# What would you do if you ran the imperium?



## Battman (Nov 2, 2012)

Much of the backround of the 40k sugests that the imperium is slowly but surely dieing. Worlds are regularly sacrificed and troops sent off to die to slow this eventuality.

If you ran the imperium? Through being the second Regent after malcador the sigilite or a high lord. What would you change? What other ideas could you implement to change this future? How could you save us? 

Personally im thinking consolidate resources to a smaller zone maybe just a few key systems barricade them to hell then and only then try to gain more worlds. But this seems to be a plan based on luck and a lot of sacrifce . Then there would be little chance that any of the groups would agee or be willing to do any of this. And if they did would resources be enough to survive? To survive this galactical seige?


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

Remove all noble governors from all planets, executing them,their families, seizing their possessions for the war efforts and replace them with Schola Progenium candidates. 

Introducing strict meritocracy for all leadership roles in every institution. 

Reduce Ecclesiarchy power. 

Giving the Mechanicum a good kicking in their metal rear forcing them to be less ignorant and more obedient. 

Better discipline for the guard, meaning no more honor related bullshit. Regiments not cooperating together efficiently will face harsh commissariat retaliation. 

Same for the navy. Rivalries, honor duels...you get the commissar bullet. 

No more Space Marine dickery tolerance. You refuse orders, you get your genetically enhanced ass chewed by the wolves or the minotaurs. 
Introducing commissars in the administratum. No more useless bureocratic bullshit, unless you want to die. 


I'll think of more.


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## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

MOAR TITANS





Disclaimer, not necessarily the best tactical course of action due to terrible tack records.


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## joebauerek (May 14, 2010)

Give the mechanicum a good kicking.... invent better weapons or die. And give me more titans and fix those sodding thunderhawks.

Direct the tyrannids towards others. Let them kill or weaken the enemies then move in.

Guard and Navy reform to make them better.... as said previously commissar bullets of any bureaucratic bs.

All and I mean all leaders are based on merit and those found to be unworthy have all there possessions stripped and are assigned to penal battalions.

Rip up the codex... let marine chapters grow as large as possible...... chaplaincy to be supplemented by yet more chaplains (1 in 5 to be a chaplain)

Go back to the emperors teachings.... there are no gods not even him..... non-compliance results in swift retribution.

Bitch slap the Lion into waking up. Find Corax, Russ and Vulkan. Get the harliquins to find the Kahn. Find a way of healing Guilliman up. Oh and yes with the new and improved mechanicum fix the emperors throne and wake him back up.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Battman said:


> What would you change?


Nothing much. The Imperium isn't going anywhere soon (unless the Golden Throne fails but there's not much that can be done about that) and has held the various forces that assault it at bay for about 4000 years, longer than any other empire I can think of. Drastic changes now would simply result in infighting and the Imperium falling apart much faster.



> Personally im thinking consolidate resources to a smaller zone maybe just a few key systems barricade them to hell then and only then try to gain more worlds.


So your plan is a massive retreat, followed by a bloody attempt to retake the worlds you just abandoned? Doesn't make much sense to me. 

And once you start falling back, you don't stop. You buy time initially but then your enemies catch up, all the stronger for the territory you've given them.



Romanov77 said:


> Remove all noble governors from all planets, executing them,their families, seizing their possessions for the war efforts and replace them with Schola Progenium candidates.


Why? Most planets are run quite well by the individuals who's families have hundreds of years experience with their governance. The Schola Progenium doesn't train people to lead, it trains them to follow. 



> Better discipline for the guard, meaning no more honor related bullshit. Regiments not cooperating together efficiently will face harsh commissariat retaliation.
> 
> Same for the navy. Rivalries, honor duels...you get the commissar bullet.


This is going to result in a *lot* of deaths. It will also result in the reduced effectiveness of many regiments, as you're effectively trying to cut out an important part of their culture. And it will, ultimately, fail to provide any useful changes and may result in rebellion.



> No more Space Marine dickery tolerance. You refuse orders, you get your genetically enhanced ass chewed by the wolves or the minotaurs.


The Wolves and the Minotaurs are but two Chapters, they lack the numbers (or even the ability) to deal with multiple Chapters. Further, if you treat "dickery" as equivalent to heresy, you simply make the chapters you push more likely to fall to heresy (look at the Soul Drinkers for example).



joebauerek said:


> Direct the tyrannids towards others. Let them kill or weaken the enemies then move in.


Directing the Tyranids is difficult at best, if not impossible. It's also worth noting that the Tyranids grow stronger with every victory, at some point you are going to have to deal with the swarm and you aren't going to want it to be more powerful.



> Rip up the codex... let marine chapters grow as large as possible ...... chaplaincy to be supplemented by yet more chaplains (1 in 5 to be a chaplain)


The Chapter reform is a very good idea considering the possibility of Chapters going rogue. Chaplains don't reduce this risk much, as Chaplains are still recruited from the same native culture, and it is often this culture that causes the problems (the Sons of Malice for example).



