# Space Marines VS a Spartan



## ChapterMaster22 (Jul 15, 2008)

Well I read lots of fluff :biggrin: and I let a friend read some of my Horus Heresy novels. We also play lots of Halo together so we talked about who was better a spartan or a Space Marine. I said a SpaceMarine and he said a spartan. So I know almost everybody has played halo so im looking for a honest opinion and this would help decide our disagreement. PlZ post


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

how many Halo character vs marine threads is this now?


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## BloodAngelsfan (Jan 22, 2009)

I'd say... the god damned 8+ ft. tall monster! With a gun with exploding bullets and 19 extra organs!


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

@Raptors8th- Anyway, Marine hands down. Better trained, inches thick armour, smarter, faster, stronger, better equipped, and made to survive wounds that would kill a human several times over. No Spartan can beat them.

Changing a couple of words of your statement and we've got the reason Marines beat Spartans.


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## Nipolian (Nov 4, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> how many Halo character vs marine threads is this now?



Alot i started one but it was about grey knights vs sparten 

ps i still think i would win in a fight


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Raptors8th said:


> Better trained: Spartans have been in boot camp since they were 5. They went on their first combat missions when they were 14, and they started fighting covenant like two months later. Marines become scouts around 20, go on a few combat missions and get the BC, and then get Power Armour. Spartan wins here.


Space marine aspirants are trained by their people to be the best candidates for being taken by space marines, this is done from the moment they can be trained, so about the age of five as well.

Once the best candidates are actually taken by the space marines, it takes a decade of training and implantation before they are even turned into scouts, at which point they go right into the same kind of combat as normal full fledged battle brothers. They might not be going into hard combat when they are taken by the marines, but they do go into the same kind of combat without power armour and have to earn their black carapace and armour over several years of fighting.

Where training is concerned, the two are likely a tie or so close that theres really no honest way to tell.



Raptors8th said:


> energy shields: Spartan has shields that can take a direct hit from a fuel rod cannon, marine doesn't. Simple as that.


Best armour is not getting hit, both marines and spartans are capable of superhuman reflex's so its a tie here.



Raptors8th said:


> smarter: Spartans can do advanced mathematical problems that would take Einstein 10 minutes, a calculator and a piece of paper in 10 seconds. Never heard of marines having anywhere near that intelligence or speed of mind, and they don't receive any upgrades meant to increase it, unlike Spartans.


Like spartans, marines are able to calculate location of enemies, strategy, how best to act, how best to react, and what conditions will cause what effects while in the middle of a firefight.

Oh look at that, more a tie than either side being better.



Raptors8th said:


> faster: Can marines run 60 mph? Didn't think so. Plus power armour's big and clunky compared to MJLONIR.


The fact that power armour is big and looks bulky means nothing. The black carapace allows the wearer to interface with the armour to the point where its a second skin, not an armour. A marine who just gets his armour is instantly able to use it with no problem, a spartan has to practice with it and get used to the thing.

Without their armour, can spartans see in the dark as clear as if it were light out? Ignore wounds that should kill normal men and be able to fight on for hours or even days without aid? Heal more minor wounds (fractured bones, bullet wounds, cuts, and others)? Survive for over twenty minutes on one full lungful of air and still function? Ingest poisons that should kill normal people with no trouble at all? Not sleep for weeks on end with no degrading effects to physical or mental function? Filter out harmful chemicals and toxins from the very air? Increase or decrease neurotransmitters in order to increase efficiency in a given situation?

Space marines *can* do all of those things without their armour, and power armour only serves to further augment what a space marine is capable of doing.

Who can run faster? Who cares, neither a spartan or marine can run that fast in the blink of an eye but both can move faster than a human can see. 



Raptors8th said:


> stronger: Spartans can lift 1000 lbs without their armour, several tons with it (they can flip an MBT). Never heard of a marine doing that.


And yet marines can, there are examples of one or two lifting the same or greater weight as a spartan with and without their armour. Space marine is also able to crush the skull of a normal person with one hand, a spartan has the strength to do it, but he can't put a normal person's head in one hand.

At best, another tie here.



Raptors8th said:


> better equipped: MJLONIR armour is just better, it enhances more and it's not clunky but graceful, plus it's got shields. As for weapons, their standard AR and BR aren't quite as good as a boltgun, but their special weapons are (eg. Spartan laser, which can punch a hole through 10 MBTs in a row).


The only thing MJOLNIR armour has over power armour is the shield the last models were equipped with. As for special weapons, what are you just comparing all of the spartans weapons vs the bolter alone? Marines have the likes of powerfists, power weapons, plasma, melta, and lascannons you know.

Also, 10 tanks in a row, kind of find that hard to believe.



Raptors8th said:


> made to function on it's own: Spartans are more of a commando than a line soldier, they're designed to fight behind enemy lines alone where the only thing you can rely on is yourself. Marines are just beefed up soldiers.


Oh wait, spartans are super elite soldiers capable of dealing with any situation they are put in with very few exceptions? Sounds just like a space marine if you ask me. Marines are the most elite and highly trained fighting force of the Imperium, equipped with the best weapons and armour possible with cost not being an issue. They are trained to fight in any condition, with whatever they have, and get the job done however possible.

Thats a marine and spartan from where I'm sitting. Oh look, a tie.


Spartans are simply humans with years of body conditioning, reflex modification, mental and phsyical training, and some metal bonded to their bones. (There are a few other things, but without armour a spartan isn't all that impressive.)

A space marine is *not* a human; he is a super human, a genetically, mentally, and surgically modified soldier able to live for hundreds of years, fight in the harshest of conditions, survive the most horrendous of ones and still fight on, and fight unspeakable horrors the humanity they are designed to protect should never have to know about let alone see.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

i think to make this fair we need to keep it a standard spartan with standard guns (assault rifle), to standard space marine (bolt pistol & chainsword) if we start going into heavy weapons itll turn into a halo universe vs 40k universe shit fight. IMO Spartin wins when any distance is taken into account, rechargable energy shields will do that but. once things get up close and personal, im pretty sure the SM would take Master Chief apart, chainsword or even bare hands. i dont think MC's old 'gun bunt' would do much to a SM.

so in conclusion,

distance firefight = spartan
up close = space marine


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Having read both Warhammer 40k and Halo novels pretty thoroughly, I'm going to have to side with the Space Marines.

Halo standard weapons are designed to fight humans by humans. Sure, you have the fuel rod gun (which isn't even a human weapon), but for the most part unenhanced humans can and do use the same weapons the Spartans use.

Space Marines were designed to conquer a galaxy and fight anything in it. Their weapons are beyond the ability for a man to use.

About Spartan strength, they can life 3 times their own body weight, which is already double a normal humans. Let's say 170 pounds is a good solid average weight, so that puts their lifting abilities around 1000 pounds. This is sans power armor.

Honestly, flipping MBTs is more of a gaming tool. Many games normal humans flip cars with no problem, but we don't assume that these games have humans capable of flipping 2 ton trucks over at a whim.

And I question you on how long a Spartan lives. The oldest real Spartans (the IIs) have been around for what...35 years? 40, maybe? Not exactly long lived yet. 

And I'm dubious about how durable Spartans are. Fred loses his arm up to the elbow. He fights for a while, but it's clear that it's affecting him. Shock was setting in and the pain was taking the edge off his skill. Marines would shrug it off and with their instant self-clotting blood, shock isn't an issue.

Looking at the assault rifle's ammo caliber, it's .3. Or 7.62mm. Not exactly the heaviest hitting weapon. To give you an idea, when compared to a bolter round, assuming identical shapes, that'd mean a bolter round weighs around 13 times what a MA5B round does. And the bolter is more of an explosive rocket rather than a purely kinetic weapon.

The fact that the MA5B has been known to at least damage Spartan shields, and in small groups of 4-5ish, have been known to quickly deplete Spartan shields, I'd be hesitant to say the Spartan power armor is more durable, shields or no.

The augments for Spartans are much less extensive than a Space Marine. Spartans have increased strength, stronger bones, very good night vision (can see in almost complete darkness) and incredibly fast reflexes. Human abilities augmented.

Space Marines aren't...really human anymore. They can eat almost anything. They gain knowledge by eating their opponents. Can filter out poisons from the air that'd kill a human without trouble. Breath in atmospheres that would be incapable of sustaining a normal human, spit poison, go completely without real sleep, simply can not be disoriented by gravity or motion (something John comments on in...First Strike, I believe? Complained how the acceleration played havok on his inner ear). Strong bones and redundant organs.

But most importantly of all, they don't bleed out. Shock is a major battlefield killer. Even if a marine loses an arm or leg, it'll clot up instantly and he can continue to fight. And with additional vital organs, even a shot through the heart doesn't mean death.

Given the opponents the Spartans have to face, they're more than sufficient. Space Marines were designed to fight in a very different universe.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

hailene said:


> But most importantly of all, they don't bleed out. Shock is a major battlefield killer. Even if a marine loses an arm or leg, it'll clot up instantly and he can continue to fight. And with additional vital organs, even a shot through the heart doesn't mean death.


Actually, its still possible for a space marine to bleed out; if he is bleeding from a major artery his body will likely not be able to stop the bleeding as the loss of blood is simply to great for his body to cope with. But at the same time, you do the exact same damage to a spartan and he is as dead as the space marine, more so as his body does not give him even the slightest of chances of healing the damage.

Even if its as severe as a wound severing the coratid artery or a whole limb, a marines body will try to heal and cope to some degree and in some cases may actually be able to do it. 

