# Worst Unit in your Codex?



## Silens (Dec 26, 2010)

For me, this'll be Necrons and Blood Angels. Worst unit? 

I think it might be Flayed Ones, for Necrons, from my perspective... Especially if you consider how expensive the models are (£$€). They're the same price as Warriors to lose the gun and gain two attacks, but for a close combat unit... They're slow and squishy with an initiative of 2. They don't get power weapons or any kind of special attacks, just basic ones. 

From Blood Angels? I've not used the full range of units from the BA codex so I don't think I could offer a fair judgement.

What about you? Tell us what your Codex's worst unit is and why you think this is so.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Dark Angels is kinda difficult as our Codex is just a lot of units that are 'ok'. Assault Squads are pretty bad, the Whirlwind is pretty bad, but I can't think of anything that's complete tripe.

Oh, actually, Asmodai and Chaplains are both pretty awful.

Midnight


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

For tau it would probably be sniper drones- their very expensI've, have lost their rail rifles, and tau just dont need snipers


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Mandrakes in the DE codex and Sniper Drones in the Tau Codex.


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## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

Mutilators or Fabius bile from csm

Daemons don't really have 'bad' units, everything has a very specific application so it's difficult to say. Maybe the slanesh rotfchariots, they're pretty bad in comparison to everything else.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Scouts or Asmodai. 

Scouts are useless because they're completely outclassed by our dirt cheap Tactical squads, and the option for Deathwing and Ravenwing troops. I'd actually prefer it if they cost slightly more but retained their more elite status from the last codex. Resigned to sniper duties, even then I wouldn't bother.

Asmodai is pointless because Librarians and Company Masters are so much better. Why waste points on a mediocre HQ that ultimately blows because assault is inferior to shooting in 6th, coupled with the removal of assaulting out of vehicles.


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## Madden (Jan 22, 2012)

Daemons- pink horrors yes people like them but pure psy shooting (in my case against eldar and wolves) waste of time.
DE- mandrakes nough said.
Necrons- flayed ones there job can be done better by wraiths or even scarabs.
CSM- beserkers the premier assault unit(in fluff) poor base attacks cost a lot no easy/cost effective assault vehicle and more besides.
Nids- (for me) tervigons the idea of taking a spawning critter into the front line just dosen't fit with my idea of nids. Generally RIPPERS high cost(ish) and commit suicide if out of synapse not worth the effort then there's there HQ's good abilities but no invun high cost and lowish toughness (bar tervigon but see above).


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## dthwish09 (Oct 15, 2009)

Eldar - I think it has to be the Vyper. The vehicle itself is overpriced, the weapon options are overpriced, and the armour sucks.


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## Ddraig Cymry (Dec 30, 2012)

Ogryn. Way too expensive and slow to be anything other than glorified meatshields. Just, bad.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I think Flayed Ones might not just be the worst unit in the codex, they might be the worst unit in _the entire game_. They are lacking anything that really makes them useful in CC. I was hoping they would get Fear or something, because that would vastly improve them and make them even worth it, and they at the very least would need Fearless because generally speaking, odds are they will lose combat in terms of individual rounds but come out ahead due to sheer unit size.

But without Fear/Fearless, they are literally useless.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

For BT it has to be Sword Brethern. Glorified Veterans with an upgrade skill, but for their point cost theyre just not worth fielding. Not to mention their models are Finecast and require customizing for a decent loadout. Helbrecht is a close second, not for crappy rules, but his cost and to bring his ridiculous maxed out Command Squad along its just a point sink I cant justify. But if I ever have a huge game Helbrecht and Grimmy will roll out with two Relics, Furious Charge, FNP, AAC, Fearless, in a 17 man footslog squad that moves 8" when taking a wound. Buckets of dice will rain forth.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

The entire game.....? 

Pair them up with the ever so popular imotehk and you have a cheap distraction unit, that even has a chance of doing something if you use it on an isolated squad. Their low I hardly makes them useless. 

Mutilators also have their uses. Running a solo mutilator can cause alot of problems for a low investment. Even a batch of 3 showing up isn't easy to remove for what they cost. They just lack grenades, which can be remedied by an Hq. With the csm dex I'm half inclined to say warp talons are up there, but even with their lack of grenades and 3+ armor they have use. 

For daemons, epidemius is a complete waste.


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## Nefrugle (Sep 14, 2011)

Tyranid Warriors. 3 Wound Model with a 4+ save. Amazing.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

For CSM I would back up the Mutilators as the worst unit. 

