# Earth in Warhammer40K



## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

(When I say Earth I mean Earth as it is now. With the same technology we have, the same countries we have, even you, the reader, sitting at your computer reading this)

What if the Imperium came to our world? Do you think we would be compliant?


I don't think we as a whole would. Maybe some nations would choose to be and others would resist. We would probably have a lot wars too. But eventually I think we would have to surrender our world.

Tell me what you think?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

I think this has already been done.
The majority of us would probably resist and we would be crushed like bugs.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Course we wouldn't surrender. Until it was too late. Too many pansies around to say fight to the end - and they would be the ones who be around at the end as well.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

If the Imperium found us as we are now, they'd probably declare exterminatus on us purely because of Justin Bieber. Wouldn't want that taint to spread any further than one planet.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I would rather hope the Nids invade Earth before the Imperium. They only have to eat France to take up the surrender gene and were as good as dandy.

If the Imperium landed here they would declare us traitors for moving around little figurines of themselves around tiny tables.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

If the imperium landed on earth...... where did they come from?

The most likely thing is that (unless they just open up on us and decide to wipe the planet out) we would be annexed into the Imperium and after recieving the advanced weaponary of the imperium the majority of the soldiers in our armies would be sent of the proove themselves, considering the current tactics and thinking of the main powerfull countries armies, they would be used as more elite forces than just cannon fodder, Although some still will.

Considering that the main commonground that anyone could have (other than being human) would be that both cultures mainly worship a singular god who is the father of mankind. Unfortunately some other religions would be wiped out or driven underground, pretty much any that polytheist ideas.


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## Harriticus (Nov 10, 2010)

Didn't the Imperium absorb parts of the Interex, which was a technologically advanced human empire? I don't think we'd get Exterminatus. Rather I imagine we'd try to establish "diplomatic relations" with them at first, to which the Imperium laughs at the very concept of diplomacy and proceeds to forcibly assimilate us. We'd all be on some frozen hellhole clinging to our lasguns in a never-ending war against Orks a few years later.


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## toalewa850 (Mar 21, 2010)

If they did come and destroy us the Imperium would cease to exist since they just killed their ancestors. [Especially since they live on a renamed Earth and they live in the 41st millenia] They would HAVE to come in peace.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

Terra is just the latin name for earth. Latin is most likely what is commonly reffered to as High gothic.

And dammit toalewa850, that was the point i was waiting to use on someone who would argue that the "imperium comes from terra"


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

High Gothic isn't Latin. It's an amalgam of various old earth languages, but with a heavy emphasis on latin.

He is not saying they we are the terra that the imperium spawned from. Merely that we could be a long lost element of humanity that came to believe this was terra.... IOW, stupid.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

So theres alot of planets called Terra, all orbiting different stars but still called Sol and with a solar system identical to our own?


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

What I meant by saying Earth was that Terra and Earth were seperate. As if The Imperiums world (Terra) is a completly different one than our own (Earth)


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Hooobit said:


> So theres alot of planets called Terra, all orbiting different stars but still called Sol and with a solar system identical to our own?


No, a world called earth which is similar in every way to the one we have now. Now quit nitpicking and get one with the mans question.


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## Tyrannus (Sep 19, 2010)

Hooobit said:


> Considering that the main commonground that anyone could have (other than being human) would be that both cultures mainly worship a singular god who is the father of mankind. Unfortunately some other religions would be wiped out or driven underground, pretty much any that polytheist ideas.


Actually, the Imperium was based on the Roman Empire before christianity took hold; so they were actually pretty lenient on religion. As long as you do not hold your god higher than the emperor then your religion should be fine. That's why christians and jews weren't treated so well in the early days of the empire.

So I believe it would be the other way round. Jews, muslims and Christians are going to be the ones wiped out or driven underground.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I think in some respects our technology surpasses the Imperium. I think modern main battle tanks would compare well to a Leman Russ, the latest fighter craft, while being slower if you go by the FW stats for thunderbolts and lightnings, don't seem far off the capabilities those craft. I think if it came to a straight fight we'd do pretty well, but then you factor in the orbital support available, never mind SMs, it really flips it on it's head.

However, I think once the various governments realised just how badly out gunned in that regard we are, and that we wouldn't be wiped out if we just fell into line, they would capitulate. There would of course be pockets of resistance, but they wouldn't last long.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

If we resisted, we would be fucked... Our governments would never understand what we could gain from joining the Imperium of Man... They would resist... And lead us to our doom... 

But that can be prevented...

There is a reason why _*I*_ should be the leader of this planet...


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I guess we know when Doelago has accomplished his latest task of being leader of planet Earth when he addresses us as a Grey Knight!


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Hooobit said:


> So theres alot of planets called Terra, all orbiting different stars but still called Sol and with a solar system identical to our own?


Happened in the very first HH book. They even had an Emperor. The only thing that makes it weird is that we have a TT game of them. But the warp works in mysterious ways...

To the OP's question. We'd resist. They'd shoot the White House (or something) from space and we'd fold like a house of folding cards. Then life would continue pretty much the same.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

MEQinc said:


> They'd shoot the White House (or something) from space


Not all bad then.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Moment they were detected in orbit the pres would be in a bunker. Don't know about your queen, not like it really matters much, but the US president would be safe.... for a short time anyway. US and Russia would probably just nuke the bastards. Well, they would try at the very least.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

Royal family would be in Pegasus along with the PM and Cabinet.

I've only ever seen 1 reference to nuclear weapons in 40k, how would the shields on a imperial cruiser fare against them?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Idk. One? Probably do ok. 10? Guess is that it wouldn't do all that well against them.


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## turel2 (Mar 2, 2009)

It would be cool to watch the drop pods fall lol


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## Brother Arnold (Aug 29, 2010)

Well, there would be resistance at first. We might do pretty well nuking them at he start, but when the SM come down, they'd probably decimate a major country or something. In the worst-case scenario, either we go all up against them and they declare us heretics and spawn of Chaos and Exterminatus us, or just denounce us as heretics straight away and Exterminatus us. Assuming this doesn't happen or they don't Exterminatus us, (they'd probably recognise the galactic coordinates of Holy Terra, and therefore want to preserve it) then any long wars would be doomed to failure. The Imperium has 1,000,000 Space Marines and hundreds of thousands of millions of billions of trillions of Imperial Guard. This wouldn't be a war we'd get out of easily, and the situation here would be like on Cadia in the sense of these two quotes:
"The birthrate and recruitment rate on Cadia are synonymous..."
"Any child on Cadia who can't strip, reassemble and fire a lasgun before he can read was born on the wrong planet."
Even with this, we might end up barely coming out, not just because of the Imperium's far superior numbers but also because of CREEEEEEEEED! (Though it is possible we could match Creed, since modern tactics are far superior to 41st Millennium tactics and our tacticians would be tactical geniuses by 40K standards.) However, most of the IG will be up in their ships for most of the time so a few nukes and missiles into the Imperial Navy could tip the balance in our favour.
Eventually, we would probably still end up losing (damn you Space Marines and your overpowered statlines and special rules!) and we would have to accept the God-Emperor as our rightful saviour and protector before he's even saved us. Life as usual, 40K style, and we both contribute something to the other. The Imperium gives us Warp travel and the opportunity to ply the stars, we give the Imperium better tactics and some scientific innovation. A couple of revolutions will spring up, and I know for a fact that one will end up being quite large and then execute Robin Cruddace and Mat Ward for making IG and SM so amazingly overpowered. Others will probably have someone come in and say they're actually the Emperor, since for all the Imperium knows they could be as this is the distant past and the Emperor is probably among us somewhere. These rebellions would fail whenever they sprung up.
In a few millennia we would get up to the Dark Age of Technology, as our top scientists and the Adeptus Mechanicum finally manage to reverse engineer the weapons and technology of the Imperium and use this knowledge to pioneer the things that were left behind and not yet found in the 41st Millennium. Thus, we enter the Dark Age of Technology and we encounter the races that also exist in 40K. We reign supreme for another few millennia, then become like the Eloi from H.G. Wells' novel _The Time Machine_, or possibly more like the humans from _Wall-E_ as our great technologies drive us into decadence and laziness. We fail to notice the encroaching threat of the xenos and Chaos, and then we are dealt a great blow. We enter the Age of Strife, and there would have been rebellions going on for all this time. At the end of the Age of Strife, one man is successful in his claims that he is the God-Emperor. By this time, many have forgotten that he existed, and the rest is history.
Thinking realistically, we see no threat in the large armies of 30cm tall metal and plastic miniatures, and after some petitions to the governments of the world by wargamers and hippies, we allow the Imperium to live, and we get one of the High Lords or Tigurius to tell us where they came from and how they got here. We then manage to get all the other armies out of the 40K universe, and after some persuasion (e.g. capturing major gods and leaders and keeping them in underground facilities) we get the armies to submit themselves to the service of wargamers, dividing them out between us. A rewrite of 40K is then put in place, a cloning system based on Dark Eldar technology is developed to make sure miniatures which get slain in your battles can come back, and also so that armies where there are not many warriors to go around can be given out to everyone. And 40K is now a lot more awesome.
If the Imperium is at real scale, and they're accepting diplomacy from us, then after a few weeks, maybe a month or two to give our answer to the Imperium's ultimatum the governments of the world send wargamers who play Imperium armies to go up and send our message and to swear oaths of fealty to the God-Emperor on behalf of the human race. In these few months, every wargamer has wisely switched to an Imperial army and we become the world leaders and generals in a new Golden Age of Humanity. 40K is reinvented as a means to test out tactics for battles and campaigns against xenos.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

