# Another Space Marine question



## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

Sorry to bother you all, but I just got wondering. Why are there no female space marines?
Aside from GW desperate attempt to keep as far away from space marine porn as possible, is there any other fluff reason why women are not able to be turned into space marines, or why none of them are?

Sexism? I sort of doubt that, I was just wondering whether they were not compatible with the implants or something or if there is no real reason with proof.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

1) This question is asked A LOT so you can look up other, much longer threads, for more details.
2) GW has stated that the progenoid glands are incompatable with female genetics. This is the primary reason why there are no (and can never be) female space marines. Why GW chose to do this is unknown to me and largely irrelevant.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

who cares
there are sisters of battle if you absolutely need to read about or play with power armoured females


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

MontytheMighty said:


> who cares
> there are sisters of battle if you absolutely need to read about or play with power armoured females


That really is not the point mate. I don't want to play with power armoured females, I just want to know why there are no female space marines. 
Sure it doesn't "matter" but technically nothing any human does matters so thanks for being so helpful.


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## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

Aren't Spsce Marines genetically engineered from the Emperor himself? That would settle it.


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

MEQinc said:


> 1) This question is asked A LOT so you can look up other, much longer threads, for more details.
> 2) GW has stated that the progenoid glands are incompatable with female genetics. This is the primary reason why there are no (and can never be) female space marines. Why GW chose to do this is unknown to me and largely irrelevant.


Well thanks for the information, I am sorry to have obviously bothered so many people, if there is a way to remove threads i will find it.


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

The key to it all is the gene-seed. It's keyed to male hormones not female ones. No-one is going to bother to check to see if they can create female marines as that would intail working on something that the Emperor himself had and not very many will take that risk.


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## the_man_with_plan (May 3, 2011)

High_Seraph said:


> The key to it all is the gene-seed. It's keyed to male hormones not female ones. No-one is going to bother to check to see if they can create female marines as that would intail working on something that the Emperor himself had and not very many will take that risk.


pretty much just this.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

This question always comes up, again and again. Can we get it added to the Background FAQ? 

@op a quick search would have revealed many, many threads already on this topic. 

Suffice to say all the implants etc are keyed to male genetics. So it's physically impossible for a female to become an sm. Is it possible that someone very good at genetics (some of the mechanciucs, fabius bile) could create female space marines? Quite probably. 

The question would be why though. Creating female space marines would serve no purpose. The implants couldn't be passed on to their off-spring (if they could even reproduce) and there aren't so few male recruits that the Chapter's are lacking for numbers. Given the amount of testosterone and growth hormones etc they'd be given they wouldn't even look that different to male space marines.


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## Bionic-Weasel (Jul 10, 2010)

The official reason GW gives is that SPESS MAHREEN gene-seed is super-special and only works on men. The reason for that is because men make up not only the largest demographic by far for Warhammer 40,000 but wargaming in general. Hence if they're gonna get big sales in their flagship army, said SPESS MAHREENS, they need them to be flawlessly masculine in every regard. GW simply can't dare taint the flawless masculinity of the SPESS MAHREENS by allowing wimmins in their number. The only place human females have in Imperial 

The other reason is, as Rems pointed out, the only other purpose that many women are allowed to serve in gaming is sex appeal. While that's not exactly what he said many proponents of female astartes do indeed only want them there for their yuri fix. I imagine GW thought of this exact thing before deciding against female marines.

Suffice to say I think this is another aspect of the fluff that GW has mishandled and I mostly ignore it. Aside from what Rems mentioned on brilliant geneticists, this is a setting where genetic mutation results in blade-like bones growing off your elbows and spontaneous combustion that actually doesn't really cause any burns. The idea that gene-seed cannot possibly mutate to allow female recruits is absurd. I find it perplexing that GW has put its foot down on an aspect of the fluff so minor that they generally ignore it in favor of letting the fans come up with their own thing.

Did you know? It's actually canon that there is only one Lady General in the *ENTIRE MILKY WAY GALAXY*?



Rems said:


> The question would be why though. Creating female space marines would serve no purpose. The implants couldn't be passed on to their off-spring (if they could even reproduce) and there aren't so few male recruits that the Chapter's are lacking for numbers.


I disagree, I think in the case of chapters such as the Flesh Tearers or the newly heavily depleted Blood Ravens that having access to the other 50% of the population would be a boon for recruiting.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Rems said:


> mechanciucs, fabius bile) could create female space marines? Quite probably.
> 
> The question would be why though. Creating female space marines would serve no purpose. The implants couldn't be passed on to their off-spring (if they could even reproduce) and there aren't so few male recruits that the Chapter's are lacking for numbers. Given the amount of testosterone and growth hormones etc they'd be given they wouldn't even look that different to male space marines.


Also the recruits need to be insanely tough before chapters even look at them and 99% of the time a female cannot come close to a man physically.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

There's about 10 threads about this already, do a search.


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## Bionic-Weasel (Jul 10, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Also the recruits need to be insanely tough before chapters even look at them and 99% of the time a female cannot come close to a man physically.


Rethink that


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Bionic-Weasel said:


> Rethink that


I think I should.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

cegorach said:


> That really is not the point mate. I don't want to play with power armoured females


you don't? don't kid yourself homeboy
who doesn't want to play with a few power armoured vixens



Malus Darkblade said:


> I think I should.


that would be that 1 %


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## Lubacca (Sep 4, 2011)

To the OP, don't feel bad I'm still learning alot of this stuff and was having this thought today actually. If you hadn't posted this thread I may have. Not all of the users here are as....impatient as others. Be cool and keep coming back


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## Bionic-Weasel (Jul 10, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> I think I should.


