# Deathfire - Horus Heresy 32



## Brother Lucian

http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/deathfire-hardback.html

*The Story*

Vulkan lies in state beneath the Fortress of Hera, and yet many of his sons still refuse to believe that he is truly dead. After a seemingly miraculous rescue by the Ultramarines, Artellus Numeon, once captain of the Pyre Guard, urges the other Salamanders on Macragge to leave Imperium Secundus and return their primarch’s body to the home world of Nocturne – there to be reborn in the flames of Mount Deathfire. But Numeon grapples endlessly with his doubts and fears for the future of the Legion, while their foes seek to carve out new destinies of their own...
*About this book*

_The Horus Heresy: Deathfire_ is released in July 2015. To be amongst the first to know when it goes on sale, set your reminder today.


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## Angel of Blood

Hmm, I was under the impression this was going to be another LE.


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## Brother Lucian

Just glad that the Heresy series is picking up again after the lengty drought.


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## mal310

Another Nick Kyme. Sigh. Sadly he has probably written more in the series now than ABD. I'd love to see ABD, Wraight or Abnett do something with the Salamaders.


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## kickboxerdog

mal310 said:


> Another Nick Kyme. Sigh. Sadly he has probably written more in the series now then ABD. I'd love to see ABD, Wraight or Abnett do something with the Salamaders.


book 31 is a compilation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Horus_Heresy_(novels)#book31 if I remember correctly.


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## mal310

kickboxerdog said:


> book 31 is a compilation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Horus_Heresy_(novels)#book31 if I remember correctly.


Yeah, my mistake, forgot about that. Amended my post. 

Cheers


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## Angel of Blood

mal310 said:


> Another Nick Kyme. Sigh. Sadly he has probably written more in the series now than ABD. I'd love to see ABD, Wraight or Abnett do something with the Salamaders.


I'd like to see ANYONE do something with the Salamanders that isn't Kyme. But hell, I'd rather see more Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, Night Lords or Thousand Sons. Salamanders have gotten a rather silly amount of love now. It seems the Shattered Legions, the legions with the least amount of manpower, seem to be taking centre stage of the Heresy series these days.


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## Garviel loken.

I wonder how big of a role the ultramarines will play in this novel, and if we may see some important ultramarine characters.


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## F22Reject

So.....what are we supposed to do about Deathfire? I dig the Salamanders whole...for the common man vibe...but this Nick Kyme business is not reassuring. I picked up Vulkan Lives thinking "Yes! Yes! YES this is going to be it" and i walked away utterly demoralized. I wanna get on board with this Deathfire...i want to see where the heresy is leading us...but it's Nick bloody Kyme...

...i just...i just don't know anymore.


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## Vaz

If you imagine that as a common man, you are an F22 Reject.

Nick Kyme is of the same magnitude a writer reject.

Considering his role as editor, that's pretty much a guaranteed nope and continual degradation of the series.


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## Garviel loken.

Vaz said:


> If you imagine that as a common man, you are an F22 Reject.
> 
> Nick Kyme is of the same magnitude a writer reject.
> 
> Considering his role as editor, that's pretty much a guaranteed nope and continual degradation of the series.


Considering your role as an extreme whiner, that makes you a continual degradation to this forum.


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## Angel of Blood

Garviel loken. said:


> Considering your role as an extreme whiner, that makes you a continual degradation to this forum.


Nah he's just honest and blunt. Kyme is shite, it's a pretty common opinion. Not all of us are eternal optimists and fans of everything the Heresy throws out. We like quality writing.


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## Garviel loken.

Angel of Blood said:


> Nah he's just honest and blunt. Kyme is shite, it's a pretty common opinion. Not all of us are eternal optimists and fans of everything the Heresy throws out. We like quality writing.


Its fine to think someone isnt a good writer, but when he says something about a writer on every fugging thread, it gets tiresome. If he is this upset about the HH why doesnt he just leave and not read it anymore?


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## Angel of Blood

Because this is a forum. If he wants to vent about Kyme, then crack on. Discussion abound. How about you try and defend Kyme, I know it's incredibly difficult due to how awful he is. But give it a go. 

Or for a novel idea. Ignore him.


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## Vaz

Perhaps because I'm still as warped as to hope that there is good things still to come from the Heresy? But hey, I guess I can't continue to feel disappointed by something that I've invested a huge amount of man hours and capital into (having paid over the odds for it in the first place) and that results in me getting a bit pissed off at.

I'm just not stupid enough to pay for it though. I have a friend who is able to loan me his books after he's read them.

Having said that, I hope you enjoy throwing your money away and reading the likes of Kyme, Goto, and others with the intelligence and creative writing skills of a limp dick wet paper bag. Me? I like asking more of it.


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## Garviel loken.

Angel of Blood said:


> Because this is a forum. If he wants to vent about Kyme, then crack on. Discussion abound. How about you try and defend Kyme, I know it's incredibly difficult due to how awful he is. But give it a go.
> 
> Or for a novel idea. Ignore him.


I didn't realize this was a Dr. Phil forum for everyone to bitch and moan on.

And Kyme has done some good work. Censure is one of the best HH audios, and vulkan lives was a decent read. 

