# GW suspending production of metal models?



## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Just saw this on one of my extremely rare visits elsewhere. Interesting if true. Mind you, the rise in standard of plastic moulding in recent years might just make this not as inconceivable as it seems.



> Potentially interesting news from over on Frothers (NSFW).
> 
> BattlefieldBerlin
> Just got note from GW that they will stop the production of metal products for at least 3 months. The Sales guys don`t know why, most items are already out of stock, so I guess they stopped productions already some weeks ago...
> ...


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## Shag (Jul 12, 2009)

Please please make it so. Plastic is much easier to work with and glue and mold and carve to my every whim!! moohaha!!!


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

I don't see this being true since ya know....the new grey knights have metal Hq's....and i can still order ALL the metal models for eldar......


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## Chimaera (Feb 1, 2010)

I cannot see metal dropping away soon but I hope it does and the sooner the better in my opinion. Plastic HQ & Elite boxes would be better for many reasons.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> I don't see this being true since ya know....the new grey knights have metal Hq's....and i can still order ALL the metal models for eldar......


The GK models have probably been sitting in a warehouse for months, considering there are only two metal GK models so far, along with a rather large stockpile of the more popular ranges. This seems to be a suspension (if true. Consider the date, after all) of the coming three months, so current models probably won't be affected, but forthcoming releases may be pushed back because of it.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Well, I don't see it being true. If it's going plastic, Games workshop would then have to put it into boxes. Produce packaging, then put it through the system to actually package it, then create shelf space in already overcrowded stores to actually stock them... etc etc.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Heresy Miniatures has been facebooking that the costs of his models are almost doubling because the price of tin just jumped.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Suspending manufacture does not mean anything, for all we know they may do this when prices spike anyway.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

I hope they do raise the price of all of the ranges ... I do not think that GW gets enough of my money, for fucks sake can I just mail them my checks and call it a donation?

I really can not see them dropping metal all together as they just redone several metal minis that I know of. This is something that you pipeline in and work toward. It makes no business sense to spend so much money on making new metal castings to just throw them to the wayside in less than a year. Blows the idea of conservation out of the water faster than hobo on a hot dog.


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

No offence intended towards the OP, but I call bull shit on this one.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

tu_shan82 said:


> No offence intended towards the OP, but I call bull shit on this one.


*Looks at the date*
I see!


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I call this possible, I have heard from other sources that tin prices have soared in the last couple days. Heresy Miniatures has already said he is only casting human or smaller models until the price goes down.


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

Are they going to have a massive clearance sale to get rid of all their old stockpiled metal miniatures, as well?


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

djinn24 said:


> I call this possible, I have heard from other sources that tin prices have soared in the last couple days. Heresy Miniatures has already said he is only casting human or smaller models until the price goes down.


Compared to the money they make out of the models, the price of the material is barely anything.
The price of tin went up by about 60c/kg, and is currently sitting at just under $32/kg.
I am not sure of the average weight of a pewter model, but i would be guessing that they would be making several times the cost of the materials.
Considering the sculpting, molds, etc are already done for their current models, they would be stupid not to keep making them.
The price rise would be cutting into maybe 1-2% of their profits for the model.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Yeah.. I don't think that Gw will ever stop completely with metal models... if simply because they can charge more for characters and specialist units that are metal.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

GW have been actively moving units from metal to plastic since 2006, due to the change in legistlastion lead was removed from electrical solder and manufactures of electronics started using pewter/white metal to solder, this has caused a huge rise in the price of tin as economies like china and india have started to want the electronic consumer gadgets we take for granted,chuck into the mix our need to have a new mobile every 12 months and you have a huge demand on the planets tin reserves.

GW have about broke the back of the project as the largest changes needed to happen with warhammer fantasy which has seen a huge number of kits changed to plastic in recent years with some armies been almost exclusively plastic.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

From what I gleaned from over on a Warseer thread (in Fantasy news&rumours), the metal models are suggested to be going over to a resin-type material. Not the stuff the Forgeworld use, but something a bit softer and more akin to the plastics. No idea if this is actually true, but there appeared to be some support for it as an actual _thing_.
As for price, who knows? 

