# Not happy about nids....5th codex changes



## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

Hey all, I've been playing warhammer 40k for 3 years now and I was sooo excited when I heard a new codex was right around the corner for my army....I couldnt wait! I thought maybe Will get better units! maybe will get better saves! I just got the new codex today( yes I got it early) I after reading It I have to say I am heavily disappointed. The bad thing way out the good things.

NOT BEING ABLE TO DEEP STRIKE AND CHARGE IS RIDICULOUS!!!!


1. I have played allot of tourneys and private games and I have never seen that many NId players field Raveners do to them being completely useless if they deep strike in, I was told that this was going to change in the new codex......it didnt. DOes anyone else feel my pain?

2. More HQ choices....at a heavy price.........hope you like fielding 250+point HQs, with no invulsave....the fact that my the back bone of my army can be killed in one round by ELdar snipers (due to me having no invul is retared...)


3. Ripper Swarms NERFED..............Not keeping these guys in Synapse range will cause them to die out...FAST!!!!!


4. SYnapse Range reduce......GAY


5. Withoutnumber....gone


the list goes on....I very sadden to find out that these "new" nids are more designed around using Pysker powers and less on out numbering your opponent.


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

I got to be honest. I'm struggling to keep my tounge in check here, nothing annoys me more than a good whine fest. Whats more you claim to have the codex early and thats its terrible. I wont deny that its possible you did get it early, its also possible your just claiming to to stir up trouble. After all no one else as seen it to counter your claims right?

Anyway, I have no doubt there have been changes and some not for the best but having seen C:SM, SW and IG i seriously seriously SERIOULY doubt they nerfed Nids. If what you say is true there will most definatly be some strong counter points in that book, its ashame your to stubborn to adapt and use them. 

I'm sorry your preffered style of play is not what it use to be, but take a second look at your supposedly early codex, there are some equalizes in there.


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

well to be honest I was excepting tweaks and adjustments...but not a flat out Restart of the tyranid amry..I why exactly is it bad i got the codex early? who cares? I got lucky that the store didnt now when it was suppose to come out.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

Personally this is all good news for me:laugh: 

Aside from that, you know its illegal to obtain a product or form of media before the legally set release date? (Unless you have expressed permission or clearance from the copyright owner) 

They do this for tax reasons. 

Don't be surprised if you get heat from the moderators by posting this


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Specific things got worse... a lot of which seem to be the units I have most of but a lot of other things got better.

Cheaper stealers who can outflank, cheaper gaunts (but worse), much cheaper hormogaunts, Trygons (essentially just a better combat fex, 6W, fleet, whats not to like), power weapons and the all-new tervigon (who is going to become a staple I expect).

Sure there are downsides: no living ammo, fexs nerfed, no ID immunity and you lose the warp field (not that I ever took it anyway.


Its different, mebe annoying if, like me, you need to convert or buy a large amount of stuff to keep your army competetive but its certainly not weaker.


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

why im not posting stats or point values. You still need to buy the codex...when it comes out...besides all GW store have displays copies to look at....


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

Without number was over powered in 5th Edition which made it very difficult for nid players to lose a game with objectives. It's gone, so tough, just have to adapt and re jig your thinking.

Part of the thinking behind new codexes and rules editions is to challenge players into re thinking how to use your army as well as keeping up GWs revenue.

Most monstourous creatures, such as Daemon Princes have a low invulnerable save such as 5+ which is nothing to write home about, if they get one at all. It's still quite difficult to knock down a 4 to 6 wound T6 model especially with cover saves. 

Deep striking is the same for everyone bar a couple of special units such as the Ork stormboy character or Vanguard. In a tournament the use of these deep strike and charge units is very rare due to the lack of reliability in it. Rumours are rumours after all.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

NewGuy55 said:


> why im not posting stats or point values. You still need to buy the codex...when it comes out...besides all GW store have displays copies to look at....


Yes but you cannot obtain those, the general public still has to wait for the legal release date to purchase them, you of course you *claim* you violated this. 

Im not your mum or anything but be careful ok?


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

the point of my post was that you claim to have the codex and then make statment of how horrid it is. Right now no one else has one to counter anything you say. That makes me nervous and a bit untrusting. When the codex offically comes out the forums will swarm i'm sure with statements of "This is overpowered" and "We've been ruined" but in both topics the public will have many informed people to offer insights.

Right now I just get to take you on your beneovlent word and... to be harsh, your a newbie to these forums. Trust is earned, not given.


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## Arbite (Jan 1, 2010)

What are you talking about, the new dex is awesome. Our store has had it for about a week now and i have to say some of the units are absolutely mad. Swarmlord and Doom of Malanthai are going to be very difficult to kill as well as being generally awesome.
A freaking Zoan that regenerates a wound when it causes one. HOLY SH!T!!


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Ok first off, 'getting the codex a few days before release' is perfectly fine. It's one of the perks of pre-ordering ( as per what GW staff told me yesterday, when someone who had preordered got his stuff and was reading his own codex in the store ). The information IN the codex is already on display in GW stores, so nobody is 'ahead of the game'.

As for the codex being disappointing.. I'm going to say WTF?!!?:angry:
Oh whoop tie do, you can't assault when you deepstrike, NOBODY can do that buddy, except for some specific units involving special characters.

No more 'without number', yes, I noticed that too when I read the store copy, on one side, it's a pity because it was very 'fluffy', on the other, in the current game climate, the rule was easily abused in the 5th edition rules for objectives and such, so I don't mind it being removed.

Now.. things you DO get.. awesoem gargoyles, which I personally think ROCK. New warrior tricks, making them even scarier than before, cheaper genestealers with free outflanking, fleet broodlords who are now just an upgrade for genies, Some SERIOUS nasty tricks with reserve rolls using the proper HQs, Tervigons are the replacement for your 'without number', spawning more and more nids every turn, MC DROP PODS! Who needs the charge when you DS if you can dump say, 3 or 4 units down on the first turn about to charge into the face of the enemy?
Mawloc DS eats units alive when coming down, also giving you another point to bring in hordes of critters near the enemy.
Psychic powers that can restore wounds to certain big nasty MCs, by taking them from the enemy.
Shadow of the warp now also gives enemy psykers a real headache, because not only do you get to roll 3d6 for psy powers, you CAN get perils of the warp, the chance of which is increased by shadow's extra die.

The only real 'downside' I see for tyranid players is that they will have to remodel a large part of their existing armies, because of many changes. And rethink their tactics. But in all, the codex looked VERY awesome to me.

* hugs his flamers and wants some multi-melta's *


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## Kaizer (Aug 14, 2008)

Hello NewGuy55

I work in a hobby store, so I got a some time to look through the codex, and I have to say, Its awesome in my book.

I think you should give yourself some time to read the codex through. Many old players seams to read the codex, and mainly read some of their favoured units and only focus on some small changes. Read it all and put it together. To me it seams as a very strong codex, with alot of flexiablity. Before we only saw big bug lists, because it was the main thing that worked very well, now we will see alot of new list, not focused on fielding 8 big bugs. As I maid my first paint test yester day, and showed it to my friends and talked to them about the list, we got quite happy about it. We think it will change more than just the nid list, but alot of standart cheese list will have to be change to take a all out swarm list.

NewGuy55 have a good time reading the codex. If you want to talk about it some more, fell free to PM me. I might be able to help you see some new ways of building your army.