I find it funny how you can so easily hate on him, but you likely have the writing capability of a second grader.


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## Angel of Blood

Garviel loken. said:


> I didn't realize this was a Dr. Phil forum for everyone to bitch and moan on.
> 
> And Kyme has done some good work. Censure is one of the best HH audios, and vulkan lives was a decent read.
> 
> I find it funny how you can so easily hate on him, but you likely have the writing capability of a second grader.


Well you seem to be bitching about Vaz just as bad. 

And Ahhhhh, I see you've gone down the mature option of insulting me. You're clearly a good debater. Forgive me if I pretend to care for a moment. But let's say my writing capability was that bad, you clearly don't understand that criticism does require you to be good at the subject, just have an understanding and appreciation of it. Pastor Maldonado is quite a shit F1 driver, hilariously so infact. Sure he's better than me, but that doesn't change the fact that he just isn't very good. Let's go with the hate child himself, Justin fucking Bieber. His songs are awful, he is awful, everything about his entire existence, is awful. Yet he can still probably sing better than I can.

Can you honestly say there is not a single actor, musician, artist, author or athlete that you have criticised, who for all that, is still better than you? 

Oh wait, that's right, we can check each others post histories!



Garviel loken. said:


> My least favourite thing from graham in general is how he takes cool one liners from other authors and ruins them...."today we march for molech"
> 
> Fuck of McNeill





Garviel loken. said:


> "I was there the day horus fell"
> 
> Fuckin McNeill


So how about you follow your own advice towards Mcneill and stop being a fucking hypocrite.


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## Garviel loken.

Angel of Blood said:


> Well you seem to be bitching about Vaz just as bad.
> 
> And Ahhhhh, I see you've gone down the mature option of insulting me. You're clearly a good debater. Forgive me if I pretend to care for a moment. But let's say my writing capability was that bad, you clearly don't understand that criticism does require you to be good at the subject, just have an understanding and appreciation of it. Pastor Maldonado is quite a shit F1 driver, hilariously so infact. Sure he's better than me, but that doesn't change the fact that he just isn't very good. Let's go with the hate child himself, Justin fucking Bieber. His songs are awful, he is awful, everything about his entire existence, is awful. Yet he can still probably sing better than I can.
> 
> Can you honestly say there is not a single actor, musician, artist, author or athlete that you have criticised, who for all that, is still better than you?
> 
> Oh wait, that's right, we can check each others post histories!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how about you follow your own advice towards Mcneill and stop being a fucking hypocrite.


Insulting you? Well werent you not insulting Kyme? And i posted once on ONE thread about mcniell. Like i said its fine to say your peice, but say it, and be done with it


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## Vaz

Garviel loken. said:


> I didn't realize this was a Dr. Phil forum for everyone to bitch and moan on.


Are you fucking serious? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

mate, you should have got here back in the days. Oh shit. You'd have loved Stella. Now that was a right cunt. You'd have got on well. Don't suppose you remember Jez either? Don't know if he's still preaching his "namaste" bollocks when he was all about getting the site some extra revenue by bringing in newbies, but spout some shite about how we must all play nice and try to be the little spoon or some other corporate white paper-bullshit-because-Nancy-the-intern-got-fingered-in-the-copier-room-now-we've-got-a-lawsuit type thinking, and he'd wear your rectum like a fucking neckwarmer.

No seriously. Pull on your big boy panties, go to stores and find yourself a pair of adult male shoulders and swallow a few man the fuck up pills, because here is a harsh truth.

This site is and was the site, created by, and run by people, and made and populated by people who were sick of the constant shit on warseer, the heavy handed modding of dakka, and the hypocrisy/moronism of B+C, it became quite well.

Hence, I come in. A spade is a fucking spade, and I will beat people with it if they do shit bad. I am the fucking Sword of Damocles, if you will.

Now, we've got to put up with snivelling little bitches who don't like how their favourite authors get trashed in the dirt. 

I'm sure Nick Kyme doesn't care, it's probably water off a ducks back to him to see some random guy on a random website complain about how shit he is. He's the fucker on ~50grand a year to grow a neckbeard and play pew pew games with little toy dolls reading about them and running scripts through Spelling and Grammar on Microsoft Word.

If he does go home and cut himself because of what I say, or go for long walks to the end of the pier, then I'm actually deeply sorry. But at the same time, he should fucking stop writing.

And then there's you. Crying about it. Getting offended on his behalf. Fuck sake.

I know you're Canadian, and everything, but have you ever done anything manly in your entire life, like felt your voice drop a couple of octaves, or pulled your first face pube out accidentally that you were so proud of?

Christ almighty.


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## Angel of Blood

Good thing he wasn't around for that terminator cosplay post. Now that was a fun thread.


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## gen.ahab

The flying fuck is this shit? 
It's almost like the good old days are back again.


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## Garviel loken.

