# Your thoughts on the Tau?



## CursedUNTILLDEATH (Apr 25, 2010)

Is their codex well writtin? Are they playable? Can they stand up to high tier armies? Are fire warriors worth shit? Kroot? Vespid? How about tanks, they any good? 

The reason im asking is because i have some spare change and want to invest in a new army that isnt a MEQ or horde. Ive skimmed their codex (i have my problems wiht some of the rules i.e the fire warriors stat line) and they seem to fit my play style (semi-aggresive ranged foucus with screening units). Ive only ever played agasint then and each time it was some kid spamnig battle suits or a kroot wall. I know a good deal of the fluff as well.

So thoughts? They any good? worth playing? competive?


Cheers.


----------



## R3con (Jan 5, 2009)

Playing Against the tau for me =

Turn 1-3 OMG how am I ever going to win this game I'm getting shot all to hell.

turn 4 LoL these guys fall down if I just breath on them hard in Close combat

Turn 5 I win.

Basically if anyone reaches you its over, bubbles don't seem to work anymore, eldar are faster than you, and in close combat even the girls can beat you to a pulp.

It doesn't mean you can not win, just that you will have to play a perfect game and your opponent will have to play poorly for you to win.


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

With the TWC:
Tau firewarrior: "There is only 12 of them, we can do this."

Turn 2

Firewarrior: "OH SHIT!"

They don't do well, in practice or in theory.


----------



## Lyuben (Oct 23, 2010)

Tau have one of the weaker codexes. They basically are beginning to show signs of what the old Dark Eldar had. Which is only a few good units and rest were absolute crap. Ethereal, stealth teams, sniper teams, fire warriors, vespid are all really bad. Kroot are bad too but they are the only unit which can fulfil any form of melee/meat shield tactic.


----------



## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

"The tau have evolved quickly, leading to huge deficits and weaknesses in their physiology. Use these facts to your advantage and you will prevail:

Tau have hollow bones. Their limbs break easily under little applied pressure. 
Tau have poor eyesight. Anything over ten metres away is a blur. 
Tau are frightened by fire. 
Tau are frightened by water. 
Tau are frightened by thunder. 

Xeno experts have discovered that tau are descended from bovine herbivores. Thus they are not natural predators and fighting is unnatural to them. 

Tau have udders, short tails above the base of the spine, and they excrete enormous amounts of methane gas, especially when stressed. 

They chew cud for approximately four hours a day. When involved in this disgusting habit their metabolism and reflexes slow down, making them very vulnerable to attack. 

Tau are herd creatures that panic easily. Their usual response to stressful situations is to either wail and lie face down on the ground with their hands over their heads, or run around in circles hoping to confuse their aggressor. 

In battle, the tau are disorganized and cowardly. They fight from distance and their poor aim makes this tactic ineffective. 

To compensate for their poor eyesight, they have developed acute hearing. Their eardrums are so sensitive that if you make a loud enough noise (for example, by shouting the Litany of Death) it causes deafness and immediate confusion. 

The tau are naturally hairless. They find hirsute people unnerving."


----------



## Amoeba Bait (May 31, 2010)

^ Get some Uplifting Primer up in this thread!


----------



## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

The only units I feel that really need a remix are Vespid and Stealth-teams.

Any other issues with the 'dex are just point-balance. 

It can still be run competitively, but aren't as forgiving as they once were. I'm just now switching over to Tau from Templars and having a fair degree of success.


----------



## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Most Tau players think Tau suck because they dont know how to use them properly.

A Tau army in the hands of a good player can be devastating.

The biggest problem people make is they give their units WAY too many wargear options.
The less points you can spend on the units, the more units you can get, and the more firepower you can dish out.

Oh, and Disruption Pods = *drool*


----------



## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

KingOfCheese said:


> Oh, and Disruption Pods = *drool*


Best vehicle upgrade in the game...

Tau are good in the hands of a good player, not so good if you don't know what you're doing. Winning with the Tau is more satisfying than winning with almost any other army.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I love the tau, I like the look, and its the only army I ever used to win with, I only got bored cus I kept winning.


----------



## CursedUNTILLDEATH (Apr 25, 2010)

Hum thanks for the comments guys. Ill get their codex and see if i like it. Im normally pretty good with chanllgeing arimes so i think ill be good.
And uplifting primer= funniest shit ever

Any one else want to add something.


----------



## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

Markerlights are your friend.


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

KingOfCheese said:


> Most Tau players think Tau suck because they dont know how to use them properly.
> 
> A Tau army in the hands of a good player can be devastating.
> 
> ...


 You just summed up every tau player I know.

They all got 2nd armies, cause they cannot use tau.. 

Personally I'd just battlesuit spam; Who cares how effective; Suits are the coolest things in 40k :3

I'd just run that shadowsun chick, 9 Broadsides, some crisis, and bare minimum Fire warriors :laugh:
- Effectiveness aside; That'd look wicked. :biggrin:


----------



## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Meh, im not really a fan of the Broadsides.
Far too fragile.

