# Chaos Nerf: Rumours about the new chaos codex



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Well looks like There are only 5 seperate lists now. Black legion and all the rest coming under one banner and the four different gods.

Also DAEMON NERF
looks like theres only 2 types of daemons, Lesser and Greater.


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Urm Jigg may i ask where you got this info from?
Just seems totally out there when it comes to reduxes, but never know with GW :?


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

It had to happen. The number of IW's at the finals was a joke. I was actually thinking of taking them - not good...

Whats the score with daemons then? Lesser and Greater? Do you means they're scraping furies etc?


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Well in the process of trying to kill IW they kill all the other undevided legions and daemon redux screws over word bearers as myself :? 
Doesnt have to be so radical in theory and it doesnt make a damn worth of sense fluff wise either
Of course again this IS GW


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

I think It's plain obvious IW's needed a nerf, although It will be Interesting to see how the rest of the codex turns out. Looking at the recent codex updates they do seem to be concentrating on balancing out all of the races to a level(ish) playing field trying to knock out the copy/paste lists and making players really work hard to make a competetive army encouraging the combined arms approach rather than the typical one trick pony lists.
Apparently the BA's are also having a chapter aproved type update via WD Canada Issues 13+14, should be Interesting to see what that throws up.....


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

I do like the idea of like limiting the legions yeah, but killing the undevided legions by making them all under a banner doesnt seem to make sense to me... just me though, the daemons, ive no idea what they mean by greater and lesser only, the fast attact section of daemons and the troops are lesser, and greater are the Hq's, they getting rid of possesed and oblits and raptors the daemon kin?, hell if thats it then might as well say they didnt have a heresey at all then


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## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

While I am a massive fan of having lots of options, I do think the Tau, Tyranid and Eldar codicies are better balanced than some of their previous incarnations. While this hurts from a fluff perspective, it may make game balance more than a pipedream. I was a bit miffed when I saw that Craftworlds had gone by the wayside, but then considering what people were doing with them, it was better for the game as a whole. Having all the options in the world mean nothing if one option is so powerful that everyone gravitates towards it and ignores the rest. I've actually seen more variations on eldar lists since the new codex came out than I did when you had a lot more choices. Now it's a question of "What do I want in my eldar army" instead of "Do I want to play Alaitoc or Ulthwe?"


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## Wanderingrogue (Mar 10, 2007)

unfortuantly its the way of the codex now... either very specific (da) or very general (eldar). But hey chaos with no abusable special rules ..al la IW , can only be a good thing. And this is from an AL player.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

DaemonsRus, you may actually want to hear more than vagarisms before you get cranky and decide that this newest update invalidates both the playability and lore of Chaos.


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Yeah uber was thinking about that and think ill be quiet on teh subject for a little until more is released 
Sorry for teh crankiness :?


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## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

If you would be so kind Jig, could you direct us to the source of this information?


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Poo! 
Sounds like the hundred cultists may get put back in the loft, Its a shame if we all have to suffer, due to IW cheese.

Are there any solid facts on this re-dux and Dakka asked where is this coming from?


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## hephesto (Feb 24, 2007)

I hope they don't destroy the great variaty that you can get with chaos 
marines right now (don't want my dreams of one day having a 2000 pts
army from each major legion getting crushed)

There have however been a few other model related rumors;

Plastic Terminators (I believe some gw guy has confirmed these were being made)
Plastic Dreadnaught (finally)
Plastic army commander (makes a lott of sense)
More Daemon Engine (maybe plastic, probably related to the armageddon codex)


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Guy i know has seen one of the codex mock ups. We were talking about it today, and are hoping that the daemons thing is just that they have not yet been added properly to that incarnation.

