# Alpha Legion and Corax? (AoD Spoilers)



## Words_of_Truth

In Age of Darkness, the story that follows on from Raven's Flight, The Face of Treachery. It turns out that the Alpha Legion wanted Corax to survive, and in fact did their utmost to the point of killing the World Eater Commander to make sure Corax escaped.

Does anyone find this unusual? Is there something between them, maybe martial respect or was the Alpha legion merely trying to keep the balance in tact? Then again if this is the reason, they didn't really succeed as the Raven Guard didn't really play a further major role in the Heresy afaik.

Anyway I loved the twist, but the fact the Alpha Legion wanted to save Corax is interesting and I'd love to know more about it.


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## Barnster

It would build on the events in Legion with the AL not turning to chaos but siding with Horus to save the imperium from chaos


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Words_of_Truth said:


> Does anyone find this unusual?


Well its one of those things about the Alpha Legion. Its not entirely clear what the motives of the Alpha Legionnaires were. It may have been because of Alpharius's suppossed loyalty to the Emperor he wished his brother to live and thus set a plot in motion to save him, however this then *could* suggest he wasn't true to the Cabal's wishes; On the one hand he was securing the loyalty of countless worlds for the Warmaster (examples shown in _Liar's Due_) yet on the other he was saving loyalist Legions and Primarchs, which at face-value is hardly helping Horus' cause.

There are countless other potential reasons though. Perhaps the Alpha Legionnaires were not acting directly under Alpharius's orders, perhaps they were acting out of their own initiative (perhaps they were disillusioned with their Legion and Primarch joining the rebels and wished to save a loyal Primarch and Legion). Perhaps the Alpha Legionnaires really were Horus's representatives and acting on Horus's orders (which then raises the question of why Horus would wish Corax alive).

We just simply don't know. Perhaps something will be elaborated upon in _Deliverance Lost_, although don't expect the _whole_ answer or truth.



Words_of_Truth said:


> Then again if this is the reason, they didn't really succeed as the Raven Guard didn't really play a further major role in the Heresy afaik.


Well aside from the _mutant-creating_ we havn't really got a clue what Corax and the Raven Guard actually were up to throughout the Age of Darkness. We know that immediatley after escaping Isstvan he had the intention of returning to Terra, but beyond that we havn't a clue. I can't imagine that they just sat on Deliverance though, even with a much diminished Legion and Fleet, they would have no doubt have engaged the traitors on some level.


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## Angel of Blood

To quote myself from another thread



Angel of Blood said:


> It only really just occured to me about the Alpha Legionaires final words in The Face of Treachery. "In times such as these, even the most trusted face can conceal an enemy."
> 
> 
> 
> Now, whilst quite easily just telling the World Eater that spies can be anywhere, what is the point in telling him? It's almost a 'no shit Sherlock' style statement to make to a dying World Eater, but more meaning to us perhaps. Now possiibly and probably a long shot and a leap, but Valerius spent a good deal of time trying to gain Branne and the Raven Gauards complete trust as is finally rewarded with it. And then only in the next scene we are shown what trust can lead to. Again, bit of a leap, but interesting to me nonetheless


So perhaps the Alpha Legion wanted to ensure a spy was placed within the XIX Legion. For what purposes, who knows. Might not even be the case, but an interesting idea to me anyway.


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## ckcrawford

For one thing, the Raven Guard, as a legion, are pretty much a destroyed one. Yes, they are still a good fighting force, so they could provide much of a threat to Horus as a shock type force. 

However, if the Alpha Legion's intent was for Horus to lose all along... then why not keep Corax alive? If we remember from _Raven's Flight_, Corax disliked the Emperor's Imperium. The Imperium gave him purpose. But what would Corax do now that it was broken? Further point, Corax was one of the Primarch's besides Khan that pretty much had next to nothing to gain for adhering to the codex. Without purpose and his cloning incident, he pretty much went suicidal and went into the Eye of Terror. 

Maybe Alpharius new this weakness in Corax, and knew he would only create more suffering for himself and legion.


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## Words_of_Truth

Possibly but in _Raven's Flight_ you know the thoughts of the Valerius and it doesn't really seem to reflect that of a traitor.