Vaz said:


> Are you fucking serious? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
> 
> mate, you should have got here back in the days. Oh shit. You'd have loved Stella. Now that was a right cunt. You'd have got on well. Don't suppose you remember Jez either? Don't know if he's still preaching his "namaste" bollocks when he was all about getting the site some extra revenue by bringing in newbies, but spout some shite about how we must all play nice and try to be the little spoon or some other corporate white paper-bullshit-because-Nancy-the-intern-got-fingered-in-the-copier-room-now-we've-got-a-lawsuit type thinking, and he'd wear your rectum like a fucking neckwarmer.
> 
> No seriously. Pull on your big boy panties, go to stores and find yourself a pair of adult male shoulders and swallow a few man the fuck up pills, because here is a harsh truth.
> 
> This site is and was the site, created by, and run by people, and made and populated by people who were sick of the constant shit on warseer, the heavy handed modding of dakka, and the hypocrisy/moronism of B+C, it became quite well.
> 
> Hence, I come in. A spade is a fucking spade, and I will beat people with it if they do shit bad. I am the fucking Sword of Damocles, if you will.
> 
> Now, we've got to put up with snivelling little bitches who don't like how their favourite authors get trashed in the dirt.
> 
> I'm sure Nick Kyme doesn't care, it's probably water off a ducks back to him to see some random guy on a random website complain about how shit he is. He's the fucker on ~50grand a year to grow a neckbeard and play pew pew games with little toy dolls reading about them and running scripts through Spelling and Grammar on Microsoft Word.
> 
> If he does go home and cut himself because of what I say, or go for long walks to the end of the pier, then I'm actually deeply sorry. But at the same time, he should fucking stop writing.
> 
> And then there's you. Crying about it. Getting offended on his behalf. Fuck sake.
> 
> I know you're Canadian, and everything, but have you ever done anything manly in your entire life, like felt your voice drop a couple of octaves, or pulled your first face pube out accidentally that you were so proud of?
> 
> Christ almighty.


Being an asshole must be an english thing i guess. Here in Canada we are taught things a bit differently. Being a man isnt about bitching a moaning whenever you feel like it, or being a keyboard warrior, being a man is knowing when to shut the fuck up and respecting someone else's work. 

And then theres the golden rule.


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## Angel of Blood

i dunno, you were doing a pretty good job of being an asshole when commenting on my writing ability. Maybe I misheard you though, hard to hear from our pit as you tower above on that mightily tall horse of yours.


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## Angel of Blood

gen.ahab said:


> The flying fuck is this shit?
> It's almost like the good old days are back again.


And as for you, go back to hunting your fucking whale!


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## gen.ahab

Angel of Blood said:


> And as for you, go back to hunting your fucking whale!


 Ain't nobody tells Ahab when it's Moby-dick'in time besides Ahab.


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## Vaz

Garviel loken. said:


> Being an asshole must be an english thing i guess. Here in Canada we are taught things a bit differently. Being a man isnt about bitching a moaning whenever you feel like it, or being a keyboard warrior, being a man is knowing when to shut the fuck up and respecting someone else's work.
> 
> And then theres the golden rule.


Respect what? I don't fucking go around worshipping horses because they at least are able to turn an unuseable product into manure. Kyme just wastes paper.


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## Garviel loken.

I love you guys.


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## forkmaster

Oh dear what this thread went all over the place!

Nick Kyme is awful at writing most of his stories. He has had a few exceptions. For instance I enjoyed his SMB, _Perfection_, _Censure_ was decent and actually did quite a good job on his EC-shorts he recently wrote. A better job at character-development than McNeill did in _Angel Exterminatus_ (and I loved his early EC-work), but that isn't saying much with that novel being shite. But his Salamanders-stories so far has been so bad that me as a Swedish guy could even write better than he did, and English isn't even my first language. 

But with that said, and I always want to point out is that he seems like a nice guy, so I have nothing personal against him as a person. His writing is just below what I'm looking for.


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## Garviel loken.

As for the title, as silly as it is, isnt there a "Mount deathfire" on nocturne?


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## Phoebus

There is.

So many things have been retconned or changed in the last two decades and change that this setting has been around for... but for some reason certain names have proven immune to any sort of common sense.

Any name that is formed from two nouns smashed together is already facing an uphill battle to not sound ridiculous. "Deathfire" is just idiotic. It's right up there with the attempt to say that Lion El'Jonson, a name that served as a tribute to the poet Lionel Johnson (who wrote the poem "Dark Angel"), really means "The Lion, the Son of the Forest". I mean, I'm sure there's also a Calibanite out there whose last name is El'Peterson, which means "the Son of the Mountain" or whatever, right?

Jesus, just do away with those names. Change them. Pretend they never existed. Whatever.


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## Doom wolf

Phoebus said:


> There is.
> 
> So many things have been retconned or changed in the last two decades and change that this setting has been around for... but for some reason certain names have proven immune to any sort of common sense.
> 
> Any name that is formed from two nouns smashed together is already facing an uphill battle to not sound ridiculous. "Deathfire" is just idiotic. It's right up there with the attempt to say that Lion El'Jonson, a name that served as a tribute to the poet Lionel Johnson (who wrote the poem "Dark Angel"), really means "The Lion, the Son of the Forest". I mean, I'm sure there's also a Calibanite out there whose last name is El'Peterson, which means "the Son of the Mountain" or whatever, right?
> 
> Jesus, just do away with those names. Change them. Pretend they never existed. Whatever.


LOL, your post is Reminded me of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUrryh9kh5U

Beyond that, I think beyond the fact that they have clearly distributed legions and Thematics between writers, it seems that the BL writers have too much works, or are too much in advance with the FW publication.

