# Space Marine Review: The Hunter Killer Missile



## JackalMJ

Happy New Year everyone. I've decided as part of the new year to post a series of discussions here on various units or upgrades. Just a general place to discuss and review units. I'm focusing on Space Marines because thats my new army and fully encourage others to focus on other races in other topics.

Todays topic is "The Hunter Seeker" missle. I've looked at this upgrade for vechiles and tried to bend my mind into ways to use it. I actually quiet like the look of the model itself, a missle launcher mounted on my Rhino looks pretty cool, but sadly I consider this a waste of points.

For those unfamilar with it its an unlimited range, one use, Krak missle for 10 points. 10 points seems pretty damn high for a one shot missle launcher. Its problem is that its barely strong enough to hurt transports, has a so so chance against a dreadnaught and doesnt seem worth firing into a squad of MEQs.

All in all I'd say its a waste of points and not worth taking... but what if...

Stick one on a land raider, one on each of your two dreadnaughts (for example) and two on your Rhino's. Thats 5 unlimited range missles. On round one you could unleash a barrage on your enemies transports, or some heavy weapons squad for example that would normally be out of you range. Could give you an advantage.

So, whats your views and opinons on this upgrade?


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## NagashKhemmler

Worthwhile on certain AT platforms as they increase your shooting in a turn by a marked amount, enough sometimes to make a difference, often not. I take them with my guard on vanquishers, due to the bs4 and +1 to penetration, not on any other vehicles.


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## Sytus

It adds firepower to a vehicle with very little in the way of shooting(rhino), so that' something.


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## Ryuzaki

If I played space marines I'd chuck 'em on my rhinos, flank the opponant on either side then fire at their vehicles' side armour.


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## chromedog

It's Hunter-Killer missile, not Hunter Seeker.

It's an extra weapon that has to be destroyed in order to stop your tank firing (if unfired).
Just like that second storm bolter on a rhino. 

Can SM dreads take HKs? (I know the ironclad can take 2 of them, and GK dreads can).


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## JackalMJ

NagashKhemmler said:


> Worthwhile on certain AT platforms as they increase your shooting in a turn by a marked amount, enough sometimes to make a difference, often not. I take them with my guard on vanquishers, due to the bs4 and +1 to penetration, not on any other vehicles.


Interesting, is this +1 penetration a bonus from the vanquisher?



Ryuzaki said:


> If I played space marines I'd chuck 'em on my rhinos, flank the opponant on either side then fire at their vehicles' side armour.


This is an idea i've been toying with myself. Right now my Rhino's have stormbolters on them.. cause their cheap and something with armor might as well have at least one gun. I've toyed with the idea though of doing somehting similar to what you say. Drive a terminator filled land raider down the middle and Rhinos off to either side to get troops to objects/quartesr. As a bonus, shot hunter seekers at side armor.

Like I side, I love the look of it mounted on a rhino's roof but 20 pts is a lot to just waste.


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## JackalMJ

chromedog said:


> It's Hunter-Killer missile, not Hunter Seeker.
> 
> It's an extra weapon that has to be destroyed in order to stop your tank firing (if unfired).
> Just like that second storm bolter on a rhino.
> 
> Can SM dreads take HKs? (I know the ironclad can take 2 of them, and GK dreads can).


Your right of course, I dont know where i got Hunter Seeker from. Thats a good point to its an extra weapon to be destroyed before the tank goes boom, but how often does that really come into play and is it worth the 10 points?


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## torealis

don't think of them as individual weapons, ask yourself instead, "is it worth 90 pts to take out a predator/leman russ/whatever tank"

so on a tank heavy army, it's worth taking as many as you can.

individually? I'm not so sure.


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## njfed

I run an IC dread with HK and Melta in a drop pod. That HK has saved my ass a few times when the melta misses.

As for taking five of them for a first turn HK spamfest, think about how nice it would work against Eldar vehicles or bigger bugs.


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## FORTHELION

i have 2 on my ironclad i blew up my my brothers predator first shot and also took out 3 of his combat squad behind it in the explosion so all in all 10 points well spent.


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## JDMJapan

I say hell ya, it gives a rhino a bit of punch. I like HK's and SB's on my rhino, it makes them an actual tank...... well, not really, but it does give it half deceint firepower


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## JackalMJ

I consider SB a minieum requiment for Rhino's. Ever since i saw a game where a guys devilfish just sat around doing nothing. If my tanks alive the least it can do is shoot.

I'm tempted to try out the HK missles now. I admit i considered them crap when i spoted this topic and well it seems iv'e been educated.


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## Lash Machine

I feel that only Ironclads are worth up grading with two hunter killer missiles. It gives them a decent ranged weapon for one turn, maybe two if you fire them individually. I feel that weapon upgrades on Rhinos are expensive and generally pointless. I would rather pick the storm bolter upgrade on the rhino just to boost the anti infantry fire rate on it.

A Rhino is a cheap transport and should be used as such. Any shooting from one of these is normally a desperate measure rather than a tactical one. I see the idea of loading up 5 hunter killer missles on varoius transports and vehicles for a one turn salvo but would it not be better spending those 50 points on a attack bike with a multi melta that will more than likely get the job done. It's quite easey to manouvere into the 12" range and give a tank a bad day.

The main problem with putting a Hunter killer on a landraider is that you have twin linked las cannons which will almost always be in range and are a far superior weapon. I would spend the ten points on a multi melta sponson instead.


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## torealis

Lash Machine said:


> for a one turn salvo but would it not be better spending those 50 points on a attack bike with a multi melta that will more than likely get the job done. It's quite easey to manouvere into the 12" range and give a tank a bad day.


