# HWT /w 3 Las v.s. Vendetta Gunship



## blackrob (Dec 5, 2009)

HWT: 105pts
x3 LasCannons 

The Vendetta: 130pts
3x Twin Linked LasCannons 

For just 25 points, you essentially make the HWT have armor in a fast skimmer with a "Bring it Down" order on it at all times.

If there are fast attack slots open, why would anyone ever take a x3 Las HWT ?


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Well the HWT is a scoring unit you can easily put in cover. That's all it really has over the vendetta, though those are two good things of course. 

You wouldn't catch me using either one though. I like lascannons in infantry squads where they can't just be silenced by a single shot. Valkyrie spam doesn't seem to work quite as effortlessly as some people suggested, though they are good in some match ups.


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## blackrob (Dec 5, 2009)

Someguy said:


> You wouldn't catch me using either one though. I like lascannons in infantry squads where they can't just be silenced by a single shot. Valkyrie spam doesn't seem to work quite as effortlessly as some people suggested, though they are good in some match ups.


I would like Las in infantry too if I didn't play IG. I actually made a couple hybrid lists that got shot down for putting Las in infantry with the argument that it would waste other gunfire (the flashlight and most likely a GL) and mobility. Given the nature of orders, his argument made since for IG so I have kinda strayed away from that line of thought. 

So that has me now making one of two choices, HWT /w Las or Gunship :grin:

Edit: I would post a link to the thread but I'm not sure if it is against forum rules to post a link to a different forum group.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

why bring las HWT's when you can bring missile HWT's for a lot less points. I bring a couple of each, Mis. HWT's on objectives and outflanking vendettas... One's for popping transports/light av while the other goes for heavier armour.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

one-shot weapons on BS3 platforms is a poor choice, so take AC's instead. The Vendetta for it's points is a fantastic choice and fits any style of IG list. Sure they're a big fat target, but the 2 I take hardly ever fail to make their points back before been destroyed... HWT's are also very easy to wipe from the board.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Keep in mind, the Bring It Down! order can make that Autocannon unit a DEVASTATING threat to any transport Shot of a Land Raider, 6 TL S7 shots? You'll hit with 4-5 shots, and then obliterate that pitiful armour 11.

Lascannon on a heavy weapon team is a bit of a waste of points, it's too expensive for what it does.
It's effective, and if you can keep it alive reliably then they're great, but they're too easy to kill for their cost.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Vendettas are £47 per model plus shipping?

Heavy Weapon teams you can get 3x for a tenner on Ebay.

Go figure.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Well you might take HWT lascannon teams for the orders they can be given.

For example you have a unit of terminators behind a pice of 4+ cover. A vendetta might have TL but when they can still take a cover save you might end up wasting shots. But a HWT can be given the "fire on my target" order which forces your opponent to re-roll the passed saves.

IIRC the HWT is cheaper, and can hold objectives making it a better static supporting fire unit.

The vendetta can come on and R*** the rear of most tanks on the field making it a better mobile tank-assaulting unit.

Each unit has it's place.

Why not use both? Put a HWT in a vendetta, DS it next to a objective, unload the HWT ready to start firing in the next turn and allowing the vendetta to then either give the HWT some covering fire or going off and killing shit.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

lawrence96 said:


> Why not use both? Put a HWT in a vendetta, DS it next to a objective, unload the HWT ready to start firing in the next turn and allowing the vendetta to then either give the HWT some covering fire or going off and killing shit.


Two points:

1. Why would you want Lascannon FORWARD? That's just suicide!
2. Why would you Deep Strike the Vendetta when you could just Scout move it?


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Okay, scout move in the Vendetta. either way you acheive the same goals.

As for forward Lascannons being suicide i shall allow the SAS to answer you: 
"Who dares, Wins"


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## hocky (Jan 31, 2009)

A Lascannon HWT is too weak: gets killed too easily, at BS 3 too few shots hit and because of LOS they rely on a good battlefield setup.
Vendettas are awesome: They can scout or deepstrike, move 24" to get out of trouble have 3 TL Las so guarantee hits, have armour to reduce the chance of getting wiped out and can carry troops (particularly a nice vet squad with carapace armour and 3 meltas to do away with pesky SM's or vehicles that it already hasnt wiped out.
There is no argument surely!!


