# Versus... Deathstars



## squeek

Hi all,

Continuing with the Fantasy Versus... series, next on the list is Deathstars (suggested by xaiff101). If you want to add your suggestions as to who Fantasy Versus should deal with next, go here for the general thread.

This topic was touched upon a few months ago, not much came of that thread but here is a definition for the uninitiated:

_Deathstar - A near invincible unit that is supported by multiple characters giving it bonuses such as ward saves, useful psychology rules, regeneration, etc. The Deathstar unit is often a very large points investment, often more than 50% of the army total cost. The aim of the army is a mixture of Victory Points denial and a steamroller approach with the Deathstar supported by a few other small units._​
So, Deathstars, how do you combat these players that bring a mega unit of massed hard models with powerful characters to the table? The rest of the army is normally almost no-existent, but even if you destroy them you can still lose on VPs due to the mass of points in the Deathstar.

A good example to give you an idea of the style of army, is the WE 70 Eternal Guard army that has featured at a few tournaments in the past. The unit is joined by a handful of characters and often ends up with a 5+ ward save, causes fear, re-rollable Ld 9, stubborn, MR1, ignores terrain and extra attacks. Wood Elves are a particularly good army for this tactic as they have a good range of supporting units such as Glade Guard and Wild Riders.

However the king of Deathstars is probably the Dwarf Longbeard block with a lord, two thanes and a runesmith. Other than being immune to panic and having reasonable base AS, S and T, the characters add a few pluses to the unit, being Dwarfs you can take pretty much any set-up you like too. The lord would normally bring MR of Kingship and shieldbearers plus any other rune you fancy, Might or Resistance being possibles. The thanes would normally be used as a challenge taker and a BSB. So one would have the MR of Spite, Rune of Resistance and Stone. The BSB just needs a bunch of runes to make him tough to kill. Finally the runesmith takes a couple of Runes of Warding and a Rune of Spellbreaking. So the unit ends up with stubborn Ld 10, immune to fear and terror, MR(2), a dispel scroll, re-rolled break tests and a challenge monkey to protect your characters.

So how do you plan to combat them? Do you have a preferred unit or tactic that works every time? Do you try to shoot them to bits with massed guns or magic, or perhaps you prefer to play them at their own game and mob them with cheap, disposable infantry trying to bag as many quarters and support units as possible?


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## neilbatte

with units like this its normally best to either avoid it until you are ready to take it on on your terms or concentrate every scrap of fire power you have to weaken it enough to make it safe to charge with a unit or 2. 
The main thing to remember is that any large unit is difficult to maneuvre and a sitting target for mortars and cannons etc and to make it worthwhile to take it needs to kill a lot of stuff.
and just to get the ninja in organguns (sorry dafist of mork i couldn't resist).


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## Dafistofmork

ah, but organ guns alone wont help you here!
you need to blast them with all your warmachines (in my army that is 1 runic BT, 1 runic cannon and 1 organ gun) then mob whats left with hammerers and lord combo to the front, longberads and BSB to the flank and Ironbreakers with oathstone to hold up the support unit/s.

or jump ship, buy a chaos army and get archon.


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## Vaz

Use your own =)


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## thomas2

Don't mistake it for a moon?

Being serious the fairly obvious option of avoid it if it's slow and doesn't have any significant fire power, and tear through the rest of their army. Of course unless you have a manoeuvrable army and the Deathstar is unable to do something that leaves you unable to ignore it, like sit on an important objective, this won't really work.


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## Tim/Steve

Ah the joy of joys... just outmanouver it. Shove cheap blocker units in front of the deathstar at angles to push them out of the way- flee when you get charged... doesnt matter if they catch you or not- all your doing is pushing them away from your army. 2 or 3 well placed units against a dawrf deathstar can push them out of your way for the game.. if each one happens to be a 40pt gnoblar unit then all to the good (even 150pt ogre units are awsome, especially since any flee move should clear the stunties charge range).
- an immobile block of horendously hard dwarves isnt scary, they wont ctach you and you should never charge without knowing you'll catch the dwarves in the flank/rear. Other quicker races are harder to avoid but still not too bad.

Meanwhile you can kill the other half of the army without too much trouble: since you should be at a 2-1 points advantage it shouldnt be too hard. You'll not get that many VPs but wiping out 1/2 the enemy and claiming 3 table quarters should easily be enough to see you through.