I feel that all those little meaningful stories brought by second wave authors are meant to be filler between the real great event of the HH. 

ADB has confessed being a slow Writers, Dan Abnett is often workin on other works out of 40K and Graham MacNeill... is whatever you think of him...

Writing a whole novel is no small work, require a lot foretough if you want to make it at least half-right. Writing a whole series of this scale can be quite staggering.

Now put some executive meddling into the mix, and this can be a real nightmare....

EDIT : And Deathfire isn't that bad of a name... it's far worse : reminding me of the name Rob Liefeld gave to his characters in the 90's.


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## MidnightSun

Phoebus said:


> Any name that is formed from two nouns smashed together is already facing an uphill battle to not sound ridiculous. "Deathfire" is just idiotic. It's right up there with the attempt to say that Lion El'Jonson, a name that served as a tribute to the poet Lionel Johnson (who wrote the poem "Dark Angel"), really means "The Lion, the Son of the Forest". I mean, I'm sure there's also a Calibanite out there whose last name is El'Peterson, which means "the Son of the Mountain" or whatever, right?


I'm pretty sure Lion El'Johnson used to be called Lynn Elgonsen which is a. a less blatant reference and b. makes more sense.


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## Angel of Blood

It's a pity, because refered to as just 'The Lion'. It sounds awesome and carries a good sense of weight and bad assery. Which is why I suppose all the authors so rarely call him by his full name in their novels.


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## Roninman

So this is normal full lenght novel? Would have to skip it since A) its Kyme B) seems another meaningless novel.

First novel i skipped was Damnation of Pythos and it was only cause it seemed yet again another sidestory. Nothing to do with its author Annandale, im actually someday interested to read some of his works. But Kyme hasnt wrote anything good so far that i have liked.


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## Sev

This is a full length novel, it might even be 500+ pages like _Vengeful Spirit_ or _ATS_. That, or £25/€30 is the new regular price for HH hardbacks...


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## Vaz

I'd be inclined to the latter.


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## Angel of Blood

I bought Pythos, still not read it. Have zero motivation to read it either.


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## ckcrawford

I'm surprised the Heresy team let him do another Salamanders novel. Even if you think its good, thats a bit much to have a single author, who... really hasn't hit a home run in terms of a quality novel, essentially corner Salamanders fluff. 

As a Salamanders fan, I'm kind of insulted. Also lack of ambition by Nick to go try something else like every other author who's lasted in the series, is frankly disturbing. 

To allow a single author to write like that about the Salamanders really shows that black library doesn't give a shit about that legion.


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## forkmaster

ckcrawford said:


> I'm surprised the Heresy team let him do another Salamanders novel. Even if you think its good, thats a bit much to have a single author, who... really hasn't hit a home run in terms of a quality novel, essentially corner Salamanders fluff.
> 
> As a Salamanders fan, I'm kind of insulted. Also lack of ambition by Nick to go try something else like every other author who's lasted in the series, is frankly disturbing.
> 
> To allow a single author to write like that about the Salamanders really shows that black library doesn't give a shit about that legion.


Could be that nobody else wants to touch the Legion as well.


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## ckcrawford

forkmaster said:


> Could be that nobody else wants to touch the Legion as well.


Essentially making something out of nothing? Perhaps. Its funny how a legion which initially contributed very limited contribution to the Heresy has more novels and short stories than most legions. 

That goes for the stupid Raven stories as well.


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## Angel of Blood

Yeah I'm getting really tired of all the Shattered Legion novels. To date the three decimated Legions seem to have contributed more to the fight against the traitors than anyone else.

Blood Angels - Ambushed at Signus, jumped to Ultramar. Fuck all since.
Space Wolves - Burning of Prospero, not actually part of the Heresy at that point technically. Ambushed by the Alpha Legion, escaped to Terra. Fuck all since.
White Scare - Stuck at Chondax, pushed past Alpha Legion and went to Prospero. Promptly ambushed by the Death Guard - Sensing a fucking pattern here aren't we? - made for Terra. Small bands of the 'traitor' White Scars sent out by the Khan, but the Legions and Primarch? Fuck all since.
Imperial Fists - Stuck on Terra, but we'll forgive this one as that's their deal. Went to the Phall system though and a brief trip to Mars. Fuck all since.
Ultramarines - Ambushed (AGAIN with the ambushes) by the World Eaters and Word Bearers. Stuck in Ultramar, fuck all contribution to the Heresy by merit of being stuck.

Dark Angels - The only other loyalist Legion not at Istvaan V to be doing stuff, fought a long crusade in the Thramas system. The Lion went to Ultramar to get the Ultramarines into the fight (promptly stuck though I guess), a large portion of his Legion continuing to fight the traitors under the command of Corswain.

The 'Shattered' Legion on the other hand. 
Corax and the Raven Guard are trolling the traitors everywhere they go.
The Salamanders and Iron Hands seem to be just about everywhere causing problems for the traitors wherever they go.

Seriously. What the fuck. Fuck off with the Shattered Legions and actually get the full strength loyalists into the god damned fight already.


