# Dark angels tactics Thread



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

with the dark angels now amoungst us, and the roar of screaming engines on the battlefields of the 41st millennium ive started this thread so people can share there thoughts on how to get the most from the new codex.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

General options I see being viable:

1. Deathwing. Pretty much exactly the same as the old Codex, but more emphasis on shooting (good) and on Deathwing Assault (due to the associated, very powerful, Vengeful Strike).
2. Ravenwing. Increase in base Toughness, their own special units, and Ravenwing-only heavy support. I see Biker armies becoming popular despite the forced Teleport Homers.
3. Dualwing. Dualwing is viable as an entire army, with Azrael unlocking all Troops, but since Azrael is a horrible synergizer with the list, I think it'll be more common to see Sammael and Bikes as fast, tough Troops and Deathwing as Elites (due to larger squad sizes). Ravenwing affordable and tough enough to take many, so the Teleport Homers are actually useful.
4. Greenwing. So many buffs it's unreal. The Sacred Standards, cheaper Tacticals, Flakk Missiles, buffed Veterans (same price as 5 Tactical Marines for +1 attack, +1 LD, Stubborn, and as many special weapons as you like).

Combos I've seen so far:
1. 2 Lvl 1 Librarians, Standard of Devastation, bare Command Squads, and cheap Tactical Squads. I think this will prove very popular, as it's cheap and at least upgrades all of your Bolters to Storm Bolters, and at best into a very reliable, tough, 100-shot nightmare of a formation. Park it on an objective in Cover and hope they didn't bring Battle Cannons. Infantry cannot assault this position.
2. Ravenwing and Deathwing. Deathwing improved Deep Strike, and Ravenwing increased viability means that I think the combination of Bikes and Terminators will be very popular. Lacking in combat ability in the last codex, the inclusion of Deathwing Knights and Black Knights means you have an answer to any unit.
3. Debuff + Assault. Lots of Blind in the Dark Angels Codex, which is a highly underrated rule. Funnily enough, it's most effective against Orks and Necrons, the latter of which have the bite taken out of all of their combat units at WS1 due to a very high Power:Attacks ratio, and the former of which are crippled, plain and simple. Grenade Launchers and the various Stasis weapons are also particularly worthy of mention; again, hit a unit with a Stasis Charge or Rad Grenade and then hit them with the Mace of Redemption or Rift Cannon and have some fun.

Midnight


----------



## Routine (Sep 25, 2011)

^ as mentioned above, I think bikes may turn out to be popular, as they are fast, tough, hit reasonably hard, and have Scout for versatile deployment options. I'm just bummed out I cant ally in some Ravenwing troops as allies, but you take what is available. 

I havent actually proxied anything to give this a try yet, but I was wondering if anyone has considered giving a Ravenwing variation of the Salvo-banner spam a try? yu get 2 or 3 6-man groups of Ravenwing, bring a Ravenwing command squad with the Devestation standard, and you've got 12 or 18 guys with twinlinked, 4-shot bolters, who can fire all four shots after moving 12", and are reliably tough.

Oh, and you dont even give up any shots by taking melta-guns and the like, as you retain the bike's twin-linked bolter, meaning you'd have a squad capable of anti-tank or anti-infantry to a frightening degree.

Midnight, I was wondering if you could expand on what you mean by Azrael lacking synergy with the list? The way I see it, if you take him, you take at least one Tac squad for objective sitting, as the Deathwing/Ravenwing will take the forward roles. You sit him with a tac squad, choose the right Warlord trait from the Dark Angels codex, and you've got an objective sitter of 10 marines and a fairly tough character, all with 2 or 3+ armor, a 4+ invuln, and Feel no pain (within 3" of an objective anyway, but thats where you want them)

Edit: and if anyone ends up trying the Ravenwing/Devestation Standard combo, I'd be interested in hearing how it works out


----------



## Routine (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually, the only issues I can see with either variation of the Devestation standard tactic, is that a) the enemy has obvious priority targets, namely the command squad with the banner and b) the 6 inch range of the salvo effect forces you to run a tighter formation than is normal, and therefore you are more vulnerable to blasts and such


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Routine said:


> Midnight, I was wondering if you could expand on what you mean by Azrael lacking synergy with the list? The way I see it, if you take him, you take at least one Tac squad for objective sitting, as the Deathwing/Ravenwing will take the forward roles. You sit him with a tac squad, choose the right Warlord trait from the Dark Angels codex, and you've got an objective sitter of 10 marines and a fairly tough character, all with 2 or 3+ armor, a 4+ invuln, and Feel no pain (within 3" of an objective anyway, but thats where you want them)


Azrael is less than 40pts shy of a Land Raider. Sammael is a much better character in the list, and you may as well take Terminators as Elites because you've already got abundant tough scoring in the Ravenwing (T5, cheap Darkshroud offers Stealth, Jink). With Sammael, you don't have to sit back with a unit that doesn't really fit in with the list (fast-moving elements, Deep Striking elements, and a static shooting squad with expensive combat character... what?). You could of course take Belial, Terminator Troops, and Ravenwing Fast Attack, which may prove better as you aren't forced to clump all of your Terminators in a 6" bubble around the Ravenwing.

