# WHY is the Imperium so inefficient/slow anyways?



## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

It takes years for reliable information to get to Terra, decades for the bureaucracy to process the information, and then another set of decades for the response to take effect. All in all, the timeframe is measured in centuries. 

Likewise, the tech-priests are similar. They have to re-study their own technology, and it takes them centuries to build a star cruiser.

_Why?_ Why are they so slow? The Tau are not that slow. They build very large ships in far less time. 

What is the cause of the inefficiency?


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## ElTanko (Mar 4, 2010)

For the information I can only suggest its the distance the info has to travel. Its across an entire galaxy which would take time in itself, and if its sent through the warp, then it gets...well, warped I guess! 

As for making ships etc, maybe the Tau are just far better organised. Theres got to be a hell of a lot ofinformation kept in various places that are needed. If one gets lost, then the rest halts as they cant continue without it etc

ElTanko


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

Well the tech priests are so ineffective (no offense intended here) is because their so ridiculously religious about the whole procedure. They don't just go start putting the machines together with the most efficient machines, they put them slowly together while praying and pouring incense over each part. Also only a few worlds have the 'honor' of making Baneblades. If it were the Tau anywhere would be allowed to make Baneblades so long as they have resources


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

The Imperium comprises literally millions of worlds. And, as said before, information travels very slowly, often having to work its way through various channels, like a game of telephone.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Also it should be noted that Imperial ships are far far bigger and complex than Tau ships.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

To continue along the Tau-Imperial comparison for a second. The Tau Empire technologically (and even as a society) is much more efficient that the Imperium is, this is in part due to the Caste structure and the influence of the generally competent Ethereals.

Where as the Imperium's technological inefficienty stems from the Adeptus Mechanicus itself generally speaking. The AdMech is highly paranoid and ritualistic when it comes to Technology. They base their technology on the past, instead of looking to the future via invention for a start. They hold that the greatest technological age of Man has long passed, and they cling to the belief and dogma that they can scrape together some resemblence of the old ways - which is obviously based around the discovery of STC blueprints. However this way, more technology is lost than found and the Imperium as a result is sliding further and further into the depths of technological despair.

As for Imperial bureaucracy, well as others have said, that is the result of the Imperium being a galactic-spanning Empire, yet still essentially being ruled by a single world.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

The imperial beurocracy.

They have red tape gone made, It took earth over 2 thousand years to relalise that a planet had stopped paying tax (the redeemer LR C-SMs background). Everything that happens needs to be approved by a higher level and that takes a long time.


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## sartan2002 (Apr 15, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> To continue along the Tau-Imperial comparison for a second. The Tau Empire technologically (and even as a society) is much more efficient that the Imperium is, this is in part due to the Caste structure and the influence of the generally competent Ethereals.
> 
> Where as the Imperium's technological inefficienty stems from the Adeptus Mechanicus itself generally speaking. The AdMech is highly paranoid and ritualistic when it comes to Technology. They base their technology on the past, instead of looking to the future via invention for a start. They hold that the greatest technological age of Man has long passed, and they cling to the belief and dogma that they can scrape together some resemblence of the old ways - which is obviously based around the discovery of STC blueprints. However this way, more technology is lost than found and the Imperium as a result is sliding further and further into the depths of technological despair.
> 
> As for Imperial bureaucracy, well as others have said, that is the result of the Imperium being a galactic-spanning Empire, yet still essentially being ruled by a single world.


So basically to fix the Imperium, kill all Adeptus Mech and hire non paranoid and ritualistic scientists who look to the future. This speeds up reasearch and production. and because of this there will be new ways to deliver messages to speed up the the Imperial bureaucracy.  see all good now.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Puny humans and their red tape.

Orks see what they want to do and do it.

A necron lord or hive tyrant wills his army to action, and it acts.

The eldar can see what will happen, courtesy of farseers, and already know what to do.

The tau are naturally progressive and inventive, and they look constantly to the future.

But humans... we have to annoint, pray and bow to a cog before we can install it. Otherwise we will "anger its spirit" and it won`t work. Dumbasses.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

You blaspheme against the noble machine spirit Serpion!

I think its quite a nice way of portraying humanity's need for a sense of divinity and higher power, even a diffuse one, like the minor gods of pagan religions. 

How many times have you said to an appliance on the blink something along the lines of "why won't you work?!" half expecting an answer


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I read some bit of fluff somewhere that the Imperium is arranged the way it is to prevent insurrection. A Forge world by itself doesn't have the manpower to rebel, a Hive planet doesn't have the guns to rebel, a mining planet does't have the manufacturing to start a revolution. 

The consequence of this is that no planet can act independently of any other planet which incurs massive bureaucracy to arrange all the trade agreements etc. It also adds months of not years to production times waiting for raw materials, then shipping the finished product to where it is needed. 

Aramoro


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

This arrangement is to discourage heresy, but unfortunately it also quite often _causes_ heresy. If your food shipments had been forgotten for a few weeks and reserves were low, wouldn`t you be a little pissed?

Beaurocracy (spelling?) is both necessary and problematic. In reality and fiction.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

sartan2002 said:


> So basically to fix the Imperium, kill all Adeptus Mech and hire non paranoid and ritualistic scientists who look to the future. This speeds up reasearch and production. and because of this there will be new ways to deliver messages to speed up the the Imperial bureaucracy.  see all good now.


