# do we really need mephiston?



## lord petrus sanguinus (May 24, 2012)

I'm making some different army builds for a 2000, 2500 points,
looks like throwing 250 points in a single character that can,t join any unit, and can only buff himself, a bit difficult, moreover when we have such candys to include such as storm ravens, aegis , and points that can go elsewhere,l

having a librarian on terminator armor as primary cg, makes me difficult to include meph, unless i am willing to play a 3000 pts+ game, because, i feel i have other needs to fulfill tactically,

i rather prefer to extend my asault terminator army from 5 men to 9men + a sangui priest on term armor that to add a single unit( or add a terminator tactical squad with assault cannon and chainfists,

i find even easier to add a second librarian,and have still points left 
what you think?
in wich situations we could think about including meph? and in which are auto include?


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Mephiston is not for everyone. He is actually very impressive in combat and few would dare to challenge him other than to slow his onslaught to the whole squad. But he does require certain tactics to keep him alive until combat, such as "bubble-wrapping." You can also switch his powers now, if you so choose but that's a grab-bag game. Most Blood Angel players will say Mephiston is necessary for larger games, but he can work in smaller ones too. If you prefer a different Librarian, however, it is your choice.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Archon Dan said:


> Mephiston is not for everyone. He is actually very impressive in combat and few would dare to challenge him other than to slow his onslaught to the whole squad.


just kidding, ap3. :sarcastichand:

Its all about tycho now.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Then simply don't put him anywhere near Terminators/Characters? 2+ (especially scoring 2+) is not common enough.


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

Ravner298 said:


> just kidding, ap3. :sarcastichand:
> 
> Its all about tycho now.


I don't know why people say that AP3 is bad. I mean only about 90% of the unit types in the game have a 3+ or worse armor save.


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

Vaz said:


> Then simply don't put him anywhere near Terminators/Characters? 2+ (especially scoring 2+) is not common enough.


This. Mephiston has barely changed with the new edition of the rules. He's still S10, he still has a godly charge range (and is one of the only models i can think of that can move 12" and still re-roll assault distance), his shooting can actually wreck tanks and the like now, and he still murders anything with a 3+ save or lower.

Use him like you always should have been - wrecking troop squads, wrecking smaller squads, wrecking dreadnoughts, wrecking MC's


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Da Joka said:


> I don't know why people say that AP3 is bad. I mean only about 90% of the unit types in the game have a 3+ or worse armor save.


My comment was said in jest, meph is still scary. The ap change doesnt really change the type of things i'd throw at him in cc anyway, it just makes his retaliation less frightening.


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## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

Dude, he got *better* because of AP3 power swords. He has a 2+ save! That fixed one of his biggest weaknesses, which was no invulnerable. Now he can wade into combat against most squads with PWs and either cut them down by striking first, or get his 2+ versus swords. 

With Wings he's considered Jump all turn, so he can re-roll his charge distance now, and he gets an I10 Hammer of Wrath attack.

Just keep him away from 2+ and he'll slaughter everything on the board.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Don't forget his Preferred Enemy - Reroll to hit and wound with rolls of 1? With WS7 and S6, he's typically hitting on 3's and wounding on 2's anyway.


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

Ravner298 said:


> My comment was said in jest, meph is still scary. The ap change doesnt really change the type of things i'd throw at him in cc anyway, it just makes his retaliation less frightening.


:headbutt: Internet sarcasm my only weakness


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Plus FNP, while a worse roll (5+ over 4+) now applies to almost everything.

The ONLY thing he has to fear are Force Weapons, and even then most Force Weapons are AP3 or worse. There's nothing on earth strong enough to inflict ID just by S vs T, and now he can go back to laughing off Perils, Meltaguns and railgun slugs to the face. 

Just keep him away from the damned GKs, and Slaaneshi chaos lords.

Mephy is a monster. And thanks to the challenge rules, his Gaze might actually come into play now and then.

He's expensive but he still has a place


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Even cersus GK he should be good - they have no ap2 cc weapons at the minute. Of course, 839275 rending s7 assault cannons cannot help.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Even cersus GK he should be good - they have no ap2 cc weapons at the minute. Of course, 839275 rending s7 assault cannons cannot help.


Daemon Hammers? or are they unusual force weapons?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Unusual Force Weapons currently, unless it has since been changed. He still has to be slightly wary of characters like Lelith. No ignoring armour saves is a good thing, she has 7 attacks basic, 8 on the charg. Admittedly, wounding on 6s but she can get enough of those with 7 a turn.

Then again he needs to cause only one unsaved wound and she is instagibbed, and if he challenges she cant ping wounds off him. Then again, you are also hoping he survives the 4728573 lance shots.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

ICs will be cautious of his Gaze too though.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

plasma? :victory:

even if he uses wings IIRC he doesnt gain HofW attack if he moved 12" in the movement phase...not that it matters, he has an AP3 force weapon & 2+ save.

Space Wolves i expect to see him having troubles with (GH squad with a Termie Wolf Guard "sarg" either walking or DPing.

Guard will start spamming even more plasma...

MeQ armies im not sure, some can go "F*ck you" with him (Death Wing) while others not as well by not being able to spam enough plasma (since it got so much better) like...C:SM.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

plasma works, but only with volume. Wound on 3+, he;s got a 5+ to ignore it and a ton of wounds


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Eldar d-weaponry would do it. Instant death on a six (lol - if I use enough wraithguard)....Now all I have to do is somehow stop him tearing my face off first and using it as a hat....


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## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

Galahad said:


> plasma works, but only with volume. Wound on 3+, he;s got a 5+ to ignore it and a ton of wounds


Mephiston doesn't have an invun or fnp so he doesn't have a 5+ anything.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Run a terminator apothecary within 6" and back him up with hammernators. That way he does.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Captain Stillios said:


> Mephiston doesn't have an invun or fnp so he doesn't have a 5+ anything.


What the fuck? <checks>
Oh, goddammit, I forgot they took away his bloody FNP
Had it for fucking years...
<shakes head> Chalk it up to veteran syndrome, forgetting what rules are still good.

Points for catching me out on that. 

you're still going to need a lot of plasma shots though if he;s at full wounds.


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## akahdrin (Jul 12, 2012)

Power weapons didn't exactly bother him much due to being higher toughness. Needing 6s to wound isn't a huge threat for him.


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

akahdrin said:


> Power weapons didn't exactly bother him much due to being higher toughness. Needing 6s to wound isn't a huge threat for him.


It's not so much the S4/5 power weapons that were a problem, but the S6/7+ ones


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