# 5 Assult terminators+vulkan, how can i stop them?



## aberson126 (Sep 12, 2009)

so i have been playing a freind of mine who has been trying out space marines armies (we allow proxying cause we play in a freinds basement). He is trying to make his army but he is guranteed he is gonna run this squad, sorry dont know the points. i play CSM btw

5 assault terminators w/thunder hammers and storm shields
and vulkan in a land raider.

In the last two battles against him i have killed this squad both times but here is the catch, the first time i lost a 10 man squad of khorne beserkers who got the charge in, a DP, a defiler and a dreadnaught. the end result was dp and dread dieing and vulkan chewing up the KB leaving 4 alive. second time i spent a lord of khorne and lightning claws, a dp, a full 10 man squad of MoN raptors, and a full squad of berserkers to bring them down and none but a few berserkers survived. so how should i deal with them? i keep having to throw 1/2 my army at them and losing that half. as for the overall battle the first one was KP and he had a few more then me. secound though was objectives and i won 2-1.

but i worry about the amount it takes to kill them is there a better way?


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## snakezenn (Apr 14, 2009)

It would probably help if we knew a little more of what you had or used.


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## Valanehtar (Sep 10, 2009)

Well the first thing you gotta do is blow up the LR, I were playing CSM I'd probably use Oblits for that job. Plus the Oblits could come in handy once they are out of the LR. Then you get to shoot them as they footslog to you. Other than that I would just take Berserkers (9 man squad) with a champion (give him a PW and plasma pistol, and maybe give 2 others plamsa pistols) and attach a kitted out lord to them and stick um all in a rhino. And just be sure you get to assualt him. Remember that all the TH attacks will be at int 1; and also that 5 Terms, Vulkan, and a LR is a big chunk of points, thought I have no idea how many you are playing.


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

If you have any way to torrent wounds on them, it's a great start. AP2 weaponry doesn't matter as much when they have that 3+ invul, so just start throwing cheap, easy wounds at them, preferably from range, because they will fuck up whatever they get to assault.


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## HighHubris (Mar 16, 2009)

20 khorne berserkers charging would do the trick i imagine, since they all swing first.
you'd kill about 3, and lose about 5 berserkers, lets say you'd lose another from fearless. so ur at 14 and he's at 2 + vulkan. 

think the math's right, i'm a bit tired


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

How about a sorcerer or Dp that turns Vulkan into a spawn for kicks?


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## matty570 (Jun 14, 2007)

Sqwerlpunk said:


> If you have any way to torrent wounds on them, it's a great start. AP2 weaponry doesn't matter as much when they have that* 3+ invul*, so just start throwing cheap, easy wounds at them, preferably from range, because they will fuck up whatever they get to assault.


How do they have a 3+ invulnerable save? Am I missing something? I thought it was just vulkan who had that save.


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## matty570 (Jun 14, 2007)

In answering the original post, take out the land raider or sacrifice something to draw them away from doing more damage.

Although massed fire will work on them, chances are as chaos you wont really have massed fire plus that fire is probably better on his other units.

Ultimately, I think the key is playing to the missions objectives, if its kill points keep this unit away from you for as long as you can. If its objectives based concentrate on killing his troop units whilst trying to keep yours alive.


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## godzy (Jun 5, 2008)

I have one of those! and they get the bills payed  as they cost me 390~, and the ride another ~265, that over one third of my points. immobilizing the raiders is a bitch to my game, and happens all too often. other than that, play for objectives if possible. bolters-bolters-bolters, and then some more, to get that 1 in 6 fail to show up. dakka costs less then special guns, and you already have a lot of that lying around in any army.
edit:
AP 1 or 2 have a 1/3 chance of going over the save. higher AP has 1/6. the AP 1~2 cost way more then twice the cost of higher AP guns. it comes down to math again.


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## b.anthracis (Nov 18, 2008)

Take 2 Lash Dp with wings and Oblits. Destroy the LR and Lash this nasty unit just around so that they can do no harm. This is a very frustrating experience for your friend, so be prepared to have enough beer at hand to calm him down!

