# Latest Marine Info Compilation - BoLS



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Heres the latest Marine rumours compilation from *The Bell of Lost Souls*

Exciting times - at least for my fellow Marine players!! :wink:

*HQ*

*Chapter Master*
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv3+
- May take a Relic blade and Storm Shield.
- May take Artificer Armour.
- Has around 20 Options
- May take Terminator armour, Jump Pack or a Bike
- Gives a one shot Orbital Strike which is S10 Ap1.
- Has a Bolter, may upgrade to Storm Bolter, Combi Plasma, Combi Melta, Combi Grenade Launcher
- May replace Bolt pistol and CCW for pair of Lightning Claws or a Relic Blade

*Captain*
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv 3+
- May take a Relic blade and Storm Shield.
- If he takes a bike, Bikes may be taken as Troops
- Much the same options as above, does not have the orbital strike.

*Chaplain*
- Ws5 Bs4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv3+
- Price is about the same.
- Comes with Crozius and Rosarius
- Still allows rerolls to hit.
- Makes unit with him Fearless
- Can replace his bolter with storm, combi-, powerfist, plasma pistol.
- When taking terminator armour he replaces “power armour, boltgun, frag and krak grenades for Terminator armour and” one shooting weapon.

*Librarian*
- Ws5 Bs4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv3+
- Has gotten cheaper.
- Comes with Force weapon and Psychic Hood
- May have 2 powers.
- May be upgraded to an Epistolary which allows the use of two powers a turn. Apparently this is expensive.
- Psychic hood now has a range of 24" (whether it means that the power is within 24", or the Psyker I dont know)
- 9 powers:
Avenger - essentially an AP3 heavy flamer,
Force Dome - 5+ invulnerable for Librarian and squad until end of next player turn,
Gate of Infinity - Librarian and squad Deep Strike back within 24", but with minor risk...,
Machine Curse - shooting attack causing Glancing Hit on 1 vehicle within 24",
Might of the Ancients - Librarian gains strength 6 and rolls 2d6 armour penetration.
Null Zone - all enemy units within 24" re-roll successul invulnerable saves for rest of player turn ,
Smite - 12" range, assault 4 St4 AP2,
Quickening - gains Fleet and Ini.10,
Vortex of Doom - 12" St10 AP1 Heavy1 Blast...failed test = blast centred on Librarian without scatter.

*Master of the Forge*
- Ws4 Bs5 S4 T4 W2 In4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+
- Comes with Servo Harness
- Has Conversion beamer which gets stronger and more powerful the further away he is firing, in three stages. Maxes out at S10 Ap1 Large blast at 72"
- Allows Dreadnaughts to be taken as Elites AND heavy support if he is there.

*Honour Guard (?-10)*
- Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+ 30+ points as standard.
- Can only be taken if a Chapter Master is present in the army.
- Artificer Armour and power weapon as standard.
- Can take Relic Blades which are a two handed power weapon that gives St6.
- Can take Aux. Grenade launchers.
- One may take a Chapter Standard which, if it still has the same rules as now, gives them Counter attack.
- They may take a Chapter Champion, Champion is WS 5.
- Chapter Champion must direct attacks against enemy Independant characters if he can.
- May NOT take Storm Shields.

*Command Squad:*
- May only be taken by captains.
- 4 vets and 1 apothecary, Company Champion is an optional upgrade for one model.
- Chainsword and either bolter or pistol as standard.
- They can have bikes.
- Any can replace pistol or sword with: Storm Bolter, Flamer, Plasma gun, Meltagun, Combi-whatever, power sword or fist, lightning claw, thunder hammer.
- Pistol can be replaced with Plasma Pistol.
- Melta bombs and Storm Shields can be taken by anyone.
- Apothecary gives the unit Feel no pain
- One may take a Company Standard which, if it still has the same rules as now, gives them Counter attack.

*Kor’Sarro Khan, Captain of the White Scars 3rd Company*
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In5 At3 Ld10 Sv3+
- Gives models in his unit hit and run and Furious Charge.
- Moondrakkan is a bike he may take. It’s a bike which can use the Run ability and can also Fleet
- Moonfang- A Power sword. Any 6’s on the to wound roll become Instant Death.
- May exchange Chapter Tactics for Outflank.

*Kayvaan Shrike*
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In5 At3 Ld10 Sv3+
- Jump pack, Iron Halo and master crafted rending lightning claws.
- May exchange Chapter Tactics for Fleet.
- He has Infiltrate and gives it to his unit.

*Pedro Cantor*
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W4 In5 At4 Ld10 Sv2+
- Storm Bolter (Assault 4 and AP 4) and Powerfist
- Sternguard in his army count as Scoring units
- May exchange Chapter Tactics for Stubborn.
- All friendly units within 12” receive +1 attack.

*Marneus Calgar*
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W4 In5 At4 Ld10 Sv2+
- Can be fielded in either power armour or terminator armour. Has an Iron Halo with either.
- 2 Powerfists and a Stormbolter (Assault 4 AP 2)
- He has a power weapon which he is allowed to use (only when in artificer Armour?)
- Eternal warrior.
- His Chapter Tactics allows his army to choose to pass or fail any Ld tests.
- May reroll any failed to wound rolls in both shooting and hand to hand.
- May take 3 squads of Honour Guard, if they are all 10 man. These do not take up FOC slots.