> Go back to the emperors teachings.... there are no gods not even him..... non-compliance results in swift retribution.


This is not a good idea, aside from being impossible. Disbanding a galaxy of faith is a very tall order, and since all of your soldiers will be part of that faith, there really isn't a starting ground. These days there are many worlds that are held in compliance purely through their faith in the God-Emperor, and many more which would rebel if that faith was declared illegal and punishable by death.



> Bitch slap the Lion into waking up. Find Corax, Russ and Vulkan. Get the harliquins to find the Kahn. Find a way of healing Guilliman up. Oh and yes with the new and improved mechanicum fix the emperors throne and wake him back up.


These ideas just aren't possible. No one but the Watchers (who aren't human) know the Lion is alive. Corax, Russ and Vulkan are as likely to be dead as alive and buried deep into the Eye if they do live. Guilliman's dead. The Golden Throne was always beyond the ability of the Mechanicus to work on, that won't change just because you tell them to progress more.


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

I think the mechanicus have a lot to answer for, I've seen it written and also with the skitari etc that they can equip the guard better. They're being idiots with so few forge worlds that can make big bad arse stuff. In one of Cains books it is said that an old battleship is much more capable then what they have 'now'. I can go on but basically 'have a word' with the mechanicus

Get the imperium a better database and way of dealing with the info that they have, it's all too convoluted and mucked up. 10 years is too long for a response for aide as is often the case

Also make the different systems work better together, maybe subsidise transport between systems with Imperial Navy patrols or something

Remove the limit of 1000 on SM chapters (however it is normally easier to replace a chapter then re-equip one that's been decimated)


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

IMO, almost all the failings of the Imperium can be fixed if the mechanicum moved away from trying to recover old technology but instead innovate and invent, it's currently simply mired in the past.
once that's done everything that can be fixed, will to a large extent be fixed.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Even if they do decide to invent/innovate, the Imperium is so large, communication between the millions of worlds is slow and unreliable, and the empire is raided constantly by cults, xenos and heretics so even when new things are invented, they rarely if ever enter mainstream Imperial society.


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

Oh, I forgot:

Instead of spending trillions of resources in tanks, Las guns, mortars, let's just build some small nukes and some reliable delivery system.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

Arm the Imperial Guard with Buckfast and watch them kick fuck out of all and sundry!!!!


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

i fake my own death in a "heroic battle" then put some cyborg on a life support system that everyone thought was me and have it make odd cryptic gestures now and then that my flunkies would interpret in a 1000 different ways and have them run things.

Kick back, enjoy the fun.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Even if they do decide to invent/innovate, the Imperium is so large, communication between the millions of worlds is slow and unreliable, and the empire is raided constantly by cults, xenos and heretics so even when new things are invented, they rarely if ever enter mainstream Imperial society.


All you need is a handful of planets that are actually innovating, then given about 50 years, it will naturally disseminate into the rest of the Imperium, the reason why the Mechanicum zealously protects knowledge, is because they dont make their own innovations, they are tied to the past, they hoard their relics, but knowledge became something to pursue, then they would to a greater extent unshackle science, due to the fact they can hoard the past, but the future remains.......full of promise.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

To be fair, the Mechanicus have good reason to be so technologically conservative. 

Consider the origins of the organisation. On a macro level humanity is entering its darkest age. As worlds are lost the knoweldge they hold is also lost, never to be regained. The promise of technology has betrayed you as the Men of Iron rise up and try and destroy you. Technology is no longer the solution to a promising future, rather it's something to fear. 

On the micro level Mars itself is failing. Your colony is in civil war and the life sustaining devices on the planet are failing. The Sol system is in chaos and sinking to barbarity. Your leaders, visionaries and scholars are dead.

In this climate of fear and uncertainty the Mechanicum is born. From first hand experience they learn not to trust technology, to be skeptical and thoroughly investigate it. They come to think that perhaps it was all their fault, that the men of iron turned against them due to poor treatment, this slowly turns into the veneration of all technology. They're desperate to prevent a repeat of their near extinction. They're too busy trying to survive and preserve what they have to invent new technology. 

As to the op. 

It's a tough question as you're really actually quite limited in what you can achieve thanks to the sheer size of the Imperium. Any form of institutional reform as Romanov77 is proposing would be nigh impossible to achieve. These are institutions that are immensely powerful with 10,000 years of history, influence and tradition. I don't see how you can overturn that. 

I'd be praying for a primach to return. If one did i'd then have a new Space Marine founding, as many chapters as i could. These would be placed under the command of the primarch and have the responsibility of dealing with major threats to humanity in turn. 

