# What are the cheesiest special characters you know



## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

In my view seriously the cheesiest character is either Logan Grimmar or The Sanguinor. Some times I will stare at these rules and say to myself what is this author thinking


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Vulkan. 

I'm not exactly sure exactly how either of those characters you listed are "cheesy", though.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Vulkan.

Oh, and Mephiston. Not necessarily "cheesy", but a normal looking dude with the stats of a Trygon? I think the authors fucked that one up.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

I was rather amused by Marneus Calgar

SGMAlice


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Abbaddon, I never played a Game against him, but him and 2 Chaos termies took out Kharn a 8 man unit of Beserkers on the charge. Kharn scored 1 wound, and Abby killed 8 Zerkers. PF Termie killed Kharn. He also byhimself killed 2 Daemon Princes, and 5 Fiends of my Ally in the same game. 

His worst enemy though is Lash into Dangerous Terrain :laugh:.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I would say Eldrad and Pedro are extremely cheesy.

Most eldar lists contain eldrad and nealy anyone I know picks pedro just to get scoring sternguard.


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## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

KingOfCheese said:


> Vulkan.
> 
> Oh, and Mephiston. Not necessarily "cheesy", but a normal looking dude with the stats of a Trygon? I think the authors fucked that one up.


well the man did rip his way out of a trygons belly after fighting off a horde of nids. Getting back on topic From my experiences marneus calgar and retinue suck when fire dragons are close enough


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## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

search116 said:


> In my view seriously the cheesiest character is either Logan Grimmar or The Sanguinor. Some times I will stare at these rules and say to myself what is this author thinking


Really. I have an Ironclad. He's not so cheesy now. you now have 200+pts stuck in battle with a 150 odd pts modal that it can't touch. Ya it would take a whiel to kill him but he's effectivly out of the battle.



> Marneus Calgar


Ya ke can be annyoing but just attack him with mass power weaons and he goes down easily.



> Vulkan.


Ok i have to agree there somewhat. 2+/3++ saves plus his "special rule" of making all flamers and meltas even more bad ass make him insane for his points.

I would also add in Lysander as 2+/3++ save, Stubbon, 4 wounds and Eternal warrior is hard to kill. Also the Swarmlord is almsot impossible to beat in combat with the onyl one who stands a change is Mephiston and if he fails to kill him he WILL die. Also Tyrant guard and NOT being an IC make him even more bad ass.
Mehpison is a wimkp as the righjt weapons can kill him easily thans to no invunrable save and he can instant killed...my Wraithcannons will have fun.


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## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

jaws900 said:


> Really. I have an Ironclad. He's not so cheesy now. you now have 200+pts stuck in battle with a 150 odd pts modal that it can't touch. Ya it would take a whiel to kill him but he's effectivly out of the battle.
> 
> 
> 
> Well your not thinking of the fact he can fall back 3d6 inches and he makes a Sergent a mini HQ


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## The Boz (Aug 16, 2010)

Vulkan, Eldrad.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Lysander and Pedro are less than abusive - Bolter Drill is useless on a character built for an assault, and +1 ttack on those built for shooting?

Vulkan and Pedro together could be a damn interesting combination - but the fact is, it's Vulkan's Chapter Tactics which make that deadly - NB - I don't have the book to hand, but I think Sternguard are scoring as long as Pedro's present, while Chapter Tactics Vulkan provides the Combi Weapons the hitting power.

But yeah, both of those are not Cheesiest. Cheesy is when your entire benefits from OTT special such as Redeploying units and Twinlinking the 2 most powerful weapons of 5th edition (the flamer and melta).

Relentless Long Fangs, not too bad, but then again, that's also splitting Logan's strength - in an assault. FC is nice on assault units, but you've got to get there, and FCing a single unit is hardly OP.

Many people complained about the Creed, Kell, and Alrahem combination - 55 Outflanking FC Guardsmen - until people realised that was exactly what it was, Guardsmen.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

Vulkan, for helping his army so much and being so survivable at his cost.

Mephiston, for blending A+ grade CC -and- psyker powers. They weren't just happy giving him natural S6 to intant-death every Eldar in existence; he can upgrade himself to S10 attacks at a better I than 99% of the models of the game and still use other powers, while rerolling everything against ICs. Really, he is the poster boy for codex creep. His sole flaw, the lack of invul, vanishes when you put him in a squad!

