# New HH novel in the pipeline "The First Heretic"



## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

it seems Aaron Dembski-Bowden has joined the HH team and has his first novel in the pipeline. its called "The First Heretic" and at the momenet it all seems to be in his noggin. he described his upcoming novel as:

"I say the barest minimum possible about my core idea for The First Heretic. In my mind, I'm weaving a saga of immense personal tragedy, galactic disorder, and the death of innocent worlds. Love and hate collide in a touching drama between father and son, and brother pits themselves against brother as an interstellar empire burns"

full blog here:
http://adembskibowden.livejournal.com/5581.html

any ideas on what this could function around?

* i personally think it will have to be about Lorgar myself! "father and son" implies the BigE and a primarch is involved. and "brother against brother" could be about the 'self clensing' the Word Bearers performed pre-heresy. and the fact that Lorgar was the first to fall to chaos make a good fit for the title... anyone else have any opinoins?

this title is still a long way off! but that wont stop us disecting it!


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Agreed, its most likely about Lorgar and his fall to Chaos. Which means we'll be seeing some Erebus , perhaps even a young Eliphas .


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## Dar'kir (Jul 11, 2009)

that word be awesome. heres hoping it is.


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## FORTHELION (Nov 21, 2009)

yeah sounds like it alright. though why they are going right back to the very beginning now is a bit strange. you would think this prob should have been the very first hh book


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

FORTHELION said:


> yeah sounds like it alright. though why they are going right back to the very beginning now is a bit strange. you would think this prob should have been the very first hh book


In chronological order then yes but I think Horus was the obvious first choice. Show how he fell before explaining all the background events that led to it.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Remember, _Descent of Angels_ took place before the original trilogy, too.

Yeah, it'll probably be about Lorgar and company, but... remember, don't get your hopes up too far. The idea may have been received well at a planning council, but that's no guarantee that it will get published.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

A book about Lorgar is nice but what I want is a book about the Night Lords. I want to know what the Emperor ordered them to do, secretly, during the crusade. I also want to know what Konrad Curze's childhood was like.

Or perhaps a book about Mortarion or Sanguinius, one actually about them rather then their legions. Im tired of Horus, Horus and then more Horus, I know he was important but not THAT important.


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## Boganius Maximal (Oct 31, 2009)

Sounds like a good read if its about the Wordbearers but others on this thread are right in saying hopefully they bring out some books on the other lesser heard of legions and their Primarchs.


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## FORTHELION (Nov 21, 2009)

Im tired of Horus, Horus and then more Horus, I know he was important but not THAT important.[/QUOTE]

there has actually been very little about horus since the first three books cosidering were now at book 12 or something like that. i wouldnt mind finding out whats been going on since. though the word bearers book (if thts what it is) should b really cool to see where it all started.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Excellent
Lorgar's fall has fascinated me for ages
I am definitely psyked for this and tho Erebus is a creep
he is a fantastic charactor

Great find brother subtle


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

I reckon you are right on the subject. Lorgar's tale is the most important in understanding the start of the Horus Heresy and one that is long overdue telling. Can't wait to read it.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

i wonder if it will cross paths with the Word Bearers short story in he Tales of Heresy book?


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Brother Subtle said:


> it seems Aaron Dembski-Bowden has joined the HH team and has his first novel in the pipeline. its called "The First Heretic" and at the momenet it all seems to be in his noggin. he described his upcoming novel as:
> 
> "I say the barest minimum possible about my core idea for The First Heretic. In my mind, I'm weaving a saga of immense personal tragedy, galactic disorder, and the death of innocent worlds. Love and hate collide in a touching drama between father and son, and brother pits themselves against brother as an interstellar empire burns"
> 
> ...


For the record, that was... hyperbole. It was just a generic description of the Heresy, exaggerated up to 11 for chuckles. It wasn't specifically the plot of _The First Heretic_. 

If I really talked like that about my work (in staggeringly overblown and pretentious terms) I would demand that my friends killed me immediately.



Mossy Toes said:


> Yeah, it'll probably be about Lorgar and company, but... remember, don't get your hopes up too far. The idea may have been received well at a planning council, but that's no guarantee that it will get published.


That meeting was half a year ago. Right now, the cover's done, and I start writing the book next week. But sssshhhh.



Lord of the Night said:


> I also want to know what Konrad Curze's childhood was like.


_Soul Hunter_ has some of that, and so will the rest of the series. But I don't really want to do any Night Lords HH stuff. Nuh-uh.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

^ did you really join up just to write that? or are you just 'pretending' to be ADB?
if the meeting was 6 months ago, then the BL facebook group is a bit behind as they only posted your blog as 'new news' like 3-4 days ago. im still not sold its you ADB, anyone could sign up and post some crap 'pretending' to be a BL author. 

The Inquistion demands proof!

p.s. if it is you, i still think its about lorgar from the title alone.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Brother Subtle said:


> if the meeting was 6 months ago, then the BL facebook group is a bit behind as they only posted your blog as 'new news' like 3-4 days ago.


Kinda-sorta. I realised people were getting mixed up, so I added this in a more recent update:

_"The HH meeting I blogged about in my last post was, like, six months ago. As I said, there'll be another one in the next few months. Probably after BLL in Feb? I dunno, man, I just work here."_

That blog was just to show what the meetings were like, and set up the fact another one was coming along soon.

I did actually blog about the meeting more seriously way back when it happened, but that was ages ago. June the... somethingth. I want to say the 5th. Or the 15th. I think it had a 5. Whatever - I'm too lazy to check.




Brother Subtle said:


> p.s. if it is you, i still think its about lorgar from the title alone.


I can't say.

And while I'm usually an ass in my day-to-day life, I'm not trying to be a tool, here. I'm just really not allowed to say. I'll give you: _"The title's nice and obvious, I reckon"_, which is what I was saying at Games Day, but that's about it. 

I heard today that the cover art was done, so maybe in a month or so, that'll be on show. But I'm not a Marketing guy, so don't quote me on that.



Brother Subtle said:


> ^ did you really join up just to write that?


