# Blood Angel Tactics



## maxtangent

With their flaming red 'put a target on me and try to conserve my geneseed when I'm gone' paint scheme, what makes Blood Angels more than just a fashion statement?

This thread is for analyzing what makes BAs different from the other chapters.
Please stay on topic or Jezlad will beat your favorite arcade high score just to spite you.

So, does BA = 'Bad Ass'? Why or why not?


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## Galahad

The obvious difference people like to glom onto with Blood Angels is our rather impressive Assault capabilities. But let's not forget that there are other chapters (Wolves, Templars) and other armies (Nids, Chaos, Orks) that do assault as well or better.

The important thing to realize is that the Blood Angels are an army that does assault well, but we are not, nor have we ever been, in any edition, a purely Assault Army. Blood Angels back in the olden days were almost indistinguishable from regular marines as far as unit composition and availability went. In 2nd edition we had the Death Company (which was optional and you didn't have to pay extra for it if you didn't want it), but without Jump Packs, and the Baal predator. Dante could also take Jump Packs in his retinue, but I don;t think they were standard for all HG units of the day.

We still had tactical squads and devastators, and back then our dreadnoughts only came with one hand. The example armies laid out in the old Angels of Death codex all had strong assault elements, usually at least one assault squad and a mounted Death Company, but they always included a very strong firebase to support the assault spearhead. Devastator squads were always part of the old layouts, as were tacticals. No special rules shoehorned us into playing as assaulters, and even the Death Company were given bolters as often as not.

When Third Edition came out we got our assualt role further enhanced and defined. The entire army gained Furious Charge, we were limited to pistol/CCW scouts (except for one squad), the Furioso Dreadnought made its debut, Death Company, Honor Guards and Veterans got their jump packs, and the Black Rage made us want to put down our lascannons and move into action. But even then, we were not a pure assault army. Not compared to assault monsters like World Eaters and Tyranids. 

No, 3rd edition may have changed our role, but it didn't make us a genuine assault army because it never took away our impressive amounts of firepower. Wolfpacks of land speeders ranged ahead of fearsome Baal predators (now equipped with Heavy Bolters rather than restrictive heavy flamers as our only sponson option). The now intimidating assault element was backed up by either small, efficient fire teams, or by larger, all-purpose squads, often lugging along a powerfist sarge, should they randomly charge out of their firing position and end up getting close enough for an impromptu assault push.

While to some people, this era defined Blood Angels as straight up assault, to most it showed not just the need for an assault army to have good support, but showcased our ability to provide just that kind of support. The best, strongest, winningest, Blood Angels lists were balanced lists. A strong assault element (usually at least one assault squad and the Death Company, along with whatever characters the army called for) mated with the kind of awesome fire support that Marines can deliver.

The Fourth Edition codex took away our Furious Charge, but also our 'crazy go nuts' roll. Now Blood Angels can use heavy weapons again without fearing a 1 in 6 chance of moving and spoiling shots. They gave us assault marines as troops, but they also gave us a ton of shooting enhancements. The ability to split our Dev squads up (either taking two different weapon types and having one combat squad for tanks and one for troops, or just splitting the squad up to kill two tanks at once), the ability to separate the assault element from the shooting element of our tactical squads, the increased viability of Multimelta bikes, and, of course, flying meltaguns.

Through it all, they've enhanced our assault ability, but they never took away all of the rest of the things that made us Space Marines. We still have access to all the big guns, we still have the scary tanks. But we've morphed from vanilla with a tiny bit of assault flavor, into assault oriented but with a strong support core, into a run-and-gun mobile shooting force with the ability to go toe to toe and win.

Despite the return of stable fire support to our army rules, the points economy of the newly priced heavy weapons (not to mention the added cost for the mandatory DC marine) makes static fire support squads less desireable than in the old days. Instead, the wise Blood Angel player knows better than to dump points into expensive shooters, but also knows not to go all-in on assault without support. The smart choice lies in the center. A fast, balanced list that focuses on mobile firepower coupled with assault capability. "Run and Gun" and "Mobile Melta" become the bywords of the day.

I'll go into details and tactics later, this is mainly just a history of our chapter and what sets us apart from both assault-heavy chapters like templars, and from the more generic marines.


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## Ubiquitous

Amen Galahad, I think you just covered everything that anyone will ever need to say in this tactica. from here on out, it's all about specific units, we've got a feel for the army.


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## Alias2003

Ya that was real good Galahad.

Only thing I could add is that BA pay more for heavy weapons and land speeders than regular SM...but they get units like attack bikes that are much cheaper and very mobile....It's not a balance issue, just that you might pay a little extra for popular units like landspeeder tornados compared to regular SM. 

Once again....damn...very nice post galahad

Alias


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## Deceiver

is it a disadvantage to be forced to have either a 5 man or 10 man sqd only?
being able to split into 2 5 man scoring units can be a big plus. just wondering pts wise if it messes up any lists you want to do.


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## CaptainBailean

personally i like the 10 man tac squads. thye allow you to have a scoring unit with enough fire power to hold its own. but it mostly depends on the type of battle and what army your up against


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## Galahad

Thanks guys. I'm just glad it came out coherent. I wrote that way after bedtime, and I tend to ramble when I'm sleepy ;-)

Alias brings up a good point, one I touched on briefly towards the end. They never took away the stuff that makes us like regular marines, but they did make it more expensive. We can use many of the same tactics as normal marines, but it;s not very efficient. Better instead to do things our own way.

Deceiver, the Combat Squads rule is a two edged sword, to be sure. Especially in a points-heavy list like Blood Angels (do the math on oursquads and you'll see that the initial 5-man buy in includes paying for a veteran sarge, and extra points for the Death Company marine we supposedly get for free)

For Devastators it's not that bad. Most people tend to field 8-10 man dev squads already. Buying the couple extra guys is no loss compared to being able to split up before deployment and come out with two highly lethal fire teams for the price of one.

Similarly, Assault Squads tend towards 8-10 men in most classic marine lists, so you're just buying a couple extra bodies (and we get a discount on our 'free' DC marine with assault squads, so the extra cost is partially mitigated), and from what I've seen, multiple 5-man squads assaulting the same target can actually be pretty effective. Unfortunately I haven't got a lot of experience with the assault squad combat squad tactics. I tend to rely on the DC and VAS for my main assault thrust.

If anyone has made extensive use of Combat Squads (or just plain 5-man units) in their Assault Squads, please let us hear how they work.

The big impact of the Combat Squads rule, however, was on the Tactical Squad.

Back in 3rd ed, the 5-6 man Las/Plas squad was king. It was very cheap but highly effective static fire support. The combat Squads rule, however, restricts heavy weapons to 10 man teams. This was a big blow to the old tactics. Now if you want that small fire team you have to buy an extra 5 marines to stand around and do nothing, or to break off and be generally ineffective on their own.

However, it does lead to some interesting options. Rather than going with a bloated 10-man fire team, or a 5 man squad with no weapons and a small fireteam, you have a couple of options that, when combined with our cheaper transports can be fairly effective.

The first option is to simply take a 5 man team and either issue them a plasgun, or if you have the points, a Fist and a Melta. In either case, mounting them up in a rhino is a good idea. 

