# 40k starting to decline?



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

So for the past few days I tried to get a game at my local game shops. I was surprised that more than half the time it was hard if not impossible to find a 40K game. Instead I seen less and less 40K games and MORE Warmachine/Hordes. I finally spent a 40k less day talking to a guy who had Tau. He said "I would play ya a game but I hate playing Tau." Given the shitty Dex update I agreed with him. But he asked if I wanted to play a Warmachine game. He had a Hordes army of man dragons. The other guys they're began to open my eyes to the awsomeness of Warmachine.

1) The Rules and Books/Dex are updated all at once. This is awsome as GW suffer from not giving a fuk about their armies and rules. As someone told me the GW games are more hobby base than gaming. They have units like DPs and Oblits that are a must for any CSM army, then they have Spawn and CSM lords that are Useless. They're a joke. However everything in the Warmachine world is useful and balance in someway. It was made for American meta Gaming it seems.

2) Privateer Press Models apparently was such high quality that GW was forced to up the anty on their models. So GW wouldnt probaly given a fuk if they werent force too.

3) Last but not least I almost fell down when I found out its 1/4 the price to build a large playable army. The Starter sets are $50 alone and is all u need to start playing. 

So after these facts I myself am thinking of giving the every year price jacking GW the finger, sell my stuff and start over with Warmachine. 

Warmachine isnt the only Hobby Game I seen replacing GW games in most of the FLGS. Flames of War is popular and so is the no hobby required AT-34(45? Whatever) game. that looks pretty cool too. 

So does anyone else think GW lack of giving a fuk and bleeding prices pushing people away and going with other Games?


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## comrade (Jun 30, 2008)

It saddens me when nowadays I see veteran IG armies instead of platoons for the single reason that sometimes the the other players can't afford to deploy platoons because our basic soldiers are 10 for $22.....

Luckily I had built mine for over half a decade, and have amassed over 300 guardsmen... and when apoc originally came out the troop deals they had were AMAZING.

Most of the guys at my FLGS have been running the same armies for over 3-4 years.


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

This can easily turn into a warmachine vs 40k debate thread. My $0.02 is simple I'm more in love with the 40k universe than the actual TTG. Whereas with warmachine, the gameplay and rules are much, much better. I just don't care for the setting all that much.


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## comrade (Jun 30, 2008)

Imperious said:


> This can easily turn into a warmachine vs 40k debate thread. My $0.02 is simple I'm more in love with the 40k universe than the actual TTG. Whereas with warmachine, the gameplay and rules are much, much better. I just don't care for the setting all that much.



:goodpostretty much describes my view at the end of the day.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

I think it depends on the game shop, the attitude of it's owner and patrons.

I see even play at one of the two shops I go to, and minimal war machine at the other.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Imperious said:


> This can easily turn into a warmachine vs 40k debate thread. My $0.02 is simple I'm more in love with the 40k universe than the actual TTG. Whereas with warmachine, the gameplay and rules are much, much better. I just don't care for the setting all that much.


Okay thats fine and dandy, but Warmachine is the example I use because I never cared to give it a second look until 40k started to die out at all my FLGS. As I said Before other Games like Flames of War, At-43, even Mantic are more played now than 40k. I want to know if anyone has this experiance lately, and why that is.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Warmachine is a wonderful game, and tbh, 40k is getting old fast. But then I found a wondrous little thing called a dwarf and now GW has me again.

40k is still pretty hot here though, although you can pretty much get a game of whateverthehellyouwant whenever you want to... Well game nights. Otherwise its the fagity ass magic shit marks, no offense to whoever plays it.


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## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

In my area 40k isn't on a decline and around the time of my 2nd 40k game ever the shop manager was playing hordes with one of the guys, he was later shunned at school. IMO GW has to many loyal customers and kids coming in every day. Nothing is more satisfying though the fluff than some of the armys.


