# Where GW is headed?



## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

I'm not exactly sure where this should go, so mods feel free to move it, but with all the recent changes that GW is undergoing, where do you see GW heading? Will it ultimately end up going bankrupt? Or will it prosper? Personally I think they need to curb some current trends otherwise they'll end up the former. Also, for this matter, what would it take for you to stop playing/collecting/being a hobbyist for 40k (or warhammer or LOTR for that matter)? At what point would you say enough is enough?


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## baron_sathonyx (Jun 19, 2011)

i dont know where there heading nor do i want to think about it, to stop me collecting and so forth would them not sorting out the problems with finecast or a huge price rise


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

I probabley won't ever stop playing though i stopped supporting them a long long time ago. I no longer buy new models and i only ever visit their stores to buy paint or the ocasional rulebook/codex. 
If it ain't on ebay i ain't buying it and usually i'll aim for second hand or third party over new. My reasons? 
Games workshop have had a devil may care and if you don't like it lump it attitude to their customers and indy retailers for a little while now. They've forgotten that they started off as penniless slobs writing rules in a cottage and they've decided to play the big corporation game of fuck the little guy.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I first heard about Warhammer back in the early 90's and it had been around a bit then. It was considered a expensive hobby then and still is now. They don't really have any other companies out there that are giving them market share issues at the moment. Until one of the other companies out there hammers their market share I do not really think GW will change their tactics or be hurt by not changing these tactics. Just look at me, I have for close to 20 years now avoided the hobby because of the price but now I am getting into it and plan to build a 2k point army in the next year or two.


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

I see them going online and eventually just shutting down the fringe GW stores and maintaining just a major city presence - Just like all high street stores. Also I see them continuing to push their name and setting out to other companies. Fantasy Flight picked up the Dark Heresy line for example. GW have also invested more in Virtual Entertainment like Games - Dawn of War has been a massive success for them and THQ - so much so they (THQ) renewed their Licensing with GW to continue to carry the GW product namesakes. Dark Millenium will also have a considerable impact - a so-far guessed 2013 release means it's going to be coming in at a time when WoW is really into it's twilight years (for a game anyway) - which should be certainly interesting to watch pan out...Add to this Films, books and so on and you have quite a diverse company that should be able to keep it's head floating. 

I also see them consolidating who they sell to so eventually No 3rd party stores are selling stuff or using Bricks and Mortar loop holes. LOTR's will quickly disappear once their Licensing agreement finishes - I just don't see how they can keep it alive after really basing the whole line (imo) on the backs of the Movies. Maybe when "The Hobbit" comes out there will be a burst in sales, but I don't see it lasting. You'll probably see a couple more attempts at widening the game / universe. 

Other than that you'll see each little part of the master plan unfold every year. Finecast is a technology which needs refinement - which they will sort eventually, and they'll probably begin loaning out the technology to other miniature makers once they crack the issues with it. Finally - as long as we continue to breed obese children with no manners or hygiene there will be plenty of fuel, birthdays, Christmas presents etc to keep the future fires burning. 

Other than that take a look at some other companies: Privateer Press does a good job of keeping itself floating and it doesn't have half the overheads GW does.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

I have to agree that they seem to have forgotten their roots. I understand that yes, costs do go up but at the end of the day you're selling a piece of plastic. It doesn't have to be assembled, painted, detailed or any of the above by GW. That part is the whole point to the hobby. I've been at this hobby for about 10 years or so and all i've seen is price increases and nothing much changing with the quality of the bits until now (with the finecast). Some of the things I can't believe how much they charge for (the codexes are now $30 a pop or more for a book that is smaller than an encyclopedia I can get for the same price).


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## baron_sathonyx (Jun 19, 2011)

to be honest i wouldnt call finecast an upgrade in quality at the moment, 75% of the stuff i have brought either had huge gaps in it or has been too thin and snapped either in the blister or when being cut off of the sprue.

to where you said "a piece of plastic. It doesn't have to be assembled, painted, detailed or any of the above by GW" yes thats all it is a plastic something that doesnt cost to much to produce and easy to sell so why raise the prices on it?, i can understand the economical reasoning but theres a difference between highly priced and oh my god!, how much!!!!!

i dont mean to seem like a troll but GW has not made the best impression recently mainly for what they have done to the prices in america and australia(which i know doesnt effect me but its not nice that they have to pay that much)


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Personally i hope they go under. That might seem a little harsh but hear me out. They have lost all connection with what they used to be. The only way they will learn is if they go under and the IP is picked up by another organization that can do it right. The thing we have to remember is that the 40k universe will never die. There is too much of it and it will be picked up again if gw did fold. It needs to be run by people with an interest in the hobby as a whole, not bean counters.
Because of some of their recent decisions all of my purchases are ebay or bits site purchases.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

shaantitus said:


> Personally i hope they go under. That might seem a little harsh but hear me out. They have lost all connection with what they used to be. The only way they will learn is if they go under and the IP is picked up by another organization that can do it right. The thing we have to remember is that the 40k universe will never die. There is too much of it and it will be picked up again if gw did fold. It needs to be run by people with an interest in the hobby as a whole, not bean counters.
> Because of some of their recent decisions all of my purchases are ebay or bits site purchases.