With the plasgun team it allows you to either position this mini-fireteam where they'll be most effective, or lets you use them as a rapid fire hit and run squad (if that's your intent, throwing in a plas pistol might be worth the expense). The rhino can become a mobile wall or, if it gets slagged, becomes an instant harden firing position for your fireteam. You could also buy a lascannon razorback instead of a rhino and come out slightly cheaper than buying the extra 5 men, but these tanks are fragile, so it;s not adviseable unless you have a lot of other armor in the list.

For the melta/fist squad the utility of the turbo-charged rhino becomes obvious. Use its speed to bring your meltagun and powerfist into the fray where they can be used to rape tanks or take on hevy infantry in an assault.

The second option we have is to buy a 10 man squad and do that exact same thing, except with the addition of a 5-man team standing back with a missile launcher (lascannons are too expensive these days) adding ranged fire support.

There's a couple down sides to the second option, however. Not only does it add points to an already expensive troop choice, but in Escalation games, units with transports are forced to deploy from reserve...which means they cannot be split off into combat squads. For some configurations (Plasgun, ML and rhino) this isn't too bad, and the rhino can just become a wall to hide your men behind, but for others like the melta/fist/ML team you end up with a mismatched mix of weapons that will end up excluding one another in most cases. Worse still, if you bought a Razorback, now you have a transport that you can't even use since the whole squad no longer fits inside. Though you can always deploy the razor on its own as a light tank in that case.

Escalation games can play merry hob with our combat squads.

Ill start coming up with specific unit tactics for our signature units tomorrow, probably. I have to start getting ready for work soon. I might post after work, or I might get some sleep first. In the meantime, if any other BA players have something of their own to add, or people have more questions, fire away. Everyone's free to contribute


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## Katie Drake

Galahad said:


> If anyone has made extensive use of Combat Squads (or just plain 5-man units) in their Assault Squads, please let us hear how they work.


I've never once used a full 10 man unit of Assault Marines with my Flesh Tearers but I frequently make use of 5 strong units.

Many players will raise an eyebrow at the idea of taking a dedicated assault unit that's only 5 men strong, but if equipped and used properly these small but deadly units can be very effective for their cost.

Firstly, their equipment. My Assault Squads look like this:

*Assault Squad*
Veteran Sergeant
- Bolt pistol
- Power Fist
- Jump Pack
4 Assault Marines
- Bolt pistols
- Chainswords
- Jump packs
Pts: 165

I'll take two of these units to meet my minimum 2 Troops choices. Other than these, I tend to steer clear of the Troops section altogether, though that's another topic.

Since Blood Angel armies tend to be so full of nasty assault units as it is (what with having access to Veteran Assault Squads ((or VAS)) and Death Company) people tend to ignore the little 5 man units in favor of trying to slow or stop the more threatening units from reaching their lines intact. This gives the Assault Squads relatively free reign to either aid the larger units in their attack by charging in and adding more attacks and bodies to the fight or to threaten other units. Often I'll find myself charging a unit that my Veterans or Death Company can't charge yet in order to hold them in place.

Also since Assault Squads are so often ignored, they're usually above half strength by the end of the game and therefore count as scoring units. Since they have jump packs they're able to move quickly enough to grab objectives or table quarters.

Hope this helps a bit,

Katie D


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## Galahad

That helps a lot, Katie!
Not a fan of 15 point plaspistols? :wink:

Now on to what (I feel) makes for an effective BA list.

*HQ*
Good News/Bad News time...

Good news is, our named charaters are all very awesome and each one well worth the points (except, as always, Tycho...poor, dead Tycho).

The bad news is our normal HQ character choices are all kinda...lame. 

*Captains *are a big 'meh'...but then they were always pretty boring. They come with an Iron Halo and a third wound, which is cool, and Rites of Battle is ok (not super great now that every squad is Ld9, but still nice) but just bland. Our armament choices are severely limited compared to the pick and choose of the old Armoury list. Be sure to note that the combi-weapon or Storm Bolter is in *addition* to his other weapons, so he won't lose attacks for having one. May as well go for Storm Bolter, maybe a Combi-Melta, but SB is cheaper and will get more use. Best weapon choice: Either Power Weapon or Lightning Claws, depending on your budget. Never buy fists or hammers for ICs unless you have a free power-weapon (like your chaplain does). Always buy jump packs.

*DIY Sanguinary High Priests* are a thing of the past, sorry guys.

*Librarian:* Only one type (besides Mephy), only two powers, no access to Invul saves (except as a Terminator), no jump packs! (Yes, we have the fruity Wings of Sanguinius power, but if you use it you can't use any other power or your force weapon that turn...and it can be blocked by hoods, could make you suffer warp, eldar mind tricks, etc). Wings of Sanguinius is a cruel joke. Might of Heroes is nice though, good for when you go against squads instead of monsters. 

If you have the points, consider a bike. The extra toughness will help, and it's more reliable than wings...plus you can make it a jet bike if you use your power on it. Otherwise, perhaps Terminator.

*Chaplains:* The de-facto head of almost any BA army...you need a chaplain. No matter what else you take, one of your HQ should be a chaplain. You need him to keep the DC from chasing transports or running around like idiots. Likewise, he needs a Jump Pack, or maybe a Bike. 

Other than that, I wouldn't arm him up too much, keep him cheap so you won't cry when he goes down in CC. If you want to spend some points though, consider a Powerfist. The DC lost their fists (but gained Rending), so a reliable high-strength attack for use against vehicles would be handy. Rending is good, but not super reliable. I frown on fists for ICs because it wastes their high initiative and they usually end up getting killed before they can use it, if they're up against a real threat. However, the chaplain comes with a free power weapon, so he can use that when he's up against most threats and the fist for armor. That or a Storm Bolter to add some firepower to the DC. Either one is in addition to his CA and pistol.

Now, all that said, if you want a tough, competitive list your best bet is usually to scrap the generics and go for Name Brand. Our Named Characters really are fantastic!

I know a lot of people prefer to invent their own, or can't justify the fluff of having the legends of the chapter leading their little band...well, that's what Counts As rules are for. Eldrad has been dead for some time in the current fluff, but that won't stop him from leading every Eldar army you're going to end up facing at the tourney table. Call them Assistant Librarian Draculon and his friend Father O'Malleus if you like. Give them new, unique models if you want to. Just take advantage of their abilities and stats.
*
Dante:* Dante is pretty badass, but the amount of cool characters makes him second or even third choice. For 100 points over the cost of a regular captain you get +1 WS, +1 Attack, Artificer Armor, Jump Pack a MC power axe, a meltagun that counts as a pistol, Favored Enemy on all friendly BA units within 12", and -1 to BS and WS to enemy models within 6". Plus he gives you access to the Chapter Banner, which gives +1A to all members of the HG (and attacked ICs). This is a fantastic character, but he's not even our best!

*Tycho:*...ok, screw Tycho. No, really, he's freaking useless. No power weapon (not even a CCW!) no Jump Pack, a useless special rule (Favored enemy orks doesn't mean much when you're WS5)...I mean, yes, he has artificer armor and a combi-melta for only 10 points over a captain but that's *all* he has. 
*
Corbulo:* Corbsy is a cool character, and dirty cheap. Same cost as a Captain, but instead of Rites of Battle and an Iron halo he gets the Red Grail and the ability to lead the DC, plus an Exanguinator. The only real problem is that's about all he gets. No JP and no power weapon. (Though at least he was smart enough to pack a pistol and sword, unlike Tycho) This is a problem though, since his abilities are going to put him at the forefront of our assault forces. The Grail gives all BA units that are within 12" at the start of the assault phase Furious Charge. It also gives him a 4+ invul. Unfortunately, putitng him in with the DC is a waste since they don't benefit from the Grail, and his lack of mobility only slows them down. 

