# Eldar confirmed next week



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

https://youtu.be/BlpSuFZvC8g

well if there was any doubt...


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

I guess the flame in the darkness will be all the new celdar codices burned in rage by the deluded cheese spammers :biggrin:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

looks like the rumours of a saim hann codex might have some truth to them if the video is a clue.


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## Nacho libre (Feb 23, 2013)

I was starting to get used to not seeing space elf codices on the shelves of my local shop haha.

Nah I'm glad that they have it back again.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i hope its a significant release and not just a bike kit and a codex , dont get me wrong anything is gravy, but i would dearly like to see some more plastic infantry for the eldar at some point, so why not now?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

There's an Avatar page on the redirect thingy which would be cool - if he's a huge Forge World-style guy, that'd be *awesome*, although he'd better get some beefier rules if that's the case...


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## mayegelt (Mar 18, 2014)

MidnightSun said:


> There's an Avatar page on the redirect thingy which would be cool - if he's a huge Forge World-style guy, that'd be *awesome*, although he'd better get some beefier rules if that's the case...


Not if the new BloodThirsters were anything to go by. Larger and prettier model, but nothing magically delicious about them.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Ah well, another giant beautiful piece of missile bait. Shame.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Avatars used to be brick hard, really does need a new model and rules and weapon options and his cloak back, cloaks are cool


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

But not as cool as bow ties. Or a fez......


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

or roller discos...............


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> i hope its a significant release and not just a bike kit and a codex , dont get me wrong anything is gravy, but i would dearly like to see some more plastic infantry for the eldar at some point, so why not now?


Well unless their codex is going to soft cover, it's a new codex release.


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## Roganzar (Feb 16, 2014)

Tawa said:


> But not as cool as bow ties. Or a fez......


Thanks Tawa, now all I can see when I look at an Avatar is bow tie and jaunty fez on him. LOL


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Via Warseer 04-13-2015

from over on Dakka
Squidmanlolz wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
Pricing leaked for first wavecodex craftworld eldar 58.00
datacards 12.50
windriders 41.00
farseer skyrunner 33.00
autarch 26.00
shining spears 50.00
autarch skyrunner 33.00
codex fancy edition 165.00Source?
Prices are usually leaked as scans, aren’t they?
prices in U.S. dollars reportedly from a sales rep










via atia 4-13-2015 (from spikey bitz)

Eldar Release
Minis coming:

- Codex Eldar: Craftworlds
– Codex Eldar: Craftworlds eBook
- Plastic Autarch clampack
– Windriders Jetbikes / Shining Spears combo-box
– Autarch/Warlock/Farseer Skyrunner combo-box
– Datacards: Craftworlds
– web paint bundles for: Biel-Tan, Ultwe, Saim-Hann, Iyanden and Alaitoc
– Windrider host web bundle


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

via Morachi on Warseer
I saw the WD with my own eyes, couldn't take a photo sorry guys... the Ltd Ed set is gorgeous and it is indeed a 160 page book


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Quite likely we will see the leaks today then


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)




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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

Rumors (and my own mindset) suggests that the new codex is called Craftworlds just because a lot of the factions are being rebranded. Not that it's a supplement. Because we have DE, Harlies, and now 'Craftworld' Eldar, they're trying to use Eldar as an overlying title. Much like the most recent BA codex mentioned 'Astartes' in the title, iirc.

The Skyrunner/Sunweaver (I've heard both now) sounds like it will be some sort of Special Character chariot. I've also heard that the Spears/Windriders are a multi kit... AND I've heard different prices, suggesting a Windrider kit + more finecast Spears. I'm hoping for the multi kit.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Roganzar said:


> Thanks Tawa, now all I can see when I look at an Avatar is bow tie and jaunty fez on him. LOL


I aim to please..... :laugh:


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Prices usually leak as screenshots, or photos of computer screens.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Not too bad I say. Not great either though, the Guardian Eldar don't have enough real detail to be awesome.


LotN


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

New bikes finally though, eh? :good:


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

The one at the back has a Scatter Laser underslung instead of Shuriken Catapults which is pretty bonkers. If they get access to all the Eldar Heavy Weapons we might see them as large fighting units rather than 3-man squads to cap objectives more often.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

> Apply salt where necessary folks…
> 
> Early Breaking WD tidbits Via Warseer
> 
> ...


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Wraithknights have access to Strength D shooting and I5 melee, now? Good grief. Well, Knights were fun, but they've had their day, I suppose.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Yeah, those underpowered bastards. Maaaaybe they'll strike at I1 like the Dthirster, but probably not. No more poison or instant death, if they're gargantuan..


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## Asamodai (Oct 19, 2008)

New Jetbikes are cool but not surprising. Look very similar to Sky Weavers (which is absolutely fine). Not a fan of the Autarch. I actually prefer the pose on the old winged one.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Lord of the Night said:


> Not too bad I say. Not great either though, the Guardian Eldar don't have enough real detail to be awesome.
> 
> 
> LotN


You say that but one of those bikes has a pretty awesome bit of detail on it that nobody has mentioned. ...look closely


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> You say that but one of those bikes has a pretty awesome bit of detail on it that nobody has mentioned. ...look closely


...scatter laser? Oh dear.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Mossy Toes said:


> ...scatter laser? Oh dear.


Bingo!


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## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Wall of stuff from Faeit 212



> via Mr Maloke on Warseer
> "scatter lasers now lost the twin linking bonus
> however. windriders can now get scatter lasers. (each model can change the TL shuriken catapult for either scatter laser or shuriken cannon)"
> 
> ...


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Damn, I bet _nobody_ is going to take jetbikes any more. :laugh:


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

well, so much for the "nerf codex"


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Are they fucking serious.
27 pts, troop, obsec, eldar jetbike, 3+ save, 3+ jink. 4 Str6 shots each.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

neferhet said:


> Are they fucking serious.
> 27 pts, troop, obsec, eldar jetbike, 3+ save, 3+ jink. 4 Str6 shots each.


to be honest with a kit such as the jet bike you need a reason to justify updating it, making it awesome is an easy way to do it.


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

not seen these pop up yet


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

bitsandkits said:


> you need a reason to justify updating it, making it awesome is an easy way to do it.


awesome i can live with..but game breaking..no. I can see the next tourney winner. a jetseer 6 jetbikes units with scatlas, 2 wraithknights with d cannons. say hello and pack your minis. I am NOT amused at all by this. It's basically a fuck you to every gamer and hobbyst. A step back from the "balanced" dexes we where given until now (bar the necrons)


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

kickboxerdog said:


> not seen these pop up yet


previous page dude


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

So there's a video review of the new White Dwarf out. Sadly, I can't find it on FB now that I've read it. But here's what I remember. And I'll say I'm bias'd to Saim Hann, so I paid most attention there.

You already know that every bike can take a Scatter Laser or Shuricannon. Scatter Laser has lost laser lock, but otherwise everything is the same. Points, etc. You can theoretically have 11 bikes in a squad, since the Warlock is not upgrading one.

The new 'Decurion' is called a Warhost. There are three options for Core. One is infantry based, using Guardians. Another one (I think) let you go with Spirit Seers and Wraiths. The final one is a Windrider Host, requiring one Farseer, one 'Warlock Coven', up to 3 Windrider Squads, and 1 Vyper Squadron.

Vypers are the new Tomb Blades. Every Core formation had one squad of Vypers.

For every Core Formation you could take up to 3 HQ Formations. One gave you access to Autarchs OR Phoenix Lords (meaning up to 3 PLs or 3 Autarchs per Core, or any combo), or a Farseer Conclave, which was 1 Farseer and some Warlocks, OR some of the special characters that didn't fit in the other two slots.

Finally, Aux Formations. One of them was 1 unit of Rangers. Another was THREE Crimson Hunters. There was one with Spirit Seers and Wraiths. Another with 0-1 of two types of tanks. EDIT: This is also where you got your Aspect Warriors, in 1-3 squad groups.

They have not mentioned the benefits of the Warhost, or the Formations.

