# Dark Angels Tactics



## maxtangent

Dark Angels are the best/worst/most mediocre and/or most exciting/lame Space Marine Chapter in the game.

Discuss.

Please stay on topic. This thread is for general tactics and what makes the DAs different from the other SM chapters (besides tainted halos). Put anything beyond this premise in its own thread.


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## Master Andael

Well DA have some advantages in comparison to the normal SM.
First of all they have the Ravenwing(bikers with fearless, scout move and homing beacons) and the Deathwing (terminators which can deepstrike turn 1 and are fearless). Secondly all tactical squads, scout squads, biker squads, devastator squads and assault squads can be put into combatsquads.

With the combination of Deathwing and Ravenwing it is quit handy to get your terminators where you want them on turn 1 without scattering and you have a biker squad in perfect range for meltaweapons that they'll probably have.


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## Captain Galus

dark angels are the best space marine chapter IMHO
they have heavy-hitting groundpounders (Deathwing) and fast moving gun platforms (Ravenwing); combined, they can handle any threat, which is more than you can say for some other armies who are too biased towards a particular type of warfare.


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## Rixnor

I don't have an opinion on best/worst/most hedonistic, but i will say combat squads are an amazing tactical advantage. I play primarily against a dark angel army that uses them to great effect by having a more shooty group out of a transport, and assault focused group in a transport.


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## Insanity101

Combining Deathwing and Ravenwing is only really good with experience. As each model is usually 30+ points (ouch) it hurts to lose just one.


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## killer13

dark angles are good if you no how to use them well otherwise they are not very good


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## DarKKKKK

basically, you can create up to 3 very separate and different armies all within the Dark Angels
Standard, Deathwing, and Ravenwing
now of course you can mix them all up, but that at least requires 1-2 specialized HQs with the ability of making a troop choice the Deathwing Terminators and/or Ravenwing Bikes (Belial and Sammael)

depending on how you want to run or create your Dark Angels could depend on which of the 3 you want to take 
all you need to learn is how to use the one you pick properly 

personally, i started with the Ravenwing 
i always have liked bikes and wanted to have a fast army with lots of shots going at the enemy


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## powerful92

I am starting out with DA i have 715 points so far,
Hq
Comp. Master 130
Lighting Claw
Storm bolter
Elites
5 Termies 215
Anything for free
Scouts 120
4 snipers
1 missile
scout 65
Troops
10 Tactical Squad 185- 2 troop choice 
melta, and heavy bolter 
I was thinking of buying a Drednought and a predator to make it 1000 point, right about now i am stinking in battle i think i may want to get ride of my regular scout to save 65 points and up grade thing here and there. What should i do.


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## La Bete

Can any experienced DA players recommend any thing? 

I played my first game with DA tonight (vs. Space Wolves) and got hammered, but only just. A couple of poor tactical decisions on my part and some inexperience with the rules accounted for most of it but I'd be fascinated to read how to really get the best out of this list.


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## DarKKKKK

La Bete said:


> Can any experienced DA players recommend any thing?
> 
> I played my first game with DA tonight (vs. Space Wolves) and got hammered, but only just. A couple of poor tactical decisions on my part and some inexperience with the rules accounted for most of it but I'd be fascinated to read how to really get the best out of this list.


what was ur army list for the game u played?


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## Galahad

Remember, folks, this is meant to be a tactica thread, not a 'I think they're the best' or 'help me with my armylist' discussion. We need long, thorough breakdowns of what units are strongest or weakest in the codex and how to properly exploit them. Do we have some experienced DA players who are willing to put in the effort?


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## The_Pi

Well i think that one of the best units are the chaplains. Quite cheap for an HQ and full equiped, with a command squad and a razorback are a good assault choice and, based in my experience, the enemy is always shooting my deathwing or my dreadnought, so you can arrive unharmed to the enemy lines,were they can do some good job. They can repeat rolls to hit, and the chaplain is fearless (sorry, i play the spanish version and i don't know the name for that rule in english) and the unit that he joins, i always used them, maybe i'm a fanatic of the faith, or i just like the model lol


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## thomas2

IMO the best units for DA are Chaplains (cheap power weapon+invul save), Veterans (10 point upgrade for tacticals with 2 attacks each, and more choices. Command are better with non-chaplain characters, because of fearless), Tactical (Best is 5 man with a special, transport (or razorback for fire support) and a sergeant weapon), assault (quick assault, or cheap drop pod), HB preds (cheap and lots of shots) and devastators (tooled up with cheaper weapons)


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## La Bete

One question I have is over the value of rhinos for tactical squad. How do you stop these getting smoked before you get into bolter range?


