# Eldar armies



## Lord Ramo (Apr 12, 2009)

I am a new eldar player and can never seem to get the right balance of close combat and shooting units in my army. I am a good space marine player but just can't get the eldar army to work for me. I normally take some shinning spears but every game I have played i have gotten them killed on the first turn when i was about 3 inches away from close combat! I also fail at sitting back and shooting and normally get outflanked and massacered please help!!!!


----------



## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

Instead of trying to find a balance, a lot of eldar players tend to pick one tactic and build their armies to accommodate it. Personally, I have had mediocre use out of my shining spears, I love em but if anyone knows what they can do then they don't last long...


----------



## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

I use Shining Spears on vehicles for the most part. They have lance weapons, after all...
The rest... well, it takes time and practice to figure out what really works for you in an army.
Most people will tell you to use a Farseer, but personally I prefer an Autarch. I gave mine a fusion gun, power sword, mandiblasters, and warp jump generator, and I deep strike him in with the Warp Spiders. Last game I [played them I dropped them 8" from a Whirlwind and blew it to hell, then next turn assaulted a squad of Devastators. Basically used them to wreak hel in the back-field, which caused my opponent to drop his termies back there to deal with that problem instead of what he wanted to do with them.
I don't use much in the way of reserves; just the Warp Spiders.
I find that Eldar need pretty much everything on the field for mutual support.


----------



## Lord Ramo (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks guys. The only unit in my army that does well is my dire avengers. Last game they took out a necron lord 6 immortals 10 warriors and i only lost 4. Thanks for the tips!!!
:grin:


----------



## onlainari (May 10, 2008)

Vrykolas2k said:


> I use Shining Spears on vehicles for the most part. They have lance weapons, after all...


How does lance help at all versus vehicles? It only makes a difference against AV13 and AV14 and even then you can only glance...


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Exarch with a Star lance is Str 8.

and cause enough glances then something will break.


----------



## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Orochi said:


> Exarch with a Star lance is Str 8.
> 
> and cause enough glances then something will break.



Correct.
Then again, I miss the days when a glance could actually mean something.


----------



## aegius (Mar 24, 2009)

If you wander 2-3 wraithlords and an avatar together across the board, you'd be amazed by the amount of shots the rest of your army is saved from. All my opponents concentrate on trying to kill my monstrous creatures instead of capturing/denying objectives. Use this to your advantage and that should be all the CC you need.


----------



## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Don't forget to use you shining spears to _assault_ vehicles. The spears count as Str 6 power weapons that strike against rear armor.

If you are going to build a mechanized army, I would suggest going to The Way of Saim-Hann. Fritz has some good ideas about how to use a mechanized [jetbikes] army. Some of his ideas are unorthodox but they tend to work for him.

Edit: The artwork of the spears actually gives me a decent idea. if you can survive the strikes back shinning spears with a Star Lance Exarch and Hit and Run could do well against Nob bikers. The spears would wound on 3+ (exarch 2+, causing instant death) only allowing the cybork body invulnerable save. The Exarch's wounds would have to be allocated on different models, then the spears' wounds would likewise bypass armor and FNP. The following round would be a massacre for the orks, but you could try to H&R after your assault phase.


----------



## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Eldar are pretty flexible, but you have to design a concept for your army and run with it. You can go with a shooty army with lots of guardians and use your spears for counter-assault, keeping them behind cover or somewhere safe until the enemy assault troops are in range. Wraithlords work well in this type of army and it's typically led by a farseer. Or, you can go with a mobile army with dire avengers and fire dragons in wave serpents and jetbikes, warp spiders, perhaps some kind of assault troops in transports etc. for support. Perhaps with a more static shooting element as well like war walkers or support batteries. In this kind of army the best way to use the spears would be to hop them from cover to cover with turbo-boost and then engage targets of opportunity while supporting your other mobile thrust (with a mobile army you typically attack one flank of their army and then sweep across.)
The point is, figure out a cohesive strategy for your army and then figure out what units you want and what you want their roles to be. Eldar units pretty much need to support each other more so than SM units which are all pretty self-contained and well rounded.


