# Is there any hard evidence that 40k and WHFB exist in the same universe?



## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Ok, so this came up on a chat site, and a big argument has happened. No one can find any evidence(sadly) and now a big arguement with no evidence has developed. Does anybody have any evidence that 40k and WHFB exist in the same universe? I don't want any "using logic....", I need an actual reference. 

Thanks in advance .


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

In the old school fluff the WHFB world was a planet in the Imperium that was surrounded by Warp Storms. That's why you don't see Pistoleers carting Bolt Pistols. That was dropped after a while, and the WHFB world just became another universe, totally seperate from the Imperium's universe.

-Dirge


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

The second Realms of Chaos book, The Lost And The Damned, had a section towards the back about mixing 40k and WHFB armies as they could be united within the realms of chaos. It also quite often reffered to the two systems as being linked through the Chaos Wastes and the Eye of Terror. 
Red Orc also mentioned something a while back about the Elves owning either a chainsword or a suit of power armour, something like that anyway. 
I spent a long time away from the hobby and it seems that in that time GW have killed off the idea, which is a shame.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Sorry Norm, I don't remember referring to an Elven suit of power armour or chainsword. Amazons had bolt pistols and needle-guns in 2nd Ed, I remember, and chaos champions could have plasma guns in 3rd Ed IIRC, but they're the only 40k weapons I know of in Fantasy.

I do get involved in this argument a lot though, because like you, I played many years ago when they were 'the same' and came back to find that they weren't and some people were very sarcastic about the idea that they were.

But in short Nathan, as Dirge and Norm have outlined, they used to be, then they weren't. The latest round of this argument, containing a pretty basic list of why they _were_ the same from the early days of 40k, is to be found here. But, of course, they are not currently considered to be the same game.

:cyclops of ancient knowlege:


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Sorry Orc, my mistake. I'm sure someone said it though. 
Damn my lack of short term memory, I thought it was such an insignificant thing to sacrifice, oh well we live and learn.

And then forget.:alcoholic:


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

I too have a hazy recollection that someone claimed *something like* ... in Ulthuan, the Elves have a suit of power armour. And I think they claimed it in a thread where I was mentioning Amazons and bolt pistols. But I can't find any references to it.

:not such a good detective cyclops:


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

of course theres a big arguement about the two games, there is evidence.

Slaanesh was created by Eldar and the god is in both games.

Sigmar is believed to be one of the missing primarchs.

The races are the same, dark elves=dark eldar, high elves=eldar, orks= orcs etc.

People say that 40k evolved from warhammer, but i believe warhammer was made after 40k? If not then still got the idea that necrons existed before humans could walk.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Ferrus Manus said:


> People say that 40k evolved from warhammer, but i believe warhammer was made after 40k? If not then still got the idea that necrons existed before humans could walk.


People say that because it is true. Fantasy came first then 40k evolved from it.

The main reason the gods and the races are similar is because it is far easier to think of two slightly different sets of races and fluff than it is to think of two completely different ones. Also why would you bother to make them completely separate? I like the fact I can switch between the two systems without having to remember lots of extra jazz, elves and eldar are powerful but fragile, bonus, no need to remember that that they are different in the two systems.

The whole sigmar is a primarch thing is just wishful thinking, GW have never hinted even slightly that that is the case that I know of, if they had it would be all over these topics like a rash.


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

I'm not really sure but didn't the Lizardmen get created by the Old Ones who "came from the stars." No idea really just thought I'd mention it. . .


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

In Liber Chaotica (Khorne), there is a daemon weapon, known simply as a Chainsword, is all respects identical in appearance to the Chainsword of 40K, apart from it having a basket hilt.


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## when in doubt shoot! (Oct 19, 2008)

yeah, in the necrons codex it suggests having a battle (somehow) between lizardmen and necrons, as necrons c'tan are at war with the lizardmens old ones. No idea how it would work though, lizardmen would get a good flaying.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Ferrus Manus said:


> ...
> People say that 40k evolved from warhammer, but i believe warhammer was made after 40k? If not then still got the idea that necrons existed before humans could walk.


