# Codex: Khorne Daemonkin



## venomlust

It appears to be real!

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/03/this-weeks-releases-codex-khorne.html



> Whoa, a new codex is coming this weekend, codex Khorne Daemonkin. I can already see that this might very well lead into the other chaos gods as well, which is something everyone has really been looking forward to for years. This is going to be rather exciting.
> 
> 
> This is not really a rumor at this point, as I have many sources sending it to me.
> 
> 
> via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
> Codex: Khorne Daemonkin
> 120pg hardback Codex. Rules for fielding a combined force of Khornate Chaos Space Marines with Daemons of Khorne.
> £30
> 
> Warhammer 40,000 Datacards: Khorne Daemonkin
> 45 reference cards; 36 tactical objective cards; and 9 large-format ‘Blood for the Blood God’ cards.
> 
> Khorne Daemonkin Warband
> 10 Chaos Space Marines; 5 Possessed Chaos Space Marines; 5 Chaos Terminators; a Chaos Helbrute; 3 Bloodcrushers of Khorne; 12 Khorne Berserkers; and a Resin Herald of Khorne.
> £140
> 
> 
> Also New Citadel model cases
> Skirmish – 100 infatry size case
> Battle – 200 infantry case
> Crusader – 400 infantry case



HELL YES!

This is me right now:

pFlcqWQVVuU


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## Nordicus

Hmm I'm not too fussed about this I must admit - I think it's a weird step to take. Why not just combine the two dexes to one big Chaos codex, instead of this weird hybrid step?

I think it feels like a half-assed solution to a bigger problem. I'm guessing the plan is now to reveal 4 codecies, with marines and daemons in each?


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## Charandris

The cases sound interesting, how many models does a standard case hold? (The £35 one?)


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## venomlust

Nordicus said:


> Hmm I'm not too fussed about this I must admit - I think it's a weird step to take. Why not just combine the two dexes to one big Chaos codex, instead of this weird hybrid step?
> 
> I think it feels like a half-assed solution to a bigger problem. I'm guessing the plan is now to reveal 4 codecies, with marines and daemons in each?


Who knows what their plans are? In all likelihood the rules will suck anyway, let's be honest. But I don't even care, this is _exactly_ the army I wanted. Not that I couldn't play it before by using the allies matrix, but this is something new and exciting.

I would hope that this format doesn't necessarily replace the Khorne-themed aspects of the CSM/Daemons codices. But who knows? It would allow them to release like 6 fucking books, so that might be right up their alley.


*edit*

Here's the big question I have, though: As Battle Brothers, will Khorne-CSM and Khorne-Daemons units/Independent Characters finally be able to join each other? The current rules prevent that, and that's always gimped our abilities when allying.


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## Brother Cato

Before anyone points out any working URL's:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Fluffy-Bunny-Kittens

...and you get the exact same result.

OT: I guess those "Book of Khorne" rumors were true after all. So hopefully the other three gods will get theirs soon enough.


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## venomlust

It would be great if there's a new unit option, or two (or ten :biggrin. New models seems pretty unlikely, but you never know! As has been said before, I think we can count on something good for the new Bloodthirster(s). But I suppose I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same rules as before.

I really hope they continue with these for the other 3 gods. A Tzeentch book would be very exciting, as well. Hell, they all would.


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## Brother Cato

venomlust said:


> It would be great if there's a new unit option, or two (or ten :biggrin. New models seems pretty unlikely, but you never know! As has been said before, I think we can count on something good for the new Bloodthirster(s). But I suppose I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same rules as before.
> 
> I really hope they continue with these for the other 3 gods. A Tzeentch book would be very exciting, as well. Hell, they all would.


Being cynical and knowing GW, they'll publish a Book for Nurgle and then give up :biggrin:


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## venomlust

Brother Cato said:


> Being cynical and knowing GW, they'll publish a Book for Nurgle and then give up :biggrin:


:laugh: Let's not pretend that isn't entirely possible.


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## frenchi861

I can't beleive that the red shirt just told me the true!!! I am so happy now!! Now, lets see what will be inside because a codex will not change the rule for assaulting! Now I hope for better bloodletter, better rule for bloodthirster...

Anything on the ‘Blood for the Blood God’ cards?


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## venomlust

frenchi861 said:


> I can't beleive that the red shirt just told me the true!!! I am so happy now!! Now, lets see what will be inside because a codex will not change the rule for assaulting! Now I hope for better bloodletter, better rule for bloodthirster...
> 
> Anything on the ‘Blood for the Blood God’ cards?


Just speculation, at this point. I can imagine the units getting more frenzied as the game progresses, maybe with some close combat bonuses or something.


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## frenchi861

A kind of Power From Pain table but for crazy frenzy people! Sound cool but not that great. But I still hope for the best!


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## venomlust

frenchi861 said:


> A kind of Power From Pain table but for crazy frenzy people! Sound cool but not that great. But I still hope for the best!


That's all we can do!


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## Brother Cato

This is gonna sound like complete and total Heresy, but you think instead of Sorcerers you think we might see the first Tabletop appearance of Bloodfathers*?

*In layman's, Khornate Sorcerers. While most mentions stem from WHFB, there is already at least one known to 40K, and is canon.


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## Zion

I have one small problem with this rumor:

if it's a codex that's dropping this week, where is the teaser video?

I'm betting at most it's a formation(s) or a datasheet(s) in the WD and that's it.


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## Nordicus

Zion said:


> I have one small problem with this rumor:
> 
> if it's a codex that's dropping this week, where is the teaser video?
> 
> I'm betting at most it's a formation(s) or a datasheet(s) in the WD and that's it.


I agree with this one.


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## venomlust

It seems more likely that it will be announced in this week's White Dwarf, and then released one week later. If there's a book coming, I mean.


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## Zion

venomlust said:


> It seems more likely that it will be announced in this week's White Dwarf, and then released one week later. If there's a book coming, I mean.


If it is a release next week that means Friday would be pre-orders, which means the teaser should be out today.


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## venomlust

Zion said:


> If it is a release next week that means Friday would be pre-orders, which means the teaser should be out today.


You better be wrong about this! :ireful2: I'm far too excited to be let down!


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## venomlust

Brother Cato said:


> Before anyone points out any working URL's:
> 
> http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Fluffy-Bunny-Kittens
> 
> ...and you get the exact same result.
> 
> OT: I guess those "Book of Khorne" rumors were true after all. So hopefully the other three gods will get theirs soon enough.


The difference is, if you use the url http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Khorne-Daemonkin-eng

it will redirect you to

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Khorne-Daemonkin-ENG

Note the lower case to upper case "correction" in the URL.

If you type http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/i-love-to-fart it will stay the same when you reach the error screen.

Now, I don't know if this means dick, but it is interesting. I know nothing about the internets.


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## Zion

venomlust said:


> You better be wrong about this! :ireful2: I'm far too excited to be let down!


Always temper excitement with caution and low expectations.


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## Brother Cato

Zion said:


> Always temper excitement with caution and low expectations.


Oh hey look, it's that picture I linked in an earlier discussion :biggrin:



venomlust said:


> The difference is, if you use the url http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Khorne-Daemonkin-eng
> 
> it will redirect you to
> 
> http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Khorne-Daemonkin-ENG
> 
> Note the lower case to upper case "correction" in the URL.
> 
> If you type http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/i-love-to-fart it will stay the same when you reach the error screen.
> 
> Now, I don't know if this means dick, but it is interesting. I know nothing about the internets.


I can't notice much, HO seems to be shortening the weblinks - they work, but they correct themselves once you click the links, so...


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## venomlust

Zion said:


> Always temper excitement with caution and low expectations.


The one you call Venomlust is no more. He bashed himself to death with a tome of Chaos, which is the CSM 'dex and Daemons 'dex rubber banded together.


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## Zion

@Brother Cato I think HO truncates links to keep them from taking up too much space.

And yes, it is the image you've used before. I've used it too. Mostly because people seem to listen to the pretty pictures when they say it more than when I say the exact same thing.


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## venomlust

Zion said:


> @Brother Cato I think HO truncates links to keep them from taking up too much space.
> 
> And yes, it is the image you've used before. I've used it too. Mostly because people seem to listen to the pretty pictures when they say it more than when I say the exact same thing.


Why would the link for the codex with the -eng extension change to -ENG? Adding that extension to any other made up URL doesn't change it that way. I added it to the end of i-like-to-fart to check, and it didn't :laugh:.


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## Brother Cato

Zion said:


> @Brother Cato I think HO truncates links to keep them from taking up too much space.
> 
> And yes, it is the image you've used before. I've used it too. Mostly because people seem to listen to the pretty pictures when they say it more than when I say the exact same thing.


That they do. And yes. Anyway, I understand the Science behind it, but I'm still not convinced it's a reliable method, given any kind of nonsense gets you a 404 Page. To use my example, it means GW's Pre-Orders for next week are Fluffy Bunny Kittens in place of bloodthirsty Khorne Berzerkers.

All that said though, the White Dwarf hints for next week seem to be carrying forth the Khorne theme. This actually makes the idea of a Book of Khorne credible, though I would still say it is not certain.

Then again, GW has to put SOMETHING up for sale next week - even if it is just reboxed Khorne Berzerkers.


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## venomlust

Brother Cato said:


> Oh hey look, it's that picture I linked in an earlier discussion :biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't notice much, HO seems to be shortening the weblinks - they work, but they correct themselves once you click the links, so...


As I mentioned, the lower-to-upper-case correction that happens automatically for that link only. That was my only point, which doesn't really provide much evidence for anything, but if it isn't "real" in some way, why would it happen? I know I'm grasping at straws, here.


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## Zion

I still think we're more likely to just see WD rules with new kits since the WD last week advertised new rules this week.


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## Brother Cato

venomlust said:


> As I mentioned, the lower-to-upper-case correction that happens automatically for that link only. That was my only point, which doesn't really provide much evidence for anything, but if it isn't "real" in some way, why would it happen? I know I'm grasping at straws, here.


We're all grasping at straws. So far there's been no Trailer and there's only been a rather dubious cover leak.

But anyway I did check - the link does capitalise. Still, it could be a website error or somesuch, like the artifacting that started the Plastic Horus Heresy rumors. If that's the case, we can probably predict what's coming for Plastic Sisters :biggrin:


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## venomlust

Zion said:


> I still think we're more likely to just see WD rules with new kits since the WD last week advertised new rules this week.


That much they can't take away from us. I'm excited for those, no matter what they are. Either CSM or Daemons, if they're for Khorne units I'm covered.


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## Zion

Hastings started the plastic HH rumors actually.


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## GuiltySparc

hmm, i don't currently have any demons in my (mostly) khornate box...that would be a fun thing to add in if the rules are good.


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## otasolgryn

well... if the book is 30 pounds, it damn well better have more than a few formations and stuff.

or i sure aint shelling out.

Last of those was the black legion and that was kind of a bust 

but it would be SOOOO cool with a book for each god.

expensive? yes, very.

game balanced? no idea.

awesome and stylish? ohhh yes!


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## MidnightSun

Oh, I won't even care about the fluff behind it if they do a campaign box for the Van Horne's World Incursion; no idea what they'd add for GK, but some Formations are _sorely_ wanted; Daemons could get some plastic Flesh Hounds, a handful of Bloodletters and the Bloodthirster.


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## otasolgryn

plastic hounds, yes please.

well i got my hounds locked down, but the current gw models are-..... well lets just say i guess they cant sell too many.


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## venomlust

From that guy nightfury in the comments section of the Natfka post:



> I told ya'll a couple weeks ago Chaos would be getting supplement codex for each of the 4 "factions" i just didn't have a time table, i saw pictures of khornate models last week but with no other opposing models contrasting them i figured it was just endtimes fantasy stuff. ill try to find out if this is the codex release kicking off the next campaign, would be nice as I'm excited to get a couple more LE HQ's


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## Brother Cato

So in short, there should be some hope for the often maligned Tzeench and Slannesh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J6-3l3hCm0


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## Zion

venomlust said:


> From that guy nightfury in the comments section of the Natfka post:


So NOT a "codex" then.

You know, since supplements don't stand on their own like a codex does.


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## venomlust

We shall see! :laugh:

*edit*

Though if the number of pages is accurate, that definitely suggests more content than a "mere" supplement.


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## bitsandkits

But if this is true doesnt that kill the rumour of new Berserkers and juggernaut riding chaos marines?


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## GuiltySparc

bitsandkits said:


> But if this is true doesnt that kill the rumour of new Berserkers and juggernaut riding chaos marines?


I had the same thought.


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## Zion

bitsandkits said:


> But if this is true doesnt that kill the rumour of new Berserkers and juggernaut riding chaos marines?


Unless they're whats getting rules in the WD.


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## frenchi861

When I talked with the red shirt, he said Codex. My answer was "you mean supplement or Dataslates?". He was sure it was Codex. And it was Sunday, before this thread or rumours appear.

While I didn't beleive him at this time, everything he said seems right! But it's still rumours!


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## venomlust

Well, I imagine he'd know a week or two in advance, that seems reasonable. That being said, the manager at my local GW was sure Imperial Knights could be taken by CSM (before they came out) so they obviously don't know _all_ the details about releases ahead of time.


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## frenchi861

Can't wait to know more about all this. I just hope for good rule that can make chaos rush look cooler and more competitive!


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## Mossy Toes

venomlust said:


> Khorne Daemonkin Warband
> 10 Chaos Space Marines; 5 Possessed Chaos Space Marines; 5 Chaos Terminators; a Chaos Helbrute; 3 Bloodcrushers of Khorne; 12 Khorne Berserkers; and a Resin Herald of Khorne.
> £140


So... a grab bag who's who of units I'm never going to play. _Awesome._

(ok, the CSM, Helbrute, and Termis are only mediocre)



Nordicus said:


> Hmm I'm not too fussed about this I must admit - I think it's a weird step to take. Why not just combine the two dexes to one big Chaos codex, instead of this weird hybrid step?


That would be... a heavy codex. Combined daemons/CSM mini-dexes would have at least 4 books, even if just supplements drawing half from each.



Brother Cato said:


> Being cynical and knowing GW, they'll publish a Book for Nurgle and then give up


Shhh. Or a "Black Legion" codex then no other First Founding legion? Or an Iyanden Eldar Craftworld and no other Craftworlds? Or...


Big hope for this one: Daemons and Marked units of the same gods able to join each others' units. Formations. Formations galore.


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## Nordicus

Mossy Toes said:


> That would be... a heavy codex. Combined daemons/CSM mini-dexes would have at least 4 books, even if just supplements drawing half from each.


Aye it would, but at this point I find it unrealistic that they would release 4 of these books, a long with a stand alone Daemon and a stand alone Chaos Marine dex. Call me cynic, but I fear the same as others - That they make this one, a Nurgle one and then they stop - Giving us a half-assed attempt at combining Chaos instead of releasing new core books and a supplement for combining them.


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## bitsandkits

Zion said:


> Unless they're whats getting rules in the WD.


would seem kinda poor ass timing to release a Khorne codex and leave out two new very khorne marine units from it? if GWs current formula is to be the norm then we would see WD rules with the new units in weeks one and two and then a codex at the end of it followed by a week of clam packed stuff, the box set of models for demonkin includes 12 berserkers which is a significant number as that is the size of the current unit (3xsprues of 4) as opposed to a unit of 10 which? not to mention we are coming up to easter, which historically contains a big hitter for 40k.

dont get me wrong a chaos codex with deamons and marines is very welcome, but to really drive sales a codex really needs new minis, even if the new minis are revamps of old units, still i think we will know for sure at some point today.


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## venomlust

Please take these tidbits with a butt-load of salt, but another "some guy" in the Natfka comments section (Endemion) apparently has the WD and made the following comments:

Endemion on the purpose/usage of the Blood for the Blood God cards:


> Sadly no, just a new "Army Wide" Blood Tithe rule, keep a running tally of *All* unit deaths, these are points you can spend of special Khornate boons, including summoning Daemons, up to and including a Bloodthirster (One variant of which has a "D" Str melee weapon).


