# Confimed Blood Angel Rumors



## stealthrat1 (Jul 28, 2009)

So I got a look at the new codex this past sat and omfg this codex is crazy. Forgive me as I do not remember all the names/rules for everything specifically special characters.

All Vehicles excluding land raiders are fast vehicles. 

You succumb to rage if you roll a 1 at the start of any of your turns and you replace ATSKNF with furious charge and maybe someother power.

A long list of special characters.

Mephiston: WS 7, I 7, S6, T6 A 4-5, W 5. Can use 3 powers a turn, does not have FNP or an invulne.

He is about the only character that I remember.

Baal predators now have scout and can replace their assault cannon for a flamestorm cannon for free. They are fast attacks and start at 115pts

All Land raiders can deepstrike. WTF All land raider are DEDICATED TRANSPORTS not heavy support

Can take death company dreads are troops, regular dreads are heavy support, and furoso as HQ. 

That crazy flying ship thing that everyone is orgasming over is really good. I forget what it is called but here are its stats:
AV 12 ALL FACINGS comes with a twin-linked assault cannon and twin linked heavy bolter. The HB can be exchanged for a free twin-linked multi-melta, and the assault cannon for either a plasma cannon or lascannon for free. This thing can carry BOTH 12 models (including terminators) AND one dreadnought. It can deepstrike, its an assault vehicle like a land raider, and you cannot get 2D6 armor pen against it due to its cerimite plating special rule. Also, it can do what vendettas and such can do, which is move flat out and drop its squad off. It is a fast skimmer that is 200pts.

there is an elite unit that give everything within 6" FNP and can be attached to a squad. 

Dreads can get this grapple thing that pulls vehicles closer to it if it penetrates them. S8 Ap2 12" range heavy 1 grapple
If it glances or penetrates then the dread pulls the vehicle 2D6" closer to it. Sort of like a lash. The HQ dreads can be upgraded with an assault 2 S6 flamer that has rending with no AP, and can be upgraded to a librarian dreadnought with a hood and can choose 2 powers. 

The death company dread is a troops choice and ignore shaken and stunned results.

Have about the same elite section as regular marines. can take assault squads as troops and I forget if death company are elites or fast attack. 

Most characters are crazy to say the very least. One guy has a 3+ save and a 2+ FNP save. That makes sense right? The only real drawback is that you cannont assault when your land raider or crazy flying ship or whatever deepstrikes.


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## your master (Jun 14, 2008)

you forgot among other things that you can take one of the most beardy armies i have ever seen 
HQ- Astroph the grim
elites- 3*librarian dread at 175pts each
troops- 60 death company and 12 deathcompany dreads as you can have 1 death company dred per 5 death company


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Except Death Company are a unique squad of 0-30 men, so 6 DC Dreads max.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

some mega beardy cheese in the making.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Hmmm.... 30 wannabe Khorne Beserkers and 6 Dreads.... 3 of those Dreads can fly and use CC Psychic Powers...... A Skimmer that carries more than any Vedetta and allows assault after disembarking...... All Tanks are Fast ........  and to think I was worried.


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

and that ladies and germs, is how GW balance out the armys.............not.
im sorry, but if all the above is true (havent seen the dex yet), then that is taking the piss, oh and how many new BA armys will be posted in the list section by the end of april??


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Yes but that would be an expensive army, whereby 6 of it's models can be taken down by a single krak missile (or equivalent) and the DC squad can be fed small sacrificial units to keep it contained for the entire mission.


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## Truefaith (Oct 11, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Except Death Company are a unique squad of 0-30 men, so 6 DC Dreads max.


Unless you take Astorath the Grim, who removes the 0-1 Death company limitation.


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

But... we're still talking about a pointsink of a nonscoring points sink.


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## Wax (Jan 6, 2010)

your master said:


> you forgot among other things that you can take one of the most beardy armies i have ever seen
> HQ- Astroph the grim
> elites- 3*librarian dread at 175pts each
> troops- 60 death company and 12 deathcompany dreads as you can have 1 death company dred per 5 death company


Enjoy an army with no scoring models, in which over half the stuff on the table has the Rage USR (that can no longer be controlled by the way). A good player will figure this out quick and kite all those models to exactly where they want them so the do squat all game. Not to mention the fact that the list breaks the FOC. You can only have a max of 6 Troop slots, you have taken a whopping 14 Troops. Yes, an illegal list is very beardy. I can't believe no one else calls people on bullshit like this. If you are going to cry cheese, at least get your head out of your ass long enough to get the actual rules right.

Also, this thread makes me feel like I really went back in time two weeks to when this info had not already be posted all over here.


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## rxcky (Jun 7, 2008)

Don't know if these things have been listed here already but just in case, I too had a look at the codex today and there are also the following things:

Not ALL troops with Jump Packs get the "descent of angels" special rule. Most of them do but the Vanguard Vets don't have it, would be even more broken added to they're heroic intervention. They are slightly cheaper than normal VV's, 115pts compaired to 125pts.

Mephiston and Dante both have "Fleet". Mephiston is also classed as Infantry.

