# Descriptions of Horus vs Images of him.



## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

Maybe it is just me, but when reading HH books with the descriptions of Horus, I don't imagine him in the Terminator armour with no peripheral vision and huge quantities of plugs in his bald scalp.

I was just looking at the picture that is here : http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2010/07/Age2.jpg

And while it is a nice fearsome depiction, that is completely at odds with the charasmatic, standing on the bridge looking out into space, wounded unto death by the anethma character I have in my head.

Anyone else, or am I the only one ?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

The terminator armours lack of peripheral vision has always been a big issue of mine. Like you said i realise it looks intimidating and all that and probably give alot more protection, but yeah, complete sacrifice of peripheral vision and having to turn your entire body to look around seems like a big con


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Well, I think its clear that the picture you link, the armor is inspired by the "Horus standing over Sang vs the Emperor" picture.

Which, for some, is more "Artistic License" than it is a photographic representation. Liken it to Da Vinci's "Last Supper" to get my meaning. Sure, the painting is an image of an event that took place, but its composition, the setting, and the individuals' expressions, looks, clothing, etc are all just based on the artist.

So no, I dont think Horus really wore such a thing or looked like such. I have it in my head as a more of a "Paradise Lost" Lucifer during the war in heaven type deal. 

Pardon the Christian heavy imagery, but I feel it conveys the point.


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

Wasn't he described as handsome or at least not looking like he pissed at the world constantly?

I can't see the person depicted in the images saying "He was the best of us," when speaking about a brother.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Keep in mind that many changes came about for Horus when he turned against the Emperor. Is it no surprise that he would adopt a completely different look than the one he had been known for? The one that is most commonly associated with the Emperor and everything he stood for?

In regards to the terminator armour and lack of vision, amongst other things. Horus is still a primarch, his sense are beyond that of any other who would be in such an armour, and he is powered by the chaos gods. Maybe he just didn't need his peripheral vision because he would be able to sense or feel anyone sneaking up on him?


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

darkreever said:


> Maybe he just didn't need his peripheral vision because he would be able to sense or feel anyone sneaking up on him?


Or maybe he didn't need peripheral vision because he could stop nearly any attack that hit him. At that point, he wouldn't need peripheral vision to kick the crap out of his "sneaky" attacker.

Just sayin... peripheral vision seems kind of pointless when you gain the ability to shrug off tank rounds. 

As for how Horus is depicted (noble and graceful vs. hateful and maniacal like in that piece of artwork), I think it exaggeratedly symbolizes his transformation.


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

But to this point in the Heresy, he is still "unenhanced" Would like a look at him pre-choas enhancement


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I still find lack of peripheral vision for any soldier a massive issue. Sure the armour looks cool but its still ridicolous to have no peripheral vision. Trust me on a battlefield its absoloutely essential


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

its 40k it doesn't really need to make much sense.
im sure there is probably enough sensor equipment in his terminator armour to alert him to any presence that maybe behind him and well he is a primarch so hes probably got extra sensory perception or something like that. 
now i cant remember of the top of my head, but I'm sure before then he had already been gifted his terminator armour by the fabricator general, so I'm sure he would have started to look like that by then


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

The peripheral vision thing shouldn't be a problem as terminator armour is supposed to have a bunch of extra scanners and other systems that normal power armour doesn't have (to the point that regular marines need adaptive surgery in order to use it properly) so someone wearing terminator armour doesn't need peripheral vision as the armour's sensors should pick anything up that tries to sneak up on them.
As for Horus's apearance in that picture, it's already during the heresy so I think the artist was deliberately trying to make him look evil. As Davidicus said, I think the artist was trying to symbolise how much Horus has changed from a noble & loyal son to a crazy & maniacal chaos lord. There is also mention in one of the heresy books (can't remember which one) after Davin where they describe Horus's look wearing his terminator armour that sounds quite sinister.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

I would take this zas being artistic license drawn from by someone who didn't actually witness the events in question. For a start Horus should be wearing a sorta minty green armour iirc( can't remember wether his armour was black in any of the HH books and i've not read all of them) i'm pretty sure the armour of the Sons of horus wasn't painted black until a long time after the HH


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

No Horus had his Black Terminator armour toward the beggining of Galaxy in Flames. The picture seems alright to me. He's already got the chaos powers inside him so its expected he looks more fierce.


