# If you have issues with GW....



## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

Post them up here. this thread is intended as a voice for gamers opinons on what GW is doing wrong. eg. continuous nerfing of codices, core rules.

Please do not mention pricing in this thread. this is meant strictly for rules gripes only. *if you wish to write something, but it has already been mentioned, please write it down and post it up again. the more people we have posting in this thread the better!*
i start this thread with the intention of, when it is done, sending it to GW.

happy complaining!


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

And the new longest thread on Heresy is...

The can of worms has been opened and I for one would be delighted to be the first to jump straight in and start.

For me the biggest one is the recent trend of removing options with Codex's. I mean when the Doctrines came out for IG I was dancing with joy, when it was followed by Traits for SM's I started kissing the ground. Finally something that actually allows players to really personalise their army not only mini wise but also rules wise and do it in a way that would actually greatly affect the way they play. But now with the streamlining of the rules it seams this has been given a kick up the backside and shoved out the back door. Yea sure in Tournaments the same combos would come up again and again but that happens in every army no matter what. The Tournament organiser could just say only 'Codex' armies allowed, no traits', however GW has just gone and scrapped the lot. Codex Chaos Space Marines would be amazing if it had traits but it won't thus removing a lot of the attraction of building a army for me anyway. 

For me streamlining the rules can only be a bad thing as it leads to a general dumbing down of the entire game and the lowering of the standard of play and tatics. At least when you have to much stuff you can cut it on a tempory, game by game, tournament level but when you don't have enough then people start to get tired very fast.

And White Dwarf, the change in tone and content was amazing, literally over night (within the space of about 4 issues) it went from a magazine full of fluff and interesting little twists to the rules to basically a catalogue for new releases with very little actual content in it. The reasons for the change were pretty obvious; new demographic etc but a little bit of loyalty to the players who got the company where it is today would be very nice.

Ok thats me done for a day or two. Next.


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## maximus2467 (Jun 14, 2007)

I've got one, not so much to do with rules more the mini's. it's great that they seem to be making everything plastic but it seems that they've done away with a lot of detail (especially dwarves) and the overall effct is that they look 'plasticky' obviously i know they are plastic but sometimes you can get your little fellas to look actually quite lifelike and now they just look like toys. (THEY ARE NOT TOYS!!)


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## PILGRIMSHOST (Jun 17, 2007)

WHY are ASTARTES the same size as mortal men (minitures), this is not consistant with the literature?

Why is there actually such a small range of choice when it comes to models for any army? Though Space marines are ok in the range, but IG I feel are lacking.

Why does the 'super' glue fail to actually glue- Ive tryed everything? I use other brands now.

Why does some spray paint flake off? A couple years ago I sprayed a Dark Angel heavy plasma gun space marine this colour with a spray and a month ago it was flaking off! It was definatly of its own accord! Then it fell apart- Dont laugh.

Why dont they incorparate forge world models- ok some might not be able to buy these models, but then it could be managed some how, surely?

Why is the old codexs like the original angels of death codex better than the current codexs?

For all their market power they are very slow to produce more assessories.

When they release collecters books, such as the 'Visions of Heresy' volumes compilation, why did they only release 100 of the special edition??? Surely the staff in Notingham are going to have first dibs on this.

And that goes for the rest of their merchantdice, which they are always out of stock!!

Finally, why did they only release a few of the 'limited' edition carry case which it was designed to carry minitures and verchals together- why 'limited' edition??

The list is endless..........


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

*indeed. i would prefer however for this thread to stay reasonably centered around rules and codex releases. i would also prefer it if people could expand on their point, rather than a list of rhectorical questions, which GW will just ignore.*

as for Pilgrinhosts problems i may be able to offer some solutions there; superglue if always the came chemical wherever you buy it from. the fact it may not glue properly could be down to mould lubricant on the pieces, dust on the model; the list goes on. 

most of the models are perfectly fine, although some need a re-sculpt. of course marines are going to ge tthe best as they are the main 40k army. MArines are not bigger than normal men due to moulding restrictions, scales etc. 

the rules for forge world models ccan be found online and also in the imperial armour books, which you can buy from GW stores. 

as for spray paint, that could be for any number or reasons, as with the paint or glue.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

My biggest gripe lately is the fact that they knocked off the Conflicts here in Canada. Sure they are allowing individuals to run 'premiere events' that they will support, but I don't see the real difference. I have a nasty feeling that these events won't be looked at as official and attendance will drop off.


