# New Tyranids, my first Impression



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Okay, got my pre-ordered tyranid bundle today, and have spent a good portion of the day reading. Having been spoiled by false promises of the rumour department, I can admit to a few initial disappointments, but overall I am satisfied with what GW has produced for us. 

First up, things that are gone. 

Some special Characters. Namely the Parasite of Mortrex and that pain in the ass Doom of Malan'tai. Will I miss them? Frankly, no. Both of these creatures had amazing potential, but every time I fielded them I found one of two things. Either they would dominate the game, or flop in a single turn. Fun? Sure. Reliable? No. We don't need them. 

Other units. The Ymgarl genestealers have disappeared from the army list, being reduced once more to a fluff box on the genestealer page entry. Some might be sad to see these go, I have mixed feelings. They were a fun fluffy unit to play and could quite often turn the tide but on the whole I don't think they are a too big loss. More people might cry about the disappearance of the mycetic spore. Especially those like me who went to pains to convert models for them. :laugh: 

But again, they're not really essential nor were they particularly useful but for the Doom of Malan'tai... 


What's back? Depends on what you mean by back. Granted the haruspex and exocrine aren't new creatures, but this is their first appearance in a codex as playable units for 40k as far as I am aware. Other long time veterans may also recognize the name of The Red Terror, who has returned as an upgrade available to ravener broods. 

What's new? Lots of things... :shok: 

How about we start with the long awaited answer to the question _how the fuck are we supposed to deal with flyers???_ Well the answer swoops down in the form of the Hive Crone, a cousin to the harpy adapted for smashing enemy flyers from the air. Literally. The thing has spikes along its belly and totes a S8 vector strike. It also has the ability to drool on its ground enemies, again literally, via its aptly named "Drool Cannon." 

The harpy itself remains unchanged from what it could do previously, with both its main weapons still being blast weapons it still can't hit air targets for squat. I doubt we;ll be seeing much of her in the skies now that her more appealing sister has put in an appearance. 

The exocrine I can definitely see being popular. Why? When was the last time tyranids had a large blast weapon with AP2? Yea... Hey Imperial players, remember all those laughs you had when you were dropping demolisher templates on our swarms? Well it's about to be _Fuck you time..._ 

The haruspex I am less impressed with, for all its fancy tricks it is still a slow monster that has to plod across the battlefield to really come into its own. Like the harpy, I think it's destined to be outshone by its better in general sibling. 

Warlord traits are a nice addition, and all of them are refreshingly useful in most average games. Like the ability to turn any forest you get close to into a death patch, or deconstruct enemy cover saves before the battle starts. :wink: 

Instinctive behaviour took a small adjustment and... well, don't leave homagaunt or carnifex broods unattended too long, lest they _eat each other..._ This fun little tweak makes synapse that bit more pivotal without being a complete hindrance, as there is only a small chance that something that drastic will actually occur. Still...  

The wargear section was nicely fleshed out and brought up to 6e standard, with every bioweapon being granted its own ap and special rules and whatnot. And on a minor note, spore mine movement is no longer random. You read that correct. :grin: 

We also now have a selection of Hive artefacts, pieces of bio engineered wargear better than the average biomorph selections, such as a nifty set of pincers granting preferred enemy to the first type of creature they kill, or the Ymargl Factor, which allows one of your characters to mutate its body each turn similar to how the afore named genestealers could in the old book. 2+ Save Tyrant one turn, 6A Tyrant the next? Yes please... :spiteful: 

Psychic powers are now restricted, no longer can we select Biomancy, Telepathy or Telekinesis. I'm okay with this, as the Hive Mind Powers are not exactly as useless as they used to be. Plus the fact that your winged Hive Tyrant could potentially be toting a Warp Blast Warp Lance combo as a result, this gives you a second (and awesome) anti air option if Luck is on your side. :chuffed: 

There is a lot I still haven't covered, but I'm sure plenty of others can see what I've missed or overlooked. I'm expecting my first game tomorrow so I will be able to give some more insight then. :bye: 


Anyone else care to ask or share their own thoughts here?


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

ive not got the book but want a nid army, one question is there any rules that allow stealers to outflank and charge or oare mine going to stay on my shelf lol


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Okay, got my pre-ordered tyranid bundle today, and have spent a good portion of the day reading. Having been spoiled by false promises of the rumour department, I can admit to a few initial disappointments, but overall I am satisfied with what GW has produced for us.
> 
> First up, things that are gone.
> 
> ...


I agree with a lot of this but I want to throw in my 2 cents on certain units and things in particular.

The big change for me at least is the way Scything Talons work. As someone who utilised Raveners and Trygons the loss of the re-rolls they once granted will hurt their melee capabilities.

Going through the book from HQ here are my opinions on the army.

Hive Tyrant-Still awesome, still packs a whallop but a cheaper price tag and cheaper wings gives me more reason to get him. Did I also mention he is psyker level 2 base as well?

Tyrant Guard-Decent. They auto-pass Look Out Sir! (Although that was a given in my mind)but I find the weapon options expensive, especially if extra biomorphs are taken. Although knocking them down 10 points is good in my book.

Tervigon-The real main loser in this transition. Whilst the counter attack range increased to 12 inches so too did the blow up gaunts range. It also lost the ability to throw its toxin sacs and adrenal glands on gaunts. You require 30 now to take one as a troops choice AND they went up by 35 points. Although they did make them I2.

Tyranid Prime-Went up by over 40 points and the weapon options are more expensive. There is precious little to recommend one over a Hive Tyrant now.

Tyranid Warriors-Mostly stayed the same. Although with more model options now and the ability to take assault grenades they may become more popular.

Genestealers-Another unit that stays the same. Except the Broodlord is more expensive and loses the nifty hypnotic gaze power. Still would not recommend.

Termagaunts-Went down in price by a point and Spinefists are free now. They got a LD boost (Now 6!) so Synapse is not as much as a problem. Still not great either though. Will still take these.

Hormagaunts-Also went down a point and Bounding leap allows them to reach the enemy faster to tie up those annoying shooting units for a turn. Will defo include more of these in my army.

Ripper Swarms-Became more expensive in points but at least they will still be effective at tying stuff up. Not to mention they lose the mindless rule.

Hive Guard-Became 5 points more expensive but they still kick ass. The Impaler cannon got better (now ignores cover flat out) and the shockcannons are a nice alternative but the big kicker is that they are now BS3.

Zoanthropes-went down 10 points and stayed the same. Now because they are Brotherhood of psykers they get to use the assault profile of the Warp Blast/Lance attack as equal to the number of zoans in the unit. Warp Fields are still awesome.

Venomthropes-Also down 10 points whilst staying the same. Although the spore cloud is now *only* shrouded for units within 6 inches. Toxic Miasma is a lot better as well.

