# GW..becomeing a painting company



## Imwookie2 (Jul 14, 2010)

Hey guys I just finish a weekend of trying to build my new necron army up and by the end of it I was almost ready to kill someone...and so now I have to rant a little. Has anyone else noticed how GW is making models for painters now instead of the gamers for example this weekend I was trying to put together some of the new lychgaurd models.....and it was almost impossible. For anyone who hasnt seen the models the arms pretty much come so you can only pose them one way. The arms are cut at the wrist and they leave the hands on the staff. So unless you have four hands it is almost impossible to get the arms and staff on correctly because you have to glue both arms in and glue the staff to the arms all at the same time or the position will be off. God forbid you drop the model on the playing table a week later...the staff will fall off because there isnt a big enough gluing surface and you cant even pin the hands because there isnt enough plastic there to do it not that you should ever have to pin a plastic model. The Immortal kit is even worse not only do you have to get the arms and gun into position you also have to get the tube that runs into gun into position. All of this is ok if you were going to just paint the mini and put it on a shelf but if you actually play with these models (which is the point right?) they wont last very long. Also with any of the new necron models you have to green stuff the shoulder pads or youll have nasty line right through them....this could have been avoid-it with better design. Now after saying all this I want to say that I do spend A LOT of time painting my models and I do enjoy that part of the hobby....but in the end im in this game to play the game which was the original purpose of this game back when it came out. On a side note I also think they are putting to much detail in to the troops (ex. space wolves) its ok to go overboard with HQs but I dont need to be spending hours painting each model. And finally my main point...if a guy like me, a 25 year old man who has been modeling since I was young, has trouble with these how is a younger kid just getting into the hobby supposed to deal with it. I think some of this leads to the younger generation just not painting because its just so overwhelming.

I just want to thank you if you read this whole thing...let me know what you think.


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## CraftworldSurathin (Dec 18, 2011)

I think GW is trying to cater to hardcore types who play, but also want to put hours into each model to make them look great. Nothing wrong with that, but it is kind of annoying for people like me, who frankly only throw on some paint and minor detailing to make the models "presentable," and mainly care about gaming.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

GW has always had a hobby first, game second mentality. Their claim to fame is producing fantastic miniatures, the fact you can game with them is an added bonus. Hell back when GW first started they didn't even have their own game system, but made generic fantasy and sci fi models. This direction shifted when WHFB came out, they dropped other companies games from White Dwarf and started to change the models they produced. 

With successful rival companies, such as Privateer Press, Mantic Games or Malifaux, who also have excellent models but crucially better rules systems, GW's mentality might start to change. Their no longer the sole big player (admittedly still by far the largest, but now there is proper large scale competition). 

The models themselves though will likely not become any simpler, they are GW's strength and selling point, what they themselves advertise. Still a lot of kits are easier than they used to be- vehicle kits for example, and space marines are fantastically easy to assemble and interchangeable. The greater number of plastic kits has replaced some very fiddly metal kits too.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

I can't see a problem.

Ever try to build some of the older Military vehicles with seperate linked tracks, meaning to those that don't know you have to construct each track plate by plate, this method needs absolute accuracy if any plate, bogey wheel and return roller is out by just a smidgen the whole track won't fit, all that work which mean you have to pull apart the whole track system and hopefully not breaking any of the pieces and do it all over again.

Thank god for Vinyl Tracks.

Anywho, if someone can explain why GW does what it does, they are a far better person than me.

For the record i am a hobbiest first, i rarely play the game.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I can understand your frustration. I have had some models which have sent me round the bend.(Old style demonettes were the worst. I can never pin the arms properly.) As for the new plastic models, I for one welcome the massive conversion opportunities they offer. For these frustrating or tricky models, blutak is your friend. Work out the overall pose with the blutak in the joins, Then pull one part off remove the blutak from one join and put it back together holding that one join together. Use a superglue applicator with a fine tip and apply it to the join. Once that first one is done the rest get easier.


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## Papa_Nurgle42 (May 5, 2011)

Achaylus72 said:


> For the record i am a hobbiest first, i rarely play the game.


