# Getting Rid Of The Despoiler



## Jeanms_247 (Mar 3, 2010)

*spoiler alert for the Word Bearer Novel "Dark Creed"*
Well, at the end of the novel, Erebus pretty much says that a growing number of traitors are getting tired of Abaddon's multiple (read: never ending) failures and that a growing movement is attempting to overthrow him and essentially replace him. What are the odds of that (actually) happening and would any of the present Chaos characters be suitable suitors ?


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## PrinceThaine (Dec 17, 2009)

After reading this book I also picked up on this. Was impossibly hard to tell IMO whether Erebus was talking about himself, Kor Pheron (sp?), or Logar himself coming out of a millennial of meditation.

I think Honsou from the Iron Warriors would be a good choice assuming he doesnt die in the next UM novel. Realistically I would say either Logar or Erebus.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Honosu doesnt have any where near the support to take the place of Abaddon, I don't think Erebus or, even, Lorgar have either- Abaddon is the single most powerful and influential Warlord in the Eye of Terror.


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## PrinceThaine (Dec 17, 2009)

He said suitable, not plausible :grin:

I agree that none of them have enough influence but they would do a heck of a better job than Abbadon is!


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Honsou is the rising Warsmith star thru the BL Books. In the Gaming World who knows if he will come about, doubt it. Erebus and Kor are awsome well known WBs under Logar, but WBs influence will not unit any God Specific Legion. EC and WE are broken Legions, Angron himself does a good job running the WEs. Night Lords do their own thing, no solid leader would mean they can be persauded. TSons.... Ahriman and Magnus run whats left of them. DG is either with their Primarch or Typhus crusades. Iron Warriors Warsmiths like Honsou and the others do their own thing for their own purpose, some might join the WB, but only if it benefits them somehow. Alpha Legion join the WBs, LOL, never. Then in the Maelstrom the WBs are the only sizable Legion there, however Hurons Red Corsairs are the rulers there. So no help in the Maelstrom area.

So realisticly the WBs can only muster Night Lords, Iron Warriors, and Fabuis Biles services. Alpha are rivals, and the God specific Legions have no reason to ally with Logar and friends over their Gods chosen champ Abbaddon. Dont see it happening. 

I can see the WBs defenatly able to challenge Abbaddon, just not replacing him with their own.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

tbh if that happend then there would be another 10k yrs of infighting just to find someone to re-unite all the legions!

Im all for it but there isnt anybody who can even come close to challenging him atm.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Honestly, the only suitable candidate currently for Warmaster is Abaddon, by a long shot. He commands the most powerful Legion (which outnumbers the Word Bearers 10:1) by far, and has the precedent of multi-Legion leadership and bears the mark of Chaos Ascendent.

I got the impression from _Dark Creed_ that is was Lorgar himself that was planning to take over the title of Warmaster, it would be no way near plausable for Erebus himself to seek such a title (but than again, even Lorgar wouldn't be a valid candidate for the Warmaster of Chaos).

But if Abaddon was killed or 'misplaced' somehow, there would simply be decades if not centuries of infighting before another suitable candidate arose to take his place, if one did at all.



Warlock in Training said:


> I can see the WBs defenatly able to challenge Abbaddon, just not replacing him with their own.


No chance, as I said above Abaddon and his cronies outnumber the entire Word Bearers Legion 10:1.


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## Jeanms_247 (Mar 3, 2010)

Well, maybe the word bearers wouldn't be the ones leading the new forces of chaos. Let's say that instead they form a council of the remaining Primarchs or something. Don't forget, if the gods get displeased enough with Abaddon, he might not even have to fight for his life, he might just be transformed into a spawn


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Jeanms_247 said:


> Well, maybe the word bearers wouldn't be the ones leading the new forces of chaos. Let's say that instead they form a council of the remaining Primarchs or something.


Don't be soft :biggrin: - Nothing like that would _EVER_ happen!




