# Who/what universe can take WH40K ?



## Doom wolf (Oct 10, 2014)

The title say it all.

This universe is so massive, over the top that Iv'e yet to see an universe more powerful than this one. 

Star Trek had heavy support, but I've yet to see convincing argument, since number, rthlessness and space are killings factors for high tech.

Personnally, Marvel 616 and DC maybe could be honest and strong contender, but I've got doubt about this anyway.

Please, keep things civils. Thanks !


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Whichever has the biggest rabid unintelligent fans; 40K at the minute is right up there.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Draw up some convincing numbers for WH40k naval weapon power.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Right, the trouble with this sort of thing is that there is no right answer to this sort of thing. Like Vaz said, it really just comes down to which universe has the most obnoxious and numerous fans on whichever forum threads like this pop-up. 

That being said, Jedi are totally better than psykers and John-117 is better than any space marine evarz.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

the Dallek from Doctor who could probably take it on.
but yeah, there realy is no. use in comparing different universes. since they are completely different realities.


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## R_Squared (Mar 24, 2013)

In a baryonic universe, the xeelee win. Job done.


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

are we talking the ENTIRE 40K universe? As in All the races decided to get together and not kill each other to kill another universe? or Just the Imperium of Man?


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Vaz said:


> Whichever has the biggest rabid unintelligent fans; 40K at the minute is right up there.


You clearly haven't met Standard Trekkie's. Whose standard arguments involve failing to understand the meaning of the words lower limit and basic thermodynamics.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> You clearly haven't met Standard Trekkie's. Whose standard arguments involve failing to understand the meaning of the words lower limit and basic thermodynamics.


Go on.


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## Doom wolf (Oct 10, 2014)

OK, I tried and it failed miserably and I learned. 

My mistake, so forgive me everyone, I just tempted fate out of ignorance.

Maybe the mods can lock the tread now. :biggrin:


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

hailene said:


> Go on.


It's easier for you to look it up, it get a headache from thinking about it.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

The Nac Mac Feegle would kick the shit out of all the other universes combined.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Who do you think would win in a melee, Wolverine or a Space Marine?


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

ntaw said:


> Who do you think would win in a melee, Wolverine or a Space Marine?


Whoever wins, Spongebob is taking him on.


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## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

Pretty much any universe that allows wishes to be made. 

Aladin could destroy 40K simply by wishing 40K out of existence. 

In a fair fight.... Maybe the Dragon Ball Z universe, without their one wish, simply because they get stupid powerful and would slowly kill everyone uncontested. All depends on how Psykers would effect a Saiyan.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

ntaw said:


> Who do you think would win in a melee, Wolverine or a Space Marine?


pre or post Admantine wolverine? What chapter or legion space marine?


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Reaper45 said:


> pre or post Admantine wolverine? What chapter or legion space marine?


Definitely Adamantine Wolverine and a marine of any Chapter. Bonus marks for variety in your response.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

ntaw said:


> Definitely Adamantine Wolverine and a marine of any Chapter. Bonus marks for variety in your response.


There's a good question, Wolverine isn't a sluggish opponent he's got some speed and animal instincts for danger.

I'm thinking in a fight A world eater, Space wolf and blood angel would have the best chance of being able to take him. Followed by raven guard and night lords.

The biggest thing when facing wolverine is that you need speed or savagery on your side, otherwise death of a thousand cuts is going to happen.


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## LordNecross (Aug 14, 2014)

DBZ is stupid powerful. You would need an OP Psyker to stand a chance. I think the mind would be their greatest weakness, simply because Goku as strong as he is, he is a complete dumbass, martially smart, but not intelligent in any other aspect.

Also as for Wishing. DBZ does have limits, the dragons can only kill what the dragon ball creator themselves can kill. I remember them trying to wish a badguy away and getting a big, "Uhh...thats beyond my power..."

As for Wolverine, He has practical Immortality, Depends what you hit him with. But Warhammer 40k does have the benefit that Adamantium is not actually much of an impediment for their weapons(Think about it, Even chainswords get Adamantium teeth), so technically Wolverine could lose his adamantium as it gets slagged by plasma and such. It really comes down to Wolverines quickness.


