# Space Marines Vs 2010 Earth



## Moxsis (Sep 9, 2009)

I have thought about this for awhile, and if it has been talked about before I'm sorry.

So the question is. If a Space Marine chapter, for the sake of argument lets say Ultramarines. If they sent one battle company and not the 1st (100 Marines) to earth to take it, would they win? Now I understand that this planet might not be of any interest to them, and the SM and us aren't even in the same time period, but this is just for fun. Also lets say for the sake of interesting conversation that they want this world for recruitment, so orbital bombardment is not an option.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

1. Space Marine power armor is pretty much perfect protection from anything smaller then a sidewinder missile.

2. They can bomb targets from orbit. (I know you said that they don't want to destroy the planet, but they can use tactical strikes and keep the planet in good shape)

3. a lone space marine can probably hold an entire city by himself.


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## Abbott (Aug 1, 2009)

Hold an entire city? I know their super human but thats to much, a single marine could probably hold a town at most (shear size of city is to big to cover and amount of resistance would be to fierce).


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

I am not saying that they could enforce their order everywhere. Simply that a space marine is for all intents and purposes invincible to anything short of a nuclear weapon. Any massing to troops against a lone marine will fail.


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## Abbott (Aug 1, 2009)

tank shells could probably do some damage, direct hit against a marine would either kill or bust him up goooood


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

Only if you hit him in the right spot. I direct hit to the chest plate will knock him down but the plate itself will be intact. 

Space Marines are suppose to be unstoppable warriors capable of taking on things that are beyond the scope of mere mortals. a lone company is all you need to defeat hordes of Orks, armies of Tau or Tyranid infestations. If they were so easy to beat that we could do it then what is the point of even making them?


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## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

Just Nuc the bastards


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

That's really the only way you can deal with them. Though even that is probably harder then you think. You have to get the warhead to them. And I am sure that they train to deal with that.


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## DeathTyrant (Aug 23, 2009)

You would need dedicated anti-materiel rifles and the like to reliably penetrate SM Power Armour, I would imagine. Small arms fire would probably do bugger all. 
So, the sort of firepower you get on something like a Bradley would be a starting point. An M1A2 Abrams or Challenger 2 firing Depleted Uranium Rounds should do the trick quite nicely, I am sure. 

But then those are tanks we are talking about.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

Your not talking about steel or titanium or carbon armor. Your talking about CERAMITE and ADAMANTIUM. There is nothing on earth that can scratch this stuff. 

Look at it this way. Force equals mass times acceleration. Now take a grain of sand that weighs roughly a nanogram, accelerate it to near-C. If you do the math you will find that that is more force then any tank weapon ever built on earth. That is what a Tau pulse rifle fires. Use that as your scale.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Oh Please Marines go down to Small Arms like every one else, Very Rare, but it happens in the FLUFF all the time. Tanith First and Only slay Scores of Marines with Las Guns!!!! Im sure Small Arms that include 50 Cal. Brownings will decimated Marines as well as a Eldar Shuriken Catapult. Yes those Shuriken Catapults bring Marines down in the Fluff aswell. Now by no means is a M16 or AK going thru there armore like paper but the Power Armore has weak points were Explosions and well placed shots will bring a marine down. Also if 20+ People jump on top a Marine, then that Marine is Pinned, Orks do this and Scarabs have as well. There not Superman with Spartan Armore. It take more but 45 Cal to 50 Cal hand guns would work, and most Rifles would equal a Bolter. 50 Cal Machine gun and a MK 19 would equal death to these Marines. So if a Marine Battalion with Air Support (F-18s, Cobras, Warthogs, Specter Gunships), M1-A1 Abrahams, Up Armored HMMWVs (with 50s and MK 19 mountings), Marine Recon Sniper Teams, and the typical 1000 man Strong Marine Detachment (armed with M-16s, M-60s, Claymores, Frags, M-240 Bravos, and Desert Eagles) would beat a 100 Man Strong Company of Astartes.

Fluff says the would win too. Tanith First and Only do this with alot less.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

I recall another book that just came out where a world was attacked by hundreds of orks and the closest space marine chapter sent in one marine to deal with it. One marine against hundreds of orks.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Okay so I guess this debate is all about who is "writing" the war for Planet Earth huh?


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

GabrialSagan said:


> Your not talking about steel or titanium or carbon armor. Your talking about CERAMITE and ADAMANTIUM. There is nothing on earth that can scratch this stuff.
> 
> Look at it this way. Force equals mass times acceleration. Now take a grain of sand that weighs roughly a nanogram, accelerate it to near-C. If you do the math you will find that that is more force then any tank weapon ever built on earth. That is what a Tau pulse rifle fires. Use that as your scale.


Warlock answered it quite well, but yeah, I think you're putting a little too much faith in the marines, super human though they are they are not gods. Marines actually work best as shock troops and strike forces, a company of them could not hope to capture or control any planet without significant other forces at their disposal (usually IG or local PDFs). They are meant to go in, disable the enemy leaders/strong points and positions, against which their small numbers can do maximum damage. Tying to pin down an entire planet would be impossible for only 100 guys.

As for against modern day earth, you might think that marines can just take depleted uranium AT shells to the chest without worry (and I think that would kill them anyway), but even so, remember that with enough explosives, it ceases to matter anyway. Just keep shelling the bastards, and they won't actually be able to do anything because they're being constantly bombarded by high explosives. no matter how much armour you're wearing, you can't stop yourself being bounced up and down by large explosions, its pure physics, even assuming they didn't take any damage.

100 Marines is really useless against an entire planet worth of opponents, unless they gain control through intimidation of or a precise strike against world leaders. Even that would only work if everyone lay down and accepted it...


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Nuke The Bastards! Nuke, Nuke!


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## Ryuzaki (Nov 1, 2009)

Hmmm, intersting concept...

I'd have to say the marines, not only for their superiority in the areas of stregnth and technology (which have been spoken about already), but their ability to _out think_ us. Not only can "regular" marines out think us easily, the Ultramarines in particular are known for their tactical genius even amongst the arstartes.

They'd find out as much about our planet as possible before attacking (and we don't have the technology to get rid of their low orbiting battle barge/s during the process). They'll find our weak points not only by geographic location but though _our_ knowlege of the situation and how we would react to attacks in certain areas. They'd rip us apart bit by bit, striking where we'd least expect it because they'd know we'd least expect it. I know this sounds more like the eldar way, but the fact is they _are_ smarter than us and would use that to their advantage. Besides, when hopelessly outnumbered even the headstrong, overconfident marines would think things through properly before moving into an engagment. You can't beat an opponant who knows what your about to do before you do. Finally, think of how divided we are already. Do you _really_ think the world would just suddenly unite, definetly not. If country A saw their enemy country B attacked by marines, then what's stopping them from just sitting back and NOT fighting them. That is of course untill the marines come to country A.

Then you add in the fact that marines are kickass in every other way...


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## Fire Lord (Feb 15, 2009)

I hate to say it, but the spess mahreens probably get the win. Not because of their "perfection" through armor tech, but because of tactical knowledge. Planetary assualt was their first roll during the great crusade, which they excelled at. With one battle barge, fighting our planet at the current technological advancement should not be a hard task. Now just a hundred marines on the ground with no support and no transport would be a possible win for the planet. 

:ireful2: The over the top faith and blind love of the marines. :sarcastichand:
No personal attack here. Space Marines are not perfect, they die like everything else. Might take a bit more, but they die. :cray:


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

maddermax has a good point. Marines are not meant to conquer and occupy territory. They are meant to drop in, find the enemy and destroy them and move on leaving the Imperial Guard to hold the planet for the Emperor. 

That said I think that they could effectively do that on Earth. Eventually we might wear them down and in a war of attrition 100 marines will eventually lose and an indigenous hostile population the way that everyone loses in Afghanistan. 

That said if they had a time table. In 24 months the Imperial Guard 251st Cadian was coming to hold the planet and they had to make it ready before then. That they can do, easily.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I think nothing short of a Whole Chapter with a Battle Barge and small fleet could take earth in a straight up fight. Through Orbital Bombardment we lose easy because we have NO way of dealing with that. But in a Ground pound War we win. Most Countries Millitary Forces are the size (and are Tanks is higher than IGs Tanks) of a regular IG PDF. We could easy beat 100 Marines in a ground war, And some Countries Special Forces are as badass (if not more so) than Tanith First and Only who fight Marines (the tatical masters) all the time with hit and runs. We can (and do) too. The only option of the Barge is to launch our Nuclear Stock Pile at it. If 1 gets thru (and theres 100K of these warheads around) that barge will be gone. In the end it depends if certain countries unite. im thinking America, England, Russia, China, and any other country willing to throw bodies and resources can pull wins against a Chapter. 1 Country should deal with 1 company. Just me.


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

Well lets look at a few things in comparisson

40k shotguns = shotguns, Essentially the same for all purposes.
Autoguns = modern Assault rifles. For those of you who remember Autoguns they are equivalent to Lasguns
Missile Launchers = Yup be have them
Grenade Launchers = Yup those too

We as a world know how to throw grenades, unlike Those UltraMarines :biggrin:
In WWII it was shown that a determined foe can singlehandedly take out a tank with a Molatov Cocktail. Primitive grenades were used to blow tracks from tanks and effectivly disable them.

Even a full Battlecompany w/ SM only support would no be able to pacify a fractured, War centered, world like ours in any reasonable amount of time. In the great crusades the SM's allowed for the initial assault and Dropsite securing, which would easily be possible. However they needed the Guard and the number of bodies they provided with the ability to hold and pacify the areas taken by the Marines. 

Taking the US as the prime target, they would have to completely nutralize the entire command structure of the armed forces. Sacking the president would not really accomplish anything. Otherwise even a regional resistance to occupation will quickly spring up behind whatever General/CO had the brains enough to gather and respond


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

The President is a Figure Head. Plain and Simple, he has the final say about Strategies, but know real Tatical Power. That belongs to the Generals/Admirals of the Pentagon. Then theres plenty of COs of Commands with the resources to tackle 100 man Company of SMs, like Naval Base Norfolk/Naval Amphibious Base Littlecreek. These 2 places house the Navy Seals, Seabees, and Carriers of the entire Alantic Fleet. Thats enough to deal with any Company and they can make there own minds about whats best for defense and offense if the Pentagon blew up and our President/Staff was killed. Our planet is the equal of IG PDFs without Fleet Support.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

IG tanks and munitions are built using the advanced materials that make space marine armor so hard to penetrate. 

Think of it this way. If the gates of hell opened up and the biblical apocalypse started and demons started running around violating people in the face do you really think that we, the human race would be able to beat back the hordes of Satan? 

For the space marines turning back the armies of Hell is what they do. 

You know that this conversation has happened on Ultramar.

3rd Company captain: My lord, an army of daemons has swept over the surface of Caldor 3, the people are being tormented by the Daemon prince Asmodeus and are having there intestines burned as offerings to Khorne.

Chapter Master: Asmodeus? must be Tuesday, take your company and go take care of it.

Space Marines only exist in your imagination. They are angels. They are the warriors of God. How pathetic would they be if we modern men were a match for the Armies of Heaven? how lack-luster these angels of death become if they could be defeated by the USMC?


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

Gabrial, you give far too much credit to the armour of the space marines. Many of these other people are right, their weapons are in fact very similar to ours. We even have equivalents to their bolters now, the MK19 automatic grenade launcher. Our anti-material rifles will also have little trouble penetrating the soft spots of their armour, or even through the thinner plates.

Not to mention the fact that we do have prototype, working rail guns. Which last time I checked, demolished the Space Marine Land Raiders all too well.

