# Most incompetent person in the 41st Millenium?



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

The title pretty much says it. Who is your choice? 

Mine is Captain Indrick Boreal. That dude is just sad. Five companies of Space Marines and he failed, FAILED, to conquer the Kaurava system?!


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

i'd say the emperor, he didnt see the Horus Heresy coming to hit him in the face


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

I say Abbadon he always loses and fails to get organized


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## Flash (May 11, 2011)

Castellan Garran Crowe.

'I am Titans Herald! Me and all members of my squad can re roll failed rolls to hit! Yeah yeah all right! Oh.....I can't join a squad.'


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Anybody saying Abaddon needs to be shot by the way, his Black Crusades have accomplished what they intended, and a status quo is likely being held by the Chaos Gods.

Anyways, that one captain from Soulstorm, for the Imperial Guard. He lost what, a hundred Baneblaes? How the hell do you do that?!?


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

those bane blades were just a tax write off he had to get rid of em somehow


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Abaddon the chief lord of fail, though you could also include everyone from the DoW games.

Then again, pretty much every character of extreme importance to any race has failed spectacularly at something or other...


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Tim/Steve said:


> Abaddon the chief lord of fail, though you could also include everyone from the DoW games.


With the exception of Vance Motherfucking Stubbs and Stern.


Gorgutz 'Ead 'Unter takes my vote.

He had three WAAAGHS! under his command and failed miserably every single time. He makes Abaddon look competent.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

ThatOtherGuy said:


> Gorgutz 'Ead 'Unter takes my vote.
> 
> He had three WAAAGHS! under his command and failed miserably every single time. He makes Abaddon look competent.


But he was motherfucking awesome while doing it!


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Masked Jackal said:


> Anyways, that one _*captain*_ from Soulstorm, for the Imperial Guard. He lost what, a hundred Baneblaes? How the hell do you do that?!?


_General_ Vance Motherfucking Stubbs? 

He so badass that he required a handicap of loosing a hundred Baneblades just to give his enemies a﻿ false sense of hope.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Doelago said:


> _General_ Vance Motherfucking Stubbs?
> 
> He so badass that he required a handicap of loosing a hundred Baneblades just to give his enemies a﻿ false sense of hope.


Alright, I guess we can compromise for the Space Marine commander in that mission.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

khrone forever said:


> i'd say the emperor, he didnt see the Horus Heresy coming to hit him in the face


Most incompetent, are you serious?

The Emperor didn't do anything amazing at all right?


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

If we're having a go at the DOW games, Eliphas the Apostle of Fail. Twice in a row he hasn't just spectacularly failed, but also died in the process. Seriously, why do they keep resurrecting that chump?


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Abbadon, ol' Corpse Throne and Horus are competing toe-to-toe for most Incompetent. Abbadon because he got pegged to death by a Crisis Suit in close combat, Corpse Man because he allowed the heresy to even happen and Horus because he fell for saturday morning cartoon syndrome (aka procrastinated getting the job done by relishing his yet-to-be victory and so suffered for it) .


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## ChaosDefilerofUlthuan (Jan 25, 2011)

In fluff terms there are a myriad of people but in game terms I'd go for Aun'va as he is supposed to be the Ultimate Tau symbol of power but it's kinda sad as he dies really easily so Tau people go 'look at him and quiver!!! Then I reply *boom* 

Fluff wise I'd say why the fucking he'll are you saying abbadons a fail. Once in a thousand years a great champion is supposed to be able to launch a dark crusade but he managed 11 or 12 I mean how could he be a motherfucker!!! It has to be , foursome unknown reason, Ghazkull as he failed to kill Yarrick when he's supposed to be able to head but a dread off it's feet or a tank onto one side!!!


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Herman motherfucking von Strab. 

/thread


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## Butcher001 (Jun 13, 2011)

ChaosDefilerofUlthuan said:


> Ghazkull as he failed to kill Yarrick when he's supposed to be able to head but a dread off it's feet or a tank onto one side!!!


He freed him because is the only umie who knows how to make a stand.

For me Abaddon... he has grouped 13 times the chaos forces around him... and failed.

Telling he's awesome for doing that is like me... 5 times have made to take a 45/100 in my power electronics tests... and I feel a little ret***


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

For all those saying 'lolAbbadon'

_
"This time…” the Warmaster closed his unnatural eyes, and the silver talons trembled, “…this time, the fortress worlds around the Cadian Gate will burn until their surface is nothing but an ashen memory. This time, Cadia itself will die.”

Talos watched the Warmaster, saying nothing, until his self-absorbed ecstasy faded and he opened his eyes once more. The Night Lord broke the silence that stretched between them by walking to the corpse of an inmate and kneeling by the body. The man had bled a great deal across the remains of the table he lay upon, but had died from the intense blunt trauma to the side of his head. Talos dipped his first two fingers in the congealing puddle of the mortal’s blood, raising them to his speaker grille in order to inhale the coppery scent.

He hungered to taste it, to let the life matter flow through his gene-enhanced form and absorb it into his veins, so he might sense a ghostly echo of the man’s dreams, his fears, his desires and terrors.

The wonders of Astartes physiology—to taste the life of those whose blood you have shed. Truly, a hunter’s gift.

"You seem unimpressed by my assurance,” the Warmaster said.

“With respect, sir, all of your previous crusades have failed.”

“Is that so? Are you one of my inner circle, to judge whether my plans came to pass and my objectives were met?"_

from Soul Hunter.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> For all those saying 'lolAbbadon'
> 
> _
> "This time…” the Warmaster closed his unnatural eyes, and the silver talons trembled, “…this time, the fortress worlds around the Cadian Gate will burn until their surface is nothing but an ashen memory. This time, Cadia itself will die.”
> ...


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

The adept who didn't keep the Haynes Instruction Manual for the Golden Throne on hand to fix its current problems.


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## Eetion (Mar 19, 2008)

Governor von strabb of armmageddon. 

1st invasion by orks. Made error after error sent his armies to be slaughtered piecemeal. Assumed that orks won't be able to cross jungle almost lost his planet if it wasn't for yarrick. 

2nd invasion. He actually goes and joins the orks. Just how did he think that one was going to turn out?


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

abbadon must be the greatest failure of all;
if he were to unite the chaos warbands cadia would be burning, even after 10 K years with support from the gods he is not able to be a beacon for the forces of chaos, I agree with talos, as for the empirials must be supreme UM calgar after the chapter's due I think he must be the thickest cunt in the universe, darn he thinks he is great,
Mephiston for emperor


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

You people do realize that most of the might of Chaos is spent dicking around in the Chaos Gods games instead of doing anything to bring down the Imperium right?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Horus...... that is all.


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## Eetion (Mar 19, 2008)

Why say horus? 
I believe the question is who in the 41st Millenium. 

