# Marines With Super Heavies?



## ClassyRaptor (Apr 7, 2010)

Look, I know IG have a crap load of Super Heavies in the armarda but is there any mention of Marines having a Super Heavy Tank, or anyting Super Heavy other than Titans, in the 40k Fluff. O know they have Land Raiders but I would not class that as a Super Heavy Tank.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Astartes Chapters act as rapid relief/spearhead forces not attrition forces. They have no need or time to maintain super-heavies. And by edicts of the Codex, I wouldn't be suprised if they weren't allowed to maintain any anyway.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

They just requisition the Guard super-heavies if they need them. Letting a Marine Chapter keep such things would make them too powerful in the scheme of things, I think.


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## ClassyRaptor (Apr 7, 2010)

So if I wanted to create a Super Heavy then it's free game?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Original Founding Legions had access to Fellblades. Essentially, a Baneblade crewed by Space Marines in game terms. But they are so much more. Like the Land Raider is not just a battle tank (due to the Machine Spirit, autonomous slave systems, and superior construction etc), so is the Fellblade to the Baneblade.

I believe the Marines lost either the rights to their use following the setting out of the Codex Astartes by Guilleman, or they no longer had the need to use it, following their new role.

However, certain "Legion" chapters may make use of them - Dark Angels (Deathwing), Space Wolves (Relic Vehicle), Ultramarines (because Games Workshop bangs one out when a Blue Marine is seen), Salamanders (high quality equipment), Iron Hands (ultimate armour), and Imperial Fists (siege works) may make occasional use of them.

Other forces (Raven Guard, Blood Angels and White Scar's) have an ethos or outlook that generally doesn't accompany their use.

However, their may be a reason that a Chapter has access to the now Baneblade. For example, on Macragge (Ultramarines Homeworld), the PDF, or Guard Regiments formed their may see a Baneblade used, perhaps in the Ultra's colours, or as a thanks for delivering a Forge World to safety.


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## imntdead (Apr 21, 2008)

I would just take the Space Marine Thunderhawk over any super heavy tank or titan anyday. 

Besides only the Adeptus Mehanicus have the privilege to field titans and the Imperial Guard have those lumbering big tanks because the Astartes have no use for them.

No that's wrong they could have a use for them. I suppose I should have said that there is no great need for them.


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## Raptors8th (Jul 3, 2009)

This has been played out spectacularly already: Space Marines + Baneblade Question

Generally arguments based on "codex says no" are ludicrous, particularly for SWs, IFs, and DAs who basically told the Smurfs to go fuck themselves. As for their use, while, IFs/IHs have siege doctrines, SHs would be usefull there, and other chapters would probably use them fo defensive purposes in their fortress-monasteries.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Raptors8th said:


> This has been played out spectacularly already: Space Marines + Baneblade Question
> 
> Generally arguments based on "codex says no" are ludicrous, particularly for SWs, IFs, and DAs who basically told the Smurfs to go fuck themselves. As for their use, while, IFs/IHs have siege doctrines, SHs would be usefull there, and other chapters would probably use them fo defensive purposes in their fortress-monasteries.


Except of course the Imperial Fists are only bettered by the Ultramarines in adhering to the Codex...

The Iron Hands have their own Super Heavies in the form of their mobile fortresses on Medusa (don't know where you got the idea that IH are siege specialists though Raptor, probably the same place you read that the IF don't follow the Codex).


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## imntdead (Apr 21, 2008)

Probably just mistaken the Iron Hands with the Iron Warriors. I have seen that happen way to often  

Although the Imperial Fists and half of the loyal legions did refuse to adhere to the codex which almost resulted in another major conflict. In the end they still broke up the legions into separate chapters and were denied access to a great deal of warships, vehicles, titans and other Imperial forces. Indeed many of the chapters do not follow the codex to the letter; but they are still somewhat influenced by it in one way or another as they keep themselves in check. Even though sometimes chapters like the Space Wolves and Black Templars do tend to push the limits but they are of the first and second founding so they are given a little breathing room.

Still even with the privileges that such chapters have at their disposal realistically they really do not have any great need for a super heavy tank like those of the Imperial.

