# why nids or necrons???



## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

Im posting this thread because im fed up of people always saying nids and necrons are the only two armys who have a chance at "winning" which might i add no really can win. So i wanted to hear from other people who agree with me so say your army and then say how they could win.

my one: imperium
the emp gets resurected and the imperium moves on to a new ae of prosperity.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

warsmith7752 said:


> my one: imperium
> the emp gets resurected and the imperium moves on to a new ae of prosperity.


ROFL:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Ok ok, i got a good one too... An American, and Australian, and an Irishman walk into a bar......


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

warsmith7752 said:


> Im posting this thread because im fed up of people always saying nids and necrons are the only two armys who have a chance at "winning" which might i add no really can win. So i wanted to hear from other people who agree with me so say your army and then say how they could win.
> 
> my one: imperium
> the emp gets resurected and the imperium moves on to a new ae of prosperity.


A new age of prosperity.

In a setting that prides itself on its grim, dark, hopeless atmosphere. No, it won't happen. Not for marketing reasons, either. It's probably sheer principle. The three sides with the most chance of winning are the necron with their superior technology, the tyranids with their superior numbers and biology, and chaos, who already won and the rest of the galaxy simply refuses to aknowledge it. Maybe the orks have got a shot, too, but the eldar, dark eldar, Imperium, and Tau have no chance of winning.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

KingOfCheese said:


> ROFL:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
> 
> Ok ok, i got a good one too... An American, and Australian, and an Irishman walk into a bar......



Couldn`t you think of a more tactful way to say 


DREAM ON YOU IDEALISTIC HIPPIE!

I mean, that was just plain rude.


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## Zenith_of_Mind (Mar 12, 2010)

I too don't care which side will "win" (like I said before, I don't think anyone will "win"), but there is a simple reason why everyone thinks that either Tyranids or Necrons will win, and reason is fanboyism. Yes, fanboyism. 
From all the warhammer players and fans I have met (this refers mostly to warhammer video games, boks etc. because I don't do tabletop), all the 12-15 year old guys play either Necrons or Tyranids (they are the two easiest races to play with in Dawn of War, for example). They are also the the "coolest" races because well...giant bugs and ancient undead skeletons are always well received by players (I remember my short time of playing WoW where 80% were Undead, for example). 

Most people don't want to bother with the finer workings of the Imperium war machine, madness and history of Chaos, or awesomeness of Orks. They just wanna be "cool" and use the most generic armies and win so they can brag about it. There it is, simple.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

The most generic army is space marine and their variants. In fact, I hardly ever see a Nec or Nid player at a tourney. Usually I`m one of two or three out of about forty. What the hell is wrong with everyone out there?

TWELVE FOOT BUGS AND UBER DEATH BOTS! Helloooo?


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

Honestly in this universe nigh on anything could happen.

The Necrons and Tyranids could win, but then again so could the Tau, the Imperium, in fact the only ones who probably have no chance of winning are the Eldar.

How are we to know a new species of Xenos appears and becomes Allied to the Imperium, or the Interex become warlike and take control.

How are we to know the Imperium or Eldar gets incredible technology and creates Time Travel, destroying the Necrons before their created or preventing the fall of the Eldar?

Honestly there's billions of possibilities, no one can truthfully say "Only the Tyranids or Necrons can win"


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

The kroot win because they steal your genes.

How are you going to live without your genes, huh?!


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Catpain Rich said:


> The kroot win because they steal your genes.
> 
> How are you going to live without your genes, huh?!


easy, just throw on a pair of slacks. Honestly! the nerve of some people who just cant live without their jeans...*sigh*:no:


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## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

None of you are understanding what i meant exept Captain rich. I dont care wether its possible or not, or in tournys or anything. Yes the emporor wont get resurected any time soon but its not imposible to do that he could be put in a dreadnought or something. Captain rich thank you for your post because its the kind of thing im looking for. Zenith of mind your point isnt that valid im afraid i am 13 and i dont like tyranids at all and most of the people i play with dont like tyranids much either. Just remember 1 space marine 2 orks who wins? Numbers arent everything


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

warsmith7752 said:


> None of you are understanding what i meant exept Captain rich. I dont care wether its possible or not, or in tournys or anything. Yes the emporor wont get resurected any time soon but its not imposible to do that he could be put in a dreadnought or something. Captain rich thank you for your post because its the kind of thing im looking for. Zenith of mind your point isnt that valid im afraid i am 13 and i dont like tyranids at all and most of the people i play with dont like tyranids much either. Just remember 1 space marine 2 orks who wins? Numbers arent everything


No problem :wink: Also, numbers with nids are everything cus, let's be serious now, there are shitloads of them.



