# Yet another random Sisters of Battle discussion thread



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Discussion on Sisters in general can continue in the other threads, this one is for actual viable tidbits and observations. Please don't derail it. Anything new gets spotted, I'll add it in here. 

I foresee this thread may lay dormant for a while, but if anything new comes up this'll be where it will go.



Silvertabby said:


> I had something pointed out to me today, and I felt a need to investigate further.
> 
> Zion mentioned that the Order of the Sacred Rose has been undergoing some colour changes. Initially it was white, with black robes and red inners in 2nd Ed. Then in C:WH it was white with totally black robes. Now in the 6th Ed BRB it's been shifted to the colours of the Sisters secondary force (that was painted for C:WH), white with totally red robes.
> 
> ...





Silvertabby said:


> Here's something that was raised for the Chaos codex and has got me thinking.
> 
> The chaos colour section has new colour varients in it for the big 4 legions. the Chaos rumour thread has my thoughts on it, but following that I had a real good close look at the Sisters colour section. I know the models in that army. I painted a fair few of them. And there are two new ones in there: bottom right of the second page.
> 
> ...





Troublehalf said:


> Interesting bit of text on the new ForgeWorld aircraft model:
> 
> "The Avenger is often specifically requested by the Adeptus Sororitas should they require close support in their purgations."
> 
> That suggests the Sisters of Battle have been taken into consideration for the lore... Meaning, if they were to be removed from the game, I doubt they would of been mentioned. Perhaps it's a sign of things to come.... Let's hope, eh?


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

The absence of the Excorcist tank from GW's web "Rock hard tanks" display seems to coordinate with the rumours that the vehicle is being redone in the near future.


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## Cho Kai (Oct 21, 2011)

I will point out that the Exorcist is pretty much a Rhino/Razorback Chasis... All Imperial listings on that "Rock hard tanks" group are AV14 (landraider, Leman Russ, or eqivilant) or Superheavy. Unless I was seeing Whirlwinds and Piranas I would not read much into that.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

How do you figure? Imperial Guard Manticore/Deathstrike is only AV12 with 3 hullpoints. Space Marine Predators are only AV13, same as the Excorcist. Other non-Imperials like the Tau Hammerhead and Skyray are only armor 13, Fire Prism is only AV 12. Ghost Ark is only 13 with shielding, 11 without. There's no reason it shouldn't be on there.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

I think most (if not all) of the "Rock Hard Tanks" are ones that fall into the "Heavy Support" category, which the Exorcist certainly is.


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## Cho Kai (Oct 21, 2011)

Okay, slightly exaggerative on my part. The Fire Prism may only be AV12 but it can take a beating better than a Land Raider. The Manticore, though admittedly low armor, is definitely the profile of a Leman Russ than a Rhino. As aesetics go, the Exorcist would stick out like a sore thumb.

To the other Xenos, Necrons and fliers are their current poster models, I am not surprised they bent a little for Necrons. As for the Tau listings, I think that was mostly to keep Tau players from feeling left out. I think we have already established that GW does not have the same desire to keep SoB from feeling left out / abandoned that they do with the other armies. It is not like they precisely listed everything from a certain AV and up; they listed 12 tanks and 3 superheavies.

I will believe GW have plans for SoB when they publish a rulebook that is not just getting rid of Allies rules before the new edition, start actually re-doing some of our models, or publish a flier for our army. Rumours don't even circulate about anything new for Sisters.

I may be misreading things but I think reading us not being listed in another part of the website is more likely an oversight (deliberate or not) than something to draw inspiration off of.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Cho Kai said:


> Okay, slightly exaggerative on my part. The Fire Prism may only be AV12 but it can take a beating better than a Land Raider. The Manticore, though admittedly low armor, is definitely the profile of a Leman Russ than a Rhino. As aesetics go, the Exorcist would stick out like a sore thumb.


Stick out because it's ugly? I agree but GW are the ones who designed it and think it looked good. How does it differ from the Predator? It's the same chasis. A Manticore is a Chimera chasis which has nothing to do with the Leman Russ. 

