# Guilliman



## constantin_valdor (Apr 8, 2011)

Just read more stuff on Guilliman as im bored -_- and i know Fulgrim as a daemon prince stabbed him in the neck with the anathame and he was then place on his throne in a statis, some people claim that the wound is healing others say it isnt but what do you think? i personally think it is now i dont play ultramarines that often im not a smurf fanboy i prefer my guard and tau armies. But thinking on it thousands of pilgrims go to his shine day in day out all thinking that his wounds are healing now there must be some basis for this rumour to crop up in the first place, i personally think that some part of the Emperors massive psychic will is slowly restoring Guilliman and at the end times he will be fully healed for the final battle as will the other surviving/ missing primarchs.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Firstly, it is an assumption to claim that Guilliman was struck with the Anathame.

As for the pilgrims, the human mind sees what it wants to see. It is nothing more than the crazed false hope of fanatical humans.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> As for the pilgrims, the human mind sees what it wants to see. It is nothing more than the crazed false hope of fanatical humans.


Yes but this is a Galaxy where the will of humans can literally alter reality.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

He was put into the stasis right at the moment of death.
The moment he is released from the statis, he will be dead.

As for his wounds healing..... its physically impossible. Its a STASIS. 

Any belief that he is recovering is just to give the smurfs and the pilgrims a false sense of hope for the future.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

KingOfCheese said:


> As for his wounds healing..... its physically impossible. Its a STASIS.


It's physically impossible to split a titan in half with the power of your mind. 

It's physically impossible to communicate telepathically

It's physically impossible to make yourself bullet proof by wanting it real bad


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

You can't alter a stasis field.

It's just Imperial propaganda, just as fake as the Emperor ascending to become a god and the chaos legions not existing.

Yes, it impossible to stop bullets with psychic powers in this world, but not in the 40k universe.

That's because they have the warp there and nonsense like that.

However, there has never been an instance of psychic powers that can heal something in stasis.

Think of it like this:

He's in stasis to stop himself from dying right?
But if some psychic energy were to heal him somehow, even slowly, wouldn't that end up disrupting the stasis barrier, which would actually end up killing him?

Everyone knows that 40k rarely makes sense, but the idea that Guilliman is being interacted with in any way at all defies the very definition of a stasis field.

If it ever turns out to be true (Which it won't because Games Workshop refuses to progress with the storyline) it will border on utterly nonsensical logic. It would be an instance where logic has completely left the 40k universe, and Grimdark will mean nothing because a man just somehow, against all possible logic, magically healed himself. It just won't make any form of sense at all. I'd call it borderline retarded, but I don't want to offend anyone.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Weapon said:


> If it ever turns out to be true (Which it won't because Games Workshop refuses to progress with the storyline) it will border on utterly nonsensical logic. It would be an instance where logic has completely left the 40k universe, and Grimdark will mean nothing because a man just somehow, against all possible logic, magically healed himself. It just won't make any form of sense at all. I'd call it borderline retarded, but I don't want to offend anyone.


GW sadly threw logic out the window a long time ago. 
Completely destroying fluff to to appeal to kids.
Just look at Draigo.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Weapon said:


> You can't alter a stasis field.


Why not?





> Yes, it impossible to stop bullets with psychic powers in this world, but not in the 40k universe.
> 
> That's because they have the warp there and nonsense like that.
> 
> However, there has never been an instance of psychic powers that can heal something in stasis.


So only things which have happened before can possibly happen in the future? That is plainly wrong.


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## constantin_valdor (Apr 8, 2011)

How do we know what can alter a statis field or what can or cannot happen in one  the technology used in the 40k is far more advanced than what we use or know about


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

The Golden Throne is a stasis crypt. CotE said so himself.  

So if it is possible for someone to decay in a stasis field, why is it impossible for one to heal? 

Not that I believe he is, but that point is flawed.


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## constantin_valdor (Apr 8, 2011)

Serpion you raise a good point lol


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> Why not?


Because it defies the very definition of a stasis field.
Guilliman would die of his wounds before anything could be done to save him.



Aramoro said:


> So only things which have happened before can possibly happen in the future? That is plainly wrong.


No, you're completely missing the point...

There is has been no previous evidence to support the idea that Psychic powers can somehow penetrate a stasis field. And common sense suggests that the very definition of a stasis field shows that it cannot be interacted with without destroying or breaking the field in some way.

