# The Mark of Calth is up for Preorder (Horus Heresy)



## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/mark-of-calth-hardback.html

Just nabbed ebook preorder.

Edit: Huh, this suprises me: Mark of Calth (Enhanced eBook) Available to download from 26/04/2013 
Just a week to go then for more HH goodness!


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Damn, a week to finish Feast for Crows and Dance of Dragons 1 and 2. And another week putting back Peter Brett's trilogy, and Clive Barker's Abarat series, and van Horstmann. Barely got a chance to read while I was away, and now I'm trying to catch up, I keep getting ever more books. Jaysus.


----------



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Decided to order my copy a little ahead of schedule after seeing this on the main page.

_"I want the last sight of every Word Bearer to be an Ultramarine."_

Epic. Looking forward to returning to Calth and the XIIIth Legion.


LotN


----------



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

I know it's probably been listed elsewhere but I can't see it. Does anyone know anything about the stories contained in this book?


----------



## Apfeljunge (May 1, 2011)

There is a three part review here: http://thebitterstar.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/the-mark-of-calth-a-review/


----------



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

^ thanks

Rev


----------



## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

Just bought it and and done with my first reading. This is really not worth $15.99. I would suggest people to wait for the paperback version or for the price to drop.

Calth that Was was horrible, easily the worst part of the Anthology. The rest of the anthology ranged from mediocre to excellent. Deeper into Darkness was my favorite of the anthology, if only for the horror factor.

I'll probably post a more extensive review when I do a second reading.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Reading the ebook on my iPad, and not really impressed this far... 

_Shards of Erebus_ was meh and in _Calth that Was_ is McNeil doing his usual magic. (ie, ruining characters that Abnett perfected in *KNF*.)


----------



## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Ah, thanks for the reminder. Had completely forgotten about it.

Just installed it on my kindle.


----------



## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Finished Mark of Calth. I found it had a selection of enjoyable stories that really evoked the grim bleakness of the war and a few bores, so overall it was worth the purchase.


----------



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

^ that's some swift reading right there!


----------



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

I'll be starting it today. Expect a two-part review on TFF once i'm done, with a ranking for each short story and an overall rank.


LotN


----------



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

3/8 stories through it so far. In-depth thoughts i'll save for the review.

_Shards of Erebus_: I echo Doelago's thoughts. Meh. Not bad. Not good. Just meh. Though the lore additions/explanations were interesting to me, to someone who isn't as interested in such minor details, it wouldn't matter at all.

_Calth That Was_: Enjoyed it. Maloq Kartho was a great character and Hol Beloth was good but Remus Ventanus felt very wooden, as did most of the Ultramarines. The battles, especially in the temple, were very nicely done, but some more explanation as to the engineer would have been appreciated, specifically why him.

_Dark Heart_: Enjoyed it. Seeing Marduk as a young student was quite cool and I liked his method of advancing the rank, and the callbacks to the Dark Word trilogy were something I particularly enjoyed as I still consider that one of my favourite BL series.


LotN


----------



## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

TheReverend said:


> ^ that's some swift reading right there!


I try. At least some of the stories are not too complicated. Others are easy to form an opinion on after reading a few pages. _Calth that Was _starts off with two hundred Ultramarines easily killing six hundred Word Bearers in an ambush without a single dead Ultramarine killed in return.

Yes, not a single dead Ultramarine in that battle. I dismissed McNeill's novella as crap at that moment, but I forced myself to keep on reading. At least the other short stories were better, although I'm really getting tired of this Perpetual storyline, something I feel is badly done and really weighing down the Heresy books.


----------



## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Gree said:


> I try. At least some of the stories are not too complicated. Others are easy to form an opinion on after reading a few pages. _Calth that Was _starts off with two hundred Ultramarines easily killing six hundred Word Bearers in an ambush without a single dead Ultramarine killed in return.
> 
> Yes, not a single dead Ultramarine in that battle. I dismissed McNeill's novella as crap at that moment, but I forced myself to keep on reading. At least the other short stories were better, although I'm really getting tired of this Perpetual storyline, something I feel is badly done and really weighing down the Heresy books.


In the case of that ambush, it was a slaughter. The Ultras noticed that the Word Bearers was practially unarmed. Hence the high kill tally.


