# Best Aaron Dembski-Bowden Novel?



## Commander Firebrand (Aug 27, 2013)

One of the Black Library writers I hear talked about the most is ADB and it got me curious so I checked in to what his next project was and I have got to say the new Black Legion series he's helming sounds fucking awesome, but since I haven't actually read any of his past novels I wanted to ask you guys what you consider his best work?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Helsreach/blood & fire


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## aerogems (May 16, 2013)

For me, I'd have to say it was The First Heretic in the Horus Heresy series. I say that as someone who put off reading that novel for the longest time because I wasn't really interested in a bunch of religious zealots like the Word Bearers. So I read every other HH novel that was out to date at that time, which was around the time of Battle for the Abyss kind of dreading the point when I'd have no more HH books to read but that one. So I went into it with a more than healthy bit of trepidation and despite that it just blew me away. It does such an amazing job of humanizing the fall of Lorgar, from being humiliated in front of his legion by The Emperor to going on his pilgrimage to the legion's eventual descent into Chaos.

However, if you want something a little more one-off, I'd suggest either Cadian Blood or Emperor's Gift. Helsreach wasn't my personal favorite, though I did so enjoy the way he played Andrej and Grimaldus off one another and I don't want to give the impression it was a bad book, it just didn't grab me quite the way his other works have. His Night Lords trilogy started off a touch stiff, but got better as it went along.


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## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr (Apr 3, 2012)

wish he would pick up a Space wolf novel, instead of these failures who keep making books without seeming to read any past history of their subject their reading upon.

its almost as bad as twilight vampires, that dont burn in the sun or have to really drink human blood, the two things that make a vampire... a vampire.


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## Commander Firebrand (Aug 27, 2013)

The_Werewolf_Arngeirr said:


> wish he would pick up a Space wolf novel, instead of these failures who keep making books without seeming to read any past history of their subject their reading upon.
> 
> its almost as bad as twilight vampires, that dont burn in the sun or have to really drink human blood, the two things that make a vampire... a vampire.


Huh?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

_Void Stalker_. Which is also my favourite novel. Period.


LotN


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## Commander Firebrand (Aug 27, 2013)

Lord of the Night said:


> _Void Stalker_. Which is also my favourite novel. Period.
> 
> 
> LotN


I never would have guessed


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

_Helsreach _ alongside _Blood & Fire_.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Tough one this. While I love the Night Lords trilogy and _The Emperor's Gift_, I'm stuck between _First Heretic _and _Helsreach_. Probably FH. That may change later though.


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## Shadow Walker (Jun 10, 2010)

The First Heretic


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## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

The_Werewolf_Arngeirr said:


> wish he would pick up a Space wolf novel, instead of these failures who keep making books without seeming to read any past history of their subject their reading upon.
> 
> its almost as bad as twilight vampires, that dont burn in the sun or have to really drink human blood, the two things that make a vampire... a vampire.


Dont get you at all.... SW now are really something, before they were almost a joke.


Back on topic, Helsreach for me totally. Still havent got chance to read Cadian Blood but he is really good with his take on marines. All his books have been good so far.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Roninman said:


> Dont get you at all.... SW now are really something, before they were almost a joke.


I think he is referring to Chris Wraight's seeming ignorance of basic SW fluff before writing 2 novels and a few shorts about them.


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## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr (Apr 3, 2012)

Khorne's Fist said:


> I think he is referring to Chris Wraight's seeming ignorance of basic SW fluff before writing 2 novels and a few shorts about them.


^- this. I want to see ADB give wolves some good literature.


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## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

Probably an unpopular choice but I'm partial to 'For the Fallen', I know it's a short but I think it's one of his best


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## Choodie (Sep 2, 2013)

First Heretic & The Night Lords books.. So goood.


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## aerogems (May 16, 2013)

The_Werewolf_Arngeirr said:


> ^- this. I want to see ADB give wolves some good literature.


I would like to see someone finish out Ragnar's story. Seems like there was 1, maybe 2 more books left in his tale, but all three previous authors seem to have stopped working on the SW series. So if ADB needs a bit of a break in between Black Legion stuff, I'd be all for him taking up the SW mantle. 

Honestly, ADB is way too good a writer to be confined to a rather small-time publisher like Black Library, but I'm personally quite happy to read whatever he writes for as long as he wants to slum it.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

aerogems said:


> Honestly, ADB is way too good a writer to be confined to a rather small-time publisher like Black Library, but I'm personally quite happy to read whatever he writes for as long as he wants to slum it.