After bunching them up with the Lash you can use the oblits plasmacannons to drop small plates on them, this will cause enough wounds so that they fail their saves.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Dual Lightning claw terminators right in his face. You attack first with more. Go for it!


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

TBH If you have a lash anywhere in your army you dont really need to fear them at all once they come out of the LR- DS oblits by it and either multimelta or TL-meltagun it then just lash the nasty squad away from you each turn.

AP2 weaponry doesnt treally work against TH/SS but massed amounts of normal fire will- unfortunately chaos are a bit light on that- heavy bolters and bolters will do you well enough (but arent a scratch on devourers and fleshborers for sheer volume of wounds).
I would suggest you try to kill/immoblaise the LR early (vindicators do well vs LRs- 5+ on 2 dice to pen then anything 4+ on pen table~ 31% chance to immobalise/kill if you hit) then concentrate on klilling everything BUT the TH/SS- if you space out your army they can only kill 1 unit a turn... and if you have 5 units surrounding them they'll be toast (and at 625pts for the unit and raider you should have a lot more units then the marines).


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## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

Honestly, you are just having bad luck. I usually don't run He'Stan in the same squad, instead I just take 8 of these guys in a crusader. I would be worried about being hit with the kind of shit you hit him with. Shoot them, with bolters and blast weapons, if you can get them.


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## moshpiler (Apr 16, 2009)

storm shields give termies a 3+ invuln save even when not in combat


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

So? Bolters still allow the 2+ save so its a moot point. The best way to deal with TH/SS termies is to lay the wounds on them so they fail some saves. High AP weapons are almost just as effective as low AP ones, but come with a far worse rate of fire, expecially considering their cost.


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## Praxiss (Aug 13, 2009)

ANY unit will entually fall to massed fire. if you have a squad of marines close by, start firing then shoot and charge with the 'zerkers. Assumgin it is 2 10 man squads you coudl have up top 30 bolter shots (with a couple of plasmas mixed in). I woudl think at least a couple of 1's woudl be rolled. Then the 'zerkers woudl hit with, what, 40 attacks? And they would hit first, with S5, that should take the unit down a peg or 2.

if i am correct the only ranged weapon in the termie squad is He'Stans h.flamer? I woudl possibly assign a single squad equipped with assault weapons and pistols to bait/follwo them around, blastign as much dakka as possible each turn while avoiding cc. A bike squad could work well for that.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Keep in mind guys, Aberson (the OP) never SAID that there's a Land Raider.
He merely said there's Terminators, you all assumed there's a Land Raider.


Aberson.

If there IS a Land Raider, then your best bet is to kill it as soon as possible.
The further he has to walk, the longer he takes to reach you, the more shots they're being hit with.

If he's Deep Striking them (can't if Vulkan is in the squad), then as soon as he comes down he's going to scatter so blasts don't hurt him much.
If that's the case, stand out of his 12" charge range, and shoot.


In either case, Lash is a GREAT option, moving him 2"-12" away from you will make his job hell, and I'm sure he'll be unhappy with you 

As people have said, lay the wounds on him.
The more saves he takes, the more he's going to fail.

Don't be afraid to charge him with a cheap/crippled unit.
That unit only has about 14 attacks, he'll usually kill 10 models MAX, and that's if they don't have an invulnerable save.

But most of all, avoid combat if possible.
Get your Berzerkers to bait him, run them away and hope he follows you, which could very well get you another round or two of shooting before they move in for the kill.


But one thing you really have to remember.
Vulkan makes Thunder Hammers in your army Master Crafted, meaning each model gets to re-roll ONE failed roll to hit.
Make sure every Terminator has separately coloured attack dice, if he's not doing that then he has an unfair advantage against you, which happens to be against the rules.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Winterous said:


> Keep in mind guys, Aberson (the OP) never SAID that there's a Land Raider.
> He merely said there's Terminators, you all assumed there's a Land Raider...





aberson126 said:


> 5 assault terminators w/thunder hammers and storm shields
> and vulkan in a land raider...