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## NagashKhemmler

I do the following which often sees them away...

Charge the rear of the unit with something of my own which is tough, because of the points sink that is the death star, this is often quite easy, you can then set about slaughtering the rank and file troopers. As long as you keep winning the combat (shouldn't be too hard with your lord against their rank and file) they're stuck facing the wrong way getting chewed apart, by the time you're facing their actual characters you've eaten half their unit. They can't challenge you with characters unless they're actually in combat, so they have expensive characters stuck there staring into space.

When I fought such a build previously, I just hammered it with SSC at 4 shots a turn and 64 bow shots it didn't last long. Another time I did the above and managed to kill the unit that way. Dwarf deathstars are easier than most, due to their low speed, just avoid them, they're too slow to fight unless you want to fight them.


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## Ascendant Valor

Denying Static Combat Resolution should work for most DeathStars. A good Flank or Rear charge, along with enough support, should do in the Death Star in due time. Another consideration, as has been said already, is the Characters. The DeathStar is likely to contain some nasty surprises, so be prepared. You will want to have some tough units lined up, that's for sure.

Other DeathStars, like the ShadeStar, will be trickier. These are the DeathStars that are very capable fighting units and are both maneuverable and hard to hit. All I can say is to hit it hard and fast with everything you have. I doubt that's a good idea, but that's all I can think of without some good experience.

My ideal DeathStar:

-Korhil
-Caradryan
-BSB with Battle Banner
-Boat Load of Phoenix Guard with full command
-Mage with Amulet of Light

Which will give:
-Stubborn Ld 9
-Fear Immunity
-ASF, S4 magical attacks
-Multiple ranks (+3 SCR), Outnumber (+1 SCR), Banner (+1 SCR), BSB (+1 + D6 SCR)
-4+ Ward typical
-some other things I can't think of right now...

The only way I can see it going down is to hack down the Characters. They give the best bonuses to the unit; without them the unit is just one large point sink. Their buffs keep the DeathStar afloat. Though not easy, it will tear the unit apart.


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## Tim/Steve

NagashKhemmler said:


> Charge the rear of the unit with something of my own which is tough, because of the points sink that is the death star, this is often quite easy, you can then set about slaughtering the rank and file troopers. As long as you keep winning the combat (shouldn't be too hard with your lord against their rank and file) they're stuck facing the wrong way getting chewed apart, by the time you're facing their actual characters you've eaten half their unit. They can't challenge you with characters unless they're actually in combat, so they have expensive characters stuck there staring into space.


Characters can move about inside a unit even if the unit loses combat... it sux but stops you from just eating away at the back of the unit laughing at them. Charging the rear still gives you a chance of beating the unit (though chances that they run is tiny as re-rollable stubborn Ld9-10: 2.7% and 0.7% respectively  )


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH

Template weapons! Especially against the evil elves' shadestar. Because, if made correctly it is immune to psychology, very magic resistant, ASF with GW and shooters should get used to only hit them on 6+ or worse :shok:
Stone thowers, dragons or their likes will cut the squishy elves down to a chargeable size.


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## TheKingElessar

Force them to always pursue (Frenzy, right?) then hit the flanks with Fast Cav and skirmisher units to pull them off to the flanks of the board, away from the bulk of your army. If they don't have magical attacks, hit them with a tarpit like a Banshee, or a HE Archmage with the cloak that makes him immune to non-magical attacks. If they're off the table when the game ends, due to a pursue move, do they count as destroyed?


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## Dafistofmork

they are not always frenzied.
and often they have magical attacks (or a character with MA).


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## TheKingElessar

Yes, but there are various ways to confer Frenzy upon them during the game...


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## Ascendant Valor

Don't forget other methods of drawing the Deathstar around, too. Hatred makes all enemies pursue a unit that breaks from combat with it; I could imagine a trashy unit could easily lead the Deathstar into open ground in this case.

Also, it's easy for some races to pull them around, as TheKingElessar is saying. The Warriors of Chaos have access to a spell that grants Frenzy (while dealing some light damage), so that helps. Not to mention a spell that makes the whole unit move toward any point the WoC player wishes... Ugh, WoC can be absurd at times.

Empire Hochland Long Rifles are capable of peeling away those annoying powerhouse characters, too. Outriders can offer a disgusting barrage of firepower if possible. War Machinery would help.

