# An Editorial to GW: Make Codexes Free - 40kOrigins



## FeedBot (Dec 20, 2006)

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A couple of comments I read over at Dakkadakka the other day got me thinking about how Games Workshop might want to change their business model. It didn’t take long for me to come to the conclusion that if they were smart GW should offer its rulebooks and codexes for free. Here is why:

*1) The Real Money Comes from Models:* People play GW games because of the models, not per se the rules. Anything that can encourage people to buy those models is a good thing. Hooking people on the game system and army rules encourages people to spend more on models. This is true for both the new player and the experienced veteran. The sticker-shock associated with miniature games is a serious limitation to greater sales. Not having to spend money on rules would be a great way to inspire people to buy more models. The newbie could read and get hooked while the veteran can read a codex for an army he doesn’t play and decide to branch out. It’s amazing the amount of players who never purchase codexes they don’t play. Once they see what the other army has to offer they might very well become tempted to purchase more models.

*2) Free Rules and Codexes Allow for Quick Updates:* No more having to wait years and years for necessary improvements to your codex ( Dark Angels ). All you have to do is make changes to the main file and then offer it as a PDF. This side-steps the problems and expense of adding updates to printed versions.

*3) Free Rules and Codexes Also Allow for Beta Testing:* Not sure if a rule works? Don’t have the time to runs the nigh endless games needed to play test? Why not get the gaming public to do your work for you? Beta test rules wouldn’t be official, but they would give people a chance to play potential ideas early. It also gives them the opportunity to not only give input to the process of design, but also what might sell the best.

*4) You Can Still Sell Printed Versions:* Even in the era of PDF copies many of us will still want a copy of the rules we can hold in our hands (and given the cost of ink and paper printing one out won’t be much cheaper anyway). You could even just provide the minimal basics for the free versions, leaving the fluff, pictures, and expanded explanations to the printed versions.

*5) It Makes for a Great Selling Point:* Get our rules for free! That right there is apt to catch the attention of any self-respecting gamer. I think it would also have the secondary effect of suggesting to people that Games Workshop both cares for its players and is ahead of the curve in terms of rules and salesmanship. Any brand is going to get stale if it always offers the same old stuff the same old way. Free rules and/or free codexes are a way to shake things up.

Admittedly, my assumptions may be wrong and codexes are just fantastic sellers that make model purchases pale by comparison, but I seriously doubt it. Certainly, offering free rules would require a leap of faith by GW, something they probably aren’t willing to do. 

If nothing else it would be nice to have all the rules in a virtual package. That way all I would need is a laptop or reader to have my rules wherever I go. Ah, well, one can dream…









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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

How long did it take 40KOrigins to join the bandwagon for this?


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## Da Red Paintjob Grot (May 6, 2008)

I would suggest they publisise them online but keep selling real copies for those who want a physical copy. either way, i'm in!


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

*far-fetched*

Gamesworkshop would have probably done this a long time ago but their financial advisers decided that it wouldn't work out in the long run. Same as Wizards of the Coast, they both must have decided that selling all of their rulebooks and supplements was too much of a nice thing they got going and they didn't want to fall behind each other. Don't forget, these two compete heavily against each other, so eventually if one of the other decides to do this, then more miniature gaming companies will be sure to follow.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

something wrong with your apostrophe button?

going free might be risk but lowering them would be great. if they were like $10 and maybe $20 for the big one, they'd still make profit off of them and probably more since people would be more willing to buy them instead of borrowing someone else's or something.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

maybe have a completely paper version for £1.50 or something ridiculous with only the special rules, army list, wargear and summary. might take up 20 pages max at current page size and font size. Make it an A5 booklet and reduce the font and then it would be affordable for both GW and us.


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

I agree with the OP completley.


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## hells_fury (Apr 17, 2008)

if they reduce the prices i for one would buy up the codexs of other armies for the fluff and getting to know them ^^ at the current price id rather spend my money on new minis ^^


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

it wouldn't be impossible for there online store to do them as pdf files (which are a pain in the ass to use anyway) for something like £2. it would stop the more internet savvy among us getting them via other channels.


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## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

This didn't work for Wizards but that is because their primary income isn't from model sales. I think the idea of free rules isn't just a good idea, but may eventually become the only idea. Technology is moving away from the printed word and into the digital word. Who needs a paper codex when everyone has an e-reader? When players can have every codex on a flash drive without the need for a laptop to read it, who's going to want to buy the physical books as opposed to new models? With how bad pirating is, it really won't matter much if GW makes the rules free or not once pretty much everyone has an e-reader. How is anyone going to know if your PDF file is pirated or genuine?