----------



## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

onlainari said:


> How does lance help at all versus vehicles? It only makes a difference against AV13 and AV14 and even then you can only glance...


It's a strength 6 close combat weapon, most tanks have a rear AV of 10.


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

*My 2p.*

What I've been doing in designing armies is starting out doing what everyone seems to think is safe and orthodox, then doing another list doing basically the opposite.

So, for a start, I put together a list with loads of shooty elements (guardians w/ scatter lasers, DA, Farseer with Doom and Guide, Rangers, War Walkers) plus a CC unit or two and FD to balance things out.

My next step was to go with virtually the opposite approach. Jetbike squad, Shining Spears, Hawks, and Autarch w/wings (or on Jetbike), and a Wave Serpent for both my DA and CC unit (Banshees here, probably). Round this out with a few other odds and ends (guardians or rangers to hold the home side down, for example).

What do you get? Two completely usable lists that offer very different play styles.

You could go another rout here, as well, which is the "pound there 'heads in" approach. Lots of vehicles (Falcons, Fire Prisms), heavy firing units (rangers, Dark Reapers), and maybe a mobile unit of DA (that is, with a wave serpent). Add to this, say, a support weapon squad, and you watch the enemy dive for cover... or else.

What most people seem to do (and what I like) is to pick a central tactic, and then round it out with other element. In the no. 1 list, the force is mostly ground based and relies primarily on small weapons fire, with a few units dedicated to picking up CC and vehicle-killing deficiencies in the rest of the force. No. 2 is fast, fast, fast, with the focus on getting in the first and last punch, while probably dodging fire the rest of the time. The last one basically lets the enemy come to you, while leaving the option to lunge forward and take an objective in the last moments of the game with the mobile unit.

This is one of the best and most frustrating features of the Eldar: they are infinately variable, but finding what works can take time. Compare this with, say, a Marine force. SM have versitility, of course, but not to the same extremes as the Eldar. SM units are also fairly good generalists, where as Eldar have few general units at the same level.

In a similar vein, however, Eldar also have one or two trump-card units. Wraithlords and the Avatar, namely. These can help bring things into balance if your force seems to be too focused on one area, as there is little these things can't do serious harm to while also being able to take it.


----------



## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

banshees and Eldrad - nuff said


----------



## onlainari (May 10, 2008)

NecronCowboy said:


> It's a strength 6 close combat weapon, most tanks have a rear AV of 10.


Haha so my point was incredibly valid. Being lance means jack all to their ability to take down vehicles, it's the S6 close combat attacks that do it.


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

onlainari said:


> Haha so my point was incredibly valid. Being lance means jack all to their ability to take down vehicles, it's the S6 close combat attacks that do it.


For most things. S6 (on the charge) lance will still glance on a 6 (fat chance?) for VA14 (EDIT: should read AV12+), but the exarch S8 laser lance will do more than that.

Frankly, I'm leaning towards Hawks for anti-vehicle and SS for nidzilla, etc.. But then, I'm strange.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

spudboy said:


> For most things. S6 (on the charge) lance will still glance on a 6 (fat chance?) for VA14, but the exarch S8 laser lance will do more than that.


S6 can't hurt AV14. S8 needs a 6. Unless Shining Spears have rending or 2D6 pen, which IIRC they don't.


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> S6 can't hurt AV14. S8 needs a 6. Unless Shining Spears have rending or 2D6 pen, which IIRC they don't.


Lance, man. Anything greater than AV12 counts as AV 12.

S6 + D6 to AV 12 for anyting AV12 or better.

p. 32 of 5th ed.