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## WarMaster Sindr (Jun 23, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> I still find lack of peripheral vision for any soldier a massive issue. Sure the armour looks cool but its still ridicolous to have no peripheral vision. Trust me on a battlefield its absoloutely essential


Okay yeah but as Darkreaver said hes a primarch he isnt ordinary soilder and dont FORGET Terminator armor or AKA real name is Tactical Dreadnought Armor its meant for troops in the field but proved to bulky and made them sluggish but proved its worth tha its made them really really hard to kill and in space ships/hulks because tight corriders a flamethrower your screwed and on top Horus had battlefield experiance of that of a thousand warriors he knows what hes's doing


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## Tzeen Qhayshek (May 4, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> I still find lack of peripheral vision for any soldier a massive issue. Sure the armour looks cool but its still ridicolous to have no peripheral vision. Trust me on a battlefield its absoloutely essential


Maybe if you were an ordinary guardsman, then sure. But being a Primarch that is also a potent psyker like Horus was - his sixth sense makes up for the rest of that.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Meh, i know what everyone means. But i just just imagine Primarchs as wanting to have a full uncomprimising view of their surroundings without having to rely on sensors no matter how advanced. Hence why none of the other Primarchs of the Emperor himself use Terminator armour. They all wear armour far beyond that of any other soldier, yet none of others wear armour that blocks their view


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

exactamundo...


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## dewn_moutain (Aug 7, 2010)

actually, if you look at the picture that was done for the "fulgrim" book, youll see Fulgrim slashing away at, ummmm, hmmmm, you know (pause for research) AH! Ferrus Manus.
Ferrus himself is wearing some armor, but on his back is some strange barrel like thing/backpack and at the front of his face is a strange chin shield. Ferrus cant look behind him, heck, cant even look down with easy. total blind spot, but, up until he got owned by Fulgrim, it was never a problem. 

{Credit due: goes to http://itkovian.blogspot.com/ since i pulled the pic from their website. apparently i cannot make the machine gods happy by following simple instructions and posting the website address and making it attach and sum such things. Fickle machine god!)


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

Did Ferrus really go into battle with an adjustable wrench ?

WTF...

Methinks the artists need to lay off the whatever it is they are smoking and realise these are all men who have had centuries of up close brutal combat and would be arrayed in a way that is less ostentatious and more combat functional.

Unless like Guilliman, they led from the back..(yeah, I don't like you poppa smurf)

They don't look like Primarchs. they look like two guys doing interpretive dance to an opera about combat between a chef and a plumber


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

nestersan said:


> Did Ferrus really go into battle with an adjustable wrench ?
> 
> WTF...
> 
> ...


Well I'm not sure about the look of Fulgrim's Sword but Ferrus Manus used a Hammer in his battle against the Emperor's Children Primarch not a giant wrench.

Guilliman probably did, technically, lead from the back quite often- when your Legion is that large it's difficult to always be at the vanguard :biggrin:


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

nestersan said:


> Methinks the artists need to lay off the whatever it is they are smoking and realise these are all men who have had centuries of up close brutal combat and would be arrayed in a way that is less ostentatious and more combat functional.


Well keep in mind that unlike marines and normal men and women, primarchs were essentially walking gods. Whatever they wore and used was combat functional and effective. (Some primarchs waded into combat and got out with barely a scratch, while others felt honoured by their wounds. Combat effective can really mean little to people like that; for them as long as it works they are good to go.)

For all we know, that backpack thing you see there could actually be some sort of weapon that allowed Ferrus to attack at range while leaving his hands free.


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

Angel of Blood said:


> Meh, i know what everyone means. But i just just imagine Primarchs as wanting to have a full uncomprimising view of their surroundings without having to rely on sensors no matter how advanced. Hence why none of the other Primarchs of the Emperor himself use Terminator armour. They all wear armour far beyond that of any other soldier, yet none of others wear armour that blocks their view


well actually perturabo primarch of the iron warriors also wore terminator armour,


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

But that backbacks pretty irrelevant unless Ferrus is suddenly an Owl. Not sure even Primarchs can do a good old 180 with their next, so backback not an issue. And round his necks a gorget to protect is neck, for all the good it did him, doesnt really block his vision at all.

Where does it say Pertuabo wears terminator armour?


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Perturabo
well it doesnt actually say he does, but the artwork does


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## zas240 (Apr 3, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Well I'm not sure about the look of Fulgrim's Sword but Ferrus Manus used a Hammer in his battle against the Emperor's Children Primarch not a giant wrench.:


Er...correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Manus go into battle with Fireblade (the sword he forged in the contest against Fulgirm under mount Naydara (spelling?)) and he duelled with fulgrim using the sword taken from Laeran? sorry would check but ive loaned my copy of Fulgrim to a friend.

