# Chapterhouse 'TRU-Scale Knight Praetorius Kit'



## Red Corsairs (Jun 8, 2008)

After all that they've been going through with GW recently, I believe this is a stupid move. But hey, I'll post it for those who are interested.

They are very limited quantity at the moment and will hold the main release for the new conversion kit for True Scale Space Marines (no I'm sorry, TRU-Scale Knight Praetorius I meant, how could I be so silly) next month, that's if they haven't been shut down before then...

http://chapterhousestudios.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=128&product_id=204











> Please note we have a very limited number of these kits currently onhand, we are expecting a main release date of March 5th, 2012 and any orders placed before then will be filled on a first-come first serve basis once stock arrives.
> 
> The "Knights Praetorius" are the Empress' most loyal soldiers. Each is endowed with a touch of the Empress' psychic powers when admitted into the unit. While few in number, each is a match for 10 lesser men, the psychic unity with the Empress allows a measure of prescience as well as formidable endurance. Both men and woman are allowed to test to join the unit, but few survive this testing.
> 
> ...


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

Well, at least they've not used any GW terminology I guess. . . 

Although it's pretty clear from the pictures they just cast up some green stuffed marine parts. I mean the quality really does look awful, even for chapterhouse! It just looks really amateur-ish, not something I'd consider spending my money on.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Words escape me :suicide:


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## infernalcaretaker (Nov 12, 2008)

It _is_ only the legs torsos and backpacks they are selling, and the quality aside _technically_ they aren't breaching copyright... are they? Feel free to tell me i'm wrong... ¬¬ 

It's all rather amusing really...


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## Ultra1 (Mar 10, 2011)

so would you have to get the heads weapons and arms from chapterhouse, or would the GW ones fit? it's not 100% clear to me in their post. BTW i'd love to have true scale space marines.


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## Red Corsairs (Jun 8, 2008)

True they have not used any GW terminology so they might get away with it. But if you look on their site the rest of their products are all just, 'Imperial Guard Compatible Bits', 'Eldar Compatible Kits' or some other form of complete copy. It's for these that GW have been on their ass before so at least from the new release they have learnt their lesson.



Ultra1 said:


> so would you have to get the heads weapons and arms from chapterhouse, or would the GW ones fit? it's not 100% clear to me in their post. BTW i'd love to have true scale space marines.


I assume GW bits will also fit, but after their recent trouble with GW I doubt they have the nerve to mention that now :laugh:


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Aaaaaahahahaha, clever little fucks. I am not quite sure if these are breaking any rules, but they actually look pretty frisking sweet. I might pick up a few.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Meh... with a little time and some green stuff, you could easily convert this stuff yourself for a fraction of the cost. 

Seriously though... CH is starting to get rather cheeky now. Terminology used or not, this is going to be another nail in their coffin.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

GrizBe said:


> Seriously though... CH is starting to get rather cheeky now. Terminology used or not, this is going to be another nail in their coffin.


I agree whole-heartedly. At this point they are just showing their ass to GW, seeing what they can get away with, while giving them the old fuck you. Not a big fan of the kit, but their cheek is truely amusing.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i think they are trying to cash in there chips before the casino closes


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> i think they are trying to cash in there chips before the casino closes


Wrong yet again. 

Interesting that you dont hate monger on Scibor, Anvil Miniatures and the other parties doing Armored Steam Knights, but keep going you are entertaining at the least.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

chapterhousestudios said:


> Wrong yet again.
> 
> Interesting that you dont hate monger on Scibor, Anvil Miniatures and the other parties doing Armored Steam Knights, but keep going you are entertaining at the least.


Really? Let's see...Scibor does custom sculpts one at a time that are GW inspired. Anvil Miniatures Steam Knights armor looks nothing like GW 40k Space Marine power armor though it is surely inspired by it. Both of these entities produce items that are 40K *INSPIRED*. The Chapterhouse stuff (just the legs mind you) is just a blatant rip off that's been scaled up in size. It's like they didn't even try to create anything their own. 

I don't hate Chapterhouse. In fact I love some of their stuff where originality is seen. The tru scale back packs look like original sculpts I like the sideways venting on those. GW does not do that. The jetbike looks like an original sculpt as well.

(I'm speaking about Chapterhouse in 3rd person because I am not sure what your relationship to them is.)


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

pathwinder14 said:


> Really? Let's see...Scibor does custom sculpts one at a time that are GW inspired. Anvil Miniatures Steam Knights armor looks nothing like GW 40k Space Marine power armor. It is surely inspired by it though.
> 
> Both entities above produce items that are 40K *INSPIRED*. The Chapterhouse stuff is just a blatant rip off that's been scaled up in size. It's like they didn't even try to create anything their own.
> 
> (I'm speaking about them in 3rd person because I am not sure what your relationship to chapterhouse is.)


pretty much this... and we arent hate mongering. To be quite honest the things said are pretty tame for the Heresy crowd. Keep up with the attitude and you will see the hate mongering commence. 

That being said it isn't your (assuming you are infact a Chapterhouse Representative) products arent in question here as in and of themselves most of them are not bad. I own a few myself, however we are all pretty amazed at the circumstances you keep tossing yourself in going up against GW on IP stuff. You have taken the bull by the horns my friend, expect people to talk about it.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

chapterhousestudios said:


> Wrong yet again.
> 
> Interesting that you dont hate monger on Scibor, Anvil Miniatures and the other parties doing Armored Steam Knights, but keep going you are entertaining at the least.


Most third party manufacturers rip off GW and many make kits interchangeable with GW parts. But they all have the sense to name them something differently, as you have done with this new kit. 

It's the fact that up until now you've been using GW names to promote your product, add into that your refusal to admit that what you're doing isn't right (the naming, not the products themselves) and it makes public oppionion plummet. 

If you would have just used different names from the start and only _alluded_ to their use with GW kits or in GW games, you wouldn't have any of the problems you have now (ala, public opinion)


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## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

bad kit, bad business, bad attitude.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

the-ad-man said:


> bad kit, bad business, bad attitude.


While I agree with you on all three,

I think it's only right you give reasons, you're statement adds nothing to the discussion. And that applies to anyone who makes comments like that. I'm guilty of it too  But when we don't like something, we should give a reason why if we're going to bother to respond. 

Even if you just say what it is in particular you don't like about the kit?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

@chapterhouse,
Yeah, but the difference between chapterhouse and those companies is that, as far as i am aware, those companies don't currently have the collective shlongs of GW's entire legal team shoved thoroughly up their asses. I believe that is where the whole falling casino thing came from.


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## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> While I agree with you on all three,
> 
> I think it's only right you give reasons, you're statement adds nothing to the discussion.
> 
> Even if you just say what it is in particular you don't like about the kit?


ok, while i think bad attitude and bad business speak for themselves, i'll look at the kit.

the shoulder pads seem wonky and uneven (top right in the bit photos), the studs don't seem to be in line, not one edge appears to be a straight line. 

the torsos are flat and boring, just because they cant have the aquilla(or any other imperial insignia) on doesn't mean the chest has to be empty, and the backpacks crummy looking bricks. 

over all the kit doesn't appear to be very clean, the legs in particular seem to have all sorts of nonsense going on in the recesses(most notably the upwards facing calf on the kneeling legs)


[edit] 
also, why does the promo photo have to have bits from other studios? isn't Ch's range big enough to build 5 complete space marines?


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

The sad part is I like the Chapterhouse Marine compatible heads. I like the jetbike. I like the shields. Even the Iconoclast conversion kit is nice. Using GW copyrighted names for marine chapters and xenos armies is just sad. 

My question is, does chapterhouse do it to improve their SEO rankings? That seems to be the only obvious answer. If they were more creative and at least tried to make up new names like future marines, future bugs, future greenskins, etc. they would be a lot better off legally but their rankings might suffer.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Got to agree with the Ad Man, the sculpts are pretty poor. They're wonky, poorly cast and look amateurish. 
Why bother trying to copy Space Marines when you can't do them as well as GW already do?


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Pathwinder and Ad-Man pretty much nailed it.... Other companies stuff is origional and not blatent rip-offs, or poorly sculpted. Heck, do we need to mention the stumpy legs on the Farseer... sorry, hastily renamed 'doomseer'? Or that the storm raven coversion kit was a copy of a fans project for extending his own stormraven, or that the Jetbikes are pretty much copied from the origional jetbikes? 

Its no wonder people are rooting for CH to fail when he keeps comming into forums and threatening people...


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

You all know I'm no GW fan, and defended CHS's putting out kits in a more timely manner than GW did. But still, those marine (let's not call a rose by any other name!) bitz are not very good. 

I'll buy anything that I can use in a GW game that isn't made by GW, on the condition that the quality is pretty much equal. Unfortunately, we have a "miss" here...

By the way, did you know that "space marines" and "tyranids" are not registered in Canada? "Warhammer" and "Warhammer 40,000" are. The potential for mischief is high here. I almost considered registering "Space Marine" and sculpting some greenstuff space dude just to see how GW would respond...

Phil


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

I'll be honest, I don't hate these, The sculpts don't look that bad, and would probably fit a pre heresy style army, I'm thinking death guard

What I don't like is the price, for the amount of money I can get a set of pre heresy style marines from forgeworld, which are better and cleaner sculpts

The painting on these is pretty awful though, lighter colours will naturally highlight any issues with the figures



As regards CH comments in this thread - don't expect to put out a product and everyone love it, we flame gw products with frequent regularity as well, we are concerned about the quality of goods, which we have to pay a not inconsiderable amount for, we are not a bunch of fanboy yes men, forums are about the expression of opinion, good bad and ugly!


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## Justindkates (Apr 30, 2010)

I love my storm raven conversion kit. I can field it with dignity now that it doesn't look like a thunder chicken anymore. 

Hey more power to them.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

In all honesty, those sculpts look pretty shit. 

The legs look like they will crumble apart. The shoulders pads look like someone took a SM shoulder pad and smashed some glue/green stuff on to them. The chests look like someone cut them flat and added some studs to them, and the backpacks look outright horrible. 

And the "fluff" behind these "Knight Praetorius" dudes is just horrid. Seriously?!