So while I can argue with common sense to back up my opinion, there's nothing you can come up with to support yours.


Actually nevermind, I just saw Serpion5's post.

40k has officially run out of logic.

Grimdark has no meaning anymore.

My brain hurts from all this illogical crap...


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Like you Aramoro, I'm of the opinion that in the WH40k world, literally anything is possible.

And a Primarch is unlike any other known being, who is to say a petty stasis field could halt their regenerative abilities?

@Weapon: how do invisible waves of energy penetrate the thick armor of a tank and surgically flay its occupants as if they were cut by an invisible swordsman? 

How do strong Daemons penetrate the Geller fields of ships?


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## constantin_valdor (Apr 8, 2011)

and just reading the comments yes it is an assumption to say that it was the anathame that was used it mearly states it was a poisoned sword, and we also know that the legions apocatharies know very little about a primarchs body etc so they might have naturally assumed he was dying again this is all conjecture and GW will never say 'he is healing' god forbid!


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Weapon said:


> There is has been no previous evidence to support the idea that Psychic powers can somehow penetrate a stasis field. And common sense suggests that the very definition of a stasis field shows that it cannot be interacted with without destroying or breaking the field in some way.
> 
> So while I can argue with common sense to back up my opinion, there's nothing you can come up with to support yours.


Emperor projects his Psychic Beacon and the Emperor Tarot from within a Stasis Field. So why not project something into it?





Weapon said:


> 40k has officially run out of logic.
> 
> Grimdark has no meaning anymore.
> 
> My brain hurts from all this illogical crap...


People get on board mile long space ships and fly an inconceivable distance across the unfathomable bounds of space, they use their 10,000 year old space craft to land on planets so they can have swordfights. 40K has never had any logic. If you're looking for logic might I suggest not looking at 40K.


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## constantin_valdor (Apr 8, 2011)

For me 40k was never about logic just copius amounts of bloodshed and war and ofc titans i love titans


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

constantin_valdor said:


> GW will never say 'he is healing' god forbid!


They will if Matt Ward writes the 6th ed Space Marine codex.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Never got why people would assume they knew the intricate workings of pieces of tech. from the WH40k universe like they picked one up at Bestbuy.

And good point C.Valdor, when Horus was wounded by the Anathame, no one in the Imperium with the likely exception of the Emperor, knew how to heal him because his body was completely different than anything they had encountered.


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## constantin_valdor (Apr 8, 2011)

KingOfCheese said:


> They will if Matt Ward writes the 6th ed Space Marine codex.


 lol hopefully we'll find out in the next year or so when the new edition comes out, i never understood the hate for matt ward til i read the grey knight codex then i cried blood and screamed for mercy from the fell gods of the warp


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

No, it's a ludicrous and utterly retarded idea and concept. Let's ignore the fact that time is frozen withing a stasis field for a moment, something thats just as retarded as Guilliman healing. Guillimans body needs to pump blood to the wounded area to heal it, this is one of the most basic principles of healing a wound, directing blood to the area so that it can clot and stop the area being further damaged from blood loss. So for this to happen Guillimans heart needs to be beating and blood pumping around his body. But the moment this happens, that means the poison is also being pumped around his body, which will therefore kill him, instantly.

I don't even know how people can argue such a fanciful and absurd idea.


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

Guys, 

Two points; 

1. It's fantasy, I know you can try and apply versimilitude so that real world logic applies but really, you just can't it's all up to whoever writes the fluff.

2. It's Workshop, they have and can do whatever they bloody want. I compare it to Star Wars, Lucas designed something awesome, then proceeded to ruin it over the course of three films. Does that mean we didn't watch them, no of course not, because it's Star Wars, we just hated ourselves for it.

To some extent this is a pointless thread as you can't say what is true and what isn't, we're just waaa'ing about what is feasible. For the record I agree that Gulliman shouldn't be able to get better. The definition of Stasis is "the state of equilibrium or inactivity caused by opposing equal forces." Time being one force, so in order for healing to happen time needs to progress, otherwise nothing Happens .


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

KingOfCheese said:


> As for his wounds healing..... its physically impossible. Its a STASIS.


And this is 40k, a place where a giant winged money flying out of the God Emperors ass and smiting the entirety of chaos isn't necessarily out of the realm of possibility.

