# Was the Emperor always so badass?



## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

was the emperor always so bad ass or did he change himself like he changed space marines? i think he would kind of stick out in the human population. so how did he got so powerful?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

The Emperor's origins are unknown. Although there are many varied theories ranging from the background given in the _The Lost and the Damned_ (Shaman Theory), to fan made theories, like him being an Ascended Old One. 

He was/is the most powerful Psyker in the galaxy, he was easily able to change or morph his appearance on a whim, thus being able to 'fit in' if he really was naturally a golden giant. Honestly though I find it more likely that he was actually 'normal' sized and had a generally 'normal' appearance, but the Golden Giant that we know him as during the Crusade/Heresy was either merely a projection of his immense power or he genetically altered himself, in a way similar as to when normal humans become Astartes.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

Kendares said:


> was the emperor always so bad ass


Actually, before he became a near-dead corpse strapped to a giant mechanical throne, he was even _more_ badass. :biggrin:


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## Boganius Maximal (Oct 31, 2009)

In the "Tales of Heresy" short story "The Last Church on Terra" a robed man turned up in a church up in the mountains that had survived the Emps purges to date and had a discussion about religion and it was stated that the priest noticed that when the robed man sat down on a chair it seemed that the chair was straining under a greater weight than that of the man. I believe that he was the golden giant he is portrayed to be rather than a physically normal man that used his psychic powers to increase his size. He was probably "perfect" in every way(physically, psychically, etc) and as K3k3000 says, even more badass than ha is in the Golden Throne


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## Ardias26 (Sep 26, 2008)

He's kinda like North Koreas kim il sung in that he single handedly grew all his countries crops, invented every modern convienience etc etc 

Most of it is probably meant to be depicted as imperial propaganda in the fluff, though he his supposed to be a powerful psyker in the storyline, and also he probably further enhanced himself with some tech.

The whole being 50 millenia old thing should rly be taken with a pinch of salt


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

the mechinicus hh book mentions that has also lived through several different human eras and was only in his true form at the beggining of the unification wars and onwards to the great crusade.

I just cant wait to the day he is reborn both in the gaming world and fluff/novel world!!! mind you it will most likely be in the 41st millenium real time the way GW works


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## Ryuzaki (Nov 1, 2009)

nate187 said:


> I just cant wait to the day he is reborn both in the gaming world and fluff/novel world!!!


*Groan*, don't you think spezz murhreens are talked up enough without giving them the equivalent of God to play with? Just sayin'...
Hatred of loyalist marines aside, that would be cool.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Boganius Maximal said:


> In the "Tales of Heresy" short story "The Last Church on Terra" a robed man turned up in a church up in the mountains that had survived the Emps purges to date and had a discussion about religion and it was stated that the priest noticed that when the robed man sat down on a chair it seemed that the chair was straining under a greater weight than that of the man. I believe that he was the golden giant he is portrayed to be rather than a physically normal man that used his psychic powers to increase his size. He was probably "perfect" in every way(physically, psychically, etc) and as K3k3000 says, even more badass than ha is in the Golden Throne


Good spot.

That does suggest that he either was perfect to begin with or he genetically altered himself to the point of perfection. I mean taking the genetic possibilites the chances of a human becoming perfect, a huge golden giant from two normal parents is next to impossible which suggests he made himself perfect by genetic alterations.

However then we are talking about a fantasy universe where space marines shoot alien and mankind controls the galaxy so our logical conclusions mean very little

I personally believe that he was a exceedingly powerful psyker and that he dabbled in genetic threrapy mutating himself to perfection. 

That plus the psychic aura he projected must have been overwhelming to any human and made him a god in there eyes


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Boganius Maximal said:


> ...when the robed man sat down on a chair it seemed that the chair was straining under a greater weight than that of the man....


Certainly the story supports the Emperor being able to change his visual appearance; however I read that passage as the chair bending under the hidden weight of Custodes armour, not the Emperor being much heavier than a normal man.

That said it seems very unlikely the Emperor did not use any of what would become geneseed augmentations.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

The Emperor's origins are most likely the biggest mystery in 40k fluff. He didn't appear before humanity until the end of the age of strife. If what they say about him rising from self-sacrificed shamans is true, then he is here, right now, amongst us! If the shaman theory is correct then that means he has seen the development of mankind for centuries. 

I could imagine him meeting Jesus, conversing with Charlemagne, or even having tea with Abraham Lincoln. Somebody who would live long enough to do these things, be inspired by people like this, witness mankinds achievements and follies must be brimming with knowledge and wisdom. I believe somebody like that is, and always will be, badass IMO.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

Ryuzaki said:


> *Groan*, don't you think spezz murhreens are talked up enough without giving them the equivalent of God to play with? Just sayin'...
> Hatred of loyalist marines aside, that would be cool.


