# Future HH novel discussion:



## Brother Subtle

With the HH series of books well underway I thought now would be a good time for us HH fans to discuss the events of the HH series still to unfold, and debate about which events we believe warrant a book and which events can be covered briefly in another book of shorts such as in ‘tales of heresy’. Off the top of my head here’s what I came up with:

Signus Cluster events – Blood angels

Finish off the fall of the Dark angels

Background on Lorgar and his turning – Word Bearers

Battles at Calth system – Ultrasmurfs/Word Bearers

Homeworld of Olympia events – Iron Warriors (not sure if they can get a full novel out of this?) 

Fighting in Eastern Fringes after Isstvan – Night Lords Vs Imperial Guard

A book of shorts – Malcador/SW vs AL fleet battle after Prosperto/Karn and the WS pre Terra?/IW vs IF space battle after Isstvan? Anymore ideas here people? I figure a few of the major fleet battles could feature here as it’d be pretty boring reading a whole book just about a space battle yeah? 

Something more substantial on the Salamanders/Raven Guard??? Any ideas? I kinda feel sorry for them being so left out?

The war within the Imperial webway – Custodes/Sos Vs Daemons

The siege of Terra – All legions, and im guessing spanning quite a few books?

The final battle – Horus/The Big E



Some other stuff I’d love to be covered but I’m not sure how they’d do it:

What happened to the Thousand Sons and Magnus after Prosperto, and along the same lines what happened to the Death Guard in the warp that made them remerged as Plague Marines. And i guess anymore background novels on any of the legions would be good. maybe even events from an Imperial Guard view?


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## Bane_of_Kings

I reckon they should include the bit where the loyalists chase the traitors into the Eye of Terror, that would be intresting. Also - if not, Horus vs The Emperor will probably be the final book.


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## Brother Subtle

But the events after the fall of Horus is called 'the scorging' (spelling) and is sepertate to the heresy so I guess that'd be a different saga of books?


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## Lord of the Night

There is still a lot of confirmed Horus Heresy events they can do, and quite a lot more possibilities that they could create like the upcoming novel Nemesis.

A novel on the Iron Warriors, their rivalry with the Imperial Fists and how they fall to Chaos.

A novel on the Raven Guard, Corax's childhood, Istvaan III and how they survived, perhaps elaborate on their work in cloning. Plus the ending could be Corax leaving the legion, his final words would be an amazing end to the novel. "Nevermore"

A novel about the World Eaters, find out more about Angron's gladiator days, the scouring of Ghenna, when the World Eaters cleansed an entire world of life in a night.

A novel about the Ullanor Crusade, find out how Horus became the Warmaster.

Siege of Terra and the final battle between the Emperor and Horus definitely.

A book about the White Scars and Space Wolves fighting the Alpha Legion perhaps. White Scars are only legion that hasn't had anything done about them yet.

Final Dark Angels novel.

Theres just so much to be made.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Brother Subtle said:


> Signus Cluster events – Blood angels


Yep I agree with that, James Swallow over on the BL forums a while back expressed that he wanted to write this one. Although after what I've heard about how he trashed the Blood Angels Series, maybe him writing this book isn't such a good thing!



Brother Subtle said:


> Finish off the fall of the Dark angels


Indeed, but that would have to be set Post-Emperor's Ascension, so after the Horus Heresy. Although im aware that some BL authors have expressed the desire to continue the series/make a new series following the the ascension of the Emperor, whether it happens or not is another thing.



Brother Subtle said:


> Background on Lorgar and his turning – Word Bearers


I doubt we'll see this one. The Word Bearers have been covered minimally throughout the opening trilogy with Erebus, in _'Scions of the Storms'_ and in the upcoming _'First Heretic'_, and will no doubt be covered in part during the Siege of Terra (Where the Warmonger will hopefully make his debut in the HH novels )

Via _'Scions of the Storms'_ you can put the pieces of the puzzle together of Lorgar's fall. Especially if you've read the Word Bearers series. A book explaining his fall isn't needed especially with the revelations from 'Dark Creed' - although I know this isn't actually a HH book!



Brother Subtle said:


> Battles at Calth system – Ultrasmurfs/Word Bearers


Im not sure if we'll see this to be honest. Although its probably fairly likely seeing as the Ultramarines havn't had any major coverage so far. Maybe as a sequel to _'Battle for the Abyss'_?



Brother Subtle said:


> Homeworld of Olympia events – Iron Warriors (not sure if they can get a full novel out of this?)


I would like to see a novel on the Iron Warriors. Based around the massacre of Olympia and maybe the ambush of the Imperial Fists fleet would be mentioned. However I fear that this will only be briefly skimmed over, and the Iron Warriors may only be mentioned in any depth during the Siege of Terra (same goes for the White Scars)



Brother Subtle said:


> Fighting in Eastern Fringes after Isstvan – Night Lords Vs Imperial Guard


Its a possibility. When Horus sent Curze to the Eastern Fringes to secure to the 2 Forgeworlds, he said that the Dark Angels were last noted as operating in the area. This could be a set-up for a Night Lords Vs Dark Angels based novel. Which could actually be the third Dark Angels novel? & the battle for Caliban may occur in the Scourging Series, if there is one.



Brother Subtle said:


> A book of shorts – Malcador/SW vs AL fleet battle after Prosperto/Karn and the WS pre Terra?/IW vs IF space battle after Isstvan? Anymore ideas here people? I figure a few of the major fleet battles could feature here as it’d be pretty boring reading a whole book just about a space battle yeah?


I imagine it would also be fairly boring to read a series of short stories just about Fleet engagements! The White Scars I imagine won't get their own book, but I reckon will feature heavily in the Siege of Terra novels, simply because prior to the Siege of Terra they largely had no effect on the Heresy. Same goes for the Imperial Fists, apart from what we've had of them in _'Mechanicum'_ and _'Flight of the Eisenstein'_, I imagine they will feature heavily in the Siege of Terra novels.

Graham Mcneil thinks another book on the Alpha Legion is likely, so this would either be a completley new plot (one not mentioned in any other previous source) or cover the Alpha Legion's ambush of the Space Wolves following Prospero, or both!

Personally though I would like to see another _'Tales of Heresy'_ - I really enjoyed it as a series of short stories, it made a nice change. Some things could be covered easily in a short story rather than a full novel.



Brother Subtle said:


> Something more substantial on the Salamanders/Raven Guard??? Any ideas? I kinda feel sorry for them being so left out?


It would be nice to get some more juicy knowledge about the Unknown Primarchs (Not the 2 lost ones, I mean Vulkan, Corax and Manus!). Although Manus was covered a bit in _'Fulgrim'_, and Corax will feature in _'Raven's Flight'_. As for Vulkan, I don't know, maybe a short story? Or a novel based around the Salamanders, but it would have to be a completley new plot idea seeing as though the Salamanders got massacred at Isstvan V.



Brother Subtle said:


> The war within the Imperial webway – Custodes/Sos Vs Daemons


A novel about this would be fantastic, sort of the precursor to the Siege of Terra. Although im always dubious of novels that would directly include the Emperor, simply because I fear that most BL authors may not be able to carry it off. Regardless though it would be interesting.



Brother Subtle said:


> The siege of Terra – All legions, and im guessing spanning quite a few books?


A lot of speculation has regarded the Siege of Terra as a trilogy of novels. I believe it was Dan Abnett who said that it would be presented in a similar way as _'A Thousand Sons'_/_'Prospero Burns'_ duology. So it would be presented in different novels from different perspectives, which I think is a decent idea - especially if the upcoming Prospero Duology works well.



Brother Subtle said:


> What happened to the Thousand Sons and Magnus after Prospero


Well I imagine they'll feature in part during the Siege of Terra, considering Magnus contacted Horus at the end of _'Fulgrim'_.



Brother Subtle said:


> and along the same lines what happened to the Death Guard in the warp that made them remerged as Plague Marines.


Aye, that would be a prime example of something that could be covered in a short story - Typhon killing all the navigators and guiding them through the warp himself in order to deliver his legion to Nurgle.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown

Brother Subtle said:


> Background on Lorgar and his turning – Word Bearers


Not to be too obvious, but...













Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I doubt we'll see this one. The Word Bearers have been covered minimally throughout the opening trilogy with Erebus, in _'Scions of the Storms'_ and in the upcoming _'First Heretic'_, and will no doubt be covered in part during the Siege of Terra (Where the Warmonger will hopefully make his debut in the HH novels )
> 
> Via _'Scions of the Storms'_ you can put the pieces of the puzzle together of Lorgar's fall. Especially if you've read the Word Bearers series. A book explaining his fall isn't needed especially with the revelations from 'Dark Creed' - although I know this isn't actually a HH book!


This isn't my blog, so I'll be careful with what I say. 

