# Mawloc Vs Tygon Prime?



## bobss (May 18, 2008)

I know its early, the Codex hasn`t even come out yet, but I was wondering what your opinions be on the Mawloc and Trygon(s). Inperticular which one is generally better, As I plan to add ONE in a 2.000 pt force :victory:

Admittedly they are both designed differently. The Trygon is better in close combat, with a shooting attack that from the last of my knowledge was a good Inf killer. The Prime has Synapse abilities, a better shooting attack, and Im willing to bet roughly better stats and so on. Plus, both of them create a 'hole' in which Broods of Ravenors can use in later phases, useful as I plan to take 2 squads of 3 XD. On the other hand, my Guard opponent has some plan scetched out involving pyskers, and... Lascannon teams.. an Inquisitor or something, which means if I deep strike within 4d6 of that unit they get 6 free shots. 

The Mawloc is still going to be a beast in CC, and I _think_ its got some swallow special rule like the Red Terror. So thats awesome against Sentinels, Dreds and... Defilers?. Also as my friend plans to take ALOT of Lascannon and Autocannon teams, It would be useful to have the special deep-strike rule in which all models suffer a S6 hit (?). Mawloc however is cheaper, Im guessing quite alot cheaper than a Prime.

Any advice on the better of the two, or what would be good against my opponents Guard?:good:


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

bobss said:


> I know its early, the Codex hasn`t even come out yet, but I was wondering what your opinions be on the Mawloc and Trygon(s). Inperticular which one is generally better, As I plan to add ONE in a 2.000 pt force :victory:
> 
> Admittedly they are both designed differently. The Trygon is better in close combat, with a shooting attack that from the last of my knowledge was a good Inf killer. The Prime has Synapse abilities, a better shooting attack, and Im willing to bet roughly better stats and so on. Plus, both of them create a 'hole' in which Broods of Ravenors can use in later phases, useful as I plan to take 2 squads of 3 XD. On the other hand, my Guard opponent has some plan scetched out involving pyskers, and... Lascannon teams.. an Inquisitor or something, which means if I deep strike within 4d6 of that unit they get 6 free shots.
> 
> ...


Try both....? Just use magnets on the head and tail. They both sound really fun. I got one pre-ordered and it looks like I will finally have a use for my five raveners. Pretty happy. 

Personally, if word on the super gargoyle harpy is true, I want one of those.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> Personally, if word on the super gargoyle harpy is true, I want one of those.


Same  though it`ll be a bitch to make xD.

Magnets are not really an option as there is alot of crests, plates etc on on the Mawloc, although as my friend intents to buy some magnets soon I may buy (as they are very expensive) some of him XD


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## edd_thereaper (Oct 21, 2008)

trygon is an absolute beast, mawloc is a beast that causes hits when it comes up which are something like str 6 ap 2 and if i remember correctly it can burrow back down again and repeat the above process so personally i would probably go for a mawloc although to be perfectly honest one of each would scare the pants off me in a smaller points game

cheers

edd


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

bobss said:


> Same  though it`ll be a bitch to make xD.
> 
> Magnets are not really an option as there is alot of crests, plates etc on on the Mawloc, although as my friend intents to buy some magnets soon I may buy (as they are very expensive) some of him XD


That sucks... magnets here are dirt cheap. Got a couple hundred of those super magnets of various sizes for about five Canadian dollars.

If you magnetize the crests with the 2mm by 2mm and painted over the magnets it may work... not sure how big those crest and whatnot are. This is the first I have heard of them though. Might not look super up close and personal, but it isn't two models...


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

The Mawloc has 3 attacks at WS3, yay...? No scything talons either, so no reroll to hits.

The Trygon is a much better combat choice, even the regular (though its not a synapse, so the upgrade is well worth it).

Your gambling with the Mawlocs DP ability, which is only a S6 AP2 Large blast, not that great even if it doesn't scatter.

There is no swallow ability, its pretty soft hitting really...

Trygon Prime ftw here


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> The Mawloc has 3 attacks at WS3, yay...? No scything talons either, so no reroll to hits.


Seriously?

I knew it wasn`t in the league of a Trygon but thats poor...



> There is no swallow ability, its pretty soft hitting really...


Again, that contradicts all the fluff I have heard/read about it, plus the actually model.... so that seriously, puts the Mawloc out of contention. Bring on the Prime! + Ravenors with Rending and Re-roll 1s xD... and Devourers...

