# historical reference in 40K factions



## moshpiler (Apr 16, 2009)

this started off as a very small correlation, but it was one of those things that just confirms itself the more one looks. someone has probably put this up in a thread, or maybe it's just common knowledge, but I'll just have to take my chances, either way it's my first thread and I don't care if it's perfect or not.:biggrin: So i guess I'll just get on with it, instead of wasting everyone's time.

Orks: Barbaric and simple-minded, capable of communicating but they only care to talk about very few topics. I'm not sure of the exact age these guys would be in, but I'm guessing around 5 or 6 thousand years B.C. I like the whole "red ones go faster" thing, I think it would fit in very well with that age

Eldar: Nomadic and selfsenterd, live in big cities, don't care about the other cities too much, unless there is an external threat of large enough magnitude. Obviously pre-golden-age Greece. Also very athletic, not warmongerers, just very defensive. very wise and philosophical too.

Imperium: Religious fanatics, witch hunts, Inquisitions, mass ignorance, corrupt leadership constantly infighting for power, hastily raised armies and someone utterly useless at the head of power just in place for ceremonial reasons. Anyone got that odd 17thish(not sure really, this one's an aducated guess) century medievil feeling? i don't think this needs much more explaining.

Tau: Modern Capitalism, propaganda, social separation, military intervention in the name of 'peace and order', assimilation, swift technology advances while philosophy is stagnated (generally). post WWll, just think about it, it all fits.

the next two factions aren't exactly representative of a certain age, rather than a group of people.

Dark Eldar: Thieves, murderers, cut-throats and what-not. Enough said really.

Chaos: This one's quite interesting. Ok, chaos, anarchists, anti-authoritarian revolutionaries. This is the good part
Khorne: Your classic rioters and gangs, not much else
Tzeentch: The one's who are in organizations, plan demonstrations etc.
Nurgle: those individuals who work inside the system, disrupting what they can, where and when they can.
Slaanesh: The people who are in it for the thrills, whatever they may be. Shits and giggles kind.


Well, that's it. There's probably way more to add and lots of ways to contradict, but i tried. Hope you enjoy, if you can actually get through it all.:grin:


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## NurglingStomper (Jan 31, 2009)

Well this might sound stupid, but I always though of Sanginius/Horus/Emperor as like a reference somewhat to God, Jesus, and Satan. haha whatever, just my thoughts.


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## Thanatos (Mar 23, 2009)

Ive talked... or really just blabbed onto my friend who collects tau that i believe they are communist
Farsight could be a hitler, (no offense) and the kroot could be jews, farsight no-likey kroot, hitller no-likey jews
and just like germany isnt proud of what theyve done and try to forget the past, the ethereals kinda shunned farsight for what he did
then theres the whole for the greater good crap 

you didnt mention necrons lol... go on.... you know you want to


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## primarch-angron (Mar 12, 2009)

Necrons are the time before time or the very near future because they are brainless and the only ones that can talk or feel are the Lords and the Pyrays (sorry for the spelling) or the Future because they are people in a robot suit.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Necrons have huge links with both the Lord of the Rings, and the Ancient Egyptians.

Also, the 17th Century was less Witch Hunts and Burnings, under the tutors - a lot more of that happened under the reign of the Charles', but it links better with the Dark Ages and 13th/14th Century AD.

And yeah, as has been said, the Tau are pretty much Communists - with the whole one for all and all for one thing, yet they still have a Ruling Caste, who condemn entire armies to fight for something only that Caste wanted.

The Dark Eldar and Eldar also links with the Lord of the Rings (well Silmarillion, really), rather than the real world.

Also, Necrons don't talk at all. Ever Ever Never. Don't get fooled by Dawn of War. Or CS Goto. (Khornate Sorceror riding in Boxes?)