Most effective Tau lists are basically...

Cheap HQ suit
2 or 3 units of 6-12 Fire Warriors in Devilfish with DP
3 Railheads with DP and SMS
Fill in the rest of the points with Crisis Suits
Kroot optional.


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

Sure they're fragile..

But they look fucking cool.

IMO tau need a titan... like.. a pure offensive-Ultratechnological-transformer thing; to compete with Titans and stuff; they have alot of ship type things, but who actually uses the manta etc.


----------



## Abomination (Jul 6, 2008)

I think they have a pretty good codex from a fluff point of view. And whenever it gest updated I am sure it be raised to the standard of BA/SM/T/DE (but not Space Wolves, our codex is just too awesome and amazing to ever be equaled). 

I think they do need you to work harder to make them competitive though. I think Tau become more competitive the more experience you have with them. They seem like an army that is difficult to master but rewarding when you do. I recommend having some Broadsides for your Tau, they are ace. They can even cut Land Raiders open too with some good dice rolls.


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

Don't they just kinda... Sit and shoot...

Doesn't come across as requiring drastic amounts of competence.


----------



## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

ROT said:


> Don't they just kinda... Sit and shoot...
> 
> Doesn't come across as requiring drastic amounts of competence.


I'd cover myself if I were you. You just invited a shitstorm. :laugh:


----------



## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

broadsides are f***ing awesome. once they fix those ankles i'll probably buy some just to have some. They could be the worst unit in the game and I'd still put them on the table haha.

I like the concept of the Tau a lot, I think they are satisfying relief from the rest of the armies and really stand out in the 40k universe. I think with the next codex they will be much better rounded, and make for an extremely diverse army, especially since there are supposedly going to be new races to include as mercs or allies or w/e.


----------



## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

If you ignore competetive play, (and why wouldnt you) Tau are a really fun AND powerful army, I have lost to tau lots of times, and I wasnt facing a competetive list, and before I invite the slagging of "you must suck" I have seen much better players than me lose to non competetive Tau as well. Obviously you cant compare them to the DE, BA, and the like, but thats the same way you cant compare sisters or DAngels to those armies either.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

ROT said:


> Don't they just kinda... Sit and shoot...


if you want to lose then yes.

but since there the most mobile army in 40k I enjoyed having a mix of sit back units (unit of suits, unit of warriors and a unit of XV-88's) and the rest was some amobile units, but no kroot or vespid, the models are crap and kroot are just useless


----------



## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

My friend can use kroot effectively. He always takes a shaper and outflanks. They shoot, take our shots, and then charge into combat for their 60 something attacks.


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

Stella Cadente said:


> if you want to lose then yes.
> 
> but since there the most mobile army in 40k I enjoyed having a mix of sit back units (unit of suits, unit of warriors and a unit of XV-88's) and the rest was some amobile units, but no kroot or vespid, the models are crap and kroot are just useless


 Mm yeah; But then again, If I had a tau army, It'd be aesthetically pleasing to me to just have a Battlesuit army.. Which would be maxxed out Broadsides... So to be fair; Sit and shoot sounds like a game plan to me. :laugh:

Agree'd; Kroot suck, and Vespid are ugly as fuck. What kind of idiot thought 'Stingwing' was a daunting and powerful name.


----------



## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

The one major downfall of Broadside teams: Jaws of the World Wolf (well, low I in general). 

Last game against Tau, i omnomnom'd 5 Broadsides in one JoTWW. They reaaaaaaaly don't deal with DropWolves (or Drop-anything) very well.

Although if the drop scatters to an inconvenient area SMS are a pain, but thats about it.


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree, and say that's not a Broadside problem; But a Tau problem ingeneral.

They do need a lesson from me about close-combat. Being a World-Eaters and 'Nid player; I know a thing or two about CC. :laugh:


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Nave Senrag said:


> My friend can use kroot effectively. He always takes a shaper and outflanks. They shoot, take our shots, and then charge into combat for their 60 something attacks.


and then get beaten by a handful of guardsmen because a 5+sv vs a 0sv is allot more important than they think


----------



## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Nave Senrag said:


> My friend can use kroot effectively. He always takes a shaper and outflanks. They shoot, take our shots, and then charge into combat for their 60 something attacks.


Thats probably the least effective way to use Kroot.

Kroot suck at shooting, and suck in combat.
The best way to use them is as an assault screen for your Suits.


----------



## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I would love to see Tau Fluff get some depth, aside from this the advice others have given = good!


----------



## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

TAU ARE SO AWSOME!!! Tau are definately competitive, although they may be a little bit harder to use than MEQ and horde armies.



> Is their codex well writtin? Are they playable? Can they stand up to high tier armies? Are fire warriors worth shit? Kroot? Vespid? How about tanks, they any good?


The Codex is definately well-written, although there are a few units that should have been more powerful, such as Vespid, Ethereals, possibly Kroot and Fire Warriors. However, I believe this balances out with every other unit, espicially Crisis Suits and Devilfish transports.