Really, they should at least have the decency to make him a lone wolf. He has better T and more wounds than some -squads- of Death Guard I've seen on the table.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Although he isn't the toughest, Yriel.

4 no save attacks wounding on a 2+ and a str6 Ap3 5" template per battle.

Phil kelly's thought process: "And to kill space marines Eldar can have......"


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

As a competitive gamer, I don't really believe that any character is "cheese," but some are certainly better than others.

The best special characters I would put under two categories: those that serve as a force multiplier for the army, and those that are incredibly versatile/strong in their own right but do not help the army.

First Category would have to include Vulkan, Ghazkull, Eldrad, and Logan. All of them give soo much to their respective armies in the form of opening up new (and effective) FOC slots, TL weapons, 6" waaagh, etc. Three of them are also very effective in CC too.

Second Category would include Mephiston, Abaddon, and the Swarmlord. All three are absolute beasts in close combat and will rip squads apart. The Swarmlord does have some nice abilities to help out those around him but CC is where he really shines.


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## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

Sephyr said:


> Vulkan, for helping his army so much and being so survivable at his cost.
> 
> Mephiston, for blending A+ grade CC -and- psyker powers. They weren't just happy giving him natural S6 to intant-death every Eldar in existence; he can upgrade himself to S10 attacks at a better I than 99% of the models of the game and still use other powers, while rerolling everything against ICs. Really, he is the poster boy for codex creep. His sole flaw, the lack of invul, vanishes when you put him in a squad!
> 
> Really, they should at least have the decency to make him a lone wolf. He has better T and more wounds than some -squads- of Death Guard I've seen on the table.


He Isnt a independent character so you cant attach him to the squad thats why they gave him 5 wounds


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## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

search116 said:


> jaws900 said:
> 
> 
> > Really. I have an Ironclad. He's not so cheesy now. you now have 200+pts stuck in battle with a 150 odd pts modal that it can't touch. Ya it would take a whiel to kill him but he's effectivly out of the battle.
> ...


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yeah, jaws, if you play people who would let that character get into combat with something he can't kill you play with dipshits who need to be brained and made into servitors because they're worthless otherwise.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

The last chancers, sure there awesome, but fighting an entire unit of special characters is.................oh hang on, they no longer exist, shit.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

i would have to say that Vulkan is the cheese of 40k. he gives the entire army the ability to twin-link not just flamers but meltas and does something cool with thunder hammers. that is the most cheese i have ever seen.


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## foulacy (Nov 24, 2007)

I would say Vulkan is the cheesiest also. There was hardly any Salamander armies before he came out. I'm not complaining though, its nice to see new chapters get used.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

i was just woundering why they went so crazy with him. most special characters get 1 special rule for an army and 1 bounus rule for their squad and even then its something less apealing like auto passing leaderships and lame stuff like that. i was just curious why they made vulkan so cheesy. he is less expensive then marneus and lysander i believe and he has a 3+ invul 2+ armor save and he gives 3 special abilities to the entire army. I just wounder why they wanted to just cheese him out that bad. the last person that chessy was cassius and he isnt even that cool.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm going to jump on the Last Chancers bandwagon with Stella :biggrin:
It is a shame they were 'discontinued'...

SGMAlice


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

I'm sorry guys, but did someone forget about Nightbringer? THAT [email protected]#$^%$D KILLED MY HIEROPHANT!!!!!


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

DestroyerHive said:


> I'm sorry guys, but did someone forget about Nightbringer? THAT [email protected]#$^% KILLED MY HIEROPHANT!!!!!


To be honest; i fail to detect even the slightest 'whiff' of cheese from the Nightbringer.
A 4+ save... On a god... No....
He's just your stereotypical 'Hard Dude' and nothing more

SGMAlice


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## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

Nightbringer can be killed patheticly easily from a bunch of S7 shots. Krak Grenades and Plasma screw him up bad.

Also i don't think he's immune to instant death from Force Weapons and the like.