(Edited previous post to reflect this, btw)


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

I know what lance's are mate, I just didn't realise that laser lances had the rule


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> I know what lance's are mate, I just didn't realise that laser lances had the rule


Back to topic, then!

Vypers... anyone?


----------



## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

I've heard a lot of good about vypers and intend to run up to six of them. They can move and shot or move flat out and contest objectives. I've seen them used very well, but their armor is still flimsy. The upgrades I wouldn't take as they increase the cost of the vyper too much. That being said, if I did take any upgrade it would be holofields.

For weapons loadout, I would have either one strong weapon and the catapults (BL, StCan) or a shuriken cannon and either another or a scatter laser. The heavy vypers can move 12" and not lose any shots, but the anti-horde vypers need to only move 6".


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

Underground Heretic said:


> I've heard a lot of good about vypers and intend to run up to six of them. They can move and shot or move flat out and contest objectives. I've seen them used very well, but their armor is still flimsy. The upgrades I wouldn't take as they increase the cost of the vyper too much. That being said, if I did take any upgrade it would be holofields.


I was just poking around over at Fritz's page (Way of Saim Hann) and watched what he does with them. I knew they were good for the speed, but kept them low on my list of favs because they can only pack one big gun, in constrast to War Walkers, which get two.

Then Fritz reminded me that Vypers can create their own cover saves by moving fast. Now, I'm back to the drawing board on them...

Confusion... the bane of collecting Eldar.


----------



## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

onlainari said:


> Haha so my point was incredibly valid. Being lance means jack all to their ability to take down vehicles, it's the S6 close combat attacks that do it.




Yes, except you have more chances of doing damage.
Sure, the laser lance is S6, but don't discount the luck of rolling a 6 and getting a glance when shooting. Then you assault, and there are more chances to do damage/destroy the target.


----------



## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Crimzzen said:


> banshees and Eldrad - nuff said


And yeah this is pretty much all you need to know to win. Eldar basically only have amazing units(besides the troops, and even THEY are good). So you can win with a dartboard-style unit selection against tournament level mehreens.


----------



## kain350 (Mar 12, 2009)

depending on what you wanna do. eldar are mainly used for a hit and run game. ive read alot and i was focused on range with my pathfinders darkreapers and war walkers. after extensive reading hit and run is their best option with their low wounds. it would be best to get in their do some damage then withdraw. remember though eldar units are not well rounded, each unit type is used for a specific reason and that reason only.


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

kain350 said:


> remember though eldar units are not well rounded, each unit type is used for a specific reason and that reason only.


Save for the wanna-be marine DA, but I get the feeling it is their Exarch that determines their role. Double catipults for shooty, shimmershield for CC.

Now that I think about it, I don't really know what DA are best at...


----------



## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

spudboy said:


> Save for the wanna-be marine DA, but I get the feeling it is their Exarch that determines their role. Double catipults for shooty, shimmershield for CC.
> 
> Now that I think about it, I don't really know what DA are best at...



Getting dropped out of Wave Serpents, Bladestorming, then assaulting the following turn...


----------



## kain350 (Mar 12, 2009)

Da's basically depend on how u choose to use ur exarch. if u get the double catapults then shooting with the *BLADESTORM* ability and having the others using range with be ur best option. no for having them going CC u need to equip the exarch with power weapons. DA's are ur only truly well rounded units depending on their exarch and the abilities you give him.


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

kain350 said:


> Da's basically depend on how u choose to use ur exarch. if u get the double catapults then shooting with the *BLADESTORM* ability and having the others using range with be ur best option. no for having them going CC u need to equip the exarch with power weapons. DA's are ur only truly well rounded units depending on their exarch and the abilities you give him.


Pretty much the conclusion I came to, as well. The trick beyond that, I suspect, is making the most of those abilities. They just all seem to fall one step short of being superb, which is no doubt where the other aspects come in.