----------



## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

This seems to be my general reaction to these threads at the moment.

1. Read thread about new HH book. 
2. Read lots of complaints and nagging.
3. Actually read book and don't mind it.
4. Swear ill never read another of these threads again.
5. Read thread about new HH book...


----------



## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Brother Subtle said:


> This seems to be my general reaction to these threads at the moment.
> 
> 1. Read thread about new HH book.
> 2. Read lots of complaints and nagging.
> ...


I know the feeling. I know no book is perfect, but I try to enjoy them still and take them as part of the ongoing narrative and not let poor writting/editing drag it down. But I found this one enjoyable as it followed up on so many hanging plot theads from Know No Fear, as well the tie to the 40k word bearer and ultramarine series. 

And I really wish they implemented the Perpetual plot better, seems far too much of an afterthought for whats implied to have such a crucial importance on the final encounter on the Vengeful Spirit.


----------



## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

Brother Lucian said:


> In the case of that ambush, it was a slaughter. The Ultras noticed that the Word Bearers was practially unarmed. Hence the high kill tally.


It still doesn't make the writing any less bad in my eyes, or the story itself any less worse.


----------



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Gree said:


> I try. At least some of the stories are not too complicated. Others are easy to form an opinion on after reading a few pages. _Calth that Was _starts off with two hundred Ultramarines easily killing six hundred Word Bearers in an ambush without a single dead Ultramarine killed in return.


A disciplined force with ammunition to spare, the higher ground with plenty of cover and overlooking an open area with little cover, ambushes a shell-shocked force with broken down armour and actually not enough ammo for their guns. And they did not kill all of them, i'd say at most they killed a third of those warriors and the rest fled into the structures. Whereupon the Ultramarines levelled them with the orbital guns. Not a stupid scene, just a well-thought out theoretical that paid off as a well-executed practical.


Edit: Also brief note. _A Deeper Darkness_ by Rob Sanders = BEST BL SHORT STORY EVER!


LotN


----------



## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> A disciplined force with ammunition to spare, the higher ground with plenty of cover and overlooking an open area with little cover, ambushes a shell-shocked force with broken down armour and actually not enough ammo for their guns. And they did not kill all of them, i'd say at most they killed a third of those warriors and the rest fled into the structures. Whereupon the Ultramarines levelled them with the orbital guns. Not a stupid scene, just a well-thought out theoretical that paid off as a well-executed practical.


And not a single Ultramarine killed in return. The Word Bearers are still _Astartes_, no matter what condition they were in. But at the end of the day it's six hundred dead Word Bearers for not a single dead Ultramarine. The Ultramarines routing them with such ease was nothing more than terrible writing and quite possibly one of the worst Astartes vs Astartes scenes in all of Black Library.

Honestly it reminds me of some of the more poorly written scenes from Chapter's Due, with McNeill's Ventris and him taking on the berserkers. Then again Venatus was a Ventris expy, which is probably why he was such a terrible character.

Really, Calth that Was was a terrible novella all around, with flat villians, Ultramarines that really did not read like Ultramarines and some of the more ridiculous cliched action scenes that really don't belong in a published novel.


----------



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Gree said:


> And not a single Ultramarine killed in return. The Word Bearers are still _Astartes_, no matter what condition they were in. But at the end of the day it's six hundred dead Word Bearers for not a single dead Ultramarine. The Ultramarines routing them with such ease was nothing more than terrible writing and quite possibly one of the worst Astartes vs Astartes scenes in all of Black Library.


That is solely down to the choice of terrain and that the Word Bearers couldn't fight at range at the time. The Ultramarines had the high ground with good cover meaning the Word Bearers rushing them would be suicide, they would just be mowed down while trying to climb up at their positions. And since they lacked the ammunition to fight at range they had to retreat, and without much cover that resulted in a lot of deaths. Then the orbital guns dealt with the rest quickly. By that point the Ultramarines are going to win any fight on the surface, but it was solely due to the fact that the Word Bearers had little to no ammunition left that prevented any Ultramarine casualties.



Gree said:


> Really, Calth that Was was a terrible novella all around, with flat villians, Ultramarines that really did not read like Ultramarines and some of the more ridiculous cliched action scenes that really don't belong in a published novel.


