# Over Powered Stuff



## The-abominable-snowman (Sep 2, 2011)

What do you think is the most over powered thing in warhammer 40k

It could be a unit, a power, a character, a rule or anything else


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

I terms of potential, the Golden Rule is more powerful than any other as it makes all the other rules only apply if both players agree it do, so gives a player the ability to ignore any rule they do not like; however, no-one is likely to play that way.

Similar cases could be made for extreme interpretations of several rules, but only if playing very competitively. Outside of competitions I find the rules to be overpowered only in certain contexts (e.g. Grey Knight vs Daemons) rather than overpowered against all armies.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

Tourney players. They are so damn unfair! I always seem to lose no matter what time, place, scenario or army I use.

If there's anything overpowered about 40k, whatever race used, it's those damn tourney players. I don't think it's fair they win everytime just because they are better than me.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

Chaos Doomsday device from Apocalypse. Name another unit that for 400 points can potentially wipe out 9 square foot of the board.


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

The knee pads of allure - most broken thing in the entirety of the gaming universe.


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## OrdoMalleus (Apr 24, 2009)

Lord Kaldor Draigos Fluff..........


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

My special attack: 

The Ragequit Table Flip. 

Considering I always win with it, I`d say it`s pretty overpowered. :grin:


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

My Inquisitors Apocalypse special rule... It is extremely amusing...


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

The Terminator Titanhammer formation's Vortex Grenade for Apocalypse.

Grey Knights strike squad getting psyk-out grenades, force swords, storm bolters, preferred enemy, aegis, deep strike, and psychic powers for only 5 pts per model, when a power weapon for a space marine costs 15 pts alone.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Mat Ward... Fucks up everything he touches!

8th ed comes out, my VC's are now one of the game's worst armies! (because I use mainly skellies) So, because we had a few unused daemons laying around the store, I started a Daemon army figuring I could play both systems!

Now thanks to him my poor Daemons can't play anymore in 40k because over half the local scene have jumped on board the Gayward Knights bandwagon.
Seriously, how big of a moron is he to think that giving a marine prefered enemy: daemons, daemonbane force weapons, psy-out grenades, storm bolter & warp quake for 4pts more than a smurf = balanced?!!!
Hell, my friends have tried making 'soft' lists and I still need to bring a stupid netlist to stand upto the GK's they're so broken vs daemons...:headbutt:

Never thought I'd say this, but I think I'd rather have Gav 'whats playtesting' Thorpe back... At least his books either just outright sucked (CSM's) or were outright godly (Craftworld Eldar).
With Ward, you're left with a 'good' army that can compete, untill he just randomly decides to fuck you over for no real reason.


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## OrdoMalleus (Apr 24, 2009)

Why does every thread I seem to read involve Experiment 626 whinning about the new grey knights!!!!!

Sure they get a LOT of goodies, especially against chaos, but hey theyre daemonhunters theyre meant to! Actually, when you look at it your slightly better off with the new dex` becuase Im no longer WS5, S6 or ignore invulnreble saves.

However I can kinda understand as im having played GK since second edition I kinda enjoyed them being a unique army that now-one else really played...now it seems like every sod has them!!!!!


2nd Edition Grey Knights........, Now they really did Fuck every other unit over, but boy did you pay for it (600pts for a 3 man unit anyone )


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

experiment 626 said:


> With Ward, you're left with a 'good' army that can compete, untill he just randomly decides to fuck you over for no real reason.


First off, let's get this straight- before Codex: Grey Knights dropped Daemons were most certainly not a good army that can compete. Randomness in your deployment is bad, any balanced army bar Necrons could stomp them. Second, your incessant complaining is getting really annoying and really does not accomplish anything. The occasional bitch is fine, but like Ordo Malleus said, it seems that half the threads these days seem to involve you whining about how Ward rapes kittens and eats puppies, and it's getting really old. Perhaps if you spent less time on the webz whinging you'd be able to figure out some counter strategy to the Knights- who knows?


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

OrdoMalleus said:


> Why does every thread I seem to read involve Experiment 626 whinning about the new grey knights!!!!!


Haven't you guys heard? Every new codex that comes out is a game breaking book that utterly destroys every other codex ever released.

