# Predators Yea or Nea



## Sicca (Jul 8, 2009)

I run an army with two vindicators(CSM) and I'm trying to find something to fill the slot and I'm looking into predators. I wanted to see what people thought about predators before I bought one, I have test run one with some good out comes for both the auto cannon and lascannon preds. My army lacks some anti tank, I have obliterators but it doesnt go with the armor feeling I have going on with the rest of the army. Any tips are appreciated in advance.


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## Imperial Dragon (Dec 22, 2007)

An all lascannon pred cost alot of points but can really be worth it if your lacking in the anti tank dept. you'll need to keep it in cover, you don't want that going down on the 1st turn. I myself use a turret lascannon and side heavy bolters and that seems to do the job fine for me. But it really is personal preference.


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

If you must use them, go with the single lascannon turret with no sponsons. This lets you keep him mobile without sacrificing firepower.


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## ArmoredGhost (Aug 18, 2008)

Me personally I've had pretty good experience with Pred w/ ACannon and LCannon sponsons. Only about 130pts for 2 LCannons and ACannons are decent at stopping transports.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Gul Torgo said:


> If you must use them, go with the single lascannon turret with no sponsons. This lets you keep him mobile without sacrificing firepower.


I agree with this.
It's not particularly expensive, and you can move and fire an accurate rape beam.
Great for light-medium vehicles, and solid against heavy.

Main downside, a single Weapon Destroyed result makes the vehicle useless.
Even worse for OP, CSM don't get Techmarines, so they can't fix it.



ArmoredGhost said:


> Me personally I've had pretty good experience with Pred w/ ACannon and LCannon sponsons. Only about 130pts for 2 LCannons and ACannons are decent at stopping transports.


Also true, it's a lot of anti-light firepower, and solid anti-medium.
Unfortunately you aren't able to move and be effective, you are protected from Weapon Destroyed results though, a bit of redundancy.


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

I run a full las version, A AC w/ HB version, and a Vindi in my CSM army.
My Las goes (big)tank hunting, my AC goes infantry/light vehicle hunting (they work fairly well popping those rhinos for me) and the Vindi does whatever it wants. With the Vindi on the board most of the time my Las Pred stays alive as people se the vindi as more of a threat.

Though I have been looking at swaping that las variant out for a second Vindicator, I'm just not sure I want to be sacrificing my range to do it.
I've used the Las pred in most of my lists, if you want cheap, do a TLLC no sponson pred, as people have already stated it will help it stay alive. if you want powerhouse, get the ful Las and sit in cover and pound the crud outa stuff.


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## Ascendant (Dec 11, 2008)

You know what would complement those two Vindicators nicely? A Third Vindicator.

But seriously, in terms of anti tank, I feel like predators are either points sink/fire magnet, or a lot of points for a single lascannon...


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## your master (Jun 14, 2008)

Ascendant said:


> You know what would complement those two Vindicators nicely? A Third Vindicator.
> 
> But seriously, in terms of anti tank, I feel like predators are either points sink/fire magnet, or a lot of points for a single lascannon...


i agree i have better luck with obliteraters and they give more options too


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## Praxiss (Aug 13, 2009)

I use Oblitz for my CSM but have a Full las-spec pred with my Sm army. It can be effective, but it is best to keep it at the back pounding away with all its guns.

I woudl be tempted to go for the las sponsons and auto turret for more versatility.

Is this for 40k or apoc? If it's apoc i have alweays been tempted to convert a LR Terminus to chaos. /drool.


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

I never have had any luck with my oblits, I dropped them completely, I added in the 2 preds and a Vindi and all of a sudden I start hitting enough to easily make points back.
The only time I don't tend to make my points back is with the tripple las vs Tyranids. I never seem to hit well enough to make a difference. Though my Dakka pred usually makes up more than it's points against the bugs.


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## Praxiss (Aug 13, 2009)

I love my Oblitzx. my fave battle was when one oblit fought a termie assault squad to a stand still! Just kept rollign 5s and 6s and whacking away with his powerfist till they all died. It took about 3 turns to do it but SO worth it.


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

I think the best set-up is two Vindis and a squad of three Oblits. You can deepstrike the Oblits in or not, use them for close or ranged fire. And the Vindis can take care of heavy armor too. 

I have also thought seriously about adding in a Predator, and if I did it would be one with a Turret LC and no other weapons. Cheap and effective, though I would still rather find more points for Oblits.


