# the tone without the suck?



## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

can anyone recommend any Non-BL sci-fi which captures the tone/feel of 40K but isn't, you know... written so poorly?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Any William King Space Wolf Novel, and any by Dan Abnett. Execution Hour is excellent as well.

Edit - ignore that... Any Non-BL, non crap, 40K book? None. Or none that I've come across.


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

Not quite. I know its going to be tough to get a 40K book that's not published by BL. The problem I have is that I love almost all of the short bits of fiction they stick into the rulebooks & codex's (plural of codex is?) but after reading about a dozen novels I'm just terribly sick of the _terrible_ editing, and (generally - not always) overly simplistic story arcs & character.

What I'm after is any piece of science fiction which captures the feel of the 40k universe - it doesn't need to have space marines & tyranids. I like the concept of the intergalactic dark age & I'd like to find something else... I'm loath to use the term "high fiction" (god I hated that in high scool...) so I'll just say "high*er* fiction"...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Hmmm... if you're looking for developed character, Leoten Semper and the rest of the Lord Solar Macharius from Execution Hour are up with the Ragnar novels.

A few anthologies, such as Crucible of War are okayish, but those are really just undeveloped shorts, which are just little prose pieces.


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

m3rr3k said:


> (plural of codex is?)


 
"Codices" is the proper plural for codex.


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## cheaky (Jan 20, 2009)

i really enjoyed Revelation Space (spoilers) by Alastair Reynolds. It's "Hard" sciencefiction (being based on what we know as fact today, but expanding on certain things, but within the realms of reality). Very cool, galactic scale story.


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## Rafen (Oct 21, 2008)

*WHat*

I am confused you want a black library book that isnt BL but still the same quality/action/warhammer-y minus the BL. I dont understand your logic in this but there is ... dare i say it the starwars titles that seem to go on or posably the halo novles. Personaly i would stick with BL books.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Rafen said:


> I am confused you want a black library book that isnt BL but still the same quality/action/warhammer-y minus the BL. I dont understand your logic in this but there is ...


No, he wants a grim and gtitty sci-fi book that doesn't suck. I think it's pretty straightforward. The only potentially confusing thing is when he said it would "tough" to get a 40k book not published by BL. For "tough" read "impossible". Or, alternatively, for "40k" read "40k-like".

M3rr3k - you might want to gove "Dune" a try. It's not exactly the Galactic Dark Age but it's not far off. It's hellishly complex with plots, counter plots, assignations (and assassinations) betrayals, unexpected... everything... byzantine organisations with inscrutable motives and _lots of agonising in italics_ which are very important.

Unfortunately, Frank Herbert was also completely mental and it shows. But it's a grand and epic romp anyway. A bit like if the Lord of the Rings was an allegory for the rise of Islam set in space written by an acid casualty.

Lots of people think it's really crap. Other people think it's genius. Me, I think it's somewhat self-indulgent and overlong, but has merit. But being one of the most famous sci-fi books ever written, you should be able to find it pretty much anywhere which is a great advantage over most other stuff.

:cyclops in a stillsuit:


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## xiawujing (Mar 2, 2009)

Wait wait wait wait... You want well-written, "good literature" science-fiction?

Well you have... oh wait no. But then there's... um wait. Well. You've stumped me. Why would you even want "good literature" sci-fi? If you're reading sci-fi aren't you in it for the tech and such? Not the writing style? I mean crap writing is unnacceptable, but BL seems to put out exactly what people need from 40K books.


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## Imperial Anvil (Mar 9, 2009)

I read the Imperial guard omnibus: volume one, three short stories by Mitchel Scanlon, Steve Lyons and Steve Parker, by BL.

I found it to be quite dark, and for me, gave me insight into the world as an imperial guardsmen.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

*posting from work*

Dark Sci-Fi that's non-BL? Hmm...off the top of my head:

• Stephen' Donaldson's 'Gap' series is absolutely excellent - grim, convoluted and very intense stuff but utterly captivating. It's one of my all-time favourite genre works by anyone - just buy all 5 of them, you really won't be disappointed. 

• Peter F. Hamilton's 'Night's Dawn' trilogy isn't quite so dark but it's still superb stuff in the space opera tradition, that's well worth a read too. His duology of _Pandora's Star_ and _Judas Unchained_ is also very very good, with one of the most compellingly scary (and also well-written) 'implacable foe'-type alien nemeses for a long time.

• Iain M. Banks' _Feersum Endjinn_ isn't as bleak as 40K but it's fun and absolutely barking mad, kind of a futuristic _Gormenghast_ in feel. Well worth reading (as are his Culture series of novels, which I love, also _The Algebraist_).

• Although not actually sci-fi, a very odd little pairing that's well worth getting is James Blish's _Black Easter_ and its sequel _The Day After Judgement_ (there's an omnibus edition). The premise is basically the Biblical Armageddon, but it neither starts nor ends the way Heaven, Hell or the humans unintentionally involved in starting it were expecting; weird but fun and I found it very compelling, especially in its portrayal of demons and black magic.


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## Dînadan (Mar 7, 2009)

Not eacxtly sci-fi persay, but have you tried Orwell's Nineteen-Eighty-Four? I'd say that that captures the setting of the Imperium to a degree (or should that be the Imperium captures the setting of 1984 and blows it out of proportion considering 1984 was published decades before 40k was even contemplated? )


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