# Primarch battle?



## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Has been a bit of discussion lately about Primarchs, so figured i would continue the theme.

If you put all 20(21) Primarchs in a sealed arena with no escape, and had an all-on-all fight to the death, which Primarch would you put your money on to win, and why?

Assume that it is towards the end of the Heresy, and that all of them are fit and healthy.


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

surely you can't have all 20 in there?! if nothing else we don't know about the missing 2; so 18?

I'd like to think that alpharius/omegon would win as theres 2 of him.

plus he would likely ally with the stronger faction until stealthing him at the finish.

Lorgar dead 1st as he would be on his knees praying for daddy to save him.

Also think magnus would likely be one of last to die due to psychic nuking everyone


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Horus because he was imbued with the power of Chaos. He pummeled Sanguinius and I think the fluff insinuates that only the Emperor was capable of killing him.

Other than that, I'd say Fulgrim (possessed version) as he beheaded Manus and mortally wounded Guilliman (essentially consigning him to stasis for the last 10,000 years).


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Might want to make it pre-heresy because otherwise this is just stupid; Horus was a demigod by the end of the heresy. It would be an insa-win for him.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

man if you put these guys in one room fighting it would prolly destroy the planet.

But I vote the king of cheese cause well he is the king of cheese


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Angron no question about it. 

I'd go with Kurze as second.


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

Angron roars and runs at magnus. Magnus watches him run at him before clicking his fingers. Angron falls into a warp portal. Magnus grins.


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

TheSpore said:


> man if you put these guys in one room fighting it would prolly destroy the planet.
> 
> But I vote the king of cheese cause well he is the king of cheese


Hmmm... you bring up an interesting point. Is he one of the missing primarchs maybe? 


Horus, Dorn, Russ, the Lion, the Khan, Angron, Fulgrim, Manus, etc. ... and the King of Cheese!!!


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

I'm going for one of the missing primarchs. For all we know, they could have been Chuck Norris or something.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

I once heard that the king of cheese made chuck norris cry


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> I'm going for one of the missing primarchs. For all we know, they could have been Chuck Norris or something.


Didn't Russ kill one of them?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

I say Alpherius and Omegron, they are the ninja's of the primarchs. All the primarchs would be dead before they even see either one.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Didn't Russ kill one of them?


Where in the fluff did it state that? It might've mentioned it in _Prospero Burns_ but even so, we've still got the other one to account for.


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

The Lion. He'd do nothing and then stab the winner in the back. Seriously? Magnus or Russ.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Angron.  He was made for this. Plus He would side with Horus before the fight started and both would kill everyone and finally have a 1v1 duel at the end. xD


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## the Autarch (Aug 23, 2009)

demonictalkin56 said:


> Angron roars and runs at magnus. Magnus watches him run at him before clicking his fingers. Angron falls into a warp portal. Magnus grins.


then leman russ comes from behing magnus and pokes him in the eye :biggrin:

personally i voted for the lion, think he's got the mindset and skill for a long brawl specially since he fought russ for like 2 days?


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

2 days?! wow if we televise them all at it...we might actually miss this royal wedding shite! Come on people, we can make this happen!


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yeah, though if Russ could destroy the crimson king in such a short period I doubt the lion was on the buisness end of 100% of what Russ could really dish out.


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## Hammer49 (Feb 12, 2011)

Id have to say Russ, as the space wolves were meant to destroy other legions when needed to, so surely the same would apply to the primarch of that legion Russ.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Rogal Dorn. Without a doubt. 

But as I am a Salamanders fanboy, I could not resist voting for Vulkan. He is just so full of awesome.

But yea, realistically, I would say Dorn.


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## turel2 (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm going Sanguinius. As long as he stays away from horus he will be ok lol


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## Klaivex (Dec 21, 2010)

Sang or Angron would probably be the last one standing at the end... Until invisible Corax snuck up behind them and slit their throat.:victory:

Everyone would be too busy to realise that one of them was missing until it was too late.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Sanguinius hands down, even horus mentioned sanguinius was the greatest of them all.


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## BrainFreeze (Oct 9, 2008)

Alpharius/Omegon set this whole thing up in the first place just to get these guys to kill each other off and finish off the "winner".


