# Space marines confirmed next



## bitsandkits

well its definitely the boys in blue next, several items of the space marine catalog also no longer available, including assault squad and ultramarine shoulder pads... 

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/blog/blog.jsp?_requestid=7291170


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## Old Man78

Wont get excited until i actually see it, was not really impressed with the last edition,


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## MidnightSun

Excitement!


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## Loli

Couldn't care less, I doubt we will get much new to really justify a new release other than its Space Marines so must have a book every edition. 

My Iron Hands will stick firmly in the Realm of 30k.


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## Haskanael

considering I'm toutching up my partners Ultramarines soon, this might be interesting


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## MidnightSun

Please do not touch up the proud warriors of the XIII Legion.

They do not appreciate such behaviour.


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## Tawa

Haskanael said:


> considering I'm toutching up my partners Ultramarines soon, this might be interesting


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## ntaw

I can't watch the video because: fuck computers.

Venting aside, I'm actually saddened that the Codex lifespan is shortening this much. Makes me feel less secure in my hobby since GW has shown to be less than interested in keeping the same units powerful from book to book in order to boost sales of whatever new thing they want to make money on. Or even worse they aren't releasing any new units and this is just new rules, which sets an even more worrisome precedent for Codex turnover.

Does anyone else not want new Codices within 2 years of each other?


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## AwesomusPrime

ntaw said:


> I can't watch the video because: fuck computers.
> 
> Venting aside, I'm actually saddened that the Codex lifespan is shortening this much. Makes me feel less secure in my hobby since GW has shown to be less than interested in keeping the same units powerful from book to book in order to boost sales of whatever new thing they want to make money on. Or even worse they aren't releasing any new units and this is just new rules, which sets an even more worrisome precedent for Codex turnover.
> 
> Does anyone else not want new Codices within 2 years of each other?


I'd feel better about it if they weren't hardcover. I like the quality of HC, but the 2 year turn around kinda blows given the new, higher price.


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## Khorne's Fist

I wonder how they'll top centurions this time around.


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## Asamodai

Well I'm excited, if not for the models (though news assault marines are appealing) then to see what kind of formations we're going to get.


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## Bindi Baji

Tawa said:


>


my thoughts exactly



Khorne's Fist said:


> I wonder how they'll top centurions


er, i'm not sure but it sounds painful




Asamodai said:


> Well I'm excited


Think I may have come to the wrong forum :wink:


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## Einherjar667

I think this short turn around time is meerly to get all the codexes up to the same level, as in, including formations and such. They're just doing it in a weird order, it should be oldest-codexes first. But alas, I'm excited.


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## OIIIIIIO

How soon before they update the bland codex of the BA again? I am going to get the SM codex in hopes that it is better than the BA one.


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## ntaw

OIIIIIIO said:


> How soon before they update the bland codex of the BA again?


I have been ruining a marine meta with my Blood Angels at 1750 recently. Bland my nuts.


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## tu_shan82

ntaw said:


> I have been ruining a marine meta with my Blood Angels at 1750 recently. Bland my nuts.


only thing I dont like about ba codex is lemartes and command squad take up foc slots and limitted AA, storm talon would have been good


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## Haskanael

Tawa said:


>


I should have expected these jokes realy :laugh:


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## bitsandkits

Photos are popping up,definately getting a ultramarines upgrade sprue in plastic,roman heads,molded shoulder pads etc.


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## Kreuger

Khorne's Fist said:


> I wonder how they'll top centurions this time around.


Hmm, maybe this time they'll stuff a guardsman into a marine into a terminator. 

Or maybe they'll shove a terminator into a dreadnought into an imperial knight! Or maybe strap it baby carrier to the chest of an imperial knight . . . 

We'll have to wait and see!


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## venomlust




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## Matcap

Well after expecting something along the lines of the old BT sprue...colour me very unimpressed... And those assault marines look very static? Also new helmets on them?


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## bitsandkits

looking great so far, the dark angel upgrade sprue is a bit of a shock , but a welcome one, seems the rumours could be indeed true about this been a big release if we are gettign quite a few of these new upgrade sprues plus recut standard kits and quite likely some vehicles too.


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## tu_shan82

NERDGASM!!! Would say that either the existing DA or this one will be direct only, funily enough the old SW sprue became direct only when the new SW kit came out. Ill be stocking up on the existing DA and old SW sprues plus as many dev squads as I can


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## tu_shan82

just in case. Sorry for double post, on phone.


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## tu_shan82

Also the pic is a little grainy is that a plasma or a grav pistol on the far left ass marine? Im also thinking that double chainsword has special rules like +1S or AP4 or something.


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## bitsandkits

tu_shan82 said:


> Also the pic is a little grainy is that a plasma or a grav pistol on the far left ass marine? Im also thinking that double chainsword has special rules like +1S or AP4 or something.


im thinking its grav too, i expect they will add a dash of new weapons to any new old kit to aid with selling it to people who already have assault marines out of the ears. 

i must be tired today, just realized the implications of this release... gonna have to mess about with my site in a big way as the loss of the previous tactical and now the assault squad means many lines are going to drop off and be replaced making my current system redundant (alot of marine parts were duplicated across the various sprues so i combined them all to save space when we started this caper)


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## Bindi Baji

I can see some real potential in the new kits, the assault squad looks promising


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## tu_shan82

Ill definitly be placing several large orders when I sort my paypal account out, as I havent used it in 2 years. Also professinal opinion request bits, would you use immolator or baal pred heavy flamers for a LR Ares?


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## bitsandkits

Baal predator makes the most sense, it looks like it belongs on a space marine vehicle, but you could also consider the new flamer from the Kastelan Robot sprue.
its gonna be far more common and its very stripped back so less adjustment requied for a conversion
http://www.bitsandkits.co.uk/kastelan-robot-flamer-p-12419.html

plus it looks awesome


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## venomlust

I'm loving that DA champ. That winged helm has always been a fave of mine as far as astartes go. The sword is cool too, but I don't so much care for the text. Ultramarines kit is decent, want to see BA. Those assault marines aren't impressing me other than the two handed chainsword.


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## ntaw

Very interested in any White Scar stuff. Glad I haven't painted or even primed my bike Captain, it will be easy to modify and add elements to him if they end up looking better than what I've come up with. With BA needing Tactical squads I'm no longer sure that my Imperial Fist army will ever happen, but bikes just gotta be white (despite their speed being an easy include in a fluffy BA list).

EDIT: just noticing it looks like they've gotten rid of any aquilas on the chest of the assault marines under the jump pack straps. That'll make painting subtly easier.


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## Einherjar667

The DA upgrade sprue looks great! brings it in line with the Deathwing Termies, which is still, in my opinion, one of the best kits ever.


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## tu_shan82

Im a sad panda, just checked GW's site and the old SW sprue is no more  Looking forward to new DA sprue, but I reckon the new SW ones gonna be full of Ragnar Blackmane shoulder pads Ill never use  GW paved paradise and put up a parking lot


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## Khorne's Fist

tu_shan82 said:


> I reckon the new SW ones gonna be full of Ragnar Blackmane shoulder pads Ill never use


I reckon there won't be a SW sprue, considering there's a whole troop box with a shit-ton of bits already out for them. The IF, UM, WS, DAs, they don't have that same equivalent, thus the upgrade sprues.


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## Haskanael

tu_shan82 said:


> Im a sad panda, just checked GW's site and the old SW sprue is no more  Looking forward to new DA sprue, but I reckon the new SW ones gonna be full of Ragnar Blackmane shoulder pads Ill never use  GW paved paradise and put up a parking lot


old SW sprue?
the SW got a box to make grey hunters/blood claws/wolf guard with don't see why they would need an upgrade sprue.


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## tu_shan82

Yeah, frow before the GH/BC/WG box. GW had it available in their bits section. Realy liked it as it added variety, had a couple of power weapons, alternate wolf cloak, some breast plates and heads, even a cool back pack with wolf heads where the vents go.


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## jonsgot

And it had a melta gun, maybe this one will come with a Flamer and Melta gun?


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## Tawa

tu_shan82 said:


> Yeah, frow before the GH/BC/WG box. GW had it available in their bits section. Realy liked it as it added variety, had a couple of power weapons, alternate wolf cloak, some breast plates and heads, even a cool back pack with wolf heads where the vents go.


Yup, was nice to have those. Then the new gear came out but you could still get that "old" frame if you wanted to blend old into new.


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## bitsandkits

To be fair the sprue in question was ancient


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## venomlust




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## Haskanael

venomlust said:


>


Hellooo Ragnar blackmane kitbash!


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## MidnightSun

Gonna get me that Ultramarines transfer sheet I tell you h-what.


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## ntaw

Of course they give BA a plastic chalice after I painstakingly GS'd one onto a Priest.

The Assault squad coming with a Thunder Hammer is kinda fun, but the uncovered heads are getting increasingly bad. It's stupid not to wear a helmet into battle anyway.


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## MidnightSun

ntaw said:


> The Assault squad coming with a Thunder Hammer is kinda fun, but the uncovered heads are getting increasingly bad. It's stupid not to wear a helmet into battle anyway.


Space Marine's forehead > reinforced ceramite artificer armour helmet.

Read _Void Stalker_. Sure, the marine who did the headbutting died from it, but still...


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## Haskanael

most of the upgrade sprues look practically like the tools to make a custom commanders/characters for your faction. or just add some extra character to elite units.


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## Woodzee316

Has anyone heard about what they're doing with my beloved Black Templar's? if we are getting our own book, or are we just going to be overlooked again?
There is hope still, as their upgrade sprue is still available.


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## ntaw

Haskanael said:


> most of the upgrade sprues look practically like the tools to make a custom commanders/characters for your faction.


I'll be using this sprue on a new Captain and Priest for my BA army. My current one has been invalidated by the AP2 power sword relic, I must adapt.


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## MidnightSun

Woodzee316 said:


> or are we just going to be overlooked again?.


Wut? Black Templars got a super deal out of the 6th ed Space Marines book, they got way better with more builds. I highly doubt that they'd simply remove a Chapter from the face of creation.


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## Einherjar667

Woodzee316 said:


> Has anyone heard about what they're doing with my beloved Black Templar's? if we are getting our own book, or are we just going to be overlooked again?
> There is hope still, as their upgrade sprue is still available.



There was a rumor a while ago that there was going to be a BT book but who knows


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## tu_shan82

Ten Ragnar Blackmane shoulder pads, knew it. Should have put money on it lol. Some cool stuff on the frame though. Call me greedy if you will, but would have loved to have this one amd the old one available.


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## ntaw

tu_shan82 said:


> Call me greedy if you will, but would have loved to have this one amd the old one available.


There's always eBay/bits retailers, right?


