# What sci fi series would make the most sense for early 40K?



## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

I got bored so I decided to star thinking about this. To me there's only two series that would make sense.

Stargate or star trek.

Stargates have some things in common with webway travel. However travel in the webway is described as ships and people moving around. Perhaps the ancients gate tech is a primitive form of old one webway access?
The question remains what happened to the gates. I'd be willing to say that they were destroyed during the dark age of technology.

Star trek on the other hand had allot more problems that can be worked around. For example subspace could be considered the warp. At a time when it wasn't tainted by the chaos gods. I know that most of them came into being before this point but consider this perhaps the warp wasn't tainted by 1400 AD, time in the warp is meaningless perhaps to them it was instant, but to us it took until the 15 millennium to become what it is in 40K that would explain why they can enter the warp without a navigator.

The problem with this however is what happened to the factions and species in this era? Why is there no traces of the borg? Perhaps in the 29 century or later there was a massive war, that resulted in the MAD of all involved. Earth survived because perhaps a powerful psyker say the emperor was able to save it.

If you look at it ocampa betazoid's and vulcans are in some ways psykers untrained psykers but maybe psykers.

Thoughts?


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Mass Effect. The Dark Age of Technology? More like the time Reapers wiped us out. They will return, and soon! Their number is legion, and they shall blot out the skies of every world with their number. Ia! Ia!


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Mossy Toes said:


> Mass Effect.


Yeah got to agree with Mass Effect is one of the closest that I know MAYBE the X series.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I would say the Stargate. The idea of webways as well as the Ancients. In someways the Ori could represent Chaos.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

locustgate said:


> Yeah got to agree with Mass Effect is one of the closest that I know MAYBE the X series.


Mass effect is plausible.

never though of that.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Earth 2 is the only sci-fi series that immediately comes to mind where they don't have FTL ships, and do use the kind of colony ships described in the early Golden Age. I also like how they maintain the theme that humans are their own worst enemies, even in the face of hostile xenos. Unfortunately, the series didn't last long enough to get outside of the immediate colonization crisis and into the higher politics of humanity at the time.

Star Trek is too technologically advanced even for the Golden Age... FTL (warp) drives, phasers (both personal and ship-board), black hole technology. And they're waaaaaay too good at solving problems.

Stargate, on further reflection, wouldn't be too bad if you assume the Eldar wouldn't kick the crap out of Humanity the first time they attempt mass use of the Webway. It also carries the implication that humanity is the direct descendent of the Old Ones, not just a genetically engineered science experiment, and that we have access to their technology in the 21st Century.

Not familiar with the details of Mass Effect, but isn't that a video game?


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> Earth 2 is the only sci-fi series that immediately comes to mind where they don't have FTL ships, and do use the kind of colony ships described in the early Golden Age. I also like how they maintain the theme that humans are their own worst enemies, even in the face of hostile xenos. Unfortunately, the series didn't last long enough to get outside of the immediate colonization crisis and into the higher politics of humanity at the time.
> 
> Star Trek is too technologically advanced even for the Golden Age... FTL (warp) drives, phasers (both personal and ship-board), black hole technology. And they're waaaaaay too good at solving problems.
> 
> ...


Like I said if star trek was plausible then something bad had to happen to cause the federation to disappear.

For stargate perhaps the ancients are shielding use of the gate network from the eldar.

Perhaps the ancients are childern of the old ones.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Reaper45 said:


> Like I said if star trek was plausible then something bad had to happen to cause the federation to disappear.


The Age of Strife. We know some sort of pan galactic alliance is in place in the form of the Cabal, maybe they are the remnants of the Federation, who, after seeing what Humanity did to itself and possibly other races during the AoS, and have been keeping a close eye on them since.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Khorne's Fist said:


> The Age of Strife. We know some sort of pan galactic alliance is in place in the form of the Cabal, maybe they are the remnants of the Federation, who, after seeing what Humanity did to itself and possibly other races during the AoS, and have been keeping a close eye on them since.


Perhaps. But the question remains why happened to the other species? Maybe the events of star trek 2009 are the start?


