# Warhammer 40k Alliances



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Ok, heres my deal, I like 40k alot, however fluff wise I like WFB as I read more and more of there books. Lets face it the whole "There is only War" gets old fast, like a GTA game where all the missions is done all is left is running around AIMLESSLY killing people. It Gets old. Same with 40K Fluff. This whole Galaxy is at war and thats fine, but whu is it always IG/SM versus everyone? Why is there no Eldar/Tau (as much Fluff support it) team ups heard of? Why no books or Dexd entrys of SMs making alliances and holding those alliances with races that are willing. What happen to SQUATS having a Empire that held treatise with Imperials and work together as individual races?

I understand orks are a temporary alliance at best, Nids and Necs are imppossible, but the whole anti Xenos when it comes to Eldar, Tau, and any minor "friendly" Xeno its kill on sight? The Ordo Malleus makes friends with the Harlys to combat Chaos together. Cool, but on the other hand Ordo Xenos has Deathwatch to kill Eldar on sight!!! WTF.... does this not sound contridicting? In the WFB game Elves/Man/Darwfs/Lizard Men can form strong ties of alliance and will even come to the others aid to help. Interesting stories take place when friends help out and deep stories of betrayel happen as well. But 40K its all gun n kill anything thats not Human or SM. Gets boring. As a Result I play Chaos, at least the Daemons, Orks, Dark Eldar, and Renegade IG form better alliances (if short live) than any of the Imperial one. Is this a pratical approach to the books of 40K or is it gettin old?


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Mostly because each and every other "major" alien race we see is looking out for themselves.

The Eldar have been more than willing to sacrifice human lives to save theirs. We're seen as short lived and arrogant beings not worthy of inheriting the galaxy.

The Tau are also a bunch of bastards. Look at their Greater Good. They treat all the races (even their supposed allies) as second class citizens. Read closer.

And Tau and Eldar get along? I can't see the Eldar agreeing to the Great Good. And if us humans who've been plaguing space for the last 25 thousand odd years or so are an immature race, what about the Tau who just mastered fire less than 10 years ago supposed to be?

And the xenophobia was handed down by the God-Emperor himself. GOD-Emperor. When your god says something, you obey it. Whether or not he regrets it is irrelevant since he can't communicate his thoughts.

And the Adeptus Mechanicus is definitely a separate entity than the rest of the Imperium. They have their own laws, hierarchy, ideals, and armies. They're so attached to the Imperium because of the Emperor's foresight and clever maneuvers.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

hailene said:


> Mostly because each and every other "major" alien race we see is looking out for themselves. True
> 
> The Eldar have been more than willing to sacrifice human lives to save theirs. We're seen as short lived and arrogant beings not worthy of inheriting the galaxy.Thats true, yet the Harliquins will open up their greatest secrets to the DH Inquisitors.
> 
> ...



I agree that SMs, IG, Inquisition, and Adepyus Machanicus are allies hardcore, but they're all human. So again WTF.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Warlock in Training said:


> I agree that SMs, IG, Inquisition, and Adepyus Machanicus are allies hardcore, but they're all human. So again WTF.


adeptus mechanicus hardcore allies?, I wouldn't say so, they probably trust everyone about the same as leaving your child alone with a priest.

There more secluded and more like loners than even Dark angels, seeing them fight alongside anyone willingly is as rare as finding a Virgin in essex


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

True that but they are no more enemies than SMs to the Imperial Order.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Warlock in Training said:


> True that but they are no more enemies than SMs to the Imperial Order.


I dunno, they do wear allot of red, and anyone who wears red in 40k is usually a traitor, it may just be that simple


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I think you're misunderstanding the power of the Tau empire. They're a tiny empire made of up a few dozen planets.

What real benefit would the Eldar have with allying with them? To become members (read servants) of the Tau Empire. I think the codex is pretty clear that the integrated races work "alongside their Tau overseers." 

And those happy Imperium worlds were 1. Filled with rogue traders and other malcontents and 2. It took them decades of "insinuat[ing] themselves" and "whisper[ing] long-rehearsed words into willing ears." It's not like they threw them a ticker-tape parade the second the Tau appeared on their scanners.

