# Starting Lizardmen



## CaptainQuackers (Jan 4, 2012)

Hi all,

After a recent shift in the amount of players playing Fantasy over 40k at my FLGS I have decided to get in to WHFB, I have played 40k for many years but have never played a single game of WHFB, and after some google searches and questions to my mates at the FLGS, I have my sights set on Lizardmen. I have the main rulebook and I think I have a very basic understanding of the rules, and I have ordered the codex and Lizardmen battalion. My question to you, fellow Heretics, is where do I go next?

I like the whole Dinosaur theme of the army, and I am planning on eventually getting a Stegodon and Carnosaur. What would be the ideal way to go for mid point games? More Saurus or some rares and specials?


----------



## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

What points level do you mean by mid point games? 

Solid blocks of Infantry are key componants to WHFB (much like Mech dominates 40K) so Ideally you'll be wanting 1-2 units of Saurus Warriors at least 20/25 strong, the choice of weapon is up to you either Hand Weapon and Shields for better saves, or Spears and Shields for more attacks (unlike 40k however its not a mix of wargear in regiments)

Magic also plays a massive part in battles and Lizardmen have some of the strongest casters in the terms of the Slaan, to fit one in however you'll need to be playing 1500 points and upwards.

The templeguard that you get in the Battalion also need to be a similar size as the Saurus (so 20/25) as these are your Slaan's body guard

The skinks I prefer to see in smaller skirmishing units

After that, its really all up to you


----------



## CaptainQuackers (Jan 4, 2012)

Hey, thanks for the reply.

By mid point I mean 1000 to 2000 pts. One thing that really surprised me with Lizardmen was how friggin expensive the lord choices are. In 40k 275 points for a staple unit of the army with no upgrades is insane. Is it really possible to fit a Slann in to a 1500 pt game and not get buried in bodies? Are the Temple Guard a necessity to use with a Slann? Keep in mind I'm not fighting any tournaments here, We have a Orcs and Goblins guy, a few WoC guys, a few Wood Elves and some Empire, plus some others I can't remember.


----------



## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

There is a Lustria web site dedicated to Lizardmen armies. WHFB 8th edition is really designed for larger battles. W40K is in many ways a simpler game and a smaller unit skirmisher game (that does not mean W40K has fewer tactics or does not require tactical skill). WHFB is more of a traditional battle of massed forces, especially in 8th edition, with more complex rules (more special rules like steadfast, ranks counting in combat resolution, units having different movement values, etc.). We find that WHFB games at 2400 to 3000 points are the sweat spot in terms of allowing all armies to play reasonably competitive lists, reasonable balance across the army books, and the ability play the big lords required in some armies. For this reason, some lords are much more expensive in WHFB. The Daemon Lords, for example, are generally not even playable below 2000 points and really need a 2400 to 2500 point battle size in order to be played in a Daemons of chaos army. 

It is tough to play LM below 2000 points because of the essential nature of the Slaan. Below that level, you might consider an oldblood lord that is tooled up to have a max armour save and re-rollable armour save or 4+ ward save and be stubborn with crown of command. Then play a scar vet BSB with something like armour of destiny on him. The scaly skin, plus heavy armour plus shield makes the oldblood one of the most viable lords on foot. Then run two lvl 2 skink priests in units of skink skirmishers. That being said, my son plays at a very high level competitively with a Slaan with only two disciplines and few magic items (plaque of tepok) so that he can also play a decent stubborn oldblood in a saurus unit at 2500 points. 

The Slaan can be played without temple guard but generally then needs to be immune to non-magical attacks and to have other abilities, like crown of command for stubborn, in order to survive. That means a Slaan that costs more than you can afford until you get to at least 2000 points. The Slaan is one of the best characters in the game because of the disciplines he has available to him. You can play at 1500 a Slaan with two disciplines (the first one is free) and no magic items in a unit of temple guard and should win a lot at 1500 points. It is a lot of points to invest in the lord and the temple guard special unit necessary to protect him, but you will dominate the magic phase if you take focused rumination (+1 dice for each casting attempt) and becalming (one selected enemy wizard withing 24" discards all dice rolls of 6). Focus of mystery (loremaster knows all spells of a given lore) and higher state (immune to non-magical attacks) are the other two possible disciplines instead of becalming. At 1500 points, your Slaan cannot be your BSB with two disciplines but can if you take only one discipline and a dispell scroll. You become heavily reliant on magic and, thus, should take lore of life for throne of vines, flesh to stone, dwellers, and earthblood. Your temple guard should be maxed out to protect the Slaan and win combat and should be the focus of protective lore of life spells (flesh to stone to make the unit tougher, earthblood to give regen, regrowth to recover lost models), meaning take a minimum core mix of saurus and skinks and rare salamander units (one unit of two is better than two units of one) to fill out the army. 

If possible, always employ units of multiple 2-3 salamanders with handlers because of their ability to march and shoot with flaming templates (misfires just eat skink handlers) and the ability of skink handlers to absorb some wounds. Coming from 40K, this unit will be natural to play because of the free reform and march abilities. 

Also, run skink and chameleon skink skirmishers with poison blowpipes. Skirmishers have the ability to march and shoot and flexible formations. Posion can autowound tough models when rolling 6's to hit and can, thus, take out war machines and many monsters as long as they do not have very high armour saves. 

Your core should be based around saurus warriors and skinks. Temple Guard is best only if you have a Slaan because they are stubborn and allow the Slaan to sit in the second rank with impunity and still cast magic out of the unit. The problems with saurus are very low initiative making them vulnerable to spells that target initiative (pit of shades from lore of shadows) and tend to cause them to strike last. But you get two attacks each from the front rank models with S4 and T4. Saurus also only get a shield and scaly skin for a 4+ armour save and a parry save with the hand weapon. But a saurus unit led by a heavily armoured and protected scar vet or old blood can be very effective. I would not recommend paying the extra point for the spear for saurus because you gain a row of single supporting attacks when not charging but lose the parry save (6+ ward save). 

A specialised unit that can be effective is to run a ranked unit of cheap skinks with Kroxigors. This mixed unit allows the Kroxs to sit in the second row and hit back with great weapons while the skinks in the front and back ranks take the wounds. Also, Kroxs effectively count as two ranks with skinks. Skinks are not great in combat with only WS2, S3, and T2 and a shield but they have quick to fire javelins that they can throw even if charged at short range. Also, the movement of the unit allows you to get around flanks and the high S6 Kroxs can allow the unit to deal with tough units. 

Stegadons are also fun to play, especially if mounted by a skink priest in the engine of the gods version which can produce a 5+ ward save for all units within 12" or burning alignment where all enemy units within 2D6" take D6 S4 hits with no armour save (S5 for undead and daemons). But they are vulnerable to certain magic (initiative spells from lore of shadow, certain lore of metal spells, and certain lore of death spells) and cannonballs (which hit both the mount and the rider at S10 and cause D6 wounds).

Lizardmen are the number one army (without special characters being allowed) at the 2400 to 2500 points level in a relatively non-comped and unrestricted gaming environment. They consistently place the highest on average at Independent GTs (Grand Tourneys) in our region of the US. They also have enough viable units and choices to allow for some variety and tactics that make it an interesting army to play.


----------



## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

I play a lot of 1500 point battles due to time constraints in the clubs and GW's and I really enjoy how competitive they can be. In most armies at 1500 they include Level 4 wizards, and yes it is possible to run a Slaan at that limit without hamstringing your list due to what it brings to the table.

Also if it were me starting off, I'd put the Saurus Cavalry on Ebay from the Battalion box and keep the rest of it, thats what I plan to do when I start my Lizardmen colection


----------

