# On the Use of Magic



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Hi there!

This is a thread designed to examine the Lores of Magic in 8th Edition. Feel free to suggest silly combos, share your ideas on your army-specific Lores, and which armies would benefit most from certain lores over others. Just be careful not to post too much rules text!

Lore of Fire - The Wind of Aqshy

Overall, a very middle-of-the-road lore. Everything does damage, so there are no “useless” spells per se, but it tends to be outshone by lores with more utility.

Lore Attribute: Kindleflame. A nice way to make sure that low-level wizards reach the casting value, but I’m not convinced it’ll help them get their spells off against a higher level dispeller. Also requires either multiple Fire Wizards or multiple casts, and I think there are better choices for a high level wizard.

Special mentions

*Cascading Fire Cloak*: For such a stupidly low casting cost, this is a very good spell. I’d happily try to sneak it in as your last cast of the turn on one dice, in the hopes that your opponent spent all his dispel dice on bigger spells.

*Fulminating Flame Cage*: High casting cost for a minimal initial effect means that if cast on a bad target, it’ll be a waste of dice. However if you pick a good target, you can seriously ruin that units day. Pick something that you know wants to flee as a charge reaction, reform, march or charge and you’ll be fine. Warhammer is a game of movement, and if you can interfere with your opponents then you should gain a significant advantage (as we saw last edition with march blocking).

*The Lore of Fire benefits armies with little ranged firepower in order to get rid of annoying things like Wraiths, Eagles, Skirmishers and Fast Cav.*



Lore of Metal - The Wind of Chamon

Lore of choice against Warriors of Chaos, or if you know your opponent loves his heavy cavalry. Also a nice selection of (de)buff spells.

Lore Attribute: Killing 40pt knights with no save on a 2+ is really really nasty. Obviously worse against goblins or the like. I’ll be interested to see how many people take it in all-comers lists, as it’s power waxes and wanes depending on context.

Special Mentions

*Final Transmutation:* Potentially the most devastating “6” spell out of all the Lores, due to not having to make a characteristic test or use a template, somewhat ironic that the entire Lore is dependant on context, apart from this one which goes “FFFFUUUUUUU!!!” equally to everyone.

*Blades of Aiban*: Incredibly powerful in terms of the power granted vs casting cost. +1 to hit AND Armour piercing is rather sexy, making most units hit on 3s vs most opponents.

*The Lore of Metal benefits anyone planning to fight Chaos Warriors. I'm not sure if that was the intent, or just the way it turned out. Anyway...*



Lore of Shadow - The Wind of Ulgu

One of my personal favourites, it makes me wish I could take it AND Mark of Tzeentch for the +1 Cast bonus. Oh well. The direct damage spells are too unreliable to be great, but the debuffs are lovely. A good choice to support the poor-to-medium infantry in your army (bring them down to your level!). It also synergises well with itself (and Purple Sun!).

Attribute: The character swapping is nice, but apart from going “bwahahaha” as you swap in your tooled out Lord and save your Wizard from combat, I can’t see a good tactical use for it.

Special Mentions

*Melkoth’s Mystifying Miasma*: Possibly my favourite signature spell, it has a 48” range for a 5+ casting cost (which is amazing) and has great versatility. If it shoots, go after BS. If it fights, go after WS or I. If it’s a Dwarf, go after M and laugh as they fail to do anything except charge.

*Okkam’s Mindrazor*: Nothing like hitting people with S7 skaven! Makes every single unit in your army a potential killer-unit-of-death. If you get this off the turn before your opponent is due to charge, he’ll have some very hard decisions to make. Best used on units who didn’t buy expensive weapon options!

*The Lore of Shadow benefits anyone with weakish infantry, or alternatively anyone fighting very strong infantry like Elves or Chaos/Daemons.*



Lore of Beasts - The Wind of Ghur

A very good “Buff” lore, especially if you expect to fight a lot of challenges. Access to an auto-hitting bolt thrower is often overlooked, but shouldn’t be.

Attribute: Not sure how much this’ll affect anything unless you play with Beastmen. Maybe Brets might like it too.

Special Mentions

*Wyssan’s Wildform*: One of the highest difficulty signature spells, but oh-so worth it. +1 S and T to a unit of your choice either makes a mediocre unit good or a strong unit very silly indeed. There’s a reason they don’t let Warriors of Chaos anywhere near this lore.

*Transformation of Kadon*: The “ooh, ahh” spell of the new edition (in my local group, anyway). I’ve played against it a few times and it hasn’t actually made much difference, because it’s always fought in a challenge. Yes, it will kill a unit champion, but that doesn’t help when you’re losing the combat by lots in the first place. Potentially devastating though, it would be nice to see if it’s worth going for the lower casting cost. I’m also waiting for a 20+ Cast dragon get hit by Purple Sun and die due to his I1...

