# Would you rather be an Imperial Guardsman or a Tau human auxiliary?



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

What would you choose and more importantly *why*?


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

It's too open ended.

Would I like to be an Imperial Guardsman defending a civlized world? Where I mostly loaf around, drink a bit (not that I drink), swagger around the bars and have women swoon over my "heroics" on the battlefield?

Or am I stuck in the Cadian sub-sector where Chaos and God knows what is awaiting to devour my very immortal soul?

Am I a Human auxiliary on a planet about to be devoured by a Hive Fleet? or am I posted on largely peaceful, mostly human Tau septworld? Where I do nothing more strenuous than walk the grounds and make sure my kit is clean?


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## joebauerek (May 14, 2010)

Imperial Guardsman.... I'm second class and neither chain of command cares so I may as well fight for family, friends and race. The Tau just use you under a false guise whilst the imperium doesn't (well mostly). So the honesty goes a long way... plus dirty xeno's


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Tau auxiliaries are probably treated better and have a longer life exptancy to that of the Guardsman. The Tau also fight in a way that minimizes casualties as much as possible, instead of just throwing hordes into the meat grinder. 

Therefore, I will choose the auxiliary.


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

^what he said. Regardless of where they're stationed, fighting for the Tau will probably have you live longer. I like life. Ima go with tau


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## Protoss119 (Aug 8, 2010)

Imperial Guard. Just because I'm a guardsman, doesn't necessarily mean I'm stuck in an infantry platoon, or in the infantry at all...


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

Probably tau auxiliary. 

However, being a Savlar also sounds good...you know, all the stealing and drugs and playing pranks on the commissars...


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Imperial.

I would rather side with my own race than an alien no matter the benefits out of pride and simply human nature.

Second, the Kroot are banned from consuming the flesh of the Tau or their own kind. So human auxiliaries are fair game.

The Greater Good is also a scam. The Tau are an extremely naive and arrogant race. Their knowledge of the Warp/Chaos is practically zero and they haven't really seen the nitty gritty of the galaxy so far. 

Their empire is still extremely small in comparison to the other races and once they realize they can't outfit their armies in top notch gear as it grows and as their empire grows, they'll probably be in a worse state than the Imperium. They have no Space Marines, they have no Emperor to save them.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

Depends, who has the better pay and pension?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

I'm going with the tau...better gear and higher life expectancy, I also get to shoot a plasma weapon with out the change of losing my arm.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Even with the best life expected if taking tau's side, i simply cannot stand those goofy blue skinned half-manga joke of an alien. they should just submit to a mercyful exterminatus or return from the wretched japanese anime the came from.
Apart from that: GLORY TO CHAOS!!!


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## stein559 (May 3, 2013)

Gue'vesa Auxiliary, so I don't just get thrown into the meat grinder, as others have pointed out. 
Just out of curiosity


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Gonna go with Gue'vesa. Unlike the Guard command who do not care in the slightest about guardsmen or casualties, at least the Tau command care enough about minimalising casualties, which makes you feel slightly more valued, and gives you a better life expectancy. 

Of course, Auxiliaries also get 'shore' leave, whereas from what I can gather from Guard novels I have read once you are in the Guard that is it for the rest of your life - the only real 'break' you get is for warp travel (fun..) or parades. You are 'lucky' if you live past 15 hours.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Oh yeah and also: Better weapons. A glorified flashlight vs safe plasma weapons. I know which i'd choose.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Straken's_Fist said:


> Oh yeah and also: Better weapons. A glorified flashlight vs safe plasma weapons. I know which i'd choose.


And the armor armor that will stop said flash light and bolters or armor that can't....


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Get me in the Tanith 1st. No more explanation should be needed. With that being said, fuck you Xenos!


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I give my mind to the Neverdead to become their immortal servant. I will reap the souls of the galaxy under the Necron sigil. All shall know my name and despair:

_Pariah._

Oh ok fine if I had to choose between the two, Tau. Cooler guns and hot blue alien chicks for days.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

As long as the Tau Empire fail to publish a document so uplifting and truthful as the Uplifting Primer, I'll never join them!

