# Tired of not having a codex....



## lasgun joker (Aug 30, 2011)

Right i play the Death Korps of Krieg (awesome army ) and am tired of not having an official codex and so being refused games.. It is extremely annoying and is slowly putting me of my DKOK army .. anyone else feel the same way??


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I would do if I was in your situation. However my local store has a rule stating that any book released by GW that is the most recent ruleset may be used. Therefore in my store we can use IA armies without any worries.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Why not use the DKOK with the IG Codex...many gamers I know who have them do this and they're happy enough. 

MY group let them use the FW lists as well, and honestly if people are flatly refusing to play you because it's not an official GW list, but an FW one...get new people to play against because these others are pricks, plain and simple.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

I would have no problem in playing you.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

you have an official codex, its called codex imperial guard


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

James Tiberius said:


> you have an official codex, its called codex imperial guard


damn right he is, But who cares if you use Forgeworld rulesset for Dkok in friendly matches *shrugs* over at my gaming groups no one ever makes problems about it.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Pretty much whats been said here.... Just use the IG codex for them if people complain... Which they shouldn't do. GW has stated before that FW codex's are official as they're made through their company as a whole, so really, people are just being dicks if they're saying you've not got an official list for them and so won't play you.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

FW in their own books state their lists are intended for regular gameplay. Yes it's opponents permission but you can say any game is with your opponents permission really. I can't see why they won't let you use the IA rules. Have you tried explaining the intricacies and details of the list? even point out some weaknesses. There is often a perception that forgeworld stuff is overpowered but that's really not true. 

If worst comes to worse just use the IG codex. You have Imperial Guard models its perfectly legal to use that codex (you should be able to use most of your models as well, and at least proxy/counts as the rest).


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## empirespy (Aug 2, 2011)

It may seam easy just use the IG codex, but what about Heavy mortars, quartermasters, hades breaching drill, and other stuff that Kreig have that isn't in the codex? How are you going to use them, or are you going to have to take out what could potentially be a large portion of your army, just because some guy is happy playing a forge world rules. If people are not playing your Kreig rules, don't play them at all, they'd probably try cheesing out every possible thing they can.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

When I first saw the title I thought this was going to be a Sisters gripe thread (seeing as my old copy was printed from the internet and in a binder and now my new one is cut out of two WDs and in a binder you can kind of see why I'd think that).

Death Korps have AWESOME models but from my understanding their normal rules are pretty blah. If I were into spending massive amounts of money starting a new army (again...) I'd probably buy them instead of standard guard just to play with the IG Dex.


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## lasgun joker (Aug 30, 2011)

Emprisepy yeah that's what started the problem and a huge portion of my army would be useless if i used the normal IG codex though i am thiking about it :/


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

lasgun joker said:


> Emprisepy yeah that's what started the problem and a huge portion of my army would be useless if i used the normal IG codex though i am thiking about it :/


you mind posting a list of all you have? I'm quite curious,


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

thing is i dont see how you can be tired of not having a codex, you are never going to have a codex,DKOK are a FW army and there rules are covered in the imperial armour books,your issue is people wont play you, even if you had a "codex" you couldnt force them to play you, even if you role up using the guard codex people may still say "no thanks" its more likely they wont play you because they dont know the army you have or how to counter it, it maybe that they feel FW stuff is over powered,If could be rich boy syndrome.
Have you asked why they wont play you?what age are you?and what age are your opponents ?


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

The big problem with IA lists is that your average player does not have access to the IA books. At $50 apiece, it's not something I'm going to buy just in case some opponent might use one of the characters or lists. And, not many stores have copies they let customers read. So, if there are any strange or cheesy rules, then it comes as a complete surprise to your opponent and is therefore a bit unbalanced. You would have much more access to their codex than they would to yours.

Now, that being said, your friends shouldn't have a problem with playing your army. And, complete strangers probably wouldn't have a problem if you explained any special rules ahead of time, explained any wierd combinations of abilities, have a copy of the IA book and any published FAQ's or Erratum, and a detailed army list for your army.


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## OpTi (Aug 29, 2009)

i'd play you in a friendly game as long as you had all of the rules available for me to read through before we started the game.

