# Effective CSM Units



## Frogthor (Mar 13, 2010)

What CSM units would be effective against SM and Eldar? I would really like to know, because I just cant seem to win!!!


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## SweetnLow (Mar 22, 2010)

I'm thinking Oblits and Termicide Terminators. Maybe Lightning Claw Terminators in a Land Raider.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Berzerkers with PF, obliterates, havocs with missle/auto cannon, Rhino's, vindicators (To a lesser extent), Regular CSM with melta guns and icon of undivided in rhino, Oh and can' forget the all to necessary DP's


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## Partof1 (Mar 2, 2010)

Power Weapons are good, be they fists, lightning claws, or even Force Weapons. I've had luck with my Chaos Sorcerer, and he could do well against Eldar and SM HQ's.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Take a chance, use possessed. If you`re already having trouble, you might as well go out on a limb.

I use ten, and whether I get a good power or not, they are usually the killing blow for my army.

People underestimate them, but they`re not hard to use. Just charge and watch the enemy cower and get torn apart. If you get rending, PW or FC you have it in the bag! 

Works for me two thirds of the time, even with a dud power.


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## Heretiker (Mar 10, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> Take a chance, use possessed. If you`re already having trouble, you might as well go out on a limb.
> 
> I use ten, and whether I get a good power or not, they are usually the killing blow for my army.
> 
> ...


Sorry to bud in but i like the possessed in terms of fluff (original EC-texts), what mark do you use? 

(I would like to put slaanesh on them of course but feel that Khorne or Nurgle probably is the most useful for my purposes (countercharge unit)).


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

I find that vs SM's & eldar noise marines can be quite effective. They're also effective against horde armies too.

Since everything in the game is going to end up with a 4+ coversave 90% of the time anyways the best way to kill things is through weight of fire. The shear volume of shots that a noise marine squad can put out is impressive even at 24". Upgrade one blastmaster (expensive I know...) and you're hitting with a S8 AP3 template that causes pinning. Yikes!

I run an emperor's children warband with (2) squads loaded with sonic weapons - (6 man squads with 5 sonic blasters & 1 blastmaster) to keep units under weight of fire and then have a single assaulting squad consisting of naked noise marines & a champion with a doom siren. Nobody except TEQ's likes the doom siren... S5 AP3! ouch.


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## OpTi (Aug 29, 2009)

Simply having effective units is not enough.

Maybe post a sample list that you play and your opponents list and your's and your opponents tactics. I think then people would have a better grasp of what would be effective in certain situations.


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## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

Consider taking Berserkers in a rhino, and teaming them up with another unit or two such as chosen with meltas or plasma or a DP. Then, use the rhino as either a means to keep up with winged princes or other mech units (or to rush the squad to deal with security issues for your obliterators and havocs), or as a shield to stop templates taking a huge toll on your numbers before you can close. 

In line with that, only disembark from a rhino at the begining of a turn, unless you desparately have to take or contest an objective. Don't use a single rhino'd squad to rush the enemy, because it will either take too much fire and get fragged early on or else it will end up alone without support and won't last long beyond whoever it can mix it up with. DP with wings is good for supporting a rush, in a pinch.


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## GutCheck (Apr 28, 2009)

*Tips*

I agree with OpTi, some idea of what you have been taking and your play style would be helpful. 

I started playing CSM in 4th edition when cult units were elites unless you had a dedicated lord. My daemon prince also had "Daemonic Speed".. ahh, those were the days. I've been playing a strict Deathguard list for about 5 years. Straight up Deathguard can be effective but they generally need help. 
So, I can give you my musing on "effective units" in my fairly limited expertise.

I'll break it down by job instead of by force org selection. 

*Objective Holding*
Plague Marines: Between the Armor Save, the Cover Save (usually objectives are buildings or regions of a board), Feel No Pain, their increased toughness and the incredible amount of war gear they possess, Plague Marines are your go to unit. I'd suggest giving them 2 plasma rifles (again, armor save and Feel No Pain) and sitting them on an objective. A champion isn't really necessary, as they aren't really designed for close combat. A rhino would be nice, if for no other reason than to block incoming fire from one direction. 
_Suggested Squad:_
7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasma Rifles, Rhino = 226 Points

*Assault / Retinues*
Terminators: Pretty cheap points cost for what you get. My only problem with terminators is the limited number of them you can fit into a Land Raider. To quote Warlord Krushskull Da Murderator "Every'fing counts in large amounts!" 5 Termis just aren't beefy enough (IMO) as an assault unit. However, they can take a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.. which is nice. 