The Tau tanks are capable of dishing out tonnes of damage, however they are easily killed if your opponent takes, say, a Dreadnaught w/melta in a Drop Pod. In my opinion, they may be a bit too expensive for what they do, but the amount of damage even the basic Devilfish can dish out is amazing.

With Tau you'll want to target one area of your foe's army and focus everything you have on it. Tau are an extremely mobile army (ALWAYS take Multi Trackers on your vehicles) so you should never be forced into close combat as often as some Tau haters tend to think .




> My friend can use kroot effectively. He always takes a shaper and outflanks. They shoot, take our shots, and then charge into combat for their 60 something attacks.


Does he remember to take In tests? Kroot CANNOT survive if they get shot at. "Ah! They killed Johney! RUN!!!"


----------



## Drannith (Sep 18, 2010)

I've been running Tau for a bit now and the biggest down fall to Tau is CC, followed very closely by a very low In (though this is also a reason why CC kill Tau so much)

I don't see why everyone is hating on the Stealth Suits though, they may have a 3 Toughness but the group I play with fear my stealth team. It really comes down to how you play with them (or any units in Tau) and knowing that Tau are not a shooty shooty army, they are a sharp shooter army, you pick what you want dead and fire everything into it then choose the next thing you want dead and proceed from there.

I'm only at 1200 pts with my Tau but with that you have the basics and just need to build it up from there, like adding in more fire warriors (as over priced as they are) and fleshing out units to max.


----------



## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

If any of the rumors are true I fear what the new tau codex hold in store.


----------



## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Imperious Rex said:


> If any of the rumors are true I fear what the new tau codex hold in store.


What rumors?


----------



## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Drannith said:


> I don't see why everyone is hating on the Stealth Suits though, they may have a 3 Toughness but the group I play with fear my stealth team..


 They're an expensive unit with no focus. To paraphrase 3++, they're armed with S5 AP5 weapons, which the tau have plenty of. And while they can be armed with cheap fusion blasters, it totally negates their one advantage: Stealth only works at longer range. 

So its an expensive unit that costs three times as much as a firewarrior, and about equal in killy potential. And since it really can't do much else...

Stealthsuits for the lose.


----------



## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

KingOfCheese said:


> What rumors?


You'll have to scour the web for most of them, but the one that I remember is about the rail gun. Basically you draw a line showing the path of the shot to the max range. Everything shot in the path gets hit and penetrated. 

Yes they are just rumors but one thing is for certain. Codex Escalation. It's a reality and a fact. Every new codex gets significantly more powerful IMO.


----------



## Drannith (Sep 18, 2010)

Imperious Rex said:


> Every new codex gets significantly more powerful IMO.


tell that to Tyranid and Daemons....


----------



## Izzleydill (Jul 11, 2010)

I do believe in Codex Escalation, however Codex Escalation has messed up Codex Escalation in a sense. (I understand this is my opionion) The *IG* and *SW* (especially the *SW*) codexes escalated so much up that the codexes that came after them now aren't as good as those two codexes that came out before them. That being said, the ork codex is an edition behind, but easily in the top 5 of most powerful codexes.

Anyways as for the Tau. If the Tau get some lucky dice early in the game, the enemy will have no chance to recover. I played tau in a tournament and he popped both my *LR* in the first turn with two railgun shots. The Tau do need to have their skimmers become fast, as the lack of mobility does hurt them. Only have two effective vehicles also hurts them. Have effective fast attack units would mean the world to them in screening purposes.

That being said the Tau have wonderful models and certainly are a fun army. The future of them is bright. Part of their problems result from the 5th edition ruleset, but the suspected changes for the 6th edition (2012 rumors anyone know anything?) would favor them as well as the new codex that will most likely be out this time next year. If you want to be the Tau, be the Tau. You will have lots of fun, and they make some pretty fantastic small army builds actually.


----------



## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

I'm surprised by some of the comments here. Yes the Tau suck in CC thats a known fact, the good thing about it though is it shouldnt be a surprise to you. You KNOW your opponents plan is to CC you, you know to expect it. And if there a shooty army... awesome.

Firewarriors, everyone says these guys suck, they are wrong. BS only hits on a 4+ (so 50%) not as good as a marine but.. not bad. AH str 5 though. Thats +2 to wound on Toughness 3 models and +3 on MEQ's, nice. Oh and 30inch freaking bloody range if you dont move. On top of that a +4 save. Again 50%, thats nice. All that makes a fairly eh package but at 10pts per model? HELL YEAH. The price makes me love them like strewberry icecream with chocolate sauce.

There tanks are scarey. I play Necrons (converting to Marines) and they make my Monolith using ass nervous, they make my Land Raider ass tremble. Long Range, Str 10, AP 1. The Tanks have good BS, the Broadsides dont they have twin link tho, and then theres market lights. Scarey man.

