# The Perpetual Question



## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

I just finished reading Know No Fear, an awesome book in my opinion. I figured they'd give the Battle of Calth at least two books by itself since it appeared to be extremely important.

Either way there is a question which is gnawing at me and I'd like an answer if possible. What, exactly, are the Perpetuals? I know of John Grammaticus and Oll from Legion and Know No Fear but what are they? I've seen some hints that show that Grammaticus was given his seeming immortality by Xenos. Oll, however, clearly references World War One at Verdun and John says he's an actual perpetual. 

To my understanding there are two schools of thougth that this could come from. The Sensei, which I believe was abandoned years ago, whereby the Emperor had children who were gifted with his immortality and a fraction of his abilities OR they could possibly be "left-overs" so to speak when all the shamans, spiritualists, seers reincarnated as the Emperor, some simply formed into weaker beings of the same template.

Or have I missed some critical piece of wording in one of the books that explains this?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

ollanius persson, oll or old person is clearly referenced to be around 8000bc iirc. I however have nothing more worthwile to add.


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## Xisor (Oct 1, 2011)

Vaz: that's not so clear, actually, in the book. There's a '22,000' figure given when talking about the map & his hand-writing, but that the original from which it was copied was twice that again - ambiguous as to whether the handwriting of the original was Oll's, or he just made the copy.

But otherwise: BlackGuard, we've come (albeit more succinctly than I'd ever manage) to pretty much identical conclusions. Could be either-or, or a variation again. In either case, it seems pretty clear to be at best a reference to, at worst a reworking of the 'Sensei/Illuminati' tale of old.

It's not especially surprising, the Emperor's nature hasn't been mentioned or significant in a long time, but his fate in the Heresy really is rather important when it comes to 'who is he?'. Having the Perpetuals be a link back to the shamans in one form or another is pretty significant and cool; I look forward to seeing where it goes.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Resurrecting an old thread from recent revelations on Anval Thawn.

I like the thought that the Perpetuals might be some of the shamans from the Emperor's origin story, who didn't give their spirits/souls to become the Emperor and step outside the cycle of reincarnation. On the other hand, John Grammaticus wasn't born and experienced his first death until the War of Unification, so the Perpetuals seem to be born occassionally. Since Anval Thawn is believed to be the last Perpetual by the Eldar, who knows what the heck that's supposed to mean? If they can be reincarnated, or have their bodies reknit from wounds after death, then perhaps the Golden Throne really is keeping the Emperor from reincarnating?


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

From all the times I've read about Perpetuals they are either actual inherent perpetuals, as in it's a natural thing for them to come back to life or in others like John Grammaticus an outside force brings them back to life.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> From all the times I've read about Perpetuals they are either actual inherent perpetuals, as in it's a natural thing for them to come back to life or in others like John Grammaticus an outside force brings them back to life.


I guess Cyrene also has to be considered. She was resurrected by Erebus, and is now considered to be a perpetual by numerous people. So is a perpetual someone that, by whatever means, has returned (or is able to return) from death?


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Hmm well, part of me is saying a true perpetual is someone who has returned more than once from death however in the 40k universe where coming back from the dead is not at all the norm I'd say it can be narrowed down to simply someone who has returned from death at least once. 

The definition of perpetual is "never ending" so if you keep coming back to life then that would be fine, have we seen Cyrene return to life after already dying and being brought back by Erebus tho?

I'd say there's two categories:

Actual Perpetuals - Oll Persson, Anval Thawn, Vulkan*
Artificial Perpetuals - Cyrene, John Grammaticus, perhaps Damon Prytanis.

*Vulkan was the product of the Emperor's so it could be argued he was an exceptional Perpetual since he didn't have it inherently but it was bread into him via the Emperor, however as a single individual though he doesn't appear to need someone reviving for it occur.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

In Know No Fear, Grammaticus has a conversation with Persson in which he brings up the point that you could count the number of Perpetuals on two sets of hands and have fingers to spare. Admittedly this was 30k, but it makes me think that Perpetuals, proper noun, are a psychic phenomenon like Blanks rather than being a general term for anyone who has been/can be resurrected.

Midnight


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> In Know No Fear, Grammaticus has a conversation with Persson in which he brings up the point that you could count the number of Perpetuals on two sets of hands and have fingers to spare. Admittedly this was 30k, but it makes me think that Perpetuals, proper noun, are a psychic phenomenon like Blanks rather than being a general term for anyone who has been/can be resurrected.
> 
> Midnight


But still, can perpetuals be 'artificially' created? In the sense that (as far as we know) John Grammaticus was being revived by the Cabal each time, not via his own inherent self.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

That's why I was thinking there's two categories, actual perpetuals and artificial perpetuals, I just used poor terms originally I think


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