# the new meta



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

so 6th edition is here, and as people get to grips with the new tricks it offers the meta is blown wide open

what meta shifts have you seen already?

what do you predict the meta to be like when it starts to settle down?


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I foresee fewer mobile bunkers with hull points being an issue now. Spending 35 points on a rhino just to take advantage of its AV isn't going to help you when it gets shot a few times and rolls over.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

The main change I see is that vehicles uses/strengths have, well changed -
- Hull points makes them more effective from Turn 1, but they won't last for as many Turns.
- more shooty and mobile but less durable/survivable.
- Embarked troops can't contest, so need to disembark...so no Vets grabbing Objectives last turn.
- can't disembark and assault.

Basically I think that Transports especially will either be spammed to the max, or you'll see none, and Chimeras will be static firebases behind Cover for most of a game.

Also been able to pick out/assassinate Characters etc is a biggie.

Also the changes to Power Weapons...they're all diferent now, Axes, Swords, Mauls, etc.
The AP1/2 Weapons buff changes is fairly huge as well.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

I expect that for the Imperium players we'll see less assault based squads in anything other than a Land Raider due to the loss of hopping out of a vehicle that hasn't moved and assaulting the same turn is no longer an option.

This of course means that uber killy assault units will likely need to be taken in pairs to prevent total wipes early on, and that they'll be easier to avoid thanks to being slower overall.

Of course Terminators will still be pretty hard to kill, but still won't like massed shooting anymore than anyone else does. Add in a high points cost to run mid to large sized units and they'll either eat massively into an army's points or be run in small units to manage costs.

Overall I think the meta is shifting from the balanced mech list to the balanced hybrid list for a lot of armies, though Orks will still stay mostly unchanged, and Dark Eldar will have to move to a more balanced list between shooting and assault (though currently they seem to favor the idea of an all shooting army, frankly I think that underestimates the use of assault-based units to flush out units holding objectives that couldn't be taken out through shooting).

Overall, I think we're moving towards a fairly balanced mix of units where armies can no longer rely on just spamming one unit to play effectively or using just one kind of unit. Sure it hurts some of the basic builds we knew from 5th as good, but the concepts of covering your weak points and using redundant units to ensure you won't lose specific units as well as playing the mission are all solid concepts that will continue to work in 6th.


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## Starsplice (Jul 17, 2012)

Melta I think may see a drop in trade for plasma. Especially for MEQ armies. With rapid fire changed, plasma can wipe tanks out from longer (safer) distances without suffering a potential 6" explosion. 

Tanks, specifically rhinos used as mobile walls and to help units block characters and IC's from LOS so they can't look out sir wounds away. 35 points to help protect a squad of 150+ sounds like a good deal to me. 

Dark Eldar now have the best anti tank units in the game IMHO. Wyches with haywire grenades. Multi assault out of a raider with haywire grenades against, who cares, glance those puppies to death. No explosions, no extra wounds and off you go. 

Meta shift I see in people actually reading and knowing the rules and how to position their units. before it didn't matter, you just removed the guy you wanted. Now it really matters how you move units. Plus the rules aren't as forgiving to mistakes. In 5th ed people could troll around rules, get called out an it wasn't a big deal (sometimes). Now a foolish mistake can really mess you up. Like not reading how you can't assault out of transports. Now that will change as 6th ed becomes more saturated and people learn from mistakes. But even still, gotta be on top of what the rules say and do. 

Lots more termies. Yes, I believe this is going to happen. I even broke down and bought some because of how wickedly awesome they are now. Especially BA termies. Hahahaha. *ahem. But seriously though, power weapons can't instagib them. They can instagib pretty much whatever with TH/SS. And they don't cost any more than last edition. 

