often manifest themselves in political fears, ie becoming slightly suicidal if my political party loses. 40k may seem like an odd choice, but it fufills a rather difficult list:
> 
> ...


Well, I gotta say, sorry to see you go. Your point of view is refreshing amongst all the pessimists. I'm a little bit of an optimist too(a little less then you I suppose, I think the Imperium will prevail, even without alliances), so I'm gonna tell you about my own personal Human Faction/IG Army background I'm making. Basically, I got this idea from something I read about Alpharius Omegon and the Alpha Legion. 



> Alpharius was the last of the lost sons of the Emperor to be found, some scant decades before the end of the Great Crusade. While most other Primarchs, aside from Rogal Dorn, were found on the worlds they had been cast upon, Alpharius apparently came upon Horus' Fleet in an unnamed system.
> Using a ragtag fleet of primitive one and two-man fighters he cleverly put the advance ship of the Luna Wolves' fleet in a precarious position, which necessitated the intervention of Horus himself. Arriving on his endangered cruiser, he soon learned that a small team of boarders was making its way towards the bridge. The cruiser was at high alert as the five boarders burst onto the bridge. Quickly four of them were dispatched by Bolt Pistol shots from Horus. The fifth one, who towered even over the Luna Wolves' marines dodged Horus' fifth shot, and continued to advance regardless of the gunfire. At the last instant, Alpharius stopped his assault, as both he and Horus realised the situation. Horus laughed, for he had found his last brother.
> Pleased beyond measure, instead of immediately sending him to Terra to meet the Emperor, Horus kept Alpharius with him for some months. The two formed a strong bond, with Alpharius and his ragtag alliance quickly embracing the Imperium. Both brothers were greatly impressed with each other, although *Alpharius refused to reveal his homeworld, denying that each world in the system that the brothers brought into compliance was his point of origin.*


So I decided that my Army was a special forces, fast attack army from an unknown world no one knows the location of. They also have a secular republican based government on their world, but everything off the homeplanet is under the jurisdiction of the military. Thus, they have strict protocols about making sure no one ever learns about the location of their world. My armies tactics are a bit like Elysians, in that they make use of a lot of Valkyries and quick extractions. They often raid Forgeworlds and other Imperial Planets, capturing STC blueprints, and materials they don't have on their planet. 

So you see, I did it, and so can you. The best thing about 40k is that you can do whatever you want to customize it to your world views. The universe is huge, so you can have your own section. There are millions of things you can do to keep your custom faction from being destroyed(my ideas, warpstorm, big dust cloud, etc...), and, since the universe will never end it's existence until GW says so, it will probably never end, so your theories will never be proven wrong.


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## Skartooth (Jun 4, 2010)

You are leaving the hobby because of the way Games Workshop portrays the 40k universe?. I wouldn't let that stop you. At times I don't agree with all the 40k fluff but that doesn't stop me thinking up a 40k universe the way I want it to be. 

Think about it this way. If warhammer was real time then right now mankind would be doomed (just like in the fluff) but mankind's history has been very successful. At one time they spanned the entire galaxy. Why not just imagine the 40k universe at that point in time 

Skar


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

As you can see, it is as goofy, stupid, silly, feminine, childish, humorous, idiotic, ludicrous and imaginative as *YOU* make it. Personally, I don't give a shit what you do, how you do it or what you do it with, but remember, this is just a game with little toy soldiers and should be treated as such.


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## Blueberrypop (Apr 27, 2010)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I lold


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Im not certain you are leaving the hobby, I hate to say it but after reading the thread and other threads you have posted,you seem far more focused on getting people to agree with you or see 40k in your ideal than you are about enjoying "your" hobby. 

If you are a Aspergers sufferer then i would genuinely suggest you speak with your doctor about your feelings about this hobby rather than posting threads on the forum, there is no such thing as an "escape from real life", 40k is real , the fluff is fiction but your relationship with it and the people on this forum is very real, If you can feel deflated about the results of something you have no control over such as your political party then you owe it to yourself to speak with someone about how you feel about your hobby.


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

Unforgiven302, 
Goblin Green bases are like, s-o-o-o 1980's...
Kwality! Have some rep for putting a big smile on my face.


