# Commissars



## pchandler43 (Nov 28, 2008)

At what point is it worth it to get one?

1000points? 1500?

What sort of gear do you use for them?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Remember guys, only post army lists in the army list sections. Army specific questions are usually better posted in Tactics.

Katie D


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## Morgal (Sep 26, 2007)

I'd say never. 
they cost almost as much as a 10 man squad, I'd almost always rather have 10 extra bodies. 

He also forces the unit to take extra wounds if they fail combat. Why not let me fall back and hope they make an iron D roll. Or if they are wiped...who cares do we really expect most guard units to last multiple turns in combat vs anything ment to be scary in combat?

Even without iron D your spending 50+ points to improve the leadership of a unit worth....just over 50 points. why not just take another unit? more fire power, more wounds and well even if you fail aleadership test who cares you still have the other unit. i mean oo 1 mor epoint of leader ship...

that without counting the fact they kill your own officers/troops.

If you really want, use a special character or somethng from another codex. they are far better.

For example a cannones with a book of st lucious takes what? 55 points but you get a better unit in power armour. can join any unit with out needing some special rule and affects everything within 6". Has leader ship 10 that will never be modified so your conscripts will nver suffer an effective leadership 5 after lossing combat then taking wounds because they "auto passed".

I love the idea behind them but man they are expensive. also some people but em in lots of squads because without independent commisars doctren you have to... so for every 3 commisars you can get a leman russ. for 2 you could get a hell hound....

I can't see them ever being viable. Even at 10 points i would question them.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Morgal said:


> I can't see them ever being viable. Even at 10 points i would question them.


Says the guy with a Commissar for an avatar. :grin:


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Morgal said:


> Even without iron D your spending 50+ points to improve the leadership of a unit worth....just over 50 points. why not just take another unit? more fire power, more wounds and well even if you fail aleadership test who cares you still have the other unit. i mean oo 1 mor epoint of leader ship....


Yes. If in doubt, buy more guns.



Morgal said:


> I love the idea behind them but man they are expensive. also some people but em in lots of squads because without independent commisars doctren you have to... so for every 3 commisars you can get a leman russ. for 2 you could get a hell hound....
> 
> I can't see them ever being viable. Even at 10 points i would question them.


Again, yes. He doesn't really do anything. You see 150 orks approaching and you have a bloke who contributes in no way, other than to shoot your own guys if they run away. You *want* your guys to run away so you can carry on shooting the orks. You don't want some idiot with a lasgun remaining in combat with a unit of 25 slugga boyz or a lash daemon prince, ensuring that they are free to carry on into the rest of your lines next turn.

Close combat blocks line of sight. Dead IG do not. Therefore, it is preferable that your guys run away and get killed than remain in CC... and get killed.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

I love Commissars. They raise mediocre leadership to good leadership when attached to a command squad. Plus they have the ability to buy officer gear, having the same stats (minus leadership) as a SO. For 40 points, you get an extra officer basically.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

there worth it at all pts levels for the only reason that matters, the models are coooooool
and 45pts for that extra LD, and another power weapon and a cool model really isn't going to make a dent in your points totals


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## Morgal (Sep 26, 2007)

An officer for that many points comes with the officer special rule and affects units within 12".
also he comes with 4 other guys!


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm agreeing with Stella here. It's a badass model. If you make your command squads counter-assaulters, he's a great addition.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Morgal said:


> An officer for that many points comes with the officer special rule and affects units within 12".
> also he comes with 4 other guys!


yeah.....but he ain't *a* Commissar, someone cooler than every space marine in existence.....actually considering marine are no longer cool thats not saying much, but you get the point, he would be cooler if marines were still cool.....actually no that would make him super cool cus marines ain't anymore.....my head hurts


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Stella Cadente said:


> yeah.....but he ain't *a* Commissar, someone cooler than every space marine in existence.....actually considering marine are no longer cool thats not saying much, but you get the point, he would be cooler if marines were still cool.....actually no that would make him super cool cus marines ain't anymore.....my head hurts


Sure, but I think it's pretty obvious that the topic at hand isn't "Are Commissars cool?" It's "Are Commissars worth their points from a competitive point of view and if so, at what point level?"

