# Chaos vs Tyranids vs Necrons



## divineshadow (Oct 23, 2008)

who will end up winning?


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

We are organized, and growing.


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## KrythosMJarenkai (Jun 16, 2008)

fluff wise, necrons, they are endless, and always repair fluff wise.

Also we probably have not seen even the start of their true power and once they release everything, they will wipe out chaos and the nids all together.

allthough....

...

the nids avoid the necrons since they devour all life, and Necrons have already wiped out the life around them.

And the chaos are warp entities, and while in the warp, they are safe from atleast the necrons.


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## killmaimburn (Mar 19, 2008)

Each has their own fluff arguement. By the codex, chaos has the "weakest" argument for eventual victory. The necron codex implies that their victory is inevitable, as does the tyranid codex, referring to the fact that the tyranids have not yet unleashed their full strength. However, I believe that chaos will win because if the necrons win, the tyranids cannot defeat them because they can't recover additional biomass. If the tyranids win, the necrons will face essentially unlimited life power to overpower them. But chaos will turn the other races in time and as the imperium has as yet survived the necrons and the tyranids, so too has and will chaos survive them...


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

is this about eternity of war? because that was my impression. if it isn't it needs to be moved.


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

this needs to be moved if it isnt about eternity of war. if its, chaos is going to win because, like SoM said, we are the most organized and as of yet the side with the most victories.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Just because you are on a killing rampage, you have no empire, the only ones how have a empire out of you lot, is Son of mortarion and wraith


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## Ezekiface 73 (Oct 22, 2008)

i think that my chickens will win, thell peck anything that comes near, dead or un-dead!!!:victory::so_happy:


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## divineshadow (Oct 23, 2008)

Son of mortarion said:


> is this about eternity of war? because that was my impression. if it isn't it needs to be moved.


how to i remove this? or could you remove it for me?


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Thread Moved


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## The_Inquisitor (Jul 19, 2008)

If necrons had stayed in hibernation, they would have been able to wait for Chaos' prophesised destruction of all life in the universe and waited for it to burn itself out, essentially letting the necrons win by default.


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## surreal-mind (Oct 11, 2008)

chaos because the warp exists in everywhen and can live off past feelings endlessly.


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## lightmonkey (Apr 1, 2008)

nids because the look far cooler than any of the other races ^^

also they are preaty much unending, unlike the necrons which are limited to planets really. 
also if rumers about the last oldone making nids are true in any form it would explain why the avoid necron worlds. Just building up there power untill they can strike the necrons down ^^


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## Malagate (Jul 28, 2008)

Nids are the strongest contender

Think of it like this, the Nids basically surround the galaxy, all the hive fleet invasions so far are each like a finger probing the galaxy. These fingers required almost the entire imperial fleet to stop and repel. If the Nids closed their hand, all would be overwhelmed.

Putting that aside, it is inevitable even if Chaos sees the Galaxy burn. Best case Chaos scenario, they defeat the emperor and pour out of the warp in a huge orgy of destruction, the warp spreads and they kill everything else. What do they do then? Sit down and have some tea? They are chaos, they'll just start fighting themselves, and that is where the Tyranids come in. Strong warp presence, nigh on unlimited numbers and all controlled to do the same imperitive. Where Chaos is filled with strife, the Tyranids think as one and just take out each faction until there is nothing left to fight them.

*Scenario 1:* Chaos beats everyone else up, then Nids eat them.

What about the Necrons then? Their plan was to wait for the galaxy to be repopulated so that they would have something to feed on, if the Tyranids have already stripped the galaxy of everything then they are buggered unless they feed off the Tyranids (assuming they don't just leave afterwards).

*Scenario 2:*Necrons barely wake up and fail, Nids already eaten everyone.

Part of that original plan was to seperate the warp from the material universe permanently, if Chaos has already overrun the galaxy then their presence will be too strong for the Necrons to drive it back, their weakness to psychic attacks will stuff them in a galaxy overwhelmed by warp powers.

*Scenario 3:*Necrons wake up, Chaos pwns them, then gets eaten by Nids.

The only chance the Necrons have is if they managed to seperate the warp from the material realm, as that would also presumably bugger up the Hive Mind which has a warp presence and presumably uses it to control its minions. If the Hive Mind doesn't need the warp to control the fleets, then the Necrons are buggered regardless as then the Tyranids come in, eat all the remaining biological matter and so the Necrons no longer have anything to feed on (apart from Tyranids, if they hang around).