Chosen: Their ability to take 5 special weapons makes them a good assault choice, combined with an icon (say Tzeentch) they can be a fairly reliable H2H unit. I'd sacrifice their scout rule and slap them in a land raider with a lord or sorcerer. 

Possessed: I've only recently started considering possessed. But at Str5 with a 5+ Inv save stock before any random powers, their not a bad choice. You could even get fancy and give them the Icon of Tzeentch - a 4+ Inv. Save is incredibly annoying to an opponent. 

Ok. That's all I have for right now.
:victory:


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## Mud213 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't mean to sound picky, but I have to disagree with a lot of what you said Gutcheck. I think your experience with limited units have have effected your outlook on the army as a whole. I don't mean this as some sort of personal assault, I just want to clear up a few points you may have overlooked.



GutCheck said:


> I agree with OpTi, some idea of what you have been taking and your play style would be helpful.
> 
> I started playing CSM in 4th edition when cult units were elites unless you had a dedicated lord. My daemon prince also had "Daemonic Speed".. ahh, those were the days. I've been playing a strict Deathguard list for about 5 years. Straight up Deathguard can be effective but they generally need help.
> So, I can give you my musing on "effective units" in my fairly limited expertise.
> ...


No hard feelings Gutcheck.

Now it really depends on what your Eldar and SM opponents' lists are like. It's hard to make overall claims about how to beat something if we don't know what it is. There are a variety of lists for both armies so you sort of need to explain what you're up against. A list to beat a Wraithguard army plays very different than a Mech list or (obscure) Harlequin list.

Also the point ranges involved in important. Are you playing small 500 point lists, 1000, 1500, 2500, 4000!?! Different units and different tactics work at various levels of points. We need more details.


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## Frogthor (Mar 13, 2010)

I actually forgot about this thread. Ya....anyway, I read it over, and I my eldar opponent uses a farseer council and a wraithlord, as well as banshees and swooping hawks. The SM player has a highly armourized force including dreadnoughts. Oh, ya, I play a lash army. It consists of the battleforce, a DP and a pred.

Oh ya, +rep to mud213


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## Mud213 (Nov 20, 2008)

Frogthor said:


> I actually forgot about this thread. Ya....anyway, I read it over, and I my eldar opponent uses a farseer council and a wraithlord, as well as banshees and swooping hawks. The SM player has a highly armourized force including dreadnoughts. Oh, ya, I play a lash army. It consists of the battleforce, a DP and a pred.
> 
> Oh ya, +rep to mud213


I'll start with the SM first since I have more experience with them. Personally, I rush forward all in Rhinos. Meltaguns out of Rhinos are your friend. That is how I typically deal with a drop-pod dread. For a lash army to work, you really need Obliterators and/or Defilers and/or Vindicators. This way when you group them together, you have something to smash. You should have multiple Oblits in a squad since one by himself with die very quickly. If you have Defilers you need at least two since one will just die before it gets to do anything. Vindicators with rhinos blocking the sides is very effective as well.

SM tend to not be all that difficult to deal with since almost every unit in the book is "designed" to counter SM. You really should get more than just the battleforce since Possessed are one of the most costly (while not being effective) units in the book. Pick up a box of any of the cult troops will be more useful than them and count as a troop choice. Getting SM in close combat is usually the best answer (unless it's TH/SS Termi's you are fighting).

Unfortunately, your Eldar friend has a bunch of units that you don't really want to be cc with since warlocks, howling banshees and wraithlords are at their element there. CSM usually do their best in cc, but you'll probably want to avoid it in this case. Stopping the Wave Serpents/Falcons before they can get in close is really important.

I think the best solution to both armies would be to get several Obliterators and some Plaque Marines with a couple of meltaguns and maybe a rhino for it. For the Eldar guy, it's important to use the Berzerkers as a countercharge or involved in a multicharge in order to deal with the cc prowess of the Eldar.

In order to optimize the Lashing, you could get another DP or make a Lashing Sorcerer. If you really want to go this route, just the one Lashing source is not enough to really cluster and smash like you should be doing.

Oh and thanks for the rep.


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