# What are YOU doing?



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Well, what *are* you doing?

"About what?" you ask.

Why, about the new Tyranids, of course!

Everybody that hasn't been living under a rock the past few months knows that the Great Devourer is on its way to tabletops near you and is due to arrive early this month. For those of us that aren't planning to play the big nasty bugs, what are your plans to deal with all this rumored nastiness?

For those that don't keep up with the rumor mill, I'll summarize what we can expect to see.

- Cheaper Gaunts. Not too much cheaper, mind you. I'm talking about five points per model before upgrades, slightly more in the case of Hormagaunts. Anyone that's ever faced down an Imperial Guard army knows how many models one can afford to field when each man your opponent loses hurts less than it hurts you to cut your hair. Now imagine that in the place of Guardsmen, we're talking about fast moving gribblies with potent short-ranged weaponry, looking to tie your units up in close combat long enough for the more deadly fighters in the army to arrive.

- Lots of Monstrous Creatures. So many people (myself included) were under the impression that the infamous Nidzilla-style Tyranid list was nearing the end of its lifespan. Unfortunately for us, this isn't the case. While we'll probably see less Carnifexes than before, you can bet your behind that they'll be replaced by even more deadly Hive Tyrants, as well as some all new monsters in the forms of the Trygon, Mawloc, Tervigon, Tyrranofex, etc. I don't have the space to detail each of them here, but I can say that the new Tyranids are absolutely spoiled for Monstrous choices.

- Medium ones that don't suck. Yup, that's right kids. Tyranid Warriors with 3 wounds apiece (and as Troops!). Cheaper Lictors, Zoanthropes and Raveners. Basically, all the medium-sized Nids available before are back with a vengeance, and in most cases cost even less points.

So I ask you, the loyal members of Heresy. What are *you* doing to survive?

Katie D


----------



## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Well, what *are* you doing?
> 
> "About what?" you ask.
> 
> ...


Pre-ordering. :laugh:


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

It's a tricky one really.

My Eldar (Dire avenger heavy) Shouldn't suffer to much. I have enough decent anti-infatry fire-power, and multiple Catapults will harm an MC eventually. Yriel and various heavy weapons take up the role of anti-MC. I'm mobile enough to dictate how my opponent moves. So, should be ok.

My Night lords are at risk of being swamped. So the Dual lord with Twin claws may make a re-appearance. I'm not gonna bother with lash and fighting tyranid MCs head on with dual princes. Might have to dig out the handful of flamer equipped models and grab some more Berzerkers. Plenty of melta to bag a big Nid at close range and enough powerfists spread around. Again, overall problem is being swamped, so the Dakka pred may make a return too.

My Tau are Crisis suit heavy, we're talking 15 of the fuckers in 1500 points here. So not to worried overall. 8 of which have Firestorm layout, and one of my Shas'Os sports a Burst cannon and CIB. The other 5 6 Suits are geared up with Fusions or/aswell as Plasma rifles for Anti-MC. Only change I may make is to squeeze another Hammer head in and drop my Devilfish. More Fire warriors is also a necessity. Kroot will never make an appearance. as if a Nid gets within 6" then My suits and Hammers have already failed and its curtains for me.

My DE may have to recruit some more Wyches. As Incubi are overkill against to majority of Nids and to easily killed by the rest to justify there whoppng 25 points a model. Archon will be tip top at toppling MCs, as he still has his almighty 2+ inv save against them. Agonisers and Poisoned blades are already aplenty. And I've got 15 Dark lances + 3 Dizzys + 7 Splinter cannons + 7 blasters in my 2k force. May have to get out the old FW raven to harry the bigger nids, but we'll see. The fact everything in this army is mounted on some kind of flying machine means we are pretty tight against the Nid hordes.

Overall my 4 armies aren't to worried. I feel that Nob biker lists and Dual lash + 9 oblit lists may finally have an opponent they struggle against.

Space marine players shouldnt worry, as on paper, bother sternguard and LotD look very good against Nids, and it wont be long to till GW give you a new character/unit that rapes tyranids 4 times over in a minute. And of course, the brand new space puppies can just swallow any big nid/unit with that Jaws of the world wolf or whatever its called. So no space marine player needs to worry, gw will give you the advantage on a plate some how 

Another army that I dont think will struggle with the new nids is Necrons. Get 2 - 3 units of Crons, along side 1 - 2 units of Immortails all stood around a Monolith and a Lord with a Ressurection orb and watch as your undead machines scythe down anything that gets within 24". Destroyers are going to be flying murder against Nids.


----------



## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

From Tau PoV Im thinking about actually starting to test out Helios teams for real now. I have toyed with them 3 games, but Im wondering if its not worth having them as an 'El with bodyguards instead now, makes them actually hit...

A Heatwave team is also on the testing run. 2 Twin Flamers and 2 Gun Drones for 85 pts sounds like interesting to me 

Flechette Dischargers have been "close to mandatory" in my eyes a while now, I think this is the nail that seals the coffin


For my Emperors Children, well, my Noise Marines just got a lot more worth their points:biggrin:


----------



## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

If the mixed style of Nids I usually fight doesn't change too much I'll be find. Even if there aren't many more monstrous creatures, since they are going up in points, I should be able to handle Nidzilla pretty well with Tau. The marines I'm building should eat the Nid menace for breakfast with twin inked flamers and meltas.

The only thing I'm worried about is mass deep strikes as I've never faced an army with that ability to get in my face that quickly. Nids in pods and blood angels are the two armies that make me really worry.


----------



## Lord_Murdock (Jul 16, 2008)

Personally, I'm taking my lootas off the shelf, and maybe making another squad of 15. The way I see it, even a horde or Tyranids will have a hard time making it through 15-30 Deffguns and a Shokk Attack Gun, in addition to the other heavy ordnance my Orks have to offer. Really, my strategy will be to shoot them full of holes before they get to me, then unleash the (mega)nobz at whatever's left!

A good strategy? Probably not. In all seriousness, it probably won't work. But hey, I've had a lot of success with things that should have by all means been doomed to failure in the past, so I just might again.


----------



## randys_s13 (Dec 29, 2009)

Wait until people get bored of them and start playing there marines again. No but seriously I might get to play some new armies that want to get in as close and fast as I do. So basicly get stuck in and pray to khorne I do more damage.