I mean, I could see the Eldar manipulating the Tau to do their bidding over the course of centuries. Maybe even usurping the Tau Empire.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Warlock has a point there I think. I'm getting bored of 40K's overall setup too, its just a huge Free For All game of Dawn of War, with random shit happening everywhere, narrated by rabid Imperium-fans (GOD-EMPRAH anyone?). Thats why I don't really read anything outside Chaos-related stories, they're bound to be stinking Imperial bullshit. Even my Codex is Imperial! I don't really care for the Imperium, nor humanity, so why not give every race their own voice? Imagine an Ork Codex with Orkish spelling, grammar, and mentality. Imagine a Chaos Codex that isn't about "blasphemous heretics screwing our world, OMFG INCOMING DOOMZDAY", but the perspectives of the ancient Chaos Marines, who fight the Emperor because he betrayed them in one way or another. Where is Horus' dream? An Empire of Chaos? Its so sad that a faction with rich background material and phylosophy gets downgraded to hell-worshipping violent madmen who used to be Astartes. Having read the WHFB WoC Army Book I think that 40K is meant for 13-year-old boys, who only need a deep-looking-but-in-fact-retarded reason to start killing each other. I mean look at it, it has an alphabet for sorcery! How cool is that! And the little stories there, they're actually well-written! And the artwork! Its not the same stuff you've got used to in your previous Codex! And what do we get in 40K? Bullshit. Utter bullshit. Like Failabaddon and Black Legion crap with some "we're trying to make it relevant/worth noticing" Red Corsairs Renegade Chapter crap. You see? Even our crap is outnumbered by the awesome things in WoC!

So yeah, I'm getting a bit bored too.


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## Ardias26 (Sep 26, 2008)

here here..some people finally say what needs to be said, fluffwise I'd always imagined the imperium and 40kverse in general to be a bit more broad than 'theres only war' crap, what about tzeentch, the great manipulator, and perhaps some fluff about non imperial humans who ARENT actually chaos worshippers.

I do like the whole grimdark thing with there not being any 'good guys' but I think that GW and BL needs to broaden the storyline a little bit beyond 'its only war'.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> Thats true, yet the Harliquins will open up their greatest secrets to the DH Inquisitors.


Firstly, the Harlequins don't represent the Eldar race as a whole. Secondly only a minimal amount of Inquisitors have had limited access to the Black Library, and it was deemed so because they were found to be no threat and uncorruptable. 

Its hardly a strong example of a behind-the-scenes alliance between the Eldar and Humans.



Warlock in Training said:


> Sigh, hes not a god. Thats the Imperial propaganda, he didnt even want to be worship, and SMs do not worship him, Imperials of mutiple planets revere him but not worship him. As for Xenophobia why are the Daemonhunters, who are the INQUISITION, working with Eldar? Hmmm..


The term 'god' is totally ambiguous in 40k. Who are you to say the Emperor isn't a god? 

To my knowledge its only most of the Astartes and most of the AdMech who don't worship the Emperor as a god. The Ecclesiarchy forces the Imperial Cult on every human they realistically can, which is pretty much everyone bar most Astartes Chapters and the AdMech.

The Daemonhunters/Inquisition are not working with the Eldar. As I said the Harlequins don't represent the Eldar race as a whole, just because they have let a few uncorruptable Inquisitors into the Black Library doesn't mean that the Craftworlds should start working alongside the Astartes. The Inquisition is just as xenophobic as the rest of the Imperium, maybe with minimal exceptions.



Warlock in Training said:


> Ok, heres my deal, I like 40k alot, however fluff wise I like WFB as I read more and more of there books. Lets face it the whole "There is only War" gets old fast, like a GTA game where all the missions is done all is left is running around AIMLESSLY killing people. It Gets old. Same with 40K Fluff. This whole Galaxy is at war and thats fine, but whu is it always IG/SM versus everyone? Why is there no Eldar/Tau (as much Fluff support it) team ups heard of? Why no books or Dexd entrys of SMs making alliances and holding those alliances with races that are willing. What happen to SQUATS having a Empire that held treatise with Imperials and work together as individual races?


