# McNeill's next Heresy novel



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Well im not sure on what the hell it could be about but Graham McNeill has given a clue about his next Horus Heresy novel, on what he is doing to prepare for it.



Graham McNeill said:


> I’ve just finished Aaron’s The First Heretic, and all I’ll say is that when you have some of that hard-earned cash to hand, you should get yourself to your nearest BL webstore and purchase yourself a copy. It’s a cracking read, and is a sterling addition to the Horus Heresy range. Coming hot on the heels of my reading of Nemesis and Prospero Burns, I know I’ve got a lot of work to do in order to make sure my next Heresy book really takes flight. To that end I’ve been reading a comparative study of dreaming in the world’s religions to get some solid background research done, so I’ll let that percolate in your minds to figure out what it might be about. I’ll be telling you more about this later…


Dreaming... sounds very interesting. Looking forward to more news of this. And more praise for _The First Heretic_, its taking too long to release it.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

An interesting tidbit, by McNeill. However, it only increases the intruige as to which Legion it will cover. 



> To that end I’ve been reading a comparative study of dreaming in the world’s religions to get some solid background research done, so I’ll let that percolate in your minds to figure out what it might be about


I'm not too sure how this can possibly relate to the sons of Perturabo, or even Guilliman, for that matter. The former, the Iron Warriors, in terms of society and culture are very Hellenic, where as the Ultramarines resemble a more Byanzantine people; in terms of labelling a Historical period to a Legion which shares aspects. 

Either way, the promise of a new arc of stories (Hopefully on the Iron Warriors) culminating in the Cleansing of Olympia and Perturabo's succumbing to jealousy and hatred of Dorn should be excellent in the lead up to Terra.


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## dark angel (Jun 11, 2008)

Dreaming? Religions? Sounds like the Word Bearers to me personally, _very_ doubtful that it is though. I'm not really sure on what this could be about, perhaps another, non Astartes focused novel?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

I agree with Dark Angel. It doesn't sound like a Space Marine focused novel, im guessing something to do with psykers.


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## Turkeyspit (Jun 11, 2010)

Didn't Sanguinus have fortellings of death, and didn't that become a Blood Angels 'defect' after his death?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Yes but James Swallow is writing the Blood Angels, he's already confirmed that.


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## FORTHELION (Nov 21, 2009)

sounds like word bearers to me with the religious link. Maybe the first of a two book series on the battle for calth from the word bearers point of view. 

a bit like a thousand sons and prospero burns.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

If its Calth then McNeill should be writing the Ultramarines side, and ADB the Word Bearers side.


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## dark angel (Jun 11, 2008)

It depends on Calth, I think. There are four possible authors (Kyme and McNeill for Ultramarines; Reynolds and ADB for Word Bearers.) in my eyes, though the pairing which LotN mentioned will probably write it. The reason I don't think it is the Word Bearers, is due to the release of _The First Heretic_ being soon. I imagine that we will see Signus and another novel before then, but I don't think this is actually the start of the Calth duo. (Which is obvious, in my opinion..)


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

McNeill's upcoming short story in _Age of Darkness_ will start a new story arc in the Heresy, but thats likely the Iron Warriors. So I don't think research into dreaming is prudent for the Sons of Perturabo.


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## Yllib Enaz (Jul 15, 2010)

Dreaming makes me think native american, which points to the deathwing/dark angles, but I guess thats not very likely...


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Drawing heavily from what Vaz founded several months ago, the Dark Angels and the entirity of Caliban's hierachy, society and culture is very similar to 13th century Eastern Europe. ''War against the beasts'' creating the Knightly Orders representative of the Knighty Orders founded in Ukraine, Romania and Poland against the Mongol hordes; so called ''barbarians'' or ''beasts'' (Despite earlier conquests leading to large amounts of Perisan engineer's/scholars and philosphers accompanying the later Mongol expeditions, thus shattering the cliched, stereotypical vision we associated with them)

Back onto topic, then who cares for a little suspense? It's why I don't trawel through blogs, endlessly. I like surprises, and considering my glee concerning the Iron Warriors, this will certainly be one of them.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Yllib Enaz said:


> Dreaming makes me think native american, which points to the deathwing/dark angles, but I guess thats not very likely...