_The First Heretic_ was planned, approved, commissioned and half-finished before _Dark Creed_ even came out. No 40K book really plays much part in the details of the HH series. It's never wise to expect 30K and 40K books, especially by different authors (who almost always have different visions of events), to match up. 

F'rexample, some people point to 'Scions of the Storm' and think it's an interesting way to piece a puzzle together. Others see it as trying to cram a defining moment of the Imperium's history into a tiny space, and not highlighting it all that well.

I mean... the Emperor himself has _chastised a Legion_. He has literally just demanded a Legion _stop worshipping him as a god_, and to _completely change their ways of conquest and warfare_. He has said, for the first ever time, that a Legion is not living up to the others, and that they are _doing everything wrong_. 

I've read 'Scions of the Storm', and the first two Word Bearer books. Still, I don't really see an event of such unprecedented magnitude reaching the Legion as a memo at a captain's meeting.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Im not sure if we'll see this to be honest. Although its probably fairly likely seeing as the Ultramarines havn't had any major coverage so far. Maybe as a sequel to _'Battle for the Abyss'_?


Calth. 

Dude, it's _Calth_. You're not sure if _Calth_ will be in the series? 

Missing out Calth would be no different from missing out the Siege of Prospero or the Drop Site Massacre. You can't have the greatest battle between the two biggest Legions just left out of the series. That'd be madness. 

That's surely one of the few books that's absolutely definite when it comes to predictions, and I say that as someone who was a fan long before he got into the HH series.


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## Brother Subtle

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Not to be too obvious, but...


If I hadn't of mentioned it, someone would have said "well what about the first heretic?". So I was just covering bases. Hey Aaron, can you mention the custodes vs daemons in the imperial webway idea at your next meeting? Maybe you should even write it! *wink wink... Just jokes.


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## ChaplinWhulfgar

What happens to the space wolves after prospero burns because they didn't have to break up the legion did they. Did they get their butts handed to them or som'thin.

Oh and what is Nemesis about cult assassins or something.


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## Brother Subtle

ChaplinWhulfgar said:


> What happens to the space wolves after prospero burns because they didn't have to break up the legion did they. Did they get their butts handed to them or som'thin.
> 
> Oh and what is Nemesis about cult assassins or something.


SW's get ambushed by a massive Alpha legion fleet. Maybe even the entire fleet! They are pretty outgunned after losses at prosperto. They ask Kahn and his pretty much full strength white scars for help but Dorn overides this and commands Kahn back to reinforce Terra. So the wolves are on their own. What's interesting is the wolves end up making it back to Terra after what the emperor says as "the wolves recieved help from an unexpected quater and turned the tables on their pursuers". Who did the wolves get help from? Another SM chapter? Xenos? It's one of the good mysteries of the heresy! As the Alpha Legion should have wiped them out with their firepower. I hope this all gets explained in time.

And yes your right, nemisis is about assassins. Horus sending an assassin after the big E and vice versa. At least that's what I've been lead to believe.


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## ChaplinWhulfgar

Brother Subtle said:


> SW's get ambushed by a massive Alpha legion fleet. Maybe even the entire fleet! They are pretty outgunned after losses at prosperto. They ask Kahn and his pretty much full strength white scars for help but Dorn overides this and commands Kahn back to reinforce Terra. So the wolves are on their own. What's interesting is the wolves end up making it back to Terra after what the emperor says as "the wolves recieved help from an unexpected quater and turned the tables on their pursuers". Who did the wolves get help from? Another SM chapter? Xenos? It's one of the good mysteries of the heresy! As the Alpha Legion should have wiped them out with their firepower. I hope this all gets explained in time.
> 
> And yes your right, nemisis is about assassins. Horus sending an assassin after the big E and vice versa. At least that's what I've been lead to believe.


I'm thinking that it might be on of the primarchs of the Alpha Legion might help them that would be pretty tight last redeeming act to before they go all dark side and will lead to how they were just acting and pop out of the eye of terror and peak a boo.


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## Brother Subtle

ChaplinWhulfgar said:


> I'm thinking that it might be on of the primarchs of the Alpha Legion might help them that would be pretty tight last redeeming act to before they go all dark side and will lead to how they were just acting and pop out of the eye of terror and peak a boo.


Maybe it was Omega? couldnt bring himself to kill one of his brothers, where Alpharus could. maybe they even had a massive fight about it afterwards and one of them killed the other? haha ok, im just throwing ideas around now.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Calth.
> 
> Dude, it's _Calth_. You're not sure if _Calth_ will be in the series?
> 
> Missing out Calth would be no different from missing out the Siege of Prospero or the Drop Site Massacre. You can't have the greatest battle between the two biggest Legions just left out of the series. That'd be madness.
> 
> That's surely one of the few books that's absolutely definite when it comes to predictions, and I say that as someone who was a fan long before he got into the HH series.


I find myself agreeing 

Although it would be a lot different if they missed out Prospero or Isstvan V instead. I mean Calth was a stalling gambit, But Prospero not only acted as a stalling action in and of itself for the Space Wolves but also saw another Primarch join Horus' ranks. Isstvan V saw 3 entire legions crippled by Horus. Both were more momentous than Calth I would say.

But yes you are of course right in that its only logical to include Calth in the Series! :good:



Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> This isn't my blog, so I'll be careful with what I say.
> 
> _The First Heretic_ was planned, approved, commissioned and half-finished before _Dark Creed_ even came out. No 40K book really plays much part in the details of the HH series. It's never wise to expect 30K and 40K books, especially by different authors (who almost always have different visions of events), to match up.
> 
> F'rexample, some people point to 'Scions of the Storm' and think it's an interesting way to piece a puzzle together. Others see it as trying to cram a defining moment of the Imperium's history into a tiny space, and not highlighting it all that well.
> 
> I mean... the Emperor himself has _chastised a Legion_. He has literally just demanded a Legion _stop worshipping him as a god_, and to _completely change their ways of conquest and warfare_. He has said, for the first ever time, that a Legion is not living up to the others, and that they are _doing everything wrong_.
> 
> I've read 'Scions of the Storm', and the first two Word Bearer books. Still, I don't really see an event of such unprecedented magnitude reaching the Legion as a memo at a captain's meeting.


Right, well thanks for the information 

So _'The First Heretic'_ will regard the Emperor's reprimand of Lorgar? (I know you probably can't say, but hey worth a shot!)

Also where do the Custodes come into it?! P) Actually if theres one thing you could say; Is it a completley new plot idea? or based on old HH material? (that wouldn't count as a spoiler would it!)



ChaplinWhulfgar said:


> Oh and what is Nemesis about cult assassins or something.


"After Istvaan V, Horus declares outright war against the Imperium. In the shadows of the Emperor's Palace, powerful figures convene. Their plan - to send a team of assassins to execute the arch-traitor Horus and end the war for the galaxy of mankind before it's even begun. But what they cannot know is that another assassin is abroad already, with his sights firmly set on killing the Emperor."





Brother Subtle said:


> Who did the wolves get help from? Another SM chapter? Xenos? It's one of the good mysteries of the heresy! As the Alpha Legion should have wiped them out with their firepower. I hope this all gets explained in time.


I've always wondered that aswell. Seeing as Grahman McNeil thinks it likely that the Alpha Legion will get another novel maybe this will be explained


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## Brother Subtle

in HH:CV there is the big picture of all the notable figures of chaos all together (looks amazing!) p262-263 but there are a few characters there i am unfamilar with, in particular the daemons. could someone explain to me who the following are:

1. Ingethel the Ascended
2. The Red Angel (who appears to be a possessed blood angel)

there is nothing on Lexi on either of these 2 daemons, so where do they figure into the heresy? will they ever get a mention in the HH series? just wondering if anyone can shed some light on the issue.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Brother Subtle said:


> in HH:CV there is the big picture of all the notable figures of chaos all together (looks amazing!) p262-263 but there are a few characters there i am unfamilar with, in particular the daemons. could someone explain to me who the following are:
> 
> 1. Ingethel the Ascended
> 2. The Red Angel (who appears to be a possessed blood angel)
> 
> there is nothing on Lexi on either of these 2 daemons, so where do they figure into the heresy? will they ever get a mention in the HH series? just wondering if anyone can shed some light on the issue.


For all intents and purposes they are both completley shrouded in mystery! 'The Red Angel' is certainly a Blood Angel, note his iconography - What this means is unknown.

Whether this Blood Angel willingly turned traitor, or whether he was captured and possessed is unknown. What doesn't make sense is that I presume the entire Blood Angels legion was sent to the Signus Cluster, so this Blood Angel either didn't go or got a significant way across the galaxy back to the Traitor command, or of course didn't go in the first place!

His name is also strange though in that 'The Red Angel' usually refers to Angron.


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## Brother Subtle

I'm getting the feeling these 2 daemons might get the 'glossing over' in the current hh series, put either in the 'too hard to work them in basket' or 'not really needed' basket.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

More than likely


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## Brother Subtle

didnt know where to put these so thought id check em here. 2 HH book reviews.

