# Versus Eldrad Ulthran



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

*Versus: Week Five​*
He's been effectively dead for quite a few years, but that hasn't stopped him from leading just about every Eldar army since the new Codex came out.

He has every power imaginable, can use them three at a time (or even multiple times per power), he can shrug off perils of the warp, make using your own powers infinitely harder...oh, and he can move half his army around after deployment. His 3+ save is invulnerable, and he has a choice of weapons to whoop your ass with (Either a power-staff that wounds on a 2+, or a Witchblade to use on vehicles to triple his Strength)

So...how do you deal with this deadly dead man?


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Well, he's got very few attacks in melee, so just like farseers or other shooty independent characters, he can be meleed to death. Getting to melee can be highly difficult through the rest of his enhanced army. He can also be instakilled fairly easily with his T4, though if he fortunes himself he'll be rerolling a 3+ invuln which equates to about a 87% chance to save.

The really dangerous thing about him IMO is the redeployment thing. If the eldar player uses few units, and deploys haf his army on each side of the field, he can usually redeploy everything to one side and then hit half your army with all of his. Completely screws with slow horde armies and frequently messes up shooting. Works even better when there's a big chunk of big terrain the the middle of the map.


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## Tau Chaotix (Mar 1, 2008)

i have no idea, but im sure a few shots from railheads will sort him out 

-Olek.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Tau Chaotix said:


> i have no idea, but im sure a few shots from railheads will sort him out
> 
> -Olek.


Come on, none of that 
Every damned thread it's "Tau: Shoot it with railguns"
'Sides, what with being an IC, actually shooting him at all is going to be all but impossible. That's one reason why I went with a character...shooting him to death usually isn't an option. 

Myself, I would fight fire with fire. I'll take their super-psyker down with my own super-psyker. Mephiston has an LD 10 hood to cock-block any attempt he makes at using his numerous fancy powers, meanwhile if you're daring, he's got a better chance of surviving those bloody runes of anyone. T5 and FNP means perils of the warp are annoying but not as threatening as they are for anyone else. Meanwhile, except maybe his wings, he doesn't need a lot of psychic tests to be insanely lethal and effective. Even without using his Force Weapon, he's got some wicked combat capability...granted, that 3+ invul save is a pain in the ass, but chances are Mephy can dish out the volume of attacks needed to cut him down


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

As Culler said, he is absolutely garbage in melee, against anything. He has a single attack (sure it's a nifty attack) and only does good supporting other troops. I can't think of a single unit in the game (even grots) that couldn't mop him up in melee combat. 

As always, how to get there...

Or do you need to?

This guy supports other units, so most of the time I just end up ignoring him until the oppertunity arrives. He's really not a threat on his own whatsoever. And most of his powers augment units in certain ways; shooting, saves, etc. I end up trying to combat his powers in the opposite ways; CC the giuded shooters, ignore the fortuned squad for a round, etc. 

But one thing I learned the hard way, Psychic Powers against Eldar, especially Eldrad, are pointless. Don't rely on them; even if you get the awsome Gift of Chaos off on him, it's better to load up on Anti-Psyker gear. And since you have BA, you have more than enough at your disposal to match him.


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## FarseerNo3 (Mar 7, 2008)

how about a asassin


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

How about multiple asassins


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

A Callidus could take him out of scoring pretty easily and have a good shot at killing him, but all the other assassins would have to deal with the rest of the army before they got to him. A culexus could wreak havoc if it got close, but if you don't know what army your opponent is taking a culexus is not really going to be viable.


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## Absolute035 (Jan 13, 2008)

Actually his rerollable 3+ invulnerable save will save 89% of the time. Obviously that means shooting railguns at him is about the dumbest thing you could do, aside from not being able to target him as an IC... if he's in a squad you'd just be killing guardians or whatever.

I've made plans that use Eldrad or equivalent farseer in a squad of Guardians with conceal warlock, and they would be fortuned. It's a 5+ rerollable cover save for the whole squad, saves 55% of the time. I'd beg my enemy to waste railgun shots on that.

Eldrad basically is garbage in melee but don't forget he has a pistol so he can charge with 3 witchblade attacks, or chuck the spear at vehicles for 9 strength. 

Eldrad is a strong support guy, taking him out isn't very essential because he can't get anywhere fast. Unlike the other farseers, he doesn't have fleet, and putting him in a transport is a waste, so he'll always be footslogging it. And his powers have very limited range, guide and fortune are 6" so his mobility is low. There's better things to kill before you attack the farseer-supported heart of the Eldar army. But I can see how you would be annoyed at him if you usually rely on a lot of psychic powers. 

