# Games Workshop 2013 Release Schedule (UPDATED: 12 May)



## Zion

EDIT: While I'm leaving the older stuff in, as it's old it's going behind some tags. Here's where we are currently sitting for the rest of 2013:

JUN: Eldar
JUL: 40k Apocalypse update
AUG: Lizardmen
SEP: Bloodbowl
OCT: Space Marines
NOV: Fantasy army release (likely DE)
DEC: Hobbit

I'm personally not counting on Blood Bowl, but I don't create the rumours, I just report them. That said, there's the new schedule.



This is a bigger schedule than last time, but only covers full releases. From *Bell of Lost Souls*:



> RUMORS: 40K - WFB 2013 Schedule Posted by  Larry Vela  at 12/14/2012
> 
> The most interesting things show up in the dead of the night. Here's the latest notes from the singing holiday birds on what 2013 has in store for Warhammer 40,000 and Fantasy...
> 
> 
> 
> JAN: Dark Angels
> FEB: Daemons
> MAR: Wave month (hobbit, warriors of chaos, 40k)
> APR: High Elves
> MAY: Tau
> JUN: Summer wave (40k, supplement book for 40k)
> JUL: Lizardmen
> AUG: Mystery Box
> SEP: Wave month
> OCT: ???
> NOV: Eldar
> DEC: ???
> 
> 
> Now, as usual, these things tend to get more speculative as you go outwards in time, but overall these line up with what we've been hearing from a variety of chatter. We've been hearing for a while that the "Mystery Box" is a fully revamped Blood Bowl. This list would certainly be a "year of xenos" - I can hardly wait.


UPDATE (16 Dec 2012):
Via Faeit212:


> Flyer Waves Coming: Dark Eldar, Eldar, Tau, and Tyranid
> 
> Just to be clear, this came out when I was in the middle of my move, so it was missed on my end. I wanted to make sure that people did not miss it, because it has some very interesting rumor bits, including the Ork Wave, a certain Dark Eldar flyer I have been wanting, and mention of tyranids (please I want to see them on the tabletop again).
> 
> 
> These came out on the 9th, but hey its the weekend, and its catch up time. Please do not forget that these are rumors.
> 
> via Larry Vela on Bols
> Here's the latest out there on the grapevine regarding both Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40,000 in the months ahead.
> 
> via the little birdies:
> Q1
> Late-December-January: Dark Angels
> February-March: Chaos Daemons (still LOTS of chatter of a synchronized release of 40k/WFB Daemons books like Games Workshop did last time)
> March: 40K Miniatures Wave ALPHA (see below)
> Another Hobbit release wave is in this quarter as well.
> 
> Q2
> April: Warhammer Fantasy Armybook
> May: Tau Empire
> June: 40K Miniatures Wave BETA (see below)
> 
> 40K Miniatures waves are said to be:
> Ork wave: with buggy, wartrack, updated Battlewagon, coptas, flashgitz, and tankbustas
> Flyer wave: with: Eldar, Tau, Tyranid, Dark Eldar kits
> The order of those two waves is in contention, but both keep coming up in chatter.
> 
> WFB Army books for 2013 are said to be "pointy ears and 8-pointed star" variety.


Via Faeit212:


> Apocalypse Supplement in the Works
> 
> There are rumors of a 40k supplement coming next summer, and I have heard several different vague hints on what it might be. This evenings rumor bit is a brief, but says that an Apocalypse expansion is being worked on, to update it and bring it into line with 6th edition.
> 
> 
> Could this be next summers expansion? A White Dwarf update?
> 
> via Dave from the Faeit 212 inbox
> i heard something that we could be looking at a new Apoc rulebook soon too bring apoc games in line with 6th edition, could be interesting and im getting excited.


And here is a modified schedule to include some of these specifics:

Jan: Dark Angels (release will be a week late due to the holiday season according to older rumours) *Confirmed. Tangentially, the late US release of the WD was true as well (even digitially)*
Feb: Daemons (Fantasy and 40K according to rumours) Warriors of Chaos instead. Looks like Daemons go on pre-order at the end of Feb though with current rumours though, but this throws a wrench into the current schedule as it stands.
Mar: Ork or Flyer Wave (this could go either way at the moment), also Hobbit and Warriors of Chaos waves
Apr: High Elves
May: Tau (for real this time as the source isn't Ghost21)
Jun: Ork or Flyer Wave (this could go either way at the moment), supplement book for 40k (likely a new mainstream Apoc book), Also Annual Price Increase Month
Jul: Lizardmen (with both these and High Elves on the list this year, and Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings not to long ago it seems GW is trying to reign in the "Lolz, Magic" side of the game by updating the armies)
Aug: Mystery Box (Rumoured to be Blood Bowl, I almost want to call shenanigans and predict another new game that will only be around for a short time, ala Dreadfleet).
Sep: Wave Releases (No ideas on this. Just for fun I'll call Finecast since we haven't had one in a while and there are still a number of models to go that need to get switched over)
Oct: ??? (no rumours yet. Just for fun, I'm going to say that this is probably the SOONEST the Sisters will see an update. No source, no logic, just conjecture because I feel like putting them in the blank spot for now).
Nov: Eldar (aka, High Elves in Space).
Dec: ??? (not typically a release month. Perhaps more Hobbit stuff to fill the gap).


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## Tawa

Zion said:


> This is a bigger schedule than last time, but only covers full releases. From *Bell of Lost Souls*:


Sorry, some Blood Bowl love? :grin:
Count me in!


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## Turnip86

Blood Bowl will be in response to Mantic releasing Dreadball although BB has needed an update for a while.

Lizardmen is a new one to me. I've not been following speculated releases too much but I haven't come across that one before. I guess it's to bring them in line with 8th ed considering at the moment they're top tier and 8th ed is all about balance.

Of the 40k stuff Eldar is the most interesting on that list. Some new rules and units might just persuade me to get back into round bases


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## Viscount Vash

BloodBowl? Where ? Gimme Gimme!!!

Might actually let you play it in GW stores again if we are lucky.


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## Death Shroud

Surely December will see another wave of the Hobbit stuff to coincide with the second film?


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## Tawa

Viscount Vash said:


> BloodBowl? Where ? Gimme Gimme!!!
> 
> Might actually let you play it in GW stores again if we are lucky.


Only if you field a team made up of Hobbits..... :laugh:


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## Jace of Ultramar

I'm sure next December will see more Hobbit releases. I'm hoping Vanilla Marines may see a Codex released for them.


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## Imwookie2

Blood Bowl.......whoot!


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## LukeValantine

My question is the daemons release for both 40k and fantasy.


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## Jace of Ultramar

LukeValantine said:


> My question is the daemons release for both 40k and fantasy.


I would imagine so, 2 birds with 1 stone strategy.


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## Karyudo-DS

Oh goody, GW updating two armies I own in the same year. Good thing I don't need money to live off of. Oh wait... Well I guess better now than before another price hike! :laugh:


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## Zion

Going to add these to the front post but I wanted to make sure they were seen (first one IS a repost, but it's for consolidation purposes as it's related to the schedule rumour):

Via Faeit212:


> Flyer Waves Coming: Dark Eldar, Eldar, Tau, and Tyranid
> 
> Just to be clear, this came out when I was in the middle of my move, so it was missed on my end. I wanted to make sure that people did not miss it, because it has some very interesting rumor bits, including the Ork Wave, a certain Dark Eldar flyer I have been wanting, and mention of tyranids (please I want to see them on the tabletop again).
> 
> 
> These came out on the 9th, but hey its the weekend, and its catch up time. Please do not forget that these are rumors.
> 
> via Larry Vela on Bols
> Here's the latest out there on the grapevine regarding both Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40,000 in the months ahead.
> 
> via the little birdies:
> Q1
> Late-December-January: Dark Angels
> February-March: Chaos Daemons (still LOTS of chatter of a synchronized release of 40k/WFB Daemons books like Games Workshop did last time)
> March: 40K Miniatures Wave ALPHA (see below)
> Another Hobbit release wave is in this quarter as well.
> 
> Q2
> April: Warhammer Fantasy Armybook
> May: Tau Empire
> June: 40K Miniatures Wave BETA (see below)
> 
> 40K Miniatures waves are said to be:
> Ork wave: with buggy, wartrack, updated Battlewagon, coptas, flashgitz, and tankbustas
> Flyer wave: with: Eldar, Tau, Tyranid, Dark Eldar kits
> The order of those two waves is in contention, but both keep coming up in chatter.
> 
> WFB Army books for 2013 are said to be "pointy ears and 8-pointed star" variety.


Via Faeit212:


> Apocalypse Supplement in the Works
> 
> There are rumors of a 40k supplement coming next summer, and I have heard several different vague hints on what it might be. This evenings rumor bit is a brief, but says that an Apocalypse expansion is being worked on, to update it and bring it into line with 6th edition.
> 
> 
> Could this be next summers expansion? A White Dwarf update?
> 
> via Dave from the Faeit 212 inbox
> i heard something that we could be looking at a new Apoc rulebook soon too bring apoc games in line with 6th edition, could be interesting and im getting excited.


I'll add a modified timeline to the first post as well that we can use to keep track of what was and was not accurate as well.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH

Apocalypse expansion? Yes, yes, yes and gimme, gimme, gimme! You better deliver the goods now GW, cause now I got my hopes up.


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## Necrosis

Aren't release schedules always proven false?


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## Zion

Necrosis said:


> Aren't release schedules always proven false?


Nope. Thus far Hasting's schedule seems pretty good thus far, but it doesn't go all the way through 2013.


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## Necrosis

Zion said:


> Nope. Thus far Hasting's schedule seems pretty good thus far, but it doesn't go all the way through 2013.


I mean the ones that go 6 months and above.


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## Zion

Necrosis said:


> I mean the ones that go 6 months and above.


Sometimes. That's why I've got it set up so we can confirm each month as it arrives.


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## Necrosis

Zion said:


> Nov: Eldar (aka, High Elves in Space. Explains why we haven't seen Finecast Wraithguard yet).


http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440240a&prodId=prod1710002a


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## Zion

Necrosis said:


> http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440240a&prodId=prod1710002a


I did not see those before. I'll fix it, thanks.


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## nevynxxx

Necrosis said:


> http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440240a&prodId=prod1710002a


£37.50?!!! I'd expect them in Wraithbone for that, not bleeding finecast.


Ahem. Sorry.


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## Necrosis

nevynxxx said:


> £37.50?!!! I'd expect them in Wraithbone for that, not bleeding finecast.
> 
> 
> Ahem. Sorry.


Did you see how much they costed before?


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## Zion

nevynxxx said:


> £37.50?!!! I'd expect them in Wraithbone for that, not bleeding finecast.
> 
> 
> Ahem. Sorry.


You didn't hear? Finecast is Wraithbone. It just took them a while to learn how to sing it properly into the molds.


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## nevynxxx

Necrosis said:


> Did you see how much they costed before?


No, which is a good thing. Actually, that price is probably a good thing, it makes me less tempted to build an Eldar army....


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## Tawa

Zion said:


> Jan: Dark Angels (release will be a week late due to the holiday season according to older rumours)


Here's hoping for those DV-style bikes. I've a squadron in need of expansion


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## Necrosis

nevynxxx said:


> No, which is a good thing. Actually, that price is probably a good thing, it makes me less tempted to build an Eldar army....


Until they get updated.


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## GrimzagGorwazza

Awe i was hoping for orks to get some updating this time around. I know eldar and tau have been waiting for ages as well but surely they could squeeze the greenskins in here somwhere.


