# The Crimson Fist



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Did I miss something or can you now buy the Crimson Fist ebook before Shadows of Treachery has come out?

http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/the-crimson-fist-ebook.html


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## Worldkiller (Jun 16, 2010)

Yes, that would indeed seem to be the case.


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## Lord of Ruin (Jul 22, 2012)

Im gonna wait for the release of the actual book, as i have all the limited edition novellas so only this and ADB's HH novella wil be the only ones that i have not read.

To be honest was surprised they did this as it only leaves one surprise left for those thathave read the other novellas. Hope im wrong.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I think they felt they overcharge this e-book so only really desperate people will buy it. I for one would rather wait.


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## Freakytah (Nov 20, 2009)

forkmaster said:


> I think they felt they overcharge this e-book so only really desperate people will buy it. I for one would rather wait.


That, and for people like me that just briefly scanned the page and missed that it will be in the upcoming book. I was going to buy it, good thing I saw this post and realized I'm an idiot first! Saved me 5 bucks.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Freakytah said:


> That, and for people like me that just briefly scanned the page and missed that it will be in the upcoming book. I was going to buy it, good thing I saw this post and realized I'm an idiot first! Saved me 5 bucks.


I would say if people have missed that its a part of the upcoming Shadows of treachery, and not to sound like an asshole as thats not my nature, its kinda their own fault.  BUT its good that you didnt miss it.


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## deepsix81 (Dec 24, 2011)

Am I then the only person who couldn't/wouldn't wait and picked up the e-book? Really enjoyable story, and the Sigismund storyline raises a lot of questions. Fun read


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

No spoilers  I really love Imperial Fists but I think I'll wait for the whole book instead of just one story out of it.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Just read it, an enjoyable read, not bad. Sigismund's plot especially was enthralling. The Battle of Phall itself dragged a bit though and didn't particually peak my interest, and I wasn't particually fond of the portrayal of Perturabo or the Iron Warriors.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Grrr I so want to get it but then I'll be wasting money when the Anthology comes out, what to do what to do.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Grrr I so want to get it but then I'll be wasting money when the Anthology comes out, what to do what to do.


It's only £3.50, live a little.


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## deepsix81 (Dec 24, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Just read it, an enjoyable read, not bad. Sigismund's plot especially was enthralling. The Battle of Phall itself dragged a bit though and didn't particually peak my interest, and I wasn't particually fond of the portrayal of Perturabo or the Iron Warriors.


I disagree on the Perturabo point. His primarch was radically different from every other primarch that we've seen to date, and that's why I loved it and want to know more about him and his legion. Without going into detail, I was disappointed in the Phall proceedings as well.


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## Lupe (Jan 3, 2011)

Perturabo actually comes of like he's been building up steam for the last century or so, and is close to meltdown. He's trying to maintain his composure, but he's failing miserably at it, because he's been undermining himself for all that time...

As it stands now, it's a fairly accurate and plausible portrayal, in my opinion...


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I read it, enjoyed it and look forward to the after effects. One thing though..



Do you think that Iron Warrior that Perturabo bashed in will turn up in future? Maybe turning against the Iron Warriors?


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## Lupe (Jan 3, 2011)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I read it, enjoyed it and look forward to the after effects. One thing though..
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think that Iron Warrior that Perturabo bashed in will turn up in future? Maybe turning against the Iron Warriors?




If you mean Berossus, then he's turned up in the past. In the Ultramarines omnibus - I believe in Dead Sky, Black sun (the "sequel" to Storm of Iron)... He's the Warsmith of a traitor warband based on Medrengard. He's also notable for leading the said warband while in a Dreadnought - a fact for which we now have a good explanation, after reading The Crimson Fist.

He gets killed by Honsou in the book, though...


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## deepsix81 (Dec 24, 2011)

Lupe said:


> Perturabo actually comes of like he's been building up steam for the last century or so, and is close to meltdown. He's trying to maintain his composure, but he's failing miserably at it, because he's been undermining himself for all that time...
> 
> As it stands now, it's a fairly accurate and plausible portrayal, in my opinion...


Fair enough. 




I was referring to the fear that he held over his legionnaires. This is the first and only time that I've heard of the captains reluctant to address their primarch for fear of disappointing him (and punishment of death).


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## Good Minton (Sep 1, 2010)

Good read, phall dragged on abit. I loved Perturabos personnel policy though.