Really, I'm happy that you're willing to include models in your army regardless of effectiveness because you think that their fluff and models are cool. But please, if you're just going to suggest that people do things because they're cool rather than giving them reasons that they're actually looking for, spare everyone and don't post at all.


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## shaman_stig (Oct 2, 2008)

ive just started a gaurd army my second sold my 1st to buy weed (silly silly me) at the moment im just at 1600 points and in the games ive played my commisar isnt doing me any favours its best to let gaurdsmen run as some one said b4 you cant shoot through combat i think in apoc i might take them just for extra power weapons but id rather have the numbers


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## Trigger (Mar 12, 2008)

I always take one or two. A commisar with a powerfist makes a great addition to any squad. One of the best things they do is holding the unit as a 'speed bump'. Anything to automatically pass break tests is a good thing for guard


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Katie Drake said:


> Sure, but I think it's pretty obvious that the topic at hand isn't "Are Commissars cool?" It's "Are Commissars worth their points from a competitive point of view and if so, at what point level?"
> 
> Really, I'm happy that you're willing to include models in your army regardless of effectiveness because you think that their fluff and models are cool. But please, if you're just going to suggest that people do things because they're cool rather than giving them reasons that they're actually looking for, spare everyone and don't post at all.


alright then

are they worth it in any points value game?
yes, what else you gonna spend 40pts on?
are they competitive?
whos cares that wasn't in the question


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Stella Cadente said:


> are they competitive?
> whos cares that wasn't in the question


Well, usually when someone asks if a unit is "worth it" they're asking if the unit would be a positive contribution to the army for its points. So yes, it was in the question.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

haha, nice one katie :grin:
Okay, back to the question. If the squad autopasses the Ld test for combat, they lose more models and you can't shoot at the enemy unit. Better to let them run and be done with it. Unless they are independent they have to go in your command squad, so you can potentialy lose the Leadership rule....which is NOT a good thing. Sure he can take a Powerfist, about the only good thing he can do. Make him Idependent and shove him in a guard squad w/ CCW or Ogryns and he might do something. If you want a counter assualt unit, get some allies.


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

Dont use them, but buy them and wait for the 5th ed codex. The way I see it they are a burden to have right now with the whole if you auto pass your ****ed up the bunghole rule. If they dont want every guard player to hate them GW will make comisars better or cheeper. Right now the best way to use them is in a squad of him and Hardened Vets, the vets have pistol/CCweapon and the sarge and Comisar both have power fist/Weapon. It sucks up points but it can be so fun. The trick is to make sure they are the ones charging and have a higher init if posible, 30 attacks! 4 Power weapons! OMFG! my Orks just got raped!, that is assuming we are not talking a full 30 mob, more like 15. Without Nobs.(EQUIVALENT) And assuming the non power cadys are at least getting a 50% hit-wound/Attack ratio(Generous I know). Assuming that works oout you have the potential of taking out a squad or 2 without casualties. 
That said, its a crazy Idea and should ony be attempted if you are verry lucky, verry good at pulling things off, or are plaing against a dumb player. 
My final verdict: Not worth it at the present time.
Wow I rambled on that one!


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## comrade (Jun 30, 2008)

well.. positives:

1. Not IC so can't be targeted in CC, so hidden powerfist (unless you take the inde commie doc)

2. Squad will never break from combat. ever.

3. They have 2 wounds, and aren't an independent charc.

4. They look cool as hell.

Negatives:

1. Sort of Expensive.

2. Can shoot a important officer/psycher.


Comrades synopsis: Commissars are cool as hell.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Having a squad not run away is a con. Enemy charges, instead of running you stay, your turn the enemy squad wipes your squad out and the enemy squad is free during their next turn. If the squad ran you could pump the other squad full of firepower.


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## comrade (Jun 30, 2008)

depends on if that squad thats not running is a 50 man conscript unit and is the only thing holding your left flank, or is tying up that ubber bad ass CC monster.

Also.. it will never break from shooting casualties either.


