# Did the Emperor have a superiority complex?



## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

when he was walking around....did he think he was better/superior to everyone else, that he was more important then any other human in the galaxy?


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## Angel of Lies (Oct 10, 2011)

Anyone who doesn't go by his birth name but rather by the given name "The Emperor of All Mankind" definitely has a god-complex of some sort going on.

Did he think his life more important than any other human? Yes, and I'd have to agree. Without him there was never a chance for Humanity to overcome Chaos. We'd have simply lived under it in some form or another.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Does the pope shit in Rome?


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Angel of Lies said:


> "The Emperor of All Mankind" definitely has a god-complex of some sort going on.


In _The First Heretic_ we see names have power. Simply knowing the name of a person can give you power of him or her.

That's probably one of the reasons why the Emperor went only by his title.


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## Demon of Humanity (Aug 19, 2013)

hailene said:


> In _The First Heretic_ we see names have power. Simply knowing the name of a person can give you power of him or her.
> 
> That's probably one of the reasons why the Emperor went only by his title.


if anyone knew the emperors name it must be someone he trusted and that knew him from very old days.

as for having power over him with the name not really that applies to deamons/entities not living humans like the emperor well when he was full flesh and blood and not stuck in glorified life support system.

If names had that kind of power living the primarchs would have bee controlled easily


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Pariah touches upon this.


The antagonists trying to learn the Emperor's true name to gain power over him. And remeber, in Mortarion's heart, Kaldor Draigo dominated Mortarion with the Primarch's true name. 

Daemons can be forced to submit by knowing their true name, and in Prospero burns, a daemon had power over his victims by knowing their names, until he tried one he got wrong.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

Demon of Humanity said:


> if anyone knew the emperors name it must be someone he trusted and that knew him from very old days.
> 
> as for having power over him with the name not really that applies to deamons/entities not living humans like the emperor well when he was full flesh and blood and not stuck in glorified life support system.
> 
> If names had that kind of power living the primarchs would have bee controlled easily


if you read Prospero burns, you will find out that the power of knowing someones name actualy has power over the living, tho it only was executed with the power of the warp for as far as I´m aware


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

hailene said:


> In _The First Heretic_ we see names have power. Simply knowing the name of a person can give you power of him or her.
> 
> That's probably one of the reasons why the Emperor went only by his title.





Demon of Humanity said:


> if anyone knew the emperors name it must be someone he trusted and that knew him from very old days.
> 
> as for having power over him with the name not really that applies to deamons/entities not living humans like the emperor well when he was full flesh and blood and not stuck in glorified life support system.
> 
> If names had that kind of power living the primarchs would have bee controlled easily


It would seem that a Warp nexus must be involved, by either the user of the named, or the named themselves. Otherwise, WH40K would be a true fantasy, where every parent could get their child to behave simply by calling out their full 'true name'. I try it with mine and not so much.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Where have we seen the Emperor showcase his 'superiority' over those who served him?

Just because he's the most powerful entity in the Imperium doesn't automatically make him have said complex.

To me he's essentially Superman but with no qualms about killing millions if not billions for the greater good.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Demon of Humanity said:


> as for having power over him with the name not really that applies to deamons/entities not living humans like the emperor well when he was full flesh and blood and not stuck in glorified life support system.


Alongside _Pariah_ and _Prospero Burns_, _Ahriman: Exile_ also supports the idea that is doesn't just wholly apply to daemons/warp entities:


A Chaos Space Marine Sorcerer believes it is possible and even begins a ritual to enslave another Chaos Space Marine Sorcerer-turned Oracle by using his name to do so.
 

Though, as _Over Two Metres Tall_ said, the warp is certainly involved. 

I am convinced that the main reason the Emperor is known only as "The Emperor" is because enemies being aware of his true name would be a massive ***** in his armour. 



Malus Darkblade said:


> Where have we seen the Emperor showcase his 'superiority' over those who served him?
> 
> Just because he's the most powerful entity in the Imperium doesn't automatically make him have said complex.
> 
> To me he's essentially Superman but with no qualms about killing millions if not billions for the greater good.


If the Emperor had a human psyche, or something at least relatable, I would argue he had a form of god-complex. As a mortal, you can't wield that sheer amount of power and not have an "unshakable belief characterized by consistently inflated feelings of personal ability, privilege, or infallibility" (definition according to wikipedia). 

