# Blissgiver Daemon CCW is the best?



## Nurglizer (Feb 8, 2010)

I was looking at the CSM codex for the cheapest HQ, and noticed if you run a Chaos Lord with Mark of Slaanesh and Daemon Weapon (Blissgiver) it is 135 points. The Blissgiver causes instant death on all wounds, regardless of toughness, plus you get an extra D6 attacks (unless you roll a 1). Basically, anyone he gets into close combat with is going to die unless I roll a 1, or they get a lot of Invulnerable saves. Also, he is usually going to attack first with an Initiative of 6. 

Has anyone seen this used?


----------



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Nurglizer said:


> I was looking at the CSM codex for the cheapest HQ, and noticed if you run a Chaos Lord with Mark of Slaanesh and Daemon Weapon (Blissgiver) it is 135 points. The Blissgiver causes instant death on all wounds, regardless of toughness, plus you get an extra D6 attacks (unless you roll a 1). Basically, anyone he gets into close combat with is going to die unless I roll a 1, or they get a lot of Invulnerable saves. Also, he is usually going to attack first with an Initiative of 6.
> 
> Has anyone seen this used?


It would generally be considered the best I think. 

I actually did a tactica (available to read in the Chaos section) that explains that compared to all the other characters Kharn, Typhus or Ahriman, only the Slannesh HQ with Blissgiver trumps the named character (in this case Lucius).

The whole problem with the entire codex is that your competitively probably way better off with a Daemon Prince.

However I have used Blissgiver on a Champion a few times and their are only two main problems with it.

1. The General Independent Character ruling, which means your champion can be cut down before using it. This is usually lessened with Slannesh's higher initiative and is more a general problem with all independent characters.

2. Your only Strength 4 so unfortunately alot of things (for example MC's) are pretty tough to actually wound.


Other than that your are probably correct that of all the Daemon Weapons this one is best, with the Nurgle Manreaper coming a close second IMO.

Hope that helps.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Against certain armies, it is ok. Units like Paladins and Thunderwolves suffer from it due to a general lack of invulnerable saves, as well as Tyranid monstrous creatures. Personally, i find the Plaguebringer is the best daemon weapon, with the ability to re-roll on failed rolls to wound if your strength is equal to or higher than that of the enemy.


----------



## CE5511 (Apr 16, 2011)

The setup works nicely if you get it right. I mean throwing him with some bodies and get the charge on the right enemy unit. You really can't expect to throw him against a monsterous creature and get the instakill, figure you still have to get the wound roll on them. But works great against most non MC HQ characters.
Honestly though I've used the nurgle wepon to much better effect as it wounds anything on a 4+.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Wrong. The Anathema is the best Daemon Weapon.

But in TT, I think that Slaanesh is probably one the most powerful, along with Nurgle and Undivided.

Midnight


----------



## Madden (Jan 22, 2012)

I don't use DP's so slaanesh bliss giver is good and chews though nob squads really easily I also use the khorn bloodfeeder, sure you double the chance to hurt yourself but getting up to 18 power weapon attacks on the charge at s5 is a blender(I use a jugger for the extra str & attack).


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Kharn > any possible layout of Chaos Lord.

But sure, if I were to use one, it might be with Blissgiver, or probably Manreaper, as I have a model already thusly equipped from the previous edition.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Kharn > any possible layout of Chaos Lord.
> 
> But sure, if I were to use one, it might be with Blissgiver, or probably Manreaper, as I have a model already thusly equipped from the previous edition.


:goodpost:

But I wish I could buy a Manreaper on *my* Chaos Lord...

Midnight


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I wish my Chaos Lord had a 3++ save or at least EW too. A Thunderwolf Space Puppy can get both and be at, what, str 6 with the PW Frostblade and Storm Shield. Fuck us.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> I wish my Chaos Lord had a 3++ save or at least EW too. A Thunderwolf Space Puppy can get both and be at, what, str 6 with the PW Frostblade and Storm Shield. Fuck us.


Nah, leave the 3++ to marines, give me a 4++ and access to the 3.5 ed daemonic gifts any day.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Hrmm, I think that not having access to a 3++ would be very detrimental to CSM, not least as MoT models already do... :wink:


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Hrmm, I think that not having access to a 3++ would be very detrimental to CSM, not least as MoT models already do... :wink:


The best invulnerable save in the codex is currently 4++


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Thousand Sons?


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

3+/ 4++ with AP3 bolters, not a single 3++ in sight. If they were 3++ i would definitely consider using them.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

My apologies. I dunno if I mixed them with their previous incarnation, or LotD. Either way, a 3++ is massively better than a 4++, and I'd certainly like to see it as possibility in the next CSM book. What's the Despoiler's Invul?


