# Theoretical Tyranid Super Army



## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

So, lets just say that the Tyranids defeat the Orks in their current war. Fluff in the Space Marine and Tyranid codex both state that if the Tyranids win, they would become much more powerful from obsorbing so much Ork bio-matter. This scenario draws many questions. Would humanity be able to stop the threat on thier own? Would the Eldar and Tau notice the greater threat and join in the assault? If the Eldar and Humanity were to be dangerously close to extinction by the Tyranids, would Chaos step in to save their food source? Would Dark Eldar join in as well for the sake of not being able to torture humans any more?


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## Kharole (Jun 12, 2012)

i think csm wouldnt step in because think about it they are hating themselves and fighting warbands of there bretheren. remind me of orks. eldar maybe but if the eldar stepped in the dark eldar definantley wouldnt them hating their cowardly bretheren tau perhaps.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

SoL Berzerker said:


> Would humanity be able to stop the threat on thier own?


Possibly, remember that this would be only one splinter of a hive fleet, admittedly a very large one (following their victory) but still likely not significantly larger than the fleets that have been defeated (at admittedly steep costs) before. If the Imperium (probably in the form of a Chapter or two) were to strike immediately before the Tyranids victory (ie. after they've suffered the bulk of their losses but before they can begin reclaiming biomass) then they could potentially eliminate both threats with potentially limited losses.



> Would the Eldar and Tau notice the greater threat and join in the assault?


Both these races are already fully aware of the threat. The Eldar are likely already maneuvering to limit the threat to the Eldar themselves but only time will tell whether that means that they will aid the Imperium. The Tau however are pretty much powerless to alter the circumstances.



> If the Eldar and Humanity were to be dangerously close to extinction by the Tyranids, would Chaos step in to save their food source?


Possibly, however much like the Eldar we won't know what they're planning or how it will relate to the Imperium until it unfolds. After all, they wouldn't want to move against the Tyranids too quickly, at the moment they are spreading a buffet of fear, anger and desperation.



> Would Dark Eldar join in as well for the sake of not being able to torture humans any more?


Again possibly, but this is more unlikely. The Dark Eldar are exceedingly arrogant and its quite possible that they do not recognize the threat that the Tyranids pose. Without territory to be invaded or any other way for the Tyranids to press an attack against them, the DE likely view them like they do all other races. As nothing more than prey.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Wasn't it already theorized that the necrons were the only race to have half a chance against a nid super fleet?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Reaper45 said:


> Wasn't it already theorized that the necrons were the only race to have half a chance against a nid super fleet?


According to the latest necron codex, yes. But this is only if the warring Dynasties can unite and even then there is little solid information. 

Personally I don't have any strong opinions on who I'd back here. Both sides have a pretty good argument.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Orks are far more likely to succeed against the Tyranids than any other Race.
Making this scenario unlikely.

They have the numbers, the same ability to replenish their ranks on the go (I'm not sure who can do it quicker, Orks or Tyranids), The same lust for the outright destruction of the opposition. Orks adapt at slower pace but still can.

Could not a War Host the Size of Gazghkull's a'la The Armageddon Wars crush the Tyranids instead. Each time they destroyed a Hive Fleet or Splinter, more and more Orks would flock to them, increasing its size.

If a Warboss like Gazghkull started this up, given his higher intelligence, for an Ork, he would recognise the importance of the Synapse Creatures, deal with them then the rest become sport. Though i'm pretty sure the Orks have already figured that out by now.

Alice


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

SGMAlice said:


> Orks are far more likely to succeed against the Tyranids than any other Race.
> Making this scenario unlikely.
> 
> They have the numbers, the same ability to replenish their ranks on the go (I'm not sure who can do it quicker, Orks or Tyranids), The same lust for the outright destruction of the opposition. Orks adapt at slower pace but still can.
> ...


Tyranids are able to subvert local environs to support their own rapid growth and slowly poison the orkoid ecosystem. Orks require a certain time period to regrown from spores, and if the landscape has been replaced with spore chimneys and acid pools. In a war of attrition, the tyranids win. In regards to who can regrow losses faster, it goes to the tyranids. 

What success the orks have had so far is due to a combination of resilience and the constant influx of reinforcements from nearby ork empires. But unless they can actually push the tyranids back, then the battle will eventually go the bugs way. Even a stalemate will eventually fall into the tyranids favour as seen in the Ghorola Swarm.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Well... .We all might as well give up now then.

I didnt consider the enviromental changes the Tyranids enact, i guess i forgot about that.
It still seems a little off but what do i know  i just play with the plastic soldiers, i don't read their books :laugh:

Alice


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

We're talking about a conflict that could drag out for centuries however. The Empire of the Overfiend of Octarius is quite a large section of ork held space.  

Plenty of time for the necrons to take advantage of the fighting.


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

What if the Imperium would deploy some virus bombs on the Octavius system?

