# Holy wow! CHAOS updates!



## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)




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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

My response was much the same, except wow wasn't the word I used. It had four letters and would be blanked out if I posted it.


LotN


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

Lord of the Night said:


> My response was much the same, except wow wasn't the word I used. It had four letters and would be blanked out if I posted it.
> 
> 
> LotN



Fish? Slug? Floob? Blark?
Hmm...I can't work it out.

I'm not entirely sure if I'm hallucinating, but is that a new set of Terminators? Like...new...with multiparts?!


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

I'm almost positive that it's the same Terminator Kit, packaged with the Terminator Lord sprue.

Just like the other box is just repackaging the same cultists and the Dark Vengeance Chosen Champion.


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

And there I was, thinking that GW bothered to make new models that weren't Imperial Space Marines. What a fool I am.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

There *are* some other rumors that suggest late 2016 for new units.

Frankly, the Terminators and Termi-Lord don't need new kits. They already have a decent amount of upgrades, considering how underused Terminators are to begin with.

Let them save their efforts for kits that need it, like plastic cult troops.


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

Xabre said:


> There *are* some other rumors that suggest late 2016 for new units.
> 
> Frankly, the Terminators and Termi-Lord don't need new kits. They already have a decent amount of upgrades, considering how underused Terminators are to begin with.
> 
> Let them save their efforts for kits that need it, like plastic cult troops.



I actually have nightmares about Chaos Termies.
I was once playing a 2v2 game with my friends. I had my Eldar army and my friend had his chaos guys. He had a unit of close combat termies which he decided to park in the centre of the battlefield.
He just left them there. Our opponents picked them off one by one and he didn't move them. Why didn't he send them into combat?! WHY!? I kept telling him to send them in, but he said that he had a plan for them. What kind of plan?! They all died. This happened 8 years ago and I'm still upset by it.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

"Updates".


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## Tyriks (Dec 9, 2015)

Kharn The Complainer said:


> I actually have nightmares about Chaos Termies.
> I was once playing a 2v2 game with my friends. I had my Eldar army and my friend had his chaos guys. He had a unit of close combat termies which he decided to park in the centre of the battlefield.
> He just left them there. Our opponents picked them off one by one and he didn't move them. Why didn't he send them into combat?! WHY!? I kept telling him to send them in, but he said that he had a plan for them. What kind of plan?! They all died. This happened 8 years ago and I'm still upset by it.


Gotta make them feel complacent so you can catch them off guard! I'll bet those guys got haunted SO BAD later on.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Eh, it paves the way for them being in the next Campaign book to get a Decurion/Combi-Detachment along with I suspect Grey Knights, and chances are it'll be better than the Ork or Imperial Guard ones, so yeah, thumbs up.


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## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

I just wonder if they bothered to change anything in those supplements. I already have the Crimson Slaughter book and I don't feel like shelling out another $50 if nothing has changed....


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## Brother Armiger (Mar 24, 2016)

Well, it's something. Maybe now people will actually start buying more Chaos.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

Brother Armiger said:


> Well, it's something. Maybe now people will actually start buying more Chaos.


Or GW could, you know, release new models of characters that at this point badly need re-sculpts; Kharn, Abaddon, Ahriman, Typhus & Lucius are ok but could also use a touch up, or a new codex, or a chaos imperial knight like thing, a NEW landraider of Chaos origins, drop pods...


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Fallen said:


> Or GW could, you know, release new models of characters that at this point badly need re-sculpts; Kharn, Abaddon, Ahriman, Typhus & Lucius are ok but could also use a touch up, or a new codex, or a chaos imperial knight like thing, a NEW landraider of Chaos origins, drop pods...


In other words, they could act like they give a damn instead of just releasing a few formations and call it a day.

GW could be printing money right now and instead they are 4 days late with the worlds worst April Fools joke.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

The Sturk said:


> I just wonder if they bothered to change anything in those supplements. I already have the Crimson Slaughter book and I don't feel like shelling out another $50 if nothing has changed....