I might refuse a game when i'm prepping for a tournament like the last few weeks i just wanted to play tournament standard armies to get a feel of the types of armies i would be facing. But i would explain that as the reason why i wouldn't play during that time.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

lasgun joker said:


> Emprisepy yeah that's what started the problem and a huge portion of my army would be useless if i used the normal IG codex though i am thiking about it :/


I'm sure that's part of the problem but it's stating the obvious really. If you want to use the entire DKOK armoury then you'll have to find someone who is willing to let you use the FW lists, and from your first post that ain't happening. Like I said I personally find that people who aren't generous enough to let you play with a FW list aren't worth the bother of playing with in the first place, simply because the vast majority of FW units etc are either underpowered, have poor rules, are overcosted...or even all 3. 

Overall, if you want to regularly use your expensive and lovely models then match them to the IG Codex and you'll at least get to play with them...and find someone who is happy to let you use the FW lists.I saw a Poll on Dakka about this issue and from the 3000+ gamers who voted the vast majority of them were all for playing against FW lists...I reckon the results would be similar with this site and plenty of others as well.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> thing is i dont see how you can be tired of not having a codex, you are never going to have a codex,DKOK are a FW army and there rules are covered in the imperial armour books,your issue is people wont play you, even if you had a "codex" you couldnt force them to play you, even if you role up using the guard codex people may still say "no thanks" its more likely they wont play you because they dont know the army you have or how to counter it, it maybe that they feel FW stuff is over powered,If could be rich boy syndrome.
> Have you asked why they wont play you?what age are you?and what age are your opponents ?


Exactly this ^^

I have no idea about what is in the DKoK rules... have never even glossed over them. If someone were to give me a week's notice then I would go away and read up on them and play them when I knew what I was doing... but I wouldn't play against them in a standard pick-up game.

Its not about list-tailoring, its just knowing enough to make it a decent game. Last time I played someone with a lot of IA stuff was a local ork player who loves his grot tanks (and loads of other stuff). He gave me the choice between his IA list and a walker hoard with nob bikerz... I asked him to play the mech list. Considering I was taking a nurgle tally list this was pretty suicidal. In the end I managed to scrape a draw and it was a great game: he used his nob bikerz to storm accross the board and catch Epidemius and his nurgling guard before I got the tally working, while I used my 4 MCs to punch through his walkers: we each knew how to fight against the other's army, so the game was 'won' by tactical victories, rather then 'lost' by mistakes.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Is the Seige Army list made by GW: Yes
Has GW stated that all lists in any book, even the IA ones, are official: Yes

Methinks you need to find some new people to play with.

SGMAlice


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## Capt.Al'rahhem (Jan 24, 2009)

The DKOK army list is free to download from FW's site, you could download it & print it out so your purspective opponent could look it over. If that doesn't work having a 2nd list written up using the standard IG dex would do you well. As most others have said finding opponents that aren't over competative douches would be the best option but if your new to an area/store maybe after a couple games with the standard dex they'd warm up to the idea of letting you use the FW rules.

I'd be so exstatic to not be playing some from of SM I'd play DKOK in a heartbeat. I'll never understand why someone would refuse to play a FW list in a friendly game, pick-up game or not. Live a little dangerously and play against something your not intimently familiare with for once, is your win/lose ratio really that important to you?


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

SGMAlice said:


> Is the Seige Army list made by GW: Yes
> Has GW stated that all lists in any book, even the IA ones, are official: Yes
> 
> Methinks you need to find some new people to play with.
> ...


still does not mean they will play him,offical or not ,GW or not, people can still say "no thanks", i know people who wont play people with Proxies ,i know people who wont play unpainted armies.

Personally i would love to play against a DKOK, i have a few of the models myself and love them, if i had the money and time i would definitely buy the army.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

That's a damn good idea, Cap! 

Limited access to the rules would be my only issue. The download solves that easily.

OP, I'd much rather have a cool IA codex than a shitty,shitty official one. Have some consideration for all those poor Tyranid and Chaos players, won't you?


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

I would kick those douche bags out. DKOK is the single most cool faction within the imperium, if anyone refuses to play such an awesome looking army they should be beaten until they understand what this game is about. Taking away the little variety and respite from mindnumbingly boring blue spess muhreen vs. red spess muhreens just out of pure spite is simply repulsive.