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Azkaellon said:


> Sanguinius hands down, even horus mentioned sanguinius was the greatest of them all.


And then he killed him...

Again, Horus FTW! 





If only GW had Stats for all the pre-heresy primarchs. KoC could make an Ultimate Unit Challenge around it. Man that would be fun to watch! opcorn:


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## Hammer49 (Feb 12, 2011)

Azkaellon said:


> Sanguinius hands down, even horus mentioned sanguinius was the greatest of them all.


I dont think that was in reference to actual fighting, but more to do with being pure of spirit.
If I remember correctly didnt one of the other primarchs compare Sanguinius to the emperor, and said Sanguinius was the most similar to the emperor out of the other primarchs. I think it was in HH book, but I cant remember which one.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

In a pre-Heresy free-for-all, 
common sense tells me to go with Magnus, but then Russ did beat Magnus

never really made much sense to me why Magnus engaged Russ at close range but that's what happened. Anyway I think the fight wasn't going too well for Russ until he lashed out wildly and caught Magnus in the eye. According to _A Thousand Sons_, it was a lucky blow, but of course a book called _A Thousand Sons_ may be biased in favour of the Thousand Sons...

Russ got KTFO by the Lion, so that kinda counts against him. Anyway, I don't think Russ could stand up to Angron, so I'd scratch both Russ and Magnus. 
Curze seems to have a ruthless survivor mentality that would help in a free-for-all situation, but I don't think he's in the same league as the top-tier fighters among the primarchs: Sanguinius, Angron, Horus, and Russ (I think Russ is the weakest one out of this bunch. Hey, just my opinion, SW fans chill out ) 

Horus was supposedly very good, but I think Sanguinius was probably better. He was the archangel Michael to Horus's Lucifer. 

I'm going with Sanguinius out of pure bias


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## Maligant (Mar 27, 2011)

I think I might go for Horus Lupercal (rather than Mad Bastard Horus) - he may not be the greatest skilled personal fighter, but I think he probably knew the other primarchs better than any of the other primarchs did, so would have an edge on knowing how they would fight, their strengths and, more importantly, their weaknesses.

Also, if we believe that the nature of the legions reflects that of the Primarchs, the Lunar Wolves believed that winning by any means was better than winning in style or form (as Loken demonstrated against Lucius), so that could go in the favour of the Brightst Star as well.

And as we all know, Knowing is half the battle!

GEE AI HORUUUUUSSSS!


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

Angron hands down, he not only had the skill required to be one of the top melee combatants of the primarchs but the sheer rage and raw power he could bring to a fight with or without a weapon makes me think that even if someone like Horus was imbued with the Big 4's power he would take him down with him.


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

Honestly think sanguinius was the best of the lot 1 on 1 then Russ/Magnus, Angron, Horus, The Khan, the lion?, Corax/Kruze, Fulgrim/Dorn, Vulkan/Ferrus/Perturbo/Motarion, Gulliman, Alpharius/Omegon and lucky last Lorgar the wimp.

Bear in mind this is a gladiator type fight so I think Angron would go a lot better then he would normally could.

Dont know about the unknown primarchs so I cant make a sound judgement.

All the fluff I have read to dates leads to this choice and I was not biased neither. Point to note this is all pre-ascended primarchs.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I think it would be Horus. Without a doubt. The guy was almost a god when the four powers allied themselves with him.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

I find it interesting that Sanguinius has more votes than Horus...... or that Sanguinius has any votes at all....
I was already proved that Horus trumps Sanguinius.
(And that Fulgrim trumps Ferrus and the Stasis Smurf, and Stasis Smurf is "rumoured" to have killed either Alpharius or Omegon)


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm pretty sure this is a hypothetical *pre-Heresy* gladiatorial-style free-for-all

so no Warp-enhanced primarchs (Heresy), certainly no "fueled by all four Chaos Gods" Horus (Heresy), no daemon primarchs (post-Heresy)


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> I'm pretty sure this is a hypothetical *pre-Heresy* gladiatorial-style free-for-all


Nope, KoC decided to let Horus use god-mode for this one.



KingOfCheese said:


> Assume that it is towards the end of the Heresy, and that all of them are fit and healthy.


Yup.

Technically Ferrus shouldn't even be in here since he was dead at the beginning of the Horus Heresy.

