# Custom Keeper of Secrets and Identical Twin Demon Princesses



## doctor thunder (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm not sure if I'll ever actually use these in a game, but it was a cool idea that was fun to execute. I hate the cow-head models GW makes, and I wanted something that didn't actually contain nudity like the GW models do, but still gave off a Slaneeshi feel.

Not looking for C+C, just wanted to share some pics with my fellow hobbyists.

Enjoy


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

=O Twins? Haha, perfect. +Rep


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## Blackhiker (Dec 28, 2007)

Those models look fun. :wink: +rep


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

where are the models from?


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

Those are still really cool models right in line with stuff you normallly make.


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

they look like converted barbie dolls man. Not sure if I'm diggin the blades on the armour, but it's a personal taste more than anything!


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## Azwraith (Apr 23, 2009)

i really like the second one with the nymphs at the base its cool!

i am giant woman hear me ROAR!


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## smfanboy (Apr 1, 2009)

if I would be an gaurdsman and saw those I would be scarred:shok:


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## Shogun_Nate (Aug 2, 2008)

smfanboy said:


> if I would be an gaurdsman and saw those I would be scarred:shok:


Well..if you'd stay away from the blades you'd be a bit less scarred :biggrin:!

Those are just plain awesome. So damned creative and the paint job is ace. Hell..beyond that I honestly don't know what to say! LOL :biggrin:

Good luck and good gaming,

Nate


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## smfanboy (Apr 1, 2009)

this actually made me thought something how is it supposed to kill something it doesnt have any swords


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## PowerEncarnate (Apr 15, 2009)

they look awsome, kinda like Eldar that became daemon princesses during the fall of the eldar. I like the Idea of twins. my one question is where did you get the nyphes at?


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## Agentdark (Oct 11, 2008)

This is actually not well done, or interesting. All you have done is taken an anime doll and glued spikes on it. This does not take time or effort. This is not unique, or pushing the envelope. 

Lets face it Doctor Thunder. You are not a good Hobbyist. You are just someone who likes to write NC-17 Fanfiction about some really creepy female Space Marines. I am Surprised it took you this long to move onto Slaaneshi Stuff.

Of course, you have proved my theory, and that is most people do not understand what Slaanesh is. They think Slaanesh and go "ZOMG TEMPTATION MEANS SEX LULZ" Slaanesh is alot more then that. Slaanesh is drugs, Slaanesh is sensation. This is not Slaanesh, this is more of a bad attempt to bring borderline Porn to a hobby. 

Really, just stop, seriously. This is not all that well done. Your Marines are not well done, and neither are your msyonginist attempts at Imperial Guard. I dont mind Counts as in an army. I think its part of the army. However, this is not "Counts As" this is just crap. I know for sure that if you tried to put this on the table, I would not play against you. 

So in conclusion, next time you get the urge to share your models, dont, becouse you will be doing the world a favor.


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## doctor thunder (Sep 11, 2008)

Agentdark said:


> So in conclusion, next time you get the urge to share your models, dont, becouse you will be doing the world a favor.


That's the great thing about the internet. If you don't want to see it, you don't have to click on it. :good:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

You really, really need to consider your position here, Agentdark. Outright attacks on a person aren't welcome here. If you want to continue posting them, go fuck off elsewhere, put bluntly.

If he's doing the world a favour, why is out the 10 People who replied in the thread, you are the one who didn't like them?

Who gives a monkeys ball if it's not original or unique? It has a good effect, and looks nice enough. It's each to their own, and some people like it. You don't, and you obviously have history with Doctor Thunder. If you don't, that attitude's not welcome.

Personally, regarding Slaanesh and "borderline" porn, you've obviously not seen the existing, and the previous Daemonette models, for both 40K and Inquisitor. Breasts, piercings and suggestive poses, or Eldar females into BDSM, or where tight lycra/rubber suits are far more pornographic than a plastic "anime model" wearing a pencil skirt.

If you think you're being mature, and "above" every one by making the obvious statement, good for you. It's just that noone really cares whether you think you're standing above the rest.

As a side note, why is it you never hear of Slaanesh seducing people through music? Hell, put on a bit of Marvin Gay or Hot Chocolate, and I'm a gonna. But seriously, you're not doing yourself any favours. Take it to PM, if you have a personal rant.


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## Arquinsiel (Apr 29, 2008)

Vaz said:


> You really, really need to consider your position here, Agentdark. Outright attacks on a person aren't welcome here. If you want to continue posting them, go fuck off elsewhere, put bluntly.


Jobz a gud 'un.