Look at the stats. It's an AV13 tank, no transport capacity, large gun on top, options for defensive weapons and loadout, Heavy Support slot. Exactly like a Predator with a different gun. 

I stand by there's no reason it shouldn't have been included unless GW is either redoing the model sometime in the near future or they just are neglecting/ignoring SoB players.


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## andrewm9 (Aug 21, 2008)

Arcane said:


> Stick out because it's ugly? I agree but GW are the ones who designed it and think it looked good. How does it differ from the Predator? It's the same chasis. A Manticore is a Chimera chasis which has nothing to do with the Leman Russ.
> 
> Look at the stats. It's an AV13 tank, no transport capacity, large gun on top, options for defensive weapons and loadout, Heavy Support slot. Exactly like a Predator with a different gun.
> 
> I stand by there's no reason it shouldn't have been included unless GW is either redoing the model sometime in the near future or they just are neglecting/ignoring SoB players.


Its probably more of the latter than the former. When doing expansions, boxed sets, or anything for that matter, SoB tend to be neglected by GW. GW doesn't even bother to push the sales fo Sisters in the slightest. No wonder they don't sell. There is no aggressive marketing or pushing of sales for them in WD either.


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## Cho Kai (Oct 21, 2011)

Arcane said:


> Stick out because it's ugly?


I was thinking stick out because it looks more like a rhino... the Predators huge gun adds a certain amount of bulk to the look. Putting the whole assessment of the images aside as it really does not add a whole lot to the rumours discussion, I really think it is a matter of neglecting/ignoring SoB players. If we want to comment on website postings, we are not listed in the gift giving guide either.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

If i'm not mistaken this is going a little off topic (ie not talking about rumours themselves) on the same page where it was requested to stay on topic.


yes I admit I am normally the arch-nemesis of staying on topic


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## Voss (Jun 27, 2012)

andrewm9 said:


> Its probably more of the latter than the former. When doing expansions, boxed sets, or anything for that matter, SoB tend to be neglected by GW. GW doesn't even bother to push the sales fo Sisters in the slightest. No wonder they don't sell. There is no aggressive marketing or pushing of sales for them in WD either.


Honestly, at the moment, they really _can't_ push them for sales. They simply aren't in any shape to do so, even as an allied force. For almost everything else, a salesperson can hand you a blister and a box set (or two) and say 'here is the start of your army.' For sisters it is a _pile_ of blisters (assuming they even have any in the shop) just for the basic squad, that involves 3 blisters, plus another (superior), and two more (heavy +special) and possibly another (imagifer) and thats breaking $100 right there, for a single basic squad. And then they have to not make eyecontact with any of the ~$35 boxes for full units that are all over the store. 

And then they have to explain that while rules exist... you don't really have any way of obtaining them, sorry about that.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

The fact there is a lack of a Codex is the most likely reason they are not being pushed on the website.


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## Cho Kai (Oct 21, 2011)

I agree completely regarding the codex. They really need both models and a codex to make this army new player friendly... probably even a battleforce.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Seriously guys, there is an entire other thread for these discussions. I asked that this remain for rumours and observations that can be construed as rumours, and that it not get derailed. Please keep it that way so I don't have to wade through pages of random discussion to update the first page. There are 3 or so other threads ongoing this discussion can happen on...


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## Cho Kai (Oct 21, 2011)

I will post an update from Open Day regarding the Avenger:

via David5th in the Bols Lounge
"Just had a quick look while at open day. 150 pts - 2 las cannons , heavy stubber + avenger bolt cannon st6 ap3 heavy 7.CANNOT add punisher cannons but can Multi lasers , missile launchers or autocannons . Can have bombs aswell as FW flyer upgrades."


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

I can see sisters coming out within mid or late 2013. GW is going to make a lot of money off 6th edition, dark angels and chaos space marines. After generating a lot of money they can afford to take a gamble with a non popular army like sisters of battle.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Necrosis said:


> I can see sisters coming out within mid or late 2013. GW is going to make a lot of money off 6th edition, dark angels and chaos space marines. After generating a lot of money they can afford to take a gamble with a non popular army like sisters of battle.