Lictors-Down 15 points and now can infiltrate to get more use out of the Pheromone Trail rule. Miles better because of this and if you do deep strike they now never scatter when doing so.

Haruspex-Very interesting as a beastie. I feel more than 1 is needed to get the most out of them. However regenerating wounds when it kills a guy in assault is nice as well as the new acid blood combined with the armourbane crushing claws now have make this impressive. Might not look like it has many attacks but it is ideal at tearing infantry units apart over 2 combat phases (which is the ideal for Nids).

Pyrovores-Went down 5 points but still runt of the Elites in my eyes. The volatile rule works instantly now not a 50:50 like before. Flamespurt did not get torrent.

Tyranid Shrikes-Went down 5 points whilst staying the same. Get same weapon options as normal warriors (this includes assault 'nades).

Raveners-Stayed the same points but lost an attack (technically they get it back by having 2 sets of combat weapons so no big deal). Spinefists are cheaper and the Red Terror is interesting to add as comedic value but don't rely on him. The restrictions of what he can swallow whole limit what he could eat that is of value (and no a Red Terror cannot eat another Red Terror since it can't swallow models that are very bulky).

Sky Slasher Swarms-More expensive for no change (except losing Mindless) do not take.

Gargoyles-Stay the same points but have Hunt rather than lurk and Blinding Venom is a poisoned (6+) attack now. Still dirt cheap for what you get.

Harpy-Slashed by 25 points and can use spore mine bombs more than once per game. Keeps the same options for the same price except now one has to pay for stinger salvos/cluster spines (meh). Best thing is that it got an extra wound as well.

Hive Crone-Will see lots of usage as the one realiable anti-air unit. S8 vector strike combined with S5 Haywire missiles that reroll misses against FMC's and Flyers. Drool Cannon not that great but that is not why one buys this thing.

Spore Mine Clusters-up by 5 points each but now get to control where they move. Would only take as an amusing divertion to place on objectives.

Carnifex-Still in broods and got price slashed by a 1/4 from last book. Gained 1I and have great options for them. Living Battering Ram is better now and they really look great for Shock Assaults. Also get tail weapons back (Yay!)

Biovores-Down 5 points and gained an extra wound. Spore Mine attack still the same but each one launches D3 Spore Mines for each Biovore firing (may be 3. Forgot and can't be bothered to flick through myself). More worth it now.

Trygon-dropped 10 points but lost 1 attack (but like Raveners gains it back thanks to pairs of CC weapons) apart from that it stays the same. Primes are also the same for 10 points less.

Mawloc-slashed by 30 points and the terror from the deep attack got better by being able to strike twice if the area is not cleared in the first one (I intend to use Lictors to get the most out of this)

Exocrine-New entry and for 170 points is great. Still wish the attack from the gun was S8 so it could insta kill marines but the added BS it picks up by sitting still make up for this. Plus it the hardest artillery piece in the game (T6 with W5 and 3+SV)

Tyrranofex-Slashed by 75 points (Brill!) but now has to buy the thorax swarm (although since all 3 are 10 points this is not really an issue) however the price increase of the Rupture Cannon is worrisome (up by 15 points)

Other big things to mention are that Toxin Sacs are still must haves on MC's that intend to be in combat and Adrenal Glands are better but are more expensive comparatively.

Of course these summaries are based of what I think on paper. I will start testing the units from tomorrow to gain a better analysis on how the army works. At a stab I think that troops will mainly be 10-15 man units of Gaunts/Hormagaunts for 4-6 choices since this is incredibly cheap to do so but then fleshed out with monsters and certain medium beasties (Zoanthropes especially!)


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> How about we start with the long awaited answer to the question _how the fuck are we supposed to deal with flyers???_ Well the answer swoops down in the form of the Hive Crone, a cousin to the harpy adapted for smashing enemy flyers from the air. Literally. The thing has spikes along its belly and totes a S8 vector strike. It also has the ability to drool on its ground enemies, again literally, via its aptly named "Drool Cannon."


I don't rate the Hive Crone. It's quite expensive, really fragile (T5 4+ is awful), and while Str8 Vector Strike is nice, it's not enough to deal with the really relevant aircraft (Vendetta and Heldrake - hurts Night Scythes, but I'd be amazed if you stayed alive past turn 2 against Necrons).



Serpion5 said:


> The harpy itself remains unchanged from what it could do previously, with both its main weapons still being blast weapons it still can't hit air targets for squat. I doubt we;ll be seeing much of her in the skies now that her more appealing sister has put in an appearance.


Agreed - none of the problems with it were fixed, so it's still pretty bad.



Serpion5 said:


> The exocrine I can definitely see being popular. Why? When was the last time tyranids had a large blast weapon with AP2? Yea... Hey Imperial players, remember all those laughs you had when you were dropping demolisher templates on our swarms? Well it's about to be _Fuck you time..._


I have an issue with it being only Str7 and only BS3. Demolisher Cannons can insta-kill people and can almost always get Divination for TL BS4 to make it hit things, while Riptides can get BS5 and Ignores Cover as well as insta-killing T4 and being a credible threat to tanks. Exocrines do technically have the rule where they stand still for +1 BS, but at only 24" range, rare is the army that will let you do that. Str7 AP2 is nice, but it's mounted on a pricy chassis (almost 50pts more than a Vindicator), as well as being fairly fragile (T6 and a 3+ is nice, but everyone and their dog is geared up to deal with 5 T8 3+ wounds or 6 T6 2+ wounds with Invulnerables, so T6 3+ 5 wounds is pretty blah as far as statlines go).



Serpion5 said:


> The haruspex I am less impressed with, for all its fancy tricks it is still a slow monster that has to plod across the battlefield to really come into its own. Like the harpy, I think it's destined to be outshone by its better in general sibling.


I think it's probably better than the Exocrine as it's a melee beasty in an army of melee beasties and with Carnifexes being relevant again, you can push a lot of monster at people and force them to deal with it, although I agree that being only 6" move and a lack of Fleet really hurts it (does it have Fleet? I can't remember from my brief leaf through the book).



Serpion5 said:


> Warlord traits are a nice addition, and all of them are refreshingly useful in most average games. Like the ability to turn any forest you get close to into a death patch, or deconstruct enemy cover saves before the battle starts. :wink:


Really? I think this is definitely the weakest trait table so far. Feel No Pain when you've taken a wound is pretty nice seeing as Regen is a pretty solid choice again, and +6" Synapse is never bad, but Night Vision/-1 to Cover are both bad for the same reason (Tyranids have short-range, high-AP torrent fire - Tau would love this trait, but it doesn't synergize with how Tyranids work).



