# Not a lot of warhammer players



## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

I have found there is not a lot of warhammer players, in the club i am in and on Heresy. I wanted to know why.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Well, for the most part, Heresy Online is STILL a 40K site. This is slowly changing though, and any help you can offer to support that change is greatly appreciated.

In my area, WHFB is the larger of the two, but most of the local gamers are nearing, or are well within, their 30's.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

i think 40k will remain the most popular as it is the system gw use to drag the kids through the doors and get them into tabletop games because it is the simpler of the 2 systems. added to the fact that it is also more time consumming and although not generally true looks more expensive as any one who collects a marine army will tell you that after paying through the nose for a relatively low figure count the 100 plus models needed for a basic army make your wallet run and hide and your paint brush want a holiday. I know that in general a fantasy army is cheaper but then i started with fantasy


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Not anymore, neilbatte.... Take a look at the current pricing for VC Skellies verses the previous box... It is a bit ridiculous. GW is sucking their consumers dry at every turn.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

thankfully i havent looked at the recent prices as i have an unatural aversion to whatever the newest release armies happen to be and prefer to play armies that have been ignored for ages like ogres or chaos dwarves much more satisfying when you win


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

LOL.... a new box of Blood Knights for the VC cost more than smaller army boxes did back in the day when I first began, lol.

It really is cheaper to sculpt and cast your own models now, lol.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

when i started you could get thirty imperial guard for £10 and the lead models came in blisters of 5 so you didnt have to buy in extra blister to make an even unit. I still have a dragon that is metal looks better than most of the new ones and cost a third of the price, ahh the good old days its just a shame that the rules then were a nightmare to understand that only the seriously geeky kids could play the game


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Ha! I recently converted my metal dragon to a sea serpent and gave it to my daughter as a gift.... She loves the thing. And, I agree, the old metal dragons look a bit better than the newer plastic dragons. Something just gets lost in the transition.


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Really? I have an old dragon and it looks horrific. I like the new dragon more although quite enough to buy one.

I do agree that 40k appears to be more popular due to the popularity that it enjoys with the younger lot.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

I always thought that was odd, as I started with Fantasy...


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Funnily enough I was the complete opposite. I didn't even hear about fantasy until I started playing 40k.

I don't know if you remember but there was a pamphlet that GW printed with the same cover as the 3rd ed 40k book and it had a brief overview of fantasy and 40k. Fantasy was in 5th ed and 40k was in 3rd ed at the time. I must have read this little tattered thing about 20 times before I went to a GW store.

Ah the good old days!


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## Trigger (Mar 12, 2008)

I started with Fantasy Dwarfs. Goblobber anyone? I thought about starting again but for me Historic is the way I'd want to go


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## DarknessDawns (Oct 21, 2007)

i have to agree that warhammer 40k is more popular, but warhamer fantasy is great because we dont get so much of those annoying kids , so when we play someone they usually know how to play, the are mature about it and they are in there for a good game, thats what makes the two different for me though


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

If you tell 100 people about the 3 gw games, 40k, fantasy and lotr, just giving them a brief cool overview of what the games about, each with equal vigor and virve then 66% of people will choose 40k as there first try at the game. There's obviously something about guns and tanks and aliens that gets people off.

Also Warhammer fantasy takes more commitment from a gamer in order to proper get into the hobby. They need more models[doesn't mean they cost more than 40k equivilent] therefore they have more to glue and paint, and the models are more difficult, in general to paint. 

Also the rules are the most complex of the 3 games, while whilst being the appeal for most of us, is also a hinderance for some who will start out the hobby but never quite follow it through


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

i'm starting to play fantasy a lot more now mainly because the rule changes between each edition are less drastic ( although i still usually forget the magic phase since it was moved) and even though it seems every 40k edition is dumbing down there is just to many different rules old and new for me to bother to try and learn or forget as applicable added to that most of the 40k gamers i've met since i've moved are really irritating (that may just be me getting old)


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## Imperial Dragon (Dec 22, 2007)

i have always liked fantasy more but i found it so hard to work out what army i liked, i got into 40k, for fun joking around games play 40k and more serious i say fantasy.

Oh and LoTR's that has a good system, quite fun sometimes to and it's that bad to watch.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

I think it is about the price of the models. A 2000 point army will cost about 220 pounds for warhammer. For 40k a army of 2000 point will cost about 150 pounds, I started on 40k and then on to warhammer


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

I find LoTR abit boring, it is the fact it takes so longe to play, 20 turns and over


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Green Knight said:


> I find LoTR abit boring, it is the fact it takes so longe to play, 20 turns and over


I found LotR to be a nice fun game that flowed quite well but I don't really like it that much myself.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Is it because warhammer is harder to play


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

The slightly more complex rules probably put off the casual gamer.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

but it is werth it


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

the rules are slightly more complex but you only have to learn them once as the basic rules have stayed fairly constant with fairly minor tweaks the biggest over the last 3 editions being the magic phase but at least mordhiem broke that in fairly gently unlike the total changes that 40k has and is experiencing where the whole focus of the game changes from edition to edition and people rarely complain that their new army book has ruined their army( its normaly everyone elses new army book that does that )


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Yeah... I've noticed that the game becomes difficult when 40K receives a new rule book. Things go topsy-turvy for a while as the entire game is readjusting.