GFP


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

GW will always make most of the special stuff such as SC and most HQ models metal its the way they get away with charging as much as they do for them. Plastic is gonna be used more for the models en masse that have to be used with an army.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> From what I gleaned from over on a Warseer thread (in Fantasy news&rumours), the metal models are suggested to be going over to a resin-type material. Not the stuff the Forgeworld use, but something a bit softer and more akin to the plastics. No idea if this is actually true, but there appeared to be some support for it as an actual _thing_.
> As for price, who knows?
> 
> GFP


Would be interesting if this was true.

I wont believe it yet though. Resin aint "child-proof" as in drop it into the floor and you need to get a new model. Thats not something I think they want parents complaining about...


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

tu_shan82 said:


> No offence intended towards the OP, but I call bull shit on this one.


So do I. And I really hope that it is bullshit, for other vise I will be forced to paint plastic. :shok:

The thing is, I am better at painting metal models than the plastic ones.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

This isn't out of the realm of possibility.

I don't expect that GW is discontinuing metal models right now, but it wouldn't surprise me to know they are going that way.

The return on investment for plastics looks a lot higher from my perspective. And that increase in cost per kg doesn't seem like a whole lot, but I would imagine that across the scale of their production it multiplied incredibly quickly. I did a quick search and the increase over the last 6 months has been 4 GBP/kg. That's definitely going to cut into their bottom line. Also consider that the models they are making out of pewter tend to be the bigger chunkier ones representing special characters and monsters. I can only speculate on the (average number of models/kg of tin) but if you also factor in the costs for transportation of these metal models, around the world. Add on to that a wholesale pricing scheme that has small regular cost increases built-in, and doesn't allow them to increase prices on the fly as easily (without really upsetting wholesale buyers and therefore players). . . . yeah GW is feeling it.

Additionally, the secondary market for miniatures is much lower on plastics. It is significantly more difficult to strip and repaint plastics, and they're more fragile than pewter. Consider for a moment the number of pewter models being resold over ebay, from as far back as the 80s, compare that the number of plastic beakies, orks, or other early space marines.

I am positive that the sales people at GW realized that the persistence of metal models across 'generations' of gamers (by which I mean sequential waves of people who get into the game) is far higher than plastics, despite that the plastics are increasingly available (and now comparatively cheap).

I'll be grouchy if they come up with a plastic/resin that dissolves/degrades under Simple Green. Purchasing used models on the secondary market (and heavy converting/sculpting) is basically how I can afford to keep working on miniatures.

Whew.

It may not be happening this moment, but it is the shape of things to come.
Bet on it.

Kreuger


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

As I said I see everything moving to plastic as in unit wise. But for things such as SC and I mean the smaller models. I see them still being metal. 

models such as greater daemons and the like I can see those being plastic one day.


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## turel2 (Mar 2, 2009)

Pssyche said:


> Are they going to have a massive clearance sale to get rid of all their old stockpiled metal miniatures, as well?


Whatever happened to GW sales? :dunno:


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Everyone seems to be taking this as GW have stopped making metal minis for good. The OP says they have *suspended* production for at least three months, that doesn't sound very permanent to me. 
Maybe they are having a reshuffle in the factory, checking old molds or just seeing out the price hike in tin, metal minis aren't going anywhere for a while yet.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Why is everyone assuming that 'suspension of metal models' means 'moving to all plastic'? There are many more substances than metal to mould with. 
As for resin not being 'child-proof'... all the resins I've handled bounce a lot better than metal models do, and breaks tend to be clean rather than bends and chips. They only shatter when you throw them with huge force at a solid, hard surface. And virtually all (UK at least) GW stores have carpetted floors. 
Downsides? Much lighter, so slightly more fragile in cases / when handled, and you can't use hairdryers to dry the paint like on metal or plastic. 

But then, this whole thing might well be BS anyway...


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

Well, this is from the Heresy Miniatures March 14 news release: 


> My heart sank: I felt like I'd been just been told that I had an incurable disease of some sort. I had just been given the latest price for the tin alloy we use to cast the models in. remember whewn I did that last price rise in September because metal had risen so much I could no longer afford to absorb the increase? Well, since then, it's gone up another 37%. In fact, it's done 30% of that in the last three months alone. It's insane. The price of 50kgs of metal is now more than my Ford Focus and Craig's 125cc motorbike are worth if you add them together!