Also, lets say a tank shell, for the sake of argument that the mk19 isnt strong enough, is equal to a bolter. Marines die to other bolters, which are essentially HE rounds, and we have AP rounds too. Not to mention the rounds that penetrate metres of concrete before exploding. For some reason, I think that humanity does actually stand a pretty damn decent chance against 100 space marines. Not to mention the weapons in development that we dont actually know about yet.

If the space marines were as awesome as you claim, then whats the point in even playing warhammer because OBVIOUSLY the space marines are the best there ever was and ever will be and should just win by default because they are so epic-uber-awesome. Stop being so biased in your opinion and actually consider the facts regarding what we do and what they do.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

Ordo, you are missing my point. They are awesome. But their foes are equally awesome. They are the angels of death, the warriors of the God-Emperor created by his divine hand to defend humanity from the terrors that lurk between the stars. 

100 space marines is all it takes to defeat a horde of Orks, a nest of Tyranids or THE ARMIES OF HELL!!!

I am not making a literal argument,I am making a thematic one. The Space Marines are divine heroes, nothing more and nothing less then men exalted to become more so they can fight things that men were not meant to fight. 

If you think I am wrong then do the math. How many shots from a Tau Pulse rifle (299337.984 Newtons) does it take to penetrate space marine armor? Apply that same force to a modern tank and tell me what happens. 

I think I need to restate that since Space Marines are not real, and they have access to technology that does not exist we can only speculate based on the writings of authors who would have given them different levels of badassery based on what role they needed to serve in the plot of their story.

I am just saying that if you had to choose between pussy marines who die at the first sign of a US Marine with depleted Uranium rounds and righteous warriors who stand up to the deamon princes of Hell who are you going to choose?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

The Pussy Marine cause Im a realtist and not a day dreamer. Its nice to think Superman flys around and turns back time by going the oppssit of the earths rotation but that line of thinking is purely Bullshit. Same with crack pot writers who think a company can take a horde of Orks with impenatrable armore. Ive read just as much decent BL Books to know that Marines are not as uber awsome as the exceptional Human. People like Yarrick and Straken comes to mind. Creed and Sly Marbo. People like that do exist in the hundreds, we call them Special Forces. Also plenty of IG and PDF have stood up to CSMs and Daemons, there called Catachans and Cadians. Cadians praticaly keep Daemons as live Target Practice for bootcamp these days.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

If your a realist and not a day dreamer then you should not be playing a game about super soldiers in space fighting aliens and daemons. 

The IG has access to technology that does not exist on Earth. Plasma weapons and Lasguns are the wet dreams of the modern military. When the IG fight daemons they die by the millions, but it is ok because their are billions more to take their place. We on Earth do not have the inexhaustible cannon fodder of the Imperium.


Its more then just their weapons and armor. Though that plays a big role as well. Space Marines devote their lives to war, their multi-centennial lives. They spend hundreds of years doing nothing but killing monsters. They are each a a super-hero in their abilities, and that is before you put on the armor and give them their bolters.


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## Moxsis (Sep 9, 2009)

Easy guys, I dont want this to turn into anything more than a fun talk about a game we enjoy playing. :so_happy: We also have to ignore the IG because the SM want the planet for themselvs not for the Imperium. So no IG support.

I think that SM are very good shock troops. But I think that this is a very big advantage to them. In the corse of 1-2 months they could have shock attacked each country in power and taken out their leaders. With their leaders gone. Do you reall think people will be able to defend themself? I mean lets face it, one person can be smart and tactical, but if you look at the people of this planet in the millions we are scared, we panic easy, and don't really care to much for what happens to another person, as long as its not them.

The SM wouls have learned all they could about this world before they attack, and we will have no idea they are watching us untill its to late. They will know how our armies work and who leads them. They will take them out. Whenyou cut of the head of the army, I really dont think one would rise up and be able to take control of the troops before its to late.


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## Ryuzaki (Nov 1, 2009)

If you pit 100 marines against the world in 1 massive combat, the world would win no contest. The point is with marines that it's not 1 big combat, it's one step at a time. We have more than enough military power to crush every last marine to dust, but we don't keep our military on every street of every country.

If you pit 10 man tac squad against a suburb, what's gonna stop them, the police? The police don't get fancy rocket launchers and souped up state of the art weaponry in abundance like the military does, it's just unneccesary for their role. We have the military, but by the time they react the marines have moved on. Of course this won't apply to every combat (you can't claim a planet while it still has its military), but by the time the marines attack them, they'd be so strung out trying to protect their entire country at once, they become ineffective. As tactically stupid as that sounds, it's politics. Leaders need to make their people feel safe (to stay in power), so everybody has to feel the military presence of that safety. If not, it's the marines AND rioters vs country A.


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## Fire Lord (Feb 15, 2009)

Why isn't there a smilie face bowing before a space marine idol(preferably an ultramarine)? They could call it the gabrial smilie! :laugh::laugh: All in favor of a new smilie, say I. Just joking.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

GabrialSagan said:


> If your a realist and not a day dreamer then you should not be playing a game about super soldiers in space fighting aliens and daemons.



Just becuase Im a realist doesnt mean I dont like Aleins or Terminator. What I dont like is someone saying Chuck Norris can beat a room full of MMA fighters cause hes Chuck Norris. Thats Daydreaming and completly BS just like invincable SMs. Also whats Fiction Today is Fact Tommorow. Submarines like 2000 Leagues was complete Fiction back in its day, Fact now, Same goes for early attempts at flight, now we have Super Sonic Jets and Space Shuttles :wink:. Yes Im a realitist that enjoys painting Space Men k:. 


Ryu, people dont seem to remeber North Korea, Russia, or China politics. They praticaly are the IG in tatics. Fuck the comman man and will protect their assets. I dont know how Europe Politics work but America will send a Company of Troops at the most to react. If the Marines Try that Subarban Crap it will not work the way they intend. America will invest in a larger Police Force and like the days during the 1930s when Crimminals were better arm than the Police, the Force will be issue M-16s and M-280 atachments (Genade Launcher) to deal with the situation, and lets not forget 1 in 10 Americans have Assault Rifels and 45.s via second admendent. Middle East and Africa will be harder to target due to the fact a city like Somalia will be hard to take as every man, woman, and CHILD have a AK and RPG. Again to much credit to a 100 man Tac Squad. Also if they took out head leaders, the COC in Millitary Forces will continue to operate (like the Alpha Legion) and Millitary Bases will still be able to Communicate with one another and form a Plan. Air Force 1 can run the whole country up in the air for years, hows a 100 Tac Squad getting at that?

I still say nothing short of a Chapter (with the Battle Barges, Tanks, and Dreads) will through Force and Tatics subdue our World.


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## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

Wait a second, isn't Earth Holy Terra, why would the SM's attack Terra

Joke guys, it's a joke.

Well, for me I would say Earth would win, but only just.

Has anyone read the Mathew Riley Books on Scarecrow, in one he takes on a team of 7th squadron guys (Modern day equivelent of SMs) and he killed 5 with a high powered grenade that's supposed to kill Buildings


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

Yeah, but there are many states in the western united states that would welcome the "loss of federal control" Thanks to the fear of terrorism there has been alot of re-emergence of private militias, Think of Burt from the movie Tremors.

Yes is aliens plopped down in the middle of a non-military target then they are obviously going to win. It is kind of the same as if any major military power were to simply plop down in New York. Of course they are going to win.

You kind of proved your own point, Any nation worth it's salt is not going to go running around the nation trying to "track down the attackers" instead they are going to consolodiate thier power and secure logistical areas of the country, at least those that survive from the initial assault. At that point if the UM's wanted to have a victory, they would have to come after the defensive postions. Yes they are "experts" at attacking, but there is only so much 100 guys can do without taking debilitating losses.

In times of War the politions do not need to "make people feel safe" look at Europe during WWII When the fighting came, people were smart enough to simply get out of the way many times. During times of war, especially against an alien agressor, the only word you need to get out is: Stay out of the way or get shot, We do not know the agressors agenda and have denied peaceful parley, it is in the publics best intrest to find a secure area and let the military take care of things. If I were a rioter/looter during a time of war. I'd expect to be shot at by both sides, even if only by accident.

As to cutting the head of the army, they simply wouldn't be able to do that in one "fell swoop" I'm saying this because much of the US military is considered a "volunteer" army, Yeah you are going to get the career soldiers strutting their stuff, but many time the leadership is not simply going to anounce themselves.

Besides going with all I've read about the Marines they send a "negotiation" party first and foremost to declare that the planet is considered "theirs" trying to take the planet by as little force as possible. This would give some elements time to organize as word would have gotten out during the parley over capitulation or fighting.


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## Moxsis (Sep 9, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> I still say nothing short of a Chapter (with the Battle Barges, Tanks, and Dreads) will through Force and Tactics subdue our World.


Well hold on, I didn't say just 100 SM I said a battle company.

For example, the Ultramarines 4th Co. would come with:
6 Tactical Squads
2 Devastator Squads
2 Assault Squads

The assault squads could be deployed with Bikes or Land speeders, depending on what is needed.

The Tac and Dev squads would come with Rhinos and/or Razor Backs.

Also they would come with dreadnoughts.



Edit: Also, with Dev squads come far Superior fire power.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

You can throw in LSs, a dread or 2, and Devies, the fact remains is the SMs Company (Roughly a Hundred) is out gun and out man by most Countries. A Whole Chapter with Battle Barges and Fleet Support is needed for a sure win.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Being up in orbit would give the the SMs the key to victory- our satellites. Once they'd taken out all of the comms and GPS satellites, plus any others they though would be useful to the enemy (us!), then even the US army would just be a collection of very expensive ordinary weapons.
Without satellites, there wouldn't be any 'precision' weapons (if that term is appropriate at any time), and the various armed forces would be forced to fall back on primitive radio comms, which could be jammed. Using Thunderhawks and probably orbital strikes, Earth air-power would be whittled away, and we know just how much modern armies rely on air-superiority. And all of these things could be done without any SMs actually setting foot on the planet's surface.
After this, then, using Drop Pods and Deep Strikes, they could take out high-importance targets, almost at will. Can you imagine if the Pentagon, or GCHQ, or their other-country-counterparts were destroyed? A whole Battle CO dedicated to taking out a single, small-scale target- no contest!
This is how I would see SMs taking on modern-day Earth. They wouldn't drop in screaming and bare-headed! They would dismantle the apparauts of war, leaving, maybe, the TV networks intact so that psychological warfare would parallel military efforts; just 'cos it's UMs doing the fighting doesn't mean that they won't consider psychological war; I don't doubt Guilliman sawthe importance. Occasionaly, the SMs would commit the Battle CO, at times and places, and against opposition, of their choosing; they would rip apart infantry, probably even mounted infantry; shoot-down, then destroy airborne troops; melt tank formations from orbit, probably ANY concentration of vehicles/troops would bring down an orbital strike. In short, the SMs would control every aspect of the battle (if they didn't screw-up, which is always a possibilty), hamstringing the more militarily-advanced countries, and being able to effectively ignore small troop formations. I doubt guerilla war would work when it comes to Power Armoured enemies! My $0.87.

