# How to make a good CSM Terminator Squad



## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

Recently, and most often, I have seen a lot of the CSM Term squads in most of the army lists having a lot of Combi weapons, more Heavy Flamers than Reaper Autocannons, and a spread of CC weapons. I was wondering, why this seems to be the trend. Why not make them shooty or CC instead of in between. Plus I dont have much experience with Combi-Weapons so if someone can explain to me the goodness of them in the hands of CSM Terms, that would be great.


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I give some of my termis combi weapons is for the "what if" factor. You never know when the chance will come when you can deepstrike to within 6" of a tank/PC/Dread or whatnot. 2 or 3 combi meltas can come in handy when you are stuck shooting that turn and can't assault to get a PF or Chainfist to do the dirty work. Also this may also stun the crew forcing the vehicle to remain stationary so you can get in to let the PF or Chainfist get it's chance. 

As far as the reaper, I usually take it over the Heavy Flamer. I will sometimes throw in a combiflamer for the "what if" scenario. For the cheap cost it doesn't affect the overall structure of my army as I would need at least 3 combi weapons to equal the cost of my cheapest single model choice. Of course the loss of being able to reroll to hit with a twin linked bolter is lost as a trade off.


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## SpaNNerZ (Jun 17, 2008)

I agree with mgtymouze over the "what if" factor on the combi weapons, certainly for 10 pts bein able to pop a tank on the way round the battlefield is a massive bonus.
The heavy Flamer though I rather over the reaper is the range. you can have two in a squad of six and although you may be able to shoot as you wander up, as termie squad you shouldnt be wandering up and termies are ment to be in thick of it no running the outskirts of battle to shoot in with 36" between them and the enemy.
thats my reason anyway.:biggrin:

peace out:victory:


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## Danger1887 (Jun 11, 2008)

Terminators can fire heavy weapons on the move, so it can come on handy if you don't wanna deep strike in.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

at 5 points per, upgrading to combi's can be really good. yes, you lose the twin-linked, but as other have been saying, the tactical flexibility is brilliant. A couple of meltas to pop a tank, or a couple of flamers to wipe out hoards, or a couple of plasmas to get rid of heavy infantry fast. 

If you think about it, for 3 combi-plasmas you pay 15 points, the same as for a single plasma gun in a CSM squad, and if used properly you can get 6 shots off using them, probably the same or more as you'd get from a regular plasma gunner, but you can use your shots more flexibly, have less chance of killing yourself, and you can charge after firing. Every rapid firing combi-plasma is on average more than a marine dead (or 3/4 of a terminator), more than worth a 5pt input.

The only reason I wouldn't take all plasma though is that if you go against, say, guard, that plasma gun will still only kill one guardsman(less than using a regular twin-bolter!). So against expensive heavy troops its very very much worth it, but unless you're facing them all the time, it can be a gamble. And you have to convert all your own plasmas, as the box doesn't come with them, which is annoying.

For mixing cc weapons, flexibility is the key again. Add a power fist and a chain fist to a squad, and you have the flexibility to take down anything. Vehicles and MCs with the CF/PF, the power weapons to take out loyalist termies ect. before they can use their fists/THammers, and all are useful against MEQs.

as for mixing shooty and assaulty weapons, they're still good, as you can move shoot and charge with all weapons, you can use the shooty until you charge into combat, and then usually you'll be able to end combat before your turn comes round again, so you can move and shoot again. 

Heavy flamers are popular because they are sooooo so cheap, and soooo nasty. St5 AP4 will wipe out most troops with ease. The reaper auto is good, and adds some good anti light vehicle, but you can nearly get another terminator for its price, so most people go with cheap and nasty, over expensive and possibly not that useful. I personally like them, as at least it allows your terminators to do something useful if they end up in the wrong place and have to go waddling around trying to get back to the action.


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## SpaNNerZ (Jun 17, 2008)

maddermax said:


> I personally like them, as at least it allows your terminators to do something useful if they end up in the wrong place and have to go waddling around trying to get back to the action.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:laugh::laugh::laugh:
WADDLING TERMINATORS 
Imagine that:laugh:

peace out:victory:


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

If you want my usual setup, I like having a minimum unit of terminators. People FREAK when three terminators with a heavy flamer and power fist can hit the field for a measly 105 points.

