# It's the worst unit . . . in the Codex.



## Zer0 (Jan 13, 2009)

That's supposed to sound like that "The most interesing person in the world" beer commercials . . . 

Anyway, there was a topic that got largely derailed due to some petty arguing, but it got me thinking: I like to think that GW doesn't intentionally put useless units in their codices, just ones that have very specific roles that rarely come up. I think it'd be fun if we take a Codex, nominate a unit as the worst, explain why, try to figure out how best to use it if you absolutely had to take it and then think of ways to improve the unit. I'll take the first go:

Codex: Orks

Unit: Flash Gitz

Reason: Expensive. Shooty unit with poor BS, lower strength and range than lootas, random AP makes them unreliable as a MEQ or TEQ equivalent. Other choices in Codex outclass them for lower cost.

Best use: Since Lootas are the best choice for long-range fire and can't assault after shooting, make the most of their weapons being assault and keep them close to your front-line units. Have them either soften-up targets for other units to assault or shoot and charge already damaged units. Since each model is expensive, especially with upgrades, add a Painboy to increase survivability.

Improvements: Since they're not as shooty as Lootas, not as fighty as Nobz and not as numerous as Shoota Boys, focus them as an anti-heavy infantry unit. Keep the Snazzguns, but add some kombi-options to increase their effectiveness in assault and make better use of wound allocation. Snazz-burna, Snazz-rokkit launchas, of course, but how about a Snazz-'uge choppa that you can either shoot with or use in the assault as a 'Uge Choppa, like how burna boys can either be a burna or a power weapon.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Zer0 said:


> Anyway, there was a topic that got largely derailed due to some petty arguing, but it got me thinking: I like to think that GW doesn't intentionally put useless units in their codices, just ones that have very specific roles that rarely come up. I think it'd be fun if we take a Codex, nominate a unit as the worst, explain why, try to figure out how best to use it if you absolutely had to take it and then think of ways to improve the unit. I'll take the first go:


Oh, units aren't supposed to be bad, they just end up that way through bad playtesting and meta. In Games Workshop HQ, where people run their White Scars Outflanking armies and foot Space Marines and pure Fire Caste armies, Flash Gitz and Gift of Chaos and Vespid are good. In the real world of Rhinos and MSU, they aren't very good at all.

But hey, may as well have a crack at it myself:

*Chaos:*
*The Useless Spawn*
Reason: Expensive, no armour, no other saves, Rage, Slow and Purposeful, no useful special rules.
Uses: Tying up S3 ranged units, tarpitting Guardsmen blobs, I guess. Contesting objectives with them after a Gift of Chaos cast.
Improvements: Make them 25pts each, and give them Feel No Pain and the option for Marks at 10pts each. Oh, and an upgrade for stablising the number of attacks they get would be good.

Midnight


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Codex: Space Wolves

Unit: Blood Claws

Reason: Outclassed and overpriced. Assault unit with lower than average BS and WS for marines, at WS and BS3. They gain a +2 attack bonus from assaulting, but when they get hit back they go down easier. The require a wolf guard to allow them to shoot close range weapons and do not come with a bolter. They cost the same as a Grey Hunter, but lack the versatility of Grey Hunters, while also not having access to the wolf standard. 

Best use: 14 of them with a flamer and a power fist, in a land raider crusader with a wolf priest and a wolf guard with power fist and combi-flamer. used mainly for swamping enemy units, very good at taking down hordes of low save enemies like orks and small elite units like terminators through sheer volume of attacks. 

Improvements: Increase their weapon skill by one and give them furious charge, that way the versatility of Grey hunters is evenly weighed against the hitting power of blood claws. also give greater access to power fists and power weapons, one per five models, as in the old codex SW, to make them a good and hard hitting assault unit.