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## The Real Rod Hull (Jun 5, 2009)

Vaz said:


> You really, really need to consider your position here, Agentdark. Outright attacks on a person aren't welcome here. If you want to continue posting them, go fuck off elsewhere, put bluntly.


Hi, I couldn't be bothered registering just to post on this topic because I've already told Doctor Thunder that I think those are shit, and explained why at length elsewhere. But your post compelled me to.

Firstly, the passage I quoted makes you look less than mature. Perhaps you should practice what you preach ?

Secondly, those are shit conversions. He has taken toys which do not match the style or scale of GW products in anyway, and then shoehorned them in because they fit his unsavoury predaliction for coy mysogynistic tittilation.
In execution and in concept they are failiures.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

So... You registered just to flame?

Also, hell I know I'm not mature. So does the majority of Heresy Online. Go troll some other place that welcomes it.


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## Arquinsiel (Apr 29, 2008)

Looks to me he registered to comment on the hypocricy of someone trolling a troll and then calling that person for trolling. I like the word "Troll", it's so descriptive.


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## Chaoz94 (Jun 17, 2008)

ok this is to the 2 douchebags who think its fair to complain to someone about the fact that they think their work is "failure" or shit
listen guys its the internet you dont have to click on it as doctor thunder said
and doc thunder probably put effort , time and money into the models and as i see you guys havent excatly posted any pics of your models so if your gonna complain about somebodys models atleast have the balls to post your models up otherwise your just proving your a douchebag who seeks to make people feel bad about their work or a troll who is too embarassed by how shit their own work is that they have to make other people feel bad
personally doc thunder i like them as i feel it captures a slanesshy feel and before you 2 douchebags complain about them not being "fluffy" 
doc thunders said he was using them as count as anyways , you dont have to have a model which fits the fluff all the time , and remember its just a game , were meant to all be having fun not slagging eachother off because were not following the fluff

chaoz


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## Arquinsiel (Apr 29, 2008)

Chaoz94 said:


> ok this is to the 2 douchebags who think its fair to complain to someone about the fact that they think their work is "failure" or shit
> listen guys its the internet you dont have to click on it as doctor thunder said
> and doc thunder probably put effort , time and money into the models and as i see you guys havent excatly posted any pics of your models so if your gonna complain about somebodys models atleast have the balls to post them up otherwise your just proving your a douchebag who seeks to make people feel bad about their work
> 
> ...


Learn to read. No really. Then learn to identify hyperlinks. Then learn to use google. Then, while you're at it, take a look at my avatar, just because. If you want to you can mess around in the open miniature directories on my website, conveniently located in my profile. While you're at it, supply links to your miniatures while complaining about ours.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Arquinsiel said:


> Looks to me he registered to comment on the hypocricy of someone trolling a troll and then calling that person for trolling. I like the word "Troll", it's so descriptive.


Is Cunt better?

Have fun "commenting". Also, last time I checked, Troll was noun. Trolling was a verb. Adjective? Naw missed that one matey. Also, it's "hy-poc-risy".

Lastly, where exactly did I troll? I said just stated that shit attitudes weren't welcome here.


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## Trevor Drake (Oct 25, 2008)

And that is why we all have our own opinions. Afterall, this is just a game of plastic toy soldiers, and who the fuck cares if someone wants to use other plastic toy soldiers/statues in their army, or create fluff however they choose, more power to them. Personally, I like them, they look pretty cool. To come on here and bash someone about their work, however minimal it may be, is unecessary and rude. Take that kind of shit somewhere else, we will not have it here I promise you.

Good work Doctor Thunder, and I appologize if this is the kind of bullshit you have to put up with when you do post your work.


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## Arquinsiel (Apr 29, 2008)

Vaz said:


> Is Cunt better?


Much!


Are you serious? I mean... really? If so the state of debate on this site is in far worse state than I previously believed it to be.



Vaz said:


> Have fun "commenting". Also, last time I checked, Troll was noun. Trolling was a verb. Adjective? Naw missed that one matey. Also, it's "hy-poc-risy".


Learn to use the infinitive. You've got missing the point down though, well done.



Vaz said:


> Lastly, where exactly did I troll? I said just stated that shit attitudes weren't welcome here.


VV


Vaz said:


> Also, take a look at your avatar? What's it supposed to be, some greasy haired chimpanzee with a mask on? Is that meant to mean something to anyone?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

What's there to debate? I'm stating fact.

Also, take a look at your avatar? What's it supposed to be, some greasy haired chimpanzee with a mask on? Is that meant to mean something to anyone?