GFP


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## Shacklock (Dec 15, 2009)

I'd confidently pitt the SAS or the SBS against spacemarines *grin* But hmmh realistcly I'm not sure. Sure power-armour is great and all but essentially it boils down to Sci-Fi fullplate, its got weakspots and joints. The Astartes would have a distinct morale advantage, I immagine it wouldent take long to break and rout when a squad of giants in armour are running towards you firing dutty big explosive tipped rounds into your mates. Anywho the SM would win soundly until the momentum wore off and organised counter attacks were launched.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Being up in orbit would give the the SMs the key to victory- our satellites. Once they'd taken out all of the comms and GPS satellites, plus any others they though would be useful to the enemy (us!), then even the US army would just be a collection of very expensive ordinary weapons.
> Without satellites, there wouldn't be any 'precision' weapons (if that term is appropriate at any time), and the various armed forces would be forced to fall back on primitive radio comms, which could be jammed. Using Thunderhawks and probably orbital strikes, Earth air-power would be whittled away, and we know just how much modern armies rely on air-superiority. And all of these things could be done without any SMs actually setting foot on the planet's surface.
> After this, then, using Drop Pods and Deep Strikes, they could take out high-importance targets, almost at will. Can you imagine if the Pentagon, or GCHQ, or their other-country-counterparts were destroyed? A whole Battle CO dedicated to taking out a single, small-scale target- no contest!
> This is how I would see SMs taking on modern-day Earth. They wouldn't drop in screaming and bare-headed! They would dismantle the apparauts of war, leaving, maybe, the TV networks intact so that psychological warfare would parallel military efforts; just 'cos it's UMs doing the fighting doesn't mean that they won't consider psychological war; I don't doubt Guilliman sawthe importance. Occasionaly, the SMs would commit the Battle CO, at times and places, and against opposition, of their choosing; they would rip apart infantry, probably even mounted infantry; shoot-down, then destroy airborne troops; melt tank formations from orbit, probably ANY concentration of vehicles/troops would bring down an orbital strike. In short, the SMs would control every aspect of the battle (if they didn't screw-up, which is always a possibilty), hamstringing the more militarily-advanced countries, and being able to effectively ignore small troop formations. I doubt guerilla war would work when it comes to Power Armoured enemies! My $0.87.
> ...


Thats agreeable, However I doubt a entire Fleet and Battle Barge (for the Orbital Strikes) would be given to a single company. Maybe a Strike Cruiser. As for the Sattelites, thats questionable, our orbit is a giant garbage collecter from all the crap we threw up there, and to my knowledge (fluff) nothing short of Admechs would know whats use for what up there. Also during WW2, Vietnam, Korean War we had no Sattelites, thats very recent, and anybody whos part of the mallitary knows we dont rely on that crap half the time cause its faulty to begin with. Morse Code and short range Radio is very hard to counter. Another things is alot of short range missiles and rockets are self guiding, they require no Sattelits to work and track. I can see Drop Pods going badly. Guerilla warfare would work wonders on Most Marines, Ultra Marines are the highest form of Jack of all Trades, Master of None. I can very much see tatics (again like Tanith First and Only) of Guerilla warfare would work well on a single company. But as far as air superiorty goes, the Marines would have that in Spades. If they had a Fleet of IG ships at there disposal they win hands down.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Warlock, a single vessel, be it Battlebarge or Strike Cruiser, would be enough to destroy the satellites; I'm not suggesting an entire fleet by any means. Also, even though near-Earth orbit IS full of crap, I don't doubt auspex scans would show which bits of floating metal have a. power, b. are in regular contact with ground-based agencies.
As for self-guiding rockets, how do you think the modern ones do this? By GPS, of course. Why would anyone bother using any other method when, at the moment, this is the best we've got? Certainly, I don't doubt missiles could be retro-fitted to use more primitive navigation methods, a la the V1 and V2 rockets, but this would utterly negate their usefulness as they would be so inaccurate as to be pointless; a Cruise missile's warhead is deadly when you can get it into the door of the building you're after, but if it misses by 3 blocks then it's utterly useless. Jamming radio would negate morse comms, unless they were by direct and line-based means, which would be impossible for an army in the field that is trying to manouever. The short-range munitions would cause SMs problems, but, as I said, they would make sure the battle is on their terms, and would probably close with the enemy as quickly as possible, negating their use.
Why would Drop Pods go badly? As for guerillas, if the SMs are based in orbit, only descending to attack and immediately leaving again, how could any guerilla hope to have any effect? IEDs would be pointless unless you could lure the SMs into range, but once that has been done, I would imagine they would just plaster any similar targets from the air. After all, once the SMs have dismantled the bigger armies' command structures, and reduced their armour and materiel to slag, they would just sit back and wait for the Guard to come in and do the dirty work!

GFP

EDIT- Just read this back, and it sounds a lot more arsey than I'd intended, as well as a bit full of myself. I certainly didn't mean to try to push aside anyone's opinion and was only trying to further an interesting discussion.


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## Captain Forrix (Nov 10, 2009)

Remember that in Tales of Heresy there was the story about the Dark Angels Chapter Commander Astellen and the second Chapter of new Dark Angels from Caliban. And how they were able to bring a world technologicly the same(roughly) as ours that was ruled by FOUR Superstates completly under control in a few days(Note they had ALL major population centers under control in just one day) Partly because they bombed to smithereens the cities and I am sure that all satellites (GPS, News, Communication Etc.)
were completely obliterated. I am also sure that on the topic of one company vs our Earth that they would nuke us to the point of extinction first then while our remaning troops try to stave off anarchy they would then come and destroy any resistance. Yes a Battle Company of Warriors who conquered the Galaxy could definatly conquer Earth


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> As for self-guiding rockets, how do you think the modern ones do this? Its called Laser-Guided and TV Guided for a reason. You don't need satellites for that. Heck, we even still use wire-guided sometimes, until the weapons own sonar (or other tracking system) takes over.
> 
> a Cruise missile's warhead is deadly when you can get it into the door of the building you're after I do believe you are referring to smart missiles. A cruise missile is still useful within 3 blocks considering modern payloads
> 
> ...



Just my counters to your arguments


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Just read this back, and it sounds a lot more arsey than I'd intended, as well as a bit full of myself. I certainly didn't mean to try to push aside anyone's opinion and was only trying to further an interesting discussion.


Wouldnt be a debate if you didnt try to force your way of thinking.k:



Ordo Xeno Commander said:


> Just my counters to your arguments


What he said. :so_happy:


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## Dr Mattheus (Jan 16, 2010)

Ha all we would have to do is unleash the tuaminator(David Tua) on them, and the pope to kill their chaplian. Yeah =)


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

didn't they want the planet for recruitment, space marines would just bomb all military bases around the world. because if they want it for recruitment theres an age bracket. i don't know about you guys but id be fine with earth being part of the imperium the only down side is their marines. we could hold out for a bit but what would be the point they aren't ultimately evil.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

The Imperium is pretty much evil. They are infact space Nazi's.

Aramoro


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

1 point, if 100 super human killing machines invaded say paris how long do you think it would take for us, the UK, to nuke said city? We already don't like them add into that the matter of our survival being at stake do you think we would hesitate too long?

And no a SM will not survive a nuke, before someone tries that, they might survive the radiation if they were far enough away, but not the blast if they were caught in it.

As for tank rounds- it depends on how they work. The Challenger II doesn't fire the same style rounds as the the americans. Ours,IIRC, fire a round that contains a block of C4 which "splats" against the target before exploding not penetrating the tank but using the resulting shock wave to damage the internal components. Or something like that.

Seriously 100 marines= No Problem. Hell the SAS could probable take out 20 on their own easily and reasonably quickly. Add into that the US Special Forces, Mossad ect ect ect. it would be a short fight.

Plus out AR guns could probably take out a Drop pod or two with concentrated fire.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Yeah what are you guys talking about?

Orks take down Space Marines with weaponry that's quite similar to what armies use today.

Any of the high caliber weaponry used in the US army for example can take down a Space Marine and penetrate their armor and most especially a tank.

It doesn't matter if it's Adamantium, you greatly underestimate the strength of .50+ caliber bullets and the new stuff armies around the world are developing or have already developed.

To the dude who said nothing short of a nuclear weapon will take down a Space Marine.... lol + /facepalm.

And 100 Space Marines can take down a world? Not to mention a world of 6 billion people? The worlds in the WH40K universe are filled with docile, basically stupid, and cowardly people. 

Take the real world and you'll find we're a different breed all together.

Also EMP grenade anybody? You'll see a Space Marine who'd fall down on his back and wouldn't be able to move. 

Our technology and even battle tactics today greatly outclasses that of the Imperium other than a few things (space travel, power armor, etc.), power armor is already being worked on.

I mean I'm a Space Marine fanboy but I don't exaggerate their abilities to the degree most of you do lol.


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

o god...

space marines in game terms are seriously nerfed as to what they could do to any other race. they would simply own everyone. you read fluff in the books that says a single spaced marine has left his chapter and risen to be leader of an entire planet - on his own. if it was real life, which it isnt by the way so bleh bleh bleh. space marines wouldnt be sitting round waiting to be shot coz its the humans turn. they would win - we would lose!


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

MJayC50 said:


> o god...
> 
> space marines in game terms are seriously nerfed as to what they could do to any other race. they would simply own everyone. you read fluff in the books that says a single spaced marine has left his chapter and risen to be leader of an entire planet - on his own. if it was real life, which it isnt by the way so bleh bleh bleh. space marines wouldnt be sitting round waiting to be shot coz its the humans turn. they would win - we would lose!


The only case that I'm aware of in which that occurred was that Fallen Dark Angel from Gav Thorpe's 'Dark Angels' and even then he got a lot of support, winning groups of militiamen slowly and slowly.

And who cares about the tabletop game rules? *Obviously * x 10 they have no relevance in regards to how strong a Space Marine is and yeah your logic is all 'omG theY kaN hurTed uS cuz thEy aRe SpurCe maRineS anD suPer stronG anD tufF!!!' lol.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

We would loss, there are no other options. First our satellites and space stations would be blown apart. At the same time drop-pods would drop around the world at important locations and population centers. The world would be thrown into disarray. Humans would lose the moral when they see the Space Marines walking through hails of bullets, Devastators marines blowing tanks apart. And I beat the Space Marines would call in precision air strikes at military bases. We would pretty quickly be pledging for mercy, throwing our weapons to the ground. 

Our air forces would be sabotaged by scouts or bombarded by the battle barges. And, a nuke would not take down the battle barge, and when all our satellites would be down, we would not even know its location. 

You can call me a stupid Space Marine fanboy, cuz I say that Space Marines would survive tank shells and 50. cal shoots. These things might kill Space Marines, but they would not be able to kill them all. Srsly, we could not win, the SAS, Spetsnaz or the SEALs, whatever, we would not stand a CHANCE!


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Doelago said:


> "We would loss, there are no other options. First our satellites and space stations would be blown apart. At the same time drop-pods would drop around the world at important locations and population centers. The world would be thrown into disarray. Humans would lose the moral when they see the Space Marines walking through hails of bullets, Devastators marines blowing tanks apart. And I beat the Space Marines would call in precision air strikes at military bases. We would pretty quickly be pledging for mercy, throwing our weapons to the ground.
> 
> Our air forces would be sabotaged by scouts or bombarded by the battle barges. And, a nuke would not take down the battle barge, and when all our satellites would be down, we would not even know its location."


The topic is about 100 Space Marines vs the world, not an entire Space Marine chapter complete with all their war machines. And even if it were, a single chapter complete with all their weapons would not come close to being able to take over Earth 2010.



Doelago said:


> "The world would be thrown into disarray. Humans would lose the moral when they see the Space Marines walking through hails of bullets, Devastators marines blowing tanks apart"


Humans wouldn't really be scared or terrified en masse, of course you'll have the soccer moms and a general few running scared but as I said, we are not as docile and complacent as the humans sci-fi authors or film-makers depict in their works. Especially seeing as how said humans would be familiar of such scenarios seeing as how they've read about them or seen them on film.



Doelago said:


> You can call me a stupid Space Marine fanboy, cuz I say that Space Marines would survive tank shells and 50. cal shoots. These things might kill Space Marines, but they would not be able to kill them all. Srsly, we could not win, the SAS, Spetsnaz or the SEALs, whatever, we would not stand a CHANCE!


Space Marines can't survive a direct hit from a tank, the sheer absurdity of that statement will take me a few hours to recuperate from.

The SAS, Spetznaz, Seals and other elite infantry units would not stand a good chance against a group of Space Marines yes, but that is not what the topic is about.

