# Are C'tan strongest entity?



## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Are C'tan strongest entity? I mean chaos Gods would be consider the strongest but they don't really come into the material world. Or would that be aswarm lord that might be consider the strongest. How would a primarch pre-heresy rank?

I have it this way.
1. C'tan
2. Demon prince or blood thirster tied with Primarch
3. Avater
3. swarmlord ???
4. Necron Lord tied with Phoenix Lord?? 
5. Space marine chapter master ..


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## Septok (Jan 21, 2012)

Well, given that C'tan are shards of gods, it's likely that the most powerful entity that exists out of the Immaterium is a C'tan Shard. Avatars of Khaine are likely up high with them, but it's likely a C'tan is stronger - there are so many more shards of C'tan than Khaine. Of course, the Void Dragon may still be about somewhere, giving everyone a cause for concern.

Technically, Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons vary in ranking. Some are more powerful than others, and they could be among the most powerful - though they can rarely stay in the Materium. Besides, it's not just the Bloodthirsters - other Greater Daemons are just as powerful, just in different ways. 

As for Necron Lords and Chapter Masters, push them way down. They're nowhere near as powerful as some things here. Most Tyranid MCs could eat one for breakfast (though digestion could be an issue, you don't see many Tyrants eating Warscythes), so they aren't as powerful. The Swarmlord is definitely high on the list, and it's getting stronger with every encounter. It could easily be near the top.

Finally, Primarchs. I'm no expert, but they're strong. The Daemon Primarchs likely far outstrip their mortal brethren and they are pretty beastly themselves.

My list would go:
0-(Insane level) The Void Dragon (he's a god)/Hive Mind (oh hell, I went there)
1-C'tan/Avatars of Khaine/Daemon Primarchs
2-Stronger Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons (on account of their banishability)
3-Primarchs
4-Swarmlord (though not for long)
5-Most special characters - Abaddon, Papa Smurf, Phoenix Lords, Vect, etc.


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## SonofMalice (Feb 5, 2012)

In terms of power in the physical universe I would say it would be the Emperor (he did beat the void dragon sharded or not), C'tan, Daemon Primarch or special daemon like An'graath, Primarch, Greater Daemons, Eldar Avatar, daemon princes and Swarmlord (on much the same level really), and then the rest much as you suggest.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

A c'tan shard is the single most powerful entity that can exist, possessing the near unlimited power of the physical universe. However due to the damage inflicted upon them by the sharding process, their awareness is vastly reduced. Their memories are incomplete and most of them do not recall the full scope of their own abilities, thus apparently limiting their threat. 

The Emperor, and other entities that utilize the warp will always be difficult to compare because generally it's a completely different kind of power.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

I concur with Serpion on this. I'm surprised the Eldar Wraithlords didn't make anyone's list. They are at least as powerful as an Avatar. Of course, needing a Warlock handler is their weakness.

And of course, the question of power can always fall to the wargear available. A Necron Phaeron is already physically stronger than many Chapter Masters but armed with a Warscythe, he can match weaker Daemon Princes. And it really doesn't matter how powerful you are when the Imperium can declare Exterminatus on the planet you are on.



Woohoo! Post 1000!!!


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## Lord Commander Solus (Jul 26, 2012)

The original C'tan were quite easily the most powerful beings in the universe. They defeated the Old Ones, who essentially created life as the 40k universe knows it. If they were de-sharded, they could defeat the Imperium, the Tyranids, the Orks, the Eldar, the Tau... everybody really.

With unlimited physical power, they could manifest a disease that wipes out the Tyranids. They could destroy every single Ork world by throwing black holes at them. They could destroy the Imperium by obliterating Terra (and the Astronomican) and then watching events unfold.

If they killed everything else, they'd also kill Chaos by starving them.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Archon Dan said:


> And of course, the question of power can always fall to the wargear available. A Necron Phaeron is already physically stronger than many Chapter Masters but armed with a Warscythe, he can match weaker Daemon Princes.


Also worth noting are the myriad of other technologies at his disposal, many of which mimic (to a lesser extent) the powers of their former gods. Being able to summon vicious storms, creating an artificial night and manipulating timeflow to suit their own ends are just a few abilities they've demonstrated in numerous sources. Added to which most of them are cunning schemers and powerful warriors from a time when war was first waged. They have been around for a long time and know much, though it has to be mentioned that a lot have also diminished sanity and cognitive faculties. 



Lord Commander Solus said:


> If they killed everything else, they'd also kill Chaos by starving them.


Killing everything has never been the C'tan's goal.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

THe necrons have the technology to seal off the warp anyway with null fields, remember? Just those projects were forgotten and abandoned when the Necrons rebelled.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

It sort of depends what kind of 'strength' you're looking at. 

The C'tan have the ability to manipulate or bend the laws of reality to a degree no one else even approaches, but the servants of Chaos and psykers can literally re-write those laws (at least temporarily). Which ability is stronger?

