# Chaos Vs Necrons



## Eliphas (Jun 23, 2009)

As of the moment, Necrons are the enemy race that give me the most trouble. What is the best way that I, a user of Chaos armies, can do to end my losing streak against Necron armies?


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

1.Possessed Vindicator 
2.Possessed Vindicator 
3.Possessed Vindicator


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## Eliphas (Jun 23, 2009)

Huh...
Never thought of that before.
I'll try it!
Thanks.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Also, target one squad until it is destroyed. Especially rare units like Destroyers. If they don't have any other models of the same type standing, they cannot WBB any of them!


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Ignore the Monoliths. Shoot things with the 'Necron' rule.


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## Exitus Acta Probat (Apr 23, 2009)

T.K.E. is spot on with that...
also, though I am not a proponent of Lash in abundance, 'crons are an army that can suffer significantly from proper application of lash.
Combined with plasma cannon from units of obliterators (which I prefer over vindicators personally) and good assault units, it can all be very bad for phase out totals!


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Eliphas said:


> As of the moment, Necrons are the enemy race that give me the most trouble. What is the best way that I, a user of Chaos armies, can do to end my losing streak against Necron armies?


Bring a good list.(NOT fluffy)

A braindead monkey with a tournie chaos list can beat any necron list ever developed.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Defilers do well too, Battle cannon are just as good against regular 'Crons, and they're awesome against other armies too.
Remember, Power weapons kill them too.

If they have a Lord with a Resurrection Orb, KILL HIM FIRST, over everything else.
Your anti-cron weapons are useless if he's nearby.


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Really, really simple. Assault.

Did I hear I2? Do I see Beserkers? Did your Lord w/ Orb just get Sweeping Advance'd by my little, angry, red men?


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Sqwerlpunk said:


> Really, really simple. Assault.
> 
> Did I hear I2? Do I see Beserkers? Did your Lord w/ Orb just get Sweeping Advance'd by my little, angry, red men?


This does depend a lot on your enemy's list, really. I have beaten a tourney Zerker list that did a turn 2 assault. I won 6-0 on kill points. Lots of dead red men...

You might beat an new Necron player by forcing CC, but an experienced player will make you wish you had tried something else.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

darklove said:


> This does depend a lot on your enemy's list, really. I have beaten a tourney Zerker list that did a turn 2 assault. I won 6-0 on kill points. Lots of dead red men...
> 
> You might beat an new Necron player by forcing CC, but an experienced player will make you wish you had tried something else.


What did you use?
Flayed ones?
Pariahs? Love them.


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

TheKingElessar said:


> Ignore the Monoliths. Shoot things with the 'Necron' rule.


This is a very often used piece of advice which I both love and hate to see repeated. I love it because anyone foolish enough to totally ignore my Monolith(s), when I bring them, is an opponent handing me an easy victory. On the other hand I hate to see it because it's such piss poor advice.

Monolith's are dangerous on multiple fronts. The particle whip is a very good weapon against MEQ armies but even worse, the portal allows a redo for WBB rolls.

And for your general fund of knowledge, Monoliths are EXCELLENT LOS blockers. Good luck getting to a location to target units with the necron special rule, if you can't see them through 3 massive blockers.



Exitus Acta Probat said:


> T.K.E. is spot on with that...
> also, though I am not a proponent of Lash in abundance, 'crons are an army that can suffer significantly from proper application of lash.
> Combined with plasma cannon from units of obliterators (which I prefer over vindicators personally) and good assault units, it can all be very bad for phase out totals!


This can be very true. But you are depending a lot on your opponents inability to come up with an effective counter to Lash. Not something I'd be particularly sure about.

That said, Lash can work well against Necron armies, but you have exploit the advantage quickly and decisively or a Lith or VOD can eliminate the advantage.

That said, I also prefer Obliterators rather than Vindicators against Necrons since, by in large, they have a harder time with 2+ saves than they do against armor.



