# transport upgrades



## Crude (Mar 15, 2009)

simple, is it worth putting upgrades like extra armour on your transports. at first i thought it was obvious, a transport should keep moving all the time to get your guys across the board - extra armour increases your chances. But now that transports are so cheap, the upgrades suddenly don't seem such good value.

discuss..


----------



## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm guessing you mean the cheap rhinos of the SMs and the cheaper IG chimeras.
Indeed, the relative point cost for adding the upgrades is a lot heavier now, and while I have yet to encounter this dilemma on my army ( WH still have the expensive ones with cheaper upgrades ), the use of things like extra armour seems a bit overexpenive now.
Instead, I would opt for cheaper ways to get them across, like more of them, and smoke launcher, as well as good use of terrain to hide behind before making the final push.


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I rarely buy upgrades for any vehicles.

In the case of rhinos and razors, it just seems too expensive to add half-again the cost of the transport for extra armor. Back when EA was cheaper and transports cost more I always figured it was a no-brainer "EA, Smoke" was like a single 8-point automatic upgrade back in the day. Now smoke is free and EA costs triple what it did, so fuck it.

And on the big stuff like land raiders...meh, I can't afford to dump a bunch of points on (maybe a multimelta, especially on a crusader) but anything else seems pointless.


----------



## b.anthracis (Nov 18, 2008)

But on the other hand, you are not protecting the transport by giving it extra armor. Your increasing your chances, that the content of the transport reaches its goal. So you have to compare the value of the passangers and their tactical purpose with the points cost of the upgrade. And having a unit of eg. Khorne Beserker just sitting in their rhino and doing nothing is a great waste of points. But if you give a unit of Plague Marines a Rhino just to protect them from heavy weapons while they sit on their home objective, than the upgrade is overpriced.


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

True, but there's also the cost compared to how often it'll be of use. EA helps 1/6th of the time that something manages to damage your transport, and is usually only vital in the first couple turns of the game. Meanwhile the 10th man you could have bought for the same points is useful for the whole rest of the game every time you shoot or assault. Is it worth being one Grey Hunter short, or missing out on a power weapon to give your disposable transport an extra 1/6th of a chance of being useful for the first turn or two? Depends on how vital that unit is and how tight you are for points, I suppose.

I'd stick it on a relaly important transport, but if I've got five or six squads of grey hunters or 'zerks that all need rolling coffins, I'm not wasting the 75-90 points it would take to armor their transports. I might spend 15 to make sure the chaplain's special asskicker squad transport makes it on time, but everyone else can make do without. If one squad falls behind for a turn all is not lost.


----------



## Crude (Mar 15, 2009)

this thread was actually inspired from the ork trukk options.

lets assume that we wont be putting the 'ard case on, cos then it wouldnt be opened topped. unfortunatly this leaves it frighteningly vulnerable to just about everything. i was thinking that extra armour would keep it a bit safer from regular troopers - even though a rogue missile or two will have it on a fast path to destruction.

whatever, im thinking that a better option is to have a big beefy target in a land raider or battle wagon so the transport doesnt get much attention at all.


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I like my trukks cheap as dirt. Red paint and that's it. 

Chances are any hit on a flimsy little trukk is going to send it careering into oblivion, so banking on armor plates being any use seems like a waste. Best to get the most out of what few turns of movement the thing'll be able to produce and call it good.

And again, is it worth the cost? In this case you could buy almost two boyz for the cost of that plate that (chances are) you won't be lucky enough to actually use.


----------



## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

Galahad has covered it pretty well, in that the chances of it being useful are quite low. The only transports I'd even consider putting EA on are those containing your hammer units; that is, your big fat land raider with Assault terminators and Cassius and Vulkan or whatever. That unit NEEDS to be mobile. A tactical squad that can disembark and shoot from where they're stunned doesn't need EA nearly as much.


----------



## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Galahad said:


> And again, is it worth the cost? In this case you could buy almost two boyz for the cost of that plate that (chances are) you won't be lucky enough to actually use.


WHich is precisely the reason I don't use rhinos at all. 
1 rhino with EA and smoke = 58 points for me, I can get 5 battlesisters for that. What I lose in mobility, I make up in larger numbers


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> What I lose in mobility, I make up in larger *breasts*


...
*cough*

>_>


Oh come on, it was begging to be said!


Anyway, EA on the important transports only, really, it's all been said.
I'd put it on the Rhino of like, Sternguard, or a Command squad, or something, but that's it.

Oh, and you can't take 'Ard case on a Trukk, it's not one of their options :\
Shame, it'd make for some really cool builds.


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Even on battlewagons I usually go light on upgrades.

'ard case never. I need the open top for shooting and assaults.

Red paint always

Riggers...maybe, but probably not.

Weapons? Single Kannon. I use my wagons for transport so any additional guns would be utterly wasted (thanks to us getting fucked over when they lowered the defensive weapon threshold). I like the Kannon because on frag it;s one of the most accurate weapons we have, and firing Kraks it fits in well with the fifteen Tankbustas I like to keep inside.

If it's a transpprt carrying an assaulty mob then I'll probably throw on a deffrolla if I have the points.


----------



## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> WHich is precisely the reason I don't use rhinos at all.
> 1 rhino with EA and smoke = 58 points for me, I can get 5 battlesisters for that. What I lose in mobility, I make up in larger numbers


Sisters without rhinos/immos? Fail IMO. T3 Sisters in the open get torrented by bolters. Not good.


