# Can the entirity of the Grey Knights hold off a WAGHH?



## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Lets say, the emperor dies, the imperium is in shambles, and the Grey Knights in full are dispatched to protect a single world which houses an object to save mankind.

Why the grey knights were sent and not others? Because all other chapters, forces are busy being slaughtered or already dead with the fall of the imperium.


So can the entire force of the grey knights with all their equipment and weapons, hold off a WAAGHH of 200,000 Orks? 

Also of that 200,000 orks 30,000 of them are elite top tier Kommando Nobs, 30,000 are Mega Stompas, and another 30,000 are elite top tier Weird Boyz, with the last 10,000 being elite twenty thousand year old war bosses that are bigger then drednaughts.

The second 100,000 make up the tech boys, vehicle operators, pilots, grunts etc.

Can the Grey knights hold out on this world?


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

No

at least ten characters


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## Anfo (Jul 17, 2009)

30,000 wierd boyz would overload their psychic abilities and blow up everything.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

That's a big negative.

Well, unless Matt Ward gets involved that is.


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## Legiomortis (Jun 11, 2011)

If Matt Ward had his say, Draigo would turn up from the warp, wrap two dead demon princes around his fists and falcon punch each warboss in turn whilst shooting d-weapon shots from his codpiece cannon.

Meanwhile on the other side of the planet the remnants of the Blood Angel/Necron tea party would turn up and paint themselves in the colour of ultramarines (since all chapters desire to be just like dem boyz in blue) after which the Orkz would paint everything yellow as yellow makes retreatin fahstah.

In Mr Wards eyes that would be the greatest thing in the history of ever.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Kill the head, and the body will die.


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## V ANoMaLy V (Jun 21, 2011)

Yes, I agree wiTh Doelago. Orks have some of the worst leadership next to IG in the 40k universe. Everytime the warboss dies the orks look to the next big boss but " everyone wants to be Da Big Boss" Therefore theyd most likely break up into waring clans inevitably destroying each other. Thetefore Gk wouldnt probably need to even stay to finish the battle.


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

Why is everyone saying no? The Grey knights could easily hold off a waaaagh.
When the Crimson fists were almost completely wiped out and their fortress monastery destroyed, they still held out for weeks. 
So seeing as the Grey Knights have full strength, it should be no problem. Even if this planet has no humans alive on it. 
Besides everything else, they are the elite. They have the best weapons known to man, they all have psychic powers, they have potentially hundreds of years woth of experiance, sure it was against daemons, but come on. Greater Daemons arn't exactly easy to kill. 
Also alot of the tactics used are able to be applied to an ork situation. 
"find the biggest meanest daemon, then kill it" ... seems awfully similar to "find the biggest meanest ork, then kill it"

Now expanding on the psychic powers idea. Seeing as there are so many massive orks, would it really be THAT difficult to say, send them a small message telling them that they could easily kill that boss they have been taking orders from for too long. 

I know alot of you got alot of hate for anything resembling a space marine out there. But come on, the Grey Knights have never been fully assembled for anything before, with all that psychic power and years of experiance bashing around they must be able to think up something. Don't underestimate them.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

cegorach said:


> Why is everyone saying no?


You cant say everyone since I never said no.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Ditto!

Midnight


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## V ANoMaLy V (Jun 21, 2011)

What do u mean? i said no and gave a clear reason as to why they would succeed ,and im a chaos player


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## OrdoMalleus (Apr 24, 2009)

If a Brotherhood of Grey Knights (Aurellian) can kills a Daemon Primarch (Angron)and his Bodyguard of blood thirsters im pretty sure they can kill a Badass Warboss and his nob retinue , And as with all Ork WAAAAGHs it all falls apart as soon as the warboss dies.

Also, Ork Mobs worst Nightmare=Purifers, so casting Cleaning flame on a Ork Waaagh of 200000 is (If my mathhammer is correct) is roughly 33, 334 thousand Ork dead before blades fall from one unit of purifiers, Imagine what an entire Brotherhood of purifiers would do.........


