# Svengar the Red,



## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Came across this bit of fluff.

Did a search. It wasn't brought up here before so I thought I would.

"_Svengar, also known as Svengar the Red, was a member of the Space Wolves. Searching for his lost Primarch, Svengar and his men find themselves transported far beyond the rim of the Galaxy, past even the Ghost Stars. 

For months Svengar's vessel moves through the dark void, heading towards a distant orb. Expecting trouble, instead they find a civilization of tall, fair people who live in luxury. 

Relieved, Svengar and his men relax and enjoy themselves, feasting and recounting tales of their deeds. 

It is only when Svengar *makes a casual pass at one of their women* that the Space Wolves realize that their hosts are not human at all. 

Though they fight bravely, Svengar and his men are never seen again_"

_Codex: Space Wolves (5th Edition) pg.18-21_


So two things.

1) Why would a Space Marine make a pass at a woman? Perhaps it was done to reinforce the idea that they're space vikings (this was before Abnett's Prospero Burn I imagine)?

2) Why would aliens pose as humans in an extremely remote location? Or maybe to the Space Wolves, they appeared as humans via psychic abilities/xenos-tech?


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## Dragblud da scrunka (Mar 26, 2009)

I guess beacouse they are space wolves their primal instincts let loose! Maybe due to the reduced number of aliens they need to reproduce and thought they would work, they are succubus-like race that will consume them for sustanence and other nasty stuff. 

Maaybe they were daemons of slaanesh? It seems such a short passage with no details hardly its up for hugee increasing crazy ideas. 

My final idea is that they are Brain boyz in disguise trying to return and are using the shuttle of svengar to return collect all the orks and turn everything into mush....


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

As fluff, in a codex no less, it's pretty useless. Hearing about a character that emerges and disappears within the four descriptive paragraphs, in a place that no other character can even imagine themselves back to because, no one ever made it back to ever recount where, when or what they did. Huh?

Plus, how do you make a casual pass at a woman that would provide you enough physiological information to confirm that she is or is not a **** sapiens, when you could not otherwise tell by their normal appearance? Plenty of jokes/stories/stereotypes about heterosexuals discovering their paramour is actually transgender, but none of those can be called a 'casual' pass. Granted, these are the SWs, so perhaps he smelled something he didn't like :alcoholic:


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

It's just a bit of description that reinforces the view that the Space Wolves are the most human of all the Space Marines...

Plus it adds to the 'viking boys on tour' feel of the chapter. Drinking mead and chatting up the local senoritas!

To say the text is useless is a little unfair. It tells us there are worlds beyond the galaxy, that there are sentient life forms that must have at least come in to contact with humans in order to mimic them and that Space Marines are still human at the end of the day (and that thier gentleman's plumbing must work fine if that Wolf anticipated doing anything other than heavy petting, which has long been a question of many).

As a SW player, this is one of my favourite pieces of background in the codex and I often use it as an example of just how manly my army is 

Rev


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Why would a Space Marine make a pass at a woman?


Personally this is hard to beleive that GW would even put that in a Codex. Viking Space boys" or not they are SM's, not your run of the mill humans. Someone I think was high as hell on weed when they wrote that :suicide:

For arguements sake though, I'm interested as to why they suddenly went from grim, dark 40k universe to something akin of Macross. I mean am I the only one that thinks these "tall, fair, rich folks" sound like pacified Zentradi? 

Plus if they are tall, then they must stand above the Marines themselves. See as an avergae Marine is well over 6'5" thats giant; like beyond Muhammad Ali. Sounds like filler to me.



Malus Darkblade said:


> Why would aliens pose as humans in an extremely remote location


Like an Star Trek episode I saw once, they pose as humans to woefully bring in the Marines so they never leave. Then brainwash the blokes, simple and easy. Again, as I said above, sounds like Zentradi too me.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

I'm for making the wolves the closest to being human. 

They are one of only a few chapters that will go out of their way to help humans I can fully see the wolves joining PDF troops in victory celebrations after defeating a vanquished foe.


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

Reaper45 said:


> They are one of only a few chapters that will go out of their way to help humans I can fully see the wolves joining PDF troops in victory celebrations after defeating a vanquished foe.


You should read the comic Lone Wolves. They have a funeral with the guard and then make a last stand. They care...

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/lone-wolves-direct-exclusive.html


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

TheReverend said:


> You should read the comic Lone Wolves. They have a funeral with the guard and then make a last stand. They care...
> 
> http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/lone-wolves-direct-exclusive.html


If it was an Ebook I'd buy it but it isn't.


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

Reaper45 said:


> I'm for making the wolves the closest to being human.
> 
> They are one of only a few chapters that will go out of their way to help humans I can fully see the wolves joining PDF troops in victory celebrations after defeating a vanquished foe.


Apart from their looks I'd say the Salamanders are the closest to being human. Closer even than the Space Wolves. 

To quote the Lexicanum:

"Other aspects of the legion of Vulkan are their great hardiness as warriors and their equally strong constitutions, willpower and devotion to humanity."