Take care!


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> Ok first off, 'getting the codex a few days before release' is perfectly fine. It's one of the perks of pre-ordering ( as per what GW staff told me yesterday, when someone who had preordered got his stuff and was reading his own codex in the store ). The information IN the codex is already on display in GW stores, so nobody is 'ahead of the game'.........



By preordering their stuff GWS agrees to a "contract" of sorts that gives the selected general public "expressed permission" to legally *own* their media before the legal release date. 

By gamesworkshop displaying an unreleased product or form of media for public exhibition is fine. The general public who *did not* pre-order said media simply cannot legally obtain the product and or media until the set legal release date. Which of course Newguy claims to have done anyway *without* pre-ordering said media, which *isn't* fine. 

Fortunately for him this law isn't exactly enforced, however I cannot say that Heresy Online won't have anything to say about it.

I should draft contracts for a living.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Well, however he got, he doesn't seem to like it, which is good news for his future opponents.

I'm going to buy it tomorrow, so I'll be delivering my final verdict then, but from what I read in White Dwarf the Tyranids sound as nasty as ever, especially where a mate's upcoming Genestealer force is concerned.

In addition to that, people now seem to like Warriors, Huzzah! These middleweights have always been my favourite Tyranid unit, and now that they're troops we should see more of them.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Since nobody from the staff has bothered doing it yet...

It is perfectly fine to discuss having a Codex prior to its release date. What is not acceptable is discussing where you obtained the Codex if you got it any other way than reading the Black Box copy that every store receives and taking some notes. Essentially, no discussion of torrents, illegal uploads, etc. is tolerated. This thread DOES NOT contain anything in violation of site rules.

Anyway, overall, the Tyranid Codex is ok. It's not as leaps and bounds ahead of the current power level the way Codex: Imperial Guard or Codex: Space Wolves is. But it's still in keeping with Games Workshop's "newest best" development style for the game. There are some things in the Codex that just shouldn't be there. The Doom of Malantai comes to mind-- that's 90 points of "We want to sell more Zoanthropes, so here's an undercosted, way overpowered unit that ensures EVERYONE buys a model." 

I've always been of the opinion that special characters should not be part of the main army list, but left in an appendix at the back of the book the way they were in 3rd Edition (and even part of 4th.) I've also always been of the opinion that when a new Codex is released, the fluff should be updated to be broader and more in-depth than it previously was, and the units themselves should be tweaked to work better with the current main rulebook. Maybe add a couple new units (NOT named characters, but actual unit types), and add or change some options to make some new tactics viable. 

Instead, however, Games Workshop makes a given new Codex with being mechanically better, rather than working better in concert with the edition's rules and other codecies for a balanced game.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Im really annoyed by all this 'store copy' talk... why is it that I work in the only GW seemingly anywhere that doesnt get a copy until today (a day Im not in). NVM, I should get to buy my own copy tomorrow anyway (just wont get to read it till the evening).

As for Malanta- I cant really think that it is over-powered... no matter how strong it gets it can still be instant killed by a single rocket. Since you'll pretty much have to give it a spore to make it worthwhile it is much more expensive then an old elite carnifex, easier to kill and less reliable... sure its a absolute terror if it works right but I dont think it'll be game changing in the way that some unique characters are (fateweaver, creed, njall come to mind).


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> As for Malanta- I cant really think that it is over-powered... no matter how strong it gets it can still be instant killed by a single rocket. Since you'll pretty much have to give it a spore to make it worthwhile it is much more expensive then an old elite carnifex, easier to kill and less reliable... sure its a absolute terror if it works right but I dont think it'll be game changing in the way that some unique characters are (fateweaver, creed, njall come to mind).


Nothing like seeing a single IG Heavy Weapons team take down a 20-wound model! :laugh:

Oh, and you *really* need to put Eldrad on that list... and remove Creed! 

I've played a game against the new Nid codex, and it seems to be slightly more powerful than the last one, but with enough "Balance" to make sure people won't automatically scream and run when you try to play them (like Vampire Counts in WHFB). Nid warriors are 3 wounds each now, but still no Eternal Warrior, for example. Slightly better, but still able to be dealt with.

I see the new codex as a boon for the non-tournament players, as there seem to be a LOT more viable choices (Gargoyles spring to mind) compared to last edition, when it was "Fex/Fex/Fex/Flyrant/Flyrant/Gaunts to fill remaining points". We should see more varied armies with varied tactics (hopefully). It is yet to be seen how sick they can be made for tournaments, but I see them as being very good, probably not quite at the 'Lash level, but probably equal to Eldar or Guard.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Actually, with shadow of the warp, I think a good nid force can eat a lash army. Simply by massively outnumbering it. Add to this the scaryness of Spore pods throwing fexes and whatnot directly where they are needed, swarms of cheap high maneuverability units ( gargoyles ), and cheap hordes of critters, you can easily overwhelm a lash force.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

I don't see how you can hate this codex. There are great units, you can build lots of different army types. There are some units with wicked powers, but have justifiable point costs for the most part. I think if you were expecting Nids to get better armour saves you were dreaming. The last nid codex was almost broken, really, where you expecting the new codex to be better than that.


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## bakoren (Nov 16, 2009)

I can't wait, The one thing making my stratogy fail at the moment is my Blord can not fleet, but if I hear right he is getting it now, which mean my Marine buddies rhinos are going to have alot of claw holes in them....


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

NewGuy55 said:


> 1. I have played allot of tourneys and private games and I have never seen that many NId players field Raveners do to them being completely useless if they deep strike in, I was told that this was going to change in the new codex......it didnt. DOes anyone else feel my pain?


have these players ever thouht about maybe DS'ing behind cover out of LOS?, and then using the ravenors blistering speed to charge next turn?, you know actually using some common sense instead of DS'ing them into the open like everyone does and then complaining they suck because the person using them is a moron.

or is it easier for them to cry like 2yr olds?


NewGuy55 said:


> 3. Ripper Swarms NERFED..............Not keeping these guys in Synapse range will cause them to die out...FAST!!!!!


there no bigger than my boot, of course they die fast, its like shooting a swarm of rats with a minigun.


NewGuy55 said:


> 4. SYnapse Range reduce......GAY


so its happy and jolly and merry?, what you moaning for then, sounds nice.


NewGuy55 said:


> 5. Withoutnumber....gone


something nobody ever wanted to use or ever would use gone, oh noes, we are all DOOOOOMED.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Yup.. you're also getting some units which give you +1 to your reserve rolls, and allow you to reroll outflankings.
broodlord is going to be an upgraded genestealer now, and can fleet with the rest of them.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Yup, stealer shock is going to be back with a vengeance... just lacking flesh hooks (yes I was one of those rare people to take flesh hooks over feeder tendrils- thats what lictors were for ).

@stella... hey, WoN wasnt useless, I normally had it on as many as 10 gaunts 
as useful as it was I think a lot of people just overused it and would have been better off without.

The funny thing now though is that IG are going to be the only army with a WoN type ability... and even worse because it is far far better then the nid version ever was (but at least it isnt too cheap).