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## Chaoz94 (Jun 17, 2008)

Arquinsiel said:


> Learn to read. No really. Then learn to identify hyperlinks. Then learn to use google. Then, while you're at it, take a look at my avatar, just because. If you want to you can mess around in the open miniature directories on my website, conveniently located in my profile. While you're at it, supply links to your miniatures while complaining about ours.


i havent got round to posting pics of my models yet as ive had coursework to deal with , also i was talking to The Real Rod Hull, and Agentdark 

i personally have no problem with anybody and was just trying to stick up for doctor thunder



chaoz


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## vindur (Apr 1, 2008)

Personally I don't like the models as I don't feel they fit into the aestetic of the 40K universes (of the fantasy one for that matter) but as I haven't see the rest of the army it may fit in with the theme there.
The problem I have with the model is that nothing about it really shows its a deamon. The skin colour is one that has often been used for dark elves in the past as an alternate skin tone. The 'nid plates are a little over done and are positioned oddly so that it seems that they are part of the models outfit instead of part of the deamon's body. The reason some of the above posters may think it is overtly sexualised compared to the off the shelf models is the lack of deamonic features. These are what creates the dual concept of arousal and disgust that I feel the Slanneshi deamons normally embody. Maybe using different models for the basis will make a difference e.g. inquisitor models as they do fit the aestetic of the game as a whole.




Vaz said:


> Personally, regarding Slaanesh and "borderline" porn, you've obviously not seen the existing, and the previous Daemonette models, for both 40K and Inquisitor. Breasts, piercings and suggestive poses, or Eldar females into BDSM, or where tight lycra/rubber suits are far more pornographic than a plastic "anime model" wearing a pencil skirt.


It is worth noting that in general GW is currently trying to move away from the overt sexualisation as of late and all of the models mentioned are 5+ years old. A perfect example of this is the removal of the seekers of slannesh from the shelves despite being one of the strongest FA choices in the codex. Also the majority of the wych models you seem to be refering to are actually male.



doctor thunder said:


> That's the great thing about the internet. If you don't want to see it, you don't have to click on it. :good:


That's not necessarily true. I myself only this week started a Slannesh deamon army and saw "custom keeper of secrets" and was interested in seeing if I could get some ideas for my own army. I didn't know whether I would like the models or not until after I had clicked the link.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

The issue with these, is that they knew the link, so joined to create controversy and a flame war. Which they've apparently failed. Guess I'm just too good.

Anyway, there's still overt sexuality over these - admittedly not as much as those metal miniatures, but it's still there.


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## vindur (Apr 1, 2008)

I will agree with you there but it is no where near as blatant as the old deamonettes.

As for the joining solely to flame the thread Arquinsiel joined roughly the same time as I did.


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## doctor thunder (Sep 11, 2008)

vindur said:


> That's not necessarily true. I myself only this week started a Slannesh deamon army and saw "custom keeper of secrets" and was interested in seeing if I could get some ideas for my own army. I didn't know whether I would like the models or not until after I had clicked the link.


Yes, that is a good point. I was referring specifically to Agentdark who is familiar with my work and already knew he would hate it if he clicked on the link, but did so anyway.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Arquinsiel said:


> Learn to use the infinitive. You've got missing the point down though, well done.


Much like you. I guess? Missing the point that I apparently trolled, so intentionally then intentionally trolled. Nice one, on being about as obtuse as a wall and as dense as a brick. Glad you like my straight forward approach, though. Gets the job done. Are we finished now? Good.

As always Doctor Thunder, I like that you've gone forward with the effort of creating a model that's as unique as these. And correct decision on closing the thread back over there. I think any mod, had they any common sense would have closed it with the abuse directed there, regardless of it being their own or not.


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## Arquinsiel (Apr 29, 2008)

Vaz said:


> Much like you. I guess? Missing the point that I apparently trolled, so intentionally then intentionally trolled. Nice one, on being about as obtuse as a wall and as dense as a brick. Glad you like my straight forward approach, though. Gets the job done. Are we finished now? Good.


 Not even close. Read the Warseer thread. Every point you make in defence of the OP has been countered there. This thread is rather similar but with ad-hominem attacks and even shoddier standards of spelling and grammar. Hence the initial missed point. On the other hand, keep on going the way you are going. I don't actually have any hope of convincing you of the concept of another rational viewpoint existing, nor would you respond in anything less than your thusfar displayed manner if I by some miracle did.


Vaz said:


> I think any mod, had they any common sense would have closed it with the abuse directed there, regardless of it being their own or not.


