# Best tau units?



## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

What's better?
A crisis team or a riptide
A razor shark or a sunshark
A hammerhead railgun or a ion cannon
Fireblade or darkstrider
Whats the best systems?


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Buy the codex and see what works for you?

Or, read the advice and reasoning being given in the army lists section?


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## EmbraCraig (Jan 19, 2009)

The answer to all of those questions without any context is "It depends what you're trying to do".


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## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Honestly, Vetock did a good job at making all of the units at least somewhat viable. Even Vespids could be worth taking now (over other Fast Attack, maybe not, but they are not downright horrible anymore).

Ask your friends if you can proxy models to get a feel for them and if they work out, go out and buy them.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

My initial disappointment is the Sniper Drone Team. They got gimped guns, albeit a lot higher BS, but most of all they stayed as Heavy Support.
They will see very very sparse play time as HS. Skyray/Hammerhead/XV88s will eat those slots for breakfast.

If they would have become like the IG heavy weapon units, with some 1 for 1 FW unit requirement or something, it would have been both fluffy and cool and something folks put on the boards. Now its neither


Other then that things look playable, even though both Kroot and Vespids looks to be on thin ice imo...


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Gun Drone Squadrons. The big shock of the codex for me. T4 with 2 twin linked carbine shots and max squad size is 12. You can even take 12 markerlight drones and join them to a BS5 independent character to replace a Pathfinder squad. T4 and 4+ save for almost the same cost is better afterall, just for lighting targets.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

The awesome thing is, There aren't many shit-tastic unit in the codex.
Aun'va & Aun'shi are the only two that spring to mind; everything else is varying degrees of good to brilliant.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> The awesome thing is, There aren't many shit-tastic unit in the codex.
> Aun'va & Aun'shi are the only two that spring to mind; everything else is varying degrees of good to brilliant.


Kroot, kinda. They got worse IMO.

And the flyers aren't too hot. Especially the bomber. And the Riptide is a trap, sure he has T6 and 5 wounds, but he'll wound himself a lot when trying to do something slightly interesting.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> And the Riptide is a trap, sure he has T6 and 5 wounds, but he'll wound himself a lot when trying to do something slightly interesting.


Then don't bother with the nova reactor. You only risk hurting it if you choose to use the reactor; that fucker is more than capable of going games without it. (And if your using him for anti flier as many are, than your taking the accelerator and do not want the nova charge.)


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Kroot, kinda. They got worse IMO.
> 
> And the flyers aren't too hot. Especially the bomber. And the Riptide is a trap, sure he has T6 and 5 wounds, but he'll wound himself a lot when trying to do something slightly interesting.


The fliers are ok, not amazing, but definately usable. I find it ironic that the bomber is a better fighter, and the fighter is a better bomber. 

I'd say the kroot are pretty good. A kroot blob with an ethereal has some pretty good shooting, with an ADL you have a lots of scoring bodies with a decent cover save to sit on a home objective.


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## Insanity (Oct 25, 2011)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> The fliers are ok, not amazing, but definately usable. I find it ironic that the bomber is a better fighter, and the fighter is a better bomber.


How so exactly? i was conflicted and built the fighter, but since i don't have the codex I wasn't sure what i wanted


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Insanity said:


> How so exactly? i was conflicted and built the fighter, but since i don't have the codex I wasn't sure what i wanted


Seems like a bad choice to be building models and not knowing the rules yet.

As for your initial post:


kiro the avenger! said:


> What's better?
> A crisis team or a riptide
> Crisis Team
> 
> ...


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

The guy above answered most of your bullet points, but got this one "wrong":



kiro the avenger! said:


> Fireblade or darkstrider


Both. A fireblade in a Fire Warrior team next to a Pathfinder squad with Darkstrider...

Sure, you will be clogging all your HQ up on one flank, but look at the synergy. Your pathfinders need protection, and that's what they get, in a VERY cost effective way. Just make sure the squads are no more than 6" apart, and watch them perform.

If you're adventurous, put a Gun Drone squad behind them to add more close proximity assistance.

You know your pathfinders will be the enemy's first target, so you need to always protect them, but not in a way that will be too expensive.


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> The guy above answered most of your bullet points, but got this one "wrong":
> 
> 
> 
> Both. A fireblade in a Fire Warrior team next to a Pathfinder squad with Darkstrider...