And...



> To illustrate, when I started out the metal price was £4.65 a kg plus VAT, it is now £23.75/kg plus VAT, which means in order to get bare minimum profits - and that ignores additional costs such as packaging, labour, etc - on the heavier figures at trade discount (which is the bugger in all of the pricing problems), a figure like a Deathball Ogre needs to be price at £22.00 each.


I'm not sure when he started his business, but that is a significant price increase. And it is some cause for concern, but we can't assume that the same can be said for GW since we don't have access to their records.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

KingOfCheese said:


> Compared to the money they make out of the models, the price of the material is barely anything.
> The price of tin went up by about 60c/kg, and is currently sitting at just under $32/kg.
> I am not sure of the average weight of a pewter model, but i would be guessing that they would be making several times the cost of the materials.
> Considering the sculpting, molds, etc are already done for their current models, they would be stupid not to keep making them.
> The price rise would be cutting into maybe 1-2% of their profits for the model.












Tin has went from 8 to 14 dollars a pound in the last year. now here is a small lesson on what goes into a model.

We have established that tin is 14 dollars a pound so lets say a 1lbs model costs you the consumer $50 at the store. Most people would think that the model maker is making 36 dollars a profit. But remember even at GW mark up the model maker is only getting about 27.50. So now the profit is down to 13.50. Now keep in mind the cost packaging, shipping, advertising, electricity, time to mold, make the sculpts, etc that profit is growing smaller and smaller.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

they should remould the masters and switch to resin.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Games Workshop is not going to switch to resin. Or discontinue its metals. I promise. 

Here's the thing about pewter-- while the price of tin does go up each year, it's still the single most reliable material out there. Resin is a huge pain in the ass to work with (from a production standpoint), and the material cost is STILL higher than white metal. Resin is fairly oil-intensive to produce as plastics go, and while it's got the highest potential for fine detail, it's also outrageously prone to being miscast. Anyone who's bought Forge World knows what I'm talking about-- it's not bad quality control, it's just the nature of resin. 

Now, have there been fewer and fewer metal models produced over the last five years? Sure. There are a couple reasons for that. One is that customers prefer plastic, and Games Workshop realized they could sell a box of plastic models for the same price as the metal models and reduce their overhead. Case and point, Empire Greatswords. Also, with the ability to put more onto sprues, they could package more options in each box, eliminating the need to have blisters like "Space Marine with Meltagun." Finally, it's a hell of a lot easier to steal a blister than it is to steal a box. Blisters are an obnoxiously high-theft package, and putting things in boxes that could potentially go into blisters (such as the metal daemon princes that preceded the current model) helps reduce losses from theft.

Games Workshop wouldn't necessarily be remiss in making resin models, however. They've done it before-- the Cities of Death barricades, for example, are resin. There are some things, like that, that don't make sense to make in any other medium. Expanding their range of tabletop accessories (like the barricades; making army-specific objective markers and whatnot) wouldn't actually be a terrible thing. But I don't expect to see Space Marine Chaplains, Chaos Obliterators, Commissars, etc in resin anytime soon. If I'm wrong, I'll eat a sock, and post pictures. That's how sure I am.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

The Son of Horus said:


> Games Workshop is not going to switch to resin. Or discontinue its metals. I promise.
> 
> ...*snip*...
> 
> But I don't expect to see Space Marine Chaplains, Chaos Obliterators, Commissars, etc in resin anytime soon. If I'm wrong, I'll eat a sock, and post pictures. That's how sure I am.


We'll hold you to that :grin:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I was talking about heresy miniatures, GW can stand to buy and charge what they want as they are top of the pile and the models they use are for games systems, indie companies without rule sets are on the coat tails of the large companies anyway, so they need to adapt to survive, something similar happen back in the 90's when lead was banned from toy soldiers and GW and the rest were forced to start using white metal, alot of mail order indies/small manufacturers that produced roleplaying models and wargame stuff folded because they couldnt stand the increase in material costs and change molds and techniques (i think white metal has a higher melting temp if memory serves).This was before FW and GW introduced resin and plastics to the warhammer faithful on mass, back then plastic was a naughty word and its use was frowned apon outside of tanks.
Same is happening here it seems, the indies need to shift to plastics or resin quick sharp or be at the mercy of the price of metal that keeps going up and always will while its used in electronics.