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## ckcrawford

Words_of_Truth said:


> Possibly but in _Raven's Flight_ you know the thoughts of the Valerius and it doesn't really seem to reflect that of a traitor.


I wasn't saying that Corax and his legion were going to end up being traitors. More in the line that now, Corax is broken because he doesn't feel like he has purpose, he would end up being a potential threat to the Imperium because of his actions similarly like Dorn.


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## Words_of_Truth

ckcrawford said:


> I wasn't saying that Corax and his legion were going to end up being traitors. More in the line that now, Corax is broken because he doesn't feel like he has purpose, he would end up being a potential threat to the Imperium because of his actions similarly like Dorn.


I was responding to Angel of Blood sorry


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## Angel of Blood

Indeed, but its still food for thought. And we know the Alpha Legion use sleeper agents, some of whom don't even know they are agents. Like i said, its unlikely, but still, throwing it out there.


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## docgeo

Hopefully it is a sign that they hadn't totally bought into the Cabal's plan. I still feel that a majority of the legion now under Omgeon might still have the Imperiums best interest at heart. That would be a great twist if they eventually returned to the Imperium. It would shake things up.

Doc


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## TheReverend

Angel of Blood said:


> So perhaps the Alpha Legion wanted to ensure a spy was placed within the XIX Legion. For what purposes, who knows. Might not even be the case, but an interesting idea to me anyway.


Just finished the story and I'm totally of this opinion. Though making the guardsman the spy is far too obvious. In a scene just before the end Branne greets his old friend Agapito, I'm thinking this guy is a bigger suspect for spy. 
He obviously looks and acts the same so maybe daemonic possession? 

we'll see I guess.


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## MontytheMighty

not more of this AL "invisible hand behind the scenes" bullshit

excuse me while I barf


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## Moriar the Forsaken

I agree with Monty.

The elephant in the room is Why the Alpha Legion is doing anything.

How many books and stories more will this be left "mysterious" on purpose, especially since the ending was fumbled in Legion?


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## Angel of Blood

In your opinion the ending was fumbled. Many of us disagree and love the mystery of the Alpha Legion. It's a hell of alot more refreshing than most of the Legions.


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## Moriar the Forsaken

Yes, it is "my opinion" (and you're entitled to yours too). But why do you feel the need to state the obvious?

:scratchhead:


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## TooNu

I'm probably the only one that thinks this but perhaps Corax was saved becuase Alpharius is doing what the cabal asked of him. If he was doing this, thus on the path of "good" like the loyal legions, then surely he would have some feelings towards his brother...and then try to save his life.


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## docgeo

I think it does have something to do with the fact that Alpha Legion isn't at their heart loyal to Chaos. They are only half-heartedly walking the 8-fold path. Now don't get me wrong some of their nimbers have jumped in with both feet(see DOWII). I have a feeling the majority of the legion is still loyal and waiting for who knows what to happen.

Doc


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## FORTHELION

Personally i think Alpha Legion are totally part of chaos now. Maybe during the Heresy they might of had some good intensions, which in my opinion completely backfired. They are now as bad as the rest of the traitor legions. 

I also hated legion and thought only bfta was a worse book. Having said that i totally agree with AOB on this one, there is a spy somewhere hidden in the Raven Guard.


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## space cowboy

I always get a kick out of people's opinions of various books as I would count Legion in my top 5 (usually 4th after First Heretic then Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns, but sometimes after Horus Rising, depending on my nostalgia for those first Heresy books.) I am not saying that it is good or bad to hold those opinions, just that it always fascinates me to hear other people's opinions.

That being said, I feel that, at this point in the Heresy, the Alpha Legion are playing both sides. I think they recognize that the Primarchs, at the very least, are going to need to survive as a general rule in order for humanity to have the chance to destroy itself if Horus wins and if he doesn't win, then the fractured Imperium is going to need those same primarchs to rebuild the Imperium. I think they are trying to middle their bet that Horus will win.


