# GK Codex in hand!



## Gold170492 (Feb 12, 2008)

Any Questions?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I'd think most people have it by now.

Anyways, I can answer some questions as well.


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## StalkerZero (Oct 3, 2010)

On my Necron codex on the spine it says "Our number is Legion. Our name is Death."

On the spine of the Grey Knight codex does it say "[email protected]"?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

No. It's exactly like every other spine in this edition. Blue with White Writing.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

Is the fluff as awful as I think it is?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Yes and no. Draigo, for example has two whole pages of fluff to himself (well, 3 columns, really). It's excellent stuff, until you get to the second page, when he does get dragged into the Warp.

Personally, it plays out like a Prince of Persia Plot, the Dreamscape Scene in Dragon Age: Origins, or a God Of War Plot from that point in. It would make a fucking amazing game though if they ever considered it. I love a bit of retarded silliness.

Mordrak - he felt guilt. Now in the past, feelings as such would the way through which Chaos would enter the psyche of a sentient creature. In the past, Grey Knights had to be careful of such emotions, as otherwise, they'd be prey to the Dark Gods. Now, though, it just seems as they can feel whatever they want, and only their inner purity will keep them safe. That's going to be subjective, as some people will obvious want a bit of personality. I think that's tripe, personally though.

Stern - not much has changed. Fucking legend. 

Crowe - eh, opinion is mixed. Fluff is semi-decent, but half arsed, rather than the whole "out there" attitude people have towards him. It's an interesting take on the whole "Relictors" issue though, considering they declared Relictors excommunicate traitoris and nearly destroyed them for the same thing.

One thing I was not happy with though, was the small text box which mentioned the time during the 8th Black Crusade when the Knights were mid way through fighting to seal a Warp Rift, a Tau expeditionary fleet happened upon the stricken planet, and proceeded to blow the Grey Knights apart, so they allied with the Daemon's to bring them down. That was very poorly written.


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

so the fluff is as silly as the blood angels teaming up with the necrons then?


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Yes and no. Draigo, for example has two whole pages of fluff to himself (well, 3 columns, really). It's excellent stuff, until you get to the second page, when he does get dragged into the Warp.
> So it is true. The Matt Ward fanboyisme continues with omgawesomesauce! feats of retardation that even Stan Lee would be ashamed of.
> 
> Personally, it plays out like a Prince of Persia Plot, the Dreamscape Scene in Dragon Age: Origins, or a God Of War Plot from that point in. It would make a fucking amazing game though if they ever considered it. I love a bit of retarded silliness.
> ...


And I thought "Herp de derp" was only Jervis Johnsons motto.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Tau expeditionary fleet in the 8th Black Crusade (shitting on the known timeline, incidentally...)? GREY KNIGHTS AND DAEMONS AS ALLIES?
WHAT?!

GODDAMNIT, I'D EXPECT BETTER CANON COMPLIANCY FROM DOCTOR WHO, LET ALONE 40K. HOW DID WARD PULL THAT OFF?


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Tell me for the love of the Emperor that the Tau were the ones that allied up with the Daemons, it would at least make a small amount of sense. Other vise you can expect to see on the newspaper that someone has been running haywire with a shotgun in Nottingham.


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## Quase (May 25, 2010)

Probably in the same way that they found an excuse to have a Grey Knight (who shun radicalism by nature) wield a Deamon Weapon.

**shudders**


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

I'm just as upset as you are. To think the GK nancies would be so opposed to our better society as to ally with their mortal enemies to oppose it.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

How many pairs of eyeballs are there in the entire book?


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## troybuckle (Nov 24, 2010)

Ahhhh… I’m not going to pretend that I know a lot about GK’s, but I know that GK’s teaming up with daemons is almost at dumb as daemons teaming up with them, and to fight Tau?? WTF? How did that go down? Mortal enemies teaming up to kill some hippies trying to bring peace to a random planet. Even if they were being attacked by Nids I don’t think they would team up. Maybe Matt Ward is just lurking this form laughing his ass off at all of us saying "WTF." Or maybe trying to lay ground work for 6th edition where the “Looming Nid Threat” shows up and every race has to team up to stop them? Either-way, I don’t like that fluff, but you can’t let one tiny part ruin the whole dex i guess. I will save my judgment until I read it myself.


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## starfyreXXX (Feb 22, 2011)

there is a mention in a battle where the GKs, who were getting their butts kicked by nids, got 'saved, when the daemons, coming from another direction crashed into the nids from behind and started a nids vs daemon battle and the GKs could then just unload their weapons on both of them...

From what I read, I'm fine with the stuff on Draigo. Reminds me of the old 2e D&D adventure "A Paladin in Hell". But some of the other stuff needs to be rewritten...

Sanjay


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## HatingYou (Oct 10, 2010)

GK and daemons?....allies?

that's it ward shit just got real


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Jezlad said:


> How many pairs of eyeballs are there in the entire book?


756 and a half


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

No, no. No Daemons and GK allies. But still, it goes to show just how easy it was for people to believe that Ward came up with such tripe. High time, if any, for him to go and be promoted out of the job.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Does the book seem like Matt Ward was having an wank whilst thinking about and writing the codex?