Should not the Tyranids absorb genetic traits from the orks. Maybe their algea-symbiotic physiology? Think all tyranids with regeneration. Or being able to grow from spores. That would cause some headache for anyone I presume.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Moriouce said:


> What if the Imperium would deploy some virus bombs on the Octavius system?
> 
> Should not the Tyranids absorb genetic traits from the orks. Maybe their algea-symbiotic physiology? Think all tyranids with regeneration. Or being able to grow from spores. That would cause some headache for anyone I presume.


Tyrandis with ramshackle vehicles, or attaching ridiculious amounts of guns to themselves....and of course they've be green, and the ones with red shells would go fasta'.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

SGMAlice said:


> Orks are far more likely to succeed against the Tyranids than any other Race.
> Making this scenario unlikely.


I disagree. It's a matter of thoroughness that the Orks lack.

Look at both races. When they attack a planet they infest it with their own race. It's extremely difficult to annihilate an infestation completely. It takes decades or centuries for the Imperium to methodically eradicate one. Even then, sometimes they miss something and they (Tyranids or Orks) come back. Usually at an inopportune moment.

So to remove either races from a planet requires a methodical, thorough cleansing of the planet.

Which race does that sound like?

Tyranids may not win in a year. Or a decade. Or even a century on a planet. The thing is, the Orks will never really completely get rid of a Tyranid presence (unless the Tyranids removed themselves).

The Ork command structure is also much more vulnerable. 

One need only look to the Ghorala fleet and their eventual triumph over Slakfang.

Ghaz wouldn't fall for such a ploy, but I'm sure many of his lieutenants would.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Serpion5 said:


> According to the latest necron codex, yes. But this is only if the warring Dynasties can unite and even then there is little solid information.
> 
> Personally I don't have any strong opinions on who I'd back here. Both sides have a pretty good argument.


It states in the nid codex that they made it a point to avoid a necron tomb world.

To my knowledge there's no way of knowing how many necrons a single tomb holds. The only info we have is that they contain thousands.


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## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

Orks cannot outsmart the Tyranids, they may have had a chance before, but now that the Swarmlord has joined against the Orks they have no chance of outsmarting them. If the Swarmlord can outsmart Marneus Calgar, it can handle arguably any Ork leader. 

Tyranids scout planets if I'm not mistaken, so it's not that they avoid Necron planets because of Necrons, it's because there is nothing there to harvest. In a Necron vs Tyranid war, I really have no Necron knowledge to make a valid opinion. Do Necrons have titans or titan equivalents? If not, a Hierophant would dominate a battlefield. 

As for the virus, Tyranids are highly resistant. Only one virus has ever worked, and they cannot seem to recreate it. As for infecting the Orks first and then getting the Tyranids to absorb them, the virus would be eradicated in the complex digestion process, the virus would never make it back to the fleet ships for reproduction.


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## Kharole (Jun 12, 2012)

Zion said:


> Tyrandis with ramshackle vehicles, or attaching ridiculious amounts of guns to themselves....and of course they've be green, and the ones with red shells would go fasta'.


Nids would likely be able to survive harsh conditions even what the word better? More? than they are now. Sorry for improper grammar :blush:


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

SoL Berzerker said:


> Orks cannot outsmart the Tyranids, they may have had a chance before, but now that the Swarmlord has joined against the Orks they have no chance of outsmarting them. If the Swarmlord can outsmart Marneus Calgar, it can handle arguably any Ork leader.
> 
> Tyranids scout planets if I'm not mistaken, so it's not that they avoid Necron planets because of Necrons, it's because there is nothing there to harvest. In a Necron vs Tyranid war, I really have no Necron knowledge to make a valid opinion. Do Necrons have titans or titan equivalents? If not, a Hierophant would dominate a battlefield.
> 
> As for the virus, Tyranids are highly resistant. Only one virus has ever worked, and they cannot seem to recreate it. As for infecting the Orks first and then getting the Tyranids to absorb them, the virus would be eradicated in the complex digestion process, the virus would never make it back to the fleet ships for reproduction.


Tyranids are drawn towards biomass. Allot of the planets that house tombs also have life.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> Tyranids are drawn towards biomass. Allot of the planets that house tombs also have life.


Actually, _generally_ the worlds Necrons put themselves on are void of life.

According to the Necron codex, if there is life detected near a Necron tomb world, the tomb world's defenses activate to exterminate it.

Re-reading the codex, there's a planet, Solmenace, in the middle of the path of Hive Fleet Behemoth. All nearby planets have been ravaged, but Solmenace remains untouched.

Whether the Tyranids outright ignored the planet because it was dead or because they avoid Necron is not made clear in this entry. Didn't it say another tomb would was avoided in one of the Tyranid codices as well?


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## Creator of Chaos (Feb 8, 2012)

Should the Orks and the Octarius Empire Fall we could more or less say goodbye to as much as half the Galaxy. The orks as numourous and inovative as they are cannot match the adaptation of the tyranids and soon the whole empire will likely succomb to there relentless will. Leviathen already one of the largest fleets out there will more then likely triple in size following there victory and with there ability to reproduce like orks would doom the galaxy.

