# Skaven, Vampire Counts, Lizardmen, OR.... ???



## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

So to break it down, we are starting an escalation league in August to introduce Fantasy to many new players and get the interest back in the older players (like me). I have a good sized Orc and Gobbo army and I just want to try something different. I have a some Skaven and Vampire Counts stuff I picked up bit trading at Adepticon and back in 2007 when a local game store went out of business and everything was dirt cheap... 

Skaven: 
1 Screaming Bell old style (unopened) 
1 Vermin Lord
2 boxes (unopened) of clan rats
4 Jazzelle gun team
30 or so clanrats (loose)

Vampire Counts:
Vampre lord (the one that has the bat wing arm)
Necormancer (mounted and unmounted)
1 VARGHULF
1 box Skeleton Warriors (partially assembled)
1 box Ghouls (Partially Assembled)

Lizardmen:
Nothing....

SO as you can tell i do have a decent start for two armies. I am up in the air on which ones to do its pretty much down to these three. I would be starting from scratch with the lizardmen... so help me out give me some pros and cons or ideas on how to choose...


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Skaven are going to be in the new starter kit if that sways you. And in all honesty are probably going to be far easier to play in the new ed. 

Skaven are the most versitile of the 3, followed by lizards, then the vamps. It really depends on what you like the background fluff, what you like the models, what you like to paint and whether you want a large departure from O&Gs style of play.


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## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

I like the looks of the skaven and Lizard men more so then I do the Vampire counts, lets face it undead is well undead, where Skaven can be painted in a mismatch style or as a uniform as you want, the Lizardmen are dinosaurs nuff said on that one, and the color choices on that can be greens, oranges, reds, yellows, oh my... Playstyle.. I realize the Skaven are a hordes army as is Vampire counts to an extent... tell me about the lizardmen playstyle....


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## Arli (Mar 4, 2010)

Well, I play Lizardmen. With the advent of the 8th edition, we have some major changes in what we can field. Gone are the days of running an Engine of the Gods in a 1500 pt game. You probably won't see those as much. 

Many people are not going to be using skink skirmishers (with blowpipes) because of the hit they took being skirmishers. I disagree with that. I think they are about the same because they can now march 12 inches and shoot 6 inches (18 inch range) and still auto wounding on 6s (jungle poisons). 

Skink Cohorts (Ranked skinks) with kroxigors may be getting more popular. I will field at least one horde unit of 50 skinks with 6 kroxigors (in the second rank). With the horde rule, I believe that will be 30 skink attacks and 18 kroxigor attacks (str 6). Plus the unit will be stubborn. Kroxigors also get a stomp attack as monstrous infantry.

Saurus will most likely be best used with the hand weapon and shield. This will allow them to take advantage of the 5+ ward save for Parrying ( may be 6+). 

Terradons are better, I think. They get the vanguard move (free 12 inch move before turn one-cannot charge in the top of turn one, but can if lizards go second). Also, terradons are now monstrous cavalry, they get a stomp attack at base strength.

Chameleons can be deployed in the open (12 inches away from the enemy).

Salamanders are extremely effective now. No more 4+ to see if they hit. With horde armies closing in, they can burn rank after rank of the enemy. Then there is the panic check they have to take (for even one wound).

Let's talk magic...
The slann will be able to own the magic phase. Lvl 4 wizard. Cupped hands of the old ones (to transfer a miscast onto your enemy wizard on a 2+). Then take Lore of Life and (ignore the miscast on a 2+) and bring back you wounded models! You can put this slann into a unit of temple guard and be confident that you can bring back any that may have been wounded.

All of this (There is so much more that I have left off) and cold blooded (3d6 for leadership discard low dice) for the leadership checks.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

But they are pricey so they tend to be quite small armies unless you go skink heavy.

skaven bring alot of toys like weapon teams, catapults, cannons, furnaces and bells, the grey seer could go toe to toe with the slann, but their magic is destructive rather than supportive. Plague monks will chew through anything without a good armour save 

but their rats rather than dinos..


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

I would say go with skaven in the escalation. 
at 1k you have more options and can outnumber and overwhelm most armies. Vampires have fewer choices in the lower point battles, yes they grow later on, but at this point, you might get mobbed and clobbered.

My opinion, play skaven. Not only does this edition seem to be their time to shine, but the new models are absolutely gorgeous.


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## Arli (Mar 4, 2010)

In 8th edition, the skaven are probably a better choice (cheap disposable units=horde). I still like my skinks though .


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Arli said:


> Kroxigors also get a stomp attack as monstrous infantry.


Only the front rank of monstrous infantry get to use stomp. Putting them in the second rank as your planning means they can't use stomp as the rule stats 'base to base contact is needed'.

They pointed this out in the hordes tactica on the main GW website, with the Orge horde only getting 6 stomp attacks for a 6 X 3 (18 models) unit of them.


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## Arli (Mar 4, 2010)

Thanks,

I missed that. In the game I played last weekend, the only thing left when I finished a charge on dome DEs was a skink chief and 2 krox. By then, they were in BtB for the stomp. I ended up winning the combat, they broke. The next turn, they rallied and I charged again. Those DE crossbows are quick to fire, so bye bye Krox & chief.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

No problem. I can see them having to do another FAQ for that as it wasn't clear in the 8th ed rules, or the updated FAQ's for units that can be mixed like that, otherwise it will get exploited heavily... 18 stomp attacks for a unit of Ogres? Or for that matter, Minotaurs... Ouch... Luckily its not like that.

Your right though that your Krox being monstrous infantry, do get their full attacks for support attacks.


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## CaptainBudget (Jun 14, 2010)

I'm pretty sure you would, as it says "Monstrous infantry in the second rank can make full supporting attacks" (not the exact text but close enough). Also, Logically if you get full supporting attacks over the shoulder of your Kroxigor mate, then why wouldn't you get it over the shoulder of a significantly smaller skink?


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## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

SKAVEN WINS !!!! yep decieded to go Skaven...


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Quick quick, call eshin, new chief thinks hes big, kill kill now

Welcome to the pettiness of the skaven


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## Arli (Mar 4, 2010)

Barnster said:


> Quick quick, call eshin, new chief thinks hes big, kill kill now



Just finished reading Grey Seer. I actually understand the talk squeek.


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## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

Yes... petty... very....very... hey where did that knife come _from_.... Can't wait till my Vermin Lords arrives from across the pond...


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