# defiler or vindicator



## Keecai (May 10, 2010)

hello again heresy.

I need help deciding between 2 open heavy support slots i have on my converted csm army list. I want either a pr of defilers. Pr of vindis with possession or one of each. The points costs are so close it doesnt make much difference.

Does any one use them and how successful are they.

How do defilers fare in CC. Or is it worth keeping them out and using the battle cannon. 
(also slight rules query can them move and fire battle cannon?)

or is it better to sacrifice the range for the S10 demolisher cannon? 

Which would you choose and why???


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

its all down to what you face, ive used both, and find the vindi is great, add a havoc laucher to it for the extra range and keeps the vindi fireing till its main guns in range. as for the defilers, ive had mixed results with em, and the battle cannon always seems to miss with me, and yes they can move and fire the battle cannon, but if it moves it can only fire 1 weapon, i.e battle cannon or reaper auto cannon


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

Defilers in CC are a bit daft tbh, they will spend the entire game trying to kill 10guys in CC, when it should be firing out BC rounds. 

Its better in CC against other vehicles, not dreads though, they'll smash it in half...usually.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I personally like full-CC defilers, 5 CC attacks on a fleet walker that ignores most glancing hits is extremely nice. It's like a Dreadnought, but better. Just use the BC if you're not running that turn. Downside is the large model makes it an easy target.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I agree with Sethis the Defiler is a great unit but it's height as an actual model lets it down big time


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Go with the vindi, if you absolutely refuse to use Oblitz. Which is fine. Honest.


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## skipfit (Apr 1, 2009)

I like both units very much, but I favor defilers over vindicators. The main reason I favor the defiler is I feel it is more versatile. The defiler can assault or shoot where as the vindi can only shoot or tankshock. Plus fleet and demonic possesion are very nice. I like being able to threaten my opponent in multiple ways. The defiler does a better job at this. Play with them both and I'm sure you"ll find what you like best. On occassion I run them together. They support one another very well. Hope this was helpful.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

In terms of how fun and cool it is, I'd go the defiler. It's a very chaosy model, and is far more versatile in general. A far cooler model than just another tank.

That said, if just looking at which is more powerful, I'd probably choose the vindicator. Simply put, there are too many long range high strenght shots out there, so the extra point of armour, and lower profile (allowing an easier cover save) allow it more protection against all those missile shots that come your way. The extra strength and AP also make the shot more useful than the defilers shot, so it's got that going for it too.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I tend to take defilers since if modeled properly they can gain constant obscuring from firing from behind rhino chaise vehicles..


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## Anensenef (May 24, 2010)

just puttin this out there, belive the new rule for walkers is that it can fire all weapons when moving, and the defiler is a walker. anywhoo... i would personally go for a vindi w/ possesion, just sayin


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## Chumbalaya (May 17, 2010)

It depends on the rest of your army.

The Defiler is stompy and killy, but not as resilient to the front and tends to mix CC and shooting.

The Vindicator has an impressive gun, but it is very short ranged (making side shots on AV11 much easier) and cover really reduces its effectiveness.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Anensenef said:


> just puttin this out there, belive the new rule for walkers is that it can fire all weapons when moving, and the defiler is a walker. anywhoo... i would personally go for a vindi w/ possesion, just sayin


The Battlecannon is ordnance, and you can only fire one ordnance weapon. Best to just load of a Defiler with full DCCW's, and use the BC before you get close enough to fleet into an assault.


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## Malgron (Jan 6, 2010)

My opinion is that it is based on how you play.

Vindi packs a hell of a punch to things in front of it (barring cover). It also has good front armour, and a rhino body so you can cover it's sides with transports so you can push forward. Also, your opponent will know what it does, making it a standout target, or will flee until they have something to deal with it. It is great for smashing into the enemy as quick as possible and you can deploy it behind things easily.

It wont have much to do if the scatter will kill your own guys. Weapon destroyed will render it a wall. 


Defiler has much more range, with less power. He can fire the BC at things far away, offering an ordnance penetration hit with possible scatter. Closer in, he can switch to 2 S7 TL shots for a scatter-less hit against moderate armour, and then within 12-18 inches, he can flame+Reaper and assault, or fleet. His assault power is questionable against anything except vehicles. Where the Vindicator has the front armour and hiding ability to be deployed with you transports, A defiler is quite large, and will be hard to hide behind cover. Multiple weapons to help with weap destroyed.

My theory for use:

Defilers are unlike anything else, so I think you have to use them differently. 

If you get first turn, you deploy first. You have to either hide them or line them up for possible firing angles. Then your opponent can set up his units to kill them or hide from their fire. Likely you will just move and smoke, or fire at an enemy in the open.

If you go second, your opponent deploys, then you can set the defilers up to hide or get a shot on enemy after he moves. He could use 1st turn to kill them though.

I say keep them in reserve. They won't get into assault as fast, but that's more for CC dreads and things at the front of army. After turn 1 and enemy units start to move around, you will be able to see where to have them arrive on the table edge (far to one side for an ordnance shot on unit x, or on the other side to pop and assault outflanker y) without worrying about set up. Obliterators and Defilers have similar versatility but are protected against different weapons, Defiler is almost immune to small arms fire, AT could 1 hit kill, Oblit squads can withstand that 1 power hit, but massed light fire can kill)

Cheers


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## Zzzyax (May 18, 2010)

Defi all the way... mainly because i don't have a vindi. I just love bashing out a squad of 10 dire avengers or imperial guardsmen in one shot.. from basically anywhere on the map.

If you're lucky! pick the defi, of if on a map with plenty of open space for firing the BC directly.


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