In all fairness, if it was a case of fighting on the ground only (no orbital stuff) we would win. the Imperial guard wouldn't be to happy when they see that our tanks (Challenger mk.2, Abrams m1a1 and the leopard II for example) can hit their tanks from outside their own range, are less of a target due to their smaller build and have stronger armour.

The guard would win battle due to massive numbers, but they would take some pretty damn heavy casualties due to the weapons we use combined with out tactics. And seeings that our planes would easily beat the imperial flyer, we would own the skies, so with the support of planes and helicopters ground battles might actually swing our way.

As far as space marines go, If a lasgun can has been seen to penetrate a suit of power armour, a normal 5.56mm round might strungle, but any of the bigger calibre ammunition wound probably get through, so 12.7/ .50 cal, 40mm grenades, 20mm & 30mm cannon etc. would probably do the damage. Besides, we have neutron bombs specifically designed to kill the people inside the armour.

The elite troops we have would be better than the elite troops that the guard have, sostrikes from them would be pretty effective against any groud based targets that the imperials would have, that combined with our arial support, naval capabilities and extreme long range smart weapons their supply routes and command structure wouldn't last to long once it has been located.

It would be most likely similair to the Halo universe in which mankind can win almost every ground engagement but almost always loses in the space battles.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

Ah, about time I saw one of these.

I'm in complete agreement with Hoobit. Except that when the tides of war turned against us irrevocably -- we'd, the stubborn little bastards we are, would sooner send our world into nuclear holocaust rather than submit to non-democratic government. So the Imperium would win and inherit a radioactive wasteland and the millions upon millions, and thousands upon thousands, of Guard and Space Marine corpses.

On that note -- this is actually my 2012 Conspiracy theory, a long shot I know, but its unique. I do not believe the Imperium will find us -- but rather some other Human Empire with him we lost contact with hundreds of thousands of years ago. 

Now ... how that particular exchange goes, it anyways guess.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Whatever happens, we (the 40k fluff fans) are all fucked, we have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much information the inner working of chaos, xenos and the Imperium in general, including events they would rather us not know or have forgotten ^^

We are all doomed to spend our lives in some Inquisition cell, giving them all our info. Sucks to be us


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## Arkeoptrix (Oct 8, 2010)

"You say the Emperor is real? I don't get to be a Servitor do I? No? Cool, sign me up."


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

Space Marines teleport into the bedrooms of every major leader on Earth... the spinless, corrupt tramps immediately capitulate. The world’s armies gear themselves up for a big scrap... see ten Legion's of Titans striding across the battlefield surrounded by 1000,000 IG, 100,000 tanks, the skies full of Imperial battle cruisers... crap pants, lay down weapons. All Hail the God Emperor!


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

Space marine teleporters arn't that accurate. #And the world leaders owuld already be in their bunkers.


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

Hooobit said:


> Space marine teleporters arn't that accurate. #And the world leaders owuld already be in their bunkers.


OK, teleport into the bunkers then! Problem solved.. :victory:


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## Ordo epitaphiorum (Nov 13, 2010)

I guess I would pray to the a<llmighty C'Tan to come and save us with their armies of love and deadly space robot undeads 
I guess I would transform myself into a Necron and sleep a few millenia until the big show is over...


Or maybe I would enter the Adeptus Mechanicus. I like that guys. Almost necron, but not as sleepy as the full metals


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## Imperial Valor (Sep 1, 2010)

I know this is a little after your post but what is the Pegasus Hoobit?
Us Brits would be fine, we'd bribe the Imperium to let us join peacefully with PG Tips
and a free monkey!!

Jokes aside, unless the government has a Death Star hiding behind the Moon (or is the Moon the Death Star?) which could just burst out behind their fleet and vaporize it, then we'd be dead or have joined them.

Oh, and accordingly to my Local GW manager, and space marine can easily withstand a nuke going off in his adamantium armor, even if he sat on it.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

You manager is a fuckwit; that marine would be a shadow on a wall.

Really though, they wouldn't want to destroy us. The planet is to valuable to them.


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## Imperial Valor (Sep 1, 2010)

No.no.no, he has truth to his meaning, the first "Power Armor" was developed when mankind had found warp travel (the age where we all go really far in space ships like in Star Trek), the suit was used by engineers to freely walk into the engines to repair them, and being so tough they easily withstand the plasma bouncing around everywhere. He never talks bs this guy, trust me.

Still not convinced? Why don't the advanced races (Eldar, Tau) use nukes against SMs? Because they're useless.
(As in they're ineffective, not saying the races suck,)


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Please tell me you are being sarcastic.


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## Imperial Valor (Sep 1, 2010)

Nope.

Well OK maybe with the moon being the Deatstar....


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

If thats the case, why can a boltgun kill a SM, or anyother weapon in the game for that point.???? I think that the weakest gun I have read about killing a SM in any book has been a Lasgun.

It might be able to deal with the standard radiation found in a reactor, but neutron radiation and a hell of a blast force, maybe not.

Pegasus is the bunker for the Leaders of the country, its somewhere in london but other than that I don't know alot about it.


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## Imperial Valor (Sep 1, 2010)

Fair point there Hoobit, didn't think of it like that.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

Slap the manager of the store that told you that.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Seriously? Seriously? :laugh:


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## Imperial Valor (Sep 1, 2010)

No way, he scares the crap out of me, at beginners 40k today we were all asking him questions (newbie stuff) and he shouted so loud in rage that I was deaf for at-least 1minute, gets worse, he has this warahammer fantasy metal templaty thingy or something, and when he got annoyed he started waking the table, and very nearly broke my terminator squad :S


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

Fair enough, If i was working in a shop and wassurrounded by people who haden't read the rules i'd be pretty pissed.


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## Imperial Valor (Sep 1, 2010)

In all fairness the people hadn't really played before....


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## StalkerZero (Oct 3, 2010)

Eh. We may not be squashed too badly if the Emperor's finest showed up. 

We've already made a Land Raider (check the youtube video) so we can do what a good SM would do and hide in it until it's blown up and then come out weapons a blazing (and we can probably even move/shoot/assault in the same turn unlike them!).


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

You got a link there Stalkerzero?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

In all fairness he sounds like a collossal tool, one which probably got bullied whilst he was in school so has now decided to take years of repressed anger and torment out on new gamers. I would simply tell him to fuck off.


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## Imperial Valor (Sep 1, 2010)

^^Best tip of the year award there.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Hooobit said:


> In all fairness, if it was a case of fighting on the ground only (no orbital stuff) we would win.


Which is why it's unfortunate that the Imperium would be coming from orbit. 



> the Imperial guard wouldn't be to happy when they see that our tanks (Challenger mk.2, Abrams m1a1 and the leopard II for example) can hit their tanks from outside their own range, are less of a target due to their smaller build and have stronger armour.