Re the third was for Armageddon: "Of the fully twenty chapters, only the Salamanders fought for the people of Armageddon. According to rumors, Tu'Shan himself came to blows with Captain Vinyar of the Marines Malevolent, when the latter shelled a refugee camp the Orks had penetrated.[7] Vinyar is said to have left the civilians to die because he "hadn´t time" to defend them, a notion which greatly angered the Chapter Master.[3] After the Season of Fire, only two Companies were left to protect the major population centers, while the Chapter's Techmarines have been busy rebuilding the destroyed infrastructure."

Can you imagine another Chapter agreeing to protect the population centres as opposed to actively fighting?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

First war for Armageddon.

The SW lost several ships and men to defend potentially tainted humans.


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> First war for Armageddon.
> 
> The SW lost several ships and men to defend potentially tainted humans.


I'm not denying the Space Wolves are also closer to humanity than many other Chapters. However I feel the Salamanders are the closest as it seems to be written into their fluff.

That the SWs subsequently came to blows with the Inquisition regarding the destruction of Armageddon's population following the war definitely shows they care for humanity in general however I think the difference is that the Salamanders are willing to sacrifice the glories of actual battle to take on protective roles for the civilian population. I cannot see the SWs doing this as they are famous for their love of battle.

In addition the Salamanders don't hold themselves aloof from the inhabitants of their homeworld and freely mingle with them (I'm sure this was in their IA article and hasn't been retconned or contradicted in the more recent info regarding them.) The SWs do hold themselves aloof from the Fenrisians.

I wonder if there is a subtle message from GW about not judging a book by it's cover since visually, the Salamanders and the SWs are some of the more different in appearance to general humanity (black skin, glowing eyes, huge fangs etc) than most of the Space Marines and yet their attitudes are more "human" than many of the other Space Marines.

To finalise, in my opinion, the Salamanders would get a 9 out of 10 on the humanity scale while the SWs would get an 8½ out of 10. They're both very close to humanity but I think the Salamanders are slightly closer. Obviously I respect everyone's different opinions on this and don't expect anyone to agree with me. However it's just what I think.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Ah. I agree with you then.

In any case, going back to the topic of this thread, according to the 6th edition Chaos Codex, Astartes are still _ men_, and even the Grey Knights are no exception:

"_The wanderer made his way through fields of golden light and soft hay, were lissom maidens and beautiful youths flocked near-naked in the hallucinogenic musk of the lithe beasts that cavorted with them. The faces and fertile forms of the dancers were impossibly sensual, molded to the perfect desire of the observer's heart. 

The knight held his breath and closed his eyes, for though mortal pleasures were forbidden to his order, part of him was still a man. The crooning nymphs gathered around the knight, stroking his silvered armor and whispering of the sweet, carnal pleasures they would give him, but he yielded not. 

The severed limbs and heads that lay underfoot spoke of the truth behind the honeyed lies. Eyes shut, he cut down the Daemonette seductresses around him one after another, letting revulsion guide his shining blade._"

I'm not sure what to make of it. The Codex is teeming with contradictions in both the same codex and the fluff in general. 

For example, in the same section of the codex, the knight passes by enticing displays of wealth beyond imagining but shrugs it off because '_the knight had left notions of material wealth behind_,' even though greed is innate to man just as lust is.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

zerachiel76 said:


> I'm not denying the Space Wolves are also closer to humanity than many other Chapters. However I feel the Salamanders are the closest as it seems to be written into their fluff.
> 
> That the SWs subsequently came to blows with the Inquisition regarding the destruction of Armageddon's population following the war definitely shows they care for humanity in general however I think the difference is that the Salamanders are willing to sacrifice the glories of actual battle to take on protective roles for the civilian population. I cannot see the SWs doing this as they are famous for their love of battle.
> 
> ...


Fenris is a world that hasn't changed in 10,000 years. Russ could have had it terra formed into an edenic paradise. Yet he chose to leave it as it was.

The SW's entire culture is based around legends To the natives of fenris they are the warriors of myth ones who come to bring the greatest of their number to become demigods. 

Having sagas of warriors chosen by rune priests gives all reason to better themselves so that they might be chosen.

Also if you read battle of the fang you find several examples of SW's sacrificing themselves to save squads of their serfs. To the wolves in battle all are equal.


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

Reaper45 said:


> Fenris is a world that hasn't changed in 10,000 years. Russ could have had it terra formed into an edenic paradise. Yet he chose to leave it as it was.
> 
> The SW's entire culture is based around legends To the natives of fenris they are the warriors of myth ones who come to bring the greatest of their number to become demigods.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your thoughts and I agree with what you've said about Fenris. However, as far as I'm aware even Vulkan didn't have his planet terraformed either so the point is equally valid about the Salamanders too.

Battle of the Fang is a great novel and I think I remember the parts you refer to. However serfs are part of the SW Chapter (rather than legion by that stage) and I believe that the Salamanders would no only do the same with their own serfs but the fluff we've been given leads me to believe they would also protect and sacrifice themselves to save humans with no link to them at all - such as the refugees on Armageddon.

As I said in my earlier post I think both Chapters are at the top of the humanity scale, but I think the Salamanders just pip the SWs to the top position due to their willingness to give up the change to take the fight to the enemy to basically act as bodyguards to refugees and other helpless non combatant humans, whereas the SWs in my opinion would not give up the change to take the fight to the enemy.


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