# Devastator Squad



## Iron Eagle (Jun 18, 2009)

Hi people.

Some weeks ago I purchased a box of Space Marines Devastator Squad. I have some doubts. 
1) How can I use better the weapons against troops ?
2) How can I use the weapons against tanks / vehicles??

The box contains 02 lascannons, 02 plasma cannons, 01 Heavy Bolter, 01 Multi Melta and 01 Rocket Launcher. :dunno: 
Could you help me??


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I took the heavy weapons and spread them around my tactical squads. I've got a bunch of missile launchers that I'm kind of thinking of making into a devastator squad.

The actual box doesn't really come with a great configuration for a devastator squad. It's a bit odd in that way. You are best thinking of it as a really good selection of guns to use with all your units.


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## rdlb (Nov 30, 2008)

I love a four missile launcher devastator squad, I use it all the time, great against vehicles/MCs, great against hordes. I got these from the Tac Squad boxes,

Like someguy I then put the heavy bolter and multimelta in my tac squads, kind of a switcheroo.

I used 2 lascannons in a sternguard squad. Very affordable extra heavy weapons. I play very very very shooty marines at the moment, so I want all these heavy weapons.

I think general practice is to keep all the weapons in the squad the same to maximize effectiveness. Also you can have a ten man squad with 2 las and 2 plasma, and combat squad them so you have one unit of las, and one unit of plasma, with extra wounds.

Hope that made sense. I love devastators, good luck with them.


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## Longinus (Apr 21, 2008)

I try to build a marine for every heavy weapon(and special) first then I build the bolter guy. When you have all the heavy weapons you want I you will most of the time have to mix them with tac squad since they dont get PC/HB/MM/LC. 

My set up for devastators is the standard you will get every were, 4 ML or 4 HB or 2 ML and 2 HB but it realy works, the 4 ML line up is the way I usally go since you get both horde killing and some desent AT power. The PC and the LC I usally run in tac squads since its to expensive to effectively run in a devestator squad(there are some builds where you mix a PC and 3 ML to get some TEQ killing, so Im not saying that you should not run BC or LC ever in a devastator squad it just that four of those weapons in one squad is a point sink). 

And last the poor ol' MM, never seen one fielded in a devastator squad before.

Note: I instead of running 4 HB devastator squad, I go for three HB attack bikes. If you combat squad you HB you get 2 HB and 5W, now I get a squadron of attack bikes with HB for roughly the same amount of points the combat squad cost I get 3 HB, 6W, 4(5)T and I can move and shoot all weapons, the only real back draw is that they have a hard time to find cover but I think its worth it.


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## Crimson_Chin (Feb 20, 2009)

The HB attack bikes are generally better for the movement, I don't run HB devastators because I like templates better for killing masses of troops. I use the ML squad, or the plasma squad if I'm feeling frisky; you can get HB in other places, but ML and plasma cannon are harder to come by. Yeah, it's 40 more points, but having that many ap2 small blast makes it even better vs hordes (higher str, wounds more), and makes everyone think twice about getting close to them. It also makes them a very high priority target, so expect to lose quite a few of them (if not all of them). The plus is, against elite units they nearly always make their points back in a round or two of shooting.


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## ArmoredGhost (Aug 18, 2008)

Just curious, how many per squad do you use? I was told to take two marines per heavy weapon, I suppose thats a decent tactic.


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## Iron Eagle (Jun 18, 2009)

I was thinking about this configuration :

Devastor Squad

02 marines with heavy bolter
01 marine with Missle laucher 
01 Sargeant with plasma pistol and chainsword
01 marine with plasma cannon

The main idea is using this squad against troops.
What do you think??


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

what kind of troops?

Geq, Meq or Teq?
cause if your facing Geq then plasma anything is A: too powerful and B: too dangerous, your gambling an 30pt+ (educated guess, not actual) model for the chance to kill some 10pt or lower models


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

That set up actually sounds fine. You would have a pretty good way to attack most units.

It wouldn't be any use against vehicles, which is a problem if you don't have AT elsewhere. In general missile launchers are always a better option than heavy bolters really, but there's only one missile launcher in the box.


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## Iron Eagle (Jun 18, 2009)

ArmoredGhost said:


> Just curious, how many per squad do you use? I was told to take two marines per heavy weapon, I suppose thats a decent tactic.