Endemion on the units available in the codex:


> Guessing from all the stuff hinted at/talked about/in pictures in the White Dwarf as it's not actually stated 100% for most of them, it'll be...
> Chaos Lord
> Normal Marines
> Terminators
> Forgefiend
> Maulerfiend
> Defiler
> All the Khorne Daemons
> Soul Grinder
> 
> That's all that's mentioned that I can see, could be other stuff like Raptors/Obliterators etc but just not mentioned in white dwarf.
> 
> Does hint that all the Daemons might *not* have Daemonic Instability


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## venomlust

When asked if there was any mention of Berzerkers on Juggernauts, he replies:



> Nope, it's mostly just hints about what's in the Codex, while talking about their special rule. I did forget cultists though, they are in there as well.
> 
> Even The White Dwarf Bloodthirster rules are the ones to go with Codex Daemons, they aren't the rules for them from this new Khornate book.


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## mayegelt

Ok the rumour mill on this one is rather odd.
Having been discussing the new Necron stuff with friends I have in 1 of the new local stores. I got a few of the rumour mill things that have been being said...

1) Elite CSM Unit (maybe there version of possessed) that have Hellblades.
_If true it would be kinda cool to have a unit that is mid possession by bloodletters, and might make a bit on sense having a unit that contains the daemonic equal of a powersword. Though I would guess more likely would be a Frostaxe equal like SW get but in the form of a chainaxe._

2) Maulerfiends that are marked with Khorne.
_Again if true it would be a bonus, though just a small one._

3) CSM units will be able to have icon/instrument style items like Daemons can to help summon daemonic deep strikers near them. 
_This could be very useful if bikers, raptors or squads in rhinos could have, or if the tanks themselves could have them._

4) Formation perk that means deepstriking daemons who are deepstriking off of CSM icons will be able to assault on the turn they deepstrike (mainly because of lack of shooting attacks mean they need something).
_This if true would be a huge buff, also I guess depending how it was worded could mean that a summoned deepstriking blood thirster would be able to charge..._

5) Formation would give all units Rage + Furious Charge (I know CSM get 1 and Khorne Daemons get the other, but this would just give them all both I guess). Also sub rumour of this is that they may get fleet or crusader, to help them run down the field faster.
_Might be rather powerful, but if they are making a codex purely for this I guess factoring in any costs of such buffs wouldn't be to hard. And it isn't like that new Necron superformation hasn't got really insane rules for everyone having improved regeneration._

6) Some CSM options removed such as obliterators or havocs.
_Would be sad to see them go, but then again I guess they cant just have the whole of 2 books pushed in to 1._

7) 1 or other of the Defiler or Soul Grinder, likely the grinder.
_Kinda no point in both and as the defiler is the worst, they will probably get the other._


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## venomlust

mayegelt said:


> Ok the rumour mill on this one is rather odd.
> Having been discussing the new Necron stuff with friends I have in 1 of the new local stores. I got a few of the rumour mill things that have been being said...
> 
> 1) Elite CSM Unit (maybe there version of possessed) that have Hellblades.
> _If true it would be kinda cool to have a unit that is mid possession by bloodletters, and might make a bit on sense having a unit that contains the daemonic equal of a powersword. Though I would guess more likely would be a Frostaxe equal like SW get but in the form of a chainaxe._
> 
> 2) Maulerfiends that are marked with Khorne.
> _Again if true it would be a bonus, though just a small one._
> 
> 3) CSM units will be able to have icon/instrument style items like Daemons can to help summon daemonic deep strikers near them.
> _This could be very useful if bikers, raptors or squads in rhinos could have, or if the tanks themselves could have them._
> 
> 4) Formation perk that means deepstriking daemons who are deepstriking off of CSM icons will be able to assault on the turn they deepstrike (mainly because of lack of shooting attacks mean they need something).
> _This if true would be a huge buff, also I guess depending how it was worded could mean that a summoned deepstriking blood thirster would be able to charge..._
> 
> 5) Formation would give all units Rage + Furious Charge (I know CSM get 1 and Khorne Daemons get the other, but this would just give them all both I guess). Also sub rumour of this is that they may get fleet or crusader, to help them run down the field faster.
> _Might be rather powerful, but if they are making a codex purely for this I guess factoring in any costs of such buffs wouldn't be to hard. And it isn't like that new Necron superformation hasn't got really insane rules for everyone having improved regeneration._
> 
> 6) Some CSM options removed such as obliterators or havocs.
> _Would be sad to see them go, but then again I guess they cant just have the whole of 2 books pushed in to 1._
> 
> 7) 1 or other of the Defiler or Soul Grinder, likely the grinder.
> _Kinda no point in both and as the defiler is the worst, they will probably get the other._


That stuff sounds too good to be true, man!


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## Mossy Toes

Nordicus said:


> Aye it would, but at this point I find it unrealistic that they would release 4 of these books, a long with a stand alone Daemon and a stand alone Chaos Marine dex. Call me cynic, but I fear the same as others - That they make this one, a Nurgle one and then they stop - Giving us a half-assed attempt at combining Chaos instead of releasing new core books and a supplement for combining them.


Quite possibly. I don't think such a combination would work for the long term, though, given the Undivided/renegade factions of CSM. Unless you expect them to post a Codex just for Crimson Slaughter and Black Legion... (well, and Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, Night Lords, Red Corsairs, and a whole scrum of renegades...)



mayegelt said:


> 4) Formation perk that means deepstriking daemons who are deepstriking off of CSM icons will be able to assault on the turn they deepstrike (mainly because of lack of shooting attacks mean they need something).
> This if true would be a huge buff, also I guess depending how it was worded could mean that a summoned deepstriking blood thirster would be able to charge...


Please and thank you! (please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand please Skarbrand)


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## Nordicus

Mossy Toes said:


> I don't think such a combination would work for the long term, though, given the Undivided/renegade factions of CSM. Unless you expect them to post a Codex just for Crimson Slaughter and Black Legion... (well, and Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, Night Lords, Red Corsairs, and a whole scrum of renegades...)


I think it would probably work better than this, if they do it somewhere along these lines:

- Chaos Space Marine codex; legion tactics
- Daemons Codex
- Supplement (Chaos Combined or whatever) for combining units from both codexes, with either percentages of each army or just formations.

That would give the players the options to go with Marines from a certain legion, along with the daemons of their choosing, taking advantage of both formations and legion tactics.

But I'm going off-topic now. I just hope the cynic in my is wrong.


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## otasolgryn

damn im looking forward to what we are actually getting....

this waiting aint collecting any skulls!!


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## Kreuger

venomlust said:


> That stuff sounds too good to be true, man!


So that list of rules that @mayegelt posted is basically Chaos Codex 3.5.


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## The Son of Horus

I'm surprised this is even subject to speculation still.

As a retailer, I put my preorders in for this today with my rep. No new models, but the Codex is a supplement for both Daemons and CSM. The release is the Blood Tide of Khorne box (a 20% savings over buying the components individually and a convenient way to add one of each of the Khorne daemons that isn't a Bloodthirster to your CSM collection), the Codex, and the datacards. 

The book doesn't repeat rules found in either Daemons or CSM, but does contain new rules for the new Bloodthirsters as well as formations, detachments, a warlord trait table, relics, and some new army special rules.


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## Nordicus

And it's confirmed:


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## Mossy Toes

*CENSORED*

So, this is a confirmation of sorts. A valuable framework by which to predict the future actions of GW for at least 3 more Chaos Gods. Do I really want to devote $200 to getting all 4 Gods as they come out? I could say "at least it isn't the $70 expense of a core Codex," but I still feel like that's disingenuous.

I mean, what is it like to enter the hobby these days, with mini-dexes and formations and supplements galore proliferating? Is GW scaring off "growth," or "expansion," in favor of gripping existing fans by the wallet even deeper?

Well, yeah, duh. GW has shooed off those who don't have the disposable income for the hobby a while ago (and the rest of us, at least those of us who complain about unit prices, are left wondering if we are in that group who was scared off--or at least, ought to have been. That we weren't by desperation as to drop the hobby implies that we are still part of the GW audience. Such are the intolerable conditions of Late* Capitalism). Is recognizing that this deflationary spiral of feeling hounded in order to expand our personal spending capability, while facing an ever-decreasing spending capability, is a system that cannot last-

*"Late Capitalism," I say--hopefully? (see the last paragraph of section 3 to contextualize my remark, though I feel the whole article is worth reading, so deeply does is tie into my own personal values)

Damn it. I feel like a cultist of Lovecraftian means and ends, blabbering in the language of "Cthulhu fhtagn!" whenever I start talking about the steady extortion of more and more spending power from the middle class by the upper class (and that I am in a position to raise this concern at all is a product of my middle-class raising, lower-class folks [though being no worse of _people_] rarely factoring into the concerns of middle-class folks; they have always suffered, so who are we to question the "justice" of such a social structure? [but at the same time, is it just that the upper class, though such means as their own position allows them, aggregate such a proportion of wealth to themselves as to inevitably drive those who possessed the middling position to the lower such, driving those-who-were-used-to-comfort to lash back against them]); to talk about it is to draw the ire of the idea-structures, seductive in their simplicity, imposed by said upper class via their ownership of the media through which we experience-

Fuck-damn. I suckered myself this. Nobody was talking about socialism except for me.

Anyways, *GAMES WORKSHOP AS THE MINDLESS EXTRACTIONARY ARM OF VARIOUS ASPECTS OF OUR CULTURE AS A WHOLE*

-AND-

I am very excited for this release, and will probably purchase it, since I have not yet sunk to such depths as I am wholly incapable of doing so. _YET_.


----------



## Mossy Toes

Damn. That got a lot deeper into my own personal schema for the construction of reality than I meant it to.


----------



## GuiltySparc

Hmm, I already have a unit of terminators and zerkers, is it worth it to buy the box any way for the demons and possessed? Though it might be nice to have more than 5 termies.


----------



## Mossy Toes

GuiltySparc said:


> Hmm, I already have a unit of terminators and zerkers, is it worth it to buy the box any way for the demons and possessed? Though it might be nice to have more than 5 termies.


Assuming the units stated in the first page of this thread are the actual units listed in the box... I would say "no," honestly. Bloodcrushers are hideously expensive for models that can be Instant-Deathed by a single S8+ hit, Possessed rely on a random D3 roll to be at all useful, and Zerkers are general underperformers. A Herald of Khorne is only useful if on a Juggernaut, or in this context if able to join non-Daemon units (which is as of yet unknown, though no rumors have as of yet hinted towards it).


----------



## bitsandkits

GuiltySparc said:


> Hmm, I already have a unit of terminators and zerkers, is it worth it to buy the box any way for the demons and possessed? Though it might be nice to have more than 5 termies.


only you can answer that


----------



## DaisyDuke

Man I hope this is not the big let down I think it is going to be. We really don't need a £30 codex to bring a £70 model and bigger bases for bezerkers into 40k.


----------



## GuiltySparc

bitsandkits said:


> only you can answer that


i wasn't really asking from a monetary standpoint but rather from an army list standpoint. I'm not sure i would ever be looking to field 10 terminators and 20 zerkers, though it might be nice to have the spare terminators bits for more wysiwyg terminator squads.


----------



## bitsandkits

DaisyDuke said:


> Man I hope this is not the big let down I think it is going to be. We really don't need a £30 codex to bring a £70 model and bigger bases for bezerkers into 40k.


what makes you think it will be a let down and if you dont need it what does it matter if it is a let down?


----------



## GuiltySparc

bitsandkits said:


> what makes you think it will be a let down and if you dont need it what does it matter if it is a let down?


To echo what others have said, if there aren't some special rules to make it easier for the units to get into combat then i think it would be a little bit of a let down. We'd have a whole codex of giant beatsticks that can't really deliver to their potential.

Or it could be a let down in that its not really anything new but just a mash up of the existing rules from the current 'dexes.

With that said, i'm still pretty excited. :good:


----------



## venomlust

Man, I feel you @Mossy Toes. Likely due to a similar upbringing, I agree with you assessment of the situation. While definitely excited, it is a disappointing release because 1) it looks like we will need 3 books and 2) those books and the units therein could go unupdated for a long time.

That being said, it's not like said units could possibly be worse, right? RIGHT?! And it's still all totally Blood for the Blood God and stuff! That's what I love, that's why I play Chaos.

Special edition for $165? FML, I'm actually tempted. I must be fucking insane. GW broke me!:shok::crazy::angel: Gah!


----------



## Kreuger

venomlust said:


> Man, I feel you @Mossy Toes. Likely due to a similar upbringing, I agree with you assessment of the situation. While definitely excited, it is a disappointing release because 1) it looks like we will need 3 books and 2) those books and the units therein could go unupdated for a long time.


While I agree the inflationary nature of capitalism is destructive to the vast majority of human beings laboring under that system and to the world on it exists, I think we need to reel in the dialogue here. GW are as guilty of playing by those rules as any other successful corporation but not more so.

And in this case GW are apparently damned either way. Chaos players have clamored for God specific books since 2nd edition condensed the 2 _Realms of Chaos books_ into a single Codex. 

Personally, they're right on track. God focused books. More daemon engines. New chaos models. I don't like all the models but hey it's an improvement. And some of the newer models are awesome (ex. Raptors/Warp Talons). 

Sure, costs have relatively gone up, but one doesn't need all 4 books. Buy the one(s) which fit your tastes and models, and let the others go for a while. 

I think the only legitimate reasons for complaints are going to be bad rules, poor models, and high cost. 

High cost is a given with GW, so I would argue we should factor that out, leaving poor quality products. Which is less likely. 

GW's codex quality seems to have consistently improved over the years both in binding and graphic design. So either the rules or models could be weak. 

Anything else sounds suspiciously like whining.


----------



## venomlust

It's indeed too soon for whining, and I was doing a bit of it. I'm sure I'll be happy with the book, but I wanted more out of it.


----------



## Kreuger

venomlust said:


> ... but I wanted more out of it.


Heh. Well, Chaos will gladly accept your soul in exchange for what you felt was missing.


----------



## venomlust

kreuger said:


> heh. Well, chaos will gladly accept your soul in exchange for what you felt was missing.


Deal!


----------



## mayegelt

As i said with my rumours things, they are just rumours, though hopefully some will be true.
Though with 36 tactical objective cards, and 8 large-format ‘Blood for the Blood God’ cards in the Datacards: Khorne Daemonkin thing, then that is a lot of unique objectives for them and something special. Maybe a lot better tailored to the fact that they arent a shooty army and have no sorcerers to cast things with.

Will also be very interesting to see if the daemons who in the daemon codex had rewards, will have different rewards or the same. As one of the major bonuses of the CSM Prince was Blackmace (of course not for Khorne), and many people would trade their soul for Axe of Blind Fury for a Daemon Prince (or Bloodthirster / Herald) in a Daemon army as the Daemon Weapon rules are so much better than even the Greater Reward weapon (wooo master crafted +1S and AP2...)
Equally though a CSM character having access to lesser or greater rewards for the weapon would be a very cheep mastercrafted powerweapon for them if they could get it.

Hopefully like with Crimson Slaughter, Khorne Daemonkin will have their own variant on Possessed as both the CS and CSM ones are terible. This could be rumour 1 came from (the elite guys with Hellblades), what does seem a lot more likely with that necron formation that allows you to choose an ability on each turn to have rather than random.

Another thought would be about with a Daemon army you have to roll on that Warp Table each turn and see if the gods want to blow you up. Will this combined force have something like that or not...

Also of course the main story of the last couple of days was these 8 Blood Cards that seem to be able to "Help with Summoning" and other things, that could be the rumours 3-4 from my list back on page 5.
Though in either case a Thirster Variant with a D strength weapon might be nice, though i suspect it will be a horrible trade off like it will be a mega smash or something where he can swap all his attacks for 1 strength D attack. Or like the CS Sword it will be a case that he will need to get something like 8 kills with it with it slowly powering up like at 2 kills +1S, 4 kills AP1, 6 kills Instant Death, 8 kills D weapon.


----------



## Zion

From Dakka:


> Blood for the Blood God Rule
> 
> For every Unit that is killed enemy or friend you gain a Blood point for it.
> You can spend your points once a turn to summon some daemons or give some cool abilities to your guys(fnp is mentioned).
> For 8 Points you will get a Bloodthirster for free.
> 
> Units
> 
> Nearly every CSM unit is metioned except obliterators and psi-guys.
> Every khorne daemon is in there.
> 
> They are talking about different formations with different skills.


----------



## Zion

Yes, that _is_ S, but I1.



















EDIT: Updated to imgur.