This will just run down to which daemon primarch could get luck or, if they don't team up, how long it will take Uber-Horus to kill everyone off.


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Even if it were pre-heresy... which it isn't _(Horus FTW),_ :wink: Loken proved in his fight with Lucius that it doesn't always come down to CC skill. He bested a better swordsman than he by _knowing his opponent,_ *and* by _doing whatever it took to defeat him._ As was mentioned earlier, Loken reflected his Legion's fighting style and the Legion's fighting style reflected its Primarch. 

I still think Horus would come out on top in a pre-heresy free for all. There's a reason after all, that the Emperor chose Horus to be Warmaster and not Dorn or Guilliman, etc.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Ah, well I see he wrote "toward the end of the Heresy"

well, that's not very fair now is it, Horus insta-wins, and even if you take Horus out of the equation, the traitor primarchs have a rather big advantage don't they...they're all Chaos-tainted, which increases their power. They're not full-blown daemon princes yet, but they're Warp-enhanced. For instance, Angron would be in the state depicted in picture 2)

1) pre-Heresy 









2) Heresy 









3) post-Heresy 









in addition to the pointy teeth, I'm pretty sure Angron was even more tougher/stronger/etc. than his pre-Heresy self thanks to siding with Chaos, the same would apply to all the traitor primarchs during the Heresy 

pre-Heresy, I'm going with giant birdboy


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Uber Ork said:


> I still think Horus would come out on top in a pre-heresy free for all. There's a reason after all, that the Emperor chose Horus to be Warmaster and not Dorn or Guilliman, etc.



....... because he was a savvy politician?


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

KingOfCheese said:


> I was already proved that Horus trumps Sanguinius.


It should not be forgotten that Horus just sat on his flagship and watched the battle bellow while Sanguinius alone held the Eternity Gate and broke the back of Ka'Bandha. I believe that he was quite tired, and possibly even wounded after all this fighting, for lets face it, when you have a few crazed legions charging towards you, a few bullets and/or blades are going to do some damage.


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## Epidemius (Nov 15, 2010)

I'm tempted to say one of the missing primarchs or Mortarrion (just cause i like nurgle), but I would have to say Horus because he killed the Emperor (sort of) and was the chosen one.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Pre-heresy - Angron. An arena battle to the death, like a gladiator? That's literally his whole deal.

Otherwise, Uber Horus. That or one of the daemon primarchs after they all teamed up on Horus.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Chompy Bits said:


> Pre-heresy - Angron. *An arena battle to the death, like a gladiator? That's literally his whole deal*.
> 
> Otherwise, Uber Horus. That or one of the daemon primarchs after they all teamed up on Horus.


good point there


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> ....... because he was a savvy politician?


No, because like the Loken example, he was amazing at sizing up his competition and knowing just what to do to defeat them.

For instance, Angron would be a bloodthirsty brawler. Not so much thinking and strategy as brute force, rage, and aggression. Horus would, like Loken, be able to asses Angron's weaknesses and use it against him while Angron, unthinking, would unleash a blood curtailing roar and just charge.

I would liken it to a calm Master IP verses a raging, unthinking, yet very skilled attacker....


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Most primarchs were good in that regard, it came with the territory. Horus got the job because it was the most well rounded primarch and, arguably, the greatest politician of the lot. Didn't help that he also had the emperors ambition.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

These sorts of threads always defy logic in my opinion but it's understandable I suppose given the lack of information intentionally left out by BL/GW on the Primarchs and fanboyism.

But given what we do know and common sense, could it be argued that anyone could pose a genuine threat to Angron who was raised as a gladiator and was without a doubt the most aggressive Primarch of them all? 

Everything about him hints at him being the most physically aggressive of all his brothers and one would imagine that being a champion gladiator, he would be unmatched in close quarters combat and used to being teamed up on.

When he crash landed on a planet, he killed a group of battle-ready Eldar as a *baby/kid*. *in b4 it was Draigo who traveled back in time and forgot Angron was destined to turn traitor and killed them*

I mean really... some people voted for Dorn? Someone who got owned by Kurze and no he did not get jumped because I'm quite sure one does not simply walk up to a Primarch unnoticed.

Mannus? The first Primarch to perish?

