# Good/Bad Vehicle Choices?



## kelvingreen (May 15, 2007)

From here:


jigplums said:


> Also it has been widely accepted for some time that many vehicles are just not worth their points whilst others are very good for their points.


I've been out of the game for a long time, so I don't know about this "widely accepted" stuff. So which vehicles are considered a waste, and which are considered worth the points?

I'm building a Genestealer Cult army, and I'm allowed access to Sentinels, Leman Russes, Chimeras, Predators, Rhinos and Trucks (which are probably equivalent to Ork Trukks). Are any of those game winners or lame ducks?

It would also be good to know which opposing vehicles to look out for. That Monolith thing the Necrons have looks a bit scary, and I assume the Land Raider is still a meaty bit of kit?

Thanks!


(I don't know if this is Tactics, Army Lists or General, but I thought it fit best in Tactics. Please move the topic if it belongs elsewhere)


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

The leman russ seems to still scare the living %#&@ out of people, so I'd say that's a winner. Sentinels, in my experience anyway, are nice as just walking guns, but their armor is paper thin: my bro took one out with a grenade launcher. 

Monoliths: monoliths are just pure evil. They bristle with guns, and they can teleport troops about. I hate them w/ a burning passion.

BTW, where can I aquire this "genestealer cult" list? It sounds intriguing.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

_I'm allowed access to Sentinels, Leman Russes, Chimeras, Predators, Rhinos and Trucks _

Very cool list, the Cult, and outstanding vehicle options. But, each has their own uses, and although I'd probably shy away from some in my own armies, I do not run a Cult, and your needs may differ.

Sentinels -=- Ya know all of those gaunts that those Bug players love to field but not paint? How about those Str3 Space Elves (both white and dark meat)? Do you know how to piss off a squad of 50 Conscripts? If not, you have not read the first word in this paragraph. These units are very common to the game, and simply cannot harm a sentinel in close combat unless expensive upgrades are taken (and these rarely are). Sentinels average 50pts a pop and can carry a variety of useful anti-infantry/light tank weaponry. I'd not take Lascannons unless you plan on fielding many many Sentinels and are also upgrading them with HK missiles. Sentinels can also act like mobile terrain, being walkers, they can block LoS to more vulnerable units behind and also can block assault corridors, which may buy you more time to better defend your position or even stage an assault of your own.

Leman Russ MBT -=- Everyone knows that the Russ is KING, but not everyone uses them effectively. The Russ, in nearly all of its forms, is primarily an anti-infantry beast. If you keep this in mind, and only attempt to remove vehicles when better options fail to present themselves, then you'll command them just fine.

Chimera AFV -=- I didn't see 'Hellhound' in your list. Well, this will have to do. This little baby can max out at 27 shots (considering hull heavy bolter, turret multilaser, pintle heavy stubber, 6 lasguns, HK missile, and firing from the back firing point, a heavy bolter and a plasmagun), that is 27 shots that can decimate any infantry unit within 12 inches. Now there will rarely be a time when this opportunity will occur, and it is quite unlikely that your opponent would allow your chimera the chance. So, you don't give him the chance to silence one chimera. Make him try and silence 10! Backed up by a few Lascannons and such to help minimize the losses to your chimeras, and you have something to deal with, for sure!'

Predators -=- The 'true' tank fighter. Give this badboy a few Lascannons and position it in LoS of the enemy target, but in cover from the enemy infantry. This guy is pretty straight up, just watch your flanks, as infantry with meltaguns and such will most definitely make a bee-line for your rear hatch.

Rhino -=- Consider the cost, and the purpose, and you'll actually find that the Chimera and Truck can do the same, and be better at it. (this is, of course, assuming as well that the truck and ork truck are one and the same). This vehicle is OK in marine armies, but given the option, I'd leave them there.

Truck -=- Lets see, a vehicle that does not prevent assaults just because it moved 2" during the turn. BARGAIN. If you plan on fielding masses of mêlée crazed nutters, then get them some trucks so they can get stuck in and relieve those tensions! Just keep in mind that only fielding one or two will most likely see them twisted wrecks by the second turn.