You mean in addition to the other "high risk" armies (Grey Knights, Dark Eldar) who ended up having their sales boosted enough to prove that updating is better than not?


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Zion said:


> You mean in addition to the other "high risk" armies (Grey Knights, Dark Eldar) who ended up having their sales boosted enough to prove that updating is better than not?


A risk is still a risk. If you toss a coin twice and in both tosses it heads, does that mean the third toss will also be heads?


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Actually I would wager that SoB are one of the more popular armies fluff wise, after SM of course and possibly IG, not only that, they are one of the few armies who still keeps the high-gothic grimdark theme of 40k at heart with their cherubs, scrolls, skulls and all making their equipment look straight out of a medieval ossuary. Half the 40k fanfiction and art you find on the internet is dedicated towards them. The only thing keeping them back, and has been is the catch-22 that other members have described with their metal models. This is why I hate the WD codex. It did more harm than good. At least with it there was a legitimate, available codex, which was quite good in the right hands and still 10 model boxes for troops available. Ahh... how I miss those days. When they discontinued them the only guess was they were being replaced as a reason. Now, over year later, it's clear that the only ones holding up the SoB's release are Gamesworkshop themselves. There's no excuse.


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## Sexxy Camera (Apr 3, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...78488.50136.172179092796929&type=3&permPage=1

Pictures of some true scale sisters


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## rlavallee821 (Jul 20, 2012)

I couldn't agree more. I read about this on GameInformer forums and people said the same things as in this forum. I haven't been online in a few weeks so I will let you know my findings!


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Given that within 3 posts of my original post, people had decided to ignore what I had asked and just turned this into another Sisters spam thread, I have duly changed it's title and stopped bothering with it. 

Mods, please feel free to either move it somewhere more appropriate, lock it or delete it (things I seem unable to do myself, sorry).


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

SilverTabby said:


> Given that within 3 posts of my original post, people had decided to ignore what I had asked and just turned this into another Sisters spam thread, I have duly changed it's title and stopped bothering with it.
> 
> Mods, please feel free to either move it somewhere more appropriate, lock it or delete it (things I seem unable to do myself, sorry).


I'll save the actual informative bits for reposting once I get off work. Maybe we we have more to go on we'll be able to keep this more on track.


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

I was going to post the only other bit of information that I can see being a sign for things to come.

In the WD when it announced 6th Edition, it did a several page spread on Psychic Powers. Mat Ward mentions those that use Pyskers, those that don't use Pyskers and those that manipulate the Warp in different ways, like Orks. Now, at the moment we KNOW that Sisters of Battle cannot use Psykers, so, why did Mat Ward not mention them in the "They don't use/have Psykers" sentence? Is this because the game design team does not know if they WILL have Psykers or Psychic abilities when they are updated? Couldn't you see the SoB using the power of the Emperor that is fighting stuff in the Warp? I don't know, tapping into the aura of his psychic presence and getting a buff or like Holy Fevor or something?


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Troublehalf said:


> I was going to post the only other bit of information that I can see being a sign for things to come.
> 
> In the WD when it announced 6th Edition, it did a several page spread on Psychic Powers. Mat Ward mentions those that use Pyskers, those that don't use Pyskers and those that manipulate the Warp in different ways, like Orks. Now, at the moment we KNOW that Sisters of Battle cannot use Psykers, so, why did Mat Ward not mention them in the "They don't use/have Psykers" sentence? Is this because the game design team does not know if they WILL have Psykers or Psychic abilities when they are updated? Couldn't you see the SoB using the power of the Emperor that is fighting stuff in the Warp? I don't know, tapping into the aura of his psychic presence and getting a buff or like Holy Fevor or something?


Interesting bit of notes. I'll add it to the overall collection. Maybe once we start getting more info we'll know more.

