# what happened to chaos terminators?



## heretical by nature (Sep 22, 2009)

so what happened? ive literally seen them nowhere, theres no tacticas on them and ive never seen them in army lists, are they a new no go zone unit?


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

heretical by nature said:


> and ive never seen them in army lists


If you haven't seen them in any lists then perhaps you haven't been looking very hard:

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=121787
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=121758
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=121713 (Your list)
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=121596
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=121303
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=121223
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=121141
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120963
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120362
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120877
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120974
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120829
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120863
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120864
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120844

Thats about fourteen lists all containing terminators, all on the first page of the chaos marine lists section (fifteen if we include that one kill team list.)


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## TyphoidLmJ (May 20, 2012)

I still try to field ten or twenty when points allow. Accept no substitute. Then again, I dont tournament.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Don't have the models for them... yet. I look forward to running MoT termis w/ 2LCs and combi-meltas + power axes/chainfists eventually, though.

I'm on the verge of reaching them in the comprehensive codex tactica I'm writing; the Elites section is actually an overdue post at this point.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

They don't get much attention because the tactics that apply to them apply generally to most terminators with some minor exceptions. That and they are generally considered a meh unit in competitive settings. So in summation they get little attention from hard core competitive tactics, while at the same time being general enough to not attract terrible amounts of interest from casual gamers (They are kinda just there). However back last edition they did have a bunch of niche tactics due to reliable deep striking with combi-weapons, but as that is gone so is much of the reason to discuss them independent of the same old tactics used for any terminator. So in short people still use them, but there is so little to talk about that you hardly see them come up in forums.


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## heretical by nature (Sep 22, 2009)

Mossy Toes said:


> Don't have the models for them... yet. I look forward to running MoT termis w/ 2LCs and combi-meltas + power axes/chainfists eventually, though.
> 
> I'm on the verge of reaching them in the comprehensive codex tactica I'm writing; the Elites section is actually an overdue post at this point.


i just dug up my 4 man termie squad from 5th edition to go with my typhus model:
MoT w/ 3 Pairs of LCs and one with Heavy flamer and Chainfist which the rules dont allow now  (has to be 5 man for heavy flamer) which is a bit upsetting, im thinking of changing their mark to nurgle for the added toughness, but im still scratching my head as to what to do with the heavy flamer terminator...

i look forward to your Tactica, theyre always a great readk:


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

heretical by nature said:


> but im still scratching my head as to what to do with the heavy flamer terminator...


How about keep it? All thats preventing you from using him is the need for one more terminator, so you can't make some minor adjustments to your list to get another guy in? With the mark of Tzeentch or Nurgle thats still less than forty points you need to make.


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## heretical by nature (Sep 22, 2009)

darkreever said:


> How about keep it? All thats preventing you from using him is the need for one more terminator, so you can't make some minor adjustments to your list to get another guy in? With the mark of Tzeentch or Nurgle thats still less than forty points you need to make.


i would however, the idea was for typhus to accompany the 4 terminators in a land raider :\


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

heretical by nature said:


> i would however, the idea was for typhus to accompany the 4 terminators in a land raider :\


Ah well, when they are supposed to be in a land raider with Typhus then there is indeed a problem. Maybe consider an alternate list, one which makes use of your guard for Typhus and a second unit of terminators for the heavy flamer?


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## heretical by nature (Sep 22, 2009)

darkreever said:


> Ah well, when they are supposed to be in a land raider with Typhus then there is indeed a problem. Maybe consider an alternate list, one which makes use of your guard for Typhus and a second unit of terminators for the heavy flamer?


yeah thats definately a possibility, have to do a bit of thinking on it i reckon
 thanks for the help


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Honestly, I think I'm going to argue against MoN Termis in my tactica. Almost any weapon with AP2 (apart from, say, a power axe) is going to be wounding Termis easily enough that it doesn't justify the cost. Less small arms armor saves are always nice, but on Termis, aren't too much of a concern, really. Just stick Typhus in a squad of unmarked Termis and save on points, if you want to go competitive.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Chaos termis are great, combi plasma will ruin anybodies day. I still think they are one of the better units in the chaos elite section

There are 2 ways to use them With a character in a raider, tool up on CC weapons, I prefer DLCs with a MoS (This is expensive but gets the job done, MoS is needed to avoid dying to weight of numbers, don't fight other termis)

or a larger unit with combi-plasma. Deep strike and kill those pesky AA units to give your Heldrakes a field day, or those devastators. If fighting guard swap to combi meltas to kill those russes. For more take on all comers tourni lists take mix of plas/melt