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## Tawa

bitsandkits said:


> To be fair the sprue in question was ancient


This is very true. I guess I'm just getting nostalgic in my old age :laugh:


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## tu_shan82

Tawa said:


> This is very true. I guess I'm just getting nostalgic in my old age :laugh:


Aye, me too. Evrything, not just the sprue, seems like it happened just yesterday lol.


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## Tawa

tu_shan82 said:


> Aye, me too. Evrything, not just the sprue, seems like it happened just yesterday lol.


Wait, what day is it.....? :scratchhead:


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## bitsandkits

im considering doing preorders for the upgrade sprue parts, just waiting on some clear pictures to appear on the gw website


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## Khorne's Fist

Not hugely impressed with the SW sprue. The axe is just half of Krom's. The back pack is the same as his, the snarling helmet is awful. The sword is it's only real selling point for me, as it's obviously there for those inclined to make a plastic Ragnar. Shame it didn't come out a few months ago, it would have saved me chopping up a metal Ragnar just for his sword.


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## ntaw

Khorne's Fist said:


> it would have saved me chopping up a metal Ragnar just for his sword


If I recall, your conversion was boss. Worry not!


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## tu_shan82

got WD today and turns out the big daddy chainsword is actualy an eviscerator, happy days


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## ntaw

tu_shan82 said:


> got WD today and turns out the big daddy chainsword is actualy an eviscerator


What does that mean, to those of us not in the know?


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## tu_shan82

basically a giant chainsword with chainfist rules, so S user x2 and armourbane, unwieldly and specialist weapon, unless its changed


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## venomlust

The UK GW webstore has preorders up for transfers, upgrade packs, and assault marines.



























































































Special bundle: TWO assault squads for the price of TWO!

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB...=12&sorting=phl&view=table&_requestid=6449398

That assault squad is boring as hell to me.


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## bitsandkits

I have to say those decal sheets are amazeballs but £15?? I have defended almost everything they have ever done but £15 for decals i cant defend that.


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## Roganzar

The upgrade pack is cool and the decals are nice. The FW chapter decals are way better looking. I was hoping for more character with the assault squad. Those are an improvement over the old assault squad kit, though. 
Just I kind of hoped for more.


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## venomlust




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## Roganzar

venomlust said:


>


Okay, firing missile launcher is awesome!!
This is something of an improvement on the old devastators. I really like the reinforced armor. Gives them a real Heavy Support feel/weight, kind of thing, to the models.
Now that's the kind of improvement I was expecting with the Assault models.


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## bitsandkits

Honestly didnt expect a new dev squad ! And some new battleforces too. Now question is what else is in the pipeline?


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## Einherjar667

Their website is going to crash again.

I heard its something like:

this week: assault squad
next week: dev squad
after that: codex
after that: DA codex and a character

then 6 weeks of fantasy. And someone mentioned SM clampacks mixed in somewhere.


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## Kreuger

venomlust said:


>


I like the heavier armour. The blockiness and extra trim reminds me of mechanicus and iron hands. Which seems fitting.



bitsandkits said:


> Honestly didn't expect a new dev squad! And some new battleforces too. Now question is what else is in the pipeline?


In retrospect it makes sense. There's a new heavy weapon. 

Now that there's a heavy graviton gun, GW can market a new Dev box.


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## Einherjar667

I just noticed the toned down Empire iconography on these kits. It's been stated before. This works great with the upgrade sprues they released. Would work great with chaos bits as well. I love the dev squads look


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## elmir

One Grav cannon per box? Looks like that'll be the most expensive bit so far?


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## venomlust

Is a heavy grav gun heavy or is it also salvo?


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## tu_shan82

salvo


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## venomlust

Ah, so not totally useless on the move.


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## Beaker

Hope there are going to be 2 Grav cannons per box as all the other weapons appear to be the same as the previous set of. Does this set have 32mm bases the same as the assault squad?

Like the look of the Ultramarine and Dark angels upgrade sprues and the battle forces.
I also like the transfer sheets but seem a bit on the expensive side I will probably order the Ultramarine one anyway.

Does anyone know what clam pack figures are going to be released. 

I'll be waiting to see what comes out next week before buying/ordering anything.

So many space marine goodies.


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## bitsandkits

There will be one of each heavy weapon , they are reducing the number of sprues per box the old devs was a three this will be a two sprue box so kiss goodbye to multiple heavy weapons of the same type in the box, 32mm bases is standard on marines now


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## tu_shan82

if you want lots of heavies, u could by a couple of long fang boxes which are still available for the time being and then get the legs and any grav cannon bits u want from ppl like our mate b+k. I plan on getting a couple and sky claws too but my favorite


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## tu_shan82

part of the hobby is kitbashing and converting, so all the parts i can get, both old and new, to use the better. There are a few cool parts on both the old ass and dev sprues i like, like the pointing power fists, both left and right, along with power


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## tu_shan82

weapons, an auspex scanner, alternate melta bombs and much much more


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## Stormxlr

bitsandkits said:


> There will be one of each heavy weapon , they are reducing the number of sprues per box the old devs was a three this will be a two sprue box so kiss goodbye to multiple heavy weapons of the same type in the box, 32mm bases is standard on marines now


... what the point of buying a Devastator box then if you can just buy a Tactical box and 4 heavy weapons that you need from a bitz dealer like yourself.


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## Beaker

I agree Stormxlr buying a tactical squad and the grav weapons from someone like bits and kits sounds a good idea and good value although I would imagine some of the parts will sell out quickly. I also like modifying the standard marines by using parts and figures from the like of Anvil Industries and intend to use some parts from Kromlech - although the problem with this is you cannot use them in Games Workshop shops.


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## tu_shan82

anyone else notice the pile of used shell casings on DA sarge's base


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## Stormxlr

Beaker said:


> I agree Stormxlr buying a tactical squad and the grav weapons from someone like bits and kits sounds a good idea and good value although I would imagine some of the parts will sell out quickly. I also like modifying the standard marines by using parts and figures from the like of Anvil Industries and intend to use some parts from Kromlech - although the problem with this is you cannot use them in Games Workshop shops.


Really GW shop will mess with you if you have a modified space marine ? Well then just tell them to suck it and leave. You bought the god damn space marines no one can tell you what not to do with them. 
What if you tell them you green stuffed it all ? What they will do? Scrap the paint away to check if its green or not? 
Mate I think that's absurd , go ahead and buy all those custom marine parts and enjoy your beautiful and unique models.


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## Einherjar667

Stormxlr said:


> Really GW shop will mess with you if you have a modified space marine ? Well then just tell them to suck it and leave. You bought the god damn space marines no one can tell you what not to do with them.
> What if you tell them you green stuffed it all ? What they will do? Scrap the paint away to check if its green or not?
> Mate I think that's absurd , go ahead and buy all those custom marine parts and enjoy your beautiful and unique models.


I believe he meant using GW knockoff models at a GW shop, they will give you crap for that but that's nothing new.

Edit: also, the buzz all over warseer is that there will be 2 of each weapon in the box.


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## ntaw

Stormxlr said:


> Really GW shop will mess with you if you have a modified space marine ? Well then just tell them to suck it and leave.


The GW a town over did _exactly_ this to me, two Kromlech axes (and subsequently due to lack of effective kit, a sad Death Company) were not allowed to see the tabletop despite 99.9% of my army being composed of GW product. I literally asked him "are you kidding" because I honestly thought he was, and the response was stern enough that I had to laugh and leave. Fortunately, Toronto is essentially right up the street and there are -tons- of LGSs to use as alternates. I could see this being an issue for some areas.

I'm really digging that the Assault squad is coming with bits of rubble for the bases (very sad they're now $49). Very cool for us who are exceptionally lazy in that regard, and seemingly easy for them to include in sprues as extra bits. Emperor knows, I have enough bolter/pistol arms to last me through the 13th Black Crusade. Also I spy every close combat weapon upgrade for the sergeant in the sprue. This makes a happy camper!

If the Devastator squad box is dropping to no doubles of the weapons and not dropping significantly in price I'll likely be bombing out to pick up a couple boxes from various LGSs in the neighbourhood before they disappear/cost way too much online. I think they look really cool with the reinforced armour, and that shooting missile is bad-ass in the extreme, but I don't know I need legs while I can guarantee I need heavy weapons.

Look at me with my 'need'. Like there's no option for me to _not_ collect this army :laugh:

Just noticed the battleforces in the picture...lamezilla. Give me a Tactical, DC, Assault, and Rhino box every day of the week over a Tactical squad, Dreadnought, and Captain.

EDIT: Just noticed the wording on the 1st Company bundle in the pre-release section:



> This bundle gives you everything necessary to field the 1st Company Task Force formation from Codex: Space Marines


I wonder how many Formations the new SM codex will have?


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## Beaker

Just to clarify modified marines - I have used special forces heads from mad robot on a set of scouts and when I set them on the board the manager lifted them and looked at them with a look of displeasure - I have used heavy weapons from Anvil Products to modify figures but have not taken them into my local GW shop. I have also used helmeted heads with plumes from Anvil (prior to the ones now available on the ultramarine upgrade sprue) and other close combat weapons. I have a set of 5 snipers from anvil which I bought just to paint up and have in my collection. I was also thinking of getting some Kromlech legionaries were you can get bionic legs and bike legs?
Has anyone else used other manufactures products either to use in GW shops or just to have for their own collections?


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## MidnightSun

GW gives managers a _lot_ of leeway in that regard. If you have a 100% not-GW model, then they won't have it, but I've seen everything from 'conversions need to be recognizably Warhammer with some GW bits' to 'you must have 100% GW stuff and I will scrutinise your conversion to check that you've used GW glue to stick it together'.

Best place for gaming is totally home> LGS> gaming club> GW though, at least in my area. I find GW's a fine place to game when you're starting out, but it tends to be just that; a place where beginners play.


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## bitsandkits

Cant really blame GW managers getting arsey over non GW products, try taking your starbucks mug into a costa coffee and see how far you get


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## venomlust

Via Timotheus @ B&C:


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## Beaker

I take your point bitsandkits but I would have thought the odd specialist weapon or head would be ok.

On a different subject I was looking on the GW website and saw that they are selling ten Citadel 32mm Round Bases as a webstore exclusive for £3. does this mean we will have to rebase all our figures or will the old style 25mm bases still be usable?


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## ntaw

Beaker said:


> does this mean we will have to rebase all our figures or will the old style 25mm bases still be usable?


Play your models with the bases supplied with them, those are for people that want to up the size. 

They look way cooler on the 32mm base. I have a mixed Death Company squad and the ones on the bigger bases are massively more imposing on the battlefield....and it makes us subtly harder to get blast templates on.

To contrast my experience at one GW where I laughed and walked out, the one in the city I live in is OK with conversions provided the model is at least 70% GW product or GS'd to whatever degree.


