# side line generals



## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

Do any of you find when you go into a GW store and start battling someone there is always some guy or group of guys that help you opposition? Its REALLY ANNOYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:angry: I just want to stab them in the eye with my pin vice:blackeye: or i normally say to my actual opponent give that guy your tape measure and move to one side thay come back with why? I finish with because it seems that hes the general and not you. And even worse the Staff members join in too so it works out to be 2+ generals against you. Its REALLY ANNOYING!!!!!!!!!!!:angry:

ps i put this thread in tactics because I wasn't sure where to put it and that fact the side line generals always give tactical advice


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## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

Thats pretty funny, I guess I never really thought about it until now. However it is quite annoying...:angry: 

I find it worse when other people try and Side Line General me while I'm playing. I feel these people are doing me a discredit in the long run. Let me make my foolish mistakes because I'll remember the smack down and won't repeat it. After the game is perfect for C&C not during.

Any rate, I feel your pain brother:victory:


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

Best thing to do when you are the one they are talking to is simply say; "Tape Measure (pick up tape measure), Dice (point to dice), Little Painted Men (Point to Army), *&^% ME, I'M THE ONE WHO IS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYING." It is an uncannily effective technique.


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## Dreamseller (Nov 15, 2007)

happened to me once was charging my berzerkers to nids and this lad asked wat i was doin and i said kill the nids flank the necrons hopfully and he said why dont you charge the necrons then an i was like cause there are fucking NIDS IN THE FUCKING WAY! and got thrown outta the store :ireful2:


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I take it as a compliment when that happens. It means that the other guy needs help to beat me! To be honest, it's been happening a lot lately, because my Lions Rampant are a bunch of badasses... they've been winning firefights with Tau and outfighting Tyranids in close combat... a mix of decent tactics, eight years of playing Space Marines in some capacity, and simply being great all-rounders with True Grit has kind of made them the army to beat around here at the moment. That sounds really pretentious, but yeah... 

Seriously though, if someone wanders up and starts making suggestions to the other player... take it with a grain of salt. It probably looks to them like you're winning. Or they think you're a dick.  You never know.


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## QuietEarth (Aug 18, 2007)

I once found myself giving advice to my friend who I was playing, but it was for his advantage. He deployed to War Trakks together in a unit and I told him that he could make them two separate units and therefore hits wouldn't be carried over onto both vehicles.


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## Dartanyun (Nov 14, 2007)

I try not to do it but on occasion i will ask the player why they are doing something out of curiosity. this ussually gets them to re think the idea, or i ask afterward why they mad that move. most of the time they over looked something or had a diffrent idea. they may think a certain unit is more threating or some other tactic they are developing. I have a freind who will play the fluff of his army first. this gets in the way of 40k tactics, making common sense moves as if it really were marines who didn't know rules.


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## Asmodai (Dec 30, 2006)

Lord Sinkoran said:


> Do any of you find when you go into a GW store and start battling someone there is always some guy or group of guys that help you opposition?


Nope. But then I don't have any desire to squeeze into a tiny GW store with too few 4x4 tables and tons of hyper children.

There's a FLGS in town which is immensely superior in every imaginable way and I have my own table and terrain at home.

Backseat generals are annoying though, no doubt about it.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

The Son of Horus said:


> I take it as a compliment when that happens. It means that the other guy needs help to beat me! To be honest, it's been happening a lot lately, because my Lions Rampant are a bunch of badasses... they've been winning firefights with Tau and outfighting Tyranids in close combat... a mix of decent tactics, eight years of playing Space Marines in some capacity, and simply being great all-rounders with True Grit has kind of made them the army to beat around here at the moment. That sounds really pretentious, but yeah...
> 
> Seriously though, if someone wanders up and starts making suggestions to the other player... take it with a grain of salt. It probably looks to them like you're winning. Or they think you're a dick.  You never know.


That's an excellent approach. I'll have to remember to look at it that way the next time half the store helps the other guy.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

When it happens to me I calmly ask the sideline general if that is his army on the table and if he is the one I am in a game with followed by the reply to his reply of 'then go play your own game and let us get on with ours'. Of course, it also helps that I look like a biker (which I am btw lol) and people tend to assume that I have absolutely no problem with the idea of administering a beating to someone on general principles (which I don't). Haven't been sidelined in a long time.


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## foulacy (Nov 24, 2007)

haha i like wraithlords approach


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## Sinizter (Dec 10, 2007)

I refer to them as "The Peanut Gallery" because half the time their advice can be ruinous. 

Now I just ignore them when I'm playing a game.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

there was this one battle at school, which really got my goat. first a bit if background. In school I set up a gaming club where there were 2 titles master of 40k and master of fantasy. It was like king of the hill you keep the title untill you are beaten or refuse a challenge with out a good reason. Any points must follow FOC etc etc. Because I am me I hold both titles, this one battle that I mention before Almost lost me my 40k title due to a side line general. He just wouldn't SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!!!:angry:. The guy I was battle wasn't very good and he new he wasn't he just challenged me just for the sake of battling. My opposition made his usual mistakes taking off a CSM when he rolled a 5 for an armour save The side liner told him it was a pass, thats fine telling them the rules but The thing that almost lost me the batle was my oppostion was going to charge his daemon prince into my 10 man squad of terminators because he thought it could take them but the side liner told him not to so instead of using his own idea where he could learn from his own mistakes he follws the side liners advice (it seemed more like an order at the time) into my 6 man tacy squad which he was going to blatently going to wipe out and was right next to my land raider which was his objective to destroy to win the game (we were doing a DIY senario). I thought if that prince kills that squad and destroys the landraider i'm going to rip out the side liners throat with my bare hands. Thankfully for the side liner the prince missed with every attack. The side liner gave him 'orders' all through the game but this one was the worst.