DeathKlokk said:


> Have some consideration for all those poor Tyranid and Chaos players, won't you?


And the Necrons... And the Tau... And the Eldar.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Chaos, Nids, Tau and soon Eldar all have IA accessible units.

I love the series but my own views is that I prefer the Elysians more. I love aircraft. Especially one with a pair of Punisher cannons!


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

I agree with pretty much everything said. If GW has said that the FW rulesets are official, then it might as well be a codex.


On the other hand, DKOK HAS IT'S OWN RULESET? HOW DID I NOT KNOW THIS?


Must...save money....for DKOK units....-twitch-


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Stephen_Newman said:


> Chaos, Nids, Tau and soon Eldar all have IA accessible units.


IA tyranids are a joke... either their rules don't work or don't work how they were meant to (malenthropes with 2+/3++ for example).


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> I would kick those douche bags out. DKOK is the single most cool faction within the imperium, if anyone refuses to play such an awesome looking army they should be beaten until they understand what this game is about. Taking away the little variety and respite from mindnumbingly boring blue spess muhreen vs. red spess muhreens just out of pure spite is simply repulsive.


Unfair to say that. I've refused to play DKoK, simply because the owning player is a complete and utter arsehole that insists that his two armies, Templars and Death Korps, are the two most powerful armies in the game.

Midnight


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

Haskanael said:


> damn right he is, But who cares if you use Forgeworld rulesset for Dkok in friendly matches *shrugs* over at my gaming groups no one ever makes problems about it.


I wouldn't mind, I just thought best not to even mention it being legal cus of the amount of rubbish it kicks up on forums from people :laugh:


jaysen said:


> The big problem with IA lists is that your average player does not have access to the IA books.


except you can download the list fro FW for free, so price (aka lack of access) is a poor excuse for something thats free


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> still does not mean they will play him,offical or not ,GW or not, people can still say "no thanks", i know people who wont play people with Proxies ,i know people who wont play unpainted armies


Aye, i know a few too but:



> Right i play the Death Korps of Krieg (awesome army ) and am tired of not having an official codex and so being refused games...


Suggests that who ever he plays objects on the basis that it is not 'Official'.
I was offering up the information that it actually is so he can stick that in their face and watch as they splutter nonsensical bollocks till they either acquiesce or go completely off the asshole scale and refuse anyway.

SGMAlice


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

The trouble/drama/BS (call it whatever you like) is that whenever the subject of using a FW army in a 40K game comes up on any and every Forum site, the comments made by both sides of the issue will be the same, and probably will be until hell freezes over...or until GW actually issues a statement catagorically saying that FW IA Books are officially to be treated exactly like a 40K Codex....not just what's written in the IA Books because that obviously hasn't worked for some.

Until then the discussion will continue ad nauseam in its usual round and round and round way.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

James Tiberius said:


> I wouldn't mind, I just thought best not to even mention it being legal cus of the amount of rubbish it kicks up on forums from people :laugh:
> 
> except you can download the list fro FW for free, so price (aka lack of access) is a poor excuse for something thats free


 
Can you give the link for the forgeworld download page? I'm on the site now and can't find a ruleset download.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Nevermind, I found it with google. Terrible website design for FW, btw.

www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/k/kreig.pdf


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Never had a problem with the site myself.

SGMAlice


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

SGMAlice said:


> Is the Seige Army list made by GW: Yes
> Has GW stated that all lists in any book, even the IA ones, are official: Yes
> 
> Methinks you need to find some new people to play with.


The problem is with IA being optional rules essentially there's no good reason choose to play against it, people view them as totally unbalanced with the current game (either over or under). So when you're presented with a choice play against this weird IA army where you're going to have to ask the rules every minute and get caught out by surprise rules or play against the codex army where you know what everything does then it's a simple choice.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

or you agree to play against DKoK and the guy take s out 3 reaver titans...

The list looks ok to me, so long as the guy you are playing isn't a cock. I would happily play DKoK so long as they are an actual DKoK army (no half-arsed conversions to get a different ruleset). But I would still want a better look at the dex before playing: had a quick look and I still don't really grasp the differences (like why you need commissars, don't they ignore Ld mods anyway during assault).