This would keep the Imperium's defences as they are whilst providing it with a strategic reserve and offensive force. There's this new hostile empire called the Tau? The primarch goes on crusade to deal with them. Hive Fleet Leviathan bearing down on Segmentum Solar? Off goes the Primarch. They'd be used like the legions were in the Great Crusade. 

Failing a primarch's return i might still do the founding. The problem would be finding someone you can trust enough to place in charge. I'm thinking Marneus Calgar would be a good bet. He's unquestionably loyal and commands a good deal of respect and good will.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Eliminate all Ordos except the Inquisition. Mechanicus and Ecclesiarch would be the first to go. From there I would start a massive galaxy wide search for SCT and bring all technology up to date. Then I would start cloning massive amounts of Astarte's gene-seeds.

Rebuild the Space Marines, grow the Guard, and try and bring everything under my heel.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Rems said:


> These are institutions that are immensely powerful with 10,000 years of history, influence and tradition


So did many nations Rems, and yet they all Fall. Egypt fell, Rome was brought to heel, Holy Roman Empire was crushed, the naval empire of Great Britain. It all comes crashing down with enough skill, purpose, and a bit of luck.

So yes I disagree. These organizations can be brought down, or at least to heel. The Emporer did it....I'm sure there are others just as good as him who can.


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## Protoss119 (Aug 8, 2010)

-Create successors from the geneseed of the Angry Marines. Send them at threats, watch threats go away.
-Have the magi on every Forge World ever get together and create a bioweapon from the gene from Astartes-pattern baldness and infect the Eldar with it. The Eldar will be rendered so bald and foolish as to be ineffective.
-Build a giant tower meant to resemble a middle finger and put a macro cannon on it. Stick wheels on it and order Creed to infiltrate it into the Eye of Terror.
-Tell the Fabricator General to come up with a new Titan, bigger than an Imperator, designed in my image because I'm so great. If he refuses, sic Angry Marines on him.
-Harness the power of Bald.
-Reclaim the lost 100 Baneblades.
-Propose new psycho-indoctrination to various Chapter Masters compelling Space Marines to facepalm in disgust every time they hear anything about Chaos. This should prevent Spess Mehreens from falling to Chaos since its appeal would be reduced to that of a 13 year old on an internet forum.
-Commission the biggest hat and the largest pauldrons in the Imperium so everyone can know who is in charge. I don't care if I can't wear them.
-In the event that all of this fails, commission all the worlds that can to mass-produce amasec, vox recordings of ancient terran hits, and disco balls. If the Imperium falls, we will make sure there will be only party.

Remember, only the insane have strength enough to prosper; only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

emporershand89 said:


> Eliminate all Ordos except the Inquisition. Mechanicus and Ecclesiarch would be the first to go. From there I would start a massive galaxy wide search for SCT and bring all technology up to date. Then I would start cloning massive amounts of Astarte's gene-seeds.
> 
> Rebuild the Space Marines, grow the Guard, and try and bring everything under my heel.


How exactly as a a high lord or regent of terra are you going to achieve this? 

You try and get rid of the Ecclessiarchy and the Mechanicus and they will declare war on you, taking a sizeable portion of the Imperium with them. Hell you take away the Mechanicus and suddenly you don't have any infrastructure capability. You won't have guns or the ammo to fire them. 

You're trying to remove the two most powerful, and critical, institutions of the Imperium. That's not going to work. You can't just wave your hands or issue an edict and they disappear. For starters they have their respective High Lords as well. You'd start a civil war and destroy the Imperium. 

As an aside Ordo's are what make up 'The Inquisition'. You have the Ordo Hereticus, Malleaus and Xenos etc So i'm not sure what you mean by that.



emporershand89 said:


> So did many nations Rems, and yet they all Fall. Egypt fell, Rome was brought to heel, Holy Roman Empire was crushed, the naval empire of Great Britain. It all comes crashing down with enough skill, purpose, and a bit of luck.
> 
> So yes I disagree. These organizations can be brought down, or at least to heel. The Emporer did it....I'm sure there are others just as good as him who can.


I don't know of any nations or empires that existed for 10,000 years. The Imperium and its institutions are the longest lasting, most successful human regimes established. One high lord/regent is not going to bring it down.


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## xxJoshxx (Jul 21, 2009)

Virus Bomb everything not completely controlled by the Imperium and build a bomb the size of the Imperial Palace and ram that bitch into the Eye of Terror then dust my hands off.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Rems said:


> I don't know of any nations or empires that existed for 10,000 years. The Imperium and its institutions are the longest lasting, most successful human regimes established. One high lord/regent is not going to bring it down.


You know what Rems, YOU KNOW WHAT????!!!!! It's so ture, wwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh :suicide:



Magpie_Oz said:


> i fake my own death in a "heroic battle" then put some cyborg on a life support system that everyone thought was me and have it make odd cryptic gestures now and then that my flunkies would interpret in a 1000 different ways and have them run things.