Other things to note: The Wraithknight is now a Gargantuan Creature, and his Cannons and Glaive are Destroyer Weapons for him. They also infer Initiative 1, because the new Bloodthirsters went before him.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

neferhet said:


> awesome i can live with..but game breaking..no. I can see the next tourney winner. a jetseer 6 jetbikes units with scatlas, 2 wraithknights with d cannons. say hello and pack your minis. I am NOT amused at all by this. It's basically a fuck you to every gamer and hobbyst. A step back from the "balanced" dexes we where given until now (bar the necrons)


yeah but they are eldar and are supposed to break the game and fuck everyone, eldar are better than you:grin:


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

bitsandkits said:


> yeah but they are eldar and are supposed to break the game and fuck everyone, eldar are better than you


:laugh: damn you!


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Well done Gents, that's a whopping four pages into an Eldar thread before someone says game-breaking,
that's got to be a record....................


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

I dunno about game breaking, but clearly a very powerful troops choice for their cost. Better than any choices I have. I'm not even mad, my rage is reserved for stupid updates or lackthereof in my army.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)




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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


>


Bless you.....


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## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Am I missing something? Are we sure windriders have 3+ and a 3+ jink?


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Bindi Baji said:


> Well done Gents, that's a whopping four pages into an Eldar thread before someone says game-breaking,
> that's got to be a record....................


Thanks  I really don't know how to say that differently. It seems that the codex that needs the more rule-pushing-purchase is the eldar codex...



The Sturk said:


> Am I missing something? Are we sure windriders have 3+ and a 3+ jink?


sorry, 4+ cover, 3+ armour,


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

The new Eldar 'Warhost' (Decurion)

To start, you must take between 1-3 'Guardian Hosts' (one of these 3):

Guardian Battlehost: 
1 Farseer, 3 Guardian Defender Squads, 1 Vyper Squad, 1 War Walker Squad, 1 Vaul's Wrath Support battery, 0-1 Warlock Conclave

Windrider Host: 
1 Farseer, 1 Warlock Conclave, 3 Windrider Squads, 1 Vyper Squadron

Guardian Stormhost:
1 Farseer, 3 Storm Guardian Squads, 1 Vyper Squadron, 1 War Walker squadron, 1 Vaul's Wrath Support battery, 0-1 Warlock Conclave

Then, for every 'Guardian Host' you take, you can have 0-3 of the Command Formations:

Heroes of the Craftworld: 
1 Autarch, or Eldred, or Prince Yriel, or Illic Nightspear

Seers Council:
2 Farseers (1 may be replaced with Eldrad) AND 1 Warlock's Conclave

Living Legends:
1 Avatar, or one of the Phoenix Lords

For each 'Guardian Host' you take, you can also add 1-12 Auxillary Formations:

Outcasts:
1 Ranger squad

Crimson Death:
3 Crimson Hunters

Aspect Host:
3 Units in any combination of Dire Avengers, Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Swooping Hawks, Shining Spears, Warp Spiders or Dark Reapers

Dire Avenger Shrine:
3 Units of Dire Avengers

Wraith-Constructs:
1 Hemlock, Wraithlord or Wraithknight

Wraith Host:
1 Spiritseer, 3 Wraithguard/Wraithblades (mix and match), 1 Wraithlord, 1 Wraithknight

Engines of Vaul:
1 Nightspinner, Fire Prism or Falcon 



All of the above is directly from the WD. Also, the benefit for running a 'Craftworld Warhost' is something called 'Matchless Agility'. Described in the WD as 'they are able to move faster and more surely than ever before'.

Now, my ASSUMPTION is that 'Wraith Host', 'Crimson Death', 'Aspect Host', and all of the Core/Command formations will also get their own bonus, to make you want to play, for instance, 3 Crimson Hunters (since you can't play less outside of another Detachment.


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

neferhet said:


> Are they fucking serious.
> 27 pts, troop, obsec, eldar jetbike, 3+ save, 3+ jink. 4 Str6 shots each.


Jesus fucking Christ. And with that died any hope I had of GW addressing the balance of 40k. To paraphrase:

"At least Games Workshop are starting as they mean to go on; with a hose on the exhaust pipe and a brick on the accelerator."


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Burning Brand of Skalathrax and a couple of Baledrakes, I'm not super afraid of the jetbikes. They're still really good though.


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## Roganzar (Feb 16, 2014)

Deus Mortis said:


> "At least Games Workshop are starting as they mean to go on; with a hose on the exhaust pipe and a brick on the accelerator."


LOLOLOLOLO:laugh:

Guess I should look more closely at that Icarus Array on the Onager. And maybe get one or two.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

venomlust said:


> Burning Brand of Skalathrax and a couple of Baledrakes, I'm not super afraid of the jetbikes. They're still really good though.


Yeah, and you kill 10 roughly (370 pts,) assuming you happen to start first and your drakes are already on the board and can draw a line of sight to the bikes...things that are not going to always be true. Then the other 20 jump in and take down you lord with baleflamer and one of your drakes with sheer volume of shots. Discounting any psychic buff, of course. Really venomlust, you can't beat that point for point. really. 6 units of 5 scatterlaser jetbikers: 1110 pts. 120 str6 shots a turn, on a jetbike. seriously. heldrakes are the only thing we have left on the board by turn 3.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

We'll see. I may never even play against them.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

neferhet said:


> 6 units of 5 scatterlaser jetbikers: 1110 pts. 120 str6 shots a turn, on a jetbike. seriously. heldrakes are the only thing we have left on the board by turn 3.


Now now, I'm sure some of those will be Shuriken Cannons with only 1 or 2 Scatter Lasers, to rend 2+s to death.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Then you end up losing anyway to the guy who brought land raiders :grin:
For about the same points you could bring 2 baledrakes and 6 x 5 man nm squads with blastmasters.
Then its just a game of who rolls to go first...
I agree with Venomlust - I'll probably never face this. And being the only Eldar player I know I'm not going to do this to anyone.
And if someone insists, take 3 raiders and fill the rest of the points with baledrakes. Unbound ftw lol


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Gret79 said:


> Then you end up losing anyway to the guy who brought land raiders :grin:
> For about the same points you could bring 2 baledrakes and 6 x 5 man nm squads with blastmasters.
> Then its just a game of who rolls to go first...


not really. jetbikes can sit 49" from you or behind LOS blocking stuff or better still, in reserve and still be able to punish you when it comes to them. they are just so fast. About the landraider...ok, hide in there. how many can you bring at 1500 pts? who's going to win in maelstrom missions? :biggrin:
I know there are some counters to that spam. But it's not like the eldar list ends with jetbikes.
I am just amused on how the writer could end up with that. a funny unbound list could be eldar jetbikes supported by necron wraits and chaos heldrakes...i think im making this one when full rules are out...


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Gret79 said:


> Then you end up losing anyway to the guy who brought land raiders


That's when the 5 Wraithguard with Destroyer guns hop out of their wave serpent and laugh at any vehicle in the game.



Gret79 said:


> For about the same points you could bring 2 baledrakes and 6 x 5 man nm squads with blastmasters.
> Then its just a game of who rolls to go first...


Not really. The eldar player knows you have to stay stationary to use the decent blasmaster setting, so uses LoS blocking terrain or comes in from reserves with his (semi-)vulnerable bikers, who are spaced so that a small blast template can't hit more than 1 without a lucky minimal scatter, while his Wave Serpents shrug off a couple S8 shots, or his Wraithknights take a couple of wounds from a few turns of shooting...

Sorry, I'm bitter about Eldar, epecially in the face of these looming buffs, and I know it.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Another point on the "bring several Baledrakes" thing--I imagine your opponent might well take the "3 Crimson Hunter" detachment, and hold those in reserve to come on once your Heldrakes have come on, then run a shooting gallery where they Vector Dancer your helpless Drakes out of the sky with massed Lances. They might as well dominate the sky as well as the movement phase on the ground, you know (as well as movement during the shooting phase on the ground and movement during the assault phase on the ground *throws confetti* ah, just Eldar things).


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

That would pretty much be a situation where I wouldn't even bother playing them. Just shake hands, say congrats, and play the next guy.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

venomlust said:


> That would pretty much be a situation where I wouldn't even bother playing them. Just shake hands, say congrats, and play the next guy.


Agreed. ther's also a rumour talking about Swooping Hawgs being able to assault flyers. so say hello to the heldrake!


