# Chaos help!!



## Flowfade (Mar 11, 2008)

Ok, so i have roughly a 1200 point chaos army to play with:
15 Marines
5 Possessed Marines
Rhino
Chaos Lord
1 Obliterator
7 Khorne Berzerkers

Can someone please give insight on how to configure this so i don't get whipped? so far, Imperial Gaurd and Tau both got me really bad. I'm just not sure what weapons to give what troops and how to best use it to my advantage. thanks for the help!!

Flow


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

OK, I'm gonna be no help to you directly, sorry, because I don't know (haven't got the new CSM codex) but I do know people will want info on what your models are actually armed with, what upgrades you have on the rhino, etc.

That will really help people with working out the best squad configurations and indeed tactics.

Good luck!


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## d'hargetezan (Mar 1, 2008)

Start with what Red Orc said and myself and the others will walk you through it from there. If you havn't yet decided what they have go for a mix of diffarent upgrades. It is best to be ready for anything. half the time I havn't got a clue hwo I'm going to face.


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## Flowfade (Mar 11, 2008)

Chaos Marines:
plasma gun
lascannon 
Mark of Tzeentch
(with an aspiring champion with all the upgrades + combi-melta)

Berzerkers
(skull champion with power fist and melta's)
icon of khorne (have no clue about the difference on icons and marks and what they do to the group just yet)

Possessed
Aspiring Champion

Chaos Lord
Mark of Khorne
Daemon wep
combi-flamer
personal icon (once again, confused on marks and icons)
melta bombs
Daemonic steed
wargear upgrade (terminator armor and the such)

a note to the lord: i go a slaanesh build for necron hunting ;D

Rhino
dozer blade
extra armor
daemonic possession
havoc launcher

obliterator
he doesn't need anything in the first place 

i am aware that i have a relatively small force and the only way it's close to 1k points is spoofing everything all the way  but i figure i could somehow make this work. thank you guys for your help!! as you can probably tell, i seriously need the help and maybe i won't lose the next few games.....

Flow


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## TH3F4LL3NT3MPL4R (Jan 6, 2008)

OK first ditch the PF on the skull champ (I1 bezerkers should not exist)
second: zerkers come with mark of khorne already no need for the icon
third: can't have both termie armour AND steed it is either one or the other
Fourth: ditch all the Personal icons, you have no deamons they are useless w/out deamons
Fourth: drop deamonic possesion on the rhino, it is kind of a waste of pts.

this might give you enough for another oblit
hope this helps


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## Damnation (Feb 28, 2008)

Flowfade said:


> Chaos Marines:
> plasma gun
> lascannon
> Mark of Tzeentch
> (with an aspiring champion with all the upgrades + combi-melta)


make this squad Thousand sons (for the great inv save) upgrade one to a sorcerer with bolt of change then put them into a rhino with a havoc launcher. (dont forget your sorcerer can fire his spell out of the hatch). Drop the lascannon and the palsma gun, you now have inferno bolters with the slow and purposeful rule can move and shoot so disembark when practical and use rhino like moving terrain (remember also you can move right forward and each turn move back a bit and still shoot your bolters).


Flowfade said:


> Berzerkers
> (skull champion with power fist and melta's)
> icon of khorne (have no clue about the difference on icons and marks and what they do to the group just yet)


Possition this squd behind the Rhino for a cover save. march them forward untill you do a drive by with the above spell


Flowfade said:


> Possessed
> Aspiring Champion


This squads tactics will have to be decided after you make the roll on the possesed's abilities 


Flowfade said:


> Chaos Lord
> Mark of Khorne
> Daemon wep
> combi-flamer
> ...


Either Drop the terminator armour and have the steed or visa versa cant have both. So it will be a frontal assault from the flank or deepstrike in the rear (if possible). Also you dont need a personal icon if no deamons but it may be usefull if you drop the termie armour and want your obliterator somewhere usefull without deepstrike dangers.


Flowfade said:


> a note to the lord: i go a slaanesh build for necron hunting ;D
> 
> Rhino
> dozer blade
> ...


All good here 

I would suggest Next units should be more CSM or cult troop choices.
then a Dreadnaught or two followed by a predator. then a deamon prince.

