# Are destroyers back?



## schmitty_78 (Jun 18, 2011)

Is it me or are the Destroyers back with a vengeance? With the new preferred enemy of everyone they get to re-roll all 1's for hits and to wounds. Your thoughts?


----------



## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

_Moved to Tactics._


----------



## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Maybe not to the levels they were back in 4th ed. Necrons, but I can see an uprising of them now.

Does Preferred Enemies work on Vehicles now though? That's a big deciding factor.


----------



## zigy (Nov 17, 2011)

As mentioned in other topic if Destroyer Lord joins other units, they all get preferred enemy - that could prove useful.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

The Sturk said:


> Maybe not to the levels they were back in 4th ed. Necrons, but I can see an uprising of them now.
> 
> Does Preferred Enemies work on Vehicles now though? That's a big deciding factor.


Destroyers are shite against tanks, S5 AP3 is for marine hunting, necrons dont need heavy destroyers either, their basic plebs wreck land raiders, and tesla tears vehicles a new asshole.


----------



## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

True, but what about MCs? I can see Heavy Destroyers being effective there.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

The Sturk said:


> True, but what about MCs? I can see Heavy Destroyers being effective there.


Tesla


----------



## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

U still need to roll 6s and to have a fair chance of taking off 4 hull point you will need about 24 hits, let alone shots. I still don't think that heay destroyers are as good, even though they are an upgrade now so get RP with normal destroyers they aren't jet bikes so have to snap fire and can't go flat out for a cover save, still can't understand how a destroyer can walk... But yeah the new preffered enemy is much better for them, they basicall only miss on a 2. 

Just a question, if a re-roll a one, then i roll another 1 can I re-roll that?


----------



## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

You can never reroll a reroll.


----------



## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

zigy said:


> As mentioned in other topic if Destroyer Lord joins other units, they all get preferred enemy - that could prove useful.


Very Useful indeed. Against most non-MCs, Wraiths (witch is what your Destroyer Lord should be with) will be wounding on 2+ with re-rolls of ones. This is very good.



The Sturk said:


> True, but what about MCs? I can see Heavy Destroyers being effective there.


Heavy Destroyers just seem like a waste of points. Normal Destroyers Seem likely to take down MCs just as well.


----------



## Sothot (Jul 22, 2011)

It's a high strength shot with a reroll, how does that seem like a waste? It's at the least a dead terminator, and it's one of three long range units in the army. I wouldn't entirely discount them yet.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

falcoso said:


> U still need to roll 6s and to have a fair chance of taking off 4 hull point you will need about 24 hits, let alone shots. I still don't think that heay destroyers are as good, even though they are an upgrade now so get RP with normal destroyers they aren't jet bikes so have to snap fire and can't go flat out for a cover save, still can't understand how a destroyer can walk... But yeah the new preffered enemy is much better for them, they basicall only miss on a 2.
> 
> Just a question, if a re-roll a one, then i roll another 1 can I re-roll that?


Hence why most armies have 24+ tesla shots, which are twin linked. Tesla wipes vehicles of armour 12 or less, and if you have issues with that then your squads of crypteks with a harp and lances and a chrono will deal with anything of armour 13, your barge lords deal with armour 14 with ease. yeah, necrons have not issues with tanks

Heavy Destroyers' weapons are still assault weapons, they don't have to snap fire. But they're still pointless when everything else in your army is a more effective tank killer.


----------



## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Which is why they are more effective versus MCs, which Gauss has no effect on.

And can we say "Praetorian Destroyer Lord"? For the record, I'm not sure I'm fond of D-lords with wraiths, as it either gimps the wraiths or endangers the destroyer lord in terms of terrain. Praetorians don't have to drag around a glass ball and chain.


----------



## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> Which is why they are more effective versus MCs, which Gauss has no effect on.
> 
> And can we say "Praetorian Destroyer Lord"? For the record, I'm not sure I'm fond of D-lords with wraiths, as it either gimps the wraiths or endangers the destroyer lord in terms of terrain. Praetorians don't have to drag around a glass ball and chain.


