# Pink Horrors



## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Hey,

Just wondering how Daemon players are finding these as troops choices?

As a dedicated mono-God Tzeentch player I have to take these if I want to stick to the fluff of my army, so I am stuck with them as troop choices so need to make the most of them.

So far I have only used them with the obvious go-to choice Flickering Fire in squads of about 15 as allies to my CSMs. 
The 3d6 shots is of course horribly inconsistent (but then that is the character of pretty much the whole new Daemons codex) and to make matters worse against MEQ it only ever seems to kill a couple of marines and will usually give them FNP. It's better against things like Guard and Eldar but as about 50% of my meta is MEQ this doesn't really make up for it's AP4 and warpfire rule very often. 
However, Pink Horrors do seem to be quite good at tarpitting small specialised squads such as MEQ command squads and Terminator Squads as long as they charge first to deny them +1A charge bonuses. Also, the lack of Pink Horror overwatch makes it pointless to wait around to get charged: May as well shoot then charge and deny the enemy the bonuses. 

The thing is, against Termies the Termies are only getting 10 attacks per turn if you deny them the +1A charge bonus and charge first as opposed to 15. Then only 2/3's will actually hit, and not all will wound. And it's then that the 5++ becomes useful. So slightly more than 1/3 Horrors wounded will survive. So you are looking at probably about 3 or 4 dead Horrors, which then inflict a str 2 hit the next turn, which won't do anything unless you luck out (since against T4 they need 6's to wound, and even then they get the 2+ save so it's pretty laughable). 
Okay admittedly this is all variable depending on terminator load outs (more attacks and various degrees of overwatch for varying builds), but the above figures are certainly true for the common vanilla codex TH/SS builds. And then we should probably add another Horror casualty per turn to a potential failed leadership test. 
But the point is 3 or 4 casualties in a 15-20 unit of Horrors in the first turn of CC against TH/SS termies means you have a good chance of locking the unit out of the game for 3 or 4 turns or until you wish to send help. 
Also, a unit of 15-20 striking first will generate 30-40 attacks on the charge, hitting on 4's, half will hit and 1/3 will wound on T4. So you are looking at around 6 or 7 wounds. The law of averages say you are going to kill a Terminator before it has a chance to strike (being I1).

So, in this very admittedly situtional case, you are paying between 135pts and 180pts for a unit that can lock out a TH/SS terminator squad for most the game and probably whittle it down significantly before dying. 

Of course, it's going to perform worse on Termies with different builds, but the point was to display how actually Horrors can tarpit certain units. 

This brings me to the next point: If you are going to use them like this, then wouldn't it be more useful for them to try and take the Infernal Gate power? 
Infernal Gate is Ap1 small blast so if you came across small assaulty squads with MEQ or TEQ armour values then a hit with this weapon has a good chance on inflicting casualties if it lands on the mark due to it's higher strength and Ap1. Hell, if you luck out and roll a 4, 5 or 6 you have a str 8-10 Ap1 small blast that could also be useful against vehicles too. 

Of course, the flipside is that it's 2 warpcharge points per turn and it's still warpflame, so if you are down to 10 Horrors you have to wait a turn before you can charge the warp points to use it. 

I think i'd probably try rolling for it if I knew I was coming up against Mech, but against Orks, Guard, Eldar etc Flcikering Flame still seems more useful.


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## Madden (Jan 22, 2012)

Unfortunately horrors arnt any good in cc and not as a tarpit in your example you forgot instability so 3/4 dead then test on 3/4 if you fail you lose the difference so average another 3/4 and with ws2 noway are they staying past second round max. 
In my area there's a lot of runes/wolves/gk/nids so even getting a power off is a challenge the all the chances to stop it so unless it's a mono I'm afraid there a waste.
Sorry to be such a downer on them but it's my opinion and experience from my games.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Actually matey they are WS3... Regardless, it's still 4's vs. 3's to hit. Look at the WS table in the back of the rulebook to clear away confusion. It doesn't effect the numbers I crunched in the above argument. 

But I did underestimate the casualties from Daemonic Instability - I will give you that (I factored in just 1 casualty). So add another 2 casualties to the average. What are we looking at now? 6 per turn? That is still enough to tarpit for about 3 turns.

I am in no way saying that Horrors are good assault units - not at all. They are quite appalling. I am just demonstrating that if you are running a mono-list like me and are stuck with them, then they aren't as terrible as you might think. And if faced with a unit like this charging it before it charges you is the best thing you can do. 

I dunno, it could just be some amazing luck, but i've managed to tarpit a marine Command Squad and TH/SS squad for 3-4 turns with them in the last 4 or 5 games. Both were worth around or over 200pts from what I remember. Worth it? If it keeps them away from my other scoring units then I think yes. I think they would probably stand more of a chance against tactical squads and are probably okay at dealing with small squads from popped transports, drop pods (unless they are DC of course, which will just laugh at them) etc. 