But there have been many examples of rag-tag farmers, criminals turned Infantry Guard units taking down Space-Marines through sheer firepower, overwhelming them, or hitting their weak spots usually being their eyes/eye slots in their helmets or the gaps in between their armor joints.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> The topic is about 100 Space Marines vs the world, not an entire Space Marine chapter complete with all their war machines. And even if it were, a single chapter complete with all their weapons would not come close to being able to take over Earth 2010.
> 
> Space Marines can't survive a direct hit from a tank, the sheer absurdity of that statement will take me a few hours to recuperate from.


Space Marines can take direct tank hits, thats is in the novels and everywhere else. And when did I say there was more than a company of Marines?


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

Actually, I'd be willing to bet that the Ultramarines could take 2010 earth with only a handful of shots fired (if that). I think people forget just how charismatic an Astartes can be if he so chooses.

If they wanted us for recruiting/thrall it would be in their favour for us to be willing, thus they would most likely _*Not*_ come in with guns blazing but with hands open (at first). They would offer technology, medical data, etc that would be a golden carrot to the world leaders. It is only after all the overtures fail that they come in as a conquering force and if it came to that they would take us apart because Ultramarines would NOT engage into a full out attack without every one of their ducks in a row. 

Codex tactics and pin-point strikes would see our defending forces shattered in 24 hours.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Doelago said:


> Space Marines can take direct tank hits, thats is in the novels and everywhere else.


No no it's not. 



Doelago said:


> And when did I say there was more than a company of Marines?


*
I highlighted the parts where you did in green.*



Doelago said:


> We would loss, there are no other options. First our satellites and space stations would be blown apart (A group of Space Marines can't attack things in space). At the same time drop-pods would drop around the world at important locations and population centers. (drop pods meaning they'll drop one space marine at a time all over the world? So one Space Marine lands in some province in China for example? And he would dominate? lol /facepalm) The world would be thrown into disarray. Humans would lose the moral when they see the Space Marines walking through hails of bullets, Devastators marines blowing tanks apart. And I beat the Space Marines would call in precision air strikes at military bases. We would pretty quickly be pledging for mercy, throwing our weapons to the ground.
> 
> Our air forces would be sabotaged by scouts or bombarded by the battle barges. And, a nuke would not take down the battle barge, and when all our satellites would be down, we would not even know its location.





Euphrati said:


> Actually, I'd be willing to bet that the Ultramarines could take 2010 earth with only a handful of shots fired (if that). I think people forget just how charismatic an Astartes can be if he so chooses.
> 
> If they wanted us for recruiting/thrall it would be in their favour for us to be willing, thus they would most likely _*Not*_ come in with guns blazing but with hands open (at first). They would offer technology, medical data, etc that would be a golden carrot to the world leaders. It is only after all the overtures fail that they come in as a conquering force and if it came to that they would take us apart because Ultramarines would NOT engage into a full out attack without every one of their ducks in a row.
> 
> Codex tactics and pin-point strikes would see our defending forces shattered in 24 hours.


Again, this is not about a Primarch + his entire chapter + weaponry vs Earth. The topic is about a group of regular Space Marines vs Earth 2010, not a group of the Adeptus Mechanicum offering us technology that's inferior to what we already have besides a few things.

Even if it was, 1 chapter vs our world = chapter losing.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Srsly, none of those things says that there is *more* than a company of Space Marines. A codex company consists of *six tactical squads, two assault squads, two devastator squads, a command squad with the captain, possibly a second squad to the Chaplain or the Librarian, plus their dreadnoughts. And how the **** does the battle barge count as something of more than a company?* And yes, when I wrote Battle Barges, the *s* was not supposed to be there! And BTW, the battle barge destroyed the satellites and space stations


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Euphrati said:


> Actually, I'd be willing to bet that the Ultramarines could take 2010 earth with only a handful of shots fired (if that). I think people forget just how charismatic an Astartes can be if he so chooses.
> 
> If they wanted us for recruiting/thrall it would be in their favour for us to be willing, thus they would most likely _*Not*_ come in with guns blazing but with hands open (at first). They would offer technology, medical data, etc that would be a golden carrot to the world leaders. It is only after all the overtures fail that they come in as a conquering force and if it came to that they would take us apart because Ultramarines would NOT engage into a full out attack without every one of their ducks in a row.
> 
> Codex tactics and pin-point strikes would see our defending forces shattered in 24 hours.


I agree with you. Thats the way of the Ultramarines


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

Did I ever say Primarch? or the Adeptus Mechanicum? No, I said Astartes. 

And their technology is inferior besides a 'few' things? Wow, you and I must not be reading the same fluff.


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## Atsuno11 (Jul 21, 2008)

I just wanna point something out. We do not have similiar level of technology to anyone of the 41st Millenium. This is...what? The 2nd Millenium? Yes, they lost plenty of technology, but I really doubt that we can compare our weaponry to there's on many scales. They jsut have had way more time then we have at making equipment. 

Secondly, when do guardsman take out Chaos Marines with Lasguns? Whole regiments will fall back at the report of a sinlge chaos Astrates. Obviously, this is a chaos marine, however the concept remains the same. 

And to the concept of just Nukeing them...The Space Marines have low-orbit support ships. How much do you wanna bet they could disable or destroy a nuke before it arrived. Not only that...but these sites wouold likely be obliterated long before they launched. 

People have mentioned it already, but I'm going to again. Many Space Marines have been serving longer then most humans live. They have expierence and tactical capabilites that make us look like six year old children. 

However, despite all this I must agree wtih all those who say that a hundred marines would simply be stretched to thin. They simply do not have the numbers to control the entire planet. 

So, could they take Earth? Most definetly. In short order and with great ease, I have no doubt. 

Could they hold Earth. Not indefinetly. We would eventually be able to finish them through sheer attrition, but it would take time.

Oh, and hitting a fast moving target with a tank? A direct hit? Have fun. :grin:

Totally just realized this. Space Marines have orbital bombardment capabilites. We require factories and the like to make us our weapons of war and ammunition. We need gas and oil to operate most of our equipment. The Marines could simply cripple our infrastructure. They could also cripple our communications. We would lose our production and communication facilities. 

I apologise if I sounded arrogant or insulting at any point. Totally unnintentional, I quiet enjoy these sorts of debates. :grin:


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

> Secondly, when do guardsman take out Chaos Marines with Lasguns? Whole regiments will fall back at the report of a sinlge chaos Astrates.


im sure regiments could take out a single chaos marine, in the imperium and Horus Heresy books theres a lot of refrences of how lasgun shots penetrate and wound marines =/

anyway back on topic, of course a company of space marines could take over earth 2010, nothing could possible kill them, well mabye if you constantly use the weapon again the marine for ages, but once earth would realize how powerful one astrate is they would be handing everything over so the space marines would spare their lives..

and anyway earth is future Terra so the space marines are bound to take over earth sometime :biggrin:


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

Atsuno11 said:


> People have mentioned it already, but I'm going to again. Many Space Marines have been serving longer then most humans live. They have expierence and tactical capabilites that make us look like six year old children.


WH40K can argue this point all it wants, but when it comes to the tactics available for a single man against an army, the types of strategies you can employ are limited. It doesn't matter if you live for hundreds of years; chances are you learned all there is to know within the first fifty, if not sooner.

When the space marines are percieved as a threat, their lack of numbers will probably be used against them. I wouldn't be surprised if we start using bizare tactics like slamming trucks or tanks into them, bombarding them from off shore, or any number of other seemingly stupid endeavors. Even if the force of a truck or a missile isn't enough to hurt them, the inevitable concussive force of being slammed against the ground or a wall will begin to add up. And if one of them falls and we collect their body, the scientific study on the power armor will eventually culminate with weapons that can effectively combat them.

There's just no way 100 space marines can take out Earth without aerial bombardments and the like. When they run out of ammo, and they will, a population of 6.5 billion will practically be able to reprodue faster than they could kill us.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

This is all I have to say about it. In theory 1 SM is about equal to 1,000 Imp guardsmen in Fluff speak. They could bombard and whatnot but the real problem is the armed people of the world. Like us Americans. Not every house has a gun, but everyone knows somebody that does. I myself have a .50 Cal Desert Eagle. My wife asked me when I bought it, "what are you going to shoot with that?", my reply ... whatever I want. This thing can blow a hole in an engine block. Accordint to Geneva Conventions you are not allowed to fire a .50 caliber weapon at a human target for the simple reason that even if it is just a glancing wound it is usually a death sentence. When I told her that I was going to buy a .50 Cal M82A1 (Sniper rifle that is good out to a 1&1/4 mile out with the proper scope) again she asked what are you going to shoot with that ... Humans, I said. My point is this, yes they might be superhuman but with enough small firepower anything can be destroyed. The sheer force generated by such weapons will kill anything , if there is enough of it.


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## Atsuno11 (Jul 21, 2008)

Ferrus Manus said:


> im sure regiments could take out a single chaos marine, in the imperium and Horus Heresy books theres a lot of refrences of how lasgun shots penetrate and wound marines =/:


Gaunt's Ghost books makes referance to whole regiments of guardsmen falling from reports of Chaos Marines, right before Gaunt and the Ghosts badassly take out like 8 of them. 



> This is all I have to say about it. In theory 1 SM is about equal to 1,000 Imp guardsmen in Fluff speak. They could bombard and whatnot but the real problem is the armed people of the world. Like us Americans. Not every house has a gun, but everyone knows somebody that does. I myself have a .50 Cal Desert Eagle. My wife asked me when I bought it, "what are you going to shoot with that?", my reply ... whatever I want. This thing can blow a hole in an engine block. Accordint to Geneva Conventions you are not allowed to fire a .50 caliber weapon at a human target for the simple reason that even if it is just a glancing wound it is usually a death sentence. When I told her that I was going to buy a .50 Cal M82A1 (Sniper rifle that is good out to a 1&1/4 mile out with the proper scope) again she asked what are you going to shoot with that ... Humans, I said. My point is this, yes they might be superhuman but with enough small firepower anything can be destroyed. The sheer force generated by such weapons will kill anything , if there is enough of it.


That is assuming that a .50 cal round has enough punch to penetrate power armour. Were talking about an armour designed 39,000 years in the future, so maybe the armour is capable of stopping our 2nd millenium weapons. 


> WH40K can argue this point all it wants, but when it comes to the tactics available for a single man against an army, the types of strategies you can employ are limited. It doesn't matter if you live for hundreds of years; chances are you learned all there is to know within the first fifty, if not sooner.


Well, seeing as how know one has lived that long, or has had the mental improvements that a Space Marines has, no one really knows. But, lets be honest...there's always more to learn and creative ways to do things.



> When the space marines are percieved as a threat, their lack of numbers will probably be used against them. I wouldn't be surprised if we start using bizare tactics like slamming trucks or tanks into them, bombarding them from off shore, or any number of other seemingly stupid endeavors. Even if the force of a truck or a missile isn't enough to hurt them, the inevitable concussive force of being slammed against the ground or a wall will begin to add up. And if one of them falls and we collect their body, the scientific study on the power armor will eventually culminate with weapons that can effectively combat them.


Off shore? With what? The ships that are gonna get blown outta the water by low-orbit bombardment? Vehicles? The ones that they'll be able to destroy with 41st millenium rockets? Or the ones we would run out of fuel for when low-orbit and lighting assaults cripple our fuel supplies? And you'd have to hit the Space Marine with the tanks and trucks any way. Assuming they don't shoot you before you do, they're not simply gonna stand their and let you hit them. As for studying power armour and creating weapons to combat them. Again, I bring up the fact that most facilities capable of such actions would be destroyed. 

Congragulations Space Marines take over earth! :victory:

And then lose it eventually do to attrition... Yay...