High Elves have Sword Masters. Send them in with Shield of Saphery for better survivability and a unit of Dragon Princes or Phoenix Guard with a BSB and the Battle Banner in there and you should do well. A seven elf front of Sword Masters and five or six Dragon Princes with a BSB noble should do some considerable damage barring Ward or Regen saves. The Battle Banner can occupy some or most of the difference. Casualties will be severe. Very, very severe. White Lions can take the hits, though, as can a Mage offering Courage of Aenarion. If the unit causes Fear, then Banner of the World Dragon may be more effective in the long haul.


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## Someguy

Mine is as follows:

Vampire lord. +1 magic level, Master of the Black Arts, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Black Periapt, Nightshroud, Blood Drinker, Dispel Scroll. 450

Wight King battle standard bearer. The Drakehof Banner. 225

28 Grave Guard. Full command, Banner of the Barrows. 411

The unit is dirt cheap under 1100 points good. It is supported by another couple of vamp casters in skelly or ghoul units, who can join the main event if they like. It's difficult to flank charge, what with all the zombies popping up around the place, and doesn't really care very much if you do. It grows back very quickly with blood drinker, regenerate and magic. VDM makes it move fairly fast, though there'd be an argument for doing it all in black knights instead.

I'm actually quite interested to hear how to take this unit down, before I make it.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

My Deathstar is 23 longbeards, great weapons shields, full command, 3 runes of sanctuary,
leb by my BSB, with rune of stoicism, master rune of fear, rune of battle, and my dwarf lord. 
In addition to be hard as nails because their dwarfs, this unit has mr 3 causes fear, and are unit str 50. With +7 to res not counting outnumber.


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## Tim/Steve

Someguy said:


> Mine is as follows:
> 
> Vampire lord. +1 magic level, Master of the Black Arts, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Black Periapt, Nightshroud, Blood Drinker, Dispel Scroll. 450
> 
> Wight King battle standard bearer. The Drakehof Banner. 225
> 
> 28 Grave Guard. Full command, Banner of the Barrows. 411
> 
> The unit is dirt cheap under 1100 points good. It is supported by another couple of vamp casters in skelly or ghoul units, who can join the main event if they like. It's difficult to flank charge, what with all the zombies popping up around the place, and doesn't really care very much if you do. It grows back very quickly with blood drinker, regenerate and magic. VDM makes it move fairly fast, though there'd be an argument for doing it all in black knights instead.
> 
> I'm actually quite interested to hear how to take this unit down, before I make it.


Its a pretty easy one to counter- simply attack the vamp. Kill it in 1 go and its only defense mechanism (blood drinker) wont have the chance to work... 
WS7 T5 W3 really isnt that hard... any decent combat character should shread you (and be a lot cheaper)- so long as the other player doesnt challenge you cant hide your vampire and he can direct attacks against it (as long as he is in base contact)


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## Concrete Hero

Use an X-wing Fighter! You don't need to aim, just use the F-...

I'm _so_ sorry...


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## Someguy

Tim/Steve said:


> Its a pretty easy one to counter- simply attack the vamp. Kill it in 1 go and its only defense mechanism (blood drinker) wont have the chance to work...
> WS7 T5 W3 really isnt that hard... any decent combat character should shread you (and be a lot cheaper)- so long as the other player doesnt challenge you cant hide your vampire and he can direct attacks against it (as long as he is in base contact)


Actually I don't know if that's true.

Firstly, I'll issue a challenge. Ok, it probably gets taken by your unit champ.

Second, the armour on the vamp means that anyone attacking it loses charging bonusses, loses ASF and hits at I1. So no lance, no impact hits and it (and indeed the whole unit) goes before you if you want to hit the vamp. To attack the vamp you have to survive the vamp's attacks, plus those of the GGs - who have killing blow.

Third, the vamp regenerates thanks to the guy waving the fancy flag about. So it gets back up, then heals itself with its sword and maybe some magic.

Regenerate is very harsh on this unit, because it makes it very difficult to win combat against them. If you lose, you may well be outnumbered by fear causers, and probably run off.

To be honest though, I don't really like this style of play. The unit can be beaten and it can lose regen if it's hit by fire, which daemons can do a lot. I think I'd sooner make a "proper" army.