Sir I did not answer wrong... I answered the question as it was given. He asked for one OR the other. That to me says IF I had to choose the one that can work the best on his own in a tau army which would it be. There was never an option to choose both. Yes you have a valid argument but you are not answering his question.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

By best system I meant support system- but it's definatly 40k all the way!
So are they fliers necessary at all?, or will I be better of with a crisis tram or whatever?
I'm asking this as I can only play at my flgs so I can't proxy at want to know I'm buying legitamat units and not wasting money


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## HOGGLORD (Jan 25, 2012)

The fireblade's powers are really useful, are they area effect (within 6'' or 12'') or do they only apply when he's in a squad. I can imagine having a huge volley line of fire warriors.

Btw, is Shadowsun any good/different now? I'm considering getting/converting her, but I want to know that its worth the effort.

I know this is slightly off topic, but does the Fireblade have access to a carbine or can he only get a pulse rifle?


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Shadow suns better now but still not that viable imo, she can join units now but she's the same really, and I don't actually know about the fireblade but I'm pretty sure he's a pulse rifle only


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## TAU4298 (Apr 20, 2008)

HOGGLORD said:


> The fireblade's powers are really useful, are they area effect (within 6'' or 12'') or do they only apply when he's in a squad. I can imagine having a huge volley line of fire warriors.
> 
> I know this is slightly off topic, but does the Fireblade have access to a carbine or can he only get a pulse rifle?


Well Kiro answered one part to your question so I'll answer the other it only effects his unit.

But if you want to augment multiple units shooting look to a ethereal, but only at half range.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

The Fireblade, imho, is an amazing cheap HQ that is great at what he does; buff Fire Warriors.

Basically what your points get you is double the firepower out of large blocks of gunline goodness. He can't take Support Systems, which is a pity, but you can throw additional drones in along with the ones that the squad gets. Volley Fire is just plain amazing, I feel. He also has Split Fire, negating the need for a Shas'ui with the TL/ML equipment (Or you can take both and have even more ML tokens on the board).

Also, something to note with the Riptide? If you have the points and you're really worried about the Nova Reactor... the Stim Injector should still give you the FNP save on the overheats.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

It seems like a fireblade is better than dark strider as far as firewarriors go, but again, are the tau flyers viable and what should I take in their place if not?

Edit: my flgs does not field much anti air- only a few quad gins in the odd list that I know of, just a thought


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

I'm going to my flgs store and need to know wether or not I should bother with the sun shark


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

I bought a fire warrior box and a battle suit to be safe, so should I buy a sunshark next or something to fill it's ~160 odd points gap?


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

kiro the avenger! said:


> I bought a fire warrior box and a battle suit to be safe, so should I buy a sunshark next or something to fill it's ~160 odd points gap?


160 points? 4 Piranhas. (I assume you already have 2 full pathfinder teams)


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

It's a 1250 list so I couldn't fit them In and I thought that because my crisis teams each have 2 marker drones, I left pathfinders out, and I REALLY don't like light skimmers, I find them too flimsy and vastly lacking in punch, I think a team of broadsides will beat piranhas as they are tougher and hit harder


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Couldn't fit Pathfinders in? Couldn't FIT pathfinders? I don't think any list without pathfinders can do well at all, except for very small games. You said you have 160 points to spare! And you have no pathfinders?? Then you don't have points to spare and you know exactly what you need k:


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

But I did say that I didn't particularly want pathfinders as I felt that the crisis teams provided their own support and the points were origanaly filled by a sunshark which I have been told are meh now


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

kiro the avenger! said:


> But I did say that I didn't particularly want pathfinders


I was telling you what you need, regardless. You can cross your arms and shut your ears to that if you want. What I don't understand is why you bother to ask for advice in the first place, you've never actually used any advice anyone has ever given to you, you're just going to end up choosing something bizarre anyway.

Playing Tau without Pathfinders is like taking a dump without toilet paper, you may not be prevented from doing the job, but you're going to make a mess and it won't be fun.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

I must say, you seem to have the mentality of a 12 year-old when it comes to taking advice.

You've posted a thread called 'Best Tau Units?'... I would imagine because like many other players, you've noticed that the Tau have a new codex and an army update. Thus, consequently, would like to get up to speed with them quickly.

You clearly have an obsession with the SunShark. You want to know what to do with ~160 points? The very firm suggestion of Piranhas was given to you. No? Not good enough? You think Broadsides would do a better job instead?

Why did you even ask for opinions in the first place?

No pathfinder/Markerlight drone Squadrons? You are aware, to the tiniest degree, how the Tau army works right?

I'm all for people posting questions etc, but you have a history of doing so then completely ignoring anything everyone has to say.
If you do not want our collective advice, don't ask for it.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Orochi said:


> I must say, you seem to have the mentality of a 12 year-old when it comes to taking advice.