Magnus? The biggest/tallest of them all and yet got his back broken by a dwarf? He's a Psyker sure but all the Primarchs are to some extent and I'm quite certain they each have their own ways with dealing with Psykers.

Alpharius? I'm a Alpha Legion fan-boy and even I don't think a Primarch as tactical as Alpharius who probably learned all sorts of tricks from xenos/off-shoots of humanity would stand a chance against Angron.

As I mentioned before, I think Kurze would come as a close second because for all of Angron's agressiveness, Kurze's just a brutal psychopath who could probably shrug off losing a limb or two and dish out some real pain before going down. He's just that insane.

Yeah my 2 c.


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

Kurze upon losing an arm: 'Just a fleshwound' lol


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Most primarchs were good in that regard, it came with the territory. Horus got the job because it was the most well rounded primarch and, arguably, the greatest politician of the lot.


Yes I agree. He was the most well rounded, and I might add, the best at it. As the title _"Warmaster,"_ suggests, he wasn't just politically astute (although his political skills were very helpful in dealing with the other primarch's egos). He could assess weaknesses and take advantage of them better than any of his brothers. 

He assessed the flaws, weaknesses, and vulnerabilities of Fulgrim, Angron, Mortarion, Perturabo, & Curze in getting them to turn to his cause. Lorgar was already on board, Magnus was forced into it by circumstance, and Alpharius/Omegon I would say more chose for their own reasons.

He also assessed the weaknesses of Dorn (and his loyal brothers and father in general) to dream that one of their own might turn against them. He used this time and time again, first to start his rebellion and recruitment of the susceptible primarchs in secret, then to issue orders for the most some of the most formidable generals (Guilliman, Jonson, and Russ) to be out of position when everything went down, and then to mask how far the rebellion had spread when he had secretly swayed 4 of the 7 legions Dorn sent to deal with him, etc.

At Istvaan V he correctly assessed that Manus (head strong) would charge strait into the trap which cost the Emperor 3 full legions of his precious space marines, and after previously placing the Ultramarines, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves out of position was able to (with a little help from chaos) make it to Terra before they could arrive to help.

He had also further sealed the noose around Terra by correctly assessing and exploiting the technologically greedy and power hungry nature of a good chunk of the Adeptus Mechanicus as well as certain Titan legions, etc.



Assessing and exploiting weaknesses is a powerful tool which is why I think Horus would win out over (just like Loken did over Lucius) Angron's pure aggression and CC prowess. 



To be fair though, Horus wasn't perfect. He did after all, fail to assess correctly just how stubbornly and effectively Dorn, Sanguinius, Khan, the Custodes, and the imperial army + Titan legions would defend Terra. A mistake that cost him the game, and ultimately his life.

Would repeating a mistake like that cost him an arena match? 

Possibly.


Of the 3 primarchs on Terra, he defeated Sanguinius easily. This makes me think that had it not been the Emperor who found him next and say Dorn, that he probably would have killed Dorn just as easily. Honestly, unless the Emperor were part of this arena death match I think Horus imbued with the power of chaos wins it without hands down.








gen.ahab said:


> Didn't help that he also had the emperors ambition.


Oh so true. Missing this was perhaps the Emperor's single biggest mistake.





.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Uber Ork said:


> Of the 3 primarchs on Terra, he defeated Sanguinius easily. This makes me think that had it not been the Emperor who found him next and say Dorn, that he probably would have killed Dorn just as easily. Honestly, unless the Emperor were part of this arena death match I think Horus imbued with the power of chaos wins it without hands down.



This thread would be pointless if it included Chaos-Horus and it was Chaos that owned Sanguinius so easily not Horus.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

It does include chaos Horus. The rules of the thread say it is during the end of the heresy so uber-Horus is in.


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

From the OP at the start of this thread... 



KingOfCheese said:


> Assume that it is towards the end of the Heresy, and that all of them are fit and healthy.


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## Shag (Jul 12, 2009)

If it's pre-heresy it's so hard to say. I would not say Magnus because of the pre-heresy, but post I'd say Magnus.


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## Zakath (Feb 23, 2011)

Well, seeing as Magnus can fly and his kine shield can stop destroyer weapons (Phantom Titans' at least) I vote for him. He'd just float around, some 50 meters above ground and bombard everyone to death. Über-Horus would be quite a challenge, though, I admit.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> I'm going for one of the missing primarchs. For all we know, they could have been Chuck Norris or something.


