# Games Workshop UK Retailer Trade Terms Changes 2013



## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

GWs new trade terms:


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I am surprised? No
I am disappointed. Yes.

Another dickish move on GW's part that stops me from building miniatures in the way I would like to (i.e. using parts from many different kits).

And people wonder why I have no sympathy for them when guys like CH start piggybacking. Frankily with cunty moves like this GW are asking for it.

Seeing as GW seems to be trying to stamp out the second hand market now I wonder how long it'll be before I start having to sign an end user agreement to buy minis. Hell they've just by the sounds of it they've made it so that 1st tier retailers can't sell kits to people they think GW might is going to sell it via auction sites.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

So GW is still beating up the internet again. I'd really like to know what exactly keeps spurning them to keep locking down on this instead of capitalizing on it more.

And yes, greed is the obvious answer but I think it's probably a bit more specific than that.

At least it seems that a brick and mortar store might be able to have a kind of mail order store online. That's something positive out of this at least.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

You can still sell online it seems, you just need to have a B&M shop as well as all.

Sounds like a good move to me as the benefits of a shop front to us are many. Why should the guy who puts his money into a venue for his customers be put out of business by undercutting from companies that have eliminated the overhead.


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

Magpie_Oz said:


> You can still sell online it seems, you just need to have a B&M shop as well as all.
> 
> Sounds like a good move to me as the benefits of a shop front to us are many. Why should the guy who puts his money into a venue for his customers be put out of business by undercutting from companies that have eliminated the overhead.


The thing is is that people like our very own B&K provide a valuable service to the hobby and make it possible for people to be able to customize their miniatures. For example I plan on building a small Ordo Xenos army to use in apocalypse, creating a data sheet to field a proper Deathwatch Killteam. To do this I'd be buying a set of Deathwatch shoulder pads and bolter and the Sternguard upgrade kit for the heavy bolter and heavy flamer. from GW direct, as well a SM tactical Squad for the bodies from my local GW store. I then wanted to order a few extra bits and pieces to decorate the various members of the squad from the SW, BA, DA and GK ranges from online bits stores. Why should I have to buy whole kits for the use of a couple of components when the rest of the kit will sit gathering dust. GW encourages it's customers to customize their armies and come up with really cool conversions and really make their hobby their own, and now they're severely hampering peoples' abilities to do so. It really is a prickish move on their part and shows a serious lack of ethics. I realize they are company and need to make money, but they're making it their only priority, and that's just fucking greedy IMHO. I know they're using the excuse that they're trying to look after thgeir hobby centres and the indy retailers who have brick and mortar stores but I reckon that's bullshit. Apple, another company who have share holders they have to keep happy, not to mention their own retail outlets and independant retailers as well aren't shutting down online venders who stock their products, many of whom offer the products at a reduced rate. So it is possible to make a profit in an ethical manor, pitty GW has lost their way. JUst my two cents anyway.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

So what's going to happen to bits stores, just disappear?

Edit: This will seriously hinder my enjoyment of the game tbh, I love doing conversions, more so than painting or even gaming. Sometimes I buy a model from GW and then gets the bits to convert it, what they are basically saying now is they want you to buy the model from them then buy a complete set of something else just to get the required part you want.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Most if them will close shop if it whacks their profit margin.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Magpie_Oz said:


> You can still sell online it seems, you just need to have a B&M shop as well as all.
> 
> Sounds like a good move to me as the benefits of a shop front to us are many. Why should the guy who puts his money into a venue for his customers be put out of business by undercutting from companies that have eliminated the overhead.


What benefit is a B&M store to me? I can with 100% certainity say that GW has made more money out of me through Bits and Kits alone in the last 4 years than it has through their shop 10 minutes drive away. 

I am somebody who doesn't game, doesn't want to attend GW store events and doesn't want to be seen in a B&M store. Is my voice any less relevant than anybody elses? I'm still a GW customer dispite that. 

