# Pros and Cons of 2 HQ choices.



## Starship Trooper (Dec 2, 2009)

I've done a lot of reading on these boards and I've noticed that many shy away from taking two HQ choices.

Why is this? I've heard the argument that its a point sink and that it takes away from unites that care score points... but if most my battles are going to be between 1500pts and 2000pts why not take 2 HQ's? Your advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

because for the 100+ points on the HQ + kitting it out aside from select armies (space wolves) its a WASTE of points until 2000+ to have multi HQs unless you have a very good cause (Space wolves with 130 point Rune priests that are just the sex comes to mind)


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Well, normally HQs cost a lot of points, and maybe a troop choice would be more expendable and useful (objectives also come to mind)


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

It depends. I play Imperial Guard and if I want to bolster my troops then I sometimes take two cheap HQ choices.

There are a lot of powerful choices to be found in the HQ sections of the various books, some people can't resist using them (or can't decide on just one!)


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

A lot of the time a Marine army's HQ choice dictates how the rest of the army will play. Vulkan encourages the use of a lot of close ranged weapons, whereas a Captain on a Bike is generally taken so that Bike squads can be taken as Troops.

Once you take the HQ that you need to theme your army in a certain way, you need to spend points on other units to make sure that the points spend in HQ are worthwhile. For example, if you spend the points on Vulkan, you're going to want to spend points on units that make the most of the advantages that he grants to the army - Terminators with hammers and shields, Land Speeders/Attack Bikes with multi-meltas, Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods and so on.

Also, for most armies, it's because it's generally better to have more boots on the ground than another HQ choice. A character model can only be in one place at a time and it's not uncommon to be able to afford a whole other squad for the cost of the second character plus upgrades.

All in all though, each player needs to make their own decision. Sometimes it's worth picking up the second HQ, especially in larger games (1,750+).


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## Zipding (Jan 20, 2010)

It's the same thing if your having a special characters if you only have 1000 points or under. My warboss is 115pts, however, a lot of people suggest using Ghazghkull, I like to stay away from him because he keeps me from fielding a full squad of boyz or my stormboyz or bikerz.


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## Starship Trooper (Dec 2, 2009)

Great stuff here guys. Thanks! I'm playing Imperial Fists and I want Lysander and a Librarian... 

So a command squad with a Librarian in it cant score points? I would like to put Lysander with a squad of Terminators and a Librarian with a Command squad in a 1,500 point army.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

depends on the army I play if I take 2 or not, if I was playing SPESS MAHREENS I would usually take 2, a captain and libby, for hitting power and psychic defense, plus there cheap enough as long as you don't go OTT (although I would never waste my time and points and money on a command squad, too small and useless)

with guard and nids I take 1 HQ, adding on all the extras soon makes the HQ expensive enough, and since I usually take creed thats just as good and expensive as 2.

Orks I would take 2 as well, Warboss and mek.

so it all depends on what force and your own personnel choice, doesn't matter what anyone else says, its all your choice in the end, just means you gotta put up with people moaning at you for not making your army just like theres.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

I don't usually like to spend more than 20% of my army in the HQ department, with my preference being around 15% usually. For my footslogging Orks it's a single warboss unless I'm running a kan wall, at which points it's one big mek for 1000 or less and 2 for 1500 or up. Once I get to 2k or higher the chances of me fielding another HQ for my footsloggers go up considerably. A mechanized force typically wants a KFF and a warboss or Ghazghkull even at 1k though.

For guard 1 HQ goes pretty far, as it does for eldar, since farseers and company command squads are mostly there to bolster other units. For marines it's more about what you want to accomplish such as changing out combat tactics for another ability or making a unit type scoring. When I make marine lists I often find myself running 2 cheap ones at 1500 or so like a chaplain to make some assault unit hit harder and a libby for psychic defense.

Generally you have to ask yourself if another HQ would help you more or another entire unit, since HQs can typically run about the same cost as a tac squad or dreadnought or even up to land raider.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

It does depend on the army. My nids have a cheap Alpha Warrior for an HQ, while my Space Wolves will have 3 Priests as my HQs (2 Rune and 1 Wolf). It comes down to whether you can keep them cheap yet effective enough that they don't chew into yoru points.


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## Flakey (Sep 24, 2008)

Its a very much per army thing. Like people mention for 1500 points onwards, it is almost obligatory for orks two have 2 HQs. *laughs* In fact I would love to have more HQ slots so I could field weirdboys in more than just throw away armies.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Well, it depends on four large factors. In no particular order:

1: Army use. Your HQ will determine how your army plays, whether they grant the army certain powers or let specific units be taken as troops rather than Elites/FA/HS/Whatever. Having two means they'll be kitted differently, and that may cause some conflict of use. Plus, the points you COULD be spending on another pair of Deff Dreads as a troops choice would be better spent taking said Deff Dreads than another Warboss.

2: Cost. HQ's are EXPENSIVE, and a single HQ can take up 10% of your army's points. That means that two of them will be one fifth of your army! For the cost of one of them you could field a new unit of troops. So before you buy that second Necron Lord, remember he costs as much as four destroyers if you kit him out. Are you going to get more use out of him than you would four destroyers? If the answer is no, shelf him.

3: Numbers. This ties in with 2, but is more about actual numbers of models than points. For the cost of a single HQ, you can often get a unit consisting of 8-15 more models. Thats about four times as many wounds to soak up, and probably the same multiplier of attacks and shots, though likely at a lower AP and S. The unit will likely be much tougher than the one model.

