# Which Chaos hero is the greatest threat to the Imperium?



## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

Not including Abbadon because he is the obvious choice. Aside from him, which Chaos Lord from the codex do you think is the greatest threat to the Imperium, and why?

My bet is on Typhus. The Imperium is filled with billions of weak humans just waiting to be infected by a zombie plague. This might not be the biggest threat out there, but it seems like it's the one thats most likely to succeed.


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## Tzeen Qhayshek (May 4, 2010)

The problem with the Zombie Plague is that with the proper quarantine, it can burn out.

I would would say Cypher, but since he isn't on the list, definitely Blackheart. He is doing some nasty damage to shipping and commerce as well as destroy a Space Marine Chapter or two.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Cypher isn't that big of a threat, IMO. Why would you consider him? Not that there is anything wrong with it, I would just like to know. 

Maybe Ahrimon or Typhus.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Typhus, him and his playfully little illness could affect an entire sector of space in no time at all and result in immense casualties from the illness, his followers and the imperium cleaning up. 

everyone else can't really cause destruction on quite that scale with as little effort.

don't really see why Cypher would be on the list anyway, he isn't a chaos lord, and his goals are nowhere near any of the above, and his ultimate goal might not be with malicious intent at all.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Im torn between Ahriman the Exile and Fabius Bile personally.

Fabius Bile because if his claim to have unlocked the secrets of the Emperor's work in the creation of the Primarchs/Astartes is true then this alone is a massive threat to the Imperium. He also supplies the Traitor Legions with fresh troops and Astartes thereby making him a massive indirect threat to Imperial interests. As well as that he commands hordes and armies of the 'New Man' spread throughout the Galaxy, who at a command can easily usurp power of planets and systems. The codex also supports me in Fabius' claim: "...it is no suprise that Fabius Bile is considered one of the direst threats the Imperium currently faces." (Page 52).

As for Ahriman, well taking into account his goal of attaining the knowledge of the Black Library (which he came extremley close to achieving during the 13th Black Crusade), which if he achieved he would become nigh-on unstoppable. As well as him being one of the most potent active Chaos Sorcerers.

As for why I didn't consider the rest:

Huron Blackheart is essentially just a powerful pirate lord whose influence only extends to the areas immediatly surrounding the Maelstrom, he offers no dire threat to the Imperium as a whole.

As for Typhus, Lucius and Kharn, well they are all extremley capable and powerful individuals but ultimately they have and never will be in a position where they can single-handedly pose a gargantuan threat to the Imperium as a whole.


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## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

I think Fabius Blie because reading Black Tide he claims to have found a way to clone the Emperor, if he clones someone as powerfull as the big E the Imperium is fucked.


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## Khargoth (Aug 5, 2010)

Captain Stillios said:


> I think Fabius Blie because reading Black Tide he claims to have found a way to clone the Emperor, if he clones someone as powerfull as the big E the Imperium is fucked.


It's one thing to clone the Emperor, another alltogether to manage to corrupt the clone into being on the side of Chaos, otherwise Bile would have done it by now.

Personally I think Typhus, even if his Zombie plague is quarantined he has plenty of other tricks up his sleeve. He was by far and away the most effective Chaos Lord during the 13th Black Crusade, reducing a whole chain of agri-worlds to pestilent slime, starving untold systems.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

For me it was a tossup between Fabius and Ahriman. I thought Fabius for a while because of the fact that he could potentially make an evil emperor clone but in the end voted for Ahriman because supposedly there are rumours that if he got access to the Black Library he could transform himself into a new chaos god. Now an evil emperor is bad and would definitely do a lot of damage, but he would still only be one man (and we know that the original emperor was far from infallible). Having another chaos god to contend with, that is something on a whole other level.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Khargoth said:


> It's one thing to clone the Emperor, another alltogether to manage to corrupt the clone into being on the side of Chaos, otherwise Bile would have done it by now.