It really helps to read the whole post:wink:


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

MaidenManiac said:


> It really helps to read the whole post:wink:


>_>
<_<

*bolts*


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## stealthrat1 (Jul 28, 2009)

*Its not easy...*

you can always drop 3 vindicators into them. Honestly, assault terms and vulkan in a raider is a hard ass unit to take care of. They will almost always beat you in combat and can obviously take the hits from shooting. Enough plasma will kill them, but you have to remember that vulkan can be allocated wounds from the squad. You are really trying to deal with 8 terms for shooting because of vulkans extra 2 wounds. I would suggest killing the land raider first at all costs. Keep him far away by doing that, then shoot him for 3 turns. If you cant kill them all then you need new dice. 3 vindicators is the way to go since chaos has shitty heavy support choices. 10 Berserkers charging should do damage. 40 attacks, about 13 should miss, and about 18 should wound. Statistically you should case 3 wounds. and one might be on vulkan saving a terminator. They will swing back hitting say with 5 (master crafted) however probably one will fail to wound. vulkan should hit and wound with all. Thats 7 wounds plus 3 saves because you lost by 3. So about 8 should die. dont charge them. Just shoot them.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

You have berzerkers. I don't see the problem. Even in your first example, you barely lost more than the marine guy did anyway. He sent about 650 points at you there.

Stop sending expensive stuff with power weapons at guys with thunder hammers and shorm shields. Use bolters and chain axes instead. You may want to send a DP to charge Vulcan if you can manage it, so he doesn't kill too many zerkers before they strike (though they will be simultaneous with him on the charge so it's no biggie. More skulls for the throne).

You may need to put something in the way to take the charge from these guys, as you obviously don't want that to be the zerkers. I'd use plague marines for this job, armed with a couple of melta guns to see to the land raider. Your blight grenades will slightly mess up the incoming attacks from the termies so one or two of them might live. Alternatively you could just use gump chaos marines or something cheap like a dread. Obliterators would be a fun option too.

Of course, you can always melt the land raider and lash the termies back to kansas, or wherever.


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## red baron (Jun 13, 2009)

plague marines don't have an invulnerable save blight grenades will negate the assult but they'll still get wiped out give the champ a pesronal icon and put a lesser daemon speed bump in the way so they charge when they come in then the berzerkers follow up with a furious charge.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

red baron said:


> plague marines don't have an invulnerable save blight grenades will negate the assult but they'll still get wiped out give the champ a pesronal icon and put a lesser daemon speed bump in the way so they charge when they come in then the berzerkers follow up with a furious charge.


I second this, good show.
A bunch of cheap 5+ invulnerable saves, that'll tie them up nicely.
The squad of 5 Hammers get 15 attacks on the charge.
On average, each will hit with 1 1/2, and with their MC re-roll, they'll average about 2 hits each.
So basically, at very least 5 or so will die.
Then there's Vulkan as well, he'll kill a few by himself.
Then you take the additional saves for losing horribly, if you're lucky you'll kill 1 guy, you'll probably end up completely dead, which is what you want.

So a unit of 10 Daemons should tie them up pretty reliably, but you want them to die so you can shoot the Terminators first, so maybe a squad of 6-8.
Then the Berzerkers can come in!


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## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

To be honest, Chaos have a hard time doing reliably well against mech'd up armies due to lack of multimeltas on troops and a lack of Fast multimeltas on bikes or speeders. Your best bet might be to mech up and not get out unless you get shot out, play avoidance and drop some suicide terminators with combi-meltas on his land raider to deny the termies their ride. If you don't get the LR dead, those termies are basically going to charge you on their terms and that's not what you want. What ever you do, make sure you don't focus all your non-melta firepower into the raider. Lascannons will not reliably kill raiders, and not in the numbers that chaos are able to bring to the table. Lascannons need to go at Rhinos and Speeders. Meltas go at the raider.

After you get the termies out of their ride, you just do what everyone else said and basically torrent them (but not at the cost of ignoring everything else in their army, because if they no longer have a raider they are much less of a threat).


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