:wink:


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## Minizke1 (Feb 7, 2010)

I know I can't beat Grey Knights, so just for fun I put plasma weapons on every squad. pisses my opponent off nice and good, and gives me a tiny bit of happiness. And then the dreadknight comes and rapes me.


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

Minizke1 said:


> I know I can't beat Grey Knights, so just for fun I put plasma weapons on every squad. pisses my opponent off nice and good, and gives me a tiny bit of happiness. And then the dreadknight comes and rapes me.


Pretty much. A decent number of people dislike the GK and think their OP. We just don't complain as much.


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## HeadlessScarecrow (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't understand the whole "I hate grey knights because they're broken" argument. what's broken about them? even with templars I outnumber them 3 to 1. with nids, it isn't even funny. the grey knights players at my FLGS refuse to play me anymore. their reasoning usually consists of "I can't believe two 20 man barebones hormagaunt squads just killed my 8 man squad of paladins before they got a chance to hit back!" beating GK is not that hard. it's not easy, but it's not hard either. i've played roughly 10 or 12 games against GK, about half templar, half nids, and only lost once. 

but more on topic, I do think the warding stave is a little broken. sometimes they will get unlucky, but I've had a few games with GK players that used them and they get ridiculous. I had one tie up a trygon prime, trygon, and a ~15 man squad of termagants for 3 full turns. and I don't mean the squad, I mean the one guy with the stave.


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

Try playin with eldar against them. We can't get enough firepower to beat dreadknights without using fire dragons, which often don't kill them anyway and die before ever getting to take a second shot. Our only advantage in CC is Initiative but oh look they have a halberd so it doesn't matter. Psyker powers get negated. At 1500 pts I can't get enough AP2 shots without list tailoring. I don't know who you play against but he doesn't sound quite as good as my opponents with GK.
Try takin out 3 frikin dreadknights at 1500 pts without list taloring then say they aren't OP.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

GK should beat the living crap out of Tyranids, but only because they're pretty much MADE to do so. If you got 40 Hormagaunts into CC with Paladins, he did something wrong. VERY wrong. 


Doelago said:


> That dude was doing something wrong. Very wrong.


See, even Doelago thinks I'm right.

As for me? I hate players that are better than me. They always win! It's so unfair!

Midnight


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

HeadlessScarecrow said:


> their reasoning usually consists of "I can't believe two 20 man barebones hormagaunt squads just killed my 8 man squad of paladins before they got a chance to hit back!"


That dude was doing something wrong. Very wrong.


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## Minizke1 (Feb 7, 2010)

Samules said:


> Pretty much. A decent number of people dislike the GK and think their OP. We just don't complain as much.


I don't complain unless they start bragging. then I laugh.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Midnight


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## Oakley (Aug 19, 2011)

I'd say that the most overpowered thing in the system right now is the Grey Knight Dreadknight. At my local GW shop, they were having fun matches, and the dreadknights killed 17 orks in one attack. Also, it's far too effective against daemons.

Matt Ward has kind of messed up the system by giving Grey Knights prefferred enemies of daemons, and other things like that. It's like he gives you a good army then just stuffs it all up afterwards.


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

I would like to add this from my friend: "dark eldar warriors, when a basic troop unit is able to drop a DP from one round of shooting. Something is very wrong"

He later added more swear words after the same warrior squad dropped his second daemon Prince.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Oakley said:


> I'd say that the most overpowered thing in the system right now is the Grey Knight Dreadknight. At my local GW shop, they were having fun matches, and the dreadknights killed 17 orks in one attack. Also, it's far too effective against daemons.
> 
> Matt Ward has kind of messed up the system by giving Grey Knights prefferred enemies of daemons, and other things like that. It's like he gives you a good army then just stuffs it all up afterwards.


If someone could tell me HOW the dreadknight is over powered I'd love to hear it.

You have to spend so many points just to give them a ranged weapon (minimum 30 points). Otherwise it's just another T6 MC with a 2+ armor save and no Invul save that needs to run across the field to engage you in CC.

I see it coming I just turn my big guns to it and blow it up. Laz Cannons, Plasma, and meltas that I normally bring with me do the job.

Whats really funny is if you bring 3 of them to a 1500 point game chances are 1/3 of your points are going to their cost. For 3 models that can't capture objectives and are slow as hell.