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## Ultra1 (Mar 10, 2011)

i thought the models looked ok at first glance, but really who cares about their fluff. do you really believe the company wanted them to be used for anything other than GW space marines? they simply took 5 minutes so they could claim them something other than space marines and avoid lawsuits. they're not trying to create their own sci fi world so to me the fluff makes no difference. they will always be space marines in the eyes of anyone who'd buy them.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Ultra1 said:


> i thought the models looked ok at first glance, but really who cares about their fluff. do you really believe the company wanted them to be used for anything other than GW space marines? they simply took 5 minutes so they could claim them something other than space marines and avoid lawsuits. they're not trying to create their own sci fi world so to me the fluff makes no difference. they will always be space marines in the eyes of anyone who'd buy them.


That's exactly the point. Up until now CHS have been ripping off GW's IP and have been pulled into court over it by GW's legal team. This is a not so subtle snipe back at GW and CHS thinking they are being clever. 

All of which is my opinion, of course.


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## Ultra1 (Mar 10, 2011)

agreed completely, i was just responding to the comment that the fluff they created was crap. my comment boiled down to "who cares that their fluff was crap, it was never meant to be taken seriously to begin with."


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

The ones with the studs looks horrid, the rest are not too bad, except the backpack. And to clear something up, they could in fact use the Aquila if they wanted, it is not copyrighted as it has been in use for thousands of years.

@Chapterhouse, wanna know what costs you more business then anything, your shit ass attitude you use when you come here. This time was not to bad but most of the time you seem like a royal cunt and even though I like your product I second guess telling people about it or buying it myself because of the way you act. And before you start QQing, if you look back I have defended your business model in the past, thinking that conversion and upgrade kits should be allowed.



> Aquila is the Latin and Romance language word for eagle and may also refer to:





> An aquila was the standard of a Roman legion formed in the shape of an eagle, which was carried by a special grade legionary known as an Aquilifer (aquila-bearer). One eagle standard was carried by each legion.
> The eagle standard was extremely important to the Roman military, beyond merely being a symbol of a legion. A lost standard was considered an extremely grave occurrence, and the Roman military often went to great lengths to both protect a standard and to recover it if lost; for example, see the aftermath of the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, where the Romans spent decades attempting to recover the lost standards of three legions.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> The ones with the studs looks horrid, the rest are not too bad, except the backpack. And to clear something up, they could in fact use the Aquila if they wanted, it is not copyrighted as it has been in use for thousands of years.
> 
> @Chapterhouse, wanna know what costs you more business then anything, your shit ass attitude you use when you come here. This time was not to bad but most of the time you seem like a royal cunt and even though I like your product I second guess telling people about it or buying it myself because of the way you act. And before you start QQing, if you look back I have defended your business model in the past, thinking that conversion and upgrade kits should be allowed.


My response was tailored to Bits and Kits, I thought that was evident by me quoting him. Everything he has said about my business and the legalaties of it has been wrong. Otherwise do you think the court case would still be going on with no clear winner.

I do not know what it is about this forum in particular, but this is the only one where 75% are very negative and harsh posters. Maybe its the region, who knows. You can read all the other forums and see if my thoughts are true or not.

It truly is like a lynch mob in here. Even when someone says something positive, posters seem to jump on them and insist they are wrong.

Let us be honest here, nothing can be done or said to change that attitude on this forum. Even before I started posting here, there was that negative opinion. Even Jezlad has noted this in a post regarding Chapterhouse.

Which is too bad, because I really do value everyone and their opinions, I just tell me people the truth regarding it all.

Nick


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

chapterhousestudios said:


> My response was tailored to Bits and Kits, I thought that was evident by me quoting him. Everything he has said about my business and the legalaties of it has been wrong. Otherwise do you think the court case would still be going on with no clear winner.
> 
> I do not know what it is about this forum in particular, but this is the only one where 75% are very negative and harsh posters. Maybe its the region, who knows. You can read all the other forums and see if my thoughts are true or not.
> 
> ...


What started the negative attitude was your own attitude towards B&K mate. He wasn't hate mongering, he was making a statement. One that not all, but many of us share. We don't sugar coat things here on Heresy. If we have something to say, we say it. We have lots of threads that are very positive about new products and other companies, including an entire subforum dedicated to companies that produce wargaming products. Just because all those other forums tell you what you want to hear, doesn't mean we are going to stroke you off when you show up here. We will give you an honest opinion about what we think of your product, just like we do every other Mini or hobby product that crosses through the boards. Don't get butt hurt because not everyone likes your stuff. 

We calls 'em, likes we sees 'em.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

chapterhousestudios said:


> I do not know what it is about this forum in particular, but this is the only one where 75% are very negative and harsh posters. Maybe its the region, who knows. You can read all the other forums and see if my thoughts are true or not.
> 
> It truly is like a lynch mob in here. Even when someone says something positive, posters seem to jump on them and insist they are wrong.
> 
> ...


People are telling you the truth, a large portion of people here (by the posts in the this thread and others) aren't a fan of your products, or, evidently, your attitudes. 

You say you want feedback, well there has been feedback posted! I have said that I think the overall quality of all your sculpts is poor and not to a standard that I'd be willing to pay for. 

Heresy is an easy going crowd, there's plenty of praise for all sorts of companies (just head over to the WMM section to see an example) but if we see a product we don't like, we won't lie and bullshit. And some people have said they like the look of your stuff. 

You need to consider that there is this seemingly large group of people that have a problem with your product. Why is that? You'd be better served making a thread with a poll so you can get our feedback on your products to get a structured response. 

We all want to see 3rd party companies succeed, but if you want our custom and money, you have to take into account the feedback you receive.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> People are telling you the truth, a large portion of people here (by the posts in the this thread and others) aren't a fan of your products, or, evidently, your attitudes.
> 
> You say you want feedback, well there has been feedback posted! I have said that I think the overall quality of all your sculpts is poor and not to a standard that I'd be willing to pay for.
> 
> ...


Ill have to disagree with you on the "large group of people" part, and Im only saying that because I know my customer base and the size of it. 

There are folks who take the GW vs CHS part personally, and there are some that see how I market our items as again, wrong.

Saying that, many of the post in this thread are not about quality, but again, just "they are wrong, they need to burn" sort of post.

I do read and consider every post about quality, sculpts etc. Now saying that, from the number of inquiries and orders for the new kits, there are an equally or even larger amount of folks that like the products.

So I take both hand in hand.

I think its a bit silly to expect me to take the off-hand negative post as constructive in the same way of a post that actually post what they view is wrong with the product/sculpt/quality. I dont admonish the real critics at all, just the ones that seem to "hate" with no real reason that is evident.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

chapterhousestudios said:


> Ill have to disagree with you on the "large group of people" part, and Im only saying that because I know my customer base and the size of it.
> 
> There are folks who take the GW vs CHS part personally, and there are some that see how I market our items as again, wrong.
> 
> ...


I hate to say it but the quality is what bugs me....this marine stuff just doesn't look very good to compared to a GW kit and has half the parts.....


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

chapterhousestudios said:


> I think its a bit silly to expect me to take the off-hand negative post as constructive in the same way of a post that actually post what they view is wrong with the product/sculpt/quality. I dont admonish the real critics at all, just the ones that seem to "hate" with no real reason that is evident.


I think the people that "hate" with no real reason either:

A) Don't like the product OR
B) Don't like what's been going on with GW.

No one hates with *no* reason. 

I myself never really had a problem with the way your company did things, until this business with GW started and you seemed so insistent that you'd done nothing wrong. If you would have avoided using GW terms (dark angel land raider doors for example) I would never have had a problem with you, I would just never have brought your products.

And the reason I've never purchased any of your products is because I think the quality simply isn't there for the money. The only kit I like is the stormraven kit, which I think actually looks really good, and solved the biggest problem with the original kit. 

When you have 9 people saying they like your product and 1 saying they hate it, that 1 person's feedback is the most important of all. True, you can't please everyone, but it could be with each of your products, that 10% of potential customers are always complaining about the same thing (hypothetical example: poor photo presentation and colour scheme choice) 

You grow as a company in the long term, being surrounded by "yes men" forum posters is no good to you, they might all say "yeah it looks good" but then still not buy it. You'd have no sales and no reason why.

I'm not trying to be intentionally hostile towards you, it's just at the moment, you don't produce anything that A) I need for my armies, B) anything I think is high enough quality for me to spend my money on (stormraven example aside)

If you were to announce tomorrow that you were going to produce 30mm scale werewolves of a high quality (an item I _need_) I'd snap them up off you lickety split.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> I think the people that "hate" with no real reason either:
> 
> A) Don't like the product OR
> B) Don't like what's been going on with GW.
> ...


I can completely appreciate that point of view.

Still, are customers who never really have an intention of purchasing ones items truly customers, or something else entirely?

Every person who has ordered my items can attest, if they have issues with them I do everything in my power to help them out and make them happy. Should one put that effort into pleasing folks who from their words and attitudes truly have no intention of being customers and just want the world to hear how unhappy they are?

It is an issue every business owner has had from the start of commerce.

Thank you for being true and actually conversing with me.

Nick


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> Although it's pretty clear from the pictures they just cast up some green stuffed marine parts. I mean the quality really does look awful, even for chapterhouse! It just looks really amateur-ish, not something I'd consider spending my money on.





GrizBe said:


> Meh... with a little time and some green stuff, you could easily convert this stuff yourself for a fraction of the cost.





the-ad-man said:


> ok, while i think bad attitude and bad business speak for themselves, i'll look at the kit.
> 
> the shoulder pads seem wonky and uneven (top right in the bit photos), the studs don't seem to be in line, not one edge appears to be a straight line.
> 
> ...





normtheunsavoury said:


> Got to agree with the Ad Man, the sculpts are pretty poor. They're wonky, poorly cast and look amateurish.
> Why bother trying to copy Space Marines when you can't do them as well as GW already do?





Barnster said:


> I'll be honest, I don't hate these, The sculpts don't look that bad, and would probably fit a pre heresy style army, I'm thinking death guard
> 
> What I don't like is the price, for the amount of money I can get a set of pre heresy style marines from forgeworld, which are better and cleaner sculpts
> 
> ...





Doelago said:


> In all honesty, those sculpts look pretty shit.
> 
> The legs look like they will crumble apart. The shoulders pads look like someone took a SM shoulder pad and smashed some glue/green stuff on to them. The chests look like someone cut them flat and added some studs to them, and the backpacks look outright horrible.
> 
> And the "fluff" behind these "Knight Praetorius" dudes is just horrid. Seriously?!





