# There is no god-emperor



## NurglingStomper (Jan 31, 2009)

The emperor is no god. :shok:

Go ahead bring on the Inquisition.:threaten:

What do you think? I say the Emperor should not be viewed as a god but more as a great man (Space Marine thinking). The other side of me just keeps repeating 
"Let the galaxy burn, let the galaxy burn, let the galaxy burn, let the galaxy burn..." hehe:mrgreen:


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

Mmmm.... Someone's on the path to heresy...

Listen to the voices... The Carrion-God of man is no more than a man...

A rotting carcass oppressing mankind...

True freedom lies in the embrace of the Chaos Gods, the true gods of mankind...

:biggrin:


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## DarknessWithin (Jan 4, 2009)

Tsk,tsk. I thought the blood angels would have taught you better:grin:
I don't believe in the emperor mainly because it's part of a GAME.
When in game mode i think that the Emperor DID exist but is now a useless skeleton who once sentanced the C'tan into hiding. It is because of this i kill any space marine and tell him to pray to the skeleton to save him. 
Sumarry, He onced existed but is dead, and nobody gives a flying crap
DarknessWithin


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## raverboi (Jan 15, 2009)

sanguinius would be rolling over in his grave, 

*teleports grey knight terminators to nurglingstompers house*

i would just love to see him in an apocalypse formation :shok:


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

What do any of us really know of gods? I follow the Star Gods, they are truely material gods! Bow before the mighty C'tan!


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

*BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!*

Khorne is the only true god, we all know that. Not some rotting moldy lump hooked up to a gold plated toilet. No, a real god sits upon a throne of skulls surrounded by a river of blood! See, Khorne is a simple god, a ruthless god. He wants only two things, 1) Blood, and 2) Skulls. How do you compete with that! So come to the light and worship a true god that will reward you for your loyalty and service. :spiteful:


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

the emperor is a lighthouse.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Engelus said:


> the emperor is a lighthouse.


Really tall and shiny!!


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## CamTheApostle (Oct 31, 2008)

_The False-Emperor of mankind was not a god, only a fool who sought to become a god. The corpse-lord attempted to create slaves out of the Astartes, to serve the feeble humans. He attempted to blind all in his deception and bind the galaxy in chains. 

However, the True Gods denied him this and enlightened many of the legions. The Gods chose Horus to be their vessel, enlightening and empowering him to unite the former-slaves of the False-Emperor to strike down this deceiver. And through Horus, the Liar was laid low and broken. 

His empire was shattered, and only conflict remains. Only by the weak clinging to the tattered lies of their False-Emperor has the Imperium remained coherent. But now conflict is constant, as the strong rise above the weak. There is only War. There is only Chaos._

---From the Book of Camillus


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Being a Dark Angel, I really am impartial to all this. :grin:


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I believe the emperor was right in doing so by making the legions come back and serve humanity, afterall that's what they were already doing, just through war. The emperor believed in peace and those who wanted to rule the galaxy over him aka the chaos gods enticed his follwers to turn on him. Hence why there will now only be war and not peace.


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## hells_fury (Apr 17, 2008)

so many heretics, so little time to burn them all. you traitors are not worthy of the emperors forgiveness as you are cleansed by the flames of the sisters.


hey, this is fun, come on people, diss the emperor so i can burn you too ;p


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## Huffy (Nov 25, 2008)

Da, humies boss is weak, not tuff like da boyz, Da orkz will fix him good, give em a choppa in da head!!


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## NurglingStomper (Jan 31, 2009)

Sanguinius was _way_ better than Horus, he should have been the _true_ emperor of mankind.


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

He is way better but lost to him? how does that work out. Sanguinius is the most overrated guard dog ever, and the Emperor will die soon enough, have faith my heretic brethren. Wow this is fun


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## NurglingStomper (Jan 31, 2009)

Horus was at the height of his powers while Sanguinius was already tired from fighting. It doesn't matter now. Sanguinius is dead so I will lead my blood angels down the true path of glory (Chaos) Bwahahahaha :laugh:


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

But only whats his face was supposed to have ever beat Horus in combat training, so that kinda suggests that sang was weaker, and the worst guard dog ever.


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## NurglingStomper (Jan 31, 2009)

Leman Russ I think

I believe Sang also beat him. He was not a guard dog! Thats Rogal Dorn or Robourte Guilliman hehe


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Sanguinius and Russ both beat Horus in single combat but then he didn't have the strength of 4 gods going through him....


