# Can you really call the Eldar a "dying race"?



## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

Sure, the craftworlders are dying out. But from every description I have heard of Commorragh it is huge beyond imagination and growing. By some descriptions Dark Eldar number in the trillions and nearly all of them are deadly warriors. The Fall might have been a blow to the Eldar, but not a crippling one.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Well considering the fall tore out the heart of the Eldar empire, took away their worlds, forced the Eldar to flee to either the webway or craftworlds, and consigned the Eldar to have their souls trapped within stones or feed on the pain of others lest they be devoured by a chaos god. I'd say the Eldar are likely a fraction of what they once were.


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

GabrialSagan said:


> Sure, the craftworlders are dying out. But from every description I have heard of Commorragh it is huge beyond imagination and growing. By some descriptions Dark Eldar number in the trillions and nearly all of them are deadly warriors. The Fall might have been a blow to the Eldar, but not a crippling one.



I must ask; Which sources state that commorragh is growing? And what does this growth depend on. Newborns or immigrants? 

Craftworld eldar numbers are slowly dwiddling. And I believe Dark Eldar are vulnerable cause such huge proportion of their numbers live at one place. Atleast from what I have understood of Dark Eldars.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

Moriouce said:


> I must ask; Which sources state that commorragh is growing? And what does this growth depend on. Newborns or immigrants?
> 
> Craftworld eldar numbers are slowly dwiddling. And I believe Dark Eldar are vulnerable cause such huge proportion of their numbers live at one place. Atleast from what I have understood of Dark Eldars.


That one place is infinitely big. The DE grow their population with vatborn soldiers that are identical to trueborns (except for the nepotism given to them).

I am not saying that the Fall was not a blow. I am not saying the Fall didn't gut their empire. I am saying that everything I have read and seen suggests that the Dark Eldar will be around long after humanity is driven to extinction. So how can they be considered a dying race?


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

GabrialSagan said:


> That one place is infinitely big. The DE grow their population with vatborn soldiers that are identical to trueborns (except for the nepotism given to them).
> 
> I am not saying that the Fall was not a blow. I am not saying the Fall didn't gut their empire. I am saying that everything I have read and seen suggests that the Dark Eldar will be around long after humanity is driven to extinction. So how can they be considered a dying race?


The dark eldar have to feed off pain of sentient species. The older they get more the often they have to feed. As their population grows they require more resources in order to survive, their typical food source is going to dwindle as their happens.
And given the nature of the DE they are going to kill each other for the resources.

Here's a graph to show what essentially is going to happen. Yes yes I know it uses wolves and deer, but it's the basic Idea.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I think its a figure of speech and leaves it open for the Eldar being a major force in the 40K universe. I would say it definitely seems like they aren't growing sufficient enough to other races. That graph is a good depiction of what it could be.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

ckcrawford said:


> I think its a figure of speech and leaves it open for the Eldar being a major force in the 40K universe. I would say it definitely seems like they aren't growing sufficient enough to other races. That graph is a good depiction of what it could be.


Eventually the DE are going to starve themselves out.

According to most fluff they harvest mostly humans, well the largest source of humanity is currently besieged by half a dozen threats. So if they want their largest food source intact they would have to go out and "defend" it. All the while losing members of their population.

Then there's their harvesting methods, chances are they aren't concerned with leaving a good selection of breeding stock. So eventually it's going to give out.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Moriouce said:


> And I believe Dark Eldar are vulnerable cause such huge proportion of their numbers live at one place.


You are incorrect. Commoragh is considered one city, but it is comprised of components vast distances from each other. The passages of the webway make traveling between easy, but losing one section does not mean they will lose it all. I believe invasions have taken place in the past, parts of the city have been lost or damaged but on the whole it remains strong. 



GabrialSagan said:


> I am saying that everything I have read and seen suggests that the Dark Eldar will be around long after humanity is driven to extinction. So how can they be considered a dying race?


Their only means of survival regularly requires risky and potentially fatal combat, there are a limited number of safe places for them to live, They compete with aliens and each other as well as risking their souls for everything they accomplish. Coupled with the low reproduction rate all eldar have and yes, they easily fit the description of a dying race. 

They've been dying for ten thousand years, they could keep dying for another ten thousand before they are finally gone.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

A few things that I picked up on. 

Reaper45: you are assuming that the DEs prey population does not grow orders of magnitude faster than the DE population. Orks can outbreed everything else in the galaxy save the tyranids. It is virtually impossible to run out of orks. The reason that they harvest mostly humans is because it is convenient, humans are plentiful and relatively easy to acquire. You are also neglecting the fact that since they can grow Eldar in a vat they can probably do the same with humans if they wanted to. I imagine the difference would be much like the difference between wild salmon and farm raised salmon. The wild stuff is better, but it can be costly, but people can take farm salmon and seed it back into the wild. Who knows, maybe DEs prefer the taste of Tau.

Serpion5: Craftworlders and Exodites have a low birthrate but DEs do not. Thanks to their vats they can grow their population as rapidly as they want.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

GabrialSagan said:


> A few things that I picked up on.
> 
> Reaper45: you are assuming that the DEs prey population does not grow orders of magnitude faster than the DE population. Orks can outbreed everything else in the galaxy save the tyranids. It is virtually impossible to run out of orks. The reason that they harvest mostly humans is because it is convenient, humans are plentiful and relatively easy to acquire. You are also neglecting the fact that since they can grow Eldar in a vat they can probably do the same with humans if they wanted to. I imagine the difference would be much like the difference between wild salmon and farm raised salmon. The wild stuff is better, but it can be costly, but people can take farm salmon and seed it back into the wild. Who knows, maybe DEs prefer the taste of Tau.
> 
> Serpion5: Craftworlders and Exodites have a low birthrate but DEs do not. Thanks to their vats they can grow their population as rapidly as they want.