Also if you want to be just nasty to anyone except a nightbringer, get a decently sized sixish-man squad and pop the icon of tzeentch on them. If they deep strike onto on objective/into the frontline, the enemy has a massively resilient force, all having power weapons and possibly a fist/combi weapons.

I've tried the combi rush(summon and blast off all the combis) but it doesn't fit my style of play. I'm not saying it's a bad strategy, just that I'd prefer a reliable weapon. Although it's nearly mandatory for the heavy flamer and some way of dealing with tanks.


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

Are Lightning Claws at all worth it because its mostly been Power Fists and Chain Fists.


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

lightning claws are worth it especialy against marines, powerfists are nice but attacking last is a pain in the butt. termi's with an icon of tzeench or khorne can do nasty things, as it's hard to kill anythin with a 2+/4+ and the thought of a cc termi squad that all have extra attacks makes me happy inside. combi weapons are nice for the what if scenario's so when i take termi's i usualy thow in one or two


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

DarKKKKK said:


> Are Lightning Claws at all worth it because its mostly been Power Fists and Chain Fists.


I tend to run 2 lightning claws with 2 of my combi weapon termis (single lightning claw per) and a PF or Chainfist on my reaper autocannon. I find that piling the upgrades on models like this allow me to pull the standard twin linked with power weapon termis off first and still have the expensive weapons.

I like the LC ability to reroll to wound and being able to strike at Initiative instead of taking a pumling because a PF is going to strike last. Then again I also prefer the Chainfist over powerfists because of the 2D6 AP on tin cans and it still doubles strength like a PF.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

LCs are good, but in a mixed squad, I'd rather have a couple of power fists, mainly because you're regular PWs will be striking in I order anyway, and so will be able to get their attack in, and if you lose a guy or two you just lose the ones that have already hit, and hit back with power fists. I would however consider a couple of pairs of them very useful in a squad with the mark of slaanesh, wipe out marines before they have a chance! 

As for squad size, I'd go for 4 rather than 3, as you're still only going to drop below 50% when you have one guy left, and if you lose 2 guys, you're still a scoring unit. 145 points for 4 termies, a PF, a MoCG, and a H.Flamer, add in a couple of combi's if you like for flavor. 

I am though flirting with the idea of a unit of 10 with the mark of tzeench. About 400 points for the setup I'm thinking of, and you get a pile of unstoppability. I love termies.


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

mgtymouze said:


> Then again I also prefer the Chainfist over powerfists because of the 2D6 AP on tin cans and it still doubles strength like a PF.


I didnt know that, I thought a chainfist only got you the 2D6 AP on vehicles not also double strength like a PF. 

Anyway....so a squad like this would be good, maybe a bit expensive?

Chaos Terminator Squad: 245 pts
-Icon of Chaos Glory
-Champion w/ Pair of Lightning Claws
-2 Combi-Plasmas w/ Lightning Claw
-1 Combi-Melta w/ Chainfist
-Heavy Flamer w/ Power Fist


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Nah, chainfists are power fists with +2d6 pen vs. vehicles, so any hit will penetrate av14 most of the time, brilliant.

I think you left out something there, 5 termies with that setup would set you back 235. Anyway, having that many special weapons ups the points a bit, and means that if you take casualties you'll be losing expensive guys, rather than cheap basic guys. I'd drop at least one of them, or add another terminator to pad it out a bit. Also, Champions usually aren't needed so much, so unless you have 10 points to spare, I wouldn't bother.


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

I did miss count somehow, I dont know where, but it is still 245 pts with my re-count. 

(5=150pts) Chaos Terminator Squad: 245 pts
-Icon of Chaos Glory (+10 pts)
-Champion w/ Pair of Lightning Claws (+20 pts)
-2 Combi-Plasmas w/ Lightning Claw (+30 pts)
-1 Combi-Melta w/ Chainfist (+20 pts)
-Heavy Flamer w/ Power Fist (+15 pts)


Actually with what I have set up for my army, I guess a champion isnt THAT important, I'll probably just change him to a regular Term with all standard equipment. Thanks for all the useful info on "How to make a good CSM Term squad" :victory:


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## Untitled401 (May 12, 2008)

If you want to have a small but strong close combat termi squad then you could have this:
3 Terminators
3 Champs
3 Pairs of lightning claws
150pts

On the charge they will have base 2 attacks each, +1 for champ status, +1 for charge, +1 for extra close combat weapon, so 15 attacks that ignore armour and you get to re-roll to wound. That one turn alone will get their points worth and if you're lucky they'll consolidate into another squad, killing even more dudes. People often make the mistake in concentrating fire power on the termi's when they are designed to die anyway. 