Azkaellon said:


> I hate to say it but the quality is what bugs me....this marine stuff just doesn't look very good to compared to a GW kit and has half the parts.....


There you are. Plenty of quotes detailing what people think about your kit.



chapterhousestudios said:


> Ill have to disagree with you on the "large group of people" part, and Im only saying that because I know my customer base and the size of it.
> 
> There are folks who take the GW vs CHS part personally, and there are some that see how I market our items as again, wrong.
> 
> ...


Obviously you don't want the negative comments as you just call us out for being hate mongers and commenting on the fact that this whole forum just has a negative attitude. 

You get bad press because of how your company flouts its product, and basically your business model, whereas it might be successful, taunts GW into going after you. Business practices at GW have changed since you jumped on the scene, everyone knows it, everyone follows it. As Reaper said if you had just called your products something different, like all the other 3rd party companies were smart enough to do, I guarantee that you would have a lot less negative feedback. 

Again, I want to say that many of your products I find good. I own several and, despite this fiasco of a conversation, plan on buying more. Just don't come around, ask for feed back, then call us a bunch of negative nellies for not liking either your approach to the IP issues or you products. The courts will determine were you stand as far as IP violations, but until then, expect to have people down on you because of the way you have gone about things.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

chapterhousestudios said:


> I can completely appreciate that point of view.
> 
> Still, are customers who never really have an intention of purchasing ones items truly customers, or something else entirely?
> 
> ...


Ah, you're first question is a very appropriate one. On the one hand, if they have no intention of buying your product they are not truly customers no. But engaging with them can still be just as useful. Everyone in the hobby wants _something_ to be released (as with my werewolf example) and by talking to the people who don't want the products you currently produce, you can get a sense of what other people want. It could be they want something that you may consider making, thus making them potential customers and expanding your customer base. And in this community, a model making company that engages with the customer and asks them what they'd like to see is always appreciated. 

And you're most welcome for the conversation. While I may not like your product or necessarily agree with how you've done some things, it doesn't mean I should give you random abuse  This forum is a friendly place for the most part ( a lot friendlier than a lot of other places once you're used to us :S) And if in the future you bring out a good quality product that I have need of, then I will purchase from you. At the end of the day, as long as I (the customer) am getting the products I want, then I'm happy. And the more 3rd party companies the better!

Personally, I would like to see you start to produce something outside of the direct GW influences; such as the walker you released, although perhaps something more affordable  And over time, as more non direct GW counterparts were released, people may stop with the GW "leech" argument.


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## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

i have to agree, if someone has no intention of buying from you, it is wrong to write that person off entirely, since people will still offer opinions on things.

for example, i often recommend puppetswar because i love their models, have a great and involved facebook presence and respond very well to criticism.

now i have never bought from them(or any 3rd party studios) but if i did, it would be from them because they conduct themselves is a very good manner 

now i hope you all could understand that, its difficult to type and gobble puppetswar's cock at the same time


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> Ah, you're first question is a very appropriate one. On the one hand, if they have no intention of buying your product they are not truly customers no. But engaging with them can still be just as useful. Everyone in the hobby wants _something_ to be released (as with my werewolf example) and by talking to the people who don't want the products you currently produce, you can get a sense of what other people want. It could be they want something that you may consider making, thus making them potential customers and expanding your customer base. And in this community, a model making company that engages with the customer and asks them what they'd like to see is always appreciated.
> 
> And you're most welcome for the conversation. While I may not like your product or necessarily agree with how you've done some things, it doesn't mean I should give you random abuse  This forum is a friendly place for the most part ( a lot friendlier than a lot of other places once you're used to us :S) And if in the future you bring out a good quality product that I have need of, then I will purchase from you. At the end of the day, as long as I (the customer) am getting the products I want, then I'm happy. And the more 3rd party companies the better!
> 
> Personally, I would like to see you start to produce something outside of the direct GW influences; such as the walker you released, although perhaps something more affordable  And over time, as more non direct GW counterparts were released, people may stop with the GW "leech" argument.


Well said:goodpost:


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

You know I think you are missing an opportunity as was pointed out earlier. If you were to design some mini's and post polls to vote on sell-ability it could net you more customers and increased sales. Many of us have or are interested in starting pre-heresy armies IMO. The problem is for me is that the great FW models are bleeding to expensive. If you were to design quality, affordable mark VI and older mini's we would likely buy IMO>

Doc


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Want to know why I hate Chapterhouse? When a guy busts onto a forum and threatens to sue people for libel for making constructive comments about his products quality... well then that guys an assholes. Valuing peoples opinions when your threatening them for making valid points? Yeah... i can see that...

Seriously. He's earned himself absolutely no friends around here with his threats against people and general poor attitude. Hell, to start with, I was all for pointing out how he could improve his products and not infringe on GW's IP... Now, I couldn't care less if GW doesn't even leave him with the shirt on his back. 

Doing shit like he's doing now with blatent design copying and swipes at GW fluff... thats really dumb when your in the middle of a court case.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

GrizBe said:


> Want to know why I hate Chapterhouse? When a guy busts onto a forum and threatens to sue people for libel for making constructive comments about his products quality... well then that guys an assholes. Valuing peoples opinions when your threatening them for making valid points? Yeah... i can see that...
> 
> Seriously. He's earned himself absolutely no friends around here with his threats against people and general poor attitude. Hell, to start with, I was all for pointing out how he could improve his products and not infringe on GW's IP... Now, I couldn't care less if GW doesn't even leave him with the shirt on his back.
> 
> Doing shit like he's doing now with blatent design copying and swipes at GW fluff... thats really dumb when your in the middle of a court case.


To answer GrizBe, where did I ever threaten to sue someone for Libel?

Pointing out that something someone says can be held Libel and threatening to sue someone over it are two completely different things in my opinion.

Hey, thats not true, slanderouse and Libel!

Hey, I am going to sue you over libel talk and slander!

See the difference?

If you do not, I cant help that. Again If I did that please show me where and I will appologize for it, as I never meant to do threaten to sue someone.

Half of this "hatemongering" I believe is from people over reacting, but hey this is the internet, so it happens all I can do is listen to the "constructive" critics like the ones posted above and ignore the ones that just like to be heard.

GrizBe, please show me where I did what your suggesting so I can make amends. Honestly I think you read something wrongly. Immortal, yeah see, there is "hate" going around, and it is blind for the most part..

Nick


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

OK,

Some stuff in the pipeline, thoughts?

The railgun arms are for the blue boys, alternative for those players.

The storm troopers are pretty done, just being cleaned up. I think they should do ok.

Also a female commisar we are trying to salvage, definetely not the hot commisar image most companies go with, but I think certain customers will like her. I think the head needs to go lower (even though its hauberk armor I believe, the neck needs to be shorter?).


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

My opinions, nice drawings but I don't like the commissar as its totally out of proportion.


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## Dusty's Corner (Aug 25, 2008)

munch munch opcorn:

Well I thought I by now would say that; when I first heard about Chapterhouse as a business, I was worried. Here was competition that were doing similar things to what I was working on, in particular I was doing a Rhino conversion aka Bronco. When they released their kits, I then saw the problems they faced and I chickened out of that idea to pursue my own things. I'm glad I did as I now move in different circles to them and in many ways stepping away from GW. And to be honest, it's not that hard.
You guys had me up many nights with anxiety. Those were the days lol.

But I must say that as someone trying to move in similar ways within the industry, I do not agree with Chapterhouse's general attitude towards people let alone the industry as a whole. Sorry, but you guys aren't really bringing anything 'new' into this world which is why a lot of your work just seems like rip-off's and knock-offs. Instead it seems the success of your business is not due to the quality of your product or service, but by finding loop holes and shortcuts. Ok it's good to see that things are developing, but it's hard to see where credit is due.

And as mentioned by others that even though not all people are customers, being hostile towards even the 'haters' will earn you bad rep. And when added with word-of-mouth and powers of the internet, it speaks volumes. I spend time in chatrooms (probably too much time), but I get to not only be in-touch with people, but hear the crap that goes on and I would be lying if I said I’ve never heard any complaints about Chapterhouse. Even if I weren't into business, I wouldn't trust bringing my custom to your business.

It's been fascinating watching Chapterhouse grow and has taught me much about business and people. 
I wish you all the best of luck


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Dusty's Corner said:


> munch munch opcorn:
> 
> Well I thought I by now would say that; when I first heard about Chapterhouse as a business, I was worried. Here was competition that were doing similar things to what I was working on, in particular I was doing a Rhino conversion aka Bronco. When they released their kits, I then saw the problems they faced and I chickened out of that idea to pursue my own things. I'm glad I did as I now move in different circles to them and in many ways stepping away from GW. And to be honest, it's not that hard.
> You guys had me up many nights with anxiety. Those were the days lol.
> ...


I agree with you whole-heartedly, all critisism is good critisism to be quite honest. 

I think what you guys (directed at CHS) are, is a few hobbyists who enjoyed making good looking conversions, but making these conversions on blatent copying? I'm sorry. But you're asking for GW to end up with a win on your courtcase.

Like Dusty said, good luck.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

Yeah, I agree theres something off about the Commisar. I mean that type of armor is known for making people appear out of proportions. I think the neck needs shortening.

Dusty, thank you for your thoughts. It is funny, that I tend to hear much more complimentary things about my company, just as much as the negative. Seeing my customer base and sales grow throughout the 5 years I have been around, as well as the compliments I get in emails about my customer service, it seems there is a good mixture of opinions out there.

As much as any company would love to have nothing but good graces from every possible consumer out there, is there any company out there that does?

I continue to do my best with my customers and be true to my business and myself, that is all I can do and will continue to do so.

Luck with you as well.


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## Takana77 (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm wondering why has CHS (when they feel they are 110% in the right from go) started using different jargon/lingo? It's been stated that CHS knows they are right and that GWS is completely wrong in the case? Why should they change? You don't fix something if it's not broken.

Flaunting these images/models on your store website won't win you any points with the judge who undoubtedly expects discretion throughout the duration of these legal battles so as to not cause any more "damage" in whatever form.