I highly doubt that, considering they`re both most likely dead. 



Doelago said:


> Rogal Dorn. Without a doubt.
> 
> But as I am a Salamanders fanboy, I could not resist voting for Vulkan. He is just so full of awesome.
> 
> But yea, realistically, I would say Dorn.


Dorn? What`s he gonna do, build a fortress in the room and grind them down? 



Zakath said:


> Well, seeing as Magnus can fly and his kine shield can stop destroyer weapons (Phantom Titans' at least) I vote for him. He'd just float around, some 50 meters above ground and bombard everyone to death. Über-Horus would be quite a challenge, though, I admit.


I agree. The only thing giving me second thoughts is the whole Leman Russ deal, but then again Magnus maintained a warp presence without a body before, so... 

Red Sorcerer gets my vote.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Dorn? What`s he gonna do, build a fortress in the room and grind them down?


How the hell did you guess? No, he would just be to stubborn to die. 

On an other note, Vulkan actually has my full backing now. He would just grab himself a part of the wall, forge himself a mutha fuwken hammer and go bashing.


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## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

I just have to go with Magnus, in a fisticuffs match he would definitly lose but we all know what he is capable of otherwise


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> I agree. The only thing giving me second thoughts is the whole Leman Russ deal, but then again Magnus maintained a warp presence without a body before, so...
> 
> Red Sorcerer gets my vote.


I was actually thinking, pre-heresy still Angron. But, considering that it's near the end of the Heresy the duel should actually end up being Horus vs Magnus. Seeing as Magnus was the only one who was already a daemon prince at the time and Horus was the champion of all the chaos forces, these two should actually crush the rest of the primarchs before facing off against each other.


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## Kaizer (Aug 14, 2008)

It is very importent that everyone notices the fact that Gulliman hasn't gotten any votes at all!


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Chompy Bits said:


> I was actually thinking, pre-heresy still Angron. But, considering that it's near the end of the Heresy the duel should actually end up being Horus vs Magnus. Seeing as Magnus was the only one who was already a daemon prince at the time and Horus was the champion of all the chaos forces, these two should actually crush the rest of the primarchs before facing off against each other.


the other traitor primarchs weren't daemon princes yet but I'm pretty sure they were Warp-enhanced at that point (the primarch equivalents of Chaos Lords)


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## Maligant (Mar 27, 2011)

Wasn't fulgrim a Daemon Prince by this point? I remmeber a passage (either from collected visions or from one of the HH novels) where "Fulgrim" visits Horus on Istvaan and Horus imediately recognises that it only looks like Fulgrim and says something along the lines of "I do not know who you are, but one thing is for sure: you not my brother," and then threatens to pulp the Daemon into bits (or is my memory playing tricks on me?)

Or had he just been possessed without any gain?


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

No, he was just possessed at the time. Some argue that he still isn't really a daemon prince. Well, not like the other primarchs are. He only really went fully daemon when he got the pervy snake boy look.


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## Ashkore08 (Feb 12, 2011)

Looking at the votes, i am goddamn surprised that old Birdboy is leading in votes. My fanboyism made me vote for sanguinus though...
Realistically, id vote for either russ or Angron.
For a very fun match, id vote for Dorn or Vulkan.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

probably magnus


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## Shag (Jul 12, 2009)

Right now Magnus has Russ bent over in the warp cuz Russ dropped the soap.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

In the realms of the OP then Horus, but the with regards to the OP the whole thing is pointless as it can only be Horus. 

But you're looking pre-heresy then I went for Sanginius.


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## Preysight (Oct 18, 2010)

fun topic I will admit,

If its pre-heresy I would have to go with Leman Russ The Executioner. Honorable mentions to Magnus, Horus and Sang of course. Angron would probably be one of the first to go down (my opinion of course).

Post Heresy this is pointless.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Preysight said:


> Angron would probably be one of the first to go down (my opinion of course).


How though? The only way I see Angron going out early is if the others gang up on him.


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## Preysight (Oct 18, 2010)

If your in a free for all the first thing you do is eliminate the "favorite".


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