# Space Marine Intimacy



## LordofFenris (Mar 10, 2010)

I apologize if this offends anyone off the bat, this is not my intention!

So....The girlfriend and I were painting on the couch. She noticed a few excerpts from the SM codex about SM being "superhuman" and asked me how so? I explained to her the process one undergoes to become a SM and the changes it makes upon the prospects body. She then noticed the bio on Lukas the Trickster, and joked that he "bedded" so many woman at once. It got us thinking, can a Space Marine engage in sexual intercourse? I explained my theory of they couldn't because of the drastic changes on their bodies. 
While it may excite some women to think of a burly 9/10 ft tall marine, they have strength and size to match......she surmised that they would crush any female's body, given their strength. She also interjected they would probably stand out and intimidate most human women ( I showed her Space Wolves and Salamanders) I added to the theory that the weren't created with that in mind, so reproductive organs/functions probably don't work, not to mention the level of almost religious devotion makes me think they wouldn't be too concerned with that anyway. Well, with destructive Xenos, Renegades, daemons running around, who would have the time:laugh:
She then interjected, "And what girl would want to make out with a guy that has acidic spit, morning breath is bad enough"
Yes, she a regular comedian......
Any thoughts?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I have heard that their reproductive organs are somehow disabled or removed, but that said, I haven`t actually read it anywhere. So... unsure of that, really.

Lukas? Maybe it refers to his time as a human before his initiation. But who knows?

If they can, I doubt it would be an experience easily forgotten for said women.:laugh:


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I've heard some chapters that live amongst their home world inhabitants, but I don't think it would be a stretch to think out of the tens of thousands of space marines there aren't a couple horny bastards here and there. However, if their reproductive organs are disabled then... thats going to be hard. If any marines have a sexual tendency I would say that perhaps the Emperor's Children have it with their enhanced organs and body parts that always hunger for the sense of pleasure.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Serving a half dead guy is bad enough... but having your dick removed too???
Screw that!
Id be marching into the Emperors Children's base and saying "Where do i sign up?".


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

The psycho-indoctrination they are subjected to removes sexual instinct as surely as it banishes fear and other unwanted stimuli.

The behavior of Slaneeshi-worshipping Chaos Space Marines, however, shows that they can still act on said instincts if they are re-introduced.

Also see "Rynn's World": a Crimson Fists Chapter Master in the past sought to have breeding programs using Aspirants _who weren't left sterilized by the process of induction._ This would imply that, while "intimacy" is possible given a removal of indoctrination, you probably don't have to worry about Space Marine-lings.


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## Fenge (Dec 25, 2009)

It is possible for space marines to feel intimacy. Ragnar sort of falls in love with an inquisitor, even though he isn't supposed to be able to, in one of the space wolves books.

So I would say yes space marines can have intimate feelings towards people.


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## dark angel (Jun 11, 2008)

I believe Lukas bedded that amount of women before he became a Space Wolf. I myself tend to think that the Astartes are not able to reproduce, or have sex at that matter, however until Games-Workshop/Black Library state otherwise, it is more or less impossible for us to even get on the correct path.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

I don't think they have anything removed, though I do believe their gene boosting and training makes it rare for them to ever engage in or even want sex. Even then, I rather think they're more likely to have it with one another than they are with random women on random worlds, though that's up for some level of debate.


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## hekje (Apr 24, 2010)

ckcrawford said:


> However, if their reproductive organs are disabled then... thats going to be *hard*.


no it's not :biggrin:

I apologize for this terrible pun


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

It is hard to have sex when there is a giant metal plate welded to your groin.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

What metal plate are you talking about? I presume you don't mean the armour.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

I don't think they get their willy chopped off. But I do think their brain is rewired somehow so that their sex drive is repressed or rewired so that they are driven to perform other tasks. 
There are a couple of references in the novels to Space Marines finding women attractive and (according to my girlfriend) a couple of relationship that could have even become romantic if they had been given time to grow and one half of the couple hadn't been killed or otherwise removed from the equation. 
Just look at Garviel Loken and Mercedes Oliton the remembrancer from the HH series she found him inhuman but studly and even described him as Adonian according to the Mrs who's knowledgeable about such things a romance was definatly brewing there. Then theres Ragnar and his Inquisitor and then there's Gabriella and Toran from the second space wolf trilogy he was more devoted to her than his entire chapter.