----------



## mayegelt

So looks like from that you do still get daemonic rewards as they can all spend up to 50pts on lesser, greater and exalted rewards.
The idea of the blood cards seems interesting. Hopefully the cards are useful even at lower levels and maybe easier to earn than having to wipe out whole units, as that at times can be a bit of a git, espesially vs marines who like to run away then stop, or pesky tau and eldar who hide... or necrons who just get back up again and again...
Also looks like Daemonic Instability is still in as all 3 have it.
1 seems to Hate (Characters) and have adamantium will (the one with the S5 AP4 Flamer and soulbrand (soul fire... can never remember the rules name)
The top one seems to have Berserker, what I am not sure about, not having my book here to check if that is a thing... though could be as simple as Rampage or a new rule for them...


----------



## venomlust

Looks like Strength D was accurate, but as I suspected strikes at Initiative 1. Well, better than not getting strength D at all!

*edit*

Also, LawLz at Soul Blaze on the template attack from the big boy. :laugh: No Eternal Warrior on any of 'em, either.

At any rate, Insensate Rage all the way!

*edit 2*

In Engrish:


----------



## Zion

venomlust said:


> Looks like Strength D was accurate, but as I suspected strikes at Initiative 1. Well, better than not getting strength D at all!
> 
> *edit*
> 
> Also, LawLz at Soul Blaze on the template attack from the big boy. :laugh: No Eternal Warrior on any of 'em, either.
> 
> At any rate, Insensate Rage all the way!


Between his 3+/5++ and ability to spend 50 points of gifts (allowing him a chance to get some decent defensive gifts) I think I1 isn't _that_ bad. Especially since it's a regular MC with S.


----------



## venomlust

Zion said:


> Between his 3+/5++ and ability to spend 50 points of gifts (allowing him a chance to get some decent defensive gifts) I think I1 isn't _that_ bad. Especially since it's a regular MC with S.


I agree, and it's really a fair way of doing it. An assload of SD attacks at I9 would be a bit overpowered. He'd destroy pretty much anything in the game in the first turn of combat. Not that I'd cry about it if it had worked out that way :grin:.

Plus, Imperial Knights are WS4, I believe? Against WS10 that's 5's to hit, so hardy har har you goofy tin cans.


----------



## Zion

venomlust said:


> I agree, and it's really a fair way of doing it. An assload of SD attacks at I9 would be a bit overpowered. He'd destroy pretty much anything in the game in the first turn of combat. Not that I'd cry about it if it had worked out that way :grin:.
> 
> Plus, Imperial Knights are WS4, I believe? Against WS10 that's 5's to hit, so hardy har har you goofy tin cans.


I think they're WS4, yeah. Even if they're WS3 that's still 5s to hit.


----------



## GuiltySparc

cliff notes on strength D? Thats not ringing a bell in my (limited) rule book knowledge.


----------



## venomlust

GuiltySparc said:


> cliff notes on strength D? Thats not ringing a bell in my (limited) rule book knowledge.


Destroyer weapons.

Essentially, it is a strength of weapon in a class of its own. Armor saves can't be taken against strength D, but invuln and cover saves can, when applicable. Instead of rolling to wound, you roll a d6 on the D table:

1: no effect, on vehicles or non-vehicles

2-5: vs vehicles inflicts a penetrating hit that takes away d3 hull points instead of 1
vs. non-vehicles they lose d3 wounds instead of 1

6: vs. vehicles causes a penetrating hit that inflicts d6+6 hull points instead of 1, no saves of any kind are allowed (including invulns etc.)
vs. non-vehicles it causes d6+6 wounds with no saves of any kind allowed.


The catch is that (if I understand correctly) that wounds generated by the d6 table don't transfer over to the rest of the target unit. So you roll however many hits you got 1 by 1 on the D table to determine the effects on models, not the entire unit.


----------



## Zion

GuiltySparc said:


> cliff notes on strength D? Thats not ringing a bell in my (limited) rule book knowledge.


It's in the core rulebook. Basically instead of rolling to wound or pen you roll on a chart that looks like this:

Vehicle or Building
1 model is unharmed
2-5 model suffers d3 hull points
6 model suffers d6+6 hull points. No saves of any kind allowed

Non-Vehicle
1 model is unharmed
2-5 model suffers d3 wounds
6 model suffers d6+6 wounds. No saves of any kind allowed


----------



## GuiltySparc

well that sounds pretty excellent.


----------



## venomlust

GuiltySparc said:


> well that sounds pretty excellent.


It certainly can be. 3+ invulns sort of make a mockery of strength D, it seems, unless you get lucky and roll a 6. Good thing the Bloodthirster has so many attacks! :good:


----------



## Zion

venomlust said:


> It certainly can be. 3+ invulns sort of make a mockery of strength D, it seems, unless you get lucky and roll a 6. Good thing the Bloodthirster has so many attacks! :good:


6 base, 8 on the charge (I see what you did there GW).


----------



## mayegelt

If I use my Strength D weapon and use my USR 'Smash' and choose to make 1 attack at 2X my S, do I get Double D's... cos I think that is more Slaanesh's thing


----------



## venomlust

Zion said:


> 6 base, 8 on the charge (I see what you did there GW).


That just sounds so freakin' awesome. It's not as if I even fight Knight titans, like, ever. I am going to split my buddy's SM Chapter Master like kindling. Shield Eternal be damned, I'm gonna roll a 6 sooner or later.


----------



## Mossy Toes

Well, Fiends can drag a Knight down to attacking simultaneously with an Insensate Rage. That's not half bad, since the Knight ain't walking away, and it only hits on 5s... you're still probably gonna die without Invisibility and/or Grimoire on, though. And may well _with_ those on.


----------



## venomlust

Mossy Toes said:


> Well, Fiends can drag a Knight down to attacking simultaneously with an Insensate Rage. That's not half bad, since the Knight ain't walking away, and it only hits on 5s... you're still probably gonna die without Invisibility and/or Grimoire on, though. And may well _with_ those on.


Well, it's an option that at least has the chance of surviving the encounter. But you're right, probably more likely to die. Most likely due to stomps, I'd guess. Or the subsequent explosion.


----------



## Mossy Toes

venomlust said:


> Well, it's an option that at least has the chance of surviving the encounter. But you're right, probably more likely to die. Most likely due to stomps, I'd guess. Or the subsequent explosion.


Still an even swap, roughly, points wise. You come out more ahead if you haven't bought it, say, 2 Greater Rewards... and if they rest of your list just plain can't deal with a lone Knight, so much the better. Hah, if you can get a summoned Insensate Rage via units lost Blood Points...

Fielding 3 Insensate Rages, though, to take on an Adamantine Lance... plus, well, Be'lakor to give them a Shrouded-bubble--that could get expensive _faaaaast_. Money and points wise. And you'd run into limit Fiend issues.


----------



## venomlust

From Natfka:

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/03/...howComment=1426740789211#c6786789537119874980



> While this is not a lot of information on this new detachment from Codex: Khorne Daemonkin, this weeks White Dwarf gives an interesting look at just what it is supposed to do. Its called a Bloodhost Detachment, and brings with it multiple Bloodthirsters with more in the waiting as the Blood Tithe grows during the game. Lets take a look at the latest information drop from this weekends White Dwarf.
> 
> via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
> From WD-
> A Blood Host Detachment (the force organization chart in the codex) allows you to field two Bloodthirsters in your army. Also you get more as they can be summoned from the Blood Tithe.
> 
> The Blood Tithe is a special rule that allows you to gain Blood Tithe pts every time you kill or lose a unit.
> 
> Expending Blood Tithe pts gets you abilities which are on the 8 Blood God cards from the datacards set. The first one which is shown in the mag, is Infernal Contempt- which costs 1 Blood Tithe pt and grants all friendly units with the Blood from the Blood God special rule to gain Adamantium Will until the start of your next turn.
> 
> You can spend your points once a turn to summon some daemons or give abilities to your units
> 
> 8 Points you will get a Bloodthirster for free.


----------



## Uveron

Oh... that sounds good. 

So time for the Spam of Cheap units of Mutants! Kill them and summon the all-mighty Barry* or let me hold all the objectives! 

(*Barry is the first name of all Bloodthirsters )


----------



## Mossy Toes

Uveron said:


> Oh... that sounds good.
> 
> So time for the Spam of Cheap units of Mutants! Kill them and summon the all-mighty Barry* or let me hold all the objectives!
> 
> (*Barry is the first name of all Bloodthirsters )


Manilow, White... Bloodthirsters come in many terrifying forms.


----------



## otasolgryn

i cant quite figure out what to think about that formation...

on one hand its very deamon'ish, with th growing stronger thing, as the borders between reality and the imaterium fades..

on the other hand, its a bit of a nasty money grab... again.

have not made up my mind yet i must say


----------



## Mossy Toes

otasolgryn said:


> i cant quite figure out what to think about that formation...
> 
> on one hand its very deamon'ish, with th growing stronger thing, as the borders between reality and the imaterium fades..
> 
> on the other hand, its a bit of a nasty money grab... again.
> 
> have not made up my mind yet i must say


Well, structurally, Khornate daemons can't run Summoning lists, not having psykers. This goes a good way towards remedying such an issue, above and beyond "take Portalglyph, Riftbringer, and hope to roll the 'create a new unit' result on the Warp Storm" for Khornate summoning.


----------



## Nordicus

otasolgryn said:


> on the other hand, its a bit of a nasty money grab... again.


Or you know, it actually makes it interesting - As Mossy said above, this is the only way to summon outside of Psykers, so it fits the lore and makes for fun games.

A wee bit tired of hearing "oooh they just want my money" whenever something new gets released from GW. Not from you specifically, mind you, but they're a company that sells a product. You cannot possibly be surprised at the fact that new things are released to sell more stuff.


----------



## otasolgryn

when i gets my hands on the book, and read the new stuff, im sure i can get into the mood and feel reality break down as the deamons advance.

and this way of using summoning is alot less "money grab" than the summoning for every psyker.


----------



## Woodzee316

Nordicus said:


> A wee bit tired of hearing "oooh they just want my money" whenever something new gets released from GW. Not from you specifically, mind you, but they're a company that sells a product. You cannot possibly be surprised at the fact that new things are released to sell more stuff.


i agree with this although some don't like it at the end of the day it is a business. I live in Australia and if i let the cost of the game get to me then i would never play it. At the end of the day if you don't want to build an army using this book, then don't. then the hobby has cost you no extra. you can still use the Daemons/Chaos space marines codexes to build your chaos armies so you don't need to purchase it to continue with your armies.

me personally don't play using Korne so i won't get it. However when they do something with Tzeentch i will spend my money then. 

thus the hobby is only as expensive as you want to make it.


----------



## bitsandkits

otasolgryn said:


> when i gets my hands on the book, and read the new stuff, im sure i can get into the mood and feel reality break down as the deamons advance.
> 
> and this way of using summoning is alot less "money grab" than the summoning for every psyker.


well edited  

everything GW do is a "money grab" if by money grab you mean a device that ends in a sale to a customer,that is the very foundation of retail.

I dont know the ins and outs of the book, but anything that allows players more choice on what they can place on the field i think is a good thing,some GW hobbiests seriously suffer from a lack of imagination and a lack of effort when it comes to developing there own army ideas despite wanting a fluffy army,there is a culture of needing an "official" book before people will make there army,rather than just using there own initiative, even now many people will not use FW models in standard 40k. 

hopefully this codex is just the start and they will produce the other three chaos gods in relatively quick succession, and if anyone in GW is listening to this make the Glottkin useable in 40k , its such an impressive model it deserves a cross over.


----------



## DaisyDuke

So it would appear this is Codex: Bloodthirster.
Well if they have broken some rules to make them useable, I guess that's a good thing.
Hoping there's some good stuff for bezerkers.:crazy:


----------



## venomlust

From commenter BadTucker on Natfka:



> Got my white dwarf... so good , theres a boon of khorne rule for a formation called the slaughtercult - when you pay the tithe they give you two results from the table instead of one , then you pick what one you want.
> 
> You must use points correctly... so if you you gain 6 points and a herald costs 4 - you will loose your remaining points. no stacking...makes the 8 point bloodthirster harder to summon. 8 is the max points that can be held.
> 
> only the classic bloodthirster build (normal demon codex one or unfettered fury in this book) can be summoned by tithe rules.
> demonic rewards are the normal codex demon rewards.





> points are gained from unit deaths on both sides.... friend or foe, WD suggests you sacrifice your cultists appropriately  no word on vehicles though...but id assume they count


When asked about the contents of the Special Edition:



> counters are for wound markers/tithe counts etc... the coins are objective markers.





> seems bloodtithe is the codex wide rule... anything in that army or any formations etc have it. the slaughtercult seems to be its own detachment or formation. where they get a khone boon roll ( i think you can spend points on that) its a bit vague but it might be like the chaos boon table? just aimed at khorne insted!
> 
> yeah you can carry points over turn to turn but you can only amass a max of 8. if you spend them on something any remainder points are lost. start again next turn





> read again... turns out the slaughtercult pays tithe points and can pic two results from the table ( presumably if they have the points for it) insted of one result





> everything in chaos marine codex is in this pretty much, acording to the WD (mentions helldrakes and so on...) .... only things that wont will be sorcerors, other cults and characters.


----------



## venomlust

From user George Smiley at BoLS Lounge:




























I was really hoping there would be an art/painting book similar to the Space Wolves/Blood Angels special editions... would seem maybe there isn't based on that description. :cray:

And HOLY SHIT that is the coolest cover art on a codex in 40k! :victory:


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Omg so much to buy  !


----------



## GuiltySparc

woah, that cover art!

i liked the current codex cover a lot but this one is quite bitchin'!


----------



## mayegelt

Having a wonder about what their allies rules will be...

1) Same as CSM
2) Same as Daemon
3) Best of CSM and Daemon
4) Worst of CSM and Daemon
5) CSM as only allies
6) Daemon as only allies
7) CSM and Daemon as only allies
8) Unique new one
9) No allies at all

Also hoping that they do get their own unique rewards like the CS and BL books had for CSM, though would they do that for both the CSM guys for Chaos Artefacts and the Daemonic Hellforged Artefacts (maybe Hateforged Artefacts). Things like the Doomstone don't really fit the Khorne thing that well as it seems to be a cowardly thing by turning them in to gibbering wrecks rather than just kill them.


----------



## venomlust

Put to rest any notion of new Berzerkers in the boxed set:

via: www.waaaghgaming.de










And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the same as the Crimson Slaughter paint scheme? Maybe there are some subtle differences I can't discern without looking closely?

Also from the same blog, a much higher resolution image of the cover! God damn, man! It's so cool!


----------



## Nordicus

venomlust said:


> Maybe there are some subtle differences I can't discern without looking closely?


Not really: 
World eaters is red with brass trim.
Crimson Slaughter is red with gold trim.

GW paints their Crimson Slaughter very brightly, so you can hardly tell the difference when they paint the two themes. It's the same with their golds and brass, where they paint them very vividly making them look exactly alike.

We other painters however...


----------



## venomlust

Yours look ace, I gotta say.

This codex release seals the deal for what color scheme I'll be painting my army. Maybe not ALL red and brass, but mostly.

Also, if anyone is interested in buying this codex for less than MSRP on ebay, I just found this auction. Free shipping in the U.S.


----------



## mayegelt

Personally I don't like the army box. I am guessing the new formation they have will likely require a few things contained inside.

Bloodcrusers £33.50
Herald £15
Helbrute £33
10 Berserkers £23
10 Berserkers £23
5 Terminators £28
5 Possessed £20.50

You are getting £176 for £140 if bought from GW (though of course there are a lot of retailers who will sell for 10-20% cheaper, but of course they will sell the individuals for cheaper as well as the box.
Also if you factor in most people have a Helbrute already from the Dark Vengeance set, or if not could pick up one for only £7 on ebay with ease. That in it self kinda devalues the box by a lot. Also as Terminators are currently on the scrapheap it seems because they cost to much for what they do in most opinions, then it doesn't help.

However if like the Necron magical list of doom, then they will force you to buy all those things just to use the formation that is kinda required (like they did with Tomb blades, what I saw people selling for up to £50 to ship to the USA cos they couldn't get them in stock).


----------



## Mossy Toes

venomlust said:


> And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the same as the Crimson Slaughter paint scheme? Maybe there are some subtle differences I can't discern without looking closely?