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The entire Grey Knight Chapter against the described Ork force? The Orks are gonna need tin openers cause they're eating meat cooked in its own armour tonight...

Seriously the GK would be smushed so hard against a force like that that it wouldn't be a war, more like a (semi) glorious last stand.

Body Count? Very High.
Chance of Victory? Nil.


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## OrdoMalleus (Apr 24, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Body Count? Very High.
> Chance of Victory? Nil.


Then what are we waiting for ?


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## Zakath (Feb 23, 2011)

Although it has been kind of said already, the Grey Knights wouldn't be able to perform any hold missions. Hit and run strategy and killing the enemy HQ would be quite feasible and would most propably stall the Waagh!

Considering the quality of GK forces they could even strike at multiple key targets in a very rapid succession, thus bringing the Ork forces to their knees. It has been done to Tyranids multiple times and they have the Hive Mind to cordinate against such attacks (yes, less so after the main beast is down but it's still that much more than what the Orks have).


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Commit exterminatus on the planet. End of Wargh!

That or teleport assault and kill the warboss.

In short: Slim.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

hailene said:


> Commit exterminatus on the planet. End of Wargh!
> 
> That or teleport assault and kill the warboss.
> 
> In short: Slim.


Except as per the original post there isn't a single Warboss, for some reason there are 10,000 of them.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

The Grey Knights have the orbital integration and fleet presence that they'd carpet bomb most of the ork Waaaagh! and end up just fighting a few remnant groups. It's the irritating preservation of life that stops the Knights from doing that.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Lux said:


> with the last 10,000 being elite twenty thousand year old war bosses that are bigger then drednaughts.


Wait, what the hell are you smoking?!


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

All I can say is: Lux, your standards have fallen. I was very disappointed with this thread.

On topic, bye-bye boys in grey...


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

The older a warboss is, the wiser, stronger and more powerful he becomes, the one which nearly killed the emperor was described as dwarfing a dread.

As for carpet bombing the WAAGH, it is 200,000 orks, they have the space supremacy which means the GK's wont be dominating or controlling the skies.


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## Ultra1 (Mar 10, 2011)

If Yarick (a lowly human) can take a warboss and rip off his power claw, the grey knights will decimate any WAAAGH imaginable.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Doelago said:


> Wait, what the hell are you smoking?!


It's Lux..... not even god knows what is wrong with him.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

locustgate said:


> It's Lux.....


No more elaborate explanation is probably needed actually.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Except as per the original post there isn't a single Warboss, for some reason there are 10,000 of them.


Easy then. 

Go back to Titan. Write s'more purity seals. Bathe in some more SoB blood.

The Orks will kill each other for you.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

hailene said:


> Easy then.
> 
> Go back to Titan. Write s'more purity seals. Bathe in some more SoB blood.
> 
> The Orks will kill each other for you.


These are 10,000+ year old warbosses, wise and cunning with age, they work together flawlessly to lead the WAAGHHH with effectiveness and efficiency.

Additionally if you read the original post, you would see they have to stay on the planet to protect key installations, they cannot leave or retreat from the planet.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

My avatar expresses my feelings on this topic PERFECTLY.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

To be honest the original question is flawed.

There isn't a fair comparison for lots of reasons, but the one the stuck out for me was:

Orks during a Waaaggghhh bring loads of Ork Titans .... what the hell are the Grey Knights going to do without mechanicum help dealing with those?

Grey Knights, would also need logistical help to get ammo refills, reapairs and medical attention.

In saying that, look at how well the Black Templars did in _The Battle for Helsreach_ or the Crimson Fists in _The Battle for Rynns World_

So the ENTIRE force Grey Knights could easily cut a swathe through even the largest Waaaggghhh with ease, but they would need some help to get supplies and deal with Ork orbital fleets, Titans etc.


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Wow, I can't believe so many of you can't even see the really big flaw in a Grey Knights victory. Even if I don't mention all the other reasons why they wouldn't win, how's about this one: 

Have you all forgotten what a Grey Knight is?