This might be because, if memory serves, Kiro is around the ages of 12 and 16.



Orochi said:


> You clearly have an obsession with the SunShark.


Personally it doesn't come off that way. In my first new Tau list I included a razorshark and was initially hesitant to remove it at first, but eventually did. It can easily be part of new unit syndrome, though the argument against the piranha's is a little weak.



Orochi said:


> The very firm suggestion of Piranhas was given to you. No? Not good enough? You think Broadsides would do a better job instead?


To be perfectly fair, Handkerchief did say piranha's if the other two slots were dedicated to pathfinders; its very likely he would not have made that suggestion at all if he had known there were no pathfinders and would have then proceeded to respond with his drivel of you must have pathfinders.



Orochi said:


> Why did you even ask for opinions in the first place?


Sometimes people do it to see how close their own idea's/thoughts are to the general consensus. And when not, they probe to see if they haven't come up with something better or equally viable.



Orochi said:


> No pathfinder/Markerlight drone Squadrons? You are aware, to the tiniest degree, how the Tau army works right?


Last I checked there were no longer any required units that had to be taken in a Tau army with this new codex. So it really is a play with what you want, in the bounds of the force organization chart and point limit.

Like other armies, you can easily play Tau in a number of different fashions. From largely all static, to no vehicles, to vehicle heavy, to highly mobile, to a hybrid of several. Not every army is going to include the same units, that road leads to boring mono-builds.



MetalHandkerchief said:


> I was telling you what you need, regardless.


And where the hell do you get off thinking you need to tell anyone what they need to take in their army? By all means suggest, but Kiro has now made it clear that he does not want to include them (initially he did not, now he has.)



MetalHandkerchief said:


> You can cross your arms and shut your ears to that if you want.


My my, sounds like the pot calling the kettle black here.



MetalHandkerchief said:


> What I don't understand is why you bother to ask for advice in the first place, you've never actually used any advice anyone has ever given to you, you're just going to end up choosing something bizarre anyway.


First, I'm pretty sure your wrong about that initial bit, and second, whats wrong with choosing something different? All the options haven't been explored yet after all.



MetalHandkerchief said:


> Playing Tau without Pathfinders is like taking a dump without toilet paper, you may not be prevented from doing the job, but you're going to make a mess and it won't be fun.


You know what, can I get your thoughts on my 1850 list?

Personally I think that comment is so off kilter its not even funny; markerlights are good, especially considering the loss of other gear to boost BS, but they are by no means an absolute must in every army.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

For the record, I'm 14 and was playing tau for ~ 1.5 years before 6th before I took a detour to my blood angels for a change
And I think I gave a legitimate reason for turning down pirañas, *I* feel they are too weak and lack fire power. When I have seen them used they are either blown up turn 1, or move up and get blown up turn 2, if you have seen otherwise, then that's fine but I'm speaking from my experience here.

And turning down pathfinders, again I feel like my crisis teams can provide enough marker light support for themselves as I don't feel the need to have my enemies lit up like a Christmas tree. And I feel I could do better than pathfinders. Also I did not mean to flat out refuse pathfinders, mearly provide a counter argument so as to challenge there 'toilet paper' like qualities. And I did very well with my old tau with out single marker light in sight.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

kiro the avenger! said:


> And turning down pathfinders, again I feel like my crisis teams can provide enough marker light support for themselves as I don't feel the need to have my enemies lit up like a Christmas tree. And I feel I could do better than pathfinders. Also I did not mean to flat out refuse pathfinders, mearly provide a counter argument so as to challenge there 'toilet paper' like qualities. And I did very well with my old tau with out single marker light in sight.


How exactly are your crisis teams providing their own markerlight support? Marker drones don't have networked MLs, so at least one of your teams must be missing out on ML support.

If you find pathfinders too weak, maybe just invest in some Marker drone squadrons. Then all you suits can benefit from the ML hits.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to come off as an arse. Just I fail to see the point of asking for help then spurning the advice for ideas of your own which you had in advance.

Meh, perhaps I'm just reading too much into it.


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## LuLzForTheLuLzGoD (Apr 3, 2010)

Orochi said:


> Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to come off as an arse. Just I fail to see the point of asking for help then spurning the advice for ideas of your own which you had in advance.
> 
> Meh, perhaps I'm just reading too much into it.


It does come off a little "I don't want anything you've suggested" to me. It's the internet though so we interpret it how we want to I suppose.

