# GW and EBay



## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Just heard a rumour doing the rounds that GW will now target the online market on EBay, apparently as yet only a rumour that GW will force EBay to remove auctions and buy it now sales on EBay.

Apparently the rumour is that GW considers this to be a breech of Intellectual Property.

Has anyone heard anything.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Im going to assume this is one of those joke threads...


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

GW can restrict the FLGS, but I'm pretty sure they'd hit a snag if they tried to target eBay sales. Now, UK FLGS selling through eBay might be something else...

Phil


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

GW really do have a death wish. They treat their customers like fools and milk them for everything they can get. If this is true, then E-Bay is out as my source of less pricey kit. My only other (cheap) way of getting kit is via bootsales, and GW kit is getting rarer and rarer so that is hit and miss


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

No, GW can ask Ebay to remove anything that is a breach of its copyright so they can ask for thinks like "can be used for 40k" to be removed or "like warhammer" where the item for sale is not a GW product , they can also ask for anything that is using a stock photo to be removed if the seller has not been granted permission to use the image.But this has always been the case and is the case for any company who is part of the ebay VERO programme.

Simple internet scaremongery.

also bear in mind that ebay does not police its own site unless prompted so unless GW are going to employ an army of people to report every single listing that breaches the VERO terms its highly unlikely anything will happen.


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## IntereoVivo (Jul 14, 2009)

Right, but they cannot force ebay to remove my auction for my army, complete with my pictures. So really, there isn't much to worry about.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

IntereoVivo said:


> Right, but they cannot force ebay to remove my auction for my army, complete with my pictures. So really, there isn't much to worry about.


Not unless you have in someway broken any of the ebay listing rules or breached GW copyright,to be honest ebay selling is a minefield and the longer it goes on the harder it is to make any money on it, but its less risky these days because of tighter rules on listing. But peoples ebay listings get removed all the time and quite often its people who are selling the same thing that are reporting listings of competitors.

should have mentioned also as we have a captive audience, keep your wits about you when buying on ebay, rules are much tighter, but there are still people able to fleece the trusting buyer given half a chance and the warhammer and wargaming sections are no safer than other sections of ebay, ebay is a very easy place to sell fakes if you dont know what your looking for and i think that will only get worse with the fine cast stuff as it will be much harder to spot home cast resin fakes.

If anyone needs any help with ebay PM and i will try to help you


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> unless GW are going to employ an army of people to report every single listing that breaches the VERO terms its highly unlikely anything will happen.


They seem to be throwing money and the consumer base down the shitter so this is plausible to me. They could force all their employees to find an ebay auction per day that breaches their IP and if they dont they get fired.
This sounds like a completely reasonable thing GW would do...


If the ebay market goes so does 90% of my GW purchases, I spent way too much money on this hobby so maybe that would be a good thing for me in the long run...

Dont GW have a policy that their products can't be sold as bits on ebay or bits in general?


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

MadCowCrazy said:


> They seem to be throwing money and the consumer base down the shitter so this is plausible to me. They could force all their employees to find an ebay auction per day that breaches their IP and if they dont they get fired.
> This sounds like a completely reasonable thing GW would do...
> 
> 
> ...


Well the first part is utter crap - sorry, I dont regularly say things like that, but at the moment a rumour could start that GW were using kittens blood in the manufacturing process and someone would believe it. Jeeze, they arent the anti christ for gods sake.

If they have a policy that you cant sell bits, well frankly, they arent doing anything to enforce that as there are at least 2 companies I can think of that sell bits on very proffesional websites that are highly visable.


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

bitsandkits said:


> No, GW can ask Ebay to remove anything that is a breach of its copyright so they can ask for thinks like "can be used for 40k" to be removed or "like warhammer" where the item for sale is not a GW product , they can also ask for anything that is using a stock photo to be removed if the seller has not been granted permission to use the image.But this has always been the case and is the case for any company who is part of the ebay VERO programme.
> 
> Simple internet scaremongery.
> 
> also bear in mind that ebay does not police its own site unless prompted so unless GW are going to employ an army of people to report every single listing that breaches the VERO terms its highly unlikely anything will happen.


Not so sure about scaremongery. It's wouldn't take a lot of man-hour to spot Wayland's or Maelstrom's eBay store and then send letters saying they don't respect their trade agreement. As much as buying from individual might give great bargains, I like to be able to order "new in box" stuff from retailers. Now, of course, eBay might make enough money on GW items stores to tell GW to backoff, but I'd be very surprised. Even if by anyone's standard's it might be a lot, by eBay, it's like a drop in an ocean. On the other hand, eBay might not want to open a breach for all companies that have eBay retailers.