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## R_Squared (Mar 24, 2013)

The Xeelee used Closed timelike curves to re-engineer their own evolution during the moments shortly after the big bang, fold space and time as if it's paper, and exist in and around the event horizons of super blackholes.
They also re-shaped the universe to create a tear in the fabric of reality allowing them to move between many different universes, whilst manipulating the physical constants of those universes to suit themselves.
They would kick Wolverine in the nuts, and he would stay down. :grin:


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

R_Squared said:


> The Xeelee used Closed timelike curves to re-engineer their own evolution during the moments shortly after the big bang, fold space and time as if it's paper, and exist in and around the event horizons of super blackholes.
> They also re-shaped the universe to create a tear in the fabric of reality allowing them to move between many different universes, whilst manipulating the physical constants of those universes to suit themselves.
> They would kick Wolverine in the nuts, and he would stay down. :grin:


But what about 40k? 

How would they stand up to the also reality bending power of the c'tan and chaos gods? :grin:


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## R_Squared (Mar 24, 2013)

It depends on how well the Chaos pantheon and C'tan would react to being hit in the goolies with a giant cluster of super massive black holes. :grin:


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I'm a huge fan of Marvel and Wolverine, but people are saying Wolverine is fast and he's got that going for him. Yes he's fast, but he's not really superhuman fast, just very agile and at peak athletic ability you could say. You all seem to be basing this on that Space Marines are tough but slow. You couldn't be more wrong. Astartes are _fast_, unimaginably fast. There was another post on here somewhere, where someone provided several different quotes of an Astartes in motion from a normal humans perspective, and they were all pretty much that it was almost as if they blinked, and everyone was dead.

I short, I would rate Astartes as faster than Wolverine, as others have said, adamantium isn't uncommon amongst the chapters. Sure he can regenerate, but I imagine marines could quite easily come up with a way to put him down for good.


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## LordNecross (Aug 14, 2014)

R_Squared said:


> It depends on how well the Chaos pantheon and C'tan would react to being hit in the goolies with a giant cluster of super massive black holes. :grin:


Probably handle it very well. Especially the Chaos gods, that don't follow laws of the universe at all.

The C'Tan would probably need to be super charged to handle that, as at their most powerful they were never Galaxy busters, but they probably have the potential to be if they ate enough. (which is doubtful)


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

:laugh: I can't belive serious thought was put into my Wolverine idea. I did say melee though, thinking weapons would be out of it. Yes Logan has claws, but: Astartes.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Well, 40k has the Perpetuals which at least shows an almost limitless capacity to create shitty contrived deus ex machinae; the strongest tech of all.


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## R_Squared (Mar 24, 2013)

LordNecross said:


> Probably handle it very well. Especially the Chaos gods, that don't follow laws of the universe at all....


Ok, how about a giant loop of cosmic string millions of light years across, spinning at close to light speed, ripping open the fabric of space time in the eye of terror, obliterating the the milky way and destroying every mortal and immortal creature?
Hard to be a Chaos God with no mortal souls to feed on. :grin:


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## LordNecross (Aug 14, 2014)

R_Squared said:


> Ok, how about a giant loop of cosmic string millions of light years across, spinning at close to light speed, ripping open the fabric of space time in the eye of terror, obliterating the the milky way and destroying every mortal and immortal creature?
> Hard to be a Chaos God with no mortal souls to feed on. :grin:


by the very nature of immortal, means unkillable. so every mortal race would die. The Choas Gods would not die, but instead cease to be, as Balance is restored in the Warp.

This is also assuming the have the ability to affect a Universe that may function on different laws. One of the biggest factor's in these cross Universe battles, its usually ignored, but its quite important factor for god-like beings.


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## R_Squared (Mar 24, 2013)

LordNecross said:


> by the very nature of immortal, means unkillable. so every mortal race would die. The Choas Gods would not die, but instead cease to be, as Balance is restored in the Warp.....


That's what I meant, unless the Xeelee have some secret kink which keeps Slaanesh drip fed.

It's difficult to imagine what would give a race of hyper intelligent xenos capable of manipulating spacetime defects and Bose-Einstein Condensates a hard on though.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Angel of Blood said:


> I'm a huge fan of Marvel and Wolverine, but people are saying Wolverine is fast and he's got that going for him. Yes he's fast, but he's not really superhuman fast, just very agile and at peak athletic ability you could say. You all seem to be basing this on that Space Marines are tough but slow. You couldn't be more wrong. Astartes are _fast_, unimaginably fast. There was another post on here somewhere, where someone provided several different quotes of an Astartes in motion from a normal humans perspective, and they were all pretty much that it was almost as if they blinked, and everyone was dead.
> 
> I short, I would rate Astartes as faster than Wolverine, as others have said, adamantium isn't uncommon amongst the chapters. Sure he can regenerate, but I imagine marines could quite easily come up with a way to put him down for good.