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## ashikenshin (Mar 25, 2010)

hahahaha I didn't fell for it, I thought wow there has to be a reason why they would fight tau together. Like the nids story. I guess the hate on ward is strong.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

Nicely played Vaz.... nicely played.:good:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Marneus Calgar said:


> Does the book seem like Matt Ward was having an wank whilst thinking about and writing the codex?


He's still smoking the cigarette.


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## MrPete (Mar 5, 2011)

Vaz appears to have found a photo of Matt Ward in his natural habitat there.


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## Electric-Ashes (Mar 24, 2011)

There is just one thing I'm curious about.

Is the frontal armour of the dreadknight higher than it's side and rear armour.

If so... how is that possible?!?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

No, it's a walker.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Vaz said:


> One thing I was not happy with though, was the small text box which mentioned the time during the 8th Black Crusade when the Knights were mid way through fighting to seal a Warp Rift, a Tau expeditionary fleet happened upon the stricken planet, and proceeded to blow the Grey Knights apart, so they allied with the Daemon's to bring them down. That was very poorly written.


I don't suppose thats like the "alliance" between the Crimson Castellans chapter and the Chaos forces under Arch-Commodore Bloodspite? In that particular case the two sides merely chose to focus their efforts on killing the invading Tyranids and made sure to stay out of each others way until the Tyranids were gone, and if they had won against them they would have turned on each other again. If the GK and Daemons had that kind of "alliance" then I can buy it.

If not and they actually did help each other then that is the worst piece of 40k lore i've ever seen or read. It contradicts everything about the Grey Knights beliefs, lore and their legendary purity. To aid the cause of Chaos, even unwittingly, is heresy of the highest caliber and if those Grey Knights did help Daemons in combat then they should have been executed.

C.S Goto's books are better then that, at least he gets that humans kill aliens and Chaos, they don't get chummy with them except for occasionally helping the Eldar when they have no choice, and they usually turn on them after that.

Lord of the Night


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

Lord of the Night said:


> I don't suppose thats like the "alliance" between the Crimson Castellans chapter and the Chaos forces under Arch-Commodore Bloodspite? In that particular case the two sides merely chose to focus their efforts on killing the invading Tyranids and made sure to stay out of each others way until the Tyranids were gone, and if they had won against them they would have turned on each other again. If the GK and Daemons had that kind of "alliance" then I can buy it.
> 
> If not and they actually did help each other then that is the worst piece of 40k lore i've ever seen or read. It contradicts everything about the Grey Knights beliefs, lore and their legendary purity. To aid the cause of Chaos, even unwittingly, is heresy of the highest caliber and if those Grey Knights did help Daemons in combat then they should have been executed.
> 
> ...


Trololololol

Yeah Vaz made that stuff up. If it was true i would have blown an artery.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Vaz said:


> No, no. No Daemons and GK allies. But still, it goes to show just how easy it was for people to believe that Ward came up with such tripe. High time, if any, for him to go and be promoted out of the job.


A fine jest, indeed.

Can't believe I fell for that crap.

Lord of the Night


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

one question. power wise, as an army, are they on par with the boys from Fenris?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Too soon to judge. Potential for army wide S5+ I6 Instant Death causing Terminators rape TWC, although I think that in general, GK's will lose the numbers to be adequately counter Bloodwing or Wolves. Currently it's new army syndrome.

However, I have managed to come up with a unit capable of 12 S8 I6 Power Weapon Instant Death causing power weapon attacks rerolling misses with 3D6+S armour penetration. Costs ~600pts though, and that still leaves 4 other members of the squad to attack.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Vaz you did a typo its a monsterous creature.


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## RedemptionNL (Feb 23, 2011)

Vaz said:


> However, I have managed to come up with a unit capable of 12 S8 I6 Power Weapon Instant Death causing power weapon attacks rerolling misses with 3D6+S armour penetration. Costs ~600pts though, and that still leaves 4 other members of the squad to attack.


If you're thinking about casting Hammerhand and/or Might of Titan multiple times for one squad to stack their benefits, I doubt it works that way. It's probably best to wait for a FAQ, but I think it's intended that you can only benefit from each ability once. So a max of +2S and and S+2D6 for armour penetration.


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## abitterbuffalo (May 7, 2009)

aboytervigon said:


> Vaz you did a typo its a monsterous creature.


Yes yes, the Nemesis Dreadknight is indeed a monstrous creature. So no AV to speak of, just T6. Also, something I've been wondering, is the Dreadknight having S10 from DCCW confirmed?


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

pretty much it carries 2 powerfist that strike at i orders.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

RedemptionNL said:


> If you're thinking about casting Hammerhand and/or Might of Titan multiple times for one squad to stack their benefits, I doubt it works that way. It's probably best to wait for a FAQ, but I think it's intended that you can only benefit from each ability once. So a max of +2S and and S+2D6 for armour penetration.


Until that time...

And good catch, I knew what I meant, even if my fingers didn't, thankee aboytervigon. =).

As to the DCCW - yes Doomfists count as DCCW's, and hence gives a Dreadknight 4 (5 on the charge) S10 I4 attacks ignoring armour, 2D6+10 Penetration, and causing Instant Death.