However, if you want a low-cost HQ, take Corbsy and a Chaplain. Put the chappy with the DC and throw Corbsy into a Crusader with some CC Terminators, or a tooled up Honour Guard (VAS would work better, but their JPs are problematic. Dropping them grants you a free transport, but you don;t want to put them in a rhino...I suppose you could always run the rhino empty as a decoy) Or if you're cheap, pack them into a rhino and pray.

*Mephiston:* Oh, god...I think I need to change my pants, hold on.
Ok, seriously, this guy is the biggest, hardest, most vicious IC in this or any other army list. The only close matches are Abaddon and Mephistion's evil twin Jeffiston. Just about anyone else can only really hope to take him out with them.

For 105 more than a standard Librarian you get... +1 WS, +1S, +1T, +1W, +1I, +1A, +1LD, a 2+ save, Fearless, Feel No Pain(!!), a Plaspistol, a third power, and the ability to use ALL THREE powers AND his FW in the same turn!
To make things even juicier, Feel No Pain *will* allow him to ignore Perils of the Warp wounds. T5 means he only fears Railguns, heavy ordinance and Dreadnought CCWs. Anything that isn't a power weapon or instant death can be shrugged off with his Feel no Pain. The wings become a good thing here since they get this monster into CC and don't interfere with his other abilities.

Mephiston is one evil, scary mofo, but he's not quite indestructable. No invul save means that Power Weapons are a real threat to him in CC, particularly Dreadnought CCWs and Force Weapons/Blissgivers (and maybe Direswords, but not with his LD score). Fortunately, he's got a higher initiative score than all but the fastest characters, and even then there are very, very few who can actually outdraw the man. His Transfixing Gaze is always worth a try, but not really all that reliable. The characters you *want* it to work on (ICs, powerfist Vets) tend to ave high leadership scores and will shrug it off. Meanwhile, transfixed models count as their own one-man unit when it comes to how to direct attacks, so he has to choose whether to waste all his attacks utterly obliterating one model, or spend them killing everyone else in the unit. Meanwhile the transfixed model survives when, had he been able to move, he'd probably get cut down.

Mephy is expensive, but worth the investment in all but the smallest lists. Have one of your little 5-man assault teams fly ahead of him to block shots and pick off nay transfixed models in the assault.

Last, but by far not least...
*Lemartes:* At first glance, Good Ole Lemmy doesn't look very special at all. But take a look at his price. For 25 points more than a normal Chappy you get +1W and +1LD, a Jump Pack (there's 20 points right there), and the Death Mask, which gives -1 LD to enemies within 6"

So assuming you were going to give your chaplain a JP anyhow, 5 points buys you better stats and a -1 LD to enemy models. There's no reason *not* to take the bastard in place of a normal chaplain, unless you were going to go for terminator or biker or something...and even then, the extra stats are tempting. 

Lemartes may not be as impressive as Dante or Mephiston, but he's going to appear in almost every Blood Angels list

Oh, and lest we forget...
*Honour Guard:* Here's an important thing to remember about BA (and DA) command units...they are no longer Retinue. They do not take up FOC slots, but they are no longer tied to your IC. They are free to do their own thing. This is good, because the VAS really makes a much better escort unit for our assault-heavy ICs, while the HG makes a great solo unit.

Despite being limited to 5 men, they still make a potent assault threat, but are no match for even a 5 man VAS. They work best as either flying or mounted troubleshooters. They can take a pair of plaspistols in addition to a pair of special weapons and/or a pair of power weapons/fists. So you could have, say, a pair of plasguns (or meltas) and a pair of plaspistols, plus a pair of special melee weapons on the pistol guys (though losing a fist to a plasma burn sucks, and these are expensive options)

The specialists are mostly not worth taking, except possibly the Sanguinary Priest. Having a medic on hand is awesome in an expensive unit, especially if you plan to sling plasma around. Just remember the Exang doesn't work in assault anymore.

Standard Bearer is usually a waste. If you have Dante he might be worth it, maybe.

Champion is a joke. Compare him to the VAS where you could have three guys armed just like him but for 5 points less apiece. 

Tech Adept is a remarkably good value (PW, Arty armor and the ability to fix tanks for +30), but still not really worth it unless you're trying to field a HG unit in place of a techmarine...but even then the techie does his job better and doesn't waste a premier assault team to do it.

Still, though, as a small assault team they're a good buy. With JPs they're only 10 points more than a regular assault squad and have the extra attack and leadership. They also have good weapon choices, though not as good as the VAS. They're a good unit, just really not as good as the VAS for most things. Their slightly better firepower (plaspistol options in addition to guns) and ability to include a medic make them a good run and gun unit, if you want to spend the points.

That's it for now. More to come, of course.


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## CommanderDuskstorm

I just started my BA army and I pretty much fight ork or chaos. My Ork opponent recently told me about a squad he's building and I'd like to know how you'd deal with them. A 30 man slugga boy squad, with Grotznik leading them giving them feel no pain, cybork bodies giving them a 5+ invulnerable, and now he's talking about adding a warphead. I've played against this army once with my Guard army but the only reason i won was by killing everything but this squad, and ignoring (running away from) his uber squad. With such small squad numbers, how would you deal with such a durable and huge squad?


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## Katie Drake

CommanderDuskstorm said:


> I just started my BA army and I pretty much fight ork or chaos. My Ork opponent recently told me about a squad he's building and I'd like to know how you'd deal with them. A 30 man slugga boy squad, with Grotznik leading them giving them feel no pain, cybork bodies giving them a 5+ invulnerable, and now he's talking about adding a warphead. I've played against this army once with my Guard army but the only reason i won was by killing everything but this squad, and ignoring (running away from) his uber squad. With such small squad numbers, how would you deal with such a durable and huge squad?


This unit will be hard to deal with no matter what. Thankfully Blood Angel armies are usually highly mobile so you shouldn't have too much difficulty in avoiding this big uber squad until a time comes where you're ready to deal with them. When it comes to actually taking them down the best you can do is just hit them with everything that you've got. Baal Predators, Devastators, even large numbers of bolters will eventually cause enough wounds to bring this unit down. This is one time when I'd advise taking a Vindicator as the unit will have to rely completely upon their 5+ Invulnerable save to avoid Instant Death at the hands of the Vindicator's Demolisher cannon.


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## Galahad

Yeah, Katie's got it. A 30 man squad is a tough nut for anyone to crack, but thankfully they're too big for a transport so we can outrun them. Baal predators are golden here. And if you know he's bringing da boyz, consider swapping a few multimelta bikes out for HB bikes. Just keep your distance, use cover and no not engage them.

Likewise, Vindicators are handy here (I like vindis, but they tend to die fast), so are whirleinds. Park a whirlie behind something and just drop some napalm


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## CommanderDuskstorm

Thanks for the advise, I'll let you know how it turns out


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## Sons of Russ

Landraider Prometheus....

while technically a legal grey area for BA, [until the long overdue IA FAQ comes out] I field them as 0-1 Heavy Support.

12x Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters and a Storm Bolter make a mess of anything.

I like to call it my "Weedwacker" of cover saves....

I remember killing 7 Thousands Sons in one shooting phase where my opponent rolled horribly for saves....