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

if you manage to get a bolter of a dead marine then you can use that(the recoil could kill you but its the price you pay for trying to use a .75 cal gun that shoots a rocket propelled miniature nuclear warhead), get a devastator heavy weapon say a lascannon and then more dead marines.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Why is almost everyone deviating from the topic and rambling about how Space Marines, coupled with their war machines and tech could take over the world when the topic clearly states Earth vs '100 Marines'.

In any case, I am glad there are others who think things logically and don't foam at the mouth going 'SpAcE muRinEs wIll WWiN peW pEW PanDa lAZuR beAms!'. 

The Space Marine armor is made of a material called ceramite/adamantium (fictional metals obviously based on real life metal alloys like steel/titanium which we know all about regarding how much physical pressure they can endure), which I don't believe has been described in detail as to it's manufacturing process, minerals/ores used, forging techniques, and the amount of pressure(or whatever unit of measurement is used to gauge the durability of metal it can endure while remaining intact). 

So basically their power armor is nothing more than a glorified suit of metal armor with a HUD and other advanced features, the armor rating is nothing so strong as to being able to resist .50+ caliber weapons we use today especially since the laws of physics would dictate that such powerful bullet velocities, especially if fired rapidly and over the same spot repeatedly, would eventually crumble the metal no matter how strong.

Terminator armor is a different issue, but we're not talking about Terminator squads and beyond like so many of you seem to be doing for some reason.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Holy Shister! I thought this thread is dead after almost everyone concluded that a Chapter with Ship Support could crush our defenses utterly. 100 man Company. No way in hell. Our Arm forces are more than enough to kill 100 Man Company.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Atsuno11 said:


> That is assuming that a .50 cal round has enough punch to penetrate power armour. Were talking about an armour designed 39,000 years in the future, so maybe the armour is capable of stopping our 2nd millenium weapons.


What people seem to be forgetting or overlooking is the fact that the Imperium in its current state, technologically wise is the equivalent of what we have today or '2nd millenium' tech with a few exceptions (space/warm travel, robots, genetically enhanced warriors, etc.)


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

> Well, seeing as how know one has lived that long, or has had the mental improvements that a Space Marines has, no one really knows. But, lets be honest...there's always more to learn and creative ways to do things.


But there isn't. One person with one gun can only employ so many tactics against an army. It doesn't matter how intelligent you are, your options are extremely limited. Things like an advantageous location, enemy weakpoints, the quick collection of intel, and a few other calculations are all you've got, and they certainly don't take hundreds of years or an incomprehensible intellect to figure out.





> Off shore? With what? The ships that are gonna get blown outta the water by low-orbit bombardment? Vehicles? The ones that they'll be able to destroy with 41st millenium rockets? Or the ones we would run out of fuel for when low-orbit and lighting assaults cripple our fuel supplies? And you'd have to hit the Space Marine with the tanks and trucks any way. Assuming they don't shoot you before you do, they're not simply gonna stand their and let you hit them. As for studying power armour and creating weapons to combat them. Again, I bring up the fact that most facilities capable of such actions would be destroyed.
> 
> Congragulations Space Marines take over earth! :victory:
> 
> And then lose it eventually do to attrition... Yay...


You misread the point of this topic. It said in the very first post that we're talking 100 space marines versus 2010 Earth. Orbital bombardment isn't an option. The imperium's tech is vastly superior to ours; if they wanted to bomb the hell out of us there's nothing stopping them. That's why the topic has limited them. 100 Space Marines vs. 2010 Earth. No missiles. No reinforcements. No divine intervention of the Emperor. Just the space marines and their weaponry.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Actually, the first post says a battle company of space marines, it goes on to specify what kind of battle company, one consisting of one hundred space marines, because some chapters have companies consisting of more than one hundred space marines per company. (Such as the Space Wolves, Salamanders, and Black Templars)


Now, if you go and search for information regarding the disposition of a codex astartes standard battle company (one consisting of one hundred space marines) then heres what those space marines have to work with: Six tactical squads, two assault squads, two devestator squads, a number of rhino and razorback transports, dreadnoughts and assorted armour. A battle company may often number above one hundred marines, because it can have elements of the first company in it as well as scouts of the tenth company. For the sake of things though best to leave elements of the first and tenth company out of this.



Me personally, I think a single battle company would be able to defeat us as we are. In space they are next to, if not completely, impossible to be touched. Space marines excel in finding vital targets and striking them, creating confusion, and fighting on their terms, not their opponents. 

I mean these are space marines, they aren't just your very well trained soldier who is effectively immortal all things considered. This is a superhuman, brain altered to keep the body going without the need for sleep (shutting down a little to restore it, but leaving more than enough active to function completely), eyes improved to see in the dark, a second eyelid that allows them to see as normal in hostile environments, ears improved, muscles and bones enhanced, metabolism altered, third lung to breath in bad environments, kidney designed to filter out all but the most potent of alien poisons, blood that clots almost instantly with air contact, and a second heart to name but a few of the things a space marine has.

Then you have power armour, a combination of ceramite and some adamantium. Now ceramite, its not the most powerful of armours by any means, it being a ceramic alloy, but it does offer great protection from heat and energy. Adamantium on the other hand, in every form its ever brought up in the material is either indestructible or nigh on indestructible. Adamantium is impenetrable to most common weapons and that includes a great many firearms of both the small and large variety.


However thats all just a few things about space marines themselves, power armour, and where they would be located. None of what I've said above speaks of their tactics, their weapons, organization when actually attacking. 

So again, me personally, I think the space marines could beat us regardless of our numbers. They aren't human, they don't fight us on our terms, they do not fight one target as one giant unit (they would strike multiple targets without warning and leave us, the world, reeling before an effective response could be made), and they can do more than just attack our military forces. Many military units can tell the devastation that can be inflicted by the use of psychological warfare and panic from the masses. Hell even pitting countries against each other (because who says the codex does not say that if an entire world is your enemy that you must announce yourself and go in guns blazing. What about using one group against another, something that some countries would do with the right backing.)


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## Lykoside (Jul 13, 2009)

20 custodes could take earth before brunch.Easy. I'm with the sm cuz I'd side with them and work on the inside xP


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

This thread is now about how twenty steroid taking, muscle bulging squirrels whose intellects have been raised to match that of a chimpanzee's can take on a polar bear missing one hind leg.

My money's on the polar bear.


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

I see people saying 'this gun could take down an Astartes' but guess what... that requires that they even give us the chance to shoot at them. They wouldn't fight by our rules or tactics, why should they? They would strike and move before any force could be gathered against them and we would never get an accurate body count on them because they would never _let_ us. 

This isn't just fanboyisum (fangirlisum in my case), i'm basing my arguments on situations that have happened and our reactions to them. Take 9-11 for example- the US _shut down_... people hid at home glued to the broadcasts in shock. Now, imagine that happened all over the globe within hours time... The mass fear factor alone would add to the issues faced by the military. 

The Ultramarines would know just where and how to hit us to have the largest scale effect.Then they would take out all the satellites, smashing coms into disarray after they had sowed the seeds of panic. Something that we would be completely helpless to stop. Then, pin-point strikes would hit key locations with lightning attacks. They would take out the leadership (astartes tend to go for the head) leaving the rest in a state of confusion.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Euphrati said:


> I see people saying 'this gun could take down an *Eldar *but guess what... that requires that they even give us the chance to shoot at them. They wouldn't fight by our rules or tactics, why should they? They would strike and move before any force could be gathered against them and we would never get an accurate body count on them because they would never _let_ us.


Fixed that for you.



Euphrati said:


> This isn't just fanboyisum (fangirlisum in my case), i'm basing my arguments on situations that have happened and our reactions to them. Take 9-11 for example- the US _shut down_... people hid at home glued to the broadcasts in shock. Now, imagine that happened all over the globe within hours time... The mass fear factor alone would add to the issues faced by the military.


The US shut down, not the world. And to be more precise, only NY was really shut down, not all of America. 

People were glued to the TV not out of fear but mostly to gather information for the biggest fear of man is the fear of the unknown.



Euphrati said:


> The Ultramarines would know just where and how to hit us to have the largest scale effect.Then they would take out all the satellites, smashing coms into disarray after they had sowed the seeds of panic. Something that we would be completely helpless to stop. Then, pin-point strikes would hit key locations with lightning attacks. They would take out the leadership (astartes tend to go for the head) leaving the rest in a state of confusion.



You make it seem like they would think up tactics that in our day and age couldn't possibly fathom.

They're just genetically huge soldiers with 'advanced' weapons and power armor with faster reflexes and a brain that can cope with the vigor of war and react to real time battle situations more efficiently due to the psychotherapy they undergo.

Like one of the posters said, simply because they're from the future and live for a long time does not mean they have an infinite number of strategies they could use simply as a result of their long time in battle because there's only so much one can do with a gun and a suit of armor.


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

one hundred space marines no matter how organized would not be able to take out enough major buildings/people to put the whole world in shock, they would need more man power. a rhino/razor back is just a tank which means it still can't move that fast, a thunder hawk would be to large to access a lot of places and a drop pod is a one way vehicle, they would not be able to out maneuver a military force that is over 10 times the size, eventually the military would catch them but im not saying the space marines wouldn't take down a lot of soldiers but it comes down to the numbers no matter how well armed you may be numbers always have a better chance.


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

I will say this very nicely Malus Darkblade, taking quotes from people and editing them is Very rude and I would ask you never to do that again.

They would strike from orbit with lances/cannons before they ever set foot on the ground.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Euphrati said:


> I will say this very nicely Malus Darkblade, taking quotes from people and editing them is very rude and I would ask you never to do that again.


Fixed a grammatical mistake of yours. You capitalized the v in Very.

Oh wait....


Yeah you need to chill, I've been taking part in many forums and I've never seen someone overreact to something you see a lot of forum members do.



Euphrati said:


> They would strike from orbit with lances/cannons before they ever set foot on the ground.


I was not aware, Euphrati of South Carolina, USA, that Space Marines came equipped with lances and cannons somewhere within their massive bodies that function in high altitudes when they magically parachute from the sky.

lAzuR maRinEs!


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

This isn't just fanboyisum (fangirlisum in my case), i'm basing my arguments on situations that have happened and our reactions to them. Take 9-11 for example- the US _shut down_... people hid at home glued to the broadcasts in shock. Now, imagine that happened all over the globe within hours time... The mass fear factor alone would add to the issues faced by the military.


I did not shut down that day and I certainly did not hide in my house. I washed my grandfathers truck that day because it was his birthday. As far as bolter's go ... they are rocket propelled bolts. These weapons were tried in Viet Nam. They had a hell of a punch at about 75 yards, but if you put your palm over the barrel the bolt would not leave the barrel. Look it up if you don't trust what I say. Try that with a .17 cal ... your wife will be opening your ketchup bottle for the rest of your life. A FULL legion could do it but not 100 marines.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Perhaps, Malus Darkblade, you should heed your own advice and chill out yourself. Intentionally misquoting someone through a printed form, even to try and be funny when your not, is known as libel, a form of slander and plagerism.

It doesn't matter what other people on other forums do; they are not here and those forums aren't Heresy. 


Also, trying to bait members into getting into a little flame squabble with you, no you do yourself a favour and stay away from this thread before you 'accidentally' post something that will get you in a lot of trouble.



And this is a warning for everyone; keep it calm and keep it cool. Theres nothing wrong with good debating and disagreeing, but if you do disagree then back up why you do with support and 'fact' to back up your own point. There is no need for name calling and trying, rather badly, to be funny.

