# Help me decide my next purchase! SM



## rsowell (Jul 20, 2009)

I like running cheesy list and take advantage of any special/strong rules to there fullest. I'm very friendly and will change my list for anyone that wants to scenario etc at my store, but I enjoy playing to win. Currently I run Vulkan; I bought the beautiful model and enjoy the way he bolsters my army.

That being said I'm looking to make my options cheesier!

I currently have....
2 vindicators
3 tac squads with squirrel's setup
sniper scouts
1 pred with las cannon turret and magnetized sponsons
assault termies
LRC
3 dreadnaughts(sp?)

What would you suggest to further bolster a Vulkan list? Land speeders with MM/HF? Sterngaurd? Maybe another vindicator? Help me spend my money!


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

Warhound titan. or a 1kg block of cheese lol


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Not sure but assault marines ore sternguard never go amiss
i fear them at least


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

Well at least you admit you are a cheesebeard...:angry::ireful2:unish:

Anyway...

This might help. Click here.

Aside from that, drop pods for your dreadnoughts if you don't aleady have them or land speeder storm with 4 ccw armed scouts and a sergeant with a combi flamer and a power fist. First turn assault and give the speeder the heavy flamer.

Hope this helps.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

I think a Devastator squad with 4 Multi-Meltas in a Drop Pod is a pretty nifty option.
Drop them down, split if needed, blow the fuck out of a few vehicles.

Sure sure, they won't get to shoot on the turn they drop, but either they'll obliterate them with the right guns (in which case you'd choose to drop them in cover), or you'll take HALF their army's firepower, dropping little by little as everything else gets another turn to advance.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Well you can stop saying Cheese for one thing... Always conjures up images whiny players in my head.

I'd go with the Land Speeder options, consider the typhoon as well.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Thunder Cannon. 

When you absolutely positivly gotta kill every mother lovin heretic in the room, accept no substitute.


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## matty570 (Jun 14, 2007)

Ironclad dreads with hf and meltas. Lovely models and work damn well with Vulkan.


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## rsowell (Jul 20, 2009)

Concrete Hero said:


> Well you can stop saying Cheese for one thing...


Cheese

Thanks for the help guys


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Cheese is what people who can't take competitive list making scream to justify their points.

Drop the Sniper Scouts, grab the 5 man CCW squad in HF Land Speeder Storm (Sarge w/ Combi-Melta+Powerfist), they rock. Get 'pods for your 'noughts, make sure they have MM+HF set-up, make sure your pred has no sponsons attached to it, consider changin your Land Raider type.

Also, spell my name right! Haha


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## jaq draco's (Aug 15, 2009)

land speeders and multi meltas rule m8


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Sqwerlpunk said:


> grab the 5 man CCW squad in HF Land Speeder Storm (Sarge w/ Combi-Melta+Powerfist), they rock.


I actually like to take them with this:

Sergeant with Meltabombs (duh), Plasma pistol, Power sword.
3x Shotgun guys.
1x Bolt pistol and CCW guy.
Storm with heavy flamer.

Trying to take good advantage of the freakout grenades from the Storm.
Shotguns because they hit on 4+, and with a WS of 3, they're unlikely to hit on a 3+ in melee, also because they effectively strike at initiative 11.


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## rsowell (Jul 20, 2009)

Sqwerlpunk said:


> Cheese is what people who can't take competitive list making scream to justify their points.
> 
> Drop the Sniper Scouts, grab the 5 man CCW squad in HF Land Speeder Storm (Sarge w/ Combi-Melta+Powerfist), they rock. Get 'pods for your 'noughts, make sure they have MM+HF set-up, make sure your pred has no sponsons attached to it, consider changin your Land Raider type.
> 
> Also, spell my name right! Haha


I like this. Couple questions though. Other than vehicle killers, do the CCW scouts really help? They seem lacklustre in CC. I ask this because you mention specifically CCW versions.

Also is it worth running a pred with just the turret? Couldn't I just save those points for another vindi or something? Seems like a lot of points for one gun, even if it is mobile.

Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl Sqwerl


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

rsowell said:


> I like this. Couple questions though. Other than vehicle killers, do the CCW scouts really help? They seem lacklustre in CC. I ask this because you mention specifically CCW versions.


Gotta keep in mind the Cerberus Launchers from the Land Speeder Storm.
-2 Ld to the enemy if a scout squad dismounts and then wins combat.
Combined with the heavy Flamer, you can make some pretty nasty squads break, and then keep on their heels so they can't regroup.


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

insted of taking the pred, why not just take a TL las Razorback? same deal, except you get 6 guys worth of transport


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

The army you have already is pretty nice. Suggestions so far have been good I'd say.

Scouts in a storm provide a very valuable way to charge things on turn one. It can easily be a game changing event if you can take out tanks or transports before they do anything, and these guys do it pretty reliably. I go with ccws because it means they get 12 attacks on the charge, plus the power fist, and that's usually more than enough to mess up most shooty squads. You obviously aren't going to do much good against zerkers, so go elsewhere.

I often run Lysander or Pedro. If the scouts are stubborn then they are even better, because you can tar pit stuff with them for a turn or two. That can be significant.

The other thing I'd suggest would be land speeder typhoons. It's true that the multi-melta ones would combo nicely with vulcan but I much prefer typhoons because of their range. You already have tons of close ranged firepower but very little above 24". Rather like the scouts in the storm, these guys are able to knock out enemy targets right at the start of the game, though they do so without needing to charge right into the enemy's guns.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Someguy said:


> TI go with ccws because it means they get 12 attacks on the charge, plus the power fist, and that's usually more than enough to mess up most shooty squads.


That's fair enough, and a good point - you want to cause maximum morale damage.
But Shotguns give you an extra shot before charging, which increases your chance of surviving as there's fewer attacks back.
I think a balance is good, 2/2 or 1/3, with the Sarge with his own stuff.


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Well, Winterous, I have a couple of reasons to be taking CCWs over Shottys.

You have an extremely mobile Scouting/Outflanking model that will allow for wicked charges from huge ranges. You can very easily pick your targets. So, given this, I'm not going to be charging any squad that is even slightly competent in assault, I will be going after very shooty squads, or vehicles, more likely vehicles. Against shooty squads, they aren't going to do much/any damage before you swing, that's why you chose them to charge. Against vehicles, you are trying to maximize your possible number of S4 hits on a moving target with rear 10 armor. If it's sitting still, krak his ass of course.

You already have 2x Vindicators+Land Raider rsowell, that's heaps a plenty. The Predator fills the very large gap in your list (and many, many lists out there today, particularly Vulkan lists) in giving you some long-range, reliable firepower. He will serve as your transport hunter, dishing out a nearly guaranteed S9 hit, whilst remaining _completely mobile_, which is important. The ability to always move 6" in your phase can be a life saver, and keeps your list much faster and mobile, and hard to reach. Plus, it's much cheaper, those sponsons cost a fuck ton.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Personally, I think a typhoon is just way better than a predator with a lascannon turret. Ok, no real effect on armour 14, but the lascannon isn't much use there either and you have all sorts of vindicators and meltas for that. The missile launchers are considerably better against soft armour though, such as that found on transports. You go faster too. Most importantly, the ability to rain frag missiles on a squad of guys, and hit it with the heavy bolter, is something the predator can't even begin to do.

Shotguns might be the last thing I'd give scouts (actually no, bolters are the last thing I'd give them). If you shoot a squad then quite often they will break and run off, leaving you screwed. This is especially annoying if you wanted to multi-charge.

The extra shot from the shotgun is equal to the attack in cc, but since I'm very often not going to fire at all due to the risk of breaking the target, I'd much sooner have the attack. The attack in cc also works in my opponent's turn, during his cc phase, while I don't get to shoot the gun again until my turn comes around again (which, for a unit of 5 scouts in the enemy deployment zone, it frequently does not).