Yeah, Crimson Slaughter also have all sorts of effects in glowy, ghost-like blue. It makes for pretty sharp pinpoints of contrast, every here and there...



mayegelt said:


> Bloodcrusers £33.50
> Herald £15
> Helbrute £33
> 10 Berserkers £23
> 10 Berserkers £23
> 5 Terminators £28
> 5 Possessed £20.50


Looks like 12 Zerkers and 10 CSM, to me.

Still, like I commented earlier, those are pretty junk units. Unless they make a unique Possessed table better than the Crimson Slaughter one... well, I'm still not going to field a solo Helbrute, or T4 W3 many-point Bloodcrushers who get ID'd with ease. And Termis/Zerkers are decent at best, before knowing what sort of buffs Zerkers will get from formations and the like.

And who is that Herald on foot supposed to join? One of the CSM squads? Please let this be an indication that ICs will be able to transplant into units that have the Mark/Daemon of Khorne rule interchangeably... not that GW thinks a Herald on foot is best suited to join Bloodcrushers.

Sorry to piss on the parade; there is just not a single unit in that box that excites me as a semi-competitive player. Ah well, fluffy Khornate players get their moment in the sun...


----------



## venomlust

Mossy Toes said:


> Yeah, Crimson Slaughter also have all sorts of effects in glowy, ghost-like blue. It makes for pretty sharp pinpoints of contrast, every here and there...
> 
> Looks like 12 Zerkers and 10 CSM, to me.
> 
> Still, like I commented earlier, those are pretty junk units. Unless they make a unique Possessed table better than the Crimson Slaughter one... well, I'm still not going to field a solo Helbrute, or T4 W3 many-point Bloodcrushers who get ID'd with ease. And Termis/Zerkers are decent at best, before knowing what sort of buffs Zerkers will get from formations and the like.
> 
> And who is that Herald on foot supposed to join? One of the CSM squads? Please let this be an indication that ICs will be able to transplant into units that have the Mark/Daemon of Khorne rule interchangeably... not that GW thinks a Herald on foot is best suited to join Bloodcrushers.
> 
> Sorry to piss on the parade; there is just not a single unit in that box that excites me as a semi-competitive player. Ah well, fluffy Khornate players get their moment in the sun...


Yeah it is a pretty craptastic box. At this point, I think I have so many minis that there's no boxed set I would buy for a Chaos army. Savings are nice, but still can't beat good ol' eBay or that China I hear so much about...


----------



## DaisyDuke

The csm and bezerkers have been given the bigger base size. 
On a plus note it looks like an excuse to finally get some demons.


----------



## venomlust

I think, more than almost anything else, I hope there's some way to buff/utilize Bloodletters more effectively. I have so many of the damn things. I guess summoning them will be cool and all (assuming this is possible), but maybe the rumor about accurate Deep Strikes via their standard or whatever will make them worth their weight in plastic.


----------



## venomlust

From the GW blog:



> It’s Friday, which means it must be time for a sneak peek at the front cover of White Dwarf 60, out tomorrow in Games Workshop stores, independent stockists and right here on the Games Workshop webstore. This week, Khorne maintains his grip on our favourite magazine, but this time it’s all about the Daemonkin, a new army for Warhammer 40,000.
> 
> Wait, a new army? Yes, you read that right, an army of Daemons and mortals united in their desire to spill blood and claim skulls for Khorne. You can find out more in tomorrow’s White Dwarf, which is also available as a digital download from the Black Library website.
> 
> Issue 60 also includes an in-depth look at what the Daemonkin are, an article on paying the Blood Tithe (it’s hilariously gory fun), a host of other new releases and full rules for using the new Bloodthirster models – all three of them – in your battles of Warhammer 40,000. Add to that our latest painting endeavours and our regular hobby-related musings and you’ve got another packed issue of White Dwarf.
> 
> White Dwarf is also available as eBook digital downloads from the Black Library website and through iBooks, while Warhammer: Visions is available to download for iPad and Apple computers from Apple Newsstand.
> 
> Come back later to find out more about Codex: Khorne Daemonkin and about another, even bigger release…


----------



## Charandris

Before I saw it mentioned that Friday will bring something very exciting for all hobbyists, so meaning something other than the daemon kin stuf because that's for 40k players. And then the above article states there's an even bigger new release? Is it the cases they're on about or something else?


----------



## venomlust

The bigger release is the Adeptus Mechanicus. The hobby part is probably the new army cases.


----------



## Zion

From El Descanso de Elescriba:







​ ​ ​ ​ 
​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​


----------



## venomlust

I ordered my cards but I can't find the link to the special edition! ARG!


----------



## GuiltySparc

has the new codex come out yet?? i don't see it on GW's website.


----------



## venomlust

UK:

Codex:http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Khorne-Daemonkin-ENG
Cards: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Datacards-Khorne-ENG

US:

Codex: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Codex-Khorne-Daemonkin-ENG
Cards: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Datacards-Khorne-ENG

GO GO GO!


SKULLTAKER EDITION:

UK: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Khorne-Daemonkin-Skulltaker-Ed-NAS
US: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Codex-Khorne-Daemonkin-Skulltaker-Ed-NAS

WOOT! Ordered mine!


----------



## GuiltySparc

i also want the special addition, going to hold out! lol


----------



## GuiltySparc

here it is

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Codex-Khorne-Daemonkin-Skulltaker-Ed-NAS


----------



## GuiltySparc

although the cover is not as cool unless they just aren't showing the codex book in the pictures


----------



## venomlust

The cover isn't as cool, haha! Dang! Also, no art book but that really wasn't disputed after the WD.

Can always resell it or whatnot. :laugh:


----------



## GuiltySparc

also ships 2 weeks later...think i'ma go with the regular version and put the extra money into demons since i don't have any demon models. Advice on which to grab first, guessing blood letters or bloodscrushers since they are in the warband box?


----------



## venomlust

I'd wait on buying anything else until we see the codex. For all we know, SOMETHING got new stats. Unlikely as it may be, dataslates for every unit (including Lord of Skulls) are in the book, so we might be surprised.


----------



## GuiltySparc

good point...i also found that codex + datacards + a pot of khorne red is $66, ie free shipping, lol. The khorne red isnt much different from the meph red i've been using but if i use it on the demons and stay with the meph on the marines then they will be ever so slightly different.


----------



## venomlust

Kharn is missing from the HQ section on the GW site for Khorne Daemonkin, and Berzerkers are missing from the Infantry section...

Both are still on the site, though, in the CSM section.

That's sorta strange.


----------



## GuiltySparc

no oblits either in heavy support. I can't image that they would actually get rid of Kharn though...dude is like the most awesome dude ever.


----------



## venomlust

Guy on the warseer forums who has the codex says: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?406739-Codex-Khorne-Daemonkin/page11

NO KARANAK AND _NO KHARN!_ WTF! Fucking WEAK!

And also,



> The main rule of the codex is "Blood for the blood good":
> 
> You get "blood points for every unit you destroy and for every unit you are destroyed. Carachters slained in challenges generate blood points as well.
> 
> At the beginning of your turn you can spend those blood points (effects lasts till the beginning of your next turn)
> 
> 1 Adamantium will
> 
> 2 Rage + Furious Charge
> 
> 3 Feel no pain
> 
> 4 +1A
> 
> 5 Summon 8 bloodletters of 5 Flesh hounds
> 
> 6 Summon 3 Bloodcrushers or one Skull cannon
> 
> 7 One carácter becomes a Demon Prince (LD test, if failed becomes a Spawn instead)
> 
> 8 One carácter becomes a Bloodthirster (Same as above)
> 
> Once you spend a blood points you loose them all. For example if you have 5 and spend 4 for Feel No Pain, the left point is lost.


- ONLY Daemonkin units count for Blood Tithe points when they are destroyed, not other detachments in your army .



> Artefacts are:
> 
> One Axe that you have to count the wounds infflicted with it:
> 1-2 +1S
> 3-4 Rampage
> 5-7 Sx2
> 8+ Instant Death
> Effects are acumulative
> 
> One armour that gives you 3+, Feel no Pain and Eternal warrior
> 
> One Rune that gives bearer adamantium will, and you can explode it. If so, till your next turn, in a 24" bubble, all pyshic test get perils with any doublé
> 
> One Sword that gives you a blood point for every wound
> 
> One helmet that gives you fear and any 6 to hit generates an additional attack
> 
> One Axe that when bearer diez becomes a Bloodthirster but and the end your turn loses D3 wounds (Only inv saves allowed)
> 
> Axes are AP2 and Unwieldy +1S, the Sword is AP3





> There is Detachment similar to the Decurion: The Blood host
> 
> Mandatory: Slaughter cult (1 HQ, 2-8 Bezerkers, Bloodletters or Chaos Space Marines in any combination), 1-4 Possessed, 0-2 Spawn units, 0-2 Cultits
> 
> Benefits: Reroll Warlord trait and generates 1 Blood point every turn. When spending blood points you can for free get another bonus with less value than the first one.


Lord of Skulls did not go down in points:


----------



## GuiltySparc

how can you have a khorne book without kharn, lol. Guess i'll be fielding a 6th ed CSM army with the KD allies when i want to field Kharn...kind of weird.


----------



## GuiltySparc

there are no characters at all in the HQ section. guess we'll see when we all actually get a copy of the book...maybe they do expect people to use the CSM book and this as an allies book or something if you want to field characters.


----------



## venomlust

Must temper my reactions with caution until I see the book.


----------



## mayegelt

Having a look at what he has said on warseer it doesnt look great. The artefacts seem to be ok at best, but with no points values i cant really tell. But they have stuck with the new necron style list of telling people to have a perticular base, then some optional detachments with various bonuses. Most of which i dont think are great. But none of which has daemon engines like maulers in.


----------



## venomlust

Notice anything interesting?










Maybe THAT'S where our AP2 at initiative went.


----------



## Mossy Toes

Strolling through that Warseer thred, well, looks pretty easy to get 8 squads of 5 Flesh Hounds Scouting forward--force your opponent to kill them off for a bunch of Blood Points to bring you an early free summoned Bloodthrister... well, they do that or all the units in their gunline are tied up by your Flesh Hounds so the rest of the list closes freely. Those Biker squads, all those MSU CSM in Rhinos, a couple HQs, even... *sigh* the single squad of Bloodcrushers, the single squad of Possessed, and the 2 squads of Bloodletters you have to back those up.


----------



## Uveron

I am looking forward to this, codex.. 

Anything will be better than, what we currently have!


----------



## DaisyDuke

What's the axe of Khorne? New or in demons codex?


----------



## Fallen

please be the bloodfeeder demon weapon from the old codex.

I miss rolling the double sixes and yelling "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" terrifying any small children that may be around.

Edit: Don't play Khorne Demons, so no idea if its from there...it probably is.


----------



## Mossy Toes

DaisyDuke said:


> What's the axe of Khorne? New or in demons codex?


Daemons dex. Think a master-crafted, at-initiative AP2 melee weapon that causes Instant Death on to-wound rolls of 6.

Of course, in the Daemons dex, it costs 1/3 as many points as pictured there...



Fallen said:


> please be the bloodfeeder demon weapon from the old codex.
> 
> I miss rolling the double sixes and yelling "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" terrifying any small children that may be around.
> 
> Edit: Don't play Khorne Demons, so no idea if its from there...it probably is.


I could never urge myself up to take the Bloodfeeder, on account of the 1/3 chance you wouldn't get to frikkin' attack, honestly...


----------



## Vaz

Wouldn't be surprised if Kharn wasn't a Lord of War for CSM. He might be chosen of khorne but he has never struck me as 'Daemonkin' material.


----------



## DaisyDuke

Initiative ap2 could definitely give some units a combat edge for champions. Though 30 is steep, it could make terminaters viable.


----------



## venomlust

@Vaz Yeah I guess I can't think of any time Kharn has been described as fighting alongside daemons or trying to summon them or whatnot. Bah, such a potent fighter though.

Still waiting on details for the axe.


----------



## Nordicus

venomlust said:


> Yeah I guess I can't think of any time Kharn has been described as fighting alongside daemons or trying to summon them or whatnot. Bah, such a potent fighter though.


Me neither - But hey, you can always ally him in. It's no biggie to be honest.


----------



## venomlust

Or a juggerlord with an axe of blind fury, which blows these new weapons away. Ah well, there will be new tricks. Curious if the daemon princes will follow the daemon or csm format. Hopefully csm, as then they could take and use the artifacts... in theory.


----------



## venomlust

> Warlod traits
> 
> 1. Warlord and all units at 12" reroll distance to assault
> 
> 2. Warlord has Zealot
> 
> 3. Warlord gets +1A
> 
> 4. After killing and enemy carácter in a challenge, you get 2 Blood points instead of only 1.
> 
> 5. Warlord gets preferred enemy
> 
> 6. Warlord automatically passes the LD test if he is chosen for the 7. and 8. of the Blood points table. (Becoming a Daemon Prince or a BT)
> 
> 
> 
> Axe of Khorne can be taken only by Characters





> Spawns, possesed and helbrutes are all the same. Only thing is that they all have Mark of Khorne. Fiends are Daemons of Khorne.
> 
> There are no rewards for Daemons.


That last part is pretty disappointing.


----------



## GuiltySparc

To bring in an hq from another codex, what else would you need to bring, two troops from that codex also?


----------



## Nordicus

GuiltySparc said:


> To bring in an hq from another codex, what else would you need to bring, two troops from that codex also?


If you do it as an ally, you only need 1 troop. But you can only bring 1 of each slot (fast, elite and heavy) too.


----------



## venomlust

GuiltySparc said:


> To bring in an hq from another codex, what else would you need to bring, two troops from that codex also?


Maybe only 1 unit of cultists if they count as a separate faction, otherwise yes.


----------



## Vaz

1 is really good if it's an option rather than forced.
2 Fearless is good, but really, if you're losing an assault with Khorne Daemonkin... what? The rerolls can be useful however. But again, if you're relying on getting this warlord trait for Zealot, just ally in some CSM.
3 +1A. Sounds good. But not really. Only slightly more killy than they already are.
4 How useful are blood points? Provided you just slaughter enemy sergeants, it's okay.
5 Preferred Enemy; see Zealot, but to a lesser extent.
6. Ah. Depends on if you keep your kit. I'd assume not. Useful if it happens, but for the rare time you'd fail the Ld test (1 in 12 games) when that does happen (I'd assume rarely, maybe 1 in 6), and then the chance that you'd actually have rolled this trait...

Yeah.


----------



## mayegelt

Wouldn't it be funny if the person on Warseer is actually just making stuff up and seeing how many people he can con


----------



## venomlust

> BT can't take any equipment at all. Daemon Princes can take artefacts


Of course he can't, wouldn't want him to be able to use eternal warrior armor or anything :grin:. At least the DP can, but then can't also take any other artifacts. 



> Units in the codex are:
> 
> HQ: Chaos Lord, Daemon Prince, Herald, Blood Throne, Skulltaker, 3x BT
> Troops: Chaos cultists, CSM, Zerkers, Bloodletters
> Elite: Possessed, Chaos Termis, Bloodcrushers
> FA: Spawns, Rhino, Bikerts, Flesh hounds, Raptors, Talons, Heldrake
> HS: Land Raider, Fiends, Defiler, Soul Grinder, Helbrute, Skull cannon
> LoW: Lord of Skulls
> 
> Zerkers and CSM can take Rhinos


So much for chosen or havocs with meltas, jeez. Bikers and CSM only, I guess.


----------



## venomlust

mayegelt said:


> Wouldn't it be funny if the person on Warseer is actually just making stuff up and seeing how many people he can con


Haha, at this point I sorta hope he is!


----------



## venomlust

> Quote Originally Posted by Mike3791
> How is this codex different then using mono khorne CSM/CD allies?
> 
> The differences are The blood points mechanic and new Artefacts. By the way, I cannot see any rule preventing Daemons IC joining non-Daemon units. The BT are unique as well. The one with the two handed axe attacks with D Strength but at I 1.


----------



## Einherjar667

Is this book an actual codex that you can take separately from the daemons and chaos space marines codexes?


----------



## Nordicus

Einherjar667 said:


> Is this book an actual codex that you can take separately from the daemons and chaos space marines codexes?


It's a new codex and actually considered a new army by Games Workshop - So yes. It even has it's own category in the army section on their website.