However their is someone I would like to point out that most 40k players tend to forget about and they are the Serf's. Every space marine player should know who the serf's are they are the loyal hereditary servants of the chapter. Space Marines can't manage all the tasks required to maintain a chapter which includes full operation of the fleet and the fortress. Serf's would be as well trained as the very best of the Imperial Guard and are a humble and vital part of the chapter. 

In my opinion if there was any super heavy tank that was apart of a space marine force it would be one that was operated by the serf's. 

*SERF'S THE UNSUNG HEROES OF WARHAMMER 40,000 FTW!*


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## ClassyRaptor (Apr 7, 2010)

Cause I'm thinking or creating a massive Space Marine Super Heavy for my SW army, I plan to use both the Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer sets and Predators sets accompanied by the Whirlwind missile bateries, I also plan to make it twice as wide and twice as high.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

What about the Leviathan? 

Thats a Marine super heavy, but theres only the epic model, and no 40k rules. 

Technically the IG don't have access to titans either. They are still part of independant titan legions and are loaned out as and when needed


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

It's an IG model, actually.

If you look at it in the real world, they are the Paras, the SAS, the SBS and the Royal Marines (technically, they are Storm Troopers, but the nearest analogy to the Space Marines are those). We don't use the Main Battle Tanks - we use Viking's, Land Rovers, and occasionally Warrior AFV's loaned from the Household Cavalry. Our role is not a pitched battle to bring the enemy down by superior firepower - we're snatch and grab, fast, long range detachments.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

if you want a marine super heavy you have the thunderhawk and thats it, the codex does not allow super heavies, and marines don't have a way of effectively transporting and using them (ignoring the stupid BS from previous threads of thunderhawks carrying baneblades in a net between two of them and idiots actually taking that seriously), and marines don't really have an effective way of fighting alongside them, marines are fast moving strike forces who get in and out and leave nothing behind, a baneblade or any superheavy is hardly described as "fast"

if however a marine force has a guard PDF then they would have super heavies, but again I really doubt they would use them themselves, they would be in the second line of attack supported by PDF forces, or in the first line of defense with PDF forces until marines arrive.

people who want things like baneblades in there marine forces are usually those who ignore the fluff or who stretch it so damn far they start to look like muppets who just want all the toys because they play marines.

don't take a land based superheavy, create something that instead actually fits the theme of space marines, or perhaps a slightly altered thunderhawk gunship, gluing 500 land raiders together and slapping on more guns than the USS Iowa ends up looking stupid all the time


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## ClassyRaptor (Apr 7, 2010)

Thats the thing, I don't really want to be laying out the cash for a Thunder Hawk at the moment. I have to many things going on at home that need my urgent monitary assistance. But I will plan this out before I just go slapping on guns, I never make anything that doesn't look good.


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## Betawing (Jul 25, 2009)

This contains *SPOILERS*  of the Book: Fallen Angels


Ok, The book Fallen Angels during the Horus Heresy, describes 6 super siege weapons on the planet of Diamet (or somehting spelled like that) created for Horus by the Mechcianium. Which the Lion so expertly retook then gave to the Primarch of the Iron Warriors (right back into Horus's hands) to be used on the traitor legions at Issvatan V.

Hope this helps.

Also they are Space Marines they dont need heavy weapons beside titians and they only keep them around because they look cool.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Except Space Marines don't have Titans- the Collegia Titanicus are the operators of the Titans and they answer only to the Adeptus Mechanicus.


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## DavC8855 (Oct 14, 2008)

Beta-Those siege tanks from "Fallen Angels" were (if I'm wrong someone please tell me) as long as a titan is tall. But that was also during the Heresy where any legion could have whatever kit they desired.

The Marines also do not have titans either, the must requisition them from the Ad Mec. Heresy or 41st Millenium.

In any case Vali, get your Super Heavy Baneblade. It is a rocking model to build and to paint. Pick up some etched brass and paint the gunner in the colors of your chapter (to represent a serf. I did mine for a traitor IG regiment to go along with my Black Legion Army. :grin:


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## Raptors8th (Jul 3, 2009)

@Spikey: Yeah, cause dorn was so thrilled when pappa smurf knocked on his door and gave him the reorganization packet. That's why he made the friggin 6,000 strong BTs, so he would be %100 codex. Dorn was known to oppose the codex, and chapters always consider their primarch first. If Dorns book said bring super heavies then I'm pretty sure they're gonna bring them.

