# Daemon Princes: Tzeentch or Nurgle?



## Meat_Cleaver (Oct 24, 2012)

Both Tzeentch and Nurgle seem to be popular DP choices for daemon and CSM armies. This makes sense since both of them have extra defensive capabilities. I'm trying to figure which one is better to use in a competitive all comers list. 

The Tzeentch daemon seems better against small arms fire. It also works better for close combat compared to Nurgle. Tzeentch DPs from the the daemon book also have access to the Staff of Change, but having the option to Smash the staff might not be necessary. The Tzeentch CSM powers also seem too be slightly better than the Nurgle ones. This kinda makes up for the CSM DPs having to get a power from the CSM book if they want to be a psyker. 

The Nurgle DP seems better suited against low AP weapons. Being able to have a 3+ cover save is nice, but it can't always be relied on. It's also has Slow and Purposeful. 

Anyway, I'm not really sure which one to use. What do you think is the best one?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Tzeentch - the inability to Sweep in combat is crippling for the Nurgle Prince, and to be honest the defence you get isn't usually that much better.

The Tzeentch CSM powers are crap except Doombolt. You might, might get use out of Gift as you can't get Boons already and something like +1 Armour Save really compensates for the Prince's weaknesses, but Firestorm and Breath are both pretty crappy compared to taking the roll on Telepathy (or, for Daemons, Divination).

Midnight


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

I must say that the CSM Tzeentch powers are the worst ever psy-power list. Nurgle is more reliable and effective (not always a witchfire is better than a curse...)
The tzeentch power to reroll 1's is worse than a cover save. That is, of course, if you are going to use the Prince as it is meant to be used: flying, with psy powers or burning brand and flying iver units for d3+1 Str 6 attacks.
Any other use is not point-effective imo.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

From a daemon viewpoint slaanesh princes are my favorite. Taking ml3 biomancy powers in conjunction with lash of despair gives you 2d6 str 6-9 hits that can be used on rear armor if fliers and vehicles alike. Iron arm and endurance will increase the strength and give you an absolute killing machine. Nurgle and tzeentch also have access to biomancy, but the lash is slaanesh only, and arguably the best AA in the entire codex.


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

From a CSM standpoint (don't know the deamons version) I would personally go Tzeentch level 3 and only go for the 1 power that you have to take on Tzeentch, while the Nurgle powers are good, the Nurgle prince is just too slow to get in range with its powers (as they are either short range or require some sort of offensive attack like Gift of contagion that the prince can only do if it gets into CC).

While some would argue that shrouded makes the nurgle prince one tough cookie, why are you keeping a prince behind cover? Princes are offensive units so should be heading advancing so the Tzeentch prince its much better in this regard as while re-rolling 1s isn't great it can still get up the board quickly and most importantly sweeping advance


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

falcoso said:


> While some would argue that shrouded makes the nurgle prince one tough cookie, why are you keeping a prince behind cover? Princes are offensive units so should be heading advancing so the Tzeentch prince its much better in this regard as while re-rolling 1s isn't great it can still get up the board quickly and most importantly sweeping advance


Because it's 6th edition, MCs get cover in area terrain. You give the Nurgle Prince Wings and park his big fat butt in a crater or some rocks or behind a single tree for 3+ cover.



neferhet said:


> The tzeentch power to reroll 1's is worse than a cover save. That is, of course, if you are going to use the Prince as it is meant to be used: flying, with psy powers or burning brand and flying iver units for d3+1 Str 6 attacks.
> Any other use is not point-effective imo.


So... why are you not taking a Heldrake?

You need to be using that statline and those combat abilities.

Midnight


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

The DP can switch into hover mode and survive, when he is in the right position. Having a beast like this that begins to lay waste your lines late game is much appreciated. I would say that a flying nurgle dp with brand can complemewnt very well 2 heldrakes in the first 3 turns and then switch into hover, to crush enemyies in cc, always relying on his "shrouded" usr and cover to survive retaliation from shooting. A tzeentch dp is equally effective in damage output, but farl less survivable, due to the lack of bonus cover, imo. Moreover, a dp relying on psy powers to do damage should always take into account a perils of the warp accident or some deny the witch. You cannot deny a burning brand...


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

MidnightSun said:


> Because it's 6th edition, MCs get cover in area terrain. You give the Nurgle Prince Wings and park his big fat butt in a crater or some rocks or behind a single tree for 3+ cover.
> 
> Midnight


Fair enough but then you aren't taking advantage of the wings as you would only be in area terrain for a turn if you are gliding, or you are waiting for a unit to come to you to assault unless the terrain is sense enough to leap to


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

In a Daemons list (or with Allied CSM/ CSM with Allied Daemons), I like to grab a Grimoire and go with a Tzeentchi prince, thanks for the opportunity to get a 3++ save rerolling 1s--a save almost as good as a 2++. If Fateweaver's in play, you can reroll a failed Grimoire...and Fateweaver is eligible for a rerollable 2++. *drool*

(Minor points of Grimoire: keep in mind you can only Grimoire 1 MC/squad/daemon engine per turn, and that the bearer gains no benefit for it)


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