What I want is to be able to buy minis, buy parts to customise them at a resonable price (i.e. not having to buy an entire kit for 3 parts) and generally mind my own business without having to deal with some neck beards trying to sell me shit i dont want, kids screaming at the top of their lungs or this homegrown bits market that you claim exists as an alternative to bits retailers. And this move hinders that in a major way. They keep on going down this road, I hope they go bankrupt I really do, I hope they crash and fucking burn. There is a demand for bits out there and instead of helping supply it they are trying to stop it completely. That hurts the hobby. Fullstop. If you think stopping a easy supply of bits to the comummuity won't have a negative effect then you are blind frankily.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

That's your choice Jac. I wouldn't get a game at all if not for the local shop and I want it to stay that way.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

That's your choice as well but don't try to make out that B&M's are the only reason that this hobby survives and without them the hobby would die, the world has, thanks to the internet moved past that point about 5 or so years ago. I am a perfect example of a hobbiest that has never needed a B&M to fuel my interest, a B&M didn't get me into the hobby 15+ years ago and it didn't get be back into 3 years ago either. And I wagger my testicles and the ongoing chance of fulfilling the lady friends desires and therefore my continued ability to breath that I'm not the only one in that boat as well.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

I don't get it, I understand the need to help bricks and mortar stores and totally support GW here, but not this way. Hurting internet supply does not help the hobby, giving preferential rates or something to good bricks and mortar retailers would be a better way.

My understanding of european law is that you cannot restrict or interfere with the re-sale of products you supply, however GW conveniently sidestep this by threats of taking away trade accounts.

I do however ask this question - how do they know? surely the retailer just doesn't tell them where the product goes, if they fulfill enough orders then the big orders will be lost in the noise?

I normally stick up for GW, but on this occasion I think this is retarded, people often decry "the end of the hobby" but this slow clamp down is beginning to get ridiculous - as always the only thing that will really dent GW is a good competitor, I am beginning to wish that there was one, one which concentrated on internet sales, bits sales and competitive play, such a company would shit all over GW and its dubious fluffy pretty shite.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

stop panicking people, these trade terms are nothing new, GW do something new every year to make it more difficult for indie traders to carry on trading without being a GW clone,Bricks and Mortar stores are the life blood of the GW hobby, discounted websites on industrial estates are not, B&M stores already get better perks from GW than the ones with only online presence anyway and all this change will do is reduce the number of places you can get a discounted product from GW to those with a genuine high street shop front these are by far the most successful indies anyway, so whats the problem? The rule for breaking down kits or supplying those who sell bits hasnt changed in 6 or more years, as i have said numerous times before GW cant stop anyone selling bits, if they could they would already have done. While ever GW produce products they cant stop someone buying them and breaking it down and selling the parts.While ever people leave the hobby or want a change they cant stem the second hand market. 
Plus who can blame them for trying? they just want a bigger profit margin,whats wrong with that? If indies were willing to tow the price line and stick to selling at RRP rather than under cutting GW maybe GW wouldnt treat them like shit so much, but the indies are not interested in anything other than profit themselves so they undercut to capture sales from GW,I always got the feeling that many of the recent price hikes were simply GW redressing the balance for its stores getting under cut by the indies anyway.


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm actually kind of in the middle ground when it comes to my hobby. I enjoy attending my local GW store and am on a first name basis with the staff. I enjoy the large apocalypse games that are played, find the modelling and painting advice I get from the staff invaluable and also like to do a lot of my painting and modelling in store as I enjoy the company and conversation I get to have with the other customers and staff members, that's why I buy the majority of my stuff, which includes my rule books, codexes, characters, units and vehicles from them. 

I also like the option of being able to buy things online form time to time. I buy bits from many of the bits sites, including B&K, Bits Box and the now closed (thanks to GW prickish trade policies) Battlewaggon Bits. It was also how I manged to buy my one and only super heavy, my Hellhammer, from Wayland, back before GW tightened the screws a few years ago. I'd love to buy more super heavies too, but don't know whether I'll be able to thanks to the high cost of the kits.

Another point I'd like to raise is the fact that to the best of my knowledge, there are no independant retailers in Peth, and I'm willing be corrected if I'm wrong, that offer a gaming space similar to GW's own hobby centres, so really what are they offering the hobby community that an online vender isn't, which is a place to buy Games Workshop products.


