# Best Low Point SM Commander



## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

Ok, me and my mate (Gandalf the Black) are planning to play a game thing, we start at 500 points and eventually go on to 2000 points and I need to know which would be the best SM commander to take, I'm leaning towards a Librarian with Gate and Avenger.


----------



## techwitch (Nov 6, 2009)

wait low points and a librarian or does it not matter what type of HQ?


----------



## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

Captain on a bike with a relic blade is not super cheap, but he's pretty nasty. If you want to go with dirt cheap useful HQ, take a master of the forge. He's got a 2+ save so at 500pts he won't have to worry about much, and has power weapons in CC.


----------



## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

Hmm, sounds good mate, I'll use him (always liked Techies)


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Snowy said:


> Hmm, sounds good mate, I'll use him (always liked Techies)


He has 2 Power fist attacks, a TL-Plasma pistol, and a Flamer.
He is a KICK ASS HQ choice, for his cost.
I'd give him a Storm Bolter for 5 points, may as well, and unless you buy him a melee weapon the pistol means nothing; so you gain an attack at 24" for no sacrifice basically.


----------



## Siphon (Jan 17, 2009)

Conversion beamer please.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Siphon said:


> Conversion beamer please.


The problem with the conversion beamer is that it sorta makes the Master of the Forge useless at doing anything but shooting. I'm personally a fan of using him to support other units. Put him in a unit of Sternguard or something and give them either a Rhino or Drop Pod and he can do some impressive things.


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

A lot of it is personal taste. It also depends on how consistent your army is over the course of the escalation-- do you have to stay with the same units (not necessarily options, but units) once they've been selected, or are you going to completely retool your army at each successive points level?

If you're stuck with the unit for the entire campaign, I'd take a Captain, armed with a power sword, bolt pistol, digital weapons, and an auxiliary grenade launcher. That gives you solid close combat ability and a great ranged weapon, so depending on the scenario, he's always useful. You won't break the bank with him, either, and there's room to give him artificer armor, a jump pack, trade in the power sword for a relic blade, etc. later. 

At 500 points, keep in mind that your sergeants will carry the army, not the HQ-- if push comes to shove, a Captain with a power sword, boltgun, and hellfire rounds will come in at 125 points and leave you plenty of room to bring two properly equipped Tactical Squads, and possibly even a Razorback for one of them to provide some additional firepower.

However, if you're running named characters, check out Chaplain Cassius. He's dirt cheap and he's tough as nails-- he's perfect for low points games.


----------



## Siphon (Jan 17, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> The problem with the conversion beamer is that it sorta makes the Master of the Forge useless at doing anything but shooting. I'm personally a fan of using him to support other units. Put him in a unit of Sternguard or something and give them either a Rhino or Drop Pod and he can do some impressive things.


Yes, but a str 6-10 blast with BS 5 and 72inch range. He may stink at everything except shooting, but his shooting is so nice. I can see the bonus to using him with sternguard, but I like the gun better and I can't get it with any other HQ, whereas I can get a melee beatstick with a Captain or Chaplain. 

Too each her own I guess.


----------



## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Chaplain...best hq for the points...give him a JP and you are at 115 pts for someone that gives re-rolls to an assault marine squad.


Granted...I would much rather have a Wolf Priest but whatever.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Siphon said:


> Yes, but a str 6-10 blast with BS 5 and 72inch range. He may stink at everything except shooting, but his shooting is so nice. I can see the bonus to using him with sternguard, but I like the gun better and I can't get it with any other HQ, whereas I can get a melee beatstick with a Captain or Chaplain.
> 
> Too each her own I guess.


No, you're absolutely right. The Master of the Forge is really good with a conversion beamer - I find that the problem is staying far enough away from the enemy to take advantage of its unique abilities. Because of this, I've found that the Master of the Forge makes a great support HQ, someone who joins a unit and augments its firepower. I mean, think about all the shooting he brings to any unit he joins - he has whatever he's normally armed with (combi-melta is a favorite of mine), a flamer and a twin-linked plasma pistol. He's able to help deal with basically anything with that loadout and brings a pair of power fists into the fight as well.

Maybe I'm a bit biased because I had a super Techmarine back in 4th edition, though. :laugh:

Katie D


----------



## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

Well, I have to keep the same HQ and one Troops, I'm thinking something like a Master of the Forge, a bike squad to roll with and three scout squads, hmm, not that great now I look at it, hmm


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Snowy said:


> Well, I have to keep the same HQ and one Troops


What do you mean by that?


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Winterous said:


> What do you mean by that?


He's in an escalating campaign dealy that starts at 500 points and increases in increments from there. Explained on the first page methinks.


----------



## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

yep, my newest viewpoint is a captain with two bike squads, not the hardiest army, but I may do alright against a Lascannon spamming Guard?


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Snowy said:


> yep, my newest viewpoint is a captain with two bike squads, not the hardiest army, but I may do alright against a Lascannon spamming Guard?


