# Cypher and his uses



## NostromanNeckTie (Sep 3, 2013)

So, now that Cypher has been released what do you guys think of him?

I for one think his rules are fantastic. He is a walking utility belt of USRs and can really add to any force he is taken in. His ability to give Infiltrate, ATSKNF to CSM (finally), and Hit and Run to any unit he joins is simply amazing. There are so many possibilities with this guy. I'm currently working on a couple lists with him. 

How are you guys planning to use him? Discuss.


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## Jonny B (Aug 22, 2013)

I've not decided exactly how to use him yet, probably try him with 2 units of Chosen alongside my Black Legion and CSM allies.
Bit gutted about the Never Forgive rule as I mostly fight Dark Angels.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

I used to use him with my Guard as a bit of a surprise for my opponents who never thought they would find themselves against power armoured chapies when facing flak armoured squishy guardsmen!
Will be interesting to see how widely he is used - i expect quite a lot - Cypher will be everywhere!


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

I was upset that Cypher has been released with Choas; the character is suppose to be a rogue nuetral who works for niether faction. Why then give him to the Chosen Fallen.....I'm just disappointed.


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## NostromanNeckTie (Sep 3, 2013)

He's not exclusively for chaos, all imperial armies but DA can take him. It makes sense for the most part. Except that grey knights can take him. That kinda struck me as odd.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

I've been looking at a few ideas:

The Fallen Chosen formation:

Chosen x5 w/x4 plasma guns: 150pts. Leaving the compulsory champion as the ablative wound. They come with infiltrate. Infiltrate and plop them into cover and shoot away.

Maxed out: Chosen x6 w/x5 plasma guns, x1 combi-plasma on champion: 178pts. 

Pros: Lots of plasma and you can get them into position and range with infiltrate. All squads with 12" get ATSKNF. Model them as robed Fallen Dark Angels and it's a pretty cool fluffy unit IMO.

Cons: Not scoring. And there is no way to make them troops even using the Black Legion supplement because they are a Formation and a separate detachment. Still die like ordinary MEQ despite the price tag. Made practically useless if you happen to face servo-skulls.

Without Formation:

Attach Cypher to CSM squad x15-20 strong, with Mark of Slaanesh, Icon of Excess and extra close combat weapons. 

Pros: They would gain infiltrate and then plunked into cover would gain a 3 or 2+ cover save with shrouded, plus FNP on top of that. As a bonus: Cypher with FNP would make up slightly for his lack of an invulnerable save too. Hard as nails scoring unit with ATSKNF and also Hit and Run. Initiative 5 on the charge. Highly flexible unit. I like this idea a lot.


Cons: Quite expensive. Servo-skulls would prevent infiltrate, but this wouldn't be a disaster.


Chosen as Troops:

Use Black Legion Supplement to get Chosen as scoring. Or just take Abaddon in high points games. 

Attach Cypher to a Chosen Squad with following build: x10 Chosen, Mark of Slaanesh, plasma or melta x5, Icon of Excess. 

Pros: Much like above you get FNP, infiltrate, shrouded, hit and run etc. However, the emphasis on special weapons and shooting over close combat. 

Cons: You don't want Chosen in close combat, so Hit and Run is slightly wasted. It's also an expensive unit and so much less flexible. 

Khorne Berserkers:

Khorne Lord to make them scoring. Add Cypher to a unit of 15-20. Congrats you have shrouded khorne bersekers with Hit and Run and ATSKNF. But no FNP...

Conclusion:

So far I am leaning heavily towards attaching Cypher to a CSM squad with mark of slaanesh, icon of excess and extra close combat weapons. FNP, 3 attacks on the charge per model, Initiative 5, Hit and Run, cover saves and ATSKNF just feels like it could work so well. 
And then if I have the points spare i'd add a formation of x2 Chosen Squads with x4 plasma and infiltrate them and keep them within 12" of Cypher. 

I think either way I will probably use some of my old DA metal models and kit bash with chaos bitz to make some fallen chosen with plasma, for a nice fluffy detachment I can add to my Chaos lists.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Thinking about it he'd probably work nicely with Plague Marines too. Shrouded T5 FNP marines would be great objective holders.

Attached to a Thousand Sons squad: He makes up for some of their big weaknesses: Their lack of overwatch with his BS10 overwatching, and gives them Hit and Run (assuming S+P doesn't prevent this?), so they could shoot AP3 bolters, charge and then leave combat again. Not great, but not bad either.

