# 40K Tzeentch



## Dave T Hobbit

I am feeling as if I have had my own Chaos Warband Quest to get here.

First the descent into the vasty deeps to raid the Clart Horde for my wife's old digital camera.

Secondly, a search for the Charged Batteries of Compatibility.

Then, starting a dawn, quested I across the house seeking a location with soft yet strong light.

Finally, as promised some photographs of my models:


Soullgrinder, which doubles as a Defiler.











CSM Daemon Prince











Thousand Sons Rhino











Sadly but unsurprisingly ,as I have not used a camera in anger for years, none of the other pictures came out at all well.

As my wife's photographs with her shiny new digital mobile actually look like things, I might suggest photographing my models is (i) artistic and (ii) something we could do together.


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## tu_shan82

Good work man, have some rep.


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## Dave T Hobbit

Dave T Hobbit said:


> ...As my wife's photographs with her shiny new digital mobile actually look like things, I might suggest photographing my models is (i) artistic and (ii) something we could do together....


In the unlikely event :grin: this cunning plan fails, I should probably have a back up plan. Anyone point me at a good article/site for troubleshooting digital photography, so I can minimise spending valuable painting time on more random experimentation.


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## bloodthrister

well, I'm not exactly a pro when it comes to photographing mini's I do have some tips for you:

Use a white sheet of paper and hold it like this: (quick example made on paint  )








this way you'll have a nice background for photographing, and it makes the mini's pop out a little better.

Next is the lighting:
Use a daylight lamp, with a sheet of paper hanging in front of it to dim it down a little. (don't put the paper straight on the lamp, because the lamp might get hot!!!) This gives a very good light to photograph with.

last but not least: use the miniature mode (a flower icon) on you camera. (dont know wether your camera has it, or wether you've used it, but this one really reveals a lot of details on a photo.)

when using those hints you'll probablly get a photo like this one (I used mij Nokia N95's camera for this one )








I know it still isn't perfect, but it sure looks good, and the background isn't very distracting  (and the shadow on the background makes him looks a little more evil IMO, but you can Photoshop that away if you want 

Now on to the mini's:

I really like the mini's you have! The only thing I don't really like is the soul grinder's head, it just looks too small IMO. 

I do have a question: which head did you use for the Daemon Prince??? And which wings? They look very nice


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## Sir Whittaker

Love the soulgrinder/defiler, how did paint the daemon flesh? It's awesome! Like the twisting and warping Tzeentch feel it has too.


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## Dave T Hobbit

Thank you all for your comments.

I might even summon the will to try photographing again.



bloodthrister said:


> ...Use a white sheet of paper... this way you'll have a nice background for photographing, and it makes the mini's pop out a little better....


I tried that first; as I live in the basement I could not find an indoor light source that gave any contrast without the flash, and everything washed out with the flash on:angry:, so the pictures are taken outside ni the garden, where my sheet of paper blew away!




bloodthrister said:


> ...Use a daylight lamp, with a sheet of paper hanging in front of it to dim it down a little. (don't put the paper straight on the lamp, because the lamp might get hot!!!) This gives a very good light to photograph with....


Good idea.




bloodthrister said:


> ...use the miniature mode (a flower icon) on you camera. (dont know wether your camera has it, or wether you've used it, but this one really reveals a lot of details on a photo.)....


It does; I found that after the first round of failures and thought it would solve all my problems; I have a horrible feeling the camera just has a really long lower focal bound.




bloodthrister said:


> ...I don't really like is the soul grinder's head, it just looks too small IMO....


That might be an issue with the photograph. It is actually the head from the kit; I remounted it in the centre of the body as an homage to the old style Horrors.




bloodthrister said:


> ...which head did you use for the Daemon Prince??? And which wings? They look very nice


They are both from a Wood Elf War Hawk.




Sir Whittaker said:


> Love the soulgrinder/defiler, how did paint the daemon flesh? It's awesome! Like the twisting and warping Tzeentch feel it has too.