Commissar Ploss said:


> easy, just throw on a pair of slacks. Honestly! the nerve of some people who just cant live without their jeans...*sigh*:no:


How about i get My Bum to eat your legs? Not so good making homophonic puns now is it :laugh:


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Catpain Rich said:


> How about i get My Bum to eat your legs? Not so good making homophonic puns now is it :laugh:


HA! your Bum would be thwarted by the superior weave of my new twill pants! plus they give me a 1+ invulnerable save.


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

Commissar Ploss said:


> HA! your Bum would be thwarted by the superior weave of my new twill pants! plus they give me a 1+ invulnerable save.


To up the nerdiness to a whole other level - My Bum's borrowed an incinerator unlucky :grin:. Really can't wait for GKs to come out.

PS: Back on topic, the Empire would win because the two universes are entirely crossed over. Besides, the Empire have (proper) magic.


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## popeyethesailor (Jun 28, 2010)

Zenith_of_Mind said:


> I too don't care which side will "win" (like I said before, I don't think anyone will "win"), but there is a simple reason why everyone thinks that either Tyranids or Necrons will win, and reason is fanboyism. Yes, fanboyism.
> From all the warhammer players and fans I have met (this refers mostly to warhammer video games, boks etc. because I don't do tabletop), all the 12-15 year old guys play either Necrons or Tyranids (they are the two easiest races to play with in Dawn of War, for example). They are also the the "coolest" races because well...giant bugs and ancient undead skeletons are always well received by players (I remember my short time of playing WoW where 80% were Undead, for example).
> 
> Most people don't want to bother with the finer workings of the Imperium war machine, madness and history of Chaos, or awesomeness of Orks. They just wanna be "cool" and use the most generic armies and win so they can brag about it. There it is, simple.


I dissagree completely eventhough i dispise necron and tyranid because they are boring the reason people think they are the most likely to conqueor the universe is because they actually have the means of witch to do it. Necrons were once almost the rulers of the entire galaxy and they are way more advanced technologically then any other race. For the tyranids they are designed to conqueor the galaxy by being super adaptive evolutionally and always growing with every conquest.

All this is beside the point anyways because Orks would clearly win. They are made of fightin' and winnin', can any other race claim to be made of winnin'? NO


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## 13illfred (Jun 23, 2010)

From my basic grasp of 40k fluff it is my understanding that the souls of the ?faithful? go to the emperor's presence in the warp. 
Therefore I would like to think that when the golden throne fails the emperor becomes some kind of chaos god that leads the imperium to some form of victory


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

One small victory for mankind, one giant slugfest for CHAOS!!!
Insolent fools! Chaos cannot be denied. By serving the emperor you serve us. We cannot lose for we have already won. Muhahahahahahahaa!!


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## nocturnalK (Jun 15, 2010)

there are way to many possabilitys, heck you cant be even sure that all of mankind has been reunited yet.

The Imperiums biggest problem is its lack of tech advancement, all it would take is for some drasic occurance or influance to cahneg the mindset of improtant people and they will start inventing again. or they Find an active STC machine that actual produces something better then torch batteries.

If the imperuim can get back on the tech advancement they have the abilty to maunufacture new items by the millions.
With the right tech the necrons just dont have the numbers, they are a finate race.
the trynaids just need to stopped, with out any means to replace there loses from consistant advancement then they will lose ground very quickly.

It all comes down to a mind set change for the imperium or the luck of finding the ability to reproduce its rarer items of tech.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH said:


> One small victory for mankind, one giant slugfest for CHAOS!!!
> Insolent fools! Chaos cannot be denied. By serving the emperor you serve us. We cannot lose for we have already won. Muhahahahahahahaa!!