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## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr (Apr 3, 2012)

to be honest, it does not truly exist, though Ill say mass effect is closest if we count games. point is that all the sci-fi tv shows pull off one another, Stargate, Farscape, firefly, star trek, they all kind of pulled off eachother, and stole ideas at one point or another from one of the other shows. so it would really be difficult to point a finger at any one sci-fi genere to be closest to 40k pre dark age, as we dont know what 40k pre dark age would have been


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## DarkDisciple_Nahum (Oct 6, 2013)

I imagine that The Great Crusade worked something like the way the necromongers do in the Chronicles of Riddick. Planetary take over and then conversion or death! Of course, Starship Troopers is an excellent example of IG vs. Nids... and Neil Patrick Harris is one bada$$ psyker.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I don't think any form of gvoernment in Science Fiction resembles the High Councils of Terra. That is difficult, however, I will say that Stargate has good "origin lore," which give pretense to why things are the way they are. I think the same could be said about 40k. Not convinced much about Firefly, but you could say that the rebels represent a "nicer" version of Chaos Warbands or Marauders. The homeworld of the Reapers also resemble a "Eye of the Warp."


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

DarkDisciple_Nahum said:


> Starship Troopers (movies)


Sorry had to do that Starship troopers is worlds different in the various reiterations

In order of most like book
Live action movies, Animated TV show, Animated movie (20(something)),Da book.

The Tv show to book had power armor, tv show armor was a step below spartan. Although in both the Animate movie and book the power armor varied from highly mobile to moving tanks, all armed to teeth. 
In the book the humans were fight the bugs and their alien allies, the 'skinnies', the bugs had made a deal to destroy the humans and then ignore the skinnies. But humans used terror tactics on the skinny civilians, blowing up non industrial buildings, killing massive amount civilians, until the skinnies capitulated and joined the humans. I imagined that's what the dark age of humanity was like.


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## DarkDisciple_Nahum (Oct 6, 2013)

Fair enough locustgate. I should have specified. I have seen the animated series and own the book as well and you are right they are all rather different. The movies are just the most well known at least by the people I know (who to be honest aren't the smartest people...).


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

To be honest, you could shoehorn almost any sci-fi setting into 40k. A lot has to have happened in 28,000 years.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Two pages and no ones mentioned Event Horizon yet? I know its a movie but its exactly what I think the early days of warp travel looked like.

For me the tech difference is too big for star trek to be part of the 40k prehistory. With access to safer and faster engines humanity never wouldve even looked into the warp and so all the DAoT tech wouldn't exist.

Stargate has similar problems in that star gates are a vastly superior mode of travel. The other problem is that its back story is pretty well developed and doesn't mesh at all with 40k.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

MEQinc said:


> Event Horizon


IF IF that is the movie I think it is..didn't everyone die or go insane in it?


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

MEQinc said:


> Two pages and no ones mentioned Event Horizon yet? I know its a movie but its exactly what I think the early days of warp travel looked like.
> 
> For me the tech difference is too big for star trek to be part of the 40k prehistory. With access to safer and faster engines humanity never wouldve even looked into the warp and so all the DAoT tech wouldn't exist.
> 
> Stargate has similar problems in that star gates are a vastly superior mode of travel. The other problem is that its back story is pretty well developed and doesn't mesh at all with 40k.


Did you literally just look at stargate and star trek and not read anything else?

I gave a few reasons how it could work.


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## Veteran Sergeant (May 17, 2012)

locustgate said:


> IF IF that is the movie I think it is..didn't everyone die or go insane in it?


Of course they did. They were exposed to the Warp without a Gellar field to protect them.


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## kazou21 (Oct 4, 2013)

Then: Mass Effect
Now: Event Horizon


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Veteran Sergeant said:


> Of course they did. They were exposed to the Warp without a Gellar field to protect them.


Then...how..could it be the same universe.....everyone is dead? Humans don't just spontaneously spring up from dirt, unless you buried them to shallow and it rained hard.


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## Veteran Sergeant (May 17, 2012)

locustgate said:


> Then...how..could it be the same universe.....everyone is dead? Humans don't just spontaneously spring up from dirt, unless you buried them to shallow and it rained hard.


Hmm, then you're not talking about Event Horizon. 

Everyone on the _ship_ went crazy, but not every human.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Veteran Sergeant said:


> Event Horizon.


Yeah your right but it is a move Dr Grant was in I can't remember the name.
That being said the timing is wrong the Warp Drive was invented in 20k, it's off by 18k. The ship was nicer than I would think a chaos tainted ship would be.


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## DarthMarko (Aug 20, 2012)

Wtf nobody mentioned DUNE ? Psykers, cults, navigators, anti machine war ? Whole freaking setting is a rip off of that...


