# Sticky  'Versus...' Rules and Suggestions. WE NEED IDEAS!



## Galahad

*Welcome to 40k Tactics, and welcome to 'Versus...'*

'Versus...' is a feature thread for this forum. Every week I'll start a new thread entitled 'Versus...<insert unit here>' with a different target unit every week. 

In the weekly thread we'll discuss the best way (or your favorite way) of dealing with that unit. You're free to continue the discussion after the first week if you like, but every week (or so) I'll add a new thread to discuss, with a new target unit.

When I start a new 'Versus...' thread I'll edit this post to insert a link to it. This will serve as an archive, should anyone be in need of advice on how to deal with a unit we've already covered.

Updates are in GREEN

*So, is this for like Eldar vs Space Marines?*
No, this is not X vs Y. This is how to deal with one speciffic unit, not how two units stack up against each other.

*So, what's this sticky for? *
It will serve as an archive (as mentioned) as well as a sounding board for suggestions on what next week's unit should be.
You can also use it to nag me if I go more than a week without posting a new thread ;-)

*So, what should I suggest?*
Whatever you want, but I think it would be most useful if we focused on particularly scary, powerful or exotic units and characters. I don't think anyone needs to know the best ways of taking out a squad of guardsmen, but I'm sure a few people would like advice on taking down Mephiston or Tooled up Grav Tanks. I'm sure if the feature has legs we'll eventually work our way to the more mundane units.

Remember to keep it simple. Rather than 'how do I get terminators out of an objective?' it should be 'How about Terminators?' When the unit gets chosen for its own thread, feel free to ask about specific situations then.

*So, can I post an army type instead of a unit?*
Sure. Though I'd like to focus on individual units rather than whole army builds, 'Versus Mech Tau' is a valid suggestion and would make for an interesting thread. So, yeah, feel free to suggest army builds too.

*So who decides what'll be the target of the week?*
Me! Ha-ha-ha-ha!
But I'll defiantly take into account units that get nominated a lot, or that generate a lot of interest. And suggestions that don't get used will still be in the pool, so there should be a lot to draw from

*So, when's the weekly thread?*
I'm aiming for Fridays (which means the first thread might be a rush job since it's Thursday...so post some suggestions, guys!)

*So, what happens to old threads?*
Nothing. If the debate carries on for more than a week, so be it. If not, it'll get sucked into the ever flowing tide of old posts and preserved, in link for on this page. Just do me a favor: If you come across one of the old threads floating in the ether, *read it all* before resurrecting it! I always love to see the threads come back with more discussion, but only if new ideas and tactics are being added.

*So, what happens if I decided to start my own 'Versus...' thread?*
While asking questions and looking for advice is always encouraged and welcomed, please remember that Galahad is a petty, petty man. If he sees a thread titled 'Versus XXX' he will change your thread title. Feel free to ask how you defeat a given foe, just don't try to horn in on the format. If you want an official Versus thread for your target, please post in this thread.

*So, how do I know it's an 'official' Versus thread?*
Well, aside from being started by me, it'll also have a giant link just like this...
Versus: Week Xxxx​...at the top. This is new...I hope it will make people come and check out the sticky and post suggestions!

*So, there's like a million pages on this stupid sticky. Do I have to read through it all?*
Fuck no! Just read the first post here to see the rules and the current idea pool, then jump to the last page or two to see the newest suggestions!

*So, where's the links to those old threads?*
Right here!


Week One: Tau Broadsides
Week Two: The Death Company
Week Three: The Carnifex
Week Four:  The Necron Monolith
Week Five: Eldrad Ulthran
Week Six: The Daemon Prince
Week Seven: Eldar SKimmers
Week Eight: Space Marine Drop Pods
Week Nine: The Ork Horde
Week Ten: Eldar Harlequins
Week Eleven: Space Marine/Chaos Terminators
Week Twelve: Lash of Submission
Week Thirteen: Tau Crisis Suits
Week Fourteen: Webway Portals
Week Fifteen:Necron Destroyers
Week Sixteen: The Hive Tyrant
Week Seventeen: Powerfist Squad Leaders
Week Eighteen: Tau Skimmers
Week Nineteen: Big Mek Kustom Force Fields
Week Twenty: Chaos Plague Marines
Week Twenty-One: The Soulgrinder
Week Twenty-Two: Eldar Wraithguard
Week Twenty-Three: Eldar Wraithlords
Week Twenty-Four: Jump Infantry
Week Twenty-Five: Ork Warbikes

*Current Suggestion Pool*
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Avatar of Khaine **
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Infantry *
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius *
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Grey Knights *
Leman Russ *
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Ghazghkull Thraka *
The Plaguefather
Bloodthirster
Skulltaker
The Changeling
The Deathwing
Genestealers
Scarab Swarms
Tank Armies
Whirlwinds
Berzerkers **
Thousand Sons *
Noise Marines
Librarians
Marine Equivelants
Marneus Calgar *
Land Raiders
Chaos Obliterators *
Thunderfire Cannon
Flamers of Tzeentch

Alright, so get to it! Let's hear some new suggestions, as well as what you think of the ones we got.

*NOTE:* Please no joke suggestions! Jokes or spam in the sticky will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be dealt with.


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## asianavatar

Can it be a situational suggestion like. How to get CC Terminators that are in cover out of a n objective.


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## Galahad

That's a little too specific and would best be saved for simply posting a thread about on your own, or asking as part of a Versus Terminators thread.

Versus Terminators, however, would be an acceptable topic, and in that thread you could ask how to get them out of objectives, but it wouldn't be strictly about that. People could post their suggestions for dealing with terminators in general. Someone could say "What about assault termies with claws though?" etc.

This is an answer to all of those "How do I beat X?" or "My friend keeps beating me with his Y!" or "I'm up against Z, what do I do?!" threads.

It's how to deal with a unit type rather than an exact situation, however that situation can be part of the general discussion.


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## Hespithe

How about ...Vs. 5th Edition? Is that broad enough for ya?

Really... how about... Vs. Broadsides/Sniper Drone Teams.
Or... how about... Vs. Slaaneshi Lash Princes


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## Mad King George

i like the idea aslong as its checked which it probably will


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## Galahad

News and Rumors is for vs 5th ed 

But those are some good suggestions. Anyone else got some?

As a Blood Angel I'll throw in some
Vs Death Company
Vs Mephiston


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## asianavatar

My suggestion would be plague marines.