Right ok. Think of it like this:

If in WHF, The Sigmarite Empire ruled over the vast majority of the world - and the cults of Ulric and Sigmar both preached human supremacy and were highly xenophobic we would end up in a similar situation.

If the High Elves floated around the oceans on massive Dragon-Ships and Ulthuan had been conquered by the Sigmarites, if the Dark Elves lived in a small underwater city, if the great Dwarf Holds were vassals of the Emperor, the forces of Chaos remained at the poles, the great empire of Cathay and the Ogre Kingdoms had been subdued and most other races were being dominated by or were hiding from the Empire...

We would end up in a similar situation as we have in 40k...

Given the precedents, the situation we have ended up in in the 40k galaxy is not far-fetched and is perfectly justified.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I think you took the Harlies working with Inquisition example the wrong way. I know they dont represent Eldar, what I'm saying is they are the closest example of Xenos working with Humans in 40K. Also the only real example of a truce of any kind. Yet the Inquisition is all about KILL, KILL, KILL XENOS!!! So again WTF? Lame.....

Also the Imperial Cult DOES NOT exist on every Planet. Some Planets in BL Books dont even know about the EMPRAH. Oh and hes not a god. Hes a rotting Corpse, thanks to Horus:mrgreen:. 

The point I was making on this Thread to is Warhammer 40K is stale as hell when it comes to its plot. Its all the same Kill, Kill, Kill, and a little Imperial Propaganda. However WFB Fluff is so rich with diversity, alliances, progressing characters. It sucks that the futur is boring. However the Soul Drinkers and Horus Heresy Books are awsome ofcourse. It seems after the HH everything bacame lame and half ass. Soul Drinkers provide a very cool outlook of a Chapter sick of the BS too .


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> I think you took the Harlies working with Inquisition example the wrong way. I know they dont represent Eldar, what I'm saying is they are the closest example of Xenos working with Humans in 40K. Also the only real example of a truce of any kind. Yet the Inquisition is all about KILL, KILL, KILL XENOS!!! So again WTF? Lame.....
> The thing is, the main Inquisitors that kill Xenos aren't DH Inquisitors, they're mainly WH or Xenos, and since DH Inquisitors try to fulfill whatever mission they're in, which almost always include daemons, they'll obviously be more lenient, though reluctant/wary, to temporarily allying himself with the Harlies. And even then it is a very tiny minority of the DH Inquisitors. You also forgot to think that the DH Inquisitors could be just using the alliance as a means to an end, since a traitor/daemon will almost always be worse than an xenos, not to mention he could try to plan some way of eliminating the Harlies right after their usefulness is at an end, so its not that unbelievable.
> 
> Also the Imperial Cult DOES NOT exist on every Planet. Some Planets in BL Books dont even know about the EMPRAH. Oh and hes not a god. Hes a rotting Corpse, thanks to Horus:mrgreen:.
> ...


This I can't deny, the fluff is getting really repetitive and I have to agree on the viewpoint being too much on the Imperials, even if they are one of the main guys in the story. Personally if you ask me, they should try to advance the plot, with the Emperor's throne finally failing, the Astronomican failing with humanity finally on its knees making it seem closer and closer to their end and then BAM! The End Times come, the missing Primarchs return, fluff starts changing, the 3rd war of Armaggedon finally comes out with the victor (probably Orks) a new Hive Fleet coming in, Tau fighting Eldar as they start encroaching on Eldar territory, DE reappearing with a vengeance, The Void Dragon awakening and tearing the AdMech from within, and Chaos finally breaks through Cadia, stuff like that. :victory:


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

You mean the end of 40K? Not gonna happen, it would be even worse than now. At least currently the Imperium is balancing on a knife edge and it still has a chance of survival, the picture you just painted can be summed up in 3 words- We be fucked.