If people are unable or unwilling to play nice with each other than theres going to be no point for this to remain open.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Talthewicked said:


> This isn't just fanboyisum (fangirlisum in my case), i'm basing my arguments on situations that have happened and our reactions to them. Take 9-11 for example- the US _shut down_... people hid at home glued to the broadcasts in shock. Now, imagine that happened all over the globe within hours time... The mass fear factor alone would add to the issues faced by the military.
> 
> 
> I did not shut down that day and I certainly did not hide in my house. I washed my grandfathers truck that day because it was his birthday. As far as bolter's go ... they are rocket propelled bolts. These weapons were tried in Viet Nam. They had a hell of a punch at about 75 yards, but if you put your palm over the barrel the bolt would not leave the barrel. Look it up if you don't trust what I say. Try that with a .17 cal ... your wife will be opening your ketchup bottle for the rest of your life. A FULL legion could do it but not 100 marines.



I'm trying to find a video showcasing the power of the .17 cal, nothing yet other than ******** shooting rabbits : /


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> I'm trying to find a video showcasing the power of the .17 cal, nothing yet other than ******** shooting rabbits : /


That should be enough to convince you that it would be a bad idea to put your palm over the muzzle of a "gun". A bolter is a totally different thing. What I am trying to convey is simply this ... we are massive giants to ants. We can step on them and crush the very life out of them. If you, as a human, were thrown into a massive pit filled with over 6 billion ants you are stronger than they are and have more protection, but you will be overcome by sheer numbers. it is inevitable. Like I said 100 marines, not a chance, a full legion,not a chance for us.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Thats assuming they always go in guns blazing against a fighting force. Remember that unlike the ants in your example, not all six billion of the people the one hundred marines would be pitted against are armed or fighters, a very small portion of that number actually are.

Adding to that, marines, especially the Ultramarines, are smart; they make use of a very wide array of tactics and strategies. Not all of those are ones that require them to engage in direct fighting, its often more efficient for you to have another fight in your place. Why waste your power and energy when you can waste someone else's and weaken both the person your using and your immediate enemy?


Its far from hard to believe that if a battle company showed up and it was us vs them, one or several countries would try to side with them in the hopes of being able to take over in the aftermath. Space marines are anything but stupid, so its no stretch to imagine that they would use these 'allies' allow them to fight and deplete their resources and manpower and some of the resources and manpower of the 'enemy'. Their foes, all of them, get weakened without the marines ever having to use any of their own forces; but of course they would also be acting even as they get countries to fight each other. In the end, with enemies defeated and false allies weakened, it becomes easier for marines to wipe out those fake allies.


We are a world divided, it is not hard to play on this division, especially not for one of the more renowned chapters of the space marines like the Ultramarines.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

But that is exactly the thing that would force humanity together. It is like a family. We all have to live together here. I don't like some of the people that live near me ... but let some outsider from say China show up and start beating the hell out of the town drunk for no reason. I will step in and put a stop to it. I can beat the hell out of him because the little bastard has stole stuff from me ... but he is still my cousin and therefore only relatives have the right to do that. Outsiders can have a very powerful influence on peoples reactions to things. The whole point of it was that if 100 space marines LANDED on earth could they take it over. I say no. 100 marines would kill people, yes, but they could not take over Earth. Too many savages like myself in the world.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Talthewicked said:


> Too many savages like myself in the world.


Remember its a notion like that, that 'savages' like yourself, as you decided to put it, can survive or maybe even win the day simply because you won't lie down and die, or will band together and fight, that caused the little spot of trouble in the orks vs earth thread.

Just because you might be willing to take up arms against an outside force does not mean you will win. All it may mean is you have enough courage or lack of intelligence to fight.


As for what the point of this thread is, lets take a look at the first post. With that one we can see exactly what the point of this thread is.



> So the question is. If a Space Marine chapter, for the sake of argument lets say Ultramarines. If they sent one battle company and not the 1st (100 Marines) to earth to take it, would they win? Now I understand that this planet might not be of any interest to them, and the SM and us aren't even in the same time period, but this is just for fun. Also lets say for the sake of interesting conversation that they want this world for recruitment, so orbital bombardment is not an option.


You'll notice that the above, which is a copy/paste of the first post, says nothing about the battle company landing on the planet. Simply says they were sent here, and for them the overall goal is to possibly make earth into a recruitment world. That would bring all validity back to any arguement or point that has been made in regards to space marines and the use/being in a space fairing vessel.

Had the OP actually said the marines had landed, then your pointing that out Tal, that would have invalidated those points. (Which would have been big, because thats one way a good debate counters points; by showing that they are not applicable.)



Also, in regards to us coming together in the face of an outside force. It would happen, and has happened, when that outside force will likely be coming after everyone. However if there is a chance that a country can ally with the outsiders and their superior weapons and gear and in the end be left in charge, then more often than not its something that will be done and its something that can be done with multiple countries. All you have to do is trick them with promises that do not have to be kept, because there is no need to uphold your word to someone so easily willing to toss aside loyalty. Or maybe in the end they don't have to be defeated as well; if the goal is for a recruitment world then having a group you know you can trust is all the better.

As I said before, we are a world divided; given the chance there are countries that will not play ball, even powerful nations will, in the end, sell others out if it means stand against an enemy and lose many of your own, or stand with them and lose far less.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

There is roughly 57 million square miles of land on earth, that’s 570 thousand square miles per marine. With only 100 marines the sheer scale of the ground that would have to be covered along with logistical nightmare that would come along with that is simply insurmountable for a force of 100 marines, even superhuman marines. If you forget about the land required to cover the opposition would be massive. In the US alone I believe there are around 59 million males alone that are fit for military service, if the US has that kind of numbers imagine what China and India could field if necessary. They would have to contend with thousands upon thousands of tanks, aircraft and all manner of armored vehicles. Now that’s only conventional weaponry, it’s not counting nuclear weapons which I believe is something around the number of 21 thousand. In short it doesn’t matter how smart or strong those 100 men are they would stand no chance.


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## Atsuno11 (Jul 21, 2008)

Orbital Bombardment. Its fun having tanks with no gas to run, or even facilities to make them. The Space Marines aren't simply gonna attack. They are going to obliterate factories and such. We would lose the ability to make them.


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

And if you had read the OP, you would know that Orbital Bombardment is out of the equation.

We still have many millions of armed men and vehicles, a lot of which are on standby. We also cannot discount our special forces, who are very very skilled warriors, and have been trained to take out difficult targets. With the right equipment, I'm sure they would take down squads of Marines without too much hassle. I have to go now, so this isnt a huge input, but I shall return later and elaborate.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

gen.ahab said:


> In short it doesn’t matter how smart or strong those 100 men are they would stand no chance.


But why? In the end you don't have to cover every inch of land, we don't have people on this world packed everywhere. (I can look outside of my house right now and see unoccupied land stretching on for several miles.)


Marines do not need to take and hold land, all they have to do is take it away and leave. Should you decide to reclaim that location that means that to support the same places you have to thin your own forces. Have this done over enough weaker locations and your going to abandon them for better ones; better ones which may not have to be taken out because in the end the forces there cannot come to the aid of others, or else their location becomes weakened.

All of a military's numbers can mean nothing if they cannot take the fight to the enemy, if they have to spend more manpower to defend locations or continue to defend ones that have been taken out.


In regards to number of males applicable for service in the US, thats assuming all of those people were conscripted into the armed forces correct? That would require a conscription bill being passed and all of those people actually fighting and not buying their way out or deserting to another country where they are not being conscripted.

I don't know about you, but being forced to fight for a country when I won't/can't volunteer to do it would definitely see me leaving my home behind; and thats something I currently would never even dream of doing.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

A force of 100 marines would have maybe 1 or 2 strike cruisers at most. The amount of incoming fire would be massive, even with advanced shields, they could never hold. Also, strategic reserves were created just for that reason. Simply taking out the factories would not stop the tanks from moving. It’s a simple fact, 100 marines simply could not do it. They could cause some damage, but not win.


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## Atsuno11 (Jul 21, 2008)

Fire...on the Cruisers? Because we have weapons capable of attacking heavily armoured warships in orbit. Because we have to worry about that... 

And strategic reserves can be destroyed from orbit just like everything else. 

The Space Marines take on planets with one hundred men all the time. Our planet is no different from any other.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Also, where would you run? It would be global. All countries would do it and under such a threat a bill might not even be required. An Ultramarine is simply a very large, very blue very easily spotted target. I'm not saying marines aren’t good but I am saying they aren’t that good.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Actually yes we can. We have the capability to land a missile on a target the size of a basketball in orbit, we have actually done it. Ever hear of an ICBM? They couldn't cope with the assault that would be launched.


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## Atsuno11 (Jul 21, 2008)

Actually, no. Not gonna lie. However, we still have the capabilites to OBLITERATE the launch sites from orbits without blinking. Your overestimating our technology compared to theirs and we also raise the point that not enough countries have the cababilities, and those that do might be capable of being manipulated by the Space Marines.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

The nuclear arsenal or the US and Russia alone accounts for 20500 of those weapons. Most of those installations are deep underground and some are even below the sea. Even if we were going up against the ultramarines best, the 2nd company, We would only be up against 6 tactical squads, 2 assault squads, 2 devastator squads and 2 dreadnoughts. How could anyone be expected to conquer an entire planet with such few men? It couldn't be done. I doubt any major country would yield, maybe a few smaller countries but nothing major. I doubt they would be so foolish. If the entire chapter were to become involved we would be in some major trouble but one company could be managed.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

I Personally think the decisive factor will be this: SMs are hampered by their comparative lack of understanding about their own technology. They Pray that it works ect ect.

We don't. Most of us understand how nukes work (in theory), Most of us know how combustion engines work ect. All it would take is two or three marines to fall and for us to recover their bodies and we would reverse engineer the tech quicker then an emo cuts themselves.

Also on the issue of tactical strikes: Many nations essential facilities are located deep underground. Orbital strikes would probably not even hit them (I'm assuming that O.Strikes are weaker then nukes because nukes are only used during extreme measures like exterminatus IIRC) so they would have to teleport into said bunkers funneling them to their death.

As has been said before 100 marines just couldn't do it. They are to few even for tactical strikes. Because once one was done the unaffected countries would relocate to the Bunkers.


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## Tha Tall One (Aug 16, 2008)

If they need to exterminate all humans, they'd need roughly 60.000.000 bolts. each. I don't think they have enough ammunition to do much. Plus their shining suits of armor aren't very camouflative. I'm afraid they would severely lose a war of attrition.
With 100 men it would be impossible to take over an entire planet. If you are standing on one side, you can't control the other half.

On the other hand, I think it will be really hard to drop a nuclear missile on top of a moving squad of 100 (super)men.
And our heavy stubbers are still just stubbers


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> The nuclear arsenal or the US and Russia alone accounts for 20500 of those weapons. Most of those installations are deep underground and some are even below the sea. Even if we were going up against the ultramarines best, the 2nd company, We would only be up against 6 tactical squads, 2 assault squads, 2 devastator squads and 2 dreadnoughts. How could anyone be expected to conquer an entire planet with such few men? It couldn't be done. I doubt any major country would yield, maybe a few smaller countries but nothing major. I doubt they would be so foolish. If the entire chapter were to become involved we would be in some major trouble but one company could be managed.


Finally, someone who gets it. Thank you. Now as far as nuclear armarments go ... I happen to have a little bit of knowledge in this field. At the hiehgt of the cold war Russia had enough nukes to exterminate every living thing on the planet 2 times over, now this goes to include virus and bacteria. We (the U.S.) have enough nuclear armarments to kill all living things 100 times over. Now that is just our ICBM for the mutually assured destruction. In the mid 80's we created MERV missiles that, with one missle, could take out 16 cities. And in all honesty if you look at the game it is simply like this: Imp Guard are just normal men like we are now. One squad is 25 men. One squad of Imp Guard can kill one Space Marine. They are super-human but they are human none the less.


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## Sytus (Aug 27, 2009)

If the marines were sent on some sort of specialised mission eg: Destroy a certain location, take out a major word leader, they would succeed. But against a planet? No.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Srsly. If Space Marines would be so weak as most of you guys say, the Imperium Of Man would fall in a year, or maybe even faster. 