That wouldn't be a problem at all. The cloned Emperor (if such a thing is even possible) would likely be created and corrupted with Chaos energy from the get go, he would be entirely corrupted. A Cloned entity wouldn't have the same environmental factors and morals as the original entity therefore it wouldn't have the same outlook and purpose. So if a cloned Emperor was created, he would probably be nothing like the original Emperor apart from having a similar power level/abilities.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

All of them are pretty destructive. But I would have to go with Typhus, nothing is more terrifying than an contagious incurable disease. Zombie plauge look at any zombie movie, no matter how much quarenteening it gets out.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I don't actually think that creating a cloned emperor is even possible. Just seems lime a stretch for me. Anyway, I am just going for Ahrimon. If he actually managed to access the black library it would probably be a death sentence for the space wolves. You eliminate the wolves and you do some major damage to the imperium. After that I don't know if he could be stoped.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Definately Ahriman. Say what you will about the others but Ahriman plans to be a new chaos god. That is a HUGE threat to the imperium. He also appears very close to this goal unlike other big wannabe threats.

As for the others:

Fabius Bile: cloning the emperor is impossible and seems ridiculous even for 40K. There is no evidence he has even come close.

Typhus: His diseases do kill people BUT once quarantined the plaque stops and he is swiftly sent off by Inquisition.

Lucius: I see no reason why he is a threat.

Kharn: He is just a bloodthirsty maniac-not really one for causing grave danger to the imperium.

Huron: His influence is confined to the maelstrom.


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## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

Well Kharn is just a killer. He has no grand warband or huge fleet. He just shows up on the battlefield and kills things. Lucius is basicly the same except he just wants a challenge. On the battlefield they are dangerous but little threat to the Imperium on a large scale.

Typhus had his fleet and his zombie plauges. He can do alot of damage quickly and in a short time but ultimately he can be contained. Ahirman is searching for the Black Library at the moment but right now he is more of a threat to the Eldar than the Imperium.

I would have to say it ties between Fabius and Huron myself. Huron may be just a pirate lord but he is a very powerful pirate lord. Going by current fluff he is now besieging the White Scars homeworld in the 5th edition codex and he already destroyed a chapter.

Bile is dangerous because of his genetic research and ability to supply more Chaos Marines to the Chaos Lords.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Stephen_Newman said:


> Typhus: His diseases do kill people BUT once quarantined the plaque stops and he is swiftly sent off by Inquisition.


I think he still wins, his disease would kill millions in a system, and we all know how the inquisition does "quarantine", which just adds to the death toll


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> I think he still wins, his disease would kill millions in a system, and we all know how the inquisition does "quarantine", which just adds to the death toll


While that is true, the death toll added by the Inquisition is merely statistics, as mister Stalin would say._ (The death of a man is a tragedy, but the death of millions is mere statistics.)_ 

Personally, I would have it a tossup between Ahriman and Fabius for the reasons already posted. In that poll, I would probably chose Fabius - because he affects the Legions in so many indirect ways. It's like the arms-dealer of arms dealers.


But there is one thing that kind of puzzles me on that list. Where is Abaddon? He is clearly the number one threat to the Imperium, managing to unite the hordes of Chaos under a single banner. If he would only manage to keep them from killing each other to satisfy the Great Game a little bit longer, he could do even worse damage than he already has. Considering the Black Legion can create its own berzerkers, the World Eaters aren't that important in the grand factor either (although they certainly factor in for something.) 

The other heroes are ones that seem to need the support of a grander army in order for themselves to be of any effect. Typhus would need support of his fleet, Lucious... well ok, he simply doesn't die - but still. 
Khârn may be a one man killing machine, but will easily die unless he is trailing (or spearheading) another army.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Abaddon is not included because the thread creator stated that he already believed abaddon was the biggest threat to the imperium.

Secondly is it just me or is Abaddon just one of the most boring special characters out there.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

lucius if were to get on terra he would be a scourge to get rid of considering he will just keep taking the bodies of who ever kills him. but other than that ahriman


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

5tonsledge said:


> lucius if were to get on terra he would be a scourge to get rid of considering he will just keep taking the bodies of who ever kills him.


