# New IG battling Plaguemarines



## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

so ive been collecting IG for about... 3 years? something like that anyway... and ive been waiting for this new codex for a little while and finally its around the corner. i was wondering how one would utilize this new codex to battle plaguemarines. I ask this because 2 of the people i play with regularly use plaguemarines (1 of those being my brother, so i have to win).

Basically my brother has 4 squads of plague-marines (7 troops each starting in rhinos) , 2 dreadnoughts, 2 vindicators (not very death guardy, but what ever) typhus (sometimes run as a lord), 5 terminators and 2 obliderators---and maybe something else and i cant remember, they are he biggies anyway

im thinking something like 2 sentinel squadrons - 1 with 3 sentinels (plasma cannons) and the other with 2 (lascannons) , 

also 2 devil dogs to bipass the nasty FNP and armour save. i have a demolisher and am thinking of getting another- i might need some more AT

thinking also about getting an executioner- but then again it might just make it a big target for him

im not too worried about making a mec-army but i would like a balance(even if it weighed slightly to armour) and use my men as meatshields

i have a 10 man stormtrooper squad that might come in handy (AP3) and im looking at ratlings for some character hunting (and because i love snipers) 

thats where i run out of ideas, im looking at veterans but ive never used them before so i might need some tactics (and wargear) help with them if you suggest them.

thanks alot for your helpk:


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## BlackTemplar93 (Apr 9, 2009)

playing dg myself i can tell u my weaknesses: 

1.ap2/powerweapons....my absolute bane no as no fnp no NOTHING
2.fast moving armies(eldar, de)theyre just moving around my units and shoot with lots of ap3/2 weapons and i cant even get close to them

well....just put more pw and ap2 guns in your army as well as lots of transports(preferably open topped...something the ig don't have :biggrin: and some big tanks....but wots the point in playing ig without tanks anyway :so_happy: ) h
hope that helps...


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

BlackTemplar93 said:


> playing dg myself i can tell u my weaknesses:
> 
> 1.ap2/powerweapons....my absolute bane no as no fnp no NOTHING
> 2.fast moving armies(eldar, de)theyre just moving around my units and shoot with lots of ap3/2 weapons and i cant even get close to them
> ...


i assumed as much- devil dogs and (plasma)sentinels should help and keep my army mobile...

does anyone else have any suggestions- i have my own cityfight board so... if that helps then...
also i would like an answer on how to include, deck out, and use veterans against the DG, if appropriate

thanks guys


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## officer kerky (Jun 12, 2008)

well i would say drop the ratlings as they are just plain weak.

and theres not much else to say until the codex comes out.


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

officer kerky said:


> well i would say drop the ratlings as they are just plain weak.
> 
> and theres not much else to say until the codex comes out.


you dont think they could stick it out in a building and take out some big players?


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## elkhantar (Nov 14, 2008)

I don't like ratlings too much either, but devildogs and the plasma leman russ variant should give plague marines a good headache (since it can blow the rhino and punish the DG inside).

The gatling gun leman russ variant is also very sweet to deal with terminators due to the high volume of shots it pours (and way more reliable than a lascannon). 

I wouldn't bother with ratlings or the stormtroopers. AP3 may seem nice, but you're wounding on 6's (I assume plague marines are still T5, right? not fully sure with the latest codex).

Anyway, just a general comment: You really want to make an unbalanced list. If you go with a mostly mech army, you are overloading on vehicles and your opponent won't have enough anti-armour to reliably deal with them. If you go low on vehicles, most of his anti-armour weaponry is wasted and he has to deal with hordes (and they can be seriously large with the new codex) and your opponent may be unable to handle them. (Throw enough lasgun shots at terminators and they die, they just need double the shots of a regular marine, but they are also way more expensive!).

If your opponent spent points on versatile units that can handle both threats... then he paid a lot for said versatility and you're good already.