The Space Marines would beat us easily. They would first destroy our military bases, satellites and space stations. They would kill out leaders, jam communications and disable weapon and vehicle factories. Within 24 hours the planet would be in chaos. Space Marines would also easily know how to launch our own nukes against our self. Dont believe me? Have you ever heard of the Omophagea? 

"This implant allows a Space Marine to 'learn by eating'. It is situated in the spinal cord but is actually part of the brain. Four nerve bundles are implanted connecting the spine and the stomach wall. Able to 'read' or absorb genetic material consumed by the marine, the omophagea transmits the gained information to the Marine's brain as a set of memories or experiences"

In that way they would learn a lot. They could kill the highest ranking military leaders in a country, and they would right away know about all the tactically important locations, hidden bunkers, airfields, military bases, nuclear submarines and that kind of things. 

For a Space Marine it would be a damn easy thing to take out a submarine. And now someone says "Yeah, but the subs are in the water! The Space Marines would drown themselves!". Have you heard about the Multi-lung? It allows Space Marines to breath in the *water*. They would just jump into the water and blow the submarines apart with their superior weaponry. 

They could in fact use everything we know against us. They would not have to ask questions, they would just take them from us. And they can survive wounds that would kill normal men several time over. What would our snipers with their 50.cal auto snipers say when their bullets jump of the foes armor? 

Now someone of you might ask "Wtf? The SEALs, Spetsnaz and the SAS would easily kill squads of marines!". Personally I am a *HUGE* fan of the SAS. But I dont go as far as believing that they would be capable of easily killing Space Marines. 

No offense, but we would be screwed. There is nothing to say about that.

(And btw, USA has not got weaponry to kill everything on the world a 100 times over, in fact, they have not got a lot more than Russia. )


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

Doelago said:


> (And btw, USA has not got weaponry to kill everything on the world a 100 times over, in fact, they have not got a lot more than Russia. )


In this you are wrong. I am actually former Military Intellignece ... make jokes here, go ahead you know you want to. But we still have the most nukes on the planet, hands down. And they could not turn our nukes against us as there are protocols that must be followed and keyed in at specific intervals. And authorization could only come from the Commander in Chief or VP if the CiC is installed in a bunker and or MIA. Have no doubts about it ... if America falls we are going to take everyone with us.


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## LordLucan (Dec 9, 2009)

Space Marines don't conquer worlds. They take out enemy military assets quickly and decisively. Guard conquer.

Oh yes, and the space marines still have space superiority. So that's all our satellites gone, that's all our major cities slagged (because our cities aren't armoured or shielded against multiple megatonne bombardments).

Also, our nukes are truly pathetic in comparison to naval weaponry in 40K. 40K ships are DESIGNED to regularly take hundreds upon hundreds of megatonne impacts from munitions that can cover massive distances far more swiftly than our missiles could manage. That's what weapon batteries are in BFG. Their torpedoes are tower-block sized guided missiles, even more explosive than the weapon batteries.

Our nuclear weapons, if they can indeed strike space targets (not seen anything like that in action so I'm less convinced by that) are slow and puny in comparison. A space marine strike cruiser is void-shielded, armoured with dozens of metres of highly advanced Imperial armour, which can take vast explosions equal to and greater than our current nukes. Also, each cruiser has hundreds of highly efficient point defence turrets, which would shoot down many of the nukes before they even arrive.

Oh, and if it realy feels in danger, said cruiser can accelerate up to 0.7c.

If, by some miracle, we manage to destroy the space marines and cripple the cruiser, the captain could choose to destroy our entire world with cyclonic torpedoes. Or, if they don't have any of those world-enders, they can end the world in a rather more horrible way: engage warp engines while in orbit with earth. Cue a warp-based apocalypse, which would destroy both the cruiser, and destroy our world in a tide of daemons and endless waves of gore.

Our planet is so small fry, it isn't even a contest.


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

> But we still have the most nukes on the planet, hands down.


Yes Talthewicked is right, America does have more nukes than russia but i think the estimate is between 100-500 more

And many people are posting that the 100 marines wont be able to take over the world because its too big, but i think they quite smart to understand that so i think they would try and destroy order into chaos, for instance destroying the pentigon and washington would severly weaken America... so ye if they destroyed all significant military bases/buildings and killed the majority of leaders they would take over earth

plus the SAS, Spetznaz and Seals wouldnt be able to take out a company of marines, its taken around 100,000 american soldiers to fight the war in afghanistan and yet they are losing


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

They would not win. I'm Inclined to believe that they aren't that effective. A strike cruiser is only one target they would simply overload their tracking systems. They arn't that good. Thousands of missiles traveling at insane velocities would land and with that kind of power it would do an increadable amount of damage to the ship. It wouldn't be capable of withstanding that kind of fire power. And space marines are nothing to laugh at but they would be incabable of dealing with the amount of fire they would face.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

In _Legion_, a human cracks open a helmet with his bare fists. I can't remember if it was power armour but that's still near enough.

Then, it says in *insert name here*, which is canon, that a Marine is worth around _20_ Guardsmen, not 1000. We as humans are similar to the Imperial Guard, as humans, and so we would pretty much KICK ASS. Sure we don't have las_guns_, but we do have laser weaponry. We also have a heat microwave gun.

A Barret 50. Cal could easily blow a hole in a marine if you got him in the right place.

Midnight


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

You cannot compare the war in Afghanistan to this at ALL. TOTALLY different kind of warfare. And I'm sure Special Forces could elminate Marines. They have the best equipment and the most intense training of any military unit on the planet. I never said they could take on a company, but a squad, sure. Well placed explosives and rounds will drop a Marine. They may be good, but stealth still works against them.

Doelago, you give far too much credit to the Space Marines and their armour and weaponry. Sure, they may seem to be that epic, but when a skilled opponent comes up against them, they can lose. Nothing beats a well placed knife. So to say a bullet couldnt kill a Space Marine is a little far fetched. We have already discussed that a .50cal would probably penetrate or atleats damage a Space Marine, considering the bullet is travelling faster than a .75 calibre Bolt and hitting with a smaller point. It is an ANTI-MATERIAL round, designed to go through armour and other solid objects.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

You can't compare fighting a war with insurgents to fighting space marines for one and second we arn't losing, but that a different story.:grin:


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

k lol, i apoligize but I used the afghanistan war in the wrong way, i meant that earth 2010 is still constantly haveing wars against each other and ordinary humans still sometimes have difficulty defeating another army of oridinary people, yes the warfare is different... but it still kinda shows how some large well equiped armies sometimes are unable to destroy small poor armies..

and about if america is losing, i have my views you have yours :grin:


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Farrus, fair enough. lol


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

But also that’s merely because of the type of warfare. In a battle they would be wiped out. They merely do not have the numerical count to succeed.


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## Shacklock (Dec 15, 2009)

Ferrus Manus said:


> k lol, i apoligize but I used the afghanistan war in the wrong way, i meant that earth 2010 is still constantly haveing wars against each other and ordinary humans still sometimes have difficulty defeating another army of oridinary people, yes the warfare is different... but it still kinda shows how some large well equiped armies sometimes are unable to destroy small poor armies..
> 
> and about if america is losing, i have my views you have yours :grin:


What army? Its a combination of armies against an insurgency, complete and utterly a different matter. Regardless the issue there is poor leadership and overall tactical/policy ineptitude on the large armies side. 

Anywho, Space Marines would win if they launched concise rapid strikes at key points and bring us to our knees in a matter of hours (Before orders can be given/troops deployed in the homelands.) The longer it took them the more difficult the task would become. After all, its not -that- hard to kill a Space Marine, provided you have the situation stacked in yur favour. Hyper-attrition war for them, lol.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Shacklock, they don't require orders they have contingency protocols that would go into action the moment they attacked. Countries are meant to be hydras, eliminate one head and more replace it.


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## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

IF they want this world for Recrutement, then they wouldn't attack... they would land Peacefully and scout us out... not launch a massive planitary invasion... not the way to make friends... and people will not willing become Space Marines if they have just blasted there homes to dust....

Point Being... No one would be fighting the Other!!! the Ultramarines would come in peace to observe us to see if we would be usable for Recrutement.... end of discussion.


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## Shacklock (Dec 15, 2009)

Helvron said:


> IF they want this world for Recrutement, then they wouldn't attack... they would land Peacefully and scout us out... not launch a massive planitary invasion... not the way to make friends... and people will not willing become Space Marines if they have just blasted there homes to dust....
> 
> Point Being... No one would be fighting the Other!!! the Ultramarines would come in peace to observe us to see if we would be usable for Recrutement.... end of discussion.


Tad bit naive  Space Marines really arent that easy to reason with, most books in the Horus Heresy reflect this nicely. For a start we have AI, somewhat liberal open minded ran countries and our own religions, although I immagine God/Allah could be converted into the Emperor quite easily with a little rejigging.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Shacklock said:


> Tad bit naive  Space Marines really arent that easy to reason with, most books in the Horus Heresy reflect this nicely. For a start we have AI, somewhat liberal open minded ran countries and our own religions, although I immagine God/Allah could be converted into the Emperor quite easily with a little rejigging.


Christianity still exists in the Imperium, a short story talked about that and I recall another one where the members were being framed as terrorists.


The Imperium was supposed to be religion free, and it supposedly was when the emperor was walking around but upon his imprisonment to the throne, desperation plus corruption led to a religious cult forming around him.

The emperor basically was enforcing an athiest/communist regime because he felt that religion was hindering mankind from expanding and causing too many internal wars despite the fact that during the age of technology man was doing much better than during the emperor's great crusade technology and lifestyle wise and I don't think they stopped believing in religion.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

That's off topic. The thread is who would win the fight, the answer being 2010 earth. :biggrin:


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Malus Darkblade said:


> The emperor basically was enforcing an athiest/communist regime because he felt that religion was hindering mankind from expanding and causing too many internal wars despite the fact that during the age of technology man was doing much better than during the emperor's great crusade technology and lifestyle wise and I don't think they stopped believing in religion.


Actually, the Emperor enforced a disposal of religion to rob chaos of power; the gods rely on faith and religion to a fair degree and with that aspect taken away they lose power. I believe Child-of-the-Emperor, who hangs around in the 40k fluff section more often than not, can explain it far better and in much more detail as well.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

darkreever said:


> Actually, the Emperor enforced a disposal of religion to rob chaos of power; the gods rely on faith and religion to a fair degree and with that aspect taken away they lose power. .


And yet here we have trillions upon trillions of people worshiping the emperor, and the chaos powers haven't benefited as a result of their worshiping of the emperor but rather the worship of the chaos cultists. The worship of the emperor is the only thing keeping the Imperium together and on numerous occasions have repelled chaos daemons by mere mention of certain litanies and sayings revolved around the worship of the emperor, like the cross to vampires.

"By the time of the Warhammer 40,000 universe's 'current' setting in the late 41st millennium, the Emperor's original goals, intentions and lifetime have long passed into legend, and he is worshipped as a god by the vast majority of humanity (*despite his strong atheism and belief in science expressed during his lifetime*)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperium_(Warhammer_40,000)

He saw the tragedies religeon brought upon the world since he has lived through many centuries of human history and so he sought to abolish the concept, to rid humanity of 'superstitions' that made them fear the dark,etc. once he rose to power, especially since during the Age of Strife when humanity fell into a time of superstition with aliens raiding them and the majority not remembering humanity's past. It would be a perfect time to take the reigns of leadership over humanity especially since they forgot their past and glories and the emperor was the only being alive to remember.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Remember to take wiki articles with a grain of salt, as well as look at where the information is coming from. The reference material for that articles is from 2003 and 2004; things have been altered and added in the last six years.