The Cadian Gate, bitch. The Cadian Gate. How many times has your misguided and foolish Warmaster fled back to the Eye of Terror now you tainted cur! :biggrin:

Or Terra! Eight Legions, the Legio Mortis and B(M)illions of Imperial Army traitors against the Blood Angels (After their decimation on Signus Prime.... and they are tainted by Matt Ward for the lols) the White Scars... ugh... who are cool, and Imperial Fists. And yet you fail still...:biggrin:

Back towards the point (as ridiuclous as it is) of the thread. Then why does everyone automatically discard the Imperium? Admittedly they are but the Western Roman Empire during the Dark Ages: Fending off constant Gothic/Vandel/Hun invasions, and slowly succumbing, but still, there is hope in Ultramar *cough* Byzantium :grin:.

I am sure the Biologis wing of the Adeptus Mechanicus in concurence with the Ordo Xenos will capitalise upon the Tyranids greatest weakeness, and there is the vain hope in either the Rhana Dandra and Ynnead in destroying Slaanesh, or a small stimuli occuring simultaneously in every Orks head, as they realise their greatest foe has come anew - The Necrons.


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## 13illfred (Jun 23, 2010)

nocturnalK said:


> the necrons just dont have the numbers, they are a finate race.
> the trynaids just need to stopped, with out any means to replace there loses from consistant advancement then they will lose ground very quickly.
> .


I thought that the tyranids that have been encountered so far are only the vanguard for a much larger force that is drawn towards the Astronomican. I also thought that while the necrons are few in numbers at the moment, there are still a whole bunch of them sleeping....


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Technically, the Necrons can't win... Pretty much once they destroy a portion of sentiant life, they'll just go back into suspended animation again to wait for it all to build up once more. They are not all out conquerers or destroyers so they can never completely take over.

Tyranids too... if you can manage to destroy a hive fleet, they're stuffed as, as poitned out, they've no planets to fall back to or reinforcements to call upon. They're not undefeatable... 


Pretty much the entire universe is in a no-win situation.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Actually the Necs as they stand cant hope to win. The Nids currently have been beaten back time and again. It Takes 1 SM Chapter to beat Behemoth, 1 Craftworld to beat the worst of Kraken, and 1 Ork Empire to stalemate Leviathon. So why are the Nids so awsome? Sorry but we have couple thousand chapters left and 10 or so craft worlds and hundreds of Ork Empires, I think were good. 

No in the end Chaos wins or stays in the fight. I dont know where the Nid/Nec rule the universe comes from. 70% of the forum agree or concede Chaos is the most likely to win. Also why are Nids and Necs considered by some to be popular? CSM and Daemons are the most popular armies around my area, followed by SM, IG, and Orcs. I rarley see anyoneplay Necs, almost not at all.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Necs, as far as I know from my local area, are even less popular then DE's. Even GK's, which are meant to be less popular then Necs and DE's have more players in my local area then DE and Necs combined.

Chaos I don't think will win either... when they've had 13 crusades all beaten back by only a couple of loyal legions and IG's, they're not going to break through... If they were a significant threat, you'd have Eldar, Tau, Marines and IG combine forces against them despite their differences.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

The necrons have alreayd 'lost'... thats why they retreated to their cript worlds. The problem is that they get beaten back but not destroyed, so they never actually lose anything. So they might fail eternally, but they'll still be there to try again.

The nids have NOT ever been beaten back, their first few splinter fleets didnt manage to break the imperium... but that was just the first tiny threads of the Tyranid fleet. One of the codexes (no idea which any more) has a 'classified' report from the imperium that to beat the esitmated strength of the tyranid main fleet imperial recruitment will have to reach 1000% of the human race. So for every man woman and child in the imperium there would need to be 10 soldiers in order to have enough strength to fight the nids to a rough standstill... seems unlikely.


Chaos has a chance because it lives off other races and is parasitical by nature... so as long as a race survives that produces chaos then chaos will be there. NWe dont really know if nids and necrons can fall to chaos but it would be fun to find out...

The imperium might be strong but its can potenitally fall (eg take out the emperor and suddenly the imperium crashes down), which means that eventually it should fail, but then all these discussions are pretty irrelevant since we all know that GW will never destroy the imperium or have any 1 race 'winning' as that would be a suicidal buisness plan...


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Personaly Im comfortable with the idea that the HUMAN race will not die out, you know, since I'm, welll, Human.....


