# Penal legion



## air (May 11, 2009)

as i understand it there are no models for a penal legion but given their special rules i would love some

can anyone send me examples of a penal legion or tips on how to make it

thanks in advance

Air


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## Slayer23942 (May 6, 2009)

well, u could try to get cadian bodies and legs, catachan arms and heads, and combine them...it could look nice...


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## White Knight (Apr 17, 2009)

Heres a last chancers squad


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## Wiccus (Jun 2, 2008)

Well my guard are viking themed so I dont use them as convicts but rather as norse berserkers and I used some fantasy dwarf and marauder bits as well as a few catachan bits on cadian torsos and legs


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

If you wanted to you could just use catachans, ruff looking humans with lasguns. Hell you could probly get away with diferently painted cadians.


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## Kaizer (Aug 14, 2008)

I thought about making some when the codex came out.

My idea was to mix some ordinary cadians with some Empire Flagellants. Medival crazies become sci-fi crazies


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

At my gaming club today I saw a squad which was basically Catachans with orange clothes (prison garbs!)
It looked great.

One thing I was disappointed with, in their fluff it says they have explosive collars, but there's no execution rule like with commissars


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

a friend of mine used florist wire to make little collars,thin solder wire would work too,or maybe even twisted copper wire.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> a friend of mine used florist wire to make little collars,thin solder wire would work too,or maybe even twisted copper wire.


That's all well and good, but I want the Custodian to detonate one of the guys if they fail a morale check T_T


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

There are no current models for them - the older models are all modelled with explosive collars or body packs and are deemed to be not "acceptable" in todays climate.
[ie. Where a several-millenia long "holy" crusade results in the deaths of billions, regularly] /sarcasm

I still use several of my old 'penitents' in my guard army - as penal legion - however.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Yeah, RT/ 2nd Ed FTW! I recommend modelling them from Empire State Troops, for the contrast with other IG models...or maybe getting your hands on some Necromundan Goliaths?


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Got some of them, too.

All of my penal legion wear gitmo fluoro orange with dirty white singlets/t-shirts. Makes them stand out. Usually means they get shot first, too (but that means they're not shooting at something else).


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

chromedog said:


> There are no current models for them - the older models are all modelled with explosive collars or body packs and are deemed to be not "acceptable" in todays climate.
> [ie. Where a several-millenia long "holy" crusade results in the deaths of billions, regularly] /sarcasm
> 
> I still use several of my old 'penitents' in my guard army - as penal legion - however.


What do you mean by not acceptable?


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

How about swappin'/kit bashin' with the Empire flagellants and the Cadian Box set? That way it would give the sort of crazy convict look for your troops and explain fo some of the random powers they get when you roll for em'. Good luck finding the modelled look you want! :grin:


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

@winterous:
The old penitents wore explosive collars and could be detonated (*boom - off goes head).
There were also suicide bombers. They wore an explosive pack and ran at the enemy, then blew themselves up (self propelled ordnance charges, really).

In GWs opinion, these models and concepts are "unacceptable" in today's climate.
It's ok to have suicide bombers on the news, but not in a game of toy soldiers, apparently.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

chromedog said:


> @winterous:
> The old penitents wore explosive collars and could be detonated (*boom - off goes head).
> There were also suicide bombers. They wore an explosive pack and ran at the enemy, then blew themselves up (self propelled ordnance charges, really).
> 
> ...


Wouldn't it make more sense to THROW the bombs at them?
:S

And yeah, it's a bit stupid.
But there would be an amazing amount of whining if they released suicide bombers.
Moreover, prisoners being FORCED to suicide bomb.

I just really think they should have the execution thing that commissars do, because it says in their fluff.


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Yes, but the point of "penitents" is that they ARE repentant, and are seeking forgiveness (by whatever means) for their immortal souls. They aren't so much 'forced' to do it, but are volunteered. Dying in absolution is better than living in shame.

(The ministorum ARE religious fanatics, after all.)

It's the linking of suicide bombers and "the good guys" (Imperium) that's the unacceptable bit.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

chromedog said:


> Yes, but the point of "penitents" is that they ARE repentant, and are seeking forgiveness (by whatever means) for their immortal souls. They aren't so much 'forced' to do it, but are volunteered. Dying in absolution is better than living in shame.
> 
> (The ministorum ARE religious fanatics, after all.)
> 
> It's the linking of suicide bombers and "the good guys" (Imperium) that's the unacceptable bit.


The Imperium AREN'T the good guys though.
The only actual good guys in 40k are the Tau.
The Eldar are the next closest, because they bear no constant hostility towards the 'good' races, Imperium and Tau, because everything else is basically evil bastards.

The problem is the stupid people who misconceive things horrendously, who happen to be largely American.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Back to the OP.. I would recommend getting some necromunda models. They're great for making mismatched IG troops. Orlocks are a bunch of crazies, and their box comes with lots of spare bits to equip them in several ways, with pistols, swords, chainswords and whatnot.

