# Humans and Tau: Possible Outcomes ?



## Jeanms_247 (Mar 3, 2010)

Well, The Tau and humanity have a had an interesting (read: Bloody and genocidal) past, but there have been a lot of documented cases where they worked together. On some worlds on the edge of Imperial space, their presence is often allowed by governors who trade with them and everything. 
Now, seeing as how they are expanding while the Imperium is dying, what are some possible outcomes that could come from a diplomatic relationship?
And at that, I want to mention the Eldar, what have their dealings with the Tau been ?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

The imperium is not really dying in my opinion, it's just a stalemate empire, neither prospering or diminishing.

They're all about perseverance in the face of adversity while the Tau can be argued as prospering faster and faster.

They're the imperium 2.0

My 2 cents.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

the imperium does not care about diplomacy with allies, they will stay allies for as long as it benefits them, as soon as that benefit reaches its highest peak diplomacy changes from ally to enemy and guns are pointed towards them.

there have and can be exceptions of course but its most likely covered up, but if higher ups found out in full detail there would be hell to pay.

the imperium is a greedy hate filled xenophobic backwater corrupt thing, and will step on anyone and do anything to gain power and instantly cover it all up to avoid punishment, anything as simple as a rogue trader trading illegal xenos tech to system wide alliances.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

It's the same as any Imperial-xeno relationship.

If the Tau get too frisky, the Imperium will turn around and keep them in their place. Otherwise, the Imperium will draw a line in the sand and hope the Tau don't pass too far across it. 

Considering how aggressive the Tau are, I don't imagine anything positive coming out this. If the Tau were treated like any other alien species (therefore minus plot armor), the Imperium probably would overrun them in a crusade lasting many centuries.

For now, the Tau haven't passed the new line in the sand the Imperium has written.


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## Blind (Jan 24, 2010)

I dont completely agree with the Imperium 2.0 notion. Their belief in the Greater Good makes them set higher standards and leaves room for diplomacy. They actually try to negotiate and convert others to their belief before crushing them, hence thier alien auxiliaries. The Imperium on the other hand just wants material wealth and could care less about negotiation.

I do see an issue between the two, with the Tau trying to expand and the Imperium becoming annoyed with them. In the end I think the Imperium will lose more area than the Tau, just because the Tau will be much more focused, while the Imperium with find it minor and hold less value for a couple planets.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

How are they Imperium 2.0? Beyond the fact that both are aggressively expansive empires?

Plus keep in mind that the Tau have very limited warp travel abilities. They can not hope to span the galaxy like the Imperium does.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

The Emperor proclaimed the manifest destiny of Mankind to be the sole master of the Stars. The Tau disagree with this, therefore they will be destroyed in the Emperor's name. That said...

The Tau have not problem incorporating humans into their empire. If the Tau continue to grow in technology and strength then they will become an attractive alternative to the Imperium. As the Tau gains strength the fear of Inquisitorial retribution for defection will wane. More and more worlds will see their future best lies in the Greater Good.

There are A LOT more humans in the galaxy then their are Tau. Ian Watson's Inquisition war actually says that for all the death and war humanity suffers every year the birthrate in the Imperium is higher then the deathrate.

I think I read somewhere that their are less then 10,000 worlds in the Tau Empire. That is less then 1% of the Imperium. In a war of attrition the Imperium will win. But Imagine if planetary governors start seeing the Tau Empire as an alternative to the Imperium then the Tau will get the manpower it needs to defend itself indefinitely. The Tau Empire would quickly become a human empire, a federation of races working together for the betterment of all its members with humanity at its center (sound familiar?).

The one big problem with that scenario is that the Tau have no idea how to deal with a domestic psyker problem. The Imperium with its Litany of Hate knows what to do with these potential daemon gates, How are the Tau going to deal with their citizens being possessed by Warp Spawn? Its entirely possible that the Tau will find a solution to the psyker problem in a way that the Imperium never could. Or a daemonic invasion will kill them all. 

This Federation would probably have huge drawing power and will grow exponentially. This is all assuming the Tau are ok with their Empire's massive demographic shift. But faced between an endless war with the behemoth Imperium and Co-opting its population they might be ok with being relegated to a smaller role in the Federation if it means survival.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

The Tau space numbers for a few hundred systems, per their codex. Habitable worlds is probably significantly less than this. In terms of "full" planets, it only has 20. This doesn't include the various alien homeworlds that have been absorbed the Tau.