He once said (on HO I think!) he put to BL a proposal to write a Dark Eldar novel with filled with ultra violence, torture and hedonistic sex. It was knocked back. Now THAT would be a novel i'd buy!

Sorry... Back OT. _The First Heretic_ is my favourite work of his so far.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I like all his novels equally, none of them stand out for me as they are all good in their own individual ways.


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## sadLor (Jan 18, 2012)

Khorne's Fist said:


> I think he is referring to Chris Wraight's seeming ignorance of basic SW fluff before writing 2 novels and a few shorts about them.


That may be so but I can't be the only one who cares more about well-written literature than accurate fluff. Battle of the Fang is my favourite SMB book (sorry Helsreach). There wasn't a single moment in the book where I went "Ohhhhh this fluff is so wrong." It was a fantastic read and I just wanted to keep reading. Besides ADB, CW would be fav BL author. If it came down to more SW novels and it was down to CW vs non-ADB author who happens to know his SW fluff, I'll prefer CW everytime.

As for favourite ADB book, it has to be one of the 3 Night Lords novels. I can't really pick one.


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## Bobbyfbrewster (Oct 14, 2011)

Has to be soul hunter such a surprise going in was not expecting much but wow what a read plus talos talking smack to the warmaster best thing ever


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## LazyG (Sep 15, 2008)

Weird, I think he is great and First Heretic / Betrayer are stunning, and the Nl novels are great, but i found Helsreach incredibly Meh. I was surprised to note it was him writing it.


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## Sequere_me_in_Tenebras (Nov 11, 2012)

Void Stalker is by far his best work - though First Heretic comes a close second.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

I first read soul hunter, to me that was a very positive surprise, also liked blood reaver, in Hellsreach I found the BT very 2-dimensional, but still enjoyed the book. Liked void stalker, but less than the other NL books, I guess I felt the loyalists are described as tight-arse cunts, certainly if you read how Sevatar is described, WTF. Anyhow, the emperor's gift was very solid as was betrayer, but also here the UM did not really impress in any way.
For me he is a great writer (at the same level as C. Wright), but he will only be superb if he can describe a loyalist which gives me the same feeling as e.g. Talos, Xarl, Sevatar, Kharn, ... (except Orfeo, he was interesting for about five minutes, until he got the end which one would not expect from the future prince of Khorn , a clean warrior's dead).


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I would which book that changed me! Prior to reading ADB I hated the Night Lords. I absolutly hated them how they looked and was just weird. Now I absolutly adore them, collect an huge army comprised after characters he created. I would say _Soul Hunter_ is his best work since it radically changed something so big. I would probably have said _The First Heretic_ if I had read that first.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Blood Reaver, when Talos was at a comfortable spot in between being the good guy and the bad guy.

Midnight


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## LazyG (Sep 15, 2008)

piemelke said:


> in Hellsreach I found the BT very 2-dimensional, but still enjoyed the book.


Exactly, Grimaldus was just 'hurr durr I wish i was in space with my brethren, hurr durr everything is going to shit." Versus say The First Heretic with Argel Tal and Talos in the NL series, who are incredibly multi-dimensional, among the most complex in the 40k milieu.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

LazyG said:


> Exactly, Grimaldus was just 'hurr durr I wish i was in space with my brethren, hurr durr everything is going to shit." Versus say The First Heretic with Argel Tal and Talos in the NL series, who are incredibly multi-dimensional, among the most complex in the 40k milieu.


The same goes for the genesis marines in soul hunter, the reasoning behind it that the loyalist marines indeed are 2-D dogmatic bombastic cunts, which is fair although I do not like it.
I also fail to see why the heretics, who started from a similar condition, suddenly get mojo.


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## Choodie (Sep 2, 2013)

I miss Argel Tal :cray:


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## LazyG (Sep 15, 2008)

I especially liked him in Betrayer, the relationship with Kharn was incredibly well done.


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## Karthak (Jul 25, 2010)

piemelke said:


> The same goes for the genesis marines in soul hunter, the reasoning behind it that the loyalist marines indeed are 2-D dogmatic bombastic cunts, which is fair although I do not like it.
> I also fail to see why the heretics, who started from a similar condition, suddenly get mojo.


Well, isn't that because modern Astartes are brainwashed in a way that the Great Crusade - Era Legions weren't?