This is fantasy, there are no absolutes.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

But in the world of 40k stasis fields act exactly like this, disregard all the other shit that can go on in the 40k verse, thats all down to Willing Suspension of Disbelief. But stasis fields work like they are described, this is Magic A is Magic A. Start messing with that and your now breaking the External/Genre/Internal Consistency of 40k, which in turn fucks up and negates mine/your/our Willing Suspension of Disbelief.


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## Mannimarco (Apr 27, 2011)

He is in a stasis field, frozen in the moment before death so he isnt getting any better but he isnt getting any worse because thats kinnda the whole point of stasis. Its all very well saying "oh well its a magical fantasy land where anything is possible" but then this stasis field would be a stasis field anymore would it?

Now lets turn it around: Hes in this stasis field which by definition should be like pressing pause on a remote control the second before the tape ends but as if by magic he is getting better. Is it not also possible that he could be slowly dying or does this magical stasis field not work that way? Is it the kind of stasis field that can freeze you the moment before you die but lets you heal?

We must remember the Imperium is no better than the medieval peasants who see something and interpret it as Gods will. Does the Emperor actually control the Tarot or do people just use it, look at the results and think to themselves "yep the Emperor wills that"

Im just wondering if I should go for a walk today.....*looks out window and sees its a little cloudy*....nope God wills it that I stay indoors today it seems.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

I think this argument is pointless. It's logic vs a made up fantasy universe and I don't see either side winning.

I agree that Guilliman *shouldn't* be able to be healing inside the field (it being *stasis* and all) but, then again, if time really is frozen within in the field we shouldn't actually be able to see what the hell is going on inside the thing because there'd be no moving light waves.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

So I read over a link about the shrine of Guilliman...

Turns out that he was frozen the instant he died, not a few moments before it.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Shrine_of_Guilliman

So how is a dead man supposed to heal? 

Also:

"There are some, however, who claim the Primarch's wounds do change. They say that Guilliman's body is slowly recovering and that his wounds show mysterious signs of healing. Others deny the phenomena, and point out the sheer impossibility of change within the Stasis field."

Sounds like someone's having the same trouble we are. lol


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> It's physically impossible to split a titan in half with the power of your mind.
> 
> It's physically impossible to communicate telepathically
> 
> It's physically impossible to make yourself bullet proof by wanting it real bad


Not if your an ork or a psyker.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Well the latest marine codex specifically refers to him as a corpse.

Edit: Actually on relfection it specificies him as a body and says "He is preserved in death by a stasis field impervious to the decaying effects of time"

To me that outright solves the arguement, it outright states hes dead, the stasis field isn't keeping him alive, it's stopping his body from decaying.

Edit again!: And then a few pages on it goes on to say "upon that throne sits a regal corpse. Though the best part of ten thousands years have passed since his death, the Primarchs body is perfectly preserved. Even his death wounds are visible upon his throat. His mortal remains are preserved from the ravages of time by means of a stasis field that isolates the Primarch from the time-stream. Everything encompassed by the field is trapped in time and can neither change nor decay"

So sorry folks, hes fucking dead. You can't heal from death, no matter how much superstitous pilgrims may want to believe. He died, then was put in stasis, even 40k isn't ludicrous enough to have someone heal themselves from death. The words of simple human pilgrims aren't enough to negate the facts that Guilliman would be pushing up daisies if they hadn't trapped his sorry ass in a time field.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Well the latest marine codex specifically refers to him as a corpse.
> 
> Edit: Actually on relfection it specificies him as a body and says "He is preserved in death by a stasis field impervious to the decaying effects of time"
> 
> ...


And just to put a nail in the coffin, has there ever been an instance in 40k where someone has been brought back to life from death, without the powers of the warp?

Because if there hasn't and some people say Guilliman is healing... then I smell heresy.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> even 40k isn't ludicrous enough to have someone heal themselves from death.


Yes, because resurrection is where they draw that line. Guess that hasn't happened before. Gotcha.k:


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Yes, because resurrection is where they draw that line. Guess that hasn't happened before. Gotcha.k:





Weapon said:


> And just to put a nail in the coffin, has there ever been an instance in 40k where someone has been brought back to life from death, without the powers of the warp?
> 
> Because if there hasn't and some people say Guilliman is healing... then I smell heresy.


Explanation please?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Weapon said:


> And just to put a nail in the coffin, has there ever been an instance in 40k where someone has been brought back to life from death, without the powers of the warp?



Top of my head, the Dark Eldar and their Haemonculi.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Weapon said:


> Explanation please?


