# Dealing with Grey Knights



## ChaosPhenom (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi,

I just wanted to get peoples opinions on how to deal with Grey Knights, the list I see at my club is basically footslogging i.e. Master or Libby, two terminator squads, 2 strike squads, a purifier squad and vindicare and normally 3 psybolt autocannon dreads.

he pretty much packs as many psycannons and psybolts on everything and his army can pump out a huge amount of firepower and he runs halberds on everything which doesn't help.

I am just curious as to how others would approach this and what sort of Chaos army you'd take??

Thanks all!:victory:


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

There's two ways to deal with Termis. High Str, low AP weapons (Lascannons and Meltas work pretty good) Or tons of little shots.

Seeing has he has Halberds I'd stay out of CC as he'll probably wipe you out before you get to attack back.


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## Ryao (Oct 6, 2010)

WHat army do you play?


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## Loki1416 (Apr 20, 2010)

Range range range. Keep as far away as possible while laying down as many long range shots as you can. Storm bolters and psycannons are 24" range so take weapons that put you outside of that where you can shoot and he cant. The dreads have a longer range, 48", Landraiders with TLLC's will take them down. Yeah, he can put shots on the LR but it's only STR 8 so would have to roll 6's to glance. Odds are in your favor there. A suicide squad that can DS near the vindicare is the best way to take him out before he can do too much damage. Just dont let his stuff get in CC range unless you want it too because you know you can take it out.


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## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

I would go for the standard anti-MEQ units, just bear in mind that GK's are happily bristling with halberds, and so units that remove their save are useful indeed. Despite having 3 Psyflemen, i would still go with massed rhinos, because armour saturation will protect you. As long as you stay the hell away from CC, spamming plasma and melta, you should fare ok against them. Their CCW is much much worse than the Psybolters/Psycannons. I could see mass Tsons being effective against them, particularly against the GKSS and Purifiers, but i don't play CSM myself.

Against the termies, i would also try to hit them with AP2 at range (vindis strike me as best for this job), because they may murder you in CC (and have better invuns courtesy of swords or sth).

As to how to kill a vindicare with CSM (or any other army IMO) - CC or Massed S6-7 (autocannon havocs might be ideal here, and also might be useful to trade with psyflemen) - sit at max range and force him to be instagibbed.

In terms of IG, i would ideally go: Russes, Russ demolishers, Melta/Plasmavets, Medusae to deal with GK quickly, whilst also murdering them outside their optimal killzone.

Tbh if the psyflemen are too annoying, then rob them of their advantage and play a foot army (or have an LR as loki mentioned), and they lose their optimal target (tanks).

Antonius


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## CPT Killjoy (Feb 15, 2012)

It sounds to me like he is running with an elite unit army. So, as has already been stated, you can do one of two things. One, lots and lots of little shots. Two, heavy fire power to combat it. Do not get into CC with them, as you’re not going to come out on top (as I’m sure your aware). By the way, what points level do you play at? Not taking points into account, here is what I would bring:

2x units of 5x chosen with 4 plasma guns IoCG – Infiltrate them and shoot in turn one, or use them to outflank him later in the game. 4 x 2 plasma guns magically appearing is not going to be fun for him.

2x 5 havocs with either 2x auto cannons or 2x lascannons (both units should have the same loadout, don’t bring one of each) in rhinos – Keep them in the Rhinos for as long as you can. Get them into position and create firing lanes. Since you can shoot 2 weapons a turn from the Rhinos, park and shoot. I would say you could through a missle launcher in their if you have the points, but understand that it will only be used if the rhino is destroyed. The lascannons or autocannons should be your main focus, and you should place the units accordingly.

2x Termicide squads. These are elite/tank killers. DS them in and go after one unit each. They almost always (90%) work. They are good to take out one target a piece. After that, they’ll die, but that’s the point. (In case you don’t know. Termicide squads are 3x Terminators with 3x combi meltas and one chainfist)

These units are in addition to what you are already bringing. Again, if you could post a list, and a point cap, I could help you with it.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

MSU CSM in Rhinos with Meltaguns
As many Obliterators as humanly possible
MSU Plague Marines in Rhinos with Plasma Guns
Sorcerors in the Rhinos with Lash
3-man Terminator squads with Combi-Meltas.

Profit. You can take more Rhinos full of Plague Marines than he can bring down in a turn or even two turns, with Terminators being fairly reliable in bringing down the Psyflemen. Kill off the Librarian squad as a priority with Plasma Cannons and Plasma Guns, after that's achieved you can start to have fun and games with Lash and Plasma Cannons

Midnight


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

I would just go for as many things which take away saves and have a decent range e.g lascannon even though it has ony one shot its a start. Then take terminators with combi-meltas and as midnight said, a lot of plague marines


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## ChaosPhenom (Mar 19, 2012)

Thanks peeps the points limit is 1800 and i am running Chaos, i have quite a lot so can field everything.


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## ChaosPhenom (Mar 19, 2012)

Also which do you think would be best Chaos or Dark Angels (mix wing) as i have quite a few TH & SS termies.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

> I could see mass Tsons being effective against them, particularly against the GKSS and Purifiers, but i don't play CSM myself.


