# Blood Angels Don't Have Cents?!



## HokieHWT (Dec 8, 2013)

I just bought the BA codex and realized they don't have centurions. Why the hell not?! Do I have to get the SM Codex to use them? If so that's crap.


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## Battman (Nov 2, 2012)

Yes thats correct, no idea why but they have kept that to standard/unmarked marines something to do with the specific hapters such as the space wolves and bloodangels. They just don't get those units they get specialists of their own.

Best be would be if you need centurions ally them in through spacemarines basically idea would, be small squad of scouts, a cheap HQ and as many centurions you need.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Bruh we (since I am most obviously a member of the IXth) don't need 'em. Plenty of toys those vanilla suckers can't have in our coffers.

EDIT: wait, no idea why? We got strained ties with the Mechanicum over the Baal Predator (among other things I think). BA have never had the same toys. See also: Stormtalons, Land Speeder Storms, Hunter/Stalker tanks. To name a few off the top of my head.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Battman said:


> Best be would be if you need centurions ally them in through spacemarines basically idea would, be small squad of scouts, a cheap HQ and as many centurions you need.


Assuming you mean an allied detachment, the most your getting is one squad of devestator centurions and one squad of assault centurions. You want/need a CAD for a lot of centurions.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

BA don't have them since if you did, you'd be even more obviously 'regular Marines but plain shittier'.

I mean really, when you can have Hit and Run or Tank Hunters, why would you ever EVER want Furious Charge on Centurions? Hell, why would you ever ever want Furious Charge on Centurions anyway?


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

darkreever said:


> Assuming you mean an allied detachment, the most your getting is one squad of devestator centurions and one squad of assault centurions. You want/need a CAD for a lot of centurions.


If you use Sentinels of Terra (Imperial Fist supplement) you can run two sets of Dev Centurions, one as Elite and one as Heavy, in an Allied. That's the best you can do.

To @HokieHWT - It's as listed above. Every marine chapter with its own codex is different, otherwise they wouldn't need their own Codex.

Blood Angels get fast tanks, Death Company, Furiosos and (my all time favorite) Librarian Dreadnoughts.

Dark Angels get Ravenwing speeders, their own fliers, unique terminators.

Space Wolves get, well, wolves. Also character dreadnoughts, the Stormfang, and more wolves.

Vanilla Marines get Centurions, Hunters, Stalkers, and Land Speeder Storms.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

Xabre said:


> If you use Sentinels of Terra (Imperial Fist supplement) you can run two sets of Dev Centurions, one as Elite and one as Heavy, in an Allied. That's the best you can do.
> 
> To @HokieHWT - It's as listed above. Every marine chapter with its own codex is different, otherwise they wouldn't need their own Codex.
> 
> ...


Can't agree more with this. 
If they all had the same units you might as well have "Codex: space marines" with chapter tactics and the likes for BA, etc. instead of seperate codexes.


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## HokieHWT (Dec 8, 2013)

But centurions are standard issue gear, like terminator armor. It does not make sense that chapters in the first founding would not have access to every available piece of vanilla wargear. They have special units to enhance and separate themselves.

I'll look into Imperial Fist as allies.

Thanks!


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Because BA's have enough bullshit (that isn't over-priced) available to them as it is?


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

HokieHWT said:


> But centurions are standard issue gear, like terminator armor. It does not make sense that chapters in the first founding would not have access to every available piece of vanilla wargear. They have special units to enhance and separate themselves.
> 
> I'll look into Imperial Fist as allies.
> 
> Thanks!


No, *TERMINATORS *are standard issue gear, and based on the fluff, they're rare pieces that they no longer have access to craft. All Terminator armor is hand me downs.

Centurion armor is something that was created almost as a fill in for terminator armor. It's like Iron man building different Marks of his armor. No one would ever call Hulkbuster the same as the standard suits. 

The chapters that conform most closely to the rules of the Codex Astartes get into strong alliances with the Priests of Mars, so they have access to (as you call it) 'standard gear'. But Blood Angels keep their own secrets (read the fluff for Stormravens in last codex, or all the Baal-pattern tanks). Dark Angels keep more secrets than anyone, and the Wolves have NEVER played nice with the second foundings and onwards. Therefore, newer toys, like Centurion armor have been held back, and they invent their own tech.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Orochi said:


> Because BA's have enough bullshit (that isn't over-priced) available to them as it is?


They have the Baal Motor Pool (allied detachment of a Divination Librarian, 5 Scouts and 6 Drop Pods), and _that's basically it_ over basic Marines.

Frankly, BA could have Centurions for all I care, it's no way near enough to drive them over the top into the realms of planet-destroying overpowered'ness.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> They have the Baal Motor Pool (allied detachment of a Divination Librarian, 5 Scouts and 6 Drop Pods), and _that's basically it_ over basic Marines.
> 
> Frankly, BA could have Centurions for all I care, it's no way near enough to drive them over the top into the realms of planet-destroying overpowered'ness.