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## Unknown Primarch

maybe alpharius is acting on something he witnessed in the actuity. maybe in all futures he saw that corax lived or played some part in the many possible threads of time and felt he couldnt let him die. 

or he knew that he would end up going into the eye and somewhere in there he turns to chaos and corax is know part of the forces that will spew from the eye for the end times. just a thought.


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## Zooey72

How AL would know this is beyond me, but

Corax did go and create an army of mutants after he went back, than fell into deep sorrow and flew into the eye of terror. They may have been hoping for just that outcome.

A fallen primarch leading a bunch of Chaos Spawn marines.

Edited to add that tampering with the Geneseed is part of the reason the Emp's children fell


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

On this topic, the synopsis for _Deliverance Lost_ has been posted up:

_"Corax and the few remaining Raven Guard escaped the massacre at Isstvan V but must now tend their wounds and replenish their numbers before they can return to the fray. Listless and distraught, the primarch returns to Terra to seek the Emperor’s counsel and is guided to the ancient genetech used to create the first Space Marines. While he seeks to rebuild his Legion and seek vengeance upon the Emperor’s Children for their betrayal, Corax is unaware that the shadowy agents of the Alpha Legion move among the Raven Guard, and that his own survival has merely been part of a far greater plan."_

Thought that may have been of interest to some of you.


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## Words_of_Truth

Ok two things that interest me there.

1. Surprised he's going to Terra

2. I wonder whether the Alpha Legion are going to be like the Alpha Legion in "Legion" or are they going to be a generic legion seeking to destroy the Imperium in a subtle way. Also you'd think the Raven Guard where the worse legion to choose to infiltrate since they seem to be amongst the most "intelligent" when it comes to infiltration themselves compared to other legions.


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## Lord of the Night

This explains why the Alpha Legion made sure the World Eaters could not stop Corax from escaping Istvaan, and even destroyed a Battlebarge just to save their loyalist cousins. If the World Eaters had destroyed Corax it would have killed the Alpha Legionnaires masquerading as Raven Guard, and ruined whatever greater plan they have.

And now it talks about the gene-tech, the dreaded Raven Guard of the Horus Heresy that few ever speak of. Why do I get the feeling it wasn't Corax's fault that his experiments turned out the way they did.

An awesome blurb, has gotten me vastly more interested in _Deliverance Lost_ as I cannot wait to see the Sons of Corax and the Sons of the Hydra clash, two legions with the same strength. Infiltration and black ops warfare.


Lord of the Night


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## Words_of_Truth

Hmm who _would_ win between Corax and Alpharius/Omegon.


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## Lord of the Night

Hard to tell. Corax beat Lorgar with some effort but lost soundly to Konrad Curze. And we have never seen Alpharius or Omegon fight somebody on their level. And I doubt we ever will.


Lord of the Night


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## Words_of_Truth

Lord of the Night said:


> Hard to tell. Corax beat Lorgar with some effort but lost soundly to Konrad Curze. And we have never seen Alpharius or Omegon fight somebody on their level. And I doubt we ever will.
> 
> 
> Lord of the Night


Corax never fought Curze and I would hardly say he beat Lorgar _with effort_, Lorgar hit Corax once, while Corax easily stabbed him through the chest, in terms of Primarch duels I'd say it was the easiest. 

Alpharius/Omegon did get hit by that trooper in Legion, if he can be surprised by him its possible Corax would be to quick for him.


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## Lord of the Night

Words_of_Truth said:


> Corax never fought Curze and I would hardly say he beat Lorgar _with effort_, Lorgar hit Corax once, while Corax easily stabbed him through the chest, in terms of Primarch duels I'd say it was the easiest.
> 
> Alpharius/Omegon did get hit by that trooper in Legion, if he can be surprised by him its possible Corax would be to quick for him.


Corax and Curze did fight. After Corax bested Lorgar and was about to kill him Curze stepped in and soundly bested Corax, forcing him to retreat away from the fight.


Lord of the Night


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## Words_of_Truth

Lord of the Night said:


> Corax and Curze did fight. After Corax bested Lorgar and was about to kill him Curze stepped in and soundly bested Corax, forcing him to retreat away from the fight.
> 
> 
> Lord of the Night


He grabbed his claw to stop him from finishing Lorgar, that's hardly a fight.


