# TFH Question?!



## Captain Sor Talgron (Sep 10, 2010)

Something i remembered from reading TFH, which tweaked my interest slightly...

Page: 394 - 395

The custodes are talking amongst themselves once they hear about Horus turning traitor; here is the dialogue below:

_'Four entire legions have betrayed the Emperor'_

_'Led by the warmaster' Cartik added to their discussion with akward softness. 'The Emperors most beloved son.'_

_Nirallus ( a custode) breathed out something between a snort and a laugh. 'We are the Emperors most beloved son's, little warp speaker.'_

_Aquillon ignored the old argument. _

So what exactly does this mean? They share the Emperors genes?


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Captain Sor Talgron said:


> Something i remembered from reading TFH, which tweaked my interest slightly...
> 
> Page: 394 - 395
> 
> ...


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Custodes

hope that helps.


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Elsewhere in that book two Word Bearers have a conversation about the fate of the two "expunged legions" ADB then came out in this board and said something along the lines of "the musings of two Word Bearers are not certainties" yada yada yada. Basically in this instance ADB had thrown in a teaser relating to the expunged and was just trying to stir things up not go on record with facts.

I reckon the conversation you have found Captain is a similar teaser. Personally I don't think even GW have figured out EXACTLY what they want the custodes to be yet. At the moment we must settle for "astartes cousins".


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

From what I remember Astartes share genes with their primarch, who in turn share genes with the emperor (but engineered much much further). The rumour is that Custodes share their geneseed directly with the Emperor, thus in a round about way making the Emperor their Primarch. However, this is never how it's spun by GW and its more of an unofficial/educated guess. This would explain why the Custodes are just a little, bigger and faster than a regular Astartes. Not by heaps, but as a general rule of thumb, they are.


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

Brother Subtle said:


> From what I remember Astartes share genes with their primarch, who in turn share genes with the emperor (but engineered much much further). The rumour is that Custodes share their geneseed directly with the Emperor, thus in a round about way making the Emperor their Primarch. However, this is never how it's spun by GW and its more of an unofficial/educated guess. This would explain why the Custodes are just a little, bigger and faster than a regular Astartes. Not by heaps, but as a general rule of thumb, they are.


Certainly effective enough against Lorgars mob in _The First Heretic!!_ :so_happy:


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## Captain Sor Talgron (Sep 10, 2010)

Well that one Custode can't remember his name, the one that was eventually sacrificed in the temple was pretty badass considering he was outnumbered and up against a Primarch as well...

The guy did not care, as far as he was concerned he was going bring Lorgar into custody... guy was a nutter!


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Custodes, (will be) winning awards for Crowning Moments of Awsome since the year 30,000. Sythran had one of the best exits ever, truely earning his CMOA


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## Tyrannus (Sep 19, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> Custodes, (will be) winning awards for Crowning Moments of Awsome since the year 30,000. Sythran had one of the best exits ever, truely earning his CMOA



Was he the custodes who threw his glaive thing which killed 

Xaphen?



Because I thought that was an amazing way to go.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Yep, that's him. Classic final words aswell



"I always hated you Xaphen"


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Have the custodes been around even before the HH series started


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

Yeah, Custodes have been part of the lore since forever.


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## Cambrius (Nov 4, 2010)

The way I understood it, the Custodes are to the Emperor what the Astartes are to their primarchs.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I would imagine that, no matter if the Custodes use the Emperor's genes or not, the Custodes are looking at the bond they have with their leader and charge as a deep familial bond, as much as one of duty. So, by that standard, the Custodes could count themselves as most beloved sons.
It could be that they are looking at anyone who is created via the Emperor's gene-magiks as a 'son' of the Emperor, therefore they are looking at it through a duty lens. IE the Custodes are the ones who spend their time in the presence of the big E; wouldn't you feel special?
There is the obvious Emperor as Primarch angle.
It might be the trust the Emperor has in them, giving them tasks that seem beyond even Astartes.
Apart from the obvious, there could be loads of ways this argument might break down. I imagine if it is a long-standing Astartes v Custodes pissing contest, then every angle will have been identified and discussed in great detail, especially if one side feels they might be falling behind.