The problem with Tau, is that unlike the Star Trek Federation, it isn't an equal opportunity empire. First there are Tau, then everyone else.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

hailene said:


> The Tau space numbers for a few hundred systems, per their codex. Habitable worlds is probably significantly less than this. In terms of "full" planets, it only has 20. This doesn't include the various alien homeworlds that have been absorbed the Tau.
> 
> The problem with Tau, is that unlike the Star Trek Federation, it isn't an equal opportunity empire. First there are Tau, then everyone else.


That is true...at the moment. But if the Tau Empire is as small as you say then they are doomed to extinction. Maybe not soon, maybe not for a thousand years. But one day the Emperor's armies will crush them. Faced between extinction and life in a human dominated empire of their own making I think the Tau would gladly prop up a human-Tau empire.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I don't see any supporting evidence for this Human-Tau Empire. Care to supply some canon that would support this thesis?


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> the imperium does not care about diplomacy with allies, they will stay allies for as long as it benefits them, as soon as that benefit reaches its highest peak diplomacy changes from ally to enemy and guns are pointed towards them.
> 
> there have and can be exceptions of course but its most likely covered up, but if higher ups found out in full detail there would be hell to pay.
> 
> the imperium is a greedy hate filled xenophobic backwater corrupt thing, and will step on anyone and do anything to gain power and instantly cover it all up to avoid punishment, anything as simple as a rogue trader trading illegal xenos tech to system wide alliances.


I absolutely agree here. The Tau are the "upstart" race. Often being referred to as "those upstart Tau." The Imperium could crush the Tau with a single crusade, however lack the time whilst entangled with more pressing matters. Once the Imperium can work a free day into their schedule, the Tau will cease to exist. up to now, i think the Imperium hasn't cared enough to stamp out their futile existence. The only reason the Tau have prospered as a race is that the Imperium has simply allowed them to exist by their indifference.

CP


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Commissar Ploss said:


> Once the Imperium can work a free day into their schedule, the Tau will cease to exist. up to now, i think the Imperium hasn't cared enough to stamp out their futile existence. The only reason the Tau have prospered as a race is that the Imperium has simply allowed them to exist by their indifference.
> 
> CP


I agree with you...up to a point. The Imperium has a long history of Xenophobia. But keep in mind that space is vast. They can't afford to destroy every alien race. The Tau, in the grand scheme of things, is a minor race. Even with sufficient numbers (which the Tau do not have), they could not threaten the core worlds of the Imperium by virtue of their limited warp drive. The Tau aren't particularly vicious nor destructive. I would hazard an aggressive containment of the Tau Empire would probably be the strongest reponse by the Imperium. Not unless the Milky Way empties of the truly nasty (Tyranid, Ork, Chaos) threats. Heaven forbid if the Necrons wake up in any serious number.

Unless the Tau becomes some tangible threat to the Imperium, I doubt they'd be wiped out.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Commissar Ploss said:


> I absolutely agree here. The Tau are the "upstart" race. Often being referred to as "those upstart Tau." The Imperium could crush the Tau with a single crusade, however lack the time whilst entangled with more pressing matters. Once the Imperium can work a free day into their schedule, the Tau will cease to exist. up to now, i think the Imperium hasn't cared enough to stamp out their futile existence. The only reason the Tau have prospered as a race is that the Imperium has simply allowed them to exist by their indifference.
> 
> CP


It would not be that easy to wipe them out, its not like they are retaking worlds that were just lost from chaos; theses worlds are heavily fortified and defended. The imperium would lose millions, possibly more, in the fighting. Although, in the end, they would win and the Tau would be wiped from the face of the universe. BUT the potential losses would outweigh the gains imo so I doubt they would ever mount a full scale invasion of the Tau Empire.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

hailene said:


> How are they Imperium 2.0? Beyond the fact that both are aggressively expansive empires?
> 
> Plus keep in mind that the Tau have very limited warp travel abilities. They can not hope to span the galaxy like the Imperium does.


Their rate of progressive technology makes up for any inadequacies they may currently have, as with time, they will eventually catch up and surpass the imperium (IE. get new tech such as warp travel, etc.)


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Their rate of progressive technology makes up for any inadequacies they may currently have, as with time, they will eventually catch up and surpass the imperium (IE. get new tech such as warp travel, etc.)


As far as tech goes they have surpassed the imperium. They already developed warp travel I believe, however, they do not possess any connection to the warp so they will never be able to travel the warp with the speed of the imperium. As it stands they can only do short jumps in and out of the warp. I could be wrong though.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Their rate of progressive technology makes up for any inadequacies they may currently have, as with time, they will eventually catch up and surpass the imperium (IE. get new tech such as warp travel, etc.)


