# Command squads and Honour guards



## Shaun_wi (Oct 8, 2008)

Basically are command squads and honour guards worth taking in your lists, If they are what wargear would you give to them?


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## c013 (Apr 28, 2008)

i would say it depends on which leader character there escorting. Who is it?


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

Honour Guard = Chapter Master, Command Squad = Captain.

It does depend on the rest of your army and what you want them to do though.


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## c013 (Apr 28, 2008)

Yes certain things are effected by the way the army is used but there are special characters that can dramatically effect the way the squad is used


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

c013 said:


> Yes certain things are effected by the way the army is used but there are special characters that can dramatically effect the way the squad is used


Look at it this way.
Honour guard, are, the shit.
They totally destroy anything they touch, with 4 attacks each with Power weapons. (if you don't take the chapter banner, you're stupid)
Unfortunately, they're very expensive, but less expensive than Terminators!

I'd say never take an Honour Guard of less than 6 models, you need that survivability, and you need to take full advantage of the Banner.

They also need a transport, because every Plasma gun on the planet will be aimed at them.
Land Raiders are the choice for them, because they're an assault unit.


Command Squads, I've not had much luck with them.
I've tried going melee rape, and it hasn't worked.
I think probably the best build for them is Plasma spam.
With FNP you're unlikely to cause self harm, and you can really do some damage at range.

Alternatively you could go for Meltaguns, with 4 in a unit, anything will be scared of them.

They can be equipped as a STRONG anti-infantry, with 4 flamers and 2 attacks each.
But your basic infantry should have that covered though.

I think a good one might be:

Company Champion (for a melee kick)
2 Plasma guns
1 Melta gun
Company Standard (depending on if you need it)


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## Shaun_wi (Oct 8, 2008)

Think I'm probably gonna go for 5 honour guards (including banner and champion) along with Pedro Kantor in a Razorback to save a few points rather than spending them on a land raider. I realise that they won't be able to charge when they disembark so I'd have to cover them with something (rhino maybe) so they don't get shot up. Not many units could stand up to that many power weapon attacks with pedros power fist in for good measure


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## c013 (Apr 28, 2008)

well in that case then yes if you are assaulting the correct unit. If you do take these guys then make sure that you are assaulting an objective or a squad with the enemies leader in it. it needs to be your attacking unit in your army, and make sure that you get the champion in base to base contact with the enemy leader because he gets some sort of special rule when he does (an extra attack or something like that) and i would also recommend attaching a chaplain to the squad so that you can get his litanies special rule, and with that many power weapons rerolling hits, there will be lots of dead guys around your honor guard.


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## Rixnor (Dec 23, 2007)

I really like my command squad. I equip them for melee, but their main purpose is survivability. They all have storm shields, and the apothecary gives FNP. The commander has a relic blade, and I throw in a couple of power fists on the squad to get wounds on the big stuff.

I put them in my opponents face and force him to shoot at them or take an assault. I also like the fact that they can hold their own against any big scary monstrous creature/greater Daemon.

Rix


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Shaun_wi said:


> Think I'm probably gonna go for 5 honour guards (including banner and champion) along with Pedro Kantor in a Razorback to save a few points rather than spending them on a land raider. I realise that they won't be able to charge when they disembark so I'd have to cover them with something (rhino maybe) so they don't get shot up. Not many units could stand up to that many power weapon attacks with pedros power fist in for good measure


Nah mate, Pedro is a waste in there.
They've got the banner, and Pedro's ability doesn't stack with the banner.
I'd say spend the points on a regular Chapter Master, chuck him a Relic Blade (you want to take advantage of his Initiative) and a Storm Bolter.
For 17 less points than Kantor, you've got a better fighter.

Unless you wanted to use Sternguard as scoring units of course.
But well, with the Honour Guard, you're spending enough points on elite guys as is.



Rixnor said:


> I really like my command squad. I equip them for melee, but their main purpose is survivability. They all have storm shields, and the apothecary gives FNP. The commander has a relic blade, and I throw in a couple of power fists on the squad to get wounds on the big stuff.


Keep in mind, the Apothecary CANNOT take any wargear, only the option of Bolt pistol or Bolter are variable for him.
And really, taking all with Storm Shields is kinda silly, it's a lot of points; 1 or 2 with them is great, but not all.

What weapons do you give them?
Because remember, they can't gain the +1 attack for two CC weapons while they have the shield.


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## Shaun_wi (Oct 8, 2008)

Why would pedro's ability not stack with the banner? I'm a bit of a noob still to warhammer 40K, can you name the page in the brb or C:SM


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

It clearly states in Pedro's rules that it doesn't stack with the chapter banner.

Personally, I can't see much advantage in honour guard over assault terminators, other than that you can put them in a rhino. Razorbacks are just bad in my opinion, especially as a transport for an important unit when they won't be firing much anyway. Do you want 400 points worth of character and honour guard moving at walking pace in an armour 11 vehicle? No. You could have a cheap razorback with just a heavy bolter, but who cares about a heavy bolter?