What do they care? They have more tanks than we have people. And really why are they deploying so far away from us? Drop it on their heads I say.



> The guard would win battle due to massive numbers, but they would take some pretty damn heavy casualties due to the weapons we use combined with out tactics. And seeings that our planes would easily beat the imperial flyer, we would own the skies, so with the support of planes and helicopters ground battles might actually swing our way.


Again, what do they care? The guard would be willing to blanket this world with their corpses if that was what it would take. They are perfectly willing to take these kinds of casualties. We are not. As soon as casualty reports start reaching civilians (which they will) you can expect massive backlash and a crumbling political will. They can and will sustain damages that we will and can not.



> As far as space marines go, If a lasgun can has been seen to penetrate a suit of power armour, a normal 5.56mm round might strungle, but any of the bigger calibre ammunition wound probably get through, so 12.7/ .50 cal, 40mm grenades, 20mm & 30mm cannon etc. would probably do the damage. Besides, we have neutron bombs specifically designed to kill the people inside the armour.


Lasguns cannot penetrate power armour. Boltguns cannot penetrate power armour. Nothing shy of a hellgun (that word is better) can penetrate power armour. Guardsmen can occasionally kill marines by hitting them in the joints enough, unfortunately we don't have the numbers to just keep shooting at them while they butcher us. 



> The elite troops we have would be better than the elite troops that the guard have, sostrikes from them would be pretty effective against any groud based targets that the imperials would have, that combined with our arial support, naval capabilities and extreme long range smart weapons their supply routes and command structure wouldn't last to long once it has been located.


Why do you assume our special forces are better? No offense but how many of them have been raised from birth to kill? My money's on not very many. The Imperium breeds psyco-killers and super humans. People living on Catachan, Kreig or Cadia would all be superior (physically) to modern-humans. Thousands of years of selective breeding will do that. 

Tactically we may be better but reading some BL stuff (Gaunt's Ghosts in particular) I get the impression that tactics aren't always that simple in 40k. Not to mention the fact that they have more tactical options than us, including another theater of war (orbit) that we can't even enter.

And as far as shooting nukes into orbit goes, good luck with that. We do not have the capability to launch nukes beyond our atmosphere. We do not even have the capability to go to the moon anymore. All the Imperium has to do is sit out there and occasionally shoot at us. Plus, I'm pretty certain that nukes are the standard in ship-to-ship combat in 40k (not certain on this) and so void-shields are perfectly capable of holding off at least a few. And if nukes aren't the standard than that means there less effective, because it means the Imperium rejected them as a weapon. 

In conclusion. We'd be pooched. We wouldn't stand a chance.


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## shas'o Thraka (Jan 4, 2010)

Sadly, the world would be destroyed, because they would see the warring nations and different religions and declare us 'lost' even if some people wanted to embrace Imperial rule.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Yeah i'm with MEQinc, you are putting way, way, waaaaaaaay to much stock in our equipment. Worringly so. I seriously doubt our tank armour is better than a Leman Russ or a Predator. Our special forces are excellent yes, but they don't hold a candle to stormtrooprs, Kasrkin, Catachans or the Tanith and a multitude of other units. 5.56 would stuggle against carapace armour, never mind power armour, shit 7.62 would struggle against carapace. I'm not so sure a .50 cal would be able to cut apart power armour either, i don't think you realise just how good it is. And even then, all our .50 cals are on WMIK's, Jackals etc, all of which would be taken out instantly without any trouble. Our air support would be shot out of the sky so fast it wouldn't even be funny. Speed does not equal superiority.

And their numbers, regardless of tactics they would wipe the floor with us, we couldn't even being to try and equal the numbers they would throw out at us, and then theres their tank squadrons, which would just flatten anything heavy we have. 

Don't even get us started on when they call down Titans, something we couldn't even hope to beat, their void shields would withstand nukes and even if they couldn't, by nuking a titan we've now denied ourselves a huge portion of ground we can't fight in because of radiation, but the Imperium still can.

The Astartes would just destroy us, shit one chapter would very likely be able to whipe us out with no support from the Guard. Not that they would need to call in the Astartes against us.

And all of that is without orbital support, and you still think we would win? Shit you have a very high opinion of our armed forces, i'm flattered you think we are that good, but seriously, we aren't. I sure as fuck wouldn't want to go into a firefight with the Imperium and i gurantee very few of the lads would want to either.

Then let's add in orbital support, which they will use. That alone will whipe out all our airfields, barracks, depots and major cities. 

The battle for earth would be over in days, with us surrendering almost immediately. And if the worlds leaders didn't surrender, the population would probably overthrow them and surrender instead, and if we didn't do that. We. Would. Die.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

A counter argument.....




MEQinc said:


> Which is why it's unfortunate that the Imperium would be coming from orbit.
> 
> _Which is why I said IF, there has been numerous occasions when a planet has been taken from the ground by regular forces because a bombardment would damage something important on the planet._
> 
> ...


As far as our Aerial units go, they arn't just fast, the have countermeasures against missiles, and target locks. Jamming systems and Anti-armour, anti-air weapons. Most of the imperial stuff relies on line of sight.

The current human fighting forces are closer to the Tau forces than the Imperium or the Astartes.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Hmmmmmm i dont think so




Hooobit said:


> _Which is why it's unfortunate that the Imperium would be coming from orbit.
> 
> Which is why I said *IF*, there has been numerous occasions when a planet has been taken from the ground by regular forces because a bombardment would damage something important on the planet.
> 
> ...


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Hooobit said:


> A counter argument....._Which is why I said IF, there has been numerous occasions when a planet has been taken from the ground by regular forces because a bombardment would damage something important on the planet._


Taking orbit completely out of the question is ridiculous. The Imperium has no way of fighting ANYTHING without orbital support. It's were their bulk landers come from. Just because you can't blanket fire the entire planet does not mean that you can't target strategically important locations, air bases, refueling stations, etc. and eliminate them before combat begins. 

Obviously if we take orbital support completely out of the question the Imperium is in trouble. However this is because they've trained to use it. It would be like taken Americas air and naval support out of the equation when trying to determine who would win the Iraq war. It just doesn't make sense.



> _Imperial guard units cannot use anything like drop pods, and they use orbital landers for most of their deployments. Stand idea is that you put your forces down somewhere safe and then go fight it out. *IF* an orbital lander was taken down because it was in range of enemy forces how would that help anything the imperium was trying to do? Our current tanks have better anti-tank weapons, better armour, better computer systems & optics and in some cases can drive underwater_


Actually they can use things that are quite similar to drop pods, especially for tanks (deep striking landraiders, anyone?). Furthermore, _His Last Command_ (IIRC) demonstrates an orbital deployment where the guardsmen deploy right into the face of the enemy. Like literal in their face, the guardsmen are in assault like ten minutes after touchdown and that includes breaching a fortress. And again, so what if they lose a lander? So what if they lose six hundred? That just means the rest have gotten through and you can bet there will be more than six hundred.

Also we really have no way to compare modern tanks with those in 40k. We can assume through comparisons and the numbers GW gives out but that doesn't really give us anything concrete. Are tanks can drive underwater? So can chimeras. Hell, Leman Russ' can run on grass clippings. They're is no completely accurate way to say that what we have is better.



> _Casualty reports during a planet wide battle, not gonna happen. The imperial guard wouldn't be willing to blanket the world with their bodies to win, no commander who is running a planet wide assault would do something as stupid as that, especially against a foe who can fight properly._


During a planet wide battle casualty reports will be unnecessary, the population will be capable of finding out for itself. Does this in any way change what I said? Our world likes the will to fight through horrendous losses with no chance of victory. The Imperium does not. I must say I'm confused, you say that the Imperial Guard are willing to throw down their lives needlessly and have no tactics yet refuse to accept the logical consequences of these actions? If the only way the Imperial Guard could win here would be pay suffocating us all to death with their dead they would do it. They wouldn't even hesitate. The Guard exist to win. That is there purpose, and they will achieve it regardless of the cost.