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

Karthak said:


> Well, isn't that because modern Astartes are brainwashed in a way that the Great Crusade - Era Legions weren't?


fair point, I would say they were equally autistic battle monks, I do not know of the modern sm is more brainwashed than the 30k ones ? Does not sound implausible,


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Karthak said:


> Well, isn't that because modern Astartes are brainwashed in a way that the Great Crusade - Era Legions weren't?


Got it in one.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I don't see how people can call the Genesis champion one dimensional either, least as a criticism. We see him in all of one scene, in one situation. He's fighting Night Lords, traitors from the time of the Great Crusade and Heresy itself, I wouldn't be expecting him to act in any other way than he does. How is he going to display any depth or more characterisation in such a short time? Were you expecting him to be light hearted, start cracking jokes in the middle of the duel or just have a change of mood?

Just one of those criticisms that doesn't sit right with me.


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## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr (Apr 3, 2012)

yeah that criticism cant be made with the short time frame and the conditions of where the dimensions come from. add to Dead.Blue.Crown did just confirm why hes like that lol.


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

Tough one for me. Helsreach was the first book I picked up by him, and I though it was great. My favorite part was when they were in the Temple of the Emperor Ascendant during their last stand. The First Heretic was another good one as was Betrayer. Only three i've read by ADB.

Guess I'll have to go with Betrayer because of the World Eaters. They're my favorite traitor legion, and I have play styles reminiscent of the World Eaters when I game with clan buddies on xbox or PC. World Eaters. Gotta love em.


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## Chaplain-Grimaldus (Aug 4, 2013)

The first heretic. Hands down one of the best books I have read.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

_The Emperor's Gift_.

The novel focused on an ideological conflict more than a physical one, I thought, and while the Armageddon scene was short, brutal and full of continuity flavour, it only served as the backdrop to something even more interesting. The novel places the reader in the unique position of judgement its characters can't afford, and I regularly found myself debating the rights and wrongs of each organisation in my free time.


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## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

I would say Void Stalker. An excellent finish to an excellent trilogy. Props to having one of the best portrayals of the sons of Guilliman and the Codex Astartes in action. Plus it took the Night Lords away from the ''Those guys who always use Raptors'' image many people had of them.

EDIT: Removed comment.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Gree said:


> Especially with the retcons near the end of the book. It contained alot of cool stuff about the Grey Knights, but it also contained a bunch of stuff I disliked or disagreed with.


I disagree that the plot of TEG was a retcon, it was an addition to what we already knew. ADB has said that the Codex's are meant to be considered as the in-universe text, and thus are mythical and often not 100% accurate due to the Imperium's record keeping. But the books are what actually happened, so it makes sense the the events in TEG would not be in a Codex because there's no way in hell the Imperium would want records of the Months of Shame anywhere. So the Codex's wouldn't have that information, but the books do.


LotN


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## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> I disagree that the plot of TEG was a retcon, it was an addition to what we already knew.


In prior fluff Grimnar was simply noted to have ''obstructed the Inquisition's agents'' which gave the Inquisition greater reason to pay more attention to the Space Wolves. In the book the Space Wolves kill a Grey Knights Grand Master and engage in open warfare over the Fenris before it's all finally called off.

Either it's a retcon or the understatement of the century.



Lord of the Night said:


> ADB has said that the Codex's are meant to be considered as the in-universe text, and thus are mythical and often not 100% accurate due to the Imperium's record keeping. But the books are what actually happened, so it makes sense the the events in TEG would not be in a Codex because there's no way in hell the Imperium would want records of the Months of Shame anywhere. So the Codex's wouldn't have that information, but the books do.


ADB has also said on multiple occasions that there is no canon and it's all up to one's personal interpretation. He even wrote a blog post on ''loose canon''. 

Was that a forum post in which he said it? Can you actually provide context?


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## Lupe (Jan 3, 2011)

Gree said:


> I would say Void Stalker
> Honestly? I thought it was the weakest of his novels, being too favorable to the Wolves in many parts.. It's not a knock against the author, but it's one of those few 40k novels by him that I didn't enjoy at all, especially with the retcons near the end of the book. It contained alot of cool stuff about the Grey Knights, but it also contained a bunch of stuff I disliked or disagreed with.


Really? What's so favorable to the Wolves about it? 

The part where almost the entire chapter goes to war against roughly one company of Grey Knights - who aren't even that keen on fighting the Wolves in the first place? Or the fact that an 800 year old genetically engineered superhuman is better at planning a large scale guerilla war than the average Inquisitor? Or the fact that they narrowly avoid elimination simply because of the blinding awe that people in the 41st millenium experience when merely being around a living relic from the days their god walked among men?