Surely primarchs are off limits. Unless anyone feels like nominatingdaemon primarchs


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Yeah you don't just hatch a plan in your mind and decide to take down the Emperor, the strongest human/mortal ever to have lived. It just doesn't happen and even the Chaos powers couldn't approach him directly, so I wouldn't really say Horus failed due to being _incompetent_.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Eldrad Ulthran? Maybe not the most but he truly screwed himself over when he tried to take down a Talisman of Vaul.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

But how did that make him incompetent? A chaos power directly intervened, the very act a momentousness event itself, and tricked him. Even so he managed to have a backup plan, possibly being able to ressurect himself one day.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Eetion said:


> Why say horus?
> I believe the question is who in the 41st Millenium.
> 
> Surely primarchs are off limits. Unless anyone feels like nominatingdaemon primarchs


A 10k year old legacy of failure? Sounds like a perfectly valid reason to me. 

Also, someone said the emperor, so the precedent was set.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Horus was never destined to slay his father and take over the Imperium. The Chaos powers planned to hinder the Emperor and insure the slow stagnation of the Imperium with him watching helplessly on his throne.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Horus was never destined to slay his father and take over the Imperium. The Chaos powers planned to hinder the Emperor and insure the slow stagnation of the Imperium with him watching helplessly on his throne.


Thank you for that, though it doesn't matter. Horus was a fucking failure to his own goals. I never said the chaos gods, I said Horus.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Again, how is the puppet a failure when he did what he was destined to do? His own goals were not his, not for a long time.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Again, how is the puppet a failure when he did what he was destined to do? His own goals were not his, not for a long time.


He wanted to bring down the emperor. He wanted to rule it and to destroy the emperor. He wanted an empire of chaos. He failed to do what he wanted to do, and he failed his men. That is it. Also, I am not sure if that is what the chaos gods wanted. They might have ended up with something equally as good, if not better, but from what is said in the DA codex, it makes me think that their goals were not totally fulfilled. I don't have it on me, but I believe it is something along the lines that Luther was their second failure and that they opened the rift above caliban out of rage.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Malus Darkblade said:


> But how did that make him incompetent? A chaos power directly intervened, the very act a momentousness event itself, and tricked him. Even so he managed to have a backup plan, possibly being able to ressurect himself one day.


He should never of tried in the first place.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> He wanted to bring down the emperor. He wanted to rule it and to destroy the emperor. He wanted an empire of chaos. He failed to do what he wanted to do. That is it. Also, that is what the chaos gods wanted. They ended up with something equally as good, if not better


You make it seem like pretty boy Horus and the always seductive chaos powers bumped into each other at a park, had a few drinks at a nearby bar and realized they had a lot in common.

What about the whole corruption thing Horus went through? Horus had issues with his father but he never would have betrayed him on his own if not for the whispers of Chaos.



gen.ahab said:


> I don't have it on me, but I believe it is something along the lines that Luther was their second failure and that they opened the rift above caliban out of rage.


Luther is a different story all together.



Words_of_Truth said:


> He should never of tried in the first place.


He never should have tried to use a weapon to his advantage against an enemy? K.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> What about the whole corruption thing Horus went through? Horus had issues with his father but he never would have betrayed him on his own if not for the whispers of Chaos.


Chaos manipulates what is already present, yes, but there was already hate growing within him, they just brought it out and magnified it. Horus failed his men and failed his goal. He was a failure.



Malus Darkblade said:


> Luther is a different story all together.


From what it says, he was a the second plan to fail. If that is right, it would seem to indicate that Horus failed.


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## Eetion (Mar 19, 2008)

gen.ahab said:


> A 10k year old legacy of failure? Sounds like a perfectly valid reason to me.
> 
> Also, someone said the emperor, so the precedent was set.


Yet the emperor is alive and horus isnt. Long since dead. 

Besides i wouldn't have said horus was incompetent. 1 moment of massive arrogance. But you don't get as far as he did with incompetence.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Eetion said:


> Yet the emperor is alive and horus isnt. Long since dead.
> 
> Besides i wouldn't have said horus was incompetent. 1 moment of massive arrogance. But you don't get as far as he did with incompetence.


Yet they sighted his fault with the primarchs. You don't get as far as most of the characters sighted by being incompetent, so that really isn't all that important. I still say it was Horus. Though, if I wanted to be a massive tight ass about it, I suppose I would go with.......... The high lords? Eh, not a single character, but take your pick.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I don't think you can call anyone who is intensely corrupted like Horus or Luther incompetent, they weren't acting of their own accord.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I don't think you can call anyone who is intensely corrupted like Horus or Luther incompetent, they weren't acting of their own accord.


I can, and I have. Now let us move along.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

How the HELL is everyone thinking Abaddon failed *13 Black Crusades*. Does anyone really know what they're talking about before the lack of knowledge spew from their mouths? 

Heres a hint for futur refrence, ABBY HASNT LED ALL 13 BCs!!!

Shocker I know. 

My vote is Still Abby..... He wanted to take Cadia this time but still Stalemated the crappy human Cadia people. WTF!?


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## Lastik (Jun 15, 2011)

Y'know, people wouldn't nominate Abby so often if he hadn't spurted the famous "Horus was a loser" line at the end of the heresy.

Rant all you want Abby, but after 10k years, which was far more than horus had, I still don't see any Abbadon's Heresy on the imperial calendar


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Its been 10'000 years... but not from Aby's perspective. To the CSM its only been about 1000, they're still full of fail though.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Arex, 
Anyone who read the book dead men walking will know why.


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## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

Roboute Guilliman. A man in perfect position to pull the Imperium back together after the Horus Heresy, and who set about doing so... And failed utterly at it.

Instead of all the things he could have done, such as bringing the remaining Legions back up to strength - hell, beyond that - and getting the Imperium back in the technology game (remember, under the Emperor the Imperium had been advancing up the tech tree again!), setting up an Imperial administration that avoids embarrassing incidents like MISPLACING PLANETS, or avoiding the deification of the Emperor said Emperor had distinctly spoken against... His actions demonstrated fear, overreaction, indecisiveness and a complete inability to take the long view.

The current declining state of the Imperium can be largely laid at his feet.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

I'm not very familiar with this, but is Roboute really the chief force behind that? If so...wow, just wow.


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## Dogbeard (Apr 15, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> How the HELL is everyone thinking Abaddon failed *13 Black Crusades*. Does anyone really know what they're talking about before the lack of knowledge spew from their mouths?
> 
> Heres a hint for futur refrence, ABBY HASNT LED ALL 13 BCs!!!


Actually, there have been more than thirteen Black Crusades, but Abaddon has led thirteen of them. Some Black Crusades not counted among Abaddon's thirteen are the Black Crusades of the daemon princes Tallomin and Doombreed; Angron's Dominion of Fire and the First War for Armageddon could probably also be considered Black Crusade.

