# What kind of leman?



## pylco (Jun 2, 2008)

Hello fellow imperial commanders! I would your opinion on something... I have 2 leman russ wich are, by far the best units in my army! I shoot the crap out of my chaos and eldar friends :laugh:. So, I want a third option for the heavy support slot.Until now, I was in to the vanquisher ( good for tanks,vehicles, and characters with high toughness). My other thought was a third leman ( I like the large blast) , but now I'm thinking about the exterminator ( heavy 4, twin linked ) for taking down troops. And a final question, is the squadron (lemans) of any use?
What's your thoughts fellow commanders????


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Vanquisher w/ Lascannon Hull and Pask is an excellent tank hunter, it just destroys things.

If you want AI go for the Eradicator over the Exterminator, it's just way better (and the Hydra is a cheap way to get that kind of Autocannon fire).

As for Squadrons, they are a necessary evil at high points level, but I wouldn't use them at lower points levels, just leave your Lemans separate until you run outta slots (and make sure you put the same type of tank together when you do squad up).


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## Ascendant (Dec 11, 2008)

I don't play IG, but I play against them, and I fear and hate demolishers in equal measure. Seeing my Warboss get instant killed? Not cool.

If that's not an option, I would go vanquisher I guess.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I think the basic leman russ gives you the best versatility and the best amount of killing power for the points you pay. Plasma cannon sponsons add to that a great deal.

I've never been a fan of the autocannon version. It simply is not better against troops than a battlecannon. There are extremely narrow categories of target where it performs best, such as against a dark eldar Talos. When you see a squad of plague marines fall out of their rhino you don't want your tank to have an autocannon on it, you want a battlecannon.

I don't rate the vanquisher really. For its cost you could have about 4 or 5 lascannons on other platforms, like vendettas for example, which would be twin-linked. The vanquisher is innacurate and only gets one shot, which can be negated by cover or just shake the target anyway. It isn't AP 1, which for a >200 point vehicle with 1 shot (ok probably a lascannon too) is not good enough. You shoot the storm bolter off a rhino or something, and nobody cares. If there's a land raider, melt it.

There's also no variant that's great against monstrous creatures, though the plasma variant does have some claim to be good at this (and is also the most expensive version). If you have a lot of points and already field 2 standard russes then a tank putting down 5 plasma blasts a turn will make a definite impact. Arguably though, the demolisher, with its strength 10 ordnance gun, is a more versatile tank. It is able to instant kill all kinds of stuff and go through tank armour for fun.

Demolisher probably fits your army best, I'd say. It might do a bit of moving so it's debatable whether it needs plasma sponsons, though on the other hand even if it does move it still fires the turret and one sponson.


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## Gandalf the Black (Jul 18, 2009)

A Punisher with pask is a troop killer, pair one up with a hellhound. Hellhound flames straight along enemy lines, Punisher punishes anyone behind.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

I would say, go for the executioner with plasma sponsons.. not because it's effective ( though 5 plasma cannon shots ARE), but just because it's damn scary.

Ohterwise, maybe take a look at the Manticore artillery.. it can shoot only 4 times, but it's Heavy d3 S10 AP4 Large Blast.. that can really hurt some things.


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## pylco (Jun 2, 2008)

the only thing i don't like about the demolisher is it's short range, 24' , with IG that's a problem... I don't like it when the enemy get's close to my tanks ( lemans armour is only good at the front). what can I put along the demolisher as support? a squad with a heavy bolter or a heavy weapons squad?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

pylco said:


> the only thing i don't like about the demolisher is it's short range, 24' , with IG that's a problem... I don't like it when the enemy get's close to my tanks ( lemans armour is only good at the front). what can I put along the demolisher as support? a squad with a heavy bolter or a heavy weapons squad?


The thing when playing Guard is that almost all of your opponents will be coming toward you anyway, because they know that there's no chance that they can outshoot you. Thus, the 24" range isn't that big a deal in most cases, though I can see it suffering a great deal against Tau and Eldar.

