# Chapter War: Space Wolves vs Ultramarines



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

So with all the current dexes and fluff out I was wondering on the players/fluff whores stance on whos chapter wins here. 

This is straight up Chapter War, the whole Chapter, no IG help or second foundings. Logan Grimnar leads the entire SW chpater against Calgars Ultramarines Chapter on a world much like our own, no humans. This means both their fleets and armories battling it out too. Who wins what victories, what Characters will claim the fame?


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## Shield of Faith (Dec 18, 2009)

Probably Space Wolves would win. Because SW have 1200 marines but UM have 1000 marines.


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## Dire Wolf (Jul 16, 2009)

As I prefer Space Wolves than Ultramarines, Space Wolves will win. Ulrik is awesome.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

I personally would go with Space Wolves. Their barbarity and ferocity is unmatched, and on a level playing field I would go with the Wolves of Fenris.

(Especially if the new, implied revelation from Dan Abnett is true, that the reason the Emperor permitted such a 'dangerous' and 'untamed' legion to exist is because they were needed to 'take down another legion' - making them in a way an Anti-Astartes force)


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## primeministersinsiter (May 31, 2009)

Ultramarines all the way.


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## piemaster (Oct 9, 2009)

Well, Ultramarines are codex and may be more tactically able than Space Wolves. Plus they have like 10,000 miniatures vs. the poxy few in comparison who play Space Wolves. If you got all the ultra and wolf marines to fight it out in some sort of epic apocalypse battle, I'd bet ultra would have much more in the way of actual miniatures (plus logistical support fan-built-but-no-fluff stuff).

But, Space Wolves all the way man. 13th Co rule and are generally bad ass. They live in the EoT for God's sake dude!


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## dark angel (Jun 11, 2008)

I am actually going to go with Ultramarines on this. 

While the Space Wolves may have superior numbers the Ultramarines are far more disciplined. For Example if a few Squads of Blood Claws are charging a line of Ultramarines, the Ultramarines will not engage them but rather gun them down from a distance. Seeing as alot of Space Wolf Squads are based around close combat I think that the Ultramarines would have a advantage in this area, keeping them at a distance with well placed rounds. 

In space however I think the Ultramarines would struggle FAR more than upon the actual world. They have three Battle Barges and twelve Strike Cruisers (Codex: Space Marines, page 17) while I think the Space Wolves have more (Could someone confirm this? Ammount of ships would be great) with if I remember correctly either a Strike Cruiser or Battle Barge per Company. 

However I would say the Ultramarines would come out on top, they always seem to do so afterall.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

In tatics Ultras should be the slight victor, in nubers the Wolves, in CC Wolves again, in Range I give both the Tie. I like to see Logan and Calgar go at it myself. Maybe Njal vs Tigerus be fun. Casius fighting Ulrik. Ragnar and Sicarius would be awsome.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

fluff wise, Space wolves, hands down. Why? because Space wolves, though not as "disciplined" gain a sense of warriors pride, you would be rushed by Blood claws in rhinos, and on bikes, and with jump packs, while the grey hunters provide medium range fire support. And of coarse the long fangs in the back firing off missiles, and heavy bolter fire, and Las cannons, etc.

Gameplay wise, Space wolves, hands down. If you look at the options between the 2 forces, the ultra marine player would probably have to make squads just big enough to fit in heavy weapons and they would have to bunker down in a place they dont need to move too much from to have any advantage over space wolves on the board, Since they only things that Space marines have over space wolves is a heavy weapon in the tatical squad.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

It might be too close to tell. The SW would want to rush forwards, getting to cc as quick as possible; the Blood Claws would take a real hammering as the Ultras would just keep falling back, staying out of charge range. The Grey Hunters would be more diciplined, but have less numbers and would be more likely to fight the Ultras strengths. 
From range, the Long Fangs would have the edge over the Devestator squads, with their long experience and affinity with their weapons. I see the Ultras Scout snipers being the ones to really hurt the Claws; with Storms and constant movement, they would be able to keep the Claws at bay whilst the big boys play. If they got caught. however, then game over. The SWs scouts would make for a fraught time for Ultras armour; although the 'Spear of Macragge' would no doubt give the SW's armour something to think about.
The named characters, well, that's anyone's guess. Sheer ferocity and Astartes tactics is powerful stuff, but so is the Codex; Guilliman knew that his brothers had some profound stuff to say on waging war, and the Ultras will be reading all of this all of the time, even the stuff from the traitor Primarchs.
So, to climb off my fence, I think the SWs would 'win', but would be so badly mauled in the process that they would cease to exist as a force. If we de-isolated the conflict (to coin a word), then the SWs would lose hands down, just because there are so many Ultras brother-Chapters who would rush to help them out.

GFP

ps I don't think the 1k Sons were helped by the attack coming as such a surprise (although if Magnus was so psychic, he should have seen that one coming!). If Magnus' boys had been given adequate time to prepare, then I don't think the Wolves would have been able to fight for the rest of the Heresy due to losses, anti-Astartes force, or not.


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

No matter who the victor would be, there's no doubt that it would be one hell of a fight! I'm guessing mainly because SW have superior numbers, more range and not restricted to the damn crazy Codex Astartes that they'd probably win, albeit only marginally sinc the Ultra's tactical prowess would easily match the SW's cc ferocity. Still it would be pretty damn funny seeing in the midst of the battle the Ultra's reading through the Codex Astartes and scratching their heads in confusion while looking through the Index for "When Fighting Space Wolves.." as they're getting slaughtered.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

I think Ultramarines.

Space wolves are superior in close combat sure, but Tactical Prowess beats ferocity anyday in my book.


Also, would the 13th great company abandon their quest given to them personally by Leman Russ? They are proud warriors, so much so that they will probably think that their brothers could handle the Ultramarines themselves and continue in their mission.
Also, if Roboute Guilliman can indeed be revived, if he is so at the time that will tip the favour even more so into the Ultramarines direction


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Guilliman can never be revive. He was pwn by DP Fulgrim and his wound cannot be healed. If Guilliman did get revived, Russ would come storming out of the Eye with the 13th company to counter.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

I think Ultramarines "Tactics advantage" would go out of the window when the SW revive Bjorn the Fell handed, or some one like that anyway, isn't he supposed to of served with the emperor IIRC. SO in essence 10,000 years of combat experience. 
Codex Astartes= 0
Bjorn the Fell Handed= 1

Also the disciplined firing lines wouldn't mean shit when the SW send a few squads down in Pods.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Hell Logan been around for 700 years I belive, His Wolves with Armegeddons PDF held out the DP Primarch Angron and his WE/Daemons till the GKs arrive. 

But Calgar Punched out the Avatar (which is such BS), but the Ultras would have better Fleet I would think since Ultramar was Space Faring way before the SW Legion came about.


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