I side with Achaylus, I have always loved the converting and painting ( novice painter at best) but I do enjoy playing the game every once in a while.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

Achaylus72 said:


> Thank god for Vinyl Tracks.


curse him for vinyl tracks you mean, gimme seperate tracks an day of the week over those horrible, undetailed, unrealistic looking pieces of garbage


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

with a .5mm pin in the wrists you can have loads of poses with the lychguard/praetorian models , they have ball joints at the shoulders and everything,plus the pin will hold the weapon in place while you glue it. Personally i don't think necron players have ever had it so good load of plastics and loads of interchangeable parts and more stuff to come.
I dont think that a rant about the company is fair when its clearly a lack of ability that prevents the OP doing what he wants with the models,if glued correctly the models will go together no problem at all out of the box, they are no better or worse than eldar or dark eldar for surface area to glue and if you are a little rough with your models in play or storage then a simple half mill pin and glue will keep them solid and having to green stuff a gap is fairly normal so shouldnt be unexpected if your anal about gaps and mold lines etc like i am.

Also should be noted that as a military modeller im in the individual link category, i think the flexi tracks are poor too, but i think they include them in the kits these days to sell the track packs to people like me, same with the etched brass after sale kits, im a sucker for those, i have three tanks sat on my desk at the moment waiting to be built(1:35 scale) but still havent had time to get them out of the box, but i will say this even at 1:35 scale there are parts with far finer components and in far greater number than anything in a GW Kit, granted they tend to sit on a shelf when complete but i approach construction of both the same, because i will at some point have to move the scale model and it will get bumped from time to time and i dont want it to fall to bits if i happen to sneeze on it.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

I found the new lychguard fantastic, and they can be quite dynamically posed if you wish. Necrons are my collecting and painting army, while SW are my competitive army and CSM lie somewhere in between. I am about 50:50 gamer/ painter-modeller so i appreciate both aspects of the hobby very highly.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Well, I can honestly say that being new to the Necrons left me a tad bit frustrated putting together my first two models. After that everything else was a breeze. Also, at the moment, I'm about 95% painter 5% gamer since I'm not really playing until a model is finished.


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## Imwookie2 (Jul 14, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> I dont think that a rant about the company is fair when its clearly a lack of ability that prevents the OP doing what he wants with the models,if glued correctly the models will go together no problem at all out of the box, they are no better or worse than eldar or dark eldar for surface area to glue and if you are a little rough with your models in play or storage then a simple half mill pin and glue will keep them solid and having to green stuff a gap is fairly normal so shouldnt be unexpected if your anal about gaps and mold lines etc like i am.


First off let me say that after spending thousands of dollars on this hobby over the last few years I have a right to rant about things if I want to. Also dont assume that just beacuse im ranting means I lack ability. In fact that statement couldnt be further from the truth, im an above average painter and I LOVE to convert models...and im not to bad at it, I actually have a project post on another forum dedicated to some of my conversions. As far as pinning and green stuff work goes im ok with it if im doing a HQ choice or if im working on a metal model or even a big plastic model. My problem comes when simple models are made harder then they have to be because GW didnt think out their product very well. They already proved with the necron warriors that they could mold the whole shoulder pad on the back torso piece they also showed that they could use a pin method with the wrist joints, it would have been very simple to do this with the Lychgaurd and they immortals and made getting the models together a little easier. 

Now with this all being said I noticed that most of the people who disagreed with me are modelers or painters first and gamers second. Judging by the three or four Local game stores in my area and the fact that maybe 1 or 2 of the 10 armies I see on any given day are painted and the rest are not Id say, at least in my local area, that gamers take up a majority of the people buying from GW. So maybe they should put more thought into making the models a little more game friendly....which isnt to much to ask since they already proved that they can with space marines. Space Marines have more bits that you can paint and convert then any army, at the same time if I need to throw together a tac squad I can do so quickly because the models are well thought out and easy to assemble and I can spend as much time as I need to to paint them.