Read the question. The Emperor has died. The entire thing that makes a Grey Knight unique is his psychic diamond core that is fueled by his belief and faith in the Emperor of Mankind. With the Emperor dead, that core would probably be all but shattered, leaving you with a force that is vastly outnumbered and who lacks the specific gear, expertise and experience to fight the foe they're facing, seeing as they're all a bunch of daemon hunters. 

If it was the Deathwatch, then it would be a different story IMO.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Putting aside all the extra LULZ in your post, I'd say a numerically superior force of Orks/a WAAGH would crumble to a large group of Grey Knights.

People seem to forget that while the Grey Knights were originally designed to stave off Daemon invasions, it is because of their purpose that they can handle lesser threats (IE. anything other than a Daemon is a lesser threat imo) with ease.

Individual daemons are as physically strong or even stronger than individual Orks and can always come back for round two if they lose while an Ork, despite their resilience, simply cannot compare to the durability of emotion given sentience. 

And yet for all their power, a vast majority of Daemons melt away against a Grey Knight even if they do not resort to using their innate warp powers.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Putting aside all the extra LULZ in your post, I'd say a numerically superior force of Orks/a WAAGH would crumble to a large group of Grey Knights.
> 
> People seem to forget that while the Grey Knights were originally designed to stave off Daemon invasions, it is because of their purpose that they can handle lesser threats (IE. anything other than a Daemon is a lesser threat imo) with ease.
> 
> ...


Let me say this first: I agree that 1000 Grey Knights would kick the stuffing out of a lot of Orks. _A lot._

But your comparison is a bit off. I'll try to simplify it as much as I can. The numbers are just made up, but should make my point:

1 Daemon>500 Orks.
1 GK> Daemon.

Therefore 1 GK>500 Orks.

I think that sums up your argument, right? 

Well here's the thing. The GK has a lot of special equipment and training that allows him to overcome daemons specifically that would not apply to non-daemonic lifeforms (IE Orks). So could a single Grey Knight kick the stuffing out of 500 Orks? Who knows. Maybe. Maybe more, maybe less.

The Grey Knight is undoubtedly one of the most proficient warriors at the Imperium's disposal. But a direct bad assery index based upon how bad ass of a daemon GKs can kill doesn't translate directly into how many Orks that GK may be able to kill.


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## oiad (Feb 10, 2011)

Anyone can see where this is now heading. The same old rubbish again, Grey Knights are only good against Daemons...

...Anyway, the worst part about this silly scenario is that the Grey Knights wouldn't be able to get there in the first place, what with the Astronomicon down an' all.


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## Sir Whittaker (Jun 25, 2009)

Ignoring the composition of the ork force in the OP, does anyone else think that 200.00 orks is a pretty small waagh? Or maybe my perception have been skewed as to what constitutes a decent waagh these days (*in old man voice* in my day you needed a million orks before anyone even considered a waaagh).

I'm siding with the orks anyway.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Sir Whittaker said:


> Ignoring the composition of the ork force in the OP, does anyone else think that 200.00 orks is a pretty small waagh? Or maybe my perception have been skewed as to what constitutes a decent waagh these days (*in old man voice* in my day you needed a million orks before anyone even considered a waaagh).
> 
> I'm siding with the orks anyway.


You're right. It is small for a waaagh. But, given the supposed composition of the forces in the waaagh, I think we can let it slide this time.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

hailene said:


> The Grey Knight is undoubtedly one of the most proficient warriors at the Imperium's disposal. But a direct bad assery index based upon how bad ass of a daemon GKs can kill doesn't translate directly into how many Orks that GK may be able to kill.


If a man can kill a bear, it stands to reason that he can take on a pack of wolves, especially a pack of wolves with no sense of a team mentality no?


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> If a man can kill a bear, it stands to reason that he can take on a pack of wolves, especially a pack of wolves with no sense of a team mentality no?


It depends. Is the guy's equipment is geared completely towards hunting bears.

I'm not saying that a GK can't kill a bunch of Orks (because he can), but he probably wouldn't be able to kill too many more than a regular Space Marine.

