# Making Raven Guard work?



## anarchyfever (May 24, 2008)

I've changed my tactics a few times and so this is a bit of an old post my newer lists are

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28050 this list is my newer non scout army (red scops for when i go to japan)

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27888 and this is my new scout list i'm slowly putting together


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## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

wheres your assault marines not very RG

MY 1K LIST

chaplin: jump pack

tactical sq 1: lascannon flamer sarg ccw rhino

tactical sq 2: same

venerable dread: hvy flamer assault cannon drop pod

assault sq: PF flamerx2 10 man sq


Combat sq tactical squads sarg & flamer in rhino's move 12 to shield assault sq lascannons takes on tanks dread comes in behind most dangerous target tank or unit flames or rear armours it works everytime rg are about speed with or with out shrike...

I only use him in 1500pt or more games then i run no less then 2 assault squads but run them together fleet rocks against shooty armies first turn assault anyone


ok i find charging a cc squad works best as it negates alot of attacks ok I10 is good but +1 attack is better for you then them.

preds are good but with cover now i see them useless don't even own one vindi's are better pred has no twin linked weapons meaning average of 5 hits 4 wounds not very good for 85 points 2 razors with hvy bolters would work out better and you have 2 targets.

landspeeders are a liability by themselves an easy target take 2 but i never use them either i go for assuault squads with PF new rear armour rule means most time rear armour is 10 so not hard to pen but your choice.

and beserkers i'd have around 3-4 flamers hitting them before assault meaning many less then chaplins re-roll hits means many more dead my assault squad can easily take 30 orks in cc on charge 99% of time atleast i always have RG are a hit an run army no use for a pred or sterns there good but i like RG fluff and its a winning combo when used right


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## anarchyfever (May 24, 2008)

sorry i deleted the quote becuase it was taking up too much space and it was complaing, gah sorry i'll figure it out soon enought

wheres your assault marines not very RG

I feel that if i wanted a more assaulty army i would of gone for blood angels as they can take assualt sqauds as troops, also when i read RG material they sounded more stealty and going for the weak points then charging it like the white stripes (please read more carefully as I stated this)

_chaplin: jump pack_

I agree with you on this, its a really nice model

_tactical sq 1: lascannon flamer sarg ccw rhino

tactical sq 2: same_

assuming you combat squad them, you've spent 20 points on a weapon you will only be able to fire 4 times(2 each) the whole match, along with only taking out 1 unit or 1 tank, and these are you only scoring units, 

marines are tought but you need more troops in case the guy your up against decides he likes AP 3 weapons 
_
venerable dread: hvy flamer assault cannon drop pod_

dreadnoughts in droppods are nice but i think you should change the assault cannon for a CCW otherwise your throwing away S 10 in close combat for something which you yourself said isn't very RG

_assault sq: PF flamerx2 10 man sq_

powerfists are nice but their 30 points and I 1, something which could go towards a Rhino or 2 power weapons, also your spending 200 pts in a 1000 point army where you need troops to be moving for 2/3 of games, any clever tactition would shoot it to bits before going near it, with the chaplian its a very killy squad i agree, but they have the same problem the vanguard do, once everything is dead your in open space with no cover


_Combat sq tactical squads sarg & flamer in rhino's move 12 to shield assault sq lascannons takes on tanks dread comes in behind most dangerous target tank or unit flames or rear armours it works everytime rg are about speed with or with out shrike..._

honsetly i think most seasoned players could rip this apart, also it sounds like your army is a Blood angel wanna be, your assault troops don't score and so your wasting valuable pts on scoreing units which get Hvy weapons

_I only use him in 1500pt or more games then i run no less then 2 assault squads but run them together fleet rocks against shooty armies first turn assault anyone_

your troops need to be heading towards the objective, not wasting time and getting killed while doing a poorer job than an assault sqaud

_ok i find charging a cc squad works best as it negates alot of attacks ok I10 is good but +1 attack is better for you then them._

Khorne berserkers are I 6, and gene stealers I know are higher, you would be ripped to shreds before you got an attack in, I explained this please read more carefully about use of cover

_preds are good but with cover now i see them useless don't even own one vindi's are better pred has no twin linked weapons meaning average of 5 hits 4 wounds not very good for 85 points 2 razors with hvy bolters would work out better and you have 2 targets._

Vinds only have 24" range and its a template which rolls, you would have to be very lucky with the dice which is explained in may other forums, I also explained that using the Predator has a psychological effect as the enermy isn't going to charge a tank even if it doesn't hit all the time

