# Well - Vengeful spirit



## Anakwanar (Sep 26, 2011)

:grin: Ok - i've just done it.
Awesome book - but with the usual McNeil hyperbolas sometimes. Anyway - it has an interesting dialog between 

Emperor 
 and 

Malcador 
 . which begs many questions, because it is the same Outcast dead inconsistency again.

Any thoughts from you, who read the book, would be much appreciated. Thank you




Emperor speaking with Malcador, after Malcador had spoken to Russ. Well he tells: *'Leman Russ is on Terra ...... He brings word of the Lion. Twenty thousand Dark Angels are reportedly bound for Ultramar' ......... unsettling rumours of what is happening in Guilliman's domain' 
* :shok::scare::crazy:

Soooo, from this i could conclude - that this all happened before Unremembered empire. But - how could this be? Because, Lion never mentioned that he saved Russ and that he fought an AL fleet - and such a big engagement he can't simply 'forget' to mention to Guilliman! That's a strategy 

And it was mentioned that they went to 500 worlds after Thramas, and not to Alaxxes.

Again from page 133: *'But Caliban's angels came to the Wolves' aid when Alpharius threatened to destroy them'. *- that's definitely means that this happened after 'Scars' before 'Unremembered Empire' and before Russ get to Terra, which is what? When, omg how?

*Does this means that event's of Unremembered empire happened earlier when battle for Alaxxes or vise versa, or at the same time. When how DA and Lion could be at both places at the same time?*
Omg, i'm sooo confused.

Russ should not be on Terra. Accordingly to lore he wasn't on Terra after HH has started and Horus mortally wounded the Emperor in the end. It is :shok: - well unconsistent.


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## navynerd1453 (Nov 4, 2013)

how does it compare to the other HH books? How was the Knights handeled? Thanks!


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/03/black-library-advance-review-horus.html

My advance review for VS.


Lots of awesome stuff happened in VS, plenty of WHAM! moments and one of the most awesome confrontations in the series yet has finally happened;



Loken vs Horus.

At long last Loken comes face to face with Horus. I was surprised as hell that Horus wanted Loken back and for a moment I actually thought Loken would do it, that he would sell out the other Knights Errant and rejoin the Sons of Horus. I punched the air when he told Horus no and attacked Aximand. Absolutely awesome fight as well, Loken vs Aximand, Varren and Rubio vs Abaddon and Falkus Kibre, Severian and Bror Tyrfingr vs Tormageddon and Grael Noctua, and Qruze the other Knights battling the _Luperci_.

Qruze demolishing four, count it four, Possessed Marines on his own without taking a single hit and all the while schooling them on how sloppy their combat skills are, is one of the most awesome moments in the Heresy. Terribly sad when Horus killed him, the Half-Heard is heard no more. But his final moments were his best moments.

Severian's battle with Tormageddon and Bror biting out the Brother of the Wolf's throat was another awesome moment, and very appropos. Space Wolf beats Luna Wolf. And Severian killing Noctua was funny as well as cool,

Noctua: I've always hated you Severian, even before ascension.
Severian: I never cared about you enough to hate.

And Severian winning by flicking blood in Noctua's eyes and then stabbing his last heart was a great way to end the fight. Cthonia does teach it's sons well.

Pity that Varren and Rubio got their asses handed to them, and that Cayne and Zaven didn't make it. I really like Cayne and his lack of an internal filter, actually saying to an Iron Hand's face that his Legion would be better off with his Primarch dead took guts. Wish that Samus had gutted someone else.

Oh and the return of Samus, now that was awesome. *SAMUS IS HERE!* That Serghar Targhost died to be his host was surprising, wonder if he volunteered or "volunteered" for that "honour". Really liked the moment when Tormageddon mocked Samus for dying a lot;

Tormageddon: He had just earned his way back after a straight up and down warrior like you killed his host on Calth. It's getting to be a thing.

Poor Samus, always getting his ass kicked. Maybe next time he'll do better.




Real surprise though is what Horus found on Molech and the significance of it to the Heresy as a whole;




Now we know where Horus got all the power he has at the end. He got it on Molech. Very surprising that Molech is where the Emperor made his deal with the Chaos Gods, and left a gateway into the Warp as a result. Horus entering the Realm of Chaos was surprising but even more surprising is that he did it. He earned all the power that Chaos gave the Emperor.

Only he earned it. No deals. No bargains. No promises. The power is his to do what he wills. And all it took was centuries, possibly millennia, in the Realm of Chaos leading armies, having adventures and battling against the Gods to earn their respect. And now Horus is a god to match the Emperor, now all he has to do is get to Terra.

The real question is how exactly has this experience affected Horus. On the outside he's quite different but how will his personality change? He is still far from the dark lord of Chaos that Oll Persson saw in his vision of the final battle, but will this power and what he had to do to get it be the first step towards that grim fate. We'll have to wait and see.