If it is like the Ork one they just did, they will fold some of the random WD and campaign formations into it, add a over priced 'decurion' option, and call it a day.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

Something to note, at the very least the 'Chosen of Abaddon' was already done in Pandorax, so they're starting to reuse the Apoc formations now.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

Fallen said:


> Or GW could, you know, release new models of characters that at this point badly need re-sculpts; Kharn, Abaddon, Ahriman, Typhus & Lucius are ok but could also use a touch up, or a new codex, or a chaos imperial knight like thing, a NEW landraider of Chaos origins, drop pods...


Forgeworld already did the Chaos Knight, and GW and FW don't step on each other's toes.

You won't get a new Land Raider because GW has decided that CSM are not going to be spiky loyalists. You'll get the tanks that are already there, but so far it looks like any new 'vehicle' will be a dino bot demonically-blended monstrosity, to make them obviously not spiky legions. 

And CSM will cry forever because they can't have toys like marines can.


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## Roganzar (Feb 16, 2014)

Its a shame that this is the direction they've chosen. Especially with the great Sigmar Chaos sculpts. Hopefully this does pave the way for new sculpts of the big names.

Actually, now I'm curious, what was the last new model for CSM? Was it that Aspiring Champion?


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

The only one that's any good is the sorc one, and only as a method of adding some to demon kin etc without a bullshit tax. 
The demon engine one is mediocre for the 450 price tag


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Nordicus said:


> "Updates".


Pretty much. :laugh:


Still, why couldn't they have released that Cultist box when I still gave a fuck about CSM?
Been debating if I should get out the unfinished Nurgle marines and have another go at the army. But then I started painting my Bolt Action Germans...... :laugh:


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

Piss poor no effort on their part at all. The thing is they could have done something really cool and it would have required only the tiniest bit more effort than they actualy put in. They could have come up with a decurion to encompass all the legions without needing to include legion traits. A couple of warlord trait tables, a few unique wargear items, and a foot note like the wulfen supplement did letting you take vehicles in squadrons. They could then have added a reprint of the god specific psychic powers that came out in the begining of sixth in the new format along with a set of malific daemonolgy and tactical objective cards. They could have added the crimson slaughter and black legion stuff like they did with the sentinels and raukaan stuff in the aod supplement then given it a cool name like veterans of the long war and called it done.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Before we continue, please note the following:

- There's no update of the main codex. 

- There's no datacards and/or psychic cards. This is mandatory in 7th updates of codexes.

- All the updates are for supplements, which contain no unit description, costs or wargear.

All they've done is update the two supplements. I don't think this is the main update, as the update they've done now can easily be transfered to a upcoming update of the main codex. 

Take a breath and realize that this is a hotfix to the current supplements; NOT an update of the codex and of Chaos Space Marines.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

DaisyDuke said:


> The only one that's any good is the sorc one, and only as a method of adding some to demon kin etc without a bullshit tax.


You realize the reason KDK was made was specifically so that Khorne could get access to buffs and summoning WITHOUT sorcerers, right?


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

Last time I checked they had no access to psychic without allies and therefore ......


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

What with invisibility kind of being an essential to get in to combat.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

DaisyDuke said:


> Last time I checked they had no access to psychic without allies and therefore ......


Done on purpose, because Khorne is against all things sorcery based. However, since Demon armies were so dominant with summoning, and were automatically nerfed if they were played fluffy without sorerous assistance...


Blood for the Blood God gives them access to Blessings and Summoning, without needing to take units that have nothing to do with Khorne.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

DaisyDuke said:


> What with invisibility kind of being an essential to get in to combat.


Playing KDK has taught me it's not essential to have invisibility to get into combat; it's essential to have invisibility to get _one specific unit_ into combat, and KDK's answer to that is "throw a dozen fast cheap small interchangeable units at you, and as you kill those off, summon more to continue throwing at you."

I mean taking 3-5 Sorcs on bikes to add into your Flesh Hounds to give them an even more absurd DTW bonus (to say nothing of a warp charge bank to back that DTW roll up) and also giving them force weapons, meltabombs, some AP2 (if force axes), Telepathy powers, etc, sounds like a very solid playable course of action--just that fluffy Khornate players will gnash their teeth in frustration, that's all. Except, well, for the fact that you could get 10ish more Flesh Hounds per sorc-worth of points, I suppose.