It seems Cypher has some great synergy with a lot of CSM units and patches up a lot of their weaknesses. ATSKNF in paticular. 

Anyway, I am just brainstorming....I'd like to hear other people's ideas.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

NostromanNeckTie said:


> Except that grey knights can take him. That kinda struck me as odd.


I will agree friend, i could never see Cypher working with the Grey Knights considering their background. Then again I never thought I'd read about a Telepath that managed to controll a Carnifex; weirder things have happened in the 40k Universe. 

My point was more why is Cypher mainly being sold for CSM?I always saw him as a Rogueish hero who fought for the Emporer from the shadows. Idk....I'm just pooped


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Black Templar 20 man infiltrating shrouded CC blobs that can Hit and Run then re-charge.


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## loki619 (Mar 28, 2013)

just a small point if u read the print of chaos chosen the champ can also take a weapon making 5 plasma in a 5 man unit


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

loki619 said:


> just a small point if u read the print of chaos chosen the champ can also take a weapon making 5 plasma in a 5 man unit


I think you missed:



Straken's_Fist said:


> Leaving the compulsory champion as the ablative wound.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Cypher's only really viable with two units, but he's _really_ viable with those two units. The first and foremost is a unit of 20 Chaos Space Marines with Mark of Slaanesh and Icon of Excess with a Lightning Claw Champion and Bolters/Plasmas on everybody. They all get Hit and Run, Shrouded, ATSKNF, and Cypher to tank/beat things in melee/shooting. Second option is a 50-man Guard Blob, who are pretty hilarious with Hit and Run and really don't mind having ATSKNF or Shrouded.

I would definitely want him in a big, shooting-orientated unit like 20 CSM or 50 Guardsmen because I'd want to make full use of Shrouded and Hit and Run, and a unit with fairly weak Leadership would be good to keep costs down and use ATSKNF.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Ntaw: Well he has a point, if you wanted to I believe you could take 5 Chosen and 1 Chosen champion and have x5 plasma guns and x1 combi-plasma: 12 shots of plasma from an infiltrate position. 

However, I wouldn't do this because if you go second chances are you are gonna lose a few of those very expensive models before they can shoot any plasma whatsoever. Hence, why i'd just go for x4 plasma and the ablative wound. Put the champ at the front. Maybe add another naked chosen for another wound, so x6 chosen with x4 plasma, for 168pts. Damage output pretty high for the cost. But I think only worth it in higher points games. 

As I said, I still feel large squads 15-20 of slaanesh marked CSM with Icon of Excess, extra close combat weapons and meltaguns are the best choice: You'd be getting a unit with a 3+ armour save, 3-5+ cover save, FNP, Hit and Run and ATSKNF, with a very mean overwatch (boltgun rounds and Cyphers BS10 plasma overwatch). 
They would get 45-60 attacks on the charge, can deal with AV14 with meltaguns, and can lay down 26-36 boltgun rounds when rapid firing. 

Luckily I just finished converting this exact unit from old space wolves bitz mixed with chaos, to make a renegade space wolves unit.  Would be funny to have Cypher leading them, a big middle finger to my DA playing friends. ;-)


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## Jaguar (Jul 28, 2013)

I have a buddy who's played CSM for a while and he's got an old metal cypher model that he could never use - where would he find the rules for him now?

[edit]
nvm just found the dataslate.


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## DarkDisciple_Nahum (Oct 6, 2013)

I am already running a x5 unit of chosen with 4plasma guns/1combi-plasma(champ) (or x6 chosen w/ 5plasma/1combi-plas(champ)) and using DA vets as "Fallen Angels" (because I love DA fluff and miss mine) so I already some pretty fallen made up. I'd been trying to figure out how to work my old Cypher model in and now I can!


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

I was thinking of doing the same thing with those nice robed DA models to represent Cypher's Chosen. Maybe kitbash them a bit with chaos bitz.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> Cypher's only really viable with two units, but he's really viable with those two units. The first and foremost is a unit of 20 Chaos Space Marines with Mark of Slaanesh and Icon of Excess with a Lightning Claw Champion and Bolters/Plasmas on everybody. They all get Hit and Run, Shrouded, ATSKNF, and Cypher to tank/beat things in melee/shooting. Second option is a 50-man Guard Blob, who are pretty hilarious with Hit and Run and really don't mind having ATSKNF or Shrouded.


Basically my thoughts. The notion of the infiltrated guard blob plus Straken buffs or something...