Whereas a GK is probably many times more capable than a regular Space Marine when dealing with psykers and daemons.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Forget about the equipment issue for now.

GK's are physically stronger than pretty much any Astartes (not including exceptions like Calgar, etc.) and I'm not even going to talk about their psyker powers.

So why would you assume that they would not be able to kill a lot more Orks than a regular Space Marine? 

Simply putting a GK into standard Astartes power-armor won't make him a lesser warrior.

They are closest to the Emperor DNA-wise under the Primarchs and he had no equal in terms of physical or psychic strength (I feel obligated to add imo but ugh).

Even their armor, while aimed at dealing with Daemons, consequently would lead to dishing out more physical strength due to being designed for enemies with almost no physical limitations.

What is an Ork at its pinnacle of strength? A warboss, ok good for him but a warboss is nothing in comparison to a daemon/greater daemon in terms of strength because the latter as I've stated above, has nothing that says they can't be at a certain level of strength. Given this, dare I say it's only for plot reasons that a GK can actually compete with a daemon in melee combat.

In b4 Magnus/fanboy/loltau/mattdaemon

PS. Adding this just because I can.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> PS. Adding this just because I can.


And I am adding this just cause I can.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Forget about the equipment issue for now.
> 
> GK's are physically stronger than pretty much any Astartes (not including exceptions like Calgar, etc.) and I'm not even going to talk about their psyker powers.
> 
> ...


Since when have GKs been said to be physically stronger than a regular Space Marine? Mentally tougher? Without a doubt. Physically? I don't think so.

Their armor against physical foes is, to my knowledge, no better nor worse than normal power armor. Aegis protects them from psychic and daemonic attacks.

And I'll say this, if regular GKs are capable of taking on Greater Daemons in a straight fight, why have the Dread Knight? 

Answer: Because they can't.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Sir Whittaker said:


> Ignoring the composition of the ork force in the OP, does anyone else think that 200.00 orks is a pretty small waagh?


Yeah 200,000 in Greenskin terms is more of a small raiding force rather than fully-fledged Waaagh!


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Isnt it stated in the Killing Ground book, when Uriel and his buddy fought that Grey Knight they got their asses handed to them in that duel of sanctification? I also thought that the author stated that one Grey Knight is as good as a dozen space marines? 

just putting that out there.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

It's the weirdest Waaagh! in history considering each super-uber warboss only has 19 Orks to his beck and call.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

hailene said:


> It's the weirdest Waaagh! in history considering each super-uber warboss only has 19 Orks to his beck and call.


10,000 warbosses all working together with 30,000 elite top tier 30,000 year old weird boyz? With 30,000 super wise mega stompaz, and 30,000 elite 30,000 year old kommando nobs? With 100,000 additional orks manning the titans, orbital ships, mechs, foot soldiers etc?


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Lux said:


> 10,000 warbosses all working together with 30,000 elite top tier 30,000 year old weird boyz? With 30,000 super wise mega stompaz, and 30,000 elite 30,000 year old kommando nobs? With 100,000 additional orks manning the titans, orbital ships, mechs, foot soldiers etc?


I know you only have the most basic understanding of the WH40k universe, but Orks are known as a "green tide" for a reason. A warboss that can only bring 19 other boyz to the fight isn't much of a warboss.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

hailene said:


> I know you only have the most basic understanding of the WH40k universe, but Orks are known as a "green tide" for a reason. A warboss that can only bring 19 other boyz to the fight isn't much of a warboss.


But you are seeing it as each warboss bringing 19 followers, it is not so, it is 199.999 followers following the primary warboss. However the 19 other warbosses are working equally with the primary warboss, if the primary warboss dies then the next takes over calmly, they have a line of command.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Lux said:


> But you are seeing it as each warboss bringing 19 followers, it is not so, it is 199.999 followers following the primary warboss. However the 19 other warbosses are working equally with the primary warboss, if the primary warboss dies then the next takes over calmly, they have a line of command.