Midnight


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## Garrak (Jun 18, 2012)

I'll stick by my race and Emperor. Besides, screw the xenos.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Having read through this thread we all have good answers that bring excellent points to light. However I feel there is one questions that we all have missed that is crucial to answer such a question.

Do the Tau treat there human auxiliaries fair, and supply them well? Or do they throw them away in battle just as easily as there Imperial Counter-Parts would?



Malus Darkblade said:


> Their knowledge of the Warp/Chaos is practically zero and they haven't really seen the nitty gritty of the galaxy so far.


While I agree Darkblade about there experience, I must bash on you for your comment on the Warp. Indeed I feel writers have put the Tau outside the normal Warp dimension travel. They are more akin to Star Trek I feel, as they have mastered space travel beyond the Warp. Similar to Eldar gateways the Tau don't travel through the "Warp" as we know it from my understanding. Therefore I feel they are more advanced than humanity which is stuck in a Dark Age.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> Having read through this thread we all have good answers that bring excellent points to light. However I feel there is one questions that we all have missed that is crucial to answer such a question.
> 
> Do the Tau treat there human auxiliaries fair, and supply them well? Or do they throw them away in battle just as easily as there Imperial Counter-Parts would?
> 
> ...


It varies with tau, the pathfinder shash'ui, captain, treated her human pathfinders with no visible differences. while the water caste ambassador was a condescending ass, although it seemed that extended to the shash'ui too, but he treated humans like they were little more than kids. A human gue'vesa had his vocal chords crushed by a commissar and the tau replaced them. 

The tau FTL is kind of skimming the warp, they dive into the dimension between the immaterium and matterium. As I have heard the tau ftl isn't as fast as humans but it's more accurate and safer. a tau fleet of 100 with exit relatively close to where they want, while a human fleet of 100 may vary by entire systems, seconds to years, and only 80 may survive. i.e. Several years after the Democulas gulf crusade a human warship exited warp and began firing at the tau sept world.

Imperial tech is pretty stagnate it hasn't advanced very much since the Great Crusade. While in the span of a short, relatively, time the tau have advanced from using sticks to safe plasma weapons. While the Imperium have forgotten how to make a safe plasma weapon. The tau are still not advanced in some areas as the Imperium.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

locustgate said:


> The tau FTL is kind of skimming the warp


I'm not sure I quite agree. After reading lots of Fluff on Lexicanum, and rereading the Last Chancer's chapter on the Tau ship they were transported on, I feel they actually enter an entirely different dimension. Think of the Warp as pudding, and FTL as Jell-O. Two different substances; I feel the Warp and FTL are like this.

In all honesty locustgate we could argue all day. However I'm sure you will agree with me that the writers wanted something different. I feel they wanted something akin to Star Wars or Star Trek. Take your pic


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> I'm not sure I quite agree. After reading lots of Fluff on Lexicanum, and rereading the Last Chancer's chapter on the Tau ship they were transported on, I feel they actually enter an entirely different dimension. Think of the Warp as pudding, and FTL as Jell-O. Two different substances; I feel the Warp and FTL are like this.
> 
> In all honesty locustgate we could argue all day. However I'm sure you will agree with me that the writers wanted something different. I feel they wanted something akin to Star Wars or Star Trek. Take your pic



"The best the Tau could do was make a partial transition, forcing themselves into the void that separated Warp space and real space before they were hurled out again, like a ball held under water then released. Data gathered at great cost during the test flights was studied closely. The Water caste scientists made the observation that the boundary between real space and warp space was not a neat line. It was closer to being a turbulent ocean fomented by the tempestuous warp tides below. By carefully angling their descent toward the Warp and extending the field generated by the gravitic drive into a wing, shaped to hold the vessel down, a Tau vessel could extend the duration of the "dive" considerably. The speeds achieved in the ascent back to real space were staggering and this, coupled with the effect of the Warp on time and space, ensured that the real distance covered by the dive was immense."

I.O.W. Skimming.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

It's omnisciently stated that the Tau use the warp to travel FTL. As locustgate says they skim the shallows of the warp rather than fully in the depths of it. It's safer but slower and lacking psykers the best they're going to get. 