And lol edd, I was looking at the list you posted like a few nights ago (on MSN) and I was like ''yah! no anti-infantry)... then I saw the plasma cannons...


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Tyrgon Prime is the best of 3 hands down. Not only is a beast in close combat, it also has a damn nice shooting attack.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

bobss said:


> Any advice on the better of the two


the one that gives you the most pleasure and laughs during your games, simple seeing as that is the only factor you should ever need to consider.

just build the model up to the point you have to choose the specific parts, play with both, see which is more fun, and finish then.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

The Trygon will most likely be the best pick almost all times. Way better stats for combat, rerolls on misses and a shooting attack too.

I can confirm that there aint no Red-Terror-Eat-Model-Kind-of-Attack on the Mawloc, so get rid of those hopes:wink:

My bet will be that a Trygon Prime w Reg and Adrenaline Glands will be standard, clocking in at 275 pts. 12 Pulse Carbine equivalent shots when it enters play and then wild fray from the turn after:grin:


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Mawloc can deep strike every turn, and where it re-appears, place the arge template, any model covered by the template suffers a str6 Ap3 hit (think powered up swooping hawks).

This is true as i have seen the codex briefs at my local GW. so you 'know-it-alls' can keep quiet.

This makes the mawloc one of the best shock troops in-game.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> can confirm that there aint no Red-Terror-Eat-Model-Kind-of-Attack on the Mawloc, so get rid of those hopes


They were never really hopes, but from the fluff put out my GW and the god-damned anatomy the the thing it seems such an anti-climax.

The Trygon Prime is something Im going for. I mean, with Adrenal glands, possibley Regen, then it becomes a beast in CC and a decent shooting attack (That puts the Soulgrinders Harvester guns to shame...) and with several units of Ravenors bursting through behind it, with Devourers to shred inf, it should be a good strat, though a massive lascannon magent...


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Orochi said:


> This is true as i have seen the codex briefs at my local GW. so you 'know-it-alls' can keep quiet.


Have fun going back and forth to your GW, I don't have to travel nearly as far :grin:




Orochi said:


> This makes the mawloc one of the best shock troops in-game.


Thats a bit of an overstatement.

My personal thoughts are that its pretty awful, it stands no hope in assault. And bear in mind you're not likely to kill a whole unit with the DP ability, so they will assault you next turn. You then have to survive and successfully retreat from assault before you can attempt to burrow and attack again.

Not that great, can't come in till turn two at the earliest and your not going to re-burrow the next turn because you'll be locked in combat.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Orochi said:


> Mawloc can deep strike every turn, and where it re-appears, place the arge template, any model covered by the template suffers a str6 Ap3 hit (think powered up swooping hawks).
> 
> This is true as i have seen the codex briefs at my local GW. so you 'know-it-alls' can keep quiet.
> 
> This makes the mawloc one of the best shock troops in-game.


S6 AP2 large blast every turn... He's also not allowed to be in combat when he reburrows (he does have H&R though, so GW didn't completely cock it up) and it has to reburrow in the movement phase (so you have to choose between assaulting or getting your large blast next turn). So basically you pay 170pts for a model that just repeatably appears and reburrows for a single mid strength blast attack. Add to that the fact that it has no rerolls in assault and is only WS3, A3 and what do you have? An expensive model (that looks extremely cool!) but is ridiculously overpriced for what it does.

Now on the other had we have the trygon prime, a creature that has truly descended from the heavens. It has shadow in the warp just to further fuck with Eldar and Chaos players. It allows another unit to enter without scatter 6" from it, it also provides synapse for the inevitable number of raveners that will deepstrike with it. Add in the fact that it has a 12" S5 AP5 Assault 12 weapon and most important of all WS5, A6 (yes you read right A6!), rerolls to hit *and fleet* and the Trygon Prime is the true winner. The only downside is the 80pts extra it costs (including Adrenal Glands), but it is a price I'd gladly be paying if the Tervigon wasn't 100x better than the Prime:laugh:.

EDIT: Damn Concrete Hero you beat me to it. And at this stage who hasn't seen the codex?


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> but it is a price I'd gladly be paying if the Tervigon wasn't 100x better than the Prime


Ugh, Im guessing your going for one of those lists that sports multiple Tervigons and spam Termagaunts....

I intend to take little Warrior spammage, or a pair of Tyrants nor Carni squadrons so I dont mind paying the points for a Prime and some Ravenor squads to support...


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

> And at this stage who hasn't seen the codex?





