# =][= Ordos combined into single Codex



## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Was over at warseer to see if Stickmonkey had anything new to say and he did:
It seems the combining of the codexes is becomming a reality, this is something Im really looking forwards to.
As Im allready planning on using both WH/DH with inducted IG this seems good. However the "No Allies" thing has me a bit worried, should I buy the 2 Cadian battleforces as I had planned or wait to see if I can even use them at all?.
All in all Im really looking forwards to next year when we might have a releise date 



Stickmonkey said:


> So in discussion today a few new things came up. Treat as rumors, as this source does not have direct information.
> 
> Missions Book
> * New units for SM, Orks, Chaos/CSM, and IG re-confirmed. No other love.
> ...


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

I'm going to choose to not believe a word of it. I dread a combined Inquisition book


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Most of the Inquisition stuff sounds fairly likely. I can totally see them getting rid of Faith Points and combining the two books together. I'm not at all surprised to hear that Allies will be gone, or that all the Assassins are being rolled into one. Ignoring Invulnerable saves makes sense for the Knights. I'm curious how the Sisters will be given some punch without Faith to enhance them.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Concrete Hero said:


> I'm going to choose to not believe a word of it. I dread a combined Inquisition book


Oh do tell why 
What would be so different from what we have atm?

The only difference at the moment is the limit of 2 troop, 1 elite and 1 fast attack as allies.
If they combine then sisters would get access to LRCrusader and Dreads, that would be the only difference really. The rest you can allready get when allying.

DH on the other hand would get access to tons of new toys, fast attack (teleport GK doesnt count) units and new heavy support units not to mention more elites.

I see no reason what so ever not to combine them from a gaming point of view. From a business point of view it might not be the best way to maximise profit. 1 =][= , 1 GK and 1 Sob Codex could mean more profit but thats only if the armies themselves are popular.
Afaik WH/DH are some of the least played armies in the game just ahead of DEldar. So a combination might make it easier to sell the minis as a whole.
Since if you buy 1 codex you pretty much want to buy every model in the range (atleast Im that way, GOTTA CATCH THEM ALL!).


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> I'm curious how the Sisters will be given some punch without Faith to enhance them.


Well, he only said No Faith "POINTS".
To me it sounds like the points will be gone but the faiths still there.
Meaning as long as you have a faithful unit in a squad it can attempt to use an act of faith. This is the way I read it atleast, I think the current system is just irritating and I never seem to have enough FP to spend.

I would guess a limit though, like 1 attempt per squad per phase so you really have to think things through before you try.

The Faith system is such a huge part of being a SoB so I dont think they will remove the acts of faith, removing the points however seems like a really good idea.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

The idea that their is only one Imperial Assassin makes me think this is false. What does that mean to the death cult assassin? Each assassin also looks so different to. How come their is no talk about death watch. Surely we would have heard if they would be in it or not. Also the idea that Necrons is the last Codex before 6th edition. I think we shouldn't be talking about 6th edition right now and which codex are coming out before it does.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

the Imperial Assassin will be eitehr awesome or a total failure. I'd love to see them with a page of options and wargear, gearing them for the *exact* task you want for them.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> the Imperial Assassin will be eitehr awesome or a total failure. I'd love to see them with a page of options and wargear, gearing them for the *exact* task you want for them.


Normally I'm an optimist, but I can't say I'm confident that they'll work out so well. Single model units tend to fail pretty hard nowadays, what with them being worth a kill point.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Thats true. I just like the idea of a specifically equipted killing machine. If they can kill tough and/or scary stuff real quick, they might be worth it, despite being a Killpoint.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

They might have a special rule that makes him not a kill point.


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

> They might have a special rule that makes him not a kill point.


I dunno, I doubt that would happen.

And they better not remove faith, or they will pretty much be releasing a DH dex, with supporting sister. If they do this dex then they need both of the armies to be equally powerful, individual, and able to be used independently without fear of an underpowered army.

As for the assassin, I think its a sham, but I understand why they would do it, the book is going to be full enough as it is, and having 4 types of assassin isn't going to be worth the space. Be kinda cool if you could take 2-3 assassin's or something and be able to outfit each one differently, and like said before have a shwak load of choice. I can imagine them coming out with a plastic assassin box similar to the space marine commander, with oddles of bitz =D


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I can't imagine how could the Grey Knights put up with the psycho Sisters. Discipline vs. apeshit crazy zeal, as if the whole bunch would be made up of Commissars who just can't shut up and get things done. I raise an eyebrow from a fluff perspective, but putting them in the same codex makes sense otherwise.