There are certain elements of native americanism to the Dark Angels but only after the destruction of Caliban when they began to recruit from many different planets and one of their main recruiting grounds was such a civilisation.


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## Yllib Enaz (Jul 15, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> There are certain elements of native americanism to the Dark Angels but only after the destruction of Caliban when they began to recruit from many different planets and one of their main recruiting grounds was such a civilisation.


Hence its not very likely...


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I wonder if Graham McNeill is talking about the past religions from Terra. If indeed he's talking about multiple religons. Maybe some more insight about the stories and religions myths somehow dealing with Terra's/mankinds/The Emperor's past. He kind of did this in Mechanicum.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> There are certain elements of native americanism to the Dark Angels but only after the destruction of Caliban when they began to recruit from many different planets and one of their main recruiting grounds was such a civilisation.


Back in 2nd Ed when they started releasing chapter specific models, GW seemed to be steering the DA in the American Indian direction, with fluff giving names like Two Bears amongst the DW that originally painted their armour white, as well as a lot of feathers and totems amonst their iconography. This seems to have pretty much been sidelined since then though.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> I wonder if Graham McNeill is talking about the past religions from Terra. If indeed he's talking about multiple religons. Maybe some more insight about the stories and religions myths somehow dealing with Terra's/mankinds/The Emperor's past. He kind of did this in Mechanicum.


That... sounds possible. Graham McNeill is the only one whose written the Emperor in more then a few lines, or a single scene. _The Last Church_ was quite good, maybe he is going to delve into Terra's past and the rising of the Emperor. Certainly would be cool.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Lord of the Night said:


> maybe he is going to delve into Terra's past and the rising of the Emperor. Certainly would be cool.


It certainly would be cool if they explored his 30 millenia of history, but I can't see it ffitting into the context of the HH.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Khorne's Fist said:


> It certainly would be cool if they explored his 30 millenia of history, but I can't see it ffitting into the context of the HH.


The _Last Church_ didn't fit into the HH category either but it was still written, and was quite good.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

I can't see it being about anything pre-GC or even pre-HH. Several authors have mentioned in passing now that the series is pushing on into the _Age of Darkness_, thus I can only see it being based around something post-Isstvan. Although I've been wrong once before. 

As someone said it sounds at this point like a non-Astartes based novel.

Although it is worth pointing out that aswell as Sanguinius having prophetic visions/dreams, so did Konrad Curze...


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

dark angel said:


> It depends on Calth, I think. There are four possible authors (Kyme and McNeill for Ultramarines; Reynolds and ADB for Word Bearers.) in my eyes, though the pairing which LotN mentioned will probably write it. The reason I don't think it is the Word Bearers, is due to the release of _The First Heretic_ being soon. I imagine that we will see Signus and another novel before then, but I don't think this is actually the start of the Calth duo. (Which is obvious, in my opinion..)


Dude, you're good at this.

What DA said.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

bobss said:


> An interesting tidbit, by McNeill. However, it only increases the intruige as to which Legion it will cover.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Through my hopes of it being an Iron Warriors novel, I'd like to think that perhaps the Tyrant of Lochos was worshiping gods and even brought himself to be a god. This possibly creating the later rebellion and heresy within his planet. lol.... I wish.



Lord of the Night said:


> McNeill's upcoming short story in _Age of Darkness_ will start a new story arc in the Heresy, but thats likely the Iron Warriors. So I don't think research into dreaming is prudent for the Sons of Perturabo.