I just finished modelling a bunch of necromunda models for my IG platoon included in my sister army. Using Eschers are my special weapon squad and my HQ squad.
Took me 2 days to replace their guns with melta guns, but once the vox officer is done, the squad will be ready to be painted.
THe SWP squad has 3 plasma wielding eschers and 3 regular eschers.

Finally, my IG moshpit will be a mix of delaque, orlock and eschers ( and any other models I can get my hands on, planning on buying a bunch 2nd hand from someone over here when he finds them between his junk again  )


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## englanda (Dec 2, 2008)

Winterous said:


> The Imperium AREN'T the good guys though.
> The only actual good guys in 40k are the Tau.
> The Eldar are the next closest, because they bear no constant hostility towards the 'good' races, Imperium and Tau, because everything else is basically evil bastards.
> 
> The problem is the stupid people who misconceive things horrendously, who happen to be largely American.


The eldar are hardly good guys, they allowed slaanesh to be born. Eldrad also condemned billions of humans to die to save a few eldar.

Also, lets try and keep the america bashing off of the forums. Americans as a population really get a bad rep, usually from people who've never met one. Americans != TV Americans. People is people, respect that.

Don't get me started on those bloody aussies...  kidding of course.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

englanda said:


> The eldar are hardly good guys, they allowed slaanesh to be born. Eldrad also condemned billions of humans to die to save a few eldar.
> 
> Also, lets try and keep the america bashing off of the forums. Americans as a population really get a bad rep, usually from people who've never met one. Americans != TV Americans. People is people, respect that.
> 
> Don't get me started on those bloody aussies...  kidding of course.


I'm not bashing Americans, I'm just stating what I believe to be a fact.
From what I have heard, a large amount of the over-conservative protesters in the world are American.

And I didn't say the Eldar were GOOD, I just said they were the NEXT BEST to Tau.
Tau are the only race with good intentions.
Eldar just want to survive, at whatever cost to whoever else.
The Imperium (although founded on bad experiences with aliens) just want to wipe the xenos from the galaxy.
Everything else is evil, basically.


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

@Winterous: Oh, I know the Imperium aren't the good guys. The tau aren't them either - the whole point of 40k is that there are NO good-guys. Just varying kinds of badguy. Even the saints are homicidal and xenocidal maniacs.

However, the marketing guys would disagree. In a pvp tactical combat simulation table-top game, there has to be a "good guy" and a "bad guy" in order to sell it in certain markets. The spiky guys cavort with demons, so they are "bad". They are opposed (primarily) by the bright blue poster-boys, so they MUST be the "good" guys as demons=bad. Also, most people (MOST people, not MOST GAMING PEOPLE) will identify more with the HUMAN forces as "the good guys", so they become de facto "the good guys".

That WE (the people who actually play the game) might know better is irrelevant to them.


On Topic: My two squads are primarily catachans, with a handful of the old "penitents" and "human bombs" thrown in for old-times sake. There are also two Tallarn models I use for "ordnance charges" (mortarman covering his ears) - the other tallarn models I have are all used in my Necromunda Ash Wastes gang (there was no use for the two mortarmen. The other crewman is at least CARRYING a gun).

I don't play in a GW store, and ALL of the adults I play with play 40k over beers, and we don't take any aspect of the game seriously. YMMV.

PS. The Americans I have met (IRL) have mostly been pleasant people. Some even understand the aussie sense-of-humour (which can seem a trifle odd to many outsiders).


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

chromedog said:


> However, the marketing guys would disagree. In a pvp tactical combat simulation table-top game, there has to be a "good guy" and a "bad guy" in order to sell it in certain markets. The spiky guys cavort with demons, so they are "bad". They are opposed (primarily) by the bright blue poster-boys, so they MUST be the "good" guys as demons=bad. Also, most people (MOST people, not MOST GAMING PEOPLE) will identify more with the HUMAN forces as "the good guys", so they become de facto "the good guys".


Unfortunately, that's exactly the mindset that leads to habitual wars.
Each side thinks "We're fighting them, I'm me, therefore, my side is the good side.".
And neither side realises that all they're doing is killing each other for something that didn't matter in the first place.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Da Orkses is gud! Gud at killin stuff, hurhurhur!

Seriously though, Orks aren't evil, this isn't LotR, Orks just fight because it's what they were born to do - there's no inherent desire for badness for the sake of it. 

On topic: When I (eventually) make up some Penal Legionnaires, they're all going to be in orange jumpsuits, and all in identical poses, doing the Thriller dance.


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## englanda (Dec 2, 2008)

Winterous said:


> I'm not bashing Americans, I'm just stating what I believe to be a fact.
> From what I have heard, a large amount of the over-conservative protesters in the world are American.


Well, that's your opinion and you're certainly welcome to it. Of course, there are ultraconservative whack jobs in America, just like there are over zealous liberals too. In fact, there are crazy people in every corner of the planet. Grouping every American in the world into your black and white little boxes is equivalent to racism, and I don't hear much of that on these forums. Not trying to start a flame war, I'd just rather you not bash the country I live in and the people I've come to love over the years. And before you discount my opinion because I'm one of your "facts", I'm not, I'm a Brit who has lived here for many years.