This is a valid point, but i think the overriding factor isnt that it's a one turn salvo, but a turn one salvo!

and no kill points for them...


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## Arbite

I like having a HK missile. Took out another rhino today, killed most of kharns berserkers when it asploded. I was happy, my opponent wasn't.


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## Lash Machine

torealis said:


> This is a valid point, but i think the overriding factor isnt that it's a one turn salvo, but a turn one salvo!
> 
> and no kill points for them...


The downside being that you move all of six inches and have not popped smoke meaning that your occupants are not as close to where they need to be and your transport is more vulnerable to return fire. Also beaing in mind that your opponent has either set up out of sight or in cover or has moved and popped smoke, reducing the effectiveness of what will be averagely 3.5 (thereabouts) str 8 hits.

Against a Rhino AV 11 that would yield at best one glancing and two penetrating assuming that you get four hits before you bring in cover saves. Once you start factoring in higher armour values the effectiveness drops completely off.

The attack bike can be a one shot wonder once it has done it's deed and is an easy kill point for the opponenet but it offers a 50% chance of a kill on penetration and can deal with all armour values effectively.

The other comparison of where you could spend 50 points would be to upgrade one Rhino to a Razorback with twin linked las cannon for an extra 40 points. This effectively gives you a las cannon that hits on 2+ and a weapon that is still the best ranged anti tank weapon available to most armies. The functionality of the razorback and the unit within would also mesh better as it should be used as a sit and hold unit offering fire support. It can also fire for more than one turn.

The other ten points could be happily spent on turning two rhinos into normal razorbacks to provide a creeping fire support against infantry.

I personally feel the Rhino is a means to transport a package that is going to do a job up close and personal and that the first turn or two needs to be used to getting where you need to be. Hunter Killer missiles and heavy bolter razorbacks don't really offer a quick resoloution to this unless you are looking to off load the fire power once the incumbants have reached their destination. By which time the effectiveness of such shooting may not make any difference.

I feel in a marine codex there is always better upgrades on units to spend those points than on upgrades on a transport.


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## Raptors8th

On scouting sentinels with autocannon coming in off the sides? Hell yeah! On anything else? Hell no!


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## Imperium's finest

Ive got a couple of scout sentanals with them and I use them to when I dont have enough firepower to kill an important unit or take of the last wound off a brood lord or kill the final warrior keeping his army in synapese so is say 10pts well spent indeed:so_happy:


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## Lucio

For marines: I think they're good if you've got 10 points left and nothing else useful to use it on. Otherwise take the points on something else. Mine typically miss and end up being a waste of 10 points when i couldve used those to up a weapon on the devastators.


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## pathwinder14

The HKM is awesome if...taken in groups. Having just one sux. If you put one on each tank you have then it becomes a lethal 1st turn barrage. It is especially good in apoc since it has unlimited range.


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## MJayC50

i must admit that i havent always been a fan of them but like people have said, if you take about 3 and drop them all first turn it can work nicely. its a supplement to your anti tank. not the main anti tank. in my wolf army i have 6 missiles, 5 lascannons (1 t/l) living lightning and 3 HK missiles for a nice 1st turn/ second turn anti tank/mc shoot off! it does work well. with the new nids changing the meta lists then we may see more people use them. seeing as they have lost eternal warrior and quite alot are T4 with 3+ wounds then insta death is going to give you great economy of force. 3's and 2's and dead - got to love that! even other MC 6 wounds? i can hit 14 ap3 or better long range guns a turn now. 1st turn is the best turn to use them i would suggest or you may not get to use it at all. Dont just buy 1 tho - this single one will always miss - sods law!


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## Gandalf the Black

I must say that the HKM is almost a must in most games under 1000 when the enemy has many transports like rhinos. In the first turn take out the power armoured wolf guard ready to roar towards your lines. Just taking out their transports 1st turn is a nice touch.


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## xMAULx

In mass 1st round of barrage they are good tactic. But it comes down to the dice cause ive had them work well and have had them miss completely, but the more the better :biggrin: They are great if you have points to spend them on.


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## Colonel Wolf

chromedog said:


> It's Hunter-Killer missile, not Hunter Seeker.
> 
> It's an extra weapon that has to be destroyed in order to stop your tank firing (if unfired).
> Just like that second storm bolter on a rhino.
> 
> Can SM dreads take HKs? (I know the ironclad can take 2 of them, and GK dreads can).


Interesting. We had a big discussion about this at the club and there was an opinion that the HK counts as an extra weapon even if fired, as the mounting rail/launch tube or whatever would still be there. Seemed a bit cheesy to me but made a kind of sense. It was claimed the GW had ruled informally on that one but {of course} hadn't written it down anywhere.

For IG players, the benifit of Pask's +1 would also apply.


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## Cyklown

I've never seen anything to that effect anywhere.
Stormbolters are much better if you want to not get immobilized by a single weapon destroyed.


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## Reign274

If I have 10 points laying around, and absolutely nothing better to do with them (Vehicles already have dozer blades, and various other things like that), I'll stick one on. First round area terrain or reserves will screw this up, even when AP gets in (against all but TEQ). If people play intelligently, they won't even blink when the missile hits them. But if they put a rhino out in the open, I say, fire at will! You might as well try, despite the odds. 

If it isn't fired first turn, though, the unlimited range then becomes of little worth. It's only one shot, and one time only. You still need a 4+ to pen a rhino, and that's about as light as you can get on a vehicle. If you miss the hit roll, it was just a waste of 10 points. Though it does have a 11% chance of wrecking/exploding with one missile, unless I'm reading the combat calculator wrong, which I don't think I am.


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