# Watchers of the dark



## ArcAngels (Sep 19, 2007)

Ok so if the have EL'johnson in a stasis tube deep in the rock doesnt that technically mean the imperium still has a living primarch? and at that isnt guilliman still alive? he suffered a wound from fulgrim by the same weapon that wounded horus, soo in theory he was put instasis until they could figure how to save, him, well in in false gods they saved horus so it could be done with guilliman, thats two primarchs for the imperium, that could tip the balance in war very drastically. I really thought russ was gunna come back in the Eye of terror campaign but no only the 13th comapny. what do yall think?


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Thats not all, both Leman russ and Corax disappeared into the warp where time has no meaning, so they could be alive somewhere in there, the khan also followed eldar into their webway and no one knows where he went to also. The imperium may have equal the amount of primarchs that chaos have. Also Dorns body was never recovered to only his hand.


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## cerrakoth (Nov 7, 2007)

there is no evidence that any of the primarchs afore mentioned are deceased, it says in the codex's that they are 'presumed deceased' or in Stasis&it is just a rumor that the lion is in the Rock no fact there=]


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

cerrakoth said:


> there is no evidence that any of the primarchs afore mentioned are deceased, it says in the codex's that they are 'presumed deceased' or in Stasis&it is just a rumor that the lion is in the Rock no fact there=]


Its a fact the lion is in the center of the rock, it states so in the book "Eye of Terror"


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Yeah. He's in a locked room in the middle of the Rock being tended to by the Watchers in the Dark. Leman Russ said he would return for the last battle, and I'm fairly confident Janghati Khan is still alive. Corax is probably alive, and Dorn is simply missing. Gulliman and El'Johnson are the only two confirmed living primarchs, although one does nothing and the other will die if they take him out of stasis.

-Dirge


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## cerrakoth (Nov 7, 2007)

hmm haven't read the eye of terror thing=] but unless there is a sudden dip in 40ksales they wont move the story line regarding primarchs on for many many years.=]


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## ArcAngels (Sep 19, 2007)

russ said hed break through any plane of existence hes on to fight with the wolves in the wolf time, but he said it crypticaly like as if the chapter would be dying like he was when he took off into the warp


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## cerrakoth (Nov 7, 2007)

well pretty much all the Primarchs are alive theoretically they're just as good as dead at the moment but as we don't know about the other two (legion II and XI) we cant say that even if the 'good' Primarchs were alive they'd tip the balance in anyway. but as I said there as good as dead and will remain for many many years.=]


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Leman Russ is like a viking King Arthur.

He will return to fight with his beloved wolves, in the final battle, when their need for him is greatest. "For the Wolf time!" - it's a classic allegory used in norse mythology - something the writers of background mined quite happily when filling it in.

Any of the eddas could quite easily be interpreted as Space Wolf epic campaigns/character stories. 

As to the others - I've not read a lot of BL - blame CS Goto for that. So I don't know.

As to the HH novels, I'm not really concerned that they could be the best thing since the last thing that was better than sliced bread if there remains the slightest chance that they are as tainted. I was stung by the Dune prequels. Never again.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

UPDATE: Rogal Dorn is dead. They have his skeleton hung up in the Phalanx. The Chapter Masters get to carve their symbol on his hands.

-Dirge


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## Pyromanic Tendencies (Mar 20, 2007)

Really? I was under the imperssion that ONLY his hand was found.


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## angels of fire (Dec 4, 2007)

Hey didnt vulkan go missing after issvan 5


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

So what loyalist Primaches are certinaly dead? Didn't realise Lion was in the rock, though the DA codex says he will soon return.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Vulkan survived since he was one of the primarchs to side with vulkan when guilliman wanted to split the legions. Rogal dorns hand is the only piece remaining though its plausible he's alive. blood angels one is dead, leman russ and corax flew off to the eye of terror, the khan followed dark eldar into their webway. Ferrus manus is dead according to the horus heresy books. guilliman is in status as is lion el johnson. Have i missed any?


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

Got all 9 loyalist.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

nope, they only have rogal dorns hand and his weapons i thought. what are the watchers in the dark exctly though?