> Have fun going back and forth to your GW, I don't have to travel nearly as far


Dito.


The Mawloc will, if the dice are with you, max dish out 3 cheeseplates during a game (turn 2,4,6) unless Ive mixed up the rules for it completely. The cheeseplate is only placed when it Deep Strikes into play. There are a bunch of dice included in that. The chance that something fucks up on the way is damn big!
The Trygon however will kill things every turn of the game from the turn it arrives from reserves. Sounds like a winner detail to me


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

bobss said:


> Ugh, Im guessing your going for one of those lists that sports multiple Tervigons and spam Termagaunts....


I'm actually only gonna field one (I'm converting it currently) with some termis. The rest is gonna be a mixture of the whole dex (I'm not that competitive a player) plus my converted alpha warrior.

Your right though the Tervigon will be spammed in competitive settings. Although Trygons (personally) are almost as viable.


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

bobss said:


> Any advice on the better of the two, or what would be good against my opponents Guard?:good:


Sounds to me like he'll be using an inquisitor with some mystics. 1 mystic allows the inquisitor's squad to fire on any unit that deepstrikes within 4D6", whereas 2 mystics allow a unit with a model with 12" to take the shots at them. These shots are free and happen as soon as the enemy deepstrikes in- not according to the normal turn sequence. 

Sounds to me like he intends to use his heavy weapons teams to pound your Trygon/Mawloc/Scary-death to death. Your best bet against this would be to deeepstrike outside the 4D6" range (24") but you could probably get away with 18".

On a final note he can take these "free shots at DSing units" inquisitors for dirt cheap - 32 points minimum (no upgrades on the inquisitor at all).


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> I'm actually only gonna field one (I'm converting it currently)


Same! I have this idea of a Carnifex giving bith to a load of Termagaunts, though I havent seen the pic (dont post one if you have, im waiting til the 16th XD )

And yeah Rich XD the mystics are a problem, although the Lascannon spam is more for my other freinds Carni`s XD im guessing...


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

bobss said:


> Same! I have this idea of a Carnifex giving bith to a load of Termagaunts, though I havent seen the pic (dont post one if you have, im waiting til the 16th XD )


Haha we had the same idea. Now that my dakkafex is useless I'm gonna give him a sex change and knock him up (metaphorically of course).


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Catpain Rich said:


> Sounds to me like he'll be using an inquisitor with some mystics. 1 mystic allows the inquisitor's squad to fire on any unit that deepstrikes within 4D6", whereas 2 mystics allow a unit with a model with 12" to take the shots at them. These shots are free and happen as soon as the enemy deepstrikes in- not according to the normal turn sequence.
> 
> Sounds to me like he intends to use his heavy weapons teams to pound your Trygon/Mawloc/Scary-death to death. Your best bet against this would be to deeepstrike outside the 4D6" range (24") but you could probably get away with 18".
> 
> On a final note he can take these "free shots at DSing units" inquisitors for dirt cheap - 32 points minimum (no upgrades on the inquisitor at all).


You don't have to deepstrike the Trygon you realise? Most of the time its a far better option just to rely on fleet to get you into combat. Especially if you get Regeneration(which is the most cost-effective regeneration in the Dex by the way)

Now, Tervigons are awesome, by far the best HQ. That being said...

Tervigon Spam will suck. It needs to include more than just Termagants and Tervigons. Heres what I see people making:

HQ: 2x Tervigons w/Catalyst

Elite: 2x 2x Zoanthropes w/ Landing Spores

Troop: 3x 20x Termagants
3x Tervigons w/ Catalyst

Total: 1665

Bear with me, first the chance of you losing the ability to spawn is 4/9. So you can expect to lose half your spawning abilities per turn. Now, most armies should be able to muster firepower to take down a Tervigon in a turn. So you start with 5 Tervigons, 2 shutdown, I shoot one of the working ones, you have 2 left to spawn with. Next turn? One shuts down, I kill the last one. So you left with 3, unspawning Tervigons. Also, those two Tervigons will take down a heap of Termagant when they do go down. In the list above, once the Tervigons are shutdown and I've caused casualties with the Tervigons deaths, all I have to do is kill the Zoanthropes and viola, he's running at me with a horde of tiny Gaunt Broods and a few slow Montrous creatures who are not that dangerous at all. 

Tervigon Spam doesn't work purely because the army is unbalanced, its a one trick pony that is easily crippled.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Going to try and work a Warrior force myself, with Six Zoanthropes of course 

Have a list written up that has 2 Tervigons and a load of gaunts. But I don't know :s Just not liking the feel of it.

