# 10GHs or 9 GHs and a WG?



## ArgentSnowe (Nov 6, 2009)

I've been playing IG for several years but recently decided to start a new army, I'm going with the SW since I enjoy the fluff and they're a big change-up from the IG (that and I've got this mental block about playing the enemies of Humanity). I've been reading a lot of the tactical threads and articles (including Lash Machine's excellent SW breakdown) and I really think I've learned a lot, but I have concerns about my GH squads. I'm going to stick 'em in Rhinos for the most part, but I can't figure out if the second (free) special weapon is worth the trade-off of not being able to fit a WG in with them. On the one hand a second melta-gun could be pretty handy, but the benefits (as I see them) of the WG might outweigh them, especially if you give him a combi-melta or something. Anyway, what's the majority vote on this? 10th Grey Hunter, or leave room in the Rhino for the Wolf Guard?


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

personally I prefer the wolf guard over the weapon, the extra LD is just gonna be more useful for holding ground, if I want a second emergency special I'd take a combi weapon, but then I also prefer 2 units of 5 in razorbacks with a wolf guard each, so your still getting the 2 special weapons and 12 men and 2 vehicles capable of fighting in an IFV role or TD role, depending on how you arm them


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## buddy999 (Mar 1, 2008)

Just my 50 cents ,in a game last week i remember that extra 1 of LD stopping a couple of GH packs from running,the WG is defo worth it imo and how many extra shots will u get with the extra melta anyway,the combi is as good for that alpha strike:biggrin:


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## ArgentSnowe (Nov 6, 2009)

See the extra LD was something I thought about very seriously, and as you say I probably won't have many opportunities to miss that second melta-gun... I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row before I start really building on this army, I've picked up a couple of the SW battleforces and a box of the Grey Hunters, and I've been working on my lists before I start gluing those fellas together...


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## buddy999 (Mar 1, 2008)

u think the grey hunters are giving u problems,wait till u get 2 support units,spiltfire longs fangs or dakka preds or raiders or defense rune priests or rifleman dreads or thunderwolf cav or iron priests or aaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh my head hurts:biggrins those battleforces rock


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## wargamereric (Jan 20, 2010)

I firmly believe that 9 GH + 1 WG is the best way to go. Extra leadership, extra attacks with power fists compared to a GH taking it, plus its 5 pts cheaper for a WG fist. 

Don't forget counter attack is based on a leadership test, would suck to lose out on +10 attks because you failed that


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Totally go for the Wolf Guard.

More Leadership for the Grey Hunter pack and the only model in the unit that can competently use a power fist. He can easily be given a combi-weapon to help make up for the second special weapon that you miss out on without having ten Hunters.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

depends on how you use them, for myself, since I play a meched list and only bring my GH out of my rhinos when I NEED to, I lean towards 2 melta's since 2 melta's out the top of the rhino is so fun.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

I much prefer the WG, if nothing else for the extra power fist attack because I love me some power fists. The extra LD is completely solid though, since your average WG squad will likely test LD several times over the course of the game and that 1 increase takes you from a 72% success rate to an 83% success rate, reducing the number of times they'll fail by almost half. And you can always give the WG a combi-melta for those times when you really want to kill a vehicle, which doesn't necessarily come up more than once a game anyway for a particular squad.


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## Fenge (Dec 25, 2009)

I would also say go for the WG, that extra Ld is awesome. I can't count the times it has saved my butt. 
The loss of the extra special weapon can easily be made up for with other choices (i.e. Longfangs, landspeeders, etc.)


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## Chimaera (Feb 1, 2010)

Sorry all just have to clear something up in my mind which does sounds like I have it wrong. Under the GH's in the COdex it says "If the squad numbers 10 models, a second GH may replace his bolter with a weapon from the above list at no additional cost". I took this to mean if the squad numbered 10 models you could take this upgrade for free. If a WG joins a GH squad of 9 I thought this then made a squad of 10 and eligible for the free upgrade as the Codex states the WG joins the squad before the battle. Trust me I am not trying to rules lawyer here and just want a definitive answer as the codex is a bit ambiguous the way I have obviously read it.

Thx.

Chim


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Chimaera said:


> Sorry all just have to clear something up in my mind which does sounds like I have it wrong. Under the GH's in the COdex it says "If the squad numbers 10 models, a second GH may replace his bolter with a weapon from the above list at no additional cost". I took this to mean if the squad numbered 10 models you could take this upgrade for free. If a WG joins a GH squad of 9 I thought this then made a squad of 10 and eligible for the free upgrade as the Codex states the WG joins the squad before the battle. Trust me I am not trying to rules lawyer here and just want a definitive answer as the codex is a bit ambiguous the way I have obviously read it.
> 
> Thx.
> 
> Chim


The Space Wolf FAQ addresses this. Wolf Guard _do not_ count as the tenth model for the purposes of adding an additional special weapon to the unit.