I really really think a nice thing about the meta is that it will actually begin to shift and change more than ever. With new combos, unusual mixes, and players realizing they have so much freedom to do things. Local meta will be changing and growing all the time. Tournament meta will probably be a set of things that are the most effective and efficient like 5th ed was. But on a more down to earth scale, playing with friends and random people. The meta will shift and grow as the game does. And that excites me. Not SPACE WOLVES are this, this and this forever!! (I play space wolves, this was an annoying problem) But with allies its so much more fun. Space Wolves and Orks (lawl), Blood Angels and Grey Knights (crap), eldar and dark eldar, so many more options to play the game is wonderful.


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## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

@HOBO - Don't forget the Bubblewrap, that will be even better moveable cover (and gets tanks out of the mess that is vehicle assaults), and can be a threat in its own right with the new and improved rapid fire/overwatch rules.

Hopefully, mixed tactics are the way forward, rather than the previous approach of "spam tier 3 units and WIN!", as we have to now deal with at least three different categories: Air, Ground Infantry and Vehicles, and an imbalance in capability will see us beaten. As an IG player, i will be more willing to bubblewrap my tanks to protect them from shooting and assaults, and relying on more footslogging infantry to do stuff.

Last turn objective drops will still happen though - hover flyers do this best (particularly the vendetta, which has a decent anti-tank role, so will remain zooming for as long as possible hopefully), and its best to do it with pathetic units (i won a game just for letting a vendetta drop a single almost barebones infantry squad onto an objective t5 - 55pts well spent there ).

Also due to the FC nerf, i doubt the straken PW blob build is dead, because part of its USP was the fact that you get to attack with spammed PWs simultaneously with SM


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## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

It's going to be about balance, army builds, and covering up army deficiencies with good strategy. 

There's more pressure to take plasma because of AP2, and more pressure to take flamers because of overwatch. That means more of a "penalty" for maxing out melta. 

Random warlord and psychic powers means you'll have to be prepared for anything, even within your local meta. 

The potential of flyers means taking your own and/or anti-air to deal with them, leaving less room for other units. 

Vehicles being unable to claim or contest objectives in any way means infantry are more important, yet are more vulnerable because of deadlier shooting. 

Board positioning is even more important now because of the shooting rules and how wounds are allocated. Special weapons guys and characters are no longer safe just because they're in a unit. 

I think the new meta is very promising. It will put a big premium on thoughtful builds and battlefield strategy instead of just a contest of who brought more tanks and meltaguns.


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## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Starsplice said:


> Dark Eldar now have the best anti tank units in the game IMHO. Wyches with haywire grenades. Multi assault out of a raider with haywire grenades against, who cares, glance those puppies to death. No explosions, no extra wounds and off you go.


Necron Warriors are just as efficient as taking out vehicles IMO, not to mention Harbingers of the Storm with their Assault 4 Haywire weapon.


I find myself a fan of the random Warlord traits. Makes the game a bit more unpredictable. 

You have to plan for fliers in every list now, and since troops are even more important now, you need to protect them and have enough of them. 

Armor save of 2+ is a big one that people need to plan for, especially in CC oriented armies who relied on power weapons.


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## VanquisherMBT (Apr 18, 2012)

I wish there never was a meta, and wished it would never rear its ugly head, meta *spits* what a pathetic, archaic, backwards thing it is.


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## johnnymajic (Jan 2, 2009)

@VanquisherMBT care to elaborate?


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

VanquisherMBT said:


> I wish there never was a meta, and wished it would never rear its ugly head, meta *spits* what a pathetic, archaic, backwards thing it is.


You mean the concept of general ideas and thoughts about what is "balanced" and "good" versus "unbalanced" and "bad" that coalesce into a concept that is greater than the sum of it's individual parts, idea holders and communities they stem from?

I see it more of a natural extension of local ideas and concepts that occur to form a specific play style that forms amongst the various armies and how they interact on the table. Taken far enough and we get the sort of tactics and ideas on the more globally known blogs, which then influence the local level, which then influence the blogs....