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## moshpiler (Apr 16, 2009)

yeah i sort of had the idea that necrons would be in the future. post apocalypse, fried brains etc. also i know that Eldar/Dark Eldar are like elves and whatnot, but i was referring to the social/political structure of the factions in 40K and they're resemblance to real historical examples. and Vaz, that is what i was thinking of, just couldn't quite put my finger on it. in retrospect, the 17th century is way too close to the renaissance. i don't see Tau as commies at all, rather as neo-capitalists. sure everyone is equal on the surface, but there are some very distinct separations in their social structure. i see two parties here. the ethereals and the rest of the Tau. the ethereals say that everyone is equal, but really, they're above the rest of them, and they say who does what and so on. not communists. in my opinion:biggrin:


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## moshpiler (Apr 16, 2009)

NurglingStomper said:


> Well this might sound stupid, but I always though of Sanginius/Horus/Emperor as like a reference somewhat to God, Jesus, and Satan. haha whatever, just my thoughts.


20 jesus'? that would be quite the story :laugh:


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## Alexious (Apr 13, 2009)

The entire premise of 40k is very deeply rooted in Western Cultural ethos. 

I always saw the following and remember everyone will see very different things based off their own life and cultural experiences. A great example is how in Western Society we see black as a color of mourning but in some Asian cultures its seen as white to be the color you would wear to a funeral rite.

Anyway.... 

1). THE IMPERIUM OF MAN.

This was obviously to me a reference to the British Empire/United States of America, with very medieval overtones from a religious point of view. I give you the following as examples of why I percieve this.

1. Cadians may as well be modern US forces for their look... in all you need to do is slap a white circle with a nice 5 pointed star on anything cadian and you will look so circa 1951 onward... In fact the latest cadian models look to me like they could have stepped out of Iraq 1990 onward.

2. The entire premise of Empire has only become a dirty word in the last 30 odd years. We forget all too quickly that it was the British Empire and her now fading influences which have shaped in a lot of ways, how we think, act and communicate. The 40k Imperium is based off this to a large degree. I put the following to you especially if you live in London or a former British dependency;

a). The gothic sandstone and marble of the Imperium is very 19th century Victoriana of when Britian was indeed the worlds only real super power with staying power. Even today take a walk through a building built circa 1850 onward, everything is marble, finished, cold, columns, and roman numerals and latin text are everywhere.... just like High Gothic and the Imperium. But all the art and fluff tell us it was done so long ago.... just like we feel today... looking back into the past. 

b). The entire light of the atronimicon, the dimming of the light... the fading of man... the enroaching shadows... the language is all set to juxtaposition one statement. "The Sun never sets on the British Empire". But in our fantasy world of 40k.... it is setting. Twilight is upon the Imperium, it must be very like how some Victorians felt when Queen Victoria died... who had reigned on the throne, for over 70 odd years. Imagine her, as the figurehead of an entire empire, alone, a woman of the 19th century, confined by her sex as well as precedent... she is very much like our Emperor stuck on Terra upon his golden throne. The symbolic power and figure of the entire culture, mirrored almost... well thats what I see.

c). The Imperial Guard and the Imperial Navy. All take their names directly from British systems which are really eurocentric. We have platoons, regiments, Admirals, Captains, Majors even Storm troopers.... but they are very British/Germanic in their origins. Even the black coated Commissar is a reminder of our own Nazi pasts, an echo... but still there. 

d). The Imperium is a place of class and station. The lowly hive worker of necromunda will never leave or if he does he must advance through the ranks of the military to advance himself/herself. The same could be said of Victorian culture. Have you ever noticed that the backgrounds for your favorite characters are written this way... A primarch is superior as he was born superior.... look at Sgt Bastone, look at Knight Commander Pask, look at Captain Sicarius(?) all of them come from well to do families. There are the others like Creed who have worked their way up.... but they are the exception not the rule in the 40k galaxy. Born into a noble house.... parents are Imperial officers.... you get better education and then are pressed into Imperial service. 

3). Victorian Englad especially was big on the huge families and having lots of children... the ever rising middle classes, procreate!One thing the fluff writers have never addressed is how much sexual activity must be going on in the Imperium! My god... look at Armegedon... they must be lining up to breed down there.... billions of dead, crushed hive worlds everywhere... three massive planetary invasions and the buggers are still breeding and popping out Steel Legionaires... I find it rather funny to think what the society must be like underneath our game to support such a thing. Same with Valhalla.... something in the Vodka obviously... come here Boris..... Commander Chenkov needs another baby to carry a lasrifle and I am feeling like a sexy bulgarian tractor woman worker this evening.... (poor Boris, no wonder he strives to get into the guard) but i digress.

