# Can't Pick Between SW & BA



## Rascon (Aug 31, 2010)

So I posted a similar thread over on Dakka, but it kind of...devolved, and I wanted to get some fresh perspectives.

I'm fairly new to 40K, though I have a little experience playing with Vanilla Space Marines. I've discovered that I really like an aggressive, close assault army profile. I'm not a Win-At-All-Costs kind of guy; I'd say I'm 60% hobby-oriented, 40% gameplay-oriented.

I just can't pick between Blood Angels and Space Wolves. I like Space Wolf fluff marginally better, but BA fluff would allow me to do a DIY chapter and largely ignore most of what I don't like about them. 

I like everything about the BA army list except for the HQ units. I don't do Counts-As special characters, and one of my self-imposed rules is that I've got to run a Captain/Chapter Master in a list. BA Captains are terrible. Everything else? Great. Jump packers are probably among my favorite models.

I like a lot of the SW army list, except for Thunderwolf Cavalry. I love their statline, don't get me wrong, but SMs riding wolves into battle strikes me as one of the stupidest things I've come across in 40K. Unfortunately, TWC are, in my opinion, the best assault troops in their codex. However, they have great troops and absolutely perfect vanilla HQ options for my illogical Herohammer side.

I've made this decision about twenty times over the past couple weeks, and always end up reversing it, and then reversing it again, and again...etc. Just can't pick.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Sounds like the answer is as follows. D6. Sw on a 4+

My suggestion though. Use Space wolves and use converted chaos juggernoughts as thunderwolf cavalry. Plastic robot wolf models. Win Win.


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## hippypancake (Jul 14, 2010)

I say SW too also you could run a 13th company, also their entire army revolves around cc so honestly TWC is not needed

BA are just twilight fanbois with nipples -_-


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## Wax (Jan 6, 2010)

hippypancake said:


> BA are just twilight fanbois with nipples -_-


Ignore this man. Space Puppies are nothing but furries.


EDIT: On a serious note, I am bias, but I would recommend BAs If you hate BA Captains so much try bending your HQ rule a little and Taking Captain Tycho. He's not that far off from Vanilla Captains (save his preferred enemy and sternguard ammo); or taking a Reclusiarch instead of a Captain. A great assault force multiplier, (but lacks the Arty armor and relic blade that I suspect you are actually hankering for).

Like I said, I have a bias.


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## Rascon (Aug 31, 2010)

Wax_Assassin said:


> Ignore this man. Space Puppies are nothing but furries.
> 
> 
> EDIT: On a serious note, I am bias, but I would recommend BAs If you hate BA Captains so much try bending your HQ rule a little and Taking Captain Tycho. He's not that far off from Vanilla Captains (save his preferred enemy and sternguard ammo); or taking a Reclusiarch instead of a Captain. A great assault force multiplier, (but lacks the Arty armor and relic blade that I suspect you are actually hankering for).
> ...


Arty armor and RB are exactly what I'm hankering for in my BA HQ, yeah. I really have no idea why they don't have access to them. If they did, this wouldn't even be a question, as sad as it is.

Of course, they still wouldn't be as good as a Wolf Lord, but at least it'd be a little closer. Wolf Lords and their Sagas...hard to pass up. 

Reclusiarch might be included, but Captain's necessary. It's dumb, it's not effective - with BAs, at least - but necessary.


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## Commander Aurellius (Jun 11, 2009)

If I can be completely honest, I would do a CSM army. You could pick a super fluffy Mono-God list. There characters would also rape shit up. No arty armor or iron halo but +D6 attacks with added benefits and sweet DP models, its a win win


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

or u could do orks tyranids you dont have to do just marines i didnt start with an imperium army and have not got one since though i do have orks tyranids chaos and now tau also been in the hobby bout a year


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## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

I have to agree with Aurellius, go CSM. The new Daemon Prince model is so brain-bustingly awesome.

But assuming you don't see the true glory that is Chaos, go with Space Wolves. Due to your requirement of using a Captain as an HQ, Blood Angels will be underwhelming. You can do lots of cool stuff with the Wolf Lord, so i'd go with them.


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

Rascon said:


> I just can't pick between Blood Angels and Space Wolves. I like Space Wolf fluff marginally better, but BA fluff would allow me to do a DIY chapter and largely ignore most of what I don't like about them.


Why can't you use the Space Wolf codex for a DIY chapter and ignore the bits you don't like (thunderwolf cavalry) in there?


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## PanzerPig (Apr 15, 2008)

Azezel said:


> Why can't you use the Space Wolf codex for a DIY chapter and ignore the bits you don't like (thunderwolf cavalry) in there?