It would be tough for them to overcome their warp inadequacies.

The only two known factions that have galaxy-spanning abilities without using the warp directly are the Eldar and the Necrons. The Eladar were gifted the webways by the Old Ones. Even the Eldar have forgotten the means of extending the Webway.

Necron technology is simply far and away the most advanced technology in the known galaxy. The idea the Tau would build something comparable reasonably soon is hard to swallow.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well, as far as their evolution is concerned, they progress at an astounding rate. As a race they are only 2000 years old, so it would seem that, given another thousand years or so, they could advance to be something close to the necrons. However, they would be decimated by the sheer numbers of the imperium before they became such a large threat.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

History has shown us that the Imperium will stop at nothing to quell an emerging threat, throwing countless lives at an objective simply to crush it and move on. Condemning thousands of people to death just for the sake of an acre of land.

And when i say more pressing matters...must i remind you of the threat that lurks within the Ghoul Stars. The Death Spectres are going to need some help reeeeeal soon if you ask me.

CP


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

That's assuming the imperium are not kept busy in the meantime or that they become aware of the tau's technology, they could probably create something that prevents any scans/psycher spies from checking up on them.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

so now we're dreaming up some sort of anti-psyker tech!? Please, work on your warp capabilities before that!

CP


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

TBH I don't think the imperium will have to deal with them..... in fact they probably shouldn't. Tyranid meat shield me thinks?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Commissar Ploss said:


> so now we're dreaming up some sort of anti-psyker tech!? Please, work on your warp capabilities before that!
> 
> CP


--------------------------



gen.ahab said:


> As a race they are only 2000 years old, so it would seem that, given another thousand years or so, they could advance to be something close to the necrons.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> TBH I don't think the imperium will have to deal with them..... in fact they probably shouldn't. Tyranid meat shield me thinks?


Yeah that's what I was thinking, the imperium would be too busy dealing the massive tyranid fleet en route to the galaxy they're housed in and a whole lot of things are coming back/going to be bugging the imperium in that time.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Malus Darkblade said:


> --------------------------


no offense meant, just exclaiming.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

I still say there is something that needs to be done when it comes to the Ghoul Stars. Mostly overlooked by the rest of current GW canon, it is a very wicked scenario. and yes the tyranids as well...*cough* they need work.

CP


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Commissar Ploss said:


> no offense meant, just exclaiming.


Huh? I put ---- to count as the 10 word limit thing since I just posted ahab's quote as my answer to your question.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

lol i see

CP


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## Jeanms_247 (Mar 3, 2010)

What are the ghoul stars ? I don't think I've ever heard them mentioned previously


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

the Ghoul Stars are a region of space watched over by the Death Spectres Space Marines. they are home to creatures called the Cythor Fiends. Vampire like creatures. High marshal Helbrecht led a crusade against them and when he reached their home worlds they were empty, he then got a request for help from armageddon so he promptly left.There isn't really much more to be known, except that there are whispers of future books and background fluff regarding the Ghoul Stars from deep within BL publishing. Located on the fringes of the Ultima Segmentum. 

CP


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Forgive me but how is that such a pressing issue? What threat do they present to the empire?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Forgive me but how is that such a pressing issue? What threat do they present to the empire?


They are shape shifters and capable/already have infiltrated higher echelons of society into positions of power.

Also the Death Specters apparently want to prevent the Tyranids from going over there and absorbing their shapeshifting powers for obvious reasons.

The Ghoul Star system is also apparently the oldest area of the galaxy and full with crazy aliens.

Also they were just in the way of their expeditionary fleet.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

hailene said:


> I don't see any supporting evidence for this Human-Tau Empire. Care to supply some canon that would support this thesis?


Gue'vasa. The humanity already makes up a significant portion of the Empire.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

To be honest I don't think a Human/Tau Empire is every likely to happen. Mainly because I think the Tau don't have much longer as a species. Sure they have high tech weaponry but their lack of warp drive is a crippling weakness to them ever being a really major player in the galaxy. 
Not to mention the fact that the Tyranids are crawling up their backsides and when it comes to the bugs I believe that the Imperium's philosophy of "Guns.. LOTS of Guns" will win out over the Tau outlook of "A few really good guns." 

On the Tau's side I don't think they would ever really want to incorporate humanity into their empire. Since that would mean they would be outnumbered in their own society by a bunch of fighting mad psyker capable monkeys. That just spells uprising.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

GabrialSagan said:


> Gue'vasa. The humanity already makes up a significant portion of the Empire.