For shooty termi squads, you could try something big like:
10 Terminators
2 Reaper Auto Cannons
2 Chainfists
4 Combi Melta
Icon of Tzeentch
435pts

or half

5 Terminators 
Reaper Auto cannon
Chainfist
2 Combi Melta
Icon of Tzeentch
235pts

again, the more termi's the more scared your opponent is of the squad so the more they will get shot at so idealy you dont want them to have too much wargear. For the fun of it you could try something like:

10 Terminators
Chainfist 
2 Combi Meltas
325pts


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

Thats some nice info there, for now I will just be running a squad of 5 until I get enough money to maybe buy that new Doombringer Annihilation Chaos Force (link: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...050&prodId=prod1420003&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k ) which comes with 15 CSM Terminators and a Terminator Lord. That probably wont be for a while though since I wanna get a bunch of Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, Thousand sons, a third Rhino, a second Defiler, 2 Daemon Princes, and the list could go on and unfortunately by the time I MIGHT get all that, it wont be on the shelves anymore. The box set is an amazing deal getting a Terminator Lord and a third squad of CSM Terms for free from basically buying just 2 Term squads and ONLY $90. It maybe a deal to hard to pass up no matter what I may need first :mrgreen:


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## jjalber (May 14, 2008)

That box of termies is sick.Anyways i have a squad of 5 termies but they were the first models i ever put together and this is before i had any concept of the game, so i put 4 powerfists on it becaus they looked cool, way expensive but i have had some good runs deepstriking next to vehicles and popping them, the other half of the time they do okay but not enough to earn their points back.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

DarKKKKK said:


> I did miss count somehow, I dont know where, but it is still 245 pts with my re-count.
> Chaos Terminator Squad: 245 pts


right sorry, missed the other set of LCs with the combi-plasma. If you want, take that squad in a Land Raider and give them the mark of slaanesh, you'll be able to take out any squad you touch. 

15 termies in the box eh? hmm.....thirty termies overkill? nah, of course not:laugh:


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## krootman (Jun 19, 2008)

The best thing about chaos terms in my opinion is the fact that they can get Initiative 5 thanks to the Icon of Slaanesh. That makes them almost as good as terms in the last codex that could get furious charge. In smaller games I would run this term squad..

4 terms
-icon of slaanesh
- heavy flamer
140 points. Its cheep and it will still mual a tactical squad that costs almost double its points and a heavy flamer shot will soften up targets.

In larger games I would take either 2 units of the above squad 
6 terms 
-icon of slaanesh
-5 pairs of lighting claws
-1 powerfist
-heavy flamer
260

I understand this squad does cost a good bit of points but it will be good vs everything 28 I5 power wep attacks on the charge is no laughing matter), and if you give them a bit of support and protection they will even be ok in the new 5th ed rules (Ie use transports to shield the terms after they wipe out your opponent in combat.)


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

well chaos termis can use mark t to get a 4+ invul or mark k for extra attacks (with lightning claws its nasty)


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

maddermax said:


> right sorry, missed the other set of LCs with the combi-plasma. If you want, take that squad in a Land Raider and give them the mark of slaanesh, you'll be able to take out any squad you touch.
> 
> 15 termies in the box eh? hmm.....thirty termies overkill? nah, of course not:laugh:


No such thing as overkill in any army until it hurts your points and the expense of 3 squads of 10 Terminators......wait, let me say that again, 3 squads of 10 Terminators, sounds nice :mrgreen:


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

yeah, and if you decide to go for a basic setup, you can field 30 for 1000 points....for a decent setup? about 1200 or so. A couple of terminator lords, some oblitoratorsr and some troops? 800. The look on your opponents face when he sees you brought a terminator hoard? Priceless.


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## drazhar (Jun 20, 2008)

maddermax said:


> yeah, and if you decide to go for a basic setup, you can field 30 for 1000 points....for a decent setup? about 1200 or so. A couple of terminator lords, some oblitoratorsr and some troops? 800. The look on your opponents face when he sees you brought a terminator hoard? Priceless.



That is a kodac moment :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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