# So... what is games workshop doing RIGHT?



## liforrevenge (Oct 6, 2009)

Lets face it, we all have our qualms with GW, just look at 90% of the threads here. But they must be doing _something_ right, or else I can't imagine any of us would be playing these games at all. (let's pretend it isn't just because of what they have done in the past)

as a glass half full person, let's talk about some of the things we like that GW is doing.

saying simply "nothing" will be frowned upon.

Myself, I'm a fan of how accessible they make the hobby aspect of it. Sure, it costs an arm and a leg, but for someone who knows nothing about arts and crafts they have certainly presented it in a way that I can get in to.


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## wombat_tree (Nov 30, 2008)

Well for one thing the models are brilliant. Expensive, yes, but undeniably brilliant (at least most are). Aswell as this although some arn't to pleased about the changes the 5th ed rulebook made the game still has a very good set of rules and the fluff is brilliant beyond words.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

If it wasint for the deep history, customizable mini's, and the extensive fluff, I would have nothing to do with the games. 


If this is some sort of response to my latest thread, I never meant GW was doing anything wrong, I just wish they would change a few things.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

They're doing ok with Fantasy these days. But on the 40k front... they really have been doing everything exactly wrong for about a year and a half now. And the hobby end of things has always been a joke from GW-- they make some of the worst products out there for painting, and sell tools at 1000% of what a hardware store would price them at.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

The Son of Horus said:


> They're doing ok with Fantasy these days. But on the 40k front... they really have been doing everything exactly wrong for about a year and a half now. And the hobby end of things has always been a joke from GW-- they make some of the worst products out there for painting, and sell tools at 1000% of what a hardware store would price them at.


There were whispers (approx two years ago!) that 40k was going to be put on the back burner, it looks like they have been doing just that.......


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

It's not even so much that it seems to be on the back burner as much as it just seems that it's being developed in exactly the wrong way. There's one-- maybe two-- armies you can build out of a given Codex-- even 'friendly' armies from a given book look a lot alike, regardless of whose army it is-- and if you're not playing the hustle the book is built around, the army doesn't function. It's independent of what you do, as the player, to boot. It seems like they just stopped playtesting, and arbitratily decided that they'd make each subsequent codex _ better _ than the last. Now, there's always power creep, but this isn't so much that as "until a new book comes out, you're not going to lose with the newest book." Imperial Guard and Space Wolves are shining examples of that. Even though I'm building a Space Wolves army, I can't stand the book-- I happen to like the models GW came out with for them, and so it's a modelling project, and I doubt I'll ever play the army. I don't see how it's any fun, honestly-- in the case of the Imperial Guard, how is it fun to play against an army that's nothing but tanks that 90% of your army doesn't matter against? With Space Wolves, how is it fun to play against a Space Marine army whose models are fundamentally better than yours in every mechanical way, and cheaper points-wise to boot? It's not a game at that point, it's a question of whether you bought the new army or not.

Skaven are an excellent example of how Fantasy isn't like that, I think. There are some good builds out of the Skaven book, but it's not fundamentally broken. Quite the opposite-- they took an army that needed to be revised, brought out some new models, made the army as a whole playable in comparison to other armies with current books, and clearly playtested it with game balance in mind rather than what will solely sell models. Of course, they made sure the stuff that got new models are worth bringing, but not absolute must-haves for the army to function. For example, you can have a very competitive Skaven army without stormvermin, named characters, a screaming bell/plague furnace, or doomwheel.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Hmm? What are they doing right?.... Hmm....
Oh! The models are really affordab.... No, no....
Oh! They really care about their fanbas.... No, not that either.
Oh! They release a wide variety of miniatures not just space ma.... No, no.... Hmm...
Oh!........ No.

In all seriousness some of the models are pretty good, and the rules make the game pretty enjoyable.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

I totally agree with you Son of Horus. 

Because of all the crap WH40k codex's and rulebooks sometimes I feel like "packing it in", switching to a collector, and focusing on my model railroading hobby, its not as competitive and there are no rules/rulebooks. Except dont burn your house down lol!


