# Chaos Marine Fluff



## Skull Harvester (Mar 7, 2010)

Right now I'm amidst a personal debate between which Chaos Legion to theme my army around. So far the biggest competitors are Night Lords and Iron Warriors, though World Eaters/Skulltakers also appeal to me quite a bit. I like the color scheme of the IW (and Black Legion) the best, the overall appearance of the Night Lords the best, and the brutal idea behind WE/ST. 

The things I don't really care for about the Iron Warriors is how they severe off mutations to replace with biotics. I want my CSM army to feel daemonic, not like a tech marine club if that makes sense. I like the Night Lords, but again they don't seem to do too much with the daemon thing, just more of an evil Raven Guard in my head. WE/ST are probably the most fluff heavy, but from what I've learned lack any real ranged offense, that and the color scheme is my least favorite (though not terrible).

Anyway, I was wondering what your guys opinion was on each army. I was looking for a 3.5 codex to help get a better idea of a fluff heavy army, but frankly I'm broke as a joke right now (I splurged and bought Storm of Iron last night. . . yay finding $10 at the bar). I know that in the current codex everyone is basically the same, but I still would like to keep an rich, deep, and at least mostly accurate army list. Thanks!


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Night Lords are kinda thuggish, in my eyes. Think a crime syndicate, only not in any way cool.
WE are perhaps your best bet, but bear in mind that the Legions often work together - which in many ways was the idea behind the current Dex. Why not have an army of most WE, but IW Oblits for Fire Support? Originally Oblits were almost exclusively Iron Warriors anyway...


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## Skull Harvester (Mar 7, 2010)

TheKingElessar said:


> Night Lords are kinda thuggish, in my eyes. Think a crime syndicate, only not in any way cool.
> WE are perhaps your best bet, but bear in mind that the Legions often work together - which in many ways was the idea behind the current Dex. Why not have an army of most WE, but IW Oblits for Fire Support? Originally Oblits were almost exclusively Iron Warriors anyway...


This is true. I was told that in Storm of Iron, the IW use Khorne Berzerkers to help rush in once they breached, so I was kind of thinking that. Maybe take the zerkers, paint one shoulder pad Black and Gold and do the yellow/black warning scheme they do on their weapons and on their right shin.

As for the Oblits, I was wondering if they were basically the ultimate form of Iron Warriors haha. They look so cool, though I'd swap out the heads for something else. 

With IW, what would be a good HQ choice? I know the Warsmith is the most fluff heavy, but a lot of people I've seen use either Sorcerers/Lords and sometimes even Princes.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Warsmiths are no longer a named option in the Dex, hence the alternatives. Personally, I believe the only genuinely good Chaos HQ is Kharn the Betrayer. A lot of people will tell you Lash Princes are good, or Warptime/Wings/Nurgle. I think they are adequate, but not actually good - good for that Codex, perhaps, but it is a seriously nerfed book. I recommend a 'counts-as' Kharn, modelled as a Warsmith with some funky mechanical doowackey.


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## Skull Harvester (Mar 7, 2010)

TheKingElessar said:


> Warsmiths are no longer a named option in the Dex, hence the alternatives. Personally, I believe the only genuinely good Chaos HQ is Kharn the Betrayer. A lot of people will tell you Lash Princes are good, or Warptime/Wings/Nurgle. I think they are adequate, but not actually good - good for that Codex, perhaps, but it is a seriously nerfed book. I recommend a 'counts-as' Kharn, modelled as a Warsmith with some funky mechanical doowackey.


I rather like this idea actually. Originally I was going to slap the Warsmiths biotic arm onto one of the Chaos Terminator Lords with a new head, but now I'm mentally brewing with new ideas hah. Thanks! I'll need to look up the rules on Kharn.

Originally I was going to do Abaddon, is he any good in this codex?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Ugh. No. Any character that costs more than a Land Raider has to be incredible...he simply isn't. If he cost 100 points less he'd be phenomenal - but he doesn't.