Random thought of my own in regards to that, there is the possibility that GW HASN't decided if the Acts of Faith are part of that "Almost all humans are at least a little bit psychicly capable" thing or not.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Troublehalf said:


> I was going to post the only other bit of information that I can see being a sign for things to come.
> 
> In the WD when it announced 6th Edition, it did a several page spread on Psychic Powers. Mat Ward mentions those that use Pyskers, those that don't use Pyskers and those that manipulate the Warp in different ways, like Orks. Now, at the moment we KNOW that Sisters of Battle cannot use Psykers, so, why did Mat Ward not mention them in the "They don't use/have Psykers" sentence? Is this because the game design team does not know if they WILL have Psykers or Psychic abilities when they are updated? Couldn't you see the SoB using the power of the Emperor that is fighting stuff in the Warp? I don't know, tapping into the aura of his psychic presence and getting a buff or like Holy Fevor or something?


Or that Mat Ward just doesn't give SoB much thought and overlooked them as per usual GW practice.

For what it's worth I was just trying to offer some valid speculation about the Excorcist tank but it seems, as usual, even that can't go without being picked to death.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Arcane said:


> Or that Mat Ward just doesn't give SoB much thought and overlooked them as per usual GW practice.
> 
> For what it's worth I was just trying to offer some valid speculation about the Excorcist tank but it seems, as usual, even that can't go without being picked to death.


 I don't think Ward doesn't think about the Sisters much, he has after all bothered to include them in the Grey Knights codex (even if it was handled in a poorly thought out manner), wrote the WD codex fluff section (much of which is actually completely revised fluff) and gave them a legitimate nod in the 6th rulebook.

So I'd say he's well aware of them, and probably had to do some serious homework thus far (though he needs to add some 0s to those numbers. There aren't enough Sisters to cover all the things they do for/in the Imperium with that low body count).

I was with you on the Exorcist. It's observations like that which eventually lead to more complete pictures of what's going on down the road. Of course we're all a bunch of naysayers though and can't accept positive ideas. Too much chain yanking from other 40kers and from the GW brass I suppose.


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## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Zion said:


> Of course we're all a bunch of naysayers though and can't accept positive ideas. Too much chain yanking from other 40kers and from the GW brass I suppose.


Hard to stay positive for 13 years I would guess, but hey! Dark Eldar are good now. Hard to accept great ideas when you know it can take them that long to do something.


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

I know this is just random stuff, but this is the kind of lore/fluff that follows SoB. However, they have been slightly 'buffed' in terms of how they perform in lore, but nothing to the scale of GK/UltraMarines. The fluff is actually pretty important in the progress of an army... If it's bad then you know it could be paving the way to "And they were so bad that the Imperium/Xeno Leaders disbanded the army" or something like that. As I said, the following stuff has all happened to SoB, which shows how hated they are/were.

1. A whole Order turned to Chaos by one Slaaneshi Keeper of Secrets. 

2. A whole Order Mind Controlled by one chaos Psyker. 

3. A strike force of Celestians and an Inquisitor being killed, cannibalized, and sacrificed by the Sons of Malice Astartes chapter for disturbing their victory rites and falsely accusing the chapter of heresy. (Imperium does nothing... Apart from declaring the Sons of Malice to be heretics anyway.) 

4. A whole Commandery being killed by Flesh Tearers Astartes chapter (who were eating allied militia at the time). (Imperium does nothing.) 

5. Three whole Orders killed by the Space Wolves Astartes chapter when they try to inquire about that ship full of unarmed priests the Space Wolves shot down earlier. (Imperium, again, does nothing.) 


6. A whole shrine-world of Sisters killed by Chaos Dreadnought. Said dread shrugs off meltas, meltabombs and multiple Exorcist volleys, a Living Saint even gives up her divinity to stop it, and fails. It's destroyed instantly when a Marine throws a hammer at it. 

7. Necron Lord Trazyn the Infinite keeps the head of Sebastian Thor mounted on his wall like a Deer Trophy. God damn it, Ward.

