# Vision of Heresy!



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Attention Fluff Mongers, aspiring writers and anyone else with a creative mind or vivid imagination! 


The team at Heresy have decided that it is time for a revamp of Heresy's own fandex. We are calling on the participation of Heresy members to give their input on creating unique units as well as some interesting Background, including History and descriptions of our own army. 

Down the track we will introduce options for rule creations, custom scenarios and competitions to expand on our creation. 

But before any of this, Heresy must decide on the nature of their force. Will we be the loyal servants of the Imperium, or will we serve the Dark Gods of Chaos? Or will we follow another path altogether?


EDIT: Also, a vote for Chaos will not lead to Undivided Worship. I have no intent of repeating the Dark Talons.


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

My vote is for a Renegade Guard force. That way, all the work done on the Dark Talons still maintains its integrity and we can forge forward with a completely new formation.

And... Heretics, mate! This _is_ Heresy Online, loyalists can suck it!


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

Boc said:


> My vote is for a Renegade Guard force. That way, all the work done on the Dark Talons still maintains its integrity and we can forge forward with a completely new formation.
> 
> And... Heretics, mate! This _is_ Heresy Online, loyalists can suck it!


most definatly for the dark gods and cast down the false emperor


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

And clearly Doelago can't vote since we already know he's not right in the head with his "For the Emperor" mumbo jumbo... :laugh:


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

My vote is also for a renegade Traitor Guard host -- with maybe some links to the Dark Talons.

My vote for a name is the 'Wretched Host' ... yea, I know, but its still a cool name. I've got some idea for some very unique Traitor Mechanicus units.


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## Durant (Aug 24, 2011)

Dark Gods all the way :laugh:

They have the best times...


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## Red Corsairs (Jun 8, 2008)

As the others have voted, the Dark Gods! Traitor Guard is good by me too.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

To clear one thing up guys, we will include Guard and Astartes elements no matter which way we go with this. 

So don't view that as a limiting factor. 

Also, the Dark Talons will not be forgotten. But the feel is that that project is all but finished, so it is time to write a new "edition" of Heresy's Chosen. :wink:


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## KorMegron (Nov 14, 2011)

Hmm...
Yea. Chaos all the way.

I could do some scribbling I suppose.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

KorMegron said:


> Hmm...
> Yea. Chaos all the way.
> 
> I could do some scribbling I suppose.


Sweet. :victory:


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Chaos, do you hear the voices too?


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

Death to the False Emperor :grin:


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Yay another chaos force. Will we just call it World Eaters and be done heh.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I say we forge our own destiny!

We are no pawns of lawless Gods but nor do we support a corrupt and inefficient beaurcratic system.

Plus there is more ideas for fun and well ideas.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Stephen_Newman said:


> Plus there is more ideas for fun and well ideas.


In the Grim Dark Future of the 41st Millennium there is no fun, only Khrone Themed Chaos Space Marines.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Aramoro said:


> In the Grim Dark Future of the 41st Millennium there is no fun, only Khrone Themed Chaos Space Marines.



Surely Slaanesh armies count as fun, just not always pleasent.


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

humakt said:


> Surely Slaanesh armies count as fun, just not always pleasent.


Depends on your definition of the word "pleasant," eh?

Awwww yeahhh


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## Sem'ael Elear (Nov 6, 2011)

BLOOD FOR THE HELL OF IT (see what I did there, who needs gods? ;D)


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

Definitely service to the Dark Gods. There is already enough loyalist shit out there. I would be onboard for jotting down a few things.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Dark Gods all the way!

And count me in for some scribble-age should it be required...


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

My gut instinct would be forging your own destiny, both loyalist and chaos are so restrictive, in forging own destinies I think there are more options out there, and depending on where you take it they could always turn to chaos in the end if they are struggling too much. 

I am happy to help in any way I can, however my writing skills are sub par at best, so only contact me if you really have to because I am pretty bad at the whole thing. But I am just here if you need me.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

cegorach said:


> My gut instinct would be forging your own destiny, both loyalist and chaos are so restrictive, in forging own destinies I think there are more options out there, and depending on where you take it they could always turn to chaos in the end if they are struggling too much.


