# Heavy stubber, Auto cannon and Assualt cannon...what's the difference?



## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

Okay i know what the difference is as far as games terms is but where do we draw the line? Some guns such as the bolter and plasma guns have specific ammos that they use to make them more or less powerful in certain fields but stub, auto and assualt weapons are more or less all machine solid shot weapons.

Yes i know that they look different but in military terms a support machine gun could just as easily be used to describe any one of the above weapons. 

Now here is my basic problem, i've bought a set of models from the warzone range to add flavour to my planned imperial guard army. Amongst them is a man armed with this.









Now it's clearly a minigun type weapon but it is a much smaller calibre then the assault cannons seen on dreadnoughts or support vehicles. 

I reasoned i would use it as a counts as autocannon and mount it up on a HW base with a feeder feeding the belt. Problem is that everone i've shown the model to has said "but guard can't field assault cannons" So what is it that makes these weapons different apart from their stats? 

I read the Gaunts ghost book "Straight silver" recently where the planetary forces are armed with single shot bolt action auto rifles. That instantly throws the idea that all autorifles are military spec assault rifles such as we would have today out of the window. I thought that stub pistols were similar to revolvers in their slow firing method and auto pistols were closer to say a glock or uzi with rapid and single shot function but the fluff doesn't even seem to agree on that all of the time. 

What do you think? is it fluffy to field that minigunesque cannon as an autocannon or is it clearly an assault cannon to you and why?


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

I think if you just clarify it to your opponent beforehand you should be fine. 40K weapons in terms of solid-shot weapons are pretty ambiguous anyways, considering the various forgeworld patterns and different ammo all around the place. 

Looks great too on the model, good luck!


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

IRL, a an autocannon fires a shell, rather than bullet - the definition of shell being that it is hollow filled with explosive rather than a solid bullet, usually with low RoF so that the heavier round doesn't overheat and warp the barrel/explode prematurely.

An assault cannon is basically a rotary cannon, but whether it's similar to the Avenger (re; A10 Thunderbolt 2) in that it fires shells, or similar to the M134 7.62 Bullets, considering it's size, remains to be seen.

A Heavy Stubber is basically a none Rotary, Bullet firing, high RoF weapon, often mounted on a carriage - the equivalent of perhaps your .50 Cal weapon, like an M2.

Heavy Bolters are the equivalent of a super sized belt fed XM25 PGL. Yes - you heard me - Heavy Bolters are in real life. It fires a 1.0 Cal (25mm + change) grenade in a flat trajectory, as opposed to a (say) MPL140 40mm Grenade Launcher (incidentally, exactly what the Guard Launchers reference). Yes, it lacks the rocket assisted ammunition, but for all intents and purposes, the XM25 is a Heavy Bolter.

As to your opponents, they're twats. You paid the points for it, you're not modelling for advantage, it's an autocannon.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

Vaz said:


> IRL, a an autocannon fires a shell, rather than bullet - the definition of shell being that it is hollow filled with explosive rather than a solid bullet, usually with low RoF so that the heavier round doesn't overheat and warp the barrel/explode prematurely.
> 
> An assault cannon is basically a rotary cannon, but whether it's similar to the Avenger (re; A10 Thunderbolt 2) in that it fires shells, or similar to the M134 7.62 Bullets, considering it's size, remains to be seen.
> 
> A Heavy Stubber is basically a none Rotary, Bullet firing, high RoF weapon, often mounted on a carriage - the equivalent of perhaps your .50 Cal weapon, like an M2.


Okay that explains real life and gives a better definition on the line between weapon types, from this description i woudl now class guns like the SAW and brownings as stubbers rather than the autocannons i would have classed them as before.

It falls short somewhat when you consider that autoguns are meant to be the smaller variant of the autocannon and the autopistol is a step even further. Somehow i just can't envision single shot bolt action rifles that are able to fire explosive or high callibre shots (aside from marksmans rifles obviously). This line of thinking would place guns like M1 carbine and AK-47 in the stubber family rather than being classed as autorifles.



Grimskul25 said:


> Looks great too on the model, good luck!


Wish i could take credit for this model but it's not mine, i was using it as an example to save me having to dig out the sprue and camera


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Looks like a Gatling Gun to me.

If my memory is not playing tricks the Praetorian IG Weapons team had something very similar as an autocannon.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> If my memory is not playing tricks the Praetorian IG Weapons team had something very similar as an autocannon.


i don't think they did....the heavy weapons were all more or less standardised with the same metal weapons and wheeled carriages at that point, the only exception was the rocket launchers which had to vary due to the arm being attatched. 

I'm pretty sure that i can get away with them being autocannons now anyway, if most of you guys would allow it it just seems that my friends are being picky.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

GrimzagGorwazza said:


> i don't think they did....the heavy weapons were all more or less standardised with the same metal weapons and wheeled carriages at that point....


I might be thinking of Zulu then; one of my main opponent's from back then played Zulu several times to get all the names and uniforms for his Praetorians, so I cannot tell what was only in the film.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

hmm maybe he converted one up? here is what the hw teams looked like....the wheels of the carriages have been changed but nothing else as far as i can see.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Heavy stubber is like a M-60 if Im not misstaken, or MG-42, Auto cannon is like a 50. or bigger ammo user and Assualt cannon... that one Im not sure. But lets say, its like taking ak-47, m-16, mp-5 and put them all in the same category.


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