# Eldar are weak ... how do they win for once?



## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

I have been an Eldar fan for all my life. I know the brilliance of the close combat fighting, but despite this, with only a bog-standard defence of 3 or 4 they are bantha fodder at best.

How on terra do they actually win a battle against the tau or another rock-hard race?


Sword Slasher


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Eldar are definitely a fineness army. If you don't play them right they can be unforgiving. Played right, on the other hand, they are brilliant! MY 12 year old son plays Eldar and he does very well with them..., even against adults at our local GW on game night. My suggestion is to post your list and get some input and strategy's that can improve your game and make playing your army fun.:victory:


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## Smeady (Mar 8, 2008)

*The Timed Charge.*

To be effective you must do two things;

1, Use cover to the max or be cut down.

2, Use a lure to bring the enemy close and then issue a very decisive and effective charge with Banshees and Harliquins to win, or use buildings to cover an assult.

The long and lethal weapons like plude rifles and submission rail blasts will cripple any advance. 

Tau use tanks to make a mobilised assult but to silence their engines use a falcon with 2 pulse lasers.

Chaos Tau ROCK :taunt:


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## Hornet (Feb 22, 2008)

Smeady said:


> Tau use tanks to make a mobilised assult but to silence their engines use a falcon with 2 pulse lasers.
> 
> Chaos Tau ROCK :taunt:


How do you get 2 pulse lasers on a falcon?


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## FarseerNo3 (Mar 7, 2008)

you cant but you can have a pulse laser and a lance thats 3 hard ass shots d cannons that glance on 3-4 pen on 5-6 only costs 50 points to


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## Archangel (Dec 30, 2007)

Eldar = speed, use it to your advantage with hit and run tactics. Maximize the use of cover, but not too much. i.e. a cityfight may get you killed real fast.


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## Smeady (Mar 8, 2008)

Hornet said:


> How do you get 2 pulse lasers on a falcon?


Twin linked is still good but the bright lance and pulse laser is, I admit, is better than the twin linked pulse lasers.


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

Damned Fist said:


> My suggestion is to post your list and get some input and strategy's that can improve your game and make playing your army fun.


This is a 1000pt army list that I use quite often.

HQ
Farseer 158
Doom, Mind War, Fortune, Singing Spear, Runes of Witnessing, Runes of Warding

Elites
6 Howling Banshees 123
Exarch, Mirror Swords, War Shout 

6 Howling Banshees 123
Exarch, Mirror Swords, War Shout 

5 Harlequins 118
Troupe Master, 2 Harlequin's Kisses

Troops
12 Guardians 101
Shuriken Cannon Grav Platform

Fast Attack
5 Warp Spiders 152
Exarch, Power Blades, 2 Death Spinners, Withdraw

Viper
Shuriken Cannon, Bright Lance, Vectored Engines

Heavy Support
Wraithlord
Wrath Sword, Flamers, Scatter Laser

Please give me advice on how to improve this army to a Xenos killing force.


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## Tau Chaotix (Mar 1, 2008)

Sword Slasher said:


> This is a 1000pt army list that I use quite often.
> 
> HQ
> Farseer 158
> ...


could you not include individual point costs, it says in the rules not to do that. TRY READING THEM, also the rules state not to write in red writing unless you are a moderator.

btw eldar ARE Xenos.

-Olek.


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## Smeady (Mar 8, 2008)

Smeady says;

COOL SIG!!!!!!

Plus get a wave serpent NOW!


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

Ok. But one thing, WHY?


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## azalin_r3x (Feb 25, 2008)

Sword Slasher said:


> This is a 1000pt army list that I use quite often.
> 
> HQ
> Farseer 158
> ...


In my opinion...
i have a lot of objections , but that's just my opinion

get a spirit stone on the farseer so you can cast a second spell per round, since you buy more than one

banshees.. exarch works better with executioner imo

harlequins... just 5 with no shadowseer are just dead and they don't know it yet. and you buy a troupe master and not 5 kisses for the same points? add a shadowseer and couple more kisses and you are kinda ok

Troops, you need one more troop
also, wouldn't say that shuricen cannon for the platform is good choice

vyper... doesn't need vectored engines really, it's gonna get cheaper, also brightlance hmmm, maybe EML would be better for versatility

wraithlord... seems like you are gonna advance him, well, he seems kinda ok, maybe a heavier weapon would help better

i guess you could use a falcon to move some of your 6 men elites forward


Also, there is a different section for army lists, so you should probably write it there


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## Tau Chaotix (Mar 1, 2008)

Sword Slasher said:


> Ok. But one thing, WHY?


duh, copywrite reasons, GW get annoyed when you give out rules and point costs online.