Chaos will always win this kind of poll is the problem, so you marginalise the Xenos and Loyalist fans. With all the different voices it'll end up being Chaos Undivided, to save the fact they would only have archaic technology and none of the cool new Imperium stuff it will be a recently fallen chapter, so all the new Imperium toys and all the cool Chaos stuff opening up the options that you wanted from forging your own path. You'll have a massive swirling pot of ideas which someone will need to try and coalesce into a coherent list. This inevitably means that a lot of people will get no input at all into it and they'll all lose interest. You'll end up with 2 or 3 motivated people trying to finish it in the face apathy, i.e Dark Talons. That's just a guess though, this one will go much better I'm sure.


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

I voted for loyalist, but then I remembered that this is Heresy Online. Chaos is probably the way to go. I say we go for some really fanatical chaos worshipers, max out out Heresy quota as it were.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

I am inclined to Forging Our Own Destiny! as any deviation from the Creed &c. is Heresy, but devotion to the Ruinous Powers can be equally rigid.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

We could be an extensive Rogue Trader warband or mercenaries etc etc. No gods/emperors/whatever to tell us what to do!


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

I'm on board for forging our own destiny. A heretic has not necessarily sworn allegiance to the Chaos Gods. They have chosen not to follow the blind faith in the Emperor. Being heretical we can forge out on our own, possibly starting in some quiet corner of the galaxy and expanding. Perhaps the reason we have been branded heretic by the Imperium would be that we embrace Xenos technology and/or cultures. If this be the case we could be an amalgam of different races. We could have lost and forgotten Guardsmen, disillusioned Astartes(there is a fluff basis for these), mercenaries from Ork and other armies and even outcasts from various Eldar sources. As we are starting with fluff, I'm sure we can devise what would draw all these factions together. Even a deposed Necron Phaeron could be seeking refuge, bidding his time to retaliate. We should not limit ourselves with the restricting nature of loyalists, nor chaos forces. As heretics we are innovative and strive for change!


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

The Empty Gods whisper to me, promising great things if I serve Heresy...

My talents are at your disposal.


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## Kastle (Feb 28, 2010)

There is only one god, and he is death and we are the masters of him...Forge our own path and kill any who get in our way.


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## SonofMalice (Feb 5, 2012)

I stand ready to assist in whatever way is required. I vote for Chaos for even if we think we forge our own purpose do we not feed their power? Does not the blood of our foes empower Khorne? Does not our pursuit of luxury or perfection honor Slaanesh? Do we not fear death and so draw the gaze of father Nurgle? And even if these were false how could avoid being caught in the web of Tzeentch? My own personal predilections lead me to the Outcast God of course....


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## Lord Azune (Nov 12, 2011)

If there's still time to vote, I vote for Tzeentch style Guard.


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## CPT Killjoy (Feb 15, 2012)

Chaos all the way. I vote "Shades of Heresy"


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## TheLaughingMan (Jan 30, 2012)

I personally voted for the Heritics, (I think we should be called "The Heritics") to serve the darks gods. It should be in a similar way to the world of Warhammer Fantasy where its not just Daemons and Chaos Space Marines but everyone can feel the touch of chaos much like Chaos Dwarves in Fantasy. So Imagine Chaos Tau, Orks or even possessed Dark Eldar being mutated into daemons of Slaneesh. Might be a new breed of Hell Spawn made form a tyranid biomass? The lists are endless but I definately up for a renegade Guard and some other races with a touch of Chaos to them.

I just think that'll be freaking awesome!


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Keep in mind i have no desire to simply repeat the Dark Talons. 

The name of the forum need not dictate the nature of the army we design.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

Voted to forge our own destiny. 

Haven't done much in the way of fan codices, but I'm willing to write up things (assigned to me or otherwise).


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## LazyG (Sep 15, 2008)

A side note, I've seen similar projects flounder on forums as they get fragmented across dozens of threads etc etc. One option that I;ve seen work is to run a wiki instead. They are not so hard to set up and it has the everyone-edit thing going for it, but you have version control so you can revert to earlier versions. You can also make it invite only without too much difficulty. It might be a better way to set up a fandex than what seems to have happened last time. 