Assassins... either way you attack, Eldrad should have his 3++ rerollable... maybe Vindicaire with the rounds that ignore invulnerable saves? But that's only 1 wound. What can i say, eldar are tricky.


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## pyroanarchist (Feb 29, 2008)

Eldrad is a pain, but I don't think he's worth targeting. I mean, yeah, I'll take a pot shot at him now and then when thats the squad that is easy to shoot at, but for the most part I ignore him and wait. Fight everything else and when the opportunity arises assault him. If that opportunity never arises don't worry about him. He does have a big effect on a game, but he seems to not be worth wasting a lot of firepower on. If I have a vindicator or defiler sitting back and doing nothing for a round I'll take a shot and that can have a good effect if the dice gods look favourably upon you, if not, oh well.


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## Frostbite (Oct 17, 2007)

If fighting Eldrad, I'd take him on like any Space Marine Character. Masses of pulse fire (Or bolters, or what have you) means he has to fail some of his saves (89% means that for ten wounds, he fails one save). I'd also chuck a whole bunch of Missile Pods at him (Or Autocannons, etc), hell, I could swamp him with Kroot. There are many ways of dealing with Inv saves, and massed fire tends to do it pretty well.


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

To be honest, I would just try an avoid him as best I could, Tau are probably the most mobile army out there, and I'd be more worried about the Harlequins dancing near my Firewarriors. Being an IC, shooting him with everything you've got isn't always an option, and in the end you'd probably be better off pointing those guns at something else. If I screwed up and he did somehow manage to get too close, well, I'd send my Kroot with Kroot Hounds at him, same thing I do with anything that gets a little closer than I like.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

So if you decide not to take him out, how do you cope with his abilities?


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

FarseerNo3 said:


> how about a asassin


A vindicare assassin can target him even if he's attached to a squad can he not? If that is possible, I still see the point about not shooting at him, just not worth it. But in the case of the assassin, he is there for this kind of stuff.

About putting him down.
1. Faith points. The sisters can negate any psych power on a 5+ if they use the faith point correct?
2. Assualt. Depending on what squad he is attached to, it could be fairly easy to assualt him. I used to through him with my DA in a Waveserpent. It was very effective for a few games. One game, the squad was assualted by a horde of guants because I moved them up too far. Eldrad's entire squad was destroyed. Of course that was against nids and I did not play them very well.

Power wise, I can't think of a whole lot that will deal with him. Most of his powers are friendly (fortune, guide) and the other three have a limited range (doom-24, Eldritch storm-18, Mind War-18 and LoS). I would try to stay out of his way and out of his range the best I could. Send Vehicles for him if anything as he cannon do as much against them, besides eldritch storm.

-Eldrad's favorite thing to read is the Emperor's mind, such a simple and amusing thing it is.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

Pull out and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Haha sorry I had to say that.

Seriously, witch hunters are BUILT for fighting psykers, so if you are playing imperials you may want to take some WH allies. Take an inquisitor lord or an inquisitor. He'll need hexagrammic wards so that psychic tests are at -1. Psi-tracker so you get re-rolls, Power stake wounds on 2+ vs psykers, psychic hood is a must. Psycannon bolts will negate that invul save. Henchmen will be dependant on whether you want to go assault or shooting.


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## azalin_r3x (Feb 25, 2008)

doesn't he have 2 attacks since he carries a pistol too?

and is his spear a singing one? (it wounds on a 2+ as singing do, but it doesn't mention anywhere it is one)

also i would say he is not totally dead . as long as few of his waystones have still life on them, there is still hope for his spirit (right? )

as for how to deal with him, i guess assassins are your best bet.

psychic hoods though make his life difficult


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## Silb (Jan 28, 2008)

azalin_r3x said:


> doesn't he have 2 attacks since he carries a pistol too?
> 
> and is his spear a singing one?


Singing spears are two-handed weapons, so if he has a singing spear then he doesn't get the extra attack for having two weapons.


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## azalin_r3x (Feb 25, 2008)

Silb said:


> Singing spears are two-handed weapons, so if he has a singing spear then he doesn't get the extra attack for having two weapons.


most of the heroes wield two handed weapons in one hand...


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## Silb (Jan 28, 2008)

azalin_r3x said:


> most of the heroes wield two handed weapons in one hand...