The reason the thread was re-opened is that the mods had examined it and found there to be no actual abuse, merely contrary opinions to what is known as "the Warseer circle-jerk" in many places. It's sad to see it being repeated here.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Apparently people are always missing your points. Why not try and be a bit more clear with your points?

Also, the points I make in the OP's defence... the main one... is that it's original. Also - if there was no abuse, why was yours, among others, deleted for it? As for my points in defence, link me to an answer for it from that thread. Please, no do it. I'd love to be proved wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. 

Also, this Warseer Circle Jerk? Seems to be true. From what we've seen of the majority of it's members, it's quite a good indication.

Then, there's the comments over Free Speech. Fuck it, I'm in the best possible position to know about Free Speech. Constitutionally protected? Fuck that, I could be racist, and attempt the Free Speech, but not be allowed off a criminal record. Get with the program.

There's a policy that Heresy Online has. It's Constructive Criticism. You want to criticize, you have to tell them how to improve. Which, fundamentally, the three of you have failed to do. Rod Hull, this is mainly aimed at - don't complain about people requesting courteous comments, when you yourself are seemingly incapable of making them yourself. Those who live in Glass Houses, and all that. And which nail to hit first? The most important one. The one which is the staple to the construction. Does a roofer fill the roofspace with Insulation before attaching the thatch, or the slate? In this construction, or forum, if you're going to continue to be obtuse, it's about constructive criticism. Hence, if you have nothing worth while to say, over how to improve something say nothing. Yes, I'm a victim of my own hypocrisy. But during my stay at this forum, regardless of how short it may be in future, I know that I was at least able to provide insight into how someone could improve an army list, or develop their tactics. What have YOU done? Very little, actually, looking at previous posts. First impressions are usually the only ones that interest people.

Lastly, if the mods saw fit to open it again... why's it now closed?


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## Arquinsiel (Apr 29, 2008)

Vaz said:


> Also, the points I make in the OP's defence... the main one... is that it's original. Also - if there was no abuse, why was yours, among others, deleted for it? As for my points in defence, link me to an answer for it from that thread. Please, no do it. I'd love to be proved wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.


Read it.



Vaz said:


> Also, this Warseer Circle Jerk? Seems to be true. From what we've seen of the majority of it's members, it's quite a good indication.


Read it.



Vaz said:


> Then, there's the comments over Free Speech. Fuck it, I'm in the best possible position to know about Free Speech. Constitutionally protected? Fuck that, I could be racist, and attempt the Free Speech, but not be allowed off a criminal record. Get with the program.


Read it. Also check that you're not in the USA.



Vaz said:


> There's a policy that Heresy Online has. It's Constructive Criticism. You want to criticize, you have to tell them how to improve. Which, fundamentally, the three of you have failed to do.


Read it. 



Vaz said:


> And which nail to hit first? The most important one. The one which is the staple to the construction. Does a roofer fill the roofspace with Insulation before attaching the thatch, or the slate? In this construction, or forum, if you're going to continue to be obtuse, it's about constructive criticism.


It was a dumb metaphor, but I worked with what I was given. The gist of the arguement was also mentioned elsewhere. It's not so much a standing nail as one of many reinforced stereotypes. 



Vaz said:


> Hence, if you have nothing worth while to say, over how to improve something say nothing.


Be less sexual. Explore the rest of Slaanesh. IE: the thread linked to. On another note, read the OP again. Note the specific request for no C&C. It's that which is causing such vehement C&C I would wager.



Vaz said:


> Yes, I'm a victim of my own hypocrisy. But during my stay at this forum, regardless of how short it may be in future, I know that I was at least able to provide insight into how someone could improve an army list, or develop their tactics. What have YOU done? Very little, actually, looking at previous posts. First impressions are usually the only ones that interest people.


Look elsewhere. I invited Doctor Thunder to do the same when called on registering there. Specifically I suggested he would like to talk to Darkprincess on Druchii.net for pointers on making Slaaneshi things. 



Vaz said:


> Lastly, if the mods saw fit to open it again... why's it now closed?


Seriously, just read it. It's even on the first page.


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## The Real Rod Hull (Jun 5, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Lastly, if the mods saw fit to open it again... why's it now closed?


I'm going to ignore the body of your post because, frankly, I have no interest in engaging with a derail orchestrated by a self-confessed hypocrite.

I (and others) sugested to Doctor Thunder that if he did not want people to comment upon his work or offer constructive criticism then he should set up a read only gallery to avoid the danger of being exposed to people's oppinions. Or, failing that, perhaps he should consider simply close this threads as soon as he posts them.