And THEN Tau can be suited up to kill MEQ's nicely. Plasma is like Candy at Halloween for them. Plentful and ready to rot your face off. 

I imagine they struggle more against swarm armies, I have little experience there.


----------



## Drannith (Sep 18, 2010)

JackalMJ said:


> I imagine they struggle more against swarm armies, I have little experience there.


Been pretty successful against Nids so far, just use a lot of rapid fire and templates.

Edit: To go back to the stealth teams for a sec, they are three times the cost of a fire warrior but are more mobile, have an assault 3 weapon, 3+ save and have the stealth ability which can really save them from shooting. 

I don't know I guess I am lucky with the rolls and how I use the teams as just about all the people I play with hate it when my stealth team deep strikes in or infiltrates right where they thought I had a weak spot.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Drannith said:


> tell that to Tyranid


when I see tyranids do badly consistently I'll do that, but since they don't I won't.


----------



## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Tau Gunline =









Nuff Said


----------



## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Chaosftw said:


> Tau Gunline =
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And thank you for making me spit on my screen. 

I take it you read my passage from the _Primer_.


----------



## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Imperious Rex said:


> And thank you for making me spit on my screen.
> 
> I take it you read my passage from the _Primer_.


Not a Clue what that sentence means. passage from the primer? not a clue what that is.

Fire warriors have hoofs and they get slaughtered when i get close to them thus the cattle image :biggrin:

Chaosftw


----------



## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Passage - a usually brief portion of a written work or speech that is relevant to a point under discussion or noteworthy for content or style. 

Primer - http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Imperial-Infantrymans-Uplifting-Primer.html

I take it you didn't read the first page of the thread...


----------



## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Imperious Rex said:


> Passage - a usually brief portion of a written work or speech that is relevant to a point under discussion or noteworthy for content or style.
> 
> Primer - http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Imperial-Infantrymans-Uplifting-Primer.html
> 
> I take it you didn't read the first page of the thread...


I know what a passage is, but when you follow it up with the word primer as if everyone is suppose to know what that is. 

I did read the first page but putting quotations around a block of text with no reference does not automatically mean I know where it came from.

Chaosftw


----------



## Waaagh_Bong (Aug 10, 2010)

Thoughts on Tau...

in cities of death, when going againts the tau try and stay off the longer roads and paths. Tau range will end you.

Tau are really good dakka dakka...


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

Hmm; I still think Tyranids are the reigning champions at CoD. The perfect army for it. 

Depends on the table, if it's a hectic cityscape; tau are fucked, completely, no los until last second, when they get hit by a wave of CC, and crippled accordingly. If it's loads of narrow straights, It becomes a line of extermination; Queue up to be S10AP1'd


----------



## Waaagh_Bong (Aug 10, 2010)

ROT said:


> Hmm; I still think Tyranids are the reigning champions at CoD. The perfect army for it.
> 
> Depends on the table, if it's a hectic cityscape; tau are fucked, completely, no los until last second, when they get hit by a wave of CC, and crippled accordingly. If it's loads of narrow straights, It becomes a line of extermination; Queue up to be S10AP1'd


Nids are really good in CoD. move in fast, tie you up in CC and its done-ski. moving over cover sucks when you are trying to put it between you and the rather large swarm thats looking for some bio-mass. 

I used to think nothing of Ripper Swarms.
"pssh, small and low kill points, a flamer will do the trick"...nope never take them lightlyicknose:


----------



## kharn-the-betrayer (Jul 16, 2010)

Space ****


----------



## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

kharn-the-betrayer said:


> Space ****


lol short and to the point :drinks:


----------



## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

I dunno, I like the Tau, got an army of my own in the works. I haven't had much luck in winning, but that's because primarily of my lack of AT.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

kharn-the-betrayer said:


> Space ****


I didn't know you could get space ciggaretes, are they like earth ones?
but I dunno how Tau can be compared to paper and tobbaco.


----------



## Daddysen (May 31, 2010)

Imperious Rex said:


> "The tau have evolved quickly, leading to huge deficits and weaknesses in their physiology. Use these facts to your advantage and you will prevail:
> 
> Tau have hollow bones. Their limbs break easily under little applied pressure.
> Tau have poor eyesight. Anything over ten metres away is a blur.
> ...


"For the Greater Cud!!" , "form battle lines! MOOOOve out !!"


----------



## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

Tau... my least favorite 40K army by miles and miles. Visually they are terrible. They have complex curved shapes with a sleek look for their tanks but the infantry armor and the battle suits are blocky and chunky looking. Their guns are really long rectangles, boring looking. They have hooves. Why not two long toes and a heel? Hooves mean they should be culled and processed for sale in a grocery store. "Yes, I'll have 1 pound of fire warrior ribs and a ethereal rump roast please." 

The biggest thing to me is the lack of visual appeal. I like the "tanks" but the basic troops and the suits are just silly looking.


----------



## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

Models-wise, I'm torn about the Tau. I like the vehicles and the kroot, and the vespid also seem interesting. The Fire Warrior guns, however, are just lame.