Doesn't work that way. A Warboss is top of the totem pole within his tribe, as per the Ork codex.

If there's a line or hierarchy amongst the rest of the warbosses then they're just Nobz. 

A warboss doesn't require a certain size of strength. It's the top position within a tribe.


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

Lux said:


> But you are seeing it as each warboss bringing 19 followers, it is not so, it is 199.999 followers following the primary warboss. However the 19 other warbosses are working equally with the primary warboss, if the primary warboss dies then the next takes over calmly, they have a line of command.


Yeah, not even Eldar or Tau could make that transition cleanly, nevermind Orks. what you should have done is phrased it slightly differently. 
Instead of saying 20 warbosses bigger than dreads, you should just have said 20 Nobs bigger than dreads. It would save alot of hassle and if the warboss died, then the nex biggest ork (no matter what title you slap on it) would take over anyways. So if i were you I would just have said that. 

But there is no way that orks, the most war-like race in the world, where most of them are more self destructive than kharn ever was. There is no way that they would say "oh looks like warboss massive hammer has been killed, lets all get out a tape measure and arrange a small IQ test to see who should take over"
Not even humans or space marines do that. 
What would happen is several orks, proably four or more if there are that many that are so big, would each decide they were fit and gather as many followers as possible and brawl it out to see who would win. 
Best case scenario for orks if leader is killed is that three orks the size of dreads are killed by rivals. 
Worst case scenario, thousands of orks are drawn into the mix.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

cegorach said:


> Why is everyone saying no? The Grey knights could easily hold off a waaaagh.
> When the Crimson fists were almost completely wiped out and their fortress monastery destroyed, they still held out for weeks.
> .


yeah but if you quote the stinking pile of garbage that is rynns world, you've already lost, that book is the biggest piece of crap i've ever read.

moving on from irrational rage as it sadly doesnt decrease its "validity".
it isnt irrational to think so, if the grey knights could fortify themselves and possibly get human serfs to man the wall weapons it would be possible for the grey knights to seriously put a dent in the waagh before they reached the walls, in hand to hand combat an ork would test them, yet obviously they are better equiped and with the psychic potential within each of them who knows.

I dont think so because essentially waaghs are so fucking massive i think they grey knights would eventually run out of ammo and they would be taken down one by one, the green tide just closing in making it impossible to fight properly with their weaponry and allowing the orks to drag them down


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## Rakaziel (May 17, 2011)

It depends - if their anti-psi equipment affects the orks' latent psi powers that keep their stuff working they may actually have a chance, for a while. Otherwise they will simply get overrun by sheer mass.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

How do people even know the Grey Knights' psychic abilities would even work properly? Having 30k top tier 'elite' Weirdboyz (as extremely unlikely as that actually is) is probably gonna create so much psychic backwash or white noise that it will in all likely hood severely hamper if not outright prevent the Grey Knights from launching psychic assaults against the Orks.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I suspect that since GKs are expected to fight in the middle of wide spread daemon incursions and on top of Daemon worlds, I'd imagine it'd be possible.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

Your telling me that weirdboyz have more psyker clout than the daemons of chaos they usually take on in legions size with always considerably less numbers? Where did you get this fact. Daemon princes of Tzeentch who can manipulate whole worlds have been felled by the Grey Knights. Taking on insane numbers is what they were created to do.They never go in matching numbers for numbers. The entire chapter against an ork waagh, I would say it's not feasible to count them out automatically. All matt ward aside, if you look at Hammer of Daemons I think it shows that these guys can cause exactly the kind of chaos to break the waagh period.That was one knight also unarmed,unarmored,and psyschic talents supressed as a prisoner on a world of Khorne.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Deadeye776 said:


> Your telling me that weirdboyz have more psyker clout than the daemons of chaos they usually take on in legions size with always considerably less numbers? Where did you get this fact. Daemon princes of Tzeentch who can manipulate whole worlds have been felled by the Grey Knights. Taking on insane numbers is what they were created to do.They never go in matching numbers for numbers. The entire chapter against an ork waagh, I would say it's not feasible to count them out automatically. All matt ward aside, if you look at Hammer of Daemons I think it shows that these guys can cause exactly the kind of chaos to break the waagh period.That was one knight also unarmed,unarmored,and psyschic talents supressed as a prisoner on a world of Khorne.