Dependent on Slaanesh of course though.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

5tonsledge said:


> lucius if were to get on terra he would be a scourge to get rid of considering he will just keep taking the bodies of who ever kills him. but other than that ahriman


Surely all we'd need to do is capture him and fire the fucker into the sun (or just keep him locked up for eternity)


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Hang on. Since fluff wise whoever defeats lucius gets possessed and then born through them does that mean that if he was fired into the sun then he would in turn possess the sun and blow it apart?

Also if Lucius happened to drown in a natural way (like an avalanche) then who does he possess?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

What if he tripped, hit his head and drowned in a puddle (after all even 6 inches of water can be deadly)? Would he possess the puddle? What if the water evaporated before he could, he'd be bang out of luck.


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## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

Stephen_Newman said:


> Secondly is it just me or is Abaddon just one of the most boring special characters out there.


Actually he is one of my favourite characters.

On the Lucius issue I believe that even if you somehow found a loophole in his ressurection thing he would probably get revived in the body of the nearest Slaaneshi worshipper by Slaanesh.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

you guys are making this more complicated than it has to be he takes whoever defeats him so i guess if you were to trip him and then he drowned in a puddle you would be resposible for his death so he would take your body. so the space marine that captured him and shot him into the sun would in return be the marine who gets posessed. it would be awesome if the emperor killed him though....ha ha ha humanity would be doomed.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Of course we could have the servitor who pressed the button firing him into the sun to be in a locked room which we then towed into orbit of the Inquisitorial Fortress on one of Saturn's moons (as happens in one of the Grey Knights books) doesn't matter if he comes back then, he's not going anywhere. And I didn't say he was tripped by someone, rather that he just tripped by accident.


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## WarMaster Sindr (Jun 23, 2010)

Well then whoever triped him he would posse and continue with Slanneshs blessings of course. Ahriam is powerful but dont forget the Laughing God of the Eldar protects the Black Libary and you need acsess to the webway before that and its almost nigh impossible because Eldar are fircely defendive of it, and How would one go about acsessing the webway. But on a personal note i would say Zombie Plauge


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

WarMaster Sindr said:


> Well then whoever triped him he would posse and continue with Slanneshs blessings of course.


I actually explained in the post above yours that it was an accident, like he stumbled on a pebble or something.


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## Endymion (Jul 19, 2010)

I know it's from Lexicanum so it's questionable, but it claims that Lucius' annoying resurrection ability only works if the person that kills him enjoys it. So if you killed him without being emotional he'd stay dead, although I doubt anyone could kill the smug bastard without enjoying it...

On another note, I think Ahriman is up there as the one who could *potentially* be the Imperium's greatest threat (if he ever gets into the Black Library...) but otherwise I think Typhus for the whole zombie death reason.

EDIT: So... If Lucius ever lost to a Necron he'd be screwed?


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## Khargoth (Aug 5, 2010)

Endymion said:


> I know it's from Lexicanum so it's questionable, but it claims that Lucius' annoying resurrection ability only works if the person that kills him enjoys it. So if you killed him without being emotional he'd stay dead, although I doubt anyone could kill the smug bastard without enjoying it..
> 
> EDIT: So... If Lucius ever lost to a Necron he'd be screwed?


Indeed. Mind you, it's not so much taking enjoyment as being proud of it. Knowing Lucius, he'd seek out the Necron Lord, and if he was defeated, the Lord has _some_ shadow of life in him, enough that killing a mortal would provoke even the tiniest spark of pride. It's a long shot but you could wind up with a Living Metal Lucius :wacko:


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## Tzeen Qhayshek (May 4, 2010)

I will have to change my vote to Bile. If he was able to create a new wave of Primarchs the Imperium would have a very bad hair day.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Surely all we'd need to do is capture him and fire the fucker into the sun (or just keep him locked up for eternity)


Just have a necron fry his ass. They won't give a shit.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

so youre telling me that if a marine saw lucuis trip fall and drown in a puddle they wouldnt laugh so fucking hard that they would enjoy it. but honestly Ahriman would trap all of terra in a warp storm and then open up a blackhole with in the storm.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

5tonsledge said:


> so youre telling me that if a marine saw lucuis trip fall and drown in a puddle they wouldnt laugh so fucking hard that they would enjoy it. but honestly Ahriman would trap all of terra in a warp storm and then open up a blackhole with in the storm.