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## Jace of Ultramar

Tawa said:


> Here's hoping for those DV-style bikes. I've a squadron in need of expansion


Oh, sweet, sweet hope for my DA allies!


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## Achaylus72

What i gather reading these lists for 2013 is that Chaos Space Marines don't get anything new for 2013.

so that rules out these as new plastic kits.

Thousand Sons 
Noise Marines
Plague Marines
Havocs
Chosen
Hellbrutes (non DV version)

GW should have used 2013 to flesh out Chaos with whole new range of plastic kits, but we have to spend a fortune to flesh out bloody expensive Plastic/Fincast Hybrids.

Monkeys running the assylum.


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## Magpie_Oz

Unsubstantiated rumours, what ever their track record, rule out nothing.


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## Zion

Magpie_Oz said:


> Unsubstantiated rumours, what ever their track record, rule out nothing.


All rumours are basically unsubstantiated. That's why they're rumours. We won't know how right or wrong they are until later, so all we can do is keep our fingers crossed and watch.


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## MetalHandkerchief

GrimzagGorwazza said:


> Awe i was hoping for orks to get some updating this time around


Irrational, given how long Eldar, Tau, Tyranids and Daemons have waited, and how new the Orky codex is. Then there's the Dark Angels too, but IMO they shouldn't have a codex of their own but GW likes printing money, so whatever.

Compared to the Tyranid codex the Ork codex is a freaking powerhouse still. And 55% of the Tau codex's wargear, upgrades and special rules are obsolete. Can almost get away with just bringing the FAQ to a battle now and leave the book at home.


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## Zion

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Irrational, given how long Eldar, Tau, Tyranids and Daemons have waited, and how new the Orky codex is. Then there's the Dark Angels too, but IMO they shouldn't have a codex of their own but GW likes printing money, so whatever.
> 
> Compared to the Tyranid codex the Ork codex is a freaking powerhouse still. And 55% of the Tau codex's wargear, upgrades and special rules are obsolete. Can almost get away with just bringing the FAQ to a battle now and leave the book at home.


Let's not start the 'X shouldn't have a codex' thing. If GW killed every codex that people said shouldn't exist we'd all be playing Vanilla Marines.


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## MetalHandkerchief

Zion said:


> Let's not start the 'X shouldn't have a codex' thing. If GW killed every codex that people said shouldn't exist we'd all be playing Vanilla Marines.


I'm not advocating killing anything, I'm advocating putting all the SM special chapters in one book, freeing up valuable R&D time to enrichening the universe with new and interesting armies that don't all look alike and speeding up the codex printing cycle. The game could only be better for it.

Seeing as there are 16 armies total in 40K, and 8 of them are Space Marines or power-armoured derivatives, it's a great crutch for the writers and a detriment to variety.

Besides, footnoting an opinion into an on-topic post is not 'starting' anything, you were the one who decided to obsess on the wrong thing.


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## GrimzagGorwazza

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Irrational, given how long Eldar, Tau, Tyranids and Daemons have waited, and how new the Orky codex is. Then there's the Dark Angels too, but IMO they shouldn't have a codex of their own but GW likes printing money, so whatever.
> 
> Compared to the Tyranid codex the Ork codex is a freaking powerhouse still. And 55% of the Tau codex's wargear, upgrades and special rules are obsolete. Can almost get away with just bringing the FAQ to a battle now and leave the book at home.



Hi MH
Actually Nids and Daemons had new codecies since the last ork dex, orks are still running a 4th edition book the same as Daemons, whilst Nids got updated in 5th (not great updates i'll admit but when that update includes models like the tervigon, mawloch and a host of demon special characters/chariots whilst orks have only recieved a rehash of the forgeworld bommer in plastic form since forth ed you might see where i'm coming from).

I'm not claiming that the ork codex isn't still effective, i've had lot of sucess with my own boys, but that doesn't mean that it didn't get stale a long time ago. Heck when it was first released there were complaints about the lack of character in it. Whilst everyone else out there is getting big living incubators, thunder guppies, dreadknights, voidravens, the last impressive centrepiece model that we could use was an uninspired bomber model that mimicked the ten year old forgeworld version and the stompa back when we were using the third edition codex. 

No one would deny that the Eldar and Tau deserve an update, they've been waiting since 2006, orks and daemons last got updated in 2008 and Nids were only in 2010. Even dark angels (2007) have a newer codex than orks but of course the space marines will get first dibs on a new codex, i just feel sorry for the Black templars who have been waiting since 2005.

I'm not in any way saying that the armies that are getting updated don't deserve it (apart from dark angels), just that i would have liked to see something new for the greenies, even a mini update like daemons got recently with the chariots and such, but alas it seems 2013 is not to be our year.


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## Zion

MetalHandkerchief said:


> I'm not advocating killing anything, I'm advocating putting all the SM special chapters in one book, freeing up valuable R&D time to enrichening the universe with new and interesting armies that don't all look alike and speeding up the codex printing cycle. The game could only be better for it.
> 
> Seeing as there are 16 armies total in 40K, and 8 of them are Space Marines or power-armoured derivatives, it's a great crutch for the writers and a detriment to variety.
> 
> Besides, footnoting an opinion into an on-topic post is not 'starting' anything, you were the one who decided to obsess on the wrong thing.


I didn't "obsess" over anything. You on the other hand regularly post about how "X shouldn't have a codex" which in turn drags the thread off topic.

Here's the reason why they shouldn't kill any codexes:

It makes the game less varied. You may look at it and think "all Marines are the same, so let's get rid of the variant books", but when you look at what GW has been doing to the codexes on their releases they've made the Marines more divergent, more varied, and generally more flavourful.

Now -could- rolling up all the Loyalist Marines into one book work?

Perhaps, but like we can already see with the current Vanilla Marine codex there will be some armies that won't get their proper time in the sun. 

And given the popularity and general saturation of Marines amongst the player base this would only lead to games against Marines feeling more "samey" as the bigger differences were torn out to make them all fit into a single book, not to mention generally piss off the player base in general.

No, instead of dropping a codex, GW needs to make the Marines more divergent. Make the Codex-following armies different than the ones who tend to break it for some reason, make them feel different enough that it keeps away that boring feeling, and then only update them when they start to reach the end of their 5 year lifespan, instead of giving priority to them.

Besides, if you cut down the number of Marine books you only screw over the sculptors. Instead of needing to come up with a couple kits per Marine book they'd need to come up with a dozen or more, which in turn delays everything else.

Yes Marines generally use a lot of the same stuff, but there are differences in how those Marines look, and some of the stuff they use is wholly unique to them. So we'd need even larger Marine waves to satisfy a massive Marine tome.

There, I've "obsessed" over your point. Can we go back to talking about rumours and not how valid you think any one codex is?

EDIT: Just one last point. Currently all three of the writers handle 3-4 codexes each. To handle that thick ass All-Marines-Ever book one of them would need to drop their other projects. This means instead of 9-12 books being in the works we have 7-9 books instead.

Nope still doesn't look like it helps the dev process.

What would help the dev process? Getting a fourth writer in there (-maybe- a fifth). We'd go from 9-12 books to 12-16 books in production at any one time.


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## Magpie_Oz

I think the biggest thing to help the Dev process for any given codex is a desire by GW to sell more miniatures of that Codex, our particular wants and thoughts really don't come into it people will buy what's new and shiny.


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## Tawa

Magpie_Oz said:


> I think the biggest thing to help the Dev process for any given codex is a desire by GW to sell more miniatures of that Codex, our particular wants and thoughts really don't come into it people will buy what's new and shiny.


Got to keep the bean counters happy after all


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## Magpie_Oz

Tawa said:


> Got to keep the bean counters happy after all


Yup that's what it's all about. Forget everything else but the beans.


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## Tawa

I wonder how many of the bean counters actually game?


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## Magpie_Oz

Tawa said:


> I wonder how many of the bean counters actually game?


LOL nice one...... that is a trick question/joke isn't it ?


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## Tawa

Magpie_Oz said:


> LOL nice one...... that is a trick question/joke isn't it ?


Thinking out loud :grin:


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## DreadLordRedAxe

If you really want to see how putting all loyalist marines armies in to one book will look, look no further than the last codex released. You talk about how all the loyalist are so divergent but all the various Traitor Legions are so completely different they should have their own codexes. Getting an example of both your arguments is easy you either get diversity of watered down trash that barely captures the essence of an army.


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## GrimzagGorwazza

DreadLordRedAxe said:


> If you really want to see how putting all loyalist marines armies in to one book will look, look no further than the last codex released. You talk about how all the loyalist are so divergent but all the various Traitor Legions are so completely different they should have their own codexes. Getting an example of both your arguments is easy you either get diversity of watered down trash that barely captures the essence of an army.



but that doesn't necisarily need to be the case. by making a single sm dex or a single csm dex that properly supports the varients this could be avoided. Instead of making a Sm dex and purposfully writing it so that it can't represent Blood angels for example. make a dex which has the units in it for the various non codex chapters and then limit what can be taken. Orks can only take single unit of ardboys. Make it so that in codex :Sm assault squads could effectivly be either blood claws/death company/vanilla assault squds and have a rule that says that "If a unit takes a special trait (death company etc) that no assault unit may take another trait other than vanilla" or have the person select what type of marines they are playing from the start and effect the units which they can take. 
So many units are interchangable between the different marines with a few acceptions that it shouldn't be hard to capture the flavour of the army with a single (larger than the current one) dex. But GW will never do it because it means they can't spread out their SM sales so much by rereleasing the same stuff as a slightly tweaked army 8 months down the line. 
I think the problem is that there are two sides of the argument, Space marines get a lot of love from GW in one flavour or another. With multiple codecies to cover the various different factions and their diversity. However a lot of the other races in the 40k universe have just as many variances but instead of getting a codex for ech of these they are forced to fit the variances into a single dex. Eldar craftworlds, CSm legions, Ork clans, tyranid hive fleets, IG formations...all have been listed as having wildly differing abilities but instead of getting full codecies to cover these flavours we end up with single units in a single codex and counts as rules to represent the difference. 
Why should a Blood angel player get a whole seperate codex when an ork player using the Snakebite clan is forced to use the standard army list and just counts as all of the units? 
If space marines get multiple codecies then surely the other races should as well, if the other races are being forced to use only a single codex then why shouldn't space marines have the same restriction?
As it stnds it's very much a case of one rule for space marines and another for every other race in the 40k universe. Where the last few editions of the rules have streamlined and limited a mayority of the armies Marines have been expanding.

Something that just doesn't sit right with a lot of non marine players. Unfortunately pissing and moaning about it doesn't seem to be doing a lot of good as the trend continues unabated. instead i'll get off my soapbox now, have a cold squig brew and remember the good old days.


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## Zion

And this is why I dislike it when people mention "I don't think X should have it's own codex"....Alright, I'll respond to this and then post something more relevant to the actual thread topic.



DreadLordRedAxe said:


> If you really want to see how putting all loyalist marines armies in to one book will look, look no further than the last codex released. You talk about how all the loyalist are so divergent but all the various Traitor Legions are so completely different they should have their own codexes. Getting an example of both your arguments is easy you either get diversity of watered down trash that barely captures the essence of an army.


I'm going to try to keep this short so I'm going to summarize into a few points: 

1. Traitor Legions don't exist anymore as Legions. Yes we all wish it weren't true, but according to how GW wants to handle it right now, there just aren't full Legions of Traitors marching into Imperium Space. There are massed war bands and the like, but no real full massed traitor legions.