8. The Khornite Knights event.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Troublehalf said:


> 6. A whole shrine-world of Sisters killed by Chaos Dreadnought. Said dread shrugs off meltas, meltabombs and multiple Exorcist volleys, a Living Saint even gives up her divinity to stop it, and fails. It's destroyed instantly when a Marine throws a hammer at it.


My understanding of how this actually works (because I STILL don't know where this all comes from) is that it was a Daemon Engine, the thrown hammer makes things worse and the Saint gives up her divinity to stop it.

But I can't verify this either way because this goes back and forth with no one citing a source.

There are good sources of fluff too. Black Library has the Sisters based books which aren't bad considering the source (James Swallow can be VERY hit or miss, but overall isn't bad, and Hammer and Anvil includes the Sisters retrieving a Holy Relic, blowing up a Necron controlled MOON and defeating an entire ARMY of Necrons on Sanctuary 101), and in the first BL Grey Knight book a group of Sisters is commended for their martial prowess (by a Grey Knight no less) when they kill several Grey Knights when they're ambushed by the shiny gits.

Overall I feel that it's not really that the Sisters are hated, just that GW likes to beat on other armies in any given codex, and that Sisters are one of the armies that gets a lot of hits but hasn't had a chance to hit back yet. I'm hoping to see some major ass kicking included in the eventual Sisters Dex to make up for it.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Troublehalf said:


> 1. A whole Order turned to Chaos by one Slaaneshi Keeper of Secrets.


Greatly exaggerated. It wasn't an entire order. Maybe a mission but not an entire order



> 2. A whole Order Mind Controlled by one chaos Psyker.


See above



> 3. A strike force of Celestians and an Inquisitor being killed, cannibalized, and sacrificed by the Sons of Malice Astartes chapter for disturbing their victory rites and falsely accusing the chapter of heresy. (Imperium does nothing... Apart from declaring the Sons of Malice to be heretics anyway.)


Malice no longer exist so Sons of Malice technically don't exist, so feel free to ignore this story or threat it as fan fiction.



> 4. A whole Commandery being killed by Flesh Tearers Astartes chapter (who were eating allied militia at the time). (Imperium does nothing.)


Matt Ward changed this so it never happened. I'm serious.



> 5. Three whole Orders killed by the Space Wolves Astartes chapter when they try to inquire about that ship full of unarmed priests the Space Wolves shot down earlier. (Imperium, again, does nothing.)


This is a straight out lie. All we know is that the sisters retreated.



> 6. A whole shrine-world of Sisters killed by Chaos Dreadnought. Said dread shrugs off meltas, meltabombs and multiple Exorcist volleys, a Living Saint even gives up her divinity to stop it, and fails. It's destroyed instantly when a Marine throws a hammer at it.


It wasn't a living saint. Also it wasn't a Chaos Dreadnought.



> 7. Necron Lord Trazyn the Infinite keeps the head of Sebastian Thor mounted on his wall like a Deer Trophy. God damn it, Ward.


We got no idea how he got his head, maybe he went grave digging?



> 8. The Khornite Knights event.


No comment on this one.


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## mahavira (Jan 10, 2010)

You missed at least one "highlight" of the Sisters: being the dupes of a lunatic inquisitor who thinks keeping a Lictor in the basement is a good idea, generally fumbling their part of the planetary defense, and being slaughtered to the last when the nids follow the Lictor to their abbey.

I can't talk about other Black Library authors, but Sandy Mitchell hates Sisters something fierce (unless they drink, smoke, gamble and sleep around, aka acting nothing like a battle sister).

To be honest I suspect many of the GW writing staff fundamentally doesn't accept that the SoB have a legitimate function - enforcing the will and doctrine of the church is contrary to notions of religious freedom and unlike purging aliens, something sufficiently closely connected to reality that they actively don't like it. You'll note that Inquisitors always seem to be ordo xenos rather than hereticus, and more like black ops teams than anything inquisitorial, and neither of the prominent BL commissars particularly resemble the description in the book (I believe that between them, Gaunt and Cain have used summary execution once in nearly 20 books).