I'll believe the rest if I see pictures.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Khorothis said:


> I can't imagine how could the Grey Knights put up with the psycho Sisters. Discipline vs. apeshit crazy zeal, as if the whole bunch would be made up of Commissars who just can't shut up and get things done. I raise an eyebrow from a fluff perspective, but putting them in the same codex makes sense otherwise.
> 
> I'll believe the rest if I see pictures.


Sisters of battle are not like that. Well maybe the Repentias are but the rest of them are not like that. They are well disciplined.


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

true, but they can be crazy zeal and whatnot, especially when poked at by a priest. =D


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

all sounds a bit wish listy and im still not convinced GW will combine two armies into one. Plus we have heard this all before and still havent seen a sniff of a new model,sprue or codex cover.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

On the DE rumour: I'd say the Necrons are the complete opposite (not really opposing, but oh well) of the DE. One is fast, extremely hard hitting in melee and equip with soggy toilet paper armour. The other can be described by a single 30 foot concrete word: survivable. Crons are also painfully slow.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> On the DE rumour: I'd say the Necrons are the complete opposite (not really opposing, but oh well) of the DE. One is fast, extremely hard hitting in melee and equip with soggy toilet paper armour. The other can be described by a single 30 foot concrete word: survivable. Crons are also painfully slow.


Since when are Necrons slow? Oh, since THQ made them slow. Necrons are one of the most mobile armies in 40k - easily as mobile as DE - so I don't see opposition in that aspect. Maybe they can be seen as opposites when looking at the fluff and the War in Heaven from all those millions of years ago.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

I2 = Slow.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Necrosis said:


> Sisters of battle are not like that. Well maybe the Repentias are but the rest of them are not like that. They are well disciplined.


I meant that their way of thinking is heavily influenced by religious bullshit, like their martyrdom-fetish. When it comes to doing battle, they might have high scores for morale, but their tactics are more like "how to get things done while you're screaming like the crazy nun you are", rather then "how to get things done with maximum efficiency". Ever heard of Sisters laying in ambush, hiding in cover and keeping their mouths shut? Nope. You might have seen it on the board but never read it in a book. 

Now think of the Grey Knights. The complete opposite. They're basically a chapter of Librarians if you think about it. They're so few that they have to keep themselves alive and die only if theres no helping it. Not to mention that thanks to their special training, they are even more disciplined than any Space Marine chapter, even compared to the Imperial Fists. Thats why the Grey Knights have a reputation for kicking ass without fail, because they know how to get things done and they have the adamantine balls to bitchslap anyone who says otherwise. 

Though its always good to have reliable cannon fodder. Which is bound to happen if their Codex are merged. Kinda like WoC in WHFB: the Marauders are there to keep attention away from the Warriors, the real power in the army.


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

If the inquisition have lots of Anti-invun tricks-then the chances are that Null Zne is most likely gonna be put to shame.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

I actually quite like the sound of Codex: Inquisition (Blasphemy!) but to me, if you get the current codex, you can ally with Witch Hunters (can't you...?) so, why not just have them in one codex.

Although the allies thing is a bit annoying as I was going to get a load of IG to ally with either my Chaos or GK


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

I haven't been over to warseer for a bit to check what is actually being said but this is a definate "not going to happen", while there is definately something brewing, "this just ain't it"


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I2 = Slow.


I2 is only slow in CC, and the only Necron units that would ever get into CC are all I4, I5 and I6.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I believe that when it talks about the enemy of the DE it may be referring to Slaanesh since the DE are supposed to be the last remnants of the hedonistic Eldar which were destroyed by the birth of Slaanesh.

Makes sense.


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## spidie2000 (Nov 21, 2008)

aaagh i just feel like I am in 40k limbo right now. I play Witch Hunters, Dark Eldar, and Blood Angels. I hear all 3 are getting new codex / models in rumors thread, but no hard evidence. I don't want to buy any new stuff until they release something new for me at this point not knowing what is changing in the future.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Fucking told the lot of you.

Lol.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

spidie2000 said:


> aaagh i just feel like I am in 40k limbo right now. I play Witch Hunters, Dark Eldar, and Blood Angels. I hear all 3 are getting new codex / models in rumors thread, but no hard evidence. I don't want to buy any new stuff until they release something new for me at this point not knowing what is changing in the future.


Im in the same boat. Both Dark Eldar and Blood Angels are favourites of mine and no hard evidence of a new codex, and in DE case no evidence of a new figure line.

This Inquisition codex sounds very good, I wouldn't play them but some GK terminators would be welcome in my collection.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Necrosis said:


> The idea that their is only one Imperial Assassin makes me think this is false. What does that mean to the death cult assassin? Each assassin also looks so different to...