My tsons fare better against GK than my regular cookie cutter list does.



> MSU CSM in Rhinos with Meltaguns
> As many Obliterators as humanly possible
> MSU Plague Marines in Rhinos with Plasma Guns
> Sorcerors in the Rhinos with Lash
> 3-man Terminator squads with Combi-Meltas.


Or just do that. Can't suggest much outside of it. MSU plagues with plasma will probably be the most effective, with termicides to pop the psyrifles


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## ChaosPhenom (Mar 19, 2012)

So what about 2 sorcerers with lash, a chosen squad with 5 plasma in rhino, 2 plague marine squads with 2 plasma guns in rhino, a blight drone which i regularly use (its av12 fast skimmer with a s8 ap3 large blast 36" range gun) a dread with plasma cannon and two 3 man oblit squads and 1 havoc squad with 4 missile launchers.


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## ChaosPhenom (Mar 19, 2012)

i could drop the chosen for a unit of 1k sons?


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## CPT Killjoy (Feb 15, 2012)

Sounds solid. I wouldn't switch out the chosen for 1k-sons against this army. The chosen marines are going to be more effective here I think. I would recommend that you drop the chosen down to 4 plasma guns and add an Icon though (Points wise, 5 plasma in one squad is a lot). Plus if you add the icon, you can more accurately drop in terminators should you chose to bring them. On that topic, I would drop the havoc squad and add a unit of terminators (combimelta x3 with chain fist) to take care of any hard-to-kill targets that are kept away from your heavy weapons (Oblits can kill almost anything, IF they can get LOS). If you have extra points after these changes, I would add another small squad of oblits (1 or 2).


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

:goodpost:

Five Plasmas, as said, is overkill. Drop down to four or even three.

Termicide is good at killing those Psyflemen, use it to your advantage. However, adding Icons to get them in isn't a great plan - ideally they're coming in turn two, when the rest of your army isn't in range for Icons (not within range of the Psyflemen, anyway). Add in a Power Fist on the Terminators instead, to stop the Psyfleman charging you if it survives the initial Melta-strike (more likely than you think when you scatter, and quite plausible with Shrouding) and holding you up until it's power-armoured brothers arrive to help it out.

Midnight


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## Loki1416 (Apr 20, 2010)

If it's a good GK player, since they know you'll be DS'ing into the area of their psyflemen they'll have a zone of warp quake up. Also cant forget that all armor that they have (GK's) has the Aegis rule, so all your LD tests to target them with spells will have a lower LD so that does lower the threat of your Sorcerers, even if it is by 1. And ven. dreads are -4(?). And not talking about list tailoring but just pointing this out: If they have Dark Excommunication on anything then Daemonic Gifts will be useless.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Loki1416 said:


> If it's a good GK player, since they know you'll be DS'ing into the area of their psyflemen they'll have a zone of warp quake up. Also cant forget that all armor that they have (GK's) has the Aegis rule, so all your LD tests to target them with spells will have a lower LD so that does lower the threat of your Sorcerers, even if it is by 1. And ven. dreads are -4(?). And not talking about list tailoring but just pointing this out: If they have Dark Excommunication on anything then Daemonic Gifts will be useless.


All GK Dreads, ven or not, have Reinforced Aegis the -4. Note too with the Dreads it is an area effect rather than the normal Aegis that only applies to the target squad.


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## Loki1416 (Apr 20, 2010)

Didnt have my codex to hand, knew it was something like that. Thanks Magpie!


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

You're welcome.

Oh and by the way, you don't "deal with" Grey Knights, they deal with YOU.:threaten:


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## Loki1416 (Apr 20, 2010)

LoL. I play them, havnt played against them. But I can see how to beat them just from how I play.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Fair enough, in fact that is the best with any army. Don't learn how to win with them, learn how to beat them so you know what you enemy will be trying to do.


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## Loki1416 (Apr 20, 2010)

Exactly. I sat there with my codex, before I ever played a game, and tried to figure out what I'd do to stop this unit or that unit. Really helped me get a feel for how my op's would try to stop it.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

So how do you deal with LasPlas spam ?


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## Loki1416 (Apr 20, 2010)

Hide. LOL. Only thing I came up with is cover and out flank.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

How about the Plasma Syphon? Reduces one of the threats.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

In response to the original question, the simple fix for Grey Knights is a combination of ordinance and clever use of cover. It also helps to go first. If you're playing Chaos Space Marines, a trio of Vindicators will sort things out surprisingly well. Just keep them in cover for the first turn (or out of line of sight), and start clearing the infantry. You can put the pressure on early by deep-striking a big unit of Terminators with an Icon of Khorne and some power fists in the middle of their line, and use them to just be a general nuisance and provide an immediate threat over what the Vindicators appear to be. The Icon of Khorne maximizes your attacks per model, and the fists ensure you're killing what you hit-- if the Grey Knights all have halberds, you're going second anyway in close combat, so you might as well make your hits count. 