The Standard of Devastation is, in my opinion, a lot worse in a Ravenwing squad. True, Salvo 4 Twin-Linked is awesome, but it's 3 guys on Bikes with Corvus Hammers, Plasma Talons, a Sacred Standard, Teleport Homers, and Hit and Run. Black Knights are a huge target on their own without the extra 2 Black Knights' worth of a Standard as well. Any Imperial Guard, Tau or Dark Eldar player will wipe your Standard from the face of creation in turn 1 unless you're playing in a cityfight with lots of intact, windowless buildings to hide behind. If you can pull it off with a 2 units of Ravenwing and the Command Squad, you're going to do a horrific amount of damage to any Infantry unit within 24", but nobody is going to let you do that without throwing everything they have at you and at the end of the day, you're still just T5 Marines in cover.

Midnight


----------



## Routine (Sep 25, 2011)

Fair points about the standard

My personal preference for Azrael may have something to do with the fact that I try to get as many troops into my list as possible, and would see Deathwing as Elites as a waste if they could be troops for 15pts more

If you were playing full Ravenwing with Deathwing elites, would you just place objectives in your opponent's board half? Because I tend to play a reserved style and therefore end up with at least one objective in my deployment zone, so I suppose my idea of Azrael and the tac squad has alot to do with personal playstyle


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

You would place your Objectives as far forwards as possible, yes.

The 'being Troops for 15pts more' is not really correct - for that, you lose Sammael (who gives you extra Turbo Boost moves, which is great, as well as being a bit of a monster on his own) and instead get a 4+ invulnerable on a squad of Tacticals (realistically, you'll achieve the same with an Aegis Defence Line, which is over 100pts cheaper and gives you Flyer deterrent) and either +1 Reserves (which, with Deathwing Assault, is irrelevant) or Feel No Pain on a squad of Tacticals. All the other Warlord Traits are useless for a backfield Azrael.

You only need to *take* 1 objective. Linebreaker is assured with Deathwing and Ravenwing. Contest all but one objective with Terminators and Black Knights, get one completely clear with the Attack Squadrons, and you'll be fine.

Belial may make a better HQ, although he still has The Hunt and if your opponent's Warlord is in Mega Armour or Terminator Armour you may as well not have the Trait. Terminators in Troops and Bikes in Fast Attack may prove better, and Belial in his squad of bros is a harder nut to crack than Sammael.

Midnight


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> Belial may make a better HQ, although he still has The Hunt and if your opponent's Warlord is in Mega Armour or Terminator Armour you may as well not have the Trait. Terminators in Troops and Bikes in Fast Attack may prove better, and Belial in his squad of bros is a harder nut to crack than Sammael.
> 
> Midnight


Seems like it might depend on what you're interested in doing with them. I would think Troop bikes would be great for securing objectives quickly but I would never leave Deathwing off my list. If you're forced to bring Teleport Homers it just seems stupid to not utilize them, even if it's a 5 man squad simply left in reserve as a last minute monkey-wrench.

Belial seems pretty useful now though in general. If nothing else, just to bring a no-scatter 11 model Terminator unit down where ever he pleases. Tried this dead center of a couple small Chaos squads and Obliterators and Twin-Linked, Split-firing seemed to make a huge difference. Plus the Preferred Enemy I guess, seemed to roll plenty of 1's. Overall this book seems to have far more viable options over the last so I'm not sure if I'll use Belial as often though he did make showing up to the party far easier. The Hunt seems like a fine Trait to me as long as you're equipped for it. TH/SS should work alright, or a Knight squad with Smite maybe.


----------



## Routine (Sep 25, 2011)

Fair points Midnight 

I like how you support your points, rather than getting pissy at a minor difference of opinion like some people do.

I'll have to consider that "contest rather than hold" strategy, as playing to that end would allow me to try out some interesting list options


----------



## paolodistruggiuova (Feb 24, 2010)

I like the idea of the doublewing with DW as elite, well thought 

About the standard of Dev, what about this one?