----------



## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Dark Angels: Ezekiel

Reason: No invulnerable save, shitty psychic powers, and paying through the nose for no visible benefit.
Uses: Ld10 unlimited psychic hood to counter psychic powers. Also Mind Worm can be useful at taking down low LD biggies like Carnifexes.
Improvements: Better psychic powers, or access to C:SM ones. Option to use multiple psychic powers a turn OR reduced points. Possibly an invulnerable save too?


----------



## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

tyranidsyrovore; 

Reason: has to get too close to the enemy to do anything, takes up valuable elite choices that have much better options

uses, flaming out GeQs from bastions etc, um.....

improvements: better save, higher S weapon?


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

See, I think the Pyrovore could be improved by giving it Space Marine combat stats, albeit with two attacks, and it can fire it's gun like a Hellhound can - place the template within 6" of the Pyrovore and turn it to the optimum position.

Midnight


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Codex: CSM

Unit: Thousand Sons

Reason: Overpriced, benefit of use almost null with the abundance of cover saves. No access to special weapons/powerfists.

Best use: 5-8+sorcerer with doombolt/melta bombs in a rhino. Abuse relentless, shred mEQ. Unit has the ability to charge after rapid firing. Doesn't rely on being in cover to survive. Place objectives out in the open, or lash units out of cover to get the best use of ap3.

Improvements: Drop the cost of the sorcerer significantly. Drop the overall cost of the unit itself. Give access to better, or even unique psychic powers.

I don't always shoot ap3, but when I do.......you still get a 4+ save.

Stay medicore my friends.


----------



## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Codex: chaos
Unit: possessed

Reason: Costly and unpredictable. Possessed are conceptually cool, but suffer from random abilities that aren't determined until gametime. In fact the chaos player won't know what their special power is until After deployment! Beyond that their icons like the rest of the codex are exorbitantly expensive.

Best Use: (only use) close combat. Can't have or be purchased guns. Get them stuck in somewhere as fast as possible. They have invulnerable saves, are fearless, have 2 attacks, and a strength of 5 - if you roll well on their ability table and get fleet, rending, or power weapons then they might do some damage. Load them into a rhino and use them to tie the enemy up.

Improvement: reduce their base cost by a few points, reduce the icon cost, and make their powers purchasable - like they used to be in the last codex. Perhaps make two table of abilities, players may purchase from major mutations (power weapons, wings, unit psychics, feel no pain, etc.) or minor mutations (scouts, short range missile weapons I.e. bolt pistols, fleet, grenade equivalents, or maybe a stat swap +1T for -1i). 

Or if all that is too radical, at least make the possessed ability roll happen Before deployment. Their uncertain ability ensure that rolling after set-up makes them far less tactically questionable.


----------



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

This is just my personal opinion, but with the three armies I actually play I have never found a sufficient reason to ever take any of the following.

CSM
-Chaos spawn

Necrons
-Destroyers or Praetorians (This is a hard call because all necron units have a place....just not in my armies).

CD
-Masque or Harald of slaanesh.


----------



## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

Zer0 said:


> Improvements: Since they're not as shooty as Lootas, not as fighty as Nobz and not as numerous as Shoota Boys, focus them as an anti-heavy infantry unit. Keep the Snazzguns, but add some kombi-options to increase their effectiveness in assault and make better use of wound allocation. Snazz-burna, Snazz-rokkit launchas, of course, but how about a Snazz-'uge choppa that you can either shoot with or use in the assault as a 'Uge Choppa, like how burna boys can either be a burna or a power weapon.


I would say an easier improvement would be to simply increase their BS to 3, or hell even 4. It would match their fluff, as it says they like shootin more then fightin. And maybe make them a scoring unit as they like to take stuff that is useful.

Anywho

Codex: Necrons

Unit: Flayed Ones

Reason: Elite assault unit with NO power weapon choices, no Dedicated Transport, No shooting attacks can't be joined by Royal Court, 4+ save, and no Invul.

Best use: DS with Imotekh next to a unit to draw fire away from better targets. Tying up hard hitting units until something better can get there.