If a marine has his entire arm lopped off and the damage is so severe that he can not cope with it, he can go into a semi conscious state in order to conserve energy and life and possibly survive until he can be saved. This is thanks to one of the many implants a marine has that a spartan does not.



hailene said:


> Given the opponents the Spartans have to face, they're more than sufficient. Space Marines were designed to fight in a very different universe.


Spartans are also designed to fight a very specific enemy while marines are designed to fight anything. That a spartan can cope and eventually be able to fight something he was not designed to fight is all the difference between him and a space marine.



Brother Subtle, if your going to compare a stock spartan vs a stock space marine, then the marine is armed with bolter, bolt pistol, and combat blade not bolt pistol and chainsword. Only assault specialists and certain chapters equip their basic troops in that manner.


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## Nipolian (Nov 4, 2009)

darkreever said:


> Space marine aspirants are trained by their people to be the best candidates for being taken by space marines, this is done from the moment they can be trained, so about the age of five as well.
> 
> Once the best candidates are actually taken by the space marines, it takes a decade of training and implantation before they are even turned into scouts, at which point they go right into the same kind of combat as normal full fledged battle brothers. They might not be going into hard combat when they are taken by the marines, but they do go into the same kind of combat without power armour and have to earn their black carapace and armour over several years of fighting.
> 
> ...


First it does not matter what a spartan is like IF he isn't wearing his armor cause he he will be!!!!!!!!!!!

Second did you see the vidio of the spartan kicking that brutes ass!!!!!

Yes the Spartan Laser can go through like 10 tanks!!!!!

Yes SM can can deal with situations but they do that in a group!!!!!!!!!!

Dont know if its in the quote above but Grey knights are the best in 40k


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Nipolian said:


> First it does not matter what a spartan is like IF he isn't wearing his armor cause he he will be!!!!!!!!!!!


spartans don't wear armour 24/7


Nipolian said:


> Second did you see the vidio of the spartan kicking that brutes ass!!!!!


even ODST can kick a brutes ass, for a simple reason, brutes are pussies


Nipolian said:


> Yes the Spartan Laser can go through like 10 tanks!!!!!


nope, the books don't confirm that and neither does the game


Nipolian said:


> Yes SM can can deal with situations but they do that in a group!!!!!!!!!!


as do spartans


Nipolian said:


> Dont know if its in the quote above but Grey knights are the best in 40k


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

of course the main 2 problems are
1: 2 different universes that will never meet
2: there not real so neither would win


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## liforrevenge (Oct 6, 2009)

Raptors8th said:


> better equipped: MJLONIR armour is just better, it enhances more and it's not clunky but graceful, plus it's got shields. As for weapons, their standard AR and BR aren't quite as good as a boltgun, but their special weapons are (eg. Spartan laser, which can punch a hole through 10 MBTs in a row).
> 
> made to function on it's own: Spartans are more of a commando than a line soldier, they're designed to fight behind enemy lines alone where the only thing you can rely on is yourself. Marines are just beefed up soldiers.
> 
> So yeah. Spartan wins.


First of all, comparing the spartan's special weapon is apples to oranges.

also comparing a commando to a basic troop is a terrible comparison (just like the special weapons to the basic boltgun.)

so as much as i think it would be a good fight, the spartan would win


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

Can a space marine flip over a tank by himself? Because Master Chief could. I think that in a situation where they are put in a ring with no cover the space marine will win. If they are in any form of urban combat the spartan has the advantage. 

Now a Force commander is a different story.


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## jams (Sep 19, 2009)

a marine would punch the chief's head off his shoulders


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Raptors8th said:


> And @ whoever made the quip about spartans solving problems in squads, yes they sometimes work in squads but they are designed to work on their own or in groups of 2-3. Marines work in groups of 5+.


for a reason, there are bugger all spartans compared to marines, so you don't need to have them work alone, just because someone works alone doesn't make them better by default, marines fluffwise can and have worked alone on many occasions.

its like putting 500 soldiers in groups of 5 against 100 soldiers in groups of 1, are those 100 soldiers suddenly all better than the 500?, no, there all dead before you can blink


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

That's odd. Since the FIRST lesson the Spartans learned in basic was that it doesn't matter how well an individual performs, if his team fails, he fails. Or did I misread that? Or the whole pack of wolf taking down larger animals? Team work, team work, teamwork.

Pick your fair share of FPS with vehicles. But the most telling one is probably ODST. I mean those guys are tough, but they can flip Warthogs and Scorpion tanks, too. Maybe the tanks are just bottom heavy, eh?

And back to what the Spartans were designed to fight against--The Innies. Regular humans. Their equipment reflects it.


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## Nipolian (Nov 4, 2009)

hailene said:


> Having read both Warhammer 40k and Halo novels pretty thoroughly, I'm going to have to side with the Space Marines.
> 
> Halo standard weapons are designed to fight humans by humans. Sure, you have the fuel rod gun (which isn't even a human weapon), but for the most part unenhanced humans can and do use the same weapons the Spartans use.
> 
> ...


Firstly No sparten has ever been killed in battle!!!!!!!!!!!

A sparte has jumped from space (i think it was) and servived 
A SM cant do this

But in the SMs deffence a sparten is the most ellite of the UNSC
Where as a regular SM is not we should really be using a grey knight but this thread is about SM so i think whe should at least us a terminator or better!!!
:grin::grin::victory::victory:k:


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Raptors8th said:


> Nice but bad analogy. The point isn't that being on their own makes them better, it's that they're trained and designed to work on their own, which means they have to do everything by them self and are perfectly capable of winning when they're outnumbered.


all soldiers are trained how to work alone


Raptors8th said:


> @the person who was talking about car flipping in games: What games are these you speek of? Cause I've never played a game that had _anything_ like that.


err....Halo


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Wait, no Spartan has been killed in battle?

*SPOILERS* 

Out of the 33 Spartans that survived the augmentations, only 8 are left alive.

*SPOILERS OVER*

They dropped out of a Pelican that was most definitely within the atmosphere. And 4 of them died attempting to do so.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Nipolian said:


> Firstly No sparten has ever been killed in battle!!!!!!!!!!!


yeah they have, just because fluff writes that no spartan can ever be reported as KIA only MIA does not mean there not dead.


Nipolian said:


> A sparte has jumped from space (i think it was) and servived
> A SM cant do this


can you quote where it says both of this?
Chief *BARELY* survived dropping from a ship well within earths atmosphere, and I don't remember ever reading that a space marine can never survive orbital drop, not that I've ever read it happening


Nipolian said:


> But in the SMs deffence a sparten is the most ellite of the UNSC


unlike a space marine being the elite of the imperium


Nipolian said:


> Where as a regular SM is not we should really be using a grey knight


why? master chief is not a daemon (to humans) and has no psychic powers, grey knights are just marines basically, with shiny armour and a pointy stick.

of course its all a moot point, SGT Johnson could kill marneus calgar with just his cigar, and you don't wanna see what would happen if he got in a fight with a thousand spartans, they would be KIA


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

@ Nipolian-
First, the use of more than one *!* just makes you look like a child with ADD so please stop it for all our sakes.

Now I haven't read any of the Halo novels but I was under the impression that Master Chief was the last Spartan, if thats so what happened to the others if they didn't die?

In fact a regular Space Marine _*is*_ the elite of the Imperium's armed forces, there wouldn't even be a debate if we were to compare a Spartan versus a Grey Knight, the Spartan would be so out of his league it wouldn't even be funny.
I'm not entirely sure how you think Space Marines are used in battle, but judging by your posts whatever that view is- it's wrong.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Baron Spikey said:


> Now I haven't read any of the Halo novels but I was under the impression that Master Chief was the last Spartan


if I remember rightly I think there is 1 other, I'm sure I read of there being at the very least 1 other, or at least believed to be


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

A quick google got me this page:

http://halostory.bungie.org/spartanroster.html

It's pretty thorough on which Spartans are alive and which ones died when.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Raptors8th said:


> And spikey: I see guy with pointy stick and shiny armour running at me. I have Anti-tank missile launcher/sniper rifle/super-duper awesome laser gun that goes through multiple tanks with one shot. My course of action seems clear.


'Dude with shiny armour and pointy stick' sees you waiting there with heavy weaponry and teleports next to you, pointy stick takes off Spartan head.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Baron Spikey said:


> 'Dude with shiny armour and pointy stick' sees you waiting there with heavy weaponry *and teleports next to you*, pointy stick takes off Spartan head.


uhh...what?, now I know both universes are a bunch of horse manure, but personnel pin-point accurate teleporters in an age of inaccurate mass deepstrikes?

not likely, there is displacement fields, but there a little iffy to use at best, and not designed for teleporting around in combat


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Raptors8th said:


> so now: Guy w/ pointy stick and shiny armour attempts to teleport next to me and dies when he re materialises inside a solid rock.


the most likely outcome of displacement fields :biggrin:


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm still dubious about the Spartan's shield capacity. It's vulnerable to sustained small arms fire. I'd ask if anyone has done any sort of calcs on it, but I'm guessing it's more based on plot than facts.

