# Your thoughts on Creed?



## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Hey,

I'm considering using Creed in my 1750 list but I'm not sold that he's entirely worth it. For his points I can just buy another command squad and gear.

Your thoughts?


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## Strange Dude (Jul 15, 2008)

24" command radius 4 commands a turn (including a unique one) and the ability to give any one unit outflank. Yeah I think he's worth it.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

The 24" range and special order make him worth it alone.
He turns up to 4 IG units into a half-decent melee force per turn.

Hell, even if he only had 2 orders and didn't grant the Outflank, I'd still take him!


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

I'd like to like Creed and I can see him been great in a non-mech list, but I can get my Outflanking from Al"rahem...plus as you say his points-cost can get you another CCS.

About from his Orders abilities (does anyone really use 4 Orders a turn) he's pretty blah really...not much chop at shooting or assault, and every list I've seen him in also has Kell and/or a couple of Bodyguards to help keep him alive, which amounts to even more points spent.

just my view of course.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

HOBO said:


> I'd like to like Creed and I can see him been great in a non-mech list, but I can get my Outflanking from Al"rahem...plus as you say his points-cost can get you another CCS.
> 
> About from his Orders abilities (does anyone really use 4 Orders a turn) he's pretty blah really...not much chop at shooting or assault, and every list I've seen him in also has Kell and/or a couple of Bodyguards to help keep him alive, which amounts to even more points spent.
> 
> just my view of course.


I'd never take both, although undoubtedly an effective combo, it's too expensive for one unit which is there to enhance your other dudes.
I mean, come on, Kell has a Fist AND a Sword, he's meant to be in CC.
Whereas Creed doesn't have anything special, he's supposed to sit back and drink tea.

I'd take Creed, and two Bodyguards, and maybe put them in a Chimera with some nice guns.
That's not too expensive, and offers a great base of command that's not too easy to eliminate (if you hide them in a fortress of bodies).


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

I agree about Kell...can he be taken without Creed ( I lent my Codex out so can't look it up).


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## The Fallen (Jul 15, 2009)

Are you sure you could only take Kell? To me that just looks wrong but then again im not an IG player (I just play against IG all the time)


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Creed is good in an infantry army, particularly if you have large platoons with some power weapons in. 30 or 40 guys with a few power weps become very dangerous when they are all strength and initiative 4.

Outflank is good and a lot more flexible than Al'rahem in terms of what you can send. Al'rahem isn't free himself anyway.

Creed does need to be protected though. I'd suggest a chimera and a couple of bodyguards and maybe a lascannon or something. No need to be close enough for melta/plasma fire.

Alternatively, Straken gives many of the same benefits as Creed but can also hand out real damage in cc.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Someguy said:


> > Outflank is good and a lot more flexible than Al'rahem in terms of what you can send. Al'rahem isn't free himself anyway.
> 
> 
> Sure he has a cost...and yes Creed can make any Unit Outflank but only one. With Al"rahem you can outflank many units...that alone makes him more flexible. I regularly field a PCS and 2/3 Squads with Al"rahem...works well as a disruption plus deals out a decent amount of destruction.
> ...


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

HOBO said:


> Sure he has a cost...and yes Creed can make any Unit Outflank but only one. With Al"rahem you can outflank many units...that alone makes him more flexible. I regularly field a PCS and 2/3 Squads with Al"rahem...works well as a disruption plus deals out a decent amount of destruction.


Say that again when you have 3 Leman Russes pop up next to you.



HOBO said:


> Couldn't agree more...Straken is a way better choice than Creed.


Staken is more POWERFUL, there's a difference.
Creed is FAR more tactically flexible, whereas Straken relies on running at the enemy and hitting them.

Yes Straken is a powerhouse core for an IG army, no one is doubting that, but he's not _better,_ he has a completely different use to Creed.

Taking Straken is not far off forgoing the CCS's orders completely, if you're running forward, you're unlikely to get that much use out of the orders.
And Straken is a one-man army as well, the rest of his unit are ablative wounds that mean NOTHING, you're basically taking a Space Marine Captain who's slightly more hardcore.
HE STILL DIES TO S8 WEAPONS!


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Straken dies to S8 weapons if they hit him, but since he's not an independent character that isn't too common.