The Destroy Lord would only slow the Wraiths down if you go through terrain, in witch case you could use your jump packs to reroll, and ignore the terrain all together, (btw you can take Armor saves vs dangerous terrain now). Sempiternal Weave adds a lot of survivability, as it allows saves form most weapons. 

Also The Destroyer Lords now infects the Wraiths with it's hate for all life. Meaning they grant Wraiths Preferred Enemy (Everything!) rule.


----------



## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Its approx ~ 520 points of Warriors to put out enough shots to take out a LR at 24 inches. 

30% more if the LR has cover. 

Heavy destroyers are a great buy now. Essentially 2+ to hit, and only need 3 glances to make a dead tank- very doable with S9. And you can slap a regular destroyer in the unit out front to take the first shots.


----------



## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

mcmuffin said:


> Hence why most armies have 24+ tesla shots, which are twin linked. Tesla wipes vehicles of armour 12 or less, and if you have issues with that then your squads of crypteks with a harp and lances and a chrono will deal with anything of armour 13, your barge lords deal with armour 14 with ease. yeah, necrons have not issues with tanks
> 
> Heavy Destroyers' weapons are still assault weapons, they don't have to snap fire. But they're still pointless when everything else in your army is a more effective tank killer.


Heavy gauss cannon's are heavy 1 sadly so they have to snap shot if they move, however now that moevement is don on a model by model basis I could still advance with my normal destroyers, keeping in coherency and fire normally with one.

And the tesla... yeah... need some... only have 5 unbuilt immortals... and an unbuilt barge... and tomb blades... at some point.


----------



## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

falcoso said:


> Heavy gauss cannon's are heavy 1 sadly so they have to snap shot if they move, however now that moevement is don on a model by model basis I could still advance with my normal destroyers, keeping in coherency and fire normally with one.
> 
> And the tesla... yeah... need some... only have 5 unbuilt immortals... and an unbuilt barge... and tomb blades... at some point.


All Destroyer Weapons are Assault weapons. Heavy Gauss Cannon is an Assault 1.


----------



## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Destroyer Lords can lead Wraiths but I see them joining Tesla Immortals. That 1 could become a 6. It can also provide some protection to the unit if in the right spot. But, perhaps you want the Destroyer Lord to join a squad of Spyders. I've seen nothing that says ICs can't join squads of MCs. It says they can never join units that always consist of one model, such as Mephiston or a C'Tan Shard.


----------



## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

Archon Dan said:


> Destroyer Lords can lead Wraiths but I see them joining Tesla Immortals. That 1 could become a 6. It can also provide some protection to the unit if in the right spot. But, perhaps you want the Destroyer Lord to join a squad of Spyders. * I've seen nothing that says ICs can't join squads of MCs. It says they can never join units that always consist of one model, such as Mephiston or a C'Tan Shard*.


You are correct, the same way a Nid Prime can join a Carnifex or a Group of Fex's, as long as the squad cannot only consist of 1 model (i.e. 1-3 not 1-1) then you can join up.


----------



## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Da Joka said:


> The Destroy Lord would only slow the Wraiths down if you go through terrain, in witch case you could use your jump packs to reroll, and ignore the terrain all together, (btw you can take Armor saves vs dangerous terrain now). Sempiternal Weave adds a lot of survivability, as it allows saves form most weapons.
> 
> Also The Destroyer Lords now infects the Wraiths with it's hate for all life. Meaning *they grant Wraiths Preferred Enemy (Everything!)* rule.


*HOLY SHIT*

Wraiths with PE... Hmm. THats pretty damn amazing. But from my experience Wraiths don't have much trouble hitting or wounding in CC so thats a minor boon at best. Praetorians, however, are one S lower.

I want to like Praetorians. I want to like them so much. I love the models and have recently made them work with my army fluffwise, hell, I even have a Destroyer Lord which is a Praetorian with "wings" on a D-lord base flying about and looking badass. But their signature weapon, the Rod of Covenant, took a massive hit with Unwieldy. True, its AP2, but it was AP2 before, so whoopdy-doo. Its shot didn't get any better, it can now be overwatched against, and charge range is random. True, being Jump Infantry they now get that Hammer attack, and terrain is a lot less threatening to them, but actually getting them into an assault is harder and their abilities didn't get much better. I want so much to like them but its very difficult.