There's also, strangely an "upgrade option" which only effect is to reduce enemies taking an unsaved wound to be reduced to I1 (but then again, that's only against Eternal Warrior), yet you yourself are reduced to I1 and lose 1 attack. About as stupid a decision as giving a model who automatically reroll failed to wound rolls the option for Digital Weapons.


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## Kai'n (Jul 23, 2010)

Doelago said:


> Other vise you can expect to see on the newspaper that someone has been running haywire with a shotgun in Nottingham.


Oh snap! I've been busted :shok:


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm not sure if this is a 100% confirm, but I do believe, apart from the Inqusition models listed in their codex, the Grey Knights cannot be allies with any other army. Including Space Marines. This is due to them being a secret order that is not meant to exist. The fact the Inquistion and GK Grand Masters would think nothing of blowing up millions of lives in order to keep the secret of their existance safe is testiment to this thought. 

Also, reading the latest White Dwarf, I was reading about the lore of the GK, and something caught my attention. It was a quote from a designer saying something along the lines of "The GK would think of nothing of sacrificng thousands of Battle-Sisters for their pureblood in order to summon a banishing ritual". The fact he used the word "Battle-Sisters" and not "Witch Hunters" made me think that they are indeed coming in line for a juicy update soon, including a renaming from Witch Hunters to Battle-Sisters. It also got me thinking of the lore... Grey Knights are the elite of the elite, they are a secret known only by the Inquisiton and other high ranking officals... they are used to tackle the toughest daemons and battle the warp whereever it is... how they are involved in with fighting other armies has yet to be explained... do they do it because they are ordered to, or is it an accident that they do so? Since they were designed purely to fight the Warp and all it's inhabitants. So anyways, since they are the elite guys taking on secret missions to destroy the daemons.... I assume the Battle Sisters are the "Visable" aspect of the Inqusition... or at least will be.... their job is to purge renegade pyskers and to clean worlds which are considered heratic or unclean by the Inqusition. While they don't shy away from fighting Daemons, they are nowhere near as powerful as Grey Knights in fighting them. So my guess is, that both the Grey Knights, and what I see as a possible new army of the "Battle-Sisters" using the same Inqusition models, but having their own personal troops and heavy support. While the Grey Knights are small, highly trained, superbly equipped army, the Battle-Sisters are, in comparison, less equipped, but much more rounded than the Grey Knights, able to tank on any foe... while the Grey Knights really excell against Daemons only... not that they suck... oh no! Anyways I greatly look forward to the codex when it's released on the 2nd of April and I look forward to "mind building" an army.... I still have the rest of my Lizardmen to finish and paint....


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## RedemptionNL (Feb 23, 2011)

Vaz said:


> Until that time...


I tend to err on the side of caution with things like this, it makes for friendlier games. 



> There's also, strangely an "upgrade option" which only effect is to reduce enemies taking an unsaved wound to be reduced to I1 (but then again, that's only against Eternal Warrior), yet you yourself are reduced to I1 and lose 1 attack. About as stupid a decision as giving a model who automatically reroll failed to wound rolls the option for Digital Weapons.


Daemonhammers strike at normal Initiative when equipped by a Dreadknight. But yeah, you'd still loose the attack and pay the points though, just to gain the bonus Crew Shaken result on hit vehicles and the Initiative 1 for hit opponents (that aren't Instant Death-ed).


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Troublehalf said:


> I'm not sure if this is a 100% confirm, but I do believe, apart from the Inqusition models listed in their codex, the Grey Knights cannot be allies with any other army. Including Space Marines. This is due to them being a secret order that is not meant to exist. The fact the Inquistion and GK Grand Masters would think nothing of blowing up millions of lives in order to keep the secret of their existance safe is testiment to this thought.


So what ur trying to say is that they're so secret that during the 1st Armeggedon War Logan of the SWs meant to call Pizza Hut for 40,000 pizzas, but accidently dialed the wrong #, and it turn out to be the GKs? 

Totaly belivable.....


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Kai'n said:


> Oh snap! I've been busted :shok:


Suggest going for an autocannon instead.


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## Mr.Juggernaught (Nov 16, 2010)

Okay I have actually got a question. Does the force falcions count as two close combat weapons therefor giving a awesome +2 attacks? And with the purifiers can they cast purifying flame and hammer hand at the same time/ And does purifying flame roll once for the unit or for every model?


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## RedemptionNL (Feb 23, 2011)

Mr.Juggernaught said:


> Okay I have actually got a question. Does the force falcions count as two close combat weapons therefor giving a awesome +2 attacks?


Still unclear and up for discussion, see this poll on Dakka.



> And with the purifiers can they cast purifying flame and hammer hand at the same time


They can only cast one psychic power per player turn so no. Of course, you can attach an independent character with the Hammerhand ability and have him cast it, as it benefits the entire squad.



> And does purifying flame roll once for the unit or for every model?


You roll a D6 for every model in the enemy unit. So if you're in close combat with a 20 man Ork Boyz Mob and a 5 man Ork Warbiker Mob, the Boys would take 20 hits and the Warbikers would take 5 hits, which all wound on a 4+ regardless of Toughness. Armour or Invulnerable saves can be taken as normal.


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## Worldkiller (Jun 16, 2010)

Is there anything in the codex about the GK's founding? I started writing a fan book on how I think it happened but I've put a pause on it to see how it turns out (I don't like contradicting established fluff in the fanfiction I write).