This would mean reverting to 2nd ed Assassins and sounds really neat in my book. Back in those days an Assassin was better then a SM Commander in combat and had a full armoury access. If this turns out true then expect a dangerous model with high stats. This can be a huge win imo 

Right now Assassins are quite "meh". Deathcults die like flies and the Temple ones are to random. I welcome a development like this for sure!


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> Like most folk, I'll believe it when I see it, but Sisters having no faith points will be a bit crappy, if it happens. I play pure Sisters, and the faith is what makes them potent(imo). If this is true, GW had better have something damned impressive to replace Faith. Other than that, Im totally surprised that the Knights will be the first to be focused on!!!:laugh:


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> Likely last Codex before 6th Ed. (commentary:i.e. dont hold your breath)


I can tell you all that thats buggery. Not even Space Marines get another big release that that fast... Im betting that sixth Ed will come 2-3 years after the Fantasy 8th Ed..


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Khorothis said:


> I meant that their way of thinking is heavily influenced by religious bullshit, like their martyrdom-fetish. When it comes to doing battle, they might have high scores for morale, but their tactics are more like "how to get things done while you're screaming like the crazy nun you are", rather then "how to get things done with maximum efficiency". Ever heard of Sisters laying in ambush, hiding in cover and keeping their mouths shut? Nope. You might have seen it on the board but never read it in a book.


I knew what you meant to say and your still wrong. Sisters are very tactically. They analyze the situation and decided on the best course of action. In the book Faith and Fire a few sisters put their pride and honor aside to do some infiltration in an enemy stronghold. Just stop with the stereotype thinking.


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## Adeptus (Aug 12, 2009)

The SOB's were trained by the same people that train stormtroopers because of this if stormtroopers are trained to infiltrate theres nothing to say that they wont when the needs arise .


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Every little bit of Fluff I read on Sisters always envoled preaching and screaming their faith while recklessly shooting at whatever moves. They may put up with Infaltration but even their Dex dont support them in any role other than getting close and Burning everything that moves while screaming their Faith. I think they should be as much as a Storm Trooper with the Added 3+ save and some Faith abilities. They should be worth to take then.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> Every little bit of Fluff I read on Sisters always envoled preaching and screaming their faith while recklessly shooting at whatever moves. They may put up with Infaltration but even their Dex dont support them in any role other than getting close and Burning everything that moves while screaming their Faith. I think they should be as much as a Storm Trooper with the Added 3+ save and some Faith abilities. They should be worth to take then.


I assume all the fluff you read about them was from the enemy point of view? Have you read any fluff from their point of view? I assume not. Fluff are written from a certain race point of view. Try reading a book where the sisters are the main characters. It gives you a complete different outlook on them.


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## Gog (May 27, 2009)

I think people arnt thinking right on how a single assasin would work, it would most likely be,

Assasin Xpts

Each assasin must pic a type

Y assasin for Xpts
[wergear]

W assasin for Xpts
[wergear]

P assasin for Xpts
[wergear]

That would allow GW to have one entry but multipal assasins and give them blanket wargear they all can have.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

just been informed that both the witch hunter codex and the deamon hunter codexs have been removed from the trade catalogue for independent traders, this is normally what happens when a codex is going to be redone within 12 months.
so this rumour may have some truth about combining the two after all.


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## Usaal (Apr 9, 2008)

I think the Necron Immortal aspect will be something along the lines of you keep knocking them down but they keep getting back up again. So FNP or some such for all.
So perhaps not as good armor saves but hard to keep them down.


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

Gog said:


> I think people arnt thinking right on how a single assasin would work, it would most likely be,
> 
> Assasin Xpts
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure that was the old system that they employed? Well they did in the Daemonhunters book anyway


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## ThePublic (Apr 8, 2009)

Yes folks they will most likely combine the Nalleus and the Heretic but what of the Xenos..... what of the Xenos...?


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

There is almost no chance of there ever being a Xenos book. Why? Because they are not an army, just random Space Marines brought together for a limited time. Kroot will never get their own codex either.
Adeptus Mechanicus are a more coherent force and they don't have a codex, for example.