For WHFB, the issue is the idiotic paper/scissors/rock concept of army book power-creep that GW continues. One army book is released, and 3 others then become obsolete.

I'd love to see GW actually stop swinging from one extreme to another. A bit of balance would be better for the hobby, and GW's bottom line.


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## heliosmj12 (Mar 30, 2008)

swntzu said:


> The slightly more complex rules probably put off the casual gamer.


that is true, they are confusing. But what is annoying they are dumbing down the rules for 40k for the younger players because they are the majority.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

I do not mind the rules being complex, because the game is more than worth it. I like the magic phase


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

That is why i like warhammer more because of the magic phase

any other views, why there are Not a lot of warhammer players.
can I put this on 40k section as well


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

You should not, but you are free to link to this post if you like. 

Please be so kind as to NOT repeatedly post after yourself if you can simply use the 'edit' function. Standard board etiquette and all, you understand, lol... Thanks.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

sorry about the repeat posting, How to do the link

Amy other views


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Any other views, on why there is not alot warhammer players


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

Our fantasy support is growing and the more interesting and active our fantasy section is the more it will attract the attention of lurkers and potential new members as well as 40K only gamers. So (Jez impersonation) POST MORE.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

The rules for fantasy are sort of... um... pretentious, and overly complicated in some areas.
That's my guess anyways.


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## Rhamag (Jun 5, 2008)

Has anyone heard about the "70% Law"? It goes that 70% of GW sales is for 40K, and 70% of 40K sales are Space Marines. I haven't seen any hard facts to bacl this up, but it doesn't sound unreasonable.

Taking that into account, it seems logical that Heresy-Online has more 40k players than Fantasy players.

As to why more people are buying and plyaing 40k, I wouldn't like to guess! I play both systems (and LotR sometimes) and enjoy them all for different reasons. I don't prefer any above any other.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Keep the posts up people on the fantasy section, any other views


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## Shadwell (Apr 29, 2008)

At my store alot of young children are starting to begin the hobby, all of them went for 40K space marines.... *roll eyes*

That and apparently the rules are more "complex" and the younger kids, and i guess most people in general can't be bothered thinking about things properly and are content running in and shooting stuff.


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## Rhamag (Jun 5, 2008)

Perhaps it's simply that more people prefer playing a wargame which is more like modern warfare, which (despite the obvious faults) 40k does much more realistically than Fantasy. Perhaps blocks of infantry just aren't as appealing as loose squads with guns.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Rhamag said:


> Perhaps it's simply that more people prefer playing a wargame which is more like modern warfare, which (despite the obvious faults) 40k does much more realistically than Fantasy. Perhaps blocks of infantry just aren't as appealing as loose squads with guns.




I like the ancient aspects, however, some things are a bother... Lack of Sight for one. Having units which, especially in the wee tournament games, are basically unkillable is another. Face it in a 1750 pt game, you're not going to have enough characters who can harm things which can only be affected by magical attacks. They're going to chew up an army while the rest of the opponents army is killing the characters you'd otherwise use to kill the unkillable unit.


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## Ragnos (Mar 27, 2008)

Hmm well in the nearest GW store that i go to almost every saturday if i'm not busy, well that store has alot of players for both 40k and fantasy, but some of the lord of the rings stuff have not been replaced for about 6months now... no one buys it. quite sad to see a whole section of the store collecting dust...


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

On Lord of the Rings-- it's a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE game system. The models are great, and they're fun to paint since you can do a pretty good job on 'em and not be bothered with an insane amount of detail-- and they're the same scale as D&D minis, so you can quite affordably stock your D&D group with Orcs, Goblins, and City Guard types. The GW-written rules, on the other hand, are good for rolling paper, and that's about it. What they probably should have done is make LotR the kiddie market game, and have absurdly simple rules that at least resemble 40k and Fantasy as far as basic mechanics go. It'd actually sell, then, I think. As it stands, I'm able to pick up a Balrog for 10 USD off of the store shelf because they need the shelf space for 40k and Fantasy and REAPER MODELS which outsell LotR. 

Interestingly enough, WHFB outsells 40k. The 4th Edition release sort of screwed GW financially-- Apocalypse was really brilliant because they didn't have to lift a finger rules development-wise, but put out a really strong incentive to buy more 40k. Apocalypse sort of evened that balance. 

GW staffers are INSTRUCTED to point children towards 40k, and everyone else towards Fantasy. I think that's sort of silly-- 40k may be less complicated rules-wise, but it certainly has the potential to be an extremely tactical game. Fantasy forces the tactical aspect upon you, whereas in 40k, if both players are morons and want to run screaming forward, the game doesn't really punish you. Try that in Fantasy sometime, and see what happens...

My experience has been that children are more drawn to Fantasy, oddly enough. As a little kid, I certainly thought knights and wizards and all that stuff was a lot cooler than super space nazis and giant aliens.