Totally OP :laugh:


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

I took down my 1st dreadknight with Autolas predators + bike squad with specials. Waaaay too easy.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Wusword77 said:


> You have to spend so many points just to give them a ranged weapon (minimum 30 points). Otherwise it's just another T6 MC with a 2+ armor save and no Invul save that needs to run across the field to engage you in CC.


Actually, Dreadknights have a 5+ Invulnerable save, though they're still not too difficult to put down.


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## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

Dreadknights are terrible. Its a huge fucking point sink. 
If you upgrade it so it isn't slow as shit, more points gone.

You're better of complaining about psyfilemen.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I am going to crap all over this thread by stating that I think there is no such thing as an overpowered unit in the game.

I am one of those old fashioned types who views the game as more of a rock, paper, scissors style game. This means that where you think one unit is unbeatable there is in fact one normal unit in your army that can easily wipe the floor with it.

As for corrections the DK does have a 5++ invulnerable which is not the best but still pretty damn decent comparing to my lamenting Wraithlords who put up with a 3+ armour save when made from a harder material but thats beside the point.

As for the guy who moaned that Eldar suffer against GK's is talking out of their arse. Eldar get along pretty well since it only takes 1 cheeky Farseer with Runes of Warding (Or better yet Eldrad) to completely fuck up the GK psychic powers which they heavily invest in. Not to mention that Fire Prisms with holo-fields are more survivable and deal heavy damage against a low model count army.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Oakley said:


> I'd say that the most overpowered thing in the system right now is the Grey Knight Dreadknight. At my local GW shop, they were having fun matches, and the dreadknights killed 17 orks in one attack. Also, it's far too effective against daemons.
> 
> Matt Ward has kind of messed up the system by giving Grey Knights prefferred enemies of daemons, and other things like that. It's like he gives you a good army then just stuffs it all up afterwards.


a) Each Dreadknight is one less tank-chewing Psyfleman dread you need to worry about... Dark Ex is a bitch for us poor Daemons, but Bolt of Tzeentch fixes it, as do things like Soul Grinders (as they're immune to Dark Ex) and Skulltaker loves fighting them. (as long as the GK player isn't being a RAW asshat who insists 'Taker's rending ability is part of his Hellblade's built-in abilities...)
Dreadknights are just 1 more monstrous creature to everyone else, and a real PITA to daemons.

b) Grey Knights most definately do deserve to have Prefered Enemy: Daemons - they're "Daemonhunters"! Prefered enemy is actually one of the few senible things Ward did...

Now, warp quake on 2 units - one of which can make a Turn1 30" shunt, dark ex for cheap on libbies, banishers, truesilver armour, cheap I6 halberds for purifiers, wound allocation paladins & anti-psyker abilities are the OTT stuff.
And everyone has reason to hate psyco-'nades and Fortitude spam.



Hopefully Necrons can come in November, then the bandwagon can move on...


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I don't like a lot of Matt Ward's writing and think he needs to tone things down a bit, but there are only 2 things that I think really should be changed because of being OP:

1- free Dark Excomunication on NDKs. If a libby has taken it and it screws me that's one thing... but a decent unit that it massively spammed by the local GK players having it standard is just too much.
In general I would also stop it from affecting hellblades, rending claws, ironhide and BofBG: abilities are one thing, weapons/armour is quite another and an anti-psychic gift being erased by a psychic power is just silly (bets that if daemons had a new dex BotBG would grant total immunity to psychic effects and a 2++ vs psychic weaponry).

2- Sanguinary priests. Nothing wrong with making them UC apothecaries affecting single units... but instead we have ~100pt mini-characters that can give a whole army FNP (I've played against an army that had total FNP coverage from 1 priest.. not nice for necrons who have an almost complete lack of FNP ignoring weaponry).

EDIT- 3- If the new necron dex gave all gauss weapons rending I think that would be massively OP. I don't believe it will, but there have been rumours...


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

IMHO, the real problem with Dark Ex lies in the fact that every single ability plus the kitchen sink is technically a 'Daemonic Gift', because the rules are all listed in the 'Daemonic Gifts' section of our 'dex...

Ward could have shown a couple brain cells worth of intelligence though and better defined to GK players what a Daemonic Gift was... (ie: it shouldn't negate steeds or marks of chaos or basic rending!)
It'd still be epic nasty if it simply stopped hellblades, plagueswords and the like from working. But somehow it also pulls the nails off of daemonettes and causes beats of nurgle to piss cleanly distilled water too?!?


