# Completely random idea that I've had



## hells_fury (Apr 17, 2008)

ok, while at work i had a brain wave. many players create their own chapters, regiments tribes and so forth. with the fluff these players would have their own heros. now my idea is that GW releases a book for designing your own heros.

it would have the basic stats , so BS 1 is worth .5 points while BS 7 is worth 10 points ect ect. also the universal rules such as fearless and stubborn would be there for so much.

then it gets split to army sections, the special abilities and wargear they can can take, such as sisters, it would cost say 3 points to make the hero faithfull and so many more points for each faith points.

just a random idea i had, what does everyone else think about it? :victory:


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## BrotherYorei (May 9, 2009)

i think that would be a great idea. i dont think it will happen soon if at all, cause they are so far behind on everything else. i have characters ive come up with and im having trouble figuring points totals, so a book like that would help.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Maybe us here at heresy could do something like this with a team put together, PM Gal or Jez to see what they think of it, though legally this may be hard to have something like if we use GW rules and describing what each does with a piints value.


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

I like it, but will it ever happen? They did VDR (Vehicle Design Rules) but these were chapter approved and only on consent of who you were playing. I can't see why a system for creating characters is not possible. But as Brother Yorei stated GW are behind and as Blue Liger suggested it is a legal minefield for us to devise it. If only there was a way to prototype a GW sanctioned system...


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## BolterGlory (May 18, 2009)

A while back i found an article deep hidden somewhere on the old games workshop website that gave rules to create your own creatures, useing a similar system to the one you thought of


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## jasonfly (Feb 1, 2009)

I had this idea a few times, if someone could make point costs that would not be overpowered but still competitive would be great.


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## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

There was a white dwarf article around the end of 3rd ed, beginning of 4th that let you create aliens for your games. It had a system a lot like what you are talking about.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Pauly55 said:


> There was a white dwarf article around the end of 3rd ed, beginning of 4th that let you create aliens for your games. It had a system a lot like what you are talking about.


This was the Tyranid version of Vehicle Design Rules which basically allowed you to make your own "bugs" just like SM/IG/Whatnot could make their own Vehicles. In a way it was awsome, in most other ways it was useless.

Useless? Yea. The average gamer tends to abuse everything he can to its max, this kind of freedom has a HUGE "ruins the game potential" and I honestly think that thats the biggest reason something like this wont be reality:stop:


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## raverboi (Jan 15, 2009)

yea, i doubt a gw release, but a heresy release would take off!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Well, the Creature Feature rules from White Dwarf a few years back might be a decent place to start, though I think a fan-made one here on Heresy would be better.

The really unfortunate part of it all though is that, inevitably, power gaming types will take the rules, analyze them for a couple weeks, find the most powerful builds and loopholes in the rules and within a month you'd see the same old "custom" character time and again.

I suppose the one saving grace is that the true power gamers rarely use unofficial rules, especially if home brewn.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Though if we take our time doing so and limit certain rules and points this would stop it. In other words show choice but make it so we force the hand of power gamers in that knowing what can be done we limit it , eg when saying the SC may take 3 USR at 200+ points make sure they can't have FNP, Eternal Warrior, and Furious Charge and then to top it off have a 3+ invulnerbale save, so we could negate this by the setup and making sure rules fit in with the fluff and barriers of the game and the army they are for.

Have a base stat line for each race that each character starts off at - put in certain wargear options from that specific codex that they can take and leave out points so they have to have that codex to know how much they will cost. To upgrade stats put them in bundles and point cost them out- Eg: for +1 BS, Ld and T it will cost 25pts but for +1S and A it will cost 20pts and then say for characters under 150pts may only have 2 of these for under 100 1 of these and for 200+ 3 of these making so they can make a charcter but you won't see 500pt characters with all stats at 8 with a Ld of 10 and an invul save of 2+ with Eternal Warrior and FNP


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

Makes sense Blue Liger like where your going. If we were to leave out points costs and descriptions it is not revealing anything to people who have not bought the codexes and should therefore have no legal issues. Is there an issue showing race basic stat lines?

I have also just found the afore mentioned Creature Feature lurking on my hard drive. If anyone would like a look let me know and we can work something out.

As far as I can see it we would have to break it down.

Stats - Obviously the natural abilites of the character, Basic race stat line plus improvements.
Armoury - Weapons and Armour
Wargear - Wargear that improves his ability to fight a battle (bikes, etc.)
Special Rules - I think this would have to be limited to USR. Although making up you own special rules is enticing. Maybe we could make up new special rules and assign them a points cost as we are doing with the USR.