@imntdead: No I meant IHs, not IWs. I know the difference. Not exactly siege doctrine, more like crons. Slow and unstoppable advance. And they're basically mechanicus with geneseed, both facts that mean them plus SHs makes sense.

@Vali: Oh you play SWs? Great. Then it's easy as hell. Anyone who says anything about Codex is a total moron, the wolves have no regard for the good ol' dex whatsoever. They probably have ceremonial burnings of it.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Except of course the Black Templars weren't 6,000 strong when they were founded, nothing suggests that they were any bigger than the other 2nd Founding Chapters created.

If you actually bothered to look into the Imperial Fists background then you'd know that according to the Imperial Fists Index Astartes article they adhere so strongly to the Codex that only the Ultramarines adhere to it more zealously.
Dorn opposed the break up of the Legions initially but after he accepted the necessity of the change he went into isolation with the Imperial Fists Chapter and returned a firm supporter of Guilliman's plans.


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## Betawing (Jul 25, 2009)

Guys I didn't say that the Space Marine chapters have Titans just that they "use" them as in request them for combat, just to clear that up and also I'm a huge fan of pre heresy Warhammer 40k not post so much it just seems to hypocritical and cruel to EVERYONE!!!! even space marines fear something - the inquistion - which in my opinon is stupid. 

Baron Spikey: The Imperial FISTs are not the Black templar so they are two different chapters, and Dorn didn't correct the whole devote Codex thing until after the second founding.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

I'm well aware the Imperial Fists are not the Black Templars, but they were reorganised under the orders of the same Primarch. Dorn divided his Legion into the Codex approved Chapters and then went into isolation with the Imperial Fists (after the Iron Cage incident) and returned fully committed to have the IF follow the Codex religiously.

Yes Space Marines can petition the Adeptus Mechanicus/Collegia Titanicus to fight alongside them, but if the Mechanicus says no to their petition there's not a lot the Space Marines can do about it.


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## imntdead (Apr 21, 2008)

Vali ThunderAxe said:


> Thats the thing, I don't really want to be laying out the cash for a Thunder Hawk at the moment. I have to many things going on at home that need my urgent monitary assistance. But I will plan this out before I just go slapping on guns, I never make anything that doesn't look good.


Yeah damn Thunderhawks are expensive so I take it you have all the parts, pieces, kits and well you know all the stuff you need to build the mighty warmachine. I hope to see some rules for it in homebrew/houserules. So what do you intend to call it?


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## ClassyRaptor (Apr 7, 2010)

I don't have the kits as of yet, because first I want to know if I can actually pull it off otherwise I would have just spent allot of money on allot of kits that I wouldnt need. But I don't really know about a name yet. I'm open to suggestions though, but it is a SW thing.


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## Gothminion (Nov 20, 2009)

Space marines won't bother with mega tanks, coz they could have mega dreadnoughts instead... Just make yourself a frame, get lots of cardboard boxes, and masses of green stuff.


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## Gothminion (Nov 20, 2009)

Changed by mind - to keep with the fast spearhead idea of marines, how about a massive sorta land speeder?


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## Capt.Al'rahhem (Jan 24, 2009)

Gothminion said:


> Changed by mind - to keep with the fast spearhead idea of marines, how about a massive sorta land speeder?


Good idea, parhaps you could call it a Thunderhawk?


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## ClassyRaptor (Apr 7, 2010)

lol, owned. I don't think Iw ill need allot of Green stuff. Maybe a bit for some pelts but that's about it. I will just kit bash a massive Land Raider. But does anyone know if it is possible to buy two LR kits and then make it longer and wider by using more plates? I woulnd't know because I have never wanted a LR before so never bought the kit. ANy help would be much appreciated.