----------



## Widowmaker666 (Jul 30, 2008)

Stocking up on pesticide k:


----------



## Devinstater (Dec 9, 2008)

Well, My tact squad loadout will change. I usualy run one Melta Tact squad, MG + MM, changing that to flamer. Might drop a Dreadnought since all MC's get melta rolls against armour and run a unit a regular Terminators w/ CML and librarian for HQ.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

If the rumours are true, then the new Gaunts are 1 point cheaper, but lose Re-roll to Wound and Move Through Cover. To me, that makes them less attractrive.

The new Montrous Creatures are all expensive, so while there may be bigger critters, I think we'll be seeing less of them in a single list and with the loss of Without Numbers, more points must be spent on Troops to get some decent scoring lists. 

I think in the current Mech enviroment, Nids might just have an edge, in that melta weapondary is not all that effective, being so short-ranged. People load up with Meltas and Plasmas over Flamers, which means that unless people change their lists out of fear of the new nids, most all-comer armies will struggle getting the kills they need on the hordes. After a while, I see a couple of flamers creeping into all-comers lists once again, creating more balanced lists.


----------



## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

Damn I've barely figured out how to beat my friends Tyranids before, now I gotta deal with new stuff that usually will be much better. :ireful2:

Well in general, I'm thinking a lot more use of Noise Marines, Chosen outflanking in Rhinos with Meltas and/or Flamers, Rhinos with Havoc Launchers, and Lesser Daemons. Beyond that the usual DP (I actually dont use Lash as much, but still a good one) and some Obliterators. Obviously putting all that together effectively in a good balance and maybe leaving some of what I had said out is a good possibility. You may ask why these selections.

*More Shots! More Shots!*
Noise Marines, chaos obviously need the shots and without knowing the new rules, I figure there is going to be some psychic power that is massively powerful like the SW one that could involve Initiative tests. In turn making the Noise Marines maybe favored a little more than Plague Marines in tournaments. IF there seems to be more spaced out troop choices, the blastmaster maybe one upgrade to leave behind. Although I've had minimal experience with it, it has really never made that big of an impact, usually scattering too far to do damage. Depending on the toughness and armour save of warriors, it still might be a good answer to Nid warrior armies. Power Fists are a must, too many MCs to not have a lot.

*Chosen, Outflanking the Infinite*
According to my Nid friend, Gaunts will always have Without Numbers rule having a troop choice consistantly spawn in the back of the Nid players spawn point after dying, its easy picking for him/her to take objectives near his/hers deployment zone. Now with outflanking chosen in a rhino (havoc launcher maybe?), that could help out with that problem. I would probably choose to kit the chosen out with all flamers and power fist or 3 flamers, 2 meltaguns and power fist for some versatility. 

*The Barrage*
In general having 4-6ish Rhinos all with Havoc Launchers will do damage even some serious if combined with Blastmaster shots on the first turn. That will help out a lot in thinning out the possible large numbers of Tyranids in the beginning turns. 

*Slowing the Mass Charge*
Lesser Daemons could be extremely helpful in tying up key enemy units before they hit yours. Getting that extra turn to shoot with any and all of your units is very important. Especially against MCs because of the Invulnerable saves. A Nid player could get extremely annoyed possibly getting their MC tied up for maybe 2 turns, giving you the extra time you need to shot at the little buggers and get ready for the big ones. 

Everything else speaks for itself, Obliterators, best heavy support choice available and DPs, maybe not exactly Lash DPs, but DPs in general.


----------



## Ryuzaki (Nov 1, 2009)

I guess I'll have to up the cheese. More lash! More Blast weapons! More tanks! I'll outnumber the numberless in cheesy rules.


----------



## buckythefly (Mar 16, 2009)

I'm going to do what I always do, Charge straight down their Tyrannid throats and and drown them in Powerklaw hits. If the dice aren't with me, I'll resort to actual strategy.


----------



## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

heavy bolters, flamers and a lucky as hell captain that refuses to die when faced with swarms of troops, and an ironclad dreadnought with lots of killy goodness


----------



## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

I'm going to start daemons and use skull taker. Bye bye monsterous creatures.


----------



## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Considering taking broadsides again for that extra monstrous creature screw you factor.
Turning my sky ray into another devilfish to go fully mobile and making each one in my list a war fish for extra gaunt killing power

I think we will be seeing a lot of tyranid warrior and MC lists so im going to be sticking with my plasma suits and maybe going for fireknives on my command. Accurate ap4 and 2 shots should real lay some hurt on any medium range creatures.

Really for me nothing has changed.... they're going to try come eat me... I'm going to run and try weaken them until i can suddenly turn round and wipe them out.

To be honest with nids concentrating fire will be the big thing for me


----------



## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

Crush them under the weight of my army, and the straight sixes I intend to roll.

Berzerkers. Wth powerfists. They can just charge with my bloodfeeder toting lord. Who's on a juggernaut. Everything else should work out fine, with the aforementioned sixes.


----------



## Arbite (Jan 1, 2010)

Flamers, flameers, flamers, flamers. 
Throw in a demolisher cannon as well.


----------



## bobss (May 18, 2008)

I myself shall be embracing the Nid release, planning a Deep Striking of Badassness force. Well.. most of the stuff shall be deep-striking, Infiltrating or Outflanking.... 

Flyrant
Ymargl Stealers
x2-3 Stealers with Broodlord
x2 Ravenors
Big unit of Gargoyles
Mawloc
Trygon Prime

Spare points loaded up onto Termagaunts, Carnies and Venomthropes as a core...

Though I agree with the current Nidzilla issue. I mean now with Warriors as core, and Carnies as squadrons its ouch....


----------



## Shadowfane (Oct 17, 2007)

Painting more gribblies for Hive Fleet Morrigan 
The other army I'm contemplating starting is a pure Khornate Daemon Force (what can I say, I prefer fluff/cohesive armies to power ones!) - not too comcerned about Nids with that army, since it doesnt matter who dies, Khorne will be pleased....


