# Fallen Angels discussion. *Spoilers blah blah blah*



## brianizbrewtal (Jan 26, 2011)

So, I have just finished Fallen Angels and I wanted to get something cleared up, and yes I'm aware it's been discussed before. 

1) Luther, Zahariel and the lot on Caliban are against the Emperor and his vision? I wasn't too clear on that.

2) After that sweet battle on Diamat when Titus wiped out all those Sons of Horus, The Lion's 'guest' talked to him about the near future. So at the of the epilogue it's revealed that it is Perturabo of the Iron Warriors. Jonson doesn't know that Perturabo is secretly in league with the Warmaster? That's why Perturabo was speaking to him in a agreeing/deviously way? What I'm trying to clear up is that Lion El'Jonson wasn't aware of Pertuabo's bastardly ways and that's why people were not sure if the Dark Angels were loyalists? That and, because of what happened on Caliban? 

Don't hate me too much for asking this hahaha


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

1) Those on Caliban are 'for Caliban'. They are not in league with Chaos or anything like that. They just don't like how things have changed because of the Emperor and his Great Crusade.

2) The story takes place Post-Istvaan III and pre-Istvaan V. The Lion doesn't know that Perturabo has sided with Horus. At that point in the story Horus, Fulgrim, Angron and Mortarion are the only known traitors (from the loyalist POV). The Lion has his ego rubbed by Perturabo and gives him what he wants.

It's a long time since I read it, but that's my take.


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## brianizbrewtal (Jan 26, 2011)

Thanks increaso! Once again you've been helpful. It all makes better sense now. I can see why people didn't like this as much. It was decent, but I feel as if it lacked a lot of dialogue that it should have had. Though, the part where the Lion scythes his sword through the crowd of the Son of Horus was pretty bad ass. And the whole Warlord ownage part is stupid awesome. But to end my rant it was an ok book and surely it could've had more. Descent of Angels was better. Ohhh and lastly, I don't like the formula Mike Lee uses for his books. The whole years/places thing confuses me sometimes. Kind of like with Nagash the Sorceror. That was a hard book to finish :/


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## TooNu (May 4, 2011)

I remember enjoying reading this book, but at the same time thinking, "why do we need to know about this?". It's all backstory yes but along with Descent of Angels I think it could have been a 600 page book, leave out some of the obvious fat and stick to the meat and potatos of the story.

Which was essentially: Are the Dark Angels loyal or traitor, and why are we asking?

Or rather, the entire story should have gone to somebody else who makes less mistakes


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## brianizbrewtal (Jan 26, 2011)

^Agreed. It's just a tricky way to read a book for me with switching a point of view every other chapter. Well, I'm finished with it and on to A Thousand Sons, which I'm way too hooked on. It's so damn good.


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## Moriar the Forsaken (Apr 18, 2011)

brianizbrewtal said:


> So, I have just finished Fallen Angels and I wanted to get something cleared up, and yes I'm aware it's been discussed before.
> 
> 1) Luther, Zahariel and the lot on Caliban are against the Emperor and his vision? I wasn't too clear on that.
> 
> ...


1. Yes, because the Emperor's vision for Caliban involved the over-exploitation of its people and resources.

2. Lion did not know Perturabo was allied with Horus. Apparently he's not very good at politics.


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## TooNu (May 4, 2011)

I've always thought that the Lion :clapping:was just a bit naive compared to his brothers. He seems to me anyway that he could be easily manipulated or coerced into something and then when realising his mistake, he is likely to be more hurt and feel a greater sense of betrayal.

Hopefully he doesn't take it too badly in book 3  and exacts some righteous pain giving.

Oh and one day it would be nice to see him back from sleeping under the rock for so long, maybe his alarm clock just ran out of batteries.


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## brianizbrewtal (Jan 26, 2011)

Book three? Not that I dislike the Dark Angels, but shouldn't someone else get another turn? Oh wait, doesn't Caliban get blown to shit?


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## Vitarus (Apr 9, 2012)

I enjoyed this a good deal. Good battles; Librarian stuff; sorcerers & Chaos... But really, I'm pretty confused.
-How can the Emperor not have known about the taint of Caliban?
-How can other Terrans have known about it if the Emperor didn't?
-Why was Jonson so unforgiving to Luthor, Zahariel, and the others he sent back? (If he knew Luthor almost knowingly let it happen, he must have known Zahariel didn't. If he was just mad that they slipped up, why was Nemiel not sent home, too?)

Is The Purging of Kadillus the next DA book to read?


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

First, please keep post dates in mind next time; last post here was over a year ago.



Vitarus said:


> -Why was Jonson so unforgiving to Luthor, Zahariel, and the others he sent back? (If he knew Luthor almost knowingly let it happen, he must have known Zahariel didn't. If he was just mad that they slipped up, why was Nemiel not sent home, too?)


Because Zahariel figured out what Luther had contemplated but was willing to not inform the Lion. In a way, that told Johnson that if it came down to it, Zahariel sided with the decisions of Luther over his primarch; the Lion simply could not trust Zahariel, just like he could no longer trust Luther. (Or at least he believed that to be so.)



Vitarus said:


> Is The Purging of Kadillus the next DA book to read?


No, that is a Space Marine Battles book set during present 40k (well prior to the third war for Armageddon) surrounding the actions of the Dark Angels third company under the command of captain Belial.


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## Vitarus (Apr 9, 2012)

I don't have a very high opinion of Jonson. Heh




darkreever said:


> First, please keep post dates in mind next time; last post here was over a year ago.


Yeah, I knew that. The thread was buried. Why do you point it out?




darkreever said:


> No, that is a Space Marine Battles book set during present 40k (well prior to the third war for Armageddon) surrounding the actions of the Dark Angels third company under the command of captain Belial.


So what _is_ the next book to read?


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Vitarus said:


> I don't have a very high opinion of Jonson. Heh
> 
> 
> Yeah, I knew that. The thread was buried. Why do you point it out?
> ...


The story about Lion is continue in the short called _Savage Weapons_, written by ADB in _Age of Darkness_, when we find out the Dark Angels and the Night Lords have been battling in the Thramas sector for over 2 years in a stallmate (spelling?). Then they face each other in a honoureble dual.


The next is called _The Lion_, which is a novella written by Gav Thorpe in _The Primarchs_ anthology.


*SPOILERS***. Don't read this is you dont want spoilers.*
After the failed duel, the Lion travels to find a secret weapon he found during the Great Crusade.


The next is called _Prince of Crows_, in the _Shadows of Treachery_ anthology, which is actually a Night Lords tale, but the Dark Angels feature heavily in it and 

shows the ending of the Thramas crusade.


I hope that was of somehwat helpful for you.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I brought it up before. I thought it was interesting that Mike Lee thought it best that Perturabo would be the primarch that Lion El Johnson would go to for help. Especially when it is revealed by Perturabo himself that the Lion was one of those primarchs that used Perturabo and stole all his glory.

So to answer your question, the Lion was pretty stupid to ignore his previous relationship with Perturabo and trusted someone which he previously stabbed in the back to back him up.


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