He chose to close the thread there to preempt any more discussion about the quality of the material he submitted. Personally I think that is unfortunate as the whole point of displaying your work is to excite comment upon it.
I firmly believe that if someone says they think something is bad and why then you should take it on board and consider their reasons even if you end up discarding them. Unfortunately Doctor Thunder chose to declare himself the victim of a grand conspiracy and put his hands over his ears.

That is why that thread is closed.


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## Agentdark (Oct 11, 2008)

I cant speak for all of the other critics, but I've told Doctor Thunder Via PM, I would have far less objections if the basic question why was answered. 

Why not explore other aspects of Slaanesh? 
I have the Liber Chaotica Slaanesh Volume on my desk, I would even be happy to take questions if it would mean some interesting models that would be Slaaneshi, just not the sexual aspects of Slaanesh. 
Why do Female Guardsmen need to be in Hotpants and Tank Tops?
Why do female Space Marines need size D cups on armor when such a thing is not really practical? 

So on and so forth.


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## Weirdboyz (Apr 12, 2009)

So you would be less offended if he modeled some male demon with syringes hanging out of its arm? 

Or if he modeled Daemonettes with iPod headphones in their ears?

I would go so far to argue that other aspects of Slaneesh are not modeled because: 
A) It is hard to model them effectively. How do you model sense worship and excess effectively? Sadly, lust/sex is the easiest to accomplish with a recognizable result that people who don't have the Liber Slaneesh whatever could still recognize.
B) Because some of the other darker aspects of Slaneesh worship/focus may truly offend people if they were placed on the table.

Ok, so he took anime models and did some conversions. The best I have seen, no. The worst, no. Are they really cause for such massive vehmence? No. Are they reasons to start a 4 page flame war just because they have boobs and dresses on? Hell no. :scare:

Or are people just angry because they don't have 7 boobs, nipple rings, and other unmentionables like the GW versions do?


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## Arquinsiel (Apr 29, 2008)

Weirdboyz said:


> So you would be less offended if he modeled some male demon with syringes hanging out of its arm?


I think that was what they were going for with suggesting Inquisitor models. The Assassin sisters and the Arco-flagellants both have obvious IV systems. Remember after all, Fabius Bile is an Emperor's Children marine....



Weirdboyz said:


> Or if he modeled Daemonettes with iPod headphones in their ears?


That'd be kind of amusing really, I'd like to see it.



Weirdboyz said:


> I would go so far to argue that other aspects of Slaneesh are not modeled because:
> A) It is hard to model them effectively. How do you model sense worship and excess effectively? Sadly, lust/sex is the easiest to accomplish with a recognizable result that people who don't have the Liber Slaneesh whatever could still recognize.











I'd do it like this. Suggests an over-active appetite and a delusional sense of vanity to me, fits quite well in my opinion.


Weirdboyz said:


> B) Because some of the other darker aspects of Slaneesh worship/focus may truly offend people if they were placed on the table.


This truly offends some people. Some for introducing more anime aesthetics to 40k, which are rather contrary to the grimdark, and others for the implied objectification et. Whether this is because of a general objection to how the hobby handles it or as a reaction to the OP's tendancy to do it regularly when inappropriate is up for debate. If it were possible I would put good money on the reactions to these being different if the OP's Black Widows were not in the group consciousness. In some ways truly offending people means you have succeeded I suppose, so, um, yay?



Weirdboyz said:


> Or are people just angry because they don't have 7 boobs, nipple rings, and other unmentionables like the GW versions do?


I actually prefer the old-style mono-boob hermaphrodites, with bonus points if the head grows from where the other breast should be (and is goat-like, which is a reference to the classical image of Baphomet and H.R. Giger's work [which in itself is damn uncomfortable to look at... dude is messed up]).

[EDIT]Now that I think about it, I rather like the idea of having a heroin-chic daemon-prince with implanted headphones and/or some form of bionic eyes/whatever with an iPod stuck into the chest and heavy augmetics which suggest USB attachments and suchlike... god-dammit...


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

I'm closing this topic because of the off topic arguing. i've issued 3 infractions thanks to this one topic. If you want to discuss this more, create a new (constructive) thread or take it to PMs or chat.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

And for the record, personal attacks are *never* tolerated here at Heresy.

If you don't like someone's work, then (constructively) criticize the work. Don't like their opinion, then disagree with their opinion. You do NOT come onto Heresy and attack our members because you don't like them, or don't care for their work or opinions. That's the fast track to ban-town


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