# Calling all Bretonnian players!



## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Hi all,

This is a request to those members who play Bretonnians, or know the armybook well enough to help Heresy out a little bit. Before you say "but squeek does anyone even play Bretonnia?", I know we have quite a few Bretonnian players busy questing and helping out distressed damsels (or possibly helping to distress damsels? :wink . I was cunning you see, I started a census! 

I am sure most of you know of the collective project that we have been running for getting on for 5 months now to create a useful resource for new Fantasy players, or existing players that want to try a new army. If not you can find the project thread here - Collective WIP introduction to Fantasy and the final stickied thread here - An Introduction to the Armies of Warhammer.

If you don't know much about them go take a read, I am sure you will agree that it is a worthwhile endeavour and provides an unparalleled insight in to everything about the army and what makes the army worth playing, from the point of view of an experienced and enthusiastic player. So where do you come in you might ask?

Currently we have 15 armies completed (though the Lizardmen one needs updating to 7th Edition), the only armies we are missing from the current range are Beasts of Chaos and Bretonnia. I think everyone would agree it would be fantastic to bring it up to date with all of the existing armies accounted for. It will then act as a one stop reference guide for budding generals, helping to inform and encourage new Fantasy players, which in turn can only be a good thing for the rest of us right?

So what do we need from you? Well as you have probably guessed, the thing that makes these introductions good is that people who know what they are talking about have written them. Hence why I couldn't just write them all myself, I know very little about Bretonnia unfortunately. So first stop is the Collective WIP introduction to Fantasy thread for the format we would like to stick to. Here is the basics of it though:*Fluff - A short intro about the army, some background history and any other non-play related interesting points.
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This doesn't need to be too long, just a little bit about your chosen race/army like who it hates/is friends with, what drives it, how it began, etc.


*Models - A breakdown of the range of models available, and how easy they are to paint and to model.*

Important things might be how old the range is, whether they are all metal or mostly plastic, how easy they are to paint, possibility of conversions. Also try to give a guideline estimate of cost. So lots of metal only models would be an expensive army with limited conversion potential, for example.


*Game Play - A guide to how the army plays and how flexible the army list is as a whole.*

This could include what the general style of the army is (gun lines, cavalry, magic heavy, etc), how competitive it is considered to be at tournaments, is the army book flexible or is there only one viable style. Some writers have chosen to give an indepth breakdown of the unit choices from each section (Core, Special, etc). This is greatly appreciated but is not mandatory.


*Money Saving - How to get more from your chosen army, for less money*

This might include ways to maximise what can be produced from the model sprues, or alternative models for the expensive ones in the range. If possible links for more complex conversions will allow better understanding.


*Summary - General conclusions about the army and any extra points that are useful.*

This should cover any extra points like future release dates, general pros and cons that aren't covered elsewhere, popularity of the army, variations to the standard approach (i.e. themed armies) and any extras that crop up.


*Where To Go Next* - Any army specific resources

Links to army specific forums and web resources are particularly useful here.​If you feel able to offer anything towards the introduction, even if it is just one section or a useful link, please post it. Without your help it is unlikely we will get this introduction done anytime soon as it is an army that none of the existing introduction writers know much about. Any questions just ask, or PM if you prefer.


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

If we are still waiting on this by the weekend i will write it.


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

alas i'm traversing the globe this week... well, not quite the globe.

I can knock out a Bret and new lizard one for you if you like on say... Thursday?


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Sounds good chaps, probably a good idea to post that you have started work on it as and when you do, to save multiple introductions being written!  An updated Lizardmen intro would be fantastic Whizzwang.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Well, i've started on some of it, and will post what I've done so far tomorrow, though it'll take me some time for all of it. Working on the models/tactics/units parts now.


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

Thats cool guys just wanted to make sure we have that final push, good work all.


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

just got back from Notts.

If someone else has started Brettonians I'll concentrate on the newts.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Ok, finsihed some of it, but I think I'm making it a bit too long, so if someone wants to do a hack and slash and edit out about half of it, or add something I forgot about, feel free. I'll start with:

*Models:*

Bretonnians have a nice selection of modern plastic models which will make up the bulk of your army, though their rarer and more specialised units are still mostly metal. They give you a great chance to experienced painters to show off your painting, with individual heraldry and banners, but an easier, army wide style can be done as well, and looks very effective on the battle field. Common themes for them include the Crusades, middle ages/historical or Arthurian looks. 