Mainly I just start to get wound up by people who keep pulling out a 'bonus' special rule at times that they need it. "Oh by the way I'm stubborn". But then this is based off bad experiences in the past, mostly non-GW but the best example was the first time I had played Tau (I had only just re-started 40k and had no idea about them). I charged some Tau warriors with wolf scouts and was told they were S4 WS4 A2 basic... yeah the opponent was a complete cheat, but if I had known a tiny bit about his army that wouldn't have been an issue.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> The problem is with IA being optional rules essentially there's no good reason choose to play against it, people view them as totally unbalanced with the current game (either over or under). So when you're presented with a choice play against this weird IA army where you're going to have to ask the rules every minute and get caught out by surprise rules or play against the codex army where you know what everything does then it's a simple choice.



Indeed, this is true. But any reasonable person would at least ask to see the army list first and then make a judgement on wether or not to play them. To do otherwise is, frankly, unreasonable and cowardly. If the opponent suprises you with a rule then ask to see it in black and white first.
We are all reasonable people, bar the odd OTT player whom we all should avoid playing until that person becomes reasonable.

I personally have never turned down a game based on not knowing what to expect from a list; it adds an air of risk and reward based on the unexpected.
Obviously thats not for everyone.

SGMAlice


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I think it depends on the setting really. Round here it wouldn't be a problem, we arrange games the week before and people generally play what they like IA or not. But I can see the situation where you're going down to your local shop for a quick pick up game, or want to try a list for a tournaments and you just can't be bothered to work out what the hell a Hades Breeching Drill does or what those Thud Guns actually do. 

I think the problem is not just his opponents, and not cowardice, it's just can they be bothered or not. And you know what, it's a game, that you do in your spare time for fun. Being bothered it a big part of it. If you want to play DKoK then talk to people, find some opponents shouldn't be too hard.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

jaysen said:


> Nevermind, I found it with google. Terrible website design for FW, btw.
> 
> www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/k/kreig.pdf


what you mean going on the main page, clicking on downloads, finding what you need and clicking on it.........seems easier than going through google:laugh:


Tim/Steve said:


> or you agree to play against DKoK and the guy take s out 3 reaver titans...


how would that happen when there apoc only?


Aramoro said:


> So when you're presented with a choice play against this weird IA army where you're going to have to ask the rules every minute and get caught out by surprise rules or play against the codex army where you know what everything does then it's a simple choice.


is it?, I have no idea what anything in the dark eldar, grey knight, blood angel or ork codex does, so how is that any different for me?, heck access to them is harder since they are not free to download, you can't read the ones in shops and if your opponent is bad at explaining or unwilling to hand there codex over it makes it much more difficult than spending the night before reading a free PDF on a website.


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## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

there are many things you have to factor into why people dont want to play DKoK.

there not like regular IG and you dont come across them alot, people will play most of the core army's because they know how to beat them .

i would play you, tbh . i would like a chance to take on something like that straight on. but others who are too proud to lose will decline rather than risk losing.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

James Tiberius said:


> how would that happen when there apoc only?


'fraid not. They are in the DKoK army list: a regular DKoK is allowed 1 super heavy detachment in a regular game of 40k.. its quite within their rules to play a reaver if they want.
It would be an utterly arsy thing to do if you hadn't agreed on it beforehand... but nothing is stopping you in the rules.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

Tim/Steve said:


> 'fraid not. They are in the DKoK army list: a regular DKoK is allowed 1 super heavy detachment in a regular game of 40k.. its quite within their rules to play a reaver if they want.
> It would be an utterly arsy thing to do if you hadn't agreed on it beforehand... but nothing is stopping you in the rules.


well I dunno the cost in pts of a reaver, but if the game is 2000pts I would very much doubt you'd still see even 1 reaver titan, assuming they cost allot anyway, so I doubt thats still an issue, but if they could afford in pts to bring on 3, and have spent there time, money and effort buying/scratchbuilding them and painting them, then fair play, I'm sure even in a none apoc game you can fit on enough AT to do some damage to them, if they can even deploy on the table.


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