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Its lucky that most people have Eldar in my gaming group ...... oh no wait, I mean its lucky I don't mind packing my army away by turn 3 when I play in my gaming group :grin:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I love the fact everyone is scared to even face the new eldar army despite not seeing the codex , its really how it should be , reminds of the old days were we would roll a d6 to see who won the game roll 1-5 the eldar side win on a roll of a 6 the eldars opponent forfeits the game


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> I love the fact everyone is scared to even face the new eldar army despite not seeing the codex , its really how it should be , reminds of the old days were we would roll a d6 to see who won the game roll 1-5 the eldar side win on a roll of a 6 the eldars opponent forfeits the game



Now I get what your saying is a bit tongue in cheek, but I do remember Eldar being a potent army in the hands of a good player. But if what I have read so far is true you don't really need the good player part of that statement. You just need the right build and 'hey ho away we go!' 

That being said I am not 'scared' to face Eldar, I am just prepared to have short games against them, especially with my mono nurgle deamons uke:


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

neferhet said:


> Agreed. ther's also a rumour talking about Swooping Hawgs being able to assault flyers. so say hello to the heldrake!


That rumours been around for years and its never happened yet bar maybe in apoc iirc.
Which is a shame because I haven't seen hawks on the table in years  
I'll bet 50p that its not happening this time either


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Gret79 said:


> I'll bet 50p that its not happening this time either


:grin: i know...you are right i think, still could be a funny bet


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

neferhet said:


> :grin: i know...you are right i think, still could be a funny bet


I'll bet you my forum avatar :grin: If hawks can assault flyers, you can choose my avatar pic :grin:


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Gret79 said:


> I'll bet you my forum avatar :grin: If hawks can assault flyers, you can choose my avatar pic :grin:


ok, i'm in. You can choose mine if they can't! :laugh:
this is going to end bad either way :spiteful:


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## tirnaog (Jan 28, 2010)

When does the preorder go up? 
Or when can we get the codex from itunes?


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

I believe the 25th was release date?

EDIT: Yep. Everything's currently available.

Interesting to note: Shining Spears are still a plastic + resin kit, and Autarchs are the same. However the Autarch's cost is the same as the Farseer, while Shining Spears are not. This will certainly discourage me from adding them to my Saim Hann list.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Somebody has their hands on the codex, according to BoLS:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/04/boom-eldar-rules-tidalwave.html

We have confirmation.

Wraithknights cost 295 (can switch the ranged D-weapons for a melee D-weapon+shield for free), Wraithguard cost the same, and D-Scythes get -1 on rolls to the Destroyer Table. Wave Serpents cost 110 points, but the Serpent Shield is 24" 2D6 S6 Ignores Cover, One Use Only (plus no laser lock on scatter lasers, anymore).

Some other interesting stuff. Swooping Hawks can Haywire flyers they move over (sorry @neferhet--not quite "assaulting"). Banshees ignore I penalty assaulting into cover.

All in all looks like some much needed buffs and nerfs, and it looks pretty fun and balanced... aside from the massed, massive Wraith-D looming over the battlefield alongside jetbikes jetbikes jetbikes spitting out 40 S6 shots with a threat range of 36" per turn for 270 points.


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

This has got to be the biggest pile of feces they came up with yet. 

those jetbikes and the very spammable wraithknight (12 per decurion style detachment it was?) can break the game, especially if they can be taken as individual detachments (like canoptyk harvest?)

Guess it's just packing up your stuff and moving on to the next game if you see certain eldar armies coming. Sad times, they were doing so well with balance right up untill the last 2 books, I actually had hope for a balanced edition.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Mossy Toes said:


> Wraithknights cost 295 (can switch the ranged D-weapons for a melee D-weapon+shield for free)


Expensive as fuck for two non-TL, non-blast, non-Ignores Cover Destroyer shots at BS4. Better be a damn good melee unit.



Mossy Toes said:


> Wraithguard cost the same, and D-Scythes get -1 on rolls to the Destroyer Table.


Huh, so they only wound on 3s and can't get Deathblow? That's... actually pretty entirely reasonable, sure.



Mossy Toes said:


> Wave Serpents cost 110 points, but the Serpent Shield is 24" 2D6 S6 Ignores Cover, One Use Only (plus no laser lock on scatter lasers, anymore).


Fuuuuuuck yeeeeeees.



Mossy Toes said:


> Some other interesting stuff. Swooping Hawks can Haywire flyers they move over (sorry @neferhet--not quite "assaulting"). Banshees ignore I penalty assaulting into cover.


Great, matching abilities to fluff. Better late than never!



Mossy Toes said:


> All in all looks like some much needed buffs and nerfs, and it looks pretty fun and balanced... aside from the massed, massive Wraith-D looming over the battlefield alongside jetbikes jetbikes jetbikes spitting out 40 S6 shots with a threat range of 36" per turn for 270 points.


I'm really liking the look of it. Sure, Jetbikes can fire a load of shots, but since there won't be a bajillion Str7 Ignores Cover shots coming in from AV12 4+/3+ cover fast skimmers, that's not something new that Eldar can do and not Ignoring Cover is a _huge_ deal.

I'll take Jetbikes with Scatter Lasers across the table than Serpents any day.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

@neferhet

Looks like you won:grin: - hawks moving 18" and getting to haywire a flyer is more than I ever thought they'd get so you were easily more accurate than I was. But now I get to pull my hawks out of retirement 
And now I need to go buy another squad of guardians and dire avengers. Da with a bs of 5 for a turn or three shots each once per game - I might actually beat a tactical squad with that 
I actually think I can go back to using aspect warriors again.
Scorpions getting stealth and shrouded until they fight is interesting especially if the aspect formation gives them ws5 


And Neferhet do your worst :grin:


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

MidnightSun said:


> Expensive as fuck for two non-TL, non-blast, non-Ignores Cover Destroyer shots at BS4. Better be a damn good melee unit.


Are you smoking something? It needs to have that as well before you start considering it? 

This thing got pumped to gargantuan creature... that means it gets stomp, FnP, poison only on 6+, instant death now only does D3 wounds, split fire... 

For a laughable points increase on a model that was already pretty damn sick... and now the weapons are StrD?? All for under 300... You must have a very weird view of "expensive as fuck" or not have the faintest clue what game balance is. Face 3-4 of them in the new formation style the eldar have... See if you still think it's undercosted.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

elmir said:


> Are you smoking something? It needs to have that as well before you start considering it?
> 
> This thing got pumped to gargantuan creature... that means it gets stomp, FnP, poison only on 6+, instant death now only does D3 wounds, split fire...
> 
> For a laughable points increase on a model that was already pretty damn sick... and now the weapons are StrD?? All for under 300... You must have a very weird view of "expensive as fuck" or not have the faintest clue what game balance is. Face 3-4 of them in the new formation style the eldar have... See if you still think it's undercosted.


Stomp is a big one, I think, for clearing tarpits (and the occasional "let's remove 3 Wraiths/Hammernators because I rolled a 6!"). Don't forget Strikedown and snipers only wounding it on 6s too, now.



MidnightSun said:


> Expensive as fuck for two non-TL, non-blast, non-Ignores Cover Destroyer shots at BS4. Better be a damn good melee unit.


As an I5 melee unit, they'll shred Knights before Knights get to attack, period. For about 80 points cheaper.

Plus we have support platforms and non-scythe wraithguard to think about, which don't have the -1 to the D table... but will only be ignoring armor, not cover. W/r/t D-scythes, yah, looks like. Ignores Cover too, which is important when compared to these other ranged D-weapons, but... don't forget the "D3 wounds per 3+" aspect of it too. Now you're not praying to roll a 6 to wound, but will be splattering any MC without a fantastic invuln basically guaranteed, if you're in range.

I imagine we'll still see some Wave Serpents for pinch shooting and to transport Wraithguard, but... yeah, jetbikes are going to be more prominent.

I feel like they struck a pretty good balance with Wave Serpents, honestly, not over-nerfing but providing some much-needed balance to the unit--from a brief overview, not having playtested, obviously. 2D6 S6 Ignores Cover shots per Wave Serpent is still going to make for one hell of a shooting phase in a pinch. The real question is if it still downgrades pens to glances, and if it continues to do so after the One Use Only.


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

I'm curious if there will be any units absent from the book.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Einherjar667 said:


> I'm curious if there will be any units absent from the book.


I think GW have mostly been dropping units they don't have minis for, and they already culled those from Eldar last codex.