Also I don't think that horus' armour lacking peripheral vision is a big problem, he's watched over by the powers of chaos and is a primarch for heavens sake


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Fulgrim forged the hammer and ferus forged the blade, yes, but once they had seen what the other had forged they both had nerdgasms and traded. Fulgrim later replaced Fireblade with the Lawhatsits blade and yadayadayada the sword goes sentient, saves fulgrim.... And lops ferus's head off. I believe.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

zas240 said:


> Er...correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Manus go into battle with Fireblade (the sword he forged in the contest against Fulgirm under mount Naydara (spelling?)) and he duelled with fulgrim using the sword taken from Laeran? sorry would check but ive loaned my copy of Fulgrim to a friend.


You are correct I thought my original comment was inaccurate but was too tired to bother checking my copy of Fulgrim- just checked and the hammer is present for a while, used by Fulgrim until Ferrus wounds the EC Primarch badly enough that he drops Forgebreaker.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Wait... Fulgrim used a hammer? No, he used fireblade; manus used forgebreaker. Furlgim didn't even use fireblade in the battle.

Last bit of that might be wrong but I know fulgrim didn't use forgebreaker.


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

i think hes on about the fight between them on the ship before the massacre, could be wrong tho


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yeah... That would make more sense. Been so long since I read it I had forgotten that fight. Sorry about that, baron.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

gen.ahab said:


> Wait... Fulgrim used a hammer? No, he used fireblade; manus used forgebreaker. Furlgim didn't even use fireblade in the battle.
> 
> Last bit of that might be wrong but I know fulgrim didn't use forgebreaker.


I suggest you pick up and read _Fulgrim_ then, I think you'll enjoy it- especially the part where on 2 separate occasions Fulgrim uses Forgebreaker.

1) On Ferrus' ship after having used Fireblade, which Ferrus takes from him.

2) On Istvvan V- seriously you're wrong, Fulgrim uses Forgebreaker whilst Ferrus uses Fireblade


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

So what, did he steal it from ferrus? When they had their forge off they switched weapons. Manus used forgebreaker. Although it has been some time since I read the book. Perhaps I could have got them mixed up. Oh wait.... Nvm. I forgot ferrus broke fireblade and fulgrim DID take forgebreaker. Ah now I remember... Silly me.


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

So again, there is no Giant Adjustable Wrench, and no pink tights.... I wish the artists would get up to scratch on the book/model/codex descriptions and not let "Artistic license" give us so much concern.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

Guys GW has never given chaos any form of artificer armor so this dosent surprise me that he is in terminator armor. now on to the vision issue im sure horus doesnt need to be able to see behind him because his senses are probablly crazy and he can feel the presense of the enemy. besides i honestly think that terminator looks bad ass not to menchin having terminator armor alows deepstriking so that could be something horus chose to sacrifice the vision for. besides im sure terminator armor has some sort of bonus like the fact that your head cant be cut off because their is no serperation of armor around the neck. look at marine armor standard has very limited head protection anything with enough force could snap the marines necks like twigs not to menchin that all it would take is a swoop of a sword swing and your head goes falling off. dont believe me look at the iron hands primarch didnt wear terminator armor guess what happend to him, if you guessed head got cut off you are right. so that is my oppinion have your own. also i would like to note it just looks bad ass


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Well the Iron Hands elite ten personel guard to the Primarch all wore Terminator armour, Can you guess what happened to them? if you guessed they did a little song and dance, your wrong ^^

Plus you can deepstrike without Terminator armour on. Horus himself did so in Horus Rising, Dorn and his retuine in Flight of the Eisenstein, And Alpharius and co in Legion. And i get the whole armour having sensors everywhere etc etc, but does no one else really think of Primarchs as the exact kind of beings who would want to not have to be relying completely on sensors at their vulnerable points, and wouldnt want to personally be able to see whats going on. Sensors can be easily clouded after all