Anyway every one has the right to their opinion and if I didnt want to hear them I wouldnt have posted this thread, but that doesnt mean that you should attack me and make unfounded assumptions about my abilities just because you dont agree with me. I didnt post any thing bashing anyone on this forum and I deserve the same respect.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Imwookie2 said:


> First off let me say that after spending thousands of dollars on this hobby over the last few years I have a right to rant about things if I want to. Also dont assume that just beacuse im ranting means I lack ability. In fact that statement couldnt be further from the truth, im an above average painter and I LOVE to convert models...and im not to bad at it, I actually have a project post on another forum dedicated to some of my conversions. As far as pinning and green stuff work goes im ok with it if im doing a HQ choice or if im working on a metal model or even a big plastic model. My problem comes when simple models are made harder then they have to be because GW didnt think out their product very well. They already proved with the necron warriors that they could mold the whole shoulder pad on the back torso piece they also showed that they could use a pin method with the wrist joints, it would have been very simple to do this with the Lychgaurd and they immortals and made getting the models together a little easier.
> 
> Anyway every one has the right to their opinion and if I didnt want to hear them I wouldnt have posted this thread, but that doesnt mean that you should attack me and make unfounded assumptions about my abilities just because you dont agree with me. I didnt post any thing bashing anyone on this forum and I deserve the same respect.


Gotta agree with B&K on this one. If you are such a good painter/ modeller, what is the problem. Sure, the necrons aren't as easy as SM to assemble, but its not exactly rocket science. The dynamics of making a sprue are much more than just "we did it with this model so we can do it with these new ones. Its all about how best to use the material, so the least waste occurs, how the model was sculpted or CAD'd in the first place and how to fist everything into the box.

Anyway, immortals and deathmarks have different torsos, so they couldnt make it one piece. 

I didn't see an attack on you by the way, i saw some one making an observation based on the information they were given. Why don't you link us your hobby thread or start one here, that way you can get feedback on your modelling and painting


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## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

having just this second finished putting together 5 death marks, i can safely say as an irrefutable fact, that there have been FAR worse kits than the immortal box.

also, the lychguard kit is fine, glue the hand to the arms first. then the arm to the shoulder. no problem. ball and socket joints will always roll about a bit before the glue sets, thats just the nature of them.

these models are far from fragile, so unless you are gaming with a hammer there will be no problem.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

There are two kits that have given me hell since my first days as a gamer and that is the Lord of Change and those old metal flamers before the failcast came along.

Im not trully fond of the Immortals kit, but they are a nice looking set of models and well I have learned so much in the way of pinning and gap filling that I am just not bothered by any of it anymore, I still have a freaking vendetta against that damn LoC though...


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

the-ad-man said:


> glue the hand to the arms first. then the arm to the shoulder. no problem.


The hand bone connects to the wrist bone!
The wrist bone connects to the ARM bone!
The ARM bone connects to the shoulder bone!


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## Imwookie2 (Jul 14, 2010)

mcmuffin said:


> I didn't see an attack on you by the way, i saw some one making an observation based on the information they were given. Why don't you link us your hobby thread or start one here, that way you can get feedback on your modelling and painting



Sorry there is no other way to take someone saying that I have a "lack of ability" when they have never seen any of my work then it being an attack. As far as posting my stuff on this thread ....it really has nothing to do with the topic and if I wanted your guys opinion on whether or not im a good modeler/painter I would have posted a thread about it and asked for it, that is not the purpose of this thread.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Imwookie2 said:


> Sorry there is no other way to take someone saying that I have a "lack of ability" when they have never seen any of my work then it being an attack. As far as posting my stuff on this thread ....it really has nothing to do with the topic and if I wanted your guys opinion on whether or not im a good modeler/painter I would have posted a thread about it and asked for it, that is not the purpose of this thread.


It's an observation, not an attack.

If I say that I'm writing this while drooling and spontaneously bawling 'Blood for the Blood God!', whilst groping around for the hilt of a Chainaxe, you could reasonably assume that I am a Khorne Berzerker (I'm not, by the way. Just an analogy).

Equally, if you struggle to construct a kit regarded by MOST PEOPLE in the thread as being fairly simple (who have proven themselves as capable constructors of plastic space men), one could reasonably assume that you possessed a certain degree of modelling incompetence. If you posted up examples of your work, then we might see what a glorious fellow you are, but without proof, we are talking based upon assumption.