-Olek.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

you army is far to small to be that slow unless you have loads of terrain. and you have hardly anything to do in the shooting phase. nearly all the units you have picked are combat oriented but without transport or fire support backup you are unlikely to see combat unless you are fighting a horde army and any horde army will just swamp you. look at the dire avengers and fire dragon aspects and a few transports and dont underestimate the damage storm guardians can dish out with their superior numbers and melta weapons if supporting cc aspects


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

Thanks for your advice.

i'm gonna get a tank next time i expand my army (probally a wave serpent) and some dire avengers. i usually play high-terrain battles against taufirewarriors and devilfishes, what do you suggest is the best gun for the viper, wraithlord and grav platform are?


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## Tau Chaotix (Mar 1, 2008)

well whatever they aare, they are no match for a rail gun, which will waste yor tanks.
get some shooty stuff, rangers perhaps.

-Olek.


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## Sieg (Dec 3, 2007)

Pathfinders are probably my favorite troop choice in the game and you arent using any? With amazing range and a potential AP 1 they are just to good to pass up. You should also use heavy, anti-tank, wrath lords.


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## Lucius Vane (Jan 21, 2008)

I don't play Eldar, but I have the codex and have played around with it, so here's my two cents.

Drop Mind War on the Farseer and give it spirit stones.

Get a squad of pathfinders and use a squad of Dire Avengers with bladestorm instead of guardians.

Drop the Harlequins. Without a Shadowseer they're dogmeat, and at this point level, there are better ways to spend points.

Drop either the wraithlord or vyper (or both) and either get cheap falcons or a wave serpant to transport your Banshees. Serpents are cheaper, but Falcons pack a nice punch. If you can't get your banshees into combat by turn 2 then you're wasting killing potential and most likely getting shot up.

I don't think you'd be able to do all of this and still be under a thousand points, but I think any of these changes would make it a more viable army.


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## Tbull (Mar 8, 2008)

I agree with the stuff involving a transport and support. I've been shot up my share of times for concentrating on CC w/o the required support.


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## Skarface131 (Mar 14, 2008)

I have good news and bad news for you:
good: your list is way overpriced and there is definite room for improvement. 

bad: i take it this is the majority of what you have. If so, and you want to win, you need to start playing smaller battles. At this point level your farseer should come in at about 83 points you have so much equipped that he really doesn't need. Also, get rid of both war shouts, the troupe master, vectored engines, withdraw, the wraithsword, the bright lance, and the shuriken cannons. All this gives you 190 points. Your wraithlord is a much better gun platform than a cc unit. As such, give him an EML and a brightlance. You really need some AT firepower and just ranged power, especially against tau. I know exactly where you are coming from, as my primary playing buddy is also a tau player. Every time i brought a ranged army I won, and most of the time when I used primarily cc units, I lost. Dark reapers will ruin his suit's day, and that wraithlord keep away his hammerheads. As it is now, you give him every fire lane possible to shoot the crap out of you until you reach him. If you even bring 2 ranged units you severely limit his mobility and effectiveness.


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## Casmiricus (Mar 6, 2008)

Don't go up against me in a cityfight. :grin:

The trick is to hit the enemy where they are weakest. If they've got a bunch of guns (Like my IG), pin them down with rangers and get stuck in in CC. If they have lots of stabby knives and the like, use fleet to give you extra turns of shooting and concentrate your firepower.


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## moc065 (Oct 31, 2007)

HQ
Farseer: Doom, Mind War, Fortune, Singing Spear, Runes of Witnessing, Runes of Warding
I think you actually have too much of a build going on here. Drop the Runes of Witnessing as they increase potential for success; but they seriously increase risk of Perils of the Warp as well. Next, trim out one Power and get Stones so that you can actually use the two powers each turn. I would say to keep Doom (as you have loads of low str attacks) and Fortune (as you have loads of "Soft" infantry. Mindwar is cool and all; but without a Jetbike it is just not as effective as the other two (within your army) and you should be using the powers together to make sure your getting max effect. Looks like this written up.
(148) Farseer, Doom, Fortune, Spirit Stones, RoWard, and Spear. 

Elites
6 Howling Banshees: Exarch, Mirror Swords, War Shout 
OK, the same goes here, War Shout is cool; but in many cases it is just not neccesary as too many enemies have good LD and will pass the test anyway. I suggest that you simply drop it for points elsewhere.
(118) 6 Banshees: Ex with M-swords.