Jeanms_247 said:


> Don't forget, if the gods get displeased enough with Abaddon, he might not even have to fight for his life, he might just be transformed into a spawn


Oh of course, but taking into account that after 10,000 years hes not a spawn, he must be doing something right in the eyes of the Chaos Gods.


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## Jeanms_247 (Mar 3, 2010)

Ya, but they have a fickle will at best. If they get bored of him, it could happen now ... or now ... OR NOW


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

The daemon primarchs would never be able to form a coherent group in any way shape or form. It’s just not in their nature.


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## Chaosrider (Feb 3, 2010)

i agree with gen, it would be a massive scrap between those guys if they ever got off their butts. and their legions


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Abaddon is still in power because he maintains the status quo, exactly how the chaos gods like it!


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## Chaoz94 (Jun 17, 2008)

ah well i did hear ( i cant remember where i got the source from though ill look it up at some stage) that if the 13th black crusade failed petruabro was next in line , after all he is pretty much (except lorgar) the only undivided deamon primarch left, and probably has the respect of the other deamon primarchs 

my 2 cents

chaoz


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Chaoz94 said:


> ah well i did hear ( i cant remember where i got the source from though ill look it up at some stage) that if the 13th black crusade failed petruabro was next in line , after all he is pretty much (except lorgar) the only undivided deamon primarch left, and probably has the respect of the other deamon primarchs
> 
> my 2 cents
> 
> chaoz


Theres not exactly a strict hierarchy of contenders/successors to the post of Warmaster.

The only reference we have to someone wishing to usurp Abaddon is in _Dark Creed_, where its revealed that Erebus knows of a plan by an unknown to usurp the Warmaster.

The Daemon Primarchs don't care any more, none of them would make an effective Warmasters, and none of them would really want to.

Aaron Dembski-Bowden probably puts it better than I ever could:

"There's a great belief that every primarch loved his Legion, and was bestest friends with his Astartes. This was largely true with the loyalists. Less true with the Traitor Legions. After the Horus Heresy, the Traitor primarchs ascended to daemonhood, and are largely locked in the Great Game of Chaos, working on higher planes of existence and power than their Legions are part of. This is why Abaddon is Warmaster of Chaos, not Fulgrim or whoever else. The daemon primarchs don't really care about the Legions that much, anymore. As avatars and representatives of the Ruinous Powers, their vision is cast into more important places."


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

PrinceThaine said:


> After reading this book I also picked up on this. Was impossibly hard to tell IMO whether Erebus was talking about himself, Kor Pheron (sp?), or Logar himself coming out of a millennial of meditation.
> 
> I think Honsou from the Iron Warriors would be a good choice assuming he doesnt die in the next UM novel. Realistically I would say either Logar or Erebus.


I think Honsou would be a good candidate for warmaster. Though he needs more gifts from the Gods and more influence including more men. I was surprised he didn't gather more Iron Warriors from back home. I would say that both the iron warriors along with the word bearers are both the contending most powerful legions after the black legion. though i dont think they would side with one another. Where the Iron warrior are more concerned with creating their own system of power with knowledge and powerful technologies (probably a few gaming systems cause except for honsou all they do is sit around the eye of terror) the word bearers are fanatics of the chaos gods. 



Baron Spikey said:


> Honosu doesnt have any where near the support to take the place of Abaddon, I don't think Erebus or, even, Lorgar have either- Abaddon is the single most powerful and influential Warlord in the Eye of Terror.


True, hes is also new to gaining favour with the chaos gods. So in that sense he could be a good warmaster but he still needs a LOT more time gaining the favours of the chaos gods.