And I'd assume that the bolter (gauging at the effectiveness of the various human weapons fare against Spartans) would be a one--maybe two shot kill against a Spartan. Considering the powerful sniper rifle's ammo is pretty small compared to a bolter round.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

hailene said:


> I'm still dubious about the Spartan's shield capacity. It's vulnerable to sustained small arms fire. I'd ask if anyone has done any sort of calcs on it, but I'm guessing it's more based on plot than facts.
> 
> And I'd assume that the bolter (gauging at the effectiveness of the various human weapons fare against Spartans) would be a one--maybe two shot kill against a Spartan. Considering the powerful sniper rifle's ammo is pretty small compared to a bolter round.


probably 2 at the most, shield taking the first, armour taking the second for the kill shot, even if it doesn't breach the explosive force is gonna knock that spartan out of the fight with massive internal injuries, but a head shot may still be 1, if gameplay is any kind of comparison to reality then a single head shot can breach both shield and helmet with its none explosive smaller round at high velocity, so a good headshot with a bolter shell even though slower velocity should leave nothing left but a headless body slumping to the floor due to the explosion and size.

but I still haven't given my thought
in a ranged fight I believe that its a no call, it all depends on what each are armed with, a spartan with sniper rifle vs marine with bolter should be about an equal fight. 
with an MA5B (or other assault rifle) the marine will win, since the caliber is far too small to penetrate marine armour in all except the softest locations, but damage caused internally would be inefficient to overload a marines internal defences.
a spartan with missile launcher or spartan laser would win though, but only closely, as you have the problem of having to use 2 very inaccurate weapons.

in close combat I think the spartan would have the edge, although marines move with blistering speed and strength, I think the spartan may just have the edge being a smaller target with similar speed and strength, but unless he is armed with a plasma sword or tries to remove the marines helmet to reach his head (a dangerous task) he just won't do the damage to kill the marine without breaking every single bone and forcing the marine to go into shock, which will take too long.

mentally again its probably even, but now it depends on rank, a chapter master or librarian will easily out think a spartan, who although intelligent only has to handle ops on a squad based level, and will not fight as many battles as a marine master, so the experience will be a huge factor.

really its too close a fight to call one way or the other with any guarantee.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Just doing a quick google on some of the more popular sniper rifles around, they don't seem to be particularly faster than, say, an assault rifle.

They make it up by using a (comparably) larger shell. First to pack more punch, secondly to be less affected by its environment. 

And just judging from the Lexicanum, a bolter isn't simply a small rocket (that also shoots out at a very high velocity) that merely explodes on contact, but closer to a HEAT round than anything.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Obviously my suggestion of such accurate teleporting is ridiculous but I thought that was the idea since a Grey Knight appears to be rushing mindlessly into a heavy weapon position in that scenario...


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I don't recall the bullets going uber fast. In fact the travel time in the games seem more or less equal to their modern day counterparts. Could you cite some sources that tell us the bullets go significantly faster?


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Halopedia mentions nothing of it. Most of the weaponry, per Halopedia, seems to be based a great deal on modern weaponry.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

I am firmly in the "Marine" camp, myself. There are all the reasons - versatility, lack of over-dependence on armor, mental conditioning, and so on--but there's one more thing that hasn't been taken into account. Technology. Even if the Imperium is stagnant, the Golden/Dark Age level of tech--the STCs--are far and away above that of the UNSC.

MJOLNIR armor is, beyond (the only high point of) the shields, a glorified 40k equivalent to carapace armor with servos to boost strength. Space Marine armor is made from layered ceramite and adamantium. "Autogun" fire, such as the Spartan assault rifle, can be poured into it by the bucketload, leaving only dings and scratches on its surface.

And then weapons. These things haven't been properly compared. Bolters are FAR superior to assault rifles, if we're going to go by standard weapons. In my mind, lascannons are on par with spartan lasers--if we don't count the warm-up period on the laser. Otherwise, utter failure by the UNSC weapons, or a tie with low-grade 40k ones. Shotgun, assault rifle, SMG--these are "autoguns" and shotguns. I'll have you notice that no self-respecting Marine would be caught with those, apart from as a last resort, if their hands even fit on the guard. Sniper rifles...yes, UNSC ones might be better than modern ones, but by the same coin, I would be willing to bet that so are 40k ones. Golden Age tech, and all that. Missile launchers...in retrospect, this might be one slight edge to UNSC: the ability to swap frag and krak missiles is outweighed by the fact that there are two shots per reload.

Covenant weaponry: Plasma rifle and pistol=fail against plasmagun and plasma pistol. Beam rifle=longlas. Carbine=lasgun. Brute Spiker=shotgun again, or perhaps it's equivalent to the bolt pistol. The needler...is an edge to the Covenant. Bolter Executioner rounds are the nearest thing that I can think of, to its needles. Brute Shot=underpowered grenade launcher without a frag/krak option. Fuel Rod Cannon=weak plasma cannon (virtually no splash). The Covenant cc weapons are the nearest equivalent to 40k tech, in my mind: power weapons=energy swords and thunder hammers=gravity hammers. Except, oh yeah, the Covenant ones run out within less than twenty or so swings. Now, I've only included these because in the games, you use these as a Spartan fairly often--I recognize that in the fluff, it's actually quite rare. I can't see a Space Marine using 40k xenotech, so I shan't bother comparing pulse rifles, agonizers, gauss rifles and the like to Halo tech.

So as a whole, Halo weaponry falls on the level of Imperial Guard tech, I'd say.

Meanwhile, on the 40k end of things, Space Marines have bolters--effectively sub-machine gun mini-grenade/rocket launchers. I mean, there are countless fluff-story and BL instances where they vaporize heads, sever limbs, and catastrophically blast open ribcages, and so on. Let's see a bog-standard assault rifle do _that_...

Shall we say that a bolter is basically an assault rifle combined with a brute shot (with much smaller explosive yield per shot), or, to be very, very generous to the Brute Spiker, a long-ranged Spiker with the option to toggle automatic/burst rates of fire?

We've already been over lascannons (arguable tie, though I'm leaning for the immediate response 40k--though the overall power of both is beyond modern measurements, and so uncertain), plasma weapons (major 40k victory), and missile launchers (minor 40k loss). Flamers...are MUCH more prevalent than flamethrowers in Halo, but still a tie.

Then we have meltaguns (and variants). And then autocannons, and heavy bolters, and power fists, and more.

All right. Now for vehicles. I can't see the Warthog having higher than 10 AV on all sides, though some might argue, say, 11 on the front. It's got an "autocannon" on top, I guess. Space Marines would tear that thing to bits. The Scorpion...is almost on par with the Predator, except for the QUARTER-METER OF ADAMANTIUM. Add a twin-linked Spartan Laser to the top, and you've _almost_ got a Predator Annihilator.

I can't see Halo weapons, apart from the Spartan Laser, mebe Fuel Rod Cannon, and the Grav Hammer (+ Scarab weapons, but that would bring in Titans, so let's avoid that), doing anything more than shaking a Pred or a Rhino (or, to be generous, getting a "glancing hit" result). UNSC Missile Launchers are, effectively, frag missiles.

But on the other hand, all those precious Halo vehicles would be torn to bits--Ghosts and Mongeese and Spectres and the like--by a Space Marine with his bare hands and sustained bolter fire, let alone power fists and meltaguns. Those flimsy Brute Choppers and Warthogs would crumble before the wrath of the Angels of Death.

I won't bother comparing the seven kilometer, planet-cracking, void-shielded, two-hundred gun-per-flank Battle Barge against the kilometer-long, unshielded Pillar of Autumn, because Space Marines and Spartans don't really factor into that argument.

Then mental states:

*SPOILER* In _First Strike_, after flushing the Covenant ship, Master Chief nearly panics trying to take out a couple of Grunts when his shields are broken.*/SPOILER* On the other hand, Space Marines are psycho-conditioned away from normal, 'weakening' emotions. "And they shall know no fear", and all that jazz. They aren't dependent upon their power armor for peace-of-mind.

I forget the specifics of Spartan artificial modifications, but I remember reading them and being disappointed. Something like +9% bone strength and +15% muscle mass, and similar, or something along those lines, though that's estimating (high) from my memory.

On the other hand, Space Marines...we've been over their genetic modifications. This might help, even if I find it a bit...conservative, in terms of height.

I think that there is overwhelming evidence toward Marine supremacy. Please, nit-pick my argument apart and let's have some hearty discussion.


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## Skye (Oct 22, 2008)

Alright guys, you are all going at it wrong. Y'all are thinking of Space Marines as how they are in the normal game, which is neutered at best to their true lore. Space Marines can and have taken down Daemon princes, dreadnaughts or even anything as small and agile as lictors and genestealers. Last time I played Halo, the shield lasted a very short time under crappy fire at best, and I got one hit multiple times with sword charges. 
Cool it with the tank flipping, I understand: it's a bragging right against say...normal humans? I'm sure space marines could flip (or perhaps throw?) a tank with ease. As for games where people flip cars? Uh...Brutal Legend? Stuff like that where your car happens to flip over and you have to get back in for the simple reason that the game would suck if you lost a car just because it flipped. 
Space marines CAN survive deep space without armour. Never heard of a Spartan doing that... 
I think a better Space Marine comparison is "Movie Marines" where you can take, what, 5 in a 1500 point list. Marines are more than elite in their solo thinking and function skills as well. It is very often that you read about marines being found wounded on the battlefield on top of a pile of corpses of anything from daemons, orks, Tyranids (OH! smaller AND faster eh??) 
As it stands both sides are going to fight about this until their fingers bleed from typing and still stand thinking that they are right. This, in all essences is pointless because neither side will sway because it can not be proven because they will never meet and there is no feasible way to make it so. That is my two pointless cents in a rather pointless repeat thread that could go on forever with (mostly) Spartan-siders making the same points over and over like children and Marine-siders making good points that are simply ignored.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Skye said:


> Spartan-siders making the same points over and over *like children* and Marine-siders *making good points that are simply ignored*.


