# valkyries, whats the point?



## davidg32 (Dec 19, 2008)

Well I am in the beginning stages of revamping my previous Cadian army and I have no idea how the valkyrie is supposed to work tactically? Mobile transport, or mobile fire platform? Any suggestions on how they work best?


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

I wouldn't bother with it.

Its utter shit compared to the other flying transports around (mainly Wave serpents and Raiders).

It was GW way of letting the Guard taste all the 'cake' as opposed to limiting them, like they have with every race bar marines.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

I think they are great, make it a vendetta and you have some serious anti tank flying around with armor 12 all around. Put a melta loaded vet squad in there and mech armies have a problem.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

RIGHT... never thought I would see the day- a thread without people all agreeing how wonderful the valkyrie is (except for the blatant holes in the rules fot it- until the FAQ actually fixed them.. wow).

Valks can scout/outflank, so anythin you want to transport quickly all over the battlefield this'll get the job done (like the classic vet melta squad). They can also take some pretty nasty weapons- nose mounted lascannon is nasty, but being able to move 12" and fire the lascannon and the defensive multiple rocket launchers (large blast S4.. sweet, just hope I got the name right).
- they work very well if you outflank them with some cheap troops in: you can bring them on as flanking fore support which can score. It has high damage output while moving 12" so if all but immune to combat (hitting on 6+) and if your battleline has crippled the enemy enough it can swoop in and claim any objectives ytou might want in their table quarter

Not game shattering, but a very nice addition to the guard codex (vendetta is just totally sick- compare it to a SM predator anhiliator and you'll see what I mean).


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Tim/Steve said:


> ...Vendetta is just totally sick- compare it to a SM predator anhiliator and you'll see what I mean...


Its the classical goof GW always has made. SMs are "the Emperors Finest" but get very little of the Emperors Finest Equipment. Special weapons for example that guards can have 4 of in each command squad, unlike SMs, and so on...:shok:


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## cafel (Dec 21, 2008)

If Space Marines got access to all of IG's equipment what would be the point of having an IG army?


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## HighHubris (Mar 16, 2009)

i <3 valks. i was a nut for IG drop armies, valks put some cool flavor into the army.


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## davidg32 (Dec 19, 2008)

So I am a little confused as to how they work as far as transportation goes, can you explain that part a little more? Is the grav chute insertion the only way to deploy?


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## HighHubris (Mar 16, 2009)

no
grav chute insertion is something to do with them moving flat out and deploying in a deep strike manner, don't have the dex handy


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

davidg32 said:


> So I am a little confused as to how they work as far as transportation goes, can you explain that part a little more? Is the grav chute insertion the only way to deploy?


Grav chutes are an option you can choose to use when you want to dismount, even if you're moving Flat Out.
You basically deep strike the squad on any point the vehicle moved over.

I like the Valkyrie, I really just want to do a Medevac one, paint it white with a red cross on it, and use it to evacuate troops <3


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## davidg32 (Dec 19, 2008)

gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up. Idk if its worth it for the points though. What are your thoughts on squadrons of valkyries?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

davidg32 said:


> gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up. Idk if its worth it for the points though. What are your thoughts on squadrons of valkyries?


They're great, used right they're incredible infantry rape, and Veterans squads mounted in (or Storm Troopers using their DS mission to safely dismount on the move) you can charge up, and do some serious harm with nasty weapons.


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## Phrazer (Oct 14, 2008)

TBH air Cav is the only type of guard army that would tempt me in the future. My main questoin is, what anti horde capability do they have? Anything meaty??


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

Phrazer said:


> TBH air Cav is the only type of guard army that would tempt me in the future. My main questoin is, what anti horde capability do they have? Anything meaty??


without the codex- i think they can be equipped with HB's and a multiple rocket pod (i think) - and the vendetta is the anti tank option, 3 TL LC


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Phrazer said:


> TBH air Cav is the only type of guard army that would tempt me in the future. My main questoin is, what anti horde capability do they have? Anything meaty??


You're kidding right?
Valkyries ARE anti-horde capability.
Rocket pods, move up to 12" fire 2 S4 AP6 Pie plates at 24", counting as defensive weapons.
Give them Heavy Bolter sponsons, meaning if you move at combat speed, you fire the 2 aforementioned rocket blasters, a Multi-laser, and 2 Heavy Bolters, for a total of 9 shots at BS3, and 2 huge Bolter cannons.


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## matty570 (Jun 14, 2007)

Squadrons can be damn useful, I've toyed with the idea of taking 2 or 3 in a squadron each with tooled up veteran squads in. Can bring a lot of firepower to the party and if your flanking them then its a good way to take objectives. 