Needless to say the whole thing gets very self referential after a while and kind of meta.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Going on past threads he posted in he is a huge fan of Fluff before Crunch.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Well I've always found "meta" a bit of a lol to be honest. 

It's one of those kitchy terms that gets chucked about like "paradigm" that everyone has a slightly different meaning attached to it.

Particularly when it is a prefix and not actually a word.

Meta means "about" basically so in essence the fluff is the meta.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Magpie_Oz said:


> Well I've always found "meta" a bit of a lol to be honest.
> 
> It's one of those kitchy terms that gets chucked about like "paradigm" that everyone has a slightly different meaning attached to it.
> 
> ...


I agree that Meta is a bit of a lol...I mean there isn't just *one Meta to rule them all * is there, because my group's meta will no doubt be different to your meta, etc etc. That said, if there is one common thread it is likely to be that SM-based armies are the most often faced lists, and mine sure is, although out of the 14 40K Codecii I play against 9 of them, so there is some diversity of playstyles.

I might be way off though because my gaming is totally insular, so no pick-up games or Tourneys, although I do play against Tourney players more often than not as there's several in my group.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

HOBO said:


> ... although out of the 14 40K Codecii I play against 9 of them, so there is some diversity of playstyles.


That would be so good, we only really have Necron or Chaos / Daemons down my way. Only I and another play GK. I'd love to have a go at some of the others.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Magpie_Oz said:


> That would be so good, we only really have Necron or Chaos / Daemons down my way. Only I and another play GK. I'd love to have a go at some of the others.


Funnily enough I don't face GK at all...I was the only GK player, well Daemon Hunters (2 seperate lists - Pure GK and heavy-Inq based with Armoured Fists etc).

The other 4 are SoB, vanilla SM, Nids, and Eldar. Some have just recently been sold off though, or are ones I have...I don't play with myself :biggrin:

But yea, I'm pretty much into all-comers lists:victory:


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

To be honest you need a balance of competitive and fluffy. If you go straight competitive its hard to justify in the fluff. For instance, why does your chapter have like 6 dreadnaughts on the field?

But you can't just pick whatever looks cool either because that leaves your enemy a bunch of pieces and not one cohesive unit. Even if it is fluffy, get ready to write a lot of fluff for your army revolving around how they keep losing. Not good for fluff.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Iron Angel said:


> For instance, why does your chapter have like 6 dreadnaughts on the field?



Because I got the mother fucking master of the mother fucking forge on a bike yo!


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Is it a _mother fucking_ bike though? If not, I see no validity to your claim.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Hell no Dawg, I heard you liked dreads so I put dreads in your dread list. Devs who needs them, preds blah, vinds what a joke.... Dreads boy Dreads.....


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Yo dawg I herd you like Dreads so I put Death Company marines in yo FOC so you can take Dreads while you write Troops.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

And then the FW models are allowed....


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Wardbayformers driving wardbayformers? Don't give Matt Ward (Or Micheal Bay for that matter) any ideas.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Since the cost of a fully equipped DreadKnightTitan would probably fund most 3rd world countries I think we are safe.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Matt Ward will still own three, because Grey Knights Are The Best™.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Now you are beginning to understand


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

In terms of the OT, I think a lot of it depends on your local area.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to scscofield again.

I just can't stop laughing at that image of a titan driving the Greyknightimperatorgreytitanknight.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

hehe the internets is a beautiful thing


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Somehow I don't think Matt Ward would agree


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

"WHY DOESN'T ANYONE UNDERSTAND MY NECRON/BLOOD ANGEL ALLIANCE

You understand me, right, Draigo?"

*Hugs plush Draigo*

"Oh, Draigo, you're so cold... Let me warm you..."

True story.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I am sure his yearly salary keeps him warm at night.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

As far as I know Draigo's salary is shit.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

OK so you can't deal with Draigo IA, I'd reckon "Draigo Envy" is more about you than Matt Ward.