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

If The Emperor is not a god then what is the shiny light the Sisters giving of then?


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## NurglingStomper (Jan 31, 2009)

It's all placebo affect. :biggrin: Space Marines don't worship him and they're doin fine.


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Everyone Worships someone.... Except for maybe Orks and Possibly Nids thats just a pecking order lol!


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## CamTheApostle (Oct 31, 2008)

Vanchet said:


> If The Emperor is not a god then what is the shiny light the Sisters giving of then?


Belief, even the faith in the Corpse God, is a powerful thing. However, I believe that the Whores of the False Emperor use technology crafted by the machine cult of Mars. A energy barrier or something of that nature, the same as used by Esscelarchy sycophants.

True faith grants true power, as is evident by the gifts of the Warp Gods. What do the servants of the Corpse God have that can compare with Immortality?


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

You saying that sang is better than Horus is not correct, especcially whn you take into account the fact that Horus had the sense to gain the favour of the gods making victory certain. And sang was a guard dog, he knew he was going to die but ultimately still went for Horus like any good guard dog does. And Dorn was also a guard dog, but to a lesser degree, Dorn was on the emps side and fought at the Seige of Tera then went to the battle, but think of it like this, which was the better guard dog. The answer is sang, he fought bloodthirster man, he defended the gate, he fought Horus, he could have left the Emp to do it but he did, cos thats want a good dog does


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## NurglingStomper (Jan 31, 2009)

Why do you hate Sang?


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## CamTheApostle (Oct 31, 2008)

Sanguinius died. Painfully. Horus killed him. Without any great effort. And then, Horus beat the Emperor to within an inch of his life. Get over it.

How then, you may wonder, did Horus not win? Because the Gods did not wish him too. All that happened did so according to their grand design.


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

I have never understood why people claim Horus failed. Yes it would have worked better if he had killed the Emp, but the Imperium is slowly dieing, and Horus caused it, in my eyes that is success


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## NurglingStomper (Jan 31, 2009)

He failed in killing the Emperor and remaking the Imperium in the likeness of Chaos.


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## NurglingStomper (Jan 31, 2009)

You think if Horus was going to bait the Emperor onto his ship he would every dirty trick in the book to kill him. Like every man in that ship would attack. Lay traps and all that good stuff. Oh well, I guess our only hope is in Abaddon.


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## hells_fury (Apr 17, 2008)

CamTheApostle said:


> Sanguinius died. Painfully. Horus killed him. Without any great effort. And then, Horus beat the Emperor to within an inch of his life. Get over it.
> 
> How then, you may wonder, did Horus not win? Because the Gods did not wish him too. All that happened did so according to their grand design.


or they liked the emperor better then Horus lol, hes unloved ;p



CamTheApostle said:


> Belief, even the faith in the Corpse God, is a powerful thing. However, I believe that the Whores of the False Emperor use technology crafted by the machine cult of Mars. A energy barrier or something of that nature, the same as used by Esscelarchy sycophants.
> 
> True faith grants true power, as is evident by the gifts of the Warp Gods. What do the servants of the Corpse God have that can compare with Immortality?


heretic, we dont have that *swirls cloak to hide blinking lights* the emperor protects us


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## gwmaniac (Sep 1, 2008)

Agreed! The Emperor is no god, he is only a greatly revered warrior. I wonder why the Imperials still love him so much as a god, he's just a superman.


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

apparently the up-coming HH book will say just that. that the big E never thought of himself as a god and the review i got of the story was "its effectly a 30 page rant against religion and belief of any kind".

personally i find that rather disappointing, obviously aggressive atheism has become something of a fashion these days, but there is really no need to transpose that into a fictional universe. clearly there are no true 'gods' in 40k, because they all find their origins inside the universe and after its creation. however, that does not mean that certain beings are effectively treated as gods, such as Gork and Mork, the Chaos gods, the Eldar gods and even the Emporer.

personally i take it as an insult to the background that the HH books are trying so hard to rework the Emporer as an entirely secular character. it makes little or no sense when we take into account that he is supposed to 'answer prayers' and 'perform miracles'. it spits in the face of the SoB who recieve acts of faith and of the GK who were supposedly formed by the E himself and say that faith protects them. and is frankly illogical when taken with the whole, 'he wants to die, so he can be re-born as a supreme warp being'.

but then, maybe its all just a ruse, there are a great number of references to people having faith in the Emporer, even if he doesn't have faith in himself (Flight of the Eisenstein is full of the stuff).