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

the fiction writers have really good imaginations, and i find the fluff and story aspect to 40k very engaging and interesting. i think you really have to be hooked by that to be hooked on the hobby for a long time. 

it does seem like every new codex since 5th edition just instantly becomes the next best army to use. but i feel like all the codecies that have come out since 5th are like that compared to 4th edition stuff. i dont know about 5th to 5th.

here is a simple way to ask it. would a new space wolves army stomp all over a new imperial guard army? this assumes both players are about equal of course.

also, i dont know about them putting 40k on the back burner. it is still definitely their main source of income. they are probably focusing a bit more on fantasy right now because fantasy was going down the tubes since there are a lot more, and newer, games that are much more similar to fantasy than 40k. so maybe it is just that GW has a hard time balancing fantasy and 40k at once, and instead keep letting one get worse while improving the other and creating a continual process of this.


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

I think you have got it very wrong about Guard and Wolves. Guard are definitely better than they were, but they are not an army that grants you an automatic win when you stick them on the table. The same with wolves. I bought the codex recently and compared with the old, if not ancient previous codex the army is not that much greater.

When fighting Wolves there are different sets of considerations to bring to the table and if done properly you can neutralise the threats they pose. 40K is far more balanced than WFB in regard to armies and power balance. It's true they do not really play test any of the games that intensively, but the core rules carry the game.

I have really liked what they did with 5th edition, and with the emphasis on troops has balanced or challenged some armies to be a bit more level.

Regarding the cost or tools, glue, paintbrushes and what have you then it will be more expensive than buying the products from DIY stores or art shops. That's why I never buy those things in there. As GW almost definitly do not manufacure these items themseleves there is going to be a premium mark up on them. But if it saves you a car journey and parking elsewhere, which is a premium here in the UK at £1.11 per litre for petrol and at least a £1 for parking, then you may be breaking even.

Like most hobbies its what you get out of it that is important. I play once or twice a week if the wife lets me and enjoy the social side as well as wiping some ones army from the table. With an artistic background I also enjoy the painting and modelling aspect and feel I get value for money.

It is anoying when a new codex or army book comes out and there are obvious contradictions with the core rules and other glaring queries, such as the current Space Wolves book has thrown up, and the FAQ is a long time in coming. This Is something that I often feel more thought could be thrown into and more speed to get the document out, but thats life.

With a game System as complicated as it is, there are always going to be occasions when wording and rule sets do not cover every senario under the sun and requires the players to act like adults to work out a soloution. It's part and parcel with all systems like this.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Correct me if im wrong but didnt the opening poster ask what GW was doing right? I think the point may have been missed by some.
things done right in my opinion 
modular plastic terrain for both core systems
Moving much of the warhammer range to plastic
first steps into interchangeable weapons with imperial guard
super heavy models in plastic
CAD designed vehicles and models allowing more details and greater number of parts
Assault on black reach introduction to the hobby


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## fatmantis (Jun 26, 2009)

reading these posts makes me wonder "what happend to playing for the sake of playing?"
if all you care about is winning then youve lost why you probably started to play in the first place, stop winging and start enjoyingk:
as fro what gw do right customer service is good in my book, no problem to small or question to stupid( and boy can i ask some) so thats a win.
and yes i agree its expensive but then again what hobby isnt?


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

The newer multi-part plastic sets are pretty neat, and generally getting better. Even if you don't particularly like the models, the customisability and extra options put with the new kits are pretty awesome. I especially love some of the fantasy kits they've been coming out with. The basic 40k 5th ed. rules set is also pretty good, and they're certainly an improvement from previous editions. if they didn't constantly mess with the way things work all the time in the new codexes, they'd be even better, but that's by the by. 

The new 'Dexes are full of pretty cool stuff, and are far more interesting and fun rules wise than the rather plain 4th ed codexes, and hopefully that trend will continue. If it wasn't for the huge level of codex creep, and rather glaring mistakes they made in the rules, I'd say this was some of their best work.

Basically, GW has the potential to be such a great company, they just need to double it up on the customer service, on fixing up their mistakes, on taking feedback from and talking to the community a bit more.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

well they haven't cut off specialist games completely yet, I suppose thats 1 good thing, it will happen, but its good they haven't cut them off completely yet.

probably because thy forgot they even exist, but oh well.


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## primeministersinsiter (May 31, 2009)

Archiving White Dwarf was prett rad.
The move to plastics for most troops is pretty cool.
Bitz packs are a great idea.
I don't build gaming armies, I build narrative armies, so the Codicies don't really confront me none. Shifting fluff bugs me though.


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## Sigmatus (Nov 22, 2009)

primeministersinsiter said:


> Archiving White Dwarf was prett rad.
> The move to plastics for most troops is pretty cool.
> Bitz packs are a great idea.
> I don't build gaming armies, I build narrative armies, so the Codicies don't really confront me none. Shifting fluff bugs me though.


