# sneaky space marine sargeants



## Girbrother2 (May 6, 2007)

first post! ok, SM tactical squads are average and borderline sucky in terms of cc. however, if you are tired of loosing your valuable, objective taking tactical squads USE THIS TACTIC AT LEAST IN ONE SQUAD! remember that option to take termi honors for 15 points. then, give him a POWER FIST for 20 points. if you feel it is neccessary, bestow upon him artificer armour. say, for example you charge to take an objective, when all of a sudden, raptors assault you. under normal circumstances, you're toast, but you have a mini character,yay! the reason why sms (tactical squads) suck is not bexause they are weak, but because they have no ofensive capabilities.puting youre sergeant in front and let the blood bath begin. dont worry about the others, as the 3+ save does its job. works on any squad with avg-high assault capabilities.


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

I thought most people do things like this.

Not to nit pick, but hit the enter key! :lol:


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## Nivlac (Feb 13, 2007)

thank you captain obvious


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Using a VSgt w/ Powerfist is pretty standard in many Marine armies.

The split squads in DA make them really powerful.

6x 5man single Las squads
3x 5man quad heavy bolter squads
9x 5man combat squads, 6 melta/plasmaguns, 9 powerfist armed VSgts.

18 Scoring units, 90 Marines, tons of tank/infantry killing power.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

aye, that is often one thing marine armies cannot do without!


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

sorry to burst your bubble, but it's quite pointless giving your sergeant artificer armour as you always use the majority armour save... unless your opponent can cause 10+ wounds in one 'I' step, you can't use the 2+ save...

the other reason giving your sergeant a different save is because it makes him vulnerable to enemy sniping... under the 'torrent of fire/blows' rules, it's possible to pick out a single enemy model.

cheers!


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## Girbrother2 (May 6, 2007)

kay:


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## Nivlac (Feb 13, 2007)

welcome to the forum gil thanks for shareing your knowledge. . even if most of us knew it already. thats what this page is about any way.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

If you think SM Tactical Squads try using Imperial Guardsmen, Guardians, Fire Warriors...or any non Space Marine troops.

And yes, a power fist is mandatory- without it any monster or hero or dreadnought can chew through your squad. With it they are very hesitant to charge in.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

A plasma pistol is mandatory as well. Great for softening up armor and units.


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## nightmarine (Mar 30, 2007)

actually my army includes no SM vet sergeants with power fists. i prefer to uber a command squad and use tacticals for fire support.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

'ZOMG command squad' units tend to fall over right when you need them most, especially if you're weakening the rest of your list to play them. they may work in casual games against people who aren't particularly good, but if you ever intend on fighting real battles, they're just too much.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

> actually my army includes no SM vet sergeants with power fists. i prefer to uber a command squad and use tacticals for fire support.


"Oh goodie, my opponent has put all his combat threats in one easy, bite-size unit, I can take them out first."


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## anathema (Jan 24, 2007)

Jeridian said:


> > actually my army includes no SM vet sergeants with power fists. i prefer to uber a command squad and use tacticals for fire support.
> 
> 
> "Oh goodie, my opponent has put all his combat threats in one easy, bite-size unit, I can take them out first."


Harsh but fair. Blinged out single squads tend to be priority targets because while they may be dangerous, mainly they net you a lot of points and are the crux of your opponents battle plan. Redundancy is where its at.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

pathwinder14 said:


> A plasma pistol is mandatory as well. Great for softening up armor and units.


I would say its useful but not mandatory, especially if your SGT has a power fist, you might end up blowing him up at a crucial moment, always happens when you don't want it to happen

plus it can make him a tad more exspensive


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

experiment 626 said:


> sorry to burst your bubble, but it's quite pointless giving your sergeant artificer armour as you always use the majority armour save... unless your opponent can cause 10+ wounds in one 'I' step, you can't use the 2+ save...
> 
> the other reason giving your sergeant a different save is because it makes him vulnerable to enemy sniping... under the 'torrent of fire/blows' rules, it's possible to pick out a single enemy model.
> 
> cheers!


Yes, but the models with the lower save die first. There's an example about it in the BBB, something about a BT squad w/ neophytes and initiates. So, the SM sergeant would still live. In that case, I say, if you have the points to burn, go for it.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Cadian81st said:


> Yes, but the models with the lower save die first. There's an example about it in the BBB, something about a BT squad w/ neophytes and initiates. So, the SM sergeant would still live. In that case, I say, if you have the points to burn, go for it.


the problem is the sergeant becomes an easy target... sure he'll still be safe and sound to start with, but after even 3-4 casulties, it becomes very easy to cause more wounds than there are models in the squad and thus 'mixed armour' becomes a disadvantage as your sergeant will take his own set of wounds... (as a side note, torrent of fire still only ever allows a single wound at most to be singled out onto your sergeant!)
for example, if the squad is down to say 4 regular marines & 1 sergeant w/artificer armour, every 5th wound must be allocated to the sergeant during each set of wounding hits. when causing say 10 wounds to such a squad, 8 wounds will go against the regular marines, but 2 wounds must go on the sergeant.

it's honestly a safer bet to just leave him with his 3+ save. plus there's infinately better ways to spend those extra pts... (you can get 4 melta bombs for example for the same cost as 1 suit of artificer armour!)

cheers!


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## Elric of Melnibone (Feb 9, 2007)

pathwinder14 said:


> A plasma pistol is mandatory as well. Great for softening up armor and units.


Yes it is always good to have the guy with the weapon that everyone fears (the powerfist) contemplate committing suicide by having a Plasma Pistol

:wink:


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

> Yes it is always good to have the guy with the weapon that everyone fears (the powerfist) contemplate committing suicide by having a Plasma Pistol


Hadn't thought of it that way, will be giggling when that happens again (though I haven't seen anyone foolish enough to take plasma pistols for a long time).