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## bitsandkits

Beaker said:


> I take your point bitsandkits but I would have thought the odd specialist weapon or head would be ok.
> 
> On a different subject I was looking on the GW website and saw that they are selling ten Citadel 32mm Round Bases as a webstore exclusive for £3. does this mean we will have to rebase all our figures or will the old style 25mm bases still be usable?


Its not my place to say what a store manager should or shouldnt do regards non GW parts, its dealers choice at the end of the day, you want to play in his store then you have to abide by his rules, its no different than playing anywhere other than your own home, if i want to play xwing at my buddies house and he has a strict "do not use my shower curtain as toilet paper " house rule then im gonna clean my bum hole some other way or miss out on a game(and trust me saying the bottle nosed fucker was asking for it wont wash and neither will the curtain)


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## Einherjar667

Am I the only one here with a super nice GW store manager? He's the sole employee, super positive and encouraging of conversions.

heck, he greets everyone with a handshake when they come in the store.


Also, that DA chaplain kicks.ass.


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## tu_shan82

nah my manager is pretty cool, I was nine bucks short to buy glotkin hardcover rule book and he paid the difference out of his own wallet, nice guy


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## Einherjar667

Woah, that IS really nice.


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## tu_shan82

yeah hes a genuinely kind hearted and decent man, and a rarity in this day and age. That chaplain IS awesome sauce. Also anyone notice what appears to be either ANOTHER crozius or the top of a force staff. Either a second chaplain or a librarian?


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## Einherjar667

tu_shan82 said:


> yeah hes a genuinely kind hearted and decent man, and a rarity in this day and age. That chaplain IS awesome sauce. Also anyone notice what appears to be either ANOTHER crozius or the top of a force staff. Either a second chaplain or a librarian?


Word over at Warseer(Gosh I f'n hate that place) is that it could be a TDA librarian in a clampack, for the DA release.


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## tu_shan82

wow GW must have a serious hard on for TDA librians lol. Generic finecast, space hulk, BA clampack and now this fella, and only one fugly TDA chaplain. Still if the previous three are anything to go by this libby will be awesome sauce, and a must have for


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## tu_shan82

me, even though I would have prefered a termie equivalent of that awesome interogator chaplain.


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## mayegelt

My local GW tends to prefer GW stuff, but as i am a player since the early 80s he genuinely couldnt tell my old plague marines were citadel as he wasn't even born then.
The main prob i have encountered was at GW HQ that insisted i use a GW void shield generator, dispite it being limited print and selling out on 10mins and never made again. I had a nicely converted set of small coke bottles with wires and stuff.


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## Kreuger

mayegelt said:


> The main prob i have encountered was at GW HQ that insisted i use a GW void shield generator, dispite it being limited print and selling out on 10mins and never made again. I had a nicely converted set of small coke bottles with wires and stuff.


On the one hand I can see GW HQ being tough competitors models, but that seems ridiculous. I could see being mad if you showed up with something from Chapterhouse studios. But picking on you because you didn't have an expensive limited edition mini and you instead converted your own? That's bogus. 

They can't even reasonably argue that. As a player you can't buy what they aren't selling.


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## Einherjar667

!!!not thst i agree wth you getting hastled for the void shield generator thing!!!!!

But they were probably such pricks so that people cant bring in soda cans and shoe boxes to represent dreadnoughts and land raiders, then whine "well he uses a conversion for the void shield generator". You just happened to be collateral damage.

That or the dude is just an ass, cause on the other hand, don't they use conversions for terrain and such as well as their own kits? So it IS indeed bogus as hell.


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## ntaw

Interesting. Reading the blurbs offered on the GW site today and noticed this little nugget on the Eviscerator:



> There are new weapons in the box, too, such as the eviscerator wielded by this Sergeant. It’s not just a weapon for officers, though – any Space Marine in the squad can carry this tank-shredding blade.


Tank-shredding, you say? I'm gunna guess a Strength bonus, maybe S+2, and Rending. Two-Handed, Unwieldy for sure.


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## venomlust




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## Roganzar

I like that Interrogator-Chaplain, bastard looks down-right scary. Warp, that guy looks like he would make a good basis for a Word bearers conversion to a Dark Apostle.


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## ntaw

Roganzar said:


> I like that Interrogator-Chaplain, bastard looks down-right scary.


Where is this guy people keep talking up? I can't seem to find a picture among the posts.


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## Creon

Eviscerators have been carried by SOBs for years. They're Power Fists with Armorbane.


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## kickboxerdog

ntaw said:


> Where is this guy people keep talking up? I can't seem to find a picture among the posts.


----------



## ntaw

Creon said:


> Eviscerators have been carried by SOBs for years.


:laugh: my bad. Guess I overlooked them.

@kickboxerdog, that picture is broken for me


----------



## Einherjar667

Interrogator chaplain is awesome!!!! And is that a generic tda libby? Thats really cool!


----------



## Asamodai

Really like the Interrogator Chaplain. Looks bad ass. The Librarian is very similar to the Blood Angel one but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Same cool model, fewer blood drops to file off.


----------



## tu_shan82

Creon said:


> Eviscerators have been carried by SOBs for years. They're Power Fists with Armorbane.


so a chainfist? I mentioned this earlier, does no one read lol? on a serious note, very excited that any squad member can take one


----------



## Creon

It's a major-ass Two handed super Chainsword. Wieldable by determined nuns and crazy priests, and now Marines.


----------



## venomlust

Word is that the devastator kit comes with 2 of each weapon, not 1.


----------



## ntaw

tu_shan82 said:


> I mentioned this earlier, does no one read lol?


It's kinda hard to sort through for information in threads when there's a dozen pages and side conversations all over the place (that take up entire pages). Sorry to have missed it.



venomlust said:


> Word is that the devastator kit comes with 2 of each weapon, not 1.


That would be great! I never understood why (aside from sprue space) there wasn't two Multi-Meltas and/or Missile Launchers in the current kit.

EDIT: FFS I can't even load a picture of this Chaplain or Librarian on the other forums as well. My 'gives a fuck' switch just went firmly into the 'off' position.


----------



## tu_shan82

ntaw said:


> It's kinda hard to sort through for information in threads when there's a dozen pages and side conversations all over the place (that take up entire pages). Sorry to have missed it.
> 
> 
> 
> That would be great! I never understood why (aside from sprue space) there wasn't two Multi-Meltas and/or Missile Launchers in the current kit.
> 
> EDIT: FFS I can't even load a picture of this Chaplain or Librarian on the other forums as well. My 'gives a fuck' switch just went firmly into the 'off' position.


Don't stress man I wasn't serious, he problem with the internet sometimes is what we write doesn't come across they way we intended. In all honesty its probably my fault for not using some sort of emoticon to indicate I was joking.


----------



## Achaylus72

You noticed that the new Assault marines just went up from $55 to $70.

an whopping 35% hit to the pocket.


----------



## SonofVulkan

I like the heavy leg armour on the devastators. Reminds me of the old metal ones. I wonder if the combi-bolter in the dev kit will have all the options?


----------



## Einherjar667

@ntaw can you see this?


----------



## venomlust

They really have a hard-on for power fists on SM special characters these days. I guess a chappie has an invuln to make it worthwhile, at least.


----------



## bitsandkits

Achaylus72 said:


> You noticed that the new Assault marines just went up from $55 to $70.
> 
> an whopping 35% hit to the pocket.


your maths is way off


----------



## Beaker

venomlust said:


> Word is that the devastator kit comes with 2 of each weapon, not 1.


If that's right its great news. I couldn't understand why GW would take a backward step and not release two sprues with the new set as they had done in the previous set especially when there is a new weapon included.


----------



## venomlust

I can see SM players buying 2 boxes and magnetizing the weapons. That's what I'd do, anyway.


----------



## Bindi Baji

venomlust said:


> Word is that the devastator kit comes with 2 of each weapon, not 1.


that sounds v optimistic, quite frankly I'll be shocked to my core if this is the case,
so shocked in fact, that I'll be buying a box.........


----------



## venomlust

Comes from the guy on B&C who has the german version of the WD. By no means guaranteed to be true, though.


----------



## Einherjar667

Bindi Baji said:


> that sounds v optimistic, quite frankly I'll be shocked to my core if this is the case,
> 
> so shocked in fact, that I'll be buying a box.........



The big guys on warseer said it too


----------



## ntaw

tu_shan82 said:


> Don't stress man I wasn't serious


No stress brother....well, aside from technology not loading pictures for me :grin:
@Einherjar667 finally!! Thanks man, that model does indeed look all kinds of bad-ass. I could do with a few less clenched power fists in general, but the armour is very cool.


----------



## Einherjar667

We could be on the brink of a new campaign:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/06/wfb-9th-new-age-of-sigmar-starter-secrets.html


----------



## venomlust

Would be awesome if the campaign tied into the alleged Tzeentch daemonkin release.


----------



## Vaz

Slaanesh man. Slaanesh.


----------



## venomlust

Shit I'd be happy with either.


----------



## Einherjar667

There's been a lot of rumours about a DA vs Thousand Sun campaign, or box set, or SOMETHING along those lines. Maybe it will go DA release --> Campaign releases --> Tzeentch Daemonkin release, then all the WFB stuff.

There were rumours of a Tzeentch sorcerer clampack as well.


----------



## tu_shan82

vaz said:


> slaanesh man. Slaanesh.


qft


----------



## Achaylus72

bitsandkits said:


> your maths is way off


 Yeah my bad on that I used 50 instead of 55 as a start point, it comes to %27.30 increase.

Thanx for the correction :good:


----------



## Roganzar

Vaz said:


> Slaanesh man. Slaanesh.


As with all things Slaaneshi, pics or it didn't happen.:laugh:


----------



## Tawa

Slaanesh? Tzeentch? Ha!

It is the blessings of Grandfather we seek...... :crazy:


----------



## Stephen_Newman

Am I the only one still gawking over how amazing the Special Edition Codexes look for this one?

Only thing putting me off is how long will it be before they get updated again.


----------



## bitsandkits

Stephen_Newman said:


> Am I the only one still gawking over how amazing the Special Edition Codexes look for this one?
> 
> Only thing putting me off is how long will it be before they get updated again.


When will they be updated again ?


----------



## Roganzar

Tawa said:


> Slaanesh? Tzeentch? Ha!
> 
> It is the blessings of Grandfather we seek...... :crazy:


They need to make a Nurgle Chaos lord that looks somewhat like Immortan Joe from Fury Road.








Decaying body held together with armor, that respirator, you can't tell me he wouldn't make a great looking Nurgle Lord. That and you get to go, "Mediocre!" every time you beat your opponent.


----------



## Roganzar

Stephen_Newman said:


> Am I the only one still gawking over how amazing the Special Edition Codexes look for this one?
> 
> Only thing putting me off is how long will it be before they get updated again.