You might, as long as you play smart and make the best of _Turbo Boost_. Just watch for heavy bolters and autocannons as they can force units of Bikes to take a large number of armor saves since their Strength is high enough to largely bypass the Toughness of your Bikes.

For a Captain on a Bike, try this out:

Captain
- Bolt pistol
- Power weapon
- Space Marine Bike
- Hellfire rounds
Pts: 160

He could be given digital weapons too, but at 500 points there's not much room for such luxuries. It's definately worth looking into at around the 750-1,000 point ranges though.

Best of luck!

Katie D


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> He's in an escalating campaign dealy that starts at 500 points and increases in increments from there. Explained on the first page methinks.


Aah ok, I didn't pick that up.
In that case, the MotF would work well if you took a Land Raider as a transport, he can stay inside and fix it up, while also being a good melee character; put him in a squad of Vanguard Veterans inside the transport, you've got a very solid and not too expensive assault unit there.



Snowy said:


> yep, my newest viewpoint is a captain with two bike squads, not the hardiest army, but I may do alright against a Lascannon spamming Guard?


Bikes are alright, but they're generally too expensive to use as the core of your army.
You get few models, and what you do get dies very easily to Plasma guns and Lascannon.
You get great firepower and mobility at the expense of survivability against anything but light weapons.


----------



## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

So from the looks of it, I should take something like a Cap, a Bike Squad, and Scout or Tac squads, ok ?


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Snowy said:


> So from the looks of it, I should take something like a Cap, a Bike Squad, and Scout or Tac squads, ok ?


I'd say take a Tac squad and Scout bikers.
For 10 points on the bikers, you get what (at that points level) could be devastating to their army. Cluster mines is what I'm talking about.

Sure they're only slightly cheaper, and have a 4+ save instead of 3+ (which can mean all the difference when you can't use cover), but those mines could destroy your enemy, and the ability to infiltrate and use a scout move could serve you well too.


----------



## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

Hmm, sounds goddamn good


----------



## Pirate Metal Troy (Jun 2, 2008)

At this point in must express my love for the Master of the Forge. He's the best cheap and dirty HQ choice by far. He's a swiss army knife of useful crap. At 125 points he's got 2+ armor, 2 powerfist attacks, 2 power weapon attacks, a flamer, plasma pistol, bolter, and meltagun (albeit only a single shot). Never forget he's allowed to shoot any two of his weapons.

He really loses out on not having an invul save. If he had an iron halo, he'd be the best non-unique HQ in the codex, since he can still die horribly to a single lascannon shot. He's also not ws6, and only has 2 wounds, but for the equipment you get at his upgraded 125 points, he far outclasses the chapter master. Not to mention bolster defences and blessing of the omnissiah.

I love tech marines!


----------



## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

Oh, I'm torn between Master of the Forge and a Captain, hmm, help me decide, it's either you, or the dice. I don't trust those dice, I think I just saw the captain talking to them.


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Snowy said:


> Oh, I'm torn between Master of the Forge and a Captain, hmm, help me decide, it's either you, or the dice. I don't trust those dice, I think I just saw the captain talking to them.


Have you any idea what you're taking in the rest of your army?


----------



## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

well, I'm going for a two tac squad thing, but I really looked at it and compared it, and I found that I liked the Captain more.

But I looked at it again and I found that I like Chaplin Cassius more now, when will I find my personal Favourite, hmm, I did some test's and found that Cassius fitted my style, thanks guys, I just need that perfect list, this will take a while.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Heh, just don't strain yourself over a 500 point list. There are only so many variations possible when it comes to such a small army.


----------



## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

hehe, yeah, been thinking about the list for nearly a week and I just can't get it right, I've got Cassius and what, a scout squad or three, or maybe a tac squad, here's my most favourite list right now

Cassius

RAS without jump packs in a rhino and Meltabombs, eh, I had 5 points

Tac squad, ML and Flamer

Sniper Scouts with ML and CC


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Snowy said:


> RAS without jump packs in a rhino and Meltabombs, eh, I had 5 points


Out of curiosity, why not with Jump packs?

*quick edit*
Oh wait, Cassius, duh.


----------



## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

yeah, it's kinda cheaper that way, instead of buying the rhino for a Tac squad


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Snowy said:


> yeah, it's kinda cheaper that way, instead of buying the rhino for a Tac squad


Yeah, so you've got the Assault squad with Cassius in their Rhino, getting all up in the enemy's grill.
Sweet.


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Personally my favourite in low point games is a captain with twin lightning claws.


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Personally my favourite in low point games is a captain with twin lightning claws.


That's pretty good actually, 130 points for a pretty monstrous melee champion, I always think that the cost of the wargear is too much, but when you compare it to the base cost, it's not that bad.


----------



## Arcades Dolor (Jul 17, 2009)

As long as you don't mind delegating HQ-busting duty to another unit, the MotF is pretty good at low levels, but at WS4, he'll have a hard time standing against a Warboss, Captain, Lord, or any other WS5+ leader.


----------

