# Space Marine Armour - Helmet Seal



## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

Through all the many years of being involved with this hobby one thing has always bothered me about Marine armour as a 'sealed' environment. Quite often we see helmet-less marines but how, when they put their helmet back on, does the helmet seal up? How does it connect up to the rest of the armour to provide that all important atmospheric seal?

If anyone can point me to a book or bit of text that mentions the mechanics I would be most grateful.

Cy


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

You turn in on with a half thread so look hard right, helmet on and then lock it home as you turn to the front. It goes psssssshhh then your locked !

ALL the space man movies work like that.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

But won't it pop off when you look right again?

This is why I like being a robot. I don't have to worry about bullshit like "breathing" and "depressurized vacuum".


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## vipertaja (Mar 20, 2010)

Who knows? Maybe there's a system that's magnetically guided into place that then seals it upon contact? Consider that space marines have some fairly impressive stuff like retinal displays. There could even be some type of mental command I suppose, as they have some of those IIRC.


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

Magpie_Oz said:


> You turn in on with a half thread so look hard right, helmet on and then lock it home as you turn to the front. It goes psssssshhh then your locked !
> 
> ALL the space man movies work like that.


:laugh::laugh::laugh: That made me chuckle.

Every other bit of the armour is linked in some way...I always envisioned some kind of mag-lock system, but it doesn't work for the helmet. There is no discernible helmet lock on the neckdam of marines not wearing a helmet, however on helmeted marines the neckdam extends all the way to the underside of the helmet and could theoretically be similar to the the neckdam connection used on hard dive helmets such as the Kirby Morgan.

The only thing I can come up with is a neoprene type seal already on the helmet that connects up to the neckdam, given that the helmet provides autosenses and would need to connect up to the rest of the armour to power up, and it would need to be a relatively quick procedure too.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

The Emperor wills it so ?


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Iron Angel said:


> But won't it pop off when you look right again?
> 
> This is why I like being a robot. I don't have to worry about bullshit like "breathing" and "depressurized vacuum".


Hmmm maybe your right, perhaps if your Necron approached from the SM's right you'd get an insta kill?

"Look Brother, over there" 
"Noooooooooooooooooo"

Pop,Pop,Pop,Pop,Pop,Pop,Pop,Pop ...... (damn it stuck !) ... Pop !

"ah crap!"


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I figured it was some form of neoprene style gasmask/dive hood like fitting, but those are fucking awkward to get on quickly.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Thing is anything flexible will expand in a vacuum because inside has to be at 1 Bar.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Maybe they fixed that issue in 38,000 years time. Astronauts have flexible space suits now so it doesn't seem unreasonable they would have better ones.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Space Marines can survive in a vacuum anyway?

Who needs helmets when you've got mucranoids?

They could probably just seal the helmet with sticky backed plastic and they'd be fine...


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## Ferrous (Aug 21, 2011)

You can induce currents in an electric circuit without a physical plug, so it would be fairly easy to power up the helmets systems. Transferance of information should be fairly easy as well, even without a plug, an encrypted short range signal? 

In all of the instances of the helmets being removed in the background material, that I can think of, they describe a mechanical process of the helmet disengaging. So maybe a proximity sensor on the colar and the helmet that activates a program within the suits motivators, guiding the helmet on and off. Then have a metal colar in the helmet that can descend into the colar on the torso with a clamping system to lock it in place and a number of gaskets to ensure a hermetically sealed system.

The helmet still needs the neck to have motivators and some form of rotational assistance, like on a tank's turret, otherwise the astartes has to take all the weight and is vulnerable to having his head torn off, at least more so.

What we need is an educated opinion on the subject. Is there a mechanical engineer in the House?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Automated locking and sealing mechanisms that activate when the armour pieces are brought into proximity. 

Science Fiction armour 101.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Serpion5 said:


> Automated locking and sealing mechanisms that activate when the armour pieces are brought into proximity.
> 
> Science Fiction armour 101.


