# Snipers, a more viable option?



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

In our new edition where it's easy to lose your ride, or where assaulting is only really done out of a massive tank or a fragile barge it seems that more units may be seen on foot. And with the improvements for the snipers (placing wounds, along with rending and pinning) they seem to be better than ever. 

The real question is, are the good enough to take now? Sure scout units have been seen on and off through 5th Edition, and Pathfinders, but what about Ratlings, or Tau Sniper Drones? 

Personally I see them being more useful/used but what do you guys think?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Can't target Characters - well, you can, but you don't want to. They have a 4+/2+ chance to ping wounds off onto non-entities. You can target Special Weapons and the like if you roll a 6 to hit. 50% to wound, 50% (or higher to ping off), BS3 (Scouts, is a further 50% off) - assuming MEQ, (33% chance of wounding) - that's a ~4% chance of actually killing your target. 

Edit~ forgot to take into account rending - but that doesn't actually up your chances much - a 9% chance of killing the model all told - and that's only on a character, on an IC, it's about a 3% chance - so using pure maths (rather than actual maths), you would have to fire 34 Sniper shots to actually wound said IC (assuming 3+ save, cba for 2+, but basically it doesn't get prettier - not to mention they typically have an Invulnerable against the rending hit) - and they typically have 3 wounds - if we say a conservative estimate of around 50 shots to actually wound, you'd need 150 sniper shots to actually kill the model.

Deathmarks have a reasonable chance of doing that - 3 maxed squads with Rapid Fire gives you 60 shots a turn, and potentially excellent accuracy for even more shots, but aside from that, it's say 3 Full Sniper Squads - firing at the same target for 5 whole turns and without them taking a wound.

With AP6 on most, you can't do too much to stop the enemy taking their armour save, and against low armour, they typically have enough weapons its not worth the effort.

Still, they got a much needed boost, and certain units which were already decent (Deathmarks, Pathfinders etc) only got better. But not ~that~ much better that they can perform a core part of the army, and I would wait until 1850, maybe 2K (when I can possibly have as allies).


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## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

There has never been anything bad with snipers, just that pinning was an utter waste of time as failing an ld test from shooting in 5th was NOT possible, ever.


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## Obinhi (Dec 30, 2008)

I use them in my CCS, I use the unit as a stationary fire base so I put master of ord, 4 snipers and the commander in a unit and use it for anti infantry/anti light open top vehicles. I like it, but some people would find it not good enought stats or math wise, I for one think its awesome.


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## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

I'll still likely use my Deathmark+Despair Cryptek combo against any TeQ units.

But yes, Snipers do seem a lot better this edition.


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## Obinhi (Dec 30, 2008)

The Sturk said:


> But yes, Snipers do seem a lot better this edition.


Honestly they should be when you think about it, when modern IRL snipers can shoot the block out of light transports and instagib just about everyone who walks outside.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

I'm glad to hear that I'm at least not imagining things then.

Yes the odds of placing wounds isn't all that high, or that you'll place a wound, and then rend with it, but it's a nifty thing. Additionally with Rending being AP2 the rending hits also get +1 on vehicle damage rolls and ignore 2+ saves (Oh, hai Sanguinary Guard and models with Artificer Armor!) looks like a nice deal in the new edition.


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## CattleBruiser (Sep 3, 2011)

Pathfinders are just way cooler, cause any wound they can place is already AP1.

I also don't think tau sniper drones count for this, as they arn't actually sniper. They just have a str 6 ap3 gun.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

CattleBruiser said:


> Pathfinders are just way cooler, cause any wound they can place is already AP1.
> 
> I also don't think tau sniper drones count for this, as they arn't actually sniper. They just have a str 6 ap3 gun.


Considering the age of the codex it's not too surprising then. I'm going to go ahead and bet that this will change in the future though.


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## Obinhi (Dec 30, 2008)

Ya, Tau need a codex badly now. Seeing as you can buy litteraly useless wargear now...