Establishing that heresy is not just harmless free thinking, but regularly leads to daemon worship, mutation or subjugation to predatory aliens would go a way to "rehabilitating" the SoB. The "Wars of Faith" are never explained so I expect most people assume the worst, that the average battle fought by the SoB is against unarmed and innocent civillians.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

mahavira said:


> Establishing that heresy is not just harmless free thinking, but regularly leads to daemon worship, mutation or subjugation to predatory aliens would go a way to "rehabilitating" the SoB. The "Wars of Faith" are never explained so I expect most people assume the worst, that the average battle fought by the SoB is against unarmed and innocent civillians.


There is actually a lot more info on things like Wars of Faith and the like explained in the old 2nd Ed Codex. A lot of good stuff in there actually in general. Granted a lot of that was removed in Codex: Witch Hunters to add Inquisitorial things, and the WD hasn't re-added it, but since none of the new stuff contradicts it I still count that kind of stuff as canon.

I forgot one of the biggest positive representations of Sisters: Ephrael Stern. When the Daemonfuge series was discontinued we still essentially had a Living Saint who had done a LOT of particularly awesome things, including writing the Stern Codex, which is a damn near complete tome on the full nature (including strengths and weaknesses) of Slaanesh. Seriously, the woman kicked all kinds of ass and it's sad to see that the series just stopped as it was pretty promising.

But yes, not all Sisters related material is negative. Some people in the end don't get it, but then again in the end some people don't get pistachio ice cream.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Well, the 2nd ed book might have had some great stuff, but at this point it's apocryphal and retconned by Wardian (yes I just made up a word) fluff. Furthermore, every time GW does a promotional event/advertisement, they just blatently skip any SoB models, because hey, I guess they just really don't want to sell those dusty things they have sitting on the shelf over there in Nottingham. It's not hard to see why they get nocked so bad. 

It seems like every fluff that is positive about SoB, even Ephrael Stern, reads "Bunch of Sisters go to planet doom to retrieve shiny gold relic, most die, 2 manage to make it back with some loot, Space Marines cover their escape and pat them on the head". And of course an abrupt stop to any series involving them without any real closure.

Out of curiosity, what would be a good name for a knock off Sister of Battle if one were to make them available through say a 3d printing company? Space Nuns with Guns, Sisters of War...?


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Daughter of Battle, Bribes of War/Battle or reverse the order (Battle Daughters, War Bribes, Battle Bribes).
Witch Seekers, if you want to relate them to the Inquisition.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

mahavira said:


> You missed at least one "highlight" of the Sisters: being the dupes of a lunatic inquisitor who thinks keeping a Lictor in the basement is a good idea, generally fumbling their part of the planetary defense, and being slaughtered to the last when the nids follow the Lictor to their abbey.


This is rather simplified. The Inquisitor had gone rogue, true, but it's not like the Sisters knew this. And he was using the Lictor to draw the Tyranid swarms to the abbey. 

As for fumbling their part--well, they did kill so many Tyranids that they had advanced beyond what was prudent and this was compounded by the PDF attached to them who were so fatigued as to be useless (Cain observes this shows up to find out what is going on). And the Sisters do rally after butting heads with Cain.

And they chose to sacrifice themselves as a repentance for being duped by the renegade Inquisitor. And we don't quite know that they had been slaughtered to the last since there was that orbital strike that sheared off that whole portion of the plateau. (Fighting 'nids while falling into lava is a more awesome way to go in my mind.)



mahavira said:


> I can't talk about other Black Library authors, but Sandy Mitchell hates Sisters something fierce (unless they drink, smoke, gamble and sleep around, aka acting nothing like a battle sister).


Now that is unfair. There has only been one Sister that Mitchell has written that matches that description, and the first three occurred during a poker game. She's one that Cain actually likes because she's unlike the others he's met in his long career, she's someone he can relate to. (And she's in a secret relationship with another instructor in the schola, Cain's the first one to find out.)



mahavira said:


> To be honest I suspect many of the GW writing staff fundamentally doesn't accept that the SoB have a legitimate function - enforcing the will and doctrine of the church is contrary to notions of religious freedom and unlike purging aliens, something sufficiently closely connected to reality that they actively don't like it.


