# Imperial Guard: Mortars



## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

OK, so my previous experience with Mortars hasn't been all that great, however, I have been under the impression that they were G36 S3 weapons. Upon review of the Guard Codex I find they are G48 S4 weapons (and they cause pinning).

So... is it worth having a squad of three Mortars set up out of LOS and pummel your opponents - with the multiple barrage rules you might get a decent amount of S4 hits and also, correct me if i'm wrong, but you take cover saves based on the direction from the centre of the blast marker with barrages so you wouldn't get the 4+ cover save from shooting 'through' units.

They are pretty cheap and you could put one in your command hq squad, stick them behind terrain and give out leadership safely, whilst still being able to hit back.

Any thoughts?


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Indirect fire does not allow a cover save for intervening models, units or terrain. BUT, because you are not shooting directly at the enemy it does not allow you to deduct the BS of the shooting unit from the scatter range, so your aim might be a long way off.


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## KellysGrenadier (Jul 13, 2008)

I'd use 'em in a foot-slogging Guard army. However, I'd only use them against Eldar, Tau, Guard, Tyranids, and maybe Orks. 

Space Marines are, in my opinion, too hard To Wound with them, and their Save will more than likely see them survive anyway. Even if a shell manages to kill a Marine, their slightly-better-than-average Leadership will probably keep them from being Pinned.

Horde armies (Tyranids, Orks), or armies with a lot of GEqs (Guard, Eldar) will be affected by them. 

Luck will be an element, however. You don't want the 2D6 result to be that high with a mediocre BS.


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## Morgal (Sep 26, 2007)

I could not take a squad of them but figured 10 points was cheap to stick on my HQ.
As mentioned this keeps him safe.

I won't lie though it's lucky to kill more than 1-2 marines a game.
It does mess with foes though as people don't like templates droping on them from affar. But vs hordes it is awsome...and they really really don't like it.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Darklove; true, the BS isn't taken into account with scatter but i'm pretty jammy with my scatter dice rolls 

Kellys' - very valid points - definately not a MEQ-killer but then that's why He-on-high thought to grace us with Battlecannons :biggrin:

Morgal: you'd need to kill approx. 5 basic Marines to make their points cost back in a game; probably not going to happen, I agree. But combined with a constant barrage from 2-3 Basilisks that's a lot of LOS-ignoring templates dropping on an army.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Morgal is talking about a single mortar taken with the command HQ, not a mortar squad.

Some people like to hide their HQ behind something solid, giving the morale bonusses to troops nearby. If the unit had any of the direct firing heavy weps it wouldn't be able to fire from this position, but it can use a mortar.

As KellysGrenadier mentions, these guys are good against some armies but not against others. A single heavy wep on a unit that probably wasn't going to do much shooting anyway is not much of a gamble, but a squad of them might be too far to go.


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## Flakey (Sep 24, 2008)

My friend uses them because he is bad at judging ranges. So he opens up with a mortar platoon first to correct for when he fires his basilisks.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

It's different now, from what I understand of 5th; you guess distance but it doesn't have to be spot-on - as long as it's between the min-max ranges you're ok and can place the blast anywhere on the unit, however, when rolling for scatter the BS of the firing unit isn't taken into account, i.e. it will scatter 2D6.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Guard mortars are ok...........if the enemy is NOT equipped with umbrellas or any kind of armour, even if its just a thin waterproof jacket, otherwise its as effective a barrage as a light drizzle


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## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

Actually, if you COMMIT to mortars, they can wreak havoc on infantry armies.

Use one squad to "find the range" as it were.
Then have two more (from the same Heavy Weapons Platoon) light them up.


Worthless against vehicles, of course, but we're talkign about one Heavy Support Choice.

For added fun, use the Platoon HQ's mortars to do the range finding for your guess weapons- and then pulverize them with all three.


Whether they get their armor saves or not, if you make them take a lot, they're going to fail a few.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I've fought a drop troops army with 2 Heavy Weapon Platoons, each of which had 3 squads of 3 Mortars, and a heavy Bolter in the command squads, Mortars, Special Weapon Squads, and a Lascannon Tank Hunter squad were the support squads.

I have a mobile marine army - 3 Jump Infantry, 6 Rhino's with Tacticals in, 2 Tank Hunter Dreadnoughts, and Drop Podded Ironclad, Land Raider, Vindicator and Predator Destructor with Anti Infantry Loadout. I feel I have an easy game ahead of me. 

first turn, I lose the Land Raider, to the first shot of the game, the Sharpshooter Lascannon on the Veterans killing it, and a Terminator inside. Vindicator gets destroyed by Lascannon battery. Two Rhino's destroyed by combination of Mortar (deadly accurate this guy, although he was a Carpenter, so that made him excellent at judging where he would place the shots. Without Scatter, he would have hit every tank.

I move closer, Vanguard squads, and the assault squad leaping over to hide behind cover, near enough to Assault his Command squad, and two Mortar squads.

Not much shooting - Bolt Pistols, Storm Bolters on Rhino's and the Lascannon =( on the dreadnoughts killing a Special Weapon Team, and a Platoon Command. His second turn sees his troops drop in - about 6 out of the 15 he had were still falling out of the Valkyries. Storm Troopers, x2, with double plasmagun, right behind the Vanguard. Uh-oh. The rest were ordinary Guards Platoons, Meltaguns, Plasmas and Flamers. Oh bugger.

Pop Pop Pop go the Rhino's, Dreadnoughts and Predator, the Veterans, Lascannon Battery, and Autocannon Sentinels getting them. Leaves them ripe for the Mortars.