Though he lived in M36, I'll nominate Admiral Sehalla, the naval commander for the heretic Cardinal Bucharis, for most incompetent. With almost the whole of Battlefleet Pacificus under his command (literally hundreds of battleships and cruisers and thousands of frigates and destroyers all designed for ship-to-ship combat), he got his ass handed to him by the Space Wolves fleet (a few battle barges and maybe a dozen strike cruisers at most, designed primarily for planetary assault). Worst admiral ever.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

Dogbeard said:


> Actually, there have been more than thirteen Black Crusades, but Abaddon has led thirteen of them. Some Black Crusades not counted among Abaddon's thirteen are the Black Crusades of the daemon princes Tallomin and Doombreed; Angron's Dominion of Fire and the First War for Armageddon could probably also be considered Black Crusade.
> 
> Though he lived in M36, I'll nominate Admiral Sehalla, the naval commander for the heretic Cardinal Bucharis, for most incompetent. With almost the whole of Battlefleet Pacificus under his command (literally hundreds of battleships and cruisers and thousands of frigates and destroyers all designed for ship-to-ship combat), he got his ass handed to him by the Space Wolves fleet (a few battle barges and maybe a dozen strike cruisers at most, designed primarily for planetary assault). Worst admiral ever.


that is one special man:shok::shok:


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## Eetion (Mar 19, 2008)

gen.ahab said:


> Yet they sighted his fault with the primarchs. You don't get as far as most of the characters sighted by being incompetent, so that really isn't all that important. I still say it was Horus. Though, if I wanted to be a massive tight ass about it, I suppose I would go with.......... The high lords? Eh, not a single character, but take your pick.


Sorry. Didnt mean to come across that way. I suppose im a little perplexed as to why Horus.

I mean lowering the shields on his Barge... granted, possibly incompetance, but the reasons are largely unknown. Its also suggested to end the war quickly in light of the approaching loyalists of the SW and DA.

So possibly incompetance, Unknown reason, Or failed tactical gamble.

But I cant think of anything else that would show incompetance. Hes not exactly got loads of faults going on. Just in the end he ultimately failed, but that doesnt mean he was incompetant.




> I don't think you can call anyone who is intensely corrupted like Horus or Luther incompetent, they weren't acting of their own accord.


Id say you could. Corruption or not corruption doesnt really impact on if someone is incompetant or not. You can be nuts and incompetant just like you can be a genius and incompetant.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> Arex,
> Anyone who read the book dead men walking will know why.


Read the book, but still no-idea what you are on about... can't remember anything more then run of the mill incompetence in this one.


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## Electric-Ashes (Mar 24, 2011)

What exactly have Kharn, Lucius and Typhus done recently? Everyone bad mouths Abaddon but to his credit he seems to be the only one who is actually doing something.

To my knowlegde the only other person that is doing anything of note is Ahriman and his quest for the Black Library. And while Abaddon lost to the combined forces of the Imperium, Ahriman is being thwarted by clowns.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Dogbeard said:


> Actually, there have been more than thirteen Black Crusades, but Abaddon has led thirteen of them. Some Black Crusades not counted among Abaddon's thirteen are the Black Crusades of the daemon princes Tallomin and Doombreed; Angron's Dominion of Fire and the First War for Armageddon could probably also be considered Black Crusade.
> 
> Though he lived in M36, I'll nominate Admiral Sehalla, the naval commander for the heretic Cardinal Bucharis, for most incompetent. With almost the whole of Battlefleet Pacificus under his command (literally hundreds of battleships and cruisers and thousands of frigates and destroyers all designed for ship-to-ship combat), he got his ass handed to him by the Space Wolves fleet (a few battle barges and maybe a dozen strike cruisers at most, designed primarily for planetary assault). Worst admiral ever.


Actaully not from what I read in... in.... EoT Codex maybe..... fuck.... I cant source but I remember that out of the Famouse 13 BCs Abby led 7 or 8 of them. One of them Number 7 I belive was led by Doombreed. I look for the sources but nowhere in my CSM dexes said Abby led all of them. It does state their have been 13 BCs, documented BCs, and the WORST are led by Abaddon. That is a fact from the C:CSM 3.5 and 4th edition.


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## Eetion (Mar 19, 2008)

Electric-Ashes said:


> What exactly have Kharn, Lucius and Typhus done recently? Everyone bad mouths Abaddon but to his credit he seems to be the only one who is actually doing something.
> 
> To my knowlegde the only other person that is doing anything of note is Ahriman and his quest for the Black Library. And while Abaddon lost to the combined forces of the Imperium, Ahriman is being thwarted by clowns.


Fair point. But Ahriman doesnt have even a fraction of the resources available to Abby... and at least hes making in roads into it. Sure a set back 2 but hes working on it.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Edition said:


> Fair point. But Ahriman doesn't have even a fraction of the resources available to Abby... and at least hes making in roads into it. Sure a set back 2 but hes working on it.


Lets see.... Ahriman is the closest to get into the BL than any other Chaos person/thing. He also FUCKED half a SM chapter and Gdetachmentnt in the new GDexex. Sad part hwasn'tnt even there!!!

Typhus is INFAMOUS for his Zombie Plague and Red Plague that claims whsectorsores. Hes afamousouse for leading the largest group of PMs and Plague Fleet.

Kharn was the first to breach the Imperial Palace, led assaults on Itsvaan, aSOLELY SOLEY responsible foWeshe WEs breakSkylarkstharax (however it is spelled) which is a big deal.

Lucius....... he.... fights naked.... and use to be a rising star in the EC..... he cant die....... ........... so yeah.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Tim/Steve said:


> Read the book, but still no-idea what you are on about... can't remember anything more then run of the mill incompetence in this one.


Barely got away from a mutant attack in the undercity. Knew perfectly well that something was amiss. Still left her suit to search for a guy that she was just using.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> Lets see.... Ahriman is the closest to get into the BL than any other Chaos person/thing. He also FUCKED half a SM chapter and Gdetachmentnt in the new GDexex. Sad part hwasn'tnt even there!!!
> 
> Typhus is INFAMOUS for his Zombie Plague and Red Plague that claims whsectorsores. Hes afamousouse for leading the largest group of PMs and Plague Fleet.
> 
> ...


Sorry what?! I'm not a grammar nazi or anything but I really struggled to understand that :S


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Eetion said:


> Sorry. Didnt mean to come across that way. I suppose im a little perplexed as to why Horus.


No, you were fine, I wanted to be a tight ass and say the high lords. You're good. Lol


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Warlock in Training said:


> Lets see.... Ahriman is the closest to get into the BL than any other Chaos person/thing. He also FUCKED half a SM chapter and *Gdetachmentnt in the new GDexex*. Sad part hwasn'tnt even there!!!
> 
> Typhus is INFAMOUS for his Zombie Plague and Red Plague that claims whsectorsores. Hes *afamousouse* for leading the largest group of PMs and Plague Fleet.
> 
> ...


Think you where rushed


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Eidolon.

I mean, the guy sent 50 terminators to the surface of a Tyranid planet and most of them didnt even survive the drop, those few who did were then slaughtered on the surface.

Then he sent another group.

And another.

He probably would've exhausted the entirety of the Blood Angel's 140th if the 63rd hadn't come along.