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## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

Platypus5 said:


> You see, I would use 40k as a "retreat" from the real world and politics. Due to an mental disorder called aspergers, I have strong anxieties that will often manifest themselves in political fears, ie becoming slightly suicidal if my political party loses. 40k may seem like an odd choice, but it fufills a rather difficult list:


I didn't relise there where so many aspergers people around. Both me and my brother have it(tho my brothers is a little worse and he's a Train nutter).

Take it from another aspergers person who plays the game. Sometimes you jsut need to get away from the hobby every so often. I have a few hobbys that i can stitch between when one starts to boar me or get mundane. By having a few hobbys i can fall back on them when i need a break form another.


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> If you are a Aspergers sufferer then i would genuinely suggest you speak with your doctor about your feelings about this hobby rather than posting threads on the forum, there is no such thing as an "escape from real life", 40k is real , the fluff is fiction but your relationship with it and the people on this forum is very real, If you can feel deflated about the results of something you have no control over such as your political party then you owe it to yourself to speak with someone about how you feel about your hobby.


Tried that.... didn't work. The problem is that I often convince myself that each political issue is an existential crisis to civilization. I.E. Iran tests new missiles: OMG NUCLEAR WAR IS COMING WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!! While the chances of that based solely on the individual news story are minute, a minute chance is all it takes to set off my worries.



Baron Spikey said:


> Feel free to make up your own faction utilising an existing Codex you get to inject a bit more hope whilst staying with the dark, gothic setting...pretty much making any force you create that has a shred of decency the brilliant white to the other faction's murky grey.


Well.... I guess that could possibly work. Is this an acceptable idea?

A quasi-republic made up of humans and some aliens that is about 1000 lightyears in territory. They occupy a chunk of the Centaurus Arm in Ultima Segmentum. Army is perhaps like the Imperial Guard, except soldiers are better trained, better equipted, and don't have meglomaniac comissars.

Method of FTL Travel: Haven't decided, but NOT the same as the Imperial Warp Travel and does not require the Astronomicion. Perhaps they managed to study Necron FTL tech, or they found an entirely new way of traveling.

Why the Imperium hasn't wiped them out yet/origins: Don't know yet.

The one thing I am worried about is that CoTE would be likely to blow a gasket.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Platypus5 said:


> Tried that.... didn't work. The problem is that I often convince myself that each political issue is an existential crisis to civilization. I.E. Iran tests new missiles: OMG NUCLEAR WAR IS COMING WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!! While the chances of that based solely on the individual news story are minute, a minute chance is all it takes to set off my worries.


I had ADHD and that presents itself with mild paranoia. Just think about the gumdrop forests



Platypus5 said:


> Well.... I guess that could possibly work. Is this an acceptable idea?


No, we are fucking with you...... yes its acceptable.:laugh:k:





Platypus5 said:


> The one thing I am worried about is that CoTE would be likely to blow a gasket.


Fuck him. Do what you want.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Platypus5 said:


> The one thing I am worried about is that CoTE would be likely to blow a gasket.


All Child will do is help you by pointing out where things may not make sense or do not seem to work. You don't like what he has to say, alright just ignore it; in the end your putting your work up for others to see and comment on, and all he's doing is trying to help you.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Although.......


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Although.......


I take your Chibi and raise it one Hello Kitty:










OP, I personally like the depth of the Warhammer universe (yes, that means all the "grimdark" too), but if you get anxious over all the depressing things about it, you should do what makes you comfortable. If that's leaving, then leave; if it's creating a slightly more optimistic small faction in non-Imperial space, go right ahead. The Astronomican doesn't reach forever, and much of space is unexplored. You'll just have to pretend that the Tyranids and other unknown threats ignore you on their way to the Imperium.


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## Geist (Mar 9, 2010)

Platypus5 said:


> Tried that.... didn't work. The problem is that I often convince myself that each political issue is an existential crisis to civilization. I.E. Iran tests new missiles: OMG NUCLEAR WAR IS COMING WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!! While the chances of that based solely on the individual news story are minute, a minute chance is all it takes to set off my worries.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If your empire isn't that big, you could try near-light travel. Doesn't use the warp and due to some laws I can't remember and read about in the Ender Series(possibly stuff author made up, but still usable), time will seem to slow, thus preserving inhabitants of ship going to whatever planet. Still, only works if empire is small, like the Tau Empire, though they use a form of warp travel with small jumps.

