# GW sues Warhammer Alliance...



## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

If you hadn't heard it yet, in yet another showcasing of the Games Workshop legal department being staffed by Orks, they're going after another fansite. Warhammer Alliance this time, a newssite for their MMO. Another move sure to win them ever so many online fans...

It's even been picked up by Slashdot. Note that Warhammer Alliance actually had GW's okay in 2006...


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Sounds very harsh to me.

Looking at it, I think its more about traffic and the fact they probably come higher up on search results than the official GW sites.

The only long term save is possibly a change of site name.

My thoughts don't mean much but they are with all the folks at Warhammer Alliance.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Weird situation. 

Doesn't this mean every site with GW names in the URL is in for it?


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Well The Warhammer Forums is also screwed.. As is Tau Online.. GW's IP policy sucks.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Marneus Calgar said:


> Well The Warhammer Forums is also screwed.. As is Tau Online.. GW's IP policy sucks.


I think this more to do with the media arena warhammer alliance operates in than GW IP policy, we were talking about something similar a few months back when GW did the same to that blood bowl forum, GW are likely under pressure from its licensed partners to police the IP that direct involves computer games.Plus i think the computer game studios that prodice stuff based on GW IP will be based in the US and we all know how much those Americans love a day in court, must be in that constitution thing they are always banging on about.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Sigh... how much longer before GW Legal Department runs the buissness into the ground. All that+time and money in my models, all for naught in a few years. GW only advertisment is on these websites they're suing. Suing fans and free advertisment is not good buissness.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

I agree with Bits & Kits (apart from the yank bashing), it's going to be something to do with Warhammer alliance using the word warhammer in their domian name. Back when Onuel and myself were first discussing ideas for thebestwargame.com, we planned to use a different name, but dropped it due to legal issues.

Personally I'm with Games Workshop on this, and where sites are concerned they need to get permission to use copyrighted material. Either that or they should come up with a different name. Look at the big sites such as Warseer and Heresy, and you won't find any legal issues because their names don't infringe copyright (though I'm surprised Bolter & Chainsword or Dakka Dakka haven't had any problems).

@Bits & Kits: As for Americans having a penchant for litigation, well I don't know where you've been, but we British are far worse.


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## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

I might've accepted that it's just business and GW is being pushed, but in the okay I linked the site's founder has this gem which certainly seems to imply that GW and Mythic knew of the site, had contact with them before, and were fine with it:



> This footer and disclaimer was agreed to by Games Workshop, the Licensing Manager and Mythic Entertainment.
> 
> Things seemed to be going great. In fact Erik even registered here at the site and granted us a some interviews. Read that again. Games Workshop was helping promote the site by doing interviews with us back in 2006. Here is a link to Eriks first interview.
> 
> ...



And at that point, it suddenly seems rather more difficult to defend sueing them. :fool:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i was just having a jape .

I look at it this way if your gonna use GW copyright or trade mark in a web site title you have lit a legal fuse, the length of that fuse is ultimately gonna depend on GW and the content of your site, bolter and chain sword tow the GW line and dont make money by selling advertising etc and they follow guide lines set down by GW so they get a long fuse.
Warhammer Aliance may have had backing in 2006 but that was the honeymoon period for the game, GW needed all the help it could get to compete with EQ2 and Warcraft, time have changed and GW may have ben happy to promote the site as it benefitted them but maybe the site changed,maybe GW no longer like the content or how the site is managed or maybe the site has stepped beyond the allowed level of IP usage, fact is GW own the rights so its up to them who they allow to use them and how, from a business stand point GW need mindless subscribers paying money every month, they dont however need people going to fan sites that dont have the companies bottom line at the core of its content, Same mentality GW shows towards table top forums like this one and to magazines like war games illustrated.


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

The Sullen One said:


> Personally I'm with Games Workshop on this, and where sites are concerned they need to get permission to use copyrighted material..


Please read everything reguarding the event. There's information in this thread attesting to the fact that they got permission. Additionally, isn't thw word "warhammer" quite STOUTLY public domain?

We're really looking at two things here:

Firstly, in GW's defense, the current IP laws state that you have to enforce your IP or else you lose it. Rollerblade lost their IP over their own company name due to the fact that they did not stop other from using it. As such, the term "rollerblades" is no longer their IP. Wizards of the Coast has run into this numerous times. They decide to ignore some Magic fan's site, and then their lawyers, years later, make them do something about it. Anyone who used Magic Workstation and who doesn't update their own MasterBase by hand has probably run into this.

The other point is fair use: Quite frankly, I'm just dying for someone to actually take the lawsuit, fight it and plead fair use. It does, in my non-legal specialist eyes, SQUARELY fall under the heading of fair use.


So, ultimately, this isn't GW being the Big Bad Boys who Hate Their Fans. This is a clash between fair use and the fact that IP laws EXPLICITLY require the IP holder to sue to protect their IP or else they lose the ownership of the IP. They'll HAVE to sue periodically whenever people cross a certain line unless someone fights the lawsuit and wins.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Warhammer is a trademarked name, War Hammer (note 2 separate words) is in the public domain to describe the weapon.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I'm a little confused as to why they didn't get a C+D order before being sued? Surely sueing isn't a first step, it's a last?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> Warhammer is a trademarked name, War Hammer (note 2 separate words) is in the public domain to describe the weapon.