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## Kaji Kumo (Nov 15, 2010)

Imperious said:


> This can easily turn into a warmachine vs 40k debate thread. My $0.02 is simple I'm more in love with the 40k universe than the actual TTG. Whereas with warmachine, the gameplay and rules are much, much better. I just don't care for the setting all that much.


 
yes i agree, i like the 40k setting more, just by looking over warmachine briefly it is cheaper but theres only two different races really, either Horde or Warmachines. Also with all the money i put into ma boyz i cant turn on em now, THE KILLIN JUS STARTIN' WAAAAAAGH!!!! I think over time 40k will pick up again, especially if GW has competition now.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

I personally couldn't care less if 40K is declining in my area or not..my last 150/200 games have been at either my or any of 4 mate's homes..so it's going strong for me.
In the end it comes down to the 40K universe and the collecting side of the hobby for me. Same goes for my Dwarfs, although I haven't played a single game for probably 2/3 years.

I have 4/5 GW/LGS within an hour and a half of me, and the closest one has never played 40K instore, only WH Fantasy and now Warmachine/FOW. They are mainly Tournament players and 40K isn't a strong enough ruleset for them.

The other 4 stores are all GW's so obviously both 40K and Fantasy are the only ones played. One of them is a Bunker and it always seems busy whenever I'm there catching up with people.

I know about 50/60 40K players and they all play regularly and also start new armies while adding to their collections, so spending isn't curbed either..although it is all bought from overseas on-line sites, not locally.


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## angelXD19 (Feb 11, 2010)

40k actually picked up around my area. a lot of the people around here seem to dislike the new edition for fantasy. there is some FOW players and some warmachine/horde players ( me included ). I like both systems plus it's nice to have a change of pace once in a while and not get bored with one system


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Likewise, 40k has picked up momentum in my area, leaving Fantasy all but dead and those who dislike 40k are either playing Warmachine like the other brainless trolls who already played it, or are crying in the corner.

I mean no offense to WHFB or WM players, I`m just bagging out the guys in my area who couldn`t cope with a bit of change. Losers. :sarcastichand:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

40k on the decline LOL 
people have been broadcasting the "impending death" of 40k for 25 years, people have also been touting which game systems everyone's playing instead, that's right folks before war machine, there were other games that were taking all the players away from 40k, and for a moment one particular one "magic the gathering" gave it a serious kicking, but guess what 40k weathered it. But seriously people 40k has never been as popular. Just because the games isnt as popular in your neck of the woods for the last couple of years does not mean that the rest of the world isnt going through a purple patch.


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## wombat_tree (Nov 30, 2008)

I really don't get why people like the Warmachine models, half the models look like utter shit. Some of the hordes models are all right but otherwise they're crap too.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Yes Magic the Gathering seems to be the only thing thatbeats 40k in #s and where its sold. I mean people everywhere know of MTG but scratch their head at the mention of Warhammer anything. Most people seem to think its D&D. Well Im glad to hear 40k is still strong in other areas. I guess Ill sell a portion of my armies (I have like 6000 Pt CSMs anyway) and start collecting Warmachine and even MTG (again) so I dont have to worry about gameless nights. Till the 40k come back.


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

I love both 40k and MTG, and I'm probably gonna start War Machine soon, but I will always and forever be a 40k player, even in War Machine is more fun. I've just spent too much time and money and made too many friends to just drop out.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I find it weird reading this type of thread. 40k and warhammer are all about the long game and that includes the cycles from when we are very into the systems and when we are looking for something different/new, you dont have "quit" it or "sell" anything, you just pack it away and leave it stored for a few years until you get the urge, and trust me you will, flash in the pan games like warmachine will come and go, back when i was at my most prolific at wargaming we had all the "specialist" games to play and things like Battletech and a favorite of mine Star Fleet battles (star trek) plus 15mm napolionics and ancients, I never felt that i had to "quit" or "sell" up because the games of 40k took a back burner for a few years.

But this thread also feels alot like in the words of the OP "FUK U GW" and started to stir up the PP vs GW crap, which inevitably leads to people coming to the same conclusion which is this is a 40K forum and the vast majority of people come here for 40K related discussion, even the warhammer sections dont get that much trafic and the WarHordes section barely gets any traffic at all and if it does its from regulars who came here for the 40k portion. 
Also should be noted that Heresy recently topped the traffic league in the UK for Forums, which if proof was needed shows 40k isnt on the decline its very ripe and healthy.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

What? From what I have seen, I would say that it is just getting more popular!


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

I personally see no reason why the two can't exist simultaneously? Everyone always talks like one is going to overcome the other. Burger king and mcdonalds live side by side. Pepsi and Coke. Etc. I see no reason why PP and GW can't live side by side. 