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

Fallen said:


> Or GW could, you know, release new models of characters that at this point badly need re-sculpts; Kharn, Abaddon, Ahriman, Typhus & Lucius are ok but could also use a touch up, or a new codex, or a chaos imperial knight like thing, a NEW landraider of Chaos origins, drop pods...



It would be nice to see resculpts, especially since GW modellers have improved immensely since the original sculpts were made. They'd create some really awesome models if they did it now.
But really, I'd just field forgeworld Kharn and Typhus and paint them in their 40k colours. I think that's as good as it's going to get. Speaking of which, I'd be interested to see a FW Lucius. Would they go with pre or post Istvaan look?


EDIT; Has anyone else noticed that FW is discontinuing Chaos Dreadnoughts? (and Raven Guard)
I wonder what that's about. Will they be producing new sculpts or have the moulds become too old to use anymore?


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Kharn The Complainer said:


> EDIT; Has anyone else noticed that FW is discontinuing Chaos Dreadnoughts? (and Raven Guard)


They have discontinued all MKIV dreadnoughts, from all chapters - Not only Chaos  My guess would be a new line coming or just that nobody buys them.


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## Brother Armiger (Mar 24, 2016)

Xabre said:


> And CSM will cry forever because they can't have toys like marines can.


There's always been something that bothers me- Chaos _should _be able to use any toys that the loyalists have, you'd think. I mean, with some sort of penalty (the Machine Spirits get pissy).

I mean, there's plenty of models that make you say, "That would look badass all Chaos-Corrupted".


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## Roganzar (Feb 16, 2014)

Brother Armiger said:


> There's always been something that bothers me- Chaos _should _be able to use any toys that the loyalists have, you'd think. I mean, with some sort of penalty (the Machine Spirits get pissy).
> 
> I mean, there's plenty of models that make you say, "That would look badass all Chaos-Corrupted".


100% Agree.
My favorite way to do CSM is not corrupted legions but traitor warband. With every intention of stealing the loyalist's toys and other useful equipment, (geneseed in particular) to use against them. I'd love to see the cuddly Centurions be Chaos-Corrupted after a warband stole a bunch and rebuilt them with Dark Mechanicum "blessings."

Maybe. Maybe that will be a thing GW adds to the actual new Codex. Doubt it, sadly, since they focus on the original traitors too much. But I can hope.


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## Brother Armiger (Mar 24, 2016)

I mean, you'd think making people buy that big-ass Space Marine codex, then a 'supplement' book for Traitor Legions would be easier. 

Just a thought.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

Brother Armiger said:


> There's always been something that bothers me- Chaos _should _be able to use any toys that the loyalists have, you'd think. I mean, with some sort of penalty (the Machine Spirits get pissy).
> 
> I mean, there's plenty of models that make you say, "That would look badass all Chaos-Corrupted".


Chaos Space Marines lost access to Loyalist tech 10,000 years ago. Sure, they have their own Dark Mech forgeworlds, but those went in their own directions, giving you things like Heldrakes, Forgefiends, Obliterators....

That's the whole point. You can't say 'well, the Loyalists recently figured out how to build Centurions sometime in the last 2000 years, obviously Chaos has it. How? When? They're cut off. The should NOT see the same toys.

Knights have existed since the Heresy, and FW created a Chaos version to go with it. Same with their own Legion-sized (the Kharybdis is huge) drop pod. But they don't have access or really use the smaller, more modern ones. 

If you want to play 'Traitor Legions', then play 30k, when they were still legions, not defeated and shattered by their loss at Terra and sent scurrying back into the Eye.

Or play Loyalists and paint them black with spikes.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Xabre said:


> That's the whole point. You can't say 'well, the Loyalists recently figured out how to build Centurions sometime in the last 2000 years, obviously Chaos has it. How? When? They're cut off. The should NOT see the same toys.