They might have almost every melee weapon in the game (Although they cannot use the same weapon 2 rounds in a row), but considering that they have no firepower and that they're up against Obliterators which have firepower (Hello Lascannon, flamer and reaper autocannon on the same unit) AND a powerfist, then I don't see the need to ever bring a Mutilator to the battlefield.

In the end, I think it comes down to personal choice though. 

(In regards to Daemons I would argue that Epidemius can still cause some havoc if he is the ally to a CSM nurgle based army - Pure speculation however, as I haven't tried it.)


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I like flayed ones: run them successfully as a unit of 10... but would like to run them as a unit of 20. Infiltrated in cover along an enemy's flank will scare the crap out of anyone: not much more then a unit of 6 terminators and putting out 60-80 S4 attacks means they'll rape almost any other unit.
The biggest problem with them is model cost: it promotes the use of small units, which for a relatively cheap unit with only 4+ save is really not how they should be played.

For necrons I would say either warriors, ghost ark or the C'Tan. The C'Tan is too expensive for what it does (which is great), the ghost ark is just disappointing (though undeniably tough) and warriors are just not as good as immortals unless you use them with ghost arks (see above).

For guard I would agree that ogrys suck (but I'm still putting a unit together just fot shits and giggles) but I would also add storm troopers: unless using them as deep strike melta suicides I just don't rate them. Sure AP3 is nice but not on a marine priced model with feth all toughness and armour.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Ravner298 said:


> The entire game.....?
> 
> Pair them up with the ever so popular imotehk and you have a cheap distraction unit, that even has a chance of doing something if you use it on an isolated squad. Their low I hardly makes them useless.
> 
> ...


Its not just low I. Any competent Necron player is used to low I and knows how to work around that hindrance. The real problem is that the models are individually weak and completely CC and have no way to offset the fact that they will amost universally lose combats. Ork Boyz are individually weak but get Mob Rule and also have limited firepower to try and soften their target up before a charge. See what I mean? Even though they will lose a round against assault marines or terminators, they may come out victorious in the end through sheer numbers because they don't turn and run when they lose. Flayed Ones have no such mitigation and will turn tail and flee after one round of combat, rendering an extremely pricey unit useless. 

Plus, you usually take them in very large numbers, making Deep Strike Mishaps much more likely. Its the reason no one Deep Strikes a Monolith any more, you're almost guaranteed to hit something you aren't supposed to with it but now its actually a bad thing. Imotekh can sort of cancel that out, but the other downside is that with no shooting, they literally have to just sit there for a turn and get blasted. You will never get the full 20 into CC for that reason alone, and any less than 20 isn't going to make a dent in anything except Firewarriors that, for some reason, are still on foot and in charge range, or IG squads that are totally expendable anyway.

As for using them purely as a distraction, they are far too expensive to just be a throwaway unit. 260 points for a diversion that lasts one turn? Why would I not just buy a Solar Pulse instead? I can force you to attack a specific unit because its the only thing close enough to reliably hit, and that unit might be a big mob of 20 Warriors what get regenerated by Ghost Arks and a Res Orb, which will cost the same amount as a pack of Flayed Ones but will be infinitely better and have synergy with the rest of my army.

Like I said, if they had Fear, that would reduce their weakness against getting flattened before they can attack, and if they had Fearless, it would prevent them from running when they inevitably get crunched in return.

If they were 7 points a model or something, MAYBE. But 13? No thanks.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

I think for Chaos Deamons its going to be the bloodcrusher. Very low save, and no eternal warrior makes these suffer from the tyranid warrior syndrome. 

For Tau, I'm going to be controversial and say the stealth team. They lie by making you think they'll be good, but they are just overpriced and require a huge amount of micro. In a cityfight they could be good or on a heavy terrain map they could do it but they are very unforgiving as a choice


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

Hmm.

Fabius Bile for me. Pretty much a terrible HQ choice. He'd have been alot better with a free 5 man mod-squad and allowing you to apply his stuff to any infantry unit.

I think berzerkers need to go to 2 attacks base or have a special rule like "Fury of the Blood God" which allows rage to continue round to round. They make a reasonable 9 man bodyguard for Kharn if you use the champion as a sac-lamb. 