In any case, the ubiquitous adage of "Take many, or take none at all." applies to vehicles as well. If you want your vehicles to play a dominant role in your army's battle doctrine, then you'll have to invest heavily in them, both time, money, and tactical knowledge. If you simply want to add another element of diversity into a predominantly infantry fighting force, then a few vehicles here and there can make for a very interesting presentation, and provide a few more tactical opportunities on the table top. Either way, I hope you enjoy your choices.


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## kelvingreen (May 15, 2007)

Hespithe said:


> Very cool list, the Cult, and outstanding vehicle options.


Except when they break down on a roll of a 2 on 2d6! 



Hespithe said:


> Sentinels


Very interesting stuff. I really like the Sentinel model, and was this close to adding one to my army, but it looked a bit fragile. But I'm very much of the philosophy that diversity is key, and the Sentinels seem to be able to do a lot. I may pick some of them up (I'm allowed three total).



Hespithe said:


> Leman Russ MBT


To be honest, I've never liked the look of the Russ model, so I'd be reluctant to get one even if you'd said they were game-winners!



Hespithe said:


> Chimera AFV -=- I didn't see 'Hellhound' in your list.


What's the difference? Is it the armament? I can mount either a multilaser or heavy flamer in the turret of my Chimera.



Hespithe said:


> Predators


Never liked the Ugly Russ, but I've always liked the look of Predators. This is a possibility.



Hespithe said:


> Rhino -=- Consider the cost, and the purpose, and you'll actually find that the Chimera and Truck can do the same, and be better at it.


Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with this. In 2nd Edition, I could pile my Genies into Rhinos and send them tearing across the table at the enemy, but I can't do that any more (probably for the best) so my Rhinos are looking pretty useless. Except...



Hespithe said:


> Truck


I don't think these are equivalent to Ork Trukks then. Open-topped, all-around armour of 9, heavy-stubber. A Rhino is probably a better bet.



Hespithe said:


> If you simply want to add another element of diversity into a predominantly infantry fighting force, then a few vehicles here and there can make for a very interesting presentation, and provide a few more tactical opportunities on the table top. Either way, I hope you enjoy your choices.


Thanks for the help, Hespithe. I'm definitely going to keep this information in mind. The concept of my Cult is that it's from a fairly unimportant Imperial agri-world, so while there is a Guard detachment stationed there, they're not amazingly well-equipped. I want the Genies to be the focus of my army, not tanks, so I'm thinking only one sizeable vehicle per 500pts. I've got a Chimera in my First 500, and I'm thinking, based on this, that I might go for a Sentinel or three in the second chunk.

Thanks a lot!


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## kelvingreen (May 15, 2007)

Cadian81st said:


> The leman russ seems to still scare the living %#&@ out of people, so I'd say that's a winner. Sentinels, in my experience anyway, are nice as just walking guns, but their armor is paper thin: my bro took one out with a grenade launcher.


Yes, this is my worry. I like the model, and I like how fast and flexible they are, but I'm concerned that they're just going to blow up in the first turn. Still, better them than my Genie broods!


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## kelvingreen (May 15, 2007)

Okay, so assuming that I decided that, as utterly absurd as it looks, I wanted to take a Russ, what would be the better armament for the sponsons: heavy flamers or heavy bolters? I'm thinking flamers.


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## nightmarine (Mar 30, 2007)

H Botlers! with that (correct me if im wrong) 60", give or take a foot or 2, ranging battle cannon, that tank should never even be close enough to the enemy to fire those flamers. 
Trust me, Russ are [almost] always worth the points. As long as you keep that 14 armor front-facing, you have nothing [almost] to fear. I know my friend uses one and makes my life a living hell[hound lol]. I usually have to take a turn or 2 from a Land Raider or a devastator squad to kill that SOB. Now-a-days i've been taking the rush approach with a multi-melta armed land speeder. BEWARE OF THOSE THINGS. I have taken the russ down so many times with those. 2d6 AProll agains the 12 side armor almost always spells death for that poor tank. The russ's power all depends upon how u use it.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Flamers are cool, but are not the better choice for a battle tank. Their range makes them too limited. I run two with triple heavy bolters. In my mind, the thought of nine shots is just as scary to many units as the ordnance blast.