Improvement: Make them into a Troop Choice. Give some kind of power weapon. Allow Royal Court to Join. Give back their old Fear thing, (In case you don't know what this was, units in combat with them use to have to roll a moral check every turn. Failure meant they only hit on 6s for that round of combat) Even just one of these would make them a lot better.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

eldar swooping hawks or vypers. everything else in the army can do an equivalent job - either better for less or in a different manner.

sm scouts. camt shoot, cant hold up in combat, cant hold objectives well, cant counter objectives, and cannot distract when in a land spedder storm.


----------



## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

Cant believe no one did this...

Tau
Etherals

Reason: They dont do anything... great, so they get 4 s3 ws4 normal attacks. Great.uhh... no save, not particularly good stats. He can theoretically be ok with equipment, but its expensive. Also he cripples the tau army when he dies...
Uses: A good way to get some elite firewarriors. Also, in a devilfish can be helpful for leadership.
Changes: Make them no longer run away when he dies... and better stats?


----------



## Wax (Jan 6, 2010)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> Dark Angels: Ezekiel
> 
> Reason: No invulnerable save, shitty psychic powers, and paying through the nose for no visible benefit.
> Uses: Ld10 unlimited psychic hood to counter psychic powers. Also Mind Worm can be useful at taking down low LD biggies like Carnifexes.
> Improvements: Better psychic powers, or access to C:SM ones. Option to use multiple psychic powers a turn OR reduced points. Possibly an invulnerable save too?


Name me one Libby, not in Terminator armor, that has an invul. As for the shitty powers and high cost, he's in an old codex, when DA get updated (soon-ish) you should have both better powers and lower cost.

Also, you've got an unlimited range hood. That's awesome enough by itself.


----------



## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Codex: Necrons

Illuminor Szeras

Reason: Too expensive, doesn't grant a Royal Court, and his special power has a 1/3 chance of being totally useless.
Improvements: Let you pick the bonus, and give it to whatever you want instead of being random, and also let it be given to more infantry types than just warriors and immortals. Lower the cost.


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

> CD
> -Masque or Harald of slaanesh


.

Quick note on this one luke, give the herald a chariot and might (even musk if you're feeling sly) and you've got a 75 pt unit with ws5, 5 wounds, 7 initiative, 7 attacks on the charge with fleet, grenades and rending. Not to mention its calvary (19-24 threat range), and gains furious charge (bumping it up to str 5 int 8!?).

Beat that for 75 points!


----------



## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

Vaz said:


> eldar swooping hawks or vypers. everything else in the army can do an equivalent job - either better for less or in a different manner.
> 
> sm scouts. camt shoot, cant hold up in combat, cant hold objectives well, cant counter objectives, and cannot distract when in a land spedder storm.


And the uses and improvements are........?


----------



## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

uses of SM scouts, maybe killing high T MC's 

improvements, make them WS, BS 4


----------



## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

But if you make them ws and bs 4 they stop being scouts, they just become marines with a 4+ save, I always thought the ld should of been 7 for scouts and keep the sgt at 9.

A bigger range of weapons would of been nice to, like portable astartes grenade launchers.


----------



## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Maybe not the worst but one that to me just isn't right 

Codex Space Marines

Unit Land Speeder Storm

Reason :- Its a transport option for a small mediocre combat unit, that isn't a dedicated transport, and takes away a FA slot 

Fix:- Make it a dedicated transport


Sakura Scouts used to be WS/ BS 4. Of all the weapons I'd like a scout to have it would be a melta gun


----------



## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

I know they used to be, but now they are not, and that was the correct thing to do for glorified boy scouts.


----------



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Wax said:


> Name me one Libby, not in Terminator armor, that has an invul..


Nyall Stormcaller has 5++...