Mutilators are a strange thing for me too. They become a frightening meatshield for 2 characters in termi armor. I've had decent success with a Lord + Sorc combo, rolling biomancy and taking 3 Muti's as body-guard. Popped in a land-raider it's an eye-bleeding expensive unit that alot of people struggle to deal with; a chaos artefact, a force weapon and the mix-bag they bring is hard to keep up with.



> They might have almost every melee weapon in the game (Although they cannot use the same weapon 2 rounds in a row), but considering that they have no firepower and that they're up against Obliterators which have firepower (Hello Lascannon, flamer and reaper autocannon on the same unit) AND a powerfist, then I don't see the need to ever bring a Mutilator to the battlefield.


I thought you can't mix and match weapons in Obliterator firing phases, everyone fires the same? They also don't get reapers as far as I'm aware, it's Assault Cannons. Is this FAQ stuff? Slow and Purposeful also prevents Overwatch by oblits which I've seen people try and pull out the bag against charges and this partially undermines their awesomeness.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Moonschwine said:


> I thought you can't mix and match weapons in Obliterator firing phases, everyone fires the same? They also don't get reapers as far as I'm aware, it's Assault Cannons. Is this FAQ stuff? Slow and Purposeful also prevents Overwatch by oblits which I've seen people try and pull out the bag against charges and this partially undermines their awesomeness.


You are right on both accounts. The first rule I don't see as a big deal I must admit. It was totally my mistake to list the wrong cannon though!

In regards to Overwatch that's never been a problem for me, as I usually kill things before they get close enough to charge anyway. But it is a minus in certain situations. My experience with Overwatch though, is that I can usually hit a mountain in front of me in 1/65 shots... If I'm lucky.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Rippers for 'Nids
Ulrik the Slayer for Space Wolves
Orks... no idea. I'm impressed with all the options I've used, but maybe Flash Gits.
Khorne Berskers for CSM
Aun'Shi for Tau (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Nurglings for Daemons

And well, that would sum up my armies.


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

Nordicus said:


> You are right on both accounts. The first rule I don't see as a big deal I must admit. It was totally my mistake to list the wrong cannon though!
> 
> In regards to Overwatch that's never been a problem for me, as I usually kill things before they get close enough to charge anyway. But it is a minus in certain situations. My experience with Overwatch though, is that I can usually hit a mountain in front of me in 1/65 shots... If I'm lucky.


Thought as much, and I know the feeling against blob-squads.

If my berzerkers lose another combat to IG Cadet's i'm going in the huff.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Celestians in Sister of Battle Codex. A close combat unit that is terrible at close combat.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

CSM: Defiler, Berzerkers, Mutilators, Helbrute, Possessed, Dark Apostle, Fabius Bile... Warp Talons and Maulerfiend barely escape the cut... hmm, CSM may be more balanced than last codex, but the army as a whole really isn't that balanced, is it.

Daemons: The Blue Scribes, Burning Chariot of Tzeentch.

IG: Penal Legionnaires.


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> For necrons I would say either warriors, ghost ark or the C'Tan. The C'Tan is too expensive for what it does (which is great), the ghost ark is just disappointing (though undeniably tough) and warriors are just not as good as immortals unless you use them with ghost arks (see above).


I have to disagree about the Warriors... they are great. The new FAQ about the Monolith has made them so much better. 

Step 1: Deep Strike Monolith behind enemy gunline
Step 2: 20 Warriors "Disembark" 
Step 3: Rapid Fire
Step 4: ????
Step 5: Profit

Flayed Ones as Iron Angel has stated are pretty much useless.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

Mossy Toes said:


> CSM: Defiler, Berzerkers, Mutilators, Helbrute, Possessed, Dark Apostle, Fabius Bile... Warp Talons and Maulerfiend barely escape the cut... hmm, CSM may be more balanced than last codex, but the army as a whole really isn't that balanced, is it.
> 
> I wouldn't even have Defilers, Mutilators, Dark Apostle, & Bile making the cut. they are just below and mostly taken in "fluffy" armies, where you know that your not taking a 100% competitive list. hell i might add in another 3rd of the codex on the "bland-ness" that is CSM...
> 
> IG: Penal Legionnaires. why can't i take them in squads bigger than 10 WHY!?


CSM - too much to rival...but i will say the Defiler, a 40+ increase where on the base set up can't even fire one of its weapons.:threaten: and still a "spider-nought", i fail to see why it is not like the soul grinder for CSM. and no ability to take marks?

