# Mixing Geneseed



## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

This is a topic that has me scratching my head. From reading around various fora, and looking at DIY IA guides, I see that mixing geneseed is considered a major no-no. The only way around this is, from what I can gather, is if the Chapter is from the 'Dark' or 'Cursed' foundings.
However, from my reading (which I am not going to claim is totally exhaustive by any means) I can't really find anything to justify this canon-wise, if I can use such a loose phrase. A couple of examples:
1. In the IA: Renegade Sons, there is a paragraph (admittedly short and lacking in detail) that states that many Chapters have geneseeds that are a mix of two or more of the loyalist Legions; it then says that nobody is sure if this causes trouble, is a cause for concern or if it is the most important factor in judging wether a Chapter will go rogue.
2. A recent discovery of mine, reading a thread on a BL forum I think, was that the Reclaimers have a mix of DA and UM geneseed. Certainly the =I= is watching them as they go about trying to find Chaos artefacts (retconned apparently from being destroyed for this very reason), but that is not, seemingly, connected to their origins.
So my question is, is the mixing of geneseed definitely outed as being bad in some fluff I haven't read, or is it just a community decision? 
Just to be open about why I ask; my Chapter's IA works much better if I can use a mix of geneseed. This isn't to give them superpowers or raise them above other Astartes, but an experiment on the behalf of the High Lords to try to lessen the hold of the Primarchs and their legacy on the new Chapter, making sure that their loyalty is to the Emperor and Humanity, not his sons. Any opinions? I would really appreciate finding out if/why I am wrong in what I want to do.

GFP

ps. I know that it is my IA and so I can do what I want, but I would like to be able to post this up without being pulled up on this one point all the time. Thanks again!


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## Fire Lord (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm not sure about the doings of the foundings. However, the cursed founding is pretty much a go to when wanting a unique look or feel. My marines are cursed founding marines turned chaos. I could claim a mix up of blood angel and space wolf gene seed and presto, marines with a primal look and a lust for blood. Nothing different on the table, but the fluff could be they are vampiric, regenerating extreme injuries and never dying!k:


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

I made a Loyalist faction back in 4th edition, which I still play with the new codex of course, that I call the Wyld Hunt.
They were originally surviving remnants of the Wolf Brothers, who took some White Scars gene-seed and mixed it with their own, which for the most part alleviates the Wulfen Curse... though as can be seen from a couple of my models, it does still spring up from time to time.
I don't know if that's really acceptable by canon, but it seems a couple of established Chapters have done it.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Thats sort of my point. In the fluff the I have seen, I have never seen the assertion that mixing geneseed is inherently bad; it only ever suggests (re the Renegase Sons IA) that it may be an issue, but nobody knows. 
I am quite willing to conceed the point if there is fluff to support this (maybe one of the older books such as Codex:Imperialis mentions it, and I don't have access to it), but if it is just a consensus with no basis in the canon, then I'm wondering why there seems to be such resistance to it. At least, when I wrote up my 1st draft IA, one of the biggest objections to it, if not the biggest, was the use of mixed geneseed. I'm just wondering where the objection comes from?

GFP


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Thats sort of my point. In the fluff the I have seen, I have never seen the assertion that mixing geneseed is inherently bad; it only ever suggests (re the Renegase Sons IA) that it may be an issue, but nobody knows.
> I am quite willing to conceed the point if there is fluff to support this (maybe one of the older books such as Codex:Imperialis mentions it, and I don't have access to it), but if it is just a consensus with no basis in the canon, then I'm wondering why there seems to be such resistance to it. At least, when I wrote up my 1st draft IA, one of the biggest objections to it, if not the biggest, was the use of mixed geneseed. I'm just wondering where the objection comes from?
> 
> GFP



The Imperials are probably rather purist about such things.
Besides, any gene-seed you take from another Chapter is gene-seed that Chapter can't use to replenish its own numbers.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

But I'm talking about the attitudes of us, the 40k community to the idea.
In universe I think that, whilst the original Legion Chapters (ie UMs, Iron Hands, Fists etc) wouldn't want their genetic legacy to be tampered with, I can see the High Lords and AdMech doing, basically what they want to do to get what is best for them and Humanity.
But as I said, is there an origin for the dislike of mixed geneseed Chapters; I mean quite apart from people saying, "This is my Chapter. They are a mix of UMs, Wolves and Iron Hands; my rules have them as Iron Disciplined, ferocious, bionic men who have furious assault, 8 attacks on the charge, FNP and T9 and Fearless."?

