# IG Veterans Questions



## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

So I know a lot of Mech armies goes spamming 3x Meltavet squads as much as possible but I was wondering if it's viable to run other weapons such as turning the Vet squad into a BS4 weapons platform? Or would that be better done running Infantry Platoons?

Here are the 2 choices I had in mind: 
*Note: They will all be in Chimeras

[2-3 squads of]
Veteran Squad 10
Veterans Weapons Team - Autocannon or Lascannon

or 

Platoon Command Squad 5
All Flamers
Infantry Squad
Heavy Weapons Team - Autocannon or Lascannon
Infantry Squad
Heavy Weapons Team - Autocannon or Lascannon


If I had 200 points to work with I could have either 2 squads of Vets or the entire Infantry Platoon squad listed above. Benefits of the Vets is BS4 and the benefit of the Infantry Platoon is that I also get 5 additional guys and 4 have Flamers just because of how cheap everything is. 

Does it boil down to preference for this or should I just bite the bullet and goto BS3 so I can have more guys? Only thing that makes me cautious of going towards a Infantry Platoon is BS4 makes it quite a bit more reliable to pop enemy light-vehicles when I want it to get done. Even more so when I start wanting to spam some Lascannons over Autocannons.


What have you Generals who have been playing IG for longer than a month have to say about this? I'm a little torn between both and I don't want to build one or the other then regret it.


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## Trickstick (Mar 26, 2008)

Well the problem with veterans is that they are no more resilient than your average guardsmen, unless you take a doctrine that pushes them up to twice the price of normal infantry.

The way I play, veterans are the close range specialists; they stay in their chimera or jump out of their valkyrie so that they are close to the enemy and unload melta/plasma depending on what they are against. I have not tried static infantry much but vets with an autocannon and three grenade launchers or plasma can throw out a fair amount of anti transport and anti infantry fire. You could even stick on camo if that is your thing, 3+ cover is nice.

My overall philosophy with the guard is that quantity is king. You have to think if that vet squad as good as twice the number of normal guys. BS4 may sound good but not if you can get twice as many normal men for the same cost. Vets are awesome but I feel they are best used to apply masses of special weapons to one specific place; 'normals' are better for general duties. The same goes for my tanks, 3 stripped down tanks are better than 2 upgraded ones.

As with anything you should just play some games with different syles to find the one you like. For instance I like to seperate the platoon heavy weapons into their own squads as I find that I hate wasting lasgun shots on transports. Some people hate HWS as they are vulnerable to return fire. It is all a balancing act really.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Order covers the BS4 for ordinary troops - so a Guardsman Blob with 6 Autocannons and a Vox Caster has a decent chance of getting 75% accuracy rather than 66%.

As for veterans No other guard squad allows such concentrated firepower - and at short range, you're going to want to ensure you get the most accuracy from your weaponry - and 3 BS4 melta shots cannot be gone wrong with.


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

Hmm so #'s = power for IG then over upgrades as per your suggestion? I think I might go that route then.

Could you group a Platoon any way you want? 

Say a Platoon consists of

PCS
3x Infantry 
2x HWS

Can I deploy all the Infantry Squad as 1 big squad and the PCS + HWS as 1 big squad?
Can I deploy them all as one giant squad?
Can I deploy the 3x Infantry Squad + HWS together and the PCS by itself?


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## ElCheezus (Jan 19, 2011)

The only units you can group are the ones with the "Combined Squad" rule, and that's only the Infantry Squads, not the HWS or the SWS.

With Veterans, I usually give them Plasmaguns. A plasma is actually better at taking out AV 12 and lower when you're between 6" and 12", plus the extra shots take out all forms of infantry. Yes, melta is better at 6" and less, but I usually reserve that for heavy vehicles. Once you've got at least a few units with Melta, then Plasma will probably be a better choice.

If you want heavy weapons, I'd stick with HWSs. The biggest problem is the BS 3 and inability to take Vox Casters, so they're not big on the "taking orders" side of things. My source for heavy weapons, then, has been Vendettas or template/blast weapons. I've been tempted to play around with combining 5 Infantry Squads with Heavy Weapons, and then sticking 40 of the guys in cover with the heavies out front. That unit would be near impossible to get off of an objective. Of course, it would also cost over 300 points, so I've never tried it.


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

I usually run 2 Chiplasmavets and 2 Chimeltavets in my army lists, but you'll want an infantry platoon because the Vets usually boil down to psuedo-suicidal units.

Theres actually a guy at my GW that uses a Vet squad all w/ shotguns and Grenadiers and Demo doctrines in a Chimera. Deadly at close range but only then. 

Idk if it's worth the points but it's kinda funny when you have a guy throw a demo pack out of the Chimera and have it kill all 10 units in a SM squad.


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

Is it possible to put a heavy weapons team (say 3 all equipped with lascannons) in a Chimera? Like if I had a platoon of; pcs, 3x infantry squads and 1x heavy weapon squad. One of the infantry squads would buy a chimera and the heavy weapons team can ride in it. Does this work?


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## ElCheezus (Jan 19, 2011)

Yes, but you can't deploy in the Chimera, since it is a dedicated transport for another unit. This means that you'd deploy them next to the Chimera, and on turn 1, you'd have to move into the transport, and wouldn't be able to shoot.


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

I think the HWS can take a Chimera as a dedicated transport, if not, juts buy a Chimera and deploy the HWS in it.