I'm wondering if CHS lawyers are aware of these new products and images. I doubt they'd want to piss of the judge and say yeah do it (just has an ambiance of arrogance to it sadly). And if they did you need to fire them before they throw CHS under the bus any further.

And so what if folks out on the internet have negative criticism about your space marines, or business practices for that matter. You can't expect to please 100% of the people 100% of the time. This whole ... if you don't like and buy my product, you are wrong and F' you and everything you like ... well it's just a mentallity that rubs everyone the wrong way and rightly so.

You don't see Pepsi going out and start insulting and condemning coca-cola or dr. pepper drinkers? They might kid or jest as a marketing ploy to attract customers, but never have they denigrated and insulted potential customers.

I work in architecture and design and if you want to design something and share it with the rest of the world, you have to be thick-skinned and take all the feedback that folks dish out.

Oh well, sorry to add a few drops of fuel to the fire, but the arrogance is becoming annoying and bothersome.

Tak

:victory:


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

Takana77 said:


> I'm wondering why has CHS (when they feel they are 110% in the right from go) started using different jargon/lingo? It's been stated that CHS knows they are right and that GWS is completely wrong in the case? Why should they change? You don't fix something if it's not broken.
> 
> Flaunting these images/models on your store website won't win you any points with the judge who undoubtedly expects discretion throughout the duration of these legal battles so as to not cause any more "damage" in whatever form.
> 
> ...


Tak,

What arrogance have I shown in the last few post here? Jeesh, its one thing if you dont like a model and tell me criticism about it, thats fine and I think its been established that I think its fine.

I fail to see what I have done in this thread to show arrogance. (I am beginning to see that trying to start a good conversation and ask for suggestions on the models above was a fruitless endeavor.) 3 out of the 4 last post havent even said anything about the models or the new ideas, and just rant on about "arrogance" and me supposedly telling someone to F off.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

In response to the upcoming work.

I'll start with the commissar; it does look quite poor at this stage, the greenstuff work looks very rough, the left arm looks too long and I can't quite work out what's going on with the right arm, it looks like a powerfist? But much too long. 

The (tau?) concept certainly looks interesting.

The stormtroopers have a nice looking aesthetic, but they look too small to work alongside IG parts (which is assume is what you're going for) The actually pieces look really nice, especially the armour style! I do think you need to look at the poses for the arms though, something seems off about them, reference actual pictures of military personnel wielding weapons to see if something is off (could just be the pics)

*EDIT:



chapterhousestudios said:


> (I am beginning to see that trying to start a good conversation and ask for suggestions on the models above was a fruitless endeavor.) 3 out of the 4 last post havent even said anything about the models or the new ideas, and just rant on about "arrogance" and me supposedly telling someone to F off.


I wouldn't say it's a fruitless endeavour! It's always interesting to see new work. I think the "controversial" nature of the current situation means people are going to be constantly drawn back to that in all discussions involving Chapterhouse. That shouldn't deter you from showing previews here though, if anything, you should show more things like those stromtroopers, which are obviously _inspired_ by imperial guard, but do look quite mice and unique to my eye.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

The shock troopers are ace.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

As a person who has purchased product from CHS I will say that I was very pleased with the miniatures and left feedback on the product itself as well. I do have to say that I am very pleased with how this has turned out, discussion wise and if you hang out here you will see that we are the adult forum and by being this we can be a bit more harsh when compared to some of the other places out there. 

That being said there are products that you have made that I really enjoy, while there are others that I am not to keen on. The subject of this thread is a prime example, I really like all of the marines except the studded armor as the studs do not look all that great. I will also note that who ever photoshoped your images needs to do them again as the pixelated lines are not doing them any favor and at several points look like that cut parts of the pieces off. 

Even though I have said I would think twice about sending people to you, that was only half true, I have sent many people your way in regards to several of your minis and vehicle kits. I for one think that the lawsuit that is/was against you is bullshit in most regards as I see your kits as add-ons, meaning people still have to buy GW kits and may actually buy more kits because they can change the look of what they have. As a product review website I know I would love to do more reviews on CHS but only so much money.

Anyways I would encourage you to stick around more, you will find that our "hate mongering" would lessen and we would also be a valuable source of feedback on products as well.

Models above, I like the art on the Blue guys weapon arms, look pretty sweet in concept. The Commissar is just off in some way, I agree about the neck being a bit long for the bullish features she has, and the power arms looks a bit odd too. The left arm looks fine. The Stormtroopers are looking pretty sweet.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

chapterhousestudios said:


> Tak,
> 
> What arrogance have I shown in the last few post here? Jeesh, its one thing if you dont like a model and tell me criticism about it, thats fine and I think its been established that I think its fine.
> 
> I fail to see what I have done in this thread to show arrogance. (I am beginning to see that trying to start a good conversation and ask for suggestions on the models above was a fruitless endeavor.) 3 out of the 4 last post havent even said anything about the models or the new ideas, and just rant on about "arrogance" and me supposedly telling someone to F off.


Well, accusing this forum of "hate-mongering" and being unreasonably critical because *some* of it's users disagree with your sense of aestethics is borderline (if not full blown) arrogance. And even if you don't think of it this way, I can assure you, some will. 
Also, dismissing peoples opinion on your products because: A) they haven't bought any from you or B) they don't give you a fully detailed report of why they find your products lacking could also be considered arrogant.

As for your products, I would rate them as average. Or mediocre. Your stuff is a lot of hit or miss and the pictures are generally not sharp enough to give a fair judgement on the "actual" detail of the sculpts.

Also, I'm in the same boat as reaper. I am not too impressed with most of it (although I kinda like the Stormraven conversion kit. It decreases the models "flying lunchbox" look decent enough. Which is quite impressive), but mostly I just don't need anything you produce. As reaper suggested, try moving a bit away from the GW look. Maybe then I, and a lot of other the picky guys, could become more interested.

Edit: Adding a little more to the actual topic.

Do I really need to tell you that the Commisar is abhorrent? Rarely have I seen such an inhuman face on a human model, the neck is, as you noted, too long, so are the arms, the pose looks incredibly akward (I don't think anyone ever stands like that), the plasma gun look too big and stubby, almost like a novelty toy gun, and all that makes the legs look puny.

The storm troopers however, are quite nice. They aren't particularly original, but they definitely look like storm troopers. The bare heads actually look pretty good, especially the female one. 

But it's still not something I need....


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> In response to the upcoming work.
> 
> I'll start with the commissar; it does look quite poor at this stage, the greenstuff work looks very rough, the left arm looks too long and I can't quite work out what's going on with the right arm, it looks like a powerfist? But much too long.
> 
> ...


I guess it comes from being more sensitive then others.

In any case, yeah something bothers me about the Commissar too, I see the bionic arm being an issue (maybe having clothes cover the upper part will make it look better). What always draws my attention is the neck and head area.

As far as the Storm Troopers, people are sure to use them as IG stand ins, and others will use them in other systems. They have been modeled to use our SCAR weapons, so Im sure they will be ok with those kits, not sure what will happen if people merge other weapons with them.

Thank you Immortal for trying your best to help me out _here_.

djinn,

I guess I have to ignore the obvious "flames" and work on the criticisms instead. If you guys continue to keep giving me good feedback Ill be happy to stick around as I do on the other boards.

Please do not take my short replies as anything offensive, I pretty much am a one-man operation when it comes to things, I have people who do the art and the sculpts, but everything else in between is my job and it doesnt leave much time for detailed post.

Hell, I have a forum on the new website, and I have no time to activate it and noway in hell do I have time to moderate it.
Nick


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> I do have to say that I am very pleased with how this has turned out, discussion wise and if you hang out here you will see that we are the adult forum and by being this we can be a bit more harsh when compared to some of the other places out there.
> .


Ya most of the time we have are torch's and bibles out by now to chase you off a cliff or into a river......


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## Dusty's Corner (Aug 25, 2008)

I shouldn't really comment on the models as someone in my position can't - it would be bad form. I was commenting on what I've noticed over the months. And when I glanced over this thread, what appeared more to me was not the models, but...tension.
So as a customer forget what fecking model it is, I want to find out what's going on behind it all, which is what lead me to writing. It is very rare I post off-topic and which is why I felt that this was quite an important issue; as if you screw around with this industry, then you're screwing us all around too (generally with the result of prices going up and things being tighter).

I'm not here trying to bad-mouth you guys, just trying to make aware of some things. I'm not really interested in what people have messaged you. They could be all good for all I care. It's not about the praise you look for, it's the other one. And 5 yrs sales doesn't really impress me, but well done though.

But about the models as you ask....see...now I how to backtrack.....
Pic is a bit small....oo...head,arms, banners,bases, weapons (core that's a lot of stuff) not included...So is that just body and legs then? Who made all the other bits? I wouldn't mind some of those arms and that powersword!
Not bad Space Marines. But I would of thought GW would have moved along the design a little.
Pics of the actual pieces being sold would help.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> The shock troopers are ace.





Dusty's Corner said:


> I can't comment on the models as someone in my position can't - it would be bad form. I was commenting on what I've noticed over the months. And when I glanced over this thread, what appeared more to me was not the models, but...tension.
> So as a customer forget what fecking model it is, I want to find out what's going on behind it all, which is what lead me to writing. It is very rare I post off-topic and which is why I felt that this was quite an important issue; as if you screw around with this industry, then you're screwing us all around too (generally with the result of prices going up and things being tighter).
> 
> I'm not here trying to bad-mouth you guys, just trying to make aware of some things. I'm not really interested in what people have messaged you. They could be all good for all I care. It's not about the praise you look for, it's the other one. And 5 yrs sales doesn't really impress me, but well done though.
> ...


The other parts were conversion work done by the original sculptor. I want to put to rest that these are and should be more then Large Space Marines, ala GW.

All I am supplying are the legs, chest, shoulders and backpack with this kit (it is possible to make a figure if you add Chapterhouse weapons, weapon arms and heads though they wont look like "Space Marines", especially if you use some of our other pads).

To that end I am going to work on combining some of our heads, our weapons and arms to show that it is completely possible to make "Knight Praetorius" figures and they will be different from GW Space Marines.

Will they be armored, sure, but I think the look will be distinctive enough, especially if you dont use Bolt Guns and GW heads which we dont sell.

As for pics of the pieces, you can check them all out here.