You misunderstand. There are humans within the Tau Empire. There is no Human-Tau Empire.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

The T'au are the one faction in the 40K universe open to alternate philosophies, even if they view them as innately inferior to the Greater Good. So as long as the Imperium keeps its anti-xeno policy (and they will keep it to the bitter end), a true alliance between the two races is impossible, because nobody wants to be buddies with people who are religiously and politically obligated to shoot you. If the Imperium continues to decline and the T'au continue to expand to the point where the T'au surpass the Imperium, I can see the Imperium dying and having its useful bits absorbed into the greater good.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

K3k3000 said:


> The T'au are the one faction in the 40K universe open to alternate philosophies, even if they view them as innately inferior to the Greater Good. So as long as the Imperium keeps its anti-xeno policy (and they will keep it to the bitter end), a true alliance between the two races is impossible, because nobody wants to be buddies with people who are religiously and politically obligated to shoot you. If the Imperium continues to decline and the T'au continue to expand to the point where the T'au surpass the Imperium, I can see the Imperium dying and having its useful bits absorbed into the greater good.


Impossible, the imperium would destroy the Tau long before such an event would take place. Once the Tau become a credible threat or at such a time the imperium perceives them as such they will be destroyed.


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

In the Dawn of War game, if you win as Tau the end clip talks of culling the humans on Kronus.

discuss


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

the DoW series isn't official GW canon. A made up story with a Made up Chapter. Particularly stupid if you ask me.

CP


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Actually, I was under the impression that absolutly anything stamped with a Warhammer logo (including Dawn of War, Sabertooth games etc) is canon. Well thats if you want to consider it canon, remembering that everything and nothing is officially canon 

As for a possible diplomatic alliance between the Tau Empire and the Terran Imperium, I can't see that happening at all. An alliance of convienience (effectively just being an unofficial ceasefire) is about as far as it would go.

In terms of Tau Technology, they havn't yet surpassed the Imperium's technological capabilites - although are fast approaching it and will soon surpass it. Although Dark Age technology of mankind is so much more advanced than anything the Tau can muster currently.

And as for the Imperium's capability of destroying the Tau Empire, it is both possible and impossible in the current timeline (999.M41.) - In the sense that the Imperium is capable of mustering the arms needed to destroy the Tau Empire, but they are faced with much more pressing concerns (Black Crusades, Waaaghs!, Hive Fleets etc) therefore meaning that any atttempt to entirely crush the Tau Empire would be irrational (the Damocles Crusade is a prime example of this).


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Impossible, the imperium would destroy the Tau long before such an event would take place. Once the Tau become a credible threat or at such a time the imperium perceives them as such they will be destroyed.


The Imperium percieves all xenos as threats and its track record of destroying the big ones (t'au, eldar, and orks) have been less than stellar. The Imperium is likely completely incapable of amassing enough man and firepower to destroy the t'au without destroying themselves. That is to say, the resources, energy, and numbers required to destroy the t'au are likely being spent keeping orks and chaos at bay, and removing them to wipe out a well-meaning, mostly passive alien race would be suicidal and completely moronic. If they were capable of comitting genocide on the t'au there wouldn't be anything holding them back from doing so.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Just a reminder- it's Tau not T'au, T'au is their homeworld.


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## Thousandth Son (Jan 28, 2010)

Jeanms_247 said:


> Well, The Tau and humanity have a had an interesting (read: Bloody and genocidal) past, but there have been a lot of documented cases where they worked together. On some worlds on the edge of Imperial space, their presence is often allowed by governors who trade with them and everything.
> Now, seeing as how they are expanding while the Imperium is dying, what are some possible outcomes that could come from a diplomatic relationship?
> And at that, I want to mention the Eldar, what have their dealings with the Tau been ?


The actual Imperium would never think of joining with them. Governors have worked with them before because they are on the verge of Imperial space where no Administration adept dares to go nor any Inquisitors. Officially, these planetary rulers would be put to death in the more central Imperium.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

K3k3000 said:


> The Imperium percieves all xenos as threats and its track record of destroying the big ones (t'au, eldar, and orks) have been less than stellar. The Imperium is likely completely incapable of amassing enough man and firepower to destroy the t'au without destroying themselves. That is to say, the resources, energy, and numbers required to destroy the t'au are likely being spent keeping orks and chaos at bay, and removing them to wipe out a well-meaning, mostly passive alien race would be suicidal and completely moronic. If they were capable of comitting genocide on the t'au there wouldn't be anything holding them back from doing so.


