# Space Marine Tactics when playing Chaos (marines)



## spinner5555 (Feb 12, 2009)

Ok, now when playing Chaos you have to be careful of many things:
#1 Daemon Princes, do not place anything within movement, psychic, and close combat attacks. I made a huge mistake a week ago by infiltrating some scouts in a building and on the 1st turn the daemon prince jumped then charged the scouts and took them all of them:ireful2:. Anyway stay back and shoot them up (devestator squads are great for that).
#2 Khorne Berzerkers, they are troop choices and with Kharne (Carne? Berzerker special character) they can be devestating. The trick is that when they are in charging range always charge them. It might sound suicidal but if they charge you they get will get +1 attack and furious charge and with all their cool weapons they will decimate you. On the other hand, when you attack when you charge them you get extra attacks and with a ten man squad charging 8 berzerkers they get 22 attacks and they can't make all those armour saves. Finnaly when Kharne (Carne?) attacks and he rolls ones berzerkers get wounded (love it when that happens:mrgreen.
#3 They are afraid of dreadnoughts, if there are a squad of marines, shoot them with an assualt cannon and storm bolter (great combination), chaos vehicles will get popped by the lascannons and smacked by a close combat arm. I recommend taking one whenever you play.

I hope this helps all these space marine players like me out there.
FOR THE EMPEROR!!!


----------



## battleboy17 (Feb 13, 2009)

For The Emperor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Trandoshanjake (Jul 22, 2008)

1. Daemon Princes move FAST, so don't count on them not reaching you.

2. Zerkers will still beat you in CC, even if they don't get the charge, with 3 attacks a piece @ ws5.

3. I am not afraid of dreadnoughts, defilers kick the tar out of them. (So do our dreadnoughts, but they can go batshit occasionally.)


----------



## Marshal Balian (Apr 25, 2008)

The charge is important against any army not just against Khorne Berzerkers (but it is important). Also you need to know what you are going to sacrifice to the blood god if you choose to charge zerkers. Not that they always win when you charge them (my BT Crusader sqauds eat Zerkers for lunch). But you need to ensure that you have a follow up to clean them up if you lose.


----------



## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

4th ed my commander and veteren squad was my anti zerkers funniest game

zerkers and demon prince he ran his demon prince from them i charged zerks killed them all but hhe popped my rhino meanwhile his prince was on my tact squad holding objective lol he couldn't hurt them to save his life in 2 turns he killed 3 which was enough time for me vets to come over kick its arse. yeah they had furious charge.


now but my chaplin and assualt squad do the job against my mate they always take out a 30 man ork squad every game he hates them i have that many game trophies as has my nob slaying dread.


----------



## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

Me and a friend had a 1500pt battle yesterday. he deployed his bezerkers in a rhino and as soon as they got out, i mini-pie plated them courtesy of my vindicator. should have seen his mortified face when he realised id kiled 6 zerkers in one turn. him taking them oiff the board was priceless. lololol


----------



## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Oooh yeah, sweet apple pie!


----------



## scruff (Mar 3, 2008)

1 - Daemon Princes? You don't seem to mention the other killy HQ choices - like, ALL of them. Sure, Winged Princes with Warptime are DEADLY, but what about that Khorne Chaos Lord with Wings who has joined the Raptors back there? What about this Daemon Weapon?
Oh no, you killed my 'Daemon Apostle', well its too bad i've got someone else to bear the word - this lord's fist!

2 - First of all, Kharn will grind your forces to mush whether he gets the charge or not. Seriously, he rocks in close combat - even if he goes blood crazy and hits his own swuad with a Power Weapon on a 1. Next, any good Khorne player will leave his forces in a place which will take off your numerical advantage, such as a Building. Even then, he will have the reinforcements right behind them, who are prepared to counter charge later. Kill them in 1 turn of combat or FAIL. Even worse would be charging my unit of Berserkers with 2 Icons. Why two? Well, it means you get a better summoning arc - you will have Daemons on two sides of you, meaning that when we get to the destructive round 2, you WILL die. Remember that Lesser Daemons charge on the turn they deep strike
And even then, you need to hope that I don't have my 100pt Greater Daemon ready for sacrficing. You get MUSHED then!