Just one question....



Was Polux just being dramatic or did they translate somewhere other than Terra?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Good Minton said:


> Was Polux just being dramatic or did they translate somewhere other than Terra?


I took it as he was just being dramatic.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Good Minton said:


> Good read, phall dragged on abit. I loved Perturabos personnel policy though.
> 
> Just one question....
> 
> ...





Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I took it as he was just being dramatic.


No not being dramatic, rather...




Polux and his fleet have translated into Ultramar as Guilliman prepares for Imperium Secundus.



At least that's what I think.


LotN


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> Polux and his fleet have translated into Ultramar as Guilliman prepares for Imperium Secundus.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What makes you think that?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Something else I read in the Heresy recently makes me think that, but to say what it is would be immense spoilers.


LotN


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## Lord of Ruin (Jul 22, 2012)

I must say, ive just read this and i thought it was bloody brilliant! John French is becoming one to watch as both of his HH contributions have been excellent reads. I Really like how he shows us that the Primarch Rogal Dorn is a true soldier, to me he comes across more as a soldier primarch than any other. And Pertuabo was truely terrifying to behold, what a vicous, brutal, tempormental bastard he is, John really captured him for me. Others have said the the battle at Phall was abit long, i for one for it was done perfectly, the space battles was well described easy to follow and the boarding actions were close and brutal affairs, and most definatly captured the front cover of the novel well.

Anyone with any doubts as to reading this, dont hesitate its both insightful and action packed and works very well with the short story, 'The lightning tower' which is also included within the novel.

Dont hesitate buy it!


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## Apfeljunge (May 1, 2011)

So the question is:


Did Pollux arrive in Ultramar during the Imperium Secundus or did he arrive in the Sol System after the heresy?


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## Wydnej (Feb 19, 2010)

Must admit I thought Pollux was just being dramatic and stating the changes that have happened to Terra in their absence, a bristling bastion ready for the charge of Horus.

Altho I also take the point it could be Ultramar during the unofficial muster that seems to be occurring. If it is then that little sub plot gets more and more interesting to what must happen to Guilliman to stop him heading to Terra. Curioser and Curioser...

Boom.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Just read it, an enjoyable read, not bad. Sigismund's plot especially was enthralling. The Battle of Phall itself dragged a bit though and didn't particually peak my interest, and I wasn't particually fond of the portrayal of Perturabo or the Iron Warriors.




I agree. It was enjoyable, but the way the battle was portrayed wasn't done very well in my opinion. The Iron Warriors surprise the Imperial Fists and pin them down, and somehow the Imperial Fists were able to sacrifice ships from the main body to pick off Iron Warrior barges from their flanks as though the Iron Warriors were blind.

The only way I can really understand how this all came down is if the Iron Warriors were actually outnumbered by fleet numbers. Its possible that the Imperial Fist force had a considerably large force if they were using Terra's support. This is the only explanation to how a fleet would be able to regroup from such a devastating surprise attack and surround them. I guess the Iron Warriors could have been unlucky and rolled a lot of missfires from their cannons. Thats a fair analogy of what happened too. But I'm for that latter. 

If this is the case, than the Iron Warriors probably did their job in crippling Terra's defense fleet. Making Horus' fleet overwhelming powerful to the point in which the Walls of Terra were really the Imperium's only hope.

As to Perturabo's dissapointment, it was at the end of the story where Perturabo looks at the screen and it says the outcome of the battle to be a perfect anhilation of the Istavaan reinforcements. But Perturabo miscalculated.

Frenchie made the battle closer than it really was. It was a stalemate that basically turned into an anhilation. Ironically and probably because Dorn realized the true strength of the traitor force and thus realizing the need of retreating his remaining forces to the defense of Terra.


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## Marcoos (Sep 26, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> Something else I read in the Heresy recently makes me think that, but to say what it is would be immense spoilers.
> 
> 
> LotN


+1 to this. I think there are a lot of reinforcements being drawn to Ultramar. It's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. I can see a big onfrontation between Guilleman and at least one other Primarch about where the legions need to be.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

Marcoos said:


> +1 to this. I think there are a lot of reinforcements being drawn to Ultramar. It's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. I can see a big onfrontation between Guilleman and at least one other Primarch about where the legions need to be.



I think you have hit the nail on the head here!