I also contend that GW will not really lose a dime this way, as the vast majority of players will just spend the codex money on more models anyway.


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

Warboss Dakka said:


> This didn't work for Wizards but that is because their primary income isn't from model sales. I think the idea of free rules isn't just a good idea, but may eventually become the only idea. Technology is moving away from the printed word and into the digital word. Who needs a paper codex when everyone has an e-reader? When players can have every codex on a flash drive without the need for a laptop to read it, who's going to want to buy the physical books as opposed to new models? With how bad pirating is, it really won't matter much if GW makes the rules free or not once pretty much everyone has an e-reader. How is anyone going to know if your PDF file is pirated or genuine?
> 
> I also contend that GW will not really lose a dime this way, as the vast majority of players will just spend the codex money on more models anyway.


i can safely say if i hadnt spent £30 on a rulebook and £15 on a codex then i would have a land raider and noise marines instead. :goodpost:


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## te3b0r (Mar 30, 2009)

I think that GW really needs to look at this to either a)make all codexs and Rule Books into pay for PDFs or b)make them free PDFs with only stat lines and rules for a codex and rules, stat lines, and just basic pics that help explain rules for the BRB. I know some folks still want hard copies of things and that is where the fluff and pretty pics can be and some folks like myself dont mind the e world. Over the past week I have bought 2 e-painting books which I think, are 1000x's time better than the paper copy of the Citadel How to Paint book and much more portable for me, but I am also a techno junkie that has access to read the e-books no matter where I am. While I realize that GW is a company out to make money even if you charged for the PDFs the over head cost would drop big time. Hell even make the PDFs on a private torrent tracker that can check to see if you really own them and thats only one server GW would have to run and let the rest of us share it out. I know this will never happen and I am living in a dream world but I really think paper versions of things just need to go the way of the dinosaur....


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with what yall are saying, but I'm one of those people who like having a book that really fleshes out my army beyond just paint schemes and rules. The codecies and army books have less personality than they used to (think 5th ed FB), but they're still a good read.

I wouldn't complain about a price drop though. I do agree that making the books pay-PDFs might cut down on the amount of "other-sourcing" your codecies.


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

I have to say I totally disagree with them doing that. If someone took the rules off the internet for free, printed them and tried to battle me with them I would show them the door, how would I know if they hadn't made alterations? And GW are struggling finicially apparently so let them keep expensive codexes, the margins on the models will be a lot tighter than those on the dexes.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Zondarian said:


> I have to say I totally disagree with them doing that. If someone took the rules off the internet for free, printed them and tried to battle me with them I would show them the door, how would I know if they hadn't made alterations? And GW are struggling finicially apparently so let them keep expensive codexes, the margins on the models will be a lot tighter than those on the dexes.



Damn...I was gonna say that...:laugh:

Seriously though, don't know about the US, but we don't pay VAT on books here in the UK - the price of a book is pure profit (excepting overheads of course) It will likely never happen for this reason.

Also, at tournaments, standardised printed versions are necessary in order to prevent cheating. It's not big, it's not clever, but it is a problem, and all Codexes being PDFs makes it easier, meaning more strict rules (not necessarily bad) and more Tournament staff (more overheads, replacing the advantage of not printing books)

Don't forget also, that making models wears moulds out, whereas Codexes can be endlessly reprinted form a single copy. As for beta-testing, GW did try it once (after a fashion) with the "Epistles from the Ivory Tower" trial Assualt Rules in 3rd that pretty much made the grade for the 4th Edition. Obviously though, the idea isn't going to be repeated, or it would have been by now.


@te3b0r - while that'd be fine and dandy if we had an infinite suppply of energy, and a way to prevent all knowledge then being lost if there were ever a nuclear war...we don't. Hard copies of data are still very much necessary.


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## Kitsunex (Mar 8, 2009)

until E-readers get bigger than paperback sized and will read the pdf format, i won't be jumping on that bandwagon.


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

the cheating issue is a bit moot in terms of altered codexs, if they were only a couple of quid each and say £15 for the lot then you can just check your own copy. 
codexs in a digital format are vital for playing 40k online but a hard copy is still golden for rl games.