*Scenario 4:*Necrons wake up, seal warp, all psychic races are boned, Tyranids either dissolve into uncontrolled animals or are still in control and come in to eat everything. Necrons maybe win, Tyranids maybe win.

So yeah, I'd say Tyranids have the strongest chance, but there are too many unknown possibilities.


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Interesting, but you're argument is based on information that you don't know is true and is false in all probability. The Tyranids came from another galaxy; due to the distances involved, they only approach on a single line. They would then have had to encircle AN ENTIRE GALAXY! ! ! Not likely. If you want further evidence of this, they are only attacking from Galactic East. If they encircled the galaxy, their probes would be comming in from multiple angles, especially after the first defeat.

Necrons, by way of comparison, can eat tyranids just like they eat anything else (though they probably taste differently - sort of like space chicken maybe). And to correct your misperception the Necrons are already awake, at least the parts that matter. The Deceiver has been awake for milenium. He has decided, just recently, that he needs help to take over the galaxy, and so has allowed the other C'Tan to awaken too. That said, he seemed pretty confident, until the Tyranids, that HE COULD DO IT BY HIMSELF. Which argues against Chaos' ability to defeat the Necrons. 

Between the two I say that Necrons win. They can feed and repelnish off the Tyranids, but the reverse isn't true. In a war of attrition, this gives clear advantage to the Necrons.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Remember too that the Necrons can feed off the stars them selves, C'tan are Star Vampires.


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## Beaky (Dec 15, 2006)

yeah, I vote necrons. After all, the 'nids avoid them so they can separate the material universe and the warp in peace, which makes chaos and 'nids well and truly stuffed, as chaos can't get out of the warp, and those that are outside of the warp will get killed, as will the 'nids. Daneel2.0 shows how the necrons will beat the tyranids, and it doesn't matter if any necrons get killed, they just phase back home and get repaired.

However, the necrons will not ultimately win. Why? Because the necrons will leave some races alive so that they can feed on them later, the necrons will go back into hibernation, the galaxy flourishes once more, and is just like it is now, except there will be no chaos, probably no tyranids, and there will be different races populating the galaxy. And then the necrons wake up again to eat stuff, and the cycle continues.


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## wombat_tree (Nov 30, 2008)

All your points are valid but as much as I like necrons the nids exist outside the universe and therefor cannot be reached so are invincible


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## Steve the mediocer (Dec 27, 2008)

fluff wise, the tyranids have it in the bag, you can destroy the hive fleets but thats it, you can never really strike back at them, and also fluff wise, the fleets are steadily getting bigger


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## jakkie (Dec 21, 2007)

Necrons

Reasons - 
they CAN be killed, but it is almost impossible.

Nids only attack to consume the biomatter - this is how they survive. if they attacked the Crons then they would get beaten back time and time again, and the WOULDNT BE ABLE TO REGROW THE SWARM! this is important as the only way that Nids can win battles is by continuosly re-forming in space and then hurling themselves back into the fight. this means that if all life in the galaxy was to end, the nids would not be able to survive 

It is possible for the Necrons to seal the Warp from the Material world - the pillars that are keeping Cadia safe from the Eye of Terrer are thought to be Necron/Necrontyr.

Necrons are controlled and commanded by the 2 (4) most powerful beings in the galaxy. once the nightbringer reveals itself fully and regains its srength, there will be very little that can stand before it!


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

wombat_tree said:


> All your points are valid but as much as I like necrons the nids exist outside the universe and therefor cannot be reached so are invincible


I think you mean galaxy, rather than Universe. The Nids need to keep moving to stay alive because they consume all and do not manage their harvest in the manner that the Necrons do.

For that reason I would assume that the Nids are in big trouble in the galaxy they left, they ate it all, and have nowhere to fall back to. If the Nids don't dominate soon then it might be too late for them as their stock of biomass is depleted by a protracted conflict on many fronts.

The Necrons don't have any psi at all and so would not draw the attention of the nids, and they don't need or provide biomass. They can eat the stars of teh galaxy themselves.


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## kungfoomasta (May 8, 2008)

dpending on when humanity dies out chaos will become virtually useless. the necrons can avoid the nids indefinatly because the nids cant find them and will not go to the barren lifless rock that are the necron tomb worlds and eventually the nids will run out of things to eat.