Horus Rising:
http://fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com/2010/01/horus-rising.html

& 

Fulgrim:
http://mybattalion.com/content/reviews/fulgrim

sorry, but all info is good info.


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## Lord of the Night

A traitor blood angel. Thats interesting indeed, hope they make a book about him.


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## Brother Subtle

Lord of the Night said:


> A traitor blood angel. Thats interesting indeed, hope they make a book about him.


The fact that's he's heavily bound in chains leads me to believe that it might not have been a 'willing' possession. As I've read in the 3rd GK novel, you can be possessed if the daemon has enough time to break you down (if your not a willing participant).


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Lord of the Night said:


> A traitor blood angel. Thats interesting indeed, hope they make a book about him.


Interestingly I just read that James Swallow has some ideas regarding the Red Angel, which might feature in his planned HH novel regarding the battle for Signus.

So they (or at least the Red Angel) might not be glossed over in the HH series at all.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown

Brother Subtle said:


> in HH:CV there is the big picture of all the notable figures of chaos all together (looks amazing!) p262-263 but there are a few characters there i am unfamilar with, in particular the daemons. could someone explain to me who the following are:
> 
> 1. Ingethel the Ascended
> 2. The Red Angel (who appears to be a possessed blood angel)
> 
> there is nothing on Lexi on either of these 2 daemons, so where do they figure into the heresy? will they ever get a mention in the HH series? just wondering if anyone can shed some light on the issue.


Ah, Ingethel. There's my boy.




Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Interestingly I just read that James Swallow has some ideas regarding the Red Angel, which might feature in his planned HH novel regarding the battle for Signus.
> 
> So they (or at least the Red Angel) might not be glossed over in the HH series at all.


Man, that last HH meeting really was rad.


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## Boc

You, sir, are a cock tease.


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## space cowboy

I thought The Red Angel was Sanguinius' equerry possessed by a daemon. I am almost positive I read that somewhere.

Also, why was the battle of Tallarn not mentioned in this thread? It was only the largest armor battle in the entire Heresy. It was so devastating that it turned the world into an arid wasteland and the wrecked tanks are still sitting on the battlefields. At least that is how I remember the background of Tallarn when the Desert Raiders were released in 2nd edition. I mean, a million tanks destroyed certainly has to mean something.

Thanks,
Howard


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## bobss

space cowboy said:


> I thought The Red Angel was Sanguinius' equerry possessed by a daemon. I am almost positive I read that somewhere.
> 
> Also, why was the battle of Tallarn not mentioned in this thread? It was only the largest armor battle in the entire Heresy. It was so devastating that it turned the world into an arid wasteland and the wrecked tanks are still sitting on the battlefields. At least that is how I remember the background of Tallarn when the Desert Raiders were released in 2nd edition. I mean, a million tanks destroyed certainly has to mean something.
> 
> Thanks,
> Howard


I agree, but also cast the Virus bombing of Olympia into the fray:laugh:


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## forkmaster

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Yep I agree with that, James Swallow over on the BL forums a while back expressed that he wanted to write this one. Although after what I've heard about how he trashed the Blood Angels Series, maybe him writing this book isn't such a good thing!


How did he trash it?




Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Indeed, but that would have to be set Post-Emperor's Ascension, so after the Horus Heresy. Although im aware that some BL authors have expressed the desire to continue the series/make a new series following the the ascension of the Emperor, whether it happens or not is another thing.


That would be my guessing for the next series when and if HH-series will be over.




Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Its a possibility. When Horus sent Curze to the Eastern Fringes to secure to the 2 Forgeworlds, he said that the Dark Angels were last noted as operating in the area. This could be a set-up for a Night Lords Vs Dark Angels based novel. Which could actually be the third Dark Angels novel? & the battle for Caliban may occur in the Scourging Series, if there is one.


Im currently looking forward for more DA novels. I liked Fallen Angels.




Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Graham Mcneil thinks another book on the Alpha Legion is likely, so this would either be a completley new plot (one not mentioned in any other previous source) or cover the Alpha Legion's ambush of the Space Wolves following Prospero, or both!
> 
> Personally though I would like to see another _'Tales of Heresy'_ - I really enjoyed it as a series of short stories, it made a nice change. Some things could be covered easily in a short story rather than a full novel.


Yeah, I want to hear more about the Alpha Legion as well as they are the most mysterious legion out of them all.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> It would be nice to get some more juicy knowledge about the Unknown Primarchs (Not the 2 lost ones, I mean Vulkan, Corax and Manus!). Although Manus was covered a bit in _'Fulgrim'_, and Corax will feature in _'Raven's Flight'_. As for Vulkan, I don't know, maybe a short story? Or a novel based around the Salamanders, but it would have to be a completley new plot idea seeing as though the Salamanders got massacred at Isstvan V.


Actually Im not that particularly interested in the Salamanders and even though Corax was in Ravens Flight I want more of him.




Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Well I imagine they'll feature in part during the Siege of Terra, considering Magnus contacted Horus at the end of _'Fulgrim'_.


The Thousand Sons aint done yet!




Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Aye, that would be a prime example of something that could be covered in a short story - Typhon killing all the navigators and guiding them through the warp himself in order to deliver his legion to Nurgle.


Indeed, more of the Death Guard! =D


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

forkmaster said:


> How did he trash it?


I havn't read the Blood Angels Series myself, im not a great fan of James Swallow and the fact that its quite widely criticised on the internet put me off it. But the general opinion (that i've personally found) is that it wasn't a great series.


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## Lord of the Night

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Interestingly I just read that James Swallow has some ideas regarding the Red Angel, which might feature in his planned HH novel regarding the battle for Signus.
> 
> So they (or at least the Red Angel) might not be glossed over in the HH series at all.


Epic!. The tale of the Red Angel will definitely be a great addition to the Horus Heresy series. He will probably be at Signus Prime but I hope that he has more pull then that, perhaps he is a high ranking Blood Angel.

From my own view the Horus Heresy series will go on for quite a while but the Siege of Terra cannot be very far off. Unless more original stories are made, like the upcoming _Nemesis_, then there are only so much canon events left. And some are after Terra, like the Destruction of Caliban, which I would VERY much like to see, to finally bring light to the truth of Lion El'Jonson's motives and the truth of The Fallen.

There are several things I want to see in the Horus Heresy series. The Destruction of Caliban, the Iron Warriors fall to Chaos, a real Death Guard novel and anything to do with the Night Lords or Blood Angels, Night Lords especially. Even though _Descent of Angels_ was not well received I think a novel about Konrad Curze's childhood would be quite well received.



Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Ah, Ingethel. There's my boy.
> 
> Man, that last HH meeting really was rad.


He is quite an epic looking Daemon. Your boy?, you have an interest in him?

I read that a lot of ideas were bounced around in that meeting, and that some authors are working on their next Horus Heresy novel. No real details though.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Lord of the Night said:


> From my own view the Horus Heresy series will go on for quite a while but the Siege of Terra cannot be very far off. Unless more original stories are made, like the upcoming _Nemesis_, then there are only so much canon events left. And some are after Terra, like the Destruction of Caliban, which I would VERY much like to see, to finally bring light to the truth of Lion El'Jonson's motives and the truth of The Fallen.


Well I would say that the Siege of Terra is still a fair few years off yet. Just to list a few we have; Calth, Signus and Tallarn which I think will all likely be covered. As well as a few books on the Dark Ages of the Heresy (The years between Isstvan V and Terra, which we know essentially nothing about). And I presume BL will want to milk the series as much as possible before concluding it - after all I presume the Heresy series easily has the largest fanbase of any BL series/novel.



Lord of the Night said:


> Even though _Descent of Angels_ was not well received I think a novel about Konrad Curze's childhood would be quite well received.


Im not sure myself. I dont think such a novel would add much new to the character of Night Haunter. After all _Lord of the Night_ and _Soul Hunter_ (and im sure the remainder of the Night Lords series will as well) gave us enough flashbacks/tales to establish the character and nature of Curze and why he was as he was.

Aaron said as well that if he did a Heresy Night Lords novel (which seems increasingly likely) it wouldn't be based on Curze's upbringing, but would be based on the Night Lords during the Dark Ages of the Heresy. 



Lord of the Night said:


> He is quite an epic looking Daemon. Your boy?, you have an interest in him?
> 
> I read that a lot of ideas were bounced around in that meeting, and that some authors are working on their next Horus Heresy novel. No real details though.


I presume that Aaron implied that Ingethel the Ascended would feature in _The First Heretic_.


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## Lord of the Night

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Well I would say that the Siege of Terra is still a fair few years off yet. Just to list a few we have; Calth, Signus and Tallarn which I think will all likely be covered. As well as a few books on the Dark Ages of the Heresy (The years between Isstvan V and Terra, which we know essentially nothing about). And I presume BL will want to milk the series as much as possible before concluding it - after all I presume the Heresy series easily has the largest fanbase of any BL series/novel.