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## Wolfgang_Molder (Mar 3, 2008)

I think that this a ridiculous idea, sorry but you guys don't seem to understand that although GW is a very customer friendly business it is still a business, they are going to try to get as much money as possible for as long as they can, why do you think the white dwarf is still $10? GW is trying desperately to hold onto their market by spreading out their price jumps over the paints codex's etc, if they made their codex's free you would have to pay like $120 for a land raider compared to $95, if you actually ask questions and listen to the answers you would know that GW hq had to make a very rough decision a year or two ago to put up their prices because the way things were going they weren't making enugh money, this with the financial crisis, made them pee their pants, making codex's free wouldn't solve any problems or make things easier for them, it would crush their business and possibly make them fold because they would have to find another item to put prices up on (those noise marines and land raider possibly?) because they would no longer get the money from the rulebooks. This would eventually mean that people would quit 40k ("I'm not paying THAT much for a Leman Russ!") and so they would lose out big time. sorry if this was a bit heavy or if i contradicted myself etc.


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

i dont think they should be "free" just a legitimate digital version available for somewhere in the £2-3 mark as it allows you to almost try before you by, i would never buy a codex just to see if i liked that army or for its fluff, i dont have £15 to spend every time i want to see what an army has to offer, i would get an illegitimate copy or read a friends ( so in that situation a £2-3 pure profit sale with potential for buying a hard copy becomes no sale at all)

somthing that hasnt been touched on here so far but...
are the codexs really that profitable in hard copy with all the extras?

it you consider each codex has storys that have to be written, models that have to be painted and art work that has to be made. these three things must add up to a lot of man hours and end up costing a fortune in labour even if you ignore the materials costs (paint, models, brushes, studio time, photography equipment, etc.)

edit- iv just been reminded of a well known online racing game, the provide a limited version that is absolutely free and works unlimited and fully online on there servers, atm they have several million people playing it. 

of those several million people a significant number (it escapes me atm) have bought the full version after playing the free version (or the hook) which translates into over 6million dollars of profit (i ran the math a while ago) from a one off program that will have cost no more that half a mill in development. 

its a well proven formula - get the customers playing and hooked for free then get them to pay when they want more.


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## Wolfgang_Molder (Mar 3, 2008)

Sorry, but releasing cheap pdf's would AS BAD as releasing free pdf's regardless of how much they are, because once a few people get the pdf's they would just be circulated around the net and every man and his dog would have it for nothing, bye bye gw, so therefore bye bye 40k, if you are unhappy about having to spend 15 pounds on a codex, find a different game to play, that is just part of 40k, and btw, GW does let people "try before they buy" i don't know about your store but at mine people are allowed to go, read the open copies of the dex's play games with the stores armies (they have one of each that is made and painted up for each new codex release). You don't need to own every codex to play 40k, and unless you are a tournament fanatic you dont even need to read about the other armies, build your list, paint up your guys, go to your store or gaming club, "punch in" and watch some heads roll. The only codexes that you can get as pdf's (legally) are the speed freaks, kroot merc's, blood angels and a few other random smaller armies and i think it should stay that way.

And as for the profitability (not sure if that is a word but i'm sure you will forgive me in time for it) all that time and effort they put into a codex is part of what makes people want to buy it, if it was just all black and white pages with the stat lines and rules etc, no one would buy it. they put the time and work in so people WILL buy it and regardless of how profitable it is, clearly what they have been doing has worked for quite a few years (i mean GW has only been going for what? well over 15 years, before i was born at the very least). If you look at the older dex's you will see, there are artworks and stories and bits and pieces of just random fluff here and there, and that is what makes the books all the more interesting, making you want to buy/play this army. I don't know, maybe it is different for chaos (I have never seen their appeal) but after 5 years with my space wolves i can still pick up the codex, sit down, and just read it, over and over and it is only 33 pages long!

Like i said it's a ridiculous idea...


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

"once a few people get the pdf's they would just be circulated around the net and every man and his dog would have it for nothing"

your saying thats not the case already for gamers that dont play in a store?

oh and just to point out 40k has been going since about '86, so when the first codexs were released a .pdf file didnt even exist.


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## te3b0r (Mar 30, 2009)

Yeah for those of you that don't already know take a look on any torrent site and you shall find many versions of codex and rulebooks free for download that have been pirated. I mean come on, you have to look at GW as hackers look at Microsoft and always want to screw them any chance they get. Yes while I get the point of model prices would go up with free codex and rules but come on GW will be raising their prices come June anyways and most of us by this stuff on ebay or a interweb site and not GW(at least I don't) and while yes this could effect the business model, they could have in the long run made this change knowing that the costing savings would be better for their stockholders. I mean come on how damn "green" is this world getting?