----------



## ninja skills (Aug 4, 2009)

for my deamons i think i'll be uping the flamers from 3 man to 5/6 to kill of monsterous creatures.

and skulltaker is going to have a field day with his 4+ instant death, it'll be so much fun the first time he kills a 3 man squad of 'fexs in one go :biggrinalthough my normal 'nid player probably won't run them ever again afterwards)


----------



## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

I've always tried to theme my Ultramarines with the dreaded Tyranids as an opponent in mind. I hate them. They ruin the fluff. 

I'm going to be doing what I normally do: trying, and improving. I'm going to get some plasma in for MCs, then some Terminators with a Heavy Flamer for Gaunts. Finally, a good old Whirlwind. Plus what I've already got, it should work alright, so long as I get a new Dread with an Assault Cannon.


----------



## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

I think one thing that's struck me with the new tyranid summary that I've seen is that there's going to be a ton of "shadow in the warp" in there, meaning that all psychic tests are gonna be taken on 3 dice, I think this is going to do a fairly good job of shutting down a lot of psychic powers.

Overall, I'm not too scared of the new nid list, hive tyrants are a lot less scary than they used to be, with flyrants not able to take the armour upgrade and no invulnerable saves possible.

I do think that broods of zoantropes in spores are going to be nasty as hell to face, they pretty much guarantee them getting their 3 S10 AP1 lance attacks in and vaping one of your vehicles.

Trygons also scare me lots - still trying to work out how I'm planning on taking on 2-3 of those in a list, aside from running away from them and shooting as much as I can at them!

All in all, a lot of the units that used to be awesome in the tyranid list seem to leave a lot to be desired in their new incarnation, I forsee a lot of existing nid players being very upset, I know for a fact most of my existing nid army is going to be doomed to gather dust.


----------



## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

Could the Nid release revive plasma weapons?

I don't know but I'll definatley look into getting a Celuxus.

Something that I have been thinking about anyway is the inclusion of a Librarian in my army as a matter of course. I would take him for the psychic hood more than anything. The force weapon would also help with MCs, there seems to be alot of psykers running around now and the Nid release doesn't seem to do anything about it.

That said, Psyke out Warheads for WH are going to be alot more fun when you wipe out all that Synapse.


----------



## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

Calamari, did you read my post, or have you read any of the rules for Shadow in the warp in it's new incarnation.

As I see it, it's going to do a damned good job of shutting down psykers playing vs nid armies.

Anything within 12" of any of the following will take psychic tests on 3d6, which, even if you are ld10, pretty much means odds are against you passing your psychic tests, as well as increasing your chances of perils.

Hive Tyrant
Swarmlord
Tervigon
Alpha Warriors
Zoanthrope
Warriors / Winged Warriors
plus the special new nids "characters"


----------



## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

Critta said:


> Calamari, did you read my post, or have you read any of the rules for Shadow in the warp in it's new incarnation.
> 
> As I see it, it's going to do a damned good job of shutting down psykers playing vs nid armies.


I did read it but notice hor I said "for the Psychic Hood?"

Taking psychic tests on 3D6 is a bit too risky but having the ability to shut down other psykers is always good


----------



## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

Yeah, that logic works for me to shut down some of the ton of psychic powers the nids seem to have access to now.


----------



## Ishamael (Aug 26, 2008)

What I'm rather annoyed at truly comes down to the improvements on the Zoanthropes. My Kharn army runs two Land Raiders, and I already have enough problems with Melta weaponry, but a str 10 ap 1 lance that deepstrikes with bs4? In addition, my Kibbies will still eat the little boys, but they still won't be able to hold up to Stealers, especially if each squad is toting a broodlord, but warrior squads won't be a problem with pfists in the field. 

Problem appears to be that my Zerks may not have enough attacks to check this beast, and they sure as hell don't have the ability to dakka MCs down without combining most of my shots at one thing.


----------



## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

Zoanthrope's are still glass cannons though, a full strength brood only has 6 T4 wounds, they may have a 3+ ibv save, but small army fire in sufficient quantity should easily cut them down.


----------



## Raptors8th (Jul 3, 2009)

Hey, anyone realize they're losing EW? Which means it's now easier to kill that 3 wound warrior than the old 2 wound one. And the trygon and fexes can eat force weapons. JotWW will be useful, and the demolisher cannon is looking much more attractive without that eternal warrior (especially if the Tyrants and 'gons turn out to be T5 as rumored). Flamers are nice, and my list already has a good number because ork spam is popular here. So I'm not really changing that much, maybe throw in a vindi and a RP or 2, but that's it. Wolves were _made_ for ork fighting, but it looks like they might be even better against the dinobugs.


----------



## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

I think tyrant and trygon are going to be T6 from the rumours I've heard... but yeah, loss of EW is going to really hurt a lot of the T4 stuff like lictors, zoanthropes, venomthropes and warriors.


----------



## Gigantor (Jun 21, 2009)

I'm just going to do what I always do, roll out as many leman russ MBTs as I can! Flamers & GL launchers & autocannons.

As for my crimson fists, I may pick up a couple razorbacks in place of the drop pods. MC, meet hellfire rounds... 

Failing that, finish painting my 108 gaunts. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!


----------



## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Plasma, S10 blasts, and Flamer templates in abundance, and Inq/2 Mystics to help against these landing Spore thingies....basically kill as many of them as possible before c/c.


----------



## Cannoness Katelyn (Dec 30, 2009)

Nothing differnt Ill stand back with my horde of flamer templates and have a blast!


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Ishamael said:


> What I'm rather annoyed at truly comes down to the improvements on the Zoanthropes. My Kharn army runs two Land Raiders, and I already have enough problems with Melta weaponry, but a str 10 ap 1 lance that deepstrikes with bs4? In addition, my Kibbies will still eat the little boys, but they still won't be able to hold up to Stealers, especially if each squad is toting a broodlord, but warrior squads won't be a problem with pfists in the field.


3 Zoanthropes only have a 50% chance to destroy your Land Raider. Outflanking Chosen with Meltas are more dangerous.



Raptors8th said:


> Hey, anyone realize they're losing EW? Which means it's now easier to kill that 3 wound warrior than the old 2 wound one.


Only with high strength weaponry. They are now harder to kill by small arms fire.