*The Lore of Beasts benefits anyone who wants an excuse to use a huge dragon model. Oh, and who likes Characters with ridiculous statlines.*



Lore of Heavens - The Wind of Azyr

A strangely underwhelming lore, it nonetheless has a decent mix of damage, buffs and debuffs. It just seems that other lores can do the individual jobs better. If you like flexibility, I guess this Lore might be a go-to for you.

Attribute: Very underwhelming. Hysterical against those bastard skink/Tomb King priests but otherwise probably not all that useful.

Special Mentions

*Wind Blast*: Now this intrigued me when I first saw it, but I still don’t have a clear idea of the tactical options. The “must be moved directly away from the caster” is a pain in the proverbial, but I guess shoving opponents in the direction of your choice would be a bit too good. Amusing to push a War machine off a hill though.

*Curse of the Midnight Wind*: Irreplaceable against Khorne Daemons (killing blow) and Witch Elves (poison), and still good against everything else (especially when the enemy is rolling lots of dice). I think the debuffs in Shadow do a better job though.

*The Lore of Heavens benefits Gunlines with S6 damage spells (in case bow/gunfire isn't enough), rerolls to hit and wound and the Comet (just drop it right in the middle of the shortest route to your lines).*



Lore of Light - The Wind of Hysh

Light on damage spells (ah-hahaha) but oh so sickeningly good buffs makes this a godsend for Deathstar units and generally weak horde units alike. Competes with Life though, so we’ll see which one people prefer.

Attribute: No effect except against 3 armies, and even then only on 3 of the spells. Bad for general use. If you’re planning games in advance against VCs though...

Special Mentions

*Birona’s Timewarp*: Wow. Words fail to describe the awesomeness. Double movement and +1 Attack and ASF. Gibber. Can you imagine a unit of Chaos Knights with that? Pity it can’t happen. Cross your fingers for the next army book release. Combine with the Speed of Light to make your totally crap unit suddenly deal death to everything. Funny for hiding your flying unit behind some terrain turn one and then hitting their war machines on turn two while giving no opportunity for them to inflict damage on you.

*Light of Battle*: Another overlooked spell, it makes a unit of your choice unbreakable, therefore so as long as you have 1 guy left, you can tie up his death star unit as long as you like. Also good if one of your important units fails a critical panic/terror test (you didn’t take a BSB, did you?).

*The Lore of Light benefits anyone with a Death Star unit that already has sufficient defences, and needs some ramped up killing power. Also the Net is very good if you know your opponent uses Light Cavalry (who like to move, shoot and flee).*



Lore of Life - The Wind of Ghyran

5 seperate augment spells should tell you what this lore does, and boy does it do it well. Generally defensive where Light is offensive, it still has major power behind it.

Attribute: Restoring wounds is often overlooked, but can be very good for either a Lord on a big mount of death or your rare choices. Keep your wizard near either and combine with regrowth to make a unit nigh on invulnerable.

Special mentions

*Throne of Vines*: I love this spell, both for the in-game effects and the idea behind it. It has such flavour. The fact that it makes Life’s already solid spells into overpowered buffs of doom is entirely beside the point. The only downside is that it’s a Remains in Play spell and only casts on an 8+, allowing a good caster to dispel it on 1-2 dice in his turn. Worth it though.

*Dwellers Below*: Another “characteristic test or die” spell, this one is actually not one of my favourites due to it being on Strength, which is a generally high stat (and difficult to modify) and only having a 12” range isn’t very impressive. However being able to increase it to 24” for a relatively tiny increase in casting cost makes it a very powerful addition. Overall I prefer the much cheaper Black Horror from the Dark Elf book (you gain 6" of range for a lower casting cost, and the difference between a Large Template and "whole unit" is normally pretty small).

*The Lore of Life benefits anyone with good monsters/multi-wound models or infantry that they want to protect.*



Lore of Death - The Wind of Shyish

The final word in character sniping, the lore of death also includes two nasty hexes and a very shiny (if unreliable) magical vortex of mass killy death.

Attribute: Now, if only this lore had a decent magic missile... wait, that’s probably why it doesn’t... if you get a good purple sun hit off, you can probably cast every spell you have. Nuff said.

Special Mentions

*Leech/Caress/Fate*: I’ll cover all of these because they all basically do the same thing. Kill big nasty combat characters/monsters before they reach you. The downside of all of them is their 12” ranges, leaving you a very small window to snipe in. If you don’t 1-shot the gribbly thing, you’re not going to get another chance. The option to extend the first two to 24” is nice, but means that a level 2 is not going to reliably get them off. Still, nothing better than Mind Warring a Hydra to death. Another problem is that your target gets Ward Saves, I expect this Lore to wax and wane depending on how much your local players protect their characters – if you take this for a few games and still no-one buys Magic Res then Darwin says they deserve everything they get!

*Doom and Darkness*: A very nice way to make Terror... well... terrifying again. Even with rerolls from a BSB, he’s not going to be passing many Ld 4-5 tests. The fact that you can cast it into combat means you can swing a close thing into a crushing rout for a measly 10+ to cast. Worth it, in my book.