This was so good, I posted it on Dakka Dakka and had so many funny comments. +1 for humor.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

emporershand89 said:


> This was so good, I posted it on Dakka Dakka and had so many funny comments. +1 for humor.


I as also going to add I'd trick them into "feeding" me psykers and pick out the best chicks for myself!


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

In terms of results and given the context: the Imperium has been run very effectively since the Horus Heresy. The fact that it still exists as a major galactic empire is testament to that. 

Realistically, seriously challenging one of the established institutions such as the Adeptus Mechanicus, Inquisition, or Ecclesiarchy is almost-certainly guaranteed to end in failure or civil war. Similarly, challenging the Codex Astartes would be near-impossible given that the vast majority of the Adeptus Astartes religiously adhere to it. As far as I can see there is little that a single individual can do to alter the course of events. Humanity is entering the Time of Ending™ and there is nothing anyone can do, save perhaps the God-Emperor himself.

And given some of the "plans" I've read here, I'm glad some of you guys aren't in charge. :wink:


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## Lord Commander Solus (Jul 26, 2012)

Slowly weaken the Ecclesiarchy, but don't wipe it out. As far as we know, it's faith that provides the raw power to the Astronomican.

Open negotiations with xenos. Form an alliance with the Tau and Eldar, if possible, and share knowledge and technology. Hopefully use this technology to try and revitalise the Mechanicum, alongside a legislative kick up the backside to encourage development and rediscovery of past technology.

A complete strategic overhaul. All Imperial military must answer to one strategic command, which is broken down into sectors and individual theatres. When a task force is assigned a mission, we understand the Warp will make regular communication impossible, so give them the autonomy to act freely (answering to the task force's internal command structure of course) provided reports are sent as regularly as possible. This would include the Space Marines.

Decentralise government. Trying to organise everything from Terra is a nightmare; keep Terra as the centre, but put the government of sectors in the hands of separate capitals. All sector-capitals answer to Terra, and each section of the sector answers to the sector-capital, and so forth so that each level subdivides into a structure that is capable of supporting itself. Hopefully this means that issues are dealt with as they are passed up the chain, rather than all being dumped into the rubbish-heap that is Terran bureaucracy. 

Immediately abandon fringe-worlds threatened by the Hive Fleet. Evacuation will only lead to genestealer contamination. 

Negotiate with awakening Necrons where possible. If some sort of agreement can be come to, rather than operating a costly war each time a Tomb World is discovered, then this is much preferred. Similarly, any Orks or Dark Eldar that will negotiate should be offered the opportunity at any availability. 

Proclaim myself Emperor, and legislate for hereditary succession. Establish a fiercely loyal institution set up to train the new Emperor from birth, so that when they come to power they are capable of ruling the Imperium. 

Full press-censorship and a totalitarian state. Freedom is only going to make people realise how bad the situation is, and we need to limit that eventuality.

Impose strict guidelines on each sector; they must not only be self-sufficient, but must then pass tax up to the central government. They must seek to their own defence, feed themselves, provide for their own industrial goods etc. so that each area of the Imperium is driven to be more efficient.

Abolish Chapter homeworlds, instead making them all fleet-based. The military should have absolutely no sway over domestic issues, and planet-governors should be appointed by sector-capital leaders (on advice from elected councils).



Bottom-line:

- Embrace the xenos, rather than abhor them. Cooperation means less war and more mutual benefit.

- Tear down the inefficient bureaucracy and decentralise, as well as encouraging (and enforcing) self-sufficiency.

- Provide a clear succession line and clear leader, so the Imperial citizens don't feel directionless.

- Purge any military influence from domestic issues, and reorganise the forces into a clear command structure.

- Abandon impossible defences and completely halt expansion.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Lord Commander Solus said:


> Open negotiations with xenos. Form an alliance with the Tau and Eldar, if possible, and share knowledge and technology.


The Tau have very little to offer the Imperium and the Eldar are uninterested in any sort of mutually beneficial agreement. The Eldar are quite willing to work with the Imperium in the short term, so long as the long term benefit sits with them, and are more than happy to sacrifice human lives for their own purposes. Trusting the Xenos only gives them better opportunities to betray you later.



> A complete strategic overhaul. All Imperial military must answer to one strategic command, which is broken down into sectors and individual theatres. When a task force is assigned a mission, we understand the Warp will make regular communication impossible, so give them the autonomy to act freely (answering to the task force's internal command structure of course) provided reports are sent as regularly as possible. This would include the Space Marines.
> 
> Decentralise government. Trying to organise everything from Terra is a nightmare; keep Terra as the centre, but put the government of sectors in the hands of separate capitals. All sector-capitals answer to Terra, and each section of the sector answers to the sector-capital, and so forth so that each level subdivides into a structure that is capable of supporting itself. Hopefully this means that issues are dealt with as they are passed up the chain, rather than all being dumped into the rubbish-heap that is Terran bureaucracy.