----------



## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

From what I've heard Shadow in the Warp is a 12" bubble of Runes of Warding. Admittedly, that is half the range as the new psychic hood and runic weapons, but it is psychic defense, which seems to be key to stopping Tyranids, especially Zoanthropes. I don't have the ability currently to field any psychic defense, but I am hoping to see some psykers coming to my FLGS sometime soon.


----------



## Ishamael (Aug 26, 2008)

Just wait until I get my Ahriman army goin Heretic. Skolls, yes it does statistically take 3 to kill one of my raiders, but the Lord of Skulls enjoys messing with me. I am making the assumption that the new Zoaps can be put in those pods and arrive via reserves.

The Warptime Aspiring Sorcerer may have a place fighting nids!


----------



## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

The only T5 models in the new Tyranid book are:
Alpha Warrior
BroodLord(who is a unit champion now like a nob)
Harpy

All other things are either T4 or 6 depending on size. I think Missile Launchers will see a huge revival. Cheap and lethal to all mid-sized bugs, and still ace against almost all of the TMCs since only the Hive Tyrant and the Tyrannofex can have 2+ save.
Battlecannons sounds like more worth it then Demolishers in my book. Cheaper and better range sounds very much like win to me 

I really like that EW is gone. If this trend keeps up there actually might be a reason to at least think about using force weapons in CC! The mid-sized bugs will still live and die by their coversave, volume of small arms fire is now a bit less lethal to them thanks to the extra wound. The trade of is ID vulnerability. Probably a slight win for them.

Psycic defence will be king against Tyranids so yea Librarians will probably see a much bigger field duty then before. I bet Tyranids will love a certain Njal Stormcaller:laugh:


I have a slight feeling that Daemonhunters will be renamed Alienhunters soon. They more and more seems like the way best bug-killers to me. Solid amount of shooting, IW ignoring shots, the best psycic hoods and lethal high WS CC options:grin:


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I'm going to do what I always do... drive around in my flash wave serpents avoiding anything that looks like a fair fight! Double Fire-Prisms solves a lot of problems in the new Nid 'Dex.


----------



## bakoren (Nov 16, 2009)

T_T no more immune to instant death! That means I'll have to actually protect my warriers.


----------



## bakoren (Nov 16, 2009)

T_T no more immune to instant death! That means I'll have to actually protect my warriers.


----------



## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Well as for controlling the Hive, I intend to run a pure Warrior force with some Zoan support as well as a more conventional list (which sadly, does include two tervigons ).

For fighting them? My Guard list will work wonderfully well. I have lots of High Strength templates for blowing away the medium sized creatures and a bucket load of flying Lascannons for the heavies. Mobile infantry with lots of low strength shots and a nice amount of Heavy Flamers should keep me safe from the tides :grin:

I'm really not worried about facing them on the board to be honest.


----------



## bobss (May 18, 2008)

What about Carnifex Squadrons?

9 of the bastards, coming at you fron different angles, biomorhps to enhance T, AS, Regen etc. Whilst Termagaunt spam is coming at you from the front with Venomthropes and Hive Guars scattered in amongst the swarms...


----------



## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

bobss said:


> What about Carnifex Squadrons?
> 
> 9 of the bastards, coming at you fron different angles, biomorhps to enhance T, AS, Regen etc.


There are no such Biomorphs. Carnifexes are Toughness 6, 4 Wound 3+ save beasties and never anything else. (Regen does exist, but that ruins my drama :grin

And Carnifexes are 160 BASE, Nine of them leaves no room for anything else in a 1500pt game. Which is the game we play around here and in the tournaments.

Regen also costs more than 20 points.

Termagants will fall to Heavy Flamers, of which I have lots


----------



## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

Well it doesn't really affect the nid force i have, will still run a fairly balanced force of a unit of everything (except the biovore cos it looks poo). Just add in some extra shiny new bugs and et voila, can't wait.


----------



## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

well, i will replace my Intates squads meltas with flamers and keep my plasma guns, replace my dreads melta with an assualt cannon.
oh and most importantly... pray i survive the first battle against the bugs.


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Ryuzaki said:


> I guess I'll have to up the cheese. More lash! More Blast weapons! More tanks! I'll outnumber the numberless in cheesy rules.


:laugh::victory:


----------



## EmbraCraig (Jan 19, 2009)

My tau aren't overly worried - might look at swapping around some battle suit weapons depending on what people start playing locally.

But most of all, I'm succumbing to temptation, and have ordered the beginning of my own nashing, biting, gribbly horde... looking forward to it already


----------



## Alexious (Apr 13, 2009)

Like the responses so far... this is my two cents worth.

Disclaimer; I am old... snappy and shake my fist at kids and scream get off my damn lawn most mornings while wearing a dressing gown while collecting the newspaper. Feel free not to take offence at my various rants on other player types and styles.


Nids in General.

I am vetran now of the 40k universe, or I like to think I am. I was there when RT was introduced and have watched and played through the various systems and editions which the nids have appeared in. I have used every army apart from dark eldar against them at one time or another, what follows are some ideas to combat nids in general and what I have found to always work. (Note, I don't always win my first battle against a nid player... but eventually the tide turns and I can whip them again and again over time).


1). Nids in general have two things going for them as an army and the theme has not changed in 4 odd editions since their rise. The first is their CC ability and secondly its the ability to get close fast. Everything else any other army should be able to beat handsdown thankyou very much. This theme or these two themes have always been the nid menance. 

1. The CC ability of nids in general and compensation strats 

a). The greatest flaw as players we make is that we make assumptions about our opponents. You have won or lost a game against most opponents at the end of the second players shooting phase generally in turn 1 of most games if you have not planned effectively and looked at the force before you.

If your facing a nid player he/she is going to try and get into CC with 80% of the forces your facing. What does your army have to counter this, is the first question you need to answer before you even consider what types of troops, elites or what "OMG MUM I NEED THAT!" speech you devise to get minatures. In my case and I run full guard infantry, my options are limited but even with this... probably the weakest army against a nid player who actually knows what he/she is doing I have options.