> _Again, where are you getting this from? There has been numerous cases documented in the Fluff of 40k where SM power armour has been penetrated by las-fire, boltshells, autogun fire etc. I wouldnt think we would be to far off from matching that._


That statement was based of game mechanics, which I'll admit are a poor source of fluff. However, can you so we one instance where power armour was penetrated by a SINGLE lasgun shot? Having read almost the enitre Gaunt's Ghost series and several other novels I cannot think of one. Note also that I said penetrate, I do not care if the marine dies but the shot must pass completely through a solid piece of power armour (not the joints) and actually contact the marine underneath. 



> _No offense, but most of the worlds where the population is tuaght to fight from birth is where they get through the most soldiers, Cadia being the best example, where they have to fight due to the proximity of chaos. The current special forces we have our trained well and are (in the uk) already veterans with lots of previous combat experience before they can even try and enter the special forces._


The Schola Progenium(sp?) which is responsible for the training of all Storm Troopers and Commissars raises orphans from a very young age (I believe Gaunt was 8) to fight and kill in the name of the Emperor. I am not trying to say that the Special Forces here are bad, far from it. All I am saying is the Imperium raises it's special forces on hell worlds and a diet of constant combat. The decades of training our special forces have is nothing to the lives of violence members of Guard often lead. The fact that Cadia can go through these men like tea-bags only speaks to the shear deadliness of their foes.



> _We arn't talking 40k, we are talking about here and now. In 40k troops get used as cannon fodder, a tactical withdrawl is often punished by death and soldiers are often blindly lead into conflicts without any real intel. Our current command and control structure is better. We have the home field advantage._


We are talking 40k. Many people have suggested that the Imperium and the Guard in particular lack any sort of modern military tactics. I was showing that this is demonstratively not the case. The Ghosts repeatedly use advanced tactics to defeat their enemies. 

Secondly, sure our command and control structure is better, it's also a lot more vulnerable. How are we to protect our communications and informational satellites in space? How are we to bunker our leaders when the enemy posses the ability to bore through planets? How are we to control our armies when 1) we do not have a unified planetary leadership and 2) they can jam our communications?



> _So, ummm..... How exactly do intercontinental rockets work? I might not be an expert, but last time i looked, they went up into the upper atmosphere and then came back down to hit their designated targets._


_ 

_So, umm... where did I talk about upper atmosphere? I said "beyond our own atmosphere" this is where space ships go. Good luck getting one low enough to shot with an intercontinental missile. 


> _As far as the impeium using Atomics as a ship-to-ship weapon, they don't really seem to do that, they use regular missiles, cannons and energy weapons. Shields are great, but if they can be collapsed by regular weapons, Atomics are going to deffinately do something against them especially the Russian Tsar bomba type weapons in excess of 100megatons. If (like you said) Atomics wouldn't do anything, then why are fighters used in ship-to-ship warfare??_


I thought there regular ordinance was nukes, but I guess I was wrong. However the Imperium is more advanced than we are, if they have chosen to use conventional missiles as opposed to nukes than their must be a reason for it. Perhaps void-shields are more effective the more powerful the blast? Perhaps the cost (and by that I mean the number of missiles) to payload ratio isn't worth it? Fighters would be used because they can get through the shields. Military technology works in cycles, better weapons, better armour, they build bigger guns so you build better shields, so they build something that gets around your shields, so you build point defense. Fighters are more effective than nukes in 40k, so that is why they are used.

At the end of the day though, that doesn't matter because like I said above, you can't hit them anyway.



> _Not pooched, we wouldn't win but then again they wouldn't just walk over us, If it was a fight on the ground we could deffinately give them a good pounding, just not one that would ultimately win it for us._


We would lose. This is the meaning of pooched (at least as I used it). Our defeat is inevitable and the Imperium will not notice the casualties we inflict.

EDIT: Hey Angel, I can defend myself, thank you very much. You've got rep enough as it is, let the small fries do some talking :training:. Although it is nice to see others agreeing with me :victory:.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

This is the issue, I've read all the gaunts ghost books (in fact i've just read "the founding" again in the last week) and when it comes down to it, everytime I look at an imperial unit then look at the Tanith I can't help but think that the Imperium is missing out. The way that they see people modifying or improving technology as heresy, the way that the imperial guard win by mostly shear numbers (with the Tanith being one of the only exceptions). I hate the majority of the imperium for the way they seem to look at technology and the way they spend lives. It's why im changing to a Tau force after I've finished my Tanith one.

My basis for the deffense of earth is that it would be against the mainstay of the Imperium, the guard, not the titan legions of the Astartes but the guard units.

Reading about them in the books, Even the Tanith, in a night fight, don't have night vision optics, they have weapons that most of the time cauterise(?) any wounds they make causing minimal bleeding. If you created a codex for the soldiers of today, and fought against the Guard, the guard would get pasted.

The elite units that the Guard have are pretty good, but so are our guys. The royal marines in the UK, or say the Rangers or Regular Marines in the USA would be at least on par with the Tanith.

I'm always gonna support the home team on this one. We know more about the Imperial forces than they would know about ours.

The big hanging point seems to be that when i'm saying how we would deffend earth, i'm using a template of the forces that Invaded Menoziod epsilon in "First and Only".
You guys seem to be using every piece of the imperium.

Also if a missile can make it to the upper atmosphere it can break orbit and go further than that.

Fighters are more effective than nukes??? You need to stop and actually think about what you are sying when you spout this kinda stuff. 

the command structure of the current military is pretty solid, An emeny with no prior knowledge of our forces and organisational system, let alone where to strike wouldn't cripple us straight away.

Everyone seems to be getting too drawn into the whole "imperium wins because they are from the future" mindset.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Hooobit said:


> My basis for the deffense of earth is that it would be against the mainstay of the Imperium, the guard, not the titan legions of the Astartes but the guard units.


The Navy is also the mainstay force of the Imperium, at least as much as the guard. I personally haven't been including anything other than Guard and Naval support in my argument. Except the power armour thing but that was brought up by someone else.



> Reading about them in the books, Even the Tanith, in a night fight, don't have night vision optics, they have weapons that most of the time cauterise(?) any wounds they make causing minimal bleeding. If you created a codex for the soldiers of today, and fought against the Guard, the guard would get pasted.


Lasguns partially cauterize wounds, which is a lot worse than not at all. You wind up with your lungs fused together, or your arm fused at the joint, it is both incredibly painful and easily disabling. I'm pretty sure the Geneva convention would outlaw them if they existed today. And I will continue to disagree that the armed forces of today could defeat the guard, certainly not on the table top. Again, this is not meant as a slight to the armies of today, or the soldiers in them, but the hell that the Guard go through is incomparable to the wars of today. 



> The elite units that the Guard have are pretty good, but so are our guys. The royal marines in the UK, or say the Rangers or Regular Marines in the USA would be at least on par with the Tanith.


Couple of facts here. One the Tanith aren't an elite regiment, they're good and recognized as such but they receive not additional training to most guardsmen. Two, the true elites of the Imperium, the Storm Troopers, Kasrkin, even the Cadians, Death Korps, etc. (who it should be noted are statistically identical to other guardsmen) are raised from birth in the ideals of fighting, killing and dieing for the Imperium. The level of brainwashing that goes on in these cultures is ludicrous. And the level of training is beyond anything that occurs on Earth. Three, these elites are more numerous that even the conventional armies that exist of Earth. There are more Shocktroops than there are people here. Easily. 



> I'm always gonna support the home team on this one. We know more about the Imperial forces than they would know about ours.


I'm not supporting the Imperium here, I'm just looking at it realistically (or at least as realistically as anything to do with 40k). The Imperium doesn't need to know anything about us. They are incredibly used to going in blind. They learn as they go or not, as necessary.



> The big hanging point seems to be that when i'm saying how we would deffend earth, i'm using a template of the forces that Invaded Menoziod epsilon in "First and Only". You guys seem to be using every piece of the imperium.


I'm using the Navy and the Guard. These two were both present at Menozoid, although admittedly the Navy didn't do much. The Guard and the Navy alone would have no problems with us. None. Wham! Bam! Thank you planet Earth. That's all she wrote.



> Also if a missile can make it to the upper atmosphere it can break orbit and go further than that.


That is complete and utter BS. Fuel to size and payload ratios need to change, additional atmospheric resistance needs to be taken into account, void travel needs to be accounted for. Plus there is still a very long time frame from the ship to either move or intercept the missle.