As for the cheesiest character i know, Typhus is sooooo damn close. If he just had EW or even natural T5, that fool would be god-tier. As it is, any old powerfist can insta-kill him. But if you can't instakill him, he's nigh unstoppable when used right.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

yea the necron gods arent that good if you know how to kill them. I have been in close combat with one before and since then never again. i always kill the night bringer before he gets into combat or eveb with in 12 inches. i have 12 lascannons and 6 blastmasters in my army. the nightbringer dosent last to long


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## overlordsson (Aug 5, 2010)

Warlock In Training, i LOVE abaddon, i played against him once and i got my ass kicked, but 1 time, when i was playing abaddon, he was the only one left of the squad and he deafeated 10 man terminator squad with 5 thunder hammers and 5 lightning claws and i couldnt believe it lol, but the only way to go with him is in a land raider with 9 berzerkers and a champion.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Deathscythe4722 said:


> Nightbringer can be killed patheticly easily from a bunch of S7 shots. Krak Grenades and Plasma screw him up bad.


Would take 30 hits from S7 weaponry on average to kill him.
Thats 45 Autocannon/Plasma shots at BS4.
Or 60 Autocannon/Plasma shots at BS3.
Or 90 Loota shots at BS2.

Something like MeltaVets would be useful against him, but then your still looking at 30 shots to take him down at BS4.
So even 6 units of MeltaVets all open firing would only do 3 wounds on average.




The best way to kill him is to try and get involved in a multiple combat with scarabs or warriors.
If you can win the combat by say 6 wounds, the Ctan has to make 6 saves, which is 3 wounds lost on average.
But any half-intelligent Necron player will keep their Ctan a long way away from any of their other units.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Mephiston. Or if the player is smart Sanguinior.....+1 attack yes please!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

jaws900 said:


> can't fall back while inh combat as he is fearless and doesn't have combat tactics. Also i don't care as he is expensive at 275pts and i just held you up and will kill you with a 140pts modal.





gen.ahab said:


> Yeah, jaws, if you play people who would let that character get into combat with something he can't kill you play with dipshits who need to be brained and made into servitors because they're worthless otherwise.


Pretty much. The Sanguinor can do this thing called _flying_ which allows him to move 12" a turn. You'd have to be a braindead retard to allow an Ironclad to assault the Sanguinor.

As for the thread topic itself, there's no such thing as cheese so the answer is that no character is the cheesiest.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> As for the thread topic itself, there's no such thing as cheese so the answer is that no character is the cheesiest.


Well Unless you go...

Sanguinor + Mephiston + Sang Preist....... then you have super cheese on a plate. Maybe throw in an Apothecary for lawlz?


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

i would never suggest anyone use meltas to kill the nightbringer. you dont ant to be with in 12 inches to use them because you are screwed if you are. 4+ save dosent sound that great but its a invul and its a lot of wounds you have to inflict. play it safe and use lascannons.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

5tonsledge said:


> i would never suggest anyone use meltas to kill the nightbringer. you dont ant to be with in 12 inches to use them because you are screwed if you are. 4+ save dosent sound that great but its a invul and its a lot of wounds you have to inflict. play it safe and use lascannons.


Even then you still need 30 Lascannons at BS3 to kill him, or 22.5 at BS4.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> Well Unless you go...
> 
> Sanguinor + Mephiston + Sang Preist....... then you have super cheese on a plate. Maybe throw in an Apothecary for lawlz?


That's not cheese, that's retardation. Burning both your HQ choices on super expensive single-model units isn't a great idea.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

i useually agree with Katie but i have to say the only cheese character in the game is Vulkan. I dont necessarily think its his stat loine, but more along the lines the point cost for him is surprisingly low for all the abilities he gives.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

It's only cheese if your to stupid to counter it.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

I'd probably say the Skulltaker.
That 140 point model took out a unit of 3 Carnifexes in one assault phase :laugh:


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Mephy can't join units because he doesn't have the IC special rule. He is a unit of one. Thats it, your wrong. Sorry.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

I think you two are thinking of completely different characters. :laugh:


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Considering the post he was referencing was talking about mephy, I don't think so.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

I think he thinks that he was thinking about a Tyrant, i think.

Mephiston can never be a part of a squad, unless he is joined by another Independent Character (such as a Priest).