Rules-wise, they are harmed grievously by horrible and impractical troop choices. The average Tau troop is loads worse than the cheaper DE warrior or IG vets, that also have better CC and more interesting special weapon choices. As a result, they are heavily dependent on their few strengths (the Devilfish, Crisis Suit, the Hammerhead). 

In the games I've seen, they pretty much always lose, even when playing the elusive mobile way; Land Speeders with MM or Fire Dragons make a mockery out of their transports and tanks and Deep-striking/Outflanking specialists chew their railgun suits in a single turn.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Sephyr said:


> As a result, they are heavily dependent on their few strengths (the Devilfish, Crisis Suit, the Hammerhead).


no there heavily dependent on the player using them properly, fire warriors kick ass when used properly and suck ass when used by someone who grew up playing marines and could fall back on just the list he copy and pastd off the internet instead of any tactical skill.

if you depend on units to win then you will always lose, if you depends on your ability to use those units you will win.

the the main problem with Tau, is the players who think there guard with bigger guns.


----------



## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

the models and codex need work for sure. Actually I love painting fire warriors, they're so fun.

I think the idea behind them, once expanded hopefully by the fifth edition codex whenever that might be, I think is a very good one and they bring something really different to the 40k universe being the only race that seems to have any notion of freedom so long as you are willing to help the greater good if the time calls for it.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

JackalMJ said:


> Firewarriors, everyone says these guys suck, they are wrong.
> 
> [Insert Justification here]


Right, but then this:

12 Fire Warriors firing at MEQs from over 12" away (so one shot each).



> *Shooting*
> 
> *Attackers*
> 
> ...


This is not a good investment for 120 points. Fire Warriors can do decently against targets with armor saves of 5+ or worse, but anything tougher than that will be extremely difficult to hurt.

Know what? I'll just refer you to this post at 3++ is the New Black and let it speak for itself. Saves me lots of time. ^^


----------



## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

The Tau, like all races will only ever be good with the right player controlling and using them effectively. A harder codex to master requires greater skill of the player. What i like about the Tau is:

1.) They are a shooty army with a different kind of shooty concept that the IG have.
2.) They are fundamentally different from all the other races and such do not pose a bore and can be fun with the right mindset and eagerness. 
3.) They are one of the only true alien races that GW includes in the fluff, besides giant bugs, space elves, undead robots, naughty space elves, and loud green fungia with hardly any intelligence to see them any different then comedic trolls. 

Playing races you think are cool and awesome is good, but hating on the races that you cant understand or refuse to be open minded about fluff-wise, gaming wise or overall creativity wise then you sir are just a troll and pose a bad example and discourage new or eager players who possess the imagination to make a meaning of playing 40k. -_-

But on a different note, in a universe of evil, mayhem, carnage, and war, the Tau and their Ideal peace just doesnt fill well, but then again I'm for Chaos and disorder is the name of the game.


----------



## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Right, but then this:
> 
> 12 Fire Warriors firing at MEQs from over 12" away (so one shot each).
> 
> ...


At the same time, I raise you a Tactical Squad. 10 Marines with a SGT and a free flamer, shooting at tau from over 12" away.



> *Attackers*
> 
> *Attacker Group 1*
> *Shots:* 8
> ...


That's vs. Tau, at comes in at a 170. It gets worse vs. MEQ.


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

Then consider them colliding in close combat.

No amount of MathHammer enables 12 firewarriors to fight 10 Tag Marines; and win.
Tau are dedicated to shooting; and their troops do worse at shooting, than say Chaos or SM.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

gally912 said:


> At the same time, I raise you a Tactical Squad.
> 
> [Insert Stuff]


Yeah, but no moron is going to be shooting Fire Warriors like that. Instead, the Marines would be loading up in their Rhino and driving forward to eat the Fire Warrior's faces up close. Also, not taking the free heavy bolter, missile launcher or multi-melta into account doesn't represent things very well.


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

I think he was basing it completely on stats; not whether the players are sane or not.

Some will proberbly argue that you wouldn't shoot MEqs with Firewarriors, or something.
But based on stats alone, Firewarriors just suck; and rightly so imo.

If tau get the insanely good Hammerheads and Broadsides; too right they should have the fucking awful Kroot and FWs. :laugh:


----------



## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

> If tau get the insanely good Hammerheads and Broadsides; too right they should have the fucking awful Kroot and FWs.QUOTE]
> 
> Hammerheads and Broadsides really aren't that great for their price - it only takes one Lascannon to send the broadsides off the board, screaming for their mommies. Plus, we NEED good troop choices; we have to have _something _capable of capturing/holding objectives. HS does not balance out the crap in this 'Dex.


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

I feel your pain, but it's ridiculously amusing to beat a tau player on turn 2.

I was playing a friend of mine once (In fairness he's fairly new to the game), he had only taken minimum firewarriors, so he could take the vehicles liked; So he had about 16 firewarriors, or something similar.