They don't have much of a choice, methinks. The golden throne's failing, and if the emperor dies humanity goes with it. Their options are to either keep him alive until everyone loses interest in 40K, kill him off and introduce new plot device to keep chaos from pouring into the universe, have humanity go extinct, or have him reincarnated.

There are stories of the emperor being the collective reincarnation of all of humanity's "shaman," presumably their early psykers. This is the theory I like the most, but people here have told me that, officially, the origin of the Emperor is simply unknown.


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

Ryuzaki said:


> *Groan*, don't you think spezz murhreens are talked up enough without giving them the equivalent of God to play with? Just sayin'...
> Hatred of loyalist marines aside, that would be cool.


He would have to cost a rediculous amount to play or a manifestation maybe? like the night bringer and deciever (spelling) would that make ya happy :biggrin:


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## Shacklock (Dec 15, 2009)

The shaman theory is likely true as its an official fluff theory innit. But likely its more sinister and 40kish in reality, probably some quasi-illuminati (The real ones not the 40k faction) Atlantis thing. *Shrug* 
In the first Horus Heresy book Horus talks to Loken about some conversation he had with the Emperor about bows and horse-mounted warriors etc. etc. who were a major presence around the time the Emperor was young. Was some reference to some Steppe-people/Mongolians I'd immagine which pretty much confirms or makes the shaman theory highly likely.


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## dtq (Feb 19, 2009)

Shacklock said:


> The shaman theory is likely true as its an official fluff theory innit. But likely its more sinister and 40kish in reality, probably some quasi-illuminati (The real ones not the 40k faction) Atlantis thing. *Shrug*
> In the first Horus Heresy book Horus talks to Loken about some conversation he had with the Emperor about bows and horse-mounted warriors etc. etc. who were a major presence around the time the Emperor was young. Was some reference to some Steppe-people/Mongolians I'd immagine which pretty much confirms or makes the shaman theory highly likely.


The HH series in mechanicum and tales of heresey suggests that the Emperor was a knight in shining golden armour in a pre technological era of earths history (although apparantly post greco roman era). It was at that time he fought and subdued a C'tan. So you would have to guess he was pretty bad ass at that point already... The same story is later referred to in Tales of Heresy.

Its also noted that the astartes \ primarch DNA modifications come in part from the emperors own DNA, could the Shamans have done something in the warp to affect the DNA of the unborn child whos body they were gathering in...

I would guess the Emperor was born into his physical shell with the full weight of thousands of life times worth of experience already present right from the start, and so would have been "badass" from birth, as to how much a babys body (modified or otherwise) would have held him back is definetely debateable.

To my mind the Shaman theory is still very much in keeping with the current HH books, and thus from the time of his creation onwards the Emperor would have been "badass".


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I would say he has allways been the golden giant, but he used his psychic powers to obscure his real identity (and his bulk) throughout the ages. No need for augmentation for the emp. The story of him subduing the dragon was specificaly crafted to evoke the story of st george. Another of his possible identities or appearances through the ages.


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## Shacklock (Dec 15, 2009)

Interesting thought that, the Emperor could infact be many of the figures that shaped history.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

Shacklock said:


> Interesting thought that, the Emperor could infact be many of the figures that shaped history.


Ill take credit for that one! :biggrin:


But could you imagine the Emperor being responsible for shaping and directing history in his his favor? When I mentioned those three historical figures I couldn't help but notice the similarities they had to the Emperor. 

Jesus - A very prominent religious leader 

Charlemagne - A man who united an empire (which ironically fell apart as well) 

Abraham Lincoln - A brilliant politician who reunited a divided nation. 

Now, could you imagine the Emperor influencing these people OR *could* have been all of the above?


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Treewizard648 said:


> Now, could you imagine the Emperor influencing these people OR *could* have been all of the above?


I do not think the Emperor would have been anyone extremely famous; assuming he as brilliant as the propaganda suggests - as opposed to just very strong with a brilliant viceroy - he would be aware that famous people have someone around then nearly all the time, so even a superb psyker and politician would be at big enough risk of slipping out of disguise to pose a real threat to the plan.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Treewizard648 said:


> Ill take credit for that one! :biggrin:
> 
> 
> But could you imagine the Emperor being responsible for shaping and directing history in his his favor? When I mentioned those three historical figures I couldn't help but notice the similarities they had to the Emperor.
> ...