The Tyrant is a rare case in which a non-IC can have a retinue. Which is not the case with Mephiston.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Considering the post he was referencing was talking about mephy, I don't think so.


Now how the hell did I manage that??
I think I quoted that post, but was thinking of the post above it XD


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Ah, I assumed you were trying to give a reason for mephy joining a squad.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

KingOfCheese said:


> Even then you still need 30 Lascannons at BS3 to kill him, or 22.5 at BS4.


i dont know where you got those odds but i kill the nightbringer in one volley of 12 lascannons at bs4. and then if that dosent kill him i still have 6 blastmaster shots.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> It's only cheese if your to stupid to counter it.


im not saying i cant counter it. ive never lost to a marine player at my shop. all im saying is that its a bad ass ability for such low points to make every melta and flame weapon in your army twin-linnked. Its not that im saying its hard to kill somebody with vulkan its just the ability for an entire army for like 200 points for vulkan is rediculous.
not the exact points for vulkan i know its in the 200 range


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

5tonsledge said:


> i dont know where you got those odds but i kill the nightbringer in one volley of 12 lascannons at bs4. and then if that dosent kill him i still have 6 blastmaster shots.


Ctan has 5 wounds.

With a 4+ save, he needs to be wounded 10 times.

Wounding on 3+, you need 15 hits to make 10 wounds.

Hitting on 3+ (BS4), you need 22.5 shots to get 15 hits, to get 10 wounds, to get 5 failed saves.




Oh, the other option of killing a Ctan.... 3 Deffrollas...

3D6 hits (average 10.5)
about 9 wound
4.5 failed saves.
He can always DoG, but then he will be taking even more S10 hits.

I can see it now....
Da Boyz: "Dey iz gotz a God boss!!! Howz we gonna killz 'im?"
Warboss: "Dey Godz iz weak!!! Runz dem ova and squish dem like da bugz!!!"


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

consider me lucky then because i always kill the Ctan in 1 volley. you cant use statistics with 40k. because dice rolling is completly random. Statistics say that a 4+ would be 50/50 thats what your saying. and how often do you see someone roll results based off statistics. You are just asuming because that the player will make 50% of his rolls. my experience is that i have never played someone whos' Ctan survived my shooting phase.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Probability is a measure of likelihood. There are always occurrences that lye outside of the predicted set. If it was 100% it wouldn't be called probability. To say you can't use simply equations to predict the outcome of a battle in 40k is stupid.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

5tonsledge said:


> consider me lucky then because i always kill the Ctan in 1 volley. you cant use statistics with 40k. because dice rolling is completly random. Statistics say that a 4+ would be 50/50 thats what your saying. and how often do you see someone roll results based off statistics. You are just asuming because that the player will make 50% of his rolls. my experience is that i have never played someone whos' Ctan survived my shooting phase.


You can make fairly good assumptions on expected outcomes using statistics.
By taking into account both the average result and the standard deviation, you can work out the expected probability of killing say X models with Y shots.

I am well aware that dice are random, and there is always the possibility of rolling 10 1's, but you take that into account with probability and standard deviation.

If statistics mean nothing, and its all just random, then ive got a proposal for you.
We each bet $100 on a combat. Ive got Mephiston, and you have an IG Guardsman. Winner takes the money.
Sure, its random, and its possible that you can win. But expected probability comes into play that tells you that it would be a bad investment for you.

If you cant see the significance of expected probability, then ill be more than happy to take that bet with you if you wish. :thank_you:


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

i have 100 bucks cheese lets do it. i bet on Mephiston.lol man im just saying probability is a real bitch in 40k. Daemon weapons for example. i dont take them, because i always roll 1's with them. statisticly its a 1/6 chance to roll a 1. I have rolled 1s almost everytime i play with daemon weapons. I love abbadon but every game abbadon wounds himself 1 time and it useually kills him. lets see mephiston survive 12 lascannon shots and 6 blastmaster shots. Proabability says he will die. what i just said was for fun but to the point. Im saying that i havent ever not killed a Ctan in 1 shooting phase. dosent mean they wont make their rolls 50% of the time, it just means they never have against me.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Probability is not a bitch in 40k. The fact that you are a giant walking statistical anomaly is just your problem. It doesn't change anything. And you probably haven't rolled one that much, the only reason you think you do is because you tend to remember failure.