Basically he said that the copy he saw All lesser daemons had the same stats, so no diff between Bloodletter or furies for example, and all greater daemons were one set of stats.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

They'd never do that. That's just stupid, and would infuriate the entirety of the veteran Chaos playerbase.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Noooooooo Nooooooooo, they will kill chaos if they lump all Undivided together, all you will get is heaps of BL and IW because they easy to paint and hte interesting Undivided legions will die.

Plus getting ride of Obliterators, Raptors and making all deamons the same is probably the most stupid I have ever heard (Yes it even beats the HE Intrigue At Court rule).

Its GW, its just the thought of thing they would do.

It looks as if my dream of doing a Nightlords army is going to die.  

Chaos: The new orks. i.e. dead.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Unlike you, I'm going to want a more official source than Jigplum's reading of an internal work-in-progress codex before I panic.

A mock-up is a plan, which could be anything from it being a late-stage draft, to the main outline of the final product, with arbitrary values for the fields they haven't finalised. Given that the Chaos codex is not due for months, the latter is far more likely than the former.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

True but it fits with the sort of the thing that GW do on a fairly regual basis.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

No, it doesn't. Your hyperpessimistic view will do nothing to make you happy in life.


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

As unfortunate as it seems, this IS Gw we're dealing with, but ive taken a breather from my freak out, and yeah id like to see more info as it comes along and what looks more final before i freak out


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

uberschveinen said:


> No, it doesn't. Your hyperpessimistic view will do nothing to make you happy in life.


I seem to have done ok untill now, however lets not get into personal insults shall we.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Well to add feul to the fire, Brimstone over at Warseer (who for those who don't know is usually spot on about stuff) had this to say:



> There are no Chaos power specific unit choices in the forthcoming Chaos Codex army list
> 
> Which is not to say they don't exist.


Now THAT is a loaded statement if there ever was one....


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

If thats the case in the next World Campaign Khorne players might as well show up to the games naked and drunk, because the end result will be the same.

Why is it that the newer codexs are getting more variation in them and chaos is getting less.

Yea the IW's were over powered but that can be changed quite easily. There is no need to kill the entire army.


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

The Wraithlord said:


> > There are no Chaos power specific unit choices in the forthcoming Chaos Codex army list
> >
> > Which is not to say they don't exist.
> 
> ...



>> What, by the fact that it the undivided codex? Better waiting for the dex to come out, before folk start wigging out about favourite legion gettin shafted. Its uot when, end of the year?


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## tau air caste (Mar 5, 2007)

From what a couple of manager friends of mine have heard the codex will be undivided only followed by seperate god books (khorne ect), There will be new units (some kind of light walker), cultists and possibly some other beast type unit (although the beast thing might have been them saying thats what they wanted).


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## Inquisition_Symphony (Mar 8, 2007)

where do you guys go to get your info first of all?


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

A generalization of daemons and less options would bring it in line with whets happened to both Eldar and DA.

The true test of GWs intentions will be seen in the next codex.

But my bets is less options and less power gaming.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Jacobite said:


> If thats the case in the next World Campaign Khorne players might as well show up to the games naked and drunk, because the end result will be the same.
> 
> Why is it that the newer codexs are getting more variation in them and chaos is getting less.
> 
> Yea the IW's were over powered but that can be changed quite easily. There is no need to kill the entire army.


You didn't know about the split codex? Well, that would explain the moody outlook.

You're getting either a codex for undivided and two gods per codex, or undivided and a god per codex. I don't know about you, but it seems to me that Chaos will be almost obscenely variable.

Also, because of this added complexity, I try not to take the Chaos rumours too seriously, since they're probably made of incomplete information.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> Also, because of this added complexity, I try not to take the Chaos rumours too seriously, since they're probably made of incomplete information.


So very true. The fact remains that while a fun topic to discuss, none of us really know what is going down until someone actually sees the final print of the new book and even then most of us won't really know what to believe until we read it ourselves.

Now to find a way to get GW to gimme a final copy right now.......