The flesh is

Black undercoat/primer
Ultramarine Blue over all of it
Enchanted blue leaving UM Blue showing in recesses
2:1 Enchanted Blue/Ice Blue mix leaving some Enchanted Blue showing
1:1 Enchanted Blue/Ice Blue mix on the edges of areas I wanted to stand out
dots/thin lines of Ice Blue to accentuate
 wash of Asurmen Blue


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## Dave T Hobbit

Having just about hacked the really precise fixed focal length on the camera a few (hopefully) better pictures.

First, a view of my pet Space Puppy:











One of my other Spawn:











Depending on my mood either a Terminator Champion or Sorcerer Lord:




















More Terminators:





























The other Defiler:











And some mutant Chosen:

Two Lightning Claws











Power Weapon











Body of a Flamer


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## JB Mallus

If you can.... try and crop the pictures so that it focuses on the mini. If you don't have the software I would suggest either Irfanview or Gimp.
You are making progress on the photo front 

JB Mallus


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## Dave T Hobbit

JB Mallus said:


> ...If you can.... try and crop the pictures so that it focuses on the mini. If you don't have the software I would suggest either Irfanview or Gimp....


Good call. GIMP is really easy to use.

Amazed at how much better they look just with cropping.




JB Mallus said:


> ...You are making progress on the photo front ....


Thank you.

This reminds me why I gave up photography though; the judging distances by eye, focusing on the appearance of things instead of their value, half an inch making the difference between success and failure... hang on a second... :fool:


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## KhainiteAssassin

In my WIP, I have a bunch of pictures taken by a moderately cheap digital camera.

The way I do it is simple: 1. get good lightning (I use Florescent lights) 2. get a tripod to steadyness. 3. turn the flash off, and small object mode on, and 4. find a way to open the camera shutter. if your camera auto adjusts aslong as the shutter is open abit more to take in more light, it will make the models come out much crisper. It took me practice on how to get the models coming out perfectly in the pics though, since is the camera shakes while you open the shutter more, it will blur the pics.


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## JB Mallus

Now that I can see something   
I really like the marine with the one large red eye. oh, and the bird man, too.

JB Mallus


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## The Sullen One

These are some truly stunning models mate, I love the converted soulgrinder, and your birdhead terminator, but my favourite has got to be your Daemon Prince. Arguably its best aspect is the contrast between the dark blue armour, and the green/yellow of the wings.

Having built so much in the way of Nurgle and Slaneesh recently, I'm branching out to the other two Chaos gods, and currently focusing on Tzzentch, so any tips or ideas you've got would be welcome.


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## Dave T Hobbit

The biggest problems I found were:

Avoiding too much change; good individual models do not always gel as a squad, so make sure there is a theme to the army and a theme to the squad.
Avoiding comical mutations; spawn arms are a case in point, bits that looked really creepy on the sprue looked like children's cartoon bad guys when I put them on the model, so I always dry-fit my changes first.

To try and keep it consistent, I came up with a few starting rules for my army based on my view of Tzeentch as change and subtlety:

To emphasise Change everything apart from Thousand Sons has a conversion/part swap
As these are a regimented force that had mutated, the armour colour scheme would be consistent (dark blue, gold), with mutations/detailing having a few common colours (green, pink, bright purple)
Tzeentch is fluid not tearing, so minimal spiky bits and horns. Where possible, any horns would be ridged warm bone rather than smooth
Trophies are a fixed view of the past, so I would avoid skulls and racks where possible.
Bright colours and no weathering, to give a magical look.

Bits-wise, the Spawn and Possessed sprues are a great start, as is the Arcane Books pack. However, to add personality, going through every single model in every single army on the GW site, with the question "How would I change that to fit my army?" turns up some surprising ideas.

Also, Tzeentch does not have to make mechanical sense; consider how else you might achieve a goal: instead of a special weapon, a flaming mouth; instead of a mammalian physiology, an arachnid. Try to come up with a list of crazy alternatives and put it somewhere you can add (but never delete) and review at will, then make a smaller list of the ones you can think of how to build/paint and start with those.