_landspeeders are a liability by themselves an easy target take 2 but i never use them either i go for assuault squads with PF new rear armour rule means most time rear armour is 10 so not hard to pen but your choice._

your assault sqaud moves 12" everyturn, this means while having to reach me without being hit it has to catch up to a speeder which can fly over dangerous terrain at 24"

_and beserkers i'd have around 3-4 flamers hitting them before assault meaning many less then chaplins re-roll hits means many more dead my assault squad can easily take 30 orks in cc on charge 99% of time atleast i always have RG are a hit an run army no use for a pred or sterns there good but i like RG fluff and its a winning combo when used right

First Khorne berserkers arn't orks, you will be slaughtered before you got to take a hit becuase he goes first, and flamers don't work well on marines, I think you should go back and read some of the RG battle reports, the RG had a long fued with the white stripes becuase they are loud and assaulty, while the RG are quiet and objective.

I personally I think GW tryed to play the assaulty theme becuase of Shirke, but believe me, when you go against a Blood angel player you will know an assault army

Otherwise please read what I have written more carefully as I explained everything you said there.

Thanks for replying:biggrin:_


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## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

well its not very blood angles wanna be if you'd looked at the fluff its shit i can't take them as troops but a hard hitting cc sq is very effective.

the dread has a assualt cannon and dread ccw with a hhvy flamer attached to it so still has str 10

power firsts are good for nobz and MC's and trust me if you cause ten wounds with flamers it'll kill stuff and thats not hard with positioning.

i know beserkers are going first as are genestealers but there gunna assault anyway so shoot then beat them to punch counter offence is sometimes best option

vindi's have 24'' thats right whats deployment 12'' to 24'' meaning move six something will be in range and with new rules take bs from scatter so 8'' at most if your unlucky.

((((I only use him in 1500pt or more games then i run no less then 2 assault squads but run them together fleet rocks against shooty armies first turn assault anyone

your troops need to be heading towards the objective, not wasting time and getting killed while doing a poorer job than an assault sqaud))))

no idea where this come from what do you think tactical marines in the rhino are for capturing objective after assault sq has cleared it.
and as for shooting it up theres still a dread to take some fire and its behind the rhinos for cover.

it shows they use assault infantry yes there quite but they still use a rapid attack theme like white scars.

and i'm a blood angel veteren player from 3rd ed so don't need a lecture about assault armies there pathetic now compared to them but reason i never took them back up when i got back into game.

maybe we'll agree to disagree as we have different style of play i came third in last regional league 4th in last region tourny and currently sharing 1st place in this league

maybe you need to see how i play rather then look at list


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## anarchyfever (May 24, 2008)

spike12225 said:


> maybe we'll agree to disagree as we have different style of play i came third in last regional league 4th in last region tourny and currently sharing 1st place in this league
> 
> maybe you need to see how i play rather then look at list


you make a good point, we both play different ways and so the tactics are going to be different and I can see how that army works, I have been putting together a SAD army list together (scouts, Assualt, Dreadnought) I'll put it down and see what you think of it, I would also be really intrested in any battle reports you have or your willing to put up on the boards, thanks for replying


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## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

i'll try and record my next game for you i'd be more then glad to look at the list as we could both only learn from it. 
i can see you point of view to only scouts were nerfed to much in my opinion there technically veteran soldiers of imp gaurd quility so should have bs 4 atleast IMO.

and you'll have to let me know how iit does but and against what armies.

gaurd and tau i hammer with this list never lost to them.

eldar and DE 85% win 

orks so far 50%

and i've lost to demons once


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## anarchyfever (May 24, 2008)

spike12225 said:


> i'll try and record my next game for you i'd be more then glad to look at the list as we could both only learn from it.
> i can see you point of view to only scouts were nerfed to much in my opinion there technically veteran soldiers of imp gaurd quility so should have bs 4 atleast IMO.


http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28050
this is my scout army, its still missing 105 points though


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Anarchy...Not to be rude or anything, but a number of your facts are wrong...

Berserker are only Initiative 4, 5 on the charge, Genestealers are Initiative 6 base.

Powerfists are only 25 pts a piece.

Genestealers can get frag grenades, though its much better to take feeder tendrils (Re-Rolls on failed to hits) ftw. Also, Khorne beserkers have frag grenades by default, and are fearless.

