# Few points/questions on Nemesis (Spoilers)



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

So due to the mail going completely fubar on me i've only just got round to reading and finishing Nemesis. So few things.

Kell and the marines he has assassinated before, seemed to leave it massively vague, of course it might have been suring those 2 years of the heresy previous to the time of the book, but a few people i've talked about it with like to think its another nudge about the 2 missing Legions. I'm not so sure, like i said it could easily have taken place after the heresy had begun, did seem a bit deliberatly cryptic though, who knows.

Little mention of M'Shen, nothing massive of course, i'm just a bit of a sucker for the little easter eggs and notes in the books there for people who already have a good account of the lore.

Malcador being the Master Assassin. Quite liked that little touch myself, definetly adds a bit more to his character and how he opperated.

Assassins in general, would quite like another few books on the assassins, thoroughly enjoyed the banter and remarks between them. The Garantine and Koynes sarcastic comments and jibes being some of the best. "Must have lost my invite" was my particular favourite. Some people i've seen didnt like the recruitment 'missions' of each assassin, i quite like them though, added a bit more to the characters and it was just a good read.

I will agree with some peoples complaints about the investigation sub plot though. Yes it was relevant to a degree to give a bit more scare to Spear and show how he got his current disguise, but the other characters, Daig springs to mind the most just seem pointless, especially the way he just.....died with no real impact at all to the story.

On a similar note did anyone else find Jennikers death a bit too sudden and anti-climactic? Just seemed so random to have her killed by a random peice of bone shot in a hurry from Spear. Tariel died almost exactly as i expected he would, it was literally the precise way i thought it would happen, one moment holed up in his hide, gets spooked and ends up running straight into Spear, although i had wished he would have just run away after the grenade. Kell's apparent death was pretty anti-climactic aswell, just piloting his ship in a rather futile effort straight into the vengeful spirit. Why didn't he just stay on the surface and wait for Horus to come down?

Few other points i was going to raise but have for now forgotten. End of the day though i enjoyed the book alot. Yes it was a filler, but it was never going to be anything else, we all knew neither sides assassins would suceed, but it was just interesting to see how it played out and what the post-istvaan imperium was like. Like others have said though you could easily fit pretty much the same story into current 40k. Either way i liked it


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> So due to the mail going completely fubar on me i've only just got round to reading and finishing Nemesis. So few things.
> 
> Kell and the marines he has assassinated before, seemed to leave it massively vague, of course it might have been suring those 2 years of the heresy previous to the time of the book, but a few people i've talked about it with like to think its another nudge about the 2 missing Legions. I'm not so sure, like i said it could easily have taken place after the heresy had begun, did seem a bit deliberatly cryptic though, who knows.


He is likely talking about other Traitor Legions. Remember this is set in the Age of Darkness, so its probable that the Assassins have been fighting the traitor astartes for some time now.



Angel of Blood said:


> On a similar note did anyone else find Jennikers death a bit too sudden and anti-climactic? Just seemed so random to have her killed by a random peice of bone shot in a hurry from Spear. Tariel died almost exactly as i expected he would, it was literally the precise way i thought it would happen, one moment holed up in his hide, gets spooked and ends up running straight into Spear, although i had wished he would have just run away after the grenade. Kell's apparent death was pretty anti-climactic aswell, just piloting his ship in a rather futile effort straight into the vengeful spirit. Why didn't he just stay on the surface and wait for Horus to come down?


I felt her death was quite good. Just when you think they may make it she dies, and passes her mission onto Kell. Tariel's death was quite fitting. As for Kell his death was a symbol, Horus was never going to land on Dagonet, he sent Sedirae instead and he died for it, so the world would feel the wrath of Horus. Kell knew that Horus would not come down so he went to him, it was futile but a symbol that they will oppose Horus at every step.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

I believe Kell is talking to the Eversor when he digresses that he has slain an Astartes before? Now, considering the context of this happening, it is viable Kell was spinning a lie to the highly gullable and hormone-drugged Eversor, who -quite simply- wanted to rend ceramite and score flesh. So, again, before we throw ourselves into self-proposed conclusions whilst viewing this extract, the personnalities of both Kell and... Garantine, alongside the context and other orientations _must_ be taken into consideration. The Horus Heresy is a well of allegory, very rarely is it merely: Black and white.

However, preffering simple explanations and irritating little tidbits of juiciest lexis, myself, I will side with Lord of the Night, and rammify the theory that Kell must have taken part within a successful mission against one of the Traitor Legions post-Isstvan V and prior to the current events set within _Nemesis_.

Personnally, I found Jenniker _and_ Iota's deaths both vague and lacking of detail. Such said I like to think of the Assassin's bred -if not vat-grown- within the Assassin Clades to be _truly_ heartless proffessionals, with all manner of memory-swipes, cyber-augmentations and_ Neuromancer_-esque gagetry, so Swallow's... less ''hardcore'' varients, presented within Nemesis was the overused and cliched ''meh'' at best. I utterly adored the deaths of both the Callidus and Vanus; very fitting and Kell's final judgement/hit upon Spear was a reckoning that drew the book up from mediocre to rather exemplary.

But... Really the sheer idiocy that was Sedirae's ''proxy'' for Horus Lupercal is beyond comprehension. How the proverbial fuck that could successfully swuade incredibly experienced, trained and augmented (Hence my earlier point) Assassin's is stupid, for want of a better word.

Still, I liked _Nemesis_ but by the Gods I am glad something that is the eptiome of the ''Horus Heresy'' is out in November! :angel:


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Tariel lists the kill to Valdor when he first meets him, he's reeling off names and when he gets to Brother-Captain- Valdor cuts him off. Like i said i assumed it to be a traitor legionaire, but just pointing out some people are pointing to it being pre-heresy. I still think traitor but meh. 

Oh Tariels death fitted him perfectly, just a little predictable.

Horus did land on Dagonet, he has his convesation with Erebus and co. on it. The Sedirae thing bothered me a little aswell, would it really killed them to have waited literally a second longer to get visual ID on his face


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

The small discussion regarding Kell having taken down an Astartes before struck me as it having occured prior to the Heresy and Isstvan. Why else would he have hesitated and discontinued the conversation? If it was a Traitor Astartes surely he would have gladly flaunted it infront of his rival assassins. This is just how it came across to me, may not be the case though. 

After all, out of all the Astartes Legions there is bound to have been at least one dangerous or highly unruly Astartes Brother-Captain that needed taking out on the quiet for committing some form of offense.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The small discussion regarding Kell having taken down an Astartes before struck me as it having occured prior to the Heresy and Isstvan. Why else would he have hesitated and discontinued the conversation? If it was a Traitor Astartes surely he would have gladly flaunted it infront of his rival assassins. This is just how it came across to me, may not be the case though.
> 
> After all, out of all the Astartes Legions there is bound to have been at least one dangerous or highly unruly Astartes Brother-Captain that needed taking out on the quiet for committing some form of offense.


I'm not saying that it couldn't have related to a post-Istvaan event, but as COTE says (above) it could equally be a pre-Heresy incident (and i strongly doubt it would be a 'lost legion' thing) such as one of the many Thousand Sons, pre-primarch finding, mutation incidents.


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