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

Mossy Toes said:


> I think GW have mostly been dropping units they don't have minis for, and they already culled those from Eldar last codex.


I meant more like how Khorne Daemonkin didn't have certain stuff like Oblits, plague marines, etc. Cause those will obviously be present either in other daemonkin books, or left out for thematic reasons. So since this is a "Craftworld" book, does that mean they're going to define the Elder more specifically? IE "These are Craftworld Eldar, those are Exodite Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequin Eldar, etc."

Probably not the case, but still curious to see.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Einherjar667 said:


> I meant more like how Khorne Daemonkin didn't have certain stuff like Oblits, plague marines, etc. Cause those will obviously be present either in other daemonkin books, or left out for thematic reasons. So since this is a "Craftworld" book, does that mean they're going to define the Elder more specifically? IE "These are Craftworld Eldar, those are Exodite Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequin Eldar, etc."
> 
> Probably not the case, but still curious to see.


Well, Dark Eldar lost the Harlequin troupe last codex, so now I imagine that Craftworld have followed there, at least. That's the only real overlap I see between the three factions we have out, though I wouldn't put it past GW to come up with a Harlequin/Skitarii level Exodite force, too, finally. That would be cool. But yeah, I think it's not too far to say that's what they've done with Eldar factions, not what they might do with them.

Still, I think Daemonkin is a bit different since it's a subset of two other factions mushed together, rather than its own faction distinctly.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Yeah, sure, the sky is fucking falling and everyone should just give up now because their underpowered factions obviously have no hope of beating the retarded bullshit fucking neckbeard WAAC faction that _isn't even released yet._


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Gret79 said:


> @neferhet
> 
> Looks like you won:grin: - hawks moving 18" and getting to haywire a flyer is more than I ever thought they'd get so you were easily more accurate than I was. But now I get to pull my hawks out of retirement
> And now I need to go buy another squad of guardians and dire avengers. Da with a bs of 5 for a turn and three shots each once per game - I might actually beat a tactical squad with that
> ...


Well, actually i didn't won. Our bet was on the "Assault", so actually we both lost. However, this is the FIRST ever direct interaction between a non flyer and a zooming model...

I couldn't really be ok with my soul to decide your avatar...unless you want to use this pic









:laugh:


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

Mossy Toes said:


> Well, Dark Eldar lost the Harlequin troupe last codex, so now I imagine that Craftworld have followed there, at least. That's the only real overlap I see between the three factions we have out, though I wouldn't put it past GW to come up with a Harlequin/Skitarii level Exodite force, too, finally. That would be cool. But yeah, I think it's not too far to say that's what they've done with Eldar factions, not what they might do with them.
> 
> Still, I think Daemonkin is a bit different since it's a subset of two other factions mushed together, rather than its own faction distinctly.


Interesting, making these new books more of a finer definition of the armies rather than their predecessors. I'd love to see an Exodite book too. 

And I suppose Khorne Daemonkin more or less defined that God's armies rather than specified CSM or CDs. Bad example but you catch my drift.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> Yeah, sure, the sky is fucking falling and everyone should just give up now because their underpowered factions obviously have no hope of beating the retarded bullshit fucking neckbeard WAAC faction that _isn't even released yet._


I'm not saying the sky is falling. It's just going to be very, very... hard to play Eldar players who field substantial amounts of Wraith. People already talk about refusing to play lists made up of 3+ Knights; 3+ Wraithknight Eldar might just get the same treatment from a sizeable minority player base.




neferhet said:


> Well, actually i didn't won. Our bet was on the "Assault", so actually we both lost. However, this is the FIRST ever direct interaction between a non flyer and a zooming model...


A compromise: both of you pick avatars for each other!


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

elmir said:


> This thing got pumped to gargantuan creature... that means it gets stomp, FnP, poison only on 6+, instant death now only does D3 wounds, split fire...


Just glad I have deathmarks now to wound on a 2+ the turn they come in 

On a more serious not, look at the major power creep of necrons, then look at the fact deamonkin can get free bloodthirsters, and how Skitarrii are all over the shop before the game has even begun. 

At the end of the day I think this will be like fliers all over again. We all panicked and though shit how am I going to deal with that, and now when they appear we are like cool lets get on with this. From the way Codexes are going at the moment I wouldn't consider it all that bad, I mean again going back to necrons, they laugh at the fact that you have strength D, they are still getting 5+++ anyway if they have a decurion and they have enough to get on with killing the thing anyway (see barges or lychguard). Granted yes most codicies won't have a clear method of bringing it down, but we haven't seen the rest of the codex yet nor what the core formations contain that will then allow you to take several.

I'm not worried about it, as I haven't played it yet. If after a couple of months there is still no hope then yes its silly, buT Iexpect from the way 7th has been going I would expect this to be average.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

The power creep is pretty intense, yeah. Necrons are unkillable with guns that can kill anything, the Eldar can get anywhere in no time flat and kill anything... etc. I'd cede your point about Daemonkin... if my "free" Bloodthirsters didn't a) cost half my army being dead, first and b) take two turns after DSing in swooping to be able to do anything.

What my emotions are basically boiling down to: sorry Eldar players, you still have the best units in the game controlling every single phase of the game, so people are still going to give you shit when you unpack your army and put it on the table. The bitching and moaning every time you bring your army is still going to continue, because getting tabled causes bitching and moaning.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

falcoso said:


> Granted yes most codicies won't have a clear method of bringing it down, but we haven't seen the rest of the codex yet nor what the core formations contain that will then allow you to take several.


Fog of Dreams. Hammernators. Dominate with Ld penalties. Psychic Shriek en masse. Hammernators. Lychguard. Devastator Centurions. Daemonhammers en masse for GK. Misfortune and First Rank Fire Second Rank Fire for Guard. Daemonettes for Daemons, or any army that can access Malefic.

My ass do some codexes struggle to deal with it. Armies, sure, but Codexes? No.


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## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

The only two things I am annoyed at are Dscythes and the pricing of the Wraithknight.

Dscythes, even with their -1 on the D table, will still obliterate any tank/MC effortlessly. Sure, the wraithcannons can do that to, but at least you have to roll to hit with them...

And the Wraithknight? It makes the Tesseract Vault, Lord of Skulls and Imp. Knights look like a fucking joke. At I5, the Lord of Skulls and Imp. Knights won't even get a chance to swing before being taken apart (assuming the sword is being used). And I realize the the point of the Vault is different from the others, as they are CC machines, but its still nearly double the points of a WK for something that fires a random attack, that might not even be what you need.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Mossy Toes said:


> A compromise: both of you pick avatars for each other!


 @neferhet
This? Its either that or we both end up being too polite to win :grin:

Can anyone explain from the rumours how monofilament is going to work?
I read it but I kept going crosseyed...


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

The Sturk said:


> And the Wraithknight? It makes the Tesseract Vault, Lord of Skulls and Imp. Knights look like a fucking joke. At I5, the Lord of Skulls and Imp. Knights won't even get a chance to swing before being taken apart (assuming the sword is being used). And I realize the the point of the Vault is different from the others, as they are CC machines, but its still nearly double the points of a WK for something that fires a random attack, that might not even be what you need.


Well, the Tesseract is a pretty crappy super-heavy anyway so makes for an unfair comparison, and the Lord of Skulls is almost always going to have Invisibility and/or Shrouding from Be'lakor (who always goes with it) or the Grimoire for a 3++. As for Imperial Knights, yeah, I'd agree that the Wraithknight is probably better.

300pts for a Wraithknight and everyone says Eldar are overpowered, but look at some of the Lord of War options for other factions; Orks pay 500pts for an AV13/13/12 12HP Super-Heavy Walker with a pair of 7" Blast Destroyer shots that you can pack full of cheap Meks and give it an Invulnerable to make it preposterous to kill. Imperials can get a Knight-Acheron, which I'll take over a Wraithknight - 415pts for a Knight with a Str7 AP3 Hellstorm template and an extra attack? 380pts for a Knight with an 8-shot Str7 AP3 TL gun and hitting everyone in base to base with Str10 AP2 Deflagrate? Sure, these things are all Lord of War so you can only bring one per detachment, but who cares? It's not hard to get an extra HQ and 2 troops.

