# Eldar Player Discussion - Dealing with assault terminators



## Reign274 (Nov 12, 2010)

How would you deal with TH/SS assault terminators in a Land Raider with Dozer Blades (paired with vulkan (Master-Crafted Thunder Hammers, Twin Linked Flamer/Melta/etc...))?

My personal thoughts on the matter is that...you don't. You simply avoid it with superior mobility, and the unit can't even hold an objective, they're elite. Rendering units such as these is easy for Eldar imo, and nothing in our codex can stand in assault with them for long. I've seen a multiassault on two wraithlords, and they both died in one turn (don't ask me why he was using 2 wraithlords). 

Rendering them useless by being out of range seems the only thing to do, without wasting loads of fire on Bright Lances to them. Which, by my calculations, even if you have 3 bright lances and they have no cover (which is very unlikely, due to either smoke or intellegent inital positioning), you have a 31.5% chance of wrecking it.

My secondary thoughts lean twards sending in fire dragons. The fire dragons, even if they don't wreck the Land Raider (5, assuming no guide/exarch abilities, has a 50% chance of exploding it, 34% chance of wrecking, 34% chance of immobilizing), provide the secondary use of getting the terminators out of the Land Raider. The terminators, despite their rediculus SS invuln, are still easier to take out. Personally, I'd say using a Night Spinner would do this job well (Dangerous terrain rolls has .166 chance of killing, very high chance for one shot on SS Terminators. As well as slowing them down with difficult. This may not be popular decision, but I'm a big fan of the Spinner and the loads of benefits it provides). Also, Bladestorm would...in fact, just shoot as many flippin shots as you can. It diminishes shooting on the rest of the army, but terminators will cease to be a threat. 

So, what do you think?


----------



## TimberWolfA (Jan 12, 2010)

You're essentially asking two questions when you begin to talk about actually killing the Unit instead of avoiding it.
How do I destroy a Vehicle with AV14?
How do I kill TH/SS Termies?

The answer to the first is Fire Dragons, Lances, or anything else you can scrape together that can get a vehicle penetration roll of 15 or greater. However, a third solution exists, discussed below.

The answer to the second is shot volume. Shoot up the Terminators with Dire Avengers, Walkers with pairs of Scatter Lasers, or anything else that can put out 20+ S4+ shots in a turn. Terminators die amazingly fast when you make them make a lot of saves.

Ok, the 'other' answer that I promised is this; Land Raiders are amazingly unimpressive when they're empty. Hang an expendable squad out somewhere and after your opponent gets his Termies out of the LR and assaults your squad and your squad dies, shoot them to pieces and then just ignore the LR for the rest of the game. It can only move 12" and try to shock one of your units/vehicles (oh, and shoot it's rather limited payload).

Ok, just remembered another way to destroy a LR with Eldar, I know folks who swear by using their Wave Serpents as battering rams. You will be assessing S10 hits on the LR by doing so...


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Reign274 said:


> My personal thoughts on the matter is that...you don't. You simply avoid it with superior mobility


This. Sums up the entire Eldar battle philosophy in one sentence. You never strike where the enemy is strong, you strike where he is weak, and with overwhelming force.

Wreck/Immobilise the Land Raider with suicide Dragons/Lances/Twin Prism blasts then ignore the termies while you enjoy outgunning your opponent by approx 550 points (the cost of Vulkan, Raider and 5 Termies). It's your 2k vs his 1500 at that point, which you should have no trouble dealing with.

Failing that, if you absolutely have to engage this unit, get every available unit to open fire at once. I'm talking both Fire Prisms, the Falcon, the Fire Dragons, both Bladestorm Avenger units, and the guns on the Serpents to boot (in the case of my army). If he's still got any models left alive (unlikely) then you can probably beat him to death by assaulting with 10 avengers! :wink:


----------



## Bhaal006 (Apr 11, 2010)

TimberWolfA said:


> Ok, the 'other' answer that I promised is this; Land Raiders are amazingly unimpressive when they're empty. Hang an expendable squad out somewhere and after your opponent gets his Termies out of the LR and assaults your squad and your squad dies, shoot them to pieces and then just ignore the LR for the rest of the game. It can only move 12" and try to shock one of your units/vehicles (oh, and shoot it's rather limited payload).


I think its funny how one of your solutions assumes the marine player is retarded

"oh man there's a squad of completely useless crap over there, i best assault that with my bad @$$ terminators and kill it, or wait i could use them to kill those guys over there that may actually pose a threat to my army, if only i had some kinda of thing that could help me resolve this Dilemma, some kind of organ for thinking. oh well."

The problem with this "diversionary" tactic, is that quite often the ruse is obvious.


----------



## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm with Sethis on this one:

You run the fuck away.

It's what we do. We stay away from trouble and spam s6 shots until something starts to give. It's our solution to damn near everything.


----------



## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

thread moved to 40k Tactics.

CP


----------



## TimberWolfA (Jan 12, 2010)

Bhaal006 said:


> I think its funny how one of your solutions assumes the marine player is retarded
> 
> "oh man there's a squad of completely useless crap over there, i best assault that with my bad @$$ terminators and kill it, or wait i could use them to kill those guys over there that may actually pose a threat to my army, if only i had some kinda of thing that could help me resolve this Dilemma, some kind of organ for thinking. oh well."
> 
> The problem with this "diversionary" tactic, is that quite often the ruse is obvious.