While I can't say for certain, I feel like this is already how the Imperium governs. Having Terra solve anybodies problems just wouldn't work due to the logistical issues of warp communication.



> Immediately abandon fringe-worlds threatened by the Hive Fleet. Evacuation will only lead to genestealer contamination.


You've just made the Hive stronger by giving them these free worlds. Do you plan to do the same again when they continue to expand? At what point do you actually try to fight them, and how much stronger are they then than now?



> Negotiate with awakening Necrons where possible. If some sort of agreement can be come to, rather than operating a costly war each time a Tomb World is discovered, then this is much preferred. Similarly, any Orks or Dark Eldar that will negotiate should be offered the opportunity at any availability.


The Dark Eldar are even more uninterested in mutually beneficial arrangements than the Eldar, and even more willing to betray humans for their own gain. The Orks are interested in one thing only, fighting. Any alliance with them would be extremely likely to implode the moment they have a change in leadership, or just get bored. The Necrons may be interested in alliance and agreement but their ultimate goal is unknown any likely to be sinister, or at the very least uninterested in the welfare of humanity. The Xenos is like a viper, clutch it to your chest and all it will do is bite you.



> Proclaim myself Emperor, and legislate for hereditary succession.


This and ...



> - Provide a clear succession line and clear leader, so the Imperial citizens don't feel directionless.


This are contradictory. The Imperium already has a clear leader, the God-Emperor of Mankind. There is absolutely no scenario in which declaring yourself to be emperor doesn't result in civil war.



> Full press-censorship and a totalitarian state. Freedom is only going to make people realise how bad the situation is, and we need to limit that eventuality.


Again, this is how the Imperium already operates.



> Impose strict guidelines on each sector; they must not only be self-sufficient, but must then pass tax up to the central government. They must seek to their own defence, feed themselves, provide for their own industrial goods etc. so that each area of the Imperium is driven to be more efficient.


I feel like this is already Imperial policy but I'll still point out that the reason people pay taxes is because they expect something in return. Defense being a big part of that. If the Imperium in general is unwilling or unable to provide defenses to it's territories, then what incentive do those territories have to remain part of the Imperium? This is exactly why Britain revolted from Roman control in the 400's. 



> Abolish Chapter homeworlds, instead making them all fleet-based. The military should have absolutely no sway over domestic issues, and planet-governors should be appointed by sector-capital leaders (on advice from elected councils).


1) Technically Space Marine Chapters are not supposed to have any say in the governance of a planet. That many routinely break this rule simply makes it more likely that they will also routinely break the new one.
2) Static Chapter homeworlds are useful for the defense of the Imperium. Not only do they provide greater resource capabilities to the Chapter they also necessitate defense of a region in the face of invasion. And they make successful rebellion difficult.
3) Chapter's require worlds in order to procure new recruits. It is faster, easier and probably safer to have them do this from one planet, one on which they have a permanent presence. 
4) Military issues are the domestic issues of the Imperium, or at least the ones they are most focused on. It makes complete sense to have military oversight on local governments, so that these governments are capable of responding quickly and effectively to threats.



> - Abandon impossible defences and completely halt expansion.


Once you abandon expansion you make your defeat inevitable. It might (and I must stress the uncertainty here) make you better able to defend the worlds you currently have but it will make every defeat irreplaceable. Slowly you will be driven back until you have nothing left. The Imperium must push back it's foes or it will be forced back itself.


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## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

If possible have more chapters instead of just 1000 chapters of Space marines .

For space travel they rely upon the astropath to travel space. I think this is good and bad since the astropath relies on the Emperor light as a beacon. 
However, I don't understand why not just create a satellite or a homing beacon through out the galaxy which can be used as a map for the many space ships. The benefit to this is less reliance on astropath and more on science. 

There are worlds that have certain function for example forge world or hive world ..and with some of these worlds they depend upon delivery for food and water.. If possible have some of these worlds become more self -reliant. But I think I understand why the Imperium does this. Its a way to control the many different worlds . But it makes thinks inefficient .


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## Sequere_me_in_Tenebras (Nov 11, 2012)

Reintroduce the legions. Chapters are just holding back the eval forces, it's a piecemeal effort. A new Great Crusade is required. 

Who would lead it though? Good question.


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

The way I see it the Great Crusade worked because you had inspirational leaders leading massive forces at different points in the galaxy. This allowed you to be proactive rather than reactive and firefighting. 

In the absence of Primarchs what about charismatic bad ass generals (I know they are few and far between but it's a big Imperium for goodness sake). The Imperium is failing, you need to deal with some of the threats and put them down for good. Engaging piecemeal will never work, the way the Imperium wins is to bring it's ridiculously massive forces to bear on single targets.