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## GWLlosa (Sep 27, 2009)

I think that if they were capable of doing the nasty, they probably could have avoided the entire Heresy. Its both a stress-reliever, and it gives them a greater 'stake' in the survival of mankind, as it were...


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## Bakunin (Mar 27, 2010)

Since there is no fluff stateing that becomeing a marine effects either 'performance' or sex drive, I'm presuming that they are both physically capable and have the psychological potential. 

The Emperors Children are stated as haveing spent the seige of the Emperors palce "slaughtering more than a million people and rendering them down to create endless varietys of drugs and stimulants. Countless thousands more died to give the legionnaires more direct, if cruder enjoyment'. (Slaves to darkness p263). I realise this is old fluff and refers to CSM, but it does suggest they were sateing a twisted sexual urge. Although it should be noted that one possible explainantion for noise marines is impotence.

"Come to bed" whispered the Daemonette.
"Erm, I think I'll just stay here listening to some er... music" replied the embarrased marine.

Likewise the rendering down to create drugs might of been the Emperors Childrens attempt to create a from of Viagra that actually worked on their enhanced physiology.

But with astartes in general, it should be remembered that if they have a sex drive it should supposedly be suppressed. The Astartes are portrayed as being like warrior monks and the Chaplains monitor their adherance to this, punishing digressions. 

When not in battle they spend their time training, meditating or generally trying to improve their devotion to the Emperor. Even chapters that havee feasts and drinking do this within the confines of the chapter, not visiting bars on their local planets.

Now I'm not going to go into the ****-erotisism of this lifestyle (ian Watson manged to cover that). Or the hypocrisys of religious and monastic lifestyles. If you want that, please watch or read 'The Name of the Rose'. (Do both, you won't be disapointed). But sucha lifestyle, no matter which religion or cause your devoted to, is meant to allow an individual to rise about basic physical needs and devote their life to the higher cause that their order is devoted to. So to be an astartes, you would have to be an exceptional individual who can rise above the basic needs and temptations of life. This is actually something that any individual can achieve, through the developing control and breaking basic habits. Which is what makes the astartes such exceptional individuals.

Astartes do fail at this. The numbers that go over to chaos have basically given into temptation in its various forms (power, bloodlust, basic lust etc.) and so weild all the powers of the astartes, with out the self control of the monastic life.

So to cut a long story short, yes they are capable of sex. But being basically monks, they don't really think about it or engage in sexual acts.


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## LordofFenris (Mar 10, 2010)

Well, it seems Bakunin summed up my thoughts on this subject. Anyone else what to interject? Anyone have some canonical evidence?


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## Sandshrew (Apr 25, 2010)

I read somewhere that the Salamanders chapter supported polygamy (having multiple wives) whether or not they actually do the "horizontal monster mash" is left to the imagination I guess. As for Loken and Mercedes, aren't there numerous occurrences where she was checking him out? she always referred to him as being attractive.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

The thing about threads like this is that there is no conclussive answer because GW are never going to give one. They are trying desperately to aim the game at a younger and younger audience and it's not going too go down to well if Little Johnny's parents decide to have a look in his latest book and read a whole chapter about Space Marines knobbing the hell out of anything with a pulse! 
It's the same as asking whether or not Skeletor ever bumped uglies with Evil Lyn, it was a cartoon for kids, the writers are never going to say!


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I am aware of a wolf lord attempting to woo a woman...... Although it turned out to be a sleneshi and so too were the rest of her friends and the lord and his retinue were never seen again but yeah. Although tbh I don't really think you could base the standard marine policy on the matter on the wolves and their exploits.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Woah, I know what you're referring to in that example but it never says what the people actually are who that Wolf Lord encounters. What's this with 'sleneshi'?


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

I agree i believe the SM are capable of sex one that must be noted is this

Even though SM are trained hardcore into what they are one must remember they are still human and will still have the same flaws as anyone else. Hence why marines turn to chaos as well but anyway. They may not trully feel physical attraction towards women they feel emotional attraction which happens many tims in the 40k universe.

IMO i feel this what is missing from many of the books most SM characters are very much cookie cutter made. Almost every SM has the same exact personallity which i feel if they were given more emotion or personality it would make them more intresting.
This has been done in some cases. Read Soul Hunter this book i cant put down just because Talos and all his buddies each have a mind of there own. They converse, complain, and the unthinkable joke around with each other.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Woah, I know what you're referring to in that example but it never says what the people actually are who that Wolf Lord encounters. What's this with 'sleneshi'?