Goodluck.


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## Casmiricus (Mar 6, 2008)

Now I see your problem right here. You're playing Chaos.


Just kidding. You know what makes a Guard player shake in their flak-booties more than anything else? A Defiler. We're not used to the enemy having guns that can rival ours!

That's just a little FYI. Listen to the actual chaos players for tactical advice.


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## Flowfade (Mar 11, 2008)

Thanks, i see where you guys are coming from. though the problem is not the points limit, it's my army limit. these are all the models of chaos i currently own, so i have a slim pickings on what i have. i bought the starter set of chaos plus one obliterator, all i could budget just now. my question is if i could perhaps paint my standard chaos marines a certain way or what to make them passable for thousand sons? i love the thousand sons, but the models are currently not in production until a plastic version come out. so, any ideas on how to make standards look like thousand sons? thanks for all the input guys, i know i'm very limited at the moment, but i'm grasping the concept a little better.

Flow


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## d'hargetezan (Mar 1, 2008)

I beleieve you could. In my opinion chaos has no real ordered set of what the models *Must* look like. Paint them the proper colors and refrain from thing that look like mutations. You'll be ok. leave out the steed, I have found them to be useless. With Terminator armor you can deep strike and do just as much damage. I would also get rid of the combi flamer, combi weapons make you pay 5 pts for one use, not a good bargin if you ask me, if you got the starter set you should have a defiler, I would suggest using it. Cas is right, the Defiler is one of the most versitile models in the heavy support section. In the end Chaos follows what you want to do, it's your choice.


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## Janus Blackheart (Jan 24, 2008)

You can Paint your Reg marines like thousand sons and then eventually Bits order the old tzeench shoulder pads. I still use these older models in my army(even though i do dig the look of the new ones.)But your original way of having them witht he lascannon and mark of tzeench isnt bad either. I would also run the Lord with the berserkers. On his own he will either not see combat or get shot up. You could also give him a jump pack and manuever him carefully. Try and get a second obliterator as the one might not last to long especially if your playing tau or gaurd. Just use cover well and get into HtH where you will do the most damage. Dont focus on the tanks too much. If you kill all of his troops and he just has a vehicle two left you are on your way to victory!


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## Flowfade (Mar 11, 2008)

i see. though the starter i picked up happened to be the one without the defiler sadly. the shoulder pads i got from the starter are the newer ones with horns and such sticking out of them. would i probably have to cut those off to make it look decent? or could i just say that my particular group of them got a little mutated before the spell enacted? the berzerker heads look much closer to the real thousand sons, though i only have 7 of them. the terminator armor doesn't sound half bad. most games he does get shot up badly. someone told me chaos has trouble in long range, is that completely true? i wouldn't think so, though i do know their strength is close combat. and can someone explain the difference between marks and icons? still completely out of the loop on that. is it the group is affected by the mark, and one soldier has the icon effects (though none from mark) with the deep strike buff? 

Flow


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## cyberspy019er (Mar 10, 2008)

ok, if you feel up to converting your standard Marines into 1k sons go for it. otherwise thats a fine set up there. maybe go for melta gun over plasma. depends on the range you want them at.

Berzerkers; ditch the power fist and opt for the PW and theres not much need for a personal icon unless you want to deep strike your termie lord or obliterator in for fire support. which can be useful. on second thought. I would keep it. unless your marines are going to be on the front lines...

possessed; I personally don't bother upgrading one to an asp champ but i would definitely give them a slaanesh Icon. I5 is going to be getting them striking first on most units.

For the lord I'd ditch the Icon , steed (you'll have to ditch the steed if you want the termie armor) and the combi wep. their points for things that aren't necessary.

I personally like daemonically possessing my rhinos. just so I can say "ignored" when people shake or stun it. and seeing as its only 5 point more then extra armor, not horribly expensive for what it does. give it a havoc launcher as well and it'll be set.

I would put the berzerkers in the rhino as well since they could use some armored protection. seeing as everything else has an inv save. or at least have them running behind it for the cover like damnation said.


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## Damnation (Feb 28, 2008)

Nurgle = +1t
Slaanesh =+1I
Tzeentch = +1 Inv Save
Khorne = +1 A

Cults have more than this though and are worth the extra points in my opinion.