It doesn't matter if it's modelled to look like it is in one hand, it is still too large and heavy to be used more than once or in a combination with a one-handed weapon.


Actually, forget the whole thing I just said, I just checked the codex and it says he has a witchblade, a pistol, AND a big staff thing. So I think he can either use his staff (for one powerful attack) or the pistol and the witchblade (for two slightly less-powerful attacks)..


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## chrisman 007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Ignore him and wipe out everything else?


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

> Pull out and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure


Awesome quote. Repped



> To be honest, I would just try an avoid him as best I could


TBH, Siege has the right idea. If something isn't easily taken out, its not really worth the effort. You're much better focussing your efforts on solid VP's you can take easily. Theres only so much one model can do, even one like eldrad. As with most things, just saddle up the troops, and wipe out the rest of their army.


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## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

load a battle wagon, with old zogworth,,,,and "squig" him , lol


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Silb said:


> Actually, forget the whole thing I just said, I just checked the codex and it says he has a witchblade, a pistol, AND a big staff thing. So I think he can either use his staff (for one powerful attack) or the pistol and the witchblade (for two slightly less-powerful attacks)..


Actually, common sense aside, nothing in the rules says that his staff is a two-handed weapon, so likely he'll get two attacks that wound on 2+ and ignore armor (or two that wound on 2+, *don't* ignore armor, but triple his Strength vs vehicles)

Either way, it's still not a lot, even at his high initiative.

how would you counter/deal with his most annoying precognition power? Use a Callidus assassin to move one of his units back? Use your faster units to move in response to his redeploy once the game gets going? Spread your units out so he doesn't have an obvious choice for where to mass up?


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Seems like the best counter to eldrad is an anti-eldrad army, but thats going to far for a single purpose.


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

> Seems like the best counter to eldrad is an anti-eldrad army, but thats going to far for a single purpose


Exactly, couldn't have put it better myself.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

Witch Hunters aren't an anti-Eldrad army. They are an anti-psyker army. They also have access to assassins. Eldar have more access to psyker units than most other armies. Like I said, take WH allies. All you need to do is give up 1 HQ or elite slot to get the inquisitor and his retinue and you should be able to take out Eldrad's unit no problem. You could be playing any SM or IG army with WH allies. Black Templars would fit the idea the best though.


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## Absolute035 (Jan 13, 2008)

Galahad said:


> Actually, common sense aside, nothing in the rules says that his staff is a two-handed weapon, so likely he'll get two attacks that wound on 2+ and ignore armor (or two that wound on 2+, *don't* ignore armor, but triple his Strength vs vehicles)
> 
> Either way, it's still not a lot, even at his high initiative.
> 
> how would you counter/deal with his most annoying precognition power? Use a Callidus assassin to move one of his units back? Use your faster units to move in response to his redeploy once the game gets going? Spread your units out so he doesn't have an obvious choice for where to mass up?


I just noticed that wording, i had always assumed the Staff of Ulthamar was a singing spear (two handed) but it doesn't say that. Well charging in with 3 attacks that wound on 2+ and ignore armor isn't bad for a psyker his age .


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Absolute035 said:


> Assassins... either way you attack, Eldrad should have his 3++ rerollable... maybe Vindicaire with the rounds that ignore invulnerable saves? But that's only 1 wound. What can i say, eldar are tricky.


Callidus Assassin ignores invuln saves and armor saves in melee (c'tan phase sword). She's only charging in with 4 attacks and has a pretty good chance of getting another 3 the next turn but will likely die after that to an eldar counterassault. These 7 attacks are not likely to kill Eldrad, but they should hurt him badly, and if she can get another round or two in of cc she can finish the job.


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## pyroanarchist (Feb 29, 2008)

Culler said:


> Callidus Assassin ignores invuln saves and armor saves in melee (c'tan phase sword). She's only charging in with 4 attacks and has a pretty good chance of getting another 3 the next turn but will likely die after that to an eldar counterassault. These 7 attacks are not likely to kill Eldrad, but they should hurt him badly, and if she can get another round or two in of cc she can finish the job.


He usually has a bodyguard around him though. They would absorb any wounds she inflicted and he would probably still be standing in perfect health.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

About Eldrads attacks...
He has a base attack of one, he gets +1 attack for CCW (Staff/Pistol, Witchblade/pistol)

The Staff of Ulthamar is not a singing spear, and it doesnt say that it is a two handed weapon. The staff allows Eldrad to use a 3rd power and it can a power he has previously used. In combat, It allows Eldrad to wound on a 2+ and it ignores armour saves. On the charge he has a total of 3 attacks. Not too shaby:good:. of course he isnt a CC beast, but he can still be a little menace especially if he has a unit of warlocks with him. Mass 2+ wounds haha!