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## kh4054ng3l (Nov 23, 2007)

I don't mind sideline generals if they are teaching/helping players learn how to play, ie giving reasons to charge certain units over others, or showing them other objectives to target for, etc..., as long as they explain to the player and let them choose.

I don't like it when it turns into the bossy type, this makes it his game instead of your proper opponent. 

In a game against a friend we had this problem once (My IG vs his Marines). Using the old ordnance rules, I tried to hit the sideliner general with my basilisk guesses (and ask someone to toss the marker there, my opponent actually flung it at him, he was more annoyed with it than me). Cost me the game, but did prevent him from doing it again that I know of. (and cause a few laughs)


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

I forgot my worst "sideline" general experience until I read Sinkoran's post. About a year and a half ago I was in a WHFB tourney in Indiana (which btw I will never go to a Tournament hosted by The Game Preserve EVER again). Well in round 2 I am playing against the Tomb Kings and my Dwarfs are holding their own until the #&$*ing judge walks up and starts telling the guy what he needs to do. First he gives him maneuver advice and then tells him he can move his messengers off the side of the table (even though the scenario stated it had to be in my deployment zone.) This guy was a real tool also. In round 1 I played my buddie (who traveled 3 hours to the tourny with me), and was threatened to be thrown out because we each gave 9,9,9, out of 10s because "we knew each other". We tried to get new opponents prior to round 1 but were told basically tough luck. In round 3 this judge walks up to my buddie's table and tells him and the guy he is playing that they are in tied for 1st. My buddie smacks down the other guy and ends up in 3rd because the dirtbag he was playing lowballed him (1,2,1). There is alot more crap that went on but I am getting pissed again thinking about it.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

You took a 3 hour journey to a tournemnt, seems insane to me but it ended up a crappy tourney!!!! thats terrible reminds me of the devourer combat patrol tourny it was so badly organised i just went to the museum (in worhammer world) ccame back at the end and some how I had gained 3 wins even though I hadn't played 3 games.


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

Yeah not only a 3 hour drive, but also out 30 for the entry fee and 15 for the gas to get there. There is no GW store around me, just rogue traders (2 about 45 min drive) and only one of those has tourneys. I am in a black hole as far as gaming goes so I have to travel to play any tourney unless my gaming group hosts a group tourney.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

I'm an hours bus ride from my local (can't drive yet) and £4 a return its not cheap seeing a direct route is like 20 mins


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## Regwon (Nov 22, 2007)

When i play a game of 40K or WHFB i want a challenge. i just dont get as much satisfaction from wipping the floor with a guy as playing a difficult, well played, battle. unfortunately most people in my local area dont have as thourgh grasp of the rules as i do or what makes an effective armylist. usually this means i will give people advice. i take this to the extent that i will give my opponent advice to my own detriment. it usually makes the experiance more enjoyable for everyone. having said that i dont take sides. if both players are make mistakes, whether rule or tactical, i will give both advice.

from the other side of the table im perfectly happy for anyone to give my opponent advice. short of actually playing the game for someone i find it usually makes very little difference to the outcome of the battle. if a person is making stupid mistakes constantly then no amount of advice is going to make them win. i find that good tactics and a good army list is usually enough to win you a game no matter how many generals you're playing against.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

I agree with kh4054ng3l in what he says about its not so bad if the guy is helping out a beginner or teaching someone. Even then though, I hope that he/she would point things out after the turn was made. That way at least the guy can learn but the game outcome isn't affected too much.


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## Handbag of Joy (Dec 1, 2007)

Remember, more generals means more minds to conflict ideas with one another, a single person will usually do much better if he is in touch with his army's strategies than 9 generals ever could due to all of them having a different vision of the gameplan/future outcomes and consequences of the game.


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

asianavatar said:


> I agree with kh4054ng3l in what he says about its not so bad if the guy is helping out a beginner or teaching someone. Even then though, I hope that he/she would point things out after the turn was made. That way at least the guy can learn but the game outcome isn't affected too much.


I totally agree dude with the exception of my earlier post when I was IN the middle of a tournament. If we're in my buddy's garage then cool but if I've paid to play in a tourney then people need to keep their mouths shut.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

I missed that part of your post mgtymouze. But yeah if you are in a tournament than really I think you should be playing against one person and one person only. No buddies helping out, no people dropping hints etc. I am surprised there were people standing around your table giving hints. In most tournaments I see, spectators are told to keep away from the tables just for that reason.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

wow 3 pages and 22 posts this must be my most successful thread ever:biggrin:

i'm glad i'm not the only gamer which this annoys. in tourneys if I had my way nobody would be allowed near a table unless they are playing on it.


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

Asianavatar, like I said it wasn't just a person it was a &^%$ing judge. Oh well teaches me to go into an unknown rogue trader tourney. My overall performance that day was satisfactory. Last round was almost perfect though, only lost 3 dwarfs while crushing the Dark Elf player.


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## AntiPaladin (Jun 26, 2007)

I tend to find myself in an odd position at my local stores (gives it a minute for the dirty cackles to be made) since I also serve as the local rules/fluff lawyer. 

I get asked all the questions of "Can I do this?" and "Should I do this?" which is fine outside of a game, but when it's in game I have to decide how to act. Answer truthfully when the noob asks "Should I assault X with my Y?" or just shake my head and say "I'll tell you later"?

Also, I'm a very visual type, since I'll look at and game going on and study it to think of scenarios of what might happen when, which gets on some people's nerves when I hunch over and start eyeballing distances.

But when I'm actually playing a game outside of a tournemnet, I say help the other guy as much as possible - it forces you to think harder, since we've all had those random flashes of insight that were inspired by a dumb comment off in the distance.


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