Phil


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

MadCowCrazy said:


> Don't GW have a policy that their products can't be sold as bits on ebay or bits in general?


It seems highly dubious that they could or have any right to regulate what people do with their own property. Once a customer buys from GW - I believe GW ceases to have rights over how the product is handled. With the exception that a seller can't use a GW photo or image to sell it.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Maidel said:


> Well the first part is utter crap - sorry, I dont regularly say things like that, but at the moment a rumour could start that GW were using kittens blood in the manufacturing process and someone would believe it. Jeeze, they arent the anti christ for gods sake.
> 
> If they have a policy that you cant sell bits, well frankly, they arent doing anything to enforce that as there are at least 2 companies I can think of that sell bits on very proffesional websites that are highly visable.


Oh how deluded you are, they don't use kitten blood they use the innards of the cutest most snuggly wuggly bunny wabbits:shok:


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> Oh how deluded you are, they don't use kitten blood they use the innards of the cutest most snuggly wuggly bunny wabbits:shok:


Sorry. My mistake.

Anyone taking bets as to how long before this becomes a rumour on warseer? :biggrin:


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

I am going to chalk this one up to unhappy individuals with to much time on their hands. I feel this would be very difficult to police and would start another round a GW hate...and on the heels of the last three messages it could really do some more PR damage to them.


Doc


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm all for a bit of mild GW bashing, but this is rubbish on so many levels, I don't know where to start...so I won't!


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## Tzeen Qhayshek (May 4, 2010)

Kreuger said:


> It seems highly dubious that they could or have any right to regulate what people do with their own property. Once a customer buys from GW - I believe GW ceases to have rights over how the product is handled.


I actually believe that is false. Aren't conversions technically "illegal" according to GW's IP policy?


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Tzeen Qhayshek said:


> I actually believe that is false. Aren't conversions technically "illegal" according to GW's IP policy?


Well that would be ridiculous considering the golden daemon awards...


What they do have as 'illegal' is using lotrs bits on the 40K/fantasy range.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Tzeen Qhayshek said:


> I actually believe that is false. Aren't conversions technically "illegal" according to GW's IP policy?


Not in the least bit, why would glueing the arm of a Genestealer onto a Space Marine be illegal?

The moment you try and reproduce anything made by GW then you might get in trouble, if you then go on to try and sell these reproductions, then you're in bigger trouble. If in any way you try and insinuate that anything you have made yourself is in any way endorsed by or related to GW IP then you are Chapter House and you get sued.


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## Tzeen Qhayshek (May 4, 2010)

Maidel said:


> Well that would be ridiculous considering the golden daemon awards...
> 
> 
> What they do have as 'illegal' is using lotrs bits on the 40K/fantasy range.


Your second sentence makes sense. I think I just might have confused it with that.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Tzeen Qhayshek said:


> Your second sentence makes sense. I think I just might have confused it with that.


It breaks their agreement with newline cinema, basically they didnt want GW producing a whole range of new fantasy minatures which GW could then simply 'rebrand' as Warhammer fantasy and cut them out of any royalties.

I think its the same reason as why lotrs is so strict to the 28mm scale, whereas 40K and fantasy have wandered off through 32mm and now to 35mm+


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## Overbear (May 10, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> No, GW can ask Ebay to remove anything that is a breach of its copyright so they can ask for thinks like "can be used for 40k" to be removed or "like warhammer" where the item for sale is not a GW product , they can also ask for anything that is using a stock photo to be removed if the seller has not been granted permission to use the image.But this has always been the case and is the case for any company who is part of the ebay VERO programme.
> 
> Simple internet scaremongery.
> 
> also bear in mind that ebay does not police its own site unless prompted so unless GW are going to employ an army of people to report every single listing that breaches the VERO terms its highly unlikely anything will happen.


and the way around all of that is, for someone (say a GW vender) to open the box, take pictures, then put the add up as "NOB(new open box)" and price it at what they feel is right. Then GW has nothing they can say or do about it, because it is now fair use because ebay is based out of the US. I love US laws on fair use


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Overbear said:


> and the way around all of that is, for someone (say a GW vender) to open the box, take pictures, then put the add up as "NOB(new open box)" and price it at what they feel is right. Then GW has nothing they can say or do about it, because it is now fair use because ebay is based out of the US. I love US laws on fair use


That has nothing to do with what he was saying tho.

What he was saying was that many ebay sales use the GW stock picture taken directly from the GW website - and that is the issue.

Im not really sure where you were going with that.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

I say this is a trully bogus statment made to further make GW look bad because of the recent issues invovled with them lately.

