# Plasma Spam????



## hcordes (Sep 23, 2010)

I am starting a new Dark Angels successor army, Angels of Redemption.... but that's not really the point.... 
I want to stick to Dark Angels fluff/cannon as much as i can, i like fluffy armies. In lots of Art work especially in the DA codex, there are lots and lots of DA with some sort of Plasma weapon.
As a player i don't really use too many plasma weapons... at all. 

For those you out there that have had more experience in this re-guard.... Is it worth taking Plasma Spam? Pistols for my sergs, cannons for hvy weapons, guns for assault weapons, etc, etc??


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## Flame80010 (Dec 2, 2009)

Plasma is the bridge between Melta is Bolter

personaly i love plasma-spam

it can handle transports the TEQ's with ease, but struggles when you get into things like LR's and Liths

Plasma spam is always a good viable option though :3

just be careful about gets hot...


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## hcordes (Sep 23, 2010)

Flame80010 said:


> just be careful about gets hot...


this being the _one_ thing that makes me hesitate because i have a _*BAD*_ habit of killing my own guys lol generally because i break mathhammer down... by rolling way below average.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I like Plasma Cannons and Twin Link Plasma for my Oblits. Its the perfect MEQ/TEQ/MC killer around. But unless your up against alot of Orks, Nids, or Daemons, I would add a Melta Squad or too for those Mech heavy armies of 5th.


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## Flame80010 (Dec 2, 2009)

well atleast you get armor saves agaist it XD

eventualy it will work

also if you can get FNP it will greatly help not killing yourself


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## hcordes (Sep 23, 2010)

Flame80010 said:


> well atleast you get armor saves agaist it XD
> 
> eventualy it will work
> 
> also if you can get FNP it will greatly help not killing yourself


True... but i don't think there is anything in any (loyalist) Space Marine book that gives anyone FNP..... unless you know something i do not???


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## hcordes (Sep 23, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> I like Plasma Cannons and Twin Link Plasma for my Oblits. Its the perfect MEQ/TEQ/MC killer around. But unless your up against alot of Orks, Nids, or Daemons, I would add a Melta Squad or too for those Mech heavy armies of 5th.


yeah, i love Melta, it makes me happy when things go squish and tanks turn into liquid. But for this army i want to try out something new lol. but yes a multi-melta here and a melta gun or two there are definitely worth it.


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## Flame80010 (Dec 2, 2009)

hcordes said:


> True... but i don't think there is anything in any (loyalist) Space Marine book that gives anyone FNP..... unless you know something i do not???


well if you use a blood angle codex you can... but i assume your not going to do that XD

i was just making the point :3


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## hcordes (Sep 23, 2010)

Flame80010 said:


> well if you use a blood angle codex you can... but i assume your not going to do that XD
> 
> i was just making the point :3


oh right... _*that*_ pile of cheese lol, no.... Angels of Redemption are a DA chapter lol.
I will keep that in mind though, i will eventually do a BA successor chapter. I hit a road block with that one though, i wanted to do Lamentors since they are a BA successor AND part of the "cursed 21st" but it specifically says in their fluff they do not suffer from the black rage.


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## Flame80010 (Dec 2, 2009)

hcordes said:


> oh right... _*that*_ pile of cheese lol, no.... Angels of Redemption are a DA chapter lol.
> I will keep that in mind though, i will eventually do a BA successor chapter. I hit a road block with that one though, i wanted to do Lamentors since they are a BA successor AND part of the "cursed 21st" but it specifically says in their fluff they do not suffer from the black rage.


oook... ima pretend i know what that means... (i know next to nothing about fluff o.o)

why dont you just use the DA codex o.o?

i think their assult squads get melta bombs 

and they have a Vehical that can score by itself


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## hcordes (Sep 23, 2010)

Flame80010 said:


> oook... ima pretend i know what that means... (i know next to nothing about fluff o.o)
> 
> why dont you just use the DA codex o.o?
> 
> ...


man the fluffy bits are where it is at!! lol, i got into 40k because i just started reading all the back stories lol. Basically if a paint something up as a DA i will use DA codex, thats why i wont use the BA codex with my Ultramarines, even though there is all that "cool" new stuff in it lol.

basically what you see is what you get, if you see me deploy a DA army... i am using the DA codex.


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## lsarofeen (Jul 19, 2010)

you guys are some quoting mofo's. 

anyway i saw one question i can answer. not in regards to DA, but Codex Marines have the command squad option that contains an apothecary who give the squad fnp. gg, i win. 

i use some plasma but not to much as i feel she's a sharp mistress to caress. it makes me love her even more.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I don't really like "plasma spam" with all plasma weapons. The only plasma weapons I really use are plasma guns because they are the most reliable/effective. Reliable in that you don't scatter and effective because in twelve inches you'll get two shots instead of one pistol shot. 