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Thanks on reminding about the note for THams on DK's, Redemption. Forgot the paraphrase.

As to the Falchions, I'm leaning more towards two - the option is for "pair" and "pair" is a derivative of two.

As else, Redemption has the truth of it =).


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

Worldkiller said:


> Is there anything in the codex about the GK's founding? I started writing a fan book on how I think it happened but I've put a pause on it to see how it turns out (I don't like contradicting established fluff in the fanfiction I write).


Yes. It covers the background of them. While little bits of information about the GK are scattered throughout the 40k universe, a lot of it is not cemented down, hence why the codex will sort this out. As far as I know, they were designated Chapter 666, that they wield Nemesis force weapons, that they fight daemons; are highly secretive and are based on Saturn's moon of Titan. So, the codex goes and places these little nuggets of detail into a massive background, allowing to edit things.


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> So what ur trying to say is that they're so secret that during the 1st Armeggedon War Logan of the SWs meant to call Pizza Hut for 40,000 pizzas, but accidently dialed the wrong #, and it turn out to be the GKs?
> 
> Totaly belivable.....


The point on them not allowing them to work with other Space Marines... isn't actually a rumour.... or a guess... it is actually stated in the old Daemon Hunter codex. It states, that any Space Marine army, can use GK and Inquisition models as allies, but the Grey Knights CANNOT use Space Marine models as allies. It might of changed, but I don't see why it should of... they are super secretive.. why should they change it?

You are forgetting important facts. Firstly, the GK have not had a solid background until now. Secondly that GW don't always keep consistency correctly. Thirdly, that they have a right to change things and get things wrong. The GK are Space Marines, but are very different to them... firstly they were the FINAL 'gift' of the Emperor before he was placed inside the Golden Throne. Not only is their gene-seed unique compared to other SM, but every one of them is a psyker. Which in 40k is a good and a bad thing. In 40k, a psyker, a single rogue or weak psyker can cause the collapse of entire solar systems and even empires. As I'm sure you are aware, if a pysker is un-trained and unsanctioned, Daemons will flock towards them like moth to a flame, using their pyskic ability to pass from the warp to the mortal realm. However it is a fun and interesting dichotomy... the Grey Knights are amazing and incorruptible against the Warp.... yet they are actually living gateways for the same daemons they strive to destroy. Furthermore, no GK has ever fallen to the temptations of the Warp.

As I said in another post, they were designated Chapter 666 at the start, used unique and powerful weaponary and were very secretive just like the Inquisition. They will sacrifice thousands, if not millions of linoccent lives to protect their secrets... they are also not against killing their Battle Sister allies... 


Thus, that is why they went to help... besides, it could be an "old GK".


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

That wasn't why they were banned. It was because Inquisitors and Grey Knights cannot induct SM's into their ranks for GK/Malleus headed missions; not to mention that an Inquisitor with the rights to call on the Grey Knights would not want to piss of a Chapter by bringing along a second "consultancy", especially as the GK's would only assist in a dire threat, neither would any other chapter for the most part be capable of stopping such a threat.

However, with the reverse allying, that represented them being able to slot in neatly with any TO&E that a Imperial Commander may have when a small strike force of Grey Knights arrives on scene.

As to killing battle sister allies, I suggest you re-evaluate the context that was under, and also remember that Ben Counter writes utter tripe.

In addition - it specifically states for Black Templars (or it did) that Grey Knights were the lone exclusion to the rule of no Psykers due to their reputation.


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## Kettu (Nov 20, 2007)

Troublehalf said:


> "The GK would think of nothing of sacrificng thousands of Battle-Sisters for their pureblood in order to summon a banishing ritual".


"Blood Rituals are perfectly alright and totally *NOT* Chaos, yo! We are so the good guys yo!"



> The fact he used the word "Battle-Sisters" and not "Witch Hunters" made me think that they are indeed coming in line for a juicy update soon, including a renaming from Witch Hunters to Battle-Sisters.


Sisters of Battle have always been known as the Sisters of Battle. Which Hunters was the name of the codex and refers to the Sisters, Ecclesiarchy, Inquisition combination. Adepta Sororitas are the 'Pure' ones, not the inquisition or any other faction.
But yes, current rumours (and what many hope for) is the complete removal of the Inquisition from the next codex.



> I assume the Battle Sisters are the "Visable" aspect of the Inqusition... or at least will be.... their job is to purge renegade pyskers and to clean worlds which are considered heratic or unclean by the Inqusition. While they don't shy away from fighting Daemons, they are nowhere near as powerful as Grey Knights in fighting them. So my guess is, that both the Grey Knights, and what I see as a possible new army of the "Battle-Sisters" using the same Inqusition models, but having their own personal troops and heavy support. While the Grey Knights are small, highly trained, superbly equipped army, the Battle-Sisters are, in comparison, less equipped, but much more rounded than the Grey Knights, able to tank on any foe.


And here is where you go full circle, after talking about how they used the Sisters faction by name and not the inquisiton you then talk about how you assume the Inquisition will remain.

To put it bluntly, The Sisters are *NOT *part of the Inquisition. No Black Library book (All one of them) says this, the total 100 words they got in the BRB dos not say thing, Fantasy Flight Games told fans this outright.
Only the Codex has this point and no other source has ever mentioned it since.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Is it in the new codex that it replaces the Deamonhunter codex? If not technically the DH dex is still legal.