Hey, I like to talk.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

well damn, nice to meet ya ADB. my first conversation (well... internets type convo) with a BL author, im almost blushing... or is that my bodys reaction to the sausage and egg mcmuffin i just ate... hmm only time will tell. looking forward to your Night Lords series and your entry into the HH series. As long as its nothing like Battle for the Abyss im sure it'll rock some jocks. Good luck mate!



Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> I can't say.
> 
> And while I'm usually an ass in my day-to-day life, I'm not trying to be a tool, here. I'm just really not allowed to say. I'll give you: _"The title's nice and obvious, I reckon"_, which is what I was saying at Games Day, but that's about it.


hmmm i reckon with a title like that and a little knowledge of the Heresy most fans should be able to figure it out. 
i stand by my guess...


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## khornateemperor (Aug 31, 2009)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> I can't say.



So there will be lodges then?


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## RudeAwakening79 (Oct 20, 2008)

Interesting stuff here guys; Word bearers during the heresy, sounds great!

Hail to the dead.blue.clown!!


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

cover art up... and yep, i was right


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Haha that cover is beautiful, the Custodes and that possessed Word Bearer, I must get this during its first print run.

Looking forward to some Erebus and Kor Phaeron , perhaps even Eliphas when he was a mere champion.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> Haha that cover is beautiful, the Custodes and that possessed Word Bearer, I must get this during its first print run.
> 
> Looking forward to some Erebus and Kor Phaeron , perhaps even Eliphas when he was a mere champion.


Totally agree looks fantastic.

Although I highly doubt Eliphas will be in it. He basically has no backstory and is a computer-game character! I'd put money on some characters from the Word Bearers series making an appearance in the HH series again though (Kol Badar for example).

Although when do the Word Bearers fight the Custodes apart from at the Siege of Terra (which this book obviously isn't as there is another close planet/moons in the background), when will this book be set I wonder if it involves Custodes?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Some new (albeit brief) information regarding _The First Heretic_, it will involve a scene with 2 Primarchs and the Emperor. (As noted on ADB's blog)

(I know not a ground-breaking revelation, but interesting still!)


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

maybe its the scene where the bigE tells Lorgar off for taking too long to establish newly conquered worlds (and his worship of the emperor is not wanted), i wonder what other primarch would be there? Dorn? Gulliman?... yeah my moneys on Gulliman. itd be another reason why Lorgar hates the ultrasmurfs so much. Maybe Gulliman was smug during the conversation or he got stuck into Lorgar as well? (we all know Gulliman was a bit of a 'goody goody'). who knows?


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Brother Subtle said:


> maybe its the scene where the bigE tells Lorgar off for taking too long to establish newly conquered worlds (and his worship of the emperor is not wanted), i wonder what other primarch would be there? Dorn? Gulliman?... yeah my moneys on Gulliman. itd be another reason why Lorgar hates the ultrasmurfs so much. Maybe Gulliman was smug during the conversation or he got stuck into Lorgar as well? (we all know Gulliman was a bit of a 'goody goody'). who knows?


Wait? The Emperor warns Lorgar for erecting monuments to Him, indicating His 'God-like' Status, and exterminating entire planets if they do not worship Him as a God - And yet, if I remember correctly, this happens before even Horus becomes corrupted?:no: (Eerebus` slander in False Gods somewhat spills the beans)

If it involves the Emperor - in physical prescense, then im pretty sure Dorn will be there (Imperial Fists working on Terra`s defences no?)

And besides, Child, how did you even manage to get onto ADB`s blog anyway? Every time I try it says how he needs to 'undelete it':laugh:


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

bobss said:


> And besides, Child, how did you even manage to get onto ADB`s blog anyway? Every time I try it says how he needs to 'undelete it':laugh:


That one's yeeeeaaars old, and deleted. See sig.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> That one's yeeeeaaars old, and deleted. See sig.


Big thanks:victory:


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

bobss said:


> Wait? The Emperor warns Lorgar for erecting monuments to Him, indicating His 'God-like' Status, and exterminating entire planets if they do not worship Him as a God - And yet, if I remember correctly, this happens before even Horus becomes corrupted?:no: (Eerebus` slander in False Gods somewhat spills the beans)
> 
> If it involves the Emperor - in physical prescense, then im pretty sure Dorn will be there (Imperial Fists working on Terra`s defences no?)


Dorn wasnt back at Terra till after the events of Istvaan, remember he intercepted Garro on the way there and brang them back with him.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

I dont think Guilliman would have been there. Im guessing Horus, if he was Warmaster at the time then it would be his duty to punish Lorgar or mediate between him and the Emperor.

The First Heretic is definitely going to be great. Ive got three theories on its plot.

1. Its about the fall of the Word Bearers to Chaos.
2. Its about Chaplain Erebus falling to Chaos.
3. Its about the Red Angel. (The Possessed Blood Angel in HH Collected Visions.)


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> 1. Its about the fall of the Word Bearers to Chaos.


It's about the fall of the Word Bearers to Chaos.

...at least, some of them.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> Im guessing Horus, if he was Warmaster at the time then it would be his duty to punish Lorgar or mediate between him and the Emperor.


Lorgar's reprimand was Pre-Ullanor and thus Horus wouldn't have been Warmaster at that point.



Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> It's about the fall of the Word Bearers to Chaos.
> 
> ...at least, some of them.


Ooo  Im guessing then the second purge of the Brotherhood will be included :grin:


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> It's about the fall of the Word Bearers to Chaos.
> 
> ...at least, some of them.


Nice. From that im guessing its about the first few Word Bearers falling to Chaos, and not the legion as a whole.. yet.

Still would like to see something on The Red Angel though, he is quite the mystery.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Lorgar's reprimand was Pre-Ullanor and thus Horus wouldn't have been Warmaster at that point.
> 
> Ooo  Im guessing then the second purge of the Brotherhood will be included :grin:


Ah. Well my guess is that it was either Horus or Magnus there with the Emperor. Guilliman would have thrown some barbs in as would Dorn. Can't think why the other Primarchs would want to see it.

Then again maybe the scene with two Primarchs and the Emperor is not the reprimanding. Lorgar was found by the Emperor who brought Magnus and two Tactical squads of Thousand Sons with him. Thats the most likely part.