There is evidence which can be used to argue this point, such as his treatment of the Primarchs or his disbelief at Horus' betrayal. But, of course, others can just as justifiably have an alternative viewpoint.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> There is evidence which can be used to argue this point, such as his treatment of the Primarchs or his disbelief at Horus' betrayal. But, of course, others can just as justifiably have an alternative viewpoint.


If by treatment of the Primarchs you mean his decision to keep them ignorant of the Pantheon then arguably you could say he felt they were not yet ready to be told. I'm hoping ADB provides a more plausible rationale for why he kept his sons in the dark. 

Horus's betrayal. He knew his sons better than they knew themselves so he must have known Horus's betrayal wasn't because of built up anger. Perhaps what shocked the Emperor was Chaos got to him at some point and he wasn't sure how and when.


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> ....Otherwise, WH40K would be a true fantasy, where every parent could get their child to behave simply by calling out their full 'true name'. I try it with mine and not so much.


Oh man this quote had me laughing. I have children myself and it does sort of work. When I call them by their full name (rather than their pet or shortened name) they know they're in trouble. Also my wife says that the only time she ever gets called her full name (as she's always known by the shortened version) she thinks she's in trouble as it reminds her of her childhood. :grin:

It's not often I come to the Grimdark forum and find a Grin Dark quote instead. Thanks OTMT :laugh:


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

zerachiel76 said:


> Oh man this quote had me laughing. I have children myself and it does sort of work. When I call them by their full name (rather than their pet or shortened name) they know they're in trouble. Also my wife says that the only time she ever gets called her full name (as she's always known by the shortened version) she thinks she's in trouble as it reminds her of her childhood. :grin:
> 
> It's not often I come to the Grimdark forum and find a Grin Dark quote instead. Thanks OTMT :laugh:


You're most welcome! I just have to wonder if the Emperor, with 20 kids, actually gets their name right on the first go, or if he has to cycle through at least 3-4 before getting the right one. I can barely keep two straight.

"Dammit Angron, did you have to commit Exterminatus!"

"No Dad, I'm Russ, Angron was the one who committed Heresy. Will you get it right already?!"


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Does the pope shit in Rome?


No.......he shits in the Vatican.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

In Rome.

That's like saying does the queen shits in London, not England.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Vaz said:


> That's like saying does the queen shits in London, not England.


Hrm, I thought the Vatican was its own independent country, no? 

A bit of googling would suggest so as well.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Inside Rome.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

hailene said:


> Hrm, I thought the Vatican was its own independent country, no?
> 
> A bit of googling would suggest so as well.





Vaz said:


> Inside Rome.


Yes, it's also a monarchy, and has a weird place in the EU.

It's surrounded by Rome... That's like saying Australia is in the Pacific ocean.....it's surrounded by it. Or like saying Switzerland is in France, Germany, Italy, or Austria.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

What is the filling of a doughnut? Jam. It's inside the donut, and surrounded by it.

The Pope is shitting in the pooey centre of the chocolate roman doughnut.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

While amusing this is off topic guys. Lets keep on track please.


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## godking (Oct 13, 2013)

Emperorguard500 said:


> when he was walking around....did he think he was better/superior to everyone else, that he was more important then any other human in the galaxy?


he was better and superior to everyone else ;-)


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Emperorguard500 said:


> when he was walking around....did he think he was better/superior to everyone else, that he was more important then any other human in the galaxy?


Well, considering established fluff (Visions of Heresy, I belive) indicates the Emperor knew that interment on the Golden Throne for the next 10,000 years was the best possible outcome he could hope for, I think it might be more along the lines of the Universes Greatest Optimist. Or possibly, like Curze, his knowledge of his fate, of not the exact path to get there, lent him an air of fatalism that could be mistaken for self-importance or egomania.

I wonder if he ever foresaw Malcador crumbling to dust?


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## 40kBookReviews (Aug 24, 2014)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> Well, considering established fluff (Visions of Heresy, I belive) indicates the Emperor knew that interment on the Golden Throne for the next 10,000 years was the best possible outcome he could hope for, I think it might be more along the lines of the Universes Greatest Optimist. Or possibly, like Curze, his knowledge of his fate, of not the exact path to get there, lent him an air of fatalism that could be mistaken for self-importance or egomania.
> 
> I wonder if he ever foresaw Malcador crumbling to dust?