Eldar Guardians

Uses - sitting on an objective out of sight of everything. Can have a heavy weapon

Failings - having 12" range on shuriken cat's, t3. As soon as they can shoot they're in charge range. BS so 50/50 miss/hit. Save on a 5+. Absolute fodder troops, which are outdone on a man to man basis by individual guardsmen.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Gret79 said:


> Nyall Stormcaller has 5++...


Wrong, he does not.


----------



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

I thought if you took him in power armour he cost twenty points less and still had a 2+and 5++?

Then you can buy the terminator armour and he get's a 4++?

If this isn't the case then its a good job I've not used my wolves in the new edition...


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

he has a 5+ invul save against psychic powers thanks to his runic armour, terminator armour is shit on him as well because the 4+ invul is pants when it has to be re-rolled for perils.


----------



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

mcmuffin said:


> he has a 5+ invul save against psychic powers thanks to his runic armour, terminator armour is shit on him as well because the 4+ invul is pants when it has to be re-rolled for perils.


Thanks 

Now I know

and as I've seen somewhere else on this site

"Knowing is half the battle"


----------



## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

mcmuffin said:


> he has a 5+ invul save against psychic powers thanks to his runic armour, terminator armour is shit on him as well because the 4+ invul is pants when it has to be re-rolled for perils.


So... A 4++ that must be re-rolled in one particular circumstance is shit compared to no save for 20 points cheaper? Seriously?!

This is why I don't listen to "this unit is worthless" debates. 

Except for Spawn, they're Pants! (Spawn Pants sounds like a useless mutant ability lol)


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

*Comparatively* he is *shit* in that respect you might as well just a standard Priest in Terminator armour - the terminator armour does very little for him, as opposed to keeping him as is, and letting him rain thunder from the top hatch of a rhino.


----------



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Problem is he can't rain thunder from a top hatch, he has to get out for his super 'I am the storm master' effects to happen. He is ungodly expensive and putting more points into him for a invul that puts him over the cost of a LR is retarded.


----------



## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Him costing that much and having two wounds is what's retarded. Especially when half his crazy abilities don't work if you go second.


----------



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Agreed, back to the topic

Pretty much any of the BC flavors are bad but I think the Skyclaws are the worse. They have the limitations of the BC but the only way to counter this is with a HQ using a jumppack. 

To make them better they at the very least should have a WGP option, then as was stated with other BC earlier in this thread other general tweaks would be useful. At this point they are just too pricy of a unit to run.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Back to Njal, why does he have to be outside? You measure the effect from his Rhino.


----------



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I have always been under the impression his living storm things can not happen while he is in a rhino.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

DeathKlokk said:


> So... A 4++ that must be re-rolled in one particular circumstance is shit compared to no save for 20 points cheaper? Seriously?!


minor point, the terminator armour is shite because it is actually 25 points and stops him from being in a rhino. considering njal sucks balls anyway i think my argument is moot

EDIT: he needs line of sight with his power thingy, and as per the january faq you cannot use fire points to draw LoS


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

scscofield said:


> Agreed, back to the topic
> 
> Pretty much any of the BC flavors are bad but I think the Skyclaws are the worse. They have the limitations of the BC but the only way to counter this is with a HQ using a jumppack.
> 
> To make them better they at the very least should have a WGP option, then as was stated with other BC earlier in this thread other general tweaks would be useful. At this point they are just too pricy of a unit to run.


Skyclaws are alright, they are not the pure balls that blood claws are because you can just chuck them at something as a distraction and can throw MotW and a fist in there for a bucket of attacks, being a suicide unit. blood claws are too slow to accomplish anything.


----------



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I guess that is true, still boggles my mind that WGP can't go with them though. Why give WGP the option to purchase a JP if they can't help the JP retards of the codex out.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

mcmuffin said:


> minor point, the terminator armour is shite because it is actually 25 points and stops him from being in a rhino. considering njal sucks balls anyway i think my argument is moot
> 
> EDIT: he needs line of sight with his power thingy, and as per the january faq you cannot use fire points to draw LoS


Ah. Well that does make him useless.