Following this The only real chance albeit a slim one for the galaxy would be for the Necrons, Imperium and Eldar to work togethor, form a defensive and blockade as much of the fleet as feasably possible trapping them without biomass in the ruins of the Ork Empire. Then necrons would then unleash weapons used in the war in heaven on the fleet and slowly wittle them away. 
Honestly I can see no other way out of it. Full scale war with a superfleet would certainly fail (Unless the Crons Have multiple Death Stars and the Eldar commit all there craft worlds but even then I have doubts) and Bio Weapons have little effect while fighting them planetside is near suicidal.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

I think we're underestimating the orks and over estimating tyranids somewhat. 

The orks are one of the oldest, most persistent and deadly threats the galaxy has known. The tyranid hive fleets by contrast have been defeated in every major conflict they've found themselves in by each respective race. 

orks are deadly, single minded, technologically advanced and intelligent, have no doubts about that. They have interstellar travel, plasma weapons, teleportation, titan equivalents and more. They can scavenge, create and adapt. There are more orks than humans are there are trillions of humans. 

The orks weakness is cohesion and leadership. The Octavius conflict provides both. Orks are drawn to conflict from over the galaxy, we've seen that with Armageddon. What's more they grow stronger through war. They become larger, tougher, smarter the more dangerous and drawn out a conflict is. This war with the tyranids, which is going to span decades at the least, centuries more likely, is going to produce some truly dangerous orks. 

This is an orkish empire remember, made up of many systems and worlds, populated by huge numbers or orks, each and every one of whom is willing and able to fight. It's vast in size and population. The orks may not win, the tyranids may be able to handle attrition better but this conflict will not be over any time soon.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Rems said:


> The tyranid hive fleets by contrast have been defeated in every major conflict they've found themselves in by each respective race.


I would like to say that is how dangerous a Tyranid fleet is. You can't afford to let it simmer on the back boiler. You either tackle it as soon as you possible or it grows crazily fast and devours everything you have.

I mean, heck, they containment of hive fleet...Kraken? drew forces from all across the Ultra Segmentum. You don't see that level of mobilization from anything short of a Black Crusade.



Rems said:


> There are more orks than humans are there are trillions of humans.


I'd figure there would be, but has there been any definitive statements that there are more Orks in the galaxy than humans?

And there are probably quadrillions of humans in WH40k. Just going from the ~32,380 hiveworlds in the Imperium.



Rems said:


> The orks weakness is cohesion and leadership. The Octavius conflict provides both. Orks are drawn to conflict from over the galaxy, we've seen that with Armageddon. What's more they grow stronger through war.


And that's one of their two greatest weaknesses in the conflict. No matter how strong the building is, if it's built on sand it's still in danger of collapse. 

Look at what happened to Skarfang. He had the Tyranids on the ropes, but some change in tactics and a moment of fury had everything crashing down.

The conflict may go on for a while, but eventually the Tyranids will either overcome them in a normal military sense or decapitate the Ork leadership.  The former may take centuries or millennium (depending on the power and numbers of the rest of the Tyranid hive fleets rolling in) and the latter could happen within days.

I don't see the Orks being able to have the thoroughness of cleansing a system completely free of Tyranid traces. That requires thoroughness and single-mindedness. Something that Orks distinctly lack.

Unless an outside force acts on the conflict (and minus any story bull crap), I don't see the Orks being able to win unless the Tyranids decide to withdraw into easier hunting grounds.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

hailene said:


> Actually, _generally_ the worlds Necrons put themselves on are void of life.
> 
> According to the Necron codex, if there is life detected near a Necron tomb world, the tomb world's defenses activate to exterminate it.
> 
> ...


I'd have to re read the codex to find out for sure, but there's still a few worlds terraformed by humans that have cron tombs on it. And from the sounds of it life has to get pretty close to the tomb to activate it.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

In the scheme of things, the Council of Terra has concluded the current Tyranid hive fleets are only splinters of a larger one coming up behind... could be tomorow, or into the 42nd Millennium, or the 44th... who knows? Even if the Tyranids lose the current conflict, they have a big bad group of friends coming up behind.

Granted, this completely ignores what the Big E will do when he wakes from the Golden Throne and goes after the Tyranids himself


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

If tyranids became TOO powerful or powerful enough to consume the galaxy then I think the Ruinous powers would intervene as much as possible since the annihilation of this galaxy would mean that the gods themselves would be out of emotional power to sustain themselves and probably loose their sentience which is something that the gods do not want, besides if the hive mind became powerful enough I'd guess that it'd be capable of limiting the god's influence (shadow in the warp becoming too strong) in the mortal realm..I havent read the entire thread but thats my hypothesis, the Chaos gods would unite once again like they did during the crusade, unleashing deadly warp storms and daemon infestations at the incoming swarm, daemons are limitless and I dont think they provide biomass so it would boil down to how long would the gods be able to trap large parts of the swarm in a warpstorm..


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