*cough*hidden marine bias*cough*
actually so far most of the points made *by both sides* have been wild figments of imagination supported by neither games, books or any other kind of information, with some actually real points spattered in between by others.


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## Iron Within (Mar 15, 2008)

Skye said:


> Alright guys, you are all going at it wrong. Y'all are thinking of Space Marines as how they are in the normal game, which is neutered at best to their true lore. Space Marines can and have taken down Daemon princes, dreadnaughts or even anything as small and agile as lictors and genestealers. Last time I played Halo, the shield lasted a very short time under crappy fire at best, and I got one hit multiple times with sword charges.
> Cool it with the tank flipping, I understand: it's a bragging right against say...normal humans? I'm sure space marines could flip (or perhaps throw?) a tank with ease. As for games where people flip cars? Uh...Brutal Legend? Stuff like that where your car happens to flip over and you have to get back in for the simple reason that the game would suck if you lost a car just because it flipped.
> Space marines CAN survive deep space without armour. Never heard of a Spartan doing that...
> I think a better Space Marine comparison is "Movie Marines" where you can take, what, 5 in a 1500 point list. Marines are more than elite in their solo thinking and function skills as well. It is very often that you read about marines being found wounded on the battlefield on top of a pile of corpses of anything from daemons, orks, Tyranids (OH! smaller AND faster eh??)
> As it stands both sides are going to fight about this until their fingers bleed from typing and still stand thinking that they are right. This, in all essences is pointless because neither side will sway because it can not be proven because they will never meet and there is no feasible way to make it so. That is my two pointless cents in a rather pointless repeat thread that could go on forever with (mostly) Spartan-siders making the same points over and over like children and Marine-siders making good points that are simply ignored.


I agree. Having read the Halo book The Fall of Reach, and read things about SM training, like in Flight of the Eisenstein, and I'm sorry, SM training is much tougher. Plus Space Marines are trained by other Space Marines, and Spartans were trained by a particularly tough drill sergeant. Something else I don't think has been taken into account is that Space Marines are (I think) functionally immortal, or at least they can live and fight for a really long time (example: Dante has been Chapter Master of the Blood Angels over 1000 years). Any given living Spartan could have been fighting for a few decades, but any give Space Marine could have been fighting for a few centuries. That puts experience points in the SM camp.

Space Marines all the way.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

Both Space Marines and Spartans would get their asses handed to them by the CDF Special Forces of John Scalzi's _Old Man's War_ series. 

If you have no idea what I am talking about then I suggest you check this book out. http://scalzi.com/books/omwpreview.html


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Gerard Sexgod Butler would tear Calgar are new fanny to breathe out of.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Just a little point, 40K Adamantium isn't equivalent to Titanium. The ol' 40K Admantium is supposed to be countless times more durable as Titanium (not that Titanium is all that great any way, being rather brittle if struck correctly), though not quite as indestructible as Marvel's version but still very difficult to damage. Which is why Terminators wearing virtually a foot thick of the stuff in layers with ceramite can shrug off anything up to and including anti-tank rounds.

To be honest I don't think the Spartan Laser would have all that much effect against Land Raiders and the like- maybe damage the paint work?


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

this thread is still going on? I love it when fan boys argue it out.

People make arguments about how the "tech" compares but we have no actual means of comparing them.

Can we actually measure the hardness of the construction materials?

Can we test what the actual effects of each factions weapons would have on the opposing armor?

Can we test any of these arguments or are we just spinning wheels?

We're spinning wheels here.

Unless someone is gonna post actual figures for each weapon and armor, let the thread die


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Well the titanium-adamantium thing I think is understandable, if adamantium was equivalent to titanium- then why go the effort of creating the alloy when you could just use readily available metal?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

More availability.

Wusword, last I checked, you have no authority to tell people what to do. When you do, then do so. But until then, sod off, and troll somewhere else. We're free to discuss what we feel within the constraints of both law and forum rules. There's no infringement of your rights by us posting in here - you don't need to open the thread.

You wouldn't go into a bar, see a guy drinking Stella, and say he's a cunt because he drinks Stella. A) Because nobody gives a fuck what some insignificant has to say when they mouth off, and b) Because you'd get the glass placed squarely in your face. On here, we can't glass you. Instead, we'll settle for just treating you like a twat until you learn to act properly? Deal?


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

All right, rather than quote everything and make it look like a mess, I'll just offer some points:

Close to the Tau? I wasn't aware they had personal power armor suits as standard, rail guns on their tanks, and giant mechs that could fight titans. Must've been in the background in one of the cut scenes or something.

Any gun short of heavy weaponry? Sam's suit was both pierced and failed to protect him from a deep wound by a smattering of shots. And while I was looking up the situation with the Grunt ambush and his unshield-ness, I saw this:

"A single lucky plasma shot could inflict third degree burns along his arm and shoulder to incapcitate him..."

So, at least to energy weapons, it doesn't seem to be impervious to them. It's difficult to find situations where the suit gets hit by solid weapons since the USNC only fired on a Spartan once and the shields took care of that. Though it is noted that Master Chief thought that under combined (small) arms fire the shield dropped quickly.

Couldja give me more information on the Spartan laser? I brought this up earlier, but if you could so kindly cite your source where it goes straight through no less than 10 tanks it's on dodgy ground at best.

Not quite sure where you're getting a reentry for the Spartans. At Reach they dropped out of a Pelican no higher than 8 kilometers. In fact the final actual statement of height was 8 kilometers, but Fred waited a bit. How long, we don't know. Though Joshua did say the pelican was dropping like a brick.

That's good to know a Scorpion has half a meter of armor. Wait, where does it say that? I don't recall ever reading the thickness and material type of Scorpion tank armor. Perhaps you could cite a source?

Ah, so now adamantium is equivalent to titanium? That's odd since they have titanium in Warhammer 40k but they find adamantium more useful. Just because two materials are used for the same purpose does not make them equal. Or are you going to say they're parallels because they both end in "antium"?


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Raptors8th said:


> Their tech levels are on completely different scales, Military-wise I'd say they're about even while slightly leaning towards Imperium. However my personal opinion is that UNSC is more similar to Tau than anything else in the 40k universe.


The tau don't use drop-troopers (Helljumpers/Elysian). The Tau don't use solid slug weapons, almost without exception. The USNC doesn't have pulse rifles, hover-tanks (apart from the Hornet, which I think that we will all agree is FAR closer to a Valkyrie than a Hammerhead), battlesuits (unless-hehehhe-Spartans?), a hybrid of chinese feudalism and communistic ideals, pheromone control, caste society...

And so on. I'm afraid that the similarities between the Imperium and the USNC, apart from the brutality of purpose and totalitarianism vs democracy. Apart from those, the two are very, very, very similar, even if on massively different scales.



Raptors8th said:


> Calling MJLONIR glorified carapace armour is just insulting and nowhere _near_ correct. You also point out that PA is made from ceramite and adamantium, which is pretty much what MJLONIR is made of. Adamantium is a fictional parallel to titanium, and ceramite is a type of super-durable ceramics, which is one of the main materials used in MJLONIR. And in the fluff MJLONIR can take AR (and pretty much any non-heavy weapon, covenant gun included) fire without much more than a scratch.


What Baron Spikey said. Titanium is fairly brittle, and 40k-mantium is bonded with ceramite, high-tech alloys, and so forth. I'll accept that you won't accept that for an answer; I, however, am convinced.

And "carapace armor" was a low blow; that's far closer to ODST, really. However, there is a vast difference in material and thickness and size between MJOLNIR and power armor, with the latter being vastly superior, according to what I and other have lain forward. We can agree to disagree, if need be.



Raptors8th said:


> Okay. The fact that bolter>AR has already been accepted. However, if you're really comparing guns based on standard weapons it would be lasgun vs. AR, since the major armies of each force use these weapons as their standard. However, Spartans have no standard weapons, since they're commandos they can take any weapon they like from the UNSC armoury based on mission specifics or personal preferences. As for lascannon vs. Spartan laser the laser beats the lascannon hands down. The main thing it has of the lascannon is portability, something that can be carried around and fired from the shoulder while moving is _far_ more useful than a 40+ pound (a _generous_ estimate) gun that requires super-human strength to pick up and a back-pack with a power generator. Add to that the fact that the laser can go clear through a tank and it's a definite Halo victory. As for shot guns and the other things mentioned, they're basically on par with the IG ones. Now for sniper rifles: Marines never use them, and thus have nothing to compare them to. So in the long range sniping situation a Spartan has a huge advantage.


If the Chief gets to take whatever heavy weapons he wants, why does the player character begin each mission with something like an assault rifle and an smg, or similar (with exceptions, such as a sniper or rocket launcher on fairly rare occasions)? Ah, yes--_because that's their main choice of weapon, and standard enemy-killing tool._ It's inefficient to lug the massive SL and missile launcher on one's back and in one's arms, and they have very, very finite amounts of ammo.

Space Marines effectively have whatever they want in their squads too, and were they to operate individually, they would be able to grab flamers, rocket launchers and the like, as well. They just, quite simply, find the bolter the easiest and most efficient tool. After all, against most foes, you only need one mini-rocket of depleted deuterium to put them down for keeps, and you'll get a lot more mileage out of your ammo.

Scout sniper Space Marines use sniper rifles--and I'd say that Scouts are pretty much Spartan IIIs, wouldn't you? Camoline cloak in the place of cloaking, lighter armor than their larger brethren, and so on. But I'd rather keep away from that can of worms, thank-you-very-much. I'll cede the point that most Space Marines proper don't use sniper rifles.