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## Tim/Steve

The vamp isnt strong enough to win against a pimped challenge character. An ogre would love you to challenge with either the vamp or even better the unit champ (I cause fear and can regen too). A normal challenge character would be somewhat more scared since killing blow might actually work on them (though kinda doubt it)- if you do get into a challenge 4 5S attacks just arent enough to scare many people who would choose to charge alone (certainly not 4-5W ogre characters)

TBH though mostly this unit doesnt scare me like the dwarf/elf equivalents purely because GG are almost useless against Ogres- if I got a 200pt Irongut unit into your flank it might not beat you but it certainly wouldnt lose any time soon (especially if I have regen on my unit too)... though to be really comic I could just throw a 80pt gorger into your unit and laugh- unbreakable and killing blow are a nasty combo.

Other armies would fear you more... though I expect having 1 avoidable 1000 point unit is far better then 3-4 nasty small units, espcially if that army happened to have artillery in it (oooh just thought what 3-4 gnoblar scraplaunchers could do to any deathstar, S3 large blast with killing blow... ouch)


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## Someguy

I think you highlight the problem with deathstar play, in that generally they have some kind of situation in which they are weak. I don't think it's really very sensible to play rock paper scissors with army selection and I prefer to go for something where the outcome is determined by gameplay rather than tricks.


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## Tim/Steve

Well if your army can then you should (ogres pretty much have to charge or they die... ASF, fast cav, move magic all screw us)... 

As for deathstars- yes they are immense and some will crush pretty much anything they come up against but they are often vulnerable to artillery, flank charges and to being ignored.
If they were more popular them they are I would be tempted to switch over to wood elves so I could just danse around them and laugh or go VC and just raise a handful of zombies in front of it angled to avoid overrun charges.


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## 123birds

this is my double death star
Vamp
-some powers
-drakenhof banner
19xGrave Guard
-full cmd cept music
-banner of barrows
-corpse cart hanging out behind it
then have something like this
Lord
-dreadlance
-wristbands of black gold
-dragon or the flying horse or abbyssal terror
-avatar of death
-dark acolyte
-redfuy

If you ignore the dragon your screwed, if you you aim for the dragon you have a huge grave guard death star hitting you. I also have an awsome magic phase. I cant think of a way anyone could beat this. You guys have any ideas


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## Tim/Steve

There is nothing like a unstoppable army... the more you build to beat 1 army type another will simply walk over you all the more easily.

Well gunlines would laugh at you- the 3+ ward save vs shooting on the lord is great and will help keep him alive... unfortunately it wont help the steed if you take a dragon or abyssal terror. Killing the steed is likely to leave the lord alone and a fair distance from alies (since the steed is a large target you cant even try to hide behind other units, even if there isnt a hill for the other side to set up on).

Your graveguard deathstar also relies on SCR (+5) and killing blow- only having 5 attacks from graveguard plus the vampire really isnt gonna beat too much. Any enemy unit that pumps out enough attacks will not be too worried about you (even with regen), those enemies that are immune to killing blow will really not be scared (any ogre unit would tie you up almost indefinately even if it didnt win or if it didnt have any buff magic- regen or +1T).

Ofc there's the age old way to beat deathstars; use a bigger stick... um *cough* deathstar- a rival unit with 2 combat charcaters, a BSB warbanner and full command would likely crush you (my mind goes back to that evil dwarf unit on page 1- dwarves are pretty much perfect for deathstars); if they get you in the flank it could well be all over in a couple of turns (would be over in 1 if you could break).


If I was making an Ogre Deathstar it would look something like this:
Tyrant- Thundermace, daemon-killer scars, wallcrusher, 2 sword gnoblars
Bruiser- Tenderiser, 2 sword gnoblars
Bruiser- 2*gnoblar thiefstones, ironfist, greedy fist, 2 sword gnoblars
Bruiser- BSB, warbanner, greatweapon, 2 sword gnoblars
21 Bulls- champion, bellower, standard (rune maw)
(followed by a big unit of gnoblars)

That gives me a unit that costs about 1700pts , causes terror, MR2, can bounce any spell at all onto the gnolars on a 2+, has 6SCR, 5 S5 & 1 S4 impact hits, has 8S7(4 cause D3 wounds) 5S5 4S4(AP) and 8S2 attacks and 1 weapon that hits as a S4(8) stonethrower (D6 wounds) and has a unit strength of 75 (outnumbered by fear causing enemy is nice)... oh and I move 12" a turn
-it should cause about 13W on T4 3+AS enemies if I charge (if I dont get any multi-wound hits)


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## TheKingElessar

That's mighty impressive...:shok:


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## Tim/Steve

It'll crush some enemies but most armies will just laugh at it- if you have a great cannon then you're really laughing.
Shooting/magic (if you can get over the defences) will smash it, flank charges are nasty and its so damn big that it cant really wheel (a 90deg wheel would take a full march)... I think I would prefer to split it up and have 6-7 strong bull/irongut units with 4 strong combat characters about (gotta say I love the walking wall of ogres approach).


