# The evolution of Elim Rawne (Spoilers... obviously)



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Elim Rawne, everybody's favorite badass killer ghost who has somehow managed to avoid snapping and turning into Cuu.

To be honest I was never Rawne's biggest fan, I saw him as a fairly one dimensional character simply put there to be a reminder to the reader that Tanith is lost and people still resent Gaunt for it. He was also there for when dirty shit needed to be done. There was a bit of evolution post Vergast amalgamation with the introduction of girls and him getting a bit of a woody for Jessi Banda but nothing really "good" in my book; he was still the same old twisted dodgy Rawne. However then Salvation's Reach happened. 

Rawne is noticeable different in this. He's older, more mature and mellow (well as mellow as Rawne could be really). The first book where I "like" his character. And I don't mean that in that I like his personality, I mean that in that I think the character is well written and evolved. He's understandable on more than just a "he hates Gaunt" level. His contempt for Meryn is very interesting as Meryn has always been "little Rawne" really. I see a show down coming up there, especially as Meryn is now with Banda.

What are your thoughts on him?


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

I actually felt like there were elements of this coming to the fore ever since Corbec died. Ever since then it felt like a very real message was hammered home to Rawne: that he was now the 'leader' of the Ghosts.

Before, Corbec was the go to guy that a lot of the Ghosts liked, while Rawne was that secret weapon kept in the dark for just the right occassion, but when push came to shove he was also a capable commander. With Corbec dead, Rawne had to become the face of the Ghosts, the guy they were going to look to beyond Gaunt.

He really seems to start 'growing up' when the Gareon team returns and he implicitly trusts Gaunt to see them through things. And then later, in Only in Death, after Gaunt is gone everything sort of falls to Rawne; and he does display that he is more than just the sneaky bastard who wants Gaunt dead.


While the younger Rawne was most assuredly a clear reminder that there were some who hated Gaunt for what he did, I like the one we have been seeing in the later books much more. You get a much better sense that he has started to put parts of the past behind him and own up to his rank and what that entails.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I've never _really_ thought about it, but before the last three books (I think anything before _Only in Death_) Rawne seemed mostly all wind and no action. At least with Gaunt.

Minus trying to backstab Gaunt and leaving him for dead in one of the first two books.

Besides that, he'd always talk about one day killing Gaunt. Telling him to always watch his back, ect. Yet, nothing. It was sort of weak. Like a whiny teenager complaining how his mom grounded him on Prom-weekend or something. All bark, no bite.

Without going into too much detail, we see Rawne shaping up in _Only in Death_. I think the big kicker is, as Darkreever said, was when Gaunt "died". Rawne realized that he was in command. Maybe it put things in a better perspective for Rawne. Particularly when the Tanith First was placed in a pretty hopeless last-stand situation on Jago. Maybe it finally hit home that sometimes you only get to choose between a bad choice and a worse choice.

Now to completely derail the thread after 2 posts:

What the hell happened to Meryn during _Salvation's Reach_? We knew he was a bastard--a mini-Rawne, as you said--but now he's just some coward? We see him be rather ruthless and proactive in _The Guns of Tanith_. Furthermore, we see him fight like a bastard in _His Last Command_. All of a sudden we see him cowering in fear when the Chaos "Inquisitor's" man is holding Yoncy at gun point? He had a clean shot. The henchman would never had known what hit him.

I thought that was poor writing to get us to hate Meryn.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Well, both characters changed. One for the better, one for the worse.

As darkreever pointed out, Rawne's change was for the better. When he started off, he wasn't just as Guardsman who hated Gaunt, but a scoundrel and a criminal as well. I think his threats and bluster were informed by the fact that he knew Gaunt needed him, and that threats on their own wouldn't put him in front of a firing squad. His unwillingness to kill him in less than ideal circumstances (as mentioned above, outside of certain situations in the first couple of books) can be easily reconciled with the fact that, if Gaunt was out-and-out murdered, Rawne would have been the obvious culprit. And it's not as if Corbec or the majority of the Ghosts wouldn't have had his hide for it.

As time passed, Rawne changed. However realistic one thinks it is, he began to accept the responsibility that came with his position, and he began to care for more than just his own skin and underworld ventures. He began to respect Gaunt beyond a "I hate you, but respect your abilities" sense because it was obvious by then that he truly cared for them.

Meryn did an opposite number. This is probably because his and Rawne's positions were reversed. Meryn started in the ranks; Rawne was given a commission and second-in-command status practically the day after Tanith was lost. So I think what we have here is a dynamic wherein Rawne had the chance to explore profit and selfishness at the beginning, but realized that there were better things to be had - loyalty, comraderie, etc. Meryn, on the other hand, has only now amassed enough power where he can begin to truly abuse it. And yes, I think this would have an effect on his courage and his mettle. He's got more to lose now, and thus will take less risks, send others to do his dirty work, etc.

Ironically, Rawne is in large part responsible for the way Meryn turned out. By extension, he's also responsible for the conflict they will inevitably have. It's natural that Meryn would resent Rawne, because he's just now getting to rig the games the way his mentor once did... but is being kept from doing so. To Meryn, Rawne probably just comes off as a hypocrite.