Shotguns and the other things mentioned: yes, they're on par with IG equipment. And in that vein, SM equipment is _much better than IG equipment_. So why would a SM use IG-style equipment?

Now, for the biggest point of conflict. Lascannon vs Spartan Laser. The point that I want to stress is that they're both obscenely powerful weapons--far and away above anything we have in modern times. It's nearly impossible for us to measure the strength of the superlaser in one fictional universe against the superlaser of the other, if they're both portable.

The SL can take out the conveniently exposed Scorpion driver in one shot, yes, or the tank in two shots (if I remember correctly). A lascannon, by the same type of comparison, can slag a turret, crack open a hull, or destroy a fortified bunker. Whether or not the laser beam "goes through" is not really addressed in 40k fluff, but if it's thin/flimsy enough, I'm sure that it would. A titanium Scorpion instead of an adamantium Land Raider, perhaps? :wink: (all right--that, considering our differences of opinion, was in poor taste)

Portability--a SM can carry a LC, and a Spartan can carry a Spartan Laser. Sure, IG have to set up two-man teams to carry LCs, but they aren't what is at issue. If anything, it points to the greater strength of the Marine that it can carry one easily unaided.

And you're downplaying (ie, not mentioning), the rather significant time delay. A target could easily have gone out of sight, flown away, hidden, dodged, or responded with a number of actions in the time that it takes to fire--whereas pulling the trigger of a LC has an instant annihilation effect. The Spartan Laser might be still charging when, on the other end of the field, the Space Marine with a LC sights the Spartan, lines up, and *bzorp*, melts him/her (if the Spartan doesn't dodge, which is likely--but then it's sacrificed the initiative, and likely lost its aim/stopped firing).



Raptors8th said:


> Plasma rifle and pistol are slightly better in the fluff, but 40k ones are definitely better. However, they never blow the user up, while 40k ones do. Beam rifle can't really be compared to anything, it's a sniper that uses energy instead of projectiles. Carbine is way better than a lasgun, closer to the sternguards sniper rounds than anything else (still weaker than these though). Needler is like nothing in 40k. Brute shot is better than a grenade launcher, one of the best covenant weapons against Spartans in the fluff and capable of a higher rate of fire. And the fuel rod isn't meant to work like a P-cannon, it's the covenants equivalent of an anti-tank ML. And as for melee weapons, in the fluff they don't run out of energy. And we're supposed to be comparing stock marine to stock Spartan, so covenant tech isn't even really relevant.


Plasma rifles and pistols still overheat; the consequences of such in 40k are simply greater, but at the same time, worth the accompanying yield. Besides, the "gets hot" rule, though on the board, appears to be a random malfunction, isn't one. It's when the barrel of the gun has literally grown so hot that it melts, or backfires. The user can choose to discard it and use another weapon until it cools, if they so desire. In fluff, such as stories and BL, I have not once seen a plasma weapon melt in its user's hands out of the few times that I have seen plasma weaponry--it is far more rare than the TT asserts, and the result of a largely conscious choice to push the weapon beyond its boundaries.

The longlas, which I mentioned, is a super-powered lasgun with a scope attached, used by many IG snipers. It is a very, very close equivalent to the beam rifle--though in TT terms, it counts as a normal sniper rifle.

The carbine--I checked Halopedia. It fires "radioactive projectiles", not lasers as I had assumed, so you are correct. Neither it nor the Needler are like 40k weapons.

I'd still argue that the 60-shot-per-magazine-at-standard-power, rate-of-fire-toggleable lasgun is better than the 18-shot rapid fire carbine.

The Brute shot...is an utter failure, when compared to even a modern grenade launcher. The Brute shot has a miserable range when 



, it can only fire "frag" grenades (unlike the 40k one, which can switch between frag and krak), it has an ammo complement of 6 shells and a total of 16 can be carried, period. This is atrocious, even by modern standards.

ASSUMING that the 40k grenade launcher is, in most respects, on par with modern grenade launchers (instead of more advanced than), I would pick it every time over the brute shot.

Oh yes, there is the sole positive point for the brute shot--the blade. That is...rather threatening, I will admit.

Personally, I hate the Fuel Rod whenever I use it (inaccuracy and such poor range), so I can't give an unbaised or even half-hearted comparison. But yes, all right, perhaps it isn't like a PC.

Oh, and you want only stock spartan gear, so you aren't going to allow the use of Covenant gear in this argument? I'll drop it henceforth, and that layer of versatility can be stripped from the Spartan, if you so desire.



Raptors8th said:


> Same as tech levels, in some cases yes and in some cases it's better.


As I see it, same levels, but quite often worse, sometimes different, and rarely on par with SM weaponry.



Raptors8th said:


> It wouldn't, but if I'm allowed to take any gun from the armoury and I know I'm gonna be fighting a SM I wouldn't take an AR.


And if a SM knew that he was going to face a Spartan? He'd probably take the plasmagun or meltagun. Besides, the Chief very rarely goes into a mission knowing exactly what he'll face, and has to take weapons that can deal effectively with as many foreseeable eventualities as possible.



Raptors8th said:


> Finally a correct comparison, Bolter _is_ basically a Spiker with a longer range but slower rate of fire.


NO! I completely disagree with you. The Bolter is not a single-handed pistol that fires heated metal spikes as fast as you can pull the trigger. It fires mini grenade-rockets, and can on auto-fire or in bursts or in single shells, depending on how formidable of a foe you have. It can fire MUCH faster than you can pull the trigger, which I can't say about Spikers.










1 : Propellant Base
2 : Outer Casing
3 : Gyrostabilizer
4 : Mass Reactive Detonating Cap
5 : Diamantine Tip
6 : Main Charge
7 : Depleted Deuterium Core 

That is not a metal spike (which Halopedia claims is the ammo of a Spiker).



Raptors8th said:


> As previously stated lascannons lose to SLs, plasma in 40k is better but more dangerous, and halo MLs are effectively krak missiles w/ 2 shots. UNSC doesn't use flamethrowers much because they aren't very useful.


I disagree that lascannons lose to SLs, especially because we can't measure the power of them side by side. Also, what makes you say that Halo missile launchers use krak grenades? That would imply a smaller, not-as-useful anti-personnel explosion, instead of the rather large one that we see. In my mind, I see Halo MLs as Frag missiles...





Raptors8th said:


> Meltaguns would have a hard time getting through MJLONIR (if it can take the heat of re-entry it can probably take your little heat beam too). And the UNSC has gauss cannons, chainguns and more.


HAH! (sorry)

Atmospheric entry is approximately 900 decrees Celsius (as of here). Meltaguns fire at 7000 degrees Celsius (CSM codex 4th ed). That is almost eight times as powerful. (I have read 7000 degrees in many places. Please forgive me for not sourcing it this time; my google-fu failed me)

And chainguns are basically heavy stubbers, which no SM would be caught dead with (and rarely dead because of). Gauss cannons-yes, I think that they are a very similar idea to meltaguns, just less effective and only found in cannon form, rather than mobile, too.




Raptors8th said:


> Wasn't this debate just a marine versus a spartan? So vehicles shouldn't matter, right? Oh well, I'm bored right now so I'll clear these up anyway. Warthog would get smashed by marines, but an attack bike would get smashed by Spartans. And if the hog had a gauss cannon and stayed out of range it would slaughter the marine before they could even touch it. As for the Scorpion, it's got a half meter of titanium, which I've already established is the same thing as adamantium. And it's cannon is effectively a railgun combined with a battle cannon.


Well, we were discussing weapons, and isn't a big vehicle a weapon? I thought that I'd cover another aspect of their differences.

And we've also established, on our side of the fence, that titanium _isn't_ adamantium, and is it really a half-meter thick? This doesn't look like it is, really. I mean, it's only three meters wide.

And if the assault bike had a multi-melta or meltagun, it would melt the Spartan into glass long before it reached the bike.



Raptors8th said:


> Thank you for leaving out titans, even though you didn't leave anything else out. Anyway, Spartan laser would tear through pretty much any 40k tank, even a LR. Fuel rod gun should go on the shaking list, and ML and chaingun should be on the "can kill 40k tanks list." Halo missiles are equal to (if not better than) krak missiles, in the fluff they can pen a wraith's front armour, which is half a meter of covenant alloy (an unknown alloy stronger than titanium), i'm pretty sure it can go through your adamantium. same goes for chaingun.


Perhaps. But remember, just because the weapon can destroy warthogs and spectres doesn't mean it can destroy this:









(and that IS a half-meter, just about, I'd say. Though that's a small Rhino--I don't think that Space Marines could fit in that).



Raptors8th said:


> Boltguns aren't that good against armour, and a Spartan with a laser or ML could annihilate all the marine equivalents as well (ie. bikes and attack bikes).


Boltguns ANNIHILATE armor. Modern armor would be torn to bits by them. They just aren't effective against power armor and terminator armor. They'll tear flak armor and equivalents apart with ease. It's a long stretch to call mini-explosives designed to penetrate _then_ explode ineffective against armor. Not very effective against MJOLNIR, perhaps, but far, _far_ more effective than an AR (which I maintain is the Chief's main weapon) against power armor--which it really isn't, at all.



Raptors8th said:


> No numbers were given, but they basically have increased size, greatly increased reflexes and intelligence, much better vision, increased muscle growth and density, and ceramite grafted to their bones to make them nearly unbreakable.


Really? What about the bit with the tests on chimpanzees? I was under the impression that those were the treatments soon given to the Spartan II candidates...