Not officially, in-game, but lore-wise there's no reason that some CSMs somewhere in the galaxy couldn't have managed to get their hands on some Centurions, looted from a defeated enemy perhaps? They shouldn't have access to them in-game, but if you wanted to model a Chaos Centurion that could be fitting in my opinion.


LotN


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

Lord of the Night said:


> Not officially, in-game, but lore-wise there's no reason that some CSMs somewhere in the galaxy couldn't have managed to get their hands on some Centurions, looted from a defeated enemy perhaps? They shouldn't have access to them in-game, but if you wanted to model a Chaos Centurion that could be fitting in my opinion.
> 
> 
> LotN


THAT is easy enough. Hell, my Thousand Sons don't believe in demons, so I'd rather build a Centurion model and give them Obliterator stats.

However, I don't feel that's what Armiger was saying above. He stated he felt Traitor legions should get any toys loyalists had.

That's just a load, frankly.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> My response was much the same, except wow wasn't the word I used. It had four letters and would be blanked out if I posted it.


Bullshit. We don't censor single words here and you know it.


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## Brother Armiger (Mar 24, 2016)

Xabre said:


> THAT is easy enough. Hell, my Thousand Sons don't believe in demons, so I'd rather build a Centurion model and give them Obliterator stats.
> 
> However, I don't feel that's what Armiger was saying above. He stated he felt Traitor legions should get any toys loyalists had.
> 
> That's just a load, frankly.



Eh, don't get me wrong. Maybe not 'exactly', but like a 'Chaos' version of it. Like a Nurgle fart-cannon on a Blechblade or something. Something you could buy an upgrade for.

Like, similar 'general vehicle', but a corrupted one that performs differently.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

Brother Armiger said:


> Eh, don't get me wrong. Maybe not 'exactly', but like a 'Chaos' version of it. Like a Nurgle fart-cannon on a Blechblade or something. Something you could buy an upgrade for.
> 
> Like, similar 'general vehicle', but a corrupted one that performs differently.


Skullcannons 

Forgefiends

Maulerfiends

Soul Grinders


They DO have things like that. But they're chock full of demon, because that's how Chaos rolls now.


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## Brother Armiger (Mar 24, 2016)

Xabre said:


> They DO have things like that. But they're chock full of demon, because that's how Chaos rolls now.


Don't deny my dreams of a Nurgle Buttblade with a Fartcannon. You can put daemons and bad children in it for all I care, I just need this to be real.


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

Brother Armiger said:


> Don't deny my dreams of a Nurgle Buttblade with a Fartcannon. You can put daemons and bad children in it for all I care, I just need this to be real.


Does Imperial Armour 13 have chaos variants of IG/AM vehicles in it? It might, but don't quote me.


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## Brother Armiger (Mar 24, 2016)

Einherjar667 said:


> Does Imperial Armour 13 have chaos variants of IG/AM vehicles in it? It might, but don't quote me.


I'd buy it and find out but my wallet says 'no'.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

Einherjar667 said:


> Does Imperial Armour 13 have chaos variants of IG/AM vehicles in it? It might, but don't quote me.


Mostly what IA13 has is access to 'Relic' vehicles.

in other words, since Sicarians were around since the Heresy, the Traitors probably still have some they escaped with.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Chaos don't get nice toys because we won the Eye of Terror campaign when we weren't supposed to, and a bunch of Loyalist fanboys got pissed off and continue to throw a temper tantrum over it.

Face it, GW goes out of their way to screw Chaos over every chance they get, because we're the bad guys, and we're supposed to lose all the time.
We're nothing more than moustache twirling, Saturday morning cartoon villains at this point, who exist purely to be gunned by Little Timmy's amazing Spueesh Mehreeens and shout 'Curses! Foiled again!' while shaking our fist and promising to try again next weekend.

Our rules are dysfunctional, with our army being rigidly stuck within 4th/5th edition designs. We have 0 delivery systems for delivering our assault units to their targets. We have no real ranged threats that worry anyone nowadays.
Everything we can take, everyone else can get similar that's either outright better, or else far cheaper.