This is what I'm doing, and is a lot of fun.


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## hippypancake (Jul 14, 2010)

Azezel said:


> Why can't you use the Space Wolf codex for a DIY chapter and ignore the bits you don't like (thunderwolf cavalry) in there?


I also do that but run a very fluffy 13th Company,
no bloodclaws and lots and lots of mark of the wulfen

also to everyone saying to choose CSM, nids or orks. He asked specifically for help on BA or SW maybe he never wanted to play those armies to begin with? Of course I'm not saying that it was unnecessary as maybe you could change his mind...but just throw in your opinion of BA or SW as well maybe?


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## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

use them both and name the chapter the Space Angel Blood Wolves


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## hippypancake (Jul 14, 2010)

Farseer_Iowan said:


> use them both and name the chapter the Space Angel Blood Wolves


I actually have a list posted in my GW of my "Blood Wolves" the Army Builder made a mistake and listed a Rune Priest as also being a Venerable Dreadnaught :victory:k:


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

hippypancake said:


> I also do that but run a very fluffy 13th Company,
> no bloodclaws and lots and lots of mark of the wulfen
> 
> also to everyone saying to choose CSM, nids or orks. He asked specifically for help on BA or SW maybe he never wanted to play those armies to begin with? Of course I'm not saying that it was unnecessary as maybe you could change his mind...but just throw in your opinion of BA or SW as well maybe?



kk heres my opinion i dont like the imperium period but ill give some advice space wolves have the best monsterous creature killer in the world the jaws of the wild wolf if your fighting chaos chaos deamons or anything with alot of mcs get space wolves


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## Rascon (Aug 31, 2010)

Azezel said:


> Why can't you use the Space Wolf codex for a DIY chapter and ignore the bits you don't like (thunderwolf cavalry) in there?


Largely because, much like the BT codex, a lot of the Space Wolf codex simply doesn't make sense in the context of a DIY chapter. It's all rather...wolf-oriented. 



hippypancake said:


> also to everyone saying to choose CSM, nids or orks. He asked specifically for help on BA or SW maybe he never wanted to play those armies to begin with? Of course I'm not saying that it was unnecessary as maybe you could change his mind...but just throw in your opinion of BA or SW as well maybe?


This. I have a lot of SM models, and exactly zero CSM, Nids, or Orks, and no interest in playing any of them even if I was willing to buy an entire army all over again.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

yea you sound more like a Khorne Bezerker player. i can just visualize another blood crazy Khorne Follower who yells "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" as you roll your to wound dice with your zerkers. 
Boom take that moderators non constructive info for this post Question.
Jk moderators i like you guys. but anyways kid i would go World Eaters Chaos Space Marine, but if your heart is seat on worshiping the corpse god then go Space Wolves their models are badass looking.


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

Even if you feal you cant do a DIY chapter with wolves... and I cant see why, you can certainly ignor the thunderwolf cav and use the bits you like.


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## Evil beaver2 (Feb 3, 2009)

Chaos!!

Failing that, wolves would be my choice, they look better in my opinion. Both are competitive so I would choose the one that looks better/has better fluff to you.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Ok... He wants wolves or emo marines, that's it. 

I would go wolves. Why? Because they arn't egg sucking emo vamp pussies.


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

Rascon said:


> Largely because, much like the BT codex, a lot of the Space Wolf codex simply doesn't make sense in the context of a DIY chapter. It's all rather...wolf-oriented.





Col. Schafer said:


> Even if you feal you cant do a DIY chapter with wolves... and I cant see why, you can certainly ignor the thunderwolf cav and use the bits you like.


Hell knows I've no love for Space Wolves. I had to ration my daily allowance of the phrase 'the most retarded thing I've seen today' when I leafed through that codex.

Still, I fail to see why you can't use that 'dex with your own fluff.

Forget Thunderwolf Cavalry (to aid in forgetting, try drinking a bottle of scotch, or bleach) and then, much like GW just took regular Marines and gave them silly names, you keep the Marines and ditch the silly names. instead of 'Long Fangs' you call them 'Devestators', instead of 'Rune Priests' you call them 'Librarians' and instead of 'Blood Claws' you call them 'Assault Marines', instead of 'Grey Hunters', you call them 'Tactical Marines'.

You get to use the codex you want without all the... Well, wolf.