Cover and Invuln saves don't mean much if you throw enough dice at a unit at a range he can not retaliate. 

A great weapon against hordes for BA with less points to spare is a Whirlwind or two, as Galahad has mentioned.


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## Galahad

I'll try to work on Elites later today.


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## Dimitri_Lensoven

i recently decided i want a lot of assault cannons in my re-made BA army, i was just wondering if any one had any advice against it? are they useful or just random AA thrown in?

im thinking 
1 LS tornado
1 BAAL predator
1 dread w/ assault cannon.
possibly a termy w/ assault cannon i havent decided yet.


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## Alias2003

Dimitri_Lensoven said:


> i recently decided i want a lot of assault cannons in my re-made BA army, i was just wondering if any one had any advice against it? are they useful or just random AA thrown in?
> 
> im thinking
> 1 LS tornado
> 1 BAAL predator
> 1 dread w/ assault cannon.
> possibly a termy w/ assault cannon i havent decided yet.


The Baal Predator is an awesome addition to any BA army. The twin linked assault cannons will destroy most infantry quickly and efficiently.

The LS Tornado is also a nice unit. Only problem is that BA pay more for this then other Sm army's, but we can take assault bikes with HB or MM for cheaper. If you really like landspeeders and insist on assault cannons then this would work.

A dread is a preference vehicle. I personally enjoy using them and get a lot of use out of mine. Other people don't like dreads because they are slow and draw a lot of fire. If you bring a dread make sure to give it extra armor, and make sure it is not your only vehicle. 

I have never been a fan of terminators and prefer to spend the points on VAS or more troop options. They are fire magnets also, and enough shots will even destroy tactical dreadnaught armor. 

Assault Cannons are AWESOME thought, but as BA army's are already good on anti-infantry because of all the CC units, I think that a Baal Predator and a Tornado would be enough support. You don't want to forget heavy weapons for anti armor.

Goodluck

Alias


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## Katie Drake

If you want to pack a lot of assault cannons into your list, it can be done even with a Blood Angel army. I've recently been running a list with three (that's right, count 'em *three*) Baal Predators. If one was to throw in some Land Speeder Tornadoes and possibly Dreadnoughts as well, you could have an army that's rather full of assault cannon goodness and is fairly effective at the same time.

Keep in mind though that Attack Bikes with multi-meltas are generally better choices than Land Speeders and that Dreadnoughts are fairly expensive points wise while being slow and fairly soft in the armor department. You may have more luck just fielding a more traditional BA army without maxing out on assault cannons.

Either way, good luck,

Katie D


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## Someguy

A couple of fairly random points.

Firstly, the rumours of fifth edition suggest that escalation will be removed, which will make life a little easier for combat squads - though only a little. One of the three set ups starts with all but two troops choices and one HQ in reserve, so everything but those units would end up getting their squads glued together anyway.

Tactical squads are a bit of a problem, as Galahad has already mentioned. It's pretty difficult to take a tactical squad that works either as two 5 man squads or one 10 man squad, depending on the scenario. Weapon set ups, transport options and so on are hard to figure out. 

My solution would be *to not take tactical squads*. You have the option of assault squads as troops, which are better at assaulting and/or beating up tanks close up than tactical squads. You also have the excellent ability to divide your devastator squads in half and get great crossing arcs of fire. 

Basically there's no way that the 5 man squads you get from taking a couple of tactical squads could ever give you the utility you would get from taking a devastator squad and an assault squad instead. You get more heavy weapons and more attacks in CC for a very similar cost, especially since you don't have to pay out for a transport - and weep if it gets destroyed, leaving your guys entangled somewhere.

A 5 man tactical or assault squad in a drop pod is quite an interesting option if you want to have something other than devastators and jump pack troops. It can mess up your opponent quite a bit, or it can go horribly wrong. A furioso dread can do good things if dropped in as well.

Playing BA I would tend to go for all infantry, or near all infantry. Baal predators are pretty good at killing infantry but your CC troops should be pretty good at that anyway. You have a load of missile launchers to shoot at tanks. I've never really rated Baal predators because of their short range and poor side armour, though occasionally they are effective. The multi-melta attack bikes do look like a bit too good a deal to ignore.

An all infantry force puts a lot of guys on the table and gives you a large death company. Your opponent's anti-meq weapons will be stretched while his AT will be under-employed. By throwing many 5 man squads of jump pack guys at him you are always able to counter-charge if one of your units gets bogged down or killed. A Baal pred can't do anything to help if one of your squads is in CC, but an assault squad can do loads.

Finally I would emphase, as Galahad says, that blood angels are not an all out assault army. Effective BA forces work by combining a savage rush with heavy firepower that prevents your opponent from moving around as he wants (he has to take cover) and kills units that are going to cause problems for your assault guys.

As for dealing with the unit of 30 orks, send in all your assault guys together, including the death company. Put a flamer in every assault squad, which will kill tons of orks, then have everyone charge. It would be fairly likely that you could kill the whole squad in one turn, or at least all the ones in the kill zone.


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## Dimitri_Lensoven

idk why, but i have a thing for the look of the assault cannon, for sure im doing the baal, and LS, and im pretty sure a venerable dread, but i think i will go with the VAS for elites...power weapons >.<


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## CommanderDuskstorm

So, I recently wentup against the Ork army I was talking about earlier with the uber Grotznik squad. I was able to hold my lines back and force my opponent to leave his cover and come at me. It worked in my favor because I was able to assault the uber-squad with a squad of assault termies, a VAS, A regular assault squad, and a dread, after shooting the crud out of them with everything else I had. I wasn't able to wipe them out in one turn, but knocking them down to a ten boy mob and killing Grotznik in the first assault helped me finish them in his assault phase. Not only was I able to deal with his uber-squad, but I was able to wipe every Ork model off the board by the end of the sixth turn for my first Annihilation result  So thanks for the suggestions and keep up the tactics sharing, good luck.

EDIT: I forgot to mention Mephiston was part of that assault, I must be getting old.


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## CaptainBailean

persoanlly im a fan of the furioso drop. its really only effctive against shooty armies(Tau, Imperial Guard) and it fails as much as it sucedes, but when it sucedes it really does the trick. i once droped my furioso behind by brothers Tau lines and tokk out both of his hammerheads in three turns. from there on it was a massacre. i also enjoy using a Baal pred with heavy flamers, it restricts the range but its nice for devastating large groups of infantry (Kroot, Boyz, Imp Guard Lost and the Damned) and couple that with the ball preds twin linked assault canons, you can tear aptart any enemy squad in one turn even.


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## Galahad

Note to DarKKKKK, I split your comment off and moved it to rules.

To everyone else...I'm going to try and work more on this later, but I keep forgetting about it.


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## Galahad

Sorry for the delay, things have been hectic and elites is probably our biggest, meatiest FOC section, so let's see how far I can get.

*Elites*
This is a highly competitive category that offers a lot of great units that are, unfortunately, also very expensive. Chances are (not counting DC) you'll only be fielding one or two elites choices in an average list, but they're usually worth it.

*Death Company:* (Doesn't take an FOC slot, but it counts as Elites)...
Let be frank here, this unit is NOT optional.
Oh, it may *say* it's optional and that you don't have to field them if you don't want to...but it also says that they are free. The book LIES. Our units cost extra because of the 'free' DC that we have to pay for...if you have to pay for it then not fielding them is pretty much like giving the other guy a head start on points. The only question is how much, if anything, do you want to invest in this unit. Generally 8 bodies is considered a good number if you're serious about it. 5 is about the functional minimum.