Explain what?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Im guessing he wants you to explain where ressurection has happened before in 40k. I can't ever recall any instance of a being self-ressurecting in 40k myself.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Im guessing he wants you to explain where ressurection has happened before in 40k. I can't ever recall any instance of a being self-ressurecting in 40k myself.


It doesn't have to be self-resurection. Could very well be some other place. In any case, I was saying that it wouldn't be out of the real of possibility at all.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

But this is self ressurection, and the idea is absurd, even for 40k that something within a stasis field could bring itself back from the dead.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Yeah DE bring back the Dead, by making Clones and somehow not yet explain bringing the DE soul into the new body. 

Still no Self Ressurection. First off if Guilliman can resurect his ravage corpse, then surely the Emperor be tap dancing right now? Fuking Ultrasmurf loving hypocrites.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> But this is self ressurection, and the idea is absurd, even for 40k that something within a stasis field could bring itself back from the dead.


The shamans could resurrect themselves after death. There is nothing that is absurd in/to 40k. It is a fantasy, anything could happen.

Will Guiliman come back? Probably not, but that isn't to say he can't.


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## xNoPityx (Dec 23, 2010)

I always find it funny when fans argue about logic and reason in a fantasy universe. Anyways, if the emperor can slowly die in stasis why can't granddaddy smurf slowly heal in stasis? And to tell you the truth I always that it was plausible that big g could come back. Space marines have tons of back up systems. For all we now a Primarch could have some back up organ that lets them recover from anything not immediately fatal given enough time.


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

KingOfCheese said:


> He was put into the stasis right at the moment of death.
> The moment he is released from the statis, he will be dead.
> 
> As for his wounds healing..... its physically impossible. Its a STASIS.
> ...


Anything can happen, but let's be honest here, I'm one of those that honestly believes that unless GW comes out and says NO to it, I believe they're setting up the perfect conditions that (did they want to do it, it would be plausible) has the Emperor of Mankind, actually becoming a God once we hit midnight (as we've been at the 2 minutes till midnight for awhile now). Could I be wrong? Possibly. Could you be wrong here as well? Again, possibly.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

xNoPityx said:


> For all we now a Primarch could have some back up organ that lets them recover from anything not immediately fatal given enough time.


But his wound was immediately fatal, hence why he died.

And i understand your point about trying to use logic and rules in a fantasy universe, but like i said in my previous post, the universe has set rules and guidelines within the fantasy, break those rules and you risk the fans beomce annoyed and disinterested. And that's exactly what they would be doing if they miracolously ressurected Guilliman. Shit why don't we just resurrect Dorn, Sanguinius and Manus whilst we're at it, all we needs a paper-mache head for Manus and we'll be laughing.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

xNoPityx said:


> For all we now a Primarch could have some back up organ that lets them recover from anything not immediately fatal given enough time.


I agree, said the same thing a while ago. 

For all we know Fulgrim could have used another blade besides the Anathame. When Fulgrim fought Guilliman, he was a multi-limbed Daemon at the time and perhaps the sword that broke past Guilliman's defenses was another blade dipped in some unknown poison which a Primarch's regenerative abilities could deal with if given the chance. 

Seriously think about it, maybe if they let Guilliman slip into a coma, his body could have cured itself when instead his followers stuck him into a tube when he was unconscious, preventing/hindering him from recovering.

It's odd how the Kinebrach, the aliens who created the Anathame, co-existed with the Interex despite producing such a potent weapon which raises another question.

If this blade was as deadly as it is claimed to be, then why didn't the Kinebrach use it to wipe out the Interex and take over them? They could have easily used the blade to target their leader and devise a way of getting the blade to him. And if they could mass produce this blade, what stopped them?

Could the blade of had a weakness? Maybe it wasn't as potent to certain beings? The Interex were superior to the Imperium when it came to technology, and if I am not mistaken, they used to combine alien DNA with their own to overcome deficiencies (or perhaps I mixed them up with Abnett's Quietude human sub-species) which would explain their resilience to many things.

Or given their advanced tech, maybe the Interex devised a cure against a warring Kinebrach who possibly did try reproducing the blade/using it against their leader and thus rendering it useless.

I mean they put such a potentially devastating weapon in a lightly guarded (or was it even guarded?) *museum *as opposed to locking it up in a vault or destroying it.