We have no identity whatsoever... We have Legion veterans, but no actual Legion rules.
Or else we're trying to be recently turned renegades, but who seemingly dump ALL of their newer tech at the Cadian Gate and instead pick-up nothing but Heresy-era gear.
Then we have a bunch of Dark Mechanicum creations, daemonically possessed gribblies, and mortal cultists.
It's a giant, steaming clusterfucked mess that's trying to be a bit of everything under the sun, and fails spectacularly at building any form of synergies or identity!

And then we get this middle finger... A pair of re-hashed supplements that were at best mediocre _in 6th edition_, that add nothing beyond a few haphazardly bolted on formations that fix not a single one of the plethora of serious issue Chaos suffers from.



Meanwhile, those Loyalist scum get a metric fuckton of new Psychic powers, (because apparently Mehreeens are now the true psychic master of 40k?!), a bunch of new formations + Chapter specific detachments & wargear...

The new Librarius lore is pretty much a giant "screw-you" to Daemons, with the Fortune power added in for shits and giggles, because god forbid Marines don't get re-rollable 2++ saves on their super deathstar builds.
The new Technomancy or whatever it's name is, combined with Iron Hands is like seeing what Iron Warriors should be, except on massive steroids!


I know that we're supposedly only a year away from the rumored full-on, Chaos re-boot, but at this point, after seeing Loyalists pooch literally every single toy Chaos has bar the Dinobots (which I'm sure Imperials will soon get their own versions of...), it's hard to expect anything from GW.

Odds are we'll see half our range disappear entirely, due to it all being Finecrap, our points costs get hiked by 50% across the board, and the removal of all our special rules except for Soul Blaze & Champion of Self Defeatism.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

That rant can be applied to pretty much any army that isn't Codex: Space Marines honestly.


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## Roganzar (Feb 16, 2014)

@experiment 626 Cannot disagree with any of that all I can add is a sort of Chaos Wishlist.

1 reasonable costs for everything, no reason things cost more for spiky Marines
2 Dark alliances, basically traitor guard & Dark Mechanicum allies without penalties 
3 revamped Characters, strip out the failcast and make new models for Abbadon, Ahriman, Lucius, Fabius etc. not to mention...
4 no more moustache twirling Failbbadon, Abbadon is supposed to be a threat, right? Make him one! 
5 rules for stolen & corrupted loyalist toys, I want Renegade Warbands to have the option to steal their cousins toys. Then go back and beat them with their toys. This should be a bit more expensive, reasonably, than the loyalists.
6 legion abilities, World Eaters that fight on longer, Death Guard with toxic weapons other than rusty shivs, Rubricae (Thousand Sons) that can get back up, 
That's all I can think of for my Wishlist here. Not all of it is feasible or reasonable, hence Wishlist. Still, the AoS Chaos models have been amazing and that needs to be applied the 40K Chaos as well, damnit.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

It's always amusing how Chaos players somehow thing they have a monopoly on being a shit book when Tyranids, Guard, Dark Eldar, Blood Angels and Orks are all in an equally bad place.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

MidnightSun said:


> It's always amusing how Chaos players somehow thing they have a monopoly on being a shit book when Tyranids, Guard, Dark Eldar, Blood Angels and Orks are all in an equally bad place.


 Except for the fact that when building a list purely from Codex: CSM's, they're still getting their backsides their kicked in against even the other bottom feeders, unless they play their most optimised list.

Yes, other armies have problems too. Chaos's problems however are far beyond what other armies face. The army at a conceptual level just doesn't work!
Unlike the others where their problems are simply;
1. Tyranids: require better Synapse rule & bonuses, some pts re-costing, and updated Psychic lores + Bugcurion detachment.

2. Guard: require some core rules changes to make non-skimmer vehicles relevant again, and pts adjustments across the board.

3. Dark Eldar: require some re-working of squads like Wyches, pts adjustments, and a new toy or two.

4. Orks: go back to old Mob Rule, some pts adjustments, better formation bonuses and a better Orkcurion.

5. BA's: just bring them into line with all the other updated Loyalist Marines, and add in their Gladius/Lion's Blade styled detachment.


