# Did the Emporere make a mistake by not telling the primarchs about chaos?



## XXTerminus DecreeXX (Jan 25, 2014)

Hey new here so don't know if this thread has been done before. I know that the Emporer did not want to tell his sons about the Warp, but do you feel it was a mistake on his part by not telling them what they would be fighting against and what temptations would be given to them. I think the battle between Temba and Horus is a great example. If Horus had known what he was up against he would have been better prepared for the fight and might have possibly won. So do you think the Emperor made a mistake by not telling the primarchs?


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

Emperor has made quite a few mistakes overall like letting angron become cray cray, slaughtering thousand sons even though they meant the best, not giving good spanking to lorgar. 

However i am amazed that primarchs did not know about chaos power's i was quite sure they were at least aware of them. I did not read HH series yet so i cant say much


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

The Khan knew about it. It's part of the reason why they fell out. The Khan didn't like the fact that everything the Emperor had built was on the back of a lie. If the SW rune priests know about it, Russ knows something about it, even if he thinks of it somewhat differently. And of course Magnus arrogantly believed he was its master. 

He may have saved some major grief by sitting them down and informing and warning them about it instead of letting some of them stumble across it and fall prey to its temptations.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

A bit outdated now, but there are a couple of threads on this topic here and here.

Some interesting answers in there.


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## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

The Emp. looked at defeating Chaos through ignorance. I am sure the secular truth did not allow for Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. The twist in 40k is that both Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are real (but in a very horrific form).

If no one believes in chaos it does not exist, hence only through ignorance could the Emp. defeat Chaos.


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## Thrud (Jun 23, 2012)

Zooey72 said:


> The Emp. looked at defeating Chaos through ignorance. I am sure the secular truth did not allow for Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. The twist in 40k is that both Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are real (but in a very horrific form).
> 
> If no one believes in chaos it does not exist, hence only through ignorance could the Emp. defeat Chaos.


This is not accurate.

Chaos is "powered" through emotion, the Warp being psychoactive. Belief may affect it to some degree, but ignorance has no real affect. Slannesh was "created" through the Eldars collective heightened emotional state of debauchery, not through worship.

The Emperor clearly has a plan, perhaps some way to block Chaos form entering the material plane (and vice versa). I don't think it involved destroying all sentience within the warp.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

They weren't ready


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## kharn130 (Dec 7, 2013)

the emperor did have a plan to remove chaos, that was originally why he went back to Terra, to study it. and then the golden throne was made to hold back chaos, which it does, it keeps back most chaos but daemons can still manifest themselves for some time.... but the emperor really should have told them, since most turned because of the fact the Emperor lied about there being no gods.... or daemons so powerful as to be likened to a god.


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

kharn130 said:


> the emperor did have a plan to remove chaos, that was originally why he went back to Terra, to study it. and then the golden throne was made to hold back chaos


Nope. He went back to Terra to work on the Imperial Webway project, which Magnus royally screwed up when he tried to psychically warn the Emperor of Horus's betrayal. Thats what the Golden Throne was originally meant for, was for Magnus to sit upon it and keep the path stable.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

DeathJester921 said:


> Nope. He went back to Terra to work on the Imperial Webway project, which Magnus royally screwed up when he tried to psychically warn the Emperor of Horus's betrayal. Thats what the Golden Throne was originally meant for, was for Magnus to sit upon it and keep the path stable.


I thought it was to maintain the astronomicon while the emp put the finishing touches on the web way.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

locustgate said:


> I thought it was to maintain the astronomicon while the emp put the finishing touches on the web way.


Because the Emperor couldn't replicate the material of the webway, and thus couldn't directly access the network by conventional means, he had to use his psychic powers (via the Golden Throne) in order to create an artificial bridge which hacked into the network. This, however, required him to utilise a vast portion of his psychic powers and concentration on maintaining the artificial bridge. 

The Emperor (apparently) intended Magnus to sit on the Golden Throne in his stead to maintain this artificial bridge and thus allow Imperial forces access to the wider webway.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Its funny, that the Emperor wanted to use this Webway so badly for galaxy dominance, but its only a mediocre escape rout to the dying Eldar lol.