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## flankman (Jan 26, 2009)

i like the troop slots and having a scoring broodlord is always nice. Sadly dissapointed in the fact that the only unit with frag grenades has init 1 (can have init 4 on charge) our hive tyrants will cost 250 points atleast each 200 per carni with small upgrades they add up wayy to fast that you cant afford elites/troops anymore and i only have 1 carni 2 hives 
doom of malanthai is pretty scary for the cost of 1.5 zoans ap1 large blast that heals it if he lands good hits


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> NOT BEING ABLE TO DEEP STRIKE AND CHARGE IS RIDICULOUS!!!!


Thats why there are Mawlocs. Seriously, people mock them by comparing them to Trygons, and Primes but for 170pts, 3+ Pie plates per game, +being fairly good at mopping up on the last turn is a bargain... Oh AND ITS SO FUCKING COOL!


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

flankman said:


> i like the troop slots and having a scoring broodlord is always nice. Sadly dissapointed in the fact that the only unit with frag grenades has init 1 (can have init 4 on charge) our hive tyrants will cost 250 points atleast each 200 per carni with small upgrades they add up wayy to fast that you cant afford elites/troops anymore and i only have 1 carni 2 hives
> doom of malanthai is pretty scary for the cost of 1.5 zoans ap1 large blast that heals it if he lands good hits



Simple solution to that.. dont take fex/tyrant. Instead of filling up on MCs and not having room for troops/elites try filling up on troops/elites and having no room for MCs.

eg
Tervagon- toxin sacs, adrenal glands, catalyst
3*8 Ymgarl stealers
5*12 stealers- broodlord, toxin sacs
~2000pts

Gives you 84 stealers of various types and a tervagon to pump out termagants to sit on a home objective... infiltrate all of them 12-18" from the enemy and then munch them by turn 2, doesnt really look like they need any support to me. If you dont like Ymgarl just up the unit sizes to 15 stealers and have 6 units of them... 102W worth of stealers deploying 18" from the enemy must be some serious brown trousers time  how can you not love the idea of that as a nid player (dammit, why do I only own 24 stealers :cray.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Methinks people need to play some games with the new Codex before drawing any conclusions. At my club we've been playtesting the new Nids for a couple weeks and yeah, there are some changes, but all in all I think the Tyranids benefit from their latest update.


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## SHarrington (Jan 7, 2010)

flankman said:


> Sadly dissapointed in the fact that the only unit with frag grenades has init 1 (can have init 4 on charge)


I understand what you're saying, even if it's not 100% accurate.
The troops that best used flesh hooks lost them, yes. (stealer,gaunts)

_Lictors, Fex's, and Harpies all have a frag grenade ability._


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I don't see much problem in 200+pts tyrants and carnifex's, I'm sure Gaunts will be cheap enough to take hundreds without breaking a sweat, just look at guard as an example, there HQ's and Heavy supports *can* each cost well over 200pts each very quickly, but you'll still have enough for good fast attack and allot of troops and some elites, I see it being the same here.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Stella's right.

If you're looking to play Nidzilla from 4th edition, then the Tyranid Codex isn't for you but that's a byproduct of the change in edition. Things change as the game evolves and though some of the changes are harder to swallow than others, there's a lot more good than bad.

Paying over 200 points for an upgraded Hive Tyrant or Carnifex really isn't so bad, because frankly, you don't want as many of them as you did in the previous Codex. Carnifexes aren't the super reliable cheap gun platforms that they used to be - now they're truly the walking battle tanks that they were always intended to be.

The new Tyranid Codex places more of an emphasis on Troops, unlike the older Codex. Gaunts and Genestealers are cheaper than before, so you can take more of them. Since the army won't have like six or more Monstrous Creatures unless you opt toward a specific build, it'll be easy to field many, many more models than before which will balance everything out.


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> I don't see much problem in 200+pts tyrants and carnifex's, I'm sure Gaunts will be cheap enough to take hundreds without breaking a sweat, just look at guard as an example, there HQ's and Heavy supports *can* each cost well over 200pts each very quickly, but you'll still have enough for good fast attack and allot of troops and some elites, I see it being the same here.


One of the reason I'm so upset about the point values.....in my area about 80% of the players play eldar. And thats all good and fun...however there freaking snipers......people play them in squads of 10, they always deploy in cover +2 cover save, now they rend on a 5+, and wound on a 4+ basically I've had games where my Tyrant gets gunned down in round one (along with 2-3 guards). Thats what I am talking about, I'm not crying like a two year old I'm simply expressing my concern with the new codex.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

NewGuy55 said:


> One of the reason I'm so upset about the point values.....in my area about 80% of the players play eldar. And thats all good and fun...however there freaking snipers......people play them in squads of 10, they always deploy in cover +2 cover save, now they rend on a 5+, and wound on a 4+ basically I've had games where my Tyrant gets gunned down in round one (along with 2-3 guards). Thats what I am talking about, I'm not crying like a two year old I'm simply expressing my concern with the new codex.


There are ways around this, though. Outflanking Genestealers, dropping spore mines on the troublesome unit's heads, landing a Pyrovore right next to the Pathfinders by using a mycetic spore and then setting them on fire, etc. Don't worry, there are plenty of ways around the problems you've mentioned. It'll just take a little time to figure them out is all.


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## SHarrington (Jan 7, 2010)

^Agreed. Time will tell.

I'm rather looking forward to getting my models this week, towards my "Turn 2 Army".

I do have one prediction based on the games I have played with Proxies so far.
Missions are a moot point. Tyranids are built to *Wipeout!* the enemy.
_Prediction: More games will be won by wipeout then we saw in the last codex._


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## The Fallen (Jul 15, 2009)

NewGuy55,

Someone will always be disapointed when their army's new codex comes out as i was when the new CSM codex came out. No Khornate army anymore and nurfed Berzerkers! Now I was pissed. 

BUT, after getting to know this new codex over time (and playing a few battles as well), I really understood (and appreciated) the new changes they made. Yes i had to change up my strategy and yes i liked my pure World Eaters army in the previous codex much more than what it is today but give it some time...and alot of reading and you'll come to like your codex as well.


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## Broken Sword (Jan 5, 2009)

NewGuy55,

We have a saying in the Marines, Adapt and Overcome. If your local Metagame is Eldar and they spam PFs and rangers, then horde up the main force and then drop flaming death on them. Your situation is only really dissapointing in two ways: (a) you don't get to field awesome looking big nasties and (b) you have to live in a corner of the galaxy populated by 'space elves.'


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

NewGuy55 said:


> One of the reason I'm so upset about the point values.....in my area about 80% of the players play eldar. And thats all good and fun...however there freaking snipers......people play them in squads of 10, they always deploy in cover +2 cover save, now they rend on a 5+, and wound on a 4+ basically I've had games where my Tyrant gets gunned down in round one (along with 2-3 guards). Thats what I am talking about, I'm not crying like a two year old I'm simply expressing my concern with the new codex.


welcome to 40k, where things die, but thankfully theres still 100 gaunts able to swarm over those snipers and kill them later.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

YUp, agree with that... one of my local eldar players loves to spam rangers. In fact rangers, seer council, dark reapers and some harlequins are pretty much all he fields (just lots of them). So he is great against high T and low saves... but the last time I played him I had 70 gaunts on the table and lots of cheap fex. Sure the fex wont work anymore but its a new codex. Massed gaunts will still work great for everything except the seer council but since he is using wound on X+ weapons to deal with high T enemies he wont have S8 weaponry... meaning I can send warriors and raveners (who barely even notice ranger fire) instead.