Agreed, especially on the last point.
Pretty much echoing everything that's already been said here. The fluff is, in my opinion, one of the best stories ever told. If people start to have a problem with the rules they'll eventually vote with their wallets.


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

40k has great fluff and is quite accessible, apart from the price but thats what you get for picking the hobby, just think about all the people at DAARPA whose hobby is to build ray guns and stuff, that costs even more!

I like the fact the the GW shops aren't just shops. I know the americans complain about getting bugged by the staff but at my local shop the staff are great and never realy try to sell you anything. At my store you can go in and hang out doing some painting while you wait for a game, talk to other people there (including the staff btw). I think GW should nuture the social side of wargaming because that is the most awesome thing about it regardless of system.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

Calamari said:


> 40k has great fluff and is quite accessible, apart from the price but thats what you get for picking the hobby, just think about all the people at DAARPA whose hobby is to build ray guns and stuff, that costs even more!
> 
> I like the fact the the GW shops aren't just shops. I know the americans complain about getting bugged by the staff but at my local shop the staff are great and never realy try to sell you anything. At my store you can go in and hang out doing some painting while you wait for a game, talk to other people there (including the staff btw). I think GW should nuture the social side of wargaming because that is the most awesome thing about it regardless of system.


More shops need to be like this across the pond, but now they shove their stuff down your throat. Its not much of a problem for me because when I go there, I know what I want and I get it quickly. After that they usually leave me alone.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

fatmantis said:


> reading these posts makes me wonder "what happend to playing for the sake of playing?"
> if all you care about is winning then youve lost why you probably started to play in the first place, stop winging and start enjoyingk:
> as fro what gw do right customer service is good in my book, no problem to small or question to stupid( and boy can i ask some) so thats a win.
> and yes i agree its expensive but then again what hobby isnt?


Its harder to play a game with rules that contradict eachother or arent laid out properly etc. etc. 

I have seen (and been in) arguments over little dumb rules they put out that could have easily been filtered out.


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## Franko1111 (Jun 25, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> well they haven't cut off specialist games completely yet, I suppose thats 1 good thing, it will happen, but its good they haven't cut them off completely yet.
> 
> probably because thy forgot they even exist, but oh well.


well as long as they keep the pdf downloads for the specialist games im happy because at less they don't have a power creep and from what i've seen are even and fun:good:


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Fleshed out storyline, hh and other Bl books, everything Forgeworld(despite the prices), all good.
Continued model output from GW proper also excellent both in quality of the sculpts and quantity. Terrain. for those of us who need to spend their time clearing a huge backlog of models the variety of new terrain is a godsend.

The gw pricing should be looked at. Ok it is an expensive hobby but there are siome serious anomalies within the pricing structure. 
The wide vaiety of new models need to be directed at the armies that need them not the sm's all the time. Same for new codices. Bring all armies int 5th ed before contemplating a new edition. I think the last is the most important. If they are going to run competitive tourneys then this should be the way it is. How can you have competition with the disparity between the codices?


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## shmabadu (Oct 2, 2009)

Umm, I find a lot of what I've read here and on the post "10 things I hate about GW" or whatever it was called a bit disconcerting. I've only recently started playing 40k and can say I love the models(they look amazing), the fluff(incredibly imaginative), and the gameplay(very enjoyable). Looking at many of these posts though I think I'm just naive and in a few years I to will be a disgruntled gamer complaining about the inadequacies of 7th edition and how the new codex makes whomever to powerful. Please somebody tell me this isn't the only path to tread.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

It isn't. I am completely satisfied with GW. They've provided me with an immensely fun game, and while their pricing may be questionable, they must have some sort of good reason for it. Perhaps its all the new plastic molding equipment they have to buy to phase out metal models...

Anyway, the story is the most alluring part. Super fleshed out fluff and interesting history play a large part in the game.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

shmabadu said:


> Umm, I find a lot of what I've read here and on the post "10 things I hate about GW" or whatever it was called a bit disconcerting. I've only recently started playing 40k and can say I love the models(they look amazing), the fluff(incredibly imaginative), and the gameplay(very enjoyable). Looking at many of these posts though I think I'm just naive and in a few years I to will be a disgruntled gamer complaining about the inadequacies of 7th edition and how the new codex makes whomever to powerful. Please somebody tell me this isn't the only path to tread.