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## Frostbite

Hespithe said:


> Really... how about... Vs. Broadsides/Sniper Drone Teams.


Silly, you can't deal with those. It's best to accept your fate and bow to the Greater Good...

On a more serious note, I like the idea a lot, and it will have another effect. It'll let people know how others deal with their favorite units (I'd really like to see how people deal with Broadsides, for example). So both sides will be benefiting from this, and we all come out the wiser. Great success!


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## maxtangent

Versus Harlequins
and/or
Vs. Falcons that carry them


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## Galahad

we'd have better success if you contributed some units to the Versus pool, Frosty ;-)


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## Galahad

Alright, here are the suggestions as of Week 1
Terminators
Broadsides
Sniper Drones
Lash Prince
Death Company
Mephiston
Plague Marines
Harlequins
Falcons

I'll sum up the unused suggestions every week so we know what's still in the 'pool' before throwing out more ideas.

Remember, if you see something that's in the pool that you *want* to see a post on, please say so. If there's obvious interest in a particular subject it's going to get picked quicker. For example, this week Hespithe suggested Broadsides and Frostbite commented that he would like to to see it, so this week is...

Versus Tau Broadsides!


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## Galahad

Don't forget, you can still submit ideas for next week's posting!


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## GhostBear

How about vs Monstrous Creatures (MCs)? 
Or if that's too broad
Vs Carnifex's
Vs Hive Tyrants
Vs Wraithlords
Vs Avatar of Khaine
Vs The Nightbringer
Vs The Deceiver
Vs So on and so forth

This is especially important for enemies with Toughness around 8 or with special nasty rules built in.


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## Frostbite

I'd like to see how people deal with assault troops, such as Assault Marines or Raptors. Fast moving troops are the bane of most shooty armies, even if they have some mobility. I'm also very curious to see how people deal with Monoliths, particularly the ones that deep strike on top of you in force (2 or 3 at once, a friend of mine uses that tactic and it messes me up something fierce).


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## Silb

what about vs independant characters? Or maybe a thread about dealing with a specific character (ex. vs Kharn the betrayer, vs Tigurius, vs eldrad ulthran, etc.)


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## Culler

Deepstrikers may be worthwhile to have a topic of their own (how to anticipate them, deny them positioning, maximize risk, and deal with them when they arrive).


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## Galahad

I would prefer focusing on individual characters rather than ICs in general, similarly with MCs, I'd rather go for specific examples since in both cases, the individual abilities possessed by the various creatures and characters can dramatically alter the scenario.

Deepstrikers, however, isn't a bad idea since they tend to share characteristics and tactics.


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## DrakeBluedragon

How about how to kill those pesky wave serpents with a shooty army?


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## Xaereth

I'd personally like to know how to deal with the deciever. I hate it that I can never get into hand to hand with him unless he wants me to.


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## Galahad

Man, Week 1 was great! We got four pages out of it and it's still going. I'm glad this seems to be working out. We also got a lot of good suggestions.

Suggestions pool as of Week 2
Terminators
Sniper Drones
Lash Prince
Death Company
Mephiston
Plague Marines
Harlequins
Falcons
Wave Serpents
Carnifex
Hive Tyrants
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Eldrad Ulthran
Deepstrikers

Eldar grav-tanks in general got a bit of interest, but we also just had a nice long thread about dealing with them, so I decided to hold off.

As a BA player I'm interested in hearing how people deal with JPs too, but Frosty got his pick last week :wink:

I think this week we'll go with something really scary...The Death Company


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## killer13

how about how to easyily kill carnifexs


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## Galahad

Ask and ye shall receive. Week 3: Versus Carnifex

Week two has been going great, and I'm very pleased to see the Broadside thread from week 1 is still going strong. But one thing we could use is more suggestions! Not just on new units to add to the pol but of what ones in the pool people want to see.

Suggestions pool as of Week 3
Terminators
Sniper Drones
Lash Prince
Mephiston
Plague Marines
Harlequins
Falcons
Wave Serpents
Hive Tyrants
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Eldrad Ulthran
Deepstrikers


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## DarKKKKK

id say go with Terminators for Week 4
maybe even go as more specific and say Deathwing Terminators

also i would like to see what some ppl would do against a Mech Eldar Army
from what i have heard, its one of the most powerful armies these days


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## Galahad

Good suggestions. Anyone else?


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## GhostBear

I'd like to see something on the Deceiver or Monolith. You've covered Tau, Marines and Tyranids so far. Seeing something on the Necrons would be nice.


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## Katie Drake

I'll second the above suggestions. Probably the Monolith first as its more common than a C'tan (at least around here, anyway).


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## Siege

Harlequins. These pricks run amok amongst my armies time after time.


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## Casmiricus

Drop Pod SM armies. Ugh.


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## DrakeBluedragon

Im still for wave serpent, but y not fast skimmes as a whole. They do get on my nerves


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## Galahad

Alright, we're into week Four and still going strong! Great job you guys on keeping this thing going!

This week we didn't get many new suggestions, but we did get a lot of feedback on which ones we've already got that people want to see, which is just as good. But if we're going to keep this going long enough that Jez is forced to give it a subforum of its own, we need more of both! :biggrin: So let's hear some new suggestions, as well as let us know which ones already listed you want to see.

There seems to be a lot of interest in Eldar right now, both out in the forum and here in suggestions (and even in Rules), and I myself am curious about those bloody skimmers...but because we're already talking so much about Eldar, I think it's only fair to wait just a little longer and give someone else a chance.

So this week, it's the 'Crons turn.
Week Four: Versus Necron Monoliths.

Suggestions Pool as of Week 4 (We could use some new ones as well as opinions on what ones already posted you want to hear. Don't be afraid to make more than one suggestion)

 Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Terminators *
Sniper Drones 
Lash Prince 
Daemon Prince (DPs in general. This is my suggestion this week :biggrin: )
Mephiston 
Plague Marines 
Harlequins *
Eldar SKimmers ** (lumped falcons and serpents together)
Hive Tyrants 
Wraithlord 
Avatar of Khaine 
The Nightbringer 
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers 
Kharn the Betrayer 
Tigurius 
Eldrad Ulthran 
Deepstrikers/Drop Pods *


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## Siege

Crisis Battlesuits. Okay I know these are generally easy to kill but you wanted suggestions and Crisis suits are quite capable of doing damage when used well.