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## reakon (Nov 16, 2007)

I have played against him once and he was no problem. He was teamed up with a squad of wraithguard so my necron firepower was useless. I concentrated on everything else until he got with 18 inches, then I sent in my scarabs to take care of the wriathguard and my destroyer lord with a warscythe to sort out Eldrad. I think it took 2 rounds of assault to kill him with a third round to finish off the wraithguard.

Because I left him for a while I was able to take out his harlequins, falcon, 2 dire avenger squads and his wraithlord before hand through massed firepower.


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

Well Galahad, though there is a Eldar player in my regular circle of gamers, I haven't had the pleasure of taking on Eldrad, and I'm not exactly certain what his special abilities are. The redeployment thing sounds like it could cause a lot of problems, but there is not much I can do about that other than hope my units can respond fast enough before being hit too hard. 

Tau don't have many options for dealing with this kind of thing, we don't play around with magic and psykers. I'm not the kind of gamer to throw my entire game plan to hell because Eldrad the godfairy or whatever he is is pulling magic tricks out of his arse.

Having said that, if somebody has any good suggestions for Tau players when facing Eldrad (other than shoot him until you get lucky), I'd really like to hear them.


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

I suppose that with a bit of luck you could get Kroot in close combat with him, he has got pathetically few attacks. However this could easily be ruined by him hiding back, away from possible infiltration places, or having a strong CC squad with him.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Considering his redeploy takes place after infiltrators are set up, getting kroot near him is unlikely in the extreme. Best chance might be deep-striking some battlesuits or gun drone swarms into his core and wreaking some S5 AP5 havoc on whoever he's attached to/shielded by.


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

Ah, assumed the redeploy happened before infiltrators, with the rules where you can place infiltrators. So does that mean the Eldar player could position troops to get a first turn assault on infiltrators? However gun drones are cheap deep strikes, so that might work.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

his redeploy (d3+1 units) takes place after both players have deployed, which means after infiltrators are set.

And yes, so long as they are still within their DZ he may deploy, say, Harlies or Banshees right up next to your infiltrators and assault the fuck out of them.

He could also deploy closer to other enemy units than the normal pushback for the mission allows.


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## Casmiricus (Mar 6, 2008)

Does Eldrad have a normal armor save, or only invulnerable?


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

pyroanarchist said:


> He usually has a bodyguard around him though. They would absorb any wounds she inflicted and he would probably still be standing in perfect health.


He's an independent character and thus can always be targeted separately in melee. Even if he's joined to a squad of 10 other guys, as long as you're in base to base with eldrad you can choose to target only eldrad (and can't actually attack the other unit even if you wanted to if you're only in base contact with eldrad).


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## GhostBear (Feb 17, 2008)

Eldrad can be hard to kill, a 3++ rerollable save can be hard for anyone to combat. If he's following up another force and using Fortune on it as well it can be really tricky to get to him. Anti Psykers can be annoying, but he's also a potent anti Psyker as well. Try to roll a Psyker test with 3 dice and tell me I'm wrong. Psychic Hoods have been my bane when using any Psykers, Eldrad included, mainly I seem to roll terribly. I was also told that all my opponent had to do was meet or beat my roll on the Hood dice off. I checked and that's not right.

Ways I've seen to beat Eldrad:

Eldar: Your fast and have access to a lot of the same stuff your opponent does. Isolate Eldrad or outmaneuver your opponent if you can. Using your own Eldrad is also an option.

Marines: Psychic Hoods, mass fire. Durability. You have them all available, use them. Special characters can also be your friend. 

Tau: You have some good range on your weapons and some nice transports for your troops. Your close combat attacks aren't the best. I recommend massed fire into the units Eldrad didn't Fortune, whittling away at his forces. If you have a unit to spare and a good chance, lock Eldrad in close combat, even if you only manage it for a turn, that's a turn where he won't get to use his powers.

Necrons: C'Tan can kill him in one round of combat. Getting one there is the hard part. Your army is fairly resilient and will probably last a while against the Eldar, so march in and blast away. Like the Tau I recommend focusing on the non Fortuned units each turn. If you have the list for it, you could always drop a Monolith on Eldrad's head and bring some Warriors or a Necron Lord in for fun, I hear Warscythes are nasty.

