# Space Marines fighting Taliban



## Engindeer (Dec 1, 2010)

I just saw a danish documentary called "Armadillo". It's about regular danish conscripts at the age of between 18 to 30, fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan. When pretty much every idea of real life war i have, is pretty much only WW2 (Old black n' white video), i must say that I wasn't expecting fighting taliban to be such a dangerous task!

The danish soldiers are vastly better armed and organized, but they are still really susceptible to be taken out by the terrorists' ak47's and heavy machineguns.

Then I thought, what if a regiment of Imperial Guard were deployed in Afghanistan today? Or a space marine chapter? Space Wolved fighting Taliban!

I don't know about you but I find this thought hilarious :rofl:


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Engindeer said:


> I don't know about you but I find this thought hilarious :rofl:


Well, I dont, but clearly they would be no match for the Astartes...


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

That's assuming the Taliban attempt to take on the Marines in open combat, which they usually don't do... I seem to recall that Marines HATE fighting guerilla wars, as the enemy isn't "honorable" enough to fight them in the open.

I imagine a 40k-grade IED would make a mess of a Marine in the open and probably wreck a Rhino...


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## Engindeer (Dec 1, 2010)

Deneris said:


> That's assuming the Taliban attempt to take on the Marines in open combat, which they usually don't do... I seem to recall that Marines HATE fighting guerilla wars, as the enemy isn't "honorable" enough to fight them in the open.
> 
> I imagine a 40k-grade IED would make a mess of a Marine in the open and probably wreck a Rhino...


I second that last notion!

The taliban warriors were really smug; When for example, there had been a minor engagement between them and the soldiers, when the dust cleared, the soldiers witnessed a burial parade, less than thirty metres from where they stood. A (presumably) dead guy (maybe taliban maybe not), where carried on a stretcher by four men (their allegiance was also ambigous).

The danish soldiers couldn't do anything, as the ensemble didn't carry visible weapons, and weren't an immediate threat. So they had to let them pass, knowing that their enemy might have made his escape, while being able to spy on them... Safe to say that the soldiers were pissed!

*Would a space marine just shoot the burial parade, as it is in the warzone area? * 

I think he would, given the astartes' typical mantra: Better be safe than sorry

*Would he do it if he was from the salamanders chapter? I'm not sure..*


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Some Astartes may dislike fighting guerilla warfare, but that's not always the case, Raven Guard being a main point in case. And if they had to fight them with such tactics they still would. The Taliban would be safely massacred, they almost literally don't have any weapons with which to hurt them, and the Astartes can be extremely merciless when they want to be. Hell the Guard could do it aswell, Astartes would just be a massive overkill.

And you didn't think it would be that dangerous? really? i find that a little naive of you. Watch 'Restrepo' aswell, it's a very good account of some US soldiers out on the raggedy edge of the Korangal Valley, its very good. Also get hold of Ross Kemp in Afgahnistan to see him accompanying us British soldiers about.


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## Engindeer (Dec 1, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> Some Astartes may dislike fighting guerilla warfare, but that's not always the case, Raven Guard being a main point in case. And if they had to fight them with such tactics they still would. The Taliban would be safely massacred, they almost literally don't have any weapons with which to hurt them, and the Astartes can be extremely merciless when they want to be. Hell the Guard could do it aswell, Astartes would just be a massive overkill.
> 
> And you didn't think it would be that dangerous? really? i find that a little naive of you. Watch 'Restrepo' aswell, it's a very good account of some US soldiers out on the raggedy edge of the Korangal Valley, its very good. Also get hold of Ross Kemp in Afgahnistan to see him accompanying us British soldiers about.


Pardon my naivete, It's just very rarely to see actual war footage as a danish civilian. Mostly it's pictures or videos of the aftermath, or figureheads talking about the situation, in the news.

Other than that my only choices are to watch documentaries as you've mentioned


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

There's no sense in comparing Astartes to soldiers who have to fight under rules of engagement meant to safeguard civilian lives even when it means letting the enemy get away.

Nothing about the Imperium strikes me as leaning to that direction. Taliban strongholds would be turned to glass if it turned out to be too much of a pain to take the region over. Chaplains would laugh at the assertion of sparing villages that served as havens to insurgents.

I'm not justifying that sort of course of action, by any means. But Space Marines are so ruthless as to make the Russian actions in the 80s in that same area downright humanitarian by contrast.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

There's no correlation between the IG and todays conflict. There is currently a "good news brigade" in which armchair generals in the media criticise soldiers for what is affirmative action. Yes there are mistakes, bad judgements etc such as Reuters, which I'm not getting into, but remember those stories about "afghan farmers" shot dead? or a house flattened by an airstrike? It's bullshit. AQT have Al Jazeera twisted around its finger, and because of (particularly) british sentiment to "minorities", there has to be an inquest into discovering what's a load of bollocks.

Other instances, in Bagram, 2009, I was part of a convoy heading north, scouting on foot, when we were engaged by around 150 fighters, and 7 of our guys were killed, one of the guys in my fireteam 10 yards in front of me took a round in the neck, a Norwegian SBS trooper, an American 10th Mountain, and 4 Northern Alliance guys lost their lives. We returned fire, killed probably 30-40, and began to bracket them with mortar fire from the Vikings. At which point, we see them surrendering. Now, we had an Italian news crew with us - and we'd have clearly have looked to have "missed" those signs of surrender, yet we had to take over 100 guys as prisoners, and care for them, then find the dead, and bring them back, and allow them to repatriate. 3 months later, one of the Norwegian SBS teams brought in 3 Taliban from a snatch and grab - some of the CIA guys I spoke to after said that their fingerprints and DNA matched that of those captured during the convoy ambush.

In another instance, there was a battle in a NA fort, known as Qala i Janghi, in which over 600 Taliban tried to stage a break out after a fake surrender - Brit SBS, American CIA, Delta, and 10th Mountain troops fought alongside outnumbered Northern Alliance to keep the Fort from falling. How was it reported? "British Soldiers complicit in murdering over 600 Afghan Prisoners".

With the IG, they wouldn't care about home opinion, or human rights. They wouldn't hesitate in killing civilians to get the job done. They wouldn't care about torture for information. They wouldn't care about blueonblue situations. Neither would they care about stabilising a region, as they would just resettle after destroying everything in their way.