The funky "big ship" can carry troops with jump packs, count as two models. The extra armour is only resistant to melta weapons, unless I read it wrong.

As Wax_Assassin says you cant take 12 Death Company Dreads, the most you could take is 5, 1 for every 5 death company to make up your 6 troop choices. They also have Fleet.

Deep striking units with Dante don't scatter, but I think everyone knows about that one.

They really are a bit broken compaired to pretty much everything, no Landspeeder Storm which was a bit dissapointing, but to be fair they have enough good stuff as it is. Still can't deepstrike and assault with anything though (unless you use the Van.Vets and a homing beacon) Gonna be a lot of new BA players at the beginning of April.


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## Wax (Jan 6, 2010)

rxcky said:


> Don't know if these things have been listed here already but just in case, I too had a look at the codex today and there are also the following things:
> 
> Not ALL troops with Jump Packs get the "descent of angels" special rule. Most of them do but the Vanguard Vets don't have it, would be even more broken added to they're heroic intervention. They are slightly cheaper than normal VV's.


Yes, everything from the codex has been posted somewhere already, there are no new rumors/info to post, it has all come out.

And wrong on the VGV. They get DoA when they equip their jump packs. I'm guessing you didn't look in the wargear section where it says under jump packs that any unit that takes them also gets DoA.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

That Dreadnought weapon (R: Template, S: 6, AP: -, Assault2 Rending) is called a Frag Cannon, and is the single greatest name in all of 40k. I honestly cannot wait to see the model for that beast. I think of the Helghast Rocket Launcher from Killzone2, or perhaps something from Halo. Apart from that though, at this point I think we're past "OMFG this bit's true ROFLMAOROXXORSBBQETC!!!!!11!!" Time for people to USE the knowledge of the new Dex, and construct lists. Like that DC one, which is illegal, one-dimensional, and hardly difficult to contain - no scoring units = poor list. At least, in the sense that most of us like to choose tactics, not play ' I must table you to win' every game.

...I HOPE that's most of us, not just me...


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## stealthrat1 (Jul 28, 2009)

Wax_Assassin said:


> Enjoy an army with no scoring models, in which over half the stuff on the table has the Rage USR (that can no longer be controlled by the way). A good player will figure this out quick and kite all those models to exactly where they want them so the do squat all game. Not to mention the fact that the list breaks the FOC. You can only have a max of 6 Troop slots, you have taken a whopping 14 Troops. Yes, an illegal list is very beardy. I can't believe no one else calls people on bullshit like this. If you are going to cry cheese, at least get your head out of your ass long enough to get the actual rules right.
> 
> Also, this thread makes me feel like I really went back in time two weeks to when this info had not already be posted all over here.


don't shit your pants, Jesus Christ


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## Talthewicked2 (Mar 16, 2010)

Someone Called Me? ... Thou shalt not call me for some shite in thine pants.


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## Medic Marine (Jun 28, 2009)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/26523845/Codex-Blood-Angels-2010
I found this from a friend that plays BA. I'm waffleing on this codex... GW seems to either over do it on BA or rape them... (Not sure if any of this is true but what the heck right)


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

stealthrat1 said:


> don't shit your pants, Jesus Christ


People would get less upset if other people posted less crappy information. Wax_Assassin wasn't out of line with anything he said. So... don't shit your pants.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Here's an UNconfirmed BA rumour - Katie Drake will be using the new Codex for her Fleshtearers! :shok:


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## Wax (Jan 6, 2010)

stealthrat1 said:


> don't shit your pants, Jesus Christ


Come on man, you cry cheese (at least that's the way it came off to me, maybe that's just because a lot of people are doing it) but don't even bother to get the BASIC rules of the game right. It's really frustrating.



JesusChrist said:


> Someone Called Me? ... Thou shalt not call me for some shite in thine pants.


Holy shit! Jesus is from the UK!



Medic Marine said:


> http://www.scribd.com/doc/26523845/Codex-Blood-Angels-2010
> I found this from a friend that plays BA. I'm waffleing on this codex... GW seems to either over do it on BA or rape them... (Not sure if any of this is true but what the heck right)


Maybe I'm missing something, but you do realize that that's a link to the fandex, right? Not the real one?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> People would get less upset if other people posted less crappy information. Wax_Assassin wasn't out of line with anything he said. So... don't shit your pants.





TheKingElessar said:


> Here's an UNconfirmed BA rumour - Katie Drake will be using the new Codex for her Fleshtearers! :shok:


(rubbing crystal ball) I forsee a Seth Model in your Collection very soon. 

I know if I were to play BAs, he be in my lists. I like him as a SC and his model kicks ass. Look s like Katie lucked out.


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## your master (Jun 14, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> Except Death Company are a unique squad of 0-30 men, so 6 DC Dreads max.


thats why i included astoroth the grim as 0-1 rule is taken away so you can have 12


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

doesnt that break the FOC chart?


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

Yes, yes it does, so you can only have 4.

Personally, I don't care one bit about this "cheese". if I lose I lose, I won't tailor my list or anything, I'll just try and figure out some tactics that'll help.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Warlock in Training said:


> (rubbing crystal ball) I forsee a Seth Model in your Collection very soon.
> 
> I know if I were to play BAs, he be in my lists. I like him as a SC and his model kicks ass. Look s like Katie lucked out.