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## Ecumene (Oct 10, 2013)

Emperor had made quite a lot of irreversible mistakes during Heresy era. One of Emperor's fatal mistakes is his incomprehensible secrecy about Webway project, about existence of Chaos and about role of Astartes in the post-crusade era galaxy. Regardless of His numerous vices and errors, He is essentially a well-intentioned extremist, and although I personally disagree-even hate-some of his drastic methods I esteem him highly.

But fundamentally, Emperor's plans and conducts have a few of undeniable, crucial merits. And I consider it is not ineffective way to prevent baleful influence and ultimately defeat Chaos effectively, at least in principle; that is why Ruinous powers sensed ontological threat posed by Emperor and resolved to eliminate him from the cosmic game board by any means necessary, even if it means they have to cease addictive, chronic Great Game at least _for centuries_. 

1. Extermination/Containment of Xenos-It works. It does week Chaos. It is well-known fact that thoughts and emotions _do_ empower Chaos. Countless Xenos pocket-empires actively worship, or at least utilize power of Chaos, actually. According to some source materials, even the presence of Orks effects/strengthens chaos gods substantially, especially Khorne. Only Tau are irrelevant to Chaos in any way.

2. Eradication of religious faith-It works. If I know correctly, though it is true that all kinds of thoughts and emotions empower chaos, but direct worships and reverences reinforce Chaos Gods more than any other means. Also collateral destruction of galaxy-wide Chaos Cult and various chaos related religions is a good thing to humanity, and by extension, whole of the universe.

3. End of the Old Night and rise of the Imperial Truth-Besides multidimensional benefits proposed by enlightened, centralized secular government system and science-oriented, civilized, ordered, uniformed rational society(although it is enforced by the dictator-Emperor), tenets of Imperial Truth makes easy to maintain/oversee mass, also reduce risk of Chaos corruption greatly. In addition wealthy citizens and affluent society tend to lower various malcontent elements-in other word, potential Chaos fanatics-significantly. Although I personally prefer knowledge than ignorance. As Sun Tzu said, if you know your enemy and know thyself, you could win every battle-as I said, obsessive concealment of Chaos, even to the his irreplaceable twenty sons, was His greatest failure. 

4. Unification of humanity and restoration of their Galactic Supremacy-Well, it is one of the his main goals, and arguably his greatest feat. To the majority of humankind, it is generally a nice thing. And to the Chaos, it is a terrible thing. Because Emperor's grand vision of a stable, unified Milky Way galaxy depriving Chaos virtually all of primary sources of their twisted, unwholesome power-such as war, conflict, suffering, torment, madness and blind faith.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Ecumene said:


> that is why Ruinous powers sensed ontological threat posed by Emperor and resolved to eliminate him from the cosmic game board by any means necessary,


It also had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he made a deal with them, and then backed out on his part when he got what he wanted.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

darkreever said:


> It also had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he made a deal with them, and then backed out on his part when he got what he wanted.


I can't imagine the Chaos Gods wouldn't have foreseen this between them (otherwise E would be a more capricious/scheming being than the Chaos Gods!), so didn't they get what they wanted as well? Scattering the Primarchs and sowing the seeds that would push them to betrayal, which later sparks an endless war to feed the Gods, rather than just worship from a unified, invincible Chaos Imperium. We know they prefer the former from the Alpha Legion's reasoning for joining Horus (make sure he fully wins so there's no endless Chaos-food), and the very fact that Horus was allowed to fail only after tearing the Imperium in half (Chaos-food).