LordWaffles said:


> Bring a good list.(NOT fluffy)
> 
> A braindead monkey with a tournie chaos list can beat any necron list ever developed.


Then there must be a whole lot of Chaos players that don't have the tactical sense or brain power of your average brain-dead monkey. I've only lost 1 game to Chaos *EVER* and I've faced them innumerable times in both 4th and 5th, in and out of tournament.

What it comes down to is you need to look at how your enemy is playing their army and face off against your opponent, not his/her army. Darklove and I would play VERY different games, even if we were using the same list. 

Watch your opponent, figure out how he uses his army and beat him. If you want specifics, you'll have to give me specifics concerning how he plays


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Daneel2.0 said:


> Then there must be a whole lot of Chaos players that don't have the tactical sense or brain power of your average brain-dead monkey. I've only lost 1 game to Chaos *EVER* and I've faced them innumerable times in both 4th and 5th, in and out of tournament.


Than you've either:
Been cheating
Been playing HORRENDOUS chaos(Describe lists?)
Been amazing on the table
Been cheating

Necrons, regardless of the flavor are not up to snuff as of fifth edition. I've never considered them anything more than adorable little outdated skeletons, and phasing them out is so much easier than killing a monolith.

And to counter what you said, I am a good player. Your race hasn't won against mine in standard missions. Ever.

Plus you have to remember, while your monoliths are GREAT at taking out meq, it means you have less necrons, and when you have LESS necrons that I have to do in order to table you, life gets easier for me and plasma-cannon oblits, vindicators, and zerkers.

I just don't see how necrons win against chaos, chaos has every counter for all of your good units, and they mush up meqs any day of the week, hell, they excel at it. And they have the reach and movement of almost no one else, I'm tempted to say the only worse matchup for crons is orks just due to sheer numbers of "Eff you, I'm six points"


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

is this becoming one more "Mine is bigger than yours" topic?

evne in the 5th the Necrons can work if played right and Chaos isn't bad either... but please.... please... dare not tell me you are unbeatable.... 
"Their is always a bigger fish"



Eliphas said:


> As of the moment, Necrons are the enemy race that give me the most trouble. What is the best way that I, a user of Chaos armies, can do to end my losing streak against Necron armies?


my suggestion as Ork'n'Cron player:

S8 Weapons or DS1 that deny WBB-rolls (big Blast are ideal)
If there is an resurection Orb Lord.... kill him as fast as possible
strong and/or fast CC units will crush them Robots
Ignore the Mono... kill the Necrons for a phaseout

Have fun!


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> Than you've either:
> Been cheating
> Been playing HORRENDOUS chaos(Describe lists?)
> Been amazing on the table
> Been cheating


I needed a good laugh. Thanks for nominating yourself :laugh:



LordWaffles said:


> Necrons, regardless of the flavor are not up to snuff as of fifth edition. I've never considered them anything more than adorable little outdated skeletons, and phasing them out is so much easier than killing a monolith.


Necrons had many problems in 4th, and have more now in 5th. That doesn't make them uncompetitive. Every codex has strengths and weaknesses.



LordWaffles said:


> And to counter what you said, I am a good player. Your race hasn't won against mine in standard missions. Ever.


Don't really care. I wasn't bragging, just indicating that it can be done and that I have personal information supporting it.



LordWaffles said:


> Plus you have to remember, while your monoliths are GREAT at taking out meq, it means you have less necrons, and when you have LESS necrons that I have to do in order to table you, life gets easier for me and plasma-cannon oblits, vindicators, and zerkers.


Sure, it goes without saying. But people that point this out carefully ignore that they need to either get their units TO the Necrons or in a position to draw line of fire to them. And with even 1 monolith, I can make that a chore.