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Abby has a 4+ invul, which he uses to protect himself from poking his eye out with Drach'nyen more than in combat. I would like to see Kharn, Abby and lucius have a 3+ invul in combat, and Ahriman should just have a 3++ all the time.


----------



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Kharn with a 3+inv? With his stats? No.

Now a 4+ inv would be nice, in fact I would fully support his current 5+ if he had eternal warrior.....which he should kinda have anyways due to literally being brought back from the dead.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Yeah, Kharn's 5++ with no EW is rather sadface as is, he'll need a bit of a boost next book. Especially, as you say, it makes so little sense.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

I was thinking a 3++ for Kharn in combat only, keep his 5++ normally. Though a 4++ in combat and Eternal Warrior would also be acceptable.


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Every chaos special character should have EW going by fluff alone. When the current codex was released, EW was sparse, now its handed out like theres a sale at walmart or something.


----------



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

mcmuffin said:


> I was thinking a 3++ for Kharn in combat only, keep his 5++ normally. Though a 4++ in combat and Eternal Warrior would also be acceptable.


Kinda like what they did with DE CC units... I could see that. Mind you if they went that route I could see the inv only applying in CC.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> Kinda like what they did with DE CC units... I could see that. Mind you if they went that route I could see the inv only applying in CC.


That would be fine, no invul then a 3++ in combat, or make Kharn WS 9, because, lets be honest, how in the name of fuck are tactical marines hitting him on 4s, how can anyone get a hit when he is swinging Gorechild around like a maniac. That brings up another point, Why is the Kharn's axe, which is meant to be 3 spans across, smaller than a normal berzerker axe? Lucius deserves a 4+ invul due to speed (think ragnar) Abaddon really should have a 3++, but it would be fine if he kept his 4++ and lost the poke in the eye on a 1 daemon weapon. Fabius bile should be Strength and toughness 6 with fell no pain, that would be fine, huron, well he needs a total rules overhaul.


----------



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Or at least do something to make taking bile or lucious make sense. I don't thing they so much need a general stat buff as specialization. 

For example each HQ should due something different for your army. Typhush should be anti horde with his stats and rule reflecting that, for instance keep him immune to instant death give him a flat extra attack for every enemy in base combat and a base attack profile of 4. Then leave him with nugles rot, give him a static re-roll to wound and drop his points. Then bam you have a character that will protect you terminators from swarms of crap inatry, while not wasting points by multi-tasking (Really the poison is nice, but its useless considering how easy it is for MC's to gimp him -wasted points-)

Make lucious the dedicated anti-HQ/elite HQ, with only a static profile of 5A not counting charge, and with a bunch of rules that help him take down the best of the best, but suffer against MC/walkers/swarms. Stuff like having him be count as I8 or reduce the enemies I by 2-3. Also give him a good inv save that will help him against power weapons, but not against 30+ marines 3+ in CC would do nicly. However keep him at T4 with eternal warrior. 

Kharn should be the guy you throw at MC's, walkers, and calgars. Keep him St6 on the charge and hitting like a MC, and drop his A to 4. Give him eternal warrior and a 4+ inv in CC only. Also give him preferred enemy...everyone. Their now you have a guy that would kill any HQ in a single round of CC, but will get smacked around like a child if he gets drug down by 15 genestealers.

Their now rather then having a bunch of HQ's that due the same damn job just for less or more points you have specialists that would actually see table use, and with lower costs due to not trying to be Swiss army knives of CC.


----------



## zacktheRipper (Jan 23, 2012)

The Blissgiver is best yes...but..

..i've always wanted to take a Tzeentch Deathscreamer just for lolz. X) It looks incredibly enjoyable.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

I actually did up a set of rules for lucius. Basically, he substitutes his base attack number with the highest weapon skill of the models in base to base contact with him. That way, if he is coming up against something like Space marine captain, he will have 6 attacks plus his bonuses for charging etc, but he must always allocate his attacks to an IC if possible. But if he is contact with hordes of WS 3-4 dudes, he will be bogged down.


----------



## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

zacktheRipper said:


> The Blissgiver is best yes...but..
> 
> ..i've always wanted to take a Tzeentch Deathscreamer just for lolz. X) It looks incredibly enjoyable.


I use the tzeentch deathscreamer regularly. It can be very impressive. I run a lord, mot, deathscreamer and a combimelta. Attach this guy to 7 chosen with 3 plasmaguns in a rhino. You can disembark and fire d6 st4 apt shots with 10 st8 ap2 shots also. Takes down demonprinces and mc's like they are nothing. Then mount up and piss off. It has worked out very well for me so far.


----------



## zacktheRipper (Jan 23, 2012)

Wow lol that is actually a great strategy..I hadn't thought of that. X)


----------

