# Another GW victim



## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

It is a sad day when a another long term veteran has to give up on his hobby, but that is what has happened to me. GW prices has forced me out of the one true hobby I love.

Thank you GW for killing off another veteran. For me to continue would mean spending 10 thousand Aussie Dollars and more just to keep up.

However i'll continue to add my two cents worth from time to time.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Can I have your stuff?


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

^ Beat me to it. 

Can I have what he doesn't get?


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## Woodzee316 (Sep 11, 2010)

I feel your pain. I want to support my local bricks and mortar store as I really like the manager a great friendly person, and I play at the store whenever I get the chance. but when for instance the new space marine codex cost $90au I brought mine online from England for $70au posted. the only things I can remember purchasing in store were paints and thousand sons upgrade packs. 

it is just to expensive to buy the stuff from GW. e-bay is how I've managed to stay in the hobby competitively.


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## alt-f4 (May 18, 2015)

What do you absolutely need for a 10K australian dollars cost ?

As a "veteran", I came back into the hobby for less than 1/10 of that cost spread upon 6 months (plus what I had in stock, of course ... prices from GW seem more a difficulty for incoming players to me) ...


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## Woodzee316 (Sep 11, 2010)

I can understand what the OP is saying, if you compare the cost of items in AU$ (or even worse the NZ$) to those of the rest of the world you would see the cost of the hobby gets very expensive paying the GW prices.
for example
$90 Space Marine codex (to update to the latest)
now if you take the two demi company formation for free transports so, $55 for each additional rhino, razorback or drop pod. 
and you have spare points left over because you aren't paying for transports so you might need to add some more Marines so $65 for a tac space marine squad so it adds up fast .

maybe $10000 is a bit dramatic but you get the picture.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Jezlad said:


> Dramatic Goodbye Threads and Posts will not be tolerated. Anyone that attempts to kick up a fuss with a childish throw the teddy in the corner leaving thread will be immediately banned from the site. If you want to leave do so - with our blessings. Don't advertise the fact you're doing the off. If the time comes jog on quietly - posting a thread about it will be the last thing you do on the site.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

MidnightSun said:


> Originally Posted by Jezlad View Post Dramatic Goodbye Threads and Posts will not be tolerated. Anyone that attempts to kick up a fuss with a childish throw the teddy in the corner leaving thread will be immediately banned from the site. If you want to leave do so - with our blessings. Don't advertise the fact you're doing the off. If the time comes jog on quietly - posting a thread about it will be the last thing you do on the site.


Baam, headshot!


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

His whine is more of the same thing he has been ranting about for years now. I honestly thought he stopped playing long ago. If I had thought it was a 'quiting HO thread' I would have curb stomped it.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Yea, goodbye forum is bad, goodbye hobby is okay but this is really just goodbye gw. 

And I can completely see where he's coming from. Prices here are getting beyond ridiculous. I remember when a tyrant was $60au and now they are over a hundred. 

I've been treating this like a long term hobby, and it helps but it does feel like I'm not really participating at times.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Woodzee316 said:


> ...it is just to expensive to buy the stuff from GW. e-bay is how I've managed to stay in the hobby competitively.


Given the robustness of the second hand and knock-off market I don't see how or why anyone pays retail price for GW stuff. Unless maybe one is too young to have their own eBay/PayPal account. 

If I buy a new product on the second-hand market below RRP I'm not screwing GW. It was already purchased from GW and in circulation. True, GW don't make a retail sale but they aren't guaranteed that anyway. In my area if I bought new it would be from a FLGS who would (like an eBay seller) have paid wholesale somewhere along the way. 

If I were buying sometime used via eBay GW wouldn't have benefited anyway. Of course, they would obviously rather I buy new from them. 

It's all supply and demand. If the demand is substantial but the market is unwilling to bear the prices replacement markets will be created to meet the demand.

P.s. @Achaylus72 what would go into that 10kAu that you mentioned? I dune really have time to play anymore but I still try to keep up on rules incase I somehow find the time (wishful thinking!) but I do still collect here and there. Though my last purchase was a long oop armorcast daemon engine and not anything new or current.


