# Word Bearer vs. Word Bearer



## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

I was just thinking that a great idea for a book would be to show the purge of the loyalist from the Word Bearers ranks. Erebus said while talking to Argel Tal after I5 in "Galaxy in Flames" that they did have to do a purge.

Talk about your forgotten wars. Neither side would want to acknowledge that it happened. The imperium would not want to say there was such a thing as a "Loyal Word Bearer", and the Word Bearers would never want to admit that the whole Legion did not convert to Chaos.

If I were to write that paticular part of the Heresy I would start it in 40k. Someone stumbling onto the story of the Loyalist Word Bearers, and as he/she is reading it everyone else is reading it with him/her.

The HH is not writen in first person, but I think with a book like that first person is the way to go.


----------



## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

I always imagined the purging of loyalists a bit like the purging of the Jedi by the clone army in Star Wars. Simultaneously across the galaxy at almost the same time, traitor marines turing on their loyalist brothers.


----------



## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Brother Subtle said:


> I always imagined the purging of loyalists a bit like the purging of the Jedi by the clone army in Star Wars. Simultaneously across the galaxy at almost the same time, traitor marines turing on their loyalist brothers.


According to Lorgar, Calth was in essence a purging of the WB ranks, a way to weed out the incompetent.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> According to Lorgar, Calth was in essence a purging of the WB ranks, a way to weed out the incompetent.


There were also purges within the Word Bearer's ranks prior to Calth and the Heresy. Those who were too far tainted by the "lies of the False Emperor." So in essence, we have a purge of those who were seemingly unwilling to betray the Emperor and then a purge of those too fanatical/incompetent at Calth - I wonder if Erebus and/or Kor Phaeron were included in that intended casualty list?


----------



## randian (Feb 26, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I wonder if Erebus and/or Kor Phaeron were included in that intended casualty list?





If I recall correctly, Lorgar admits as much in _Betrayer_


----------



## Vitarus (Apr 9, 2012)

*bump* Heh


----------



## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

Old post, but I started it so I will bite.

Argel Tal was close to being a loyalist in by saying to Kharn "Both sides are wrong". To date I can not think of any other traitor who truly despised The Ruinous Powers the way Argel Tal did (despite Raum). But in turn he knew 'the truth' of the Emperor's lies and had to carry that word to the rest of Humanity.

I think part of the reason Argel Tal was given so much power by the Chaos Gods is because he gave them power pack through his suffering.

Argel Tal aside. The purge of the Word Bearers (not Calth) of those who refused to believe that the Emperor wasn't a god deserves more attention. I could see any surviving Word Bearers being the catalyst of what becomes 40k.


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Brother Subtle said:


> I always imagined the purging of loyalists a bit like the purging of the Jedi by the clone army in Star Wars. Simultaneously across the galaxy at almost the same time, traitor marines turing on their loyalist brothers.


You know, the Star Wars portrayal of Palpatine was probably the most badass betrayal in Sci-Fi. Just thinking throw the show of how he was able to manipulate the government to give him more power because a few people abused their power.

Its quite curious in the Word Bearer's series as to their new purge. I'm still not exactly sure what kind of purge they are trying to do.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Zooey72 said:


> Old post, but I started it so I will bite.
> 
> Argel Tal was close to being a loyalist in by saying to Kharn "Both sides are wrong". To date I can not think of any other traitor who truly despised The Ruinous Powers the way Argel Tal did (despite Raum). But in turn he knew 'the truth' of the Emperor's lies and had to carry that word to the rest of Humanity.


You could probably say the same of Lorgar. He certainly seemed reluctant for decades (even up to and beyond Isstvan V) and was continually enticed by Erebus and Kor Phaeron. But I certainly wouldn't describe either (Lorgar or Argel Tal) as close to being a loyalist. 



ckcrawford said:


> Its quite curious in the Word Bearer's series as to their new purge. I'm still not exactly sure what kind of purge they are trying to do.


Do you mean the new novella _The Purge_? I'm curious too. We know that the Word Bearers purged their ranks (known as the Second Purge of the Brotherhood in Anthony Reynolds' series) of those who they deemed "too infected with the lies of the False Emperor" sometime in the 43 years between Monarchia and Isstvan V and then also committed a de-facto purge at Calth. 

I initially thought that the new novella _The Purge_ would cover the former, but now that it's apparently been revealed that the novella will be set in the Imperial Palace I'm not so sure. We also know that Sor Talgron features.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Sor Talgron is confirmed? I thought as much, is it in Betrayer perhaps, or the First Heretic that mentions he's been stationed in the Sol System?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Sor Talgron is confirmed? I thought as much, is it in Betrayer perhaps, or the First Heretic that mentions he's been stationed in the Sol System?


Yes, he's confirmed as the main character. Just did a quick search in both _Betrayer_ and _The First Heretic_ and he is not mentioned in either. I do seem to remember something about him being based in Sol though, _Collected Visions_ perhaps?

IIRC it's heavily implied he becomes The Warmonger as well.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Hmmm, Aurellian maybe? Could be Visions as well, I'm just sure it's somewhere. And I've not read the Word Bearers 40k novels, but I had heard he became the Warmonger, is it just implied in them or outright stated?


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Yes, he's confirmed as the main character. Just did a quick search in both Betrayer and The First Heretic and he is not mentioned in either. I do seem to remember something about him being based in Sol though, Collected Visions perhaps?
> 
> IIRC it's heavily implied he becomes The Warmonger as well.


i saw it on Warhammer Wiki but wasn't sure if they had retconned that too


----------



## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> You could probably say the same of Lorgar. He certainly seemed reluctant for decades (even up to and beyond Isstvan V) and was continually enticed by Erebus and Kor Phaeron. But I certainly wouldn't describe either (Lorgar or Argel Tal) as close to being a loyalist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have no doubt that Lorgar and Argel Tal were corrupted, but that wasn't my point. The fact that they hesitated showed that even the Divine Word Bearers had doubts about chaos. 200 years of "The Emperor is god" probably stuck with a good deal of the Word Bearers despite Lorgar turning. In their mind Lorgar may have been an angel, but the Emperor is god... and god was testing them.

Given how HH turns into 40k you would almost have to believe that a large influence on post Heresy Imperium was by loyalist Word Bearers. The Imperium bible was written by Lorgar after all.


----------



## Vitarus (Apr 9, 2012)

BTW, I found this thread while looking for a WB Omnibus thread. I saw the ebook listed at BL the other day, in the New Release section for July. It mentioned Torment being a part of it. Then the listing was gone.

EDIT: And it's back.
http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/word-bearers-omnibus-ebook.html


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> but I had heard he became the Warmonger, is it just implied in them or outright stated?


Officially confirmed on the BL website by the looks:



> Sor Talgron
> 
> Captain of the 34th Grand Company of Word Bearers, Sor Talgron was one of several Word Bearers stationed on Terra itself during the Great Crusade. His placement was no accident and was part of a wider scheme by the XVII Legion to undermine the defences of the Imperial Palace, once Horus's treachery was revealed.
> 
> Sor Talgron was crippled during the Horus Heresy, and in the 41st Millennium, he now marches to war encased in the life preserving armoured bulk of the Dreadnought ‘Warmonger’.


----------

