# Effectiveness of Lychguard



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

As I read stories of battles and batreps I frequently hear about lychguard reflections making big differences or doing something that can only be described as fantastic. I got to thinking....do you think that this is due to the majority of players ignorance to the rule itself and the fact that necrons are so new that people don't know how to deal with them in general? I mean, as the game progresses and people get used to fighting necrons, are lychguard's effectiveness going to decrease outside of being impossible to kill tarpit? When I read the rule for the reflect, I simply thought to myself....well I just won't shoot them with high AP weapons when I'm setting up a charge. 

What do you guys think? I'm sure there are situations where shooting them is unavoidable, but by in large I think that people will adapt.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Ravner298 said:


> As I read stories of battles and batreps I frequently hear about lychguard reflections making big differences or doing something that can only be described as fantastic. I got to thinking....do you think that this is due to the majority of players ignorance to the rule itself and the fact that necrons are so new that people don't know how to deal with them in general? I mean, as the game progresses and people get used to fighting necrons, are lychguard's effectiveness going to decrease outside of being impossible to kill tarpit? When I read the rule for the reflect, I simply thought to myself....well I just won't shoot them with high AP weapons when I'm setting up a charge.
> 
> What do you guys think? I'm sure there are situations where shooting them is unavoidable, but by in large I think that people will adapt.


Yeah, and their only vehicle, IIRC, is not an assault craft. So, it is less than optimal.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

lokis222 said:


> Yeah, and their only vehicle, IIRC, is not an assault craft. So, it is less than optimal.


Yeah, I forgot about that part too. Also the fact that if it's destroyed they have to walk on from reserve. Once that's widely known that transport will be #1 on the enemy target priority.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Regardless of how you use them the enemy will most likely get to shoot at em once before assault, however you can virtually guarantee its only one round of shooting with the following. 1) Include a monolith or two in your army so you can just walk the unit onto the other side of the table. 2)Take a veil in the unit so you can deep strike into the heart of the enemy formation, once you have eliminated serious threats with the rest of your army.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> Regardless of how you use them the enemy will most likely get to shoot at em once before assault, however you can virtually guarantee its only one round of shooting with the following. 1) Include a monolith or two in your army so you can just walk the unit onto the other side of the table. 2)Take a veil in the unit so you can deep strike into the heart of the enemy formation, once you have eliminated serious threats with the rest of your army.


They all have the issue of letting them be shot at or just plain avoided in the long run. They only have a 12 " threat range. They will lose to dedicated CC units. And they are very expensive for what you end up with.

Monolith variant is 400+pts.
Ship variant is 300+pts
Teleport variant is 250+ pts 

With some much more interesting and effective choices, they keep getting cut from my lists.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

Here's how I will run my Lychguard:

Overlord w/ various gubbinz

Cryptek w/ Veil of Darkness

5 Lychguard w/ Swords and Boards


I will present the enemy with a conundrum. I teleport right in front of an enemy shooty unit/ a unit I want to destroy using the Veil. Now, my opponent can either:

1) Shoot me and risk reflection. (I win.)
2) Not shoot me and avoid reflection. (I win again.)
3) Assault me. (I win a turn earlier than I expected.)

If they choose option one or two I'll assault afterwards anyway, so really there are few situations where I can lose out here. It forces the opponent to make a decision which really has few positive outcomes for him.

Of course, he could do some badass shooting and kill loads of guys, but they still deliver the Overlord which can deal monstrous damage when he has 2+, 3++, a S7 Power weapon and Mindshackle scarabs. 

I have yet to try this out but I can't think of any way it could go disastrously wrong unless I am stupid with my choice of unit. That and Deep Strike Mishaps. :laugh:


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> Here's how I will run my Lychguard:
> 
> Overlord w/ various gubbinz
> 
> ...


Or they shoot you with ap 4 stuff and so do all their friends while backing away from you. Unless you are risking serious DS mishap, they are then out of your 12 inch threat range. Then, a turn or so later, you have been shot to death or you get rolled by a dedicated CC unit.

Or Jaws of the World Wolf or any ability that removes models from play or etc, etc, etc.

You tie up 200pts or so of models with your 400+ and will probably not make back their value.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

You can't choose to use the shield. They have to hit you with weapons that first force you to not have an armour save.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

I mean, from a cost efficiency perspective there are things that just do it better. As Farseer suggested, I also see that as the only real way to use them. However, youre looking at an incredibly expensive unit right (400-500 ish?) there that more often than not will not get its points back for sniping a shooty squad in the back.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I think the real underlying fact here is that necron can do CC, but arn't designed for it, even wraiths suck when you consider they only have a flat 3+ armor save meaning anything that gets to strike back with a power weapon will virtually massacre them. However lychgaurd are hardly a bad unit, its just that all the same stuff that makes terminators suck makes them suck such as high cost, low int, low model count, and lack of cheap effective transport.....and no a land raider is just as friggen stupid as a monlith or night scythe, hence why you don't see em at the highest levels of play (Its funny how peaple still think land raiders are competative when lances and cheap melta are the order of the day).


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## Wax (Jan 6, 2010)

LukeValantine said:


> even wraiths suck when you consider they only have a flat 3+ armor save


3++ and 2w ain't bad. Neither is an upgrade that makes everyone go after you. Wraiths are a good unit (not being effected by terrain if one of the best special rules assault jump infantry can get), probably the best CC unit Crons have. The only problem is that they compete with Scarabs and Destroyers for slots.


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## Khargoth (Aug 5, 2010)

LukeValantine said:


> ....Wraiths don't have a 3++ they have a 3+, they have no inv save or reanimation roll.


Actually, they *do.* Their stats list a standard 3+ save, but they also have a Phase Shifter in their Wargear, so they actually have a 3+/3++, which is freaking badass.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

And that, kiddies, is why you read the rules. :laugh:


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Hmm your right, I apologies for my oversight Wax. I always assumed that a phase shifter was a HQ specific wargear. Well in that case wraiths are clearly a superior choice in most instances. On the plus side beasts of war was also mistaken on the matter. 

Also darvaleth the codex has been out in my area for 4 days its easy to make oversights when you have read the book twice, not everyone has the time to memorize the entire book page to page in 1 days worth of reading.


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## MidnightKid333 (Feb 2, 2011)

Khargoth said:


> Actually, they do. Their stats list a standard 3+ save, but they also have a Phase Shifter in their Wargear, so they actually have a 3+/3++, which is freaking badass.




Top priority targets:

1. Deathray
2. Lychguard



^Somebody write that down!


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

midnightkid333 said:


> Top priority targets:
> 
> 1. Deathray
> 2. Lychguard
> ...


I would scratch out number 1 and 2. Death ray is neat, but a proper staggered formation with mess with that thing to no end and it will be easypeasy to pop... for anyone except nids. >_<;; Combined with the average 10.5" for the line you draw through units. There are other much worse threats. As for lychguard, one group of devilguants will wipe them out over a turn or two and if you have a tervigon with onslaught, you can walk around them laughing while you do this.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

Edit: Nevermind. I'm a tad slow this morning. >.>


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