Each segment and arm of the Imperium takes another page from our own histories... from Attilian rough riders being gengis khan.. to Ultramarines being named Counsuls and AUGUSTUS CALGAR? Ever notice that.... Augustus inherited Ceasers mantle.... who was stabbed by Brutus and slain..... Lets say Augustus inherited the Emperors mantle who was stabbed by Horus and slain. Rather similair don't you think... In fact Calgar is just about as close to the perfection that I am sure the Emperor would have wanted to have as systems of government and prosperity are concerned. As for the religious.... its all heavily influnced by our own ideals of right and wrong and how we have dealt with things in our own cultures.... Psykers are taboo.... like the anti-Christian elements would have been seen in our own dark past. Think about the 4th century AD.... Christianity is the offical religion of empire and here come some nasty barbarians with their evil gods and pagan ways.... oh dear they are slaughtering us! Evil pagans! DIE DIE DIE... sound familiar.... insert the word Chaos with pagan and you have a good fit. (Although this really never happened, their was no massive barbarian army that marched and said hey roman empire the jig is up, hands up or I'll fill you full of bronze...) 


As for the enemies of the Imperium....


Necrons are very Ancient egyptian based with some dark Lovecraftian themes intermixed. The entire star gods.... old ones... reads directly from his novels. If you have ever read them the old ones and the necrons go hand in hand with his mythos. Even the word... Necro meaning dead from the greek. I also see other influences in them however. The unfeeling, the cyborg, the computer mind.... very Terminator... note how they were at pains to show in the art the Necons with a green light always..... but think of a Terminator from the film, red glow, red eyes.... They have captured it, but you don't immediately see the resemblence on first glance.

Tau.... so Japanese animee has returned to strike us down.... lets blend it with communism and call it the greater good. Works well... this was a good design concept... but the entire battletech feel of it comes through to me or robotech or hell even Star blazers circa 1982? the colors, the feel, the way its done...


Eldar.... very much based off the High Elves of fantasy... notice how they are dying out in every bloody world or book you read? They are the faded... god sake die already... (sorry no such eldar fan here unless its harlequins). The Eldar are a bit like the Ancient Greeks or a lost part of it... Atlantis... the high point of a lost civilization steeped in misery.... and note how they talk about no fading lights.... its fading song..... fading tales.... fading stories.... very Ancient Greek and Homer like. (The Ancient Greeks did not write everything down for quite awhile and had bards and storytellers tell the tales or sing them).


I am sure you can all think of how you view different things in the game. The funiest thing hit me when I look back at it...

Space marines.... notice how they never did a black and white with white being the base color? Too much like Imperial Storm Troopers and Lord Vader. 
Look at your founding chapters.... white scars are based in white but you see them with red highlights.... never black. I didnt even think about the cultural cross over or why GW never did a black white chapter but after looking at in the big picture they played it very smart...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

moshpiler said:


> i don't see Tau as commies at all, rather as neo-capitalists. sure everyone is equal on the surface, but there are some very distinct separations in their social structure. i see two parties here. the ethereals and the rest of the Tau. the ethereals say that everyone is equal, but really, they're above the rest of them, and they say who does what and so on. not communists. in my opinion:biggrin:


There has never been anything as such as a True Communist country, as there are always some fatcats who get rich, so I fully agree with that.


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## Thanatos (Mar 23, 2009)

nice work Alexious i share alot of views about warhammer with u:drinks::friends:


> There has never been anything as such as a True Communist country, as there are always some fatcats who get rich, so I fully agree with that.


i think this has got to be the problem in any communist society that has existed, there IS always a class system, no matter how hard they try to hide it and there IS always some higher authority
now as for tyranids?? lol theres always gonna be one race u forgot :laugh:


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## moshpiler (Apr 16, 2009)

hmm tyranids... dictatorship


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## imntdead (Apr 21, 2008)

I am a bit surprised no one said this; but I look at the Four Dark Gods of Chaos as the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse from Revelations in the Bible 

The first being Conquest would be Slaanesh 
The Second being War would be Khorne
The Third being Famine would be Tzeentch
The Forth being Death would be Nurgle

and if they ever actually do Malal again he would be Lucifer

but thats just me :victory:


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## Israfil (Jul 6, 2008)

tyranids are like the germanic tribes that attacked Rome in what ever year that was. so they are like the Goths, Huns, Vandals etc.