> Fighters are more effective than nukes??? You need to stop and actually think about what you are sying when you spout this kinda stuff.


I did think about what I was saying. Indeed I reasoned through it in my post. Did you read it? I said "more effective" and by that I mean, most of your nukes will go off against the shields, none of the fighters will. See, thinking. There's more to war than what makes the biggest bang.



> the command structure of the current military is pretty solid, An emeny with no prior knowledge of our forces and organisational system, let alone where to strike wouldn't cripple us straight away.


An enemy with a vast amount of experience dealing with a wide variety of threats and specifically in dealing with wayward human cultures would be able to cripple our communications quite quickly. A simple backtrack on signal source gives you a probably command location and you blast it apart. Simple, fast, effective, requires no previous knowledge. 



> Everyone seems to be getting too drawn into the whole "imperium wins because they are from the future" mindset.


The Imperium wins because they have the will and the resources. The "from the future" has nothing to do with it.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

shas'o Thraka said:


> Sadly, the world would be destroyed, because they would see the warring nations and different religions and declare us 'lost' even if some people wanted to embrace Imperial rule.


They wouldn't destroy the world. It's very rich in resources. They would probably bomb us back into prestone age.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

We would lose, we might inflict substantially more casualties on them than they us, but that won't matter. We would put up one hell of a fight, sure, but we would be screwed from the word go.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

We would resist, put up a decent fight, take alot of the Imperials down with us. but we would lose, I never said we would win, just that it wouldn't be a easy victory.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Still disagree im afraid



Hooobit said:


> This is the issue, I've read all the gaunts ghost books (in fact i've just read "the founding" again in the last week) and when it comes down to it, everytime I look at an imperial unit then look at the Tanith I can't help but think that the Imperium is missing out. The way that they see people modifying or improving technology as heresy, the way that the imperial guard win by mostly shear numbers (with the Tanith being one of the only exceptions). I hate the majority of the imperium for the way they seem to look at technology and the way they spend lives. It's why im changing to a Tau force after I've finished my Tanith one.
> 
> That doesn't alter the outcome at all though. Plus there are an uncountable amount of guard Regiments, alot of which are just cannon fodder. Vitrian Dragoons aswell as many, many others would all be able to put up a fight as good as the Tanith and others
> 
> ...


And i dont even think we would inflict more casualties than them at all. The Imperium doesn't hesitate at the idea of eliminating huge swathes of civilians at the same time as the enemy troops. We wouldn't even put up a real good fight worthy or books and records. We would be flattened


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> We would lose, we might inflict substantially more casualties on them than they us, but that won't matter. We would put up one hell of a fight, sure, but we would be screwed from the word go.


See I don't think we would resist, at least not in the long run. Initially we'd be like "Go away and leave us alone, we don't want to be part of you Imperium." (maybe, some nations would probably be more like "Yes, oh great and glorious space men. We Believe!") That would all change however the moment the Imperium decided to play rough. Orbital strikes at the White House, maybe the Eiffel tower and other such monuments, they don't even have to kill anything (though they will). And if the governments don't fold the people will. After all, it's not likely the Imperium's gonna come in all "Bow and be our slaves." more likely is the approach we see in the HH novels "Rejoice brothers, you are alone no longer. Come, join us in glorious illumination." People are gonna eat that up, especially if the alternative is fiery death.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

It would be a decent fight, just as i've always agreed on, not one that we can win.

Although it is actually nice to see that this hasn't just turned into a dozen children shouting about how good the SM are.

Yea, lots of civilians would die. but i think we are actually going into the whole situation a bit deeper than necessary here (i know i started it). My point is that the Forces available to the current armies of Earth, would have a decent fight to give.

Besides, we wouldn't even fight if given the choice. we would just be Annexed into the imperium.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

To be fair you actually said that we would win in a ground fight, which is largely what sparked off me entering this debate, as we wouldn't, ever.

And yeah like MEQinc said we wouldn't even reisist for that long. The moment we saw just how powerful they were and the damage they could do we would surrender.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I'm inclined to believe that our troops would inflict more casulaties than they would take simply do to the nature of the fight and the tactics that would be used by your standard runofthemill regiment. From what I have seen, imperial guard troops lead the fight with massive walls of troops. That alone would seem to point to a higher kill ratio for our military. Although that is assuming we have time to mobilize troops. Many of which arn't currently based at home. By our standards, we would put up a good fight. But by imperial standards we would need to wipe out regiment, after regiment, after regiment to even begin to warrant a mention.

You both underestimate just how stubborn a beast humanity is. When you try and take away everything that we are, which could very well be the case, people will fight. All I know is that the south with go down in a blaze of whiskey induced glory.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

china could win in a purely ground based fight against an invading imperium army. Let alone a combined effort against say a good 20 or so countries.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

We don't carry enough ammo for a sustained firefight though. Your standard solider only carries 330 rounds of 5.56 on his person. And a machine gunner carries no more than 1000, and that is the equivalent of 10 minutes of firing. Whereas Lasguns can go for a fucking long time by the general look of things. We just wouldn't be able to keep it up. We wouldn't even try and face a paltoon sized strength that they would throw at us, we would pull back straight away and call in CAS, which at this point likely doesn't exist anymore


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

No they couldn't. How do you come to this conclusion? The Imperium has an infinite amount of manpower. They have more tanks that the population. I don't even know why we are arguing this. We CANNOT win, under any circumstance. Your answer seems to be to keep restricting Imperial resources and tactics to the point where we aren't fighting the Imperium at all anymore


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Hooobit said:


> china could win in a purely ground based fight against an invading imperium army. Let alone a combined effort against say a good 20 or so countries.


How do you figure? Numbers, the Imperiums got more. Training, the Imperiums is better. Experience, the Guards is greater. Technology, the Imperiums is the same or better. We have no advantage over them. They would wipe the floor with us if we resisted. 

Fortunately I place enough stock in humanities pure chicken-sh!t survival instinct and our ability to roll-over and surrender. Any resistance would be completely wasted, no one would notice (in the Imperium) and no one would care (again in the Imperium) and anyone who did (people on Earth) would dam well keep their mouths shut if they don't want to get wasted.

EDIT: Chicken-swooping hawks! lol


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

We arn't talking about earth Vs the imperium. We are talking about earth vs a imperial invasion force.

The 1/ a single chinese army has around a million soldiers, they have something like 27 armies.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I think they can get something close to 100 shots per cell, at average power. As far as the numb of cells your average troops has, I have no clue. Although our weapons arn't even designed for their kind of warfare. The 5.56 was, in part, designed to wound and not kill outright. It was meant to fight a civilized enemy; by wounding 1 man you could potentionally tie up 2-3 others. The imperium won't give a damn. They may even trample their wounded.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

They still have more than them. The Imeprium, even as an invasion force

Superior numbers - check
Superior technology - check
Superior weapons - check
Superior mindset to win - check
Willingless to not give a fuck about the civilians and collateral damage - check
Intact communications - check
Enemies communications knocked out rendering them uncordinated and helpess - check

Its a no brainer here


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> I think they can get something close to 100 shots per cell, at average power. As far as the numb of cells your average troops has, I have no clue. Although our weapons arn't even designed for their kind of warfare. The 5.56 was, in part, designed to wound and not kill outright. It was meant to fight a civilized enemy; by wounding 1 man you could potentionally tie up 2-3 others. The imperium won't give a damn. They may even trample their wounded.


Indeed, but 5.56 is likely not going to be able to penetrate carapace armour, it can't penetrate our body armour which isn't as good. Lasguns are going to be psychologically brutal aswell. Something you are all forgetting aswell. The psychological impact of being shot to peices by lasers and having an endless supply of relentless enemy thrown at you is going to break people on a massive scale


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

You forgot the most important check, aerial superiority.

Edit: Argh, double post ninja thingy!

Most imperial trooper don't use full carapace armor.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> You forgot the most important check, aerial superiority.


The Imperiums got that and Space superiority. The highest ground available. 



> Most imperial trooper don't use full carapace armor.


No, but Flak armour is still pretty impressive. And carpace armour is standard on all Imperial Specialists and common enough on more veteran regiments. 