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## exsulis (Jul 17, 2008)

I could see the Faith Point system changing to something more akin to the Imperial Guard Order system.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I don't see why GW cannot make an ordo xenos book. The chapter militant would be the deathwatch and they could have different rounds effective on different targets. Then taking the idea from daemonhunters by using some sort of captured alien that is mind controlled to obey the wishes of a nearby inquisitor. The stormtroopers and inquisitors can be lifted from the other ordos codexes. Then maybe several squads (human or deathwatch) that are armed or have equipment ideal for taking down an alien race. For example a squad effective against eldar (good and bad) by being able to naturally nullify and psychic attacks or another squad effective against tyranids by dealing double damage to synapse creatures. This could work because maybe another rule states that only one such squad may be taken. This would force the player to think before taking such a squad.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

On another note I stated before that the main enemies of the DE is Slaanesh. Maybe the second wave of daemons and some exclusive slaaneshi stuff can be released at the ame time.


Actually this all sounds like wishful thinking.......


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

Stephen_Newman said:


> I don't see why GW cannot make an ordo xenos book. The chapter militant would be the deathwatch and they could have different rounds effective on different targets. Then taking the idea from daemonhunters by using some sort of captured alien that is mind controlled to obey the wishes of a nearby inquisitor. The stormtroopers and inquisitors can be lifted from the other ordos codexes. Then maybe several squads (human or deathwatch) that are armed or have equipment ideal for taking down an alien race. For example a squad effective against eldar (good and bad) by being able to naturally nullify and psychic attacks or another squad effective against tyranids by dealing double damage to synapse creatures. This could work because maybe another rule states that only one such squad may be taken. This would force the player to think before taking such a squad.


If you started making them effective against every alien race then they'd be able to tailor their force to pwn anyone they face. That's the main reason that they haven't got a book (I suspect).

Also, deathwatch units are supposed to act on their own rather than in armies.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Stephen_Newman said:


> I don't see why GW cannot make an ordo xenos book. The chapter militant would be the deathwatch and they could have different rounds effective on different targets. Then taking the idea from daemonhunters by using some sort of captured alien that is mind controlled to obey the wishes of a nearby inquisitor. The stormtroopers and inquisitors can be lifted from the other ordos codexes. Then maybe several squads (human or deathwatch) that are armed or have equipment ideal for taking down an alien race. For example a squad effective against eldar (good and bad) by being able to naturally nullify and psychic attacks or another squad effective against tyranids by dealing double damage to synapse creatures. This could work because maybe another rule states that only one such squad may be taken. This would force the player to think before taking such a squad.


You just explained exactly why GW won't be doing their codex. Each codex has to be distinct and stand on its own. Borrowing all the units from other armies does not match this criterion. Everything you mentioned above is pretty much what the Space Marines do anyway.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

darklove said:


> There is almost no chance of there ever being a Xenos book.


i'm pretty sure it'll eventually happen, numerous people have said "one day",
at the same time it may well be that most of us will be in nursing homes by then so it's almost irrelevant


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## Dynamike (Jul 13, 2009)

It's simple, I am totally looking forward any new codex of either Witch Hunters or DaemonHunters. Yes I would prefer if they were both seperate codex making them more separate/unique but still I would totally love to have the new codex come out even if it is unified.

For Witch Hunters, let's all hope the faith points remains as it makes the army really unique in it's own way. Except if it is to be replaced with an even better idea. I do believe it could exist! 

As for DaemonHunters which are truly the ones I am looking for to build my 2nd army, I hope for the best. What I would like is if they could have their own special powers that would distinguish them from the others but would still be good against anyone instead. Nothing stops those specific powers to have a greater or added effect on daemons and still keep the power useful against other armies so all powers could be used differently.

Yep... can't wait for the future and see the results with those two armies! ^_^


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Dynamike said:


> For Witch Hunters, let's all hope the faith points remains as it makes the army really unique in it's own way. Except if it is to be replaced with an even better idea. I do believe it could exist!


"I could see Acts of Faith becoming a bit like IG orders, with a Veteran Superior being able to 'issue' an Act to her squad and Seraphim or a Canoness maybe having a 12" range."


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Or just a Faithful unit may make one "Prayer" at the start of every turn.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Or just a Faithful unit may make one "Prayer" at the start of every turn.


That'd be nice, it'd fit with the army's religious theme. You'd have to pray for the prayer to work.


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

> It's simple, I am totally looking forward any new codex of either Witch Hunters or DaemonHunters. Yes I would prefer if they were both seperate codex making them more separate/unique but still I would totally love to have the new codex come out even if it is unified.


I agree, I couldnt care less if the two were combined, as long as it is good, and the sisters stand out as an individual. I just really want to see plastic models for this army.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Or just a Faithful unit may make one "Prayer" at the start of every turn.


Well, this is a bit limiting imo. As the system works now you can use different faiths in different phases. Like if you use Divine Guidense in the shooting phase it doesnt go over into the assault phase, you have to redo it in the assault phase.