Where are you seeing these Codices????


----------



## Einherjar667

Roganzar said:


> Where are you seeing these Codices????



Bols had some shots and there might be some photos a few pages back.


GW's website is seriously going to crash again when it's released


----------



## Stephen_Newman

bitsandkits said:


> When will they be updated again ?


No idea personally but since its been less than 2 years since the last book I really don't want to possibly spend £100+ on a book that becomes invalidated again unless I can at least get a couple of years out of it.


----------



## venomlust




----------



## Myen'Tal

venomlust said:


>


So no more melta guns?


----------



## Old Man78

So vanilla assault marines still can't have melta guns which are an assault weapon, but can have an even bigger chain sword, so still "assault" marines are pretty redundant in an army whose fluff is all about death from above and daring assaults. Still waiting to see something from this dex to be impressed about


----------



## Roganzar

Oldman78 said:


> So vanilla assault marines still can't have melta guns which are an assault weapon, but can have an even bigger chain sword, so still "assault" marines are pretty redundant in an army whose fluff is all about death from above and daring assaults. Still waiting to see something from this dex to be impressed about


I have to agree with @oldman79 here. So far not seeing a lot to get excited about. Interrogator-Chaplin, oh hells yeah. The devastators, yup.
So far thats about it.


----------



## Einherjar667

Roganzar said:


> I have to agree with @oldman79 here. So far not seeing a lot to get excited about. Interrogator-Chaplin, oh hells yeah. The devastators, yup.
> So far thats about it.


I think the Interrogator Chaplin is only in the DA 'dex.


----------



## MidnightSun

So... Assault Marines are basically the exact same, but no more free transports and optional chainfist per 5 guys?

Chapter Tactics would have to be _damn_ good for me to want these guys.


----------



## ntaw

I have used flame-squads of Assault marines before, but they're generally overshadowed by meltaguns. Good thing I play BA :grin:

Love how GW is all 'any space marine in the squad can have the eviscerator' and then it's 'one in every five models'. Classic.


----------



## Tawa

Roganzar said:


> They need to make a Nurgle Chaos lord that looks somewhat like Immortan Joe from Fury Road.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Decaying body held together with armor, that respirator, you can't tell me he wouldn't make a great looking Nurgle Lord. That and you get to go, "Mediocre!" every time you beat your opponent.


I'd buy that for a dollar! :good:


----------



## Einherjar667

Some sort of cultist HQ like that would be wicked cool


----------



## ntaw

Don't know if anyone's seen this, but:



> via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
> Can confirm some bits from White Dwarf.
> 
> 2 weapons each of lascannon, multi melta, heavy bolter, plasma cannon, missile launcher & grav cannon.
> 6 sets of legs inc one kneeling
> The firing rockets are optional and there are 2 in the box.
> Yes there really is a cherub carrying a melta bomb.
> 
> Chapter Tactics appear to be for the army and then certain Doctrines can be applied on a turn by turn basis
> - Tactical Doctrine: Effected models can re-roll 1's in shooting and assault phases this turn. Tactical squads and characters that have joined them, may re-roll all failed to hit rolls
> 
> There's White Dwarf Exclusive objectives in this issue for armies using Salamanders Chapter Tactics (1 of them "Weather the Storm" is to launch an assault and to not suffer a casualty to Overwatch just for example)
> 
> Space Marine codex is 200 pages (largest yet) including a Gladius Strike Force Detachment and 12 Formations.
> 
> Codex features Salamander Chapter Structure and White Scar squad & company markings.
> 
> Codex is £35/$58 US





> via Captain Citadel 6-3-2015
> 
> Salamanders Unique Chapter Objectives:
> 
> 11 Vulkan’s Gaze – Bonus VPs for killing vehicles with Melta weapons
> 
> 12 Weather the Storm – Bonus VPs for successfully chargin with zero overwatch casualties
> 
> 13 Legacy of Isstvan – Bonus VPs for destroying enemy ints within 18″ of your board edge while 3 of own units are also within 18″ of your board edge
> 
> 14 Vulkan’s Task – Bonus VPs if you control more OBJs than enemy and all OBJs are identified
> 
> 15 Look Them in the Eye – Bonus VPs for wholly destroying enemy units while htey are within 6″ of your units.
> 
> 16 Fires of Nocturne – Bonus VPs for killing enemy units with Flamer weapons


----------



## venomlust

There was no good reason to give them free transports in the previous book, IMO.

Feel the pain of my raptors, loyalists!


----------



## Achaylus72

This is good news as far as my Chaos Army is concerned, now they get Anti-Gravitiaion Cannons, means I have to expand the army by three more tac squads.

Love putting Space Marine clobber into my Chaos Army and its legal to boot.


----------



## MidnightSun

Achaylus72 said:


> This is good news as far as my Chaos Army is concerned, now they get Anti-Gravitiaion Cannons, means I have to expand the army by three more tac squads.
> 
> Love putting Space Marine clobber into my Chaos Army and its legal to boot.


...what?


----------



## venomlust

MidnightSun said:


> ...what?


:laugh:


----------



## ntaw

Achaylus72 said:


> This is good news as far as my Chaos Army is concerned, now they get Anti-Gravitiaion Cannons, means I have to expand the army by three more tac squads.
> 
> Love putting Space Marine clobber into my Chaos Army and its legal to boot.


Soooooo....you play at least a portion of your Chaos army proxied out of the Space Marine Codex? I know there's a lot of people out there that do this sort of stuff, I've just never been attracted to the idea.



venomlust said:


> There was no good reason to give them free transports in the previous book, IMO.


In the previous book they came stock with jump packs in their points cost, in a 10 man squad that's almost the cost of a Rhino/Drop Pod and they're losing their ability to assault the turn they hit the table; a warranted 'free' trade. I like that it's an option here for packs. Don't get me wrong I love and abuse this just a touch because it's what we were left with in the new Codex for ASM, but a 5 man BA Assault squad in a Drop Pod with two meltaguns and a combi-melta is 115 points. If packs were a separate cost like in the new rules handout here, the same squad would be 135. This 'points savings' grows to 30 with our more expensive Fast Rhinos, though we're no longer allowed to swap Razorbacks.

A nice little nudge toward making BA assault marines ever so slightly better than their vanilla counterparts, and a change I would (maybe a little grudgingly) accept across the board for all marine books.

EDIT: just noticed this










....who told them this cherub thing was a good idea?


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Just looked at the GW site. It baffles me that someone would pay €66 to get a full ten man assault squad. I can only assume the dev squad will be the same. 

Yeah, if I needed any more persuading that I'm done with 40k this is it.


----------



## ntaw

Khorne's Fist said:


> Yeah, if I needed any more persuading that I'm done with 40k this is it.


The more they release, the less I care.

Plus those cherubs are fucking creepy.


----------



## Deus Mortis

Khorne's Fist said:


> It baffles me that someone would pay €66 to get a full ten man assault squad...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...baffling...*looks suspiciously as his £68 assault squad*...
> 
> But yes, that cherub looks dumb. If it was just like another pair of eyes for the devs to use that would make sense. But no, let the creepy baby fly around holding the volatile anti-tank weapon. Because it's not like you ever need that kind of thing close to hand or in the hands of someone/something competent.
Click to expand...


----------



## Einherjar667

I take it assault squads are no good at 5 strong?

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ...ing=phl&view=table&categoryId=cat440130a-flat

NZ prre-orderz


----------



## fatmantis

Khorne's Fist said:


> Just looked at the GW site. It baffles me that someone would pay €66 to get a full ten man assault squad. I can only assume the dev squad will be the same.
> 
> Yeah, if I needed any more persuading that I'm done with 40k this is it.


how did you get 66? i just looked its 50


----------



## Einherjar667

It is 50. It's just a web bundle of two of the 5 man boxes. I don't see whats so surprising about the price....


----------



## Khorne's Fist

fatmantis said:


> how did you get 66? i just looked its 50


 I'm looking at it in € instead of £
Pointless bickering


----------



## Einherjar667

Pointless bickering


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Pointless bickering


----------



## Einherjar667

Pointless bickering


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Pointless bickering


----------



## Einherjar667

Pointless bickering


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Pointless bickering


----------



## Einherjar667

Pointless bickering


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Pointless bickering


----------



## Einherjar667

Pointless bickering


----------



## Ravion

Okay children go to your corners.


----------



## venomlust




----------



## Ravion

venomlust said:


>


LMFAO!!!:laugh:


----------



## ntaw

:laugh: oh man. This thread.

Aren't Space Marines getting released soon or something? From BoLS:


----------



## Loli

So presumably the Decurion for marines is a Gladius Strike Force. 

And wait, so Chapter Tactics still exist but everyone now gers those Doctrine things similar to what Ultras had as their tactics?


----------



## Stormxlr

Loli said:


> So presumably the Decurion for marines is a Gladius Strike Force.
> 
> And wait, so Chapter Tactics still exist but everyone now gers those Doctrine things similar to what Ultras had as their tactics?


 Apparently yes. Chapter tactics + Doctorines. I imagine it would tie into special formations too somehow.


----------



## scscofield

Please keep the back and forth bickering out of the threads guys, Thanks.


----------



## ntaw

Loli said:


> So presumably the Decurion for marines is a Gladius Strike Force.


That is what it's looking like, can't say I'm against it. With some of these Formations it's basically making Unbound legitimate with a few compulsory unit choices (that aren't always bad or less effective, like with the standard FOC), really throws caution out the window when making lists.

EDIT: here's some more fun stuff:



> Via Warseer’s Sinsigel 6-5-2015
> 
> ” I apologise if I’m uploading info that has already been posted.
> FLGS nearby started showing SM codex for preview.
> I simply skimmed through the codex so there will be many gaps and slightly inaccurate parts.
> Points costs will not be posted.Chapter Tactics still remain, although every one of them has been ‘buffed’.
> White Scars for example all get hit & run whether the model has bulky rule or not.
> Combat Doctrines only gives to-hit rolls.
> Devastators do not have Slow and Purposeful.
> They do get a wargear allowing the squad to re-roll failed to hits for a single shooting phase.
> Tactical squad can carry grav cannon & amp, although it’s almost twice as expensive as lascannon.
> 
> Vanguards get bonus to charge distance, while Ironclad & Venerable dreadnoughts get 4 attacks minimum.
> Assault centurions’ siege drill now strikes at S10
> Legion of the Damned is still in the codex, and it’s DS ability has been slightly buffed.
> 
> Most vehicles, if taken in squadron of three, gain significant buff.
> Multiple Stalkers(now with interceptor) can ignore cover, where as three vindicators can instead fire a single shot with apocalyptic blast which ignores cover.
> 
> That’s all I can recall with any degree of clarity.”