Chaoz94 said:


> ah well i did hear ( i cant remember where i got the source from though ill look it up at some stage) that if the 13th black crusade failed petruabro was next in line , after all he is pretty much (except lorgar) the only undivided deamon primarch left, and probably has the respect of the other deamon primarchs
> 
> my 2 cents
> 
> chaoz


Peturabo probably would be the next Primarch to be warmaster unless angron comes out from banishment. Peturabo needs to stop feeling sorry about himself and get some motivation to do so. By the way Im not bashing Peturabo I love the Iron Warriors. But pretty much Mottarion is puken his gutts outuke:, Fulgrim is whacken it:laugh:, Magnus is trying to understand... something, Konrad Cruz is a gonner:alcoholic:, Alpharius is playing hiden o' seek with everyone:taunt:, Angron is a hungry dog in banishment:ireful2:, Logar is in his basement looken at nazi films and analyzing:threaten:, and Peturabo is playing XBOX 40000:victory: and waiting for the new system to come out. Like C of E said, none of the big boys give a fuck about the imperium


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## Amra_the_lion (May 26, 2008)

I would love to see a power struggle in the eye! If only to have Abaddon come out on top and now with the armies of his former enemies in his hands commence the biggest black crusade ever! Hello battle of Terra II


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

I don't think it's even remotely likely. In fact, it strikes me as kind of unrealistic that anyone would really think that they could do a better job than Abaddon - he has the Mark of Chaos Ascendant, after all, and arguably the most powerful weapon in the galaxy: a sword with a daemon's soul that rends reality. Someone saying they can do a better job than Abaddon is like a fat guy watching the Olympics and saying he can run faster than those athletes... but he's just not in the mood to do it right now.

And ultimately, it's dubious that a daemon primarch would even care about this kind of thing.

Remember, _we_ can sometimes see Abaddon as a failure, but in the universe, he's the thematic Antichrist.

Apologies for cutting and pasting from elsewhere, but it's relevant to the topic.



> The daemon primarchs have very little interest in the actions of the Traitor Legions, these days. Established canon tells us they're mostly engaged in the Great Game for their gods (and for Chaos as a gestalt pantheon), and it seems the physicality of war - of invading the Imperium - is sort of... beneath them. In a sense, they no longer care. They operate on spheres of consciousness far above the need to kill people and claim territory. Leadership of the scattered Traitor Legions has fallen to charismatic and bitter Astartes - and the epitome of those is Abaddon. He's Warmaster of Chaos, blessed by the Ruinous Powers as the one to herald the downfall of the Imperium. He's, in a very real sense, the Antichrist of 40K. He's the one humans whisper about in fear: The Despoiler, Warmaster of Chaos, the "clone son" of Horus who threatens them all. That's how scared of him the Imperium actually is: they consider him Horus's cloned son. The Devil's progeny.





> The infighting within the thousands of systems contained inside the Eye of Terror will never end, but here was the first leader to rise up and declare war on the Imperium again, in a consolidated, unified crusade. It wasn't about fighting to survive inside the Eye anymore, or occasional raids led by a charismatic leader or the increasingly rare appearance of a daemon primarch with no real goals. Abaddon declared that the eternal war had to be resumed, and the Imperium bled worse than it had since the Horus Heresy. That's what each of these Black Crusades is: We laugh and say "Teehee, he failed again", but he's achieving goals we may not know about. The Imperium doesn't laugh at Black Crusades. The Imperium regards them as the worst threat since the Horus Heresy, and millions upon millions die every time Abaddon declares one.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Oh wow, I got to where you said "At the end Ekodus..." then I slammed on the PageDown key. I just got the book 2 days ago, and it's amazing! I'm at page 167, and I just love the series. Too bad I read Dark Disciple before Dark Apostle.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> I don't think it's even remotely likely. In fact, it strikes me as kind of unrealistic that anyone would really think that they could do a better job than Abaddon - he has the Mark of Chaos Ascendant, after all, and arguably the most powerful weapon in the galaxy: a sword with a daemon's soul that rends reality. Someone saying they can do a better job than Abaddon is like a fat guy watching the Olympics and saying he can run faster than those athletes... but he's just not in the mood to do it right now.
> 
> And ultimately, it's dubious that a daemon primarch would even care about this kind of thing.
> 
> ...


