# Are Space Marines Immortal?



## xNoPityx (Dec 23, 2010)

I was just rereading Horus Rising and it said that the space marines are, for all intents and purposes, immortal. They only die if they are killed. But I swear I remember reading somewhere, I think in the space wolf books, that marines have died of natural causes. Is there a set answer or is it up in the air for the moment?


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## comrade (Jun 30, 2008)

Well... I'm pretty sure that space marines can live for 100s of years, they are not immortal, Custodes _MAY_ be Immortal, other then that the Mechanicum are the closest to immortal, once thier bodies give out on them they clone a new body (only upper ranking mechanicum do this) and transfer their brain.

The oldest Space Marines are Dreadnaughts, most of which don't remember the Heresy, and most SM's die before reaching 'old age'


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

as far as I have read they are not immortal but can become rather old, the oldest I have read about (in real space, not the warp) (salamander) was 10 K years, and he was pretty worn out to the extent that he could only sit down, it might have been that with the correct medical treatment he could have been revived, but that did not happen, so I would say without any replacements they can last a few thousand years


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

This thread goes into quite a big discussion about just how old Astartes can get

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69821&highlight=astartes+immortal+qruze


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

In _Prospero Burns,_ there's a rune priest who complains of aching joints and old age. He was one of the few SWs left who were born on Terra.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Theres not alot of consistency with the effects of aging, during the Heresy in particular. Both the aforementioned rune priest and Iacton Qruze are both Terrans and seem to show signs of age and weariness. Yet Garro, Xaphen, Astelan and many other Terrans don't show any such signs.


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## IanC (Sep 3, 2010)

I always thought that they live so long that they are essentially immortal. But they rarely live long enough, due to the constant fighting. Doesn't matter how good you are, you will eventually get shot/stabbed/stepped on by a passing walker/ran over/have an accident in the warp etc, etc.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Well as said above some of the characters in the Horus Heresy series are showing distinct signs of ageing whilst some aren't, with their ages around the 200 mark. But then even in 40k the Blood Angels are described as having quite a good longevity and live to become very old. But then how would you be able to tell this unless the other chapters have had astartes die of old age or become to old to take part in battles, where as the Blood Angels continue to plug on whilst maintaining their youth.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Astartes are immortal, for a given value of immortal. By which I mean that compared to you or I, then yes, they are immortal. Compared to something like a Primarch then no, they aren't.
If you had an Astartes and didn't make him fight, rather you just supported him with the chemo needed to keep his implants running at peak efficiency, then you would have a person that could live for many thousands of years. In this case the biggest issue you will run into is the fact that he will become tremendously bored- no matter what he does there will come a point when he has done everything multiple times and will start to fade away as ennui takes hold. Even Dante, 1100 years old(?), who is still fighting is bored shitless by what he's doing, having done it all so many times it leaves him cold. Luckily for the Imperium, then, because of how they live, the average Astartes whilst appearing immortal, will just be very, very, very long-lived.
When it comes to the ennui issue, however, it might be better that the Astartes don't live for so long. If these warriors start to become so bored with life they'll try anything just to feel alive, to feel like they are experiencing things and that their life has some meaning. This suggests, unless they are heavily disciplined and monastic, there would be a long, slow slide towards Slaaneshi taint- just like the downfall of the Eldar society.

GFP


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I think Dante is well past that 1,100 years now. But then i wouldn't say he is bored shitless, more of his is tired and growing weary of the constant fighting and responsibility heaped onto him. I know it does specifically say falling to ennui, but i see that as more of a figure of speech, less than Dante actually thinking "fuck me i'm bored"


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Angel of Blood said:


> I know it does specifically say falling to ennui,


That sounds frighteningly like something from an Anne Rice novel. Maybe they're taking the whole angst ridden vampire thing too far. Damn the _Twilight_ generation.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

40k is an incredible dystopian universe. It doesn't shock me at all that living in it for over a millennium would leave someone incredibly jaded.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

I've always thought that the Astartes are not immortal.

They are said to be immortal because they can live for 1000 years +, and some can even live for ever if they are in that 'sleep' state thing, like in Salamander (I think he was 'sleeping', if not he was just sat their for 10,000 years...).

They are said to be immortal because basically none live past their battles. Dreadnoughts are immortal I think, seeing as they are basically machines. So as long as they are kept in good condition.

I think they can still die of old age like ordinary humans, the process is just massively extended. So say an ordinary human will get joint pains at 60, an astartes would at 12000 years, or something like that.