What do you mean "run by people with an interest in the hobby?" Do you mean "run by people that forgo profits" or people that want just better quality products. If it's the former it's never going to happen, if it's the latter I think everyone wants that.

Personally I'd rather GW not fold. If another company picked up the IP we'd have to deal with changes, and we know how this community deals with change.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Run by people with an interest in the hobby. They understand the hobby and don't alienate the users of their product and make a profit with that in mind. Not too difficult really. Problem is gw have completly lost focus. When GW was young they had it right.


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## Tzeen Qhayshek (May 4, 2010)

shaantitus said:


> Run by people with an interest in the hobby. They understand the hobby and don't alienate the users of their product and make a profit with that in mind. Not too difficult really. Problem is gw have completly lost focus. When GW was young they had it right.


Don't be so naive. If GW would fold another company would pick it up - they too would not give two craps about the hobby and squeeze as much money out of it as possible. Further, if GW does go under, the hobby will go with it and the IP will become a breeding ground for new video games until it becomes monotonous and boring.

I feel as if I am in the minority. I do not have a single issue with GW at all. They make a quality product. Yes, their prices are high but I shall continue to buy within my means at the slowest pace necessary. Personally, I hope GW thrives. I love their games and I hope they continue to make good products and everything else they make.

I do, however, believe that one day GW will come into conflict with other miniature companies as price will drive potential hobbyists and even current hobbyists to seek subistitutes. Other companies will grab a share of the market and GW will be forced to lower prices to compete or be priced out of the market. And if we know anything we know that GW knows how to make money - so they are likely around to stay.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

Well, I have to say I don't want to see GW go under as I like 40k too much to see it go away. I too will continue to buy (either from ebay or elsewhere) but at a slower and slower pace as the prices go up. I have no problem with the quality of the items GW says (i love the paints and can't seem to find any others that match the colors). If GW was a US based company I would have to agree with the sentiment that a competing company would give GW a run for their money to keep their prices competitive, but GW is a UK based company. (I'm certainly not familiar with UK copyright law and such so take this next part with a grain of salt) In the US you can only have a license on ideas and such for only a set amount of time, after that it becomes fair game, this seems to not be the case in the UK. Also, given GW iron grip on their IP, it wouldn't forsee another company coming up with minis that are remotely close to what gw produces.


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## countchocula86 (Sep 1, 2008)

I definitely don't think they are going to go under anytime soon. They have survived for a long time, and they will keep surviving. Regardless of all their other stuff, people will continue to buy their minis.
But, I do think they are painting themselves into a corner. It practically feels like they hate the internet, and considering the times I think that's probably the worst attitude. I think ultimately all they are doing is laying out a welcome mat for Privateer Press, Mantic, and any other intelligent mini companies. So, from my perspective, its not too shabby.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

shaantitus said:


> Run by people with an interest in the hobby. They understand the hobby and don't alienate the users of their product and make a profit with that in mind. Not too difficult really. Problem is gw have completly lost focus. When GW was young they had it right.


"They understand the hobby," what does that even mean? My vision of the Hobby could be completely different from your vision. I could be focused on nothing but tournament play while you could be focused on the modeling aspect. Who's vision is correct? What you're asking for is difficult because if you ask 10 members on this board what the hobby is you will most likely get 10 different answers.

As for "When GW was young they had it right," when GW was young they weren't that great. Their rule books were overly complex, their product lines were very limited, and their codices were complete shit. Now at least we have codices that are somewhat balanced, simplified rules at the core, and product lines with many choices in them (except Necrons).

At the end of the day I just have this to say. You clearly want to continue buying products from the licences GW holds (40k, WHFB, or LotR), well all those pretty models and game supplements have been designed and built because of the business practices you claim have a problem with. Remember that the next time GW releases a new model that you really want, it's design was paid for by "alienating" you (though if you still WANT their product they really haven't alienated you).


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## countchocula86 (Sep 1, 2008)

> ...because of the business practices you claim have a problem with.


No business survives by clinging to the same business model for 20-30 years. Im not saying GWs model is wrong, Im just saying that the business practices that made GW successful arent necessarily the ones that will continue to sustain them.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

I don't think anybody here will argue that GW hasn't created a great product and IP along with it. That is what has made them successful. What they're doing with it now seems to be taking it in a direction that doesn't benefit the actual gamers and people that support it. In an age where everything is near instant it doesn't seem to befit GW to take on a business model where they release news of something that then doesn't appear for years (think of alllll those new units that appear in codex updates that don't have the models launched for years).