If anyone has wiki related questions they can PM me, I have set up a bunch.


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## Lord Azune (Nov 12, 2011)

Laughing, Khornite Dark Eldar? ;-)


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## TechPr1est (Nov 6, 2011)

heresy online or loyalist scum online.............................. hmmm

admit it choas is just awesome


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

I second the wiki initiative. If we're leaving it open to name defying ideas, I'll let my original vote for Loyalists stand. That seems to be a losing proposition at this point, though.


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## MidnightKid333 (Feb 2, 2011)

The emperor is overrated.

Also, it would be blasphemy to call ourseves "the heretics (of heresy-online)", but be against the gods of chaos and for the emperor, so being for the emperor would otherwise make no sense.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I think the point is it doesn't need to be called the Heritics. 

At this stage it's hard to see this becoming anything other than Dark Talons mark II. Chaos check, Undivided Check. I'm fairly sure we will even seen some of the Dark Talon units repurposed. Unless someone takes some strong editorial control and makes some unilateral decisions to make it different.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> At this stage it's hard to see this becoming anything other than Dark Talons mark II. Chaos check, Undivided Check. I'm fairly sure we will even seen some of the Dark Talon units repurposed. Unless someone takes some strong editorial control and makes some unilateral decisions to make it different.


I am sure Serpion will be keeping a firm hand on this, but there will also be plenty of need for passionate members in all areas to make this the exceptional work it has the potential to be, so it is good to see you seeking to make it both unique and vibrant.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> I am sure Serpion will be keeping a firm hand on this, but there will also be plenty of need for passionate members in all areas to make this the exceptional work it has the potential to be, so it is good to see you seeking to make it both unique and vibrant.


I'm a big fan of home brew rules and fandexs so I do want this to be something unique and fun. I'm just noting that if you go down the Democratic voting route and create a codex by committee you will get something very close to the Dark Talons.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> I'm a big fan of home brew rules and fandexs so I do want this to be something unique and fun. I'm just noting that if you go down the Democratic voting route and create a codex by committee you will get something very close to the Dark Talons.


I did not intend my comment to to come across as criticism, so my bad.

I meant that Serpion was looking to make it special and there would be plenty of opportunity for people, such as yourself, who want to avoid it being generic or derivative to pitch in.


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## HonorableMan (Apr 15, 2012)

I vote chaos.
anything but Loyalist.
just so much more possibility with chaos or renegades. 
yeah.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

To fuck with Chaos and to fuck with the Emperor; their both boring as hell. I say we choose the rabbit hole and see where it leads. Option C it is.


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## TheLaughingMan (Jan 30, 2012)

Aramoro said:


> I think the point is it doesn't need to be called the Heritics.
> 
> At this stage it's hard to see this becoming anything other than Dark Talons mark II. Chaos check, Undivided Check. I'm fairly sure we will even seen some of the Dark Talon units repurposed. Unless someone takes some strong editorial control and makes some unilateral decisions to make it different.


Why can't it be called "The Heritics?" I think that's a great name if the voters wote for "follow the dark gods."

Im sorry if I've missed out on this but what is the Dark Talons? Everyone has been talking about them, and from what I can gather many people on this thread don't want this turning into another version of the Dark Talons.

Although I do like the Idea of someone creating a Wiki for everyone to have their input and quite possibly making something extremely awesome!

Please post in standard font. Thank you. 

-Serpa


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## kharn_the_blood_god (Aug 8, 2011)

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODS :biggrin:

by the way if you need somebody to wright some fuff for a character then just contact me. :grin:


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

TheLaughingMan said:


> Why can't it be called "The Heritics?" I think that's a great name if the voters wote for "follow the dark gods."


It absolutely can be, but you shouldn't choose which path to follow based on it being called 'The Heretics' because it doesn't have a name yet.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> I think the point is it doesn't need to be called the Heritics.
> 
> At this stage it's hard to see this becoming anything other than Dark Talons mark II. Chaos check, Undivided Check. I'm fairly sure we will even seen some of the Dark Talon units repurposed. Unless someone takes some strong editorial control and makes some unilateral decisions to make it different.