2. Those divergant codex books allow you to play Traitor Legions too. Yes you'll look like a tool if you codex hop, but if you REALLY want to play an Assault Marine Heavy Night Lords army, and you take the time to model everything up and make it look good, then no one is going to really say anything in the end. You get rid of the divergent codexes, you get rid of this option of play.

3. You say watered down trash, I say the codex that's potentially setting the tone for 6th edition. If 6th edition 40k is anything like 8th edition Fantasy then we're going to see a lot of evening out of the playing field as new books get released. It's going to be rough for a while but having books were we can't just break the game or have to take certain choices to compete is a good thing not a bad one. I'm hoping more books, not less are like the CSM one because it'll bring the game back to an even keel between all the books.

4. Before anyone brings up how great, ect. the 3.5 book was, I'm just going to put it plainly: there was no way in hell we were getting that thing back. It was the Grey Knights/Necrons/Whatever Broken Codex We Bitch About Next of 3rd edition. Period. Did it have a lot of choice? Sure. But that was poorly balanced, and attracted power gamers galore who didn't play things based on what they liked but by how much ass it could kick in a game.

I'm glad it's gone, and frankly it can stay that way too.



GrimzagGorwazza said:


> but that doesn't necisarily need to be the case. by making a single sm dex or a single csm dex that properly supports the varients this could be avoided.


If this was what GW did from the get-go, I'd agree with you. The problem is now there is just too much going on. To fit it into one book you'd need to cut large chunks of the codexes out, and you risk not giving enough spotlight to any of the chapters (for example Iron Hands didn't get a character in the last Vanilla Dex), and generally you're going to kill a portion of the community by doing this.




GrimzagGorwazza said:


> Instead of making a Sm dex and purposfully writing it so that it can't represent Blood angels for example. make a dex which has the units in it for the various non codex chapters and then limit what can be taken.


Chaos Marines 3.5 did this and it was a broken mess. It had a lot of options, but they were poorly balanced and it just made the game worse. Could it be done correctly? Yes. But you'd need one developer working on a very thick Marine book and nothing else for 18+ months. It's not good development time for the money from the standpoint of a business that can have a developer working on 3-4 books at the same time like they do now.

And if they then did this with Marines and Chaos Marines where both had super thick books of just about every variant ever, then you have 2/3 developers potentially out of the loop for a year and a half if not longer. This just isn't acceptable from a development standpoint as both 40K AND Fantasy suffer (not to mention any of the specialist games they decided to do).




GrimzagGorwazza said:


> Orks can only take single unit of ardboys. Make it so that in codex :Sm assault squads could effectivly be either blood claws/death company/vanilla assault squds and have a rule that says that "If a unit takes a special trait (death company etc) that no assault unit may take another trait other than vanilla" or have the person select what type of marines they are playing from the start and effect the units which they can take.


See my points about about development time and balance. Can something be done? Sure. But we have a team of 3 main developers, who exactly knows how many below them exactly, and that's pretty much it. This means Devs are a finite resource and need to be handled so their output makes up for the 18+ month dev time on a single book.



GrimzagGorwazza said:


> So many units are interchangable between the different marines with a few acceptions that it shouldn't be hard to capture the flavour of the army with a single (larger than the current one) dex.


In no paticular order, off the top of my head only:
Only the DA, BA and Vanilla Dexes share Tactical Squads, and the BA ones have the Red Thirst rule. DA can field all bike and all Terminator armies (Vanilla copied the all bike option off of them though). BT can field a massive PA hoarde army, Space Wolves can field WS3 PA hoarde like no one's buisness, and don't have Sergeants in any of their squads. Space Wolf Devastators split fire, BA ones can become Fearless (Red Thirst). BA Vindicators are fast, BT Land Raiders can ignore the Lance Rule with an upgrade and are Dedicated Transports for the entire army. BA have Assault Marines as Troops, and have what is basically the best close combat walker in the entire game (Death Company Dread).

Oh, and Grey Knights are an entire army of Psykers with Force Weapons who also have the ability to take Henchmen squads. They also don't have Melta weapons or Lascannons.

Not every Marine army plays the same, even if they use the same models. And in some cases, they don't even share the same exact statline.

So what is the way they're all the same? Typically they all have "And They Shall Know No Fear" (unless supplanted by another rule), they have Power Armour (unless replaced by Scout, Terminator or Artificer Armour) and they're T4 (unless hit with a Rad Grenade).

FOC, play style and ruleset sets each of these armies apart allowing them to be different. 

Which frankly is a good thing, because even before they became THIS divergent you were going to see your average player start with Marines (dependable statline, easy to learn, forgiving if you fuck it all up, and they're bad-ass post humans in power armour. Oh and you don't need as many models to start them as Guard, Tyranids, Orks, Sisters, or Tau) at leastu they can play different things. Hell it even allows people who play Marines to play wildly different lists despite playing PA armies. If we had to work out of only one book the armies would be more of the same and the fucking internet would be telling people the best (and thus only lists we'd typically see) lists in the book ruining the diversity we have now.



GrimzagGorwazza said:


> But GW will never do it because it means they can't spread out their SM sales so much by rereleasing the same stuff as a slightly tweaked army 8 months down the line.


Your average Marine codex goes longer than 8 months between updates. Given that the normal lifespan of a codex (as per a discussion with the devs) is supposed to be 5 years (which for the Vanilla codex would be 2013) and we haven't seen it come up as a rumour yet, I think we're fairly safe in saying that Marines aren't the only priority.



GrimzagGorwazza said:


> I think the problem is that there are two sides of the argument, Space marines get a lot of love from GW in one flavour or another. With multiple codecies to cover the various different factions and their diversity. However a lot of the other races in the 40k universe have just as many variances but instead of getting a codex for ech of these they are forced to fit the variances into a single dex.


Without an overhaul/additions to the fluff there really isn't THAT much to add to most codex books.




GrimzagGorwazza said:


> Eldar craftworlds,


All operate almost identically. Now if you said Exodites I'd likely agree with you, but even then they really just need some options that fit their Maiden World dwelling ways.



GrimzagGorwazza said:


> CSm legions,


Again, they're aren't any true legions any more (and even if they are they are further split into factions and warbands). And most of the odd ones (Night Lords for example) can be covered by some good count-as. Strangely there isn't a way to really represent Alpha Legions hit and run/ambush tactics with any of the Marine codexes so they're they odd duck out.



GrimzagGorwazza said:


> Ork clans,


I was always under the impression that the codex was intended to represent WAAAGHs not clans, but I can agree more options to build as specific to a clan or as varied as a Waagh could be good. But you wouldn't need new books for this unless GW broke the different clans into much more different rule sets.




GrimzagGorwazza said:


> tyranid hive fleets


From my understanding Tyranids operate essentially the same. It's only a few specific special character Nids that have popped up in specific fleets, and even then I'm sure the Hive Fleets have a way of communicating these things to each other.




GrimzagGorwazza said:


> IG formations...


For the most part all operate off of the same basic doctrine: send bodies in until the objective is taken and then hold. The codex IG really don't have different doctrines that can't be represented in the book itself, though everyone will play Cadia anyway due to them having the nicest plastic models, and Creed....

And the Elysians, and Krieg, both of which are Forge World creations (as are some of the tanks in the current Codex) have FW books to support them and how they operate differently than your traditional Guard Army.




GrimzagGorwazza said:


> all have been listed as having wildly differing abilities but instead of getting full codecies to cover these flavours we end up with single units in a single codex and counts as rules to represent the difference.


I beg to differ on "wildly". You gave options that (save for perhaps Exodites) really could be covered by adding more options into the codexes they have. These differences don't change the basic way you build the list or how it plays (Tyranids would still need Synapse, Guardsmen are still BS3 hoardes, Eldar are still too costly in the current edition, and Orks would still have the Mob Rule, Waaagh and Furious Charge).




GrimzagGorwazza said:


> Why should a Blood angel player get a whole seperate codex when an ork player using the Snakebite clan is forced to use the standard army list and just counts as all of the units?


Because other than a thematic choice (riding boars, which SHOULD be an option in the codex), Snakebites don't change the FOC, or basic rules of the army. And it isn't like you can't represent them either. The easiest way in my mind would to be do a foot Ork list with a unit or two of bikers using these models to represent the bikes. Is it count as? Yes. Is it pretty frikkin' sweet? Hell yes. Should it have been a Calvary option in the codex? Damn skippy. 




GrimzagGorwazza said:


> If space marines get multiple codecies then surely the other races should as well, if the other races are being forced to use only a single codex then why shouldn't space marines have the same restriction?


Maybe it's because the Marine dexes vary up their FOC, rules, unit types and even available weapons enough to warrant it? 



GrimzagGorwazza said:


> As it stnds it's very much a case of one rule for space marines and another for every other race in the 40k universe. Where the last few editions of the rules have streamlined and limited a mayority of the armies Marines have been expanding.


Firstly Marines have always been at the forefront of 40k, even dating back to Rogue Trader. Secondly they get more focus because in all honestly the story is about humanity versus the alien threats that want to destroy it. What is the best poster boy for humanity? 8 foot tall superdudes in armour.

If you thought 40K was about anything else you must have missed the memo. It always has, and always will be about the Space Marines first. It's just the way it goes.



GrimzagGorwazza said:


> Something that just doesn't sit right with a lot of non marine players. Unfortunately pissing and moaning about it doesn't seem to be doing a lot of good as the trend continues unabated. instead i'll get off my soapbox now, have a cold squig brew and remember the good old days.


I play Sisters and I've accepted that fact. In fact I take pride in the fact that my "diet Marines" (or whatever you want to refer to Sisters as) are better at killing Marines than anything else I face. 

As for treating this as a new development, it's not. I've got a copy of Rogue Trader on my shelf, and a copy of the 3rd edition Rulebook. Both cover Marines and the Imperium more heavily than anyone else. It's always been that way, and always will be. If anyone can't handle that they might as well find a new hobby because it isn't changing now matter how much they bitch.

That long tangent covered, I'm putting my news post into a new post so people can skip this one if they want to and go straight to that one.


----------



## Zion

And now the news:

From *Faeit212*:



> Apocalypse Coming Soon?
> 
> If you recall from this weekend, we were discussing briefly that there are rumors of Apocalypse being redone and being brought up to speed for 6th edition. While the rumor was brief, it seems that the Apocalypse formations have been pulled from the Games Workshop website according to Loken over at Apocalypse 40k.
> 
> 
> The apocalypse expansion is very old, dating back to the end of 4th edition, it really is time to get an update. Is this the expansion book for next summer? Its starting to look like its separate from it if GW is already pulling the datasheets and formations. Sooner is probably better than later, so bring it on... I'm ready for some big games.
> 
> Please remember that these are rumors. Standard salt required.
> 
> via Loken over at Apocalypse 40k
> _A few different sources are saying that we will be seeing Apocalypse Second Edition soon. Apocalypse formations have been pulled from the Games Workshop website. If you still need them, join the Apocalypse40K forum. Various GW employees have said the Datasheets and formations were removed as they are obsolete and about to be replaced. GW typically pulls all the old merchandise from the shelves in order to get ready for the new releases._


I can confirm that yes, indeed the Apoc formations are gone. In fact, ALL the old articles are gone. I can't however be sure of when this happened, or if it really means anything. But it is an interesting point in this rumour's favour.