In my opinion the C'tan Shards lack the coherency to be properly ranked. They have the power to dominate anything they could face, but will they remember to use it? The Emperor has clearly and provably bested one, but was that because he's stronger or simply because the C'tan didn't know what was going on? Was the Emperor's ability to attack when it was unready a show of ability (and thus 'strength') or luck? On a good day I doubt there is much that could stand up to a C'tan Shard but on a bad day I think a Marine Captain could show one a hard time.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

Okay before the sharding fluff we would have said in the Materium it was an easy C'tan win with the Void Dragon at the top of the list. After?

0. The GW writers- They who have given us the Shards storyline turning Material universe deities into literal shadows of their former selves. They who have turned the Terminator like Necrons into beings that compromise and have personalities and feelings. They who have made it possible for a Grey Knight to no only beat but also own a DAEMON PRIMARCH by stenciling his previoulsy bosses name into the Primarchs heart. That would lead me to the....

The Old Ones- In the new fluff the C'tan had to get help from the Necrons to defeat the Old Ones. Wasn't the story originally but hey who cares right?

Emperor/Chaos Gods/Hive Mind- I would have said that the Star Gods were in this category originally but hey shit happens. When the Heresy ends and we have the complete story of what the Emperor's ultimate plan was and if it worked. Then I'll decide who got who really in the end in the Heresy. The Hive Mind is well......it's up there. I see it as the material replacement for the star gods. 

1. Void Dragon- Sharded (lol, if you know what that means you'll laugh) or not he's still the top spot. Followed by the Outsider who's in a galactic dyson spere. Why am I saying this list in this order? The prison defines the power. All other C'tan Shards follow. 

2. Swarmlord- The manifestation of the Hive mind has got to be up there higher. I'm thinking about weaknesses here. The Swarm Lord needs to be defeated personally. His army can't be banished in the blink of an eye, it has to be destroyed. He himself can't be banished for a century. He doesn't need an intricate summoning ritual to come back. In terms of pure threat and the fact it's getting stronger and stronger I'd say his power has to be on the level. I'm up for this being argued however this is my opinion.

2.Greater Daemons/Primarchs- Guys like Lorgar have beaten Angraath but generally it depends on the writer. The whole, they get weaker in the physical universe now based on time and certain condition deteriorating makes them below the first two. I know, you'll say what about Angron or Magnus, but I'm sorry they both were not properly "beaten" like the Swarmlord and the Shards were. In that I mean, no one actually "kicked" Angron's ass. He was banished back to the warp. Magnus had a spear thrown in his eye that was made by the Emperor. Failing that he would have killed all the Space Wolves around in one on one combat. The only guy to really kick a primarchs ass is Kaldor Draigo. For Greater Daemons it's the same thing. The only guy to really handle a top level right hand of a god was Hector Rex stomping Angraath. We've had chapter masters and inquisitors do the same with Greater Daemons as well. Again this is debatable.

3. Primarchs(if they decide to come back)

4. Abbaddon/Sanguinor/Deadeye776

5. Chapter master/Ordo Malleus Inquistor/Daemons/Alpha psykers


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I think C'tan fluff is a bit hard to figure out. Many of the shards have been starved while in sleeping. So to me, it seems that C'tan shards are easier to destroy than they normally would. So far, the shards do not seem to have absorbed enough energy to be a fraction of what they could be. This could be because they have forgotten how to sustain themselves.

I would say Chaos will always be stronger than the C'tan. The Chaos Gods are a thirsty beast whose thirst for more will never be quenched and they can never be understood.


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## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

The Night Bringer almost died when he woke up with Uriel of the Ultra Marines. Since they are now shards, I would say that they are extremely unfavorable. 

I would say they are creatures capable of having unlimited power, depending on how much energy they *individually* are able to absorb. Again, that energy doesn't seem to last forever due to the fact they must continue to absorb energy. 

Chaos to some extent also have a form of energy in the emotions being caught in the warp. But that is a form of energy that just simply cannot be prevented.


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## Sangriento (Dec 1, 2010)

Afaik the outsider is unsharded so that would make him the single most powerful entity.on the galaxy


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> The Night Bringer almost died when he woke up with Uriel of the Ultra Marines. Since they are now shards, I would say that they are extremely unfavorable.


I never understood this personally. Ventris threatened to bury the Nightbringer, but after the standoff the Nightbringer burrows its way out of the underground through who knows how much solid rock anyway... 

And in keeping with the new lore, it is now assumed that the Nightbringer in that novel is a shard. Especially given that there is nothing in the book to specify otherwise. iirc, it isn't even referred to as a c'tan or star god once in the entire novel. 



Sangriento said:


> Afaik the outsider is unsharded so that would make him the single most powerful entity.on the galaxy


Nope, gw have confirmed that every c'tan was sharded, and the Outsider is named among them in the necron codex. 

The dyson sphere is an eldar creation, likely used because they did not have tesseract labyrinth technology and needed to contain a shard that the necrons either missed or since escaped. It isn't written, but given what we have it is a logical assumption.


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