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> Well the Iron Hands elite ten personel guard to the Primarch all wore Terminator armour, Can you guess what happened to them? if you guessed they did a little song and dance, your wrong ^^
> 
> Plus you can deepstrike without Terminator armour on. Horus himself did so in Horus Rising, Dorn and his retuine in Flight of the Eisenstein, And Alpharius and co in Legion. And i get the whole armour having sensors everywhere etc etc, but does no one else really think of Primarchs as the exact kind of beings who would want to not have to be relying completely on sensors at their vulnerable points, and wouldnt want to personally be able to see whats going on. Sensors can be easily clouded after all


maybe but still gw doesnt give a form of artificer armor to chaos. maybe i should have read more on the iron hand guy i just remember seeing a pic of his body on the ground and some dude with his head.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Oh he definetly got decapitated sure. But he was completely broken by this point and already beaten


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

actually been in terminator armour wouldn't really effect the peripheral vision of the wearer as a humans peripheral vision is only 180 degrees so something like this "D" so been in terminator armour wouldnt stop that.
also normal space marines with there enhanced senses can sense an enemy behind them, so if a normal marine can do that imagine how much better a primarch would be.
also been primarchs there armour is vastly superior to regular power and terminator armour


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Well apparently its just me then.

And i've been saying peripheral, supose what i should be saying is jut turning your head. If you want to look left, you turn your head, in Terminator armour, you turn your entire body, and still a little bit of peripheral would be cut off. Dont expect anyone to do it but imagine putting a cardboard box over yourself like you might have done as a kid, then cut a square out of the front for your face, now imagine having to spend all day, or weeks even having to turn your entire body everytime you wanted to look at whats happening over to you left or right, or to even simply speak to someone standing next to you.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

Or wear an iron halo with the screws that mount to your skull ... broken neck lots of fun.


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

Its going to be pretty much like that for dude in power armour they wont be able to see behind themselves much either, you think with the helmets visors been the way they are and the large power pack.
So i doubt termie armours visual performance is much less then power armour and when you have a primarch in termie armour i can imagine them been nigh unstoppable, they're nigh unstoppable in power armour let alone termie, plus termie seems far more intimidating


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

yanlou said:


> Its going to be pretty much like that for dude in power armour they wont be able to see behind themselves much either, you think with the helmets visors been the way they are and the large power pack.
> So i doubt termie armours visual performance is much less then power armour and when you have a primarch in termie armour i can imagine them been nigh unstoppable, they're nigh unstoppable in power armour let alone termie, plus termie seems far more intimidating


Which might be why so many marines fight with the helmets off.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

the visor of the power armour helmet is irrelevant they can still turn their heads to look around, something that is totally impossible to do wearing terminator armour, if your turn your head you simply stare at the inside of your armour, turn your head in power armour and you look over your shoulder. And i sincerly doubt that Primarchs armour is even comparable to Power armour, Jonsons armour was made by the Emperor himself, you can gurantee its better than terminator armour. And again if Terminator armour is the be all end all of armours, why wouldnt the Emperor and all the other Primarchs use it


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

exactly, some of the marines in the books iv read have taken their helmet of for exactly that reason

the visors arent irrelevent, they will still restrict peripheral vison somewhat. its like in 300 towards the end where the main dude(always forget hes name) takes of his helmet because it narrows his vision even tho he can perfectly see out of it and can turn his head, its the same kind of thing
and iv already mentioned that each primarchs armour would be vastly superior to reqular power armour


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Angel of Blood said:


> the visor of the power armour helmet is irrelevant they can still turn their heads to look around, something that is totally impossible to do wearing terminator armour, if your turn your head you simply stare at the inside of your armour, turn your head in power armour and you look over your shoulder. And i sincerly doubt that Primarchs armour is even comparable to Power armour, Jonsons armour was made by the Emperor himself, you can gurantee its better than terminator armour. And again if Terminator armour is the be all end all of armours, why wouldnt the Emperor and all the other Primarchs use it


Maybe because it doesn't suit their fighting style- I agree that any armour made by the Emperor would be better than it's more mundane equivalent but I don't think Power Armour created by the Emperor would provide more protection than Terminator Armour, why would it?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Ok irrelevant was a bit much. And sure it probably does mess your peripheral up, point is you can still look left and right with a regular helmet on.

And i dunno, your probably right, originally my point was just the vision issue thing. I get that they all have this 6th sense and armour sensors, but ther still quite alot that goes on that this 6th sense and sensors wouldnt feasibly be able to pick up, and again i just always though Primarchs especially ones like Horus would personally want to know whats happening around them at all times without having to rely on sensors. But thats just my opinion, im not saying evryone else is wrong or even that im right, its just what i think.

End of the day aswell i think they put Horus in terminator armour purely for the look of it


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