Not even including bodybuilders, 1% is a gross exaggeration. That wasn't my point though, the Astartes aren't selecting recruits based on muscle mass.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Hence why I mentioned they had to be tough as well which also includes a hardened mentality which a man raised on a feral world/hive has more often than a woman.


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## Bionic-Weasel (Jul 10, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Hence why I mentioned they had to be tough as well which also includes a hardened mentality which a man raised on a feral world/hive has more often than a woman.


They don't have women on feral/hive worlds? Or in your interpretation of fluff all women in the Imperium are treated as breeding stock? Help me out here, I'm trying to find an interpretation of what you said that isn't stupid.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Bionic-Weasel said:


> They don't have women on feral/hive worlds? Or in your interpretation of fluff all women in the Imperium are treated as breeding stock? Help me out here, I'm trying to find an interpretation of what you said that isn't stupid.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia

GL dude.


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Crutch or excuse?

I have friends with Dyslexia - it never stopped them from doing stuff - including getting published.

There are NO female marines because GW has decreed it thus.
The implants are keyed to the Y chromo.
Females don't generally have it, being XX.

It used to be that it was keyed to specific hormones (Testosterone), but someone at GW forgot that both males AND females produce both sex related hormones (yes, males produce Oestrogen, too) so they had to back-step a little.

That and oversized boobcup armour on SM looks silly.
Even sillier than it looks on SoB.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Bionic-Weasel said:


> I disagree, I think in the case of chapters such as the Flesh Tearers or the newly heavily depleted Blood Ravens that having access to the other 50% of the population would be a boon for recruiting.


But the issue is not a lack of recruits, it's gene-seed deterioration (for the flesh tearers at least). Suddenly having more recruits wouldn't make a difference. They don't even need a higher number of potential recruits seeing how they take so few to begin with and the process is slow. They won't run out of men so why recruit women? 

Also it's probably a thematic issue to some degree from a design standpoint. It's harder to get across notions of warrior brotherhoods, monastic orders etc when you have women involved.


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## Bionic-Weasel (Jul 10, 2010)

Rems said:


> But the issue is not a lack of recruits, it's gene-seed deterioration (for the flesh tearers at least). Suddenly having more recruits wouldn't make a difference. They don't even need a higher number of potential recruits seeing how they take so few to begin with and the process is slow. They won't run out of men so why recruit women?


The Flesh Tearers are just an example, a poor one I admit. My point though was that access to the other gender would be seen as highly beneficial to depleted chapters, hence I don't think there would be any question as to whether or not accepting female recruits serves a purpose. Accepting recruits in general serves a purpose, recruiting women simply makes the field of potential space marines that much larger.



Rems said:


> Also it's probably a thematic issue to some degree from a design standpoint. It's harder to get across notions of warrior brotherhoods, monastic orders etc when you have women involved.


Noooot the greatest defense if that's what GW is arguing, since a lot of monastic orders were such because of rampant sexism.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Yea but my point was that the field of recruits doesn't need to be any larger. There are more than enough recruits available, and there always will be, manpower is not something the Imperium lacks. Depleted chapters are depleted not because of a lack of recruits but because it's a long, hazardous process to create Astartes. They could easily just take more aspirants at a time but would likely choose not to unless it's really necessary. The chapters are millennia old, tradition bound institutions. Look at the Crimson Fists, they where near obliterated and still refuse to rush the process.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Rems said:


> This question always comes up, again and again. Can we get it added to the Background FAQ?


:goodpost:

Im on it!


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Bionic-Weasel said:


> Not even including bodybuilders, 1% is a gross exaggeration. That wasn't my point though, the Astartes aren't selecting recruits based on muscle mass.


Space Marines are recruited based on physical ability. While it is true that on average men and women are roughly equal in physical ability Space Marines don't recruit average individuals. At the highest end of the physical spectrum men are almost always better than women. Look at the olympics, men's records and averages are highier than women's pretty much across the board. This is not to say that women are always weaker than men (as that'd be dumb). The physical cut-off for the Astartes is higher than the vast majority of men can achieve and I would not be surprised in the slighest if it is too high for all but a very select few women.



Bionic-Weasel said:


> My point though was that access to the other gender would be seen as highly beneficial to depleted chapters, hence I don't think there would be any question as to whether or not accepting female recruits serves a purpose. Accepting recruits in general serves a purpose, recruiting women simply makes the field of potential space marines that much larger.


Making the field of potential recruits larger doesn't serve a purpose though. All it does is ensure that more people die to make your space marines. Only the best of the best can survive the trials, if you broaden your definition of best (the first time) to allow for women (and also more men) than you just increase the number of individuals you have to screen. And if you broaden your definition of best (the second time) to allow for women (and again more men) you are weakening your Chapter. Marines are stringent because they need the best of the best, a weak marine (for whatever reason) weakens his entire Chapter. This is why Chapters struggle to come back from the brink, because they understand that they cannot simply speed the process or accept more recruits without suffering a similar fate in the near future.

But finally, even if you decide that a woman can compete with men at peak physical ability (and doubtless in this wide galaxy there are some that can) you would have to fundamentally alter the gene-seed, which is heresy and very risky, in order to accept perhaps a half-dozen new individuals into your ranks. Is that really worth a little gender equality?


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