Knights of the Relm and Knights Errant are your basic troops, and both can be made from the same multi-part plastic kit, a brilliant and easy to put together kit, which also comes with plenty of little extras for customising units, and you’ll have plenty of bits left over to use elsewhere if you like. 

Your other core units, Men At Arms and Bowmen, each have their own modern multi-part plastic kits, and good detail. With all your core units in plastic, creating a basic army is a cheap and easy process. With the plastic Pegasus Knight kit, which is brilliantly easy compared to the older metal one, you can just add in a smattering of characters, and you have everything you need for a decent army.

Questing Knights and Grail Knights have metal kits, which are a bit expensive; however they’re great models with plenty of detail. If you’re looking to do a cheap army, Grail Knights could easily be converted from the plastic Knights kit, though Questing Knights would be somewhat more difficult.

Trebuchets, Grail Reliquaries and mounted Yeomen make up the rest of the range, and all come in metal. Yeomen only come in metal blisters, and are probably not worth the fuss. If you must have them for some reason, finding some other light cavalry and converting them across is probably necessary. The Grail Reliquary and Battle Pilgrims are brilliant looking models, and really look the part, however getting a whole unit of them fast becomes expensive, as extra Pilgrims only come in metal blisters, however Converting extra battle pilgrims from a Men At Arms box is a possibility.

Old and OOP Models: A selection of Bretonnian Knights and Bowmen came with the old 4th edition warhammer boxed set, and many of the models are still around, some second hand. This can be a cheap way to get an army, however I will warn you that the models are quite inferior to the modern plastic kits, and often don’t line up properly one behind the other.

*Game Play*

Bretonnians are predominantly a cavalry force, and their tactics revolve around positioning and getting the charge off correctly. Their charge is all important and breaking or seriously crippling enemies in a single charge is essential. After the charge, Bretonnians usually have weak stats, and will have trouble doing much damage.

Bretonnians have two special rules that separate them from most other armies. Firstly is the Blessing of the Lady, a special rule which gives all your knights a ward save, at the expense of always going second. A nearly army-wide ward save, on top of the otherwise brilliant saves that Bretonnians have make them a hard force to crack. Their second special rule is the Lance formation, where knights are ranked up 3 wide, and still get rank bonuses and everyone on the flanks of the unit can still attack on the charge. This makes for an extremely nasty charge, though they are more vulnerable to flank charges themselves.

*Characters* – Bretonnian Characters are basic human characters, however they can be equipped with a great variety of items and virtues that can add a lot of punch to a unit. One Bretonnian quirk is that you must always have a BSB – this gives a bit of flavour to the army, and you get an extra character slot to make up for it. 

*Magic* – Bretonnians are not a magically inclined force, falling well short of most armies in magic potential. Their basic mages are Damsels, who are limited to the laws of beasts and life, neither of which are particularly advantageous to Bretonnian tactics. Prophetesses, lord level wizards, also have access to the law of the heavens, which is far superior; however getting a spell off is usually difficult when facing any army with decent anti-magic. What they do have however, is great magical defence – and that is crucial to Bretonnians. With the number of spells that can ignore armour, Bretonnians can take horrific casualties from spells, so a decent magical defence is quite important. Damsels give Magic Resistance to any unit they join, so taking a few cheap lvl. 1 damsels and putting them in your blocks of knights gives you a good mix of magic resistance and dispel dice.

*Shooting* – Bretonnians have Bowmen and Trebuchets for ranged combat. Usually shooting is only moderately effective, as bowmen don’t often do much damage, and trebuchets are too random to be relied upon, however harrying your opponent at range especially if they don’t have much to hit back with, can work wonders.
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Overview of units:*

*Knights:* Your basic troops are your knights; they make up the punch of your army, and are why Bretonnians are so effective. Though they are far more expensive than basic troops of any other race, they make up for this in a number of ways. They have a 2+ save, a ward save from the blessing of the lady, and move faster than most armies cavalry and hit like a freight train. The lance formation means that they can bring a decent amount of static combat resolution to a fight, meaning they can easily take on even large blocks of infantry, usually something cavalry has trouble with. Hitting with your knights in concert, to maximise the amount of damage you can do with your charge is important. 

*Knights of the Realm: *Your basic troops, every Bretonnian army needs at least a unit of these guys. They are decent, with a lance on the charge and an extra WS, they can usually dish out some damage. With a high LD of 8, they are pretty reliable troops.