It feels like the Emperor tried to completely destroy Chaos rather than just mitigating the damage it can cause. It's always going to feed off emotions (hence Slaanesh), E trying to spread his secular truth was an attempt to cut this off from the source but fundamentally it couldn't succeed (worship not required, just feelings). Maybe he had some final tricks up his sleeve that would have made it possible - a super-powered Golden Throne to hold back all daemons from the Warp, and then throw in the use of the Webway to ensure no use of the Warp, Black Ships rounding up psykers, and the Imperial Truth so nobody finds out about the Chaos Gods and tries to create a link to the Warp. But from what we can see it's less that E made poor decisions but more that he made good decisions toward an impossible goal, making the fall all the harder.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> I can't imagine the Chaos Gods wouldn't have foreseen this between them (otherwise E would be a more capricious/scheming being than the Chaos Gods!), so didn't they get what they wanted as well?


If I remember right, up until they made a deal with the Emperor the chaos gods had had very little interaction with the material realm. The Emperor, somehow, did know a bit more and tricked them; getting the power they had agreed to give while reneging on whatever his end of the bargain was (and because of their limitations outside of the warp they were not able to retaliate.)

Things like scattering the primarchs and then ultimately turning them would have been their revenge, and stopping the Emperor from achieving all of his own goals.


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## Ecumene (Oct 10, 2013)

darkreever said:


> It also had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he made a deal with them, and then backed out on his part when he got what he wanted.


I cannot know clearly what are you trying to say to me, but to expound upon my opinion about Emperor-Chaos connection issue, judging by multiple source materials it seems pretty obvious that Primarchs are made from substance of Warp. I regard Primarchs are some sort of hybrid race; their soul is made from particular aspects of Emperor's own boundless soul(that could explain luculently why each and every Primarchs inherit a portion of Emperor's gifts and disposition), and their body is made from Emperor and his terran scientists by combining together Golden Age of Technology-era science and means of forbidden Warp Magick(assuredly, Emperor must know about mechanism of Empyrean thoroughly even without intervention or assistance of Chaos for anything). In short, Primarchs are metaphorical union of Materium and Immaterium-although it is mere personal speculation, no more and no less.

According to Chaos(and Magnus the Red after Burning of Prospero), Primarchs are created by a clandestine compact between Emperor and Ruinous Powers. However we all know only too well deamons are incorrigibly perfidious, scheming creatures. They constantly lie and deceive without any scruple or compunction. Moreover deamons have no reason to say fine things about Anathema for all the world. And above all things, as far as I know, there are absolutely no any conclusive proofs or explicit, objective references or Words of God about supposed 'duplicity' of the Emperor. I think it is premature to beg the question 'Primarchs are created by means of Warp, thus Emperor _must_have dealt with Ruinous Powers' before irrefutable, veritable evidences are adduced.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

darkreever said:


> If I remember right, up until they made a deal with the Emperor the chaos gods had had very little interaction with the material realm. The Emperor, somehow, did know a bit more and tricked them; getting the power they had agreed to give while reneging on whatever his end of the bargain was (and because of their limitations outside of the warp they were not able to retaliate.)
> 
> Things like scattering the primarchs and then ultimately turning them would have been their revenge, and stopping the Emperor from achieving all of his own goals.


Ah ok, I didn't know they'd stayed dormant(ish) until Big E came along - so I'm guessing Slaanesh was more a passive thing and didn't involve daemon invasions/Chaos followers but was just the raw emotion, right? It makes sense now I think of it - the Eldar couldn't worship a god that didn't yet exist!

That's interesting. It begs the question - why wait until post-E deal to get involved in the material realm? Could an explanation be that they were waiting for the E to come to them because they'd foreseen the whole thing? (particularly if E has half the Warp-shadow his abilities would suggest).


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## Ecumene (Oct 10, 2013)

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> Ah ok, I didn't know they'd stayed dormant(ish) until Big E came along - so I'm guessing Slaanesh was more a passive thing and didn't involve daemon invasions/Chaos followers but was just the raw emotion, right? It makes sense now I think of it - the Eldar couldn't worship a god that didn't yet exist!
> 
> That's interesting. It begs the question - why wait until post-E deal to get involved in the material realm? Could an explanation be that they were waiting for the E to come to them because they'd foreseen the whole thing? (particularly if E has half the Warp-shadow his abilities would suggest).