You really need to buy the new codex.


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## d'hargetezan (Mar 1, 2008)

Go for it, Chaos is the best army for conversions, you have the power!


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## Flowfade (Mar 11, 2008)

Damnation, i do have the new codex, i'm just a little retarded since i'm new :biggrin: hmm, just realized that i only have close combat wep and a pistol for the arms. don't think that would work too good for 1k sons. and the daemonic possession saved me from 6 glancings and 3 penetrating hits against a tau army. ha ha, he was rolling horribly!! although i have the new codex (i think, i'll double check), what do you mean by cult groups? like noise marines, plague marines, 1k sons and the such?

Flow


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## Syko515 (Jan 22, 2008)

all i have to say is that whom ever mentioned dreadnoughts should rethink the crazy rulings on them. personally i do not and will never run one until that rule is gone.


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## koosbeer (Feb 25, 2008)

Flowfade: Yeah, the traitor legions are those guys. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Space_Marines and go to "Forces of CSM". There is a good summary of who is who.


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## Stormbolter88 (Dec 18, 2007)

1. Make your friends play games with a lesser point total, its not very fair if they make you stretch out a 1000 point army into a watered down 1500 army.

2. To make 1,000 Sons just make a banner (unit standard, flag on pole) with a chaos/egyptian kind of theme and stick it on your chaos marines unit.

3. When I sat down to make my own chaos army I noticed two things. First, chaos has some of the best troops, even better than loyal marines, which I play also. And second, Chaos tends to have a lack of long range anti armor units. So, the next units you buy should fill that gap, either more Obliterators, or Havocs with Missile Launchers, or some vehicles with big guns.

4. I'm pretty sure that Personal Icons are only used to prevent deep strike or summoned units from scattering or something like that. Marks, on the other hand, give the entire unit a special bonus (someone listed them above already), if one member has the mark. I think Mark of Khorne is best, but I think most people consider Mark of Nurgle to be the best mark.

5. Chaos Terminators are a good unit type!

6. I think Chaos is the best army but it is also one of the easiest to do badly with, it seems like the units available just tend to tempt new players into building an army with glaring holes its in abilities, so the bottom line is that you chose a good army but will have to be very careful in putting it together with the right mix of units. Remember to consider the shooting ability of your army, the close combat ability, and the long range/anti-tank ability. Try not to be too weak in any of those three.


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## Andros (Dec 10, 2007)

Your lord can't have Termie Armour and a Steed at the same time which has been said, but he can't have Melta Bombs neither..... the only equipment he can have while in Termie armour is things like Lighting Claws, (claw) Twin linked bolt gun, combi weapon, power fist (handy if you play annoying dark eldar, most will strike before you wanyway <.<; ) a Mark of something, (I choose Tzeentch alot, 4+invunerable is very handy :laugh: )

And 1000 Sons rock, they always have 24" shooting range, AP3 bolters (SM players hate the guys) and the Sorceror can deal out a hell of a lot of pain (Bolt of Change, Doombolt, etc etc, Winds of Chaos is great against horde armies ((nids, orks, guard)) always wounds on four plus with no armour or cover saves, but is only flamer template range, (((glancing veichles on 4+no matter waht))) )

Marks abilites: 

Khorne: +1 Attack (berserkers get WS 5 and Furious Charge, so drop the Fist)
Tzeentch: +1 to Invunerable save (so squads with no invunerable save turn to 3+armour and 5+invun, Termies to a 2+armour and 4+invun)
Slaanesh: +1 Initiative(sp) And the Daemon Weapon , Blissgiver, rocks (Instant Death from one touch :fuck: )
Nurgle: +1 Toughness (Bikers go up to Toughness 6! :shok: and if you get Typhus, god, Manreaper = Force Weapon! :shok: )
Chaos Glory: Unlike normal Marines, we do run away, hence why we are Ld 9 not Ld8 on basic Marine. This Icon lets you re-roll a failed check, but if you have an army made up of the expensive 1000 Sons, Khorne Berserkers, Plague Marines, or Noise Marines (sound weapons rock!) then this is usless altogether, seeing as each of them is fearless........

Hope this helped.