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## cerrakoth (Nov 7, 2007)

they're little 'unknown' species that guard certain places in the rock eg the room holding the lion. In HH they show that they can see the future, and they KNOW the future but they are a bigger mystery than the lion himself(no ones ever seen what lies bellow there robes)


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## ArcAngels (Sep 19, 2007)

the watchers are extremly powerful psykers who are invulnerable to any known weaponry the imperium has to offer. they follow dark angels into battle from time to time as bearers of icons and even the lion helm itself when acompanying the grand master into battle. the watchers are tending to the lion shattered body, because luther mortaly wounded him before chaos finished caliban off. crazy stuff, how did vulkan survive? like lol they never talk about it all i know is that he dint come back to terra with corax's wounded body and the survovors of the drop site massacre but yet he was around to object to guillimans divisions of the legions during the second founding. so he must have done something crazy to survive that massacre


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## angels of fire (Dec 4, 2007)

Nobody knows what happened to vulkan as there isnt enough fluff on him.:angry:


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Vulkan, Russ, Khan, Corax, and Ferrus Manus are Unknown. Most of them said they'd be back for the Last War against Chaos.

@Arcangels: Corax survived the Drop Site Massacre and rebuilt his legion extremely fast, resulting in a bunch of howling mutants. He killed them all personally and fled from Deliverance in a stolen shuttle for the Eye of Terror.

Lion El'Johnson and Gulliman have spent the last 10,000 years on the toilet.

Dorn is dead.


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## cerrakoth (Nov 7, 2007)

Ferrus is dead .HH series is there to finalise alot of things so ferrus is dead.


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## Andros (Dec 10, 2007)

Well i thought Corax and Vulken were kinda blow up at Isstvan 5, though I've never really looked into them.........

Also, what about the Chaos Primarchs? Angron was around until Armegeddon where Grey Knights had him about face, Mortirion i think is still around...... Magnus is still around, Lorgar I'm not too sure about

or any of the rest except Horus who is dead now, i think, never can tell with Chaos


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Lorgar, Fulgrim, Perturabo, Mortarion, and Magnus are Demon Princes. Angron is banished, he'll be back in a few thousand years. Horus and Kurze are dead.

-Dirge


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## angels of fire (Dec 4, 2007)

Primarch
From Lexicanum
(Redirected from Primarchs)
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The Primarchs were the twenty genetically-engineered "sons" of the Emperor. The Emperor used his own DNA in their creation, and they were designed to be far superior to the average human: immensely larger, stronger, hardier, faster, and smarter. They were also incredibly charismatic, as their main role was to be generals and leaders of the Imperial military. 

Contents
[hide]
1 Creation of the Primarchs 
1.1 Fate of the Primarchs 
1.2 Traitors 
1.3 Loyalists 
2 The two unknown Primarchs 
2.1 Horus' visions of the scattering of the Primarchs 
3 sources and references 
4 Related Articles 


[edit] Creation of the Primarchs
They were created in a secret underground laboratory on Luna under tightest security. However, somehow the forces of Chaos managed to spirit them away just prior to their maturation and it is speculated that they also managed to tamper with the infant Primarchs. These were scattered across the galaxy, beyond the Emperor's reach, and all of them landed on different worlds. The Emperor could sense that the Primarchs were alive, but was unable to reach them. Therefore he used their previously collected DNA samples to create the Space Marines. The genetic material of each one of them was used to found a single Space Marine Legion, twenty in total. 

Their homeworlds and their infancy would influence and mould them to a large extent. There they quickly grew to adulthood and often rose to power, ruling, leading, and helping the inhabitants. As the Emperor found them, he was generally pleased by their actions, and quickly gave them the leadership of their respective legion. 

The first Primarch to be found was Horus, who became the Emperor's favourite. Most Primarchs somehow recognized the Emperor on sight, and immediately pledged their allegiance on the spot. A few, (Leman Russ, Ferrus Manus and Vulkan) only followed Him after being bested in contests. Angron refused, and was abducted from his homeworld, something he never really accepted. The last to be found was Alpharius. 

At the end of the Great Crusade Warmaster Horus fell to Chaos, and eight of his fellow Primarchs followed him into the Horus Heresy against the Emperor, resulting in a full-scale civil war. Each Primarch chose his side, loyalists against traitors, leading their legions against their former comrades. 