Space Marines would have even less of an issue doing that - I'm willing to bet that it would take around nothing less than a direct hit from an MBT's weapon to counter their Power Armour, while they have the equivalent of a miniature GMG to counter fire.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Pretty much as Vaz has said, if it was 40K IG or SM fighting the conflict it would be a very short slaughter house, war over.
IG and SM don't have the concerns of things like the ROI, they would just butcher everything in sight until nothing was left then move on to the next area. 
Mountain strongholds would be taken out with devastating orbital strikes and anything left would be mopped up after.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Vaz summed it up perfectly, they just aren't restricted like we are. Another bullshit case in point of a lower scale but just as fucking stupid, was when a guy in our patrol which was clearly marked to stay the fuck away from, fired a mini-flare (which you could probably shoot a child with and nothing major would happen) at some prick in a car hurtling towards the convoy at an almighty fucking speed. Said guy then went and fucking compained and it had to be looked into to see if the mini-flare was over escalating. Fuck off


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## Warsmith40 (Feb 8, 2010)

I had a recent discussion with my uncle covering modern firearm standards compared to those of 40k as discussed in the various books.

The stardard Godwin pattern bolter fires a round equivalent to that of most WWII era tank's main guns. Add the explosive, self-propelling aspect, rapid fire, and pinpoint accuracy bred into Astartes, a single tactial squad could easily butcher a contingent of modern tanks. And they wouldn't even need any grenades! As for return fire, Astartes have taken direct blasts from high-energy weapons or tank shells and survived to fight on to victory. I hardly think modern arms could do more than piss them off.

As for the IG, name me one piece of modern armor designed to stop a laser. Plus the main gun on the Leman Russ, according to the scale, is essentially a massive seige cannon, the shell it fires easily three or more times the size of modern ammunition, and I believe it explodes as well. The LR is also capable of withstanding melta-blasts to a certain degree. I have a feeling an RPG-7 would simply char the paint. And if they sent in a Baneblade? I don't even want to go there.

As for modern combat, I'm pretty clueless except for the fact that the media always blows things out of proportions. I'd far rather read an article or journal entry of a single soldier than believe the bull crap spewed by a hundred news sources.


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## RIVALBLACKWELL (Dec 13, 2010)

I would love to see the World Eaters down there!
How fun would that be huh!?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Vastly depends on your definition of fun..........particularly once they've finished with the Taliban and turn to see us there all wide eyed.


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## Brother Arnold (Aug 29, 2010)

The Taliban would get absolutely fucked in the first engagement.
So, here's how the Astartes would go about it.
Send in the Raven Guard. They're eperts at guerilla warfare. Get some of their Scouts to find the Taliban HQ. If there is none, then meh. Send in a Tactical Squad to put the Taliban in their place. If you do find one, though, then put teleport homers in the base. After that, one word: Terminators.
There are probably top-secret experiments in America to find the secret of making a MEQ soldier as we speak. I suspect Area 51. Or is that Area 41?


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## MuSigma (Jul 8, 2010)

Very interesting post, I was humourously wondering about the fictional, or possibly not, rumour of intelligence services flagging on the internet about certain words appearing, they would have a field day on this forum, must be one of the few websites that producing loads of flagged words lol that isnt (hopefully) a terrorist cell front.

BTW arent the Taliban sooo like a chaos cult, blood thirsty heretic fanatics hell bent on death for the blood god and spreading chaos among the civilian population.

Isnt Afghanistan soooo not worth an atom bomb. Sadly I wish it were.

Isnt it so sad that our culture has become so compromised by political correctness that we cannot function in war, the army is ok, the civilian government pathetic. They seem only interested in money and banks so like a tithe collecting planetary govenors who lack the zeal and determination to win a war against a pitiless bunch of religious zealots. They even see fit to cut the defence budget while at war - not even funny as a sick joke.


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

Vaz said:


> There's no correlation between the IG and todays conflict. There is currently a "good news brigade" in which armchair generals in the media criticise soldiers for what is affirmative action. Yes there are mistakes, bad judgements etc such as Reuters, which I'm not getting into, but remember those stories about "afghan farmers" shot dead? or a house flattened by an airstrike? It's bullshit. AQT have Al Jazeera twisted around its finger, and because of (particularly) british sentiment to "minorities", there has to be an inquest into discovering what's a load of bollocks.
> 
> Other instances, in Bagram, 2009, I was part of a convoy heading north, scouting on foot, when we were engaged by around 150 fighters, and 7 of our guys were killed, one of the guys in my fireteam 10 yards in front of me took a round in the neck, a Norwegian SBS trooper, an American 10th Mountain, and 4 Northern Alliance guys lost their lives. We returned fire, killed probably 30-40, and began to bracket them with mortar fire from the Vikings. At which point, we see them surrendering. Now, we had an Italian news crew with us - and we'd have clearly have looked to have "missed" those signs of surrender, yet we had to take over 100 guys as prisoners, and care for them, then find the dead, and bring them back, and allow them to repatriate. 3 months later, one of the Norwegian SBS teams brought in 3 Taliban from a snatch and grab - some of the CIA guys I spoke to after said that their fingerprints and DNA matched that of those captured during the convoy ambush.
> 
> ...


Served in afghanistan too and smack on the money my friend. Pity we aint in the grim future of warhammer 40k lol nah RIP all coalition forces esp the Aussies.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The Guard and Astartes wouldn't just not care about villagers if they were hiding insurgents, they'd actively target them- even the merest whisper of a chance that a settlement is even tenuously linked to the enemy (an insurgent once took a dump in a field near by for instance) would result in a massacre.

It wouldn't be an object lesson to cow other areas, they'd do it to *every *village. Why fight the insurgents on their home ground when you can eliminate any chance they have of being resupplied? Wipe out every single male over the age of 10 and no more fighters...

And god help any country which had fighters travelling from them to aid the Taliban- let me put it this way, the Iron Hands killed 1 in 3 citizens in a system that had rebelled for a short period of time (it was actually only the aristocracy that seceded) and one of those worlds was a major Hive World, not even the Salamanders would have any qualms in culling such a relatively small population.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

What a silly topic.