As Troops go, Plague Marines are a solid choice, since they can actually walk across the field and weather all the shooting that a Grey Knight army is going to throw at you. Plasma guns are a popular choice for Plague Marines-- and while normally, I prefer meltaguns over plasma guns just in general, Grey Knights are one of the few armies you can face where having plasma guns is really handy. You can have three in a squad-- the Aspiring Champion can have a pistol, and two Plague Marines can have plasma guns. 

Another possibility is one or more suicide squad(s) of Chosen that Outflank with several meltaguns and try to slag the dreadnoughts when they come on. It's not the greatest plan, but it's something, if you don't care for anything above.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

As a note, not too sure it's pertinent to the convo but the new Necrons are pretty good against GK, having played against them lately and had them wipe the floor with me. 

I think with GK you have to consider that they will either be running a psyback, psyflman or specialist (mordrak etc) list, in which case each has it's weakness.


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## ChaosPhenom (Mar 19, 2012)

Thanks guys I was going to run my chosen in a 7 man squad with 5 plasmas and an IOCG but you think it would be best to run them as a 5 man squad with 4 plasma gun and then I could drop the havoc squad and take a 3 man terminator suicide squad and more oblits


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## CPT Killjoy (Feb 15, 2012)

That's solid right there. I would recommend you try that out, and then see how it works. Then you can revisit the list if you find a gap in it when you play. I think you should do very well with the list you posted though (plus the amendments). Good luck to you man!


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## ChaosPhenom (Mar 19, 2012)

Cheers I will let you all know how it goes


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Luckily, Chaos Space Marines have no Daemonic Gifts available to them.

Still an uphill battle if you both take good lists.

Midnight


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## CPT Killjoy (Feb 15, 2012)

Up-hill= Fun, and, sometimes annoying... But what fun would it be if everyone had BA or Crons' (though the latter really deserved the update they finally got). Hope he takes it home though, we can always use some more Glory for Chaos!


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Magpie_Oz said:


> How about the Plasma Syphon? Reduces one of the threats.


You deal with it by knowing your opponent is not a retard and will not take it.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

mcmuffin said:


> You deal with it by knowing your opponent is not a retard and will not take it.


Love your work


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Plasma Syphons can only be taken by 1 model in the Grey Knight army (Xenos Inquisitors), Also they're terrible.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Why is that ?


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Only one model can take them, a not very good HQ choice, and they only work with 12". So you've wasted an HQ slot and points on the off chance your opponent has Plasma Weapons. It has more effect if your opponent is Tau but they then can just detonate your face from slightly further away.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Still don't get why if the remedy to GK's is LasPlas why something that has a serious impact on the "Plas" bit is seen as being a retarded choice.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Why would you drive your Las/Plas within 12" of someone with a Syphon?


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## CPT Killjoy (Feb 15, 2012)

You wouldn't. You shouldn't be within 12" with plasma weapons in general anyway (and if you are, you can just assualt). The only real thing this rule effects is the plasma pistol, and even then, you're looking at possibly 2, at most, in any given situation. In otherwords, there are much better things to take, which is why most GK players won't take it. Which is also why las/plas is the answer when playing them.

EDIT: Which is all in agreement with Aramoro


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Aramoro said:


> Why would you drive your Las/Plas within 12" of someone with a Syphon?


Yes and that is the key to it, thanks for that.

Of course you could always move your syphon to the plasma.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Lasplas is not the effective counter to grey knights, it is useful, yes, but it is not the answer to defeating an army. This edition relies on the use of lots of non armour-ignoring shots to kill units rather than the use of few high quality shots. The best solution to grey knights is to get them out of their tanks early, their range is a minor weakness, so use it to your advantage. Grey knights are best dealt with on a unit by unit basis: Destroy a tank, kill the contents, and so on. Obviously this changes depending on the game, but by isolating and eliminating individual units the army begins to lose its ability to deal with threats all over the board, because they have neither the speed nor the range to do it.


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## CPT Killjoy (Feb 15, 2012)

@Mcmuffin: So basically your right, but seriously, there is no one answer for any army (since they all have multiple builds) everyone should know that already. Las/Plas is just a solid strategy against them. I just ment that like I just said, it's effective....... most of the time.


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## Suijin (Aug 11, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> Plasma Syphons can only be taken by 1 model in the Grey Knight army (Xenos Inquisitors), Also they're terrible.


I think people take the Xenos inquisitor because it is cheap, and can take psychotroke and rad grenades, not due to them being able to take a plasma syphon.


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## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Now, I've never played against Grey Knights before, but as a Necron player, my best way with dealing with them (specifically Draigo Wings) would be Doomsday Arks. Even with their termie-armor, not much will stand to Str-9 AP 1 large blasts. And when I run D-Arks, I run them in pairs.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

The Sturk said:


> Now, I've never played against Grey Knights before, but as a Necron player, my best way with dealing with them (specifically Draigo Wings) would be Doomsday Arks. Even with their termie-armor, not much will stand to Str-9 AP 1 large blasts. And when I run D-Arks, I run them in pairs.


I can say with experience this worked against my GK list. Mordrak and crew all died in one turn  Also McMuffin is correct in reducing GK mobility because they don't have the range to save them after they are on foot.


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