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Im just really worried is all, GW seem to be doing a bit of stu[id stuff recently so this could be the next step on the downward spiral


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Yeah, unsure what GW will pull.. but probably wait till there is more solid info about it out there, of course this is after i had my freak out and can actually think now! :lol:


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Some rumours that Reinnon over at Warseer heard while at Carnage:



> ok ok, heres a very brief list of the rumours i heard:
> 
> 1) Thousand Sons have had an "extensive" overhaul
> 2) AP3 bolters were pretty much confirmed as appearing, general opinion was in line of special weapons we will get "bolter ammo" - it wasn't said if the AP3 were inferno bolts.
> ...


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

intresting Wraith, very intresting, looking to see how things turn out


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Actually, being pessimistic means you can only be either right or pleasantly surprised. Meanwhile, if you walk around with your head in the clouds you can only be right or terribly disappointed. Pessimism is the route to true happiness.

Longbeard, are we really getting an update via magazines? I tried reading the thread about it on B&C but the first couple pages seemed to be nothing but 'they don't print official stuff in magazines anymore, you're being a retard" and the last few pages are all "This is what I'd change..." haven;t had the energy or desire to filter through it all


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## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

> Actually, being pessimistic means you can only be either right or pleasantly surprised. Meanwhile, if you walk around with your head in the clouds you can only be right or terribly disappointed. Pessimism is the route to true happiness.


 Ive been saying this my whole life, You should be a philosopher.
BTW why are we arging about a codex that hasnt been released yet? Seems kinda like griping about your Birthday cake and then being suprised by ice cream.

Spice cake is the best anyways


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

There's only one problem with your wonderful plan. Pessimism means that, even in the best possible situation, it's still bad. You can't be pleasantly surprised, because that would be a concession to the positive. With optimism, even when things go wrong, they're great.

Besides, ask any qualified psychologist about the differences is despressions and suicide rates for the two.


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## stompzilla (Mar 8, 2007)

Larf! :lol: 

Quality.


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## anathema (Jan 24, 2007)

> oblits will be heavy support


Well hopefully they'll have their 0-1 status retained otherwise everyone will field 9 of the buggers.

Regarding all daemons having the same basic stats, it doesn't sound too unreasonable. After all, Bloodletters can still be equipped with power weapons and have furious charge, daemonettes still have rending and deamonic allure or whatever. 
Point being that the basic stats can be the same for ease, but marks and wargear give them their finished modified profile. The only daemons that were really OTT were Bloodletters with their S5 power weapons and the 3+ armoured codpiece. If these become S3(4) power weapons and have a 5++ save but are about 10 points cheaper then they are still viable, just not as bad. Of course, daemonettes are then probably a bit better but the points may reflect this. Just a bit of uninformed speculation for you. Alternatively they could just have had one statline cut'n'pasted to fill the space for a mock-up of layout, not content.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Just because you have a pessimistic doesn't mean you can't admit when a good thing happens, you just weren't expecting it. Meanwhile, if you go around expecting the best all the time, you;re going to be disappointed a lot.

As for suicide rates, I bet the number of annoying optimists murdered by right-thinking pessimists more than makes up for the suicide rate ;-)


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## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

Its at this point I use my best surfer voice and say "totally awsome mr pessimist dude" and then lay down a totally awsome barrage of air guitar.
And then rufus shows up and takes me to the future, where I actually win 40k games.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Gal, that's not how it works. An optimist expects good things to happen, but when they do not, considers what happens anyway to still be at least as good. A pessimist will expect bad things to happen, and when they do not, will grudgingly admit that it was not the worst, but will manage to find dozens of ways in which what has happened is still bad.


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## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

Well if Wraithlord is correct! This will mean that my dustwing army will get a hell of a lot better! yipee! But im still concerned about what will happen to my Wordbearers!

MarzM :mrgreen:


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

you and me both marzm, i see somethin bout daemons and i get scared  just hope for the best :lol:


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## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

What about traits? do you think they might do a trait thing like with sm?