Chaos on the other hand are still designed for a game that hasn't existed for years now! Rhino Rush close combat was bad in 5th, and is no longer even allowed by the basic rules in 7th.
Chaos are also the only army in the entire game who have not received a single new basic upgrade option since day 1 of 3rd ****ing edition!
We're still stuck with the exact same special/heavy weapons & close combat options we've had for nearly 20 years now! Everyone else though has seen their wargear continuously evolve and/or been given new toys.

Worse, Loyalists have stolen literally every unique toy Chaos ever had, bar the various daemon engines!

At this point, between the nearly unplayable rules, and the half-useless model line, GW may as well just get it over with and Squat CSM's as an actual army.


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

experiment 626 said:


> *snip*
> 
> Worse, Loyalists have stolen literally every unique toy Chaos ever had, bar the various daemon engines!
> At this point, between the nearly unplayable rules, and the half-useless model line, GW may as well just get it over with and Squat CSM's as an actual army.


I wonder if I'm the only person who doesn't like daemon engines.
They just remind me of Transformers Dinobots. For an army of Chaos, which can create the most random, absurd, grotesque and varied units, why do they want to look so conventional?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Same reason that xenos are humanoid or roughly humanoid, it's incredibly hard to sculpt random, absurd, grosque warped-by-the-mutating-entropy-of-Chaos models that don't look like dogshit.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Kharn The Complainer said:


> I wonder if I'm the only person who doesn't like daemon engines.
> They just remind me of Transformers Dinobots. For an army of Chaos, which can create the most random, absurd, grotesque and varied units, why do they want to look so conventional?


Honestly I really like the Dinobots... It's GW's asstastic paint schemes that make them look like a bunch of stupid cartoony toys.

Take the Black Legion colours for example: if you paint the skin areas with darker reds (ala BL daemon prince model), or some other darker tone, they look epic.
Giving them 'normal' flesh tones though? Dumb.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

experiment 626 said:


> Chaos on the other hand are still designed for a game that hasn't existed for years now! Rhino Rush close combat was bad in 5th, and is no longer even allowed by the basic rules in 7th.
> Chaos are also the only army in the entire game who have not received a single new basic upgrade option since day 1 of 3rd ****ing edition!
> We're still stuck with the exact same special/heavy weapons & close combat options we've had for nearly 20 years now! Everyone else though has seen their wargear continuously evolve and/or been given new toys.


This is a major component of it, I daresay. I was musing recently that what makes Chaos special is that... it has overpriced, underperforming elite infantry. And that's about it. As encapsulated by Chosen, Possessed, Cult Marines, and their practically every single special character.

Honestly I'm... checking out, a bit. I'm seeing about the same number of CSM and SM releases all at once here with this SM supplement, the only difference is... the SM formations are like "take 3+ decent units then you get to reroll to hit with your shooting and then move again after shooting" while the CSM formations are like "take half a dozen exactly pre-selected mediocre-to-poor units and they all gain Stubborn."

...and don't get me started on the new SM psychic powers.

The sheer qualitative difference, my having to scramble to patch together awkward scraps of half-arsed rules for the barest bones of synergies while SM and Eldar Tau get half a dozen of the best special rules in the game for free by stacking formations and chapter tactics and innate racial special rules, etc... chaos may get a lot of rules releases, but it doesn't help when they're 60% crap and 38%, well, I'll let Immortan Joe close out for me...


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

MidnightSun said:


> Same reason that xenos are humanoid or roughly humanoid, it's incredibly hard to sculpt random, absurd, grosque warped-by-the-mutating-entropy-of-Chaos models that don't look like dogshit.












I like how the daemonspawn look. The more tenticles the better! But I agree, even these are roughly humanoid.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

I do find it more than a little humorous however, that we Chaos players are so desperate for _ANY_ form of release at this point, that we actually get excited by a 98% re-print, 2% after-thought-at-best-new-content, of a pair of polished turds...