LordWaffles said:


> I just don't see how necrons win against chaos, chaos has every counter for all of your good units, and they mush up meqs any day of the week, hell, they excel at it. And they have the reach and movement of almost no one else, I'm tempted to say the only worse matchup for crons is orks just due to sheer numbers of "Eff you, I'm six points"


And that attitude is why one day you'll lose to someone like darklove. Underestimating an opponent is usually the first indicator of who is going to lose on the table. Not always, but usually. 



Sebi said:


> is this becoming one more "Mine is bigger than yours" topic?
> 
> evne in the 5th the Necrons can work if played right and Chaos isn't bad either... but please.... please... dare not tell me you are unbeatable....
> "Their is always a bigger fish"


No, size contests here. Just pointing out the same thing really. Any army can be beaten by any other army. It's almost always a matter of the person playing.


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## StormDrow (Jun 1, 2009)

Dear Lord Waffles I would have to agree that we all needed a good laugh. Thank you. As for all of your pathetic arguments that you have not been able to substaniate anything to back them up with, I would be inclined and able to say to you as you have to daneel the necron player that you always cheat, amazing at the table, or play against horendous players yourself because I mud stomp all Marine Variants especially Chaos. Now before you turn into anymore of a blowhard and spew more nonsense out of your mouth. I do not dare to say I am unbeatable. I have had some chaos and marine matches not go my way and such but I am easily 90% victory against them. I agree with Sebi that there are always bigger fish around the corner and find myself seeing that more and more until I understand the newer players I have not faced or learning the new dex's that come out. Now here is the real kicker for you Mister Waffles and this goes towards an absolute crap tard of a thread that you started on players or army biases that you have and felt compelled to share with the rest of us. I AM AN ELDAR PLAYER AND I THINK THAT ANY AND ALL CLOSE MINDED SIMPLETONS SUCH AS YOURSELF SHOULD ATTEMPT TO PLAY AS GOOD AS YOU CAN ENJOY YOUR OWN LITTLE WORLD AND NOT RUIN OURS WITH UTTER NONSENSE THAT YOU FEEL WE ALL ACTUALLY WANT TO HEAR.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Daneel2.0 said:


> I needed a good laugh. Thanks for nominating yourself :laugh:


I'll assume you mean this in the most lighthearted fashion possible. And anytime, it's why I post.




Daneel2.0 said:


> Necrons had many problems in 4th, and have more now in 5th. That doesn't make them uncompetitive. Every codex has strengths and weaknesses.


By uncompetitive, I mean it takes extremely high amounts of skill and luck to perform at the same level as a skill-less, luckless competitor of someone playing a more point-effective list from a different army book. Also the fact that 'crons haven't done much better than tau lately in the GTs.




Daneel2.0 said:


> Sure, it goes without saying. But people that point this out carefully ignore that they need to either get their units TO the Necrons or in a position to draw line of fire to them. And with even 1 monolith, I can make that a chore.


I just don't see how a chaos player would have a hard time phasing out necrons, almost every commonly-held weapon of chaotic warfare seems to be built specifically for effing with a necrons day. The ap2 pieplate, the deep striking blits, lashing princes(Kissing an entire squad goodbye potentially on turn one)




Daneel2.0 said:


> And that attitude is why one day you'll lose to someone like darklove. Underestimating an opponent is usually the first indicator of who is going to lose on the table. Not always, but usually.


It's nothing like underestimating, I simply know which armies perform better than others. Chaos, orks, and biking eldar perform better than necron anything.
It has nothing to do with attitude, it's just that your army needs an update badly to be any kind of challenge for a good player. To fool yourself into thinking everyone is balanced is ridiculous at best.




StormDrow said:


> I AM AN ELDAR PLAYER


Funny, I always thought eldar knew how to structure a sentence. -rep for trolling.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

OK :shok:
Back to the matter at hand
assuming that Eliphas is not as good as Lord Waffles and does not have the supreme skill in battle basically can we leave the war of words.