----------



## Stormxlr

hey anyone having problems with disqus on bols? everything is showing up as simple text with no ui.


----------



## ntaw

^ I've been having trouble loading BoLS recently. Came back last night/today, though I rarely travel past their current news feed after trying to post in their forums.

Too lazy to copy/paste all the pics. Two of each heavy weapons confirmed, plus a ton of kit for the sergeant.


----------



## Khorne's Fist




----------



## ntaw

Sprue pics (edited since it dropped on the GW site):




























Me likey. Loving that GW is putting CCWs and combi-weapons in each new kit.


----------



## Tawa

A Decurion?

Space Marine Cavalry Officers....... :laugh:


----------



## Stormxlr

In your opinion do you think less heavy weapons but more options and bits *and the rest of the changes* are worth the price rise ?


----------



## ntaw

Stormxlr said:


> less heavy weapons


....? We used to get:

2x Lascannon
2x Heavy Bolter
2x Plasma Cannon
Missile Launcher
Multi Melta
Not much extra bling

and now we're getting 

2x Lascannon
2x Plasma Cannon
2x Missile Launcher
2x Multi Melta
2x Grav Thing
2x Heavy Bolters
Much extra bling

Keep in mind there isn't a pic of the third sprue for whatever reason k:

EDIT: it's up on the GW site. At $55 I would say this is probably one of their more reasonably priced kits....on a GW scale of what reasonable is anyway.


----------



## bitsandkits

Stormxlr said:


> In your opinion do you think less heavy weapons but more options and bits *and the rest of the changes* are worth the price rise ?


you mean more heavy weapons and extra bits and totally unique changes such as the legs and the cherub, yes very much yes, this kit is probabley the most value for money kit they have released in 18 months. 

im quite shocked that they have put two of each heavy in the box,honestly didnt expect it, and considering the rest of the intresting stuff they have slapped on the sprue im even more annoyed how shite my eldar jet bikes were ,yeah thats right i havent moved on! 

anyway serious question how much in £s can i realistically charge for the grav cannons each? i dont know much about the weapon, how much are they likely going to be wanted.


----------



## Old Man78

Not interested in the new legs, have lots of spare superfluous bling, I like the hammer and grav cannons, so @bitsandkits will probably get my money.....again


----------



## MidnightSun

Pre-ordered my book today - super excited!



bitsandkits said:


> anyway serious question how much in £s can i realistically charge for the grav cannons each? i dont know much about the weapon, how much are they likely going to be wanted.


I reckon that they're going to a market-crasher for bits, personally - while I can't offer a solid figure, I think the demand for them is going to be _huge_. Grav is amazing.

EDIT: Although I guess I would check for points costs - if it's 40ppm or something, perhaps not.


----------



## Beaker

Is there any mention of The Legion Of The Damned in the new space marines codex?


----------



## MidnightSun

Apparently LotD are still in, but I'm skeptical as they have their own mini-dex.

People on Facebook going wild over this pic, but it doesn't look like the official GW paint job - more than likely to be someone else's army featured in WD (I know Nick Bayton bases his tanks for sure, and he can't be the only one).









EDIT: Actually, I recognize the Whirlwind. It's Nick Bayton's... panic over!


----------



## Beaker

Quote "Apparently LotD are still in, but I'm skeptical as they have their own mini-dex."

Thanks MidnightSun I have a copy of their mini-dex but didn't know if there would be anything different in the main codex or would it supersede anything in the mini-dex.


----------



## MidnightSun

Ah - well, what I've seen is that they're still in, pretty much the same but somehow improved deep strike. Can't remember _where_ I saw it, but that's what I saw k:


----------



## ntaw

MidnightSun said:


> Apparently LotD are still in, but I'm skeptical as they have their own mini-dex.


What, like Skitarii or Tempestus Scions? I think they'll survive.

Here's a picture of Lysander's rules...which look identical.










...and here's some confirmation that Black Templars are indeed in the main Codex, with what looks like the names of the Chapter Tactics underneath:










Why else would they be pictured with the other 1st founding chapters?


----------



## MidnightSun

All comes down to Chapter Tactics. Most of it seems almost exactly the same at least in name, although the prevalent rumour seems to be that they pretty much _are_ the same just better (White Scars have no restriction on HnR for Bulky units etc.).

If Righteous Zeal is the return of the old Righteous Zeal rule, I'm going to find my local BT conclave who are leaping around and cheering at how amazing the rule is and punch them repeatedly for terminal idiocy.


----------



## ntaw

MidnightSun said:


> Most of it seems almost exactly the same


I'm kinda getting that feel from the whole codex. Not trying to pass judgement, as I clearly haven't seen the book yet, but I'm curious to see what's actually different between them.


----------



## MidnightSun

It does appear to be more a patch than a sweeping update, but honestly I'm pretty fine with that. Tweaks and slight buffs across the board is good for people who already play that army. Grav-Cannons available on infantry (Devastators or Tacticals) and rumoured Drop Pods being unable to carry Bulky models or anyone without a 3+ or better armour save are both pretty important.

Still, I'm most excited for Chapter Tactics rules over other leaks since they're in everyone's army.


----------



## Einherjar667

It seems to me that GW is eager to get iterations of every codex out that includes formations, to get everyone on the same page. Can't say that's a bad thing other than codexes that recently got updates needing to be redone.


----------



## ntaw

Some more stuffs:



> Via Leman Russ SW on Bolter & Chainsword
> 
> I have seen the new Marine Codex the command tanks are not in it. Tac Squads can take Grav, All dreadnoughts now have 4 base attacks. Only LOW is Calgar. No master of the Forge but
> Techmarines can take Conversion Beamers.
> 
> Bike are troops if you take any HQ on a bike, no need to be five man now. Temis squads of both kinds got a 5 point drop but TH SS cost the same as before after buying the upgrade for them.
> Centurions are pretty much the same.
> 
> No grav on dread that I saw.
> 
> (In reference to The Emperor’s Champion)
> Fear, reroll ld, FNP, can’t remember the others, only the FNP stood out as being really good. EC has no stances, 2+ 4++ 2 base attacks, I5 WS6 plus a pistol, In a challenge can preroll to
> hit and wound and causes ID on a 6
> 
> Sternguard are the same rules wise. A few of the units have got cheaper by a few points. Not sure on Termi weapons, assault squads can take an evissorator for every 5 guys
> 
> Honour Guard and Command Squads are Elites now you don’t need characters to take them. Fist is still unwieldy. All termis are 5 cheaper TH SS upgrade is 5 points more.
> 
> Calgar the same just LOW and can choose his Warlord trait so will pretty much always have FNP. He still lets you use a doctrine twice and now they are better he is better.
> 
> Calgar can pick his Warlord Trait from the marine list the best one being FNP. Shrike and any jump unit he joins can infiltrate. Vulcan master crafts melt weapons. Khan gives scout to bikes rhinos and razors. No Iron Hand character. You can take a librarian formation where one librarian can know any of the powers the others have if they don’t cast and warp charges are on 3+
> 
> Lysander has 4 wounds and Eternal warrior still and Fist or Dorn is +6S. Kantor makes Sternguards objective secured
> 
> Didn’t read Grimaldus, Helbrecth gives all units Hatred and Fleet once per game. Kahn, Sicarius and Him still only ap3. Sicarius lets you effect reserves and give one tac squad a usr.


----------



## elmir

I think they just want to give them their own formations and bring it in line with the other marine dexes (SW, BA). 

Small tweaks are great news for me. I've always wanted to dabble around a bit with creating the excorsist chapter to ally to my GKs... I was holding off for the new codex to droppod in my purifiers...


----------



## MidnightSun

> Tac Squads can take Grav, All dreadnoughts now have 4 base attacks. Only LOW is Calgar. No master of the Forge but Techmarines can take Conversion Beamers.


Dreadnoughts going to A4 is *super* nice if true; the rest is all gravy.



> Bike are troops if you take any HQ on a bike, no need to be five man now. Temis squads of both kinds got a 5 point drop but TH SS cost the same as before after buying the upgrade for them.













> Centurions are pretty much the same. No grav on dread that I saw.


In the case of _Blah Blah Blah vs The State of Whatever_, I find that nobody gives a damn.



> (In reference to The Emperor’s Champion)
> Fear, reroll ld, FNP, can’t remember the others, only the FNP stood out as being really good. EC has no stances, 2+ 4++ 2 base attacks, I5 WS6 plus a pistol, In a challenge can preroll to
> hit and wound and causes ID on a 6


Nice that he's something you can use now, if he's reasonably priced.



> Honour Guard and Command Squads are Elites now you don’t need characters to take them. Fist is still unwieldy. All termis are 5 cheaper TH SS upgrade is 5 points more.


Brilliant. Honour Guard Elites are _sick_.



> Calgar the same just LOW and can choose his Warlord trait so will pretty much always have FNP. He still lets you use a doctrine twice and now they are better he is better.


Different *how?* Is looking at the army special rules too much to ask?!



> Calgar can pick his Warlord Trait from the marine list the best one being FNP. Shrike and any jump unit he joins can infiltrate. Vulcan master crafts melt weapons. Khan gives scout to bikes rhinos and razors. No Iron Hand character. You can take a librarian formation where one librarian can know any of the powers the others have if they don’t cast and warp charges are on 3+


All to the good. Hoping Tiggy stays the same but casting on a 3+ with his homies.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Sooo regular dreadnoughts have more attacks than Death Company and Furioso dreadnoughts.....? Riiiiiiiiiight.


----------



## ntaw

^ lol I know eh? Always good for a laugh, these GW folks.


----------



## venomlust

Good thing Helbrutes got updated attacks too along with their move to Heavy Support in Khorne Daemonkin! Dispelled that myth about loyalist stuff always being better than Chaos. :crazy:

In all seriousness, those extra attacks are nice but won't be enough to save them from my meltaguns.


----------



## ntaw

If my Furiosos had more attacks base I would get more complaints than I currently do.


----------



## Angel of Blood

ntaw said:


> If my Furiosos had more attacks base I would get more complaints than I currently do.


True enough. I just can't get enough of my drop podding SURPRISE Fragiosos and Furiosos. They just rarely ever seem to die and cause utter carnage.


----------



## Stormxlr

*



marine “decurion”

Click to expand...