*The Lore of Death benefits anyone who has little answer to big combat nasties like Shaggoths, Stegadons, Hydras etc or nasty characters (especially silly wizards or BSBs who are traditionally less well protected). Hysterical vs Ogres if you can get Purple Sun.*


=================================================================================================


Warriors of Chaos: Tzeentch

No attribute for these, so I'll pick out my three favourite spells from each lore! We also benefit from very low average casting costs, the highest being 15+ compared to 25+ in the new Lores.

*Pandaemonium*: Lovely spell. Forces the opponent to waste 2 dice dispelling it or risk miscasts every time he rolls more than 1 die to cast. The Ld removal is also very useful in this new edition of BSBs and Stubborn General's Leadership check. Especially funny if playing against Trolls or other Stupid creatures that normally depend on being near a general to pass psychology tests.

*Treason of Tzeentch*: Will generally kill about a quarter of the unit you aim it at (4s to hit, 4s/3s to wound, negligible save) which is really rather good for a 9+ spell (that's an even odds 1-dice spell for a Tzeentch Level 4!). Obviously best used on big units of Halberdiers or equivalent, but also works efficiently on large archer units due to lack of armour.

*Infernal Gateway*: Honestly, who doesn't like this spell? Well... anyone who plays against it I guess. In the new editions I've had it remove 2 complete units - 50 Bloodletters with Skulltaker and a Herald and also 40 Swordsmen with a BSB, General and a Wizard with an active Kadon transformation going. Works very well if your opponents love their Horde units! Easily cast on 3 dice for a Tzeentch Lord, you get a lot of bang for your buck even if you don't get the silly result - averaging 7 S7 hits on a unit is no picnic for them either.

Warriors of Chaos: Nurgle

Even more cheap than our other Lores, a Level 4 Nurgle caster can easily expect to try casting all 4 spells per turn even without bonus power dice.

*Magnificent Buboes*: Three wonderful things about this one. First, a 24" range means you can start casting on turn 1. Second, it's a guaranteed wound, something that's rather rare in this game. Third, it can be cast into combat. All for a measly 5+. Extremely good cost/benefit there.

*Plague Squall*: Significant improvements i nthe new edition makes this much more viable than previously. No guess range, S1 being able to hurt anything, and lack of partials all combine to make the large template actually quite scary. Still scatters, and make sure that the caster is in a unit of Nurgle Warriors, but all things considered it's been made much better.

*Curse of the Leper*: Great for sneaking up with the Lore of Shadow combo when your opponent isn't paying attention and removing an entire unit in one phase! Will only work once though before they get wise to it. Even if you can't kill a whole unit in one turn, it's a very foolish opponent who lets it stay on longer than necessary (although I have seen people forget about it, to their regret). Not a bad spell, just a little underpowered compared to the new Shadow.

Warriors of Chaos: Slaanesh

Unfortunately the weakest of the Chaos Lores, Slaanesh suffered as we moved into the new ruleset even more than the others, making it rather underwhelming until we get a new book.

*Hysterical Frenzy*: Nice if you want to have access to Frenzy without painting your whole army red, but not nearly so good now that you can't force your opponent to make a Frenzy charge against your Doggies or Marauder Cav.

*Titillating Delusions*: One of the spells I'd really love to use, but can't quite justify dropping Tzeentch for. Nothing like making a Deathstar unit wheel 70 degrees and present you with a beautiful flank charge. On the other hand, it says "must move as fast as possible" so you can also run someone's cavalry through a forest taking dangerous terrain tests all day.

*Ecstatic Seizures*: In addition to the amusing mental image of making an Orc orgasm til he dies, this is better than Dwellers below because it is a 24" range for a 12+ cast value (as opposed to 21+), but it's worse because it doesn't instant-kill multi wound models. I'll leave it up to you to weigh up the pros and cons!



Aramoro said:


> *Daemon Lore of Tzeentch*
> 
> This is a very shooty Spell lore with 3 Magic Missiles and 1 Direct Damage. Unfortunately the ranges are very limited meaning you're going to have to get into harms way with them. The Magic Missiles themselves are very nice, doing significant damage for relatively low casting Values. Special mention goes to three spells.
> 
> ...





Masked Jackal said:


> _The Dark lore_
> 
> _General Tactics_
> The Dark Lore is, first and foremost, a generalist lore. If you only have one wizard, or are unsure who you'll face up against, this lore is a good choice. It provides a good mixture of utility and damage-dealing, sometimes combining both at once, with low casting values that allows a level 4 to cast optimally on two dice per spell! This lore also combines well with the Sacrificial Dagger on a level 4, as you can cast most of the spells on one dice and use the Dagger to save you if you fail.
> ...





rodmillard said:


> _Lore Selection_
> 
> High magic is nice (and if you are only running one mage I would say take it every time, unless you're using Teclis). But one of the biggest strengths the high elves have is in the range of lores they can choose from. We have access to all the rulebook lores, plus one of our own. There aren't many really nasty synergies with the rulebook lores, but the beauty of the high magic list is that it covers most of the bases - if you are taking multiple mages, you can give your high mage the seerstaff and then tailor your high spells to cover the weaknesses in your other lore(s). I tend to run a dragon mage and a high mage, so my high mage takes buffs and hexes leaving direct damage/missile spells to the dragon mage. Conversely, I know a few players who take an archmage with life and then use their high mage for offense.
> 
> ...


