# Space Marines in 5th ed. How much cheese is too much cheese?



## CENArtDamage (Dec 12, 2008)

Anyone else remember the old blood angels? I didn't think they could manage to fit that much cheese in the 5th ed. reprint, and I think I was right in thinking they lost a lot of power in the transition. So I'm wondering guys, what do you think is the best SM Chapter codex in current play, not in term of design or fluff, but in terms of powergaming and competitive play? 

I'm not asking for just a chapter name, as this isn't a fact thread. Being purely opinion, I want to know WHY you think this. What's your favorite play style and tactics, and what does this army give you that the other Chapters don't?


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## Ezekiface 73 (Oct 22, 2008)

I'd say either the Ultramarines, of the White Scars. Ultramarines having marneus Calgar with his overpowered AP 2 bolters, and the stuff with Chronus, Telion and all the other special charecters. White Scars with the Khan dude, and being able to have a all bike army, plus making everything Fleet. Thats my 2 cents.


Oh yeh, 175th post as wel....


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## marxalvia (Oct 6, 2008)

Ezekiface 73 said:


> I'd say either the Ultramarines, of the White Scars. Ultramarines having marneus Calgar with his overpowered AP 2 bolters, and the stuff with Chronus, Telion and all the other special charecters. White Scars with the Khan dude, and being able to have a all bike army, plus making everything Fleet. Thats my 2 cents.


Actually, any SM chapter can take any special character. (SM codex pg 127).




I will stay with the Iron Hands chapter, mostly because I started building my army around that chapter on the 4th edition. Since the 5th edition, I have not lost any of my advantages, if I take a Master of the forge, and I have lost all my weaknesses:good:. (only having 1 squad of any fast attack vehicles).


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## Riddlecakes (Oct 13, 2008)

White Scars...


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

This is not an Army List
Moved to 40k General


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## CENArtDamage (Dec 12, 2008)

Ah, sorry about posting in the wrong forum. I'm new here (observe post count) and didn't see a more suitable chapter for talking about SM related things. My bad.


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

I'd say the Smurfs, Lots of characters (Cassius being the worse-125pts and he's T6 and feel no pain-That's dirt cheap and horrible)


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## Caledor (Jan 15, 2008)

Codex Space Marines. If allows you the widest choice of options in a system that's dropping options like rotten fruit. It can be tailored to overwhelm pretty much any other force due to the number of troops options, and with the involvment of certain characters your basic marines become even more deadly.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Dark angels.....:laugh:

ok ok I'm sorry I shouldn't open wounds for there player base :taunt:

honestly these days I'd say none of the marine chapters are that cheesy, even the ones with special character bonuses, shrikes is a little WTF'ish, but easy enough to deal with

and everyone going on about special characters is confusing as well, Marneus costs 250-265pts alone, who cares about a silly AP2 ranged attack, by that trail of thought a single marine with a plasma gun is extreme cheese cus hes cheaper.

cassius is a puff, T6 with FNP?, yeah...but what about the fact a power fist ignores both of those bonuses and he hits like a wet blanket in close combat

the only time marines become cheesy is when people don't read the actual codex and just get stuck on 1 or 2 points that mean nothing.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Oh yeah, I've Marneus Calgar, with his AP2 Bolters! Yeah!

Wait. Bolters.

Nothing too cheesy, really. People are talking about tailoring to beat any force - I thought cheesiness was making a unit/combo/army that was unbeatable by any set up.

Hell, If I know I'm facing Nid Hordes, with a single Hive Tyrant, I'd consider perhaps a Terminator Assault Squad, 3x Devestators with Heavy Bolters, and a few Tactical Squads with Razorbacks and Heavy Bolters.

However, woe betide when go against those 3x Land Raiders/Monoliths.

Tailoring is not cheese. Tailoring your army is exactly that - tailoring.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

The army list is hardly cheesy. An intelligent setup will be mostly Troops anyway. If someone gets hung up on all the good Elites units that are available, then they're going to be so badly outnumbered that it's not going to matter that there are 30 Sternguard Veterans on the table. The reason that the Space Marines seem to be failing when pitted against supposedly "top tier" lists in tournaments is, as far as I'm concerned, because there's not an exploitable combination that's decidedly better than anything else--the list requires you to actually use tactics, whereas most of the "top tier" lists really just sort of play themselves based upon a combination of two or three units' abilities. 

Honestly, there really isn't anything that wears power armour in the Emperor's service that is even vaguely broken or cheesy or whatever the word you want to use is.


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## Gobbo (Jun 4, 2008)

As a marine player, I think they all suck.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

The new Marine codex is shit.

Dark Angels then Space Wolves


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## englanda (Dec 2, 2008)

Jezlad said:


> The new Marine codex is shit.
> 
> Dark Angels then Space Wolves


What would a dark angels list look like? If we're saying it's the best, how is it better than codex space marines. What would a space wolves force look like while we're at it?

Thanks.


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

englanda said:


> What would a dark angels list look like? If we're saying it's the best, how is it better than codex space marines. What would a space wolves force look like while we're at it?
> 
> Thanks.


I think in a manner that it shows a military overlook of marines (5-10 men only not 6,7 or 8 ) and that the items used are not over the top (e.g the storm shields)
My DA List was (or what I can remember):
Belial
2 deathwing squads
2 tactical
I dev and whrilwind

I'm not sure what the Andrex Puupies army would look like though.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

If you want cheese, space wolves are currently capable of that. The fact that their armies are made using books written with a 9 year gap and 2 editions of the game in between should explain why there are some inconsistent things you can do. If you start spending upwards of 600 points on wolf guard terminator units then you can do some very silly things, some of which will work. They also have troops that are good.

Dark angels are also capable of fielding effective "doubelwing" armies that are able to play very effectively.

Codex space marines lack cheese. They just have a load of stuff that costs about 20% more than it's worth and isn't a scoring unit. Somebody trying to make a marine cheese list will see it fail against troops choices from the Ork, daemon and CSM lists.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I don't really get what you mean about the blood angels reference but it doesn't really matter really as there is no marine army bar maybe Space wolves that can be very broken. All of them have their downsides for their upsides. Space wolves are a little more expensive for troops but have a whole lot more bang for their buck. all their special wargear works really well with the new edition rules too...


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## Johnathanswift (Sep 30, 2008)

Well cheese wise, a Iron Hands army with six dreadnaughts in drop pods, and five tac squads also in drop pods is quite effective (IMO)


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