Flamer squads (clear them as they approach or counter after they engage)

Snipers for MC (take them down with massed sniper fire)

Board set up and placement.... I will happily show any player a better way for him or her to place their units in general. But the anti-nid general must place their forces in such a manner that they can;

1). Avoid the CC quagmire of advance, sweep, keep you from shooting. So placing those 100 guardsmen in one unit is a stupid idea when facing a genestealer army.. You need to think how the CC will go as you place. Ok, this flamer squad will sit here.... its about half a template away from these two units which are likely to be assualted in turn 2.... that means they will get to fire on that unit which is proabably going to be his XYZ unit looking at how he/she is placing. Then ask yourself is that going to handle and stem the tide? Is the unit in front of the flamer unit I am putting there far enough away so other forces dont get dragged in? You can replace the word flamer here with CC specialists, whatever... its whatever your counter force is going to be. Micro manage this to the unit level. I have for example a standard platoon of 5 tallarn squads, all with plasma guns and autocannons. When and if I face a nid army.... they will be deployed to fire effectively but also so that the supporting flamer special wpns squads are able to reach multiple units to counter attack. 

2). Shoot them to death! For me and my army this is paramount but it rings true for everything probably apart from CSM and perhaps the newer space wolves etc. Every army has troops that can shoot enmasse and take down the nids before they get close. BUT.... players dont think about where they are placing units and effectively deploying them to max the shooting potential. A nid general for most units will advance to you standardly... crossing the board. YOU need to stop him/her here if you can. I cannot tell you how often focus fire has saved me from a loss, but its the simple rule that I have always used. I focus as much fire on 1 unit as I can until its down. I don't stop when its under 50%... I keep firing until the last little nid is gone. Then I pick a new target and continue. This strategy changes somewhat with eldar, etc and mobile armies. You can still shoot him, but then its about where your moving and keeping away from the nids so you can shoot.

Getting Close fast and how to compensate.


1). Eldar are the best at this... Dark eldar probably just as good and although I rarely fight Tau they will be just as effective. Move! If your army is a mobile one, then dont let them get close... stay away.

2).For less mobile armies like my own now and others like marines you have options. Mechanized forces are best to give you the ability to move but also to compensate against fast moving units. Tie him up...... A unit of 3 sentinels will tie up nids quite well or give you another turn to shoot at least. A cheap unit is a great choice to screen yourself.... Move them forward on your first turn and watch as the nid player goes for it to clear the way... This will show you two things quickly. 1). Lets you watch what that unit has and how fast it will take you.... nid players are easy to get them to shoot their goodies in CC so you can see what they have done to a unit to make it immune or whatever to most CC strats... ie; Ok i hit the 20 conscripts with my 1900000 attacks and rolling dice now.... that should mean to you... ok thats a tough unit.... I will compensate on my next shooting phase by.... 2). Your able to move your own units to a better firing line for the next turn. ie; Ok he is assulating the scouts.... moving death company here will let me charge next turn into them.


Lastly....... Terrain management.

Nid players will attempt to stalk the board and put basically a jungle from his deployment zone all the way to yours of some type of cover.... Let a third party set it up for you always. That way its fair. And never stand or place your forces where they are unable to have a firing line that covers at least two arcs of approach if possible. That said.... I have seen some great nid armies destroyed due to the fact they appeared to always fight on a ice sheet or flat plain.... be reasonable. I roll my eyes at 90% of the terrain deployment I see at the moment and in even friendly games. It has to be fair.... it cant be a city of death style board for a standard 40k game... but it cant be a wasteland either. Use the terrain to your advantage against the nid player... make them come through a channel of massed fire whenever possible to have to touch you.

Final words.

A trick or a wild card.

Always have something wild to throw them on the defensive with a few units. It might be storm troopers landiung behind the lines... an outflanking unit, scouts... maybe even a land raider on the attack... you need to throw him/her off balance. It will also stop or could potentially stop longer range attacks getting to you. The nid player has in general only one option... going to you..... and very very few nid players will leave a unit on watch/point defence at the rear... get something nasty there yourself and rip into him in the back. Most new nid players fall squarely into this trap in their first months.... they design nasty jaws of death.... they head to you.... they forget that whats sitting in their own back line, shooters etc.... are able to be smacked about by what your going to throw at him. Get behind the carpet mass heading at you and lay waste to it. 3 stormtroopers with meltaguns will effectively wipe a heavy choice they have stalking the back of his/her army. And if it doesnt.... they have to divert troops to stop what you have done... meaning less is coming to you.


Anyway my two cents worth about nids.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

> Nids in general have two things going for them as an army and the theme has not changed in 4 odd editions since their rise. The first is their CC ability and secondly its the ability to get close fast. Everything else any other army should be able to beat handsdown thankyou very much. This theme or these two themes have always been the nid menance.


Last edition Nid CC was pretty bad, I only had 3 CC units at 1500, two of which were outflanking Genestealers for disruption, the other a Broodlord and Retinue for charging units that got close to me, the rest of my army was shooting. 

Against combat armies, I sat still and shot, which was a scary thought for my opponents. Against shooting armies I slowly advanced, bringing down key units so that my charges would be against weak units.

5th edition made Nids take a pretty big hit. However, this new Codex solves all that.


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

A note on deployment: Consider giving up the first turn if you win the roll.

Obviously this will totally depend on your style of army, but a lot of times, you will see Nid players basically arranging their army in a long line across the board. If they do this, simply clump all of your forces in one corner. Shoot the closest units to you with everything you have, and then "Walk" your firepower along their lines away from you. Everything on the wrong half of the table will take a minimum of 2 turns to reach you, easily enough to annihilate them piecemeal.

This is especially true with my Eldar, as I can then redeploy 24" as soon as he gets within spitting distance.

However if you really need that first-turn shooting phase in order to thin the numbers out, then that's your call. It's just good to be aware that winning the dice roll doesn't always mean deploying first. Of course Eldrad helps with this a lot... deploy first, then redeploy 4 units of my choice after he's placed units to deal with them! :grin:


----------



## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

Why would you ever spread your units out as a nid player? at best I keep my army in 2 parts, but spreading out my army has never done well for me.

As for the new edition, I think nid players are going to have to start playing more balanced lists with more variety, because in this edition the variety is'nt crap. No more are the days where many of the units in the dex are useless. I believe that hive guard are going to have a fun time taking down those fast vehicles, while the thropes can take out land raiders and what not. 