The Astartes would wipe out any real life army or specialized combat unit from the SAS, Navy Seals to the Spetznaz obviously.

For those saying the IG wouldn't care about civilian collateral damage, do you not think their stance is due to the fact that in the WH40k universe, there are trillions of civilians and thus the loss of human life to them would naturally not be of a concern to them especially in their gritty reality. 

I'd wager the IG would be a lot more concerned with human life if they simply resided on one planet with a population similar to that of ours.

And to the OP and a few others, it is interesting to note how you simply view the Taliban as being the bad guy and completely disregard their reasons for fighting or how they even came into existence.

In b4 Taliban sympathizer, misogynist, Mozlum, etc.




MuSigma said:


> Very interesting post, I was humourously wondering about the fictional, or possibly not, rumour of intelligence services flagging on the internet about certain words appearing, they would have a field day on this forum, must be one of the few websites that producing loads of flagged words lol that isnt (hopefully) a terrorist cell front.
> 
> BTW arent the Taliban sooo like a chaos cult, blood thirsty heretic fanatics hell bent on death for the blood god and spreading chaos among the civilian population.
> 
> ...


I wasn't aware Fox News aired in the UK.

You do realize the whole mythology of Chaos and the pantheon stems from European/pagan history no? 

Good grief kid lay off the Black Library novels for a while and hit your local library.

I think your comment about Afghanistan deserving an Atom bomb speaks volumes about your character and if you actually paid attention to real news, you'd know that recently it was discovered that Afghanistan sits on a trillion dollar market of precious metals used in the electronics industry.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

The Taliban ARE the bad guys. I challenge you to give me a good justification as to why they are not, seriously, please


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> The Taliban ARE the bad guys. I challenge you to give me a good justification as to why they are not, seriously, please


I do not condone their actions but to sit in your air conditioned room thousands of miles away and to claim that they are evil incarnate and fight simply because they want to chop off the heads of 'infidels' and to take over the world is foolish.

If the UK were invaded by a superior army, you'd be up in arms and trying to evict the invaders would you not?

In WH40k terms, Afghanistan is a world that has 'been turned away' from the light of the Emperor (classic case of the supremacy of white man) and the technologically superior Imperial Guard/Astartes have invaded said world in order to 'liberate' its people only to demand Imperial tithes later on (ie oil/natural resources) and turning the world into a pollutant-making factory world for the empire.


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## MuSigma (Jul 8, 2010)

Im sorry if offended anyone mentioning the use of Atom Bombs.

I dont hate the people of Afghanistan.

I have no wish for white supremacy, or war.

My sincerest wish would be to spare the civilised world another pointless conflict against an oppressed poverty stricken people whom I would prefer to help, but who sadly have been poisoned against us.

I dont care if america wants oil or minerals - only a madman would see a pointless war being an easier option to obtain them than simply doing business for it, the cost in war materials and human lives simply doesnt make sense.

I am agrieved that another third world people have been indoctrinated so much against the west that the are willing to kill innocent people to make their beliefs heard.

Murder of any kind will not and should not further their cause even if thier cause is fully justified. The feelings i have for them are ones of frustration in having to have any kind of war at all. I would quite happily have the lot of the murdering bastards shot and return to the peaceful state the world needs. I can tolerate their right to defend their country and fight honourably against our soldiers but they do not fight that way, the cowardly killing of innocent civilians has been a facet of the modern world for too long and if we make a stand and defeat it the world will be better off.

Its our world just as much as it is theirs and frankly that kind of murder makes me sick.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

> And to the OP and a few others, it is interesting to note how you simply view the Taliban as being the bad guy and completely disregard their reasons for fighting or how they even came into existence.


Trust me, I know of how they've come into existence. I know of the original action which saw their "official" start date. And they've been perverted into something that their "honourable" and purely domestic ideals would not have dictated, nor stood for.

They're completely corrupt, brainwashing domestically unengaged young men and women into the cause. These are your T3. Couldn't give a toss about them, they're drugged to the eyeballs, and if they fire at me, I fire back, job done. T2? These are your foreign muslim mercs - your scumbags like Jonathan Lindh, Chechen Rebels who came just for the fight. These, I'd gladly scalp. It's not their place to be there. But you fire on me, you ain't going home. Your T1? These are your higher ups. True "muslims" who know the Qoran off by heart to drum up fervour and hatred, taking comments made in the holy book out of contrast, and chatting shit like we're here like the Crusaders over 800 years ago (incidentally, the Franco-Germanic/Norman/Saxonic crusaders didn't get that far north or east as Afghanistan - at best it was Aleppo, and mainly Armenian-Cilicia), or that we're there like we were in the 1800's (incidentally, not actually being in combat - we were merely passing through what was to become Pakistan to secure a new trade route for the empire).

And then these T1's - they do fuck all about muslim ceremony except when it comes to down to getting support for a cause. Usually a wave of suicide bombs.

They profess to hate western culture and technology (as it's the route of our "decadence") - yet they drink, smoke, take enough smack to kill a horse, eat pork and ham, use captured American weaponry, cellphones, ammunitions and explosives.

And the greatest lie? They claim to be fighting for the people, protecting them from the cruel and corrupt government (that invited Russia into the country to protect them rebel tribesmen which were themselves terrorising the city and outlying villages), yet with operations like Moshtarraq, why were we engaged?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> I do not condone their actions but to sit in your air conditioned room thousands of miles away and to claim that they are evil incarnate and fight simply because they want to chop off the heads of 'infidels' and to take over the world is foolish.


Actually i happen to be in the British Armed Force, so trust me i know exactly what i'm talking about as does Vaz, we aren't keyboard warriors or people hiding in their nice safe countries talking from an outside perspective. He's already summed it up pretty well. But i think you have utterly failed to research the Taliban properly with the statements you are coming out with. The Afghan people hate the Taliban, they are oppresive, tyranical, cruel and unforgiving. They will kill a man for not having a beard, they will kill women for not covering themselves up in public or if they try to have a job and lead what we would consider a normal life. Again, read what Vaz wrote and then actually go and properly research the Taliban before you try and claim they aren't the bad guys.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> The Afghan people hate the Taliban


They hate anyone pointing guns at them



Angel of Blood said:


> they are oppresive, tyranical, cruel and unforgiving. They will kill a man for not having a beard, they will kill women for not covering themselves up in public or if they try to have a job and lead what we would consider a normal life.