I would hope so on that. I just think that Terra isn't as far off as most people are expecting. I'd also forgotten about Calth, that would make an excellent novel, as long as they show Kor Phaeron, I want to see more of the Black Cardinal.

Very true. The Heresy series is definitely BL's best seller, mainly because its the longest. Plus theres all the audio books and short stories to be made. In fact James Swallow has just announced on his blog he is working on two new audio books about Nathaniel Garro called _Oath of Moment_ and _Legion of One_. They should be very good.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Im not sure myself. I dont think such a novel would add much new to the character of Night Haunter. After all _Lord of the Night_ and _Soul Hunter_ (and im sure the remainder of the Night Lords series will as well) gave us enough flashbacks/tales to establish the character and nature of Curze and why he was as he was.
> 
> Aaron said as well that if he did a Heresy Night Lords novel (which seems increasingly likely) it wouldn't be based on Curze's upbringing, but would be based on the Night Lords during the Dark Ages of the Heresy.


That'd be great as well but I think if any Primarch could be written about like that it'd be either Curze or Dorn, since we know next to nothing about Dorn's past. However anything about the Night Lords in Horus Heresy and I will be very happy, even more so if ADB writes it.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I presume that Aaron implied that Ingethel the Ascended would feature in _The First Heretic_.


I know. I was trying to coax an answer. But if thats true then sweet, we need to see more Undivided Daemons. They look waaaay better then the aligned Daemons, because they are all uniform. Undivided Daemons all look different.


----------



## Zooey72

Isn't there a huge armor battle?

I would also like to see some background of the emperor himself. Probably after the whole HH is done. But where did he come from, and why is he so powerful. 

More on Lorgar's downfall. One short story doesn't do it justice. I would also like to see some loyalist Word Bearers. Like maybe one or two who actualy met the the emp. and could not be swayed to not worshiping him - and in turn could not be corrupted. I think that would be a good plot if you throw Keeler in there.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Zooey72 said:


> Isn't there a huge armor battle?


The Battle of Tallarn.



Zooey72 said:


> I would also like to see some background of the emperor himself. Probably after the whole HH is done. But where did he come from, and why is he so powerful.


Revealing the Emperor's origins and background (beyond the theories) would take away one of the most alluring mysteries of 40k. 



Zooey72 said:


> More on Lorgar's downfall.


_The First Heretic_ is out later this year.



Zooey72 said:


> I would also like to see some loyalist Word Bearers.


Some may or may not appear in _The First Heretic_. After all _Dark Creed_ mentions that all the Terran Astartes in the Word Bearers Legion were purged by the second rising of the Brotherhood (in a similar way that Isstvan III was used by the Emperor's Children, Death Guard, World Eaters and Sons of Horus to do the same).


----------



## Dead.Blue.Clown

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Some may or may not appear in _The First Heretic_. After all _Dark Creed_ mentions that all the Terran Astartes in the Word Bearers Legion were purged by the second rising of the Brotherhood (in a similar way that Isstvan III was used by the Emperor's Children, Death Guard, World Eaters and Sons of Horus to do the same).


The problem with that is that it's not in any published lore - at least not in the extensive archive stuff I have from GW - and _The First Heretic_ was planned, approved and contracted before _Dark Creed_ came out. 

So it's something that's, shall we say, unlikely to happen.


----------



## Baron Spikey

When I get my hands on _Helsreach_, and eventually _The First Heretic_, and if I really enjoy them then I may just have to upgrade your position in my 'rankings of favourite BL authors' from 5th to 3rd (no one is displacing Dan Abnett and Graham McNeill in 1st and 2nd place respectively)...so fingers crossed for _Helsreach_.


----------



## Brother Subtle

i agree, im 80% of the way through Soul Hunter and im really liking ADB's writing style. but Sir Dan and GMac are still my number 1 and 2 respectivly. ADB's style is a breath of fresh air but.


----------



## Barnster

First heretics looks like it could be really good, could revel alot of mystery, (and add to my overwhelming hatred of erebus, clearly that guy has done more for chaos than any other guy living or dead)

As far as authors go I really like James Swallows writing style, and think that he did a fantastic job with eisenstein.


----------



## Lord of the Night

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> The problem with that is that it's not in any published lore - at least not in the extensive archive stuff I have from GW - and _The First Heretic_ was planned, approved and contracted before _Dark Creed_ came out.
> 
> So it's something that's, shall we say, unlikely to happen.


Thats interesting. So I take it that Lorgar wont be called Urizen in _The First Heretic_.

_The First Heretic_ does look great, and since I will DEFINITELY get it in 1st edition gold format, its probably going to tie with _Throne of Lies_ for best cover art in BL.


----------



## Boc

Lord of the Night said:


> Thats interesting. So I take it that Lorgar wont be called Urizen in _The First Heretic_.


He'll still likely be referred to as Urizen, I remember seeing it in other books (have not yet read the WB Trilogy so it wouldn't be in that)


----------



## Dead.Blue.Clown

Lord of the Night said:


> Thats interesting. So I take it that Lorgar wont be called Urizen in _The First Heretic_.


He will, among other names. There's a difference between adding in a title and adding in the cleansing of a huge portion of the Legion.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> The problem with that is that it's not in any published lore - at least not in the extensive archive stuff I have from GW - and _The First Heretic_ was planned, approved and contracted before _Dark Creed_ came out.
> 
> So it's something that's, shall we say, unlikely to happen.


Actually I believe you've said that before (either in regards to _The First Heretic_ or another novel), so thats my bad for forgetting. Is there going to be a 'purge' of some kind in the book though? Or are all the Word Bearers evil bastards and happy to go along with Lorgar? 

And by the way your latest post on your blog concerning _Helsreach_ has persuaded me to buy it, look forward to reading it. And I also think thats one of the main reasons why your fast becoming many peoples' favourite BL author (or one of!) - because you don't write specifically to appease teenagers with their apparent obsession with 'Bolters and Chainswords' - you offer us something different; your novels seem to have more depth and characterisation (and in the case of your Astartes (Chaos or otherwise) novels they seem to really elaborate on Human/Astartes relationships which is a key element into understanding these aloof superhumans) than most other BL books and that is a massive leap in the right direction.

EDIT: I realised it may have been unfair of me to stereotype all teenage 40k fans as seemingly just wanting action scenes, invincible Astartes and too many bolters. But either way, thats what I think a lot of BL fiction is based around - and what many authors seem to purposefully focus on, often at the expense of character/plot development. That was what I was trying to say, that and that you don't seem to be following suit Aaron - which is great!


----------



## forkmaster

Lord of the Night said:


> Thats interesting. So I take it that Lorgar wont be called Urizen in _The First Heretic_.


This might be a stupid question, but how did he obtained that nickname and what does it mean?



Lord of the Night said:


> I would hope so on that. I just think that Terra isn't as far off as most people are expecting. I'd also forgotten about Calth, that would make an excellent novel, as long as they show Kor Phaeron, I want to see more of the Black Cardinal.


Yeah, I would like to know more about him as well.




Lord of the Night said:


> Very true. The Heresy series is definitely BL's best seller, mainly because its the longest. Plus theres all the audio books and short stories to be made. In fact James Swallow has just announced on his blog he is working on two new audio books about Nathaniel Garro called _Oath of Moment_ and _Legion of One_. They should be very good.


Really? OMG Ive wanted to know what happened to him ever since finished reading Flight of the Eisenstein. I wonder what they will be all about. The HH-series I believe is so popular out of two things 1) unlike the stories from the "present" time, these are so dependent because these will change the galaxy for all eternity and not be like a little fart in the galaxy. 2) They have various other stories than the typical "fight, fight, burn, purge" wars, they about philosophies, art and stuff like that which the remenbrancers bring along them.


----------



## Brother Subtle

forkmaster said:


> Really? OMG Ive wanted to know what happened to him ever since finished reading Flight of the Eisenstein.


ive heard whispers that Garro was not done and dusted just yet.
almost... "and back by popular demand... Garro!"

bit like Loken coming back. except Loken should have stayed dead.


----------



## ckcrawford

Lord of the Night said:


> There are several things I want to see in the Horus Heresy series. The Destruction of Caliban, the Iron Warriors fall to Chaos, a real Death Guard novel and anything to do with the Night Lords or Blood Angels, Night Lords especially. Even though _Descent of Angels_ was not well received I think a novel about Konrad Curze's childhood would be quite well received.
> 
> He is quite an epic looking Daemon. Your boy?, you have an interest in him?
> 
> I read that a lot of ideas were bounced around in that meeting, and that some authors are working on their next Horus Heresy novel. No real details though.