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## Smokes (Nov 27, 2009)

murdock129 said:


> Honestly in this universe nigh on anything could happen.
> 
> The Necrons and Tyranids could win, but then again so could the Tau, the Imperium, in fact the only ones who probably have no chance of winning are the Eldar.
> 
> ...


The Inquisition has time travel. We just don't want you to know about it.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

GrizBe said:


> Technically, the Necrons can't win... Pretty much once they destroy a portion of sentiant life, they'll just go back into suspended animation again to wait for it all to build up once more. They are not all out conquerers or destroyers so they can never completely take over.
> 
> Tyranids too... if you can manage to destroy a hive fleet, they're stuffed as, as poitned out, they've no planets to fall back to or reinforcements to call upon. They're not undefeatable...
> 
> ...


Wrong on both counts.

Necrons are still the most tech advanced race ever, they can undo solar systems in a matter of hours or days and they have the c`tan on their side. This is now, when the vast majority are still sleeping. What happens when the rest wake up?

Destroy a Hive Fleet... yeah, `cos that`s real easy, isn`t it? Only takes the sacrifice of a few battlegroups, maybe a capital ship, a regiment or a chapter maybe, and exterminatus on a few planets. Piece of cake right? 
And then a new Hive Fleet crops up, fresh as a daisy while you`re still counting your losses.


It will all come down to nids or necs, chaos is strong but ultimately cannot really corrupt or control either race, and nobody else has the strength or cohesion to stand against them.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Actually, your wrong... Necrons aren't that technologically advanced anymore... while they've been sleeping they haven't improved or evolved their technology, so its still at a stalemate level where it will never get better. Necrons don't have the creativeity to improve.

Plus.. you can't read can you? As pointed out, Necrons can't survive without life in the universe.. its why thy went to sleep in the first place as there wasn't enough life left to sustain themselves. If the world ever got to that point again, they'd just all go back to sleep once more. Hence, they can't win.


And again... as pointed out... It's only ever taken 1 chapter in the past to stop a hive fleet.... theres 1000 chapters, plus Eldar, Tau, IG... theres more then enough to stop a hive fleet when it occurs. Its just a matter of time and numbers. Nid's aren't undefeatable.


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## Settra (Jun 5, 2010)

well no, the nec's didnt go sleep because their wasent enough life, they went sleep because the enslaver plauge broke out :scare: so they had to retreat, like every other race i might add 

and necrons are still the most advance race, they are so far over everyones heads, it says so in half a dozen books, also they dont advance anymore because they have reached the pinacle of technolgy, their weapons are at the peak of which teh require, they dont need to advance.

also the tomb worlds havent "woken" yet, everything the imperium or otherwise have seen has been scout forces (except mabye the eldar in the past) we have no idea what they have in those tombs.:victory:

And if life ever did die out, then they woudl move on to another galaxy  i personaly consider exterminating a galaxy then moving on to the next a "win" k:

in the case of nids, they can be haulted, but never destroyed, theirs just too many of them. k: 

chaos can be deafted but it would take soooooooooooooooooooooooo long, orks, well i wouldnt be surprised if they just stuck around, eldar and tau have no chance :cray: 

the imperium cannot survive in its current state, if something were to change then they would have a chance, but if something dosent change then slowly but surly they will be worn down.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

GrizBe said:


> Actually, your wrong... Necrons aren't that technologically advanced anymore... while they've been sleeping they haven't improved or evolved their technology, so its still at a stalemate level where it will never get better. Necrons don't have the creativeity to improve.


Necrons are as advanced now as they were 60 mya. And they still beat the shit out of anyone tech wise.



GrizBe said:


> Plus.. you can't read can you? As pointed out, Necrons can't survive without life in the universe.. its why thy went to sleep in the first place as there wasn't enough life left to sustain themselves. If the world ever got to that point again, they'd just all go back to sleep once more. Hence, they can't win.


Their plan is to enslave humanity, not annihilate it. Can _you_ read? And if they have all the time in the universe, then their victory is essentially assured.




GrizBe said:


> And again... as pointed out... It's only ever taken 1 chapter in the past to stop a hive fleet.... theres 1000 chapters, plus Eldar, Tau, IG... theres more then enough to stop a hive fleet when it occurs. Its just a matter of time and numbers. Nid's aren't undefeatable.