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## te3b0r (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> @te3b0r - while that'd be fine and dandy if we had an infinite suppply of energy, and a way to prevent all knowledge then being lost if there were ever a nuclear war...we don't. Hard copies of data are still very much necessary.



While this is a valid point wouldn't hard copies, humans, and everything else besides cockroaches and twinkies die??????


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I think that they should be pdf style and make them "free" that way and allow print-offs in store but charge a fee of say $5. In response to the illegal ones already out there you may have them but you can't use them in official tournaments


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## Wolfgang_Molder (Mar 3, 2008)

sorry, you can say what you want but i know what i said is valid and like i said, if you want free rulebooks go play another game because buying codex's and the like is just one thing you need to stop whining about and accept, "wah wah we want free codexes" go to a macca's and ask for a free cheeseburger or go to a Guess shop and ask for free jeans, and see what happens gw is exactly the same they'll give you nothing, and they have a reason, and to ask something like that from a company that gives you so much is just insulting. 

And about all the pdf's out there already, if you truly love the game and the hobby and want it to continue, then buy the books cheapskates


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

TheKingElessar said:


> Also, at tournaments, standardised printed versions are necessary in order to prevent cheating. It's not big, it's not clever, but it is a problem, and all Codexes being PDFs makes it easier, meaning morehttp://www.heresy-online.net/forums/images/smilies/grin.gif strict rules (not necessarily bad) and more Tournament staff (more overheads, replacing the advantage of not printing books)


Even better idea, why don't Games Workshop come up with their own brand of E-Reader, and make it tinker proof? It would cost, £60 ish, but it includes all the codices and army books, including the BRB, FAQ's, and all other books relating to the rules - Wargear, etc. It doesn't need to include Fluff, just pure and simple rules for those who want to use it in the game.

Include a search function, and include all instances where it refers to another section a link or pop up box (similar to what Heresy has for its dictionary) defining that rule.

To stop tampering, just have it connect to a Wireless network (and install all GW shops with one - they already have a computer booth in some of them), and then should there be an update needed, it will download automatically, and then you will find in the FAQ section all the updates made, and the Codex will be fully updated.

Also, those comments are uneeded, Molder.

I wouldn't mind so much, if Games Workshop didn't charge me £15+ for everybook I buy. I can understand Wizards having to sell books to make the money. Their basis is on background, and doesn't need miniatures to play a game.

However, Games Workshop's hobby core are the miniatures, and make up the majority of the sales. However, if you're a gamer, you need to shell out (by GW's Prices) £40 for the Rulebook, and £15 for your Codex. That's £55, and you've not bought a single model or paint. If you want to be able to battle a bit more competitively, buying your opponents codex is an additional cost on top of that.

If you play Fantasy as well, AND Lord of the Rings, it soon mounts up. When you have all the books relating to the two major game systems, like myself, I've spent, about £450 on books, and not bought one model with that money. That's Fucking Disgusting, if you ask me.


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

It may be "disgusting", but I LIKE having a properly bound copy of the rules for whatever army I'm currently playing, as well as usually having a copy of the opponent's codex at home for "homework and studying" after the battle. Perhaps it's my "advanced age", but having a "real" book in one's hands is SO much more satifying than peering at some e-book or IPhone; How many of us have wiled away an afternoon/evening reading the fluff of an army? (Rather sad to picture sombody curled up on the couch "reading" a codex on a cellphone...) Or spent hours planning out that "perfect" army with *gasp* pencil and paper?

I LIKE the current system; Codexes available at a good cost (Consider the number of times you use the codex vs. the price, as compared to a novel you might read once or twice then it sits on your shelf) with optional/additional rules, FAQs, and whatnot available online on the GW site; *If it ain't broke, don't fix it.*


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Wolfgang_Molder said:


> sorry, you can say what you want but i know what i said is valid and like i said, if you want free rulebooks go play another game because buying codex's and the like is just one thing you need to stop whining about and accept, "wah wah we want free codexes" go to a macca's and ask for a free cheeseburger or go to a Guess shop and ask for free jeans, and see what happens gw is exactly the same they'll give you nothing, and they have a reason, and to ask something like that from a company that gives you so much is just insulting.
> 
> And about all the pdf's out there already, if you truly love the game and the hobby and want it to continue, then buy the books cheapskates


I personnally agree about the smaller books that are bound or pay for PDF's For the simple sake of faster rule book updates. I think the free downloads are not a horrid idea either. Your arguement is mute and borderline flaming on the simple fact that GW is a multifacet business that does not rely on only book sells for profit. They could offer the rule books free as a download, and then offer a bound book much like they have now. Their sales would go down some but overall it would allow them to update the rules faster.