I wonder if the new DE codex will shed more light on this. Codexes have gotten way too expensive to buy but I used to buy them for things just like this.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

GabrialSagan said:


> Craftworlders and Exodites have a low birthrate but DEs do not. Thanks to their vats they can grow their population as rapidly as they want.


No, their vats allow eldar to be grown outside the womb rather than in, that's the only real difference. Others are simply clones of warriors killed. Their birth rate is presumably the same, but their death rate is slower than it would be.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

after reading Valdor, I would say the Eldar are up for a revival


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Why do Dark Eldar not use spirit stones again?


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> Why do Dark Eldar not use spirit stones again?



They despise the outlook of becoming prisoners in the Infinity Circuite. They strife after immortality instead, living on the pain and suffering of others. And if that fail, I think I have heard that the Hemoculus can sometimes transfer the soul into a new, coline for his master.


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## Zakath (Feb 23, 2011)

I'd say they don't use waystones because the technology is inherently psychic and DE don't do that kind of stuff.

Eldar are definitely dying but the real question to me is why. Apparently craftworlders just dont like sex or dont want to give birth to children when their future is so uncertain...


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> No, their vats allow eldar to be grown outside the womb rather than in, that's the only real difference.


And that the embryo's growth is "hyperaccelerated". 



Zakath said:


> Eldar are definitely dying but the real question to me is why. Apparently craftworlders just dont like sex or dont want to give birth to children when their future is so uncertain...


"The Eldar gestation cycle takes many laborious years to complete". Combine this fact with the rigorous lifestyle of the path system and the need to prevent peaks of emotion in order to fend off the encroachment of Slaanesh means that the Craftworld Eldar cannot repopulate their race at a level which exceeds their death rates. The Craftworlders live a tame and, in many ways, horrible life - and they are slowly slipping into extinction.


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

Zakath said:


> I'd say they don't use waystones because the technology is inherently psychic and DE don't do that kind of stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Eldar are definitely dying but the real question to me is why. Apparently craftworlders just dont like sex or dont want to give birth to children when their future is so uncertain...



Don't like sex? Don't want to give birth? From where do you get this? 

In the Eldar trilogy they both have and enjoy sex. And they dream of future children. Craftworlds do grow at a slow rate and damaged they do recover. But as their growth is so slow they are also vulnerable to cataclysmic events. In the greater tapestry of the galaxy they are on a downward route.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Moriouce said:


> Don't like sex? Don't want to give birth? From where do you get this?
> 
> In the Eldar trilogy they both have and enjoy sex. And they dream of future children. Craftworlds do grow at a slow rate and damaged they do recover. But as their growth is so slow they are also vulnerable to cataclysmic events. In the greater tapestry of the galaxy they are on a downward route.


But if they focus too much on it they attract the attention of she who thirsts.

It's the entire reason for the eldar paths to exist before they did whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. The paths force them to focus on one thing preventing them from getting the excess part.

Combined with the efforts of the laughing god it's the only thing preventing them from suffering the same things the DE suffer from.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Its definitely curious as to how they expand the strength of the Eldar considering there will be a whole Black Crusade Series out, in which much of the Craftworlds have to deal with.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> And that the embryo's growth is "hyperaccelerated".


What is the eldar estrous cycle? Is is like humans, horses, cats, dogs. Just because you take the embryo out and crank up the development speed doesn't mean they will be able to reproduce faster.


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## Brobaddon (Jul 14, 2012)

> "The Eldar gestation cycle takes many laborious years to complete". Combine this fact with the rigorous lifestyle of the path system and the need to prevent peaks of emotion in order to fend off the encroachment of Slaanesh means that the Craftworld Eldar cannot repopulate their race at a level which exceeds their death rates. The Craftworlders live a tame and, in many ways, horrible life - and they are slowly slipping into extinction.


Long story short, an eldar male can hit dat ass for a long time without her getting pregnant. Now that's simply awesome. 

On another topic, eldar used to control whole of galaxy right? I wonder if previous Eldar's empire was actually bigger than Iom....


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

It was bigger on account of their tech and population.

Prolly is a direct quote in a codex that states this


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> "The Eldar gestation cycle takes many laborious years to complete". Combine this fact with the rigorous lifestyle of the path system and the need to prevent peaks of emotion in order to fend off the encroachment of Slaanesh means that the Craftworld Eldar cannot repopulate their race at a level which exceeds their death rates. The Craftworlders live a tame and, in many ways, horrible life - and they are slowly slipping into extinction.





LordOftheNight said:


> Long story short, an eldar male can hit dat ass for a long time without her getting pregnant. Now that's simply awesome.


Actually, what it means is the gestation, or pregnancy, lasts many laborius years. So after years of being unsuccessful (since the point is to get pregnant), the males then get to have a spouse amped up on hormones and uncomfortable for years on end. The procreation process for the Eldar, while ultimately being very joyous if successful, sounds like a depressing failure most of the time.


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## Karthak (Jul 25, 2010)

piemelke said:


> after reading Valdor, I would say the Eldar are up for a revival


I haven't got that one. Spoilers, pretty please?


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Karthak said:


> I haven't got that one. Spoilers, pretty please?


Ask and ye shall receive.



Basically it's though that when slaanesh claims an eldar they are damned forever. However it's implied that a new eldar god is going to rise from the souls of those lost.


PG 194 if anyone is wondering.
Assuming that I'm interpreting it right.


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