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> stop panicking people, these trade terms are nothing new, GW do something new every year to make it more difficult for indie traders to carry on trading without being a GW clone,Bricks and Mortar stores are the life blood of the GW hobby, discounted websites on industrial estates are not, B&M stores already get better perks from GW than the ones with only online presence anyway and all this change will do is reduce the number of places you can get a discounted product from GW to those with a genuine high street shop front these are by far the most successful indies anyway, so whats the problem? The rule for breaking down kits or supplying those who sell bits hasnt changed in 6 or more years, as i have said numerous times before GW cant stop anyone selling bits, if they could they would already have done. While ever GW produce products they cant stop someone buying them and breaking it down and selling the parts.While ever people leave the hobby or want a change they cant stem the second hand market.
> Plus who can blame them for trying? they just want a bigger profit margin,whats wrong with that? If indies were willing to tow the price line and stick to selling at RRP rather than under cutting GW maybe GW wouldnt treat them like shit so much, but the indies are not interested in anything other than profit themselves so they undercut to capture sales from GW,I always got the feeling that many of the recent price hikes were simply GW redressing the balance for its stores getting under cut by the indies anyway.


Well if what you say is true mate then I'm a little bit less worried, however not by much. You see Battlewagoon Bits has recently been forced out of business by GW and no longer are allowed to supply product to their customers, which really points out the fact that GW don't really give a shit about their indy retailers who have brick and mortar stores because the Warstore have a brick and mortar outlet in addition to their online store.

I realize that Battlewaggon Bits and yourself are in different countries, continents even, and there are different trade laws that govern whta can b done in their respective locations, but if they can do it in one place it's only a matter of time before they figure out how they'll get away with it in another and they've certainly already demonstrade their desire and intent to do so.

Not only am I worried about my ability to buy bits for my hobby, but I'm also worried about your very livelihood B&K as you're obviously a keen supporter of the hoppy and want see it grow. I can tell this by the way you talk about the hobby on the boards, the fact you're always donating prize support for our competitions and finally the fact that choose to sell the product that you do, as there are certainly many other products which are totally unrelated to the hobby to sell which would be far more profitable. Still if your not worried then I suppose I shouldn't be.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

tu_shan82 said:


> Well if what you say is true mate then I'm a little bit less worried, however not by much. You see Battlewagoon Bits has recently been forced out of business by GW and no longer are allowed to supply product to their customers, which really points out the fact that GW don't really give a shit about their indy retailers who have brick and mortar stores because the Warstore have a brick and mortar outlet in addition to their online store.


The Warstore is still able to trade, they just can't sell bits. They haven't been forced out of business at all.


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

Magpie_Oz said:


> The Warstore is still able to trade, they just can't sell bits. They haven't been forced out of business at all.


True, I just realized my error when I went back and read my post, they haven't been forced out of business at all, you're right. However a large chunk of their business, I don't know what percentage, has been killed off. I'm willing to bet that at least one person, if not two have now probably found themselves out of the job though, as the need for maintaining that part of the business no longer exists. And even if they haven't lost their job, they've probably had their hours cut severely.

The main point I was trying to get across, however, by bringing up the Battlewaggon Bits example, is that they've been able to shut down bits sales out of North America, so by that logic other bits sellers, in other pats of the world, might be as safe as B&K seems to think. This is just my own opinion however, and I'm not trying to say B&K is wrong at all, as he would be in a position to know better than I. I'm probaly just being paranoid i guess, but paraphrase Chopper Reid, just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean it isn't true.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Double blow for me, this news and now just found out my local store manager has quit and I was only just getting comfortable going back to the shop. It seems all this effort by GW is pushing people into going with alternatives. If GW isn't going to support online bit stores and expects people to buy full box sets just for a couple of bits then they must be nuts. 

I've avoided using non GW parts, it's just the way I learnt the game at my local store in Blackpool, now however if GW ain't supporting their own stores (closed half the week and making stores so small) then I have no reason for not going to my local games club and begin to adopt non gw bits and models.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Pretty much the same here WOT, except without the store part. If GW are going to become increasingly hostile to certain parts of their customer base I'll start using 3rd party parts. I haven't up untill now for a variety of reasons, one of which was a loyality to the product amd the image. Since GW seems intent on clamping down faster than a nuns legs for lent I'm throwing that policy out the window. I bought some Max Mini stuff last week and you know what it's fucking awesome stuff, easily the same if not better than GW's, a little cheaper and they didn't penalise me for living in NZ. If GW doesn't want us using bits services then they shouldn't be surprised if there is a increase in the amount of their minis showing up on the web with 3rd party parts. Especially after the chapterhouse trial and their inability to burn that place to the ground.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Sad fact GW fail to take into account is that the traditional 'shop' is on the decline. The idea of a quaint little hobby store in the high street, while romantic and ideal, falls flat in todays commercial world. Unless you turn yourself into a giant such as Wayland, it is really an uphill battle, one most people wanting any sort of lifestyle are unlikely to pursue.