----------



## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Da Joka said:


> The Destroy Lord would only slow the Wraiths down if you go through terrain, in witch case you could use your jump packs to reroll, and ignore the terrain all together, (btw you can take Armor saves vs dangerous terrain now). Sempiternal Weave adds a lot of survivability, as it allows saves form most weapons.
> 
> Also The Destroyer Lords now infects the Wraiths with it's hate for all life. Meaning *they grant Wraiths Preferred Enemy (Everything!)* rule.


*HOLY SHIT*

Wraiths with PE... Hmm. THats pretty damn amazing. But from my experience Wraiths don't have much trouble hitting or wounding in CC so thats a minor boon at best. Praetorians, however, are one S lower.

I want to like Praetorians. I want to like them so much. I love the models and have recently made them work with my army fluffwise, hell, I even have a Destroyer Lord which is a Praetorian with "wings" on a D-lord base flying about and looking badass. But their signature weapon, the Rod of Covenant, took a massive hit with Unwieldy. True, its AP2, but it was AP2 before, so whoopdy-doo. It got S+1 in its profile, which I guess is nice, though if I wanted extra strength attacks I'd have just gotten something with a warscythe. Its shot didn't get any better, it can now be overwatched against, and charge range is random. True, being Jump Infantry they now get that Hammer attack, and terrain is a lot less threatening to them, but actually getting them into an assault is harder and their abilities didn't get much better. I want so much to like them but its very difficult.


----------



## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Iron Angel said:


> *HOLY SHIT*
> 
> Wraiths with PE... Hmm. THats pretty damn amazing. But from my experience Wraiths don't have much trouble hitting or wounding in CC so thats a minor boon at best. Praetorians, however, are one S lower.
> 
> I want to like Praetorians. I want to like them so much. I love the models and have recently made them work with my army fluffwise, hell, I even have a Destroyer Lord which is a Praetorian with "wings" on a D-lord base flying about and looking badass. But their signature weapon, the Rod of Covenant, took a massive hit with Unwieldy. True, its AP2, but it was AP2 before, so whoopdy-doo. Its shot didn't get any better, it can now be overwatched against, and charge range is random. True, being Jump Infantry they now get that Hammer attack, and terrain is a lot less threatening to them, but actually getting them into an assault is harder and their abilities didn't get much better. I want so much to like them but its very difficult.


You are right to not like Praetorians. Being a 6" range, the Rod of the Covenant could be out of range for Overwatch. The shots are made as soon as the charge is declared, "using the normal rules for range." So it is possible to be out of Overwatch range when charging Praetorinas. Of course, this could be unlikely as many players will make themselves as close as possible before charging now.


----------



## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

mcmuffin said:


> Destroyers are shite against tanks, S5 AP3 is for marine hunting, necrons dont need heavy destroyers either, their basic plebs wreck land raiders, and tesla tears vehicles a new asshole.


Tesla against vehicles? I fail to see how S5 AP- is going to make what is, incidentally, a hilarious metaphor become reality. Surely Gauss is always better for vehicles?


----------



## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

gally912 said:


> Its approx ~ 520 points of Warriors to put out enough shots to take out a LR at 24 inches.


Sorry to double-post, but I must dispute this. A unit of 20 Warriors coupled with Zandrekh will, statistically, take a LR out in one volley at 24". Just give them Tank Hunters and re-roll those non-sixes! (You will statistically take 4 hull points at long range and 10 at rapid fire.)


----------



## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> I love the models and have recently made them work with my army fluffwise, hell, I even have a Destroyer Lord which is a Praetorian with "wings" on a D-lord base flying about and looking badass


That's awesome... I have a D-lord made form the new Wraith Kit, a Tomb King Sepulchral Stalker head, and some extra Lychguard arms/other bits. I need to post a picture once it's painted.