*Silly Combo Section!!*

Melkoth’s Miasma [Lore of Shadow] targeting Initiative + Purple Sun [Lore of Death]/Pit of Shades [Lore of Shadow]/Penumbral Pendulum [Lore of Shadow]

Enfeebling Foe [Lore of Shadow] + Dwellers Below [Lore of Life]

Enfeebling Foe [Lore of Shadow] + Caress of Laniph [Lore of Death]

The Withering [Lore of Shadow] + Fate of Bjuna [Lore of Death]

Fulminating Flame Cage [Lore of Fire] + Wind Blast [Lore of Heavens]

Doom and Darkness [Lore of Death] + Spirit Leech [Lore of Death]

Doom and Darkness [Lore of Death] + Final Transmutation [Lore of Metal]

Transformation of Kadon [Lore of Beasts] + Savage Beast of Horros [Lore of Beasts]

Iceshard Blizzard [Lore of Heavens]/Curse of Anraheir [Lore of Beasts]/ Melkoth’s Miasma [Lore of Shadow] targeting BS + Pha’s Protection [Lore of Light]

Enfeebling Foe [Lore of Shadow]/The Withering [Lore of Shadow] + Curse of the Leper [WoC: Lore of Nurgle]

Doom and Darkness [Lore of Death] + Baleful Transmogrification [WoC: Lore of Tzeentch]

Doom and Darkness [Lore of Death] + Aura of Acquiescence [WoC: Lore of Slaanesh]

The Withering [Lore of Shadow] + Ecstatic Seizures [WoC: Lore of Slaanesh]



Masked Jackal said:


> Melkoths Mystifying Miasma [Lore of Shadow] targeting WS / The Withering [Lore of Shadow] + Bladewind [Dark Magic]
> 
> The Withering [Lore of Shadow] + Soul-Stealer [Dark Magic]
> 
> ...



More will be added if people suggest others!

Feel free to add more or ask questions! :victory:


----------



## Drax (Sep 19, 2007)

good run down sethis, many thanks


----------



## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Great summary...a lot of people have trouble grasping the bigger picture when looking at these spells. Have some rep for this one brosef!


----------



## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Very helpful.


----------



## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

Nice summary. Thanks!


----------



## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

For the combos, stuff for the Dark lore.
1. Melkoths Mystifying Miasma/The Withering + Bladewind (3d6 attacks is nice, but combining these two can boost Bladewind to pretty good levels. Not a super-winner combination, but one to be considered.)

2. The Withering + Soul-Stealer (Pretty obvious. S2 hit on everyone in the unit once they're down to T 1 or 2? Oh yes.)

3. The Enfeebling Foe + Black Horror (Can do silly amounts of damage when everybody's suddenly taking strength tests requiring 1's or 2's to pass.)

4. Not a spell, but Supreme Sorceress with Sacrificial Dagger, Lore of Death, and using Power of Darkness can put out more power dice than anything else in the game most likely.


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Yeah, there's a reason my Dark Elf army runs a Level 4 with Shadow and a Level 2 with Dark/Death magic... some very good synergy between them.


----------



## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

This info is priceless! Could you perhaps do the same with the other spell lores? You play WoC too just like me *wink-wink* nah, what opportunism are you talking about? I'm just curious! :laugh:


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Your will be done! I'll write up WoC Lores tonight. If anyone wants to summarise their army-specific lores in a similar format then I'll quote you into the main post, so people don't have to read the entire thread. k:


----------



## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Just looked through my magic cards for a few more combos, feel free to add these to my earlier contribution.

5. Flaming Sword of Rhuin + Word of Pain (Makes your guys hit on 2's with rerolls in close-combat, depending on who you're facing, and how long the combat is.

6. Okkams Mindrazor + Word of Pain (Low casting value of Word of Pain means you can practically cast it as an afterthought after getting off Okkams, and it practically guarantees a won combat more than any other buff/hex combo I know of.)

7. Enchanted Blades of Aiban + Word of Pain (See 5, but better.)

Perhaps not as good as the ones I came up with before, but here they are.


----------



## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Which lore does Word of Pain belong to? Not the 8 core lores, unless I'm blind (which could easily be the case, had a series of dick 1 vs 5 runs against CPU in DotA and I'm about to go Khorne).


----------



## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Khorothis said:


> Which lore does Word of Pain belong to? Not the 8 core lores, unless I'm blind (which could easily be the case, had a series of dick 1 vs 5 runs against CPU in DotA and I'm about to go Khorne).