I won't disagree on the Ultramarines, they felt wooden to me as well. But I liked Maloq Kartho, he felt like a real Chaos Space Marine in mentality as well as appearance, and Hol Beloth felt like the kind of self-serving weasel that could only rise up in the Word Bearers Legion. And aside from the opening scene which I can understand why some people wouldn't care for, the rest of the action scenes felt quite good, especially the scene in the temple with Foedrall Fell.


LotN


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

My opinions on the anthology...

The Shards of Erebus - Meh 

Calth that Was - Steaming pile of shit. Seriously, gtfo 

Dark Heart - Guess it was OK. Nothing spectacular though. 

The Traveller - Meh 

A Deeper Darkness - Guess it was sort of OK, at least when compared to a lot of the other crap in the book. 

The Underworld War - Good. Very good. 

Athame - Quite good

Unmarked - Fucking amazing. Read it, and once I was finished I read it again. 


Really, one of the worse Heresy books imo. Was it not for the three last stories I might have dropped it into the bottom five. ADB, French and Abnett saved the whole thing from being an utter pile of shit.

And yes, I also thought that 600 Word Bearers getting butchered without killing a single Ultramarine was fucking retarded, tactical genius or not. Fuck the orbital guns as well.


----------



## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> That is solely down to the choice of terrain and that the Word Bearers couldn't fight at range at the time. The Ultramarines had the high ground with good cover meaning the Word Bearers rushing them would be suicide, they would just be mowed down while trying to climb up at their positions. And since they lacked the ammunition to fight at range they had to retreat, and without much cover that resulted in a lot of deaths. Then the orbital guns dealt with the rest quickly. By that point the Ultramarines are going to win any fight on the surface, but it was solely due to the fact that the Word Bearers had little to no ammunition left that prevented any Ultramarine casualties.


Again, they're _still Astartes_ with all that implies, current condition or not.Executing a well-planned ambush to gain a great victory is perfectly plausible, but slaughtering six hundred Word Bearers without taking a _single loss_ strains belief. You could have replaced the Word Bearers with Star Wars Stormtroopers and gotten the same result for all the competency and accuracy displayed, although the Stormtroopers would have probably retreated in better order.

It really is just a poorly written action scene. I would have accepted minimal losses on the part of the Ultramarines, but the Word Bearers were shat on too much. I really had to facepalm at the part were Venatus get's a killshot with every round he fires later in the book.

I mean, it's fine if you like the novella, but don't try and convince me that was a good novella. You really won't get me to like it at all.



Lord of the Night said:


> I won't disagree on the Ultramarines, they felt wooden to me as well. But I liked Maloq Kartho, he felt like a real Chaos Space Marine in mentality as well as appearance, and Hol Beloth felt like the kind of self-serving weasel that could only rise up in the Word Bearers Legion. And aside from the opening scene which I can understand why some people wouldn't care for, the rest of the action scenes felt quite good, especially the scene in the temple with Foedrall Fell.


Maloq Kartho was one of the most transparent villains I've seen McNeill write and Hol Beloth retains none of his menace from his all too brief appearance in Know No Fear. Kartho also has bonus points against him from being from McNeill's terrible Ultramarine novels as well. Both are fairly predictable villians in an unremarkable relationship.

Dembski-Bowden and Rob Sanders inject far more character into the villains they put out.


----------



## bobss (May 18, 2008)

What was Abnett's short about, Doe?


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

bobss said:


> What was Abnett's short about, Doe?




About what was going on for Oll "Pious" Persson & gang after Calth


----------



## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Ah, I see. Cheers.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

I only wish it was longer. They should have ditched/cut the page length of _Calth that Was_ and instead have Abnett write a hundred extra pages.


----------



## bobss (May 18, 2008)

_Calth That Was_ feels like classic McNeill Ultramarines, honestly. Granted, I shouldn't judge based on second-hand accounts, but I'm hardly compelled to purchase the anthology by this.

That being said, solid stories which present something new and worthwhile from the likes of Abnett, ADB and Sanders (who is going from strength to strength in my eyes) is enough to balance it out.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

I read a few reviews a week or two ago, and most seemed to agree that _Calth That Was_ was well below-par. I'll wait until I read it myself, but it seems that Mcneill really has contributed some utter shite to the latter half of the series. He hasn't done a good book since _A Thousand Sons_ in my opinion. 