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## Shag (Jul 12, 2009)

MaidenManiac said:


> Would be interesting if this was true.
> 
> I wont believe it yet though. Resin aint "child-proof" as in drop it into the floor and you need to get a new model. Thats not something I think they want parents complaining about...


True, but I don't really see little kids as a huge part of the market. I could be wrong, but from what I have seen everybody that plays is old and fat or a teenager.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

The Son of Horus said:


> Here's the thing about pewter-- while the price of tin does go up each year, it's still the single most reliable material out there. Resin is a huge pain in the ass to work with (from a production standpoint), and the material cost is STILL higher than white metal.


but we are not talking about it going up a little bit, we are talking about it almost doubling in the last year alone, I could pull up the 5 year line. Hell at the rate its going up I can almost smelt some of my models and sell them for more in raw materials then I paid for them.


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## H0RRIDF0RM (Mar 6, 2008)

I spoke with my friend who owns a chain of gamestores in america and he confirmed that metal is out of production or at least thats what his distributer said. I'm a little sore over this because I ordered 15 Khymeras...


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Oh no. Not good. Metal has a feel to it that plastic and resin lack....


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

hungryugolino said:


> Oh no. Not good. Metal has a feel to it that plastic and resin lack....


I would suggest that most modellers and converters would prefer to work with plastic or resin than metal, though (in fact wasn't there a poll thread somewhere on Heresy on this very issue last year?). I know there are things I would buy if they were plastic or resin that I would shy away from if they were metal, simply because I could do so much more with them if they were in more workable materials. 

_*grumbles about continuing lack of plastic Plaguebearers*_


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

Next question is what do they get replaced with?

Plastic kits like the empire wizard that let you build multiple HQ's maybe...


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Yeah I'd head about this from a pal of mine who seems to have his ear to the ground. 

To be honest, I don't really mind things moving to plastic over metal. it always didn my head in years ago that the plastic miniatures looked naff compared to metal ones. Nowadays the detail on the plastic ones is stunning and it's pretty hard to tell what is plastic and what isn't when you compare the new ones to the old ones.

The new kits that let you construct miniatures with a heap of options leaves you with the choice of customising every model easily, rather than every marine player having the same medic, the same librarians or whatever (not even sure there is a plazzy librarian but you understand what I mean), leading to more interesting armies.

At the moment I'm aiming to have my SW army entirely plastic (and resin... I admit, forgeworld absorbs part of my wages...), as I've already made my HQ from parts in the battleforce, because let's face it, there's hundreds of Ragnar's battle company and his metal mini is dogshit. I chose Bran Redmaw and just built him from scratch.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Speaking from first-hand experience, GW has no-where near the facilities required (at present, especially in a recession) to move every model they make into plastic. They would need to expand their properties by a factor of three simply to house enough machines to do so, and each and every mould for a plastic frame costs in the region of 5 figures in £.


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## Chimaera (Feb 1, 2010)

I would rather they moved to a plastic HQ box than to resin. It would also allow for more variation and creativity when building HQ choices. As for other metals simply turn them in to plastic boxes also. It would be awesome.


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

The ONLY reason GW have not moved everything to plastic before now is cost. Metal is cheap to work with because the moulds are rubber and when one becomes un-useable they can fairly cheaply replace it. 

What you tend to find nowadays is that only models that have a relatively low turnover (i.e they don't sell many of them compared to other lines) are produced in metal.

Plastics on the other hand cost a phenomenal amount to produce because the tooling for the moulds needs to be micrometer fine. This is offset by the fact they will sell shit-loads of these lines and so recoup the outlay for the moulds relatively quickly. This is one of the reasons I felt they made a major faux-pas with the Storm Raven, which is why the store mangers are pushing them so hard and rules will eventually allow their use in all Marine armies.

So as long as the cost of producing metal models stays below the cost of producing plastic models they will stay with us...which sucks. As a converter I much prefer the flexibility of plastic...but then again, I have been working with metal models for so long that they don't hold any terrors for me. 