*Chaplain Cassius*
- Ws5 Bs4 S4 T6(!) W2 In5 At3 Ld10 Sv 3+
- Feel No pain
- New background.

*Chief Librarian Tigurius*
- Knows all(!) the psychic powers available to the marines.
- May use 3 powers per turn.
- Allows army to reroll any reserve rolls.

*Captain Lysander*
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In4 At4 Ld10 Sv2+
- Thunder hammer is Master Crafted and gives Lysander S10, he also adds +1 to the damage against vehicles
- Storm Shield (3+ invulnerable save for him)
- Eternal Warrior (Again?!)
- Bolter Drill- The Squad he is with is allowed to reroll misses with Bolters, bolt pistols, storm bolters and heavy bolters.
- Allows one piece of terrain to be fortified, to give +1 to its normal cover save.
- May exchange Chapter Tactics for Stubborn.

*Captain Sicarius*
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In4 At3 Ld10 Sv3+
- 1 tactical squad gets Counterattack, Infiltrate, Scout or Tank hunters for free.
- An army led by captain Sicarius may re-roll the dice when attempting to seize the initiative.
- Blister pack allows for bare head & helmet in hand or wearing helmet with plasma pistol in hand.
- His mantle gives him Feel no pain(?)
- Is able to kill a Wraithlord in one hit with his wargear(?)

*Vulkan He'stan*
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In4 At3 Ld10 Sv2+
- Chapter tactics allows all meltas and flamers to become twin linked and all Thunder hammers to become Master Crafted.
- 3+ invulnerable (GAH!)
- Heavy Flamer (which rerolls to wound)
- S6 Power weapon, Master Crafted

*Brother Chronus*
- Upgrade for a Space Marine Vehicle
- Gives it Bs5 and allows it to ignore Crew Stunned and Crew Shaken results.
- If vehicle is destroyed he can scurry away and crew another one.

*Scout Sergeant Telion*
- Upgrade for Scout Squad
- Can give his BS of 6 to another scout in the unit.
- Armed with a long range 'stalker' pattern boltgun with the pinning and rending special rules.

*Elites*

*Sternguard Veterans (5-10):*
- Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
- Come with Bolters and 4 Kinds of Specialised round
- Dragonfire bolts- Normal Bolter, Ignores cover
- Hellfire Rounds- wound on a 2+.
- Kraken bolts- 30” range, S4 Ap4 Rapid Fire
- Vengeance rounds- 18” range, S4 Ap3, Rapid Fire, Gets hot
- Can Upgrade bolters to Storm Bolters (lose the specialist rounds)
- Can take Combi weapons (keep the rounds).
- Can also take from a small list of special and Heavy Weapons (Flamers, Heavy flamers and such.)
- One of the Sternguard can take a Powerfist or Power weapon
- They may choose which round to use each turn.

*Dreadnaught:*
Just like now, also may take twin CCW's or twin autocannons.

*Venerable Dreadnaught:*
WS and BS 5, with most of the Dreadnaught's basic weapons options.

*Ironclad Dreadnaught:*
Basic Dreadnaught Stats with front and Side armour 13.
- Probably comes with a Heavy Flamer rather than a Storm Bolter
- Can take a Hunter Killer
- Has Move through Cover.

*Terminators(5-10)*
- Basic Terminators just like now.
- Cyclone Now Heavy 2
- 1 Heavy weapon, 2nd may be purchased if squad has 10 models.

*Assault Terminators(5-10)*- As now.

*Techmarine*
- Comes with a 2+ save.
- Allows one piece of Cover in his deployment zone become +1 to its cover save.
- Still has servitors. May choose to leave them.

*Legion of the Damned*- WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv 3+ invulnerable
- Their Sergeant has Ws5
- They always Deep Strike, but reroll scatter if they want.


*Troops*

*Tactical Marines(5-10):*
- Start at 4 marines and a sarge for 90 points, full squad is 165.
- Sergeant is included in cost, may take powerfist, storm bolter, combi-bolter.
- Variable squad sizes are possible.
- Special and Heavy weapons are unavailable unless there are 10 marines in the unit, but then they get free Flamer and a free Multimelta or Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher. Meltagun- 5 points, Plasmagun 10, Lascannon- 10, Plasma cannon- 5
- Bolter, Polt Pistol, Frag and Krak grenades as standard. (NB: they do NOT have a CCW)
- Sarge can take Power weapon, Power Fist, Lightning Claw, Plasma Pistol, Storm Bolter, Combi Flamer, Combi Plasma, Combi Melta (and maybe combi grenade Launcher)

*Scouts*
- Ws3 Bs3 S4 T4 W1 In4 A1 Ld8 Sv4+
- Sergeant is WS4, BS4.
- Sergeant may take combi-weapon, plasma pistol, power weapon or powerfist.
- Shotguns probably S4
- May be an option for Teleport Homers.
- Their Heavy bolter can take hellfire Rounds
- Squads can be equipped with camo cloaks, granting the Stealth USR.

