# Chaos daemon tatics



## cooldudeskillz

so how do you use your chaos daemons? how to you counter the issue of being shot at when deep stricking.


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## Deceiver

You can run after deepstriking so hopefully you can get into a better position. At least there is a deepstrike mishap table in 5th now. Need 1rst turn units with an icon to last until the rest of your reserves make it in. Will still be fairly dicey making good scatter and reserve rolls.


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## Juiceypoop

try and make sure you got somethign to shoot back with on the turn you deep strike, to limit the ammount of incoming fire. I use flamers soulgrinders and horrors for this purpose. 

A good unit to stick an icon on is bloodcrushers, t5 2 wounds a piece and a 3 plus armour save makes them pretty survivable. 

if you want soemthign that can soak up craploads of fire power, get nurglings, they're immune to instant death, hav an inv save, and 3 wounds each.


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## cooldudeskillz

i use horrors and the soulgrinder on my first turn for the same reasons you gave, then use khrone daemons on the rest.


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## Vrykolas2k

From the battles I've seen with them, and the two times I've beaten them, it's best if you let the other guy go first so he wastes his first turn.
Other than that... ya they have invulnerable saves, but the save is pretty high, making them kinda fragile.


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## Juiceypoop

Vrykolas2k said:


> From the battles I've seen with them, and the two times I've beaten them, it's best if you let the other guy go first so he wastes his first turn.
> Other than that... ya they have invulnerable saves, but the save is pretty high, making them kinda fragile.


This is true, wich is why it's important to either have some untis that can do lots of damage when they show up without moving, deploy so that you don't get the crap shot out of you straight away, or feild some damage absorbing units, like nurglings.


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## Arch__Angel

I think using fiends horrors and soulgrinders on the first turn will help alot. Fiends will get into combat and hold up your enemy, the horrors and soulgrinders can shoot alot as well, you could take a bluescribe ith flamers insted of horrors, but i like the changling.


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## drazhar

Strong base of troops to split into the two groups is a must have in my exp. I usually try take at least two units of each selection I take and split them evenly. mostly consistant of horror, flamers, Fiends, the masque, herald of slaanesh. If the points are there Deamon Princes. Icons all around.


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## soulstorm777

i rekon that against shooty armies use nurgle a lot as they soak up a lot of firepower.Use four heralds as you can out number enemy characters.Also try give each herald a bodyguard of deamons.


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## Katie Drake

The easiest way to deal with being shot up is to take units of Horrors and Plaguebearers. Units of 10 or more are ideal. Horrors are good at taking hits because of their good Invulnerable save, but Plaguebearers are even better. They have a high Toughness, Invulnerable save and Feel No Pain.

Also, Soul Grinders can be used to block Line of Sight. They're really big so enemy units will have a hard time getting many shots off on your units if there's a Grinder in the way. Landing behind terrain can also work really well.


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## spudboy

Using a shooty entry from deepstrike is probably a good way to go, but I remember the Codex (or an article?) suggesting using some Plaguebearers or other tough-as-nails Nurgle types to be bolt absorbers while waiting for the rest of the band to pick up their instruments and play.

Plaguebearers + icon + daemonettes on deepstrike = slice and dice?


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## cooldudeskillz

ive changed my tatics and now go for plague bearers on the first wave, followed by bloodletters


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## darklove

I have the Spearhead box - how would people recommend splitting that for deployment?


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## cooldudeskillz

um, theres no real good way to split the spearhead, as most units in it are assault troops who can't take much punishment, i woud suggest buying some horrors or plague bearers before deciding how to split it.


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## Katie Drake

darklove said:


> I have the Spearhead box - how would people recommend splitting that for deployment?


What the above poster said. I tried playing with the Spearhead out of the box and it gets taken apart. You really need other units to get an effective Daemon army.

Also - check this thread out: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9092


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## darklove

What would be the fastest way to turn the Spearhead into a working army?


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## Katie Drake

darklove said:


> What would be the fastest way to turn the Spearhead into a working army?


The first and most important step is to drive a riding mower over the Beast of Nurgle. After that, buy 2 boxes of Plaguebearers and 2 of Horrors. Get icon bearers for the Plaguebearer units. Convert a single Horror into the Changeling. That should put you in a good spot, though the addition of a Greater Daemon (any but the Lord of Change) would be grand.

imo, at least.


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## darklove

So the Beast of Nurgle isn't any use then? They make it sound good in the Codex...