Knights Errant: Cheaper than KotR, and packing very nearly as much of a punch, though against low level troops you’ll be missing that extra WS. The most important thing about Knights Errant is that they are ItP on the charge, meaning they won’t have second thoughts about attacking fear/terror causing enemies, making them very handy. However, this is somewhat dampened by their trade off, which is that if they can charge someone, they have to pass a LD check to prevent it. This makes them somewhat unreliable for your main blocks of knights. 

*Questing Knights:* Questing Knights are slightly more expensive knights, with great weapons instead of a lance. While their LD is the same as KotR, they get to roll 3D6, and choose the lowest 2 for any tests, meaning that they are very reliable, and will stay in a fight for a while, even if outmatched, and their great weapons means that they’ll actually be able to do some damage in an extended fight. The downsides are of course the extra cost, and only having a 3+ amour save (as they have no shield). With their basic attacks being no better than a KotR on the charge, they are often seen as an inferior choice, however in an extended combat they can show their worth, as they don’t lose any power off the charge.
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Grail Knights: *Your Elite. Just look at their stat line, nearly as good as a hero’s, ItP, each of them a champion, and all counting as having magical weapons. These guys will tear just about anything to pieces on the charge, with their two WS5 S6 attacks each. Their one weakness is that they die as easily as any other knight in your army, so you have to protect them somewhat while you get them into position to charge. They make great body guards for a hero/lord or BSB, and a tooled up unit becomes an unstoppable killing machine, with a large static res and great killing potential. Though they are very expensive points wise, a unit in any 2000 point army is a very handy thing.

*Pegasus Knights:* Everyone’s favourite flying cavalry. A flying unit made up of knights is nothing to shake a stick at. Though each knight costs a lot of points, the duties they perform are well worth it, from hunting war machines, and mages to taking out enemy flyers and march-blocking/flanking enemies. They are a great buy for any army, and allows you to counter the biggest threats to Bretonnian armies, war machines and enemy flyers that try to march block you.

Peasants:
*Men At Arms:*
A basic foot soldier, however the Bretonnian version can get kicked around by a goblin. In larger blocks, it can add some weight of numbers to an army, but unless you’re concentrating on a more infantry based army, they’ll usually get left behind by the faster blocks of knights. 

*Grail Reliquary: *Better than MAA, and stubborn to boot, this unit has some potential. However it still gets left behind by knights. It can form a good centre for an infantry heavy army, or as an anchor for a flank.
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Bowmen: *Brilliant guys! With a long range and cheap cost, they’re always useful, even if they won’t do much actual damage. One unit can be a skirmishing unit, which is very handy for screening knights from enemy weapons on the first turn. Having a few units allows you to see how your enemy is setting up his army before you deploy your knights units.

*Trebuchet:* A Stone thrower with extra strength, it can be a great asset, if you can actually hit with it. It’s good for taking on bit beasties, which your knights units might otherwise have trouble with, and can do a lot of damage even to heavy troops.

*Money Saving *
Going for a cheap and basic army, you could conceivably have almost nothing but plastic models, which makes for an easy to assemble, cheap and easy option. Creating and converting more specialised units from basic plastic kits is also possible, for instance grail knights from plastic knights, or a Grail Reliquary from Men-At-Arms. I have even seen a scratch built trebuchet, using spare peasants for crew. However, even using some more expensive metal models, Bretonnians are cheap to collect, because of their large points cost per model, meaning that most armies are small and elite.

*Summary*

Bretonnians are still a 6th edition army, with no hints now about when they will get an update, but they are not really handicapped by it at all. They have a decent range of units they can call upon, though the general theme of a mounted army usually prevails. They can hold their own in tournaments, and good generals can usually get into the top tiers easily. They are a little short of choice, with most units being just being knights knights or knights, but they excel at what they do, and have a great theme to go along with them. A fun army all round. If you love Knights, If you love questing for the holy grail, If you love dictating the battle with superior movement, Bretonnians are for you!

For The Lady!


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Ok, have a bit more time now, I'm working on the last of it, hopefully have it fully done by tomorrow. I might do a bit of editing on in too...


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Seems unecessary now 
but if you need any help then im available


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

How far have we got with these introductions guys? The Brets one looks almost finished so I can move it across as soon as you are happy with it. Is the Lizardmen one in the works, or?


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Can someone who plays Bretonnian's take a quick look at this Intro and finish it off please? Don't really need to say it, but of course there will be handsome amounts of rep splashed about! :wink:

Once this is done the whole Introduction sticky is finished and up to date, so it would be fantastic to get a write up for Bretonnia sorted soon!


