# Metro Newspaper Article



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

Not really a rumour but just an interesting article that appeared in today's Metro newspaper. 

For those that don't know, the Metro is a free paper given out to commuters in just about every big city in the UK. It's pretty much my first point of contact with what's going on in the world on any given day and I've learnt to read between the lines of every article they write...

Anyway, in today's edition there was an article about Warhammer and 40k and how computer games developers are _'fighting to bring the genre to the mainstream.'_

The guy likened the _'130 Games Workshop stores across Europe'_ to an Apple Store, _'except nobody is drawn to Games Workshop to appear fashionable.'_

Anyway, that article didn't really tell us much we, as those unfashionable _'fanatics'_, don't already know, and continually mixed Warhammer with Warhammer 40k, making it sound like the Eldar really are space elves and we gamers are complete fruitcakes. In short, he didn't really do the scene much in the way of improving its image. 

Which is a shame, because he then led onto a paragraph about how he'd tried to get some comments from GW who replied that they don't do interviews. He goes on to say that in fact, they don't do any marketing at all. Which is true, and is something I'd never noticed before, but that's probably because I live within the wargamming bubble. 

When I stopped to think about this statement, I realised it was actually quite amazing. Other than the odd war games fair, GW only advertise through their website, their own fairs and events and White Dwarf. *ALL* new gamers are brought in by word of mouth. It sounds like a recipe for disaster but then, if you think about it, they are probably saving millions on wooing people who aren't likely to stick with the hobby. Us wargammers come to the game because we want to and will probably stick with it far longer and provide a more stable long term investment. So in fact, it makes total sense.

this also raises the question, if they aren't trying to woo new customers, why aren't they looking after the ones they have better? Most companies do one or the other, GW seem to do very little in the way of either.

Anyway. I just wanted to share with you the fact GW had made it into the papers today and ask if anyone else had seen the article and what they thought of it?

Rev


----------



## nightfish (Feb 16, 2009)

I've never agreed with GW marketing policy. Make them seem a bit elitist. Ive always thought they need to get the game out. DoW showed just how popular the franchise can be.

The problem is they cannot afford to not woo new customers. A lot of the older generation seem to have been tossed by the wayside by GW with the streamlining of the rules and catering for kids. These are the ones with jobs and money, not the children asking their rents for another box set.


----------



## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

That GW dont do comercials is well known to me, thats basically the point of the stores. They sell stuff and do Demo Games to try to hook potential new customers up with their system.


All in all Im quite happy that they dont spend boatloads of cash on marketing, guess what that would do for the pricing...


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Is this the article your talking about? :wink: 

http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/games/862364-opening-up-the-world-of-warhammer 

You can read it over at their website.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Thing about GW is you cant compare it to anything else or apply the same rules as it is a completely unique company, it has no competition ( yeah i know thats not exactly true but bear with) there is not another company with the same business model in the whole world, there are similar companies that use parts of the GW business model but none of them are like for like and most of them if not all exist because of GW.

Anyway Marketing can be a huge money pit with very little proof that it works and when all said and done word of mouth by recommendation is still by far the most effective form of marketing available,traditional marketing such as adverts and such are mostly ignored,but when a person you trust or know tells you it was good you listen and are far more likely to buy something.


----------



## nightfish (Feb 16, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> but when a person you trust or know tells you it was good you listen and are far more likely to buy something.


Doesn't that depend on their oratory skills? 

Someone can tell me marmite is good, but i wont go and buy it.


----------



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

Doelago said:


> Is this the article your talking about? :wink:
> 
> http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/games/862364-opening-up-the-world-of-warhammer
> 
> You can read it over at their website.


That is indeed the article... I forgot about their website, I'd trust is as far as I could throw their newspaper 

Don't get me wrong, I'm also grateful they don't do marketing, it would indeed raise their prices. 

Also, I dunno about you guys, but I've found the image of modern kids having no money to be a total myth. Most of them have way more disposable income than me. My little cousin was p*ssed that he only got £160 birthday money!? I never would have had that much at 16


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

TheReverend said:


> My little cousin was p*ssed that he only got £160 birthday money!? I never would have had that much at 16


What the f***!? I usually dont get even the HALF of that! And I am happy with what I get. :shok:


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

'Like an Apple Store'

So, everyone knows that they need Warhammer, but nobody knows why?

I don't like the way that 40k is described as a spin-off of Fantasy. It's probably more popular, and has more popular computer games (Who really plays Battle March or WAR compared to the amount of people who play Dawn of War). They're completely different, except that both have plastic models and some interchangeable templates and terrain. Oh, and they both use dice and tape measures.

Midnight

EDIT: My ass is Fantasy heavily influenced by LotR. So, you have Orcs, Elves and Magic. So does almost every Swords and Sorcery game on the market! World of Warcraft and Elder Scrolls to name but two.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> 'Like an Apple Store'
> 
> So, everyone knows that they need Warhammer, but nobody knows why?
> 
> ...


And your point is?

40K is a spin off of Fantasy, Fantasy came first. The game is massively influenced by Tolkien, just like WOW, D&D and Elder Scrolls. 