As far as supporting the Demolisher goes, just about any unit will do, even if it's just a plain old Infantry Squad. More or less the idea is to prevent the enemy from getting too many shots on your more vulnerable side armor and to intercept units that may look to assault the Demolisher. An Infantry Squad in a Chimera armed with a grenade launcher and missile launcher can keep pace with the Russ as it rolls about while still contributing to the fight by shooting from the Chimera's fire points, while positioning itself in a way that makes it a real pain for your enemy to get at the Demolisher's side. If a unit is fast approaching that could be a significant threat to the Russ, disembark from the Chimera and form a defensive line in front of the battle tank to intercept assaulters. If the threatening unit is more shooting oriented, like a squad of Attack Bikes, you can instead move 6" straight at the enemy with the Chimera, then have everyone disembark and fire. Between the shooting from your Infantry Squad and the Chimera itself, you should be able to take out most threats.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

24" generally isn't THAT bad.. especially since with the new lumbering behemoth rule, you can move 6" and still fire that cannon, giving you an effective range of 30". To protect the side armour, a 'sacrificial' chimera does wonders, and a squad of vetereans inside can lay down some serious fire with melta guns, flamers, plasma guns or whatever you want on anything getting close enough to try and pop your demolisher.
Give the Demolisher plasma sponsons, and you got something that is Dead Killy.
Enemies rushing towards you face some massive guns, and if they don't come towards you, moving forwards and shooting one sponson and the cannon is still deadly.
( Or simply stand still and fire both sponsons, since they have a better range than the demolisher, If they have such mega range, like tau, their armour and such generally suffers, so plasma is still deadly. )


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## rokar4life (Jun 21, 2008)

the kind that's 9 basilisks


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I'm really not a big fan of the IG artillery, especially in squadrons. It's incredibly fragile with all the side armour 10 open topped stuff, meaning you are wrecked on a 3+ penetrating shot. It will do a bunch of damage to infantry in the open but you don't want to see what happens when you get drop pods landing, eldar tanks ignoring your shooting, people outflanking or even just a bunch of rhinos letting off smoke.

The tanks are a very different prospect with armour 14/13. Taking them out at range is very difficult when even a railgun only penetrates one hit in three. The great strength of the basic russ is that it has no need to approach the enemy, and get itself assaulted or melted. It can hang back and drop templates on stuff, and that stuff will be very unhappy about it. They do still need some looking after, but not that much. Often your opponent will choose to shoot other stuff anyway, like the valks and chimeras with your troops in, but that just means the tank does even more harm.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Someguy said:


> It can hang back and drop templates on stuff, and that stuff will be very unhappy about it.


Heheheh. That made me chuckle out loud for some reason.

"Oi! Stop it with the templates over there!" *insert sad face*


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## pylco (Jun 2, 2008)

> The great strength of the basic russ is that it has no need to approach the enemy, and get itself assaulted or melted. It can hang back and drop templates on stuff, and that stuff will be very unhappy about it.


I agree with Someguy, my last game was against eldar, first round direct hit on warp spiders!!! the didn't know what hit them! second round there go's the fire prism. At the end both of my lemans where still alive ( one had 3 crew stuned results in the final round!) 

So again with the issue: basic leman versatile,long range,large blast, S8 AP3
demolisher short range,large blast,S10 AP1 , kills everything, but IG have BS 3 so there is 50 % chance the enemy will live, at very close range.
And I don't like the idea of sacrificing a chimera with a squad.OK we are guardsmen and expendable but at least we will die for something (objective, wining) and not to save a demolisher. I will only make a sacrifice at a battle if I will gain something from my opponent, and saving a tank for a round is to mouch. All posts agree that a demolisher is a prime target, so that means a lot of protection = more points that doesn't moves


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Well it's not really 'sacrificing' a chimera and vets, they support the demolisher, increasing it's surviveablility, and also claim objectives and such along the way.
The chimera on the flank will stop them from shooting the side armour, so they'll have to shoot the front armour, since the demolisher is the prime target, they'll probably ignore the chimera, meaning both 'benefit' from the frontal AV14 on the demolisher.
Meanwhile, your vets have a mobile firing bunker from where they can unleash their own pain.
And the multilaser can help mop up anything the demolisher didn't kill.


