# undead bats of awesome, or anceint lizards of cool?



## coalheartly (Jul 24, 2009)

So, the releaseof 8th edition seems like a good time to start fantasy. So I've narrowed down my choices to Vampire counts and Lizardmen. So, my question to you all is, what one wouldyou pick,and why? And what units should I get besides the battalion box?


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

VCs.

Generally much more fun in my eyes. Solid Characters that can mediate the battle. Plus you can stylise it heavily. You can either go for Casting and raising as Vampires can be made into very powerful Casters. 
OR
Go hell for leather and take a Combat army. Bloodknights lead by a Dreadlance Lord with Redfury. That unit will pang out an awful lot of Str7 hits, or give the lord Blooddrinker, so everytime he kills something, you get a Bloodknight back from the dead...again.

Ghouls are the Core choice to go with. Same points as a Skele but tougher, more attacks and Poisoned attacks.

Never pay points for Zombies, raise them. 

Never under-estimate A Varghulf.

Fuck lizardmen.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

i have both


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## the-graven (Apr 26, 2010)

Vampire Counts and Lizardmen huh.
As orochi said VC can be stylised more, since all vampires are very flexible, though I wouldn't recommend the Dreadlance he mentioned since he already has high WS, VC have good magic and solid infantry(I prefer ghouls), with solid I mean they don't flee, don't expect skeletons and zombies to kill somehting, varghulf and blood knights are hard-hitting and when flank charging wreak serious havoc and break the unit, though a nice infantry unit holding the target in place is needed.
Lizardmen, can be stylised but not as much as vampires.
For good magic you need a slann, skink priests are for a little support, the slann is and awesome mage. The other lord choice the oldblood is awesome in combat and well not too expensive, but he isn't cheap either. Saurus are solid infantry and krox/skrox and CoC can charge a pinned unit in the flank for extra damage.
Lizardmen aren't cheap nor really pricey, though I find kroxigors, CoC and Skinks a little expensive for what they do, some might disagree about the skinsk, but skink skirmishers are 7pts and pretty patethic in combat where they shouldn't be, for harrasment theyr are good, but still don't kill much, they are meant for high T low save enemies.

Well that was a lot fo talking without something usefull:victory:
But well on to the choosing:
Do you want to summon then take VC
Do you want infantry that actually kills somehting then take ghouls for VC, or saurus for LM.
Do you want infantry that can survive blow, go to the saurus.
well i can't think of more questions with answers.
VC and LM are really different, slann can buff or kill with their magic, they can take any lore fo the rulebook, while vamps can summon a lot or with forbidden lore take a lore from the rulebook.
VC have infantry that doesn't flee, but doesn't kill much either(except for ghouls and GG), while saurus warriors are tough and kill a lot too.
VC have more cavalry options, the one is weaker and cheaper then CoC and the other better and more expensive then CoC.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I think it depends on your play style- VCs are more tactical then lizzies, you are relying on a few units and characters to do the damage while you block the most damaging enemy units with tarpits.. which could be incredibly effective with the new rules (their biggest problem may well be that ghouls cannot have banners, and as such they'll struggle in blood and glory missions). Lizzies on the other hand are much more of a hammer army- they are all hard to kill (ignoring skinks), they are all solid in combat and will rarely break or flee unless something catastrophic happens. They also have some of the best magic and shooting in the game backing them up... but they can be a little tactically inflexible and predictable (though at least part of that is the lizzie players that I fight often).

Both are fun, but personally I would go VC just because you can be really sneaky with them and I find sneaky armies keep my interest longer- you can try many different ways to beat people.
For VC ghouls and zombies are going to be a major part of your army pretty much however you play and black coaches are great... after that irs down to how you want to play.
For lizzies its the same old choices of skinks and saurus that everyone will need... then if you are using a slaan you'll want temple guard (almost everyone does) although rarely that gets changed to a carasaur and cold one cav (or whatever teh lizzie cav is called- always get them confused with the DE cav).


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I'd suggest starting with Lizardmen for a variety of reasons. Perhaps most importantly, it's a cheaper army to build than Vampire Counts, so if you decide Fantasy isn't your cup of tea (unlikely, but you never know) then you won't have dropped $400 on a Vampire Counts army. The emphasis on large units of infantry for 8th edition means that to make an effective Vampire Counts army, you're looking at even more models than before, I think.

I also think Lizardmen might be easier to learn the game with, purely because they're a bit more forgiving. Before, I'd have said the opposite-- Vampire Counts were extremely forgiving. But with the changes to how Fear works in the new edition, they've become a finesse army, and that's not a good way to get into the game, I don't think. Lizardmen are overall balanced-- they're average in the movement phase, they're quite good in the magic phase, decent in the shooting phase, and Saurus Warriors are still perhaps the most points-efficient Core units in the game, so they're quite dangerous in close combat as well. That flexibility is what makes Lizardmen forgiving, I think. 

The Battallion is an excellent starting point. In fact, two battallions will get you most of the army. Another box of Saurus, a Slaan, and a Stegadon will get you to around 2500 points.


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## coalheartly (Jul 24, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice, I appreacte it. I'm probably gonna go vampire counts as I like the models, the ability to customize them, and the tactics. Besides, an army with flexible tactics is a plus in my book.


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