Read through the Heresy collection, the collected visions ones; they are more recent, official, and include what has since been changed. That article might have some truth to it, but theres also the likely potential of it being outdated.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

darkreever said:


> Remember to take wiki articles with a grain of salt, as well as look at where the information is coming from. The reference material for that articles is from 2003 and 2004; things have been altered and added in the last six years.
> 
> Read through the Heresy collection, the collected visions ones; they are more recent, official, and include what has since been changed. That article might have some truth to it, but theres also the likely potential of it being outdated.


You take wiki articles with a grain of salt when they mention very specific details, not something as general as the emperor's wishes for humanity.

And by that context, nothing is canon because it is subject to change. 

Certain things have changed over the years obviously but most things have remained where they are otherwise WH40K would have no sensible plot.


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## LordLucan (Dec 9, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> They would not win.


You say.

I'm Inclined to believe that they aren't that effective.



> A strike cruiser is only one target they would simply overload their tracking systems.


So? 2010 earth only has nuclear weapons. The Imperial navy uses weaponry far more powerful than this. 

They arn't that good. 



> Thousands of missiles traveling at insane velocities would land and with that kind of power it would do an increadable amount of damage to the ship.


Yet, when SM cruisers are normally struck by thousands of missiles, railguns and vast cannons launching megatonne level firepower in the 40K fluff, they are not usually destroyed. And the Imperium has bigger and badder weapons than us.



> It wouldn't be capable of withstanding that kind of fire power.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

Shacklock said:


> Tad bit naive  Space Marines really arent that easy to reason with, most books in the Horus Heresy reflect this nicely. For a start we have AI, somewhat liberal open minded ran countries and our own religions, although I immagine God/Allah could be converted into the Emperor quite easily with a little rejigging.



Ultra Marines are quiet civil... so yes they would in the most likely event of them traveling here would come in Peace not bolters blazing cutting down anyone who they came across. he said they have come here to recrute so i doubt they would be so willing to attack there potential Recrutes. yes most space marines use hard headed, heavy handed tactics when it comes to battle and Politics, but i know that the Imperium would not invade a lost planet... they would try to bring it back into the fold, and should that fail then launch an invasion.

and Lord Lucan, a Missiles target can be changed.. oh yeah and first inorder to destroy our silos they need to find them. and GEN.AHAB didn't mean a allout foot slogging fight against Space marines with our forces, rather the power they could not withstand would be the nuclear kind if they land they die.... oh and per rules of the Senario the Company of SM's are not going to use Orbital bombardment so yes if they played by the rules 2010(not use to typeing 2010 yet) earth would win.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Ok back on topic guys! lol no more talk about comparing real life and 40k religions because for cripes sakes its not that interesting and slightly boring with all that Theology out in the open. Were here for the killing and shooting and downright apocalyptic battles of mass mayhem that make it all fun! haha.

And about the Topic: I think there have been several good arguements expressed in favor of both sides and both have good points and i would also like to contribute to discussion with my thoughts. (If my opinion is held in bad taste, then please go ahead and correct me or show me how i am wrong about what i say) ^_-. 

Ok. recap of Topic situation: Modern day World of 2010 vs Space Marines ( Host says Ultramarines)

This is the creator of threads post: (So the question is. If a Space Marine chapter, for the sake of argument lets say Ultramarines. If they sent one battle company and not the 1st (100 Marines) to earth to take it, would they win? Now I understand that this planet might not be of any interest to them, and the SM and us aren't even in the same time period, but this is just for fun. Also lets say for the sake of interesting conversation that they want this world for recruitment, so orbital bombardment is not an option.)

Situation: 100 Spacemarines Battle Company have come to take over Earth and turn it into a recruiting world and they cannot Orbital Bombard and are against the Modern world of 2010. (Sorry for the Reiteration) 

I believe the Spacemarines, be it Ultramarines or any other can with precise timing and speed, and precision planning can pull it off taking earth.

NOte: this is not a Super serious reply, more of a suggestion to ideas in a comical sense.
I'm not saying we wouldnt put up a fight but lets be realistic here (not fantasy wise because this is all fantasy. haha) by the time the world realized who have come to invade, there wouldnt be a planned course of defensive action and i hardly think all the nations would respond with the same interests in mind. The major nations might be able to scramble forces pretty fast but that could take days or weeks or even months and that is just too little time against space marines. Space marines have the tactical advantage of knowing there opponent before there's even know about them, they have a brain that can think twice as fast as any of ours and have crazy reaction speeds and what not. There practically the perfect human physique wise and mentally hardened to the point of fearlessness, and they have a faith so strong nothing can break it ( well almost unbreakable, seeing how there's chaos space marines. lol) Well i dont want to turn this into a discussion about the absolute things a space marine can do or cant, but think Rambo with a IQ of 160 in Power armor. (thats a bad comparison but best one i can think of at the top of my head) 

So the pro's of the space marine situation:
Intel, Stealth, Tactical advantage, A freakin Cruiser in space (uh i dont think we have one of those yet. haha), Super Soldiers (think Captain America or Hulk even. lol), Several high tech machinery and vehicles, They would also carry with them there own PDF forces for conquering of worlds (seriously, what space marine chapter would go conquer a world without any grunt troops to hold everything once they have it. it makes no tactical or logical sense, because thats clearly not the space marines job to do, they are Shock troopers!) Also reminder to those who have forgotten, Space Marines have lived for a long time! more then any Special forces on earth or anyone, and have seen much more combat then any of them. Sure power armor is awsome and all but no one can really know how durable the power armor is since we have no way of testing the defense it can provide. Unless you know for a fact armor piecing shells can pierce Ceramite plated armor, then your good to go and please state a source for such a fact to bring light to others who didnt know. Also to those who read the 40k books and read that lasguns have blown through power armor, well, that was against traitor marines with armor as old as 10k years! sure you can shoot joints and little spaces were they are vunerable, but whats the chance in doing that when the space marine is constantly moving and running and ducking and getting behind cover and shooting at you! Space marines can also kill many things with a bolt gun because of its explosive shells and because they have Auto targeting systems built into there helmets! (if you wanna see a example of that, look up Iron man movie at the part where he blows 8 guys heads off in one go with his targetting systems)

lol i'm tired of writing and my fingers hurt so ill comment more later. thats hardly half of what i wanted to say. i still have to defend the Earth's argument too.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

darkreever said:


> Actually, the Emperor enforced a disposal of religion to rob chaos of power; the gods rely on faith and religion to a fair degree and with that aspect taken away they lose power. I believe Child-of-the-Emperor, who hangs around in the 40k fluff section more often than not, can explain it far better and in much more detail as well.


That is exactly correct darkreever 

The Imperial Truth (which was arguably a lie) was enforced in an attempt to rob Chaos of influence and power. The Great Crusade's (of which the Imperial Truth was a part) aim was to unite all of humanity under the Emperor's Iron Fist, and smash aside all Xenos species.

In this regard the influence and power that Chaos had gained through Xenos species would be diminished. But the main reason for the Imperial Truth was to rob Chaos of Power & Influence among Mankind, which it had gained largely during the Age of Strife. By forcing all of Mankind to reject Gods, Daemons and Spirits - the Chaos Gods would as a result have diminished in power.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> That is exactly correct darkreever
> 
> The Imperial Truth (which was arguably a lie) was enforced in an attempt to rob Chaos of influence and power. The Great Crusade's (of which the Imperial Truth was a part) aim was to unite all of humanity under the Emperor's Iron Fist, and smash aside all Xenos species.
> 
> In this regard the influence and power that Chaos had gained through Xenos species would be diminished. But the main reason for the Imperial Truth was to rob Chaos of Power & Influence among Mankind, which it had gained largely during the Age of Strife. By forcing all of Mankind to reject Gods, Daemons and Spirits - the Chaos Gods would as a result have diminished in power.


The four main chaos entities were born as a result of centuries of emotions being fed to them (war, despair, lust and for tzenctec I'm not sure), not the worship of them.

The worship of them simply fuels and maintains the fire which was *started* by the years and years of raw emotion shaping up into what the four chaos powers are.

So I don't see how by taking part in wars against rebellious humans, xeno-genocide, and massive celebrations in between would not have contributed to the growing chaos powers pre-heresy?

My point is that it doesn't make sense that the emperors sole purpose of the great crusade was to be ridden of religion simply to rob the chaos entities from growing in power for the manner in which he would be doing so would in essence be fueling them.

So that is why I'm of the opinion that he did it to rid humanity of superstition and religion that caused internal wars (religious wars) as he had seen throughout the centuries of human history and to rid mankind of the fear instilled upon them during the age of strife from constant alien raids and the superstitious, medieval state humanity had become for he was a believer in science. And seeing as how he lived through the age of technology, he had seen the wonders humanity gained and thus it most likely fueled his desire to return to that age. 

He was waiting in the shadows the whole time throughout the ages and finally made his move to unite humanity during the age of strife for in my opinion it was a good time to remind humanity of their histories which no one other than the emperor could remember and retake what they had lost in an age of colonialism.


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## LordLucan (Dec 9, 2009)

Emotions feeds the chaos gods, and sustain them. Emotions are very important. However, faith shapes what form and what identity the chaos gods take. Without faith, they lose their identiy, becoming a formless madness. Liber Chaotica explains the need for faith amongst the gods in a fair bit of detail.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> The four main chaos entities were born as a result of centuries of emotions being fed to them (war, despair, lust and for tzenctec I'm not sure), not the worship of them.
> 
> The worship of them simply fuels and maintains the fire which was *started* by the years and years of raw emotion shaping up into what the four chaos powers are.
> 
> ...


The Emperor's Greatest Ambition and Goal was to challenge the Chaos Gods and weaken their grasp on humanity. His methods point to the fact that he believed the end justifies the means. 

If you think about it each step of his plan that we know of was working towards this objective.

* He lived among humanity for many millenia, guiding his species. And perhaps finally realising that humanity couldn't simply be guided into rejecting Chaos and forging its own destiny without him...
* Seeing what devastation the Age of Strife brought, finally spurred him into action (and finally being in a position to enact his plans)...
* He fought in the Unification Wars and conquered Terra, and entered an alliance with Mars (which he had planned ever since the defeat of the Void Dragon), enabling him to launch the Great Crusade.
* The Great Crusade brought the vast majority of humanity under his Iron Rule, and the Imperial Truth was forced upon all of Mankind. This in itself robbed Chaos of worship (direct or otherwise) which although not necessarily vital for the Chaos Gods, was a step in the right direction.
* The Invasion of the Webway which followed the Great Crusade, was designed to free Humanity from reliance on Warp Travel, and thus reliance on the Warp for communication aswell. Which would again in turn be a step in the right direction.
* Who knows what else he would have achieved if the Heresy had never occured. He may well have allowed humanity to realise its psychic potential without a major threat from Chaos being present, and forged a galaxy for humanity whose rule was unopposed. A place of enlightenment and great achievement.

(Thats generally how I see it anyway)

The Great Crusade was necessary to create the utopia of mankind. But mostly, it was necessary for the weakening of Chaos. It was a shame that the Chaos Gods undermined the threat the Emperor posed by corrupting Horus.


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## LordLucan (Dec 9, 2009)

Precisely child-of. And people claim the Imperium 'won' in the Horus Heresy!


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## fiore hellheart (Apr 30, 2008)

I was going to post something about space marines vs earth 2010, but then i noticed the thread has gone sort of off topic


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

fiore hellheart said:


> I was going to post something about space marines vs earth 2010, but then i noticed the thread has gone sort of off topic


Wow I logged on because I thought someone contributed to the thread. Useless.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

And now your both just adding spam to a thread thats skewed a little off topic. Since we are going off topic and people seem to feel the need to just post spam, this thread seems to be at an end so I'll go ahead and close it now.

Let it die the proper death of threads, with other, better ones, burying it to the pages below.


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