Don't put words in my mouth. I never said Weirdboyz are more powerful than daemons. But have you forgotten that Grey Knights are made to combat daemons? They have wards implanted in their bodies and have their psychic powers develop to combat daemons. Their mere presence is anathema to daemons and weakens their hold on the material plane. How do these wards/enhancements affect Orks. Oh yeah, not at all. Against Orks their just another chapter of Space Marines with slightly shinier equipment.

Also, some Weirdboyz do have some serious juice. If you consider top tier 'elite', as Lux describes them, you're probably talking Warpheads close to Zogwort's level, and this is an Ork that once one-shot'd an entire IG company. And not all Grey Knights are particularly impressive psykers themselves.Ii doubt the Grey Knight you still described, Alaric, has enough offensive psychic power to cook a turkey.

So then even if you just take Lux's 'warbosses', which are pretty much described as being 10k Ghazghkull Thrakas, backed by 30k Warpheads in Zogwort's league, you already have a massively destructive force. And that's but a fifth of the Ork forces.

I'm sorry, but the Daemon Hunters are going down.

And btw, for all the people who can't seem to get it right, it's waaagh.


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## stevey293 (Aug 16, 2011)

How awesome would it look to settle this in a game! Tbh i have not much of a clue about any of the stories or back grounds of the races or rules for the games but in my opinion it would be close. Are you including grey knight cruisers in this fight?


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

I just think that the Grey Knights equipment and speciality's would be wasted in such a battle.

What use is a power weapon against crappy armour? It would do the same job as a chainsword.

Anti-Daemon whatnot's would be wasted too.

Sure, some equipment would help, but we're talking about hundreds of Orks for each Grey Knight... They'd have to go into a killing-overdrive just to balance out their kill:death ratio (I have been playing COD, so bear with me).

I don't mean to piss off any Grey Knighter's, be they a veteran or bandwagon jumper, but you honestly can't expect 1000 of anything to stand up to 200,000 Orks, apart from the strongest beings in the 40K universe. The problem is that logic doesn't fit very well into 40K, so we can only voice our opinion's backed up by biased fluff (Not pointing at anyone in particular).

The only way that I could see the Grey Knights winning is if they had everything at their chapters disposal, such as entire fleets of ships and aid from Inquisitors. I think that if the grey Knights just had their weapons, equipment and full chapter, they'd be massacred.

Just my opinion though.


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## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

according to Matt Ward "draigo could, cuase hes draigo,"


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## Major Strombardt (Feb 22, 2009)

If they didn't hold out who would know?

(If the senario is consistant)


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

hailene said:


> Since when have GKs been said to be physically stronger than a regular Space Marine?


Since the dawn of their creation.



hailene said:


> Their armor against physical foes is, to my knowledge, no better nor worse than normal power armor. Aegis protects them from psychic and daemonic attacks.


It is the best armor Mars has to offer and is imbued with their latest gadgets, etc.

Daemons are extremely strong given that they come from a realm where the laws of physics do not apply (IE. a stick thin Daemon is capable of lifting a leman russ tank with one hand) hence why their armor is also fashioned to absorb blows from extremely strong enemies.



hailene said:


> And I'll say this, if regular GKs are capable of taking on Greater Daemons in a straight fight, why have the Dread Knight?
> 
> Answer: Because they can't.


I did not say a single GK is capable of such a feat but a group of them? Apparently they can. First war of Armaggedon.

And if I am not mistaken, the Dread Knight is simply a new means of helping the GK's deal with greater threats and reducing casualties. 

It was not created because the GK's cannot deal with certain threats but why hold yourself at a disadvantage against an always numerically and all-around superior foe



Chompy Bits said:


> Against Orks their just another chapter of Space Marines with slightly shinier equipment.