Adapting to meet the challenge posed by an enemy is called being a decent player... either through changing your army list or your tactics. Whinging because people have learnt how to counter the 1 army list you are willing to use and then again because the new army book means its just generally not as good anymore is just really annoying.


I also dont hink we've seen the end of nidzilla.. just those lists we've seen in the past. 5 Tervigons, 3 Trygons, a harpy and 3 units of termagants would make a pretty damn nasty list, with 48 T6 wounds and 4 T5... compared to the old 44 T6 wounds at worst for the old Nidzilla, plus the new version has more troops then anyone could ever need (likely to have 10-11 units of troops by turn 3).
Sure it doesnt have lots of guns, but fleet and good DS could more then make up for that.


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## flankman (Jan 26, 2009)

hmm deepstriking pyrovores will gib those pointy eared scouts 

i'm liking the new units but dont know how to squeeze them in point wise yet and when to buy them (time will tell after a fwew games)


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

As they say in...uh...well as i say (Hey im on heavy anti-biotics and some painkillers atm so i can be a bit crazy)

LET THE TRYANID WHINING COMMENCE!

by next week this thread will be replaced with people Complaining about how broken nids are......

EditFlank Are Pointed Eared Scouts have feelings to!


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Anyone who says the 'nids got nerfed is a fucking troll. Sure a few stuff got removed but they got craploads of yummy stuff; for instance, a Drop Pod that can take 20 infantry or 1 MC. And just so you know, Zoanthropes are Infantry, meaning that a few squads dropped here and there and any armour and psykers in the vicinity are essentially fucked. Warp Lance makes Railguns look like wannabes. Oh and Hive Guard? No LoS needed with an S8 gun? T6 W2? Three of them in one squad for 150 points? Feel like turning into a Bloodletter by now? 
And thats just the tip of the iceberg.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Can we all agree on one thing. 'Further development of the warhammer 40K hobby is a good thing.' I for one look forward to reviving my nids. End of story.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

shaantitus said:


> Can we all agree on one thing. 'Further development of the warhammer 40K hobby is a good thing.' I for one look forward to reviving my nids. End of story.


I can live with that.  Just tell me my CSM get a new Codex next year or so, 'cause the more 5th edition codexes come out, the less my army is going to perform well. Its not the adapting thats my problem, but the what with. Already my CSM look like newbs compared to Grey Hunters, and when they get Furious Charge for Counter-Attacking, even my Zerkers start to reconsider turning their backs on the Emperor. I bet I'll be on an eternal crusade of penitence when the new Inquisition Codex comes out.


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

Khorothis said:


> I can live with that.  Just tell me my CSM get a new Codex next year or so, 'cause the more 5th edition codexes come out, the less my army is going to perform well. Its not the adapting thats my problem, but the what with. Already my CSM look like newbs compared to Grey Hunters, and when they get Furious Charge for Counter-Attacking, even my Zerkers start to reconsider turning their backs on the Emperor. I bet I'll be on an eternal crusade of penitence when the new Inquisition Codex comes out.


CSM? They do not need an update -_-. If you dont like your dex, use the SW or the upcomeing BA for counts as while GW updates DE, DH/WH, Chrons, and maby Tau, then you get an update.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

shaantitus said:


> Can we all agree on one thing. 'Further development of the warhammer 40K hobby is a good thing.' I for one look forward to reviving my nids. End of story.


NO, I want further development of the specialist games before 40k gets anything, it should stand aside for superior systems.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Stella Cadente said:


> NO, I want further development of the specialist games before 40k gets anything, it should stand aside for superior systems.


They probably aren't superior systems if they don't sell well.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Col. Schafer said:


> CSM? They do not need an update -_-. If you dont like your dex, use the SW or the upcomeing BA for counts as while GW updates DE, DH/WH, Chrons, and maby Tau, then you get an update.


CSM have lash and oblits, rest blows to a reasonable degree, compared to others.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Treewizard648 said:


> By preordering their stuff GWS agrees to a "contract" of sorts that gives the selected general public "expressed permission" to legally *own* their media before the legal release date.
> 
> By gamesworkshop displaying an unreleased product or form of media for public exhibition is fine. The general public who *did not* pre-order said media simply cannot legally obtain the product and or media until the set legal release date. Which of course Newguy claims to have done anyway *without* pre-ordering said media, which *isn't* fine.
> 
> ...


There was never a contract formed between himself and games workshop if he bought the codex early. The contract only existed between himself and the store he purchased it from, as GW is the one with the rule about the release date only the store who sold it to him has broken contract(assuming it's third party). You can't form contract with random third parties just by purchasing a good and thus allow the other 3rd party to be entitled to damages, you are also confusing civil and criminal law, it isn't illegal in most countries to even pirate software, but it's a violation of IP and can get you sued for lots of money, hence why if you post GW stuff on site, you don't get contacted by police but by GW's lawyers.

In the case it was GWS store, which is the same organisation, GW would have to proove he was 
1) Specifically Aware of
2) Specifically Agreed to

Unless he signed a contract relating to the purchase of said codex I sincerely doubt they would have a legal leg to stand on, even if they were to enforce some other sort of stupidity.

TL;DR: OP isn't guilty of anything, only person with a head on the block is the guy selling it to him.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Col. Schafer said:


> CSM? They do not need an update -_-. If you dont like your dex, use the SW or the upcomeing BA for counts as while GW updates DE, DH/WH, Chrons, and maby Tau, then you get an update.


Says the IG player.  You know, I can handle lots of things (eventually ), even the 4xJaw madness of SW and their whole yiffing Codex, but these new nids look a bit too hard for me to handle. You see, my Codex is apparently lacking countermeasures for the crapload of T6/W6 monsters the new Nids have. My usual take-on-all-comers list just recently got boned by a *test list*. Of course I learned a lot from the encounter, and I have come up with solutions for that (which will require further testing), but the problem is (at the moment, my plans might change) that I'm either turning my Word Bearer Host into an Emperor's Children Circus, or getting some 16 MLs just because someone at GW thought that T5/W5 would be too weak.
However, if it is just me whining then please tell me WTF am I supposed to do. If I could field squadrons of Vindies I'd feel safe, but without that, I'm stuck with ML mountains.


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

I"d like to see a Codex: Salamander. But please put down your flamers. I believe exisitng armies need updates first. Starting with DE and Grey Knights, probably crons after that.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Khorothis said:


> Says the IG player.  You know, I can handle lots of things (eventually ), even the 4xJaw madness of SW and their whole yiffing Codex, but these new nids look a bit too hard for me to handle. You see, my Codex is apparently lacking countermeasures for the crapload of T6/W6 monsters the new Nids have. My usual take-on-all-comers list just recently got boned by a *test list*. Of course I learned a lot from the encounter, and I have come up with solutions for that (which will require further testing), but the problem is (at the moment, my plans might change) that I'm either turning my Word Bearer Host into an Emperor's Children Circus, or getting some 16 MLs just because someone at GW thought that T5/W5 would be too weak.
> However, if it is just me whining then please tell me WTF am I supposed to do. If I could field squadrons of Vindies I'd feel safe, but without that, I'm stuck with ML mountains.