By sleneshi I meant Slaaneshi and by that i meant daemon and that's just an inference. Could have been an eldar for all I know but it doesn't change what he did. Lol sorry my iPhone assumes I want it spelt the why I usualy spell it and I spell it phonetically when I use the word in texts.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Personally I like to believe the people were none of the major races and were one of those unknown horrors present in the 40K universe.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> By sleneshi I meant Slaaneshi and by that i meant daemon and that's just an inference. *Could have been an eldar for all I know* but it doesn't change what he did. Lol sorry my iPhone assumes I want it spelt the why I usualy spell it and I spell it phonetically when I use the word in texts.


Oh god, that line just reminded me of the worst fan fic ever... please, lets not go down that dusty road again.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

ThatOtherGuy said:


> Oh god, that line just reminded me of the worst fan fic ever... please, lets not go down that dusty road again.


Lol would never dream of it. Also... Not quite what I was going for. Lol


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

normtheunsavoury said:


> The thing about threads like this is that there is no conclussive answer because GW are never going to give one. They are trying desperately to aim the game at a younger and younger audience and it's not going too go down to well if Little Johnny's parents decide to have a look in his latest book and read a whole chapter about Space Marines knobbing the hell out of anything with a pulse!
> It's the same as asking whether or not Skeletor ever bumped uglies with Evil Lyn, it was a cartoon for kids, the writers are never going to say!


Yeah, they aim for such a younger audience. Mum doesnt want little Jhonny reading about Birds and the Bees, but its cool for him to read about People being skinned alive, little children having skulls crush, or people turning into feces and pussy worts screaming praise to Nurgle. But kissing a girl is outta the equation cause their aim is younger Audience.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> Yeah, they aim for such a younger audience. Mum doesnt want little Jhonny reading about Birds and the Bees, but its cool for him to read about People being skinned alive, little children having skulls crush, or people turning into feces and pussy worts screaming praise to Nurgle. But kissing a girl is outta the equation cause their aim is younger Audience.


To ba honest thats more of a statement about modern society than it is about 40K or GW. just look at Doctor Who, they can quite happily talk about genocide and mass murder but sex is very much a no no. 
Just look at kids toys, especially those aimed at boys, like 40K. It's all guns and army men. Transformers, a race of sentient robots who have come to Earth to continue their battle that can only end in the complete decimation of one side or the other. Star Wars, a whole planet gets destroyed in the opening hour of the film. Pokemon, enslave strange creatures and make them fight for your entertainment. Action Man, your very own anatomically incorrect squadie. Power Rangers, school kids given weapons of mass destruction. Thunder Cats, a race of feline warriors stranded on a strange world fighting an immortal undead evil god thing. 
And just to top it off, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, mutant turtles trained in the arts of war and assassination.
All outstanding examples of modern societies wonderful world view that killing is just fine as long as you don't say fanny, tits or knob!


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

So Khorn rules our planet at this time. Although Im pretty sure Slannesh rules Japan and Taiwan. Where sex is currency .


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## DonFer (Apr 23, 2010)

I laughed a lot at the thought of a librarian using his psychic powers to deliver pleasure to hundreds of women at time... (Bruce all mighty anyone?)

On a funnier note I guess the SMs do have to feel something after fighting along the SoB, they all look so sexy in those suits... LOL! :grin:


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Said Librarian could also deliver pleasure to himself. Look, no hands! :laugh:


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Can a SM bump uglies with a regular human woman?

Dunno. Maybe you could read "Man of steel; woman of kleenex" (short story/essay by Larry Niven) and get an idea of the difficulties involved. Sure, it's a "what-if" about Superman and Lois Lane, but the parallels are there.

Especially the "gutting like a fish" line.
Superstrength and involuntary muscle spasm come to mind.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Something tells me that if the Emporer decided "hey, acidic spit, how cool would that be!" he might of begun thinking along those lines for other bodily fluids.....

as for the topic at hand, wasn't there some sort of fluff saying the SoBs were originally the SM's ladies of negotiable affection? So that lends credibility to their ability to get it on. 

though obviously they would be unable to pass on genetic material. Else someone could capture a SM and fem-rape him till they had an army of SMs, definitely sound like something a slaaneshi cult would do!