Oh boy, I forgot to say. My squads are made of ten marines.


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## Iron Eagle (Jun 18, 2009)

lawrence96 said:


> what kind of troops?
> 
> Geq, Meq or Teq?
> cause if your facing Geq then plasma anything is A: too powerful and B: too dangerous, your gambling an 30pt+ (educated guess, not actual) model for the chance to kill some 10pt or lower models


I'm thinking of facing Orks, Tau and Chaos.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

In that case, 4 MLs. While I'm unashamedly critical of anyone who ever uses Devvys, at all, this is almost certainly the best, and most cost-effective, line-up. Against Orks, it's good. Against Tau, good. Against Chaos, good. It's not for nothing the ML is the Heavy Weapon of choice for many armies in 5th. 

Also, buy them a Rhino.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Iron Eagle said:


> I'm thinking of facing Orks, Tau and Chaos.


I'd say 2HB, 1 Plasma, and 1 Missile launcher is good enough then (what you said you were taking).
In fact, I was rather surprised because that's exactly what I was thinking of taking on a squad :S

The HB are good against Tau, it negates their armour and will make them think twice about getting in LOS or close.
The Plasma is great against marines, and it's only about a 5% chance of death every time you fire (yes yes ONLY??, but it's very low for such a good weapon).
The missile will add some anti-tank to the group, making people not want their transports to rush out, even though it's a low chance of killing it, it's still a chance they don't want to take. It will also be good against Orks, if they like horde then they'll have a hard time sticking in cover, and the blast will make that time harder as they want to spread out.

I would recommend taking a squad of Scouts or Assault marines nearby, ready to charge any close enemies, and ready to take an assault from a FAST unit, like Raveners, Hormagaunts, Rough Riders, Bikes, etc.

And also, never fire the Plasma cannon at a vehicle unless it either REALLY needs to die, or you've got an AV10 facing.
It's just not worth the risk.


Remember when you're using them, use the Signum, BS5 on a missile launcher is not to be underestimated, or on a heavy bolter against squishies.

And take, maybe 8 models, or a full squad.
Depends on what else you have in your army.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I think it's more like 7%, and, again, never ever mix weapons like that - you reduce the effectiveness of the unit. If an AV12 vehicle HAS to die, and you fire them, 2 of the Heavies are already useless, one glances on a 5, the other on a 4. Blast weapons are also far too inaccurate to reliably be used against vehicles, solid shots are always better for this role, except perhaps BS3 or less. Each unit in your army needs to be as good at its job as possible - and mixing a hodgepodge of weapons doesn't achieve this.


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## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

i run 4 hvy bolters or 4 missile launchers sometimes 1 of each very nice combo 7 man squad with MOF in ruins nasty firebase


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> I think it's more like 7%, and, again, never ever mix weapons like that - you reduce the effectiveness of the unit. If an AV12 vehicle HAS to die, and you fire them, 2 of the Heavies are already useless, one glances on a 5, the other on a 4. Blast weapons are also far too inaccurate to reliably be used against vehicles, solid shots are always better for this role, except perhaps BS3 or less. Each unit in your army needs to be as good at its job as possible - and mixing a hodgepodge of weapons doesn't achieve this.


Well 16.66% divided by 3 is 5.55.


I guess so, I suppose it'd be best to leave Plasma cannon and Lascannon to the Tactical squad, because it's cheaper.

So 2 HB and 2 Missiles, or 1 HB and 3 Missiles would be better
In LARGE games yeah, having specialised squads is ideal, but in smaller games sometimes you don't have the points.

Lascannon, I don't like the idea of taking them on marines, I just don't.
Sure, they're better than a ML against tanks and MC, but they're crap against infantry.
Like, they're good and all, but I just don't have enough squads to take one.
I'd prefer a Plasma cannon, and leaving the anti-tank to meltas.
In apocalypse of course you'd take them though.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

In Apoc they're less important, lol. Nothing's ever out of Melta range! 
In all honesty, I don't think anything should _ever _take Heavy Bolters, unless it has an AV.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> In Apoc they're less important, lol. Nothing's ever out of Melta range!
> In all honesty, I don't think anything should _ever _take Heavy Bolters, unless it has an AV.