Another option might be infiltrating a squad of Noise Marines so they start in Sonic Blaster range without having to spend a turn marching forward with salvocrap statlines. Plus Cypher likes shooty units. Similar concept to infiltrating plasma Chosen, though Noise Marines arguably benefit more from it due to they count as standing still when infiltrated.

The only dead obvious thing I've thought of that I haven't seen in this thread, though, is Cypher+Huron in a footslogging horde army.


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## NostromanNeckTie (Sep 3, 2013)

Me and my friend have been devising a Cypher/Huron list and the possibilities are scary. Only problem to this is the Inquisitor book and Servo Skulls which stop this type of army dead in its tracks.

I myself have been building a list that uses Cypher, Be'lakor, and a Last Memory Demon Prince. It's pretty mean.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Mossy Toes said:


> The only dead obvious thing I've thought of that I haven't seen in this thread, though, is Cypher+Huron in a footslogging horde army.


I don't really like it because;
1. Infiltrate isn't particularly useful against many armies. There are armies that you either want to stay away from or who don't particularly care if you get a bit closer to them.
2. Easy access to Infiltration-blockers; saturation of Codex: Inquisition. I bring it even when I'm not anticipating any Infiltrators, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a butt-load of Servo-Skulls flying around.
3. That's a whole tonne of points in HQ in T4, fairly weak bodies. Sure, Cypher and Huron will beat up most standard dudes and probably most HQs, but they're hardly the terrors of the assault phase. While you get a lot of utility, I think it's perhaps too many points into utility and not enough into honest kill-power.

That said, shoving a load of Infiltrated CSM into somebody's face if they're not expecting it has a lot of potential.


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## Jonny B (Aug 22, 2013)

Used Cyhper today. Placed him in cover with a squad of 10 Havocs including 4 lascannons and feel no pain. Didn't take a single casualty. One squad came close then quicky ran off.


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## Worthy (Feb 10, 2013)

I had some DA and Chaos spare parts in my bits box, so i've converted my own 'possessed by Khorne' version of Cypher:

:hq: He has a converted Chaos backpack that's identical to the official models 'winged icon' backpack (thanks to DA landspeeder bits)

:hq: He has a Plasma Pistol, Bolt Pistol, Chaos Sword case on his backpack with Hellblade sword handle sticking out,

:hq: The hooded head of Sammael (also from the said Landspeed bits).

:hq: A Chaos logo shoulder pad and a DA hooded skull shoulder pad.

:hq: Space Marine armoured body with DA hooded skull on a cross icon.

:hq: The legs of a BLOOD LETTER with various DA bits to look like robbed skirt and a chaos spawn tail.

...Trust me, it looks weird, but good.


The problem is, he's already undercoated, but i'm not sure on the colour scheme? Green armour/white robes or Green armour/Black robes? 

Also how should I use him? With Bezerkers? With Cultists? Chaos Space Marines? or with my 5 man Chosen?
BTW yes my Chaos Space Marine army are Khorne based and no I don't care about the fluff logistics of Cypher working for Khorne or being turned into a hybrid-Blood Letter-Chaos Space Marine. :lol:


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## iamtheeviltwin (Nov 12, 2012)

Go black armor with the bone robes...more traditional looking (DA used to wear black waaay back in the day)


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## Worthy (Feb 10, 2013)

iamtheeviltwin said:


> Go black armor with the bone robes...more traditional looking (DA used to wear black waaay back in the day)


Thanks and I think I will go for that colour scheme along with using flesh colours on the face and legs (was going to paint the skin red like Blood Letters)... yeah my Cypher is far from Traditional, lol!

EDIT: I've removed the tail and added a burn't effect over the legs by dry brushing a tiny ammount of imperial primer over it (because he looks like he has Chicken legs), so i'm going to go for the Green Armor idea instead.


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## Jonny B (Aug 22, 2013)

Have you posted pictures Worthy?


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## Worthy (Feb 10, 2013)

Jonny B said:


> Have you posted pictures Worthy?


I've had trouble in the past taking pictures of my models in because they always come out dull or blurry.


When I manage to do it, i'll post a WIP pic up of what has now been dubbed 'Chicken Leg Cypher' :laugh:

EDIT: Here it is, although it's blurry









When he's finished, what do you think I should do with him? Use him in my Khorne army (he looks okay stood next to my Spawns) or play him as allies with 2 separate Chosen units of his own?


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