What do you think about the return of Angron? Sure he is not favoured by all the chaos gods, but when he gets out of banishment do you think he could give a blow similar to his last crusade? I think its quite possible that if Angron had more favour from the greatest of the chaos gods (khorne) than abbadon that he might have a military edge over Abbadon. Of course Im also disregarding whether Angron will ever be able to get 50000 bezerkers, hundreds of thousands of khornes daemons, and millions of fanatical cultists.

I personally think that theres a little more to Angron than the other traitor primarchs. Unlike his other brothers, he was the only primarch to launch a full scale war against the imperium. He was also the first primarch Horus was able to get to join his side.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

ckcrawford said:


> What do you think about the return of Angron? Sure he is not favoured by all the chaos gods, but when he gets out of banishment do you think he could give a blow similar to his last crusade? I think its quite possible that if Angron had more favour from the greatest of the chaos gods (khorne) than abbadon that he might have a military edge over Abbadon. Of course Im also disregarding whether Angron will ever be able to get 50000 bezerkers, hundreds of thousands of khornes daemons, and millions of fanatical cultists.
> 
> I personally think that theres a little more to Angron than the other traitor primarchs. Unlike his other brothers, he was the only primarch to launch a full scale war against the imperium. He was also the first primarch Horus was able to get to join his side.


You can't expect to have Angron come back after all this time unchanged!? I highly doubt with as much time as he has spent "away" from realspace and under the influence/allied with the chaos gods, that he has gone through all that without being altered in some way. Sure he could come back stronger however, he could also come back weaker. You really can't tell, however, if you look at examples from other literature you would realize that those who ally themselves with a certain god, take on features and characteristics of that particular god. Where as Abaddon seems to have retained most of his good looks and boyish charm. lol

Take The Exalted, from ADB's _Soul Hunter_ for example. Highly misfigured due to his alliance with a chaos god. And even Talos, who has an encounter with Abaddon. Abaddon attempts to persuade Talos to accept one of the chaos gods by tempting him with images of himself. Each image of himself was transfigured in some way to follow the look of each respectable chaos god. 

Even if Angron did return, i highly doubt that he would attempt another crusade, or usurp the current Warmaster. But then again, i could be wrong. The fluff just hasn't panned out yet.

CP


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

ckcrawford said:


> I think its quite possible that if Angron had more favour from the greatest of the chaos gods (khorne) than abbadon that he might have a military edge over Abbadon. Of course Im also disregarding whether Angron will ever be able to get 50000 bezerkers, hundreds of thousands of khornes daemons, and millions of fanatical cultists.


If Angron were to even bother himself with trying to claim the title of warmaster at this point, in a one on one with the despoiler he would likely win.

Fact of the matter is though, that he is the avatar of a single god, Abbadon has the blessing of all four, and has time and again brought the legions together to fight for a single cause. Angron is unable to do that, through his own personal hatreds with some of the other legions, through the great game, through the fighting with his gods hated enemy.


Dead.Blue.Clown quoted it beautifully, we laugh and call him things like failaddon or what have you, but how many times has he and others gone forth from the Eye or the Maelstrom and reigned destruction on untold worlds? How many worlds has the Imperium of man lost to the forces of the traitors in the ten thousand years since the end of the scourging?

Look at Cadia, one of the most important and heavily fortified/guarded worlds in the whole of the Imperium. Abbadon managed to gain a foothold on it, the world is gripped with anarchy and constant fighting. It mattered little that he did not proceed on to Terra to kill the Emperor; he did what no one else ever did before, Abbadon did the impossible on Cadia.

In the seventh Black Crusade, Abbadon and his forces nearly finished the job Horus started on his bridge before fighting the Emperor.


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## Skull Harvester (Mar 7, 2010)

No matter who would be Warmaster, some one would want to overthrow them. Want, but probably not actually do. Like stated before, Primarchs aren't going to much care about any of this. In basic terms, they got their promotion, and don't look back. 

Also, a champion of a single god would make a pretty poor Warmaster. Perturabo would be a good canidate but I'm not sure how well he would work out. IW reject most mutations granted by chaos, and the gods could take this as a slap in the face. Here, we give you this amazing are that has teeth and wings on the elbow. . . IWs say, nope we like laser guns. PEW PEW PEW PEW!