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## Flowfade (Mar 11, 2008)

Andros, 
your post helped bunches. and i think the banner idea will be the easiest and most effective to convert. gota go to church now, but i'll beback later to post more. thank you for the input adnros, it has helped immensely!!!

Flow


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## Andros (Dec 10, 2007)

I have my days :grin:

Besides, what better thing to do when I can convert a Church follower into the Path of Chaos? :shok: Sounds wrong, EREBUS!! Where are you when we need a sly little moob!?


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## Flowfade (Mar 11, 2008)

ha!! so i got into another match of chaos vs. tau. and won this time! apparently tau don't like 15 1k sons all in a row playing target practice. or their saves. plus i blew up his hammerhead with my first shot with bolt of change iwth my aspiring sorcerer. he was not happy with me. though i realized that i need another model or troop to go with my army. what would you guys say: defiler, predator, or what troop choice? would like to keep it relatively cheap and worth the buy, as i'm still out of a job yet  

Flow


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## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

Spaaaaaaaawns! 35 pts for 3 wounds, and T5, a bargain...run em up to the tau firing line, and hope they dont get shot down =)....but that leaves the Rhino filled berzerkes out of Harmzway!


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## Absolute035 (Jan 13, 2008)

Bogg said:


> Spaaaaaaaawns! 35 pts for 3 wounds, and T5, a bargain...run em up to the tau firing line, and hope they dont get shot down =)....but that leaves the Rhino filled berzerkes out of Harmzway!


slow and purposeful with no armor save (and 40 pts not 35), Tau can certainly deal with these. But they will be in trouble if spawn get into combat lol.


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## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

well have 2 groups of them, then =)...and keep em backed up with a raptor squad and a demon Prince all visible...(Suicide mission..maybe) but it is enuff if one of thees units make it,so now they have to choose which one is most deadly....id say the spawns any day....atleast vs tau-


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## Flowfade (Mar 11, 2008)

ack! more close combat? ha ha, that's 75% of my effective army. and 100% of my secondary army (nids)!! wow, i was hoping for more gaurdsmen screaming against the defiler, or someone asking what's wrong with me for not mentioning a daemon prince, or asking why i don't get havocs or something. the spawns would be fun... but even more fun is how i can make their troops my spawns! i found i can run my "lord" (i made him out of extra pieces and stole a rack from my rhino pieces for skulls) can fit the bill as a sorcerer. on top of a 1k sons aspiring sorcerer, the 1k sons themselves, i am beginning to find that i do better ranged for the moment. as long as i can hide from tau until he drops his firewarriors, chrisis suit, and commander all right were my berzerkers and rhino are again. ha ha ha, the look on his face was priceless!!


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

My opinions will differ from others, but I'm working from a purely undivided concept...


Flowfade said:


> 15 Marines


Run 10 models strong, Champion with Power Fist and Glory Icon. Heavy weapons as neccessary. Cheap and affective; both shooting and melee. 


Flowfade said:


> 5 Possessed Marines


Worthless. To random and expensive for what they do. Use them for "counts as" for another 5 Marines models so you can have 2 10 man squads of Marines. 


Flowfade said:


> Rhino


Use wear appropriate, throw on the Havoc Launcher for good times. Possession can be really fun if using to transport.


Flowfade said:


> Chaos Lord


Still plenty of combinations to work with. The Mark of Khorne + Deamon Weapon can put out a tremendous amount of attacks, great for supporting Berserkers.


Flowfade said:


> 1 Obliterator


Never liked running with just one, but a great mobile tank hunter. Can get killed fairly easy, make sure to keep supported or concealed by other troops. 


Flowfade said:


> 7 Khorne Berzerkers


MUST HAVE PF. You need to extra umpfh to take on units that would otherwise crush you; Dreadnaughts, Wraithlords, etc. You have plenty other standard attacks with the 6 standard guys, but the PF Champ will make sure they are ALWAYS affective. 

You have a very H2H list, and few anti-Tank long range options. If you continue to biuld your list, fill in the gaps.


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## Flowfade (Mar 11, 2008)

ok, it sounds like a good plan revelations. i like your train of thought here. i've compiled a more recent list for the viewing, perhaps it's a little better than the last.