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## Sicca (Jul 8, 2009)

Wow awesome input guys, and I'm glad I started a little debate lol. From what I can tell I think I want to run the autocannon with side sponson lascannons. Just throwing some dice on the table and I can see that its good but I'll prolly magnetize it so I can bounce back and forth between the options. thank you all for the input really appreciate it. I have to say when ever I have a question and I post it on here it is normally answered within a day or two so good to see quick turn around time. Thansk again


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

I run both chaos and marine armies and I think the lascannon sponson and auto cannon turret is the best build regarding points cost. Your opponent will generally be firing at your vindicators as they offer a potentially very nasty threat. In my heat winning chaos army I used two sets of 2 obliterators and a Auto cannon heavy bolter predator. The predator did perform very well and is good for its points. This variant is always good to add a havoc launcher to.

I personally think that a single turret predator is a waste of a heavy support slot and an expensive investment in an army. Support tanks are not really going to need to be really mobile and after two turns they would not really need to move anymore in most battles.

I would suggest if you had the points in the army to go with three obliterators in the army to very your support fire options but the choice of predator you are going for is good for anit tank and range.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Lash Machine said:


> I personally think that a single turret predator is a waste of a heavy support slot and an expensive investment in an army. Support tanks are not really going to need to be really mobile and after two turns they would not really need to move anymore in most battles.


This. Never, ever take a Predator with only a turret. Think of how many points you're spending on a single gun!


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> This. Never, ever take a Predator with only a turret. Think of how many points you're spending on a single gun!


Would giving it a TL-Lascannon turret and Heavy Bolter sponsons be good?
Then you've got a bit of multi-role, and it doesn't become useless.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Winterous said:


> Would giving it a TL-Lascannon turret and Heavy Bolter sponsons be good?
> Then you've got a bit of multi-role, and it doesn't become useless.


Anything is an improvement on a Predator with only one gun.  I used to use Predators like that all the time. Nowadays I just use the Baal pattern one, though. Not an option for everyone, sadly.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Baal pattern


Coolest looking tank ever.

I'm sorry, did you say something?
:laugh:


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## Sicca (Jul 8, 2009)

I like the predator model, prolly my favorite out of all tanks. Although I don't own one yet, it will be my next purchase though.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I had a predator... but I got annoyed with it so it got converted back to being a basic TLHF razorback, if Im looking for some fire support in the form of TLLC then I go for a razorback anyway- its at the bottom of enemy's target priority lists anyway so why spend the points to make it a predator unless you can fit it in a transport slot.


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

The OP is a CSM player so Razorbacks and Baal Pattern Preds aren't available, unfortunately. Would sure be nice to be able to make use of them, though I guess we can't compain too much with access to super cheap rhinos.

The Chaos Pred set-up pretty much comes down to playstyle and available points. What works for one doesn't always work for the next. and this can sometimes have nothing to do with competitive value. I would personally definitely consider taking a single gun Pred in a lower point (1500 or less) CSM army, mostly because other units on the table will be higher prioity targets, so either he is shooting at them and my cheap Predator lives longer, or he spends a bunch of firepower taking out a cheap unit, allowing a DP/Vindo/Oblits/etc to get closer to him. To each their own.


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## SKITTLESKITTEN (Feb 12, 2008)

predators own, espeically in large numbers


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

SKITTLESKITTEN said:


> predators own, espeically in large numbers


Care to elaborate?

Personally, I dislike Predators. I'm especially not a fan of the single TL Lascannon Pred.

Unless I've fallen into a time Warp that tank costs more than 100pts (or around that number) and for a single gun? Hardly worth it, even a single Obliterator is better in my eyes.

Predators aren't hard enough to be able to sit still and fire all their weapons, mobility is important to them. So you're only wasting points and firepower by slapping sponsons on them. Vindicators are a better choice, with the preferred (and best, in my opinion) option being Obliterators


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Concrete Hero said:


> Unless I've fallen into a time Warp that tank costs more than 100pts (or around that number) and for a single gun? Hardly worth it, even a single Obliterator is better in my eyes.


105 points to be exact.
I think a TL-Laspred is a good vehicle, quite tough and a good anti-vehicle deterrent.
If you hang a Techmarine out with him, you have less chance of losing the vehicle to a weapon destroyed too.
Giving it Heavy Bolter sponsons could also help make it less useless.