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## thomas2

By having alot, or using assault marines to scare the enemy into shooting them and to block LOS and stop shooting through CC.


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## The_Pi

La Bete said:


> One question I have is over the value of rhinos for tactical squad. How do you stop these getting smoked before you get into bolter range?


Move forward full speed, use the smoke launchers...and pray for favorable results on impact table.


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## La Bete

Cool, thanks for the advice. I picked up two rhinos at the weekend so I'll see how they go.

What do you guys take as your HQ choice(s)? I must admit to a fondness for Azrael (4 str6 attacks and the whole unit he is with gets A 4+ inv save).


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## The_Pi

La Bete said:


> Cool, thanks for the advice. I picked up two rhinos at the weekend so I'll see how they go.
> 
> What do you guys take as your HQ choice(s)? I must admit to a fondness for Azrael (4 str6 attacks and the whole unit he is with gets A 4+ inv save).


Azrael is a very good choice (that's why it's the big boss!) but i'd only choose him in case i play for more than 2k points, for smaller battles, a chaplain would be my choice.


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## DarKKKKK

La Bete said:


> Cool, thanks for the advice. I picked up two rhinos at the weekend so I'll see how they go.
> 
> What do you guys take as your HQ choice(s)? I must admit to a fondness for Azrael (4 str6 attacks and the whole unit he is with gets A 4+ inv save).


well personally, i play a Ravenwing army and eventually adding in some Deathwing to have a 3K hybrid
so i wont have ur general HQ choice for a standard DA army
ill have Sammael and Belial

but with a standard DA army, i would probably take an Interrogator-Chaplain with the +25 pt upgrade for Term armour and all that comes with it
having Azrael is mostly just for bigger armies


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## bl0203

I'm not a DA player, however what do you think about taking shooty VET squads. For example a 6 man Las/Plas Vet squad for 155 pts. This is cheaper then a 5 Man Dev squad with two Lascannons(160), and it doesn't take up a Heavy Choice. 

Lets face it Dreads aren't that useful for the points IMHO, the only Elite Unit to compete with is Termies. I know 6 man Las/Plas can be cheesy, although DA are supposed to be shooty so its not totally unheard of...

Throw Sammael or Belial in there and you can get field yourself a pretty tough army. Just a thought, probably not so Fluffy.


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## The_Pi

An option a friend of mine propose me after being annihilated by bloody eldars (me):

What about an 1500 army full of tactical squads? I mean 4 or 5, and an HQ and some support?


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## Katie Drake

La Bete said:


> I must admit to a fondness for Azrael (4 str6 attacks and the whole unit he is with gets A 4+ inv save).


Remember that he has a bolt pistol too, so when in combat he'll get +1 attack for using it alongside the Sword of Secrets.


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## La Bete

Well damn, that just makes him even better


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## Warsmith Faustus

Out of the HQ's I've found that Sammael in his land speeder makes for a really nasty choice (and possibly the most loathed model on the table in my gaming group :biggrin: )


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## DarKKKKK

Warsmith Faustus said:


> Out of the HQ's I've found that Sammael in his land speeder makes for a really nasty choice (and possibly the most loathed model on the table in my gaming group :biggrin: )


it is a really good choice
also a costly one b/c its a vehicle

it can die with one random lucky shot possibly in the beginning of the day
14F and 14S is really awesome for a land speeder
but also remember if ur playing against anti-vehicle armies
you might consider the jetbike version
especially against armies like Tau


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## DAG42

Imho, if you choose Ravenwing,Deathwing combo take a transport of some kind to get some shooty tact sqd. (minus hw.) close to the action faster in support. Devastator sqd. can handle (5) long range. Deathwing assault on 1st turn can change your opponents game real fast. You have a good amount of options. Study your codex hard and plan army don't build off the cuff. Also think about 10 man assault sqd. jump packs all speed get in and kill, kill, kill.