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

DarthMarko said:


> Wtf nobody mentioned DUNE ? Psykers, cults, navigators, anti machine war ? Whole freaking setting is a rip off of that...


I'm not familiar with dune. Are you talking the books or the movie?

Also what are the thoughts on ender's game being a possibility?


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

DarthMarko said:


> Wtf nobody mentioned DUNE ? Psykers, cults, navigators, anti machine war ? Whole freaking setting is a rip off of that...


How remiss of us. We humbly crave pardon.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

I'm surprise no one has mentioned star wars. Either there is no love for it here or the few that do know it's a galaxy far far away.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

locustgate said:


> I'm surprise no one has mentioned star wars. Either there is no love for it here or the few that do know it's a galaxy far far away.


Exactly.

Dune is a good point, it covers most of the significant features of the 40k universe. 

After all the talk of event horizon, I just watched it again. Damn good movie. Thanks for the reminder.


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## DarthMarko (Aug 20, 2012)

Reaper45 said:


> I'm not familiar with dune. Are you talking the books or the movie?


Serie, movie, books...when you read all the books you're gonna see how much of universe was blatantly copied...


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

This question is somewhat redundant in my opinion for the simple reason that it is the 41st Millennial. That means 40,000 years of humanity have come and gone and I cannot honestly believe that even Star Trek and Star Gate Universes would still be stuck in the Dark Ages of Space Technology after all that.

The thing that makes 40k unique IMHO is that it has no background. You cannot chalk or cook up how the 40k universe came to be, and leaves it open to wide interpretation. Additionally the HUGE gap in historical reference gives the writers greater freedom when developing the background to their stories. Therefore I feel it's stupid to try and pin it on any previously known or future Science Fiction series as the "most likely" predecessor to Warhammer 40k.

Star Trek: Technology too Advanced, and only the Borg use any type of robotic technology which 40k commons refers to as "The Iron Men."

StarGate: Multi-Dimensional travel that would involve the warp. Daemons, stable Warp Gate? Probably not.

Star Wars: Possible Predecessor considering the rise and fall of technology, the arrival of the Yuza Vong, and clash between individuals with psychic powers that could be refer to the warp. However technology is too advanced and lasers to common to revert back into a 40k state.

StarCraft II: I cannot remember the idiot who suggested this to me but I'd slap him if I could. This could not be possible period, unless at a far earlier stage of the 40k universe. Considering the Zurg are somewhat like the Nids, and the Terrans obviously humanity, where does that leaves the Protoss? Highly unlikely.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

emporershand89 said:


> This question is somewhat redundant in my opinion for the simple reason that it is the 41st Millennial. That means 40,000 years of humanity have come and gone and I cannot honestly believe that even Star Trek and Star Gate Universes would still be stuck in the Dark Ages of Space Technology after all that.
> 
> The thing that makes 40k unique IMHO is that it has no background. You cannot chalk or cook up how the 40k universe came to be, and leaves it open to wide interpretation. Additionally the HUGE gap in historical reference gives the writers greater freedom when developing the background to their stories. Therefore I feel it's stupid to try and pin it on any previously known or future Science Fiction series as the "most likely" predecessor to Warhammer 40k.
> 
> ...


We know that three chaos gods were born during the 14th century of earth. However what I don't understand is this. Wars clearly happened before this. The eldar fought things, why did khorne only come into being because of a human war?

We are looking at the warp as a liner timeline trying to put it to events we know. Perhaps it only became what it is later on.

Am I making sense?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> Star Trek StarGate Star Wars StarCraft .


Agreed. I honestly can't even see Star Gate happening in any other universe other than stargate. Star wars, sigh did you ignore my post, different galaxy. Star Craft agreed.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

DarthMarko said:


> Wtf nobody mentioned DUNE ? Psykers, cults, navigators, anti machine war ? Whole freaking setting is a rip off of that...


Precisely. If nothing else is cited from 'Dune', consider the Butlerian Jyhad - described as a war fought to extinction between man and the "thinking machines" that rose against him; the resulting ban on all "thinking machines" - robots, artificial intelligence of all stripes; and the concept of Houses of Navigators - which, in 'Dune' as in 40k, are human beings mutated for the express purpose of guiding humanity's starship during interstellar travel. To say nothing of Dune's own colonizing pre-history, which mirror's 40k's description of disparate groups from earth hurling themselves throughout the cosmos without reliable interstellar travel.

Those four alone don't just make 'Dune' a source of inspiration for 40k (and other settings as well); they make it the *only* sci-fi setting that could literally be inserted into the 40k timeline as a part of its "ancient history" with minimal headaches.

