# Against...Dual Orbital Bombs



## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Could anyone help me with how to kill two chapter masters before they can unleash their orbital bombs or how to not get crippled by the bombs when they do drop. The problem is that they are shielded by a terminator assault squad with three storm shields and a crusader. Has anyone gone up against an army like this or have any ideas on how to bring them down?


----------



## jasonfly (Feb 1, 2009)

spread your units out, get lucky and find a way to kill them, use cover, or give your opponent a scatter die that always misses. If both are in a LRC with a terminator escort, im not really sure what to do aside from that.


----------



## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Don't know how you'll do it, but try and keep them moving, as far as i know they can't launch a orbital bombardment unless they haven't moved that turn. So yeah try and force him to remain mobile, if it were me i would use DSing vendettas to try and get him to have to move the land raider into cover/out of LOS, or if you're lucky blow the Land raider out of this reality.

Again if you can destroy the transport assault them, with anything you can, if they can survive a round then of combat then you buy yoursel more time to bring something more powerful to bear.


----------



## Strange Dude (Jul 15, 2008)

2 orbital bombardments that are used like heavy weapons and scatter full distance regardless of BS. You don't have to indeed I think it would be quite hard to kill them before they fire, depends what army your playing but for tau just keep all your units in transports with disruption pods (4+ obscurement save).


----------



## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

These are barrage weapons, so no cover saves from the d-pod. If I tried to put everything that I could in a vehicle I would have nothing but fire warriors and hammerheads and a solo commander. The devilfish cost 120 points and fire warriors need to pray to do anything against marines. I think I may just have to write this opponent off as a loss.


----------



## Strange Dude (Jul 15, 2008)

I'd argue that you don't get a cover save barrage says 'to determine if a unit is wounded by a barrage weapon is allowed a cover save, always assume the shot is coming from the centre of the marker, instead of from the model.' but a disruption pod works on distance from firer to target the shots direction doesn't matter.

Also in your scenario your opponent only gets 2 orbital bombardments *per game* and as I previously said they scatter the full amount and to damage a vehicle the hole at the centre of the pie plate has to be over the hull of that vehicle.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Piranha spam. The piranha is small enough that they'll likely scatter off them, and when they're buzzing in his face they'll be the most immediate threat. Screw up his target priority by putting stuff in his face that can do serious harm if ignored.


----------



## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Here's my list. I don't have any piranhas, so that might be impractically expensive. The problem I have with spamming Piranhas is that they would have to get so close that they would be ripped to shreds before they could do any real damage. My opponent usually targets my commander's squad and/or my broadsides. I've tried to line up my units so that the bombs could only hit three (best possible), but i've still failed to figure out how to position my units so that I won't get charged.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Well, since I don't even own the Dex I'll not post on the list itself, but have you considered Kroot instead of Fire Warriors? I'll admit that most of the Tau-related material I see is from YTTH, and the most recent 1500 point Tau list I could find Stelek rated featured 6 FW, a unit of 12 Kroot, and a unit of 10 with 5 Hounds. That's 244 points total. Since your 3 Troops are 561, that's quite a saving.


----------



## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

can you really have 2 chapter masters in one list? cause that seems strange considering theres only one chapter master per chapter

But yeah, maybe small squads if thats possible, with them spread out to minimize damage, reserves could come in handy, hope you lucky and they come in late game where his bombardments will be less useful.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Not sure that's viable Lawrence...the Chapter Masters probably cost <150 each, so they're only 300 points or so of the list. Coming in all in Reserve leaves 1200 to kill your dribs and drabs.

*Cough cough, didn't say anything stupid here cough*


----------



## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Erm... 2 chapter masters... erm... *raises an eyebrow* I doubt thats legal...

Dude, you have the most powerful gun in the bloody game! Rip the LR to pieces with railguns then shoot with all your might at the survivors. Offense is the best defense they say.


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Yeah look, I think your best option is:

When they get out to get ready for it, charge them.
You won't do much damage, they'll do heaps, but you'll delay them.

If his retinue is packed with TH/SS termies, then you can't do SHIT to them.
You're best off shooting them with FW, and charging with Kroot, that'll get the volume of wounds you need to fuck them up, and if you pin them ALL THE BETTER!


----------



## Tigirus (Apr 13, 2008)

best thing to do, and I've had this use on me.... is drones. 
Drop them from your piranhas, devilish, whatever. Best thing about 
them is that their guns are pinning and that they are free.

Try firing at them, if they're pinned perfect, wait and then shoot 
them again next turn. He can't fire orbital bombardments if he's pinned. 

