# Are Warp Spiders Worth it ?????



## Rayza (Mar 3, 2009)

ive been coming up with my army list 

and ive had 
swooping hawks
shining spears

for my fast attack 

an i dont't know if i should include warp spiders 
are they actually any good 
is it worth it - Please put a little effort into your posts. Proper punctuation is a good place to start. - Katie D


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

No, they are not.


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## Rayza (Mar 3, 2009)

Orochi said:


> No, they are not.


so what should i get instead then


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

I would use swooping Hawks either.

Fire Drargons/Scorpions in a Wave Serpent cause more of a dent than Hawks or Spiders.

Avengers in a Wave Serpent can hold an objective aswell.


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## Rayza (Mar 3, 2009)

Orochi said:


> I would use swooping Hawks either.
> 
> Fire Drargons/Scorpions in a Wave Serpent cause more of a dent than Hawks or Spiders.
> 
> Avengers in a Wave Serpent can hold an objective aswell.


ive got all them mate 
its a 3000 point list do you want me to send it you in a message an tell me what to get instead of warp spider


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

I'd pick shining spears over Warpspiders.

You have Fire Dragons to bust tanks, so use the Shining spears to deliver break Assaults.

Now, What is a break assault?

Well, you keep your Spears back, preferably behind cover. If an Enemy gets to Close/Flanks you, use the Spears to crash into them and drive them off/hold them up.

Warpspiders can do this, but nowhere near as well.

3K points is a big game, So keeping Spears out of sight until later on, they can also be used to help Dislodge enemies from objectives.

If Spiders could capture objectives, then they would be worth it, but as they can, they are a Offensive unit, and they dont really manage that to well.

However, if you are playing Orks, I would give the Spiders a run. As armour isnt something that orks have much of.


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## Rayza (Mar 3, 2009)

Orochi said:


> I'd pick shining spears over Warpspiders.
> 
> You have Fire Dragons to bust tanks, so use the Shining spears to deliver break Assaults.
> 
> ...



so should i get another unit of spears


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

I would say yes, as in under 2k, one unit is enough.

but 3k, they maybe required to charge 2 - 3 times.

10 Shining spears (inc 2 Exarchs with Star lance) translates to

16 Str 6 + 6 Str 8 power weapn attacks on the Charge.


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## Rayza (Mar 3, 2009)

i have one equipet with a power weapon as if my charge gets bogged down i can handle myself 
as i got bogged down by orks in a 1500 game an my shining spears got bogged down an killed 
so i may have one exarch with power weapon and one with star lance


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## Sandytrain (Apr 11, 2009)

Whats this about warp spider not being worth it? It all in your list that decides whether warp spiders are worth or not. You can make the same argument virtually against every eldar unit. Three main ways to use Warp spiders:

1. Tank Hunters. Str 6 devastates AV10.
2. Assassination. Str 6 insta-kills humans and other Eldar.
3. Hit and run. Come close, assault, run away.

That extrz movement in assault phase helps. To be fair I Would have to see you entire list to see if they are worth it or not.


But if you are already set on shining spears then I will tell you a bit of strategy for them. Always run them with withdraw! They purely suck in cc for more than one turn. And having an autarch in there with them makes them a uber unit. So...

5 shining spears/exarch/withdraw and
1 autarch/jetbike/mandi/laser lance/fusion gun

Not only does adding the autarch add more attacks but it also give you unit more durability while being shot at. Always take wounds on the autarch for the lasting effect.


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

2 Spears units running together w/ 2 star lances would hurt things enough to not have to worry about much retaliation. With Hit and Run they'd live a while longer. I have seen Spiders cause a lot of hurt against TEQ and weaker.


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## Dragannia (May 12, 2008)

Personally, I love Spiders. For anti-tank there are better, but Spiders can deep strike and therefore they don't need an expensive tank to escort them. If you really want them for AT, bring an Autarch, give him a Fusion Gun and pop tanks with them, dancing out of range with that second move. 

However, their main strength is the huge amount of shots at high strength. With a double Death Spinner, a full squad unloading deals roughly 13 or so wounds against T3 or T4, and 10 or so wounds against T5, and 8 or so wounds against T6. You have a good chance of bringing down a monstrous creature with one salvo, and takes out perhaps 4 MEQs a turn, or 2 TEQs. Compare with Dark Reapers who may take out 4 or 5 MEQs a turn with a EML and Fast Shot, or 3 Warwalkers with 6x Scatter Lasers, who deal similar amounts of damage (10 wounds on T3 or 4) but have far less mobility.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I LIKE Spiders, but am not convinced if they're good outside of Apocalypse. As for Spears, my blog (click link in sig, mind war ftw) contains a detailed analysis too long to repeat in this thread. Spiders main drawback, for me is the ability to kill themselves, and this is a cost War Walkers don't have, as well as being cheaper.


