# Strength of Primarchs



## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

Sorry to make another thread about primarchs when there is a flood of them, but this is a simple question. 



How strong are the primarchs? I always knew they were tough, but I went to the bookstore, picked up a random Horus Heresy book, and I opened right to a page where some primarch killed an Eldar war Avatar in head to head combat. Ummm..... He did what!? I cannot remember the book nor the primarch, but it said that he choked the Avatar with his hands and physically beat the Avatar in the face with his fists. How would that be possible considering that the Avatar is made of lava? That whole fight was cool and all, but it was a bit over the top. 

Any comments?


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## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

Thats Fulgrim, yeah he crushes an Avatars head between his hands after he distracts it.
It can happen since the avatar is made of metal and lava so while Fulgrim does crush him it nearly costs him his hands.
As to how strong primarchs are...it differs, at Isstvaan Corax rips off the turret of a pred and throws a rock through a marines neck however Vulkan just plain pushes a pred over without breaking a sweat.
I think that Vulkan and Ferrus are probably the strongest with maybe Perturabo and Angron after them.


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## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

I dont know but I do know that a "regular" Space Wolf nearly destroyed Magnus at the first Battle of the Fang. "Nearly" being the key word there.

edit: Magnus's physical form was nearly destroyed


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## stephen.w.langdon (Jan 1, 2012)

Am pretty sure that is was Leman Russ in Prospero Burns,

And you have to remember that it was someone retelling the story, I am sure it didn’t actually happen within the book itself so the person retelling probably had some poetic license to the story.

I also hate to admit it as an Eldar Player but there are probably some Special Characters out there in the 40K universe that could go toe-to-toe with the Avatar, so would not be out of the realms of possibility that Leman Russ could go toe-to-toe with one as well


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## stephen.w.langdon (Jan 1, 2012)

Captain Stillios said:


> Thats Fulgrim, yeah he crushes an Avatars head between his hands after he distracts it.


lol didn't see this post, maybe I am wrong in thinking it was Leman Russ :laugh: am sure there was an acount in Prospero Burns though from an IG Officer about how brutal the Space Wolves are and they used the destruction of a Craftworld to explain this so thought of this


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

It depends slightly on the writer. But Primarchs are the very definition of beast. Even as an avid Eldar dedicated fan I would find unfair if a Primarch could not beat an Avatar. 

I am a little at odds with how he did it, throwing his sword up in the air and then punching it .... yeah, this avatar must have the mental speed of someone with an IQ of 7 or so, but when you are made out of metal and fire I guess it can be excused.


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## oOChrisOo (Feb 14, 2012)

> Am pretty sure that is was Leman Russ in Prospero Burns,


*Possibility of a spoiler if you haven't read battle of the fang and want too.*

Nope its in battle of the fang, and its a wolf lord and his wolf guard attacking, Magnus then kills them, then Bjorn the dreadnaught attacks eventually he throws himself and Magnus out of the hanger in the fang, barely surviving the fall as a dreadnaught and only being found the next day or so. Magnus survive's and then fights the great wolf and he also dies. Although they do a lot of damage to Magnus they still don't kill him as he vanishes without any way of knowing where or how.


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## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

cegorach said:


> I am a little at odds with how he did it, throwing his sword up in the air and then punching it .... yeah, this avatar must have the mental speed of someone with an IQ of 7 or so, but when you are made out of metal and fire I guess it can be excused.


Lol 

I used to think that to but I think that it went something like this:
*Slaanesh* daemon inside of the sword.
Avatar is more interested in fighting a servant of Slaanesh than some measly huma- *Avatar gets its head kicked in*


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## bobahoff (Nov 24, 2011)

is it so difficult to believe that a primarch smashed an avatar, marneus calgar did it


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## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

Yes but he was wearing power fists, Fulgrim had his hands...


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

And Marneus Calgar didn't just crush one's throat (a thin, weak point), he punched through it's torso (one of the toughest areas). I don't think that even a Primarch could do that.

Midnight


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> And Marneus Calgar didn't just crush one's throat (a thin, weak point), he punched through it's torso (one of the toughest areas). I don't think that even a Primarch could do that.
> 
> Midnight


Yeah but during that fight the Avatar was being attacked by many Ultramarines and was under heavy fire and had battled it's way through loads of them already right!? (Just please nod and smile, this is the only way I can stop myself from raging about it, if you destroy my ignorance about this then I don't think I would recover)


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## gridge (Feb 11, 2012)

There seems to be little in the way of checks and balances and therefore their power levels have a pretty wide range. Take for example bullets bouncing off of Corax's unarmored skin in Deliverance Lost. This may have already been established in the fluff but I for one don't recall off the top of my head any other instance of them being bullet-proof (even to mundane slugs as was the case in Gav's book).


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## SuperSquid (Feb 5, 2011)

sorry cegorach, the avatar battled a single scout who was using a bolt pistol. Calgar then walked up and punched it. (*evil laughter* muahahahahahahahah)

[ignorance destroyed, my work is done here]


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Primarchs are physical beasts. As others have mentioned, Fulgrim pulped an Avatar's head with one punch and then choked it out. Corax has been shown to rip apart pieces of tanks, and when he was hit with hard slug bullets it was described as a 'stinging' sensation. Vulkan simply bitch slaps tanks out of the way. He also seemed to beat up giant deadly lizards with little effort back on his home planet. Ferrus Manus overpowered and drowned a giant living metal beast, and then we got Angron who powered through having a few thousand tons of rock dumped on his head in a manner very reminiscent of the Hulk. So yeah, primarchs are pretty strong.