Also, if your going to get into the hobby with your army, Elysian Drop Troops seem to fit your description of better armed, better trained, no commissars IG army. Expensive, but if you do it like me, you can buy one squad every so often, and slowly build up an army. My other ideas are use Elysians as troops, but get regular IG vehicles. Also, Tau weapons have that futuristic feel to them, so if you want, you can make some IG/Tau creations and use either Tau or IG rules for them.

Glad we're helping with the change your mind part. Without you, who will argue with...well, everyone who plays 40k.:biggrin:


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## LordofFenris (Mar 10, 2010)

Since this seems like an in depth discussion I'll weigh in:

I never knew Asperger's Syndrome existed until this thread. 

Platypus, I read alot of your posts in the fluff section. While I won't try to give you reasons to stay with the hobby, I will give my opinion that I think its a bad idea to leave it. If its causing you medical discomfort, then you do what you must do. While my gf does not suffer from the same condition you do, she also has no interest in the fluff of 40K because it is so dark. (Though she did laugh at the Hello Kitty Marines and Necrons). She focuses on painting, while I love the background story and building/customizing models more than I like playing! If you have tried to find something to help suit you and can't, then step away. Come back after you think you have had enough time away, and try again. Maybe your view will change also. FYI, I agree the Emperor is a total disappointment. I wanted him to be a great savior, a genuine good guy, but he's not. He's really no better than the Chaos Gods.....at least they don't try to hide what they are about. Good luck! 
PS: I do like the ideas others are giving for a custom army to fit your style....


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

He was the good guy.... But sometimes bad things must be done to achieve a greater good( fuck the tau and their taking that phrase). Do you think America or England don't so horrible things to get some greater good out of it? Fuck yes they do and it is worth it.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Platypus5 said:


> Tried that.... didn't work. The problem is that I often convince myself that each political issue is an existential crisis to civilization. I.E. Iran tests new missiles: OMG NUCLEAR WAR IS COMING WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!! While the chances of that based solely on the individual news story are minute, a minute chance is all it takes to set off my worries.


so have you stopped watching the news?


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Platypus5 said:


> Well.... I guess that could possibly work. Is this an acceptable idea?
> 
> A quasi-republic made up of humans and some aliens that is about 1000 lightyears in territory. They occupy a chunk of the Centaurus Arm in Ultima Segmentum. Army is perhaps like the Imperial Guard, except soldiers are better trained, better equipted, and don't have meglomaniac comissars.
> 
> ...


As for a possible reason why the Imperium wouldn't have killed them. Perhaps they offer valuable military assistance? While the Imperium's methods are questionable, they certainly are fighting the bad guys, and, with enough competence in both militaristic and diplomatic matters, your faction might be able to reach an uneasy alliance with them.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

I don't buy this.

40k isn't Grimdark at all. GW have merely left very plausible and effective storylines to allow players to make up their own minds on where each race stands.

We know that the Imperium of man is as corrupt as it can get, yet, we also know, that their are a handful of heros in there trying so hard to put it all back together. So you can choose, are you a hero? or a corrupter? What tickles your fancy? 

Each race has good and bad points allowing players to formulate their own ideas/characters/themes/fluff. You don't find that in many other tabletop games.

Sorry, this is pretty bull to me.


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

Orochi - "I don't buy this..." et al.

You are missing the point entirely. This is not about whether 40K is "Grimdark" or not, it is to do with Aspergers Syndrome and how it affects people. 
Presumably you are reading this Forum on the internet, so you are in a position to access and read the NHS Overview of this condition. 
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/autism-aspergers/

I obviously cannot speak for Platypus5, but my partner is currently teaching a pupil with this condition and in the past fifteen years has taught many others with the same condition. So I asked her to give me some insight into the matter. 
The child takes everything LITERALLY. An example being if you were to say to them "You look good enough to eat today." The child would believe that you were going to really try to eat them. 

