# Alpha Warrior = Awesome?



## H0RRIDF0RM (Mar 6, 2008)

So the new Tyranid HQ the Alpha Warrior off the top of my head gets

too much information.

Now if I purchase a pair of Bonesword, Adrenal Glands, Toxic Sacs and swap the Devourer for Scything Talons I end up with an Independant Character

WS6 Reroll all 1's on to hit rolls
4 Attacks/5 on the Charge
S6 Power Weapon Reroll all failed wounds against T6 or less.
Take a Leadership Test against 3d6 or die.



Beautiful part is a can nab him for for the cost of 22 Spinegaunts.

Now what are my options for him???

Alpha Warrior + 19 Termagaunts + Landing Spore


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I'm not sure exactly what crosses the line from "Small amounts of necessary information" and "Intellectual Property Infringement".

As far as I know, people don't like it when you post full stat lines, so you might be asked to take it down. That isn't really on topic, but is worth noting.

Oh, and for the cost of 22 Gaunts, you have something that dies on 2s to a powerfist hit. Um. :wink:


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

H0RRIDF0RM said:


> So the new Tyranid HQ the Alpha Warrior off the top of my head gets
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And this can get owned by One Lascannon shot...:laugh:


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

I don't know how many pts 22 guants equals, but it sounds alot, also you'll have to give him a decent sized/strength squad for wound absorption. And it still sounds like a bulls eye for ordnance.


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## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

Scything talons no longer give another attack from what I've read.

Also a pair of boneswords doesn't give you another attack.

So you're still only going to get 4 attacks.

The main advantage I see to Alpha Warriors is that they will pass on their WS6 and BS4 to any squad of warriors they join, which *will* be nice


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## Arkanor (Jan 1, 2010)

bobss said:


> And this can get owned by One Lascannon shot...:laugh:


Except for the 19 ablative wounds he threw in there.

Powerfist'll definitely do 'er. I'd be more worried about Warriors inheriting his skill.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

that+demolisher cannons=next target please

although I see the stats being taken down pretty sharpish


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Mmm, the statline is a bit excessive, surprised no-one *reported* it.

As for the build, Critta is right, it only has 4 attacks. The biggest selling point of Boneswords is the Power Weapon feature. When you put him in a Warrior unit with a few Rending Claws you'll have a devastating assualt unit.

Putting him in a Gaunt unit makes him a defensive Character, as you don't want your Gaunts charging into enemy squads, as they simply have to Powerfist your Warrior and the Gaunts will probably die soon after. As such, Adrenal Glands may not be the best choice, and Lashwhip and Bonesword would help the Gaunts put some more hurt on the enemy unit.

I think of the Alpha Warrior as a deterent to small units wanting to tie your Gaunts up. With his attacks you should be able to get rid of most of the unit and win combat, hopefully letting you be unengaged in your turn.


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

Be careful with statlines guys. GW Legal Eagles are on the prowl.


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## H0RRIDF0RM (Mar 6, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Mmm, the statline is a bit excessive, surprised no-one *reported* it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What I'm looking at is you can hide a Warrior in a brood of gaunts and use him to boost combat resolution or use the Warrior to crush other IC and or MC's

Also take a look at the correction the Warrior is T5 it was a mistake I made with the statline. So this changes the dread Powerfist debate and opens up a new discussion.

I do like the idea of adding him to Warrior Squads as well what loadout would you suggest.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

I think that sounds good, but yeah, he'll get insta killed no-thanks to the new synapse rule  I say put him in a large brood of warriors so that you can dedicate the wounds to the other guys, but even then...


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

spacing out a warrior and 19 gaunts?, I'd like to see that on a board with proper amounts of cover to move around/through, once 3 thunderers get to work and a whole guard line of flamers gets burning its not gonna amount to much, may as well just buy more gaunts with a warrior unit behind them using them as cover.


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## Llamafish (Mar 3, 2009)

most of the new stuff in the "playtest" list looks rubbish, it going to boil down to the old favorites from the old codex with the odd thing like trygon and tervigon going to be used. With out protection from instant kill, lot of this fancy unit i crying out to be lascannoned in the face lol

warriors still going to get pie plated from afar as power weapons with instant kill going to get some negative attention from the heavy hittings

and gaunts..... i really could not care less about them


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## Arkanor (Jan 1, 2010)

Stella Cadente said:


> spacing out a warrior and 19 gaunts?, I'd like to see that on a board with proper amounts of cover to move around/through, once 3 thunderers get to work and a whole guard line of flamers gets burning its not gonna amount to much, may as well just buy more gaunts with a warrior unit behind them using them as cover.