I don't see as the article has done anything wrong, at all. They have given a pretty accurate description of what GW is and what they do and who plays the games.


----------



## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

I think one of the reasons GW don't do mainstream marketing is that it's quite a difficult thing to market this way. Could you describe 40k in a 30 second advert?

You can say it's a tabletop miniature wargame, but most people wouldn't really know what you meant, and even if you could explain that in 30 seconds it'd be even more difficult to make it seem appealing to a detached audience.

Hobbies in general aren't advertised, it's just something people find on their own, and when they do the people who make the equipment are there to supply them with the things they need to do the hobby.


----------



## aquatic_foible (Mar 17, 2010)

White Dwarf, the website, and the Stores_ are_ GW's marketing department - that's how they get the word out about the hobby and get us all hooked on plastic crack.

It was seeing an issue of WD in a newsagents, and a subsequent trip to the Belfast GW that got me into the hobby...

And besides, the 50k they save by not putting an advert on tv or in The Metro, is 50k that can be spent on developing the next plastic kit...


----------



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

Varakir said:


> Hobbies in general aren't advertised, it's just something people find on their own, and when they do the people who make the equipment are there to supply them with the things they need to do the hobby.


I guess you're right, I've never seen an advert for model trains or stamp collecting either...


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

TheReverend said:


> I guess you're right, I've never seen an advert for model trains or stamp collecting either...


well this is your lucky day , Bernard take it away


----------



## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

I think it's absolutely amazing that GW only get new consumers through word of mouth. If I were to start a store, and only run a website and the store itself, it wouldn't work. The only publicity I've ever seen on GW is an article from BBC News in Lincoln and the on the Guardian(?) website/newspaper. 

GW are employing some of the best people working on their games. Shame they can't do the same for the movies...


----------



## deathwatch27 (Dec 30, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> And your point is?
> 
> 40K is a spin off of Fantasy, Fantasy came first. The game is massively influenced by Tolkien, just like WOW, D&D and Elder Scrolls.
> 
> I don't see as the article has done anything wrong, at all. They have given a pretty accurate description of what GW is and what they do and who plays the games.


Please someone correct me if i'm wrong but wasen't warhammer originally ment to be lotr but GW failed to get the license. So at the last minute once a lot of minatures were already in production the name was changed. I even recall a set of lead lotr hobbits models that I believe were made by GW?


----------



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

bitsandkits said:


> well this is your lucky day , Bernard take it away
> YouTube - HORNBY TRAINS TV ADVERT 1980


That almost made me go and get a train set.... almost....


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

TheReverend said:


> That almost made me go and get a train set.... almost....


well GW have some experience in this area....

http://youtu.be/uozIWK51x58
http://youtu.be/FY_YRatOInA

plus lets not forget DOW pulled in a number of folks as did lord of the rings ,maybe not in the expected TV/radio/billboard/magazine method route, but big liceens and crossing into other markets draws people to the core hobby alot of the time.


----------



## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

> There are two universes: the original Warhammer is heavily influenced by the figurine game of The Lord Of The Rings (which creator Games Workshop also now licenses). Since 1987, a spin-off sci-fi version of the concept has existed in Warhammer 40,000, where elves become eldars and orcs become, well, orcs.


Am I the only one struggling to contain my nerdrage at everything thats wrong in that paragraph?


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Calamari said:


> Am I the only one struggling to contain my nerdrage at everything thats wrong in that paragraph?


Not really, you are aware that LoTR has existed as an RPG and in other forms for longer than GW has been around?

The original Warhammer and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay were based heavily on Tolkien's Middle Earth setting. I read an interview ages ago from one of the designers who said that Fantasy's setting was a darker version of what Tolkien had created, the same setting but with a brutal edge. 
At the time they used the term 'grubby fantasy'. 

So, no. I'm not suffering any form of nerd rage, the article has it pretty much spot on.


----------



## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

I know that LOTR has done everything before like some kind of PG rule 34.

I was talking more about "Eldars" and such And I only brought that up for lulz don't read to much into it lol.


----------



## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

the 40k universe does have abit of the 'based off of' fantasy feel. with the exception of space marines really.

IG = empire
CE = high elves
DE = Dark Elves
Necrons = Tomb Kings
Orks = OnG

to name the main references for a few armies.

And Tolkien's middle earth practically invented the Fantasy Genere, before then, it was known as folk Lore. Since Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, goblins, all existed in multiple 'folk lores', one of which i know ALL those existed in for sure though is the Norse legends.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> the 40k universe does have abit of the 'based off of' fantasy feel. with the exception of space marines really.
> 
> IG = empire
> CE = high elves
> ...


40K can't help but have a 'based off of' fantasy feel, it is based off of Fantasy. 
When 40K started it was Warhammer Fantasy in space, that was the entire concept. It's something they have done a lot to play down more recently, starting with the extinction of the Squats (Space Dwarfs) and the separation of 40K and Fantasy universes. The parallels will always be there though, they can't help but be there.