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## NagashKhemmler

Quite nice, I can't help but feel that a little bit brighter highlights would really work a charm however


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## Dave T Hobbit

NagashKhemmler said:


> Quite nice....


Quite nice! Talk about damning with faint praise!:grin:



NagashKhemmler said:


> I can't help but feel that a little bit brighter highlights would really work a charm however


The highlights are brighter in person; these are some of my earlier attempts at photographs so it is not as clear.

Of course - apart form the Soul Grinder - they were also all painted some time ago, so are slightly less skilled than my current work.:wink:


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## Yllib Enaz

Pretty good, I like the guy with the beak in particular.


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## Dave T Hobbit

Yllib Enaz said:


> Pretty good, I like the guy with the beak in particular.


Thank you.


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## PapaSmurf124

Those are some awesome minis. I love the Soul Grinder and your Daemon Prince is awesome. You did a lot of excellent converting on these models. +rep


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## Dave T Hobbit

PapaSmurf124 said:


> You did a lot of excellent converting on these models. +rep


Thank you.

The possibility to indulge in conversion was one of the main reasons I left the False Emperor and joined Tzeentch.


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## DestroyerHive

Love the Defilers! But the Termie Lord looks too... Undivided...


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## Dave T Hobbit

DestroyerHive said:


> ...the Termie Lord looks too... Undivided...


Assuming you mean the one with the cloak, I was avoiding too much mutation for sorcerers, so the kopesh is the only proper conversion on him.


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## davidmumma66

Sir you have made the best daemon prince conversion my eyes have ever seen. While the painters down at gamesworkshop think they are great with their new plastic kit, the real genius is in models like your daemon prince that are unique and one of a kind, and i bet if you submitted a nice picture the gamesworkshop website you'd make on the Whats new today, they've shown some other cool conversions but this one is better than most


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## Dave T Hobbit

davidmumma66 said:


> Sir you have made the best daemon prince conversion my eyes have ever seen.While the painters down at gamesworkshop think they are great with their new plastic kit, the real genius is in models like your daemon prince that are unique and one of a kind....


Many, many thanks.

Comments like that makes up for the effort seem worthwhile.



davidmumma66 said:


> ...i bet if you submitted a nice picture the gamesworkshop website you'd make on the Whats new today, they've shown some other cool conversions but this one is better than most


Sending some of my work in had never occurred to me. I might have to borrow a better camera (and possibly a better cameraman:wink


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## davidmumma66

Dave T Hobbit said:


> Sending some of my work in had never occurred to me. I might have to borrow a better camera (and possibly a better cameraman:wink


Well that is true you should borrow a better camera so you could get better pictures, but you should definitely submit good pictures, once the dark eldar craze has died down, of the daemon prince, The mutated terminators especially the one with the bird like head, and The converted defiler/


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## fish

The conversions are what I think I enjoy most about Chaos.. I rather enjoy your lord of change-esque Daemon Prince conversion and do think its quite apropos for Tzeentch.

Might I recommend a kroot head or two for your normal marines?


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## Dave T Hobbit

fish said:


> I rather enjoy your lord of change-esque Daemon Prince conversion and do think its quite apropos for Tzeentch.


Thank you.



fish said:


> Might I recommend a kroot head or two for your normal marines?


I do not find Kroot heads beaked enough to make overcoming the problem of fitting the crest around the backpack worthwhile.

However, I do have an unpainted Terminator with a Kroot-hound head that got packed away when I decided to focus on my Warriors of Chaos, so that will come out at some point.


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## Midge913

Some good looking stuff here Dave. I will echo the comments about the DP as it is really fantastic looking! Nice conversion and sweet paint job!