----------



## GuiltySparc

hmm, so if kharn can only be brought in with an allied detachment, then he can't be the warlord and doesn't get the hatred (all the things) rule. 

its also weird that kharn would be on the cover of the special edition but not in the book.


----------



## GuiltySparc

Nordicus said:


> It's a new codex and actually considered a new army by Games Workshop - So yes. It even has it's own category in the army section on their website.


This is one reason why i am thinking there is more in the book than just CSM + CD + Blood Tithe.


----------



## Einherjar667

Now that is very interesting. Wonder if there will be one for each of the gods then.


----------



## Nordicus

Einherjar667 said:


> Wonder if there will be one for each of the gods then.


That's my hope - It would be fun to have one for each god, the CSM and the Daemon Codex. 6 Codexes to choose from, depending on what you want to do with your Chaos army.

All hail Chaos!


----------



## venomlust

FINALLY something really cool!



> All daemon units have Fearless, instead of Instability.





> Daemons may be taken normally (See one of my previous posts).
> 
> Summoned units don't dissapear unless destroyed





> Originally Posted by 0604854 So can you confirm that daemonic characters can join non daemonic unis (and vice versa) and whether they benefit from locus and other such rules.
> 
> Yes to both.


----------



## venomlust

Vaz said:


> 1 is really good if it's an option rather than forced.
> 2 Fearless is good, but really, if you're losing an assault with Khorne Daemonkin... what? The rerolls can be useful however. But again, if you're relying on getting this warlord trait for Zealot, just ally in some CSM.
> 3 +1A. Sounds good. But not really. Only slightly more killy than they already are.
> 4 How useful are blood points? Provided you just slaughter enemy sergeants, it's okay.
> 5 Preferred Enemy; see Zealot, but to a lesser extent.
> 6. Ah. Depends on if you keep your kit. I'd assume not. Useful if it happens, but for the rare time you'd fail the Ld test (1 in 12 games) when that does happen (I'd assume rarely, maybe 1 in 6), and then the chance that you'd actually have rolled this trait...
> 
> Yeah.


Yep. Will be rolling on BRB warlord traits as per usual.


----------



## Uveron

Well this makes me quite happy, I had been planning to build my 2nd company of my IW's as a Khornate Cult, and this will work well for them!


----------



## Helden

Would be nice to see some rules that allow you to get into CC more efficiently.. especially given how anti-close combat 7th edition is.

So far, nothing impressive.. but we'll have to wait for the actual codex to know for sure


----------



## otasolgryn

i must say i had hoped for something to deliver the foot sloggers also.

possessed, berserkers, bloodletters, etc.

something to make them viable.


----------



## mayegelt

otasolgryn said:


> i must say i had hoped for something to deliver the foot sloggers also.
> 
> possessed, berserkers, bloodletters, etc.
> 
> something to make them viable.


Well if one of the things said earlier is correct and Rhinos are FA then you could load up Bloodletters, Possessed and Berserkers in them. If the thing with its weak armour gets popped on turn 1 (though of course you hopefully have a small bit of cover or pop your smoke launchers for 5+cover) then you fall out where you were anyway and can act as normal on the next turn (though can't charge, though if you are worried about gap closing the likely chance is you had nothing to charge on turn 1 anyway). If not you can drive 6" forward then disembark 6" more as normal movement, then run if you want to get anything up to 18" of movement in that 1 turn. That means next turn the likely chance is with 6 +2d6 you are in combat.

The only prob I guess with that would be that Bloodletters have really weak toughness and armour saves, so would all take a S4 hit if it gets blown up by a 6 on the damage table then only have your daemonic save to get save you. That would mean roughly half the squad would die.
THOUGH how many S6 (or other things that can cause penetrating hits on the rhinos) are you going to have focusing on them rather than the BloodThirster who is also in their sights.

ALSO I am still unclear on this one and it has been argued in my gaming circle lots of times before... But can you choose to write down on your army list what unit is in what vehicle (AKA the guys with the red bases are in the rhino with the black X on the top, the guys with the orange bases are in the one with the black star of chaos, and the unit of chosen are in the blue star of chaos. Of course with open topped ones you could tell what is inside, but if it is sealed up, can your opponent force out of you what the contents is.

The argument against not declaring your stuff is inside of X is normally that you could change it. Though if you have an official list then that is hard to do unless your opponent is endlessly distracted and has to leave the room continually.
Or the other major one is that my army has high tech scanners or spies that surely would have been able to work out who is inside of what before this point in the battle. Especially if the things inside look nothing alike (Aka Kroot vs Tau).
We seem to have worked out that IF you choose to fire out of a firepoint it is normally clear what is inside shooting out, though even then that has caused issues such as "Well you know 4 boltguns shot out, and 1 of them I rolled with BS5, so that is as much as you know about what is inside" (then of course on the great reveal then it must be the lord and some guys with boltguns or whatever and that needed to be written on the list priory to this event, so you didn't just happen to have them there cos that was the best spot for them to be). This has also spread to Fortifications and stuff as well and having to work out if people can see inside.


----------



## Kreuger

mayegelt said:


> ALSO I am still unclear on this one...


I'm still reading up on the current rules, but my recollection of all previous editions is that your army list needs to be available and shared with your opponent on request and when you are deploying those vehicles you must declare if a unit is deployed in the transport. "Surprises" in these cases are often used as you say, to switch which units are in which tanks.


----------



## Zion

From Iuchiban on Warseer (with consolidating of some things by me) :
First proof the person who posted all this has the codex:













> The main rule of the codex is "Blood for the blood good":
> 
> You get "blood points for every unit you destroy and for every unit you are destroyed. Carachters slained in challenges generate blood points as well.
> 
> At the beginning of your turn you can spend those blood points (effects lasts till the beginning of your next turn)
> 
> 1 Adamantium will
> 
> 2 Rage + Furious Charge
> 
> 3 Feel no pain
> 
> 4 +1A
> 
> 5 Summon 8 bloodletters of 5 Flesh hounds
> 
> 6 Summon 3 Bloodcrushers or one Skull cannon
> 
> 7 One carácter becomes a Demon Prince (LD test, if failed becomes a Spawn instead)
> 
> 8 One carácter becomes a Bloodthirster (Same as above)
> 
> Once you spend a blood points you loose them all. For example if you have 5 and spend 4 for Feel No Pain, the left point is lost.
> 
> Addendum: Summoned units don't dissapear unless destroyed





> Karn is NOT in the codex but Bezerkers are.





> Artefacts are:
> 
> One Axe that you have to count the wounds infflicted with it:
> 1-2 +1S
> 3-4 Rampage
> 5-7 Sx2
> 8+ Instant Death
> Effects are acumulative
> 
> One armour that gives you 3+, Feel no Pain and Eternal warrior
> 
> One Rune that gives bearer adamantium will, and you can explode it. If so, till your next turn, in a 24" bubble, all pyshic test get perils with any doublé
> 
> One Sword that gives you a blood point for every wound
> 
> One helmet that gives you fear and any 6 to hit generates an additional attack
> 
> One Axe that when bearer dies becomes a Bloodthirster but and the end your turn loses D3 wounds (Only inv saves allowed)
> 
> Addendums:
> Axes are AP2 and Unwieldy +1S, the Sword is AP3
> 
> Bloodthirsters can not take these options.
> 
> Limit one Artefact per model.
> 
> Daemon Princes can take Artefacts.





> Is it only units in the Khorne Daemonkin detachment that generate points when they die, or is it any unit in the controlling player's army?
> 
> 
> 
> Only the Demonkin units
Click to expand...




> Juggernauts for Zerkers?
> 
> Seriuosly? They can't.





> There is Detachment similar to the Decurion: The Blood host
> 
> Mandatory: Slaughter cult (1 HQ, 2-8 Bezerkers, Bloodletters or Chaos Space Marines in any combination), 1-4 Possessed, 0-2 Spawn units, 0-2 Cultits
> 
> Benefits: Reroll Warlord trait and generates 1 Blood point every turn. When spending blood points you can for free get another bonus with less value than the first one.
> 
> Then optional:
> 
> Lord of Slaughter: 1 BT
> 
> Brazen Onslaught: 1-4 units of Termis, 2-4 units of Bloodcrushers (+1A in CaC if opponent has more models in that combat)
> 
> Khorne Bloodstorm: 2-4 units of Raptors, 1-4 units of Warp Talons, 0-1 Helldrake (+1S of HoW attacks)
> 
> Gorepack: 2-4 Chaos Bikers, 1-4 Fleshhounds (Fleshhouds get HoW, and Bikers reroll to wound their HoW attacks
> 
> Charnel Cohort: 1 HQ (not a BT), 2-8 Bloodletters, 1-4 Fleshhounds, 1-4 Bloodcrushers, 0-4 Skull Cannon (Fear tests with -2LD, if HQ is in reserves may reroll to enter the battle. Other units do not scatter if enter reserves at 6" of the HQ





> Warlod traits
> 
> 1. Warlord and all units at 12" reroll distance to assault
> 
> 2. Warlord has Zealot
> 
> 3. Warlord gets +1A
> 
> 4. After killing and enemy carácter in a challenge, you get 2 Blood points instead of only 1.
> 
> 5. Warlord gets preferred enemy
> 
> 6. Warlord automatically passes the LD test if he is chosen for the 7. and 8. of the Blood points table. (Becoming a Daemon Prince or a BT)


RE: Rules changes


> Lords of Skulls same
> 
> Bloodcrushers same
> 
> No modified FOC
> 
> Bezerker Champion and Aspiring champions have Access to the Axe of Khorne.
> 
> Spawns, possesed and helbrutes are all the same. Only thing is that they all have Mark of Khorne. Fiends are Daemons of Khorne.
> 
> There are no rewards for Daemons.
> 
> Termis in the codex do have the Mark of Khorne. That's all. The rest of the unit entry is the same.
> 
> [Daemons] have access to the loci.
> 
> [The Mark of Khorne is] in the point cost, but is not for free. For example a CSM is 15 points


RE: What's in the codex:


> Units in the codex are:
> 
> HQ: Chaos Lord, Daemon Prince, Herald, Blood Throne, Skulltaker, 3x BT
> Troops: Chaos cultists, CSM, Zerkers, Bloodletters
> Elite: Possessed, Chaos Termis, Bloodcrushers
> FA: Spawns, Rhino, Bikerts, Flesh hounds, Raptors, Talons, Heldrake
> HS: Land Raider, Fiends, Defiler, Soul Grinder, Helbrute, Skull cannon
> LoW: Lord of Skulls
> 
> Zerkers and CSM can take Rhinos


RE: What's different about this versus running a MoK CSM Army allied with Daemons:


> The differences are The blood points mechanic and new Artefacts. By the way, I cannot see any rule preventing Daemons IC joining non-Daemon units. The BT are unique as well. The one with the two handed axe attacks with D Strength but at I 1.
> 
> Addendum: All daemon units have Fearless, instead of Instability.





> So can you confirm that daemonic characters can join non daemonic unis (and vice versa) and whether they benefit from locus and other such rules.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes to both.
Click to expand...

RE: Heralds in HQ slots:


> Only one per HQ option


----------



## GuiltySparc

That woundy axe sounds pretty cool and after my juggerlord got thunderhammer'd in the face last night i'm liking the eternal warrior armor.

I am a bit disappointed that there are no special characters...is that common? I thought every army had some named dudes.

edit: or does this point the idea that GW wants us to use the general CSM codex in combination with the daemonkin books?


----------



## The Sturk

This is more akin to the Crimson Slaughter and other supplement books, where they likely won't have the rules and point costs for models and expect you to use the books they came from. So for this, we would be using the rules from the Chaos Space Marines codex and the Chaos Daemons codex.


----------



## GuiltySparc

I don't think so, at 120 pages its not only bigger than the black legion/crimson slaughter supplements, its bigger than the CSM codex. Although since its a combo CSM/CD book that would make the pages more in line with a supplement.

I'm just speculating wildly on a sunday morning when i've had too much coffee, lol.


----------



## venomlust

I missed the part about Rhinos in the fast attack @mayegelt, that's pretty sweet!


----------



## venomlust

Zion said:


> .


All posted already in this thread :crazy:.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

That eternal warrior armour is like a must have item every time.


----------



## GuiltySparc

Words_of_Truth said:


> That eternal warrior armour is like a must have item every time.


word...i lost my juggerlord last night in the first round of combat to a thunder hammer...did not realize the dude wielding it was strength 5 until it was too late. :laugh:


----------



## Zion

The Sturk said:


> This is more akin to the Crimson Slaughter and other supplement books, where they likely won't have the rules and point costs for models and expect you to use the books they came from. So for this, we would be using the rules from the Chaos Space Marines codex and the Chaos Daemons codex.


Nope. This has rules for units in it unlike the Crimson Slaughter.

That said if someone REALLY wants Kharn in the army they could ally him in. He wouldn't do any of the book's things but it's an option.


----------



## venomlust

Lololololol someone just paid 255 bucks for a Skulltaker edition on ebay when it isn't even sold out yet:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271812689296?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

As if the thing wasn't expensive enough!


----------



## Zion

venomlust said:


> All posted already in this thread :crazy:.


Sorry, I hadn't been following this thread _that_ closely in the last few days.



venomlust said:


> Lololololol someone just paid 255 bucks for a Skulltaker edition on ebay when it isn't even sold out yet:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271812689296?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> 
> As if the thing wasn't expensive enough!


Maybe they're an Aussie or a Kiwi and it's cheaper that way?


----------



## venomlust

Ah, didn't consider that.

*edit*

It would also appear to be sold out in certain parts of the world. Checked the NZ version of the website and it's sold out there. Also Australia. Interesting.


----------



## mayegelt

Very interesting that they have only a limited number to send out to the colonies 

As said 


> Units in the codex are:
> 
> HQ: Chaos Lord, Daemon Prince, Herald, Blood Throne, Skulltaker, 3x BT
> Troops: Chaos cultists, CSM, Zerkers, Bloodletters
> Elite: Possessed, Chaos Termis, Bloodcrushers
> FA: Spawns, Rhino, Bikerts, Flesh hounds, Raptors, Talons, Heldrake
> HS: Land Raider, Fiends, Defiler, Soul Grinder, Helbrute, Skull cannon
> LoW: Lord of Skulls
> 
> Zerkers and CSM can take Rhinos


 Though also note that remembering the weird formation thing, you cant just buy rhinos for in there. Though you could have a CAD purely for the purpose of 3 FA slots for buying rhinos.

Though my review of the detachment is dodgy for a Bloodhost (said to be like the Decurion)



> Mandatory: Slaughter cult (1 HQ, 2-8 Bezerkers, Bloodletters or Chaos Space Marines in any combination), 1-4 Possessed, 0-2 Spawn units, 0-2 Cultits
> 
> Benefits: Reroll Warlord trait and generates 1 Blood point every turn. When spending blood points you can for free get another bonus with less value than the first one.


 This seems good in it self, the only penalty you get is having to buy some possessed, but the additional free Blood Point and being able to potentially convert a champ in to a Blood Thirster & Daemon Prince on the same turn is HUGE. Especially if the sword that generates a blood point for every wound is every wound inflicted by you, rather than taken by you. Because how hard would it be to get a Khorne Lord to run in with 3 attacks +2 for charge, +1 for 2 weapons, +1 for juggernaut (so 7 attacks), then HoW attack from the Juggernaut, +2 weak attacks if he can have a combat familiar. You could on average against a MEQ squad (if it is AP2-3 and S as user) kill 4-6 guys, then if you were in a challenge you will gain an additional point for killing the sergeant or whatever.
So in that situation you have generated 6 yourself by killing 5 and gaining a bonus 1, then you generate 1 for free each turn, so you have 7 points just from the lord!
The only disappointment for me is that it is 0-2 cultists, I would have liked to see 0-4.
Also just editing this one in, what if you had more than one Bloodhost / Slaughter Cult... would you generate 1 additional free blood point per host/cult... it is 370 at lowest pts for the HQ (Herald) 2 CSM of Khorne, 1 Possessed of Khorne. Then I assume if the same as Decurion you need to buy an optional as well what would probably be either a Lord of Slaughter at 250pts or Gorepack at 232pts as base of 602 if you take minimums if designed the same way as Decurion are.