For one, you just reiterated several points that I, along with many others, have already made and two, in an all out war, the imperium would win. As for their numbers be insufficient to wipe out the Tau, that just is not so and comparing them to the Orks and Eldar is simple foolish; the Tau have an empire with distinct borders where as the Orks and Eldar are spread throughout the galaxy. It would be extremely difficult to even manage to locate all of their holdings let alone destroy them. However, as I have said before, yes, they would not attempt such a thing given the current situation. 

Also, at this point the Tau are not a credible military threat to the imperium as a whole so, even though they may consider them a "threat," they are not an actual threat to the imperiums survival at this point.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

hailene said:


> You misunderstand. There are humans within the Tau Empire. There is no Human-Tau Empire.



No duh. We are speculating.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> For one, you just reiterated several points that I, along with many others, have already made and two, in an all out war, the imperium would win. As for their numbers be insufficient to wipe out the Tau, that just is not so and comparing them to the Orks and Eldar is simple foolish; the Tau have an empire with distinct borders where as the Orks and Eldar are spread throughout the galaxy. It would be extremely difficult to even manage to locate all of their holdings let alone destroy them. However, as I have said before, yes, they would not attempt such a thing given the current situation.
> 
> Also, at this point the Tau are not a credible military threat to the imperium as a whole so, even though they may consider them a "threat," they are not an actual threat to the imperiums survival at this point.


"Simple foolish" is golden, given the context of the dismissal. In any case, all you did was agree with my salient points. In their current situation, the Imperium cannot destroy the tau (thanks Baron Spikey!) without baring its exposed throat to the rest of the galaxy.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well it seemed as though you were attempting to contradict me with points I myself had already made. But, if the need was great enough I believe the empire could eliminate the Tau although I believe they would be more useful as fodder for the tyranids.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

GabrialSagan said:


> No duh. We are speculating.


Speculating is fine. Speculating with no foundation? That's another beast.

Tau have never allowed their subservient species any sort of political latitude. The Tau make the rules. You kiddies better follow them. 

Your whole idea of a Human-Tau empire hinges on the humans having some sort of political say. And there has been no precedence for this.

You might as well say the Imperium will accept the Tau as abhuman troops in the 6th edition.


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## Jeanms_247 (Mar 3, 2010)

Well, in the Tau 4th Codex, it says that the Vespids are almost equal to the Tau. I think that as long as the species aren't fully integrated, they don't get much in the say of the running of the Empire, but in the long run ? Who knows, Vespid leadership castes and everything


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## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

GabrialSagan said:


> The Emperor proclaimed the manifest destiny of Mankind to be the sole master of the Stars. The Tau disagree with this, therefore they will be destroyed in the Emperor's name. That said...
> 
> I think I read somewhere that their are less then 10,000 worlds in the Tau Empire. That is less then 1% of the Imperium. In a war of attrition the Imperium will win. But Imagine if planetary governors start seeing the Tau Empire as an alternative to the Imperium then the Tau will get the manpower it needs to defend itself indefinitely. The Tau Empire would quickly become a human empire, a federation of races working together for the betterment of all its members with humanity at its center (sound familiar?).
> 
> This Federation would probably have huge drawing power and will grow exponentially. This is all assuming the Tau are ok with their Empire's massive demographic shift. But faced between an endless war with the behemoth Imperium and Co-opting its population they might be ok with being relegated to a smaller role in the Federation if it means survival.



um, seeing as no human would willing turn his back on the Emperor, and secondly the Tau would be the ones in charge, they wouldn't let the humans that join them really control anything... they would let them live, work, and fight for them but never lead the Tau Empire. and Imperial worlds really arn't worried about just survival... they have the Emperor, Imperial guard, Space Marines, and countless other forces to defend them if need be. the Tau are strong but you are forgetting that from birth just about every single human is brought up to fear and hate Xeno scum... they are not to be trusted...
Humans who turn from the Imperium are deemed traitors and are killed where every they are found often in horrible ways.

The Imperium has countless worlds of billions to call upon to take up arms and fight their enemies. the Tau don't, and are thus, no matter their tech stronger then the imperium.

Also once a planetary governer turns to the Tau and declares his alliegance to their empire, they would be noticed and removed from office perminetly... and his world retaken in the Emperors glorious name and the name of Dorn!