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## bobss

Words_of_Truth said:


> He grabbed his claw to stop him from finishing Lorgar, that's hardly a fight.


Pretty much. Not to mention how Corax had already slaughtered a good chunk of the Gal Vorbak --most likely sustaining wounds and becoming more exhausted-- and we don't know what Curze had been doing until that time. 

Deliverance Lost's blurb huh? Seems like it's got the potential to either rock with its mystery and intruige, or fall flat on its face with a convoluted plot which doesn't really make sense or add anything to the Horus Heresy.

Good luck to Gav Thorpe, I guess.


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## Cowlicker16

Lord of the Night said:


> And now it talks about the gene-tech, the dreaded Raven Guard of the Horus Heresy that few ever speak of. Why do I get the feeling it wasn't Corax's fault that his experiments turned out the way they did.
> 
> Lord of the Night


Know that we know AL were involved I could totally see that but for what end? I'm under the impression that that would not be some over-night thing and so even if they do mess with clones it wouldn't have an extreme effect on the siege. So if we go at face value of the cabal and them wanting Horus to win how would this actually make that so in the short run?


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## Angel of Blood

I did call it! The closing comments by the Alpha Legionaires heavily implied there were spies within the Raven Guard.

And are we really going to back in the Kurze Vs Corax debate again? Soundly beaten? Hardly, Corax was now outnumbered, one of whom has only recently entered the field. Corax did what any smart person would and withdrew now the odds were against him and went back to helping his legion as best as he could.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Lord of the Night said:


> Why do I get the feeling it wasn't Corax's fault that his experiments turned out the way they did.


It was always established that it was Corax's fault that he turned his Legion into one consisting of monsters and mutants, but the synopsis does seem to suggest that after seeking the Emperor's counsel he was guided to the technology required to rebuild his Legion, but guided by whom is the question. The Emperor? Or perhaps some agent of Chaos, the Alpha Legion perhaps? Maybe they attempt to cause some form of revolution within the Raven Guard by forcing Corax into creating unstable mutants? Just a thought.

Its also interesting why the Raven Guard sought vengeance specifically on the Emperor's Children, perhaps we will be seeing a fair bit of the III Legion in _Deliverance Lost_:

_"...the primarch returns to Terra to seek the Emperor’s counsel and is guided to the ancient genetech used to create the first Space Marines. While he seeks to rebuild his Legion and seek vengeance upon the Emperor’s Children for their betrayal..."_



Words_of_Truth said:


> Alpharius/Omegon did get hit by that trooper in Legion, if he can be surprised by him its possible Corax would be to quick for him.


If indeed that was actually Alpharius...


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## Words_of_Truth

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> It was always established that it was Corax's fault that he turned his Legion into one consisting of monsters and mutants, but the synopsis does seem to suggest that after seeking the Emperor's counsel he was guided to the technology required to rebuild his Legion, but guided by whom is the question. The Emperor? Or perhaps some agent of Chaos, the Alpha Legion perhaps? Maybe they attempt to cause some form of revolution within the Raven Guard by forcing Corax into creating unstable mutants? Just a thought.
> 
> Its also interesting why the Raven Guard sought vengeance specifically on the Emperor's Children, perhaps we will be seeing a fair bit of the III Legion in _Deliverance Lost_:
> 
> _"...the primarch returns to Terra to seek the Emperor’s counsel and is guided to the ancient genetech used to create the first Space Marines. While he seeks to rebuild his Legion and seek vengeance upon the Emperor’s Children for their betrayal..."_
> 
> 
> 
> If indeed that was actually Alpharius...


It was the captain of the recon squad which turned out to be Omegon. At least that's what I thought.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Words_of_Truth said:


> It was the captain of the recon squad which turned out to be Omegon. At least that's what I thought.


You were originally referring to the last scene right at the end when _'Alpharius'_ is stabbed by the Lucifer Black just before he kills Namatjira right? If so, then _Legion_ portrays it as being Alpharius, but it may not have been. That was my point.