So, be aware when making facetious comments that there is a good chance that the person on the other end of your message is taking everything you say as the absolute truth. Consequently, something flippant that takes you ten seconds or so to type up as a right laugh can seriously cause the receiver problems for some time to come. And when you've long forgotten you ever said anything, it can still be troubling them a great deal.

I'll get off my soapbox now, but seriously, check out the information on that NHS Site.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Nothing wrong with saying the game is not fun anymore, and he's going someplace else for enjoyment and relaxation. Whatever the reasons the game's not fun, it happens. No need to try and "convince" him differently. I think War Machine is even darker than 40k, myself. I don't know of any "scifi" venue that isn't dark, somewhat. Maybe Honor Harrington stuff, but that's all starship. Or Starship Troopers, when it was around.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I also have Asperger's, and I got to say deep down your negative feelings towards the game of late may actually be you projecting the negative/restrictive behavior of fellow hobbyists onto the hobby itself. Or not, but that's usually how I find things. Then again I love nihilistic philosophic perspectives, so depressing subject matter has never been a concern for me.

Alternatively keep in mind you may be acting impulsively, and as such it may be advisable to take time to reflect before making a decision that may actually further your current depression.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I agree a tad bit with Orochi. The BRB says a lot of unnecessarily grimdark things that one can't help but laugh at, especially if you've read just one book of the Gaunt series. Humans still have a sense of humour, hell, even Space Marines have some (Biff Tundrish anyone? ). 40K revolves around a lot of shit happening on a daily basis and life isn't as laid back and peaceful like the times we live in currently ([exaggeration]because lets face it, war is becoming so out of fashion (or perhaps date?) that we'll all become hippies in a matter of decades  [/exaggeration]). The way you relate to the established world relies heavily on your point of view.

With that said, I think that assigning good guys and bad guys in 40K is entirely arbitrary. Sure there are kind ones and mean ones, but if you're honest and truthful you just can't pick a single good guy without being biased to some extent. And since this is a personal issue for you I'll try and make use of my own situation to better describe my point.
You see, I'm a quite rock-solid Chaos Marine fan and I really don't like what Big E did during the Great Crusade. He screwed up irredeemably in my eyes and I think that the "Traitor" Legions' lust for vengence is not only based on clear facts but I find that we're on the same side. And all the horrors of the Warp are the monster-children of this hatred (to some extent at least). So you could say that it is the world's "natural reaction" to the dick that is the Emperor (and lets not forget Eldrad :biggrin.
On the other hand I love the Sisters of Battle. I can relate to their fervent desire to purge the world of the mislead, the ignorant, and the inherently evil. The story I wrote for my Sisters says that they (along with me) hope, pray and fight for the reincarnation of the Emperor, either as a God or as a mortal man who walks among his people once more, to rid the world of the darkness that plagues it. Though I hope when he wakes up that he'll fix the Imperium's relationship with the Eldar and the Tau and focus on more important things (Failabaddon, Necrons, 'nids and Armageddon, just to mention the most dire issues).
Of course there is a contradiction in my view because the CSM and the Sisters have exactly the opposite goals: where one is consumed by vengeance the other is determined to keep His Imperium safe as long as he lives. To be honest, I don't mind this contradiction at all: I consider both sides being correct and if it would be possible I'd let them both have it their way.
As you can see, it is a very-very-very arbitrary decision when you try to tell apart grey and grey, regardless of how fair and truthful you want to be. But what I wanted to make out of this whole mess is that if you let the fluff decide for you then 40K is the typical grimdark shitpit that most people in the hobby like and enjoy for various reasons. But if you realise and accept that it is *entirely* up to you then you can enjoy not only the game and the hobby, but the world also.