But just remember with the new rules (something I didnt realise until recently) if a vehicle is in a squadron and is immobalised its wrecked, straight off.

Also since troops in transports make the vehicle count as a scoring unit for the purposes of objectives it gives IG a great chance to boost 24" to an objective to either contest or hopefully take an undefended one. 

If I could afford it (and had the patience to paint so many vehicles) I would love to take as many as I could fit in a 1500pts army taking veterans in each. Whether it would be competitive or not is a different matter, but would be good fun!


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

matty570 said:


> If I could afford it (and had the patience to paint so many vehicles) I would love to take as many as I could fit in a 1500pts army taking veterans in each. Whether it would be competitive or not is a different matter, but would be good fun!


I just want to get 1, paint it in regiment colours (Athonian Tunnel Rats ), and have a big white stripe on it with a red cross.
And call it the Guardian Angel, the medevac dropship :biggrin:


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

davidg32 said:


> gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up. Idk if its worth it for the points though. What are your thoughts on squadrons of valkyries?


Great until you come up against Any army that features a fair amount of lascannons or other high strength weapons.

Namely: Obliterator armies, Nidzilla and Tau.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Orochi said:


> Great until you come up against Any army that features a fair amount of lascannons or other high strength weapons.
> 
> Namely: Obliterator armies, Nidzilla and Tau.


Keep them moving fast, use the drop rules, and they'll either ignore it because it gets a cover save, or waste shots trying to kill it.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Didnt think of that. Thanks for reminding me 

I've not really spent much time looking at the Imp codex, so:

Are Veteran 'air cavalry' armies the cheese in the Imp codex?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Orochi said:


> Didnt think of that. Thanks for reminding me
> 
> I've not really spent much time looking at the Imp codex, so:
> 
> Are Veteran 'air cavalry' armies the cheese in the Imp codex?


Not cheese, fast as hell and dangerous to tanks AND infantry, but not cheese.

I'd say the IG cheese is either taking 6-9 tanks in a 1.5k-2k game, or taking a 50-man unit of Conscripts, with Straken nearby and a Lord Commissar in them, and a priest attached of course.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Is straken ridiculously overpowered for a normal 'man' then?

And from what i've heard, the Valkyrie is around 120 ish points? but you pay about 25 quid for it?


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## Daniel Harper (May 25, 2008)

The valkyrie is around those points yes and is very handy. The price of one is the same as a landraider, £35. Thats why currently air cav armies are just a dream to most haha.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Orochi said:


> Is straken ridiculously overpowered for a normal 'man' then?
> 
> And from what i've heard, the Valkyrie is around 120 ish points? but you pay about 25 quid for it?


It's a HUGE vehicle, larger (not in total area, but in plastic and radius) than a Land Raider.
And it's 130 points with Missile Pods, what people normally give it.

Also Straken is in almost all respects a Monstrous Creature.
With S6.
And an aura of "Fuck you people I'm in melee with!"


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

The reason Straken is busted is that if you put him next to a unit of conscrips (within 12") they get counter attack and furious charge.... means that if you charge them they potentially have 100 S4 I4 attacks (they certainly will if you let them charge you).. admittedly the whole squad is unlikely to ever to get into combat all at once.

He basically turns an IG gunline into a serious threat in combat... not really broken, just means you have to remember to shoot and kill him before charging on in.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> The reason Straken is busted is that if you put him next to a unit of conscrips (within 12") they get counter attack and furious charge.... means that if you charge them they potentially have 100 S4 I4 attacks (they certainly will if you let them charge you).. admittedly the whole squad is unlikely to ever to get into combat all at once.
> 
> He basically turns an IG gunline into a serious threat in combat... not really broken, just means you have to remember to shoot and kill him before charging on in.


Actually Furious Charge doesn't work with Counter Attack, it specifies the attack bonus, nothing else.
But it's still quite a powerful position to be in, charging them is suddenly something to be concerned about if you haven't the power to eliminate them all, or if you have low I.


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## Valanehtar (Sep 10, 2009)

2 quick questions related to this thread. I'm revamping my army with the possibility of going IG with DH allies. That said, does straken's aura of melee ridiculousness affect ALL friendly models (meaning my GKs) or is there some FAQ I missed that says it only affects IG friendly models? I know he can't issue orders to them but I didn't see anything about the aura.