As for Jessi Banda, I imagine she is either going to end up Meryn's victim, for ratting on his doings to Rawne, or will actually save Rawne from one of Meryn's plots. We'll see.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I think it's quite possibly the need for Sharpe to have his Harper back. Killing off Corbec was a stroke of genius in my eyes, but then left a hole that needed to be filled for the Right Hand man that another Commissar failed to fulfil despite his efforts, the peaked cap being the one thing that stopped the men from being that way.

After Gereon, that was well shoehorned in. The weedy Diney villain moustache for Meryn was a bit OTT though, a needlessly hamfisted introduction.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Vaz said:


> I think it's quite possibly the need for Sharpe to have his Harper back. Killing off Corbec was a stroke of genius in my eyes, but then left a hole that needed to be filled for the Right Hand man that another Commissar failed to fulfil despite his efforts, the peaked cap being the one thing that stopped the men from being that way.


:goodpost:


After Gereon (ooh, book title right there!) I feel that Rawne's 'nobody kills you but me' attitude is not quite how he truly feels anymore.

Maybe it's just me but I've taken it on board that Rawne & Gaunt will never truly be friends like Gaunt & Corbec, but by the same token I don't truly believe that Rawne wants to see him dead anymore.
His comments strike me as just going through the motions in a way.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Both the death of Corbec and the Gereon mission were the obvious turning points of Rawnes character, though we can see him starting to come into his own as a commander in Honour Guard as well, when Gaunt is off getting drunk and Corbec is injured, leaving Rawne to take command for the time being and stand in for Gaunt at that ceremony, a scene I always quite liked for that very reason.

But again, as others have already clearly stated, both Corbec dying and the Gereon mission are the real catalysts. Corbec dying made Rawne the most high ranking Tanith officer, and even after Koleas promotion to Major and the the introduction of Baskevyl, he is still the obvious senior of the three Majors. Not to reiterate what others have said, but he now has an even larger stake in the Ghosts, the Tanith especially, with Corbec dead, whether they like it or not, Rawne is their figure head, the first point of contact for the Tanith, the most senior representative of their lost world, that means something as well. Sure they have Gaunt, but much as most of them love and admire him, he's still not Tanith, neither is Kolea, Hark, Bask or the other key figure heads of the command echelon. That's got to change you as a person.

With Corbecs death being the catalyst for Rawnes change in personality and approach regarding command and authority, Gereon is of course his change in attitude to Gaunt. Whilst you can see that over the battles and time before the Gereon mission, Rawne has slipped back from his 'I will murder you at some point' approach, he was still dangerous and not to be fully trusted, but for all that, he still has built a much higher regard and respect for Gaunt than he originally had. But on Gereon, he has to trust Gaunt implicitly, unconditionally and vice versa to ensure theirs and their teams survival, all notions of revenge and resentment had to be put aside if they were ever going to get off Gereon. It really was a brilliant move by Abnett, I just don't think I could have bought any other reason for Rawne really going back on his initial feelings towards Gaunt. 

And as we call know, by the end of _Only In Death_ and throughout _Salvations Reach_ we can truly see just how much Elim Rawne has changed, and it really is a great bit of character development. It took a lot of time for him to become the way he is now, some very, very important, life changing events and some really good writing, as only the best character developments can go.

As for Meryn, I'm still not a fan of just how rapidly his descent into becoming a selfish, cowardly, manipulative and disgraceful bastard went. Unlike Rawne, the catalysts weren't really there for me, too much of it went on behind the scenes. And whilst we saw he was in a downward spiral, the scam he is revealed to have been pulling in _Salvations Reach_ really was too much for me, even for Meryn, was a little too OTT imo.

Regarding Jessi Banda? I'm hoping as Phoebus suggests, she might end up saving Rawne from Meryn, I'm quite a fan of her characters and just don't want to see Meryn just pull a Lija 'fething' Cuu.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Phoebus said:


> And yes, I think this would have an effect on [Meryn's] courage and his mettle. He's got more to lose now, and thus will take less risks, send others to do his dirty work, etc.


I agree with this, to a point. Maybe he won't be the one leading the forlorn hope or volunteering his company for that deep recon mission deep into a Tyranid hive.

Still, his cowering when Sirle's henchman took Yoncy hostage was too much. There's a difference between risking your life fighting an armed opponent and headshotting someone from behind. Even a greedy (which Meryn is), cowardly (which Meryn isn't) bastard could do that much.

In fact, someone like Meryn would jump on something like this. Big reward for little risk.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Of the major catalysts that have instigated a change in Rawne, I think the death of Feygor was another one. Theres no mistaking that of all the Ghosts, Murt Feygor was the closest thing Rawne had to an actual friend, and even a confidant when you think about it. The fact that the two worked so well together, and that having Feygor around would keep Rawne a bit more in line on the Gereon mission was a huge factor in why he was chosen.

For all that happened to him over the later years, the loss of Feygor had to be an absolute hammer blow; reinforcing the notion that they were not getting younger and that none of them would live forever.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

darkreever said:


> I actually felt like there were elements of this coming to the fore ever since Corbec died.