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## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

I think each group has their version of special power full individual being. 

Elder has the avatar.
Deamon has the bloodthirsters or deamon prince
Necrons has the C'tan 
Tyranid has the Tyrannofex or the Swarmload. 
Imperial used to have the Primarchs now it's just the best of best space marines. 

Primarch strength level suppose to be almost the same as a bloodthirsters . Game wise strength and toughness is anywhere from 6 or 7 and weapon skill 7 or higher. 

So in fluff what does this mean? From ..reading "Know no Fear" , Guilliman was able to punch through the bodies of traitor space marine even without wearing his power fist. Vulkan was able flip tanks like nothing. Modern tanks weigh anywhere from 70-80 tons if not more but this is modern tanks. Have no idea how much the 40K tanks weighs. 

I also remember reading in "Fulgrim" , when Ferrus punched Fulgrim face it was describe that the impact of the punch is strong enough to damage a dreadnought or was it terminator helmet can't remember but there was little damage to Fulgrim face. 


So a primarch is pretty damn strong. If Game work shop every bring them back they be like the monstrosity level strong.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Primarchs are capable of supernatural feats like this precisely because they're supernatural beings. They're not just flesh and bone but beings of the warp. This is why they can defy the laws of physics and perform such feats. They all possess latent (or conscious) psychic abilities (whether they know it or not) but also have warp energy as a very part of themselves. 

They're also the peak of genetic engineering and likely some of the most powerful/efficient biological beings to have existed. 

In this specific case though it's likely that the avatar suffered thanks to it's fixation/distraction by the Slaanesh daemon possessed sword.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

I think there are very few things left that equal a Primarch in close combat for the Imperium. Mephiston comes to mind, particularly that he strides to battle alone and ripped the heart from a Nob's chest with his bare hands.. And personally, I think the Wraithlord is stronger than the Avatar.

Primarchs do seem on par with Daemon Princes, but I have to think they would be better, though fluff and tabletop rarely mesh. But Sanguinius had his legs broken by Ka'Bandha and later returned the favor by breaking the Daemon Prince's back. It took the Sanguinor, who is supposed to personify Sanguinius, dropping a Daemon Prince from low orbit to accomplish the same. Though that is still pretty epic.


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

A Leman Russ "Conquerer" variant is 60 tons. I see a Predator, being lighter at about 50 tons; Still an impressive feat for Vulkan to flip one. I see Fulgrim, not being one of the "heavier" primarchs (He's never described as rippling with muscles), probably being able to "shift" 20-30 tons in a pinch... BUT that would only be when the adrenaline is pumping (along with who knows whatever other chemicals the Emperor pumped them full of... Hell, they could have organic combat drug/steroid-producing organs).


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

Talking of Space Wolves and Magnus, Ragnar Blackmane pokes him in the eye in one of the Ragnar novels. 

Other than that I think Primarchs are pretty damn powerful, and not just physically, they have emense psychic power too, whether they choose to use it (Magnus) or not (Mortarian).


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## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

TheReverend said:


> Talking of Space Wolves and Magnus, Ragnar Blackmane pokes him in the eye in one of the Ragnar novels.
> 
> Other than that I think Primarchs are pretty damn powerful, and not just physically, they have emense psychic power too, whether they choose to use it (Magnus) or not (Mortarian).



Oh yea I forgot about that. It hurt (or distracted) Magnus because it was a spear infused with the power of Russ.... or something.


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## El_Lobo (May 24, 2011)

Designation P-90 said:


> Oh yea I forgot about that. It hurt (or distracted) Magnus because it was a spear infused with the power of Russ.... or something.


Just to chip in, the weapon was the Spear of Russ. 

"The Spear of Russ was perhaps the most sacred of all the Space Wolves' holy relics. It was the mystical weapon that the legendary founder of the Chapter had carried into battle..." (Wolfblade pg. 30)

Ragnar hurled it at Magnus to interrupt his summoning to the physical realm.
IIRC it is also mentioned in either Wolfblade or Wolf's Honor that Russ didn't actually favor the weapon :laugh:


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## Sem'ael Elear (Nov 6, 2011)

Its funny because Russ never wielded a spear according to pretty well every other source... But thats ok, I like the idea of it, I see him hunting Giant Squid with it, tying a rope to one end and hurling it at the squid


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

Yeah, Russ hated that weapon and purposly tried to "forget it" on several occasions. I can't remember which of his brothers gave it him. guess that gives me a good enough reasonto re-read the omnibus'


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## El_Lobo (May 24, 2011)

TheReverend said:


> I can't remember which of his brothers gave it him. guess that gives me a good enough reasonto re-read the omnibus'


I want to say it was Sanguinius but Ferrus Manus rings a bell too. 

Bill Kings Spacewolves books were my introduction to 40k and Warhammer in general, and still among my favorite BL products.


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## doofyoofy (Mar 8, 2011)

IRRC it was a gift from the Emporer, which is why he didnt get rid of it. He just didnt like it, so he put it on the shrine at Garm.


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## Sem'ael Elear (Nov 6, 2011)

I did love the Space Wolf omnibus, it actually branched me into reading the Felix and Ghotrek books because I really liked William King.

My first book was Angels of Darkness (I believe) and that got me more into the hobby and my first army, Dark Angels


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

Man, I wish Bill King would finish off the Ragnar series... I told him that too but he says he has no plans too. My second wish is that Chris Wraight does it instead


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