----------



## Tawa

Zion said:


> And this is why I dislike it when people mention "I don't think X should have it's own codex"....Alright, I'll respond to this and then post something more relevant to the actual thread topic.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to try to keep this short so I'm going to summarize into a few points:
> 
> 1. Traitor Legions don't exist anymore as Legions. Yes we all wish it weren't true, but according to how GW wants to handle it right now, there just aren't full Legions of Traitors marching into Imperium Space. There are massed war bands and the like, but no real full massed traitor legions.
> 
> 2. Those divergant codex books allow you to play Traitor Legions too. Yes you'll look like a tool if you codex hop, but if you REALLY want to play an Assault Marine Heavy Night Lords army, and you take the time to model everything up and make it look good, then no one is going to really say anything in the end. You get rid of the divergent codexes, you get rid of this option of play.
> 
> 3. You say watered down trash, I say the codex that's potentially setting the tone for 6th edition. If 6th edition 40k is anything like 8th edition Fantasy then we're going to see a lot of evening out of the playing field as new books get released. It's going to be rough for a while but having books were we can't just break the game or have to take certain choices to compete is a good thing not a bad one. I'm hoping more books, not less are like the CSM one because it'll bring the game back to an even keel between all the books.
> 
> 4. Before anyone brings up how great, ect. the 3.5 book was, I'm just going to put it plainly: there was no way in hell we were getting that thing back. It was the Grey Knights/Necrons/Whatever Broken Codex We Bitch About Next of 3rd edition. Period. Did it have a lot of choice? Sure. But that was poorly balanced, and attracted power gamers galore who didn't play things based on what they liked but by how much ass it could kick in a game.
> 
> I'm glad it's gone, and frankly it can stay that way too.
> 
> 
> 
> If this was what GW did from the get-go, I'd agree with you. The problem is now there is just too much going on. To fit it into one book you'd need to cut large chunks of the codexes out, and you risk not giving enough spotlight to any of the chapters (for example Iron Hands didn't get a character in the last Vanilla Dex), and generally you're going to kill a portion of the community by doing this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chaos Marines 3.5 did this and it was a broken mess. It had a lot of options, but they were poorly balanced and it just made the game worse. Could it be done correctly? Yes. But you'd need one developer working on a very thick Marine book and nothing else for 18+ months. It's not good development time for the money from the standpoint of a business that can have a developer working on 3-4 books at the same time like they do now.
> 
> And if they then did this with Marines and Chaos Marines where both had super thick books of just about every variant ever, then you have 2/3 developers potentially out of the loop for a year and a half if not longer. This just isn't acceptable from a development standpoint as both 40K AND Fantasy suffer (not to mention any of the specialist games they decided to do).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See my points about about development time and balance. Can something be done? Sure. But we have a team of 3 main developers, who exactly knows how many below them exactly, and that's pretty much it. This means Devs are a finite resource and need to be handled so their output makes up for the 18+ month dev time on a single book.
> 
> 
> 
> In no paticular order, off the top of my head only:
> Only the DA, BA and Vanilla Dexes share Tactical Squads, and the BA ones have the Red Thirst rule. DA can field all bike and all Terminator armies (Vanilla copied the all bike option off of them though). BT can field a massive PA hoarde army, Space Wolves can field WS3 PA hoarde like no one's buisness, and don't have Sergeants in any of their squads. Space Wolf Devastators split fire, BA ones can become Fearless (Red Thirst). BA Vindicators are fast, BT Land Raiders can ignore the Lance Rule with an upgrade and are Dedicated Transports for the entire army. BA have Assault Marines as Troops, and have what is basically the best close combat walker in the entire game (Death Company Dread).
> 
> Oh, and Grey Knights are an entire army of Psykers with Force Weapons who also have the ability to take Henchmen squads. They also don't have Melta weapons or Lascannons.
> 
> Not every Marine army plays the same, even if they use the same models. And in some cases, they don't even share the same exact statline.
> 
> So what is the way they're all the same? Typically they all have "And They Shall Know No Fear" (unless supplanted by another rule), they have Power Armour (unless replaced by Scout, Terminator or Artificer Armour) and they're T4 (unless hit with a Rad Grenade).
> 
> FOC, play style and ruleset sets each of these armies apart allowing them to be different.
> 
> Which frankly is a good thing, because even before they became THIS divergent you were going to see your average player start with Marines (dependable statline, easy to learn, forgiving if you fuck it all up, and they're bad-ass post humans in power armour. Oh and you don't need as many models to start them as Guard, Tyranids, Orks, Sisters, or Tau) at leastu they can play different things. Hell it even allows people who play Marines to play wildly different lists despite playing PA armies. If we had to work out of only one book the armies would be more of the same and the fucking internet would be telling people the best (and thus only lists we'd typically see) lists in the book ruining the diversity we have now.
> 
> 
> 
> Your average Marine codex goes longer than 8 months between updates. Given that the normal lifespan of a codex (as per a discussion with the devs) is supposed to be 5 years (which for the Vanilla codex would be 2013) and we haven't seen it come up as a rumour yet, I think we're fairly safe in saying that Marines aren't the only priority.
> 
> 
> 
> Without an overhaul/additions to the fluff there really isn't THAT much to add to most codex books.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All operate almost identically. Now if you said Exodites I'd likely agree with you, but even then they really just need some options that fit their Maiden World dwelling ways.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, they're aren't any true legions any more (and even if they are they are further split into factions and warbands). And most of the odd ones (Night Lords for example) can be covered by some good count-as. Strangely there isn't a way to really represent Alpha Legions hit and run/ambush tactics with any of the Marine codexes so they're they odd duck out.
> 
> 
> 
> I was always under the impression that the codex was intended to represent WAAAGHs not clans, but I can agree more options to build as specific to a clan or as varied as a Waagh could be good. But you wouldn't need new books for this unless GW broke the different clans into much more different rule sets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From my understanding Tyranids operate essentially the same. It's only a few specific special character Nids that have popped up in specific fleets, and even then I'm sure the Hive Fleets have a way of communicating these things to each other.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the most part all operate off of the same basic doctrine: send bodies in until the objective is taken and then hold. The codex IG really don't have different doctrines that can't be represented in the book itself, though everyone will play Cadia anyway due to them having the nicest plastic models, and Creed....
> 
> And the Elysians, and Krieg, both of which are Forge World creations (as are some of the tanks in the current Codex) have FW books to support them and how they operate differently than your traditional Guard Army.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I beg to differ on "wildly". You gave options that (save for perhaps Exodites) really could be covered by adding more options into the codexes they have. These differences don't change the basic way you build the list or how it plays (Tyranids would still need Synapse, Guardsmen are still BS3 hoardes, Eldar are still too costly in the current edition, and Orks would still have the Mob Rule, Waaagh and Furious Charge).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because other than a thematic choice (riding boars, which SHOULD be an option in the codex), Snakebites don't change the FOC, or basic rules of the army. And it isn't like you can't represent them either. The easiest way in my mind would to be do a foot Ork list with a unit or two of bikers using these models to represent the bikes. Is it count as? Yes. Is it pretty frikkin' sweet? Hell yes. Should it have been a Calvary option in the codex? Damn skippy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it's because the Marine dexes vary up their FOC, rules, unit types and even available weapons enough to warrant it?
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly Marines have always been at the forefront of 40k, even dating back to Rogue Trader. Secondly they get more focus because in all honestly the story is about humanity versus the alien threats that want to destroy it. What is the best poster boy for humanity? 8 foot tall superdudes in armour.
> 
> If you thought 40K was about anything else you must have missed the memo. It always has, and always will be about the Space Marines first. It's just the way it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> I play Sisters and I've accepted that fact. In fact I take pride in the fact that my "diet Marines" (or whatever you want to refer to Sisters as) are better at killing Marines than anything else I face.
> 
> As for treating this as a new development, it's not. I've got a copy of Rogue Trader on my shelf, and a copy of the 3rd edition Rulebook. Both cover Marines and the Imperium more heavily than anyone else. It's always been that way, and always will be. If anyone can't handle that they might as well find a new hobby because it isn't changing now matter how much they bitch.
> 
> That long tangent covered, I'm putting my news post into a new post so people can skip this one if they want to and go straight to that one.


:goodpost:


----------



## Magpie_Oz

When I first logged on to GW this morning at about 0800 Oz time the site was "Under Maintenance" a sure sign something is on the way. It seems they do it at that time to be ready for wake up time in UK I guess.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Well, I for one can't wait to see what new stuff is coming out in the coming year. I may not play all the armies GW offers, but, I know people who do and I like seeing reactions to what they like and don't like. I'm in complete anticipation of the (hopefully) upcoming DA and what new kits they bring as well as the upcoming Orks. A friend of mine is just hoping that an Eldar 'dex is in the pipeline too.


----------



## Zion

Calling the DA one confirmed. We're already seeing them in Jan's WD (for the lucky folks who have it). Only 4 more weeks until we see if Daemons really are next!


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> Calling the DA one confirmed. We're already seeing them in Jan's WD (for the lucky folks who have it). Only 4 more weeks until we see if Daemons really are next!


Well, if they are then hopefully everything else in your posts will follow too.


----------



## Necrosis

Zion said:


> Calling the DA one confirmed. We're already seeing them in Jan's WD (for the lucky folks who have it). Only 4 more weeks until we see if Daemons really are next!


I don't understand why GW would do Daemons next after the white dwarf update. Seems strange to me.


----------



## Zion

Necrosis said:


> I don't understand why GW would do Daemons next after the white dwarf update. Seems strange to me.


There is a rumour that GW might be trying to drive a little interest up in armies by releasing something for that army a few months out and then releasing the full book which has that early release stuff in it.

Think of it as bait to catch the customer's wallet with.

Now I'm trying to recall who else got one of these releases recently (I mean besides the Space Marine and Ork flyers) but I'm coming up blank. But I'm pretty sure there was one that got an update after that.


----------



## Zion

So update: Warriors of Chaos push Daemons out of the February slot, showing that GW's plan of having things ready to go a year out means they can completely screw with expectations at any time (since WoC where originally slated for last October).

No idea what this will do to the schedule, but I'm willing to wait and see before getting too up in arms about it.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Zion said:


> So update: Warriors of Chaos push Daemons out of the February slot, showing that GW's plan of having things ready to go a year out means they can completely screw with expectations at any time (since WoC where originally slated for last October).
> 
> No idea what this will do to the schedule, but I'm willing to wait and see before getting too up in arms about it.


They haven't actually changed anything, WOC were always an early feb release, release dates don't change anywhere near as often as people think


----------



## Zion

Bindi Baji said:


> They haven't actually changed anything, WOC were always an early feb release, release dates don't change anywhere near as often as people think


Hastings was predicting an Oct release date (he was confused to see the Warshrine but not this stuff which he'd said he was expecting when the Warshrine came out), but that could have been early waves throwing him off I suppose.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Zion said:


> Hastings was predicting an Oct release date (he was confused to see the Warshrine but not this stuff which he'd said he was expecting when the Warshrine came out), but that could have been early waves throwing him off I suppose.


It's either down to rumour mongers having to guess at dates or being given dates before the final release date is definitive I suspect,
you will often hear or see rumour mongers apologising for dates being slightly out


----------



## bitsandkits

didnt GW do this last febuary too but that time it was the totally unexpected Lord of the Rings release? I think they are just fucking with the rumour mongers to discredit them, alot of them lost face over the LOTR surprise last year if memory serves.


----------



## Bindi Baji

bitsandkits said:


> I think they are just fucking with the rumour mongers to discredit them, alot of them lost face over the LOTR surprise last year if memory serves.