He probably shouldn't run at people either. A friend of mine runs a highly effective IG army (actually the most effective one at the GT heats this year) comprising only infantry platoons and Straken's HQ. It's a very difficult army to move off an objective, though not especially good at advancing. He's given Straken's unit cammo cloaks, so most of the time they just hide. When they do charge, or when a platoon of 40 guys charges, lots of damage is done.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Creed does many beautiful things for the IG army indeed but he also gives the main HQ an even bigger "bulls eye" on them. Killing the HQ is prio 1 imho when playing against IG, and scoring a bunch of S6+ hits on them gives you 50% chance of success, since they have the most dangerous orders available. 200+ pts on 5 guards is pricey, so use them very wisely

As a Tau player its not very hard to dish in more then a handfull of ID shots on T3guys, add 2 Markerlight hits and cash in the big one:wink:


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Winterous said:


> Say that again when you have 3 Leman Russes pop up next to you./QUOTE]
> 
> Yea maybe in a 2500/3000 point list....not many IG'ers I know take a full squadron of Russes.


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## DaafiejjXD (Jun 22, 2009)

Neither do I, I usually take one or two russes, not three, because that'll cost you 450 pts(without upgrades) and that's A LOT of guardsmen


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

DaafiejjXD said:


> Neither do I, I usually take one or two russes, not three, because that'll cost you 450 pts(without upgrades) and that's A LOT of guardsmen


I was making a point, not suggesting that it's a good loadout.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Personally I think I'd be more scared of a bunch of Armored Sentinels with heavy flamers just appearing beside me... meep. AV12 walkers are hard to get rid of in assault when there's three of them.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Personally I think I'd be more scared of a bunch of Armored Sentinels with heavy flamers just appearing beside me... meep. AV12 walkers are hard to get rid of in assault when there's three of them.


And especially when they've just scorched your whole unit.
There's a fair chance that the hidden Fist gets killed by that


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Sentinels are pretty good in CC too. AV12 for armoured, and the inevitable Plasma Cannon in my opinion , stick them behind your guardsmen to take pops at, well anything, and unless your opponent has any Power fists then those 3 S5 attacks should be bringing down a SMurf, maybe another if your lucky per turn, which easily decimates a 10 man tactical squad, especially when they cannot do much in return.

As for Creed. He seems good, like any special character. Im not a fan, id rather, if I was really bothered about it, go for 2 Company command squads, a Vox network, and the rest being Vets with Meltas/Plasma`s


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## obimoshman (Oct 21, 2009)

I think Creed can be ridiculously useful i mean i hate having my mates squad of 2 Bane wolves outflanking me its annoying as. Thats why i have now got everything in tanks k:


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

obimoshman said:


> I think Creed can be ridiculously useful i mean i hate having my mates squad of 2 Bane wolves outflanking me its annoying as. Thats why i have now got everything in tanks k:


If he's sensible they have Multi-Meltas on their hull mount.


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## Colonel Wolf (Nov 11, 2009)

Straken vs Creed is a shooty vs assault argument. I stick Creed in a Chimera with a master of ord. an Astropath and a lascannon. Keep it in cover and it will usually last a while. Creeds 'any unit outflank' rule is huge fun for tanks and ogryn. Regarding the earlier comment re-4 orders per turn, I usually find that "bring it down" on Creed's unit makes for a quite accurate bombardment and lascannon hit {BS 4, twin linked}, One or two 'FRFSRF' and an 'Honour of Cadia' or 'Get back in the fight' keeps your army swinging away. "Bring it down" issued to Ratlings also makes them very handy monster killers. The only real trick with Creed is initial positioning. Establish him in cover in a central forward location where his 24" orders can get to the largest number of units and then give your opponent other things to worry about.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Colonel Wolf said:


> Straken vs Creed is a shooty vs assault argument. I stick Creed in a Chimera with a master of ord. an Astropath and a lascannon. Keep it in cover and it will usually last a while. Creeds 'any unit outflank' rule is huge fun for tanks and ogryn. Regarding the earlier comment re-4 orders per turn, I usually find that "bring it down" on Creed's unit makes for a quite accurate bombardment and lascannon hit {BS 4, twin linked}, One or two 'FRFSRF' and an 'Honour of Cadia' or 'Get back in the fight' keeps your army swinging away. "Bring it down" issued to Ratlings also makes them very handy monster killers. The only real trick with Creed is initial positioning. Establish him in cover in a central forward location where his 24" orders can get to the largest number of units and then give your opponent other things to worry about.


I'm thinking of sticking Creed in a Chimera /w Astropath and Missile Launcher... Sitting him near my firebase of 2 HWT's and 2 squads of 40 guardsmen /w commissars.

I plan on using his scout rule to outflank a suicide chimera of plasma/melta.

Thanks for all the help everyone!


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## Guddijon (Nov 24, 2009)

HOBO said:


> I agree about Kell...can he be taken without Creed ( I lent my Codex out so can't look it up).