Nice summary of what they do, such naive generalizations coming from someone whose in the armed forces. I can make up some generalizations/stereotypes myself, do you call them ********, haji's or paki's as you spray your gun blindly?



Angel of Blood said:


> Again, read what Vaz wrote and then actually go and properly research the Taliban before you try and claim they aren't the bad guys


Did you read the Kite Runner while filing reports for your superiors?

Don't twist my words _soldier boy_, I didn't say I condone their actions but I will not make the foolish mistake of saying they don't fight for freedom of their land and to evict a government they consider to being the puppet of the US of A. 

The manner in which they do so or how they oppressed their people prior to the invasion I find distasteful but they are misguided,simple minded fools using religion as a weapon as has been the case throughout humanity's history.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Yes naive, because i clearly have no information and am inexperienced as to their ways. And yes we spray our rifles and guns blindly all the time, we are gung-ho murderers who never think about what we shoot at. And oooooh! 'Soldier boy' wow you really are breaking out the big guns now aren't you. The Taliban did all these things even when the colation and ISAF weren't in Afghanistan. Oh and btw, all these things i have said have come straight from Afghans themselves, i'm not just some 'soldier boy' squaddies shooting my mouth off, i work with Afghans every day, talk with them about their opinions on the Taliban and the coaliton and they all want the Taliban gone more than they want us gone.


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## Harriticus (Nov 10, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> I do not condone their actions but to sit in your air conditioned room thousands of miles away and to claim that they are evil incarnate and fight simply because they want to chop off the heads of 'infidels' and to take over the world is foolish.
> 
> If the UK were invaded by a superior army, you'd be up in arms and trying to evict the invaders would you not?.


Taliban formed in 1994 and was a scheme of Pakistani/Saudi intelligence. Neither the Soviets or the Americans were in Afghanistan at the time, and nobody was occupying it. The Soviets had left some 6 years previous and the U.S. wouldn't be there for about 7 years.

And to the general thread I disagree that the Afghan people overwhelmingly hate the Taliban, you find that the Afghans always want some degree of theocracy in their government, Karzai's regime is often bashed as being too secular and the Soviet puppet regime was universally despised not only for its brutality but also for things such as state secularism, freedom of religion, allowing women to be educated, and so on. The Taliban represent a face of Afghan society, the Northern Alliance largely thrived on Afghans warlord nature and Iranian-Taliban tensions.

But this is becoming awfully topic regarding 40k, Vaz summed it all up pretty well k:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Malus Darkblade said:


> They hate anyone pointing guns at them


No. I don't point guns at civi's. I don't stand with a crack off gimpy at a checkpoint gunning down farmers as they go to work. I don't load them up with drugs, intimidate their families, fit tamper proof/tamper activated explosive vests made up of mining explosives and jury rigged claymores. I don't go leaving nail bombs or car bombs in a market to kill women and children (and it is ALWAYS women and children, Afghan men do fuck all aside from their standard work - the women and children have to cope with the family life and the humdrum of day to day).



> Nice summary of what they do, such naive generalizations coming from someone whose in the armed forces. I can make up some generalizations/stereotypes myself, do you call them ********, haji's or paki's as you spray your gun blindly?


No, I call them ********, afghan fucks, cunts, knobbers, arsewipes, ****'s, sunni shirtlifters, pashtun pricklickers, talibuttfucks, haji's, as I aim and take deliberate shots not exceeding 400 yards.



> Did you read the Kite Runner while filing reports for your superiors?


Have you happen to read Bloody Heroes? Apache Dawn? A story is a story, regardless of how true it is. Someone can champion a cause by writing in the flavour that's beneficial and biased against them.

Have you happen to experienced incoming fire from them? Have you even had your head so tight between your legs you can lick your own arsehole when being bracketed by mortars? I have. What was I doing? Outrider for a massive operation which involved the land transport of a huge set of electro-hydrodynamic turbines to install in the dam, to make sure that the actual CIMIC guys in that convoy further down the valley didn't get bit by what we were experiencing. Like I said earlier, a mate of mine took a round through the neck - he died of shock before we could even clear the area for a Casevac to pick him up. Same for an American and Norwegian SF Operators. Yeah, we're gunslingers, if you want to throw that term around, an attack dog, if you like. I don't have the skills aside from being a combat medic to make that much of a difference. But those guys (in the turbine convoy) in the Loggy Corps, and Engineering Regiments, they can. However, like a good attack dog, we know when to attack. And if we're not being targetted, that's usually good enough for us to get on with it.

You know why we're being targetted? Because slowly but surely, their foreign weapons and money suppliers are being targetted. Balkan fighters, like the Chechens are being hunted down for crimes commited in Bosnia. The Mosques in the UK are apparently being investigated over links to AQT Handlers and processors. Their only income, the weed and the poppy is slowly but surely being weaned off the farmers. Grants are set up to provide them with the money to grow wheat and rice for the chronic malnutrition that affects the country (again, being a way in which the Taliban get support, as they're always well supplied).

If we'd like to set up an OP in families house, then we ask to share, and offer them money. If they refuse, then we'll find a way - either find them alternate shelter, increase the money, or find somewhere else - often it's a combination of the first two. £10,000 may not sound like much, but that's nearly 5 years wages for an Afghan farmer, and for some mud bricked house to act as a RV for 3-4 days as we patrol, that's a huge amount of money.

As said, I don't blat away with a fuck off Machine Gun at a crowd because their muslim, let alone a seperate faction of the faith. I give them exercise books, pens, pencils, colouring pads, boiled sweets (but not the yellow ones, I really like the yellow ones), chocolate, I tell jokes, I learn some more of the Pashtun language in exchange for swear words, I drink tea in a shura with village elders. Christ I even gave away my Liverpool Football Shirt to one of the kids around Bagram.

Would I do that if I was Taliban? No. I'd be raking them down or reciting some out of context passage from the Qoran before priming the det cord and getting my 72 virgins.





> Don't twist my words _soldier boy_, I didn't say I condone their actions but I will not make the foolish mistake of saying they don't fight for freedom of their land and to evict a government they consider to being the puppet of the US of A.