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## Elric of Melnibone (Feb 9, 2007)

anathema said:


> > oblits will be heavy support
> 
> 
> everyone will field 9 of the buggers.


  :twisted:  :twisted:


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

> everyone will field 9 of the buggers.


True, but then with 0 mobility due to the lack of Preds they'll be that bit easier to dance around avoiding the Oblits. They may even have to take a decent amount of troops! :shock:
would be fairly balanced when compared against the current atrocity.


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Hadnt thought about that longbeard good point! sticking all your heavy support with oblits is just meh, prolly go with 1 oblit squad one havoc squad and a pred here despite their innaccuracy for my havocs they havent let me down once vs armor  <3 tank hunters


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## Elric of Melnibone (Feb 9, 2007)

LongBeard said:


> > everyone will field 9 of the buggers.
> 
> 
> True, but then with 0 mobility due to the lack of Preds they'll be that bit easier to dance around avoiding the Oblits. They may even have to take a decent amount of troops! :shock:
> would be fairly balanced when compared against the current atrocity.


Are we talking your BA here or IW ??


:?:


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## Sarigar (Dec 28, 2006)

The IW will be toned down with the Oblits being HS, but every other Chaos build will have a whole new area to explore. My 3 Obliterators were mandatory in my Word Bearers. I can only imagine having 6-9 of them. I'll take them over my Havocs any day.


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## stompzilla (Mar 8, 2007)

Really?

I'd much rather have an 8 man tank hunting autocannon squad over 3 oblits anyday of the week.


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## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

back to my earlier post....Traits maybe?


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

> Are we talking your BA here or IW ??


My BA army has nearly 500pts of troops In 1500pts, you don't see many IW armies with that many now do you! :wink:
And as far as being a atrocity, behind IW's I agree there pretty much broken and will see a 'quick fix' In WD In a couple of months to resolve the obvious Issues.


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## Sarigar (Dec 28, 2006)

stompzilla said:


> Really?
> 
> I'd much rather have an 8 man tank hunting autocannon squad over 3 oblits anyday of the week.


I ran that exact squad as well. Folks really feared the squad, but on any table with a decent amount of terrain, their viability became very limited. 

Obliterators, on the other hand, were always able to do ugly things to my opponents. Deep Striking (w/ Teleport Homers) allowing me a good position w/o worry of much return fire always yielded great results. I became a huge fan of twin link meltas and twin link plasma (within 12" of course).

However, an fairly open table...


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

heard again today that all daemons are going to have the same stat line, either lesser or greater


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

> heard again today that all daemons are going to have the same stat line, either lesser or greater


So do you mean that Daemonettes will share the same toughness, save etc?
:?


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Probably hearsay from the same eventual source that can't tell the difference between a finished codex and a template mockup.


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## Alexander_67 (May 5, 2007)

In all honesty while i've read everything thats been said in these posts and been half worried/infuriated at the possibility that they'll come true i will always roll with chaos. Then again i'm somewhat of a die hard chaos fan. Sure there was (and still is) kind of an IW epidemic between power gamers and trust me when i say fighting an IW obliterator army was possibly the worst vet night in GW i ever had. Something did have to be done. Lets hope that this new 'revised' chaos force will be something for gamers to look forward too rather than despise. Not sure yet where i stand.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Alright guys, here is what I remember from my chat with Gav at the convention on Saturday:

Codex will be 105-110 pages in size. This is due to rules layout and background along with an extended version of alternate colour schemes for CSM's that the GW crew have come up with.

Gav pointed out that the focus/feel of the codex will be more along the lines of Renegade SM's than just the 9 Legions previously. Fluffwise, the dev team feels that renegades would be in the majority as it is too much of a stretch to imagine that all CSM's are literally 10,000 year war vets. Some will be, most will not.