_ONE_ chapter?! Bullshit! The ultramarines may have enjoyed the most success, but they are not the only ones fighting, not by a frigging looong shot. Mortifactors, Blood Angels, Lamenters, Imperial fists, the list goes on. The Emperor`s Scythes chapter was all but wiped out, not to mention several craftworlds left dead or dying (one of them by a single tyranid, I add) and the tau have lost several worlds as well. And even these forces did not fight alone, the marines had help from several regiments of Imperial Guard, as did the tau in a loose alliance. 
Plus, the amount of casualties can easily be afforded by the tyranids, not so much the other sides. Add to that the vast resources needed to maintain an Imperial fleet, the ease with which the tyranids can outclass and outnumber their foes, and the tremendous sacrifices that have been required in the past.

You are vastly underestimating these foes.



Settra said:


> well no, the nec's didnt go sleep because their wasent enough life, they went sleep because the enslaver plauge broke out :scare: so they had to retreat, like every other race i might add
> 
> and necrons are still the most advance race, they are so far over everyones heads, it says so in half a dozen books, also they dont advance anymore because they have reached the pinacle of technolgy, their weapons are at the peak of which teh require, they dont need to advance.
> 
> ...


This, I mostly agree with.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

I think Orks for a few reasons. They constantly multiply from spores (at first I didn't like the idea, but it's grown on me ;-) ) so can never be truly irradicated unless each world they have been on is purged I wouldn't have thought (fire bombed/virus bombed). 

They don't have the worries of the Imperium and Eldar that hold them back (their numbers, not so much for the Imperium, but the Imperium's paranoia and fear of everything different holds them back), Chaos will always be around, but they've proven themselves to be like supervillains, they do something impressive and make the universe take note, then get whomped back to the place they came from.

Necrons don't seem to want to conquer everywhere, and tyranids, well, they're just tyranids against the universe, and everyone will take the fight to them sooner or later.

Orks have got it made 

Summed up nicely in this :

'The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.'

Orks ftw!


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## Settra (Jun 5, 2010)

i must admit, well said Grins1878 :grin: of course abit of perticide here and some their and we are sorted :laugh: sorry couldt resist


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Grins1878 said:


> I think Orks for a few reasons. They constantly multiply from spores (at first I didn't like the idea, but it's grown on me ;-) ) so can never be truly irradicated unless each world they have been on is purged I wouldn't have thought (fire bombed/virus bombed).
> 
> They don't have the worries of the Imperium and Eldar that hold them back (their numbers, not so much for the Imperium, but the Imperium's paranoia and fear of everything different holds them back), Chaos will always be around, but they've proven themselves to be like supervillains, they do something impressive and make the universe take note, then get whomped back to the place they came from.
> 
> ...


Tyranids can absorb ork spores, and necrons can de-atomise them. Orks are great and all, but fluffwise, they ultimately can`t win out against either of these races in the long run.


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## BrainFreeze (Oct 9, 2008)

I still have to go with the necrons..

Yes they went to sleep because of the plague but not because it affected them but because it killed their food. They were the only force left "alive" in any significant number.

If they go into a position that they have to go back into stasis it will be because most of the galaxy is dead again and there is no food of any significant number. In this case wouldn't they have won anyway?

Going to sleep dosent show you have lost, just shows that they closed the fridge to let all that delicious mold grow some more before they return to eat it again.


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## 13illfred (Jun 23, 2010)

don't tyranids get stronger they more they eat as well with the whole gene stealing thing?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

13illfred said:


> don't tyranids get stronger they more they eat as well with the whole gene stealing thing?


They absorb genetic codes from the life forms they consume, then evolve to better suit their prey`s strengths and weaknesses. 

On the whole, it has to be nids or necs. It will all come down to who wants it more in the end.

Chomp chomp!

Zap zap!

And every poor sod in between is just screwed, plain and simple.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Settra said:


> well no, the nec's didnt go sleep because their wasent enough life, they went sleep because the enslaver plauge broke out :scare: so they had to retreat, like every other race i might add


Nope, the Necrons and the C'tan went into stasis because their food source was being consumed (well mainly the C'tan's but the Necrons had to go as well...)- it says in the Necron Codex that they didn't fear the Enslaver Plague and that it couldn't harm them but that it was culling their prey.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

I'd still go with the green skins. They don't have a care in the world and fight for fun (possibly why they haven't done anything major). Robots and hive minds don't have a patch on a race that would invade a planet because they'd put up a good scrap.