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## alt-f4 (May 18, 2015)

Woodzee316 said:


> I can understand what the OP is saying, if you compare the cost of items in AU$ (or even worse the NZ$) to those of the rest of the world you would see the cost of the hobby gets very expensive paying the GW prices.
> for example
> $90 Space Marine codex (to update to the latest)
> now if you take the two demi company formation for free transports so, $55 for each additional rhino, razorback or drop pod.
> ...


 I didn't know that prices for AU or NZ were higher than for Europe. Nevertheless, a demi-company is not a requirement to get into the hobby (modelling, painting and playing). A veteran probably has the base models for 1 to 3 armies that could easily be completed according to the new codices and with the help of second hand market. 

A 10K australian dollars (a little more than 6.2K euros) amount represents, for me, 3 brand new complete armies bought at full price from GW, with a delay of months (at least) before being able to field them upon table after modelling/painting. Maybe such costs are motivated by an Apocalypse meta, or by sending the models to professional studios for painting, or something like that ? The question I would ask myself is : isn't there any other way to go on with a hobby I love without spending so much money in it ? 

Apart from that, two things about GW :

- GW products have never been cheap, but have not increased far more than common products (like beer or fries, to compare with basic Belgian food and drinks ) in 20 years (about the double),

- GW is (apparently for me) still GW, which is somehow a performance compared with the other game companies that existed 20 years ago. What would 40K be today if it had been bought by Hasbro or Disney ?


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## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

Erm okay.............

Ebay? Thats a thing ya know. There are plenty of ways to stay in the hobby without buying from GW direct. Plus, if you've already been in the hobby is it really that expensive? Sure you need to buy the new Rulebook and Codex that comes out but thats about it, not like you're forced to buy all the new stuff each go around. Hell alot of these 7th ed updates are just releasing updates, I think Orks were the only army to get a slew of new models with their new book, all the others just got a book and some boxes ghot redone. If anything its more expensive to get into as a new player, but if you're a 'Veteran' then the cost shouldnt be as bad as you're making out unless your netlistting stuff every few months.

Also, on another note, look at FW if you want to stay in the hobby, it's my understanding thats one of the reasons that Age of Darkness/30k has taken off they way it has in Australia, is because the price is about the same as buying 40k from GW all in all.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Man, I sure do like fast cars, but frankly Lamborghini has priced their products way too high - I just can't afford their ridiculous prices.

In other news, people continued to be baffled by the fact that you pay a _shitload_ for luxury products.

My advice, honestly? Play Age of Sigmar, where you need free rules and no minimum size army, or Infinity or something else closer to your price range. I've never understood why 40k seems to have a tonne of people saying 'I really like it, but I can't afford it'; I mean, that's a refrain heard universally, but only the 40k community seems to get hung up on it as a valid complaint. I'd love to stay at the Savoy every night (hell, I'd love to stay there for one night), but I don't complain about not being able to.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

the victim complex is strong in this one.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> ...I've never understood why 40k seems to have a tonne of people saying 'I really like it, but I can't afford it'; I mean, that's a refrain heard universally, but only the 40k community seems to get hung up on it as a valid complaint....


I can't speak for the OP, but I think what sets 40k apart is the difference between the perceived value of the product and the cost of the raw materials. 

As an example jewelry is a luxury item but the high cost of gold and silver heavily influence the retail price. Cars are not too dissimilar. The actual production cost of a Lamborghini (e.g. hand made Italian luxury sports car) is really high. 

I don't know what GW's actual production costs are but the perception of the cost of producing plastic miniatures is pretty far away from the RRP. I say that even if the real cost of designing models, creating molds, buying raw materials, man hours for casting control, packaging, and shipping completely balance out.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

This has all been discussed and told to the OP in the past on the site. Every year he predicts GW will fail when the profit numbers come out. I wouldn't put much effort into the thread ppl.


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

People still buy stuff for GW???? I haven't bought anything from GW in about 10 years. My local store gives me 20% of all GW stuff to start but as a veteran I buy stuff off ebay. I also sell my old or wanted models on Ebay and then buy the stuff I want. I use swap sites like bartertown to trade away old models or models I don't want for stuff I do want. There are other sites craigslist,offer up, etc... that people are selling whole armies for cheap. Power gamers especially are quick to sell their old armies and get the newest latest and greatest. 