The second purge would be quite nice to see. Perhaps we'll see some of the Word Bearers when they were younger, like the Warmonger or Jarulek. Would be nice to see the Warmonger before he was entombed, his past sounded awesome. Especially with that Chaos skull-helmet .


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> Nice. From that im guessing its about the first few Word Bearers falling to Chaos, and not the legion as a whole.. yet.


Well technically speaking all of the Colchis-Born Word Bearers worshipped Chaos prior to being brought into the Imperium. So its only really the Terran marines that needed purging and didn't fall to Chaos I think, as spoke about in _Dark Creed_.



Lord of the Night said:


> Ah. Well my guess is that it was either Horus or Magnus there with the Emperor. Guilliman would have thrown some barbs in as would Dorn. Can't think why the other Primarchs would want to see it.
> 
> Then again maybe the scene with two Primarchs and the Emperor is not the reprimanding. Lorgar was found by the Emperor who brought Magnus and two Tactical squads of Thousand Sons with him. Thats the most likely part.


Indeed thats what I was thinking. Based on Lorgar's discovery by Magnus & the Emperor.



Lord of the Night said:


> The second purge would be quite nice to see. Perhaps we'll see some of the Word Bearers when they were younger, like the Warmonger or Jarulek. Would be nice to see the Warmonger before he was entombed, his past sounded awesome. Especially with that Chaos skull-helmet .


Aye that would be good.

& I presume that as ABD said its about the Word Bearers fall to Chaos, or at least some of them - we will be seeing the second purge of the brotherhood, I hope at least 

Also I've kind of bought into the theory that the Warmonger is actually Sor Talgron. It kind of fits considering Sor Talgron is known to have been leading the small contingent of Word Bearers in the Sol System around the time of the Heresy, and in _Dark Creed_ the Warmonger seems to imply that he had infiltrated the Imperial Palace prior to the Siege of Terra.


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## dark angel (Jun 11, 2008)

Seeing as the author is a member of Heresy, can we get a special section as a taster?:biggrin: But yeah, it sounds cool and what I have read of Mr.Bowden (Only Cadian Blood, and the short story that is in Heroes Of The Space Marine) he is fast becomming one of my favourite authors, I look forward to this among all of the other novels I am excited for this year/next.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

dark angel said:


> Seeing as the author is a member of Heresy, can we get a special section as a taster?:biggrin: But yeah, it sounds cool and what I have read of Mr.Bowden (Only Cadian Blood, and the short story that is in Heroes Of The Space Marine) he is fast becomming one of my favourite authors, I look forward to this among all of the other novels I am excited for this year/next.


He`s a member of _Heresy_. This Heresy?!


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

bobss said:


> He`s a member of _Heresy_. This Heresy?!


Yeah 

Dead.Blue.Clown is the man!



dark angel said:


> But yeah, it sounds cool and what I have read of Mr.Bowden (Only Cadian Blood, and the short story that is in Heroes Of The Space Marine) he is fast becomming one of my favourite authors, I look forward to this among all of the other novels I am excited for this year/next.


I agree, Im half way through _Soul Hunter_ at the mo, and quite simply I love it!

I have every confidence that _The First Heretic_ will also be awesome.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Yeah
> 
> Dead.Blue.Clown is the man!
> 
> ...


Oh. My. God! :laugh:

He actually talked to _me_ (albeit typed to me) on this thread!

*deep breaths*

Um... yes... anyway.... expulsion of fan-boyism` aside, Im somewhat perturbed by the Adeptus Custode upon the cover, I thought they never left Terra?:no:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

bobss said:


> Im somewhat perturbed by the Adeptus Custode upon the cover, I thought they never left Terra?:no:


Yes many contingents left Terra on many occasions.

Most if not all probably accompanied the Emperor as he fought throughout the galaxy prior to his return to Terra.

Aside from that a strong example is a contingent of Custodes under Valdor accompanied Russ to Prospero.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I agree, Im half way through _Soul Hunter_ at the mo, and quite simply I love it!
> 
> I have every confidence that _The First Heretic_ will also be awesome.


Its great isnt it?. Its my favourite BL book now.

Same here. The First Heretic's cover is one of the best ive ever seen, and the story will be as well.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> The First Heretic is definitely going to be great. Ive got three theories on its
> 3. Its about the Red Angel. (The Possessed Blood Angel in HH Collected Visions.)


ive got a bad feeling the red angel wont be mentioned in the book... well i hope its mentoned at some stage in the HH series, but along with Ingethel the ascended, i think these 2 members of the collected visions books might not make the final cut and just get glossed over. 



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Indeed thats what I was thinking. Based on Lorgar's discovery by Magnus & the Emperor.


i actually hope thats not the case, id much prefer the emperor brought with him another of his sons for Lorgars 'telling off session' someone who maybe got a little 'too invloved' in the whole process and made a new enemy of Lorgar... well i can hope. i want to see some more primarch to primarch conflict. Gulliman hasnt got a mention too much in the HH yet, id like to see him pop up! not that im a fan of Gulliman, i think hes a bit of a turd burgular.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

i know the cover of the novel looks like its gonna be about the word bearers and seeing as maybe erebus was perhaps the first heretic then its gonna be about them.

BUT

im really hoping it turns out to be about the unknown primarchs as the mention of the phrase 'personal tradegy' gets my ears pricking up about them as this was whats mentioned about them in the lightning tower chapbook.

maybe one made a small empire like guilleman and then got corrupted and started burning worlds and the other primarch who was closest to him went to try and help him and it all got nasty and then the emperor had to come and sort it out. maybe the emperor couldnt help in time and thats why they were lost and thats why he gets served by horus as he wanted to try and save horus and didnt want another primarch falling like them as he felt guilty but in the end had to obliterate horus in the same manner he had to maybe do to the unknowns.

its a pure wild guess but i thought id add something abit different to whats expected.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Unknown Primarch said:


> i know the cover of the novel looks like its gonna be about the word bearers and seeing as maybe erebus was perhaps the first heretic then its gonna be about them.
> 
> BUT
> 
> im really hoping it turns out to be about the unknown primarchs...