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## Dave T Hobbit

Thank you Midge


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## Dakingofchaos

Dave, i cant believe i've only just come across your 40k army, it looks amazing! i too particularly like the daemon prince, the old metal model looked god awful but i think you've made it just that bit different enough to look awesome but not too different if you get what i mean? :laugh: 

The freehand on the rhino is also pretty damn good, i really like that emblem thingy on the top hatch, and its the retro rhino! even better! 

The reaper autocannon on your defiler strikes me as a little odd though, i think it might have looked better in a nurgle themed army, but im not sure i like the muscle on a tzeentch paint scheme, just my opinion though, i dont mean to offend 

Either way a brilliant looking army, well rep worthy!


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## Dave T Hobbit

Dakingofchaos said:


> Dave, i cant believe i've only just come across your 40k army, it looks amazing! i too particularly like the daemon prince, the old metal model looked god awful but i think you've made it just that bit different enough to look awesome but not too different if you get what i mean? :laugh:


Thank you.



Dakingofchaos said:


> The freehand on the rhino is also pretty damn good, i really like that emblem thingy on the top hatch, and its the retro rhino! even better!


I bought the three Rhinos in a Box deal when it came out, which I think makes me old.



Dakingofchaos said:


> The reaper autocannon on your defiler strikes me as a little odd though, i think it might have looked better in a nurgle themed army, but im not sure i like the muscle on a tzeentch paint scheme, just my opinion though, i dont mean to offend


I am not offended at all; Chaos is very much a matter of opinion.

I based it on the original Horror Champion (the big head with three muscled arms and a big tail) so the possession matched my horrors squad.


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## JHarrison

Your conversions are inspiring! I especially like how you created the Terminator and Daemon Prince. Very well done.

Glad to see there is someone else that appreciates Tzeentch here.


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## Dave T Hobbit

JHarrison said:


> Your conversions are inspiring! I especially like how you created the Terminator and Daemon Prince. Very well done.
> 
> Glad to see there is someone else that appreciates Tzeentch here.


Thank you.


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## facelessone

nice work , only the 8 leged one is off i think ...


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## Dave T Hobbit

facelessone said:


> nice work , only the 8 leged one is off i think ...


Thank you.

Do you mean my nine legged Defiler? What do you find off about it?


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## TheOnlySaneObliterator

facelessone said:


> nice work , only the 8 legged one is off I think ...





Dave T Hobbit said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Do you mean my nine legged Defiler? What do you find off about it?


First off, i find the above convesation hilarious. I mean, what ISN'T off about a Chaos Defiler of Tzeentch?:laugh:

Second, to Faceless, 9 is the "sacred" number of Tzeentch, so actually it's pretty accurate as far as a Tzeentian Defiler would look.

Thirdly , to Mr. Hobbit, the only problem I have with it is this: Thousand Sons using Heavy Support? Seems kinda counter to their usual cloak, dagger and forbidden sorcery bend to me.

Finally, again to Mr. Hobbit, it really is great work, my personal fave was the Daemon prince. Also, you really are getting better at the pics, keep up the good work!


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## Dave T Hobbit

TheOnlySaneObliterator said:


> ...Thousand Sons using Heavy Support? Seems kinda counter to their usual cloak, dagger and forbidden sorcery bend to me.


You get points for being the first person to accuse me of not being restrictive enough in my army. 

It is not a pure Thousand Sons force; it is a Tzeentch army so there are departures from sorcery and automata.



TheOnlySaneObliterator said:


> ...it really is great work, my personal fave was the Daemon prince. Also, you really are getting better at the pics, keep up the good work!


Thank you.


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## Dave T Hobbit

I entered a Tournament last month using my Thousand Sons. In honour of the new Codex I added some new units to the army from the rather spiffing Dark Vengeance box set.

*Helbrute*

I am not fond of the face peering through teeth motif, so I converted the sarcophagus to look more like a maw. I also removed the long horns from the smaller mouth on the side.



















*Close Combat Cultists*

As cultists die in droves I decided to use a quick colour-wash-colour technique. To add variation I reversed the colour of trousers and jackets on the duplicate miniatures.