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## Ascendant Valor

Yeah, Teclis or Kroak would likely destroy just about any Death Star with contemptible ease (with Irresistible Force, of course). With the right spell from the right Lore, that could mean absolute doom for the Death Star. Spells that hit every single model are especially gruesome. I can only imagine Spirit of the Forge on a knight or heavy infantry DeathStar... Pit of Shades against a low-Initiative 'Star... Flames of the Phoenix, Black Horror are both also just as nasty.

No magic, no problem! Artillery will do the trick any day of the week. Even if the unit has a Ward Save of some sort, some shots will go through. War Machines are a great way to whittle the 'Star down to something manageable in most cases. Even the VC DeathStars are worthless if the Vamps miss a Look Out, Sir! roll. With enough Cannons raining down, that should become a strong likelihood very shortly.


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## cain the betrayer

with lore of tzeentch from the WOC army
treason of tzeentch or infernal gatway


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## bobss

One deathstar I plan to field which I feel is medium in the scheme of things is a Plaguebearer one:

15 Plaguebearers - Icon of eternal Virtulence ( spelling? sorry havent had DoC `dex long )
Herald on palanquin with slime trail and noxious vapours, BSB with banner of sundering

and then some tzeentch heralds + Kairos to prevent it getting magic`d to death

basically the unit has regeneration, a high toughness, plenty of wounds, cannot be flank charged with bonuses, also noixous vapours and banner of unholy victory helps towards combat resolution so dying to instability is unlikely.... and hits pretty hard with poisened attacks:so_happy:

.. at the same time this would be fielded with the usual bloodletters, daemonettes, jugers and beasts to protect flanks and... generally... kill stuff


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## Tim/Steve

I've faced that one many many times (often with nastier BSB banners) and have found it actually pretty easy to deal with- its relatively slow so I just charge straight past it (occasionally leaving a unit of mine with stubborn cast on it 1" in front to tie it up for a bunch of turns)- the daemon player normally spent so much on this unit that the rest of the army falls pretty easily (he normally has a small bloodletter unit, a small pink horror unit, flamers, screamers and a few nasty HQ options). After that getting multiple units intot his unit with a mix of regen and stubborn magic buffs means that I can lose every round of combat while never letting all my units break from combat... it takes a couple of rounds of hard fighting to kill the herald, after which the unit just disintegrates.

Its a very hard nut to crack but slow speed means it can just be ignored for long periods of time... I havent faced it with my high elves yet but I would love to- march blocking the hell out of it with eagles/cavalry and then either ignore it for the next 4-5 turns or blast it with lore of fire/flames of the phoenix...


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## Durzod

The only deathstar unit I've ever enjoyed playing wasn't really a classic deathstar. But it was fun. Imagine facing this unit across the field:
Mounted Chaos Lord
Mounted Battle Standard
28 chaos hounds.
Moves 7", +3 rank bonus, BSB, US 60, but oh those flanks. 
Actually the fluff for the army combined with using a LOTR model for my halfling Chaos Lord (hey, they gave her a Chaos pony and she went out and had it bronzed) was what made it so much fun. That and the look on my opponents' faces when I broke out the movement tray.
Seriously, deathstars usually only win a few games. Most often they don't come to grips with anything that makes their points worthwhile. Avoid them until you're pretty sure you can beat them and take what points you can from the rest of the army. Fight with your head, not your dice.


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## Orochi

Forgive my ignorance. 
But
What would be considered a:
-Lizardman deathstar (I assume temple guard with flanking carnosaurs...that or slann posse?)
-High elf deathstar (I assume swordmasters back by lion chariots...that or a mage brigade?)
-Empire Deathstar (something to do with 2 or so steam tanks?)

as none of the armies appear to have 'super' units.