SMs - Vanguard Vets - just too expensive

IG - either Ogryn or Penal Legion

Orks - looted wagon IMO, i have NEVER seen the unit ever taken.

Demons - Slaanesh Chariots/pink horrors

Nids - Warriors.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Necrons: As others have said, I choose Flayed Ones. If they didn't take an Elite slot they might be better. My other choice falls to the Doomsday Ark. A skimmer that can't move if you want its cannon to do anything is great. No Jink save when those Meltas Deepstrike.

Dark Eldar: Mandrakes for pretty much the same reasons myself and others have said about Flayed Ones. If you could start them with a Pain Token ... but then they'd lose Infiltrate.

Blood Angels: There isn't really anything terrible here. Of course some units are pretty expensive. Almost everything has a place in the right list but pairing certain units makes them awful.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Grey Knights: Inquisitor Valeria. Just why ?


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

Fallen said:


> Orks - looted wagon IMO, i have NEVER seen the unit ever taken.


I have three and I love them! 

Orks - Tie between Flashgitz and Tankbustas

Eldar - Swooping Hawks dead last!


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## Lanfear (Mar 23, 2011)

I have four armies to choose from as follows.

Mutilators are a prank unit in CSM. Nothing more to say on that, utter nonsense. Possessed are also pants for the points cost.

For my Grey Knights I recently tried out a Callidus Assassin which I used in previous editions to great effect. However the deployment rules using deep strike mean she gets killed before doing anything as she has to appear within 3" of a unit. Utter garbage and expensive too.

For the Eldar there is the current Eldar codex with many units amounting to drivel but that will soon be rectified (hopefully). Stand out for me are Banshees and guardians. Guardians are soft, squishy and have truly pointless weaponry due to the really short range of their guns. Banshees mainly because of the changes of edition and deployment from vehicles etc.

For my Ultramarines I'll give a mention to Captain Sicarius mainly on account of the high points cost for what he does. If he were 35-40pts cheaper then he might be worth taking.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Lanfear said:


> For my Grey Knights I recently tried out a Callidus Assassin which I used in previous editions to great effect. However the deployment rules using deep strike mean she gets killed before doing anything as she has to appear within 3" of a unit. Utter garbage and expensive too.


How has that changed? She can still run away can't she?


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## Squire (Jan 15, 2013)

Pyrovores for Tyranids. The Tyrannofex is up there too, along with rippers. Pyrovores are definitely number 1 though

I disagree about warriors. They may be weak to S8+ weapons, but so is practically everything. Hit anything with enough S8-10 and it will fold soon enough. It isn't difficult to give them a cover save with a gaunt screen, and their strength is they are very resilient to small arms fire. 150 points for fifteen T4 4+ save wounds isn't all that bad, and with our monstrous creatures they won't be the number one priority for missile launchers, lascannons and meltaguns anyway


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

Enginseers, Ogryn + Nork Deddog, and Penal Legionnaires are all pretty substandard.
AND I've never had any luck with a Deathstrike missile - though that's probably just me...


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## Lanfear (Mar 23, 2011)

Magpie_Oz said:


> How has that changed? She can still run away can't she?


Hey Magpie
In her previous incarnation in the last book she could turn up and enter combat in the same turn she arrived therefore keeping her fragile profile alive for a turn or two in combat without getting shot to ribbons.
She can only run away D6 inches. Not that great when you turn up 3" from some one. The deep strike deployment prevents her from charging into combat like she used to be able to thus stopping her being shot to bits as soon as she arrives. Shame as the fluff is great for her. I'll just experiment with the other assassins and see how they work out. 

Back on topic, how could i have missed out the utterly dreadful Warp Talons!!!
An assault unit with no assault grenades and the blind rule that won't work reliably and you have to risk a dodgy deep strike mishap potentially to get within 6" range for the blind rule to force a test.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

For Chaos Marines: 
the Defiler is costly as sh..t, it is frail, unreliable, has a skizo weapon set and due to bad scatter it can maim your own troops. plus the model cost a lot of bucks.

Second place for the Warp talons. one of the most useless assault units in the game. 30 pts for a marine. shure it has lightning claws. guess what? terminators cost just the same (if not less), have better survivability and better options. Plus, are you really using that fast attack slot for the talons instead of a helldrake??? 

For Imperial Guard: 
Ogryns. Really. they suck so hard... lots of points, scarce shooting, few model count, shitty armour, models cost a lot of bucks... i've never seen them playied in 10 years. Ogryns. Not even once.