----------



## yWizePapaSmurfy (Apr 18, 2008)

Fritz is a good source but most of what he does is what I call common sense. Every "trick" he does part of my mindset already and many "tricks" he does are one-timers. (Star Engines to make the enemy think I have a weak flank? Everyone should know that Eldar mobility lets them dictate where they want to fight....

But if you dearly need help Fritz is a good resource for such people who don't see ingenuity.

One thing he hasn't covered yet is the slow charge, which helps a ton vs. a Nidzilla player with Without Number Gaunts that surround their MC so you can't charge the MC. Normal charge would wipe the Gaunts, allowing them to come back and re charge you before you get to charge the 'Fex. Slow charge keeps them on the table till the end of the opponent's turn THEN you get to those annoying Shooty 'Fex.

But I digress, secrets aren't the way of 40k, it's more about meddle vs. meddle. If a person is stunted on what to do, I tell them just finish the game, and will tell them what they possibly did wrong after the game is over. Fritz keeping "secrets" is pretty low, IMO. Course, I'm pretty cynic.

After game discussions are a must, I do fine with my Eldar list, but unsatisfied with skills overall always.

And only two trump units? lol.

I think all the Eldar units are trumps in their specialty areas. 

Heavy armour troops don't like being Doom'd and targetted by Banshees.

Light Armour hates Scorpions and they're torrent of strikes.

No tank save a Monolith likes even just 5 Fire Dragons targetting it.

Etc.


----------



## Wu-Tang-Tau (Apr 2, 2009)

Vrykolas2k said:


> Getting dropped out of Wave Serpents, Bladestorming, then assaulting the following turn...


Those guys are horrific if you attach Elrad to them!!! Last time he cast doom on one of my necron warrior squad and the blade storm wiped out all 10!!!! And fortune really works at saving their bacon when hit by standrd Ap5 weapons that wounds on 3-2+!


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

yWizePapaSmurfy said:


> One thing he hasn't covered yet is the slow charge, which helps a ton vs. a Nidzilla player with Without Number Gaunts that surround their MC so you can't charge the MC. Normal charge would wipe the Gaunts, allowing them to come back and re charge you before you get to charge the 'Fex. Slow charge keeps them on the table till the end of the opponent's turn THEN you get to those annoying Shooty 'Fex.


Slow charge... care to fill us in?


----------



## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Wu-Tang-Tau said:


> Those guys are horrific if you attach Elrad to them!!! Last time he cast doom on one of my necron warrior squad and the blade storm wiped out all 10!!!! And fortune really works at saving their bacon when hit by standrd Ap5 weapons that wounds on 3-2+!




I hear a lot of people singing praises to Eldrad the Dead, but... I don't use him.
Partly because he's dead, partly because I haven't used a Farseer at all since they came out with the Autarch.
Personally, I find psychers to be... more trouble than I like to deal with.


----------



## yWizePapaSmurfy (Apr 18, 2008)

Slow charge - Can't really describe it here well, Vassal I can show 

Looks like a bull's horns, makes it so less guys actually get to fight in combat, then after turn is over they havta pile in again, you're in range of everything to fight back during their turn. Thus the Gaunts die in their turn and now you have free reign to charge those Shootyfexes.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

yWizePapaSmurfy said:


> Slow charge - Can't really describe it here well, Vassal I can show
> 
> Looks like a bull's horns, makes it so less guys actually get to fight in combat, then after turn is over they havta pile in again, you're in range of everything to fight back during their turn. Thus the Gaunts die in their turn and now you have free reign to charge those Shootyfexes.


Remember, now all units that are charged can move 6" to get as many models as possible into combat. With the size of eldar units, I don't see you managing to hold many models out of the assualt.


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

yWizePapaSmurfy said:


> Slow charge - Can't really describe it here well, Vassal I can show
> 
> Looks like a bull's horns, makes it so less guys actually get to fight in combat, then after turn is over they havta pile in again, you're in range of everything to fight back during their turn. Thus the Gaunts die in their turn and now you have free reign to charge those Shootyfexes.