Raptors8th said:


> Is that enough hearty discussion for you?


Yes! Very much so! :biggrin: +rep!


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Some people shout:
SPARTANS!!!
others shout: 
SPESS MEHREENS!!!
It's the ultimate nerd argument, akin to STARWARS!!! vs STARTREK!!!

I'd say the Spartan would win. Not cause they're cooler, smarter or faster. Only because their head is larger than their shoulder (the DOW2 trailer was hilarious).


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## DeathTyrant (Aug 23, 2009)

It's true that this kind of argument rarely goes anywhere on account of it being hard to measure (or at least reach a consensus about) one game universe's armour, weaponry, and troops against the other.

So, on a purely subjective and personal level, I would go with Spess Muhreens winning by way of 'Rule of Cool', what with them being so much more:

Over the top
GrimDark
Br00tal
Angry
Screaming
Bald
Guys

But that's just me. It is worth noting that I have a 13 year history with GW SM, and am more than a little biased.


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## LordLucan (Dec 9, 2009)

Guys, you forgot the main advantage Space Marines have!

They have an organ which makes them immune to sun burn!

They have an organ that allows them to spit highly corrosive acid.

Their limbs, if any get broken, form a natural splint.

Oh, and Space Marines can't get drunk (unless you have Fenrisian Ale on you).

I tihnk you can agree, in a Spartan vs Marine Saharan vodka drinking competition, Marines would win hands down!


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

ARBITER VS ELDRAD GO

More halo character threads, and this one has gone on forever. Spartans and SM are pretty much tied. They both can take crazy wounds that would kill anyone else (Linda survived, and still fought, with a broken leg, a chunk of one lung, and half her organs turned to confetti, then _healed and kept fighting_). They both are pretty smart, though in terms of booksmarts I'd have to give it to the Spartans, though honestly, where does euclidean geometry help you in the middle of a firefight? They both have powerful armor and powerful weapons, and are basically tied.

DRONES VS VESPID!?
JACKALS VS KROOT!?
ELITES VS ELDAR!?
UNSC VS IG!?

I've seen all of these. Drones beat vespid through numbers, kroot beat jackals through size and close combat skill, elites win because of shields, IG wins because of lasweapons, bigger ships, and better tanks.

/thread


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> /thread


I second that.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Vaz said:


> You wouldn't go into a bar, see *a guy drinking Stella*, and say he's a cunt because he drinks Stella


wait.....what?, I don't go to those kinds of bars.......well not often...err I mean


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> IG wins because of lasweapons, bigger ships, and better tanks.


AND the IG have that... erm.... ''thing'' were they basically fuck a planet every-which-way possible with god knows how much crap. I think its some virus, with melta-torpedoes and the odd nuke....

I agree with what Vaz said about Admantium being used more than Titanium, even if both materials are equal in strength, as its more redilly availible. Alloys are often easier to make and more cost effective if the materials going into them are easier to find and extract, thus getting their strength by some process during production (similar to how glass is made and strengthened) than an element that has roughly the same properties but is harder to find and turn into a useful product.


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## delonemonkey (Oct 16, 2008)

ally i would stay away from this thread, but i am bored and just feel like writing something.


Now, halo takes place around 500 years from now. 40k takes place about..40 thousand years from then. I think who has the advantage with technology is obdivous. Thus it is safe to assume that a spartan, does have many upgrades and enhancements similar to a space marine, it does not have them to the same quality. 

He has power armor, but no where near as strong as a space marines. He relies on an energy sheild. Which is not a bad thing, the only thing is that the energy shield can be taken down faily easily, a few shots from a heavy weapon or energy weapon (like a 40k plasma or melta) or sustained small arms fire should do the trick. And i seem to recall that once a spartans shield is down, they can only withstand a little am mount of bullets. A spartans armor fails after less than a full magazine of assault rifle ammo is pumped into it. Lets see it stop a few bolter shots. For example if we take halo games as canon, once the shields gone master chief dies fairly quickly. I understand in real life you wouldnt be running around getting shot. But marines DO run around and get shot, and they can take it. 

And a spartan is insanley stronger than a normal human, and can lift cars and such. But a space marine without his armor is strong enough to crush your skull with his hands, and with his armor on, he can crush rocks with one hand as well. I dont think master cheif is that strong. 

There is also the story of a space marine being stepped on by a titan and he basically dusts himself off and gets up. 

Also the spartan laser has to charge up before it fires. A las cannon does not.


Honestly, i am a big halo fan as well as 40k, and i think out of common sense the civilization TENS OF THOUSANDS of years ahead technology wise would win. I think people should respect this gap in technology more. If you want to have the battle between these 2 characters from different universes.

When the gap is that big in time, you have to account that into every little detail. We are talking substances that we couldnt think of, substances that the scientists in the halo universe couldnt think of. 

And if we are going universe vs universe, Can you imagine if instead of the covenant finding the humans it was the imperium? Oh man that would be slaughter..It would not even be considered a major victory for the imperium, just another foot note. 

Might go a little something like this..


It was nearly a month since the visiters from across the galaxy made contact. They were humans, just like us but from a far more sophisticated time. Their space ships dwarfed ours, and their technology was so advanced that much of it is not fully understood by us. They have come here with a message. That message is that their "Emperor" is reuniting humanity after it was scattered through out the stars. They first approached us diplomatically. They had polititians, and then military commanders speak with ours. They contacted us from inner system before they came down in person. 

However, we made it clear to them that although we would embrace trade and help from the "imperium" we wanted no part of their empire. We wanted to remain under our own system of government. They then told us that we did not have an option. That was when we were introduced to their elite forces, the space marines. A commander of some sorts, more like a war lord, a space marine, came down in person to talk to our council of leaders. He basically told us that either we embrace the emperor, or be dissmantled completely and the imperium will take our worlds by force. 

That was yesterday. They had come down in full invasion force. We quickly realised we were fighting a losing battle. Even if they left for some reason it would be almost impossible to rebuild our cities. They destroyed our orbital defenses and ships almost effortlessly. We only even managed to break the shields of their smallest ships. There was now serious fighting on the ground from pockets of our military not yet wiped out.

My squad had been killed. 76 had been hit by a monstrous blast of energy. His shields were instantly over come. My visor dimmed because the explosion was so bright. It was some kind of plasma weapon he was hit with, something far beyond our technological ability. In less than a second he was reduced to a molten puddle. 34 Had not been so lucky. He had been severed in two by a huge glowing sword weilded by a maniac. When the sword came in contact with his shield, it popped it like a blister with a snap of decompression. It didnt make sense that the marine was able to even get within range to use his sword. He moved with quickness that even dazzled a super human spartan. The space marines had assaulted us from orbit while we were already engaged in operations fighting their main invasion force, the imperial guard. One of their drop pods landed right admist the area my squad was in. I only got away because i was farther away then my squad mates and had time to get into cover. The space marines began to fan out in search of more to kill. It was an annoyingly simple stradegy that they employed. They would dish out extremely heavy assaults with their imperial guard units, and force us to use frequent spartan support. That was when the first marines had dropped. We were having a hard enough time against the guard, But now it just was not fair. They tore through our lines like nothing. Their weapons were so mightily powerful that if i had not been so well trained i would have gazed in awe. And terror. 

Right now though, i had no time for either. I gazed out through the smoke of battle to see a giant walking towards me. The instant i had poked my head up he accuratly fired a burst of explosive rounds at my face. Two of them detonated harmlessly off my shield as i dove down into cover. My sheild was dangerously low. I could not withstand a much longer assault than that. I tossed a grenade over my cover and then ran around to draw a bead on him. He was still walking towards my position, gun raised and expecting me to pop out. I also had a high caliber sniper rifle with me as well, and went to a new position. I used a small hole in the wall to take the shot. But as soon as i put my gun out, more fire sprayed my way. I would have to out smart him some how, his reactions were to quick, plus even though i should not have been detectable from normal motion and heat scans he always knew where i was. 

Things were looking bad. He was within 20 meters now, the building i was in the only thing between us. He moved with wary determination, he knew i could possibly be a threat but also knew there was little direct action i could take against him. And this was painfully true. There was little scenario i could play out in my mind that didnt end with me pulped on the ground. He was close to 10 meters now, right outside the doorway of the building. I dont think he could fit through it though. 

As he approached the doorway, i bolted directly across the building right in front of him. While doing this i fired my sniper rifle from the hip. I got off two shots in that time, both of them direct hits. He had also opened up on me, but was slightly suprised. I dont think he was expecting me to move that fast. My shield took all the shots that would have killed me. But they also ruptured it. I would have to wait a few seconds for it to recharge. And he didn't feel like waiting. The shots that would have killed any man certainly did not slow him down at all. One of them hit his helmet and damaged the front of it. The grill of his mouth and filtration system were badly damaged. The other shot didnt do a thing. He suddenly charged towards me. Now I was suprised. I saw the reaction time that this guy had, but he was really capable of moving fast. He burst through the door frame, taking half of it down and then charged over to my position. I fired another shot at his head. It would have hit, if he wasnt so damned fast. The bullet instead burried itself in the gap in his armor at the armpit. This made him stumble, i had clearly hit him. He switched to a one handed grip and opened up. My shield, once again took the worst but it was not even fully recharged before he had started shooting. I quickly ran away, now on the backside of the building with him inside it. He came running out, and i pulled my battle rifle off my back. I fired again at his head. It was a burst of three shots, and all three him square in the middle of the helmet and one of his eye lenses cracked. Without breaking pace he tore the ruined helmet off of his head and let out a battle cry as he ran towards me. He fired a burst of shots. I managed to scramble out of the way for the worst of it but he hit me twice. It was enough to knock out my shield. I dove for cover but he hit me as i went down. The whole exchange took place in about ten seconds. The shot hit the side of my leg, completey blowing through my armor, which could withstand significant small arms and even higher caliber rifle rounds. There was now a large chunk of flesh blown out of my leg. Crawling behind cover i took out my last two grenades and armed them. Within seconds he came into view and i rolled both of them right at his feet. He didnt notice at first and then looked down, right before they detonated. He was writhed in a plume of exploding dirt and flame. But he just ran right through it. He now had severe shrapnel damage to his exposed face, but he was still alive. He stared at me wildly from his blood streamed face. His bolter had been destroyed in the blast though, and he was brandishing a combat knife that was more of a short sword. He swung it at me in a vicious arc that would have taken my arm off. Even with my thigh badly damaged i managed to side step/sway out of the way. He then hit me with a punch that was so fast i didn't see it coming. The punch didnt break through my helmet, but it sent me sprawling meters across the room. My head was spinning. He walked camly towards me, bent down and said; 
"for the emperor", he was about to finish me. 