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## Vaz

Lizardmen Deathstar:

Slann, Higher State of Conciousness, Unfathomable Presence, Focused Rumination, Focus of Mystery, BSB, Sun Standard of Chotec, Cupped Hands of the Old Ones, War Drum of Xahutec
Chakax
Dual L2 Priests on Engines of the Gods, 1 with Blood Statuette of Spite, Bane Head, the other with Diadem of Power and Dispel Scroll
19 Temple Guard, Full Command, Totem of Prophecy, Burning Blade of Chotec

Place the Champion of the Temple Guard next to the Chakax. That way 9 times out of 10, he'll survive, to use his 3 S4 Attacks with -3 to armour saves, Chakax takes challenges, causing Always Strike Last, while his 4 S7 Attacks demolish them. Give your Slann Lore of Life, and deploy on a hill. D6 S6 Hits on targets in close combat, combined with the D6 S4 from the AoE granted by the Dual Engines. The Lore of Life can insta-heal Chakax, himself, or any of the Priests/Stegadons.

Rainlord and Howler Wind is a major counter to basic shooting, while Mistress of the Marsh can give you the charge, or allow you to catch fleeing enemies. You cause Fear, MR3, reroll failed "Look out sir", and knowledge of all enemies hidden models (Assassins, Fanatics etc). Outnumber (24 models, most likely), 2 Banners, 3 Ranks. The DPS output is horrendous as well.

When casting spells, the Slann has an additional Free Dice to cast spells with, and is immune to non magic attacks (no cannon snipe, haha, fack off Empire), and knows every spell in the Lore of Life.


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## Masked Jackal

Orochi said:


> -High elf deathstar (I assume swordmasters back by lion chariots...that or a mage brigade?)


Phoenix Guard were mentioned before. With their 4+ ward save and characters to add killy, they can be pretty scary. My friend runs them with a BSB (d6 extra combat res banner), and I usually just avoid it or shoot at it. Something I don't like because I want to kill you in close combat with my Dark Elves.


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## Tim/Steve

White Lions would be in my HE deathstar if I ever wanted to do one, something like:

Prince- blade of leaping gold, lore master's cloak, dragon armour
Caradryan- MR3, causes fear, D6 wounds to anyone who kills him (challenge monkey)
BSB noble- battle banner, dragon armour, shield, great weapon
Mage/Noble- sacred incense,
20 White Lions- banner, musician, standard of balance/warbanner.

MR3, 2+ save vs magic wounds, awesome challenge monkey (who is even better if he loses) 5+D6 SCR, ASF, stubborn Ld10, causes fear, -1 to hit with shooting, ItP once in B2B and negates frenzy/hatred and as a bonus has models that are immune to fire attacks (in case they get charged by a burning bloodthirster or similar.
Runs to about 1140pts and would include all your heros/lords for a 2k game... veyr hard to take out unless you have blast weaponry or cannons. Would almost certainly be able to live with almost any deathstar out there... but it isnt cheap enough to have an army with it, and isnt expensive enough to require killing if the enemy wants to win the game.


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## the-graven

What i would do with deathstars is annoy them, i place my skink skirmishers close and shoot, march block with terrie's , freaking annoy him, kill the rest of his army then multi-charge in flank and rear and beat him with SCR if I don't beat that stupid unit, wich will probably happen with 3 vs 1 units, I'll kill myself


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## effigy22

Dark Elf Death Star:

Dark Elf Lord
3x Nobles
1x BSB - Always Strike First
1x Guiding Eye
1x MR 3

55 Shades with great weapons

- Defeated with multiple charges of Daemons (flesh hounds, plague bearers, bloodletters, etc etc)

Dwarf Death Star of the one mentioned before, defeated with a single blood thirster to the rear of the unit.

Although death stars seem like a sure winner - they tend to be. Your putting everything you got into 1 unit and lets face it - a couple of decent units flank charging / rear charging while its held up in the centre - your gonna break the unit!


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## Vaz

Eh, they're easy enough to counter if you know how.


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## Stella Cadente

squeek said:


> So, Deathstars, how do you combat these players that bring a mega unit of massed hard models with powerful characters to the table?


pack up, leave and refuse them the satisfaction of being a cock


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## effigy22

Stella Cadente said:


> pack up, leave and refuse them the satisfaction of being a cock


Not really Combatting them... more like turning and running... like an elf!


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