I intend to. Rest assured, this ship will be run much tighter this time around. :grin: 



TheLaughingMan said:


> Why can't it be called "The Heritics?" I think that's a great name if the voters wote for "follow the dark gods."
> 
> Im sorry if I've missed out on this but what is the Dark Talons? Everyone has been talking about them, and from what I can gather many people on this thread don't want this turning into another version of the Dark Talons.
> 
> Although I do like the Idea of someone creating a Wiki for everyone to have their input and quite possibly making something extremely awesome!


The Dark Talons are the previous incarnation of this project. It was a Chaos based Legion written by Heresy members in the forum's earlier years. For the most part, it was a disorganized mess but unltimately managed to reach a level of completion. 

The concern seems to be that by allowing the options of Chaos, we will simply repeat what was already done. 

False fears of course, as I have taken note of what went wrong there and have no intention of letting history repeat itself.


I will also take this oppurtunity to notify all members that the poll does not necessarily represent the end result.


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## Pride365 (Apr 17, 2012)

Sounds like a fun project! I say we forge our own destiny! I know I haven't been on here long but if you really need help I will I am pretty good with back story!


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

When will the final decision be made on the faction for this project? Also, when will we start discussing the fluff for these guys? I'm interested in writing some, but I don't want to jump the gun and write fluff that doesn't fit with the direction this ultimately goes in. Same general question for crunch as well, I suppose.


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## jonileth (Feb 1, 2012)

I am very much for doing our own thing. If this project is to be something based on our own fluff and our own love of 40K, I say we make it original. We do what we think should be done in our own fashion. Granted, I'd love to work on this project regardless of which way it turns, because I think it would be awesome to work on as a community.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Pride365 said:


> Sounds like a fun project! I say we forge our own destiny! I know I haven't been on here long but if you really need help I will I am pretty good with back story!


Everyone will have a chance for input, don't worry about that.  



Col. Schafer said:


> When will the final decision be made on the faction for this project? Also, when will we start discussing the fluff for these guys? I'm interested in writing some, but I don't want to jump the gun and write fluff that doesn't fit with the direction this ultimately goes in. Same general question for crunch as well, I suppose.


I gave the poll three weeks, so once that is closed a final call will be made. I advise not writing anything yet, as we still have no idea what we're writing about.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Sure I can come up with ideas for stories.

If it's chaos, combining both Guard, Renegade Guard, Lost and the Damned, and potentially even Daemons would be a fair decent idea - as well as including the significant members of the site, like the Moderators as "special characters" etc.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

I like it, but I'm on for the independent factions. No loyalists, no chaos. I'm in. Fringe factions are something I enjoy. I like Archon Dan's posts that is a combination of multiple races and such. Hell, I'm also down for doing something that deals with the people who aren't told about in the stories and are generally forgotten about by all major factions. Brown Coats? Possibly.

Also, I'm down for some fluff writing as well.


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

Vaz said:


> Sure I can come up with ideas for stories.
> 
> If it's chaos, combining both Guard, Renegade Guard, Lost and the Damned, and potentially even Daemons would be a fair decent idea - as well as including the significant members of the site, like the Moderators as "special characters" etc.


Oh that is a fantastic idea! You thought Space Marines were scary before? I would like to see any Space Marine go against the astartes form of Serpion5 or CotE. Or maybe even the reclusive Venerable Dreadnough Jezlad. 

Especially in a world where "knowledge is power".


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

cegorach said:


> ... I would like to see any Space Marine go against the astartes form of Serpion5 or CotE. Or maybe even the reclusive Venerable Dreadnough Jezlad. ...


Is Stella still around? I would love to see him give a squad "Favored Enemy: Space Marines" or even "Favored Enemy: GW" :laugh:


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Mercenary war-band would be my favorite fandex, it opens up so many possibilities for fluff, modelling and unique units and armies


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Every step of the way will open up new options. Our next step will be to do with the nature of our calling.