As such they are pretty effective because about half the armies out their are astartes armies. So they work really well. Plasma guns do have their uses because they can potentially do double the damage that melta guns can do... to infantry units anyways. But more often than most, whenever I see people miss they often miss the armor roll and get ones, they often get a failed armor save as well. Though statistically that really shouldn't be, but maybe thats just in my heck of the woods.


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## hcordes (Sep 23, 2010)

lsarofeen said:


> you guys are some quoting mofo's.
> 
> anyway i saw one question i can answer. not in regards to DA, but Codex Marines have the command squad option that contains an apothecary who give the squad fnp. gg, i win.
> 
> i use some plasma but not to much as i feel she's a sharp mistress to caress. it makes me love her even more.


I feel its needed to quote someone so everyone involved know exactly what i am responding too lol, less confusing that way.

You are correct... Apothecary in command squad, i had to double check that myself. I honestly have not used an actual command squad since 4th edition! So yes... +1 to you :so_happy:

Just to cover my bases, i double checked the Apoth in the DA codex.... unfortunately there is no FNP.


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## hcordes (Sep 23, 2010)

ckcrawford said:


> I don't really like "plasma spam" with all plasma weapons. The only plasma weapons I really use are plasma guns because they are the most reliable/effective. Reliable in that you don't scatter and effective because in twelve inches you'll get two shots instead of one pistol shot.
> 
> As such they are pretty effective because about half the armies out their are astartes armies. So they work really well. Plasma guns do have their uses because they can potentially do double the damage that melta guns can do... to infantry units anyways. But more often than most, whenever I see people miss they often miss the armor roll and get ones, they often get a failed armor save as well. Though statistically that really shouldn't be, but maybe thats just in my heck of the woods.


valid logic, i have already completed a plasma cannon though lol, so there will be at least one in this army. I may stick to the guns though, thanks for the thoughts!


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

hcordes said:


> Just to cover my bases, i double checked the Apoth in the DA codex.... unfortunately there is no FNP.


No, sadly it does not give FNP; however if you and your opponent come to an agreement then it is possible for that, and other gear with changed rules as per the latest codex: space marines, to have the effects granted in the latest codex.

Don't get your hopes up to see it happening to often, but some players will allow you to do so in casual games. (And before some decry this thought, remember that this very act was mentioned in the FAQ.) In the, fairly likely, event that you are not able to do that, gotta use the rules presented in your codex and yours alone.


But should your opponent agree, then your apothecary would be able to grant FNP, your storm shields would work against shooting and be ++3, and so on.


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## hcordes (Sep 23, 2010)

darkreever said:


> No, sadly it does not give FNP; however if you and your opponent come to an agreement then it is possible for that, and other gear with changed rules as per the latest codex: space marines, to have the effects granted in the latest codex.
> 
> Don't get your hopes up to see it happening to often, but some players will allow you to do so in casual games. (And before some decry this thought, remember that this very act was mentioned in the FAQ.) In the, fairly likely, event that you are not able to do that, gotta use the rules presented in your codex and yours alone.
> 
> ...


And truth be told that is the first thing I thought of.... especially with storm shields... but then i was like.. would i let my opponent do that.. even casually?? Probably not... its like picking and choosing the best bits outta all the SM codex's to make one "mega-dex". So i decided not to pursue this option lol. I think that's too much of a slippery slope..


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Maybe, in the end only time and trying can truly tell us the answer to that one.

However when you do start to decide on some lists, and when you post them up here, be prepared to get a deluge of responses telling you to use another codex. (Even if you make sure to mention that you will not be doing such a thing, some people are just that ignorant of anything beyond the actual list.)


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## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

persoanly i rarely take plasma at all. If i do it would be on a special charature who has to have it (such as Kharn), if they have a 2+ armour save(Obliterators) or have Feel No Pain (Marine command squad). That said i normaly only get them for my Command squad as 4 plasma guns is a scary thing and out of all 10+ games they have been in only once has one melted his hands off.


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

hcordes said:


> I am starting a new Dark Angels successor army, Angels of Redemption


Woo! I'm not the only one.

If you decide to run Marine heavy, I would consider having Ravenwing Support Squadrons with multi-melta and heavy flamers if you take some plasma guns on your marines. 