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## Skull Harvester (Mar 7, 2010)

TheKingElessar said:


> Ugh. No. Any character that costs more than a Land Raider has to be incredible...he simply isn't. If he cost 100 points less he'd be phenomenal - but he doesn't.


Well my GW webpage won't load for some reason, so what is it exactly Kharn does? haha


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Make up your own Chapter using the bits you like most about each of the Traitor Legions you mention, work up your own fluff background for them, and choose the Codex: CSM rules that fit them the best. From what you say, it sounds to me like you'd get on well with something like a blitzkrieg-themed army, a particularly brutal armoured-assault bunch who don't frown on mutations the way orthodox Iron Warriors would.


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

TheKingElessar said:


> Warsmiths are no longer a named option in the Dex, hence the alternatives. Personally, I believe the only genuinely good Chaos HQ is Kharn the Betrayer. A lot of people will tell you Lash Princes are good, or Warptime/Wings/Nurgle. I think they are adequate, but not actually good - good for that Codex, perhaps, but it is a seriously nerfed book.


What the hell...also Kharn can get splattered by warptime dp in 1 round, usualy, and there is just ONE competetive list that includes Kharn (one better than nothing though, still won better than all the codices except eldar).


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Skull Harvester said:


> I like the Night Lords, but again they don't seem to do too much with the daemon thing, just more of an evil Raven Guard in my head.


Some Night Lords embrace Chaos, some don't. In fact on that topic, the largest Night Lords warband in the galaxy is actually led by a Daemon Prince, so.... 

Personally, I've seen a few Night Lords armies, based entirely around the Night Lords marines models, Night Lords Lord model and similar converted Terminators etc, and it looks absolutly fantastic.

And there is nothing (fluff wise) stopping you creating a Night Lords warband that embraces Chaos, utilises Daemons/mutations etc.


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## Skull Harvester (Mar 7, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Some Night Lords embrace Chaos, some don't. In fact on that topic, the largest Night Lords warband in the galaxy is actually led by a Daemon Prince, so....
> 
> Personally, I've seen a few Night Lords armies, based entirely around the Night Lords marines models, Night Lords Lord model and similar converted Terminators etc, and it looks absolutly fantastic.
> 
> And there is nothing (fluff wise) stopping you creating a Night Lords warband that embraces Chaos, utilises Daemons/mutations etc.


Yeah I was debating this. Maybe have some of the Raptors have Fury/Gargoyle wings or something. This would make a cool Daemon Queen if you will:

http://www.coolminiornot.com/store/product.php?xProd=4754&xSec=64

I know a lot of the NLs try to hide if they are tainted, so it would be pretty interesting to see a full warband that embraces it, maybe try to convert their brethren over with promise of greater power through terror. I know that they use a lot of Fast Attack/Raptors, but would zerkers be very far off? Give them sort of a "siege from the darkness" feel.


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## Skull Harvester (Mar 7, 2010)

I won't lie this makes me want to paint up some Night Lords

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_y6W7acufmFE/SvtuRQ7Y_eI/AAAAAAAAAuc/Hvt-4mscwYQ/s320/NightLord05.jpg

I'm now stuck between NL and IW haha.


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## Skull Harvester (Mar 7, 2010)

So I've been reading Storm of Iron more and more, and I noticed them using zerkers, like i mentioned before. My question is two fold, one with them using the warriors of Khorne, would they keep their usual red color scheme with maybe an IW logo, or would they pick up the colors of the IW? Also, would the Nigh Lords use Cult troops even though they don't use daemons very often? Since they believe so heavily in the imagery of death, would Plague Marines fit their criteria? They are literally walking death after all.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I was under the impression that berserkers formed nomadic war bands that serve various masters..... so I would guess that they all use the same colors and icons. Although since you are making your own army of night lords or IW you could just right up some narrative about your berserkers that would explain why they would use your colors....... although I would think it would be harder to write of them not using the khornate icons.... maybe you could use both? A night lords khorne berserker would look fucking awesome, if you do it show us some pics.


