# Chaos Ogres & Ogre Bulls



## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

I want to make a unit of Chaos Ogres (yes I know they're slated by a lot of people but I still want to use them) using the Ogre Bull models and I was wondering if anyone can tell me, without infringing copyright or running foul of the moderators, how similar the stat lines are.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

The Sullen One said:


> I want to make a unit of Chaos Ogres (yes I know they're slated by a lot of people but I still want to use them) using the Ogre Bull models and I was wondering if anyone can tell me, without infringing copyright or running foul of the moderators, how similar the stat lines are.


The stats are identical (before the addition of Equipment/Marks of Chaos)

Equipment options are (obviously) slightly different.

I am curious why the game stats would matter for a conversion.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Only differences are that bulls have better weapons to strat with and they each have a few weapon options, OK ogres get impact hits and chaos ogres can get good armour. 

I've seen plenty of chaos armies run ogres and do decently well.. though never an army that you really fear to play (unlike some other WoC armies I've seen).


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Chaos Ogres are useless until properly equipped, at which point Dragon Ogres and Trolls do the job far better, for only a little bit more expenditure (and Dragon Ogres have the capability of going for both Infantry and Armour).


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

It used to be that one would run dragon ogres or trolls over chaos ogres but that has changed. Chaos ogres can now rank up three or four wide and carry chaos armour and add a mark for a nice flanking and support unit that runs well with and compliments chaos knoghts, warriors and chosen units. They are somewhat vulnerable to getting shot up but they actually are a better points value per attack relative to dragon ogres when marked with khorne and don't panic with khorne and can check their charge with leadership tests with khorne. Additionally, the difference between M7 of dragon ogres and M6 of chaos ogres is not as great of an issue in 8th edition as it was in 7th edition. The real issue is that one can better afford two ranks of chaos ogres (with the full three supporting attacks for each model in the second rank) than dragon ogres. The point is that, under 8th edition rules, chaos ogres and dragon ogres are about a push in terms of which to run and chaos ogres are favoured when you can afford a second rank and pay for chaos armour and mark of khorne. 

Trolls are awesome when run with Throgg (special characters generally not allowed) but are very vulnerable to flaming and stupidity. They can tear through heavy cav with vomit attacks (autohits, no armour save) allowed (per the FAQ) from the supporting rank. They can survive heavy shooting as long as it is not flaming better than ogres and dragon ogres due to regen. Additionally, if they get two regens or more in a turn they get a roll on the eye of the gods table. The problem is that they really have to be close to a general and BSB in order to be reliable, so make sense as a supporting, flanking unit to a chaos knight bus or a chosen deathstar with +1 movement banner.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Dragon Ogres have a 4+ Armour Save, S5 Basic, 4 Wounds.

Trolls have Regen, Vomit, and Rolls on EotG (which goes nicely with a Valkia and 2 Shrine Army).

Mark of Khorne doesn't increase your Supporting attacks, so you're getting only 4 Extra Attacks. Admittedly cheaply, but at Lower WS to Dragon Ogres.

They're slower the DOgres, and don't have that Magic S7 Great Weapon, while ADHW again doesn't benefit from supporting attacks, as well as having lower strength.

And yes, while DOgres don't benefit as much from the increased movement as everything can 2nd Turn Charge now pretty much, the point remains that they have extra strength, extra wounds, and can afford a little bit more leeway. Throw on top of that someone stupid enough to target them with lightning and suddenly they get the only thing that the Ogres are missing - the extra attack from Frenzy.

Throgg is not a Special Character - he's a unique model. And pretty much every GW tourny I've been to allows the use of them unless they require opponents permission. If you've got Throgg, he's the only combat hero you need as he's got the Copious Vomit and Troll Plus stats. Not to mention that the best way to run them IS as the core of the army.

I will conceed though that Ogres are not completely useless. They're cheap multiwound creatures and when given Mark of Nurgle is probably the premier range shield.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

I think ironguts models will be better as Chaos Ogres, since you can give them armor and great weapons that way. 

I think Chaos Ogres are definitely worth it if you give them great weapons and chaos armor, but I wouldn't bother giving them a mark. They'd be too expensive that way.

I don't like trolls because I hate using units with the stupidity rule, and dragon ogres cost too much, both in points and real $.


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## Flindo (Oct 30, 2010)

someone at my gameshop uses the Ogre bulls as chaos Ogres, because he just likes the models better, since I beleive they are a newer mould.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

One thing to consider is points cost. If Dragon Ogres cost the same as Chaos Ogres, then DOs would be better, but the points cost per wound and points cost per attacks favour Ogres with chaos armour and great weapons. Also, contrary to what is suggested, the mark of khorne will pay off over time and makes total sense when one considers the ITP and extra attacks, especially when one can afford to run a total of 8 models in two ranks, which is rarely affordable with dragon ogres. Your are paying about 15 points per attack for ogres and even more per attack for dragon ogres, so a mark that adds 4 extra attacks and avoids panics pays for itself immediately and makes the chaos ogres more cost effective.


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