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## LordofFenris (Mar 10, 2010)

lawrence96 said:


> Something tells me that if the Emporer decided "hey, acidic spit, how cool would that be!" he might of begun thinking along those lines for other bodily fluids.....


I had mentioned that exact thing....no one else seemed to have picked up on it. I don't know many females that would want to make out with an acid spitting being, it'd be like making out with a Xenomorph from the Aliens movies......



lawrence96 said:


> though obviously they would be unable to pass on genetic material. Else someone could capture a SM and fem-rape him till they had an army of SMs, definitely sound like something a slaaneshi cult would do!


I doubt that would work either, I'd be scared to see the woman needed to give birth to a fully enhanced Astartes, since I would imagine there would be no need to put in implants if pure genetic material would be passed.....ouchies.....

Chromedog refreshed another valid point I was trying to get at....



> Dunno. Maybe you could read "Man of steel; woman of kleenex" (short story/essay by Larry Niven) and get an idea of the difficulties involved. Sure, it's a "what-if" about Superman and Lois Lane, but the parallels are there.
> 
> Especially the "gutting like a fish" line.
> Superstrength and involuntary muscle spasm come to mind.


I doubt, and my gf concurs, any normal human female could handle the force delivered by a superhuman SM.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Supposedly the emperor had children with human females....... Giant super being..... Human female.... That's a confusing image.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

If space marines could reproduce (though the odds are not in their favour) i doubt their offspring could reproduce due to the amount of geneitc traits they have over normal humans. I imagine their offspring would work much like mules or ligers. The only way to COMPLETELY destroy reproduction is to cut their manhood off. Even if they get a vacectamy (I can't spell this) that would decrease their probability by 99.99% which would still make it possible.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Supposedly the emperor had children with human females....... Giant super being..... Human female.... That's a confusing image.


yes I heard about this as well. That would mean that normally space marines would have the ability to reproduce. However, we don't know about how far chapters go to make sure their marines are warrior monks. 

As well, technically, those children of the emperor "supposidly" should not be able to reproduce as that is law of at least our world that the second generation of the hybrids will not be able to reproduce due to the gene makeup just being totally screwed up


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

vasectomy.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> Said Librarian could also deliver pleasure to himself. Look, no hands! :laugh:


Do NOT get a perils of a warp attack. You'd get more than whiplash ducking under the covers to hide from the Chaplains.

I'm going to go for the full on geld. No point in having one of the most sensitive parts of the body wide open, swinging free on a living weapon, when everything about him is almost semi-psychoindoctrinated to remove all humanity.

Regardless of the snip, chop, chemical, or psychological (you are gay... you are gay...) treatments, point is the balls are still hanging tough.


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## Tel Asra Nejoar (Mar 16, 2010)

forgive me if im wrong, but wasnt uriel ventris chosen for induction into the ultras because and ancestor of his had been a hero of the ultras? if i remember, direct lineage was implicit in the paragraph where this was raised(in nightbringer i think). id say that they were capable of reproduction at some point, and as they are recruited as kids, i doubt itd be before training. and to the guy who claimed sisters of battle were once space marine concubines or what-ever, whats the source? as ive always been led to believe that they are responsible for policing the astartes (or at least wiping them out when declared traitor/mutant/unfit for purpose). never leave a woman scorned comes to mind if thats the case though!


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I was curious about Uriel`s ancestry myself, actually. The age issue raises a valid point, but the ultras are a chapter that leave their previous lives behind when they become a marine, as outlined in Dead Sky Black Sun.

A mystery, here.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Ultramar is a heirachal system based on Post Fall of Roman ERE history. If a man, who started off as a standard trooper (Comitantenses) was to make his way through the ranks, and perhaps join the Cataphractarii (Heavy Elite Cavalry), his family would be hnoured above all.

Many believed that such glory was hereditary, (hence the caste system), and many were often considered for such positions based on their lineage, rather than skill. That, combined with the increased rise of auxilia troops (Varangii, Turkopoles, Armenians, etc), lead to the destruction of Constantinople, despite the efforts of the Emperor that city was named after (Constantinium I).

You read the novel from the eye of someone of the line - and being the hero, Graham McNeil is going to say that despite what others think, he's overcome everything else. Imagine the story from Caius (?) who sees it the other way round, that here was someone who's great grandaddy was a hero, yet I'm better than him (i.e anyway to win, rather than just honourably).