Hooobit said:


> We arn't talking about earth Vs the imperium. We are talking about earth vs a imperial invasion force.
> 
> The 1/ a single chinese army has around a million soldiers, they have something like 27 armies.


So they have a regiment, good for them. The Imperium would send several.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Yeah our air support would cease to exist before the Imperial forces even began to deploy


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Um.... MEQinc,
By definition, space isn't ground. Lol 

Flack armor is fairly pathetic. I'm fairly sure a 7.62 would go through it.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

Since when has a single regiment in the Imperium been a million troops?

It says clearly in the end of _necropolis_ that "warmaster macaroth unleashed his might on the planet, 6 million guardsmen, half a million tanks, squads drawn from 3 chapters of the astartes and 2 titan legions" 

Now im not sure if im reading the correctly but it looks to me like macaroth has pulled a pretty big chunk of his fighting force to help out at verghast. And my maths arn't great but i think that 6million guardsmen don't outnumber 27million and counting chinese peoples.

And when has a million guardsmen ever been qouted as being a regiment?


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Um.... MEQinc,
> By definition, space isn't ground. Lol


Dam, you caught me. Now my whole argument is useless. Nooooo.



> Flack armor is fairly pathetic. I'm fairly sure a 7.62 would go through it.


Debatable, depending largely on how dangerous we chose to make the weapons of 40k. In any case, a lasgun will be equally effective against our troops.



> Since when has a single regiment in the Imperium been a million troops?


Apparently never, though one would expect that they would have to be around that size before the Imperium would start referring to them as "massive", or detailing the "shear size" of such regiments. Also given that many worlds in the Imperium have populations in the trillions and are required to send 1/10th of their PDF a year (more if there's actually a war that needs fighting) I would imagine that some regiments would easily be this size. 



> It says clearly in the end of necropolis that "warmaster macaroth unleashed his might on the planet, 6 million guardsmen, half a million tanks, squads drawn from 3 chapters of the astartes and 2 titan legions"
> 
> Now im not sure if im reading the correctly but it looks to me like macaroth has pulled a pretty big chunk of his fighting force to help out at verghast. And my maths arn't great but i think that 6million guardsmen don't outnumber 27million and counting chinese peoples.


He scraped together 6 million men in a month, from all over a massive scale war, that's pretty decent. However, I think that the 'might' the quote is referring to likely has more to do with the Space Marines and Titan legions, also scrapped together in a month. 

So congratulations, you have more people than they can get highly-trained killing machines in a month. You want a medal? Cause they're still gonna steam-roller you.



> And when has a million guardsmen ever been qouted as being a regiment?


See above, it is not a quote but a logical assumption, feel free to disagree.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

7.62 is stopped by our soldiers regular body armour, so go figure.

And i serverly doubt that whas Maccroths full force, it would be his vanguard probably. Read Eisenhorn? That gives a pretty amazing account of a crusading army that is nowhere near the scale of the Sabbat Crusades. 

And the Chinese military currently numbers just over 2 million men, hardly 27 million.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

Not his full force, but from the description it looks like what he could spare at that point.

I thought that the current 5.7x28mm ammunition could pentrate body armour ( i know that this is more of an uncommon type of round)

What are the Eisenhorn horn books about?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well 2 million active troops with a population that would allow for those numbers fairly easily given the number of service age citizens they have.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

Also the chinese gouvernment has national service in place, so every student currently at university or higher education can be called up to fight. Thats alot of people.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Hooobit said:


> Also the chinese gouvernment has national service in place, so every student currently at university or higher education can be called up to fight. Thats alot of people.


Sure. How many of them have actually fought before? How many of them have lead entire lives of violence? They can call on them, whoopty-do. The Imperium can all upon every single person in the Imperium (indeed they do, some just serve by making weapons instead of shooting them). Their regiments are all the fiercest, most [email protected]$$ men alive. I thin it might even be debatable calling them men at this point.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I personally know and work with someone who was hit in the chest by a 7.62 round in a firefight. It flung him off the WMIK he was on and dazed him, but then he just said "what the fuck was that?!" got up quite pissed off, got back behind his .50cal and started bringing walls down. Good bloke ^^

And exactly, they can call up those people, but they aren't trained soldiers, they will be useless in a firefight, and its gonna be hard to call up all these people without all main forms of communications gone and no satelite imagery to see where the enemy is and to co-ordinat against them. And yeah, the Imperium can just keep calling more troops.


EDIT: oh and Eisenhorn is about and Inquisitor of the same name and his exploits. But in the second book he happens to be on a planet as the crusading army triumphantly parades through, and its from reading that, that i truely got a perspective on just how large the forces are the Imperium can muster and not even for a major huge crusade. Its quite awe insipringly large. Amazing book series, i fully recomend it


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

At AoB, 
That dude sounds like my kind of crazy. (not that I am anywhere close to that kind of badass, but you know what I mean. Lol)

No trooper is totally useless. Alone they are pathetic, but in mass it could be a bitch.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> No trooper is totally useless. Alone they are pathetic, but in mass it could be a bitch.


That's exactly the Guards logic. So the problem with China's recruit army is that a) the Guard have greater numbers and b) the Guard have superior training. Either individually can be overcome, but if you're relying on numbers to beat a numerically superior foe you're screwed. Plain and simple.


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## Imperial Valor (Sep 1, 2010)

My thoughts:

Ever seen the film 300?
Superior numbers=epic faiL if the numbers are in a tight, narrow space fighting better trained soldiers

I don't know how fast Imperial Fighters can go, but an F-22 Raptor could just lock onto it and blow it up.

Naval:
I actually don't know much about the Imperial Sea Forces (Imperial Navy is actually the Space Ships)

What we have:
Good training
Home advantage


What the Imperials have:
Titans
The option to orbitally bombard the crap out of us
Numbers
Years of selective breeding
Astrates possibly
LASER GUNS, THEY HAVE LASE GUNS FOR GOD'S SAKE, WE DON'T!!
Adamantium and Ceramite armour.
The 1000s of years of war experience.
1000s of years of selective breeding


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

The Imperial fleet pulls into Earth orbit. At some point we decide that we don't want to play with them, so they decide to slap us around a bit. 
Firstly, they could quite easily destroy the satellites that we depend on for navigation and communication. Once they do that, the more advanced military nations have lost most of whatever advantage they have. No more stand-off use of Cruise missiles, no more real-time battlefield info.
Sitting in orbit, if they don't fancy getting dirty, they could just start taking out power stations and water treatment plants. This won't be hard as even a shot that's not spot-on is going to cause a hell of a lot of damage. It is these actions that would push us to surrender, moreso than fighting, as modern society is totally unprepared for such things to happen and majorly unwilling to put up with the hardships that would follow.
If it came down to fighting, then even our greatest weapons (outside of nukes) wouldn't really help, because we don't have the manouverabilty to match those coming down from orbit. BY the time we've redeployed to face the threat, the fighting will be done. All that we'll do by transporting troops and materiel would be to provide tempting targets for the IN. If it did come down to fighting then no matter how good our MBTs are, there are two big problems. There are so few of them and, if they do get seriously damaged, they are complex to repair. However, there would be no need to actually fight them; an Astartes, or even Stormtrooper, strike on the refuelling/repair/rearming depot would effectively take them out of any fighting- without fuel they're going nowhere.
With all of these things going on, I don't think that there would be any need to a full-scale invasion. In fact the political divisions of our world would probably hamstring us utterly, with different countries wanting to join the Imperium and others resisting, some for personal gain, some to make others countries have a hard time and others for ideological reasons.
I suppose you could say that any race that can travel interstellar distances and make threats of violence will be able to take out any race that isn't able to make free use of space, even within its own planetary system.