@Warlock in Training- if you're going to be pedantic then yes not every planet has the Imperial Cult on it, but every planet in the Imperium that isn't a Forge World (or another type of Ad-Mech run planet) does- going by the belief that the planets that SM recruit from believe in the Emperor as a God even if they lose that belief on becoming Astartes.


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

in the fluff ogryn don't worship him as a god, and theirs bound to be skeptics


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Kale Hellas said:


> in the fluff ogryn don't worship him as a god, and theirs bound to be skeptics


Ogryns do whatever they're told to do so thats doesn't really matter, but even so the Imperial Cult is present on their planets in the form of any non-Ogryn personnel. There might be sceptics but if there was a planet overrun with them then that would be cause for the Imperium to view that world as hostile and re-take it with extreme prejudice (hell even a small 'cell' of sceptics would be rooted out and slaughtered by the Arbites et al if they were discovered).


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> I think you took the Harlies working with Inquisition example the wrong way. I know they dont represent Eldar, what I'm saying is they are the closest example of Xenos working with Humans in 40K. Also the only real example of a truce of any kind. Yet the Inquisition is all about KILL, KILL, KILL XENOS!!! So again WTF? Lame.....


The point is that the Harlequins have only 'worked with' a couple of Inquisitors. These Inquisitors didn't have permission to make such a truce, they acted on their own authority, just because the vast majority of the Imperium is Xenophobic and kills Xenos on sight this doesn't make 1 or 2 Inquisitors accepting information from Harlequins a hypocrisy.



Warlock in Training said:


> Also the Imperial Cult DOES NOT exist on every Planet. Some Planets in BL Books dont even know about the EMPRAH.


Ok, but the Ecclesiarchy does attempt to enforce its view as far and as wide as possible. Which is the vast majority of Imperial Worlds.

What BL books do you refer to out of curiosity?



Warlock in Training said:


> Oh and hes not a god. Hes a rotting Corpse, thanks to Horus:mrgreen:.


Ive already said, the term 'god' in 40k is totally ambiguous. Don't get mixed up with what we generally consider the monotheistic 'God' in the real world; an omnipotent creator deity. No one is suggesting the Emperor is Omnipotent, but that doesn't stop him being a 'god'.



Warlock in Training said:


> The point I was making on this Thread to is Warhammer 40K is stale as hell when it comes to its plot. Its all the same Kill, Kill, Kill, and a little Imperial Propaganda. However WFB Fluff is so rich with diversity, alliances, progressing characters. It sucks that the futur is boring. However the Soul Drinkers and Horus Heresy Books are awsome ofcourse. It seems after the HH everything bacame lame and half ass. Soul Drinkers provide a very cool outlook of a Chapter sick of the BS too .


Yes I understand your opinion 

I agree in the sense that the WHFB background is much more rich and diverse (apart from Archaon and the Storm of Chaos which was appauling!) but given the "there is only war" plot, it is justified given the analogy in my last post.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

What didn't you like about Archaon? I think hes awesome. And that he was beaten up by a huge ork is humbling to say the least. :grin:

By the way, whats this Soul Drinker series I keep hearing about? What it is about? Just in case its worth reading in the name of Chaos.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Soul Drinkers is THE MOST RICH 40K STORY in BL right now. In my Oppinion at least. Its about a second founding IF Chapter called the Soul Drinkers. In it they have huge misfortune in Mutation through the ranks, pissing off the Admech BAD, and a huge inter Chapter war with Khorn Worshipers. There labeled as Traitors and they go on the run while doing what they feel is right. They're a Chapters with strong Morals and self Identity. However the series ended at the moment with 1/10 of the Chapter thats left captured by the IF 1st Company led by that asshole Lysander. Even after Sarpeon tried to explain they were saving Rogal Dorns artifact from the Admech Lysander punk ass was bending over to please Mars at the cost of the IF honor and identity.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

You mean loyalist Lysander not listening to that traitorous scum Sarpeon?