Hammerheads/Tau Skimmers. Though mine seem to have no problems dying I read a lot of people complaining about Tau skimmers being really hard to bring down so this could be worth considering. 

These may seem like odd suggestions coming from a Tau player, but knowing how my enemy can kill me is just as important as knowing how I can kill them. 

I would like to see Terminators or Harlequins looked at next week. We seem to be focusing on the larger units as they can be quite nasty but the tactics used in dealing with them are kinda similar. For past two weeks the only advice for Tau players has been "shoot them with railguns", that's good advice as it will work but I'm sure most Tau players would do that anyway. 

Anyway I'm really enjoying the whole 'versus' thing and I hope it keeps going.


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## pyroanarchist

Already mentioned-
vs. Plague Marines
vs. Hive Tyrants
vs. Terminators
vs. Deamon Princes
New-
vs. Master of the Ravenwing!! (I hate that fast Land Raider)
vs. Abaddon the Despoiler (much scarier than Kharn)
vs. Howling Banshees
vs. Deathwing (all terminator/mech army)

I love the threads Galahad and think its coming along great so far.


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## Galahad

Alright, not a lot of people suggesting this week but a lot of suggestions none the less.

Looks like a lot of interest in Terminators, but Eldar have been the white elephant in the room and I figure we should address them before doubling back to Marines.

Harlies got a LOT of talk recently though, and so have skimmers... I was tempted to do the skimmers, but really there's so much on them right now and I didn't want another "Shoot it with railguns!" topic

So I figured I'd go back a step and hit on someone that hasn't been brought up a lot lately: Eldrad Ulthran...I know, he hasn't gotten as many requests as skimmers or harlies, but I'm curious about him (and I think it's good to remind people that this can be about ICs too)

Keep adding new suggestions, keep weighing in on old ones (I promise I won't ignore the multi-star topics often! Just this once...) 

And, hey, why not some orks?! Their new codex is freaking scary, let's hear some orky units you want to take down!

In the meantime, here's the list as of Week Five (God, it's been more than a month!)

Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Terminators ***
Sniper Drones
Lash Of Submission *
Daemon Prince *
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Harlequins **
Eldar Skimmers **
Hive Tyrants *
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Deepstrikers/Drop Pods *
Tau Battlesuits
Tau SKimmers
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing


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## Steel Rain

I double triple quadruple suggest the Daemon Prince. How about shooty armies taking down the bike/jetbike rush? I have always had a problem with that.


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## Tbull

v. imp guard soldier masses


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## GhostBear

Is there anything Dark Eldar have that's a bear to face?


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## Insanity101

Yeah, webway portal of doom


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## Andrehydra

What about Vs.Dreadnoughts or Vs.Defiler?


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## Sword Slasher

How about Vs. Tau Stealth - Suits


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## Galahad

Sorry for the tardy update, folks. Lost track of what day was what and spend my normal Versus time whipping up some 40k fiction of the fiction contest.

Eldrad didn't turn out like I expected, but it still generated a lot of activity. I'm glad to see we're still going strong.

Looking at the list, I see a couple of topics with strong interest, and since we haven't touched on chaos yet, I'm going to call this week for The Daemon Prince.

As always, good job guys, you're the ones who keep this feature going. Let's hear some more ideas and recommendations. I'll try not to be 12 hours late next week ;-)

Suggestions As Of Week 6
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Terminators ***
Sniper Drones
Lash Of Submission *
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Harlequins **
Eldar Skimmers **
Hive Tyrants *
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Deepstrikers/Drop Pods *
Tau Battlesuits
Tau SKimmers
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Horde Armies
Webway Portal
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams


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## vo2

just to ask how about the skull hammer?


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## DrakeBluedragon

I was just wondering if anyone has any other tactics when using Tau BESIDES blasting the model with rail guns, because by the looks of it every 2nd model deserves a rail gun barrage, and well, I don`t have 50 rail guns in my army

How about how to take out eldar rangers and pathfinders?


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## Galahad

Still going well. Not many suggestions this week, and the Daemon Prince didn't fare as well as others have...but we saw two of our previous threads return with further discussion, so that's great!
We could still use some ork and dark eldar suggestions, and the IG as well.

Terminators have a lot of stars, but I'm afraid they might end up in the same "Blast it with railguns" category as previous topics, so I'm going to jump back to Eldar and snag everyone's favorite nemesis: Those damned skimmers!

Suggestions As Of Week 7
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Terminators ***
Sniper Drones
Lash Of Submission *
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Harlequins **
Hive Tyrants *
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Deepstrikers/Drop Pods *
Tau Battlesuits
Tau SKimmers
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Horde Armies
Webway Portal
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders


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## GhostBear

Horde Armies or Webway Portals would be nice


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## stormshroud

How about vs the Ork Horde?? 

With a maxed out troop selection of 180 Orks coming in at just over 1000pts how do you combat them? Especially in 1500pt games.


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## Galahad

Two months strong so far! You guys are awesome!
Any more suggestions/feedback on old suggestions? Don't be afraid to speak up, even if you already made a suggestion.

Anyhow, the skimmers thread seemed surprisingly weak, considering all the uproar those things tend to cause...and again it was another 'shoot it til it goes away' subject...so that was my fault.

Earlier in the week Jezlad suggested Drop Pods for week 8
Jezlad oens the site, therefore Jezlad owns Versus, and a good chunk of my soul. So...Week 8: Drop Pods!

Suggestions As Of Week 8
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Terminators ***
Sniper Drones
Lash Of Submission *
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Harlequins **
Hive Tyrants *
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Tau Battlesuits
Tau SKimmers
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Horde Armies/Orks**
Webway Portal *
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders


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## Absolute035

Hey Galahad I would like to see "Versus Necron Destroyers"

with T5, fast movement and firepower that can hurt anything in the game, they can be a real problem


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## Galahad

Great job, guys. The drop pod thread had some great ideas in it and I think it'll pop back up now and then.

Kind of sparse on new suggestions this week, but the one we got was a good one.

In the meantime though, I'm going to keep with the general themes of spreading the love and going with the popular suggestions and say that Week nine is going to be The Ork Horde!

Suggestions As Of Week 9
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Terminators ***
Sniper Drones
Lash Of Submission *
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Harlequins **
Hive Tyrants *
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Tau Battlesuits
Tau SKimmers
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Webway Portal*
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Necron Destroyers


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## Galahad

No suggestions at all this week? Come on guys, we've got to keep this going!