Bring three Wraithknights for 900pts and I'll bring Aetaos'rau'keres for 999pts and it'll become evident that being able to bring a silly giant monster in this game isn't something new that Eldar can do that makes Eldar overpowered.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> and the Lord of Skulls is almost always going to have Invisibility and/or Shrouding from Be'lakor (who always goes with it) or the Grimoire for a 3++


Oh, I'm sorry, the Lord of Skulls has gone from 3x the cost of a Wraithknight to 4x, if you include Be'lakor. That's clearly why a Lord of Skulls with no invisibility on it (or with Invisibility failed, or with Invisibility denied) should still get shattered by a Wraithknight before it gets to strike.



MidnightSun said:


> Bring three Wraithknights for 900pts and I'll bring Aetaos'rau'keres for 999pts


So what are the other 3000 points in the list going to be, given that a Daemon Lord still can't be more than 25% of your list?

I concede that there are definitely some great Lords of War out there. I practically never see any of those Lords of War, however, and I know a shitload of players with (multiple) Wraithknights, though. And if the leaked super-detachment is a thing, you can take as many Wraithknights as you like after paying a few-unit tax, in a 1-12 choice. Like the 1-8 Lord of Skulls in a Blood Host. I think we can realistically expect to see and face 3-Wraithknight armies; I have yet to face a Stompa or a Cerastus Knight. I am fortunate in that regard, I know, but it doesn't make the Wraithknight any less incredibly powerful for it's dirt cheap price tag (as far as LoW go). It is one of the highest (if not _the_ highest, tied with the far more expensive Knight-Lancer) Initiative D-strength melee weapons in the game with a solid number of attacks, at this point.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I am not making any further comments or judgements as I have no idea what I'm talking about until I've actually played the damn game.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Wow I've missed some stuff in the past few days!

Wave Serpents got nerfed, eh? 110 points now, how many points were they before?


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

venomlust said:


> Wave Serpents got nerfed, eh? 110 points now, how many points were they before?


I think in the 120 range. So a minor reduction in cost--just they aren't always twin-linked and Serpent Shields are nerfed.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Gret79 said:


> @neferhet
> This? Its either that or we both end up being too polite to win :grin:
> 
> Can anyone explain from the rumours how monofilament is going to work?
> I read it but I kept going crosseyed...


agreed:grin: i'm good with both solutions!


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## The Irish Commissar (Jan 31, 2012)

Anyone know if after this update if I can just play my wraithknight as normal and not bother with this update, don't fancy playing LoWs. Only have one wraithknight by the way, I don't spam them


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> I am not making any further comments or judgements as I have no idea what I'm talking about until I've actually played the damn game.


what an utterly preposterous thing to say, 
you must now make a snap judgement on why the game is now broken and which competitor you will be leaving for...........:grin:


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Gret79 said:


> Can anyone explain from the rumours how monofilament is going to work?
> I read it but I kept going crosseyed...


My guess: you roll the weapon's S vs the enemy's I as their T. So Tau and Necrons and Carnifexes count as T2, being I2, while a Daemon Prince counts as T8, being I8. And so on and so forth. I assume still going to be S6 or S7 (but like it says, still calculating ID vs enemy Toughness).


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Bindi Baji said:


> what an utterly preposterous thing to say,
> you must now make a snap judgement on why the game is now broken and which competitor you will be leaving for...........:grin:


You'll never make me play warmahordifaux

neeeevveeeeeer


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Mossy Toes said:


> My guess: you roll the weapon's S vs the enemy's I as their T. So Tau and Necrons and Carnifexes count as T2, being I2, while a Daemon Prince counts as T8, being I8. And so on and so forth. I assume still going to be S6 or S7 (but like it says, still calculating ID vs enemy Toughness).


So my spiders will hurt marines on a 4+...
That's a bit of a nut punch for them 

Still buzzing about the rest of the aspects though

I'm thinking a cad with a farseer on a bike, five jetbikes with shuricannons as a bodyguard, some guardians, an aspect shrine formation and a dire avenger shrine formation should be a fun start for a list :victory:

In my head, I've gone back to the third ed craftworld codex - 3 squads of DA, a squad of scorpions, a squad of banshees and a squad of hawks.
With still room for tanks and a phoenix lord/avatar/more aspect warriors.

3 falcons with aspect warriors like fire dragons with no scatter deep strike seems a bit powerful - 3 pulse lasers, 3 shuriken cannons, 3 more heavy weapons and 18 melta shots or 21 with fast shot exarchs?
Sheesh!


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Mossy Toes said:


> I think in the 120 range. So a minor reduction in cost--just they aren't always twin-linked and Serpent Shields are nerfed.


Good stuff. Did any of their transports get the assault vehicle rule? (Hoping NOT :angel


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I have to say rules aside im quite disappointed by this release, i mean hey its nice they have finally got round to putting the bikes out, but lets not pussy foot about they have been finished along time and could have easily been released with the last codex 2 years ago or any time since, and to add insult to injury they havent updated the damn shining spears or the autarch on his bike??? How hard would it have been to make the guardian bikes a dual kit with the spears in it and the warlock and farseer to include the autarch?? Seems like a total step backwards in the way they release stuff, all the effort that has gone into minis for the last 12 months was realy impressive, look at the harlies two vehicles kits, a troope and several clam packs for a very minor army.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

yeah agreed, that's strange. It looks like a revamp of an oldie than a true new release


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## the_barwn (Jul 23, 2011)

Yes am disappointed over the poor showing for autarch but hoping that the figure will fit on the new bike though


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

Harlie codex and craftworlder codex. Is there an Exodite codex somewhere on the horizon? 

Good with new bikes but don't need any more myself. Had hoped for new Warp Spiders myself. And the autarch should have been easy to include somewhere or getting hos own update with serveral options available.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Gret79 said:


> So my spiders will hurt marines on a 4+...
> That's a bit of a nut punch for them


I don't think so. It still says the weapon is S6, on further glancing through those rules--vs Marine typical I4 (to represent T4), that'll be wounding on 2+.



venomlust said:


> Good stuff. Did any of their transports get the assault vehicle rule? (Hoping NOT )


Nothing in the rules says anything about that, and I think there'd be a buzz if it did, but... Dark Eldar can't buy dedicated transports as, say, FA slots, yet, can they? I imagine they will next codex, so you'll see Banshees in Raiders/Venoms, and such...


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## Routine (Sep 25, 2011)

As of the newest Dark Eldar Codex, they can take Venoms and/or Raiders as FA choices


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Routine said:


> As of the newest Dark Eldar Codex, they can take Venoms and/or Raiders as FA choices


There you go! Thanks for that, wasn't sure where on the cusp of that new policy they were. I think you can expect to see some Banshees, etc, spilling out of those, then!


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Just a thing - why the fuck would you buy a Farseer on Jetbike for £20 when you can buy three Jetbikers for £25? Buy four boxes, build your ten-man-plus-Warlock squad and convert the leftover dude into a Farseer. Seriously, what is up with that.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> Just a thing - why the fuck would you buy a Farseer on Jetbike for £20 when you can buy three Jetbikers for £25? Buy four boxes, build your ten-man-plus-Warlock squad and convert the leftover dude into a Farseer. Seriously, what is up with that.


If you want to have a slightly different robed dude, I guess. I dunno, really I'm right there with you; I take a goodly amount of pride for getting the most bang for my buck from the kits I buy. It's why I made my 30-odd Chaos Bikers from WHF cavalry, and such...


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Mossy Toes said:


> I don't think so. It still says the weapon is S6, on further glancing through those rules--vs Marine typical I4 (to represent T4), that'll be wounding on 2+.


Ah, so its strength 6 vs init value - thanks 
@neferhet - you ready? I should have your pic tomorrow night :wink:


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

MidnightSun said:


> Just a thing - why the fuck would you buy a Farseer on Jetbike for £20 when you can buy three Jetbikers for £25? Buy four boxes, build your ten-man-plus-Warlock squad and convert the leftover dude into a Farseer. Seriously, what is up with that.


My army's going to be built out of lots of different bike designs, and I kind of like that. My warlocks are going to be using modified Reavers, my Autarchs will be the ones using the big fancy skyrunner bikes, while more Farseer bits will go towards those Reavers (since I feel they'll look sleeker).

Eventually I'll convert up some Shining Spears, possibly using Fantasy knight bits, since I don't think I'll ever shell out for resin laser lances. Plus Windrider double bikes.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Have we seen any details about the artifacts? Is the stupid ghost helm still in?