Orks: I'm not entirely familiar with the Orks just yet. I figure a Weirdboy may get lucky. Alternatively you have one of the best CC armies in the game. Lock Eldrad down and spend the rest of the game killing his less supported army. A warboss on a bike could probably hurt him somethin' fierce too.

Tyranids: One unit of Hormagaunts is your friend. 32 Hormagaunts could probably kill Eldrad for you pretty easily. Your problems lie in getting to him. Using terrain and large numbers of other troops to keep his army busy is one way. A Flying Tyrant might work too. I wouldn't bother with Shadow in the Warp as his gear will just mean he rolls 2 dice and has no fear of Perils, while you on the other hand will roll 3 dice and still have to worry about perils for your own Psy powers.

Imperial Guard: Assassins, large blasty templates, flashlights. All of those might work. Eldar units have a low toughness making your flashlights a bit more effecive against them. So use this to keep his units harried. Keep your ace in the hole inconspicuous and hit him hard and fast when he least expects it. Even if the dice don't work in your favor you'll make him rell and worry about something for a turn or two.

Chaos Space Marines: Characters, big ugly units. Squads of killer demons? Not sure.

Dark Eldar: I haven't faced these guys or even really read too much about them. Someone else have advice?

General: His Divination can be annoying to opponents. You could spread out your army to counter it a bit if that's what you want to do. If you have good range on your shooters then you could deploy them to cover your squads and any gaps in the army. My best recommendation is to deploy your army like a fence in Chess. Each unit covering another unit, so no matter how he redeploys your army is hard to exploit. Faster vehicles deploying near the center can move to one side or the other quickly to pressure, don't ;eave them in the open though. A center deployment is also a good option, no matter where your opponent moves his troops too you should be closer then if you had deployed to one side or the other. If your a shooty army and have good range you could always try to hide in a corner, which may mean a large portion of his force is deployed near you. The main thing to remember is that he can only redeploy 4 units maximum and that many only on a good die roll. So when setting up keep in mind which units may be moved and plan the rest of your deployment accordingly. You might even deploy in such a way to force him to move units he wouldn't have otherwise.

Close Combat: Eldrad's power comes from supporting others. Any army that can lock him in close combat, even if it's for a turn or two has done him harm whether they wound him or not, kill him or not.

Range: Being an IC he can be hard to shoot sometimes. If he's in a unit, massed fire could work. If he's not you can't really shoot him if he's in Support range. If your army is good at shooting, blast away at his troops, target non fortuned units first if you can. Use good AP weapons on the fortuned units. Fortune is great but has no effect if they can't roll in the first place. Target Vehicles! Vehicles get few benefits from Eldrad directly, Fortune is worthless for them. Of course with Fast Skimmers equipped with holo-fields and spirit stones they may be harder to take down then a fortuned unit.

How you choose to deal with Eldrad may be taken out of your hands due to how your army is built. If he shows up on the board opposing you, just try not to be too surprised and you'll get through the battle alright.

Good luck and happy hunting!


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Siege said:


> Eldrad the godfairy


Nice one!!!


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

Just to add to Ghostbears, I've fought Dark Eldar twice and a well placed web-way portal could leave him dead by the end, though I don't know enough to say if placing a portal would be very easy, especially as he can deploy away from the model who I believe has to carry it.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

GhostBear said:


> Close Combat: Eldrad's power comes from supporting others. Any army that can lock him in close combat, even if it's for a turn or two has done him harm whether they wound him or not, kill him or not.


By that do you mean that Eldrad can no longer continue to support the other squads? If so, he still gets fortune/guide/doom at the start of the Eldar player's turn (unless in a transport...). So assualts doesnt effect those powers. So he can have 1 wound left, assualted by 20 guants and still be fortuning and dooming your arse!


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## GhostBear (Feb 17, 2008)

@ Desolate: Actually, psychic powers follow the rules for shooting whether they are used in the shooting phase or not; Page 52 of the rulebook. 
On page 28 of the 4th edition Eldar codex it clearly states that unless otherwise noted the Farseer powers follow the rules for Psychic powers except the Farseer doesn't need to have Line of Sight (LOS). Since Fortune and Doom don't clearly state they may be used in an Assault they follow the rules for shooting, which is something you can't do when locked in an assault.

@thomas: For those of us, like myself who are unfamiliar with Webway portals. How would a proper placement of one affect Eldrad? And what do you mean by proper placement?

Merged posts...remember we have an Edit button for a reason, folks.