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Tel Asra Nejoar said:


> forgive me if im wrong, but wasnt uriel ventris chosen for induction into the ultras because and ancestor of his had been a hero of the ultras? if i remember, direct lineage was implicit in the paragraph where this was raised(in nightbringer i think). id say that they were capable of reproduction at some point, and as they are recruited as kids, i doubt itd be before training. and to the guy who claimed sisters of battle were once space marine concubines or what-ever, whats the source? as ive always been led to believe that they are responsible for policing the astartes (or at least wiping them out when declared traitor/mutant/unfit for purpose). never leave a woman scorned comes to mind if thats the case though!


Ventris was chosen to attend one of the Ultramarines best training camps because of his famous ancestor but he was picked by the Ultramarines to become an Astartes based on his own accomplishments in that camp.


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## Deady (May 8, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Supposedly the emperor had children with human females....... Giant super being..... Human female.... That's a confusing image.


Immaculate Conception.

The Emperor could have just looked at a woman and made her pregnant!


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

My friend asked Jervis at Games Day UK last autumn if SMs have genitals, and this was the response:
There is no answer to this question because GW have decided that there isn't. There is a file in which they have all of this information, so it is written down, but they reserve the right to retcon it.

So anyone can just make up whatever they want, it's all right.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Hmmm... If they can't reproduce, how does their excretory system work?


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

FYI reproducing and shitting are not the same thing - that might be where you are going wrong :dunno:

You do not need sex organs to be able to process and dispose of biological waste products.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Excreting also refers to peeing- imagine a vasectomy, just becauuse you won't be producing a mini-me doesn't mean that suddenly you've got a dam built in your penis blocking your urine from getting out opcorn:


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## WarWolf88 (Apr 1, 2010)

.....!? *lots of finnish cursing and cussing* I hate updates! :angry:

Sorry, it just seems that all my responses (and a lot of others) have been lost to the warp. I hate it when this happens, and accoarding to usual luck it happened to a thread I actually liked taking part in...*sigh*

Anyway, the last thing I remember putting up here was an answer to someone (sorry, I forgot...  )that mentioned that in the novel Dark Sun (I think) some one named Hon-something used "a bit of gene-seed, human females and a Chaos ritual" to breed Chaos Space Marines. I pointed out that since CSM's always cheat, the gene-seed is used as a catlyst of sorts, while the poor woman is the equivelant of a test tube and the ritual does all the rest. This being the case, there will never be any sort of interaction between a CSM and a woman, so this cannot really be used as evidence for or against the original question.

I also remember speaking with LordofFenris if the possible child of a Space Marine would also have all the extra organs as the Marine. He was for it, I was against. Talk of genes was involved, and I still say that the gene manipulation a Marine undergoes in order to be suitable to recieve the transplanted organs does not mean that they would manifest in any for in the child. At most the childs innards would be more resiliant as opposed to those of an avarage human.

We also wonder that IF (by a freak of nature) the SM's child would have all the extra organs, would they be functional even if some of them did not work on the father, like for example on an Imperial Fist.

And we agreed that as the mothers genes have to be taken into account on the making of a child, there is a possibilty that the SM father could have a son or a daughter. And I say it again, that is for update, since my understanding of genes is somewhat shaky...

i think that was about it....one more time: Perkele. Alright, back to topic. :security:


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

SMs don't have children, that isn't where little SMs come from. SMs are recruited from the ordinary people that make up the population of the Imperium. If they pass all the tests then they are gifted with the gene-seed and become SMs.


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

Perhaps they do it Catholic-Church clergy style


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## LordofFenris (Mar 10, 2010)

Platypus5 said:


> Perhaps they do it Catholic-Church clergy style


That is EXCELLENT!



> SMs don't have children, that isn't where little SMs come from. SMs are recruited from the ordinary people that make up the population of the Imperium. If they pass all the tests then they are gifted with the gene-seed and become SMs.


No, darklove, we realize this is what happens. This was a What If theory. As in what if a SM did engage in sexual intercourse, and a child was created from that encounter.

EDIT: Also, good to see you back Warwolf88, I was wondering what happened to your posts!


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

LordofFenris said:


> No, darklove, we realize this is what happens. This was a What If theory. As in what if a SM did engage in sexual intercourse, and a child was created from that encounter.