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I'll have a look tomorrow. Free day, so it's Warhammer day =)


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

squeek said:


> Can someone who plays Bretonnian's take a quick look at this Intro and finish it off please?



I've yet to play with my Bretonnian army, but I've think I've got a good feeling for them, so if no one minds, I'll have a go at an intro.

Anyway...

Bretonnia is a land of chivalry, where quests and vows define the lives of it's elite and those who serve under them. In contrast to the wealthy advanced cosmopolitan society of the Empire, that of Bretonnia can seem backward and regressive, with feudal divisions firmly seperating lord from peasant. Ruled by their venerable king, the brave Louen Leoncoeur, and devout in the worship of the Lady of the Lake, the Bretonnians are divided into fourteen seperate duchies, each of which is governed by a duke descended from the knights of Gilles Le Breton, the legendary founder of Bretonnia.

Each of these dukes is a powerful ruler in his own right, riding to war atop the noblest and most powerful of steeds. Under them are the Knights of Bretonnia, perhaps the most famed cavalry in the Old World, who form the nobility of Bretonnian society. Each of these knights has been tempered by combat, rising from being a young and fiery Knight Errant, seeking glory, to a wise and experienced Knight of the Realm. For the wealthiest of these Knights no ordinary horse will do, and at great expense they will buy and train a Pegasus to be their steed, ensuring that their wealth and status will be avaliable for all to see through the use of such a powerful beast as their steed.

For some this is not the end, and their devotion to the lady may lead them to take a vow to find the Holy Grail, the most sacred artifact to those who worship the lady, abandoning their possessions and titles to become Questing Knights, riding all over the world in the service of the Lady.

A lucky few will even be granted a vision of the Lady, ascending to become the mysterious and otherworldy Grail Knights, worshipped as supernatural champions of the Lady by the ordinary masses of Bretonnia, their service continuing even in death as their bones become sacred relics to the fanatical pilgrims.

Yet the Knights are not the only warriors of the Lady, many females in noble families serving the lady, and her high priestess, the Fey Enchantress, through service in war as powerful wizards.

At the other end of Bretonnian society are the peasants, eager to serve their lords, whether as an experienced man at arms, a fanatical and unbreakable battle pilgrim, or most commonly as a lethally effective bowmen.

Lying to the West of the Empire, Bretonnia borders the Grey mountains, the kingdom of Estalia, and the great forest of Athel Loren. Consequently Bretonnian armies have fought in many wars, notably the crusades against the Kingdoms of Araby, as well as the Erratry wars against marauding Orc warbands and warherds of the beasts of Chaos. Bretonnian armies have also fought against, and alongside the forces of the Wood Elves, and a few Bretonnian Knights have been guests in their woodland halls.

However perhaps the greatest threats to Bretonnia come from within the cursed province of Mousillion, now without a duke, a cursed land of mutation and treachery, which Bretonnian armies have been called to cleanse many times. So to has the Red Duke of Aquitaine proven to be an unwelcome reminder of the dangers of the world. Once a loyal and virtuous Knight of Bretonnia, cursed with plight of the undead whilst fighting in Araby, the Red Duke and his undead retainers brought great suffering to the land before they were defeated.

Even so Bretonnia is not without its own supernatural heroes, and the most famous of these is the Green Knight who appears as if from nowhere to defend the sacred lands of Bretonnia.

All in all Bretonnia as an army is for the enthusiast of Medieval armies and beliefs, who likes the idea of vast numbers of armoured horsemen riding down the enemy. Developed from Arthurian and othe Medieval tales Bretonnia is perhaps more orthodox fare than other Warhammer armies, but nonetheless a great army to collect and fight with.


Well that's my attempt at the introduction, obviously you can make whatever changes you wish if you decide to use it. If not, then I don't mind, this was fun and interesting to write, and reminded me of why I love Bretonnians.


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

Your last paragraph has a small typo
All in all Bretonnia as an army is for the enthusiast of Medieval armies and beliefs, who likes the idea of vast numbers of armoured horsemen riding down the enemy. Developed from Arthurian and othe Medieval tales Bretonnia is perhaps more orthodox fare than other Warhammer armies, but nonetheless a great army to collect and fight with.

should be 

All in all Bretonnia as an army is for the enthusiast of Medieval armies and beliefs, who likes the idea of vast numbers of armoured horsemen riding down the enemy. Developed from Arthurian and other Medieval tales Bretonnia is perhaps more orthodox fare than other Warhammer armies, but nonetheless a great army to collect and fight with.

But well done!


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