Serpion5 said:


> Instinctive behaviour took a small adjustment and... well, don't leave homagaunt or carnifex broods unattended too long, lest they _eat each other..._ This fun little tweak makes synapse that bit more pivotal without being a complete hindrance, as there is only a small chance that something that drastic will actually occur. Still...


With everyone geared up to kill Monstrous Creatures (and all Imperial armies getting transferable Monster Hunter) now, I think that Instinctive Behaviour will become a lot more important as Synapse creatures will be dropping like flies. It's also far more damaging, which sucks, but it's fairly easy to mitigate by just taking more Synapse creatures (and Warriors got better, if not a whole lot better, so that's not as much of an issue now).



Serpion5 said:


> The wargear section was nicely fleshed out and brought up to 6e standard, with every bioweapon being granted its own ap and special rules and whatnot. And on a minor note, spore mine movement is no longer random. You read that correct. :grin:


Spore Mines are ok anti-tank now, but I still don't rate them. 3" movement simply isn't enough to get you to where your enemy is, which will be away from the Spores. If they do hit, they're quite nice, dealing a big hit to vehicles or a couple of wounds on an infantry unit, but a lot of units can shrug them off.



Serpion5 said:


> We also now have a selection of Hive artefacts, pieces of bio engineered wargear better than the average biomorph selections, such as a nifty set of pincers granting preferred enemy to the first type of creature they kill, or the Ymargl Factor, which allows one of your characters to mutate its body each turn similar to how the afore named genestealers could in the old book. 2+ Save Tyrant one turn, 6A Tyrant the next? Yes please... :spiteful:


Some of them are ok, some of them are atrocious (Norn Crown, cool fluff does not validate you), but I think that they suffer the same problems as almost everyone else's Relics in that all but one or two of them are hugely overpriced or simply not very good.



Serpion5 said:


> Psychic powers are now restricted, no longer can we select Biomancy, Telepathy or Telekinesis. I'm okay with this, as the Hive Mind Powers are not exactly as useless as they used to be. Plus the fact that your winged Hive Tyrant could potentially be toting a Warp Blast Warp Lance combo as a result, this gives you a second (and awesome) anti air option if Luck is on your side. :chuffed:


Hive Mind powers are not at all bad, but losing Biomancy is sad. Still, the extra range on Paroxysm is pretty major, and the other powers are all pretty nice (I really rather like The Horror, which is now pretty good).

My own thoughts:
Gargoyles. Gargoyles are *really, really good*. If you get into combat with Gargoyles, you're not getting out of combat again, because you're going to take 15 Blind tests on the turn they charge and they will sit there with Fearless and you'll hit on 5s. I expect most lists to be bringing at least 40, if not the full 90.
Mawlocs are *very strong*. Two Strength 6 AP2 Large Blasts that focus on the same point is pretty damn powerful, even if you can't do the burrowing trick any more.
Hive Guard are still strong - the nerf to Old Adversary and going down to BS3 hurts them, but Ignores Cover is nice even if it's not that much better than before, and you can usually take out a tank through just glances with the Haywire blasts as well as being a threat to infantry (it's rare you'll completely miss a tank with the Blasts, so I'd probably bring those rather than Impalers).
Best anti-air is still a Hive Tyrant with Brainleech Worms - the Crone is 'meh', but 12 Strength 6 shots into rear armour is very, very nice.
Shadow in the Warp is nice as anti-psyker defence, even if it is short-ranged. Still, more than other armies get, which is a thing.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

kickboxerdog said:


> ive not got the book but want a nid army, one question is there any rules that allow stealers to outflank and charge or oare mine going to stay on my shelf lol


Genestealers themselves are more or less the same.  



Stephen_Newman said:


> Tyranid Prime-Went up by over 40 points and the weapon options are more expensive. There is precious little to recommend one over a Hive Tyrant now.


I still find it useful, potentially. I'm having a game with one today just to see if its points increase really costs me in the end considering the points drops elsewhere. 



Stephen_Newman said:


> Carnifex-Still in broods and got price slashed by a 1/4 from last book. Gained 1I and have great options for them. Living Battering Ram is better now and they really look great for Shock Assaults. Also get tail weapons back (Yay!)


I agree, I think we'll see a return of these fellas. I know I will, I have the models so... 



MidnightSun said:


> I don't rate the Hive Crone. It's quite expensive, really fragile (T5 4+ is awful), and while Str8 Vector Strike is nice, it's not enough to deal with the really relevant aircraft (Vendetta and Heldrake - hurts Night Scythes, but I'd be amazed if you stayed alive past turn 2 against Necrons).


Given that it is at least a competitive air option, I definitely rate the Hive Crone. I'm testing one today, if it does half as well as I hope I'll still be taking two in my list. 



MidnightSun said:


> I have an issue with it being only Str7 and only BS3. Demolisher Cannons can insta-kill people and can almost always get Divination for TL BS4 to make it hit things, while Riptides can get BS5 and Ignores Cover as well as insta-killing T4 and being a credible threat to tanks. Exocrines do technically have the rule where they stand still for +1 BS, but at only 24" range, rare is the army that will let you do that. Str7 AP2 is nice, but it's mounted on a pricy chassis (almost 50pts more than a Vindicator), as well as being fairly fragile (T6 and a 3+ is nice, but everyone and their dog is geared up to deal with 5 T8 3+ wounds or 6 T6 2+ wounds with Invulnerables, so T6 3+ 5 wounds is pretty blah as far as statlines go).


Still, the mere fact that we have an AP2 BLAST weapon is a huge step forward and can be critical in any number of early game situations, or even late game terminator surprises. It's definitely something I wouldn't simply right off because it seems worse than other army equivalents on paper. 



MidnightSun said:


> Really? I think this is definitely the weakest trait table so far. Feel No Pain when you've taken a wound is pretty nice seeing as Regen is a pretty solid choice again, and +6" Synapse is never bad, but Night Vision/-1 to Cover are both bad for the same reason (Tyranids have short-range, high-AP torrent fire - Tau would love this trait, but it doesn't synergize with how Tyranids work).


I have never considered warlord traits all that essential, but these ones I actually can see being applicable in a lot of games. One thing I've notices is that the codex includes multiple means to obtain a few of the same buffs, either by lucky dice rolling or by paying points. Taking Old Adversary for example would nullify your adaptive biology here for instance, but if you'd rather save points and try your luck, hey well you can.  



MidnightSun said:


> Some of them are ok, some of them are atrocious (Norn Crown, cool fluff does not validate you), but I think that they suffer the same problems as almost everyone else's Relics in that all but one or two of them are hugely overpriced or simply not very good.