There's several cases where standard humans were able to go toe to toe with astartes, Cain fought two in the same book (one was injured but still) And in another book a human took the arm off another.

Wolverine regularly fought people who could deflect bullets with normal swords when was the last time an astartes did that?


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## R_Squared (Mar 24, 2013)

But Jedi could swat laser bolts away. That must mean they would be able to own both Wolverine, and any Astartes.
Anyway, Wolverine is one thing, what about Hulk? Wouldn't he smash?

While we're at it, Joe Pineapples could shoot the pimples off an adolescent fly. Combined with Joe Dredd, Rogue, Johnny Alpha and Batman, they would be able to pretty much fuxxor up any Marine that fancied a bit.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Hulk would smash. Superman? Any takers there? I think that a Superhero army would give 40k a run, but they'd ultimately lose because 40k is just so damn aggressive in their methods. It would be interesting to see how the Phoenix would rate as a psyker in the 41st millennium.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> Wolverine regularly fought people who could deflect bullets with normal swords when was the last time an astartes did that?


Agrel Tal deflected multiple bolts shot by a Custodes within feet of him.

He deflects another bolt round (coming in from his side, nonetheless) in _Betrayer_. Granted he's supped up on daemonic power by then.

Bullet quotes are hard to dig up since most of the time marines soak up shots. Though admittedly, they're not so good at deflecting bolt rounds, so maybe there's something to it.



Reaper45 said:


> here's several cases where standard humans were able to go toe to toe with astartes


You don't have to be anywhere near equal speed with someone to go toe to toe with someone. At least in fencing (which, if anything, speed means more since you just have to, relatively, tap someone with your weapon to score a point).


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## el_machinae (Nov 17, 2014)

Well, it depends on what you mean by 'beat'. Chaos is very _outside_ of normal ways to measure relative power. But, we should remember that 40k is 'just' a fractured galaxy. Any fictional system that involves multiple galaxies will have the potential to be stronger.

_The Culture_ is significantly higher tech than 40k. The Xeelee were already mentioned. I'm not sure _how_ the Time Lords would 'beat' 40k, but I'd bet on them.


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## LordNecross (Aug 14, 2014)

The thing is I don't think Time Manipulators beat anything. They just create a more desirable timeline for themselves while any other timeline continues unabated.

So they 'win' in the sense that the conflict never has to happen, or be able to manipulate the outcome by changing factors of future events in a parallel time line.

So if you can count it as a victory, take it. But its more likely Infinity:Infinity win:Lose ratio.

Hulk smashes, just because he is by essence broken. I do believe he is killable, I just don't think anyone in 40k would know how or have the ability to by the time they figured it out. If any faction could subdue hulk, I would say the Crons, and even then only subdue and contain or even just toss him into an alternate universe so they don't have to deal with it.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

I am surprised no one has brought up the Honorverse or The Culture. 

Imperial ships clock in with less than 10 gees of acceleration (according to FFG's Rogue Trader and suppliments) in the Honorverse the slowest ships can do over 500 Gees. All their weapons are in the megaton and gigaton range. 

As for the Culture...Its not even funny how outclassed all the 40k factions combined would be against the Culture. These are people who see the building of halos as simple. They have weapons that render things into non-existence. Their A.I.s make Tzneetch look like a baby with down syndrome by comparison. Their weakest, non-military craft can casually destroy entire systems in the blink of an eye with artifical black holes. "Don't fuck with the Culture."


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## Doom wolf (Oct 10, 2014)

Squirrel girl can own the WH40K universe ! :laugh:

And yeah, I think the culture could handle the fight and win. It wouldn't be easy or bloodless, as the war with Idira wasn't a picnic in the park, but the culturer would win. 

The only real danger would be Chaos, but nothing that a little bit of social engineering couldn't handle.


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## R_Squared (Mar 24, 2013)

Angry Ron Vs Hulk mash up. Who wins? :biggrin:


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## Doom wolf (Oct 10, 2014)

R_Squared said:


> Angry Ron Vs Hulk mash up. Who wins? :biggrin:


Hulk smash !:angry:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

What would happen to the Hulk if he was exposed to the life-eater virus I wonder?