As to the possible reasons for a temporary suspension, it could be anything from running down surplus stocks to supply problems.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Rumors floating around facebook is that GW is moving from metal to resin.


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

From BoL's (Not the most authoritative source, but another source none the less):

_We've been hearing mumblings for weeks now about the final days of GW metal miniatures being around the corner. It would seem that these were not just an ill-advised April fools joke...

We are now hearing from a variety of sources that GW is making it known to merchants that the entire range of metal kits (both blisters and boxed sets) will no longer be available for order. 

Existing stocks on shelves is basically all that will be available until the longer term future of these kits is made known. Anything past that information is mere speculation (resin, or other materials for example) at this time.

I'm mixed about this news. In the very short term, certain armies will be affected more than others by supply issues as the metal kits are pulled. In the medium to long term, its probably a good thing, as the price of metal has been skyrocketing on the commodities markets. At some point, this was inevitable, and Games Workshop probably buys the most metal in bulk in the wargames industry, so they would have the most to gain by switching over to another material first. From a personal gamer point of view, it brings a little tear to my eye to think that after over two decades in the hobby, the last metal miniature from GW may have already been cast._

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/04/games-workshop-news-metal-on-way-out.html


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

It's pretty much confirmed now.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

http://www.beastsofwar.com/sci-fi-wargaming/games-workshop-move-resin-trouble/

Here is another article on it.


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> http://www.beastsofwar.com/sci-fi-wargaming/games-workshop-move-resin-trouble/
> 
> Here is another article on it.


Hmm, definitely food for thought. They are going to have to invest a shit load of money to expand/emulate the ForgeWorld operation to enable them to produce on the scales required.

That can, unhappily, only mean higher prices for the punters!


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Cypher871 said:


> That can, unhappily, only mean higher prices for the punters!


Name which change that didnt....


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Cypher871 said:


> Hmm, definitely food for thought. They are going to have to invest a shit load of money to expand/emulate the ForgeWorld operation to enable them to produce on the scales required.
> 
> That can, unhappily, only mean higher prices for the punters!


Why would they have to expand the FW operation or emulate it? It's not that much of a switch to change the metal moulding facilities to produce resin models instead. They already have the factory facilities, they would just need to adapt them and the moulds to handle a new medium. If anything, resin is a slightly safer material to handle as it's melting point is much lower...


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

SilverTabby said:


> Why would they have to expand the FW operation or emulate it? It's not that much of a switch to change the metal moulding facilities to produce resin models instead. They already have the factory facilities, they would just need to adapt them and the moulds to handle a new medium. If anything, resin is a slightly safer material to handle as it's melting point is much lower...


FW's stuff is all hand-cast mate...to produce on the scale they would need to supply all the shops would take an automated process...plus they would have to install new vac-chambers and generally expand their capabilities.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Not sure why people are loosing there minds over this, so they are taking a break while prices are high and sales are low(assuming its true and not just a rumour), they will pick up again in summer ready for the busy period post summer up to christmas and new year, stock they have on hand will take them through or they will cast to order if they get a rush, it hardly means they are going to change to resin or convert everything to plastic at the drop of a hat, they have been converting the range of products to plastic for 5 years because of the price of metal, its not a new thing.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

SilverTabby said:


> Why would they have to expand the FW operation or emulate it? It's not that much of a switch to change the metal moulding facilities to produce resin models instead. They already have the factory facilities, they would just need to adapt them and the moulds to handle a new medium. If anything, resin is a slightly safer material to handle as it's melting point is much lower...


Resin is a 2 part substance, not something you melt...

Metal molds are 100% different, they use centrifuge molds for making the models while resin is poured and vacuum sealed. Now resin molds can be used 30-100 times before they have to be remade which is a pain in the ass process.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

2-part epoxy resin does indeed get poured and vac-sealed, but it's not the only type of resin out there. Given the miscast ratio on resins, you'd need one that can be easily recycled and just put back into new figures again. 

FW produces on a relatively small scale. Their casting is mostly hand-done. The metals factory does things bigger, but it's still guys at machines, and the machines can be adapted / swapped for ones that run on an industrial scale. The space in the factory is there, and other companies make things out of resins / equivalent materials at an industrial level. 