You are painting the authors with a broad brush. 

In _Enforcer_, the Sisters 

clash with the Arbites because the Sisters are there to claim a disputed Warrant of Trade as a holy relic (as it was signed by the Emperor himself and sealed with a drop of his blood). The two Rogue Trader heirs don't want to give it up (but can't decide who is the one that will get it).


In _Helsreach,_ the Sisters 

defend the first church founded on Armageddon (and the civilians in the undercroft) against the Orks for as long as they can (with eventual reinforcements from the BT and the Steel Legion when they adopt a strongpoint strategy).


In the short story "Mercy Run," the Sisters... 

okay, that story just disturbed me since it involved organ transplantation, but they were true to form, following their orders and willing to kill the guardsmen from a Cadia armored unit when they object to the Sisters completing their duty.


In all of these, the Sisters are following the Ecclesiarchy's orders. In the books I've read, I haven't come across the Sisters not acting like Sisters (with the exception of the Cain book where there were those that fell to Chaos, but in all fairness the psyker was a Warmaster and had corrupted a few planetary _systems_ before tangling with Cain). I will admit though that I have not read the whole of the Black Library, so if there are books where Sisters are not being Sisters, then I have not come across it yet.



mahavira said:


> ... and neither of the prominent BL commissars particularly resemble the description in the book (I believe that between them, Gaunt and Cain have used summary execution once in nearly 20 books).


Correct, but not the whole story. Both Gaunt and Cain are philosophically opposed to the use of summary execution. It's not in either man's character to do it. Both believe that there are other, more effective, methods (though for different reasons).

@Arcane: Eureka Miniatures has "Battle Nun Sisters" in their 25mm range. They are a touch naughty, though.

I wish there was a pic of the nuns on a motorcycle and sidecar (the one in the sidecar has a rocket launcher).


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Arcane said:


> Well, the 2nd ed book might have had some great stuff, but at this point it's apocryphal and retconned by Wardian (yes I just made up a word) fluff.


I disagree. I think only the fluff that contradicts or clashes with newer fluff is retconned. Wars of Faith still work the same, as do Holy Crusades, as well as a lot of things.



Arcane said:


> Furthermore, every time GW does a promotional event/advertisement, they just blatently skip any SoB models, because hey, I guess they just really don't want to sell those dusty things they have sitting on the shelf over there in Nottingham. It's not hard to see why they get nocked so bad.


I also don't see old Dark Angels models, Eldar or a lot of other OLD models in those promotions. Let's be honest, GW knows the newer stuff sells better so that's that they promote.



Arcane said:


> It seems like every fluff that is positive about SoB, even Ephrael Stern, reads "Bunch of Sisters go to planet doom to retrieve shiny gold relic, most die, 2 manage to make it back with some loot, Space Marines cover their escape and pat them on the head". And of course an abrupt stop to any series involving them without any real closure.


Try reading _Faith and Fire_ or _Hammer and Anvil_, no Space Marines there. And in the Ephrael Stern books the marines in question where Black Templars, most of which where tainted by Chaos so they ended up dead. Yet no one complains that Marines die in Daemonfuge. Go figure.


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## andrewm9 (Aug 21, 2008)

Zion said:


> There is actually a lot more info on things like Wars of Faith and the like explained in the old 2nd Ed Codex. A lot of good stuff in there actually in general. Granted a lot of that was removed in Codex: Witch Hunters to add Inquisitorial things, and the WD hasn't re-added it, but since none of the new stuff contradicts it I still count that kind of stuff as canon.
> 
> I forgot one of the biggest positive representations of Sisters: Ephrael Stern. When the Daemonfuge series was discontinued we still essentially had a Living Saint who had done a LOT of particularly awesome things, including writing the Stern Codex, which is a damn near complete tome on the full nature (including strengths and weaknesses) of Slaanesh. Seriously, the woman kicked all kinds of ass and it's sad to see that the series just stopped as it was pretty promising.