It's very easy to space units out enough to avoid a large blast template. You might hit 2 in a line.

Regardless, effective strategy doesn't begin with the strategem "Shoot it with <gun>", because the battle isn't an isolated case of your <gun> versus <unit>, there is another probably very angry army behind that unit as well.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Given that he can't be instant killed by a Powerfist makes him much more useful, though I still think he is an assualt deterent in a Gaunt Brood (or Shooty Warrior Brood for that matter)


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Even without being instant death'ed by a powerfist, if that powerfist survives to the end of the second CC phase, the Alpha Warrior is statistically dead (3 Attacks, 1.5 hits per round, only 3 wounds).

I see him as being an uber-sergeant for a Warrior unit. That's about it.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Sethis said:


> I see him as being an uber-sergeant for a Warrior unit. That's about it.


I agree with this statement, been able to buff the Brood's stats is made of win imo, but I have yet to decide whether to give him a gun or let him be a c/c deterrent against assaulters.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

HOBO said:


> I agree with this statement, been able to buff the Brood's stats is made of win imo, but I have yet to decide whether to give him a gun or let him be a c/c deterrent against assaulters.


Why not both? Mine Alpha Warrior will just have a Deathspiter and Twin-Boneswords. Dangerous in assualts, especially when given back-up by his brood AND he can shoot. Not too pricey either.


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## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

Sethis said:


> Even without being instant death'ed by a powerfist, if that powerfist survives to the end of the second CC phase, the Alpha Warrior is statistically dead (3 Attacks, 1.5 hits per round, only 3 wounds).
> 
> I see him as being an uber-sergeant for a Warrior unit. That's about it.


Ok, so the alpha may statistically die by the end of the second combat phase, but my questions is this - if the alpha is backed up by a warrior brood, they're going to be throwing out a lot of WS6 attacks, and with twin boneswords, they'll all count as having power weapons. Plus they have higher initiative than marines.

I wouldn't put money on a marine squad surviving to make their attacks in a second round of combat unless the warrior brood the alpha was with was seriously decimated.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Was talking about him being in a Gaunt unit.


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## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

Oh right... in my mind, there's only one place that alpha warriors belong, leading warrior broods. Preferably from Landing spores


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Sethis said:


> I see him as being an uber-sergeant for a Warrior unit. That's about it.


I agree with this, he fits the unit both fluff wise, rules wise and weapon wise 



Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Given that he can't be instant killed by a Powerfist makes him much more useful, though I still think he is an assualt deterent in a Gaunt Brood (or Shooty Warrior Brood for that matter)


Shooty Warriors would also benefit the most out of the stat bonus he gives. I would personally completely ignore if there is 1 Aplha Warrior in a unit of gaunts. Id assault anyway and kill 10+ gaunts in 1 sweep and suck up the 2 wouds he deals back like a man and watch the whole brood disintegrate from No Retreat wounds:laugh:

Those Warriors are actually a bit dangerous themselves, and the Alpha Warrior bumps this to really dangerous status. He might actually deter someone in a unit like this, unlike amongst the gaunts:wink:


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Why not both? Mine Alpha Warrior will just have a Deathspiter and Twin-Boneswords. Dangerous in assualts, especially when given back-up by his brood AND he can shoot. Not too pricey either.


Ah yes, I didn't look hard enough at what standard gear/upgrades he has...so sweet, it shall be so.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

MaidenManiac said:


> I agree with this, he fits the unit both fluff wise, rules wise and weapon wise
> 
> Shooty Warriors would also benefit the most out of the stat bonus he gives. I would personally completely ignore if there is 1 Aplha Warrior in a unit of gaunts. Id assault anyway and kill 10+ gaunts in 1 sweep and suck up the 2 wouds he deals back like a man and watch the whole brood disintegrate from No Retreat wounds:laugh:
> 
> Those Warriors are actually a bit dangerous themselves, and the Alpha Warrior bumps this to really dangerous status. He might actually deter someone in a unit like this, unlike amongst the gaunts:wink:


I don't disagree with you at all, the best place for an Alpha Warrior is a unit of Warriors and not just because of his boost, because the very nature of the two parts.

However, when a say an assualt deterent, I don't mean detering things like Nobz, Stealers, Vanguard or Blood Claws. I mean things like Tactical Marines.

