# Know No Fear



## NIKT208 (Mar 14, 2011)

Hello,

Whats this??


http://www.blacklibrary.com/Horus-Heresy/coming-soon/know-no-fear.html

All right peeps, lets start speculating!!

N


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## Shadow Walker (Jun 10, 2010)

It is about Calth. Ultras vs WB. We already know that Dan Abnett will be the author of this book.


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## NIKT208 (Mar 14, 2011)

Shadow Walker said:


> It is about Calth. Ultras vs WB. We already know that Dan Abnett will be the author of this book.


Outstanding! I only hope Dan portrays this from the Ultramarine/Word Bearer point of view, rather than some serf!! Dont get me wrong, I would like to see remembrancers, and Calth civilians explored as well, but this is essentially an Ultramarine story. It's their darkest hour during the heresy, and the stage is set for some epic battles. If Ventanus, Guilliman, and co are sidelined for another story about the humans/guard (who Dan prefers writing about) I will be very disappointed. So much potential for a beast of a novel!!


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## Lord_Anonymous (Oct 13, 2010)

Ultramarines vs. Word Bearers? Im so getting that book!

sweet..... opcorn::laugh:


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## Lord Mephiston (Sep 16, 2010)

Lord_Anonymous said:


> Ultramarines vs. Word Bearers? Im so getting that book!
> 
> sweet..... opcorn::laugh:


I have a bad feeling about this book. After Prospero Burns, which I was very disappointed with, I think this is gonna turn into another one of those human civilian or remembrancer's point of view stories. 

Unfortunately not too keen on reading any more of Dan Abnett's Space Marine books after Prospero Burns. They should have let Graham Mcneil write it. He's the Ultramarine master. 

I seriously want this one to be focused solely on Ultramarines & Word Bearers, not some yawn-fest about some guardsman or remembrancer's diatribes about being stuck in the middle of this war. It's been done already & there's no need for it to be repeated...


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Lord Mephiston said:


> I have a bad feeling about this book. After Prospero Burns, which I was very disappointed with, I think this is gonna turn into another one of those human civilian or remembrancer's point of view stories.
> 
> Unfortunately not too keen on reading any more of Dan Abnett's Space Marine books after Prospero Burns. They should have let Graham McNeil write it. He's the Ultramarine master.
> 
> I seriously want this one to be focused solely on Ultramarines & Word Bearers, not some yawn-fest about some guardsman or remembrancer's diatribes about being stuck in the middle of this war. It's been done already & there's no need for it to be repeated...


Its like you've read my inner thoughts Mephiston, perhaps you share your namesake's psyker powers :wink:.

If this novel isn't about the Astartes then it will ruin Calth. This is not the Alpha Legion that must be seen from the outside to be secretive and mysterious. This is not the Space Wolves that need explaining to outsiders. These are the Ultramarines, this is their story and nobody else's. Being honest i'm surprised that Abnett is writing Calth and McNeill is writing _The Outcast Dead_. They are both the stories that the other tends to write, and to be honest, tends to excel at. I'd much rather that McNeill wrote Calth because he could give it the scope and depth of the Burning of Prospero, (Seriously his description of that battle is one of the best in science fiction, at least for me.)

Though it is regrettable, but if Dan Abnett turns Calth into the memoirs of a scribe or a failed Ultramarine serf, then I would say he should be removed from the Horus Heresy team. I have no issue with his choice of showing the people behind the Astartes, but Calth isn't about them and nobody has ever claimed it was. This is an Astartes story, through and through on both sides. Lets just hope that Abnett remembers that, and gives us the _Horus Rising_ magic again :grin:. (And that he'll bring Loken back to novels already!)

Lord of the Night


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Do we really need to go into another post about how Dan is perfectly capable of writing an excellent Astartes novel, from the point of view of Astartes? Has everyone suddenly forgot Horus Rising, considered by many to be one of the best Heresy books, introducing one of the most popular and well recieved new characters of the series (Loken), as well as doing an excellent job of introducing others like Tarvitz, Lucius, Torgaddon. Making Abbadon of all people likeable, Horus even more likeable. Legion as i've said time and time and time again, had to be written from an outside perspective, it absolouetly could not have been from the Alpha Legion perspective. And then Prospero Burns, well its 50/50 as to who likes it or not, it was still a very successful book and i loved it. 