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## Dogbeard (Apr 15, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> Actaully not from what I read in... in.... EoT Codex maybe..... fuck.... I cant source but I remember that out of the Famouse 13 BCs Abby led 7 or 8 of them. One of them Number 7 I belive was led by Doombreed. I look for the sources but nowhere in my CSM dexes said Abby led all of them. It does state their have been 13 BCs, documented BCs, and the WORST are led by Abaddon. That is a fact from the C:CSM 3.5 and 4th edition.


From the entry on Abaddon in Chaos Space Marines Codex 4th Edition, Pg. 46:

"During his first Black Crusade, Abaddon made many pacts with the infernal powers...Abaddon has led twelve more Black Crusades against the Imperium since his first horrific onslaught."

From the section on The Black Crusades of Abaddon the Despoiler in the Eye of Terror Codex, Pg. 9:

"Abaddon vanished into the Eye of Terror and entered the realms of dark legend. Decades passed before Abaddon was to return, surging from the Eye at the head of a massive army...Since that day, there have been eleven separate Black Crusades, ranging from small raids to sector-speanning conflicts that have cost the lives of millions of Imperial soldiers." [The Black Crusade the codex sets up is the Thirteenth Black Crusade.]

The _Liber Chaotica: Khorne_ also gives summary descriptions of many Black Crusades. Abaddon's Seventh Black Crusade was called "The Ghost War." Instead of attacking Cadia, Abaddon's fleet slipped through the Cadian Gate to raid far-flung places through the Imperium. Doombreed's Black Crusade occurred sometime after Abbadon's Fourth Black Crusade; it was directed at Space Marines in particular and resulted in the destruction of the Warhawks and Venerators chapters.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Not really a person, but more a thing. Old One Eye. He's the uber-Carnifex, one of Hive Fleet Behemoths super-weapons, and he lost a fist fight to a bunch of scouts.

Lord General Lugo comes a close second.

Midnight


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Cyleune said:


> I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Eidolon.
> 
> I mean, the guy sent 50 terminators to the surface of a Tyranid planet and most of them didnt even survive the drop, those few who did were then slaughtered on the surface.
> 
> ...


Where does it ever say they were terminators he sent down? Eidolon is a tit, no doubt, but they do say that he does have a very impressive martial record so he can't be all that incompetent.

I still stand by Herman von Strab. Seriously the guys the most incompetent character ever.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> I still stand by Herman von Strab. Seriously the guys the most incompetent character ever.


That dude is just sad. Almost as sad as Boreal.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> Sorry what?! I'm not a grammar nazi or anything but I really struggled to understand that :S





Words_of_Truth said:


> Think you where rushed



I been drinking. Alot.



Dogbeard said:


> From the entry on Abaddon in Chaos Space Marines Codex 4th Edition, Pg. 46:
> 
> "During his first Black Crusade, Abaddon made many pacts with the infernal powers...Abaddon has led twelve more Black Crusades against the Imperium since his first horrific onslaught."
> 
> ...


FUKING BROTHER!!!! I checked my Books again and the _wording_ does say Abby led all the stupid BCs. :suicide: Have some Rep. And choke on it. :laugh:


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Moonschwine said:


> The adept who didn't keep the Haynes Instruction Manual for the Golden Throne on hand to fix its current problems.


I think we have a jackpot here!



Malus Darkblade said:


> “Is that so? Are you one of my inner circle, to judge whether my plans came to pass and my objectives were met?"[/I]
> 
> from Soul Hunter.


Of course, the line that follows is:

"You do harm to the Imperium, but never truly advance our cause."

Were Talos a more brusque individual, his reponse might have read:

"Oh, I see. Your plans and objectives entailed, more or less, remaining trapped in the Eye of Terror, and only being able to invade the Imperium once every millennium or so--said invasions generally ending with our side re-entering the Eye under durress."

:grin:

Cheers,
P.


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## Dogbeard (Apr 15, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> FUKING BROTHER!!!! I checked my Books again and the _wording_ does say Abby led all the stupid BCs. :suicide: Have some Rep. And choke on it. :laugh:


Thanks. I'll chew real good and try not to let my head get too swollen. Cheers. :grin:


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## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

The Lion, basically didn't do shit the entire Heresy except run around in circles and give weapons to the wrong people. Then blew up his planet and half his legion. 

Brings up the question of how serious he took the Heresy with half his legion still on Caliban.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> The Lion, basically didn't do shit the entire Heresy except run around in circles and give weapons to the wrong people. Then blew up his planet and half his legion.


Come on. By that token, Dorn is far more incompetent, since he basically didn't do shit except send four times as many wrong people to make sure Manus, Vulkan, and Corax got hosed at Isstvan V. :biggrin:



> Brings up the question of how serious he took the Heresy with half his legion still on Caliban.


That's not how it went down, though.

It's not as if he was, like, "Hmmm, I better leave half my Legion to Caliban." At the beginning of the Heresy, Luther only had the newest Chapters that his training cadres had just certified. By the end of "Fallen Angels" (the "closing credits" come right before Isstvan V), he has fallen to Chaos and orders that these brand new Chapters not be sent to the Lion. 

The same novel shows that Luther had refined the training doctrines so that, in just the few years between the beginning of the Heresy and the events of "Savage Weapons," he would have recruited and trained thousands more Astartes--who would have only been loyal to him. That number would only have grown exponentially by the time the Heresy was over and the Lion got back to Caliban.

After Isstvan V happens, and as the Heresy is shown to be a much more serious threat, the Lion is sent to take out Konrad Curze. During that time, the Warp hampers his ability to travel and communicate. So it's not like the Lion was sitting there wondering "Why isn't Luther sending me warriors?" either.

Cheers,
P.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

well the Lion is the only loyalist primarch left of which we know he is alive and can be rewoken and we know where he is, so in that sense he would say he is not the lamest


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## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> Come on. By that token, Dorn is far more incompetent, since he basically didn't do shit except send four times as many wrong people to make sure Manus, Vulkan, and Corax got hosed at Isstvan V. :biggrin:


Not really. Dorn is arguably responsible for Horus' forces not destroying Terra. Could anyone else really have held the forces at Terra better? 

And lets face it, Manus, Vulkan and Corax were not wasted as you suggest. The first wave overwhelmed and almost destroyed the original traitor forces on Istvaan. 

Even in Dorn's incompetence, he did so much with so little. Let's see, you have two of the smallest legions against all the traitor forces (Corax's and Vulkan's) and the Veteran Companies of the Iron Hands (which isn't even a legion really present). And even after the second wave betrayed them, they were still trading bodies for bodies. 




Phoebus said:


> That's not how it went down, though.
> 
> It's not as if he was, like, "Hmmm, I better leave half my Legion to Caliban." At the beginning of the Heresy, Luther only had the newest Chapters that his training cadres had just certified. By the end of "Fallen Angels" (the "closing credits" come right before Isstvan V), he has fallen to Chaos and orders that these brand new Chapters not be sent to the Lion.
> 
> ...