B&K made one very good point though. There's no reason to ged rid of anything. If you've been bitten by the bug once you're just as likely if not more so, to be bitten again. Just pack it away and store it. One days years later you might have the urge to play it again.


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

That's probably what's gonna happen to me eventually. But I'm a 40k player through and through.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

I considered getting into warmahordes a few months back. But after looking at it, the game just didnt seem that exciting to play. And I couldnt care less about how the models look. Goofy oversized weapons, weird artwork, and pretty basic rules. As many problems as there are in 40k, I think ill stick with it.

With that said, I have gotten into heavy gear, which is a very fun and well written game.


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## StalkerZero (Oct 3, 2010)

Seems to be a bit of a decline here in Northeast Ohio. All of the shops that I visit say all of their players have stopped showing up. I haven't been able to find a single tournament within 30 miles where they said a year ago business was booming.

A lot of it around here though could be the quality of our gaming shops. You have the overly crowded store that is so filled with merchandise you have to turn sideways to walk down the isles, a local franchise that used to support gaming in store but instead decided to do MtG draft only in store because it makes money right there and then, and a shop where the college kids just stopped buying games and started buying only comics.


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## Yllib Enaz (Jul 15, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> I find it weird reading this type of thread. 40k and warhammer are all about the long game and that includes the cycles from when we are very into the systems and when we are looking for something different/new, you dont have "quit" it or "sell" anything, you just pack it away and leave it stored for a few years until you get the urge, and trust me you will, flash in the pan games like warmachine will come and go, back when i was at my most prolific at wargaming we had all the "specialist" games to play and things like Battletech and a favorite of mine Star Fleet battles (star trek) plus 15mm napolionics and ancients, I never felt that i had to "quit" or "sell" up because the games of 40k took a back burner for a few years.
> .


I agree, its happened in my local group several times, but we always come back to 40k. A few of my mates sold their 40k stuff only to regret it when we came back to.

Also Star Fleet Battles is a great game if you have the time available to play it (one to get back into for my retirement I think)


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Hmm, recently I've been cutting back on the 40k myself, but I wouldn't say it's in decline one bit. If anything it's getting even more popular to the point where I'd say it's eclipsed Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

Personally I'd just say I'm getting a little bored with my current army, expanding my interests in other areas and discovering something much more expensive. My car!


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> I find it weird reading this type of thread. 40k and warhammer are all about the long game and that includes the *cycles* from when we are very into the systems and when we are looking for something different/new,


Thats it, pure and simple. Any collectable game runs in a cycle. You play for a few years, burn out for a few months, then you're back in to playing again. You can't be on the game all of the time, it just won't last. You need something new to catch your interest, like a codex update, and you'll be playing against your buddies again in no time.



ChugginDatHaterade said:


> With that said, I have gotten into heavy gear, which is a very fun and well written game.


Love Heavy Gear, bigger fan of Battletech, but Heavy Gear has some great models.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

I don't think 40k is declining, there seems to be just as many players and fans as ever. If anything, the large number of forums and them having to add games days, and them making 40k movies and video games and the entire black libary collection etc is showing that it has increased in popularity over the years.

That said, the increasing cost and the lack of updates does affect the game. You need at least £200 in some cases to get an effective army, compared to Fantasy where its much less... Plus, the large number of outdated and unbalenced codexs is also a problem. Sisters, Demonhunters, Tau and until recently Dark Eldar... 4 armies with Codexs so outdated you couldn't do anything usefull with them... but then too you have the problem of too many samey codexs.. all the marine variants when the lists end up being extremely similar appart from unit names.

Other gaming systems do not have the model quality or the support and popularity to really compete with GW at the moment... 40k does need an overhaul, but its certainly not decling.


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

I generally change armies every six months to a year just to freshen up how I play the game and encounter different stratergies and tactics. I also take part in a bit of Blood Bowl and got into War Machine in the summer. I read a go article on Dakka Dakka regarding Warmachine and 40K and taking out people's opinions on model quality and so forth they offer different styles of game play and problem solving. 