Hopefully these "new" (I use that word in the loosest sense) supplements don't sell at all. Otherwise, it might just convince GW that we really will settle for a turd with sprinkles on top, and they'll continue to neglect us and leave us rooted in 4th edition.


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## Tyriks (Dec 9, 2015)

I would bet that if this book doesn't sell, it will just further convince them not to invest in the army. From a business perspective, you invest more time and effort in areas that are profitable. It would make very little sense to give time to an army that players don't buy materials for.


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## Rush Darling (Apr 30, 2015)

One interesting change that's been pointed out to me is that both supplements appear to let you take relics from both the supplement and the CSM codex, whereas before I believe they were mutually exclusive.

Not going to pretend it's the best thing in the world, but I imagine you chaos types are taking what you can get at the moment.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Juggerlrd with Axe of Blind Fury and Daemonheart/Skull of Kern'gar is tantalizing, I'll admit.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Tyriks said:


> I would bet that if this book doesn't sell, it will just further convince them not to invest in the army. From a business perspective, you invest more time and effort in areas that are profitable. It would make very little sense to give time to an army that players don't buy materials for.


The one thing Chaos has going for it though, is that we're not exactly Sisters of Bitter or Dark Eldar... 

Chaos is the big bad. It's the catalyst that drives almost all of the action in 40k itself. We're not some sub faction of a greater whole, Chaos _IS_ the driving force behind everything that takes place.
The first Gods ate the Old Ones and left the galaxy such a mess, it forced the Necrons into an eons long slumber...
Slaanesh's birthing crushed the Eldar empire for all time, and doomed the galaxy's most powerful race to a slow extinction...
The Gods turned the Emperor's greatest son against him, and broke the back of the fledgling human empire...
Even the Tyranids, predators from another galaxy who've ended life on a galactic scale, can be turned into the play-things of Chaos!

GW can't simply ignore Chaos Marines or Daemons, as it would be akin to basically retconning and removing the likes of Eldar or Orks or Space Marines from the game & backstory.

The main reason for our continued saltiness however, is that despite our huge importance to the 40k universe itself, GW keeps routinely churning out blanderised crap, offering up the excuse that "Chaos is too complex".
Only to then turn around and give Loyalists literally everything that Chaos Marines actually _*had*_, alongside a million or so additional options & extra fluffy rules.

Hopefully our time does come... Sad Panda & Lady Atia have both said that next year is supposed to be our year.
However, no long time Chaos enthusiast is going to be fooled into getting their hopes up for anything more than yet another good poop chute kicking from GW, simple because we've learned over the past decade that Chaos can't have nice things, lest you upset the delicate sensibilities of the over-entitled loyalist fanboy. (remember Eye of Terror anyone?!!)


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Kharn The Complainer said:


> I wonder if I'm the only person who doesn't like daemon engines.
> They just remind me of Transformers Dinobots. For an army of Chaos, which can create the most random, absurd, grotesque and varied units, why do they want to look so conventional?


I really like daemon engines. Not the new ones gw added in the last edition though. 

Go back further at take a look at the Cannon of khorne, Cauldron of blood, blood slaughter (old and new), greater brass scorpion, decimator engine, blight drones, etc. 

Daemon engines are one of the most unique and interesting things Chaos have. I have no love for the Dinobots though, they're a little too directly animalistic.


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

Kreuger said:


> I really like daemon engines. Not the new ones gw added in the last edition though.
> 
> Go back further at take a look at the Cannon of khorne, Cauldron of blood, blood slaughter (old and new), greater brass scorpion, decimator engine, blight drones, etc.
> 
> Daemon engines are one of the most unique and interesting things Chaos have. I have no love for the Dinobots though, they're a little too directly animalistic.


Actually, you've got me. Your examples are cool I do really like blight drones. So yeah, it appears that I only hate Dinobots.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I still think that Slaanesh Lords on Steeds with Burning Brand of Skalathrax to Outflank a unit and burninate some fools is a criminally underused tactic.

Just for what that's worth.


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

That kind of thing is the only use I can see for th lords and sorcerer formation


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Kharn The Complainer said:


> Actually, you've got me. Your examples are cool I do really like blight drones. So yeah, it appears that I only hate Dinobots.