Trust me, it's not about them. In fact, it's likely nothing ever will be. They're never going to be revealed; it's too much of a major mystery in 40K lore.

_The First Heretic_ is definitely about the Word Bearers and their fall to Chaos.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

though they may not reveal them in the first heretic i think they are gearing up to revealing all about them. a little something is mentioned in a thousand sons about the last time 9 primarchs where together with the emperor and the emperor forbid them from speaking of it which implys its about the unknowns.
plus the fact that they can be used to point out some philosophy about how and why people can turn heretic then eventually i think some thing will be reveal at least about what happened to them even if they never reveal their names just to keep abit of the mystery alive.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Unknown Primarch said:


> though they may not reveal them in the first heretic i think they are gearing up to revealing all about them. a little something is mentioned in a thousand sons about the last time 9 primarchs where together with the emperor and the emperor forbid them from speaking of it which implys its about the unknowns.


There's a world of difference between repeated hints about the Unknown Legions (which is what HH authors like to do in several books), and gearing up to explain them (which will almost certainly never happen). 

_The First Heretic _does include a hint or three about them, too. But so did _False Gods_, _Mechanicum_, and _A Thousand Sons.._.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

and whats your reasoning for them not to be revealed? i dont see it as the biggest mystery of the heresy but still one of the biggest and revealing at least what happened to them wouldnt have such a massive effect on the story as say revealing the emperor had everything planned out how it occured.
if for instance they still were alive and banished somewhere than that would leave scores of future fans salavating at what might happen in the future if they came back to the 40k galaxy.
and if they are dead then their not losing anything telling us what happened as who will really be that bothered once the HH novels have finished as they werent involved and wont be returning and it would kind of like be known to people when people are interested the most.

anyway the first heretic 99.999999% wont be about them but we can still hope


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

You do know that you are talking to the author of _The First Heretic_ right?, he knows what its about.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Unknown Primarch said:


> and whats your reasoning for them not to be revealed?


Because the answers don't actually exist. At least not at the moment, and after 30ish years, it's unlikely to change. And added to that, it's a mystery that I think people like to preserve.

The Lost Legions aren't a secret that the founders of 40K keep to themselves. There _is_ no answer. They were designed to be an unanswered mystery.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

am i wrong in assuming they were designed that way so that homebrew chapters/legions would make more sense, and also have somewhere they could draw their origins from? Just a shot in the dark, but it would make sense.

CP


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Commissar Ploss said:


> am i wrong in assuming they were designed that way so that homebrew chapters/legions would make more sense, and also have somewhere they could draw their origins from? Just a shot in the dark, but it would make sense.
> 
> CP


yep, i remember reading somewhere that the 2 lost legions allow 40k unlimted customability when it comes to homebrew chapters etc. which means it'll never really get old (and unsellable) as people can keep inventing new ideas/chapters. whats funny is 99% of us hardercore 40k fans despise 40k SM chapters based off the lost legions. it just screams... i dont know. cliched gayness...


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

thank goodness theres another coming out, I was running out of paper to wipe my ass on, the heresy series is surprisingly absorbent, and a far better use than reading them.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Brother Subtle said:


> yep, i remember reading somewhere that the 2 lost legions allow 40k unlimted customability when it comes to homebrew chapters etc. which means it'll never really get old (and unsellable) as people can keep inventing new ideas/chapters. whats funny is 99% of us hardercore 40k fans despise 40k SM chapters based off the lost legions. it just screams... i dont know. cliched gayness...


S'weird, isn't it? Back in the day, it was The Way to customise your Marines. 25 years later, and it's the most unoriginal, lame thing you can do.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> S'weird, isn't it? Back in the day, it was The Way to customise your Marines. 25 years later, and it's the most unoriginal, lame thing you can do.


True- in 10 years I've only come across 1 interesting and, relatively, plausible Unknown Legion example- and that was made by a whole group of guys who each worked on a company of the Chapter/Legion whilst maintaining a cohesive background and colour scheme.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Of course the Unknown Legions; and so their Primarch`s were originally designed for players to create their own fluff on Second Founding Chapters, or the original Legions itself, with complementary heroes, famous deeds and, glory-bathed campaigns and victorious battles. But now, with this idea somewhat extinguished, I can`t see these Unknown Legions brought into the _Horus Heresy_ in any major way, without the problems it would create.

For example-
- Are these Legions loyal or disloyal?
- If they are loyal, then what have they being doing for the last 10,000 years?
- If they pledge allegience to Chaos or remain neutral (Night Lords & Soul Drinkers as examples) then where do they reside? did they fight over a world in the Eye of Terror? or hide within another warp storm such as the Maelstrom, or do they inhabit far-flung worlds?

Personally, I can`t see them ever being revealed due to the fluff problems and contradictions to other well-known fluff, as well as their impact upon the meager portion of hobbiests who revel in creating their own background. To this, I - quite simply - don`t want them to be revealed, as i`d rather they were just forgotten. Its like Chaos Dwarves in WFB - Normally im against GW erradicating fluff, but here im forced to agree.

Back to topic, im more interested in the limits of the Horus Heresy, basically, how long will the series go on for? Will it end with the finale to the Siege of Terror/Horus` defeat and the Emperor`s death. Or will it invole the turmoil within the Eye Of Terror, the business involving the Night Lords, and the Death Guard`s experience and ultimately fall to Nurgle?


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

Lord of the Night said:


> You do know that you are talking to the author of _The First Heretic_ right?, he knows what its about.


no, are you sure?



Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Because the answers don't actually exist. At least not at the moment, and after 30ish years, it's unlikely to change. And added to that, it's a mystery that I think people like to preserve.
> 
> The Lost Legions aren't a secret that the founders of 40K keep to themselves. There _is_ no answer. They were designed to be an unanswered mystery.


yeh i dont think they got it all planned out and are hiding it, it comes across as they making little bits up as they go along so things dont get muddled. but to me these little tidbits here and there have got to lead somewhere or whats the point. 
i often wonder how GW will actually make the lore pay off for all fans as eventually the emperor has to die or be reborn and the imperium as to die or change in someway. leaving these things untouched for another 25yrs would be boring and maybe lead to stagnation and lose of interest from the fans.
obviously the kids now wont be as effected but what about the adults that have been into from day one, what are they expecting from the lore of 40k or are they just happy for things to stay how they are.
this is where i get back to my first thoughts of having certain mysterys revealed (unknown primarchs) but then creating another to keep it interesting again i.e. revealing what happened to them but not giving all the answers like where they are and what their names were.
sounds like a episode of lost and maybe thats the way to go, by revealing stuff but creating a bigger mystery from the answers.
like i said before the unknowns arent the biggest mystery and maybe there is one that tops them all as there is a endless amount of lore to play with and create. 
the biggest one for me is did the emperor know that the heresy was gonna happen before it did. if he didnt then that leaves alot of questions about what was he up to anyway as he seemed to have certain plans in motion for stuff in his dungeon (see a thousand sons novel) and seeing as mere humans saw stuff of the heresy why wouldnt the emp have too.
but if he did then that opens up a whole other can of worms and the repercussions of that will make for more twists and turns for future fans of 40k.
so my point is even if they reveal stuff they can still create new mysterys for 40k to last another 25yrs and keep fans drawn to it but they gotta have some sort of payoff for current fans or to me it doesnt seem worth bothering with and i mean that in a nice way.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Unknown Primarch said:


> no, are you sure?


Yes, _Dead.Blue.Clown_ is Aaron Dembski-Bowden. (Spelt it right?!)




Unknown Primarch said:


> yeh i dont think they got it all planned out and are hiding it, it comes across as they making little bits up as they go along so things dont get muddled. but to me these little tidbits here and there have got to lead somewhere or whats the point.


There doesn't have to be a point. But I imagine its just an attempt to revive interest in the Lost Legions.



Unknown Primarch said:


> i often wonder how GW will actually make the lore pay off for all fans as eventually the emperor has to die or be reborn and the imperium as to die or change in someway. leaving these things untouched for another 25yrs would be boring and maybe lead to stagnation and lose of interest from the fans.
> obviously the kids now wont be as effected but what about the adults that have been into from day one, what are they expecting from the lore of 40k or are they just happy for things to stay how they are.
> this is where i get back to my first thoughts of having certain mysterys revealed (unknown primarchs) but then creating another to keep it interesting again i.e. revealing what happened to them but not giving all the answers like where they are and what their names were.
> sounds like a episode of lost and maybe thats the way to go, by revealing stuff but creating a bigger mystery from the answers.
> ...


The Heresy series can't reveal every single mystery regarding 30/40k which have been going since the games inception, it would ruin it. And also remember that Warhammer 40,000 is suppossed to be a Setting rather than a progressional storyline.

If anything, GW will go backwards, they have 10,000 years of relatively unexplored storyline to tamper with.



Unknown Primarch said:


> the biggest one for me is did the emperor know that the heresy was gonna happen before it did. if he didnt then that leaves alot of questions about what was he up to anyway as he seemed to have certain plans in motion for stuff in his dungeon (see a thousand sons novel) and seeing as mere humans saw stuff of the heresy why wouldnt the emp have too.


Well essentially we know what the Emperor planned for when he left the Crusade following Ullanor, the creation of the Imperial Webway (by tapping into the old Eldar network).

The only being Im aware of that saw the Heresy coming was Magnus (not including Xenos), and it is heavily implied he only knew about it because Tzeentch allowed him to know.

The good thing about 40k now is that a lot of the background is based on interpretation, We don't know what the Emperor was, what his ultimate goals were or how he planned to achieve said goals, we don't know if he planned the Heresy or even foresaw it (unlikely in my opinion).. Its these kind of mysteries which keep the 40k fanbase alive in a sense, if everything was just Black & White the game and the setting would have lasted no way near as long as it has.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Yes, _Dead.Blue.Clown_ is Aaron Dembski-Bowden. (Spelt it right?!)



nice, just bought soulhunter along with 1k sons. had a quick look at first page, looking forward to that book. liked the short story in heroes of SM.






Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> There doesn't have to be a point. But I imagine its just an attempt to revive interest in the Lost Legions.



cant see the point of reviving interest in something that they wont reveal really. everyone knows there was 2 missing legions and everyone wants to know about them. HH is the ideal setting to reveal them unless they come out of a warprift in 40k and save the day when the broken throne starts to pack up 





Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The Heresy series can't reveal every single mystery regarding 30/40k which have been going since the games inception, it would ruin it. And also remember that Warhammer 40,000 is suppossed to be a Setting rather than a progressional storyline.
> 
> If anything, GW will go backwards, they have 10,000 years of relatively unexplored storyline to tamper with.



yeh i understand not revealing everything but maybe some of the standard lore should be told and they create new mysteries. i really liked the short story in tales of heresy on that blackship. now that whole thing created a whole new set of questions for me. ive always thought a blackship novel would be one of the most intense stories to write. dead.blue.clown you think you could maybe get a story from that perspective of things? people keep telling me you write awesome books, maybe thats something for the future maybe?!





Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Well essentially we know what the Emperor planned for when he left the Crusade following Ullanor, the creation of the Imperial Webway (by tapping into the old Eldar network).
> 
> The only being Im aware of that saw the Heresy coming was Magnus (not including Xenos), and it is heavily implied he only knew about it because Tzeentch allowed him to know.
> 
> The good thing about 40k now is that a lot of the background is based on interpretation, We don't know what the Emperor was, what his ultimate goals were or how he planned to achieve said goals, we don't know if he planned the Heresy or even foresaw it (unlikely in my opinion).. Its these kind of mysteries which keep the 40k fanbase alive in a sense, if everything was just Black & White the game and the setting would have lasted no way near as long as it has.