A novel on the Iron Warriors along with the Death Guard sound good to me. Still kind of sketchy as to how they fell to chaos. The Iron Warriors who were very loyal to the emperor as they were one of the first to join and decimated the moral of their legion doing his errands. And the Death Guard as Horus does mention how hard it was to get him to fall... would be interesting. I believe the Night Lords will also get a part in there as well. I also feel like the World Eaters should have a fair share in the novels. Even if they are a legion mentioned as part of another Legion's book. De'shea I don't think was enough to explain there legion as we do know how they use to function after Angron took charge and screwed with their brains. It would be interesting to know how they fought and what kind of legion they were when they were not bezerkers.


----------



## Barnster

I've always thought that Garro was the first grey knight, I'll be really disapointed if hes not. I think that loken should stay dead, hes had his victory against horus and abbaddon, ok it didn't end well for him but it was a victory of sorts.

do the IWs have a HH novel yet or have i just not read it?


----------



## World Eater XII

Nope no IW HH book anyway. 

There is the strom of iron book by graham mcneil that is IW though!


----------



## Lord of the Night

Ive started reading _Storm of Iron_ and its awesome, unfortunately I know what will happen to Kroeger and Forrix since ive read _Dead Sky, Black Sun_... it makes me sad. Honsou rules though and im amazed he hasn't torn Kroeger's head off yet.

I think that Loken's return is a good thing. Sure his 'death' was awesome but there's still a lot to be done with Loken yet. I just hope Tarvitz, Vipus and Rylanor survived. The conversation between Lucius and Eidolon hints that Rylanor found a ship under the Palace, so its a definite possibility that the Heroes of Istvaan are still alive.


----------



## ckcrawford

World Eater XII said:


> Nope no IW HH book anyway.
> 
> There is the strom of iron book by graham mcneil that is IW though!


Are you saying they aren't going to make one? Or just that they haven't


----------



## Orbital

Lord of the Night said:


> Plus theres all the audio books and short stories to be made. In fact James Swallow has just announced on his blog he is working on two new audio books about Nathaniel Garro called _Oath of Moment_ and _Legion of One_. They should be very good.


Now this I cannot wait for. The one thing I love about the HH series is that there *can* be a lot of character development and personally I cannot wait to see 'what happen next' with Nathaniel.


----------



## World Eater XII

ckcrawford said:


> Are you saying they aren't going to make one? Or just that they haven't


just havent at the moment.

Itd be cool if they do have one in the tubes!


----------



## Baron Spikey

I imagine they could have an Iron Warriors book centred around the Battle of Tallarn, it'd be nice if we found out exactly why the IW attacked such a strategically unimportant planet.


----------



## Lord of the Night

I think it was something about outflanking the Loyalist forces. Take their rear forces by surprise and fight them on both fronts, although it did not work.

Personally any Iron Warriors novels are on my MUST HAVE list, although an Iron Warriors HH novel would have me cheering in joy. They along with the Word Bearers are my second favourite Chaos Marines, pretty obvious who is first although I dont really count them as Chaos Marines. _Storm of Iron_, _Iron Warrior_ and _Dead Sky, Black Sun_ have cultivated a love of the Sons of Perturabo in me.


----------



## Brother Subtle

is anyone else chomping at the bit for the Blood Angels ambush(ed) on Signus Prime?

whos the best writer for this in your opinion? whos the best at writing daemons?


----------



## Lord of the Night

Personally I think its Ben Counter. His daemons in _Hammer of Daemons_ and _Daemon World_ were very well written, and showed Daemons quite how I expected them.


----------



## ckcrawford

I agree, hammer of daemons is one of my favorite books. If he did a book for the Blood Angels it would be an opportunity for him to salvage himself from his infamous Battle of the Abyss which many people didn't like. I think it was the story then the content that actually killed it. It surprises me that BL would publish an entire book for a skirmish.


----------



## Baltar

Nothing to do with the writing. It was because it heavily featured ultramarines - and they make me yawn, because they are uber boring.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Oh look another Ultramarines hater, how tiresome and unoriginal- just like the accusations they vomit out about the UM themselves!

It wasn't the Ultramarines that ruined _Battle of the Abyss_ it was the crappy story line and 1-dimensional characters.


----------



## Baltar

Since when is disliking something EVER original?

I literally forgot most of what happened in the book after reading it. I just remember that Ben Afleck in a suit of blue power armour started brawling with the most stereotype spacewolf character I've ever read.


----------



## Commissar Ploss

_*PREEMPTIVE STRIKE!!*_

please watch your tone guys. I'm not in the mood to start handing out warnings, especially over something as stupid as "ultramarines are gay, and so are you for liking them", so don't make me. :no:

lets stick to the topic.

cheers, :drinks:

CP


----------



## Brother Subtle

I was hoping Counter wouldn't get hold of the blood angels for the heresy.

I'd like Sir Dan to write it. But he can't write everything! Lol.

One reason why I wouldn't want counter to write it would be BECAUSE of hammer of daemons. I found that book epic boring and I only finished it cos I felt I had to.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Baron Spikey said:


> I imagine they could have an Iron Warriors book centred around the Battle of Tallarn, it'd be nice if we found out exactly why the IW attacked such a strategically unimportant planet.


That would be very interesting. The Battle of Tallarn has always seemed like an enigma to me, over a million tanks deployed and around a million destroyed during the fighting. 

If we consider that for a moment, assuming the Iron Warriors' tanks made up roughly half the number of tanks deployed, that means they fielded 500,000 tanks, which in turn means that depending on what Legion sizes you take as accurate, the Iron Warriors had anywhere between 5 tanks per single Astartes in the entire Legion, to 50 tanks per single Astartes, which is obviously absurd.

Also why on earth would Horus allow the use of such extreme resources on a seemingly pointless and unimportant planet, if the Battle of Tallarn is included in the Heresy series I imagine we'll see a massive elaboration on and change of the pre-existing background on the battle. 

@ Baltar: And for the record, I don't think anyone would say _Battle for the Abyss_ sucked because it included Ultramarines. Ultramarines are capable of being interesting characters after all. It was the unrealistic and absurd plot, the portrayal of the Word Bearers, and the overly stereotypical and one-dimensional characters (all of them) that ruined it for me.



Brother Subtle said:


> I was hoping Counter wouldn't get hold of the blood angels for the heresy.
> 
> I'd like Sir Dan to write it. But he can't write everything! Lol.
> 
> One reason why I wouldn't want counter to write it would be BECAUSE of hammer of daemons. I found that book epic boring and I only finished it cos I felt I had to.


I didn't even go near the Grey Knights series because it was written by Ben Counter. But that aside, it seems most likely that James Swallow will be writing the Blood Angels in the Signus Ambush, at least he has expressed interest publically in doing so anyway.


----------



## Brother Subtle

Oh dear, Swallow. Look, I liked the way Swallow wrote his characters in the deus duo. I liked the blood angel characters of the twin brothers and I thought the character of the evil inquisitor (Steele was it?) was really well written. But! And a big but! Swallow really needs to pick up the game in the plot department. His blood angel books thus far paints the angels as dumb and easy to dupe, also they do stuff that makes no tactical or even common sense. I'd really like him to portray the blood angels the way we all want them portrayed, not how he's done them thus far.


----------



## forkmaster

Brother Subtle said:


> ive heard whispers that Garro was not done and dusted just yet.
> almost... "and back by popular demand... Garro!"
> 
> bit like Loken coming back. except Loken should have stayed dead.


Indeed, I know exactly what you mean there. Im kinda splitted when it comes to Loken, one part says "stay dead" one other says "come back". But as said, I prefer more stories with Garro or Tarvitz.


----------



## Brother Subtle

Loken died a hero. a perfect example of faith in the emperor despite the adversity of your own brothers turning against you. he should stay a fallen hero. not come back all 'days of our lives' like.


----------



## ckcrawford

I think if they ever write books on the present, it'd be cool to see Loken duke it out with Abaddon again and kick his ass.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Brother Subtle said:


> Loken died a hero. a perfect example of faith in the emperor despite the adversity of your own brothers turning against you. he should stay a fallen hero. not come back all 'days of our lives' like.


Couldn't agree more. But apparently even from the beginning Loken was always intended to survive Isstvan III, I wonder why Ben Counter pretty much made it clear he was dead then.. :search: But then again we know that Ben Counter likes unrealistic plots!

Although to be fair we still don't know under what circumstances Loken will return, for all we currently know he could return as 'Super Dreadnought Loken..!!11!'


----------



## World Eater XII

That would be horrible if he was a dreadnought....


----------



## Barnster

Loken dreadnought would be cool, but who would give him a dreadnought shell? they tend to be prize relics of a legion, why would you give one to an almost dead son of Horus? Your new enemy...