Midnight


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## Imwookie2 (Jul 14, 2010)

Its funny but out of the 4 forums I posted this thread on this is the only one whos members are ignorant enough to make assumption on my modeling skills.


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

Chill... there's no need to get strung up like this over one post questioning your ability. It's only normal that people will tell you to consider the POSSIBILITY that it's you. 

Anyway, to reply to your original statement. GW has always been a company that prides itself over making the best mini's on the market. They have been getting more and more competition however, because good sculptors can be found in quite a few "alternative" companies. 

GW is just pushing what can be done with the material right now in terms of finesse and detail and that does make the current generation of models harder to assemble then models made 5-10 years ago. 

But really... nothing that cannot be overcome. 12 year olds can still assemble these things easily, I see them doing that in the local GW all the time. 

As for GW being more about the modelling then gaming: it's always been like that. No matter how many people like to slap the "gamer first" tag on themselves to create curbstomping lists to own noobs at their LFGS... Although the devs will aim for reasonable balance in the game, I don't think they emphasise the competitive scene as much as other companies like Privateer Press.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Imwookie2 said:


> Its funny but out of the 4 forums I posted this thread on this is the only one whos members are ignorant enough to make assumption on my modeling skills.


Why are you so angry if it's funny?

We're not ignorant, just observant and unafraid to express opinions. Let me guess, you posted this up on... Warseer, Bolter and Chainsword, Dakka Dakka and here. Correct?

Midnight

EDIT: elmir, you're signature is REALLY distracting. Just sayin'.


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

Removed it then.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

You didn't have to REMOVE it, I just thought I'd be the one to say that it was distracting.

But thanks for the consideration, anyway.

Midnight


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## Imwookie2 (Jul 14, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> Let me guess, you posted this up on... Warseer, Bolter and Chainsword, Dakka Dakka and here. Correct?


No surprise just like other assumptions made on this thread you are completely wrong try....Librarium Online, 40k forum, and a local game shops forum....nice try though.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Imwookie2 said:


> Its funny but out of the 4 forums I posted this thread on this is the only one whos members are ignorant enough to make assumption on my modeling skills.


So if i assumed you were a forge-world grade sculpture, i would still be ignorant? right

Anyway, why cop such an attitude. You will find that heresy users give much more constructive criticism than other forums, which is why we have some of the best painters and hobbyists on our forum. Why i mentioned posting your work was a nice way of saying "don't call yourself an above average painter and hobbyist, it just looks a little bit arrogant" let others be the judge of your work.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

my apologies Imwookie2, no offense was meant and i can say please dont take my post as an "attack".
I was merely commenting on your ability based on your opening post,if you notice i also gave some helpful tips to achieve the result your post mentioned, I have access to all kits including the ones you mention, in fact i was picking necron orders when i read and replied to your post and as a modeler of many years myself i know that four hands isnt a requirement for that kit.
In this forum people are perfectly willing to listen and agree with genuine gripes people have but equally the painting and modeling section (where this should have been posted) has some of the best modelers and painters online, all of which would have been willing to listen to your issues with those kits in question and offer genuine advice how best to go about getting the results you want,but you choose to post a thread questioning the hobbys direction which has always been models first and that the kits were somehow defective,these type of threads will always get people to sit up and take notice and if people think your wrong they will call you on it.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Imwookie2 said:


> No surprise just like other assumptions made on this thread you are completely wrong try....Librarium Online, 40k forum, and a local game shops forum....nice try though.


Near enough.

Midnight


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## Imwookie2 (Jul 14, 2010)

mcmuffin said:


> Anyway, why cop such an attitude. You will find that heresy users give much more constructive criticism than other forums, which is why we have some of the best painters and hobbyists on our forum. Why i mentioned posting your work was a nice way of saying "don't call yourself an above average painter and hobbyist, it just looks a little bit arrogant" let others be the judge of your work.


LOL.....saying that im an above average painter/modeler isnt arrogant at all. I was saying im like a C+ painter...if I was on here saying im a great painter/modeler maybe that would be arrogant....plus it was said in response to an assumption that i have a lack of ability.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

C+? That's above average? Wait whut?