They'd soon find out just how different



Chompy Bits said:


> This is an Ork that once one-shot'd an entire IG company.


Plenty of Daemons, Chaos sorcerers, etc. can do this. It's not that big of a deal.



Chompy Bits said:


> And not all Grey Knights are particularly impressive psykers themselves.


Actually they all are. It's partially why only one out of like a million recruits pass their tests and are deemed worthy of receiving the rarest geneseed of them all (ie. the Emperor's) 



Chompy Bits said:


> I'm sorry, but the Daemon Hunters are going down.


The Daemon Hunters that because of their training and direct ties to the Emperor can take on any lesser threat (IE. anything other than a Daemon) with ease? Mmk.



Weapon said:


> What use is a power weapon against crappy armour? It would do the same job as a chainsword.


And why is that a bad thing? 

If anything I'd say a power weapon is more efficient in that it would not tire the Space Marine because of how effortlessly it passes through armor/flesh. 

I'm not saying it takes that much effort for a Space Marine to slice an Ork in half with a chainsword but when they slay hundreds of orks per battle, even their legendary stamina would begin to wither away because the chainsword would have to pass through armor, a lot of muscle and very thick bones.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Since the dawn of their creation.
> Source?
> 
> 
> ...



Negatory. From their codex, page 24, " All Grey Knights have some latent psychic talent, but few Battle-brothers exercise it with free rein. For most, careful training and supervision allows them to focus their abilities in concert with their Battle-Brothers, and even then along specific lines only..."


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Also while not specifically on topic il address it because it always irks me; the Grey Knights don't have the Emperor's geneseed. The Emperor doesn't have any geenseed he is a normal man who happens to be a supreme psycher. Hell the primarchs don't have any geneseed. 

Geneseed refers to the prognoid glands, the implants which essentially control the other implants and absorb genetic information, allowing more organs to be created. 

Grey Knight geneseed would be some unique mix, but it's not the Emperor's.


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## Tyco Revre (Jun 5, 2011)

GK wards block out Psychic/Warp powers (GK Omnibus) so I don't think any kf yiur stupid Snagrots or whatever could do a thong lol. Aegis suits make it harder to use powers and Wards weaken them to extrene extents. Also with Psykers destroying Companies.......I believe Magnus Killed an Imperator with Psychic powers and Terminator Squad Tancred (GK Omnibus) killed 100-200 "Guardsmen" With a single Holocaust


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Tyco Revre said:


> GK wards block out Psychic/Warp powers (GK Omnibus) so I don't think any kf yiur stupid Snagrots or whatever could do a thong lol. Aegis suits make it harder to use powers and Wards weaken them to extrene extents. Also with Psykers destroying Companies.......I believe Magnus Killed an Imperator with Psychic powers and Terminator Squad Tancred (GK Omnibus) killed 100-200 "Guardsmen" With a single Holocaust


Fuck seriously, you're using Magnus the Red as an example? I'm sorry, but that is completely pointless. So one of the most powerful psykers of all time could kill a titan? Really? Wow. And your other example just shows that it took a squad of Grey Knight terminators to do what one powerful Weirdboy did, and Tancred was noted as being a particularly strong psyker.

Also, like I said earlier, even forgetting about about the Weirdboyz you got about 10k Ghazghkull equivalents in the Ork forces. I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks one GK > 10 Ghazghkulls is completely full of shit. Then back that up by the rest of the ludicrously unlikely and over-powered force and then tell me the Grey Knights are winning.

@Malus: Please list the names of these 'plenty' of sorcerers who can take out such large targets. And it's normally only the Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes that can cause such large scale destruction. If the Grey Knights had to face 30k Daemon Princes then they would get completely annihilated.



Malus Darkblade said:


> The Daemon Hunters that because of their training and direct ties to the Emperor can take on any lesser threat (IE. anything other than a Daemon) with ease?


Where is this written? If they were so awesome at fighting everything, why have other specialised groups like the Deathwatch been formed?