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## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Well it seemed as though you were attempting to contradict me with points I myself had already made. But, if the need was great enough I believe the empire could eliminate the Tau although I believe they would be more useful as fodder for the tyranids.


Fodder, no not enough of the Tau to be used like that, maybe as a hunter killer force ordered to target the largest beasts to break the Synaps because of their range and weapons tech.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Helvron said:


> um, seeing as no human would willing turn his back on the Emperor, !


Everyone's statement here I believe is based on the emperor dying and the imperium having no leader to turn to.


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## Jeanms_247 (Mar 3, 2010)

Well what do you expect? The Emperor is dying, we're just looking a bit ahead to try and figure out how to save humanity


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

I think people are missing my point. I am not saying that the Tau Empire is going to take over a big chunk of the human worlds. What I am saying is that if I were speculating on Tau/Human relations for the next 3 or 4 thousand years I would say that if things continue the way they have that the Tau will face extinction unless they start breaking off pieces of the Imperium and Co-opting the pieces for their use. The Tau would have to accept that they can't continue to exist as they are with the Tau as first among equals. The Tau Empire will die for the Greater Good but the Tau race, history, and culture will live on. 

In its place will be a new hegemony where humans, tau, kroot, vespid and any other races who want to join will try and co-exist. It may not be totally stable. And selling the idea to the humans will be hard. But the advanced technology and social organization that the Tau are offering and the protection of the Tau and IG regiments armed with Tau weapons will be a big selling point. 

People believe in the Emperor because his Church and his Armies tell the people to. They worship him because if they do not they will be burned as traitors. If the people are given an alternative, some will take it. Especially if they think that the Tau are offering something better, and ESPECIALLY if its not Tau who are making the offer, but humans. 
***
Everyone is speculating as to whether the Tau can win an indefinite war with the Imperium. No they can't, but armies and soldiers are only one weapon a hegemony has in its arsenal. Ideas have brought down empires as surely as tanks and nukes.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Or perhaps the Tau will remain in that sweet spot of being too much to take in one bite, but yet not threatening enough to bother exterminating. 

Your ideas are reasonable, Gabrial, but have no precedence. A complete reworking of interspecies relations within a faction is unheard of in WH40k. It's a very xenophobic universe.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

hailene said:


> Or perhaps the Tau will remain in that sweet spot of being too much to take in one bite, but yet not threatening enough to bother exterminating.
> 
> Your ideas are reasonable, Gabrial, but have no precedence. A complete reworking of interspecies relations within a faction is unheard of in WH40k. It's a very xenophobic universe.


People are only xenophobic because that's what they've been told to do and generation after generation have been raised up societies that tell them aliens are bad.

But not everyone is xenophobic and a lot of the human race lost faith in the emperor and in the setting we're talking about with the imperium crumbling, they will embrace anyone who will harbor them and not eat them lol.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Most humans don't know that the imperium is in such dire straits. The high lords keep all the underlings blissfully unaware as to how royal screwed they might be.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Most humans don't know that the imperium is in such dire straits. The high lords keep all the underlings blissfully unaware as to how royal screwed they might be.


I think everyone's talking about a setting where the imperium has crumbled and any form of government created by the emperor is long gone (including the high lords of terra).

But even in the current setting, a lot of the population are aware of the truth.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> I think everyone's talking about a setting where the imperium has crumbled and any form of government created by the emperor is long gone (including the high lords of terra).
> 
> But even in the current setting, a lot of the population are aware of the truth.


No, the fast majority has no clue as to what is going on.

EDIT: and I believe the OP asked about diplomatic relationships between the tau and the imperials, not tau and post-imperium humans.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> People are only xenophobic because that's what they've been told to do and generation after generation have been raised up societies that tell them aliens are bad.
> 
> But not everyone is xenophobic and a lot of the human race lost faith in the emperor and in the setting we're talking about with the imperium crumbling, they will embrace anyone who will harbor them and not eat them lol.


You misunderstand. It's not merely humans that are xenophobic, but the universe as a whole. Who do the Eldar support? Eldar. Elrad sacrificed millions of human lives to save thousands of Eldar.

Humans hate everything non-human. 

Orks are pretty much intent on murdering all sentient life. Including themselves if nothing else more interesting is left.

Necrons are seeking to exterminate all life in the galaxy.

Tyranids...well, I suppose you could say they love everyone, kinda. In the hungry sort of way.

The whole universe is built around "them" versus "us".


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## Cocakoala (Apr 27, 2009)

Jeanms_247 said:


> And at that, I want to mention the Eldar, what have their dealings with the Tau been ?