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

> Now at least we have codices that are somewhat balanced


Up for debate.

/grumbles

Price hikes or not, GW doesn't have any threats to it on the food chain. Not now, not 20 years ago. That's why they get away with it.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

The thing that seems to have everyone pissed is the price hike. While resin models might be cheaper to produce do any of you seriously think they are suddenly making pure profit from those models? The majority of their model sales would be their plastic lines from what I can tell. The main chunks of many of the armies seems to be plastic. As to the price hike itself, with the way the economy world wide has been this is not a shock either. Just fuel prices alone in regards to shipping is most likely hurting. As to GW folding and being bought out, that would be the end of anything with the GW trademark on it for the next decade as various groups fought for the IP rights in court.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

shaantitus said:


> Run by people with an interest in the hobby. They understand the hobby and don't alienate the users of their product and make a profit with that in mind. Not too difficult really. Problem is gw have completly lost focus. When GW was young they had it right.


LOL, sorry but one of the prerequisites for employment at GW is an interest in the hobby, in many ways i think this is one of the things that hampers the company, because they employ gamers and fans almost exclusively they are missing out on talented people with skills that would transfer into GW easily enough.
They employ gamers to staff the shop, which is great, but in many ways gamers dont always make the best sales people, personally i would like to see them employ people who have a head for retail first and then learn the product second, after all its three core systems and model kits,books and modeling equipment they sell, its not high end tech or medicine they are flogging.

As for the original question, they are market leaders, they are buoyant, they have weathered a recession, they have the rights to The hobbit which will be massive for them, they have loads of new licensed games hitting consoles and pcs in the foreseeable future, they have launched warhammer forge and FW is knocking 40k models out of the park and GW is finally revamping the forgotten armies like DE and doing it very very well....what more can we really expect from them? 

(this is were people will start saying cheaper models and updating xy and z because it affects them personally rather than looking at it as a global company with hundred of stores and employees etc)


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Im not sure I agree GW has always been an expensive hobby. I remeber when they did 3 rhino box sets fro £10.

But in the last 15 years it has certainly always been pretty pricey with most armies being all metal at that time.

Not sure what is meant by were are they going. They always seem to be making money even in these rather more austere times, so hpefully they will continue to make what I consider a great game with great minis which I can play with friends.


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## baron_sathonyx (Jun 19, 2011)

i honestly think GW need to step back look at smaller companys and see what they can do different to improve in there own. that could be all it takes, but the chances of this happening are extremely slim.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

baron_sathonyx said:


> i honestly think GW need to step back look at smaller companys and see what they can do different to improve in there own. that could be all it takes, but the chances of this happening are extremely slim.


problem is most of the small companies are trying to emulate GW or tap its customer base with similar products so it would be difficult to take anything from them. Also many of the smaller company strategies are incompatible with GW because its much larger and has a different set up to every other game companys, many of the things people on forums quote as being positives for smaller companies like mantic and its prices cant be done by GW due to its massive overheads caused by the hundreds of stores and international foot hold. 
that said i do agree, Any company should always see what others are doing because they may have an idea that can and will work for you in the same format or with some slight changes, i dont think for one second GW just sits in its ivory tower counting the coin, i think alot of the changes GW have made are not obvious to the consumer at a first glance, CAD and rapid prototyping spring to mind, tools that have been used in industry for quite some time and companies like tamiya and dragon have been making use of this tech for along time have really made a huge difference to the amount of models GW can pump out, seriously thinking back only a few years three plastic kits a month was unheard of, if we think waiting for GW to fill codex gaps is bad now, then you were not around in the dark days when you were lucky if you got a kit a decade!


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

The same way as this plane:


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

countchocula86 said:


> No business survives by clinging to the same business model for 20-30 years. Im not saying GWs model is wrong, Im just saying that the business practices that made GW successful arent necessarily the ones that will continue to sustain them.


As shown by GW shifting their business strategy in recent years. They have constantly evolved their business practices in order to make themselves the number 1 company in their market. GW will also continue to adjust their business practices to maintain their position.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

shaantitus said:


> Run by people with an interest in the hobby. They understand the hobby and don't alienate the users of their product and make a profit with that in mind. Not too difficult really. Problem is gw have completly lost focus. When GW was young they had it right.


This has already been touched on, but I couldnt let it go.

When GW was a very young company, they sold games from all manufacturers. They had none of their own products and they had no minature line.

When they got a little bit more established they adding in their own minature line (citadel), with some rudimentary plastics shortly after (and man they were awful!).

A bit more established and they started up their own game, in the same vein as the other games of the day - fantasy.