If you don't pin them, charge. It may seem like suicide 
(which it is) but this allows you to stop them from firing 
for a short while and best yet the drones are free so no loss.


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Tigirus said:


> best thing to do, and I've had this use on me.... is drones.
> Drop them from your piranhas, devilish, whatever. Best thing about
> them is that their guns are pinning and that they are free.
> 
> ...


Unless you're playing Annihilation, in which case the Drones are a major kick in the nuts.


----------



## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

Khorothis said:


> Erm... 2 chapter masters... erm... *raises an eyebrow* I doubt thats legal...


actualy it is, and they are slightly cheaper than TheKingElessar stated. they have the same stats as a captain, so i assume they are just advanced captains who can call down an orbital strike once a game.

literly, with the captain you are paying an extra 25pts for a captian who can call an orbital strike.


----------



## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

There have been a few good suggestions here. I'd like to add though, that a really good check of the rules would also be a good idea.

I can't really see how this is working so well. They may not use their orbital bombardment on the turn they get out of their land raider, or from inside the land raider. They can't use it if in cc. So instead of having the tank drive up and the guys inside assault, you have to drive up, waste a turn (during which you may assault a unit), then shoot it next turn and not assault. Of course, you can only fire once.

Personally I think this is bizarre. He's buying a land raider, terminator assault squad and 2 chapter masters for 2 ordnance shots. Why the hell not just buy a vindicator that can fire each turn without crippling the assault terminators? Why not just let the termies go on their own and smack the tau around the place? These guys come in over 700 points, all deployed in one tank at the start. I don't see how this could possibly be good unless something is being done wrongly. Is he firing after moving, firing and then assaulting or firing more than once? Maybe he has the scatter rules wrong, as it's hardly accurate. Even with 2 hits it shouldn't be possible to come near 700 points worth of damage.


----------



## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Yeah, I played this guy yesterday and his tactics have changed. For a while he did start out his chapter master and Pedro in the LRC, but after I reminded him of the rules for disembarking he now starts them behind it, out of LOS from my army. Turn one he drops the bombs, turn two they embark, join the terminators and the LRC races forward toward my line. Sorry about not accurately portraying the problem the first time. It's a good strategy, I'm just trying to figure out how to beat it. I might just reserve everything and deep strike on him if he waits for my army to show up.


----------



## papa_funk (Oct 6, 2008)

Edit: Curse my slow typing combined with a long post.

If I remember right, I think he typically runs the two masters and TH/SS termies in a Crusader, some foot slogging tac squads, and some ML Devastators.

What if you use a Shas'el with a relay like you did the last time I faced you? However, keep everything else in reserve. Do a modified ninja Tau list.

Place the Shas'el with a relay and shield gen. in cover or out of range of his Devastator squads if possible.

If he uses the bombs at the start, hopefully you can pass the invul save to keep the commander. If you fail the save, at least the only thing it took out was one suit. At best, he uses both on the Shas'el and he passes both.

If the commander survives to turn 2, I'd use the relay to bring on a railhead. I'm not entirely sure, but the railhead with a Disruption Pod will get the obscured cover save if he tries to bomb it. You can start using its range to take some pot shots at the LR to strand his CC Termies or take out a handful of marines. Another riskier choice would be bringing in the TL fusion team to take out the LR, but they could scatter too far away and then just be obliterated.

In turn 3, if he has used both of his bombs, I'd probably just roll like normal for the rest of the reserves. With your greater range and mobility, you can hopefully send fish towards any objectives while taking pot shots at his troops. You could use the relay again if you wanted. (Maybe for pathfinders in their fish. They can deploy in cover to be ready to help the rest of your army coming on next turn, and the fish will be able to be used next turn to help any deepstriking suits.)

Here's my thinking:

Keeping your army in reserve forces him to think about when and where to use his bombs. Since his masters must not move and cannot be in the LR in order to use it, his most obvious and easiest time to use it is the first turn; he can deploy his masters near the LR, drop the bombs, then hop in next turn. With one model to drop the bombs on, he must decided between the two following options.

If he uses them first turn, he can use the bombs to try and kill the Shas'el. (Which may cause your army to come in piecemeal). This hurts you less than he might hope because you have more transports, JSJ, and typically longer range. Plus, this means that one or both of his bombs went towards killing one model.

If he doesn't use them first turn, he can keep his masters standing still to use the bombs at any time, but that means that their cc abilities are wasted.

He can also have them get in the LR and advance. This makes it difficult for him to use the bomb for the rest of the game (since they basically stand still for two turns). Since your army is in reserve, they can try to stay far away from the LR so you have more time to destroy/immobilize it.