As to the op i'm sticking with humanity. I refuse to help an alien race conquer my species and exist as a second class citizen. Besides 'Imperial Guard' is a broad umbrella ranging from ground pounder to super heavy tank crewman. Personally i'd like to be on the Munitorium's general staff. Failing that at least one of the more doctrinally advanced and well equipped regiments, or a tanker.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

I actually just found the article that states that. I will cede the point my friends  Though after seeing that, does that mean the Tau could conquer the Imperium. might take longer but you'd think they can outmaneuver humanity with such techniques.

It seems similar to fold space from Macross: Frontier, but I will not even try to explain why ahahah. You'll have to watch the series for that one.


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## Battman (Nov 2, 2012)

Personally I don't think either would be much fun with the horror of the imperium and the funky things tau to do people like the sterilization of races other than the tau race itself. But think tau overall treat their people better, so maybe would prefer being a tau auxiliary


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

emporershand89 said:


> I actually just found the article that states that. I will cede the point my friends  Though after seeing that, does that mean the Tau could conquer the Imperium. might take longer but you'd think they can outmaneuver humanity with such techniques.
> 
> It seems similar to fold space from Macross: Frontier, but I will not even try to explain why ahahah. You'll have to watch the series for that one.


No they can't outmaneuver humanity because travelling via the Warp is the fastest means of travel other than using the Webway which is used by the Necrons and Eldar. 

The Emperor tried utilizing the Webway but Magnus ruined his plans.

Overall, the Tau's technology pales in comparison to the Imperium. The Tau can outfit their troops in better armor and with better weapons but it's only because they do not:

1) have a gigantic empire
2) have to fight chaos cults, xenos, secessionists, mutants, daemons etc. on a daily basis which understandably leads to the need for cheap and easy to produce equipment for the trillions of soldiers who fight under the Aquila
3) simply encountering a daemon can taint or drive an entire Imperial Guard battalion insane whereas the Tau are utterly ignored by the denizens of the Warp which is a huge boon

Regardless of their burden, the Imperium's Space Marines have no equal and the ships of the Imperium can destroy entire planets in hours. 

The Tau are simply a growing nuisance to the Imperium and were almost going to get wiped out during the Damocles Crusade but thanks to the much greater/actual threat of the Tyranids, the Imperium abandoned their attempt to exterminate the Tau and left them alone.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> The Tau are simply a growing nuisance to the Imperium and were almost going to get wiped out during the Damocles Crusade but thanks to the much greater/actual threat of the Tyranids, the Imperium abandoned their attempt to exterminate the Tau and left them alone.


How so the Imperium kicked their asses UNTIL they reached the tau septs, they were fighting human secessionist, that just declared they were joining the tau. As soon as the Imperial forces hit the first actual tau sept it bogged down to a stalemate then the imperium withdrew to fight a hive fleet. But the IGs and SM couldn't out maneuver them any attempt to land a strike force behind the tau lines ended with them them getting blown from the sky, i.e. SM in a thunder hawk gets shot down by a broadside out for an evening stroll. And the Imperium wasn't fighting the full might of the tau in both situations, in the secessionists it was mostly primitive humans or a few minor worlds, the only tau presents were diplomats and body guards. In the tau sept it was mostly that sept, which was a relatively new one along with a few off planet reinforcements trickling in.

So basically the Imperium stalled on the first actual tau planet.

P.S. The whole neutering thing, I say it was Imperial propaganda, hell the narrator was an imperial, and then it was reported on only those that actively resisted.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Darkblade, did the Tau fight daemons yet? I rarely, if ever I think, have read any novels or Fluff mentioning them fighting the "magical" elements of Warhammer 40k.