I'd save the heavy flamers for the chimeras... At least, this is how I run my two chimmies. A heavy flamer turret with a hull heavy bolter, and a multilaser turret with a hull heavy flamer. For some reason, my opponents don't quite consider this vehicle to be much of a threat. It is not a scoring unit, and has only one 'real' ranged weapon, so it can be dealt with later in the game. Usually, later in the game my opponent has no one remaining who can deal with even a light tank, so the chimmies are fairly free to drive up and scorch some bad guys. For the most part, they play a half fire support/half hellhound role in my army.


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## kelvingreen (May 15, 2007)

Thanks again Hespithe, and thanks nightmarine. I'm leaning towards getting a Russ now (in the second 500), and the heavy bolters sound good. Perhaps with a pintle-mounted storm bolter for a tiny extra bit of shooty?


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## nightmarine (Mar 30, 2007)

hmm...now thats a tough one. the storm bolter can be useful, but once again it all depends. If you plan on russhing the russ (not reccomended if you value it) then definately get the s bolter. if not then i dont know what you should do. if you play against assaulting swarms a lot, then yes. that extra firepower will kill them. if not and you play a shooty SM or something then its probably not worth your points. I would think about the heavy stubber. it will match your heavy bolter range and make getting your entire tank firing easier. not to mention its only 2 more points for +12" range, +1 AP (bad way) and +1 shot. its a good buy. 

I would also suggest track guards and maybe a hunter killer missile for some extra ranged protection or in case thecannon is destroyed. the missile isnt the best thing, but if you are playing accross the length of an 8' table (which the IG player always makes me do so i am toasted by his cannon before i can do anything) then its a lifesaver. also those track guards will come in handy, but make sure you value moving above a turn of shooting before buying those.

As an afterthought, instead of buying the h-k missile, you could do wut my friend does and hull-mount a lascannon as a backup gun. then can either fire his cannon or a lascannon and 2 h bolters and a heavy stubber. either way it hurts.


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## kelvingreen (May 15, 2007)

Very interesting info, thanks. I don't play against anyone regularly yet, as I'm just getting back into the game, so I have no idea yet what my most common opponent will be. I'd guess it'll be Marines as everyone seems to field some sort of Marine force nowadays!

I've completely overlooked the heavy stubber, as the whole stub gun family was utterly pointless back when I used to play. I really should drop all these old prejudices.


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

The heavy stubber (36" 3x str 4) is my favorite pintle mounted upgrade, when added to 3 heavy bolters the Russ can turn lighter squads into mincemeat.

Trackguards. IMO this is one of the most stupid things you can put on a battle tank Nightmarine has said why really but...... 
If you have been shot you should have line of sight, so a vehicle upgrade that swaps a can not move result for a can not shoot result seems mental to me.
The only place I would start to consider putting them is on on a Transport that really needs to get there.

Those Truck are not as good as Ork ones (armour 10).

Where do have to buy vehicle upgades from?


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

theres only one vehicle a cult army should consider... the cult limo.


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## kelvingreen (May 15, 2007)

The only vehicle upgrades (beyond standard weapon options) that the Cult list allows me are Sacred Item (a Cult specific thingie that helps with Morale tests), Extra Armour, Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter (bugger), Rough Terrain Mods, Searchlight, Smoke Launcher. Unlike a Traitor list, the Cult doesn't get to pick and choose any IG vehicle upgrades.

The truck loses the Sacred Item and Storm Bolter options, but you can mount a heavy stubber.



torealis said:


> theres only one vehicle a cult army should consider... the cult limo.




Yes, I'm looking forward to converting or scratch-building one of these, even if it'll get blown apart by a laspistol!


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