6 Howling Banshees: Exarch, Mirror Swords, War Shout 
On this second squad I would say to use the Executioner for some uint variety (better on anyathing T=4+ as well), and again to simply drop the War Shout.
(118) 6 Banshees: Ex with Executioner.

5 Harlequins: Troupe Master, 2 Harlequin's Kisses
OK, now this squad needs an overhaul/upgrade to become so much more effective. Get a Shadowseer and more kisses and here is why. The shadowseer will force enemies to take a Veil of Tears test in order to target them, he will also give them Plasma Greanades which will get them attacking first (even in cover) on most opponents, and the more kisses you have the better (until you can't get the figures in Base to Base contact). Here is the unit I suggest for now.
(178) 6 Harlies: Troupe Master with PW, Shadowseer and 5 Kisses.

Troops
12 Guardians: Shuriken Cannon Grav Platform
You actually need a second Troops unit to be legal; but I will assume that you are getting another unit soon enough. Guardians can be brutal if used well. Give them an EML (for its range and diversity - I know its a single shot weapon; but one template does way more than any Shuri-can shooting) and hide them behind some cover. then simply move one of the crew figures out each on your turn to gain Line Of Site to the intended target, even if you do nothing the enemy can only target the one figure and therefore he will never really damage the unit as on your next turn you simply move the other crew figure out and repeat. Even if both Crew members are dead, the unit gets VP's for surviving mostly intact, and if an enemy gets close their Catipults can put out a serious amount of firepower. The unit would look like this - and lets assume that you have 2 of them.
(116) 12 Guardians, Eldar Missile Launcher Platform.
(116) 12 Guardians, Eldar Missile Launcher Platform. 

Fast Attack
5 Warp Spiders: Exarch, Power Blades, 2 Death Spinners, Withdraw
Nice squad and I understand that basically how they come in the box set. They are good like this; Just use a couple turns to get them into possition and then start shooting and hiding. Do not try to get them into Close Combat as it is not their best attribute. You can drop the Power Blades to save points though.
(142) 5 Spiders: Ex with DDS and Withdraw.

Viper: Shuriken Cannon, Bright Lance, Vectored Engines
Now this needs a big overhaul. VE on such a fragile unit is not good, and the BL is better put elsewhere. I suggest going for volumne of fire and simply saturate llight vehicles early and then work on infantry.
(70) Vyper: Scatterlaser and Shuri-cannon. 

Heavy Support
Wraithlord: Wrath Sword, Flamers, Scatter Laser
This has good BS, so use it as it is a real good shooter. give it the Brightlance and an Eldar Missile Launcher. Keep it moving, and keep it shooting as it is tough as hell; but it is not a good Close Combat unit sue to its limited number of attacks. 
(155) Wraithlord: BL and EML.

Now I have it at 1161pts, so you can actually add stuff to get to 1200pts if you like (another Warp Spider, and more Guradians would be my suggestion).

And if you want to get down under 1K, then simply put the Harlequins away for the game and use the Banshees instead. I gave you a few tactical suggestions; try them out, see what works, as I find Eldar truely resilinet when used well (and I do play tournaments with them). I hope that helps you in some way.


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## Aui-san (Mar 17, 2008)

*psychology!*

I use Dark Reapers. 

Many armies have 3+ saves and rely on that to advance and control the batleground with their basic troop units. A well placed (in cover w Farseer w fortune) will control firelines and slow down advancing enemy troops. 

Make your oponent be the one sneaking.

Your strength is using speed to have the right specialist at hand when u need them, hence you´ll have too play very agressive and take your losses!

Everyone fears Halequins so if´you´re planning to win your closecombat with Banshees throw in a unit of Harlequins to atract enemyfire and give your girls 1-2 extra turns of advancement!

Falcon w Firedragons is a must too, another scare too push tanks in too hiding!


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

my eldar army is unpopular but extremly effective. i use 3 10 man squads of dragons in wave serpents with autarch with fusion gun and fuegan attatched to a squad each, and 2 six man squads of avengers with blade storm and to make up the points a vyper with pulse laser and shuri cannon all my vehicles are troop killers and the dragons kill armour deadly if used right pants if used wrong although i also have a 3k mainly guardian force for when i get bored of anhilating marines


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

What do you think about fire dragons and striking scorpions?


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## Lucus009 (Mar 19, 2008)

When I play I lose 50% of the time, but when I win I kill everything on the table. The way you strategize is key. My list that I posted won against the Tau, had lots of cover.