Start a crap tonne of huge crusades, send them off into different places. Best case scenario you put down some threats, most likely you make some gains which gives you breathing space, worst case you use up all of your resources and have nothing to defend yourself with. At least you stop delaying the inevitable.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Make sure the Imperial Fists got their place in the sun, and make them the exemplars as the Ultramarines seems to be U2 in space rescuing the universe as long as the cameras are rolling. Hehe.

I would also make sure the Inquisitor High Lord were present at Terra to prevent the High Lords from going AWOL and going to civil war to further their own ambition.


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## Sangriento (Dec 1, 2010)

ally with Tau and Eldars. that way you have an army with webway access to any part of the galaxy, super technology and night-unlimited manpower.

then focus on an enemy at a time. first chaos, then nids, then necrons, orks last.

finally divide the galaxy in 3 areas of influence...ok, probably I'd try to get the taus to doublecross the eldars, but Im quite sure that wouldnt work...

of course nothing of this would be done, I'd be assassinated not even 5 minutes after donning my Emperor powers, because Im such a xenoscum lover...


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## randian (Feb 26, 2009)

kwak76 said:


> If possible have more chapters instead of just 1000 chapters of Space marines.


This. The basic economics of Space Marines as portrayed make no sense. There's no way 1 million SM represent a measurable drain on an empire of 1 million _planets_, yet we're supposed to believe the Imperium doesn't have the resources to make or supply more. 100 million SM would be a more believable number, which they could easily have if they had made recruitment a high priority over the millennia.

Does the Codex really limit total SM population, rather than just the size of individual chapters? Seems like a major failure for a super-genius like Guilliman to so hamstring the Imperium and not provide for (or even encourage) expansion of its defense needs. Given the appearance of new enemies since the end of the Great Crusade (Necrons, Tyranids, Tau) and ever burgeoning ranks of old enemies (Chaos) you'd think SM production would be on overdrive, rather than just being in replacement mode.


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## HOGGLORD (Jan 25, 2012)

I would gather together all the resources in the imperium, consolidate all it's assets into one area, then live my life with an infinite supply of everything I've ever wanted. 
Oh, and make a standing alliance with the tau so I can have gun drones doing large dance routines.


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## Cowbellicus (Apr 10, 2012)

It's actually quite simple. Impose two simple changes in war doctrine:

*Shoot fortresses from orbit.

Stop with the damn swords already.

*That's pretty much it. I figure those would reduce combat losses approximately 96%, Imperium-wide. With that newfound efficiency, we'd secure the rest of the galaxy in under 1000 years give or take.*
*


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Basic reaction?


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I think the Imperium suffers from two major weaknesses. First, it typically acts reactively instead of proactively. Second, it doesn't seem plan on the macro level that much. Or perhaps it simply doesn't do so that _well._

Where the first is concerned, this seems to be a result of the sheer bulk of the Imperium. It's so large, and has so many enemies, and suffers from so many problems, that it can't possibly address all the issues it must. A prime example of this is the Imperial Guard fluff regarding armies arriving years after the end of a war, or the Guard ordering the sanction of a general they didn't know was dead decades before their proclamation.

Where the second is concerned, that too seems to have a lot to do with the Imperium's size. The Imperium is plagued by so many problems, and most efforts seem to go toward addressing immediate issues rather than root causes or upcoming problems. Hive worlds only grow in population, even though they require obscene amounts of resources from surrounding worlds and systems. Did the Imperium plan for such inefficient worlds to exist? Judging by the description of the hives themselves, I would guess not.

On the flip side, though, we do have examples of things the Imperium does right. Forge Worlds, for instance, are a strength of the Imperium. Their industrial capacity is absolutely necessary. Sure, they're a cautionary tale of unchecked industrial damage, but only in the real world - not in a fictional dystopia where Humanity is opposed by supernatural forces led by gods that thirst for our blood.

How would I run things? Well, I think the answer was already out there, but the High Lords kind of forgot the obvious.

Think about the Great Crusade for a second. After the unification of Terra and Mars, and following what was probably decades (at least) or even centuries of preparation, the Emperor launched an obscene amount of forces against the Galaxy. Those forces only grew after more planets (and Forge Worlds, especially) were recovered, but still - those two planets generated a stupendous amount of military materiel, starships, and warriors. Now, was Mars the pinnacle of a Forge World? Sure, and I have no doubt it played a role on the quantity of materiel that was produced. Hold on to this thought for a second.

Let's also consider what we know about the Space Marines. In their current incarnation, many of their Chapters are incredibly inefficient. Much has been said about their selectivity, and how difficult it is to find a proper recruit... but think on four of the First Founding Chapters that we know of:

1. The Ultramarines hold six-seven inhabited planets, with a population numbering in the hundreds of millions (if not billions) and an infrastructure specifically geared toward sustaining a Chapter of Space Marines.