And generally Jump Packs are the only practical choice for transport. Rhinos are not strong enough to entrust a valuable unit like the DC to, and hoofing it isn't really a bright idea.

So you know what units give you the most bang for your buck, here's a breakdown of how much extra you pay for each DC-granting squad.
Honour Guard, Veteran Assault, Tactical, Devastator: 25 points
Assault Squad: 15 points
Terminators: Actually Free!

Also, assuming you're going to be buying at least a couple models for your DC, remember to factor in the cost of a DC model (25) when considering buying a unit that doesn't include one (such as a techmarine, or Scouts). That unit may look cheap and effective, but if you want to keep your DC up it's effectively 25 points more when you compare it to a unit that does grant a DC.

The important thing to remember about the DC is they're not indestructible. You should still be using cover and taking care not to leave them exposed to fire. Steer clear of big guns, power weapon teams, and those bloody S8 AP3 rockets. Use cover, hell, jump into cover if you have to. The Dangerous Terrain check is only 1 in 6, and you CAN recover with Feel No Pain. I'd rather risk it than leave them out in the open to shots that can instakill and/or ignore their armor.

And always, always, always get the charge. The extra attacks and chaplain's ability to let you reroll misses means you've got more chances to rend.And, of course, Furious Charge is always good to use.

I could go on and on with the Deathco, but I should move on, it;s a big section.

*Terminators:*
Termies are expensive, but good and sturdy, with good damage potential, and with the actually honest to god free DC they grant, they;re about the most cost effective unit in the list.

However...they're still very expensive, not very mobile and (thanks to our utter lack of teleport homers) not very reliable for deep striking anymore. Worse still, apparently our termies don't like rollin' in the raiders much because their only dedicated transport is our very expensive drop pod. Unfortunately, the most effective way to field terms sans teleport homer is inside a raider, which you can still do, but it costs a HS slot and is, well, even more expensive

But, sadly, in an expensive list, even the relatively cost effective terminators are too unreliable to gamble that many points on, IMO. If you're a skilled terminator player, then they're not a bad unit, but they're just not reliable enough anymore. If you do use them, I suggest skipping the drop pod...The added security and the ability to hide behind it is handy, bit not at the cost of inflating an already expensive unit that can already deepstrike.

That's it for the moment, I need to go to bed. But more later, I promise.


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## Galahad

Elites, Continued...

*Dreadnoughts:*
We get two flavors: Regular and Furioso. Both are tempting, but to be fielded properly they require a lot of points, points we can ill afford.

AV12 is weak, so naturally you're going to want Venerable (which all of our dreads can have), well if you take Venerable you practically must take Extra Armor. And because it's still pretty fragile and you're going to want to get it close (especially the Furioso) you need to buy it a Drop Pod...Pods are almost mandatory for furiosos if you want them to survive long enough to assault. Now we're at 85 points worth of extras before we even decide on weapons. A bit of an exaggeration, but it shows that there's a lot of tempting, even necessary additions that you'll have to consider when you go to buy.

For Furiosos, a Heavy Flamer is a better choice than the Storm Bolter, and you're going to need a Drop Pod. The Death Company option is also very tempting. Likewise, with the chances of it drawing a lot of fire and/or facing down powerfists, the armor and venerable potions are worth considering...but this means you could end up spending 215 points for one AV 12 fire magnet, and a drop pod...for 5 points more you could have 5 VAS with a pair of fists and a pair of meltas and your choice of a pod or jump packs. More firepower, more (but weaker) fist attacks, and more durrability against anti-tank fire.

If you're thinking about a standard dread, my suggestion would be just going full bore and taking the LC/ML and make it a mobile tank-sniper. Maybe take Venerable, but not much else. Keep it cheap and keep it moving. The Assault Cannon is tempting, but it makes you get too close, IMO. If you're going to get that close, you may as well take the Furioso. Likewise, the multimelta is useless. To get the most out of it you have to get terribly close, maybe even pod in. If you're getting that close, why not get a tiny it closer and take the Furioso with its meltagun and extra DCCW attacks? Plascannon and Auto-Cannon are good middle-ground options if you want to be able to take down medium armor and still be able to put the hurt on infantry while keeping your distance.

*Techmarines*
The good news is, they don't take up an elites slot, and you could (theoretically) take one for every Dread, Pred, Whirlie and Raider in the list. However, they're also expensive, slow and of limited utility. The Techmarine is a sweet model, and the servo-harness is very cool...but between his kit, his transport and his servitors, you're spending a ton of points on a unit whose sole purpose is to repair vehicles...which are usually much cheaper than the techmarine you just paid for. Not exactly making his points back, here.

You could use him as a 'cheap' devastator squad, but when you factor in the DC you'd have to buy, a Tech with 4 HB servators runs you 200 (175 if you don't need any extra DC) for a 5-man squad with (on average) lower saves and stats than a similarly armed Dev squad. Meanwhile 5 devastators with HBs run you 175...with better saves and stats. Our techmarines don't even get a Signum, so their fire support role is pretty much limited.

Honestly, if you really want someone to fix your tanks, you might be better off fielding a Tech Adept Honour Guard with jump packs. This way it's fast enough to get where you need to go without riding around in an iron coffin. If you want a fire support squad, go for Devastators. 

*Scouts:*
Yep, I skipped VAS...I'll get to them in a minute.
Scouts are a good, relatively inexpensive unit with a lot going for them. 10 points cheaper than a tactical squad (when you factor in buying a DC model), but with higher tactical flexibility (in exchange for lighter armor). They can infiltrate, can be equipped with CCWs, sniper rifles, or S4 shotguns, have access to the most cost-effective heavy weapons (missiles and HBs), they can be combat-squadded...they're just a really, really good unit.

So why don't we see them in lists? Because it's all we can do to scrape up the points to field a pair of minned-down troops choices and still fund our addictive HQ, VAS and DC point sinks. Scouts may well be a great unit, but they're 'extra' and it;s hard to justify them in a list that;s already got a lot of great units and is strapped for points.

If you do field scouts, my suggestion would be to take the greatest advantage of their flexibility and their ability to be split up with Combat Squads. Field a 10 man team of scouts, 4 Snipers and a Heavy Bolter (or misisle launcher, but HB is a better fit) in one unit, and the Sarge with a PF and 4 guys with either pistols and CCWs or shotguns in the other and spliut them off. Infiltrate the snipers into a secure firing position, and infiltrate the fist into a place where they can do the most damage, preferably to an enemy vehicle (remember, we get free grenades). The 5-man CC team becomes a delivery system for the powerfist, so use it in places where the fist is going to be more useful than an extra 5 guys armed with pistols and swords (go for vehicles, terminators, small units with heavy armor and high points costs. Meanwhile, five snipers and a heavy weapon can do pretty good damage against infantry squads or big-baddies with unreasinably high toughness scores

Shotguns in this situation are underrated. On the first round of combat, the shotgun is more lethal on average than having pistols (unless you're going against orks or IG where the pistol's AP would come into play). You're losing a CC attack, but gaining a Shooting attack that is the same strength but hits on a 3+ rather than a 4+...more importantly, it also hits before the assault, so you get an extra chance to mow down those pesky eldar before they can rip you up on I5+ however, if the assault lasts more than one round, the CCWs are going to be more useful. Still, I suppose, in most cases you're probably better off with pistols and CCWs. Just don't feel bad if you happen to have some shotgun scouts laying around, they're still useful.