And don't worry about CotE, hes just very determined and persuasive.  Oh and a little hint on every kind of fluff argument: 70% of the time the whole thread will end with a fairly coherent chain of opinions because 70% of the threads' topic is subjective enough that coming to a conclusion is a messy business (there was a nice thread once about how Magnus was or wasn't a traitor, or if so to what extent and so on...). So in 70% of the cases its arbitrary and there is no truth to be found, all you can do is have a mature viewpoint and try not to gut that loyalist whelp in front of you... :laugh:

I hope this tl;dr rant helped somewhat, it'd be a shame if you left mate. But if thats what you think is best then go for it.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

if you want a game thats not grimdark then try....errr....erm, actually your sorta screwed, there practically isn't a game that isn't grimdark, oh how about chess?, thats not grim dark, apart from the oppression of the whites over the blacks going first........hmm maybe not then.

how about snakes and ladders....apart from the snakes representing obstacles in the face of adversity which drag you down to the lower levels and force you to claw.....ok maybe not snakes and ladders.

how about......a thomas the tank engine boardgame, I can see no grimdark in that, thomas good, naughty trucks bad.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> if you want a game thats not grimdark then try....errr....erm, actually your sorta screwed, there practically isn't a game that isn't grimdark, oh how about chess?, thats not grim dark, apart from the oppression of the whites over the blacks going first........hmm maybe not then.
> 
> how about snakes and ladders....apart from the snakes representing obstacles in the face of adversity which drag you down to the lower levels and force you to claw.....ok maybe not snakes and ladders.
> 
> how about......a thomas the tank engine boardgame, I can see no grimdark in that, thomas good, naughty trucks bad.


If only this sense of humour was avaliable to supply and demand.

If only.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yeah.... Except it is completely contrairy to your points.... Which were wrong.... Really wrong.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Granted, I didn't read the whole thread. But to be fair, it scares me that a topic on a table top game's forum website would descend into talking about medical matters. I appreciate that it is a very real phenominom, and it should be taken very seriously, but there is a time and a place.

This is not the place. If it were in the correct forum thread, then yes, but younger users could stray onto this and read things parents may find inappropriate. Yes, I would jump to tell such parents to 'fuck off' like the rest of you would, but we must understand that such parenting exists, and I would much rather Heresy online retain a reputation from being a friendly place with a group of members who do their utmost to adhere to the sites friendly nature.

To the poster above me, yes it is CONTRARY to my first post in this topic, but forgive me, I do believe I am allowed to find things that even though maybe playful attacks on me, entertaining and thus humourous. So whether Stella agrees with me or not, I found the post funny. I hope in future you'll better understand my responses to posts, but I understand that there is a chance you may find it hard


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## Primarch Lorgar (Jul 11, 2009)

I to want a happy ending! what's the fun if everybody dies, If chaos survives, I'm happy, PM me if you make some "Happy ending" fluff!:biggrin:


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Or, maybe you can customize an army, use the same Codex, and since you don't expect to play against anyone anyway, make 2. Or just play Warhammer for fun, and not for story-telling.

My 2 cents,
DestroyerHive


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes, I know and knew I was spelling it wrong but my iPhone saves words and the first time I spelled that word it was wrong but idc.. Still gets the point across. Oh and I understood it... Also find the fact that you were so butt hurt by it immensely entertaining. Lol

This is to orochi or however you may spell it, I couldn't really give a flying fuck. Lol


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Butt hurt? I thought it was funny? You've lost me! AHHHHHHHH!


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

:shok: Argh nvm. I just think you are wrong about 40k not being grim dark. That simplify thing?


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## Blueberrypop (Apr 27, 2010)

It is dark but so is everyday life now. The only difference is that you only SEE the war aspect of warhammer 40k not the every day life of an Imperium citizen.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yeah we have and we live and happy fun land compared to that shit.


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

I think all we can say now is one word and one word only......

Bye

Awimba Wah, Awimba Wah, Awimba Wah

In the jungle, the mighty jungle, a lion sleeps tonight, 

Awimba Wumba Wumba!

But one day it farted, an earthquake started and all the animals died!

AWUMBA AWUMBA!

AWEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOoooOOOoo....

Well that's my farewell sayings, have fun and good luck with wherever you're going and may the waaagh be with you.....Talllyhooooo!


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## Blueberrypop (Apr 27, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Yeah we have and we live and happy fun land compared to that shit.