As for fighting nids, it seems a lot of people think that it'll be a cakewalk 
That may be fine and dandy, but I doubt it will be as easy as that (unless you are playing against newer players of course...)
nids have a lot more things to get near you faster, and you are going to want to have a unit to deal with things in cc when shit hits the fan. For tau or other cc lesser armies, I think unless you go full mech, you are going to have more troubles with the faster bugs, shooting down the masses is good and all, but you are going to have issues once they hit your firing lines.
Eldar are going to probably have a better chance at fighting them, but the psykers are going to have more issues then they had.

well thats my thoughts anyway.


----------



## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

Easy, I have Black Tempars......Enough said!


----------



## bobss (May 18, 2008)

My tactics are to have my ''staple'' units to steamroll everything, with Hive Guard protecting the rear, holding objectives and laying down supporting fire. Then Trygon followed by two waves of Ravenors, whilst Genestealers and Gargoyles outflank....


----------



## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

> My tactics are to have my ''staple'' units to steamroll everything, with Hive Guard protecting the rear, holding objectives and laying down supporting fire. Then Trygon followed by two waves of Ravenors, whilst Genestealers and Gargoyles outflank....


what staple units are you taking? I was thinking about gaunts, but i already have SO many genestealers...


----------



## bobss (May 18, 2008)

oblivion8 said:


> what staple units are you taking? I was thinking about gaunts, but i already have SO many genestealers...


2-3 blocks of Termagaunts, though I may invest in some Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs. Supported by a Tervigon, Pyrovore, Hive Guard and Venomthrope for some cover against shooting. Perhaps a Hive Tyrant with upgrades to boost ''stuff'....:laugh:

I considered Zoans, but to me they are to cheesey, and without Pods are a Lascannon Magnet.... when Id rather have some better looking, cooler yet still useful units...:mrgreen:


----------



## Arkanor (Jan 1, 2010)

oblivion8 said:


> As for fighting nids, it seems a lot of people think that it'll be a cakewalk


Have they read the leaks? It doesn't look that way at all.

Genestealers are my worry, especially the Ymgarl Stealers who can pop out of cover (of which there is much) and roll 3d6 for difficult terrain, then run and assault. That's a massive threat range that can come from any piece of cover!

If I knew someone was running Y-Stealers I'd probably just try to park tanks in the forests so they can't all come in without being too close to the tank. It's a risky shot but it can also take down the whole unit without even needing to fight.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

bobss said:


> 2-3 blocks of Termagaunts, though I may invest in some Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs. Supported by a Tervigon, Pyrovore, Hive Guard and Venomthrope for some cover against shooting. Perhaps a Hive Tyrant with upgrades to boost ''stuff'....:laugh:
> 
> I considered Zoans, but to me they are to cheesey, and without Pods are a Lascannon Magnet.... when Id rather have some better looking, cooler yet still useful units...:mrgreen:


Zoanthropes have a 3+ Inv save, they aren't Lascannon Magnets, they are Ordanance Magnets. High Strength Blast Weapons will be the death of many mid-sized creatures in the new Dex.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Just want to remind everyone that this topic is intended for discussion about how players intend to deal with imminently arriving Tyranids, not how the players of those new Tyranids intend to run their armies. Though I suppose discussing how the new Tyranids will fight other Tyranids is okay... :laugh:

Katie D


----------



## hijynx (Aug 7, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> So I ask you, the loyal members of Heresy. What are *you* doing to survive?
> 
> Katie D



Step 1) Get my wife liquored up.
Step 2) Steal her (entire) Tyranid army.
Step 3) Head for the border.
Step 4) My name is Pedro, I have never seen that woman before, your honor.

In all seriousness, I'm going to change my Melta/Melta squads to Melta/Heavy Flamer. Maybe bring a 4x flamer dominion squad in an immolator as a transport. Don't really need large squads for Divine Guidance when the AP1 isn't necessary against bugs.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

hijynx said:


> In all seriousness, I'm going to change my Melta/Melta squads to Melta/Heavy Flamer. Maybe bring a 4x flamer dominion squad in an immolator as a transport. Don't really need large squads for Divine Guidance when the AP1 isn't necessary against bugs.


Hmm, sounds good. About the only infantry the Nids have that can survive a pounding like that are Warriors and Ymgarl 'Stealers, the latter of which will probably still be mostly dead. Have you thought about Retributors with heavy bolters?

For that matter, what about the Space Marine players? Do you guys consider it worthwhile to take Devastator/Long Fang squads with heavy bolters to deal with all the little ones? How about other race's equivalents like Imperial Guard heavy weapon teams, War Walkers with scatter lasers, Lootas and the like?


----------



## hijynx (Aug 7, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Hmm, sounds good. About the only infantry the Nids have that can survive a pounding like that are Warriors and Ymgarl 'Stealers, the latter of which will probably still be mostly dead. Have you thought about Retributors with heavy bolters?


I take a full (10) squad of Retributors with heavy bolters and a imagifer in every list I make, that + 2 exorcists are my heavy choices. So that won't be changing any time soon.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Sounds good. Accurate heavy bolter fire is really annoying for the little Tyranids... just ask the 20 Gaunts I gunned down with my two Baal Predators.


----------



## hijynx (Aug 7, 2009)

I played 1000 point tyranid list tonight (local store got a pre-release copy), just threw together 3 squads of genestealers w/broodlord upgrades and a Swarmlord. The broodlord can reduce enemy leadership by 1 to units within 12", and it's cumulative, at one point my opponents guard squad was -3 leadership, which was deadly when he had to roll snake eyes on his morale checks after losing combat.

ANTI-Tyranid tactics I'd say psychic hoods and similar items are going to become much more useful than they already are.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Missile Launchers will be better than Heavy Bolters. You should get more hits at one point lower strength. It also gives versatilty to deal with Montrous Creatures. Genestealers die to bolter fire easily, now that they have taken away the 4+ save 

EDIT: I recall the Ld Negative NOT stacking.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Missile Launchers will be better than Heavy Bolters. You should get more hits at one point lower strength. It also gives versatilty to deal with Montrous Creatures. Genestealers die to bolter fire easily, now that they have taken away the 4+ save


Agreed up to a point. Missile launchers can miss easily enough if the template scatters, whereas a heavy bolter will reliably dish out two hits per turn and wound Gaunts/Stealers on a 2+/3+. There's also the cost of the weapons in question to factor in, as well as availability. Heavy bolters are available on many vehicles as sponsons or turrets, whereas missile launchers are only found on infantry and Land Speeders. I suppose a mix of both weapons will be needed at the end of the day, along with stuff like lascannons and all that other jazz.