I quite often have my squad charge a tank and an enemy unit. The sergeant takes his power fist to the tank while the scouts fight the enemy infantry. With any luck, the enemy unit won't run off and I won't be shot, though the cerberus thingy is not so helpful here. Even so it's pretty common to kill a tank and a squad if you do this. If you are able to get to a significant enough target, this is well worth the exchange.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

I guess, but the Shotguns look so coooooooool >_<
I dunno, I just really like them, and the whole point of the squad is to hit hard and then bugger off, but well, I dunno.


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Typhoons do have much better firepower, Someguy, I guess I just like packing as much formidable armor into my list as possible. Predators are no lightweights in vehicle armor, even though mine are never a real high priority target.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Sqwerlpunk said:


> Typhoons do have much better firepower, Someguy, I guess I just like packing as much formidable armor into my list as possible. Predators are no lightweights in vehicle armor, even though mine are never a real high priority target.


Yeah, that's it really.
Predator with TL LC = good anti-armour, good armour itself.
Land Speeder Typhoon = fast general use.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hmm I'm going to be different and suggest giving yourself another Terminator Squad. Assault Termis are great but I personnaly prefer a more balanced squad since I allways have trouble with Terminators not being able to pull off a sweeping advance. The little buggers allways run away from me >_<. Thankfully with standard termis this isn't a problem as I can gun them down.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Coder59 said:


> Hmm I'm going to be different and suggest giving yourself another Terminator Squad. Assault Termis are great but I personnaly prefer a more balanced squad since I allways have trouble with Terminators not being able to pull off a sweeping advance. The little buggers allways run away from me >_<. Thankfully with standard termis this isn't a problem as I can gun them down.


Unless you simply phrased this badly, then you should read the Terminator Armour rules.
Terminators can't sweeping advance, at all.
I just interpreted what you said as "I can never manage to successfully sweep enemies with Terminators."


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Hmm, it's rather ambiguous, although given the rules, he could actually be stating in a round-a-bout way that it's annoying his Termis can't sweep. Personally, I don't want to draw a conclusion on his statement, yet.


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## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

5 man scout squads with power fists do not rock... The suck, actually. I could only hope that an opponent of mine decides to bring such a squad in a competitive game.

I'd have to say that you should quit saying 'cheese' off of the basis that this army really isn't cheesy. Actually, there isn't a lot you can do in the new dex to constitute extreme cheesism. Triple vindies, max TH/SS termies, etc, etc... these can be very nasty set ups, but not really cheesy.


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

maniclurker, do you happen to have vassal? we need to have a game between us, just to get all this aggression towards ideas out.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I'd honestly have to say that my scouts in their storm have been one of my most consistent units. In three recent tournaments (total of 12 games) they only once failed to kill stuff worth more than they were, when they outflanked and didn't turn up until turn 5 on the wrong side of the board. Better yet, they kill very high priority targets that would otherwise cause me all kinds of trouble.

They are supremely effective against IG in particular. They would be great against eldar if the eldar actually deployed, which of course they do not. Even against orks and nids they have been doing good things. There is always an enemy unit that doesn't want to be hit by a power fist, and if it isn't deployed yet then you can outflank.

Possibly their best game was against a Tau guy with 9 broadsides in spearhead deployment, so he was miles away. I was going second so I though about outflanking with the storm, but decided to have them scout right at the Tau to draw their fire away from my other tanks a bit. I stole initiative and they killed 3 of the broadsides right away. Thanks to that, a very difficult game turned into a very easy one.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Well, my Eldar deploy, but I wouldn't fear Scouts, Fist or no. Either way, I'm not getting into that issue. Rather, I'd like to contest the earlier "switch the LRC out for a better LR" nonsense. LRC is the best. Period. 

I seriously recommend following Someguy's advice and getting something thatcan pop Transports et al from 24+ inches away...personally it'd be Dakka Preds, but Typhoons are pretty good - only thing being that in a Vulkan list MM/HF are so much more deadly, especially if you follow Sqwerl's advice and overlook the Tac MM. In that case they almost become a necessity, really.