Anyway, I'm done on this subject.. what was the topic again?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

englanda said:


> Well, that's your opinion and you're certainly welcome to it. Of course, there are ultraconservative whack jobs in America, just like there are over zealous liberals too. In fact, there are crazy people in every corner of the planet. Grouping every American in the world into your black and white little boxes is equivalent to racism, and I don't hear much of that on these forums. Not trying to start a flame war, I'd just rather you not bash the country I live in and the people I've come to love over the years. And before you discount my opinion because I'm one of your "facts", I'm not, I'm a Brit who has lived here for many years.
> 
> Anyway, I'm done on this subject.. what was the topic again?


But, I didn't bash your opinion..?
It's not necessarily MY opinion either, I realise that it's an irrational thing to think without proof to back it up.
I don't like Americans as a whole, with very little reason, so while I think to myself "lol they're dumb " I don't actually let it influence my actions, because I know that I have no reason to believe it.
It's like how I don't hate black people, but I do notice them because they're different, it's just because I haven't been brought up in a place where there are a lot of black people, I see them from time to time, but it's FAR from 1/10.

All I was saying is that, from all the evidence I have gathered (videos on youtube, news of people ranting about violent video games and such), is that at least 70% of instances have been Americans.


And the Topic was Penal Legionnaires.
Does anyone take more than one unit of them in an army?
They're a good unit in the right situation, but they're a bit costly and it's only 10 models in 5+ armour, so they're an easy kill point.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

> And the Topic was Penal Legionnaires.
> Does anyone take more than one unit of them in an army?
> They're a good unit in the right situation, but they're a bit costly and it's only 10 models in 5+ armour, so they're an easy kill point


That's why I find them less than desirable. They are very expensive for an unreliable gizmo, and they die easily, so stopping said gizmo from threatening you is pretty easy.

I'd rather spend more points on a good IG Moshpit.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I think if taking any Penal Legion, at least 3 units is best - gives you the requisite numbers for them to swarm potentially Rending attacks on one enemy - imagine 30 Rending Guard against 10 MA Nobz! :laugh:


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> I think if taking any Penal Legion, at least 3 units is best - gives you the requisite numbers for them to swarm potentially Rending attacks on one enemy - imagine 30 Rending Guard against 10 MA Nobz! :laugh:


Those points costs are HORRIBLY disproportionate 
But um, 30 attacks, hit on 4+, wound on 5+ (rending on 6+).

Processing...


You're looking at 2.5 rends, and another 2.5 wounds.
I'd average that to 3 kills.

Keep in mind, they don't HAVE to use their power klaws, so they could just use regular attacks at the same initiative as you


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

for the same points as 3 penal legions, you could get:

4 squads of regular IG, with sergeant with PW, and a single commissar, and apriest with Eviscerator. That's 5 powerweapons, ld9, stubborn, reroll on leadership, reroll to hit on the charge and a powerfist with 2d6 armour penetration.

If straken or Creed is around, this results in:

At I4:
20 PW attacks => 15 hits => 7.5 wounds
108 regular attacks => 81 hits, 40 Armour saves => another 6 2/3 wounds

At I1:
4 PF attacks => 3 hits => 2 1/2 wounds

and instead of 30 wounds, you have 43 wounds in total in the group, better leadership, and a reroll on leadership.


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

So basically Penal Legion troops aren't worth it then, hehe...I still find it funny how crazy soldiers can somehow "rend" their hands through power armour, probably by using extra long finger nails or *gasp*...combs! I dunno some of their powers don't really make sense to me, except maybe gunslingers but even that power seems a bit underwhelming, they're just like possessed, but to me a bit worse.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Grimskul25 said:


> So basically Penal Legion troops aren't worth it then, hehe...I still find it funny how crazy soldiers can somehow "rend" their hands through power armour, probably by using extra long finger nails or *gasp*...combs! I dunno some of their powers don't really make sense to me, except maybe gunslingers but even that power seems a bit underwhelming, they're just like possessed, but to me a bit worse.


It DOES say they get knives 
The point of it is they're good with them, and they know how to go for weak spots in the armour.

Psychopaths makes sense, any way you look at it, and is actually quite good.

And Gunslingers is great, because they can provide pretty heavy fire support while on the move.


Does anyone know if the Furious Charge bonus applies when you Counter Attack?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Winterous said:


> Does anyone know if the Furious Charge bonus applies when you Counter Attack?


It does not, Counter Attack only confers the Assault Bonus, which is the +1 A.


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

Winterous said:


> It DOES say they get knives
> The point of it is they're good with them, and they know how to go for weak spots in the armour.
> 
> Psychopaths makes sense, any way you look at it, and is actually quite good.
> ...


Yeah I think it does because basically in the BGB it says it treats as if you charged as well which means you probably get the +Strength and Inititave as well as the extra attack. Oh by the way I guess the Penal Legionnaires could possibly get rending that way but I still find it a bit far fetched seeing a com-..er...kitchen knife slicing through a space marine's power armour, even if it is the joint. Perhaps they're using power knives....:scare:


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> It does not, Counter Attack only confers the Assault Bonus, which is the +1 A.


Thought so, Straken would be too good if it did.


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