Remember, you can also add a nomination for an existing suggestion. THe more hits an idea has the more likely it'll get done.

Well, since it's been up there for a while. I'm going with Harlequins this week. 

Suggestions As Of Week 10
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Terminators ***
Sniper Drones
Lash Of Submission *
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Hive Tyrants *
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Tau Battlesuits
Tau SKimmers
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Webway Portal*
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Necron Destroyers


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## Silb

how about vs. grey knights?

Also, I may have said this earlier, but I think vs. terminators (including chaos terminators and grey knight terminators) would be a good idea.


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## julio d

Versus a leman Russ with supporting infantry (possibly at the table edge or in a corner)


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## Galahad

That's a little too specific, Julio, but Leman Russ is fine


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## Galahad

Well, week ten went up a little late but that didn't stop it from being a good one. Great job, guys! 

I'm still not seeing a lot of suggestions though. Don't forget, if your idea has already been suggested, suggest it again and it might get posted faster!
Speaking of which, Terminators just got its fourth star, so it's time for a long overdue thread on them...just let's try not to make it another 'shoot it with railguns' thread 

Week 11: Space Marine/Chaos Terminators

Suggestions As Of Week 11
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Lash Of Submission *
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Hive Tyrants *
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Tau Battlesuits
Tau SKimmers
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Webway Portal*
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Necron Destroyers
Grey Knights
Leman Russ


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## Siege

I'm a big fan of these, keep it going. I know I got Harlequins the other week but I'd also like to see Lash Of Submission or Necron Destroyers sometime in the future.

I think the lash would be good since it probably won't be your regular shoot it with these and hit it that kinda thing.


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## Katie Drake

I'm thinking that things like the Greater Daemons, Soulgrinder and other Daemonic nasties will soon need addressing what with the release of Codex: Chaos Daemons being only a few days away.


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## Steel Nathan

yes I want to see a Lash of Submission thread myself, probably the most annoying Physic power in the game IMO( next would be the Eldar Fortune).


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## grotrex76

death cult assasins 1model can drop 2-3 terms a round


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## Galahad

Glad to finally see some suggestions coming in, and once the Daemons codex starts getting played I'm sure we'll get a lot more requests along those lines. But in the meantime it looks like Lash of Submission is the popular choice, so Week Twelve will be Versus Lash of Submission Have at it, and let's hear some more ideas!

Suggestions As Of Week 12
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Hive Tyrants *
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Tau Battlesuits
Tau SKimmers
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Webway Portal*
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Necron Destroyers *
Grey Knights
Leman Russ
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Soulgrinder


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## Benlt

How about fear of the darkness Librarian in a drop pod? If they fail their test you can just run them off the board. Against Loyalists thats a 50% chance of making the whole squad run.


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## Galahad

The Lash thread didn't go over as well as I had hoped...I guess people would rather complain about it than discuss how to fight it. 

Since all the big demand units are gone, I decided to pick one of the older, less-requested ones: Tau Crisis Battlesuits

Suggestions As Of Week 13
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Hive Tyrants *
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Tau SKimmers
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Webway Portal*
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Necron Destroyers *
Grey Knights
Leman Russ
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Soulgrinder
Fear of the Darkness


----------



## Honking_Elephant

I know that greater deamons are already mentioned, but how about specifics for the named greater daemons, specificaly Ku'Gath the Plaugefather


----------



## Galahad

Now that the daemon codex is out, yeah, specific greater daemons would be good. Anbd when the time comes I'll edit the greater daemon suggestion to read "Greater Daemon: (C:CSM)" so it refers specifically to the generic ones from the Chaos SM codex


----------



## Galahad

Things are going well, but we still need a LOT more suggestions and reccomendations! Especially for certain armies. Orks, Dark eldar, Imperial Guard all need suggestions very badly.

In the meantime, I dipped into the pool for something unusual and came out with Webway Portals for week fourteen. Should be interesitng. 

Suggestions As Of Week 14
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Hive Tyrants *
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Tau SKimmers
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Necron Destroyers *
Grey Knights
Leman Russ
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Soulgrinder
Fear of the Darkness
The Plaguefather


----------



## Galahad

Nothing? Not a single suggestion or nomination this week...
Come on, guys, we need a hand keeping this going!

Well, it's been a while since we did the steel skeletons, so this week it's Necron Destroyers.

Suggestions As Of Week 15
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Hive Tyrants *
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Tau SKimmers
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Grey Knights
Leman Russ
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Soulgrinder
Fear of the Darkness
The Plaguefather


----------



## darklove

What about those Tau that have the 2+ armour save and the insane S10 guns? I can't remember what they are called but I could use some versus tips. I have trouble against them with my Necrons.


----------



## dirty-dog-

you mean xv88 broadside battlesuits?

i love railguns.........


----------



## Galahad

Broadsides were the very first versus we did.
Take a look at Page 1 for a list of our previous articles


----------



## Master Andael

How about VS. a Stealer cult


----------



## Galahad

are stealer cults a valid list anymore?


----------



## solitaire

Ha ha! using my Cunning mind I have developed a Cunning idea for your delightfully Cunning Versus Threads! The Mighty (and Cunning) *GHAZGHKULL THRAKA!!!* With his incredible invulnerability and Cunning battle prowess as well as his nasty Waaagh! boosts he is no doubt a Cunning adversary for any opponent!.....Cunning!:biggrin:


----------



## DarKKKKK

I would do a Hive Tyrant one soon, that probably has people mad a lot during the game and can't figure on how to take it down.


----------



## Juiceypoop

Blood thirster.


----------



## TBCX6628

How about versus some of the new Daemon Special characters such as the Changlings glamor ability, or Skull takers skull for the skull throne, boon of mutation or any of the new snazzy new daemon abilities. ever sense i started playing korne/ tzentch army list my friends have been having a lot of trouble with the daemon special characters.


----------



## Engelus

hammerheads and broadsides


----------



## Galahad

Engelus, Broadsides were the very first one we dealt with ;-)

but good suggestions, guys. Keep it up!


----------



## Galahad

Great job getting us some suggestions, guys! (even if two of them were for our first ever article )
But we always need more, so come on back and let me hear it!

We haven;t done bugs in a while, so this week we're covering the deadly Hive Tyrant!

