# Are armies getting weaker?



## warrior-of-hope (Dec 20, 2006)

I have notoced and been told that many of the armies are getting weaker, losing powerful magic items and combinations etc as the new books get released. I think this is good because it is bad when you lose to a guy because of 1 combo of spells or a character. I think its a little unfair on us guys who get re-done first though


----------



## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

I'm not sure on this policy.

The Empire book for example not only keeps all of its Magic Items but they have become cheaper, and they have a few new tricks.


----------



## Ragnar_Burmane (Dec 15, 2006)

I agree, I think if anything it has gone the other way as the new books come out. IMO so far Wood Elves, Orcs, Dwarves and Empire have all become more powerful or versatile in the new books


----------



## Too_hot_to_handle (Jan 4, 2007)

ORCS Haven't become more powerful and versatile. Your statement made me laugh. Have you read the new Orc and Goblin army book, or are you just saying that because u got your arse handed to you by a better player?

I play orcs at a tournament level, and what the new book has done to my army is a joke. 75% of the magic items of old are gone, which relates to about 95% of the magic items in a decent tournament list. There magic is now no-where near as good as it was because of this. Goblin wolf chariot became 1 per special choice. Goblin wolf riders points cost increased by 20%. all fast stuff in now proportionally more expensive. Animosity is much worse and if you wanna do something about it you kill your own guys. the magic banners are a joke. There are 2 pieces of magic armour, neither really that good. The magic weapons are meh.

Overall O&G have taken a big big hit and the only way they can feasably be used now is as mob hoard, throwing unit apon unit away at the enemy. How is it more versatile that only 1 army type works now, whilst before there were at least 3.

When i say this bare in mind i'm talking about it tournament play, not down the local GW against someone who thinks taking slann is a good idea. Any army can do ok against muppets who dont know what there doing, im talking about comparing decent lists played by decent opponents


----------



## Too_hot_to_handle (Jan 4, 2007)

Also Woodelves took hits in many ways when there new codex came out. Magic being one of the biggest areas. Now they need some real luck AND expert playing to compete with some of the armies out there [empire gunline, Cavalry hammer, skink swarm, Magic Rape]. Really have you read any of the old army books your talking about or do u always make stuff up you know nothing about


----------



## Ragnar_Burmane (Dec 15, 2006)

I play wood elves against some very decent opponents and win about 90% of my games. They are a list designed for the player who likes to fox his opponent and prevent his abililty to carry out his battle plan. With regards to your comments about having my arse handed to me. I have yet to loose to orcs from the new book. That doesn't mean they are weak however. You sound like you just need to time to get to grips with the changing tactics of your new changed army list.

More importantly though your whole attitude in you reply is wrong an in no way necessary.

Calm down


----------



## Too_hot_to_handle (Jan 4, 2007)

in what way have orcs gotten more powerful then? and more versatile. I'd love to hear your words of wisdom. I've never lost with the new orcs either, and i play virtually every week, but that doesn't mean they haven't gotten weaker. 

Like i said woodelves got less powerful in some ways, most specifically magic but there were also a few other ways. They also got better in others like the seen in every woodelves army Alterkindred. At least they got other toys to play with whilst orcs got nerfed.


----------



## Ragnar_Burmane (Dec 15, 2006)

In terms of power the addition of the ability to call a waagh making it far more likely that you can charge early is a big plus.

In terms of versatility Black orcs now come with 2 choopas and great weapon, can take shield and are no longer a 0-1 choice. Plus the characters no longer take up an additional hero slot.

The special characters are much improved and appear to allow to you design your battle plan around them more and they can now be used at tournaments.

I agree that magic Items are significantly worse.

IMO this makes the list more playable, this is all just my opinion though.


----------



## Too_hot_to_handle (Jan 4, 2007)

Thing is the guy asked if armies were becoming weaker and in the case of orcs i definately think this is the case. the waagh ability doesn't make it far more likely, it makes it slightly more likely. d6 extra movement doesn't make up for all the cavalry armies your likely to face. BO are an improvement in the list, but they are still slow and the enemy will avoid them/march block them/shoot them/ or magic rape them. Bare in mind that every unit of BO you take means you can't have Boars, chariots or boltthrowers instead, usually people will just use big un's instead. Or just gang up on them and get the charge off with there fast units. The special characters are ok, but hugely lacking in some areas and are much weaker than most other races uber characters and specials. 

Remember the original post was have armies become weaker. You said that orcs were amoungst those that became more powerful or versatile. How can an army that only has one affective tournament build that used to have at least 3 be comsidered more powerful or versatile? Its magics suffered, its chariots have suffered...both of which were reasonable ways of dealing with cavalry. Its characters are weaker. 

Basically its footslogging units have improved but everything else has gotten worse.


----------



## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

The new Empire are stronger and get more units so if anything their stronger
but the helbalster having to role to hit is just annoying.


----------



## HavenDan (Jan 6, 2007)

As an Orc player i can say pretty much they made everything worse then the basic Boy and Arrer Boy. Goblins.. o god lets not get started what they did to them (yes a 1pt increase IS a big difference) The choppa rule for Orks got signifigantly better seeing now they can use it with a sheild and two choppas (which i find slightly overpowered considering i have 2 units of 20 boyz w/ 2 hand weapons) Everything good has gone up in price, there is NO point to the goblin wolf chariot. I do like what they did to the magic though because i used to always take an Ork mage and now that finnaly they made different spell books for Orks and Goblins i can use an Ork mage and not think to myself why am i not using a goblin mage. Black Orks have actully gotten worse cause they lost their best ability.. quell animosity. Black Ork Boss still has it though but hes only at s4. Now all ork heros are also lightly armored and able to be beaten in challanges due to lack of magical equipment. 

What I'm trying to say is that Orcs have gotten worse except for the basic Boy and Arrer Boy (who got 1pt cheaper)


----------



## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

I figured they made it an Orcs & Goblins book, rather than just a Goblins book like the last one- :?


----------



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Yeah orcs have definately taken a hit


----------



## Too_hot_to_handle (Jan 4, 2007)

Prehaps there trying to make empire the marines of warhammer?


----------



## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

Too_hot_to_handle said:


> Prehaps there trying to make empire the marines of warhammer?


no I think bretonians are the marine of fantasy


----------