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## tssxxx

can sameuls land speeder go into combat
\


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## bishop5

tssxxx said:


> can sameuls land speeder go into combat


You can get attacked in CC but as you're a vehicle with no WS, you cannot be locked in combat so assuming you survive, you can just fly off, turn round and shoot whatever charged you.


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## Archangel

I'm a huge DA fan, they are the main reason I play space marines at all. Veteran Squad w/ Bolter + Powersword + Razorback = awesomeness.


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## Tom_Peanut

I mainly field the deathwing part of the Dark Angels as with Belial (who is a steal at only 130 points) you can get termies as troops i know they get very outnumbered but a whole army of terminators is a very imposing sight and with thier ability to mix assualt and shooting terminator squads they can adapt to almost every battlefield role and venerable dreadnoughts are very hard to kill even with D weapons. (force opponent to re roll result on glancing or penetrating hit table) while land raiders combine the assault carrier and battle tank roles well i occasionally use them with ravenwing for the teleporter homers and the jetbike with the plasma cannon. Also the standard bike gets a 30" assault on turn 1 (12" scout 12" move 6" assualt and shooting too) againt Tau or Imperial Guard infantry thats invaluble and has saved the my bikes from certain destruction many times.. Finally if your using deathwing termies and dreadnoughts i would sujest drop pods, safer than deep strike and it gets the Dreadnoughts there much faster than footslogging but does lose you half the drop pods points value as soon as it lands because of the immobile rule, to give my deathwing an extra punch i occasioanly use Mortis dreadnoughts wich are dark angel exclusive dreadnoughts with two guns instead of one as sometime i seem to find that out of close combat if you cant afford a land raider you have to rely on assualt cannons a little too much for my liking (to use mortis dreadnouts however you have to have your opponents permission) this has gone on a bit hope it helps have a nice day:biggrin:.


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## Sons of Russ

Tom_Peanut said:


> I mainly field the deathwing part of the Dark Angels as with Belial (who is a steal at only 130 points) you can get termies as troops i know they get very outnumbered but a whole army of terminators is a very imposing sight and with their ability to mix assault and shooting terminator squads they can adapt to almost every battlefield role and venerable dreadnoughts are very hard to kill even with D weapons. (force opponent to re roll result on glancing or penetrating hit table) while land raiders combine the assault carrier and battle tank roles well i occasionally use them with ravenwing for the teleporter homers and the jetbike with the plasma cannon. Also the standard bike gets a 30" assault on turn 1 (12" scout 12" move 6" assualt and shooting too) againt Tau or Imperial Guard infantry thats invaluble and has saved the my bikes from certain destruction many times.. Finally if your using deathwing termies and dreadnoughts i would sujest drop pods, safer than deep strike and it gets the Dreadnoughts there much faster than footslogging but does lose you half the drop pods points value as soon as it lands because of the immobile rule, to give my deathwing an extra punch i occasioanly use Mortis dreadnoughts wich are dark angel exclusive dreadnoughts with two guns instead of one as sometime i seem to find that out of close combat if you cant afford a land raider you have to rely on assualt cannons a little too much for my liking (to use mortis dreadnouts however you have to have your opponents permission) this has gone on a bit hope it helps have a nice day:biggrin:.






_*Ravenwing are the Scouts, Deathwing are the Captors.

It's in the Fluff, there is no Argument, they are the dual wings of the Lion, our Chapters own.*_
-Kunanaki


here's my first real stab at 5th edition with a DA "Double-Wing" force with a tactica thrown in:
_
It's a great force from a modelling and collecting perspective. Awesome conversion opportunities [chaos players often think my Deathwing termies with WHFB warrior helms look more imposing then their own spikey versions] while easier on the wallet unless you have a Forgeworld addiction like me...

CAVEAT EMPTOR: This army requires lots of finesse and careful decision making to get the most out of all the special unit strengths.
Played properly, it can force your opponent to throw his or her plan out the window and react to you. You now have the initiative. Played sloppily...well at least it wont take you long to pack up 26 miniatures at the end of a 2000 pt game.... _

*HQ:335 [17%] (2 kill pts)

Sammael	
Jetbike

Belial 
Lightning Claws

Sammy will NOT be scoring anymore, but he's a great shot with his bs-5 buffed plasma cannon.