OMG Battman, I'd rather die than be neutered


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> Darkblade, did the Tau fight daemons yet? I rarely, if ever I think, have read any novels or Fluff mentioning them fighting the "magical" elements of Warhammer 40k.
> 
> OMG Battman, I'd rather die than be neutered


Yes. Fire warrior Shas'la Kais fought and killed a Greater Demon.
All the Dawn of War games
Fire Caste,

the ambassador kills a minor demon, well is drone chair does.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

DOW is a PC game, hint on the word game locust. That's kind a cheat because you can create that scenario but facing a Chaos AI army 

Wow, Fire Warrior was PS2 right? That quite a while ago, but I don't remember who he fought  Still a game though, I was asking more as far as novels locust, books and such k:


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

locustgate said:


> How so the Imperium kicked their asses UNTIL they reached the tau septs, they were fighting human secessionist, that just declared they were joining the tau. As soon as the Imperial forces hit the first actual tau sept it bogged down to a stalemate then the imperium withdrew to fight a hive fleet. But the IGs and SM couldn't out maneuver them any attempt to land a strike force behind the tau lines ended with them them getting blown from the sky, i.e. SM in a thunder hawk gets shot down by a broadside out for an evening stroll. And the Imperium wasn't fighting the full might of the tau in both situations, in the secessionists it was mostly primitive humans or a few minor worlds, the only tau presents were diplomats and body guards. In the tau sept it was mostly that sept, which was a relatively new one along with a few off planet reinforcements trickling in.
> 
> So basically the Imperium stalled on the first actual tau planet.





Rems said:


> They would hardly need to throw every man and woman at the Tau. A large proportion of the Ultima Segmentum's military perhaps but nothing close to the Imperium whole military potential. The tau have what, less than 100 worlds? That's a fraction of the Imperium's military potential.
> 
> The force they did use in Damoncles wasn't that large. A small fleet, a few hundred marines and however many guard regiments. They didn't know the extent of the Tau's strength and underestimated them and paid for it. You can bet the next one will be a whole lot larger. As it was they reached a first sphere sept world before having to pull out.
> 
> ...





Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Didn't the Damocles Crusade grind to a halt prior to negotiations being cut short due to Tyranid enroachment?
> 
> To put things bluntly the Imperium cannot afford or invest the manpower, time and resources needed to completely crush the Tau Empire. Much more important (and devastating) conflicts are raging elsewhere which require such manpower, time and resources. If the Imperium mustered the manpower needed to crush the Tau, they would be overrun in other areas of conflict.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> DOW is a PC game, hint on the word game locust. That's kind a cheat because you can create that scenario but facing a Chaos AI army
> 
> Wow, Fire Warrior was PS2 right? That quite a while ago, but I don't remember who he fought  Still a game though, I was asking more as far as novels locust, books and such k:


And 40k is a tabletop GAME....notice the game. :grin:
Valid cannon may not like it but still. Also there are DoW books.

Fire Warrior is also a book, so double barrel there.



Malus Darkblade said:


> stuff


The aggressor withdrawing and my forces still stand......that's a win in my book.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

It's a win when they abandoned the fight and left because of an actual threat? Ok.

And when they decide to pick up where they left off? What then?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> It's a win when they abandoned the fight and left because of an actual threat? Ok.
> 
> And when they decide to pick up where they left off? What then?


Then it's another war. Let me say this do you really expect someone to good in a war against an unknown enemy they just encountered, this was the first war the tau had against humans, it was the first time they realized that there was an Imperium. And I'm leaving it at that.. I don't want to jack another thread.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

locustgate said:


> Then it's another war. Let me say this do you really expect someone to good in a war against an unknown enemy they just encountered, this was the first war the tau had against humans, it was the first time they realized that there was an Imperium. And I'm leaving it at that.. I don't want to jack another thread.


That works the other way round as well. The Damocles Crusade was the first time the Imperium engaged the Tau. They now know what their capable of and what would be required for a campaign to succeed.


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## Hydraulix (May 5, 2013)

While I love Tau...
I don't want to be sterile :no:


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Rems said:


> That works the other way round as well. The Damocles Crusade was the first time the Imperium engaged the Tau. They now know what their capable of and what would be required for a campaign to succeed.


They would if the tau tech and tactics were static. since then they have made the riptide suits and ion rifles.



Hydraulix said:


> While I love Tau...
> I don't want to be sterile :no:


Then don't join a resistance movement and lose.
What do you think the Imp would do.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

I don't believe the Riptide has faced a Drednaught or even a Space Marine. 

IIRC in the codex, it excelled at withstanding attacks from gun emplacements and making holes in fortresses but it made no mention of facing against humanity's elite.

Or perhaps I was being too literal with the text.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

locustgate said:


> They would if the tau tech and tactics were static. since then they have made the riptide suits and ion rifles.