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## Bolshavic (Dec 8, 2008)

Warp spiders 1 of my mandatory choices in my eldar, as many as I can field.
They may not be a game winning unit that u can use with out a care in the world but simple fact str6 basically equals 1hit 1wound or tank killer on rear armour of most MBTs, the high rate of fire means u kill alot of horde type armies or force MEQ forces to make more saving throws= more failed saves.

Also do you know how annoying it is to have a unit that can jump out fire, jump away into cover on the flanks and repeat. In the end the opponent has to change his plan to eliminate this threat or just grin and take the casualties, either way very good for you.
and a 6" move in assault is okay but not great still puts u in range for a counter assault.


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## Daal-En (Apr 7, 2009)

Orochi said:


> I'd pick shining spears over Warpspiders.
> 
> You have Fire Dragons to bust tanks, so use the Shining spears to deliver break Assaults.
> 
> ...


I find these very useful points, especially as they highlight considerations that weren't relevant when I last played regularly (3rd Ed), and made great use of Warp Spiders in exactly the way outlined above. That was, of course, in a context in which (a) Spiders were scoring units (although I tended to use them for clearing rather than holding objectives), and (b) Spears were unplayable (no power weapon attacks, 50pts a model, no Withdraw). 

I've got a full Spider squad in my own list and plan to try it out (hopefully this week) - I see a role for them as screening troops, as a large squad with 3+ saves provides good cover for advancing Avengers while being fast enough to allow the Avengers to run as fast as they like behind them. Not having any Spears, I may also play them in the old-fashioned way - and however you look at it, Spiders are still more resilient than Spears (who you can't always keep out of sight, and who are pretty much bound to lose models when they assault - reducing their effectiveness drastically with every kill since some twit forgot to give them shuriken pistols for the extra attack for the second edition running).

Phil


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## Daal-En (Apr 7, 2009)

Sandytrain said:


> Whats this about warp spider not being worth it? It all in your list that decides whether warp spiders are worth or not. You can make the same argument virtually against every eldar unit. Three main ways to use Warp spiders:
> 
> 1. Tank Hunters. Str 6 devastates AV10.
> 2. Assassination. Str 6 insta-kills humans and other Eldar.
> ...


Good advice generally, but on the Autarch I'd query the fusion gun, as he's on a bike with 12" range weapons and has a laser lance shot - if you want to give him a ranged weapon rather than boost his close combat attacks further with a shuripistol, why not a Reaper launcher? Remember the Autarch as a unit counts as a jetbike when he's mounted, so he counts as relentless whether the heavy weapon is in his hands or mounted on the bike.

Phil


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## Daal-En (Apr 7, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> I LIKE Spiders, but am not convinced if they're good outside of Apocalypse. As for Spears, my blog (click link in sig, mind war ftw) contains a detailed analysis too long to repeat in this thread. Spiders main drawback, for me is the ability to kill themselves, and this is a cost War Walkers don't have, as well as being cheaper.


This seems a curious argument. War Walkers don't have the *option* to bounce at all, whatever the risk. Spiders do. Just because they have the option, you aren't obliged to use it every turn - and on average, they'll have one self-inflicted fatality in a six-turn game if they *do* use it every turn. Plasma guns have the option of killing themselves, but that never stopped anyone using them. 

You seem to be arguing that you're wary of Spiders because they have an ability other units don't - as I say, this seems a bit curious.

As for Walkers, they may be cheaper, but are also much less resilient than 10 Sv3+ models that can stay out of sight a lot more easily.

Phil


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Daal-En said:


> This seems a curious argument. War Walkers don't have the *option* to bounce at all, whatever the risk. Spiders do. Just because they have the option, you aren't obliged to use it every turn - and on average, they'll have one self-inflicted fatality in a six-turn game if they *do* use it every turn. Plasma guns have the option of killing themselves, but that never stopped anyone using them.
> 
> You seem to be arguing that you're wary of Spiders because they have an ability other units don't - as I say, this seems a bit curious.
> 
> ...


Walkers ability to outflank is equivalent to Spiders Deep Strike, or at least close enough to be comparable, and with the unpredictability of Spiders' movement they're a bit random. I haven't yet tried them yet in 5th, mostly due to the cost of both models and points. I feel comparing them to Plasma is unfair, as Plasma weapons fairly guarantee even a TEQ kill, but Spiders struggle against MEQs and better. As for being more resilient...Against S6 and above weapons, Spiders are far better than Walkers, but against S5 down...? I'm not so sure. Obviously you can't stop a Spider moving or firing, but you're more likely to wound at these S levels than you are to glance/penetrate a Walker.

Still, you've made some other excellent points, I just wanted to try and explain my initial feeling.


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## Rayza (Mar 3, 2009)

well i have heard that shining spears arent very good in ordianry games only apocolypse 
is this true


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