Just let me get this straight, you are ruling out probability because it doesn't always come out as it should?


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

man i hate rolling 1's with Daemon Weapons it sucks. I guess i am a statistical anomaly. all im saying is just because statistics show that the nightbringer has 50% chance to make his save dosent mean my 18 shots cant kill nightbringer because statistics says i should 20+ shots in order to deal 10 wounds. the whole reason we got into this argument is because i said that meltas are too dangerous to use against the night bringer because unless you are 100% certain you are going to kill the nightbringer with the amount of shots you have 12 inches is way to close to take a chance. i said lascannons were a better choice because you dont have to be with in 12 inches of the nightbringer to attempt to wound him. then the subject of statistics and probability came up because of that post. im not saying probability isnt a wise thinking when building and running a army. I simply said that i have always killed the nightbringer with my 12 lascannon shots and my 6 blastmaster shots in one round of shooting. Sure if you didnt have the 6 blastmaster shots you might have to take another round of shooting. that was my argument with the probability. im rewarding you both with +2 rep points and im done arguing this with you guys. lets get back to the cheesiest characters in the game and call it good.:grin:


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## Forty Three (Jun 20, 2008)

um. Of course probability works. Think about what you're saying.

43


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

Forty Three said:


> um. Of course probability works. Think about what you're saying.
> 
> 43


Probability works. you happy.
I know its a good thing just saying the probability and luck arent friends.


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## Forty Three (Jun 20, 2008)

but there isn't such a thing as luck. There's only the fact that you need to roll an 'infinite' number of dice to get the right distribution. That still doesn't mean you should ignore it, because there isn't the same chance to roll a 7 on 2d6 than there is to roll a 12.

43


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

Forty Three said:


> but there isn't such a thing as luck. There's only the fact that you need to roll an 'infinite' number of dice to get the right distribution. That still doesn't mean you should ignore it, because there isn't the same chance to roll a 7 on 2d6 than there is to roll a 12.
> 
> 43


you are basically calling me a liar because my luck and my enemiess bad luck allowed me to kill without being linked to probability. Also Luck exist man. just like bad luck does too.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Believing that luck exists is the first step to financially crippling yourself.

Look at people that play the pokies/lotto/casino/etc.
They all play it because they believe they are lucky.
Problem is, they only remember their wins, not their losses.

Casino's profit purely because they have the odds in their favor, usually between 51:49 to 60:40.
Probability is the reason the casinos make a profit, and believing in luck is the reason that gamblers financially cripple themselves.


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## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

KingOfCheese said:


> Believing that luck exists is the first step to financially crippling yourself.
> 
> Look at people that play the pokies/lotto/casino/etc.
> They all play it because they believe they are lucky.
> ...


The man is a Chaos player logic does not apply to him.:laugh:


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## Forty Three (Jun 20, 2008)

KingOfCheese said:


> Believing that luck exists is the first step to financially crippling yourself.
> 
> Look at people that play the pokies/lotto/casino/etc.
> They all play it because they believe they are lucky.
> ...


:goodpost: quoting because cheese can explain more elocuently than me

43


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Why use lascannons on the nightbringer? Oh thats right eldar do not have them. Instead try using snipers rifles with DOOM! and guide if ya can!


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Stephen_Newman said:


> Why use lascannons on the nightbringer? Oh thats right eldar do not have them. Instead try using snipers rifles with DOOM! and guide if ya can!


Yeh, 30 Ranger/Pathfinder shots will do it.
Only 20 if the Ctan has Doom cast on it.


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## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

Deathscythe4722 said:


> Nightbringer can be killed patheticly easily from a bunch of S7 shots. Krak Grenades and Plasma screw him up bad.
> 
> Also i don't think he's immune to instant death from Force Weapons and the like.


Grenades? what rules are you using? Grendades can't be use don monsters. Also there are immune to instant death too ALL weapon and a wraithcannon is mentions as causing and auto-wound instead on a roll of a 6.