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

What sort of troops did you use


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## FarseerNo3 (Mar 7, 2008)

dark reapers dont need lien of sight?


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## moc065 (Oct 31, 2007)

FarseerNo3 said:


> dark reapers dont need lien of sight?


Pardon ? Can you please give me a reference for this....


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## FarseerNo3 (Mar 7, 2008)

moc065 said:


> Pardon ? Can you please give me a reference for this....


nevermind it was a question, i thought they were reaper launchers


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

FarseerNo3 is right they do need line of sight to shoot.

By the way, moc065, nice pic in your sig!


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## stormshroud (Apr 27, 2007)

I may be reading that wrong but you only have 1 troops choice?!? You need 2 minimum for the standard missions, I would recommend a full squad of Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent, can deliver a large amount of firepower at a point within quite a large range.

How do you normally deploy and use your army?


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

I usually have the guardians, viper and wraithlord in the middle and the howlers/ harlequins ready to jump between cover and flank the opposing force. I don't really have a set place for the spiders, i just warp them to where they're needed.

You got any advice about deployment?


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Sword Slasher said:


> How on terra do they actually win a battle against the tau or another rock-hard race?


My list is made up of many meltas tucked away into falcons so they not only have speedy transports, but can unleash enough firepower to annihilate just about anything. I bring fuegan along with his monster firepike. Gotta love his 4 attacks as a monstrous creature (Fire Axe FTW!!!) and his firedragons become fearless. 

Played this list against tau and baked them and their camel toes. The Eldar are hard as hell to get working right and are completely circumstantial. I guess either everything goes great or everything goes down the drain for them.


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

digging up an old post, but just wanting to set something right. Tau Chaotix, there is nothing wrong with posting the total cost of the unit as you would still need a codex to decipher it. GW just gets a bit bitchy when you post whole lists/codex's of information with every points cost and so on. What he has done is not wrong, and is infact common practice so when we critique it when can suggest other options for similar points costs.
Anyway, rant over, please continue :wink:


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

Thanks for your support :biggrin:

Got any deploymant help?


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## Smeady (Mar 8, 2008)

For tactics I do love to refuse a flank with jet bikes if they don' t get shot up. Or I love to mask a close quarter charge whilst sitting giving out punishment via dark reaper.


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

I tried that but my army keeps on getting shot up by the enemy before my crippiling blow can take effect.


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## Tau Chaotix (Mar 1, 2008)

you two are brothers...why dont you just tell each other that at home...(Smeady and Slasher)

-Olek.


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

Cus it's more fun this way!

(...yes i am the brother of smeady...regretably)


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## Tau Chaotix (Mar 1, 2008)

Yes, but it takes much longer to type it out. Talking is far easier! With the exeption of long posts or stories.

-Olek.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

its better to type on the forums to help others =]

now, can we direct this a little more back on topic please?


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

Sure

Which aspect warriors do you use?


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

I've just been and got some dires. How are they decent against?


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Just use harlequins with the veil of tears.
Also get pathfinders and stuff them in cover.
Now that you can kill marines with stunning ease, now all you need are falcons. Lots of them, and some fire dragons.
Oh and get a single wraithlord. They're obnoxious.


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## Iron Priest (Apr 8, 2008)

buy the new cobra when it comes out bye bye everything in 1 shot


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## Sleedon (Jan 22, 2008)

against tau and any shooty army use your avengers in wave serpents to close enough to shoot and then watch any troop choice go bye bye. 

And get fire dragons they are very very very good against any vehicle or if you have a termi problem. I also suggest these in a wave serpent


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

Great advice, but i'm usually against at least 1 rail gun which fires 72" S10 AP1 shots that take out all of the stuff that i field to destroy it!


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## blitz451 (Apr 4, 2008)

I'm just moving to the Eldar after years of playing marines however there are some basic tactics that i have in my playbook that are universal and may help you out.

1. Contest the firing lanes, even if the enemy has a superior weapon or unit. You must make him pay attention to the long range firepower you can bring to bear on him. This will protect your vehicles as they advance since your opponent cannot simply ignore a wraithlord with BL and EML.

2. Play to your army's strength. For Eldar it is mobility so use it to pick at the units he has left unsupported. Also don't forget about your speed when you deploy, use it to mask the areas you plan to assault.

Example:
Deploy fast attack units in the center (mounted assault troops work well here), on the side you intend to assualt deploy your best long range support unit (probably your wraithlord), and use a unit of guardians w/EML support platform on the other side to deny the enemy a flank. A unit of spiders will make a servicable ready reserve (i prefer bikes myself). This type of deployment allows you to look at your oppents units and decide where you mount an assault without telegraphing where you intend to hit.