The codex will be similar to the SM codex in that the undivided lists will be represented in full (similar to codex astartes chapters) with the cults represented in a manner similar to the craftworlds in the new Eldar codex, ie, if you want World Eaters, give everything the MoK.

GW is seriously considering making the 4 god specific cults into stand alone books along the lines of BA, DA, BT, and SW's. This WILL NOT happen any time soon nor is it actually in the works just yet, however, if GW decides to go with this for them there will be no conflicts with the upcoming codex, as the book is being designed with this very possibility in mind.

Defiler is going to be a fast moving CC monster now. Gav said that the guys on the dev team feel that the Defiler rules simply do not reflect what they originally envisioned it as (not a Chaos Basilisk basically). The Defiler will have a quick movement mode and quite possibly both an improvement in armour along with a points reduction to make it more palatable to gamers. Gav -really- didn't want to say too much on this topic though so I got no more out of him on it.

"Thousand Sons players are going to be very happy". Direct quote from the man here. No real specifics as to the meaning of this but more to come on that in a minute.

One thing Gav talked about was the fact that the dev team deliberately sat down and figured out what exactly each of the Cults was supposed to be known for and how to achieve this rules wise. According to him, World Eaters are possibly going to get even better in CC, Emperors Children will be shooty from hell, Death Guard are getting -significantly- tougher to kill (Gav's emphasis, not mine), and Thousand Sons are going to be somewhere between EC and DG with a massive focus on psychic powers.

Thousand Sons will still be crap in CC, however this will be countered by very unique abilities for psychic powers and shooting. Gav mentioned that TSons will have god blessed bolter rounds and powerful spells, amoung other things, to offset this. Once again telling me that Tson players are going to jump for joy.

Oblits are moving to HS in order to prevent the IW cheese lists as well as to take Oblits out of competition with Terminators. 

We are definitely losing the Chaos Armoury. All units will have a listing of the available armoury stuff they are allowed but the days of one single, all encompassing, armoury are long gone. Get used to this idea as Gav said that was pretty much laid in stone now and is the way of the future for all codices to come.

The codex is due out "this fall" (quoting Gav here) as is Apocalypse. I asked about when the Orks are being released as well but all I got out of him on that subject was "early next year".

More if I think of anything else.


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Cool. I like the idea mentioned a while ago about cultists, because if this is really a _chaos_ codex, and not csm, then there should be some way of representing non sm models that have gone rogue. Anyone know if they're making LatD an official army?


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

The Wraithlord said:


> Gav pointed out that the focus/feel of the codex will be more along the lines of Renegade SM's than just the 9 Legions previously. Fluffwise, the dev team feels that renegades would be in the majority as it is too much of a stretch to imagine that all CSM's are literally 10,000 year war vets. Some will be, most will not.


Freakin' finally. Ten thousand years of service to the gods while never managing to do something good enough to becoem promoted, something bad enough to becoem spawned, or, hell, suffer _any_ of the physical effects of Chaos was always too much.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Good run down Wraith, Anything about deamons at all?

@ Uber: You forget that times flows differently in the warp


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

I know time flows differently in the warp, but expecting the vast majority of a few thousand marines to have managed to do _nothing at all_ to earn or lose the favour of any Chaos god in any reasonable length of time is simple idiocy. The minimum feeling of time passing seems to be about a few hundred years, from a panoply of sources.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Whereas Orks managing to live in space junk is perfectly reasonable.

Somethings don't make sense yea, but there are bigger holes in the 40k universe than what age Chaos Space Marines are and what they do for kicks when they arn't attacking the Imperuim.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

It makes perfect sense for Orks to do just bout anything as long as the Orks thing it makes sense for them to be doing those things. Gestalt psychic powers render the comparison meaningless.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

The pure mechanics of it don't work however. How do the orks construct a atmosphere within a wreck?, they don't have enough intellegence to screw in a light bulb.