The differences between GW mainline production and FW's smallscale stuff are so huge as to not really be comparable. It is unlikely to be anything like how FW works...


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

I really don't think that metal is gonna be completely phased out. Now I can see many of the larger models being redone in plastic not resin. Resin is too toxic and GW's sales will greatly be affected because many of the younger buyers will not be able to buy such things due to well parents. 

Models like Special Char. and the like will prolly wind up being the only metal minis around. The reason for this that these would cost less to produce and most of these would wind up being order only so to reduce the amout that has to be produced which would more than likely save GW money.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

TheSpore said:


> Models like Special Char. and the like will prolly wind up being the only metal minis around. The reason for this that these would cost less to produce and most of these would wind up being order only so to reduce the amout that has to be produced which would more than likely save GW money.


I think the recent GK release would indicate this. There's only two metal minis in the range, and with all the talk of switching to resin, maybe FW will start producing IC models. There wouldn't be a huge difference in the price. They'd have to start making the models available at GW outlets though.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

*Went to a local store and the owner confirmed that metal is going to be discontinued according to his GW reps. According to the owner, the reps even told him not to order anymore metal minis, stating that what they had left is it. According to the owner, this probobly means they would be melting down all the models and selling the metal as the prices of tin have risen. This is the only reason that would make sense, if they weren't melting down the minis, why would they tell the owner of the independent retail store not to order any more metal minis, as GW will no longer be filling any orders for metal minis to independent retailers? They are re-doing all molds, and replacing the metal with a resin mix similiar to what Privateer Press uses, according to the GW Reps.

Hope this helps to disolve the arguments and speculation as to whether its true or not. Either way, GW will be making the announcment within the next month or two, waiting to get rid of most metal products in stores first.*


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## traitor_dice (Apr 1, 2011)

The next few months ought to be interesting.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

*Games Workshop: First Batch of Removed Metal Codes*

I found this posted on E-figures Distribution Wordpress blog. If you want to know specifically what metal figures are going to no longer be available, this seems to be as comprehensive a list as possible.



> Today we received a list from Games-Workshop of codes that will no longer be available for restock through Distribution. These may or may not continue to be available directly from Games Workshop. We assume this is just the first batch as it does not contain all of metal codes in the current range. Although we were told these codes would be available while supplies last we have decided to remove them from our site immediately.
> 
> 
> Short Description
> ...


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

Wow... That would really put a damper on a lot of armies, atm. Heck, all of the Eldar elites, 1/4 the troops, 3/4 of the fast attack, and a huge chunk of the HQ's would be gone. That would only leave one of the main Aspects available, and effectively only make one Craftworld viable. Still... Others have it just as bad.

I think an increase in people converting models is on its way.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

there is a massive difference between not supplying to indie's and stopping production of metals, idies get all products at a significant discount, a rise in the price of white metal would erode the gw profit margin,also its more likely as metals have a higher RRP people are more likely to turn to Indies who have a discount to buy metal models,if i needed aspect warriors i wouldnt buy them from gw, sounds more likely that GW are restricting the metal range to its own stores and direct orders, that way they can control the demand on metal stocks.

GW cant stop producing metal models when codex's require them, eldar army is a prime example,no one would field an eldar army with zero metal, Orks,tau,marines and possibly some others could be fielded without any metal, but eldar dont have the plastic kits capable of conversion and a massive amount of the grey knights and dark eldar are produced in metal.

sounds like the reps or indie owners have "misinterptreted" the GW memo, reps/GW HQ probably decided it would be better to blame production stopping because of price rather than just coming out and saying its because indies offer a discount and GW loose sales,not to mention that could be seen as GW price fixing.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> sounds like the reps or indie owners have "misinterptreted" the GW memo, reps/GW HQ probably decided it would be better to blame production stopping because of price rather than just coming out and saying its because indies offer a discount and GW loose sales,not to mention that could be seen as GW price fixing.


I could believe that it's GW and others trying to save face and that GW would limit metals to their own stores. (This is the reason I plan on going to my FLGS next week and picking up models I've had my eye on--the store still has a 10% sale going on.) Thing is though that the blog I quoted had earlier mentions, shorter lists of codes, and one of them does mention that GW is shifting focus as a reason for these metal codes and such going OOP.