Yeah essentially that would theoretically be a step in the right direction. :grin:

Although practically the Imperium is way too far intertwined with the AdMech, to the extent where the AdMech and Imperium are now essentially one entity rather than two. As well as that the AdMech directly or indirectly has a monopoly on _all_ technology within the Imperium. Not only that but they are the ones that maintain the remnants of the STCs, they are the ones who build and maintain all of the Imperium's weaponary and technology, and they themselves maintain powerful armed forces. The Imperium is stuck with the AdMech whether they like it or not im afraid.



Barnster said:


> I think its quite a nice way of portraying humanity's need for a sense of divinity and higher power, even a diffuse one


I like that way of putting it  - Its also yet another example of hypocrisy/irony in the sense that it was actually the (secular) Emperor who indirectly created the Machine Cult and the Adeptus Mechanicus.


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## GWLlosa (Sep 27, 2009)

I thought one of the big 'bonuses' of having your technology rooted in the past is that without experimentation, its easier to control daemonic outbreaks. That is, that for invention and progress to work, you have to have a grouping of people who are encouraged to think critically and creatively, and experiment with things whilst being uncertain of the outcome. These same people would have access to impressive weapons and all of your existing technology. Would not these people be the logical targets for daemonic influence and corruption? In the fluff, several daemonic outbreaks are linked to even single people, under corrupt influences, engaging in rites and rituals that caused a portal to open. If you had an entire organization that was poking and prodding at the limits of the Empyrean regularly, this would happen MORE often. I forget where I heard it, but "An open mind is like a fortress, with its gates open and unguarded." The AdMech approach to technology may not be innovative, but it does seem safe.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

Barnster said:


> How many times have you said to an appliance on the blink something along the lines of "why won't you work?!" half expecting an answer


That's kind of how I always percieved it. The Imperium is so backwards and ignorant and its mechanics so out of touch with technology that the process of fixing machines basically amounts to a more complicated version of banging on it until it starts working again.

Of course, I realize this isn't quite true in practice. Machine spirits appear to be real, pleasing them does appear to have positive effects on the machines, and the priests themselves are supposedly quite adept at their work.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Could the machine spirits simply be a advanced neural network computer system? I really can't see the machince spirits having any vestige of sentience. The Imperium doesn't understand the system and then makes it into a divine being.

GWlolosa, Not all technology has to be interfering with the warp, the imperium is so rooted they don't want to even attempt to discover anything, about themselves or others. (kind of thinking that Magnus had a point in 1k sons..) 

And the quote was from Isador Akeos the librarian from DoW1


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

One thing people seem to overlook is that a lot of the ritual and red tape is a check on chaos shenanigans. Coming down on the Imperium and comparing it to those udder suckers in the Tau Empire really overlooks the cause of the Imperium's problems. 

Chaos can infect technology as well as living organisms. In essence the Imperium needs to be wary of new tech just in case it say opens a Warp Gate and floods a world with Daemons. 
A good example is in the first Gaunts Ghost novel when the Ghost's manage to find an STC machine capable of making the fabled "Iron Men" from back during the Golden Age. This at first seemed like a boon since it would give the Imperium an unlimited supply of soldiers. Unfortunatly it had been infected by Chaos and as a result had to be blown to hell. 

The Imperium NEEDS to be suspicious and paranoid and advance as carefully and slowly as possible. By comparison the Tau have it easy.


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## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

Coder59 said:


> The Imperium NEEDS to be suspicious and paranoid and advance as carefully and slowly as possible. By comparison the Tau have it easy.


Seconded. The imperium's biggest concern is heresy andeamons flooding around and thay need ho be caucious in order to prevent that.


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## Uberfork (Apr 12, 2010)

Well also regarding tau space travel, I think I read somewhere that they lack navigators or the equivalent of them, and are therefore not able to travel the warp in the same manner as the Imperium does. Correct me if I'm wrong...


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

the tau can't travel deep in the warp because they lack the gene, but they can make short warp hops. that way they don't have problems with the need for geller fields and daemon protection. Tau have it easy atm as their empire is centralised in a small region of space, the imperium is huge and diffuse


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## shmabadu (Oct 2, 2009)

Chaos infecting technology is one of the coolest aspects of the 40k universe and that bit in Gaunt's Ghosts with the infected STC was cool, but how is technology infected. Human minds are connected to the Warp because their thoughts are what create. How is technology exploited by Chaos, fluff wise?


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## Liam Eraser (May 6, 2010)

I believe it's all because of the fact that the Imperium is mostly just a decaying version of what it once was. They don't know their own technology. They know how to repair their own technology, but when it comes to building it they have lost the original blueprints so to say, they just continue on with what was made thousands of years ago and when the need arises to build something new, they have to look at what they have and try to re-create it, they have a completely stalled society that does not advance, only continues on with what they have.


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Size is the main cause of the inefficiencies. 

Of course the tech benefits cannot be overlooked but I think a major aspect of the Tau's success in governing and prospering compared to the imperium lies in the Tau's ideology of the greater good i.e. self sacrifice and the pursuit of prosperity; everyone shares the same ultimate goal and this is reinforced and encouraged through a rigid caste system. 

In comparison the imperium's main ideologies are to worship their god, hate mutant's, kill aliens and purge heretics which is not very progressive. Corruption is rife, technological advances strictly controlled if not out right forbidden, and they are in a constant state of war.


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