It pretty much just pushes his incompetence before he left Caliban. The fact is he left an angry man on Caliban with the power to recruit astartes during such a time in history. Defend him all you want, but to think putting Luther on Caliban to go crazy and not expect anything but something heretical to happen when you take away all his glory, all this while having the power to recruit and make your army, is anything but stupid... I just don't know what is.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> Not really. Dorn is arguably responsible for Horus' forces not destroying Terra. Could anyone else really have held the forces at Terra better?


What? Get out of town, man. :biggrin:

Read the official short story GW put out about the Siege of Terra. Horus' victory was imminent, when they received word that the Lion and Russ were on their way.

That's neither here nor there, though, since, heavy doses of sarcasm aside, I wasn't really saying that Dorn was incompetent. Far from it. What I AM saying is that if you imply the Lion was somehow incompetent, you might as well say Dorn was. Why did I use that specific example? Because both of their "failures" (note the quotes, more sarcasm) were due to ignorance of events they couldn't possibly have known about.

I mean, how was Dorn supposed to know that Alpharius, Curze, Lorgar, and Perturabo had gone traitor? Was he a prophet? Concurrently, Luther had been sending the Lion record amounts of Astartes to support him in the Crusade for fifty years. How does that translate to "I should be expecting treachery any day now?"



> And lets face it, Manus, Vulkan and Corax were not wasted as you suggest. The first wave overwhelmed and almost destroyed the original traitor forces on Istvaan.


You must have read a different version of "Fulgrim" (or something different from, well, pretty much any other account of Isstvan V). Because in the version that I read, two of the smallest Legions, supported only by the Veterans of the Iron Hands, along with three Primarchs, assault four (understandably understrength) Legions and four Primarchs. And the story is quite clear in conveying that, far from "almost destroying" the enemy, by the time the other four "Loyalist" Legions arrive, Corax and Vulkan have had enough and are arguing to get off the field.

Also, Dorn wasn't even at Isstvan V... so somehow arguing that he had something to do with their performance is... strange. But, again, my point in choosing Dorn and Isstvan V to begin with was that both he and the Lion "failed" due to ignorance of facts they _could not have known about._



> It pretty much just pushes his incompetence before he left Caliban. The fact is he left an angry man on Caliban with the power to recruit astartes during such a time in history.


Read "Descent of Angels" and "Fallen Angels" again. What part of Luther is "angry" at that time? He is described as contrite and repentful. He spells out to Zahariel how terribly he feels about what he did. He throws himself into his work with so much zeal that it's qualified he does an amazing job recruiting and training Astartes.



> Defend him all you want, but to think putting Luther on Caliban to go crazy and not expect anything but something heretical to happen when you take away all his glory, all this while having the power to recruit and make your army, is anything but stupid... I just don't know what is.


That's because you're arguing along a point of view that's from the outside looking in, without taking into consideration relationships and emotional factors.

Luther wasn't your best friend, mentor, and older brother/father figure, so you haven't considered how you would handle it if someone like that ALMOST betrayed you but then obviously regretted it and fought to make things right (see "Descent of Angels"). Nor are you the commander of an entire Legion and its new adoptive homeworld, so you don't know how you would handle a command decision regarding punishing the second most legendary, beloved hero of said planet and Legion over something he _almost_ did. You haven't considered how devastating this would be to the morale of your men, or how this would be received--especially during a dangerous time of transition, when Calibanites are trying to adjust to their alien Terran allies and their ways.

The Lion and Luther DID consider those things, though. That's why the former of the two cooked up a story that allowed Luther to maintain his dignity and kept a fiasco under the sheets. That's why the latter of the two went along with it and did the best he could until he got corrupted by Chaos.

Cheers,
P.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Ironically, I would have to say the Emperor


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## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

Most definitly that Warboss from the "Lost Waaaagh" forget his name but he ended up traveling back in time and then killed himself cause he wanted another copy of his favorite gun.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Monty,

Well, yeah. I mean, never mind establishing a galaxy-spanning empire, re-uniting almost all of a species that had been lost and separated for millennia, and psychically keeping penultimate evil in check... if you're not omniscient, and thus fail to see a massive betrayal orchestrated by one son who in turn corrupts a loyal son through satanic voodoo, you must be incompetent. :wink:

Yeah, yeah, I know. He also screwed over Angron by knocking him out and teleporting him off the planet he was about to fight his last stand on. Never mind that Angron admits he attacked him without provocation, or that his buddies who were left to die had the same implants and probably weren't just standing there (which would explain why the Emperor and his Custodes weren't quick to go rescue them).

I mean, he also screwed over Perturabo by forcing him to leave garrisons on conquered planets. Clearly that was crippling his Legion--ask the Ultramarines. Oh, wait, nevermind, they did the same thing and became the most beloved and biggest Legion of the era. Go figure.

And then, how dare he tell Lorgar how to live his life? Surely a superhuman genius could make an informed decision about religious matters. It's not like Lorgar, if faced with objective truth that the _real_ deities of the galaxy reveled in horrific, brutal rites on planets like, oh, I don't know, let's say Cadia, would opt to follow such monstrous powers, would he?

But wait, he also hosed Mortarion... by... defeating his enemy... after... he failed.

Or, hold on, Curze said he was meant to be that ruthless weapon, for a greater cause. No wait, half his own warriors say it was all for kicks. And, well, he was recruiting rapists after all.

Uhm, he was also a jerk for putting out a kill order on Magnus after he used sorcery and broke the Imperial Palace wards? Wait, no, Horus changed those orders for him.

Horus was screwed too, right? I mean what kind of a jerk gives you a promotion and demonstrates complete trust in you and then goes back to Terra to ensure that the growing Imperium works right? And, seriously, setting up an administrative apparatus to take care of necessary things like taxes while the Primarchs fight a Galactic Crusade? How dare he steal, uhm, Angron and Curze's thunder? They do taxes!!! They can!!!

I mean, there's no way he's more incompetent than, say, the Apothecary who failed at properly setting the nose of someone _who already had a healing factor,_ like Lucius. I mean, this guy has ONE JOB (well, besides collecting Geneseed) and this was the medical equivalent (for an expert battlefield surgeon bred to have nerves of steel and superb knowledge of the Astartes physique) of an infantry guy shooting the broad side of a barn with a shotgun. Had Lucius "remained perfect", he probably would only have remained _slightly_ prickish, which probably would also have led to him dying on Isstvan III. Good job, nameless Apothecary: way to fail at something spectacularly simply, even though you're supposed to serve in the Legion that strives for perfection. And, as a result, way to doom the Galaxy to the predations of a sadistic sociopath who can never truly die. :biggrin:

Cheers,
P.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> Ironically, I would have to say the Emperor


Ouh, how so? So the greatest man to ever walk the stars would be the most incompetent fool in the galaxy... Yea sure... :don-t_mention:








_*Heresy!*_


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## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> I mean, he also screwed over Perturabo by forcing him to leave garrisons on conquered planets. Clearly that was crippling his Legion--ask the Ultramarines. Oh, wait, nevermind, they did the same thing and became the most beloved and biggest Legion of the era. Go figure.