Comparatively yes, but there isn't too much detail about the life of an every day argi-world citizen. Fear of the "dark" is there but they don't stop living. We have not made it to a point where we can compare how humanity is now to how it is in warhammer 40k, it's Sci-fi the future is unknown. One day we might live in peace one day we might live in war. I was just comparing the fact that the world now is a darker place than it has ever been, other than WWII I suppose. We live with war, corruption, crime and death every single day humanity is alive but we keep living and we prepare for the worst and hope for the best.


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## JeroenFM (Nov 25, 2008)

I think someone here on Heresy mentioned Infinity as being less "grimdark".

I took a quick glance at the Wikipedia page (since I don't play the game myself) and it's basically several warring human factions also threatened by a vast alien force. It's not a universe of rainbows and unicorns, but the outlook is not hopeless by any means.


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## Geist (Mar 9, 2010)

Wow, visited the website. Why have I never heard of it before? The models look great. Since it's 28mm, I might use a few models in my 40k army. Anyone know how popular it is?


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## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

Can I have your mini's?


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Frankly if someone is looking for a happy utopian fluff based army then they are not trying hard enough. There are so many ways that it could be done and done easily. (I believe i have said this somewhere before) The adrantis union on the BOLS macharian crusade. Advanced utopian human society. Use codex tau. They ally with xenos of like mind so they can be peaceful and friendly. Alternatively use the codex necrons to model a droid army with a single human leader. This is the military arm of an independant state. Not only do they fight for what is right but they use robots for combat. No-one dies. How non grimdark can you get? On their home planet is a peaceful utopia.

Tell me if i am wrong?


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## LJT_123 (Dec 26, 2007)

Blueberrypop said:


> Comparatively yes, but there isn't too much detail about the life of an every day argi-world citizen. Fear of the "dark" is there but they don't stop living. We have not made it to a point where we can compare how humanity is now to how it is in warhammer 40k, it's Sci-fi the future is unknown. One day we might live in peace one day we might live in war. I was just comparing the fact that the world now is a darker place than it has ever been, other than WWII I suppose. We live with war, corruption, crime and death every single day humanity is alive but we keep living and we prepare for the worst and hope for the best.


They do give a decent amount of information regarding the normal lives of an Imperial citizen. If you read novels like Eisenhorn and some Imperial Guard themed books, they give some information regarding every day lives. Especially in Eisenhorn. 

I've gotta say, life in the future is very similar to it is now. Cities have pretty much the same stuff in as they do now albeit on a much larger scale. For example they still have resturants, bars/pubs, bookies, libraries, hotels, schools (Schola Progenium) etc. .

Heck, even the richer citizens even have time for holidays in the darkness of the 41st millenium, and I remember reading about a paradise planet in Eisenhorn. 

So yeah, life isnt that grim (unless you're a Guardsman) and alot of background info is present in the fluff. 

Sources: EISENHORN!!! screamed Moliter.


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## DonFer (Apr 23, 2010)

Just and opinion and of course a respectful one. If you have that ailment, then whatever the hobby you choose I reckon you’ll always feel it’s not good enough for you. I think it’s all a matter of points of view (as Obi Wan said once). I can agree with you that WH40K can sometimes be “disturbing” in its grim-darkness but there is always hope for all. Hey if not, why do we even bother playing and trying to win if there isn’t any hope? If you lost hope in the Emperor as the savior of humanity, then why not focus in the Inquisition? They fight for what they believe, and they believe that there is a greater good, worth fighting, dying and killing for. You like Orks? Hey they do what they really like (war), and are happy with it. What more happiness is there than do what you like anytime you like? 

On what other people say about your points of view, remember that anyone is entitled to an opinion (and is allowed to disagree with you), as long it is respectful and responding to the etiquettes of this forum of course. So don’t feel attacked on your points of view.

I really hope you come around, but if not then I hope you find a hobby that suits your needs. 

Cheers


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## Blueberrypop (Apr 27, 2010)

If you live down in the hive slums you might have some problems, just like humans now though they just try to live their lives as normally as possible. Warhammer is still dark but there are shimmers of light.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

You know what I don't think he's even reading this anymore.

Maybe we should just let his melodramatic arse leave, he's gotten more arguments to stay than his contributions really would have suggested he'd get- which is probably really all he was looking for anyway.


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## DonFer (Apr 23, 2010)

'Nuff said


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