As I said above, my stance is a little skeptical about entire Emperor-Chaos bargaining premises. But if it is indeed true, it gives an interesting hypothesis; in fact, it is not my opinion. It is an acquaintance's. And I revised it slightly to adjust discussion subject accordingly. Anyway, for the most part, I agree with this argument:

I think Emperor was in fact well aware of his sons' flaws, and that he was even aware of the possibility of some of them becoming corrupted by Chaos.

The way I see it, the Emperor and Chaos were in a stalemate: the Emperor wanted to eliminate the main threats to mankind's survival (i.e. Chaos and the various dangerous xenos), while Chaos wanted to extend its power to the Materium. But neither had the power to overcome the other (Chaos couldn't stand against the Emperor in the Materium, and the Emperor could not overwhelm Chaos within the Warp), so they both sides were firmly stuck.

That's when the Emperor set up the Primarch Project and decided to bargain with Chaos; the Emperor would create twenty demigods that could actually help him break the stalemate, and in exchange for getting a proper opportunity to tempt and corrupt the Primarchs, Chaos would let this happen. The deal was sealed, and the infant Primarchs were taken by the powers of the Warp and scattered throughout the galaxy.

This is mostly just conjecture on my part, but I do think that this explains quite nicely why the Emperor treated the likes Angron and Lorgar the way he did – not only was he fully aware that this would push them towards treason and Chaos; this was in fact his intention. The Emperor knew that some of his sons would fall to Chaos and that a Chaos-fueled insurrection was coming sooner or later, so he tried to guide the whole process by all but pushing certain Primarchs into the arms of Chaos. Lorgar and Angron were purposely sacrificed so that the Emperor could win this game against Chaos.

But then Chaos and its servants actually managed to do the impossible by corrupting Horus, the very last Primarch the Emperor expected to fall. Thus the Big E's grand plan was utterly shattered, and the Heresy could do as much damage as it did because of that.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

Ecumene said:


> As I said above, my stance is a little skeptical about entire Emperor-Chaos bargaining premises. But if it is indeed true, it gives an interesting hypothesis; in fact, it is not my opinion. It is an acquaintance's. And I revised it slightly to adjust discussion subject accordingly. Anyway, for the most part, I agree with this argument:
> 
> I think Emperor was in fact well aware of his sons' flaws, and that he was even aware of the possibility of some of them becoming corrupted by Chaos.
> 
> ...


Hmm, interesting theory. You're saying he knew a Chaos insurrection was inevitable, so he tried to "fix the fight" as it were by pushing certain, hopefully incompatible Primarchs to Chaos? But then Horus was not part of the plan, and he was able to unite the various incompatible factions together. Definitely a possibility.

Oh, and RE: Chaos bargain being canon, I believe it's covered in First Heretic from the Heresy series (incredible read either way, Dembski-Bowden is a god).


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## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

It is hard to say if the Emperor made any mistakes. The question that has not come up is "what is the Emp's goal?"

I do not believe for a second that the Emperor had no idea the Heresy was going to happen. "Horus Rising", the first book about the heresy, shows he knew exactly what was going on. No one could understand why Rogal Dorn and his legion were being recalled to Terra to fortify the planet. Horus thought he may have been in trouble. Calling back Dorn (the best defensive Primarch of the bunch) makes about as much sense as Roosevelt calling back Mcarthur to fortify Washington DC right before we dropped the A-bomb on Japan. The Great Crusade was over, we won.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

Zooey72 said:


> It is hard to say if the Emperor made any mistakes. The question that has not come up is "what is the Emp's goal?"
> 
> I do not believe for a second that the Emperor had no idea the Heresy was going to happen. "Horus Rising", the first book about the heresy, shows he knew exactly what was going on. No one could understand why Rogal Dorn and his legion were being recalled to Terra to fortify the planet. Horus thought he may have been in trouble. Calling back Dorn (the best defensive Primarch of the bunch) makes about as much sense as Roosevelt calling back Mcarthur to fortify Washington DC right before we dropped the A-bomb on Japan. The Great Crusade was over, we won.