I thnik i heard somewhere the Eldar were the ones who virtually created the Tau empire. In the Tau codex when it describes the night the Etherials appeared it talks about "flickering lights in the night sky and half-glimpsed figures in the mountains". These sound like definate Eldar trademarks. Also i heard something about one of the significant genes found in Etherials having been stolen by Eldar..... on the other side of the galaxy (or something like that). However i have no idea where from. Also the Tau see the Eldar as one of the only races in the Galaxy with a chance of accepting the greater good, and if they did it would benefit both races amazingly. Eldar gaining a safe haven and more numbers and the Tau gaining Eldar technology (Tau with webway, yes please!). 

To be honest the whole Tau empire seems like an Eldar plan to do just this to me.

If the Imperium can't afford to wipe out the Tau and they keep expanding at their current rate (fast!!!) then surely the Tau empire would expand and become a serious threat to the Imperium. By that point any resistance mounted by the Humans would have to be MASSIVE to wipe the Tau out, much bigger then the Damocles crusade.

Just think, in about 1000 years even Tau civillians may have weaponry which makes a grey knight just want to curl into a ball and cry for his mummy. (oh dear that just made me think of railgun totting Tau ********:laugh

Just my 2 pennys.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> But even in the current setting, a lot of the population are aware of the truth.


Actually, a fair few BL books and even some Codices state that the Imperial Citizenry know next to nothing about the Galaxy their living in, and even less about the Imperium. They don't know about the Horus Heresy, they don't know that the Emperor they worship is a corpse sat on a Throne that sustains his life force, they are sheperded into ignorance and slavery for all intents and purposes.


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## army310 (Feb 11, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> It would not be that easy to wipe them out, its not like they are retaking worlds that were just lost from chaos; theses worlds are heavily fortified and defended. The imperium would lose millions, possibly more, in the fighting. Although, in the end, they would win and the Tau would be wiped from the face of the universe. BUT the potential losses would outweigh the gains imo so I doubt they would ever mount a full scale invasion of the Tau Empire.


Well if they just want the Tau dead the only real losts would be in the space fighting. The imperium would plauge bomb the hell out the worlds and send in some space mairnes to mop up. I dont know why the Imperium is so thouchly felly now days with taking worlds. Back in the day if they just want a world they would sit in space and drop some fun down.


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## scolatae (Aug 25, 2008)

Coder59 said:


> To be honest I don't think a Human/Tau Empire is every likely to happen. Mainly because I think the Tau don't have much longer as a species. Sure they have high tech weaponry but their lack of warp drive is a crippling weakness to them ever being a really major player in the galaxy.
> Not to mention the fact that the Tyranids are crawling up their backsides and when it comes to the bugs I believe that the Imperium's philosophy of "Guns.. LOTS of Guns" will win out over the Tau outlook of "A few really good guns."
> 
> On the Tau's side I don't think they would ever really want to incorporate humanity into their empire. Since that would mean they would be outnumbered in their own society by a bunch of fighting mad psyker capable monkeys. That just spells uprising.


I just had a scary thought. It is highly suggested in Tau fluff that the Eldar created them. Now what if the Eldar chose to give the tau access to the webway? They would no longer have any issues with warp travel and bieng a very mobile army normaly they could cause the imperium a lot of grief.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

army310 said:


> Well if they just want the Tau dead the only real losts would be in the space fighting. The imperium would plauge bomb the hell out the worlds and send in some space mairnes to mop up. I dont know why the Imperium is so thouchly felly now days with taking worlds. Back in the day if they just want a world they would sit in space and drop some fun down.


The Imperium really started hurting when they tossed away a lot of their planets to starve the last tyranid invasion. I wouldn't be surprised if they became more hesitant to carpet bomb habitable planets after that.



scolatae said:


> I just had a scary thought. It is highly suggested in Tau fluff that the Eldar created them. Now what if the Eldar chose to give the tau access to the webway? They would no longer have any issues with warp travel and bieng a very mobile army normaly they could cause the imperium a lot of grief.


The eldar aren't in a position to give the webway to anyone. Since the fall, the webway has become all but impossible to navigate, with many of its corridors falling to chaos. No accurate maps currently exist.


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## scolatae (Aug 25, 2008)

K3k3000 said:


> The Imperium really started hurting when they tossed away a lot of their planets to starve the last tyranid invasion. I wouldn't be surprised if they became more hesitant to carpet bomb habitable planets after that.
> 
> 
> The eldar aren't in a position to give the webway to anyone. Since the fall, the webway has become all but impossible to navigate, with many of its corridors falling to chaos. No accurate maps currently exist.