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Wow. Sounds like they should turn to Chaos so they'd have friends. :grin:

But seriously, this looks like a series worth getting into, especially that it provokes such ambiguous responses.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The Soul Drinkers series is alright, not the best written set of books even by BL standards. For depth and 'richness' I'd suggest looking at the Eisenhorn/Ravenor and Last Chancer series' instead, rather than- 

Imperium bad, me no like Imperium but me no like Chaos either...me lonely 

There you go- all the Soul Drinkers books essentially in 1 sentence.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Alliances aren't limited to the official fluff. I've had to play apocalypse games before, and justifying the Necrons allying with anyone is a tough move fluffwise, but I managed to do it with a little creativity and some bold interpretation of the official fluff, which means I can make it work in any alliance. All it takes is a little creativity. Remember that 40k is as much a story as it is a game, and you are one of the authors in this grand galactic tome.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Imperium bad, me no like Imperium but me no like Chaos either...me lonely


Sounds like emo marines to me. And no, I'm definately not referring to the Dark Angels here.  I was worried if it was like that, thats why I asked. Smelled like 40K Robin Hood too a bit and while I like Robin Hood I don't think BL should have given him power armour and a bolter.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Sarpedon is the Man. Spider Man... Man Spider.... Eight Legged Marine... Thing. Anywho hes awsome. I wish that Psy Power "The Hell" could be brought life with a Sarpedon Model SC representing the Soul Drinkers. Oh well. BL HH is awsome reads, and I have yet to read any of Ragnars Blackmanes stuff, but theres alot of crap in 40K books. One with IG are the worst sometimes, espicially when they start speaking slang for things or enemy units and I have no Idea what there fighting against or doing to stop it half the time. Its so erratic with characters who you barely get to know die in 30 Pages.


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## Elenwe (Jun 27, 2012)

Warlock in Training said:


> Ok, heres my deal, I like 40k alot, however fluff wise I like WFB as I read more and more of there books. Lets face it the whole "There is only War" gets old fast, like a GTA game where all the missions is done all is left is running around AIMLESSLY killing people. It Gets old. Same with 40K Fluff. This whole Galaxy is at war and thats fine, but whu is it always IG/SM versus everyone? Why is there no Eldar/Tau (as much Fluff support it) team ups heard of? Why no books or Dexd entrys of SMs making alliances and holding those alliances with races that are willing. What happen to SQUATS having a Empire that held treatise with Imperials and work together as individual races? Sounds to me like you have not been reading the right fluff. I understand that this forums is called "Heresy" Online, but that is really no excuse for being ignorant of anything other than Chaos fluff.
> 
> One of the most important things to remember about 40k is that not everything you read in the codecies, or BL novels will match up. ALL of the individual army codex books are written (fluff) from the perspective of the Race to which the book relates.
> 
> ...


 This only highlights my earlier examples of extreme bias to the point of ignorance (not an insult, but by definition, a lack of knowledge). 

Despite all the logical reasons for alliances to or not to occur in the 40k Universe, if your argument is strictly based on the fluff, than you have shot yourself in the foot by aligning with Chaos as they are likely the ONLY faction in 40k that would NOT ally itself with another faction. Certainly Chaos warbands my unite under Abbadon for a Black Crusade, and Chaos Deamons frequent serve their masters or the sorcerers who summon them, but they are still a faction of "Chaos". Whether CSM will fight along Deamons is not a counter agrument for the fact that SM will not fight beside a Tau.

Bottom line is that allainces have not existed (until 6th Ed) in 40k for a myriad of reasons. THERE IS ONLY WAR is largely underminded if the statements becomes THERE IS ONLY WAR (unless x, y, & z get together). 

As for the whole "Grim Darkness" argument. I find myself in this camp. There are no "good guys" in 40k. Every race fights for it's survival. This is not something that has much room for alliances because all the races have so much to lose.

Regarding the Tau specifically: They have only existed in their current form for a scant few years... the VAST majority of the galaxy has never even interacted with them, let alone forged a meaningful alliance. 

That being said.... strange things happen in war, and 6th Edition was right to label alliances: Some are "alliances or desparation" such as the Ultramarines working with the Eldar to halt a Necron Incursion. It does happen... but quickly disolves... those same Tau broke the cease-fire and lost any hope of future relations in that region (and probably the Imperium at large).


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