This would really put the affiliates in a bind though since they'd be able to stock the plastic, but not the metal?


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> there is a massive difference between not supplying to indie's and stopping production of metals, idies get all products at a significant discount, a rise in the price of white metal would erode the gw profit margin,also its more likely as metals have a higher RRP people are more likely to turn to Indies who have a discount to buy metal models,if i needed aspect warriors i wouldnt buy them from gw, sounds more likely that GW are restricting the metal range to its own stores and direct orders, that way they can control the demand on metal stocks.
> 
> GW cant stop producing metal models when codex's require them, eldar army is a prime example,no one would field an eldar army with zero metal, Orks,tau,marines and possibly some others could be fielded without any metal, but eldar dont have the plastic kits capable of conversion and a massive amount of the grey knights and dark eldar are produced in metal.
> 
> sounds like the reps or indie owners have "misinterptreted" the GW memo, reps/GW HQ probably decided it would be better to blame production stopping because of price rather than just coming out and saying its because indies offer a discount and GW loose sales,not to mention that could be seen as GW price fixing.


 
While you make good points, the indies I have heard this news from do not sell their GW minis at discounted prices. I have 3 independent stores within driving distance, only one of which sells at 20% off. The owner I talked to sells his at full price, and I am still waiting on an email reply from the other owner who sells at full. While it could have been "misinterpreted", the reps do not say that GW is stopping the production of the models that are cast in metal, they are simply converting over to plastic boxes similiar to the Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour box. The GW reps claim to be converting over to a resin mix, which the owner stated would be similar to the Privateer Press resins. It won't be the same as the FW, but it will be of good enough quality to capture the detail the metail models possess. 

So in short, these models that are required for armies will not be discontinued, just converted to a resin. GW isn't discontinuing the stocking of metal models to independant stores to save money, as they have claimed that they will try to fill any independent stores orders of specific individual metal minis if requested by a cutsomer, but only if GW "has it in stock, as we will be clearing out our warehouses and stopping production of metals", which the owner has taken to believe means they will be melting down their metals in warehouses. So for now, all independent stores will only have those metal models available that are in stock in that store. Customers can make a request for the inde to order specific metal models, but there is a good chance GW will not have them in stock.

Also, Independent Retailers buy their supply from GW before selling it at 20% off, meaning GW isn't losing money, it is limiting what the inde stores make financially, but the trade off is better competition for sales against GW stores. If GW were losing money by inde stores selling at 20% off, they wouldn't beat around the bush and do something as drastic as state that the production of metals is coming to a hault, that is poor business management and I couln't see a multi-million dollar company making an elaborate scheme so as to avoid telling independent retailers that they shouldn't sell at 20% off. It would be much easier to give independent stores an ultimatum or rise their prices for goods when supplying inde stores, thus forcing the inde stores to sell at full price to make up for the deficit.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Well hopefully the resin part is true as it would make converting so very much easier.....And i could make a better Azkaellion out of a resin dante then i did my metal one....


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## jams (Sep 19, 2009)

I really hope that the sort out the release agent issue if they do convert the metals to this resin mix as I cant see little timmy spending the time and effort on thorough cleaning and prep. I can see him getting upset when the paint peels off though


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

jams said:


> I really hope that the sort out the release agent issue if they do convert the metals to this resin mix as I cant see little timmy spending the time and effort on thorough cleaning and prep. I can see him getting upset when the paint peels off though


From what I've been told the resin isn't the same mix as the stuff they use for FW product, so it isn't as brittle and shouldn't have to be cleaned. 

I have to run into my local GW store tomorrow, and I've become 'friends' with most of the employees there as well as the manager, so I will have to ask them what the scoop is on all this. At the moment all I know is what I've been able to research and get comments on from the owner of an inde retailer. Bitsandkits may be dead on, but I find it hard to believe after talking to the owner of my local store, hes a pretty straightforward guy.