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## RedemptionNL (Feb 23, 2011)

I wouldn't expect the DH codex to hold up on any 'official' tournament. The removal of Daemonhunters from the official website should tell you that much. Besides, has a codex _ever_ explicitly said that it replaced a previous codex, even if it just was last edition's codex for the same army?

For friendly games you can play whatever the hell you like of course, as long as both players agree.


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

mcmuffin said:


> one question. power wise, as an army, are they on par with the boys from Fenris?


Not sure about SW yet, but the games we've been playing with them have wiped the Blood Angels off the board every time...


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Pretty sure it says that you must use the most current version of a rulebook and since there has never been a Codex: Grey Knight there was not a previous version which also means that Deamonhunters has not been replaced. Just because they have the same models in it does not mean they are the same codex.


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## RedemptionNL (Feb 23, 2011)

djinn24 said:


> Pretty sure it says that you must use the most current version of a rulebook and since there has never been a Codex: Grey Knight there was not a previous version which also means that Deamonhunters has not been replaced. Just because they have the same models in it does not mean they are the same codex.


So you think Codex: Ultramarines, Codex: Catachans, Codex: Assassins, Codex Imperialis, Codex: Angels of Death, Codex: Chaos, Codex: Craftworld Eldar and such are all still valid codexes, that haven't been replaced by other codexes too? I'm sure people would love to use 3+ terminator saves on a 2D6 with lascannons that deal 2D6 wounds. :laugh:


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

They sure are.... in second edition games.

I am just bored, I know common sense says no but truthfully in this example where is ti written that it is no longer legal (CH).


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## RedemptionNL (Feb 23, 2011)

Well, Codex: Catachans, Codex: Craftworld Eldar and such are all 3rd edition codexes, just like Codex: Daemonhunters is. They were just as invalided when the 4th editions versions of Codex: Eldar and Codex: Imperial Guard came along, without explicitly saying so.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

As i have not seen the codex yet, well I've seen it but no-ones letting me look in it : ( 

Do they get an official redeemer? 

Are there any non grey knights other than retinues?

is this army going to get completely smashed when battle cannon and other pie plates land? every army list I've seen just seems stupidly small, even compared to CH

Is there any decent ranged anti tank, or are we still using god-hammer land raiders and a dreadnought, even truer without ISTs. (The flying Box kite doesn't exist)


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

Kettu said:


> And here is where you go full circle, after talking about how they used the Sisters faction by name and not the inquisiton you then talk about how you assume the Inquisition will remain.
> 
> To put it bluntly, The Sisters are *NOT *part of the Inquisition. No Black Library book (All one of them) says this, the total 100 words they got in the BRB dos not say thing, Fantasy Flight Games told fans this outright.
> Only the Codex has this point and no other source has ever mentioned it since.


I know all this. My point is, that Sisters of Battle are LINKED to the Inquisition... just like the Grey Knights are, however they are not "part" of them, they are seperate and have their own peersonal agenda. Yet I assume they will be allowed to use Inqusition models, just like the Grey Knighs are now able to, and since they will be part of the GK codex. I didn't say they would remove the Inqusition from the game... all I said was I expect th Sisters of Battle ot use the figures like Death Cult Assasins.

I believe this because, I heard from somebody on here, that GW didn't really want to make the Sisters of Battle army, thus made The Witch Hunters. Now since the GK got updated and have their own troops and background, they still use Inqusition models. I doubt GW wll make a Inqusition army in order to use the figures they already have, I just assume they'll allow them to be bought alongside the Sisters of Battle.

Either way, I am very excited, I shall be ordering some GK (instead of Blood Angel when they are fully released.... but I shall have to finish my huge lizardman army before then


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> Is it in the new codex that it replaces the Deamonhunter codex? If not technically the DH dex is still legal.


There is a list on GWs website somewhere with all the legal codicies in it, it lists the Grey Knights but not the Daemonhunters. I wasn't able to find a link to it but it's there. I'm sure someone here knows what I'm talking about.


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## RedemptionNL (Feb 23, 2011)

Barnster said:


> As i have not seen the codex yet, well I've seen it but no-ones letting me look in it : (
> 
> Do they get an official redeemer?


Yup, and the Crusader as well. You can also give them the Psybolt ammunition upgrade to count the assault cannon as a psycannon, so if you're lucky enough to have the FW LR Redeemer, you can finally play it without using FW rules. 



> Are there any non grey knights other than retinues?


Inquisitors, Assassins and the Inquisitorial Henchmen Warbands, the rest is all GK.



> is this army going to get completely smashed when battle cannon and other pie plates land? every army list I've seen just seems stupidly small, even compared to CH


That's what deep striking, transports, cover saves and such are for.



> Is there any decent ranged anti tank, or are we still using god-hammer land raiders and a dreadnought, even truer without ISTs. (The flying Box kite doesn't exist)


Vindicares, Psybolt ammunition rifleman dreads, psycannons and such should work fine.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

RedemptionNL said:


> Yup, and the Crusader as well. You can also give them the Psybolt ammunition upgrade to count the assault cannon as a psycannon, so if you're lucky enough to have the FW LR Redeemer, you can finally play it without using FW rules.