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## The Blackadder (Jan 8, 2009)

Rome fell to the barbarians in 476 AD. I also think the Sm's are roman legionares with all the eagles and other symbology that is afixxed to legionares.


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## ogrebane (May 3, 2009)

There is no doubt the SM are romans. they even have all the roman setups.
A legion is made up of legionares (heavy infantry) and is rulled but a centurian (Captain of 100 legionarres)

Even the two missing legions are straight out of roman history.

I believe the Tua are definitely communist China.

Also the Nids are from Alien no doubt. Just like a plaque of locusts.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

None of these revelations are surprising in the least. After all the most popular games/toys/movies are either based on historical themes, or outright plundered from other cultures ect. After all only a few truly revolutionary ideas or concepts make it, and even less are appreciated in their own age.


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## Mud213 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah the Nids were clearly inspired by Alien. I'm really glad nobody said that Nid's came from Starcraft... The way their society functions is much like an ant hive with a large hive mind controlling everything. The warrior classes and the worker classes. There isn't exactly a "Queen," but they reproduce differently so there doesn't need to be a Queen.

I really do like the obvious Roman and English themes that flow through the Imperium. There must have been some parallels drawn to the Star Wars Empire too. Since the Captains where armor and fight alongside the troops in battle isn't all that similar to Star Wars, but everything spacey is to some degree influenced by it.

Another minor thing is how the different Hunters and obviously the Black Templar were parallels to Christian crusaders and the Knights Templar. Instead of finding real deamons, there was still talk about what they must be like and how to deal with them. Also instead of the xenos being aliens, they were pagans and Muslims. The secret assassins of Christian lore inspired the secret assassins Order (which is so secret it doesn't even have it's own codex tehe).

As for Tau being communists, I must say that those sea-cattle(?) have the mindset of "for the greater good" which is communist in nature. Much like every real "communist" country, there are different castes, the working, and the government/army. Like in the book 1984, by ignoring the real issue at hand (they have a caste society which may make the lower castes upset), they focus on "the good fight." The argument for it being a neo-capitalist society is flawed in that communism is a government system and capitalism is an economic one. There are not large corporations running everything (like in capitolism), the government is one and all is the government (sort of). I'm not necessarily up to snuff on my tau fluff, but I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be like a communist society...with Mechs...and vehicles named after fish from a planet they've never been too...in a language they never heard until recently...


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## Eliazar (Jan 28, 2009)

I think the Imperial Guard commissars were rather inspired by Soviet commissars than by the Nazis.
After all, they had thousand of badly equipped soldiers who just won by being so numerous, sacrificed them without hesitating and only had good weapons for the commissars to shoot anyone who dares to run (if you've seen the film "Duell - Enemy at the Gates", you know what I mean).
As far as I know, the Nazis did not even have commissars, while they feature prominently in Soviet/Communist history.


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## moshpiler (Apr 16, 2009)

i have to say that i still don't agree with the Tau=communist idea. it might seem so, but then again, in today's world everyone is "equal", though the reality of things is very different. also, communist countries never had much of a thing for expansion. ok so russia had heaps of propaganda, but so does america, albeit a subtler kind.


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## Mastermime (Mar 27, 2009)

I believe the Tau are the Star Trek Federation, they are a young energetic force who have recently broken free of the second dark age (I.E. a divided species, resource problems, global warming etc) and enjoying a second renaiscance of exploration and discovery. They are the human race in a few hundred years from now.

As for the Imperium they are most definitley the Brittish Empire, the very tag line of the game suggests as much, Gothic Punk. 

Necrons are indeed a combination of Egyptians and Lovecraft, an ancient and forgotton empire back to seek revenge.