I dont believe you should take credit for that! I believe its stated in some of the Old fluff (possibly _Realm of Chaos_ or _RT_, not 100% sure where though) that the Emperor has taken on the role of important figures throughout history: kings, advisors, cult leaders etc. in order to guide humanity.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

Treewizard648 said:


> Jesus - A very prominent religious leader


If existing sources are to be believed, Jesus was an incredibly progressive person who believed faith and peace should come before everything else, and that humanity really ought to just be nice to each other. The Emperor of Mankind is, to my understanding, extremely xenophobic, harsh, and cruel. These qualities are arguably necessary for a leader in the 40K universe, but I think it's pretty clear that the Emperor=/=Jesus. 

'Sides, we all know what Space Jesus looks like. http://files.myopera.com/Back Up Babblings/albums/302309/chaos.jpg


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## Shacklock (Dec 15, 2009)

Or maybe he was just some big Free Mason directing the scenes from the shadows, which does seem more fitting for the Emperor.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

The Emperor is Jesus Christ ressurected with a bad attitude. My 2 cents


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## Ender7j (Jan 12, 2010)

I was always under the impression that the Emperor fought his wars in order to rediscover his 'Primarch' children and to cement a unified humanity amongst the stars. I never really read anything that portrayed the Emperor as cruel, xenophobic or despotic. I can't remember where I read it, but I thought that the Emperor shunned worship of him and strived to teach his people the merits of the scientific method. I really don't think it would be a good day for humanity if the Emperor was reborn as the Imperium is not what he had originally intended (according to my interpretation of the stuff I have read). I figure there would be another purge and reunification, and not all the heroes of Man would rejoice in the end.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

I bet he's some tiny little sanctioned-psyker like body, but just strong enough with his powers to look huge and strong to everyone who sees him.

No wonder Horus turned against him, he was a tiny little baby, and no wonder he left the Great Crusade, he was tired of using his powers to seem big and wanted to be normal size for a while back at Terra.
:biggrin:


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## Tau22 (Apr 27, 2009)

What Ender said. Empy even got mad at the Word Bearers, who turned worlds to his worship. He was definitely not a religious kinda' guy.


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

In the words of Highlander (the movie).. "We have walked amongst you since the dawn of time".
I would imagine the Emperor walking the Earth, listening, guiding, helping, until he got noticed and then moved on. He was around when great empires rose and fell, he witnessed the wars that shaped Humanity. He watched and waited. Was he a lowly Legionnaire in one of the Roman Armies or a famous general? Did he sit in the trenches at Petersburg or Ypres or was he the other side of the world doing something else. Where was he during WW2? Where is he today?
It's a facinating subject


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Don't want to burst peoples bubble but the emperor is not a nice guy! The imperium is run like a totalitarian state similar to Nazi germany or Communist Stalins Russia. He expends people like they were mere pawns. According to the HH the emperor has tried to conquer/ unite the world before, if he has, I don't think he would have been a "good" guy.

And i always thought that the emperor looked like a regular guy, which i how he fitted in, hes even supposidly had countless children...


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Barnster said:


> ...The imperium is run like a totalitarian state similar to Nazi germany or Communist Stalins Russia. He expends people like they were mere pawns....


The question whether the Emperor's actions and current Imperial practice stem from the same philosophy is at the core of this thread.

From the tales of when the Emperor was walking around he appear to have been in favour of a secular scientific state. The totalitarian religious state came into being after he was confined to the Golden Throne, so I cannot see evidcne it is what he would do if he was still awake.

Even the expenditure of people to keep him alive is dome by the bureaucracy and not at his request.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

The emperor created the space marines primarily to reunite human words under his rule. Anyone who refused to bow to his will he set the marines on them. He based all his imperialism on the simple premise of "I'm right, their wrong" In fact many human colonies were happy and prosperous before the emperor came along and were subsequently ruined by the crusades. Any world which showed the slightest bits of anti emperor ideas were punished, potentially killed and new colonists put in place. 

I agree that it is unlikly that the religous state would exist, but i do think that the imperium was and always will be a totalitarian police state with the emperor its head of state/ dictator.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Barnster said:


> The emperor created the space marines primarily to reunite human words under his rule. Anyone who refused to bow to his will he set the marines on them. He based all his imperialism on the simple premise of "I'm right, their wrong" In fact many human colonies were happy and prosperous before the emperor came along and were subsequently ruined by the crusades. Any world which showed the slightest bits of anti emperor ideas were punished, potentially killed and new colonists put in place.
> 
> I agree that it is unlikly that the religous state would exist, but i do think that the imperium was and always will be a totalitarian police state with the emperor its head of state/ dictator.