As by usual tradition, I was fighting for the Blood God, twin defiler style; We rolled deployment and mission; I deployed first, Objectives game - 1 objective each.

1st turn, I shoot 2 battlecannons at his FWs, and kill something like 11 of them (It was incredible, dropping one squad to 3, and they ran 4", off the board.), then proceeded to blow up a HH with 2 obliterators using Lascannons.
He did a fair amount of shooting, blowing up 2 of my 3 Rhinos, but ultimately, he didn't do too much.
2nd turn, Another two battlecannons, dropped on the remaining FWs of his. Game over.

Spent the next 4 turns, phasing out; made a huge line of Guys, because he tried to consolidate my objective, and I just trapped him, and 2x Daemon Princes blew most tanks that came near them.

Yes he was inexperienced, but my point stands. You do really have it shit in the troop department.


----------



## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

> I feel your pain, but it's ridiculously amusing to beat a tau player on turn 2.


Tell me about it! One time I played against a new SM player with my 'Nids. 5 Warriors not maded for cc killed 5 Assault Marines w/ Chaplain in close combat! At the end of the game, I managed to wipe out his entire army, only giving him a brood of 10 Termagants! Then I got pwned by an Eldar player...


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

I think that's what I love about 40k; It's all worked out on averages and statistics, but you get impossible rolls, so much of the time; it's just so different everytime. 

Meh, Fuck Eldar. :biggrin:


----------



## Brother Arnold (Aug 29, 2010)

I certainly think the Tau are pretty cool. They have some nice models and fluff in my opinion. They're the only really optimistic and emergent force in an entire galaxy, and they've survived about 10,000 years of war, not to mention being on the side of the galaxy that the majority of the Tyranids are coming from. Plus they're the only race who aren't afraid to ally with aliens. They just need a bit of fluff and rules in the next codex to make them a real force that could make an impact in the galaxy, not just a bunch of systems on the Eastern Fringe.
Anyway, it probably depends on how you play them. Sitting and shooting will probably work as well as an IG bayonet charge in the face of a Khornate incursion. I don't play Tau, but you may be able to work well with a few tanks. Maybe just think very shooty Eldar without Fleet or a ridiculous initiative value.


----------



## Kuolema (Nov 4, 2010)

ROT said:


> I think he was basing it completely on stats; not whether the players are sane or not.
> 
> Some will proberbly argue that you wouldn't shoot MEqs with Firewarriors, or something.
> But based on stats alone, Firewarriors just suck; and rightly so imo.
> ...


Fire warriors are useless.
Kroot are not, kroot are a essential part to all competitive tau lists.


----------



## Kuolema (Nov 4, 2010)

Sephyr said:


> Models-wise, I'm torn about the Tau. I like the vehicles and the kroot, and the vespid also seem interesting. The Fire Warrior guns, however, are just lame.
> 
> Rules-wise, they are harmed grievously by horrible and impractical troop choices. The average Tau troop is loads worse than the cheaper DE warrior or IG vets, that also have better CC and more interesting special weapon choices. As a result, they are heavily dependent on their few strengths (the Devilfish, Crisis Suit, the Hammerhead).
> 
> In the games I've seen, they pretty much always lose, even when playing the elusive mobile way; Land Speeders with MM or Fire Dragons make a mockery out of their transports and tanks and Deep-striking/Outflanking specialists chew their railgun suits in a single turn.


Tau pretty much only have one competitive build, that will change when they get a 5th ed book but for now you work with what you have. 
If anyone wants to know more about how to run tau properly follow the link in my sig and look for the tau articles. 



Stella Cadente said:


> no there heavily dependent on the player using them properly, fire warriors kick ass when used properly and suck ass when used by someone who grew up playing marines and could fall back on just the list he copy and pastd off the internet instead of any tactical skill.
> 
> if you depend on units to win then you will always lose, if you depends on your ability to use those units you will win.
> 
> the the main problem with Tau, is the players who think there guard with bigger guns.


No, no, no, no and NO! Fire warriors suck, there is no way around this. It does not matter how you use them, they suck. The only useful thing fire warriors will ever do is hide in a fish and claim an objective. 


First up, point cost. 10 points each? Is that a joke? What do you get for 10 points per model. 

WS2 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I2 A1 LD7 4+ save
With a 30'' range rapid fire gun with S5 AP5

Option to add a Shas'ui with +1A and +1LD

First thing you notice, they suck at close combat but are harder to kill than kroot. This is BAD, when your units get charged you want them to die that turn so the enemy is left in the open to be shot at in your turn.
The firewarriors 4+ save really works against them and having someone charge you and your fire warriors don't flee/all die in your turn is REALLY bad.

Second thing, they have no special weapons. Yes they can take carbines but your just trading range and rapid fire for pinning, this doesn't help the unit threaten anything different the way melta guns or heavy weapons do.
Fire warrior units only ever have S5 fire power, so they threaten light infantry and AV10. Everything that is AV10 is fast enough to stay out of the way of fire warriors.