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

Basically Dark Eldar units put in reserve can come out of a Web Way Portal, that is placed by a HQ whose name begins with 'h' (note it's a specific one, you can't just name your character Horance and give him a web way portal), and they can assault the turn they arrive, so proper placement is in assault range. Any DE players who can say more?


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

GhostBear said:


> On page 28 of the 4th edition Eldar codex it clearly states that unless otherwise noted the Farseer powers follow the rules for Psychic powers except the Farseer doesn't need to have Line of Sight (LOS). Since Fortune and Doom don't clearly state they may be used in an Assault they follow the rules for shooting, which is something you can't do when locked in an assault.


The rule book says that a psycher's powers are used how the codex allows. In the eldar case it says all of the above ^. It does clearly state that all the powers are used as described in the 40k rule book. The 40k Rule book just tells you to refer to the specific army (codex) rules for using psych powers. In the codex: unless otherwise noted, the powers are used at the START of the Eldar turn and do not require line of sight to target. Fortune/Guide/Doom never say they are used in the shooting whereas Mind War and Eldritch Storm clearly say "in the shooting phase". Also, Mind War says that it requires line of sight even though the main rule is that none of the powers need LoS. This is why eldrad cannot jump out of a transport and use Fortune/Guide/Doom, because he just finished his movement when he jumped out, thus NOT the start of the Eldar turn. He may not use the powers when inside the transport because of the transport rule. You may however use your Fortune/Guide/Doom then embark into a transport because you use them before the movement phase. Your right, it does not say that Fortune and Doom can take place durring the assualt, this is because they don't. They take place at the start of the turn (before movement/shooting/assualt). Nothing about the assualt phase prohibits the use of powers that are used at the START of the turn.

The codex Clearly says that , unless otherwise noted, the powers work as described in the Psychic Powers section of the 40k rulebook. It also says they are used at the start of the Eldar turn. OH LOOK, it has just been otherwise noted. Just as Eldritch Storm and Mind War have been otherwise noted to take place in the shooting phase. Ive asked for many people's opinion on this, not saying that its 100%, but it is very clear when looking at both the rulebook and the codex. No one has dissagreed about it where I play. They may not like the Eldar "cheese" but they still do not dissagree.


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## foulacy (Nov 24, 2007)

I like to plan on taking IC's down when i see how the game is going, how much of a threat they are e.t.c


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Another bad thing about facing Eldrad is that IC withing 18 inches are in a world of hurt with mindwar, so they aren't very effective against him. However if he was tied into a small assualt until a beastly IC got to him...


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## GhostBear (Feb 17, 2008)

What is the most difficult thing to face about Eldrad?


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

I guess its different depending on who your facing him with... But, I think the biggest thing to fear is his fortune and guiding. There are 2 big ways to take complete advantage of him, and both are pretty nasty.
1. Eldrad with an Avatar foot slogging behind 2 wraithlord and 2 large guardian squads. A Fearless anvil and half of them can re-role saves or re-role shots. Once it gets in closer, Eldrad has less units to cast friendly powers on, so you get doomed/mindwared/fortuned just before a charge with an avatar...
2. Eldrad and a farseer aid 3 squads of 3 war walkers. 2 squads are fully decked with scatter lasers and the other with the same or EML. Stick 2 units of walkers next to eldrad and one near the other farseer and you have 24 re-role S6 shots from each squad. Sure the War Walkers are vulnerable, but that will destroy any squad it shoots at... just about...I have never seen a large Walker army played, but I really want to try it sometime. Its almost like it was designed for nids too. You get those 3 squads of walkers to destroy the guants quick, then you have 3-4 squads of pathfinders to pick off the MCs. Maybe its just me, but that sounds nasty. 

So, the biggest thing to fear is his ability to enhance and protect everything around him.

Back to how to beat his powers...
Don't the nids have a speacial rule where you have to role off to see if a power is used? something that has to do with the Hive mind or something?