----------



## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

Sisters of battle

Penitent Engines

Reason: Heavy slot which means it competes against units which provide the only long range fire in the army. Rage which means it can be lead on wild goose chases around the board. Plus open topped and crappy armour means its dies pretty easily, and since it already ignores shaken and stunned, having it in a squadron makes it more likely to die.

Best Use:
Run them behind a rhino wall for cover and hopefully they hit an expensive elite infantry squad.

Possible improvements: Get rid of rage and somehow make them more survivable. Maybe armour 12 front, or a feel no pain. I think adding them to the elite section would mean they would be more likely taken.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

mcmuffin said:


> Skyclaws are alright, they are not the pure balls that blood claws are because you can just chuck them at something as a distraction and can throw MotW and a fist in there for a bucket of attacks, being a suicide unit. blood claws are too slow to accomplish anything.


Not really on topic, but I've had this on me for a while. Can you use Mark of the Wulfen with a special weapon? I'm pretty sure the Codex esplicitly states that the attacks are with the model's claws and teeth and therefore receive no benefits from wargear.

Sorry to derail.

Midnight


----------



## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Wax said:


> Name me one Libby, not in Terminator armor, that has an invul. As for the shitty powers and high cost, he's in an old codex, when DA get updated (soon-ish) you should have both better powers and lower cost.
> 
> Also, you've got an unlimited range hood. That's awesome enough by itself.


50 points over a standard libby for artificer armour and another (shitty) power? Hmph. Also added to the fact that DA libbies pay extra for less and worse powers (though marginally better stats). And the psychic hood's all very well and nice, but you still have to succeed with it.


----------



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

MidnightSun said:


> Not really on topic, but I've had this on me for a while. Can you use Mark of the Wulfen with a special weapon? I'm pretty sure the Codex esplicitly states that the attacks are with the model's claws and teeth and therefore receive no benefits from wargear.
> 
> Sorry to derail.
> 
> Midnight



No you can not, it is basic rending attacks, doesn't matter what other gear it has. It's why you avoid putting it on things that have power weapons like WGP termies.


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

> 50 points over a standard libby for artificer armour and another (shitty) power? Hmph. Also added to the fact that DA libbies pay extra for less and worse powers (though marginally better stats). And the psychic hood's all very well and nice, but you still have to succeed with it.


He's also a LD10 IIRC the rest are LD9

Not worth the points boost to field him but it probably played a part to determine his cost.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks for clearing that up Scscofield.

Midnight


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Codex: Sisters of Battle (White Dwarf)
Unit: Canoness

Reason: Expensive HQ choice with a lack of options and an Act of Faith that doesn't work with any unit fully.

Best Use: Sticking her with a blob squad of Sisters may work, the increased initative and preferred enemy would pay off here, but with the current meta taking 20 Sisters on foot is a horrible idea (even if they would be stubborn on a 10).

Improvement: Reducing her costs would be an obvious option so becomes a good budget HQ choice, as would a dedicated close combat retinue (or giving the Celestians access to Power Weapons at least), but the biggest thing that would make her usefull again is bringing back her Jump Pack. 

She then goes from a model who has no real place to having a solid on with the Seraphim. With their reroll to wound when shooting (and base +2 from having and IC and a Superior in the squad giving their rerollable Act of Faith attempt a 3+ to go off) and improves the Seraphim's close combat abilities with preferred enemy making them a much more potentially lethal unit that really would be considered for use more often.

Heck that one thing gives her the ability to improve TWO units.


----------



## Suijin (Aug 11, 2011)

asianavatar said:


> Sisters of battle
> 
> Penitent Engines
> 
> ...


They are expensive too at 85 points each. I suppose if you consider GW prices a heavy flamer at 20 points each, then they are a deal since they have 2.