If you're hating pathfinders then the drone commander is for you. Fast, more durable and more accurate.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Double checked my codex and it appears I miss read the marker drone entry and they don't have networked marker lights as I first though, so im sorry and pathfinders do seem like a very tantalising option, next to a marker drone squad. And I by no means mean to simply turn down any advice, simply give my view on it.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Okay, I've made a new taking your guys advice in mind, I think it looks good but any help is still welcome


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

This has nothing to do with the markerlight but...

I read that kroot are now deemed useless. I'm not too sure... A medium sized krootsquad with scout in reserves and a hound (giving them accute senses, allowing them to reroll the board edge they arrive on) has a 88% chance of coming on the table-edge of your choice I think. 

I believe that's something worth a mention for an army that CAN end up being a bit gunline-ish (at least the scoring firewarriors don't have a tendancy to move forward). They could end up being good mid-field objective holders that way for a more than reasonable cost.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

@elmir, it's an intestine point that I never thought about, but kroot seem very flimsy and don't perform what I think should be there role- providing combat support for the tau, rather than stealing a sniper drones job.


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

I don't think you can see kroot in that light anymore. Vettock seems to have made a very deliberate choice to have Tau not have any close combat units of their own (there is ofcourse always allies). 

So kroot have now moved to being a shooty, more "bushwacking"/capping unit. Don't forget, the Tau have got some VERY nice shooty/killy toys already (but very limited in troops choices)... But at the end of the day, 5/6 of your standard missions will be won with objectives. 6th is a very different beast to 5th that way. So haveing acces to a cheap unit that can outflank (and do so with very high predictability as to where they show up) AND STILL SCORE is definatly an ace up the sleeve of a cunning commander. 

Also, at 65p for a unit with 11 bodies, stealth in forests, move through cover and being able to still go to ground if they are being shot at, will compensate for their flimsy stats (provided you are not playing on an empty football field ofcourse). Great "filler" unit if you have a few points to spare if you ask me.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

elmir said:


> I don't think you can see kroot in that light anymore. Vettock seems to have made a very deliberate choice to have Tau not have any close combat units of their own (there is ofcourse always allies).
> 
> So kroot have now moved to being a shooty, more "bushwacking"/capping unit. Don't forget, the Tau have got some VERY nice shooty/killy toys already (but very limited in troops choices)... But at the end of the day, 5/6 of your standard missions will be won with objectives. 6th is a very different beast to 5th that way. So haveing acces to a cheap unit that can outflank (and do so with very high predictability as to where they show up) AND STILL SCORE is definatly an ace up the sleeve of a cunning commander.
> 
> Also, at 65p for a unit with 11 bodies, stealth in forests, move through cover and being able to still go to ground if they are being shot at, will compensate for their flimsy stats (provided you are not playing on an empty football field ofcourse). Great "filler" unit if you have a few points to spare if you ask me.


It annoys me when people just write off units because they're not perceived as 'good' as another unit (the old kroot in this case). Kroot are cheap scoring bodies, with several decent options, well worth their pts cost. The ethereal seems to be getting the same treatment, which is hilarious because he's so good.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Kroot may not be what they used to be, but they have some limited use in my experience so far. Which is a smallish unit with sniper rounds in whatever forest in a forward position is closest to an objective. As long as there are firing lanes, they will make their points back and more.

As for the OP's markerlight situation, maybe a squad of marker drones is your best bet. If you have a spare HQ with BS5, give him a drone controller and stick him in a squad with 6-12 marker drones. They'll all be BS5 and the toughness 4 is better than the Pathfinders' toughness 3. They can't however defend themselves, so they'd need more support / not to be isolated/ handholding.


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## iamtheeviltwin (Nov 12, 2012)

Kroot have several good uses, I think too much emphasis in the past was made on the fact they were the only viable CC units in the codex. Of course even now they are really the only viable CC unit in the codex, they will most likely lose against any dedicated CC specialists but that is no different than before. They can still play the tarpit/bubblewrap role and should actually win combats against non-CC units.

Of course if you want them to have some limited success as CC unit you have to gear them that way. Which at the very least will involve maxing out the CC hounds. Since movement is based on the model you can do some interesting tricks charging the hounds ahead and stringing one or two back to keep unit coherency. This could allow the Kroot to unload their weapons (since rapid fire restrictions are by model and not unit) and then the Hounds could follow up with a charge (now you have to play some interesting movement games to keep coherency).

The Kroot are an incredibly flexible unit now that has many roles. From the cheap 60pt 10 model harassment unit to the maxed-out 284pt 33 model outflanking blob that has a large amount of massed firepower and moderate CC threat. All while being a scoring unit.


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