Not quite the same thing. the exact fluff accounts are rather vague on _what_ stayed behind. The 5th edition Marine dex references Guilliman setting up a self-supporting defense system and then leaving behind advisers to ensure proper integration into the Imperium. Whether those advisers are Astartes or mortals is not addressed clearly.

Either way, the way the Marine Codex puts it forth makes it sound more like a temporary thing rather than the permanent garrisons that the Iron Warriors were doing.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Doelago said:


> Ouh, how so? So the greatest man to ever walk the stars would be the most incompetent fool in the galaxy... Yea sure... :don-t_mention:
> 
> _*Heresy!*_


There was that whole "Failure to quell the fires of rebellion" thing. I bet if he had just set some time aside to be a daddy to baby Horus he wouldn't be on a throne counting all the maggots in his ass for the rest of eternity.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Actually, without Lorgar and his cronies corrupting Horus via Chaos voodoo, this would not have happened. I suppose that he could have been more of a daddy to Lorgar, but that would also presuppose that "Aurelian" was able to make reasonable, objective judgement calls like "Chaos worship, as exemplified by the Cadians, probably does not serve as a moral endstate to my need for a religious symbol". :wink:

Cheers,
P.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

OK, I'm, gonna go out on a limb and say Ahriman. This guy hasn't really done much since the Rubric was cast (and that was a fail too), especially when compared to other prominent characters like Abaddon and Kharn.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> OK, I'm, gonna go out on a limb and say Ahriman. This guy hasn't really done much since the Rubric was cast (and that was a fail too), especially when compared to other prominent characters like Abaddon and Kharn.


The Rubric was a blessing in disguise.

Abbadon = favored by all the chaos powers and whose accomplishments are questioned by many.

Kharn = chaos champion who hasn't accomplished anything other than killing his own allies and his enemies.

Ahriman= an outcast on a quest who has summoned a Leviathan, entered the Webway, possess the tome of Magnus and a lot more.

He is also the one with the most free will of the two and the least corrupted.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Kharn = chaos champion who hasn't accomplished anything other than killing his own allies and his enemies.


How is that a bad thing? =)


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I don't think Kharn is especially corrupted, if he took the implants out he might be pretty ok.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

karn is prolly one of those gys that is all nutzo until he smokes a joint then he oddly becomes really sophisticated and calm


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Gree said:


> Not quite the same thing. the exact fluff accounts are rather vague on _what_ stayed behind. The 5th edition Marine dex references Guilliman setting up a self-supporting defense system and then leaving behind advisers to ensure proper integration into the Imperium. Whether those advisers are Astartes or mortals is not addressed clearly.
> 
> Either way, the way the Marine Codex puts it forth makes it sound more like a temporary thing rather than the permanent garrisons that the Iron Warriors were doing.


Gree, you're right... this was a leap/opinion-based interpretation on my part.

Cheers,
P.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I think people mix up random misstakes because the person, who otherwise is brilliant and awesome, fucks up once simply cause he is not allknowing, with someone who had all the facts and still made the wrong decission. The Primarch couldnt know everything, they were beyond superhuman, but not allpowerful.

But if a person who knew all the facts, but still fucked up, that I would vote for as the most imcompetent person. Eidolon did one such misstake at Murder, sending two companies of worth into a planet where they couldnt contact him and wait for their death pretty much. Then we have that Admiral dude, scrweed up pretty much too and the guy at Armageddon. The lord generals in Eisonhorn did such mistakes and the colonel who lost his legs because he was too proud.

And Im jumping the waggong Abbaddon did NOT fail with his Black Crusades. He is working on pleasing the Gods, not necessarily throwing over the Imperium in one sweep. He's not a miracle dude. Taking baby-steps, ever heard of that one?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I don't think Kharn is especially corrupted, if he took the implants out he might be pretty ok.


Come again? He was resurrected by Khorne, i'd say he's pretty damned.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Angel of Blood said:


> Come again? He was resurrected by Khorne, i'd say he's pretty damned.


Yeah but on the whole I don't think he's overly corrupted he still has two legs two eyes, a nose (that I know of) etc etc, take out the psycho implants (which if Age of Darkness is correct, is actually impossible) then who knows.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

?

You do know being tainted by Chaos doesn't mean you necessarily have to grow 8 limbs and smell like a carcass right? It can be purely mental rather than physical.

And the World Eaters's implants did not make them psycho out of nowhere, it merely amplified their aggression.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Malus Darkblade said:


> ?
> 
> You do know being tainted by Chaos doesn't mean you necessarily have to grow 8 limbs and smell like a carcass right? It can be purely mental rather than physical.
> 
> *And the World Eaters's implants did not make them psycho out of nowhere, it merely amplified their aggression.*



Not really, if you read After De'shea and then the other mini story in Age of Darkness you get a distinct impression it was the Implants that turned him nuts.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Kharn had his implants in during "Galaxy in Flames" and he could hold a nice conversation. Then, he gets corrupted by Chaos, and during the battle for Isstvan III he is literally growling, frothing at the mouth, and barely able to stay calm enough to state that there is no escape from the "eight-fold path", or some such.

Sounds like even sans implants he's done. :wink:

Cheers,
P.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Ok I spent like 30 min skimmin through After Deshea and I haven't found anything mentioning the implants. Maybe I missed it, link the quotes from both please.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Ok I spent like 30 min skimmin through After Deshea and I haven't found anything mentioning the implants. Maybe I missed it, link the quotes from both please.


I'm on how calm he appeared, how in control he was, that's how Kharn was normally. Then when he pops up later shortly after he's received his implants you can see how much he's changed, how he's descending into madness all because of the implants.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Again, read "Galaxy in Flames". This is WELL after he got the implants, and he has no problem being calm around Loken and Torgaddon when not in battle. When he is shown in battle during Isstvan III, he's a mess and muttering about the path of Chaos.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

@WoT: if simply getting the implants made you psychotic, then the WE would not have such an impressive track record especially in a universe filled with enemies whom brute strength/aggression will not always work against.

I'm certain ADB will, like Abnett did with the Wolves, recreate the image everyone has of the WE as being mindless, psychotic killers and nothing more.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Oh well who knows, I'm not sure when exactly what the point in time is when he appears in Age of Darkness but it does give a comprehensive look at his mental state. I still think it's mainly the implants that have turned him otherwise....

Why would the Thousand Son say he could save him when it's highly unlikely he couldn't if it was more than just the implants effecting him


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I hope that last statement is loaded w/ some sarcasm. While I know "Prospero Burns" received mixed reviews from the forum readership, I don't think anyone accused Abnett of portraying the Space Wolves as "nothing more" than "mindless, psychotic killers".


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> I hope that last statement is loaded w/ some sarcasm. While I know "Prospero Burns" received mixed reviews from the forum readership, I don't think anyone accused Abnett of portraying the Space Wolves as "nothing more" than "mindless, psychotic killers".


