# Dark Eldar Elites?



## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

When, if at all, would it be appropriate to include bloodbrides or mandrakes in my army, and how, if at all, should I run the bloodbrides? EDIT-I ask this, because, while I think they're alright, I don't think they're worth the elites choice either of them would take up.

If I shouldn't ever run either, what three (four if you're indecisive) elites units do you consider the best choices, and when/why/how should I run them?


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

DE elites, like the rest of the codex, took a hit with 6th edition. Bloodbrides were already only average before, their sole advantage the ability to carry more wych weapons, but now with overwatch and random charges, you'll be losing expensive models for each 6 the enemy rolls, meaning many of those cool weapons will die before ever seeing action.

Trueborm remain a solid choice, as shooting is king now. Balster and darklight spam for dealing with MeQs, or splinter cannons and carbnes to make tyranids and other high-toughness armies weep.

Incubi also took a hit, but remain good. They actually have armor to try and take a shot or two, and the Klavex has an actual fast AP2 weapon that makes him boss for challenges. They are very harmed by the lack of grenades, though.

Wracks don't make much sense unless you really try for a wrack-spam, and even then they are not very good. This 'durable' troop is about as survivable as a naked ork boy in bad cover and has little shooting to speak of, even if their templates can be dangeorus if you have a lot. Like all fragile units that excel in CC, they are no longer efficient. 

Mandrakes are a sad case. Without shooting at first, their only hope was getting a good outflank going and assault something dangerous the turn they came into play. Now that is impossible due to the rules change, meaning you'll be a sitting duck for the enemy army to shoot at for at least one turn, then eat more overwatch when you charge. Real shame, because the models are awesome. 

Grotesques are a bit wonky because of mobility. You can fit only a few in a Raider and you'll need a haemi with them. They are big targets, too, so will take losses now that they can't assault out of a Webway Portal anymore. But their high T and wounds means they can lock some very expensive units in CC for a long time, especially if you abuse Look Out Sir!. even massed power fists can't insta-kill them if they are under S10.

I have no experience with harlequins, but they seem to be useful now due to good cover saves. I'm not usre if it's the DE or the Eldar version that is useful, however, as both are the same thing, but different, because that's how GW rolls.


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## LTKage (May 2, 2012)

+ Above.

Mandrakes were always trash, so moot point.

Bloodbrides are now totally eclipsed by their Wyche counterparts, unless you're playing against an army with units that can't overwatch.

I would like to point out that defensive grenades actually help Incubi now.

IMO that Grotesques got better because their FNP works against power weapons and other annoying things. It's sad that they can't come out of the Webway Porthole. 

No experience with Harlequins.

Would probably rate as follows:
(1) Trueborn
(2) Incubi
(3) Grotesques/Harlequins 
(4) Bloodbrides
(5) Mandrakes


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

I know.... overwatch and random charge distances really messed us up.... I guess GW didn't really give much thought to how those mechanics would adversely affect assault armies, and how frail DE are certainly doesn't help.

In any case, I am grateful for the input.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

The first 2 to reply seem to have everything covered. I'm really hoping that the rumored next round of FAQ(starter set) will give us a few things back. If anyone should have better than 5+ FNP it is the DE. And our second Pain Token(Furious Charge) also got nerfed. I guess I'm just hoping that the WWP will be restored to a means of Reserves being able to charge, especially given the ease of avoiding it. Until then, look to shooting lists and the Reavers.


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## Pandora (Jun 19, 2012)

LTKage said:


> Would probably rate as follows:
> (1) Trueborn
> (2) Incubi
> (3) Grotesques/Harlequins
> ...


Sadly, this is pretty spot on. I'm with Archon Dan in hopping an FAQ can restore some of our Dark Glory. My Wyches are just taking the time to sharpen their blades while the Kabalites have the spotlight.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

Adramalech said:


> I know.... overwatch and random charge distances really messed us up.... I guess GW didn't really give much thought to how those mechanics would adversely affect assault armies, and how frail DE are certainly doesn't help.
> 
> In any case, I am grateful for the input.


Overwatch and the random charge can be mitigated...if you are T4 3+ marine or a 6-point boy or gaunt that brought 29 friends along. 