*Bikes*
- Requires a Captain on a bike.
- Requires 5+ bikes. For details of bikes see Fast Attack options.

*Rhino:*
- Probably will drop to 35 points ala Dark Angels and Blood Angels.

*Razorback:*- Comes with heavy bolter included in cost.
- May upgrade to: twin-linked heavy flamer, twin-linked assault cannon, twin-linked lascannon, lascannon and twin-linked plasmagun.

*Drop Pod:*- Drop pod assault means that Half of all Drop pods come in on the First turn (GW doesnt want Deep striking armies to come on turn 2 or later...understandable)
- Drop pods in the first wave can act as guiding beacons for pods in the Second wave.
- Costed at slightly more than 2 marines.
- Holds 12 marines or 6 terminators or 1 Dreadnought or 1 thunderfire cannon.

*Fast Attack*

*Bikes (3-8+trike):*-May combat squad, requires 8 bikes plus an attack bike. Divides into 4B/4B+1AB.

*Attack Bikes (1-3):*- Must pay for Multi-Melta.

*Scout Bikes (3-10):*
- Can upgrade bike with a grenade launcher
- Can booby trap areas of terrain with hazardous cluster mines.
- Sergeants can be equipped with locater beacons. These function as a teleport homer for any deep-striking unit (drop pods, jum packs etc.)

*Assault Marines (5-10):*
- Sergeant may take a Storm Shield or combat shield.
- Only sergeant may have melta-bombs.
- Special weapons are 1 for every 5 models
- Specials include flamers and plasma pistols.
- May remove jump packs and get a free rhino or drop pod in return.

*Vanguard Veterans (5-10):*- Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
- Sergeant may take a Relic blade and Storm Shield.
- Come with Bolt Pistol and Close Combat weapon, can all take from a bunch of upgrades including: Power weapons, Power fists, Lightning claw (yes, one)
- Probably have an option to take Bolters
- May also take Combat shields and storm shields.
- Jump packs are an upgrade which gives them the Heroic Intervention rule. May take a transport instead.
- Heroic Intervention allows them to assault the turn they Deep strike.

*Land Speeders (1-3):*
Pretty much as now.
- Typhoon missile launchers fire as Heavy 2 missile launchers.

*Land Speeder Storm:*
- Has a Jammer which disrupts deep striking close by.
- Scouts charging from it -2 from the enemy Ld.
- Carries 5 scouts (and scouts only) and counts as Open Topped

*Heavy Support*

*Thunderfire Cannon*- Has techmarine crew.
- Can fire in 3 different ways (all heavy 4): St 6 AP5 blast, St 5 AP6 blast ignores cover, St 4 AP- blast causes difficult terrain test in next turn/dangerous terrain for vehicles(inc. skimmers)
- May be mounted in a Drop Pod.
- Techmarine attendant can bolster defences, providing a 1 point bonus to the cover save of a single ruin in the Space Marine deployment area.

*Predator:*
Pretty much how it is in Codex: Blood Angels (i.e. expensive)

*Vindicator:*
- Siege Shield allows it to auto-pass terrain tests.

*Devastator:*
- Sergeant has a Signum, allows one Marine to fire at BS 5.

*Whirlwind:*
- Has BA/DA style ammo. (Including incendiary?)

*Land Raider*- Machine spirit allows an extra weapon than allowed to be shot at any available target.
- Multi Melta is now a pintle option for all variants.
- Can Carry 12 models

*Land Raider Crusader*
- Machine spirit as above
- Frag Launchers as normal (useful too, now.)
- can carry 16 Models

*Land Raider Redeemer*- Machine Spirit as normal
- Redeemer cannon: Range- Template S6 Ap3 Heavy 1
- Transport Capacity: 12 models


Not unit specific:
Decision to split in to combat squads is made at the time each unit is deployed or when a unit disembarks from its Drop Pod.
Combat Tactics – allows any unit to automatically fail any Morale Check it takes (from shooting and CC).
Combat shields now give a 6+ invulnerable save.
Storm shields now give a 3+ invulnerable save.
Aux. Grenade launchers are short range, can fire in tandem with another weapon.
All sergeants are veterans now, so are just called sergeants.


----------



## Canadish (Jun 17, 2008)

Jez, arent you breaking your own forums rules here? I say we throw him overboard lads!!! :grin:

Anyway, I read these earlier. Sound bloody fantastic. I think I'll have to skip eating for a week to afford everything! :laugh:
Cant wait to try some of these bad boys out.

I'm also glad to see the traits are still alive within the HQ units, not just the special characters. The fact that all the chapters can take them is pretty neat too. I'm thinking of making a Librarian chapter master for my Blood Ravens using Tigurius's rules! :biggrin:

Regards
Canadish


----------



## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

I think since the book is yet to be released, that would make these stats rumours, not official, and no rules have been broken. If these turn out to be true, i'm sure jez will remove them when the codex is released to prevent problems.


----------



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Thats exactly right, its the only logical explanation for everyone else posting them up.

I'll monitor the situation closely and remove them as soon as BoLS do.