*Veteran Assault Squad*
The undisputed king of our regular Elites choices, and second only to the Death Company in the sheer amount of terror they can inspire in your enemies.

Compared to a regular assault squad, they're cheap, even at base. For 10 points more you get an extra attack and an extra point of LD for the whole squad. (When you subtract the cost of the DC models, and the assault squad's mandatory veteran sarge, a VAS is only 3 points more per model!) Combine that with their insane amount of options and you find that the only reason BB players even take regular assault squads are to fill out our troop requirements, and because we only get a max of 3 VAS squads ;-)

When setting up your VAS, remember not to go crazy...just because you CAN have three Thunderhammers and give everyone in the squad a Combat Shield doesn't mean you SHOULD. (Though it would look fucking AWESOME...)

The best size for the VAS is probably 8 men. It gives you a few spare bodies that you can afford to lose to fire before entering combat without making the squad even more expensive. Though, properly equipped, a 5-man team can be very lethal, especially since they have the option of taking a free drop pod in place of packs (though, frankly, I like packs better...you can still DS, but you also have the mobility to move on afterwards).

Practically mandatory weapons: Two meltaguns and at least one powerfist or hammer. Mobile Melta is the new blood angels motto. If you can take a pair of meltaguns on jump packs, then you SHOULD take a pair of meltaguns on jump packs. There really isn't any reason not to. They're only 10 points apiece and you have the speed and mobility to get them where they need to be. TAKE THEM. Plasma Guns are a tempting option if you're up against a lot of heavy infantry, but if you want a jumping plasma squad you might be better taking an honour guard.

Similarly, powerfists are a must for any squad likely to get into assault. The slow initiative really dosn't matter much since chances are you'll be able to pick away enough casualties to let good ole Sarge survive long enough to return the favor with his fist. It also makes a nice deterrant to keep baddies like dreadnoughts and ICs at bay. For only 5 points more, Thunderhammer really is a worthy upgrade, you may not use that stunning ability much, but it's handy when you do. If you're gearing them up as tankbreakers then there's no reason why you shouldn't just go for it.

If you have the points, a second fist is never a bad thing to have, but if you don't you can always pick up a power weapon or (if you're really hard up on points) a pair of storm bolters. Storm bolters are handy in the same way as shotguns (but with better range and AP), giving you an extra shooting attack that'll hit easier than the extra CC attack you're giving up.

Usually a single VAS, combined with a properly equipped DC is more than enough assault punch for most armies, and if you can you should always take one, if nothing else than as a back up terror squad to either draw fire from the DC, or jump in and do what needs to be done when the enemy throws everything it has against the boys in black.


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## DarKKKKK

good stuff right here
thanx for all the info :good:


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## demon of greed

ok so how would you suggest i take down a 'nid army with a very durable cc carnifex which has some ability that brings its wounds back, last time i just fed it a combat squad at a time (each squad armed with a flamer so they did some damabe before charging) when all of them died my dred had a turn of shooting with assualt cannon then turn after charged useing heavy flamer. eventualy it did die by loseing all of its wounds but then it regained some. all the while this was going on my assualt marines (with jp) were being washed away slowly by hordes of gaunts although i killed many they just kept coming then came the gene stealers 
but since then i have aquired chappy on bike 2 normal bikes and an attack bike and 5 DC
i think i shall give DC jet packs and let them accompany my other assualt marines hopefuly they will cope better against the hordes 
however i think the 'fex will still be a problem how do you sugest i deal with it?
i will be playing them again soon.


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## bl0203

Kill the Fex with your DC on the charge, their high Initiative and Rending should be enough to finish the beast in a round of combat. It has no invulnerable save so you should be able to put it down before it can attack back. Bring the Chappy and keep him out of B2B to reroll those rending hits for a little insurance. Just becareful of the counter charge or leaving them exposed after the Fex is dead. 

A VET Squad with Thammer and a pair of Meltas to soften it up is capable, however its risky business. We are able to field large amounts of Melta so you can shoot it to death before it gets into close combat. 

Hope this helps, good luck.


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## demon of greed

DC on the fex sounds good will definitly try it thanks and ill have normal assualt marines with jp to escort them and provide a bit of a sheild if i do get counter charged cus then DC can charge in after the others have been attacked thus still getting there extra attack this sounds very good:biggrin: thanks loads


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## bl0203

*Blood Angels Honor Guard*

This is a very interesting/fluffy unit capable of several different roles on the battle field, although in my opinion it is fielded best as a support unit. The biggest mistake I see in setting up the Honor Guard is sinking a large amount of points on this fragile five man unit. 

The way I like to set my unit up is giving them jump packs, a Sanguinary Priest with Power Weapon, and if I have the extra points another Power Weapon. This runs me 200 points and gives me 20 attacks on the charge 8 of them being Power Weapons at initiative. Not to bad when supporting another unit. 

I don’t like running the Power Fist, leave that to your 8 man VET squads, along with the Melta Guns and Flamers. We just don’t have the ablative wounds to spare, and as I said earlier this is a support unit. On to the Company Banner, IMO it is just not worth it. I know I said this was a support unit, however once I explain how I use the unit you’ll better understand. Now if you plan on running Dante then obviously the Chapter Banner is a must for obvious reasons. 

Onto my strategy for using the Honor Guard as a support unit; this unit pushes my spear tip through the heart of my enemy. Normally people run their DC led by a Chaplain which is perfect especially the way rending rules are currently set up. Although I like to put my Chappie with an 8 man VET Squad with Thammer, PW, Melta and Flamer to start, giving me two fearless assault units. There is nothing this squad can’t accomplish IMHO. 

Now here is the trick keep your DC on the outside flank of your Vets with in 6” of the Chappie both units being followed by the Honor Guard. Move these units across the field utilizing cover and rhino escorts to get into close combat. Now if the enemy decides to target your VET’s he needs to pass a Target Priority Test or shoot the DC, additionally you now have two fearless units leading the way so there is no need for a Company Standard for Pinning/Morale checks. 

If the DC is shot so be it, they are pretty resilient to small arms fire with a 3+ save and FNP. However if your using terrain and Rhino escorts right this should not be a problem. Now for the icing on the cake, the Exsanguinator, a trooper falls get him back in the fight! I know it’s only one however this will add up as you march across the field. Additionally those AP1 and 2 weapons, you have the FNP and if you fail one it is saved by the Exsanguinator. Remember you still have to watch out for those Instant Death Heavy Weapons. 

The psychological affect this has on your opponent is great. Remember you still have the rest of your army running around that he has to deal with. This will give you momentum and give your enemy some tough decisions as to what exactly to shoot at and react to giving you the initiative. 

Time for the Assault, move your DC while their under control, and then move your Chaplain into the DC for Litanies. Move Up your Vets to assist or assault another unit in range. Now the fun part, bring up the HG and keep them hidden behind the combat from enemy shooting and start getting the wounded DC/Vets back during your turn and his. It’s nice to see the frustration in your opponents face when you roll up his flank and keep saving those dreaded 30pt DC models. Just be careful of the overkill we don’t want all these units in the open ready to be shot to pieces. 