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## Tezdal (Dec 6, 2010)

ntaw said:


> Hulk would smash. Superman? Any takers there? I think that a Superhero army would give 40k a run, but they'd ultimately lose because 40k is just so damn aggressive in their methods. It would be interesting to see how the Phoenix would rate as a psyker in the 41st millennium.


Superman fought hulk in the DC vs Marvel Amalgem Comics run, superman won.


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## LordNecross (Aug 14, 2014)

Tezdal said:


> Superman fought hulk in the DC vs Marvel Amalgem Comics run, superman won.


True, but even that is debated alot by fans.


Superman stands a better chance versus Psykers or things that attack the mind as he actually knows how to combat against psychic attacks. Hulk's mind could plausibly be very vulnerable.


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## Doom wolf (Oct 10, 2014)

Angel of Blood said:


> What would happen to the Hulk if he was exposed to the life-eater virus I wonder?


He would most probably died. Life-eater will kill his cell faster than he can regenerate.

His only way to survive would be to be intelligent as bruce banner, I guess that if he jump off orbit then let him fall at terminal velocity through the atmosphere, he would end up burning and destroying the Virus trough fire or/and space void.

He would then end up crashing unto earth, and regenerate later, and angrier.

Another way to him survive is that he could be simply stupidly immune. The virus could died due to poisoning himself with gamma radiating flesh... eeewwww...uke:

But that's only guessing.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

Doom wolf said:


> He would most probably died. Life-eater will kill his cell faster than he can regenerate.
> 
> His only way to survive would be to be intelligent as bruce banner, I guess that if he jump off orbit then let him fall at terminal velocity through the atmosphere, he would end up burning and destroying the Virus trough fire or/and space void.
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter. Hulk is a singular individual with no means of FTL travel. Even if there was no weapon in the Imperial arsenal that could destroy him (which I doubt) he can only be in one place at a time. The Imperium might have to write off a planet, but they write off whole sectors sometimes. The Hulk would not be that big a deal in the eyes of Imperial authorities.

Though once orks hear tales of him, they might begin to revere him as an avatar of Gork or Mork and then things get interesting. 

A better question is how the Imperium would fare against the kree or the skrulls.


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## Doom wolf (Oct 10, 2014)

GabrialSagan said:


> It doesn't matter. Hulk is a singular individual with no means of FTL travel. Even if there was no weapon in the Imperial arsenal that could destroy him (which I doubt) he can only be in one place at a time. The Imperium might have to write off a planet, but they write off whole sectors sometimes. The Hulk would not be that big a deal in the eyes of Imperial authorities.
> 
> Though once orks hear tales of him, they might begin to revere him as an avatar of Gork or Mork and then things get interesting.
> 
> A better question is how the Imperium would fare against the kree or the skrulls.


The Skrull would be tough but not impossible, as the inquisition is used to infiltration technique.

The Kree are quite powerful too, and don't forget the Shi'ar or the f...ing entitiy like the Galactus, the Eternals (Yeah, they are 300, but they are immortal and often DC powerful-style...)

Theses space empire have also a reliable FTL travel and have a minor population of superbeing, but in my opinions, they are certainly smaller than the imperium in size.

It has also the Brood (a rip-off of aliens), the Phalanx (A Borg rip-off...). 

I'm not sure who would win, but it would be a fight to remember ! :crazy::so_happy:


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## R_Squared (Mar 24, 2013)

GabrialSagan said:


> ....Though once orks hear tales of him, they might begin to revere him as an avatar of Gork or Mork and then things get interesting. ....


Or, they hear about him, and some Mek knocks up a Speshul Gamma zap gun which creates a bunch of Ork Hulks.


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## el_machinae (Nov 17, 2014)

Hmmmn, yeah, the Hulk himself may not be FTL capable. But, there are two possible 'allies' that would take him around. The orks might lure him onto an FTL barge and then drop him onto enemy planets. Or Khorne might whisk him around.

Though I don't find that Hulk is sufficiently withing Khorne's 'theme'. He's lacking a certain _je ne sais quoi._


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## Doom wolf (Oct 10, 2014)

el_machinae said:


> Though I don't find that Hulk is sufficiently withing Khorne's 'theme'. He's lacking a certain _je ne sais quoi._


Hulk always wanted to be left alone. He has anger but hasn't any real bloodlust neither that he has a true ethos warrior. (Except maybe in World war hulk.)

Ares, Red Hulk or Red skull on the contrary...


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

R_Squared said:


> Or, they hear about him, and some Mek knocks up a Speshul Gamma zap gun which creates a bunch of Ork Hulks.