Incidentally, despite the outdated ruleset, the FW Rules can be more beneficial - despite the lack of access to Psybolts, Psyflame, and Truesilver Armour, (so S7 Assault Cannons and S7 Flamestorms), the old rules have the invulnerable ignoring properties of the old flamestorm purifier cannons - strangely enough being much more beneficial to countering Daemons. 



> That's what deep striking, transports, cover saves and such are for.


Indeed. I believe the army will excel at 3K points - they have enough points to get in the toughies, have multiple threats, and are able to chug out a huge amount of firepower, as well as having a semi Deathstar unit.




> Vindicares, Psybolt ammunition rifleman dreads, psycannons and such should work fine.


Less Rifleman Dread, Rifleman VenDreads and to back them up a Techmarine with an Orbital Relay. Stick in cover, 3+ Cover Save, Reroll Damage results you don't want, and a psychic test to ignore the results of Shaken and Stunned, while the Techmarine has a 75% chance to fix any Weapon Destroyed or Immobilized results, and still bring down a S10 AP1 Lance Strike every turn (even if the hole doesn't hit the vehicle, its still S10), while the two ven dreads are pumping out 8 Twin Linked BS5 S8 Shots a turn between them. It's fucking brutal, although tops out at about 550pts rather than the 400 of triple Rifleman Dread, but neither does it mess with your ability to take Dreadknights or Land Raiders.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

If you want to be really nasty you can take 2 HQ and 3 Techmarines all with Orbital Relays.
If you dont move you can then fire the Barrage Bomb S6 AP4 Large Blast, D3 pie plates, or Lance Strike S10 Ap1 Heavy 1, Lance, Blast** Whole template counts as center.
Or if you are fighting other Grey Knights the Psyk-out Bomb with S6 Ap3, Ordinance 1, Large Blast and all psykers hit take perils


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

That's 250pts on just the upgrades, and 870pts in total, not to mention precludes the use of Librarians and Champions (better than GM's - everyone's hung up on Scout Shunt currently, I don't think it's that effective when people learn how to prioritize, much like against Lash and Leafblower), and you canot move, lose Venerable Dreadnoughts, Purifiers, Assassins, and Paladins.

For fun, maybe, particularly if you knew you were facing a horde army you could do that, and just bring down 5-15 S6 AP4 Blast Templates on the first turn.

I'd hope you enjoy bringing along your 2 5 Man Strike Squads though.

Psyk Out Bombs are AP4, not AP3, and you'd be better off bringing down the D3 Templates, more accurate that way.


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## Erzbrecht (Feb 16, 2011)

who were the original 8 grandmasters?


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Psyk Out Bombs are AP4, not AP3, and you'd be better off bringing down the D3 Templates, more accurate that way.


I know, I was typing it from the dex but pressed the wrong button it seems 

Still, 5-15 large templates is just nasty. Then again they always scatter...


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Erzbrecht said:


> who were the original 8 grandmasters?


I dont know all of them but one was definately called Flash


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

so then, is the allies rule gone, or is it still there (imagines sw with a unit of gk termies) :victory:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Gone going. Thank fuck.


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## Mathai (Sep 1, 2010)

MadCowCrazy said:


> Still, 5-15 large templates is just nasty. Then again they always scatter...


But Servo Skulls still reduce the scatter yes? And since they are counters, they dont have to worry about a lance strike to the noggin am I right?


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

MadCowCrazy said:


> There is a list on GWs website somewhere with all the legal codicies in it, it lists the Grey Knights but not the Daemonhunters. I wasn't able to find a link to it but it's there. I'm sure someone here knows what I'm talking about.


LOL I knew there was a simple answer somewhere. Thanks MCC.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> LOL I knew there was a simple answer somewhere. Thanks MCC.


Basically it's a list for the tournament GW runs, basically you are not allowed to bring the old Daemonhunters and all those other obsolete dexes there.
It doesn't exactly say that codex Daemonhunters is obsolete, it just doesn't mention it as an allowed codex for the GW sponsored tournament.

It's on their site, I just cant find it anymore.



I just had a really messed up dream, I was dreaming about the new GK codex and I was trying to explain the game to some random dude. I looked up the rules for Killa Kans in the GK codex and it had the special rule that each turn "a history writer/collector for Hitler would spawn beyond the vision slits of the Killa Kan". I ended up trying to figure out where the hell you would place this character since it said "beyond the vision slits", does that mean behind the KK or just in front and below it? After a while with having hot sexy time with 2 girls I came across Azirya Kyras and he was trying to kill me. I opened a bag an in it was a broken Landspeeder and I said something in the lines of "AH! Now it makes sense, this is the evidence needed to declare Kyras hereticus"! He of course did not approve and infected me with some kind of zombie plague which I then ran around and infected others with just for giggles.

Ahhh, welcome to my brain train straight to *derp derp* town...
I had been sending around emails to a podcast and beasts of war about the things in the GK codex that will need to be FAQd and I remember in my dream I was pissed off because of the KK thing, now I would have to send another email about the Hitler historian and the vision slits of the KK.
Hey, dont judge me, it made perfect sense in my dream for there to be Killa Kanz in the GK codex...