There are things more out of place than the age of a Space Marine. My feeling is it that soon there will be a whole heap of 'renegade' Space Marine chapters and Chaos will become like Space Marines with a whole heap of DIY chapters which are completely out of place with the rest of the current system. The fluff is fine as it is, don't fix whats not broken.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

With an attitude like that we'd never have gotten anywhere as a race. our inherent curiousity and desire to see if we can, in fact, do something better is what dragged us up from mediocrity as a species.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

You consider the human race above mediocrity? wow have you met another human being or even turned on the news at all?

Anyway back on topic, does anybody have any more rumours on what is happening to Undivided legions?, I'd really hate to see the likes of the Word Bearers, Alpha Legion and Night Lords fade to the same level as little Johnny's Nasty Evil Marines.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

uber and jacobite, please keep thing pleasant. i understand you have been warned for arguing in other threads, and I for one do not want to warn either of you again.

cccp_one


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

Jacobite said:


> The pure mechanics of it don't work however. How do the orks construct a atmosphere within a wreck?, they don't have enough intellegence to screw in a light bulb.


You miss the point behind Orks then. Orks are not stupid. They are highly intelligent and cunning. Ork Mekaniaks construct all sorts of energy fields, warp drives, telly portas, etc. Ork Mad Doks manage to graft metal parts and other Ork parts onto injured orks. We (humanity) can only hope to be able to create similar things.

Our perception is skewed because the Ork frame of mind is of a more immediate one. Their inventions and procedures simply are not polished.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

pathwinder14 said:


> You miss the point behind Orks then. Orks are not stupid. They are highly intelligent and cunning. Ork Mekaniaks construct all sorts of energy fields, warp drives, telly portas, etc. Ork Mad Doks manage to graft metal parts and other Ork parts onto injured orks. We (humanity) can only hope to be able to create similar things.
> 
> Our perception is skewed because the Ork frame of mind is of a more immediate one. Their inventions and procedures simply are not polished.


Actually, by a human persepctive, Orks _are_ stupid, because they never stop to think at all. Their machinery should simply not work, yet because the Orks think they should, they do. The race as a whole was designed with this gestalt psychic power, and without it they'd all be feral.


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## Alexander_67 (May 5, 2007)

So dispite the last few posts appearing to wander reeaaaallllllly far off topic i was wondering are cultists still going to be a unit choice for chaos players? If there going to annex/remove a few legion specific rules will that give cultists to everyone (as they should have done first of all in my opinion) or are we going to see a complete removal of them? 


Want to know because the new WH flagellant models would make awesome cultists


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> Good run down Wraith, Anything about deamons at all?


Daemons are not going to be the same as we know them now. Instead, GW is turning the daemons in the Chaos Space Marine codex into generic 'bound entities'. Stats will be the same across the board, hell even Greater Daemons will be generic (this is due to the fact that GW is making a LatD/Daemon codex for release sometime next year.

This also answers your question as well Alex. While cultists per se will not be in the codex, you can use the Daemons in it as cultists (as they can be anything you want). And even better, Daemons will not use up a FOC slot.


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## rokassan (Jan 24, 2007)

So there will be Plague Bearers and Disc's of Tzeentch... ect..It will just be in this Deamon Codex when it comes out.Im just worried about that because I took the time to paint 31 Plague Bearers and a Greater Deamon of Nurgle and they have served me well in many battles.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

That is correct. And you will still be able to use those models but not as Plague Bearers and such. Kinda sucks I know (speaking as a player with 16 Bloodletters) but the choice is adapt or don't. Personally, I would rather adapt and keep playing than not.