One other point on this story (and I'm expecting counter battery fire on this) the main guy Pollux is described as being rather huge even by astartes standards, in one description he is looking down on Tyr even though Tyr is in termie armour, now I'm just throwing this out here, some people suggest that Dorn is lost not dead, could this guy Pollux be the remains that get recovered off the space hulk and not Dorns, it would be in keeping with G.Ws fondness for inuendo on such matters


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Nah Polux went on to form the Crimson Fists and died after being poisoned by Scythians.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Nah Polux went on to form the Crimson Fists and died after being poisoned by Scythians.



That I didn't know, well that's me educated for today, back in the box I go!


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

What bedaffled me was that it at one point looked like the Imperial Fists would win it all, then Dorns message arrives and he's like "Yeah screw this victory, let us lose a shit load of Imperial Fists while we flee!" Or am I wrong there?

I liked the story, the portrayal of the characters and also the enough amount of lenght.


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## Marcoos (Sep 26, 2010)

Pollux debates winning the battle vs what if his troops were needed at Terra because that was already under attack. That's the point of the story in a nutshell. It is demonstrating the Imperial Fist's absolute belief in doing their duty, and showing by contrast Sigismund's personal choice ahead of his duty. Given this, it's no surprise how Dorn responds to Sigismund.


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## jasonpittman (May 17, 2010)

One thing I was wondering, what is the significance if any of the Imperial Fist Navarra opening his eyes at the end. Does he play any other role in the Heresy


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I know the reason but I won't spoil it.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I know the reason but I won't spoil it.


P.m me I need to know, if I could inject the H.H I would!!!!!!!!!


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

Oldman78 said:


> P.m me I need to know, if I could inject the H.H I would!!!!!!!!!


Let me know too cheers


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

nate187 said:


> Let me know too cheers


In the spoilers



He reappears in Angel Exterminatus and is handed over to the Emperors Children by the Iron Warriors. Fabius then conducts numerous horrific experiments on him along with other captured Astartes. Puts all sorts of limbs and new appendages on him before removing them and trying some more, basically turns him into a guinea pig for whatever the fuck he can think of next. He's not very recognisable by the end.


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

thanks mate ;0)


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## Alhom (Aug 17, 2012)

Marcoos said:


> Pollux debates winning the battle vs what if his troops were needed at Terra because that was already under attack. That's the point of the story in a nutshell. It is demonstrating the Imperial Fist's absolute belief in doing their duty, and showing by contrast Sigismund's personal choice ahead of his duty. Given this, it's no surprise how Dorn responds to Sigismund.


Not agree, Perturabo says during the ambush : "It's Sigismund who commands this fleet and I know him, he'll attacks us with all of the Retribution fleet." (or kind of)

So, if he had been there, instead of Pollux, may be he'll be dead and with him, all the fleet.

The point of the "choice" of Sigismund is more shady. It is said, Sigismund has always followed orders from his father but when he met Keeler, she told him "your father will need you before the end" and this woman wasn't a mountebank.
Cause like I said, if he had followed Dorn's order, may be he'll be dead with 200k of Imperial Fists.


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## Marcoos (Sep 26, 2010)

Dorn had no idea the Retribution Fleet would be ambushed, nor by an enemy fleet commanded by Peturabo. You're using the benefit of your position as a reader, in hindsight, to say Sigismund made the right choice. Looking at it from Dorn's point of view, at the time of the event, he is a rigid believer in doing your duty and he would absolutely have wanted his right hand (most capable and most experienced) man leading a major element of his legion into an incredibly difficult situation where they may have had to chose to effectively declare war on other legions.

I may not agree with Dorn's behaviour to Sigismund, but I understand it given his nature. And the author was clearly opposing the two main characters in terms of the choices they made. Pollux gave up a situation where he probably would have defeated an enemy Primarch at the cost of many of his men, because he followed his orders and did his duty. Sigismund made a personal choice against orders and duty.


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## Alhom (Aug 17, 2012)

I don't say that the choice of Sigismund is THE good to do, just say that for the first time he hesitated. It is said too. And if he had led the fleet to the Phall system, may be he would have focused on the attack instead of the defense.

Me too, I understand why Dorn feels betrayed but to say "you're not my son anymore" th'at's suks.

And indeed, the Retribution fleet could have destroy Perturabo but at the cost of the entire fleet of the IF.

Either way, the worst mistake has been to send this fleet to Isvaan...


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