legion number name homeworld name of the legion allegiance current status 
I Lion El'Jonson Caliban Dark Angels loyal alive, asleep within the Rock 
II Deleted from Imperial records, authorisation unknown 
III Fulgrim Chemos Emperor's Children traitor Daemon Prince 
IV Perturabo Olympia Iron Warriors traitor Daemon Prince, ruler of Medrengard 
V Jaghatai Khan Mundus Planus White Scars loyal disappeared into the Webway 
VI Leman Russ Fenris Space Wolves loyal disappeared into the Eye of Terror 
VII Rogal Dorn unknown Imperial Fists loyal died boarding a Chaos cruiser, his hand was the only thing recovered 
VIII Konrad Curze/Night Haunter Nostramo Night Lords traitor dead, assassinated by Callidus assassin M´Shen 
IX Sanguinius Baal Blood Angels loyal dead, slain by Horus 
X Ferrus Manus Medusa Iron Hands loyal dead, slain by Fulgrim and his head offered to Horus 
XI Deleted from Imperial records, authorisation unknown 
XII Angron unknown World Eaters traitor Daemon Prince 
XIII Roboute Guilliman Macragge Ultramarines loyal dead, slain by Fulgrim, rumoured to be healing in stasis 
XIV Mortarion Barbarus Death Guard traitor Daemon Prince, ruler of the Plague Planet 
XV Magnus the Red Prospero Thousand Sons traitor Daemon Prince, ruler of the Planet of Sorcerers 
XVI Horus Cthonia Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus traitor dead, slain by the Emperor 
XVII Lorgar Colchis Word Bearers traitor Daemon Prince, ruler of Sicarus 
XVIII Vulkan Nocturne Salamanders loyal disappeared 
XIX Corax Deliverance Raven Guard loyal disappeared, last seen heading for the Eye of Terror 
XX Alpharius unknown Alpha Legion traitor dead, slain by Roboute Guilliman. 




Fate of the Primarchs
Traitors
Warmaster Horus was killed by the Emperor of Mankind, and his soul was obliterated. His corpse was completely destroyed by Abaddon the Despoiler, who also took over his place as overall leader of the Chaos Space Marines. 
Magnus the Red rose to the rank of Daemon Prince of Tzeentch. 
Angron rose to the rank of of Daemon prince of Khorne. 
Mortarion rose the rank of Daemon Prince of Nurgle. 
Fulgrim rose to the rank of Daemon Prince of Slaanesh. 
Lorgar rose to the rank of Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided. 
Perturabo rose to the rank of Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided. 
Conrad Kurze, aka Night Haunter, was assassinated by Callidus assassin M'Shen. He allowed her infiltration, apparently wanting to die. 
Alpharius was killed by Roboute Guilliman, but the source which reported his death may have been manipulated. 
Loyalists
Ferrus Manus died at the Drop Site massacre at the start of the Horus Heresy, and Fulgrim presented his head to Horus. 
Sanguinius was slain by Horus after refusing to join him. 
Lion El'Jonson returned to his homeworld of Caliban only to discover that his friend and second-in command Luther and the Dark Angel garrison had turned against him2. He led a strike force of his own loyal Dark Angels against the traitors. He disapeared amongst the inferno as the world was blasted apart by a Warp Storm and a bombardment from his ships in orbit. He sleeps deep within the Rock, the biggest piece of Caliban and current homebase of the Dark Angels1,2. Only the Emperor and the Watchers of the Dark know of this secret. 
Jaghatai Khan disappeared as he was pursuing Dark Eldar into a webway portal after they had managed to raid Mundus Planus. Rumours abound that he fights there still, lost in the twisting paths of the Webway. After nine thousand years it seems highly unlikely, but not impossible. 
Leman Russ disappeared in the Eye of Terror. The Space Wolves hold a legend that says Russ went on a quest to find a means to cure the Emperor. His final words before his disapperance is that he would return for the Wolftime. 
Rogal Dorn boarded a Chaos cruiser during a Black Crusade alongside a company of his sons and died fighting. He was one of the last Primarchs to die. Today, all that remains of him are the bones of his hand that are housed in the holiest shrine of the Imperial Fists chapter. Another theory states that he now commands the Adeptus Custodes. 
Roboute Guilliman was struck down with an envenomed blade by his former brother Fulgrim. His body is perfectly preserved in a stasis field at the heart of the Temple of Correction3. It is rumored that he is alive and that his wounds are slowly healing, something normally impossible in a stasis field. The truth of this rumor is unknown. 
Vulkan disappeared. The position of Chapter Master, filled by the Captain of the First Company, is considered to be a regency as the Salamanders believe that Vulkan will one day return and lead them on a great crusade against Chaos. 
Corax was racked by guilt and shame. In order to rebuild quickly the strength of his legion from the Dropsite massacre on Isstvan V, Corax accelerated the growth of the gene-seed organs, producing more Space Marines, but this process also deteriorated the Gene-seed, causing many to become hulking monsters. Riddled with guilt over what he had done, Corax administered euthanasia to all of them and then locked himself away within his sanctum, the Raven's Tower. Exactly one year later he left his tower, haggard and gaunt, and took a small shuttle craft with the words Never more. It was last monitored setting a course for the Eye of Terror
I didnt copy any of this.... honest:biggrin::biggrin::wink::wink:


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## Andros (Dec 10, 2007)

u didn't? well u have a mind and a half 

well thanks for info, now i know which are dead/missing and which are snoozing and losing


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## ArcAngels (Sep 19, 2007)

you think vulcan was rescued by the survivors of the final istavaan bombing? do you think theres a possibility we will see another story with the hero saul tarvitz?