----------



## Commissar Ploss

Brother Subtle said:


> he should stay a fallen hero. not come back all 'days of our lives' like.


oh, god...not _SOAPS!!!_ :headbutt:

CP


----------



## Unknown Primarch

i would like to see a novel that delves more into what was happening in 'the voice'.

i really liked that story and i got a real sense of 'dead space' from it. ive always thought a blackships novel would be a great angle to write about and really put some hardcore dark scary atmosphere into a novel. 

plus with how that novel ended i can see that the story has plenty more to offer fluff wise and also nearly proves my theory that the heresy was known to the emperor and its his great plan to defeat chaos and return balance to the warp starwars style.


----------



## World Eater XII

A proper world eaters book must be in the pipes aswell...right?


----------



## forkmaster

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I didn't even go near the Grey Knights series because it was written by Ben Counter. But that aside, it seems most likely that James Swallow will be writing the Blood Angels in the Signus Ambush, at least he has expressed interest publically in doing so anyway.


I think Mr ADB accidentally revealed on his blog (av the post got deleted shortly there after) there will be a HH-novel about the Blood Angels, interaction between Sang and the Night Haunter. Please dont hate me Mr ADB for leaking this.


----------



## Dead.Blue.Clown

forkmaster said:


> I think Mr ADB accidentally revealed on his blog (av the post got deleted shortly there after) there will be a HH-novel about the Blood Angels, interaction between Sang and the Night Haunter. Please dont hate me Mr ADB for leaking this.


Negatory, I took the MSN screenie down because the formatting was fucking up the page and wouldn't fix.

Jim's been saying for 6 months or more that he wants to do the Signus Prime novel, so that's not news, per se.

It has zero to do with Konrad Curze, by the way. It was just a funny joke I blogged, to show what HH discussions are like, sometimes.


----------



## Lord of the Night

World Eater XII said:


> A proper world eaters book must be in the pipes aswell...right?


I doubt it. Personally anything to do with Kharn the Betrayer and im on board, first class. But the World Eaters are a tricky legion to write about, obsessed with slaughter even during their loyalist days. Characters would be hard to make without being stereotypical.

I think the World Eaters and Death Guard, and probably the Raven Guard, Salamanders and White Scars will be relegated to the short stories and never given a full novel. Mainly because they have nothing to be written about, that hasn't already.

I want to see Night Lords and Iron Warriors in the Heresy. Word Bearers were on my list as well but ADB has answered with _The First Heretic_. I do hope that _Lost Souls_ works out for you ADB.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Though along with the Blood Angels and Imperial Fists hopefully the White Scars will have a starring role in the book/s about the Siege of Terra.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Lord of the Night said:


> White Scars


I was under the impression Abnett was interested in doing a White Scars novel after _Prospero Burns_.



Lord of the Night said:


> I do hope that _Lost Souls_ works out for you ADB.


Agreed. Fantastic working title by the way.


----------



## Lord of the Night

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I was under the impression Abnett was interested in doing a White Scars novel after _Prospero Burns_.


From what ive read the White Scars played no real role in the Heresy until Terra. The only way they can have a story is if its brand new rather then original to the Heresy.


----------



## Brother Subtle

Lord of the Night said:


> From what ive read the White Scars played no real role in the Heresy until Terra. The only way they can have a story is if its brand new rather then original to the Heresy.


And that's exactly right, why not create another story line? Nothing is set is set in stone. I seem to remember the WS doing some fighting just near the solar system before heading to defend Terra. Were the Alpha legion involved that one? I'm just running off an old memory so i could be wrong.


----------



## Lord of the Night

That did happen but the White Scars were only involved in that battle half-way. Eventually the Space Wolves relieved them and sent them on their way to Terra. They were the ones who lost to the Alpha Legion there.

A White Scars novel at Terra is possible but I dont think anything before Terra is important enough to warrant a full novel, maybe a short story but a full novel seems unlikely.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Lord of the Night said:


> From what ive read the White Scars played no real role in the Heresy until Terra. The only way they can have a story is if its brand new rather then original to the Heresy.





Lord of the Night said:


> A White Scars novel at Terra is possible but I dont think anything before Terra is important enough to warrant a full novel, maybe a short story but a full novel seems unlikely.


They played no real role that we know of. Take into account we don't know what the White Scars were doing until the Siege of Terra. What were they up to for 7-10 years during the Dark Ages of the Heresy? Don't you think that warrants a novel? They may well have had some effect on the overall Heresy. But yes obviously this would have to be a new plot rather than based on an existing one.

And considering Abnett has apparently expressed interest in writing the White Scars after _Prospero Burns_, I find a White Scars novel quite likely currently.


----------



## forkmaster

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Negatory, I took the MSN screenie down because the formatting was fucking up the page and wouldn't fix.
> 
> Jim's been saying for 6 months or more that he wants to do the Signus Prime novel, so that's not news, per se.
> 
> It has zero to do with Konrad Curze, by the way. It was just a funny joke I blogged, to show what HH discussions are like, sometimes.


Oh okay didnt know that. Thanks for confirming the news though. :grin:k:

When will the title be revealed as the release date?


----------



## Baron Spikey

Lord of the Night said:


> That did happen but the White Scars were only involved in that battle half-way. Eventually the Space Wolves relieved them and sent them on their way to Terra. They were the ones who lost to the Alpha Legion there.
> 
> A White Scars novel at Terra is possible but I dont think anything before Terra is important enough to warrant a full novel, maybe a short story but a full novel seems unlikely.


The Alpha Legion attacked both the Space Wolves and White Scars, the SW were headed towards the Chondax system (where the White Scars had been campaigning) near Prospero and were attacked by the AL- just before they made contact with Russ the Khan had been informed of the Heresy by Dorn, so in actuality the White Scars were unaware of the Heresy occuring at all for most of the time it took place because they were at War in a region that regularly prevented communications of any sort.

Russ told the Khan of what occured at Prospero and when the AL attacked requested the White Scars' Primarch aid them, but Dorn reiterated that the WS were to return to Terra with all speed so the Khan regretfully had to leave his brother to weather the attacking traitor legion alone.


----------



## Brother Subtle

^ Apparently this whole battle above had some pretty epic void battles! Some of the biggest during the whole heresy!


----------



## Smokes

Eventually towards the end of the Horus Heresy I hope they shed some light on the formation of the Inquisition. I've heard plenty of theories but apparently the Inquisition was formed after the Siege of Terra and the Emperor's cheeks being place upon the Golden Toilet. Long story short four people formed the Inquisition. Two of them, Promeus and Moriana were responsible for founding the Thorian faction of the Inquisition. It would be interesting though to officially see how the Holy Orders came around and what the early years were like.


----------



## bobss

I would really appreciate definitive novels of the Backstories of each Primarch, as they grew up upon their ''assigned'' home-planets. Throughout the series thus far there have been hints, small references and the odd paragraph to this, but nothing major. Hell, the story of Vulkan growing up amidst Dark Eldar raids, and the harsh climates of Cythonia (Luna Wolves homeworld), Medusa and...... ''The Death Guard One'' would be interesting, alongside those of Sanguinus and Khan....


----------



## World Eater XII

i think the short story that was done on Angron is all thats needed for a few of em. But if BL does a book for Angron i would be epic happy!


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

bobss said:


> I would really appreciate definitive novels of the Backstories of each Primarch, as they grew up upon their ''assigned'' home-planets. Throughout the series thus far there have been hints, small references and the odd paragraph to this, but nothing major. Hell, the story of Vulkan growing up amidst Dark Eldar raids, and the harsh climates of Cythonia (Luna Wolves homeworld), Medusa and...... ''The Death Guard One'' would be interesting, alongside those of Sanguinus and Khan....


Thats never going to happen though. Were never going to get any other sort of novel regarding a Primarch's upbringing, especially considering the generally poor reception _Descent of Angels_ recieved. Its also just not relavent at all in regards to the Heresy. Now yes, they would obviously be interesting - but irrelavent, and I think not telling their childhood tales helps to keep what little semblance we have left of the Primarch's mysterious and aloof nature. 



World Eater XII said:


> i think the short story that was done on Angron is all thats needed for a few of em.


I agree, it helped set the scene.


----------



## bobss

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Thats never going to happen though. Were never going to get any other sort of novel regarding a Primarch's upbringing, especially considering the generally poor reception _Descent of Angels_ recieved. Its also just not relavent at all in regards to the Heresy. Now yes, they would obviously be interesting - but irrelavent, and I think not telling their childhood tales helps to keep what little semblance we have left of the Primarch's mysterious and aloof nature.


Exactly, creating at the most ~18 novels is ridiculous for the Horus-Heresy series, just as detailing the full-extent of the Scouring would be. But perhaps a Collected-Visions-esque book, with the usual Art, Stories and the like upon this subject would be highly of interest to those wishing to know more of the Primarch`s. 

Yes, you could pull the argument that this would to an extent ''hinder'' the Horus Heresy series, revealing the secrets of the Primarch’s, which are part of the great boon of the series, but still, you could just as easily say that the Heresy novels themselves dash any of mysticism of the ''Legend''.... Not that I am against the Series, hell, it is the highlight of Black Library`s 40k literature...