Suggestions As Of Week 16
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Hive Tyrants **
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Tau Skimmers*
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Grey Knights
Leman Russ
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Soulgrinder
Fear of the Darkness
The Plaguefather
Ghazghkull Thraka
Bloodthirster
Skulltaker
The Changeling


----------



## GhostBear

Powerfist/Powerclaw/so on wielding enemies


----------



## Galahad

Mmm, that's a good one. The dreaded 'Hidden Powerfist'


----------



## Untitled401

Deathwing terminator armies. Or is that too broad and want something more specific?
Reason why is pretty obvious, if you dont have AP1-2 weapons then you're gonna have a hard time beating them.


----------



## Longinus

I would want to see a VS with genestealers since I don't like their high WS and I


----------



## Lord Reevan

I'd go with non-independant characters like the hidden powerfist etc... Those can be tricky especially if the player doesn't tell us they have them....


----------



## Galahad

Well, shit, I totally spaced this weekend. Things have sucked at work.
Anyhow, I really like the hidden fist suggestion, and with 5th on its way promising to make it easier to take out specilaists, this looks like the time to get it in. So, Week 17 will be Powerfist Squad Leaders

Suggestions As Of Week 17
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Wraithlord
Avatar of Khaine
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Tau Skimmers*
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Grey Knights
Leman Russ
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Soulgrinder
Fear of the Darkness
The Plaguefather
Ghazghkull Thraka
Bloodthirster
Skulltaker
The Changeling
The Deathwing
Genestealers


----------



## Lord Reevan

I wouldn't say just fists. There are power weapons, special ranged weapons and characters like apothecaries too and it would be best to put them all together. Hidden specialist would be better and not overly specialised on just fists


----------



## Steel Nathan

Ermmm I would suggest a "versus the Avatar" or "versus the wraithlord" 

I've never played against them but I've played with them and I love these two things. Actually while I'm here I could also suggest "wriathguard", as they tend to get annoying at times... 

And... what about those annoying units which they can ignore one save per turn? Geez how I hate those....


----------



## dizzington esq

How about versus the scarab swarm ? Some anti tarpit technology could be coming up...

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


----------



## Galahad

Once again, I've spazzed out and Versus starts late.

With 5th edition coming up, I'm going to start adding a 5th twist to the threads, looking at how some of the new rules will change our tactics.

So in that regard, I'm going for Tau Skimmers

Suggestions As Of Week 18
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Wraithlord *
Avatar of Khaine *
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Grey Knights
Leman Russ
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Soulgrinder
Fear of the Darkness
The Plaguefather
Ghazghkull Thraka
Bloodthirster
Skulltaker
The Changeling
The Deathwing
Genestealers
Wraithguard
Scarab Swarms


----------



## Steel Nathan

Don;t Worry about it Galahad, life is more important then the internet( but leave us and we'll hunt you down :wink, this whole versus idea is probably the best thing yet I've seen here on Herey. 

PS if I vote for the Avatar/Wraithlord again? will it count?


----------



## Kronus

Can I request we consider KFF in light of 5 Edition. They are about to become one of the best pieces of kit in the game especially when combined with Battlewagons. The uses are now myriad and increasingly potent. New cover rules mean that if you have a KFF with your front line troops then potentially everyone in your army will benefit from a 5+ cover or better, now consider that the army we talking about here is made up of 150+ Orks at 1500pts all running, how do u deal with this. 

Even worse the new obscured rules make them twice as useful for protecting vehicles. One Mek with a KFF can give 3 fully loaded battlewagons a 4+ cover save.

All in all I imagine KFF's will appear with far greater regularity in Ork list, how do u deal with them?


----------



## Galahad

I believe the cover save for vehicles protected by a KFF will only be 5+
The 5th ed rules say that obscured vehicles use whatever cover save the terrain imparts. Bits of wargear or special rules (like smoke launchers) that confer obscurement give 4+ *unless* stated otherwise. Since it;s already stated that KFF gives a 5+ cover save, I think it's clear that it should only give 5+ to vehicles too.

Still, that's a kickass advantage, and one worthy of discussion. 
Bravo. Week 19 will be Kustom Force Fields

Suggestions As Of Week 19
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Plague Marines *
Wraithlord *
Avatar of Khaine *
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Grey Knights
Leman Russ
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Soulgrinder
Fear of the Darkness
The Plaguefather
Ghazghkull Thraka
Bloodthirster
Skulltaker
The Changeling
The Deathwing
Genestealers
Wraithguard
Scarab Swarms


----------



## Galahad

I've been slacking off again. Work and the holiday have conspired to make Versus late yet again.

I'm disappointed that nobody's suggested a single thing this week. We really do need the feedback if this thing is going to keep going.

Anyhow, looking at the list, I see another good candidate for out looking towards 5th theme.

Week 20 will be Plague Marines


Suggestions As Of Week 20
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Wraithlord *
Avatar of Khaine *
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Grey Knights
Leman Russ
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Soulgrinder
Fear of the Darkness
The Plaguefather
Ghazghkull Thraka
Bloodthirster
Skulltaker
The Changeling
The Deathwing
Genestealers
Wraithguard
Scarab Swarms


----------



## chrisman 007

Would IG armoured company be a valid suggestion?


----------



## Galahad

I don't think they're a valid list anymore
And in 5th they certainly won't be...but I could definitely see IG Tanks as a worthy entry, or Tank-Heavy Armies.


----------



## shas'o7

How about Castellan missiles? I just have no idea how to beat them.


----------



## Galahad

I'll expand that to Whirlwinds, but yeah that's a good one. Those minefields are a pain


----------



## Galahad

We got some more suggestions this week, which is great. But I'm still a little depressed that we;re not getting near as much feedback as we did early on.
come on, guys. I don't care if you've already pitched an idea, just come in and give us some feedback on the list. Add a suggestion, nominate an old one...do both!

That said, we haven't really done anything for Chaos Daemons yet, so I'm going to pull one from the old pool nd digging out...The Soulgrinder

Suggestions As Of Week 21
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Wraithlord *
Avatar of Khaine *
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Grey Knights
Leman Russ*
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Soulgrinder
Fear of the Darkness
The Plaguefather
Ghazghkull Thraka
Bloodthirster
Skulltaker
The Changeling
The Deathwing
Genestealers
Wraithguard
Scarab Swarms
Tank Armies
Whirwinds


----------



## Untitled401

The Green Tide! how do you fight against hundreds of orks in a 1500pts game??? This also applies to an all Guardsmen army but im more concerned about all them boys.


