# VC Troop weapons



## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I'll apologise immediaytely for this thread, as I know that these questions will have been answered already. However, my search-fu has been particularly weak and I can't quite find what I'm after. So, if you'll all bear with me...
First, arming my Skellies. I've gone with HW+S, seeing that this seems to be the consensus that I can find out there in web-land. I'll have 20 of the buggers armed this way, so is this the best way to go or should I mix units of HW+S with units of S+S? Units of 20 seem a good start, so should I start this way, or aim for much larger units? Oh, and Full Command or not?
Second, GG. I've seen GW are a well-liked option, so what do we think? Again, I'll probably go with a unit of 10 (my theme is slowly evolving, so I'm not sure where it'll end up). Full Command for these chaps as well? 
If re-iterating this stuff is too boring, I'd appreciate a link to where it can be found, then I'll close the thread and get out of your hair!

Cheers, Heretics

GFP


----------



## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

With your Skellies the HWS option is a pretty good one as to be honest they're unlikely not beat a great deal of things in combat. Ideally I'd assume you'd want a much bigger unit eventually (40+) to make a nice large tarpit for the enemy to get stuck down in. For the command group I'd always take Musician and Standard in each of my units (although I am a Night Goblin and Bretonnian player so I like the benefts) with a unit champion they're useful to have around incase you have a necromancer in the unit and you get challenged, you have a willing sacrifice ready and waiting to be smashed to bone shards.

Grave Guard are a different option, I like the Great weapon option as you are more then likely to be striking last anyway so you may as well hit hard when you do strike. Deffinately go full command on this unit as they're typically a character bunker so champ for the same reasons as above.

Although a VC player will likely tell me differently now


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

For the Grave Guard getting Banner of the Barrows is very important, it means you'll hit most things on 3's and 2's if they fluff they're Fear test. If you have that then Great Weapons all the way to do some real damage when they swing.


----------



## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Grave guard need the great weapons to deal with the higher armour save and tougher units. Killing blow only works on infantry models and normal cav (includcing characters) and only on 6"s. It is nice but not enough to be reliable and effective against units with high armour saves and greater toughness. The banner of barrows ensures greater numbers of hits and, thus, more chances at killing blow and wounds, but you still want to increase the chance of wounding and make those wounds count. 

The drawback of this configuration is that GW's strike last, so a corpse cart in range hit with an augment gives ASF to the unit, which will offset ASL. For example, when I play hydras in a dark elf army against grave guard horde, without the corpse cart augment, I'll charge two hydras into the unit and get off per hydra 6 beastmaster attacks with hatred at WS4 S3 AP plus per 7 hydra attacks at WS4 S5 with hatred plus a breath weapon (often 2D6 hits at S5 based on the number of wounds) before the grave guard get to hit back. That will average a total of 18.8333 wounds on the grave guard. If the grave guard unit started with a 30 model horde, then it will only get back 10 attacks (only four in the front rank can target one of the hydras leaving two in the front rank unable to fight and two in the second rank to attack), hitting on 3's, wounding on 3's, but with 50% stopped by regen. The two hydars will then each get an average of 7 S5 thunderstomps in return to kill on average another 4.67 kills, 9.33 total. Thus, the hydras will kill an average of 28 models and take, in return an average of 1.11 wounds per hydra and the GG unit wil easily pop. Even if a great vamp is in the unit and gets a few more wounds on one of the the hydras, the unit will likely pop and take the character with it. Even if the unit had 40 models, the initial wounds will cut the number of attacks on the hydras to approximately 9 per hydra and the hydras' thunderstomp attacks will cause the GG unit to crumble down to a few models at most and more likely completely crumble. On the other hand, if the GG get to avoid the ASL with the corpse cart augment, then they will hit before the hydra (I2 for hydra comapred with I3 for GG) and get wounds on the hydra with far more attacks in rank (12 per hydra translating into 2.67 wounds per hydra). That will put wounds on each hydra before it can use its breeath weapon, which reduces the strength of the breath weapon (the breath weapon has a strength equal to the number of wounds on the hydra) and gives you an outside chance (perhaps with a w king or vamp character) to kill a hydra before it can attack with its 7 cc attacks, breath weapon, and thunderstomp and better chance of saving the unit by causing more wounds and suffering fewer wounds (at least the breath weapon attacks will be substantially less effective (2D6 S3 breath weapon hits cause only 1.55 wounds as compared with 4.33 at S5).


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

If you get your Grave Guard double charged by War Hyrdas you deserve to lose.


----------



## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Not much choice if you run a GG horde and the dark elf army has a lot of drops. Some of your redirection/interference units (bat swarms and spirit hosts) are not wide enough and can be run around or tied up by dark elf chaff and by-passed by hydras and hydras (with flaming breath weapons) can deal with crypt horrors and some other stuff one might throw at them. The GG horde is kind of out front and center. Also, the hydra often can just tear through the chaff and get in front of the grave guard (even if the hydra is hit in the flank the ACR differential favors the hydra).


----------



## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

When it comes to GG, if I stick a hitty-Vamp in there with them, or even a Wight King (again, this sort-of depends on my theme), what is the best, smallest , optimum number? FC, GW, Banner of the Barrows (is that the one?); then can I stick at 15,20, (at least as a starting point?).

GFP


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

With GW I would go for the Smallest number being 23 (so 24 with the Character), you need to be able to take some hits before you get to strike. But with the investment of the Banner of the Barrows as well then I would probably take more to get more value from it.


----------



## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

As I'm going to be getting to the mid-20s to make them well 'ard, do you reckon that going for the full Horde is a bit of overkill? I can see it being a scary unit to fight, but expensive and avoidable; so, I suppose, what I'm really asking is how I'd go about getting the most bang for my buck.
I envisage running a unit of Skellies in front, or at least placed to block off charges I don't want. Then, if I get it right, I run the GG into an already tarpitted unit. Maybe I'll raise some zombies on a flank, or somesuch (attendant Bat Swarms/Spirit Hosts), as well. If this makes sense, would I then be best using this GG unit to go head-to-head with the enemy's hard arse units, or use them to mince up the weaker units in a quest for VP?

GFP


----------



## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

I wouldn't go Horde with them to be honest if you're using them for this role, 6-7 wide and at least 5 ranks 6 is better then the unit can do both and can continue to do both (with magical assistance) for most the game

Stick the cart near them so they get to ignore ASL and hit at initiative instead.

So I would start them as 20 (or proxy) at the moment and see how you like them in your games, VC good a fair amount of good hammer units


----------