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## rokassan (Jan 24, 2007)

What I meant is will the deamon codex allow for more god specific deamons(Bloodletters) as opposed to the generic ones in the next chaos codex.Also being the GW keeps coming out with these chapter specific codex books(Black Templars,DarkAngels,bloodangels in the future)why wouldnt at least the four Cult Chapters(Thousand Sons,DeathGuard,ect.)get a codex all their own?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I think the idea is that they might do them in 2's, so Nurgle and Khorne in one books and then the final 2 in a second or the other way round etc. I can't really see GW doing each power individually, I don't think that there is really enough background fluff to justify a seperate book for each power. But yes the point of Codex deamons is to give the deamons seperate entries again depending on their allegiance.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

is there going 100% to be a codex daemons? it seems a little odd that GW will do a codex for them, and not cult legoins which are far more popular. unless thay all get the WD treatment which looks an increasingly likely possibility.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

There is always the chance that the Cult troops might be in Codex Deamons,

The WD treatment is quite likely as well, as it seems that according to most sources the new Dex will be focussing more on the Renegades rather than the Original Nine.

Its all going to be very intersting. 3 options, now which one makes the least sense.


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## rokassan (Jan 24, 2007)

The original nine Traitor Legions are the meat and potatos of Chaos.I rarely see anyone playing some obscure renegade chapter.That makes no sense for them to do that.Maybe Huron Blackheart and his boys are a viable renegade chapter people would play(they have history).The big nine are what make Chaos what it is.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

rokassan said:


> The original nine Traitor Legions are the meat and potatos of Chaos.I rarely see anyone playing some obscure renegade chapter.That makes no sense for them to do that.Maybe Huron Blackheart and his boys are a viable renegade chapter people would play(they have history).The big nine are what make Chaos what it is.


According to Gav the focus is going to be on renegades a lot more than in the current codex simply because after 10,000 years of warfare there wouldn't be that many of the original legions left.


Ccp_one: it will be Daemons and LatD. No cults at all.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

rokassan said:


> The original nine Traitor Legions are the meat and potatos of Chaos.I rarely see anyone playing some obscure renegade chapter.That makes no sense for them to do that.Maybe Huron Blackheart and his boys are a viable renegade chapter people would play(they have history).The big nine are what make Chaos what it is.


I think the idea is that Chaos Space Marines will go in the direction of Imperial Space Marines - i.e. every new player will be inventing their own chapter etc effectively ruining the fluf and filling the game with lots of half baked ideas.

And while I agree with you entirely. Some people find the idea of the orginal nine still being combat effective after all this time a little hard to accept, while not really having a problem with 7 foot high, genetically engineered super killing machines with 2 hearts, a exo-skeleton which can stop bullets and the nifty ability to spit acid if they feel like it. :roll: you just can't please some people.


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## rokassan (Jan 24, 2007)

From what I understand the Chaos gods and their Legions are constantly recruiting new traitor Marines.Wouldnt the cult legions recruit fresh troops from all of these disenchanted chapters and induvidual Marines through whatever means...they did it ten thousand years ago?Dont the Chaos Legions conquer planets and recruit men to become members or are they too stupid or lack the personell(Fabius Bile) and facilities to create more Marines.......oh yeah and they also have the help of Demon Gods?Im just trying to make a point and vent...not trying to start any arguments be the way.


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## kelvingreen (May 15, 2007)

I actually don't mind the idea of a vanilla renegade Marine army, with "elite" units made up of more visually interesting troops from one of the more famous Chapters. If you've got an army made up of loyalist-like basic Marines with a couple of squads of Thousand Sons or Noise Marines, the contrast might make for a more effective visual overall.

In fact, rules or not, that might be how I'd personally build a Chaos Marine army; use basic loyalist Marines for the majority, but break out the Traitors to represent the veterans.

I know that's not what they're going for with the emphasis on renegades, I'm just sort of veering off on a tangent for the sake of discussion.


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## rokassan (Jan 24, 2007)

None the less the big nine would still replenish their ranks and not just fade away.They may send some of their troops to help out the non-aligned renegades to further their own goals,but they would still fight as an induvidual legion on as many occasions.


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## kelvingreen (May 15, 2007)

Oh, I'm sure they would. As I said, I was exploring a tangent.


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