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## Rascon (Aug 31, 2010)

Azezel said:


> Hell knows I've no love for Space Wolves. I had to ration my daily allowance of the phrase 'the most retarded thing I've seen today' when I leafed through that codex.
> 
> Still, I fail to see why you can't use that 'dex with your own fluff.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that works until you have to go, "Yeah, my Tacticals get Counter-Attack." "Why?" "Because they're Grey Hunters." 

Also, I'm not entirely sure the SW codex is the one I do actually want, as they're not a CC army. They're a shooting army.


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## hippypancake (Jul 14, 2010)

Azezel you are aware that Bloodclaws arent RAS they are more akin to scouts...with better armour...and better in cc

Anyway he is right you can just change the names of equipment if you want.


wowowow did you just say that SW aren't a cc army?! :shok: what are you talking about one of their troop choices have four attacks on the charge! SW are a cc army they just arent PURE cc army, they can do other things as Ahab said below.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yeah, that's about as true as saying tyranids have great troop transports. SW are good at almost everything.


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## Rascon (Aug 31, 2010)

hippypancake said:


> wowowow did you just say that SW aren't a cc army?! :shok: what are you talking about one of their troop choices have four attacks on the charge! SW are a cc army they just arent PURE cc army, they can do other things as Ahab said below.


I did say that, yes. They're better standing and shooting than they are playing for assault. That, to me, is not a CC army, that's a shooty army that can hold its own if it gets charged.

Plus, they're a little FOTM at the moment, aren't they?


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## hippypancake (Jul 14, 2010)

FOTM?

I honestly thought it was the other way around they were an assaulting army that can stand and shoot if need be it


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## Rascon (Aug 31, 2010)

Flavor of the month. SW aren't exactly underrepresented...anywhere, basically.

And I've yet to see any decent SW assault lists. They're usually built like vanilla SM lists; a lot of shooty elements, and maybe one rock assault/counterassault unit. Substitute TWC for TH/SS Terminators, and you've got yourself a vanilla list with better troops. That really seems to be all that SW is.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

It depends upon your play style but I have fielded SW assault armies that have crushed CC armies like the BA. TWC armies have a hell of a punch.


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## hippypancake (Jul 14, 2010)

Rascon said:


> Flavor of the month. SW aren't exactly underrepresented...anywhere, basically.
> 
> And I've yet to see any decent SW assault lists. They're usually built like vanilla SM lists; a lot of shooty elements, and maybe one rock assault/counterassault unit. Substitute TWC for TH/SS Terminators, and you've got yourself a vanilla list with better troops. That really seems to be all that SW is.


I run 6 packs of 10 Bloodclaws in rhinos...idk how that is in anyway shooty


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

That also inst in anyway competitive... But doesn't matter.


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## hippypancake (Jul 14, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> That also inst in anyway competitive... But doesn't matter.


but it is SO MUCH FUN xD


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## Rascon (Aug 31, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> It depends upon your play style but I have fielded SW assault armies that have crushed CC armies like the BA. TWC armies have a hell of a punch.


And that's the problem. I think TWC are retarded. Wolves being ridden by Space Marines. If they had a unit who ran around the battlefield handing out candy and hugs, I'd use that before TWC, as it somehow manages to be a less stupid concept.


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

Rascon said:


> And that's the problem. I think TWC are retarded. Wolves being ridden by Space Marines. If they had a unit who ran around the battlefield handing out candy and hugs, I'd use that before TWC, as it somehow manages to be a less stupid concept.


I could not agree more.

But then, the rest of the Codex is only .1% less moronic than TWC.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Then use a different model. If you don't like wolves use giant horses or bloodcrushers, hell, you can use big ass goats, it doesn't matter. Really, if you dislike the codex so much you probably should go with the emo marines.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

You say Emo like the Blood Angels are sad to be motherfuckingspacevampires. They are not. 

Make Psycho-Tycho you're Army leader, he's a tactical genius like no other. 

"What should we do Captain Psycho-Tycho?"
" KILL THEM ALL"
"ok, what sort of tactics should we go for , maybe drop pod assault?"
" KILL THEM ALL"
"When should we attack"
"NOW NOW NOW KILL THEM ALL"

Who doesn't want that guy in charge. 

Aramoro


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Then use a different model. If you don't like wolves use giant horses or bloodcrushers, hell, you can use big ass goats, it doesn't matter. Really, if you dislike the codex so much you probably should go with the emo marines.


Emo marines? :shok:
Pfft! Every SM chapter would be eating out of choas' hands, not just a few of them, if it wasnt for Sanguinius.
We drop in and kick the shit out of everyone, to their faces, we dont just stand there and shoot them  We can hardly be callen emo-ish.