As for Nids I believe this is where you can get philisophical, and give GW way too much credit. Nids are the AIDS/Cancer metaphor, the scary disease that will wipe out all life and to which there is no cure save the brutal poisioning and carving of a planet that leaves you weaker than before.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Mud213 said:


> Yeah the Nids were clearly inspired by Alien.
> 
> There must have been some parallels drawn to the Star Wars Empire too. Since the Captains where armor and fight alongside the troops in battle isn't all that similar to Star Wars, but everything spacey is to some degree influenced by it.


The original Genestealers were a direct (cough) rip off (cough) of Alien, but now I would say that the Nids owe more to Starship Troopers in terms of influence.

As for Star Wars, I think 40K owes more to Mr Lucas than people give credit for.
The whole setting is like an inverted 'gothed' up Star Wars. The Emperor in both settings is ancient and decrepit but still amazingly powerful. 
The Jedi are rogue psykers or Chaos followers, the Sith are the Inquisition, led by the Sith lord the Emp.

As for the actual historical references, the Imperium is a huge mish mash of various times and groups from ancient Greek and Roman to dark ages Europe, the Renaissance and even Victorian. 

I'm not sure about the Gothic Punk tag line, I thought that was the RPG Vampire. I always preferred the term Grubby Fantasy which was applied to early Warhammer, where the high fantasy of Tolkien and even D&D was given a good going over with the brutality stick.


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## moshpiler (Apr 16, 2009)

[Quote:I always preferred the term Grubby Fantasy which was applied to early Warhammer, where the high fantasy of Tolkien and even D&D was given a good going over with the brutality stick.] (normtheunsavoury) 

i have to agree here. while warhammer was influenced by tolkien it has nothing of the sad "fading age" feel tolkien had in his books. the closest GW get to this is with the eldar, and even then it's sort of their fault, so you can't really feel too sorry for them. it would be pretty hard to make a miniatures wargame like that. imagine weeping over every model you remove from the table! you lose your leader in a game, consiquently spending the next three years writing an ode in his memory. not good for sales :laugh:


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## Pater Mooneye (Jun 10, 2009)

Ok here is my take

Imperium - Post-9/11 US/Catholic Church

Eldar - Ancient Japan

Dark Eldar - Modern Japanese Underground

Tau - China

Orks - Manchester United fans/frat boys

'Nids - American Consumers

Necrons - America in about 10-20 years

Chaos:
Khorne - tribal headhunters
Tzeentch - Lawyers
Slaneesh - prostitutes
Nurgle - no idea


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## Ijustmadethisup4 (Apr 7, 2009)

Lol...cute Pater Mooneye.
Not the biggest American fan huh


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## Eliphas (Jun 23, 2009)

Pater Mooneye said:


> Chaos:
> Khorne - tribal headhunters
> Tzeentch - Lawyers
> Slaneesh - prostitutes
> Nurgle - no idea


Heh.
I loled.:rofl:


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## Pater Mooneye (Jun 10, 2009)

Ijustmadethisup4: I am a fan of the founding fathers idea of America but not what it has turned into (if you want to continue this then PM me)

Eliphas: thanks for the lol


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## imntdead (Apr 21, 2008)

Kroot are pretty much any savage cannibals

Orks can simply be ********



Pater Mooneye said:


> Ijustmadethisup4: I am a fan of the founding fathers idea of America but not what it has turned into (if you want to continue this then PM me)


Just take it as a yes he doesn't like Americans


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## Pater Mooneye (Jun 10, 2009)

Actually for the Kroot I would say the Polynesians because their cultures bear strong resemblances to each other with the whole "eat the enemy gain it's power" aspect.


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## pylco (Jun 2, 2008)

> Orks - Manchester United fans/frat boys
> 
> 'Nids - American Consumers
> 
> ...


nice one!!!!!!


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## Pater Mooneye (Jun 10, 2009)

thanks pylco


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## moshpiler (Apr 16, 2009)

uhhh what's a modern japanese underground? oh and by the way does anyone think that nurgle could be the homeless or something? dirty and hard to remove?


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