> Lord of Slaughter: 1 BloodThirster


 Just getting an extra one... woo! THOUGH if this formation thing is like the Necron one, it doesn't seem to say you are limited to only having 1 of each of the formations, just 1-8 optional ones I think is listed in the Necron book. So could take multiple of this if you wanted more BTs



> Brazen Onslaught: 1-4 units of Termis, 2-4 units of Bloodcrushers (+1A in CaC if opponent has more models in that combat)


 I assume CaC is meant to be in Close Combat. That one could be nice, though personally still not a fan on Terminators and Bloodcrushers tend to be a bit of a big target due to T4 and W3 each and a teribad save.
Though that being said, if you have a load of Bloodcrushers, what is the chance he can take them all out before they get there.



> Khorne Bloodstorm: 2-4 units of Raptors, 1-4 units of Warp Talons, 0-1 Helldrake (+1S of HoW attacks)


 I doubt unless they address the points value for Warp Talons being way way way to high that anyone will want to take this pack. Shame it is the only way to get a drake without having to also have an AD or CAD in addition to your force. Also Raptors tend to not see much light in games I have seen.



> Gorepack: 2-4 Chaos Bikers, 1-4 Fleshhounds (Fleshhouds get HoW, and Bikers reroll to wound their HoW attacks


 This is the BIG DOG of the formations. This is where if like I said above you can choose multiple of the same pack that my points will be burnt in. 2-4 units of bikers... yes plz... 1-4 units of Flesh Hounds... yes yes yes oh god yes plz!.
In most of my CSM armies Bikers or Spawn take up every FA slot I have, though granted they are marked with Nurgle as well. But add in Fleshhounds what ALWAYS take up all 3 FA choices in every daemon CAD I do, and yeah... Hounds that can rip apart tanks and get in to combat so fast that it stops your opponents firing lines... pure pure awesome sauce! The bikers are the side note on this, but it does give you a fast army that on T2 should be almost entirely engaged in Melee.



> Charnel Cohort: 1 HQ (not a BT), 2-8 Bloodletters, 1-4 Fleshhounds, 1-4 Bloodcrushers, 0-4 Skull Cannon (Fear tests with -2LD, if HQ is in reserves may reroll to enter the battle. Other units do not scatter if enter reserves at 6" of the HQ


 This is the one I am completely unsure on. HQ is good, Bloodletters would be more needed on the base units you had (though could have CSM or Bezzys as the Core ones), 1-4 Flesh Hounds is great, 1-4 Bloodcrushers isn't. 0-4 Skull Cannons is ok as it has a 0, but I don't think anyone will be fielding them unless they are assaulting a fort or know that the board is terrain heavy.
But in either case the special rule is just not great, and doesn't offer enough to really make you think that you would take it over just adding in a CAD with the 1HQ and 2 Troop choices you have to make. Then you aren't being taxed for the Bloodcrushers.


What also strikes me as odd is the list that seems to say the benefit of the Slaughter Cult but not the Blood Host or vice versa...
In the case of the Decurion the whole army attached to that Detachment of formations gets a bonus to its reanimations, while the Reclamation Legion (the core thing) get 2 USRs & 1 Unique rule for those in that are in that individual part of the formation, in addition to the Decurion bonus. Of course other formation in there get the Decurion bonus and some individual USRs and Unique rules for those formations as well.
So I would assume that the listed bonus for the Slaughter Cult is either a merged version of both the rules for the Cult and Host. Otherwise there is no real point in either, as you could happily take detachments as you entire army anyway (like I did with the 1 Murderpack, 3 Mayhem Packs Helcult army).


----------



## Nordicus

What I'm more interested in, is how FW models would interact with this codex - Currently on all models in IA13, it says either "Chaos Space Marines" or "Chaos Daemons" in who are allowed to take it.

What about this codex? Does it follow one or the other, or are those FW models (Sicaran for example) simply not allowed with this one?


----------



## mayegelt

I would assume it counts as both CSM (Khorne) and Daemon (Khorne) for the purpose of FW stuffs. Though remember that most FW stuff isn't "Formations" so would have to have a CAD / AD to include them.


----------



## Vaz

Pretty much. Until FW bring their thumb out of their arse and actually learn how to play 7th edition, FW kits cannot be used with these supplemental codexes which explicitly list which units go with them, by RAW.


----------



## Kreuger

Vaz said:


> Pretty much. Until FW bring their thumb out of their arse and actually learn how to play 7th edition, FW kits cannot be used with these supplemental codexes which explicitly list which units go with them, by RAW.


Which is a bummer. I'd love to see the sweet, sweet FW daemon engines stalking around these armies.
Decimator . . . Blood Slaughterer . . . Blood Slaughterer-Impaler . . . Greater Brass Scorpion . . .

And I personally have some of the old Armorcast daemon engines, a Cauldron of Blood and 2 Cannons of Khorne. 

I am so psyched. This codex is _almost_ the Khornate list I've been wanting to run for 5 editions.

I have 4 generations of Bloodletters just waiting to get their little talons on the mortals.


Collected Bloodletters_2012-06-29 by warped forge, on Flickr


----------



## mayegelt

I guess the FW stuff will all be down to what it claims the codex "counts as" for the allies matrix.
If it says they are CSM then they would count as CSM for FW stuff. Same with Daemons and Daemon stuff.
Though if they have a unique one then it will not count as any (unless it states otherwise). Though I wouldn't begrudge anyone from taking Khorne or unaligned FW stuff that is Chaos as whatever slot it normally fits in. Though something like a Silver Tower or Tzeentch what is usable by CSM or Daemons I would not, as it is Tzeentch.


----------



## Vaz

You can play Unbound and still use Formations however. Those 3rd ed 40k/6th ed fantasy bloodletters tho...


----------



## mayegelt

The ones on the Hexagonal bases were the ones I was freaked out by


----------



## Kreuger

Vaz said:


> You can play Unbound and still use Formations however. Those 3rd ed 40k/6th ed fantasy bloodletters tho...





mayegelt said:


> The ones on the Hexagonal bases were the ones I was freaked out by


Whaaaaat? Not a fan, huh? 
I think the dopiness of any particular version is mitigated by having the whole family on the board.


----------



## Vaz

Oh hell no, I love them. While I'm not sold on the hex bases, the models are beautiful. I absolutely adore them, had a dream of collecting an entire metal army of them a small while ago, but only managed to get 18. And considering how crap they were in game, they just weren't worth it, IMHO.


----------



## Kreuger

Ahhh, gotcha @Vaz. I just had the hex bases around when I got the models on eBay. They were slathered with paint and didn't come with bases, so it was a matter of convenience. Obviously, I haven't played lately, nor with any seriously competitive crowds.


----------



## venomlust

I think the guy with the codex noped the fuck out after all the bombardment of questions and the inevitable arguing back and forth about how badly the codex blows. Was asked a few times about the faction details but never got around to answering. Sent him a PM, maybe he'll get back to me. Either way, we should know soon! You'd think other people would be leaking stuff by now.


----------



## frenchi861

Hi everyone,

I decided to write my opinion on all this rumours and I have to desagree with some of you but I am a little skeptical about all that has been said and here is why:

1) I don't mean that the guy is a liar but, we only have rumour for one guy and the only proof he gave was a picture of the cover. I have been, saturday, to two different GW and none of them received the book yet! But the guy yes. I might be wrong but I learn to not beleive everything people tell me.

2) In the case of the guy not being troll, he started answering question about rule after what? an hour with the book? That means the guy maybe made mistake wit some rule. We have a section of the forum just for rule because people misread or doesn't interprete them the same way. 

3) Formation: GW is creating formation to make us play with things we will not normaly play with. In the case of the formation given, We have 5/6 of them but half of the codex is not represented! Which mean, or you play formation with limited choice or play CAD. Which make the point of the formation useless (my opinion). Will I keep my Maulerfiend home to be able to summon daemon? I don't know. And that intrigue me, maybe he forgot to metion a few other "formation" like the BT one, that don't give any special rule. 

My point is, we have one source with no real proof of what ha says is true. (just the cover picture) and with only his interpretation of the rule. (if what he says is true). Now, mayeb I am also hoping for him to be wrong, I like the rules he mentioned, and I liek the formation but not behing able to play my Fiends or Spawn is a dealbreaker for me! 
Some of the artefacts sounds fun but we should wait to see the points. And the Axe of Khorne! It's expensive at 30 points but maybe it's a bug or maybe the rule are different from the Axe in DC codex. 

Here are my thoughts of all this rumours, I will still buy it, bad or good, and I will still play CSM mostly khorne. I just continue to hope until I see some scan or other of the rules.


----------



## Zion

Rumors are just rumors until the book is released. I wouldn't take anything any rumor says personally, and if the guy is a fake we'll know soon enough and he'll suffer for it rep wise.


----------



## venomlust

*Sharpens the points of his pitchfork*


----------



## mayegelt

frenchi861 said:


> 3) Formation: GW is creating formation to make us play with things we will not normaly play with. In the case of the formation given, We have 5/6 of them but half of the codex is not represented! Which mean, or you play formation with limited choice or play CAD. Which make the point of the formation useless (my opinion). Will I keep my Maulerfiend home to be able to summon daemon? I don't know. And that intrigue me, maybe he forgot to metion a few other "formation" like the BT one, that don't give any special rule.


The BT formation is the same as you get for Necrons. They have "Star-God" as a formation. That can be Deceiver, Nightbringer, Transcendent or Tesseract. None of them are actually a formation, but are just a unit that can be bought that has no additional special rules for being part of the Decurion, outside of they would also get the bonus for Ever-Living (the Decurion Bonus). The same goes for the Deathmarks and Flayed Ones entry for a Decurion. It is just 1 unit with no additional special rules other than receiving the bonus of "Ever-Living" for being part of a Decurion.
I would assume that the Bloodhost has a similar thing. This will likely be an auxiliary for Helbrutes, Maulers, Forgefiends, Heldrake. Defilers, Soulgrinders that could have a 1-3 Daemon Engines this likely would have to also have the accessibility for adding in the Warpsmith in to the list. Obliterators and Mutilators could be paired up. Havoks and Chosen could be another one of the optional extras. Not to mention Vindicators and Predators that also don't appear. Each of these might be in a slot on the Decurion style formation, just having not been mentioned due to no special rules being allocated to them outside of the "Bloodhost" formation rule if any.


----------



## frenchi861

I agree totally, and I hope this is true. Now, the rumours indicate that Oblit, Havocs, Mutilators are not part of the codex (Maybe predator too, don't remember). But he mention the BT as a formation without rule. That's why I think we should wait and see the all thing and not just start complaining about half of the book without knowing the other half.


----------



## mayegelt

If you read the posts though from the guy he seems to be Spanish I believe, and I think a lot of people have called the things you attach to your reclamation legion (what is a formation) as formations. In the majority of the cases that is true, the Royal Court, Judicator Battalion, Destroyer Cult, Canoptek Harvest, Annihilation Nexus, Living Tomb, Deathbringer Flight all are Formations listed in the codex. However the Flayed ones, Deathmarks are not, and the collective group of that is listed as Star-God also are not a formation.
In actuality all these things in the form of the Decurion are called Core (Reclamation), Command (Royal Court) or Auxiliary (everything else listed above). Each of these things in the Detachment is treated in the same way as your traditional HQ, Elite, Troops, Fast Attack, Heavy Support, Fortification and Lord of War. The only compulsory choices in the case of Decurion is 1+ Reclamation Legion, Then you must take a minimum of 1 and max of 10 Auxiliary choice & the option of 0-1 Royal court per Reclamation Legion (both Auxiliary and Royal Court).

Personally this reminds me massively of the old Tyranids in Space Marine (before it was rebanded again to Epic 40k). They basically had their starter hex card of a Dominatrix, That had an arrow pointing out of every direction of the hex. You then could attach any hex card to her. All other cards had an input arrow pointing in from 1 direction and some of these cards like the harridan had a single arrow pointing out, while Hive Tyrants had 3 exit arrows. Most cards however had no exit arrows so ended the chain.
In essence it was a great new way to have an army design and if you lost your link the start card you ended up reverting back to instinct rules rather than having full control over your stuff. What basically meant that melee things tended to run the shortest route they could to the nearest enemy, firing ones shot the closest thing they could fire at.

In either case I think I prefer the new Decurion style of army lists than the current 1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 0-3 Elite, 0-3 Fast Attack, 0-3 Heavy Support, 0-1 Lord of War, 0-1 Fortification.
If you actually look at the Decurion as a whole you have 1HQ, 0-2 Elite, 3-12 troops, 1-3 Fast Attack & 0-3 Heavy Support to start you off for the Reclamation Legion, though the options of what you can take is strictly limited. On top of this you take an Auxiliary what could be as simple as 1 Elite to 1HQ, 3Fast Attacks and 1 Heavy Support.
Most of these 'Formations' or Auxiliaries seem to have some form of special thing that is themed with the army and some even have potential drawbacks of having to take something that normally under min-max / WAAC circumstances you would not even consider.
The other thing to add to that is that they have access to Lord of Skulls. But that was not mentioned in the formation section that was listed by that poster.
The odd thing I said before about this is that these special detachments can't have Fortifications by the looks of it.


----------



## GuiltySparc

BoLS has an 'inside the book' post up from black library. Not much, but the pictures are pretty sweet.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/03/codex-daemonkin-a-look-inside.html


----------



## Vaz

frenchi861 said:


> But he mention the BT as a formation without rule. That's why I think we should wait and see the all thing and not just start complaining about half of the book without knowing the other half.


This is already a thing from Codex Necrons. Why should this be any different? Why does it NEED to have special rules? On top of what it already has?
@mayegelt, are you sure that those 'formations' listed in the Necron dex aren't called formations? Pretty sure they are called formations but I'm AFB


----------



## Zion

The formations in the Cron book are called Formations. It's only the Decurion that is called a Detachment.


----------



## mayegelt

Vaz said:


> @mayegelt, are you sure that those 'formations' listed in the Necron dex aren't called formations? Pretty sure they are called formations but I'm AFB


 The ones that are formations are still formations (basically all except the flayers, deathmarks, c'tan), but in the case of the Decurion Detachment they are just Auxiliary choices for the purpose of army selection.
Basically was just trying to say that person who said all the Formations, may not have included the additional ones that don't count as "Formations" though was a bit strange that he included the BT one.


----------



## venomlust

Skulltaker Edition sold out in the UK now, too. Er, Great Britain at least.


----------



## mayegelt

Paying an additional £62 for a few extra skulls, coins and a magnetic seal box wasn't something I was gunna do. Though have gone for the normal edition and the tactical cards.
Though when / if Tzeentch and Nurgle come out I might as depending on the day depends on which is my favourite. Though going from what I had seen about the Khorne book, it looks like it is just about 10 pages of extra rules and no new statlines or anything (apart from the 2 new BloodThirsters what were in WD.


----------



## venomlust

I'm kicking around the idea of reselling mine and picking up the normal book. The cover on the regular edition is just better, hands down. Bought the datacards to either resell or use in case I sell the LE.


----------



## GuiltySparc

ya, i went with the datacards and the regular version. I figured spending the extra money on demons was a better use of it.


----------



## venomlust

Appears to be fully sold out everywhere now.


----------



## mayegelt

And yet I think the special limited edition of IA13 can still be bought 

Sooo tempted to get Siege of Vraks new version though for the R&H Plague edition.


----------



## venomlust

Hahah, and now it's back to NOT being sold out.

Wut da fuq?


----------



## Mossy Toes

venomlust said:


> Hahah, and now it's back to NOT being sold out.
> 
> Wut da fuq?


Probably cancelling bulk orders that were no doubt destined for ebay resellers at a higher price point, and the like.


----------



## venomlust

That would make sense. As Zion pointed out earlier, I guess for a few people across the planet it's cheaper this way than buying in their home country (or they simply didn't get allotted many books), so eBay could be worthwhile. Easy way to make a few bucks, selling 'em.