Where's this marine come from? I never said he an audience. Really you're making this more complex than it needs to be.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

i just added the marine because that would be really funny to see big bad lucius the eternal eat shit in a puddle of water and drown.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

To get back on topic I will move this conversation to a new thread entitled "Can Lucius actually die?"


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I'd have to go with Fabious, I don't think he's as powerful as Ahriman but he does seem to devote more of his attention to the Imperium. 
Ahriman seems more concerned with gathering knowledge for the sake of it more than actively opposing the Imperium. I'm sure that if Ahriman so chose he could wipe out a huge chunk of the galaxy with a mere thought, it's just from what I've read he doesn't really seem that interested.


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

Hmm, this is really hard. It's either Bile or Typhus.

Ahriman seems like a powerful foe (and he is, don't get me wrong) it's just that he still has so much to learn/do before he can become uber-powerful and god-like. So I think in time, Ahriman could be the biggest threat, but for now it's either Bile or typhus. I'm not casting a vote yet because it's a tough one


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## turel2 (Mar 2, 2009)

Ahriman will become a new chaos god if he gets the to the black library.


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

Yeah but that's an if. I know he was really close in one ov the crusades but it's a pretty nigh-impossible feat to accomplish. It will take a long time to do. You know what, after thinking about it, yeah Fabius can do all these things with drugs and splicing, but Typhus can cause a lot ov damage really fast. my vote goes for typhus. can't believe I'm saying this, I don't even really like Nurgle hahaha oh well...


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Chaos Marines are relatively so few in number that I don't think any of them could pose a threat to the Imperium. Even big bad Abaddon isn't really a threat. Sure he is dangerous in a very localised way, but there isn't very much that CSM have that is really a physical threat. Might constitute a moral threat, but nothing more.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

darklove said:


> Chaos Marines are relatively so few in number that I don't think any of them could pose a threat to the Imperium. Even big bad Abaddon isn't really a threat. Sure he is dangerous in a very localised way, but there isn't very much that CSM have that is really a physical threat. Might constitute a moral threat, but nothing more.


chaos recruit and use gene seed man so we can still fill dead spots with new guys.


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## Arkeanixii (Apr 8, 2009)

i vote typhus
but theres nothing that says cloning can't be done in this time and era but bile trying to clone the emperor might take alot of know how, 
but if he could clone or make new Primarchs that would mean ruin's for the loyal armies of the Emperor not having any Primarchs of there own right now.
Don't get me wrong there are some heros who might be able to give the old primarchs a run for there money and some of the new leaders of chaos are powers unto the old primarchs thanks to the chaos empowerment

i think Fabius Bile and Ahriman could make a primarch togather mix genetics and magic and they would have a arch-primarch that would be able to stand toe to toe with any of the orginal chapter Lords

but chaos never stand togather united for long thats the name "Chaos" they are always out for them selves


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I said Huron. He basically helped gave a severe blow to the Ultramarines and their worlds by giving Honsou his puny yet effective army for what it was. It slapped around the Ultramarines around for a bit, which is a triumph (though Honsou gets most of the rep).


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

5tonsledge said:


> chaos recruit and use gene seed man so we can still fill dead spots with new guys.


What's all the 'we' business? Are you seriously suggesting that CSM can win by 'filling dead spots'? How many Chaos Legions are there? Lets be generous and give them a total of 30,000 Chaos Marines between them. Put that against the total number of Space Marines, probably about 60,000 at any one time, and the Imperial Guard with several BILLION soldiers. 

I don't think plugging a few dead spots with new guys is really going to cut the mustard. And try not to get lost in a fantasy world by so completely identifying yourself with a made up bunch of evil blokes wearing too much padding.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

darklove said:


> What's all the 'we' business? Are you seriously suggesting that CSM can win by 'filling dead spots'? How many Chaos Legions are there? Lets be generous and give them a total of 30,000 Chaos Marines between them. Put that against the total number of Space Marines, probably about 60,000 at any one time, and the Imperial Guard with several BILLION soldiers.
> 
> I don't think plugging a few dead spots with new guys is really going to cut the mustard. And try not to get lost in a fantasy world by so completely identifying yourself with a made up bunch of evil blokes wearing too much padding.