Plasma ya is a good way to take him down. personly i find the Desiver more bad ass as so soon as you get someone who can take him down into combat with him such as power fists and the like he jsut jumps out of combat. Sort of makes your swarmlord useless now.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

jaws900 said:


> Grenades? what rules are you using? Grendades can't be use don monsters. Also there are immune to instant death too ALL weapon and a wraithcannon is mentions as causing and auto-wound instead on a roll of a 6.


There's no need to nit pick. I'm pretty sure that he meant krak missiles rather than krak grenades. Since we like to be all technical about the small details, I should point out to you that it's possible to have a grenade launcher. :laugh:

Also, for the love of God run your posts through a spell checker.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Also, for the love of God run your posts through a spell checker.


:laugh: Good one, have some rep!


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

We have been telling him that for a while but he still posts shit like that. Oh well. Anywho... Actually no, that's about it


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Katie Drake said:


> As for the thread topic itself, there's no such thing as cheese so the answer is that no character is the cheesiest.


no such thing as cheese, haha, oh dear me, well I shouldn't be surprised at that from you.


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## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

To cheese or not to cheese. That is the question
There is no cheese or not cheese. There is only power.


Anyway, as far as guard goes. Straken is a beast with the stats of a monstrous creature, who isn't an independent character. Also Marbo who is almost too awesome for words. He has ballistic and weapon skill better than a space marine, five special rules, the ability to appear anywhere on the map that is more than one inch away from an enemy unit, a ccw that wounds on a two plus, and an AP2 sniper pistol, all for 65 points.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

dosent he have a demo charge too


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

To me there is no such thing as cheese. Instead I firmly believe that if it is in the codex then you can use it. Whether I agree on your choice is another matter. For example I do not want Vulkan creeping up in ultrasmurf lists.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

yea i agree its cool if you have a chapter spec army. non of this mix and match bull


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

5tonsledge said:


> yea i agree its cool if you have a chapter spec army. non of this mix and match bull


Except the Codex specifically says you're allowed to use any character with any Chapter so people's opinions of it don't matter.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

yea the codex says you can, im not saying you cant, just its not right fluff wise.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Cheese has to exist, or my pizza is bland. 
Personally so far i have not had a cheesy hq to complain about. However i can see the point about vulkan. We chaos people have some spectacularly uncheesy characters. Fabius, huron, typhus ,ahriman,lucius. Fun to use but not made of mozzarella thats for sure. Abby is dead ard but he is slow. Avoid him, or tarpit him with crud.


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## The Boz (Aug 16, 2010)

In a smurf list, Vulkan is called Force Commander Ultracool, so it's fluffy.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

@ 5
Yes it is. Those units are used as counts as units so it's perfectly fine fluff wise.


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## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

Katie Drake said:


> Except the Codex specifically says you're allowed to use any character with any Chapter so people's opinions of it don't matter.


Yeah but you are allowed only one of the special rules like master crafted armory


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

search116 said:


> Yeah but you are allowed only one of the special rules like master crafted armory


That's relevant how?


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## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

Katie Drake said:


> That's relevant how?


Doesn't really kill the reason why you would take some thing like Pedro and Vulkan


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

I just hate how the Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine codexes are so bland. They both have now chapter specific rules are completely gone.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

search116 said:


> Doesn't really kill the reason why you would take some thing like Pedro and Vulkan


I really don't get what you're talking about. :shok:


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## VanitusMalus (Jun 27, 2009)

Katie I believe he is refering to the fact if an army contains to special characters with Chapter Tactics the player must choose which Tactic to use. If I'm understanding him correctly. Which isn't relevant at all in this particular discussion.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Regarding the "does cheese exist" argument, personally i would only give something the label of cheese if it is obviously without a doubt broken, or is extremely undercosted for its ability.
To be honest, there is nothing that is completely broken in the game. Some things are obviously better than others, but there is nothing that people have complained about so bad that the codex had to be reprinted.
Something like the Doom of Malantai effecting units inside vehicles could be considered broken and therefore cheesy, however if the FAQ did favor this then people would still be able to find a counter to it eventually.
TH/SS Termies had people screaming cheese, but people have found their way around them.
Same as Nob Bikers. A list that dominated at one stage is a lot less effective now that people run so many S8+ weapons.
Same as Lash. Simple solution to counter it was to Mech-up.

But basically, things are either effective or broken. Not much is broken.


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