----------



## Judas Masias (Jun 5, 2008)

So is it now possable to take a Character such as Pedro Kantor in an Ultramarine army?:dunno:


----------



## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you could probably take him as a "counts-as" situation...correct me if I'm wrong lolz


----------



## cooldudeskillz (Jun 7, 2008)

nice to see GW's golden boys live up to thier fluff(as in the stuff their getting is awesome) maybe now the gods of chaos have real challenge


----------



## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

Arse! I'm going to have to buy marines now, the codex sounds awesome.


----------



## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

Sounds pretty cool, I just hope the BA/DA get some of this stuff...


----------



## Beaky (Dec 15, 2006)

I hope these are just rumours and aren't the actual thing, some of that stuff sounds nasty! (and very unfair, the chapter master should be like a gazillion pts and only to be used in apocalypse, while the master of the forge sounds amazing! S10 rng 72 ap1 Large Blast! That's basicly a 'plonk-down-large-template-anywhere-on-the-battlefield-kill-everything-under-it kind of thing! I'm going to come up with a similar gun for the tau Mwahahahaha!)


----------



## angels of fire (Dec 4, 2007)

You can't place it anywhere I think and it only becomes that powerful at 72 no less than that so you'll need a big board and the enemy will just move below 72 inches towards you. Anyway its all good stuff and I might start a scout army for christmas.


----------



## Hellskullz (Jul 24, 2008)

hmm....
Think i might have to drop my necron army and go space marines with all this shiny new stuff they get...


----------



## Shamrok (Feb 14, 2008)

I want sternguard veterans.. drools


----------



## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

i was worried that Cantor would be a crappy character, but now he seems pretty shiny.


----------



## Fhadhq (Jun 12, 2008)

So much new shiny toys in a usable FoC :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Seems like termie-HQ and jumppack-command are DA/BA only now.

I should really upgrade to 1000 Marines :laugh:


----------



## The_Pi (Mar 20, 2008)

[Crosses fingers] Hope GW gives DA and BA players an update.....[\Crosses fingers]


----------



## EndangeredHuman (Feb 20, 2008)

Wow, looks pretty good! But the bike requirement seems a bit high, on the verge of "Oh shit, I need to buy more crap or lsoe my precious bikes"


----------



## AzraelJahannam (Jun 28, 2008)

The BIG question for me... Can the Honour Guard have jump packs... if not it's useless to me and my army... And Blood Angels Honour guard HAS to get all of that shiny new stuff(COUGH relic blade COUGH), not to mention their Veteran Assault Marines AT LEAST as powerful as Vanguards...


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

If BA,DA andBT, even SW to a lesser extent, get none of this there will be outrage.... There are more of the seperate codex players than nillas anyway....


----------



## weasly (Jun 18, 2008)

all sounds really good. Cant wait for the new marines.


----------



## Truth Bearer (Jul 30, 2008)

Lord Reevan said:


> ... There are more of the seperate codex players than nillas anyway....


I seriously doubt this statement. A lot.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Truth Bearer said:


> I seriously doubt this statement. A lot.


This is going from a little digging of my own so wouldn't cover the entire world... Just out of 87 peole I asked only 30 were Basic marines. THe remaining 57 played BT, BA, SW and DA.... Probably a lot different in other countries though.....

Also the stats for the units in the new codex are in the back of the rulebook..... they have a lot of changes there....


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Lord Reevan said:


> This is going from a little digging of my own so wouldn't cover the entire world... Just out of 87 peole I asked only 30 were Basic marines. THe remaining 57 played BT, BA, SW and DA.... Probably a lot different in other countries though.....
> 
> Also the stats for the units in the new codex are in the back of the rulebook..... they have a lot of changes there....


unfortunately, that is only 15 per seperate dex, it is one of those way numbers can be misleading, overall, there are more players using seperate codices, individually, there are more using the standard.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

that's what I meant yeah


----------



## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

All looks fucking sweet rules, but what about Chaplain having only 2a and 2w, same as Librarian. Is there away to make them have 3


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

that's for characters I think green knight... Kind of a way to make it into characterhammer again...


----------



## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

That is a bit crap, I love having a chaplain with 3w


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

that's only going with BA atm though... might be different....


----------



## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Ok thanks for the info


----------



## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> Null Zone - all enemy units within 24" re-roll successul invulnerable saves for rest of player turn ,


Boy am I ever glad that my Thousand Sons have a way to negate that power. Oh wait, I don't. :ireful2:



> Ironclad Dreadnaught:
> Basic Dreadnaught Stats with front and Side armour 13.


And yet the much larger and daemonically possessed Defiler is still AV12 and therefore an easy kill.:nono:



> Special and Heavy weapons are unavailable unless there are 10 marines in the unit, but then they get free Flamer and a free Multimelta or Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher.


Nice, so loyalist marines get for free what I have to pay for. :good:



> Heroic Intervention allows them to assault the turn they Deep strike.


WHAT...THE...FUCK????


Chaos HAD tons of cool stuff, cheap or expensive, that we could take and GW took 98% of it from us and the rest was spread among the units themselves as standard options that you had no choice in (Furious Charge on Berzerkers ONLY now as opposed to being able to buy it for anyone for example). Yet here comes the Space Marines who are being handed a shitload of coolness (I mean hell look at that list) in the upcoming codex.