Why not?
With the BS of a space marine, it makes for quite a powerful weapon.
And not too expensive either.

Seriously, of those 12 shots, 8 will hit, (againts orks and IG respectively) about 6 and 7 will wound, and those all die.
They're powerful guns.

Given, Missile launchers have the POTENTIAL to do more against infantry if they're closely clustered, but often will do significantly less.
But I do suppose the anti-tank potential is good.


I say in one Devastator squad, 2 HB and 2 ML would be great.
Superb anti-infantry firepower, and decent anti-tank too.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Simply because they aren't better, point for point, than the alternatives at the same points. They don't offer anything a ML can't do.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Simply because they aren't better, point for point, than the alternatives at the same points. They don't offer anything a ML can't do.


I guess, but they're so cooooool!
I'd still prefer them, a smart enemy would space their units, and blast weapons still always have a fair chance of missing completely.
I think 2 HB, and 2 ML would be a great unit.
Or an HB and a Plasma cannon...


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## Crimson_Chin (Feb 20, 2009)

@Winterous - I run the 4 man ML squad, and trust me, if they space their units I'm getting just as many hits. Cause then it means that anything that hits dead on doesn't get quite as many buggers, but the scatters are FAR more likely to get hits.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Crimson_Chin said:


> @Winterous - I run the 4 man ML squad, and trust me, if they space their units I'm getting just as many hits. Cause then it means that anything that hits dead on doesn't get quite as many buggers, but the scatters are FAR more likely to get hits.


Weeeeea'keoa;245
But, Heavy Bolters D:
I like the models


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## Crimson_Chin (Feb 20, 2009)

They're pretty. I know. Resist the urge.

Use the for imperial guard, instead of getting a LR punisher put 4 HB marines on top of a chimera and call it a day.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Crimson_Chin said:


> They're pretty. I know. Resist the urge.
> 
> Use the for imperial guard, instead of getting a LR punisher put 4 HB marines on top of a chimera and call it a day.


T_T
Wouldn't one with BS5 be better than a ML?
What about in Tac squads?

So, the 5 heavy weapons, when are they appropriate?
My thoughts.

HB: Good in Tac squads as a buff to anti-infantry power.
ML: Good in Tac and Dev squads as a balanced weapon.
MM: Good in Tac squads which get close to the enemy.
LC: Only good in Tac squads, because they're so expensive for Devs, great anti-vehicle.
Plasma cannon: Great in either, not particularly expensive for Devs.

Correct?
So uh, is 4 ML really the best outfit for a Devastator squad?
Wouldn't 2 Plasma and 2 Missiles be good?


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## Andizzo (Feb 9, 2008)

when makin a Dev squad i find it best to use 4 guns that have same range. e.g 2 plasma cannons, 2 heavy bolters or 2 lascannon and 2 missile launchers.(i play wolfs so kinda a different story)
so mix the guns but keep the range categorys so your 36" and 48" i think it is, when they all can sit at range and shoot. havin a missile luancher next to a plasma cannon realy beats the purpose of havbing that extra range


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Ok, probably the most important thing to know.
Are Lascannon on Devastator squads too expensive for what they do, or are they worth it?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Too expensive. Also, HBs are crap in Tacs. Tacs should be in Rhinos, so they should be able to take out enemy Rhinos - ML or MM are also free, so no loss. You only ever get out if you have to/will destroy the only threat.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Too expensive. Also, HBs are crap in Tacs. Tacs should be in Rhinos, so they should be able to take out enemy Rhinos - ML or MM are also free, so no loss. You only ever get out if you have to/will destroy the only threat.


I don't think they NEED to be in Rhinos.
In fact, I think having a whole army mounted in Rhinos is kinda cheap.
Not abusive cheap, just not fun to play against.

Tac squads do have gunline potential, they give decent anti-infantry firepower at a distance, and with a cheap (or free) heavy weapon they can do some damage to specialised targets.
Am I to go by the assumption that Plasma cannon and Lascannon are best left to Tactical squads, where they are horrendously cheap?
Yeah, I guess having a few squads with a Lascannon or Plasma cannon would be great.