It's when you only have a few vehicles out there and support infantry when his anti-tank weapons can pick and focus on their intended targets and blow them off, granting them the maximum effectiveness.


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

so its a yes on the plasma sentinels and devil dogs... should i include the LC sentinels to take care of his vindicators/dreadnoughts? or should something else work better
and i like the idea of the punisher- but im not convinced because of its cost--- and then i would have to specifically set it up to fight the terminators and i dont like the idea of pigeon-holing its task, i dont know how it would fare against PM's with their 2 saves...


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## elkhantar (Nov 14, 2008)

He won't do too great vs plague marines, I'm afraid, their two saves are simply too good (about 1 plague marine dead per volley, average). You'd be better off with something that ignored both. I think that the best bet would be the plasma russ, since it denies FNP and both marines and regular terminator saves (they still get the invulnerable save, but it's pretty strong anyway). 

Demolisher cannon rounds would work too, but you don't want to be so close.

That said, I only had a (decent) look at the codex so I don't know the costs of things and such.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Devildogs won't be as effective against PM's as they're AP3 (I think) so he'll still get his FNP save.

You're better off with lots of Plasma/Meltaguns; maybe the new Fast Attack Meltacannon-armed Hellhound and of course, Battlecannons!

Stick in a couple of Hydra's to take out Transports early on then pummel the PM's with your tanks and heavy weapons. Missile Launchers (firing Krak) will negate his armour save and FNP (S8>T4)


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Veterans with 3 plasma guns in a chimera should work reasonably well, chimera's have 5 firepoints from which to shoot at them, so you'll have plenty of shots at them with BS4.
Bane wolves, provided they can get close enough should be able to give them a good hunk of pain too, their chemflamer wounds them on a 2+ with AP3, so they only get their FNP againt a flaming template, and these are fast, so you can drive 12" with two of them, and flame his squad to death, then have the last few rapidfired to death from the chimera mentioned above.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I'd steer clear of the Ratlings, at least against Plague Marines. If you're playing on a Cities of Death style table with lots of terrain, the Plague Marines will probably never be out of cover, so even your Rending hits will be of very limited use.

Hydras will be your best bet at cracking open the Rhinos and Dreadnoughts, and if you're careful you might be able to bring down a Vindicator with a side armor shot. Use Veterans with camo cloaks and plasma guns to deal with the Plague Marines and Terminators and either Leman Russ Battle Tanks or Executioners to help out. I'd stay away from Sentinels unless they're the Armored ones, as pretty much everything in his list can blow the crap out of AV10 without effort. A Vendetta or two will make dealing with the Vindicators easy.


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## elkhantar (Nov 14, 2008)

it's the Banewolf the one with the chem template?? that's the one I meant! (so, which one is the devildog?? the melta armed one?) wounding on 2+ and ignoring armour, it's bound to kill a few a shot, even if they get FNP. Furthermore, his marines are likely to be bunched up after blowing up his vehicles, so you can get a real ton of hits per shot.


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Vendettas are your friend.


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

yeah i like the veterans in the rhino idea, and the camo cloaks are good aswell (seperately of course, before you correct me)

ill think about the vendetta, and i didn't even think about the hydra at all.... thanks for the hep

anyone else got anything else to add... keep the comments rolling guys!!


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

so im looking at a sentinel squadron w/ 3 plasma cannons
another w/ 2 lascannons
2 devildogs
chimera w/ veterans (3 plasma guns) ... or w/ the camo cloaks havn't decided-waiting for codex
an executioner 
2 demolishers

can anyone see anything wrong with what i have... or suggest anything else?


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I like the idea of a basic leman russ with plasm sponsons. It's a lot cheaper than a plasma turret and still nukes plague marines well.

Try not to spend too many points on expensive one-shot weapons like vets with plasma spam. Some units like this can work well but be careful how you use them. I would suggest a lascannon and cammo cloaks rather than a chimera for this unit.