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

experiment 626 said:


> Now, warp quake on 2 units - one of which can make a Turn1 30" shunt, dark ex for cheap on libbies, banishers, truesilver armour, cheap I6 halberds for purifiers, wound allocation paladins & anti-psyker abilities are the OTT stuff.
> And everyone has reason to hate psyco-'nades and Fortitude spam.


l don't know how many times l have said this but, dark ex for cheap on libbies, banishers, truesilver armour, l am yet to use or see anyone use. Why? because noone l know runs them due to the fact they are only good vs chaos deamons.

its like playing IG and when you vs a DE player all your lascannons some how change to a auto cannon and all your tank are gone as well.

vs a chaos player and out come 6 leamon russ. You can tailor your list to rape someone else and most races can do this with ease, GK vs deamons is not the only one out there. 

To be honest l don't think any unit is OP just some that are under powed (just take a look at the necron book) but anyone who builds a list just to kill one army is a dick, and are no fun to play with.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

sybarite said:


> l don't know how many times l have said this but, dark ex for cheap on libbies, banishers, truesilver armour, l am yet to use or see anyone use. Why? because noone l know runs them due to the fact they are only good vs chaos deamons.


Just because you've never run into it, doesn't mean absolutely no one anywhere ever takes those upgrades! Daemons were big in my local area - hence GK's players that I'm likely to face will work these things into their lists!
These upgrades are cheap. In my local area, we play large games. 1500 - 1750pts is about the smaller sizes. Most games, pick-up & tourny are 1850 - 2k+.
With the extra pts, GK's tend to add in these additional upgrades because they have a few pts left over.

For example, it's quite common for me to see a Banisher in any Deathcult/crusader squad in a Coteaz list. Why? Because at the very least it adds a MC equivalent attack to protect the unit from any walkers. On the plus side, you fuck Daemons royally should you happily draw a game against them!
Local Draigowing lists are adding in Interceptors at the 2k - 2500pts mark. It gives them added mobility and a way to rapidly contest objectives, plus you screw over enemy deep strikers and make them play on your terms by dictating where they can land safely... As a happy bonus, Daemons cry!

If at 1700pts or higher, you have 5pts spare, why not invest in Dark Ex? In an all-comers tourny list, it's a decent buy because it can make 1 potential match-up very easy!
Same deal for the local GK players who run the odd non-psyfleman dread... Truesilver armour hurts not only daemons, but tyranids, CW eldar, other GK's and such! It's a paltry pts cost for the fact there's a wide range of things it'll hurt and is a decent idea on a dread you intended to march up the table/drop out of a storm raven!


You don't need to list tailor to include these things, alot of it has merit in all-comers lists, especially if your local meta leans heavily towards chaos/psykers!


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

experiment 626 said:


> Just because you've never run into it, doesn't mean absolutely no one anywhere ever takes those upgrades!


l know this, there is always going to be that guy who wants to make someone cry and as l said before someone making a list just to win vs one type of army is a dick.

Yes, l guess if there is a big army in the local area, like lets say 60% of the players play orks green horde. flamers might get taken more in that area etc, etc.

as a side note if you do look at most of the GK tony list that have won like the winner of the NOVA Invitational, they don't use any of those.

l have only seen one list that has one with banishers and as you said is taken to protect the unit from any walkers. If you do find a tony list that runs Ture sliver l will take it back.

example's below from nova. 

http://www.baldandscreaming.com/arm...nament-finalist-allan-hernandez-grey-knights/

http://www.baldandscreaming.com/army-lists/nova-open-invitational-winner-nick-nanavati-grey-knights/


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

sybarite said:


> l know this, there is always going to be that guy who wants to make someone cry and as l said before someone making a list just to win vs one type of army is a dick.
> 
> Yes, l guess if there is a big army in the local area, like lets say 60% of the players play orks green horde. flamers might get taken more in that area etc, etc.
> 
> ...


Grey Knights won the Invitational, Space Wolves played by Tony Kopach won the Open (again, that's three tournament wins for him in a row). The Wolves beat the Knights in the final game.