It's quite believable, both Dr Who's and Lost's creators have admitted to putting out false information


----------



## EmbraCraig

bitsandkits said:


> didnt GW do this last febuary too but that time it was the totally unexpected Lord of the Rings release? I think they are just fucking with the rumour mongers to discredit them, alot of them lost face over the LOTR surprise last year if memory serves.


Maybe it's the old spy thriller classic trick - give different wrong information to different people to flush out the leaks...

*puts tin foil hat back on*


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Has anything been hinted at for Space Marines during this year? I'm not a Dark Angels player so the release this month didn't really include anything for me on a personal interest level.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Has anything been hinted at for Space Marines during this year? .


apart from dark angels and some finecast due in a few months, not yet no....


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Bindi Baji said:


> apart from dark angels and some finecast due in a few months, not yet no....


 Ok. I'm guessing the Fine Cast is issues of models previously only available as metal.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Ok. I'm guessing the Fine Cast is issues of models previously only available as metal.


yup


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Has anything been hinted at for Space Marines during this year? I'm not a Dark Angels player so the release this month didn't really include anything for me on a personal interest level.


Not so far, no.


----------



## EmbraCraig

There was quite a bit of stuff on the 2013 'may or may not have been real' list. Some of it could have been standard marines, some of it may have been Black Templar... none of it was the DA stuff that we've had, but it was meant to be stuff for the 2nd half of the year so that was to be expected. Guess we'll find out over the course of the year if any of it turns out to have been legit or not.



> 200462312010203 Space Marine Astartes Battle Fortress Defence Wall PL
> 200462412010202 Space Marine Astartes Battle Fortress Tower / Pillar of Heroes PL 02 cc
> 200462512340209 Space Marine Astartes Battle Fortress Monastery PL
> 200470512040203 Space Marine Land Avenger PL
> 200468512010203 Space Marine Praetor Warmachine PL
> 200465411540206 Space Marine Bike Squadron / Crusader Bike Squadron PL
> 200467830740205 Space Marine Skyshatter Cannon RE
> 200469630140209 Space Marine Terminator First Hand RE
> 200469230140203 Space Marine Librarian with Jump Pack RE
> 200462811440204 Space Marine Neophytes PL
> 200464511440201 Space Marine Techmarine with Artificer Squad PL
> 200468011440204 Space Marine Sword Brethren / Nightflame Veteran Squad PL
> 200472230140203 Space Marine Librarian Epistolary RE
> 200475630110203 Paladin Marshall Sieghelm RE
> 200470612040202 Space Marine Land Avenger Vulkan / Land Avenger Invictus PL
> 200470331080275 Space Marine Bionics Upgrade Pack RE
> 200470231080276 Space Marine Defender Upgrade Pack RE
> 200471330110208 Iron Father Maalthun RE
> 200471730110204 Chapter Master Tu’Shan RE
> 200480130110202 Severus Agemman, Regent of Ultramar RE
> 200480630110207 Helveticus the Ancient, Bearer of Honour RE
> 200461211440203 Space Marine Scouts with Astartes Grenade Launchers PL
> 200467911540205 Space Marine Gale Claw Supremacy Fighter PL
> 200465011440203 Space Marine Space Marine Tactical Squad PL
> 200465512010202 Space Marine Land Raider Medusa PL


----------



## Tawa

> Space Marine Astartes Battle Fortress Defence Wall
> Space Marine Astartes Battle Fortress Tower / Pillar of Heroes
> Space Marine Astartes Battle Fortress Monastery
> Space Marine Land Avenger
> Space Marine Praetor Warmachine
> Space Marine Skyshatter Cannon RE
> Space Marine Land Avenger Vulkan / Land Avenger Invictus
> Space Marine Bionics Upgrade Pack
> Space Marine Defender Upgrade Pack
> Space Marine Gale Claw Supremacy Fighter
> Space Marine Land Raider Medusa


This list makes me strangely giddy. And also causes me a great pre-emptive aching pain in the wallet region.....


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

I remember that list of things from... August? Sounds about right.



Zion said:


> Not so far, no.


 Which saddened me a bit.


----------



## Suijin

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I remember that list of things from... August? Sounds about right.
> 
> Which saddened me a bit.


Yeah but the rumor was that it was all stuff that is coming out after June 2013, so we won't really know for awhile yet. Hardest to prove or disprove such a rumor with the long timeline before anything would come out.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Suijin said:


> Yeah but the rumor was that it was all stuff that is coming out after June 2013, so we won't really know for awhile yet. Hardest to prove or disprove such a rumor with the long timeline before anything would come out.


The list is at least partially wrong, it may just be a matter of timing, but I am unconvinced


----------



## Tawa

Bindi Baji said:


> The list is at least partially wrong, it may just be a matter of timing, but I am unconvinced


*sticks fingers in ears*


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Tawa said:


> *sticks fingers in ears*


I want it to be true too, but, we have to realize that portions of the list may be false.


----------



## Tawa

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I want it to be true too, but, we have to realize that portions of the list may be false.


Not listening.....


----------



## Bindi Baji

Tawa said:


> Not listening.....


Just in case.......

http://www.samaritans.org/


----------



## Tawa

:laugh:


----------



## Suijin

Bindi Baji said:


> The list is at least partially wrong, it may just be a matter of timing, but I am unconvinced


What is wrong with the list?


----------



## Oldenangry

Tawa said:


> Sorry, some Blood Bowl love? :grin:
> Count me in!


I'm right there with you!

Love me some Blood Bowl.


----------



## Tawa

Bindi Baji said:


> The list is at least partially wrong, it may just be a matter of timing, but I am unconvinced


HERETIC!!! Oh, wait..... :blush:



Oldenangry said:


> I'm right there with you!
> 
> Love me some Blood Bowl.


I need to dust off my copy and give my _subtly_ named human team an airing


----------



## Zion

I've updated the first post with the updated schedule and put the old stuff behind spoiler tags because it was out of date and mostly wrong.


----------



## revilo44

Hi guys is it not great to have faeit 212 back
Well here is a release schedule I know it not in 2013 but it still links to this thread

From an anonymous source at Faeit 212
*Wolves early / middle 2014, Inquisition fall / end 2014, Blood Angels fall / end 2015.
*Not many releases for Wolves, just specific flyer variants.
*Finecast big predator wolf.
*Wulven units included.*They also get almost all Marine releases till then, apart of flyers.
*Inquisition all three ordos, two different armies (grey knights and sororitas). Inquisitors can replace IG HQs.
*Blood Angels on early re-design.


----------



## dkoz

Blood angles codex needs some love, Emperor please guide them and soon.


----------



## Mokuren

revilo44 said:


> *Inquisition all three ordos, two different armies (grey knights and sororitas). Inquisitors can replace IG HQs.


I'm only going to believe in the existence of anything of the sort the second I will have the physical copy of the codex in my own language and in clutched tightly between my own two hands.

Before then, this is wishlisting so wild I wouldn't even dare it in my worst dreams.


----------



## revilo44

Mokuren said:


> I'm only going to believe in the existence of anything of the sort the second I will have the physical copy of the codex in my own language and in clutched tightly between my own two hands.
> 
> Before then, this is wishlisting so wild I wouldn't even dare it in my worst dreams.


I don't play the two Inquisition army's so i wont know if it is Wishlisting but I thought i just post it anyway


----------



## Zion

revilo44 said:


> Hi guys is it not great to have faeit 212 back
> Well here is a release schedule I know it not in 2013 but it still links to this thread
> 
> From an anonymous source at Faeit 212
> *Wolves early / middle 2014, Inquisition fall / end 2014, Blood Angels fall / end 2015.
> *Not many releases for Wolves, just specific flyer variants.
> *Finecast big predator wolf.
> *Wulven units included.*They also get almost all Marine releases till then, apart of flyers.
> *Inquisition all three ordos, two different armies (grey knights and sororitas). Inquisitors can replace IG HQs.
> *Blood Angels on early re-design.


Inquisition is a GK book only thing now. Sisters reverted back to no Inquisition in the WD Codex. And you already can play all 3 of the Inquisitor types in the game. The only issue is that you can't play them with full Henchmen, but you can easilly use allies to achieve things like Deathwatch ( Example: Space Marines, Xenos Inquisitor and Henchmen Squad).

I personally don't like where Blood Angels are in that release schedule because Mid-2015 is the Fantasy 9th Ed release so that should be the focus come fall 2015.


----------



## spanner94ezekiel

As a general naysayer, I have a couple of completely uninformed and opinionated points to make on the Wolves:

1. It doesn't make too much sense for Wolves to have fliers, as isn't there stuff in their lore about them preferring to keep their feet on the ground? Or would these fliers be piloted by Sky Claws again (and thus have associated limitations)? 

2. I'm skeptical about Wulfen - we didn't see them in the last codex and no hint (not even in FW - excepting Bran Redmaw) has been given about future inclusion. The last codex was pretty extensive and definitely rebranded the Wolves as their own army with all that unique "wolfy" wargear. So why not include Wulfen then? IMO GWS won't produce codex-based Wulfen units, but I don't really have a reason why they wouldn't.

Unfounded ramblings for certain, but on the whole I am skeptical of a Wolves update. Especially if we don't see Eldar (we should be), Orks and even Tyranids before then. I'm not going to bother mentioning Sisters or Templars. Also, aren't Blood Angels marginally older than Space Wolves, codex-wise. But then again this may be my biased Dark Angels side not wanting Wolves to get a new codex...


----------



## Zion

spanner94ezekiel said:


> As a general naysayer, I have a couple of completely uninformed and opinionated points to make on the Wolves:
> 
> 1. It doesn't make too much sense for Wolves to have fliers, as isn't there stuff in their lore about them preferring to keep their feet on the ground? Or would these fliers be piloted by Sky Claws again (and thus have associated limitations)?
> 
> 2. I'm skeptical about Wulfen - we didn't see them in the last codex and no hint (not even in FW - excepting Bran Redmaw) has been given about future inclusion. The last codex was pretty extensive and definitely rebranded the Wolves as their own army with all that unique "wolfy" wargear. So why not include Wulfen then? IMO GWS won't produce codex-based Wulfen units, but I don't really have a reason why they wouldn't.
> 
> Unfounded ramblings for certain, but on the whole I am skeptical of a Wolves update. Especially if we don't see Eldar (we should be), Orks and even Tyranids before then. I'm not going to bother mentioning Sisters or Templars. Also, aren't Blood Angels marginally older than Space Wolves, codex-wise. But then again this may be my biased Dark Angels side not wanting Wolves to get a new codex...


Eldar are next month, so no need to wait until 2014 for that. And with GW age of a book means nothing. Or Templars would have been the first books of 6th.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

I'm wondering if the October "Space Marine" codex will be the Black Templars, as to bring them up to speed, or if it will actually be Codex: Space Marines? 
I wonder because I'm not among those who believe the Templars are getting folded into Codex: Space Marines.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I'm wondering if the October "Space Marine" codex will be the Black Templars, as to bring them up to speed, or if it will actually be Codex: Space Marines?
> I wonder because I'm not among those who believe the Templars are getting folded into Codex: Space Marines.


I'm rather hoping so myself, just because they really need it. I'm not counting the Templars down and out just yet either. I just think they're falling into the same trap Sisters are in, where the dev team doesn't know how to expand the faction and they languish in limbo for long periods of time.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> I'm rather hoping so myself, just because they really need it. I'm not counting the Templars down and out just yet either. I just think they're falling into the same trap Sisters are in, where the dev team doesn't know how to expand the faction and they languish in limbo for long periods of time.