Hobby stores are not the only way to enjoy the hobby. Most areas have gaming clubs and venues to attend to play. Personally, I rarely venture into a store nowadays, but do have fond memories of hanging out in an indie in my youth on the high street - until he went bankrupt a few years later....


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

slaaneshy said:


> Sad fact GW fail to take into account is that the traditional 'shop' is on the decline. The idea of a quaint little hobby store in the high street, while romantic and ideal, falls flat in todays commercial world. Unless you turn yourself into a giant such as Wayland, it is really an uphill battle, one most people wanting any sort of lifestyle are unlikely to pursue.
> 
> Hobby stores are not the only way to enjoy the hobby. Most areas have gaming clubs and venues to attend to play. Personally, I rarely venture into a store nowadays, but do have fond memories of hanging out in an indie in my youth on the high street - until he went bankrupt a few years later....


I'd say _some_ shops are having issues. Good shops support clubs, organize their own evens and do things to get people in the door. I know of one in Watertown, NY, and the one I play at in Kalispell, MT. 

That isn't to say they still can't fail, as it can still happen anyways, but the ones who seem to do the best are the ones who engage the customers in more than just buying stuff. Plus they don't rely on just GW to carry them either. 

The one in NY was also a comic book shop that also sold movies, toys, collectables, TCGs, Reaper minatures, 40k and Fantasy stuff and sponsored gaming groups as well.

The one in Kalispell balances it's income through Warmachine, Hordes, 40k, Fantasy, MtG and a few board games.

And both are doing -fine-.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

I don't understand this, as numerous GWs here in Southern England have stopped all gaming nights and are instead handing the gaming side over to local clubs and endorsing ones which have official affiliation. So no one really bothers going to GW anymore unless its kids going for introductory games or painting lessons. 

Yet now they seem to be in denial about how shop floors are in steep decline on local highstreets, as everything shifts towards online retailing. As a Town Planning student I can tell you the city centres of the near-future will be dedicated towards leisure activities, fast food/drink outlets and farmers markets vs supermarkets. Retail would've shifted almost entirely to the online domain, at the most a very limited existence on the high street. 

Businesses need to adapt and adjust to this trend or they will simply not survive. GW seem to moving backwards rather than adapting like computers and electronics industries.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I think they are getting incentives from the government for helping with the local retail sector, since it's in such a decline the government is trying all sort of things.


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## Hesky (Aug 26, 2009)

The store you actually see featured in that video above is actually "Brimstage Forge" Wargame Store on the Wirral in the North-West (Cheshire/Merseyside) and despite living at least 20 minutes away by car I consider it my friendly local gaming B&M store that has really rekindled my passion for Wargaming. People need to understand now that Games Workshop are a business and they are out to make money but regardless of their motives for these changes I see them in a positive light.

Wargaming to me, as a hobby has always been much more fun and interesting in a dedicated environment such as this store. If these changes by GW would prompt other retailers across the UK, Europe or anywhere else in the world to create an environment like the Wargame Store for other like-minded players it really can be a positive spin on the whole situation.

I gave up the wargaming hobby years ago due to several reasons I wont bore you with but one of the most prominent was a lack of opponents and the consequential motivation gained only from interaction with other gamers.

Stores like this one would serve as a near-perfect template for internet retailers wishing to continue doing business with GW. The staff are friendly, non-pushy gamers themselves who aren't driven by a disposition to sell you products at any cost. It’s the kind of relaxing atmosphere I remember back in the 90’s in a GW store and one that reminds me why I love this hobby.

If these changes move other internet retailers in the direction of the Wargame Store then maybe it’s a good thing for the hobby in general. The store and new friends I have met at Brimstage have really brought a feeling of nostalgia to a veteran gamer such as myself and I wouldn’t swap it for all the easy internet trading in the world. 
I do appreciate there are those people out there who have different views on the hobby and I am only expressing my own opinion about how I think it could benefit people much like myself who really thrive in this kind of environment. I therefore apologise in advance for the people my views will likely upset but please remember it is only my humble opinion in an attempt to bring something positive to the table.

I will be making every effort to point out to Dave Ingram (The gent in the video) that he has finally made it in the big time world of wargaming by reaching the eyes and ears of the exalted members of the Heresy Online forums..