----------



## rincewind

Ok, that's uncanny... I came in here specifically because I wanted to pitch the exact same idea as the poster above me...

A horde of Orks! 

Now in 5th that troops only score, I just went to 1 tournament and got my ass kicked several times bij hordes of green. We need a versus topic on this.


----------



## Galahad

As thrilled as I am to get suggestions, I should point out that it's worth visiting page One so you can see (and get linked to) all the stuff we've already done.
The Ork Horde was covered on Week Nine.

However, you're free to go back and post on that thread and ask for new insight on it, in light of the new edition.

So now that you've got your 'how to kill great mobs of orks' advice, anything else you want taken down on Versus?


----------



## Lord Reevan

Wraithguard Totally destroyed my army recently so tactics against them would be nice. also paired with the wraithlord to kind of expand the thread....


----------



## Steel Nathan

Yeah, I'd say wraithguard, wraithlords and the avatar.


----------



## rincewind

Well, I ment Ork hordes in the 5th edition. 2 things have changed:

- They are faster due to running
- Players will take even more troops than ussual due to the 'scoring unit' change

But I guess we could discuss it in the existing thread.


----------



## solitaire

I've Cunningly heard people mention their tough so I think I'm going to suggest (in a very Cunning way) the Cunning WRAITHGUARD! They're high T, have a good save, especially with a concealing Spirit Seer, and in 5th could be used to capture objectives if a full squad is taken. All in all they a very Cunning unit:biggrin:.


----------



## Galahad

rincewind said:


> Well, I ment Ork hordes in the 5th edition. 2 things have changed:
> 
> - They are faster due to running
> - Players will take even more troops than ussual due to the 'scoring unit' change
> 
> But I guess we could discuss it in the existing thread.


I understand why they should be discussed again, but it really should be in their existing thread.

I expect to see a lot of the old Versus threads popping back up, beging for updates.

So yeah, by all means, go back to the ork thread and ask if anyone has any 5th ed suggestions.

Also, due to the overwhelming demand this week, we are indeed doing Wraithguard!

Suggestions Pool As Of Week 22
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Wraithlord ***
Avatar of Khaine **
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Packers
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Grey Knights
Leman Russ*
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Soulgrinder
Fear of the Darkness
The Plaguefather
Ghazghkull Thraka
Bloodthirster
Skulltaker
The Changeling
The Deathwing
Genestealers
Scarab Swarms
Tank Armies
Whirlwinds


----------



## darklove

Please don't do VS threads for individual units or characters anymore because most people only every post 'shoot it with lots of S10 things' etc, which is sooooooo pointless. Katie did a great bit on the SoulGrinder recently, but that sort of post is so rare that it is hardly worth reading VS threads now.

How about VS threads for common army lists that come up at tournies or club nights instead?


----------



## MindFreaky

I don't really mind if it's vs whole army lists or specific units, but I'd personally like to see tips vs Nightbringer or the Deceiver, I've never played vs Necrons before, but I do know they're popular at the club I plan to attend sometime


----------



## darklove

MindFreaky said:


> I don't really mind if it's vs whole army lists or specific units, but I'd personally like to see tips vs Nightbringer or the Deceiver, I've never played vs Necrons before, but I do know they're popular at the club I plan to attend sometime


There is no need for a threads for VS the Nightbringer, other than the one that there is already.

People only ever say 'shoot it with Lascannons' and 'don't let it hit you'. How useful is that? Not very, because that works against any IC/MC. Which is why threads for VS IC/MC or individual units are meaningless. They NEVER come on their own and are always part of an army. 
If you build an army purely to kill your opponent's IC/MC or single unit he will win. I see this often when people make a list purely to kill my Monolith - mostly the Monolith takes 4 turns to die, during which time I have usually done enough damage to his whole army that I can win the game without much effort.


----------



## abaddonthedespoir

well, at least this thread wont have to deal with wave serpents... as in 5ed they're front armour 2 , but the new blaster are str 36 inches and type 2, so we're gonna have to watch out for those


----------



## Lord Reevan

I like darklove's idea about a whole army thread actually....
What about Vs. a full assault squad BA army? I've only used it in small games and it's totally destroyed all opposition. In bigger games they can have vet. squads with meltas for antitank and be an overall balanced enough list so I'd like to see how people would challenge it.....


----------



## Galahad

I'm putting Versus on hold for now. Things are a little hectic for me at the moment. 

I still want to keep the individual units as part of versus, because sometimes a specific unit CAN be a pain in the ass to deal with, but people just have to remember (and be reminded by others) that we;re not talking about just that unit, standing alone in the middle of an open field. A problem unit is likely to be supported and you;ll have to take that into consideration when you give advice.


----------



## cccp

hi guys,

im sure while galahads away, he won't mind if i post up the vs. every week. ill try and keep an eye on it.

any suggestions for vs. threads, please post em up.

lastly, i noticed a few posts up that someone mentioned a fast 'speed freak' type ork army. would this be a good place to start with the next vs or could someone suggest something a little more specific?


----------



## Lord Reevan

IS speed freak all bikes and f ully mechanised yeah?? I'd go with that.... the heavily armoured horde would need to be worked on....


----------



## Dessel_Ordo

I has a suggestion...
Synergy Eldar, yup, thats right, that Eldar list who has the ratio of reapers to banshees to whatever else is thrown in the mix down pat, and can use them damn well (ie the reapers never move (with a 48' range they seldom need to anywys), the bashees are on you 2 turns too soon, where-the-hell did those storm guardians come from ect ect ect)

and you spend all your time fighting through all these aspects, and unless you are in annihilation, this is all time wated, because the guardians are just sittin pretty on objectives that you now dont have a snowballs chance in hell of contesting.

just a thought...

I dunno, I may be misinterpreting the purpose here, it may be the fact that its 12:46, and I'm on a short break from doing the final details on my space marines...
I duno:lazy2:icknose::training::headbutt::wacko::dunno:


----------



## Hellskullz

i would like to see Vs Wraithlords


----------



## darklove

Hellskullz said:


> i would like to see Vs Wraithlords


Try this:

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2865&highlight=Wraithlord


----------



## Lord Reevan

What about versus you own army? I know nids players who can destroy marines easily but can't take on other nids well etc.... Could that be a viable option??


