# avoiding horus heresy spoilers?



## Insurance (Sep 8, 2010)

hey everyone,

i'm brand new to the entire 40k universe and i have a question to ask. i'll point out that i've never played the tabletop game or the video games. 

about three months ago a buddy of mine recommended i pick up horus rising. i proceeded to inhale every book. two weeks ago i finished nemesis. obviously i'm hooked on the horus heresy. 

here is my dilemma. while i wait for the first heretic to be released, i want to read other 40k novels. following my friends advice, i read the eisenhorn trilogy. in doing so, i noticed the reference to the golden throne. so i googled it and "bam" i read a major spoiler for the end of the horus heresy series. the same thing happened when i skimmed the back cover of the blood angels omnibus which mentions "the reincarnation of sanguinius". now i more or less know the fate of the emperor and one of the primarchs. 

so now i'm trying to figure out what i can read that will not spoil the rest of the horus heresy series for me. i'm currently reading the ciaphas cain omnibus. the ravenor omnibus is probably my next choice. i guess i'm looking for advice on books to avoid horus heresy spoilers. or should i embrace the spoilers since the horus heresy series appears to have a long ways to go?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Embrace the spoilers.

If you were a 40k fan prior to the HH series then you would know what happens at the end of the Heresy and in the following 10,000 years. I actually think the HH series is written with this in mind, for example - the opening line of _Horus Rising_:

_'I was there, the day Horus slew the Emperor...'_ (now of course it isn't actually referring to 'the' Emperor, but the reference is there and was a fantastic way to kickstart the entire series).

I'll even go as far as to say that without knowing at least the basics of the 40k background, you would have missed hell of a lot of references from the HH books.

It'll be very hard to find any BL novel set in 40k without having the ending of the HH spoiled in some way.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

My advice is- Don't read anything from BL's 40k section that isn't set in the Horus Heresy, though of course 2 of the biggest 'spoilers' are the Emperor's maiming and Primarch death you've discovered.

Just stay away from Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine novels if you do feel the need to read BL 40k.

Though of course characters- like Lucius, Abaddon, and Kharne- take on an entirely new flavour if you read some of 40k and the Codices.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Alternatively, while you wait for more Heresy novels to come out, give the fantasy books a read. Absolutely no way to have more of the Heresy spoiled for you through those books.

However, personally I have always felt that the Heresy series serves more to detail the events of the Horus Heresy. To bring reasons to the fore, illuminate certain mysteries, and expand upon the tragedies that occurred. 


Like Child-of-the-Emperor, I would say embrace the spoilers you might get in the 40k novels. Yes some things may not be as surprising when you read them (there is an Iron Hand novel, I'm sure if you read that it would make mention of the Drop-site Massacre.) But after ten thousand years, the why, the very detail behind these events, has long since eroded or been distorted to the point where you cannot truly be certain of what the honest truth is. (Using the Iron Hands and the Massacre, I believe that in current 40k they blame others for what happened to them, other loyalists, but they were the ones who lead the loyal legions into the trap.)


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Yeah, theres are so many refrences in the HH books that you will only get if you already know about the heresy and current 40k. Alot of the fluff for the Heresy before was vague at best, and is now being established in the books.

One of the best instances i can think of being Garro and the Eisenstein. Before the HH novels the info on Garro was sketchy, we knew he was a death guard and that he escaped on a ship called the Eisenstein from Istvaan to warn the Emperor or Horus betrayal and not much more than that. So in Galaxy in Flames when it first mentions Garro on the meeting on the vengeful spirit my mind did a little summersault. And then when Qruze and co are escaping and talking with the then unknown ship i was still wondering how or if they will escape, then when you here the following:

"Then you are welcome on my ship Iacton Qruze"
"And who are you?"
"I am Captain Nathaniel Garro of the _Eisenstein_"

You know they are going to make it, the significane of that last sentence and what it means. I don't know about anyone else but it probably goes down as my favourite quote from any book i've ever read.