Very true, but is was all necessary for the survival of the Human Race. If you believe that the End justifies the Means, then the Emperor was a fantastic guy.


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## naglfar (Aug 19, 2012)

Here's my 2 cents worth on the Emperor's physicality - 

The Emperor is described as neither large nor small, young nor old in his description in Thousand Sons at the Council of Nikkea, with a face that no one can quite see or remember. Effectively he is a massive light of psychic energy that effects the minds of anyone who beholds him. Like Magnus, his physical size seems to increase and decrease depending on how much psychic energy he is putting out.

That said, there are 5 schools of psychic power in the 40k universe, we can pretty safely assume that the Emperor is a master at all 5 since we know that Magnus was and he wasn't as great a psyker as the Emperor. One of those schools of power is biomancy, using psychic power to effect the physical body. So it is likely the Emperor can use his massive psychic power to completely alter his physical form.

My personal opinion is that down through history he had a near enough human body, for instance when he fought the Void Dragon as 'St George', but when he emerged to unify mankind after the age of strife, he likely rebuilt his body as something akin to the primarchs since his purpose for the next few centuries would be war. Then he used his own altered DNA as the basis for the primarchs.


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Very true, but is was all necessary for the survival of the Human Race. If you believe that the End justifies the Means, then the Emperor was a fantastic guy.


Slightly off beat question, but can we assume this is also the reason why the Emperor tries to make a secular society. If no one believes in the warp, then no one will dabble and hence the greatest threat to humanity is essentially nullified?


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## Mellow_ (Aug 5, 2012)

I think the shaman souls prepared the unborn baby so that it had the perfect DNA to hold their combined psychic powers without detrimental effect. 

Whether his powers and increased because he found an Akashic reader early during his life isn't known. I do think he found one though. 

I don't think he necessarily needed to be the historical figures throughout he ages but for someone that can make a whole legion kneel with a single thought its not outside the realms of possibility that he simple planted the thoughts in people's minds (for things like scientific discovery)


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

In regards to the tyrannical nature of the Emperor. I believe it was stated a number of times throughout the Horus Heresy that the Emperor saw the razor thin path Humanity must follow, least it fall to the same sins as the Eldar and left to rot for millenia before extinction. 

In his mind he likely saw the big picture, rather than the pathetic mewling of but one world in a galaxy of billions. To allow pockets of Humanity to remain free would be to risk Warp-taint even further. To permit anti-Imperial rhetoric to exist you will inevitably get anti-Imperial movements which in turn will cause thorns in your side later. Besides, the Imperium did not even begin its path to darkness and insanity until Horus rebelled. Prior to the Horus Heresy, free-thought was in fact permitted in the Imperium including criticism of the Emperor's actions and the Imperium at large.

The oppression only began after the Heresy started when suspicion was a watch-word. As for the crushing of independant cultures and peoples -- obviously they would not have endured, would they? If they could not endure the Imperium then they would likely have no endured Chaos. Now, this isn't my thoughts -- but what I feel the Emperor probably thought. We of coarse have exemptions to this assumption in the form of the Interex and a dozen other cultures who avoided Chaos. But in the Emperor's mind he was taking a big, big gamble. He didn't want to take chances.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

A perspective on the Emperor's actions prior to and through the Great Crusade are also in light of a being who had lived through all the various ages of human civilization and development. His tyrannical nature and rejection of religion were drawn from the prior 40 millennia's experience with his species... he saw the development of mono-theism as a way to unify humanity, so he was sacrificed as Jesus, which turned into the Holy Roman Empire and the Byzantines... or he showed the transcendent man by becoming the Buddha, that turned into a religion and became a tool of the state. With so much blank space during the Golden Age leading to the Iron Men, a being like the Emperor was probably sitting back thinking, "damn, another omlett ruined, I better start with a few new eggs."

The Emperor's dictate of xenocide wouldn't seem that much to him when his knowlege of galactic history showed him that races failing to do exactly that quickly became extinct themselves.

His biggest gamble was putting himself in the drivers seat, which put that bullseye directly on his own chest, so he couldn't just sit back and try to direct things from the shadows any more. His one big gamble paid off by reuniting humanity, but utterly failed by shackling him to a role that so stricly defined him.


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## randian (Feb 26, 2009)

The Emperor's gene-tech likely originates in the Dark Age of Technology, he needn't have invented it himself. He could have used it on himself, for improvements that don't require the continuous expenditure of psychic energy. There's just nobody left to dispute the implication that the Emperor invented it.


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