I actually assumed that the Eldar player has successfully avoided engagement into his Turn 3. Even great players eventually agree to get something done with their Assault Termies rather than absolutely nothing all game. As mentioned by others, actually killing an AV14 box and it's contents is time consuming and difficult and better avoided. 

Tactical miniatures is very much like the game of chess, you and your opponent are actively seeking to force one another to spend resources in suboptimal manners, because it happens to be the best option available to you at the time. Besides, heck, even world champs bite on the Poison Pawn once in a while, why the heck wouldn't you offer it? You can do yourself as much of a disservice by overestimating your opponent as you do by underestimating him.


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I would also suggest pathfinders that are guided and dooming the terminators. Lets you be far away and hammer them without reprisal. 

Secondly there are plenty of units I would assault to get rid of them. For example you would hardly ignore fire dragons that could either have/could wreck your ride so they can fire would you?


----------



## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

Seems once you kill the LR the termies are usless since they can only move 6" and still assault, so you could just focus fire the LR then play keep away with the Termies while you deal with the rest of his army and send a few fire prism shots their way every now and then.


----------



## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Focus firing the LR works, but against most LRs you don't need to. It's a source of TL-asscans and that's all most of the time. 4 shots that need 6s to pen us can do damage, but quite frankly we're faster than the damn thing.

Just kill the rest of the army. and melta it if given the chance. If they've only got one LR it's not like it's going to be everywhere, and if they got two then nuking the rest of their army should be easier.

You want to maximize your firepower, and that means targeting things that are scary but easy to kill first.


----------



## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

Thats why I was thinking how a LR is basically only good for moving things cuz it doesn't really have a main gun just the TL Lascannons and the autocannon thing.
BL has longer range so just pop it with BL on your WaveSerpents and your all good.


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Actually same range. Bright lances are crap anyway.


----------



## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

For one game in Saturday's tournament, my Ravager with 1 Disntegrator and 2 Dark Lances did some major damage on a squad od assault termies, allowing my Wyches to tie up and kill the remainder.
In the next, Drazhar and the Incubi forced too many invul saves for them to make enough to live through the second round of cc.


----------



## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Those are decent enough examples, although I shy away from anecdotal in nature "well, this one time..." notions, but it's missing the point. You can just avoid dealing with it. Killing 500 points worth of stuff feels good, but neutralizing that 500 points without firing a shot gives you the ability to deal with the other 1k+ points in the army with the shots you fire.

Plus I probably wouldn't mix and match my ravager armaments that way. You can get your duality in other ways now that the FOC for DE doesn't screw them.


----------



## jopsrav (Jun 18, 2008)

How about an over aggressive response (my favoured tactic, especially against gun line armies :biggrin. 10 foot sloggin warlocks backed up by a farseer with guide and fortune in a wave serpent. Yes you will be squaring up to them with at least an equal points commitment, but it does provide a solid one hit option. I know this does not sound very Eldar but it still sits in the basic foundation of tactics.

You have to use the basics of wave serpent placement so you can assault from inside the transport. Combinations of moving flat out and fortuning the serpent assists this, as does opting for less threaten weapons (No BL saves costs) and vectored engines stop the 4+ vehicle kill on the flat out. If the termies are deployed assault them with fortune/guided warlocks (with enchance) leaving the farseer in the serpent. Should give them over 20 saves to make before they hit back on fortuned 4++. If they are still in the landraider, assault that instead. You should then kill their mobility, and as an added bonus with a wreck result, kill all inside if you have managed to cover all the exit points with a warlock (or even trap them inside on an immobilised result).

James


----------



## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

But... generally those termi's will have libby around. Null Zone and a Psychic Hood rather ruins a seer council's day, does it not? Granted, it might work, but it seems like you're playing to the strength of the other army, not to yours.


Plus... Warlocks on foot? Ew.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

D-Cannon Support Weapon Batteries, FACT


----------



## jopsrav (Jun 18, 2008)

Ha! yeah I know warlocks on foot are probably not going to be in vogue, ever, but I have had some good times using them. Plus they can be a strong line breaker for me against Leman Russ squadrons, or any groups of tanks.

Also runes of warding does pose a threat to null zones and hoods, and seems to be an effective way alone to kill SM librarians. Plus for the extra commitment of a librarian to the situation, it would only cost about 70 points to upgrade the farseer to Eldrad, giving an extra chance to get fortune off, especially if they have only one hood.

Granted the mailed fist approach is not very eldar (unless mounted on jetbikes :wink but it is an amusing alternative!

And Aramoro, I am looking forward to playing around with my new D-Cannon battery!


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

jopsrav said:


> And Aramoro, I am looking forward to playing around with my new D-Cannon battery!


I hold no responsibly for the epic failure of your support weapon, though I will take any credit for any success no matter how marginal. 

I have actually been using them recently to some good effect, bye bye podding Space Wolves, they are hilariously destructive if slightly fragile.


----------



## steelwraith (May 12, 2009)

there are two options for dealing with the land raider
the aformentioned firedragons or ....
3 walkers with 2 bl's each + seer and guide , expensive but reliably gets the job done. u got 1st turn then scout them 5" (not 6) to keep em in seer range and get you into firing range and then lance the crap out of them . goin second them hide them and then emerge and destroy.
the th/ss termi inside i would advise ambushing them with a full squad of banshees + ex and excutioner after dooming them if they get into strike range.
or hose them down with bladestorming DA'S and scatter las walkers (full squad full load out) , throw enough s**t at them and they do go down.

as is the way , battles are always fluid but i have found that these two ways of doin it have netted me the most successes against lr+th/ss termies .
hope that helps


----------