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## cooldudeskillz

the beast of nurgle is the most useless daemon unit in the codex imo, but before buying any daemons you should ask yourself-
1) what tatics do i like?
2) what are the most common army's i fight and what daemons would be best to fight these?
3) what god/gods do i like?(e.g if you like khrone and nurgle alot then why not go for a daemon army based on them, or just get units from all gods)

after you thought about this then make a list an army list an post it up for all to see


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## Katie Drake

darklove said:


> So the Beast of Nurgle isn't any use then? They make it sound good in the Codex...


They make everything sound good in Codex books. That's the point.


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## cooldudeskillz

Katie Drake said:


> They make everything sound good in Codex books. That's the point.


if they didn't then some units would never be bought because well,there crap
this gives me an idea:biggrin:


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## spudboy

Katie Drake said:


> They make everything sound good in Codex books. That's the point.


So, besides points cost, what is bad about it? They seem to have their uses as points 'fillers' and close-combat bombs (DS near a detatchment of lightly armored troops and let-at). The biggest drawback, after points, might be random numbers of attacks.

Or am I just putting icing on a turd?


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## cooldudeskillz

i think you just putting icing on a turdk: lol, i mean look at what you can have instead....... yer thats what i thought lol


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## Katie Drake

spudboy said:


> So, besides points cost, what is bad about it? They seem to have their uses as points 'fillers' and close-combat bombs (DS near a detatchment of lightly armored troops and let-at). The biggest drawback, after points, might be random numbers of attacks.
> 
> Or am I just putting icing on a turd?


What's bad about it?

- It's slow.
- It's under-talented in close combat without Noxious Touch.
- It has a random number of attacks, but even if you do roll a 6 you probably won't do much in the way of damage.
- The model is awful.
- It's essentially a moving, drooling pile of shit. Like, literally.

Reason enough for me to steer clear. Dunno about you guys. :laugh:


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## cooldudeskillz

Katie Drake said:


> What's bad about it?
> 
> - It's slow.
> - It's under-talented in close combat without Noxious Touch.
> - It has a random number of attacks, but even if you do roll a 6 you probably won't do much in the way of damage.
> - The model is awful.
> - It's essentially a moving, drooling pile of shit. Like, literally.
> 
> Reason enough for me to steer clear. Dunno about you guys. :laugh:


the other nurgle daemons are good though so don't be put off on nurgle. the best elite choice for me is bloodcrushers


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## spudboy

Katie Drake said:


> - The model is awful.


You're dead on there.

As for being slow... isn't that Nurgle forces in a nutshell? Hypothetically, combined with heavy ranged weapons (daemons with Reaper launchers??), sure, but otherwise, they may not have that much going for them after all.

Plus, if the rumors about 5th are true, you won't even be able to plop them on an objective and let them eat bullets for the rest of the game. They won't count. (Hope I'm not discussing anything verboten here...)


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## cooldudeskillz

Na, your reniforcing the idea of the beast of nurgle being useless


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## spudboy

cooldudeskillz said:


> Na, your reniforcing the idea of the beast of nurgle being useless


I'm just not so sure they are, though, don't worry. I can see the drawbacks, but with that extra wound and their native nurgle-ness, effectively they are bullet traps. You can plink at them until dawn and they'll still be kicking.

Individually, though, they might not be so useful. I can see that now. In a group of 3+ serving as a vanguard to basically block advancing infantry in their tracks... there might be potential. More research, methinks.


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## cooldudeskillz

but plaguebearers serve that job well


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## spudboy

cooldudeskillz said:


> but plaguebearers serve that job well


True. For a smaller points game with lots of open troop slots, plaguebearers get the job done cheaper. Up to 7 attacks on the charge might not be worth it after all...

Still, something about playing daemons that makes me want to believe the dice are on my side...


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## cooldudeskillz

spudboy said:


> True. For a smaller points game with lots of open troop slots, plaguebearers get the job done cheaper. Up to 7 attacks on the charge might not be worth it after all...
> 
> Still, something about playing daemons that makes me want to believe the dice are on my side...


mmmm we all hope that


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## Katie Drake

spudboy said:


> Still, something about playing daemons that makes me want to believe the dice are on my side...


If my luck is any indication of how Daemon players are treated by the Dice Gods, than I'd have to say that you're barking up the wrong tree there.

... not that my terrible rolls have cost me games. I just tend to lost a unit or two to bad _Deep Strikes_.


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## cooldudeskillz

i normally deepstrike where i wan't or better, but when i combine my chaos marines and daemons then icons from chaos marines infiltrarting get the job done:victory:


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## darklove

If you deepstrike a unit on your first turn that has an icon, will units that you deep strike after it not scatter if you place them near it? Or does the icon need to be on the table a full turn?


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## bobafett012

darklove said:


> If you deepstrike a unit on your first turn that has an icon, will units that you deep strike after it not scatter if you place them near it? Or does the icon need to be on the table a full turn?


i believe the icon has to be on the table at the start of the turn.