Most seem to agree that a few good shorts balanced it out though.

Anyway, what do I know, I haven't read it yet. Mind you, still haven't finished _Angel Exterminatus_. :read:


----------



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Gree said:


> Again, they're _still Astartes_ with all that implies, current condition or not. Executing a well-planned ambush to gain a great victory is perfectly plausible, but slaughtering six hundred Word Bearers without taking a _single loss_ strains belief. You could have replaced the Word Bearers with Star Wars Stormtroopers and gotten the same result for all the competency and accuracy displayed, although the Stormtroopers would have probably retreated in better order.


But that's it though, they did not slaughter them all. At most they gunned down a hundred to two-hundred of them. The rest were killed by the orbital guns when they ran, and a lot of the traitors that the Ultramarines killed were killed when they were retreating across open ground with no cover. I just think that the battle conditions were explained and those details are the key things that made the victory possible.



Gree said:


> I really had to facepalm at the part were Venatus get's a killshot with every round he fires later in the book.


Well he is a Captain, so it's not implausible that he's a really good shot.



Gree said:


> I mean, it's fine if you like the novella, but don't try and convince me that was a good novella. You really won't get me to like it at all.


Not trying to, just saying what I think. I enjoy a good debate, but I didn't expect to change your mind about it.



Gree said:


> Maloq Kartho was one of the most transparent villains I've seen McNeill write and Hol Beloth retains none of his menace from his all too brief appearance in Know No Fear. Kartho also has bonus points against him from being from McNeill's terrible Ultramarine novels as well. Both are fairly predictable villians in an unremarkable relationship.


I don't know what Hol Beloth you were reading in KNF because I read him totally differently. To me he seemed like the Commander whose high on himself, the guy whose so ambitious that he doesn't realise that he isn't really that good and that costs him everything when he overestimates himself and underestimates the enemy. As to Maloq Kartho I liked how he was willing to sacrifice his own brothers just for his own ascension, that is a step forward towards the Chaos Space Marines that we are all familiar with, the guys who'll screw each other over in a heartbeat to get what they want, Kartho is probably the first one to really do that.


Finished Mark of Calth, my review is on TFF. Some quick thoughts;

_The Shards of Erebus_ - Not good or bad, just eh. No real point to it besides the origin of the Athames in KNF, at least most of them.

_Calth that Was_ - I enjoyed the story and the Word Bearer villains, but the Ultramarines were wooden, except for Captain Sydance, and they just felt like placeholders to me. The human characters were too brief to form an opinion.

_Dark Heart_ - I've read the Dark Word trilogy so quite enjoyed this one, was cool seeing Marduk again and knowing that he's always been an ambitious whoreson.

_The Traveller_ - Very good, Annandale's best short yet. Loved the whispers being injected into the text and the end twist, quite chilling that something like that can exist.

_A Deeper Darkness_ - Best story in the anthology, Sanders really nailed the terror and fear aspects of the story and it felt like a real Warhammer horror story.

_The Underworld War_ - Really good, ADB makes yet another great one. Liked the glimpse of RuthlessLorgar and the reason behind which Word Bearers went to Calth.

_Athame_ - An odd one. Only interesting because of the lore behind it, though a 40k story like that where history lore is not important would perhaps be a better choice. That said the lore connotations this gives are tremendous.

_Unmarked_ - Quite good, loved the history connections and the scene with the monkeys was unsettling to say the least. But the real winner is the lore that this story hints at, what the hell is Persson's mission and why is the Athame so important?? My theory,




I think it's the weapon that will annihilate Horus's soul. Think about it, a lesser Athame killed M'kar and he was a Daemon Prince, imagine what an Athame that is older than Chaos could accomplish.




LotN


----------



## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> I think it's the weapon that will annihilate Horus's soul. Think about it, a lesser Athame killed M'kar and he was a Daemon Prince, imagine what an Athame that is older than Chaos could accomplish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


IIRC the Emperor destroyed Horus's soul once he let go of his restraint.


----------



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> IIRC the Emperor destroyed Horus's soul once he let go of his restraint.