Deneris said:


> It may be "disgusting", but I LIKE having a properly bound copy of the rules for whatever army I'm currently playing, as well as usually having a copy of the opponent's codex at home for "homework and studying" after the battle. Perhaps it's my "advanced age", but having a "real" book in one's hands is SO much more satifying than peering at some e-book or IPhone; How many of us have wiled away an afternoon/evening reading the fluff of an army? (Rather sad to picture sombody curled up on the couch "reading" a codex on a cellphone...) Or spent hours planning out that "perfect" army with *gasp* pencil and paper?
> 
> I LIKE the current system; Codexes available at a good cost (Consider the number of times you use the codex vs. the price, as compared to a novel you might read once or twice then it sits on your shelf) with optional/additional rules, FAQs, and whatnot available online on the GW site; *If it ain't broke, don't fix it.*


I do not think the codexes are a good price, I with they would go back to the smaller $15 codexes or shrink them a bit more and cut them to 10. I truely do not care about the arguement that they have oh so much more stuff in them, as all I really care about is the core rules. I buy Black Library for the fluff, not the rule books.


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## Wolfgang_Molder (Mar 3, 2008)

Rather than try to disprove my argument or say it is mute, listen to what i am saying, If they made the dex's free or cheaper, they would have to put prices up on other things because they HAVE been putting the prices up on paints and books and the like so your precious models don't go up, so if they lost the scapegoat of the codex's (which they can put up without any worry of less business because people need and do actually WANT to own) other things would go up, i personally would get p'd off if i had to pay $80 for a Leman Russ and $30 for a blister, but if they take the codex's out that is what will inevitably happen


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

would it though? show me margins and figures to back the argument up. 

iv already provided a clear business case that shows providing a limited free product can generate sales of a more advanced product. 
i would never have payed $16 dollars for quite a basic game otherwise. 

a far better thing to do that rasing the price of the stuff would be to charge 50p an hour for the gaming tables. wont stop people using them as 50p an hour is fair for using a table and ready made terrain. 
pool costs a damn sight more than that and im happy to go and pay for that.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I agree with AoF, money spent on Dex's could be spent on models instead. I dislike the huge codexes that add nothing gamewise but cost 50% more.


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## Wolfgang_Molder (Mar 3, 2008)

Then you CLEARLY are playing the wrong game my friend


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## nightfish (Feb 16, 2009)

A good amount of fluff shows the richness of the game.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Wolfgang_Molder said:


> Rather than try to disprove my argument or say it is mute, listen to what i am saying, If they made the dex's free or cheaper, they would have to put prices up on other things because they HAVE been putting the prices up on paints and books and the like so your precious models don't go up, so if they lost the scapegoat of the codex's (which they can put up without any worry of less business because people need and do actually WANT to own) other things would go up, i personally would get p'd off if i had to pay $80 for a Leman Russ and $30 for a blister, but if they take the codex's out that is what will inevitably happen


Instead of trying to tell US that WE are wrong, listen to what WE are saying.

Putting the prices of Books and Paints so models don't go up? I'd like to live where you live - the models have gone up £3 a blister in as many years.

Games Workshop have themselves a Niche - pretty much a monopoly. Ask a wargamer, any wargamer, and I'd say 90% of them would mention that they know of Games Workshop - that's advertising and outperforming businesses for you.

What they are currently doing is Price Fixing, because they own the wargaming market. They out price those who offer cheaper versions of what they sell - check out sites such as bits and kits - how can they afford to sell products for half as much as what it costs GW to sell? Because GW are fixing prices.

They do the same thing with books, and they are penalising those who wish to play the game - you've completely ignored the fact that I've spent over £400 on books so I know what I'm up against, and how to counter certain things and play competitively, and I've not yet even bought a model.

Now Games Workshop used to offer a Proper Bitz section, where you could buy each sprue seperately. Now, however, you have to buy a box. They said they lost money - bull shite. They lost profit, not money. They could bring that back, strange as it seems, and make more money. I know people who put off buying certain things, because they can't just order what they want, when they want - they have to buy the whole shebang - hence why bits and kits are such a well known business, as they offer something GW can't, or chooses not to.

Now, look at the PDF's you get off the web - with the free updates, and FAQ's released, then you get something you can take to any competition, AND would reduce the amount of stuff that's floating around the internet such as Torrents for Codexes, etc.

How the fuck you managed to pick $30 for a blister out the air, I don't know. I'll tell you what, I'll take your points seriously when you make some serious comments.