Yes, you are losing Traits, that does suck but for gods sake Land Raiders that carry MORE than the Chaos ones? Isn't it the same vehicle?? Assault units that can assault when they deep strike (no other army has this), free special and heavy weapons (unlike the ones I pay for), the ability to get a dread with AV13 (which chaos HAD and lost), 3+ Inv saves (nope, not a chance at that either), drop pods (can't even take them), etc, etc etc.

GW took the chaos codex (and Eldar as well), stripped them of nearly all their flavour and cool wargear, vet skills, etc, and gave us a dumbed down vanilla list to use. Yes I agree with others that it is competative, no doubt, but as I said, the flavour is just gone for the most part. And yet here comes the SM book that is going to do EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. "Sorry SM fans you are losing traits but here is all this cool stuff instead".

I make the best of it as I am able and I actually do like the current chaos codex despite what they did to it (mainly because my Tsons rock once again, if it were Iron Warriors or Alpha Legion I wouldn't be so charitable) but I find it very hard to swallow when GW turns around and comes out with such an utter and blatant show of favouritism. And yes, marines are 40% of their total sales, I know. Maybe that is BECAUSE of the ridiculous way in which they are given better stuff than any other army, both rules and model wise. I kept positve about the new chaos codex because the DA and BA codices led me to believe that something similar was about to happen to the SM book. Now however I am more than a little pissed off.

What a bunch of fucking bullshit.


----------



## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

quite honestly, looking at all the cool shit that CHaos can do, youve got a metric-fuckton of options.

Loyalist marines not so much, if you couldnt have a librarian or you didnt have the Baal pred, they you pretty much had nothing cool.


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Engelus said:


> quite honestly, looking at all the cool shit that CHaos can do, youve got a metric-fuckton of options.
> 
> Loyalist marines not so much, if you couldnt have a librarian or you didnt have the Baal pred, they you pretty much had nothing cool.


what chaos has, and what chaos has are not nearly the same thing.

the options chaos has arenearly the same as imperial marines, troops excepted. the reason chaos has more troops choices is because it is five codices in one, one for each of the four powers, and for undivided.

when you factor in ba, da, sw, and bt, loyalists have the same amount of options, you simply have to buy a seperate codex.

There is SOME merit to the complaints that loyalist marines are recieving too much attention. I feel the complaints are because they are the first 5e codex in the chute. I think ANY army would recieve the same complaints, for the same reason.


----------



## cameron94 (Jul 21, 2008)

Jezlad said:


> *Troops*
> 
> *Tactical Marines(5-10):*
> - Start at 4 marines and a sarge for 90 points, full squad is 165.
> ...




Hi,
I got a question.
Are you saying that the flamer, melta etc. are not included in the box or are you allowed to put the specical weapon and heavey weapon in a squad less then 10?

Because in the July (I think) issue of White Dwarf they had a game played with the new 40k rules and in the army of space marines he had 1 squad of 5 with a lascannon and another squad of 5 with a plasma gun and plasma cannon. Also, there were 2 other squads but with 8in each, 1 with a missile laucher and meltagun and the other with a missile laucher and plasmagun. 

If you need to know more about that issue, Ill be glad to help!

Cheers.
Cameron94


----------



## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Soooooooo many new things to buy..... DAMN YOU GW! Bye bye 14k of SM, hello 18k...... arses.


----------



## Alaric (Jun 10, 2008)

damn this is almost to much. and im SM player but that salamanders guy is nasssty im using him for suree. but marneus calgar OMG thats rediculous. 30 honor guards that dont count towards force organization. with str6 pwr weps and 2+ armor. im gonna make him a salamder as a counts as. make my own chapter master model nowww.


----------



## Truth Bearer (Jul 30, 2008)

With each passing day I want this new Codex more and more. Gimme!


----------



## loser for sale (Jun 12, 2008)

Great fun for those of us who play SMs, (can't wait to get using 3 powers a turn with Tigurius; combine with a Master and some Honour guard with relic blades, use Quickening, or with Vanguard and use Might of the Ancients?!) but harder when fighting them. The Vanguard are what I really fear - every Tau's worst nightmare. Orks may do well since all this cannot be cheap, though. They're probably the best-equipped race to fight this. :mrgreen:


----------



## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

Arhhh man I can't wait for the release. I can see my Serpents doubleing in size...oh well:mrgreen:. The new veteans are just simply epic. Honour guard are a must have so many tasty new unts. *Sigh* I bet it will be un-balanced compared to CSM, DA and BA.


----------



## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

New rules are fucking sweet can not wait


----------



## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

Alaric;1668marneus calgar OMG t. or. im gonna make him a salamder as a counts as. make my own chapter master model nowww.[/QUOTE said:


> >> I may be wrong, but I seriously doubt you'll be able to use4 Calgar in any army, apart from Ultra off shoots. And as Sallies are an independant legion, you're good idea probably wont be allowed. Use the model sure, but doubtful you get to use his rules.


----------



## Truth Bearer (Jul 30, 2008)

Sorry, but I guess you missed it. Marneus and all the other named characters will be usable in any codex marine army. It will be a counts-as kind of thing, as my GW manager puts it - he won't be named Marneus anymore, but he will use all the same stats and model.