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## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

When I've got the points to spend, I used to enjoy running two units of MoT terminators, one with combi plasmas and one with dual lightning claws. At the time I was facing a lot of power weapons and melta/plasma, so the extra invuln save really was a 'god'send. Looking to get the new codex when I get back from the sandpit, and maybe revitalise my chaos forces.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

I think CSM Termies suffer from severa issues.
Issue number 1 is lackluster shooting.
Raper ACs wont rape stuff, they are way worse then Assaultcannons/Cyclones of the loyalist counterpart, Combiplasmas to back them up or not. 1shot guns arent as attractive on expensive bearers as they are on cheap "fire-and-forget" units/models.

Issue number 2 is not only bad.
They do have more flexibility in the CC section which is nice, this can cut some corners with the price of the unit, but can also lead to a diluted unit that accidentally lost "important joe" and got boned in CC anyway.
They do however lack the Stormshields which makes Hammernators great which is bad.

Issue number 3 is a sore one.
No useful transport available. LR carries 5 and thats it. Crusaders take 8 which lets you have a beefy unit like 7 + character, thats a lot "more" then 4 + character. Add the fact that the Loylalist LRs are better in general and that the Crusader was built to move, unlike the Godhammer pattern which wastes a lot of Lascannons when it does.
They also lack access to Drop Pod which sucks for controlled insertions.

Issue 4 is somewhat like number 2, not only a problem.
Morale sucks, even more so on expensive units. CSM suffers from bad morale rules now, with a general drop in LD across the book and no SM rules to back it up a lot of your points can be sent packing.
Naturally you can put the boss here to prevent that, but then we are back to 4+boss if you want a ride, or left to hoof it across the table, which isnt what a CC friendly unit wants...



The old tried and true Termicide units are still good, if nothing else you can go for that. There is always some Vehicle that likes it some melta love on the table:wink:


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I didn't think that Typhus could join a unit with MoT, only units with MoN or Undivided?


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

normtheunsavoury said:


> I didn't think that Typhus could join a unit with MoT, only units with MoN or Undivided?


very much true with the new codex.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

MaidenManiac said:


> Issue 4 is somewhat like number 2, not only a problem.
> Morale sucks, even more so on expensive units. CSM suffers from bad morale rules now, with a general drop in LD across the book and no SM rules to back it up a lot of your points can be sent packing.
> Naturally you can put the boss here to prevent that, but then we are back to 4+boss if you want a ride, or left to hoof it across the table, which isnt what a CC friendly unit wants...


I thought CSM were all Ld8, with a minimal points investment for Ld9 and Hatred: Pretty-much-the-whole-game?



MaidenManiac said:


> The old tried and true Termicide units are still good, if nothing else you can go for that. There is always some Vehicle that likes it some melta love on the table:wink:


Agreed.

I think the main problem is that Terminators are unfortunately pretty crap in 6th, Chaos or no. They're FAR too quick to fold to small-arms to justify their high points cost, and to be honest when 5 Veterans with Feel No Pain and 4 Plasma Guns costs a full 50pts less than 5 Terminators (I play DA), I'd turn to the Veterans every single time. Terminators have Power Fists, but not the survivability to use them to full effectiveness - 2+ armour goes a long way if you roll saves like a boss, but lots of bodies in cover is so much more durable than a small number of high-quality Terminators it's unreal.

Midnight


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> I thought CSM were all Ld8, with a minimal points investment for Ld9 and Hatred: Pretty-much-the-whole-game?...


They are indeed, however all those minimal investments kind a adds up...

If you give a CSM Termie a PF he costs just like a SM termie. Differences here are storm/combi bolter which is ok either way. But you miss out on both combat squads and general SM morale rules. This is not reflected in the CSM termie cost.

As said Termies suffer in the game as it is, buying "worse" termies for the same points isnt a deal at all...
Its also kind of interesting that the cult units are fearless but not terminators/obliterators and the like...


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Uh..perhaps I missed something, but aren't chaos terminators leadership nine? And even with a powerfist, they are still cheaper than their loyalist counterparts.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

I don't play Chaos, but don't they come with "Power Weapons" allowing you to pick whatever weapon you want? some Axe's or Maul's are a nice setup, something regular Termies cannot do.


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