*


> the basic “decurión” is the demi battle company:
> – 1 captain or chaplain
> – 0-1 command squad
> – 3 tactical squads
> – 1 assault squad, bike squad, attack bike squad, land speeder squad or assault cents.
> – 1 devastator squad or dev cent squad.
> – 0-1 dreadnought of any type.
> This formation may use any battle doctrines once per battle
> if you take 2 demi-companies, you get a full company. (first company with a captain and the second with a chaplain). If done so, any unit that is able to purchase a rhino, razorback or drop pod, may do so without any additional cost.
> Termins are now 175 points (both types), altough hammer and shied cost +10 points
> devastator, for +5 points, may once per game, reroll to hit. Grav cannons + amp cost 35 points.
> Chapter master upgrade is not one per army.
> No land raider squadrons, but one formation (3 land raiders of any type). They reroll to wound vs gargantuan creatures and to penétrate vs superhevies. If they are at 6″ of any other raider of the formation, they ignore any result on the damage chart but destroyed.
> To get the benefit of the tank squadrons you need 3 of them. You lose the benefit if you lose a tank.
> 
> (tryed to hide the rest behind a spoiler tag didnt work...?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *warlord traits*
> *calgar *(275) may choose his warlord trait from the codex.
> They are:
> – warlord gains fear. Test is done with 3d6.
> – warlord and his unit get furious charge
> – warlord has fnp
> – every shooting phase pick a unit at max 12″. Shooting weapons of this unit get the rending sr
> – any unit in the same detachment may use warlord’s ld
> – any unit at 12″ reroll ld tests (moral, pinning, fear) his army may use one additional doctrine, once per game.
> Btw doctrines are cumulative. If you have an ultramarines detachment, using a demicompany and calgar, you may use the same doctrine 3 times during the battle.
> *tigurius* (165). Pretty much the same.
> This is for the *gladius detachment*.
> 
> *formations*
> let’s go with the formations:
> *demi-company* (see above)
> – tactic doctrine may be used once per game (cumulative with other doctrines)
> – they get objetive secured
> *anti-air defence force*
> – 1 unit of hunters
> – 1 unit of stalkers
> benefits:
> – if one hunter hits a flyer with the main weapon, all stalkers in the unit get +1bs when firing at this flyer.
> Restrictions:
> – unit of stalkers: Mínimum 2
> *1st company task force*
> – 3-5 units from:
> Termis
> assault termis
> sternguard veterans
> vanguard veterans
> benefits:
> – fear
> – fearless
> – at the beginning of the game, pick an enemy unit. Units in this formation have preferred enemy against the picked unit
> – enemy units get -2 to l, if they are a 12″ of a mínimum of 3 units of this formation
> restrictions: None
> *strilke force ultra*
> – 1 captain
> – 2 termi squads
> – 2 assault termi squads
> – 1 venerable dreadnoght
> – 1 stormraven
> – 1 lr crusader or redeemer
> benefits:
> – all units stay in reserve. Start rolling on your turn 1.
> – after coming from reserves, or disembarking, shooting weapons of the termi squads get +1 shoot (for example, assault cannon becomes heavy 5)
> – when disembarking from a transport, assault termi units get +1a.
> Restrictions:
> Captain must have terminator armour
> all units must enter via ds, unless embarked in a transport.
> *reclusiam command squad*
> – 1 chaplain
> – 1 command squad
> benefits:
> – all units at 6″ benefit from the fanatic sr, not only the chaplain unit
> restrictions:
> – unit must purchase a razorback. Chaplain may not leave the command squad.
> *10th company task force*
> – 3-5 units of:
> Scout squad
> scout bike
> 0-1 telion
> benefits:
> – precisión shots during first turn
> – if the unit has not the stealth sr, they get it until the move, shoot, charge, etc.
> Restrictions:
> – scout bikes must purchase the mines.
> *storm wing*
> – 1 stormraven
> – 2 stormtalons
> benefits:
> – make only a reserve roll for the whole unit
> – stormraven gets the strafin run sr, if at least a talon is alive.
> Restrictions:
> None
> *centurión siege breaker cohort*
> – 2-4 assault cent squads
> – 1 ironclad
> benefits:
> – if they destroy a transport, unit inside the 2d6 s6 ap4 hits, ignore cover.
> – reroll to penétrate vs buildings
> restrictions:
> None
> *land raider spearhead*
> – 3 raiders of any type.
> Benefits:
> – see previous posts
> restrictions:
> None
> *librarius conclave*
> 3-5 librarians
> benefits:
> – pick one librarian, this guy knows all the powers of any lib of the formation at 12″. Those libs may not cast powers this turn. Picked lib harness warp charges with 3+ if one lib is at 12″ or less. If 2 libs at 12″ or less, harnessing is with 2+.
> Restrictions:
> None
> *armoured task force*
> – 1 techmarine
> – 0-3 tfc
> – 3-5 units of
> vindicators
> predators
> whirlwinds
> – 0-1 chronus
> benefits:
> – ignore crew shaken and stunned if at 6″ of a techmarine or a techmarine gunner
> – thechmarine and techmarine gunner get +1 to ominissiah rolls (repair vehicles)
> *suppression force*
> – 1 whirlwind unit
> – 1 landspeeder unit
> benefits:
> – one landspeeder may pick an enemy unit at 12″. Whirlwinds reroll to hit vs this unit. If the picked unit is out of range of the whirlwinds, the may fire ignoring it.
> Restrictions:
> None
> 
> *chapter tactics*
> chapter tactics are:
> *ultramarinres:*
> – can use one battle doctrine (tac, dev or assault) once per game. Can use tac once, dev once, and assault once.
> *white scars*
> – reroll when running
> – bikes get skilled rider, and +1s to how attacks
> *imperial fists*
> – reroll “1” to hit when using bolt weapons (bolt pistol, boltgun, heavy bolter, assault bolter and combi-weapons)
> – reroll to penétrate against buildings. Devs and dev cents have tankhunter sr.
> *-black templars*
> – crusade + adamantium will
> – no libs
> – if a unit loses a model during any shooting phase, that unit gets counterattack and rage.
> *iron hands*
> – characters and vehicles have the “it will not die” sr. Techmarines have +1 to repair
> – non, vehicle models get fnp (6+). If model already has fnp, gains +1 instead.
> *salamanders*
> – fnp (4+) vs flamers. Reroll to wound and to penetrate when firing flamers.
> – all characters improve one weapon to mastercrafted
> *raven guard*
> – shrouded during until turn 2. May add +1 to night fight roll
> – may use jump packs both in movement and assault phase. Reroll to wound how attacks.
> Some info about the special characters
> *kor’sarro khan*
> – gives scout to the bikes in his army
> – give 1d3 victory points if he kills the enemy warlord in a challenge.
> Warlord trait: 12″ bubble of rerolling l tests
> *vulkan*
> – no changes
> warlord trait: Fnp
> *shrike*
> – no changes
> warlord trait: Fear. Fear tests with 3d6
> *lysander*
> – no changes
> warlord trait: Fnp
> *kantor*
> – sternguard vets have objetive secured sr
> – oath of rynn: Same
> warlord trait: Fnp
> *helbrecht*
> – no changes
> – warlord and unit have furious charge
> *grimaldus*
> – cenobyte servitors give fnp at 6″
> – units in same detachment use warlord l


http://www.heresy-online.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

FTFY


----------



## ntaw

Stormxlr said:


> 【SPOILER]


That bracket should be a "[", I think that's why it failed on you.

WS bikes lost Hit and Run it seems?


----------



## Vaz

I love that Thunderfire Cannon formation. 3 Whirlwinds and 3 Thunderfire Cannons with a Techmarines = 605pts, provided they stay the same cost. Hopefully cheaper.

The Air Defence unit seems kind of self defeating the purposes of taking a Stalker, which can A) Fire at different targets anyway and b) Would be twinlinked shooting at its main target if double firing and c) if the Hunter hits, then it's special rule is worthless.

The Hunter continues to be handled so shittily considering it's one of the better pieces of kit that has been released in recent years.


----------



## Stormxlr

Im thinking you guys missed the part where it says if you take a Full Company （2 Demi Companies ( does not state if you need full 10 man squads) ) and you get a free rhino,razorback,drop pod for each unit that can take it. 
11 Drop pods, Rhinos, or Razorbacks jesus.... my dream of fielding DA company all in drop pods in 2000pts game may finally come true


----------



## ntaw

Stormxlr said:


> my dream of fielding DA company all in drop pods in 2000pts game may finally come true


Not gunna lie, I'm kinda hoping this doesn't happen for all the marine books 'cuz it will make me spend more money than is necessary for my collection :laugh:

EDIT: The more I think of this free transport for everyone thing the more I dislike it. That is a friggin' ton of free points even for a Formation, right after they 'kinda' fix the assault marine nonsense with free transports in exchange for jump packs. I know GW doesn't care about balance, but god damn. 385 points in pods/rhinos.


----------



## ntaw

Get yer squinters out (from BoLS):


----------



## Stormxlr

the dex is on /tg/ if you guys are curious


----------



## Angel of Blood

Soooo do we think Blood Angels will get a rules errata update to bring the likes of scouts up to BS4 as well? Otherwise I'm going to be using allied sniper scouts in my army


----------



## Stormxlr

Angel of Blood said:


> Soooo do we think Blood Angels will get a rules errata update to bring the likes of scouts up to BS4 as well? Otherwise I'm going to be using allied sniper scouts in my army


Very much doubt it. Seems this time around BA were the test/alpha dex for SM codex. Though might depend on how DA dex looks like if it has bs/ws 4 scouts, squadrons, demi company/full company rules. 

I think your best bet is to wait another year until new one comes out. Or i might be wrong and faq is coming , but i doubt that. New sm dex is just a pamphlet of updates and a score of formations ( and most already existed) all could have been fitted on a single FAQ for free.


----------



## Wookiepelt

*Formations*

For your viewing pleasure... New SM Codex Formations!


















































































































... plus SM Force Org, Warlord Traits & Chapter Tactics ... (no squinting required) :wink:


----------



## Wookiepelt

...and the new Devastator Squad sprues!!!

*Grav Cannons & Missile Launchers*























*Heavy Bolters & Multi-Meltas*























*Lascannons & Plasma Cannons*


----------



## Old Man78

I think the armoured spearhead is the only formation I would bother with to be honest


----------



## ntaw

Big ol' sack of meh.


----------



## tu_shan82

Liking the demi company.


----------



## tu_shan82

Found this on BoLS.



GW has linked now all generic marine models to the DA/SW/BA/GK pages at their shop the dark angels got scouts for troops, but no tactical squad ”

Dark Angel tactical squad in the pipeline? I seem to recall a 401 redirect somewhere on the internet for a DA tactical squad. Interesting to say the least.


----------



## Matcap

tu_shan82 said:


> Found this on BoLS.
> 
> GW has linked now all generic marine models to the DA/SW/BA/GK pages at their shop the dark angels got scouts for troops, but no tactical squad ”
> 
> Dark Angel tactical squad in the pipeline? I seem to recall a 401 redirect somewhere on the internet for a DA tactical squad. Interesting to say the least.


Holy crap, I was planning on buying a tac squad + new DA sprue... Guess that will be postponed a bit :grin:

Edit: The original post on BOLS is by Atia, who is the new rumors king AFAIK, so that lends some credence.