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## ckcrawford

Angel of Blood said:


> Yeah I'm getting really tired of all the Shattered Legion novels. To date the three decimated Legions seem to have contributed more to the fight against the traitors than anyone else.
> 
> Blood Angels - Ambushed at Signus, jumped to Ultramar. Fuck all since.
> Space Wolves - Burning of Prospero, not actually part of the Heresy at that point technically. Ambushed by the Alpha Legion, escaped to Terra. Fuck all since.
> White Scare - Stuck at Chondax, pushed past Alpha Legion and went to Prospero. Promptly ambushed by the Death Guard - Sensing a fucking pattern here aren't we? - made for Terra. Small bands of the 'traitor' White Scars sent out by the Khan, but the Legions and Primarch? Fuck all since.
> Imperial Fists - Stuck on Terra, but we'll forgive this one as that's their deal. Went to the Phall system though and a brief trip to Mars. Fuck all since.
> Ultramarines - Ambushed (AGAIN with the ambushes) by the World Eaters and Word Bearers. Stuck in Ultramar, fuck all contribution to the Heresy by merit of being stuck.
> 
> Dark Angels - The only other loyalist Legion not at Istvaan V to be doing stuff, fought a long crusade in the Thramas system. The Lion went to Ultramar to get the Ultramarines into the fight (promptly stuck though I guess), a large portion of his Legion continuing to fight the traitors under the command of Corswain.
> 
> The 'Shattered' Legion on the other hand.
> Corax and the Raven Guard are trolling the traitors everywhere they go.
> The Salamanders and Iron Hands seem to be just about everywhere causing problems for the traitors wherever they go.
> 
> Seriously. What the fuck. Fuck off with the Shattered Legions and actually get the full strength loyalists into the god damned fight already.


I don't see how anyone can ignore these facts. They could just make a soap opera with all this shattered legion run time. 

I wonder if the good authors have stepped away from the series because of all this stupid shit.


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## Garviel loken.

ckcrawford said:


> I don't see how anyone can ignore these facts. They could just make a soap opera with all this shattered legion run time.
> 
> I wonder if the good authors have stepped away from the series because of all this stupid shit.


ADB said a while back he is taking a break from the series. Dan abnett is busy with other commitments.

The two "best" authors seem to be gone for a while anyways, hopefully the "weaker" authors can pick up the slack.(Not to use weaker as a derogatory term, they are all good in their own right, but ADB and abnett are just superior.)


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## ckcrawford

Garviel loken. said:


> ADB said a while back he is taking a break from the series. Dan abnett is busy with other commitments.
> 
> The two "best" authors seem to be gone for a while anyways, hopefully the "weaker" authors can pick up the slack.(Not to use weaker as a derogatory term, they are all good in their own right, but ADB and abnett are just superior.)


I wish them the best. I'm not sure they will come back to the series as strong as before. I really don't know how they feel about people pissing on their legacy. Some of the novels were really written well with lots of creativity, and I feel that some of the authors could potentially be demoralized by some of the crap the series has pulled. I wonder how Abnett feels about having his best character turned into a mockery.


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## forkmaster

ckcrawford said:


> Essentially making something out of nothing? Perhaps. Its funny how a legion which initially contributed very limited contribution to the Heresy has more novels and short stories than most legions.
> 
> That goes for the stupid Raven stories as well.


Well Kyme should be given credit that he tries to make them important, but most Shattered Legions-stories haven't lived up any higher importance with the exception of _Deliverence Lost_ which tapped into the old background of the Raven Guards gene-seed being ruined. But it was poorly executed.

I've said in the past that the Salamanders could have been a interesting light-theme of "good guys" as opposed to the dark-theme of the Night Lords "bad guys". But none of the characters have been interesting and much of the Legion is silly.

Now that we are being overflodded by Shattered Legions story which removes the tragic impact of Isstvan V which happened in _Fulgrim_ and _The First Heretic_.


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## mal310

Medusan is a full sized anthology and Dan Abnett is one of the authors. Not sure what legion he's writting about but it will be interesting to see his take on them.


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## Garviel loken.

I personally think kyme should stick with the audio dramas. I love his work so far on thiel(Censure, Strategem) and am very excited for The Red Marked.


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## forkmaster

Garviel loken. said:


> I personally think kyme should stick with the audio dramas. I love his work so far on thiel(Censure, Strategem) and am very excited for The Red Marked.


That or short stories. His EC-work was really good.


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## Kharn The Complainer

I have just finished reading Deathfire and was actually amazed. The last few novels and short stories I have read have been average, but this one really impressed me.
It felt like things were actually progressing in the Heresy world and we were not just being presented with some meaningless throw away encounters between characters we neither cared about nor were memerable.

Deathfire expands on where things left off after The Unremembered Empire. I actually really enjoyed the novel, which was a surprise since I care little for the drakes.
In my opinion (which is all that matters) it's the best novel since TUE and Vengeful Spirit. It's nice to see the series moving forwards again.

Oh...and an open letter to ALL the BL writers. (I'm looking at you Nick Kyne since you mentioned in Deathfire that crew were instantly freezing in the vacuum of space)

*YOU DO NOT INSTANTLY FREEZE WHEN EXPOSED TO THE VACUUM OF SPACE!