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## Words_of_Truth

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> You were originally referring to the last scene right at the end when _'Alpharius'_ is stabbed by the Lucifer Black just before he kills Namatjira right? If so, then _Legion_ portrays it as being Alpharius, but it may not have been. That was my point.


Yeah that's it.


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## Chaosveteran

I think it was Alpharius, but he was just toying with the Lucifer Black...if he wanted to kill him fast, he would have done so on the spot...


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## Cowlicker16

We do know "Alpharius" is really quick, as we learned from his first encounter with Horus where he dodged shots from his bolter.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Cowlicker16 said:


> We do know "Alpharius" is really quick, as we learned from his first encounter with Horus where he dodged shots from his bolter.


Although to be fair IIRC that encounter may not have actually happened at all, considering that information comes from Inquisitor Kravin.


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## TheReverend

Cowlicker16 and Child-of-the-Emperor, where are these events noted? are they in a novel or some other reference material?


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## Words_of_Truth

The discovery of Alpharius by Horus is from the Index Astartes article from white dwarf a long time ago.


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## TheReverend

ok cool, cheers, I'll check it out


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## Angel of Blood

We'll probably never know who killed Chayne and Namatjira. It states it's Apharius, but who ever it is tells Chayne "That's all you get", which is exactly what Ranko told Chayne earlier on in the book when he slightly stuck his sword into Rankos armour. So yeah, will probably never know and thats likely the idea.


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## Angel of Blood

Well the updated synopsis for Deliverance Lost is out, with a telling part added on



> As the Horus Heresy divides the Imperium, Corax and his few remaining Raven Guard escape the massacre at Isstvan V. Tending to their wounds, the bloodied Space Marines endeavour to replenish their numbers and return to the fray, taking the fight to the traitor Warmaster. Distraught at the crippling blow dealt to his Legion, Corax returns to Terra to seek the aid of his father – the Emperor of Mankind. Granted access to ancient secrets, Corax begins to rebuild the Raven Guard, planning his revenge against his treacherous brother primarchs. *But not all his remaining warriors are who they appear to be… the mysterious Alpha Legion have infiltrated the survivors and plan to destroy the Raven Guard before they can rebuild and threaten Horus’s plans.*


And earlier this thread i said...



Angel of Blood said:


> To quote myself from another thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It only really just occured to me about the Alpha Legionaires final words in The Face of Treachery. "In times such as these, even the most trusted face can conceal an enemy."
> 
> Now, whilst quite easily just telling the World Eater that spies can be anywhere, what is the point in telling him? It's almost a 'no shit Sherlock' style statement to make to a dying World Eater, but more meaning to us perhaps. Now possiibly and probably a long shot and a leap, but Valerius spent a good deal of time trying to gain Branne and the Raven Gauards complete trust as is finally rewarded with it. And then only in the next scene we are shown what trust can lead to. Again, bit of a leap, but interesting to me nonetheless
> 
> 
> 
> So perhaps the Alpha Legion wanted to ensure a spy was placed within the XIX Legion. For what purposes, who knows. Might not even be the case, but an interesting idea to me anyway.
Click to expand...

I fucking knew it! Sneaky Alpha Legion agents.


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## Words_of_Truth

It just seems a little weird they'd save the legion only to destroy it again later. There's a lot more going on imo and I wouldn't be surprised if the spy was discovered pretty quickly.


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## cheeto

This is all too complicated. Destroy a battlebarge to ensure the placement of a spy? The cost of something like that is too high to be worth the effort. It's like those movies in which the good guy is out maneuvered by the bad guy who has predicted his every random move days in advance... too hard to believe.

Opinions being like assholes... I think AL is true to the Emperor and protecting a brother primarch who has already been beaten and effectively removed from relevance. They succeeded with the Raven Guard on Istvann already. No point adding insult to injury, especially if you are actually supporting the emperor.


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## MontytheMighty

Words_of_Truth said:


> the Alpha Legion wanted Corax to survive, and in fact did their utmost to the point of killing the World Eater Commander to make sure Corax escaped.


so Corax only survived because the AL gave him an invisible helping hand

against their dim-witted brother legions, the AL can pretty much pull off whatever they want...just great, how is that not a slap in the RG's face?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

MontytheMighty said:


> so Corax only survived because the AL gave him an invisible helping hand
> 
> against their dim-witted brother legions, the AL can pretty much pull off whatever they want...just great, how is that not a slap in the RG's face?