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## kholek09 (Feb 4, 2009)

necrons would win.
necrons vs ANYTHING would you plonkers They shall harvest all life! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

Nids every time. this false crap about the necrons ever winning is a bad guess. Necrons CAN NOT get bigger. they are a limited number. The only thing they can create are Phars and there only from very rare human genes. 

Nids don't NEED Biomass to survive, they need it to grow. and seeing as how they sent several hive fleet that crushed everything they hit over and over again shows they are the biggest. Also, the hive fleets coming in now are nothing but scout ships, no one knows what the nids have coming in slowly to whipe out the rest of the glaxy before moving on in the universe. All the nids would have to do to kill off the necrons is find there way in to the tombs (not hard) and over run it and destroy everything, Necrons could never stop a hive fleet invasion on there own. 

Nids don't go to necron worlds because there is not enough biomass for them to care, not because they can't see them. And if the necrons started to attack the nids they would soon find them selves being over run and be destroyed again.

Choas will never win for one reason, if they kill everything or the Warp takes over the "real world" they will seas to exist, they are only there now because of there moral followers and the corruption of the universe.


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

I'm not quite sure why Chaos are even in the running for winning out of these three. Lets look at a few possibilities.

1)Necrons seal off the warp. Necrons win, Chaos is destroyed.

2)Necron wipe out most life. Necrons win, Chaos doesn't have enough followers or physic creatures to have any real power.

3)Nids eat everything. Nids win. Otherwise same as above.

4)Full power of nids enters galaxy. A completely united single organism with a massive warp presence. It could probably create a god that's just a warp reflection of itself. Chaos gods get eaten.

Between the 'nids and the Necrons- well we don't know much about them.The current 'nid fleets might be tiny probes, but so might the tomb world uncovered just be the tip of the iceberg. We just don't know.


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## TheJackalMan (Feb 29, 2008)

thomas2 said:


> Between the 'nids and the Necrons- well we don't know much about them.The current 'nid fleets might be tiny probes, but so might the tomb world uncovered just be the tip of the iceberg. We just don't know.


Agreed, if the 'nid fleets are indeed just the tip, well then, crap. If the necrons awoke 100%, well then, crap.

Then again, what if some of the 40k conspiracy theorists are right and the hive mind is actually a C'Tan? 'nids and necrons are somewhat the same. But the Deceiver is a douche and C'Tan wars would probably happen again. *shrug* Or the Deceiver calls upon his Tech Marine followers and steals a few Titans and melds them with Necron Technology...

Well now I'm conspiring. 

Anyway, my vote is for necrons, cause I like them better.


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## Phrazer (Oct 14, 2008)

Nids for the win no doubt. They are unlimited in numbers and they havent even properly "arrived" in this galaxy properly yet. If they crossed from another Galaxy to this one then they must have a way of storing biomass for uber long periods of time, so even when they are have eaten this Galaxy whole and are sitting there licking their lips and dipping their claws into that little bowl of lemon water you get after a big meal, they can just pack up and toddle off again in search of other Galaxies. 

Now IF the 'Crons can stay asleep/hidden while all thats going on fair play to them, but they are going to be a little lonely if they ever come outa hibination. Now i dont know much about 'Cron fluff but from what ive read on here is true then they need "life" to survive as well... if thats the case then im afraid Mr Necron come on in, 'cos your time is up!!

Chaos to win long long term?? Dont make me laugh it takes more than a few spikes and a couple of tenticles to go the distance in this ****ed up Galaxy!! No shot!!

However if depends what you mean by LONG term. I mean are we are talking a thousand or so years for the Nids to eat this Galaxy?? Ok say 10k years it doesnt matter, that is still no time at all in the wider scheme of things. Im a Geologist so i tend to think in terms of Millions or even Billions of years.!! Maybe if the Crons could sleep for that ammount of time they might out last EVERYTHING :-S


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

JokerGod said:


> Nids every time. this false crap about the necrons ever winning is a bad guess. Necrons CAN NOT get bigger. they are a limited number. The only thing they can create are Pariahs and there only from very rare human genes.