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

Cyleune said:


> I think the HWS can take a Chimera as a dedicated transport, if not, juts buy a Chimera and deploy the HWS in it.


no & you can't. The chimera can only be purchased as a dedicated transport for a squad & as such ONLY that squad may be deployed in it. Refer to ElCheezus post.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Only Guard HWS that can take a Dedicated Transport is Elysians, and they have no Autocannons or Lascannons to do that with, not to mention those transports have no firing ports.

Guard Blobs work well on the basis that poor accuracy with poor weapons is exponentially increased by a PCS, Commisar, several Special Weapons in the PCS spread around the squad, and multiple Squad heavy weapons benefitting from higher Ld from Commisar, and a Vox Caster reroll (Ld9 with reroll = 98% success). Can't sit in a vehicle, but you can play up wound allocation to the max. 

I like - PCS, 4 Snipers, Commisar, 2 Fists, 2 Meltabombs
IG Squad, Vox, Plasma, AC or LC
IG Squad, Vox, Melta, AC or LC
IG Squad, Vox, Flamer, AC or LC
IG Squad, GL, AC or LC
IG Squad, Sniper, AC or LC

Bring it down gives you 5 Snipers, and 5 AC/LC Shots, and FRFSRF gives 90 Shots at rapid fire range. 2 Hidden PFists can get some wounds on MC's, while Bombs blow up walkers that hold against the 2-3 Vendetta's and what feels like 5 million lascannons in an IG army.


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

I like:
PCS
IG Squad, Commissar, LC
IG Squad, LC
IG Squad, AC
IG Squad, AC
IG Squad, HB

Thats how I run at least one of my Platoons in my Gunline.


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

What if I'm aiming at a primarily Mech Army? I would prefer to have my squads in Chimeras if I'm getting any PCS + Infantry Squads. It seems like the norm though is to just put them out on the field as one giant Infantry Squad... Is this because their so expendable their not worth the Chimeras?


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

Well if your going for Mech, Chimelta/plasmavets are the best option with 1 or 2 PCS each w/ 2 Infantry Squads with LC's. That leaves a ton of room for your heavy support (i.e. 2 LRBTs w/ LC + HB Sponsons and a Manti)


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## ElCheezus (Jan 19, 2011)

Vaz said:


> Only Guard HWS that can take a Dedicated Transport is Elysians, and they have no Autocannons or Lascannons to do that with, not to mention those transports have no firing ports.
> 
> Guard Blobs work well on the basis that poor accuracy with poor weapons is exponentially increased by a PCS, Commisar, several Special Weapons in the PCS spread around the squad, and multiple Squad heavy weapons benefitting from higher Ld from Commisar, and a Vox Caster reroll (Ld9 with reroll = 98% success). Can't sit in a vehicle, but you can play up wound allocation to the max.
> 
> ...


This sounds like you're adding your PCS to your blob, which you can't do. The PCS doesn't have Combined Squads, so they have to stay on their own. Goodnes knows I wish it weren't so, because then we could have hidden fists without using DKoK.



Cyleune said:


> Well if your going for Mech, Chimelta/plasmavets are the best option with 1 or 2 PCS each w/ 2 Infantry Squads with LC's. That leaves a ton of room for your heavy support (i.e. 2 LRBTs w/ LC + HB Sponsons and a Manti)


If you're going for Mech, I wouldn't use Platoons at all, and I'd stick with Vets. I also disagree with giving Infantry Squads any heavy weapons, but that's a different post.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

syypher said:


> What if I'm aiming at a primarily Mech Army? I would prefer to have my squads in Chimeras if I'm getting any PCS + Infantry Squads. It seems like the norm though is to just put them out on the field as one giant Infantry Squad... Is this because their so expendable their not worth the Chimeras?


In that case, you want Veterans. The minimum cost for platoons mech is 300+ pts, while Vets is 150 odd, and has 3 Special Weapons at BS4.

By all means you can run them, but you won't get far with them, as basic guardsman suck arse, and you bleed KP's that way (ChiVets are 2, minimum Infantry Squads are 4-6, and if you blob, you can't Mech them).



ElCheezus said:


> This sounds like you're adding your PCS to your blob, which you can't do. The PCS doesn't have Combined Squads, so they have to stay on their own. Goodnes knows I wish it weren't so, because then we could have hidden fists without using DKoK.


And so the two things that made them viable (hidden PFists, and combining Bring it Down with the Sniper Fire in a blob squad) is actually removed, making Veterans the go-to guys for a competitive army. Go figure.


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

Hmmm ok going to go plasmavet in chims. Should they take the armor upgrades? Or pts better spent elsewhere?


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## ElCheezus (Jan 19, 2011)

Better spend elsewhere, for sure.


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## leinad-yor (Apr 14, 2008)

If you plan on running plasma vets then you do need to think about giving them carapace as it will increase the chances of surviving overheats, and if you decide to run melta vets then the demo doctrine is also a good idea as if you plan on popping a tank if the meltas don't get it done when shooting then melta bomb assault will finish the job.

Lein


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

syypher said:


> Hmmm ok going to go plasmavet in chims. Should they take the armor upgrades? Or pts better spent elsewhere?


They have the Chimera to keep them safe(ish) so spend the points elsewhere....unless you have truly filled every weapons slot already.


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