1k sons spoiler alert!

yeh i know about the webway bit but like you said we dont know what he is as i keep seeing mentioned alot in 1k sons Him mentioned in terms basically saying he isnt a man, hell even tzeentch indicates this too (chaos god telling the truth for once?!) and i think its mentioned in soulhunter taelos saying he isnt a god but not a man either.
im sort of getting my references from 1k sons as im reading it at the minute and its saying that the throne room is full of tech thats taken a very long time to make or was found and cant be remade even by the emperor and the throne is a soulmachine as tzeentch puts it. this leads me to think that the emperor has been planning something using this stuff for a very long time but then its mentioned by the emperor himself that he has only just found the webway gate so whats all this tech for if not some sort of plan.
this is the kind of stuff im sort of getting at as by revealing what we already have heard for years about but then add some fresh stuff to make us think what the hell is going on here.
i dont want everything revealed but maybe some of the basics so we can think about things more put with at least some solid references to comfirmed GW fluff if you get what im saying.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Unknown Primarch said:


> cant see the point of reviving interest in something that they wont reveal really. everyone knows there was 2 missing legions and everyone wants to know about them. HH is the ideal setting to reveal them unless they come out of a warprift in 40k and save the day when the broken throne starts to pack up


Again, there doesn't have to be a point. The Lost Legions have been one of the most long-running and biggest Mysteries in the entire background, I mean its two full Astartes Legions, that would have been easily enough to tip the balance of the Heresy one way or another.

Everyone wants to know about them? I dont. Revealing the two Lost Legions in a plausable way would likely have drastic repercussions for not only the Heresy, but the background up until M41, and we know GW don't like drastic changes, and in most cases quite rightly. Its much better the way it is, little and few hints here and there as to their fate, and the rest left up to us to interpret and conjure up theories.



Unknown Primarch said:


> yeh i understand not revealing everything but maybe some of the standard lore should be told and they create new mysteries. i really liked the short story in tales of heresy on that blackship. now that whole thing created a whole new set of questions for me. ive always thought a blackship novel would be one of the most intense stories to write. dead.blue.clown you think you could maybe get a story from that perspective of things? people keep telling me you write awesome books, maybe thats something for the future maybe?!


Reveal some and create new mysteries? Hell of a lot easier said than done. And quite simply not plausable.


Unknown Primarch said:


> i dont want everything revealed but maybe some of the basics so we can think about things more put with at least some solid references to comfirmed GW fluff if you get what im saying.


Not really, we already have the basics.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

just because you dont wanna know doesnt mean it shouldnt be revealed. yeh it might be a long standing mystery but its the right time to reveal them. its like saying they shouldnt be releasing the HH novels as its all been a mystery what really happened and telling us indepth ruins the story we already know.
should they have not released info on the emperor and the void dragon then? that went down well with fans and opened up alot more questions to keep people interested and i dont think making more mysteries would be hard for the quality of writers GW has at the moment. hell if anything they could reveal all and still come up with new stuff thats how good they are. so its very plausable or havent you got faith in the writer to come up with new and interesting fluff?!

as for the unknowns, we dont even have the basics which to me would be the primarchs names, the legions names and maybe are they alive or dead or other. even if they didnt reveal what happened to them they should at least fix them with a name and name of legion then people can run wild with any other theories.
this whole thing with people making their own is crap and probably was meant to be what creating your own chapter for started from. things are more set in stone now with the fluff so it easy to start working them into the fluff and shaping their fluff to all the current official fluff and making things fit nicely.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

I can only hope with all my being that they don't reveal the lost Legions- I love the mystery and I really just don't see the point of revealing it. With the majority of the HH novels they just go into more depth about events that have already been known about for years. Revealing a 'myth' that has probably had less than a paragraph distributed regarding it in 30 years of a rich background- leave it.

One of the authors for BL library has said they have no intentions of ever providing concrete info and that suits me just fine :grin:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Unknown Primarch said:


> just because you dont wanna know doesnt mean it shouldnt be revealed. yeh it might be a long standing mystery but its the right time to reveal them.


My point is is that they can't really reveal them in a plausable way without screwing up the already screwed up background of the Heresy, and indeed the Imperium as a whole.

If they did reveal them (which they won't anyway because they obviously agree with me :grin I imagine theres a good chance you would regret your original opinion of wanting them to be revealed, because it would likely be in a completly lame and unbelieveable way - which would be no fault of the BL authors, just simply because revealing a mystery which has lasted decades and drawn so many wild and various theories over the years would be anti-climatic let us say. 



Unknown Primarch said:


> its like saying they shouldnt be releasing the HH novels as its all been a mystery what really happened and telling us indepth ruins the story we already know.


And I know many people who dislike the Heresy series and many who simply disagree with them starting the Heresy series in the first place.

The Heresy series is a monumental undertaking by GW/BL, it has already changed the background drastically and I doubt were even half way through it. But as the Baron said they have really only cemented and elaborated on previously existing background material.

I personally like the concept of the Heresy series, but if it simply revealed all the pre-existing mysteries surrounding the Horus Heresy/Great Crusade/Unification Wars I would think otherwise. 



Unknown Primarch said:


> as for the unknowns, we dont even have the basics which to me would be the primarchs names, the legions names and maybe are they alive or dead or other. even if they didnt reveal what happened to them they should at least fix them with a name and name of legion then people can run wild with any other theories.


How would knowing their names help in any way? It would just restrict the concept to which they were orginally created for, and that was to allow players to develop their own chapters based on the two Lost Legions. We have the basics in the sense that we know they were discovered by the Emperor and reunited with their legions, we know they were subsequently involved in some sort of tradegy and were struck from Imperial Records. That is all we need.



Unknown Primarch said:


> this whole thing with people making their own is crap and probably was meant to be what creating your own chapter for started from. things are more set in stone now with the fluff so it easy to start working them into the fluff and shaping their fluff to all the current official fluff and making things fit nicely.