----------



## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

The Sturk said:


> All Destroyer Weapons are Assault weapons. Heavy Gauss Cannon is an Assault 1.


:shok:...wow... I have been playing with them as heavy weapons, and have checked the codex numerous times... and have only just noticed. I may have thought that because the weapons above and below that entry says heavy 1 and they were in the old codex... damn I feel like an idiot, sorry for correcting wrongly


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

So does anyone else have absolutely 0 interest in playing against Necrons in 6th edition?

It's like playing against a Darksteel MTG deck with a deck made from Tempest.


----------



## Sothot (Jul 22, 2011)

Until the next 6th book comes out, I think this is going to be a very common sentiment.


----------



## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Arcane said:


> So does anyone else have absolutely 0 interest in playing against Necrons in 6th edition?
> 
> It's like playing against a Darksteel MTG deck with a deck made from Tempest.


People are too used to their transports and vehicles to win.


----------



## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Arcane said:


> So does anyone else have absolutely 0 interest in playing against Necrons in 6th edition?
> 
> It's like playing against a Darksteel MTG deck with a deck made from Tempest.


Translation:

MY MOBILE BUNKERS DON'T WORK ANY MORE WAAAAAAAAAAHHHH

Get out of your metal boxes and invest in some assault troops.


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> Translation:
> 
> MY MOBILE BUNKERS DON'T WORK ANY MORE WAAAAAAAAAAHHHH
> 
> Get out of your metal boxes and invest in some assault troops.


Oh that's brilliant, while your busy talking like a chump perhaps you can tell me how to invest in some assault troops with my Sisters of Battle army?

Get back to me when your done using your ever challenging Matt-Ward-written codex to play 40k on easy mode instead of using that grey, molding mush inside your head that some people call a brain.



The Sturk said:


> People are too used to their transports and vehicles to win.


Yep, like those of us who play T3 armies who spent hard earned money on models which GW nerfed so they could cash in on everyone needing to buy even more models to keep up.


----------



## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Arcane said:


> Oh that's brilliant, while your busy talking like a chump perhaps you can tell me how to invest in some assault troops with my Sisters of Battle army?


You are having trouble against Necrons with Sisters? What the hell? In that case, what you actually need are more flamers. Necrons love Scarabs, and so do flamers, but with the more incendiary Weakness to Blasts/Templates kind of love. If you are facing instead lots of Necron AV13 walls, well, theres really not much I can tell you on that one. With Matt Ward regrettably trying to retcon my second army choice out of existence, you guys aren't being left with much anti-mech. Meltas, maybe? Expensive, but its about all there is. Perhaps you should list a specific problem you are facing and I'll help you. I apologize for that, I figured you were another SM player bitching about how their rhinos keep dying. Didn't realize you played an army with actual problems.



Arcane said:


> Get back to me when your done using your ever challenging Matt-Ward-written codex to play 40k on easy mode instead of using that grey, molding mush inside your head that some people call a brain.


Hey now, I've been Necron since 3rd edition codex in 4th. Up until the new Dex, they were in a desperate race with Chaos Daemons to see who could be the least competitive army. I hold no regrets that we are now getting a codex that makes us competitive again (Besides maybe that more people play Necrons and I'm no longer the unique and special snowflake at my FLGS).



Arcane said:


> Yep, like those of us who play T3 armies who spent hard earned money on models which GW nerfed so they could cash in on everyone needing to buy even more models to keep up.


Which is, in fact, stupid. SoB was my second choice for an army, but I can't bring myself to spend any money on them because of how much they are getting shafted. GW does need to release a new codex for them. Unfortunately, I don't think they will for a while, if ever, and that sucks. GW promised no more Squats, yet here they are trying to ream the poor Sisters...


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> ...snip


Alright, I apologize for my dickhead response. It's just been so frustrating seeing 6th come upon us, with all this new stuff and my main army just getting flushed right down the toilet. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Necrons have been fixed, I remember when they were just as old as my Witch Hunters dex. For now I just don't really want to play against them on a competitive/tac level until I get my secondary IG army going.


----------