in teh same book where people say that a whole order falls to Chaos. I woudl tell them to reread daemonifuge as that same order stymies that same Keeper of Secretes with the purity of their souls since he had the temerity to to try to consume them. They help Stern and the Inquisitor defeat him in a very awesome way. Those sisters were misdirected and killed each other, but when removed from the prison of their bodies their souls are still pure.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

andrewm9 said:


> in teh same book where people say that a whole order falls to Chaos. I woudl tell them to reread daemonifuge as that same order stymies that same Keeper of Secretes with the purity of their souls since he had the temerity to to try to consume them. They help Stern and the Inquisitor defeat him in a very awesome way. Those sisters were misdirected and killed each other, but when removed from the prison of their bodies their souls are still pure.


It's not even a whole order in Daemonfuge either, it's only a coven who "fell" but only under very direct influence of Chaos, not willingly (basically they were tripped at best). Given the chance to get back up and redeem themselves they did exponentially (helping defeat a Greater Daemon, granting Stern the knowledge that allowed her to become in essense a living saint as well as create the Stern Codex which resides in the Black Library and is a living middle finger to Slaanesh as it lays out EVERYTHING there is to know about him).

Most Sisters don't fall on their own accord. If anything they're dragged kicking and screaming down the path of corruption, and even then that isn't even going to make most of them serve Chaos but instead use it as a tool to disrupt the plans of Chaos and drive a massive "fuck you" right through the middle of Chaos itself.

At least that's how I see it. How many stories have people read where the Sisters CHOOSE FREELY to serve Chaos and aren't tricked or forced to do so? Because so far I'm only aware of *one Sister* who has done that, but not having read her story I can't even say she made the choice herself.

Not bad for being a militant arm of the church who doesn't rely on hypnosis, gene-alterations or any of that other nonsense (looking at you Marines) but instead their own Faith and steel will to protect them and drive them on, eh?


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## andrewm9 (Aug 21, 2008)

Dicrel Seijin said:


> In all of these, the Sisters are following the Ecclesiarchy's orders. In the books I've read, I haven't come across the Sisters not acting like Sisters (with the exception of the Cain book where there were those that fell to Chaos, but in all fairness the psyker was a Warmaster and had corrupted a few planetary _systems_ before tangling with Cain). I will admit though that I have not read the whole of the Black Library, so if there are books where Sisters are not being Sisters, then I have not come across it yet.


You need to look at Redemption Corps where the Sisters are downright heretical utilizing an alien (Ork warboss) to test the planet/sector and make it strong. On another note, The Canoness and her Celestians get tooled by a Stormtrooper Captain.

In any case we should attempt to stay a little more on topic and I don't think we have anymore new rumors or news to report do we. The best we can say is that yes Sisters will eventually be done in plastic and get a full new codex, but no time soon in all likelihood.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

andrewm9 said:


> You need to look at Redemption Corps where the Sisters are downright heretical utilizing an alien (Ork warboss) to test the planet/sector and make it strong. On another note, The Canoness and her Celestians get tooled by a Stormtrooper Captain.


Just got back from reading the extract on the BL website. I'll look for a secondhand copy as it's OOP (and no, I won't pick up the ebook).


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## rasolyo (Dec 22, 2009)

Zion said:


> Most Sisters don't fall on their own accord. If anything they're dragged kicking and screaming down the path of corruption, and even then that isn't even going to make most of them serve Chaos but instead use it as a tool to disrupt the plans of Chaos and drive a massive "fuck you" right through the middle of Chaos itself.
> 
> At least that's how I see it. How many stories have people read where the Sisters CHOOSE FREELY to serve Chaos and aren't tricked or forced to do so? Because so far I'm only aware of *one Sister* who has done that, but not having read her story I can't even say she made the choice herself.
> 
> Not bad for being a militant arm of the church who doesn't rely on hypnosis, gene-alterations or any of that other nonsense (looking at you Marines) but instead their own Faith and steel will to protect them and drive them on, eh?


And this is what makes SoB fluff potentially more powerful than any Astartes chapter out there. Their sheer BALLS.


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