----------



## bitsandkits

i think a DA tactical squad is highly unlikely with the introduction of the upgrade sprue,unless the codex DA tactical squad is significantly different to the vanilla squad, that said they already have a tactical squad in the dark vengeance box which has the plasma cannon included so they are pretty well covered in that reguard. 

I would have prefered to have seen upgrade sprues for the other founding chapters or chapter specific sets for fist/sallys/iron/scars, they are seriously over looked. 

the new chaplain and libby are both nice models but i dont think they are worthy of a weeks release and white dwarf, maybe we will something else next week to nicely round off the codex before warhammer fantasy kicks off for 13 weeks of crazy.


----------



## Matcap

bitsandkits said:


> i think a DA tactical squad is highly unlikely with the introduction of the upgrade sprue,unless the codex DA tactical squad is significantly different to the vanilla squad, that said they already have a tactical squad in the dark vengeance box which has the plasma cannon included so they are pretty well covered in that reguard.


On the other hand: BA and SW also got upgrade kits, whilst having their own tac squads. Fair point about the DV set though... though I'm not a fan of those monopose kits.


----------



## Loli

Well I like the 3 Land Raider formation, and I do like the bonuses for it which thrown in with my with my Iron Hands could become rather nice. Otherwise I'll largely ignore it all. Especially since it looks like MotF are gone and my chapter still don't get a named character. Guess I'll just stay in 30k for my Iron Hands.


----------



## tu_shan82

DA tac squad could have robes and tabards, maybe a mace type weapon, DA flavoured special/heavy weapons. Rules wise the may get something special, being 1st legion i could see them getting volkites or maybe some sort of plasma gun/cannon hybrid with salvo


----------



## bitsandkits

Matcap said:


> On the other hand: BA and SW also got upgrade kits, whilst having their own tac squads. Fair point about the DV set though... though I'm not a fan of those monopose kits.


i honestly cant argue with your logic, the blood angel tactical squad was a surprise, as was the blood angel/DA/SW upgrade sprues, realisticaly those three chapters needed those sprues about as much as i need to eat more pies(currently on a diet as i was 22 stone) .

so realistically it wouldnt shock me too much if they did put out a DA tactical squad,but i feel its highly unlikely, maybe it will just be a vanilla tactical squad with a couple of DA sprues chucked in? dont get me wrong i would be totally up for it, hell the more stuff they produce like that the better it is for me from a business point of veiw, if anything i dont think the upgrade sprues go far enough, i think the ultra marines for example deserve at least a set of bad ass veterans honor guard and a plastic Marneus Calgar or maybe they could do more upgrade sprues and do some terminator upgrades too.
come to think of it the vanilla space marine terminators could do with a revamp while we are at it, and the command squad sprue is really starting to look tired, i was looking at it yesterday and comparing the old to the new and the new CAD designed marine sprues are so crisp and smooth.


----------



## tu_shan82

just speculation on my part, they might not even get a tac squad at all


----------



## tu_shan82

is it me or does anyone agree that ultra smurf sprue would have been better with some tyranic war veteran bits, the play such a huge part of their fluff yet are barely represented model wise


----------



## Nordicus

tu_shan82 said:


> is it me or does anyone agree that ultra smurf sprue would have been better with some tyranic war veteran bits, the play such a huge part of their fluff yet are barely represented model wise


I don't think you could fit it on the model - There's already enough bling on them to make a modern rapper go "Yo dawg, chill".


----------



## Bindi Baji

New DA tactical squad will feature tactical squad sprues with the DA upgrade sprue plus a sprue of pouting SM heads and SM torsos featuring my chemical romance t-shirts and banners


----------



## bitsandkits

tu_shan82 said:


> is it me or does anyone agree that ultra smurf sprue would have been better with some tyranic war veteran bits, the play such a huge part of their fluff yet are barely represented model wise


very true, could be something for a future sprue, if GW had any sense they could really make the most of these cheap little add on sprues, tyranic war vets upgrades, bionics upgrades, different mk armour sprues, terminator upgrades, banners, different mk bolters, and god forbid things like, Ork clan upgrades, different Eldar heads/helmets(since they never put them in the fecking kits),pretty much anything forgeworld have done in the last 20 years that is an upgrade set, vehicle doors and icons 

they are a licence to print money in my opinion, whats important is availabiity, put them in stores and sell them to indies and the upgrade sprues will sell well.


----------



## Matcap

bitsandkits said:


> i honestly cant argue with your logic, the blood angel tactical squad was a surprise, as was the blood angel/DA/SW upgrade sprues, realisticaly those three chapters needed those sprues about as much as i need to eat more pies(currently on a diet as i was 22 stone) .


I agree with you there, don't mind they released those upgrade kits,but there are others who needed the attention more. (Black templar, Imp fists, Sallies) Well done on the getting healthier part btw :good:



bitsandkits said:


> so realistically it wouldnt shock me too much if they did put out a DA tactical squad,but i feel its highly unlikely, maybe it will just be a vanilla tactical squad with a couple of DA sprues chucked in? dont get me wrong i would be totally up for it, hell the more stuff they produce like that the better it is for me from a business point of veiw, if anything i dont think the upgrade sprues go far enough, i think the ultra marines for example deserve at least a set of bad ass veterans honor guard and a plastic Marneus Calgar or maybe they could do more upgrade sprues and do some terminator upgrades too.
> come to think of it the vanilla space marine terminators could do with a revamp while we are at it, and the command squad sprue is really starting to look tired, i was looking at it yesterday and comparing the old to the new and the new CAD designed marine sprues are so crisp and smooth.


Very true, wouldn't be a bad move if they just redid the rest of the old basic SM Boxes. I opened a assault marine box and black templar box the other day and it's a lot worse in comparison to the new stuff. 



tu_shan82 said:


> just speculation on my part, they might not even get a tac squad at all


Don't you dare crush my hopes! :shok:


----------



## tu_shan82

dont get me wrong i want it too, but between the new upgrade sprue, the coy veterans box and the backpacks from the dark vengeance tac marines along with both the FW and limited ed GW transfer sheets i reckon i will have some cool looking sons of caliban


----------



## elmir

Can't fault them for trying something new (like the upgrade packs) on chapters that are more popular. 

If they sell well, you might see them for other chapters soon as well (would love an iron hands one for bionics).


----------



## MidnightSun

Nothing I own got nerfed, most all of it got buffed, there's nothing blatantly overpowered or even an obvious 'best choice' in many areas, some shitty units got made a lot more viable, and the points got brought down.

I fail to see what people can be sad about.


----------



## Asamodai

The difference between BA/SW boxes and a DA box is that the former have different weapon options to the vanilla codex, Heavy Flamers for BA and pretty much everything for SW. I doubt DA would get their own squad for aesthetics only. If the new codex gives them new weapon options then maybe, but not otherwise. If we're going by them missing on the website, I'd like to note that Vanguard Veterans have been listed as Fast Attack for the entire time that they have been Elites. If something is missing I would sooner assume that someone just made a mistake somewhere.


----------



## Woodzee316

loving the chapter tactics for the BT and points reduction for Grimaldus. makes the neophytes worth taking again the sacrificial 10pnts for Rage and counter attack. back to bolt pistols and chainswords, the true BT's.


----------



## bitsandkits

so is it definitely terminator libby and DA Chappy next week? havent seen any definite leaks yet and its friday already? and do we have anything solid for next week?


----------



## tu_shan82

bitsandkits said:


> so is it definitely terminator libby and DA Chappy next week? havent seen any definite leaks yet and its friday already? and do we have anything solid for next week?


There's a pick on bell end of the cover of WD 73 with the interagator chaplain on the cover. Tomorrows issue is 72, so I think all we'll get this week is th Libby.


----------



## bitsandkits

tu_shan82 said:


> There's a pick on bell end of the cover of WD 73 with the interagator chaplain on the cover. Tomorrows issue is 72, so I think all we'll get this week is th Libby.


ahh i see, so we still have a week when the DA tactical could land, the week before sigmar kicks off.


----------



## tu_shan82

theres a possibity of DA tac squad or maybe just the codex. Im not getting my hopes up though, to paraphrase Max Rockatansky "hope will destroy you", or words to that effect.


----------



## Stormxlr

tu_shan82 said:


> theres a possibity of DA tac squad or maybe just the codex. Im not getting my hopes up though, to paraphrase Max Rockatansky "hope will destroy you", or words to that effect.


How about "Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment" Warhammer Rulebook 3rd Edition .


----------



## tu_shan82

that works too, but it's a little too eloquent for max, considering he spent the first half of fury road grunting single words, not that he said much in the second half either.


----------



## tu_shan82

sorry im obsessd with that filum. waited five years for it and wasnt disapointed. Excited by SM and DA releases too however.


----------



## MidnightSun

Woodzee316 said:


> loving the chapter tactics for the BT and points reduction for Grimaldus. makes the neophytes worth taking again the sacrificial 10pnts for Rage and counter attack. back to bolt pistols and chainswords, the true BT's.


Although with BS4 on Scouts and Neophytes, you can put out a fairly horrendous amount of bolter fire from a Crusader Squad if you want :victory:


----------



## Achaylus72

ntaw said:


> Soooooo....you play at least a portion of your Chaos army proxied out of the Space Marine Codex? I know there's a lot of people out there that do this sort of stuff, I've just never been attracted to the idea.
> 
> 
> 
> In the previous book they came stock with jump packs in their points cost, in a 10 man squad that's almost the cost of a Rhino/Drop Pod and they're losing their ability to assault the turn they hit the table; a warranted 'free' trade. I like that it's an option here for packs. Don't get me wrong I love and abuse this just a touch because it's what we were left with in the new Codex for ASM, but a 5 man BA Assault squad in a Drop Pod with two meltaguns and a combi-melta is 115 points. If packs were a separate cost like in the new rules handout here, the same squad would be 135. This 'points savings' grows to 30 with our more expensive Fast Rhinos, though we're no longer allowed to swap Razorbacks.
> 
> A nice little nudge toward making BA assault marines ever so slightly better than their vanilla counterparts, and a change I would (maybe a little grudgingly) accept across the board for all marine books.
> 
> EDIT: just noticed this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....who told them this cherub thing was a good idea?


 I don't play the game, I just collect, but it is still legit as Chaos Space Marines are still Space Marine and are able to gain access to Space Marine Armoury.


----------



## Achaylus72

bitsandkits said:


> very true, could be something for a future sprue, if GW had any sense they could really make the most of these cheap little add on sprues, tyranic war vets upgrades, bionics upgrades, different mk armour sprues, terminator upgrades, banners, different mk bolters, and god forbid things like, Ork clan upgrades, different Eldar heads/helmets(since they never put them in the fecking kits),pretty much anything forgeworld have done in the last 20 years that is an upgrade set, vehicle doors and icons
> 
> they are a licence to print money in my opinion, whats important is availabiity, put them in stores and sell them to indies and the upgrade sprues will sell well.