2. The Imperial Fists have Necromunda, which contains countless hives and a population we can only guess at. They are content to recruit from any of the planet's social strata, to include criminals and the scum of society.

3. The Blood Angels have Baal Secundus, an irradiated wasteland with an insignificant population of irradiated, comparatively primitive, nomadic tribesmen.

4. The Dark Angels bounce from planet to planet, recruiting from feral cultures. On at least one occasion, they got two viable recruits (and it should have been three) from a couple dozen teenagers.

What does this tell us? The selectiveness Space Marine Chapters have with their recruits probably has more to do with the fact that they are bound by their paranoid masters to keep their numbers at a specific level. Given this, it wouldn't be unusual for a group that considered themselves elite to impose incredible standards... even if said standards weren't really necessary. In all actuality, it's the psycho- and hypnotic indoctrination, their mental training, and their superhuman organs that make Space Marines what they are: not the fact that they were King of the Hunters on Jungle World X.

So, my solution:

I would have (because it's too late now) leaned forward about a millennium or so and established a number of what I would call "Crusade Systems", from scratch. The intent for each of these systems would be to have them operate independently from the rest of the Imperium insofar as they would not require resource assistance past a certain point of development, nor would they contribute (Tithe level Adeptus Non).

Each of these Crusade Systems would have, at a minimum, a Forge World and what would functionally be a Fortress World. Once the infrastructure was in place (the longest part of the process), each System would have, say, a five hundred year timeline. One world would crank out materiel and starships; the other would breed warriors. Each First Founding Chapter's Geneseed would be used to create a single Chapter within the system. The intent would be for each Crusade System to kick off what Terra and Mars did, albeit in miniature form, at the end of their respective five hundred year (or whatever) timeline. Nine different crusade fleets would sail out, each headed by a Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes (which would obviously be a crusading Chapter), each with its own fleet and Imperial Guard Army, each with its own Mechanicus contingent, each with its own Inquisitorial representation.

So what you would basically have is a recurring calendar of Crusades being launched from each of these systems at the end of every cycle. Rather than the ad-hoc system of launching Crusades against a specific threat or location, these systems would churn out Crusades to seek out and destroy the Imperium's enemies independent from whatever the rest of the Adeptus Astartes, Imperial Guard, and Imperial Navy did.

I don't know how realistic it would be, but I would want no less than roughly a hundred such systems established - which could mean as many as a thousand Crusades above and beyond whatever the Imperium normally organizes every few centuries. Each of those Crusades would have the advantage of not weakening the Imperium in terms of resources or manpower. Each of them would also benefit from a force structure that is still divided in terms of authority (per the Codex Astartes) and overseen by the Holy Ordos, but has been growing, planning, and training specifically to fight together.

The ultimate intent for this system would be to take the weight off the Imperium enough for me to address the inefficiency inherent in a great deal of the Imperium's worlds, systems, and even sectors - over the long term, of course. Given some flexibility, and having had some of the tithe burden removed from them, certain planets might re-address the way they utilize their manpower (less Necromunda, more Thracian Primaris), becoming more efficient and independent. This might in turn make the defense and infrastructure of the Imperium more bearable.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

The Imperial Fist doesn't own Necromunda. They have a recruitment-center there. Infact the nicest Space Marines are the Imperial Fists, just too bad they are unsmiling hard-liners, and I thought the Ultramar-system was nine planets, eight now.

I agree with your points about hives being wasteful, I mean basically at the lower levels you can just shut off the fans making life better there, or maybe introduce Ogryns and Grox there, but then the worst human gangs are supplanted. Infact the ideal planet seems to be the Industrial planet. It combines the best of both worlds both hive and forge without the massive offset.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Beaviz81 said:


> The Imperial Fist doesn't own Necromunda.


It's simply a turn of phrase. I know they don't own it. 

Bottom line, that's their main listed recruitment hub, and I wanted to juxtapose it against the radically different recruitment practices of the Ultramarines, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels - all of whom rely on much different environments and population sizes, all of whom are also able to get their thousand-strong numbers (the Dark Angels probably more so, since the new Codex implies larger-than-standard Deathwing and Ravenwing formations).