But

Two Tervigons

2 X 3 Zoanthropes in Pods

3 (or 4...) X 30 Termagants

Trygon Prime

I THINK, I really can't remember, something like that.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

See, that is much more effective than the list I posted, the Tyrgon Prime goes a long way to give the army something hard-hitting, and the big Gaunt Broods are less likely to die off from the Tervigons deaths than the spawned ones.

What I'm trying to get at is that Tervigons are awesome, but they just can't be spammed.

I also think Genestealers will have a place in everylist. 10 with Toxin Sacs is 170points and is extremely killy, yet cheap enough for you not to worry about losing them. They be used to Outflank, or move behind your army as a Counter-attack force.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

I though regen was mandatory on Tervigons because they have so many wounds. Your right though, 5 Tervigons is stupid, but 3 with tyrants, zoanthropes, carnifexes and trygons supporting will rock.

But this thread is about Trygon vs Mawlock, not the best way to build a Tervigon army.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Aye, sorry for derailing it. 

Anybody have any reasons for taking a Mawloc over a Trygon Prime if its the only BIG thing your taking?


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

I suppose the S6 AP2 is useful against footslogger marine armies (if they existed anymore). May be good for killing devastators, HWTs, ect.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Aye that is true. I think the Mawloc will have a use, but if your going to take you one or the other, the Trygon offers much more. The extra combat ability is a great boon, and helps the army out more than the AP2 blast.

Once you have a Trygon, then a Mawloc offers something new. 

On the subject, a Trygon Prime is much better than a Trygon, easily worth the 50 points


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

i was thinking of taking a mawlock and a trygon just for the variety, im not sure how many points they are though so i cant be too sure that it would work pt wise =/


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Its not too point heavy mate


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

A Trygon Prime with all the necessary biomorphs costs about 250-275 (depending if you want regenerate, which is a must have IMO).
A Mawlock on the other hand doesn't really need any biomorphs and is a cheap(ish) 170.

The Trygon Prime is worth the extra 80-105 points.

PS: Am I allowed to post the points costs as long as I don't give individual costs for biomorphs?


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Yes you are 

Regenerate isn't nessecary, but it is the only cost effective one in the dex (save prehaps Warrior Alphas, depending on their role)


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

A pure foot slogging Deathwing army would love to face 3 Mawlocs, NOT!
After those I do think the list is done though, and honestly, how many of those do you play against?. 

The Mawloc is the HS version of the Pyrovore: a cool looking model with rules "0f t3h 5kuck":cray:


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

I do not see what the big-fuss with Zoanthropes is. I mean sure, S10 AP1 LANCE Is... well epic, but with a range of... 18"? a Toughness of 4 and with no Eternal Warrior, they will get Instand Killed by Lascannons... Same applies with Warrior spam. For armies that lack high strength weaponary, warrior spamage will be nasty, but especially Guard armies with Vendettas, Weapons teams, Sentinels and other high strength shooting attacks will not find it that hard.

I think the inclusion of Venomthropes with Hive Guard support with Tervigons and massed Termagaunts, with maybe a Trygon Prime and Ravenor support would be a nasty list... incidentally its what I intend to go for...


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

i was thinking of filling up my HS slots with a trygon varient (is the trygon prime HQ?) and a mawlock, plus a unit of 2-3 carnifex's (depending if i have the points)
Sorry im going to go a bit off topic but are toxithropes worth it? I wanted to maybe add them in, but i have my lictors, zoanthropes already, and i think hive guard are going to be snazzy transport killers


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> toxithropes worth it


Most people would say no, however, giving a 5+ cover save (And defensive grenades) and being fairly decent in CC make it - in my opinion - a useful inclusion in a swarm army, and hell, they are less likely to get insta killed than Zoans....



> HS slots with a trygon varient (is the trygon prime HQ?) and a mawlock, plus a unit of 2-3 carnifex's (depending if i have the points)


Dont take my word for sure, but I think the Prime is a HS, and I wouldn`t bother with a Mawlock tactically, but if you like its look (which I do) then its worth it.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

bobss said:


> Dont take my word for sure, but I think the Prime is a HS


almost positive this is true.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

bobss said:


> I do not see what the big-fuss with Zoanthropes is. I mean sure, S10 AP1 LANCE Is... well epic, but with a range of... 18"? a Toughness of 4 and with no Eternal Warrior, they will get Instand Killed by Lascannons... Same applies with Warrior spam. For armies that lack high strength weaponary, warrior spamage will be nasty, but especially Guard armies with Vendettas, Weapons teams, Sentinels and other high strength shooting attacks will not find it that hard.


