# WFB Tourney Assistance



## Partybear (Dec 16, 2010)

Hey guys im going to my first wfb tournament in a few weeks and was interested if any of the more seasoned warhammer players can give me any assistance about any sly tricks or cheap moves in tournaments which are commonplace in 8th edition?(even if you use them yourself! :secret Iv heard some armies are broken due to change of rules in 8th.
Am i over worrying or am i just going to see loads of wizards casting purple sun? Iv only played with friends and in lgs until now so any comments are of interest to me.

(Tournament is using 5 games each one of the standard missions from the rulebook)


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Depending on the point level, 5 games may be too much. However, as for tricks, just make sure you have read through and bring the FAQ's, especially one for each army. Purple Sun may be slinging around, but considering what you have to do to do it, it's a bit situational on who you're facing.


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## Partybear (Dec 16, 2010)

sorry yes its 2000pts i play orcs and goblins but i usually go orc heavy i just dont like goblins for some reason.
I was interested if there are any cheeselists or powerbuilds to look out for which are in common use in competitions currently.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Teclis, gunlines, Slave-spam, Lizardmen super-blocks, etc. Ban special characters and power-scrolls and you'll have most of the cheese accounted for though.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Most evil thing I know is a flying vampire with ghoulkin (or whichever the free ghoul movement thing is), a power scroll and purple sun.

'Scout' move, 20" fly turn 1 to get amid your army and then 6 dice power scroll on purple sun to send a higher casting (large blast) down the enemy lines. Its nasty for every army, but potentially game ending vs any army with low initiative (ogres, dwarves, other VC...).
If the VC player has a second, lv4 vampire with death magic and master of the black arts (or whichever gives 2PD a turn) then there is basically nothing you can do to stop them doing this... but the VC player might role a misfire on the purple sun.


Basically this is an illustration of why power scroll is unspeakably nasty... and band by a lot of tournies. Power scrolled purple sun, dweller's below or even final transmutation (or mebbe a few other spells) can really change a game, very rapidly.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

It really depends a lot on the culture. In our area, Texas and Arkansas region has seven Indy GTs and one special tourney (5 to 6 rounds of combat with seeding each round) with 30 to 96 players (many top-ranked). We also have more local three-round, one day tourneys in the major cites (Houston, Dallas-Fort Worth, and Austin) regularly. At all these tourneys the army lists are submitted and approved in advance. Additionally, certain magic items (folding fortress, power scroll and book of hoeth) and either all special characters or the lord level special characters are banned explicitly. Because our tournaments have a particular culture and one has the ability to give a "bad" game vote to each opponent as well as give one best game vote to one opponent in the tourney, there is a lot of discipline in not taking broken armies and playing fair, especially since sports scores factor into the overall resutls. We are finding that there is a lot more balance in 8h edition than even in 7th edition. In more "power-gamer" environments, there needs to be a comp system like the ETC rules to balance the armies brought to the tourney or else such tourneys are not really worth playing in my opinion. In fact, in our area a lot of the best players (nationally ranked) won't play 'Ard Boyz tourneys for that reason. 

Broken or very tough combos or things to look out for at 2500 points include: 

1. The power scroll with dreaded 13th spell on a skaven grey seer is broken against armies with infantry units with characters in them. If an infantry unit is down to 13 or 14 models and has a general or BSB or caster in it, the dreaded 13th can kill the whole unit, including the characters with 90%+ probability. 

2. Lore of Life can be overpowered due to throne of vines reducing the risks of miscasts and having the most potent anti-horde spell in dwellers. Dwellers autokills with no saves each model in a unit that fails a strength test. Due to dwellers and final transmutation, the ETC rules allow a look out sir for characters in a unit hit by such spells and some of our local tourneys are beginning to consider that rule of treating spells that make all models in the unit test as though they were template hits and allow a look our sir to avoid almost autowins. The power scroll can also be broken with a lore of life caster. 

3. High elf armies often run a lvl 4 that is ethereal but also makes all magic weapons in combat mundane and then puts the world banner (making the unit immune to magic) obn the unit with the lvl 4. The most broken version puts Teclis with lore of life or shadow in a folding fortress with the BSB and another character in a unit with like a 100+ archers with the world banner (making the unit immune to magic). The rules for assaulting buildings will make it almost impossible to kill enough archers to actually get to the characters and win any VPs and the assaulting unit(s) will get shot up by the archers and killed by magic enough for the high elf army to win unless one can somehow just stay out of range and play for a draw. The Book of Hoeth with Lore of Life on a Level 4 in a phoenix guard unit is another broken trick. 

4. Empire can be cheesy with an archlector on a war alter with speculum (gives extra dispel dice and very difficult to kill), a lvl 4 lore of life caster, mortars and cannons with engineers in range to allow re-rolls, and two steam tanks. 

5. A dwarf army with large warrior blocks or gunlines, a runelord (additional dispel dice plus rune of balance to steal one of your power dice to add one dispel dice and dispel runes), an organ gun, a grudge thrower with +2 strength wounds, and two cannons with re-roll misfires and one or two with flaming rune can seem really unfair and can be not very fun to play against. This is especially true in certain scenarios where the dwarf army can bunk back in a corner and/or when one does not have an army with the ability to get to the war machines without getting shot up too much to kill the war machines. 