End game (turn 5/6) your DC/Vet will be battered that’s when you start assaulting with all those power weapons you paid for, or if you can’t wait that long jump in the scrum earlier, to DC/VET saves and your Exsanguisher is paid for. 

Well hope this helps, the bottom line is the HG are a finesse unit and fun to use once you get the hang of them. Of course there are other ways to use this unit, how ever I’ve had good luck with this one.


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## Xaereth

*Multi-Melta Bikes*

I guess I'll add my 2 cents here, since practically nothing has been said about Multi-Melta Attack Bikes.

*Whats the big deal about Melta Bikes?*
Melta Bikes are a common factor in most Blood Angel armies, for the simple reason that they're cheap, mobile, and can pack a pretty hard punch. AP1 means they're guaranteed to penetrate if they do damage, and with T5 and two wounds, they're notiously hard to take down.

*So how many should I take?*
As a general rule, I field at least 5 bikes (one squad of 3, two squads of 1, that way none of them have to take Last Man Standing checks unless your opponent kills two from the big squad). After 5, I generally jump up to 7 or 9, but never 6 or 8, because of the Last Man Standing rule.

*How should I deploy them?*
For deployment, you usually get to put your bikes on the table last, which is always helpful. It's usually good for you to put them behind terrain or cover of some sort, to avoid first turn insta-kills (remember that despite their T5, S8 weapons can still insta-kill a MM bike), but make sure they're positioned so as to make the most of getting first turn. Also, their 24" range makes it sort of imperative that they're near the edge of your deployment zone if you want them to accomplish something first turn. An awesome combo that I make use of quite a bit is Callidus Assassin+Melta Bikes. The assassin comes with an ability to move one unit of your opponents after deployment and before first turn. If you can move their tanks/speeder squadron/heavy armored troop squad out into the open and score first turn, your MM bikes can do some pretty good damage. 

*What else can they do?*
Bikes are awesome for their mobility. If your opponent has a tank hiding behind terrain lobbing shells at you, it usually only takes a turn of turbo-boosting until you're right on top of them. And if they don't want you to kill it (and they won't), they're going to have to contend with a 3+ inv. armor save. A bike with an inv. save can take a heck of a beating, and even if it dies, it most likely soaked up a lot of fire, allowing the rest of your models to advance unscathed.

Another helpful manouver is to move close to an IC and try to instant-death him, if he fails his invulnerable save, he's toast.

*But if I make a take-all-comers army, won't they be useless against horde armies?*
Not at all! I find bikes sometimes MORE helpful against horde armies, because of their ability to halt their momentum. A T5 bike is ridiculously hard for a bunch of S3 orks to hurt, and same with gaunts. Granted, your bike will eventually die, and won't likely take out it's point value, but its value lies in denying momentum armies the charge for a turn. If they can survive the initial turn of combat (and if you charge tactically, you will), it doesn't matter if the bike dies the second round of combat, you stopped their entire army (or at least that flank) from moving up, and allowed your jump marines to get into position to assault and do the real damage. 

*What other armies are they good against?*
Well, all of them.
*Orks*: Like I said, charging a mob until your hard hitters can get there, and denying THEM the charge and momentum they need to win will often get the job done. Against a mek ork army, kill the trucks, or killa kanz, both die pretty darn easy to your 2d6 melta weapons. Another help is turbo-boosting to the Big Mek and charging turn 2, this'll put a big dent in his momentum, as if he wants to use his Mek, he'll have to divert a part of his army to help free him, helping isolate his other units.
*Nids*: About the same thing, only with their gaunts. Another use is to turbo-boost behind the genestealers and keep rapid-firing them, if the bikes get charged and die, thats another turn you DON'T have to deal with genestealers. Also, they do well against nid MC's, since they ignore armor.
*Marines:* Kill tanks (speeders are usually pretty juicy targets as well). And if they don't have tanks, kill terminators. If they have a heavy weapons squad, you can tie them up indefinately with one bike in close combat. Make sure they didn't put a Vet w/ PF in there though!
*Necrons:* Instant-death! Or, kill the destroyers. A decent volley can end a destroyer squad pretty easy. Go for the Heavy Destroyers first. They kill Pariahs pretty well also. One note: don't go for the monolith. Yeah, you'll pen on a 6, but it's really not worth all those shots it'll take to hurt it.
*Chaos:* Instant-death obliterators! Or kill termies. Or tanks. Take your pick
*Imp. Guard:* Charge them if you want, but only after you've taken out their tanks. Bikes can give the guard a LOT of trouble if used correctly.
*Eldar:* Keep shooting their tanks. It may seem like their tanks won't die (usually because they really won't), but if you can keep them shaken and not able to shoot, you're taking away a pretty big asset of their army, and they'll have to rely on ground troops, which BA's don't usually have a HUGE problem with (Baal Predators w/ AP 4 will MURDER eldar squads in the open). No tanks? Kill Wraithguard or even wraithlords, no inv. saves=easy pickins!
*Dark Eldar:* Against a raider rush DE army, there isn't a TON you can really do. Stay in cover and try to shoot down as many of their raiders as possible. Shouldn't be too hard. Against webway armies, I've won the game outright a FEW times by turbo-boosting my bikes to the portal carriers and instant-deathing them with meltas or getting into CC, keeping the portals closed. Keep in mind that if it's an Archon w/ Shadow field, DON'T get into CC, you'll just die. Shoot it with your bolters first, give her a chance to roll a 1, then shoot her with the melta. Other than killing raiders, shooting out-in-the-open DE with twin-linked bolters is often the way to go.*Tau:* Vs. anything with a 2+ armor save, meltas will do the trick. Or even better, charge squads with lots of drones with a lone bike, they won't be able to do anything for a long time. Taking one squad out of the equation for the game is entirely helpful, as Tau rely on massed firepower to be effective. Take away a Crisis Suit team for a few turns and your bike has done it's damage.

*But what about Heavy Bolter bikes?*
Take Baal Predators. MM bikes are too good to pass up, and almost always pack a bigger punch than their HB cousins. For the price of 2.5 HB bikes, you can get a twin linked assault cannon and two heavy bolters, with a decent AV. Trust me, you want the MM.

Thats about what I have, any questions or comments are welcome. Thanks for reading this, hope it helped!


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## ClubnBabySealz

Great Tacticas for a rhino by SoH. manly the blocking of los part.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11448


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## CaptainBailean

This thread seems to have died and I know I'm supposed to start a new one but some of the tips Galahad and Katie talked about in here were simply to good to pass up for future readers so I decided to try and bring this thing back...One of my favorite tactics for breaking up long ranged based armies like Tau or IG is a variation of an armored spearhead. Pack your command squad/Terminators into a Land Raider, preferably a crusader or now a redeemer to capitalize on their frag launchers, follow that close up with a DC Rhino and a Baal Predator and use the tanks as a mobile shield for your Assault and Veteran Assault Marines, use your tactical squads and essentially everything else you have to give as much covering fire power and alternate targets to your enemy as you can. With this tactic it's nice to have a vindicator or a Las cannon toting something to keep your foe worried for the lives' of his tanks and heavy weapons like Tau Broadsides which will die instantly if wounded by one. If you play your cards right you should be able to break open the center of the enemy line and slowly chisel it apart in assault phase after assault phase. If you can break up their army enough, they won't stand a chance at capturing/holding whatever objectives they need to win. If playing Tau, make sure to keep your assault troops out of sight from Vespids, they chew through them faster than the eye can see I learned hat the hard way...


