# Most Competitive? Black Templar, Nidzilla, or Jetbike Eldar?



## Thursdayisgod (Apr 1, 2009)

I cannot decide between these three armies:

Black Templar: They were ranked on BOLS as one of the 5 best armies right now, despite all the deragatory (sic?) comments made about SM lately. Apparently Most Preferred Enemy got a lot of boosts in 5th and they have it against everyone.

Nidzilla: Footslogging seems like a good way to loose a lot of games, but I have very limited experiences, so maybe I'm wrong here.

Jetbike Eldar: I really want a mobile army, it seems like a pretty emphasized necessicity to a successful army, and naturally this is the most mobile army available. The lack of durability seems like a major issue and Eldar seem hard to paint (and I'd have to convert Warlocks/Farseers onto Jetbikes) which for a new player apperas pretty difficult.

I'm open to advice and comparisons between these three, but as of right now I like all three way too much to commit to one. How can I better finalize my decision?


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

I'd say they are all pretty equal actually. 

Well, I have no experience with the Templar but I did read the article at BoLS. Nidzilla is still very strong, especially shooty (lots and lots of wounds can be dealt) however it is usually limited on troop choices, and the ones they have are pretty weak... Usually you aim to wipe their troop choices from the board.

Eldar Jetbikes - Hmmmm, regular jetbikes ain't that powerful, ESPECIALLY if you get first turn on them (before you can fortune). They also fall pretty quick to mass firepower at any decent strength. For instance, my nob bikers (10) and warboss can put out 33 twin linked shots that wound on 3s followed by a brutal charge. That being said, seer councils on bikes are pretty durable with their rerollable 4+ invuln and 3+ armour. However, they are not a major offensive unit with many of them having only 1-2 attacks that, granted, wound on a 2+ but are not power weapons.


In the end, however, I would probably go with either the Templar or the eldar as 2/3 missions are dependent on troops.


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## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

Mech, mech, mech. It's all about the mech.


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## Gunstar (Feb 25, 2009)

To answer the original post- it depends on your build. BT's are very good in the right hands, Nidzilla can be awesome, and JB Eldar as long as you have seer council and farseer on bikes then yes- extremely competitive. It rally comes down to play style and personnal preference.

There is no "I WIN" button in 40k....


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

Gunstar said:


> There is no "I WIN" button in 40k....


says the guy with the warboss avatar...

mixed units of nob bikers w/ warboss bikers to make them troops are nasty nasty nasty... while not necessarily an "I WIN" button they're pretty damned close:biggrin:


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## Thursdayisgod (Apr 1, 2009)

I mean I know they are all different play styles, I've read a lot about all of them but I still can't decide. I think I've read Eldar and "glass hammer" in the same sentence about 500 times so far.

They are all so different though I really have difficulty comparing their effectiveness in a "tournament" style setting. I looked at results from the big UK tournaments and see Eldar/Orks/Chaos to dominate, but Eldar seem too difficult to play effectively for a beginner. Nidzilla appears to be in a downward spiral from the previous addition, and BOLS is the only place I've heard Black Templars as competative (plus this forum seems to think SM are the worst army out there right now).

Given this I will probably play Nidzilla, they seem the easiest army to be win with (outside of Orks).


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

... well this is a site dedicated to _heresy..._ which may influence the anti SM feel...

if you want a pro SM board you could try bolter & chainsword...

but heresy's better.


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## Thursdayisgod (Apr 1, 2009)

Well, it's that I'm noticing SM players claiming that their army sucks


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Regular SM do suck.

And I laugh alot at nidzilla. I think they're adorable. 

"No troops you say? Seven KP minimum? Fantastic."

Statistically jetbike eldar in the right hands are the best of the three, but templar, with correct listbuilding and target choices come out ahead. But they take more effort to play than nidzilla.

And Orks are the I-win button for 40k. Statistically.


But my vote goes to Black Templar. I love playing as them and everybody is afraid of melee when I hit the board. It's nice.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Gunstar said:


> There is no "I WIN" button in 40k....


although marine players did want it as a upgrade for the characters, the don't like playing the game to win, the think they deserve to by birth right :laugh:


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

m3rr3k said:


> says the guy with the warboss avatar...
> 
> mixed units of nob bikers w/ warboss bikers to make them troops are nasty nasty nasty... while not necessarily an "I WIN" button they're pretty damned close:biggrin:


I fail to see how nob bikers are still an "I WIN" button. There are countless sites out there with numerous strategies, units, etc for dealing with nob bikers effectively. Yes, they can be nasty if not prepared for but they are also a lot of points. I use a squad in my army (now more for an annoyance/intimidate factor) but I think my regular boyz and lootas do a bang up job.