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## Triangulum (Jul 15, 2008)

I think tooling them up enough so as you can actually expect them to fight makes them not worth the point value, on the other hand getting ld 9 or 10 is worth 40 pts especially when you have so many units that will be taking morale checks from enemy shooting, etc and probably voxes to make that sr. officer important. It might just be me, but I keep my HQ squad super low points give it a mastervox and commissar and stick it behind terrain just so that I have decent Ld. the whole game and since its on the vox, he doesnt get shot if someone fails a test.


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## don_mondo (Jan 28, 2007)

Are Commissars worth it?

IMO, no.
Pros:
1. Not IC, so cannot be specifically targetted in hth. Course, IG officers now have the same status, since they're retinue is a retinue and they count as upgrade characters until the squad is gone. But yeah, they can be a hidden ST 6 powerfist/ST 3 power weapon. 

2. Assuming he's in a Command squad, +1 Leadership boost for units within 12" of the officer. Note that the +1 boosted LD does NOT go down the vox (see the IG FAQ).

Cons:
1. Not IC, but they are a unique model, so you will have to allocate wounds to them if the unit receives enough wounds. And those wounds cannot roll over onto the squad. 

2. Cost. A well-equipped Commissar runs as much as a squad with a heavy weapon. I'd rather have more guns.

3. Unit allocation. Assuming advisor Commissars, you are limited on where the Comm can go. 1st one MUST go to your HQ Command Platoon Command squad. Then you go to Infantry Platoon Command squads. Finally, depending on your army composition, you can get them into those other units, like the Infantry squads or Armored Fist squads. SO is it worth it to buy the 1, 2, 3, or even 4 Commissars you'll need to get one into that non-Command squad? Goes back to cost, that's how many guys with guns I can't take? Also note that they cannot be attached to certain units, like Ogryn, etc. Only those units listed in teh Advisors grey box can have them, unless you use up a Doctrine slot and spend even more points on them to make them Independent.

4. Summary Execution. Sorry, but this is nothing but a drawback now. Let's take that example someone mentioned, the Conscripts with an Indy Comm (who can be picked out in combat and as an IC, must pile in first and try to get into btb with the enemy). They get assaulted and lose, fail their -7 Leadership test, the Commissar does a summary execution and pops Joe Trooper. The unit will now take 7 more wounds due to No Retreat, and stick around to fight another round. Second round of combat, now under the Commissar's leadership, they lose again, we'll say only by 5, and now they fail their Morale again. Ooops, already used the summary execution (after all, he's leading the squad now, and he's not gonna shoot himself), can't do it again, so it's run away time, leaving the uber-assault unit free to move and assault again during his turn. For those who keep saying "never run away", wrong, it's won't run away for one player turn, after that, they can and will run. I'd much rather run away the turn he assaults and shoot them down after my unit flees.


So bottom line.
No, Commissars are not currently worth it, regardless of how cool they look. But I keep hoping, still have 15-20 of them, so maybe in the next codex............................


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## don_mondo (Jan 28, 2007)

Triangulum said:


> I think tooling them up enough so as you can actually expect them to fight makes them not worth the point value, on the other hand getting ld 9 or 10 is worth 40 pts especially when you have so many units that will be taking morale checks from enemy shooting, etc and probably voxes to make that sr. officer important. It might just be me, but I keep my HQ squad super low points give it a mastervox and commissar and stick it behind terrain just so that I have decent Ld. the whole game and since its on the vox, he doesnt get shot if someone fails a test.


I pointed this out in my post just now but it's kinda buried, so I thought I'd address it directly. 

The +1 LD boost from the Commissar does not work on the vox, check out the IG FAQ. So you're only getting a LD 8 in the circumstance you describe.


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## Triangulum (Jul 15, 2008)

I conceed the point, I was working off of the 4th edition FAQ



Independently- THAT SUCKS ASS, so the guard can never get ld 10 without the commissar in the damn squad? 

Yeah they totally are not worth it anymore. I vote with the drop them from the list crowd.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Triangulum said:


> I vote with the drop them from the list crowd.


sometimes its a good thing GW don't give a poop what there customers say :biggrin:


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## pchandler43 (Nov 28, 2008)

Ok so what about this;

having a commissar attatched to a hardened vet kasrkin squad. Worth it? I dont have the codex infront of me (4th ed) so I cant get the vet rules


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