Well it is not impossible. I think this might need a new thread title from the OP.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

back in the day a similar system was used for the orks weapons, possibly vehicles too, but anyway it was possibly for your mech boy to build custom jobs for weapons so you could get area effect lascannons and other weird combos as long as you paid for the points and to even it out the ork opponent was given a random number of malfunction cards that he could play when they ork player used the weapons, again they results were random they could simply stop the weapon from firing to increase its power or even have a massive explosion killing the ork and his buddies nearby, those games were very very fun, not very tactical but seriously funny and enjoyable.


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## hells_fury (Apr 17, 2008)

MaidenManiac said:


> This was the Tyranid version of Vehicle Design Rules which basically allowed you to make your own "bugs" just like SM/IG/Whatnot could make their own Vehicles. In a way it was awsome, in most other ways it was useless.
> 
> Useless? Yea. The average gamer tends to abuse everything he can to its max, this kind of freedom has a HUGE "ruins the game potential" and I honestly think that thats the biggest reason something like this wont be reality:stop:


of course people will abuse something if they get it, but why punish the people that want the extra bit of diversity and uniqueness, look at anything, people find a way to abuse it, so why hold back something fun cause some people will be a dick about it

@ blue liger, i li ke where your going, if im reading correctly i think its like RPGs right, a 100 point hero gets + so many stats, a 200 point hero gets + a bit more stats while each stat has a max limit that can be added to? did i get it right lol, if not my bad lol

as for the heresy putting together a guide i think it would bring GW down on us, and id rather heresy then a point listing, maybe if we got into contact with them and got a go ahead from them (highly doubt but tryings better then not) and then a select few can work on it in a private thread idk lols

but thinking on it this should really be an add on, one off my fave things is the diversity the game offers, most armies have their own paint schemes, the creative make their own fluff, but then when it comes to heros, theres no diversity, just wat GW makes and i feel kinda let down, sure theres the wargear but its not too much diversity, one of my fave things about RPG's is the diversity that you get when making your hero, now a game like 40k needs that, sure there will be the power builds but then there will be the people who use it for the right reasons and make the games funner ^^ hmm i think i made sense lols:victory:


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Yes you got it on the spot, RPG builder style as you said it means you can have those power gamer guys in there but it's going to cost alot more to field it but it will tajke up most of your army, you see if we focus this on the fact that we want to put it into a standard game of upto 2500pts then players will make characters within those limitations but it still allows for those who wich to in those points field an Ultimate Character with all these insignificant minions and then also allows this to go apoc where that Ultimate Character can be brought back down to earth in having to face several super heavies that can take him out though it may take 2 turns instead of one.


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## air (May 11, 2009)

Would completely defeat the point of picking an army.
You could have a whole army of nids with cc weapons and then one hero with eight multi-purpose guns at the back.
why not stick a basilisk cannon on a chimera with lascannon sponsons 6 pintle bolters and a hull mounted plasma cannon.
t'would be a bit ridiculous

☻/
/▌
/ \


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

air said:


> Would completely defeat the point of picking an army.
> You could have a whole army of nids with cc weapons and then one hero with eight multi-purpose guns at the back.
> why not stick a basilisk cannon on a chimera with lascannon sponsons 6 pintle bolters and a hull mounted plasma cannon.
> t'would be a bit ridiculous
> ...


Well, using the Vehicle Design rules, that vehicle would cost 237 points, assuming you want to maintain the vehicle's transport ability.

Not so ridiculous, especially when it can't fire any of its other weapons if it fires the Earthshaker Cannon.

It only gets silly if somebody decides to abuse the rules in question. The best way to prevent rule abuse is to make upgrades expensive, so that a Tyranid with a ton of multi-purpose guns would be so outrageously expensive that it wouldn't be worth fielding.


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

So wait, 2 twin linked devourers on carnifexes is defeating the point? Does this option already exist?

It may not be that the upgrades themselves are expensive, but when you take a number of them the cost is multiplied. For example they can take two weapons at the normal cost but after that they cost twice as much.

I think they only way this is really gonna get started if we can know for sure that we are not going to be infringing any copyright. If anyone can do this it would be the best possible start.


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

im going to have a lot of time soon as im about to hit the end of summer term, woo uni. so id be happy to help with some of this. 

iv played the creature feature rules quite a bit and found them to provide strong imbalance at times. especially the megasour for 170 points. they really threw a game and two took down my entire csm army at one point. (and that had a pair of dreads in it).


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

There's no infringement as long as we're not tossing around entire statlines and quoting massive chunks of the rulebook and Codex books.