Assault terminators are hardly any more points than honour guard, especially if you start upgrading the guard with toys like banners and a thunder hammer. Yet the termies all have invulnerable saves and either reroll to wound or get 3+ invulnerable saves. Yes, you do need a land raider for them to ride around in, but a squad of assault termies coming out of a land raider is an entirely different animal to some honour guard in a rhino.

Command squads on bikes are good. Otherwise they are worse than either of the above. 3+ save and FNP is always worse than 2+. You can give them all kinds of upgrades, which have the effect of making them into worse, more expensive versions of assault terminators.

Marines do have access to cheap fighting guys in the form of scouts and assault squads. They have assault terminators, which are pretty expensive but also very good. Honour guards and command squads (and vanguard vets) are neither as cheap as assault squads or as powerful as the termies. I can't see how you can make them work.


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## CATzeentch (Dec 25, 2007)

What I found that works best is this little build

Command Squad
-3 Meltas
-4 Storm Shields
-Drop Pod

Basically you drop them into the enemy line and shoot the biggest thing first, and have their entire army shoot at the command squad while the rest of your army runs forward. Its a mind fuck unit that can scare people and cause them to make mistakes.

Either the squad is obliterated or they survive to cause havoc in the enemy army and contest objectives if need be.

The character in the unit, the way i use, is a captain with thunder hammer and storm shield just to add the close combat punch to make the opponent think twice about assaulting it with walkers.

By the way, a 2+ save is just as effective as a 3+ and feel no pain. Both fail one in six times (on average)


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Killing 5 marines really doesnt take much firepower and all those short ranged weapons that arent yet in range of the enemy now have good targets... command squads with storm shields are just like LotD: shoot them with bolters and they are just really expensive marines- though dropping the SS and having them pod in turn 2-3 to scrub any tanks you are struggling with might be cool

if that unit was an honour guard it would be a different matter- 2+AS 3+Inv is a nasty combo becuase people dont know what to shoot at them... either way I think its an expensive way to do a diversion
- personally I like to use a storm with 4 wolf scouts (meltagun and 4 meltabombs.. plus a multimelta on the speeder) to strike at enemy heavy tanks first turn... the enemy normally send a lot of firepower at them in revenge (147pt unit with enough melta weaponry to easily shread a LR on turn 1 and then draws fire from the enemy... supurb).


EDIT- just gone and got my C:SM from the car... LotD are a similar sort of price to the above command squad. 215pts will get you a combi-melta, melta and multimelta (slow & purposeful so can fire heavy weapons after a DS) and with the 25pts you save you can pretty much add an extra model- they are a little easier for normal weapons to kill but cant break and only give 1KP (drop pod would give away a 2nd).


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

As I understand it there will be no storms for the puppies, come October. A friend who works in GW was complaining that they released the model. Then released a book that didn't use it, meaning he would sell none. That aside, it's nothing to do with the original topic.

Putting a command squad in a drop pod isn't a terrible plan. You get to melt something and put an IC near the enemy if you want. Might work ok with Lysander, though not all the fun characters are allowed command squads.


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## CATzeentch (Dec 25, 2007)

Honor Guard can't have storm shileds...and it is suprising to deal with 6 marines with feel no pain, 5 of which have 3+ invulnerable saves. 

The drop pod is for a sure first turn deep srtike (damned legion come in second turn, if you roll well) and any player in his right mind isn't going to ignore a single melta in their rear. 

Lysander would work damn well, and its a unit to say "boogidy boogidy!!" and save the rest of an army at least one turn of shooting.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Without Lysander they are a 250pt freebe to the enemy- you might blow a tank but then all the RF and pistol weapons that couldnt hit your army as it moves forward get free shots at the unit you've just placed right by them (any dreads in the area that you dont blow and you're dead- 2 close together means you cant drop there).

With Lysander you cost 450pts and are no longer a diversion but a major section of the game- I would happily lose a turn of shooting the rest of your army to smash 1/4 of your force into dust- they would either need serious support or to not DS alone into enemy territory.


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## Shaun_wi (Oct 8, 2008)

So basically command and honour guard squads are simply 'fluffy' but not very effective in game turns as they are expensive and do the job as well as other units. My lists usually include pedro as I like using sternguard vets so I'll probably save my money and get an assault termie squad instead. Thanks


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

To be honest one of my favourite tactics with a command squad is to use them as a jack of all trades support squad. Rather than smashing them into my opponents battle line I use them as a bodyguard unit for squads of devastators or for Vindicators who could be under attack from pesky little fast attack or assault units. I allways take a Razorback for this squad that way you get excellent short ranged firepower and dependinhg on how you tool them up a nasty close combat shock. 

My other favoured tactic is to use the Command Squad to deliver a hammer blow to powerful enemy squads. One of the units I have major trouble with is a friend of mines Chosen retinue, rather than fight them one on one I try to tie them up with a tactical or assault squad or just pin them down with sniper fire before I charge them with the command squad pouring even more firepower into them with the razorback.


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## Devinstater (Dec 9, 2008)

Command squads and honour guard tag onto a HQ slot. If for some reason you didn't have an Elite slot available for Terminators, then maybe they could be of use at higher points game or in specific, unusual army lists.


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