My post is a continuation of my previous one, looking for combos with the Dark Elf lore.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Treeman Ancient, Spellweaver with Calaingors Stave, Tree singing, and Spellsinger/Spellweaver with Throne of Vines and the spell causing hits in a wood [Life] - 6 Casts of Treesinging can get a wood potentially 28 Inches across the board. Place that in front of a combat unit - they then have to trudge through that wood - next turn - 6 Castings of Treesinging = 6D6 S5 hits, Throne of Vines + Woods damage spell = 2D6 S6 hits, and Strangleroot over 2 turns = potential 10 S4 hits, potential 10 S5 hits the next turn.

Pandaemonium [Lore of Tzeentch] + Infernal Puppet = All enemy doubles miscast, modify miscasts by D3.

Can't remember names off by heart, but there's 2 Lore of Light Spells - One grants WS10 and I10, the other ASF. Give that to a Great Weapon unit, chazam.


----------



## Darkness007 (Sep 3, 2009)

Since the new lores came out I’ve wanted to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of each as well as magic as a whole, so here goes:

GENERAL CONCEPTS IN MAGIC: 
The fact that your opponent gets 1D6 DD (usually at least four) means that he/she can counter a good deal of what you throw at him/her. Unless he/she is using special rules, you will probably have more PD than his/her DD, meaning that you should be able to get spells in. Keeping these two facts in mind, it becomes obvious that the spells your opponent fears most will be the ones that he/she counters, allowing spells he/she doesn’t care about or feels he/she doesn’t need to counter. Since your opponent is going to counter your best spells, in order to have an effective magic phase you must have access to enough good/threatening spells that, although your opponent will counter the best ones, the ones that get through, the “less threatening” ones, are powerful enough to swing the game in your favour. This is important to remember when choosing and analyzing lores; the best lore will not be the one with the best spell, it is the one with the most good spells (a lore with 1 or 2 excellent spells simply sees those spells countered, allowing you to cast the mediocre spells, while a lore with a lot of useful spells lets your opponent counter several of them and still be a valuable force in your army).

FIRE: This lore will terrify your opponent, as long as your opponent is afraid of S4 hits… Generally any troops that can be killed by S4 hits aren’t worth targeting and units that are worth it are almost always too well armoured. I consider the lore useful for targeting hard to shoot units like skirmishers or monsters with multiple wounds, low to no saves, and regeneration (varghulf, trolls, etc.). The most tactically useful spell is probably Fulminating Flame Cage as the threat of S4 hits to every model is usually enough to prevent poorly armoured horde units from moving.

BEASTS: Has a fairly wide range of useful spells; Wyssan’s Wildform can certainly swing a combat in your favour while the Amber Spear is capable of taking out heavily armoured units. Part of the reason you can reliably get the first six spells in the lore off is that everyone is terrified of the Transformation of Kadon (and rightly so!) and will generally keep their DD around till you cast it.

METAL: Metal is a generally solid lore; Searing Doom and Final Transmutation are downright good (and therefore likely to be countered) and the lore contains several good augments and hex. Enchanted Blades gives +1 to wound and AP (essentially +1 S) but for a 1 more to the casting cost I can have Wyssan’s Wildform. Glittering robe is quite good but the hexes, Transmutation of Lead and Plague of Rust, both reduce your opponents armour save which makes Searing Doom and Gehenna’s Golden Hounds less effective.

LIGHT: Light seems to suffer from the 1-2 good spells syndrome (Speed of Light and Birona’s Timewarp). The often overlooked and quite good spells in this lore are Light of Battle (Unbreakability is excellent), Pha’s Protection (which casts on a 6+, allowing you to protect a key unit for very few PD) and the Net of Amyntok. While I focus on these three spells in particular, the Speed of Light and the Timewarp are extremely good and should be cast whenever you think you can get them off (especially if you can cast both of them for x2 M, +1 A, ASF, WS10, reroll all misses).

LIFE: I consider life to be all around ridiculous. It’s lore attribute allows you to heal those multi wound models while The Dwellers Below can often serve as a must counter (people often counter this rather than risk losing their wizard and +4 to dispel to a failed strength save). Throne of Vines is ridiculous, both because of its ability to save you from miscasts as well as its effect on the rest of the lore. The rest is of the lore is fairly obvious (regeneration on an 8+, +4 T on an 8+, D6 S6 hits on a 6+, and D6+1 healed models on a 12+).

HEAVENS: Unfortunately rather underpowered, its augment and hex spells can’t compete with other lores. It has (what I consider to be) a useless #2 spell and its 3 damage spells inflict very few hits (am I really going to roll an extra PD for the 10+ for S6 hits from Urannon’s Thunderbolt when I can cast it on a 6+ as a second thought spell in the lore of life?). Comet of Casandora allows for a tactical approach by forcing your opponent to stay away from a spot on the table for a turn or so…

SHADOW: Okkam’s Mindrazor is an excellent spell and the rest of the lore all have useful abilities and can be potentially decimating. Personally I find it to be a tad inconsistent (all those D3’s, random spell ranges and scatter dice). The lore attribute is an interesting concept but has few uses beyond the “Now you’re fighting my lord instead of my wizard” trick.