Hesky


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

Thing is, not all online stores are in a postion to open a B&M store, some run the bussiness as a part time operation.
I know a couple who run a online shop, and they also attend wargames shows around the UK, and the odd show in europe, the wife has health issues, and the husband wokrs full time in his main jobs, so are not in a postion to open a B&M store, so the changes will probaly put them out of business.
Now ive seen a few post here saying we should surport our local GW/FLGS, but what if a gamer/colletor lives in a place with no games shop, or have health issues and are confined to there home and they only buy stuff online, there choices of getting a good affordable price has just been cut right down by the new T&C's/
one last thing though, how many years will it be before GW stop any B&M store selling kits/rules online, theyve already stoped em selling ebay, its just something to think about.


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## Hesky (Aug 26, 2009)

Yes Fynn,

I absolutely see what you are saying and I am not saying I agree wholely with the changes they are making I am just looking for the bright side. I would say to that couple though that in business few people who put all there eggs in one basket survive long. Do they stock other game systems such as Warmachine, FOW, Malifaux, Bolt Action etc?

The proprietor of the Wargame Store works by the premise of stocking many different games and models and ensuring that he restocks regularly and fervently and he also does quick mail order turnarounds for those people who do order by his internet store. Whilst not absolutely ideal for everyone he is still able to offer the 10% affordable discount to his customers without hiking up those mail prices as he runs the shop as both a store and base of operations for his internet business.

I have seen it work and I have to say its absolute clockwork and a lesson to other retailers that this kind of duality is the future of the business for independent retailers.

I am not the fan boy of Games Workshop I once was and I am much more likely to buy PP or Battlefront miniatures these days but I can understand GW wanting to cut out the breaking down of their products and reselling them as individual pieces even if I dont fully agree with how they are going about it.

If anyone out there is worried they are going to lose a well-priced reliable internet retailer I would say to check out the Wargame Store. I live 20 mins away from that store but I have ordered stuff for delivery during busy work weeks and everything has always arrived promptly and in good order.

Some good points though Fynn and I think GW would do well to take a leaf out of Privateer Press' standing operating procedure manual...


Hesky


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

theyve been selling GW for about 20 years, and theyve treud over lines, but get no intreste, especialy at game shows with other traders seliing other systems, there known for selling GW both new and 2nd hand stuff, and thats what there custemers buy from em.
As for the stoping of selling bits, all thats gona do is to encourage players to trade amonst thereself even more on the verious forums as well as the Fasebook groups that are now appearing.
But the question is, how long before B&K (no disrepest intended), and other bit sellers that are still going, finds himself being screwed over by GW as he is a bit seller


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

fynn said:


> theyve been selling GW for about 20 years, and theyve treud over lines, but get no intreste, especialy at game shows with other traders seliing other systems, there known for selling GW both new and 2nd hand stuff, and thats what there custemers buy from em.
> As for the stoping of selling bits, all thats gona do is to encourage players to trade amonst thereself even more on the verious forums as well as the Fasebook groups that are now appearing.
> But the question is, how long before B&K (no disrepest intended), and other bit sellers that are still going, finds himself being screwed over by GW as he is a bit seller


I will be here until they pry my clippers from my cold dead hand


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

careful they may send a C&D for useing there clipers in your clold dead hands.............lol.
So how does the 3rd party reselling affect you with reguards to selling bits then?


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

fynn said:


> careful they may send a C&D for useing there clipers in your clold dead hands.............lol.
> So how does the 3rd party reselling affect you with reguards to selling bits then?


I use very expensive German made clippers, GW clipper wouldnt last a month in my office. As i have stated before you can never stop the supply of bits as long as gw are producing kits and the customers want to convert or repair a model.


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## Hesky (Aug 26, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> I use very expensive German made clippers


Ooooooooh which ones?


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I use knippex clippers, they normally last about a year before the springs go.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Well, in my case, i have decided to use Scibor parts to flesh out my T-Sons, as there is now no chance of seeing plastic T-Sons and i will use Scibor to flesh out my Noise Marines as well, again there is no chance to seeing plastic Noise Marines.

But onto what GW is doing, it seems that GW are oblivious to the trend world wide that frontline B&M stores are on the way out.

Now i can't say for all stores but at one point in Australia, GW had over 130 indie stores selling their product, now that is above 80 stores. For various reasons 50 or so outlets that GW used to have, have gone.