Third thing is while they have 30'' range their guns are rapid fire so they aren't very mobile at all, every one should know how useful mobility is in 5th edition. 

So when we add all this up we end up with an over-costed static unit that is only a threat to one thing, not looking too good for fire warriors in a vacuum so lets look at them in the tau army. 

Do good tau armies need more S5 AP5 fire power on a rather static unit? No they do not, so the one thing fire warriors are even remotely useful for is not needed.

Between kroot, pathfinders, crisis there is nothing fire warriors do that the rest of your army can't. 
The only use for fire warriors is taking the min unit you are required to take and putting them in your pathfinders devilfish and hiding there so you can hold an objective.


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

I like the Tau, and at the end of the day that's all that matters.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Katie Drake said:


> Yeah, but no moron is going to be shooting Fire Warriors like that. Instead, the Marines would be loading up in their Rhino and driving forward to eat the Fire Warrior's faces up close


 and no moron wouldn't shoot the rhino to force the marines to foot slog into mobile tau fire power.


Kuolema said:


> No, no, no, no and NO! Fire warriors suck, there is no way around this.


if you use them like a complete muppet yes, if used properly there deadly, but then more competetive minded players have fuck all clue to use anything except 1 or 2 choices from a codex.


ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I like the Tau, and at the end of the day that's all that matters.


ooooh, don't say that round here, people are likely to rip you a new one for playing something because you like them.


----------



## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Imperious said:


> "The tau have evolved quickly, leading to huge deficits and weaknesses in their physiology. Use these facts to your advantage and you will prevail:
> 
> Tau have hollow bones. Their limbs break easily under little applied pressure.
> Tau have poor eyesight. Anything over ten metres away is a blur.
> ...


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

I've never lost to Tau, though I had a draw in a damned objective game.
I hate those.


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Stella's on the money here.

Tau are a strong army if you play it properly. I played my Tau at a close range game, 15" to be precise (if I could help it).

I like the Tau, tear me a new one kiddywinks.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Stella Cadente said:


> if you use them like a complete muppet yes, if used properly there deadly, but then more competetive minded players have fuck all clue to use anything except 1 or 2 choices from a codex


How does one use Fire Warriors properly, then? Clearly you know something we don't.


----------



## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Orochi said:


> Stella's on the money here.
> 
> Tau are a strong army if you play it properly. I played my Tau at a close range game, 15" to be precise (if I could help it).
> 
> I like the Tau, tear me a new one kiddywinks.


Can I ask why 15"? Seems like a random number to me considering gun ranges.


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Rapid firing range of Pulse rifles, and it's inside Burst cannon range.

I run my commander (and bodyguard) as a Helix suit, so he needs to be even closer.


----------



## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Orochi said:


> Rapid firing range of Pulse rifles, and it's inside Burst cannon range.
> 
> I run my commander (and bodyguard) as a Helix suit, so he needs to be even closer.


Rapid-fire range is 12", not half-range. I know that sucks for fire-warriors, but thems is the breaks.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Orochi said:


> Rapid firing range of Pulse rifles, and it's inside Burst cannon range.


This. Contrary to popular belief, rapid fire functions at 12" regardless of the range of the weapon.

It amuses me that some players think that Fire Warriors rapid fire at 15", yet Imperial Guard players never think that their Stormtroopers rapid fire at 9"... :laugh:


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

I haven't played tau since 4th mind you, So I admit I didn't know that.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Katie Drake said:


> How does one use Fire Warriors properly, then? Clearly you know something we don't.


by using in support and supported by other elements of your force, which would entirely depend on what it is your shooting at of course so there is no definitive answer, but of course the idea of using more than 1 unit to win a game is utter nonesense to you competetive players, I mean why pay the pts for 3 seperate units that work well combined when you can just copy and paste 1 unit 3 times into a list and then label them as crap.


----------



## Kuolema (Nov 4, 2010)

Stella Cadente said:


> and no moron wouldn't shoot the rhino to force the marines to foot slog into mobile tau fire power.


Yeah shoot the rhino that ISN'T threatening you, don't worry about killing the dreads or predators that are busy shooting you.



> if you use them like a complete muppet yes, if used properly there deadly, but then more competetive minded players have fuck all clue to use anything except 1 or 2 choices from a codex.


C O M P E T I T I V E
Seriously is a spell check that fucking hard?

And no, doesn't matter how you use fire warriors, they suck.
If think otherwise try and come up with a better argument than "if you know how to use them they good but I'm not telling you how to use them" 
At least I explained WHY they are useless.

Also you seem to know fuck all about any codex, 4th edition codex ARE NOT INTERNALLY BALANCED this means some units are clearly better than others. 5th edition codex have much better internal balance even if they aren't perfect.



> ooooh, don't say that round here, people are likely to rip you a new one for playing something because you like them.


stfu, please?
Everyone can play whatever army they want for whatever reason, they don't need internet approval for it.