:good: Patience and dedication pays off!


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## Judas Masias (Jun 5, 2008)

stealthrat1 said:


> don't shit your pants, Jesus Christ





JesusChrist said:


> Someone Called Me? ... Thou shalt not call me for some shite in thine pants.


OMFG ROFLMFAO.:rofl::laugh::good:


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## Salahaldin (Aug 15, 2009)

If neither stealthrat1 or jesuschrist mind, I'm going to be using that as my signature from now on... that was the funniest thing I've seen on these forums. I plus repped jesuschrist.

Oh, and yeah, Blood Angels is so ridiculous it's unbelievable. I seriously will pay anyone $5 if they can create a 2000pts. army list with this codex that _isn't_ cheesy or unbeatable.

...I mean, Land Raiders that can fucking DEEPSTRIKE?!??! Oh hi, turn two I'm going to drop this brick of assrape into your deployment zone, nothing you can do about that. Don't forget that since I didn't actually move, that's all weapons firing as much as I want. Now you have one turn to kill the landraider, and the HQ unit accompanied by five terminators/Sanguinary priests within it. Oh, you didn't, what a surprise; guess that's no lube for you! Turn three I'm going to assault your most expensive unit, vehicle, or HQ with my 600pts. unit, including my HQ with special rules so unbelievably unbalanced they may as well have wrote "Kick your opponent in the groin. With your fist. Then take all his money, models, and stomp on his face for good luck." And don't forget that with fast Rhino's and Razorbacks and Baal Predators with scout the rest of my army is busy decimating yours by turn two in a fight so one-sided it's the next episode of "Most One-sided Fistfights Ever", Blood Angel edition.


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## liforrevenge (Oct 6, 2009)

Salahaldin said:


> *insert claim of cheesiness*



Have you ever tried to fit a brick that scatters 2d6 into the enemy's deployment zone? Or does this thing work like the drop pod?


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## Salahaldin (Aug 15, 2009)

liforrevenge said:


> Have you ever tried to fit a brick that scatters 2d6 into the enemy's deployment zone? Or does this thing work like the drop pod?


I think the fact that it deep strikes with normal rules for scatter doesn't quite negate the amount of unbalance that a deep-striking land raider represents. I only used their deployment zone as an expression to show that this land raider can literally show up right next to your most valuable unit, and take it out without having to brave the dangers of attracting all the anti-tank fire in your entire army for two+ turns.

My offer still stands. When the new codex comes out, someone post a 2000pts. list. If everyone who sees it agrees that it's a balanced, non-cheesy and reasonably beatable list, I will mail the person who posted it a five dollar bill. (Canadian)


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

LMAO. No way could I stay out of THAT. If the enemy has DS'ing Raiders, then you deploy in anti-DS formation. Simples. Since you know they've spent a chunk of points on something shit (ie, a Raider) or, more likely, good but vulnerable to the Meltaguns you only don't pack if you're a retard or Nids (or have a shitty hamstrung Codex, of course) - the Crusader - then it's that much easier to take out their Transports and get at the juicy stuff inside. Especially when the unit inside will probably take it to the guts of 1k for a single squad. Frankly, I'd concede, because beating someone with a list that dumb would be like taking candy from a baby that had no arms, was tied to a chair, blindfolded, gagged, and unconscious - ie, no fun, and more than a little cruel.

It helps, too, if you follow the actual rules, and don't allow the Raider shots when it comes in - except PotMS, of course.


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## Wax (Jan 6, 2010)

Salahaldin said:


> I think the fact that it deep strikes with normal rules for scatter doesn't quite negate the amount of unbalance that a deep-striking land raider represents. I only used their deployment zone as an expression to show that this land raider can literally show up right next to your most valuable unit, and take it out without having to brave the dangers of attracting all the anti-tank fire in your entire army for two+ turns.
> 
> My offer still stands. When the new codex comes out, someone post a 2000pts. list. If everyone who sees it agrees that it's a balanced, non-cheesy and reasonably beatable list, I will mail the person who posted it a five dollar bill. (Canadian)


You know, I had just gotten past the HQ section of my list for you when I realized that you don't want a good list (which to be fair I might have not even produced) that will be balanced, you want a list that you can look at and say, "Oh ok, I can beat that." This being the case I suggest you make a shitty BA list yourself, because really, any retard can make a beatable list, and I think you fit the requirements perfectly. 

Once again a dumbass cries cheese without even getting the basic rules right. Not only did you miss on the rules, you (like Elessar already pointed out) referred to a scenario that borders on retarded. You should thank an opponent who chooses to do something like that with his 500+ point LR+embarked squad. Not only does he risk losing the whole thing on one roll of the dice. Then, if they actually make it, you have a nice big juicy target that is most likely in range of some sort of AT (you do melta spam like everyone else right?). So long LR, hello pie plate/tarpit to the face of expensive squad. 

Balance comes from point cost, a BA army with lots of toys will never have as much on the board as any other army (barring special termie/bike lists).