Example: 10 Tactical Marines charge 20 Guants.
No Alpha: Tactical Marines lose 1, Gaunts lose 15-16 after No retreat.
Alpha: Tactical Marines lose 3, Gaunts lose 10 after No Retreat.

Not the best, but it is bad news for the Tactical Marines when they can't bust through Gaunts :laugh:

Still, Alpha's belong with Warriors.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Alpha Warriors are great in normal Warrior Broods. They have a high enough Toughness to be able to absorb some of the Strength 8-9 shots that will no doubt be coming the Warriors' way hoping to bag themselves a 30+ point model in a single shot. Just allocate the dark lance/lascannon shot onto the Alpha Warrior, roll the cover save and the unit is in no worse shape than when it started out.  Then there's the whole sharing of WS and BS thing which is just too awesome, especially with devourers.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Alpha Warriors are great in normal Warrior Broods. They have a high enough Toughness to be able to absorb some of the Strength 8-9 shots that will no doubt be coming the Warriors' way hoping to bag themselves a 30+ point model in a single shot. Just allocate the dark lance/lascannon shot onto the Alpha Warrior, roll the cover save and the unit is in no worse shape than when it started out.  Then there's the whole sharing of WS and BS thing which is just too awesome, especially with devourers.


And the 4 Power Weapon attacks he can add for a mere 10points


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Yeah, the ability to allocate anything but a Railgun wound to him is pretty sexy too.

Question is, is he worth the points? I mean a squad leader that takes up an HQ slot, and seems to be rather expensive, and may not even get to do what he does best...? Maybe in the 2000+ points games, or small games in place of a Tyrant?


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> I don't disagree with you at all, the best place for an Alpha Warrior is a unit of Warriors and not just because of his boost, because the very nature of the two parts.
> 
> However, when a say an assualt deterent, I don't mean detering things like Nobz, Stealers, Vanguard or Blood Claws. I mean things like Tactical Marines.


Just like others Im thinking in "my own armies pov", and yea both CSM and SW are noticeably much more dangerous in CC then Tactical Marines. Should have pointed that out I guess 



Sethis said:


> Yeah, the ability to allocate anything but a Railgun wound to him is pretty sexy too.
> 
> Question is, is he worth the points? I mean a squad leader that takes up an HQ slot, and seems to be rather expensive, and may not even get to do what he does best...? Maybe in the 2000+ points games, or small games in place of a Tyrant?


I think his place in a Tyranid Army is the ones where you really want to cream out all points you can in other sections. You can get away with a ~100 pts HQ that really aint shabby. He will be the Tyranid version of the Librarian, a fairly cheap HQ that still fills a role in the army

The 100 pts "intended bullet shield plan" sounds like crap to me tbh. Buy 3 more Warriors instead, it will benefit you more for sure:good:


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## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

Drake isn't saying that Alphas belong in a warrior brood to take hits, she is just pointing out that the addition of an alpha to a warrior brood not only boosts WS and BS, but also suvivability. Theres no reason not to put the alpha with other warriors.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Put it this way- you have to take an HQ and if you don't want to spend the points on the big things, it gives you a cheap HQ that actually serves a purpose.


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

I think its a healthy addition if you take a large squad of warriors as a backbone to your guants. I dont know about anyone else, but I cant imagine taking more than 1-2 squads of warriors in the first place (40-50$ for 3 is my main deterent, but many units will be a point sink compared to guants, or even stealers). And for that 1 backbone squad, a super sgt will definetly be worth it imo.


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## H0RRIDF0RM (Mar 6, 2008)

-So we know that he can only be instant killed by Str 10
-That his dual Boneswords are instant IC, MC killers.
-That his buff makes Warriors significantly better at Assualt and Shooting
-and he can prevent Warrior instant gib against Str 8.

So for 235 points you can spend your mandatory HQ and a Troop Choice

for 3 Death Spitters, and a Venom Cannon with 15 wounds and the IC MC killer. 

So is this a nice block of points on 2 mandatory unit comps or do we have something better?


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## flankman (Jan 26, 2009)

id say and alpha warrior with a warrior squad coming out of a trygon whole would be a nice way to protect it from battle cannons and other long range death and on that turn you should be able to kill/stun what even can down that squad the turn in comes in from reserves not to mention 10 warriors shooting at bs4 is nasty (not sure what guns more worth it tho devourers or deathspitters)


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

I would take Deathpsiters purely for the extra range.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> I would take Deathpsiters purely for the extra range.


I was under the impression that deathspitters had the same range as devourers, just more Strength and a better AP?