----------



## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

Codex: Necrons

Unit: Destroyers

Why do you have Preferred Enemy? YOU ARE A SHOOTING UNIT!

Use: Getting shot at for their short-ranged AP3 weaponry before they can use it.

Pros: There is a limit to how many you can have in your army.

Cons: You can have them in your army.

Improvements: Remove from 'dex or transform them back into their old selves.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Codex: Chaos Space Marines

Unit: All


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I'd hardly say that Chaos Terminators, Obliterators, Daemon Princes or Plague Marines are bad units. Chaos Rhinos are some of the best transports in the game.

Midnight


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> Chaos Terminatorscheap and cheerful, but outclassed by the likes of GK and hammernators,
> Obliteratorsbest of a bad bunch,
> Daemon Princes Terrible units now, were the beasts of the game for a whileor
> Plague Marinestoo expensive, but still usable are bad units.
> ...


CSM are just old, when they came out they were competitive, but they remain as bland as ever, almost 5 years on :cray:


----------



## Fenrisian (Jun 12, 2011)

Codex: Space wolf

Unit : Fenrisian Wolf

Why? : Low T ,bad ld, KP liability, take a slot in the FA, cant contest or capture

Utility : Trying to make a screen for footslugger or tie up a unit in combat

Improvement : Give them Furious charge


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Fenrisian said:


> Codex: Space wolf
> 
> Unit : Fenrisian Wolf
> 
> ...


Fen wolves are very useful because they are cheap and can be used as a 10 wound blob for a thunderwolf lord


----------



## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

Could write one up for the caladus assassin, evesore assassin, celuxus assassin & brother capt stern


----------



## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Codex: Necrons

Unit: Flayed-Ones

Reason: No Power Weapons/Rending, loss of "fear" ability, takes up Elite Choice (better spent on Lychguard or Stalkers).

Best Use: They are cheap (as much as a Warrior), could be useful in large numbers. Possibly only useful when used via Imotekh's Bloodswarm scarabs.

Improvements: Their fear ability alone could be worth getting them back. Else a higher initiative or power-weapons can improve them.


----------



## MidnightKid333 (Feb 2, 2011)

Kroot. 

That is all.

All your so-called "crappy" units are nothing when compared to kroot. Not even the necron flayed ones or destroyer can compare.

Face it, kroot will and always will be.. complete shit. The crown for the crappiest unit in warhammer 40k history goes to them.

some strong contenders, though, are the tyranids lictor, ripper swarm, sky slasher swarm and old one eye. Pyrovores are awesoem, though. Mycetic spore them and roast anything with a 4^ save


----------



## Marius_Ruberu (Feb 15, 2012)

I have Kroot in my Tau list and they always seem to do good. I use them to out flank a squad sitting in the back of the table like devistators. 

Codex: IG

Unit: Penal Legion

Good for a meat sheild, thats about it.

Their specail ability make them better at close combat,they really cant hold against anything but grots, they only have ws bs 3. They have no upgrades for better weapons, and they cost more than a Veteran squad. You can only get them in units of ten

Lower point cost, add a couple special weapons, raise how many that can be in a unit, and leave everything else the same. Hay, they are IG, im ok with the low bs and ws.


----------



## shmabadu (Oct 2, 2009)

Codex: Dark Eldar

Unit: Mandrake/ Kherudruakh

Why?: Point cost is to high for a T3 unit with no shooting attack, until you wipe out a unit, and doesn't have assault grenades even, so it will go last against a unit in cover and with it's low toughness and 5++ will die in droves. And the special 'mandrake' Kherudruakh, the possibly one thing that could make mandrakes worth getting, can't even join them as he's not an IC, this has to be the biggest cocktease of the whole codex. As they're one of, if not the coolest looking model in the DE codex, which has a lot of awesome models, I'm praying that 6th edition will somehow make them playable, but...well..I, I just don't see it happening

Improvement: Make Kherudruakh an IC, cut their point cost, and give them assault grenade equivalents.


