# Ogres killing Greater Daemons.. Arghh



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

So, recently my win-loss record against daemons is actually 100% (about 6 or 7-0)... Im not doing too badly at all. The probalem I have is that my Ogres just cant seem to kill greater daemons: I keep winning by wasting half my army leading the bigger daemons around and wasting their time while the rest of my army speeds about, gets into the flanks of plague bearers (or just charges bloodletters/daemonettes) and tears them to pieces (slowly when its plaguebearers).
- in my last 2 games vs daemons its finished with me having half an army and him having a GD (pts are normally similar... I win through table quarters and captured standards/BSB).

So far Ive faced and killed a Tzeentch GD, Khiros (?) and a Bloodthirster... all are evil but the ones with wings are just untouchable- it would take positioning my entire army as some sort of maze formation to avoid them just flying behind me and rear charging at will (or just avoiding my LoS).
I have beat the Tzeentch GD in combat (unlucky fool didnt beat my hunter.. letting 3 maneaters hit his flank and shread him), was never able to even vaguely trap Khiros into combat and the BT requires me to charge him with half my army to be able to win (he charged my Ironguts/Tyrant and rolled very badl and didnt kill my Tyrant- even with the tenderiser I only managed to do 2W back in 2 turns at which point my final irongut lost toothcracker and broke).

So I can barely wound them (hitting on 5+ with almost my entire army), dont have the SCR to rely on (gnoblars can add 3 ranks to the fight but its a bad daemon player that lest me get M4 gnoblars into the vital fight in time) and with a max shooting strength of 5 for the entire army book Im never gonna do anything unless I take 3 hunters and get lucky roles to wound (or take loads of leadbelchers and get insanely lucky).

Any ogres players got any tactics that work better then my 'lead them away, keep them away' strategy (stops GDs getting their points back but I'll never kill them and good players will ignore the slight diversions.. at some point they'll hit the centre of my army and help to crush it). The daemon players I play write decent lists but arent very good at using them... not something I can rely on but it gives me the occasional break.
Anyone else have a useful suggestion/tactic using units that suffer from similar problems (low SCR, low WS)? .... no I dont want to hear about how I should get some cannons or decent bolt throwers or magic (my magic literally cannot do anything to T6 immune to psychology models).


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Big and dangerous monsters is the bane of the OK army for sure. Your best bet is the Standardizer combo, aka Tyrant w Tenderizer, Wyrdstone necklace and something else. Perhaps Gutmaw so you regain wounds when you kill things in challenges:grin: While thinking about it I think this is the best loadout you can give your Tyrant tbh. Combined w HA, 2 Luck Gnobz and a pair of handguns for some pew pew shooting

The sad detail is that once the DoC player grows tired of it and gives his 'thirster Obsidian armour youre toast(negates effects of magical weapons):scare:

The OK list is so filled with tactical holes its almost sad. The book is soooooo full of awesome Ogre character but sadly this is transformed extremely poorly into the armylist:cray: 

Keep small units of Ogres. Not more then 4 man in any of them except one unit where you keep the Tyrant, and even that one shouldnt be bigger then 5-6 models. It costs too much compared to what you get. 2 3 man units of LA+IF equipped Bulls are better then one 5man unit w FC simply because its another unit for the army:good:

Leadbelchers should always have a champion and almost never be more then 3 man. Why? Because it spreads the hits from ranged weapons in the unit, thus making it harder to kill 1 ogre, and this way you have more time to shoot

A Scraplauncher might be good too, it can make a mess out of most things on the charge, but it means putting big faith into the impact-hit roll...


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Normally I give the tyrant greatskull and tenderiser and throw him in a unit with a MR 2-3 Butcher. I use 1-2 units of 3 bulls (either AHW or Ironfists.. normally skimp on the LA) and 4-5 units of 3 Ironguts (mebbe have 1 of 4-5 with a look out gnoblar standard). Leadbelchers I use in units of 2 and I never give them command- the book says that except for in challenges you cannot split wounds between command (so 3W means 1 dies unless some of them are taken in a challenge).
- I have used ogre units with ranks before now but would never do so in a serious army (20 ogres in a deathstar is damn scary for the enemy and can be almomst immune to magic... but shooting or big monsters can still make mincemeat outta them).

Scraplauncher is fun but its shooting will do feck all to GDs and impact hits wont bring down the enemy in 1 go... thats when it gets splintered by the S7+ attacks in 1 go


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Tim/Steve said:


> ...the book says that except for in challenges you cannot split wounds between command (so 3W means 1 dies unless some of them are taken in a challenge)...


Meh I realized my misstake. You need to get the champion, not the musician. His wounds are noted separately and allows wound spreading, as noted on page 16:wink:


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

I've used the mammoth armour & tenderizer to decent effect in the past. GD's are large targets, right? A hunter's harpoon might be a good choice then. That's all I can think of, it's been a while.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Mastodon armour is just heavy armour that pretty much stops you dying outside of combat (2+ roll at end of phase you died in if last wound was from magic/shooting, pass and you are alive with 1W)... good for hunters against cannon heavy lists but not against daemons.


Hunters will actually hit GDs quite well (except mine.. he can happily fail 5 turns a game hitting on 2-3+) but its only S5 so needs 5+ to wound GDs.

Using 3 hunters to fill all the hero slots (at 2k) would be a counter that might work (2+ short range, 3+ long range) but 3 hunters firing at a GD at long range only average 0.96W a turn (even with the extra strength test added...) so 6 turns later if all 3 are still alive the GD might be just about dead, or you just need to get very jammy early on (each shot can potentially cause 4W so 2 VERY jammy shots could manage it).


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

I just meant if you were suicidal/brave enough to want to attack daemons in cc; mastodon armour would get a Tyrant in the fray. Leadbelchers? Assuming you roll a lot of shots, and a normal amount of 6's, they can do some serious damage. Sorry if I'm out of it; I've never played against the new chaos 'dex, with or without ogres.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

A 660pt greater daemon would be the same cost as 12 Ironguts (making the artillery dice numbers nice).
So that gives 60 shots and 2 misfires (assuming they all get in range at the same time). So thats 40hits and 6.7 wounds done to the GD and 3.5wounds done to me (from misfires). Assuming the GD has a 3+As and his normal 5+ward hes down to a 5+/5+ meaing he takes about just under 3 wounds (or 1.5 for a nurgle GD). 

Yeah, sounds like its a potential counter on paper- getting that many Leadbelchers into range (12") and staying there long enough to reload and shoot again (3 turns for the 1st and 2nd shots) without dying would be hard and I would lose about 3 of them to misfires by the time I killed the GD... add in stand and shoot penalties and it stops sounding quite so good.
- I certainly think its probably the best counter ogres have, although not an outright good counter (and 4 units of 3 would fill all the special slots for a 2K army as well as being an excellent target for flying GDs to mush- stand and shoot is only 3/4 as effective as normal shooting and would only be from 1 of the units.. I would then get eaten in combat and broken).


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