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

well it might be a rant by the author to try to impose secularism by "fictionally" writing about atheism. However, I think you're getting 10,000 years ago mixed up with the here and now of the 40k universe! SOB's weren't around, and the faith was just starting to bud in the first few books of the HH. However you can read all through the series that the Emperor was NOT considered a deity by his loyal followers. The Marines fought that ideology tooth and nail. Soooo while I think it's a waste of paper to read the obvious, especially 30 pages, it is a truth that occurred during the HH.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

admiraldick said:


> apparently the up-coming HH book will say just that. that the big E never thought of himself as a god and the review i got of the story was "its effectly a 30 page rant against religion and belief of any kind".
> 
> personally i find that rather disappointing, obviously aggressive atheism has become something of a fashion these days, but there is really no need to transpose that into a fictional universe. clearly there are no true 'gods' in 40k, because they all find their origins inside the universe and after its creation. however, that does not mean that certain beings are effectively treated as gods, such as Gork and Mork, the Chaos gods, the Eldar gods and even the Emporer.
> 
> ...


You are so up yourself! *"personally i take it as an insult"*. 

There is loads of Sci-fi and Fantasy literature out there that debunks god myths, and loads where there are gods all over the place. 
Everyone knows there aren't really any gods, but in fiction they add flavour to a story sometimes. Doesn't it make it more noble that someone would sacrifice themselves without the luxury of being a god?
Religion is a control mechanism, the SoB are just cogs in the power/domination machine. The Emporer is a powerful psi entity, it is only natural (is such an un-natural setting) that this would have an affect on people; but not more than the Hive Mind in a Tyranid fleet.


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## Tycho's Elite (Dec 13, 2008)

Just to let you know that Sanguinius didn't just die for no reason, he put a cut into Horus armor which allowed the emporer to kill him with all his power. Also the emporer pretty much killed himself because he used all his power to kill Horus.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

darklove said:


> You are so up yourself! *"personally i take it as an insult"*.
> 
> There is loads of Sci-fi and Fantasy literature out there that debunks god myths, and loads where there are gods all over the place.
> Everyone knows there aren't really any gods, but in fiction they add flavour to a story sometimes. Doesn't it make it more noble that someone would sacrifice themselves without the luxury of being a god?
> Religion is a control mechanism, the SoB are just cogs in the power/domination machine. The Emporer is a powerful psi entity, it is only natural (is such an un-natural setting) that this would have an affect on people; but not more than the Hive Mind in a Tyranid fleet.


Go ahead and tell my Sisters of Battle that their God doesn't answer their prayers while they riddle your rotten carcass with hundreds of Faith driven AP1 bolts. :so_happy:


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## hells_fury (Apr 17, 2008)

Arcane said:


> Go ahead and tell my Sisters of Battle that their God doesn't answer their prayers while they riddle your rotten carcass with hundreds of Faith driven AP1 bolts. :so_happy:


thats the spirit, then gasp in horror as my canoness laughs at your power weapons with her 2+ invunreable save before carving you in half :biggrin:

the emperor is a god to his minions, no doubt about that, but in truth there is no way he is a god, he is powerful and he has lived a long time, but a god does not live on a support machine (the golden throne). look at it this way, chuck norris is not a god yet he is by far more powerful then the emperor.

all that being said, to me and my sisters he is a god, he bestows great acts of faith onto us through our belief. remember, what he is is in the eyes of the beholder. to the sisters and many of his followers who's only chance of survival is in him and his armies will see him as their god and protector. to chaos or those who wish to think for themselves and not be sheep he is a mortal wielding great power.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

You are completely wrong hells_fury, the greatest god of all time lived and died on the golden throne, and his word still lives on forever...

RIP Elvis Presley.


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## Phenatix (Feb 15, 2009)

A God must suck if he has to be plugged into a wall.


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## Fluff'Ead (Aug 22, 2007)

darklove said:


> There is loads of Sci-fi and Fantasy literature out there that debunks god myths, and loads where there are gods all over the place.
> Everyone knows there aren't really any gods, but in fiction they add flavour to a story sometimes.


Giving something supposedly mythical like a god a pseudo scientific origin tends to demystify it.
Now, is 40k the kind of setting that works better with these things dissected and debunked?

It's like explaining the Force with "Midi-Chlorians" in the Star Wars prequels - it kills the magic without gaining anything.