To be honest, I don't really think McNeill likes the Iron Warriors. I think his story might honestly be about the Ultramarines. The reason why I don't think he likes the Iron Warriors is because he honestly made the legion look redicolous during their encounters with Uriel. In my opinion, he chose the coldest legion to be the antagonists in his stories and that was pretty much it.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Lord of the Night said:


> The _Last Church_ didn't fit into the HH category either but it was still written, and was quite good.


Neither did the one about Angron's tortured introduction to his legion, but it got in there anyway. I got the impression that those two stories were written as little side projects by the authors, and were too good to leave out, even if they didn't really fit into the rest of the book. They would have been more at home in a preHeresy collection.


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## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

bobss said:


> An interesting tidbit, by McNeill. However, it only increases the intruige as to which Legion it will cover.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you meaning that the Olympians are like greeks? I guess that would make some sense. I mean olympia=mt. olympus. Probably spelled that wrong. But just because they have some historical aspect to them doesn't really mean they are fully part of that culture. Example, Horus is Ancient Eqyptian but his legion has ill to do with eqyptian culture.

Thats quite interesting though. The most technological, cold hearted, and calculating legion turns to be a follower of the chaos deities(they worship chaos).... Usually more advanced societies tend to lean towards atheism. Maybe they had a polythic society during his adopted father's rule. The Iron Warriors could have been like the night lords or alpha legion and not followed the chaos deities as a legion at whole. But they pretty much become followers when Perturabo became a daemon prince.


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## Commander Colgate (Sep 7, 2010)

I dont understand why everyone is 'smurf' bashing. i have surfed alot of forums and found a lot of hate for the Sons of Guilliman but let us not forget, that after the Emperor fell the Ultramarines (almost) single handedly held the splintering Imperium together for a time. Not so deserved i feel, but bring on the flaming i will no doubt receive.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Commander Colgate said:


> I dont understand why everyone is 'smurf' bashing. i have surfed alot of forums and found a lot of hate for the Sons of Guilliman but let us not forget, that after the Emperor fell the Ultramarines (almost) single handedly held the splintering Imperium together for a time. Not so deserved i feel, but bring on the flaming i will no doubt receive.


Yo Commander Colgate, I think your in the wrong thread, to talk about smurff bashing, go to 40kfluff section. You might want to use the search engine as their are many of these threads

This thread is about the new McNeill Heresy Novel. Many of us don't know whether it will be about Ultramarines or Iron Warriors, as they are the only legions/chapters hes actually written about... post heresy of course. He says its a legion close to his heart, so we are trying to discuss what that means.


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## Commander Colgate (Sep 7, 2010)

ckcrawford said:


> Yo Commander Colgate, I think your in the wrong thread, to talk about smurff bashing, go to 40kfluff section. You might want to use the search engine as their are many of these threads
> 
> This thread is about the new McNeill Heresy Novel. Many of us don't know whether it will be about Ultramarines or Iron Warriors, as they are the only legions/chapters hes actually written about... post heresy of course. He says its a legion close to his heart, so we are trying to discuss what that means.


 
No, I am not in the wrong thread I was merely giving my view on as I said; the bashing of the Ultramarines during the HH, relevant as we are discussing what the book will contain. AS the series is far from over I am certain the lack of any meaningful contribution from the Ultra Legion is yet to come. There has been alot of flak aimed at them and its not even finished yet. Just my thoughts.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Try to be curtious to Lord of Night's and his thread as it is his, try to give your opinion on something more productive, instead of the well known bashing the smurfs. They do get bashed a lot. But that discussion would be more effective in a thread that further goes into it. Don't want to stray away from the main focus, which is.... what is in that book?


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Dreaming... Dreams... Old religions of terra... Hmmm...


Nah, it's got me fucked. No idea! Other than a IW or UM based novel (simply based off his previous novels, nothing to do with the above mentioned clues) I have no idea. Very cryptic Mr McNeill!

Maybe it's the emperors first discovery of the imperial webway? I imagine that it would be like walking through a tunnel surrounded by wild dreams and emotions.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Lord of the Night said:


> The _Last Church_ didn't fit into the HH category either but it was still written, and was quite good.