Ah, now I get what you mean. Yeah, this is going to be difficult with the new assault rules, I think. It would require both your own men and the gaunts to be spread long, which is a situation that might not come too often.

As an alternative, I could see how using a combination of pistols and assault could work here... naturally, if you shot at the gaunts, you would have to engage them with at least one model from your unit, but the rest could plunge in after the 'fex just fine (just checked the rules on that).

As an aside, suppose you completely destroyed the gaunts with your pistol attack? Would you then not be able to assault anything?


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

If you shot at something, you must charge it, if you destroy the unit you shot at you cannot charge unfortuneatly.


----------



## Thaylen (Apr 15, 2009)

My personal favorite eldar unit is Pathfinders 10 for 240pts.  They 2+ Save in cover and can camp home objectives. They also basically have better than double rending. (AP1 on 5 or 6 to hit and AP2 on 6 to wound). The possible AP can make them seriously wreck armor 10 or 11 transports in addition to raping infantry. Now add in that they get BS 4 and you have one serious unit.

-Thaylen


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

Rangers moved up to pathfinders are an almost must in my lists for just those reasons. They make Marines scatter (not many Necron players here, so no clue what they'd do...). Sit them in cover near an objective, and fire away. The only problem is when they get into CC (it has happened), they are as good as dead.

Everyone probably wonders for a time over whether to go Rangers or Dark Reapers for ranged weapons. Here was my pro-con list.

Rangers pros:
Upgraded to Pathfinders, they get an easy AP1 shot out of an already great chance to hit and wound.
If you have to move them (say, away from an encrouching swarm of Genestealers), they have pistols to cover their bums.
Fairly cheap for what you get.
I have yet to Infiltrate them, but this might come in handy some day.

Cons:
Don't hit super hard.
Range is long, but not super long.
Armor is worthless... on open terrain or in CC, they're dead.
Sniping weapons not so likely to take down vehicles.

Reapers pros:
Super-long range.
Pretty good punch that is pretty much guaranteed to hit.
AP3, which will take down most things without an inv. save.
S5 means even lighter vehicles need to be careful.
In a squad of 3, they get more shots than 5 rangers.
Armor that actually might save them.
Exarch can be upgraded to Crack Shot, use EML, etc..

Cons:
Cost lots if you trick them out.
Since they are long to begin with, the likelihood of them needing that 3+ armor save is remote.
Long range, yes, but only S5 AP3.

For your buck, I'd say Pathfinders most of the time. Especially now that troops mean so much more!


----------



## Devinstater (Dec 9, 2008)

Pathfinders also wound on a 4+ due to sniper weapons. They have regular rending and pathfinder 5-6 rending.

This means they can put some wounds on MC's easier than reapers.

If I were to have something sit on my objective with poor movement, I'd make it a troop choice with a 2+ save.

Reapers eat foot slogger amrines and Necrons, but thats about it.


----------



## yWizePapaSmurfy (Apr 18, 2008)

spudboy said:


> Rangers moved up to pathfinders are an almost must in my lists for just those reasons. They make Marines scatter (not many Necron players here, so no clue what they'd do...). Sit them in cover near an objective, and fire away. The only problem is when they get into CC (it has happened), they are as good as dead.
> 
> Everyone probably wonders for a time over whether to go Rangers or Dark Reapers for ranged weapons. Here was my pro-con list.
> 
> ...



For your buck, I'd say consider other options.

5th Edition IG Codex called, It said Barrage saves out the wazoo incoming. Good bye Pathfinder Cover Saves.

And in general? Flamers are everywhere now.


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

yWizePapaSmurfy said:


> For your buck, I'd say consider other options.
> 
> 5th Edition IG Codex called, It said Barrage saves out the wazoo incoming. Good bye Pathfinder Cover Saves.
> 
> And in general? Flamers are everywhere now.