Another thing I found odd is how Fulgrim, a Slaanesh oriented Primarch would use a blade empowered/created for Nurgle when he would most likely deem such a blade as being imperfect and _dirty _.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

How many times do we have to iterate that Guilliman actually died, he didn't fall into a coma. It's nothing so simple(well not even thats simple) as recovering from a wound, he's actually dead. As the Dodo, pushing up daisies, gone to pastures new, toes up to the sky, six feet under. Dead.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

D E D, ded


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> Yeah DE bring back the Dead, by making Clones and somehow not yet explain bringing the DE soul into the new body.


Actually, if a DE arranges to be cloned upon death, s/he leaves a portion of his/her soul with the haemonculus via one of those soul container things. So that is how that happens. 



Angel of Blood said:


> How many times do we have to iterate that Guilliman actually died, he didn't fall into a coma. It's nothing so simple(well not even thats simple) as recovering from a wound, he's actually dead. As the Dodo, pushing up daisies, gone to pastures new, toes up to the sky, six feet under. Dead.


Just to clarify, how dead did you say he was? :scratchhead:  

Nah, even the UM acknowledge that their big guy is gone. :don-t_mention:


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Basically, Guilliman is gone, so get over it....

Unlike the Lion (Y) :yahoo:


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

People are probably mixing up Guilliman with the Lion.

But, but he's not an Ultramarine!

HOW CAN HE BE ALIVE WHEN GUILLIMAN ISN'T?!?!?!


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Don't worry, i'm sure when Matt Ward writes the next Dark Angels codex Jonson will snuff it.


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## Mannimarco (Apr 27, 2011)

Angel of Blood said:


> Don't worry, i'm sure when Matt Ward writes the next Dark Angels codex Jonson will snuff it.


Ah but hes still a marine and as a marine he will single handedly destroy at least 3 avatars and completely annihilate at least 1 species.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I find it ironic that people are arguing about "science" in 40k when the very idea of a device that freezes time in a certain space is ridiculous. Furthermore, do stasis fields literally freeze time, or do they slow it down to an imperceptible trickle? Would that rule necessarily apply to primarchs?

we all know the Warp was heavily involved in the primarchs' creation, perhaps they could somehow defy the laws of stasis, everything else in 40k is whacky, there are no absolutes in this space fantasy universe. *If psychic energy can leave a stasis field (the Golden Throne), if the Emperor can decay in a stasis field*, why can't psychic energy enter a stasis field, why can't Guilliman heal?

I've read sources that say Guilliman was put into stasis at the brink of death, others that say it was at the instant of death (but this is a universe where people have souls, resurrection isn't unheard of, and belief actually shapes reality). Either way, the fluff writers have definitely left themselves enough wiggle room (by 40k standards) to revive Guiliiman, it's simply a matter of whether they have the desire to do so.
*
Do I want Guilliman to return? Not necessarily. Would his return decrease the verisimilitude of 40k (if such a thing even exists)? No.*


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Don't worry, i'm sure when Matt Ward writes the next Dark Angels codex Jonson will snuff it.


Ok, that would be the fucking line.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

MontytheMighty said:


> I find it ironic that people are arguing about "science" in 40k when the very idea of a device that freezes time in a certain space is ridiculous. Furthermore, do stasis fields literally freeze time, or do they slow it down to an imperceptible trickle?
> 
> we all know the Warp was heavily involved in the primarchs' creation, perhaps they could somehow defy the laws of stasis, everything else in 40k is whacky, there are no absolutes in this space fantasy universe. *If psychic energy can leave a stasis field (the Golden Throne), if the Emperor can decay in a stasis field*, why can't psychic energy enter a stasis field, why can't Guilliman heal?
> 
> The fluff writers have definitely left themselves enough wiggle room (by 40k standards) to revive Guiliiman, it's simply a matter of whether they have the desire to do so.


Once Again, to quote what i said before



Angel of Blood said:


> But in the world of 40k stasis fields act exactly like this, disregard all the other shit that can go on in the 40k verse, thats all down to Willing Suspension of Disbelief. But stasis fields work like they are described, this is Magic A is Magic A. Start messing with that and your now breaking the External/Genre/Internal Consistency of 40k, which in turn fucks up and negates mine/your/our Willing Suspension of Disbelief.


Yes its a fantasy universe where technologies such as stasis fields exist, but they have set rules and consistencies within the universe, and as part of our willing suspension of disbelief(WSOD), we accept them. Same as in Star Wars, Battlestar and numerous other sci-fis. 