But just how GW is going to go about shutting down the 2nd/3rd party online bits market will be difficult, unless they can get online auction sites like EBay to ban selling GW products will be difficult as EBay earns money in commissions of those sales, EBay would be quite right to expect fiscal compensation from GW.

I see this as another bad move.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I am pretty sure this is how it has been in the USA for a while now, to open or have a trade account you must have a B&M. Warstore is a good portion of why half those rules exist lol.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I have to disagree with those who think bricks and mortar stores are a dying breed, stores will always be relevant,and in the UK at least many high street retailers are reporting growing numbers of customers returning to stores because buying online is pretty dull,shopping is more than just about buying an item,there is the social aspect, its about making a day of it,its about a cheeky bacon sandwich and a pint or a coffee and a cake,its about discovering new stuff, seriously for anyone who thinks online only is the future of this hobby really needs to visit a well stocked hobby shop and smell the flock, you will get more inspiration to paint/model/game/read from ten minutes in a decent hobby store than weeks trawling the net. People forget that this hobby relies on having other people to play against and generally even that simple thing is facilitated better in person at stores and clubs, even stores with no tables will have people with links to gaming groups and clubs that have zero presence on the net. GW is right to push the store model,GW doesnt need to "move with the times" they are the largest manufacture and retailer of wargames on the planet, pretty much every other fantasy/fiction based wargames company owes them at least a thankyou for creating and building the market they are part of and they did that with little shops and cool models.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Certainly some areas of the high street do see good trade and expansion, but I'm not seeing that in this sector. Unless GW start selling coffee and bacon butties, I do not believe their B&M model will survive much into the next decade without a significant injection of funds to keep it afloat - keeping cost high and turning new players off as their competitors sell cheaper products.
A ot of gaming groups do have an online presence or forum, where games are arranged, hobby ideas discussed etc.
I hope the B&M does survive, the best place to pick up the hobby and really get into it is right there, i'm just not convinced that it will survive outside of super giant stores such as Wayland, whos business model is contributing to destroying the smaller shops as much as anything else.


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## WarGameStore (Jun 24, 2013)

As the "presenter" (and I use the term loosely!) of the youtube vid at the the start of this thread, I thought I'd throw in my view.

We opened a small web store 10 years ago and a small Bricks and Mortar retail outlet nearly 4 years ago. We pick up views from people who come to the store and it mirrors some of whats already been posted. 

People who come to our store say they prefer to shop with us rather than online because its a better experience overall. They can browse the physical store in a way you just can't online. They get to meet people and play in our gaming centre. They can pick up tips from others in the store, attend instore demos, join our gaming club or just stand around chatting to other gamers. 

I think its less about the sales channel and more about whether we, as retailers, are any good at what we do. In the last 10 years any number of webstores and b'n'm stores have come and gone and I'm sure the next 10 years will be the same. From the comments people make to me, they seem to like old fashioned shops and want to carry on using them.

So we'll be around as a place where people can come and shop, mingle, game and whatever else for as long as they want us to be.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

:goodpost:

This times 10. 

The B&M shop, "outdated" as some like to suggest, still offers advantages that online trade cannot. I am happy to pay the extra, if that is what is needed, to ensure that places like the Wargamestore stay open.

Thanks so much for popping by and adding a point of view we rarely get on the Internet, the one from the people actually involved.


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## WarGameStore (Jun 24, 2013)

As you mention prices, we offer the same prices in the store as we do online. I don't want to to be seen as hijacking this thread to advertise the store or the website but am always prepared to contribute a view based on the feedback I get from the many people that visit us.

Hesky posted some very positive stuff earlier in this thread, which is great to read as what he describes is exactly what we set out to do with the store.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

WarGameStore said:


> As you mention prices, we offer the same prices in the store as we do online. I don't want to to be seen as hijacking this thread to advertise the store or the website but am always prepared to contribute a view based on the feedback I get from the many people that visit us.
> 
> Hesky posted some very positive stuff earlier in this thread, which is great to read as what he describes is exactly what we set out to do with the store.


Ok i get what you are saying and other who point out the social benfit of GW and some B&M stores that offer a venue to do what you have alraedy said.

But i am from the Hobbiest side of things, i am a pure collector, and i can't justify spending a stonking great whack on GW/Indie shel prices here in Aus, let me make the point.

