# Help with BA v. Necrons



## Sandalphon (May 26, 2008)

Hello everyone.

I’ve been having a lot of trouble beating my friend’s Necron army with my 1500 pt Blood Angels. He deploys three or four blocks of warriors very close together with a lord in the back and then usually keeps one or two monoliths nearby.

My list is pretty standard for BA. I have a maxed out death company with Lemartes, a veteran assault squad, two tactical squads, some attack bikes, and Baal predators. 

The combination of the lord’s resurrection orb and the monoliths make the warriors really hard to kill, and the particle whip can really mess up my death company on their way in for the assault. The problem is that I don’t have a good way to take out monoliths, which seem to be the biggest obstacle I’m facing. My melta weapons don’t cut it, so I was thinking about trying to fit a few lascannons into my list even though they’re very expensive and not common in BA lists. Maybe I could drop the baal predators for predators with lascannons? 

Any advice on killing monoliths with BA or just fighting necrons with BA in general would be great. 

Thanks!


----------



## mjobrien10 (Mar 6, 2008)

Max out your ass-cannons and that will help to knock out the warriors. I think you on track with the las on the predator. Maybe toss in a dev squad with some las too. Sometimes ya gotta give up a bit of flavor for the win.


----------



## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Ignore the lith and concentrate on the warriors, phase him out. The power matrix can only be used for either the teleport thing or the whip and not both in the same turn. If you shoot enough times he cannot keep making wbb rolls for ever. Try and isolate his lord if possible. I would deep strike a squad of termies behind his army and see how he deals with that. Also if he is deploying in tight formations then get some dev squads and use pies to damage him. I don't think BA have many, if any, ordnance options with the larger blast marker ?

Let us know how it goes man...

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Almost irrespective of what army you're playing, fighting Necrons is about fighting the Warriors. If he's bringing two monoliths, then your job is easy-- you don't have to kill that many warriors to get him to phase out. 

Make sure you've got some power fists, and go jump on the lord. As soon as he's down (and stays down, for that matter) then the rest of the army crumbles from plasma, power weapons, and assault cannons. Come to think of it, you might want to make sure everyone who can have a power fist does, just in general.


----------



## Kronus (Mar 1, 2008)

The Son of Horus said:


> Almost irrespective of what army you're playing, fighting Necrons is about fighting the Warriors. If he's bringing two monoliths, then your job is easy-- you don't have to kill that many warriors to get him to phase out.
> 
> Make sure you've got some power fists, and go jump on the lord. As soon as he's down (and stays down, for that matter) then the rest of the army crumbles from plasma, power weapons, and assault cannons. Come to think of it, you might want to make sure everyone who can have a power fist does, just in general.


Pretty much the advise I would give. Unless u have buckets of AT just ignore the monoliths and focus on killing warriors to force a res out. Another option is to take an Inquisitor Lord retinue with PC as ur ally so u can induct a Callidus Assassin. She will deploy right next to Lord and will very likely kill him outright if not mortally wound him.


----------



## Sandalphon (May 26, 2008)

Up until now I have just been trying to kill the warriors and go for phase out, but it can be tricky at times when my opponent keeps recycling his warriors through the monolith portal to help with the WBB roll. It was also a nasty surprise to learn that he could pull his squads out of close combat the same way and then unleash rapid-fire pain on my assault squads.

Still, it seems like massed firepower and powerfists are the way to go. I do think I'll try out some lascannons in my next battle to see how they work out. 

Thanks a lot for the advice!


----------



## Xaereth (Dec 14, 2007)

If you wanted to tailor a pure anti-necron list, just take a ton of las cannons and stay back. The effective range of his army is going to be 24", unless he brings destroyers. Shoot his monoliths, and then just pick the rest of his army off from a distance. Keep the DC back (and in cover!), and if he gets too close, assault them. Same with the tacticals and entire army. Force him to try to do something against the Las cannons.

I also like the Callidus assassin idea, I ALWAYS take her, for situations just like that. 

Also remember, with enough MM bikes, you can still take a monolith down easily enough. A six will ALWAYS penetrate, and then you have a 50/50 shot at killing it. And if he decides to shoot at the bikes (which should usually always try to be in cover) with his particle whip, he'll be concentrating on them rather than the las cannons.

And, if you need to, Death company should usually be able to kill a monolith a turn, with rending they'll mess it up pretty good, though of course they'll get rapid fired the next turn. Still, FNP and 3+ save will ensure that lots of them survive.

Hope it helps!


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Remember that to hit a Monolith in CC you have to roll 6s. Also remember that you can have 2 Monoliths in an army AND have more than 40 Necrons, so phase out will still be hard. 

