# Tactical Value of Fire Dragons in a Take-All-Comers List



## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

I have a list for Eldar that is highly mechanized (http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17162) and has a good deal of anti-tank. I was wondering if I needed to change my plan for my Fire Dragons.

My plan is to have the Wave Serpent move flat out Turn 1 and get close (<22") to an enemy, usually a Landraider or a squad of obliterators. Turn two move roughly 10 inches, disembark, and fire off a volley (10 BS4 shots) of Fusion guns (12" S8 AP1) and hopefully kill it/them.

My problem is that unless I'm against an armor heavy list this is all they will be doing for most of the game. True the Wave Serpent will still be a viable transport for the rest of my army, but I was wondering if there was a better way to spend my 330pts. I was considering trading them for a squad of Striking Scorpions for +/- 20 pts.


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## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

A whole squad packing Meltas is never a bad thing.

I say keep the dragons and use 'em on MEQs


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Thanks Cole, forgot to mention my main enemies are Black Templar, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Khornate Chaos Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Tyrannids and Blood Angels.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

the fact that the whole squad has melta guns is great, this means it will kill almost anything it is pointed at with near impunity. add to that the exarch, and it is a great all around unit. Keep it, it will make 'fexes cry.


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## onlainari (May 10, 2008)

Fire dragons are pretty much the most powerful unit in eldar.


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

How could I forget about MC? I was wondering how to take them down. I'm thinking I should keep the Banshees near them to rescue them if they get charged by any survivors.


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## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

They've got assault weapons.
Shoot and scoot.

EDIT: Well, scoot, THEN shoot, but you know....


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I think you'll find that the unit can be more tactically flexible with the simple addition of an Exarch with a Dragon's Breath Flamer and crack shot (gotta love having what's basically a twin-linked flamer). Otherwise though you've been given the right idea by others in this thread. Best of luck!


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## Madmcc (Jul 29, 2008)

Fire Dragon's are great, but they are usually one trick ponies. They will definitely kill their target, but T3 and an AV of 4+ means they will usually only get to be used that one time.

If used correctly though, that one time can win you the battle.

Cheers


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Madmcc said:


> Fire Dragon's are great, but they are usually one trick ponies. They will definitely kill their target, but T3 and an AV of 4+ means they will usually only get to be used that one time.
> 
> If used correctly though, that one time can win you the battle.
> 
> Cheers


right on, if you supported them with another unit, how would that improve their odds?


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## Madmcc (Jul 29, 2008)

Rather drastically! 

Its always the same with Eldar though, eh? They only work properly when the army work as a single unit. You would have plenty of options from the codex to support this kind of tactic, but before picking you would have to consider what the actual target of the fire dragons will be.

From that you can then define the role of the supporting unit. For example, will they be used to charge into the remnants of the target, or will it be more likely that they will have to engage a supporting enemy unit.

You will end up spending a hell of a lot of points on this kind of thing, but they can usually wipe out anything you like from your opponents force. Probably before they know what's happening too.

Those skinny little buggers are fast!


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## Johnny Genocide (Mar 4, 2008)

As already mentioned Fire Dragons are kind of a one trick pony. You can hop out and bag a unit but then they are most likely going to get wiped out in return. That is why you should take advantage of the Eldar's mobilty and isolate a unit from the rest of the enemy force and neutralize it. Then you can hop back in the truck and drive away.

What I used to do was the good ole Falcon-Dragon drop which included 5 dragons in a falcon. Boost up, kill something and use the Falcon's increased survivability to make it out alive. And if the dragons do get charged it's only 80 points lost. I think that's a reasonable sacrifice for the 150+ tank that they usually take out.

A little bit off topic but what I've been using recently is a unit of 10 Swooping Hawks and an Autarch with Wings and Fusion Gun. Fly in, bag a tank and then Skyleap out next turn. If done correctly you can effectively hop around the board knocking off tanks and other big nasties.


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Skyleap makes the Swooping Hawks an excellent harassment unit, especially against horde armies. But, if anyone wants to make this a discussion on the value of any/all aspects, feel free.


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## Johnny Genocide (Mar 4, 2008)

Well, if that's the case. What's everyone's opinion on the synergy of Shining Spears and Warp Spiders. I like to use Spiders to take advantage of they're Str6 weapons to soften up a squad and charge relying on their high armor save and the exarch's power weapon attacks to cause some casualties.

Then have the Spears charge in and finish off the squads leaving both to move on to different targets.


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Might work. I'm not that big a fan of the Warp Spiders. Yes, they have S 6 deathspinners, but they are AP -. You automatically take a -1 on vehicle pen. Similarly, you wound MEQ on a 2+, but they still get their save. The Power Weapons are very good, and the S 6 on the laser lance is amazing. I would rather have Spears and Reapers for killing MEQ.


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## Johnny Genocide (Mar 4, 2008)

I learned that this setup only works efficiently against small elite units like terminators and such or against GEQ.

I used it against a unit of 5 terminators and with warp spiders rapid firing the sheer amount of shots and relative ease to wound usually results in at least 2 dying. And then with the spears and and their Str 6 PWs charging in it is almost always enough to finish off the unit.

Oh yea, and this works wonders against Genestealers as well ;]


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

good hints. I always thought that striking Scorpions and swooping hawks would be a good buy. But I def gonna pick up some Fire Dragons like I planned:biggrin:


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

I think Scorpions would be an awesome CC horde killer. I love 3+ armor, and 3 attacks Init 5. :so_happy:


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## Johnny Genocide (Mar 4, 2008)

Yes, yes they are.

Scorpions utterly rape Guardsman as well as 'Nids. I personally like teaming up Avengers with Scorpions against big units of gaunts.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

striking scorpions are one of the most underrated units in 40k. many look at the lack of power weapons and cringe at the thought of pitting them against meq. I have foung that they not only hold their own, but can lay waste to even SM asault squads, even when charged. the comperable strength, armorsave, and higher init makes for a deadly combo, especialy with an exarch or phoenix lord.


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Karandras and a squad with Exarch w/Biting Blade might just kill a Carnifex. Quick Question: With a Scorpion's Claw does the attack from the Mandiblasters also count as Double Strength? And from that comes the question: Double strength is the base strength not counting the bonus from the Scorpion Chainsaw?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Underground Heretic said:


> Karandras and a squad with Exarch w/Biting Blade might just kill a Carnifex. Quick Question: With a Scorpion's Claw does the attack from the Mandiblasters also count as Double Strength? And from that comes the question: Double strength is the base strength not counting the bonus from the Scorpion Chainsaw?


Yes, you're basically swinging an extra power fist attack.

Yes, the claw will attack with S6.


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## Johnny Genocide (Mar 4, 2008)

Another fun, but basic combo:
Howling Banshees and Dire Avengers. Have them both in Serpents, when you disembark bladestorm if needed with the avengers otherwise ust fire normally, and then charge with banshees. ALmost guaranteed to take out the squad.

Oh yea, Guided Reapers and Exarch with Tempest Launcher firing at Doomed MEQs means almost everytime it will take out an entire Tac Squad =]


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Picked up two packs of Reapers and might switch the powers on my farseer. Thanks Johnny.


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