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## abitterbuffalo (May 7, 2009)

MadCowCrazy said:


> I just had a really messed up dream,


Speaking of weird, 40k dreams. I had one about a Warhammer 40k summer camp. It was held at some church camp grounds up in the woods. Basically the camp was to teach kids how to play 40k, as well as provide workshops for the hobby side. Me and a couple buddies of mine were out scouting around for bits (you know, random pieces and parts from other models) for a scavenger hunt. I kept picking up pieces for my Grey Knights, things that I wish I had in real life. Certain weapons and heraldry that, in my dream, I thought would fit the GKs perfectly. It's funny because now that I'm looking back on it, I'm kind of bummed I wasn't able to keep what I found in the dream.

Off the thread's topic, I apologize, but some times I feel like masses of people should know what happens in my life. It's a pretty crazy ride.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Mathai said:


> But Servo Skulls still reduce the scatter yes? And since they are counters, they dont have to worry about a lance strike to the noggin am I right?


I'd originally thought about that. However, it states "always scatter 2D6"" in the entry.

@ MCC - the fuck is wrong with you?


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## Kalishnikov-47 (Jun 4, 2008)

When it says always scatters it means if you roll a hit on the scatter dice you follow the arrow on the hit symbol. So yes, you can use Servo Skulls to subtract a d6 from the distance. Which is why the say it in parenthesis, to clarify what they mean by always scatter, meaning it will scatter no matter what. 

It sounds pretty clear to me, just need to be in range of a servo skull.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

What do servo-skulls do?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

@Kalashnikov - I'd say no. I'd want it to be that good, but no the quote states (sorry for the paraphrase before) - "always scatter the full 2D6" in the direction shown (if a hit is rolled, they scatter in the direction of the small arrow on the "hit" symbol)."

"Always scatter the full 2D6" is fairly conclusive.

They are an option for several HQ choices along with a Techmarine, and 1-3 may be taken for each of those, and are just too cheap to not take. They are probably the best 5pt item EVER.

Each one has a 12" bubble within which enemy infiltrators cannot set up, enemy scouts cannot set up within 12" using their pregame move. Friendly's DSing within 12", roll D6 less for scatter, as, do friendly Blast Templates originally placed within 12" of the Servo Skull.

For the same price as an IG advisor, you can effectively stop all enemy scout moves (even turbo boosts) and Infiltration. There's throwing a spanner in the works, and then there's taking a heaping great dump.

Of course, they're destroyed if an enemy unit moves within 6", then the servo skull is removed from play.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Whats the point in taking more than 1 for the same guy?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

They're counters and you get to place them all over the battlefield, they're not placed on the model - IIRC, similar to the Chooser of the Slain for Nijal.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Here is the rule for them.
Servo-skulls are treated as counters, rather than units for all intents and purposes. They are placed on the battlefield after deployment areas have been determined, but before any forces are deployed. Each servo-skull can be placed anywhere on the battlefield OUTSIDE THE ENEMY'S DEPLOYMENT ZONE. Once deployed, Servo-skulls do not move.

Enemy infiltrators cannot set up within 12" of a servo-skull. Similarly, enemy scouts cannot use their pre-game move to approach to within 12" of one. A friendly unit arriving by Deep Strike rolls one D6 less for scatter if it aims to arrive within 12" of a Servo-skull. Likewise, friendly blast templates placed within 12" of a Servo-skull roll one D6 less for scatter.

Servo-skulls are considered too small and agile to be attacked and cannot be harmed in any way. However, should an enemy unit move to within 6" then the servo-skull will self-destruct or flee the battlefield - remove it from play.

So you have to place them on your side of the board, they dont mess with daemons deepstriking or any other unit deepstriking. What they do do is mess with scouts and infiltrators so the Stormtrooper Vendetta strike wont work if you put out a few of these.

Guestion, can you scout move straight over one of them if the scout move ends more than 12" away from the skull? If you say did a 36" turbo boost scout move?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I think what's intended is that the shot is always intended to scatter even if you roll a hit, but not always scatter the full distance. Clumsy wording on their part.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

MadCowCrazy said:


> So you have to place them on your side of the board


Well, outside of the enemies 12" Deployment - and so that they're not automatically destroyed once an enemy places a unit, keep them 7" or more away from their leading edge.



> they dont mess with daemons deepstriking or any other unit deepstriking.


No - it only effects friendlies. However, you have Massed Warp Quake AND Coteaz, it gets fruity - check this for a tactic..

Quake half the board, leave only a small area for the enemy to DS in assuredly, then have Coteaz on board a Chimera with 5 Psykers, a Mystic, a Banisher, and a choice of 3 from the Weaponsmith, Servitor, and Warrior Acolytes, all close to a Servo Skull. That forces an enemy to Deep Strike near to Coteaz, at which point Coteaz allows him and his unit to crack off a S8 AP1 Large Blast, which rolls D6 less for scatter, while the Banisher then has a good chance of forcing the enemy to reroll succesful Invulnerable Saves, and then either drop on some Rending Heavy Flamers, Plasma Cannons again, affected by the Blast reroll), or Meltagun/Flamer/Plasma Shots). If they are capable of assaulting, such as Heroic Initiative, Coteaz pulls out his Sanctuary, causing them to take Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests, and then in the following turn, they get to drive in close, so that the banisher definately works, the unit gets to shoot again.