Sisters still have a very good advantage with their faith points. 
"HAHA!!! My warlocks and Eldrad can re-role any saves!" -Eldar player taunts

Sisters player uses a faithpoint, goes off, roles a 5 to stop the power. "Um... no, no you don't" -Sisters player says with pride


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

SOB also have access to cheap hoods via Inquisitors


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## GhostBear (Feb 17, 2008)

Desolatemm said:


> The rule book says that a psycher's powers are used how the codex allows. In the eldar case it says all of the above ^. It does clearly state that all the powers are used as described in the 40k rule book. The 40k Rule book just tells you to refer to the specific army (codex) rules for using psych powers. In the codex: unless otherwise noted, the powers are used at the START of the Eldar turn and do not require line of sight to target. Fortune/Guide/Doom never say they are used in the shooting whereas Mind War and Eldritch Storm clearly say "in the shooting phase". Also, Mind War says that it requires line of sight even though the main rule is that none of the powers need LoS. This is why eldrad cannot jump out of a transport and use Fortune/Guide/Doom, because he just finished his movement when he jumped out, thus NOT the start of the Eldar turn. He may not use the powers when inside the transport because of the transport rule. You may however use your Fortune/Guide/Doom then embark into a transport because you use them before the movement phase. Your right, it does not say that Fortune and Doom can take place durring the assualt, this is because they don't. They take place at the start of the turn (before movement/shooting/assualt). Nothing about the assualt phase prohibits the use of powers that are used at the START of the turn.
> 
> The codex Clearly says that , unless otherwise noted, the powers work as described in the Psychic Powers section of the 40k rulebook. It also says they are used at the start of the Eldar turn. OH LOOK, it has just been otherwise noted. Just as Eldritch Storm and Mind War have been otherwise noted to take place in the shooting phase. Ive asked for many people's opinion on this, not saying that its 100%, but it is very clear when looking at both the rulebook and the codex. No one has dissagreed about it where I play. They may not like the Eldar "cheese" but they still do not dissagree.


Ambiguous rules strike again. I went through the rulebook pretty thoroughly when I was first researching Psychic powers to try and see how they worked. One of the things I really wanted to know was whether I could use Psychic powers while locked in close combat.

So during my research I read the Psychic Rules Page 56. The last paragraph of which stated Psy powers are subject to the usual shooting rules. I then read the Eldar codex and through the Farseer powers. The Eldar codex said they followed the normal rules for Psychic powers and were used at the beginning of the turn and didn't need Line of Sight.

Now, by this point I had a few things in mind: While I didn't need Line of Sight and used the powers at the beginning of the turn, every other rule for shooting was followed, and going by the examples they give in the Psychic powers section would mean I still had to direct all my powers at one target, etc. Another thing was melee, what if I'm locked in close combat? So I read about shooting while locked in close combat which led me to page 44 of the rulebook under the heading "Shooting into and out of close combat" Which states that models can't shoot into and out of close combat... I didn't really pay attention to the "..in the shooting phase" part.

I like the idea of being able to use Psychic powers while locked in close combat if I can, the idea of it never made sense to me though. Just because the Assault phase is the last phase of your turn doesn't mean your guys and gals and alien creatures paused in their fighting to wait for everyone else to finish moving and shooting. I just imagined it as always going on and you only worried about what happened while everyone was moving and shooting, in it's own time.

Using the conditional "...in the shooting phase" seems like abusing the intent of the rule by pointing out the technical wording of it. Who doesn't shoot in the Shooting phase? They say that the attacks from pistols and such are taken into account through the results of close combat (Another thing that never made sense to me, especially when my Fusion Pistol is Strength 8 and my Eldar Harlequin is Strength 3 or 4) and that your unit is completely taken up in the swirl of combat.

Anyway, it doesn't quite make sense to me but if you can use Psychic powers while locked in close combat, I guess that's okay. I've always played it as that I couldn't.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

If it comes down to a situation that would result in a dispute, I would give-up my opinion just because it is a little controversial (and because its really really cheap :wink. I actually believed the same the first game I used Eldrad. It was my opponent that pointed the rules out to me and explained that I could still use my powers (didn't help me much against the onslaught of guants anyway). Fluff wise, you can justify it because Eldrad is the god psycher of a godly psychic army. I know this is a tactica about how to nul. Eldrad, but can someone else with a little more experience with the rule give us their holy thoughts and opinion about using Fortune/Guide/Doom while locked in assualt?


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

Psychic Powers follow the normal rules of shooting unless otherwise noted. The Eldar codex notes they are used in the begining of the Players turn (unless otherwise stated) and do not require line of sight. 

The normal shooting rules do not allow anyone to shoot into or out of close combat while engaged, as they are too busy fighting for their lives. 

It seems fairly clear to me, Eldrad's power obey the rules for shooting, that state you cannot shoot while locked in combat. However, this breaks a great deal of other psychic powers according to RAW. (Gift of Chaos comes to mind) Not to mention the applications toward Force Weapons; while not neccessarily a power in itself, the test required uses your power for the turn. 