Take a Defiler......they are good fun, or to simply kill nids..Demon Prince's and khorne beserkers backed up by noise marines.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

The Tyranid Codex is getting better. The Gaunts are a point less (assuming you take FB), and even though LA is gone, S4 is good on MEQs, not to mention you'll swamp Eldar and IG. WoN had its bad parts, in kill point missions you'll be giving your opponent free points. Warp Field now gives a 3+ inv Save (for all you Hierophant owners out there, Lascannons aren't so scary anymore!) Doom of Malantai' seems awful, I agree, since it will probably die very soon. Leech Life is a nice ability. EDIT points isn't much for a HT, because if you upgrade them right, they can destroy even a Bloodthirster in CC. TS, AG and such are getting WAY better than before. Hormogaunts are halved in price, Gargoyles following the lead. SM are now large blast at S4, AP4. Biovores don't automatically take a wound from Bolters (although 4+ doesn't really help that much). Synapse really sucks though, because it no longer grants EW, although if you don't have Synapse, instead of running off the board, you get to either Lurk or Feed. Hive Guards are awsome. Venomthropes are okay, I could see some good tactics with them: Shield your Warriors with a Gaunt shield, shield your Gaunts with a Venomthrope:grin:. Mawlocs are awful, unless they DS on target. Trygons will get gunned down really fast. Carnis are no longer worth taking due to their high point cost. Ravenors are now DSing, 12" moving Genestealers. Oh yeah, our new Drop Pod:victory:.

There ya go, these are just some of the good parts however, so we finally get to use _new_ tactics instead of NidZilla due to the balance.


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## H0RRIDF0RM (Mar 6, 2008)

A few of my friends and I have been meeting daily at our wargaming club to playtest the new bugs both in friendly and tournament formates. We've come to the conclusion that this book is by far the greatest product rotation ever.

So much of what we've come to adore has been rotated out for new stuff. 

Shrikes replace our Winged Hive Tyrant in short order.

For 150 points we get 6 Str 8 Shots on a T6 6 Wound platform. Souns alot like a replacement for the Sniperfex.

What's even better for the clever and conservative is that our new dex allows our old models to be converted into something useful.

I know plenty of people who took elite fexes and turned them into Tervigones. Oh snap I just took something I dont plan to use and turned it into a new model.

My 9 Tyrant Guard are being converted to Hive Guard. I just saved $180.

The list goes on.

Just forget about what you knew the Tyranids were and look at the codex as a whole new race.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Khorothis said:


> I can live with that.  Just tell me my CSM get a new Codex next year or so, 'cause the more 5th edition codexes come out, the less my army is going to perform well. Its not the adapting thats my problem, but the what with. Already my CSM look like newbs compared to Grey Hunters, and when they get Furious Charge for Counter-Attacking, even my Zerkers start to reconsider turning their backs on the Emperor. I bet I'll be on an eternal crusade of penitence when the new Inquisition Codex comes out.


My thousand sons look a lot better against the nids all of a sudden, from what I saw of their big things on the GW website, they all seem to be 3+ saves and such, which works well for me, sure I need a 6 to wound, but no save for him .

I mean, at 24" I've got 12 shots, 8 hits, just over 1 wound on average to the big ones, close range I can knock off 2-3 wounds from shooting a single squad, I think that my sons may have re-found a niche again xD. On top of that I'm usually fielding around 9 lascannons and 4 havoks these days in 2000pts, so I'm confident that when I fight the nids I will be able to do respectively. 

Many other troops types are substantially less useful against them than they previously were though, that's the truth and chaos in general are suffering quite heavily being one of the older dexes out there, holding on to the rope by the hair of their lash of submission and obliterators, without those two we'd be in shit.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Well, at least you're confident.  I'm not sure how well you'll do against a couple Trygons or something, though.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Well, at least you're confident.  I'm not sure how well you'll do against a couple Trygons or something, though.


Well, there's always obliterator and daemon prince spam isn't there....oh god. Yeah if there's as many T6 wounds as people say I think most armies will be in a big pile o' shit. I was just saying that as Sons, I have more chance to knock off T6 with a 3+ save than most who will really, really, really struggle. Least nids lost the 2+ save nonsense from what I can see.....But if there's an upgrade to 2+ on all their stuff it's going to be nearly impossible to bring so many T6 nasties down.


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

NagashKhemmler said:


> Well, there's always obliterator and daemon prince spam isn't there....oh god. Yeah if there's as many T6 wounds as people say I think most armies will be in a big pile o' shit. I was just saying that as Sons, I have more chance to knock off T6 with a 3+ save than most who will really, really, really struggle. Least nids lost the 2+ save nonsense from what I can see.....


Fexes I believe still have the +2 save. That means little if no one takes Fexs though. Well at least Space Marines with Missle Launchers can knock off a model a shot, so long as they hit. My crons .... seem doomed. ironic really.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

JackalMJ said:


> Fexes I believe still have the +2 save. That means little if no one takes Fexs though. Well at least Space Marines with Missle Launchers can knock off a model a shot, so long as they hit. My crons .... seem doomed. ironic really.


Only the Hive Tyrant and Tyrannofex get 2+ saves if I remember correctly, and the Hive Tyrant has to pay for the upgrade. Don't think there's a 2+ save option for the 'Fex anymore.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Only the Hive Tyrant and Tyrannofex get 2+ saves if I remember correctly, and the Hive Tyrant has to pay for the upgrade. Don't think there's a 2+ save option for the 'Fex anymore.


Info on the gw site says 3+, that's what I based mine on ^^.

So we're looking at a maximum of 1-2 models in their force with a 2+? That's more survivable.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

The Son of Horus said:


> Since nobody from the staff has bothered doing it yet...
> 
> It is perfectly fine to discuss having a Codex prior to its release date. What is not acceptable is discussing where you obtained the Codex if you got it any other way than reading the Black Box copy that every store receives and taking some notes. Essentially, no discussion of torrents, illegal uploads, etc. is tolerated. This thread DOES NOT contain anything in violation of site rules................



Goodie! Goodie! Back to brass tacks, :so_happy:

I got a good look at the new Tyranid codex today and I must say that I'm impressed. Now you can get a brood of carni's and they added so many new monsters. Gamesworkshop has truly created a 5th ed force to be reckoned with. I wouldn't be surprised if there "would be how to fight 'nids" threads and requests in a matter of hours because Tyranids are much more flexible now.


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

This was kinda my original point, which i did not put across very well. I was nervious of someone saying how doomed Tyrnids are when almost no one had seen the book (in great detial). Its much to easy for someone to just start such threads to try and cause a panic (not that i'm saying this was his aim).

Now that the book is out his "We are doomed" statement has been crushed (as i expected) and now its "We are doomed.... by the Tyrnids". Either way he seems to have started a lasting topic. :good:


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

I actually think I have more of a chance now ^^;;
Specially since they're not ALL eternal warrior when in Synapse
side from that they are still hard ass


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

Vanchet said:


> I actually think I have more of a chance now ^^;;
> Specially since they're not ALL eternal warrior when in Synapse


But what are you gonna do now that carnies are in broods now? 

The Tyranid might is awesome, because of the new codex I might need to "bring out the fat lady". (when I say that, I mean I am going to spend alot of time with plasticard making a deathstrike missile launcher) 

Aside from that, amongst my group of friends I am a well known 'nid killer. *ALL* of my armies are going to have to be redone because of the sheer power of the new Tyranids.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Honestly, I'm calling it that this guy is either trolling us, or just wants to win with a horrendously over-powered army.
Either way, why the hell has this thread reached 7 pages?