There's only so much Marines can take - 15 Mortars isn't one - when backed by 6 Guards units armed to the teeth, you see them begin to fall. Every Turn, I would get an ever growing amount of Mortars as he passed his Reserves rolls.

I gave up after Turn 4 - with no more proper scoring units. Luck was with him, but against such a player, I doubt I could have won. 

Yes - Get just one Mortar - against Shooty armies, my Marines tend to bunch up into tight balls, unless they have lots of Blast/Flamer weapons. Perfect Target for your Single Weapon. Your opponent will groan as an 'invisible' unit will realise what he's done.

However, for 10pts, I'd take a couple of Storm Bolters for Veterans/Storm Troopers/Platoon Command squads.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Cole Deschain said:


> Actually, if you COMMIT to mortars, they can wreak havoc on infantry armies.
> 
> Use one squad to "find the range" as it were.
> Then have two more (from the same Heavy Weapons Platoon) light them up.
> ...


definitely true. mortars are not a weapon you can afford to be ambivalent when purchasing, you either need to buy a bunch, or none. that is because they are one of the few weapons that become more useful when you have more, due to the barrage. 

they, much like the real world, are not meant to be an answer to all of your problems, but need to be mixed with weapons that compliment them. 
Even with their difficulties against heavily armored opponents, they will still cause disruption and casualties. Pairing them with bassies, or leman russes makes for a killer combo, the mortars thin out any infantry, and the bassie/russ demolishes armor/MEQ. Combined arms! F*@< yeah!


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## onyxhope (Nov 14, 2008)

For my 2c I am starting to build out my IG droop army with a fair bit of morters 1 @ HQ, 2 support squads(spendy but as pointed out on this thread it is a bit of all or nothing with morters), 3 in my infantry Platoon's(one command squad in A platoon, one in a squad of each platoon). My question is I was planning to go for sentinel Scout Fast attack squads to round out my +1500 builds and I was wondering if anyone here had a few thoughts on the tactical placement of the sentinels both on when to bring them in to play(improved com's on a few) and where to focus them to force the enemy to make my morter teams more effective.
thanks for the input.


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## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

Yeah as said before, having just a minute presence of mortars isn't all that useful. I had been wondering about their effectiveness in the game because as I like to play with things like artillery in Dawn of War. I use it all the time as a sort of shield to walk my assaulting forces forward through enemy positions or to keep pesky hostile infantry from going places I don't want it.

Nobody wants to go out in the rain if the rain consists of explosives. But I confess I've yet to see how it all really plays out in the tabletop world just yet.


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## onyxhope (Nov 14, 2008)

well as soon as my force has a few rounds in I will let you know how the tactic works.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Your best way of getting the use out of Mortars is practising your guess ranges. Have an area about 48" long, and throw a dice the length. 

Guess the range, then measure.

It's good practice, and will really help you out, if you accurately judge the ranges. Be sneaky.

Even if you know the enemy is out of range, fire your weapons at the Maximum distance (36", I think?). Put the template at that, measure the scatter, and from there, with a few quick calculations, you can get within 1-2 inches of them when they go through the area you guessed at.

If you make your own tables, be _real_ sneaky, and put markers down - for example, if playing on a non modular tabletop, then you could say "that tree is 36" away from that Building." etc.


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## onyxhope (Nov 14, 2008)

Actually, a good friend (who is scary good at things like this) pointed out that humans guess distance better if you estimate half the distance three time and take the mean and double that..turns out we are better subconsciously at figuring half ranges then full ranges..from practice with other systems that use similar mechanics I have to say it works out pretty dead on. though the dropping an objective or two as Kingdom of Heaven style painted rocks to mark a "cross this I dare you" rage is not a bad idea and one I plan to use a time or two. Nothing says take and hold objective like a fist full of mortar damage dice.


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## Morgal (Sep 26, 2007)

For sentinel placement it depends so much on what they have.
flamer sents should be droper or flanked in.
autocannon/las cannon may set up at the start and use scout move.

depends on what you want.

I like mortars vs my most hated foe...nids. I really shoudl take more.


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## onyxhope (Nov 14, 2008)

I agree the placement is all about load-out. I am still putting my main force together but the plan is HQ support Sentinels as Long Rage cover fire(2 mars and one Armageddon), 2 close range trio's (2 Catachan's and one Mars) and maby another long range group to throw in when I have games I need to fill points on. Even with options Sentinels and Mortars should compliment each other I hope with enough points free to drop a good number of bodies on the board to grab objectives.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Vaz said:


> Your best way of getting the use out of Mortars is practising your guess ranges. Have an area about 48" long, and throw a dice the length.
> 
> Guess the range, then measure.
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure you don't have to guess the range any more with barrage weapons; you declare which unit you are firing at, then measure and if they are in range you roll to hit as normal blast but you don't minus the BS of the firing unit.

Haven't got the BRB with me to check tho...


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

Yep, no guessing required, just pick a point, if its within its range (remember some guess weapons have a minimum range too) than roll for scatter.


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## Justicar Auarilius (Nov 29, 2008)

It is only worth it if you take them as a support squad for an HQ. Even though you will pay slightly more for them than if they were a heavy weapons slot, that heavy weapon slot is to valuable in a guard army and always should be filled with a tank (i always max 3 tanks when im playing 1500 or above) But as a cheap support battery by your HQ they are priceless.

Only one concern. if you are playing an army that likes to DS/Infiltrate then watch leaving them by your cc. Normally that is the first target for a player facing guard. And leaving both of those vulnerable yet valuable squads close together is worth losing a squad to your enemy


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