Yes that's the pssssh bit


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Gret79 said:


> Space Marines can survive in a vacuum anyway?
> 
> Who needs helmets when you've got mucranoids?
> 
> They could probably just seal the helmet with sticky backed plastic and they'd be fine...


I thought they had *temporary* survivability in a vacuum. Imagine purging a derelict Hulk... you're going to spend more than a couple minutes in airlessness. The seal itself, as far as I know, is magnetic.


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

Yeah, I am certain it would be a mag-lock seal, it's just you don't ever see it, either on the models or in the artwork and certainly not in the recent Ultwamawines film. I am looking at doing a series of drawings showing how the armour fits together...this is the only stumbling block so far and will remain so until someone can come up with a good answer, otherwise they may as well just be wearing a polo-neck sweater and a motorcycle helmet :laugh:


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## COMPNOR (Apr 21, 2010)

Cypher871 said:


> Yeah, I am certain it would be a mag-lock seal, it's just you don't ever see it, either on the models or in the artwork and certainly not in the recent Ultwamawines film. I am looking at doing a series of drawings showing how the armour fits together...this is the only stumbling block so far and will remain so until someone can come up with a good answer, otherwise they may as well just be wearing a polo-neck sweater and a motorcycle helmet :laugh:


I wouldn't trust the models too much... I mean I guess the models possibly came first, but even the scaling isn't right. Not to mention that reading about Armors on LExicanum, not all Armors had movable helmets, but if you look at the models yeah you can position them however you want.

Illustrations can be a different matter, but we can also put that down to artistic license. So really, there probably hasn't been a true representation. Your best bet would to be to look at the Corvus exploded view.

Looking at that, I would assume that Marines wear the neck piece, which the Helmet would seal on to. And if they often run around sans Helmet, they probably also forgo the neck piece for comfort/mobility of the head, whatever you want to call it.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

COMPNOR said:


> I wouldn't trust the models too much... I mean I guess the models possibly came first, but even the scaling isn't right. Not to mention that reading about Armors on LExicanum, not all Armors had movable helmets, but if you look at the models yeah you can position them however you want.
> 
> Illustrations can be a different matter, but we can also put that down to artistic license. So really, there probably hasn't been a true representation. Your best bet would to be to look at the Corvus exploded view.
> 
> Looking at that, I would assume that Marines wear the neck piece, which the Helmet would seal on to. And if they often run around sans Helmet, they probably also forgo the neck piece for comfort/mobility of the head, whatever you want to call it.


Are we doing the whole "SPESS MARHENS ARE BIGGERER THAN THE MODELS SAY!!!!" thing again?










If we assume the space marine is 7'6" like normal and the guardsman is 6', also like normal, I'd say its pretty accurate.










Face it Space Marine players. My Necrons are bigger than your Marines, and theres nothing you can do about it.


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## COMPNOR (Apr 21, 2010)

The point being models no matter how detailed aren't necessarily 100% accurate. Besides, necron players who go for bigger models are just compensating for other issues. =P


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## jonileth (Feb 1, 2012)

If it were me, I would say that the helmet itself probably has some manner of mechanism on the underside that possibly retracts into the helmet to allow donning and doffing of the thing. I know in the Air Force, we had some gear that had a neck dam that effectively sealed your head off from the surrounding environment. I would hazard to say that it is something akin to that, though I think by the 41st millennium they would have something a little more high speed than rubber. But the principle might likely be the same.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Sorry about that. I have a guy I play with who is always bitching he is going to make "truescale" marines because he says they aren't tall enough. Which I think is bullshit. He is determined to have me believe they are all nine feet tall though.

The seal is probably mechanical clamps that trip when the helmet is seated on the neck piece. I mean, its not like they don't have the technology to do something like that.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Carapace I always figured it was just guided by this.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Iron Angel said:


> But won't it pop off when you look right again?
> 
> This is why I like being a robot. I don't have to worry about bullshit like "breathing" and "depressurized vacuum".


It is nice to be a Necron and not worry about that stuff. I even had the idea of a Tomb World that became flooded during the Great Sleep. Maybe glaciers melted or whatever. But the entrance is now under a tropical swamp, probably pretty camouflaged and protected from intruders. Necrons don't even rust being made of Living Metal. But I would not suggest firing Tesla weapons inside the Tomb Complex. And Necron bodies are bigger; they built them to be physically impossing to most other races.



