# Why was Big E a xenophobe?



## Chryckan (Jul 17, 2013)

From the HH books we've learned that the Emperor's great crusade was one of reason, logic and scientific pursuit that threw away all superstitions and theologies. 

Yet at the same time it was extremely xenophobic. If there is one thing you can state with absolute certainty about racism and bigotry is that they are completely irrational bordering on delusional. So not exactly shining examples of logic and reason.

Now Big E's main goal with the crusade was to safe guard mankind's destiny among the star so it makes sense the dangerous aliens like for example orks, tyrnids, necrons and even shifty eldars would get a bolter bolt to the head.
But what if the crusade had come up against aliens like the tau that isn't inherently hostile. That have similar overall goals of making the galaxy a safe place, would prefer diplomacy over warfare and isn't opposed to peaceful cooperation, coexistence or even an alliance.

The xenophobic result we could expect from the crusade even towards an alien race of that type would not be the reasonable and logical approach Big E claimed the crusade was about.

So why was the Emperor so xenophobic?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Chryckan said:


> So why was the Emperor so xenophobic?


During the Dark Age of Technology, the Human Federations maintained numerous "non-aggression pacts" with numerous alien civilisations (one presumably being the Eldar Empire). But when the Age of Strife came the xenos turned around and royally fucked humanity over (the same happened again after the Horus Heresy). Alien civilisations couldn't be trusted, and couldn't be ruled over with an iron fist (by the Emperor) as humanity could. Also, remember, when the Great Crusade spread out into the stars many human civilisations that were encountered were enslaved and dominated by certain alien empires. It thus became very easy to tar all non-humans with the same brush.

They also directly fuelled and empowered Chaos, so that was another justification for destroying them.

The galaxy isn't a nice place. The Great Crusade was (arguably) a desperate gambit by the Emperor anyway, he couldn't have further risked his plans by sparing potentially hostile alien civilisations.

Besides, what was the alternative? Creating an Imperium that consisted of numerous different non-human species?


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

People are tribal. Hatred and persecution of the alien gives the disparate cultures of humanity something to rally around; a common enemy. It makes the creation of a unified human empire easier. 

Mankind has a healthy distrust of aliens which is warranted. Throughout history aliens have only tried to harm humans. It came to a head during the Age of Strife where whole worlds and sectors were lost to the alien, people simply don't trust them, or want to trust them. 

Even the Tau, the most benign race still don't have goals compatible with the Imperium's 'manifest destiny'. The Tau arn't simply looking to make the galaxy a safe place but to subjugate it under tau rule; the greater good. If you oppose that you will be killed or conquered. The Tau are just as imperialistic as the Imperium, they simply have a softer initial approach and are more open to diplomacy.

edit- ninja'd by COTE


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Because the Emp wanted a Galaxy spanning empire of Humans. 



Rems said:


> Even the Tau, the most benign race still don't have goals compatible with the Imperium's 'manifest destiny'. The Tau arn't simply looking to make the galaxy a safe place but to subjugate it under tau rule; the greater good. If you oppose that you will be killed or conquered. The Tau are just as imperialistic as the Imperium, they simply have a softer initial approach and are more open to diplomacy.
> 
> edit- ninja'd by COTE


And they have more options than the Imp.

Join, die, or be conquered, vs Die

The Tau's goal is the same as the Imperium, a galaxy spanning empire.


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## mob16151 (Oct 20, 2011)

Why was the Emperor Xenophobic? Have you met Asdrubael Vect?


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Or invited the Orks to tea?


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Well he is the ultimate human, unfortunately for all his goodness I won't call him a nice guy, and his hatred was without bound or reason at times. Even the ultimate and being is a quite flawed thing. Also the aliens are dicks in this setting so being xenophobic would be a good idea.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Beaviz81 said:


> Well he is the ultimate human, unfortunately for all his goodness I won't call him a nice guy, and his hatred was without bound or reason at times. Even the ultimate and being is a quite flawed thing. Also the aliens are dicks in this setting so being xenophobic would be a good idea.


Not all aliens are dicks The interax, The Tau..ok they can be dicks., the race that coexisted with humans in a giant flotilla, their last words 'We just want to be left alone'. The little scavenger aliens in Rouge Trader (RPG). Most aliens are dicks to the Imperium because the Imperium destroyed their home, would you be nice to the guy that walked up and said 'This is my house GTFO or I'm going to shoot you'?