To be frank I think they're all pretty atrocious for their points cost, but they're all also good for a laugh and provide great modelling opportunities. Honestly I think that's all they're really here for. The Norn crown is for if you don't want to risk rolling the same ability on the psyker or warlord tables, the reaper is just a lashwhip bonesword combo in one with a strength bonus and the pincers are more or less just like the old scything talons for effect, except you have to kill something before they work. Like I said, a laugh and an interesting conversion. :scratchhead:


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Given that it is at least a competitive air option, I definitely rate the Hive Crone. I'm testing one today, if it does half as well as I hope I'll still be taking two in my list.


Not sure it is a 'competitive air option' because even a Quad-Gun is a major threat to it and the two-guns-limit is a major dampener on it's effectiveness, but try it and see. Can't tell these things just by looking at paper copies 



Serpion5 said:


> Still, the mere fact that we have an AP2 BLAST weapon is a huge step forward and can be critical in any number of early game situations, or even late game terminator surprises. It's definitely something I wouldn't simply right off because it seems worse than other army equivalents on paper.


Tyranids have had easily accessible AP3 blasts for the past two editions from Warp Blast, and Bio-Plasma isn't anything new. Anything that you'd want the Exocrine for can be done better, in my view, by the 28 Gargoyles you could take instead (which are so good now it's not even funny).



Serpion5 said:


> I have never considered warlord traits all that essential, but these ones I actually can see being applicable in a lot of games. One thing I've notices is that the codex includes multiple means to obtain a few of the same buffs, either by lucky dice rolling or by paying points. Taking Old Adversary for example would nullify your adaptive biology here for instance, but if you'd rather save points and try your luck, hey well you can.


Warlord Traits are far from essential due to their random nature, but they're important because they can be really powerful. Most of them are forgettable, one or two per book are solid (Black Crusader, Eternal Hatred, Courage of the Lion, Brilliant Planning, Lord of Unreality, Immortal Commander, Exemplar of the Selfless Cause etc.), and then some of them are just really good, usually ones that you can guarantee getting but some that are just plain powerful (Conqueror of Cities, Master of Deception, maybe Predator of the Skies). But the Tyranid ones are a bit underwhelming compared to even the BRB ones; I'd rather try and luck out for Stealth in ruins or -1 to enemy reserves than going for Tyranids, where some of them are outright bad (Night Fight, challenges and carnivorous forests, extra synapse is pretty good if you can guarantee it but as a random thing you can't factor it into your plan and you should have your synapse planned out before you even start thinking about rolling Traits).



Serpion5 said:


> To be frank I think they're all pretty atrocious for their points cost, but they're all also good for a laugh and provide great modelling opportunities. Honestly I think that's all they're really here for. The Norn crown is for if you don't want to risk rolling the same ability on the psyker or warlord tables, the reaper is just a lashwhip bonesword combo in one with a strength bonus and the pincers are more or less just like the old scything talons for effect, except you have to kill something before they work. Like I said, a laugh and an interesting conversion. :scratchhead:


But why can't we have our cake and eat it too and have fun fluffy things that are also good on tabletop? _Why can't we have everything Serp?!_


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## Mokuren (Mar 29, 2011)

Today I have browsed through the Tyranid codex. It's not mine so I don't have it on hand right this moment, which means I don't exactly remember costs or effects, but I still have a feel of their general state.

I like the new codex. If we didn't have stuff like riptides, missilesides, wave serpents, 48" scoring jetbikes and screamerstars I'd be pretty satisfied with its general state, unfortunately a few problems have been laid in this edition that we'll have to keep for several years which kind of spoil the fun.

But, against anything that isn't tournament comp I think it's a lot better than it first looked. And I don't mean better than the internet backlash made it sound, I mean better than I personally thought when looking at costs and stats. Sure, lots of things got nerfed, and I do mean a lot (no rerolls from scything talons and almost everything being WS 3, still being an assault-dependant army in an edition where shooting rules and shooty armies are in control of what gets to assault and what doesn't, plus the removal of mycetic spores) but I don't see, for example, Space Marines or non-screamerstar Daemons or IG auto-winning against pretty much anything Tyranids could possibly field.

Hell I've been wanting to play my sisters against Tyranids since forever and I'm pretty sure it would be a fun game, and if sisters stand a chance against it it cannot possibly be a broken codex. It would be terrible broken if it was to struggle against them, but I don't think that's the case either.

It's still going to be vastly ignored in the meta and hardly going to place anywhere relevant in tournament play.


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## lockeF (Feb 18, 2011)

Honestly although I am a bit disappointed with a few things, overall I am pleased. My mind has been bursting with new ideas. And I am not even that bothered with the loss of biomancy (which after I play some games I may end up bothered). But it seems the days of mono-build tyranids or close to mono-build are over. Which to me is a huge bonus. While fighting Tau will be an uphill battle I feel it always has been.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Okay, a few more verdicts. 

The crone, as I figured did perform as I wanted for the few turns it was alive. Granted it is still somewhat fragile, so I encourage not being shy about lobbing tentaclids at the earliest opportunity. Overall, I stick with my initial impression of worthwhile. I'm even planning to add a second. 

Winged Hive Tyrant, now cheaper and just as awesome as before. Spent nearly all game vector striking my opponent's infantry lines, even managing a triple run against a deffkopta squad, Killa Kanz and a deff dred. Definitely worthwhile. 

Tyranid Prime, surprisingly efficient. I equiped him with the Reaper of Obliterax for lols bur the extra strength stat really let him earn his points back, laying waste to a foolhardy ork nob squad and even the warboss alongside his tyranid warrior brood. The boost he gave to the brood and the extra strength from the artifact were the real positive points to this. 


Termagaunts, gargoyles, just as swarmy and bothersome as usual. The carnifex likewise turned out to be hit and miss (I ran two and got one of each result with them) but since I could run them cheaper there was no real regret on that front. 

I'm going to change my list for my next game to see how some other units and tactics perform. But with one win so far my outlook is optimistic. :good:


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

Here's my list of problems I have with the codex that people seem to be glossing over:
1) Only one unit has a 2+ save (and it's not a HQ or a Carnifex
2) Primaris Psychic power is a Joke.
3) AP2 Melee Weapons only found on MCs and Tyrant Guard
4) Grenades where you don't need them, missing even so much as an option where you do (aside from paying for them on a Tyranid Prime and having him join a unit)
5) Still no Allies, nor expanded FOC
6) Tons of really cool Wargear/Biomorph options.... that next to no one can take.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Da Joka said:


> Here's my list of problems I have with the codex that people seem to be glossing over:
> 1) Only one unit has a 2+ save (and it's not a HQ or a Carnifex
> 2) Primaris Psychic power is a Joke.
> 3) AP2 Melee Weapons only found on MCs and Tyrant Guard
> ...


1)so do other books. Eldar only have it on PL's and Dark Eldar don't have it full stop. Not that big a deal really since it's supposed to be a valued commodity. I hope other books restrict it as much.