DEATH: It kills heroes, lords, and multi wound models like crazy. Soulblight is quite good, as is Doom and Darkness. It also contains the second most spectacular spells in the BRB (after the Transformation of Kadon), but a lot armies have decent initiative and can thus avoid your giant purple vortex. Generally, death is good if you’re having trouble with any sort of single model(s) or is you’re playing an army with very low initiative (Lizardmen, O&G, etc.)

VAMPIRES: Without the ability to throw single dice at IoN the lore of the vampires may see the use of other spells. Vanhel’s Danse Macabre and Raise Dead will continue to see a lot of use, but the Curse of Years, Winds of Undeath, and Summon Undead Horde are now all useable. The Curse of Years is half the cost of Final Transmutation and has half the effect. However, because it is a RiP spell, it requires your opponent to waste valuable PD dispelling it. The Winds of Undeath is another good spell, inflicting minor casualties on half your opponents units and creating a new unit of spirit hosts that can later be healed. Lastly, Summon Undead Horde seems to have enormous potential now that IoN is more difficult (requires more dice) to cast and it is easier to cast. In addition to being three times as effective as IoN for three times the casting cost (but only twice the dice) it has the added advantage of being able to replenish wounds in non-infantry, vampire, and ethereal units as well (while it doesn’t allow for the rejuvenation of more models per unit, it allows you to heal 1 wound from such a unit while only counting against one of your 3D6 wounds, while IoN requires the use of D6 wounds to heal 1 such wound). All in all the lore of vampires is extremely strong (although the army itself has some problems).

LITTLE WAAAGH: A pretty standard (and not very good) lore with some subpar hexes and magic missiles. It can kill characters and monsters with Mork Wants Ya! and tough, high armour save units with The Foot of Gork. Its only unique spell is its movement spell, The Hand of Gork, but its random movement distance makes it unreliable. I suppose it could be used to complete a failed charge though… On the whole the Little Waaagh’s best quality is its low casting costs (and the fact that you can take orc shamans and totally avoid taking it).

BIG WAAAGH: With significantly more powerful spells with casting costs almost as low as those of the Little Waaagh, the Big Waaagh is a good choice for O&G players. Bash ’Em Ladz allows rerolling of failed to hit rolls for a measly 6+ to swing combats, the Fists of Gork can deal with horde units while Gork’s Warpath can kill numerous heavily armoured models. Although Waaagh! suffers from the same unreliability as The Hand of Gork, its effect on all friendly models results in a lot more charges and giving all friendly models ASF and reroll failed to hit rolls is utterly ridiculous (orcish high elves…). The only area that the Big Waaagh is inferior to the Little Waaagh is probably its character killing as Headbut really doesn’t compare to Mork Wants Ya!


----------



## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

A lot of people have complained about slanesh, its biggest weakness is that most of your magic doesn't work against undead/demons. 

However titillating delusions is the best spell in the game imo, to get past the limited nature of slanesh I use the third eye of tzeentch on my sorc to ensure I have the ability to cast useful spells regardless.

The biggest issue I've had with slanesh is I've found that there's only two useful spells in the lore, ecstatic seizures and titillating delusions.

Titillating delusions is a real game winner for me as I love using my chaos dragon, I tend to run it forwards and then force the enemy to charge it in their turn, denying them the chance to ever use their cannons .


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Something I've noted before is if you really want a spell it's pretty easy to get it, and on the caster you want. For example I want Dwellers from Below on my Lvl 2 Damsel, Just take a lvl 4 Prophetess and Roll her spells first. If you Roll Dwellers then exchange it for the Signature Spell, if you roll Double 6 exchange your double for a different Spell then Dwellers for the Signature Spell. Then when you come to roll your Damsel there will only be 2-3 Spell slots left one of which is Dwellers. Unless you're really unlucky you should get it. 

I also play Daemons now so I thought I might run down their magic. 

*Daemon Lore of Tzeentch*

This is a very shooty Spell lore with 3 Magic Missiles and 1 Direct Damage. Unfortunately the ranges are very limited meaning you're going to have to get into harms way with them. The Magic Missiles themselves are very nice, doing significant damage for relatively low casting Values. Special mention goes to three spells. 

Firestorm of Tzeentch 
This is the longest range Magic Missile available at 24" doing 2D6 S5 flaming hits can make it very dangerous. All for a Casting Value 13 which is a little high. What it does do though is create a really annoying march blocking unit of horrors I the enemies rear or flank. It will only be a unit of 1 or 2 horrors but that can be really irritating for the enemy. 