True but perhaps that was part of their pupose. To develoup in real space then with advanced tech and numbers that the Eldar simply couldnt muster purge and mp the webway of taint. The tau have little to no prescence in the webway making it very difficult for them to become possessed (SP?) by daemons they also have short lifespans so chaos wouldn't have long to work on them. Now to the Technology, the tau have been around for 1000 years and have achieved a technalogical status greater than that of the imperium and more importantly they understand how it works. So give them another couple o thousand years and they may be caperbale of constructing weway passages of their own assuming the Eldar helped them with the psyker side of things.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

scolatae said:


> True but perhaps that was part of their pupose. To develoup in real space then with advanced tech and numbers that the Eldar simply couldnt muster purge and mp the webway of taint. The tau have little to no prescence in the webway making it very difficult for them to become possessed (SP?) by daemons they also have short lifespans so chaos wouldn't have long to work on them. Now to the Technology, the tau have been around for 1000 years and have achieved a technalogical status greater than that of the imperium and more importantly they understand how it works. So give them another couple o thousand years and they may be caperbale of constructing weway passages of their own assuming the Eldar helped them with the psyker side of things.


That's a very viable and well argued theory. I'm not getting behind it, myself, but it does open a number of possibilities.


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## Blind (Jan 24, 2010)

It does tie the Tau to the Eldar well, supporting the idea that the Tau are created by the Eldar. Not knowing much but for arguments sake, I would support that idea as most logical, not easily accomplished though like most anything within 40k


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Blind said:


> It does tie the Tau to the Eldar well, supporting the idea that the Tau are created by the Eldar. Not knowing much but for arguments sake, I would support that idea as most logical, not easily accomplished though like most anything within 40k


The eldar didn't create the tau, they supposedly implanted pheremones(or messed with their DNA) in the tau ruling class which enables them (ethereals I think) to control their race.


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## DaafiejjXD (Jun 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> The eldar didn't create the tau, they supposedly implanted pheremones(or messed with their DNA) in the tau ruling class which enables them (ethereals I think) to control their race.


Thing is.. The eldar most certainly helped the tau achieve all they have achieved. In doing so, the Eldar have stepped in the footsteps of their creators, the old ones. What really makes this theory viable, is the fact that there are NO recorded engagements between Eldar and the Tau Empire. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Blind (Jan 24, 2010)

Right, there is no proof that the Eldar infact had done anything to the Tau, many suspect that they have though and believe some hints point towards it. 
Although if the Eldar indeed did tamper with the Tau and help the Ethereal control the masses, then I would argue that they created the Tau. Otherwise they would of just killed themselves out with civil war and made little progress, the planets they inhabit now would be under the rule of the Imperium and thus its like they never existed.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

scolatae said:


> So give them another couple o thousand years and they may be caperbale of constructing weway passages of their own assuming the Eldar helped them with the psyker side of things.


The Tau have no chance of constructing Webway passages, they would have to have vast amounts of knowledge regarding the warp for that to even be remotely viable.

Aside from that large parts of the Webway have fallen into disrepair and thus infested with Chaos, and probably impossible to even rationally consider reconquering. Quite simply the Webway is screwed, and as a realm is slowly but surely falling to Chaos.


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## StormWulfen (Oct 2, 2009)

Helvron said:


> um, seeing as no human would willing turn his back on the Emperor


I hope you were joking?

I mean it's not like there was a great betrayal about 10,000 years ago, or cults that worship chaos gods, or renegade Guard/Space Marines/ Governors/star systems. It's not like there are whole Chaos crusades thats sole purpose is to kill the Emperor and destroy the Imperium.

So yeah I hope you were joking :wink:


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## welshboy600 (Dec 22, 2009)

To the Imperium the Tau empire are insignificant and are just not considered a threat to the empire. The Tau are nowhere near a threat as the Tyranids, Chaos and Orks and are probably just ignored by the higher ups in the imperium. I even suspect that across the galaxy most citizens of the imperium have never even heard of the Tau.


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## nivik (Mar 16, 2010)

i think that the tau will keep growing but then thel reach a point where they cant grow anymore because no one empire can fight all thoughs battles and win, adn therefor i think that they will seek out help in the SM, and i think thell take it, cautously, but still take it, and then at some point it will only be them left and the SM's will retaliate but be to dead to win, and the tau will win but keep a small population alive, kinda to play god with.


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