The SW are heretics anyway because they dont follow the teachings of Guillieman at all, They should be exterminated 

But i do think Canis Wolfborn is kinda cool, TWC too, I Like the idea of Wolf riding SM's

SGMAlice


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

The wolves don't ride the marines.... Just thought you should know.

As for the wall, you had help. And sang wasn't an emo, they became emos the moment he kicked the bucket.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

i said' wolf riding SM's' not ' wolf riding a SM' :shok:

I wasn't refering to the Wall, i was refering to Horus

Define 'emo' for me please because i fail to see how they are; Regardless of our Primarchs death.

SGMAlice


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Sorry, didn't have my glasses on. Thought it said wolves.

He got his face kicked out hisass by Horus.

Emo= emotional. They are a legion of pissy little bastards in golden nipple armor. "oh our primarch got the royal shit kicked out of him, boohoo" get the fuck over it. Fucking prissy little turds. 

Back on topic( I don't want to turn his thread into a bitch fit on both our parts). The reason I say you should go with the emo marines is because they do cc fairly well and you won't have to deal with some of those choices you don't like.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I think it's mostly just you having a bitch fest to be honest. It's exactly your kind of immaturity that really puts me off the 40K fan base. You're basically a disgrace to the hobby as a whole by being so utterly repugnant. There are others in this thread I know.

Just an aside. 

If you like Jump Packs, play BA, if you don't want a lot of Jump Packers play SW. Seems fairly clear. 

Aramoro


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

I'd go by the main question: which army do you like the appearance/style of more? That's the one I'd use. 

They're both very powerful, so I wouldn't worry about competitiveness. Overall, I'd say that Blood Angels are a bit more powerful, but Space Wolves are definitely more cost effective. It all depends on how elite you want your army to be. 

Personally, I like redundancy, which is why I play the Space Wolves.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Yeah, no bitch fitting lol
Your definition of Emo is the same as mine, I still fail to see the concurrence; No crying or whining or.... yeah the golden nipples are kinda weird.
But we do get pissed off enough and go crazy enough to kill anybody because of that and the Emperors death, and the fall of the marines who turned to chaos.
In short: We Get Mad Not Sad 

The Emperor was only able to defeat Horus because of the rent Sanguinius made in Hours' armour - thats what i was refering to 

I'd agree that they are probably the best choice given the limits of the units you dont like

SGMAlice

P.S.


Aramoro said:


> I think it's mostly just you having a bitch fest to be honest. It's exactly your kind of immaturity that really puts me off the 40K fan base. You're basically a disgrace to the hobby as a whole by being so utterly repugnant. There are others in this thread I know.
> 
> 
> 
> Aramoro


Someone aint had his cookies today


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

SGMAlice said:


> Someone aint had his cookies today


And? I really like my cookies. 

Aramoro


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

@ aramoro, 
we all have our faullts, I am aware I am immature- I am also aware I can be a bit of a hypocrite. Make you a deal, you plop yourself off that horse and I will work on my little immaturity streak and maybe, just maybe, we can all sit down and have some cookies.


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## hippypancake (Jul 14, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> @ aramoro,
> we all have our faullts, I am aware I am immature- I am also aware I can be a bit of a hypocrite. Make you a deal, you plop yourself off that horse and I will work on my little immaturity streak and maybe, just maybe, we can all sit down and have some cookies.


If I had room I woulda sigged it...anyway

I was talking to the manager at my flgs and actually out of the marine players we have in the store (roughly 78) over half play BA and I'm the only one that plays SW...then I went to the GW by my house and there are roughly double the BA players that there are SW players. So when it comes to FotM I must say that BA have it more than wolves.

Also it's not really Space Marines riding wolves...its more Space Marines riding a wolf the size of a fucking rhino that has fangs the size of the rhinos horns...therefore I think they are pretty fucking terrifying to see in the field...but that's just me

and finally the emo marine debate...I wouldn't really call them emo as much as PMS marines. They will be fine and dandy, but if they so much as think about their primarchs death OMFG KILL THEM ALL! I wouldn't be saying the Wolves are heretics when you have marines that pretty much turn into Khorne Berzerkers in combat :grin:

but I will say this, this is all just my 2 cents in the bucket!


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Khorne Berserkers?! :shok:
I fail to see how you came to that conclusion. Such a comparison, while accurate to a degree, is pointless; As we are not Khorne Berserkers, we dont worship any chaos god and we do follow the teachings of Guilleman.

Your either twisting my words and the actions of the BA to :
1. Be an ass 
2. As some sort of defence for said behaviour :grin:

Heretics all! But i've never been one to follow tradition either, I merely point it out to further describe the differences between the choices.