6. A maxed out Slann with lore of life, shadow or metal with loremaster (knows all spells in the lore) in a temple guard bunker (stubborn) can be very tough to beat because the Slann gets one extra power dice per casting attempt, can shut down one caster within 24 inches with becalming (all 6's rolled in casting attempts are ignored). Then they run salamander units (multiple sallies with extra skinks to avoid loss due to miscasts) that can march and shoot (skirmisher rule) and hit your massed troops with flaming template hits with S3 -3 AS hits. They can run chameleon skinks (scouts and skirmishers that can march and shoot with poisoned shooting) that can take out war machines with the poison hits (every roll of a 6 to hit is an autowound). 

7. Daemons of chaos with bloodletter hordes (have killing blow and S5) with heralds of khorne (give units hatred and eith re-roll to wound ro flaming sword with +1S and 3+ AS), with multiple units of 6 flamers (3 to 6 flamers per unit, skirmishers) that can march and shoot, heralds of tzeentch (one with lore of life and the other with light or beasts or tzeentch) with master of sorcery (know all spells in a chosen lore) run either in the flamer or horror units, fleshhounds, and maybe a bloodthirster (vulnerable to certain war machines but very tough in combat) can be broken against some armies. They have a banner that makes all units within 12' of the BSB stubborn and re-roll leadership. Because the units never flee and only crumble (take wounds) based on the amount of failed break tests, the stubborn banner and BSB with a good LD character or general can make the units such that one has to kill all the models in order to win. If they are allowed special characters, look out for changeling (swaps stats with model in base contact) with skulltaker (strong challenger) in a unit of horrors and kairos is a broken caster but killable if one can get past the 3+ ward save. Also, look at blue scribes. At 2000 points, the daemon lords cannot be played. 

8. Dark Elves have an "unkillable" dreadlord with up to a 1+ armour save and the pendant of k (reverse ward save based on strength of attack) with crown of command (stubborn) and whip of agony (+1 attack, S5 attacks unmodifiable and AP) and a lvl 4 sorceress with sac dagger (can sacrifice one model in unit for an extra power dice to roll after seeing the initial casting result) and hydras (very nasty with flaming breath weapon, 7 S5 attacks, 6 S3 AP attacks from the beastmasters that cannot be attacked, and thunderstomp with regen and 4+ AS). At 2000 points, one cannot max out both a dreadlord and lvl 4 sorc at the same time and cannot employ all the tricks. 

9. Skaven armies with hordes of skaven slaves in front of units with BSB and grey seer (given the slaves re-rolls and high LD for break tests and slaves will be steadfast as long as they have more ranks) with warp lightning cannons and hellpit aboms can be very tough to deal with. 

10. Warriors of chaos can run a block of chaos chosen with two warshrines and a character with a favour of the gods item that allows one ot modify the roll on the eye of the gods table with the the war shrines and chosen. The chaos chosen have a high armour save and a 6+ ward save with the mark of tzeen tch and a magic banner. They get a free initial roll on the eye of the gods table (which gives a gift of the gods based on 2D6 rolls with re-rolls for duplicative gifts). By accumulating gifts and using the favour of the gods item, one can force re-rolls on the eye of the gods table until one rolls an 11 or 12 from one of the war shrines. With favour of the gods, a roll of 11 or 12 gives the chosen unit stubborn and a 4+ ward save which becomes a 3+ ward save with mark of tzeentch. Sometimes players use the war shrines to buff a block of chaos knights with mounted characters instead of chaos chosen. This strategy can be hit or miss but, if successful, will make the army almost unbeatable. Also, the Throgg special character makes chaos trolls core choices, confers leadership and re-rolls, and chaos trolls have synergy with war shrines. 

Hope that helps some. There is so much more to look out for or understand that is beyond the above discussion. Search for the draft ETC (European Team Champ) rules and look at the units that are limited, the threads complaining of nasty tricks, and the army specific restrictions to get an idea as to what to look out for. 

BTW an orc and goblin army with a horde of savage orc biguns, a unit with the BSB and general with boar boyz screened by a unit of 8+ trolls, and night goblin shamans (with those mushrooms and with ward saves) can be quite tough to deal with and can be competitive but is not top tier. Some like the lower cost wolf riders and wolf chariots for flanking. 

In our region, the top tier armies, even with limited restrictions and at 2500 points, are skaven, lizardmen, dark elves, and daemons of chaos. Certain builds of warriors of chaos, dwarves, orc and goblins in the new book, vampire counts (magic heavy vampires with grave guard and ghouls at the heart of the army), and empire are able to place and occasionally win tourneys and battles against the top tier armies. High elves without special characters seem to do well but never seem able to go 5-0 or 4-0-1 and more often seem to go 3-2. With special characters allowed high elves become top tier and have broken builds at and above 2000 points. Daemons struggle with legacy bad game votes (when they were perceived as unfair and broken in 7th edition) in our area that limit the max armies from being played and are limited by the expensive greater daemons that cannot be run with units and are, thus, vulnerable to cannons and certain magic.


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## Partybear (Dec 16, 2010)

wow thanks guys thats some great tips especially olderplayer! thanks for that my tourny is at the end of the month so il post up the results to let you know how i do, im off to go learn how to deal with at least a few of these scenarios! 
Wish me luck!!


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