You can also abuse Communion so that you Alpha Strike the enemy Deep Strikers with something filthy like a Paladin Squad with 2 Psycannons and Psybolts (6x S5 AP5, and 8x S7 AP4 shots) to also join in.

And, not including the Grey Knights - how much would that come in at? 290pts.

FOr shiggles, if, as people are saying - the Scatter is always scatter direction, rather than always scatter distance (I personally don't think so, as I'm looking at the Chapter Master for SM, who's similar ability does not allow the modification of distance by BS, but even so), you can, for 140pts, bring down a S10 AP1 Lance Strike as part of that cheezy fucking unit.

Fancy Copying it?

Coteaz
Henchmen Squad - 5 Psykers, Mystic, Banisher, 3 Servitors, each with Plasma Cannon, Chimera
Techmarine, Orbital Strike Relay, Servo Skull(s).



> What they do do is mess with scouts and infiltrators so the Stormtrooper Vendetta strike wont work if you put out a few of these.


Indeed. 



> Guestion, can you scout move straight over one of them if the scout move ends more than 12" away from the skull? If you say did a 36" turbo boost scout move?


Nope. It states "cannot use their pre-game move to *approach* within 12". It's a bit hard to explain, but basically, if you take 6, you interlap all the 12" radius on a standard 6x4 board, and deploy them in such a way that units capable of a scout move, previously deployed at the 12" line who use their scout move, are limited to 7" forward off of their base line. Funny as fook.


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## Caliban (Nov 27, 2010)

what do the force helberds do?


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## Arias (Jan 8, 2011)

Caliban said:


> what do the force helberds do?


 Add +2 initiative.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Caliban said:


> what do the force helberds do?


You were told yesterday after having your thread locked that the explicit asking for rules was a nono.


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## Arias (Jan 8, 2011)

Vaz said:


> You were told yesterday after having your thread locked that the explicit asking for rules was a nono.


 Woops, sorry, didn't mean to feed the troll.

Do what you will to me...unish:


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## Caliban (Nov 27, 2010)

I'm sorry but i see no difference in asking what the rule is to you earlier confirming that DK has 2 nemesis doom fists, one of which can be swapped for one of 2 weapons, which you then went on to list the rules of.


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

I've got an awesome conversion in mind using Sevrin Loth combined with the GK sprue, my question is though, can GK librarians take power armor or not. Please tell me they can as I reckon Sevrin Loth would look fucking ace in GK colors with a force halberd.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

tu_shan82 said:


> I've got an awesome conversion in mind using Sevrin Loth combined with the GK sprue, my question is though, can GK librarians take power armor or not. Please tell me they can as I reckon Sevrin Loth would look fucking ace in GK colors with a force halberd.


They can't. Sorry.


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

tu_shan82 said:


> I've got an awesome conversion in mind using Sevrin Loth combined with the GK sprue, my question is though, can GK librarians take power armor or not. Please tell me they can as I reckon Sevrin Loth would look fucking ace in GK colors with a force halberd.


What Katie said. You could use him as a sick justicar for a squad of Purifiers?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Catpain Rich said:


> What Katie said. You could use him as a sick justicar for a squad of Purifiers?


Or Crowe. That's about it, unfortunately.


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## abitterbuffalo (May 7, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Or Crowe. That's about it, unfortunately.


I can see myself using Crowe's model as a Champion more than Crowe himself. He's better looking than the old Justicar model. Same thing with using a helmeted Draigo as a Grand Master. I quite like the new sculpts.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Or Crowe. That's about it, unfortunately.


Why waste it on that tripe, whose only use is to get Purifiers? Brotherhood Champion all the way.


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## callred (Jun 24, 2008)

abitterbuffalo said:


> I can see myself using Crowe's model as a Champion more than Crowe himself. He's better looking than the old Justicar model. Same thing with using a helmeted Draigo as a Grand Master. I quite like the new sculpts.


you'd just need to sort out the Draigo only one who can have a storm shield thing sadley :no:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

It could count as a Null Rod or a Paladin Apothecary. Or hell, as Draigo himself. He's expensive, but not exactly weak for that.


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## abitterbuffalo (May 7, 2009)

callred said:


> you'd just need to sort out the Draigo only one who can have a storm shield thing sadley :no:


I can just give him a different arm... lord knows I'll have spares lying around. I magnetize my models, so if I wanted to, I could switch out for Draigo/GM whenever I need.

I'm going to be doing the same thing with all of my PAGK so I can use them as Purifier, Strike, Interceptor, or Purgation Squads.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Vaz said:


> Why waste it on that tripe, whose only use is to get Purifiers? Brotherhood Champion all the way.


Because Purifiers are awesome and a Purifiers-as-Troops army concept is a strong one. Also, Crowe isn't half as bad as he seems. Not being an Independent Character is unfortunate and does cut down on his utility some, but he's far from a bad character. The normal Brotherhood Champion really isn't my thing.


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## HatingYou (Oct 10, 2010)

Crowe is the biggest pimp in the codex! 

His charm makes up for the profile imo
plus he unlocks purifiers to troops which is totally sexy.
I like the way he isn't totally stupid with rape rules
he's simple and will do the job I think.


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