 You make a good point. I have also never bought into the belief that the Emperor was completely blind to what was going to happen. In fact, even if he was blind in matters of divination because of the Gods, then he was also easily intelligent enough to realize that the Gods were behind it and thus something was up.

For me, I believe the shock came not with the Heresy but who led it. Horus was like a son to him and no doubt the Emperor raised him and indoctrinated him with the mindset that Horus would be his greatest son -- the one to keep his brothers in modest check. As an added assurance he turned Russ into the Executioner incase even Horus got out of line.

I have a hard time believing the Emperor ever believed the likes of Angron or Curze were ever loyal. For them it was always a matter of time until they rebelled. Both of these primarchs were very broken and the Emperor no doubt saw right through him.

Another reason to believe the Emperor knew something would happen is because he was constructing the Imperial Webway. If ever there was a time for the Gods to use their ace it was prior to the Emperor completing his project. Had it succeeded, then Humanity would be free of the Warp. Also we must remember the Lost Primarchs, the two that were created by GW for us. Lore wise they are believed to either have been lost in the Warp, killed prior to discovery, or executed by Russ. Primarchs may have rebelled long before Horus got corrupted.


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## Scrad (Apr 4, 2014)

Zooey72 said:


> No one could understand why Rogal Dorn and his legion were being recalled to Terra to fortify the planet. Horus thought he may have been in trouble. Calling back Dorn (the best defensive Primarch of the bunch) makes about as much sense as Roosevelt calling back Mcarthur to fortify Washington DC right before we dropped the A-bomb on Japan. The Great Crusade was over, we won.


To fortify Terra for the conclusion of the webway project. Something that would still require a vast amount of resources and lives to maintain and explore. The Eldar wouldn't have taken this intrusion lightly - plus whatever else is roaming through the webway. The Emperor wanted to fortify his base of operations to push with his next stage of the Crusade and limit use of the warp in one fell swoop.


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## Ecumene (Oct 10, 2013)

BlackGuard said:


> You make a good point. I have also never bought into the belief that the Emperor was completely blind to what was going to happen. In fact, even if he was blind in matters of divination because of the Gods, then he was also easily intelligent enough to realize that the Gods were behind it and thus something was up.
> 
> For me, I believe the shock came not with the Heresy but who led it. Horus was like a son to him and no doubt the Emperor raised him and indoctrinated him with the mindset that Horus would be his greatest son -- the one to keep his brothers in modest check. As an added assurance he turned Russ into the Executioner incase even Horus got out of line.
> 
> ...


I agree. I always think Emperor is well acquainted with potential Heresy.

Actually, Emperor is not blinded about His Primarch's possible corruption. Quite opposite, if anything. That is why Wolf King's Wyrd is executioner; it is explicitly said in HH series that Russ _is made_ to be Emperor's executioner, like Horus is made to be Emperor's Warmaster; according to Ulvuruth Heoroth, Horus was not become Warmaster because Emperor particularly favored him more than any other sons. Because his Wyrd is Commanding Army, and becoming Warmaster is his destiny. 

I consider Angron, Curze, and even Lorgar are ultimately disposables. Emperor actually predicted some of his sons will rebel against rule of Terra and prepared accordingly. In fact he already executed two Primarchs, destroyed two Legions and expunged their whole memories and records from universe.
Even their statues are removed; despite traitor Primarchs' are not. But he could not anticipate that Horus himself and half of the remaining Primarchs will become traitor and plunge Imperium to Chaos. Horus is His one of the few blind spots. And Ruinous Powers actually accomplished an impossibility. Thus Emperor made a critical mistake by assuming some of his sons are incorruptible and, even if they are corruptible, he could deal with them accordingly.


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## Ecumene (Oct 10, 2013)

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> Hmm, interesting theory. You're saying he knew a Chaos insurrection was inevitable, so he tried to "fix the fight" as it were by pushing certain, hopefully incompatible Primarchs to Chaos? But then Horus was not part of the plan, and he was able to unite the various incompatible factions together. Definitely a possibility.
> 
> Oh, and RE: Chaos bargain being canon, I believe it's covered in First Heretic from the Heresy series (incredible read either way, Dembski-Bowden is a god).