Midnight


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Imwookie2 said:


> LOL.....saying that im an above average painter/modeler isnt arrogant at all. I was saying im like a C+ painter...if I was on here saying im a great painter/modeler maybe that would be arrogant....plus it was said in response to an assumption that i have a lack of ability.


it wasnt an assumption that you have a lack of ability, you posted quite clearly you require four hands to assemble a model kit in your first post, you described your own lack of ability


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## Imwookie2 (Jul 14, 2010)

You guys "lack the ability" to give useful responses to posts


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

How about providing a link to your modelling and painting on these other forums, so people can see your work? 

Either way there's no need to be so defensive or take such an aggressive tone. All the responses you have received have been honest- people have found the kits easy to assemble and agree that GW is a modelling first company. This may not have been what you wanted to hear but it's what people thought. 

If you a person finds something difficult there's always the chance it's not the task but their own abilities at fault. This can apply to anything and please note i'm not trying to demean you modelling ability (of which i have no knowledge of).


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Your phrasing of the sentence could have been better . If you had said " i paint to a good tabletop quality" fine, or "i have been told by members of another forum that my painting is above average" it wouldn't look so ... well, you know yourself how it sounds. just read your post again. I'm not being rude, or harsh or anything like that, i am just stating things as i see them

Edit: You don't need to be a prick about this. Everyone here has given their honest opinion. Rep is a way for rewarding people who do a good job or give good responses to posts, so i hardly think B&K lacks ability to give useful responses.


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## Imwookie2 (Jul 14, 2010)

http://http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/projects/217527-adventures-cut-paste-conversionist.html

thats the link to the other forum....but unless you have a librarium online account you wont be able to see the pics.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Imwookie2 said:


> http://http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/projects/217527-adventures-cut-paste-conversionist.html
> 
> thats the link to the other forum....but unless you have a librarium online account you wont be able to see the pics.


Let me ask you are you TheNextMikeIke on Librarium, if so then it make perfect sense as to why your Necron broke.

A BLOODY DOG CHEWED ON IT.

Not your dog oh no but you housekeepers dog of all things, let me ask you why do you allow your housekeepers dog to get even remotely close to your bloody models in the first place.

I have a cat and i always have my Model Display Room closed, as to prevent my cat getting onto the tables, problem solved. Or a better solution if your houskeeper does not live with you, ban the bloody dog, again problem solved, if she does, have the dog kept in her room, again problem solved.

Apart from that nice model.


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## Imwookie2 (Jul 14, 2010)

LOL....yeah it really sucked. I work on my models on a coffee table as my living space is small and I dont really have any place else I can work on my stuff. My land lady lives above us and I guess when she came down to check on the heater or something (while I was at work) the dog came down with her. It was the first time that I know of that the dogs been down there....I guess its a lesson learned.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Imwookie2 said:


> You guys "lack the ability" to give useful responses to posts


So what would you define as a "useful" response to your post? Maybe us joining in your cry of anguish as you cannot manage a basic assembly job? 

You made a series of claims, ones that led others to believe that your abilities were not nearly as well developed as you have been led to believe they are. This is not an attack, especially when it is accompanied by multiple solutions to your problem. The fact that you felt the need to post your rant on *four* separate forums makes me think you are just looking to find: a negative response, a forum to spew more trite anti- GW nonsense, or both.

i hope this is not the case, and you just were having a bad day when you posted, and another when you chose to get as defensive as you did.


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## Imwookie2 (Jul 14, 2010)

A useful response would have been: Yeah it sucks when that happens here is some tips to help....not you suck here is some tips cause you suck...which is pretty much the gist of some of the responses I got. Follow the link in my last post and you will see that the latter is not the case. I posted on 4 forums because I like to get more then one group of peoples opinion on things.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Noone said you suck, they said that they think your modeling skills might not be up to snuff. There is a huge difference between the two.In your original post, you use the entire litany of excuses that those who don't wish to be bothered by the hobby end of the game use. So far, games workshop ( as opposed to forgeworld) has yet to make one kit that could truly be called an expert level kit. As it has been said, there are models available in approximately the same scale that have perts so small that manipulating them onto the model require tweezers and a magnifying lens. not one games workshop product requires that level of equipment, unless you are doing serious scratch-building of infantry models, or are adding details to vehicles. this is why you gave the impression that your problem was a lack of skill, your statements, such as the model being nearly impossible, when the consensus is that the model is at most of moderate difficulty, and as durable as others by games workshop. Another factor in creating the impression that you might not be a skilled modeler is that you did not think to pin parts that are fragile/difficult to glue. Pinning parts is a fundamental skill in working with miniatures, one so basic, that you cannot do certain projects without knowing how to do so correctly.