He was able to fight Horus after he stopped restraining, he destroyed Horus's soul once Horus was beaten and he realised that the Gods would just bring him back to finish the job. But how did he do it? Perhaps psychic power, or perhaps he had _something else_ that could do it.


LotN


----------



## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

I cant help but think that the ancient athame is the failsafe of the Dark Gods, a plot aeons in the making to ensure that Horus Lupercall WILL loose to his father, even as he beats him to near death.


----------



## Gree (Jun 13, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> But that's it though, they did not slaughter them all. At most they gunned down a hundred to two-hundred of them. The rest were killed by the orbital guns when they ran, and a lot of the traitors that the Ultramarines killed were killed when they were retreating across open ground with no cover. I just think that the battle conditions were explained and those details are the key things that made the victory possible.


They gunned down dozens of Astartes with ease while the Word Bearers were unable to kill even a single Astartes. I don't believe I've ever seen such a utterly one-sided fight in Blac Library with Astartes before. Even at Istvaan the Raven Guard and Salamanders managed to kill a few traitors. It's ridiculous, poorly written and not to mention boring. I felt like I was reading Vader's stromtroopers rather than Lorgar's Word Bearers.



Lord of the Night said:


> Well he is a Captain, so it's not implausible that he's a really good shot.


A killshot with every shot against Astartes? Again I've seen better written action with Dembski-Bowden's and Abnett's works than that scene.



Lord of the Night said:


> Not trying to, just saying what I think. I enjoy a good debate, but I didn't expect to change your mind about it.


I only regard this as an obnoxious waste of time. If you are going to keep on justifying that scene to me I'll keep on refuting you. Otherwise I really do have many things I would rather be doing than waste time arguing with you.



Lord of the Night said:


> I don't know what Hol Beloth you were reading in KNF because I read him totally differently. To me he seemed like the Commander whose high on himself, the guy whose so ambitious that he doesn't realise that he isn't really that good and that costs him everything when he overestimates himself and underestimates the enemy. As to Maloq Kartho I liked how he was willing to sacrifice his own brothers just for his own ascension, that is a step forward towards the Chaos Space Marines that we are all familiar with, the guys who'll screw each other over in a heartbeat to get what they want, Kartho is probably the first one to really do that.


And such traits make rather boring, flat stereotypical villains. I could see what would happen a mile off and I promptly dismissed it as cliched. I was not disappointed.


----------



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Gree said:


> I only regard this as an obnoxious waste of time. If you are going to keep on justifying that scene to me I'll keep on refuting you. Otherwise I really do have many things I would rather be doing than waste time arguing with you.


Bah. Fine then. Discussion ended. Apparantely it was a waste of time.


LotN


----------



## Anakwanar (Sep 26, 2011)

Calth that was - really horrible, but Dead. Blue.Clown, Dan.i piss on lore. Abnett and Rob Sanders have saved the anthology from misery, and Laurie being burned for editing this:victory:


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> I think it's the weapon that will annihilate Horus's soul. Think about it, a lesser Athame killed M'kar and he was a Daemon Prince, imagine what an Athame that is older than Chaos could accomplish.




I am not in the best position to comment not having read this anthology yet, but to me, at the moment, that seems unlikely. Every source we have on the "final battle" has the Emperor mustering the totality of his power to destroy Horus, leaving himself extinguished and (as-good-as) dead himself. Of course things can change, but it doesn't seem the best plot change if, with Horus distracted by the custodian/terminator/Loken/old man Ol/Little Horus/tyranid/whatever, the Emperor runs at him with a dagger... "Lol! Stabbed you".

Is would also probably imply that destroying Horus was beyond the Emperor if he had to use a special dagger, and in my view, it would remove the emotional connotations of that scene: the Emperor mustering up his power (and unleashing the Star Child to some) to destroy his son.

Thats my humble impression anyway.


----------



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I am not in the best position to comment not having read this anthology yet, but to me, at the moment, that seems unlikely. Every source we have on the "final battle" has the Emperor mustering the totality of his power to destroy Horus, leaving himself extinguished and (as-good-as) dead himself. Of course things can change, but it doesn't seem the best plot change if, with Horus distracted by the custodian/terminator/Loken/old man Ol/Little Horus/tyranid/whatever, the Emperor runs at him with a dagger... "Lol! Stabbed you".
> 
> Is would also probably imply that destroying Horus was beyond the Emperor if he had to use a special dagger, and in my view, it would remove the emotional connotations of that scene: the Emperor mustering up his power (and unleashing the Star Child to some) to destroy his son.
> 
> ...