EDIT: Talked to one of the employees at my local GW store about fantasy and slipped in a question about the metal rumour, stating that the owner of an independent store claims that he received word from reps that metal models are being made into resin, he got pretty flustered and immediately excused himself to talk to another customer (who had already said he didn't need help when I first walked in), and I was planning on buying something, soooo while this could just be me looking for signs that this rumour is true, it seemed pretty wierd that a GW employee would walk away from someone looking to purchase some new minis. So I left without buying shit  no info on the rumours, no money for your commission. I did notice that about 60% of the GW blisters were out of stock.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Im wondering if this is localised to the US? as none of the people i talk to about these things who are in the know in the UK have had anything from GW to say anything about this and our order lists havent changed , though metal has been dropping off for the last three months and moving to direct only, though that isnt unusual due to the size of the range and making space for plastics, eldar for example lost a few blisters but we then got DE blisters to replace them.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

This is not a critisism of anyone or pointing fingers, just an observation.

I find it amusing how, if a rumour is reasonable, with multiple people backing it up and siting multiple good sources, if it's something folk don't like the sound of they will rubbish it and deny it until it's forced upon them by grim reality. 

However, provide the smallest and flimsiest of whimsical rumours for an army they like, and no matter how outlandish the concept they will cling to it, big it up and repeat it ad nauseum until they are convinced it's true, then whinge and complain when it's debunked by grim reality that they were somehow betrayed by GW...

:grin:


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

SilverTabby said:


> However, provide the smallest and flimsiest of whimsical rumours for an army they like, and no matter how outlandish the concept they will cling to it, big it up and repeat it ad nauseum...


I know exactly what you mean; I've spent the last four weeks casting the new Squat models at GW HQ but no bugger believes me when I tell them about it.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

This is the best way I can describe the rumour mill, GWs ability to write codicies are also pretty similar... maybe there is a connection...


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

Well...apart from stating the obvious...maybe the Tsunami wasn't such a bad thing after all. :shok:


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

It could very well be a mix of fact and speculation. The owner of the store that I talked to could have indeed recieved word that GW would no longer fill orders to metal models, unless specially ordered by the customer. This, and the fact that the GW store I went to had a lot of empty wall space where metal minis should be could simply be signs that GW has decided to make metal miniatures available through their website and special orders only. After hearing that orders wouldn't be filled, the owner could have added some of his own speculation into the mix, and from there it got blown out of proportion.

However, it still bothers me that the GW employee got so damn flustered when I asked him. I was planning on buying shit, the other guy didn't need help, yet at the mention of metals moving to resin he immediately left, and didn't return to talk to me, though there were only 3 of us customers browsing around in there. The employee just jumped onto the computer and started fucking around with god knows what. But again, could be specualtion, could be fact, we will just have to wait and see.

I say everyone with local stores, go ask. Would be interesting to see the different responses from different states, and countries other than the US.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Got a reply from the area rep today, they are not aware of this situation, but they have promised to let me know if anything changes.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Heres something that I found:



> I also keep hearing more and more on Games Workshop moving away from metal and over to a resin similar to Mantic or Privateer press. What gives this a bit more credability is that they recently discontinued several important metal kits -
> 
> 
> The following codes are now out of print and no longer available.
> ...


And the link

Donno what hes talking about though, I can still order these minis off the GW site. He didn't really give any evidence to support the claim.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I was in my local GW today, and the staffer said it was only rumour. The reduction in metal models is more to do with GW's desire to expand the possiblities of plastic kits, as seen in the huge range of options available in recent releases starting with the SWs, followed by DE, BA and GK. With more options available on a sprue, it makes metal models less necessary. He made a good point.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Due to NDC in contracts, any Staffer you ask is required to say it is only rumour until they are allowed to confirm it.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Angelus Censura said:


> Heres something that I found:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thats the list of items no longer available to order for indie suppliers/stores, it is not a list of discontiude items and its not all metal items either....
we get a list like that almost every month, sometimes its stuff moved to direct only, sometimes its because of new kits and sometimes its because the kits get new packaging or are resized like the recent Orc regiment for warhammer fantasy or the Cadian box.
totally normal and in no way adds weight to the idea that GW are either suspending production or switching to resin.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

I went into my local indie today and he pretty much confirmed the metal was being driven out, as Warmachine are already resiny type material GW are just catching up.

He has been told that metal is being driven out but he doesn't know what to we can only assume a resin


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