As he bent down to stab me with his blade, i quickly rolled aside and put all of my energy into a huge right hook. He was for sure not expecting that. My fist connected with his cheek bone, which felt more like i was punching steel. His cheek was torn and ragged, i could see his teeth through the side of his face. But I didnt hurt him enough. Spartans had increased bone strength, but this was something else. That punch should have pulped a normal mans skull. He let out a low rumble of what must have been a chuckle, and then came at me again. After barely dodging a fierce stabbing thrust, and then a downwards swipe, he kicked me with his monstrous boot. It hit my ribs, and i could tell my armor took the worst, but once again i was flying through the air. This time he did not walk over slowly to finish me. He ran over, while i was on the ground he dropped a huge open palm strike right to the side of my head. One side of my helmet was crushed. He fumbled with it for a second, and then took it off of me. He saw my eyes staring coldly up at him. I think he somehow saw something similar to himself. After staring for a second, he reached for a gigantic pistol, leveled it to my head, and pulled the trigger.

now i am sure i could have written one where the spartan wins, but this is how i picture it for the most part. The space marines are just too well equiped . Also i think spartans have a good chance at beating marines, but they would have to be super sneaky and rely on much more than what they are equiped with.. I mean gaunt and his team of normal humans out smarted five chaos marines, so why shouldnt a few spartans be able to do the same? They could for sure, but not in my story :biggrin: 

I could have finished the story better but i NEED to go to sleep now. 4 am.

a quick edit:
The part about the sniper rifle, I have not read very much about the sniper from halo but i made the marine survive that because i read something where dark angels i believe were assaulting a lower tech human planet, and one takes a shot from a high caliber sniper rifle straight to the helmet, and it only damages it.

I also found this below on the halo wiki article about the sniper rifle.
Despite the round's designation of "Armor-Piercing," it is woefully inept in the anti-armor role, scarcely capable of damaging even the light-skinned vehicles commonly encountered in the Halo series


Please feel free to pick at my post.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

First: Sorry for the blocks of text.

Once again before I start I'm just gonna point out how silly it is to compare two fictional heavily armoured super soldiers (but if you can't beat them join them). The 'facts' could be skewed to favour either of the two. But since delonemonkey has laid out some good points in favour of the Spess Mehreens I'll make some points for the Spartans case (don't really care who wins, but a good debate is irresistible).

One of the problems I'm seeing here is that everyone is using Halo the game as the reference for the Spartan argument and 40k fluff as the reference for the Spess Mehreen argument. Not really a fair way to look at it as in the fluff Spess Mehreens can survive ridiculous amounts of punishment, and in the Halo games on legendary breaking wind can kill the Master Chief. Using the games for reference for one side of the argument is a bit silly, so lets use the fluff for both. 

Another problem is the assumption that because it's 40k the imperium is way more advanced than the UNSC. Obviously the Imperium is more advanced, but I wouldn't say they're leagues ahead. Keep in mind we don't know what kind of troubles technology went through in the past. During the past humanity may have thrown itself back into the dark ages through civil wars multiple times, so the Imperium doesn't necessarily have 40000 years in which they developed/improved their technology (though they still have quite a bit more). The UNSC also seems to make large 'leaps' in designing new technologies, although maybe it's an exponential effect (once you've reached a certain technology levels it's much harder to improve on it.)

While Spess Mehreens do have incredibly advanced armour, they are by no means impervious to small arms fire. The joints, vox grill (Is that what it is?) and eyes would all be weak spots in their armour, and I could easily see small arms fire penetrating these areas. It's true a Spess Mehreen is probably a lot tougher than a Spartan, but it's quite obvious that a Spartan is a lot faster and more agile than a Spess Mehreen. Spess Mehreens can't mount advanced AI's that increase their reflexes to almost instentaneous and provide them with tactical data and statistical models during fights. They can't deflect missiles, and would have a hard time dodging gunfire in their bulky restrictive Power armour (how do they scratch their backs?). All those of us who are unfortunate enough to have played Halo Wars will remember the spartans doing backflips and cartwheels to avoid enemy fire and grenades, somehow I can't imagine a Spess Mehreen doing that sort of acrobatics. A Spartan can run at speeds of up to 60mph (could someone verify this I remeber reading it somewhere but am not entirely sure), while it is the general consensus that Mehreens can only run slightly faster than a normal human (mostly due to stride length). So while Spess Mehreens are obviously much tougher/better armoured than a Spartan, a Spartans speed and reflexes need to be taken into account. When it comes to strength I'd say they're similar with the Spess Mehreen a little stronger.

An advantage that I don't think has been mentioned is the Spess Mehreens obvious xenophobia. While in a 1v1 situation this will have little effect

Lascannon vs Spartan Laser seems to be a common argument. The spartan laser is a lightwieght easily portable anti-tank weapon that even marines and ODSTs can carry and use with ease. The Lascannon is a large cumbersome heavy weapon that requires a large 'battery' to use and due to it's huge size cannot be carried by a single Guardsman, and has to be specially accommodated (with a special backpack) for a Spess Mehreen to be able to use. Personally I'd rather the portable fuck-everything-up-laser, to the larger one, even if it has a 3 second charge and isn't as powerful (and who says the lascannon doesn't need to charge before firing? Is there a novel in which a lascannon is described? Is there a delay before it fires?). It's not really obvious which of the two are more powerful and is impossible to tell. I'd say there both are in the same league (Lascannon's probably a bit stronger).

In conclusion, this argument is like comparing LotR to WHFB. Both have vague similarities, but at the end of the day one focuses on being 'over-the-top' while the other takes a (relatively) more realistic approach. (Or trying to predict who'd win at soccer between The West Coast Eagles and The Western Force. For all you Aussies.)


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## delonemonkey (Oct 16, 2008)

You have brought up some really good arguments, thanks. 

I have to say i could re write that with some other points taken to account for the spartans. I think it was hard for me to come up with a one on one scenario that ended quickly, mostly because i dont think a spartan would get himself into that position. 

Also, space marines don't need AI inside their suits to help them. They have all types of scanners and what not built in to both their bodys and their suits. Their reflexes are outstandingly fast. There are many tellings from imperial guards point of view, that when they see space marines fight they see them switch from one target to the next with scary speed. They can draw their gun and shoot you three times before you realise he has even moved. 

They also dont need to hide much from gun fire, they run into the stuff. Sure hits are scored from bald guy headshots and weak armor areas, but for the most part you need something heavy to take them down. 

I bet the gauss cannon from halo would do the trick, as it is a rail gun. 

And for the las cannon/spartan laser, I dont think it needs to charge up immideatly before firing. Maybe when you reload you might have to wait, but every book i have read has las cannons instantly firing with a BBZURPPP and melting the whole target. I think the spartan laser is more of a SHPEW and just puts a hole into the target and completley melts the inside of the target, like on a tank or something. Not that that really makes a difference, i bet it could take out imperial tanks, walkers and marines. And i would also take one over a las cannon, because id be able to walk around with it. (but if i was a spess mareehn i could wave it around like a bolter)

Of course i am only assuming the las cannon is more powerful because look at all the other things in 40k, they require a rediculous ammount of energy. And if the halo dudes had that kind of power supply, then they would have more powerful sheilds and gear. The imperium also has things that are way above the las cannon.


ANd i also agree with the last thing you said. 40k universe is way over the top compared to Halo. Halo takes a more realistic approach at power armor and advanced weapons. (which does not hold up good for them at all in this fight lol)

Debating about these things is purely for fun. No side can win in the end.


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## coalheartly (Jul 24, 2009)

tl;dr, but i must bring up a point...what about Cortana, and the other advanced AI?


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## LordLucan (Dec 9, 2009)

Raptors8th said:


> Wtf? They're _nothing_ alike. One is basically Gandalf in space while the other is some kamikaze dishonored alien in shiny armour. If it got to an actual fight Thel 'Vadamee would tear Eldrad to shreds but the fight would never happen because Eldrad would see the possibility of the fight and manipulate the strands of fate so that Thel ended getting kicked to death by a kangaroo alone in Australia.


Eldrad is the 40K Gandalf? Cool. You do relaise Gandalf is one of the most powerful characters in Lord of the Rings right? He fought and killed a thirty foot demon on his own.





> Yay. Someone who isn't just saying Spesss Muhreens will win.


Boo, some one who says space marines won't win! 