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## Lord of the Night

bobss said:


> I would really appreciate definitive novels of the Backstories of each Primarch, as they grew up upon their ''assigned'' home-planets. Throughout the series thus far there have been hints, small references and the odd paragraph to this, but nothing major. Hell, the story of Vulkan growing up amidst Dark Eldar raids, and the harsh climates of Cythonia (Luna Wolves homeworld), Medusa and...... ''The Death Guard One'' would be interesting, alongside those of Sanguinus and Khan....


I think a novel about Horus growing up with the Emperor could be interesting. We could see if Horus's secret problems with the Emperor started off a lot earlier, and perhaps see the beginning of the Great Crusade. I imagine the Heresy has some presence there.

Perhaps a novel about the Unification Wars. Learning about Pre-Crusade Terra would be amazing. The Proto-Astartes, the Emperor kicking ass in war. If dont right it would be one of the most epic novels in the HH series.

Other then that i'd only be interested in reading about Konrad Curze's past, it is the most interesting of them all. The Night Haunter bringing justice to the slums of Nostramo, hunting down and killing those who dare trespass against the law, and eventually taking control of the entire planet.


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## Graf Spee

bobss said:


> Yes, you could pull the argument that this would to an extent ''hinder'' the Horus Heresy series, revealing the secrets of the Primarch’s, which are part of the great boon of the series, but still, you could just as easily say that the Heresy novels themselves dash any of mysticism of the ''Legend''.... Not that I am against the Series, hell, it is the highlight of Black Library`s 40k literature...


nicely put. i'm very much with you here. for me it's quite destroying the special feeling 40k had.. nevertheless i'm reading each book..


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## dark angel

The only backgrounds of any Primarch's that I would like to see are:

Jaghatai Khan. Hell, he slaughtered untold ammounts during his campaigns across Chogoris, you are telling me that would not be epic? 

Vulkan, during his times against the Dark Eldar. I would beg Kyme to do this!

Corax and his revolts, I have always been interested in this and with Raven's Flight out, perhaps it will be detailed somewhat in a future Raven Guard novel, if we get one. 

Mortarion. The small snippits on his past are awesome in my opinion, hell the dude drinks poison!

That is about it really. I wouldn't like to read about Curze if I am honest, the Night Lords have always lacked in my mind. Nor would I like anything on Sanguinius, or the Blood Angels at that. World Eaters are not really needed, due to them featuring in the other novels as "background elements". I would enjoy too read about them though, their bloodlust would be epic.


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## Lord of the Night

dark angel said:


> The only backgrounds of any Primarch's that I would like to see are:
> 
> Jaghatai Khan. Hell, he slaughtered untold ammounts during his campaigns across Chogoris, you are telling me that would not be epic?
> 
> Vulkan, during his times against the Dark Eldar. I would beg Kyme to do this!
> 
> Corax and his revolts, I have always been interested in this and with Raven's Flight out, perhaps it will be detailed somewhat in a future Raven Guard novel, if we get one.


I had forgotten about Corax. He would be quite awesome to read about, especially if he owns as much as he did in _Raven's Flight_.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown

Lord of the Night said:


> I had forgotten about Corax. He would be quite awesome to read about, especially if he owns as much as he did in _Raven's Flight_.


I have a lot of love for Corax, which is why I squeezed the Raven Guard into _Cadian Blood_. I get to play with him properly in _The First Heretic_, and it's one of my favourite scenes in the novel.


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## FORTHELION

wow Lorgar, Guilleman and Corax how many primarchs are gonna be in the book?


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## ckcrawford

don't look so surprised theres been quite a few heresy books with more than three primarchs


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## bobss

After a taster of the pure slaughter the Heresy can offer us: -- The gleefully exitable fans -- within Fulgrim, with the Drop-site Massacre emphasising the pure butchery and ''Shit dying'' aspect I so love about the Horus Heresys series, I do believe it is time we discuss the ever-encroaching and yet immesurably distint, apple of the Herey`s eye: The Siege of Terra.

So, what is it to be? A Trilogy within a Series? Penned by Black Libaries greatest whit and talent? I would wish for there to be three, solid, 416 (if not all-out 512) books, with Graham McNeil penning the opening of the Siege with the Iron Warriors, possibly Hoare or Swallow with the counter-attack by the White Scars and the Blood Angels debacle around the Eternity Gate, and the pure finale, between Horus and the Emperor, by Dan Abnett:biggrin:

Possibly another book upon the other Astartes forces reaching Terra after Horus` fall, and the scattering of the Traitor Forces, within an Anthology of Shorts...

Your thoughts, guys?


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## ckcrawford

I'm not sure they will do any post heresy novels as part of the Heresy Series. As in books after Horus is being killed. They probably will make a Siege of Terra trilogy or saga within the Heresy like the first three/four books. Though it would be interesting if they made a "Post Heresy" seperate series, though it probably wont be as interesting.


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## Baron Spikey

I don't know the Scouring would include the introduction of the Codex, the Iron Cage incident and the leaving of 4 Primarchs.


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## World Eater XII

What do you reckon the time scale on getting a HH book on the seige of terra? 5+years?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

World Eater XII said:


> What do you reckon the time scale on getting a HH book on the seige of terra? 5+years?


Considering were getting on average what, about 3 HH Novels a year? - I would say were looking *at least* at another three years. Could well be more though.


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## World Eater XII

Unless they do an offshoot series, so thery can still keep on with the HH happenings and yet carry onto a a time past the seige/reconstruction.


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## Lord of the Night

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> I have a lot of love for Corax, which is why I squeezed the Raven Guard into _Cadian Blood_. I get to play with him properly in _The First Heretic_, and it's one of my favourite scenes in the novel.


Yet another reason to buy _The First Heretic_.


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## Baron Spikey

Story (short if need be) that is definitely required is exactly what happened to Vulkan after Istvaan IV- we know Ferrus died, and we know Corax escaped and rebuilt his Legion but we know bugger all about what happened to the Lord of the Salamanders.


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## Lord of the Night

One must for a short-story should be Leman Russ leaving the Space Wolves with the 13th Company. I hate Russ and his Wolves but i'd still be interested in seeing the final appearance of the Wolf King.


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## TheSaint

I personally can't wait for the Battle of Signus, with one caveat: Please don't let Swallow write it. *Please.*

Now, this might come across as rude or petty even, but for me, certain aspects of his writing style, notably with the Blood Angel series, just completely ruin the immersion for me. You know, the sort of moment where you are reading about some battle, and then something jumps out at you, some word or phrase, and ruins the feeling.
I know Mr. Aaron Dembski-Bowden is out there somewhere. Can't you, like, use your psyker powers to persuade the ones handing out assignments, to give it to someone else?

Please?


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## Dead.Blue.Clown

TheSaint said:


> I personally can't wait for the Battle of Signus, with one caveat: Please don't let Swallow write it. *Please.*
> 
> Now, this might come across as rude or petty even, but for me, certain aspects of his writing style, notably with the Blood Angel series, just completely ruin the immersion for me. You know, the sort of moment where you are reading about some battle, and then something jumps out at you, some word or phrase, and ruins the feeling.
> I know Mr. Aaron Dembski-Bowden is out there somewhere. Can't you, like, use your psyker powers to persuade the ones handing out assignments, to give it to someone else?
> 
> Please?


Jim is almost definitely writing that one, yeah. It's not so much that assignments get handed out, it's more that a lot of stuff is essentially reserved for certain authors - and pretty much have been from the start.


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## World Eater XII

I enjoyed the blood angels books, havent fully caught up on the series though.

In regards to the corax, what happened to him after he rebuilt his legion?


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## Baron Spikey

He took them to War, though I don't think he did much with them until it came to the Scouring- after that theLegions were broken up and Corax left for the Eye of Terror.


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## forkmaster

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> I have a lot of love for Corax, which is why I squeezed the Raven Guard into _Cadian Blood_. I get to play with him properly in _The First Heretic_, and it's one of my favourite scenes in the novel.


The few characters named in the Cadian Blood was loveable. Will there be any connections between Ravens Flight then? Like there were some of Corax's closests captains mention, will you squeeze in some of them too?


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## World Eater XII

Ah so corax did a russ then? seems like a bit of a catch all thing with GW and some of these primarchs....


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## mal310

I would love to see full Death Guard and World Eaters books. So far they have been side parts in other stories and are deserving of the full treatment. In fact I’d love to see all eighteen legions get at least one decent book covering themselves.


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## Brother Subtle

mal310 said:


> I would love to see full *Death Guard* and World Eaters books. So far they have been side parts in other stories and are deserving of the full treatment. In fact I’d love to see all eighteen legions get at least one decent book covering themselves.


ummm have you read FotE?



Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Jim is almost definitely writing that one, yeah. It's not so much that assignments get handed out, it's more that a lot of stuff is essentially reserved for certain authors - and pretty much have been from the start.


i quite like swallows BA characters, (Inquisitor Steele was probably the coolest baddie i have read from a 40k book in fact) i just thought the plot sucked in the dues books. made the BA's look far too gullible. i hope he fixes that in the HH books and doesnt make the BA look like a bunch of dumbasses again.



Lord of the Night said:


> One must for a short-story should be Leman Russ leaving the Space Wolves with the 13th Company. I hate Russ and his Wolves but i'd still be interested in seeing the final appearance of the Wolf King.


wouldnt that be post heresy?



Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> I have a lot of love for Corax, which is why I squeezed the Raven Guard into _Cadian Blood_. I get to play with him properly in _The First Heretic_, and it's one of my favourite scenes in the novel.


ADB, does Corax's 'invisability' from Ravens Flight come into play again? id like to know more on that ability. 
also, does he come with extra emo eyeshadow in First Heretic? and does he have my chemical romance on his ipod when going into battle?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Brother Subtle said:


> ummm have you read FotE?


What I think he meant, was that even _Flight of the Eisenstein_ was not a Death Guard novel, it was essentially the tale of Battle-Captain Garro. The Death Guard featured at the beginning, but I wouldn't class it as a Death Guard novel. 

Something which shed some light on why Mortarion joined Horus (beyond the speculation and minor hints we have at the moment) would be great. And im still hoping for a short story regarding their fall to Nurgle in the Warp, damn Typhus! unish:


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## Barnster

I'm sure the corruption and fall of the of the deathguard will get a book or at minimum a short story. I think we all know the corruption is far deeper than just Typhon. Gulgor was deeply corrupted, same with others. The taint is fairly deep. It would be good if all the legions had a book just for them, the death guard need one, but i imagine they are fairly low priorty as they feature in 4 of the first 5 books.


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## bobss

Barnster said:


> I'm sure the corruption and fall of the of the deathguard will get a book or at minimum a short story. I think we all know the corruption is far deeper than just Typhon. Gulgor was deeply corrupted, same with others. The taint is fairly deep. It would be good if all the legions had a book just for them, the death guard need one, but i imagine they are fairly low priorty as they feature in 4 of the first 5 books.


Grulgor --upon Medusa V -- led a sizable force of Death Guard, as a Daemon Prince of Nurgle, and with several hints from both Flight of the Eisenstein and (courtesy of Dark Angel) James Swallow, I would not be too suprised to see him once more before the Heresy`s climax - Possibly to enact his oath to slay Garro? Maybe upon Terra itself?


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## mal310

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> What I think he meant, was that even _Flight of the Eisenstein_ was not a Death Guard novel, it was essentially the tale of Battle-Captain Garro. The Death Guard featured at the beginning, but I wouldn't class it as a Death Guard novel.
> 
> Something which shed some light on why Mortarion joined Horus (beyond the speculation and minor hints we have at the moment) would be great. And im still hoping for a short story regarding their fall to Nurgle in the Warp, damn Typhus! unish:


Thanks, thats exactly what I meant! :grin: Althought I think that all of the above (why Mortarion joined Horus and their fall to Nurgle in the warp) could possibaly be covered in one big book. This really is a story I want to read.


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## the.alleycat.uk

Hmmm, I tink what you guys are saying is one of the big issues with the HH books... they've chosen to keep the primarchs at arms length [i'm assuming this is deliberate to keep a sence of awe and mystery and because they are meant to be so far above human.]

But I do agree it can be disappointing as it remains incredibly difficult to understand why they rebelled. Even Horus' motivations seem a bit lame [taken in by a fairly thin lie while in a near death state,] and he had three books to cover him.

I for one have been disappointed by the Dark Angels books, they seem to have carried on from what was suggested in Angels of Darkness [by Gav Thorpe] but after two books we really on't have any insight to why the Lion is basically acting like a bit of a douche towards parts of his legion.

Fulgrim and Legion have been the two books which for me both gave some insight into the primarch [and thousand sons but only toward sthe very end of the book.]

So all in all, I can understand why the primarchs are being kept vague but I still find it disappointing that the authors aren't pushing to give across more.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

the.alleycat.uk said:


> Even Horus' motivations seem a bit lame [taken in by a fairly thin lie while in a near death state,] and he had three books to cover him.


I agree in part. If you go back and read _Horus Rising_ and _False Gods_ again you can pick out the many things which seem to alienate Horus from the Emperor and Imperium. But I don't think these were emphasised enough to make it clear the reasons why he ultimately turned. This is the main reason why some people claim Horus turned simply because of the 'Chaos Vision'. But a lot of other reasons are given; His limitless ambition, his own doubts about his own suitibility for the role of Warmaster, his fear about what will happen to him and the Legions following the Great Crusade, the constant competition and dependence on many of his brother Primarchs, the seeming usurped position of the War Council by the Council of Terra, the seeming abandonment at the hands of the Emperor, his feelings that he failed several times since Ullanor (63-19, death of Sejanus, the Interex etc), topped off with the 'revelation' of the Emperor's quest for godhood and visions of the future monotheistic Imperium (im sure others could be included as well).

The reasons are there, I just don't think they were established or emphasised enough.



the.alleycat.uk said:


> I for one have been disappointed by the Dark Angels books, they seem to have carried on from what was suggested in Angels of Darkness [by Gav Thorpe] but after two books we really on't have any insight to why the Lion is basically acting like a bit of a douche towards parts of his legion.
> 
> Fulgrim and Legion have been the two books which for me both gave some insight into the primarch [and thousand sons but only toward sthe very end of the book.]
> 
> So all in all, I can understand why the primarchs are being kept vague but I still find it disappointing that the authors aren't pushing to give across more.


Again, I agree in part. But as you said, its important to keep the Primarchs at arm length to maintain their level of mystery, persona and legend status. Its also true that we have no solid reasons for why several of the Primarchs (and indeed the Emperor moreso) acted as they did. We don't have any clear reasons for Jonson's banishment of Luther, or Mortarion's betrayal of the Imperium as examples. But this does keep the mystery surrounding the Primarchs intact and keeps up the level of interest and debate.


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## the.alleycat.uk

Yeah, true, as I said; I do understand why but... but

If you read another book and the major protagonists moives remained unclear you'd feel the book was lacking. Now in a series you'd allow it on the basis that it would eventually be paid off and become clear...

I think the expectation is that the HH should do the same but with the HH there doesn't seem to be a clear end point and so it remains disappointing to a degree. So long as the individual book is a good, this is a moot point [again I give legion as an example, we know enough of what's happening with Alpharius for the book to make sence within the plot given.]

However some books leave me feeling that they were a little contrived due to the lack of depth given to the primarch and his motives/reasoning.


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## bobss

the.alleycat.uk said:


> Yeah, true, as I said; I do understand why but... but
> 
> If you read another book and the major protagonists moives remained unclear you'd feel the book was lacking. Now in a series you'd allow it on the basis that it would eventually be paid off and become clear...
> 
> I think the expectation is that the HH should do the same but with the HH there doesn't seem to be a clear end point and so it remains disappointing to a degree. So long as the individual book is a good, this is a moot point [again I give legion as an example, we know enough of what's happening with Alpharius for the book to make sence within the plot given.]
> 
> However some books leave me feeling that they were a little contrived due to the lack of depth given to the primarch and his motives/reasoning.


I don`t feel that Horus turning from the light of the Emperor was portrayed badly at all. In False Gods, whilst Horus was in his Anathame-induced stupour he seemed prevailant throughout, neither rejecting nor outright heeding either Magnus` caution or Erebus` slander. Simply, Horus Lupercal is not your classical antagonist. He does not have a twirled mustache, nor does he enjoy wearing a top-hat. Nay, that is more Lorgar and his Legion`s thing. The bedrock of Horus` emnity towards his Father was both his inability to suffice the role of Warmaster (Hence the failure of the Interex) and the Emperor`s ''abandonment'' as he left for Terra. Horus merely loathed his father for this, and believed he, himself was the true ruler of mankind. He does not want the utter destruction of mankind, or throw himself at the Dark God`s feet; his disdain of Daemons in both Galaxy in Flames, Fulgrim (and Nemesis I do believe) obvious to this. 

Simply, Horus did not fall to Chaos and embrace it like a zealot. Instead he used the united forces of the Ruinous Power`s to launch his ''Crusade'' against --what he believed-- was the ever-corrupt Imperium. Horus believed what he did was brimmed with righteousness. And thus, I --myself-- feel his subuded ''fall'' within the Daphelos upon Davin is expertly crafted, showing Horus not as a blood-hungering, humaninty-hating fiend, but as a Primarch in distress at his Father`s abandonment and a passionate desire to ursurp him.

My two-cents, Bobss


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