I am going to try Infernal Gate next time I play MEQ and see if it helps (even killing 1 termie or MEQ before assault is going to be a significant benefit). 

I will admit though Horrors have been nerfed big time (along with most Tzeentch units) and they are the worst troop choice. Just I am trying to make the best of them for those of us crazy/dedicated enough to continue using Mono-Tzeentch lists.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Infernal Gateway is useless on Pinkies because it's impossible to cast once you're down to 10 or fewer Horrors. Note that you most certainly CANNOT! carry over unsued Warp Charges from turn to turn. (BRB pg66 - Generating Warp Charge)
I've seen a couple other local Daemon players trying to run MSU Horrors and aiming for Bolt, but it's still a crap-shoot when they don't land it and are forced to take Flickering Fire which is horrid on such a unit. Plus that Beam has bad habbit of hitting other units you don't want it to hit and giving out Warpflame tests...

I've just kept to 2x18 strong squads w/Iridescent Horror (2 Lesser Gifts), Blasted Standard & Instrument.
One is led by a purely support Herald, (Exalted Locus, 3 Lesser Gifts, Flickering Fire, 2 Divination)
The other squad is led by a more lighthearted/fun Herald who's currently trying out Greater Locus of Change, Mutating Warblade, Lesser Gift, Flickering Fire & 2 Div powers. What can I say - I like my spawn factories!:angel:

With S6, the main shooty squad has ripped apart entire units - even single wound TEQ's with reliable ease. Wounding on 2's makes all the difference, especially against MEQ's!
The other squad tends to sit further forwards in my battle line and is the one that will typically get charged first. The reason for adding in the extra 25pts to the squad for the champ/rewards is to aim for Corrosive Breath, which is the safest way to trigger the Blasted Standard and can lead to a surprising Overwatch reaction of 1-2D3/S5 auto-hits which is then followed up by 2D6/S4 auto-hits. You typically only need to kill 2-3 enemies to stop a charge, unless they're right on top of you. (at which point, early castulties are simply gravy)

I'd tried out the Lesser Locus for a few games, but it really, really needs Biomancy's help to be effective. S2 even with lots of additional hits just doesn't cut it when it's typically wounding on 6's!
But, if you can work an Enfeeble or two in there, then it can be quite a shocking surprise.

I've had 1 game thus far with the Locus of Change and it was halariously good! My opponent threw 3 Ravenwing Bikers into the squad, having forgotten that those Horrors were currently S5!
The Herald picked-on the Sergeant and spawned him, while the rest of the squad eye-poked the other two bikers into submission.
Good for laughs, not likely a great idea for a Tourny or such if you're aiming to win some gaming prizes though...


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## Iniquity (Jan 13, 2013)

I agree that Horrors can be effective at tarpitting units. I've had games that I charged them against a CSM Daemon Prince, Khorne Berzerkers, Mephiston, etc and kept them locked up for 4-6 assault phases(2 - 3 turns). These were 20 Horrors with a Herald, so a 250 point unit, but it allowed other units to camp objectives and clear objectives. 

I've since gone away from Tzeentch in most of my games. The dominance of MEQ opponents and large Death Company blobs from some of them steered me away from giving them better Feel No Pain rolls.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

As a huge Tzeentch fan it pains me to admit this, but horrors are pretty darn awful in the new dex. Well, thats not entirely true because I find them to be the best troop choice to use when they are allying with my CSM, but that is for 1 reason only: The Aegis Defense Line. Why? Well, the unit is only 90 pts, largely ineffective at shooting and sucks at combat so all theres left is objective camping. With BS 3 they are decent at firing the Quad Cannon but more importantly: They are no longer fearless (they just autopass all morale tests) so they can now go to ground against any form of threatening shooting giving them a rerollable 2+ cover save! Which basically means that you have a 90 point unit that, on average, takes 100 rapid-firing space marines 3 turns to kill. Awesome! Just be watchful of units that can ignore their cover save because they can't really take that.

Unfortunately horrors just don't work as the bulk of, well any army really. They aren't tough with their bad save, low toughness and abysmal fighting skills and their shooting is erratic and even when it's best, underwhelming. Whereas bloodletters and daemonettes are dangerous when closing in and plaguebearers tougher in pretty much all other circumstances, horrors only seem to serve 1 role this edition. Luckily, they do that one thing really well.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Thanks for all the input. Some very mixed opinions still about this it seems, which is expected due to the chaotic nature of the codex I suppose (and it being relatively new). 

AARGHH!! How are you getting a 2+ re-rollable cover save behind an aegis? I know they can go to ground now but that only gives a 3+ cover save behind an Aegis. Where is the +1 and the re-roll coming from? I'd very much like to know. 