Hmm, I have collected whole of the HH series, and already read The First Heretic. However it is actually a long time ago; thus my memory could be impaired/or false. But if I remember correctly, Word Bearers are sent back through time-I don't think it is a mere fabricated illusion, but it could still have distorted or overlapped by itself, or intervention of some powerful Entities-and during their journey, saw full account of Primarch project, or manipulated to believe what Chaos want to show. Entire 'Primarchs are sons of _both_ Emperor and Chaos Gods, Emperor and Chaos Gods sealed a contract, and then Emperor violated it' premise is said by no other than deamon prince of Slannesh, Ingethel. Thus, in that sense, I reread that brilliant book's controversial Part two, the Pilgrimage-which virtually constitutes the discussed matter-just now, and compiled it accordingly;



Ecumene said:


> You have seen nothing yet, but you already judge what is best for your species?
> ‘What more is there to see?’ asked Argel Tal.
> Ingethel beckoned with its gnarled fingers. Close your eyes.
> ‘No.’ The captain took a calming breath. ‘I am finished with blind indulgence. Tell me what you wish to show us.’
> ...


If all of these narrations are GW-approved official canon, Emperor-Chaos Bargaining Theory leaves no room for questions. But this alone is not enough. Not at all. All of these descriptions are purely based on a deamon's remarks, and listeners are WB Legionnaires; why they bore no doubts and raised any question about Ingethel's veracity? They just listened, resented, agreed, and then 'enlightened'. As far as I know, only BL authors know the exact truth, and there is always possibility yet to be determined even among collaborators. Emperor-Chaos bargaining have been confirmed/ascertained as a firmly established canon(not possibility, but incontrovertible fact) by ADB or others? 


p.s The First Heretic had said about 'Fate'. Scars said about the same fate and by extension, twisted fate(according to Scars, fate decreed Fulgrim to be sent to Chogoris and Jaghatai Khan to Chemos and certain arcane force in the universe prevented it somehow; Magnus also said "stories may meander, but the endings never change. Believe me, I have witnessed the _authors_"). It proposes us an interesting suggestion-because it means Heresy is predestined catastrophe after all; thus both players knew well about price and conducted appropriately. As already said, I personally endorse this theory; though I dissent necessary contract and subsequent 'betrayal' between Emperor and Chaos.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> Its funny, that the Emperor wanted to use this Webway so badly for galaxy dominance, but its only a mediocre escape rout to the dying Eldar lol.


The webway is certainly not a 'mediocre escape route' for the Eldar, without it they would likely have slipped into extinction long ago. 



Ecumene said:


> Emperor had made quite a lot of irreversible mistakes during Heresy era.


I think such an opinion is very hard to support with clear evidence. We don't know what the Emperor's ultimate plans and intentions were, we don't know what his reasoning was for deceiving his sons and lying to his empire. We have never had an insight into the Emperor's mind or thought-processes, and based on a recent quote by AD-B it doesn't look like we ever will - certainly not in the upcoming _Master of Mankind_ anyway.



darkreever said:


> If I remember right, up until they made a deal with the Emperor the chaos gods had had very little interaction with the material realm.


"Shattered worlds and long-forgotten civilisations dot the galaxy as testament to whole species that fell into damnation or destroyed themselves in the service of Chaos. Of these, the greatest were the Eldar - a race that once spanned the galaxy, now reduced to a few survivors adrift upon the cold void." - Page 24 Daemons Codex.

There is no reason to believe Chaos had little interaction with the galaxy pre-Emperor. 



Ecumene said:


> IAccording to Chaos(and Magnus the Red after Burning of Prospero), Primarchs are created by a clandestine compact between Emperor and Ruinous Powers. However we all know only too well deamons are incorrigibly perfidious, scheming creatures. They constantly lie and deceive without any scruple or compunction. Moreover deamons have no reason to say fine things about Anathema for all the world. And above all things, as far as I know, there are absolutely no any conclusive proofs or explicit, objective references or Words of God about supposed 'duplicity' of the Emperor. I think it is premature to beg the question 'Primarchs are created by means of Warp, thus Emperor _must_have dealt with Ruinous Powers' before irrefutable, veritable evidences are adduced.