Yet now everyone seems to like to jump on the 'Abnett doesn't like Astartes' band wagon, without any solid reason as to why beyond 'I didn't like Hawser!'. I'm certain that Know No Fear will be an excellent book, be written from the Astartes perspective, and frankly i can't wait, just so everyone who seems to think this can be proved wrong.

Patience people. It will come.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I agree with previous posts, both having doubts but also positive, as Angel of Blood pointed out there!


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Do we really need to go into another post about how Dan is perfectly capable of writing an excellent Astartes novel, from the point of view of Astartes? Has everyone suddenly forgot Horus Rising, considered by many to be one of the best Heresy books, introducing one of the most popular and well recieved new characters of the series (Loken), as well as doing an excellent job of introducing others like Tarvitz, Lucius, Torgaddon. Making Abbadon of all people likeable, Horus even more likeable. Legion as i've said time and time and time again, had to be written from an outside perspective, it absolouetly could not have been from the Alpha Legion perspective. And then Prospero Burns, well its 50/50 as to who likes it or not, it was still a very successful book and i loved it.


I've never claimed that _Legion_ was bad or could be written another way, it couldn't. _Prospero Burns_ could have, maybe should have, but its done and out now. I have never forgotten _Horus Rising_ or the classic characters that it introduced, I still refuse to believe that Saul Tarvitz is dead and perhaps my faith will be rewarded when he returns and joins with Loken and Garro as the True Loyalists.

But I won't start another rant. I merely claim that Calth has the potential to be a grand novel, or a dismal failure. It all depends on what Ser Abnett chooses to do, but this must be an Astartes novel. Thats one of the reasons i'm so confident in Ser Swallow's _Fear to Tread_, there were no Non-Astartes at Signus, only Blood Angels and Daemons.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Do we really need to go into another post about how Dan is perfectly capable of writing an excellent Astartes novel, from the point of view of Astartes? Has everyone suddenly forgot Horus Rising, considered by many to be one of the best Heresy books, introducing one of the most popular and well recieved new characters of the series (Loken), as well as doing an excellent job of introducing others like Tarvitz, Lucius, Torgaddon. Making Abbadon of all people likeable, Horus even more likeable. Legion as i've said time and time and time again, had to be written from an outside perspective, it absolouetly could not have been from the Alpha Legion perspective. And then Prospero Burns, well its 50/50 as to who likes it or not, it was still a very successful book and i loved it.
> 
> Yet now everyone seems to like to jump on the 'Abnett doesn't like Astartes' band wagon, without any solid reason as to why beyond 'I didn't like Hawser!'. I'm certain that Know No Fear will be an excellent book, be written from the Astartes perspective, and frankly i can't wait, just so everyone who seems to think this can be proved wrong.
> 
> Patience people. It will come.


:goodpost:

And by the way, are we certain _Know No Fear_ will be the Calth book?


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## Shadow Walker (Jun 10, 2010)

Lord of the Night wrote: But I won't start another rant. I merely claim that Calth has the potential to be a grand novel, or a dismal failure. It all depends on what Ser Abnett chooses to do, but this must be an Astartes novel. Thats one of the reasons i'm so confident in Ser Swallow's _Fear to Tread_, there were no Non-Astartes at Signus, only Blood Angels and Daemons.

Actually there were plenty of non-Astartes. Most of them cultists or enslaved population of Signus. See Collected Visions for more details. As for James Swallows I have only doubts. After Nemesis I think he should never be allowed to write any HH novel but since for that one is already too late then he should be really strongly educated in wh40k/30k lore. I do not want to see again Ministorum and Adeptus Astartes in times of HH.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> :goodpost:
> 
> And by the way, are we certain _Know No Fear_ will be the Calth book?


Allow me to bounce in with "Yep".


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I really do not get what the fuck people are on about, Prospero Burns was a brilliant fucking book. My favorite out of the entire HH series..... and I am not just saying that because I'm SW fanboy.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> I really do not get what the fuck people are on about, Prospero Burns was a brilliant fucking book. My favorite out of the entire HH series..... and I am not just saying that because I'm SW fanboy.


:goodpost:. 