*I thought it was common knowledge, or at least should be for people writing a great deal about space battles.

I hope this will help future writers...



> The other things, you can't really do much about. After about 10 seconds or so, your skin and the tissue underneath will begin to swell as the water in your body starts to vaporise in the absence of atmospheric pressure. You won't balloon to the point of exploding, though, since human skin is strong enough to keep from bursting; and, if you're brought back to atmospheric pressure, your skin and tissue will return to normal.
> It also won't affect your blood, since your circulatory system is able to keep your blood pressure regulated, unless you go into shock. The moisture on your tongue may begin to boil, though, as reported by Jim LeBlanc who was exposed to near vacuum in a test chamber in 1965. LeBlanc's suit sprung a leak, and he remained conscious for about 14 seconds; his last sensation was bubbling on his tongue (he was safely revived, as the researchers began repressurising the chamber almost immediately -- after about 15 seconds).
> Because you will be exposed to unfiltered cosmic radiation, you can expect some nasty sunburn, and you'll probably also get a case of decompression sickness.You would not, however, freeze straight away, despite the extremely cold temperatures; heat does not leave the body quickly enough for you to freeze before you suffocate, due to the lack of both convection and conduction.
> If you do die in space, your body will not decompose in the normal way, since there is no oxygen. If you were near a source of heat, your body would mummify; if you were not, it would freeze. If your body was sealed in a space suit, it would decompose, but only for as long as the oxygen lasted. Whichever the condition, though, your body would last for a very, very long time without air to facilitate weathering and degradation. Your corpse could drift in the vast expanse of space for millions of years.



Basically, if you've seen what happens when the guy gets decompressed in the film Event Horizon, you're not far off. I've been decompressed several times and I have never frozen. Of course, I have my transhuman biology to thank for that, but the same also goes for normal humans.
I do wonder if the writers are aware, but since the mistake has been made severals times in earlier books, they just keep consistency, even if it is consistently WRONG.


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## Sevatar

There are a ton of these scientific/technical mistakes when it comes to 40k books. But most science-fiction literature has these as well, so I'm inclined to give them a pass on that one.


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## Angel of Blood

I'm going to keep quoting this in other threads till those of you that somehow enjoyed this novel, can explain this absurd plot hole.



Angel of Blood said:


> What a truly fucking awful abortion of a novel that was. I 'acquired' it to finally read as a break between real novels and holy shit, I'm about as glad I read it, as I was watching the latest Fantastic Four film. Sometimes you just need to experience how awful something is, but not in a good way like Sharknado. There is not one redeeming feature in the entire novel for me I'm afraid. At least in say, Vulkan Lives (and holy shit, didn't they just abuse the fuck out of that line), I sort of liked Curze torturing Vulkan over and over. That is until it was revealed he's a perpetual, then I kind of lost interest. But god, that was painful to read.
> 
> Other have nailed most of the bad points already, maybe when I regain my motivation for life, I'll come back and list more, but for now...
> 
> Kaspian Hecht...
> 
> 
> So regarding 'Kaspian Hect'. Please tell me that we weren't at all meant to be surprised that he was actually Narek, albeit with a bit of completely unexplained psyker bullshit applied to him lovingly. I sincerely hope that nobody that read it didn't immediately call that. Because yeah......shock!
> 
> 
> A rather large, and to me, glaring error
> 
> 
> But here's a big one for me. Their second dive into the ruinstorm.....why did they have to do that? Or more accurately, how could they do that? When Magnus launched them out of the ruinstorm, they ended up mere weeks from Terra, in the Segmentum Solar. Which to those unaware, is situated in the galactic west-south west (despite being the 'centre' of the Imperium). Ultramar, and the ruinstorm, are situated in the Ultima Segmentum, in the galactic south east, Ultramar itself being in the south east of the Ultima Segmentum. So yeah, Magnus threw them to the other side of the galaxy. Cheers fella. They then decide to go to Nocturne instead. Which is also situated in the Ultima Segmentum, but in the south west of the sector. The ruinstorm in all other material thus far, had been described as only surrounding Ultramar, not the entire Segmentum. Yet somehow, despite coming from a different direction, they had to enter it again. Also, that close to Terra, they should have easily been able to see the Astronomicum, which is still active.
> 
> Also, did Magnus throw the Death Guard and Word Bearers to Terra with them? It didn't seem to suggest as much in their brief chapters. You would have though they would mention suddenly being right next to Terra. If not, how the fuck did they find them again. Even with the sliver of the fulgurite, it seems a little absurd.
> 
> 
> The Reapers Shroud
> 
> 
> It seemed to almost have been described as the same class as the Furious Abyss and it's sister ships no? Colossal and trident shaped. On that note, was it meant to be the Furious Abyss that they sailed through earlier on in the story? It seemed as if they were well out of Macragge by that point, and from what I remember the Furious Abyss was destroyed on the other side of Macragges moon. It was described as being larger than a Gloriana class vessel, which are what they Primarchs flagships are built from.
> 
> Though from the previous error and others, it wouldn't surprise me if Kyme had either just described it poorly like everything else and they were in fact still within Macragges orbit, or just as likely, he himself failed to remember or didn't check where the Furious Abyss had been destroyed and just though anywhere in the Ultramar system would suffice.