Nick


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Any plans on more female warriors for the Space Elves?


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

So are they supposed to be Space Marines or not?

Why go to all the trouble of putting them together with SM parts, writing a ludicrous fluff blurb (Empress, really?) make them look like second rate SMs and then pop up and say "They're not what they look like if you build them with our own parts!"? 

Why not just put them together with your own parts in the first place?

You're dicking around with GW, plain and simple. 

If that's what gets you out of bed in the morning then fine, go for it, but please don't try and paint this up as anything other than what it is. 

You (CHS) are clearly talented, why not build something unique, something that makes you stand out? You've already mentioned Scibor, a company I have used in the past and will use again, they do some minis that are clearly inspired by 40K, they also do a lot of stuff that is completely unique to them.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> Any plans on more female warriors for the Space Elves?


So many things I want to flesh out... we are working on a totally new warrior caste, and im sure you have seen sketches of it elsewhere, close combat warriors of the male pursuasion.. still trying to get the finishing touches on them.

Name will be "Hell Hounds" or something similiar..

Not really trying to do female versions of the GW aspects at the moment. If anything maybe character models..


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> So are they supposed to be Space Marines or not?
> 
> Why go to all the trouble of putting them together with SM parts, writing a ludicrous fluff blurb (Empress, really?) make them look like second rate SMs and then pop up and say "They're not what they look like if you build them with our own parts!"?
> 
> ...


This is pretty much dead on, I have to say your kids look like cheap rip-offs of the forgeworld versions which came out first and have better design...And include heads...... On another hand i can pretty much point out every single one of those items in the HH art book.....


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> So are they supposed to be Space Marines or not?
> 
> Why go to all the trouble of putting them together with SM parts, writing a ludicrous fluff blurb (Empress, really?) make them look like second rate SMs and then pop up and say "They're not what they look like if you build them with our own parts!"?
> 
> ...


They are called "Knights Praetorius". The fiction you mention, is my attempt at fiction, sorry if its lacking.

You as a customer can do whatever you wish to do with them. I have some examples of what one person did, Ill have more examples of my own attempts as well.

Your opinion on "second rate marines" is your own, I plan on them being something new and better.

I could care less about what GW thinks about our kits, some people like them some dont.

We have stuff that is our own creation as well, just like Scibor. Super Heavy Walker, our shields, many of our weapons and shoulder pad designs, etc etc.

I think i answered all your questions?

Nick


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

Azkaellon said:


> This is pretty much dead on, I have to say your kids look like cheap rip-offs of the forgeworld versions which came out first and have better design...And include heads...... On another hand i can pretty much point out every single one of those items in the HH art book.....


Eh, lots of purchasers say our kits surpass Forge World in quality.

Sorry, I have that book in my closet somewhere, I dont look at it much at all (its an awesome work of fiction though, read it all in a day).


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I am liking those new models. Any ideas what weapons? IMHO stay away from swords. Clawed weapons would be neat, clawed like cat/dog, not scorpions.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> I am liking those new models. Any ideas what weapons? IMHO stay away from swords. Clawed weapons would be neat, clawed like cat/dog, not scorpions.


That was my thought too.. unfortunately the sculptor went with swords, I was thinking Klingon like Batlifs myself.

Still its something that is easy enough to add/change.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I say no to swords because of obvious reasons. People can play them as count-as if they want or draw of up their own rules if they have a totally different weapon, or you can double weapon them like you did with the Doom Seer.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> I say no to swords because of obvious reasons. People can play them as count-as if they want or draw of up their own rules if they have a totally different weapon, or you can double weapon them like you did with the Doom Seer.


Yeah, again, I had the same thought, the sculptor is great, but he hates weapons...


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

I actually quite like those "hell hounds"


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Midge913 said:


> I actually quite like those "hell hounds"


I would call them Howling Hounds personally but they are pretty neat.


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## Khargoth (Aug 5, 2010)




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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

If Chapterhouse is going to ignore IP laws, why not just make copies of things people actually want? Say, autoguns? Ones that look good?


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## Takana77 (Mar 2, 2009)

Another facet was brought up in a convo with a friend this evening. When someone goes into a walmart or any other store for that matter, one wonders why costs keep going up. Besides inflation, rising fuel costs (and material costs for minis being plastic), labor costs, etc every store now for all intense purposes transfers the cost of theft onto their customers. When someone shoplifts from a store shelve, I as a current and future customer wind up paying more out of my wallet. Theft, lawsuits, insurance, liability, etc they all drive up costs unto themselves.

So yeah because of the disregard for IP, the hobby will unavoidibly see another price hike. Corporate business dictates that these incurred expenses get passed onto the customers and no getting around that. These are the rules the world runs on and the rest of the world has to live within, but sadly arrogance elevates others to being above laws and rules (dare i say flaunting the rules and/or laws?).

Smoke and mirrors .... hey look at these other select few images that don't have any gw bits in them, because if we don't talk about wrong doings anymore then they never occurred happened ... /snicker

obfuscation ... even though others have stately clearly there positions and reasons and justification. lets to take argument "a" and combine it with reason "b" and justification "c" so that the logical outcome makes no sense and thereby winning an internet forum debate ... /woohoo

projection ... you guys are at fault for everything, yeah everything that transpired. yeah its all your fault ... lets make the argument the justification, the reason the argument and the justification the reason and make others at fault for it ... /guilttrip

lol oh well


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## Red Corsairs (Jun 8, 2008)

I'm glad this thread has panned out to be a more adult discussion than it originally looked like it was going to be. To CHS, as djinn said, if you stick around this forum could end up being the most helpful one for you in terms of feedback.

I like those Hell Hounds a lot, looking good CHS.



hungryugolino said:


> If Chapterhouse is going to ignore IP laws, why not just make copies of things people actually want? Say, autoguns? Ones that look good?


To be fair, True Scale SM's are probably one of the most sought after models amongst those of us who are shit at modelling


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

Takana77 said:


> Another facet was brought up in a convo with a friend this evening. When someone goes into a walmart or any other store for that matter, one wonders why costs keep going up. Besides inflation, rising fuel costs (and material costs for minis being plastic), labor costs, etc every store now for all intense purposes transfers the cost of theft onto their customers. When someone shoplifts from a store shelve, I as a current and future customer wind up paying more out of my wallet. Theft, lawsuits, insurance, liability, etc they all drive up costs unto themselves.
> 
> So yeah because of the disregard for IP, the hobby will unavoidibly see another price hike. Corporate business dictates that these incurred expenses get passed onto the customers and no getting around that. These are the rules the world runs on and the rest of the world has to live within, but sadly arrogance elevates others to being above laws and rules (dare i say flaunting the rules and/or laws?).
> 
> ...


Your comments aside, do you really believe GW would not increase prices regardless of the situation?

Having personally worked with ex-GW management employees (not retail but corporate) GW has a schedule of price increases that are done every year, regardless of the legal climate.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

chapterhousestudios said:


> Your comments aside, do you really believe GW would not increase prices regardless of the situation?
> 
> Having personally worked with ex-GW management employees (not retail but corporate) GW has a schedule of price increases that are done every year, regardless of the legal climate.


Everyone knows they would do this without having to ask "ex-Management" really man your stuff would sell much better if you where more laid back...Plus this thread wouldn't of happend....if you do release those "Howler wolfs" i suggest getting ready for a GW Legal hammer the size of a semi-truck.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

Azkaellon said:


> if you do release those "Howler wolfs" i suggest getting ready for a GW Legal hammer the size of a semi-truck.


How exactly do you figure that would happen (in other words, GW makes fighters with wolf helms on them?)?


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

chapterhousestudios said:


> How exactly do you figure that would happen (in other words, GW makes fighters with wolf helms on them?)?


They do already. There called Space Wolve's and howling Banshe's which have the same body's and from what you posted weapons. Please tell me how mixing the two are not copying there I.P? 

(Checkmate good sir.)


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

I really like the Doomseer model and actually love the Armana'serq Scorpion Warrior Priestess model. I have a very Scorpion heavy army that she would be perfect for. I look forward to seeing other models in this line and can't wait to see what you come up with.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

Azkaellon said:


> They do already. There called Space Wolve's and howling Banshe's which have the same body's and from what you posted weapons. Please tell me how mixing the two are not copying there I.P?
> 
> (Checkmate good sir.)


I can see any further explanation would not help here..

(seriously?!)


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

Styro-J said:


> I really like the Doomseer model and actually love the Armana'serq Scorpion Warrior Priestess model. I have a very Scorpion heavy army that she would be perfect for. I look forward to seeing other models in this line and can't wait to see what you come up with.


I will keep my guys busy


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Styro-J said:


> I really like the Doomseer model and actually love the Armana'serq Scorpion Warrior Priestess model. I have a very Scorpion heavy army that she would be perfect for. I look forward to seeing other models in this line and can't wait to see what you come up with.


Hmmm Scorpion warrior models would be pretty cool i must say you have a point.



chapterhousestudios said:


> I will keep my guys busy


Wouldn't waste my time if i was you someone beat you too it....

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440240a&prodId=prod1160108a

Also combining banshee body with a space wolf helmet is like drawing boobs on mickey mouse and saying its not Mini Mouse.


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## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

Azkaellon, i dont know what you are on about. either you are trolling or just running your mouth off...

@CH, i commend you for sticking with this thread, its good to see you diddnt rage quit, but stuck with this thread and can now see that there is constructive criticism, just like on every other forum, you have to wade through the trolls haha

the railgun concept looks quite interesting, i'd be interested in talking to you in private about your pipeline to producing a final piece (im just finnishing up uni as a games concept artist/3D modeller )

the storm troopers concept is quite cool and the torsos capture the same feel which is great  

one area i can see you constantly making the same mistake is the limbs, they always seem either too long or too thin, like others have said, the commissar is a bad offender for that, if you are going to have that kind of chest armour, i'd recommend some bulkier armour around the limbs to keep that sense of proportion.

also, those wolf helmets are looking ace, if the rest of the mini are of that quality, then i think they'll look top notch


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## Khargoth (Aug 5, 2010)

chapterhousestudios said:


> I can see any further explanation would not help here..
> 
> (seriously?!)


Yeah, I'm gonna side with Chapterhouse on this one, that was just dumb...


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

chapterhousestudios said:


> To answer GrizBe, where did I ever threaten to sue someone for Libel?