This for the win, at least someone else agrees with me.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I hear you. I respect that different people will have different opinions, but when half of the criticism levelled against "Prospero Burns" has to do with it being from the perspective of a normal person.... I have a hard time taking it seriously.

On the other hand, though, I completely understand why someone would feel that they were presented with false advertising--"Prospero Burns" is about far more than that battle, and in fact is aimed at presenting to us issues and events for which the end is more or less just an aftermath.

Where the _quality_ of the book is concerned, though, it's excellent--characters, portrayal of settings, conveying the visceral nature of the Wolves, etc.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> I really do not get what the fuck people are on about, Prospero Burns was a brilliant fucking book. My favorite out of the entire HH series..... and I am not just saying that because I'm SW fanboy.





Phoebus said:


> I hear you. I respect that different people will have different opinions, but when half of the criticism levelled against "Prospero Burns" has to do with it being from the perspective of a normal person.... I have a hard time taking it seriously.
> 
> On the other hand, though, I completely understand why someone would feel that they were presented with false advertising--"Prospero Burns" is about far more than that battle, and in fact is aimed at presenting to us issues and events for which the end is more or less just an aftermath.
> 
> Where the _quality_ of the book is concerned, though, it's excellent--characters, portrayal of settings, conveying the visceral nature of the Wolves, etc.


Couldn't agree more.


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## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> I hear you. I respect that different people will have different opinions, but when half of the criticism levelled against "Prospero Burns" has to do with it being from the perspective of a normal person.... I have a hard time taking it seriously.


Same here and i agree fully. Story was about Wolves and not so much as advertised about Prospero. Wolves are shown brilliantly.


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## jmambrosian (Nov 30, 2010)

*Couldn't agree more*



Lord of the Night said:


> Its like you've read my inner thoughts Mephiston, perhaps you share your namesake's psyker powers :wink:.
> 
> If this novel isn't about the Astartes then it will ruin Calth. This is not the Alpha Legion that must be seen from the outside to be secretive and mysterious. This is not the Space Wolves that need explaining to outsiders. These are the Ultramarines, this is their story and nobody else's. Being honest i'm surprised that Abnett is writing Calth and McNeill is writing _The Outcast Dead_. They are both the stories that the other tends to write, and to be honest, tends to excel at. I'd much rather that McNeill wrote Calth because he could give it the scope and depth of the Burning of Prospero, (Seriously his description of that battle is one of the best in science fiction, at least for me.)
> 
> Although I don't agree with getting rid of Dan I am hoping that they do this right. I was so pissed with Prospero Burns because they set everythign up to be two sides of the same story and what we got was a full blown and fleshed out throw down by Graham and a long winded build up to a minor mention by Dan. This is one of the most important stories in the universe. Even if you haven't read the collected visions you are still wondering what will happen after Battle for the Abyss. I have always said that Graham was a better story teller than Dan. I especially like the some what Lovecraftian elements he gave us at the fall of Prospero, I.E. when the sky opens and the nameless horror of the cosmos looks down upon the blood soaked world; not and then a worthless character did somethign that really has nothign to do with the main story.


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## Lord Mephiston (Sep 16, 2010)

I really enjoyed Dan's works, they are excellent reads. But all I am hoping for here is some good-old Bolter Porn to go along with the characterization & storytrelling. We can find humans aplenty in Gaunt's Ghosts, Eisenhorn & Imperial Guard books. In my opinion, Horus Heresy was about Legiones Astartes. Astartes vs. Astartes. Thats all I ask for in this book. The battle of Calth, fought for by Ultramarines & Word Bearers.

If you read Rules Of Engagement in Age Of Darkness, you'll see what a brilliant tactitian Guilliman is ( hats off to Herr McNeil for that ). I want to see some that tactical brilliance, from the point of view of Guilliman or one of his captains. 

Yeah, hate me for it, But in my opinion Fallen Angels & First Heretic were the best HH books so far.

I find Descent to be a close third, simply because it was more like an ADVENTURE story than a full-blown Astartes war-story. And it's protagonists were Astartes in the making. This concept was only applied in 2 other 40k novels, Space Wolf & Sons Of Dorn. I seriously don't understand why people hate that book so much :ireful2:. It's title & information weren't misleading like Prospero Burns.It showed you how the now-destroyed death world of Caliban was like before it went poof. It was directly linked to a part of the Heresy.