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Ehm the Interex was humans who dealt with aliens in a non-violent fashion. That pushed the berserk button of Abbadon since he not likey that Horus dealt with them.

The humans have been known to wok with the Jokero, but they can be dicky as well.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Beaviz81 said:


> Ehm the Interex was humans who dealt with aliens in a non-violent fashion. That pushed the berserk button of Abbadon since he not likey that Horus dealt with them.
> 
> The humans have been known to wok with the Jokero, but they can be dicky as well.


The Interax was a human and alien empire.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

They were a human empire who dealt with aliens in a peaceful manner, just check Horus Rising or False Gods.

Plus you are spelling Interex wrong, and that's terrible.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Xenophobia, while illogical, is a natural response. We naturally fear what we don't understand as a survival instinct. Fear triggers the fight/flight response, something built into our genes. The psychology of human fear is quite intriguing. No amount of reason or intelligence can overcome it because it is one of the few purely animalistic traits we have left. 

At the time of the Great Crusade, the Eldar were mostly benign to humanity.(Most were too self-absorbed to care about humans.) But they could not be trusted. They were not intentially deceitful but often did the opposite of what they said. This could be due to the complexity of their language. But that's just more for humans to not understand, thus fear. And the Orks are certainly something to fear.


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## dutchy1982 (Apr 28, 2008)

locustgate said:


> would you be nice to the guy that walked up and said 'This is my house GTFO or I'm going to shoot you'?


Love it


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Beaviz81 said:


> Plus you are spelling Interex wrong, and that's terrible.


So sue me I put an a instead of e.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

I was actually being humorous locustgate.  I invoked Superdickery for Empy's sake.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Well, this is a secret and not many know, but when the Emperor was young he fell in love with a beautiful eldar maiden but she broke his heart when she ran off with an Ork.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Hahaha. Couldn't you have said a Necron instead?


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Not quite Romeo and Juliet, I think even an Eldar would want something flesh and blood


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

That's like we two dating with me being a chimp and you running off with a gorilla. i would be pretty angry then as well


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Not quite Romeo and Juliet, I think even an Eldar would want something flesh and blood


I don't think ork fits.....maybe Thyrrus or....wait...TAU.. That's where the ethereals come from.


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## Protoss119 (Aug 8, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Well, this is a secret and not many know, but when the Emperor was young he fell in love with a beautiful eldar maiden but she broke his heart when she ran off with an Ork.


Who, Macha? Naw, that was all Eldrad's fault. He's a dick.


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## sadLor (Jan 18, 2012)

He's a xenophobe for the same reason people are racist: it's easier.

If you have a bad experience with another ethnicity, it is extremely easy to paint that entire race as a-holes. You do not have to do any critical thinking and you can move on.

On the other hand, understanding that every individual is different just makes life harder. What? You mean I actually have to get to know people before judging them? Argh, but that takes so much effort and I would actually have to...try!

In the 40k galaxy, it's simply easier to be a xenophobe. Of course there are alien races humanity could work with; ones where it would be mutually beneficial to ally and battle Chaos together. But there are countless more that would sooner grind humanity beneath their boots/tentacles/whatever.

As the Great Crusade happened, did the Imperium have the time and resources to figure out which species was which? In my opinion, no, they didn't. Harsh and brutal but that's the galaxy they lived in.


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## Apostle (Jun 29, 2012)

I like to think the real reason has not been revealed yet. There are several "Psykers" of different species (namely the Eldar) that might have even posed a threat to the Emperor. For instance he was working very hard on developing parts of the Eldar webway for Humanity. (Presumably the Eldar figured that stuff out before the Emperor's balls dropped.) Also it is specifically stated that if Humanity had not expanded that the Earth would be prone to Xenos and/or Chaos influence. 

I do not think the Emperor was the most powerful Psyker, he was certainly not as gifted in foresight as he thought he was. Blinded by love for a son...REALLY? Considering the way some of the Emperor's son's were treated it sounds like the Emperor just liked the first Primarch he found the best.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Apostle said:


> There are several "Psykers" of different species (namely the Eldar) that might have even posed a threat to the Emperor. For instance he was working very hard on developing parts of the Eldar webway for Humanity. (Presumably the Eldar figured that stuff out before the Emperor's balls dropped.)


Not quite. The webway was created by the Old Ones and then inherited by the Eldar.