This can be more of a gamble, but I think it could work. It forces him to guess what you will be doing while you get to respond to the decisions he makes.

Hopefully I can watch the next time you face him.


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Listen to papa_funk, that's some great advice.
Turn 2, he's say, used one big bomb in an attempt to kill the commander, and failed.
2+ roll to bring on a Hammerhead with Railgun, you get it in, use some markerlight drones from the commander on the Land Raider, hit on a 2+, good chance to SERIOUSLY cripple the core of his forces.

So yeah, Shas'el (all you need), positional relay, 2 markerlight drones, shield generator, and a gun I guess (missile pod, old faithful).
Use your army right and you'll screw him over.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Someguy, I think it's just the way your post was worded, but did you forget that you _can_ Assault after using the Bombardment. even though it's Ordnance?


@Dafistofmork: I was assuming they are also in Terminator Armour, or carry some form of upgrade


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Someguy, I think it's just the way your post was worded, but did you forget that you _can_ Assault after using the Bombardment. even though it's Ordnance?
> 
> 
> @Dafistofmork: I was assuming they are also in Terminator Armour, or carry some form of upgrade


Actually with just Terminator armour (Kantor can't get anything though), you get a Storm bolter and Power sword, that's not too bad.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Pedro + 'naked' Chapter Master = 300 on the button. 

Love it when people think I was guessing, not deducing logically...:wink:

Only thing is, I forgot they didn't pay like Chaplains and Libbys for Termie armour, so calculated wrongly.


----------



## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

TheKingElessar said:


> Someguy, I think it's just the way your post was worded, but did you forget that you _can_ Assault after using the Bombardment. even though it's Ordnance?


That's my bad, I forgot that. Honestly not sure I've ever run a chapter master myself. As Underground Heretic has it now, I can actually see how the tactic works. I'd still just take a vindicator or two instead myself.

Coming on from reserve is an option. However, in my opinion you do want your railguns firing on turn one. Stopping an enemy transport before it carries the guys inside it towards you is a big deal. I'd go the other way and DS the crisis suits, maybe, and put pressure on your opponent's home objectives. All those points he's spending can only be in one place after all, and they aren't scoring.

Hammerheads are good here. They are tricky to hit with scattering ordnance and their disruption pods and they can race away from the assault termies.

In objective games with Tau, you can use your mobility well I think. There's a trick you can do by *not* holding objectives early in the game. If you stay a bit away, your opponent has to decide whether to go for the objective or for your guys, but if you sit on the flag he gets 2 for 1. This is a really good way to make your opponent split his force up and beat himself.


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Stupid question but, Does orbital Bombardment need LoS?


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Nope, it does not.


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Dammit.

I was gonna just suggest hiding like a coward behind trees?

there goes my plan 

lmao


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

:laugh: Hiding IN trees might work, with the cover, but that's been said, many times.


----------



## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

The problem I'm having is that the Railhead is less accurate than broadsides and the D-pod is unreliable, amazing when it works, but that's about 1/3 of the time. Admittedly it's probably just me, but I can never get my dice to roll up to what I need or even average. Tactically speaking, the Railhead might just be the answer or a reserve strike, I just don't know if the dice will hold up their end.

Someguy, I was wondering how to get my opponent to actually try to claim an objective. Most games I play my opponent simply tries, and usually succeeds in tabling me, thus winning without needing to worry about objectives. I would really appreciate your input on the list I'm trying to put together, with your experience with Tau. It seems that most games I play might as well be annihilation.


----------



## skate4life (Jul 14, 2009)

get as close as him as possibla and then he might not because it might scatter onto him


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

skate4life said:


> get as close as him as possibla and then he might not because it might scatter onto him


2 flaws:
1) I's unlikely he can get his whole army within 7" to make it too risky to fire (and, IMO, it still wouldn't be)
2) The Chapter Masters are in the best CC unit in the game. TAU don't really want to close with them.


----------



## LoganFireclaw (Jul 23, 2009)

gogo shield drones? Might be considered expensive to deny the lethality of the orbital strikes but 4+ invuls are always good. Not sure if you'll like it but I like massive amounts of shield drones with shield generators on key suits... at least against MEQ or TEQ. Even if adding two shield drones raises the number of hits to 3, the odds of losing all 4+ is a fraction of missing 1. I also liked the suggestion of Piranhas, definitely think that would work. Your best bet is to play a little NinjaTau as has already been suggested. Not only would I consider this the best option for this situation, but the best option for Tau overall.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

No, Shield Drones will increase the squad's footprint, and make it easier to hit them.


----------