----------



## GutCheck (Apr 28, 2009)

For my Chaos, I agree. I like my transports as cheap as possible.
IMHO if I get a single round of fast movement out of my transport, I'm happy. Its done it's job. On round 2 I have either a pile of difficult terrain (great) or a mobile bunker (also great).

For Orks, I go back and forth about putting anything on my trukks. Maybe Red Paint. Maybe. But, I expect them to get blown up.. hope for it really. Slap 3 or 4 trukks down and scream towards the enemy; chances are someone is going to get blown in the direction I want to go. 

Upgrades on bigger stuff like Battle Wagons and Land Raiders I'm all for. 
I'll routinely put Daemonic Possession on my Land Raider. . . it's almost impossible to stop. For the Battlewagon I'd consider the armor plates, a grot rigga', and re-inforced ram or a deff rolla'; I've also looked at putting 4 bolt on big shootas for ablative wound reasons solely. Add in a Big Mek with a custom force field and weeeee!


----------



## Siphon (Jan 17, 2009)

For what it's worth, I always put spirit stones on my Wave Serpents and Falcons. The price bump is pretty small compared to the overall price and having one of my expensive transports (can we say battle tank expensive) just sitting around instead of moving is never a good idea.

For Fire prisms, I often go all naked. Just hide them in the back and blast away.


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

and there are some options you just have to include, like Disruption Fields on *any* Tau vehicle, Multitracker (and probably targeting array) on any tau vehicle with guns


----------



## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Galahad said:


> and there are some options you just have to include, like Disruption Fields on *any* Tau vehicle, Multitracker (and probably targeting array) on any tau vehicle with guns


Yup tau are really exempt from this discussion
Its a no brainer on the disruption pods and multitracker and target lock. Just have to take themon everything except piranhas

As for orks they arent really worth it. The chances are my guns are going to kill you anyway and im much more scared of an ork boy then a ard case that chances are ill nail through anyway.


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

deathbringer said:


> Yup tau are really exempt from this discussion
> Its a no brainer on the disruption pods and multitracker and target lock. Just have to take themon everything except piranhas


Wait, really?
A Multi-Tracker on a Devilfish?
Isn't that completely pointless..?

I mean, 1 Burst cannon isn't much of a gun.


----------



## Crude (Mar 15, 2009)

no doubt that a trukk or rhino are easy picking for ap weapons, but these will tend to be directed at more critical threats - like that 600 pt landraider full of terminators or battlewagon packed with nobz. 

basically, what difference would ea make to small arms fire?

id love to do the maths but im lazy...


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Winterous said:


> Wait, really?
> A Multi-Tracker on a Devilfish?
> Isn't that completely pointless..?
> 
> I mean, 1 Burst cannon isn't much of a gun.


Multi-tracker on vehicles lets you fire as if you were Fast.

The only reason not to take a multi-tracker and targeting array on a devilfish is if you're trying to go cheap and not giving it extra weapons. Otherwise 'Warfish' (SMS, multitracker and TA) is standard.

And yeah, no reason to ever not take a disruption field.

Piranhas are the exception, you don't want to waste points on them. Meltagun on at least one and call it good. They're flimsy enough to not be worthy of serious investment of points.

Most ork vehicles fall under the piranha definition of 'too flimsy to bother' I put red paint on just because that extra inch can make all the difference if you only get a round or two in before it gets shot up.


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Galahad said:


> Multi-tracker on vehicles lets you fire as if you were Fast.
> 
> The only reason not to take a multi-tracker and targeting array on a devilfish is if you're trying to go cheap and not giving it extra weapons. Otherwise 'Warfish' (SMS, multitracker and TA) is standard.


Ooooh yeah, I forgot you could give them SMS, that justifies the 15 points then.


----------



## iron panda (Jan 7, 2009)

We tend to use a lot of terrain on our games and as a force of habit (even when playing outside my group) I've always included dozer blades on my Rhinos. That's it. As for my orks, I tend to spend points on red paint job and again, the reinforced ram option. Any options that get me closer to objectives (and preventing that dreaded difficult terrain roll) is a point well spent.


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

iron panda said:


> We tend to use a lot of terrain on our games and as a force of habit (even when playing outside my group) I've always included dozer blades on my Rhinos. That's it. As for my orks, I tend to spend points on red paint job and again, the reinforced ram option. Any options that get me closer to objectives (and preventing that dreaded difficult terrain roll) is a point well spent.


The Dozer Blade is good, especially for how cheap it is.
But I'm not really sure it's worth taking on every transport.

A few of them yes, and definitely on the ones with melee units inside or units that want to get close, but some just plain don't need it.
It's uncommon enough to move a transport into DT that the points aren't always worth spending.


----------



## Praxiss (Aug 13, 2009)

tbh i tend to give most of my transports Daemonic POssession. I thought that was always best as it means they can keep moving. I always put a token weapon on them so a weapon destroyed result wont immobilise it. That way if the opponent get a Pen. Hit on the rhino, only a 4+ will have any effect on it.


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

that makes for some seriously expensive transports, mate


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Praxiss said:


> tbh i tend to give most of my transports Daemonic POssession. I thought that was always best as it means they can keep moving. I always put a token weapon on them so a weapon destroyed result wont immobilise it. That way if the opponent get a Pen. Hit on the rhino, only a 4+ will have any effect on it.


They already HAVE a weapon, a TL Bolter.
You can give them another one for 5 points, but frankly if you get more than 1 Weapon Destroyed result, it probably should have died anyway.


----------