The problem the Emperor had was that he couldn't replicate the material used in the webway's creation to build an artificial bridge in order to 'hack in' to the established network from the Imperial Palace. Thus he had to use his own psychic powers (via the Golden Throne) to maintain an artificial bridge by which Imperial troops could then access the wider webway network. This cannot be used as evidence to suggest Eldar psykers rivalled the Emperor's power. In fact, although it is impossible to prove either way, it does seem that the Emperor was the most powerful psyker the galaxy had ever seen.



Apostle said:


> Also it is specifically stated that if Humanity had not expanded that the Earth would be prone to Xenos and/or Chaos influence.


So?



Apostle said:


> I do not think the Emperor was the most powerful Psyker, he was certainly not as gifted in foresight as he thought he was. Blinded by love for a son...REALLY? Considering the way some of the Emperor's son's were treated it sounds like the Emperor just liked the first Primarch he found the best.


The Chaos Gods actively worked to hinder the Emperor's foresight in the build-up to the Heresy. Again, this can hardly be used as evidence to suggest he wasn't the most powerful psyker.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

> There are several "Psykers" of different species (namely the Eldar) that might have even posed a threat to the Emperor. For instance he was working very hard on developing parts of the Eldar webway for Humanity. (Presumably the Eldar figured that stuff out before the Emperor's balls dropped.)
> 
> Also it is specifically stated that if Humanity had not expanded that the Earth would be prone to Xenos and/or Chaos influence.
> 
> I do not think the Emperor was the most powerful Psyker, he was certainly not as gifted in foresight as he thought he was. Blinded by love for a son...REALLY? Considering the way some of the Emperor's son's were treated it sounds like the Emperor just liked the first Primarch he found the best.


Like CotE said, they inherited it

....Point?

The emp has been called the most powerful psyker in multiple instances, 4th-6th rule book and most of the HH books which mention him. Can you name any psykers more powerful than him? Like CotE said also the Gods were actively clouding his foresight. It's hard to see when someone is shining a light in your face, do you say the person is then blind?


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## Apostle (Jun 29, 2012)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Not quite. The webway was created by the Old Ones and then inherited by the Eldar.
> 
> The problem the Emperor had was that he couldn't replicate the material used in the webway's creation to build an artificial bridge in order to 'hack in' to the established network from the Imperial Palace. Thus he had to use his own psychic powers (via the Golden Throne) to maintain an artificial bridge by which Imperial troops could then access the wider webway network. This cannot be used as evidence to suggest Eldar psykers rivalled the Emperor's power. In fact, although it is impossible to prove either way, it does seem that the Emperor was the most powerful psyker the galaxy had ever seen.
> 
> ...


So it means that if the Emperor didn't have his massive army to expand the Empire that humanity would be crushed with or without his psychic powers. 
I have a follow up question here also. If he has such powers why would he not recognize the Chaos taint about one year into the heresy. Horus was destroying giant amounts of planets and/or taking them over. Yet the "greatest mind" as said by some, couldn't figure out Horus and his allies were beyond saving until Horus killed someone in front of his face. (you can answer with the forces of Chaos had their plot to play that tricked him.....but we all just know that's not logical, the Emperor screwed Chaos over many times, until finally meeting his end by his inferior son because he let him beat him within an inch of his life. With his incredible psychic might he was able to foresee what my 12 year old cousin could. The person responsible for killing billions or more of the loyalists...was OMG possibly evil. Such a brilliant mind yet so seemingly stupid if you look at the real world implications of being blind to your childs evil for almost an entire seven year war. 



The Chaos Gods actively worked to hinder the Emperor's foresight in the build-up to the Heresy. Again, this can hardly be used as evidence to suggest he wasn't the most powerful psyker.[/QUOTE]

It might not provide facts, but if you use deduction, the Emperor was at least emotionally weak minded compared to others. Psychic power? Fine. Most powerful, then I disagree, good decision making is what makes a good leader, and being a deity/immensely powerful psyker does not make you the most powerful or the most intelligent.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Apostle said:


> How about the Cabal that seems to have knowledge that no single entity does?


Not really, they predicted the logical outcomes of an event based on the principles of farseeing. They didn't possess knowledge that no other single entity possessed. Remember, there were numerous warnings from numerous individuals prior to the Heresy about Horus and his rebellion. 



Apostle said:


> So it means that if the Emperor didn't have his massive army to expand the Empire that humanity would be crushed with or without his psychic powers.


Maybe. But what does that prove?



Apostle said:


> I have a follow up question here also. If he has such powers why would he not recognize the Chaos taint about one year into the heresy. Horus was destroying giant amounts of planets and/or taking them over.