So, you say just spam Missile launchers in a Devastator squad?
Fair enough, I think I'd still take 1 Heavy Bolter though, or at least try it out.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Actually, I recommend never ever using Devvy squads in competitive play. But if you do, ML all around. Las and Plas are best in Tacs, yes. As a general rule, gunlines fail. If you win 1/3 of your games, ie Annihilation, then great, except you _don't_ win 2/3 of the time, so you need to change something. Armies need to be mobile. 40k has finally caught up with reality in this regard.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Actually, I recommend never ever using Devvy squads in competitive play. But if you do, ML all around. Las and Plas are best in Tacs, yes. As a general rule, gunlines fail. If you win 1/3 of your games, ie Annihilation, then great, except you _don't_ win 2/3 of the time, so you need to change something. Armies need to be mobile. 40k has finally caught up with reality in this regard.


Oh I don't like gunlines at all, I HATE them.
They ruin the game, and they're so tactically useless.
It's good that in 5th edition objectives are the primary concern, in 4th half the missions were "Kill shit. Go on, what are you still doing here?".

But yeah, I'd trudge some of them forward a bit, get a good LOS going with their Baby Cannon, and blow some tanks into the sky.
I didn't mean Baby Cannon as in shoots babies, I meant it as a term of endearment :S


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Aww.. can't CSM's have a gun that shoots explosive Babies?

Orks have a gun that shoots gretchen ( I think, or some other lower form of orkish life )


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> Aww.. can't CSM's have a gun that shoots explosive Babies?
> 
> Orks have a gun that shoots gretchen ( I think, or some other lower form of orkish life )


Ok, from now on the Blastmaster is the Baby Cannon.


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## rdlb (Nov 30, 2008)

The Sternguard with two lascannons and the Devs with 4 ML that I run both have rhinos now for several reasons--

First, in Dawn of War they can move 12" in from the board edge and then run, instead of six and run. 

Second, template weapons are the worst (read "STUPID SOULGRINDER!!!) and this way my Terminators are the only ones without a transport for template protection, and two weapons can still fire out of the top if sitting still, so this is especially good for the sternguard with only two heavy weapons. 

Third, I like being able to move them quickly if their original firing lane has been blocked by a wreck or other tactic, instead of just having them walk/run to a new firing position. 

Fourth, the Rhinos can be used separately to block line of sight to these squads, or to fill up DS zones for lovely daemons, drop pods, etc.

These things make my heavy weapons squads more useful and durable, which I've learned by playing many games with them with and without Rhinos. I do play for fun, and the big guns are fun, this way I can use them and still have some mobility and chance at winning.

If you interested here's my list

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=420555#post420555


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## rdlb (Nov 30, 2008)

edit...sorry somehow posted twice


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Rhinos have become a hugely important part of Marine armies, and yes, they are one of the upgrades I rate as "Necessary" alongside Powerfists on the Sarge. I'm thankful for that as well, high mobility, hard hitting, tough squads? Sounds realistic enough for me.


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## skate4life (Jul 14, 2009)

my mate had 3 dev squads all with missle launchers and 2 tac sqauds with 1 missle launcher each i had 15 krak missles into my land rader carring my termies 

they dident fair to well


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

15 Kraks = 10 hits = maybe 2 glances. Hardly awesome.

MLs can't realistically hurt AV14.


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## Addiction (Jul 19, 2009)

When I buy devastators I make all the heavy weapons in the box. Like in my large case I currently have 23 heavy weapons. Which allows me to mix and match between Dev and Tac squads in pretty much any set of circumstances.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me to ever use devastators. Any gun they can take, with the possible exception of plasma cannons, something else can take on a mobile platform for comparable points values. Most people seem to be agreed that 4 missile launchers is the best value for a devastator squad, but this unit just seems far worse than taking 2 typhoons. Once you take the rhino and the guys you have to just buy as wounds, the devastators are more expensive for static guns.

Heavy support provides things like vindicators, which are cheap and effective. Even the thunderfire cannon actually looks quite good in comparison with devastators; certainly in terms of firepower per point spent. Things like multi-melta devastators just seem laughable when compared to attack bikes.