In my opinion, the king Elessar is correct. Dont shoot the monoliths. You need 6's to penetrate so its absolutely pointless unless u have melta weapons.
You need to kill the destroyers and the tomb spyders
Tomb spyders cos they help him with his we will be back rolls and destroyers cos they are annoying

You need to try and deny them any we will be back rolls and to do that you need to spread them out and make gaps in their lines.
To do that you need to wipe out one full squad
Assuming the destroyers and spyders are dead and he has 4 units spread in a line shoot the centre one and destroy it completely
He will teleport it back through the monolith. This leaves two units exposed.
the one he just teleported and the flanking unit

Remember every turn he teleports on back through the monolith is a turn he cant shoot you which is fabulous. Also he is going to loose men each time.

Every time you obliterate a squad he will loose half of his warriors. You need Ap3 weaponry and power weapons. I suggest a defiler a vindicator some oblits and a unit of thousand sons would be exceedingly useful.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

A good Necron player will not take a Tomb Spyder, AFAIK. Also, monoliths are immune to Melta anyway - Las and Demolisher are the best bets, well, and CC.

As you say though, the trick is to nuke the Lord, then to pie each squad in turn, forcing the Phase Out ASAP. While Daneel2.0 is correct, Monos are good to block LOS with, this prevents Warriors firing at you as well, and this is when you blast the crap out of those floating pyramids - when there are no other viable targets.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

well the best necron player I know takes two so i just went from my experience of necrons
TKE has got it spot on
Cant argue with that


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I think this thread has run dry.

Advice from the Chaos players: 'ignore Monoliths and shoot high strength guns at everything else until you have a chance to get into assault range, and from here on the game is yours as you force Phase Out.'

Advice from the Necron players: 'yea, like he said, do that stuff... please!'


Tbh, there is no single tactic that will beat Necrons. You can improve your chances with good strategy though.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

darklove said:


> I think this thread has run dry.
> 
> Advice from the Chaos players: 'ignore Monoliths and shoot high strength guns at everything else until you have a chance to get into assault range, and from here on the game is yours as you force Phase Out.'
> 
> ...


It varies from army to army.
If he has only 1 Monolith, then taking it out could seal the game for you, as rerolling those tests is SO useful.
If he has 3, then using flank maneuvers to get at his (undoubtedly low) numbers of Warriors will threaten to phase him out. But shooting the Monoliths will accomplish little, as even if you kill 1, he's got two more.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Lord Waffles and Stormdrow, lay off the attitude and aggressive posting. We would like Heresy Online to remain the close knit community that we have worked hard for it to become. Consider yourselves warned.


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## Eliphas (Jun 23, 2009)

I have to say, this thread has taken quite the interesting turn away from the help that I orignially intended it to be, not that that was a bad thing, as it has been most amusing to watch.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I have to say I was surprised when this thread appeared and thought it would be the other way around. Necrons are a bit of a weird army in my opinion, but I would be kind of amazed to see them beat a chaos army. They suffered so badly from 5th, with weakened glancing hits and LD modifiers in cc.

That said, the major issue tends to be the rules for WBB. Once you understand those, you know how to beat necrons.

Also, let's stop the stuff about "I've won using beaten this against that". Whenever I see that I always think, perhaps unfairly, that here's a person who just shows up at GWs and looks for kids to beat at 40k. That, or you've played one game against the army 3 years ago but you mostly just write about the game. There's no way of proving this one way or the other, so forget it. This is a place where useful advice you can give is far more valuable than any claims you can make.

For my part I did once lose a game against necrons, using my Tau, at the last gt heat in 3rd edition. I still remember it because it was a damn irritating game, where just nothing would go right. He had night bringer, who I killed, but that allowed too much of his other stuff to live. It was frustrating because I'd just retired my ranger force, who would have virtually phased the necrons out before the game started.

Honestly I'm not sure if it would be worth even deploying necrons against a top tier chaos, ork, eldar or daemon army.


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