It certainly isn't the only path. It's just that quite a lot of players get disgruntled with GW, as they get deeper into the game. There is a lack of community involvement when it comes to GW - while individuals in the company may be nice, the company seems to mostly keep itself aloof from the player base. This is rather annoying, especially when you're putting a good chunk of money and time into the game.

If GW really got more involved in the community, if it took feedback, and if they were occasionally a bit more open about things, I think they'd be a very different attitude to them. As it is, they always seem focused mainly on the bottom line, cash before customers - and that garners a lot more hatred than any of their other foibles. I just hope they realise what the problem is before people start abandoning the game. I like this game, I like the way it plays, the fluff and everything, but that won't keep people in the game if they don't like the company.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

I agree with calamari the staff are great in all the stores ive played in regularly
the manchester arndale has an insanely nice set of conversions and scenery.

I think the fluff is fantastic and though i was seriously dissapointed with a few of the horus heresy books "Galaxy in Flames" was bullshit the series has been of a generally fantastic quality. The black library is overall I would say is a success.

Also their is no doubt some gorgeous models and for me i still deeply respect heavy metal, they do a good job in my opinion


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

the fluff and converting ,of course there is also the people who go thats not a space marine its got a massive chainsaw blade going over its head, that really get to me, but its also fun to write stories about so in base they. annoy you so much that you make your own stuff up about it


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

shmabadu said:


> Umm, I find a lot of what I've read here and on the post "10 things I hate about GW" or whatever it was called a bit disconcerting. I've only recently started playing 40k and can say I love the models(they look amazing), the fluff(incredibly imaginative), and the gameplay(very enjoyable). Looking at many of these posts though I think I'm just naive and in a few years I to will be a disgruntled gamer complaining about the inadequacies of 7th edition and how the new codex makes whomever to powerful. Please somebody tell me this isn't the only path to tread.


Yeah I have seen some similarities with this thread and mines as well. My thread got a little out of hand when people started adding all kinds of crazy stuff. But I suppose it happened because I wished the Necrons didint have the WBB rule and people reacted negatively to it. 

But no it's not the only path, my advice is to be chill about alot of things. For example:

1: I stopped caring about high prices because the miniature gaming world is an exclusive market, its not like every day folk head down to their local walmart to buy a box of termies for $10 (6 GBP). I'm sorry but it just doesnt work that way, if dish soap wasnt used by so many people, we would pay $60 (36 GBP) for one half liter bottle! I'm no rich man or anything, I simply buy sparingly. 

2: I overlook alot of the stuff the company makes mistakes with, especially quality control. I know if I were to buy a miscast set of Grey Knights I could easily exchange/return without question, except "Where is your receipt?" :laugh:. And if there arent any Grey Knights available, I could get store credit. 

3: Having trouble with overpowered armies? If you can, start an army what can counter your overpowered foe! I use Tau Empire when I need to gun down someone who is very sensitive to shootyness. And when I need something really fighty, I like to bring out my Black Templars. They can be very effective against puny shooty folk and even other Fightier enemies. 
(For those who read my thread, the reason why I couldent use my Black Templars was they are in the process of a revamping, they should return to battle soon.)


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

maddermax said:


> It certainly isn't the only path. It's just that quite a lot of players get disgruntled with GW, as they get deeper into the game. There is a lack of community involvement when it comes to GW - while individuals in the company may be nice, the company seems to mostly keep itself aloof from the player base. This is rather annoying, especially when you're putting a good chunk of money and time into the game.
> 
> If GW really got more involved in the community, if it took feedback, and if they were occasionally a bit more open about things, I think they'd be a very different attitude to them. As it is, they always seem focused mainly on the bottom line, cash before customers - and that garners a lot more hatred than any of their other foibles. I just hope they realise what the problem is before people start abandoning the game. I like this game, I like the way it plays, the fluff and everything, but that won't keep people in the game if they don't like the company.


The complaints people have about the company all seem to be the same, 


models are too expensive
new codex's are too strong
Too many SM books
GW wants to make a profit

yet looking at the arguments people are making, beyond the SM codex problem (even as a SM player I feel they put out to many of them), its all personal feelings rather then an actual problem.

GW has to keep themselves aloof from the customer because they can't provide what every customer wants all the time. With the vast range of players this game has, from the collector, to the modeler, to the power gamer, GW can't meet every need that every player has.

Cutting the prices on the models? Where would GW make their money?