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

They could have done so much with this release, so much lost potential. As has been mentioned already, the jetbike kit could have included parts for shining spear aspect warriors and the jet seer could have had parts for an autarch. Also the autarch blister could have had more options like a warp spider teleporter back pack. They could have released some, if not all of the aspect warriors in plastic, not to mention the phoenix lords. And how about something completely new, or even old that we haven't seen in a while, when the 4th codex hit there was a model for a bone singer but no rules. Of all the eldar psykers in the 40k universe the bonesinger is my favorite, they could have released rules for him along with his own discipline, he would only need three powers and a primaris power (roll of d3) and a new model or even re release of the old one in fine cast. I really want a bonesinger. Spirit seer could have had his own discipline too.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

What's that you say? They've finally given us models that aren't 20 years old? And given us actual models for something that's been a codex option for the last 15?

Great stuff. Even if the chars are overpriced and optionless, I don't mind a little conversion work.

Now get to work on the fucking Warp Spiders and Phoenix Lords.

Or, even better: admit that Phoenix Lords have never actually worked as intended, ever, since their first incarnation, and should be skipped from the next codex in favour of new options that can be made to work.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

@Gret79 ok  Ready!


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

neferhet said:


> @Gret79 ok  Ready!


Here you go 

Don't look if you are of a nervous disposition...


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

AAAaargh


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

gret79 said:


> here you go
> 
> don't look if you are of a nervous disposition...


Hahaha yes!

Also, by and large it would appear this book is filled with good changes and worthwhile units. There are always missed opportunities because we all want something a little different when our chosen book gets rewritten. But really... objectively, this is a good book. Rejoice at the numerous flavors of cheese you have in your arsenal.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

neferhet said:


> AAAaargh


I'm aware that by posting that I've just lowered the tone of the internet. I swear the eyes follow you around the room...

Your move Neferhet :grin:

I can't wait for the eldar codex. Pre ordered with the cards today


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Gret79 said:


> I'm aware that by posting that I've just lowered the tone of the internet. I swear the eyes follow you around the room...
> 
> Your move Neferhet :grin:
> 
> I can't wait for the eldar codex. Pre ordered with the cards today


You will forever remember my expression when i saw your pic, by using it as an avatar!!










Also, i really like all the new eldar stuff. Not the bikes, not the D Wraith stuff...but the rumours of the rest seems funny enough (still, as a CSM player i feel bad..very bad)


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

@neferhet - Touche!

And done.

Those duck eyes are as bad as biebers!


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Gret79 said:


> @neferhet - Touche!
> 
> And done.
> 
> Those duck eyes are as bad as biebers!


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

I must say, @neferhet, your signature quote fits just _so_ with that avatar...


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

In fact, Mossy..you have a point...


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## GuiltySparc (Dec 29, 2014)

man, the internet sure is mad about this one, lol


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

I think the outright rage is a bit misplaced and somewhat ridiculous. 

But clearly, they put way more thought and creativity into this book than they did Khorne Daemonkin, for instance. That is what frustrates me. They considered every single unit in the Eldar book; strengths, weaknesses, points cost, special abilities, etc. They adjusted them so that almost everything is good and useful, even though certain units outshine all the others. 

I then look at the copy and paste from CSM/Daemons into Daemonkin and can't help but roll my eyes. 

#WhinyEnviousChaosPlayer


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## mrknify (May 15, 2014)

venomlust said:


> I think the outright rage is a bit misplaced and somewhat ridiculous.
> 
> But clearly, they put way more thought and creativity into this book than they did Khorne Daemonkin, for instance. That is what frustrates me. They considered every single unit in the Eldar book; strengths, weaknesses, points cost, special abilities, etc. They adjusted them so that almost everything is good and useful, even though certain units outshine all the others.
> 
> ...


Dont forget, they put ALL the craftworld (supposedly) into the new (el)dhur dex and only khorne into the daemonkin dex.

Nope no love. Where is the nurgle love? Nope not here, in fantasy (yours) but not 40k 

Its time to... spend a penny lou.


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## GuiltySparc (Dec 29, 2014)

i thought people were mad about the D weapon and scatter laser spam.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

GuiltySparc said:


> i thought people were mad about the D weapon and scatter laser spam.


I think people are just completely mad in general.


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## GuiltySparc (Dec 29, 2014)

Haskanael said:


> I think people are just completely mad in general.


that is definitely true.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

You speak the truth.

:crazy::crazy::crazy:

HOOHOOHOOHOOHOOHOO!


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

venomlust said:


> #WhinyEnviousChaosPlayer


You mean post-3rd ed Chaos player


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

That works, too. :laugh:


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I hate to say it, but I think this might not be the travesty it appeared to be on the surface. The Day of the Knight is over, I think. Now is the Dawn of the Wraith. And Necrons beware. You don't Resurrect from D weapons, even ones with -1 modifiers.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

And the world has gone from 'eldar are evil' to 'ooh, shiny new assassins'
Well played gw :grin:


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Gret79 said:


> And the world has gone from 'eldar are evil' to 'ooh, shiny new assassins'


ahah right! After all we are a bunch of grownup drunkards playing with toy soldiers, what do you expect??


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

I've just got this image of gw hq at the moment...

GW1: Lets sell them this shiny bastard of a codex with a bajillion op units.

GW2: Really? Why would they keep buying things if they can't win?

GW1: That's easy. We'll just sell them something else next week...

Edit: And for some reason I'm contemplating buying the assassins game. I sold my metal assassins and already have more chaos than I'll ever need ooh shiny!


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Gret79 said:


> And for some reason I'm contemplating buying the assassins game


Are you reading my mind??


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

I'm trying not to... I didn't need to see in there again
#shudder


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

It is all good, but GW missed the mark and could have continued for a couple of weeks and flesh out the Aspect Warriors such as Howling Banshees etc... or are we getting a new plastic unit every 18 months to two years. GW's usual scattergun approach contemptuous as always.


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## mayegelt (Mar 18, 2014)

Well GW have returned to not having a war but having an arms race. The general principle being that each book must outshine the previous. In that way they can keep timmy powergamer and WAAC guy buying a new army every month.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

mayegelt said:


> Well GW have returned to not having a war but having an arms race. The general principle being that each book must outshine the previous. In that way they can keep timmy powergamer and WAAC guy buying a new army every month.


Khorne Daemonkin need no arms to prove our might!


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Hmmm, now I've heard everything!
Eldritch storm is apparently ap3 and there's no death mission anymore :good:
No more worst, most useless, unfluffy piece of crap psychic power!


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## mrknify (May 15, 2014)

Gret79 said:


> Hmmm, now I've heard everything!
> Eldritch storm is apparently ap3 and there's no death mission anymore :good:
> No more worst, most useless, unfluffy piece of crap psychic power!


I know heaven forbid the eldar have something... sub-par.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

In the last codex, there were some very clear loser units.
Scorpions, banshees, hawk, dire avengers, both planes, the wraithknight, almost all the phoenix lords, vypers were all poor units.
Now they can all be used, leaving less points to spend on the 'bajillion psyker jetbike/serpent' army everybody knew and 'loved'
Its still a thing, but now the rest of the eldar players aren't being shoehorned into following the same builds
Hopefully, now we'll see much more diverse eldar armies


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

mayegelt said:


> Well GW have returned to not having a war but having an arms race. The general principle being that each book must outshine the previous. In that way they can keep timmy powergamer and WAAC guy buying a new army every month.


Eldar have been top of the pile for a loooong while.

None of the 7th edition Codexes other than Necrons are close to the 6th edition books in terms of 'power level'.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Ok...

Banshees and scorpions charge the same unit.
Scorpion exarch gets +1 attack for every point his init is greater than his opponents in a challenge.
Banshees reduce init by 5.
10 or so st6 attacks... Urgh.
Karandras in that scenario could get up to 12 attacks at st8, ap2, init 7.
Just sayin.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Gret79 said:


> Ok...
> 
> Banshees and scorpions charge the same unit.
> Scorpion exarch gets +1 attack for every point his init is greater than his opponents in a challenge.
> ...


Challenge refused.