I've had my nob bikers crippled a few times by numerous strategies - A couple off of my head

Nids /w implant attack
Lash and vindicator
Eldar Falcons bristling with str 8 weapons
space wolves /w way too many power fists in 1 unit

Hahha, ok, rant off - back to topic!


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Crimzzen said:


> Nids /w implant attack(Not competitive with any other list)
> Lash and vindicator
> Eldar Falcons bristling with str 8 weapons(Place the wounds on warboss. 4+ save, if he fails, he's down a wound)
> space wolves /w way too many power fists in 1 unit(This is valid actually, but will probably vacate in the next codex.
> ...


They're just a little too much bang for the buck. They alone have forced most of the tournament players to gear their list simply in case somebody brings them. They're point effective to the point of being disgusting.

It simply comes down to that they're too good. Against a good marine list, you just stomp. And they fall down.

Although regular orks are also disgusting. God damnit Phil Kelly. You and your bad balance issues.


Strangely though I don't mind seeing nob bikers. Templar usually just laugh and throw neophytes in while powerfisting away.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I think the tournament scene has adjusted to nobz bikers now. More powerfists, basically. They have real problems if they lose a combat in this way as they will often be broken below half strength, and run off taking their warboss with them.


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## englhockey (Mar 19, 2009)

a few nid blastes on nob bikers and there done just a 4+ cover save nothing else, 3 carnifexs drop them on them and bye bye exspensive weak orks on bikes, then i drop a few more to thin out the hordes and 8 gene stealers kill the rest of the squad, did i forget to mention the tyrant with lashwhip and bone sword, and 2 guards bringing orks attacks to 1. orks are easy to beat with nidds.

back on topic nidds are a good pick, not sure about eldar never lost to them. and black templar seem pretty solid. i like chances with nidds, but its all on whos playin them and how much you like the style


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## spacecurves (Jan 29, 2008)

*Looking to pwn?*

I would vote against nidzilla, I actually think its not a very good army in 5th edition, and it seems pretty boring to play. I would also vote against eldar, because they do not have any good way to deal with horde orks or IG.

Regular space marines are very good in experienced hands, don't let popular opinion dissuade you if you are otherwise interested. In very rough terms, there are two best space marine armies, those based around Vulkan Hestan with tons of flamers and Multi-meltas, and those based around Pedro and two squads (no more, no less) of sternguard. 

Whichever build you choose, space marine tactics revolve around close ranged firepower and flawless rhino handling. Having a couple drop pods in your force is likely a good idea with IG marching onto the tournament scene.

Lastly, don't believe everything you read on BoLS.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Go with the army you think would be fun to play, or whose models you like. Don't go with what you think will win the most because eventually the rules change and what's on top now may not be later, but the models and basic play style remain.


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## Haekmo (Mar 1, 2009)

all pends on your build, you can ask a hundred different people, everyone has a different perception and different tactics.. id say ive seen nidzilla army's go further in tournies, fallowed by elder jet bikelists... but templers are a strong list... its wot you can make of a army, your thinking on your feet, your idea's and knowledge of the rules that will make you a strong oponent. 
Pick a army that you will enjoy to play and paint, even if there was a best army/list, would it really be fun doing the same thing every tournie/ game??

What ever you pick, best of luck

haek


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

Pick something you want to play and paint and convert. I have been playing the hobby for a long time and although Chaos is my first love, (and Orks), I like to play different armies and paint and collect different things. Keeps Gamesworkshop happy and my wife angry.

Well, to be fair, she likes it that I have something to keep me quiet and busy. She just does'nt like the expenditure.

I built an Eldar army a couple of years ago as I fancied a change in playing style and I have always loved the models and the fact each unit can be different colours. I am currently working on marines at the moment after which I may dust off my Imperial guard to paint up or even my 2nd edition space wolves if the codex is out soon.

Choose something that you want to do as opposed to someones opinion on what may or may not make a great tournament army.