To me, that's an easy enough fix in setting them up as mounted cavalry with lances, crusadres and so on. As if 40K hasn't borrowed from history before? I think when the BT codex hits its going to suyrprise the living daylights out of the majority who were under the impression of them getting added to C:SM.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> To me, that's an easy enough fix in setting them up as mounted cavalry with lances, crusadres and so on. As if 40K hasn't borrowed from history before? I think when the BT codex hits its going to suyrprise the living daylights out of the majority who were under the impression of them getting added to C:SM.


Thing is that I don't feel we need another ridiculous mount to support the 1+ ton Marines who are riding them. But yes, they need to update them, add some more stuff and get the ball rolling some more. I'd love for them to serve as the template for chapters on a penitent crusade as well, but we'll see.


----------



## Fallen

eldar codex looks cool, everything else kinda meh, will need to see it in person.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> Thing is that I don't feel we need another ridiculous mount to support the 1+ ton Marines who are riding them. But yes, they need to update them, add some more stuff and get the ball rolling some more. I'd love for them to serve as the template for chapters on a penitent crusade as well, but we'll see.


Well, I would just throw them on bikes and have a close combat Fast Attack unit with BT exclusive weapons. 

I'd like to see them equipped for a Crusade as well, but, I'm sure that's been (hopefully) taken into consideration for their update.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I'm wondering if the October "Space Marine" codex will be the Black Templars, as to bring them up to speed, or if it will actually be Codex: Space Marines?
> I wonder because I'm not among those who believe the Templars are getting folded into Codex: Space Marines.


The next space marine codex is Codex: Space marines, I am led to believe Templars are not in it in any form


----------



## Zion

Bindi Baji said:


> The next space marine codex is Codex: Space marines, I am led to believe Templars are not in it in any form


While it's highly disappointing that Templars aren't the next Marine book, it's nice to see that they're not getting shafted either.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Bindi Baji said:


> The next space marine codex is Codex: Space marines, I am led to believe Templars are not in it in any form


 
So, I should put some cash aside for that, huh?


----------



## Troublehalf

I've heard rumours the November Fantasy release is Dwarves. Or Dwarfs. Whatever. 

I am unable to verify this with source or anything, but seeing as they are pretty naff (very bland, hard to distinguish between units so on so forth) they could do with a nice update.

I also, personally, thought Skaven would of been updated by now. Since they got Blood Island models and stuff, plus their heraldry, as well as a new book about Headtaker.

Who knows, be it Dark Elves, Skaven or Dwarf(ves) I do not mind. I buy all new dex's anyway. Lizardmen rumours seem fun, Carnosaur Cav is technically already possible (expensive as fuck though) but it's nice to see them get a specific slot. The Wanderer is an awesome new SC idea and I am 99% sure it will be there, he can lead my 18 (it'll be 17 to make place for him) Kroxigors. The other thing is, Coatl have been spoken of before and are drawn in the 7th edition book. So that's a possibility, being a new mount for Skink Priests (who need to lose Lore of Heaven, it sucks). I am also surprised to see no snake units. So, the new spawning could be Snakemen. If you look at the newish Old Blood model he has a snake tongue, where no other art shows Saurus with snake tongues. Also, if memory serves me right, scientists found out about a 40ft Boa Constrictor snake used to exist. They even did a battle between a T-Rex and the Titan Boa in CGI. So, perhaps that will be something. Also, Arcandons are mentioned a lot and have been converted and pictured in offical GW stuff carrying a EotG. So, another possibility.


----------



## Zion

Troublehalf said:


> I've heard rumours the November Fantasy release is Dwarves. Or Dwarfs. Whatever.


I saw this pop up on Warseer, but there wasn't anything solid.



Troublehalf said:


> I am unable to verify this with source or anything, but seeing as they are pretty naff (very bland, hard to distinguish between units so on so forth) they could do with a nice update.


While true, it seems GW's focus is on the armies that can abuse the magic system the most.



Troublehalf said:


> I also, personally, thought Skaven would of been updated by now. Since they got Blood Island models and stuff, plus their heraldry, as well as a new book about Headtaker.


I would have assumed they'd be one of the first ones of 8th, but GW has been hitting armies that are heavy magic (yes, Ogres are technically heavy magic because they rely on a lot of buffs to run well).



Troublehalf said:


> Who knows, be it Dark Elves, Skaven or Dwarf(ves) I do not mind. I buy all new dex's anyway. Lizardmen rumours seem fun, Carnosaur Cav is technically already possible (expensive as fuck though) but it's nice to see them get a specific slot. The Wanderer is an awesome new SC idea and I am 99% sure it will be there, he can lead my 18 (it'll be 17 to make place for him) Kroxigors. The other thing is, Coatl have been spoken of before and are drawn in the 7th edition book. So that's a possibility, being a new mount for Skink Priests (who need to lose Lore of Heaven, it sucks). I am also surprised to see no snake units. So, the new spawning could be Snakemen. If you look at the newish Old Blood model he has a snake tongue, where no other art shows Saurus with snake tongues. Also, if memory serves me right, scientists found out about a 40ft Boa Constrictor snake used to exist. They even did a battle between a T-Rex and the Titan Boa in CGI. So, perhaps that will be something. Also, Arcandons are mentioned a lot and have been converted and pictured in offical GW stuff carrying a EotG. So, another possibility.


You got me on whose really in November. It's the one month I don't have a solid answer for right now, though if GW continues this pattern Dark Elves would make sense....


----------



## Bindi Baji

I think I mentioned something about Dwarves a little while ago,
they are definately at an advanced state but i'm unsure if they are due to be released at the end of this year or in January,
I haven't heard a thing about Skaven so I doubt they'll be released in the next six months


----------



## ntaw

revilo44 said:


> Blood Angels fall / end 2015.





revilo44 said:


> Blood Angels on early re-design.


At least they're in the mill now. Good times.


----------



## kitchen123

yes blood bowl !!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Troublehalf

Thing is, I usually took the "Passing Shot" ending page in White Dwarf gave a hint of what was to come. For example, before the Tau update, the Passing Shot was the Necrons going "Advanced Technology is no use if wielded by a inferior being" or something and viola, Tau. 

But, I think it's nothing. I hope Lizardmen are next, but the fact they are nerfing magic is basically removing everything the Lizardmen excel at. The fact ranks after the first can only use 1 attack each fucking destroys the Lizardmen. Chaos Warriors get the better initiative and therefore weaken many before they die.

Carnosaur Cav is interesting as they are S7, T6, W5, A5 I think. So, they'll become the best cavalry in game. So I don't think it can have much merit unless they major nurf them. WHich, once again, ruins the Lizardmens "Big Dinosaurs!" thing. Temple Guard need to go back to 2+ Save. Kroxigors need a MAJOR buff, as Great Reach is now worthless and they are expensive for what they do. A Lizardmen breed based on Jaguar Warriors, you know, very powerful and agile but weakish would be cool.

Sigh. Dwarves would be nice in January or Nov. Nids and Orks need an update. Dark Eldar also.


----------



## Zion

Troublehalf said:


> Thing is, I usually took the "Passing Shot" ending page in White Dwarf gave a hint of what was to come. For example, before the Tau update, the Passing Shot was the Necrons going "Advanced Technology is no use if wielded by a inferior being" or something and viola, Tau.


I don't put too much stock into the parting shot giving us anything. It's kind of like a Nostradamus prediction, it's easy to tie things to what's said or shown after the fact so I don't give it much stock.



Troublehalf said:


> But, I think it's nothing. I hope Lizardmen are next, but the fact they are nerfing magic is basically removing everything the Lizardmen excel at. The fact ranks after the first can only use 1 attack each fucking destroys the Lizardmen. Chaos Warriors get the better initiative and therefore weaken many before they die.


I wouldn't say "nerfing" magic as much as "toning down to stop the ROFL-stomping" magic.

I do hope to see Lizardmen get some new tricks to balance them out and give them more flavour when compared to now.



Troublehalf said:


> Carnosaur Cav is interesting as they are S7, T6, W5, A5 I think. So, they'll become the best cavalry in game. So I don't think it can have much merit unless they major nurf them. WHich, once again, ruins the Lizardmens "Big Dinosaurs!" thing. Temple Guard need to go back to 2+ Save. Kroxigors need a MAJOR buff, as Great Reach is now worthless and they are expensive for what they do. A Lizardmen breed based on Jaguar Warriors, you know, very powerful and agile but weakish would be cool.


I wish I was keeping up on Fantasy more to better guess what would be done with Lizardmen.



Troublehalf said:


> Sigh. Dwarves would be nice in January or Nov. Nids and Orks need an update. Dark Eldar also.


From the sound of thing Nids kick off the start of next year and Dark Elves were reported to be November (haven't seen that countered). Dwarves have been reported all over the place but I expect them to be more in 2014 after the magic heavy armies have been rebalanced.


----------



## GrizBe

Via Faeit212



> via beerbeard
> I don't usually know anything or hear anything, but yesterday I was talking to someone who works for GW and he confirmed, to the best of his knowledge, this schedule:
> 
> August: Lizardmen, but that's not all
> September: Big Surprise!
> October: Space Marines, more than you expect
> November: Dark Elves, more surprises
> December: Hobbit
> January: Dwarfs, and yes, more surprises
> 
> I stopped there because all I am really interested in are Dwarfs. I asked if the Big Surprise was Blood Bowl but he wouldn't say. I asked if the small surprises were supplement codices for 40k and he just smirked. I then asked if WHFB was going to get supplemental army books and he said he hadn't heard, but wouldn't be surprised.
> 
> I know people say these guys don't know any more than we do, but there it is for what it's worth.


More confirmations of what we already knew, but is nice that things are possibly more set in stone.

For Space Marines I've heard mention of White Scars, and possibly Imperial Fists suppliments.. So who knows?


----------



## Zion

GrizBe said:


> Via Faeit212
> 
> 
> 
> More confirmations of what we already knew, but is nice that things are possibly more set in stone.
> 
> For Space Marines I've heard mention of White Scars, and possibly Imperial Fists suppliments.. So who knows?


For White Scars last I'd read was they were on the cover and getting the first supplement that month.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Any word on if there will be supplements for existing codexes like SWs, BAs, DE etc. or are we going to have to wait until they are updated to get supplements?


----------



## GrizBe

I believe that the current space marine codexes are probably here to stay, so we'll still have Codex Blood Angels and Space Wolves and Dark Angels... I have heard that Black Templar may become a supliment however...

There have been a few renewed whispers of BT being dropped so that they can bring in the long rumoured new 40k race... but since we've had nothing solid about that from anyone reliable, It's all heresay for now.


----------



## Tawa

GrizBe said:


> There have been a few renewed whispers of BT being dropped so that they can bring in the long rumoured new 40k race... but since we've had nothing solid about that from anyone reliable, It's all heresay for now.


It's a long haul as it is with the races/armies we've already got. More would be a drain....


----------



## revilo44

Via Faeit
I am going to speculate from what he said that the schedule above would look somethig like this with codex supplements added in
August: Lizardmen, Farsight supplement
September: Blood Bowl?
October: Space Marines, White Scars Supplement (could a second supplement also be in the same month?)
November: Dark Elves and another supplement, probably Marines and probably Ultramarines
December: Hobbit
January: Dwarves, and no idea


Edit:sorry grizbe. Just left the bit at the end


----------



## GrizBe

Umm.. Rev.... I posted that exact same thing not 5 posts ago on this thread...