True, but you cant space a Website adress. So back to a Website about War Hammers would have to use the Adress of WarHammer.com. So if I wanted to talk about skull crushing goodness for sale on WarhammerTime.com, I would get sued by GW for IP. Back to square one eh?


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> True, but you cant space a Website adress. So back to a Website about War Hammers would have to use the Adress of WarHammer.com. So if I wanted to talk about skull crushing goodness for sale on WarhammerTime.com, I would get sued by GW for IP. Back to square one eh?


I think you would only get sued if your website also included GW related content, if you had a site with warhammer in the title and the content was not related to GW in any form then they would not be able to stop you, plenty of companies have the same name but are unrelated, i could be wrong but normally companies on have a problem with IP infringement when the infringer is profiting from there good name or causing damage to there reputation(wwf vs wwf?).
Did they get a cease and desist ? quite likely they did, but as people have said before those letters basicly mean nothing, its a lawyer writing to ask you to stop or they will take you to court, quite often people say "go ahead" and in this case if they can show the judge GW were happy to support them back in 2006 then they maybe they will get the judge to rule in there favour or chuck the case out, hell if they have the funds available might be worth fighting GW just for the hell of it.


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## PsychoXeno (Jun 23, 2008)

I dont like the fact they are sueing pretty much the life line for their WH Online game. Barely anyone uses the one official forum because it is lackluster. (Many of us use both infact.) On the official WAR site Warhammer Alliance is actually still under the list of fansites- Herald>Community>Fan Sites along with: 

Warhammer Online Vault
WAR Allakhazam 
Warhammer Database - MMO DB
War.MMOUI
Warhammer Worlds 
WAR-Welten
Warhammer Mystics 
WAR-ESP 


So I guess those are next. This is whole thing is going to cause even more people to leave the game I can almost assure you. GW and Mythic apparently want the game to fail as hard as possible. Between the Bright Wizard "hardcore OP for several months-weakening-then strong OP-to somewhat balanced- to OP when abused the rightway" to the poor endgame(that is supposedly fixed in the next patch),_ the billing bug that charged some people into the thousands of dollar_s and refusal to acknowledge bugs/issues/poorbalance. I mean, I play a Zealot, and since beta there has been an issue where three of its abilities are useless and you have to spec into them high in the ability trees. They had to have an ability active then you couldnt use them on someone that is on a higher or lower plane than you(e.g.- someone on top of a keep wall/very small rock.). They are "going" to fix it next patch which is about a month away.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

So Games Workshop is composed of blind idiots led by donkeys. Shocking.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

First, there's a difference between using Warhammer as a domain name, and using it in a post. Its like talking about Manchester United in a paper or a blog is different from using them in the name of your website.

As to the sudden change in Games Workshop's relationship, well the site must have done something to piss them off, otherwise why go to all the trouble and expense of litigation?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

The Sullen One said:


> As to the sudden change in Games Workshop's relationship, well the site must have done something to piss them off, otherwise why go to all the trouble and expense of litigation?


Because Games Workshop does lots of stuff that doesn't make sense?


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Because Games Workshop does lots of stuff that doesn't make sense?


Do they? As I said Litigation is incredibly expensive to the point where it can be as damaging to the person or company launching the suit as it can be to those being sued.

Consequently Games Workshop don't tend to do so unless they see no alternative. This is why that French company, Cyanide, that did the Blood Bowl game wasn't sued after making a game similar to Blood Bowl. After all if you can market one of your products at someone else's expense, its better than suing them.

Similarly Chapterhouse studios haven't been sued, despite a flagrant breach of copyright, because their product is so obviously inferior to that made by Citadel miniatures, that it might actually boost Games Workshop's sales.

When you look at some of the sites being sued, such as talkbloodbowl, the reason for the suit seems obvious, and as I said in my first post in this thread, Onuel and myself changed the name of our blog to thebestwargame.com to avoid legal trouble. Admittedly here Warhammer Alliance seem to have enjoyed Games Workshop's blessing over the domain name, therefore I can only conclude that either they broke an agreement over the use of that name (as the wrestling federation did in their agreement with the World Wildlife Fund), or else did something there not willing to talk about.

Either way, no lawyer with half a brain would advise launching a suit if Games Workshop were likely to lose.


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

I am wondering what the blow back on there game will be. I know Mythic has always supported fan sites and pushed for them as there main source of advertisement, having GW go after one of the larger ones is very bad mojo and will likely hurt game sales.


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## smfanboy (Apr 1, 2009)

they were basicly trying to make money out of gw 
gw got pissed


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

smfanboy said:


> they were basicly trying to make money out of gw
> gw got pissed


Good enough reason for GW to sue them.


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

-My bad, posted without reading the whole thread-


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