Also, he clearly did not have the codex a day early, he said they reduced Synapse range.
Which they did not.


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

Winterous said:


> Honestly, I'm calling it that this guy is either trolling us, or just wants to win with a horrendously over-powered army.
> Either way, why the hell has this thread reached 7 pages?
> 
> Also, he clearly did not have the codex a day early, he said they reduced Synapse range.
> Which they did not.


Thank you thank You. I've had that strange feeling from the start but felt so rude saying it. It looks like you've proven that right and for that I thank you. :alcoholic:


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

Winterous said:


> Honestly, I'm calling it that this guy is either trolling us, or just wants to win with a horrendously over-powered army.
> Either way, why the hell has this thread reached 7 pages?
> 
> Also, he clearly did not have the codex a day early, he said they reduced Synapse range.
> Which they did not.



I haven't read every page in this thread but is it me you are referring to? I am afraid of the new nids and I have no prospects of collecting them, I was just contemplating on how I would deal with them.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Treewizard648 said:


> I haven't read every page in this thread but is it me you are referring to? I am afraid of the new nids and I have no prospects of collecting them, I was just contemplating on how I would deal with them.


No not you 
The OP.



NewGuy55 said:


> NOT BEING ABLE TO DEEP STRIKE AND CHARGE IS RIDICULOUS!!!!
> 
> 
> 1. I have played allot of tourneys and private games and I have never seen that many NId players field Raveners do to them being completely useless if they deep strike in, I was told that this was going to change in the new codex......it didnt. DOes anyone else feel my pain?
> ...


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

Winterous said:


> No not you
> The OP.


*Wipes Forehead* 

Thank god, I was worried I caused another infraction, It's bad enough I pissed off two moderators today. 

As for the topic at hand, The reason why it reached 7 pages was most likely how outrageous the OP's claims were. These are simply minor adjustments and according to what I have seen will have little or no effect on the Tyranids playability.


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## bakoren (Nov 16, 2009)

I got Codex, bought me some Ravenors. I only started 6 monthes ago, but i still have alot of models to tear apart and reconstruct.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

bakoren said:


> I got Codex, bought me some Ravenors. I only started 6 monthes ago, but i still have alot of models to tear apart and reconstruct.


That's why I didn't buy any of the new models 
I still have a whole Battleforce to go.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I think we'll all be tearing apart old models for quite some time to come... I know I certainly have a very large list of things to convert.

My nid to do list:
Transform a Trygon into a Swarmlord- 90% finished (just head and 1 bonesabre left to do)
Convert 3 warriors into raveners
Change 3 twin devourer warriors into twin bonesword and devourer warriors
Swap 24 spinegaunts into termagants/devigaunts.
Convert 3 2nd ed Screamer-Killers into Tervigons

I also want to find something for my Red Terror to do... although currently Im split between using him as a tiny mawloc (no) or adding wings and making him a harpy... which I dont really like the rules for. Anyone got any suggestion?


Overall I love the new dex, sure its different and means there is a lot of work that needs doing to may army... but thats not a bad thing.
Only thing that annoys me is this continual GW trend that all models "must get larger".. but then thats been going on for a long time.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

To people who have to complain...i must say in the words of han solo..

Suck it up Princesses


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## bakoren (Nov 16, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> I think we'll all be tearing apart old models for quite some time to come... I know I certainly have a very large list of things to convert.
> 
> My nid to do list:
> Transform a Trygon into a Swarmlord- 90% finished (just head and 1 bonesabre left to do)
> ...


I agree I love the new Nids, The only thing that brought me down was the "use this biomorph for +1 strength, now ur gaunt FB is strength (3+1)+1"

But yeah all sorts of new ways to eat Khorne! And I feel like they made Spinegaunts worthwhile, hormatgaunts worthwhile, and this is just looking at the lil guys.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

bakoren said:


> I agree I love the new Nids, The only thing that brought me down was the "use this biomorph for +1 strength, now ur gaunt FB is strength (3+1)+1"
> 
> But yeah all sorts of new ways to eat Khorne! And I feel like they made Spinegaunts worthwhile, hormatgaunts worthwhile, and this is just looking at the lil guys.


Spine Gaunts worthwhile?
I think you're paying 1 more point for an overall worse gun.
It's probably _slightly_ better against light infantry, but that's about it.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Spinefist (10 shots)

Vs T3- 3.75W
Vs T4- 2.5W
Vs T5- 1.25W
Vs T6- 1.25W

Fleshborer (12 shots)
Vs T3- 4W
Vs T4- 3W
Vs T5- 2W
Vs T6- 1W

So a 60pt gaunt unit with fleshborers is better against T3-5 then a 60pt unit of spinegaunts and has more models (as they take casualities the kill ratio of the 2 units swings even further to fleshborers)... unless you know you'll be shooting against T6 all game then the fleshborers are just plain better in every situation you can imagine... which is why my spinegaunts are getting converted when I can get round to it.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> Spinefist (10 shots)
> 
> Vs T3- 3.75W
> Vs T4- 2.5W
> ...


Oh god damnit, they should have maked them ap4 or something :\


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## bakoren (Nov 16, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> Spinefist (10 shots)
> 
> Vs T3- 3.75W
> Vs T4- 2.5W
> ...


Durr, Hurr, I'm an idiot, I saw twin-linked and said "awesome".....A week ago, Pretty much anyoine who could carry Devourers did for the 2X assault/Living Ammo combo...


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## Ahala (Dec 12, 2008)

Just noticed through this thread a couple of people talking about the old rule of synapse giving 'eternal warrior' and jsut thought i would correct that, the 4th ed codex made units in synapse range immune to instant death via weapons with double their tougness value.

-and on topic, loving the look of the new Nid dex, seems to be very versatile, in that it looks like you wont have to be bounded by the "you must take this type of list or else fail competitely" approach to army building anymore ^_^


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Ahala said:


> Just noticed through this thread a couple of people talking about the old rule of synapse giving 'eternal warrior' and jsut thought i would correct that, the 4th ed codex made units in synapse range immune to instant death via weapons with double their tougness value.


That was FAQd to mean Instant Death of any kind.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Thought I'ld add to my mathhammer:

Spinefist (10 shots)

Vs T3- 3.75W
Vs T4- 2.5W
Vs T5- 1.25W
Vs T6- 1.25W

Fleshborer (12 shots)
Vs T3- 4W
Vs T4- 3W
Vs T5- 2W
Vs T6- 1W

Devourer (18 shots)
Vs T3- 6W
Vs T4- 4.5W
Vs T5- 3W
Vs T6- 1.5W

So pt for pt the devourer is the best gun (and has better range)... but you become very fragile. Spinefists are pretty rubbish. I think spike rifles could be very underated... the added range could be very useful at times and its cheaper then doing it with devourers, although they should have got the old 24" range if they were really going to become a viable option (ah, more 2nd ed nostalgia).Hope they re-do the spike rifle model too... it was the best looking gaunt around (although the body now looks very dated).
Strangleweb is useless unless you need the pinning (but devourers are better at that too), its the price of 3 fleshborers, which will almost alwayd do more damage (and the strangleweb still needs to fluke a wound to make the enemy take a pinning test).


