# The Tactical Sergeant



## Grinnsira (Jan 5, 2010)

I just want some opinions on how to best equip the sgt in a tactical squad.

I know for the PF it is easy to give them a combi weapon. Normally I go with the combi-flamer. I learned not to combat squad a PF because he dies most of the time before attacking. I started looking at using PWs with the sgt for units I plan on combat squading and placing them in razorbacks but should I go with the combi-flamer or the pistol?

What are your thoughts?


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

To be honest, try avoiding CC weapons altogether for the sergeant in general because with only 2 attacks base and with such a small squad size (even with ten), if you ever do get into close-combat you're either generally doomed from the start (such as getting charged by 30 Ork Boyz or 15 genestealers) so your likely going to die right off the bat before using it or in the cases where you do charge (unlikely) let's say against a Tau Fire Warrior squad it will be overkill. Typically tactical squads are mediocre in combat with only 1 attack each, they are normally most effective at around the 12" area where they can double-tap their bolters and any other close-ranged special weapons, so gearing the sergeant towards CC is a little counterproductive.

So save the points and give him a combi-weapon based upon what your squad is geared towards. Generally however the combi-melta is probably the best as it helps give you a chance to take out nearby tanks and dreadnoughts.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

PFs are sometimes worth it for ID, vehicles, or being assaulted by walkers


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## VX485 (Feb 17, 2011)

Pretty solid stuff been said, if you do decide to give them a PW just go with a PF, having a st 8 attack in CC can save your hide against walkers and MC. That said you should use the squad to hold an objecive or go after others. Leave the CC to the assault marines


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

If your marines are dying in a single combat round, then you've done something wrong or been incredibly unlucky. By "doing something wrong" I mean allowing them to be charged by a specialist close combat unit. Normal combat units or other ranged units find it extremely difficult to kill many tactical marines in a single round.

Against a lot of combat units - for example Wyches or Orks or Gaunts - you are far better off diving into combat rather than rapid-firing weapons at them. Denying them Furious Charge and the extra attack is massively important, and you shouldn't hesitate to do it. Without FC or the +1A for assaulting, 30 Orks only kill 3 tactical marines and lose 4-5 men themselves, plus 2-3 more from Fearless. This picture only gets worse for them if you add in the 10 pistols/flamer shot that the Tac squad might push out before charging. Sure, the Tac squad will probably slowly die, but they've stopped a big mass of Boyz dead for a few turns, which is all you need.

The charge is even more important for Tyranids, because they need it to make the Toxin/Adrenal combo work. Against units smaller than 30 then the Tac squad just gets better, because they might actually wear down the enemy first. 10 Wyches (assuming +1WS for drugs) only cause 5 wounds on Marines, and take about 3 casualties back. Not great, but better than if they had gotten the charge, and again we're ignoring pre-combat pistols.

I put powerfists and combi-meltas on my sergeants and have never really regretted it, ever. If he dies before attacking then you faced off against the wrong unit or were unlucky, so either work on your tactics or your dice rolling! :laugh:


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## Grinnsira (Jan 5, 2010)

Sethis said:


> If your marines are dying in a single combat round, then you've done something wrong or been incredibly unlucky. By "doing something wrong" I mean allowing them to be charged by a specialist close combat unit. Normal combat units or other ranged units find it extremely difficult to kill many tactical marines in a single round.QUOTE]
> 
> its as a combat squad of 5 that they normally die before the fist attacks. I have seen them last in a 10 man squad. I was just asking about the combat squading of a unit to grab an obj in the RB. I want to go with the PW and just thinking between a pistol and a combi weapon. Is the +1 extra attack worth it?


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Grinnsira said:


> its as a combat squad of 5 that they normally die before the fist attacks. I have seen them last in a 10 man squad. I was just asking about the combat squading of a unit to grab an obj in the RB. I want to go with the PW and just thinking between a pistol and a combi weapon. Is the +1 extra attack worth it?


Again, if your marines are dying before striking then you're doing it wrong. It doesn't matter if there's 10 men or 1 marine - if they are dying before killing anything themselves then you have not weighed up the opposition correctly. Either that or you WANT them to die, one or the other. If you only have 5 marines, engage units half the strength of what you would otherwise engage with 10.


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## Grinnsira (Jan 5, 2010)

Thats what I'm doing wrong. All this time I thought 5 marines could take 20 orks and a powerklaw.


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

Sethis said:


> Again, if your marines are dying before striking then you're doing it wrong. It doesn't matter if there's 10 men or 1 marine - if they are dying before killing anything themselves then you have not weighed up the opposition correctly. Either that or you WANT them to die, one or the other.


I'll vouch for this statement personally.

I charged 4 Chaos Raptors (same thing as an Assault Marine squad) into an IG Infantry blob of about 30 models. I lost 2 Raptors, he lost the entire squad from a Sweeping Advance.

Well said Sethis


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## vonklaude (May 16, 2010)

Grinnsira said:


> I just want some opinions on how to best equip the sgt in a tactical squad.
> 
> I know for the PF it is easy to give them a combi weapon. Normally I go with the combi-flamer. I learned not to combat squad a PF because he dies most of the time before attacking. I started looking at using PWs with the sgt for units I plan on combat squading and placing them in razorbacks but should I go with the combi-flamer or the pistol?
> 
> What are your thoughts?


Don't give him anything. Why pay more for tax?!

Particularly do not give him combi-weapons. He pays over the odds for them. Of the other possibilities, a PW is okayish. PFs can work well in some circumstances, but a lot of the time the points spent on them will be wasted (and they are not cheap).




Sethis said:


> Against a lot of combat units - for example Wyches or Orks or Gaunts - you are far better off diving into combat rather than rapid-firing weapons at them. Denying them Furious Charge and the extra attack is massively important, and you shouldn't hesitate to do it.


But... what are they doing outside their cosy rhino?


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

vonklaude said:


> But... what are they doing outside their cosy rhino?


Killing things - more than they could kill by shooting out the top hatch. Having 400+ points never contributing to the game apart from hiding in a pair of Rhinos is not efficient. Tactical Marines can kill things - the trick is picking out the right target. There are also several situations where an assault move will get you closer to an objective than a tank would - e.g in buildings, against models with meltaguns/MCs/Walkers and so on.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

All Of The Upgrades.


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## Mikeybx (Jul 8, 2009)

Does all this advise go for guardsmen seargants or is it a complietely different story ?


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## Arkanor (Jan 1, 2010)

Mikeybx said:


> Does all this advise go for guardsmen seargants or is it a complietely different story ?


Guardsmen will likely just get routed before they hit, they aren't I4 to my knowledge, and crumble much faster.

I wouldn't waste money on guardsman powerfist/power weapon, they're cheap enough to just write off.


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## Luisjoey (Dec 3, 2010)

how is killed the Sargent? with 4 or more extra wounds... 

usually it pays to use the sargent with PF , they deal good against vehicles and usually deals good vs enemy troops or monstrous creatures.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Mikeybx said:


> Does all this advise go for guardsmen seargants or is it a complietely different story ?


Unless you're going for a blob squad platoon, leave all upgrades except meltaguns at home. However 50 men in a squad with about 8 power weapons available (with 42 ablative wounds) can actually make a mess of Marines/Terminators. Especially with the Stubborn Ld9 reroll.


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