 Or for the hell of it T-Son just for the comedy value alone.


----------



## venomlust

Achaylus72 said:


> I don't play the game, I just collect, but it is still legit as Chaos Space Marines are still Space Marine and are able to gain access to Space Marine Armoury.


Huh?


----------



## Ravion

Achaylus72 said:


> I don't play the game, I just collect, but it is still legit as Chaos Space Marines are still Space Marine and are able to gain access to Space Marine Armoury.


Um...... is someone missing there village idiot?


----------



## Stormxlr

Ravion said:


> Um...... is someone missing there village idiot?


Cmon he just doesn't know the fluff aswell as you do.
Logically speaking though, there is no reason why CSM don't have access to a most loyalist stuff. (Forge world can be conquered, STCs can be stollen) This has been discussed over and over again on so many boards. Not all csm are blood crazed zerkers or mutants some are relatively new converts like Astral Claws. No reason why they shouldn't have any of the SM units or Formations.


----------



## venomlust

Stormxlr said:


> No reason why they shouldn't have any of the SM units or Formations.


Oooh ok. I wasn't sure what he was getting at.


----------



## DaisyDuke

Seems to me, unless you play raven guard there's nothing to bitch about for space Marines. Well and your wallet but that's nothing new for the GW hobbyist.


----------



## Tawa

Stormxlr said:


> Cmon he just doesn't know the fluff aswell as you do.
> Logically speaking though, there is no reason why CSM don't have access to a most loyalist stuff. (Forge world can be conquered, STCs can be stollen) This has been discussed over and over again on so many boards. Not all csm are blood crazed zerkers or mutants some are relatively new converts like Astral Claws. No reason why they shouldn't have any of the SM units or Formations.


This. @Ravion


----------



## scscofield

Fluff vs game rules arguement is pointless unless you discussing it face to face with your opponent. If they say sure, cool gratz, be prepared if they say no though.


----------



## Creon

And why bitch about Raven Guard? I'm happy with the new codex and have always run Raven Guard as my chapter. And I don't think the Forge Worlds and such hold their STC's. So most of the "more recent" Imperial tech upgrades would really need you to crack the Mechanicus Archives on Mars, I think. where the original STCs might be. At least if I was the Mecanicus, I wouldn't let anyone but the Mars Forge keep orignials. 

As for new converts such as Astral Claws, or even just a fallen chapter, sure at the time of the fall they'd be modern equipped, but over even a few short decades, without Demon Forge support, their non Heresy equipment would break down and fail due to lack of parts.


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## MidnightSun

Because one turn of Shrouded (you can't even pick which turn, it _has_ to be first) and +1 to the roll to see if Night Fight happens is shit compared to army-wide Hit and Run/Skilled Rider/Str5 Hammer of Wrath/re-roll Run, or +1 Feel No Pain on the whole army and IWND on all vehicles, or two turns of your entire army re-rolling 1s to hit with shooting and two turns of your entire army re-rolling 1s to hit in melee with your core infantry units getting flat re-rolls, or all your Devastators getting Tank Hunters and your entire army re-rolling 1s to hit with Bolt weapons including Special Ammo.

For a free benefit, Shrouded on turn 1 is a solid benefit especially if it comes with Night Fight, but given that you give up other Chapter Tactics to use it, I don't think it's good at all.

Also Shrike is one of the worse Special Characters. Not the worst, sure, but nothing particularly special in my view.


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## Orochi

What is the new 'super unit' that's out with this edition of Space Marines?


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## MidnightSun

Most deathstar-able unit is still Grav Centurions, but there's competition. If you mean a 'super-unit' like one particular model, they don't have one - a lot of their vehicle squadrons/formations are designed for killing larger things (the Land Raider formation makes them all pseudo-Superheavies and the max size Predator Squadron gets Tank Hunter and Monster Hunter), plus the obvious presence of Grav for dealing with Gargantuans.

Space Marines is a *fucking amazing* book for internal balance.


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## Orochi

And how does it balance against other (recent) codices like Eldar? As a speculative guess?


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## MidnightSun

I imagine it'll hold it's own (although it doesn't have the raw power of the Scatpack or the Wraithknight in any one unit, it can totally do an number on such things with Grav Cents + Tiggy or something as well as having a bunch of unique tricks to use itself that rely more on fancy rules than on raw killiness) but I've had less than two days to play with it so theory's all I can do thus far.


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## Sethis

My only question before deciding whether to actually try to play a game with my Raven Guard - are the vehicles now Shrouded as well, or is it just infantry only? And have they also cut our Jump Pack benefits? Scout? Infiltrate?

Thanks in advance.


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## Creon

MidnightSun said:


> Because one turn of Shrouded (you can't even pick which turn, it _has_ to be first) and +1 to the roll to see if Night Fight happens is shit compared to army-wide Hit and Run/Skilled Rider/Str5 Hammer of Wrath/re-roll Run, or +1 Feel No Pain on the whole army and IWND on all vehicles, or two turns of your entire army re-rolling 1s to hit with shooting and two turns of your entire army re-rolling 1s to hit in melee with your core infantry units getting flat re-rolls, or all your Devastators getting Tank Hunters and your entire army re-rolling 1s to hit with Bolt weapons including Special Ammo.
> 
> For a free benefit, Shrouded on turn 1 is a solid benefit especially if it comes with Night Fight, but given that you give up other Chapter Tactics to use it, I don't think it's good at all.
> 
> Also Shrike is one of the worse Special Characters. Not the worst, sure, but nothing particularly special in my view.


I'm a fan of always using the Jump move in both movement and assault phase. Teh shrouded is good, the packs are what I want to Raven guard for.


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## Achaylus72

Ravion said:


> Um...... is someone missing there village idiot?


Charming.


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## MidnightSun

Creon said:


> I'm a fan of always using the Jump move in both movement and assault phase. Teh shrouded is good, the packs are what I want to Raven guard for.


The thing is, Assault Marines are still kind of terrible all told, and Vanguard can re-roll their charge distances anyway so all you're really getting is the Str4 Shred Hammer of Wrath. That's not inconsequential, but I don't think it's really enough to make up for the deficiences of Assault Marines and probably isn't as strong as other Chapter Tactics on Vanguard - let alone the consideration that of all the Chapter Tactics, Raven Guard is the only one that doesn't affect your whole army.

I'd like them a lot more if the Shrouded wasn't so bloody conditional.


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## tu_shan82

if I had of written the codex I would have given the RG H+R but only on their jump infantry and made camo netting, IG style, an option on RG vehicles on top of what they got in the codex.


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## MidnightSun

I'd have given Raven Guard re-rolling reserves, Outflank, and made Winged Deliverance the ability to assault on the turn you arrive from Reserves as long as you didn't Deep Strike.

I think it's ridiculous that they're 'the sneaky Marines', because Marines aren't sneaky - their Scouts are, but Power Armour makes a noise like an idling V8 and that's just standing still. You might be able to sneak up on a half-deaf Ork sleeping off a hangover, but not much else.


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## Orochi

not to mention they're what... 8ft tall on average?


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## ntaw

^ HH books make them out to be plenty sneaky. Were 30k suits less noisy perhaps?


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## MidnightSun

No, just poorly written.


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## ntaw

On the topic of the new SM codex, I'm not seeing anything that allows bike units to be taken as troops.

EDIT: just found it in the bike entry, and it now states 'any independent character with the SM faction' unlocks them as troops. FOC swaps remain in 7th!


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## tu_shan82

well that gives me hope BA will get ass marines as troops again in A YEAR AND A HALF when they get their next codex. Seems like one of my armies is always the test bed. They shoul write all the marine books together, even if they release them months apart


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## Asamodai

MidnightSun said:


> I'd have given Raven Guard re-rolling reserves, Outflank, and made Winged Deliverance the ability to assault on the turn you arrive from Reserves as long as you didn't Deep Strike.
> 
> I think it's ridiculous that they're 'the sneaky Marines', because Marines aren't sneaky - their Scouts are, but Power Armour makes a noise like an idling V8 and that's just standing still. You might be able to sneak up on a half-deaf Ork sleeping off a hangover, but not much else.


I think the idea that Raven Guard are 'stealthy' is a bit of a misconception. You're right, you can't sneak up on someone wearing power armour. 

I see Raven Guard more as masters of guerrilla tactics, ambushes, hit and run attacks etc. more than straight up stealth.

Plus Corax and I believe some others have the ability to make people not notice them even in plain sight. I don't know if that's a skill that has survived 10,000 years.


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## ntaw

tu_shan82 said:


> well that gives me hope BA will get ass marines as troops again in A YEAR AND A HALF when they get their next codex.


*shrug* my BA are playing better out of this Codex than ever before (and I came back into the game during the glory days of the razorback rush in 5th). Assault marines can stay FA for all I care, what will push me over the edge is buying a new book every two years.

There's always the Fleshtearer detachment from the Shield of Baal book if you need to up your FA slots.


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## tu_shan82

ntaw said:


> *shrug* my BA are playing better out of this Codex than ever before (and I came back into the game during the glory days of the razorback rush in 5th). Assault marines can stay FA for all I care, what will push me over the edge is buying a new book every two years.
> 
> There's always the Fleshtearer detachment from the Shield of Baal book if you need to up your FA slots.


 True, but the reason I want a new codex despite having received on just six months ago is that I want my units to be on a par with the new SM book, furiosos shouldn't have a lower number of attacks than regular vanilla dreads, our demi company is less flexible and lacks obj secured and I would like WS/BS 4 scouts, ass marines as troops again would just be a bonus. I wouldn't have wanted these things if the vanillas hadn't gotten them with this release, it's lik when DA ere stuck with 4++, combat only storm shields when everyone else got 3++ equivalents. The solution to this would be the design studio writing all the marine codexes at once, even if they released them a few months apart.


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## MidnightSun

Asamodai said:


> I think the idea that Raven Guard are 'stealthy' is a bit of a misconception. You're right, you can't sneak up on someone wearing power armour.
> 
> I see Raven Guard more as masters of guerrilla tactics, ambushes, hit and run attacks etc. more than straight up stealth.


I think you're bang on for their warfare methods, but that's not how GW are writing them and that's the problem.



Asamodai said:


> Plus Corax and I believe some others have the ability to make people not notice them even in plain sight. I don't know if that's a skill that has survived 10,000 years.


Smells like an inconsistent plot device to me.


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## Firewolf

Space Wolves only get 2 detachments. I know that we have Champs of Fenris and the box set formations, but that means another £60+ to get more. I would like more formations in 1 book, but thems the breaks of not playing Codex marines.


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