3. VERY important. No plan survives first contact with the enemy. You have to be flexible once the game starts. Look for chances to hit units that aren't supported by heavy weapon fire and use your speed to capitalize on them quickly.

4. Have fun. You have to be able to stare into the face of disaster and laugh.


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## Changer of Ways (Jan 3, 2008)

Eldar can be very powerful when used correctly. You're right in that it does take a good deal of skill to play them effectively, though.

If you are unsure about your ability to play Eldar efficiently, I suggest that you start out with a relatively simple counter-attack list. Grab 2-3 nasty close-combat squads and pour the rest of your points into firepower.
Shoot the hell out of the most dangerous enemy units while protecting your front line with that assault I was just talking about. Have your close combat hang out in just the right place to block enemy assaults.
To be safe, you might want to buy some transports with which to jump forward to block assaults correctly or capture objectives in missions.

When you get comfortable with Eldar, consider more complex strategies (see the "Exarch on jetbike within a squad of Shining Spears" surgical strike and the like).

Have fun!


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## Annenkov (Apr 12, 2008)

Eldar are my bane because you never know what you get when you play them. If you want to be a good eldar player you need to keep that fear in your opponent. Try something different. Like lots of CC one game (striking scorpions, over banshee's in my opinion as the added strength and armor save comes in handy) and them lots of speed the next (warp spiders and swooping hawks) the next. The greatest strength of the Eldar is the ability to keep and opponent on its toes. That is why I hate Eldar, its "like a box of chocolates."


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

Annenkov said:


> That is why I hate Eldar, its "like a box of chocolates."


You never know what you're gonna get!


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## Gore Hunter (Nov 5, 2007)

Whilst they may have Toughness 3 Eldar have the third best Firepower in the game they are pretty darn good in CC and they do have some models which are bitches to kill
Wraithguard T6
Wraith Lord T8
Avatar T6
Pheonix Lord T4


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## bloodthrister (Mar 29, 2008)

could be me, but isn't this the same with Space Marines? 
Some chapters are masters in CC, while others focus on fast attack etc.

But you're right about the eldar though


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Best thing about eldar is that you can made a completely ballanced army with them. They are rearly good for talliments and compains


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

Do you think that an army round-about half cc and half deadly weaponary would kill all? (forgeting exceptions!)


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## General Vox (Apr 9, 2008)

I'd say that's an OK combo. Why not forget the CC aspect of Eldar and focus on stuff like the prism cannon or D - cannon?


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

I would but i don't have the models, i don't want to put all my eggs in one basket and i think CC armies are GREAT!


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## General Vox (Apr 9, 2008)

I'm just saying that the eldar might require supporting fire.

(and yes CC armys are way cool)


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

I think half and half works. Stand back fire and then counter charge with the combat eliment


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

What guns do you think are the most versatle? Most of them max at about a 24" range


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

How about replacing one of the squads of banshees with striking scorpions, the mandiblasters can be viscious, granting an additional assault phase. other than that, I always default to an army's basic troop choice, they are usually good troops, and in your case, if you have the poinds, use dire avengers to support the guardians. if you give the opponent too many models to worry about, you have a beter chance of having things your way. just my two cents


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

So, go for a swarming army rather than a few uber models, right?


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## Beriothien (Apr 24, 2008)

Sword, in general you need more basic troops than just the mandatory slots, regardless of what army you are buying.

All that stuff about "the unit dedicated to the purpose" and having lots of tiny elites is great fluff and marketing, but does not lead to a tremendous amount of tactical success.

Unless you are playing against the family pet, a good opponent is going to work VERY HARD to make sure you can't move a unit designed specifically to totally "paper his rock" to get there and lay that paper down. He might have a nice sharp pair of scissors handy.

In other words, good players try to achieve and maintain the initiative in the game, dictating the flow. Makes your highly specialized units somewhat less wonderful when that happens to you.

You don't have to go "horde" but you need to think about 

(1) how do I have enough bodies, and keep them alive, to assault objectives and then HOLD THEM against a counter assault next turn?

(2) how do they make it to the objectives that are 12-24 inches away from my deployment zone?

(3) how do I deal with my enemy's fast stuff, drop troops etc that are coming down behind me if I move forward? Do I even need to worry?

(4) how do I kill enemy armor, or do I even really need to?

(5) how do I kill an army that has over 120 models in 1500 points and runs straight at me?


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

Thanks for the advice


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