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## cooldudeskillz

bobafett012 said:


> i believe the icon has to be on the table at the start of the turn.


yep, unfortunley


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## spudboy

Katie Drake said:


> If my luck is any indication of how Daemon players are treated by the Dice Gods, than I'd have to say that you're barking up the wrong tree there.
> 
> ... not that my terrible rolls have cost me games. I just tend to lost a unit or two to bad _Deep Strikes_.


I'm not getting my hopes too high. The GW shop downtown (Tokyo) did a daemons event when the codex and models were released, and the stories I've heard from them were... interesting.


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## Phenius

I've found that deep striking your first wave into cold areas helps alot, instead of dropping right away into the thick of it. Soulgrinders usually go right in the middle of it, and for small 1500 pts games I use two just so that no matter what happens, I have one comming down first turn.

Using a mix of khorne, tzeentch, and a squad of daemonettes as meatshields for the masque, I've only had problems withs Nidzilla armies, and hordes.
I also field either very large squads (let's say 15 bloodletters) or lots of very small ones (5 each), finding that for objective based missions, the many little squads work better than one large squad. And I never use nurgle, no matter who tries to convince me otherwise.

Flamers, IMO, are the best deep strikers. And screamers are just sick for head hunting, or those rushing cheldar lists.

And the Masque...Beaut! When the retard that's laughing at you for having those heavy weapon squads, thinking your daemonettes are minced meat...Well, it's just nice to see the look on their faces 

That's just my experience so far though.


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## newsun

Phenius said:


> I've found that deep striking your first wave into cold areas helps alot, instead of dropping right away into the thick of it. Soulgrinders usually go right in the middle of it, and for small 1500 pts games I use two just so that no matter what happens, I have one comming down first turn.
> 
> Using a mix of khorne, tzeentch, and a squad of daemonettes as meatshields for the masque, I've only had problems withs Nidzilla armies, and hordes.
> I also field either very large squads (let's say 15 bloodletters) or lots of very small ones (5 each), finding that for objective based missions, the many little squads work better than one large squad. And I never use nurgle, no matter who tries to convince me otherwise.
> 
> Flamers, IMO, are the best deep strikers. And screamers are just sick for head hunting, or those rushing cheldar lists.
> 
> And the Masque...Beaut! When the retard that's laughing at you for having those heavy weapon squads, thinking your daemonettes are minced meat...Well, it's just nice to see the look on their faces
> 
> That's just my experience so far though.


You realize Masque is not IC so cannot join nettes and nettes are only T3 with a subpar save.


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## Phenius

Yes I do, but subpar save and T3, you bring them in in the same area as the masque and you give your opponent more targets, and considering how much cheaper the daemonettes are you can afford to lose some, and they usually tend to shoot the lone ranger dropping down as an easy target, so either way you look at it, unless you drop them in the middle of the whole enemy army, you'll be able to cause damage with one or the other, and moving them with the masque can save you from much bigger damage.


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## Heffay

*Um...*

I dont see anything in either the rulebook or the daemon codex that says the Masque cant join a unit of Daemonettes. Can someone please clarify what everyones talking about, and point me to where it is in the rulebook.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

The Masque does not have the 'Independent Character rule, and as such, may not use the Independent Character rules for joining units.


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## Flayed 0ne

on Beasts of Nurgle...

http://sfsfw.blogspot.com/2010/09/new-nurgle-chaos-models-from-warhammer.html

...putting the Beast of Nurgle "turd" model to rest ... Forge World - Nurgle Plague Toads...now can we find a use for Beasts of Nurgle?...cause those models are so sick i ~have~ to use them...

...it seems that one or two beats wouldnt be much help...but a full squad of seven beasts?...seems a pretty monsterous prospect...with two wounds each, random poison attacks, noxious touch and feel no pain at a lower cost than Bloodcrushers...seems like a solid choice...but only if you take a full squad...and one squad only...im thinking for my own purposes of running Nurgle and Khorne...two squads of Crushers and a full squad of Beasts for Elite slots...


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## unendingchaos

Why would you want to take beasts of nurgle when you could just take blood crushers they are WAY better and only a few points more they have power weapons and furious charge not to mention the better armour save weapon skill strength intative the potential for more attacks and they can take an icon and for just 5 more points


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## Epidemius

I'd say (assuming you run an undivided list) that for the first wave to drop guys like plaguebearers (w/ icons); they can soak up a ton of damage and keep on going. Another good first wave unit, so I've heard, are horrors; because they can shoot after they deepstrike (I actually don't have experience with Tzeentch, I just run Nurgle).


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