Iniquity: Yeah I know how you feel, I have a friend who plays DC and I am really hesitant about using Pink Horrors against them. Think if I come up against him I will take the bare minimum of Pink Horrors (so 10) as my compulsory 1 troop choice in my allied detachment and use the points elsewhere. I don't like list tailoring like this but don't feel like I have much choice if I sticking to a Tzeentch-only list.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

Straken's_Fist said:


> Thanks for all the input. Some very mixed opinions still about this it seems, which is expected due to the chaotic nature of the codex I suppose (and it being relatively new).
> 
> AARGHH!! How are you getting a 2+ re-rollable cover save behind an aegis? I know they can go to ground now but that only gives a 3+ cover save behind an Aegis. Where is the +1 and the re-roll coming from? I'd very much like to know.
> From reading the rules, dawg!
> ...


More specifically, in the BRB page 104 you'll find the rules for Battlefield debris. An ADL is, not surprisingly, a defense line which is described as providing a 4+ cover save and units going to ground behind them gets +2 to their cover save instead of the usual +1.
Furthermore, the Daemon of Tzeentch special rule (which Horrors very much have) allows you to reroll 1's on their saving throws, not just for their invulnerable saves, but any other saves they might have (like a DP's 3+ armour save).

Thus, Horros + ADL = ETERNAL IMMORTALITY!! Muhahahahahaa!


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH said:


> More specifically, in the BRB page 104 you'll find the rules for Battlefield debris. An ADL is, not surprisingly, a defense line which is described as providing a 4+ cover save and units going to ground behind them gets +2 to their cover save instead of the usual +1.
> Furthermore, the Daemon of Tzeentch special rule (which Horrors very much have) allows you to reroll 1's on their saving throws, not just for their invulnerable saves, but any other saves they might have (like a DP's 3+ armour save).
> 
> Thus, Horros + ADL = ETERNAL IMMORTALITY!! Muhahahahahaa!


Wow. Dunno how I missed that about the ADL considering how much I use the damn thing... 

Didn't even consider Daemon of Tzeentch re-rolls of 1 could be used for cover saves, but the way it's worded makes pretty it clear you can do this. 

I may get rid of my cultists now and just use a 10-20 unit of Pink Horrors behind my Aegis on an objective with Herald of Tzeentch next to my lascannon Havocs and the Icarus cannon. Herald can dish out Prescience to either the Horrors or the Havocs. Fun times. Thanks for explaining this for me. Think I will re-write some of my lists now as this seems like a great use for them with my CSMs. 

SF


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## Iniquity (Jan 13, 2013)

I never thought about dropping Horrors behind the line either. I'll need to consider that a little if I want to add them to my Nurgle list or not. 

Straken: I agree about list tailoring. I try to make a single list that can handle everybody, but I often make concessions for certain players that I might end up against. We have 2 DC players that run them in blobs and one Nurgle Marine player. Because of them, I pretty much limit my Tzeentch presence.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Inquity, a nurgle herald isn't a bad adl camper either. Bs5, shrouded? For under 50 points? That's not an easy thing to remove. And if you're feeling rather evil, give him a portal glyph and spawn horrors or PBS to man the gun if someone manages to kill the herald.


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## Jam123456 (Feb 9, 2012)

must admit i have found horrors hard to play. they are only 90 points but they do nothing. Shooting is at best abysmal. even with 4d6 s5 and add in a herrald to give them another 3d6 and use the prescience power as well to re roll all hits and they are still shit. even with a banner to get another 2d6 s4 hits added to my total i didn't get much. and then most marines will juts lose one or two guys and get FNP when they pass their toughness test. 

could try in small squads of 10 and just hope to get a few hits on flyers or transports but not very reliable. i think keep them cheap if you have to take them use them as a speed bump or as a distraction. if they end up in CC they are dead quickly I3 is very poor and then they will lose a few guys and fail instability and be dead. 

I do like the idea of the defense line.I think that could work really well. and an easy way to make them useful. may have to try that.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Yeah it works extremely well. 

I have traded my excess Horrors and just have 18 left now. I usually only use 10 behind the Aegis though, as it's usually not necessary to have anymore than that since all they are doing is going to ground. Herald of Tzeentch attached to them to fire the Quad Gun or Icarus, while casting prescience to Havocs to twin-link weapons. I find it a very useful
mini firebase.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

Straken's_Fist said:


> Yeah it works extremely well.
> 
> I have traded my excess Horrors and just have 18 left now. I usually only use 10 behind the Aegis though, as it's usually not necessary to have anymore than that since all they are doing is going to ground. Herald of Tzeentch attached to them to fire the Quad Gun or Icarus, while casting prescience to Havocs to twin-link weapons. I find it a very useful
> mini firebase.


One of the funny things about it is that once your opponent realises how hard they are to kill, he isn't ever going to bother shooting at them so they will almost always make their points back when manning a quad cannon.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Yeah that is exactly what has happened so far.


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