Second place for deathstrike missile. lots of points for an unreliable one shot weapon. The dumb brother of the manticore.


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## Calistrasza (Mar 11, 2013)

I've never been particularly fond of Whirlwinds personally, just didn't really fit the Space Marine "vibe". We're the sword of the Emperor, the vanguard, the tip of the spear- time to wheel out a rocket artillery piece.


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## Battman (Nov 2, 2012)

Hmm id proably say flash gitz or kommandos both units have their uses but don't do their roll anywhere near to reasonable and both are too expensive for that roll anyway. Kommandos are just glorified boys and flash gitz up shooter nobs with crap


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Whirlwinds are useless but very cheap. Needs S6, ability to fire all Missiles, and including AA missiles. Bump it to 100 and it is an adequate choice.

Jump Pack Vanguards are far too expensive to be used. Needs base power weapons, cheaper JP, or the ability to assault from Transport (including Drop Pod).

Land Raider Crusaders: for anti infantry it doesn't do a very good job. 12 Bolter shots is not a lot.

Stormtalon: only adequate AA so far available. Outside of that, horrible. No comparison to any flyer (outside of DA flyers).

Chaplain: what he brings, a Librarian can do better.

Chapter Master: no special weapon delivery squad, useless special rule. No difference mostly from Captain, who at least gets FOC.modification options like Bikes. 

Honour Guard: just too damn expensive. However 2+ armour is now viable with Psword weakness.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I've always subscribed to the idea that overall, every unit does have some purpose-- there are no inherently "bad" units. That's obviously not 100% true, but I feel like the sentiment stacks up far more often than not. 

But, for the sake of argument, as both a Chaos Space Marine and Imperial Space Marine player, I find Terminators fairly useless. I know, I know, everyone loves them. But people overcompensate for running into them, and for comparable points, I can bring another scoring unit that ultimately will get more done. Don't get me wrong, I like Terminators. But I think that there's a knee-jerk reaction to the change 6th Edition brought to AP in close combat that means that there's a disproportionate amount of fire turned on Terminator squads, and they're expensive enough that you can't bring enough of them to counterbalance that. I'd rather lose a Tactical Marine to a plasma gun, for example, than a Terminator-- and at the end of the day, the Terminator isn't going to kill a whole lot more than a Tactical Marine, particularly at range.

I also have found bikers generally impractical outside of armies composed completely of bikes, purely because they're too points intensive for their damage output and survivability.


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

I agree wholly although I tend to justify the LRs/Termies etc by the amount of fire power that gets sent at them saving other units, for example shooting at my LR with Termies in it means they aren't shooting at my Vindies/Predators/troops


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## joebauerek (May 14, 2010)

For SM's it gotta be:
veteran vanguards... not that there bad but when kitted out there insanely expensive. I only run them in apoc now 10 man all with jump packs and power weapons with a chappie is the only way id ever use them.

Also whirlwinds are just awful..... just a over hyped rhino.

For DA:
Scouts as has been said a little bit more for them to be elite snipers would be a lot better.

Also land speeder vengeance..... not awful but for is costly and not really worth it IMO (just my opinion)


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

Hellados said:


> I agree wholly although I tend to justify the LRs/Termies etc by the amount of fire power that gets sent at them saving other units, for example shooting at my LR with Termies in it means they aren't shooting at my Vindies/Predators/troops


That's quite funny because I've found in my local meta-game a Land Raider can really throw off people. I fought a guard force a month ago and it was only by turn 3 we realized he hadn't brought a gun greater than Strength 7.

Increasingly I find myself disillusioned with the chaos codex. At first I was excited, but now the truth has set in: I'm stuck with this for a few years now and will probably end up going loyalists next simply because they will get stuff out the wazoo. I wouldn't be surprised if they get 10 flyers and a bagillion special-rules that give them everything from "everyone infiltrates" to "Every bush is actually a plasma mine".

I want to like CSM, and in fact there are some parts that make me smile greatly; but the rest is just too situational to justify or outright wacky. I can see Kelly's philosophic approach through the codex with his "everything works together" ideas. But it's implemented so sloppily. The fact the same unit role is spammed over and over just in different slots eats at me alot; Possessed: CC Elite unit, Berzerkers: CC Elite /Troop unit, Warp Talons: CC Fast Unit etc etc. It's like he ignored the cardinal rule of army building: if something can do the same thing for cheaper, it gets chosen instead.