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## chrisman 007 (Jan 3, 2008)

*declares exterminatus*

Still, the good and holy Emperor could of easily kicked horus's arse. However, Horus was one of the Emperor's most loved sons and he thought that he could save Horus from the pull of the chaos gods. When he realized he was beyond help, the Emperor just smashed Horus. The Chaos Gods take advantage of humanity. They are not true gods, as they care nothing for humanity and just wish to possess and manipulate it. The dark gods wish to burn the universe and everything that's in it, not save it. The Emperor wished to unite humanity under a single banner, and he did until the Horus Heresy happened. The dark gods are the terrible ones, not the Emperor!


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

NurglingStomper said:


> He failed in killing the Emperor and remaking the Imperium in the likeness of Chaos.


He may have failed to 'kill' the Emperor. But he helped in killing the Old Imperium and how it was.
And look at the Galaxy now; more powers have risen and all the factions are at constant war, the universe is in a bit of a chaotic state. If the entire Imperium was remade in a Chaotic fashion then they would have less people and races to war against, only each other (but I'm still pretty sure they would be fine with that).

And what are you talking about? The Emperor is the 5th Chaos God!


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## hells_fury (Apr 17, 2008)

Concrete Hero said:


> And what are you talking about? The Emperor is the 5th Chaos God!


what a twist


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Think about it... For all those people that have read Leigon; That moment when Grammaticus really 'sees' the Emperor.

Its a bit of a reference back to some ancient White Dwarf fluff hinting about him being one of the Warp entities. Couldn't tell you which issue though sadly


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## ajizzal (Feb 21, 2009)

all of you have little faith in the god emperor.
see that ^^

not emperor,god emperor.All you heretics will be destroyed in his venerable name.


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## Corporal Chaos (Nov 27, 2007)

The Emperor is an example. He is dead. Come to Chaos!


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

The emperor of man isnt a god, true. I am a loyal space marine but he was only a man who thought of himself as a god since he controlled a majority of the planets, hell he even made his loyal space marines think of him as a god. he was a man with great ambition, and that is what ultimately led to his downfall...that and leaving his forces in horus's hands.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

The Emperor is dead, long live the Emperor!


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## Huffy (Nov 25, 2008)

we all know that the emperor gets his power from the magical golden toilet. . . so
ALL HAIL THE MAGICAL GOLDEN TOILET


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

The emperor didn't think of himself as a god. He banned all religions so worshipping him was wrong by his rules. Even though many people still did against his law as they believed him to be a messiah. when He was no longer around to stop say He's not a god the religion just took off....


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## Necronion squirrel (Jan 16, 2009)

C'tan is the best; the nightbringer in his true form could melt the emperor just by looking at him; and kill all the chaos gods with a single hit! kneel imperial lapdogs! kneel chaos suckups! all will kneel to the mighty C'TAN!!!!!!!!!!!


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

Lord Reevan said:


> The emperor didn't think of himself as a god. He banned all religions so worshipping him was wrong by his rules. Even though many people still did against his law as they believed him to be a messiah. when He was no longer around to stop say He's not a god the religion just took off....


that is not entirely true.

according to half the books for the HH series it would appear that for at least the beginning of the Great Crusade the Emperor did not think of himself as being a god.

you would have to completely ignore all the other background material and make assumptions based of a series of books that have not concluded yet to come up with the interpretation that you have. if the Emperor genuinely never thought of himself as a god at any stage, then it would make a large number of his decision illogical if not simply incomprehensible. although the timeline is confused, the GK were supposedly founded at the request of the Emperor, and clearly their strategies and equipment are based to a large extent on a faith in the Emperor as a god. it would seem more than a little ridiculous for the big E to have instigated such a group if he was dead against the very idea.

also there have been a large number of hints (rather lazy ones to my mind) in the HH books that the Emperor is divine, but simply doesn't realise it. you only need to read Flight of the Eisenstein to see that actually the Emperor exerts far more power than even he realises. apparently, this disconnect is going to become even more jarring in Tales of Heresy when the Emperor conflicts with a very devote priest who believes him to be a god.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

admiraldick said:


> that is not entirely true.
> 
> according to half the books for the HH series it would appear that for at least the beginning of the Great Crusade the Emperor did not think of himself as being a god.
> 
> ...


I bow to your superior fluff knowledge:grin:. I have only read the first 2 of the HH novels so my answer is not that of a full fluff perspective. Although I did not think of the grey knights at the time. good call:good:


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## xiawujing (Mar 2, 2009)

The Emperor is not a god? Exactly right. F*ck the Inquisition and all it currently stands for. And in fact the same to the current (41K) Imperium as a whole! REVERT TO THE 30K'S!!! STOP BEING SUCH FLIPPIN' IDJITS!!!