It think it says in the Imperial Guard codex that you have to take Kell with Creed


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## ItsPug (Apr 5, 2009)

Nope. you can take creed by himself, or even kell by himself, but kell only gets the bodyguard rule if creed is in the unit.


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## Guddijon (Nov 24, 2009)

Ok. I thought i saw that rule somewhere. But I play the SM so I'm going to trust you the Imperial guard player


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

In the old Codex they had to be taken together, but they don't anymore


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## ModoX (Oct 20, 2008)

Winterous said:


> If he's sensible they have Multi-Meltas on their hull mount.


You know, I'd never thought of it before, and it works no matter the hull weapon, but because the chem cannon is technically strength 1, it can move 12" and fire both of it's weapons. Very useful. I don't play IG but my mate does - I won't tell him about it 

On Creed, if I did start an IG army (it's on my to-do list) I'd definitely take him. I always build lists from other codexes to familiarise myself with them, and IG lists are always built around him for me. I'd love the idea of massed infantry with FRFSRF, his ability to give out a lot of orders and, more importantly, over a larger range, makes him incredibly valuable to the way I would play an IG army.

Edit: There's one thing I didn't notice before though, which I just have whilst looking through the codex. Probably I'm the only one who didn't realise, but you can't issue orders from within a transport. That seriously reduces your ability to protect Creed. I guess I'd still take a Chimera and just use it as mobile cover, then make sure I took out anything that fires indirectly.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

ModoX said:


> Edit: There's one thing I didn't notice before though, which I just have whilst looking through the codex. Probably I'm the only one who didn't realise, but you can't issue orders from within a transport. That seriously reduces your ability to protect Creed. I guess I'd still take a Chimera and just use it as mobile cover, then make sure I took out anything that fires indirectly.


Look at the rules for the Chimera again.

And ooh, that IS a nice thing for Bane Wolf, moving 12" and firing TWO flamer template weapons


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## ModoX (Oct 20, 2008)

Winterous said:


> Look at the rules for the Chimera again.
> 
> And ooh, that IS a nice thing for Bane Wolf, moving 12" and firing TWO flamer template weapons


Ah, I'd forgotten about that. Good news for my imaginary Guard army 

Yeah, combine it with Creed's outflank and that's a powerful option. Depending on the points size I think I'd try to take a full squadron and really scare people away from the board edges.

As someone across the board from Guard, I'm really glad they can only take 3 fast attack choices.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Personally, I would stick Kell with Straken if I used him.. they make a nasty team, especially if you also add in Nork.. sure it's expensive as hell, but hey, you'll have a nasty assault unit in there. Add in a few large mobs of combined squads of 30 guardsmen, and you have an assault army running towards the enemy.

In my SoB army, my inducted infantry platoon actually uses Al'Rahem. People fear him.
He is the hammer, where my sisters are the anvil.

This is his setup:
Command squad:
Alrahem
vox
3 melta guns

1 SWS with 3 plasma's

3 infantry platoons combined
1 commissar with powerweapon
3 powerweapons for the sergeants
1 vox
3 flamers

And a WH priest attached to that mob with an eviscerator and carapace armour ( because my model looks so awesome in her armour )

When they come onto the board, people fear it.
Al'Rahem's 'like the wind' ordre is VERY nasty in combination with that huge mob.
I get to move them 1d6 inch, fire my flamers and pistols, and optionally my lasguns if I see I won't make it into assault.
If I do, I forgo the lasguns, ( have to anyway, due to priest ), and assault, giving that huge mob reroll to hit because of the priest, having 4 powerweapons with 4 attacks each with rerolls to hit is no peepee, even with only S3. And the eviscerator to finish anything left standing. And ofcourse.. all the other goons and their 2 attacks with rerolls to hit are nothing to laugh at either, this group has taken down demon princes with ease.

Their best tally to date was on the GT, where in 1 game, they killed 1 demon prince of Khorne, 5 oblitorators and a defiler. At the end of that, they were still (barely) above half strength even.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> Personally, I would stick Kell with Straken if I used him.. they make a nasty team, especially if you also add in Nork.. sure it's expensive as hell, but hey, you'll have a nasty assault unit in there.


The only problem is you don't want to risk Creed in combat :laugh:


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> The only problem is you don't want to risk Creed in combat :laugh:


Ahem.. you misread my post.. 
I said, íf I used Kell, I'd stick him with *STRAKEN*, and add Nork into the mix, along with a medic for the squad. Then you have a kickass close combat squad.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> Ahem.. you misread my post..
> I said, íf I used Kell, I'd stick him with *STRAKEN*, and add Nork into the mix, along with a medic for the squad. Then you have a kickass close combat squad.


Woops, my bad, just thought because its a Creed Thread and all


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