I don't really want to support 5tonsledge here but the amount of Chaos Marines in the Black Legion alone probably numbers at least 30,000 (though they are the largest Traitor Legion by a significant ratio), I believe the manpower of fallen Astartes in the Eye of Terror is closer to 100,000 than it is 30,000. Of course there are 2 Traitor Legions that don't really have that much of a presence in the Eye of Terror, the Word Bearers and Alpha Legion being based in the Maelstrom and real space, respectively (yes both the Red Corsairs and Word Bearers use the Maelstrom as thier main refuge, it's a big place so I doubt they run into each other that often).


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I think I missed a '0' off the end of that. SMs should number about 600,000 in total, taking losses and renegades into account.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

darklove said:


> I think I missed a '0' off the end of that. SMs should number about 600,000 in total, taking losses and renegades into account.


You are aware that there are ~1,000 Chapters, and that there is ~1,000,000 Astartes right?

Hell there 600 Chapter alone who use Guilliman's gene seed.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I like how so far people seem to think chaos is just marines VS the entire imperium and thats it, everyone has said traitor legions but I've heard no mention of the billions of cultists and traitor guard out there already in imperial space, the practically infinite number of daemons that can be called upon anywhere, and all the other things chaos has it there disposal, its a heck of allot closer than 100,000 chaos marines VS 1,000,000 Astartes and a billion guardsmen and *insert number here* anything else, still piss poor odds yes, but not as bad as some are making it out to be.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> You are aware that there are ~1,000 Chapters, and that there is ~1,000,000 Astartes right?
> 
> Hell there 600 Chapter alone who use Guilliman's gene seed.


I am well aware that the theoretical maximum number of possible SMs is 1,000,000. In practical terms though you must admit that this is unlikely to be the number of SMs. Losses are not replaced over night, several chapters have gone rogue or been declared heretic, and some got completely wiped out.
The total SM strength available at any time in the whole galaxy can't be much above 60%, and that is being generous.


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## Abbott (Aug 1, 2009)

Fabius Bile, as Child-of-the-Emperor said. Primarch creation and the new men:crazy:


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

i would have to say Typhus is the greatest threat to the imperium mainly because all he as to do is infect one person, send him to a planet of his choosing and just watch the planet become infected, he could easily bring down a whole system with only a few infected people,


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> I don't really want to support 5tonsledge here but the amount of Chaos Marines in the Black Legion alone probably numbers at least 30,000 (though they are the largest Traitor Legion by a significant ratio)


And even then I would say that is being a bit harsh on numbers. We know that the Black Legion outnumbers the entire Word Bearers Legion by 10:1 (Source: _Dark Creed_), and taking into account that the Word Bearers were the largest Traitor Legion during the Heresy, I think its safe to say that the Black Legion (as a whole) number a lot more than 30,000. 

No doubt there are likely more Imperial Astartes in total than there are Chaos Astartes, but if we take into account that the vast majority of all Chaos Astartes are concentrated either in the Eye of Terror or the Maelstrom then at least at these Warp Rifts the Chaos Astartes outnumber the Imperial Astartes significantly I would say (apart from when dozens upon dozens of Chapters are called in from across the Galaxy to challenge Black Crusades and the like). 

The Astartes Praeses are the only permenant Imperial Astartes stationed around the Eye of Terror, a mere 18 Chapters/~18,000 Marines compared to many times that number of Chaos Astartes...



darklove said:


> and the Imperial Guard with several BILLION soldiers.


I'd change that figure to TRILLION rather than BILLION!

But lets also take into account that the hordes of the Lost and the Damned and Devoted Cultists also number into the Trillions. Aside from the no doubt several Xenos species devoted to Chaos and the like...


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## Anfo (Jul 17, 2009)

I'd have to say Ahriman. Though I don't like him, if he gain access to the black library, he'l will not just destroy the Imperium, but the entire galaxy and then some. 

But until he get into the Black Library, I think Typhus is.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I think people are overestimating ahriman's abilities. He may have the knowledge to destroy the imperium... But I don't believe he has the power.


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