The new codex's being to strong? Maybe you haven't figured out how to deal with the new units or rules yet, or maybe, just maybe, you suck as a player. I personally don't think the new codex's have been over powered at all, tweaked a bit, but not overpowered.

Too Many SM books? Ok, I like collecting them but lets do some other factions every now and again.

GW wanting to make a profit? I don't see an issue with this, but maybe nobody told me what I'm supposed to be getting from GW for simply having an interest in their games and products. Were they supposed to support their customers for life or something after your initial purchase? Someone please let me know.

I guess what I'm getting at is people have all this hate for GW due to unreal expectations. Would I like GW to listen to what I have to say in regards to the game? Sure, but what kind of feed back could really be given that they don't know? Update Dark Eldar? Update Wh's and GK's? Update Necrons? they know that.

Maybe if the community at large came up with ideas that might make the game more interesting, like making jump packs more expensive but giving units with them an ability to shock troops like they do in the DoW series of games, GW might take it to heart. Instead we demand things that they have said are being worked on or things that are so out there they will never be done anyway.

Except Stella, I think he just likes to hate :grin:


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## techwitch (Nov 6, 2009)

Keeping me successfully addicted to the game despite playing only 2 games total in the 6+ years ive been playing. (woefully small GW community in my area)


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## Franz (May 10, 2009)

I'll tell you something that GW are doing right....

...creating excellent top quality Fantasy gaming content.

Well that's the reason I'm a fan


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Wusword77 said:


> GW has to keep themselves aloof from the customer because they can't provide what every customer wants all the time. With the vast range of players this game has, from the collector, to the modeler, to the power gamer, GW can't meet every need that every player has.


Theres a difference between being kept at a distance for fairness' sake and not being cared for at all. 
First case would be the Space Wolves codex. So many people were demanding so many things, but GW made a fair Codex, thats just as good as it is bad, because there are just as many SW players who quit as those who just started collecting them (at least in my area).
Second case would be the 4th CSM Codex, which reduced Traitor Legions and Renegade Chapters to paint schemes and the occasional Cult Troops and Icons. Dark Apostles? Warsmiths? Cultists? REAL Daemons? Theres none in the 'dex I have.
These were just the first things I could think of, there are many examples for both.

But this thread should be a happy thread, so heres my thumbs up list as a newbie to the hobby:
- Good system, though its best to keep your rule book in arm's reach for safety's sake
- The plastic models look great, I just LOVED the Chaos Spawn sprue, the best I've ever seen so far. Tentacles, you hear me, TENTACLES!!! =D
- I love it that I can order certain bitz. For instance, I can order jump packs that I can put on my CSM, instead of buying the "looks good but thats the only good thing you can say about them" Raptors. Which is a shame, they look great.
- I really like the diversity of most of the sprues, it allows you to customise your unit/vehicle, even in ways GW never thought you would (rapid firing Vindicator, har-har-har). Plastic DP, oh that would be sweet.
- I like the little hints on the back of the boxes where they tell you what colours do you need to make your boys resemble the ones on the box (I really want to know how can you make metal parts look like metal, I'm talking about the Thousand Sons right now).
- I love the names of the colours too, they are much easier to memorise than their real names ("What a beautiful Regal Blue dress!" "WTF?" "Oh, err, I meant deep blue..."). And Tentacle Pink always makes me giggle. :grin: Oh, and Warlock Purple looks soooo greeeeaaaat, not to mention Shining Gold, oh my GOD! =D I think they're worth the money because most of them behave well (though some don't; Golden Yellow anyone?) and its much easier to buy the correct colour and then using and ink of some sort than to mix it. 

Thats all I can think of that wasn't mentioned already.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

The new SW army is bonkers. I won't believe anyone at GW play tested it before finalising it. A power that kills all units in a line 24" long if they fail an I test! That can auto-win vs a Necron army on turn 1 ffs. :angry:

They would get a lot more smiles and a lot more money if they balanced the game and kept all armies current and up-to-date.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

darklove said:


> A power that *kills all units* in a line 24" long if they fail an I test! That can auto-win vs a Necron army on turn 1 ffs. :angry:


its funny when people complain about a power when they actually get what it does wrong, and apparently GW need proof readers, this is probably why they don't have them, units is 1 thing it does not effect, it effects models, not units.

and it would only be auto win if every single figure from every single unit is in a perfect straight line, then its the necron players or any players fault for being dumb


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Retarded power is retarded indeed. I wish they came up with something that smells less like Hollywood. By the way, does it work on Walkers? I'm curious because if that spell can swallow a Defiler then GW really should make it clear how wide is that lousy crack in the earth. And what if I'm on the third floor? 