Oh yeah, lascannons with everything. You get them for cheap and they are great. I think the best place for a lascannon is an infantry squad as it is then pretty difficult to kill with shooting.

The sentinels are worth a try.


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

Someguy said:


> I like the idea of a basic leman russ with plasm sponsons. It's a lot cheaper than a plasma turret and still nukes plague marines well.


i like this thanks alot, ill definetly have to work this into the list- once i get my codex ill put it up so u guys can get a better look at it, thanks for all your help


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## Ghengis Vaughn (Apr 18, 2009)

/agree with Someguy about the plasma. If you wanted some veteran action I suggest melta guns. From what I understand of the new Dex the melta is actually less points (unconfirmed). On top of that its a stronger weapon and wont kill you on a 1. Granted, you do lose some range with them but from what I know of plague marines they like to get in closer - ish. 
Also, with the vets you can try to be sneaky and infiltrate them closer for some nastier shots.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Meltaguns are five points cheaper than plasma rifles throughout the Codex. Veterans can't Infiltrate in the new Codex, either.

However, the simple solution for Plague Marines continues to be a battle cannon. Pierces their armour, still wounds 'em on 2's, and they don't get FNP against it. The plasma cannon sponsons are all well and good, but on a standard Russ, you don't particularly need them. 

Weight of numbers also will eventually carry the day against Plague Marines, regardless of what you aim at them. Lasguns aren't ideal, since you need sixes to wound and then there's the armor save and FNP, but if you roll enough dice, they'll eventually get through. They're on the table whether you like it or not, after all, so you might as well use 'em. 

I don't normally push low AP weapons in favor of things that throw lots of dice but allow an armor save, but against Plague Marines, the simplest solution really is to just pierce their armour so you're cutting one round of dice rolling (their armor saves) out. It's not a big deal to let Space Marines take their armor saves if it's just to-wound and then saves, but when there's a third round of rolling that negates half the wounds they failed saves for, it's exponentially better to just aim AP3 weapons at them. Stormtroopers may still only wound 'em on 6's, but the AP3 is actually worthwhile in this one instance. 

Valkyries also might be a good investment against Plague Marines. Plague Marine weapons are generally medium ranged at best, and you can take a page from the Tau tactics book with a Valkyrie and use it to redeploy Stormtroopers so they're out of harm's way and still able to fire. The Valkyrie (and the Vendetta) are both absurdly heavily armed for what they are, so they might kill a few along the way, as well. 

If all else fails, charge. Seriously. Guardsmen are actually -safer- in close combat against Space Marines than not, since they get an armor save and hit and wound their opponents the same as if they were shooting. If somebody's got a power fist, you can rack up kills on Plague Marines absurdly fast, since it wounds 'em on 3's and ignores FNP. Conscripts lead by Priests with eviscerators might fit the bill here, as well.


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

The Son of Horus said:


> However, the simple solution for Plague Marines continues to be a battle cannon. Pierces their armour, still wounds 'em on 2's, and they don't get FNP against it. The plasma cannon sponsons are all well and good, but on a standard Russ, you don't particularly need them.


the battle cannon is AP3, i thought it was AP1 and AP2 only that negated the FNP save?????


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

It's S8 which is instant death to T4(5) models.


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## Ferik (Nov 5, 2008)

If you want to just negate their 1 save use the Chem Dog (new Hellhound varient) which wounds on 2's with a Flamer Template and is AP3 and do a squadron for good measure as well.:shok::biggrin:


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

bishop5 said:


> It's S8 which is instant death to T4(5) models.


oh yeah, thanks for the reminder- when does the T 5 apply, im afraid im not too farmiliar with them... only that they are a pain to kill


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

stooge92 said:


> oh yeah, thanks for the reminder- when does the T 5 apply, im afraid im not too farmiliar with them... only that they are a pain to kill


It always applies, save for when determining if the model suffers Instant Death or not.


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

cheers, ill click your daemons !!!


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