----------



## darklove

I like the sound of that 

How to beat nids...
How to beat Orks...
etc...


----------



## Lord Reevan

It would help people to see the weaknesses in their army too and redefine their lists, getting rid of old stereotypical lists etc....


----------



## Caponey

I'd definitely want too see how to deal with that pesky "Gazgkhull Thracka" who plagues me so.


----------



## DarKKKKK

how about types of armies such as these and more
-Nidzilla
-Mech Eldar
-Tau Suits
-CSM Cults
-Grey Knights


----------



## Concrete Hero

VS. Wraithlords (Seriously... 4 suggestions now)
VS. Khorne Bezerkers


----------



## Sleedon

I'd like to see a versus Tau crisis suit commander wit shield drones no bodyguards ilithian plating and the thingy that makes them have feel no pain. Is it just me or is it impossible to kill these things:angry: It jus flies aroud and takes a shield drone off when u actually wound it!!!!


----------



## Johnathanswift

May I suggest an inquiry into the new space marine librarians, particularly tigrus(sp?).


----------



## BlackApostleVilhelm

how best to kill GW's poster boys:biggrin:


----------



## Galahad

I'm sorry I took so much time away from this. It was starting to get frustrating and felt too mcuh like work. But I've had people ask me to pick it back up, so we;ll give it a try.

Normally I like to spread it out...if I do Eldar one week I have to wait a while before I go back to them. But there's been enough time and enough requests, it looks like this week, the return of Versus will be The Wraithlord

Suggestions Pool As Of Week 23
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Avatar of Khaine **
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Infantry *
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius *
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Grey Knights *
Leman Russ*
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Soulgrinder
The Plaguefather
Ghazghkull Thraka*
Bloodthirster
Skulltaker
The Changeling
The Deathwing
Genestealers
Scarab Swarms
Tank Armies
Whirlwinds
Tau Crisis Battlesuits/Commanders *
Berzerkers *
Thousand Sons
Noise Marines
Librarians
Marine Equicelants


----------



## Dessel_Ordo

Broadsides... what can close with them fast enough w/out dying along the way... most transports dont work, outflanking units will get shot up on the way in, and deepstriking puts you in the middle of shooty hell, besides, most units cant assault off the deepstrike anyways.


----------



## gdog

Versus marneus calgar (spelling?)


----------



## CommanderAnthor

Versus marneus calgar with honour guards squad!:so_happy:


----------



## Galahad

Dessel_Ordo said:


> Broadsides... what can close with them fast enough w/out dying along the way... most transports dont work, outflanking units will get shot up on the way in, and deepstriking puts you in the middle of shooty hell, besides, most units cant assault off the deepstrike anyways.


PLEASE remember to look at the first post in the thread for a list of ones we've already done. Broadsides were the very first Versus article we did (which hasn't stopped someone from suggesting them every couple months)

And if we're to keep tis thing going now that I'm finally back at itk we really do need more suggestions. New ideas as well as requests for ones already on the list. THe more people ask for it the more likely it will get used.

Anyhow, back to it. Since we've been dealing in specifics mostly, I figured I'd broaden things up and go for something a little differently. rather than an exact model or unit, this week we're going to take on Jump Infantry as a whole. Not just assault squads or vanguard or raptors, but jumpers in general. Should be fun.

Suggestions Pool As Of Week 24
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Avatar of Khaine **
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Infantry *
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius *
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Grey Knights *
Leman Russ *
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Ghazghkull Thraka *
The Plaguefather
Bloodthirster
Skulltaker
The Changeling
The Deathwing
Genestealers
Scarab Swarms
Tank Armies
Whirlwinds
Berzerkers *
Thousand Sons
Noise Marines
Librarians
Marine Equivelants
Marneus Calgar *


----------



## Underground Heretic

I would like to see how people plan to kill crisis suits, berzerkers and the new loyalist terminators with thunder hammers (besides saturation of fire).


----------



## Galahad

Excellent suggestions.

However, for the new TH/SS Termies, why not just pop over to Week Ten: Versus Space Marine/Chaos Terminators and bump the thread with something like "Now that storm shields have been upgraded, does anyone have any suggestions on taking down SM assault termies?"

I may grumble about threadomancy sometimes, but the whole point of the Versus index on the first page is so people can find and post on old targets in case they have new questions or new rules


----------



## Dessel_Ordo

sorry, forgot to check archive, feeling stupid now...


----------



## Galahad

It's alright. 
Like I said, someone suggests broadsides every couple months


----------



## Cato Sicarius

Vs. Ork Biker/Nob Bikers. They are seriously hard with their armour save, their automatic cover save, and their Toughness. Their toughness isn't bad I suppose, but their guns are pretty good.


----------



## Galahad

By the way, speaking of feeling stupid for not checking the archive, I just had to delete Tau Battlesuits off the current suggestion list because I completely forgot it was done in Week 13.

So yeah, don;t feel bad about suggesting one we already did, I space on it too ;-)


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## BlackApostleVilhelm

seeing as how i play chaos here's a few:

Obliterators
Landraiders


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## Cato Sicarius

Yeah Oblits would be a good thing to cover. Popping behind a tank and blasting it to smithereens with a lascannon is not cool.


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## surreal-mind

vs grey knight terminators
vs thud cannon


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## Hespithe

Or... simply suggest options that are rumored to be... 

How would you guys overcome Rapid Fire-3 Lasguns in the hands of cheaper Guardsmen?

A force of 200+ Guardsmen coming in from the flanks on turn two?

9 Leman Russ battle tanks that can fire all weapons (battle cannons, hull mounted, and sponson) in the same turn regardless of type, and while on the move?

These are the rumors... How do you handle it?

Just an idea to expand the thread.


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## Wraithian

How about, "Versus Flamers?" Not the man portable type, but the warp-spawned, deepstrike-in-your-face-then-vomit-napalm variety.

Everyone that I've played against has said something along the lines of, "I just don't know how to counter those things."


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## BlackApostleVilhelm

> Yeah Oblits would be a good thing to cover. popping behind a tank and blasting it to smithereens with a lascannon is not cool.


ah the joys of playing chaos


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## Spot The Grot

I agree with sicarius i would like to see one for ork bikers too.


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## Deneris

As a Thousand Sons player, I'd love to see how people deal with them... so I second the Thousand Sons suggestion from a few pages back.


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## Galahad

Excellent suggestions, guys! I mean that. Not just new ideas but seconds and thirds on others. That's great!