Boon of Tzeentch
This is a nice little power for the end of your magic phase, throw a single dice into it and assuming you get 3+ you'll get at least 2 power dice back. Hopefully by this point you'll have run down your opponents Dispell pool and that allows you to fire off a quick Bolt of Change or something. 

Glean Magic
Or you could use you Boon dice to cast this. Your opponents wizards probably have good spells. Who wouldn't want a 7+ casting Dwellers from Below or Purple Sun. It is very situational but devastating. You've run down their dispell dice Glean Magic into Final Transmutation/Purple Sun/Dwellers etc. 

*Daemon Lore of Nurgle*
Nurgle is a bit of a hotch potch of things, some direct damage, a magic missile, a hex, a buff. Its a lore I would take for a themed army but its just not focused enough to build a caster around. It does have some very nice individual spells in there. 

Plague Wind 
This is the obviously good spell from the Lore, 13+ casting value is not very strenuous for a toughness test or die type spell. And on top of that you get bases of Nurglings from it. This is one if the most devastating spells in the whole book. A unit of 20 T3 guys will get cut in half and 3 bases of nurglings will hang round March Blocking them in the flank or rear assuming they pass the panic test. 

Miasma of Pestilence
This is the base spell , with a trivial casting value. But the effect is pretty bold, reducing WS, S, T, I, A to 1 makes it much easier to beat people down. On a Daemon Prince or such like it makes people 5's to hit you, 6's to would you. If you're going up against something big and scary like Minotaurs or Orges then suddenly S1 T1 Minotaurs are a lot less forbidding. It's situational but very effective when it is needed. 

Pit of Slime
Again a very situational spell, giving the opponent a Strength test or leave the unit unable to move or shoot. In certain situations that is simply awesome, leaving a unit stranded for a turn can hold up an entire advance. Also War Machines automatically fail Strength tests as it uses the lowest strength in the unit. Can be very handy. 

*Daemon Lore of Slaneesh*
This is a great lore to load up on. It has relatively easy spells, the hardest being a 10, and four of them focus on leadership. If you don't go all out on this Lore I feel it's a bit of a waste as the power alone are a little mediocre. 

Phantasmagoria
This is the key spell in the Lore, combined with the Great Icon of Despair especially. Forcing Leadership tests on 3D6 really makes the other spells in the lore work well. Acquiescence making you Stupid is suddenly a lot worse when you're testing on 3 dice. Slicing Shards can devastate a unit, Pavane can snipe Characters well. 

Succour of Chaos
This is a great little buff, Always Strikes First cannot really be under estimated. And giving you the ReRolls to hit as well just incase ASF doesn't give you them. 

Aramoro


----------



## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Since people are going ahead and adding tactica for specific race lores rather than combos, I'll post some of the tactics for my pointy-eared bastards.

_The Dark lore_

_General Tactics_
The Dark Lore is, first and foremost, a generalist lore. If you only have one wizard, or are unsure who you'll face up against, this lore is a good choice. It provides a good mixture of utility and damage-dealing, sometimes combining both at once, with low casting values that allows a level 4 to cast optimally on two dice per spell! This lore also combines well with the Sacrificial Dagger on a level 4, as you can cast most of the spells on one dice and use the Dagger to save you if you fail.

_Spell Summaries_

_Power of Darkness_
This spell isn't a Dark-only spell, as every Sorceress gets it, but I'll cover it anyways. While this has been nerfed somewhat, with natural 1's or 2's autofail, it also has been buffed a lot, seeing as the extra power dice mean that much more. D3+1 power dice is a lot. There are two options for getting it off. Playing safe, and using two dice, or waiting till you only have one or two dice left and casting it for each of your sorceresses.

Like many other spells, Sacrificial Dagger can help here, allowing you to cast it on one dice regardless, but even without, it can have a huge impact. Your opponent has a tough choice, they can save several dice for this spell, letting other spells go off, or they can let you cast this unhindered, potentially extending your magic phase by 2 or 3 spells, after your opponent has used all their dispel dice. Very useful.

_Chillwind_
When you look at the basic effects of this spell, it's good, but it's gotten even better in the new edition. D6 S4 hits can cause a couple casualties, nothing that good, but preventing a unit from shooting can be insanely good, especially when it's the larger unit that likely would be used with the new editions 2-ranks-shooting.

_Doombolt_
This spell is, well, probably the worst in the Dark Lore. D6 S5 hits can be decent at killing skirmishers, or perhaps killing one or two heavy cavalry.

_Word of Pain
_Best hex ever? Probably. Reducing WS and BS to 1 can be useful in a huge variety of situations. Since nothing in the Dark Elf book is below WS3 this means that the enemy hits you on 5's, and you hit them on 3's, potentially a total turnaround. Even better, this debuffs characters in the unit as well, which can make even the most killy lord flail around uselessly, and, depending on what he's in base-contact with, very vulnerable.