----------



## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

As a Chaos player fond of using cult troops, I'm fairly confident I can take them on, especially if I outfit my Plague marines with a flamer/melta combination. Beyond that I tend to run two Daemon princes (one of which is going to be a Khorne DP. Yes I know most people don't rate them, but I like the idea of a pure combat DP), so they can handle the big hitters. Add in Defilers and Autocannon Predators, along with possibly the odd unit of Thousand Sons and I should be set.


----------



## jimbob1254 (Apr 22, 2009)

as a new black templars player i will EC with destroy the witch to stop pesky physic powers
and cheesy chaplin and heavy bolters, flamers.
For guardsmen heavy bolters and maybe vet squad with 2 flamers and hv flamer and heavy bolter


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

For me, I'm swapping out the Assault Squad that I use as Troops in my Blood Angels army for a second Tactical Squads, as I feel I'm going to need the bolters to thin out the hordes of Gaunts and Genestealers rushing my lines. The additional meltagun and missile launcher will be helpful for dealing with Monstrous Creatures and things like Zoanthropes and Warriors, too.


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Honestly I see Slannesh Theme List with Oblits doing real well. 

Dual Lash Princes will be perfect since Nids have no Mech at all, Squads of Carnies can be toss aside.

Units of Noise Marines with 5 Blasters, a Blast master, and Champ with Power weapon will rock the scene with 15 strength 4 shots at 24", a strength 8 Blast at 36", and then a Int 5 assault with PW Champ. Its going to kill entire squads of Warriors, Gaunts, and Stealers.

Oblits are key here as there Plasma Cannons will kill whole squads of, well, anything. 

Also another nasty squad will be 5 Termies. 4 with Combi Flamers and 1 with Heavy Flamer and either MoK or MoS. Now you can DS behind a Gibbly squad and toast the whole squad in turn one.

I for one am not worried and fell prepared. Up the Cheese please.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> Honestly I see Slannesh Theme List with Oblits doing real well.
> 
> Dual Lash Princes will be perfect since Nids have no Mech at all, Squads of Carnies can be toss aside.
> 
> ...


So long as you remember Lash only has a 50/50 chance of working when you have Shadow in the Warp affecting him, and that your chance of perils will jump to 1/7 (which means your Daemon Prince has alomst a 50/50 chance of taking a wound).


----------



## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> So long as you remember Lash only has a 50/50 chance of working when you have Shadow in the Warp affecting him, and that your chance of perils will jump to 1/7 (which means your Daemon Prince has alomst a 50/50 chance of taking a wound).


From what I've heard, shadows of the warp will only work within a 12" range, so it won't be much of a problem for a winged prince to bypass.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Its still something to consider, its only 6" less than Lash isn't it?


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Its still something to consider, its only 6" less than Lash isn't it?


12", actually.


----------



## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Autocannons are suppossed to be good against Tyranids right?


----------



## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

Well the next thing I'm gonna buy is the CSM Battleforce + a pack of Sonic Weapons, this will give me a squad of 5(+1 from an old box) Noise Marines with 5 sonic blasters and a blastmaster, a squad of CSM with 2 meltaguns in Rhino to quickly kill Tervigons/Carnifexes and a squad of Khorne Zerkers to assault everything foolish enough to come close...and, well, the possessed with IoS may be useful too, but their role will depend on what they roll at the beginning of the game. 

In addition to that, I already have a Dakka Pred, 3 Oblits and a few CSM squads, and i can build a squad of havocs with 4 lascannons for 2000+ point games with lots of MCs


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> 12", actually.


My bad, looks like Shadow in the Warp isn't all that crash hot


----------



## edd_thereaper (Oct 21, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> So I ask you, the loyal members of Heresy. What are *you* doing to survive?
> 
> Katie D


First off i'm thinking about using vulkan he'stan as my genral to make as my flamers, heavy flamers, meltaguns and multi meltas twin linked which will make killing the little gaunts and the larger monsters slightly easier. Making my thunder hammers master crafted is another nice addition too. 

I will be taking a few more flamers to take advantage of vulkan's special rules . I'm not quite sure about this but i was also thinking of taking a thunderfire cannon as slowing the horde down or denying them cover saves could prove vital with a weapon thats heavy 4 blast. 

As for devestator squads i may field one with heavy bolters but thats still to be decided

cheers

edd


----------



## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> Honestly I see Slannesh Theme List with Oblits doing real well...
> Units of Noise Marines with 5 Blasters, a Blast master, and Champ with Power weapon will rock the scene with 15 strength 4 shots at 24", a strength 8 Blast at 36", and then a Int 5 assault with PW Champ. Its going to kill entire squads of Warriors, Gaunts, and Stealers...


Indeed it will, Im defo going to "surprise dust of mine" for a game for the heck of it  
I do advice that you either have a BlasterMaster *or* an Asp w Doom Siren+PW in the units. Its too expensive to give that to all units, give all specific tasks instead:wink:



Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> My bad, looks like Shadow in the Warp isn't all that crash hot


As long as the Psyker has a way of moving 12" its hard to make it effective the first 2 critical turns if the opponent has the first turn. After that the Shadow will descend on the crucial parts of the battlefield for sure:grin:

Shadow in the Warp does however severely limit the usage of psycic powers against the Tyranids themselves. For example it will generally be 50/50 to actually manage to ID things with Force Weapons against Tyranids, so losing EW wont be such a fuss for the MCs anyway:read:


----------



## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> My bad, looks like Shadow in the Warp isn't all that crash hot


I kind of hate that it makes lash becomes even more effective compared to other chaos choices, seeing as almost all the other powers have to be closer to actually work, or aren't that good against 'nids. Warptime and winds of chaos won't be such a good choice against them any more...


----------



## Arkanor (Jan 1, 2010)

I think for Space Marines Sternguard vets are going to get even better than they are. Having Hellfire shells to deal with MC's, Kraken bolts to take Warriors and Dragonfires to handle gaunts will make them extremely useful.