I'd bet my teeth on it ;-)


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> Nope, the Necrons and the C'tan went into stasis because their food source was being consumed (well mainly the C'tan's but the Necrons had to go as well...)- it says in the Necron Codex that they didn't fear the Enslaver Plague and that it couldn't harm them but that it was culling their prey.


Hence my point of the Necrons can never win as once too much of the galaxy goes up, they'll all go back into status.


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## GWLlosa (Sep 27, 2009)

Smokes said:


> The Inquisition has time travel. We just don't want you to know about it.


Its a bad sign when the Inquisition can travel back in time to correct history, and the current 40k setting therefore represents their best job to date. The implication is that of all the possible futures, this one somehow represents the "Best Possible" from the Inquisitions' point of view.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Grins1878 said:


> I'd still go with the green skins. They don't have a care in the world and fight for fun (possibly why they haven't done anything major). Robots and hive minds don't have a patch on a race that would invade a planet because they'd put up a good scrap.
> 
> I'd bet my teeth on it ;-)


But the orks just cannot beat the nids- nids make planetfall, send spores into teh atmosphere to start altering the planet ready for digestion... and the orks cannot stop them.


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## MadMaxx (Jun 17, 2010)

Tyranids, to me, represent the ultimary "scary" thing there is (even outside of 40K). It is the most representative of how sentient biological live would propogate, rather than the everyone-kinda-looks-human-bipedal design that sci-fi gives us. In the 40K universe, the nids represent the singular focus and drive towards a goal, rather than the infighting or plotting that all the other races seem to do. 

Nids would consume, adapt and overcome anything. The wall is the necrons, but both sides would kinda shrug off the other, as neither offers (at the time) something they want. Chaos, while an interesting conept, is bound by their own stength - they exist as emotion and enter the physical via flesh (taken from others or materializes). With the destruction of the emotional sources and meatbags, their entrance begins to dwindle. Since the nids would be immune to chaos, yet view them as tasty genetics...possessed or not, meat is meat. It would be a battle they could not win in the physical realm and would have to fall back to the eye and stay there.

The nids are scary scary scary mofos.


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## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

Alright, I will go out on a limb here and say....

Eldar.

Simply put why the hell not, I am new to them but have faced Orks, Nids, Chaos, and Tau and only got beat by Orks because I underestimated how fast they move across the board in them trucks.... As I play around with me Eldar I find they can be more flexible then people give them credit for... but what the hell do I know, every one has there opinion and think it smells rosy... And what was up with that America, Australian, and Irishman bar joke/comment? You all know that we can go to the bar as much as we want as long as the English pays... :victory:


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Tim/Steve said:


> But the orks just cannot beat the nids- nids make planetfall, send spores into teh atmosphere to start altering the planet ready for digestion... and the orks cannot stop them.


If the Ultramarines can beat back the nids, Orks can, and would relish the challenge 

'and 1 Ork Empire to stalemate Leviathon' (cheers Warlock in Training). A stalemate is as good as a stop ;-)

x


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Don't forget that once the Eldar are all dead then Ynnead rises, kills slaanesh and frees all the Eldar souls? I am not sure what happens next, but an active Eldar god in the Warp has got to do something, maybe kick Nurgles arse and resue Isha (then its two gods) gather the fragments of Khaine together (three gods)....

As for the Tyranids and Necrons, what does the fluff say about their influence in the Warp? as if they have none then surely its an Emperor/Chaos/Eldar fight in the end?

Edit: I forgot Gork and Mork who would also join the party


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Grins1878 said:


> If the Ultramarines can beat back the nids, Orks can, and would relish the challenge
> 
> 'and 1 Ork Empire to stalemate Leviathon' (cheers Warlock in Training). A stalemate is as good as a stop ;-)
> 
> x


There is no stalemate. The nids will gain the upper hand.



Bubblematrix said:


> Don't forget that once the Eldar are all dead then Ynnead rises, kills slaanesh and frees all the Eldar souls? I am not sure what happens next, but an active Eldar god in the Warp has got to do something, maybe kick Nurgles arse and resue Isha (then its two gods) gather the fragments of Khaine together (three gods)....
> 
> As for the Tyranids and Necrons, what does the fluff say about their influence in the Warp? as if they have none then surely its an Emperor/Chaos/Eldar fight in the end?
> 
> Edit: I forgot Gork and Mork who would also join the party


Ynnead is a myth.