And the 2nd question is which gunship would people choose, the Vendetta or the Valkyrie? And is one better than the other for facing Daemons? (feel the vendetta doesn't get as many shots but is more likely to wound)

thanks


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Valanehtar said:


> 2 quick questions related to this thread. I'm revamping my army with the possibility of going IG with DH allies. That said, does straken's aura of melee ridiculousness affect ALL friendly models (meaning my GKs) or is there some FAQ I missed that says it only affects IG friendly models? I know he can't issue orders to them but I didn't see anything about the aura.
> 
> And the 2nd question is which gunship would people choose, the Vendetta or the Valkyrie? And is one better than the other for facing Daemons? (feel the vendetta doesn't get as many shots but is more likely to wound)
> 
> thanks


Huh, good point.
Yes, the aura DOES work on allies, it says friendly units, with no specification.


And it depends on the rest of your army.

Do you have lots of anti-tank?
Then go with a Rocket Pod Valkyrie.

Not much anti-tank?
Go with Vendetta.


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## matty570 (Jun 14, 2007)

Winterous said:


> I just want to get 1, paint it in regiment colours (Athonian Tunnel Rats ), and have a big white stripe on it with a red cross.
> And call it the Guardian Angel, the medevac dropship :biggrin:


Sounds like a good plan to me, I've got one at the moment and to be fair I've ended up using it to pick up harker's squad to move him out of danger to another objective more than once so I should probably get mine painted up as a medevac as well!


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I would go with valks against daemons- you dont really need the transport but the missile pods would be sweet: move 12" and let rip with a multi-laser and 2 S4 large blasts means you'll blast holes in daemons units (especially just after DS) and be very hard to kill in combat even if they manage to catch you (throw a cheap uni of troops inside and you have yourself a nice scoring reserve that you can either throw on an objective late game or boot out on an objective the daemons havent DS'd near).

Vendettas are ok for killing greater daemons and excellent at going after soul grinders but I feel that there are better things out there for those roles.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> I would go with valks against daemons- you dont really need the transport but the missile pods would be sweet: move 12" and let rip with a multi-laser and 2 S4 large blasts means you'll blast holes in daemons units (especially just after DS) and be very hard to kill in combat even if they manage to catch you (throw a cheap uni of troops inside and you have yourself a nice scoring reserve that you can either throw on an objective late game or boot out on an objective the daemons havent DS'd near).
> 
> Vendettas are ok for killing greater daemons and excellent at going after soul grinders but I feel that there are better things out there for those roles.


It's a little mean to tailor your list, unless it's a challenge or agreed upon, or a campaign (in which case you KNOW who you're fighting).

But really, if you struggle against a few things, then compensating for that weakness is completely reasonable.

In most Daemon lists, I'm pretty sure the main focus is on Infantry and a few Greater Daemons (Keepers more than others), so anti-infantry weapons will help a lot.


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## Valanehtar (Sep 10, 2009)

Winterous said:


> It's a little mean to tailor your list, unless it's a challenge or agreed upon, or a campaign (in which case you KNOW who you're fighting).
> 
> But really, if you struggle against a few things, then compensating for that weakness is completely reasonable.
> 
> In most Daemon lists, I'm pretty sure the main focus is on Infantry and a few Greater Daemons (Keepers more than others), so anti-infantry weapons will help a lot.


Yea, it is a little mean, but it is a challenge and its one of my best friends. And the only tailoring I am doing is which gunship is better and I put in an inq with mystics (cause how could I not). The rest of list is what I am going for in general, which I will prob post up soon to see what people think.

Right now my only real anti-tank is 2 Leman Russes, Marbo (he can get one tank), and a Vet squad with meltas in a chimera.

I know he'll be running the KoS, as well as 2 DP and a Soul Grinder, beyond that I have no idea because he has been revamping his force as well.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Valanehtar said:


> Yea, it is a little mean, but it is a challenge and its one of my best friends. And the only tailoring I am doing is which gunship is better and I put in an inq with mystics (cause how could I not). The rest of list is what I am going for in general, which I will prob post up soon to see what people think.
> 
> Right now my only real anti-tank is 2 Leman Russes, Marbo (he can get one tank), and a Vet squad with meltas in a chimera.
> 
> I know he'll be running the KoS, as well as 2 DP and a Soul Grinder, beyond that I have no idea because he has been revamping his force as well.


Marbo has Meltabombs, don't underestimate those, especially if he gets ignored for whatever reason.
Frankly with his loadout, I think that a unit of Rough Riders would make your day, S5 on the charge, that'll take out his MCs easy, especially with their volume of attacks.

Failing that, Autocannon with 'Bring it down!' works wonders, because the AP means nothing against Daemons.
God I love Autocannon, they're so good.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I'd take GKTs. Just 3 of them should be enough to pack a serious counter-punch. Far better than Riders, who take up a Flying V (sorry, Fast Attack) slot on the FoC. 

Take Vendettas for that army, as a general rule. Russes aren't really anti-tank. Ordnance CAN hurt vehicles, but only if it hits. By the same token, Vendettas don't miss. Much...


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