Perhaps,




Actually I was thinking that the Emperor would best Horus with his psychic powers as it says in the lore, but once Horus is down his true self returns briefly and accepts what must be done, and the Emperor uses the Athame to destroy his soul.

There's no proof of that being accurate yet but the Athame is hinted as having a mighty destiny, in fact here is the line;

_"That you will reach here is not certain, just as it was not certain that it would be you that would play this role. There were others - other knivesa nd daggers made of iron, of steel, of cold night. It could have been any of them or none of them. At each step chance could have changed your path, could have left you as another piece of history's flotsam discarded upon the shore of time.
Fate only exists in retrospect, but the road is now set, and though it may be long it will end, as all things must.
And I wait for you."_

And it's old, very very old. Older than Chaos if I read that one line correct. The Athame is noted as having been born in an era when the storm was just a breeze, the storm being Chaos, so it could be that this dagger isn't actually a tool of Chaos since it likely predates it. Something that old clearly has something incredibly important awaiting it if it's managed to survive this long, and as I said above the only thing I can think of that is that important would be helping the Emperor defeat Horus.

And in _Unmarked_ the Chaos Gods regard the Athame as important enough for them to dispatch M'kar to reclaim it, before he even existed in mortal time. Persson realises that The Foe, his word for Chaos, is concerned about what he is doing and he is surprised as even the Perpetuals don't really mean anything to the Gods other than being slightly more interesting torture fodder. Clearly the Athame is meant for something important, and the Emperor using it against Horus is the only thing I can think of in the lore already that fits. It could be something new entirely, have to wait and see.




LotN


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Anakwanar said:


> Calth that was - really horrible, but Dead. Blue.Clown, Dan.i piss on lore. Abnett and Rob Sanders have saved the anthology from misery, and Laurie being burned for editing this:victory:


Seems like you piss on the english language as well.


----------



## Anakwanar (Sep 26, 2011)

Vaz - your humor was absent from your birth. 
'Originally Posted by Anakwanar
Calth that was - really horrible, but Dead. Blue.Clown, Dan.i piss on lore. Abnett and Rob Sanders have saved the anthology from misery, and Laurie being burned for editing this'
Seems like you piss on the english language as well' 

 - man, i study 4 foreign languages (english included), and you are rude and angry kiddo. And this doesnt change the fact that this anthology is more dissapointing, than decent. It has its awesome stories - A Deeper Darkness, Unmarked, decent ones - Underworld war, Athame - but it has very bad one too - like Calth that was, Traveller and Shards of Erebus

P.S. If you want to compare penises - grow a fething backbone and come to BL Weekender 2013 - i will meet you where personally.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Don't make me laugh.

Wait. Too late.


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Anakwanar said:


> man, i study 4 foreign languages (english included), and you are rude and angry kiddo. And this doesnt change the fact that this anthology is more dissapointing, than decent. It has its awesome stories - A Deeper Darkness, Unmarked, decent ones - Underworld war, Athame - but it has very bad one too - like Calth that was, Traveller and Shards of Erebus
> 
> P.S. If you want to compare penises - grow a fething backbone and come to BL Weekender 2013 - i will meet you where personally.





Vaz said:


> Don't make me laugh.
> 
> Wait. Too late.


I think that little subtopic can end right there thanks.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Wondering how Dan Abnett pisses on lore but saves the anthology.

On the whole Abnett makes the lore. As for McNeil i used to feel like i was the only person in the world who couln't stand him. I think one of my first posts on here was about how poor i considered mcneil.