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

True, that is a risk I take, but is has paid off so far. I have yet to lose a squad seargent that way. Maybe I'm lucky? Fortune favors the bold.


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

it's funny, whenever I take plasmas for a model w/ a save of 4 or higher, it never overheats. And even then, I've only ever had one overheat anyway.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

a plamsa pistol for your ver.sarg is a good way to spend the points left over when youv got all the basics. otherwise its a no. it does seem a little silly to risk a 40 point model though.


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

Hespithe said:


> Using a VSgt w/ Powerfist is pretty standard in many Marine armies.
> 
> The split squads in DA make them really powerful.
> 
> ...


Yes this sounds terrifying, if it only wasn’t like 2000+ pts

And then you only have like footslogging guys without any HQ...
But it would look impressive on the table though.

If you reduce the army some what you could end up with:

Ezekiel – Makes all with in 12” Fearless and he is handy with the sword.

5 Squads with LasCan, Meltagun and PowFist Sgt. Split them in too two teams.
2 Squads with 4 x Heavy bolters and PowWeap Sgt. Split them also in two teams

Gives you 14 scoring units (71 models) and provided they stay close to Ezekiel are Fearless.
NASTY!!!

This list is exactly 1750pts of slow moving death…


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

i've been doing this for 4 years now its not really new.

power fists are 15pts for sgts not 20


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

Lord Sinkoran said:


> i've been doing this for 4 years now its not really new.
> 
> power fists are 15pts for sgts not 20


No need too jump his balls any more, it’s been pointed out before and yes its one of the oldest tricks in the new book.

BTW, it does depend on the army you are equipping with power fist and what unit.

For DA its 25 for a Vet. Sgt in a Tactical squad and for SM its 15 for a Vet. Sgt, but you also have to pay for the terminator honours and that’s another 15 pts. So you could argue that its actually 30pts 

I for one enjoyed reading some of the thoughts about how and why you equip your vet. Sgt. actually I learned something’s and I have been playing since 1998 (yes I know I am such a newbie).


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

> For DA its 25 for a Vet. Sgt in a Tactical squad and for SM its 15 for a Vet. Sgt, but you also have to pay for the terminator honours and that’s another 15 pts. So you could argue that its actually 30pts


So a DA Sgt with Fist is 40pts- there's no way of fiddling the stats to make DA come of better on this one.


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## nightmarine (Mar 30, 2007)

(about the earlier comments on my strategy) you dont want to do that. like i sadi, the rest of my army is on fire suppoort duty. that dev squad=missile launcher hell. OMG theres a squad with a lascannon (damnit there goes my russ) Charge them! wait is that a razorback right there? *h bolter sound* AHH THE PAIN! OMG my leader just got instakilled by the force weapon. There are so many power swords and plasma pistols...must...run...for...life! I think ill shoot them. Oh crap, now my other russ is scrap because it was killing the command squad and the heavy support got it (again) not my day.

(basic victory against IG and witch hunters for me)

dont say its a bad idead to do that. it works if u do it right. That strategy spawned for me from a black templar game against the lost and the damned army list between Grahm McNeil and Andy,...Oh cant remember his last name off hand, that took place in a white dwarf magazine. It works and even when it doesnt, its one helluva good time.


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## dakari-mane (Mar 9, 2007)

@ nightmarine - Uh what are you trying to say? Your post makes no sence. :? :?:


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I get what he's saying, check some of his earlier posts in this thread and explains his prefered use of a command squad which gets panned by several people, which he is now rebutting.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

> (about the earlier comments on my strategy) you dont want to do that. like i sadi, the rest of my army is on fire suppoort duty. that dev squad=missile launcher hell. OMG theres a squad with a lascannon (damnit there goes my russ) Charge them! wait is that a razorback right there? *h bolter sound* AHH THE PAIN! damit my leader just got instakilled by the force weapon. There are so many power swords and plasma pistols...must...run...for...life! I think ill shoot them. Oh dam, now my other russ is scrap because it was killing the command squad and the heavy support got it (again) not my day.


 :shock: 
was there any need for this at all?


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

Jeridian said:


> > For DA its 25 for a Vet. Sgt in a Tactical squad and for SM its 15 for a Vet. Sgt, but you also have to pay for the terminator honours and that’s another 15 pts. So you could argue that its actually 30pts
> 
> 
> So a DA Sgt with Fist is 40pts- there's no way of fiddling the stats to make DA come of better on this one.


Nope, that’s the cost you pay!

The biggest problem with DA is the mandatory Vet. Sgt. together with the lack of and high cost for upgrades.

A list based on mostly standard equipped none special units of SM will be 10-15% cheaper than DA and the HQ can be equipped with cool stuff that you can’t field in a DA list.

But then again I don’t really see the point in over equipping your poor Sgt.; he is better of with a power weapon or fist. But for fluffy and friendly games it kind of sucks that it’s not possible to make a power Sgt. Or even tool your Commander with cool special stuff.
___

TACTICA Vet. Sgt. V2.0

Another thing to consider in these tactics is that you don’t need the Sgt. to be in base-contact with the enemy. He could be kicking back in the middle of the squad as long as he is with in 2” from a model in base-contact. This is great if you come up against some one who is able to direct attacks against targets in base-contact.

*Before the flaming starts:*
This is not news to most of you, but as it looks there are people who haven’t played as long or are as good as everybody else I thought it would be a good thing to point out


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## nightmarine (Mar 30, 2007)

i felt the need to post that, they were bashing my strategy earlier...removed the swearing.


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## Initiate (Mar 25, 2007)

umm its really pointless for sergeants, but i take a master-crafted plasma pistol with my Hq choices sometimes and it really saves your life. virtually takes away the overheat.


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