As for Las turrets and Sponsons on Predators?? Never. They're just not cost-effective, either compared to the Dakka Predator, or compared to a Melta weapon. I postulated a few months ago that Lascannons would be more common in SM armies, due primarily to the cheapness of the Chimera and Valk...while Las usage has arguably gone up, it's mostly by the IG players, who get few MMs. While the Nid Dex in Spring may see a decline in ML use again (hopefully, c'mon!) that remains to be seen. Overall though, Predators aren't the place you should be looking for Lascannon support in a SM army, as it's the most expensive useful platform for it. (No, Devastators are terrible, thanks.)

/rant.


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

I don't buy Lascannon Preds solely for their firepower, TKE 

I buy Lascannon Preds (and only the turret! no sponsons!) for mobile AV13 that will VERY reliably threaten my opponent's Transports (a major concern almost always), thus drawing fire by turn 2 and on pretty reliably, and away from my other, more dangerous units. Also, it tends to pop transports.

Also, Lascannons cost too damn much for SM in 5th edition. I think it's because GW had a knee-jerk reaction to their massed use in 4th, and wanted to even out the weapon use in 5th edition (then changed vehicle rules so Lascannons are sub-par compared to Melta weaponry... it's the same thing that happened to Plasma in 5th).


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Sqwerlpunk said:


> I don't buy Lascannon Preds solely for their firepower, TKE
> 
> I buy Lascannon Preds (and only the turret! no sponsons!) for mobile AV13 that will VERY reliably threaten my opponent's Transports (a major concern almost always), thus drawing fire by turn 2 and on pretty reliably, and away from my other, more dangerous units. Also, it tends to pop transports.
> 
> Also, Lascannons cost too damn much for SM in 5th edition. I think it's because GW had a knee-jerk reaction to their massed use in 4th, and wanted to even out the weapon use in 5th edition (then changed vehicle rules so Lascannons are sub-par compared to Melta weaponry... it's the same thing that happened to Plasma in 5th).


How are Plasma weapons sub-par in 5th?
Nothing changed about them, except that now they negate FNP.

And Lascannon are only expensive in 5th for SM on Predators and Devastators.
They're only 10 points for a Tac squad, that's a bargain!
So you've got your 10-man squad with a Lascannon, Flamer (or something), and a sarge with combi-flamer, sweet tank-sniper / close shooting squad (split obviously)


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

New cover rules make Plasma quite a bit less cost-efficient, in my mind, and they are expensive as hell for 5th edition SM.

As for Tac Squads, I don't believe that 10pts is worth +1S and -1AP over a Missile Launcher, which can also counter Hordes. I also don't like Combat Squads 95% of the time.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Also, now that most forces are (finally) Mechanised, Plasma is pitiful most of the game, due to it's weaknesses trying to take out Transports.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Plasma's are just impractical now. Now that the lascannon/plasma gun combo is dead.

Only a handful of troops will get any good from Plasma guns, and thats Sternguard and Terminators. 

Just buy 1 tactical squad and a Rhino if you MUST spend money. 10 men in a Transport is always a good investment and a good way to expand a force.


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## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

Anti-plasma sentiment in 5th ed... garbage. LOL.

Plasma only got better. As to cover saves.. plasma guns are close to mid range weapon. Most 'cover' on the table really only affects long range. How's a tac squad hiding behind a rhino going to get a cover save if the squad shooting at them is right by them? Simple answer... they don't. As to plasma cannons... well, they are just plain good at stacking crap loads of wounds. Regardless of whether or not the infantry is in cover, they still have to throw lots of saves.

You guys must play in jungle terrain or something. I usually set my boards up with a little more than 25% of solid terrain, and then sprinkle in a few extra pieces for flavor, and I still find plenty of situations where I get to shoot at infantry with plasma cannons or plasma guns without them getting cover saves.

As to 'new' cover rules... I really don't think that's affected much. Now, instead of terrain blocking LOS completely, shit behind it gets a cover save, but you can still shoot at it. Sweet. 4th ed had plenty of 4+ cover to be had in ruins, so no difference there either. About the only thing that changed was infantry giving other infantry cover.