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## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

the only way i could see a Marine in a Baneblade is if the Marine/whole chapter went renegade, and as they turned to evil they saw a nice brand new company of Super heavies(as i believe fluff wise Super heavy tanks come in companies of Three? correct me if i am wrong) and decided to kill everyone and take it. of course after taking the blasted thing, the marines that jumped inside, the first Marine would look around at all the buttons and switches, and levers and then say, "this is going to be a bit more difficult then i had first thought." as a BaneBlade crew is like the best of the best, speically trained to pilot the Blade. even tech marines would have a difficult time trying to pilot it. as it takes more then a few of the best Imperial tank crewmen to drive those Big SOBs


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Ok found a marine super heavy, The capitol imperialis Its a rolling bunker, that carries a company of marines, from the 1990s


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Actually a Capitol Imperialis is an Imperial Guard only vehicle now as well.


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## ClassyRaptor (Apr 7, 2010)

LOL, how about we just say Marines have no Super Heavies other than the ThunderHawk and what my creation will become. :grin:


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## Blueberrypop (Apr 27, 2010)

No they have the Angry marine titan


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## ClassyRaptor (Apr 7, 2010)

I will make a Marine Titan Killer.


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## Inquisitor Gonzo (May 11, 2010)

Vaz said:


> It's an IG model, actually.
> 
> If you look at it in the real world, they are the Paras, the SAS, the SBS and the Royal Marines (technically, they are Storm Troopers, but the nearest analogy to the Space Marines are those). We don't use the Main Battle Tanks - we use Viking's, Land Rovers, and occasionally Warrior AFV's loaned from the Household Cavalry. Our role is not a pitched battle to bring the enemy down by superior firepower - we're snatch and grab, fast, long range detachments.


Pretty good comparison there. 

I've never heard nor seen of marines using super-heavy armoured vehicles , although I'd be the first to admit I'm not a font of supreme knowedge on such things :grin:

However, using super-heavies would be pretty out of touch for the role that marines normally have, as Vaz says.

Another consideration is the logistics of it - ok, a marine chapter has a Baneblade (for example).

How does it transport it to the battlefield? Will there be a loading/storage bay big enough for it in a strike cruiser or battle barge? How does it get down to the surface? Will the tech-marines be able to commune with the tanks' machine spirit to keep it running? Do they have sufficient quantities of spare parts etc for that purpose? I'm a bit anal about these logistical details, but you get the point :grin:

Saying that though, it IS a big universe out there, and there are 1000 odd chapters to play with. But really, if you want to play with super-heavies, I'd just go with Imperial Guard allies, or as others have suggested, call them a unit of Guard recruited from the chapters' home world PDF and stick mixed livery on them to show their joint Guard/Marine heritage.

Marines are the Imperiums finest infantry after all. IMHO it's a bit of a waste to stick them in a big chuffing tank when some Guardsmen can do the job almost as well, especially if they're all hardwired up to the targeters etc.


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## Tuck3r (Apr 9, 2010)

K a couple of other super heavy ideas for the marines while they don't use super heavy tanks anything Aireal and transporty is a good thing for the space marines as flying is faster than tanks. however. one way someone could incorporate a baneblade or something... say a space marines chapter master is dropped OH NOOOOZ... and there aren't any dreadnot sarcophogi to spare for him... oh wait we have a baneblade sitting around we don't want. lets hardwire him to that.....

It could work EX... the, Bellus space marine battle barge of the blood angels chapter. Captain Idealon not sure on spellin just now was badly injured but not killed. some chaos dude or orc or somehing pretty much severed his spine they put him on life support then for unknown reasons he is hardwired to the belus. So he pretty much IS the ship similar to the way space marines are interred in dreads.
Just a random thought but it could work... and there is enough space in a battle barge for a super heavy tank there just isn't any way to get it to the surface. keep in mind that the bigger titans like the warlord patter and imperitor patter are brought down to the surface in parts....


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## Justindkates (Apr 30, 2010)

Meh you could just make your super heavy tank, call it what you want and make up some fluff as to why they have it. 

I mean being a modeling hobby and what not we do get the luxury of being able to make shit up sometimes. 

Build it, make some rules for it and see who want to play a game for this thing called... "fun"


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## Justindkates (Apr 30, 2010)

EDIT 

Wow my connection hung for a moment and it posted 4 replies... Sorry : /


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