I am gonna name him Bob Calgar... and Pedro Cantor? He will be Roberto Cantor... together, they will be the Bobs of DOOM.


----------



## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

> Vanguard Veterans (5-10):- Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
> - Sergeant may take a Relic blade and Storm Shield.
> - Come with Bolt Pistol and Close Combat weapon, can all take from a bunch of upgrades including: Power weapons, Power fists, *Lightning claw (yes, one)*
> - Probably have an option to take Bolters
> ...


Looks like bringing those new vets out had a reason, you can buy them and replace the backpack with a jump pack...


----------



## Dessel_Ordo (Jul 28, 2008)

... well, even if the smurf named characters DO rock, I wont use them on principle, as I hate the UIltramarines with the white-hot intensity of a million desert suns.

I really hope that the new marine dex is a preveiw of the treatment ALL of the other armies will be getting in their 5ed codex...

I agree, CSM got boned up the ass by the razor-blade lined shlong of the Ultrafags.

cant wait to get my hands on all of that new shit tho...:mrgreen:


----------



## Truth Bearer (Jul 30, 2008)

I will use them, though alot of them require quite a bit of modification. Gotta shave off all of those damn Us.


----------



## Sniper (Mar 9, 2008)

New list sounds awesome!! Chapter Master should be fun! hmm anyone know what in the warp a aux. grenade launcher is? (pardon my ignorance)

Sniper


----------



## Trigger (Mar 12, 2008)

I suspect its a bolter/grenade launcher combi weapon.


----------



## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Dessel_Ordo said:


> I agree, CSM got boned up the ass by the razor-blade lined shlong of the Ultrafags.


I thought CSM's liked that sort of thing?


----------



## Usaal (Apr 9, 2008)

We do like the sort of thing.... or is that only us Slaanesh type guys?


----------



## Vashtek (Nov 2, 2007)

I think people are over-reacting. Wait until you see how much stuff costs (points wise) before declaring the codex as overpowered.


----------



## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

I just wonder what my fellow DA players will get in our codex. not holding my breath for a new one, but dang do those new chapter masters and vets rock. all our company master gets are some good guns but nothing like that.


----------



## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Firewolf said:


> I may be wrong, but I seriously doubt you'll be able to use4 Calgar in any army, apart from Ultra off shoots. And as Sallies are an independant legion, you're good idea probably wont be allowed. Use the model sure, but doubtful you get to use his rules.


Why wouldn't he be able to use the rules if the entire army was using ultramarine rules? It's not like he's breaking any rules by doing so. In fact he is adhering strictly to GW's counts as rule.


----------



## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

Truth Bearer said:


> Sorry, but I guess you missed it. Marneus and all the other named characters will be usable in any codex marine army. It will be a counts-as kind of thing, as my GW manager puts it - he won't be named Marneus anymore, but he will use all the same stats and model.
> 
> 
> >> My bad mate, I mussta missed it. k:


----------



## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

swntzu said:


> Why wouldn't he be able to use the rules if the entire army was using ultramarine rules? It's not like he's breaking any rules by doing so. In fact he is adhering strictly to GW's counts as rule.



>> Read my post properly mate. I said apart from Ultras off shoot, meaning an army using Ultras rules. As Sallies aint an off shoot of UMs......k:


----------



## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> I think people are over-reacting. Wait until you see how much stuff costs (points wise) before declaring the codex as overpowered.


I am not calling it overpowered, I am calling in utter bullshit. In the face of the CSM, DA/BA, and Eldar codices it is nothing less than bullshit. Those other books got boned but the SM codex will come out and just give all the cool shit to the marines, as always.

The favoritism that GW shows to marines has finally begun to wear on me.


----------



## Vashtek (Nov 2, 2007)

The Wraithlord said:


> I am not calling it overpowered, I am calling in utter bullshit. In the face of the CSM, DA/BA, and Eldar codices it is nothing less than bullshit. Those other books got boned but the SM codex will come out and just give all the cool shit to the marines, as always.
> 
> The favoritism that GW shows to marines has finally begun to wear on me.


To be honest if they shove the codex full of cool (but over-costed) stuff I'd much rather play that type of army than a chaos lash army where I don't have control over my own guys or an eldar army where you have to play chase the falcon before they take all the objectives on the last turn


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

Im sure as soon as they release the 5th ed codices for the other races they will get the cool stuff equivalent to what the SM got, its just that SM got it first (as always) so be patient children (lol a 17 year old calling all these older hobbyists children :laugh


----------



## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Firewolf said:


> >> Read my post properly mate. I said apart from Ultras off shoot, meaning an army using Ultras rules. As Sallies aint an off shoot of UMs......k:


I'm not going into a quote war here but if an army is merely painted in a particular scheme and using another set of rules, there should be no problem as long as the opponent is notified before the game begins.

If your opponent wanted to be an arse about it you could just call your chapter the "green lizard marines" and have them as an ultramarine successor chapter.


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

The way the book reads, you can bring any combination of characters you want, but you only get to use one rule that replaces Combat Tactics-- and all of the named characters have something that does. There's not much point in bringing more than one, really.