Necrons do not influence the warp. Other than to block it out with their advanced tech and pariahs. Tyranids achieve a similar anti psyker effect with the Hive Mind`s Shadow in the warp.

In short, warp reliance = Big Weakness.

imo it has to be nids or necs. I am repeating myself I know, but for all the fluff and ancient lore I`ve studied, I cannot fathom any realistic alternative. :dunno:


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Bubblematrix said:


> Don't forget that once the Eldar are all dead then Ynnead rises, kills slaanesh and frees all the Eldar souls? I am not sure what happens next, but an active Eldar god in the Warp has got to do something, maybe kick Nurgles arse and resue Isha (then its two gods) gather the fragments of Khaine together (three gods)....


Ynead may release Slaanesh's hold on the Eldar souls but he wouldn't be able to destroy the Prince of Chaos, there are only a handful of Gods who can conceivably beat Slaanesh and none of them will ever be of Eldar origin.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Nids/Necrons dont need to win the warp... they just need to kill all those races that create the warp, that way all those gods/daemons disappear.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> There is no stalemate. The nids will gain the upper hand.


I'm willing to wait out on this one, but I'd still back the greenskins anyday ;-)

I would like to see Eldar doing it tbh, I like their grace and style. I used to be mad on the Imperium, but the more I see of them the more dodgy they look. They've started looking like chaotic good style (which I guess they are, don't stray from their path or its curtains for you).

The more they pump out guys with a plethora of tubes poking out their skin and the religious zealot types the more I wonder if they aren't teetering on the brink of becoming something they once dispised. Not so much the marines, but the witch hunters and what not. Some shifty looking folk in that retinue ;-)


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Ynnead is a myth.


Ynead is no myth, the doomed seers have um seen(?) its existence



lexicanum said:


> It has yet to manifest itself, as it has yet to attain enough power to fulfill its purpose: to destroy Slaanesh and free the Eldar


Slaanesh was created by a fraction of the Eldar collective psyche, Ynead is a much greater amount and so should be stonger?

Anyway its far in the future and I doubt we will ever get clarification.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Bubblematrix said:


> Ynead is no myth, the doomed seers have um seen(?) its existence
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Slaanesh was created by the actions of untold billions of Eldar- Ynead is powered by the dying remanents of the race, he'll never be stronger.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Slaanesh was created by the actions of untold billions of Eldar- Ynead is powered by the dying remanents of the race, he'll never be stronger.


Untrue, Ynead is the culmination of all the Eldar to die since the fall, it is the spirit building up in the infinity circuits of every craftworld - I did however neglect to consider those already trapped by Slaanesh, so actually Ynead will be not nearly as powerful as it could have been.

It really depends on how much of the Eldar psyche contributed to Slaanesh's creation, how much stronger it has become (as it is now fed by more than just Eldar) and on the other side how much Ynead has had poured into it.

On another track - I always found it quite amusing that the only way the Eldar will ever be free is for them all to die, I usually quote this when my Eldar are being slaughtered :wink:


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

How they could win/lose

IMPERIUM:
Win: They find an STC for something useful, or change completely and start inventing new technologies again. If the Imperium gains some forward momentum they might be unstoppable.
Lose: Keep going as they are.

CHAOS:
Win: Keep going as they are, uninterrupted.
Lose: The Chaos forces become separated by belief and turn on each other, and the cancer of Chaos devours itself from within.

TAU:
Win: Expand outward and increase its list of allies, all the while developing new technologies and increasing in size until its military might becomes undeniable by the other sentient races.
Lose: Underestimate their foes and other races, not knowing when to have peace talks and when to shoot first and ask questions never.

NECRONS:
Win: Wake up and take over.
Lose: Let the other races figure out where they are sleeping and get ruined before they even react.

TYRANIDS:
Win: Push harder. Become better. Eat faster. Grow stronger.
Lose: Get stagnant or get held in one spot. Once they eat a planet its gone, and they HAVE to move to a new one. If they cant, they'll starve.