Spoilers from the upcoming HH novel _Vengeful Spirit_:


I haven't read it myself but apparently the novel effectively confirms the Emperor's bargain with the Chaos Gods.




Ecumene said:


> Quite opposite, if anything. That is why Wolf King's Wyrd is executioner; it is explicitly said in HH series that Russ _is made_ to be Emperor's executioner, like Horus is made to be Emperor's Warmaster


The acknowledgement comes from the Space Wolves though, not from any central Imperial command.


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## Ecumene (Oct 10, 2013)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The webway is certainly not a 'mediocre escape route' for the Eldar, without it they would likely have slipped into extinction long ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks you for letting me know-thus it is confirmed fact after all. Thus Emperor was truly duplicitous and perfidious person. My meager faith in His integrity is shattered utterly. I am quite dejected now. And I am really ashamed; I unwittingly committed a cardinal sin; namely antilogy. If the deamon's unilateral claims are dubious, thus lose credibility, Wolves claims must be either.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The webway is certainly not a 'mediocre escape route' for the Eldar, without it they would likely have slipped into extinction long ago.


I was not being totally serious about the comment. Yes the Web Way is a safe form of travel than the Warp, something the Emp wanted to cut off reliance wise completely as we know. Also the Web Way allows you to make accurate attacks while by passing space defenses all together as well.

Its a useful tool, but not a game changer in anyway as the Eldar use of it is only slowing down their extinction, and the Imperials as well Space Marines operate just fine without it as well.

IMO the Emp wasted valuable time on a minor project.


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## Scrad (Apr 4, 2014)

Instantaneous and safe travel for one of the most populous humanoid races is hardly not a game changer.
The Emperor knew he had to ween humanity off the warp and minimize the Chaos threat before they made a major power play (example, HH) - huge project imo.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Warlock in Training said:


> ...and the Imperials as well Space Marines operate just fine without it as well.
> 
> IMO the Emp wasted valuable time on a minor project.


You're kidding, right?

The Imperium is in a desperate situation during the closing years of the millennium: The nidz are only just getting started and no doubt the Hive Fleets arriving will only be getting larger and larger, and worse still they are not just arriving in the Galactic south anymore, but from the Northern territories too.
Then you have the 13th Black Crusade, that although contained for now, do seem to have a beach head in Cadia: Chaos control most the planet, the only thing containing them is the Imperial Navy in space. And outbreaks of Cultist-led rebellions in other Cadian sectors are rife. 
Then you have the awakening of Necrons all over the galaxy, and the Orks doing their usual WAAGHS! all over the place. The Imperium is going to eventually reach a point very soon where they are stretched far too thin, with so many multiple threats to deal with on all fronts. 
The Imperium is not "operating fine" with warp travel: You have all these threats on all frontiers, and the threat of rebellion from within, and the Imperium is completely screwed... And it's only a matter of time before the golden throne fails and the Astromincan light goes out, plunging the entire Imperium into a new Age of Strife, only infinitely worse this time with all the Xenos and Chaos knocking at the door...

The Webway would've solved a lot of the problems: Near-instantaneous travel means you can better respond to these threats. Right now, it can take decades for a distress signal to even be received, then a few decades more for help to arrive, which is often far too late. Imagine having the ability to mobilise and send an Imperial Guard regiment and Space Marine Chapters to respond to a invasion or rebellion within days, to any part of the galaxy. The tactical advantage over warp travel is massive: days versus decades. Also, think of the economic value with trade routes no longer being prone to piracy. Huge.
But it doesn't even stop at military and economic advantage: No more warp travel and dependence = Less exposure to Chaos. That is always a good thing. 

Definitely not a "minor project." It would've taken the Humanity to a completely higher level of development, and the Emperor knew this.


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