Highly mobile support unit for the termies thru his shooting or putting them over the top in an closely-matched assault. I think he will be really handy in taking out those min sized troop squads hiding out in the backfield just waiting to grab objectives in the final turns....

Most importantly, they allow my army to be what it is. Rock hard fearless terminators and scouting fearless bikers as troops...PRICELESS


As a bonus, having both characters allow me to take two specialized apothecaries negating two failed armour/invul/ or cover saves a turn...REALLY annoying for my opponent when he shoots at my TeQ army..... Thousand Sons, eat your dusty heart out....:fuck:


ELITES:350 (2 kill pts)


Venerable Dread 
TLLC
Rockets

Venerable Dread 
TLLC
Rockets

What does the Deathwing lack? 

Long range punch. Ven Dreads provide this. They get a buff in 5th edition with cover saves and their damage reroll. As well as tasty blast weapons...



TROOPS:950	[48%] (4-5 kill pts, 4-5 scoring units, 2 homer deployments)

Deathwing Sqd 1: 

5 Terminators 
Assault Cannon, PF, 
Apothecary 
SB, Pwr Wpn [Sgt] 
1x LC's 
SB, PF
SB, PF

Deathwing Sqd 2: 

5 Terminators 
Assault Cannon, PF, 
SB, Pwr Wpn [Sgt] 
1x LC's 
SB, PF
SB, PF


Deathwing Sqd 3: 

5 Terminators 
Assault Cannon, PF, 
SB, Pwr Wpn [Sgt] 
1x LC's 
SB, PF
SB, PF


Ahhh, the core of my army... 15x very bad men... I really like the loadout of the squads. I went with the "water warrior" idea of flexible use. I can pump out a respectable amount of shots, as well as 7x power weapon attacks [4x of which reroll to wound] on the charge before 12x fist attacks. I found it to work really well. I wiped out a "loyalist" termie squad before they were able to land any fist hits in thru the charge... What cemented it for me was whittling down a mixed force of 1k sons thru ranged fire [their ap3 bolts pattered off like rain], and then slicing into 2 squads of plague marines, negating their feel no pain...

I don't have transports for them in true water warrior fashion; I feel the ability to either stand off in hard cover and shoot or Deathwing Assault 2x squads in the first turn and run them instead of shooting gives them all the mobility they should need. 


Ravenwing Squadron	[3] 
Apothecary 
T-Homers

Attack Bike [Multi Melta] [1] 
T-Homer

A small but important piece of the army. With 5th edition, the Ravenwing will be less of a loose cannon. I don't mind losing the ablility to surprise my opponent with a first turn charge. I will be happy to be able to pull my scout move knowing who will be going first. 

The A- Bike is great as it allows me to fake against a gunline/earth army I intend to Deathwing Assault. Run the biker squad up one flank, and they often forget that lonely A-bike on the other flank has a T-Homer as well....

By the next 2 turns, biker squad turbo boosts should have them supporting the Deathwing Assault, completely redeploying from one flank to the other. 

[this flexibility and high mobility allowed me to swing a rematch game into a victory against a fellow Doublewing player who retooled his army after the first game knowing he was facing my list again] 

In games against fire armies/ assaulter/hordes, the bike squad hangs out out of LOS behind a phalanx of Deathwing, ready to save a terminator every turn from shooting attacks... 




HEAVY SUPPORT:365 [18%] (3 kill pts)


Predator "Avenger" 
[Autocannon/Hvy Bolters,Smoke, Light,]



Predator "Warspite" 
[TLLC/Hvy Bolters,Smoke, Light, Dozer]


Predator "Rammstein" 
[TLLC/Hvy Bolters,Smoke,Light, Dozer]*

_
*Twin Linked Lascannons are king when it comes to Imperial Tank-Busting.

The two preds are there to use them. The Heavy Bolters are the back up in case a horde shows up. You can still fire one weapon and move. Might as well be the best single weapon there is...

I thought long and hard about downgrading the first pred's TLLC to the autocannon; great looking turret, horrible stats.