Those voting Chaos, keep in mind that Undivided *WILL NOT* be an option. As I said, I have no intention of repeating the Dark Talons. :wink:


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## Thebluemage2 (Feb 16, 2012)

Sweet! No Undivided? Nurgle's might can finaly shine!{or maybe I am going for the God of Change, I can never tell.}


My fluff writing skills are yours, can we get Chaos-tainted Xenos as well? {Cough cough Kroot cough cough}


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## VulkansNodosaurus (Dec 3, 2010)

I voted for the independent option. I think a Chaos project could be awesome if it was something original, but there's a risk of it devolving into a "Marauding Mass of Cultists and Space Marines" that may have an interesting origin, but isn't by itself particularly notable. I'm not saying that will happen, but it seems there's a higher probability of something truly unique emerging from the third option.

And I'd be glad to contribute background, of course!


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## Pride365 (Apr 17, 2012)

I agree with the idea that we can go with something truly different if we go our own way and you don't want this to become the Dark Talons again a really good way to do this is to not fallow Chaos again.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

VulkansNodosaurus said:


> I voted for the independent option. I think a Chaos project could be awesome if it was something original, but there's a risk of it devolving into a "Marauding Mass of Cultists and Space Marines" that may have an interesting origin, but isn't by itself particularly notable. I'm not saying that will happen, but it seems there's a higher probability of something truly unique emerging from the third option.
> 
> And I'd be glad to contribute background, of course!


Agreed.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

curve ball - eldar craftworld, tau sept, Deldar/corsair raider force or even rogue traders


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

An Eldar Craftworld would be really cool but it would only end up getting destroyed by a single Marine armed with nothing but a bunch of grapes as an illustration of power. It would be awesome though as you get to make up your own Aspect Warriors and even Phoenix Lords.


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## anedcav (Nov 13, 2011)

i chose independent but if chaos is done it would be nice to see malal return to destroy its chaos brothers


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## Pride365 (Apr 17, 2012)

Aramoro said:


> An Eldar Craftworld would be really cool but it would only end up getting destroyed by a single Marine armed with nothing but a bunch of grapes as an illustration of power. It would be awesome though as you get to make up your own Aspect Warriors and even Phoenix Lords.


Eldar would be great!! and we could make them so one SM couldn't kill them I mean they have the most advanced tech in 40k! Just b/c GW messes them up doesn't mean we would have 2!


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

I could certainly get behind the Eldar. If we wanted to make special characters for the mods, it would be a good way to go, from what little I know about the Eldar. While we're on the topic of Xenos, though, I have to make a left field suggestion. 

Squats? :biggrin: 

...although now that it's been suggested, I think doing a Malal codex would be fantastic! :laugh: Too many good options! Bah, never too many good things, what am I saying?


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Seeing as we're clearly not going to be Loyalists, would it be possible for those people who voted that to re-vote among the two remaining options? Just so they have a say.

Oh and for the record I voted "other", so I'm not concerned for myself


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

FORGE OUR OWN DESTINY  I think Eldar would be awesome, loyalist would be boring (I right fluff for that on my own, dont need this to do that), chaos would be interesting... but I honestly hate chaos. Call me a fanatic, but I get really involved with my army, which is why Im Blood Angels. I would be glad to help write when I have time, though it might not be the best quality.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

schafer! long time no see


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

Col. Schafer said:


> I could certainly get behind the Eldar. If we wanted to make special characters for the mods, it would be a good way to go, from what little I know about the Eldar. While we're on the topic of Xenos, though, I have to make a left field suggestion.
> 
> Squats? :biggrin:
> 
> ...although now that it's been suggested, I think doing a Malal codex would be fantastic! :laugh: Too many good options! Bah, never too many good things, what am I saying?


Firstly, a Malal (lolMalice) codex would be amazing. An anti-chaos Chaos force? Brilliant 

Secondly, we couldn't do Squats. A xenos force of bearded aliens who ride trikes and are called "The Compact" though? Yeah, we could swing that I reckon :victory:

Finally, somebody mentioned DE? I figure a Heresy based Kabal with affiliated Wych Cult and Coven would be pretty appropriate, and also a load of fun... Oooh the options :biggrin:


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

Ehh. Dark Eldar work about as well as Eldar, and as I have both... go for it


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

Vaz said:


> schafer! long time no see


It's good to be back!  