I kind of think GW is insane to be marketing 40k to children, purely because of the background of the universe. Fantasy may be sort of dark, but it's sort of classic Middle Ages sort of dark, and not "If you say the Emperor isn't a god, we're going to crucify you, then we're going to crucify everyone else on the planet, and then we're going to virus bomb it from low orbit." I may be old-fashioned, but I'd be really scared if I heard an eight-year-old talking about committing what our society would consider pretty hardcore war crimes like it was cool.


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## cox61171 (Jan 10, 2007)

My experience is that our local GW actually told me (and I was 30 years old at the time) that I wouldn't understand Warhammer and should therefore play 40k first, which even though I was quite insulted by that fact, I therefore went ahead and learnt 40k. After 2 years of solid 40k gameplay I was ready for something new and learnt Warhammer and have never looked back. It's this sort of attitude that puts people off, I run my own club and when I first joined it was 90% 40k, now it is very much 50-50 as people have seen more Warhammer, fancied giving it a go and have learnt.

IMHO it is a much better, more challenging game that more youngsters should have a go at, as for LOTR, well GW better luck next time eh!,


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## Mithras (May 8, 2008)

I don't understand this warhammer is more complex stuff. While sixteen years isn't exactly the young end of the market, all it takes is a reasonable amount of time reading the book, reading some sections a couple of times over and being reminded about things for your first half dozen games. And Warhammer 40k isn't exactly child friendly either I mean the empire basically runs on the inquisition. The only vaguely non-child friendly fluff in WFB is found in the dark elves and Slanesh and both are mirrored in 40k.
As a child (or when I was younger) fantasy always appealed more to me. I say take their nights in shining armour and give them an infantry based Bretonian army!


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

I used to favour fantasy to 40k but not anymore. The reason for this was becuase of the more complex rules.


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## angels of fire (Dec 4, 2007)

For some reason in white dwarf I prefer the fantasy battle reports than the 40k ones. The 25th anniversary battle report was twice as good as the december apocalypse one. Having said I've just been converted to fantasy and find the models a lot cooler and the general fluff a bit lighter in tone to 40k.


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Fantasy is still appealing, its just..

In the world of "creativity and wonder" I always leaned towards the more futuristic, more "advanced" possibilities.

Warhammer Fantasy is something I wish to try something, though. 

Although I'd prefer to have a bolter over a shoddy old brace of pistols, old-style magic and chivalry are always immensely appealing.


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## Druchii in Space (Apr 7, 2008)

Same reason FPS' are probably the biggest selling genre in PC/Console land, boys especially of the GW 'target' age love big guns and blowing stuff up. So 40K is always gonna be the top dog. 

I'd reckon there are more vets Fantasy side though, and all the best campaigns I've run seem to be fantasy in nature. I'd also say a good Fantasy player can maintain a win record much easier than a good 40K player, as the focus on movement and tactics is stronger and they can counter act most foes with good planning. Theres certainly a lot less of the equivilent crazy things like the fluke one shot explosion of a Land Raider on the 1st turn in 40K. I Think the closest to a warhammer equivilent is a Lord getting owned by a Cannonshot in the first round, but this seems to be a very rare event in Warhammer, where as in 40K it seems like every other battle I play, a key unit of the battleplan is lost on turn one due to the concentration of long ranged weaponry.

Saying all that I probably prefer 40K overall though, but Fantasy is a very close second.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

With the new mod ancient tiel a fier, thing might change on the forum. Like the warhammer setion might get bigger


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

i bet petrol was only 50p a litre a penny sweets were actually a penny.

Heresy is a 40k site firstly with the fantasy section for those of us who collect both. Myself and jez have often talked about it, and really it will always remain pre-dominantly 40k with its web addy being 40k based, as thats where the majority users will come from.


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## Shadowfane (Oct 17, 2007)

My opinion? I think 40k is a more forgiving game - its easier to recover from a mistake when you don't have to worry about wheeling, march moves, charge distances, and everyone has a ranged weapon of some description.
Warhammer (to me, at least) has always seemed like a game of chess in that you have to think several moves in advance: quite frankly, whilst you need to do the same in 40K, you don't need to do it to nearly the same extent, and some armies don't need to do it at all (I'm looking at you, Space Marines....).
My preference is for Warhammer, although I do play both.
And for the OP who said that GW staff are told to encourage younger players towards 40K, if they do do that, its a very recent thing, as when I worked for them (part-time) we moved people towards the game we thought they'd prefer based on their genre preferences, and this was only if they came in not looking for a specific game.


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

jigplums said:


> i bet petrol was only 50p a litre a penny sweets were actually a penny.
> 
> Heresy is a 40k site firstly with the fantasy section for those of us who collect both. Myself and jez have often talked about it, and really it will always remain pre-dominantly 40k with its web addy being 40k based, as thats where the majority users will come from.


While this is likely to remain true we have high hopes for growth in the fantasy section. In the coming months i will be posting tactics for each race, battle reports and much more. Hopefully this will attract lots of new fantasy gamers to heresy, maybe get a few 40k gamers to take a look and of course make it better for those of us already here and keen on warhammer.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Nice one, a lot of work there, ancient I will have a look


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