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## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

The new codex's, they totally suck.
The blood angels "codex"
In cities of Death, why can people shoot through walls?
The whole 1" cant charge thread

....what did I forget


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

my gripes - my gripes lie with the contunious over-nerfing of codexes. DA in particular. whilst im not a games designer, i cant help but thing that when GW assessed the codex they weld a little overboard with the reductions, and in return did not boost enough un used units in return. all we got was a cheap pred, ravenwing which imo are too overpriced, and a novelty deathwing assualt. blood angels got the same treatment, and chaos now are biting the nerf stick. why dont GW listen to what their customers want, rather than ignore them and f*** up the game for their loyal customers? 

the third tau codex in 5 years or so was totally unnecessary, there are other armies with loyal fanbases which need the codex and models more. ever wonder why DE dont have many players? coz theyve been waiting ten years for someone to turn a shite codex into something more playable. same with orks, kids buy em coz they look cool, but then look at the book and realise its shit. GW seem to be turning loyal vets away from teh game by thieir money grabbing antics. 

oh yeah, and combat squads which really take the piss even if they are 'fluffy.' I might just want a six man team in a Razorback, not a five man one. I might want to put eight into a Land Raider or Rhino, not ten or five. I might go all fruity and decide to do the eight Assault Terminator tally-ho from a Crusader. Thanks to you’re predilection for the Combat Squads, I can’t. Gee, thanks for making the decision for me, I have trouble counting. 

armouries - what the hell is that wrong with them that they need to be replaced? even a 10 year old can understand how the armoury works. it cuts down on options and restricts the way the game works. that isnt a good thing at all imo.

dont give rending to everything under the sun. how hard can it be to think of an original rule for the death company or the harliquins? you lot are games designers, design good rules rather than re using old ones. keep things consistent across codexes: eg the open topped DA drop pods. 

white dwarf is full of shit nowadays, it has little to none in the way of useful hobby content. look bach three years and see how much it has changed from a useful hobby tool into a novelty for kiddies. GW, look after your vets and your profilts will look after themselves.

this is a good way to end i feel:



> EF Schumacher quoted in a WD article by Jervis Johnson wrote:
> 
> "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction."
> 
> ...


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

How about a regular release schedule and permant format for codecies? Quit changing the format. Get a codex schedule and stick to it through every version of the game. This way players will know when to expect their codecies and they will all have the exact same format.

K.I.S.S. = Keep It SImple Stupid.


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## kelvingreen (May 15, 2007)

Orks. Savage but boring. Bring back the fun.

Genestealer Cults. A *White Dwarf* minidex at the least, please. They're still in the current fluff (in the rulebook even!), so let's have them back in the rules.

More C'Tan. Two is silly, and I don't even play Necrons.

Look after the veteran players. Give them bonus/alternate/trial rules and other ways to expand the game. By all means keep this stuff out of Tournaments if you want, but at least make it available, so that not every Space Marine army (for example) looks exactly the same.


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

Can we answer other people's gripes in this thread, or is it just for complaining?

my only real complaint is about White Dwarf, in that it sucks.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

mainly for complaining bout the rules and codexes. if someone makes innapropriate criticisms they will be edited when the time comes to send it to GW


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## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

Well first of all i have to agree with most of the above comments, however i'd like to ask. Cccp_one, your going to send this to GW, are you actually expecting a response? Fuck sake they started there own web page to ask about these things and had to shut it within a couple of days!

A cynic could say that the reason that GW is doing this it to drive the share price down so the guy's at the top can buy t back from the share holders dirt cheap! A cynic might say. lol


MarzM :mrgreen:


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## Warboss Rustynail (May 18, 2007)

the problem with GW are the codex manly the new ones.
but one thing need to be improved are the ork, they cost more than IG and have a worst armore save aswell as shooting if only they had better armore or shooting i wouldn't mind the extra points.