Gret79 said:


> Space Marines can survive in a vacuum anyway?
> 
> Who needs helmets when you've got mucranoids?
> 
> They could probably just seal the helmet with sticky backed plastic and they'd be fine...


I have wondered how mucranoids react fast enough for explosive decompression. It says they are like sweat glands and the mucous can seal the body but how quickly? And once the air you've managed to seal within is low enough you go into that awesome auto-hibernation stasis.



Serpion5 said:


> Automated locking and sealing mechanisms that activate when the armour pieces are brought into proximity.
> 
> Science Fiction armour 101.


That is the typical sci-fi function. But few environmental suits have the back-up systems in case you accidentally cut a hole in your suit while fighting evil aliens outside your ship.



scscofield said:


> http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Carapace I always figured it was just guided by this.


There probably is some link-up to the Black Carapace. But a proximity seal is likely an integral part too. On the subject of the Black Carapace, does anybody know if Sisters of Battle or Inquisitor power armor seals against environmental hazards?


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Archon Dan said:


> I have wondered how mucranoids react fast enough for explosive decompression. It says they are like sweat glands and the mucous can seal the body but how quickly? And once the air you've managed to seal within is low enough you go into that awesome auto-hibernation stasis.
> quote]
> 
> Just out of interest - does anyone know if a space marine has ever died to explosive decompression?
> ...


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Archon Dan said:


> There probably is some link-up to the Black Carapace. But a proximity seal is likely an integral part too. On the subject of the Black Carapace, does anybody know if Sisters of Battle or Inquisitor power armor seals against environmental hazards?


The Sisters probably do. I know all their models have breather masks one them (that's that tubed section that goes around the neck and stops in front of the collar), so I would assume so at least. It's hard to purge heretics in space or a hazardous world without it after all.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

The Space Marines have a third lung that aids them in such situations (it aids them to prevent from drowning etc, apparently). In one of the Night Lords books (Lord of the Night?), one of them is able to hold is breath in excess of 5 minutes after his armours' integrity was breached during a presumed explosive de-pressurisation.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Gret79 said:


> Archon Dan said:
> 
> 
> > I have wondered how mucranoids react fast enough for explosive decompression. It says they are like sweat glands and the mucous can seal the body but how quickly? And once the air you've managed to seal within is low enough you go into that awesome auto-hibernation stasis.
> ...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

In Fear No Evil, it states that Guilliman was able to survive an explosive DP (Editor: Really now, this is a family forum), due to his Primarch constitution, but also due to the atmospheric envelope of a ship the size of multiple Everest's.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

gen.ahab said:


> Gret79 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, that is mostly due to the fact that no one gives a fuck about them and their gear is usually pretty mediocre compared to the power armored marines.
> ...


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

I took another look at the exploded view of the MkVI armour on page 115 of Rogue Trader, it clearly shows an 'electronic sealant strip' at the top of the neckdam which presumably interfaces with the bottom of the helmet. What it doesn't show is how the helmet seals off the Marines jaw so I am going to hypothesise that there is a seal on the helmets underside that is stretched out of the way whilst putting the helmet on and springs back into place one the helmet is secure and it is this that then connects up to the electronic sealant strip. 

Its probably a bit too fiddly to bother with on the models, and no-one has really given it much thought in the past so it doesn't appear in any artwork...it will on mine though.

Job done 

*Edit*: Just had a thought whilst out for a walk with the wife. If the front underside and rear of the helmet were hinged the panels could open to allow the helmet to be donned then swung back into place locking onto the sealing ring. Cool...I like this idea better. :good:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

spending quality time with the dishwasher - check
romantic walk - check
preparing for a love in - check
about to get some p- oooh space marines.

cypher = legend


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

:laugh: my long suffering wife knows exactly what I am alike, and yet she still loves me, even after 20 years of marriage...I wouldn't be without her. :biggrin:


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