I don't see how a DC can kill a Monolith. What do they have that can get through the armour?

The best tactic is to concentrate on a single unit until it is dead. The only way to be sure.


----------



## Xaereth (Dec 14, 2007)

Rending + reroll misses + S5 on the charge. W/ 10 DC charging,, thats 40 attacks that granted, only hit on a 6, but thats close to 7 hits, and then reroll 33 more, thats another 5 or 6, so a total of 12 or 13 hits, thats at least 2 6's, and then 3 to glance 4 to pen, you have a good shot at killing it.


----------



## CallumM27 (Mar 20, 2008)

What I don't understand is everyone says to kill the mass of warriors so why not take a vinicator or 2. Thoughs large blast templates should destroy an enire squad in one go and with strength ten hits you should be wounding on 2 or 3s. I'm planing to invest in one asap :good:


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Xaereth said:


> Rending + reroll misses + S5 on the charge. W/ 10 DC charging,, thats 40 attacks that granted, only hit on a 6, but thats close to 7 hits, and then reroll 33 more, thats another 5 or 6, so a total of 12 or 13 hits, thats at least 2 6's, and then 3 to glance 4 to pen, you have a good shot at killing it.


5th edition makes the rending bonus d3, rather than d6 - but as you don't get bonus dice against a Monolith anyway it makes rending pointless. You only get S+d6 against a Monolith. Thats it.

On a side note, it is very hard to kill anything with glancing hits on the new unified damage table.


----------



## Kronus (Mar 1, 2008)

CallumM27 said:


> What I don't understand is everyone says to kill the mass of warriors so why not take a vinicator or 2. Thoughs large blast templates should destroy an enire squad in one go and with strength ten hits you should be wounding on 2 or 3s. I'm planing to invest in one asap :good:


Simply put Nercons guass weaponary makes a mockery of armour and a lot of foot armies will use veil to extend its effective range past 24" add destroyers to the mix and you are very likely to either lose the vinidcator well before it gets in range (it would be a priority for any destroyers or scarabs) or will only ever get one chance for one shot off but its wiped out. The amount of glances a necron army can do at it 24" is hard to believe and av 14 will not hellp. Finally a res orb will give them wwb save whehter you posess a STR 10 weapon or not. I like the concept but think pragamtically it would be better to spend points on plasma cannons etc. Come 5th it will be far more effective as guass weaponary will not be so potent


----------



## CallumM27 (Mar 20, 2008)

What I ment by strength 10 is it will be eayto wound them and the intant kill hing wound only work against a lord.I thought if you wipe out he whole unit they cannot get WBB unless the lord uses the orb. But if it will die easily then i can undertand


----------



## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

the best idea is a shadow or storm sword

but i spose this is FoC 

so i agree with the plasma.

mind you a landy wouldnt be bad. the crusader is a TL ass cannon and with the combonation of 6 TL boltguns and a multimelta might help. but then theres the problem with the necron verses armour thing.

the best chance you have is to get a ordanace weapon. like a allied basalisk or some thing.


----------



## Kronus (Mar 1, 2008)

CallumM27 said:


> What I ment by strength 10 is it will be eayto wound them and the intant kill hing wound only work against a lord.I thought if you wipe out he whole unit they cannot get WBB unless the lord uses the orb. But if it will die easily then i can undertand


lol. A demolisher cannon is a lethal weapon . There can be no doubt. As mentioned they wont get WBB normally against weapons that allow no armour save in cc or would otherwise instakill them (e.g. Demolisher Cannon) unless they have a Lord with a Res Orb within 6" of them but the scenerio described originally is just this:



Sandalphon said:


> He deploys three or four blocks of warriors very close together with a lord in the back and then usually keeps one or two monoliths nearby.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I'd say drop the vet. assault squad. They're not that effective against necrons especially for their point cost. use it for more tac or dev. squads with plasmacannons or heavybolters, anything that can take out several at once. Also I'd aim the bikes at the monolith as if you fire enough at them something will get through


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

What do bikes carry? They need to be at least S8 to be able to glance it...

People often say it, and it is ignored just as often again, but the best thing to do is ignore the Monolith and hammer the Warrior core as hard as you can. Killing one unit at a time. If you kill all the models in a unit then any that pass the WBB must join another unit. Just keep going until there are no units left.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Attack bikes for BA carry multimeltas for 50 pts total. THey're str.8 ap1 so all glancing hits are penetrating, I agree with going after the warriors but if you have anti tank use it. And does rending not affect monoliths?


----------



## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

Lord Reevan said:


> Attack bikes for BA carry multimeltas for 50 pts total. THey're str.8 ap1 so all glancing hits are penetrating, I agree with going after the warriors but if you have anti tank use it. And does rending not affect monoliths?