----------



## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

GW advertise through the medium of Youtube and the like, a pretty good way of doing it. From what I can tell, the fans of Games workshop seek people like us, the Internet is amazing. Also, we are helping them by producing new fans that may come onto the site. 

When you think about it GW's advertising medium is forums like this!


----------



## SonofVulkan (Apr 14, 2010)

It's obvious that this David Jenkins who wrote the review in the Metro has never been in contact with a GW product in his life before he did the research for his article. To me it sounds like he was pissed-off because GW wouldn't give him an interview.

And everyone knows orcs became orks, not orcs.......tut.


----------



## El Mariachi (Jun 22, 2008)

Calamari said:


> Am I the only one struggling to contain my nerdrage at everything thats wrong in that paragraph?


I think you must be pretty lucky in life if something as trivial as that causes you to get angry at a statement, which is completely and utterly acceptable to the layman who knows very little about 40k and were they interested in finding out more, would probably still agree with that statement.


----------



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

yeah, i guess I just wanted to share this with you all as GW doesn't get into the main stream press that often, and when it does it's usually in this sort of light. But it's good to have your suspicions that the non-gamers see you and your world as ultra geeky 

no point getting upset though


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I'm a little annoyed that they relegate it as only being interesting to "Nerds". Warhammer is enjoyed by every kind of person - as an example there are two players at my local club, one of whom is 6'6", plays Rugby professionally, and has pints on his regular nights out with other mates. About as far from "geek" as you can get, really. The other one is a mechanic who builds/restores/races his own cars. Again, not really fitting the "Nerd" stereotype there. I do care work with the Elderly. We have someone who does a 9-5 office job in a financial company. We have a taxi driver, students, kids and software engineers.

Warhammer is one hobby that is incredibly diverse in the people who follow it, at least in my experience. To see it labelled publicly as the preserve of people who live in dark rooms lit by their 40" monitor is a little aggravating.


----------



## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

TheReverend said:


> ...likened the _'130 Games Workshop stores across Europe'_ to an Apple Store


See, that got me thinking...and much caffeine later, this was the result:










:biggrin:


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Sethis said:


> I'm a little annoyed that they relegate it as only being interesting to "Nerds". Warhammer is enjoyed by every kind of person - as an example there are two players at my local club, one of whom is 6'6", plays Rugby professionally, and has pints on his regular nights out with other mates. About as far from "geek" as you can get, really. The other one is a mechanic who builds/restores/races his own cars. Again, not really fitting the "Nerd" stereotype there. I do care work with the Elderly. We have someone who does a 9-5 office job in a financial company. We have a taxi driver, students, kids and software engineers.
> 
> Warhammer is one hobby that is incredibly diverse in the people who follow it, at least in my experience. To see it labelled publicly as the preserve of people who live in dark rooms lit by their 40" monitor is a little aggravating.


The problem is GW's up and down the country are filled with the unwashed hordes of Geekdom, it's an unavoidable fact. There are others who play the games that don't fit the stereotype but that doesn't stop the hobby being one that appeals most to nerds and geeks. 
I'm quite at home with my nerd side, it's never really bothered me as a label despite the fact I don't really fit the mold.

Walk into any GW and the vast majority of kids and adults in there are enjoying the only form of social interaction they ever really have, a few may have girlfriends, some may have been to a pub. But the closest most of the have ever come to seeing a pair of jugs is a porno they found in the woods.
Wargamers *are* geeks, its just the way things are.


----------



## deathwatch27 (Dec 30, 2009)

Geeks have come along way since the 80's "revenge of the nerds" film stereotype we now have skateboards, mountain bikes, snow boards even david & golith (bright trendy female clothes shop) sell hoodys and t-shirts with "I love nerds" emblazened across the front. So if anything here peeps.. We.... (best oscar face)... Are... Fasionable AAAARRRRGGGHH!!!!


----------



## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

deathwatch27 said:


> even david & golith (bright trendy female clothes shop) sell hoodys and t-shirts with "I love nerds" emblazened across the front.


I don't mind being a geek or whatever, but please don't associate us in anyway with Todd Goldman :/


----------



## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

GW isnt the only company not to advertise. For example Ferrari dont advertise.

GW have over time done a form of marketing, where they allowed games like space crusade and heroquest to be released by other companies into normal shops and then filled the games with adverts for games workshop.

I think they realised in the end that it simply wasnt necessary and they dont get anything back by advertising.


----------



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

Maidel said:


> GW isnt the only company not to advertise. For example Ferrari dont advertise.


So playing 40k is just as cool as driving a Farrari?  I could probably have brought one with the money I've spent on plastic crack over the years...


----------



## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

TheReverend said:


> So playing 40k is just as cool as driving a Farrari?  I could probably have brought one with the money I've spent on plastic crack over the years...


I ceased to worry about 'cool' when I hit puberty. I knew I was never going to be, so I didnt bother trying. :biggrin:


But GW and Ferrari do have a lot in common, they are both niche markets, they are both synonomous with their own genre (say super car and the first thing people think about is ferraris, say wargamming and if the person has any clue the first thing they say is warhammer)


----------