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## te3b0r (Mar 30, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Instead of trying to tell US that WE are wrong, listen to what WE are saying.
> 
> Putting the prices of Books and Paints so models don't go up? I'd like to live where you live - the models have gone up £3 a blister in as many years.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

did i also imagine reading something about the stopping trade discount to sellers that break kits and sell as bits?


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

I poersoanlly am quite happy spending £15 on a codex, they are well made and interesting to read. And despite what Djinn says a codex without the fluff would be shite. The codexes are where most gamers get their core knowledge of the background of the game, and few gamers would keep playing without the background. And yes they could give you the codexes online for free and watch a portion of their profits fly out the window, but they will never do that. If you got the free codex maybe 50% of the people would then take the money to GW and spend it in the shop, the rest would buy the exact smae modles they were going to and spend the £15 on something else. GW would lose money. And even if every gamer then went to GW with their £15 extra in their pockets and spend that £15 on models instead of codexes, guess what? They aren't making as much money, models cost a lot to make and package, codexes are cheap, they don't even get VAT on them. They cost a lot less to make than the models and they are esential to play the game, why would they start giving away the codexes?


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## Wolfgang_Molder (Mar 3, 2008)

$30 dollars for a blister is the F rank or higher in my store, i don't know if they do it the same everywhere but basically the prices for blisters go from A ($13 for a small model like a mounted daemonette , not sure if those are still avaliable) to I ($44 for an avatar or killa kan)


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Angels Of Flame said:


> would it though? show me margins and figures to back the argument up.
> 
> iv already provided a clear business case that shows providing a limited free product can generate sales of a more advanced product.
> i would never have payed $16 dollars for quite a basic game otherwise.
> ...


GW wouldn't ever want to do that, because us playing in the store the best free advertising they could ever get - you obviously having a good time with some friends - better go in and see what you're doing there...etc.

@te3b0r - actually, that's not true - cockroaches can't survive a nuclear blast any better than we, and their radiation tolerance isn't anywhere near high enough either. Pretty much only bactera would survive - although I was more assuming an end to all current civilization, not all life :wink:

I stil am of the opinion that the profit margin on Codexes is too high to viably make them ever free...although that £60 e-reader with all the rulebooks and a search sounds awesome...


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

This is something I've been saying for a while.

I can see one problem, in that if rules were free they could decrease even the pitiful levels of support they currently provide. The idea of regularly updated rules sounds great, so that you would know what was happening if you saw a land raider or similar. Trouble is, we currently have a situation where it takes them about a year to even produce a crappy FAQ which they didn't even write themselves.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I agree with the above they need 2 memebers of Staff dedicated to going through codexs -PROOF READING THEM WELL and then after this get rid of all spelling mistakes and clear up any strangely worded paragraphs and then put them on the shelf for sale, when q's come up these guys can then go straight to the dex and start updating the Pdf FAQ's it takes about 5 minutes to write in the question and then put answer: yes/no explanation - save - web page - paste in updated link with date updated - done!


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## Eugene (Oct 27, 2008)

Yep, agreed, codexs cost as much as whole squads of troops for me.. Wish they were free.


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

And when you get the free codexes you want then you will all start complaining about the 'unexpected and unfair rise in model costs.' They make you pay because it optimises their profits. It is as simple as that.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Blue Liger said:


> I agree with the above they need 2 memebers of Staff dedicated to going through codexs -PROOF READING THEM WELL and then after this get rid of all spelling mistakes and clear up any strangely worded paragraphs and then put them on the shelf for sale, when q's come up these guys can then go straight to the dex and start updating the Pdf FAQ's it takes about 5 minutes to write in the question and then put answer: yes/no explanation - save - web page - paste in updated link with date updated - done!


I borrowed a friend's Lizardmen book, because I'm learning Fantasy, and I couldn't believe how many typos I spotted :shok:


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## lostonexxx (May 15, 2009)

I want the GW e-reader thingy!!!!
That is quite possibly the best idea in the thread so far!

On a side note, I would like to see them selling the small rulebook from AoBR in store, seperately to the boxset. That would be purely for enticing in new players.
As for the BRB, I was damn near first in line to get that bad boy on release day, and it was money well spent. I have two of the AoBR books lying around here, and have only checked one once to see if it did indeed contain all the core rules. They would make a good entry level book for £5-£10 for noobies who wanted to avoid spending on AoBR. Especially if you were already attracted to a particular army not included in the set.