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> So pt for pt the devourer is the best gun (and has better range)... but you become very fragile. Spinefists are pretty rubbish. I think spike rifles could be very underated... the added range could be very useful at times and its cheaper then doing it with devourers, although they should have got the old 24" range if they were really going to become a viable option (ah, more 2nd ed nostalgia).Hope they re-do the spike rifle model too... it was the best looking gaunt around (although the body now looks very dated).
> Strangleweb is useless unless you need the pinning (but devourers are better at that too), its the price of 3 fleshborers, which will almost alwayd do more damage (and the strangleweb still needs to fluke a wound to make the enemy take a pinning test).


Strangleweb is expensive yes, but I think it's great if you're planning on charging people.
Look at it this way, for the same cost, you get 3 Termagaunts.
Against, for example, IG.

3 Termagaunts: 3 shots, 1.5 hits, 1 wound, no save.
Strangleweb: 1 shot, let's say it hits 6 dudes, maybe more, that's 2+ wounds, and 1.33+ failed saves.

Now yes, against T4 chaps, it's basically worse off, but against T5 and T3 it's FAR better.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Thats assuming that you get into range (hitting 6 guys is essentially range 2", more likely to be 2-4 at longer ranges) and if the enemy is properly spaced out then it'll never do as well as a 3 fleshborers... if there is any doubt then the fleshborers have it as they would be 3 times harder to kill then a single strangleweb gaunt.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> Thats assuming that you get into range (hitting 6 guys is essentially range 2", more likely to be 2-4 at longer ranges) and if the enemy is properly spaced out then it'll never do as well as a 3 fleshborers... if there is any doubt then the fleshborers have it as they would be 3 times harder to kill then a single strangleweb gaunt.


True enough.
Frankly if Gaunts can't do it in great enough numbers, then you're fucked!

Strangleweb would probably be good if you were using them to Outflank, or in a pod, because you have limited numbers in that case.

Anyway, it all relies on the structure of your army.
If you have lots of anti-MEQ, then Stranglewebs are great for taking out lighter infantry, but still a niche weapon.


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## bakoren (Nov 16, 2009)

Thank you Tim/Steve for the "Mathhammer". I was good, I had everything about the old one down. Now because of the new codex, I stumble and trip noobishly about.


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## Zer0 (Jan 13, 2009)

The only thing that really irks me about the new codex is spinegaunts, but that's mostly my own fault. I _just_ finished painting up a batch of 16 spinegaunts and started converting a batch of 20 Termagants on the basis of them being cheaper cannon fodder. I should have just waited for the codex before putting in all the work. :ireful2:


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Winterous said:


> Frankly if Gaunts can't do it in great enough numbers, then you're fucked!


I'd agree with that, especially after watching a recent game and seeing a 30 gaunt unit cut through 2 full tactical squads and a terminator squad without breaking a sweat.


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## The Thunder of KayVaan (Jun 19, 2009)

I had a look at the death leaper today (from friends 'nid codex) and i can say i NEED to buy one now. i have always liked lictors but i found the fluff hysterical. Gonna buy one... or two... maybe three!


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## 'Nid mistress (Dec 2, 2009)

Some things in this codex confuse me, like the biomorphs and stuff. I mean...why did they have to make them so limited. There looks like there is virtually no options like the acid maw and 'fex special 'morphs like the thornback. What is up with that?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

'Nid mistress said:


> Some things in this codex confuse me, like the biomorphs and stuff. I mean...why did they have to make them so limited. There looks like there is virtually no options like the acid maw and 'fex special 'morphs like the thornback. What is up with that?


Economics, I'd imagine.

Make the Carnifex, a fantastically detailed kit (but one that everyone owns multiples of by now) obsolete in game to encourage everyone to buy the new shiny monster, the Trygon/Trygon Prime/Mawloc.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Economics, I'd imagine.
> 
> Make the Carnifex, a fantastically detailed kit (but one that everyone owns multiples of by now) obsolete in game to encourage everyone to buy the new shiny monster, the Trygon/Trygon Prime/Mawloc.


The Carnifex is by no means obsolete in game, it has just been overshadowed in many ways.
It's slower than a Trygon, it's also less tough than it, and it can't serve as general a purpose.
However, it hits like a TRUCK, and has some very powerful abilities; namely Bio-Plasma and Frag Spines, and also the ability to molest units in cover (something Tyranids lack these days, almost nothing has Frags).

I would never call it obsolete, it just needs a little cunning to use now.


And also, a few of the Biomorphs you got for the Carnifex in 4th ed were utterly useless.
Bio-Plasma, the only reasonable use it served was against Skimmers, since it'd hit on 4+ no matter what.
Acid Maw, was only EVER useful against Wraithlords, and even then it was a waste of points.

Now you're free to use the pieces, and not have to take the corresponding Biomorph as well, a lot of the bits look AWESOME, but people didn't use them because it was shit in-game.


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## 'Nid mistress (Dec 2, 2009)

But now now, acid maw is pretty good, and now they make it unable to be used by anything other than the pyrovores. That was not a good deal there, in my opinion. You can have the cool head but it wont do crap.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

'Nid mistress said:


> But now now, acid maw is pretty good, and now they make it unable to be used by anything other than the pyrovores. That was not a good deal there, in my opinion. You can have the cool head but it wont do crap.


Acid Maw was GOOD on a Carnifex?
Um, no?

You would re-roll to WOUND only on the FIRST round of combat.
You were wounding on a 2+ against anything BUT a Wraithlord, and that was only if you didn't have Toxin Sacs.
Most pointless Biomorph for a Carnifex there is.

But just because the Biomorph doesn't exist for Fexes anymore doesn't mean you can't use the head, it means you finally CAN use the head without wasting points!
And it's an amazing head.
Look at that tongue ~<3

*ninja edit*
Hooray for only half-intended innuendo!


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## 'Nid mistress (Dec 2, 2009)

I agree that acid maw sucked in the old codex, but in the new codex for the pyrovore (the only 'nid that is able to use acid maw) it makes it so it ignores armour saves. And even if its a waste for a carnifex, there are many other 'nids that could benefit from this.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

'Nid mistress said:


> I agree that acid maw sucked in the old codex, but in the new codex for the pyrovore (the only 'nid that is able to use acid maw) it makes it so it ignores armour saves. And even if its a waste for a carnifex, there are many other 'nids that could benefit from this.


Yes.
But let's face it, Pyrovores aren't very good, and Boneswords are better


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## 'Nid mistress (Dec 2, 2009)

Well, in my opinion, in short, besides the cool new nids the new codex blows. Preferred the old rules to be quite honest. And they were simpler, less complicated, and allowed for more variation and customization.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

'Nid mistress said:


> Well, in my opinion, in short, besides the cool new nids the new codex blows. Preferred the old rules to be quite honest. And they were simpler, less complicated, and allowed for more variation and customization.


Just about the only things that I don't like about the new dex are:

Pyrovores aren't good enough for their cost.

MCs have the option of TL Deathspitters, or the FAR SUPERIOR Brainleech Devourer for the same cost.


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## 'Nid mistress (Dec 2, 2009)

Sorry, what does MC and TL stand for?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

'Nid mistress said:


> Sorry, what does MC and TL stand for?


Monstrous Creatures (I'm referring specifically to Hive Tyrants and Carnifexes).
And Twin-Linked.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

'Nid mistress said:


> Sorry, what does MC and TL stand for?