I agree with ALT-f4 that new players probably have a harder time than veterans in this hobby. I wouldn't call yourself a victim of GW just less creative than some. Your only a victim if you want to be one. I choose not to so I don't buy from GW. I can't see buying from them in the future either and I plan to be in the hobby a lot more. So even these leaving GW threads are kind of annoying. You don't like GW prices find another way to buy their models. Simple as that and enjoy the hobby.


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## SonofVulkan (Apr 14, 2010)

I can understand the OP's frustration. Trying to keep up with all the latest releases can sometimes feel you are just treading water. Looking for cheaper alternatives as people have suggested e-bay, flgs, etc is the way forward.

Or maybe just download the Age of Sigmar rules pick up a unit of troops and maybe a hero and get playing again.

I suppose it all depends why you are in the hobby. Model making, painting, army building or gaming?


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

SonofVulkan said:


> Trying to keep up with all the latest releases can sometimes feel you are just treading water.


Only if you're collecting every army, in both systems.

Most only have one, maybe two armies, so while I agree that compared to other systems, the GW brand is horribly expensive and desperately poor value for money, but if you are a dedicated player it should be reasonably easy to keep up with with whatever army you're collecting, as even with the accelerated release of codexes any given army only has new releases every couple of years.


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

Same ol' garbage quality posts from the OP. Most of what OP posts is the same kind of crap.


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

Kreuger said:


> The actual production cost of a Lamborghini (e.g. hand made Italian luxury sports car) is really high.
> .


Sorry Krueger but for reference Lamborghini is Spanish:grin::grin:

And as stated already, no sympathy found here! As for "keeping up with the Jones" that has been 40k since second edition.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

DaisyDuke said:


> Sorry Krueger but for reference Lamborghini is Spanish:grin::grin:
> 
> And as stated already, no sympathy found here! As for "keeping up with the Jones" that has been 40k since second edition.


It's late so I don't know if you're just messing with me it not. Unless I'm missing something curious like most Toyotas sold in the USA are assembled or manufactured in the USA while American cars are often made in Canada or Mexico, Lamborghini is _definitely_ an Italian brand. Granted it's apparently owned by Volkswagen now.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Lamborghini:
Founder: Ferruccio Lamborghini

Founded: maggio 1963, Sant'Agata Bolognese
Spanish. Ah.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Anyone else notice the preoccupation with examples going on here? Where a car is made is not the point @Kreuger was making. A lot of high end things have high end production costs, like expensive cars. Plastic models, on the other hand, I mean....really. How high can production costs be when you count in the quantity manufactured?

I thought this was the thread where the OP doled out the stuff he has that reminds him of GW, you know, like when people break up and purge all that crap that reminds them of their former spouse. Lets get back to free stuff from a deserter, people!!


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

ntaw said:


> ...I thought this was the thread where the OP doled out the GW stuff he hates now anyway. Lets get back to free stuff from a deserter people!!


Right-O!

*Hobby vultures, assemble! *


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## LordOfTheWolves (May 28, 2015)

Kreuger said:


> *Hobby vultures, assemble! *


DIVE!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBe1hwg7V-M


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

The point I tried to put across was that with the average cost of new product hitting between $90Au to $100Au puts me out of the hobby, with a enforced move to a more expensive place and a loan repayments I can have a restricted budget, and one of those things I can no longer continue as a GW Collector. I can say I should have explained myself better, never the less even without the enforced move, I could not continue within the hobby anymore. Pricecreep forced my hand.

 I am not the only person that has had to make that decision, there are thousands that have had to make that ultimate decision.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Einherjar667 said:


> Same ol' garbage quality posts from the OP. Most of what OP posts is the same kind of crap.



Ok i'll call you out, what the hell did I do to you for your comments to be so hateful, really I'd like to know, considering that when we first posting in relation to each other it was cordial and polite, and respectful. then one day you decided to turn on me, and for the life of me I have no idea why you turned on me.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Or you could just let it go and move on. If that kind of discussion is really important it is probably better taken to PM.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Achaylus72 said:


> ...I can say I should have explained myself better, never the less even without the enforced move, I could not continue within the hobby anymore. Pricecreep forced my hand.


Tone matters. 

The difference between moaning about GW being too expensive and stating objectively that your move and fixed income prevent you from participating in the hobby with new purchases changes the tone. 