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## Kharn The Complainer

Angel of Blood said:


> I'm going to keep quoting this in other threads till those of you that somehow enjoyed this novel, can explain this absurd plot hole.


 Brother Blood, let me respond to your points.

1. I don't think anyone was fooled by this. But it didn't detract from the story at all. In fact, I don't think the readers were supposed to be fooled. An Ultramarine called Antellus once told me that the technical term is Dramatic Irony. It's when the audience knows something the characters do not. It is supposed to create drama as we, the audience, wait to discover when and how the characters will discover what we already know. I enjoyed this term and wondered for a moment if it was dramatic irony that I knew that I was going to eat his face whilst he didn't.

2. The second of the mentioned occurances was indeed stupid. But I put this down to the idiocy of the Dinosaurmarines and NumaNuma (or whatever his name is). A more vexing moment for me was how a certain 'special guest' was depicted. He seemed rather evil, which is perhaps understandable given all that has happened. But the last time we saw him, he was still a pretty cool guy. The transition was jarring for me.

3. This is not even a valid point. Something 'seemed' like something else in your mind and that has made you angry. The thought didn't even cross my mind. It's just a normal battlebarge. 




> It seemed to almost have been described as...


So it 'seemed'- implying that it wasn't actually described as such, but in your head you formed the image. 
to 'almost'- so not even fully 'seemed', but perhaps 70% 'seemed'.

So you are angry because you formed an image in your head based on a description which you admit was probably not even related to the image you formed. And this is Nick Kyme's fault, how?
The nails are biting hard into my skull over this one.


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## Angel of Blood

Kharn The Complainer said:


> 2. The second of the mentioned occurances was indeed stupid. But I put this down to the idiocy of the Dinosaurmarines and NumaNuma (or whatever his name is).


Put it down to the idiocy of the characters? No. It just doesn't work, it's a massive plot hole that Kyme completely fucked up.




Kharn The Complainer said:


> 3. This is not even a valid point. Something 'seemed' like something else in your mind and that has made you angry. The thought didn't even cross my mind. It's just a normal battlebarge.
> 
> 
> So it 'seemed'- implying that it wasn't actually described as such, but in your head you formed the image.
> to 'almost'- so not even fully 'seemed', but perhaps 70% 'seemed'.
> 
> So you are angry because you formed an image in your head based on a description which you admit was probably not even related to the image you formed. And this is Nick Kyme's fault, how?
> The nails are biting hard into my skull over this one.


Ok, so just ignore all my points about it. Nor did I once say it made me angry. But let's face the facts. It's trident shaped, described as being larger than a Gloriana ship, which are the flagships of primarchs. The only ship we know of, larger than the Gloriana class is the Furious Abyss class of ship, which are incidentally trident shaped. It was most certainly not 'just a normal battle barge'.

There were only three of that class made. Two are still kicking, the other was destroyed much further away from where they were.


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## Brother Lucian

Seen some accounts stating that the Ruinstorm blocked half of the galaxy, not just the 500 worlds. Clearly its grown over time, perhaps the dark gods stirred it up even further.


http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Astronomican
Following the Battle of Calth, Erebus of the traitorous Word Bearers Legion, had managed to complete a blasphemous ritual on Calth's surface, which summoned a Ruinstorm to the galaxy's Eastern Fringe -- a monstrous Warp Storm larger and more destructive than anything space-faring humanity had witnessed since the days of the Age of Strife. It would split the void asunder, dividing the galaxy in two and rendering vast tracts of the Imperium impassable for centuries.


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## Mob

I don't especially care about plot daftness unless it's absurd, and the second dive into the storm with the bad guys following them perfectly again does kinda edge that way. Getting hung up on plot elements is often a sign of bad criticism tbh, but there's def some questionable choices made in this book where the plot is concerned.

However, the book's bad (to me) because the writing is uninspired and terribly workmanlike. Like, barely-has-the-talent-to-even-be-workmanlike. And it's actually one of the better Kyme attempts at interesting prose. His stuff is turgid building blocks linked by one metaphor played to death as if he's sitting with a thesaurus, a couple of repeated descriptive phrases that don't justify the repetition, and then some _barely_ disguised references to actual literary work turn up either as a character or a whole bloody plot.
It's not a fricking homage or clever nod to name a character in your book Circe when you're just doing a bad version of the Odyssey, it's bluntly obnoxious.

At least he didn't do a McNeil and actually have someone turn and directly tell the reader what one of the references was.
"So you see Numenon, I'm from the planet of Prospero, and by an _amazing_ coincidence, I'm now going to act exactly like the character called Prospero in this book by this dramaturge called Will Shakspur, have you read it? Allow me to tell you the plot, you should probably check out this other book called the Odyssey while you're at it mate."


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## Angel of Blood

Brother Lucian said:


> Seen some accounts stating that the Ruinstorm blocked half of the galaxy, not just the 500 worlds. Clearly its grown over time, perhaps the dark gods stirred it up even further.
> 
> 
> http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Astronomican
> Following the Battle of Calth, Erebus of the traitorous Word Bearers Legion, had managed to complete a blasphemous ritual on Calth's surface, which summoned a Ruinstorm to the galaxy's Eastern Fringe -- a monstrous Warp Storm larger and more destructive than anything space-faring humanity had witnessed since the days of the Age of Strife. It would split the void asunder, dividing the galaxy in two and rendering vast tracts of the Imperium impassable for centuries.