I'd put it out but gee.. wouldn't you know it? Someone went back and edited or deleted all their posts...


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

chapterhousestudios said:


> OK,
> 
> Some stuff in the pipeline, thoughts?
> 
> ...


The concept sketches are very nice. The commisar might look better if you put another model in the picture for scale. As it is there does seem to be something off about it. I really like your hell hound sculpts!!

Doc


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

Hmm, The Knight Praetorius... I'm not keen on. As has been stated elsewhere, the breastplates are too plain, the shoulderpads could use a rethink... Although I must say I like the backpacks.

As for the other photos, the electro-magnetic rifles look great in concept, if the sculpts end up as good they would be well worth investing in. They remind me a lot of the Halo Covenant Beam Rifle.

The troopers look great, I've had an idea for a Stormtrooper IG force bouncing round my head for a while, and these models, with your SCARs, would fit the bill nicely.

The Commisar however.... wow. I can't be too harsh, because honestly its significantly better than I can do personally. However, if I had sculpted it for a business, I'd have to start again because that really doesn't capture the feel of an authority figure for me. The pose is awkward, the face makes it look like she's about to sneeze, I haven't seen such a ridiculous plasma pistol since 2nd Ed Space Orks, the bionic arm looks like a mechanical grapefruit on a lamp stand, the cuirass is totally inappropriate, the ankle armour looks like prison issue leg warmers, and for some reason i think the hat is too small.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

I like the look of those wolves actually, they are clearly based on howling banshees, but having them as males is an interesting ideas, and the wolf heads look pretty cool (the "champion" model looks like the head is a little big though) The proportions look all right too.



Azkaellon said:


> Everyone knows they would do this without having to ask "ex-Management" really man your stuff would sell much better if you where more laid back...Plus this thread wouldn't of happend....if you do release those "Howler wolfs" i suggest getting ready for a GW Legal hammer the size of a semi-truck.


Yes, they look like howling banshees, but I don't see how that would be any more of a problem to GW that a lot of other CHS stuff? 



Azkaellon said:


> They do already. There called Space Wolve's and howling Banshe's which have the same body's and from what you posted weapons. Please tell me how mixing the two are not copying there I.P?
> 
> (Checkmate good sir.)


But howling banshee's don't have wolf heads . . . 

We've not see the finished models, so for all we know, the end product could look quite different (or as different as it _needs_ to look.)

I think anyone who doesn't have something adult and constructive to say (this isn't directed to you Azkaellon), but just want's to post flame/pictures that contribute nothing to the thread, maybe shouldn't bother at all?


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## Red Corsairs (Jun 8, 2008)

> I think anyone who doesn't have some adult and constructive to say (this isn't directed to you Azkaellon), but just want's to post flame/pictures that contribute nothing to the thread, maybe shouldn't bother at all?


As imm0rtal reaper says. If you have nothing constructive to comment in this thread, don't bother at all. It is shaping out to be a grown-up and friendly discussion that CHS can walk away from with some helpful and constructive criticism and we don't want people butting in with their pointless comments that add nothing to the conversation.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

Its sad to see so many people brining dead cows out of the water into the open, but i personaly think you guys are making leaps forward with your changes to keep GW legal out of your hair.
and tho i agree on some of the sculpts/products to not look that great there are at least an equal amount of products from you guys that actualy look grand

I hope your business keeps up.
I havent been on your site for a while but is that a new design?


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## Red Corsairs (Jun 8, 2008)

I think I might even buy some of those True Scale kits to be honest. Painting has always been my thing and I'm dogshite at modelling so these are the closest I'm going to get to true scale SM's without commissioning custom conversions.


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

Some of his stuff is not original and based on games workshop just like a lot of other companies get ideas from others. 
Some are so close you would be forgiven for thinking GW made them. 

The thing is, we live in a time were most ideas have already been done and being original is getting increasingly harder.
even if you shut yourself away and didn't look at the background to 40k there would be things you could think of that had been done but you were unaware of.
for example, how many of you have thought of a custom space marine chapter name then googled it to find its already been done, (i know i have plenty of times.)
or thought of a conversion to find its already been done.

chapterhouse has shot himself in the foot on here before by coming across as rude or arrogant, or maybe just taking our comments to heart too much, (he did confess he is a softy, lol) or it could be pressure from the court case and he is tired of justifying his work, -I am not defending him BTW, just an observation- but his company is adding more to our hobby by giving us more options to build our armies with added uniqueness.

yes this is the same type/look as the GW models but scaled up, but lets face it GW space marine Armour just looks like someone put drain pipes over their arms and legs.
Its a fully enclosed suit of Armour how else could it be designed?. 
any ideas would be good.


anyway i'm going on a bit now but what i'm trying to say is i like his work and think some people including him just need to chill out a bit over this matter.


@CH

In a future where knowledge and technology rule. Aliens and humans battle for resources over countless worlds in a race to the become the dominate power.
Earth has been divided into two warring factions although each faction has claimed a whole system to rule over-, they continue to fight over who should rule over earth.


Queen Eva Kimlar is the leader of “Enter name here”, a powerful sorceress she mixes magic with technology Kimlar is the manipulator of men and can influence their thoughts, it is almost impossible for a male to deceive her as she can see your thoughts in your eyes as if watching them play out on a screen, she shares a psychic link with her most loyal followers on a level a normal human could not comprehend.
Her influence on peoples actions are stronger over men than women although she is adored by her female follows they are far less in number than their male counterparts due to the fact her powers do not work as effectively over the same gender.

BORED AT WORK.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

the-ad-man said:


> Azkaellon, i dont know what you are on about. either you are trolling or just running your mouth off...
> 
> @CH, i commend you for sticking with this thread, its good to see you diddnt rage quit, but stuck with this thread and can now see that there is constructive criticism, just like on every other forum, you have to wade through the trolls haha
> 
> ...


I totally agree on the Commissar, I just need to nail down the errors and have those areas redone. That is why I am more then ok for you guys to tear her apart.

As far as 3D work, yes please email me at [email protected]. This is definetely a piece that will be done in CAD, but I need someone with access to a battlesuit for scale, someone who is committed to detail and accuracy as well. (experience with having items made for printing in mind helps too).

Thank you for the words on the Hellhounds and the Storm Troopers !



docgeo said:


> The concept sketches are very nice. The commisar might look better if you put another model in the picture for scale. As it is there does seem to be something off about it. I really like your hell hound sculpts!!
> 
> Doc


Thanks, again, its hard to work with the Commissar because I dont have it in hand, shes half way across the world too..

Im looking forward to the final versions of the hounds.



Grokfog said:


> Hmm, The Knight Praetorius... I'm not keen on. As has been stated elsewhere, the breastplates are too plain, the shoulderpads could use a rethink... Although I must say I like the backpacks.
> 
> As for the other photos, the electro-magnetic rifles look great in concept, if the sculpts end up as good they would be well worth investing in. They remind me a lot of the Halo Covenant Beam Rifle.
> 
> ...



Poor Commissar, she may not ever see release at this rate 

Our first set of the Knights are meant to be plain and ordinary, many folks like to do detail work themselves, rather with paint of sculpt, these can facilitate that. Please keep in mind, you dont have to use the pads the kit comes with, I think if you dont you can have some awesome looking figures that dont scream "Gw"...

The guns and troopers will see release this year.. I know that, again I need another full time sculptor who works for peanuts like myself and Tom. 



Red Corsairs said:


> As imm0rtal reaper says. If you have nothing constructive to comment in this thread, don't bother at all. It is shaping out to be a grown-up and friendly discussion that CHS can walk away from with some helpful and constructive criticism and we don't want people butting in with their pointless comments that add nothing to the conversation.


Thanks guys for saying so, I think you established folk have more weight and prestige to ask people to stay on topic. If I do, I just feel like it falls on deaf ears.



Haskanael said:


> Its sad to see so many people brining dead cows out of the water into the open, but i personaly think you guys are making leaps forward with your changes to keep GW legal out of your hair.
> and tho i agree on some of the sculpts/products to not look that great there are at least an equal amount of products from you guys that actualy look grand
> 
> I hope your business keeps up.
> I havent been on your site for a while but is that a new design?


Again,thanks!

Nick


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

jimmy gunn said:


> Some of his stuff is not original and based on games workshop just like a lot of other companies get ideas from others.
> Some are so close you would be forgiven for thinking GW made them.
> 
> The thing is, we live in a time were most ideas have already been done and being original is getting increasingly harder.
> ...



Awesome fluff ideas.. can I steal that and use it in the product page?


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

chapterhousestudios said:


> Awesome fluff ideas.. can I steal that and use it in the product page?



Thank you, if you want to you can. I'm not a very good writer (some of the other guys on here are thou) but I'll be happy to help with ideas and background.


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## vetsgtnamaan (Feb 19, 2011)

Well those look pretty nifty. If only you would do tru-scale dark angels


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

vetsgtnamaan said:


> Well those look pretty nifty. If only you would do tru-scale dark angels


I can promise not to do any specific GW Chapters, but there will be a ton of different armor options in the future.


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## vetsgtnamaan (Feb 19, 2011)

*Space Monks*

Yes robed armoured Space Monks my mistake. Still love your stuff once I get my order and see your javelin class jet bike up close I will probably be replacing my ravenwing army with those.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

The sculpts look a little off because they are not as refined of a production process as GW's Kits. Once I get past that, they are pretty neat. Its a good idea and I think it is very marketable. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would like some true-scale marines. My friend might pick some up for his "Movie Marine" army. "Movie Marines" are marines how they should play according to the fluff, so true-scale models would be perfect along those lines.

Off Topic: I would love to see a third party company create sculpts for "certain cyber monkeys" and "certain cultist of death" from a "certain grey army" :grin: My friend and myself would love to field 2 full squads of both for S'n'Gs :biggrin:


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## yukisaiko (Feb 6, 2012)

I've bought some stuff for CH, and the retro Rhino kit was pretty nice, and the shoulder pads are decent.

What really gets me is how much IP GW ripped in the early days (Come on, HR Giger should be suing them for the rip of the early bugs, Starship Troopers came up with Space Marines, etc...), and now that they are the 'victim', suddenly there's a problem?