Is it actually written that the Emperor knew he would end up being entombed on the Golden Throne?

I know the Emperor had a very strong gift for predicting the future, but it always seemed to me like he was hoping that he would actually be able to finish his webway project on Terra and lead mankind into a new age.

Also, if he had perfect vision of how events would unfold, it seems strange that he would allow for Chaos to interfere with the Primarch project. Not to mention creating the Primarchs in the first place, since they would essentially be his own downfall.

I've always thought of the Emperor as an incredibly gifted psyker that was exceptionally gifted, but who was ultimately still limited in some capacity and had to do what he *thought* was best, given his vast but imperfect amount of insight about the future.


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## thebinman (Jun 18, 2010)

Yep, the Outcast Dead makes this pretty clear (it also makes the Emperor seem a very cool dude to be around :good




40kBookReviews said:


> Is it actually written that the Emperor knew he would end up being entombed on the Golden Throne?


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## 40kBookReviews (Aug 24, 2014)

thebinman said:


> Yep, the Outcast Dead makes this pretty clear (it also makes the Emperor seem a very cool dude to be around :good


Hmm okay, I can't say I remember that passage, but it is a very long time since I read that book.

I'm also very ambivalent about authors putting the Emperor into their novels. I feel like it's not really possible to do justice to the idea of the Emperor. He never feels quite "right" to me. Either swinging too much into being "a powerful dude" or too much into "omnipotent being"


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## thebinman (Jun 18, 2010)

In this book the Emperor's character was drawn just right for me. I also liked the passage in the first Dark Angels book where the marines literally couldn't look at him, just was the physic force...

The Emperor is being kept out of view just enough. Some of the primarches are being brought out too much and are staring to look all too human (Roboute Guilliman...)



40kBookReviews said:


> Hmm okay, I can't say I remember that passage, but it is a very long time since I read that book.
> 
> I'm also very ambivalent about authors putting the Emperor into their novels. I feel like it's not really possible to do justice to the idea of the Emperor. He never feels quite "right" to me. Either swinging too much into being "a powerful dude" or too much into "omnipotent being"


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## 40kBookReviews (Aug 24, 2014)

thebinman said:


> In this book the Emperor's character was drawn just right for me. I also liked the passage in the first Dark Angels book where the marines literally couldn't look at him, just was the physic force...
> 
> The Emperor is being kept out of view just enough. Some of the primarches are being brought out too much and are staring to look all too human (Roboute Guilliman...)


Funny that you mention Roboute Guilliman. I was so disappointed with how he was written in "The Unremembered Empire" (Which was a very disappointing book for me in general...)


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I don't think that the Primarch's are being made too human by being kept "in the public eye", but more to do with the fact that he nearly got killed by 10 marines, and that Curze was only able to kill a single space wolf.

Regardless of the actual factors, and I'm no Lux when it comes to Curze, but a Primarch should be able to tear into Space Wolves and leave little more than a bunch of shredded meat, and Guilliman requiring days to recover? There are several notable power levels at play of Primarchs - Superman-like McNeils, where only plot can kill them, to Abnetts Batman, where they are simply powerful "humans", or "Astartes".

ADB's Primarchs are in between them - able to perform absolutely super humanly in combat, but still feel like they run a real risk of death from something more dangerous than a randomly flying round. Few other authors have written about Primarchs in enough depth to adequately judge, and others who have written have done so in a manner that their stories are completely ridiculous - Vulkan, and Sanguinius mainly.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

thebinman said:


> In this book the Emperor's character was drawn just right for me. I also liked the passage in the first Dark Angels book where the marines literally couldn't look at him, just was the physic force...
> 
> The Emperor is being kept out of view just enough. Some of the primarches are being brought out too much and are staring to look all too human (Roboute Guilliman...)