I mean no offense but how long have you been playing 40k? Also the new nid codex is a great piece of uh...Rules? IT is balanced and pretty funny! (Go Go Nomlock!) But if you are running pyrovor's i suggest replacing them with mr.deathleaper he is both cute and Deadly as a chain saw in a 5 year old's hands.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> I mean no offense but how long have you been playing 40k? Also the new nid codex is a great piece of uh...Rules? IT is balanced and pretty funny! (Go Go Nomlock!) But if you are running pyrovor's i suggest replacing them with mr.deathleaper he is both cute and Deadly as a chain saw in a 5 year old's hands.


What, you mean cute in the way that only Japanese people find cute and deadly only to the wielder?


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## 'Nid mistress (Dec 2, 2009)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> I mean no offense but how long have you been playing 40k? Also the new nid codex is a great piece of uh...Rules? IT is balanced and pretty funny! (Go Go Nomlock!) But if you are running pyrovor's i suggest replacing them with mr.deathleaper he is both cute and Deadly as a chain saw in a 5 year old's hands.


None taken. A couple of years, but nobody ever used those abbreviations when I was around so I didn't know. Yes I know the codex is a rulebook...obviously...and I was saying that there are new rules that would have been best left alone. Is that a crime? I think not.


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## raven925 (Apr 16, 2008)

ok, i love how when ever a new dex comes out everyone has to jump on the forums and complain about how bad the new dex is, and its for every dex that comes out. some armys havent ever gotten a new codex and some people complain about getting a new one, in my view there are two things im either going to do when i get a new dex for daemonhunters.

1. If i think it just blows, then ill stop playing that army and play a new one.

2. if i either dont have money to start a new army or still want to give it a shot, ILL TRY TO MAKE THE ARMY WORK.

theres people winning GT's with out-dated armys. why? because they make them work, so instead of sitting around and complaining about the codex, maybe you should try to give it a shot the best you can. and i can understand that somethings are not what you expect them to be and some things arnt fair but guess what? lifes not fair.:threaten:


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

'Nid mistress said:


> None taken. A couple of years, but nobody ever used those abbreviations when I was around so I didn't know. Yes I know the codex is a rulebook...obviously...and I was saying that there are new rules that would have been best left alone. Is that a crime? I think not.


If you are unsure of acronyms just hover the mouse over them- most things highlighted in bold will have little pop up boxes telling you what the normal uses of those letters are. eg BRB


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

raven925 said:


> ok, i love how when ever a new dex comes out everyone has to jump on the forums and complain about how bad the new dex is, and its for every dex that comes out. some armys havent ever gotten a new codex and some people complain about getting a new one, in my view there are two things im either going to do when i get a new dex for daemonhunters.
> 
> 1. If i think it just blows, then ill stop playing that army and play a new one.
> 
> ...


That's true, there are many outdated armies which are still capable of putting up a fight when used intelligently and when composed intelligently. I've done very well with my Thousand Sons and everyone told me to spam oblits, plague marines and lash princes.


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## 'Nid mistress (Dec 2, 2009)

Im not saying that I will give up all hope for my nids, because, lets face it, I love 'em to death. No matter how annoying some rules are, i will continue to make them work to my advantage as best I can. And besides, who wouldn't be excited for a freaking Trygon!


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## bakoren (Nov 16, 2009)

The only negative points that I felt were a stupid fex turned super retarded and the heavy cost of everything....oh and the shieldwall rule.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

bakoren said:


> The only negative points that I felt were a stupid fex turned super retarded and the heavy cost of everything....oh and the shieldwall rule.


I think that, besides the point cost, the Fex got a huge buff.
Now he can get up to I4 on the charge, which is incredible!
Oh, and Crushing Claws are worth using now.


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## candykane (Apr 28, 2010)

its bin a few months what do you guys think?

I have tryed it for a few months now and there are few good things in the new codex and load of stuff I don't like but oke i could live with the idea that from now on things would be more ballanced

then The blood angel codex came out with its blood talons, deepstike and assault , dreads with wings and dont forget the space wolfs , they got real over powered chars and a pair of rune priests with both jaws of the wolf . 
Can some one tell me why do guys that drop miles from the sky get to deep strike only scater d6 shoot and assault but we have a more expensive licktor thats on the bloody battlefield just hiding just get to pop his head out say here i am shoot me.

Now im just leaning to say the new nid codex = crap
we got B.... F....
The blood angels and de Space wolfs reek of cheese. i want cheese 
I fight blood angels on a regular basis. and its not fun. 
Where is the F.. ballance? 
we nids deserve a better codex! or the others should get nerved.
this feels like trash like its bin written to sell new models! 

think we all have models a lot that are rubbish now 
i have 6 lictors that gather dust but cause why would i field them same goes for the ravengers, then I got 2 red terrors what should i do with them? or 20 spore mines collecting dust with 3 biovores behind them

I have tryed the new big models and there crap... they look great but get killed so easy where is my 2+ save upgrade for the big guys???
normal SM with bolters can just kill it. 

Then there is the lack of anti tank and walker, that used to be fine because there were not that many dreads out there being used now they have wings blood talons 
they nerve the spore mines so what am i to do field nerved carny's and pray for the best? any of you bin up against the new blood talons?
yes you could go use zoats but what good is that? you can only kill 1 tank / walker a turn. and mine is usually fielding 2-3 tanks and a few dreads its basicly role over play dead.


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## xXRich07Xx (Apr 24, 2010)

Treewizard648 said:


> The Tyranid might is awesome, because of the new codex I might need to "bring out the fat lady". (when I say that, I mean I am going to spend alot of time with plasticard making a deathstrike missile launcher)
> 
> .


If you decide to, do please make a project thread for it. I'd love to see one being assembled =D


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

candykane said:


> they nerve the spore mines


WRAUNG, WRAUNG WRAUNG WRAUNG!
Spore Mines and Biovores were buffed HUGELY, they're now actually worth taking.

And for anti-tank, consider taking Hive Guard, they are inarguably one of the BEST light anti-tank units in the game.
For heavier vehicles you NEED Zoanthropes or Monstrous Creatures, because you simply don't have any other option.


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## marcch (Apr 1, 2008)

I've been playing with the new codex for a bit now and am now tweaking my army to better take advantage of it. I must admit that some stuff got screwed over but overall it's pretty good. Spore mines are actually worth taking and the synapse issue is much improved by proper application of the new instinctive behavior rules. The Trygon and Mawloc are good units if applied and supported correctly.


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## BEAST0718 (May 17, 2010)

*New Dex*

Hi, I just joined the forums and thought that I would tack my 2 cents on to this thread. I have also gootne the new codex and have taken my Nids for a test run with the New rules. My thoughts are that the new Dex is really one of the better balanced Nids Codex out there. Sure, most of the MC's are way more expensive and you don't get to trick them out as much. But with the new rules you don't need to. 

No more living ammo for the Devourer, oh well, it now has 3 shots and a fixed strength. The same for the Deathspitter, 3 shots instead of a template. Almost your entire army can be outfitted with poison attacks, and Some of the new units allow for some interesting conversions and modeling cahllenges.

I'll post more later, but I say try them on the table a few games before making any real judgements.

BTW, I've been playing nids since 2ED.


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