I for one, would vote on a return to the 2nd edition style of expansion. You must remember good old DARK MILLENIUM. Which was a must have expensive expansion just to use psychic powers etc. A similar theme perhaps, with vehicle and character stat cards with special rules on the back etc. Thereby giving you access to the need to knows for all enemies without the fluff and pretty books. Plus stat cards were damned handy to keep by the gaming table, and if memory serves, used to fly really well when thrown in a temper :lol:
Yep, I would definitely splurge some cash on a stat card expansion as oppose to a multitude of codexes. Cheap and practical. They could fluff it out with deployment markers, turn counters and goodness knows what other trick goodies. Plus they could return to giving away free stat cards in white dwarf when new vehicles or characters are released. Thereby creating extra revenue from that angle. People will also chase up back issues to get the card/s they missed previously.

Does anyone even remember how warp cards worked?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I still own a DM set, in fact I reread the rulebook just a month or so ago, and try to reread the pure win of the 2nd Ed Wargear Book once a year.

Much as I loved Dark Millenium though, the way in which Cityfight/Cities of Death and Planetstrike are done is more acceptable to me...DM was essentially a compulsory purchase for serious players, but CoD and PS are entirely optional...GW stepping away from the old Dark Millenium/Warhammer Magic/new Datafaxes(/Warhammer Quest Dungeons) in WD system is a good thing, overall. IMO.

Anyone who disagrees can see how they like life inside my Force Dome! Any attempt to retroactively Nullify will be met with a Daemonic Attack! :laugh:


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

TKE the bigg mistakes are also in the Ork Codex - the bike dakka gun has 2 different profiles one S4 Assault 4 the other S5 Assault 3, another is the fact that DeffKpptas say they have the Waaagh rule everyone knows bikes/jetbikes cannot fleet/run and in the BRB in the army summary the wave serpant of the eldar has a front armour value of 2


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## lostonexxx (May 15, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> I still own a DM set, in fact I reread the rulebook just a month or so ago, and try to reread the pure win of the 2nd Ed Wargear Book once a year.
> 
> Much as I loved Dark Millenium though, the way in which Cityfight/Cities of Death and Planetstrike are done is more acceptable to me...DM was essentially a compulsory purchase for serious players, but CoD and PS are entirely optional...GW stepping away from the old Dark Millenium/Warhammer Magic/new Datafaxes(/Warhammer Quest Dungeons) in WD system is a good thing, overall. IMO.
> 
> Anyone who disagrees can see how they like life inside my Force Dome! Any attempt to retroactively Nullify will be met with a Daemonic Attack! :laugh:


I meant just a boxset with stat cards for all the other armies. So it wouldnt be a compulsory purchase. But a very good option for people who wanted all the enemy stats to hand. I would gladly pay for that!


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Blue Liger said:


> TKE the bigg mistakes are also in the Ork Codex - the bike dakka gun has 2 different profiles one S4 Assault 4 the other S5 Assault 3, another is the fact that DeffKpptas say they have the Waaagh rule everyone knows bikes/jetbikes cannot fleet/run and in the BRB in the army summary the wave serpant of the eldar has a front armour value of 2


Big Mek Runtherds are incorrectly listed as having 2 Wounds, Biker nobs don't etc...I know :laugh: had to write in my Codex to fix them! The Lizardmen book was even worse though, and it was mostly spelling errors. Hadn't noticed the Wave Serpent AV2 though, gonna have to look for that! :clapping: Go on GW!



lostonexxx said:


> I meant just a boxset with stat cards for all the other armies. So it wouldnt be a compulsory purchase. But a very good option for people who wanted all the enemy stats to hand. I would gladly pay for that!


 The only thing is, it _would_ be compulsory, as who are 'all the other armies'? The box would have to end up including stats for everyone, or else there would be fifteen or whatever different versions of the box, and if you wanted to play another army you'd still need to get a Codex, making part of the box redundant, just like it would be when a new Codex came out. I appreciate what you mean, but I'm afraid it simply wouldn't work unless all the Codexes were amalgamated into one supplement ('Armies of the 41st Millenium'?) and this leaves no room for fluff, and costs at least £30 (probably more like 50) meaning new players are expected to shell out on £60 of books before they even get an army. Not a sensible business plan. :grin:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i like the codex's as they are, they are a nice size, loads of interesting info and back ground, i think a digital self print pdf version of the codex and the rules would just cheapen the whole game. at the price they are now people look after them, if they were free you would be using them as coasters and GW would be full of people with scratty bits of rule book and codexs .. no thanks.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Zondarian said:


> I have to say I totally disagree with them doing that. If someone took the rules off the internet for free, printed them and tried to battle me with them I would show them the door, how would I know if they hadn't made alterations? And GW are struggling finicially apparently so let them keep expensive codexes, the margins on the models will be a lot tighter than those on the dexes.