But they're not. Christ, Karzai's a retarded loose cannon. A patrol I was with in Nad'e'ali when we hit contact. The fighting was too close, so called into Bastion to provide Close Air Support. Out arrived a couple of Apache Gunships and a B1 Bomber was diverted on return to put in a show of force (basically just fire off flare at low level). The SoF worked for sometime, but we were still pinned with fire coming from a white building (typically a hospital in Afghan terms, no other building can afford to continually repaint), so we were unsure, but when the unarmoured Land Rover started recieving holes in it from a .50 Cal Machine Gun, we had to get something done, so asked for about 60-100 rounds of 30mm Cannon fire from the Apache's and a Hellfire to finish off the job, as I was not going to be going into that building. Get's blown up, we finish the day off, back for tea and biscuits. I get the buzz that Karzai's after the pilots heads for destroying a hospital and killing 100's of women and children - until we go back out and have another Shura with the Elders - turns out that the "Hospital" had been built in 2001 by some Japanese Doctors and contractors, but had evacuated shortly after 9/11, and not been inhabited except as a weapons cache by the Taliban.

So - we've got innocent pilots who put their lives on the line, with enough firepower to destroy a football stadium, but have to ensure that everything they do is inch perfect, from 200ft in the air, travelling 140mph, the guys on the ground risking everything so that the corrupt, ineffective, politically insensitive, and, worst of all, naive, "Mayor of Kabul" can stay that way, only for him to return and accuse us of not taking utmost care and attention to kill only those that damn well deserve it.



> The manner in which they do so or how they oppressed their people prior to the invasion I find distasteful but they are misguided,simple minded fools using religion as a weapon as has been the case throughout humanity's history.


Glad we agree. So don't Devil's Advocate as it's apologists such as yourself which actually attempt to make out volunteer security as the actual root of the problems in Afghanistan. A mate of mine put it brilliantly. "People blame the Yanks and the Brits etc for starting this war, for creating all these issues in the country. The truth is, we've merely highlighted this fact - the Taliban are a cancer - and like cancer, it can be malignant, but stay completely hidden until it's spotted. At that point, you can either let it be - or it'll kill you regardless. Alternatively, you can actually go for Chemo, or Radiotherapy - and that cancer may well be defeated. On the other hand, it may be put into remission, but it may come back. Lastly, it may not be defeated whatsoever, and at that point, it's time to stop treatment, and instead give pain relief."

Alternatively - if you get caught stealing from a shop by the shop security, it's not the securities fault, it's yours for stealing.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

A 22 year old who thinks he knows it all and fights against men who have been fighting a superior army decades before he was born.

Everything you just wrote _surprisingly _I've read in newspapers and articles online so please get off your high horse and stop acting like you're Superman and a beam of sunshine around the village kids. 

You sound like a script from some typical Hollywood flick I've watched countless times only you're 22.

You want to be a hero like most kids your age? You do volunteer work where you won't ever be recognized for your deeds and will be in constant danger due to being in a warzone, you don't go shooting guns at elderly men you should be respectful around or be with the ones shooting guns like mad dogs because they have nothing to look forward to back home.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Malus Darkblade said:


> A 22 year old who thinks he knows it all and fights against men who have been fighting a superior army decades before he was born.


A 22 year old who's gone through the toughest training course for regular forces before he had even got his GCSE results, and came out top of the class recieving the Kings badge. I have 3 tours in Afghanistan under my belt, passed out of Recce Operator training before I was even allowed to leave for a combat zone, and have qualifications in combat medicine, Comms, Parachute training (17 jumps) and Scuba. I've spent 18months in afghanistan, 2 of those months on deliberate ops rooting out strongholds in Hunter Killer missions in conjunction with numerous ISAF resources, the other 16 in the relative "humdrum" of your standard Brigade Recce Force work scouting for mines, ambushes, and dickers for the rest of the patrol.



> Everything you just wrote _surprisingly _I've read in newspapers and articles online so please get off your high horse and stop acting like you're Superman and a beam of sunshine around the village kids.


So, because I publish what I'm allowed by the contract I signed, it's all read off the computer/books? Yeah, because I'm going to post all the potentially secret, classified, and top secret information I have access to to prove some Talibuttfuck apologist that I'm the real deal?



> You sound like a script from some typical Hollywood flick I've watched countless times only you're 22.


Name the one in which the hero gets 15 inches of tungsten put into his body by a misaligned rocket on a Helo. Name the one that actually takes aim and fires on selective fire, and will run like fuck when he sees he's outnumber by more than 1:1. Name the one who actually misses some of his shots. Name the one that gets shit scared, and has to ring home just to get a sense of what he's actually there for. You can't. Unless you count, say Jarhead - which, strangely enough is based on the true story of Swofford during the First Gulf War. There's no witty one liners, no shades, no firing at the hip full auto LSW's wearing a wifebeater, bandana and a bandolier. There's swearing, the smell of piss and rotten egg cordite, and the zip of the bee's that sound like they were a gnats arse from twatting you in the face.



> You want to be a hero like most kids your age? You do volunteer work where you won't ever be recognized for your deeds and will be in constant danger due to being in a warzone, you don't go shooting guns at elderly men you should be respectful around or be with the ones shooting guns like mad dogs because they have nothing to look forward to back home.


And you were going so well and all. I thought you actually had a point to prove instead of just being a narcissistic troll.


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

Vaz said:


> A 22 year old who's gone through the toughest training course for regular forces before he had even got his GCSE results, and came out top of the class recieving the Kings badge. I have 3 tours in Afghanistan under my belt, passed out of Recce Operator training before I was even allowed to leave for a combat zone, and have qualifications in combat medicine, Comms, Parachute training (17 jumps) and Scuba. I've spent 18months in afghanistan, 2 of those months on deliberate ops rooting out strongholds in Hunter Killer missions in conjunction with numerous ISAF resources, the other 16 in the relative "humdrum" of your standard Brigade Recce Force work scouting for mines, ambushes, and dickers for the rest of the patrol.
> 
> 
> So, because I publish what I'm allowed by the contract I signed, it's all read off the computer/books? Yeah, because I'm going to post all the potentially secret, classified, and top secret information I have access to to prove some Talibuttfuck apologist that I'm the real deal?
> ...