Personally, I would perhaps run something a little like this:


```
1 Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing @ 205 Pts
...on Land Speeder
1 ...on Land Speeder @ [205] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter

1 Dreadnought @ 130 Pts
Dreadnought CCW; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Flamer; Multi-Melta

1 Dreadnought @ 130 Pts
Dreadnought CCW; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Flamer; Multi-Melta

1 Dreadnought @ 130 Pts
Dreadnought CCW; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Flamer; Multi-Melta

9 Tactical Squad @ 215 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x7); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Flamer; Multi-Melta; Rhino
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Bolter (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour
1 Rhino @ [35] Pts
Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

9 Tactical Squad @ 215 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x7); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Flamer; Multi-Melta; Rhino
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Bolter (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour
1 Rhino @ [35] Pts
Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

9 Tactical Squad @ 215 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x7); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Flamer; Multi-Melta; Rhino
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Bolter (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour
1 Rhino @ [35] Pts
Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

1 Ravenwing Support Squadron @ 75 Pts
Multi-Melta (x1); Heavy Flamer

1 Ravenwing Support Squadron @ 75 Pts
Multi-Melta (x1); Heavy Flamer

1 Ravenwing Support Squadron @ 75 Pts
Multi-Melta (x1); Heavy Flamer

1 Predator @ 95 Pts
Autocannon; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Bolter

1 Predator @ 95 Pts
Autocannon; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Bolter

1 Predator @ 95 Pts
Autocannon; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Bolter

Total Roster Cost: 1750
```
It gives you plenty of Melta support, and you can easily switch some points around to implement plasma in the marine squads.


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## hcordes (Sep 23, 2010)

Cruor99 said:


> Woo! I'm not the only one.
> If you decide to run Marine heavy, I would consider having Ravenwing Support Squadrons with multi-melta and heavy flamers if you take some plasma guns on your marines.


Right now this is pretty much what i am working with..... outta the DA army box

```
1 Libarian
1 Company Master/Captain
15x Marines
1x Devastator box
5x terminators
1x Predator

"the bits box": (i do not have exact counts lol)
15-20 assault marines
12-20 tactical
5-8 Bikes.. no Attack Bikes

Maybe.. i have one additional Predator, that is not painted, originally for my Ultramarines..... but that would leave that army without any Pred.
```
While i like your list, that's a long way off for me... as of right now i have $0 to work with for model purchasing lol


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

Hmm. Then this one shouldn't be too far off, money wise:


```
1 Belial, Master of the Deathwing (HQ) @ 130 Pts
     #Terminator Armour; Twin Lightning Claws

1 Dreadnought (Elites) @ 130 Pts
     Front Armour: 12; Side Armour: 12; Rear Armour: 10; #Searchlight; #Smoke
     Launchers; Dread. CCW & Flamer; Multi-Melta

1 Dreadnought (Elites) @ 130 Pts
     Front Armour: 12; Side Armour: 12; Rear Armour: 10; #Searchlight; #Smoke
     Launchers; Dread. CCW & Flamer; Multi-Melta

1 Dreadnought (Elites) @ 130 Pts
     Front Armour: 12; Side Armour: 12; Rear Armour: 10; #Searchlight; #Smoke
     Launchers; Dread. CCW & Flamer; Multi-Melta

5 Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) @ 305 Pts
     #Terminator Armour; Sergeant Terminator; Chain Fist (x1); Lightning Claw
     (x1); Power Fist (x2); Power Weapon; Assault Cannon; Lightning Claw 2
     (x1); Storm Bolter (x3); Apothecary Terminator; Terminator Standard Bearer

5 Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) @ 250 Pts
     #Terminator Armour; Sergeant Terminator; Chain Fist (x1); Lightning Claw
     (x1); Power Fist (x2); Power Weapon; Assault Cannon; Lightning Claw 2
     (x1); Storm Bolter (x3)

5 Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) @ 250 Pts
     #Terminator Armour; Sergeant Terminator; Chain Fist (x1); Lightning Claw
     (x1); Power Fist (x2); Power Weapon; Assault Cannon; Lightning Claw 2
     (x1); Storm Bolter (x3)

1 Ravenwing Support Squadron (Fast Attack) @ 75 Pts
     Multi-Melta (x1); Heavy Flamer

1 Ravenwing Support Squadron (Fast Attack) @ 75 Pts
     Multi-Melta (x1); Heavy Flamer

1 Ravenwing Support Squadron (Fast Attack) @ 75 Pts
     Multi-Melta (x1); Heavy Flamer

1 Predator (Heavy Support) @ 95 Pts
     #Searchlight; #Smoke Launchers; 2 Spons. Hvy. Bolters; 2 Spons. Hvy.
     Bolters; Autocannon; Storm Bolter

1 Predator (Heavy Support) @ 95 Pts
     #Searchlight; #Smoke Launchers; 2 Spons. Hvy. Bolters; 2 Spons. Hvy.
     Bolters; Autocannon; Storm Bolter
```
A little less multi-melta support, but you gain a substantial ammount of torrent in the form of storm bolters and assault cannons. 