Power armour command squad
LR crusader (with hurricane bolters)
2/3 full ravenwing units

The lr improve both the range and survivability of the standard and the bikes can match its speed.

edit: ofc the LR now shoots 12 tl bolter shots per side


----------



## Routine (Sep 25, 2011)

Here's a fun thought.. If you put that squad in a LR Crusader, would the Crusader's 6 bolters, which are part of its Hurricane bolters, each count as 4 shot weapons? The bolters are still bolters, the Crusader just happens to take 3 of them on each side. Thoughts?


----------



## CE5511 (Apr 16, 2011)

@Routine: Thats actually a fairly nasty idea :grin:
I would have to ask if a vehicle counts as a "unit", if yes then yes, if no then no



One thought I have. Turn one Drop pod assault with locator beacons, turn two deathwing assault. I imagine you could do the same with ravenwing in place of pods, but this is really going to hurt


----------



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Why not both bikes and DPs, gives you a lot better choices and forces the other player think hard.


----------



## paolodistruggiuova (Feb 24, 2010)

Routine said:


> Here's a fun thought.. If you put that squad in a LR Crusader, would the Crusader's 6 bolters, which are part of its Hurricane bolters, each count as 4 shot weapons? The bolters are still bolters, the Crusader just happens to take 3 of them on each side. Thoughts?


yes that was part of the combo


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Honestly, I think the Teleport Homers are vastly overrated. They're cool as standard gear for Ravenwing, but paying points for them is not something I'd like to do. The Deathwing operate best at 24" (all their guns have range, but out of Plasma rapid-fire) as they operate at the same efficiency at 24" and 6". As such, I never have troubles Deep Striking them in a safe location due to the clarity of the board on Turn 1 and the very much safer proposition of landing in Difficult Terrain.

Midnight


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

CE5511 said:


> @Routine: Thats actually a fairly nasty idea :grin:
> I would have to ask if a vehicle counts as a "unit", if yes then yes, if no then no


Of course a vehicle is a "unit", of one as it has an entry I believe and you would be in range if embarked. Unless they FAQ that a banner must be on the table disembarked to work. Which would actually make more sense as it's literally a Space Marine cheerleader. 



CE5511 said:


> One thought I have. Turn one Drop pod assault with locator beacons, turn two deathwing assault. I imagine you could do the same with ravenwing in place of pods, but this is really going to hurt


I'm guessing that's why Deathwing Assault now lets you delay it so that you can use options like that. I think it would depend on what you're fighting because for the price of a Drop Pod and a unit you could just take Belial to not scatter. On the other hand a large blast Deathwind might be good if you land it right next to a blob of squishy things. Although a Venerable Dreadnaught jumping out of a Drop Pod with a Deathwing backup could be interesting.




MidnightSun said:


> Honestly, I think the Teleport Homers are vastly overrated. They're cool as standard gear for Ravenwing, but paying points for them is not something I'd like to do. The Deathwing operate best at 24" (all their guns have range, but out of Plasma rapid-fire) as they operate at the same efficiency at 24" and 6". As such, I never have troubles Deep Striking them in a safe location due to the clarity of the board on Turn 1 and the very much safer proposition of landing in Difficult Terrain.
> 
> Midnight


It would be nice if the Homers were an upgrade but I still enjoy the mind games you can play with them. I mean you don't even have to plan on Deepstriking with them to make some people worry.I wouldn't say Deathwing as just the same at 24" as they are at 6" entirely though when you can arm them for CC. In the case of heavy armor or +2 saves I prefer to get closer but otherwise yeah, I would stay farther away. I think most of the times I've used it to get up close were to mop up things like Landraiders.


----------



## lazencantm (Mar 29, 2011)

I have a tactical question with the use of Belial. Does it seem to be a necessity to give him the thunder hammer and storm shield?

In my list, my deathwing are meant to be at range, and only engage in cc if I couldn't do something to prevent it. So, from that perspective, I'm looking at an HQ in a shooty army with no guns. If th/ss is considered the tactically smart decision, then why is survivability more important than usefulness? (Other than victory points) Thanks for any input!


----------



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

For your DW to be in shooting range they are in range of being assaulted by the other army in the next turn. You need to consider if you want him to have the better survivability and ability to kill ap2 when this happens or if you instead want him to shoot.


----------



## lazencantm (Mar 29, 2011)

scscofield said:


> For your DW to be in shooting range they are in range of being assaulted by the other army in the next turn. You need to consider if you want him to have the better survivability and ability to kill ap2 when this happens or if you instead want him to shoot.


Well, I don't know where I fall. His sword of silence is ap3, fleshbane and master-crafted... and of course his storm bolter and he get presicion shot on 5+. But with th/ss his invuln save improves by 1, and the thunder hammer is ap2 str x2, but no ranged.