In the end, I went with it because I felt the inclusion of the MM A-Bike gave my Deathwing the ability to land accurately in two different places. Alot harder for my opponent to deal with.

While not having used a Pred in this configuration before, it has potential to really shoot up hordes and at less than 100 pts for AV 13, it's a nice, cheap distraction unit....*
_

*I am really happy with this list so far. Works well in 4th Edition, with a net gain for 5th. Most of all, I finally get to use my favourite models as a core force in a competative list. 

What do the Unforgiven Brothers think about it?*:angel:


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## PUFNSTUF

I run my Deathwing squads basically the same, except the AC termy has a Chainfist instead of power fist. for the few extra points the bonus incase i needed to attack a vehicle is nice. Remember that sammy is not an IC so with the new rules he can be shot anywhere, no hiding him. I tried dual raven and death but found pure death with armor back up more my style. I'd say drop the autocannon pred to get more bikes, combat squading them too for more tele options (assuming your doing deathwing assault) If you have any left over points EA on the preds or dreads may be nice, I know for my Ven one's I wouldn't risk re rolling a stunned result just so I can move, but with EA you don't have to make that choice.


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## Sons of Russ

PUFNSTUF said:


> I run my Deathwing squads basically the same, except the AC termy has a Chainfist instead of power fist. for the few extra points the bonus incase i needed to attack a vehicle is nice. Remember that sammy is not an IC so with the new rules he can be shot anywhere, no hiding him. I tried dual raven and death but found pure death with armor back up more my style. I'd say drop the autocannon pred to get more bikes, combat squading them too for more tele options (assuming your doing deathwing assault) If you have any left over points EA on the preds or dreads may be nice, I know for my Ven one's I wouldn't risk re rolling a stunned result just so I can move, but with EA you don't have to make that choice.


CHAINFISTS

You won't need chainfists in 5th edition; Monoliths still have Living Metal and vehicles are hit on rear armour. [thus only useful against landraiders and dreads]

BIKES

I hate bikes. Why? I make horrible 3+ armour save rolls for my guys....Hence the terminator army....

Further, I find they are just too expensive as 1 wound models on a battlefield that will have far less LOS blocking terrain.

The old days of boosting your bikes up a flank and hiding behind a forest are coming to an end.

TANKS

Again with the loss of most area terrain blocking LOS, it allows units such as predators to blast away from behind terrain at units hiding behind terrain themselves...

Tanks dont really need to move around anymore; they are not scoring, nor can they really take advantage of cruising along the edges of area terrain to shoot at isolated units and limit the return fire.

That said, if the rumours of the new Power of the Machine Spirit are true, I may get rid of all 3 preds for a standard Landraider and [possibly] a Landraider Redeemer....


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## BloodANgels89

As an ex DA player and someone who plays them from time to time, I find the best DA lists tend to either be standard DA with a mix of heavy fire and assault, or the raven wing. I hardly see a deathwing army work very great. And just as any other SM players, dont waste time on dreadnoughts or terimnators. 

My friend runs a three tactical squad, two devs, two chaplains each with assault squad, and vindicator. Works awesome for him and gives my BA a worthy challenge. 

Also tthe raven wing are very sexy and tend to over run the competition with bolter fire, assault cannon fire, and multi melta fire. Never played against them but seen them run great.

So all in all, take those interrogator chaplains with assault squads, vindicators, and long range fire power from either las, or plas cannons.


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## Ordo Xeno Commander

Ok, heres my 2 cents.
BTW im going fluffy here, im a painter and modeler with a love for guns :wink:

Im looking at playing an almost entirely gunline army. 2 Dev squads, total 8 plasma cannons will tear apart anything from basic troops right up to some of the hardier tanks.

1 10 man termie squad with 3 TH, 2 LC, 3 PF, 2 CF and an Asscan. Take Belial. Deepstrike first turn onto objective and proceed to hold OR DS near enemy troop choice and blow/CC to hell.

5 5 man tac squads ALL with HB's. Ive found a load of HB's can tear through infantry like crazy, simply the extra amount of shots kicks ass.

thats the basis, i know ill have points lying around SOMEWHERE so I'll field something else.