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## Uncle Nurgle (Jun 26, 2008)

...this has got to be a joke right? I might what the hell, this is just clearly copyright infringement.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Does that have any relevance to this thread? not really! If your going to post, post useful like your thoughts about the kit's quality. We are not hear to dispute legalities, that is for CH to deal with. If you want to talk about it, start a new thread.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

Uncle Nurgle said:


> ...this has got to be a joke right? I might what the hell, this is just clearly copyright infringement.


I have already stated that comments like this aren't wanted in this thread. If you have something constructive (positive or negative) to say then by all means feel free, but comments like this one help no one. Don't do it again.



Desolatemm said:


> Does that have any relevance to this thread? not really! If your going to post, post useful like your thoughts about the kit's quality. We are not hear to dispute legalities, that is for CH to deal with. If you want to talk about it, start a new thread.


I appreciate your post, but in the future, just use the report button to flag posts like this one so the staff can sort it out, helps stop arguments too :grin:

Nick, is there any way we can see a rough mock up (with blu tac) of one of the stormtroopers assembled with maybe one of your scar weapons?


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

First off, don't get me wrong, I buy models from companies other than GW. I love that there's a huge choice now. Some are good, some are bad. However...

Having had a look at the page with all the options on it, I can quite safely say that changing the scale doesn't change the fact that the legs have identical plating layouts, boots and ribbed joins as GWs marines, the bodies are just paired down copies of the GW marine bodies, the shoulderpads are identical, looking at the arms the plates and joins are identical... I could go on. The only things that are original are the power packs, and the image given on the site is of a badly cast one, which has no decent straight lines on it. 

It wouldn't be hard to make them look different. But instead they have gone with making them identical, but in a slightly different scale. Scale doesn't change the fact that it's still GWs IP they are copying, _precisely_. Changing the names doesn't change the look. Every other company changes the look *just* enough that they can legitimately be something else. Filing off the aquilas isn't enough.

I look at that painted picture, and apart from the guns I have a hard time telling them apart from GWs marines in every other aspect, and that is the legal issue. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, chopping a couple of it's tail feathers off isn't going to make it suddenly a sparrow.

All other things aside, if it's constructive critisism you are after, here is mine. 

Tidy up the edges. I wouldn't want a kit that has lines like that, and irregular sized rivets. Looking closely at it, it looks poorly sculpted. It isn't hard to get straight edges and clean lines. 



yukisaiko said:


> I've bought some stuff for CH, and the retro Rhino kit was pretty nice, and the shoulder pads are decent.
> 
> What really gets me is how much IP GW ripped in the early days (Come on, HR Giger should be suing them for the rip of the early bugs, Starship Troopers came up with Space Marines, etc...), and now that they are the 'victim', suddenly there's a problem?


The only bug that was close was the Hormogaunt, and they changed it enough (6 legs instead of 4, eyes and talons rather than claws) that the inspiration was visible, but it wasn't the Giger Alien.

Starship Troopers - I haven't read the original books myself, so I am not qualified to answer how close a similarity there is there. I don't believe the original book came with images though, just descriptions? The films and cartoons came long after GW started making Marines.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> I have already stated that comments like this aren't wanted in this thread. If you have something constructive (positive or negative) to say then by all means feel free, but comments like this one help no one. Don't do it again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I feel the need to stress that these are not in the finishing stages yet, but here you go. Also here are some of the arms we are working on to "complete" the Abbithan Guard sets.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

SilverTabby said:


> First off, don't get me wrong, I buy models from companies other than GW. I love that there's a huge choice now. Some are good, some are bad. However...
> 
> Having had a look at the page with all the options on it, I can quite safely say that changing the scale doesn't change the fact that the legs have identical plating layouts, boots and ribbed joins as GWs marines, the bodies are just paired down copies of the GW marine bodies, the shoulderpads are identical, looking at the arms the plates and joins are identical... I could go on. The only things that are original are the power packs, and the image given on the site is of a badly cast one, which has no decent straight lines on it.
> 
> ...


Except we are not selling the marines you looked at, I am selling armored torsos, legs, backpacks and shoulder pads.

When people use those pieces with our in house weapons, weapon arms and heads there will be a new miniature, not an upscaled Marine as you see it.

If I was not busy packing orders today, Id do it, but I will probably be done sometime tomorrow .

Dont forget the third edition Alien Queen, aka Hive Tyrant...


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

Those stormtroopers look promising. Do you plan on adding leg armour (even just knee pads) and maybe some pouches/holsters on the legs?


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> Those stormtroopers look promising. Do you plan on adding leg armour (even just knee pads) and maybe some pouches/holsters on the legs?


Most assuredly, I have one sculptor who does the primary sculpt, and then the master sculptor finishes fine detailing, fixes and additions.

I think the female commissar will be a male officer, as a lot of the mini strikes me as male and not in the least feminine.

The head is already removed (and will always be a separate component) and the arm is likely going to be a bionic bit. A regular arm will likely replace the right with a saber.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> Those stormtroopers look promising. Do you plan on adding leg armour (even just knee pads) and maybe some pouches/holsters on the legs?


I agree. The dynamic poses are nice to see for a change from the standard trooper.


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

I know that I already said this but I would be very interested in you continuing to make pre-heresy like Armour, heads, shoulder pads, and weapons. I feel that there is a large market for that and GW really hasn't addressed that nice yet. I know FW has tried but they are very expensive IMO. I actually like the bare front chest piece because it allows me to a fix equipment like grenades on if I want or the etched bronze emblems from forge world. Do you have plans for additional heresy age items?

Doc


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## Rameses (Aug 21, 2011)

I can understand and see that Nick aka ChapterHouse Studios gets defensive and possibly down right aggressive defending his companies product. This possibly comes off wrong to some people but to be honest to me it shows that he is proud of the work that his artist and himself are producing. 
And to be honest I don't care if CHS has/is making products that "are rip off's" of other peoples ideas; as longs as CHS is producing an alternative to the "mainstream" GW line(IE: CHS "space elves" Doomseer and Scorpion Priestess.) I love these mini's and am glad I bought them and truely hope to see more "Space Elves" 

Thanks for your time. 

I am, Rameses!


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

Rameses said:


> I can understand and see that Nick aka ChapterHouse Studios gets defensive and possibly down right aggressive defending his companies product. This possibly comes off wrong to some people but to be honest to me it shows that he is proud of the work that his artist and himself are producing.
> And to be honest I don't care if CHS has/is making products that "are rip off's" of other peoples ideas; as longs as CHS is producing an alternative to the "mainstream" GW line(IE: CHS "space elves" Doomseer and Scorpion Priestess.) I love these mini's and am glad I bought them and truely hope to see more "Space Elves"
> 
> Thanks for your time.
> ...



Tell you the truth that Scorpion priestess is making me want to collect an eldar army possibly. So that one figure and small sell to Chapter house could net GW hundreds of dollars in sales from me in the future. 

Doc


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Nick,

As an Eldar player the one thing we are lacking is upgrades to what we have. Some different head and arm options for what GW provides us would be a GREAT addition. I would love to do wing swaps for my Swoops or some new arms for scorpions or banshees would be nice as well. As far as I know you would be the only company that would be doing that as well. I know we are not the most popular army butr you have 100 competitors with Marines, and no one with Eldar.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

The problem with Chapterhouse goods is that they're too close to be legitimate "replacment parts", and too deformed and ugly to be good replacements.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

chapterhousestudios said:


> Except we are not selling the marines you looked at, I am selling armored torsos, legs, backpacks and shoulder pads.
> 
> When people use those pieces with our in house weapons, weapon arms and heads there will be a new miniature, not an upscaled Marine as you see it.
> 
> ...


So the picture on page one that you are advertising is not made of your components at all then? Because i'm looking at those as well as the ones on the actual linked page. If everything except the heads and arms *aren't* yours, that's false advertising, and low.

And I'm a huge Aliens fan. Yes, there's a passing resemblance. Again, it's far enough away that it's just that - a passing resemblence, not a copy.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

SilverTabby said:


> So the picture on page one that you are advertising is not made of your components at all then? Because i'm looking at those as well as the ones on the actual linked page. If everything except the heads and arms *aren't* yours, that's false advertising, and low.
> 
> And I'm a huge Aliens fan. Yes, there's a passing resemblance. Again, it's far enough away that it's just that - a passing resemblence, not a copy.


I dont think I have ever said "If everything except the heads and arms *aren't* yours, that's false advertising, and low.". 

I did not make the post on page one by the way.

As for the actual linked page. Those assembled photos are not on the product page, they are in the customer gallery as a example of one use of them.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

chapterhousestudios said:


> As for the actual linked page. Those assembled photos are not on the product page, they are in the customer gallery as a example of one use of them.


I think you're allowed to say Bazinga or /flex after that! :grin:


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

They seem a little expensive, but I actually don't mind the Knight Praetoriuses (Praetori?). They're nice and blank for sculpting/painting details on.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

Grins1878 said:


> I think you're allowed to say Bazinga or /flex after that! :grin:


I do not want to come off as "arrogant" so I am being very civil and even-tempered 



ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> They seem a little expensive, but I actually don't mind the Knight Praetoriuses (Praetori?). They're nice and blank for sculpting/painting details on.


That was my goal for this first set, not everyone likes a ton of detail on armored figures, some have the skill to paint or sculpt more details on and there are a number of bits out there you can glue on as well.

Nick


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

chapterhousestudios said:


> I dont think I have ever said "If everything except the heads and arms *aren't* yours, that's false advertising, and low.".


I never said you did. I said that, as your previous reply implied that the bits other than head and arms weren't yours. Apologies if that was somehow unclear.


> I did not make the post on page one by the way.
> 
> As for the actual linked page. Those assembled photos are not on the product page, they are in the customer gallery as a example of one use of them.


Except that you link to that exact picture on the product page, it's in the same format, font and background as your products, and says they were designed by this chap, implying the painter was also the sculptor, and hence your employee. It also says that certain bits aren't yours, implying everything else is.

If you don't want something used as advertising, don't set it up on your website as such, it's asking for trouble.


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

Hey CH do you razor back weapon kits come with magnets already installed?

Doc


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## vetsgtnamaan (Feb 19, 2011)

Well the set i bought had the holes already for the magnets so you do have to glue the magnets in yourself. And yes they do come with magnets as well.