They finally openned enough stores to have a decent part of the UK covered (And even one in the US) and they had their own second main game (40K) and ceased selling other maunfacturers products.

They then started to expand their product line releasing additional games (later called specialist games) as well as a third core game (EPIC).

Since then they have (in no particular order):
Shut down their 3rd core game
Started another core game (LOTRs)
Had movie tie ins
Made their own movie
Made at least 18 PC and consol games (to various success)
Made their releases more focused
Moved to 2 different non plastic mediums (Lead-peuter-resin)
Openned and closed at least 5 different business diviisions (black flame, black library, forge world, warhammer forge, sabretooth games and quite a few I cant remember).

So - which version of 'young' GW were you refering to? They are one of the most adaptive companies out there and they seem to change their business strategy on an almost yearly basis.

And all of that and more is since about 1975 - so in 36 years they have had more change than companies that are 50-100 years old.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

@Maidel

Congratulations on a well written post.

As to the direction of GW, well i see that one day that GW will only sell inhouse via their Bricks and Mortar and online shops, they will over time will eventually cut all ties with Independents, i believe that GW will exponentially grow their B&M stores in direct competition to Indies.

Not only that but eventually they will sell everything in their range in plastic.

Not only that but i think that one day Forgeworld will be taken over by GW and have their entire range be Plastic as well.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Achaylus72 said:


> @Maidel
> 
> Congratulations on a well written post.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks :biggrin:

I agree with everything you said (especially the first 2 lines), appart from the forgeworld bit.

I do think in time they will 'reabsorb' forgeworld - but I think unless plastic casting becomes markedly cheaper, they will keep the small run items in resin as many of them dont sell enough to cover the cost of the plastic molds.

That is all dependant on the cost of the steel molds staying extremely high - if a more viable or cheaper method of casting plastic becomes avaiable, then I think GW will jump without a seconds thought.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

Achaylus72 said:


> As to the direction of GW, well i see that one day that GW will only sell inhouse via their Bricks and Mortar and online shops, they will over time will eventually cut all ties with Independents, i believe that GW will exponentially grow their B&M stores in direct competition to Indies.


This is what i view as the death kneel of GW in the future, if they do actually take this route. where i live the closest GW store is about 5.5 hours away in Chicago/Baltimore/Philadelphia.

Now in the UK ive heard that this is pretty close to the norm, but unless they invest heavily in expanding their B&M stores in the US/etc all they will do is alienate their consumers - who would rather pick up a different game system and support their FLGS. It would very quickly turn into a "Us (the consumers) vs Them (GW)" war.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Fallen said:


> This is what i view as the death kneel of GW in the future, if they do actually take this route. where i live the closest GW store is about 5.5 hours away in Chicago/Baltimore/Philadelphia.
> 
> Now in the UK ive heard that this is pretty close to the norm, but unless they invest heavily in expanding their B&M stores in the US/etc all they will do is alienate their consumers - who would rather pick up a different game system and support their FLGS. It would very quickly turn into a "Us (the consumers) vs Them (GW)" war.


 
They arent stupid. There is no way they would move in that direction until they felt they had a good enough coverage.

They could do it right now in the UK, there are so few stores that stock their entire range.

But thats evidence that they dont want to go that way - because they already could, and they havent.

I think they like using other stores to carry their products in areas they dont want to go to because it wouldnt be profitable.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

America and Canada Are very Profitable, DoW is probaly more popular here than Europe. Same with most Vidoe/PC Games, however there is very few GW Stores in America and most have no clue its a Table Top Game with Models..... Another profitable place was Australia from what I understand....


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> America and Canada Are very Profitable, DoW is probaly more popular here than Europe. Same with most Vidoe/PC Games, however there is very few GW Stores in America and most have no clue its a Table Top Game with Models..... Another profitable place was Australia from what I understand....


Australia's a bit different; most people are aware that DoW and Fire Warrior are intrinsically linked to the tabletop game (in my experience, anyway). We also have a quite high number of B&M stores per capita (in Sydney at least, there are 10 GW stores, ignoring independants); I actually go past two other GW stores in order to get to my regular battle bunker.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

There ya go.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

When i go to play i will bypass the local indie to travel about 60 miles on the train to play at my closest GW store, there i get to talk to folks i know, and play.


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## Wingman (Jun 27, 2011)

I think GW is actually headed in the right direction. From what I have seen the Citadel models are about the same price as the models from Privateer Press. Also the rulebooks are getting better although they still need some tweaking and group oversight to stop a couple authors from making bad decisions.

Overall I like the current game for both 40K and WFB.


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

I feel like GW would make much more money If they halved the prices of their products. Instead of people struggling to make a single army people would have 3-4 armys.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Would be willing to bet if they did that they would fold. I doubt they are swimming in cash like scrooge mcduck.


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