But quite simply there is no need to.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

i think we are gonna have to agree is disagree on this subject then as its just gonna go back and forth with no end. im just hoping they reveal alot more than we know and can see fresh mystery being created even if they reveal certain things. peace.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

The Lost Legions have personally little impact on the gaming world... if any. I've said it over and over, that its been abused to make terrible fluff (not bashing anyone out there but its really really hard to create a whole chapter story that makes sense). If anything its made Black Library literature more interesting for sure. Though I understand people's stance over revealing the mysteries of the lost legions, I personally would like there to be more fluff in the books about the lost legions. Theres comes a point where putting the same information about the lost legions or putting none at all just becomes tiring. I almost don't care about the lost legions anymore, all I've been hearing is a lot of the characters saying they don't want to talk about it. 
Though I'm not bashing on you Child-of-the-Emperor, I respectivley don't really think the lost legions have the big of an impact as you say. All it pretty much is a creative... pause... part of the GW world, and a little fluff to talk about in forums. I don't think any of us or at least most of us have not bought any literature from black library just to see if there is anything about the lost legions. So I don't really think GW and Black Library really benefit from keeping them a secret. I do sometimes think of the lost legions when i hear a little fluff about them here and there, but I don't really think about them in gaming or literature in general. i just think that many people speculate the lost legions as being to mysterious a factor to which many Warhammer 40k fans base their conception on. Though it can be argued I would say the Horus Heresy in many ways was more mysterious and probably best kept under the covers to keep more people interested in Warhammer and also produce more creativity. Lastly, I don't think many people in the 40k community are THAT interested in the lost legions than perhaps space marine and chaos players/fans. Theres so many races out there souronded by mystery. 
But I guess its to early... cough 12 books already in the heresy to tell. Plus I do understand the frusteration of all you that enjoy the lost legions being kept under the covers.
But back on topic I really can't wait till this books comes out. I'm really interested in the purge of the Terrain within the first chaos legion. Though it kind of happened with the rest of the chaos legions, it would be interested to see it origins and how it happened. Plus, I would like to see more about Lorgar. Ive seen so many forums where he is the least liked primarch so it would be interesting to see him given a little more love for the 40k fans out there. At least in A Thousand Sons, I couldn't help but admire his personality during the end of the battle on Shrike. He appeared to very noble, and admiring person. It was very interesting how he was able to quell the tension that both Magnus and Russ had grasping each others throats. I can't help but think that was pretty much a miracle that Lorgar was able to quell the wrath of Russ.


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## polynike (Aug 23, 2008)

This HH series just gets better and better. Was abit disappointed with the audio book and I'm currently on Chpt 10 of TS. Looking forwards to the rest. FH seems to be a cracker especially if it delves in great detail into the Fall of Lorgar


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> Though I'm not bashing on you Child-of-the-Emperor, I respectivley don't really think the lost legions have the big of an impact as you say.


What I meant was that _if_ the Lost Legions were revealed, then they would have a massive impact on the background of the Heresy and the Imperium as a whole.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> What I meant was that _if_ the Lost Legions were revealed, then they would have a massive impact on the background of the Heresy and the Imperium as a whole.


He's right. It would change quite a lot but just because it would change a lot doesn't mean that it will change.

The Lost Legions and their Primarch are one of the 40k mysteries that will never be revealed, like Ephrael Stern and whether or not the Emperor really did barter with the Chaos Gods to create the Primarchs and the Imperium, there'll be hints at them but the truth will never be known.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Lord of the Night said:


> He's right. It would change quite a lot but just because it would change a lot doesn't mean that it will change.
> 
> The Lost Legions and their Primarch are one of the 40k mysteries that will never be revealed, like Ephrael Stern and whether or not the Emperor really did barter with the Chaos Gods to create the Primarchs and the Imperium, there'll be hints at them but the truth will never be known.


What about the _real_ reason behind Horus lowering the void-shields on his ship? I think that`ll be revealed:laugh:


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

bobss said:


> What about the _real_ reason behind Horus lowering the void-shields on his ship? I think that`ll be revealed:laugh:


Well that's already sort of revealed in HH: Collected Visions, with Horus lowering the shields despite the protestations of his advisors- Horus says it's to lure the Emperor aboard to finish it once and for all, hopefully in the novel we'll find if that was the reason behind his words or if he another motive.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> and whether or not the Emperor really did barter with the Chaos Gods to create the Primarchs and the Imperium, there'll be hints at them but the truth will never be known.


Actually, thats essentially been revealed.



bobss said:


> What about the _real_ reason behind Horus lowering the void-shields on his ship? I think that`ll be revealed:laugh:





Baron Spikey said:


> Well that's already sort of revealed in HH: Collected Visions, with Horus lowering the shields despite the protestations of his advisors- Horus says it's to lure the Emperor aboard to finish it once and for all, hopefully in the novel we'll find if that was the reason behind his words or if he another motive.


But despite the Collected Visions we have differing accounts from the codicies aswell.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Well that's already sort of revealed in HH: Collected Visions, with Horus lowering the shields despite the protestations of his advisors- Horus says it's to lure the Emperor aboard to finish it once and for all, hopefully in the novel we'll find if that was the reason behind his words or if he another motive.


the ultrasmurfs, dark emos and space pups were on the door of the system solar (coming to the rescue) so time was running low. unless this gets changed in the HH series isnt this the offical cannon?


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> ...despite the protestations of his advisors...


"protestations" isn't a word. lol :laugh: sounds like some sort of testicular discharge...

CP


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Brother Subtle said:


> the ultrasmurfs, dark emos and space pups were on the door of the system solar (coming to the rescue) so time was running low. unless this gets changed in the HH series isnt this the offical cannon?


Well currently we have at least 3 differing accounts as to why Horus lowered his shields, so thats not clear.



Commissar Ploss said:


> "protestations" isn't a word. lol :laugh: sounds like some sort of testicular discharge...
> 
> CP


It actually is a word - Link.

But testicular discharge..... nice :scare:


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> It actually is a word - Link.
> 
> But testicular discharge..... nice :scare:


i stand corrected! wow, still sounds like something you should have your doctor look at... :laugh:

CP


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Well currently we have at least 3 differing accounts as to why Horus lowered his shields, so thats not clear.


what are the other 2? 

1. Horus lowered his shields to get the Emperor to teleport up to his ship to finish the seige quickly before the backup arrived.

2. ?

3. Horus was secretly retarded?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Instead of pressing the 'Dispense Coffee' button he slipped and pressed the 'Lower Shields' one.

"My bad guys!"


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Brother Subtle said:


> what are the other 2?
> 
> 1. Horus lowered his shields to get the Emperor to teleport up to his ship to finish the seige quickly before the backup arrived.
> 
> ...