GFP


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## AK74Bob (Oct 2, 2010)

I wonder if the custodes that are guarding the Emperor in 40k are the same custodes of the HH. I mean they don't fight anymore since the Emperor is immobile, so if any survived the HH, could they still be guarding the Golden Throne?


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> I would imagine that, no matter if the Custodes use the Emperor's genes or not, the Custodes are looking at the bond they have with their leader and charge as a deep familial bond, as much as one of duty. So, by that standard, the Custodes could count themselves as most beloved sons.
> It could be that they are looking at anyone who is created via the Emperor's gene-magiks as a 'son' of the Emperor, therefore they are looking at it through a duty lens. IE the Custodes are the ones who spend their time in the presence of the big E; wouldn't you feel special?
> There is the obvious Emperor as Primarch angle.
> It might be the trust the Emperor has in them, giving them tasks that seem beyond even Astartes.
> ...


good point, but it is documented that Custodes are slightly larger and faster than other Astartes (in general). What could be the explanation for this? One theory is that the Emperor is their Primarch, which could work. Either that or they simply share more of the Emperor's DNA than other Astartes. Either way, theres more factual evidence that they are 'the beloved sons' than simply a way of thinking.




AK74Bob said:


> I mean they don't fight anymore since the Emperor is immobile, so if any survived the HH, could they still be guarding the Golden Throne?


Custodes are still around. And i'm sure when the High Lords of Terra intend a message to be sent with the up most ass kicking they would send a Custode as the messages emissary.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

increaso said:


> Yeah, Custodes have been part of the lore since forever.


Lmao.

And yes, the Adeptus(Or dare I say Legio?) Custodes are in essense, the bridge between Primarch and Astartes. Astartes, whether be scholar, wolf or witch, are primarily tools of war - humanities finest, most efficient method of cleansing the stars. As Horus Lupercal, Lorgar or even the Ruinous Powers themselves manipulated, the bond between Astartes son and Primarch father often outweighs that between Astartes and the Emperor - perhaps excluding the cliche ''Angelic'' Legions such as the Blood Angels, or those who were often in the presense of the Emperor, like the Imperial Fists. 

ADB's concept of the Emperor being ''Primarch'' of the Custodes I'm sure isn't a concrete decleration of fluff-fuckery, more something for the reader to think on, or ponder... and that's why I enjoyed The First Heretic, really. It didn't slam facts into us repeatedly, merely opened up new disussions, shed light on old ones etc... which, frankly, is what a Horus Heresy novel should do. So yush 

I don't even mind fluff-fuckery anyway. I quite enjoyed 

''Bear'' from Prospero Burns loosing his hand to the ''Horus'' Daemon-thing


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Brother Subtle said:


> Custodes are still around. And i'm sure when the High Lords of Terra intend a message to be sent with the up most ass kicking they would send a Custode as the messages emissary.


Highly doubt it. The Custodes don't answer to the High Lords and aren't there to do their bidding. They don't leave Terra anymore either, back in the Great Crusade days the Custodes were sent out to more openly and clearly enforce the Emperors will and orders, but now they don't. Only instance i can think of them directly intervening since the Heresy is to stop Vandire and even then they didn't leave Terra.


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## AK74Bob (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm sure Space Marines probably regard Custodes as REMF's


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

AK74Bob said:


> I'm sure Space Marines probably regard Custodes as REMF's


But would not say it openly to their face of course!!! :grin:

"Because you'll end up with a whole lot of woop ass"


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

Ah REMF's, leaves such a bitter taste in my mouth, along with camp rat...


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## Cambrius (Nov 4, 2010)

I've also heard a theory put forth that the Custodes watching over the Golden Throne in the 41st Millennium are the same ones that were there during the Heresy and Seige of Terra.

:wink:


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

That is quite possible. Technically, they are immortal. Your average Space marine could live for ever, but due to the very nature of his job and the ammount of combat damage they sustain, the liklihood of a long life followed by peaceful retirement is remote... their bodies would just give up after a while!
Custodes on the other hand, do not engage in combat any more, and are merely guards (for a better use of a word), so they should be able to live on just as the were 10,000 years before.