Right on! Then for today, you shall be Kharn the Affirmer.

Praise be to the dark gods.

The main problems with daemon engines in the past has been that they were almost exclusively khornate in 40k. Epic had a bunch from other gods which weren't moved to 40k including the plague tower of nurgle, silver tower and firelord of tzeentch, the questor scout titan of slaanesh. Compared to these there were 5+ khornate epic daemon engines cauldron of blood, cannon of khorne, death dealer, brass scorpion, tower of skulls, Lord of battles (now the Lord of skulls), blood reaper, and doom blaster. 



















There's a ton they could have done.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> I still think that Slaanesh Lords on Steeds with Burning Brand of Skalathrax to Outflank a unit and burninate some fools is a criminally underused tactic.
> 
> Just for what that's worth.


Yeah, that's a fun one. Then the question is whether to double down on AP3 and take advantage of that high I with a lightning claw, or to grab a power axe/fist to balance out the torrent AP3 you're already bringing for versatility. Depends on the unit you're outflanking in, I suppose.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

20 CSM with Icon of Excess, 2 Meltaguns, VotLW and Champion with Lightning Claw, because you're a real man. Lord gets a Claw because I6 is great and I couldn't tell you the last time I actually saw 2+ armour on the table other than my own Assault Terminators, which I bought, built, undercoated, fielded twice then shelved because 2+ armour isn't worth shit for dick in my meta in the current edition.

I don't know why horde CSM appeals so much to me, I just think it's really cool and better than people give it credit for.


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

You know the solution right guys? Fuck 40k and come over to 30k. We've got legion rules for everyone (well, the Thousands amongst you might have to wait until later this year, but still) a plethora of special units, dark Mechanicum and ways to add varied cultists to your lists. Plus, as the timeline progresses, you can bet there'll be plenty of that witchy-poo goodness you heretics love to go around.

Join us...join us...


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## Woodzee316 (Sep 11, 2010)

when the Thousand Sons get their place in 30k i will definately be thinking long and hard about building an army for it, especially if they have all the different rules for each of the cults. the only real thing that would stop me is the colour change as all my Thousand Sons are in post heresy blue. 

So i don't know if i want to start a whole new army (i should rephrase that, i don't Know if my wife would let me start a whole new army)LOL


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Deus Mortis said:


> You know the solution right guys? Fuck 40k and come over to 30k. We've got legion rules for everyone (well, the Thousands amongst you might have to wait until later this year, but still) a plethora of special units, dark Mechanicum and ways to add varied cultists to your lists. Plus, as the timeline progresses, you can bet there'll be plenty of that witchy-poo goodness you heretics love to go around.
> 
> Join us...join us...


I'm moving over to 30k, I've started a WE/Wb-mixed-themed Shadow Crusade-army and got units for a EC-army. F**k GW. ^^


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## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

I'm re-exploring chaos at the moment and really enjoying it so far. The Path to Glory campaign is (Age of Sigmar Style) a different way to play that is actually fun, and my 'meta' are all people who have no issues with adjusting the allies chart to make sense, such as traitor chapter type marines, traitor guard, orkish cultists etc.


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## Ravion (Nov 3, 2010)

Iraqiel said:


> I'm re-exploring chaos at the moment and really enjoying it so far. The Path to Glory campaign is (Age of Sigmar Style) a different way to play that is actually fun, and my 'meta' are all people who have no issues with adjusting the allies chart to make sense, such as traitor chapter type marines, traitor guard, orkish cultists etc.


Ah Path to Glory...... I can't wait to run that campaign in May.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

forkmaster said:


> I'm moving over to 30k, I've started a WE/Wb-mixed-themed Shadow Crusade-army and got units for a EC-army. F**k GW. ^^


Um... FW is owned by GW, so I'm not sure they'll get much of the vibe off of that one. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Um... FW is owned by GW, so I'm not sure they'll get much of the vibe off of that one.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I know but they invest more equality in their gaming as a sister-company.


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