----------



## venomlust

Well, turns out the initial leaks were accurate:

Via GoonBandito at dakkadakka:



> I have the Khorne codex in hand, so feel free to ask any burning questions you might have .
> 
> From a quick glance so far, it appears all profiles and costs of units are the same as Chaos Demon and Chaos Space Marine codexes (with the mark of khorne/demon of khorne upgrades added into the cost if the unit didn't already come with it added in).
> 
> All units have the Blood for the Blood God rule - this is the Blood Tithe rule that has already been discussed. Note that any units that are summoned via the Blood Tithe table enter play via Deep Strike within 6 or 12" from a friendly unit with the Blood for the Blood God rule, just like how Psychic Summoning works. Yes this means turning your characters (only ones without the Demon of Khorne rule) into Flying Demon Princes or Bloodthirsters is still kinda sucky, since you'll have to wait two turns before you charge... If you turn your Warlord into a Demon Prince/Bloodthirster, it doesn't count as a casualty for Slay the Warlord and you keep your Warlord Traits. Also note that a unit has to have the Blood for the Blood God rule to generate Blood Tithe, so no funneling allied Grots down the grinder lol.
> 
> Demons do not have the Demonic Instability rule - they instead have Fearless (meaning you can now join Demon and Chaos Marine Independent Characters together)
> 
> The Champion of Chaos rule is gone...
> 
> ... only to be replaced with the Skulls for the Skull Throne! rule which does the exact same thing (except you don't even get Chaos Boons anymore). As an added bonus, all Demon characters have it now too! Thanks GW!
> 
> Skulltaker is the only named character in the book.
> 
> There are no Demonic Rewards.
> 
> Loci are available to Heralds, exactly the same as Chaos Demon Codex
> 
> Chaos Rewards are called Gifts of Khorne, and are the same except that the Gift of Mutation is not available. A Collar of Khorne can be bought for 15pts instead (same as what Flesh Hounds come with)
> 
> An Axe of Khorne (same as in Codex Chaos Demons) can be bought as a Melee Weapon for 30pts. Heralds of Khorne got dicked on there (they can take it as a Lesser Reward for 10pts in Codex Chaos Demon), but Chaos Marine characters can now enjoy an AP2 weapon at initiative.
> 
> There is a 50pt Artefact that grants a 3+ Armour Save, Eternal Warrior and Feel No Pain available to Chaos Lords and Demon Princes.
> 
> Ally Matrix:
> Battle Brothers: Chaos Demons, Chaos Space Marines
> Convenience: Necrons, Orks
> Desperate: Dark Eldar, Tau
> Come the Apocalypse: Imperium, Eldar, Harlequins, Tyranids
> 
> 
> The Blood Host Detachment is a Necron Decurion style thing made up of 5 different Formations. The Blood Host detachment gives you 1 free Blood Tithe point at the start of each of your turns.
> 
> Core:
> * Slaughtercult: (1 Chaos Lord/Herald/Blood Throne/Skulltaker/Demon Prince/Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury, 2-8 Chaos Space Marines/Bezerkers/Bloodletters in any combination, 1-4 Possessed, 0-2 Spawn, 0-2 Cultists). If Cultists from this formation fail a Morale test, you can choose to remove the remaining models as casualties (thus earning a Blood Tithe point). When spending Blood Tithe points, you can choose a 2nd Reward of lesser value (but not more than 4pts worth) in addition for free.
> 
> Auxiliary (1-8 choices per Slaughtercult)
> * Brazen Onlsaught: (1-4 Terminators, 2-4 Bloodcrushers). Units in this formation that are outnumbered in assault gain +1 attack
> 
> * Khorne's Bloodstorm: (2-4 Raptors, 1-4 Warp Talons, 0-1 Heldrake). Hammer of Wrath and Vector Strikes are +1S.
> 
> * Gorepack: (2-4 Chaos Bikers, 1-4 Flesh Hounds). Move Through Cover, Preferred Enemy (Psykers), Flesh Hounds gain Hammer of Wrath, Chaos Bikers gain Shred on their Hammer of Wrath attacks.
> 
> * Charnel Cohort: (1 Demon Prince/Herald/Blood Throne/Skulltaker, 2-8 Bloodletters, 1-4 Flesh Hounds, 1-4 Bloodcrushers, 0-4 Skull Cannons). Counter Attack, HQ can re-roll reserve rolls if in Deep Strike Reserve, All other units do not scatter from Deep Strike Reserve if placed within 6" of HQ, Enemy Units have -2Ld against Fear checks from units in this formation.
> 
> * War Engine: (1 Helbrute, Defiler, Soul Grinder, Forgefiend, Maulerfiend or Lord of Skulls). No extra special rules
> 
> Command (0-1 per Slaughtercult)
> Lord of Slaughter - 1 Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury/Insensate Rage/Wrath of Khorne or 1 Lord of Skulls. No extra special rules. The Bloodthirsters incidentally are the same as the White Dwarf dataslates, with the addition of the Skulls for the Skull Throne! Rule, Fearless instead of Demonic Instability and no options to purchase any extra wargear.
> 
> Minimum size of Cultist, Chaos Marine, Bezerker and Bloodletter units is now 8. You can still add models up to their previous max sizes (35 for cultists, 20 for the other three). This means the minimum cost for Cultists, Chaos Marines and Bezerkers went up, while the minimum cost for Bloodletters came down by the appropriate points.
> 
> Quote1) No Chaos Boons, though you do earn Blood Tithe for killing characters in challenges.
> 2) You can take 1 Helbrute, Defiler, Soul Grinder, Forgefiend, Maulerfiend or Lord of Skulls as War Engine as part of your 1-8 Formation choices per Slaughtercult. So Yes, you can take them as part of the Blood Host.
> 
> 3) You keep relics if you become a Demon Prince (and ignore any restrictions of Demon Princes normally having that relic). Bloodthirsters lose them. Also, you can only summon a Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (the default one with an Axe of Khorne/Lash or Khorne) from Blood Tithe.
> QuoteYou earn points when a unit containing at least 1 model with the Blood for the Blood God rule either kills an enemy unit or is completely destroyed and/or when a model with the Blood for the Blood God rule either kills an enemy character in a challenge or is killed in a challenge. What I meant was that you can't earn Blood Tithe from allied units, unless they were allied Khorne Demonkin (ie no running cheap packs of Grots or whatever at the enemy to get slaughtered so you can summon Bloodthirsters).
> 
> QuoteThere's 3 relic weapons
> *+1S AP2 unwieldy axe that gets more powerful the more unsaved wounds it causes (1-2 wounds is +1S, 3-4 is Rampage, 5-7 is x2S, 8+ is Instant Death. All cumulative.)
> * S User, AP3 sword that generates an extra blood tithe point if you cause at least 1 casualty in an assault phase.
> 
> * A special Axe of Khorne that in addition turns the bearer into a Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury when he dies, but the Bloodthirster takes d3 wounds (can take Invuln saves) at the end of each turn.
> It seems any unit from Codex: Chaos Space Marines that had the Demon rule, now has the Demon of Khorne rule. Forgefiends, Maulerfiends and Defilers all went up by 5pts seemingly because of this. Heldrakes are now Demons of Khorne too, but remained the same price (probably because Furious Charge and Hatred: Demons of Slaanesh are useless on a Flyer). Helbrutes have neither the Mark or Demon of Khorne rule. Possessed now have both the Demon and Mark of Khorne rules, for a 4pt increase (they are 30pts/model).
> 
> QuoteBlood Tithe buffs affect all friendly units with the Blood for the Blood God rule (which is every unit in the codex).
> 
> Automatically Appended Next Post:
> Oh, something else I just noticed - the minimum size of Cultist, Chaos Marine, Bezerker and Bloodletter units is now 8. You can still add models up to their previous max sizes (35 for cultists, 20 for the other three). This means the minimum cost for Cultists, Chaos Marines and Bezerkers went up, while the minimum cost for Bloodletters came down by the appropriate points (remember to factor in Mark of Khorne costs for the Chaos Space Marine units).


----------



## mayegelt

So Princes, GDK and Heralds with no Lesser, Greater or Exalted Rewards...
THAT SUCKS!
A lot of those bonuses are great and really needed to just make the thing survivable. Equally means no Grimmoire of True Names and stuff.

Also means that the 3 from WD for Daemon codex are better as they can still take the 50pts of rewards.


----------



## Mossy Toes

mayegelt said:


> Also means that the 3 from WD for Daemon codex are better as they can still take the 50pts of rewards.


Even with still having Daemonic Instability, yup.


----------



## mayegelt

Cheep rewards like Corrosive Breath are ace as a S5 AP5 Armourbane Flame Template. But the normal go for 2 Greater rewards and hoping to get CC attacks having Armourbane/Fleshbane is nice, FNP4+ or even Hellfire Gaze for a 18" S8 AP1 Lance or +1W & IWND...
Never really found the exalted ones that great, but 2 Greater and 1 Lesser, or 1 Greater and 3 Lesser worked well.

Though yeah, scrapping Daemonic Instability is nice as it was a bit of a pain, but when a BT loses combat he tends to not lose by much.

TBH I think this looks like a lame duck as a codex in itself...
...
...
...
...
...
...HOWEVER!!!

As something you ally to or just use Formations from it could be a powerhouse 
Personally I think most of my CSM armies and my Daemon ones are going to take a Gorepack.
Gorepack: 2-4 units of Khorne Bikers and 1-4 units of Fleshhounds and they both Prefered Enemy Psykers (bonus!), the Bikes gain move through cover (Bonus!), Fleshhounds get Hammer of Wrath (BONUS!), Bikers Hammer of Wrath rerolls failed wounds (BA BA BA BA BA BONNNNNNUS!). There is nothing wrong with this formation, and as I continually struggle with getting enough fast attack, just take it as a formation for either army and it doesn't even phase you.
In fact it could even help you more as those units will be earning Blood points to tithe if you want. Sure you will only get them if one of the units die or kills another unit, or if you kill someone in a challenge with the bikers champ. But with 2-4 squads of bikers and probably 3-8 units of hounds you could just eat a few tanks and stuff and will have those 3pts for a FNP for the whole formation or multiple formations, 4 gives you the bonus attack for the whole formation or multiple formations, 5pts to summon a unit fast, or even go for the 7 for the Prince (having worked out the BT is shitty cos he is stuck in the air for a turn.)
So for 232 min cost for the 2 biker and 1 hound unit. You just keep adding more hounds for 80pts a unit and they will make your army have so much speed that you lock your opponent down before he has to many shooting turns. Any shots fired at them to stop them need to overcome the T4 and W2 with a 5+ daemon save or maybe a better cover save. AND they start with Scout, so are already half way towards the enemy. Then the rest of your army just walks up.

Though coming back to that, as the Blood Tithe comes at the start of the turn, he could change his flight mode I think right away, thus would be gliding rather than souring on that first turn, though could not charge that turn. But next he can.

The Bloodhost thing seems a rather cack reward of the free blood point, not a great bonus but a nice one.
Slaughtercult: is rubbish due to the only BT you can take is the shitty normal one and has no rewards  ALSO is being screwed over by needing to have Possessed of Khorne...
Brazen Onslaught: MEH to both Termys and Bloodcrushers...
Bloodstorm: Meh to both Raptors and especially MEHH to Warp Talons of Khorne.
Charnel Cohort: MEH!


----------



## venomlust

I think going unbound will make a lot of sense for this army.


----------



## mayegelt

Basically did a lot of editing in above post while venom was posting


----------



## frenchi861

Do you gain blood tithe point when killing a unit or just by killing a charactere in challenge?

Mark of Khorne (daemon of Khorne) on a Maulerfiend doesn't change anything right?


----------



## venomlust

> Possessed are 4pts/model more expensive than in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This takes into account the cost of the Mark of Khorne (3pts/model for Possessed) and the Demon of Khorne (apparently priced at 1pt/model for Possessed) rules. Minimum squad is 5 for 150pts.
> 
> A regular CAD is a regular CAD... same as the Base Rule Book. The only Detachment in the Demonkin book is the Blood Host (Decurion Style thing) and the 5 Formations that can either be included in the Blood Host or separately like any other formation.


For some reason I thought you could only take the 5 formations on TOP of the slaughtercult. They suddenly become much better.


----------



## venomlust

frenchi861 said:


> Do you gain blood tithe point when killing a unit or just by killing a charactere in challenge?


Both.



> Mark of Khorne (daemon of Khorne) on a Maulerfiend doesn't change anything right?


I don't believe it changes a thing.


----------



## Uveron

It sounds FUN. 

But not competitive. 

I will be organizing my 2nd Company of Iron Warriors into a Gorepack I think... with a Lord/Khan with some Chosen to represent there leadership.


----------



## venomlust

If the formations can be taken without the main detachment then I'm gonna love the hell out of the Gorepack. Will use my skullcrushers as bikers and it will be glorious!


----------



## Uveron

venomlust said:


> If the formations can be taken without the main detachment then I'm gonna love the hell out of the Gorepack. Will use my skullcrushers as bikers and it will be glorious!


Though If the Possessed have the Daemons of Khorne Special rules..You are looking at 

4 S6 attacks. Per Possessed before the Random Mutation.. I know they are allot of points, but if I could work out a good delivery system for them. They would have potential...


----------



## venomlust

Yeah the army does suffer from mostly low/mid strength attacks for the most part. S5 from Furious Charge at initiative is the best we'll get on most of our units (S6 on furious charging spawn), so hurting monstrous creatures (Cheeseknight) is going to be tough. I guess power mauls could be useful in that regard, but then it would be wounding on 6's anyway at AP4, might as well be wounding on 6's at AP2 with instant death. That would be so satisfying. Just have the doggies try to tank wounds. Oh wait, forgot the knight is initiative 5 for some reason along with strength 10, so potentially everything will die in one round of combat unless the Juggerlord has the eternal warrior armor. MMM the Daemon Prince with that sick axe is going to be a very fun beatstick. THAT will do some damage!

But then, that's only one unit out of an army. So much fast MSU spam is going to be really fun to play around with.


----------



## Mossy Toes

venomlust said:


> If the formations can be taken without the main detachment then I'm gonna love the hell out of the Gorepack. Will use my skullcrushers as bikers and it will be glorious!


Gorepack, great. I can field detachments of Gorepack formations for my entire army, with as many biker-meltas as I need and Flesh Hounds to my heart's content. All my points. Heh.

However--do bear in mind, without taking the Blood Host with the necessary Slaughter Cult, that's one fewer Blood Point per turn, plus no reroll to Warlord or free extra purchase that costs less than the Blood Point. No Blood Host formation bonus could be... quite minimizing of the Blood Point aspect of the game as a whole.


----------



## venomlust

Mossy Toes said:


> Gorepack, great. I can field detachments of Gorepack formations for my entire army, with as many biker-meltas as I need and Flesh Hounds to my heart's content. All my points. Heh.
> 
> However--do bear in mind, without taking the Blood Host with the necessary Slaughter Cult, that's one fewer Blood Point per turn, plus no reroll to Warlord or free extra purchase that costs less than the Blood Point. No Blood Host formation bonus could be... quite minimizing of the Blood Point aspect of the game as a whole.


True, but then it appears you're limited to 1 HQ i.e. Juggerlord, which is super weak. Plus the stupid possessed tax (150 points). Warlord traits are largely useless (or at best unreliable), and the troops are probably not objective secured anyhow.

The loss of all that blood tithe stuff is definitely going to hurt, but is it going to hurt more than the additional units I can bring by not using the detachment? I guess it depends on the situation. That 150 points not spent on Possessed could bring more melta/plasma bikers, or almost a Heldrake. But then those blood buffs are going to go a long way to help out the rest of the army.

I suppose there's nothing stopping you from taking an unbound army with the Slaughtercult, additional HQs, and the other formations? Should still allow the reroll of warlord trait and the benefits to the Blood Host.


----------



## frenchi861

How do you plan on playing the Hounds? Do you think 3 minimum unit as diversion is a good idea? Can keep more important things alive and if he doesn't shoot at them, turn two he will feel it!


----------



## venomlust

frenchi861 said:


> How do you plan on playing the Hounds? Do you think 3 minimum unit as diversion is a good idea? Can keep more important things alive and if he doesn't shoot at them, turn two he will feel it!


A _good_ idea? I can't say :grin:. A COOL idea, hell yes!


----------



## otasolgryn

so... im think i got this but...

you can ally your self to the Gorepack only?
with out having to take the entire pack? or the troops/HQ tax?

and why does that work.

im really confused about this entire formation thing


----------



## mayegelt

BASICALLY Formations work as independent versions of a FoC. So you can take a formation in the same way as you would take a Combined Arms or Allied Detachment.
So you could either if you wanted build a whole army out of Formations if you wanted, or have a normal CAD and then have multiple formations attached to it.