Besides, how much range do you need if you plan on hopping out of a Trygon hole? You can more or less appear right among the enemy and let rip with a bunch of accurate, medium strength shots and still receive a charge very well. The only thing that worries me about using a Trygon hole is that you're coming into range of basically all of the enemy's guns. Warriors are tough, but even Ogryns fall to enough bolter shots and Warriors are definitely not Ogryns.

EDIT: Actually, Warriors are more resilient than Ogryns now, aren't they? Less Toughness, but a better armor save. Hmm...


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> I was under the impression that deathspitters had the same range as devourers, just more Strength and a better AP?
> 
> Besides, how much range do you need if you plan on hopping out of a Trygon hole? You can more or less appear right among the enemy and let rip with a bunch of accurate, medium strength shots and still receive a charge very well. The only thing that worries me about using a Trygon hole is that you're coming into range of basically all of the enemy's guns. Warriors are tough, but even Ogryns fall to enough bolter shots and Warriors are definitely not Ogryns.
> 
> EDIT: Actually, Warriors are more resilient than Ogryns now, aren't they? Less Toughness, but a better armor save. Hmm...


O_O They've cut my Deathspiters range. Gah. Looks like I'm supporting Devourers now


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## H0RRIDF0RM (Mar 6, 2008)

flankman said:


> id say and alpha warrior with a warrior squad coming out of a trygon whole would be a nice way to protect it from battle cannons and other long range death and on that turn you should be able to kill/stun what even can down that squad the turn in comes in from reserves not to mention 10 warriors shooting at bs4 is nasty (not sure what guns more worth it tho devourers or deathspitters)


This is very hard to sync. The Trygon hole doesn't work well since units cannot come out the turn he arrive. That basiclly means you have to hope for your Trygon to arrive turn 2, and then your Warriors turn 3.



Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> O_O They've cut my Deathspiters range. Gah. Looks like I'm supporting Devourers now


Deathspitters are Str 5 so you can pop Rhino's!!!! but yeah...


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Yeah, no. Devourers are just plain better. I know deathspitters aren't expensive, but I'd rather save the 15+ points and just hang onto my already lovely three shot guns of doom. Warriors aren't cheap as is, so it's important to be very careful deciding which upgrades to give them.


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## flankman (Jan 26, 2009)

its s4 assault 3 vs str 5 ap 5 assaut 3 devs are free and deathspitters are i believe 5 points / model

and well i assumed a unit can come in on the same turn the trygon can (dint read the actual codex yet)


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

flankman said:


> its s4 assault 3 vs str 5 ap 5 assaut 3 devs are free and deathspitters are i believe 5 points / model
> 
> and well i assumed a unit can come in on the same turn the trygon can (dint read the actual codex yet)


Yeah, those stats are correct. Is the increase in shooting power worth the extra points, though?


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Yeah, those stats are correct. Is the increase in shooting power worth the extra points, though?


I think it is much of a muchness. I'll keep deathspiters cause thats what my Warriors currently have, and I'm not stretched for points so I don't mind.

However, Devourers are still a nice option, as is Spinefists on the Alpha.


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## H0RRIDF0RM (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm sincerely doubting this guy in a squad of Warriors. I ran him in 3 games and found my Warrior squad getting nuked by Long Fangs, Havocs, and even Hive Guard. When 2-3 Warriors die in 1 phase to a unit that costs 15-45 points more then them was :cray:

The only time I managed to get my Alpha into close combat was after I chain moved him from the Warriors, to Genestealers, then back to gaunts. He's also pitfully slow compared to Genestealers, and or the Trygon who cost relatively around the same ballpark.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

H0RRIDF0RM said:


> I'm sincerely doubting this guy in a squad of Warriors. I ran him in 3 games and found my Warrior squad getting nuked by Long Fangs, Havocs, and even Hive Guard. When 2-3 Warriors die in 1 phase to a unit that costs 15-45 points more then them was :cray:
> 
> The only time I managed to get my Alpha into close combat was after I chain moved him from the Warriors, to Genestealers, then back to gaunts. He's also pitfully slow compared to Genestealers, and or the Trygon who cost relatively around the same ballpark.


How are you running your warriors? I think they are a sub-par assualt unit in the first place.


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## H0RRIDF0RM (Mar 6, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> How are you running your warriors? I think they are a sub-par assualt unit in the first place.


Warrior Prime 
-Dual Bonesword
-Deathspitter
-Adrenal Gland
-Toxic Sacs

Warriors x 3 
-Deathspitters, & Scything Talons

220 points.

I tried Devourers once also.


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