As for the editors, my opinion on them is fairly well documented. They are merely old boys from a Magazine editorial. The one person who was any good in that team was Fat Bloke but he got promoted out (what ever happened to him?) But Dunn, Kyme, Haley etc are utter shite, and now feel they can write as well.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Skipped _Calth That Was_ initially. Read it today. For one, generally just not a very good read. Two, as others have said, ruining good characters Abnett created. But lastly, even though I've never read his Ultramarine series, I could clearly tell some things were blatant nods to his characters or future events in those novels, quick look on Lex proved those feelings to be accurate.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Skipped _Calth That Was_ initially. Read it today. For one, generally just not a very good read. Two, as others have said, ruining good characters Abnett created. But lastly, even though I've never read his Ultramarine series, I could clearly tell some things were blatant nods to his characters or future events in those novels, quick look on Lex proved those feelings to be accurate.


I absolutely hate it when he does that. The majority of his novels, be they Heresy or 40k, seem to link in with his Ultramarines series these days. Why? It's fucking pointless, and is just a cheap way to promote your other work. The galaxy is a big place, use some bloody original characters that we don't know the ultimate fate of. 

Mcneill has really gone down in my estimations (not that he was very high to begin with) after the pile of shite _Angel Exterminatus_ turned out to be. Shame he couldn't replicate the success he had with _Fulgrim_ or _A Thousand Sons_, because his novels are just as bad as Swallow's at the moment.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I just don't understand how he could write the fantastic _A Thousand Sons_ and then turn out to be pretty poor in almost all his other novels. I like _Fulgrim_, it does capture the decadence and depravity of the corrupted Emperors Children pretty well, but even the first time reading it, I can distinctly remember being bored through various parts of the novel, pacing just seemed off. But _A Thousand Sons_, was genuinely brilliant, one of the best novels in the series and a big favourite of mine.


----------



## bobss (May 18, 2008)

_A Thousand Sons_ would be in my top five Heresy novels, but I can't deny it felt very formulaic. There were times when I felt like I was reading _Fulgrim_ only with different Legions, Primarchs, locations and names for the Remembrancer gang slotted in. The book gradually followed a more original path, but a good chunk of the story was a deja vu drag.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

my copy should arrive tomorrow but, i like macneil but have to agree about Angel exterminatus...i am struggling to finish it and i am nearly to the end...so much so that i started to read betrayer at the same time and i am enjoying that more


----------



## Stephen74 (Oct 1, 2010)

It's interesting to see people say that the ultrasmurfs were wooden. I wonder if this has something to do with the writting style. I've not read the book, I have it on audio, and the style of the book comes across fantasticly. The smurfs didnt sound wooden at all, however, the i'm not sure how that style would translate on paper. 

Calth that was - excellent on audio. Exactly what I wanted after listening to Know no fear.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Stephen74 said:


> Calth that was - excellent on audio. Exactly what I wanted after listening to Know no fear.


Everything is better on audio. 

There is a reason I am not touching the dead tree version of _Fear To Tread_. :wink:


----------



## Stephen74 (Oct 1, 2010)

Doelago said:


> Everything is better on audio.
> 
> There is a reason I am not touching the dead tree version of _Fear To Tread_. :wink:


Fear to tread was ok on audio but even that couldn't save the horrible portrayal of Sangunius. 


Looking at a lot of peoples negative comments I think the poor quality of writing makes it mind numbingly boring to read a lot of the books, especially McNeil, but listening to them on audio makes it easier to filter out the crap. As I listen to them whilst driving its easy to filter out the bad from the good. 

Much depends on who is doing the reading as well. Fortunately most of guys used are pretty good at it. Some are outstanding. Unfortunately 'hearing' a primarch can blow some preconceptions out the water as well. Sanguinius in Fear to Tread sounds gay enough to be in a boy band. Leman Russ has a lisp in Propsero Burns that makes him sound very odd. Lorgar is weird because he appears so often everyone does him differently. Angron, Fulgrim, Purturabo sound spot on - at least to my preconceptions.


----------



## theurge33 (Apr 4, 2012)

Quick question on Mark of CAlth...who is implied to have written the final passage of the book? Signed "N"


----------



## Anakwanar (Sep 26, 2011)

The most dissapointing anthology - after this one i will definitely stop buying anthologies from BL. As a leap of hope i bought Imperial Truth - :angry: the same shit. Thats it - only novels from BL now. If someone wants to know - Imperial truth doesnt gave up anything interesting or new for HH.
One bright spot - now i will definitely buy another novel for Warhammer Fantasy battles after the AWESOME Blighted Empire by Werner


----------

