# Skaven Magic In Close Combat



## sladeamx (Feb 7, 2011)

1. What Skaven majic can i use in close combat? 

2. Also can i use the dreaded 13 in close combat? I have seen stuff on internet supporting its use

If so and Grey Seer is in close combat can i use it on other units or only units in close combat with my grey seer?

It seems like my poorly armored magic users are only used until there unit is in close combat and then not much help.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

sladeamx said:


> 1. What Skaven majic can i use in close combat?
> 
> 2. Also can i use the dreaded 13 in close combat? I have seen stuff on internet supporting its use
> 
> ...


If it specifically says you can use them in close-combat, you can. If it does not say you can, you can't. Simple as that.


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## Herald of Huanchi (Feb 1, 2009)

Is there any skaven magic that can be used on a unit in combat with slaves or is it just shooting that can target units in combat with slaves?

My friend plays skaven and we don't know.


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## sladeamx (Feb 7, 2011)

*The rules are not clear enough*

One answer I recieved is its as simple as what it states in the handbook. My response to that is red tape wins games either by sneakily cleverly using rules or uneducated or cheating opponents. Thats why I want to clarify the close combat delima im haveing I want to bend rules and not actually cheat unlike My Skaven Commander Genral Lee Cheeze who states " If they dont catch it you win if they call you out on the rule blame the people who first explained the rules to you" Below is my research and my questions in more detailed forms. Hopefully someone can clarify this stuff for me. Im new but I did atleast try to do my homework on the subject. 
:shok:
Skaven Magic page 78 Skaven Codex has some spell that says can be cast on characters in close combat but can the caster cast this stuff on people if he is in close combat. I assume if he is hiding in the back using (Verminous Valor) no, but my crazy grey Seer has been fighting up front.
These spells have the can cast on units in close combat 
1. Skitterleap
2. Death Frenzy
3. Cloud of Corruption
4. Wither
5. Plague
These spells say specifically that wizard CAN use if he is personally in close combat:
1. Skitterleap
2. Pestilent Breath
3. Vermintide
4. Plague
Hex Spells weaken enemies and can be cast on units in close combat but can they be cast while casters in close combat? These are what I believe are hexes with Skaven Magic. no line of site needed
1. Wither 
Augments boost allies and can be cast on close combat friendly’s no line of sight needed
1. Death Frenzy
2. Bless With Filth
Howling Warpgale is an area effect so I think it can be used in magic phase even if wizard is in close combat.
Magic Missile: Should I assume that if Wizard needs line of sight the spell is like a magic missile and cannot be used on units in close combat or by a wizard in close combat? This unfortunately means he cannot cast Dreaded Thirteen if he is in close combat. This would classify Cracks Call as magic missile also.
Note: Warp Lightning states it is a magic missile and cannot be cast from a wizard in or at a unit in close combat.
Direct Damage Spells: I assume that these following spells are direct damage and cannot be used on close combat enemies or if they touch friendly’s they use templates but it doesn’t say the caster must not be in close combat 
1. Scorch: it uses a templates it does not say needs line of site but I think we should assume it must be in forward arch of wizard.


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## stevenhassell (Aug 5, 2009)

well most of the time (if your smart) your grey seer is on a bell wich gives hime 360 even in combat... alowing him to cast direct damage spells out of the combat. the mrb states that you can cast out of hand to hand but not into... so as long as you meet all the requiermnt of the spell (LOS mostly). its pretty clearly explained in the mrb how it all works... the only confusing thing i can think you haveing is if you are on a bell wich removes the "i cant see cause theres this guy with a great sword in front of me" situation..lol


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## Durzod (Nov 24, 2009)

It may seem that those spells are hexes and augments, but the BARB states that spells in army books (unless specifically typed) have no classification (and thus no limiters) and will state any restrictions in the spell description. Other than that they all follow the basic 4 rules.