As to shit being mechanized... I don't think anyone really decided to mech their lists because of 5th ed. I know I played mech in 4th, and so did a lot of the people I knew. And guess what? Saying plasma isn't good at popping transports is like saying that autocannons aren't good at it... I've killed plenty of rhinos, razorbacks, vindicators, and leman russes with plasma, the latter 2 usually from rear armor shooting.

Lascannon/plasma gun combo didn't die because of the rulebook... it died because 5 man tac squads can't get lascannons or plasma guns anymore, and that was what made las/plas nasty... you could get lots of them without having to get a crap load of troops. That's what many people would by the tac squad for... not the bolters or anything else, just those 2 guns. Now, you have to buy a full 10 man tac squad to get those, and who the hell wants to do that just to get a las/plas? Noone. So, new codex killed las/plas, not the rules.

@Orochi
How the hell are termies or sternguard going to make the most use out of plasma guns? Termies can't get them, and sternguard have ammo for that job.

@Squirrel
+1 S -1 AP? You meant -1 ST -1 AP, right? And no, missile launchers really aren't THAT good at taking on hordes. At least not good enough to be considered a COUNTER.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Autocannons have twice the range, and can't kill yourself. :laugh:

You are right about Las/Plas, to an extent. 5th Ed did make it an inferior choice.


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## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

I have to disagree... I really don't think that 5th ed made las/plas tac squads an inferior choice.

As to plasma killing yourself... what's so fun about using weapons that don't have a chance at blowing up in your face?

Now, I'm not a big plasma user, other than the 4 plasma cannon devvie squad that I whip out every now and then to the shagrin of my SW buddy. Being a Salamanders player, I do mostly rely on flamers and meltaguns to get my work done. However, I personally feel that every weapon in the game is useful at some point in time. Well, almost. I think the new IG penal legionnares have the crappiest rules I've ever seen. But, other than that, you won't see someone bitching about having plasma when there's a carnifex or terminators around to kill.

God, penal legionnares suck. They are so far from the coolness they used to be...



Sqwerlpunk said:


> maniclurker, do you happen to have vassal? we need to have a game between us, just to get all this aggression towards ideas out.


Yes, I do have vassal, actually. Alas, I'm on a ship in the middle of the Gulf, and the internet sucks. That, and the fact that I have to work 25 hours a day really hampers my ability to play prolonged games. Plus, the logistics involved... we're probably in completely opposite time zones. The chance that you and I could have to regularly meet up and finish a game that takes multiple sessions is slim.

Don't get me wrong. I think that scouts in a storm have quite a bit of potential. In one of the last few games I played against my buddy before I deployed, I brought a 5 man scout squad with shotguns and a power weapon for the serg, in a storm with a MM. 2nd turn, the little doom squad zoomed in from my buddies flank, parking itself 11" from a LRC and 7" from a long fang squad. Let's just say my buddy was heart broken as a dinky 65 pt skimmer blew his LRC up, and a squad of SM newbs took out his veteran gun toters.

I just don't like 5 man squads with power fists... even in power armor. I have seen far too many small squads such as that get taken out before they get to use the fist. And it's only worse that the scouts are WS3 and have 4+ save.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

maniclurker said:


> I just don't like 5 man squads with power fists... even in power armor. I have seen far too many small squads such as that get taken out before they get to use the fist. And it's only worse that the scouts are WS3 and have 4+ save.


I agree, people place too much value on them.
Yes a 5 man Scout squad with a Fist is a punch to the balls against vehicles.
But really, with the LSS -2 Ld grenade things, your primary goal is to win a combat and make the enemy break.
A fist doesn't help you do that any more than a sword, and it costs more too.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I think that's backwards thinking. You don't do things because you are good at them, you get good at what needs to be done. Just because you have a decent chance against an infantry unit with the scouts in the storm, that in no way means the infantry are a better target.