----------



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Necrons

Flayed ones: Nothing like a horde CC unit that costs as much as forge world terminators price wise.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

MidnightKid333 said:


> Kroot.
> 
> That is all.
> 
> ...


Kroot provide a very useful tactical element for tau. They can be used as a an excellent defensive unit for blocking outflanking units, they provide bubble wrap for the weak fire warriors and battle suits. Not a shit unit in any sense at all, just shit when played wrong, but then, any unit is shit when used incorrectly

I'm not sure if you are being serious about pyrovores, they are the worst unit in that awful codex. If you spore them, you have to deep strike within template range, which is pathetic. One heavy flamer shot for 45 points. Amazing.


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

> I'm not sure if you are being serious about pyrovores, they are the worst unit in that awful codex. If you spore them, you have to deep strike within template range, which is pathetic. One heavy flamer shot for 45 points. Amazing.


Somewhere, a flamer of tzeentch is weeping.



> Face it, kroot will and always will be.. complete shit. The crown for the crappiest unit in warhammer 40k history goes to them.


Not even close. Some tau lists need some bubble wrap. There are MANY far more useless units in 40k.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

At least flamers of Tzeentch are AP3


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Flamers of Tzeentch are a great unit, Template wounding on 4+ with no save?, Jump Infantry, with a 4+ save. Nice.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> Flamers of Tzeentch are a great unit, Template wounding on 4+ with no save?, Jump Infantry, with a 4+ save. Nice.


Oh, i didn't realise they had Breath, even better.


----------



## Wax (Jan 6, 2010)

MidnightKid333 said:


> Kroot.
> 
> That is all.


Did someone say Kroot?


----------



## LOCHRIESBLOOD (May 29, 2012)

Unit Blood Angel Captin. Deemed as a versatile HQ choice when all other HQ's provide better army boosting powers eg Librarians/Reclusiarchs. He doesn't even get The leader ship boost or 2+ save like other captins do


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

MidnightKid333 said:


> Kroot.
> 
> That is all.
> 
> ...


What do you mean kroot?
Only reason why they might be poor is that people aren't using them right- throw a unit of 20 kroot and 12 hounds (with shaper) into the middle of your army and your laughing. About the same cost as a marine squad but pumping out 98 S4 attacks on charge (and still doing more shooting damage then 10 marines with boltguns). Leave them on a wood based objective, run them as counter-assault screens/blobs, infiltrate into woods to threaten enemy's flank as they advance or just shove them right in the enemy's face and run straight at them... gives you so many options that tau normally lack.

Hell, if I had plenty of money to burn I would be tempted to run an army with 5 units of 20 kroot, 12 hounds and a shaper... 160 models infiltrating right next to the enemy pumping out nearly 500 S4 attacks on charge (between them). It would be Tau teaching Orks how to do it (just need 1 unit of fire warriors, a HQ and some anti-tank to crack open enemy armour).


----------



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> Flamers of Tzeentch are a great unit, Template wounding on 4+ with no save?, Jump Infantry, with a 4+ save. Nice.


Plus, having come to Daemons from Chaos Marines, I'm used to using a 105pt 3 Man squad to deepstrike as close to something as possible and wipe it out.

Flamers do this to great effect.

For 105pts (3 man unit) you jump in and roast anything without a decent Invulnerable Save.



Anyway, the worst unit in the Chaos Daemon Codex has to be Furies. 

There is a concievable reason to take any other unit in the codex, with the exception being Furies, were there is no situation that they could be useful.

They are the same cost as Fleshhounds of Khorne with worse weapon skill and initiative, less overall range (although they can fly over terrain as they are jump infantry), but no Furious Charge or bonus of any other kind.

The unit just has no use in any army.

At least Beasts or Heralds of Nurgle can be put to use in a Tally List.