The idea is to simply blow the living heck out of the enemies troops, negating their ability to hold objectives while my DW hold one, and possibly a tac squad or two holds another.

Note: this will also be played along side my 1500 BT list which is very assault oriented, in the larger battles atleast, lending extra CC to the army with the ability to run even faster AND be very deadly in CC


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## genjuros

My Dark Angles are entirly Deathwing with master Belial of the deathwing and an interrogator chaplin in terminator armour
for longer range support throw in some dreds and drop pods

just the look on a persons face when they see that your entire army is terminators is priceless

and the best bit is they actually work really well!!!:laugh:


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## genjuros

I know what your saying just looking at your opponents face when he realises he's fighting an army of terminators is priceless. But the most ownage list unit in my Deathwing army is Belial,Termie chaplin,deathwing squad with heavy flamer,apothecary,and 3 lightning claws.(SPAM RE-ROLLS TO HIT AND WOUND)


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## Omalley69

I often wonder that might be the best way to equipt my deathwing with...

i use to go with power fists and power weapon on the sarge. But that sarge just underdo so much in cc, i actually want to lose him first, rather than a powerfist termi.

I realy need the power fists againts nob squads, carnifexes and wraithlords. But the amounght of attacks is low, compared to dual lightning claw termis, and what about thunder hammers? the 4+ inv save helps against power claws and so on. But then you lack stormbolters to shoot down swarms on the advance.

How do you guy tend to equipt them?

IMHO:
Belial: seem to be best with dual lightning claws with his ini 5. 
Sarges: thunderhammer and shield.
Termis: a mix of dual lightning and SB with fist. 

Gives you a mix of everything needed.

Thunderhammer isnt realy worth it, the SB is much more needed than the inv save increase.


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## Agrippa

I have found that Sammiel on jetbike with his AMAZING plasma cannon, then sticking a 3 bike combat squad next to him one with an apothacary upgrade to save his wound should the PC get hot. Also, Mutli-wings seem to work great, the combination of bikes and terms can be deadly. Some games able to get your term. into the assault on your next turn and destroy your enemies front line, then allowing bikers to flank on both sides thanks to combat squads. Attack bikes are also excellent choices.

I do agree with fielding Azrael(angel of death, google it lol) in bigger games, because of his points and he is so powerfull almost makes you feel bad for fielding him.... almost.


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## viciousjokekiller

Omalley69 said:


> i use to go with power fists and power weapon on the sarge. But that sarge just underdo so much in cc, i actually want to lose him first, rather than a powerfist termi.
> 
> I realy need the power fists againts nob squads, carnifexes and wraithlords. But the amounght of attacks is low, compared to dual lightning claw termis, and what about thunder hammers? the 4+ inv save helps against power claws and so on. But then you lack stormbolters to shoot down swarms on the advance.
> 
> How do you guy tend to equipt them?


 I hear the comment about the sergeant with a power sword. He's always the first of my unit to die because his power sword is so useless!!

When I use my terminators, there are generally 2 squads.
1. 3 with storm bolters and power fists, 1 with assault cannon and power fist, 1 sergeant with a power sword and storm bolter.

2. Belial with twin lightning claws, 2 with twin lightning claws, 2 with thunder hammers and storm shields, 1 with twin lightning claws and the Company banner (+1 attack for each squad member. Belial with 6 attacks on the charge!! Win!!)

The first squad usually operates as a shooting squad. 4 storm bolters and an assault cannon are going to hurt something. Also, as a troops choice, it's a great unit to park on an objective. There they can still shoot and be useful, and their 2+ save means that not much is going to move them.

The second squad usually works as an assault unit or as a counter-charge unit. I find the mix of thunder hammers and lightning claws works well against both anti-infantry and anti-tank/monstrous creature. (If you see you'll need the thunder hammers, just alocate wounds on a lightning claw instead). The banner bearer also makes sure that the thunder hammers do some proper damage with 4 attacks each on the charge.

Hope this helps. Now go forth and kill things in the name of the Inner Circle!!!


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## Don_Keyballs

*Pure Deathwing vs Chaos (Need advice)*

I'm going to do up a unit by unit breakdown of DA. When I have the time... this thread needs to be more helpful.


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