I am sympathetic. I mostly buy from eBay these days. But moans almost never elicit sympathy.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Yeah, this has nothing to do with GW's _always_ high prices and everything to do with the OP's life being..well...life. I haven't bought a new-in-box model/kit for over a year due to similar reasons.


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## Goochman70 (Jan 10, 2012)

ntaw said:


> Yeah, this has nothing to do with GW's _always_ high prices and everything to do with the OP's life being..well...life. I haven't bought a new-in-box model/kit for over a year due to similar reasons.


In over a year? Try since '09 I've been trading, buying, selling, everything, online. 
Second hand and from some nefarious customers and proud of it. 

But I'll never quit my passion for 30/40K, even though I haven't played in over 3yrs but that's due to medical care. But I do have all my books and currently I'm saving money to buy a Warlord. 

Brother G

Ps. I did say nefarious customers right?


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Goochman70 said:


> In over a year? Try since '09


I was just referencing the last year. My involvement in the hobby has spanned over the last 20+ years with various breaks, and almost all of my purchases have been second hand. Every now and again I'll end up with a NIB kit via those purchases but it's rare.

Keep up the good work!


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## Goochman70 (Jan 10, 2012)

ntaw said:


> I was just referencing the last year. My involvement in the hobby has spanned over the last 20+ years with various breaks, and almost all of my purchases have been second hand. Every now and again I'll end up with a NIB kit via those purchases but it's rare.
> 
> Keep up the good work!


Awesome, same here on the purchases. I've been in the hobby like you since '93.
So I guess I'm a 20+yrs veteran. Boy don't I miss the old days lol. 

Still have some of those RT minis somewhere in the house. But the most that I miss is the being able to go and get a decent game with a total stranger without turning into a nightmare. 
See, me, I'm still a fluffer, I'm not opposed to competition games but GW sorta leans more to that side than to a good old fashioned fluff game. 

Wow I think I got way of track. ......

Anyway, I like 30K more than 40K because I saw that everyone is pretty much on the level and can't get those Death Stars that I see that are one of the things that I think imho is taking the fun out of the hobby and/or the game for some people. 

Brother G


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Goochman70 said:


> See, me, I'm still a fluffer


You might want to rephrase that :laugh:


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## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

Tawa said:


> You might want to rephrase that :laugh:


Nah, that was defintly intended.


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## Goochman70 (Jan 10, 2012)

Fluffer, fluff, fluuff, fluffish, fluffericious? Awww hell lol, I have no clue, the thing is that I love the fact that I enjoy reading and playing with fluff inclined games armies than this, competition based armies that to be honest makes no sense. 
I've seen players mixing armies just because in the rules says it's ok but in the fluff those Marines wouldn't be caught dead fighting side by side with this supposed allies of convenience. 


I'm a strong believer that you have to take what you have and keep tweaking away until you get the best possible answer to your problem. That's using the noggin. And for the Emperors sake, empire forces needs to be mixed/allied only with Imperial Forces. That's the way it's supposed to be. 


Brother G


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Goochman70 said:


> I'm a strong believer that you have to take what you have and keep tweaking away until you get the best possible answer to your problem. That's using the noggin. And for the Emperors sake, empire forces needs to be mixed/allied only with Imperial Forces. That's the way it's supposed to be.


I'm so glad you know the fluff I wrote for my Marines allied with Dark Eldar better than I do.


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## Goochman70 (Jan 10, 2012)




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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Goochman70 said:


>


Clearly the Imperial forces should only be associating with Imperial forces bit.


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

The production costs to make an actualy box of minis is very little, GW staff discount apparently used to be that you paid for the weight of plastic used, and it would generally mean that a £20 box becomes 80p. The real production costs are making the moulds themselves, which cost thousands, its why not everything is made in plasctic as it simply won't make its money back, such as special characters, you will only ever need one of each. It's also why a lot of boxes now have the options to make several different units, as then only 1 mould needs to be made, but people will buy several of the same box to make a couple of different units they may want.


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

falcoso said:


> The production costs to make an actualy box of minis is very little, GW staff discount apparently used to be that you paid for the weight of plastic used, and it would generally mean that a £20 box becomes 80p. The real production costs are making the moulds themselves, which cost thousands, its why not everything is made in plasctic as it simply won't make its money back, such as special characters, you will only ever need one of each. It's also why a lot of boxes now have the options to make several different units, as then only 1 mould needs to be made, but people will buy several of the same box to make a couple of different units they may want.