The various military forces of the Imperium have proven quite capable at combating large walkers/monstrous creatures of which the riptide is simply a new variety of. The Imperium even has an equivalent construct in the form of Knight Titans. 

Ultimately though the Imperium has a strategic advantage. They have superior starships and the capability of exterminatus. As far as i know the Tau have nothing to match that. Worst comes to worst the Imperium simply decides the Tau are too much bother to conquer and stops trying to take planets the conventional way and just resorts to exterminatus. 

The Tau are a force certainly, even a local threat. But they're no threat to the Imperium as a whole and would be simply unable to resist should the Imperium decide to destroy them and allocate the appropriate resources. Fortunately for the Tau there are great concerns elsewhere and threats constantly popping up, demanding the Imperium's attention. The Tau Empire's relatively slow rate of expansion may be its saving grace.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Rems said:


> The various military forces of the Imperium have proven quite capable at combating large walkers/monstrous creatures of which the riptide is simply a new variety of. The Imperium even has an equivalent construct in the form of Knight Titans.
> 
> Ultimately though the Imperium has a strategic advantage. They have superior starships and the capability of exterminatus. As far as i know the Tau have nothing to match that. Worst comes to worst the Imperium simply decides the Tau are too much bother to conquer and stops trying to take planets the conventional way and just resorts to exterminatus.
> 
> The Tau are a force certainly, even a local threat. But they're no threat to the Imperium as a whole and would be simply unable to resist should the Imperium decide to destroy them and allocate the appropriate resources. Fortunately for the Tau there are great concerns elsewhere and threats constantly popping up, demanding the Imperium's attention. The Tau Empire's relatively slow rate of expansion may be its saving grace.


1: Are a much slower/less maneuverable than a Riptide, Patient Hunter and Mechanicum. Patient Hunter 3 take out an entire hive city worth of tanks and 1 takes out a Baneblade, vanilla or variant. Mech 3 Knights are taken out by one robot. 

2: The Imperium as numbers and left over weapons that only a few people know how to use, but not replicate. Sure the Imperium could devote more resources to fight the Tau, but then they will have to chose where they want to move it from, front-lines where they have the most experience but then that would weaken that line and then they would have to fight what ever horror comes from there. They could take it from one of the more peaceful areas but then what good would a bunch of green officers+recruits do.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I'm gonna say Imperium. 40k is a hellhole no matter where you are, so I might as well be among my own bros.


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## Ddraig Cymry (Dec 30, 2012)

locustgate said:


> I'm going with the tau...better gear and higher life expectancy, I also get to shoot a plasma weapon with out the change of losing my arm.


Ha! Good point! I choose to stay loyal, I'd feel more accepted or in greater unity if I were with fellow humans. As nice as the Tau are to the humans that join them, I would greatly prefer to have the unity provided by the regular Guardsmen.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

locustgate said:


> DoW books.


I feel that the Fire Warrior and DOW books were written after the fact. I'm currently looking it up but I feel that points invalid. It's like saying Gears of War has books, but they were all written after the first game was released, e.t.c. Invalid as far as I'm concerned



Rems said:


> Worst comes to worst the Imperium simply decides the Tau are too much bother to conquer and stops trying to take planets the conventional way and just resorts to exterminatus.


Or I feel they would incorporate them just as they did the Squats, Diemurg, and many other races. The Imperium of Man is not all racist humanitarians. Underneath all that redoric is something akin to Rome. Conquer/assimilate, then civilize.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> Or I feel they would incorporate them just as they did the Squats, Diemurg, and many other races. The Imperium of Man is not all racist humanitarians. Underneath all that redoric is something akin to Rome. Conquer/assimilate, then civilize.


Diemurg are part of the tau, the imperium only tolerates abhumans, ogryns, felids (new), rattlings, fish (Fire Caste) because they are descendents from humans, and then the vast majority views them as little more than barely tolerated mutants. The Imperium is hugely xenophobic and treats abhumans as little more than 3rd class citizens, servitors get treated better. While the tau they treat you like your one of them so long as you don't try to kill them and then they still eventually forgive you.