Dreadnoughts cannot take 2 CCW, unless its an Ironclad or a Furioso (Blood Angels)


Also, never underestimate the power of flamethrowers. Yes, they may not ignore marine armor, but if you have two, or even one against a tightly packed mob you can easily get 6-10 hits, and half of those wound. Thats still more wounds than any other weapon in the marine arsenal can do with one shot (Not on a vehicle of course)


As for dealing with Beserkers since I do this a lot, is remove their transport (My friend usually rolls them in a LR so even harder to do) and then shoot them as much as possible. Make him take his saves, he will fail them, and then finally CHARGE him if hes in range, do not give him the charge bonus!


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## anarchyfever (May 24, 2008)

Taggerung said:


> Anarchy...Not to be rude or anything, but a number of your facts are wrong...
> 
> Berserker are only Initiative 4, 5 on the charge, Genestealers are Initiative 6 base.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice actually this is one of my older armies their is a link on the post above to my new one


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Looking at both your list, anarchyfever, and spike12225's list; mine seems to be much more different. (For various reasons)

HQ:
Reclusiarch Torvus
Jump pack; meltabombs

Troops:
Scout squad Raev
1x Additional scout; 4x Sniper rifles; heavy bolter; sergeant Raev (Tellion); 5x camo-cloaks

Tactical squad Corvenus
5x Additional marines; meltagun; heavy bolter/missile launcher; powerfist
Drop pod

Tactical squad Falke
5x Additional marines; lascannon; flamer; power weapon
Razorback

Elites:
Fast Attack:
Assault squad Calig
5x Additional marines; powerfist; 2x flamer

Heavy Support:
Devestator squad Estus
5x Additonal marines; 2x lascannon; 2x missile launcher

Total: 1243

Very different from the lists you two seem to run, though also slightly higher total. (The previous version of this list, at 1k, did not have the second tactical squad.)

Been playing Raven Guard for a long time now, from fourth to fifth with them; and while the likes of assault marines may be something they are better known for, its not something they are only known for. The same with Shrike; he's a decent unit and a shadow-captain, but he doesn't lead them all. (I personally do not use Shrike, ever; he leads the third shadow-company where I play the second.)

I like the surprise tactic, I do that to a degree with squad Corvenus. Bring them in where they can do the most harm or cause the biggest distraction, forcing my opponent to deal with them first and throwing fewer units at the rest of my army for a short period of time. Not so keen on most armour though; more infantry based myself.

From what I remember, the D of SAD for Raven Guard always meant drop pod, not dreadnought, as that is another of the things they are best known for: drop podding in squads in locations pinpointed by the scouts.


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## anarchyfever (May 24, 2008)

darkreever said:


> From what I remember, the D of SAD for Raven Guard always meant drop pod, not dreadnought, as that is another of the things they are best known for: drop podding in squads in locations pinpointed by the scouts.


thanks I wasn't sure about that one, but you do have a different list, i've got a newer list i'll put it up on this post now


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Here is a typical list that I take...(I have so much crap so its never the same...ever haha)

HQ: Jump Pack Chaplain, and maybe a librarian, master of the forge or a captain, depending on who I'm fighting 

Elites: Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, HF, 
Chaplain dreadnought, plasma cannon or Venerable with TL auto cannon.

HS: Whirlwind, Devastators (this depends on who im fighting, but almost always 2 LC 2 ML) and if fighting meq, LR redeemer.

FA: 10 man Assault squad, PF Sgt. Attack bike squadron, 2 bikes, both ML. Great for tank hunting, drawing fire. Sometimes I will take Vangaurds and throw them in my LR redeemer, but again mostly against MEQ's.

Troops: 2 Tac squads, usually HB and Plasma gun in both, with rhino's
5 man scout squad, 4 snipers, 1 ML(Sometimes Telion, making it 6 man)
10 man scout squad, camo cloaks, PF sgt w/ shotgun, everyone else BP/CCW. They outflank generally.


I usually do pretty well, I win about 80% of my matches, rarely ever lose.

I have 5 dreadnoughts right now (One being a chaplain dread from FW), and 3 different types of chaplains. This goes with my armies theme/fluff that its very devoted to the emperor, and honors its fallen members with very high reverence so its very devoted to maintaining dreadnoughts and recovering those lost in battle. So lots of both.



Last game against DE I rolled with 4 dreadnoughts and a master of the forge. Didn't lose a single dread, it was awesome


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