Bottom line: Remove head from ass before making stupid statements.

Infraction issued for derogatory language, in future try to be more mindful in regards to how you interact with fellow forum members.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

What if the land raider in question was a dedicated transport for the crew Dante was attached to? you could literally put that bastard anywhere you want and flame the shit out of anyone without the fear of scatter, and I would think that it could still fire its weapons but just not assault.:russianroulette:


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

Salahaldin said:


> If neither stealthrat1 or jesuschrist mind, I'm going to be using that as my signature from now on... that was the funniest thing I've seen on these forums. I plus repped jesuschrist. Snippy snippy



It took me forever to create the Jesus Christ log in name ... I just could not resist it though. I am glad to see that other people here have a sense of humor as well. If a moderator wants to kill the JC persona they can.


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## Wax (Jan 6, 2010)

Talthewicked said:


> What if the land raider in question was a dedicated transport for the crew Dante was attached to? you could literally put that bastard anywhere you want and flame the shit out of anyone without the fear of scatter, and I would think that it could still fire its weapons but just not assault.:russianroulette:


Oh my God. This is a joke right? You are trying to be sarcastic, please tell me that.

Since when can a jump infantry model go in a Land Raider? Even if you could put Dante in a Raider (or if you do put him in a Raven) there is no way you could use his perfect deep strike ability when it is actually the Transport that is deep striking, not the unit embarked on it. 

As for shooting when they arrive "Vehicles arriving from deep strike count as moving at cruising speed." (AoBR RB p.95) So you get one weapon to fire from PotMS.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

Vanguards no JP ... And I could not find where it says vehicles count as moving at cruising speed ...
sorry just found it
Heres the thing ... IIRC Dante confers the perfect deepstrike to any unit he is with, if the LR is a dedicated transport for that unit it should confer to that as well should it not?


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

No. You can't add an IC to a vehicle squadron.


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## Wax (Jan 6, 2010)

AND it doesn't matter if the unit has JPs or not, Dante still can't go in the LR thus is not with the unit. You can't have an IC attached to a unit that he is not embarked with or within 2" of at the end of your movement phase.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

I am just saying that LR are supposed to be a dedicated transport for troops, and if you attach Dante to a troop that uses a LR as their transport then he can be in there. You are thinking of LR as they are for most marine armies, and JP guys cant embark on those, by the same token those LR can't deepstrike either, perhaps there is a provision for letting JP guys in a LR for the blood angels. As far as not letting an IC not get into a dedicated transport with the guys that he is attached to, we already know that you can do that. This was just a thought of something that is a possiblity at this point when we have codex in hand we will know for sure.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

I have noticed people are running the BA troops in Rhino's instead of with jump packs, just so they are a cheaper and more effective version of standard CSM...

Is it just me, or does that seem really unfluffy? Blood Angels without jump packs just doesnt sound right.


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

He can get in it, sure. He can't squadron with it.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

You mean to tell me that in the nilla codex I cant take a 9 man tactical squad and use a rhino and attach a captian to the 9 man squad and put them all (10 men ) in the rhino that was purchased for them? Or for shits and giggles a chaplain in terminator armor with a 5 man squad of terminators that take a LR for there vehicle ... I can not attach the chappy to the termies and then have all of them get in a LR Crusader?


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Page 66 BRB...

*"A transport may carry a single infantry unit and/or any number of independent characters (as long as they count as infantry), up to a total of models equal to the vehicles transport capacity"*

*Only infantry models may embark in transports (it is worth specifying that this does not include jump infantry), unless a Codex book states otherwise.*


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Talthewicked said:


> I am just saying that LR are supposed to be a dedicated transport for troops, and if you attach Dante to a troop that uses a LR as their transport then he can be in there. You are thinking of LR as they are for most marine armies, and JP guys cant embark on those, by the same token those LR can't deepstrike either, perhaps there is a provision for letting JP guys in a LR for the blood angels. As far as not letting an IC not get into a dedicated transport with the guys that he is attached to, we already know that you can do that. This was just a thought of something that is a possiblity at this point when we have codex in hand we will know for sure.


No such provision exists in the Codex. The Stormraven is the only Transport in regular 40k that can transport Jump Infantry. It, of course, would be better for the nonsense tactic earlier advocated - because it's immune to the gazillion Meltaguns that would be trained on _any_ Flying Brick.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

That is what I was getting at ... I was not sure if JP guys could load into a Land Raider in the new dex.


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## smfanboy (Apr 1, 2009)

can you pleace tell me more about tycho I love the guy


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

As I understand the stormraven will be getting a release with the GK's codex, it will currently only be available to these chapters


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## hungryp (Mar 2, 2010)

smfanboy said:


> can you pleace tell me more about tycho I love the guy


He was a captain of the blood angels third company :biggrin:


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## smfanboy (Apr 1, 2009)

hungryp said:


> He was a captain of the blood angels third company :biggrin:




.......... the rules smart guy :threaten:


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## hungryp (Mar 2, 2010)

To go back to the ultra-dready army of doom idea, you can get 11 dreads in without breaking FoC. 25 Death Company gets you 5 DC Dreads as troops, plus 3 each in Elite and Heavy.
Congratulations: you've just taken one scoring unit with objective ADD.