ORKS:
Win: Inhabit more planets, have bigger Waagh!s. Ork survival depends solely on their spores being spread to new planets.
Lose: Get killed off, as hard as that would be- Their threat lies in Necrons and Tyranids, both of which cleanse all organic matter from a planet before moving on. Necrons kill everything, down to the atomic level, and Tyranids basically digest the entire planet's surface.

Anyone I forgot? Honestly, the Tyranids and Necrons have the best shot- There are lots and lots and lots of Necrons. They're in every corner of the galaxy, and the horrifyingly powerful forces we've met so far are merely scouts. The true Necron war machine has yet to begin turning its gears. As for the Tyranids, they've already taken over other galaxies, probably with just as many and jsut as advanced inhabitants. What exactly makes us different from any other food?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Ynnead has been seen(?) by only a handful of seers on only a single craftworld. Nobody else fives it any credence.

To me, it`s just wishful thinking made even less likely by Baron Spikey`s post. The Eldar today could not spawn a stronger god than they did 10k years ago.

But keep dreaming, if it gives you false hope...


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Ynnead has been seen(?) by only a handful of seers on only a single craftworld. Nobody else fives it any credence.
> 
> To me, it`s just wishful thinking made even less likely by Baron Spikey`s post. The Eldar today could not spawn a stronger god than they did 10k years ago.
> 
> But keep dreaming, if it gives you false hope...





Eldar Codex p39 said:


> A few Seers that have travelled along the most distant skeins of possible futures, Eldrar Ulthran foremost amongdt them, see a hidden hope. They believe as more and more Eldar leave the mortal coil and become one with the infinity circuits, a new Eldar god grows in power - Ynnead, God of the Dead. They believe that when every last Eldar has died in the final days, Ynnead will awaken and have strength enough to defeat Slaanesh forever.


So unless the Eldar futuresight is flawed (so not tainted somehow) and the Seers can guide fate down that path then Ynnead pretty much defeats Slaanesh.

In the end I think that the Eldar will loose to one of the more powerful enemies, but Slaanesh will be dealt with - and lets face it, thats the aim of the Eldar since the fall.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

And where is Eldrad now?

Did he see that coming?


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Well, he sacrificed himself to keep the Eldar on the path where the least of them would be killed, so yes he did.

So there is no reason he can't continue to guide the Eldar through his spirit stones (there must be some ineundo there)


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Spirit stones are only a power boost or wraith pilot, and only a handful of Eldrad`s remain.

btw my question was rhetorical. When Eldrad attempted to attack the Blackstone Fortress`s spirit, the daemon within it ambushed him. He did NOT see it coming.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Spirit stones are only a power boost or wraith pilot, and only a handful of Eldrad`s remain.


But once attached to the infinity circuit the seers spirit joins the others, I was always under the impression that the more powerful seers could commune with these spirits, tho I may be wrong.



> When Eldrad attempted to attack the Blackstone Fortress`s spirit, the daemon within it ambushed him. He did NOT see it coming.


Didn't he? maybe he saw the alternative path was much worse and he balanced the options? at no point that I have seen has it been said that Eldrad was clueless as to his fate, in fact that he activated many waystones before he left suggests he had a pretty good idea that he wasn't coming back.


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

Each race has its own "win condition." GW has provided everyone with enough fluff to conclude their side might win.

I frankly have an idea for an "ultimate" "good vs evil" ending, but talking about it tends to completely throw off the thread. (You see, it ticks off a lot of older members, because they view it as unfeasable, which it might be, and also violating the "grimdark" 40k nature.)

I can tell you in a private message if you don't know.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Its possible for Eldrad to come back. Seriously Eldrad is to Eldar what Calgar is to SMs. They will not get rid of him. They will more than likely have his soul endure the Black Stone Fortress and come back somehow, and before anyone try to say he cant comeback please remeber this is 40k. Daemons exist, Holy Water burns them, and a Gretchin can kill a SM in CC.... happens all the time at my store :laugh:.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

chaos space marines for 1 reason for every space marine created theres 50% chance of a new chaos space marine when chaos space marines kill space marines and more have to be made theres a strong chance of more chaos space marines comming


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> and a Gretchin can kill a SM in CC.... happens all the time at my store :laugh:.


Ye gads, I need to get my hands on those dice. The only decent thing my grots have done is absorb some fire from enemy forces!


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