No Monoliths have this living armor rule so you are never allowed to roll extra dice when you roll damage, i.e.; melta bombs, melta weapons, rending, so on and so forth. Additionally its a skimmer and Bright Lances have no effect either.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

You also always use base S against them, no doubling or other S modifiers allowed. You only get base S+d6.

As this is the only vehicle in the Necron army I am quite pleased that it is hard to kill. Without it, Necrons become a very static army. The Living Armour rule + AV14 on all sides makes them very survivable.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

In that case try and get some lascannons or a vindicator after it... better str. than multimeltas


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

S9 and S10 work well vs Monoliths, and I'm sure there are plenty of those in the SM army list.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

those 2 weapons I just mentioned are s9 and s10 respectively... expensive though so they're probably rare....


----------



## Sondosia (Jun 5, 2008)

Best thing I can say is drop the Baal Predators and attack bikes for a pair of lascannon fitted Predators. Focus on one Monolith to the point its immobilized then go for the other.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Sondosia said:


> Best thing I can say is drop the Baal Predators and attack bikes for a pair of lascannon fitted Predators. Focus on one Monolith to the point its immobilized then go for the other.


Remember that Necrons can take out vehicles really easily, you might be better off using infantry with heavy weapons rather than putting all your eggs in the Predator basket. No idea about how many Marine squads you can get for the same points as a Predator, but it must be a few at least.


----------



## Sandalphon (May 26, 2008)

darklove said:


> Remember that Necrons can take out vehicles really easily, you might be better off using infantry with heavy weapons rather than putting all your eggs in the Predator basket. No idea about how many Marine squads you can get for the same points as a Predator, but it must be a few at least.


When it comes to Blood Angels specifically, Predators seem to be one of the more cost-efficient ways to buy lascannons in my opinion. You aren't allowed to get lascannons in Tactical Squads unless you upgrade the squad to 10 men, so the whole thing will wind up being over 200 points if you go that way. (Plus, I like to keep my Tac Squads focused entirely on killing infantry. If I use combat teams to make a small AT team, then I'll have 4 marines standing around doing nothing while 1 guy shoots his lascannon.) You can buy lascannons for Devastator Squads with only 5 men, but the lascannon upgrade is REALLY expensive here. 

On the bright side, I hear that the 5th edition rules make it so that you can't destroy a vehicle off of a glancing hit unless it's already immobilized or something like that... Anyway, hopefully this will save any tanks I have from a quick death at the hands of massed gauss fire! :good:


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

The vehicles might be saved from a quicker death, but it does not stop the weapons being shot off. A 10x Warrior squad will get at least 3 or 4 glancing per turn, especially if they are in rapid fire range. Even if they can't blow it up right away they will prevent it being used. At least Marines get an armour save.


----------



## Sondosia (Jun 5, 2008)

darklove said:


> Remember that Necrons can take out vehicles really easily, you might be better off using infantry with heavy weapons rather than putting all your eggs in the Predator basket.


They *can* take them out with luck, part of that is you placing them where they can be shot at (hard to avoid with destroyers granted), but in all my games playing as them this hasn't happened once. I have stunned and shaken them for a turn or taken a weapon off but thats it (Scarabs however are very very different matter:grin. 

With the lascannons range I think it should be fine from the Necron Guns as there was no mention of Destroyers. I would try and keep 1 Baal as it looks like it really could rip open the tin heads.


----------



## Juiceypoop (Jun 5, 2008)

Those of you who are advocating the "take lots of guns stand back and blow the crap out of them cause necrons have pissy range" seem to be forgetign something, monoliths can deep strike, and then be used to teleport his entire army into rapid fire range. 

Assault is the best way to kill necrons, if you can make them fail a moral check and flee you can kill them all with a pursuit move.

I'd get rid of all your bikes and veichles and take lots of small assault squads, he only has large squads right? if you take lots of small squads he'll have too many targets too shoot at as you close in, and he'll end up wasting allot of fire power with over kill. it will also get you more free death company.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I had an interesting Battle last night against an SM player at my local GW store. 1500pts, his army was Las cannon heavy (at least 11, some of which were twin linked). SM player went first and only moved a few things. His stratagy was very much what a lot of people have been suggesting here, i.e. sit back with your tanks behind a hill and pound with las cannons until the necrons phase out.

He had a Predator and a Land Raider (2nd edition old-school model looked very cool), a dred with las cannon, a squad of termies with assault cannons, and 5 marine squads all of which had at least a las cannon and the devestator squad that had plasma and missiles too. He also had a bike thingy with a melta cannon on it i think.I was using a Destroyer Lord with a warscythe, 2x3 Destroyers, 3x Wraiths, 2x14 Warriors, 2x1 Heavy Destroyers and a Monolith.