Sure they can. They transitioned as a race to a robot body, why couldn’t they transition another race to a robot body? The pariah gene was planted in humans because it was useful for the C’Tan in their struggle against Immaterium threats. The fact that they are only using it and no other humans (when it’s obviously possible for them to transition humans) seems to indicate that the C’Tan feel they don’t need another race to win.



JokerGod said:


> Also, the hive fleets coming in now are nothing but scout ships, no one knows what the nids have coming in slowly to wipe out the rest of the galaxy before moving on in the universe.


Absolutely correct, nobody knows. Meaning it’s just as likely they don’t have *anything* else, as they have a ton of more hive fleets.



JokerGod said:


> All the nids would have to do to kill off the necrons is find there way in to the tombs (not hard) and over run it and destroy everything, Necrons could never stop a hive fleet invasion on there own.


Sure, but 3 pylons, and the invasion stops. Cut access to the warp, no hive mind, no nid problem.



Phrazer said:


> Nids for the win no doubt. They are unlimited in numbers and they havent even properly "arrived" in this galaxy properly yet.


Same can be said of Necrons :grin:



Phrazer said:


> Now i dont know much about 'Cron fluff but from what ive read on here is true then they need "life" to survive as well... if thats the case then im afraid Mr Necron come on in, 'cos your time is up!!


Nope, they don’t. Only the C’Tan require any nourishment and they can eat stars. They just prefer life forms – better flavor.

Now if the C’Tan finish their great work, it’s no contest. Nids lose even if they outnumber the Necrons a trillion to one. There may not even be a conflict in that case, depending on where the rest of the fleets were.


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

you assume the nids need the warp to stay in contact with the hive mind. And the C'Tan can't just take another race, that is why there not. they need the phar gene in order to force them in to serving them, the only reason the necrons exist is because the people gave them selves to the C'tan. 

Necrons will never win, they will never shut the warp out of imperium and they will never stop the Nid Hive fleet. 

The ONLY race that can combat the nids long term is the Orks, there the only ones that are bread for combat life them and they can constantly replace there numbers with out even thinking.


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Nids do need contact with the hive mind; look at what happens to their units w/o it.

And C'Tan can just take other races. It's happened to regular modified humans before I believe. The thing is the more they take the fewer they can eat, and they are greedy suckers. The pariah gene just happens to be so useful that they take it more often.


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

Daneel2.0 said:


> Nids do need contact with the hive mind; look at what happens to their units w/o it.
> 
> And C'Tan can just take other races. It's happened to regular modified humans before I believe. The thing is the more they take the fewer they can eat, and they are greedy suckers. The pariah gene just happens to be so useful that they take it more often.


But the hive mind doesn't need the warp to contact its minions. In fact it destroys the warp where ever it gos.

And Necrons can't just take people, if they could do that they would not have lost the great war with the old ones. They need the people to submit to them in order for it to work, if they don't give them selves freely to the C'Tan they can't take there souls and place them in a body.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

JokerGod said:


> But the hive mind doesn't need the warp to contact its minions. In fact it destroys the warp where ever it gos.
> 
> And Necrons can't just take people, if they could do that they would not have lost the great war with the old ones. They need the people to submit to them in order for it to work, if they don't give them selves freely to the C'Tan they can't take there souls and place them in a body.


Where have you read that it destroys it? In the Nid codex the Shadow in the Warp is described as a Blanket blocking all Atropathical communication and shrouding the Astronomicon.

How do you even _destroy_ the Warp? And how then do Hive Tyrants Use "_Warp Blasts_" if its been destroyed? ALong with their other Psychic Powers.

And in the 'Cron Codex (I'll admit its been a while before I've touched the damn thing) the Necrons aren't described as 'Losing' against the Old Ones (in fact the Old Ones were getting really desperate). Rather that Chaos (or whatever it was) was killing everything else so they had nothing to do. Thus going into hibernation to let the Galaxy re-populate.

There's even a little extract concerning who I imagine is the Deceiver stating the Plague could not harm them, but killed everything else


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

The C'tan will always be the winners in the end, the Necrons are just a tool. But I would not put it past GW to change fluff again, they do it all the time, so lets wait until a new Codex comes out to see how they fit with 5thed. (probably 7th ed.) fluff progression.