3 - Dreadnoughts? Thats what we have Chosen/Havocs/Possessed/Raptors/Spawn/Bikes/EVERYTHING IN OUR ARMY for


----------



## Might of the Emperor (Feb 1, 2009)

Plasma cannons are helpful. So are transports, so you can drive up, shoot, and stay the HELL away from any chaos troops, especially berzerkers. Any close combat battle with them is a losing one. And like someone said, vindicators also are helpful. You can try assault terminators, but dont forget the furious charge and higher weapon skill of the berzerkers. Not too much else we really have the edge on. Its quite frustrating to be honest.


----------



## LimitingFactor (Jan 11, 2009)

My bezerkers will almost allways be backed up by havoks with close combat weapons, the mark of khorne and 4 assault guns (meltas and flamers because they dont overheat). 

i have a daemon prince but im not convinced i should use him just yet , prefering the idea of khorne champions in terminator armour, with a mark of khorne and a mix of close combat stuff and flamers/twin linked bolters.

i have not played a single game in 5th edition...i have one due soon against tau.
I played 2nd and 3rd generation rules and i found that in games against the nasty eldar ; that avatars were easy to kill using terminators armed with assault cannons. I suspect that the same thing will happen to my daemon prince should i be tempted to use him in the fight against tau .....he is so big and bad looking ...like a leman russ tank , that he will become a magnet for every shooty weapon the enemy can turn upon him.

so i think your best bet against armies like my own would be to field kill squads , armed with rapid fire guns... deploy forward at the start of a game wait for enemy to move at them and then fall back while focusing firepower at the biggest threats , one at a time until you have killed or pinned them. only then should you consider closing in for a kill in close combat.

one more thing ...keep an eye out for icons of chaos... these squads are there to tempt you into closing with them...should you fall for this the trap will be sprung and you will find yourself under attack from deep striking, nasties that do not scatter on arrival.


----------



## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

Lucky that chaos can't get assault cannons anymore (Starts sobbing)


----------



## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

'kay let's help out this strategy.

As you play loyalist marines, you start the game off by having less points than a good-planned chaos army will(Your stuff costs too much), so it's uphill to start with.



scruff said:


> 1 - Daemon Princes? You don't seem to mention the other killy HQ choices - like, ALL of them. Sure, Winged Princes with Warptime are DEADLY, but what about that Khorne Chaos Lord with Wings who has joined the Raptors back there? What about this Daemon Weapon?
> Oh no, you killed my 'Daemon Apostle', well its too bad i've got someone else to bear the word - this lord's fist!


What about chaos loads?

Bare the word without eternal warrior? Awesome face dot jaypeg. Eat a DCCW and he's dead. 
Actually we can play this out fairly easy.
One third of the time, the chaos lord hurts himself, two thirds of the time he can't touch wraithlords or most walkers.(S/T 4 is inexcusable for a being of hate that has survived a millenia of war and traitors)
With a 5+ invul save he's going to die like a bitch. Nobody takes chaos lords and if you see one, you can know that your opponent wasted a ton of points on a bad unit.

You won't see named IC's unless it's Kharn because they all suck.

Plan for lashing/warptime princes.(Either or)



scruff said:


> 2 - First of all, Kharn will grind your forces to mush whether he gets the charge or not. Seriously, he rocks in close combat - even if he goes blood crazy and hits his own swuad with a Power Weapon on a 1. Next, any good Khorne player will leave his forces in a place which will take off your numerical advantage, such as a Building. Even then, he will have the reinforcements right behind them, who are prepared to counter charge later. Kill them in 1 turn of combat or FAIL. Even worse would be charging my unit of Berserkers with 2 Icons. Why two? Well, it means you get a better summoning arc - you will have Daemons on two sides of you, meaning that when we get to the destructive round 2, you WILL die. Remember that Lesser Daemons charge on the turn they deep strike
> And even then, you need to hope that I don't have my 100pt Greater Daemon ready for sacrficing. You get MUSHED then!


A good khorne player has a lash prince draw people towards his zerks. Or his zerks in mobile coffins(Thirty five points? Are you kidding?)

And one unit cannot take two icons. Lesser daemons are shit. 

"Oh good, I'm in a multicombat with t4 5+ 2a's. I know who I'm targetting."
And the greater daemon is -okay- at best. You still have to pop a zerk champ(Who's incidentally, better at combat), and waste at minimum 60 points for each champ.

And please do sit in a building waiting for templar. That's adorable.




scruff said:


> 3 - Dreadnoughts? Thats what we have Chosen/Havocs/Possessed/Raptors/Spawn/Bikes/EVERYTHING IN OUR ARMY for


Every single one of those choices, minus the chosen, are awful.
For space marine players:
Plan around chaos elites being five man chosen, and the heavy support being obliterators. So keep your tanks away from the sides, and bring s8+ weapons for oblits.