2)increasing synapse range a joke? It's on the same level as other primaries powers plus it allows slower beasties to control faster units like Hormagaunts or Raveners without relying on wings.

3) most armies have sparse AP2 weapons. Bids have more than most due to the amount if MC's one can bring to the table.

4) grenades are an option on Warriors. A great place if you ask me. If nods had grenades everywhere they would be more expensive in points and then it would lose the swarm factor.

5) I'll give you that one I thought something would be done about it.

6) loads of creatures can take the normal biomorphs. If you mean the artifacts but in every army only HQ options can take them.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Da Joka said:


> Here's my list of problems I have with the codex that people seem to be glossing over:
> 1) Only one unit has a 2+ save (and it's not a HQ or a Carnifex
> 2) Primaris Psychic power is a Joke.
> 3) AP2 Melee Weapons only found on MCs and Tyrant Guard
> ...





Stephen_Newman said:


> 1)so do other books. Eldar only have it on PL's and Dark Eldar don't have it full stop. Not that big a deal really since it's supposed to be a valued commodity. I hope other books restrict it as much.


Drazhar 

But for Nids, since it's available on Tyrannofexes and Carnifexes, you can take a bunch of those and push MCs at people, like Nid fluff has done since forever. You don't need many T6 2+ save MCs to be really scary tough.



Stephen_Newman said:


> 2)increasing synapse range a joke? It's on the same level as other primaries powers plus it allows slower beasties to control faster units like Hormagaunts or Raveners without relying on wings.


It's pretty bad - it's nice to have on one or two dudes, but as a Primaris? I'd rather have useful powers than giving all my units Synapse three times over.



Stephen_Newman said:


> 3) most armies have sparse AP2 weapons. Bids have more than most due to the amount if MC's one can bring to the table.


True dat, and Nids have always been about torrent anyway. You don't *need* AP2 when you can roll a million dice.



Stephen_Newman said:


> 4) grenades are an option on Warriors. A great place if you ask me. If nods had grenades everywhere they would be more expensive in points and then it would lose the swarm factor.


Warriors are crap, but point on the swarm factor.


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## Igni Ferroque (Dec 7, 2010)

Is shadow in the warp tied in with synapse or do they work differently, for example, if i have a 24 inch synapse do I get a 24 inch shadow in the warp range?


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## Zerodyme619 (Jul 1, 2011)

Nope, does not look like it.
They are mentioned as completely separate rules in the Codex.

I've been flipping through the Codex all Weekend long, and so far, I really like it. Just while tinkering with some Lists, I was surprised at how much stuff I can fit into an 1500 pts game.
A little disappointed about pyrovores, but overall, I can only laugh about the guys that are crying end of the world, especially in some other Forums...
Can't wait for some test games =)


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## NostromanNeckTie (Sep 3, 2013)

I also REALLY like this book. The points drop to nearly every unit is something that is being over looked I think by many players. Not to mention Carnifexes are finally back to where they used to be, they're a tad more expensive than they were in the 4th ed. book but now you can take units of 3. 

Dakkafexes can put out a ridiculous number of shots, now think of a unit of 3 under the effects of Onslaught. That's 36 twin-linked strength 6 shots at 25-30 inch range. Something not to be brushed off.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Hey, don't knock Pyrovores. Their death explosion is now a board wipe


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

I got in a game against the new nids yesterday - I really enjoyed it. Can't emphasise that enough  I used my black legion csm list for the first time. It was a good, close game. 

The Swarmlord is still evil. The Mawloc doing his st6 ap2 hit on a squad with a wound re-roll is excellent. When it arrives beneath someone, I assume if you hit, you start taking casualties from the centre outward so could that be used similar to barrage sniping? (Didn't think about it at the time)

There was a Trygon Prime, a Tervigon, a Mawloc, The Swarmlord, A flying Tyrant and what seemed like an ocean of smaller gribblies. Most of my force spent most of the game hiding at the back of the board, shitting itself and shooting for all it was worth :laugh:

It was that lovely moment at deployment (at 2k) where your opponant puts down unit after unit and you're thinking 'anytime you'd like to stop I honestly wouldn't mind' :laugh:

It was seriously fun.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

With the Mawloc rules for arriving, if you had an IC in the center of the template, and he passed all his LoS rolls and survived, that would force the Mawloc to mishap, wouldn't it? So you could effectively minimise the effect of the Mawloc with careful placement of ICs, terrain and vehicles, allowing the template to only be touching a few models.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

The Mawloc wasn't that bad against my fnp terminators - it failed to clear a path twice (although it took out my champion and two of my combi melta's). It kept going into ongoing reserves though so it kept coming back. 
I took casualties everytime it turned up.
I think its one to use to kill a squad of meq/geq. And with LoS as Sethis said above, try to avoid characters


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

I can't believe the Tyranid Prime got worse, and STILL can't take wings!


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

just a quick question , is the tyranid version of the drop pod still in this dex? and is it a viable option to use and who can take it?


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

No, they removed it since they can't be bothered to make a model for it. No drop pods for youuuuu!


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## jd579 (May 8, 2010)

*Gargoyles*

I need to know why gargoyles are so good now, I read it as poisoned 6+ which, seeming I have a fundamental inability to roll 6s doesn't seem that good, don't get me wrong , I love the models and really wanted to take loads of them but I feel I need there awesomeness explained to me a little more before I commit to buying shit loads of them


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

jd579 said:


> I need to know why gargoyles are so good now, I read it as poisoned 6+ which, seeming I have a fundamental inability to roll 6s doesn't seem that good, don't get me wrong , I love the models and really wanted to take loads of them but I feel I need there awesomeness explained to me a little more before I commit to buying shit loads of them


Because it lets you hurt Wraithknights and such if you really want to, but you re-roll 4s against T3 and still wound Marines on 5s. The main attraction, though, is that you're going to force 10 or 15 Blinding tests on people, so if you get into combat with Gargoyles you're never going to get out again as hitting 30 Fearless dudes on 5s is pretty insane.


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## jd579 (May 8, 2010)

Thanks midnightsun, I have never come across blinding tests so this is a new one for me, I have only been able to skim through the new dex as well, hopefully I will get to rub my hands together tonight


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> Mawlocs are *very strong*. Two Strength 6 AP2 Large Blasts that focus on the same point is pretty damn powerful, even if you can't do the burrowing trick any more.


You can still choose to burrow if you start the turn on the board. As has been mentioned elsewhere, cmbining Mawlocs with Lictors is a *horrible* combo, as you no longer scatter and will definately hit where you choose to appear...



ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I can't believe the Tyranid Prime got worse, and STILL can't take wings!