But the chances of one living that long is very unlikely.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

The first thing to remember is that there are maybe a dozen or more authors who write 40k-related fiction. They're not always on the same page as each other, and in some cases might not have been afforded the full scoop in terms of core fluff (see William King, whose otherwise excellent short story, "Deathwing", features Astartes getting ready to die of old age after less than two centuries of life).

The second thing to remember is that the Index Astartes article that has to do with Space Marine creation specifically states that the process by which this is accomplished has been corrupted by superstition, rituals, loss of knowledge, etc. Hence, quality (in terms of longevity) is going to vary from Chapter to Chapter. Even among Chapters with a good grasp of the technology, though, there will be exceptions wherein the process doesn't go as planned.

So, bottom line, my two cents' worth:
1. Astartes were _designed_ to be immortal. Hence, the "Horus Rising" statement regarding the Imperial gerontologists.
2. That aside, there were always going to be cases where not everything worked well (hence, the odd Astartes like Qruze--though he might have been a pre-Unification inferior model--or the Rune Priest from "Prospero Burns").
3. Ten thousand years and a whole lot of lost knowledge later, it's up to anyone to guess how long any given Astartes might live for. Astartes of certain Chapters, though, stay at physical peak longer (I think that's more accurate than "live longer") than others thanks to one factor or another--see Blood Angels and the benefit of Sanguinius' blood coursing through their veins, for instance.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Just a thought about the Blood Angels being the longest lived, maybe they just heal better than other Astartes?
After a couple of hundred years of constant fighting you're bound to pick up the odd knock and bump. Over such an extended period these would mount up to a point where even an Astartes would start to creek and crack a bit when they walk. 
Maybe the Blood Angels are just better at healing these minor bumps and bruises than their counterparts, meaning they take a lot longer before they start to suffer as a result of them.

So, if you were to keep an Astartes in a tank away from harm he may well live forever (a bit like being in a Dread) but out on the battle field, where he's going to get knocked around his body will give up prematurely.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I think when it comes to Astartes injuries, you might have a point. To my mind, there will be three (main) types of injury.
1. The Astartes has an injury that he can heal on-the-go. It doesn't slow him down and he doesn't need any fixing after the battle.
2. The Astartes sustains an injury during a battle. It slows him down, although he can carry on after a few minutes where his spuer-physiology does enough to get him on his feet, although he needs fixing back at base.
3. The Astartes is injured to the point were he can't carry on and needs to be med-evac'ed.
In reverse order, the third type of injury has the best chance of a good recovery right from the outset. The Apothecaries can make sure the healing is proceding correctly from the start and any augmetics can be worked on asap.
The second type of injury might, slighty counter-intuitively, be the best type of injury to sustain. The original damage is fixed, whilst the repairs done 'on the fly' by his body can be checked to see if they are going give the best possible result and be changed if they will cause long-term problems. There is also the fact that the Astartes' life isn't in danger as it might be with the third type of injury.
The first type of injury carries with it the greatest risk of occult (IE hidden) damage. The Astartes has no complaints and seems to be able to fight on with his Battle Brothers. However, over time the repairs done by his body might not give the best possible results; vascular injuries might have caused the body to 're-route' blood supply and whilst this helped the Marine to survive and stay in his feet, fighting, the new blood supply to his tissues might actually be sub-normal, causing a loss of performance. And this could be extrapolated over any injury that is seemingly unimportant. These small injuries build up over time, gradually reducing the performance of the Astartes until it becomes obvious; he might even look like he's aged when compared to his Brothers. It might be that when the Astartes body reaches this stage, of an accumulation of small injuries starting to have a deleterious effect, it is incredibly difficult to use surgery to sort them all out.
So, yes, I can see how there might be a way for injuries to 'catch-up' with a Marine, and how those who are better at healing unaided might live longer, or at least stay combat effective for longer (which is probably the same thing for a Space Marine!).
It would be interesting to see a correlation of age-effectiveness vs purity of geneseed of the loyal Chapters; might it be that 'better' geneseed means longer life (or a better resistance to the slow degredation of multiple smaller injuries), or is the relationship not as clear-cut as that? This being 40k, I can see it being the latter!


GFP


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Thinking a little more about it, maybe it could be a result of the Blood Angels 'designated' role or reason for being. The BA are famed as near peerless close combat fighters with a savage and brutal reputation. Only two other Legions really came close, the Space Wolves and World Eaters. 
Space Wolves do seem to age but don't really seem to suffer as a result and the World Eaters, well, they're anyones guess now. 
So, could it be, with the specific combat doctrines of these three legions being fairly similar they were designed to deal with injuries better than other legions who were less focused on close quarters combat?