----------



## Bindi Baji

GrizBe said:


> For Space Marines I've heard mention of White Scars, and possibly Imperial Fists suppliments.. So who knows?


There were significant talks about two years of the scars getting a codex, as they can be covered rules wise in the old and new codexes it sounds like it will just be a supplement for them now



Zion said:


> For White Scars last I'd read was they were on the cover and getting the first supplement that month.


Still UM on the cover of the 'dex



GrizBe said:


> I believe that the current space marine codexes are probably here to stay, so we'll still have Codex Blood Angels and Space Wolves and Dark Angels... I have heard that Black Templar may become a supliment however...
> 
> There have been a few renewed whispers of BT being dropped so that they can bring in the long rumoured new 40k race... but since we've had nothing solid about that from anyone reliable, It's all heresay for now.


BT aren't directly mentioned in the codex from what I can see at all, I would expect an update in 2014 (it's a guess)

I haven't heard as much as a microbe about any new races at all and think it's about as likely as a gas tanker built entirely out of matchsticks

Jan-Feb is still nids and dwarves but I still don't know which way around for certain


----------



## Zion

Bindi Baji said:


> There were significant talks about two years of the scars getting a codex, as they can be covered rules wise in the old and new codexes it sounds like it will just be a supplement for them now


Makes more sense to me. Talking to a friend of mine and he thinks that the supplements might be a good way to fold some of these Marine books back into the fold. Personally I think it's a little late for GW to start doing that at the moment, but it's not a bad idea.



Bindi Baji said:


> Still UM on the cover of the 'dex


Disappointing honestly. Guess the White Scars cover art rumors may have stemmed from the supplement cover art instead.



Bindi Baji said:


> BT aren't directly mentioned in the codex from what I can see at all, I would expect an update in 2014 (it's a guess)
> 
> I haven't heard as much as a microbe about any new races at all and think it's about as likely as a gas tanker built entirely out of matchsticks
> 
> Jan-Feb is still nids and dwarves but I still don't know which way around for certain


Unless GW is willing to fold all the non-Grey Knight Marine books. into the main Space Marine book I don't see BT going in. And if BT go in, say good bye to Space Wolves because they're not that different from BT in terms of FOC style (mobbed PA and the like) (Grey Knights get an auto-pass due to the FOC differences, the fact that they also have the Inquisition and Psyker spam all over the army).

And no, that's not a comment about fluff but rather rules. Space Wolves aren't THAT different from BT (closer to BT than Vanilla at least) so if BT go, I expect Space Wolves to not be safe either. And if Space Wolves go....well you get the point.

I don't put stock in new race rumours.

And Dwarves and Nids fit what we've been hearing too.

Any idea on if we'll see Dark Elves or Marines first? That seems to be a point of contention right now.


----------



## d3m01iti0n

When the Eldar supplement was announced I was dead certain BT was going that direction. But now Im not so sure. I mean weve always had a seperate listing on the allies matrix, thats old news. But now with the new Armaggedon hardback novel and the generous offering of formations in Apoc I feel like GW may finally be tossing us some love. The previous rumors that we need a complete overhaul make sense. We could use the work to pull us out of the SM tab and be considered an indepentant PA army. Annoying that theyre taking their sweet time doing it, but hopefully worth it.


----------



## iamtheeviltwin

d3m01iti0n said:


> But now with the new Armaggedon hardback novel and *the generous offering of formations in Apoc I feel like GW may finally be tossing us some love.*


Where are the BT Apoc formations? I don't see them listed on the games-workshop site where they list all the army formations, I was surprised at the lack of BT and SoB specific formations. (mybe not surprised...)


----------



## Zion

iamtheeviltwin said:


> Where are the BT Apoc formations? I don't see them listed on the games-workshop site where they list all the army formations, I was surprised at the lack of BT and SoB specific formations. (mybe not surprised...)


BT are here: Sons of Grimaldus | Games Workshop

and here:

Heroes of Armageddon | Games Workshop


----------



## d3m01iti0n

iamtheeviltwin said:


> Where are the BT Apoc formations? I don't see them listed on the games-workshop site where they list all the army formations, I was surprised at the lack of BT and SoB specific formations. (mybe not surprised...)


Games Workshop

Armaggedon Warzone tab under Apoc. Armaggedon may be an Apoc supplement, depending on whats in the book.

Of course, it may be a test to sell BT products. Which will of course fail because theyre the oldest book. They dont sell because theyre outdated, theyre outdated because they dont sell. Smart GW, smart.


----------



## Zion

d3m01iti0n said:


> Games Workshop
> 
> Armaggedon Warzone tab under Apoc. Armaggedon may be an Apoc supplement, depending on whats in the book.
> 
> Of course, it may be a test to sell BT products. Which will of course fail because theyre the oldest book. They dont sell because theyre outdated, theyre outdated because they dont sell. Smart GW, smart.


I like to call that the Dark Eldar Effect.

Though Templars do add a new wrinkle to the mix: you need 2 boxes to build 1 unit due to the fact that all the BT boxes are upgrade kits that don't have all the Marines parts you need inside to just build Marines. Still better than most upgrade kits though, as they're in plastic.


----------



## GrizBe

On the new race, a few years back when we were starting to get info on 6th ed, there were rumours about the Hrud making an appearance as a playable race... it seems its these rumours resurfacing for some reason.

Frankly, I can't see Hrud happening.. if they go with the 'space skaven' thing they had for them, that conflicts with Mantic now... even though Hrud were put into 40k fluff years ago.

Still new race would be cool.... As much as I like that we do have the variety of space marines that we do have, I think that ditching some of them for something that isn't space marines with a different flavour would only help to improve the game.

Problem is where to fit a new army with a new gameplay style that isn't like anything we've seen.


Anyway... that's random musing aside.

Sisters need a damn proper update before we get anything new.


----------



## iamtheeviltwin

Ah missed the Armageddon specific formations, was just looking in the all armies tab.


----------



## d3m01iti0n

SoB should get an update ASAP. At least you can pick up and play BT. The WD-only codex is abso-fucking-lutely ridiculous and turns away players who would at least attempt to order direct to try them out. It hurts new players willing to give them a shot. Now Ill be honest and say Im not a really big SoB fan, but hey, a lot of people dislike BT. It doesnt matter to me. We are more or less a community; just because I dont like something doesnt mean Im going to put it down. I rather see everybody get what they want and be happy. Thats the most important things about this hobby IMO.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Zion said:


> Any idea on if we'll see Dark Elves or Marines first? That seems to be a point of contention right now.


DE should see the year out, SM will see the light in time for gamesday




GrizBe said:


> Problem is where to fit a new army with a new gameplay style that isn't like anything we've seen.


ad mech are still the most likely and don't expect them in the near future


----------



## GrizBe

Bindi Baji said:


> ad mech are still the most likely and don't expect them in the near future


With Forge World producing Mechanicum units, kinda assumed as much and that if we were going to see an adMech army it be through them.


----------



## Bindi Baji

GrizBe said:


> With Forge World producing Mechanicum units, kinda assumed as much and that if we were going to see an adMech army it be through them.


Admech is Jes Goodwin's "project" that he himself wants to be involved with when things are relatively up to date if that ever happens, 
if you can get him talking about it (at say games day) he's quite up front about admech being likely to be the next army.

At the same time Gav Thorpe said he didn't think there would be any new armies in the near to long future as they struggle to keep up with demand with things as they are (at sci fi weekender in north wales this year)


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Does anyone know whether the Dwarfs will be updated soon, or is it safe to get the book?


----------



## Zion

Words_of_Truth said:


> Does anyone know whether the Dwarfs will be updated soon, or is it safe to get the book?


2014. Doesn't hurt to pick it up now to get some games in though.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Words_of_Truth said:


> Does anyone know whether the Dwarfs will be updated soon, or is it safe to get the book?


feb-ish


----------



## Judas Masias

Does anyone know when GW is going to release the new plastic Greater Daemon's?:scratchhead:


----------



## GrizBe

Judas Masias said:


> Does anyone know when GW is going to release the new plastic Greater Daemon's?:scratchhead:


Considering that the only rumours of these came from the now debunked leaks list, and from BoK who is never right; We don't even know if these exist or not.... Either way the answer isn't any time soon as 4 months after the codex release is a little late for a wave release of them.


----------



## revilo44

this does not look like it is happening but i will put it here anyway 



> via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
> Now apocalypse is released there are 2 major upcoming armies
> -Orks (around October)
> -Black Templar (around December)
> This is to represent the third war for armageddon
> 
> Now the rumor says around these months. There is a lot of room there, as it could mean pre-orders, or release dates. December is always an odd month out. The key here is that releases could be featured around famous battles and adversarial armies. This could tie in future Warzone (apocalypse) releases, and codex supplements to each other. Could Games Workshop be designing their releases to fit with the Warhammer 40k background? (my mind was just blown)


----------



## d3m01iti0n

Would make perfect sense if they did. Fingers crossed.


----------



## redmapa

I agree with demolition, it makes much more sense for GW to focus on updating the rest of the 4th ed books like they have done so far AND THEN update the 5th ed books, thats the trend they have been making so far and I really hope they finish it

Hot shit this throws all my financial planning down the tubes, nids and SoB projects are on hold, let the saving begin!

This made my day


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

redmapa said:


> I agree with demolition, it makes much more sense for GW to focus on updating the rest of the 4th ed books like they have done so far AND THEN update the 5th ed books, thats the trend they have been making so far and I really hope they finish it
> 
> Hot shit this throws all my financial planning down the tubes, nids and SoB projects are on hold, let the saving begin!
> 
> This made my day


 Red, I'd take it all with a grain of salt. Rumors are rumors and they're not a guarantee.


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## redmapa

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Red, I'd take it all with a grain of salt. Rumors are rumors and they're not a guarantee.


Sure, worse case scenario Templars are not updated but I have $300-600 saved, what I would not like to happen is that Templars do get an update but I have no money to preorder, that would suck big time and the High Marshall will not find me lacking in zeal or capital!


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## Jace of Ultramar

redmapa said:


> Sure, worse case scenario Templars are not updated but I have $300-600 saved, what I would not like to happen is that Templars do get an update but I have no money to preorder, that would suck big time and the High Marshall will not find me lacking in zeal or capital!


True.


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## Bindi Baji

revilo44 said:


> this does not look like it is happening but i will put it here anyway


yup 100%, that's wrong - 100% wrong
orcs next summer (or thereabouts)
no idea when templars will see a release (but they will)


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## Magpie_Oz

Bindi Baji said:


> yup 100%, that's wrong - 100% wrong
> orcs next summer (or thereabouts)
> no idea when templars will see a release (but they will)


So is it true that all Codices will be updated in the 6th ed cycle and if so when do you believe the update cycle will end?

Are armies like Necron and Grey Knights going be at the very end due to their fairly recent 5th Ed Codices ?


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## Bindi Baji

Magpie_Oz said:


> So is it true that all Codices will be updated in the 6th ed cycle and if so when do you believe the update cycle will end?


I honestly don't know, it's quite plausible though,
I don't know anything of 'crons or grey knights as of yet.

I think once we see things up to date (ie after SOB) we'll see more regular codex updates with less new models for each release - I don't know anything firm, we'll call it a tremor in the force :grin:


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## ntaw

Bindi Baji said:


> I don't know anything firm, we'll call it a tremor in the force


I'm willing to accept that.