If anyone has any questions about the book i'll be happy to answer them.


LotN


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## theurge33 (Apr 4, 2012)

Can you list the Primarchs from the dramatis personae in a spoiler tab? Don't want to get many details on this, but figuring this is the first page, it will whet my appetite!!

Also, when is this due out anyway?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

theurge33 said:


> Can you list the Primarchs from the dramatis personae in a spoiler tab? Don't want to get many details on this, but figuring this is the first page, it will whet my appetite!!
> 
> Also, when is this due out anyway?


May I think, not really sure.

Primarchs;




Horus
Mortarion
Fulgrim
Leman Russ
Rogal Dorn

Horus and Mortarion are the main players in the book.




LotN


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Very interesting stuff. Had always wondered how a non psycic like Horus became souped up enough to match with the Emperor. But i think the most significant stuff is just how he became it. That Erebus actually spoke the truth, utterly damning for the Emperor and his motives!


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

When is this book out for the rest of the public?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> When is this book out for the rest of the public?


I already put that down.



Lord of the Night said:


> May I think, not really sure.



LotN


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Lord of the Night said:


> I already put that down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah sorry


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## Anakwanar (Sep 26, 2011)

*To Lord of the Night*
Hi, i'm glad you enjoyed - could you give me your opinion on this matters: 


1) The one that started this thread. 
2) Why Horus just didn't destroyed Paragon of Terra from orbit? This is a lapse of logic it seems - because if he was afraid of collateral damage - it happened anyway after the Titan fall? 
3) Most of the KE were just a simple ragg dolls for the beating (especially the ones who died)? Or is it just me?
4) Just the General Question - if the Emp had no powers to seal the door 100 years ago, then why Alivia hasn't sealed it 90-80-70-60 etc. years ago, and were waiting for Horus to come?
Ok, even if the Emp decided to left the door closed, but not sealed for his own purposes - what Alivia was waiting for, then Horus Armada has appeared at the Mandeville point? 
Why she hasn't gone at that time. 

It seems all this was elaborately created to give her some space, and to give the Ultras - the glory deaths they desired soo much? 
5) The actions of the Emperor is now more unexplainable - because he made a deal with Chaos Gods to created his sons, cheated them knowing that this sons has a warp seed in all of them and one day any one of them could fall. 

It is unexplainable in the first place now to create Primarchs, using Chaos at all? 
6) Ok Severian punctuared Noctua heart - but the last one had already a replacement for the one he lost on Molech - it begs a question - why did he died? 



Thanks,in advance, for your opinion on the matter :grin:


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

I'll give it a shot, though I have no answer for the first question. Likely that segment references events that we have yet to see.

1. 

Because you can't target orbital strikes like that. The narrative actually says so in the scene where Abaddon and Kibre destroy the Iron Fist Mountain, only the fact that it was the biggest mountain range on the planet even made it feasible to use an orbital strike on it. And an Imperator Titan isn't that big of a target in comparison, an orbital strike would have been just as likely to hit Horus's army or miss entirely.


2. 

It's just you. Cayne did quite well before Samus killed him, Nohai was killed by a surprise attack and the ex Raven Guard was caught off guard by a Daemon. Perfectly explainable. And they did really well in the final fight.


3. 

Because what if he needed it again? He couldn't close it then and if Alivia was right, would never have been able to close it. And the Emperor never saw the Heresy coming remember, so why would he think that he would need to seal it up anyway. He left a guardian with orders to seal it rather than let anyone else use it, but leave it open in case he needed it once more most likely.


4. 

The idea is that the Emperor made a deal with the Chaos Gods for the secrets behind creation so that he could create the Primarchs, and whatever he promised them in return he reneged on and broke the deal. Hence why the Chaos Gods scattered the Primarchs when they found them, revenge for the Emperor's falseness. So the Emperor used the Warp to create the Primarchs, meaning that they are beings of the Warp unlike him and could fall, whereas the Emperor appears to be a being that is anathema to the Warp and could never fall to Chaos.


5. 

That's because Noctua did not get a replacement heart after Hakon shot him, he refused medical care to keep fighting in the Battle of Molech. He probably would have gotten it later but Horus assigned him to hunt the Knights-Errant and he took them immediately to Horus after he captured them, no time to get a new heart and thus Severian taking out his second and final heart put him down.



LotN


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## Anakwanar (Sep 26, 2011)

*Thanks 'Lord of the Night' *
About the first question i just get a 50-50 confirmation that 


Chris Wraight will write a novella (not a novel or short story) about the actual void engagement between SW and AL, where actually SW would be saved by the Caliban monks :grin: 
 

All in all the book is good - not a 'Thousands Sons' awesome, but much better then anything else from Graham. It was a pleasure to read 

Fully agree upon your review :grin:


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