Yeah, if I ever played IG. Plus, if that is limited to IG, that's one army out of lots.

Flamers are a concern, if they get that close. Flamers are a bigger threat to line troops, I'd say. Plus, even if flamers are everywhere, there aren't any squads of only flamers.

Or, maybe I'm just a slow learner.


----------



## yWizePapaSmurfy (Apr 18, 2008)

spudboy said:


> Yeah, if I ever played IG. Plus, if that is limited to IG, that's one army out of lots.
> 
> Flamers are a concern, if they get that close. Flamers are a bigger threat to line troops, I'd say. Plus, even if flamers are everywhere, there aren't any squads of only flamers.
> 
> Or, maybe I'm just a slow learner.


Speaking a lil' soon aren't we?

Burnas for Orks

Sternguard can have all Combi-Flamers.


----------



## Crimson_Chin (Feb 20, 2009)

lol. I am equipping the first half of my sternguard all with combi-flamers. I want to see the look on my first opponents face when I drop a ten man half combi-flamer half combi-melta squad and one squad/one tank is dead turn one.

I mean, assuming he doesn't reserve everything of course XD.


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

yWizePapaSmurfy said:


> Speaking a lil' soon aren't we?
> 
> Burnas for Orks
> 
> Sternguard can have all Combi-Flamers.


So it seems. My stupid, let me show it to you! :blush:

Of course, this is also the same reason I'm wanting to deck out a Wraithlord with dual flamers. Toasty.

So, OK. Supose, yeah, rangers are not your thing due to the whole template and barrage deal. Let's get some alternatives out there, then.

We already looked at DR. For the points (assuming you still wanted long range firepower that would both A. hurt and B. hit), what else have we got?

Falcons are tempting, if expensive, but unfortunately have BS3. You could equip them simply, with a Shuriken cannon, for example, and keep things reasonable, but the temptation to go for holo fields would be on the large side...

Any other suggestions here?


----------



## yWizePapaSmurfy (Apr 18, 2008)

For long range fire support?

Fire Prisms
War Walkers
Wraithlords
Falcons (Yes BS 3...Still pretty sweet if you keep them back out of Melta range.)

Scoring Troops?

Guardian Jetbikes 
Dire Avengers in Wave Serpents


----------



## Rounds51stbrigade (Apr 19, 2009)

when i used to use my eldar i always found the best tacktic was just to be fast use your banshes and scorpions large squads and get int there straight away 

i always found if i was doing this to also have shinning spears and a fire prisum grav take in there as this would distract alot of the fire from my enemy to leave the banshees and scorpions free to get in there and do the real damage


----------



## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

spudboy said:


> Yeah, if I ever played IG. Plus, if that is limited to IG, that's one army out of lots.
> 
> Flamers are a concern, if they get that close. Flamers are a bigger threat to line troops, I'd say. Plus, even if flamers are everywhere, there aren't any squads of only flamers.
> 
> Or, maybe I'm just a slow learner.


I wouldn't worry TOO much about the new IG, I have been spending some time with their codex recently and there are only a few things that really need concern certain types of Eldar armies. 

Pro Tip: A typical 5-6 man Fire Dragon suicide squad will drop a squad of 3 Russ of any configuration in one turn of shooting. Its almost sad how you can remove 550+ points with less than 200. Although if the IG player has even 1 squad of Russ's numbering 3 then he deserves it.


----------



## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

Underground Heretic said:


> I've heard a lot of good about vypers and intend to run up to six of them. They can move and shot or move flat out and contest objectives. I've seen them used very well, but their armor is still flimsy. The upgrades I wouldn't take as they increase the cost of the vyper too much. That being said, if I did take any upgrade it would be holofields.


Everything you say here is true..just don't *ever* give them Holo-Fields.