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## Addiction (Jul 19, 2009)

Someguy said:


> I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me to ever use devastators. Any gun they can take, with the possible exception of plasma cannons, something else can take on a mobile platform for comparable points values. Most people seem to be agreed that 4 missile launchers is the best value for a devastator squad, but this unit just seems far worse than taking 2 typhoons. Once you take the rhino and the guys you have to just buy as wounds, the devastators are more expensive for static guns.
> 
> Heavy support provides things like vindicators, which are cheap and effective. Even the thunderfire cannon actually looks quite good in comparison with devastators; certainly in terms of firepower per point spent. Things like multi-melta devastators just seem laughable when compared to attack bikes.


I like this reasoning. Even with the heavy weapons I have I have yet to field a dev squad, in fact I just made my first list with Devs in it (as defender in PS).


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## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

I have fielded 4 PC devastators with immense success. Stacking so many wounds on one squad is ridiculous. Even against armies where the AP value or ST might be unneccesary, such as against orks, they are amazing. I knocked out 20 something ork boys from a big mob in one round of shooting with just this one squad. And 30 deepstriking termie chaos lists will simply cry when you face them. Stacking 20 wounds on a 10 man squad of termies (quite possible when they are bunched up) is just nasty. I took down such a list with minimal loss to myself because of my devvy squad.


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## Devinstater (Dec 9, 2008)

I bought a Devastator back when I had just started. I don't regret it, because the weapons are great for adding to tac squads so you have one of everything available. However, in terms of static fire-support, I find them worse then almost every other option.

If you want the Dev's to have a heavy ranged punch, you can replace them with Dreadnoughts that sacrifice their close combat arm for a missile launcher, and it is much more durable to a charge. (These can be made to be a Hvy Support slot with the inclusion of a Master of the Forge.)

If you wanted cheap mass fire such as four ML's, Typhoon Landspeeders are better.

Both these options can move and shoot, which is fantastic.

Even Sternguard are better to an extent if they can carry the weapons you want, because the extra wound guys have all that sweet special ammo.

Especially in 5th, when you own models give cover, sometimes you just need the ability to move a little bit to deny your target their saves.


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## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

I've been wondering about how to equip my Devastator squad myself for a while...It's the only unit I haven't put together yet. I'm most likely going to get 4 missile launchers in to them and use my spare Marine parts to give my Tactical squads heavy bolter options. My chapter is very shooty for the most part, but I gave them flamers to discourage my Ork friend a bit. With others fielding other shooty armies I'll need the bolters.

I bought my Dev squad with a Razorback with a D-Linked Lascannon but am working on a custom close range turret to replace if needed. But in all honesty I may use the Razorback, if at all, for just an HQ transport or even as a stand in Rhino. Though I of course haven't used it yet.


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## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

4 plasma cannons all the way. I have had these things work so well for me... it's ridiculous.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

maniclurker said:


> 4 plasma cannons all the way. I have had these things work so well for me... it's ridiculous.


Yes, it's a very effective loadout; but I think it's too wasteful in points.
Sure the only difference between putting it on a Tac squad and Dev squad (including the 15 point base for the 'free' guns) is 5 points, but it adds up.
In addition, Plasma Cannon are kinda limited in their effectiveness, that squad will destroy infantry, but come to a stop against any decent vehicle.

Missile launchers don't have that restriction.
Although I agree, Plasma Cannon are _sweet_, I think they're probably best left to Tac squads, where they can add that extra kick, and be split up in targetting.

Alternatively, 3 Missile launchers and 1 Plasma cannon, I think that's a pretty good loadout.
Solid anti-vehicle.
Great anti-infantry.
Can deal with 2+ armour enemies quite well enough.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Plasma Cannons are best left in the sprue.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Plasma Cannons are best left in the sprue.


What?
WHY??
They're incredible!
And on Tac squads only 5 points, so that's great!


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## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

Actually, winterous, one of the reasons that make plasma cannon devvies so amazing is that they stack their wounds at the same time, which means your opponent doesn't get to thin out his ranks after each of the tac squads shoot a plasma cannon... you get to target that same cluster of 4 guys each time...


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

maniclurker said:


> Actually, winterous, one of the reasons that make plasma cannon devvies so amazing is that they stack their wounds at the same time, which means your opponent doesn't get to thin out his ranks after each of the tac squads shoot a plasma cannon... you get to target that same cluster of 4 guys each time...


Aah yes, true.
I can see that that would be quite, well, *Devastating!*
*chortle* I'm such a witty old chap


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