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## AK74Bob (Oct 2, 2010)

Brother Emund said:


> But would not say it openly to their face of course!!! :grin:
> 
> "Because you'll end up with a whole lot of woop ass"


Lol I think you all exagerate the ability of the custodes. Personally I would take the veteran of centuries of constant warfare over the guy who sits in a basement for centuries fighting the great enemy that is "dust".


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## AK74Bob (Oct 2, 2010)

World Eater XII said:


> Ah REMF's, leaves such a bitter taste in my mouth, along with camp rat...


LOL, indeed


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Ah come on, camp rats aren't that bad! REMF does leave that bitter taste in my mouth though


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

I have to ask.

What is a REMF?


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

*R*ear *E*chelon *M*uther *F*#cker!
The US forces also use the word Pogue.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

Umm, unfortunately I dont how to do that little spoiler button thing so...

*SPOILER*:



I honestly thought that the custodes were going to win against the remaining gal vorbak in the end. Three of them Aquillon being one of them?? come on, I think they could have done it, I think they ended up only taking out six? As much as I love Argel Tal's character I really thought he would have died at the end. I'm not really sure there was enough of a point to keep him alive, unless ADB plans on using him in the future...


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

unxpekted22 said:


> As much as I love Argel Tal's character I really thought he would have died at the end. I'm not really sure there was enough of a point to keep him alive, unless ADB plans on using him in the future...


Of course, yo. There are 7 years of Heresy left. He's going to show up a lot more, probably in several novels.


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

unxpekted22 said:


> as I love Argel Tal's character I really thought he would have died at the end. I'm not really sure there was enough of a point to keep him alive


I have to admit a lot of 40k books really irritate me by killing off characters when they are done with them. I was very happy with his fate in TFH.

Far to many 40k books end with the main character getting killed, in many cases for little or no apparent reason. I mean why can't they walk of into the sun set every now and then, or be of some use elsewhere, just because you are done with a character, doesn't mean you HAVE to kill him.

I mean in Eisenhorn, an incredible book, one of the finest Black Libary books available Dan Abnett spends 700 pages building on eisenhorns relationship with his team members, as it is all from his perspective it really lets you know how he loves them, depends on them. 



Then in like the second from last chapter, he killed Maxilla on one page then Aemos & Fischig on the next page only a few sentences apart. 
on the same page. This kind of thing does not give the reader the time to soak in what has just happened. I mean Aemos and Fischig are 2 of the main characters and maxilla is certainly up there. Bequin he 'killed' at least only beside minor characters so the reader has time to 'mourn' her. 


And in Battle for the Abyss, one of its many downfalls was 

some of the main characters getting the most pointless deaths. I mean the main guy, I forget his name, realises hes been stabbed and drops dead on the last page. For no apparent reason or justification. 


I mean Nemesis 

did it to an extent, the first half was the building up of the assassins team, and when they were picked apart at least it did it over the space of a few chapters, and made some of the deaths very memorable. Except that snipers.... what the hell was that, he was awesome and he pretty much committed suicide at the end. 


I just wished that some authors could show more restraint with killing characters, I mean there is no point just shitting out a death of a main character on the last page for no apparent reason. Killing 90% of the main characters in the last chapter on the same page is also a bad idea as it doesn't give the reader time to soak in the death before the next one hits them.

As for Argal Tal

He was an AWESOME character. I mean how many times have the protagonists in the heresy been the outcast loyalist? Loken, Saul Tarvitz, Solomon Demeter, Garro etc. I had serious money on Tal going down the same road. Man was I shocked, he is well on his way to becoming a deamon prince.


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## sakura (Jan 24, 2011)

AK74Bob said:


> Lol I think you all exagerate the ability of the custodes. Personally I would take the veteran of centuries of constant warfare over the guy who sits in a basement for centuries fighting the great enemy that is "dust".


I heard they now also work as librarians in the Imperial Library and hunt down overdue books.
Here's a video:


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