But still, their Codex is okay, it sucks as much as it owns, IMHO. I tried to help my friend get along with the new Codex but we both failed.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Khorothis said:


> Retarded power is retarded indeed


when people don't read what it does


Khorothis said:


> By the way, does it work on Walkers?


nope, its very clear what it does and does not effect


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## MrFortunato (Aug 26, 2009)

i'd say the models are (on the whole), very good , w/ only FW being better IMHO
some posing issues though, for example, the D.E Hydra... the one from the previous codex would break with the passing of air because it was metal, and i hear the NEW ONE is metal :biggrin:, what madness possessed them to do that?

anyway, i also think 'Eavy Metal is awesome, some of the stuff they produce, pretty good to say the least 

some minor issues w/ 40k though, but i reckon on the whole its alright, i remember earlier in the thread, people were saying about the new army being the dominant one. rubbish IMHO, provided you know what you're doing, you can beat said new army w/ your own supposedly 'crappy' troops...
I must admit though, there's a problem when the same army builds crop up everywhere, w/ IG tank armies being a prime example... :/

Fantasy is going pretty well though , to GWs credit, the new armies they're releasing look awesome , and i hear Beastmen are on the way (wish it was Wood Elves though) :biggrin:


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## cco12 (Jun 30, 2008)

Well being a youngster, I'm happy to see (at least in my store) an accessible community for younger people.) There is actually an eleven year old who was quite popular at his school and actually got about 5 friends into the hobby with them. 
I also like the wealth of interchangable parts. It's very useful for my new army.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> when people don't read what it does


I meant that from a fluff-perspective. Imagine if a Rune Priest tried to make a Daemon World do what he wanted it to do. :laugh:


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## liforrevenge (Oct 6, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> when people don't read what it does


Hey, it can swallow up Marneus Calgar, 2 terminators and a tactical marine in one go. That sounds pretty ridiculous to me.


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## Caledor (Jan 15, 2008)

As a narrative player, I really like the depth of the available fluff, and how not everything is explained (Cypher anyone?). Also the variety and availability of kits. As far as rules are concerned, as long as both me and my opponent are gaming for a good time rather then 'victory at all costs', it allows me to build up a story around the battle which is one of my biggest reasons for staying in the hobby.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

fortunately anything agreed upon by the opponents is okay in a game.
If they are playing space wolves and what to use that spell and you think it is too overpowered, try to make a deal with them. if they want to keep it try to get some advantage for you as well. some orbital strikes or something perhaps? 

granted, tournament games would be different in this aspect.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Khorothis said:


> Theres a difference between being kept at a distance for fairness' sake and not being cared for at all.
> First case would be the Space Wolves codex. So many people were demanding so many things, but GW made a fair Codex, thats just as good as it is bad, because there are just as many SW players who quit as those who just started collecting them (at least in my area).
> Second case would be the 4th CSM Codex, which reduced Traitor Legions and Renegade Chapters to paint schemes and the occasional Cult Troops and Icons. Dark Apostles? Warsmiths? Cultists? REAL Daemons? Theres none in the 'dex I have.
> These were just the first things I could think of, there are many examples for both.


That's further evidence of my point in that they can't please everyone. They make SW codex too strong and players take advantage, too weak and the army becomes a laughing stock. A "fair" codex should be the only type of codex, anything else just tips the scales in favor of one player or the other.
With the CSM codex, it does suck the the fluffly-ness of the dex is now missing but the gameplay balance had to be maintained. Having never played the armies I do not know from personal experence but I've heard that Iron Warriors lists were insane to play against. Any SM army that could field a Lemen Russ would be great. As for the other legions it allowed for a list that could pull from a few army lists. You could talior an army to work against anything you needed it to. Range army that sucks at CC? Deamons and CSM. Need range? throw in a few Russ tanks. Need meat shields to capture objectives, a whole Nurgle army is insane to kill.

My point is someone, somewhere (beyond just Stella) will hate on every new GW product they make. GW can't worry about the haters, as long as the product sells.

As long as GW works on making a fair game I will continue to write in my own house rules to affect things I feel are wrong in the game. Its when an unfair codex is written that I have a problem.


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