GFP


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> The Imperial fleet pulls into Earth orbit. At some point we decide that we don't want to play with them, so they decide to slap us around a bit.
> Firstly, they could quite easily destroy the satellites that we depend on for navigation and communication. Once they do that, the more advanced military nations have lost most of whatever advantage they have. No more stand-off use of Cruise missiles, no more real-time battlefield info.
> Sitting in orbit, if they don't fancy getting dirty, they could just start taking out power stations and water treatment plants. This won't be hard as even a shot that's not spot-on is going to cause a hell of a lot of damage. It is these actions that would push us to surrender, moreso than fighting, as modern society is totally unprepared for such things to happen and majorly unwilling to put up with the hardships that would follow.
> If it came down to fighting, then even our greatest weapons (outside of nukes) wouldn't really help, because we don't have the manouverabilty to match those coming down from orbit. BY the time we've redeployed to face the threat, the fighting will be done. All that we'll do by transporting troops and materiel would be to provide tempting targets for the IN. If it did come down to fighting then no matter how good our MBTs are, there are two big problems. There are so few of them and, if they do get seriously damaged, they are complex to repair. However, there would be no need to actually fight them; an Astartes, or even Stormtrooper, strike on the refuelling/repair/rearming depot would effectively take them out of any fighting- without fuel they're going nowhere.
> ...


Precisely. If any space faring race came upon us, we would either join them or be destroyed by them, it's as simple as that imo. We have no hope of beating anything that advanced, despite what the films may lead you to believe.


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

We have one weapon that the Imperium could not match; we have Psy-war-ops (Physiological war operations). We would wait until they were in range and then flood their vox with songs from Susan Boyle. Total torture… fleet turns around… f#ck off. End of invasion


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Precisely. If any space faring race came upon us, we would either join them or be destroyed by them, it's as simple as that imo. We have no hope of beating anything that advanced, despite what the films may lead you to believe.


As long as we have Will Smith, we shall endure.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Imperial Valor said:


> My thoughts:
> 
> Ever seen the film 300?
> Superior numbers=epic faiL if the numbers are in a tight, narrow space fighting better trained soldiers


so all we have to do is force to come at us from one specific direction, preferably through a mountain pass or similar. Unfortunately, the Imperium can land any where they want and complete surround us. Superior numbers=easy victory if they have the enemy surrounded. Not to mention the fact that the Imperial Guard will be better trained and more experienced than almost anything we can throw at them. 



> I don't know how fast Imperial Fighters can go, but an F-22 Raptor could just lock onto it and blow it up.


Assuming that it can lock on and penetrate it's armour of course. We have no idea what kind of anti-lock equipment they have, or how durable their fighters are to conventional weaponry. 



> Naval:
> I actually don't know much about the Imperial Sea Forces (Imperial Navy is actually the Space Ships)


They don't really have a navy (as in for sea). Some Guard regiments include boats (primarily from heavily water-based worlds) but beyond that it's pretty nonexistent. That being said, they don't need one. They have an air force that can deploy from orbit and resupply there as well. Kinda makes boats irrelevant.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Brother Emund said:


> We have one weapon that the Imperium could not match; we have Psy-war-ops (Physiological war operations). We would wait until they were in range and then flood their vox with songs from Susan Boyle. Total torture… fleet turns around… f#ck off. End of invasion


If that fails we could hit them with the Bieber bomb, no music or anything, we just throw Justin Bieber at them really fucking hard!


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I think if we exposed them to Bieber or Suebo they would order exterminatus, best we kill them and wipe all records of the both of them before they find out

And poor Will Smith

*Runs up to drop pod, doors open*
"Welcome to Ea-
*Astartes emerge"
"earth...."


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Noisy cricket+Will Smith * tall Jewish dude= Win.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

As bad as this arguement is getting..... If a Ork tech can kill an Imperium fighter, how is it that our fighters would not be better, if not a match?

The standard fighters of the imperium are the Lightning, Lightning Strike and the Thunderbolt.

Speed:
Each of the 3 fighters has a maximum speed of around 2200-2400km/h. 
Eurofighter typhoon as 2,495km/h effectively around the same mark then.
A draw. Eurofighter 0.5, imperium 0.5 

Armaments:
The standard weapons on a imperial fighter are..... line of sight guns and a maximum of upto a whole 6 missiles(max of 6 on the lightning strike). 
*Autocannons & lascannons, 100-400 rounds for the autocannon and only 30 shots for the lascannon.
*Hellstrike missiles, thunderbolt can have upto 4 bombs if not missiles
Standard armament of a Eurofighter typhoon. 
*27 mm Mauser BK-27 Revolver cannon with 150 rounds
* 13 Harspoints that can carry (including but not limited to), Various Air-to-air missiles, Various Air-to-Ground missiles, Laserguided bombs, "dumb" bombs, Bunker buster bombs, Additional electronic counter measures and even Drop away fule tanks giving extended range.
Eurofighter wins. EuroFighter 1.5, imperium 0.5

Maneuverability:
Imperial fighters are Flying bricks, more engine than plane in most cases.
The Eurofighter is one of the most maneuverable planes known about today, designed to fly fast and agile. It's better aerodynamically than any of the other 3 Imperial fighters.
Eurofighter wins. Eurofighter 2.5, Imperium 0.5

Survivability:
The imperial fighters have between 30-45mm of armour, Gunfire from small calibre weapons won't do much against it. It's a safe bet that it's ot explosive reactive armour cos on a plane, that would pretty much fuck it up in flight. It has countermeasures
such as flares and chaff. The imperium is more focused on heavy armour than secondary systems like optics or targeting aids.
Eurofighter Typhoon relies on high maneuverability, a low radar cross section (combined with the use of Radar Absorbant Materials) and countermeasures such as Flares & chaff and Electronic coutermeasure that can jam or misdirect radar guided weapons.
I'd say a draw, whilst the Imperial fighters can take more Gunfire, missiles are designed to to destroy Hard targets, a smaller missile such as a Sidewinder might not completely destroy the Imperial fighters but it would at the very least cripple it or cause it to be taken out of the sky by the blast force affecting its trajectory. The combination of electronic countermeasures, regular countermeasures, high maneuverability and a low radar cross section aid it's survivability. 
Draw, Eurofighter Typhoon 3, Imperium 1

See where this is going, the Imperial fighters are a blunt force relying on heavy cannons and thick armour and pure brute speed. Where as the Eurofighter (and most of the current "earth" figthers) is a weapon of finesse, it's more versatile in roles than the Imperial fighters in atmosphere, its much more maneuverable, it has better in flight systems and countermeasures against attacks. It even has better optics for night flying and smarter targeting arrays.

Our planes are a combination of technology that we understand and constantly improve, valueing speed, maneuverability, onboard technology and weapon versatility over heavy armour and big guns.

Also, if a fighters main weapons are cannons and some hellstrike missiles, How can it be said that they are better than using nukes in a space combat?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Proble, begins when all our air bases are destroyed from orbit, they would establish air superiority that way, destroy all airfields and satelite from orbit, then send in their own aircraft, which would now be largely unopposed


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

After much reading, I have come up with a singular way to prevent the first stages of the "assualt on earth" or at least cripple the first wave Invaders.

It has previously been established that Imperial technology is succeptable to Radiation caused interference (comm systems crashing etc.), a singular missile gets sent up into our orbit (with the assumption that we already have this capability) and gets destroyed by the point-deffense-systems of the imperial navy, now we would know the ffective range of point deffense, after that a nuke would be launched at the ships but detonate before the range of the point deffense systems (eliminating any CAP in the blast radius and causing mass interference in comm systems and scanning systems). In the wake of a first detonation several nukes would be sent up to take advantage of this momentary lapse in the deffense of the orbitting ships, causing massive damage if not destroying many of them. This would most probably result in virus bombing or exterminatus by any other fleet sent in to deal with us however.

In reference to the problem that you stated about the Imperial fleet destroying airfields from orbit, They would have no knowledge of where they are, they are attacking an Earth that they either A) have only just found or B) is the orginal earth that they have no records on due to the massive time difference.

We have currently got the advantage of having vast detailled information on orbital capabilities, deployment plans and unit capabilities. We know their streangths and weaknesses, they would know only that we are human.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

We are assuming we are getting invaded by a 'regular' guard army, of which no such thing exists, we have infromation yes, but in the vast scope and variation of the guard, chances are we aren't going to know that much. And thats assuming that nuke plan even works, the range of their defence grid is probably more than adaquate to not be even phased by a nuke detonating before its range. The fact that only the picket ships would be that close, and on the outstandinly small chance they do get taken out, the other ships would then pound us into oblivion.

I'm fairly certain they could find the airfields easily enough, they do have massively advanced scanning systems and it wouldn't take them long to work out where the airfields are before destroying them and even if they did not initially, they would soon find out once deployed.