My personal plan is to run a CAD of my own choice. So something like:

Crimson Slaughter (635pts)

HQ
Lord on Juggernaut, Mark of Khorne, Daemonheart, Sigil of Corruption, Powerfist, Lightning Claw (205pts)

TROOPS
20 Cultists 90pts
20 Cultists 90pts

HEAVY SUPPORT
MaulerFiend 125pts
MaulerFiend 125pts

GOREPACK 1 (432pts)
3 Bikers + 2X Melta (96pts)
3 Bikers + 2X Melta (96pts)
5 Fleshhounds (80pts)
5 Fleshhounds (80pts)
5 Fleshhounds (80pts)

GOREPACK 2 (432pts)
3 Bikers + 2X Melta (96pts)
3 Bikers + 2X Melta (96pts)
5 Fleshhounds (80pts)
5 Fleshhounds (80pts)
5 Fleshhounds (80pts)

I know that isn't a great army, though it is an example of 1499pts

Basically 1 on the Gorepacks will be joined by the Lord, though likely chance is I would probably slim something and have a 2nd Lord so I have a pair of them. The Gorepacks will generate Blood Points by either killing units (or tanks... or characters in challenges) or just dying. If not taken care of on T1 or T2 (if your opponent went first) that is anything up to 30 Fleshhounds and 12 bikers all in melee range. All of them generating Blood for you for a free Prince of Khorne or some other nasty.. or even just using the 3pts for a good old FNP or 4pts for +1A. In each case this applies to both the Gorepacks! Even the 2pt Blood reward for that army is great for the army as it gives all the Hounds RAGE! and all those Bikers get Furious Charge (4 X S5 Attacks per Doggy or Biker, with the asp in the bikers having 5X S5) though with that in mind I think adding a power weapon or claw to the asp champ in the bikers might be nice for just 15pts .

But yeah, if you wish to burn a few pts on some Possessed and have to take some Khorne CSM/Bezzys/Letters then getting the bonuses of the additional Blood Point, the additional FREE Tithe from the 1-4 set on casting one higher than it. But the big trade off is Objective Secured vs the bonuses listed before, and being restricted in your selection of the rest of the army. So if you want that Heldrake you have to take shitty Talons and Raptors. You have no option for Obliterators by the look of it. If you want Termys or Bloodcrushers you have to take the other one as well.
Also your whole army will likely be generating Blood. The reroll the warlord trait you are getting as normal from a CAD.
One thing you could easily do though is take your minimum style of Bloodhost and pay your possessed tax and slightly restrictive first 700pts or so for a "Good" force. Then just make a CAD 1HQ and 2 Troops (165pts) then pick the rest of your army as you normally would.

*BLOODHOST* (687/702pts)
SLAUGHTERCULT: (455/470pts)
Chaos Lord, Bike (or juggernaut at +15pts), Sigil of Corruption, Axe of Khorne, Mark of Khorne (150 / 165pts) (going in the bikers of course or maybe he could ride with the unit of hounds)
8 Bloodletters (80pts)
8 Bloodletters (80pts)
5 Possessed (145pts)

GOREPACK 1 (232pts)
3 Bikers + (76pts)
3 Bikers + (76pts)
5 Fleshhounds (80pts)

As a base that isn't a bad start to work with or add a CAD on for an extra Lord, couple of Cultist packs and all that and still keep those bonuses. Also if you make the CAD from Daemonkin book as well they will have the Blood bonuses and earn more Blood Points for you.

CAD (250/305pts)
BloodThirster of Choice (250-300)
10 Cultists X 2 (100/140) (though not getting the bonus for being able to kill themselves for Blood would be annoying... though you might be paying 20pts a unit for that if they have to be marked Khorne)
Then just add what you like such as Havocs, Oblits, Vindicators, Predators... Maybe 3 Fast Attack for some Rhinos to carry your Bloodletters and Possessed or maybe that Heldrake I said about before. Or throw in a Land Raider as transport for the Letters, or change them for CSM or Bezzys

As I said before, it will be interesting though to see if the Bloodhost rule can be cumulative, so if you had the minimum Slaughtercult and Gorepack at about 650pts I think. Take 3 of them for 2000pts (ish) and you get 3 blood points a turn.


----------



## GuiltySparc

anyone else get their shipping notification email? got mine last night, thought the fedex number isn't working yet.


----------



## mayegelt

My one is sitting at my LGS but I'm not allowed to collect it yet...


----------



## GuiltySparc

BoLS is saying that "Juggernauts are back as equipment."...could that possibly mean berzerkernauts??

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/03/10-shocking-spoilers-daemonkin-codex.html


----------



## Zion

Found on Reddit:


----------



## GuiltySparc

i love the names of everything, DELUGE OF GORE lol.


----------



## Mossy Toes

frenchi861 said:


> How do you plan on playing the Hounds? Do you think 3 minimum unit as diversion is a good idea? Can keep more important things alive and if he doesn't shoot at them, turn two he will feel it!


I was thinking of fielding 6 or 7 units of 5 every time I field a Kk army, honestly. Scout so they're in the face of the enemy right off the bat, Blood Points galore if my opponent shots them up, and lots of S5 Furious Charge to tie up their shooting units on T2 or the bottom of T1 if they _don't_ give me the extra bushel of Blood Points--a win-win, as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## GuiltySparc

that sounds like a lot of fun


----------



## venomlust

Yes, Flesh Hounds alone make this very very exciting. :laugh:


----------



## Mossy Toes

I expect to see more players fielding Inquisitors with 3 servo skulls just to keep the Flesh Hound wave from Scouting so fast, honestly...

But yes, it is exciting.


----------



## venomlust

Let the cowards! It just means the wave of gore will annihilate them simultaneously instead of piecemeal.


----------



## mayegelt

Scout is only a bonus if you go 2nd, so can sometimes get in combat on T1. Otherwise you are normally in combat on T2 anyway.


----------



## venomlust

An extra 12" of moment sounds like a pretty good bonus no matter what, but obviously better to go second. Good thing I ALWAYS end up going second because I roll like shit.


----------



## Mossy Toes

mayegelt said:


> Scout is only a bonus if you go 2nd, so can sometimes get in combat on T1. Otherwise you are normally in combat on T2 anyway.


Consider Seekers, as opposed to Hounds: Seekers are not going to be able to assault until T2, regardless of whether or not you or your opponent goes first. So assuming a couple reasonable propositions (no servo skulls, no enemy rapid redeploy during their T1 to be more than 24" from the Hounds, no deploying waaaay back in their own deployment zone on a Hammer & Anvil map), your Flesh Hounds are never going to face more than one round of enemy shooting: if you go first, they get shot point blank then you assault T2, and if you go second, they get shot at mid-range then scamper in to assault. Whereas Seekers... if you go first, only have to face one round of enemy shooting still, but if you go second, are exposed to 2 rounds of enemy shooting, guaranteed, before your assault. The benefit of Hounds is that almost no matter how you shake it, the opponent only gets one chance to put them down before they're on top of you.

And going second is honestly kind of a power position--at least in Eternal War missions, when it gives you the last chance to grab objectives uncontestably, or to contest enemy objectives, without a chance at enemy repartee. As Chaos, we're unlikely to get First Blood with our shooting anyways--might as well have the solid lead on objectives.

...Though that "close the gap before enemy shooting thins your ranks too much" on going first is so vital, so often. To say nothing of getting off Grimoire, Be'lakor's Invisibility and Shrouding, etc.


----------



## venomlust

Edited out pictures with unit costs. The book is out now, so we know what's up.


----------



## venomlust

Fucking BULLSHIT! Juggernaut of Khorne went up by 10 points!


----------



## Uveron

venomlust said:


> Fucking BULLSHIT! Juggernaut of Khorne went up by 10 points!


Do you have links to the picks, they are not loading on my computer


----------



## Uveron

Uveron said:


> Do you have links to the picks, they are not loading on my computer


Hmmm.. 

Do the Daemon Engines have the Mark of Khorne?


----------



## Zion

Uveron said:


> Do you have links to the picks, they are not loading on my computer


Have a rehost of everything on imgur:
http://imgur.com/a/QNmFN


----------



## Uveron

Zion said:


> Have a rehost of everything on imgur:
> http://imgur.com/a/QNmFN


AH. 

Work blocks Imgur. Ah well I will have a codex in a day or so..


----------



## Zion

Uveron said:


> AH.
> 
> Work blocks Imgur. Ah well I will have a codex in a day or so..


Or look at it when you go home?


----------



## Uveron

Zion said:


> Or look at it when you go home?


If I get time.. I work a 13 hour Door to Door day (well night at the moment). So normaly do not worry about logging on the Home PC.. (though the crazy shift pays of for the two weeks off I get, every month)


----------



## venomlust

Sorry, I only linked to the pics via the album someone else linked to. Don't have anything saved.

*Eye twitch* no dirge caster, either.

Wow, man...


----------



## Helden

This is not looking promising.. and there I thought GW was going to give Chaos some love for once. Instead we got a cut/paste of CSM and CD dex, with less options, higher point cost and some gimmick


----------



## otasolgryn

im SO going to need more bikes and dog now...

to ally into my deamons or CSM.

hmm the trade off is that the characters arent as good really.

either a juggerlord with axe of blind fury, or a herald with rewards.

hmmm

Edit: thinking here to ally me to deamons normally, but would here take the gore pack instead. but guess nothing prevents me from taking both? or if allying to deamons, of adding a herald from the deamon codex to a unit from the gore pack?


----------



## Zion

Helden said:


> This is not looking promising.. and there I thought GW was going to give Chaos some love for once. Instead we got a cut/paste of CSM and CD dex, with less options, higher point cost and some gimmick


And a stack of formations and their own Decurion.


----------



## venomlust

Haha, Skulltaker can't take a juggernaut any more, either.

Good thing they nerfed all that overpowered stuff we had in the other books.


----------



## frenchi861

I am kind of happy with that. Yes GW could have make it better but for me, I wanted to make a fluffy assault army. Normally, I was planning on doing Crimson Slaughter with khorne daemon, now I can do that better, bikes and dogs from the formations are good, and now my units bring me something if they die! My only probem is the possessed.


----------



## Helden

Zion said:


> And a stack of formations and their own Decurion.


Aside from the Gorepack maybe I don't see anything that would cut it in the competitive scene


----------



## Mossy Toes

Helden said:


> Aside from the Gorepack maybe I don't see anything that would cut it in the competitive scene


Yes, and--that Gorepack is enough of an addition to add to the successful Chaos player's repertoire. Practically unlimited decent Fast Attack choices!

If you take the "Possessed/CSM/HQ" tax of the Slaughter Cult to make, say, 2 Gorepacks Battle-Forged in a Blood Host, then those MSU choices generate you Bloodthirsters and the like just by dint of facing an opponent's shooting, which is nothing to sneeze at. MSU that actively benefits you by dying... ah...

I suppose it's a litmus test as to whether you like the direction GW is pushing the competitive scene: do you embrace that they've made Khornate MSU-spam a semi-viable option, or do you roll your eyes at it? Because I kind of like the idea of facing off against, say, Drop Podding OS-spam Marines with this list. Or running around 3 Knights scoring Maelstrom points and dual-melta pincering vs their Ion Shields with Adamantium Lance rerolls. Or the like.


----------



## Uveron

Helden said:


> Aside from the Gorepack maybe I don't see anything that would cut it in the competitive scene


At the moment I could agree, need to see the full codex but the 1 warmachine option, well that is intresting.. adds an extra HS slot to a CAD basically.


----------



## frenchi861

This is what I am planning on trying soon. Too bad I don't have enough point for a bloodthister.

SlaughterCult 881pts

Lord on Juggernaut, Axe of Khorne, Sigil 175pts
5 Possessed 150pts
10 CSM, 2 melta, Melta Bomb in Rhino with Havocs 232pts
8 Bloodletter 80pts
2x8 Cultist 116pts
4 Spawn 128pts

Gorepack 510pts

2x3 Bikers with Melta and Melta bomb 190pts
4x5 Hounds	320pts

Maulerfiend 130pts
Maulerfiend Lasher 140pts
Soulgrinder Bombar 165pts

Thats bring the list to 1826pts


----------



## Nordicus

Since when are dogs not on bike bases? :O


----------



## venomlust

Here's another hilarious catch: bloodcrushers can no longer take an icon. So now you're either gonna spend another 35 points and a fast attack slot for bloodletters in a rhino to let daemons of khorne deep strike without scattering, a land raider, or foot slog.

Why? Why was stupid shit like this necessary?

*edit*

Oh, silly me. I was totally wrong. Bloodletters can't take icons any more, either.

*edit 2*

Ah I see what they did. Now banner of blood is the only option, no plain icon.

Man I'm getting cranky, I'm gonna sleep.


----------



## The Sturk

Yeah...I was kinda excited for this...but seeing all of the negative changes is a huge turn off...

Honestly, you're better off using CSM with Daemon Allies or vice versa. The only draw to this is the formations, wargear and the blood table. But again, the removal of the interesting rules (Boons and Gifts), lack of certain characters (Kharn, Karnack, Skarbrand) and the mandatory price increases for models (and some wargear) really sucks...


----------



## DaisyDuke

From looking at this, they will be used as allys or for the formations. 
There are some good bits but much bad. 
The only reason I can see for not including the dirge caster (Damn you GW) is rhinos can be bought individually. 
But why not give terminaters access to the axe of khorne. ..are they to good already? 
And on what planet is an axe of khorne 5 points cheaper than the black axe.....
Maybe they will faq the same week like they did with the chaos codex..
On the plus side I guess hounds will sell like hot cakes. I think I will have to find my old ones.


----------



## frenchi861

What is the new base size for the hounds?


----------



## Nordicus

frenchi861 said:


> What is the new base size for the hounds?


In the codex they are shown with Juggernaut/Bloodcrusher bases.

However, on the webstore they are shown with cavalry bases for Fantasy, which are usually translated to bike bases for 40k. Hence my confusion.


----------



## Uveron

frenchi861 said:


> What is the new base size for the hounds?


Whatever base size you want... 

Thats GW's current policy. 


My Plan use Imperial Knight bases, :grin: Or may be not.


----------



## Badknox

while you're at it just put the 8 cultists on a knight base too, 

a couple die from shooting,then all you have to do is conveniently fail the leadership test and you're lifting one base off the board instead of 8


----------



## Vaz

Uveron said:


> Whatever base size you want...
> 
> Thats GW's current policy.
> 
> 
> My Plan use Imperial Knight bases, :grin: Or may be not.


The rules aay differently.


----------



## venomlust

One more little annoyance: Terminator Champions can't take an Axe of Khorne.


----------



## venomlust

For some reason Karanak has been added to the HQ section in the GW website.


----------



## Squire

Haven't seen the codex but from reading the Bell article that blood point table looks awesome. Khorne could be a really fun army to play


----------



## Zion

Been a while since I did a review/overview of a book. So if anyone is interested, here you go: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2015/03/new-release-codex-khorne-daemonkin.html


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## venomlust

I think that more or less wraps this up as a rumor discussion. I'll start a thread on the tactics forum or something.


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## GuiltySparc

venomlust said:


> I think that more or less wraps this up as a rumor discussion. I'll start a thread on the tactics forum or something.


Throw a link to your new thread in this thread when you make it if you don't mind.

I am actually still pretty excited about this book. I think it will be really fun to play. Also, since the hounds have scout then you can give your juggerlord scout also by putting him with them, which sounds pretty useful.


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## venomlust

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=183522

Here is the new thread!


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## mrknify

Getting into the discussion late....
I will go back a couple years when rumours were first popping up. The rumours were foreshadowing....

The point.

One of the sets actually list items from the khorne daemonkin book, I believe do to the tight lipped nature of gw and with time for production of books and product, that a lot of the items we are seeing now have been collecting dust for a year. Waiting for the rest of the line to be ready for release.

Here's a link to the "nurgle daemonkin" rumour from bell of lost souls.

 http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2013/11/nurgle-codex-supplement-cover-seen.html?m=1


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## venomlust

I dunno, the only parts about that rumor that ended up being "true" for Khorne Daemonkin are: 

Berzerkers as troops, new gear, new warlord traits.

I got hung up on those rumors for a while. Never happened, will never happen.

The Nurgle book is probably coming eventually, but reliable rumors only seem to pop up a month or two in advance. I don't track ALL rumors, so your mileage may vary.


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