I dunno, I don't like to rule anything out, it's a shame to not make use of any unit.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Winterous said:


> If you hang a Techmarine out with him, you have less chance of losing the vehicle to a weapon destroyed too.
> Giving it Heavy Bolter sponsons could also help make it less useless...


Moot point. OP is still a CSM player. No techmarines there.
Personally I think that TLLC and HBsponsons had its days back in 2nd ed. Since then youve not been able to split vehicle fire on Predators and thus this setup sucks. A TLLC is both expensive and very AT oriented. HBs are only AI oriented. Nothing in this setup compliments eachother:nono:

As I see it there are 3 viable ways of using Predators as a CSM player:
Dakkapred CSM style: AC, HBsponsons and a Havoc Launcher _(a bit more pricey then the SM version but more dakka. More or less only AI oriented)_
AT Pred: TLLC and LCsponsons _(Full out AT duty, expensive but 3 LCs aint nothing to sniff at)_
Classic Pred: AC and LCsponsons, and if you add a Havoc Launcher you get a very versatile tank _(A noteably cheaper version of the pure LC pattern. With the Havoc add-on this tank becomes very flexible too)_


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## SKITTLESKITTEN (Feb 12, 2008)

Well losing a full squad of marine's to an enemy Tank is a pain in the ass, Havoc's are good fire support but anti-tank is mostly predator. I like Obliterators too but predators are not only better anti-tank/anti-vehicle but they look way cooler.


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

The one thing that predators have going for them over obliterators is the ability to shrug off small arms fire. A "standard" unit of marines, lets say plasma/missle has 2 changes to hurt a predator. However that 10 man unit has 10/19 chances to hurt that obliterator.
Yeah it has a 2+ save, but get enough shots in there and that 2+ does do much.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

SKITTLESKITTEN said:


> I like Obliterators too but predators are not only better anti-tank/anti-vehicle but they look way cooler.


Predators better anti-tank than Obiterators? That's wrong.

Obliterators can move and shoot (albeit they can't move very _far_). If they get within range they have Multimeltas (or Twinlinked Melta guns if within 6") and being able to Deepstrike they can reliably use these superior anti-vehicle weapons, don't forget you can DS onto Icons as well.

13 and 12 are not great Armour Values, being tanks they're also vulnerable, obvious targets for meltaguns. Though Melta guns would insta kill Oblits, so that argument is slightly moot. You can stick Oblits into cover too.

And Oblits come with Plasma guns and cannons, meaning they can play a good role in anti-horde and MEQ.

True Predators _are_ cheaper, and less Vulnerable to small arms fire. But they're not great at what they're suppose to do and terrible at anything else


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Concrete Hero said:


> Predators better anti-tank than Obiterators? That's wrong.
> 
> Obliterators can move and shoot (albeit they can't move very _far_). If they get within range they have Multimeltas (or Twinlinked Melta guns if within 6") and being able to Deepstrike they can reliably use these superior anti-vehicle weapons, don't forget you can DS onto Icons as well.
> 
> ...


You can have Predators behind cover too, normal Marines can cover them, easy.
Then you have a pretty tough front armour 13, ignoring half the hits.

Yes Meltaguns can hurt vehicles bad, but if you let them get that close you deserve it.
Unless they deep strike, in which case the only real option is to surround it with dudes.

I think that variety of usage is one of the few valid arguments against an AT Predator.


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

Winterous said:


> You can have Predators behind cover too, normal Marines can cover them, easy.
> Then you have a pretty tough front armour 13, ignoring half the hits.


I'm of the opinion that if you take a tank that needs to "hide" behind marines to be used effectively, you have failed.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Normally we play that basic marines cannot hide tanks- they need to be on a hill or raised ground to block enough of the tank to give the 4+ cover save (it just gets a little OTT otherwise).


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> Normally we play that basic marines cannot hide tanks- they need to be on a hill or raised ground to block enough of the tank to give the 4+ cover save (it just gets a little OTT otherwise).


Well something like a Leman Russ is yes, far too tall to be blocked by basic infantry.
But Rhinos and Chimeras can indeed be covered by standard infantry, it's really quite simple.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Winterous said:


> Well something like a Leman Russ is yes, far too tall to be blocked by basic infantry.
> But Rhinos and Chimeras can indeed be covered by standard infantry, it's really quite simple.


Not sure I agree with you that a max of 10 marines can obscure more than 50% of a Predator. But this is the Tactics area, if you want to discuss this then take it to the rules area


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