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

HOBO said:


> one-shot weapons on BS3 platforms is a poor choice, so take AC's instead.


To be honest, I hate this particular argument. It bears no relation to statistical fact.

If you are BS 3, half your shots will hit. Yes, if you fire more shots you will hit more often, but still only half the shots you fired will land. Any weapon that rolls to hit using BS will benefit equally from an increase in BS. BS does not alter the choice of what guns you should take.

If anything, it's the autocannons that benefit more from ballistic skill. They tend to fire at targets where multiple hits are required. On average, Lascannons tend to get the job done in one hit a lot more often. 3 lascannon shots equals 1.5 hits, which is bad news for a lot of things. 3 autocannons equals 3 hits, which is pretty easy to survive for M/TEQs, vehicles and MCs and doesn't make much impact on hordes.

Also in general I kind of hate autocannons. Missile launchers just seem a superior option in almost any situation. Autocannons are good at getting glancing hits on vehicles, and glancing hits are good at doing nothing.


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## hocky (Jan 31, 2009)

I agree with you someguy. I'd much rather take Missile Launchers than auto cannons. Statistically a Heavy bolter will destroy more infantry than an auto cannon.
If you want to go for vehicles then a Lascannon is the choice and if you want to deal with both then a missile launcher has to be better as you have St8 AP3 or frag to choose.
I really dont get the autocannon trend.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Well, autocannons are 2/3 the cost of the missile launcher, so that's something. Also, against light vehicles like piranhas, land speeders, and rhinos, autocannons are more effective (for AV 10 .50 pens per gun for AC vs. .33 for MC and for AV 11 .33 pens vs. .25). Against AV 12 vehicles, autocannons have the exact same chance of getting a penetrating hit as a missile launcher does (.17). They have the same chance of doing anything to AV 13 but the ML actually can get a pen, however both of their chances of doing anything to AV 13 are minimal anyway.

Against infantry, MLs are more effective. The blast is probably going to generate more hits than the autocannon's 2 shots, and there's always the option of shooting krak missiles into marines to ignore their armor. The AC does pretty reliably get 1 wound onto any infantry squad. You could easily shoot the frag missile and come up with 2 hits on a T4 enemy and come out with the same number of average wounds. 3 hits off a small blast is probably closer to average, with that number going up considerably against deep strikers and squads disembarking fro transports.

For other unit types, which is more effective varies considerably. Autocannons are better against daemon princes (.28 wounds per gun vs. .21), bikes that are turbo-boosting or Ork warbikers (.28 vs. .14), probably better against tyranid warriors/genestealers that aren't tightly packed, depending on scatter of ML blast and whatnot, and ACs are better for hive tyrants or carnifexes that have 2+ armor (.11 vs. .07). MLs are better against nob bikers (str 8 for instant death), SM/eldar bikes that didn't turbo (.42 vs. .28), and carnifexes with 3+ armor (.42 vs. .22).

So as with many things, it depends on what types of things you face, and you probably want a mix of both. If you've got vendettas and melta vets rolling around for heavy vehicle hunting, perhaps you would like some light vehicle stopping power so autocannon may be the way to go. If you need some anti-horde that ahs the capacity for dealing with vehicles, ML is the better choice.

It should be noted that for single shot squads, if you're just looking for anti-infantry blasts, mortars are probably a better choice because they're 1/3 the cost, can ignore LoS, and force pinning checks.

Anyway, autocannon isn't as cut and dry as one might think. As an Ork player I have come to well love strength 7 shots in abundance, because lootas are the best I have.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Someguy said:


> To be honest, I hate this particular argument. It bears no relation to statistical fact.
> 
> If you are BS 3, half your shots will hit. Yes, if you fire more shots you will hit more often, but still only half the shots you fired will land. Any weapon that rolls to hit using BS will benefit equally from an increase in BS. BS does not alter the choice of what guns you should take.
> 
> ...


Not disagreeing at all (except for the personal preference)...the reason I like AC's is because some of mine are in my Vet Squads in Chimeras and I usually get an opportune shot off sometime during the game, and yy Hydras usually destroy the transport they shoot at.

Like most of these Threads it comes down to personal preference and local Metagame to what works best...Vendettas work for me over Lascannon HWT's, and that seems to be the case with the other dozen or so IG'ers in my area.:victory:


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