Hmm, now when I wrote this I guess if you rolled for a faith for each turn you could offset not being able to use multiple ones each phase.

Its just a bit restrictive imo to only allow you one faith each turn, as it is right now you can use all but one in the same phase if you wanted to and were really lucky with dice. Sometimes you want both +2S and Inv save in the same phase or using Divine Guidense and Fearless on your 10girl squad that rolled a poor Ld test and is being escorted off the map.

I guess it could come down to a canoness being allowed to roll multiple faiths in the same phase kind of like how IG orders work, some can give more than one order per turn others only one.

The question is though, should it be turn based faiths or phase based?
They would have to come up with some new ones as well, otherwise people would just cast invuln and something else each turn to try and neglect instant death weapons and attacks.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Whatever becomes of the sisters faith system cannot occur in phases since this would eventually become too complicated for noobs to handle and some opponents who have never read the codex will need an explanation. The DE currently suffer this problem because they have too many complicated wargear options. 

This could sound crazy but why not spread the current faith system across certain ordo malleus units such as the GK but obviously not daemonhosts.

I also imagine if the faith system is akin to imperial guard orders then the powers will be altered to make them less effective such as an invulnerable save of 5+ rather than 3+ to make players think before they decide on their powers.


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## Cannoness Katelyn (Dec 30, 2009)

I hope this is all lies I personally don't think its a good idea their two completely different forces with no common grounds other than having inquisitors =/ leave them separate and update each book if needed but no merging >.<


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Nothing in common? The inquisition is an organization with two types of support. SOB, and GK. I can see a situation where one book covers both.


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## Cannoness Katelyn (Dec 30, 2009)

okay yes they work for the inquisition but at the end of the day to merge the books and maby loose what makes them both unique and the fact that I love the sisters are they are at the moment, The thought of them maybe loosing their faith powers and been able to take dreds makes me shiver the sisters don't need dreds! they do however need their faith!!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Cannoness Katelyn said:


> okay yes they work for the inquisition but at the end of the day to merge the books and maby loose what makes them both unique and the fact that I love the sisters are they are at the moment, The thought of them maybe loosing their faith powers and been able to take dreds makes me shiver the sisters don't need dreds! they do however need their faith!!


Having the ability to take Dreadnoughts and being forced to take Dreadnoughts are two very different things. Assuming they occupy the same FOC slot, a player interested only in Battle Sister units could easily opt to take, say, Exorcists instead of Grey Knight Dreadnoughts.

As for people worried about the merging of the two Inquisition books, I'd have to say that it's time to just deal with it. I know it sucks and I know I'd be annoyed if my army (Blood Angels) was merged with another army like say the Dark Angels into a single book, but we need to be realistic. It makes sense from a business perspective to take two relatively poorly selling armies that share many common elements and merge them into one (hopefully better selling) faction. This doesn't make it suck any less, but that's life. So perhaps we can just accept it and move on.

As for Acts of Faith and how they'll turn out, only time will tell. I personally would welcome the idea of both Grey Knights and Battle Sisters sharing an Imperial Guard Orders like system where instead of keeping track of a set number of points during the game, certain units (say, Grey Knight Terminators or Battle Sister Celestians) could urge on fellow units to even greater acts of courage and faith by granting them abilities like certain Universal Special Rules and other more unique stuff.

One thing is for sure, though. Change is a comin' and no amount of grumbling is going to stop it.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Having the ability to take Dreadnoughts and being forced to take Dreadnoughts are two very different things.
> 
> One thing is for sure, though. Change is a comin' and no amount of grumbling is going to stop it.


I see no reason why giving sob access to dreds would be a bad thing, god knows sob needs a anti armor vehicle with a little bit more punch.

Make the exorcist missile S9 or S10 would help allot but that might make it OP.

As it stands however sisters have to get withing 6" to be able to penetrate AV14 atm which is rather poor compared to most armies.

Why do I have to induct IG to be able to get S9 weapons...
Grumble grumble grumle....


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

MadCowCrazy said:


> ...god knows sob needs a anti armor vehicle with a little bit more punch......


Its fluffy. Its the way its supposed to be. Just like for Grey Knights. Both those armies are out there to hunt Daemons/Chaos worshippers/Heretics, aka foot soldiers and the odd MC. Not tanks of greater amount:no:

Its just like complaining that Tau is bad in CC. Its the way its supposed to be...


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Also, they like to be close-up to see the Heretics burn, they must share the same opinion for vehicles.

"MELT THE HERETIC TANK"


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm just happy they are getting some love at last! The fact they are merging into one book does not concern me - it will probably be a big book!


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