Combo neutered.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

I just played a game against chaos. Combo would be viable against chaos.
But I forget I can refuse challenges - that's what playing champions of fenris and chaos have done to me...
Believe it or not, I'm happy its not as bad as I first thought. 12 powerfist attacks would win a challenge, then decimate a unit and that wouldn't make for a fun game - I like close games


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## mrknify (May 15, 2014)

Gret79 said:


> I just played a game against chaos. Combo would be viable against chaos.
> But I forget I can refuse challenges - that's what playing champions of fenris and chaos have done to me...
> Believe it or not, I'm happy its not as bad as I first thought. 12 powerfist attacks would win a challenge, then decimate a unit and that wouldn't make for a fun game - I like close games


Agree I like close games also, more enjoyment when the game is done.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

You get to talk about the game for one thing if its close :grin: There's no angry, silent packing away from one side whilst the opponent desperately apologises for his army...

'Honestly, I had no idea it would be that good' 
Said I as my chaos storm eagle singlehandedly annihilated an entire nid army - I'd taken it against marines before and all it did was fly round, look cool and die...
I felt awful


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## mrknify (May 15, 2014)

Gret79 said:


> You get to talk about the game for one thing if its close :grin: There's no angry, silent packing away from one side whilst the opponent desperately apologises for his army...
> 
> 'Honestly, I had no idea it would be that good'
> Said I as my chaos storm eagle singlehandedly annihilated an entire nid army - I'd taken it against marines before and all it did was fly round, look cool and die...
> I felt awful


Reminds me of two battles with my genestealer army.

Vs dark eldar I was wiped. I could not even get within charging distance.
Same tournament,
Vs Necrons I hit him so hard by turn 3 he was wiped off the board. I won the melee he failed his ld roll and the necrons left.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

MidnightSun said:


> Challenge refused.
> 
> Combo neutered.


Combo BREAKER! &#55357;&#56842; 

Only Jain Zars mask reduces init, not the rest of the banshees so bar a Karandras/Jain Zar tag team, this ain't happening.
But on that one day when the stars align...


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Gret79 said:


> But on that one day when the stars align...


1. Bring Jain Zar and Karandras
2. Fight Chaos Space Marines or Khorne Daemonkin
3. Charge a character that won't kill you as/before you swing (Karandras still has no Grenades, right?)
4. Challenge
5. ...
6. Massive profit


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Karandras got grenades now.
I swear, the eldar dex feels like wishlisting.

Jain Zar - if you are within 6", you lose 5 ws and init.
You don't roll for disarm any more, you just lose your best weapon to her.
Asurmen is almost the same - he's just swapped his defend power for a 3++ in a challenge, Fuegan lost fast shot but gets to re-roll either his shot, the pen or wound. Still hulks up too and Renewer is also still about on warlocks so that combo still works.Baharroth stayed the same but is by far the cheapest lord and Maugan-Ra gets to fire eight shots at 36" range a turn.
He got shrieker ammo back too.
The Phoenix's are all better Imo. Probably not worth the points still, but they are more useful now.
Other changes are
The Avatar lost his exarch powers but got st8 and gives a fearless, furious charge and rage bubble. Shining spears got permanent ap2.
Karandras can now enter play on turn two, from any board edge, with stealthed and shrouded scorpions. I like that one. He also got mandiblasters that hurt on a 2+ and ignore armour...
Ghosthelms still work the same, farseers get to re-roll as many dice as they want to for casting or dtw once per psychic phase.
Eldritch storm can be 4 warp charge and use the apocalyptic blast...
At ap 3 with fleshbane and haywire :shok:
And a question - Jain Zars 6" nerf bubble. If you put her in a serpent does that make the bubble go from the tank?
Sort've a nerf serpent?
And one last one I missed - eldar missile launchers now get starhawk missiles which are st7, ap4 with skyfire.


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## otasolgryn (May 31, 2014)

yeah i agree.

if all these things had been leaked early on, exactly like written here, ppl would have called the posting guy a wishlisting troll.

but alas no


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## mayegelt (Mar 18, 2014)

Well my breakdown of what has happened is...

New detachment is ok but I don't know if it is great. While previously you used a CAD and that allowed bikers to have objective secured. This new one just allows you to run a guaranteed distance. The new bonus is nice with the idea of maybe having selective terrain on your battlefield such as high rocks or something. Move out your 6" then shoot then run back behind solid cover. Or could be used to get your units around the battlefield a lot quicker. Of course the other bonus is that you could if you want max out on a lot of Heavy, Fast, Elites or whatever if you want without having to take must of a HQ tax.

Eldrad is a bit of a beast now with mastery 4 and access to the normal runes of fate or telepathy (as well as 2 others) he can get a really good chance on the spells that will give him what he wants. In addition whenever he successfully casts a spell he has a 1/3 chance to regain a warp charge. And like all farseers can choose to reroll any of the dice (so you might roll 5 dice and only get 2 successes so could choose to just reroll 2-3 of the fails) used to cast a single spell or deny in each psychic phase. Also if made leader of a seer council then passing casting checks on a 3+ rather than 4+. This is a large bonus when the new Eldritch Storm can be cast on 4 warp charge for an apoc blast, fleshbane, haywire, pinning, ap3 attack! And on top of all this wonderful stuff he can give d3 of your units scout with his warlord trait.

Looks like most phoenix lords are roughly the same as before from what I can gather though with the new aspect powers some seem to be nicely buffed. For example Feugan (and other fire dragons) will be using melta weapons that as AP1 give +2 to vehicle damage table... but no, that's not all... All Fire Dragons get +1 to Vehicle Damage Tables, so +3 (4 if open topped). That is a wrecking ball if you can get them close enough to any vehicle. Think how many hull points you can take off a Knight or Storma by getting in 6" and using your 5 guys to S8 Melta, so rolling 2D6 for pen and then +3 on dmg, so each caused a min of 1 Hull Point and on a 4+ for your damage table roll will take an additional D3.

The new Warlock Conclave seems like a nice idea to stop you having loads of LV1 Psykers. The basic of the new rule is when they are together they have a brotherhood type of rule similar to horrors, but as the number of them increases the units Mastery Level also goes up in small amounts.

Another thing to add is that Eldar do not get access to Daemonology Malefic, but can use Sanctic. So no Eldar summoning hordes of Daemons.

Guardians have kinda remained the same, but with the formations it has an interesting twist. The Battlehost gains some free heavy weapons, Stormhost get a couple of flamers and power weapons for free. Both get some preferred enemy for the Walkers, Heavy Weapons and Vipers if they shoot targets near the guardians. Also they can buy a Warlock for themselves out of the unit selection, so no more having to borrow one from a HQ choice.
Wind Riders as well publicised have a couple of extra guns on each unit. So no longer would you have to stick with the Catapults, you can now get Cannons for all or Scatters.

Scorpions have also had a boost I think. If they infiltrate then they also gain shrouded (what they have stealth already) until the unit decides to shoot (including overwatch). This means they are a fair bit less squishy as they have a 4+ cover save min. Of course any other cover they could get would be at +3. So leave them near walls and stuff and you could be looking at a melee unit that gets 2+ cover until combat then a 3+ armour save once in.

As put above Fire Dragons are now really really good Vehicle and Knight killers due to that additional +1 to Vehicle Damage Table.

Wraithguard are still nice, and I know there was a huge uproar about the "They have D weapons now!!!" but in most cases when they were already S10 AP2. So yeah if used to kill multi wound or heavier vehicles then yeah it will make a difference. Though it isn't as if they have split fire to shoot out several tanks in 1 turn. The major difference is that the scythes are also D weapons, but they have a -1 to the D table so not able to get those precious 6s to annihilate everyone. But also class as S4 for the purpose of instant death. 

Wraithblades are a tiny bit cheaper and gained RAGE! what is a nice bonus.

Wave Serpents are massively kicked down from where they were. Holofields now just give a small invuln save rather than adding to the cover save. So no more 3+ jinky things with their shield giving them 2+ to reduce. In addition to that the shield when fired is GONE for the rest of the game. So no more going out and shooting then finding a hidey spot and doing that again and again each turn.

Hemlocks are now Mastery Level 2 and are no longer restricted to having to choose a certain power. So that could be nice to take Conceal for shrouded as a primus, or going telepathy and maybe shrieking people down.