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## Flem (Feb 11, 2011)

The main problem with Skaven magic is that they lack spell types. they only have magic missiles, other spells aren't classed as augment,hex , vortex or direct damage.

As described in the basic rulebook, a wizard cannot target spells at units engaged in close combat unless stated otherwise.But there actually are alot of spells a skaven casn cast in combat:
-Pestilent Breath(plague lore):spell says it can be cast in close combat
-Skitterleap(ruin lore): the spell says it can be cast in close combat
-Bless with filth(plague lore):spell says it can be cast on a unit already in combat
-Wither(plague lore):spell says it can be cast on a unitin Close combat
-Warpgale(ruin lore):it doesn't target a unit, so can be cast even while in close combat
-Vermintide(plague lore):spell says it can be cast while in combat
-Death Frenzy(ruin lore):spell says it can be cast in close combat
-Cloud of corruption(plague lore):it doesn't target a unit so can be cast, plus the spell says even units in close combat suffer from it's effect
-Plague(plague lore):the spell says it can be cast in close combat
-Crack's call(ruin lore):the spell does't target a unit or model, so can be cast in Close combat
==>So the entire plague lore can be used in Close Combatk:


To clarify the slave rule, you can cast spells against units in combat with slaves. Magic missiles and direct damage spells should be randomised as described in the expandable rule. Template hits how ever (Scorch) just hit what ever is underneath the template. For the threaded thirteenth spell i'm not sure. In my area it's a house rule that for example on your 4D6 you roll 12, you need to randomize those 12 dice between slaves and opponent.

@Stevenhassell: As a skaven player i can honestly say i only fielded the screaming bell twice. Both in a friendly game of 3000 points. When playing in a tournament i never field a bell, the 200 points you safe from fielding one(actually it's only 155 if you want to give the seer a 4+ward) can buy you alot of extra bodies or extra funky toys like weapon teams, warmachines or other stuff.

Hope this was usefull.

Flem,


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

stevenhassell said:


> well most of the time (if your smart) your grey seer is on a bell wich gives hime 360 even in combat... alowing him to cast direct damage spells out of the combat. the mrb states that you can cast out of hand to hand but not into... so as long as you meet all the requiermnt of the spell (LOS mostly). its pretty clearly explained in the mrb how it all works... the only confusing thing i can think you haveing is if you are on a bell wich removes the "i cant see cause theres this guy with a great sword in front of me" situation..lol


Since when do bells give 360 degree LoS? Just because he's higher? regardless of size, the unit he's in (and therefore by extension, the bell, or furnace I guess) still has facings, and hence can only see things in the front arc. Hence if you require LoS, your target better be in your front arc... unless bells have a special rule I'm unaware of?


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## Flem (Feb 11, 2011)

coke123 said:


> Since when do bells give 360 degree LoS? Just because he's higher? regardless of size, the unit he's in (and therefore by extension, the bell, or furnace I guess) still has facings, and hence can only see things in the front arc. Hence if you require LoS, your target better be in your front arc... unless bells have a special rule I'm unaware of?


The screaming bell rule of above the masses state that the seer can cast spells in a360 degree arc. Measuring the spell range from any point of the screaming bell base.

Flem,


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## sladeamx (Feb 7, 2011)

Thanks for the help. We are playing at a 1500 point restriction witha 25% rares and lords rule with a munimum 25% core so im unable to use my bell yet. It states that a Grey Seer can jump up to top of the bell to hide from enemies attacking it. Once I can use my bell I assume he can hide up thier and cast magic only when confronted with close combat..


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## Flem (Feb 11, 2011)

sladeamx said:


> Thanks for the help. We are playing at a 1500 point restriction witha 25% rares and lords rule with a munimum 25% core so im unable to use my bell yet. It states that a Grey Seer can jump up to top of the bell to hide from enemies attacking it. Once I can use my bell I assume he can hide up thier and cast magic only when confronted with close combat..


He only climbes higher upon the bell when refusing a Challenge. In combat he can be the target of attacks as normal.

Flem,


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