----------



## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

The Son of Horus said:


> The way the book reads, you can bring any combination of characters you want, but you only get to use one rule that replaces Combat Tactics-- and all of the named characters have something that does. There's not much point in bringing more than one, really.


I was about to ask this very question. Sounds like I'll be taking Chronus is some form or another.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

He'Stan =O. Whorreeedddd


----------



## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Mmmmm.... looks like we can all agree that this is just ridiculous (especially for Space Marines....) 

But this could mean that the other codex's will get their own goodies as well. Right? RIGHT!?? :no:


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I really don't see this as "oh my god they're unbeatable good!!!" I mean all their good things are elites, and going with earlier elites of space marines they will be expensive. And you technically don't get a free heavy or special weapon as the squad in total costs more than they used to.... It's really good, but nothing overly major.... I mean all their uber squads are not troops so if people do take lots of them they will seriously hamper themselves with few troops.... to find a perfect balance between the troops and the elite stuff will be the main challenge of this army and that is the same with nearly every other army....


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Im with Lord Reevan, they are not all that much over-the-top. For example Assualt after deep strike, means you have to get close enough first, and they are an expensive squad meaning it will hurt if they scatter onto the unit they are planning on charging.


----------



## Vashtek (Nov 2, 2007)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Im with Lord Reevan, they are not all that much over-the-top. For example Assualt after deep strike, means you have to get close enough first, and they are an expensive squad meaning it will hurt if they scatter onto the unit they are planning on charging.


Nice to see people applying some perspective. Standard marines were never one of the Tier 1 armies and got alot worse with the changes in rules regarding terrain. 'Run' probably doesn't help either- they probably needed a small buff and that is probably what they'll get. I think it'll be tough to make a marine army able to deal with armour, MCs and horde (unlike say tau or eldar armies which can do all three).


----------



## Judas Masias (Jun 5, 2008)

BoLS Polls: Astartes Smackdown Edition 
Posted by bigred | Wednesday, August 27, 2008 | polls 104 Comments 

Ok guys,

Everyone else is talking about it so now its our turn. Word is Phil Kelley dropped the news in Los Angeles that much of the updated wargear and equipment changes in the new marine Codex will not be standardized across the other codices.

That means 3+ invulnerable stormshields for the boys in blue, but not the boys in red for example. While I could understand the point of not giving the Black Templars the option of 3pt upgraded stormshields for entire assault squads, it still seems strangely inconsistant across the board. Why 12 vs 10-man Land Raiders for example?

The Space Wolves apparently get off easy as their codex specifically says to refer to Codex: Space marines for much of their wargear.


----------



## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

In terms of the free heavy weapons in tac. squads. The only way I can see to legitimise this is it isn't _all_ the heavy weapons, and vanilla spoz marines won't be getting that crucial extra CCW which them Chaos spoz marines do get. In my eyes, that kinda evens it out and defines one as the shooty and one as the fighty. If you unnerstand what I'm saying?


----------



## Inquisitor Thrax (Sep 5, 2008)

I have heard a few people mention here that SM are first in this 5th edition wave but as The Wraithlord mentioned the Eldar and CSM codices are already out and not looking very balanced. Now if the points of the new SM make them less numerous in the game that would balance things but would that really be logical? I would think the CSM would be approaching one of the rarest forces in the game, one of the most veteran as well. Most of these CSM blokes are approaching 1000s of years old spent in constant battle. I was disappointed to see Veteran Skills disappear. I imagine skills and drills will disappear in the new IG codex too. I think it's a shame the Chapter traits disappeared too. I thought those factors were the best aspect of 4th edition. Why remove them? Was there a serious balance issue with the tactical edges or are they just looking to simplify things? 

The Landraider carrying capacity issue seems valid, why would a CSM LR carry less? If I'm mistaken and a NEW CSM codex is on the way that will give me back the cool 4th edition features great but if not why are we getting the more numerous, less elite, less favored treatment here? I totally agree that Marines in general should be a bit scarcer against other foes, and Chaos perhaps a bit under supplied as well, since they largely are scavenging pre-heresy gear, but I don't see any reason why they would be weaker than SMs. I'm still trying to get over the fact that about 50 Lost and Damned IG in my ranks have now become the Phased Out & F*cked! All that modelling for an army locked in eternal shadow duel with the Squats now... At least give me back Veteran Skills if not all those Daemonic attributes.


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Inquisitor Thrax said:


> Why remove them? Was there a serious balance issue with the tactical edges or are they just looking to simplify things?


Space marine traits and IG doctrines were easily abused (more often and more easily marine traits) for more power oriented armies. Those systems were introduced as both something new and to see if they worked, which they did not and so GW went in a different direction that saw/will see them removed. (That saying, the few ruining it for the many comes to mind.)


----------



## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Vashtek said:


> I think people are over-reacting. Wait until you see how much stuff costs (points wise) before declaring the codex as overpowered.


I did see the point costs. It's extremely overpowered.



darkreever said:


> Space marine traits and IG doctrines were easily abused (more often and more easily marine traits) for more power oriented armies. Those systems were introduced as both something new and to see if they worked, which they did not and so GW went in a different direction that saw/will see them removed. (That saying, the few ruining it for the many comes to mind.)