I was away when the codex was released and quite busy afterward so mostly focussed on getting them painted. however, I did manage to add a little variety by weapon swapping the lug-nuts and barbedwire.


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## Midge913

I really like the purple skin with the blue armor on the Brute. Nicely done there mate!


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## Dave T Hobbit

Midge913 said:


> I really like the purple skin with the blue armor on the Brute. Nicely done there mate!


Thank you.


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## MetalHandkerchief

Your helbrute is a cool colour combo, and your army looks to be very unified in theme which is good. Personally, I like my Tzeentch blue base colour much lighter and the borders more gold than brass, but all in all you have a good thing going there.


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## Dave T Hobbit

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Your helbrute is a cool colour combo, and your army looks to be very unified in theme which is good.


Thank you.



MetalHandkerchief said:


> Personally, I like... the borders more gold than brass....


It is Shining Gold with a Burnished Gold highlight.


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## MetalHandkerchief

Dave T Hobbit said:


> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> It is Shining Gold with a Burnished Gold highlight.


Ah ok, the photos must be dark then, good choice :grin:


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## The Wraithlord

Looking good Dave, digging the cultist especially.


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## Dave T Hobbit

Cheers Wraithlord.


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## SonofVulkan

Love the purple skin on the Helbrute. Nice to see you removed them strange horn things growing out of the side, they always strike me as odd. Excellent job with the cultists too.


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## Dave T Hobbit

Thank you.



SonofVulkan said:


> Nice to see you removed them strange horn things growing out of the side, they always strike me as odd.


I am generally not fond of the Chaos=spikes approach much of the range takes; the gaping mouth completely filled with horns is possibly the silliest example though so it had to go.


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## Tymesious

I don't know if anyone pointed you in this direction for photos, but I found this thread for photo editing a few days ago and it was very helpful:

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=121666


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## Dave T Hobbit

Tymesious said:


> I don't know if anyone pointed you in this direction for photos, but I found this thread for photo editing a few days ago and it was very helpful:
> 
> http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=121666


Thank you for the suggestion. The photographs at the start of the thread were taken with a very old camera, and were the first miniature photos I took. I did think of replacing them but keep having other things to do.

As the shots of the cultists and Helbrute hopefully I have improved significantly since then.


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## Deneris

Any new additions lately, Dave?


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## Dave T Hobbit

Deneris said:


> Any new additions lately, Dave?


Not since the Helbrute.

I do intend to expand my TS in the future.


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## Ddraig Cymry

I always love when I see Chaos armies that are more than just different paint schemes, and are actually modified to represent whatever god they worship! Excellent conversion work so far, and actually the Helbrute without that little head doesn't look all that bad, it's growing on me. Great work on the Cultists too.


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## Dave T Hobbit

Thank you.


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## Mossy Toes

Good looking stuff so far. The cultists in particular look nice: economical and quickly-done, perhaps, but certainly not having suffered for it. The Helbrute on the other hand... I think the purple is a bit too garish and bright. Might just be me, mind you.

Excellent earlier stuff, though, especially the Prince. That's the fellow who rampaged through Tim/Steve's IG, is he not?


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## Dave T Hobbit

Mossy Toes said:


> The cultists in particular look nice: economical and quickly-done, perhaps, but certainly not having suffered for it.


Thank you.

Seeing how fast they leave the table each time once my opponent notices them the quick scheme seems a good compromise.



Mossy Toes said:


> The Helbrute on the other hand... I think the purple is a bit too garish and bright. Might just be me, mind you.


Many of my infantry have the same purple on as a spot colour, so it looks less odd in context.



Mossy Toes said:


> Excellent earlier stuff, though, especially the Prince. That's the fellow who rampaged through Tim/Steve's IG, is he not?


Indeed.

Based on our respective luck I think Tzeentch decided I was owed a boon for years of putting conversion and fluff ahead of competitiveness.


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