# Carcharodon Astra Origins?



## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

I've come across some really interesting information regarding some outcasts from the Raven Guard who were seemingly expelled by Corax. They were sent to Nomad Predation fleets to the outer dark.

Considering the info we have on the Carcharodon Astra 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Carcharodon_Astra#.U3UqhZ7-xqA

They were in existence by M32
They were given a sacred duty to travel the empty spaces beyond the Imperium's borders, seemingly forever, to seek out and destroy the enemies of Mankind
They have a reputation for ruthlessness and brutality
Their armour is a very similar colour as XIX Legion prior to Corax's return (see the attached pic)
Their commander Tyberos the Red Wake displays all the coloring of a Raven Guard "his face, when revealed, was a corpse-white nightmare with half the bones of the face exposed in a bloodless grimace, while his eyes were a soulless, depthless black. "

All this corresponds very closely to the expelled Raven Guard and I wonder if this is why they don't claim to be Raven Guard descendants as they felt expelled from the Legion but were still loyal to the Emperor and kept doing their duty in the outer dark even though their Legion and probably the Imperium had forgotten about them.

Any thoughts?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

The Raven Guard have always been the presumed Space Sharks primogenitors, for a good few years at least.

However, all of the above are circumstantial similarities, but no "proof" as it were.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Also interesting is the _Nicor_, battlebarge of the Space Sharks is mentioned in Forgeworld Extermination as one of the uniquely powerful capital ships of the nascent Imperium.


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

Rems said:


> Also interesting is the _Nicor_, battlebarge of the Space Sharks is mentioned in Forgeworld Extermination as one of the uniquely powerful capital ships of the nascent Imperium.


Thanks, I didn't notice that. I guess that also points to the CA being one of the Nomad Predation fleets of the RG. It also indicates that the CA may have been the descendants of the fleet belonging to Arkhas Fal as who better to have a uniquely powerful capital ship than the former Legion commanding officer.

I realise this is all "ifs and maybe" but it's nice to have more evidence to support it and also nice to have an explanation why the CA don't themselves claim any links to the RG.

It also throws up the questions of why Corax didn't recall the Nomad predation fleets after Istvaan V when the RG were in desperate need of additional warriors. Maybe he didn't have any way of contacting them.

This also offers the RG another potential source of uncorrupted geneseed as again, like the other RG descendants, there is no mention of their geneseed being corrupted, unlike the RG themselves.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Rems said:


> is the Nicor, battlebarge of the Space Sharks is mentioned in Forgeworld Extermination as one of the uniquely powerful capital ships of the nascent Imperium.


Perhaps it is a relic of the Expeditionary Fleet days when might vessels such as theese played Escort duty for the colonists and their ships. Perhaps a relic of the Horus Heresy? In any case their apparently arrival seems out-o-wack with traditional 40k Fluff; and I'm wondering if anyone knows who is the writers responsible for bringing these mysterious fellows to life?


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I almost thought they might be descended from loyalist World Eaters. The Carcharodons are so different from the RG in their methods


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## revan4559 (Aug 9, 2010)

MontytheMighty said:


> I almost thought they might be descended from loyalist World Eaters. The Carcharodons are so different from the RG in their methods


The affects the geneseed has on their bodies makes them pale white and pure black eyes, that isnt a World Eater trait, that belongs to BOTH the Raven Guard and: Night Lords. Possible given their gene-seed and prefered tactics they have Night Lord geneseed instead.


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## Chaplain-Grimaldus (Aug 4, 2013)

I'd have said night lords myself also.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Unless the Night Lords commandeered the _Nicor_ at Isstvan V and, subsequently, a loyalist element of theirs secretly rejoined the Imperium, the A.C. are most likely Raven Guard successors.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

In Extermination it states it's possible Corax presumed the Nomad Predation fleets to now be a separate body in there own right which could of been the reason for why he didn't recall them. 

Personally I believe they were the fleet commanded by the last Raven Guard Commander Arkhas Fal who Corax sent away because he disliked the personality of the Raven Guard he found upon him taking command of the legion, one that acted like the tyrants he overthrew on Deliverance.

Also as to their aggressiveness, it's stated that the Jovian campaign as well as the early unification wars against the Tyrant of Ursh had a deep psychological impact on the legion, it created an "illness" called Ash Blindness or the Sable Brand which basically turned them into berzerkers for a short period of time, the outcome of it would cause the entire eye to turn black but they would revert back to their normal selves, so it wasn't as strong as the black rage and not as over the top as the butchers nails.


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> In Extermination it states it's possible Corax persumed the Nomad Predation fleets to now be a separate body in there own right which could of been the reason for why he didn't recall them.
> 
> Personally I believe they were the fleet commanded by the last Raven Guard Commander Arkhas Fal who Corax sent away because he disliked the personality of the Raven Guard he found upon him taking command of the legion, one that acted like the tyrants he overthrew on Deliverance.
> 
> Also as to their aggressiveness, it's stated that the Jovian campaign as well as the early unification wars against the Tyrant of Ursh had a deep psychological impact on the legion, it created an "illness" called Ash Blindness or Sable Brand which basically turned them into berzerkers for a short period of time, the outcome of it would cause the entire eye to turn black but they would revert back to their normal selves, so it wasn't as strong as the black rage and not as over the top as the butchers nails.


My.reasoning.exactly!!!!


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