Grokfog said:


> Firstly, a Malal (lolMalice) codex would be amazing. An anti-chaos Chaos force? Brilliant


My thoughts exactly! It would give the project a really clear identity (not to mention one that's both badass and hilarious) while leaving us lots of room to stretch our legs. 



Grokfog said:


> Secondly, we couldn't do Squats. A xenos force of bearded aliens who ride trikes and are called "The Compact" though? Yeah, we could swing that I reckon :victory:


Quoted for awesome. :laugh: 



Grokfog said:


> Finally, somebody mentioned DE? I figure a Heresy based Kabal with affiliated Wych Cult and Coven would be pretty appropriate, and also a load of fun... Oooh the options :biggrin:


Yet another great idea. Again, this would leave us with multiple areas to flesh out while giving the project a strong sense of direction.


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## VulkansNodosaurus (Dec 3, 2010)

Malal/ice would be awesome! Or any minor Chaos God- we could even make up our own (though agreeing on that would be difficult).

Eldar- what about Exodites? For Dark Eldar, maybe a Commorite sub-realm that's powerful enough and weird enough to have developed its own traditions.

There's also the option of a new alien race- one of those mentioned a couple times in the background, like the Hrud, Q'orl, or Thyrrus, or a Heresy invention.


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## Garion (Mar 17, 2012)

I will probably get shot to pieces here. lol

But I think it's about time Skaven entered the 40k universe. They have the gods, they have the technology, they have the warpstone. There is already existing fluff relating to mechavermin etc... It would be great  and we could have some truely bizzare and unqiue Skaven mechs and mutations.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

You're still aware that your options are listed in the poll right? Your best bet for including unique factors like that is to choose the third option.


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## Garion (Mar 17, 2012)

yeah I sadly, already voted for 2 before I thought of it lol, but if possible change a vote to 3 for me. I already have loads of good ideas for Heavy and Elites. Oh and one HQ


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Ok. Given the new information regarding the Chaos path. Has anybody voted who would like to change their minds? 

If this is the case with enough people I will override the poll and we'll go with the third option.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Having seen some of the great arguments put forward in favour of the third option I'd change my vote from Chaos to Forge Our Own Destiny.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Yeah, I'll change my Loyalist vote to 3.

Although I'm a fan of Loyalist (Really want to do a Naval Support wing), I'd be interested in a Xeno Force - Tau or Craftworld Eldar in particular. Anything with Flyers, really.

Just started trying to get my pilots license (first lesson tomorrow, squee), and I've been reading a ton of novels and memoirs about pilots, and as well as playing Elysians, any sort of Grav Tank/Flyer action is fine for me.

Chaos is, well, unfortunately, *just another daemon*, or *just another Legion warband* or *just another traitor imperial* whereas the Craftworld is fairly unique, while the Imperial Forces can be a bit more than simply overwhelmed by *oh everything slightly different about them can be explained down to being chaos*.

THink about how much Chaos Guard is talked about - they're either renegade militia (a la Vraks). Actual chaos regiments are rarely talked about - Volscani Cataphracts have a very minor mention, while the Blood Pact are the Foreign Legion of 40K in Abnett's *Sharpe in Space*.

Yet, compare that to the Individuality of the Guard regiments - the Bluebloods, Cadians, Elysians, Valhallans, Catachans, Tanith, DKK, Harakon, Terrax, Savlar, Steel Legion, Iron Guard, Vostroyans, Tallarn, and Phantine, each one is allowed more individuality.


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

I'd change my vote from Loyalists to option three. (I already said I'd change it to chaos, but It's still being counted as Loyalist in the poll I think)


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## LazyG (Sep 15, 2008)

I'd change from chaos to option 3 - though the renegade chaos god would also be fun.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

I am willing to change my vote from Chaos to Forge our Own Destiny.