Don't forget you can drop pod them in now, so range isn't really an issue if its vehicles you're going after.

I think the Nids in general are going to struggle against the Guard to be honest.




bobss said:


> I think the inclusion of Venomthropes with Hive Guard support with Tervigons and massed Termagaunts, with maybe a Trygon Prime and Ravenor support would be a nasty list... incidentally its what I intend to go for...



I'm still not nearly impressed by Raveners, they really should have a better save than they do. They are more vulnerable than warriors to high strength fire, its a crippling shame they can't assault from Deep Strike :grin:


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

It seems that the hive guard is slightly better than the zoanthrope. Although it doesn't have the killy power of the zoanthrope, it is a lot more survivable and 10pts cheaper. The zoanthropes are still a must against AV13+. Also keep in mind that the zoanthrope does have a 3+ invulnerable save so they're not completely vulnerable to instant death weapons, I'd even say they're more vulnerable to small arms fire.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> It seems that the hive guard is slightly better than the zoanthrope. Although it doesn't have the killy power of the zoanthrope, it is a lot more survivable and 10pts cheaper. The zoanthropes are still a must against AV13+. Also keep in mind that the zoanthrope does have a 3+ invulnerable save so they're not completely vulnerable to instant death weapons, I'd even say they're more vulnerable to small arms fire.


I still think you need both in an army. 2 Zoanthropes with Spore and 3 Hive Guard would be my pick.


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## SHarrington (Jan 7, 2010)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Anybody have any reasons for taking a Mawloc over a Trygon Prime if its the only BIG thing your taking?


I'm going to be using Mawlock(s) in my 'stealer shock list.

I'll be using the Swarmlord for his abilities relating to reserves and outflank.

A few (3-4) squads of stealers with broodlords.

Usually the bane of the outflank stealer army is to deploy all your forces in the center of the deployment zone and create mass fire lines.

I expect Mawlocks to force the opponent to deploy more riskily. I know it sounds silly, but the Mawlock is being used as a 'deterrant' to centralized deployment. Giving my stealers a better chance of getting to grips with the enemy.

I might be tempted to add a drop podded Doom of M. as well, to enhance my deployment control of the enemy.

I'm a personal believer that a game can be won, before a shot is fired, by forcing the opponent to make bad choices. The only requirement for this list is that the opponent has to know what you have and how it can be used. My opponent's ignorance can ruin my plans.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

SHarrington said:


> I'm going to be using Mawlock(s) in my 'stealer shock list.
> 
> I'll be using the Swarmlord for his abilities relating to reserves and outflank.
> 
> ...


The problem is, Mawlocs suck in combat. So you deepstrike into the enemy army and they simply charge you and you'll need to make an I to get away, if you survive. 

If you want the enemy moving towards the edges, drop Trygons, they are far more likely doing to want to run away from them


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## WannabeKurt (Jan 19, 2008)

> I'm a personal believer that a game can be won, before a shot is fired, by forcing the opponent to make bad choices. The only requirement for this list is that the opponent has to know what you have and how it can be used. My opponent's ignorance can ruin my plans.


Or use it to your advantage. So they all cluster up at the heart of the board. That's Okay too, ya know- The large blast template is not the biggest weapon in existence, but given it's stats, it's going to open up a whole world of pain on whatever it hits. Possibly the opponents HQ, maybe just an expensive unit (Scorpions, Termies, etc.), as they'll get no armor save. 

I agree with you, in that forcing your opponent to deploy to your tune is the way the list SHOULD be played-the question is how to do it. Might I suggest putting your 'locs down first, while you fiddle in your model case for the 'stealers and Swarmlord. Make it clear that you intend to use them- have alist out tat you read from, as if a checklist. you should only have to do so occasionally. What's more, if someone, over time, decides that it's worth the risk of the MAwlocs to deploy in the center, DoM, or something used to a similar effect (like a suicidal Pyrovore...yes, I know that's saying the same thing twice) well really make them scatter, once more.

Good luck, and may the blessings of the Four-armed Emperor go with you.


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

> Usually the bane of the outflank stealer army is to deploy all your forces in the center of the deployment zone and create mass fire lines.


well considering genestealers have infiltrate now, thats not to big of a deal as long as you are going first.


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