----------



## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

What we should do is make up the worst list we can manage using the worst units from all the dexes. 
Hq Etheral
Troops Penal legion
FA spawn
etc 
See what absolute pile of crap we can create for a specific points limit.


----------



## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> Codex: Necrons
> 
> Unit: Destroyers
> 
> ...


I don't think you're using the same Destroyers as me. With their 24" guns and 12" movement they have a threat range of 36" witch is better then a lot of other units. And if they're wasting heavy weapons on your destroyers then They're not shooting your: Annihilation Barges, Doomsday Arks, Doomscythes, Nightscythes, or Stalkers witch is a win in my book.

Also I've heard that Preferred Enemy is going to work with shooting attacks in 6th.


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

There'll be a lot of useless FA out there... elites and heavy support tend to have decent weaponry/combat power, but FA normally relies more on maneuverability and sneakiness, which is much easier to throw out of whack with a new dex or just badly written rules.

I always kinda hate people making "unusable" unit lists because I normally go out of my way to use everything from my armys' dexs and can usually see how other units would be good. There are only a tiny number of units that really don't have much going for them... spawn are certainly one (unless they are free).


----------



## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Da Joka said:


> I don't think you're using the same Destroyers as me. With their 24" guns and 12" movement they have a threat range of 36" witch is better then a lot of other units. And if they're wasting heavy weapons on your destroyers then They're not shooting your: Annihilation Barges, Doomsday Arks, Doomscythes, Nightscythes, or Stalkers witch is a win in my book.
> 
> Also I've heard that Preferred Enemy is going to work with shooting attacks in 6th.


If that is true...then destroyers will get a huge boost in usefulness. However...doesn't that essentially make it the same as twin-linked?


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

The Sturk said:


> If that is true...then destroyers will get a huge boost in usefulness. However...doesn't that essentially make it the same as twin-linked?


more likey to be either re-rolls to wound or +1 BS


----------



## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

The Sturk said:


> If that is true...then destroyers will get a huge boost in usefulness. However...doesn't that essentially make it the same as twin-linked?


It would.. but you'd also get to re-roll in combat, so it'd be slightly better then twin-linked.



mcmuffin said:


> more likey to be either re-rolls to wound or +1 BS


I'd take either one of those.


----------



## Rathios1337 (Jul 2, 2010)

Wax said:


> Did someone say Kroot?


That was at the last Scottish Conquest or something beginning with a C anyway that was the enemy's table edge in dawn of war.......................... Think about that for a second


----------



## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

i think we can add Kharn to the list of "why take now?"


----------



## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

Because you want to?


----------



## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Well I can remove Destroyers from this list thanks to Preferred Enemy being useful to them in Shooting...which means Flayed Ones are still the worst unit in our codex, but no one is surprised about that.


----------



## OMNOMNOMIVORE (May 31, 2012)

unit- Blood angels whirlwind

why it sucks-its a fast veicle that cant shoot at all when it moves, and its weapon profile makes it shit against anything but GeQ.

improvements-make the gun have a better profile for the shot that doesn't deny cover, something like S7 AP3, making it more versatile, wouldn't mind if this raised the cost so long as i wouldnt pay extra for it being fast.


----------



## seermaster (Feb 22, 2012)

i dont know if its been said but eldar suport weapons reason they take up heavy spots


----------



## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

Yeah, you only get a pathetic possible 7 heavy slots in 2000pts, fucking weapons taking up a massive 1.........................


----------



## OMNOMNOMIVORE (May 31, 2012)

Sakura_ninja said:


> Yeah, you only get a pathetic possible 7 heavy slots in 2000pts, fucking weapons taking up a massive 1.........................


now now, dont be cynical...


----------



## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

OMNOMNOMIVORE said:


> now now, dont be cynical...


Your right, I am sorry you can't spam 6 fire prisms if you take 1 weapon platform unit, it really screws eldar over entirely, 6th has wrecked the game for eldar and those platforms just stop you from.having any chance of winning, damn hey.


----------