I have been able recently to get 100 x Chaos Cultist for $80.00 Australian from Singapore with free shipping, while GW/Indies are sellin 5 Cultists box set for $14.00 Australian, again i bought a brand new Bretonian Army Book for 8.25 British Pounds including delivery and it arrived 5 days later, and further was i was able to secure a Dark Vengeance Limited Edition for $95.00 Australian from Britian including delivery, Lastly i got my Chaos Space Marine Codex for 26.00 British Pounds including free delivery.

Almost all of this came from EBay. Prior to that i used to get my stuff from [email protected] and i could not at the time fault their service as it fast, purchase to delivery in less than 10 days, that's from Britian to Aus, impressive, then came the embargo.

I wish i could support my local GW/Indie stores but not at the current prices, i will continue to buy product off EBay and bypass the local scene. As i can't justify the obscene mark which is more that 60% than the rest of the world.


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## Me-dea (Mar 10, 2010)

How abbout starting retailers? Just as WarGameStore wrote - they started with online store then oppened b&m some 6 years later. I like physical stores over online too but when someone wants to start selling something they may not have enough money to open a b&m store right away. Ok they may borrow money from a bank but you know that is an expensive option and you may loose more then yours b&m store if you fail in bussines.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Me-dea said:


> How abbout starting retailers? Just as WarGameStore wrote - they started with online store then oppened b&m some 6 years later. I like physical stores over online too but when someone wants to start selling something they may not have enough money to open a b&m store right away. Ok they may borrow money from a bank but you know that is an expensive option and you may loose more then yours b&m store if you fail in bussines.


The problem I have with that is the new starters buy market share by undercutting the traders who have the higher overheads of a B&M.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Magpie_Oz said:


> The problem I have with that is the new starters buy market share by undercutting the traders who have the higher overheads of a B&M.


Pesky capitalism....


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Also remember GW is a major online seller of their own product, and is trying to point more of the online market to their own website, where they make significantly more profit on it. If they cut out Amazon, Ebay, and as many other online sellers of their product, they will achieve more direct profit.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Creon said:


> Also remember GW is a major online seller of their own product, and is trying to point more of the online market to their own website, where they make significantly more profit on it. If they cut out Amazon, Ebay, and as many other online sellers of their product, they will achieve more direct profit.


I can a major flaw in this, what happens if someone has an online company that buys GW product via a liquidator on a global scale, after B&M retailers go belly up, and an online retailer buys that product, GW has no legal leg to stand on, as that contract is between the liquidator and the vendor, they can do whatever i want with that product.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I didnt think of it before but I assume thsi will affect Amazon selling GW products.

Personally speaking I am not against this sort of change. Its always better to have the option fo going to a B&M shop or the web. But I may be slightly biased as I work in an industry providing to B&M retailers


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I didnt think of it before but I assume thsi will affect Amazon selling GW products.

Personally speaking I am not against this sort of change. Its always better to have the option of going to a B&M shop or the web. But I may be slightly biased as I work in an industry providing to B&M retailers


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't think it's a massive change. More stores, more people wandering in, more people playing the game. Bits prices will go up as costs go up and supply decreases, but it's hardly the end of the Bits industry. I see a good bit of money to be made if you own a shopping centre or such.

Midnight


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

MidnightSun said:


> I don't think it's a massive change. More stores, more people wandering in, more people playing the game. Bits prices will go up as costs go up and supply decreases, but it's hardly the end of the Bits industry. I see a good bit of money to be made if you own a shopping centre or such.
> 
> Midnight


More stores, i doubt it, as pointed out before, from November 2011 to July 2013 GW has lost for various reasons approximately 50 Indies in Australia from a height of around 133 to now just over 80.

Not only this but i have gone to many indies in my expanded area and i have noticed that in the last 10 years that GW product is not as great as it once was, the amount of on shelf stock is retracting, and in some cases gathering dust, as other gaming companies like Privateer Press and others have slowly gained market share, and that stalwarts in the Collectable Card Games like Magic, The Gathering, Yuh-Gi-Ho and Pokemon are maintaining their huge core support (in the last 10 years CCG prices have not gone up as much in percentage terms as much as GW).

What GW has forgotten is the core business issue, it is great to have a wealthy global company, with wealthy share holders, but they don't purchase product, that is left to us, the customers, without customers GW is NOTHING PERIOD, and they often forget that.


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