# Sympathy for the Devil?



## Lubacca (Sep 4, 2011)

I've been reading the Horus Heresy and I was wondering, is anyone filled with saddness for Gavriel Loken? The man tries to hard to understand something and has good instincts but he's constantly told he's being stupid or silly. Does anyone else feel that if Loken had been listened to before the fall happened then perhaps the history would be a bit differet?


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

You're probably right, but if that were the case, we wouldn't have the 40k universe as it is and the Heresy wouldn't be full of tragic events to make us care about the plot and characters


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

How is that sympathy for the devil? It's sympathy for the doomed hero fighting the devil, sure...

Yes. I feel sad and sorry for Loken, as do most people, which is good because that's what the HH authors intended.


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

Posted this previoulsy about Loken

Sejanus was killed and his replacement Loken was too weak and it all went wrong from there.

Hastur was Horus's favourite and Horus probably listened to him. Loken knew that Erebus was lying about the anathame but procrastinated because he didn't want to get egg on his face and did nothing but 'moan'. Had Hastur been in the same situation he would have been straight up to Horus telling him he was been played for a fool. Horus would have gone ballistic on Erebus and ultimately Lorgar and the heresy would never have happened. !!!!

PS loved the short story Death of a Silversmith with Hastur.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

mal310 said:


> Posted this previoulsy about Loken
> 
> Sejanus was killed and his replacement Loken was too weak and it all went wrong from there.
> 
> ...


easy to say with the benefit of hindlegs (spider dijon)

What i think your forgetting is the timing, the thought of astartes going against other astartes was laughable, a joke, incomprehensible. The passage forward was clear under the emperors rule, the astartes would retake the stars and man would rule the world.

Especially with erebus founding the lodges as well, almost everyone involved would have trusted erebus innately due to his part in that.

I think it would have been very difficult for anyone to comprehend that Erebus was plotting to turn horus against the emperor.


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

deathbringer said:


> easy to say with the benefit of hindlegs (spider dijon)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did Loken trust him? did he hell because he KNEW the bastard had stolen the anthamne. And who's attention did he bring it to, no one, he dithered. He should have manned up and sorted it out!! Loken was a member of the Mournival, Horus would have and should have listened to his concerns at that stage. (Its all fiction I know but its good fun to speculate, personally I think the turning point on the whole thing was Hastur's death. If it had been Abbadon or easily manipulated Little Horus then it all would have been different.) :so_happy:


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Garviel's tale was a classic tragedy.

His resurrection complies with the Shakespearean theme of _Revenge Tragedy_, with Garviel's madness being applicable to Hamlet's for example, or that of the Ghost.

I'm currently unsure whether James Swallow is capable of doing this retconning justice without it boiling down into unnecessary filler-cum-audio canon.


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