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## Lord_Murdock (Jul 16, 2008)

Personally, I'd go with another standard Leman Russ. From personal experience, they're the best choice. They're really cheap for what you get, and that large blast is really nice.

The Pask Punisher is also really mean (excellent for taking down daemon princes/greater daemons), but it's also worth a truckload of points. The executioner with plasma cannon sponsons is crazy too, especially if you're facing someone with a lot of 2+ saves or FnP, but again... that's a lot of points for one tank. I wouldn't bother with the vanquisher. It's relatively cheap (even with the hull lascannon, which I would recommend taking if you must use this tank), but although it's good against tanks, once the opponent has no more tanks it can kill a maximum of 2 troops a turn. Yay.

Actually, I prefer Basilisks over Leman Russes anyway. Just park them somewhere far away (behind a building preferably) and shoot stuff. They aren't really front-line tanks though, so whichever you choose really depends on your play style.


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## damnation321 (Jul 18, 2009)

Id have to agree with most people and go with the demolisheer. If you are really concerned about enemys closing in then just put a wall og guard out in front of the demolisher. Most enemys that get into its range of 24 wount be their for long and whatever your demolisher doesnt kill you can do it with the grunts. Besides if you have a heavy bolter in the hull, two plasma blasts, and the demolisher cannon going into an enemy unit they wount be thier for long. In my experiance there usually is enough bodies of guard that the enemy cant really flank you until they destroy that 50+wall of flesh and bone before them. Also i have only one russ but it rarely gets destroyed in games.... wish i had more


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## gabool (Apr 3, 2008)

If you have alot of points to spend a Pask Executioner with plasma sponsors 5 plasma cannon shots with BS 4 and verse tanks they are +1 to pen roll and reroll wound for MC its devastating.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

gabool said:


> If you have alot of points to spend a Pask Executioner with plasma sponsors 5 plasma cannon shots with BS 4 and verse tanks they are +1 to pen roll and reroll wound for MC its devastating.


Not much point putting Pask in an Executioner - plasma weaponry has a very high Strength already so the reroll to wound Monstrous Creatures probably won't be needed. Also, plasma cannons really aren't the best anti-tank weapons even with Pask's bonuses. Pask is probably best off in an Exterminator, Punisher or something.


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## Colonel Wolf (Nov 11, 2009)

I tend to go for two LRBTs and either a Demolisher or an Executioner. The LRBTs are my general troop and light vehicle killers and the Dem or Exe are for when something special shows up.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Personally i wouldn't get a third russ, i would get a basilisk. I konw they not as survivable, but park it into a corner (and i mean in a corner right next to the edge) and have instantly protected more then 50% of it's fragile facings. If you lucky enough to have a building on your flank then that's 75% with one way to get to you  and if you park a russ in front of it then your laughing. They can't get you but your still shelling the carp out of them.

Are you wanting or needing another tank though? that's the question

If you want one, then i would reasses whether a third tank is really the best choice as it can leave you without versatility.

If you need one go basic, still just as killy as any of the new variants, and cheaper.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

I would look at taking a squadron of two Hydra tanks; those things are mean!

You already have two LRBTs for anti MEQ work, the Hydra's compliment that by seriously hurting fast-moving threats that would be a real waste to fire your Battlecannons at (Rhino's w/smoke, Turbo-boosting bikes/attack bikes, Land Speeders, Skimmers moving flat-out). 
And when they're done knocking out those, turn the guns on the infantry and watch them melt.

The amount of fire that two Hydra's can put out will make your opponent seriously reconsider their target priority.


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## Starfire (Oct 19, 2009)

i love basilisks! and the armour has never been an issue for me - if the enemy is able to shoot at your basilisks then your doing something very wrong  (or its one of your few remaining units)


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I would go with something that is indirect fire capable. So you can shell what you cannot see. You have to direct fire units already. The basi would compliment nicely as would the collosus.


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## elkhantar (Nov 14, 2008)

The big problem I see with indirect fire in 5th is outflankers and deep strikers. Since bassie's armour is paper thin and so many things can get around the table fast to hit them, they tend to go down pretty easily anyway.

Personally, I think I like the idea of a couple of hydras better


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