Orks that spread like a weed and have hulks powers.


That would be awesome.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

There are a number of universes that are more powerful than the 40k universe. The most obvious one is Marvel 616. People focus on races like the Kree, Skrulls etc. but forget that there are cosmic and abstract level beings that could wipe out entire galaxies on a whim.

Kinda curious about universes like Supernatural though. Supernatural is limited to Earth, but has beings like Death (as in when this guy was bound, death itself everywhere stopped happening). Same with something like the Dresdenverse. They stay on Earth (where else would they go really?), but they have things like Archangels, who, based on the word of the author, are galaxy busters.


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## vipertaja (Mar 20, 2010)

It doesn't matter who is in the marvel universe as long as that person has the infinity gauntlet.
There. Done deal. The only reason Thanos lost it was because of ego and wanting to impress Death.
One would think that his omnipotence would have let him know that he'd lose, but whatever.
Maybe you just have access to all knowledge if you tap into it or something.
Could have just killed the universe and IIRC he even basically did a couple of times just to warm up.

I don't really see why one would compare the marvel universe and 40k though. It's all a pointless 
nerd internet fight anyway no matter what one compares, but at least compare vaguely similar 
universes like Babylon 5, Star Trek, Star wars etc.. Otherwise someone just brings in Dragonball Z 
and everything goes to another level of stupid. 
(Not bashing the series itself if someone likes it, but comparing it to anything even a tad more toned down just gets dumb)


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## el_machinae (Nov 17, 2014)

Did we discuss whether the Force could be used to defend against Chaos? Jedi Inquisitors keeping the Star Wars Universe free of Chaos so that they could bring their firepower to bear and we could compare SW vs. 40k ship tech?


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

el_machinae said:


> Did we discuss whether the Force could be used to defend against Chaos? Jedi Inquisitors keeping the Star Wars Universe free of Chaos so that they could bring their firepower to bear and we could compare SW vs. 40k ship tech?


For these kind of discussions it's always best to assume that it will work.

There's a ton of badly written fan fiction out there written by biased authors who make the assumption that the force won't work against whatever because it's not in their galaxy.

I'd provide examples but I don't feel like getting a migraine


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## el_machinae (Nov 17, 2014)

It strikes me that having armies composed of clones, with very similar training regimes, might be more risky than diversity (since each god only needs to figure out a generic method of corruption). But then, the first sentence sounds a lot like Space Marines! Very low genetic differences (since the geneseed needs to be compatible) _plus_ the geneseed itself is cloned. And the psychoindoctrination makes them all rather similar to each other in many ways.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

el_machinae said:


> Very low genetic differences (since the geneseed needs to be compatible)


We're never told exactly what is required for the geneseed to take. Considering that a single geneseed (like the Ultramarines) can be used across hundreds of worlds means it's probably not that specific. No where near anything like clones.



el_machinae said:


> plus the geneseed itself is cloned


Is it? We know it can be created in laboratories. Do we know it's cloned?

And geneseed created and passed down through marines also differs. Each time a geneseed is implanted, it absorbs genetic material from its host. Even if a pair of geneseed came from the same marine, it's changed as it passes through the generations.



el_machinae said:


> And the psychoindoctrination makes them all rather similar to each other in many ways.


Source? I mean, yeah, they're taught how to fight, loyalty to the Throne and Imperium...to honor their primarch and Chapter, but do we really see them thinking the same?


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## Titan84 (May 19, 2012)

There is no way Wolverine could take a space marine. Period.

Wolverine is 5'3 and about 300lbs with a 63inch or so reach (71 counting his claws). A Space Marine is around 7'6" tall, weight 760lbs. The closest number for the reach of someone that tall is from a 7 feet tall MMA fighter, and his is 84.5inches, a Space Marine would be closer to 90inches.

A Space Marine could literally put his hand on wolverines head and hold him at bay like a little kid.


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## Mellow_ (Aug 5, 2012)

Doctor Manhattan. 

He can copy himself and manipulate all sorts of things and has an amazing ability to understand things. 

He could probably snuff out The Emperor seeing as he was contemplating leaving and creating his own Galaxy.


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

Mellow_ said:


> Doctor Manhattan.
> 
> He can copy himself and manipulate all sorts of things and has an amazing ability to understand things.
> 
> He could probably snuff out The Emperor seeing as he was contemplating leaving and creating his own Galaxy.


Sounds like another daily job for the inquisition.


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