The Emperor didn't deny that the Heresy was going on, nor did he refrain from allowing Dorn (as acting Warmaster) to fight back. The Emperor wasn't involved in the Heresy whatsoever until the twilight of the Siege of Terra, he was too busy fighting the Secret War. Of course he recognised the Chaos taint, if you read _Collected Visions_ the rhetoric is very much the Emperor versus Chaos rather than the Emperor versus Horus. 



Apostle said:


> Yet the "greatest mind" as said by some, couldn't figure out Horus and his allies were beyond saving until Horus killed someone in front of his face.


Perhaps he wasn't beyond saving.



Apostle said:


> It might not provide facts, but if you use deduction, the Emperor was at least emotionally weak minded compared to others. Psychic power? Fine. Most powerful, then I disagree, good decision making is what makes a good leader, and being a deity/immensely powerful psyker does not make you the most powerful or the most intelligent.


I didn't realise we were talking about the "most powerful", I was under the impression we were talking about the "most powerful psyker". Regardless, the Emperor was resigned to confronting Horus personally aboard the Vengeful Spirit years before he actually did (see _Nemesis_). Given, he hesitated momentarily during the final duel (not only for emotional reasons, but also out of disbelief of how powerful Horus had become and that he was losing) but I don't think you can criticise him for that. 

You're implying that the Emperor made bad decisions. Care to elaborate?


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## Apostle (Jun 29, 2012)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Not really, they predicted the logical outcomes of an event based on the principles of farseeing. They didn't possess knowledge that no other single entity possessed. Remember, there were numerous warnings from numerous individuals prior to the Heresy about Horus and his rebellion.
> 
> Right, however you could easily argue that the Alpha Legion was persuaded to make a (very arguable) but still plausible future point that they knew far more than the Emperor. Why didn't the Emperor forsee what these ancient Psykers saw? Because he was busy building on a Webway. Possibly sure, but an all powerful Psyker like the Emperor later is said to watch over and know all things that pose a threat the Imperium now that he is on the Golden Throne. Did his foresight get stronger after Horus beat him around a little bit? He sure did not see enough futures to prevent Chaos from constantly torturing the Imperium.
> 
> ...


Yes, getting his ass kicked by Horus. Being unable to accept anything but the fact Magnus didn't do what daddy said.I think Magnus would have won the war against Horus, he was so powerful if the Emperor had simply asked him to come and assist Terra then presumably the World Eaters Primarch Angron would have perished quickly. Even a normal Astartes Psyker caused him even more than usual pain from the butchers nails. Think what Magnus could do....Angrons head would explode at least if he hadn't reached daemon prince status. Try not to look at everything based on what is written in stone. Because of the large amount of writers in this series, it is easy and appropriate to form opinions. BL has overridden it's own facts more than once. As a senior historian in my mind, I would think you of all people would know this.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Was it that smart to create the Astartes? For me they seem like smug supes at best, dangerously unstable beings with superpowers at worst.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Beaviz81 said:


> Was it that smart to create the Astartes? For me they seem like smug supes at best, dangerously unstable beings with superpowers at worst.


They are super soldiers. If he didn't have them then he would have to double, quadruple or more the Army recruitment numbers to make up for the lost of man power.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i was told that hes a xenophobe because he was once the meat in an ork sandwich .


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

locustgate said:


> They are super soldiers. If he didn't have them then he would have to double, quadruple or more the Army recruitment numbers to make up for the lost of man power.


If the numbers were that low he would have done without. For me he needed them to be the tip of the spear due to how nasty things are and no superior firepower won't always work. It's my interpretation, but they were really needed.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Beaviz81 said:


> If the numbers were that low he would have done without. For me he needed them to be the tip of the spear due to how nasty things are and no superior firepower won't always work. It's my interpretation, but they were really needed.


I very much agree with you on this, and in relation to the OP, the Emperor was looking at the long picture for humanity in the galaxy. I believe he saw that regardless of incidental treaties and alliances, the most powerful species wins, therefore humanity either destroyed the other sentient species or they would eventually become their prey.

In one of the prior posts, someone said that the Eldar were largely ignoring Humanity by the start of the GC, since they were too wrapped up in their own thing, making the Emperor's emnity toward them less than understandable. The HH novels are full of references to Expedition Fleets saving newly discovered human worlds from Dark Eldar raiders who feed upon them for their sick amusement. I don't remember hearing anything about regular Eldar, but imagine they weren't any more considerate of humanity if it suited their purposes.


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