In Battlestar Galactica for example, we accept that they can 'jump' their starships across the galaxy, they have robots/cyborgs that look and act like humans, we can accept all this as part of WSOD, and they have set the rules for this universe. But if for example a Cylon or Human was to suddenly start teleporting themselves around the ships or start using telekinisis or any random power, then they've now broken the rules set within the world and will break peoples WSOD and the consistency of the fictional universe. Theres countless examples you can come up with. 

In the case of 40k, stasis fields have been established to completely stop time within them, making it impossible to 'heal' within them, or in this case self-ressurect. By braking this rule they are changing the rules, consistencies and laws within the universe. And therefore fuck things up.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

Actually, wasn't the Emperor able to talk for a while when he was first put on the Golden Throne?

What the fuck kind of stasis field is this?

I'll bet it actually does nothing.

"DON'T WORRY EMPEROR SIR, WE HAVE THIS LIFE SUPPORT CHAIR TO KEEP YOU ALIVE"

"If this is another wheelchair, someone's getting executed for heresy..."

"NO SIR, THIS IS THE PINNACLE OF YOUR WORK. WE'RE SURE IT'LL WORK."

"MY work? I never made a magical life-supporting chair that- ooh. Comfy."

"CAN WE GET YOU ANYTHING?"

"How about a sandwich? I'm starving after that epic battl-"

"NO. HERE, HAVE SOME PSYCHIC PEOPLE INSTEAD."

"Heh, you guys. I could seriously use some food here though."

"EAT THEM."

"_What?_"

"WITH YOUR BRAIN."

"No wonder I'm humanity's last hope..."

"SIR YOU AREN'T GETTING OFF THAT CHAIR UNTIL YOU'VE EATEN ALL OF THESE PSYCHIC SOULS"

"You do realise that I can get up whenever I want, right? It's not THAT comfy"

"THIS IS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD SIR. IT HURTS US MORE THAN IT HURTS YOU. WELL, THE PSYCHIC PEOPLE AT LEAST."

"I'm actually starving. Please feed me something physical before I die."

"NO. BON APPETIT."

And so began the game that we all love and play.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Here's something relevant to the argument over whether it's possible to heal in a stasis field 

In _Age of Darkness_ (the short story _Liar's Due_) 



> Behind the glitter of the *stasis field*, she resembled an image from a video feed frozen in mid-motion. Mendacs didn’t understand the technology by which the device worked, knowing only that it could cast an envelope over a limited area, and *within that barrier the passage of time slowed to a crawl*.


so apparently as I suspected, a stasis field does not literally stop the flow of time, it only slows the passage of time to a crawl


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## lobukia (Jun 18, 2010)

Lion, Russ, Khan, RG, Vulkan, Corax are all going to come back some time. GW has intentionally dropped every hint south of a neon sign that they are leaving the door open for their return. 

We are all given the strong allusion that El' Jonson will wake up and send out "I'll take you back" tweets to the Fallen, Leman will storm out of the warp on a chaos wolf with the drunk 13th Company in tow, Khan will roar out of the webway with Avatar heads on his bike, Guilliman will walk out of a stasis field and recite the Codex Ultima Prime that he's been creating in his spare time and correct all the misspellings in the Imperium, Vulkan will return with "How to Serve Daemons" (its a cook book, folks), and Corax will come flying hope weeping poetry and showing off his newly knitted flight jacket (which makes him immune to melta damage). 

We all know this is all coming... otherwise why would they keep telling us it might not?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Where have they hinted that what you say will happen?


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## SlamHammer (Mar 28, 2011)

Well for resurrection, Justicar Thrawn does that all the time. :grin:

Also, if the Emperor wills it, that shit is gonna happen whether we like it or not.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

The only thing the Emperor has consciously willed for 10k years is his bowel movements I'm afraid : (


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Couldn't a Primarch's regenerative power be so strong it overcomes the stasis effects just a little?


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Guilliman isn't dead. Rather he's about two heartbeats away from it. To me, that's quite a lot of wiggle-room for a Primarch in a stasis field. 
It might be that there are different types of stasis field, some stopping time completely, or as close to completely as you can get, a second lasting billions of years, for instance; if, though, as _Liar's Due_ says, time isn't actually stopped but slowed down massively, then, well, who knows...
Of course, I'm not saying that Guilliman is totally alive and ready to kick many arses, just as soon as he's got this itch on his own arse sorted out. Rather, this is the lovely 40K grey area, GW's Uncertainty Principle, if you will. It's all how you look at things, as a famous Jedi once said: Horus was a redeemer, Horus was an Arch-Traitor; the Emperor is a guardian of Humanity, the Emperor is a bloodthirsty tyrant; Roboute Guilliman is a whisker away from death, Roboute Guilliman is healing slowly. In the 40K 'verse, more than most, where you stand defines the truths you see; something that carries over to us looking in.