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

I want to see this battle in an apocalypse match. 1 Gray Knight per 200 Orks? I don't think so. Now, if they also had some mechanicum or naval weaponry, they could.

Here's the thing. A planet is HUGE. 1,000 guys can't defend an entire planet. They'd be hard pressed defending just one large city. The whole Whaaggh!!! could land on a separate continent and wipe it out before the Grey Knights could do anything about it.

Now, if they were combined with a large planetary defense force, or had the support of the mechanicum and navy to monitor movements of ork forces, then perhaps they could mount up some surgical strikes to behead the whaagh and finish it. Odds are, though, they'd have to take out every minor leader in the group of orks. There'd only be about 1,000 bosses or so. It would probably take them a year or two to track down that many bosses. By then, the planet would be all but destroyed.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Another thing people should remember is that the Orks will be able to replace their losses where as the Grey Knights can't, which means that any long term engagement would inevitably shift in favour of the Orks.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> And why is that a bad thing?
> 
> If anything I'd say a power weapon is more efficient in that it would not tire the Space Marine because of how effortlessly it passes through armor/flesh.
> 
> I'm not saying it takes that much effort for a Space Marine to slice an Ork in half with a chainsword but when they slay hundreds of orks per battle, even their legendary stamina would begin to wither away because the chainsword would have to pass through armor, a lot of muscle and very thick bones.


It's bad because it's not what the weapons were made for. My point is that their equipment is wasted against the Orks, not that it's not effective against them. Power swords would be much more useful against terminator armour, where they could make a much bigger difference. 

Although I'll concede to you the point that the Power Weapons would make it easier on the knights stamina, which would be important in a war of attrition, which is exactly what this war would become if the Grey Knights could hold their own against the horde.

Also, does anyone else notice how, if Matt Ward hadn't done the knights codex, we wouldn't be having this argument?

The knights didn't have a definite number before this codex.

So Mr. Ward, allegedly the guy who says that marine armies can crap on absolutely anyone else, has actually weakened the chapter by stating that there are only 1000 of them... there could have been more than the Black Templars had for all we knew.


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## Tyco Revre (Jun 5, 2011)

@Chompy Bitz........

If you look at the numbers of Squad Tancred (5) vs Guardsmen (200) thats a 1:40 kill Ratio while a Standard Company (May not be guard specific) is 30-35 soldiers so the Wierdboy is 1:35 ratio. a 1:40 ratio is better than a 1:35 ratio. Also, A Terminator squad (fluff wise) would never suffer from perils of the warp and have superior weapons, training, armor and willpower making them superior to Wierdboys.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Tyco Revre said:


> @Chompy Bitz........
> 
> If you look at the numbers of Squad Tancred (5) vs Guardsmen (200) thats a 1:40 kill Ratio while a Standard Company (May not be guard specific) is 30-35 soldiers so the Wierdboy is 1:35 ratio. a 1:40 ratio is better than a 1:35 ratio. Also, A Terminator squad (fluff wise) would never suffer from perils of the warp and have superior weapons, training, armor and willpower making them superior to Wierdboys.


Where do you get this number that an IG company is on average 35 men strong? As far as I know, companies tend to be at least a few hundred strong. And the strength of the company Zogwort wasted isn't even mentioned, so it's just more assumptions on your part.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Chompy Bits said:


> Where do you get this number that an IG company is on average 35 men strong? As far as I know, companies tend to be at least a few hundred strong. And the strength of the company Zogwort wasted isn't even mentioned, so it's just more assumptions on your part.


You are correct Chompy, a platoon might be 35 strong but a company is made up of several platoons!


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

First off, a waagh of only 200,000? what are you, high?

Secondly, the ENTIRE Grey Knights congregrating on a single planet would cause a massive imbalance in the warp. I doubt the Orks would even have to fight, Tzeentch would pop up in the sky and OM NOM NOM all the Grey Knights.

But wait!

Draigo would come busting out of some portal that just randomly appeared, land on Tzeentch's face, and start pimp slapping him until he ran away crying like a little girl!


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## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

Order Exterminatus on the planet.

Ward would.


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