I agree with the fact that the Emperor's mind should be kept on the down low. Though, as for the primarchs, I think they are necessary to be stooped at that level so that we understand their mentalities during the Heresy. I would say that at least half the traitor primarchs haven't had a good job of being written about. So I understand some of your criticism. 



thebinman said:


> Yep, the Outcast Dead makes this pretty clear (it also makes the Emperor seem a very cool dude to be around :good


I actually think the Emperor was a selfless leader. This definitely defends this position. The crusade was ultimately created to defend and support mankind. As a father figure, I believe the Emperor really sacrificed a lot of relationships with his Primarchs for the best of the Imperium. Even to an extent, sacrificing his relationship with Lorgar in order to push the crusade shows this. A couple of the Primarch discoveries were also pretty cold in which he pushed the Crusade while sacrificing his relationships with some of his sons. He could have given some of the circumstances time in order to obtain their loyalty. 

Also, I think Horus' essential to Warmaster gets more skeptical. Why have a Warmaster? The Crusade is over. I mean literally there were a few worlds, however, what was Horus really getting out of this? In fact, even though we know how Horus felt and eventually turned him, it begs the question as how one doesn't see Horus viewing his position as pretty much a bullshit job. As far as it is concerned, Dorn had the most useful job when he went to Terra and essentially became a political and essential identity. Whatever the reason, its hard to say otherwise that the Emperor didn't know he was sacrificing the relationship of his favorite.

In fact, one way to look at this is the Emperor taking Dorn to Disney Land and having Horus, his favorite son, baby sit the rest of his asshole sons.


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## 40kBookReviews (Aug 24, 2014)

Vaz said:


> I don't think that the Primarch's are being made too human by being kept "in the public eye", but more to do with the fact that he nearly got killed by 10 marines, and that Curze was only able to kill a single space wolf.
> 
> Regardless of the actual factors, and I'm no Lux when it comes to Curze, but a Primarch should be able to tear into Space Wolves and leave little more than a bunch of shredded meat, and Guilliman requiring days to recover? There are several notable power levels at play of Primarchs - Superman-like McNeils, where only plot can kill them, to Abnetts Batman, where they are simply powerful "humans", or "Astartes".
> 
> ADB's Primarchs are in between them - able to perform absolutely super humanly in combat, but still feel like they run a real risk of death from something more dangerous than a randomly flying round. Few other authors have written about Primarchs in enough depth to adequately judge, and others who have written have done so in a manner that their stories are completely ridiculous - Vulkan, and Sanguinius mainly.


Your comments about Primarch's strenghts echo my own *exactly*. It really bothered me reading through "The Unremembered Empire" how Guilliman seems to be just a "slightly tougher and stronger Space Marine" while other books have established them as much more superior beings that would be able to kill 10 Space Marines while thinking about what they were going to have for dinner and planning a planetary invasion.

Actually that book annoyed me so much I had to make a "Top 5 issues that bothered me about the Unremembered Empire"http://warhammer40kbookreviews.com/...s-with-the-unremembered-empire-book-spoilers/ that you can check out if you are interested in some more geek rage 

I think some of the most well realized Primarchs in my opinion are probably Corax in "Deliverance Lost" and Lorgar in "The First Heretic".



ckcrawford said:


> I actually think the Emperor was a selfless leader. This definitely defends this position. The crusade was ultimately created to defend and support mankind. As a father figure, I believe the Emperor really sacrificed a lot of relationships with his Primarchs for the best of the Imperium. Even to an extent, sacrificing his relationship with Lorgar in order to push the crusade shows this. A couple of the Primarch discoveries were also pretty cold in which he pushed the Crusade while sacrificing his relationships with some of his sons. He could have given some of the circumstances time in order to obtain their loyalty.


I'm not sure if selfless or ruthless is the right word.
Certainly it seems like the Emperor was/is obsessed with the preservation of mankind at all cost, which is sort of a selfless goal, even if the preservation of mankind is not necessarily for the best of the entire galaxy.

However, despite his 10.000 years of suffering on the Golden Throne, there is much talk about the Emperor eventually being reincarnated or perhaps even ascending into a true god of the Warp.
If there is "a way out" for the Emperor and it will make him perhaps even more powerful than he ever was, is it really selflessness or a megalomaniac desire to be the savior of mankind?

There is little doubt that the current state of the Imperium is hell made manifest for the majority of the Imperial population. If you don't die from horrible pollution in some crammed hive city or a terrible work accident in a manufacturium, then you'll likely die at the hands of something foul and soul-devouring in the ranks of the Imperial Guard.
Is the Emperor in reality simply perpetuating an eternal dystopia out of sheer stubborn unwillingness to let events take their natural course?


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