Was more thinking along the lines of dedicated, Fearless assault troops; Fast vehicles; a unique predator; strong characters; dedicated assault dreadnaughts; 2+ Save Jump Troops.

I don't think 400ish points for 3 Obliterator wannabes should be a concern for BA players xD


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

^ gets it :laugh:


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

Can I have Librarian Dreadnoughts? PLEEEEEASE?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Orochi said:


> Was more thinking along the lines of dedicated, Fearless assault troops;


Granted. 3+ armour with Feel No Pain isn't quite as strong a defence I'd like for the points cost, but Death Company are actually pretty good, I forgot about 'em. Personally, not as strong as Honour Guard, but certainly a good counter-assault unit.



Orochi said:


> Fast vehicles;


That cost 10/45pts more than our vehicles (Battle Company, natch - I'll take my tanks at a 50pt discount for losing Fast, thanks). Outside the BC, do you really _need_ your Rhinos to be Fast? I've never found myself thinking 'man, I really wish these transports were Fast Vehicles'. It's helpful for Razorbacks, sure, but if you're running any appreciable amount of Razorbacks it's probably in a Battle Company, and paying for Lucifer engines makes them even pricier than they already are - 85pts for an AV11/11/10 vehicle with no kind of additional defences is an awful lot.



Orochi said:


> a unique predator;


Which I've seen on the table precisely zero times - maybe it's just weirdly unpopular around here, but I've yet to see a compelling reason that the Baal pattern is any better than the regular Predator (or even just better by a large enough degree to get taken).



Orochi said:


> strong characters;


If you mean strong as in individually powerful, you can kit up an Iron Hands or White Scars Chapter Master to be a bigger beatstick than I think any BA characters (I don't really see any BA characters other than token Librarians and Priests, so I'm just remembering what I read about them when the new Codex dropped). If you mean in terms of army support (which is what really matters with characters), then I don't think there's any contest; Khan, Tigurius and Lias Issodon are some of the strongest characters _in 40k_, let alone between SM and BA.



Orochi said:


> dedicated assault dreadnaughts;


Which hilariously are _worse_ in melee than regular Marine dreadnoughts. White Scars or Salamanders Ironclads shit all over the Furioso dreads - I think Furiosos _should_ be better, but having half as many base attacks and no Chapter Tactics really kills them.



Orochi said:


> 2+ Save Jump Troops.


Yeah, but at 33pts each? You can buy Vanguard with a Power Weapon or Lightning Claw and a Jump Pack for 27pts, and while a 2+ save is certainly nothing to be sniffed at, Fleet and replacing FC with Chapter Tactics is a pretty big deal as well as being significantly cheaper. Sanguinary Guard also have no access to any kind of Invuln, which can lead them into some really bad fights very quickly, while Vanguard can at least partially mitigate that by screening some Storm Shield bearers at the front of the unit. It's getting towards an apples to oranges comparison, but between Honour Guard (25pts for a Sanguinary Guard without the Jump Pack with an extra attack, slightly worse pre-assault firepower, and again swapping Furious Charge for the more versatile Chapter Tactics).



Orochi said:


> I don't think 400ish points for 3 Obliterator wannabes should be a concern for BA players xD


Obliterators wish they were as good as Centurions 

This isn't intended to beat on BA players; I'm sure you can and do win with them, and enjoy them as an army; but I don't think there's any way you can argue that they win out over regular Marines.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

You could always paint Ravenguard red. With the new stuff in the Damocles book, you can make some decent Assault Marine - heavy armies.


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## HokieHWT (Dec 8, 2013)

I was told by a GT champion that the best blood angels are red painted marines...

So I bought the SM Codex, building grav cents as I type this. What is the best chest weapon, bolters?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

HokieHWT said:


> So I bought the SM Codex, building grav cents as I type this. What is the best chest weapon, bolters?


Yeah, I forget they even _have_ chest weapons 90% of the time so go for the free option.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

MidnightSun said:


> This isn't intended to beat on BA players





MidnightSun said:


> BA don't have them since if you did, you'd be even more obviously 'regular Marines but plain shittier'.





MidnightSun said:


> They have the Baal Motor Pool (allied detachment of a Divination Librarian, 5 Scouts and 6 Drop Pods), and that's basically it over basic Marines.


:laugh: Not intended/entirely intended.

No one is saying BA are better than SM, just that BA players don't need/want the toys.



HokieHWT said:


> I was told by a GT champion that the best blood angels are red painted marines...


Yeah, BA aren't what you play to win with at Tournaments. Marines will do it better with that Skyhammer Annihilation Force fer sure.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

ntaw said:


> No one is saying BA are better than SM, just that BA players don't need/want the toys.


I said I wasn't beating up Blood Angel _players_, I'll take some strips off their _codex_ any day :wink:


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

I was pointing out this whole comparison was started and executed by you. Kinda like this:










But, you know....not as cartoonish and clearly more manly :biggrin:


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