Asmodeun said:


> Lucky that chaos can't get assault cannons anymore (Starts sobbing)


Or a new flavorful codex anymore. Zing.




LimitingFactor said:


> My bezerkers will almost allways be backed up by havoks with close combat weapons, the mark of khorne and 4 assault guns (meltas and flamers because they dont overheat).


MoK does not belong on a unit dedicated to shooting.



LimitingFactor said:


> i have a daemon prince but im not convinced i should use him just yet , prefering the idea of khorne champions in terminator armour, with a mark of khorne and a mix of close combat stuff and flamers/twin linked bolters.


You mean of chaos lords with a slather of red paint?

You'd be better off with DP's. Faster, more useful, and don't die.



LimitingFactor said:


> i have not played a single game in 5th edition...i have one due soon against tau.
> I played 2nd and 3rd generation rules


I'm confused how advice from that far back is still relevant. The chaos army of today doesn't play anything like back than and tactics have changed..alot.

I guess for general "Shoot bad things with big gun" works.



LimitingFactor said:


> one more thing ...keep an eye out for icons of chaos... these squads are there to tempt you into closing with them...should you fall for this the trap will be sprung and you will find yourself under attack from deep striking, nasties that do not scatter on arrival.


Sadly? Your average marine squad can easily deal with these gimped nasties, usually without losing a guy if you assault correctly(Get into cover).

Nine tac marines+Sarge(Without even a PW, these go first because Lesser daemons don't have grenades)
12A-6H-3W-1SV(two dead)

Minimum nasty squad 3 guys(no grenades, squads larger than 5 invite disaster)
9A-4.5H-2.2W-1.4Sv(.6 dead)

So now the daemon takes two fearless saves and will probably fail another one. Next turn you wipe out the easy kp with a squad that was NEVER meant to be in assault.


----------



## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

I wouldn't say that chaos lords suck. I could wish for them to be better, but I've used mine to great effect every time that he plays. Sure, he dies, but he takes a lot of loyalist scum with him, and I personally enjoy a game where the evilest dude of all bites the bullet, even if he happens to be my evil dude.


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I have a Termie Khorn Lord with Daemon Weapon that (most of the time) gets a average of 8-14 Attacks with a Power Weapon. All for 145 pts. Not bad at all as I raped entire GK squads and termie Squads with this dude and 4 Termies with Mok and pair of L. Claws. Sure they cant do much against WraithLords or Tanks, but thats what my Vidis, Raiders, and Melta Gun Equip Marines are for. Seriously I take a Termie Khorn Lord with Blood Feeder over a DP with Warp Time. Any day. Hes a Smaller target, transportable, join squads, and eats entire squads with a WS and Int that beats most other units. Hes [email protected]$$. Plain and simple.


----------



## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> I have a Termie Khorn Lord with Daemon Weapon that (most of the time) gets a average of 8-14 Attacks with a Power Weapon. All for 145 pts. Not bad at all as I raped entire GK squads and termie Squads with this dude and 4 Termies with Mok and pair of L. Claws. Sure they cant do much against WraithLords or Tanks, but thats what my Vidis, Raiders, and Melta Gun Equip Marines are for. Seriously I take a Termie Khorn Lord with Blood Feeder over a DP with Warp Time. Any day. Hes a Smaller target, transportable, join squads, and eats entire squads with a WS and Int that beats most other units. Hes [email protected]$$. Plain and simple.


It'd be great if we could outright ignore his shortcomings. Like for instance, one third of ALL his CC phases he hurts himself, and kills nobody.

Also their's the fact that if he doesn't kill all ten marines, the powerfist guy will most likely squash him like the poorly written bug he is. He's a gamble that doesn't pay off enough for him to be worth the initial investment, not to mention he lacks the threat radius of the prince and the psychic powers.

Also the prince has a higher WS and usually better I(due to lash)


----------



## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

Khorne lord on juggernaught. Thats my HQ. Took out a squad of BA assault marines in one turn. Then destoyed a dreadnaught with his higher initiative, using meltabombs. Then the drop pod that it came out of.

Could just be that I'm the Chosen Of The Dice Gods, but I think otherwise.



> Or a new flavorful codex anymore. Zing.


Oh, and leave me to my misery


----------



## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

There is only one solution to your marines vs chaos problem - play other army, marines fail :S


----------