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Orks aren't meant to be accurate shooters. They're meant as a cc heavy army, whereas the guard is a cc weak, very shooty army.


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## Flam (Feb 7, 2007)

I'd like to chime in with a similar dislike of modern codexes. Back in 2nd Edition, I'd purchase every codex that came out. They were so plump with fiction and options, each book was a really fascinating read. Remember the amazing girth of the original Chaos codex? Nowadays, they're just a list of statistics with a hobby section in the middle. I've seen sheets of quilted toilet paper thicker than the average codex nowadays.

Also, I hate saying "codexes."


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

1 White dwarf is fairly poor.

2 The game has been made more and more balanced to suit tournament play. I couldn't give a toss about balance I want options and fun.

3 In general though I would say GW are doing a superb job of running the hobby overall.


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## ThunderBolt (May 30, 2007)

The quality of WD. there is very little useful content in there any more. a fluff article, or some scenario rules every now and again would make the magazine worth buying again.

Just because you see the same copy and paste lists used over and over again at the UKGT, it doesnt mean that everyone does the same. No need to nerf the game into submission just to stop the powergamers, well, powergaming. 

other than that i echo pretty much everything that has been said here so far.


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## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

I know Ive said this in every post until now but.....Lets storm GW


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Storm it how? See, I favor a more tactical approach, with small, elite, highly trained and equipped teams infiltrating from many different points and meeting inside to achieve their objective, but you may favor a more direct "storm the gates" approach. Either would work in the end, but the site of black helicopters dropping fastroping rangers onto the roof of GW's corporate HQ is a sight to see... :mrgreen: 

I kid, I kid...


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## kelvingreen (May 15, 2007)

Cadian81st said:


> but the site of black helicopters dropping fastroping rangers onto the roof of GW's corporate HQ is a sight to see...


Ah, but GW have the ultimate defence: skimmers can't stop on top of impassable terrain. :wink:


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

No matter, we bring up a bassie and it's difficult terrain before you can say "Nerf!!!"


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## black chaplain (May 14, 2007)

gamesworkshop this is for you!

im' sick of bloody 8 years olds coming in to gamesworkshop, buying every bloody model in the necron or marine range spray painting them black then drybrushing them metal (even the marines) and they know all the rules cos' you dumb down the codicies and rules so stupid little kids can come and play and whine when there monlith gets taken, this is not a playgorund this is a big boys game! 

DAMYOU JERVIS AND YOUR'E STUPID NERF STICK WHEN WILL IT END WHEN!!!!!!!!

and uh yeh.....


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Ok black chaplin, that sort of stuff isn't in any way, shape or form constructive. 

If you have got problems (and this is aimed at everybody) would you please be able to post more than one line and provide reasoning. If, and this is a huge 'if', GW do take even a passing look at this then having things like "the new codex's suck' isn't going to cut it. Think it through, be sensible and be polite. You want to be taken seriously then act like a adult instead of a crazy person.


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## Packing Steel (Jun 5, 2007)

1. In WHFB it continues to bug me that we have reached the 7th edition of the game now and whoever writes the rules STILL does not seem to realise that spears and halberds are anti cavalry weapons, and have the same pros/cons that they do against infantry, spears are great at stopping cavalry charges cold. horses dont like chargig at walls of sharp metal things, and you know what that hook on the back of a halberd is for? ripping knights of their horses. yes yes I am aware this is not a historically based game. the halberd and the spear however are historical weapons which should be used in the same fashion in the game as they would in real life.

2. The over advertising of space marines, yes, we know it was your idea, yes they are groovy, but i am tired of attending 40k tourneys, and fighting all five games against some power armoured gimp with acne like a margharitta. the amount of different imperial armies you can get in 40k is such that you will rarely fight a battle against a non imperial army if yo uare an imperial player yourself. this makes for crap fluff, when would my catachans be fighting ultramarines? they wouldnt unless they were rebels, the maerines wouldnt be, so my blokes would have to be, i dotn want them to be rebels. Lo and behold, no fluff, the battle doesnt make sense, theres no reason for it.