Falcons are now bought in a unit of up to 3 now, what does mean you don't have to burn so many Heavy choices if you are going for CAD. But as a bonus for taking 3 they can Deepstrike and the first does not scatter, and the other 2 can land in 4" of the first and also not scatter. This could be used to great effect to land down a squad of 3 of them loaded with Fire Dragons to burn down any of the big tanks or fortifications that might cause a prob. It is just a shame that they are still only capacity of 6 so you couldn't drop in Wrathguards (unless I am overlooking a weird rule that would allow half the squad to be in 1 transport and the other half in another as long as the 2 stay in coherency).

Fire Prisms get the same treatment of being buyable in 3s Though the linked fire thing is now limited to the squadron, so no longer could you randomly select just any of them to focus through if you wanted.

WraithKnight has shot up in points now. But as said in Gargantuan so a few nice bonus rules for that such as 12" Movement, Stomp, Fearless, Feel No Pain, Snipers and Poison only wound on 6s and of course most important is that instant death now just does D3 wounds rather than killing him instantly. Also with the heavy d cannons being d weapons it does give a real alternative to the suncannon, or if you go melee the sword is also a D weapon striking at I5, so could take out a lot of enemies before they can strike. What miffed me about that is that the Blood Thirster becomes I1 if he has his D weapon, what given this to the Eldar Knight I would have been happier if the Bloodthirster would have been reduced to I3 (so 1/3 of natural) when using D weapon, especially as they cost almost the same and the knight gets so much more for the points.

The Aspect Host is a really strong formation that gives you a bit more reason to take a few more Aspects as they gain either +1 to WS or BS, and can also reroll some LD checks if wanted. This is nice for Fire dragons again as this gives you BS5 Meltas and as said +3 to the Vehicle Damage Table.

Crimson Death (3 Crimson Hunters), gain a passive 4+ cover save, but can also if they jink choose to reroll if they fail. Pref enemy for Flyers and FMC means they have a good air domination, though do you really want 3.

So overall I think the book is a solid one. I think the ruination of the Wave Serpents will piss a load of people off as they now dismantle a few of the mass number they had before. But that loss will be more than compensated for with the rise of the aspects again and time will tell how good the D weapons prove to be.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Starhawk missiles.

I have 3 support weapons with ml, 2 serpents and two wraithlords.
These all just got skyfire. 
That means those free heavy weapons on guardian squads in the guardian warhost are 90pts of free skyfire.


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## otasolgryn (May 31, 2014)

mayegelt said:


> New detachment is ok but I don't know if it is great. While previously you used a CAD and that allowed bikers to have objective secured.


if you run the wraith formation its awfully nasty.

they get battle focus, and then sure 6" and then kill everything flamer... ughh



mayegelt said:


> All Fire Dragons get +1 to Vehicle Damage Tables, so +3 (4 if open topped). That is a wrecking ball if you can get them close enough to any vehicle. Think how many hull points you can take off a Knight or Storma by getting in 6" and using your 5 guys to S8 Melta, so rolling 2D6 for pen and then +3 on dmg, so each caused a min of 1 Hull Point and on a 4+ for your damage table roll will take an additional D3.



but if you use Wraithguards, you just auto kill it, more or less. with the S: D crap


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

otasolgryn said:


> if you run the wraith formation its awfully nasty.
> 
> they get battle focus, and then sure 6" and then kill everything flamer... ughh
> 
> ...


The Iyanden codex already meant you could battle focus and run 6" with a kill everything flamer -5 x st4, ap2 with instant death/autopen on 6's was already nasty.
Wraithguard don't fit in falcons, so the only ways they can get to you are either a wave serpent in which case you can try to take it out before it gets to you and there can be no more than 5 of them, or they footslog and they aren't a threat for a couple of turns.
Big squads of them are 300pts+ so bar a full wraith list you won't see that many of them.
Apart from the wraithknight changes, the rest of the wraithstuff isn't that different.
My ten wraithguard have always killed whatever they shot at, including greater demons, primarchs and spartans 
Heldrakes, Baal preds, plasma - anything ap3 and high enough strength will still kill wrathguard. If they get close, charge them with a throwaway squad, then charge with a dreadnought or a character. That ties them up for the rest of the game. Fearless means they can't leave cc once they're in it.
Wraithblades with swords lose to anything like monstrous creatures and dreads and I'd charge the axes with a blob squad - if they get charged, its one attack each for them which should tie them up indefinitely.
Of course, if you fight someone using dark eldar allies with a webway portal then that's different. But even then, its a 400+ point unit being used to kill one thing. Unless you have a super heavy worth more, that unit will never make its points back.

The main thing is try fighting them and make sure you know the eldar rules. Eldar win through special rules people either forget or don't know about. Its why non eldar players tend to hate them.
Things like 'warp spiders can teleport after you declare you're going to shoot them' will waste important shooting. Its not so bad if you know about it, but when you decide to flamer them rather than another unit because you didn't know or forgot, its either suck it up and grind your teeth or start an argument about how 'you wouldn't have done it if you'd known'
It won't be a fun game after that.
I compromise - I tell my opponents about what beardy eldar units do before the game rather than saying mid-game 'excuse me, just to let you know, if you shoot those spiders, I'll just teleport away so you'd be better to shoot this other unit over here' because I would still like to win, rather than playing both sides


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## otasolgryn (May 31, 2014)

aint much that can charge a unit of wraithguard with flamers and live to tell about it.

thats alot! of dead guys from overwatch.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

But, by the time they get to you (turn 2-3) you'll probably have taken some casualties from shooting - so charge with the remnants of a unit or a chaff unit like cultists. Than hit them with a decent cc squad once they've fired overwatch- A helbrute, maulerfiend or dread charging them will just remove them from the game
Or just shoot them some more


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

seems we are getting a really boring eldar jet bike battalion box set next week, 9 wind riders, farseer and a vyper for £95.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

How's that boring, exactly? It's 15% off the cost of the individual components, and it's a complete windrider host core element for the Craftworld detachment. It's also a playable army out of the gate as a CAD, which makes it an excellent starter box for a new Eldar army.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

One model short, actually. well, for the Windrider Host, at least. That requires at lest one more Skyrunner. 

But yes, it's a CAD in a box, which is very nice. About... 500 points if you did a lot of upgrades.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

The Son of Horus said:


> How's that boring, exactly? It's 15% off the cost of the individual components, and it's a complete windrider host core element for the Craftworld detachment. It's also a playable army out of the gate as a CAD, which makes it an excellent starter box for a new Eldar army.


its a yawnfest in a box and as pointed out its lacking a warlock conclave unit so its not the complete detachment, infact thats a huge bollock dropped too, they could have included the extra warlock and made it match the codex entry. 

anyway its boring because its a box of boring ass jetbikes, i can see the unboxing video now" very old vyper sprue? check, farseer jet bike sprue? check and a crap ton of boring ass jet bikes that have absolutely zero elements to make them anymore interesting than the last jet bike? check! and we are done"


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

GW just wants to enable Jetbikespam players to hook that IV up straight into their veins until we all choke to death on torrents of untouchably fast scatter lasters.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

bitsandkits said:


> its a yawnfest in a box and as pointed out its lacking a warlock conclave unit so its not the complete detachment, infact thats a huge bollock dropped too, they could have included the extra warlock and made it match the codex entry.
> 
> anyway its boring because its a box of boring ass jetbikes, i can see the unboxing video now" very old vyper sprue? check, farseer jet bike sprue? check and a crap ton of boring ass jet bikes that have absolutely zero elements to make them anymore interesting than the last jet bike? check! and we are done"


Seriously? The new jetbike models are so much better, just as models, than the last sculpts. But even if none of that does anything for you, it's a great bundle with a discount attached that's really a strong box as a battleforce-- i.e., something that starts your Eldar army or fleshes out your existing one with a strong Core element.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Okay maybe boring is the wrong word, dull would be better, yes its better than the last guardian jet bike, but its still poor, apart from an extra weapon the model has nothing, not even an alternate head ,or an alternate anything for that matter, zero customisability. So the battleforce is just a box of dull


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> Okay maybe boring is the wrong word, dull would be better, yes its better than the last guardian jet bike, but its still poor, apart from an extra weapon the model has nothing, not even an alternate head ,or an alternate anything for that matter, zero customisability. So the battleforce is just a box of dull


I've requested some pictures of Kittens dressed up as battle cat to come in the boxes to cheer you up........


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