Chaos Lord
Mark of khorne/slaanesh
deamon wep
wargear upgrade

opt. replacement (for my lord):
Chaos Sorcerer
Mark of Tzeentch
wargear upgrade
familiar
Bolt of change
Wind of chaos
Gift of chaos

14 thousand sons (with AS for a 15 man group)
personal icon
aspiring sorcerer (for a 15 man 1k sons group)
bolt of change

5 possessed

rhino
daemon possession
havoc launcher


considering my updated list, what would make sense right now? a defiler, havocs, noise marines, anything of what i don't have (as stated above) would be much appreciated for my next purchase. i would say that this build is working waaay better than the first. thank you for all the help guys! it has made my matches much easier to win, and i have been pulling more respect around my little group!!

Flow


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## Absolute035 (Jan 13, 2008)

It's just not economical to have BoC, GoC, and WoC on your sorcerer, IMO.


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## pyroanarchist (Feb 29, 2008)

First off, are you planning on themeing the army at all, or is it a Black Legion type all gods working together army? I realize that with the new codex there are no bonus's to themeing your army, but it does make for better gameplay when fluff is observed. In fluff standards Khorne hates Slaanesh and Nurgle hates Tzeentch if you didn't know yet. I personally don't like to run any army with those combinations, and also prefer not to run Khornate troops (esp. Berzerkers) near Tzeentch either because of Khornes hatred for psychers in general. If your ultimate plan is to theme it that would be helpful to know to help with your decisions for future purchases. If not and you're going Black Legion style than anything goes.

A defiler is always a good buy because of the versatility of it. It can sit back and shoot the crap out of an enemy, or move, fleet, and use a devastating assault. I personally hate spawns. I will never pay points for a spawn but I do like GoC'ing enemy troops into them. They do serve as a good distraction though. If you run spawn they may absorb some fire that would have been placed on your other footsloggers heading across the board. Plague Marines are amazing against hoard armies as they have the ability to hold up squads for several turns before finally dying. A Deamon Prince is always a very valuable asset to any Chaos player. A Chosen squad may be helpful to you. They can have great weapon upgrades and infiltrate.

I love Dred's. Some people hate them because they may end up killing half of your own army, but its Chaos and I love it. In a serious play situation I would be a little more leary of them, but Dred's have amazing firepower and great CC ability for a low point cost. If you run them right, and keep them out of LoS of most of your army they can be a great asset even when going crazy.


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## silvarius (Mar 21, 2008)

TH3F4LL3NT3MPL4R said:


> OK first ditch the PF on the skull champ (I1 bezerkers should not exist)
> second: zerkers come with mark of khorne already no need for the icon
> third: can't have both termie armour AND steed it is either one or the other
> Fourth: ditch all the Personal icons, you have no deamons they are useless w/out deamons
> ...


do this and drop the dozer blade on the rhino
p.s just so you know TH3F4LL3NT3MPL4R the icons give you bonuses e.g the chaos glory gives you morale test re-rolls


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## Flowfade (Mar 11, 2008)

well, it looks like i'm running a more black legion style army. from game to game i'll switch out which guys have what icons to be more suitable to the enemy. not really worried about fluff that much, as all the people i play with play for fun. they were out of defilers sadly at the store, so i picked up some terminators instead. i figured they would be nasty support capable of just about anything i would need and they have nice saves. with a mark of tzeentch down to a 4+ inv save. i'll be updating the list again soon, as i've been giving much thought into my army and what is becoming the style i like to play. i'll give the list i currently have a run through and see if it works at all. would plasma pistols be worth the points and risk for the firepower? i just realized how nasty those things could be! 

Flow


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## Stormbolter88 (Dec 18, 2007)

For your next choice I think Havocs with Lasers/Missile Launchers would be best strategically, and cheapest.

Noise Marines with sonic weapons would be fun, but are expensive.

Defiler with lots of close combat weapons is also fun, and deadly, but also expensive.

Oh and when I say cheap or expensive I mean in real world money!


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## abaddonthedespoir (Jan 28, 2008)

Haven't read the full thread, but don't give deamonic possesion and extra armour. It's crap. Deamonic possesion already ignores both of the results.


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