I agree, and I'd also go as far to say when Milo was killed Rawne's hatred of Gaunt grew even greater. To me Rawne represents Abnett's way of reminding the reader that while Gaunt is a hero is is also mortal. Rawne reminds the reader that at any time Gaunts own men, who fight, bleed, and die for him, could easily turn around and shoot him when he is not looking. In a way it creates a tragic hero of the Greek style that Homer use to have in his plays. Ingenious really if you ask me, makes for an even better story.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

emporershand89 said:


> I agree, and I'd also go as far to say when Milo was killed Rawne's hatred of Gaunt grew even greater.


Yeah, I don't know what book you read that one from but Milo isn't dead, he's traveling with the Saint (or thats what he is supposedly doing since, last I checked, no one knows his fate after he left with her.)


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

darkreever said:


> Of the major catalysts that have instigated a change in Rawne, I think the death of Feygor was another one. Theres no mistaking that of all the Ghosts, Murt Feygor was the closest thing Rawne had to an actual friend, and even a confidant when you think about it. The fact that the two worked so well together, and that having Feygor around would keep Rawne a bit more in line on the Gereon mission was a huge factor in why he was chosen.
> 
> For all that happened to him over the later years, the loss of Feygor had to be an absolute hammer blow; reinforcing the notion that they were not getting younger and that none of them would live forever.


Conversely, I would say the death of Feygor was on of the last anchors Rawne had left to his old ways. Feygor was pretty much the only other Tanith on the same level as Rawne, behind him and encouraging him every step of the way. With him by his side, just like back on Tanith, Rawne would still remember and live those criminal like days. But once Feygor was killed, Rawne could in effect, put an end to that part of his life without his old partner in crime by his side.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Some good points about Meyrn. I never really took my notice of his little peeing his pants ep in SR, instead I was too busy enjoying the follow up of Criid, Gol AND Daur sucker punching him, not going to lie, I laughed. A lot.

However I went back and re-read the passage in question last night and yeah it does seem a bit out of character and bit hamfisted of Abnett to do it that way. Normally I would say he was taken by surprise in a situation where he's likely to get caught doing something he shouldn't have been (he was fooling people to sign papers for his scam at the time) so the fear was more "Fuck if I take this shot, people are going to ask what I was doing there" and him being the one to give Yoncy back to Gol rather than Eloide is him hoping "If I'm the one to actually give her back people will see me as the hero rather than Daur's missus and not ask any questions about what I was doing down there in the first place". _However_ there is a line saying about his eyes were filled with fear and the over riding tone is that yeah he's being a pussy. Not a very well written character shift, especially for a normally very good writer like Abnett.

I disagree with you AOB on how we haven't seen Meryn's decent into being a dodgy bastard. I think there are quite a few hints along the way into him becoming dodgier and dodgier especially in later parts of "The Saint" sequence and post Geron. He becomes harder and harder during that time.

Thinking about it and after you guys have pointed it out Corbecs death (A master stoke by Abnett that tops Bragg's death which was a complete gutpunch) is a huge turning point for Rawne. I never really saw it that way instead seeing the wider effects on the regiment and the then wider integration of the Verghast and later Belladon leaders. 

Feygors death is also something that I never really thought about. I think his death also has a effect on Meryn's development. There is no way Meryn would have gotten that scheme up and running if Feygor was around. Feygor would have smacked him down as soon as he tried.



emporershand89 said:


> I agree, and I'd also go as far to say when Milo was killed Rawne's hatred of Gaunt grew even greater.


*Facepalm* Really? Get your facts right because you are making zero sense. Milo isn't dead. He is, as D says, with the Saint. So either you are barking up the complete wrong tree or you mean Feygor. And if you do mean Feygor you are again barking up the wrong tree. Feygor's death doesn't make Rawne hate Gaunt more. His death has nothing to do with Gaunt and it's after Geron, in which Feygor saves Gaunts life. And as for your statement about Rawne being a reminder that at any time the Ghosts could turn on Gaunt... have you actually read any of the books? They are fiercely loyal to him the only time your statement could possibly be true is maybe Voltemond (I think thats the Ghost's first action under Gaunt) and even then despite the massive clusterfuck that that operation was the wider Ghost regiment doesn't try to off him. The malcontents in the regiment were Rawne's platoon because Gaunt knew that if he put them with Rawne they wouldn't take a shot at him. That was Rawne's right and Rawne's alone, although now that Rawne evidently isn't going to do it Meyrn might try. The Ghosts have have many opperunties to off Guant and bar Rawne, once none have tried other than Cuu. And Cuu doesn't count. _Sigh_


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Cuu was my favourite character of the series. He's like the goddamn candyman. Sadly i'm far too cynical and knew that as soon as Gaunt defended him and he got off, that he would be the rapist/killer. I think Abnett predicted that many other people will have thought that, so while we are sat there thinking all smug that we've figured out the plot, one of the keystones of the Gaunts being taken out left people hurting, similar to "Fly You Fools!" On a slight tangent and tying in to another thread, bringing back Gandalf could only have been done back when LotR was written. Now, it is far too overused, similar to the "i am your father" and the "magnificent bastard".


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