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

Ragewind said:


> I wouldn't worry TOO much about the new IG, I have been spending some time with their codex recently and there are only a few things that really need concern certain types of Eldar armies.
> 
> Pro Tip: A typical 5-6 man Fire Dragon suicide squad will drop a squad of 3 Russ of any configuration in one turn of shooting. Its almost sad how you can remove 550+ points with less than 200. Although if the IG player has even 1 squad of Russ's numbering 3 then he deserves it.


Muhahaha... looking forward to seeing more IG on this side of the pond...



Ragewind said:


> Everything you say here is true..just don't *ever* give them Holo-Fields.


Because they're too expensive, or because the squads can distribute the hurt?


----------



## aegius (Mar 24, 2009)

because they are too expensive


----------



## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

They also do nothing. Virtually any damage result on a vyper stops it from shooting, which is its only real job. Usually, when you roll two damage results you will see two things you don't like.

It's different with a transport. For that, all you care about is that it's alive and mobile. When people are getting glancing hits on a falcon you don't mind if it gets shaken, stunned or loses a gun because it's got spirit stones anyway and it isn't really for killing things with. Those results are all bad news for a vyper.


----------



## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

Someguy said:


> They also do nothing. Virtually any damage result on a vyper stops it from shooting, which is its only real job. Usually, when you roll two damage results you will see two things you don't like.
> 
> It's different with a transport. For that, all you care about is that it's alive and mobile. When people are getting glancing hits on a falcon you don't mind if it gets shaken, stunned or loses a gun because it's got spirit stones anyway and it isn't really for killing things with. Those results are all bad news for a vyper.


Well said

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.


----------



## yWizePapaSmurfy (Apr 18, 2008)

Someguy said:


> They also do nothing. Virtually any damage result on a vyper stops it from shooting, which is its only real job. Usually, when you roll two damage results you will see two things you don't like.
> 
> It's different with a transport. For that, all you care about is that it's alive and mobile. When people are getting glancing hits on a falcon you don't mind if it gets shaken, stunned or loses a gun because it's got spirit stones anyway and it isn't really for killing things with. Those results are all bad news for a vyper.



Shoot my Vypers then, you aren't shooting the stuff that's killing you? Also as long as they're there blocking the Land Raider or what have you, you cant move in the direction I'm blocking, so onto the Shooting Phase, Objective achieved! Stuck Land Raider for a turn in return for shots off my other Mech/Jetbikes/what have I?

My transports are kitted to help with spam of Mass mech, which SM/Tau/other Eldar/CSM/SoBs/new IG do A LOT. Would like to see them able to support my firepower rather than stunned a lot of the time so i keep the Wave Serpents relatively conservative in their roles.

Ah nvm, saying why Holos are a waste on Vypers.

I think Holos are a waste on a lot of things save a offensive suicide drop Falcon. Fire Prism should be using Cover and range to help it out and a rear line Falcon should be doing kinda the same.


----------



## Lord Ramo (Apr 12, 2009)

Ok guys cheers for all the comments i have playtested a few eldar armies and will post them up here. So far one army in particular has preformed well for me and i will probably use that in future.


----------



## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

yWizePapaSmurfy said:


> Shoot my Vypers then, you aren't shooting the stuff that's killing you? Also as long as they're there blocking the Land Raider or what have you, you cant move in the direction I'm blocking, so onto the Shooting Phase, Objective achieved! Stuck Land Raider for a turn in return for shots off my other Mech/Jetbikes/what have I?


Bu, bu, but, these are Eldar! They never sacrifice!

Really, you've got the problem in a nutshell. Eldar, like any army, has just as much right to sacrifice as anyone. Plus, cheap, highly mobile units like a vyper that can create a road block make this tactic a little more than tempting.

Of course, the flip side is... if that's all they're good for, couldn't those points work better someplace else?



Lord Ramo said:


> Ok guys cheers for all the comments i have playtested a few eldar armies and will post them up here. So far one army in particular has preformed well for me and i will probably use that in future.


Waiting eagerly...


----------