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

admiraldick said:


> that is not entirely true.
> 
> according to half the books for the HH series it would appear that for at least the beginning of the Great Crusade the Emperor did not think of himself as being a god.
> 
> ...


While what your saying is indeed true, it is only true to a point. You have to remember that much of the information available in 40k is based off of legand. The HH series of books is supposed to give us some actual information about what shaped the 40k universe as we know it.

What happened right after the HH is still open. For all we know the emp could just be powerful psyker who was put against his will into the gold throne by the leaders of the cult that whorships him on terra.

I also make the claim that the "chaos gods" are not gods just powerful beings that exsist within the warp. Similar to how the Emp is not a god.


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

Wusword77 said:


> While what your saying is indeed true, it is only true to a point. You have to remember that much of the information available in 40k is based off of legand.


i think you are trying to apply some 'real world' logic to a fictional setting. there is nothing about 40k that demands that its standards for historical veracity must equate to that of the modern western world. that is akin to assuming that decimal calculations are the only kind that could possibly exist.

its absolutely true that the vast majority of the 40k background is handed to us, the players, in mythic form, but the question is, what should we interpret that as meaning? many people assume that the authors intent is that there is some hidden, secret 40kiverse that is 'real' and behaves like the real world, but that we can only see it though a lens of mysticism and legend. hence they take almost all that they are told about the game universe and throw it out the window because it does not logically match up to our own.

then there is the alternative, that i personally ascribe to, and that is that the 40kiverse is not one like our own. it is literally one of legendary proportions. what happens in mythical story telling is the norm in 40k.

i see no reason to assume that just because the stories are not historical in their frame of reference that they are unreliable accounts of the way the world is.



Wusword77 said:


> The HH series of books is supposed to give us some actual information about what shaped the 40k universe as we know it.


i don't recall ever seeing GW or BL saying that that was the case. it seems that you are trying to view the HH books through the first interpretation of the background, and i don't personally think that that is helpful to the understanding of the individual pieces or to the greater picture they provide of the 40kiverse.



Wusword77 said:


> For all we know the emp could just be powerful psyker who was put against his will into the gold throne by the leaders of the cult that whorships him on terra.


agreed, he could be, but that would seem to piss in the face of Captain Garro and Euphrati Keeler, who's experiences i guess you would say were 'more historically accurate' because they were in a HH book rather than a codex.

at this moment in time (before the conclusion of the HH novels) either they are right or he is. it can't be both.



Wusword77 said:


> I also make the claim that the "chaos gods" are not gods just powerful beings that exist within the warp. Similar to how the Emp is not a god.


again, you are applying real-world equations to the 40kiverse and hoping to get some meaningful result. the world is purely fictional and so there is no reason why our logic need be the same.

as a Christian, i would say that any 'deity' that did not exist 'outside' of the universe nor is capable of creating it, is not a god. so i would understand Allah, Jehovah, Brahman as being gods, but not Thor and Zeus. and even then i can distinguish them further between gods that are real and gods that are not. this is a logic that i can apply because it has meaning in this world. however, such logic is meaningless in 40k.

what do we know of beings that 'pre-date' the 40kiverse? nothing at all. there is no indication in any background that i have read that such beings exist, have the capacity to exist or are recognised by any of the universes inhabitants. what is clear, and is stated over and over again, it that there are plenty of beings that exist within the universe and exert a supernatural influence over the inhabitants, and that these beings are referred to specifically and understood to be 'gods' in every sense that has meaning in the 40k background. these gods are not like any form of all powerful monothiestic god, they are very much the humanlike polytheistic gods that we would dismiss as being 'impossible'. yet they are assumed in the game to be perfectly possible, and even real.

Gork and Mork, the Eldar pantheon, the Chaos Gods, the Emperor and others are assumed to fit into this category, and you cannot apply real-world values to them to find out whether they really are 'gods' or not. the only beings which are called gods, but i would hesitate to understand them as such (think of it more as an epithet than a statement of fact) are the C'tan, because their background is so like Swiss cheese that no indication is given as to why they are called gods. they didn't appear to offer anything of value to the Necrontyr, nor should they even have been their allies. so i can only assume currently that the whole connection between the two races was purely an elaborate trick to enslave the Necrons on the part of the C'tan.


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