1. Horus had to gamble everything on a final duel with the Emperor (due to Imperial Reinforcements en route)

2. He wished to better witness the destruction of the Imperium and death of his father.

3. He felt some last pang of regret and actually wanted the Emperor to kill him for what he had done.

4. It is unknown why he lowered the shields.

5. The Baron's Coffee machine/Void Shields Button mixup.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> 5. The Baron's Coffee machine/Void Shields Button mixup.


i think this one has to be a winner! interstellar heresy and human armageddon undone by cup of hot joe. i wonder how Horus takes his coffee? black without sugar? i bet he says that to all the other primarchs, but alone with Erebus in his sanctium i bet they like a hot chocloate with marshmallows and a timtam.

"More milk in mine Erebus please, i dont want it to burn my tounge"


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Skimmed milk, that full fat stuff goes straight to his hips.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

just like all those biscuits he has with them!


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## Serrated Man (Mar 3, 2010)

Just saw this on Aaron Dembski-Bowden's blog and thought it was interesting. Its the chapter titles of the first six chapters in _First Heretic_. Pretty vague stuff but should fuel the speculation. :grin:

-----
The Perfect City / False Angels / Day of Judgement
Serrated Sun / Devastation / Aurelian
Blood Demands Blood / Sigillite / The Master of Mankind
A Legion Kneels / If Ultramar Burns / Grey
Voice of the Emperor / New Eyes / The Soul’s Fuel
The Old Ways / Never Human / End this World
-----
oh, his blog is http://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/ which is pretty entertaining overall, in my opinion.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Yeah, i've got to get the number for Brett Duckley. sounds like a wonderful agent. Although i'm a little worried when it comes to the Heresy-Online shou out that i read in that post. I'll have to address that in a new post. 

CP


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## Rome (Jul 6, 2010)

in reference to the 2 unknown primarchs and why they shall never be revealed is that the HH is essentially storys that explain a history that has already come to pass in the 40k universe an because it has already come 2 pass it is history and it is impossible for a society to record accurate events that will last through out the rest of time as such records get lost misplaced destroyed whatever an eventually those things fade out of memory an knowledge until all that is left it legends,rumours,hints an hearsay so i say the reason the identity of those 2 primarchs an their legions shall never be unveiled is because it would practically destroy the storyline already in-place an they would pritty much have 2 start again from scratch trying to rebuild it. All to reveal the identity of things that should remain unknown to proctect the story an to make it seem even more realistic.

Rome

p.s. i know i'm a lil late 2 make that point but i just joined an i felt it was a good point to make for my first post because i feel very strongly about this issue and as intrestin as it would be 2 kno those identitys it just wouldnt fit an would probably crappy up a brilliant storyline that i love :victory:


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Rome said:


> in reference to the 2 unknown primarchs and why they shall never be revealed is that the HH is essentially storys that explain a history that has already come to pass in the 40k universe an because it has already come 2 pass it is history and it is impossible for a society to record accurate events that will last through out the rest of time as such records get lost misplaced destroyed whatever an eventually those things fade out of memory an knowledge until all that is left it legends,rumours,hints an hearsay so i say the reason the identity of those 2 primarchs an their legions shall never be unveiled is because it would practically destroy the storyline already in-place an they would pritty much have 2 start again from scratch trying to rebuild it. All to reveal the identity of things that should remain unknown to proctect the story an to make it seem even more realistic.
> 
> Rome
> 
> p.s. i know i'm a lil late 2 make that point but i just joined an i felt it was a good point to make for my first post because i feel very strongly about this issue and as intrestin as it would be 2 kno those identitys it just wouldnt fit an would probably crappy up a brilliant storyline that i love :victory:


first post or not, your addition to the discussion is quite welcome. 

CP


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

yup seeing as Lorgar was so devout to the emperor would be gret to see what tipped him over although i know that being comapred to gulliman ws part of it and possibly why they attacked ultramar. 
but i would also like to see the lesser legions, especially the Night Lords and World eaters too i mean we all know Angron was a boiling volcano anyway but what happened ot him to make him go completly to Khorne, i know he did not forgive tthe Emperor or trust him feeling he had made a coward of him by deserting his brothers and sisters when they really needed him. 
but i would like to see how Corax fares with trying to rebuild his leigon, the same with the Iron Hands and Salamanders and i would love to see how the Iron Warriors fell from grace.
lets hope there is is more to come but this HH book sounds great


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

First off can’t wait for The First Heretic

Secondly I’m in two minds regarding revealing the histories of the two lost legions. On one hand the current take works on some level I suppose, however I’m generally of the opinion that mysteries are there to be solved. New ones can always be created. 

A number of comments have been made in this post about the fact that if they did it, it would cause major problems with the current lore, changing 40k history, bring total upheaval to what already been written, etc, etc. There have also been comments on the quality of background reveled i.e., the story would be lame, rubbish, not up to expectations, etc. 

I don’t see why either of these opinions have to hold true. I’m sure it’s not beyond the wit of a great author to conjure a story that is not only a fantastic read but something that also does not cause great upheaval with what has already been written. Even if their stories did affect current lore they could be used to greatly enhance the 40k setting as opposed to taking away from it. They could (for example) be used as a springboard for a new race, fifth chaos god, another type of god entirely, an unexplored area of space with unexpected and new things going one. There are many interesting possibilities, none of which necessarily have to effect the current setting in a negative way. I have no doubt that it would not be everybody’s cut of tea. But NOTHING ever is. 

There is also the possibility that there being two legions, each with _separate tragedies_, that they could do a story on one and reveal their history while leaving the other completely alone to continue a mystery. I don’t see why they have to be intertwined. There is much more I could say on the topic but I know everybody has been over this before.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

way i was told was that these two mystery leiogns missing primarchs gives scope for the amateur writer to create thier own leigon for games adn what have you but it never become law...just stay in homebrew as it were they are never meant to be explored they are just for the fans imaginations


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

Agreed, somethings are best just left to the imagination! plus if somebody did write about them, i think we'd all be slightly disappointed in the end anyway.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

besides i think if we were ever meant to know who and what they were it would have been long revealed by now.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

I dunno, whatever happens, happens in the end right?


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