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

No, he's dead. Remember in "Galaxy in Flames" when he was just standing outside during the final bombing? Horus would have made sure NOTHING was left.

It's a nice thought though....Rylanor might have survived, being a Dreadnought.

-Dirge


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## ArcAngels (Sep 19, 2007)

dude if you read collected visions its clearly stated by maloghurst to the warmaster that there would be survivors of the bombing, and horus responded by saying that they would end up dying on that dead planet in the end anyway so yeah there were survivors and we dont know what ended up with them and if there was a launch bay they may have saved Vulcan


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Good point, yeah....Sounds good to me!

-Dirge


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## cerrakoth (Nov 7, 2007)

Angron was banished for 200years I thought? not thousands?


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## ArcAngels (Sep 19, 2007)

At the cost of 200 grey knights yeah angron was banished for 200 years, not very long eh, but they have his name in a grimoire and if he sticks his nose in mortal affairs he can be banished by simply uttering his name to him. silly demons with the whole name thing. sad thing is in those 200 years he was gone it probably took those 200 years to build back up the men lost in the grey knights chapter


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## CommanderDuskstorm (Jan 31, 2008)

cccp said:


> nope, they only have rogal dorns hand and his weapons i thought. what are the watchers in the dark exctly though?


I recently read something when I googled "Hrud" that states the Watchers in the Dark are the Hrud. It also says that the DA Azrael's helmet bearer is one of them.


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## Metal_Ead (Jan 30, 2008)

Yah I buy that, It makes Dark Angels so much more intresting. Alien Lovers! I heard the Hrud can move out of phase with our dimension, and out of phase with time. So maybe they are the galaxie's formost experts at temporal sciences/ magics, and thus the only ones that can tend to Lion 'El Jhonson. As the stasis pod is thier making. Maybe the Stasis Grenades from 2nd Edition wer Hrud tech? Who knows. All cool however.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

The pistol Uriel Ventris uses to kill a Norn Queen in _Warriors of Ultramar_ was Hrud make. It seems the Imperium is not so Xenophobic after all.

-Dirge


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## inqusitor_me (Jan 27, 2008)

it is romured that the Watchers in the Dark are mad by the DA'S due to there past ....lets say there all heritics lol some thing to do with that it says in the dex some where.
also a nuther note GW keep changeing the way the heresy happons all the feking time 
dont get me rong i love the book that have came out but when you've had it change fom what you kno its aa pain in the ass.
one more thing Dron still could be alive due to the hand only being found the chaos gods coud of pulled him into the worp so dont be suprised if that wats happons lol (only if GW want more cash lol)oh WHO THE SMEG ARE THE OFFER TWO any one got an idea of who thay are


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## ShankFist (Feb 21, 2008)

How do you know that Uriels pistol was made by the Hruud?


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## Silb (Jan 28, 2008)

This is what would happen if rogal dorn was found alive:

Imperial Fist 1: Sir! We thought you were dead!
Dorn: I was, then some people came out of nowhere and brought me back to life. When I asked why they saved me, one of them said something about it being for the Greater Wallet.
Imperial Fist 1: Sir, have you taken your pills recently?
Imperial Fist 2: Look! A new chaos god! And the dark eldar appear to have dissapeared without a trace!
Imperial Fist 1: Oh crap! It's the fifth edition! Quickly, barricade the ship and watch out for any Games Workshop fluff changing lasers! 
Imperial Fist 2: Sir, for some reason our jump infantry are finding themselves incapable of holding objectives!! 
Dorn: NOOOOOO!!!!!! CURSE YOU, 5TH EDITION!!!!


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## Dimitri_Lensoven (Feb 18, 2008)

GW made a chapter that was 'considered a rumor' in the fluff, they had bones painted on their armour. did anyone else see that on GW's website, and if u did, any other info on them or their primarch


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

you talkin about the Legion of the Damned? if you are, there was another cursed chapter, fire hawkes (not to be confused with flame falcons) that got lost in the warp or something and were deemed lost and destroyed. then this unsanctioned chapter appeared (Legion of the Damned) helping the imperium left and right, taking orders from no one but themselves. they are apparently the most godly chapter of all the imperium. it is speculated that they are the fire hawkes transformed because their ships and the glyphs on the ships are the same ones the fire hawkes had before they disappered.


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## Sinister Minister (Feb 13, 2008)

Yep sound like the Legion Of The Damned. They used to have quite a bit of coverage of these guys back in 2nd Edition. Maybe one article in 3rd edition.


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