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

I just want another dominion of fire, screw black crusades! let 50k zerkers run amok again!


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> What do you think about the return of Angron? Sure he is not favoured by all the chaos gods, but when he gets out of banishment do you think he could give a blow similar to his last crusade? I think its quite possible that if Angron had more favour from the greatest of the chaos gods (khorne) than abbadon that he might have a military edge over Abbadon. Of course Im also disregarding whether Angron will ever be able to get 50000 bezerkers, hundreds of thousands of khornes daemons, and millions of fanatical cultists.


Firstly Khorne is not the greatest or strongest Chaos God. And as others have said it boils down to the fact that Abaddon is the only credable candidate for Warmaster, no one else could pull it off currently.

Theres also the idea that the purpose behind the First War for Armageddon and the Dominion of Fire were more likely to be some benefit for Khorne in the Great Game rather than damaging the Imperium. Angron, or any of the Daemon Primarchs would not make an effective Warmaster, and its incredibly doubtful they would even care for something which they would consider such a pointless and 'mortal' title.



ckcrawford said:


> I personally think that theres a little more to Angron than the other traitor primarchs. Unlike his other brothers, he was the only primarch to launch a full scale war against the imperium. He was also the first primarch Horus was able to get to join his side.


So? 



darkreever said:


> Dead.Blue.Clown quoted it beautifully, we laugh and call him things like failaddon or what have you, but how many times has he and others gone forth from the Eye or the Maelstrom and reigned destruction on untold worlds? How many worlds has the Imperium of man lost to the forces of the traitors in the ten thousand years since the end of the scourging?
> 
> Look at Cadia, one of the most important and heavily fortified/guarded worlds in the whole of the Imperium. Abbadon managed to gain a foothold on it, the world is gripped with anarchy and constant fighting. It mattered little that he did not proceed on to Terra to kill the Emperor; he did what no one else ever did before, Abbadon did the impossible on Cadia.


Exactly.


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## Captain Forrix (Nov 10, 2009)

I think that the only Undivided Champion who could and would challenge 
Abaddon is Huron Blackheart. I know that sounds silly because he is a pirate lord not a 
Warmaster BUT he has been in the fluff for a very long time and in that short story 
from Heroes of the Space Marines he was described as basicly an emperorof his own realm. And all of the chaos forces there bowed and made fealty to him, the only other person that can do that (to my knowledge) is Abaddon himself.

Remember also that he is described as being OBSESSED with his own power and determined to torture and destroy any and all threats to himself.
I think that he could see Abaddon in the future trying to wrest conrol of the maelstrom from him and Huron wants to be proactive and stop that from happening.


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## Jeanms_247 (Mar 3, 2010)

True, it seems as though he's been going up in prominence extremely quickly. Like, the 5th edition of chaos has him on the cover and portrays him as a god almost. Maybe he's going to be the next warmaster?


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

Lorgar would be the one if any to be the new warmaster just for the fact that he is the most favoured of chaos undivided. 
the founder of the dark creed leading all the forces of chaos on a galaxy purging crusade of the imperial cult would be epic to say the least and if anyone was to do it then it would be lorgar.
maybe he isnt liked by everyone but if the panthean filtered word down to all the chaos minions then it could work but really the chaos gods are happy with how things are as they are getting all they want from the imperium in how it is run now. 
yeh maybe people still worship the emperor but then that worship might be going to waste and people souls are still devoured in the warp weither they have been loyal to the throne or not.
for me the outcome of the heresy was always to the pantheans liking and having the emp in limbo on the throne enables them to feed on the terror of a twisted imperium without the influence of the emp trying to steer it on the right path.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Firstly Khorne is not the greatest or strongest Chaos God. And as others have said it boils down to the fact that Abaddon is the only credable candidate for Warmaster, no one else could pull it off currently.