I would stop wasting your time with this guy, look where he is from. 

I find his opinion surprisingly hypocritical considering his country hosts all our forces when we conduct post deployment training prior to crossing the boarder. Oh yeah I forgot that fat juicy dollar and having saved them from a brutal iraqi dictatorship in the first gulf war.

They are one of the richest Arab nations in the world and yet do you ever see personnel from these countries helping there fellow Arabs or Muslims in the grips of a dictatorship or oppression?

People like this will talk shit forever. Like so many service men have mentioned on this thread already (surprised how many there are) an armchair general sitting in his delux leather chair whilst his fellow Muslims/Arabs suffer under oppression without breaking a sweat, he has air-conditioning in his brand new merc.

Malus Darkblade you are entitiled to your opinion but a word of advice how bout you go there and experience it for yourself first. 

P.S don’t take your radio or tv the TB don’t believe in it.

NCO 
Royal Australian Regiment (Infantry)
Mechanised Instructor
East Timor 02 , Iraq 04, Afghanistan 08/09
Ten years service Australian Army and counting.

Duty First


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Malus Darkblade said:


> A 22 year old who thinks he knows it all and fights against men who have been fighting a superior army decades before he was born.


You'd be surprised what you can experience before seeing your 23rd year. It sounds like you're just trying to piss these people off at this point. You speak with the air of assumed authority that you're accusing Vaz and Angel of Blood of possessing, only without the life experience to back it up.

You're entitled to have your own opinion, informed or otherwise, but try to be a little more courteous when expressing it. It's pretty fucked up that you reserve your sympathies for people who train children to kick-start AKs and fire them at innocent people instead of the men and women who sacrifice their freedoms to protect yours.




Malus Darkblade said:


> Don't twist my words _soldier boy_, I didn't say I condone their actions but I will not make the foolish mistake of saying they don't fight for freedom of their land and to evict a government they consider to being the puppet of the US of A.


That's not at all what they are doing. They're trying to expel the presence of the Allied forces to reinstate themselves as the ruling party, and they're doing it viciously. Many of my friends have recently come back from a tour in Afghanistan and told me how, in US-controlled areas, women can walk around without covering their faces (and are very happy about it) and children can play in the streets without having to worry about having their legs blown off by a nailbomb.




Malus Darkblade said:


> I do not condone their actions but to sit in your air conditioned room thousands of miles away and to claim that they are evil incarnate and fight simply because they want to chop off the heads of 'infidels' and to take over the world is foolish.


The difference between the good guys and the bad guys is whether they use human shields or make themselves human shields. The Taliban is very firmly on one side of that scale.

I'm not saying you're wrong, MD, but I am saying you're ignorant as all hell. Until you've been fired at by these "freedom fighters" or had a daisy-chain of 81mm rounds send your squadmate to the afterlife, you really have no reason to talk as hard as you are right now.



OT: We all know how the Imperium deals with its enemies, so in all likelyhood they'd just bug out and glass the planet. It's the only way to be sure.


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## Bayonet (Aug 13, 2010)

Malus Darkblade, dry your eyes princess. 

Vaz, Angel - Stop wasting your time with this mouth breather. He'll never appreciate the finer points of eating an Egg Banjo brought forward by the CQ's Party whilst you stand triumphantly over the still warm corpses of those that tried to stop us getting our Oil.


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## the Autarch (Aug 23, 2009)

wow this got waay off topic


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## Lima6 (Sep 30, 2008)

Agreed, but it is nice to see so many royal on the boards!!!

Still, this dialogue is pretty enlightening, although we shouldn't dismiss somebodies opinion just cause they haven't been under fire. As those of you who serve know, the military is not the most open minded of organisations and listening to and appreciating a polar opposite opinion can only broaden our depth of understanding of any situation, despite how much you initially disagree with it. 

Possibly the most interesting thread yet incredibly off topic though, beats another discussion about the two missing primarchs.....


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

Doelago said:


> Well, I dont, but clearly they would be no match for the Astartes...


having had a cousin and a close friend out there i can't see the funny side of it, however in the spirit of the post the IG would have to be very adept at mountain warfare as afghanistan is a wild, untamed and dangerous place. not only for the fact its run by warlords but more importantly for the fact that afghanistan has never been conquered, and those that have held it have only held it breifly you are talking about a nation of mountan warriors who know every inch of thier terrain and this is what the IG would have to contend with. 
not sure about the astartes i mean in the real world the Afghanis defeated the Russians and have the Collation forces at a sort of sordid no mans land so i reckon given that history they would give even the astartes a run for thier money, not by much but a good hefty bank sized chunk


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

Vaz said:


> These are your higher ups. True "muslims" who know the Qoran off by heart to drum up fervour and hatred, taking comments made in the holy book out of contrast, and chatting shit like we're here like the Crusaders over 800 years ago (incidentally, the Franco-Germanic/Norman/Saxonic crusaders didn't get that far north or east as Afghanistan - at best it was Aleppo, and mainly Armenian-Cilicia), or that we're there like we were in the 1800's (incidentally, not actually being in combat - we were merely passing through what was to become Pakistan to secure a new trade route for the empire).
> 
> 
> > just to add i totally agree with this vaz, the Qoran is a book of peace not war and it seems to have been forgotten in this day and age like a lot of things, and in comparrison to the WH40K there are some elements that use the words of the emperor to get what they want despite the fact he said i am not a god, just a rather exceptional man.
> > corrupt lords that claim they are doing the will of the emperor just to line thier own pockets so in reality....not much difference at all.


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## Lima6 (Sep 30, 2008)

But back to the original thread, any half arsed guard unit could quell the actions of the Taliban by simply following their doctrine ie wiping out most if not all the population. If they were hamstrung by the roe imposed on us today and the invasive, negative and all seeing eye of the free media they any 40k force, astartes included would struggle. The only option I could see working under such conditions would be to use a bunch of alpha level psykers to change the mindset of the tier 1s and let them disband if their own 'free will'.


Or maybe a Titan legion.....