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

What? Are you deliberately misunderstanding?

Or just arguing with them instead of me?

ICs can never become a part of squadron. Being in a transport does not count as being part of a unit with said transport.

edit: eh, ignore me. I won't delete it on the grounds that I'll later use this as evidence to deny accusation of ever making sense


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## Sanguinary Dan (Feb 2, 2008)

hungryp said:


> To go back to the ultra-dready army of doom idea, you can get 11 dreads in without breaking FoC. 25 Death Company gets you 5 DC Dreads as troops, plus 3 each in Elite and Heavy.
> Congratulations: you've just taken one scoring unit with objective ADD.


Not even that. DC is non scoring.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Cyklown said:


> What? Are you deliberately misunderstanding?
> 
> Or just arguing with them instead of me?
> 
> ICs can never become a part of squadron. Being in a transport does not count as being part of a unit with said transport.


Who was that post directed towards? Im confused.


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## fett14622 (Apr 29, 2008)

I thought in the new dex that *DC* are a troop choice.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

fett14622 said:


> I thought in the new dex that *DC* are a troop choice.


Non-scoring troops i think...


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## Salahaldin (Aug 15, 2009)

OK, I'm sorry for not checking the rules first. I understand that the land raider would be vulnerable to scatter, if it deep-striked with the same rules as everything else. Judging by some other deep striking vehicles, (Drop Pods, Monoliths) I don't think the writers of the codex will allow a flying land raider to be killed by a squad of ten guardsmen. What I was basically trying to get across was that, even if by deep-striking you position yourself near meltaguns, you still aren't having to deal with any long ranged anti-tank weapons for the two turns it would normally take to get your transported squad near the enemy. But you're right, it's not nearly as cheap as it seemed when I first heard about it. 

As to the bet I proposed, I later realized this was pointless; as you've pointed out, anyone can make a bad list. I'm just trying to say that this codex has so much unbalanced stuff that you would have to _try_ to make a list that wasn't nigh-unbeatable.

The main reason I was ranting wasn't so much about the unfairness of the new rules, which aren't really that far off from what GW has been doing to every 40K codex it's updated since Space Marines. (Excluding Imperial Guard, even though they can take an obscene amount of scoring units under the 5th edition codex.) My main beef with shit like Rhinos and Razorbacks that are fast, and Predators that can scout, and mini-Thunderhawk gunship transports, is that this is all stuff that most other chapters should have available. I mean, Blood Angels aren't the only Chapter out there that like close combat or like to be fast. Why are they the only ones with skimmer transports and flying land raiders? Maybe the new codex will explain better, but right now I'm having a hard time imagining the explanation for deep striking land raiders that isn't equally applicable to some other chapter, like Raven Guard, or Space Wolves.

Oh, and by the way KingOfCheese, only non-vehicle troop choices count as scoring units, so the Death Company dreadnought would not be able to hold objectives.


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## rxcky (Jun 7, 2008)

Wax_Assassin said:


> And wrong on the VGV. They get DoA when they equip their jump packs. I'm guessing you didn't look in the wargear section where it says under jump packs that any unit that takes them also gets DoA.


Sorry to burst Wax_Assassin's bubble, and more than likely cause him to have another go at me, but DOA doesn't work like that, you don't get it just because you have a jump pack it needs to be listed in the troops special rules, as after all that is what it is.
What the dex says is that troops with the DOA special rule do what we all know they do, it then goes on to say that any other troops held in reserve that choose to deepstrike do so using the normal rules. VGV dont get DOA, and lets be fair if they did it would make them really broken, they are already cheaper than codex VGV but to have DOA and heroic intervention would be very silly.

As for the landraider deepstike into enemy deployment, totally do-able, just get a couple of drop pods in there in the first turn and a squad of scout bikes all with locator beacons and bobs your uncle, no roll for scatter.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Salahaldin said:


> Oh, and by the way KingOfCheese, only non-vehicle troop choices count as scoring units, so the Death Company dreadnought would not be able to hold objectives.


Who said anything about the Death Company Dreadnought???

We were talking about the Death Company, not the Death Company Dreadnought.


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## Salahaldin (Aug 15, 2009)

Wax_Assassin said:


> You know, I had just gotten past the HQ section of my list for you when I realized that you don't want a good list (which to be fair I might have not even produced) that will be balanced, you want a list that you can look at and say, "Oh ok, I can beat that."


By the way, I was talking about the new codex, the one that's not out yet. Have you already managed to get your hands on the new one? Or did you think I was referring to the old one?