> Same as the first one, wtf? None of these are at all comparable except the drones and vespid. Jackals are snipers while kroot are thugs,


Kroot are thugs? No, Kroot are skilled forest warriors, who are exceedingly professional. Also, the Kroot gain the strength of their foes from eating them. So, the kroot are in fact excellent warriors. They're almost as strong as a space marine incidentallly.



> elites are strong wariors who place too much value on honor while eldar are just space elves, and the last one is already going on in another thread.


Yes, Eldar are space elves. How does that make them inferior to elites? Strength is meaningless in a battle agaisnt eldar.


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## delonemonkey (Oct 16, 2008)

Honestly, i dont think your videos prove very much at all, if anything. Unless chief is using covenant or heavy weapons hes screwed.

I would be willing to bet those howling banshees are as fast and tough as spartans. Spartans can do those fast acrobatics, but they dont have any thing that can puncture the space marines armor. What good is jumping over and spinning over him when your bullets just bounce off? 

And when the elites charged them in the second video, if those were space marines charging them, they would have been killed if they stood there. They would of had to move out of the way of bolter fire, and then unless they were all armed with rocket launchers and a gattling gun they would have a chance. 

You would not be able to chip a space marines paint with those weapons, i dont care how many spinning backflips you can do in your power armor.

and the first video, i would absolutely LOVE to see a video of master chief jumping into a group of space marines.


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## LordLucan (Dec 9, 2009)

Raptor: Gandalf isn't an old man. He's a demi-god wearing a human suit (according to Tolkien's background)


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

delonemonkey said:


> Honestly, i dont think your videos prove very much at all, if anything.


actually they prove several things.
1: master chief can run and jump on sand.
2: that there is an obvious thick layer of fanboism.
3: spartans can kill enemies with close combat weapons at range if there coming down a narrow corridor.
4: that the SGT's from the Halo series can still kick a spartans ass and a marines ass and an elites ass at the same time, without the need of fancy weapons, just initiative.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> Gandalf isn't an old man. He's a demi-god wearing a human suit (according to Tolkien's background)


He is. He appeared to combat the return of Sauron by the Gods in the early Third Age, as after the First age the Gods wished not to involve themselves in the affairs of mortals.


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## LordLucan (Dec 9, 2009)

The Istari are Mair spirits in the guise of old men bobss. There were five of them.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Spartans? Spess Mehreens? Gandalf? All this thread needs is Vader and Spock and it's a top 5 list for 'things that give nerds stiffys'.


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## LordLucan (Dec 9, 2009)

Raptors8th said:


> okay, got more stuff just to show all of you why Spartans win.
> This:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGMiEWkp-1Y
> 
> ...


Rather selective in your choice of videos there though.

I see you Halo vids, and raise you this:


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Raptors8th said:


> Of course if it wasn't that video then I just wasted my time.


Which you did; the video LordLucan posted was the one for the upcoming game: space marine; where you play as one of four space marines sent to stop an ork invasion of a forgeworld.

So far, from what anyone can be told, these are four normal marines, not a single one is a captain or anything. (I'm personally of the opinion that it would be very cool if it was a captain and his understrength command squad who are the only ones available at this time.)


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## LordLucan (Dec 9, 2009)

darkreever is correct.

EDIT: Incidentally, orks are NOT slow and clunky. The video I posted, and one of th eones you posted shows this extremely well. Orks are superhumanly strong and powerful. Orks ARE supersoldiers themselves(bred by the Old Ones to defend their planets).


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## delonemonkey (Oct 16, 2008)

No one has responed to these points yet:

- a spartan is incredibly nimble and capable of all sorts of acrobatics in their armor, but the weapons they would normally be equipped with will have very little or no effect on a marine. Not fanboyism, its true. Read some 40k novels and some halo novels, and you will see that space marines are created to fight things much tougher than humans.

-Unless the spartans are armed with heavy weapons or alien weapons, they have little to no chance. Why? Because a space marine needs to be put down fast, or hes going to put you down. And space marines are far from slow and clunky. They can draw their gun and shoot you 3 times before you register anything has happened. 


aand ill say it again just because : those videos of the cheif show him fighting oponents that are no where near the same as space marines. Running up to a marine and doing a backflip over him, or charging into a group of them would be a horrible mistake for the cheif. They would have to have vastly different tactics while fighting marines, and unless they had a power sword or something similar, getting in close and doing those fancy moves would be a very bad mistake. 

Also raptors8, do you not realise that a spartan is basically a marines great X 10000 grandfather? 

Nothing about them is superior to technology availible in the 40k universe. Which is why i think that since they are superior to normal humans, and normal humans can sometimes take out marines, I think they would have a fair chance. 

But the battle starts off one sided in the marines favor. The spartans would have to use hit and run tactics to the extreme, just like a normal human fighting a marine. (they would probably be way better at it than a normal human, but still they have little hope of facing a marine directly and winning)

The only thing they have in favor for them is ability to dodge marines weapons, and take more fire than a normal armored human would be able to. Thats it.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

delonemonkey said:


> A Spartan is incredibly nimble and capable of all sorts of acrobatics in their armor, but the weapons they would normally be equipped with will have very little or no effect on a marine. Not fanboyism, its true. Read some 40k novels and some Halo novels, and you will see that space marines are created to fight things much tougher than humans.


Then how do lasguns, Tyranid bioweapons and Grot blasters which have very poor AP manage to get past their armour? Their armour is very effective, but it is by no means invulnerable.



delonemonkey said:


> They can draw their gun and shoot you 3 times before you register anything has happened.


Proof?


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

I'm sorry to say it delonemonkey but it sounds like some of what you say is not much more than fanboyism opposite to what Raptors8th's might be.

Though I do agree with ChaosRedCorsairLord in regards to if you have any proof regarding the marine able to shoot a person three times before you can register what happened. I have no doubt in my mind, a space marine armed with a bolter, with that bolter in his hands, is more than able to fire a burst into you before you can register the movement, but that is because the reflex's of a space marine are far greater than those of a normal human.

A spartan also has increased reflex's, and your point has less validity against them because as has been said before (in fact many of the things you bring up in your post have been brought up before earlier in this thread) a space marine and spartan are comparatively about the same in regards to reflex speed.


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## jesse (Sep 29, 2008)

here's how i personally think we could settle this.

take all of the still living spartans, and still living space marines and have them fight.

whoever isn't dead is better.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

darkreever said:


> A spartan also has increased reflex's, and your point has less validity against them because as has been said before (in fact many of the things you bring up in your post have been brought up before earlier in this thread) a space marine and spartan are comparatively about the same in regards to reflex speed.


I think the Spartan would probably have faster reflexes. I can't remember off the top of my head, but they get some kind of nerve/brain graft that greatly increases their reflexes. Plus with an AI present in their MJOLNIR armour, their reflexes are almost instantaneous. 

Do Space Marines get some kind of reflex implant/upgrade too? Or are they just well trained?


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Space marines get their overall senses boosted, the ability to hear something coming sooner and better would allow them to react faster. (Using hearing as just one example.) So its amongst their augmentations and implants, likely not derived from any single one but more from the effects of several.

But in regards to both space marines in spartans, that training comes down to honing the relfex's.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Info from Halopedia (Original Source: Halo Reach Novel):
"Superconducting Fibrification of Neural Dendrites
Description: Alteration of bioeletrical nerve transduction to shielded electronic transduction. *300% increase in subject reflexes.* Anecdotal evidence of marked increase in intelligence, memory, and creativity.
Risk(s): Significant instances of Parkinson's disease and Fletcher's syndrome."


Based on the above I'd say the Spartans have faster reflexes. Also I wouldn't say stronger (more sensitive) senses would affect reflexes. Maybe if the nerve response was faster, a smaller delay between receiving the external stimuli and reacting to it would be observed.


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## LordLucan (Dec 9, 2009)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Then how do lasguns, Tyranid bioweapons and Grot blasters which have very poor AP manage to get past their armour? Their armour is very effective, but it is by no means invulnerable.


I tohught we weren't using TT rules to decide who is better in the fluff (ie, the background). Lasguns find it very difficult to penetrate marine armour in most fluff instances. Tyranid bio weapons are living ammunition, that seeks out weak points in the armour (ie, borer beetles crawl across a body to find a way inside the armour).

Of course the SM armour isn't invulnerable. No armour is.


EDIT: I thought occurs to me. The Spartan side and SM side respectively don't seem to know very much details about each other's forces. Perhaps both sides should research each side more fully, shall we?


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## Exitus_10 (Jul 14, 2008)

I think we all loose for just looking at this.


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## Fungus (Jul 17, 2009)

space marine armour is not invincible to *ALL* small arms fire and extremely resistant to those that could. OH and for those of you who still think that the spartans could beat a marine how about we put them up against the marine elite, Terminators, lets start simply, immune to:
1. All small arms fire
2. plasma weapons ( after all they are made to go into plasma generators)
they also have:
1. shielding that can deflect even a spartan laser.
2. armor that can save you from being crushed by a titan.
So, if you think a spartan can stand up to that then lets hear your proof for it, IM WAITIN...:spiteful:


(and yea i agree with exitus_10, we all lose)


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Termi armour is also extremely cumbersome and restricting. No armour is immune to small arms fire, joints, eyes, power cables and vents/grills are all weaknesses. As for being stepped on by a titan; that was one story, and he was most likely under a depression/joint in the foot. You can't honestly tell me that termi armour, even though it is extremely strong, could hold up hundreds of tons pressing down on it.


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## jesse (Sep 29, 2008)

*the Madnes! When Will It End???!*


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