You misread my post.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

well I guess skarl already gave us an idea of what a reasonable we could on the other hand the we in the tales of darkness story featuring the raven guard and alpha legion gave an image of moronic loonies,
the we will just as the sw have their purpose and adb will write a nice book about after which we will all see the we as a great misunderstood legion, until then I go with phoebus,


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Malus, 

You're right! Apologies... :biggrin:

Words,

Even in the short story you're referring to, the corruption of Chaos trumping the effect of the implants is implied:

"He was not always like this. Even in the stories I have heard, he was ferocious but not mad. Something has happened to change him. Something terrible."

And this is after the narrator acknowledges the effect of the implants.

Again, Kharn nonetheless is able to hold a reasonable conversation. And when the narrator talks about what Kharn is to become (this creature consumed by rage), he's specifically talking about the influence of Chaos. Now, as to what he hoped to do for him? I think he was referring to the implants, and that Kharn still had a choice as to whether or not he would follow the path of Chaos.

I really liked, btw, the reasoning they gave for the World Eaters opting for Chaos. It was so much better than "The Emprah betrayed Angron by leaving his people to die!" Instead, it seized on their paranoia and distrust of the bureaucrats chosen to replace the Primarchs (they view them as a parallel of the people who ran the gladiator games), mixed it with a warrior-cult ideal ("the virtuous strong versus the craven weak"), and went so far as to combine the atrocities caused by their implants with their commitment to both their cause and their Primarch (they take on the implants to be like him, and suffer the horrible things they do because they believe they are dedicated more than anyone else to the Imperium).

I don't think these views justify what they did, but they certainly make them more interesting. 

Cheers,
P.


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## Sheep Overlord (Mar 13, 2011)

I nominate some random Guardsman conscript chump who accidentally shot himself with his lasgun before the battle even started (you know this has got to have happened at least once).

All the other nominees were either competent or lucky enough to get into a position of power - and luck is its own form of competence. Once there, yeah, they screwed things up majorly; but at least they got there.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Commander mother fucking Eidolon or whatever the fuck he is called. Suicide drop on "Murder" for the wins. Fucking needed the Luna Wolves to haul his ass out of there.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Abaddon.

He fucking fails. He has the one job to take cadia. Waiting around isn't something chaos marines in the current fluff are especially adept at since we're all piratical space-faring douchebags barely getting enough food and equipment to spectacularly fail in whatever we do.
The gods aren't pleased with his actions at all, in the last advancement of fluff they pay little to no attention to chaos space marine forces, and give them far less gifts/abilities for worship.(If fluff and rules are a correct interpretation of advancement in plotline. I'm actually not knocking the codex, just pointing out this fact.)

Waiting around is very very very bad for most chaos forces, and Abaddon certainly isn't winning us any fame or fortune.

Though IMHO all Chaos Lords in the current fluff are complete failures, and the entire legions(or eugh, warbands) under them fail immensely in terms of competence, basic military strategy, and survival. The turnover rate of chaos lords(In fluff) is above that of generic helmetted guys in a space marine squad. You have better odds of survival by being a low-class named imperial guard than a famed Chaos Lord.
You also have a better chance at winning whatever fight is under way.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

LordWaffles said:


> Abaddon.
> 
> He fucking fails. He has the one job to take cadia. Waiting around isn't something chaos marines in the current fluff are especially adept at since we're all piratical space-faring douchebags barely getting enough food and equipment to spectacularly fail in whatever we do.
> The gods aren't pleased with his actions at all, in the last advancement of fluff they pay little to no attention to chaos space marine forces, and give them far less gifts/abilities for worship.(If fluff and rules are a correct interpretation of advancement in plotline. I'm actually not knocking the codex, just pointing out this fact.)
> ...


Well its kinda hard for Abaddon to do anything since he has no arms... but then again, he probably failed to the point that he lost his arms.


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## Daemon Child (Apr 12, 2011)

Arhiman, he had Inquisitor Zevac prisoner for the atlas infernal, ready to kill him and somehow the inquisitor still managed to escape from death and take the atlas infernal and keys to the black library with him


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## Daemon Child (Apr 12, 2011)

Eliphas the inheritor, he failed at kronus and again on auralia, this guy really needs to go back to boot camp


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

Abbadon doesn't need to take Cadia. He needs to assure there will forever be blood, lust, sickness, suffering, change, etc. If Chaos conquered the Imperium, Chaos would surly fall.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Daemon Child said:


> Eliphas the inheritor, he failed at kronus and again on auralia, this guy really needs to go back to boot camp


Depends on which ending in Retribution you consider canon. 

Eighter he turns into a Daemon prince or gets his ass kicked by Diomedes.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

Lucius the Eternal.

Lets face it, we all know the facts behind him. If someone kills him and takes pleasure in it, he ressurrects within their body and they become a leering face upon his armor.

Each face represents failure then, since he apparently it too fail to beat that opponent.










As you can see, thats a lot of fucking fail right there.


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## mcjeffrey101 (Aug 8, 2011)

Huron Blackheart

He only has a heavy flamer , power weapon, powerfist and 3 attacks! 3 attacks! How are you going to do anything with him with 3 attacks! Definitely not worth 170 points get typhus instead and put him in termie squad


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

I don't remember his name now.

But the chaos lord who is a bad guy in grey knights novel Dark adeptus is a heap of fail.



Ok, in grey knights, the nice heretec chaps have dug up the father of titans stc and are going to give it to Abaddon. They have also built 100 titans. 100 TITANS, mostly reavers (still über dangerous) and are just waiting for mr chaos lord in a fancy ship to pick everything up.

But due to the father of titans beeing the worst titan ever. (Seriously, no void shields?) and some grey knight badassery aswell as some mechanicus badassery. The father of titans die.

Mr chaos lord in fancy ship sees this. And come to the conclusion that the only thing that could have tipped the balance of the war for cadia is lost. Orbital bombards the site, destroys 100 battle ready titans (minus a like two that were destroyed by the GK) takes off and goes to Abaddon tot tell him that there was nothing left to use in on cadia........

I'm fairly sure 100 titans (*100 TITANS!!!!*) could have tipped the balance pretty much, and is not something you blow up, ever.


But that is just my take. Also Strabb isn't the must genious of humans ever.


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## Zerodyme619 (Jul 1, 2011)

I would also say Eidolon. The dude is just too Shtupid to be true...

@Klomster: I thought that was hillarious! I mean, there were not only Reavers, but also a lot of Warlords etc, but this guy comes for his SuperTitan, sees it's gone, and goes totally bananas XD.
"Wtf is this?!? F' it all!" KABOOM


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Klomster said:


> I don't remember his name now.
> 
> But the chaos lord who is a bad guy in grey knights novel Dark adeptus is a heap of fail.


Urkathros or something. A bloody idiot. And it was not just a hundred titans, there were hundreds of titans in there. I mean, c`mon, typical chaos idiocy. :wink:


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

I don't remember all the details, but there were a bunch of titans, and i said, mostly reavers (perhaps even emperors, but i don't think so, most definitely a few warlords).