By the same token you might ask What If: SMs were all actually Eldar in disguise and tricking the humans? That Power Armour is so bulky, there could possibly be an Eldar inside working it... Humans don't understand the technology anyway. That is why there seem to be fewer Eldar, because more and more of them are pretending to be SMs.
What If: all SMs had their brains removed during the final indoctrination and replaced with a chip? Its all a plot by the Mechanicus to take control of the Imperium.

These What Ifs are as likely as any theory.


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## LordofFenris (Mar 10, 2010)

darklove said:


> By the same token you might ask What If: SMs were all actually Eldar in disguise and tricking the humans? That Power Armour is so bulky, there could possibly be an Eldar inside working it... Humans don't understand the technology anyway. That is why there seem to be fewer Eldar, because more and more of them are pretending to be SMs.
> What If: all SMs had their brains removed during the final indoctrination and replaced with a chip? Its all a plot by the Mechanicus to take control of the Imperium.
> 
> These What Ifs are as likely as any theory.



True they are, but we are not speculating or theorizing about any of those points. This thread was initially made to discuss the topic of if SM's engage in sexual intercourse. Other topics were added, in the same vein, including a discourse among myself and WarWolf88 about the genetics of a SM having a child with a human female and if it could even happen was discussed before the aforementioned discourse. When I quoted you, I was pointing out that we know where and how SM's are created, and this was a intially a topic of can/do Space Marines have sex, which turned into if/ can they have children, and THEN if that child would be affected by the father SM's genetics being enhanced. A few posts back, I set the base of "Yes they CAN have sex, but don't engage in it do to do their training/conditioning/whatever." That way we could move on into how genetics would effect the development of a fetal SM child. But, if you didn't read through the very long thread:biggrin:, you probably didn't see what I explained above.....sorry if my last post made it seem like I was being rude. Re reading it, I do sound like I was a bit....short. I apologize


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Space Marines have no interest in intimacy. The training, hypno-indoctrination and gene-upgrades apparantely kill the innate drive for those things, the only example where it didn't work is Ragnar Blackmane of the Space Wolves. He was still capable of attraction to females but not strongly enough to want to do anything about it, and he was aware he should not.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> Space Marines have no interest in intimacy. The training, hypno-indoctrination and gene-upgrades apparantely kill the innate drive for those things, the only example where it didn't work is Ragnar Blackmane of the Space Wolves. He was still capable of attraction to females but not strongly enough to want to do anything about it, and he was aware he should not.


Wrong, I have personly given an example where another wolf attempted to woo a female.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Care to provide a link?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Its in here. Find it if you want but I am not going to look it up.lol Its also in the wolf codex.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Indeed, it is. It's one of the legends of the lost Great Companies, one which arrives at a utopian world whose monstrous nature is not revealed until the Wolf Lord makes a pass at one of the women there.

The common theme, though, is that while indoctrination holds Astartes just don't go down that road. Ragnar himself acknowledges the beauty of the Navigator from House Belisarius, but he doesn't express any emotional or sexual need.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes well..... I acknowledge that the wolves are anything but common but this proves that a laps is possible which means that there is a potential for it. Not very likely but possible none the less.


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## LordofFenris (Mar 10, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> Indeed, it is. It's one of the legends of the lost Great Companies, one which arrives at a utopian world whose monstrous nature is not revealed until the Wolf Lord makes a pass at one of the women there.
> 
> The common theme, though, is that while indoctrination holds Astartes just don't go down that road. Ragnar himself acknowledges the beauty of the Navigator from House Belisarius, but he doesn't express any emotional or sexual need.


I think you just mirrored what I suggested, but giving it further clarification! I think its safe to put to bed the question if a SM can have sex/ would have sex, as it seems Phoebus just answered it. Now we if we could try to focus on the possibility of child creation (do you think SM's are sterile?) and if said child would be born superhuman or just really big.....


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

IF a child is possible from the union than it would be far above average.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I like to think of it as a day and life of a space marine. I would say that for the most part space marines have too much to do everyday that they don't really feel like having sex at the end of it. That would be my explaination of things. As we all know, after a hard day of work for males all we want to do is eat dinner and rollover. At least in boot camp, the recruits and I didn't really have any "go to the stall" type moments, and this was because we were all to tired to think about our sexual tendencies. Also rumor that the shots we had and our food had something to lower that tendency. So I think its possible that Space Marines could have similar external help. Though... when we got out of boot camp... yeah


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## WarWolf88 (Apr 1, 2010)

LordofFenris said:


> Also, good to see you back Warwolf88, I was wondering what happened to your posts!