Might I suggest creating this thread in the rules forum for discussion? No need to hijack this one.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Will do k:, thanks for the help!

Moved the power rules discussion to:
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=84436#post84436


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## GhostBear (Feb 17, 2008)

Outside of Eldrad's Powers his 3+ invulnerable save is one of his saving graces. I think only the Dark Eldar get a better invulnerable save? and it's lost if they ever fail it right? Anyone better?


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Well, Eldrad has a very good same all the time which is nice, and his T4 makes it harder for him to be insta deathed. On the other hand, a Biker or Jet Biker can get the same save if they turbo boost. The sisters can make an entire squad of 3+ invulnerable with faith points... I can't think of a whole lot that get better...


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

There's the debate of turbo-boosting tzeentch bikers having a 2+ invul, but that's a matter for another thread. A Space Marine character with artificer armor and a bike can have a 2+ invul if he boosts...but not something that's on all the time.

Generally 4+ is the gold standard for constant invul saves. Doesn't usually get any better than that, especially with Fortune. It certainly makes Eldrad a bitch to kill, weedy little space elf or not.


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## GhostBear (Feb 17, 2008)

I suppose his 3 wounds, Ghosthelm and T4 are nice against the occasional Perils of the Warp too. Since unlike most of his Farseer brethren he doesn't insta die to Perils if his Ghosthelm cracks


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

I will repeat what I said earlier. Pull out and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Give the whiny little space elf his dolly back. Big baby.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Steel Rain said:


> Pull out and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.


I can see it now...
They came out of nowhere... Khaine and his followers slaughter an entire army of Guardsmen. It was as if they had the divination of the gods to strike with such surgical precision. Their commander escapes to nuke the planet out of harms way. Mostly out of fear because he knows not that it will even be effective. Mean while back on the planet, Eldrad looks into the sky without pity or remorse for what was to come. Brilliant explosions filled the atmosphere and all was quiet. The commander returned to the surface of the planet a few weeks later. Upon the spot where the great mascre took place, there stood a single staff. It was the Fearsome weapon of the great farseer Eldrad, the staff of Ulthamar. The commander reached out to claim it, when he tripped on a ghosthelm and fell onto the staff piercing through his thick armour. The last words uttered by the commander were "...Damn......Divination...."

Sorry, Bored...


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Witch Hunter players could take that funky Orbital Strike that targets psykers and removes their powers. That's one way to make sure that Eldrad doesn't get to cause too much damage.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Is this obital strike a psychic power of its own?


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

No. It's a Psyk-out warhead. Orbital Strikes are a heavy support choice. I would not recommend an orbital strike when WH/DH have much better options for heavies. 9 Penitant Engines comes to mind...


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

Guess what!? My regular gaming opponent who plays Eldar saw this thread and next time our forces meet he assures me Eldrad will be there. 

Hopefully after a few battles I will be back with some advice on exactly how to deal with this guy effectively. FOR THE GREATER GOOD!!!


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## KharnTheBetrayer86 (Feb 26, 2008)

Necrons have a few useful weapons against him. One of the weapons ignores armour amd invun saves. Pariahs have it.
Plenty of items that force perils of the warp checks, and failing that a decent sized squad of any infantry with rapid fire. His toughness is low and while 3+ invun save with rerolls is outstanding, its not a certainty. Heck, law of averages state that if a full squad of imperial guardsmen shoot at him at short range, he will find it difficult not to be overcome by sheer number of shots.


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## GoRy (Apr 1, 2008)

I dare say it's the same as taking out every dangerous character if your opponent is silly enough to play him as an independant character. Swamp him with firepower (Ar wit da boyz if yur a wee bit orky). I haven't seen the new lists though, so what sort of bodyguard is he allowed? I haven't spotted anyone mentioning so sorry if someones already posted it, it's just that any valid strategy for defeating him is going to have to include a valid way of taking out any bodyguard he has with him at the time, which makes it much tricker. I would dare say a decent Space Marine command squad with a tactical squad thrown in can take down most things if utilised correctly, but his close-combat prowess could make things much more difficult than usual.


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## azalin_r3x (Feb 25, 2008)

a simple solution to everything ofcourse can be mass shooting...
he can get warlocks (3-10), you can also place him inside any unit you want.
but even if he is all alone, he is IC, meaning you can't hit him, if there is another unit closer to you and 6 inches close to him...

well, since i play him time to time.. i find anoying, psychic hoods, and calidus assassin is a problem. ofcourse you can still assault him so he can't cast 3 spells per round and no shooty-ones


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