The whole thing sits just fine with me, particularly since it dove tails quite nicely with the new allies rules.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I like your sig. Are we now in some kind of competition to 1-up each other or something? How does this work?

I don't blame Draigo. The model is nice, and his rules aren't super overpowered (Unless you play chaos, in which case you are boned). It really is matt ward. He has this thing he does, where when you hear he is writing a codex, you have two reactions. The first is "Yes! A competitive codex!" and then immediately afterwards the horror sinks in and you get the "Oh god! He's going to rape the fluff!" reaction.

He has never failed to disappoint.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

I just don't see anything in a Codex anywhere that justifies all of the crap that gets heaped on the fellow.


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## VanquisherMBT (Apr 18, 2012)

Magpie_Oz said:


> I just don't see anything in a Codex anywhere that justifies all of the crap that gets heaped on the fellow.


Try reading the fluff once in a while


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Fluff evolves over time, nothing wrong with what he has written.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

VanquisherMBT said:


> Try reading the fluff once in a while


Which is the usual piss weak response I get when I ask that question, never anything that actually backs up the BS.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

VanquisherMBT said:


> Try reading the fluff once in a while


Try answering questions once in a while instead of redirecting so you don't have to justify yourself?

In all honesty, having read the fluff in Ward's books (and he did write the Fluff for the Sisters WD Dex!) I don't know if he's all responsible. We often forget that there are a number of people involved in these books, and in the case of where Ward was the only one writing the fluff (Sisters) he didn't do bad to be honest.

Besides, there is FAR worse out there than Ward fluff. Some of the stuff that's come from /tg/ is pretty god-awful, and there is FAR worse out there in terms of BL books (C.S. Goto), or fan fiction in general. Ward may not be a genius in terms of his fluff, and there are parts that aren't all that great, but there is FAAAAAAR worse out there. I'd say he's at least okay, and mediocre at worst.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Local meta in my club is lots of flyers and crazy deathstars. People run 3 flyers and a big nob biker squad, or wraiths or termies. Makes running a balanced mech list hard especially with sisters.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Arcane said:


> Local meta in my club is lots of flyers and crazy deathstars. People run 3 flyers and a big nob biker squad, or wraiths or termies. Makes running a balanced mech list hard especially with sisters.


Is this something new with the new edition, or something that's always been?

If it's new, then it's not really too surprising as then it's just players being players and taking advantage of the bonuses of new rules.

If it's old, then how did you play them before? I mean, sure the game changed, but not THAT much.

EDIT: I just wanted to bring up again that this edition looks like a mixed list edition. Pure assault units who don't get great saves will need to look at running across the board on foot, using other units and vehicles to creat cover. Shooty units will still benefit from taking advantage of vehicles to get their guns closer to the enemy, and most Xenos (save for Eldar) don't really need to change much to take advantage of the new rules.


And before it comes up: YES pure Wych cult armies took a hit. This doesn't make them bad, you just need to plan around needing a unit or two to shore up the shooting in your list and deal with threats a unit at a time instead of 2-3 units at a time. The way the game plays has changed, so rather than lament it, look at it as a reason to expand your army and try new things. 

Heck, I'm building 3 Penitent Engines I recently got to try out since they're a lot better than the used to be.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Zion said:


> Is this something new with the new edition, or something that's always been?
> 
> If it's new, then it's not really too surprising as then it's just players being players and taking advantage of the bonuses of new rules.
> 
> If it's old, then how did you play them before? I mean, sure the game changed, but not THAT much.


6th ed brought the flyers. Most players now run 3 flyers or have a coupple and are building/buying more. It wasn't hard to deal with them in 5th, Retributors were ace, but now. I' planning to buy 2 Avengers when I have the money. Please post photos when you get yours.

Deathstars were never a problem, just threw somme DCA at them after softening up with my HBs, trouble is going to be finding the points to spend on Avengers and whatever slot they take up. I'm hoping it isn't fast because reserved fast attack well... arn't very fast? lol


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