*cough*IronWarriorsTripleBasiliskAndTripleObliterators*cough*


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> *cough*IronWarriorsTripleBasiliskAndTripleObliterators*cough*


Lets not forget some of the other things that got ruined by the few, *cough*AllvyperSaimHannlistsfrom3rdedition*cough* (I had four squads of jetbikers, it was not fun converting one into shining spears because I didn't want them to go to waste..>_>


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Lord Waffles and Darkreever Both Make great points with their examples of previous advantages that are no longer legal. 

How many eldar whined when they were no longer allowed to take the ranger army of lameness? I will bet a lot whines, cried and threatened to leave the game. When codex: craftworld eldar came out, half of the players at the game shop I was playing at immediately switched to the ranger list because of the chart that the eldar player rolled on before the battle. That was a truly broken list, as it allowed the eldar player to have a free turn before the game started.

How many chaos players cried when they were told that they could no longer have three basilisks? Many, that was one of the main reasons for playing iron warriors. 

Both lists have had their beards trimmed, and some of the new options are better than the old options. Defilers, raptors and bikes with any mark are great for fluff and firepower. Eldar have a nasty wraithlord, albeit one that needs some babysitting, and is not nearly as cheap, but it has some nice options.


This is about balance, and 4e saw a lot of goodies given to non-marine armies, and Space marines lost a lot of power, and chapter traits did not resolve the issue, as it only unbalanced the space marines further.


----------



## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Son of mortarion said:


> How many chaos players cried when they were told that they could no longer have three basilisks? Many, that was one of the main reasons for playing iron warriors.


Yeah nobody but iron cheesewarriors cared about losing that...but than they took our legions. The heart and soul of many an army was being able to be devoted to one of the original nine, or an offshoot thereof.
Than they took our veteran skills. All of our veteran skills.
Took out the MILLIONS of fluff-tastic options we could take on our champs and lords.
Took out our retinues. Really? Was this -really- necessary?
Made choosing our hq a no-brainer *cough*daemonprince*cough*
Oh, and their was the whole "Let's make possessed worse, AND more expensive!"
Than our sorcerors dedicated to the ELDER GOD OF SORCERY started failing psychic tests.
And we got a ten point discount on our defective, useless dreadnoughts. That can no longer take the one upgrade that made them worthwhile(Daemonic possession)
Oh and that entire fiasco about the "lesser generic daemon" thing. Yeah. Not a good way to make friends GW.

It seemed like a crappy, but playable, 4th edition codex, and it was actually alright to game with(competitive tournaments still saw us out the door on a regular basis) but it was a decent codex for being full of nerf and ass.

Than the orks got an updated codex that kicked ours in the face. And fifth edition rolled around. Tzeentch boiz left the field for good with their ap3 bolters and 4+ invul save almost meaning nothing. We still don't have any effective way to stop psykers. And the daemonhunter codex RIPS us apart with ease.



Son of mortarion said:


> Defilers, raptors and bikes with any mark are great for fluff and firepower.


Bikes are horrible compared to raptors. And we don't get 'marks' we get 'icons'. Icons bestow a 'temporary' mark. Why they had this happen, I have no idea. Or why such a losable thing is so damn expensive.

And defilers are a rare sight outside of khorne lists. They're just too big for av12 to protect them.


And honestly? Yes. Chaos needed some trimming for iron warriors and obliterators. But they took an orbital bombardment to heart surgery.


But to get back on topic, anyone else making just space marine armies now? Half my gaming group converted.


----------



## gwmaniac (Sep 1, 2008)

yeah, ive read the codex before. the only reason why its ~150 pages is because every freakin page has a half page story of each unit. i dont need that! i just want to play, not learn the story or anything. so basically if they just put in the stuff that's important, then the codex would probably be the same size of the 4th edition codex. another gw excuse to make their codex expensive: unneeded size

just my opinion


----------



## Mighty (Jun 8, 2008)

I'm glad that every unit has a bunch of background to it, I love reading about the background so it seems worth it to me. I guess it's just perspective. :dunno:


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I'm pretty pissed off about the whole codex after seeing it. I know I was saying it's not that bad but it seriously is terrible. They take all the good things from other armies and codices and put it all in without taking anything away. Before WS6 was a BA only thing to make them out to be the best assault chapter out there and Mephiston had high toughness to him being given part og sanguinius's power, chaos then had it for Being given gifts by their gods. Nilla marines get alll that crap for nothing and It's bull.


----------



## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

LordWaffles said:


> Yeah nobody but iron cheesewarriors cared about losing that...but than they took our legions. The heart and soul of many an army was being able to be devoted to one of the original nine, or an offshoot thereof.
> Than they took our veteran skills. All of our veteran skills.
> Took out the MILLIONS of fluff-tastic options we could take on our champs and lords.
> Took out our retinues. Really? Was this -really- necessary?
> ...


This post could not sum up my feelings on the new marine codex any better than if I had written it myself. I agree with Waffles 150% on this and this is why I am rather bitter at the new Marine codex. Thanks GW, take all my best shit away and dumb down my codex and then turn around and just hand Marines everything they could ask for uke:


----------