SGMAlice


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Or your a BA fan who refuses to see that they are on the brink of chaos... Which is entirely opinion based so eh, not really much room to ar... Well a lot of room on both sides, really, but this is more of a fluff debate. Just leave the bitching about the details of the fluff for the fluff section. Unless of course he wants to hear it, but that is entirely up to him.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

I guess i did get a bit carried didnt i :dunno:

Fluff for the Fluff god and all that.

SGMAlice


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## SonofVulkan (Apr 14, 2010)

What do you prefer to paint, red or light blue(grey)? It's no good picking an army you don't enjoy painting. But then again you could paint Space Wolves red and call them Blood Wolf's or Sanguine Coyote's or something. Sorry not being much help here. Maybe have a read of a couple of Black Library books and see which army pulls you in. Hope my rambling helps...


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Rascon said:


> So I posted a similar thread over on Dakka, but it kind of...devolved, and I wanted to get some fresh perspectives.
> 
> I'm fairly new to 40K, though I have a little experience playing with Vanilla Space Marines. I've discovered that I really like an aggressive, close assault army profile. I'm not a Win-At-All-Costs kind of guy; I'd say I'm 60% hobby-oriented, 40% gameplay-oriented.
> 
> ...


space marines are never truly a CC army if you think about it. the blood angels are actually, currently, better equiped for a more CC oriented army though, as someone who plays SW, they play best as a combined shooting and CC army.

Grey hunters, though, imo, are probably one of if not THE best troop choice in the game. Wolf standard gives rerolls of 1s on hit wound and armor saves for 1 assault phase, oh and if you have MotW it gives you a reroll on that too so you always come out with more attacks that combat. the way I use Grey hunters depends on the game type. I love their ability to rapid fire, since that makes them better at holding objectives, just let the enemy charge them and they get their full attacks still. 

Blood claws and their various forms (swift and sky claws) are more CC oriented, with their special rules, easier to kill, but hit the enemy much harder. 

Wolf guard in termie armor with base setup can do some nasty work too, assault 2 storm bolter and a power weapon, throw a TH or PF or two in the mix for those annoying high T / armor and your good, and they come out super cheap.

TWC suck, to be honest, they do some ok damage, but with only a 3+ armor they die too easily, and their upgrades come at a very hefty price.

Wolf Scouts are, by far, one of my favored units though, cheap, effective, always make their points back for me against any player who doesnt avoid the table edges like a coward. 

But ultimately: do something Xeno or chaos if you want something that is dominant in CC that doesnt shoot well. Because SM all shoot well.


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## Rascon (Aug 31, 2010)

SonofVulkan said:


> What do you prefer to paint, red or light blue(grey)? It's no good picking an army you don't enjoy painting. But then again you could paint Space Wolves red and call them Blood Wolf's or Sanguine Coyote's or something. Sorry not being much help here. Maybe have a read of a couple of Black Library books and see which army pulls you in. Hope my rambling helps...


Yeah, I don't like painting either of those colors. If I did Space Wolves, it'd be a Lost Company. If I did BA, it'd be a successor chapter. If I could do one that thought all the, "Oh, woe is me!" BS over Sanguinius was in fact BS, even better.

Neither the BA nor the SW particularly pull me in. Raven Guard and Alpha Legion are probably my favorites, but I dislike both the vanilla and the CSM codices.


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## foulacy (Nov 24, 2007)

Buy Shrike and make Shrikes Wing? Hard and fast hitting assault squad.

Or order Captain Korydae from Forgeworld as he allows you to take Assault marines as troops? The SM Codex is only as lame as you make it, use your imagination. Its better then every SM player buying the BA or SW codex and just calling there marines counts as or some succesor chapters because they want a newer codex with some better rules.


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## Rascon (Aug 31, 2010)

foulacy said:


> Buy Shrike and make Shrikes Wing? Hard and fast hitting assault squad.
> 
> Or order Captain Korydae from Forgeworld as he allows you to take Assault marines as troops? The SM Codex is only as lame as you make it, use your imagination. Its better then every SM player buying the BA or SW codex and just calling there marines counts as or some succesor chapters because they want a newer codex with some better rules.



Shrike's Wing can't really be done well. There's a limit to how many assault squads you can cram into a vanilla list. 

And if I went with BA or SW, I'd be playing a BA successor or a SW lost company, not just doing a counts-as. Successors are perfectly acceptable for BA, last I checked, as they're mentioned in the codex.


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