"Khorne is generally the dominant Chaos god, for he draws on the rawest, most elemental forces of human nature." Pg. 47 Chaos Codex 4th eddition

His greater daemons are mentioned as the most powerful. In describing the bloodthirster, "None save the primarchs of old were truly its equal in power."- page 23 4th edition chaos book

"He is the mightiest and the oldest of the four Chaos gods, fully coming into existence during Terra's Middle Ages." I took that from Lexicanum but I'm pretty sure its from Liber Chaotica...  can't find my copy



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Theres also the idea that the purpose behind the First War for Armageddon and the Dominion of Fire were more likely to be some benefit for Khorne in the Great Game rather than damaging the Imperium. Angron, or any of the Daemon Primarchs would not make an effective Warmaster, and its incredibly doubtful they would even care for something which they would consider such a pointless and 'mortal' title.


Granted, though we cannot deny the strength of 50000 bezerkers, and the hundreds of thousands of cultist and daemons under his belt. I think that unlike the other primarchs he still is something that the Imperium must be very much afraid of. A blood thirsty daemon prince primarch capable of swallowing more than three dozen star systems.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> So?


 u 2 lol.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Unknown Primarch said:


> Lorgar would be the one if any to be the new warmaster just for the fact that he is the most favoured of chaos undivided.


Lorgar _believes_ he's the favoured, chosen special baby boy of Chaos. For all his power and the decision not to devote himself to one god, there's no actual canon evidence that he's in any way more powerful or preferred over his brothers, though.

I doubt he'd succeed as Warmaster for very long at all. The difference between him and Abaddon is that Abaddon has spent 10,000 years blessed by all four Chaos Gods, kicking ass and uniting the Traitor Legions. He's respected, and feared, above any other being in the Eye.

Lorgar has spent 10,000 years doing practically nothing by comparison, and doesn't have the Mark of Chaos Ascendant. The Ruinous Powers have plans for Abaddon, not Lorgar, and the Word Bearer primarch was one of the least-liked, anyway. The Legions likely wouldn't follow him - especially the ones that worship a specific god.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

_*thump thump thump*_
*BOUNCER 1:* Ooo's that?
*EREBUS:* We've come for Abaddon!
*BOUNCER 2:* Are you, perhaps, referring to Warmaster Abaddon The Despoiler? 
*EREBUS:* Yes! Th-
_(BOUNCER 1 flexes his muscles in a manner that would put some plate tectonics to shame)_
*BOUNCER 2:* That's _Mister_ The Despoiler to the likes of you. Whaddya want?
*EREBUS:* I have come with my legions of followers to unseat the false Warmaster and take his crown for my own! Yes! The stars themselves shall be quenched in the blood of a new unhallowed dawn! Bwa-ha-haaa! 
*BOUNCER 1:* You and your what?
*EREBUS:* My legions of followers!
_(BOUNCER 2 stares over Erebus' shoulder)_
*BOUNCER 2:* ERE! Are you lot wiv 'im?
_(WORD BEARERS 1 through 248 cough nervously, become suddenly very interested in the wallpaper, whistle innocently and generally attempt to look as though they're not actually there)_
*EREBUS:* Guys...seriously. Weak. Really, really weak.
*BOUNCER 1:* Nah bugger orf before we does to you wot we done to that poncy git Lucius last week!


_____


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> "Khorne is generally the dominant Chaos god, for he draws on the rawest, most elemental forces of human nature." Pg. 47 Chaos Codex 4th eddition
> 
> His greater daemons are mentioned as the most powerful. In describing the bloodthirster, "None save the primarchs of old were truly its equal in power."- page 23 4th edition chaos book
> 
> "He is the mightiest and the oldest of the four Chaos gods, fully coming into existence during Terra's Middle Ages." I took that from Lexicanum but I'm pretty sure its from Liber Chaotica...  can't find my copy


That _was_ the case. But the introduction of the now indepth background of the Great Game of Chaos in the Daemons codex has modified that slightly. The nature of the Great Game is such that at different times one god is more powerful than all others - That means sometimes Khorne is the strongest, but also that sometimes he is the weakest.