Almost all the books end with a mention of something you would get if you knew the material previous, examples being
- Horus at the end of Horus Rising mentioning they are going to Davin, you know this is where he falls.
- At the end of False Gods him saying his trap will be made in the Istvaan system, again you knew what that meant for the loyalists.
- Ahriman mentioning the Rubric at the end of Thousand Sons, we know what that means
- Magnus saying they are going to Nikea, we all knew how that would end from the very mention of the planets name
- All the traitor characters we knew the names of before, Kharn, Abaddon, Lucius, Typhus, Ahriman, all the traitor primarchs, mostly all start off as likeable but we know where it will end
- Caliban and Luther
- Almost ALL the loyalist talk and jokes about astartes fighting astartes, the imperium worshiping the emperor as a god, falling into ruin, etc etc etc
- The deaths guards legendary resistance to toxins/poisons etc will play a very large roll

There are so, so many more i couldnt even list all of them. Like CofE said im sure the entire series is written with the assumption and chance you already know all there was to know about the heresy before hand. Makes the books even better for me


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

As the other heretics have said, just embrace the spoilers. There have been plenty of information in the books that wouldn't essentially ruin the books for you. If you are new to 40k its kind of hard to ignore the basic information already behind the heresy. Though I don't know what the heretics think, but you might want to ignore _Collected Visions_. I feel that the book is very one sided and could ruin the out look in future Heresy Novels including the contradictions it may have. 

But in this site its fairly common to see spoilers from everything. I'm going to have to start reminding myself to write the spoiler warnings, lol I often forget. If you want to learn more about the Heresy while waiting, and essentially embrace the spoilers. The audios are alright, Raven's Flight was the best audio I thought so far. Lightning Tower and the other one that comes with it is also pretty cool.


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## Insurance (Sep 8, 2010)

i really appreciate all of these quick responses. i guess my next question would be what should i read to fully understand the horus heresy references and everything else that is going on 10,000 years later? i'm very interested in all the "fluff", so should i read the codexs for the different armies even though i don't play the tabletop game? again any advice would be appreciated.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Well i'm not sure where you should start really as its scattered all over the place. My knowledge of the Heresy, Primarchs and Legions was gathered over years of different codex, white dwarf entrys, other books etc. Lexicanum.com is a good database of 40k fluff in general, all the key points of the heresy can be found out from there. Read the original 20 astartes legions pages, the individual primarchs, the emperor, the horus heresy page etc etc. 

All depends on how much you want to embrace the spoilers really


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Insurance said:


> i really appreciate all of these quick responses. i guess my next question would be what should i read to fully understand the horus heresy references and everything else that is going on 10,000 years later? i'm very interested in all the "fluff", so should i read the codexs for the different armies even though i don't play the tabletop game? again any advice would be appreciated.


Definitley, though they are quite expensive. However, if your not playing the game, then I think you'll be alright. :grin:. I quit playing the game a while back but the codexes have really helped me understand the 40k universe. I don't know how the other heretics feel, but though I have a lot of the loyalist codexes, I don't really like the fluff inside. Much of it is fluff I already know. But thats my take. I much prefer the other codexes, especially the chaos, and daemons of chaos codex. _Soul Hunter_ has some good fluff on what happened to Konrad Curze post heresy.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Insurance said:


> i really appreciate all of these quick responses. i guess my next question would be what should i read to fully understand the horus heresy references and everything else that is going on 10,000 years later?


Consider books from the perspective of the traitor legions, who have been fighting those last ten thousand years unlike the loyalist chapters of which all but one of the marines from that age are gone. (Well one marine plus one wolf company, but you get the point.)

Novels like Lord of the Night, Storm of Iron, the Word Bearers trilogy, Soul Hunter; even consider the Dark Angel novel Angels of Darkness because a large chunk of the book deals with the conflicting viewpoints of a marine who was present during the great crusade and fall of Caliban, and a marine who's knowledge of those events is biased and skewed by ten thousand years of fighting and hatred.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Insurance said:


> i really appreciate all of these quick responses. i guess my next question would be what should i read to fully understand the horus heresy references and everything else that is going on 10,000 years later? i'm very interested in all the "fluff", so should i read the codexs for the different armies even though i don't play the tabletop game? again any advice would be appreciated.


Contrary to _CK_, I would actually advise getting hold of a copy of the _Collective Visions_ (link). It gives a great overview of the entire Heresy (aswell as some fantastic artwork), which the HH novel series is establishing upon. Other than that as _darkreever_ said some of the Chaos Astartes novels and series help shed light on the consequences of the Heresy and are all fantastic reads. Most notably: _Soul Hunter_, _Lord of the Night_, _Storm of Iron_ and the Word Bearers series (_Dark Apostle_, _Dark Disciple_, and _Dark Creed_).