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## d3m01iti0n

Im gonna stick with Faeit on this one. I live for BT rumors; otherwise I would have quit this ass-backwards hobby by now.


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## d3m01iti0n

Faeit 212: Warhammer 40k News and Rumors: Enter The Citadel: Sisters of Battle/Black Templar and Much More

Another confirmation BT and SoB are not being dropped. Also if you read into the comments, Natfka states hes about to post more BT info today. THE -REAL- ETERNAL CRUSADE IS ON ITS WAY BROTHERS.


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## Zion

d3m01iti0n said:


> Faeit 212: Warhammer 40k News and Rumors: Enter The Citadel: Sisters of Battle/Black Templar and Much More
> 
> Another confirmation BT and SoB are not being dropped. Also if you read into the comments, Natfka states hes about to post more BT info today. THE -REAL- ETERNAL CRUSADE IS ON ITS WAY BROTHERS.


I'm pretty sure I've been saying it for a while now that nothing was getting dropped. 

I'm not buying a December release for anything 40k or WFB related though. The only thing that ever seems to come out around Christmas is Hobbit/LotR sets, and repackaged sets for 40k to get people to buy more models at _maybe_ a slight discount.


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## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> I'm pretty sure I've been saying it for a while now that nothing was getting dropped.
> 
> I'm not buying a December release for anything 40k or WFB related though. The only thing that ever seems to come out around Christmas is Hobbit/LotR sets, and repackaged sets for 40k to get people to buy more models at _maybe_ a slight discount.


 
Yeah, I believe I've renounced the ideaology of SoB and BT getting thrown out.

Ditto on the releases too.


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## humakt

I was talking to people at 'Enter the Citadel' and got a pretty big hint that Space Marines will be the UK Games Day release.


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## Zion

humakt said:


> I was talking to people at 'Enter the Citadel' and got a pretty big hint that Space Marines will be the UK Games Day release.


Seeing as that is 29 September, that definitely puts Marines as an October release in my book.


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## Bindi Baji

humakt said:


> I was talking to people at 'Enter the Citadel' and got a pretty big hint that Space Marines will be the UK Games Day release.


a very intelligent, handsome chap confirmed that recently here, 
can't think who that was though..............


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## Magpie_Oz

Bindi Baji said:


> a very intelligent, handsome chap confirmed that recently here,
> can't think who that was though..............


unish:


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## humakt

I was just passing on what I heard


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## Bindi Baji

humakt said:


> I was just passing on what I heard


which is exactly what you should have done, that's two rumours/sources now if you will


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## revilo44

i not really liking this schedule 

November will be Nidvember; Plastic Hive Guard Box released 

December: No coment, Hobbit and new Terrain

January: Ork Codex; Plastic Kommandoz & Warboss Plastic Kit

February: Dark Elves Armybook(should be in oct)

March: Imperial Guard; three Plastic Kits for Steellegion & a Turretless Tank Kit, new Steellegion Character (no Yarrik!) Codex-Focus is Cadia & Armageddon

April: Breton Armybook

May: Space Wolves, there will be a 13th Great company & Thousand Sons Supplement parallel release near end of the Year Focus of the SW Supplement is the Fight again Tzeentch Forces

June: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition with Empire vs. Orks & Goblins


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## locustgate

Zion said:


> SEP: Bloodbowl
> OCT: Space Marines


I think the Space marines will be released in Sep, no clue what on oct.


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## Zion

locustgate said:


> I think the Space marines will be released in Sep, no clue what on oct.


I'm digging around to get more information as this whole year from Sep onwards has taken the old schedule, tied it to a grand piano and thrown it out the window.


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## revilo44

as we know In September are the mairnes.I put a tread about dark elves and the box in October. November is nids (maybe) . And we all know in December there is the hobbit. But I after that I'm not sure.


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## GrizBe

Okay so this release schedual popped up on faeit212:



> I was forwarded a release schedule to take a look at, so I will just leave this up for people to discuss. I do believe that Imperial Guard will be the January release.
> 
> Please remember that these are rumors. Not sure what is up with the name the source wanted to be known as, but as long as there is no drama attached to it, it can stand. (new source)
> 
> via Tim the Thief (thats the name the source wanted to be known as) on Faeit 212
> October: Mystery Box (he is sure Blood Bowl)
> 
> November: Tyranids
> 
> December: Terrain and Hobbit
> 
> January: Orks / Imperial Guard & SUppliment for the new Codex
> 
> February: Dark Elves
> 
> March: Imperial Guard / Orks & Suppliment Book for the new Codex
> 
> April: Bretons
> 
> May: Space Wolves
> 
> June: Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition; Gaming Set will first sell at the same Time like the Rulebook (because new Release schedule)
> 
> July: 30th anniversary Warhammer Fantasy
> 
> August: Orks & Goblins
> 
> September: No Codex or Armybook, great Suppliment with new Kits
> 
> Oktober: Wood Elves
> 
> November: Codex release (Blood Angels or Sisters of Battle)



Personally I find some of this a bit wishlisty, so i'd say take it with extra salt. First red flag is the guy wanting a name for himself. Lately that's been a big marker for fake stuff and people just trying to get noticed.

Also, the majority of stuff on here has already been mentioned by known reliable sources... so it could just be the old copy paste, tag a few new bits on the end lazy mans 'rumour' mongering.

Anyway.. all that aside another mention of Blood Bowl seems promising considering known reliables still have made no mention of the 'Inquisitor' rumours we had. You'd think given its only 2 months off now, we'd have something from them if inquisitor was true.

The mention of Bretons and not Dwarfs seems odd too... Dwarfs are in need of an update, and we've had more mention of them lately. 

Fantasy 9th ed seems a little soon too... 8th was only release in 2010, so a 4 year gap between new editions when we've still got several armies in need of an update... We know GW have said they want to try and keep editions around for longer now.... The 30th anniversary also seems to be pushing it a little...

Anyway.. i'll put it up here for discussion.


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## Zion

Last I saw is that Fantasy was due in mid 2015. Doesn't mean that July can't have an Anniversary thing like 40k did (money is on another collector's model!) but I'm not putting money on a new edition.


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## Bindi Baji

GrizBe said:


> The mention of Bretons and not Dwarfs seems odd too... Dwarfs are in need of an update, and we've had more mention of them lately.


Dwarves are close - Bretons not really - there are two armies awaiting big overhauls and bretons are the other side of SOB 



GrizBe said:


> Fantasy 9th ed seems a little soon too


I don't have anything firm to back this up but I have a feeling we may see it late next year


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## Kettu

Bindi, don't suppose you know if the simple mention of the Sisters on that list means I should just break out laughing and dismiss it all as so much bovine-sourced fertiliser?


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## revilo44

I call shenanigans on that schedule because of the all the reasons above and they won't do ork and goblins before wood elves and dwarfs.


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## GrizBe

Generally if Bindi says something, even though he never gives much away, it turns out to be right. But yeah, thought it was odd Bretons being mentioned before Dwarfs.. and at least that's some confirmation Sisters will be coming in some form.

As for 9th... late next year would probably mean the July summer slot when they usually release new rules. Still seems kinda soon when GW said they wanted to have longer between new editions.


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## Bindi Baji

Kettu said:


> Bindi, don't suppose you know if the simple mention of the Sisters on that list means I should just break out laughing and dismiss it all as so much bovine-sourced fertiliser?


It looks like it's a summary of other lists added together (I think I saw someone else mention that),
I know SOB are in progress - I still expect them next year.

Most of what is on the list I do actually expect,
that said with SM chapter codexes I have no idea as I have been tentatively waiting for a white scars codex (I even hinted about it several times) that turned out to be a supplement and I was convinced (for good reason) that templars were staying out of the generic SM codex.



revilo44 said:


> I call shenanigans on that schedule because of the all the reasons above and they won't do ork and goblins before wood elves and dwarfs.


Dwarves and then O&G, I haven't heard a thing about wood elves though (that means little though)


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## Zion

Baji: O&G were like the first book of 8th Edition.


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## Bindi Baji

Zion said:


> Baji: O&G were like the first book of 8th Edition.


Blimey, they were?, I have heard orcs in 40k and fantasy next year though. Could be wrong, time will tell.......................


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## Bindi Baji

Bindi Baji said:


> I don't have anything firm to back this up but I have a feeling we may see it late next year


Just been reliably informed it is 2015 for the next fantasy ruleset


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## Tawa

Bindi Baji said:


> I know SOB are in progress - I still expect them next year.


I may have just made a very un-manly "squeee" noise at that :blush:


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## revilo44

via Stickmonkey on Faeit 212

Oct: dark elves wfb
Farsight supplement hardcopy
White scars supplement digital
No mystery box(es)

Nov: tyranids 40k
Terrain set (more wall of martyrs compatible pieces)
Ultramarines supplement digital
Black legion supplement hard copy

Dec: hobbit (box set)
Bundles for fantasy and 40k
White scars hard copy
Hive fleet behemoth supplement digital

Jan: IG 40k
Alpha legion supplement 40k digital
Ultramarines supplement hard copy

Feb: Brettonians or Dwarves wfb
Hive fleet behemoth hard copy
Steel legion digital

Further out (no particular order, just stuff I've heard in the pipeline for 2014):
Hive fleet kraken supp
Raven guard supp
Csm/daemon supplements 4 Gods
Black Templar Supp
Biel tan supp
Catachan supp
Orks 40k
Saim hann supp
Speed freaks supp
Blood angels 40k
Fleshtearers supp
Space Wolves 40k
13th gc supp
WfB 9
Wood elves


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## Creon

I have heard that October is a Fantasy month, and "not dwarves", so that fits with what I've been hearing.


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## Loli

I think those IG, Flesh Tearers supplements are crap simply because giving a supplement before the main book gets done makes no sense - to me that least.


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## Creon

Note the January '14 date for IG Codex ,Loli. Probably those "farther out" releases presuppose that. Though Speed Freaks without an ORK Codex would be odd.


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## revilo44

December Releases: Which ones will make it, and which ones will be kicked into the new year?
Escalation: 40k Expansion that adds a Lord of War slot into regular 40k games that can be filled with Super Heavies, Gargantuan Creatures, and more.

Stronghold Assault: A large 40k expansion to add multiple new fortifications into the game with new upgrades, and even combining fortifications into a single large one for one foc choice.

Space Marines: Ultima Edition: A new limited edition set with new artwork and 4 hardback books as one single collectors edition set.

Sigmar's Blood: A Warhammer Fantasy supplement that recreates Volkmar's invasion of Sylvania

Tyranid Codex: New 6th edition codex obviously with new model releases


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## Geist

> via Tim from the Faeit 212 inbox
> Release Plan for 2014
> January - Dwarfs
> February - Imperial Guard I
> March - Imperial Guard II
> April - Wood Elves & new GW Page/Shop
> May - Orks (40k)
> June - Bretons
> July - WHFB 9th Edition Rulebooks & Starter Set
> August - Space Wolves
> September - Orcs & Goblins I
> October - Orcs & Goblins II





> via an anonymous source from the Faeit 212 inbox
> Next coming Armies are Tyranids, Imperial Guard & Spacewolves for 40k and Dwarfs, Wood Elves and Orcs & Goblins for Fantasy.


If Nids do actually come out in December, I can see this as being pretty accurate.


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## Zion

I can too. Geist, if you post it up as a thread I'll make it a sticky.


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## Geist

Zion said:


> I can too. Geist, if you post it up as a thread I'll make it a sticky.


Oh look at that, it's the end of 2013 already, haha. I'll do that now.


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