Khorne's Fist said:


> Neither did the one about Angron's tortured introduction to his legion, but it got in there anyway. I got the impression that those two stories were written as little side projects by the authors, and were too good to leave out, even if they didn't really fit into the rest of the book. They would have been more at home in a preHeresy collection.


Actually both of them tie in to the Heresy perfectly.
_The Last Church_ really drives home the Emperor's disdain for religion (which obviously also ties in with his eventual rebuke to Lorgar over a century later) but at the same time demonstrates how easy it is for him to be misconstrued as being divine himself.

Angron's introduction is obviously a way of exploring exactly why he hates the Emperor so much, why he spat on his vows of loyalty to the Throne.


ckcrawford said:


> Try to be curtious to Lord of Night's and his thread as it is his, try to give your opinion on something more productive, instead of the well known bashing the smurfs. They do get bashed a lot. But that discussion would be more effective in a thread that further goes into it. Don't want to stray away from the main focus, which is.... what is in that book?


If LotN was so disheartened by the comment I'm sure he would have piped up himself, going off-topic hasn't been seen as being discourteous to the OP in the past (unless it goes too far) so I don't see how you can apply that hypocritical standard to a newbie who was making, in his eyes, a valid statement.


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## space cowboy (Apr 3, 2009)

Doesn't Kurze ave nightmares about the future all of the time? I want to say that came up in Dark King.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

He does, but they are only slivers of the possible futures. I believe Konrad Curze has dreams of the worst possible futures and often takes them as what will be. At least thats what I thought the concept of _Soul Hunter_ was about. Talos had all these dreams that he was gonna get wasted by one of his bretheren who was close to khorne. But they never came to be, because he didn't except these unto reality like Konrad Curze did.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> ) so I don't see how you can apply that hypocritical standard to a newbie who was making, in his eyes, a valid statement.


i agree, give the new fella a break. we're a friendly community here. lets keep it that way.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

An Ultra smurf HH would would be pretty sweet after the shit job that was done on them in the Abyss.....

Iron warriors would be interesting, but all i can imagine is a book about long ass seiges and then Horus popping up and saying "dude join chaos" and off they fuck...

Grim.


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## Cyrion (Apr 17, 2010)

On a hunch, I'm going to guess it will be about the Adeptus Astra Telepathica.


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## RudeAwakening79 (Oct 20, 2008)

Brother Subtle said:


> i agree, give the new fella a break. we're a friendly community here. lets keep it that way.


Very subtle, brother subtle :so_happy:

On topic:

This is really hard to make any sort of prediction, as Grahams description is pretty vague. All lore from 40k is based on some form of ancient beliefs/societies/faith/religions...so what the?
Adeptus Astra Telepathica isn't a bad guess...I really can't think of a chapter to link to this description. Hopefully a chapter that hasn't been done yet in the series.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

Aye I'd be happy if it was a book on the Adeptus Astra Telepathica.

See the Heresy from their PoV and fill in another crucial bit of background fluff.


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## Insurance (Sep 8, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> _The Last Church_ really drives home the Emperor's disdain for religion (which obviously also ties in with his eventual rebuke to Lorgar over a century later) but at the same time demonstrates how easy it is for him to be misconstrued as being divine himself.


this maybe a little off the thread topic, but as i am learning more and more about post horus heresy, i picture lorgar bitching about how he was right. al gore invented the internet and lorgar knew the emperor was a "god". 

and as for the graham mcneill book, i hope it is about the iron warriors. i haven't read the ultramarines omnibus yet, but of all the horus heresy books, i thought battle for the abyss was the weakest. i realize graham mcneill didn't write it, but it left me with a lesser interest in the ultramarines. 

like i said, i'm still new to this, so my opinion probably counts for nothing. i'll read it if its about the ultramarines, the iron warriors, or the memoirs of a servitor.


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## gatorgav (Feb 6, 2009)

Nighthaunter! Please be a book about Nighthaunter!


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