I.e. The brain worms originally fought the tau eventually the brain worms surrender and join the tau, the tau join them.

Diemurg are aliens that look like dwarf golems. Ummm about the whole Rome thing I think your thinking of the Tau... They show up give you two options Join or Die. Imperium, Xenos Die, Lost Humans Join or Die, Secessionist humans Die, abhumans...whatever the guy feels like. In the Imperium if you so much as a piece of xeno tech or if you so much looked at a xeno and didn't shoot him you get executed, of course this doesn't extend to the Inquisition. It's because the imperiums stance on xenos they have so many enemies and NO allies, except the space orangutans but then they are Inquisitorial slaves.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

locustgate said:


> Ummm about the whole Rome thing I think your thinking of the Tau... They show up give you two options Join or Die.


The Imperium employed Vespid mercenaries(The Last Chancer), and Rouge Daemons (Inquisitor Eisenhorn) to meet it's end. Additionally the Imperium actually owns a handful of Diemurg planets. the rest joined the Tau because they ended up in Tau space. Plus the Tau are lucrative traders. Imperium conquered/assimilated Squat League, Strongholds and all. they took Orgyn worlds. true they are human racists I give you that, but they have allowed aliens to live within there borders. they just don't publicize it(except on Lexicanium :laugh: ) Rome said join us if they were willing. Though I grant you that in the end the Romans generally raped, pillaged, and stole everything from there allies. Part of what brought on their downfall. :suicide:



locustgate said:


> The Imperium is hugely xenophobic and treats abhumans as little more than 3rd class citizens, servitors get treated better


And what did Rome do? they were extremely xenophobic against all "Non-Romans." It treated those it conquered as little more than 3rd class citizens; most being slaves, or plebeians. There damn servants got better attention, I.E servitors. 

By God man your answering your own question k:

Damn Greeks are more like the Tau. Enemies that surrendered to Greek-city states were welcomed into the Democracy. Including Anatolia city-states and Cyprus


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Either way you're likely to be fed to the meat grinder, but at least with the Tau they will treat you well before hand as they try to disguise their evil intent.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> The Imperium employed Vespid mercenaries(The Last Chancer), and Rouge Daemons (Inquisitor Eisenhorn) to meet it's end. Additionally the Imperium actually owns a handful of Diemurg planets. the rest joined the Tau because they ended up in Tau space. Plus the Tau are lucrative traders. Imperium conquered/assimilated Squat League, Strongholds and all. they took Orgyn worlds. true they are human racists I give you that, but they have allowed aliens to live within there borders. they just don't publicize it(except on Lexicanium :laugh: ) Rome said join us if they were willing. Though I grant you that in the end the Romans generally raped, pillaged, and stole everything from there allies. Part of what brought on their downfall. :suicide:


Which Last Chancers book, the only one I can think of is when they work with the tau to take out a general but that turned out to be a double cross? That's the inquisition and demons aren't really a race. Squats and Ogryns are abhumans, like I said they are only tolerated because they are descendants of humans and stableish. Demiurg do you mind giving me a source..the Demiurg are fully nomadic and are full fledged members of the Tau, they don't own any planets. The inquisition break the Imperiums own rules, and who's going to say anything about it. The Inquisition tends to punish anyone that hires xenos.

You're really thinking of the Imperium as kind of good guys, this is 40k there is no good.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

locustgate said:


> You're really thinking of the Imperium as kind of good guys, this is 40k there is no good.


Exactly my point man. I'm just showing how they are similar to Rome. Eventually they will end up in a similar fashion.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> Exactly my point man. I'm just showing how they are similar to Rome. Eventually they will end up in a similar fashion.


Er...ok, agreed they are going to fall there's no question about that...please give me some source.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Yes looking for it now, on the Diemurg I'm assuming. i got that off of Lexicanum; was stated in the Squat file and another one I'm hunting down :0


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> Yes looking for it now, on the Diemurg I'm assuming. i got that off of Lexicanum; was stated in the Squat file and another one I'm hunting down :0


Vespid too, the files on lex I find says the Demiurg are attempt to bring back squats, but they have no worlds.