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

normtheunsavoury said:


> could it be, with the specific combat doctrines of these three legions being fairly similar they were designed to deal with injuries better than other legions who were less focused on close quarters combat?


But aren't BAs only so fierce in CC because of the psychic imprint left by the death of giving them the black rage and red thirst, as opposed to them being originally designed as a CC oriented legion, just as the SWs seem to have been? 

Also, we don't really know if the WEs were another CC based legion before they were united with their primarch. Their blood lust might just be a reflection of Angron's presence among them.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

I always thought that the BA were viscous CC fighters before sang's death, the Black Rage/Red Thirst just pushing them even higher.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

As far as I am aware the Blood Angels were famed for savage close combat even before the fall of Sanguinius. As for the World Eaters, I'm sure they were pretty hardcore even before Angron started to lobotomise them.
It would make sense that Legions that were good at CC would have been designed to heal a little better than maybe the Imperial Fists, who prefer siege craft or the White Scars who prefer hit and run over out and out CC.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Aye the Blood Angels were described as pretty damn good shock troops, along with the World Eaters during the Crusade and up to the Heresy


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The Blood Angels and War Hounds (World Eaters pre-Angron) were the premier shock troops of all 18 Legions, savagery was pretty much how they operated.

When they were reunited with their Primarchs different things occured:
Angron actually made the World Eaters more bloodthirsty, whilst Sanguinius curtailed the overt butcher qualities of the BA.

Of course when Sanguinius died the BA went absolutely insane, the entire Legion stormed out of the Palace defences straight into the horde of traitors and just ripped anything within reach apart. Even the WE couldn't match them for fury, and by that point they were worshippers of Khorne!


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## LemonGurih (Dec 25, 2010)

I've never heard of a SM dying of old age


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> It would make sense that Legions that were good at CC would have been designed to heal a little better than maybe the Imperial Fists, who prefer siege craft or the White Scars who prefer hit and run over out and out CC.


Why does that make sense? If you are capable of designing (intentionally) marines capable of better self-repair why would you restrict that to only a couple of legions? Why not make all the legions better? Its not as though resources are an issue after all. 

No, to me it seems more likely that the superior healing ability of the BA (which I do see as a likely reason for their 'longevity') is a result of the unmeasurable impact of the Primarchs genes. It does after-all fit with their 'vampire' character if they are able to heal better and faster than others.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

But why would you bother?
Maybe the other Legions have different qualities built into them that are less apparent?
If it was possible to make all the Astartes the same why didn't the Emperor just make all the legions like the Luna Wolves and all the Primarchs like Horus?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

It could be like the Warhammer Fantasy Witch Elves/Hag Queens, except rather than bathing in blood it's drinking blood. The Blood Angels renew their bodies/youth by drinking blood, and so that's why they live longer. Just a maybe, but I think it's feasible.

Midnight


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> But why would you bother?


But why wouldn't you? What benefits exist to making one legion superior in a particular physical area but not others? As I've said, resources are not an issue for the Emperor.



> Maybe the other Legions have different qualities built into them that are less apparent?


But again, why would you set it up that way? I can see no benefit to intentionally creating different physical abilities in different legions. Not to mention that there is no evidence that this is the case.



> If it was possible to make all the Astartes the same why didn't the Emperor just make all the legions like the Luna Wolves and all the Primarchs like Horus?


He did make all the legions physically the same as the Luna Wolves (at least that's my contention and it is thus far backed up by the fluff). The legions preform different roles and prefer different tactics but they are physically the same. 

As for why not all the Primarchs are like Horus, I can think of two main reasons. One, the Primarchs are unique, it's quite possible that the creation of each individual primarch is not something that the Emperor could replicate, ie. He couldn't make them all Horus. Two, different strokes for different folks. Each Primarch had a specialty, an arena of combat where they were better than their brothers. This in turn lead to the legions specializations which allowed for different legions to better handle different situations. Also, three, how well did Horus turn out? Cause if I remember correctly he lead the Imperium destroying rebellion:laugh:.


@Midnight Sun:
Do the BA actually drink blood? I know that some of their splinter chapters occasionally do (and are generally ostracized for it) but I'm not sure its a common practice amongst the BA themselves.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Yes, the Blood Angels do drink blood


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