Oh, and KingOfCheese, sorry, I misread the post. Earlier people were talking about Death Company Dreadnoughts as troops choices, I thought you were asking if they could hold objectives.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

rxcky said:


> Sorry to burst Wax_Assassin's bubble, and more than likely cause him to have another go at me, but DOA doesn't work like that, you don't get it just because you have a jump pack it needs to be listed in the troops special rules, as after all that is what it is.
> What the dex says is that troops with the DOA special rule do what we all know they do, it then goes on to say that any other troops held in reserve that choose to deepstrike do so using the normal rules. VGV dont get DOA, and lets be fair if they did it would make them really broken, they are already cheaper than codex VGV but to have DOA and heroic intervention would be very silly. Snip snip


Actually it does work like that ... in the jump pack section of the wargear page it states jump packs confer the DoA rule.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

@ Salahaldin:

What? Are you joking? You think IG are crap? They have the BEST Codex of anyone...


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## Salahaldin (Aug 15, 2009)

I didn't say their codex was crap, far from it; my Tyranids have recieved far too many beat-downs from them to think that. I'm just saying that their codex doesn't have ridiculous characters, units or special rules like these other codices. The one thing they get which is even slightly unbalanced is their new platoon organization, allowing a possible 36 scoring units. Other then that, their codex is pretty good, but not full of unbalanced stuff like the Tyranid codex, which is full to bursting with special characters with ridiculous effects, (Like the Doom of Malantai) and unit upgrades/options that practically promote beardiness. (Mycetic Spore armies, Warriors as troop choices with 3 wounds and 4+ save standard, etc.)

When I said "...from what GW has been doing to every 40K codex it's updated since Space Marines." I didn't mean making great codices, I meant adding ridiculous new units and rules so that everyone buys that codex.

Imperial Guard have a great codex, though I don't know about the BEST codex of all...


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## rxcky (Jun 7, 2008)

Talthewicked said:


> Actually it does work like that ... in the jump pack section of the wargear page it states jump packs confer the DoA rule.


If so I stand humbally corrected, but come on, As much as this will make it even easier to win with my SM army now, this is super broken!


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

They get a new codex that fully embraces the fact that 5th Ed is MechHammer, and an organization that gives them 15 billion scoring units alling with special weapons deployments that make the Eldar rub their soulstones with envy. And their transports have firing points.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Having played no games with the 'dex, I do wonder how anyone could claim it was broken.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

The Doom of Malantai is perfectly balanced, because it is T4. Since, in the real world, armies bring plenty of S8 weaponry, it only needs to fail one save to lose it's 3 gazillion wounds in one go.


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## Something Yellow (Nov 22, 2009)

Random topic: Which HQ character/s should I choose when they are all out and why?
I'm thinking of Dante... Just because he has an awesome name


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I've been told Tycho is the best overall. I didn't check for myself though.

BA Librarians might turn out to be worthwhile. :wink:


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> I've been told Tycho is the best overall. I didn't check for myself though.
> 
> BA Librarians might turn out to be worthwhile. :wink:


Best over all is mephiston by far, he is 250pts of ownage.

Then again you can take 1-3 Sang priests per elite slot which can join diffrent squads giving what ever they join Feel no pain...


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I doubt Mephiston will be worth as many points as a Land Raider.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

I doubt that I will ever use mephiston unless I want to play a random nutty game, Tyco is rather interesting and I must say I kinda like Seth ...having my guys pillage like crazed bastards would be interesting. The codex as I read it does have its strong points and its weak points, I think that the real strength of this codex though is the synergy that you can put together to get the Army to do what you want.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

I think that Mephiston will get under rated due to his high points cost. Having all those psychic attacks per turn, along with savage stats, is going to put some pain onto the enemy.

Mainly because if they choose to spend all their time shooting him to death, then the rest of your shiz wasn't busy getting shot at. If they choose not to shoot him to death, then... erm... bad shit happens when he arrives.

People are ruling him out, I think, far too quickly...

No, he may not be the best tactical choice. However, I imagine that if you use him as some kind of sponge for fire, through pure scare-mongering, then he could be useful.

I mean, let's face it, with no IC the enemy can just shoot the fucker. If that's the case, then knowing his stats, they are going to want to. If they don't want to, then they will feel some pain. Either way, pain happens.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

I cant disagree, I will probably try him in a few games for shits and giggles, and must admit that I do see him as a sponge of lead right now. Huge points sink to me but I figure that most people will concentrate most of a couple of rounds of fire on him to kill him letting most of the rest of my army free to kill kill kill:smoke:


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes it seems although he is fairly powerful but he also seems fairly squishy...... what with no inv save and no feel no pain rule.


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

a few questions.

1) how the fuck are you supposed to take care of 30 Death Company in one squad?? most people have a hard time dealing with 30 boyz with a 5+ cover, let alone 30 guys in Power Armor with Feel no Pain (they still have that right?)

2) whats the fluff reason for Landraiders Deep Striking? are they being dropped off a Thunderhawk? or is it like the Angry Marine Titan? (link below) is there a downside to DSing? like do they take a glancing hit or something?

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs41/f/2009/011/4/e/Angry_Titan_by_Gannadene.jpg



gen.ahab said:


> Yes it seems although he is fairly powerful but he also seems fairly squishy...... what with no inv save and no feel no pain rule.


yeah cause 6 toughness, 2+ armor save, and 5 wounds is easy to kill without a force weapon...