----------



## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

I am thinking about just buying the new codex just to study the 'nids. I happen to have a lot of fun just researching armies sometimes although it is more fun to play.


----------



## flankman (Jan 26, 2009)

with my chaos i always want to field a 20 man footslogger squad with either nurgle/slanesh or even khorn and bolter down what ever is coming to me then win in CC from crap loads of power arrmored fighters

and to the one who said auto cannons will be good i kindof disagree now that theres no eternal warrior yet they all have t4 but its still reliable wounds


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

titan11 said:


> I am thinking about just buying the new codex just to study the 'nids. I happen to have a lot of fun just researching armies sometimes although it is more fun to play.


Yeah man. :good: It's a great way to improve at the game. Knowing your opponent's Codex as well or better than him gives you a gigantic advantage in game. There's still no substitute for real experience though.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Yeah man. :good: It's a great way to improve at the game. Knowing your opponent's Codex as well or better than him gives you a gigantic advantage in game. There's still no substitute for real experience though.


Aye, you can tell when your playing a player doesn't know anything about your army. It's fun to correct your opponent on the rules in his army too


----------



## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I think i will buy some. I have a nid force already but rarely use it. Will have to change that. As for combating them, i think there will be a lot of first rank fire second rank fire from my 300 gaurdsmen, lots of heavy bolter teams and I need a hellhound.


----------



## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Will power weapons be sufficient against all Nids, or are Powerfists a better choice for Carnifexs/Trygons etc?


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

The Sullen One said:


> Will power weapons be sufficient against all Nids, or are Powerfists a better choice for Carnifexs/Trygons etc?


I'd think the fist would be a better choice since there are so few targets that a power weapon is effective against. There's no need to ignore armor saves against a bunch of Gaunts or Genestealers, and you'll struggle immensely to wound Monstrous Creatures. The fist is good for instant-killing the medium sized critters like Warriors and Raveners and makes wounding Monstrous Creatures easy.


----------



## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm seriously contemplating hiding under a rock until it's my turn for a new codex. 

If that's not an option, then with my sisters, I'll be adding two exorcists to my force, or if I'm stayign with my non-vehicle theme, a squad of retributors with 4 multi-melta's, that should help me get some of the big stuff, while my girls burn the rest.


----------



## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> I'd think the fist would be a better choice since there are so few targets that a power weapon is effective against. There's no need to ignore armor saves against a bunch of Gaunts or Genestealers, and you'll struggle immensely to wound Monstrous Creatures. The fist is good for instant-killing the medium sized critters like Warriors and Raveners and makes wounding Monstrous Creatures easy.


Thanks for that Katie, are power weapons good for anything, beyond adding a bit of variety to models?


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

The Sullen One said:


> Thanks for that Katie, are power weapons good for anything, beyond adding a bit of variety to models?


Against Tyranids? Not so much. Against some armies they're great. Necrons, Space Marines, Daemonhunters, even some Ork units all really suffer against power weapons. The thing with power weapons is that they're not quite as versatile as a fist is, since the targets that they're effective against consist basically of "heavily armored infantry" and little else. But that's really another topic.


----------



## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

I think obliterators will really come in to their own, if I have 9 of them, then at close range I can knock down a lot of hive tyrant with TL plasma think about it...

18 shots, 16.2 hits: 10 wounds, haha death

I will respond to their cheesy army, with a cheesy army of my own.


----------



## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

NagashKhemmler said:


> I think obliterators will really come in to their own, if I have 9 of them, then at close range I can knock down a lot of hive tyrant with TL plasma think about it...
> 
> 18 shots, 16.2 hits: 10 wounds, haha death
> 
> I will respond to their cheesy army, with a cheesy army of my own.


yeah... but on the other hand, those 9 oblits cost you nearly 700 points, and his guy cost about 200. And then they eat you in combat.

Still, if you want cheese, the old twin lash list works as well as ever against 'nids, and shadows of the warp has a short enough range that you should usually be able to find somewhere out of it's clutches.

For Tzeenchian Princes though, things have just gotten a little bit harder...

However, Typhus remains the number 1 nid killing machine. He has something for taking down small stuff (nurgles rot) something for hurting big/heavily armoured stuff (winds of chaos), both unaffected by Shadows of the Warp, and in combat he has 3+d6 poisoned attacks with a force weapon - insta-killing those big things has never been so easy. Assuming he doesn't roll a 1 for his demon weapon, he should be able to take down a Trygon a turn (usually killing them before getting hit), and he's pretty much untouchable to the small stuff with T5, terminator armour, FNP and 4 wounds.


----------



## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

After some ridiculous amount of brainstorming, I decided to solve this new infestation problem in your typcal old Word Bearer way: 2xVindies, lots of Flamers, a full squad of Oblits, and two guys who keep talking 'till even the nids loose their minds (AKA Lash). Or maybe a combined Emperor's Children-Word Bearer effort might send them back to nom on the Imperials instead (less Flamers but more Sonic Blasters and Blastmasters).


----------



## SHarrington (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm not convinced Lash is going to be all that effective.

I think most people that have read it, would agree, there is a huge emphasis in the new Codex on non-standard deployment.
Deep Striking/Mycetic Spore Pods/Outflanking are available to a large majority of the units. That kind of "In Your Face" deployment options can really minimize the effectiveness of lash.

IMHO.


----------



## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

SHarrington said:


> I'm not convinced Lash is going to be all that effective.
> 
> I think most people that have read it, would agree, there is a huge emphasis in the new Codex on non-standard deployment.
> Deep Striking/Mycetic Spore Pods/Outflanking are available to a large majority of the units. That kind of "In Your Face" deployment options can really minimize the effectiveness of lash.
> ...


You do have a point there, but its not as dire as it seems. You see, Princes fly 12" then Lash from 24" at most. Now, you'd have to be right next to a Synapse Creature to remain within the Shadow, or your opponent was brilliant and managed to cover all your escape routes with auras of several Synapse Creatures. But then you'll have to be brilliant (and lucky) to get out of this mess (for instance, you move toward the one that you can surely eliminate, then cast Lash to send the other two away).


----------