I will agree that the Imperium is like Rome near the end but it only gives options to humans, if you are a xeno you will be given no options. The Emperor will rise up and start to dance to Thriller before any xenos are allowed to join.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

emporershand89 said:


> And what did Rome do? they were extremely xenophobic against all "Non-Romans."


Rome actually offered paths to citizenship and trade to any and all they encountered. While they may have viewed themselves and the Roman way of life as being superior to the 'barbarians' they were certainly not above allowing barbarians into their culture and their army. The auxiliary were non-roman in their entirety (and their children became Roman citizens) and many great leaders of germanic peoples rose to positions of power within the Roman army.

Conversely the Imperial policy on xenos is: Kill them all. No questions asked, no mercy given. Occasionally, and under unusual circumstances, individuals within the Imperium will act in a manner that does not reflect this policy by working alongside alien mercenaries or employing alien technology. This is a sign of pragmatism on the individuals part, not a sign of a benevolent foreign policy on the Imperium's. Such individuals are considered to be radical at the very least, if not outright renegades.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

hailene said:


> It's too open ended.
> 
> Would I like to be an Imperial Guardsman defending a civlized world? Where I mostly loaf around, drink a bit (not that I drink), swagger around the bars and have women swoon over my "heroics" on the battlefield?
> 
> ...


Easy, just pick between options on similar comfort levels


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Imperial.
> 
> I would rather side with my own race than an alien no matter the benefits out of pride and simply human nature.
> 
> ...


:victory:nice one mate


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

I would join the tau. Because they care. They will not throw you into the meat grinder so your general can move his bath tub a couple of inches! Tau will use you as bait, but before you can acually die, they ambush the enemy with a million and one plasma shots- and not die in the process!
And the imperiam probally won't exterminatas the tau, because they won't to keep worlds, they only exterminatas if the planet is designated tainted. Also, the tau do take planets if they have to- for instance when riptides first appeared- the tau took a heavily fortified fortress world in single swoop- and won. And a riptide survived a barrage of death strike missiles- so a bolter or lascannon should be no problem!
So tau, because I wont get throw into the meat grinder for only minor gains, and I get to fight with people that acually get things done, rather than drowning the enemy in bodies or artillery fire


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

MEQinc said:


> The auxiliary were non-roman in their entirety (and their children became Roman citizens) and many great leaders of Germanic peoples rose to positions of power within the Roman army


The auxiliary were used as cannon fodder. Nothing more than fill ins to deal with massive Germanic and Spaniard armies. As for there children I must ask from what source your citing this from. I'm pretty sure that I have never heard anything of the sort; so please tell me where you are getting that from. 

Rome was nothing like America, very different cultures. Only similarities in government and the peoples desire, which as history has demonstrated doesn't mean much.

Rome's policy was simple. Defeat your enemy, kill there men and take there women and lands as spoils. Occasionally the wise generals like Caesar and Marcus Aurelius' preferred to humiliate there opponents and allow them to fight for them. this was only due to the fact they needed bodies to fight there internal civil wars though. 



MEQinc said:


> Rome actually offered paths to citizenship and trade to any and all they encountered


I grant that Rome started to do this towards it's later years, but that was in response to a shrinking army and a reliance on foreign mercenaries to fight it's wars for them. They did really offer them citizens ship, what they gave them was a work visa. That's the honest truth.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

kiro the avenger! said:


> And the imperiam probally won't exterminatas the tau, because they won't to keep worlds, they only exterminatas if the planet is designated tainted.


The Imperium is playing to not lose, not to win. The difference there is that they aren't looking to take worlds, merely to not lose them. If the Tau ever advance to the point where wiping them out becomes a priority then the Imperium isn't going to lose any sleep over the Tau planets they glass.



> and I get to fight with people that acually get things done, rather than drowning the enemy in bodies or artillery fire


The Imperium gets things done. Quite efficiently too (from a resources standpoint at least). What they don't do is play softball like the Tau, and that's because they know better. Personally I'd rather side with the galaxy spanning empire with a centuries long track-record, then the up-jumped punks who aren't any better than thousands of nameless empires out there.



emporershand89 said:


> The auxiliary were used as cannon fodder. Nothing more than fill ins to deal with massive Germanic and Spaniard armies.