Sorry. Word from the studio is they won't get wings whilst plastic wings aren't available for warriors, and those aren't appearing any time soon. This made me sad too.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

SilverTabby said:


> You can still choose to burrow if you start the turn on the board. As has been mentioned elsewhere, cmbining Mawlocs with Lictors is a *horrible* combo, as you no longer scatter and will definately hit where you choose to appear...


You can't burrow on turn 1, which makes it a far less appealing option. Still technically possible, but you take one or two turns of shooting first.


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## Veteran Sergeant (May 17, 2012)

Stephen_Newman said:


> 5) I'll give you that one I thought something would be done about it.


As an old school Tyranid/Genestealer Cult player, what exactly were they going to ally with?

Don't say IGuard, because that's not what the Genestealer Cult was. It was its own army, not Tyranids + Tanks. I'd love to see a Genestealer Cult list return, but it needs to be its own entity. But Tyranids don't ally with anyone. The Genestealer Cult gets eaten right alongside everyone else, lol. 


I'm guessing that eventually the mycetic spore will return, but not until it gets a model. Leaving it in the codex was just making money for 3rd party companies.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Veteran Sergeant said:


> As an old school Tyranid/Genestealer Cult player, what exactly were they going to ally with?
> 
> Don't say IGuard, because that's not what the Genestealer Cult was. It was its own army, not Tyranids + Tanks. I'd love to see a Genestealer Cult list return, but it needs to be its own entity. But Tyranids don't ally with anyone. The Genestealer Cult gets eaten right alongside everyone else, lol.
> 
> ...


The early rumours for Nids suggested that they would get an expanded force organisation chart. I.E it suggested that Nids could take a 3rd HQ choice as long as 2 extra troops choices were taken. This would make up for the Nid inability to take allies.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

SilverTabby said:


> Sorry. Word from the studio is they won't get wings whilst plastic wings aren't available for warriors, and those aren't appearing any time soon. This made me sad too.


It's not your fault. It's bizarre that Primes can improve shrikes, and yet can't (can, but won't) be attached to them. Even though he's horrendously overcosted, I can see a Prime maybe being useful as a 'tank' for a squad of venomthropes.

The whole 'dex is frustrating to read. For every good decision, like decreasing the cost of carnifexes; there's a lazy, stupid or terrible decision like warriors staying the same to balance it out. There's so much restriction, for little to no gain. No allies, no other warlord tables, no other psychic disciplines, for what? 

I really wanted this codex to be good, I've been painting gaunts for the past week in preparation, but the more I read it the worse it looks. I'm not going to be overdramatic and say it's unplayable, but it's definitely disappointing.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> The haruspex I am less impressed with, for all its fancy tricks it is still a slow monster that has to plod across the battlefield to really come into its own. Like the harpy, I think it's destined to be outshone by its better in general sibling.


Actually, it can be just as fast as a Trygon or any other fast critter - give it Adrenal Glands and it becomes Fleet...


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## Veteran Sergeant (May 17, 2012)

Stephen_Newman said:


> The early rumours for Nids suggested that they would get an expanded force organisation chart. I.E it suggested that Nids could take a 3rd HQ choice as long as 2 extra troops choices were taken. This would make up for the Nid inability to take allies.


Ahh. 

Well maybe they thought it wasn't necessary. We have to remember GW writes the rules based on how they play 40K at Games Workshop. Not how anyone else plays it, lol.

This is the company that allows self-allied quadruple Riptide lists just because it never occurs to them that people would do that.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Well Tyranids have had price cuts across the board, and I'd be surprised if you're completely filling a Force Organisation Chart at lower than 2000pts, and if you're playing 2000pts or more then you get double slots anyway.



SilverTabby said:


> Actually, it can be just as fast as a Trygon or any other fast critter - give it Adrenal Glands and it becomes Fleet...


Wait, some people think Adrenal Glands is optional?


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## Igni Ferroque (Dec 7, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> Because it lets you hurt Wraithknights and such if you really want to, but you re-roll 4s against T3 and still wound Marines on 5s. The main attraction, though, is that you're going to force 10 or 15 Blinding tests on people, so if you get into combat with Gargoyles you're never going to get out again as hitting 30 Fearless dudes on 5s is pretty insane.


Hang on, don't you just take one test no matter how many weapons you are hit by? Much like how leadership was only reduced by 1 no matter how many devourers you were hit with in the old codex?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

SilverTabby said:


> Actually, it can be just as fast as a Trygon or any other fast critter - give it Adrenal Glands and it becomes Fleet...


The trygon has the option to deep strike and can place a marker for further reserves to arrive. It's also better suited to cc and shooting than the haruspex.

At the end of the day, I can think of better uses for my elite slots. Not saying the haruspex is terrible, I just think there are better options.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

> Hang on, don't you just take one test no matter how many weapons you are hit by? Much like how leadership was only reduced by 1 no matter how many devourers you were hit with in the old codex?


BRB P.34: "Any unit hit by a model or weapon with this special rule must immediately take an Initiative test."


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I've said it elsewhere, but I think the way to run this book will be two Flyrants with Brainleech Worms, two mid-large squads of Termagants to score backfield objectives, 90 Gargoyles and 6+ Carnifexes with Adrenal. Clog fire lanes/units with Gargoyles, and shove a load of MCs in their face turn 2. The alternative list would be to run a handful of Lictors, infiltrate them in, and then bring 3 Mawlocs, but I don't like it as much.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Keeping those 'fexes in synapse may be a problem, as will the lack of forward scoring units. You can solve the synapse problem, with some zoanthropes hiding behind the 'fexes, but the forward scoring troops is tough. Spamming gaunts or hormagaunts seems the inelegant solution.

On a side note; I just noticed those nifty little missiles on the crone. Gone are my days of converting tyranid kraken's for BFG.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

How long do you reckon it'll be before Gargoyles get FAQ'd to only cause 1 blinding test?

Even if they don't, they're still non-scoring tarpits that shut down exactly 1 enemy squad. That's not going to win you the game by itself.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

You could multi charge with them if you have enough - whats the max squad size?
You'd have to put up with more overwatch, but if your squad was big enough...


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I have some tyranids enough for 1k at least I tried them out broadly during an apoc game but that's not a good way to judge them. Either way I really have a struggle when painting them, I dunno what it is but I find them difficult to figure out a scheme I like for them and make them look good, so I'm thinking of just giving up on them.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Meh, you sit Carnifex butts on forward objectives, Scoring's overrated XD

Gargoyles are amazing. Really good. They will win a LOT of combats.