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## Smokes (Nov 27, 2009)

If the Astartes were to drop right in the middle of Afghanistan I would give them a month before the entire conflict would be over. And that is being very pessimistic. They would eradicate anything and everything in their path while ignoring any kind of rules of engagement. They wouldn't get tired and as long as the Taliban were out there they would be hunting them. The Imperial Guard would just throw men at them until their corpses pile up so much that the enemy can no longer move and the arty will clear that obstacle. Or just have an Inquisitor bomb the living feth out of Central Asia or the entire continent for that matter until nothing but dust is left.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

nate187 said:


> I would stop wasting your time with this guy, look where he is from.
> 
> I find his opinion surprisingly hypocritical considering his country hosts all our forces when we conduct post deployment training prior to crossing the boarder. Oh yeah I forgot that fat juicy dollar and having saved them from a brutal iraqi dictatorship in the first gulf war.
> 
> ...


First off, I'm actually an American who lives here and second Australia didn't do much, it was the Brits and Americans who truly liberated Kuwait. And you do realize Kuwait's neighbors did aid in liberating it right? 

Second, I find your racism and your kindergarten stereotypes of Arabs sickening and silly and I'm not surprised many of your kind are avid fans of the WH40k universe.

It's not surprising to note how the majority of those attacking me or my opinion are supposedly in the army and all extremely young. It's quite ironic to note how they don't realize themselves how brainwashed they actually are, spewing dogma spoon-fed into them from whatever army baited them in with hollywood'ized perceptions of glory and honor and how they'd be almost worshiped upon returning home with medals and ribbons emphasizing the fact that you've shed human blood. 

Let's not forget how the ladies will react eh? 

Just imagine how many will race to hit you up on facebook once you take pictures of said medals or of yourself holding an automatic machine gun on top of a pristine humvee wearing an awesome and spotless uniform .

I'm quite certain none of you have actually met an Arab/Muslim other than the ones your armies have subjugated with the threat of guns or with the promises of freedom or a better life, or the psychopaths who emigrate to your countries and demand the governments to adopt Sharia law.

Most of you have the mindset of xenophobic Astartes only without justification but if all I had was a square box telling me about the latest suicide bomber hailing from some Muslim country or if my only interaction with an Arab or Muslim was through the scope of an M4A1, I'd most definitely think the same way I suppose but then again like my favored Legion, I think outside the box.


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## Lord Solar Macharius (Oct 5, 2010)

I think this thread has run its course. I think the best course of action right now is for an Exterminatus (read: thread locking) to be preformed on this thread ASAP. I was going to make a joke about the Raven Guard fighting the Taliban and nobody knows what either of them are up to, but I lost the will to do so once I saw this pointless, off topic flaming.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Indeed, i dearly want to retort to Malus Darkblades most absurd post yet, the penny has well and truely dropped now, exposing Malus as an anti-military blinkered tool. But i agree, this should get locked now.

And just for the record, i'm currently on a long course learning how to speak Pashtu, i speak with normal arabs everyday and learn about their ways and culture. Not that it will get through your own massively biased view


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> Indeed, i dearly want to retort to Malus Darkblades most absurd post yet, the penny has well and truely dropped now, exposing Malus as an anti-military blinkered tool. But i agree, this should get locked now.
> 
> And just for the record, i'm currently on a long course learning how to speak Pashtu, i speak with normal arabs everyday and learn about their ways and culture. Not that it will get through your own massively biased view


Trust me I held back, maybe when you lose a limb or when your government abandons you will you realize the folly of your warmongering ways.

I'm just glad I could write up a reply before someone randomly banned me.

Also FYI, Aghanistans aren't Arabs but I could see how you could make the mistake, Indians, Arabs, and Iranians look so gosh darned alike. But good luck with that Pashtun course and befriending some Arabs. 

And Arabs you meet on the field fall under the category I mentioned in my previous post. Meet an actual Arab who doesn't live under the fear of being killed by an unmanned drone, unintentionally becoming collateral damage or is brainwashed like you and your fellows.

Anyways I'm pulling out of this cesspit, peace.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Lol your just amusing now, and ever so slightly pathetic, having to sink to full blown personal attacks and barking out your own predjudices. Ah fuck it, again i'm not gonna keep going, you have fun throwing your little tantrum, now put your toys back in your pram and get yourself a lollypop or something.

Oh and for the record, plenty of the people i talk to are arabs, i could get one to write you a pretty email confimring this if you would like.


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## Gluttoniser (Aug 14, 2010)

This raises the question if AK-rounds or even modern day rocket launchers could penetrate Power Armour.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I very much doubt it, apart from on the chance they happen to hit a joint or some other vulnerable point. And I'm sure power armour can withstand an RPG aswell, would throw them back i imagine and rip out a lovely chunk of the armour, but i reckon the Astartes would survive.


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## Harriticus (Nov 10, 2010)

Gluttoniser said:


> This raises the question if AK-rounds or even modern day rocket launchers could penetrate Power Armour.


In the tabletop game, can't autogun rounds hurt Space Marines? 40k Autoguns aren't really any different from modern assault rifles.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Indeed, but tabletop rules and fluff are two very different things.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Fuck the big intelligent well thought out response to the right-wing rhetoric. However, I'll leave you with this thought - 










Night night cockroach =).


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Fuck the big intelligent well thought out response to the right-wing rhetoric. However, I'll leave you with this thought -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hahahaha nuff said


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

What about an anti materiel rifle? I've only seen these used in movies and games.


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## Engindeer (Dec 1, 2010)

gah, I was afraid this had to be locked! No matter how interesting, I don't care for your views on the taliban or their opponents - that debate can be found in abundance elsewhere on the internet.

This is for 40k-related fluff discussion only.

I was merely pondering how a space marine chapter would handle the situation in afghanistan, who, of course, would be supportive of our cause in taking down the afghan warriors.

Anywho I'm glad it's back on track and I agree, that Vaz had a meaningful and well argumented view in his post - Baron also made a lot of sense, in that most chapters would probably kill any man beyond the age of ten, to ensure bitter but complete success in their task!

Thank you for all on-topic replies!


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

locustgate said:


> What about an anti materiel rifle? I've only seen these used in movies and games.


Anti-Mat rifle fire .50 Cal rifle - bullet - e.g a 12.7mm round, usually a hollowpoint, which can reduce it's penetration, but increase tumbling in the body causing massive damage, such as ripping a limb off.