Problem with that wiki is it never says where the passages are sourced from. And from every Heresy novel i've read so far, it's said nothing more than the Ultramar system.


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## Brother Lucian

Mind you, the Ultramar system itself only have the 8 or so worlds from curren days. Not the 500 worlds of the Great Crusade era that Imperium Secundus encompassed.


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## Anakwanar

Why we even discuss this heresy guys? Deathfire in company with the Outcast dead should be put into the darkest abyss and forgotten for all times. 

AND if that's a second book in Vulkan HH trilogy - I DREAD TO THINK what would be depicted in the last book. Vulkan shooting rainbows from his a... would be a normal event comparing to what we get upon release. :angry:


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## Kharn The Complainer

Angel of Blood said:


> Ok, so just ignore all my points about it. Nor did I once say it made me angry. But let's face the facts. It's trident shaped, described as being larger than a Gloriana ship, which are the flagships of primarchs. The only ship we know of, larger than the Gloriana class is the Furious Abyss class of ship, which are incidentally trident shaped. It was most certainly not 'just a normal battle barge'.
> 
> There were only three of that class made. Two are still kicking, the other was destroyed much further away from where they were.



And on chapter 33, about the Reaper's Shroud, Nick Kyme sayeth;
"A corpse, its spine broken, its ribs spread and its guts left drooling into the void, drifted past the Reaper's Shroud. The immense *Vengeance-class* warship dwarfed the broken Necrotor, and its shadow entirely engulfed what was left of the light cruiser."

This is the opening description of the Reaper's Shroud. I'm not sure how you understood this to be one of the super class ship. I had a look through the rest of the novel (albeit quickly) and couldn't find mention of the ship being larger than a Gloriana class. Feel free to point me in the direction of the page if I am wrong.

The description of the Reaper's Shroud, which appears later in the novel over Nocturne, goes like this;
"At first a long prow, crested by a pitted trident. Then a ship's flanks, rough-hewn by war, blackened and battle-scarred. A dirty white hull, edged with ...blah blah blah...Larger even than the Charybdis, it spoke of war unending...blah blah"

I really can't be bothered to look through every single page, but I seem to recall the Charybdis not being anything special and certainly not one of the biggest ships around. Considering the differences in ship architecture between legions, simply having a trident stuck on the front of the ship doesn't really mean much.
So I really don't see where you got the idea that;


> It was described as being larger than a Gloriana class vessel, which are what they Primarchs flagships are built from.


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## ckcrawford

Is it weird I usually feel bad when I'm behind in the Heresy Series, but I pretty much regret with, with all the negative reviews I've heard so far?


Currently catching up on the End of Times and its like... should I stop what I'm reading to jump back into the Heresy?


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## Dark Apostle Marduk

ckcrawford said:


> Is it weird I usually feel bad when I'm behind in the Heresy Series, but I pretty much regret with, with all the negative reviews I've heard so far?
> 
> 
> Currently catching up on the End of Times and its like... should I stop what I'm reading to jump back into the Heresy?



I regret to inform you, that you've missed nothing. 

However, I am in the same boat as you. XD


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## Angel of Blood

Kharn The Complainer said:


> SNIP


You're misreading what I've said. In regards to the Reapers Shroud, I asked if it was meant to be, due to it's trident shape and massive size, I'll admit, I missed the Vengeance class part. But that wasn't the main point I was talking about. I was referring to the destroyed ship that they flew through on their way to the ruinstorm. It is to quote... 

"Records indicate it’s a Seventeenth Legion vessel that exceeds Gloriana-class displacement. Beyond that, there’s nothing further known about it."


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## Brother Lucian

Spotted this over at BC:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317604-sequel-to-deathfire-incoming/

We all knew that Deathfire was going to have a followup.

_Nick Kyme has been posting on his twitter account that he has started work on a sequel (as yet untitled) to his novel Deathfire and that he has completed a short story called Sons of the Forge to bridge the gap between those 2 books. Also he has a Audio drama Red-Marked in the pipeline._


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## Mob

Great.


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## Angel of Blood

Indeed.


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## Lord of the Night

Mob said:


> Great.


Isn't it. (This is not sarcasm.)


LotN


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## jasonpittman

mal310 said:


> Medusan is a full sized anthology and Dan Abnett is one of the authors. Not sure what legion he's writting about but it will be interesting to see his take on them.


I was getting sick of the Shattered Legions until reading Medusan, there are some good interwoven stories in it.


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## jasonpittman

What is with the hatred I keep hearing for Deathfire, I honestly thought it was one of the best HH novels in ages and had reignited my interest in the Heresy. I was willing to give up on the series completely until reading this novel. In fact it made me crave the next novel so much I brought the xmas day novel the day of release.


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## Brother Lucian

Some people in here have an unreasonable hatred for Nick Kyme. Sure he is not top tier, but I wouldnt call him entirely trash either. His EC stuff have been really good, and shows he benefits from branching out from the Salamanders.


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