Other than that, everything you say is correct and I agree. People that are running Dark Excommunication and truesilver armor are either awful list writers or assholes tailoring to screw over poor Daemon players who have a hard enough time as it is.

626, seriously, stop playing Daemons. You'll enjoy the hobby more. Just do what I did and put them in a box for a few years until GW sorts them out, then you'll have fun with the hobby again.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Or..... Run Daemons as "Traitor" Grey Knights. Daemon princes use dreadknight rules, etc... That'll show em!


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

jaysen said:


> Or..... Run Daemons as "Traitor" Grey Knights. Daemon princes use dreadknight rules, etc... That'll show em!


Use Khorne Beserkers as the troop models? *coughKhornateKnightscough*


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Mephiston, Thunderwolves, Doom of Malant'ai, Grey Hunters, Jaws of the World Wolf, all things Grey Knights, Flying Dreadnoughts, Thunderhawks, Valkeries, Vendettas, Leman Russ tanks, Bunny Rabbits.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

DestroyerHive said:


> Mephiston, Thunderwolves, Doom of Malant'ai, Grey Hunters, Jaws of the World Wolf, all things Grey Knights, Flying Dreadnoughts, Thunderhawks, Valkeries, Vendettas, Leman Russ tanks, Bunny Rabbits.


How do you enjoy the game if roughly half the units in it are OP in your eyes?


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## Abomination (Jul 6, 2008)

There is nothing in the game that is over-powered or broken. Grey Knights are weak and can be beaten with Sisters Of Battle, Jotww is not that good - there are much more effective things and Matt Wards fluff, while not scaling the literary heights of Shakespeare or HG Wells, is not mind shatteringly awful. In fact it's quite readable and on rare occasions can actually be decent. And the BA - Necron alliance is quite understandable given the BA's were probably happy to play with some hard metal men being the boy lovers they are and not the real men Space Wolves are.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

> How do you enjoy the game if roughly half the units in it are OP in your eyes?


Yes, yes I do, since I own 75% of those units I just listed :biggrin:


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Actually, I'll second the Doom of Malan'tai... I normally refuse to use if, but I don't feel such qualms when fighting GK


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

JotWW and in Apocalypse, the Reinforcements Asset. The shit that's been dropped on my head with that piece of crap is ridiculous. With regards to the Doom, I don't find it too much of a problem really. I just either sit in my nice comfy rhino, one-shotting it with a lucky melta shot, or just overwhelming it with bolter fire. And seeing as my army is MEQ, I don't take too many casualties when it alpha strikes a unit, so is pretty much wasted there. Though I can see the issues it presents to footslogging armies, particularly for it's points cost.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Actually, Dreadknights have a 5+ Invulnerable save, though they're still not too difficult to put down.


Right, I forgot that the rider is wearing termie armor.


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## hells (Mar 11, 2011)

Stephen_Newman said:


> I am going to crap all over this thread by stating that I think there is no such thing as an overpowered unit in the game.
> 
> I am one of those old fashioned types who views the game as more of a rock, paper, scissors style game. This means that where you think one unit is unbeatable there is in fact one normal unit in your army that can easily wipe the floor with it.


i doubt a balance like that is ever possible, everything is so varied and wide it makes it imossible for everything to be balanced, ill use our lovely new living saint as an example, shes I and WS 7 with 6 attacks on the charge wounding on 4+ with a heavy flamer, 2+/4++ and to top it off, shes unkillable, shoot her in the face with half your army, 50/50 chance each turn shell get right back up and destroy another squad, how is it balanced that 2 armies now have a model that is next to impossible to get rid off?




Wusword77 said:


> Haven't you guys heard? Every new codex that comes out is a game breaking book that utterly destroys every other codex ever released.
> 
> :wink:


my sisters of battle beg to differ :angry:




Abomination said:


> There is nothing in the game that is over-powered or broken. Grey Knights are weak and can be beaten with Sisters Of Battle.