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

I just wish you had quoted everything else I said about the IMperial Fists as they are hands down my favorite SM-chapter with the Space Wolves a close second.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I was just addressing our single point of contention, is all.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Honestly, the critical problem seems to be dependency on the Emperor for warp travel, rather than Imperial philosophy (though that is heavily flawed too)...
We know the Emperor is going to die on the throne eventually, so it makes sense to pump more resources into working out inter-planetary travel that isn't warp dependent, or at the least work out how to navigate without depending on the Emprah and a psychic choir...
So it would also make sense making an alliance with the Tau: Yes, their empire is tiny in the grand scheme of things, and yes their technology isn't actually much more advanced than the Imperium's, but as I understand it they have a type of interplanetary travel that 'skims the warp' an dis faster-than-light. Yes, slower than warp travel, but it might lead to new discoveries if developed by the Mechanicum and Tau scientists...And it's better than being left with nothing when the psychic choir does eventually go out. 
Regardless, a Tau alliance would actually help shore up the Eastern Fringe against the Nidz especially when allied with the Ultramarines and Eldar craftworlds in the region, leaving vital resources to be spent elsewhere (Cadia?). Also, their apparent psychic blanking ability could be useful in the fight against Chaos. 

I'd also grant Ahriman an official pardon, and get him and a bunch of Grey Knights/Inquisitors (Draco etc)/Illuminati to break into the Black library again and steal some more secrets...Preferably regarding webway travel...

Then flick off the switch to the throne and wait the Emprah to become reincarnated.

The end.

Edit: Ahriman can steal the Book of Magnus and gets to keep it. He will also receive 3 cookies on completion of the mission.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

You don't need to Tau, though. There have been at least two instances where the Astronomicon concept was copied (in Ultramar, during the Heresy, though it remains to be seen what form this takes) or expanded on (the Blood Ravens' Beacon Psykana).

While the Emperor's death would be catastrophic in the short term, what is really going to do in the Imperium is that happening in conjunction with something on the scale of Abaddon's Thirteenth Black Crusade. If it's just "business as usual", the Imperium's reaction time would be slowed even more, but it's not as if the absence of the Astronomicon on its own would cause interstellar travel to cease altogether. Rather, the key question is whether the Imperium would have enough time to replace the Astronomicon with new beacons.

EDIT: where Ahriman is concerned, what's the point? His ambitions are infinitely larger than what a pardon would gain him... and besides, it's Inquisitor Czevak who knows how to get to the Black Library. All Ahriman's trying to do is catch him so he can steal the information from him.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Well, by that reasoning then, it seems the Imperium can easily build there own astromincans in each solar system. So the Emperor's death won't actually be as catastrophic as many make out. As long as they start building these beacons now in time for the failure of the throne. But we have no way of calculating if that is remotely possible within a reasonable timeframe. So I still say looking at Tau technology 'warp skimming' would be sensible, if only as a contingency plan or intermediary technology. That and it helps secure the East from the Nidz as I already mentioned to free up some resources for the 13th black crusade in the Cadia region, which by your own admission is the single biggest threat. 
As for Ahriman - I would like arguably the most powerful psyker in the galaxy to be part of the team that breaks into the Black Library, and on the contrary he has A LOT to gain from this, since he is striving to understand the nature of Tzeentch and Chaos...The Black library of Chaos is probably the grand prize.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Well, it would be VERY catastrophic - just not totally so. Remember, a single hiccup with the Astronomicon led to thousands of vessels being lost. The Imperium would effectively be crippled (or, at any rate, really slowed down) for however long it took to build a new Astronomicon. It will be interesting to see how and what Guilliman and Ultramar did to get a signal that seemed like that of the Astronomicon.

Where the 13th Black Crusade is concerned, remember... this is all theoretical to begin with.

Where Ahriman is concerned, he has zero credibility to bring to the table - just a lot of power. I'd love to hear contingency plans for figuring out how to keep him in check when he gets in the Black Library. :wink:


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Straken's_Fist said:


> So it would also make sense making an alliance with the Tau: Yes, their empire is tiny in the grand scheme of things, and yes their technology isn't actually much more advanced than the Imperium's, but as I understand it they have a type of interplanetary travel that 'skims the warp' an dis faster-than-light. Yes, slower than warp travel, but it might lead to new discoveries if developed by the Mechanicum and Tau scientists...And it's better than being left with nothing when the psychic choir does eventually go out.


The Tau travel technology is basically a more primitive version of the Imperiums, so an alliance there gains nothing (for everyone except the Tau). In fact it's basically a sneak-peak at what Imperial warp travel will look like once the Astronomicon goes out. 



> Also, their apparent psychic blanking ability could be useful in the fight against Chaos.


The Tau aren't blanks, that's a common misconception. The Tau have a very small warp presence but a blank has either (depending on the strength of the blank) completely zero warp presence or a negative warp presence. The Tau do not demonstrate either ability.



> I'd also grant Ahriman an official pardon, and get him and a bunch of Grey Knights/Inquisitors (Draco etc)/Illuminati to break into the Black library again and steal some more secrets...


1) Why would Ahriman give a rats ass about a pardon? He doesn't believe he's done anything wrong, at least as far as the Imperium's concerned.
2) Giving Ahriman more power is just a very bad idea.


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