Its not a slap in their face at all. The majority of the Raven Guard Legion had been decimated on Isstvan V, the survivors were stretched to breaking point and surrounded by traitors. Realistically how else were the Raven Guard going to escape?


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## TheReverend

I think Alpharius wants his brother to survive, but at the same time, doesn't want the Raven Guard to be an effective force. So he saved Corax but doesn't want the RG rebuilt. 
A blunt knife if you will.

EDIT: just reading the Index Astartes articles on the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion and I've come to the conclusion that Corax is pretty similar to Alpharius in terms of tactics, the article describes Corax as _"his talents for sabotage and precision planning were employed to great effect..."_ _"covert operations, sabotage and operations behind enemy lines became the watch word..."_

Just an observation.


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## increaso

I may have measured them up incorrectly, but I see the Raven Guard as being 'behind enemy lines' style infiltrators of the enemy territory and Alpha Legion as actual manipulators who infiltrate the enemies army.

I'm not exactly convinced that the saving of Corax is an act of brotherly love, but something else. My theory is that the AL are playing both sides against each other so that neither acuity event will occur.


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## cheeto

increaso said:


> I'm not exactly convinced that the saving of Corax is an act of brotherly love, but something else. My theory is that the AL are playing both sides against each other so that neither acuity event will occur.



Probably. Ever wonder if the authors who write the story know themselves? There are so many loose ends involving the AL that I honestly have no idea what they are up to. For instance, it's quite plausible to think it's unrealistic that a Space Marine Legion would meet with a bunch of aliens and accept what they propose as truth. That could be explained by the tech behind the demonstration I suppose, but the Cabal proposed two options, neither of which panned out. What gets me is that, while I believe the AL sided with the cause of the emperor by siding with Horus, what are they now to do seeing that neither scenario presented by the Cabal came to fruition?

They can't come out after the fact and say "oops! We were on your side all along guys, it just didn't work out!" The imperium would never forgive such a transgression. So now the AL is in limbo... Personally, I don't believe the story writers even know what is up with the AL. To me it's just a wild card in the 40k universe. I still think the AL is loyal, but I think the writers could go either way with that legion. For what it's worth!:russianroulette:


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## Roninman

Angel of Blood said:


> In your opinion the ending was fumbled. Many of us disagree and love the mystery of the Alpha Legion. It's a hell of alot more refreshing than most of the Legions.


This. Its so much more interesting they do something that would suprise you and make you as a reader think. I would love to see them so much more backed by a good author.


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## Kelnor

Hi,

i just wanted to add my two cents to the topic. To me, the whole AL story is way over the top. Like another guy here pointed out, its like "The Dark Knight" all over again, with the AL being the Joker. They always have a backup plan, are hardly ever suprised and you never know if thats what you reading is the truth or something they made up. Sure, a little bit of mystery that makes you think is fine, but its too much in this case. 

So they have spies in the Raven Guard now. Great. In the end, it was the AL who orchestrated the creation of babbling mutants by the RG, which in turn drove Corax to the point of maddness and a nice vacation in the Eye of Terror. Not stopping there, it was the AL who rigged the Transporter in the Imperial Palace, which scattered the Loyalists on the Vengeful Spirit. And it was Alpharius/Omegon/SomeMarinepretendingtobe who was responsible for Sanginius getting killed by Horus by having a trip wire installed on the bridge...all because a Wizard did it.

I'm sorry. I'm all for mystery and hidden agendas and so on. But in my eyes, this was much better done in other books. Take the first heretic for example. We, the readers, know that Lorgar and the WB are up to no good, scheming and plotting for 40 years and turning their brother legions to Chaos. Its much more interesting to understand the motives of the conspirators, to read their thoughts and doubts and everything that leads them to their actions. This way, they all are essentially plot conveniences, whos agendas and ultimate goals can be turned in every direction, just as the story needs them to be.


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