*used to be able to

didnt you get the memo that were not liked anymore  havent vs'ed gk with new rules, might be next week but i dislike my chances t be able to fight, exorcists will be the main strength and if any gk has brains it will be the first to go, with rending gone my standerd squads will maybe kill 1 - 2 termie a shooting phase, repenta will be massacred as per normal, melta guns will scare them a lil but considering to shoot at them i need to be in assualt range of 2+ amoured giants with pw's theyll chew a squad a charge :/


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> JotWW and in Apocalypse, the Reinforcements Asset. The shit that's been dropped on my head with that piece of crap is ridiculous. With regards to the Doom, I don't find it too much of a problem really. I just either sit in my nice comfy rhino, one-shotting it with a lucky melta shot, or just overwhelming it with bolter fire. And seeing as my army is MEQ, I don't take too many casualties when it alpha strikes a unit, so is pretty much wasted there. Though I can see the issues it presents to footslogging armies, particularly for it's points cost.


Yeah, against a mech army the doom isn't that effective, and needs tactics to make it work. But you if you find yourself against a infantry heavy army with little or no S8+ (or ID) weaponry then you are going to destroy them with 1 model, and that just seems a bit iffy to me.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Tim/Steve said:


> Yeah, against a mech army the doom isn't that effective, and needs tactics to make it work. But you if you find yourself against a infantry heavy army with little or no S8+ (or ID) weaponry then you are going to destroy them with 1 model, and that just seems a bit iffy to me.


Infantry-based armies with little to no S8+ are garbage armies that deserve to get completely annihilated by one model for being so bad. So all is right in the world.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

... like necrons. Oh wait, most people think they're garbage anyway


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Tim/Steve said:


> ... like necrons. Oh wait, most people think they're garbage anyway


Yes, exactly like Necrons.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

hells said:


> i doubt a balance like that is ever possible, everything is so varied and wide it makes it imossible for everything to be balanced, ill use our lovely new living saint as an example, shes I and WS 7 with 6 attacks on the charge wounding on 4+ with a heavy flamer, 2+/4++ and to top it off, shes unkillable, shoot her in the face with half your army, 50/50 chance each turn shell get right back up and destroy another squad, how is it balanced that 2 armies now have a model that is next to impossible to get rid off?


Yeah, but then consider that everything else in the army that isn't a dominion or retributor is garbage... Just shoot the troops off the board, and the rest follows. Or even better; don't kill her, just bury her in a guardsmen blob + commisar...



hells said:


> my sisters of battle beg to differ :angry:


You've just got to look for the silver lining-

At least tyranids are no longer the worst 5th edition codex! 



hells said:


> *used to be able to
> 
> didnt you get the memo that were not liked anymore  havent vs'ed gk with new rules, might be next week but i dislike my chances t be able to fight, exorcists will be the main strength and if any gk has brains it will be the first to go, with rending gone my standerd squads will maybe kill 1 - 2 termie a shooting phase, repenta will be massacred as per normal, melta guns will scare them a lil but considering to shoot at them i need to be in assualt range of 2+ amoured giants with pw's theyll chew a squad a charge :/


Nah man, Heavy Bolter Retributors are the saving grace of the Sisters's codex- especially against the prevalent light mech and foot Grey Knight armies, these are pretty brutal... Add in outflanking melta dominions and minimum troops in Immolators, and you might just have a viable strategy... Although it will still be an uphill battle...


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

> With regards to the Doom, I don't find it too much of a problem really.


Try telling that to my Crisis Suits. You can't kill three squads of them just by coming onto the table and not deem it overpowered .

Granted, when _I_ use him, he never does anything against those Ld9 Spess Mahreens.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I find few codex's truly have anything that could be called OP, but certain modern codex's do have max min lists that definitely give a horrific advantage to certain modern codex;s that rides the edge of what mid 5th codex's can handle.

GK's and DE being the worst with their mech horde tactics as they can spam a sickening amount of fire power into multiple cheap units that pushes the boundaries of what most armies can deal with up until the 1750pts range. These spamming strategies are typically not that strong in other codex's do to in built limitations on vehicle weaponry or special weapon numbers, but as these limits are typically either liter or none existent in these armies the hitting power of these cheap units at range is triple that of the typical mech riders.


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## The-abominable-snowman (Sep 2, 2011)

HeadlessScarecrow said:


> but more on topic, I do think the warding stave is a little broken. sometimes they will get unlucky, but I've had a few games with GK players that used them and they get ridiculous. I had one tie up a trygon prime, trygon, and a ~15 man squad of termagants for 3 full turns. and I don't mean the squad, I mean the one guy with the stave.


thats so awsome


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