And the opponent needs to remove 3 terminator squads to get rid of your scoring. 

Alternatively: 

```
1 Belial, Master of the Deathwing (HQ) @ 130 Pts
     #Terminator Armour; Twin Lightning Claws

5 Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) @ 305 Pts
     #Terminator Armour; Sergeant Terminator; Chain Fist (x1); Lightning Claw
     (x1); Power Fist (x2); Power Weapon; Assault Cannon; Lightning Claw 2
     (x1); Storm Bolter (x3); Apothecary Terminator; Terminator Standard Bearer

5 Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) @ 250 Pts
     #Terminator Armour; Sergeant Terminator; Chain Fist (x1); Lightning Claw
     (x1); Power Fist (x2); Power Weapon; Assault Cannon; Lightning Claw 2
     (x1); Storm Bolter (x3)

5 Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) @ 250 Pts
     #Terminator Armour; Sergeant Terminator; Chain Fist (x1); Lightning Claw
     (x1); Power Fist (x2); Power Weapon; Assault Cannon; Lightning Claw 2
     (x1); Storm Bolter (x3)

1 Venerable Dreadnought (Elites) @ 150 Pts
     Front Armour: 12; Side Armour: 12; Rear Armour: 10; #Searchlight; #Smoke
     Launchers; Dread. CCW & Flamer; Multi-Melta

1 Venerable Dreadnought (Elites) @ 150 Pts
     Front Armour: 12; Side Armour: 12; Rear Armour: 10; #Searchlight; #Smoke
     Launchers; Dread. CCW & Flamer; Multi-Melta

4 Devastator Squad (Heavy Support) @ 245 Pts
     Bolt Pistol (x4); Missile Launcher (x4); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

     5 Space Marines @ [75] Pts
          Bolt Pistol (x5); Bolter (x5); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

     1 Veteran Sergeant @ [30] Pts
          Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

4 Devastator Squad (Heavy Support) @ 245 Pts
     Bolt Pistol (x4); Missile Launcher (x4); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

     5 Space Marines @ [75] Pts
          Bolt Pistol (x5); Bolter (x5)

     1 Veteran Sergeant @ [30] Pts
          Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

Models in Army: 38


Total Army Cost: 1725
```
This allows you to combat squad the Devestators (I think) to have 2 missiles in each, theoretically allowing you to spread the missiles properly.

It has less Multi-Melta, but more missiles.


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## hcordes (Sep 23, 2010)

Great thanks for the suggestions..... i'll def be keeping these lists in mind....


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## Azrell (Jul 16, 2010)

If you want to run plasma spam effectively plug some stuff into the combat calculator and see what you are killing vs what losses you will take. It can be fun but from what i have seen it may not be worth 15ps in most cases, when a melta is less pts has assault and can punch through armor 14.

Really to make it worth it over a melta, you have to plan to take that one shot at 24" and stay out of assault range.

Oh and by the way, the DA codex, apoth negates a failed save to the unit... not quite as good as FNP, but you can ignore the Str 10 the wound the just insta deathed you IC if he is with these guys. Also, make sure you take full advantage of the fact the your smoke will reduce pens on your vehics to glances, effectively making them almost unkillable for a turn.


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## hcordes (Sep 23, 2010)

Azrell said:


> If you want to run plasma spam effectively plug some stuff into the combat calculator and see what you are killing vs what losses you will take. It can be fun but from what i have seen it may not be worth 15ps in most cases, when a melta is less pts has assault and can punch through armor 14.
> 
> Really to make it worth it over a melta, you have to plan to take that one shot at 24" and stay out of assault range.
> 
> Oh and by the way, the DA codex, apoth negates a failed save to the unit... not quite as good as FNP, but you can ignore the Str 10 the wound the just insta deathed you IC if he is with these guys. Also, make sure you take full advantage of the fact the your smoke will reduce pens on your vehics to glances, effectively making them almost unkillable for a turn.


I am still in debate... i am for sure going to load out at least one squad with P.Cannon and a Melta gun, sarg with P.pistol. second squad, missile, p.gun, and p.pistol.
Yes, the apoth(s) are very usefull all the way around, thanks for the advice. =)


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