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

As I understand it Blood Angels use Thunderhawks heavily so I would assume that is where the DS for the LR comes from. Bombs away baby.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

It's called wolf guard Joka..... Use the combi-weapons on him and if he doesn't die charge him. Seems straight forword to me.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

It'll be super easy to give Mephiston cover, remember. He's not really any bigger than a normal Librarian so if he's hiding behind a vehicle of some kind he'll get cover. Also, you could always just stand him behind a friendly unit. He's not a Monstrous Creature so he still benefits from cover just like Infantry do.


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## Crimson Shadow (Jan 15, 2009)

Katie beat me to it. Under the .pdf rules I gave Mephiston a Jump Pack Honor Guard that ranged out in front of him. Now granted he could join the squad then, but the practice still holds true. Put models in front of him. He's not "with" the squad, but he's damn sure hiding behind them.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

If you do all that, is Mephiston along for the ride to support the troops/tank *OR* are the troops/tank along for the ride to support him?

The question comes up then, is he worth taking if you have to do all of that to protect him?


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Why protect him?

He has T6 and a save of 2+, and W5 (or W4, I don't remember). That means rarely any opportunities for instant death, ever. It also means that the enemy is going to have to devote alot of firepower to bring him down.

I say let them. He is only one model. If they REALLY want to waste ALL that firepower to kill ONE unit, then more fool them, basically.

I'll definitely be trying Mephiston out. I plan on converting my own model though. I've already thought the modelling out, and I'll probably start it this weekend.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

At 250 points I just can't see the point in using him. Might as well use a landraider.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

I already gave a "point". A fire magnet that isn't actually worth shooting at.

A landraider is hardly any different in that regard - it's going to draw fire that would normally be directed at other units - that's a plain fact.

The thing is, a landraider is MASSIVE and mephiston is the size of a man - much easier to hit the 'raider...


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

The Real Sanguinius said:


> I already gave a "point". A fire magnet that isn't actually worth shooting at.
> 
> A landraider is hardly any different in that regard - it's going to draw fire that would normally be directed at other units - that's a plain fact.
> 
> The thing is, a landraider is MASSIVE and mephiston is the size of a man - much easier to hit the 'raider...


So if your fire magnet can't be seen most of the time then it's not much of a fire magnet is it :grin:


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Much harder to kill the land raider though.... and it can serve as a firebase and transport troops quickly.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Hmmm...

These are all valid points, too.

I think I'm going to have to test it, and see if it works as it potentially could. Sometimes things go alot differently in actuall use.


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## Scorpion01 (Mar 15, 2010)

Does anyone know what Ranged Weapons the Dreads are going to have?


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## OceanofBlood (Oct 19, 2009)

Yeah what was the thinking behind LANDRAIDERS DEEP STRIKING!?!?!?!?!!? thats nuts, literally. Do they squash units if they land on them? the EFF!?


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

The thinking behind land raiders deep striking makes perfect sense - the recess beneath a thunderhawk is actually there to carry a land raider...


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

The Real Sanguinius said:


> The thinking behind land raiders deep striking makes perfect sense - the recess beneath a thunderhawk is actually there to carry a land raider...



Yup they are! a local guy converted his thunderhawk into a 3 Foot carrier 

Also.....

Will the real Sanguinius please stand up? Please Stand up!

:biggrin:


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

......... I believe I just shat myself. lol


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## Talthewicked2 (Mar 16, 2010)

OceanofBlood said:


> Yeah what was the thinking behind LANDRAIDERS DEEP STRIKING!?!?!?!?!!? thats nuts, literally. Do they squash units if they land on them? the EFF!?


Thought it went by standard DS rules ... not sure TBH.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

A Thunderhawk can't actually carry a Land Raider, it's another example of a piece of artwork completely disregarding all info that's already available.
A Thunderhawk Transporter can carry a single Land Raider or 2 Rhinos but must sacrifice it's large cannon and infantry transportation ability to do so.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

That is still a thunderhawk.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Exactly. I don't see a problem.

IIRC the artist that drew the pic I posted was also contracted to produce some GW official artwork, too.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Yes but the Thunderhawk in that piece of art doesn't *look* like a Thunderhawk Transporter- might be an official artist but he made a mistake.

EDIT:
Thunderhawk









Thunderhawk Transporter


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

two similar but very different looking animals , have to admit i prefer the transporter,looks alot more refined and less like a box with wings

this is my favorite version of the thunderhawk 

http://www.solegends.com/citcat9x3/c92415epicimpwarmachines-01.htm


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes but since it can carry a dread it would indicate it is a different animal all together.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

bitsandkits said:


> this is my favorite version of the thunderhawk
> 
> http://www.solegends.com/citcat9x3/c92415epicimpwarmachines-01.htm


Hahhahaha.........................


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## Feytor (Apr 1, 2009)

Looks like a shoebox. : O


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## Something Yellow (Nov 22, 2009)

I went to my GW shop last night to have a flick through the new codex... wow its awesome! 
The new death company dreadnoughts are insane, you can give em lightning claws and they have this perk that when you kill a enemy model you can re-roll the attacks for every model you killed.. so on the charge he has i think 5 st 6 attacks.. He hits on 3+'s and KILLS marines on 2+'s (lightning claw) with re-rolls to wound (I think) Then lets just say you killed 3 marines, you get an extra 3 attacks, you then kill 2 more marines so you get another 2 attacks and that goes on until you miss... PLUS they can have a meltagun AND a storm bolter/flamer which might help a bit.. oh yeah they also has Fleet..