My preferred outcome is for the sergeant to charge a tank while the scouts fight some kind of heavy support squad. Charging 2 r even 3 tanks is also great.

Charging infantry at the start of the game is often impossible anyway, due to the amount of mechanisation. It's pretty rare for there to be a good infantry target to charge anyway. 

Ultimately, if there are no vehicles then the power fist can still beat up MCs and instant kill characters. A squad with a fist still beats a devastator squad type thing. A power wep against an army of vehicles and MCs is just rubbish.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Someguy said:


> Ultimately, if there are no vehicles then the power fist can still beat up MCs and instant kill characters. A squad with a fist still beats a devastator squad type thing. A power wep against an army of vehicles and MCs is just rubbish.


I guess so.
It's just that Power fists are such a commonly used thing, it makes me feel dirty to have them on EVERYTHING.
I really like the idea of having a -stealthy- looking scout melee squad, the Sarge with his sword and Plasma pistol, cutting guys down.
Then they break, and there was much rejoicing.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Those are good points. It's boring that everyone has power fists, and they clearly aren't the best thing in every possible situation, but they are pretty good almost all the time and sometimes very good indeed.

As I mentioned earlier, I would really prefer to stay in cc with my scouts, rather than have the enemy break. If the enemy breaks then I get shot.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Someguy said:


> TAs I mentioned earlier, I would really prefer to stay in cc with my scouts, rather than have the enemy break. If the enemy breaks then I get shot.


But then you're wasting the potential of the Cerberus launchers.
Isn't that why you do the Scouts/Storm thing anyway?
If not, then wouldn't an assault marine squad be better most of the time?


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Assault marines are obviously better at cc. Scouts in a storm reach further on turn 1 than anything else. You can deploy the storm then scout move 24", move 12", disembark 2"+base, charge 6". You can charge pretty much anywhere on turn 1.

Personally I don't factor my scouts and storm into my plan. They are an independent unit that strikes at whatever unit is most important to my opponent's strategy instead. They can cause havoc amongst a group of transports bunched up to hide behind terrain or any kind of gunline units, and they can hit anywhere. Spoiling my opponent's plan is a great way to put me in charge of the game right from the start.

In my experience the cerberus launcher is nice, but not a huge deal. So much stuff is fearless of stubborn, or a vehicle, that few units even take ld checks. When they do, 5th ed already puts so many mods against the losing side that it's often virtually auto-fail anyway.


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## Acharon (Sep 8, 2009)

I have to suggest Sternguard Veterans because they are an all around great squad, they can easily accomplish any "mission" that you want them to do, such as taking down Fexes, Demon Princes, a horde of Orcs / Nids with hellfire rounds or go vengence rounds against any marines, Necrons or Eldar. and if any Tau or IG are foolish enough to show their faces just shoot it off with the kraken bolts.

Not only do they a special ammunition which is great for any situation, you can also give them any combi-weapon (*which works well with vulkan on the field*)

I perfer to give mine some combi-meltas and flamers (i don't like plasma much) also giving the sargent a power fist is good because they are likely to get to combat (usually they are assaulted). 

They work great if you run them in a Rhino or drop pod, drop pods work exceptionally well if you drop behind their vehicles and melta the hell out of them. Also remember that you can combat squad them out of a drop pod so you have the opportunity to blow two vehicles to high heaven. 

I tend to only drop pod them only if I'm running at least 3 pods in the army so that they aren't alone behind enemy lines on the first turn. 

Either way they have been in my army lists consistently since the 5th edition codex was released and they have always performed amazingly well.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Someguy said:


> In my experience the cerberus launcher is nice, but not a huge deal. So much stuff is fearless of stubborn, or a vehicle, that few units even take ld checks. When they do, 5th ed already puts so many mods against the losing side that it's often virtually auto-fail anyway.


Aah yeah, I guess it's more of an opportunity thing too.
Just like the jamming beacon it has, that's great if they have Deep Striking things that want to get behind your vehicles, like Obliterators; but other than that it rarely does anything.


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