When you're a naked T3 small-unit assault specialist that really needs to get neatly into CC to kill before you're killed...not so much. :headbutt:


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

Sephyr said:


> Overwatch and the random charge can be mitigated...if you are T4 3+ marine or a 6-point boy or gaunt that brought 29 friends along.
> 
> When you're a naked T3 small-unit assault specialist that really needs to get neatly into CC to kill before you're killed...not so much. :headbutt:


I mean, I suppose you could shoot at the unit you want to charge to whittle them down so they don't screw you up so much with overwatch, but then you run the risk of destroying them (in the ensuing assault phase, of course) and having your unit out in the open on the opponent's turn without a reliable armour save....

being able to take dodge saves against snapshots while charging would go a LONG way toward fixing that particular issue...


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## LTKage (May 2, 2012)

Sephyr said:


> Overwatch and the random charge can be mitigated...if you are T4 3+ marine or a 6-point boy or gaunt that brought 29 friends along.
> 
> When you're a naked T3 small-unit assault specialist that really needs to get neatly into CC to kill before you're killed...not so much. :headbutt:


Assault out of cover with a phantasmal grenade launcher. That's a 4+ cover save. Fleet rules are pretty nifty, what with being able to re-roll any combination of dice. And if you're close enough to benefit from the PGL, honestly, you shouldn't worry about random charge distances.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

LTKage said:


> Assault out of cover with a phantasmal grenade launcher. That's a 4+ cover save. Fleet rules are pretty nifty, what with being able to re-roll any combination of dice. And if you're close enough to benefit from the PGL, honestly, you shouldn't worry about random charge distances.


Good call. Perhaps there is some life to the assault elements of the army yet. Assuming you can get a PGL in the unit anyway. And that should be all but the Haemonculus Coven units.


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

LTKage said:


> Assault out of cover with a phantasmal grenade launcher. That's a 4+ cover save. Fleet rules are pretty nifty, what with being able to re-roll any combination of dice. And if you're close enough to benefit from the PGL, honestly, you shouldn't worry about random charge distances.


I regret to inform you that you'll be one of the first to die in the zombie apocalypse-your brain is just too tasty.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

LTKage said:


> Assault out of cover with a phantasmal grenade launcher. That's a 4+ cover save. Fleet rules are pretty nifty, what with being able to re-roll any combination of dice. And if you're close enough to benefit from the PGL, honestly, you shouldn't worry about random charge distances.


This is needlessly complicated, and also dangerous.


So now instead of trying to close ground with the unit I want tocharge to get the best change of not failing the assault, I need to secure nearby cover (reducing my movement) and then assault out of it (worsening my charge roll), in addition to requiring a 20-point piece of wargear. That flamers will still ignore. 

Not saying it can't work, but it's a lot of work and cost for a result that is still pretty subpar.


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## LTKage (May 2, 2012)

Adramalech said:


> I regret to inform you that you'll be one of the first to die in the zombie apocalypse-your brain is just too tasty.


...Thanks....?




Sephyr said:


> This is needlessly complicated, and also dangerous.
> 
> 
> So now instead of trying to close ground with the unit I want tocharge to get the best change of not failing the assault, I need to secure nearby cover (reducing my movement) and then assault out of it (worsening my charge roll), in addition to requiring a 20-point piece of wargear. That flamers will still ignore.
> ...




Except that it's not. For defensive grenades to work, you have to be within 8". You have fleet, so you can reroll any combination of dice rolled for that move. It also doesn't cost 20 points for Bloodbrides or even Wycches for that matter. You almost have to take the upgrade with your Archon if he is attached to a unit of Incubi.

I don't really find it all that complicated either. If one of your Raiders explodes, you'll get a 4+ from the crater if within 8". If you're Wyches get to disembark, then you just disembark them 6" into cover and you get +1 to your save. Because Wyches are 6+ and have fleet, you would probably do that anyway to minimize damage from Overwatch. You also wouldn't try to charge further than 8" because you're trying to have a successful charge.

There's nothing we can do about flamers but there is something we can do about the rest of Overwatch. I, for one, like the idea of not having my Wyches die to massed lasgun or shoota fire when assaulting.


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

LTKage said:


> ...Thanks....?


you and your amazing mind are very welcome.



Sephyr said:


> This is needlessly complicated, and also dangerous.
> 
> 
> So now instead of trying to close ground with the unit I want tocharge to get the best change of not failing the assault, I need to secure nearby cover (reducing my movement) and then assault out of it (worsening my charge roll), in addition to requiring a 20-point piece of wargear. That flamers will still ignore.
> ...


Phantasm Grenade Launchers aren't 20 points except on a dracon or sybarite, both of which are irrelevant to the subject of wyches dealing with overwatch.

It's not so complicated-just make sure you put a lot of craters on the board before you play the game XD


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