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

blatantly Chaos will win out. as you question is effectively 'which will win a force of nature or a temporal creature?'

if the Tyranids wipe ever other living thing out in the galaxy (which there are very, very far away from doing), they may well wipe out the current Chaos pantheon with them. but being living creatures they have a warp presence that adds to Chaos. ultimately they will likely end up birthing a new god in their own image, the Hive Mind personified. and there is nothing that they can do about that (nor is there any reason as to why they should be concerned). in a particularly grim twist its possible to speculate that the Tyranids are perhaps being draw to this galaxy _because_ of Chaos. perhaps they are aiming to meet up at the Eye of Terror, at which point Chaos will find a perfect host for its presence in the material world, and the Tyranids will gain the power to mutate at whim within without even the necessity to reproduce.

what do the Necron's have going for them? they're on a back foot already. sure the universe is full of life for them to harvest on behalf of their confusing and contradictory masters, but it was during the War in Heaven and they didn't win out in that war either. and they are showing signs of weakness in adopting the weapons of the enemy they are utterly against (irrespective of the fact that Pariahs make no sense, they are an abomination to the causes of the Necrons if not the C'tan). and even if the Necrons/C'tan do despise the power that creatures can weild by being connected to the warp, they have little power over the warp itself. like twins conjoined from the neck down, any attempt to split reality from the immaterium would just destroy both. so they would loose out in the end.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Tyranids... they mostly come at night... mostly.


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## Deceiver (Sep 19, 2007)

Necrons-- I am a StarGod. I am forever.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

bishop5 said:


> Tyranids... they mostly come at night... mostly.


Thats funking brilliant! That post was gold


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

admiraldick said:


> like twins conjoined from the neck down, any attempt to split reality from the immaterium would just destroy both.


No. You assume that, like twins conjoined from the neck down, this is state of existence that has always been thus. 

This is NOT the case. 

It is quite obvious, from reading the history of the Old Ones, that the materium and immaterium were split entirely and only the advanced technologies of the Old Ones could form small, controlled, breaches between them.

Neither materium or immaterium would be destroyed if the barriers between them were restored; but the Chaos Gods would no longer exist and Warp travel would cease, so there would be negative consequences for some factions.


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

admiraldick said:


> and they are showing signs of weakness in adopting the weapons of the enemy they are utterly against (irrespective of the fact that Pariahs make no sense, they are an abomination to the causes of the Necrons if not the C'tan). and even if the Necrons/C'tan do despise the power that creatures can weild by being connected to the warp, they have little power over the warp itself. like twins conjoined from the neck down, any attempt to split reality from the immaterium would just destroy both. so they would loose out in the end.


Adapting to the enemy, and adopting weapons that are useful, is a strength and not a weakness. 

Add to that the Pariah gene was introduced into humanity by the C'Tan themselves (before they went into stasis) on purpose, not because the Pariah have warp powers, but because they have NO presence in the warp. They are an anti-warp weapon. This fits exactly with the C'Tan goals.


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

darklove said:


> No. You assume that, like twins conjoined from the neck down, this is state of existence that has always been thus.


no, i don't. but thank you for telling me what i think. 



darklove said:


> It is quite obvious, from reading the history of the Old Ones, that the materium and immaterium were split entirely and only the advanced technologies of the Old Ones could form small, controlled, breaches between them.


out of curiosity could you please give a citation for that.



Daneel2.0 said:


> Adapting to the enemy, and adopting weapons that are useful, is a strength and not a weakness.


when you phrase it like that, that's true.

when you look at the confused and poorly thought through background of the Necrons and C'tan its much less clear. how does one combine genes and metal anyway?

the Necrons felt that they were, in some way, superior to other races (confusingly because of their weaknesses). there should be no other races then them. to then admit that there is something worthwhile in their enemy is very much against their goal. 



Daneel2.0 said:


> Add to that the Pariah gene was introduced into humanity by the C'Tan themselves (before they went into stasis) on purpose


which makes the whole thing make even less sense. why bother? what even is it that the C'tan want out of people? if its not their warp based souls, then what is it?

the whole thing needs some serious rethinking because then ends simply don't meet.



Daneel2.0 said:


> not because the Pariah have warp powers, but because they have NO presence in the warp. They are an anti-warp weapon. This fits exactly with the C'Tan goals.


its cool, i had worked out what a Pariah was (although as a weapon they are fairly ineffectual), i was not objecting to the 'weapon' as much as the concept behind the weapon.

although it begs another question, what's the difference between a Pariah and a normal Necron that completely lacks a warp presence?


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