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## Skull Harvester (Mar 7, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> I was under the impression that berserkers formed nomadic war bands that serve various masters..... so I would guess that they all use the same colors and icons.


interesting. . . it confused me because Storm of Iron makes it sound like they were in the burnished iron same as the IW themselves. If I was going to include them in any army I'd put some sort of insignia while keeping their usual red color scheme anyway, but was wondering how they functioned. I think I mentioned it before but the black/yellow stripes on a shin guard and weapon for IW, the lightening or maybe the white helm for NL, etc.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well I wouldn't quote me on that. I just looked up the lex article and it shows a black legion khorne berserker with a red head and red right shoulder pad. Maybe you could do something similar. I have a friend who painted his zerks like the rest of his army.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

I would say you could do it in a similar way as Black Legion cult troops are represented. A mixture of their conventional cult colours and their new dedications colours.

So if for example you wanted Iron Warrior Khorne Bezerkers, use the Iron Warrior colour scheme but with small elements of Red/Brass (like the Helmet/Pads as examples). Or if your up to the task, have them fully in Iron Warrior colours just dripping in blood.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

MyI)arkness said:


> (one better than nothing though, still won better than all the codices except eldar).


:laugh: Good one!

Also, there's only one competitive build of Chaos anyway, and only two of Eldar. Sigh. Slowly declining in power, with every newer Dex.


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## Skull Harvester (Mar 7, 2010)

TheKingElessar said:


> :laugh: Good one!
> 
> Also, there's only one competitive build of Chaos anyway, and only two of Eldar. Sigh. Slowly declining in power, with every newer Dex.


are you talking about the footslogging Death Guard?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Rhino'd up Death Guard. Footslogging is for trench warfare. If WW1 taught us anything, it's that trench warfare is inefficient.


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## screenedwings (Mar 5, 2010)

I also started to collect WE and im new to chaos but i heard something about word bearers.....


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Yo Ive been a big Iron Warriors player for many years, and the cool thing about them is that you can customize anything to make them look part of their army. I pretty much made kharn my honsou, and customised him to look accordingly. If you get one of those space marine heads that has half of it bionics it'l work very well. You can also use green stuff to make that arm that he stole from that he cut off from that ultra marines. And yes the bezerkers look awesome in iron warriors colors, i just suggest you switch the helmets because they look too world eaterish. Also try to cut off and file the khorne marks to make him look accordingly.

AS for abbadon... im not gonna lie, he pretty fricken awesome. I never use him, but when i get the chance hes pretty much the best character you can use, i mean you'll strike first virtually most of the time with strength 8 attacks. But then again, if your playen a iron warriors army you might be thinken a lot of heavy support... so it is kind of hard to have both.

Anyway hope that help. good luck chosing the army, and cheers to you if you choose Iron Warriors


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

failbaddon is nowere near as awesome as kharn! Go world eaters!


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Skull Harvester said:


> I like the Night Lords, but again they don't seem to do too much with the daemon thing, just more of an evil Raven Guard in my head.


That's quite a common assumption, usually based on the general mindset from the old Index Astartes article, which unfortunately had rules that didn't really reflect the fluff.

Even in the Night Lords, Raptors are quite rare - they just use them a little more than most Legions, primarily because Raptors were said to be pretty terrifying. The "All Fast Attack, all the time" was essentially to make them the opposite (on the tabletop) to the Iron Warriors, and that's 2 editions out of date now.

The Night Lords are all about overwhelming, decisive attacks (usually against weaker foes), and spreading terror through an enemy force. Unfortunately, the rules never reflected that. But they're definitely "not the Chaos hybrid of the Raven Guard and the White Scars" (to coin a phrase from B&C).

Also, the Night Lords don't like worship in any of its forms, but they use Chaos as a weapon. They're a Legion tainted by Chaos, to varying degrees, and they use daemons as a weapon of terror (such as at Scound's Fall, in the Chaos Codex).


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