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## JerryDaMouse

This is a tad obvious but it came to mind when I was building my Blood Angels army that normal blood angel tactical squads cost more than normal space marine tactical squads. Is this to make up for the gain in Death company troops? 
Woot! Rending weapons!


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Spot on. The increase cost includes the 'free' death company marine. Nothing is for free


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## Captain Stillios

blood angels are vampires!!


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## JerryDaMouse

So far I'm still working on my army list but I'm really thinking of only including 1 combat squad, since BA TMs just aren't worth it. To make up for troops, I plan on having 2 or 3 squads of scouts and a squad of assault marines.
Back up my army with Mephiston, Corbulo and an honor guard and 7 or 8 Death Company units mounted in a rhino.
I plan on sending Corbulo with my DC in a rhino into the center of the enemies army.
I will then send Corbulo into a flank where I will back him up with my honor guard DS.

My scouts would have infiltrated on the opposite side of the board and bring their snipers and bolters to bear on a flanking unit. Mephisto and his combat unit will mount a razorback (lascannon) and be off towards the scout position where I plan on letting Mephisto get into CC backed up by the scouts. My Razorback will take out any armored vehicles the enemy has. If the RB dies then my assault squad (meltas) will use their jump packs to get to the rear armor of the enemies vehicles.

How does that sound for a battle plan?


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## BrotherYorei

all this info should help. i just started today after reading the rule books many times. i think im going to go with a blood angels based army. i love their fluff and their tactics are great IMO.


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## jebus N the death co

*Possible solution and views*

hey comanderdukestorm one solution for your orky problem can be a baal pred with heavy bolters the 4 rending shots combined with the 3 off each heavy bolter (10shots) from 24" can severly wither down your enamys troops within 2-3 turns depending on dice rolls also possably a dev squad with vareous anti-troop wepons but if ur stuck u cant go to far wrong with ur death co and chaplin slaming into the side of them all them possible rending hits are bound to strike fear into ur enemy and they have feel no pain as well so go 4 it and have fun.

And i would like peoples opinion on my 1000pt army list what u think and any changes to make it better ?
HQ= chaplin + jump paks
elites= 6 man death co and a furioso dread in drop pod
Troop= 2 5man assault squad with jump paks and 1 5man tact squad with melta gun
fast attack= 1 landspeeder tornado with assault cannon and multi-melta
heavy support= baal pred

I mainly use this army by tact sq on table with land speed and baal and deep strike the rest in.

All comments will be appreceatedk:


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## raverboi

i have actually had a lot of success with 10 men tactical squads split up into combat squads, i put the lascannon and plasmagun somewhere they can shoot tanks and the scarier things in the other army, and send the vety sarge with a plaspistol up to take objectives

multimelta bikes are filled with win, take as many as you can against tank heavy armies, but trade them out for HB if your facing nids or orks


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## Haekmo

JerryDaMouse said:


> So far I'm still working on my army list but I'm really thinking of only including 1 combat squad, since BA TMs just aren't worth it. To make up for troops, I plan on having 2 or 3 squads of scouts and a squad of assault marines.


i dont field termies but when u take into account the free dc, they are deffenetly worth there points, if they can fit ur tactics. as for scout sqd's, they take up a elite spot and you dont get a so called "free" DC. 
boo to scouts imo.


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## Lone

so what would you guys suggest?

Assault Termies 
4 LC's
Sarge with TH / SS

or 

Gun Termies
Assault Cannon


I have a tank hunting unit in my Honour Guard with 2 Melta-Guns, 2 Power Fists, and 2 Melta-bombs (on the melta-gun guys). CC unit in my VAS. 8 Marines w/ 2 Power fists and a TH. and 2 10 Man Combat Squaded Assault Marines each with a PF sarge, along with a 5 man Jumppack DC with Lemartes.


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## aceshigh22

Hey, first post here guys so go easy!

I need help beating my mate and his Ork army, we've fought a few battles in the past and I've never beaten him  We'll be fighting again soon and I need to win or else there's just no point living any more really haha. He's told me what he plans on using, but I have no idea how I should go about fighting this and was hoping you guys could offer me some advice. His List

HQ: 2 Big Meks with Cybork Body, Power Claw, Kustom Force Field - 120pts each

Troops: 2 Deff Dreads with 2 extra close combat arms, Grot Riggers and Armour Plates - 120pts each

Elites: 2 Nobz Squads, each with 9 nobz, 1 painboy, 3x Power Claw, 6x Big Choppa, 9x Cybork Body, Whaagh Banner - 395pts each

Storm Boyz, 1 Nob with Big Choppa, Eavy Armour, 9 boyz - 140pts

Heavy Support: 2 Battle Wagons each with Killcannon, Ard Case, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Armour Plates, Zzap Gun, 4 Rokkit Launchas, Wreking ball - 245pts each

Looted Wagon with Boomgun - 105pts

It works out at 2005pts. My BA army so far:

HQ: Mephiston - 225pts
Lemartes - 125pts
10 x Death Company with Jump Packs (4 free by my count) - 230pts

Troops: 2 x 10 man Tactical Squad with Flamer and Misslie Launcher - 205pts each

Elites: 10 man Vet Assault Squad with 2 Flamers, 1 Power Weapons and a Power Fist - 325pts
DC Furioso Dreadnought - 125pts

Heavy Support: Devastator Squad with 4 Heavy Bolters - 200pts
Baal Predator with Twin Linked Assault Cannon and 2 Heavy Bolters - 150pts
Whirlwind - 85pts

Overall this comes to 1875, so I am 130 points behind him. What should I add and change to this list? Any particular tactics I should think about using?

I know this is a long post but any help at all would be much appreciated 

Thanks!


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## Katie Drake

lulz

You're going to have an insanely easy time beating him in 2/3rds of the games you play since the Deff Dreads can't capture objectives despite being Troops. If you guys aren't playing any of the scenarios from the 40K rulebook, I suggest you start as they're written to be as balanced as possible for both sides. The scenarios punish armies that don't make the best of their Troop choices, so he's going to suffer very badly.

As for your own list, it's not bad but it could use a little work. If you post it up in the Space Marine army list section I'll give you a hand on tweaking it to give you the best chance of taking out the filthy greenskins.


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## aceshigh22

Thanks man 

Nah we haven't been playing those scenarios, sounds like we're going to have to if I'm to stand any chance haha

I'll post my army list in that section now, thanks again for the help!


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## bloodanglesassault

I hve 1 thng 2 say...

ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT!!!


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## bloodanglesassault

Add an Assault squad(5 man) and giv em melta bombs for the wagons!


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## ashers

*buildin and winnin*

hey hey i really need some help!! just startin warhammer 40k again and wantin to do blood angels

i need to know wats the best troops and hq to get 
i really want sanqunior and his gurad cos i love the look of them!!

but the rest no idea!!

my friends hav got
orks
dark eldar army
and tyrainds (not lookin forward takin them on)

any help?


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## Only~In~Death

I was looking for a little help on how the Black Rage works in the new Codex for DC can some one help me out with this?


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Only~In~Death said:


> I was looking for a little help on how the Black Rage works in the new Codex for DC can some one help me out with this?


It's all explained on page 44 of the Blood Angels Codex, at the bottom of the Death Company's entry.


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## Kalshinko

I did a few videos on my fealing on the BA, only got through the HQ section due to lack of interest but here is the first part.


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