I did some digging and the last know source for anything of this nature is actully dated way back in 2010. The only most recent lawsuit involving GW is toward some Warhammer online site


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

boreas said:


> Not so sure about scaremongery. It's wouldn't take a lot of man-hour to spot Wayland's or Maelstrom's eBay store and then send letters saying they don't respect their trade agreement.
> Phil


Well as far as i know (after looking at both of there Ebay stores) they dont sell GW items on Ebay, they sell other stuff from other systems, but they no longer sell GW on there.


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

fynn said:


> Well as far as i know (after looking at both of there Ebay stores) they dont sell GW items on Ebay, they sell other stuff from other systems, but they no longer sell GW on there.


Hum! Quite true!

Phil


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Companies like Hoard of Bits (American company) will not be able to sell to Europe, Asia etc. Registered companies will be hit exactly the same whether they sell on eBay or they have their own website.

This is probably what started the rumor. They can't touch regular consumers reselling their used stuff.


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

GW already fucked with Ebay a couple of years ago to prevent sales of kit from online traders and stores. There is not one damned thing they can do about private sales unless they can prove that the items being sold are counterfeit. Once you buy your bit of GW product it is yours to do with as you will (except replicating it in standard format for the express purposes of selling it - i.e. Counterfeiting).

Of course Warsewer will have this as gospel by the end of the day, but please guys...don't be so gullible.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Cypher871 said:


> GW already fucked with Ebay a couple of years ago to prevent sales of kit from online traders and stores. There is not one damned thing they can do about private sales unless they can prove that the items being sold are counterfeit. Once you buy your bit of GW product it is yours to do with as you will (except replicating it in standard format for the express purposes of selling it - i.e. Counterfeiting).
> 
> Of course Warsewer will have this as gospel by the end of the day, but please guys...don't be so gullible.


I agree. Once you purcahse a product it is now yours to do what you like with it . If you wanna resale it so be it.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Companies like Hoard of Bits (American company) will not be able to sell to Europe, Asia etc. Registered companies will be hit exactly the same whether they sell on eBay or they have their own website.


Is there any reason to believe this is accurate? 

I doubt sellers like Hoard of Bits have signed an agreement with GW. They are part of the secondary market so free of GW's regulations, unless there is a provision perhaps from eBay limiting what countries they could ship to - but that also seems suspect.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Kreuger said:


> Is there any reason to believe this is accurate?
> 
> I doubt sellers like Hoard of Bits have signed an agreement with GW. They are part of the secondary market so free of GW's regulations, unless there is a provision perhaps from eBay limiting what countries they could ship to - but that also seems suspect.


I suppose it depends on if they are buying from GW at retail or wholesale prices. If they buy as normal from shops/online then they would be free to do whatever they want - if they get a wholesaler discount, then they need to abide by GWs cross region sales rules.



Cypher871 said:


> GW already fucked with Ebay a couple of years ago to prevent sales of kit from online traders and stores. There is not one damned thing they can do about private sales unless they can prove that the items being sold are counterfeit. Once you buy your bit of GW product it is yours to do with as you will (except replicating it in standard format for the express purposes of selling it - i.e. Counterfeiting).
> 
> Of course Warsewer will have this as gospel by the end of the day, but please guys...don't be so gullible.


Actually, they can also get private sales removed if they use things they arent supposed to, EG games workshop stock images, the warhammer logos (digital as apposed to a photograph of the box) and things like that.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

The main thing they're interested in stopping is sales of recast IP-infringing stuff, like the resin 'Ork Tank' from a Chinese seller with clearly-visible recast GW parts like Dreadnought lascannons, Ork Stompa weapons and the like which I reported to them a few months back.

Ordinary folks have _nothing_ to fear.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

What i have done is gone to the source of the rumour (the person who told me) and he told me that GW are going after those who have trade accounts, who then break up cheap kits and sell the constituent parts on EBay. This he did not say in the first place.

The only problem with this however is technically once you have opened a box it is used and GW can do nothing if you then place those parts or entire sprues on EBay as long as the person does not breech IP laws of that country, as said GW has not a leg to stand on.

It is like Ford Australia deciding that its Ford Branded Cars can no longer be sold through 2nd hand car lots/roadsides or the internet.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Svartmetall said:


> The main thing they're interested in stopping is sales of recast IP-infringing stuff, like the resin 'Ork Tank' from a Chinese seller with clearly-visible recast GW parts like Dreadnought lascannons, Ork Stompa weapons and the like which I reported to them a few months back.
> 
> Ordinary folks have _nothing_ to fear.