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

thanks brother for the information....do you like the style and scale of the guns?

Doc


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## vetsgtnamaan (Feb 19, 2011)

Yeah I am pretty happy with the set up. Though their heavy bolters do look more like autocannons but that is pretty minor. Plan on ordering a heap more of them just in case i decide to go razorspam.


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

thanks!! Would you mine putting up some picks of your finished product so I could see? 

Thanks,

Doc


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## Rameses (Aug 21, 2011)

I really like those Shock Troops. But I really like CHS weapons more specifically the "las" weapons.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

*Some New Heresy Style Pads for your terminators - a la carte*

Hello Chapterhouse Studios customers and fans,

Five new shoulder pad options have just been added to the store. The pads are tailored to fit on Space Marine Terminators and are modeled after the earlier style that was present during the Heresy Civil war.

Each set comes with 2 matching pads and they are available for $2.00 a set - components come as unpainted pewter. These have been specially designed to fit on the shoulders of terminator models with nothing but superglue, no modifications are necessary. 

Click on the photos to be transffered to the product page of each item.

Heresy Era Pad for Terminators Type A


Heresy Era Pad for Terminators Type C


Heresy Era Pads for Terminators Type D


Heresy Era Pad for Terminators Type B


Heresy Era Pads for Terminators Type E


We will continue to add a few more Heresy Era pad choices in the coming weeks as well as some new sculpts for our TRU-Scale Knights Praetorian line. My next newsletter will be showcasing the "Assault" version of our Javelin Imperial Jetbike and notify you all of its release.

Game On,

Nick Villacci

Chapterhouse Studios LLC


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

they are actually quite nice pads, nice work


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

I thought it was the blatant stealing of GW IP that got CH into trouble the last time? Whilst nice, they aren't even making an effort to be subtle about "these can fit these kits, to be appropriate for this era". 

*sigh*


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

I'm interested in seeing some more of the Praetorian sculpts. Are you going with alternate armour types or more poses of the same armours?


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

SilverTabby said:


> I thought it was the blatant stealing of GW IP that got CH into trouble the last time? Whilst nice, they aren't even making an effort to be subtle about "these can fit these kits, to be appropriate for this era".
> 
> *sigh*



It is... Apparently they're loosing the case, so seems they're milking as much money as they can before they get shut down.


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## LTP (Apr 15, 2009)

Oh chapter house how I love you and your stupid moves haha. Like seriously, it's like they want GW to come along and screw them. 

They don't even look that good.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> I'm interested in seeing some more of the Praetorian sculpts. Are you going with alternate armour types or more poses of the same armours?


IR,

Yes, I have another set being painted up by some rather professional artist right now. They are also working on a display model of the original kit as well.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

GrizBe said:


> It is... Apparently they're loosing the case, so seems they're milking as much money as they can before they get shut down.


GrizBe,

I would like to know who is feeding you false information, having been heavily involved in the case currently, I am feeling good about our position.

Care to tell me where it is "apparent" we are losing the case, I read everything that is posted online as well as what I get from my attorneys, I must have missed that posting...

For the people who are interested in Chapterhouse (other then to heckle) Ill be showing the "Heads compatible with Tau Battlesuits" and the "Pilum Heavy Jetbike" kit soon.

Nick Villacci
Chapterhouse Studios LLC


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

chapterhousestudios said:


> IR,
> 
> Yes, I have another set being painted up by some rather professional artist right now. They are also working on a display model of the original kit as well.


Excellent. I saw the Worthy Painting video with the kit in it and it got me interested. 

Looking forward to seeing more styles!


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Don't give a damn about legality issues, all that matter to me is someone released true scale marines that shave off 100 hours of work to get a similar squad.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> Excellent. I saw the Worthy Painting video with the kit in it and it got me interested.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing more styles!


Funny you mention Worthy-Painting, there is discussion for them to do some painting for us.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

chapterhousestudios said:


> Funny you mention Worthy-Painting, there is discussion for them to do some painting for us.


I recommend them, everything I've seen of theirs has been impressive. If I ever wanted to commission some painting, I'd go to them! 

I'm a firm believer the more expensive commission packages are worth it. Displaying your product at it's absolute best goes a long way! 

Also, on the topic of presentation, a user gallery might also be a good idea. Being able to see other "regular" hobbyists attempts is always helpful!


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> I recommend them, everything I've seen of theirs has been impressive. If I ever wanted to commission some painting, I'd go to them!
> 
> I'm a firm believer the more expensive commission packages are worth it. Displaying your product at it's absolute best goes a long way!
> 
> Also, on the topic of presentation, a user gallery might also be a good idea. Being able to see other "regular" hobbyists attempts is always helpful!


Sorta like this? http://chapterhousestudios.com/index.php?route=news/gallery

Granted I have been busy running the company so dont have as much time as I wish I did to get the forums and the gallery up and going...


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

chapterhousestudios said:


> Sorta like this? http://chapterhousestudios.com/index.php?route=news/gallery
> 
> Granted I have been busy running the company so dont have as much time as I wish I did to get the forums and the gallery up and going...


Ah, my bad


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## vetsgtnamaan (Feb 19, 2011)

Darn you Chapterhouse I guess I will be sending you more money. Those shoulder pads look very nice indeed. Perfect for my pre-heresy army I am working on atm.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

vetsgtnamaan said:


> Darn you Chapterhouse I guess I will be sending you more money. Those shoulder pads look very nice indeed. Perfect for my pre-heresy army I am working on atm.


If you like those... we have some alternative torsos/heads for terminator models being worked on as well.. some good investments were made on having concept art drawn up for them.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

chapterhousestudios said:


> GrizBe,
> 
> I would like to know who is feeding you false information, having been heavily involved in the case currently, I am feeling good about our position.
> 
> ...



The public court records of the case. And the guys on Warseer who are following it more closely.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

GrizBe said:


> The public court records of the case. And the guys on Warseer who are following it more closely.


If they're so readily available, how about linking us? 

To things make me doubt things are going as badly as you suggest for CHS:

Firstly: CHS continue to release product, not the smartest idea if you're losing a court case surely? 

Secondly: They're still around. If it was really as open shut of a case as most people seem to think it is, CHS would have been nailed by GW by now. The very fact that this has been going on so long suggests that GW aren't in as strong position as most people believe.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> If they're so readily available, how about linking us?
> 
> To things make me doubt things are going as badly as you suggest for CHS:
> 
> ...


Reaper,

Here you go, I hope its ok to post links to another forum..

Warseer one (general educated consensus is pretty much on Chapterhouse side..): http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?321832-Context-around-Chapterhouse-Vs-GW-case-including-IP-law-similar-cases-and-histories

Dakkadakka thread, again, except for a few die-hard pro-GW fans, seems once you get to the meat of the caselaw and GWs lack of evidence or caselaw most readers are on CHS side as well:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2340/355433.page

I have read every post I can to get a general idea of customers thoughts and opinions, as well as some free input from the legally educated posters, and again I rarely see an educated poster (when I say educated, I mean one who is not driven by his personal opinion and one who looks at facts of law) who ends up saying that we are doing anything illegal.

This will be my last response to the legal matter at hand, its been going on for almost 18 months, and if it was as cut and dry as some posters say it is, it would be over by now, dont you think?

I will be happy to answer any questions regarding our actual releases. Perhaps those unhappy posters should start a thread elsewhere and not in news and rumors?

Nick Villacci
Chapterhouse Studios LLC


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

chapterhousestudios said:


> Reaper,
> 
> Here you go, I hope its ok to post links to another forum..
> 
> ...


Cheers for the link, I'll have a read through of those tomorrow. 

I also think that any more talk on the legal side of things with CHS should be moved elsewhere if people still want to discuss it. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread from now on in case anyone get's too off topic. 
k::biggrin:

Back on topic. Nick, is there a time frame for any pictures of the new praetorian sculpts?


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

I sent the first of the series to one of our painters, it was an assembled Knight kit, using components available from my store, including the base . I should be seeing that kit painted this week or next.

The Knights of the Golden Chalice kit were sent to Worthy-Painting for them to take a shot at, Im hoping for great things from them. They should have it in hand by now.

They also got the first set of leg variants, studded and banded armor versions..

Nick


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

chapterhousestudios said:


> I sent the first of the series to one of our painters, it was an assembled Knight kit, using components available from my store, including the base . I should be seeing that kit painted this week or next.
> 
> The Knights of the Golden Chalice kit were sent to Worthy-Painting for them to take a shot at, Im hoping for great things from them. They should have it in hand by now.
> 
> ...


Look forward to seeing them. Especially the worthy painted stuff. 

An example of how professional paint jobs can really help. 

When I look at your praetorian kit on the website (not the gallary pictures, but the product pics) and see this: 



















Specifically the studded armours, it makes me question my purchase a little, because the presentation isn't the best. 

But then seeing this:










Really makes me want the kit to make some bad ass mofo tru scale marines! 


This presentation issue is one I think a lot of smaller companies have. Take mantic games, chuffing lovely models, but their paint jobs and the photography of them consistently let's them down online. 

So it's really good to hear your serious about presentation, I think it'll go a long way to help sell your product.


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## chapterhousestudios (Jun 24, 2009)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> Look forward to seeing them. Especially the worthy painted stuff.
> 
> An example of how professional paint jobs can really help.
> 
> ...


Oh I agree 100%, finding a good, professional painter(s) has always been a goal of mine. Unfortunately, this profession seems full of fickleness. I either run into awesome painters who cant follow through with the skill, or the schedule required. Of course you can pay $200 a mini, but again, thats not something we can do at the moment. Im hoping Worthy-painting can be the answer to many of the difficulties I have faced in the 4-5 years of this business.

Of course I am excited to see how the Knight Praetorian turns out, it is being done by the same artist who did the 
Heresy Pads I just showcased (he did the Terminator example model as well). I specifically assembled the Praetorian with only 100% Chapterhouse products and am excited to see how he looks! I purposely made him a unique and imposing armored soldier...

Nick


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

I like the look of those new terminator shoulder pads mate.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

A Chapterhouse product with less than a third of the set unusable crap?


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Hmm... 22.50 for 6 incomplete, not so well sculpted, faux space marines? If they were complete kits, and either better sculpted or cheaper than GW space marines, I might consider buying them. But, neither of these is true.


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