GFP


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

KingOfCheese said:


> He was put into the stasis right at the moment of death.
> The moment he is released from the statis, he will be dead.
> 
> As for his wounds healing..... its physically impossible. Its a STASIS.
> ...


You are more than likely very right, if you turned the stasis field off he would probably die in seconds. However, he is a primarch an almost god like being, they are known for pulling off the impossible.


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

He was struck by the anathema which very nearly killed Horus during the fight on Davin. HE will not be back.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Sigh...........once *again*. Guilliman is not wounded in stasis, he is dead. Clinically dead, his corpse is in stasis to perserve it.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Angel of Blood said:


> Sigh...........once *again*. Guilliman is not wounded in stasis, he is dead. Clinically dead, his corpse is in stasis to perserve it.


In the far future...there is only retcons


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Angel of Blood said:


> Sigh...........once *again*. Guilliman is not wounded in stasis, he is dead. Clinically dead, his corpse is in stasis to perserve it.





Words_of_Truth said:


> In the far future...there is only retcons


Both VERY valid comments.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

The amount of wiggle-room reduces dramatically! IA: UM says '... as he died, the Apothecaries set up their stasis fields...' So, yes, he's dead, but the bony hand is on his shoulder, the scythe poised...
I'm not trying to push some blind Guilliman-love, but, to me at least, the myths of the 40K 'verse are what make it. A corpse sits on Macragge, but one who's heart han't quite pumped its last, who's last breath is still caught in its lungs, who's body hasn't cooled. That sliver of of a sliver of a splinter of a nothing, just makes it more fun.
It's like the Rapture that's supposedly happening on Saturday. I know it won't, but what if the crazies are right this time? Guilliman is dead, but what if the pilgrims are right this time? 
He's dead, but in the fragment of a foriegn world's atmosphere that still lingers, inert, in lungs frozen in time, there lies the possibility.

GFP


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Pffft. Why don't we just revive Dorn and Sanguinius at the same time, they are both just as dead as Guilliman.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Angel of Blood said:


> Pffft. Why don't we just revive Dorn and Sanguinius at the same time, they are both just as dead as Guilliman.


lol I argue as ever that the info regarding Dorn's death is well outdated and shouldn't be considered prime canon any more. We've already seen info from the Index Astartes articles completely rewritten and changed.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

That a sign of bad storytelling.... but then thats what happens when you refuse to progress the story that is 40k and rehash everything to the point of who gives a fuck! Its sad that one day these great HH books will porbaly be retcon as well and be treated like crap stories.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I brought up the quote about stasis fields to point out that the categorical statement "it's absolutely impossible to heal in a stasis field" is simply 

whether Guilliman is two heartbeats from death or actually dead in the stasis field, well I don't know to be honest. I think GW has been purposefully vague. 
Perhaps the apothecaries thought he died but he was actually still alive (barely)...I just don't think Guilliman's return would detract from the "realism" of 40k, it really wouldn't in my opinion

people who don't like the UM obviously hate the idea, it might even be a dead-end in terms of plot development (how would Guilliman fit into 40k? is there even a place for him in 40k?), but is it whackier than a lot of the other crazy shit that happens in 40k? I would have to say "no". 



Warlock in Training said:


> That a sign of bad storytelling.... but then thats what happens when you refuse to progress the story that is 40k and rehash everything to the point of who gives a fuck! Its sad that one day these great HH books will porbaly be retcon as well and be treated like crap stories.


i feel you mate


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Theres nothing vague about it in the Marine codex, it outright states he is dead, a corpse, killed. Theres no maybe in it. In the words of the great african american heart monitor "He dead"


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Angel of Blood said:


> Theres nothing vague about it in the Marine codex, it outright states he is dead, a corpse, killed. Theres no maybe in it. In the words of the great african american heart monitor "He dead"


Does it say it from an objective, subjective, omnipresent etc view?


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## Azrell (Jul 16, 2010)

Who cares if he did heal, he would probably just wake up and then run off into the eye of terror like every other primarach that lived through the HH.


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