Ok rant is over, Sorry, had to let it out there :biggrin:


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Wait, you didn't like it BECAUSE it was deep and insightful rather than a group of muscle bound twits blazing rounds at eachother? And prospero burns isn't misleading if you aren't being obtuse. The entire point was why it happened, why prospero burned.


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## Lord Mephiston (Sep 16, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Wait, you didn't like it BECAUSE it was deep and insightful rather than a group of muscle bound twits blazing rounds at eachother? And prospero burns isn't misleading if you aren't being obtuse. The entire point was why it happened, why prospero burned.


I expected at least 1/3rd of the book to feature the battle for Prospero. Yes, it is about why prospero was burnt instead of how, but look at the title, look at the cover ( one of the most bad-ass covers ever in a BL publication IMO ). What I got was not a badly written book by any means. It was just not what I expected at all.

Two words sum up the main reason for me buying this book : Leman Russ. How many pages were given to him, to fleshing out his character ? Why wasn't he kicking ass like the hype, title, cover and description suggested he would ? Look how ADB handled Lorgar in First Heretic. How Graham McNeil handled Fulgrim & Magnus. I expected Russ to be the central character of the book, not that Hawser guy.

And when you play your Space Wolf army against another Astartes force, it is muscle bound twits blasting each other with Bolters, right ? Thats what I expected in addition to the ( well written ) characterization and story.

OK I admit that it's my fault for buying into the hype and being disappointed due to my extremely high expectations ( TBH I was expecting this to be the MOST action-packed, brutal & gritty Space Marine WAR STORY in the HH series ), but cut me some slack here, man. We're all entitled to our own opinions.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I honestly can't see how people can say Prospero Burns is bad because it's not from an Astartes perspective, but then like Descent of Angels or not raise the same problem. Even if Zahariel would eventually become an astartes, it was still the same thing, but worse. I did not expect Descent of Angels to be about the adventures of a teenage boy in the Caliban wilderness and his quests to become a knight or slaying monsters. Hell the front cover had Astartes on it in a battleground, yet this only happens at the very end of the novel, and its hardly a gripping or lengthy battle either. The synopsis says its about the Emperor finding Caliban and being reunited with Jonson, again this doesn't happen till the later part of the book. Nowhere in that synopsis did it say the book was going to be about a young teenage boy and the trials he goes through. Only a small part of the book is about the description given. It's just as misleading, but unlike Prospero Burns i don't think it was a good book. The front cover should have been a group of young boys and some younger men.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

From Commisar Ploss interview with Abnett, this sounds like it will be a dedicated Ultramarines novel, as Abnett said its time for a full on pro-loyalist book.


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## space cowboy (Apr 3, 2009)

I thought Prospero Burns delivered in this regard: it showed that even though Prospero was a galaxy-changing event, and a HUGE ordeal for the Thousand Sons, it was just another day on the job for the Space Wolves. It was even treated as such in the writing and how much 'screen time' it received in each book; the parts that were important for each side were remembered and told.

The tragedy of the Thousand Sons is that too much knowledge was their downfall. Magnus, and by extension his legion, couldn't trust the Emperor that he knew best because they didn't know. They couldn't just believe, they had to know. That was their downfall. Because they acquire knowledge, their story is a remembrance of every detail, every nuance, of the death of their planet and their being cast out of the Imperium.

The Space Wolves, on the other hand, throughout the story talk about how they remember things so they will live on, and if it can't be remembered it isn't worth knowing (hence why they don't keep written historical records.) This is important to the duology as it is important to see that the Wolves sometimes _choose_ to not remember something so that they don't know it. I feel this is the case with Prospero Burns. The story is told in such a way as to impress upon the reader that the Wolves actively choose to only remember the exploits of the Space Wolves and the most basic lessons of Prospero (mainly the events that led to the burning, but very little of the burning itself), as otherwise, to them, it was just another day of doing the job they were built to do.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I feel it is important as I think Prospero Burns was very successful in its execution, as it gave a much deeper and more proper insight into the Space Wolves than a traditional 'bolter porn' novel would have done. It is why I agree that Know No Fear should avoid the style of Prospero Burns; the Ultramarines are the consummate Astartes and their story should be told from an Astartes perspective.


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