Again we think we know a great deal about their capablilites, but in truth we know fuck all in the grand scheme of things. The Imperium is simply too vast to really comprehend, and the massive variation of what could be thrown at us is beyond imagining.

No matter how much you try and sugarcoat this, we can't win, its join them or die, we won't get any initial win followed up by another fleet to vaporise us, we would be soundly defeated by the first wave.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

Im not trying to suger coat it, more like coat it in salt to cover the taste of shit (cos lets face it, getting pretty much wiped out, would be shit). We would get a proper battering, but it wouldn't be the completely one sided thing that you guys keep saying about. 

Besides, we need to be focusing on the Gregory House deffense......


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

Steal a Thunderhawk, dress up in power armour, load up with a nuke and simply fly up to the main battle barge, go inside, set off nuke
_"Welcome to Earth"_


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

If terra came to earth they would probably force integration and eliminate mutants "genetic deformity's that are natural and not wrong" then I would become a space marine as I am young enough to still and then I would fall to chaos become a spawn and do whatever I liked.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

aboytervigon said:


> If terra came to earth they would probably force integration and eliminate mutants "genetic deformity's that are natural and not wrong" then I would become a space marine as I am young enough to still and then I would fall to chaos become a spawn and do whatever I liked.


fairly certain you and pretty much every other person your age or younger aren't up to the requirements to become an Astartes unfortunaetly


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Your right ill just join a chaos cult and become a spawn anyway I could then just do what I wanted cause no one cares about a spawn.


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## comrade (Jun 30, 2008)

Hooobit said:


> Im not trying to suger coat it, more like coat it in salt to cover the taste of shit (cos lets face it, getting pretty much wiped out, would be shit). We would get a proper battering, but it wouldn't be the completely one sided thing that you guys keep saying about.
> 
> Besides, we need to be focusing on the Gregory House deffense......


oh, it would be one sided, your own plan (the nuclear one) would cause a back blast that would destroy/ion blast all our satellites in space.

Results:

No GPS
No Tracking
No Satellite surveillance
No Telecommunications.

We would be screwed. All our advanced tech we got. Gone. Fighter jets..... lolz... unless we re activate out old Radar Bases their done. all of our defense systems, designed to stop missiles do jack shit against a laser beam.

Flak Armour will stop a 5.56mm bullet, even 40k autoguns are basically more high tech then current weaponry we issue troops which have an AP of -. Our armour will not stop a single las beam. 

Earth VS. Imperium.

Major Resistance: 3-6 months

Minor Resistance (terror cells, militias, roving bands, Americans with guns):
1-2 years 

The reason for short minor Resistance: unlike standard Earth Forces, Imperial forces can and will murder whole towns for reprisal, sure killing will make them more pissed off, but when you have not the threat of a soldier killing you and our family, you have the threat of a freaking laser beam coming out of the sky and destroying your whole freaking town and then flamethrower squads coming in aftewards to clean up... yeah.... we're fucked.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

I think that genetically speaking, we would all be classed as mutant or genetically deffective. A good 38K years of slow evolution and exposure to radiation and new chemicals would have changed them so whilst they may look the same as us, they robably would have those subtle differences in gentic code so that we seem almost mutated from them.

As far as becoming a chaos spawn, IF you were successfull, you wouldn't live very long cos I can't really see the Imperium going "ah well it's only one little chaos spawn, we'll let him go for now.... Run along little guy" Be more like "Shit me!!, blast that bloody thing!!!"


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Awesome I freaked out a space marine in my short life.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

More likely a regular guardsman.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Hooobit said:


> I think that genetically speaking, we would all be classed as mutant or genetically deffective. A good 38K years of slow evolution and exposure to radiation and new chemicals would have changed them so whilst they may look the same as us, they robably would have those subtle differences in gentic code so that we seem almost mutated from them.
> 
> As far as becoming a chaos spawn, IF you were successfull, you wouldn't live very long cos I can't really see the Imperium going "ah well it's only one little chaos spawn, we'll let him go for now.... Run along little guy" Be more like "Shit me!!, blast that bloody thing!!!"


 
Arghhh why the dark blue! have to highlight the text to read it without forcing my eyes to focus on the text!


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

Just thought it would be funny to make people work to read my opinions, that and my screen is just right so i can see it perfectly well


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## Imperial Valor (Sep 1, 2010)

We'd introduce Subway to them and they'd leave us be 

Jokes aside though, We'd "Officially" accept the Imperium, however, there obviously would still be the hassle of religion, skitsofrenics going mad about an alien invasion, and most likely rioting on the streets.

The response from the governments would be, look what they have to offer, blah blah blah, greater good. TBH, they'd just be pressured into joining from the threat of rebellion, or annihilation, or both.

If it came to the Imperium saying, "Look, you're kind of tainted, so we'll take the non-tainted civilians along with us, and blow you up." Then all hell would break loose, people would be queuing to be taint checked by Librarians, those who are successful get to go with them. Everyone else doesn't. There'd be riots, looting, everything imaginable, and a strike at the invaders, which would mean they leave quicker.

My other scenario is similar, the Imperium gives the planet the choice of joining. If it says no then all of those who want to go with the Imperium board their ships and go along with the, the planet again goes into riot before being blown up.


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

I don't think the Imperium would even bother to give the non-tainted citizens the option to join them. They would just leave them with the others and Annihilate them all from space. However, I think that the people of Earth, after a wee period of defiance, would bow to their new masters and live in relative harmony. There would be some resistance, as there always is. But can you imagine the Taliban being hunted down by the IG, or even worse, totally sense-of-humour-free Astarte’s!


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

Hooobit said:


> I think that genetically speaking, we would all be classed as mutant or genetically deffective. A good 38K years of slow evolution and exposure to radiation and new chemicals would have changed them so whilst they may look the same as us, they robably would have those subtle differences in gentic code so that we seem almost mutated from them.
> 
> As far as becoming a chaos spawn, IF you were successfull, you wouldn't live very long cos I can't really see the Imperium going "ah well it's only one little chaos spawn, we'll let him go for now.... Run along little guy" Be more like "Shit me!!, blast that bloody thing!!!"


Ah! Why did you make the font blue? I fried my brain trying to read this! All I got out of this was IF


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

For those that think we'd put up a decent fight, it really all depends on who the Imperium sends. IG sure, we'd probably be able to take out a fair few of them before we are defeated. The problem there is, that's what they're there for. If the Imperium bothers to send a full company of terminators plus all their regular support ie predator tanks, thunderhawks etc. we'd be fucked pretty quickly.

And for those who think that the Orks are a benchmark to compare our own tech with, newsflash, Ork tech is actually superior to Imperial tech in many aspects. Also, they have the psychic waaagh field which gives them a big advantage. Just because they believe it's possible, Orks can increase the speed of their vehicles simply by giving it a new red paint job. Not something to take lighly. In fact, I'd be willing to say that if a fairly decent sized Waaagh landed on Earth that we'd also be wiped out pretty quickly. But that's a debate for another thread.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

If we're trying to be honest, all the IN fleet would have to do is choose one, or a couple of cities and blow it off the globe. Allow that to sink in for a bit and then make the ultimatum. If we lost, say, London, Beijing, New York, Moscow and, say, Paris, then who would ever say yes to fighting? There might be a few nutters, but you'd not get a proper military to go into a warzone against such a foe. Even if the government gave the order, you're looking at mass mutinies as the soldiers decide an uncertainfate is better than certain death.

GFP


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Let me give you a basic summery of what would happen.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> If we're trying to be honest, all the IN fleet would have to do is choose one, or a couple of cities and blow it off the globe. Allow that to sink in for a bit and then make the ultimatum. If we lost, say, London, Beijing, New York, Moscow and, say, Paris, then who would ever say yes to fighting? There might be a few nutters, but you'd not get a proper military to go into a warzone against such a foe. Even if the government gave the order, you're looking at mass mutinies as the soldiers decide an uncertainfate is better than certain death.
> 
> GFP


Not to mention that anyone who'd still be willing to fight after getting a few cities blown up would probably piss themselves if they saw a titan coming at them. Or even just a couple of squads of space marines for that matter.


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