3. as has been said before but I wish to reinforce it, White dwarf, I havent bought one in two years, why I hear you cry? well apart from the fact that to get one would mean sacrificing a potential pack of B&H its naff, its just turned into a catalogue for LoTR and Space marines, even the battle reports arent what they used to be! Its like the guys playing the battle cant even be bothered anymore! even my mates who dont play GW games have started calling it a 'Space Marine Porn mag'

4. Bringing out really good specialist games for about ten minutes then taking them off the shelves. whatever happened to warhammer quest? Manowar? Gorkamorka?(though this was obviously an attempt to double sell necromunda)

I'm sure I have more but this post is geting long and I'm making myself angry. I need to stop before I nip to GW round the corner and burn it down.


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## rokassan (Jan 24, 2007)

I agree, white Dwarf sucks now.Ive been getting it for more than three years and have noticed it offers nothing.No worthwhile battle reports,fluff,alternate rules or practical hobby tips.It just has a bunch of advertisements and prices....its like that big catalog that gives you prices and stock numbers.How about an advanced rule book for veteran players or new players with an IQ over 60 who would like to play a game of chess rather than a game of checkers.


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## black chaplain (May 14, 2007)

sorry bout the post before, im jus so pissed about the fact i cant have one senesible game anymore with out a random 10 year old coming in half way through the game and dropping a dreadnought right next to my hq.

also the new codexes suck i like the armoury it makes you feel like your actually giving the character weapos rather than just upgrading them


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Well, i dont play Dark Angels...But.

I think their nex Codex is horrible. (Im not so sure on the rules)

--But the layout is IMPOSSIBLE!


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## GreatUnclean (Jun 27, 2007)

I havnt read white dwarf in a long long time. Its gotten to the point where i dont even pick it up to flick through in the newsagents anymore. Iv given up hope of them ever putting anything interesting in there. I remember back in the day, there used to be excellent modelling guides and terrain building guides ect. Now you have to search the net for that kind of thing. 

PLus theres the fact that they are clearly just rewriting rules to sell more codexes. Well, they probably have other reasons aswell but lets face it, GWs a company. If you want to play their game you need their rules and if they change the rules even slightly then you gotta buy the new ones to keep playin. I always thought the 3rd edition rules worked well and made the game fun and fair. I havnt even read the new rules coz all im doin now is painting and converting models. Is there really such a massive difference in the rules that couldnt simply be stated in a few white dwarf articals?


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

To be fair, after a while, there are so many errata articles and updates that unless you know where to get them all and have them all, you end up playing with a different set of rules than your opponent. So, a rerelease is necessary every once in a while, just so that all of the updates can be compiled into one, undebateable, final answer tome.


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## stompzilla (Mar 8, 2007)

The old, white dwarf is where i learned to make Terrain and paint to a high standard. I also used to actually look forward to the Battle reports.

This month's is the first for 2 years i've actually bought and that's only because i'm in it! It really has gotten terrible.


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## Iron Warrior Tarn (Jul 16, 2007)

should we stiky this thread? I'm not replying until i see the new chaos codex and the horrific nerfing done to my poor iron warriors


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> I have a few gripes. 

>>1: Dumbing down the rules and dex's, making everything easier and more attractive to new players. Yes, I understand new blood keeps anything alive, but the vets are getting forgotten about.

>>2: White Dwarf, what the hell has happened to it. Battle reports are lame. 4 pages for a whole battle. They should bring back the old style reports, when Fat Bloke was around. The catalouge feel to it is wrong. I get my Argos book for nowt, so why pay for GW catalouge?

>>3: New minis. Not all of them, but some are a fucking insult to gamers. "Buy our spanky new models, they the dogs rocks'. Sorry, but some are just fucking awful. Possessed are the first ones that spring to mind, and the new ones previwed in WD look not much better.

>> The list goes on, but i cant be arsed at the mo. But in short " GW, get a fucking grip. Respect the people who made the company huge, and stop pandering to the newbs wants and needs. Give the old skool a bit of recognition"


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