Interesting. That clears up a lot of questions.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

falcoso said:


> The production costs to make an actualy box of minis is very little, GW staff discount apparently used to be that you paid for the weight of plastic used, and it would generally mean that a £20 box becomes 80p.


GW staff discount was nowhere near that sort of crazy. 
"Back in the day" it was roughly 75% off lead figures - if you went and got them yourself from HQ - and roughly 50% off plastics.

Now it's more along the lines of 50% off in-store stuff and around 20-26% off FW gear.


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## Goochman70 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hell, back in the day when I worked for GW we paid for the pieces by weight. 
Plastics where next to nothing and metal was really cheap. 
I can't tell you about FW because I really never heard of it until a couple of years later after I left the company. 

Brother G


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

^ a buddy of mine also paid by weight. Maybe it's a North American thing, @Tawa?


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## Battman (Nov 2, 2012)

Well just to throw my two cents in. 

GW games is certainly a luxury product, cost in comparison to demand should be lower but just isn't we can't really do anything about it. For whichever reasoning they have gone down that path, possibly looking to maintain profit margins or some thing of the like. 

Many a time pricing in Australia and New Zealand has been talked about and my two cents on the fact that the prices are exorbitant even more so than the already costly game. In my interpretation some products are just having freight and tax added then converted into the local dollars, which results in the pricing. But as said many times already in this thread and others if you cannot pay the pricing but still wish to play thing game find alternatives, second hand products, ebay, or heaven forbid third party re casters uke: or even other companies models. One that i have personally been getting right into is the old khromelch orks at a similar size and scale they work quite nicely and add a little variance to your pile of boys.

As to the staff discounts i find that quite interesting that at least at some stage they may have done payment in that method (by weight), I certainly think it is a bit of a double edge blade while staff got a good end of the deal it may have fueled the price gouging that followed. In my own experience with staff discounts one scheme that the company I work for (automotive parts sales) they work on a system of giving staff a basic trade discount such as between 15-25% GP on a product instead of the retail pricing scheme of 30-50% GP on products, which seems to be a reasonable system for keeping moral high. 

Though another thought which just came to mind in it was always probably an method for having staff paint more models for display, threfor hopefully selling more models unlike in my case automotive parts where the actual staff having the products doesn't help the company apart from movement of stock.

well that about all of my rambling, for the moment at least.


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## Goochman70 (Jan 10, 2012)

Well nowadays the hobby is for the player who wants to be in the hobby. Because there's a gazillion ways to get the figures that you need from sources other than GW and/or FW, same products, just a bit of extra flash to trim but good enough. 
And way cheaper, wich is the main reason it is there.
So if you are complaining like a biaitch, well don't. There's no reason why. 

There are plenty of other ways to get your plastic fix and stay in the hobby. 


Am I evil, yeah maybe I am, after so many years in the hobby, I've survived 3 tours in combat zones getting shoot at., explosions, car bombs, rpg's, etc. ....
Great vacation times. After that you get really cynical. 

I've dedicated my time to the game and making fluff armies all imperial. 
All I have has been updated meticulously but is up to par to 7th edition (but the bases I'm still working on them) 

So the way I see it, there's no GW victim or victims, there's just malcontents that don't want to break the piggy bank and get the new toy because it costs too much, well do your research and find were can you get it cheaper. 
Take the gloves off, play dirty, play to win. 

Brother G


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Could well be a North American thing, but I don't know anybody that currently works for GW US :laugh:


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

*Gamers Only 20 Percent of Games Workshop's Customers

http://www.iii.co.uk/news-opinion/r...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

*


> It does not mention games. In conversation, I’m told that the word “Game” in Games Workshop encourages the misconception that games are its business, but that only about 20% of Games Workshop’s customers are gamers. The rest are modellers and collector.


So in short, they don't care about gamers. You don't make them enough money. It's all about people who want to buy a Titan and have it sitting in the corner of their room; or collect the entire Horus Primarch set and display them on their shelf.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

^ hit the butcher's nail on the head ya did.


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