GFP


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Not so much, really; you can only take the traits as allowed in your codex.
In 4th edition, with Traits, my Chapter was more itself; it had Furious Charge and True Grit, along with the weaknesses to reflect my Chapter's fluff.
Now that eveerything is vanilla, the mixed gene-seed is cosmetic, with no real effect.
Unless they come out with the Space Wolf codex at some point...
I might use that one instead of the regular one, since my Chapter was once known as the Wolf Brothers...


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I think I may have given the wrong impression with that example. I'm not talking about using traits or anything from the old C:SM. That was an example were someone would write their own codex and use that fluff to justify insanely hard Marines for too little points.
To try and make myself a bit clearer (I don't seem to have made such a good job of it so far!), this is just a background question, not a gameplay reason. When you write up your Chapter's fluff, if you say they have a mixed geneseed it is seen as a bad fluff-choice. Why is this?

GFP


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## thelastonestanding (Mar 21, 2009)

I'd think it would be something akin to making the geneseed of a chapter unpure and disrespectful to their respective Primarchs (of the Legion they were founded from)
Atleast something along the lines of that


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Vrykolas2k said:


> I made a Loyalist faction back in 4th edition, which I still play with the new codex of course, that I call the *Wyld Hunt*.


I see what you did there :taunt:

On subject, Cpt. Galus has "mixed his geneseed" with the Sisters of Battle quite a few times. The result was every successor chapter to the Dark Angels.


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## Epic Fail (Jun 23, 2008)

Vrykolas2k said:


> The Imperials are probably rather purist about such things.
> Besides, any gene-seed you take from another Chapter is gene-seed that Chapter can't use to replenish its own numbers.


I thought the mechanicus, on order from the high lords of terra could whip up a batch of geneseed to create new chapters. there's a new one talked about in the new codex: SM that implies these origins. 

If you're willing to take that kind of origin you've got a perfectly legit reason to have a custom gene-seed.


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## Cpt. Loken (Sep 7, 2008)

what about the Blood Ravens man? no one thinks about them any more


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

in one of the Iron warrior books the main character has a mix of Iron Warrior and Imperial Fist geneseed.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

And yet, if you post a Chapter description on many boards and you have mixed geneseed, you will get howled down and told that the idea doesn't work because geneseed is never mixed, at least for normal Chapters.
It seems more and more, to me, that somehow this prohibition on mixing is just a community decision with, seemingly, no fluff justification. I would be interested to find out where it comes from. Anybody know?

GFP


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

I think the main reason they dont mix is pride. In the Iron Warrior book Honus who has the mixed geneseed is also seen as lesser.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

he is looked at as lesser but it is also a change in time. Just like the Black Legion they are concerned more about the number growth in their legion than the other legions. Thats why most legions of chaos are not successful.
Mixing genes is very difficult, I am majoring in biology and based on my knowledge, if you mix traits within genetic streams you have to becareful about which alleles are in each gene. No one can know because they are so many of them and there almost no way possible which ones are compatible with one another. There is really almost no such thing as a "bad" gene however, just like certain different compounds that seem harmless, if mixed together they could cause a chemical reaction that could create a blast, so to humans perhaps a genetic disorder.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

So has the 'prohibition' (for want of reasonable, non-hyperbolic word) on mixed-geneseed, non-renegade/corrupted Chapters come from some bastardised knowledge of genetics? Personally, I can't see it, but we're all guilty of dragging real-life into 40k at times!
From the responses I've got here, it doesn't appear that the bad rep. of mixed geneseed is warranted. Do you agree? Or is there a deeper/older reason that I have missed?

GFP


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

No there is no "magical" explanation. Though the warhammer world is purley fantasy it does try to establish a posibility through certain "truths" and "messages" that are conveyed.


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## lomaxxdurang (Jun 24, 2008)

I think a lot of the chapters have a mixed gene-seed. Simply because there is so much ultramarine seed out there. Most chapters that are created are probably created from mixed seed anyhow and not told specifically who their primarch was.
LMD


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## Cpt. Loken (Sep 7, 2008)

Ok I'm looking at White Dwarf No.248 and on page number 25. it says that there r 2 PROGENOID glands (gene-seed) into the marine . if one was from one chapter and the other from another which makes a mixed gene-seed. i dont think that would hurt a chapters pride or make a lesser marine.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

The progenoids are 'storage devices' for the actual geneseed, though. As far as I can recall, the ipmplants all give off organic 'stuff' that, over the course of 15-20 years collects in the progenoid gland so that, when it is removed, the genetic information that can help grow a new set of implants for a new body.
So no-one minds much then. If people tell me I'm wrong for having a mixed-geneseed Chapter I can, with a clear fluff-conciense, tell them to be quiet becuase they have no fluff-legs to stand on if they fluff-disagree with it? Fluff. 
Thanks for you opinons, Heretics. If anyone has any flashes of kowledge be sure to let me know!

GFP


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