He had first turn, and as my monolith was in reserve and my destroyers were neatly hidden behind buildings, he openned up on the warriors. 8 warriors fell to las cannon and crack missile strikes but still got WBBs because of the Lord's orb. On my turn I moved my Destroyers into firing possitions, and because they can move 12" and still shoot I was able to get a line on almost all his key units on the first turn even though he had tried to hide behind cover. I moved the wraiths up through cover to assault his command squad, which he had kindly moved towards me. My first shot: Heavy Gauss Cannon to the LR -penetrating - Vehicle Destroyed. The game went down hill for him from there really. I'm not going to do a full battle report, but basically anything that could hurt me I was able to hurt first and my guys would get back up if they were shot down. The Monolith deep striked on turn 3 right on top of his army and brought the lord and a squad of 12 warriors through the portal.

Summing up: the game did not have a turn limit, but there was a 3hr time limit. The Monolith did get blown up in the end and I was close to phase out (one more death would have finished me), but it took 4 turns of every unit shooting at the monolith to take it down and by then I had wiped out almost everything he had apart from the remains of a devestator squad and 2 termies. I assaulted the termies with my lord, they had power fists so I struck first, and four attacks with a warscythe were enough to kill them outright and I consolidated into the devestator squad, who were butchered the following turn.

It was a very close battle, but it did prove that sitting back will not work against Necrons because they can move into shooting positions very easily and once the monolith has deep striked on top of your army the rest of the necrons will not be far behind.


----------



## Syko515 (Jan 22, 2008)

sound necron tactics. and i applaude your winnings. i can tell you now what he did wrong and it started with unit choices. a landraider in any game smaller the 2000 is preposterus if you plan on being able to compete. he also should have had lascannons in the devastator squads and at least 1 or 2 more tactical squads out of it. had he concentrated his fire on the threats rather then your warriors he probably would have been fine. any of the destroyers should have been target number 1. not being able to get them then the wraithes take slot number 2. concentrated lascannon fire on each unit mentioned at any point in the game would have more then likely done the job in a few turns. next misson is the lord. i personally would have dropped a 5 man bike squad with powerfist on him or a couple of assault squads. tie him up and probably kill him if you strike with multiple units at once. WHEN the monolith hits table top blast it with every str9 lascannon shot he had. this should prevail in a turn or two. now the clincher, the left over warriors that are no doubt playing havoc with the marines by this point, CC is the best way to deal with them, though their stat bar is almost identical to a marines. their initative is only 2 so lightning claws and powerswords should do the job in a few turns.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

All his Marine squads had las cannons. He did manage to kill a squadron of Destroyers in turn 3, but they made their WBB and I ended with one big squadron of Destroyers. It took him 4 turns of shooting about 9 las cannons to kill the Monolith. The Wraiths were locked in CC with his HQ squad so could not be shot at. His dred was stunned and loosing weapons all over the place most of the game, so could not do anything. I was able to kill at least 1 squad and sometimes 2 squads per turn. His termies did a lot of damage with their assault cannons though, I recommend them against Necrons. But the termies failed their moral test and ended up running away for 2 turns until they rallied.

You need to lock Warriors in CC with specialist assault troops and you need to use high S weapons against the Destroyers.
Spending shots on the Monolith will get you killed, because everything else in the necron army will be chewing you up badly.


----------



## Syko515 (Jan 22, 2008)

that only works after you smash the monolith as it can warp a squad out of CC and then your vulnerable to rapid fire shots of gause. i hate to say it but necrons give you no choice but to go after the monolith first. onces its dead then CC all you want but until then your damned if you do damned if you don't. its why i stopped playing Newb-crons. their too easy to use. its like playing halo 2 and only ever using the missle launcher of sword.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Maybe the key, then, is to take out the Lord as soon as possible. WBB is not possible if the Necron was killed with a power weapon. Only a Lord can prevent this with his orb - with the Lord dead you would win fast.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Yeah go for the lord. Have a vet assault squad with lots of AP weapons go after him... They'd be good against a lot of necron stuff actually


----------



## Deceiver (Sep 19, 2007)

Lord is always (should be)hidden inbetween sqds of warriors to deny opp. btb with him.
As long as there is a monolith and/or Lord with veil,it will be difficult to stay in close combat with "necron" units.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

What if the Necron player has 2 Monoliths? This is not unlikely. And now that the Ordanance rules are changing it will be even more common because the Particle Whip will be more accurate = deadly.


----------