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## BloodAngelsfan (Jan 22, 2009)

From my limited experience, the Nids can be quite effective at both melee and range, so are a good choice (Carnifex with two sets of Scything Talons plus Gaunts with devourers = pwnage =D) but it inevitably comes down to how you want your army to fight. Be it rapid strikes, versatility, ranged the choice is yours. I have not painted Eldar but I do field an SM army and a Nid army and i can tell you, they are both fun to paint.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Nidzilla is, IMO, a lot weaker than most people think...a 4th Ed hangover more than likely.
Chaos or Orks are the most forgiving competitive lists. SM are good, if handled properly. Eldar aren't a good army for a beginner to attempt, IMO. BTs are therefore your best bet.


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## Crimson_Chin (Feb 20, 2009)

Hah. Eldar was and still is my main army, and I lost quite a number of battles when I started ... but ultimately it all comes down to how you feel comfortable playing. I like dancing around my opponents and pummeling them with shootyness. You might not.

I.E. I just started playing SM. Lost qutie a few battles until I learned that my deployment is now CRUCIAL. It's just different.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

Jetseer would be the most competitive.

EDIT: Yay Post 100


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## shimmiy (Apr 13, 2009)

I run a heavy guns Eldar list and so far it is pretty dominant. their heavy amount of armor ignoring shots and great survivability really plays out on the field. i field starcannons and scatter lasers with a few bright lances and it tends to rip things up pretty good. my mathhammer friend has me a list that is statistically best set up for dealing with MEQ's and it shines on the field. nothing is more enjoyable that killing landraiders on my first turn. 

the main issue with the eldar list is their lack of horde countering. when i play melee heavy hordes i get stomped pretty bad, because im not pumping out enough volume of shots. 

there is a horde counter, but i dont personally own it. a squadron of war walkers with scatter lasers = high volume of powerful shots. terrible armor means they will die quick, but with a 36 inch range strength 6 volley of 24 shots a round, things are bound to die. and its possible to take 3 squadrons of them, bringing that number to 72(!) strength 6 shots per round. thats enough shots to make any horde army jealous.


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## Wounded (Jan 24, 2009)

shimmiy said:


> I run a heavy guns Eldar list and so far it is pretty dominant. their heavy amount of armor ignoring shots and great survivability really plays out on the field. i field starcannons and scatter lasers with a few bright lances and it tends to rip things up pretty good. my mathhammer friend has me a list that is statistically best set up for dealing with MEQ's and it shines on the field. nothing is more enjoyable that killing landraiders on my first turn.
> 
> the main issue with the eldar list is their lack of horde countering. when i play melee heavy hordes i get stomped pretty bad, because im not pumping out enough volume of shots.
> 
> there is a horde counter, but i dont personally own it. a squadron of war walkers with scatter lasers = high volume of powerful shots. terrible armor means they will die quick, but with a 36 inch range strength 6 volley of 24 shots a round, things are bound to die. and its possible to take 3 squadrons of them, bringing that number to 72(!) strength 6 shots per round. thats enough shots to make any horde army jealous.


Dire Avengers are also great for anti-horde


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Eldar was my first army, and after a many years of never using them till the end of 4th Edition I began to play finally. It was.. er... difficult. But I got the hang of them now and they rock when you get what you want to specify against.

Nids are nasty period. When they first erupted it was disgusting. but there ethier Assualty or slightly shooty then assualty. 

BTs... watever...


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## terminatormonkey (May 6, 2009)

from what ive seen a balanced nid army is the more threatining nid army


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

Eldar can handle hordes pretty well actually, War Walkers-Dire Avengers-Striking Scorpions-Warp Spiders all come to mind immediately. There are a ton of blast options available as well, only a few but they are every where. Fire Prisms can work against all infantry and maybe a tank if you really really need it. Swooping Hawk templates work well and their grenades really help against tanks (who should panic if they are within 24") A small seer council can put out enough heavy flamer templates to make hordes cry. Harliquins work on the charge... But they cost too much for me to field nowadays.

What gets us is that if we build with one type of army in mind, we might neglect the others we would face. It is that all or nothing lifestyle. Gotta love it! Balanced lists are possible but more often then not they will lack the punch Eldar need to keep the enemy off their feet. 

I am using a new tactic for me, put out a ton of shots and wounds a turn my anti-horde, and hopefully enough that MEQ saves won't be enough to save Marines either.


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