Before you do anything though I would get to know the primary and basic background of 40k. Lexicanum is probably a good starting point for this (although be wary as its a fan-edited site, so a lot of things on their are biased or even sometimes just complete fabrication).

Heres some links which may help to start you off:
Abaddon the Despoiler.
The Emperor.
Horus.
The Primarchs.
The Horus Heresy.
The Imperium.
Astartes Legion.

Also, have a browse around our 40k Fluff forums here on Heresy, you will likely pick up a fair bit of knowledge there. Hope this helps


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## CaptainLoken (May 13, 2009)

The best bit in the HH series for me is finding out about the characters and how they fell or got to where they are now. 
Being a fan from the mid 90's and reading fluff from earlier editions of rule books and so on, So my prior knowledge about Horus and his fate and all his brothers and members of the chaos legions of the time and that are still kicking about in the current time line. Just made it so much better as for years I knew about these characters but not how they fell or died.

For example Lucius the eternal one model i have always loved and loved his background then to find out how he got to the path to where he is now is just awesome.


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## Insurance (Sep 8, 2010)

again thank you all for this information. i've definitely got alot of material to absorb. i just ordered a used copy of collective visions and am skimming through the lexicanum website. i also found a site that has scanned copies of the codexs.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

It must be an interesting and a fairly unique experience to read the Horus Heresy novels with limited to no pre-knowledge of the events they cover.

It's difficult to tackle any 40k novel without gaining unwanted spoilers.

I know from some of your other comments that you are softening to the idea of reading the spoilers.

As previously mentioned 'Collected Visions' is a great book in relation to the Heresy as a whole.

The big hardcover rulebook has pages and pages of fluff that, whilst not as detailed as that found in the codices, will give a broad understanding of the 40k universe.

The novels and collected short stories are a minefield if you are trying to avoid spoilers, but on the other hand many references made in the 40k novels may not have any context (and therefore not actually spoil your Horus Heresy reading).


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## Insurance (Sep 8, 2010)

aside from the first three horus heresy novels, i thought fulgrim was the best read. now that i've read up on slaanesh, i understand why the emperor's children had that "wicked" orgy. it all makes sense now. :crazy:


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

stay away from lexicanum.com, if your trying to avoid spoilers.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Definitely try and get your hands (or at least your eyes) on a copy of the Chaos Space Marine Codex.

I know others that have started their relationship with 40k with the HH series, so you're not alone there. I wonder, at times, myself, how it would be to be immersed in all the set-up without knowing the outcome...


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

It would be far more interesting, that is for sure.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

Aye agreed.

I sorta wish i read the HH books before i knew about the 40kverse.

But then i suppose certain referances that are quite critical to the story line would go over your head.

HH is like the pulp fiction of books, timeline is allover the place!


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## Insurance (Sep 8, 2010)

well i bit the bullet and embraced the spoilers. i read the collected visions and skipped a few hours of sleep surfing the lexicanum. i'm now on my third cup of "recaf". i was worried they would ruin my interest in reading the future horus heresy novels, but it did just the opposite. i would actually say i'm even more excited for them.

have there been any announcements on when we will see a horus heresy novel dedicated to sanguinius and the blood angels? are the other blood angel novels worth reading?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Insurance said:


> well i bit the bullet and embraced the spoilers. i read the collected visions and skipped a few hours of sleep surfing the lexicanum. i'm now on my third cup of "recaf". i was worried they would ruin my interest in reading the future horus heresy novels, but it did just the opposite. i would actually say i'm even more excited for them.


Nice to hear. 



Insurance said:


> have there been any announcements on when we will see a horus heresy novel dedicated to sanguinius and the blood angels?


James Swallow is tackling Sanguinius and the Blood Angels throughout the Signus Cluster ambush (as seen in the _Collected Visions_) as a Heresy novel. The working title is _Fear to Tread_, as in the phrase 'Where angels _Fear to Tread_...' - Will either be a late 2011 or 2012 release though.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

This year has been busy with the HH books, dunno if its me but alot more have come out this year than previous?


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Just three--_A Thousand Sons_, _Nemesis_ and _The First Heretic_ (as well as an audio book or two).


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