As an aside, dwarven gunners make awesome ratling snipers. A buddy of mine at the FLGS converted the dwarves with tissue paper for the camo cloaks and glued trimmed las power packs to the bottem of the blunderbus. It looked the shit and he paints like a deamon anyway so it looks better then anything I could make. I am planning on doing the same thing as soon as I get the funding. I would love to take a whole unit of snipers and overwatch with them, where every hit will allow you to remove who you want. F the sgt, I want the melta gun!


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

They should have made precision shots/strikes immune to "Look out Sir!"


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## Kelann08 (Nov 22, 2011)

The sniper change makes me consider bringing a second squad of five for a home objective camp. They are great for picking out special weapons and will be damn effective against MCs who aren't in units.



Da Joka said:


> They should have made precision shots/strikes immune to "Look out Sir!"


That would be overpowered.


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

Not really, how likely is it that you're gonna see a concealed sniper line up the shot on your leader? I mean, with infantry you can at least see the guy raise the rifle but snipers are usually on the other side of the battlefield and are designed to strike with pinpoint precision. It would be a travesty if GW don't make snipers immune to 'Look Out Sir'.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Because everyone knows battlefield is 'most realistic wargaming ever' and 6th edition shooting rules were finished during the bf3 beta where snipers had permanent lens glare mode; on.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Shattertheirsky said:


> Not really, how likely is it that you're gonna see a concealed sniper line up the shot on your leader? I mean, with infantry you can at least see the guy raise the rifle but snipers are usually on the other side of the battlefield and are designed to strike with pinpoint precision. It would be a travesty if GW don't make snipers immune to 'Look Out Sir'.


I'm just happy that 6th Edition has finally given snipers other than the Vindicare Assassin a chance to allocate wounds.


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## shaggy (Jul 9, 2009)

The best way to get around the look out sir rule is... Don't allocate to the character. There's a good chance he'll pull some "operation human shield" garbage so snipe the heavy weapon or special weapon. Is there a two wound model (blood crusher for example) with one wound down hiding behind his full health brother? Not any more! No, its not a guarantee, but it's still useful. I'm experimenting with guard special weapons squads (50pts) and ratlings (10 shots for 100 pts) for now with promising results as long as I keep my expectations reasonable. The right snipe at the right time can, in fact, be a game changer. 

Also, don't forget they're still the cheapest way to deal with MC's at range.


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## psactionman (Jul 1, 2012)

Sergeant Telion can allocate all of his wounds, even before 6th. But the point is still the same. How does that work anyway? You shoot, and roll a 6, then you roll to wound and then assign it or would you have to assign the 6 before rolling to wound?


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

I'm a little curious the, for Guard would the Autocannon be a good pairing with the Sniper rifle since it can add wounds and hurt the same things, or a Lascannon since it can aid in hurting vehicles that the sniper rifles fail to hurt and the things you need to kill but fail to Rend against? I can see merits in both, but I'm curious which one people recommend for 6th edition.


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## dander (Jan 13, 2008)

You can use mathhammer all day but you wont learn anything till you put it on the table. I used two full squads of Eldar pathfinders backed up by a farseer. These guys not only call shots on 6 but they are already Ap1. AP one on 5s to hit too. Then rending on wound rolls with the farseer giving rerolls on hit and wounds. I took out apothecaries, powerfists, special weapons and a few guard sergents. All in all they decided the game.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

dander said:


> You can use mathhammer all day but you wont learn anything till you put it on the table. I used two full squads of Eldar pathfinders backed up by a farseer. These guys not only call shots on 6 but they are already Ap1. AP one on 5s to hit too. Then rending on wound rolls with the farseer giving rerolls on hit and wounds. I took out apothecaries, powerfists, special weapons and a few guard sergents. All in all they decided the game.


Very nice! Eldar may be the exception not the rule on exactly -how- awesome 6th Edition has made the lowly sniper though. 

I'm starting to put together my shopping list for the Guard army I'm working on (Vostroyans, because they are something that isn't seen very often and could add all sorts of flavor), and Snipers are on my list, but it's a big debate for me if I should be looking at Ratlings for the number of Sniper Rifles they get, or elsewhere (Like Veterans) who get them in smaller numbers but can be set up to be harder to move. Not to mention you can give them orders to boot.


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