Unfortunately, Hesp, I'm not going to do anything on rumors...It might not be a bad idea in the rumor forums, but in Rules and Tactics I like to keep it current without delving too far into the future...not until there's enough information from leaked codices and whatnot for people to actually *know* what will be.

But if any of that stuff ends up existing I'll gladly throw it in the list.

In the meantime, let's see how people deal with Ork Warbikes!


Suggestions Pool As Of Week 25
Asterix (*) denotes units that have been suggested more than once.
Sniper Drones
Mephiston
Avatar of Khaine **
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver *
Jump Infantry *
Kharn the Betrayer
Tigurius *
Master of the Ravenwing
Abaddon the Despoiler
Howling Banshees
The Deathwing
Bikes/Jetbikes
Dreadnoughts
Defilers
Tau Stealth Teams
Ork Skullhammer
Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders
Grey Knights *
Leman Russ *
Death Cult Assassins
Greater Daemons
Ghazghkull Thraka *
The Plaguefather
Bloodthirster
Skulltaker
The Changeling
The Deathwing
Genestealers
Scarab Swarms
Tank Armies
Whirlwinds
Berzerkers **
Thousand Sons *
Noise Marines
Librarians
Marine Equivelants
Marneus Calgar *
Land Raiders
Chaos Obliterators *
Thunderfire Cannon
Flamers of Tzeentch


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## LordWaffles

Wraithian said:


> How about, "Versus Flamers?" Not the man portable type, but the warp-spawned, deepstrike-in-your-face-then-vomit-napalm variety.
> 
> Everyone that I've played against has said something along the lines of, "I just don't know how to counter those things."


You can't. I mean I suppose you could keep your units near the edge of the table, or spaced out, but otherwise they're just going to deepstrike and kill you.


And I want a tactica on beating the damn eldar. Most specifically howling banshees that come out of a flying, unkillable tank with rerollable cover saves thanks to Eldrad, the "shows up to every minor barfight" hq.


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## Vashtek

LordWaffles said:


> You can't. I mean I suppose you could keep your units near the edge of the table, or spaced out, but otherwise they're just going to deepstrike and kill you.


Method one: Win roll, choose to go second, deploy your army in reserve. Even if you are forced into going 1st you should put vulnerable units into reserve.

Method two: Put all your guys in tanks

Method three: put all your guys in a corner but screened by a thin line of disposable troops placed about 6" in front of them in an arc. That way he can either try to get at your expensive troops but risk deep strike mishaps or shoot the stuff you are prepared to sacrifice.


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## Steel Nathan

I'm third for those Thousand Sons bastards. 

My friend plays pure Tzeench for Chaos, and he's getting better and better every battle with them :scare:.


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## Refyougee

Would it be possible to have a thread about Reserve Denial Eldar lists? (IE 2-4 Wave Serpents, 1-2 Autarches, Fire Prisms, etc) It's an exceptionally mobile army that is pretty effective against alot of comers because it always gets first strike.


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## bishop5

I second the Daemon Flamers; they are naaasty. 
Also seconded for the Chaos Obliterators; I always have a tough time killing them.


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## Tgoodman

I'd like to see how people deal with the New Terminator's with storm shields. The 2+ regular save and then the 3+ invulnerable save makes them very nasty.

It would be a good thread.


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## Underground Heretic

Let's see how to kill the Bloody-Handed God's Avatar!


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## Blue Liger

I'd like to see a Vs Lelith Hesperax and Wych Retinue Or Vs Wych Cult Army and a Vs Webway Portals they are quite difficult to shut out once you have 2 or more and units popping up all over the place.

And also a Vs Incubi they are mean with a high Init and Power weapons with multiple attacks in CC.

Or Vs Mandrakes


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## Dafistofmork

Vs shokk attack gun. with the potential to suck anything it touches into the warp(if you roll 12 for strength), as well as firing crazed snotlings into the enemy (any other result), and with the large template, this is the bane of tanks, heavy troops and light infantry, and mc, and prety much anything else. yes, its unprdictable, but for 95pts its bloody brilliant. it also alows 1 dread to be a troops chioce rather than heavy.


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## High Marshall Mendark

How to blow the crap out of entrenched vindicators!!


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## MidnightSun

Versus...Champions of Chaos

Lucius, Typhus, Kharn and Ahriman would all fit into this category.


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## Suntalon

vs Deathguard


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## Blue Liger

Vs Mandrakes


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## bishop5

vs Vanguard Veterans with heroic intervention and a nice list of fancy death-dealing weaponry.


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## tssxxx

vs NOB BIKERS NOT WARBIKERS NOB BIKERS


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## Bobgenrut

I think a vses assassins of the inquisition. All types or specific ones, they can be quite pesky.

Level my daemon :grin:.


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## Ferik

Well in the last little while I have noticed alot of people despise Thunderhammer Termies and the old standbye shotting them to bits doesn't really work as well so thought they could be a suggestion.


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## TheKingElessar

I want to hear how we could kill a...Defiler. Please.


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## oreomaster3

units with force weapons


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## Ferik

Imperial Guard Tank Squadrons I can see them being a problem for many armies especially the Basilisk Squadron.


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## Tim/Steve

Ku'gath... damn he's impossible to kill


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## bishop5

vs ... the Imperial Guard Infantry Wave!


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## Ferik

Have Bloodcrushers been mentioned yet?


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## Lash Machine

Ku gath is very upsetting...


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## Asmodeun

Hmm. . . leman russ and varients, specially since they can field up to 9 now :shok:


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## Culler

I'd still like to see one for the jetbike seer council.


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## heartoffury

I have a few I'd like to see, so I'll add to these existing requests in the hopes that they will stand out more when New Thread Day rolls around:
Abaddon
Grey Knights
Tunderfire Cannon
(Unless of course they're done in sequence, then I'm wasting my breath.)


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## oreomaster3

this topic is dead right? if so name this topic to be a database instead of asking for more propositions


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## Asmodeun

Yeah, and un-sticky it! it hasn't been updated for months.


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## Franko1111

grey knights man I want to see how people would deal with the army that has the skills of the grey knight


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## oreomaster3

oh btw how to kill rhinos (like 11 of them, sisters of battle rhino spam)


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## Galahad

I haven't really had time to dedicate to this in a while, so I'm going to lock it for now. If I end up with time or a suitable volunteer I'll re-open it then


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