And his name was with U.... something.
And he flew a special ship from the gothic war, deathmaw or something, i dunno.


Perhaps not the biggest incompetent bastard around (he was very succesful in the gothic war) but that deed will forever stamp him as "Complete idiot" for me.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

The Space wolf aspirant who, after getting the brain download of how to handle a bolter properly, proceeded to blow his brains out while cleaning his bolter. This comes to mind everytime someone mentions the Space Wolves to me:


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

OIIIIIIO said:


> The Space wolf aspirant who, after getting the brain download of how to handle a bolter properly, proceeded to blow his brains out while cleaning his bolter. This comes to mind everytime someone mentions the Space Wolves to me:
> 
> Dead Puppies Aren't Much Fun - YouTube


To be fair it taught them how to use it not how to be safe with it so it's more the programers faughlt,i.e. make sure the safety is on.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

BlackGuard said:


> Lucius the Eternal.
> 
> Lets face it, we all know the facts behind him. If someone kills him and takes pleasure in it, he ressurrects within their body and they become a leering face upon his armor.
> 
> ...


...I never actually thought of that. Ho-lee shit. That IS a metric ton of fail! I mean, I guess one could argue he sometimes lets his opponent reign victorious simply for the sick, Slaaneshi brand pleasure to be had in turning him into Lucious, but still.


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## Evil Pickled Eggs (Jul 12, 2011)

Marbo Sucks he can't kill anything


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

The one and only Emperor of Man. He didnt see the Horus Heresy come screaming at him, and now he is only kept alive be a crumbling antique, and he does nothing all day. Pitiful.


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## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

Unless it can be justified I would have to say the entire Dark Angels Chapter, I know it's not one person but it's one body. The Lion is in their fortress monastary, and unless they wanted him to wake up in room he can't get out of he should have a door leading to his room. How in 10,000 years has nobody at the very least go "Hey why haven't we explored all the tunnels in our house? I wonder where this dark and mysterious hallway leads to"


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## stevey293 (Aug 16, 2011)

Anyone in power armour! How do they wipe their arse?


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

stevey293 said:


> Anyone in power armour! How do they wipe their arse?


They don't. The suit recycles any waste product (I assume while it's still in their system) and creates a paste which they can then consume.

No pooping required!


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## stevey293 (Aug 16, 2011)

hailene said:


> They don't. The suit recycles any waste product (I assume while it's still in their system) and creates a paste which they can then consume.
> 
> No pooping required!



Chomping their own poop even chaos cultists arn't that low. Surely even tyranid are even above that and they are technically insects.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Orks eat their own children, of sorts. Isn't that worse?


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

You can take off the power armour.

Shocking isn't it?

And IIRC most tyranids starve to death, only to be eaten by rippers who then throw themselves into the bio-pools that leads to the hive ships.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Cowlicker16 said:


> Unless it can be justified I would have to say the entire Dark Angels Chapter, I know it's not one person but it's one body. The Lion is in their fortress monastary, and unless they wanted him to wake up in room he can't get out of he should have a door leading to his room. How in 10,000 years has nobody at the very least go "Hey why haven't we explored all the tunnels in our house? I wonder where this dark and mysterious hallway leads to"


It's not like you can get to that room. If you saw the vaguest suggestion of it on an auspex then the Watchers would either kill you or erase that particular memory from your mind.

Beware the litte fellas in robes. They're fucking badasses.

Midnight


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## Malferion (Mar 9, 2011)

The entirety of the Adeptus Mechanicus. They're just a bunch of well-educated uppity haters.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

I'd have to say alot of people are alot more incompetent than the priests in red.

Plus it is their knowledge that keeps the imperium going.
So i have to disagree with you, since there is no reason why they are incompetent.


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## Lord of Rebirth (Jun 7, 2008)

Whoever designed the Leman Russ.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

What? The Leman Russ is fantastic for the Imperium's needs. 

It's heavily armoured, has a large amount of firepower for its size, it's simple to build, repair and maintain and can run off of just about anything. The only thing wrong with it is the high profile and old fashioned shape (which is a result of having amateur game designers create military equipment not knowing how technical their product would get and a conscious desire to portray the Imperium as backwards).


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

Interesting, before reading titanicus I also had the perception that the mechanicus are a bunch of mechanised humans who keep their lore to themselves banish all research and creative thought and who's knowledge is degrading,
after reading mechanicus I changed that perception, the book gave an image of the mechanicus who indeed is rather secretive with certain knowledge but operates if required at a very high tech level where creativity is not a sin, this gave me kinda hope for the empirium, regarding their tanks, I am convinced they can make tanks who are a lot more tau like but that is just sub-optimal, if you perform an optimisation which they did you throw in the balance cost (logistics cost resources cost), manufacturability (resources availability, repair abimity...) and profit, I find it acceptable to believe a design as a the Russ comes out of the equation. The main issue I still have with the mechanicus is that I do not understand if they peruse critical knowledge, e.g. the creation of imperator class titans, I mean they have a few lying around if they could really reverse engineer them and start mass producing them that would really help the empirium, (In understood one of the reason they do not is that AI is required to built them ?)


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

Masked Jackal said:


> Anybody saying Abaddon needs to be shot by the way, his Black Crusades have accomplished what they intended, and a status quo is likely being held by the Chaos Gods.
> 
> Anyways, that one captain from Soulstorm, for the Imperial Guard. He lost what, a hundred Baneblaes? How the hell do you do that?!?


those where apparently "shipped off to other battlefields" he has/had nothing to say about that.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

They do in fact build new titans, its just a very slow process as only a few forgeworlds can and it's a heavily ritualized (not to mention difficult and laborious)process, the titan's are the effigies of the Omnissiah after all. 

I imagine that the lower levels of the Mechancius, just learn by rote and don't really understand why x happens when they do y. To them the belief, prayers and functionality of the machines are all connected. A higher ranked tech priest with actual scientific understanding likely knows the scientific principles of why x happened when y was done. He just also believes that the scientific function was possible due to the power of the Omnissiah and that by using technology and acquiring knowledge one honours him. 

Additionally it would seem to be the higher ranked tech priests who perform new research and study technology, further suggesting that the higher in rank you go the more scientific understanding there is. The Mechnacius has a vested interest in keeping people ignorant, it grants them power.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

I understood they are still able to built titans up to warlord class , the emperator class titan I understood needs AI to be built as such it can no longer be made,
in titanicus even medium ranked tech priests showed creativity and efficiency, makes me rather eager for graham his new book


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

All Titans use limited A.I (its more like animal level instincts than true ai which is banned due to the Iron Man rebellion), though presumable Imperator titans do have 'stronger' ai.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

It's not AI, it's a "Machine spirit."

Which automatically runs all important subsystems in a titan, have a small form of conscience and can even act on its own accord....

Totally not an AI...... [/sarcasm]

They can barely build reavers anymore either.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

I understand that AI and a machine spirit are not the same
what I was trying to say is that I understood that AI is required to be able to manufacture a imperator class titan,


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