The secondary use, the reduction of BS, can't be used in as many situations, but is still very useful. While not guaranteeing no hits like a successful wound from Chillwind, there won't be many, or any, probably. Try using this on a ranged unit, then, in your following turn, before the hex goes away, charge them. This will affect their stand-and-shoot, *and* their previous shooting phase. Also makes even small units capable of taking them on.

_Bladewind_
On the surface, this spell appears to be just a magic missile that you have to roll to hit for, but don't be fooled. 3d6 can be a *lot* of attacks, and against some enemies, you can actually get some good damage going. The real use of this in the new edition however, is warmachine hunting.

Since the warmachines are likely in a place to maximize LOS, it shouldn't be too hard for your Sorceress to see them as well, and here's where the kicker comes in, Bladewinds attacks are close-combat. That means that you bybass the toughness thing entirely, likely killing or maiming a 100+ point warmachine with one spell. Very nice.

_Soul Stealer_
This spell is awesome. No two ways about it. In the new edition, with everyone taking larger units, a S2 hit ignoring armor on everyone in a unit can easily kill around a hundred points. Just throw it at the largest unit the enemy have and boom. Also good for using on existing combats to swing the tide by destroying some of the enemy models before the next phase of combat starts.

The secondary effect is also awesome for protecting your Sorceress. The very first casting should take her up to 4/6 wounds, and subsequent castings can give those back if the magical protection fails.

_Black Horror
_And the final spell in this lore, Black Horror. Compared to the previous spells, a menagerie of mixed utility/damage, this is fairly straightforward, but also very reliable. Low strength isn't as easy to count on as low toughness for Soul Stealer, but each can do similar amounts of damage, this having a greater range and possibility of touching other units, while Soul Stealer can be cast into close combat, and regenerates wounds on the Sorceress. Use it to kill big units, or, a secondary use, place it over clustered warmachines to inflict auto-wounds and panic tests on each.
​


----------



## rodmillard (Mar 23, 2010)

Since no one else has, I may as well chime in on behalf of the high elves.

_Lore Selection_

High magic is nice (and if you are only running one mage I would say take it every time, unless you're using Teclis). But one of the biggest strengths the high elves have is in the range of lores they can choose from. We have access to all the rulebook lores, plus one of our own. There aren't many really nasty synergies with the rulebook lores, but the beauty of the high magic list is that it covers most of the bases - if you are taking multiple mages, you can give your high mage the seerstaff and then tailor your high spells to cover the weaknesses in your other lore(s). I tend to run a dragon mage and a high mage, so my high mage takes buffs and hexes leaving direct damage/missile spells to the dragon mage. Conversely, I know a few players who take an archmage with life and then use their high mage for offense.

EDIT: Don't forget that high elf mages get +1 to dispel, so you can run effective magic defense with just a couple of level 2s and the right items.

On to the spells:

_Drain Magic_
Often overlooked, this spell has dropped somewhat in usefulness now that all mages can throw up to six dice at any spell (before, you could use multiple castings to put high difficulty spells out of reach for low level mages). It is still incredibly useful, however, and as a free spell it is always worth throwing out as the last spell of your phase (the difficulty is only 7, so even a L2 has a 1/3 chance of getting it off on one dice). The thing to remember with this is that for each successful drain magic you put out, your opponent is going to have to commit one more dice to each of his casting attempts.

_Shield of Saphery_
What's not to like? a 5+ ward that lasts until the start of your next magic phase goes a long way towards countering the fragility of high elf units. It's a lot less situational than Earth Blood (more things bypass regen than wards) and cheaper too.

_Curse of Arrow Attraction_
Of all the high spells, this depends most on the rest of your army to take advantage of it. If you are running multiple bolt throwers, however, this one is a keeper.

_Courage Of Aenarion_
Not that great, IMO, since spear units will often have steadfast anyway and if your elite units start having to take break tests something has already gone horribly wrong. For one extra point of difficulty _Light Of Battle _is by far the better spell.

_Fury of Khaine_
2d6 S4 attacks may be nothing to write home about, but it is easier to cast than the equivalent spells from the rulebook lores.

_Flames Of The Phoenix_
This has always been a tricky spell to use, although it has arguably got nastier now that S3 can wound anything on a 6. Remember that your opponent has to roll for each model in the unit, so this is a horde killer. And your opponent will have to commit at least two of his precious power dice to dispelling it in his own magic phase unless he wants to take another load of hits on your turn.

_Vaul's Unmaking_
This is the hardest spell to cast in the whole lore, and its still only 12+. It has also become much more important now that there is no equivalent spell in the lore of metal (which there was in both 6th and 7th). As an added bonus, your opponent has to reveal ALL the items in the target unit, so it's great for guaging the weaknesses of enemy deathstars.


----------



## deathnote (Jul 19, 2010)

I am loving this thread as im new to fantasy and wont start playing properly untill island of blood. However please can i request someone writes a Skaven one please as i need all the help i can get :biggrin: im not not used to this magic lark


----------

