# BOTWD vs Demons, Is it an auto win?



## Partybear (Dec 16, 2010)

Just fought against White lions a with mage in the unit equiped with the BOTWD, I was playing demons....... 
I couldn't do anything, my opponent had enough of a brain to no get baited so I lost hard. Didn't really see the point in playing the game tbh. 
Is there anything as a demon player i can do? because i have no idea just feels really annoying that its more or less an auto win. :nono:


----------



## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Partybear said:


> Just fought against White lions a with mage in the unit equiped with the BOTWD, I was playing demons.......
> I couldn't do anything, my opponent had enough of a brain to no get baited so I lost hard. Didn't really see the point in playing the game tbh.
> Is there anything as a demon player i can do? because i have no idea just feels really annoying that its more or less an auto win. :nono:


Vs. a smart High Elf opponent who knows how to win the chaff war, not a chance in hell outside of:
1. Cacobombing him turn 1
2. Nuking him with 2-3+ castings of Final Trans (and somehow not exploding spectacularly from 2-3 likely miscasts!)

Vs. a dumb*** who forgets that HE's should be able to remove all of our possible chaff options within a couple of turns, it's doable with the likes of solo Beasts & Furies to chaff them up.

If you run a Lv4 Kipper, then HE's are little threat provided you can get the area-effect Cacophonic Choir off, as it so completely screws over their play style.
But that's assuming you even like/want to run Slaanesh in the first place. If you enjoy say Khorne or Nurgle, you're simply going to be playing for the draw...
Now at least as Nurgle you can fight 'uber cheese with 'uber cheese - just take the Portalglyph on your GUO and hide him inside his own magic item, (thereby auto-denying 600 odd VP's), hide your main Plaguebrick out of sight in the back corner, and let the HE player enjoy nothing but Beasts/Furies/Khannons/Drones all game.


The WorldCrtuch MatWard Banner overall is about the dumbest thing the game currently, though our own Portalglyph probably tops it if you're being a dick and abusing the crap out of it...

Now imagine facing roughly the following;
Alarielle the Everb**** rolling 3 Light + 1 High
Loremaster

BSB w/Banner of Averlorn
2x Lv1's w/Light (1 w/Dispel Scroll, 1 w/Ring of Fury)

2x 5 Reavers w/bows + muso
6 Silverhelms w/champ + muso
2x 16 Archers w/banner + muso

20 Caucasian Lions w/BotWD
24 Phoenix Guard w/full command

10 Sisters
4 Bolters

Utterly pointless...
Everything sits in range of the bubble effect Light spells bar the Reavers/Silvers/Sisters.
The squishy stuff is protected by the frontline anvils that never budge thanks to 'uber ward saves, meaning outside of ambushing Hounds, you're not avoid those charge arcs.
S7 Banishment, plus a boatload of potential MM's & Direct Damage is coming your way, and thanks to our lack of a Dispel Scroll, the HE player doesn't even need to 6 dice stuff - just basic spam will force stuff through.
When it comes to combat, enjoy fighting WS10/I10, ASF, -1 to-hit elven elites...


It's gotten to the point that if a HE player asks me for a game, I ask if they're planning on using Alarielle and/or BotWD.
If they say yes, I find a different opponent.


----------



## Partybear (Dec 16, 2010)

experiment 626 said:


> 1. Cacobombing him turn 1


Thanks for the reply, what does cacoboming mean? never heard that before?  
I run mainly tzneetch and khorne so final transmutation was my only answer My only other thought is he has chaff units surrounding it I suppose I could try and nuke one of those forcing a ld 8 or 9 test and pray for a miracle! :victory:


----------



## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Partybear said:


> Thanks for the reply, what does cacoboming mean? never heard that before?
> I run mainly tzneetch and khorne so final transmutation was my only answer My only other thought is he has chaff units surrounding it I suppose I could try and nuke one of those forcing a ld 8 or 9 test and pray for a miracle! :victory:


 The 'Cacobomb' refers to running a Lv4 Keeper of Secrets who aims to roll the spell Cacophonic Choir, then on your 1st turn, marches 20" strait at the center of the enemy army and 6-dices the 12" area-effect version of the spell.
If it goes off successfully, all enemy units in range take 2D6 auto-hits that wound on a strait 4+ and ignore armour saves. The kicker is that any unit which suffers at least a single casualty also gains the 'Always Strikes Last' rule and most importantly, reduces their movement to 'Random Movement D6."'

Basically, if you can get it to go off 1st turn, you typically end up nuking any chaff units in range, plus put the hurt on ranked units, while effectively auto-winning the movement phase for the rest of the game!
As added insult to injury, run a unit of 3-4 Fiends in front of your Keeper to act as a missile screen/cannonball catchers, and with the Slaanesh Lore attribute, you'll likely double if not even potentially triple the unit size from a single area-effect casting! (every model killed allows you to roll a dice - on a 6, you get to add a Fiend to your existing unit!)

Note that this is a "tactic" you really don't want to pull vs. opponents if you enjoy having friends!
However, it's our best counter to BotWD shenanigans, so if the HE's are going to rub that steaming turd in our faces, then it's only fair we get to fight fire with fire of our own!



As for dealing with it as Tzeentch/Khorne...

Treason of Tzeentch is your friend.
Cast it on the Banner unit, then aim to break/destroy a unit within panic range. Now those filthy White Lions are testing on Ld8 and lose out on any BSB re-rolls.

Not a sure thing, but coupled alongside Final Trans, it's about the best possible solution we've got, as we can't rely on chaffing the thing. (well, except against bad players)


----------