Personally, when I look at it like that, I feel that he should only be given th/ss if you're planning on getting him into cc. But again, I don't know. That's at least how I'm looking at it.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

scscofield said:


> For your DW to be in shooting range they are in range of being assaulted by the other army in the next turn. You need to consider if you want him to have the better survivability and ability to kill ap2 when this happens or if you instead want him to shoot.


You know that Terminators gain NO short-ranged advantage, correct? Their guns are exactly the same at 24" as at 6", as I've said, and I know no armies woth reliable 24" charges. Belial used to need the Storm Shield because he had a shitty invuln and weapon. Now that he has an Iron Halo and Fleshbane on the Sword, he doesn't need the extra. Shooting > Combat.

Midnight


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

lazencantm said:


> Personally, when I look at it like that, I feel that he should only be given th/ss if you're planning on getting him into cc. But again, I don't know. That's at least how I'm looking at it.


If you're planning on getting him into cc and need him to smash things or really find yourself needing that ++3. Beyond that Fleshbane should at least let you spam wounds if AP3 isn't enough to force invul saves.


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Little confusion on the lrc + bolter banner thing people are saying. The description for the banner clearly says bolters, not heavy bolters, or hurricane bolters. Just because a hurricane bolter is effectively 3 tl bolters doesn't make it auto included under "bolters". I think it just means it effects "bolters" correct me if I'm wrong. It reminds me of the FAQ for IG clarifying that hotshot lasguns are different than lasguns for certain orders. 

Also Belial is much better with the sword this edition for reasons stated previously. If you're worried About double tough throw him in with knights, or accept the challenges with the knight master or deathwing champion depending on how you field him.


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Ravner298 said:


> The description for the banner clearly says bolters, not heavy bolters, or hurricane bolters. Just because a hurricane bolter is effectively 3 tl bolters doesn't make it auto included under "bolters". I think it just means it effects "bolters" correct me if I'm wrong.


Problem with that logic is that if I look at the back a Heavy Bolter is a weapon. It has a profile. While Hurricane Bolters still do not. The description doesn't suggest they are _effectively _3 Twin Linked Boltguns, because it says they literally are 3 Twin Linked Boltguns fired together. 

If the Hurricane Bolter was a separate weapon entirely it should have an entry in the back with a salvo 3/6. Though you might be right in that they didn't intend it to include them but by the wording as it is they're currently just 3 Boltguns taped together right now which is otherwise pointless.


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Well, keeping true to my original point, a twin linked boltgun isn't a "bolter"  I feel like It would of been included In the description if it was allowed.

I may be off my rocker with this logic, however.


----------



## seermaster (Feb 22, 2012)

If a twinlinked boltugun isn't a boltgun does that mean if I preciense them there not boltguns anymore. 
Also the guard lasgunhot shot faq thing doesn't work because it specificaly mentions that there boltguns in all regards in the faq. 
Looking forward to bolter death wall I'll be playing for awhile.


----------



## thefallen (Sep 21, 2011)

What is sooo hard to understand? The banner of destruction makes boltguns with in 6” salvo 2/4. This means boltguns, combi-guns, twin-linked boltguns ,and even hurricane bolters. No stormbolters, no boltpistols, no heavybolters, and no mega bolters. It is really that simple.


----------



## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Ravner298 said:


> The description for _the banner clearly says bolters_, not heavy bolters, or hurricane bolters.


But that's the thing - it's clear as mud. Thank you GWS once more for your oh-so-clear rule making...


----------



## thefallen (Sep 21, 2011)

Im really liking the tech priest with powerfield generator. Put him in the backfield with your predators and you have one tough fire support base. AV13 with a 4++ and you can repair the damage that gets through. Ive only tried this once so far and everything was still on the table at the end of the game.


----------



## Routine (Sep 25, 2011)

thefallen said:


> Im really liking the tech priest with powerfield generator. Put him in the backfield with your predators and you have one tough fire support base. AV13 with a 4++ and you can repair the damage that gets through. Ive only tried this once so far and everything was still on the table at the end of the game.


Fun part is, the Powerfield also affects your Allies, even if they are allies of Convenience..

Also, has anyone tried this with a Landraider? Expensive as heck, but a Landraider with the Deathwing Vehicle upgrade, a Techmarine inside, and a 4+ Invulnerable save could be fun. Expensive, but fun


----------



## dander (Jan 13, 2008)

I haven't tried this yet but I'm thinking of using Sammael with some black knights and a couple ravenwing squads as troops with a darkshroud. Turn1 just positioning for a deathwing assault with some deathwing knights on turn two. After they deep strike to one of the teleport Homers I'll have spread out Sammael will turbo-boost into the terminator squad. He's got inner-circle so now he's toughness 6 for as long as they are all touching, in front with his good cover save. Even better if the Dark shroud is still running.


----------