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## NostromanNeckTie (Sep 3, 2013)

I agree, Gargoyles seem to be the way to go. Jump infantry being able to take down wraithknights and riptides with poison attacks is awesome. I actually dropped the hive crones in my list for a huge squad of them.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

It's the fact that they're a 12" move, Fearless tarpit that makes their opponent fight at WS1 that enthuses me, and for the same price as an Ork Boy they're criminally cheap. A lot of armies will be hard pressed to deal with 90 of them before they arrive on turn 2.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

As much as I like the reborn Dakkafex, I'm liking the look of a Tyranofex to back them up. It's really tough, not too much more expensive than a Dakkafex, can have a S6 AP4 torrent flamer + one of the thorax flamers, AND provides a nice big piece of mobile cover for your Dakkafexes, other MCs and zoanthropes.

Also the Trygon Prime with Norn Crown has a ridiculous synapse footprint. Ludicrously expensive though.

Just throwing it out there, what do people think?


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

I'm contemplating a Tyrannofex with a Fleshborer Hive. 20 boltpistol shots, with a better range than a termagant, and now not so bad in combat so you pile it forwards, maybe with a Hive Guard escort... 

My other thought is an Exocrine with the same escort as my firepower. That one has more versatility, but not as much durability. But it does have the option of first turn piling forwards to get in range, throwing templates until it becomes too dangerous and then planting itself for multiple shots. The Guard don't care if they move or not, and all are adequate at defending themselves if needed. Slap a unit of zoanthropes with them for synapse control (who can hide behind the big guy) and that's quite scarey.


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## NostromanNeckTie (Sep 3, 2013)

Not to mention you can position one of the Zoeys on the side so it can see. And thanks to brotherhood of psykers only one has to see and the remaining two can't be killed behind the Tfex.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I'm still going to stick with the crone or two myself. Flying off the table edge as far forward as possible on turn 1 then returning later to vector strike their way across the board, then throw tentaclids at bothersome vehicles and flyers seems like a good strategy to me. It's worked well with my tyrant in the past and a S8 strike should be even better. 

Gargoyles I will use as well, just... one unit of twenty. They still accomplish plenty, a pressing distraction since my opponent is well aware of what combat with them means. :good: 

As for the rest, I'm still not sold on anything necessarily being better than anything else. I'm going to try a few combinations and see what really works alongside what I already have. The Fleshborer Hive sounds a good idea but I also want to see how biovores work out. I don't expect them to be fantastic but at least they're cheap for long range anti-infantry.


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## fatmantis (Jun 26, 2009)

biovores are really good..cheap and usually get good results


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

The Hive Crone still seems a bit underwhelming - only firing two weapons per turn is a pain, and the Vector Strike is almost always going to be one of those because hey, it's better than Tentaclids. Tentaclids are weird - as far as anti-air goes, they're pretty reasonable, but against ground targets you don't even statistically kill a Rhino with your full complement of Tentaclids. The Drool Cannon is so short ranged as to be useless against Marines, and against any army that cares about an Incinerator that moves like a hippo on roller skates you're not going to get within 8.5" of their vulnerable units.

It's fragile and has the extra, annoying problem of Synapse. Leadership 10 is good, but it still fails often enough and against Eldar or Guard or someone else who can lower Leadership, it's a donwright liability. If you fail Synapse you die, pretty much, so I'd be very wary about it.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Looking at something frailties shouldn't dominate what you think of it. Ultimately every unit in the nid codex can be felled over one or two turns by most armies.

It's like not taking a wraithknight just because they're vulnerable to poison and heavy weapons. 

Crones are not perfect, but they still have much potential and multiple uses, whereas the gargoyles cannot hunt tanks, cannot take out other flyers and cannot strafe multiple units and then fire at another. Then of course, two crones is also much easier to build and transport than sixty gargoyles.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

> I also want to see how biovores work out.


I was also considering Biovores, but can't figure out which synapse creature to keep behind. With the new IB, on a 1-3 they won't be able to shoot at all. Any ideas?


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## returnoftheclown (Mar 14, 2012)

DestroyerHive said:


> I was also considering Biovores, but can't figure out which synapse creature to keep behind. With the new IB, on a 1-3 they won't be able to shoot at all. Any ideas?


Well, the choices as I see are quite limited really to the main usual suspects:

Zoans
Prime
Warriors

The price increase of primes makes this very difficult to justify, except that it does give the unit access to a 'bodyguard'.

Zoans are too short ranged to spend there time at the back of the board.

So it sort of leaves warriors. Yes yes yes, they get a bad press but it gives you a back field objective holder which can babysit your spore firing monsters. And coming in at best 35pts cheaper than a prime, feel you get more for your buck.


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## NostromanNeckTie (Sep 3, 2013)

I have a zoanthrope, 11 termagants, and 3 biovores all in the backfield behind an aegis defense line with a quad gun. I like zoanthropes more than warriors cuz they're cheaper and you get an extra power.


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## returnoftheclown (Mar 14, 2012)

My issue with a single zoan though is the loss of an elite slot. This slot is been fought (mainly) between Hive guard, Zoans and venomthropes. This edition might also see an increase in Lictor use and perhaps even the Haruspex (though really still not sure what to make of it).

So personally feel you are wasting a slot on just a single zoan who isn't really going to see much action. But again my views.

And I've not played with nids for a long while, but I vaguely remember that they can't take fortifications. or have I got this wrong?


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## NostromanNeckTie (Sep 3, 2013)

They could always take fortifications IIRC but the FAQ didn't allow them to fire emplaced weapons. But now that FAQ is obsolete with the new codex. And I feel units of single zoanthropes are better because of their ability to roll for an additional power. Hive guard are still good even though they're BS3 now. I just like zoeys and venoms better.


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## returnoftheclown (Mar 14, 2012)

NostromanNeckTie said:


> They could always take fortifications IIRC but the FAQ didn't allow them to fire emplaced weapons.


My apologies! As I say I haven't played with nids since 6th had dropped and didn't really look at how it affected them properly. 



NostromanNeckTie said:


> And I feel units of single zoanthropes are better because of their ability to roll for an additional power. Hive guard are still good even though they're BS3 now. I just like zoeys and venoms better.


Please don't think I'm arguing against zones. I think they have only got better with this edition. But speaking purely from a static zone right at the back of the board, really there is only one power is really helping you and that's catalyst.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I'd go with a minimum squad of Warriors and a Venomthrope to stop them all falling over as soon as somebody points a gun at you. Aegis Lines are nice, but mass Shrouding makes them so much nicer.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Why sit them at the back? March them forwards, everything is assault! That way the zoans with them can shoot once in range...


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

I have a query. It may have been here, but I can't seem to find it: Someone mentioned using a Flyrant instead of a crone as anti-air, because whilst the vector strike wasn't as good, the twin-linked devourers would give 6-12 shots that would rip apart flyers.

How?