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## Chimaera (Feb 1, 2010)

Many thanks Katie. I never even knew one existed (hunted it down in the search function after your pointer). Of course the FAQ stands but there is a stange condradiction in an earlier clarification to the part that comes on to 10 man squads using a WG. GW craziness I guess.




> *Q.* If a Wolf Guard Pack Leader has joined a unit
> of Troops, does that unit cease to be a scoring
> unit? And does the Wolf Guard cease to count as
> an Elite model?
> ...





> Q. Can a Grey Hunter unit that consists of nine
> Grey Hunters and a Wolf Guard Pack Leader
> take a second special weapon?
> A. No, as the unit is not comprised of ten models
> ...


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## Forty Three (Jun 20, 2008)

actually no, it's pretty clear.

if the wolf guard joins the unit he becomes part of the unit and confers them abilities like an IC joining a unit would. However, in order to get 2 special weapons you need to have 10 in the squad when you pick the army. Since the wolf guard is not in the unit when you pick the army, you don't get the weapon.

those two situations are entirely different from each other

43


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## Fenge (Dec 25, 2009)

yeah sadly thats the choice, leader or special weapon. Though giving a wolf guard a combi-weapon lessens penalty a bit.


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## Chimaera (Feb 1, 2010)

> actually no, it's pretty clear.


I never said the answer wasn't clear I said there is contradiction. Basically the rationale used to substantiate one point doesn't sit that well with the reasoning for the other. Let me pull out they key quotes again. 

*because of his ‘Pack Leader’ ability he becomes part of that unit to all intents and purposes*

*he is considered to be part of that Troops unit.*

*the Wolf Guard who have been split off from their original Wolf Guard unit count as part of their assigned unit in all respects.*



> Since the wolf guard is not in the unit when you pick the army


I would love for you to explain the logic behind this one :biggrin:



> yeah sadly thats the choice, leader or special weapon. Though giving a wolf guard a combi-weapon lessens penalty a bit.


Now! That was pleasant. 

Believe it or not I am not uptight about the FAQ. I just found one part a little at odds with another part.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Whatever you do, I say put em in a transport. 10 man squads on foot are cannon fodder.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Chimaera said:


> I would love for you to explain the logic behind this one :biggrin:


The logic is very very simple. Write down your army list as it appears in the codex, don't move things around for your convince. If you have 9 Grey Hunters then you have 9 Grey Hunters, you can have a Wolf Guard sitting in that elite slot ready and waiting to split off and join the unit but he has not until you start deploying your army. 

You cannot take 2 upgrades for having 10 men in your Grey Hunter Squads on the off chance that you choose to split off one of your Wolf Guard into that Squad, as you might choose not to do that. 

Aramoro


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

C:SW says that the Wolf Guard split off at the start of the battle. You write your list before even the start of the battle


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## Forty Three (Jun 20, 2008)

aramoro and skoll nailed it 

43


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## Leviticus (Mar 27, 2009)

For whatever reason I struggle to imagine a Wolf Lord scribbling on a piece of paper who will be joining the battle and who wouldn't. Further, I struggle to imagine a Wolf Lord walking up to his wolf guard and yelling "PSYCHE! You guys are going to the Grey Hunter squads! haha!" Meanwhile, all the grey hunters are saying "Damn, so we're not going to 9 man it? We might as well have just grabbed Jim's meltagun and given it to this guy!"

But then again, I can't imagine a daemonhunter walking up to a bloodletter and saying "Wow... According to my codex's strict description of a daemon, for whatever reason I get no nifty tricks against you."

Yay GW.


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## Viryn (Mar 14, 2010)

9 GH and a WG is the way to go. -OR- 8 GH, WG and a RP


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## Chimaera (Feb 1, 2010)

> For whatever reason I struggle to imagine a Wolf Lord scribbling on a piece of paper who will be joining the battle and who wouldn't. Further, I struggle to imagine a Wolf Lord walking up to his wolf guard and yelling "PSYCHE! You guys are going to the Grey Hunter squads! haha!" Meanwhile, all the grey hunters are saying "Damn, so we're not going to 9 man it? We might as well have just grabbed Jim's meltagun and given it to this guy!"


LOL yeah your following my logic except replace the WL with the player. It's not like your going to decide to split the WG off on the spur of the moment before the battle starts.


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