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## Shadow Hawk (Apr 26, 2009)

I think it's a good idea, but it certainly has its flaws. I've thought of this before, because I'm fed up of either having another craftworlds special character or a ridiculously priced phoenix lord. 
I read about this for vehicles on the GW website if anyone wants to look
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?community=&catId=cat1300034&categoryId=900006&pIndex=0&aId=6700007&start=1

It says just have a guess. Power Players would abuse.
It would be great if we had a solution, but there needs to be limits and we would also need to decide on the base for each race.


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

base cost for each race could be biased to prevent one being to powerful and could be tweeked after some playtesting.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

As Kate said anything with a billion upgrades will cost billions of points to make it exaggurated. But if you say a basic SM marine to start with and make it say 30pts but has 2 wounds, then to upgrade his BS and WS by 1 each (these two count as 1 upgrade pack) will cost you 15pts and he becomes then he is 45pts but now has as BS and WS of ... now as he is under 100pts he can take only 1 USR but if you say upgrade his iniative, wounds, Ld and attacks he may now be 90, then you give him so wargear and he goes to 120pts and now as he is over 100pts and so can now have 2 USR but the second will cost say 10pts making him 130pts then you can choose to give him a special rule that we create (out of say a possible 5) and that's 20pts or 10pts depending on what it does then say he is now at 150 pts he can now upgrade 2 more stats in his profile by 1 (to a maximum of 10 of course) for an extra 20pts and then your done. And his special rule maybe something like his plasma pistol is a 2 shot pistol and only rolls one gets hot dice or he doesnt roll for gets hot at all due to his skill with one. On top of this any standard rules a HQ of that race and type of HQ may have they will also have so they may end of with - the special design plasma gun rule, and they shall no no fear, combat tactics, fearless and then say he chose FNP and Furious Charge and he costs 170pts, in a way this make it so the most a character will cost is say 250pts but they are not going to be indestructable but they will be alot of points and yes you may have a billion guns on him but he can still only fire 1 a turn unless a special rule that we make says he can fire 2.


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## hells_fury (Apr 17, 2008)

blue, i like how your mind works, ok, so what i was thinking is instead of bieng allowed so many stats for your point cost each player can spend upto +2 points into each stat, so a space marine can go from BS 4 to BS 6, but they can only spend so many points, say about 6 points max. 

also different skills would cost different points, BS and WS are worth say 15 points per upgrade as they are usefull in only 1 situation, Ld should be worth more, say 25 points as it is extremaly usefull in multiple situations.

on a side note wow, i never expected that we would discuss making our own guide as i thought it would be illegal but i know little about laws ^^


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## Shadow Hawk (Apr 26, 2009)

What about taking points away from the baseline. maybe -1 ld gives you 5 points off, and -2 ld might give you 15 and so on. and different points for different catagories so instead of 5 points for -1 BS, it could be 10 points for -1 BS


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

I like where you are going fury, but maybe certain stats have a stricter limit by race. Toughness for example I know of only one marine character with toughness 6. Plus if we give them the option to take a bike for example, that will become 6 (7)! which I think puts you between demon prince and wraithlord!

Well the logical place to start would be basic race stat lines. If we start posting these are we gonna be infringing copyright? Or if we titled it "Space Marine Template" or "Tyranid Template" and a stat line then I am pretty sure that because it is "our" template it is not infringing already written GW stat lines. If ours and GW's stat lines are the same then it will be coincidence. I hope that makes sense....


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Well yes that's the reason for the base stat lines and then in the character creation rules saying if your suing a standad marine T5 is the maximum toughness in non wargear upgrades you may have and then a Deamon Prince creation stat line will say max toughness 7, this way it allows players like the tyranids who have say a carnifex don't feel like they don't have a unique creature in their army as a T10 marine would be a little farfetched even if it did cost say 1000pts to do so it would take away from the game and hence we thinking of making it so that characters and the creatures we do have a point cap where it becomes so they can't take anymore wargear hence working with a modified GW base line for creatures we will allow for customisation in each army of that unit to a point so you won't see 500pt charcters on the board I think the most you'd see when we get round to making this up would be a carnifex at say 350pts tops


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

Love it. Are we doing anything with this? Or shall we leave it is a workable concept? I personally would love to be involved in making this work. Anyone else?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I'm in. Should we start a thread in Houserules and Homebrews?


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## Shadow Hawk (Apr 26, 2009)

Good idea.
oooohhh, im getting excited
:crazy:


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

That would be a great idea (my guys would've been T5 due to their dam resilience when in cover :biggrin: ) But yea as Katie said it'll all do downhill to the hungry power-gamers that roam the world.


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

As requested Katie New Thread


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## cloudco (May 13, 2009)

good idea but i doubt gw would let anytime soon. pluss how would u find out points for specific wepons and stats ect.


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