I read the flyer section, flyers can choose to either skyfire or ground fire each turn. Flying MCs however can't. If they don't have Skyfire on their guns, they can't shoot other airborne targets without it being snapshots. Or am I missing something (like yet another rule that isn't where it should be, in the FMC section...)?


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Still flicking through, but I'm really liking that units can have pick 'n mix weaponry again. Termagants, 'stealers and Warriors can all take differing choices within the same unit, as can tyrant guard, hive guard, shrikes, raveners and carnifexes... :grin:

My warriors are likely to have 'sargeants' with boneswords now, and my devourer gants will have a screen of fleshborers...


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

> Why sit them at the back? March them forwards, everything is assault!


By gum, you're right!



> I read the flyer section, flyers can choose to either skyfire or ground fire each turn. Flying MCs however can't.


Indeed there was an oversight in the Rulebook, but the FAQ revised this on page 6, 

"Q: Flyers are entitled to choose whether or not to use the Skyfire
special rule at the start of each Shooting phase. Can Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures also do this? (p49)
A: Yes."

This is now especially powerful with the boost to BS on the Tyrants.


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## NostromanNeckTie (Sep 3, 2013)

Also, 'Nids can take the fortress of redemption. Put zoanthropes in it for an obnoxiously big synapse bubble.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

NostromanNeckTie said:


> Also, 'Nids can take the fortress of redemption. Put zoanthropes in it for an obnoxiously big synapse bubble.


Would you not measure auras from the section of the building you're in, not from the building as a whole? I always thought you'd measure from the eges of the walkway or bunker annex or tower.


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## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

Even so, that is a much bigger footprint...


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Ah! I have not read the FAQ, I shall now do so. That makes my HQ choice easier :grin: Thanks!


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> Would you not measure auras from the section of the building you're in, not from the building as a whole? I always thought you'd measure from the eges of the walkway or bunker annex or tower.


Or from where the actual *creature* is? The building isn't synapse, the zoan is.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

SilverTabby said:


> Or from where the actual *creature* is? The building isn't synapse, the zoan is.


No, auras are definitely extended by buildings and vehicles (because the Standard of Devastation had similar press), but I'm just wondering about how that interacts with multi-part buildings.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> No, auras are definitely extended by buildings and vehicles (because the Standard of Devastation had similar press), but I'm just wondering about how that interacts with multi-part buildings.


*blinks*

What rulebook is this coming from? The BRB has no terminology for 'auras'. 
They say treat those in bunkers as if they were in a dedicated transport for various things, and the dedicated transport section has nothing about area effects from passengers in it. 

What is the Standard of Devastation? 

From what I understand (having just sat doen and read the whole lot), you're right on buildings extending the effect *a bit* as as with transports, you measure ranged effects from the hull if you are embarked upon it. Buildings are treated as stationary transports, so measure from the portion of the building you are in. A bunker would be from it's walls. Something like the much bigger ones that are joined by battlements it would be from whichever part of the multi-part building you are in/on, not the whole thing. That's just taking the piss. So it would extend synapse, but not by *that* much, and you'd be stuck in one place...


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## NostromanNeckTie (Sep 3, 2013)

Truth, so you just put a synapse creature in each part 

Not to mention you can put Lictors in it for an oversized homing beacon.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

SilverTabby said:


> *blinks*
> 
> What rulebook is this coming from? The BRB has no terminology for 'auras'.
> They say treat those in bunkers as if they were in a dedicated transport for various things, and the dedicated transport section has nothing about area effects from passengers in it.
> ...


Right, we're talking about putting a Zoanthrope in a Fortress of Redemption to increase synapse coverage. There is no debate as to whether effects that give a benefit in a radius around the model ('auras') work in transport vehicles - there is precedent for this (the Standard of Devastation, from Codex: Dark Angels, also projects a 6" radius of effect, and that works from inside a building/transport vehicle). The question is - if a Zoanthrope is in the central tower of a Fortress of Redemption, does the Synapse range extend from the central tower or the whole building? I believe it extends only from the central tower as the Fortress of Redemption follows the rules for multi-part buildings, essentially making each area of the Fortress a separate structure. 

TL;DR: You are correct.

As such, there is little reason not to take a Bastion instead of a Fortress as the Bastion has a larger footprint than any individual section of the Fortress.

Lictors really, really want to be Infiltrating. Infiltrate + Homing Beacon on a resilient-enough chassis for that price is brilliant.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

I should possibly look into structures more. I played with an Aegis defense line last night (using Sisters), and had we been on a smaller table I think it would have worked marvellously. I haven't found any rules in the 'Nid codex saying they can't use fortfications or fire them (hell, I have spare Tyrannofex guns I can convert to be the equivalent of a Quad-gun), so it may be time to invest...

Or just stick to my usual routine of Charge And Eat Everything. Who needs guns? Unless there's one I can fire my Carnifexes out of. That would be cooool...


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Aegis Line positioned up against your table half, and then shove Dakkafexes up against it. 4+ cover is really, really nice on them.


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## Anubite (Feb 21, 2011)

Lol i had 2 games so far with new nyds, using similar set ups i used before. ermm - mystic spores and doom. and atm his ig/demon combo so far is 2-0 up in one game me only causing 4 wounds lol

So my first and second impression is that with out getting the new models you really dont stand a chance. I have found a few ways that might work but again because its not something i ever used before i will be forced to spend a fortune.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Bastion w/Aegis lines added, with maybe Bioelectric Fields (power fields) and an AA Venom cannon (Icarus Lascannon) is a good build for the Bugs. Also gives you an interceptor Str:9 ap:2 weapon with skyfire to help out the Hive Crones.


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## Squire (Jan 15, 2013)

After the initial gnashing of teeth I'm not too disappointed with the new codex. There's a lot of disappointing shit in there but lots of good stuff I'll be taking advantage of, like: mixed weapons in units (hidden sword/lash in warrior unit); cheaper fexes; venomthropes giving shrouded; cheaper flyrant, biovores and zoans; thorax swarms for tervigons etc.

I'll never take codex rumours seriously again though. Practically none of them turned out to be true, and I suspect those were just a fluke


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

The Dataslate system may have changed the early idea of an extra FOC. With the Formations, we essentially GOT the extra slots from there. AFter all, three Hive Crones, thirty gargoyles, and 18 spore mines with full movement in one army seems pretty good to me.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

With the Dataslates - are they just Apocalypse formations (so usable in bigger games only) or actually alternate FOCs for general use?


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## iamtheeviltwin (Nov 12, 2012)

These particular dataslates from the Vanguard are usable at any point level of 40k. They just use an apocalypse-style formation system to give a small advantage when you field models in a certain manner. They also are treated as allies, but do not conform (nor take up) traditional FoC.

I think all the new dataslates currently available are normal 40k approved. There may be a few Apoc only ones, but these Vanguard formations are not it.


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