Having been a GW diehard throughout my gaming career I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of PP models and the lack of flashing on them. Warmachine plays differently to 40K but there are some tactics and ploys that can be transferred between the two. I like a bit of change of pace every now and again and it's nice to play some thing different for a bit.

I would not say that one is either better than the other, although the warmachine rule book is vastly superior to the 40K rule book, especailly when looking at value for money, but they are different games with different styles of play.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I have only seen games of warmachine, and have never played. To be honest I was not enthralled enough to want to move away from 40k. I like the bigger games that are possible with the imperfect GW rules systems.

I do play other games, although I have not played SFB (Star fleet battles) for many many years. 

Interestingly I am always reading about the decline of GW's systems, yet they keep making a profit, even in the hard times, so they must be doing something right. I think the 2 systems can happily co exist, and having more than one strong gaming system can only be good for the hobbyist.


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## LKKMateo (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm going to "concur." I don't think 40k is in decline. PP can coexist with GW easily enough.

Me and my friends have been tossing up the idea of all of us purchasing the starter set for war/horde and the main reason is because after everyone get's home from a hard day at work, there really is just no energy to sit and play large scale battles. So the "Flash in the Pan" works for certain people, and it fits others lifestyles.

Definitely a good thing though for GW to start getting some competition. Games around my area have died completely. But 2 hrs from where i live 40k exploded! So... >.> 2 hr drives for games now!


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## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

I think the reason 40k seems to be on the decline is that it is a VERY expensive hobby, and we (The Pacific Northwest anyway) are still in a recession. I know my enthusiasm for the game is as great as it ever was, but I've stopped going to my local League and haven't bought anything in over a month because i simply can't afford it.

I'm sure once the economy picks back up the superfluous ultra-expensive plastic space-men community will pick back up as well.


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

They have stopped selling BL books in Waterstones in my town and you cannot get 40K anywhere...


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

One of the intersting things with certain markets is that recessions do not alawys effect them, such as people's hobbies. Now this global recession is a bit different from the one that occurs every 10 years or so but when people are depressed they still manage to scrimp enough money together to buy booze, toys and video games etc.


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## hijynx (Aug 7, 2009)

Whereas it used to be common to go to my FLGS on the weekend and see 4-5 tables full of 40k at any given moment, now the crowd is more diverse. Warmachine/Hordes and Malifaux seem to be just as popular now a days, Malifaux in particular has taken off where I play. It's a fun game, and a nice change of pace from 40k. The 40k players haven't stopped playing 40k, they've just added to their crack-habit with other systems.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> He said "I would play ya a game but I hate playing Tau."


This. I -hate- playing this game anymore. Bunch of cars, combat armies are turrible unless they're nid or twolves.

Shitsux. If I wanted to play cars with guns I'd play twisted metal.


But warmachine is also shit. It's great if you love blowing your load in a single turn as opposed to tactics throughout the battle. The support is much better.


GW is kinda shit on taking care of 40k, I sincerely believe they don't give a fuck anymore which is a shame as it's such a beautiful setting.


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Hmm. How does one so positive possibly get banned? Lolz


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## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

Imperious said:


> Hmm. How does one so positive possibly get banned? Lolz


 Maybe Jezlad is a Buddhist-

_*'Do not speak, unless it improves on the silence.'*_
-*Buddha* 

I do think 40k is declining, but not as drastically as you think - I see more and more people go to Fantasy - But remember.. they just had a new Edition out; it's bound to attract attention!

While a lot of people are now going to Warmachine - I think that's because so many people are saying it's amazing, when they've only played like 5 games.

40K is old news, it needs a big re-vamp and some caring owners; otherwise it will do as everything else GW can't be bothered to do anything to: Rogue Trader. :cray:


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

40k is declining in my local area, not through lack of commitment but through lack of the veterans being able to play whatever game they want on the vetsnight. We now have to play a set rules system which is differant each week and if we do not play fantasy on fantasy week, we are not allowed to play 40k instead, and vica versa. It is a shame that Gw dont give a fuck about their games or their customer base. With that said i think i might start up warmachine and give it ago.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

STAR FLEET BATTLES?? hell yeah! first table top game I ever played and I was like ten. Dad had to kick somebody's ass after not playing since his college years i guess haha.

once I got a hold of the Hydran stuff it led to some really good battles though.


anyway.....