Orochi said:


> Stella's on the money here.
> 
> Tau are a strong army if you play it properly. I played my Tau at a close range game, 15" to be precise (if I could help it).
> 
> I like the Tau, tear me a new one kiddywinks.


Like it has been said in 4th edition rapid fire was half range, now it's always 12''.
Tau are a strong army if you play them properly, using more than 6 fire warriors however is handicapping yourself.



Katie Drake said:


> How does one use Fire Warriors properly, then? Clearly you know something we don't.


Oh I see it now O=!
The fire warriors line up 12'' away from tactical marines and they both stand still shooting each other until 1 side wins =O!!
So that is what we are missing, we don't play against stupid opponents. 





Stella Cadente said:


> by using in support and supported by other elements of your force, which would entirely depend on what it is your shooting at of course so there is no definitive answer, but of course the idea of using more than 1 unit to win a game is utter nonesense to you competetive players, I mean why pay the pts for 3 seperate units that work well combined when you can just copy and paste 1 unit 3 times into a list and then label them as crap.


Is a spell check really that hard to use?

You obviously know nothing about competitive players or how to make a competitive list or even what units are competitive and what aren't. Do the world a favor and stop giving out bad advice alright??

You do realize crisis teams work better than fire warriors when you support them right?
Support a crap unit enough and it will be ok, support a good unit and it will be great, that is simple enough for you to understand yeah? Oh should I dumb it down some more?

Fire warriors = bad
Crisis = good
Bad + enough support = ok
Good + same support = great

Understand now? Fire warriors offer a tau army nothing they can't get elsewhere. If your going to try and argue with that at least put some effort into your rely ok? Oh and don't forget a spell check. =]

Your next . . . eh point, if you could even call them that.

Competitive players understand you have an army and it takes an army to win a game not one unit. That is why when looking at what is and isn't competitive those that help you win the game are competitive, those that handicap yourself are not.

The reason competitive players bring multiple of the same unit is because you will suffer loses. 
Crisis suits are a threat to your opponent but one crisis team is easy to kill or avoid, 3 crisis teams are not.


----------



## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Well... There are some good points brought from both sides...



Kuolema said:


> If your going to try and argue with that at least put some effort into your *rely* ok? Oh and don't forget a spell check. =]


Read this carefully.. I found this rather humerouse especially when there is a spelling battle going on.. :laugh::laugh:

Also there are some really good grammatical errors within your post which I could not help but laugh at

A word of advice; If your going to try and drill someone about spelling, make sure yours is all proper :laugh::laugh:

I give you an -E- for effort....

Chaosftw


----------



## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Chaosftw said:


> Read this carefully.. I found this rather *humerouse *especially when there is a spelling battle going on.. :laugh::laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> Chaosftw


You as well, Now enough with the Grammar Fascism.


----------



## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Chaosftw said:


> Read this carefully.. I found this rather humerouse
> 
> A word of advice; If your going to try and drill someone about spelling, make sure yours is all proper :laugh::laugh:
> 
> ...


Sorry brother I couldn't resist...

Drat! Fucking ninjas!!!!


----------



## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

I did that bit, Back on topic please.


----------



## Kuolema (Nov 4, 2010)

Chaosftw said:


> Well... There are some good points brought from both sides...


Could you be so kind as to point out stellas good points for me? I'm having trouble finding them =/ Is he speaking in some kind or heresy code language and I'm just not cool enough to join the club O=?





> Read this carefully.. I found this rather humerouse especially when there is a spelling battle going on.. :laugh::laugh:


Lol I'm not perfect but typos are different from spelling errors, also I don't get a pretty red line telling me I made a typo every time I do. =[
That would be awesome thou, except I want a purple line so you can tell the difference between typos and spelling errors. =P





> Also there are some really good grammatical errors within your post which I could not help but laugh at


Grammar =/= spelling.
I don't get pretty red lines for grammar errors either =[ only spelling errors get special treatment. 




> A word of advice; If your going to try and drill someone about spelling, make sure yours is all proper :laugh::laugh:


Feel free to point out any SPELLING errors I have made. =]
I don't complain about peoples grammar or typos, I only complain about spelling errors which you really have no excuse for with that helpful thing called a spell check. =]





> I give you an -E- for effort....
> 
> Chaosftw


Thank you for signing your post I almost forgot who was replying to me, it's not like your name is in big letters to the left hand side of the screen or anything. . .

edit: ninja'd by mod =[
Back on topic thou here is a link to why fire warriors suck =D
After I find the dam thing >.>


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

To kick this back on topic:

Hammerheads vs Broadsides? What do you think and why?


----------



## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

@ Kuolema I am pretty sure that is his Signature, Do you just look for things to argue over

@ROT, Hammerheads for me, its more just personal preferance though. And when I have fought Tau it is harder for me to deal with the hammerhead than the broadsides.


----------



## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Honestly, Am I Speaking to myself? 

*Way off topic and therefore Locked*.


----------