NICE


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Yes, the weapon is a blood talon. I think you MUST take a certain number of Death Co marines before you can take a Death Co dreadnought though.

And that means spending ALOT of points on a load of non-scoring units.


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## jimbob1254 (Apr 22, 2009)

I just had a very long read through the codex and first off i must say i love it 
Libby dreads that fly WTf (but awesome)
Deep striking LR awesome i just have a image of a angry techmarine kicking it out of the battle barge in space lol 
Mephiston is more awesome than he used to be and he used to be good, i done a few test rolls and he killed marnus calgar and capto sicarus and a full squad of kroot 
But and it is a big but he's can be squished relatively easily, for something with T6 W5 and WS7, 5 man squad of thunder hammer termies killed him basically.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

The Real Sanguinius said:


> Yes, the weapon is a blood talon. I think you MUST take a certain number of Death Co marines before you can take a Death Co dreadnought though.
> 
> And that means spending ALOT of points on a load of non-scoring units.


It's only 5, which is 100 points (ish) + the Dread.

However, apparently DC Dreads don't take up Force Org slots. Yeah, I know.


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## Sanguinary Dan (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm pretty certain that DC do use Troops slot. Regardless, with the high cost of our stuff it would take a pretty large game to make you wish you didn't have to use the 5th and 6th slots on your DC and DCF.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Absolutely. I didn't get to see it myself today, but a staffer told me DCDs don't take up a slot, while DC, obvs, still do. It means you cannot have an all DC army without Astroboy...but that's not really an issue. 

If true, ofc.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I guess Daemon Weapons, Mark of Khorn, and Warp Time put together have nothing on the attack power of a Death Company marine. OMK (oh my Khorn) help us.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

The guy in the shop the other day calculated the points cost for a 30 man DC squad with astorath, all with jump packs. Came to around 1100+ points, on its own.

Considering the DC have fleet, furious charge, relentless, fearless, feel no pain and a weapon skill of 5, you can guarantee that they are going to absolutely rape.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

The Real Sanguinius said:


> The guy in the shop the other day calculated the points cost for a 30 man DC squad with astorath, all with jump packs. Came to around 1100+ points, on its own.
> 
> Considering the DC have fleet, furious charge, relentless, fearless, feel no pain and a weapon skill of 5, you can guarantee that they are going to absolutely rape.


LOL. They don't have Rending. Don't they also have Rage?

Also, that DC Squad, by my calculation, is 1050...so it's a bit more than that. Without any Power Weapons or Fists.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

I didn't say rending. I said relentless.

And I think that they only have rage if they aren't accompanied by a reclusiarch, which is a squad upgrade. So, yes, they do have rage. However, for the cost of a reclusiarch in the squad (I think it's Lemartes, but I don't remember), you might aswell do it. It isn't as though the chaplain doesn't kick ass anyway.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I know...my point is that, without Rending, what are they going to do to Mech? Fleeting Jump Packs are all very well and good...but if you can't scratch my paint, then it doesn't matter if you catch me.

I don't know the exact cost of a Reclusiarch, but I imagine 70+ points...so an outlay of maybe 1200 on this Deathstar, plus Astroboy himself...Better hope I don't have small disposable units to draw you away from the objectives while I win 1-0 every game. (if you keep Rage)


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Oh, I'm not arguing that they would win.

It isn't REALLY 1200points, because a 30 man squad with "astroboy" would still require another troop choice.

You do know that every man in the squad has the option of taking PF or TH... right?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I didn't know TH were an option for all...but I'd laugh even harder if someone did. And offer them an Apoc game so they could use them. lol

See if 30 DC can kill a Stompa...(actually, that'd probably be too easy. 4/5 Stompas for equal points...)


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## Widowmaker666 (Jul 30, 2008)

:lazy2: stupid. Another other powered new army for people to dish out their whole pay-checks for. whatever though, I wont complain, it'll just be twice as fun getting to kill all them blood-suckers:biggrin:


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Widowmaker666 said:


> :lazy2: stupid. Another other powered new army


Your right to post has been revoked. 

Seriously. Try playing against the army a few times before forming such an opinion. Damning an entire army out of hand is pretty harsh and pretty unwise.


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

To be fair, while he may have meant to complain he screwed up. Words 2-6, ie "another powered new army" is perfectly true. I mean, they wear power armour, right? 

Amusingly, I'm going through the reverse of what he is. I may be screaming bloody murder, but the overall look and feel of the army (aside from Blood Talons. WTF? 35/36 chance to wound and then you get another attack? I thought they got rid of the "roll to hit until you miss x times" game when the new codex removed SHEDS? wait, I wasn't going to bitch...) is rock solid. I'm looking forward to playing against something that feels properly like BA. Plus... now I can play against a competitive Night Lords of Khorne army! Woo!


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