Thanks, and like I said, my usual luck...

Now that I'm re-reading this thread, for some reason this paticular quote comes to mind (especially after reading ckcrawfords reply):



Homer said:


> Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing sooner than war.


So yes, I think that could explain a lot. And as for Ragnar: Iquisitor Karah Isaan.

But for those who never saw the conversation between me and LordofFenris, I'll give my point of view in a nutshell:

First, let's get rid of the two biggest 'ifs' by saing that a Marine could have an intercourse with a woman and that they could have children.
I think that the child could just as easily be male or female, because we are not mixing an SM's genes around in a test tube, and the genes of the mother must also be counted. Also, the gene manipulation a SM must under go shouldn't in any way make any difference in the possibilty of the childs gender, because
1) that is not what the manipulation is meant for
2) even though he is now a Space Marine, before that he was just like any other avarage guy (by 40k standards at least).
The child would most likely be stronger, taller and more resiliant then an avarage human, but he/she would not have any manner of gene-seed (to make the child an SM outright), nor would he/she have any of the organs that are transplanted to a Space Marine. At most the gene manipulation would manifest as a side effect by with some of the organs may be more resiliant (as in that the child would be able to diggest food that would be unedible to a normal person, he/she would be immune to most common sicknesses, etc).


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Do you play Rome Total War? I remember that quote. They have some good quotes between those intermissions.

Back to topic, I agree with that fact. There are some space marine traits that have been introduced to them genetically, however a lot of those traits have been implanted in them.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

And in fact if there was enough genetic difference between a human and Space Marine to suggest that the extra organs would be capable of being passed along to a child I doubt that the Astartes and human would even be capable of producing offspring being of such differing species.

Like a human having sex with a chimp and expecting there to be a long-armed hairy child born from such a horrific union.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I don't think SMs ever would have children. 

IF it was somehow possible, maybe the SM got raped by magic surgeons that could make it happen by inventing another Universe (maybe WH 500k), no SM genetics would be passed on unless the Gene-Seed altered the structure of the SM's testicles. 

Since there is no combat advantage to having human or super-human testicles, whatever some adolescents might fantasise about, it is unlikely that this would be the case. The DNA in the sperm would therefore be the original DNA of the human recruit before becoming an SM, and any children would be normal humans without any SM traits.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

LordofFenris said:


> I think you just mirrored what I suggested, but giving it further clarification! I think its safe to put to bed the question if a SM can have sex/ would have sex, as it seems Phoebus just answered it. Now we if we could try to focus on the possibility of child creation (do you think SM's are sterile?) and if said child would be born superhuman or just really big.....


Caveat: I'm by no means an expert on reproduction.

That having been said, I'm pretty sure that the key behind human reproduction would be compatibility between the two parents (e.g., chromosomes).

Becoming an Astartes involves genetic engineering. Absent that engineering, DNA coding, altered chromosomes, etc., would an unaugmented woman's physiology be able to "recognize" and can work with Astartes material to reproduce them in a child?

I seriously doubt this. The Emperor didn't aim for it, and thus the odds that this would happen naturally are slim to none. If anything, I would posit that precisely _because_ of genetic incompatibility issues between an Astartes and an unaugmented woman, a child born to them could be plagued by serious physical defects. 

Regarding sterility, reading "Rynn's World", it is stated that many, if not most, Crimson Fists become sterile as a by-product of becoming Astartes. The context of the passage, which involves "controvertial" efforts to breed Astartes (using their genetic material, IIRC, not pairing them with women) is such that they are not *made* sterile on purpose, but that the process itself might render them sterile.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

gen.ahab said:


> Its in here. Find it if you want but I am not going to look it up.lol Its also in the wolf codex.


Why? To proove a point, you have to you know, provide proof.

Isaac Newton didn't say "look I've discovered gravity", and when the board of scientists ask for proof, he didn't say "CBA, but it's all around you. Do the work yourself."

I don't have the Wolf codex either. Don't be so ignorant.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I can vouch that the example mentioned is in there.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Codex: Space Wolves (pg.20) said:


> It is only when Svengar makes a casual pass at one of their women that the Space Wolves realise their hosts are not people at all.