Because from where I'm standing, the Wolves look more like they caught a lucky break, than anything else, really...


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## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

Lupe said:


> Really? What's so favorable to the Wolves about it?
> 
> The part where almost the entire chapter goes to war against roughly one company of Grey Knights - who aren't even that keen on fighting the Wolves in the first place? Or the fact that an 800 year old genetically engineered superhuman is better at planning a large scale guerilla war than the average Inquisitor? Or the fact that they narrowly avoid elimination simply because of the blinding awe that people in the 41st millenium experience when merely being around a living relic from the days their god walked among men?
> 
> Because from where I'm standing, the Wolves look more like they caught a lucky break, than anything else, really...


Urggh. If I had known that comment would have caused consternation I would have never have posted it. 

Anyway, to answer your question, it very much portrays the noble Space Wolves pitted against the evil Inquisition and their duty-bound Grey Knight allies. You have a Grey Knight Grand Master portrayed as a rather ambitious and arrogant jerk who is then easily killed by Logan Grimnar in a single blow.

You basically have the Space Wolves kill a Grey Knight Grand Master, then kill an important Ordo Malleus Inquisitor before engaging the Inquisition in full scale warfare over Fenris before the Inquisition is forced to back off without really doing much of anything to the Wolves.

I have actually discussed that with the author before, and it very much wasn't his intention to have it one-sided in any particular way. It was the intention to have grey and grey morality. But that wasn't the impression _I _got from reading it. I very much walked away seeing this as favorable to the Space Wolves rather than the Grey Knights. 

The above is merely my opinion and personal interpretation of course. Everybody is subject to their own look of course.


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## Anakwanar (Sep 26, 2011)

> Anyway, to answer your question, it very much portrays the noble Space Wolves pitted against the evil Inquisition and their duty-bound Grey Knight allies. You have a Grey Knight Grand Master portrayed as a rather ambitious and arrogant jerk who is then easily killed by Logan Grimnar in a single blow.
> 
> You basically have the Space Wolves kill a Grey Knight Grand Master, then kill an important Ordo Malleus Inquisitor before engaging the Inquisition in full scale warfare over Fenris before the Inquisition is forced to back off without really doing much of anything to the Wolves.
> 
> I have actually discussed that with the author before, and it very much wasn't his intention to have it one-sided in any particular way. It was the intention to have grey and grey morality. But that wasn't the impression I got from reading it. I very much walked away seeing this as favorable to the Space Wolves rather than the Grey Knights.


 My point exactly. I had asked Aaron - why this is the way it is, and he answered very simple - because :laugh: In the moment of writing of that particular novel he feels this way - so he wrote it that way. 
You don't like it. Ok - deal with it. He doesn't care.

I for example hate his description of attack by Ultramarine rag tag fleet on Conqueror, Fidelitas Lex and Trisagion.
Because - in every scenario, even if Trisagion is A BIG FETHING SHIP - he should have died too. Ultramarines had a very big advantage in number, classes of ships and firepower - that even this kind of ship - couldn't possible slog through. But as i wrote above - i must deal with it, because he doesn't care.


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## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

Anakwanar said:


> My point exactly. I had asked Aaron - why this is the way it is, and he answered very simple - because :laugh: In the moment of writing of that particular novel he feels this way - so he wrote it that way.
> You don't like it. Ok - deal with it. He doesn't care.
> 
> I for example hate his description of attack by Ultramarine rag tag fleet on Conqueror, Fidelitas Lex and Trisagion.
> Because - in every scenario, even if Trisagion is A BIG FETHING SHIP - he should have died too. Ultramarines had a very big advantage in number, classes of ships and firepower - that even this kind of ship - couldn't possible slog through. But as i wrote above - i must deal with it, because he doesn't care.


I wouldn't quite say he doesn't care. He's one of the few authors to actually talk with fans and clarify things. For that I have a great deal of respect for him and he stands as one of my favorite Black Library authors.


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## Anakwanar (Sep 26, 2011)

> I wouldn't quite say he doesn't care. He's one of the few authors to actually talk with fans and clarify things. For that I have a great deal of respect for him and he stands as one of my favorite Black Library authors.


 Yes. he one of the few very talkative BL authors - what i mean - he will not change what he planned - due to the fan wishes. For example - i know several hundred people who plead to him not to kill Argel Tal. :biggrin:


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