The auxiliary provided everything that wasn't heavy infantry. That includes cannon fodder light infantry but also elite units like cavalry and archers.



> As for there children I must ask from what source your citing this from. I'm pretty sure that I have never heard anything of the sort; so please tell me where you are getting that from.


tbh I got that from the Rome: Total War game but a quick search on wikipedia backs me up with: It appears that Roman citizens were also regularly recruited to the auxilia. Most likely, the majority of citizen recruits to auxiliary regiments were the sons of auxiliary veterans who were enfranchised on their fathers' discharge.[147]



> Rome was nothing like America, very different cultures.


No one said anything about America...



> Rome's policy was simple. Defeat your enemy, kill there men and take there women and lands as spoils.


It really wasn't that simple though. Rome was expansionist but they would use diplomacy as much as violence, especially in regions were violence proved to be more trouble then it was worth (Cesear's invasions of Britain and Germania for example, where the military withdrew after, at best, minor victory but the regions were still brought into compliance with Rome through backing vassal kings and other forms of diplomacy).


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

MEQinc said:


> Rome was expansionist but they would use diplomacy as much as violence


Not really, they used Diplomacy after the rise of the Dictators (Taken from "Summi Ducis" or Supreme Leader in the ancient Latin tongue). They expanded through warfare , crushing all who did not surrender coin, land, and women unto them. It was only when they ran out of Romans to fight wars, when they had been torn apart by civil strife, and when they had expanded too far that they used Diplomacy. This, MEQ, is the core of Rome. 

Diplomacy was for the Senate and the politicians. the Legion Commander simple killed those they were ordered to destroy.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

emporershand89 said:


> They expanded through warfare , crushing all who did not surrender coin, land, and women unto them.


If that were true than Rome would not have had any vassal states, as any region they crushed would be theirs and any region they didn't would have no other contact from them (according to you). Ancient Rome did have vassal states though, so clearly they weren't just about conquering and pillaging. 

Anyway, this is pretty much entirely off-topic so in a desire to not completely derail the thread I'll stop here.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I really can't say, though my gut instinct would be tau aux.

Though, to be perfectly honest, either way your boned, hence the picture above.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

It's difficult to speak of "Rome" as a state that was the same throughout its 11 or so centuries (21 if you count the eastern, Greek-speaking "Roman Empire").

Rome was, initially, very much so a place just for Romans. As it expanded, the Roman Republic began to accept Italian allies as client states, and used their troops to supplement its own Legions. The ratio of Roman to Italian cohorts within the Legions was roughly 1-1. Rome also used mercenaries from throughout the Mediterranean world to further supplement their armies - archers, slingers, light cavalry, etc. When they invaded foreign lands to side with one faction over another, they typically used native warriors as well. This was the Rome that fought against Carthage, influenced Iberia, put down Macedonian kings in Greek proper, and fought against other Successors in Asia Minor. This Rome scrupulously guarded Roman citizenship, refused it even to their Italian allies, and certainly did not offer an automatic path to it via the Legions.

Rome's transition from a republic that meddled throughout the Mediterranean to an outright empire (if not in name or title) out to conquer foreign lands saw it introduce "reforms" such as those that re-made its Legions. During this period, allowed non-landowners to join the Legions (something they had never been able to do before) and on a professional basis. As the need for manpower increased, the Auxilia of the past more or less went by the wayside and foreigners were allowed to join - with citizenship afforded to them for 20 years. Cynically, the child of such a "Roman" was NOT considered Roman. This was the Rome of Julius Ceasar, Augustus, etc.

Finally, there was the period of decline wherein the social and cultural fabric of Rome simply unravelled. Rome turned to foreign "barbarian" tribes to augment its forces or even replace them wholesale for certain battles. More often than not, the lands, titles, and citizenship they offered to those tribes were incentives for them to not invade Rome themselves. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it worked for only a while, and sometimes it didn't work at all.

I don't really know much about the Tau, but they sound like the Roman Republic of the 4th-2nd centuries B.C. They talk a good deal about their ideals and their destiny, but their "auxilia" will never really be Tau themselves. They will always be second-class citizens. Sounds to me that, if they were to start second-guessing their overlords, the "auxilia" wouldn't be dealt with fairly.


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