I have seen some real dodgy stuff coming out of Russia.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

GW staff (at HQ, anyway) are not allowed contractually to sell anything that they buy at anything less than full price whilst they work for GW. Staff selling stuff bought to paint and sell on must keep full-price receipts. All quite reasonable. 

GW will actively go after anything that has been recast that is one of their own products, or anything that is recast using components that are blatantly part of an existing (or OOP) GW kit. 

I don't know about buying kits to break up and sell on as bits, but if you aren't a Trade Account, they can't touch you for it. Private customers can do whatever they like with what they buy, once it's theirs, so long as it's not illegal in other ways.


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## deathwatch27 (Dec 30, 2009)

Whenever I sell anything on ebay its always easier to take my own photo's rather than use stock images so people know what their getting. I also never buy off people who don't have their own photo's. That way you always get what you pay for.

GW are losing the plot bigtime ATM. Soon there won't be any customers left to buy their stock let alone off ebay.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Here's one that's been "asked" to remove his image, probably used a stock photo:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dark-Eldar-CODE...949?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa601e51d

That means the "rumor" has some basis, but.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Here's one that's been "asked" to remove his image, probably used a stock photo:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Dark-Eldar-CODE...949?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa601e51d
> 
> That means the "rumor" has some basis, but.


Yes i know this vendor i have him/her in my saved sellers list.

The removal of said pictures were GW stock photos, however if the vendor had taken those photos of the product and then covered those photos with a watermark then GW hasn't a leg to stand on. Because those photos that the vendor takes becomes IP of the vendor.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Achaylus72 said:


> Yes i know this vendor i have him/her in my saved sellers list.
> 
> The removal of said pictures were GW stock photos, however if the vendor had taken those photos of the product and then covered those photos with a watermark then GW hasn't a leg to stand on. Because those photos that the vendor takes becomes IP of the vendor.


Im not really with you on that one.

If they take the stock image off GWs website, not matter how they alter it or play with it then they are infringing on GWs IP.

If they take a photo of a product (in this case a book) then they are not infringing anyones IP as they are using a photo of a product that they own - they wouldnt need to watermark it or anything.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Here's one that's been "asked" to remove his image, probably used a stock photo:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Dark-Eldar-CODE...949?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa601e51d
> 
> That means the "rumor" has some basis, but.


Actually, not really. The rumour was that GW was stopping people selling on Ebay which they arent, they are only stopping people using GWs stock images to sell their stuff.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Maidel said:


> Im not really with you on that one.
> 
> If they take the stock image off GWs website, not matter how they alter it or play with it then they are infringing on GWs IP.
> 
> If they take a photo of a product (in this case a book) then they are not infringing anyones IP as they are using a photo of a product that they own - they wouldnt need to watermark it or anything.


They were stock photos from GW and he was using photos lifted from the GW site as many have done, this is what they are cracking down as previously been said.

Alsi i said had they taken a "private" photo at home and then uploaded their own photo that as been said before does not infringe copyright.

So in a way we agree with each other.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Achaylus72 said:


> They were stock photos from GW and he was using photos lifted from the GW site as many have done, this is what they are cracking down as previously been said.
> 
> Alsi i said had they taken a "private" photo at home and then uploaded their own photo that as been said before does not infringe copyright.
> 
> So in a way we agree with each other.


Thats fine. I was just getting confused. :biggrin:

Frankly with a young baby in the house and lack of sleep, Im getting confused about left and right at the moment...


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

This is actually a pain in relation to army books, because I bought 3-4 fantasy army books off ebay a few weeks ago and I would have bought 3-4 more if it wasn't for the fact that I noticed, last minute, that some (not the one's I bought) were not the 'current' ones.

The same problem could occur with certain model ranges.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Maidel said:


> Actually, not really. The rumour was that GW was stopping people selling on Ebay which they arent, they are only stopping people using GWs stock images to sell their stuff.


They will be stopping companies from selling cross-continent just like other retailers, provided they are getting their stock from GW. Resellers are of course unaffected.

I only meant that that auction at least proves GW are watching auctions on eBay now, nothing more.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> I only meant that that auction at least proves GW are watching auctions on eBay now, nothing more.


Fair point. And seeing some of the very dodgy GW sales on ebay, im not surprised.

I bet they got quite a few complaints from people buying stuff off ebay that really wasnt very good which had nothing to do with them.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

I wonder how GW will treat things like http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BLACK-TEMPLAR...61?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item1e623ef989 

Shameless use of the name to sell the product but clearly could not be confused with the real deal.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

GW might be able to stop people infringing their intellectual property rights, but they wouldn't be able to stop individual sales for the simple reason that once you've bought them, there yours to do with as you like.


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