4: Army points. In larger point battles, taking two HQs is much more acceptable than in lower point battles, where you must seriously evaluate the value of that one unit as opposed to taking a larger one with the advantages described above.

I, personally, take two HQs because their operation is synergistic with my force and I would get more use taking that second HQ than not taking it. You have to decide what you'll get the most effective use out of.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

For Necrons there are several reasons why a double HQ choice is a good thing.

The options are usually (but not exclusively):

Lord (Orb) + C'tan = Orb for WBB support and C'tan for killing a whole enemy army on their own.

Lord (Orb) + Destroyer Lord = Lord for WBB support + Destroyer Lord for mobile trouble shooting and assassinations.

Destroyer Lord + Destroyer Lord = a CC oriented list with lots of mobility and a killer 2nd turn assault (the bane of Tau and IG armies), usually accompanied by vast swarms of Scarabs or a smaller and more elite 9 Wraith force.

Single HQ for Necrons works too, but a double team is very killy and quite common.


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## KeeperOfSecrets22 (Jan 26, 2010)

*big gunz are better*

2 HQ choices is a gamble that can pay out big depending on the fight. Not too long ago I played a CSM vs. Orks game where my opponent fielded Ghazkhull and a weirdboy. It was a 1300 point game. I had the Doomrider as my HQ. He isn't actually a part of the new rules which i'm cool with as he was a rather unpredictable daemon prince. In current edition he works as a Chaos Lord Biker, the only drawback being the double flamer is now a twin-linked bolter. HAte to spoil the ending but the Orks beat me having had the only troops left at the end of the game to hold one of the three objectives. My luck was particularly bad in this match , and the orks was not. Ghazkhull was forced to hide out for most of the match because of a 3 lascannon 1 autocannon havoc squad up until the 6 nobs with 4 power claws, and 2 big choppas murdered their lives even after their trukk exploded. Gorgabba da Warphead was able to be an effective shooter and even got some melee kills with the shootaboyz giving them that extra attack with a timely turn 2 waaaagh. All in all good times, my CSM of Slaanesh eagerly await their revenge on the Orky horde.


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## Blind (Jan 24, 2010)

Whats everyone's take on having two Tau comms? seeing as they haven't been mentioned. Now i mean just standard Tau Comms not the special ed ones or ether-fails. They have great BS which is great for Tau but at the same time they are more expensive than a crisis suit team so I'm stuck at an impasse, thoughts?


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Blind said:


> Whats everyone's take on having two Tau comms? seeing as they haven't been mentioned. Now i mean just standard Tau Comms not the special ed ones or ether-fails. They have great BS which is great for Tau but at the same time they are more expensive than a crisis suit team so I'm stuck at an impasse, thoughts?


If you're playing at a high enough point level where you run out of elite slots for crisis suits then another commander is alright. Otherwise they're just not worth it, costing about as much as 2 other crisis suits.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Culler said:


> If you're playing at a high enough point level where you run out of elite slots for crisis suits then another commander is alright. Otherwise they're just not worth it, costing about as much as 2 other crisis suits.


I'd disagree. I think the usual 97 point Shas'el is a steal. Hitting on a 2+ makes these guys _vital_.


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## Champion Auzias (Apr 30, 2009)

I'd almost always fill out my HQ slots with my templar. I mean, the champion doesn't techinically count, but I mean, I'd always take as many cheap bare-bones chappys as my opponents allow because they are just plain great for crusader squads. With them in the party I don't have to blindly rush and proceed to be kited.

As for guard, I'm still building my regiment, but I was planning on also using two command squads. One a Creed the other being cheap for extra orders. I also see lost of the really cheesy competitive lists (Something about a leafblower..) using dual command squads, so maybe that is a pattern? 

I was reluctant to take even one for my 'Nilla 'rines, though. I felt like the HQs were waaay too pricey for what you got inreturn, unless I was using someone wicked like Vulkan.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Chaos is almost mandatory to run 2 winged Daemon Princes.
Well, its not necessarily a must, but running dual lash princes is a lot more effective than just the one.
Even running dual Nurgle princes with warptime is very useful, and usually worth the points.

Most other armies though are better off spending the points on troops or even heavy support.

Its a pity that the cheapest Tyranid HQ is 80 points plus upgrades, and only effective if you run warriors. Next cheapest is a lot more expensive. 

Marines are the same.
I can remember back in 3rd edition buying a marine HQ with a CCW and a BP for 47 points so that i could maximize the points in my troops and heavy support.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

DE you rarely see a 2nd HQ but if you do it is a cheap 35pt dracon purely so you can take 9 more incubi in a raider with him - works a treat, I use this all the time 18 incubi whilst expensive can tear through gun lines and then come out and survive being shot at thanks to high armour (well for DE anyway)


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## liforrevenge (Oct 6, 2009)

I usually go with fielding 2 HQs in my Blood Angels as long as I am playing 1500 points or more. One reason being my three main options (dante, corbulo, lemartes) all make my other units more effective. Also, corbulo and lemartes are such great deals in terms of points, it's so hard not to take them. Add in the fact that I love all of their models and consider them some of my best paint jobs and I'm SOLD.


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## ihockert (Nov 27, 2008)

My HQs really depend on what army I'm playing and how many points. When I play CSM, I probably won't do two until 1750-2000 points. My Daemons typically max their HQs at 1500 points because I find it to be a pretty HQ centric force. Likewise my SW typically bring at least 2, a Wolf Lord and a Rune Priest. However, most games I get pretty good mileage from my HQ choices.


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