There's no way imo that 40k can be in any sort of major decline. What with the movie and several video games now on multiple systems and styles (rts, mmo, soon to be fps) its been attracting lots of new kids I'm sure.

I think GW is becoming more and more online based though sales wise, they did a major cut back on store location i think here in the U.S. within the last couple years. I guess maybe they figure most their sales come from online and it was costing them more than they needed to spend to keep that number of stores open and there's plenty of universal hobby stores that seem to hold table top games and tables to use. *shrug* i'dunno

I looked at warmachine but it seems so unorganized compared to GW. GW knows how to sell and with the number of years behind them I'd hope so. Well, market at least, prices is another thing. I hate navigating the privateer press site. It frustrating and yeah the background is just hard to wrap my head around and I dont know why exactly but i never read far before losing interest. The warjacks or whatever they are, the dreadnought-like things for the most part look friggin awesome but I dont care for any of the infantry or anything else really.

edit** Oh and BTW I'm sure warmachine is cheap right now because they are still relatively very new, they're still getting off the ground sorta thing. The more popular and expansive it gets, the more expensive it will get, naturally.


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

> There's no way imo that 40k can be in any sort of major decline. What with the movie and several video games now on multiple systems and styles (rts, mmo, soon to be fps) its been attracting lots of new kids I'm sure.


I agree with this 100%. 

I'm really not sure how it could be declining. In fact if anything I'll say they're on the incline. With a movie and various video games in the works it's only going to get better. 

Now that being said...

I've played a few more games of warmachine lately I can say that the game is awesome and it's not going away anytime soon. The funny thing is the vast, and I mean vast majority of warmachine players are former 40k players. There's something to be said about that.


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## Luisjoey (Dec 3, 2010)

Warmachine have 7 years, 40k around 20; something have that keep him alive! 

40k is going into multimedia (or massmedia); they have videogames, boardgames, card games, specialist games, roleplaying and now a movie! maybe thats the secret of the success

privateer is trying the same with specialist games and boardgames, roleplaying in iron kingdoms is not enough because we already have D&D.


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## Andersmash (Dec 2, 2010)

I've been on a 12 year hiatus from 40k, but I can't wait to get back into it - definately been bitten by the bug again. 

If GW cleaned up their act (slightly reducing prices on certain packages, organizing their teams to deal with issues i.e. working on all the codecies together to promote balance and demote favoritism between what's new at this exact moment and what's older than dirt) they could make a much better profit. Obviously there are those of us that have experienced WH40k and keep coming back for whatever reasons we have, but I feel that by organizing their shitstorm of products and abolishing favoritism among certain armies they would increase their tabletop fanbase. When the new DE's came out, how many people went DE? If GW can hold back for a moment and build up on what they can give to their fans instead of releasing it slowly so something is always changing and by the time the latest edition is fully updated they come out with a new edition, they would be on the right track to fix this game. 

Obviously I'm not talking about not releasing anything with regularity like they do, but at least codex and rules all come out at one time. Erratta and FAQ FTW.


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## Corporal Chaos (Nov 27, 2007)

I am not going to feed the fire of GW bashing. It is a buisness...bottom line. However I do not feel that 40K as a hobby is in decline. They have been around for a long time and are dug in like a tick on a hound. (Blood sucking pun intended) The introduction of new and different games is a good thing and will keep our Citadel supplier on its toes. The winds of the hobby change often and may blow the interests of the players to other things. What I am trying to say is that what ever game you choose to play there will always be something different come along that Looks better. There are really not enough likenesses to take all the interest from one to another completely. Variety is the spice of life.


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## Flindo (Oct 30, 2010)

noone at my hobby shop plays warmachine, they call it a rip off


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

> noone at my hobby shop plays warmachine, they call it a rip off


That makes no sense.


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

While on vacation, I happened to stop in the local hobby shop where I learned how to play 40k and bought the majority of my CSM from. I was quite disheartened to see that the wall that used to be covered from floor to ceiling with 40k anf fantasy was gone, replaced by Flames of War and Warmachine, relegating the former two to a shelf in the middle of the store Talking to the owner, he said that most of the core locals had switched to the others due to affordability as well as general speed and scenarios. The economy definitely had hit the store hard, and I actually found it hard to find a game.


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