And then we have special rules. Seriously, If warp talons had a charge-after-deepstrike once per game, I wouldn't mind the point's cost, hell it would even make dimensional key more interesting. But blind? Are you being serious?


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

Yeah it's one or the other, people go all out to kill them, can't kill them so get eaten by them or (what I do) ignore them and run away very fast (lascannon one isn't that scary, bolters don't scare me mech guard or SMs, Flamers are easy to avoid)


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

DE: Mandrakes. Seriously, what is their intended purpose in the army? For the life of me I can't see it. And the same thing goes for Keradruahk, the Useless Spectator.

CSM: When I heard my filthy traitors would be the 1st 6th edition army I rejoiced, very much looking forward to an end to their 4th edition blandness. Alas, I was greatly disappointed. The dex is merely a rehash of the old one, where the balance of power have been shifted internally but not increased or leveled in any way. As such, C:CSM have alot of really awful units (and a couple of amazing ones):

Mutilators: Added purely to squeeze some extra money out of the Obliterator craze, Mutilators serves no purpose at all. Incapable of shooting, expensive and slow Mutilators are just inflexible Terminators for more points. 

Possessed: Another expensive, elite CC unit without grenades or anything to make them better at performing said role. Like the dex didn't already have this type of unit by the bucketload.

Berzerkers: While these aren't all that bad, the exclusion of an assault transport that doesn't cost 200+ points makes the good old Zerkers either abnormally expensive or dead meat. Shame really.

Warp Talons: The CSM equivalent of Vanguard Veterans; expensive and unimpressive. Not to mention the other AMAZING choices they are competing with.

Defiler: I pay HOW MUCH for a 5++ save and WORSE wargear options!? Well, at least I can ally in the completely awesome Soul Grinder and use my Defiler as that instead.

But the worst of them all is:
The Dark Apostle: So, you are a Chaos Lord, for more points with -1 WS, -1 BS, -1 W, -1 I, -1 A, less wargear options and 3 completely irrelevant special rules? Sure I'll take you. When Rosie O'Donnel becomes the president of USA.

Chaos Daemons: Amazingly only have 2 completely useless units.
Bloodcrushers: Being little else than Tyranid Warriors for more points these are really awful. Luckily, you can now have up to 4 Heralds on Juggernaughts (who are actually very good) so my models will still get used.

The Burning Chariot: A Short-ranged, open-topped, AV 11, fast skimmer that has to stand COMPLETELY still to do anything is about as useful as a deflated sexdoll. Come to think of it, I can still think of plenty of fun uses for the sexdoll. The chariot, however is no less lame to me.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Necrosis said:


> Celestians in Sister of Battle Codex. A close combat unit that is terrible at close combat.


My vote as well. Though I wouldn't count them as a true close-combat unit unless they're in the Sororitas Command Squad.

Also add the Canoness and Sororitas Command Squads to the list for Sisters. A CCW-focused HQ (thanks to her Act of Faith, which doesn't cooperate with any unit in the army) who can't be kitted to survive combat properly, and a retinue like choice who doesn't synergize with the HQ that unlocks them, has almost no options and is stuck at 5 models, only 3 of which actually do the real fighting.

Cruddace really dropped the ball on some of the things he gave us in that codex. Here's to hoping the next one has less automatic choices and more awesome.....and the ability to build an all "Repentance" army too.


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## Nonsense (May 10, 2013)

CSM: 

Mutilators have been mentioned a lot, but they really are, just flat out awful.

Defiler is obnoxiously expensive and can't take marks (as the Daemon Soulgrinder can).

Warp Talons cost 30 points a model (I believe), as compared to 31 a model for termies.

Fabius Bile was awful 5e, and still is awful.

IMO unless you're spamming bikes, the cost of running them outweighs the usefulness, so in that sense, they're a tad bad.

Daemons:

Burning Chariot: Can't move and fire. If it could move and fire, it would be better. But with armor values of 11, it's near useless.

This may get some people upset, but Tzeentch in general is rather bad this edition, and not at all competitive. The main reason being behind that is the ability to hand out FnP to enemies on a silver platter. Maybe this isn't as big of a deal as I think, having not played a 6E Daemon Tzeentch army, but it seems like it.


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## Madden (Jan 22, 2012)

Actually the burning chariot is armour 10 so it's even worse that's one unit where I'd like to take but as it stands not a chance.


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