Wolfgang_Molder said:


> I think that this a ridiculous idea, sorry but you guys don't seem to understand that although GW is a very customer friendly business it is still a business


I'm in total agreement. What a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that GW is first and foremost a business, one listed on the stock market whose priority will always be ensuring healthy profit margins. Don't believe me read the latest White Dwarf, out of 300 managerial candidates, only 20 were picked. Remaining profitable and competitive will always remain more important than the hobby itself.

Also a Codex is more than just a rulebook, it's a sourcepoint for inspiration about the shape and background of your army. I own a fair number of the older codices and compared to the modern ones they are just rules and the odd bit of background, which inevitably fair badly in comparison. Why in an era where GW are willing to give us tons of awe-inspiring background would anyone won't to go back to that?



Warboss Dakka said:


> With how bad pirating is, it really won't matter much if GW makes the rules free or not once pretty much everyone has an e-reader. How is anyone going to know if your PDF file is pirated or genuine?
> 
> I also contend that GW will not really lose a dime this way, as the vast majority of players will just spend the codex money on more models anyway.


Pirating costs plenty of companies lots of money every year, which is why there's such determination to eliminate it, and why there's such an effort to make sure people know the difference between copies and the real thing. Anyone willing to resort to that deserves whatever punishment comes there way.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

considering that most of the codexs are available online via piracy would making them free really change much? Lowering the price might get more people to pay for them. I personally like having the hard cover book, I like the artwork and the fluff but I wouldn't argue if they dropped the price a bit.


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

YEs it would make a huge difference. If you walk into a GW shop with a peice of paper codex now, you will be banned, or thrown out probably. If they are free, you have no reason to buy the dex. And more importantly is the psychological factor, most 40k gamers know that there are illegal PDF versions of the dexes online, all that stops them from using them is because it is 'wrong'. If they are legal people can save their money while doing nothing wrong. It will never be a good idea to give them away free.


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

Zondarian said:


> YEs it would make a huge difference. If you walk into a GW shop with a peice of paper codex now, you will be banned, or thrown out probably. If they are free, you have no reason to buy the dex. And more importantly is the psychological factor, most 40k gamers know that there are illegal PDF versions of the dexes online, all that stops them from using them is because it is 'wrong'. If they are legal people can save their money while doing nothing wrong. It will never be a good idea to give them away free.


2 words: Blood Angels.

A legal PDF Codex.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Zondarian said:


> YEs it would make a huge difference. If you walk into a GW shop with a peice of paper codex now, you will be banned, or thrown out probably. If they are free, you have no reason to buy the dex. And more importantly is the psychological factor, most 40k gamers know that there are illegal PDF versions of the dexes online, all that stops them from using them is because it is 'wrong'. If they are legal people can save their money while doing nothing wrong. It will never be a good idea to give them away free.


You will not get banned for walking into a GW shop with a piece of paper codex. I do it all the time when I'm in Vancouver. I prefer to keep my codex's in good condition so I make a paper copy of it which I use when I am out to play. No one has raised any concern yet or even asked me about the paper copy. 

I assume it would be just as easy for someone who doesnt own the actual codex's to do something very similar.


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

Really? Well if you were to walk into any near were I love they will boot you for using illegal codexes. On the rare chance they don't boot you know one will play against you. They give the Blood Angels away free because not enough people actually want the dex. By giving that one away free they are losing out on a bit of money, while potentially getting new people to the game, and potentially convince current players to build a new army.


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## skullkandy (May 27, 2009)

This is called the "google financial model"

And just like when google did it every other company including a statement from bill gates proclaimed "google are idiots and this financial model isn't going to work at all, they are going to fall on their faces and be a joke because this doesn't include enough ways to generate income." and look what happened with that.

The problem is companies are run by their marketing departments who are some of the most shortsighted people on the planet. If you "can" charge for something you "should" charge for it is their way of thinking. Things like customer loyalty don't have an easily identifiable dollar amount that you can put into a spread sheet so it scares the crap out of them.

But if you take a long term approach to profit by not squeezing little tiny bits of extra money every single place you can up front from your customer base you end up being able to generate more income in the long term by increased customer base, less churn, and a more flexible plan that can be altered on the fly and produced for less cost.


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