However, a Heavy Bolter fires an Explosive tipped 1Cal round - or 25mm (plus change), set to detonate basically just after it's passed into the body, but before it exits - so it has more momentum, kinetic energy and the like, and in game, marine armour can survive that, and there are many recorded occasions as such - hence the idea that at least MBT direct would perhaps be the minimum required to be sure of an instant kill.

Marines would be immune to poisons, fuel air bombs - many of the Area effect weapons, and against the likes of a Land Raider, I'm not sure that anything short of a railgun shot would penetrate it.

As to stealing their weapons, I believe they're genetically coded so we couldn't pick them up anyway.

Insurgency works due to the value that is put on human life and money. Combat wise, it's a completely ineffective and inefficient use of forces, as you wouldn't resort to an insurgency if you were superior in ability and numbers. Against the Imperium, where losing an entire regiment is a drop in the ocean which the next second will be instantly replaced by women giving birth to children who are then conscripted into the armed forces.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

simple thing would be to send in the wolves. they would tell all loyal citizens to vacate the area and anyone left after the alloted time is getting their thread cut and lying in the snow err.... sand!


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

lol UP yeah if in doubt send in the rout they'll just batter the bodies till theres nothing left


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## Lima6 (Sep 30, 2008)

Why does it take an MBT round to take out power armour. Surely fluff wise it can and regularly is defeated by bolter rounds, which (iirc) have low muzzle velocity and rely on rocket propulsion post firing to achieve a decent level of ke penetration? The post impact explosion surely helps but the round itself has to penetrate first. Therefore why would rounds of smaller calibre than 120mm ish MBT rounds not do the job. I reckon anything 25mm plus fired from vehicle mounted turrets, or aircraft would be more than sufficient, especially when fired in bursts, ensuring multiple impacts.

Of course getting such weapons in aposition to strike would be the problem..... Perhaps modern aircraft and aviation would have a better chance, not that insurgents have access, but they can both target individuals far smaller than a sm....

I agree that any MBT round would do the job, but I reckon they are overkill for a sm, I reckon a sabot round would take out or severly damage even a terminator or dreadnaught if it hit centre mass, after all tungsten of du travelling at 1500m/s will certainly sting! Thoughts???


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Current;ly we have nothing capable of generating the kind of penetration available. A bolter is a .75 Calibre round with an explosive warhead - regardless of penetration, it'll begin to blow holes in. Fluffwise, Power Armour is defeated by Autoguns - pertrating joints, hitting eyes - but noone - not even the best Sniper in the World can guarantee that a heavy slow AK round would go through an SM's lenses, carotid artery, or spinal column (of which the fibre bundles in the armour connecting to the Black Carapace might render the snapped spinal column into less than a flesh wound - and that's if it can penetrate the reinforced skeleton on top of that.

GMG rounds lack the velocity, Rockets and the like aren't accurate enough, as they're Area Weapons, and the fragmentation etc unlikely to do enough damage, hence requiring MBT rounds and the like - combines accuracy - ranging from Laser Guided rounds, and speed, along with a warhead that's powerful enough to shred even a marine in a certain radius. 

Ben Counter's novels state that Autocannons can crack even Marine Armour - yet cracking is not penetrating. Yes, an Autocannon such as ADEN cannon or as said, a Bushmaster, fired in fast enough to land hits before a Marine drops to the ground (and still be close enough for the autosenses to not give the marine time to hit the deck between firing and the flash highlighting that, and the impact, yet well hidden enough to not spot from Air Support and the ever more advance scanners etc.).

It's impossible to really judge as GW have developed armour and alloys which have no chemical conposition, and only rarely a real steel equivalent (e.g 6mm of a Adamantium is equivalent to 30mm of Steel etc), and on top of that MBT Armour is extremely high value data that only the name is known to all but those who build it, so we can't really put an equivalent as to how an Adamantium hulled Rhino will withstand a HEISAP 30mm Round from an Apache Gunship, or whether the Hellfire Rocket will just bounce off the top.

Interesting points raised though.


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## Lima6 (Sep 30, 2008)

Fair enough, on second thoughts as you say one of the main problems is actually hitting them in the first place? How often do sm stand about in the open within range of the enemy?And as soon as you add in the factor that they would probably fire and manoeuvre, at least when facing weapons that can do them damage, and also be returning incredibly accurate and devastating firepower, then not much of today's weaponry would do the job. Perhaps the only hope for us would be that fluff wise they seem to expend huge quantities of large bulky ammo yet never seem to get resupplied? Does the Sm troop stripey carry 10 tonne of bolter rounds in his backpack, I think not!!! I don't ever recall in any fluff, any kind of logistic train for SMs or any mention of standard loadout or how much ammo they carry. Quite often they run out or get down to their last few rounds. In fact how many rounds does a bolter/bolt pistol hold?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I don't know about SM ammo, but personal experience, even routine patrols I carry 330 Rounds of ammunition, 120 Rounds of Sidearm Ammunition, and 200 of Minimi link, but that's all of either 5.56, or 9mm.

Now, Marines don't do patrol - however. Then again, they're often dropped behind enemy lines. There are accounts in several Imperial Armour about usage of weaponry. SM Terminator, such as Brothey Dayn, an assault cannon specialist. When he spools it up, after only a short contact, the rotary cannon has less than 2 seconds worth of ammunition left. I can imagine a Rhino, Land Raider, or Thunderhawk will carry hoppers of the kit to redistribute during lulls in the fighting - like myself, I carry 4 Magazines of my rifle ammunition in pouches (another in the weapon), a single 100 link in an quick release arm wrap around webbing patch, and 2 of 9mm, a further one in the weapon, the rest in is stuck in the backpack, so after 150 rounds in a firefight, I'd have to buddy up, and get the rest out of the grab bag, so the same I can imagine happening easy enough.

Still, not many gun porn readers are interested enough in logistics.

Using the same idea, carrying a sickle mag (30 rounds) of .75 calibre weaponry (3x wider than our current weaponry, and although mostly hollow filled with explosive), they're likely to weight a lot more.

But yeah, there are several types of magazine - a 30 sickle, a 20 straight, a 40 single drum, I'm guessing there's also going to be the equivalent of a CMag 100 round magazine, or a pannier magazine (basically holds a link of ammunition and catches the brass).


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