by getting as defensive as you have, you create the impression that you created the thread with the expectation of having people agree with you, and got angry when they did not. To be honest, I get a bit upset when I see someone who has been nothing but friendly give advice and see that the person it was offered to get pissy. Especially when no offense was intended, nor was anything said that should be reasonably seen as an attack on you. He was being honest with you about the level of skill you described. It speaks well to his character that he would be honest with you, despite the fact that you might not want to hear what he had to say.

Posting a link where you have to join to see the post is a bit fishy to me, and until you post something that I do not have to join another forum to see, i will be a bit skeptical, especially because I have high standards for what I see as good.


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## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

Agreeing with EVERYTHING everyone else has said. You're appearing to be arrogent and a dick because someone else doesn't agree with you. I'm not going to harp on, and I'm building the exact kit right now. Its a peice of piss. The only 'problem' i encountered was the arms, which I glued and put the model on the desk so it wouldn't move.

Maybe you're rushing the kit? I know I almost ruined the flying boxraven because I rushed it. Slow down and take it easy, people here tell things how they see it, learn to deal with this or move to another family friendly forum.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Lets all take a step back and take a deep breath. Nobody was getting personal and there is no need to get defensive. If I come back to this thread and see the same argument I will not be best pleased.

Now back to the OP's origional question. I don't know the model itself, but my initial thought is what glue are you using? Plastic cement should not break very easily, and is what I always use. It does take a few minutes to cure, so doing a single joint at a time is probably best.

Without access to images of your work we are not able to make a judgement on you skills. I invite you to create a thread in the hobby section if you haven't already done so, as we all like seeing work of newly released minatures.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Imwookie2 said:


> A useful response would have been: Yeah it sucks when that happens here is some tips to help....not you suck here is some tips cause you suck...





bitsandkits said:


> with a .5mm pin in the wrists you can have loads of poses with the lychguard/praetorian models , they have ball joints at the shoulders and everything,plus the pin will hold the weapon in place while you glue it. Personally i don't think necron players have ever had it so good load of plastics and loads of interchangeable parts and more stuff to come... if you are a little rough with your models in play or storage then a simple half mill pin and glue will keep them solid and having to green stuff a gap is fairly normal so shouldnt be unexpected if your anal about gaps and mold lines etc like i am.


Like this?

Midnight


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## Silens (Dec 26, 2010)

I magnetised the arms of my lychguard and pinned the hands to switch out between warscythes and shields.

I assembled 10 immortals pretty easily, and don't remember having any difficulties.

There are more details in the model to make them look better. You can paint less details on a highly detailed model, but there isn't really the option to show off expertise on a bland, flat model.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I amiably disagree, Silens - in my opinion, leaving details makes a model look unfinished, but you can do a lot with flat space. My Word Bearers are an example - the Land Raider and Dreadnought have lots of script on the armour, little Chaos stars and that kind of thing, and even the infantry have small amounts of letters and wiggly lines on 'em.

Midnight


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

I agree with Midnight on this. I have a hard time dealing with uncontrolled space that could use emblems, badges, or scramble lines to represent script. Then again, this problem of controlling empty space was started by my high school art teacher... thanks a lot Mr. Revel


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Blu Tac the shoulders to the model then glue the hands and arms into place the way you like them. Remove the blutac and glue shoulders.

The reason the hands are sculpted to the staff is if you leave the hands open enough to fit a staff in them they look all sorts of out of wack. Trust me, they are not building models for painters, sculpting in a way that you can make a mold out of it is very time consuming and you have to think in the long run if putting it all together. While the Space Marines (circa 1998) are a bit more forgiving, you have to still glue their arms on and hope the gun fits right or visa versa.


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