Warhammer was released in 1982, IIRC. 40k was released in 1987, at the same time as WHFB 3rd Ed and WHFRPS. Necrons developed from Chaos Androids, which were first spotted in Space Crusade, I think in 1991.

In other words, WHFB existed for about 10 years, and 40k for about 4 years, before Necrons were thought of.

I was quite surprised when I started playing 40k again. Oh, what's happened to the Squats and the Slann? I thought. And who the **** are the Tau and the Necrons? And why are there _Dark_ Eldar? I thought all Eldar were 'Dark' (ie, arrogant, murderous, xenophobic pirates).

:keeper of the ancient knowledge cyclops:


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Red Orc said:


> I was quite surprised when I started playing 40k again. Oh, what's happened to the Squats and the Slann? I thought. And who the **** are the Tau and the Necrons? And why are there _Dark_ Eldar? I thought all Eldar were 'Dark' (ie, arrogant, murderous, xenophobic pirates).
> 
> :keeper of the ancient knowledge cyclops:


and WTF happened to the Genestealers!:angry:


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

I know very little about fantasy, but don't the elves have the same gods as the Eldar? I could have sworn seeing Khaine mentioned somehwere in Warhammer Online.

In any case, are the Elven gods still around in WFB? If they are, that should prove that 40k and Fantasy are separate because my buddy Slaanesh ate all but two of them.


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## Oldenhaller (Nov 28, 2008)

Red Orc said:


> I too have a hazy recollection that someone claimed *something like* ... in Ulthuan, the Elves have a suit of power armour. And I think they claimed it in a thread where I was mentioning Amazons and bolt pistols. But I can't find any references to it.
> 
> :not such a good detective cyclops:


Just randomly trawling the forums and it may well be the gifts of the old ones which were the prizes from the worldwide campaign 'Dark Shadows'. The winners recieved technological/magical artefacts which fitted exactly with 40k weaponry and armour.

Hope this helps

~O


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

During the Albion Campaign, you practically got given 40k weapons to use, like power swords, power fists, like doubles your strength but always strike last, or ignores armours saves etc as rewards

Edit: Should of read the poster above first


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## Oldenhaller (Nov 28, 2008)

lol...the perils of thread necromancy


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Im fairly certain GW themselves have announced that they do not exist in the same universe.

And the Sigmar is a lost primarch theory? Too many flaws to even begin bashing it, would be the worst primarch ever aswell if he was.


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Oldenhaller said:


> lol...the perils of thread necromancy


In the debate of threadcromancy and threadsurrection there are no winners. Threadcromancy is the lesser of two evils though. 

In response to the original question of the OP, I find that when I am drunk I can almost see a connection between the two. The next day when I'm hungover, I think that the so called "connection" is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

I thought the lizardmen were created by the old ones to fight chaos?


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

The old ones are Slaan I think.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> The old ones are Slaan I think.


No, the Old Ones spawned the Slaan in the First Spawning to act as apprentices and servants in effect, before the collapse of the polar gates. When the gates collapsed, the Old Ones disappeared and chaos seeped into the world the Slaan remained.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> No, the Old Ones spawned the Slaan in the First Spawning to act as apprentices and servants in effect, before the collapse of the polar gates. When the gates collapsed, the Old Ones disappeared and chaos seeped into the world the Slaan remained.


I was on about the Old ones in 40k, they were Slaan weren't they?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I was on about the Old ones in 40k, they were Slaan weren't they?


I`m pretty sure the slaan were their own race in 40k as well, but they no longer exist in fluff. 

I don`t know what their current 40k status is, or if they even have one. I know there was an image in the 4th ed rulebook of a thing called a _slaani_ but I don`t know if they are at all related. This thing certainly didn`t resemble the slaan of WHFB.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> I`m pretty sure the slaan were their own race in 40k as well, but they no longer exist in fluff.


Indeed; I am looking at them in Rogue trader as I type (p194-6 if anyone wants to look them up).

They have many similarities to the Old Ones, e.g. genetic manipulation, planet seeding, but have now regressed to a tribal caste system.


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