Svartmetall said:


> *EREBUS:* Guys...seriously. Weak. Really, really weak.


Gotta love Eric :grin:


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Svartmetall said:


> *BOUNCER 1:* Nah bugger orf before we does to you wot we done to that poncy git Lucius last week!


Heh heh heh. I love Lucius beating. If I could I would keep him around just to kick the hell out of him without killing him. 

Incidently, does anybody remember some sort of fluff involving Abbadon's (or YabbaDabbadodon as I like to call him) bodyguards and Cypher? I vaguely remember something about his Terminator bodyguards being psychicly linked to him and Cypher killing one as a threat no idea were a read it though does anbody know anything?


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Coder59 said:


> (or YabbaDabbadodon as I like to call him)


Accompanied by his sidekick, Barney Perturubble?

And *Child-of-the-Emperor* - I now have a mental image of Erebus Cartman :biggrin:


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Svartmetall said:


> Accompanied by his sidekick, Barney Perturubble?
> 
> And *Child-of-the-Emperor* - I now have a mental image of Erebus Cartman :biggrin:


Really Cartman seems more like the Cruze to me. LOL the feeding that one kids parents to him in the form of chilly comes to mind.


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## Chaoz94 (Jun 17, 2008)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Lorgar _believes_ he's the favoured, chosen special baby boy of Chaos. For all his power and the decision not to devote himself to one god, there's no actual canon evidence that he's in any way more powerful or preferred over his brothers, though.
> 
> I doubt he'd succeed as Warmaster for very long at all. The difference between him and Abaddon is that Abaddon has spent 10,000 years blessed by all four Chaos Gods, kicking ass and uniting the Traitor Legions. He's respected, and feared, above any other being in the Eye.
> 
> Lorgar has spent 10,000 years doing practically nothing by comparison, and doesn't have the Mark of Chaos Ascendant. The Ruinous Powers have plans for Abaddon, not Lorgar, and the Word Bearer primarch was one of the least-liked, anyway. The Legions likely wouldn't follow him - especially the ones that worship a specific god.


hm that is a good point , plus lorgar wasnt respected when he was a primarch anyway , so even if the other deamon primarchs put there different gods aside , im sure they wouldnt follow him , to be honest it would be more like a massive battle with each legions (well whats left of them) and possibly warbands duking it out too see who comes out on top

my 2 cents

chaoz 
(p.s i am looking forward to your first heretic novel )


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Abaddon all the way. Asides that I'd imagine "Little" Horus Aximand should be pretty experienced and powerful in his own right by this stage. Assuming he's still alive.


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## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

what about any of the surviving primarchs? they could easily best abbadon in single combat its just his legion which someone could convince to betray him. so whats more scary a chaos marine or a chaos primarch?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

warsmith7752 said:


> what about any of the surviving primarchs? they could easily best abbadon in single combat its just his legion which someone could convince to betray him. so whats more scary a chaos marine or a chaos primarch?


Well its quite probable that a Daemon Primarch would be able to trump Abaddon. However, Abaddon is owed the allegience of the largest Legion of Astartes (by far) and therefore probably also the largest fleet. Abaddon's true strength is not in his close combat skills (although he is a beast in that regard!), the major threat he poses to the Imperium is because he can forge Black Crusades, armies made up from all the 9 Legions, countless renegade Chapters and untold trillions of Lost & the Damned, which none of the Primarchs can get anywhere near to doing.

So a Daemon Primarch may be able to defeat him in close combat (although arguably couldn't), but they would probably only make it to close combat with him if they Abaddon let them 

But also I see no real reason why the Daemon Primarchs would actually want to challenge Abaddon, if anything they benefit from him being Warmaster, and his Black Crusades.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I honestly think his Reality Tearing DW and Eternal Warrior puts him at DP Primarch lvl. At the least Primarch lvl. That would be a great match. All four Chaos Blessings and his DW of DWs against a DP Primearch like Angron. Compare the stats, they both have them.  Epic.... 

BL take notes, this is what the fans want. :laugh:


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