It's an excerpt from part of a paragrapgh but it's not taken out of context for our purposes.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well... On the topic of the viability of a sm child, if the emperor did have children it would suggest that their genetics aren't terribly divergent.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Well from what i understand about the birds and the bees is that it's not the DNA that decides if two things can breed, it's the number of chromosomes they have. So unless the SM's have 36 chromosome pairs to our 23 then a child is possible.

personally i believe that if they are capable of reproducing then any enhancements might be passed on as many of them directly affect the DNA (and thus the chromosomes).

And i believe that a woman would be able to carry a SM child through to full term as the father doesn't make much difference as to how big the child is when born, remeber the majority of human developement is conducted outside of the womb.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> It's an excerpt from part of a paragrapgh but it's not taken out of context for our purposes.


Lifting the skirt is hardly a suggestion of intimacy. Still doubtful. And fanfiction is hardly canon, and what canon is there is hardly saying that a Wolf Lord was going to demolish some Daemonette.

As to passing on of genes, there's not much suggestion that a sted using male, or even a heroine using male would give a child exception muscle growth or a heroine reliance. Instead, that comes from the mother, and AFAIK, that only occurs through imbibing that while the foetus is growing.

So, unless the female becomes a Space Marine during the birth of her child, then no, it's still a bog standard human. Although one with perhaps mildly better immune systems, maybe ability to spit poison, etc. It would only be through 6-7 generations of selective breeding (i.e dolly the sheep) would such a mutant be a stable and healthy enough specimen to be considered.


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## klaswullt (Feb 25, 2012)

Serpion5 said:


> I have heard that their reproductive organs are somehow disabled or removed, but that said, I haven`t actually read it anywhere. So... unsure of that, really.
> 
> Lukas? Maybe it refers to his time as a human before his initiation. But who knows?
> 
> If they can, I doubt it would be an experience easily forgotten for said women.:laugh:


Removed reproductive organs... I like that one.
After all, the balls are vulnerable so letz___remove them!


The big problem is mnot the chiildren. Its the horny geeks, you cant give them any excuse or else they ejaculate on the codexes.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

Maybe they DO destroy the women when they have sex with them, and simply dont care. lolz.

btw space marines are usually 7-8 feet tall on average, rather than the stated 9-10. 

I think GW has tried pretty hard to stay away from the topic in general. They want to keep the game and fluff focused on war, not awkward does this work intercourse. Every once in a while they seem to slip up though like the lukas example or how the sisters of battle were originally all wives of the Emperor.

I think its safe to say that msot of them would simply never think about it, as they have been so far removed from normal human tendancies and desires. Talos and Argel Tal from aaron dembski boden's novels I think show some good insight into such things.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

klaswullt said:


> Removed reproductive organs... I like that one.
> After all, the balls are vulnerable so letz___remove them!
> 
> 
> The big problem is mnot the chiildren. Its the horny geeks, you cant give them any excuse or else they ejaculate on the codexes.


klaswullt, if you continue to revive dead threads, at least add something productive or new to them, rather than just nodding your head to an older post. 

You have revived a two year old thread basically for nothing, and this is not the only one either. Please refrain from doing this in the future.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

unxpekted22 said:


> I think GW has tried pretty hard to stay away from the topic in general. They want to keep the game and fluff focused on war, not awkward does this work intercourse. Every once in a while they seem to slip up though like the lukas example or how the sisters of battle were originally all wives of the Emperor.


Sisters were originally the "Brides of the Emperor" a group of women who revered him and maintained a coven. Not quite the same thing.


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## Chimaera (Feb 1, 2010)

Just accept it! The Space Wolves are the only chapter/Space Marines with their sex drive left intact


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## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

Do Space Marines have a sex drive? In several books I recall a Space Marine or two noticing that a female was attractive, but nothing more.


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## Otis The Barbarian (Feb 14, 2012)

I honestly think the space marines still have all necessary organs, but their sex drive is highly suppressed. It's there, but it needs a bit of a push.


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## stevey293 (Aug 16, 2011)

I think they are forced to get jiggy with this! 










Instant loss of sex drive. 

But really what a daft subject to bring up and does it really matter if they do or dont have sex?


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## Agarwaen (Oct 8, 2011)

Platypus5 said:


> It is hard to have sex when there is a giant metal plate welded to your groin.


That's what she said! :biggrin:


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