However, I think a ad-hoc force would be far better. They don't even have to necessarily all be against Chaos and the Imperium -- some could be renegade Imperials, others devout but exiled followers of the gods. We could have Eldar or Tau (renegades of their Sept or something ...). The only thing we'd be missing is the Tyranids. And who is to say that our grand warlord or something wouldn't have been able to mind control a Carnifex for his Pit of Doom? Lol.

We shouldn't restrict ourselves to one race or organisation but should incorporate all the left overs of the Universe and forge them into something truly terrible. We are heretics -- of all creation.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

That was my ever so subtle hint. If we forge our own destiny, we can essentially do what we want within reason.  

But I didn't want to create such a hodgepodge force if the bulk of the community felt otherwise. Hence the poll.


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

BlackGuard said:


> I am willing to change my vote from Chaos to Forge our Own Destiny.
> 
> However, I think a ad-hoc force would be far better. They don't even have to necessarily all be against Chaos and the Imperium -- some could be renegade Imperials, others devout but exiled followers of the gods. We could have Eldar or Tau (renegades of their Sept or something ...). The only thing we'd be missing is the Tyranids. And who is to say that our grand warlord or something wouldn't have been able to mind control a Carnifex for his Pit of Doom? Lol.
> 
> We shouldn't restrict ourselves to one race or organisation but should incorporate all the left overs of the Universe and forge them into something truly terrible. We are heretics -- of all creation.


That sounds really fun when you put it like that, but it runs serious risks of devolving. With so many different interests represented in the codex, everyone will be pulling the project in a different direction. It could easily end up being a misshapen amalgam of unrelated stuff that doesn't make any sense in context and was only added because someone liked the sound of it and there was no reason not to. 

There's nothing inherently _wrong_ with a silly hodgepodge of random cool stuff, but it will lack the sense of coherency that a real Codex has. 

Of course, Serpion could keep things in perspective and reign us all in when we go too nuts, as we've already established will be the case. With a Codex like that, though, it will mean a lot more work for him and less time to focus on refining the details. 

I think that whatever we do, we need to have a well established motivation for out group and limit ourselves to, at most, a handful of races/factions for source material. 

Of course, if this is just me and everyone else wants to go with a hodge-podge, I'll shut up. Part of this is me playing devils advocate, I am a fan of "awesome because awesome" I just thought someone should pipe up on this. I can certainly amuse myself with come Cain-esque writing if we go for something like that.


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> Having seen some of the great arguments put forward in favour of the third option I'd change my vote from Chaos to Forge Our Own Destiny.


Seconded 

It really does seem like the most interesting option now that I've put some thought into it and seen some great ideas for it


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Okay, in light of new information, the poll is officially overturned. We are using option number 3.  

The first of the new Vision threads will be going up shortly.


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## LazyG (Sep 15, 2008)

Just a question, did you consider non thread based structures like the wikis I mentioned earlier. Just as I had the impression looking back some of the probs with the dark talons was fragmentation across threads. Some sort of CMS/wiki might get round that. At least it could be a common place to move content once it has been created in threads.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

The new project will be organized differently to the old. Once we have a substantial amount of information here we can consider options like these.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

I'd like to throw in a vote for a rogue Mechanicus sect with whatever faction that is chosen for Heresy. They don't have to worship Chaos, but be counted as heretics by the Cult Mechanicus anyways. Maybe they want to openly study xenos tech from every race and combine the knowledge with what the Imperium has. Whether or not they worship the Machine God is irrelevant, and they don't even need to hate the Imperium. Perhaps they just think things are progressing too slow, or that the Cult Mechanicus' dogmatic views of technology are far too restricting.

Just some thoughts.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

This sounds mucho coolo. Have domestic stuff to do in the next week or two, which means some other poor bugger gets to do the hard part in getting stuff started; then I can run my clodhopping iBoots all over it, pretending I know what I'm on about. Ahhh, sweet!

GFP


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## serpentis666 (May 2, 2012)

first of all DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR AND THE CORRUPTION OF THIS WORLD secondly malal/malice ftw thirdly why not expand on the sons of malice backround story and units?


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

How about something slightly original? A traitor guard unit that captures inquisitors and does things like turn's them into penitant engines? Or sisters of battle into chaos flagellants?

Chaos Inquisition!


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