Virtually the only wrinkles are the absence of the known xenos races from 'Dune' - Eldar, Orks, etc., and the existence of a huge human interstellar empire that lasted for millennia. The latter can easily be explained by being placed in the time before the Age of Strife (before which little is known). And the absence of Chaos is easily explained for the same reason.


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## Stornkin (Oct 21, 2013)

If it is in the Star Trek story, the Borg become Necrons. A major event can cause technology to be lost. If all the scientist are wiped out and the people who know how to make it are as well, we would have to re-learn everything. Some catastrophic event could cause it; Stars exploding for example.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> 14th century


You are partly right they were born from 8000 BC - 1400 AD .

In order Nurgle, Khorne, and Tzen(can never spell it correctly do to warp trickery)

Black Crusade book.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

locustgate said:


> You are partly right they were born from 8000 BC - 1400 AD .
> 
> In order Nurgle, Khorne, and Tzen(can never spell it correctly do to warp trickery)
> 
> Black Crusade book.


Something which I heavily refute.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Something which I heavily refute.


The order is from the black crusade book

The time line is from that and others, it's been around for a while. What 2nd ed Chaos or something around that ed


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

locustgate said:


> The time line is from that and others, it's been around for a while. What 2nd ed Chaos or something around that ed


I know.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I know.


thought you were complaining about the order.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

locustgate said:


> thought you were complaining about the order.


No, I refute the notion that the Chaos Gods were 'born' so late, or even 'born' at all.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Hmmmmmmm... actually, Todeswind makes an incredible case for Babylon 5 for 'best fit' with 40K pre-history. Doesn't even have to mangle the storyline or any of the major plot devices to make them fit.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74316


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> Precisely. If nothing else is cited from 'Dune', consider the Butlerian Jyhad - described as a war fought to extinction between man and the "thinking machines" that rose against him; the resulting ban on all "thinking machines" - robots, artificial intelligence of all stripes; and the concept of Houses of Navigators - which, in 'Dune' as in 40k, are human beings mutated for the express purpose of guiding humanity's starship during interstellar travel. To say nothing of Dune's own colonizing pre-history, which mirror's 40k's description of disparate groups from earth hurling themselves throughout the cosmos without reliable interstellar travel.
> 
> Those four alone don't just make 'Dune' a source of inspiration for 40k (and other settings as well); they make it the *only* sci-fi setting that could literally be inserted into the 40k timeline as a part of its "ancient history" with minimal headaches.
> 
> Virtually the only wrinkles are the absence of the known xenos races from 'Dune' - Eldar, Orks, etc., and the existence of a huge human interstellar empire that lasted for millennia. The latter can easily be explained by being placed in the time before the Age of Strife (before which little is known). And the absence of Chaos is easily explained for the same reason.


Considering what the Ixians were doing with the incorporation of digital and cloning technology you have a good basis for the creation of servitors. The Bene Geserit and Mentats demonstrate excellent examples of why you should 'fear the mutant', considering their long-term genetic manipulations. Even the aristocratic goverment with a single Governor per planet ties into the 40K systems very nicely.

The two major issues are the lack of Xenos, as you've noticed, and the fact the burgeoning House Corrino turned half the habital planets in the galaxy into radioactive wastelands for the next several millennia prosecuting the Butlerian Jihad, including Terra. But what the heck, just wait a few millenia and send out a whole bunch of colony ships... problem solved.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Reaper45 said:


> Am I making sense?


Kind of, but as of yet that is something only the writers really know.

The general point here is that Warhammer 40k is one of the few Science Fiction universes that rarely defines itself in full context. It will rarely ever give you all events from Point A to Point B; and leave you to create the history along the way. This gives the writers much larger freedom to create their own back stories, and set the stage for their own novels. It's what makes the 40k universe so....exciting!


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## DavC8855 (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm probably coming into this a little late but.....

BattleTech Universe. The Inner-Sphere Colonies and the Clans and stuff that I can't remember now cuz those were my pre-40K days of yore. Would make for the perfect early age tech. 

Event Horizon was the "forgotten" Warp experiment of our time. Such an awesome movie!!
"Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see." Dr. William Weir.


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Naturally, Dune makes a good fit.
IT WAS one of the sources used to inspire the original game, alongside Foundation, Deathworld, Judge Dredd, Starship Troopers and others (like the Paradise lost/heresy parallels.)


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