# Blood Angel Heavy Support



## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Hello all.

I am currently building up my Blood Angels force to 1.5k for tournaments at that level.

I would like to know what other players use for fire support at this points level and how effective that choice has been.

A devastator squad with 4 missile launchers seems to be a popular choice although I personally am tempted to take 2 lascannons and 2 heavy bolters in combat squaded devastator unit.

Any thoughts?


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Devs are always a solid choice, though their main drawback (cost) is compounded with Blood Angels.

Going with mixed weapons and combat squadding them is a fun idea, effectively getting two different fire support units for your buck. however, in Escalation games that squad is going to have to deploy from reserves, which means they'll come mixed together and you can't separate them. Which means half the time you won't be getting th most use out of the squad.

If you're like me and play mainly friendly games with people who all hate Escalation, then it shouldn't be a problem. But in tournies and the like it could be a pain in the ass.

Four Missile Launchers is a good solid unit. It can tackle heavy armor and it can pepper troop squads with frag. And you can still split them up and have two squads with 2 launchers each and hit different targets.

However, don't neglect the tanks. They're pretty cheap and they give you mobile firepower (which fits very well with the BA theme). The Baal predator is an excellent heavy support unit, particularly if you're a little low on anti-troop. Otherwise, Annihilators with heavy bolter sponsons are a good choice.

I prefer not to take laser sponsons. They're too expensive and if you move you've wasted points.

Vindicators are fun, but realize you;re basically buying a 125 point decoy. Every gun is going to go after it, so use it to draw fire away from other units. Unfortunately, our extra armor upgrades cost more and, appallingly, they didn't give us Machine Spirit as an upgrade option! So the good ole Doomshovel is going to break very easily in a BA list.

but it's big and it;s scary, so if you have a bunch of melta bikes or some fragile transports, throwing in a vindicator is a good way to keep those weaker, high-priority units alive long enough to do their job.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Actually Galahad, I'm fairly certain that unless the Devastators take a transport they'd be able to deploy normally in Escalation-style games. The rest of your advice looks to be spot on, though.

Katie D


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

swntzu said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I am currently building up my Blood Angels force to 1.5k for tournaments at that level.
> 
> ...


My personal faviroute for devastators are 3 Missile launchers and 1 plasma cannon. It works quite well, as long as i dont roll a 1 to hit i should be alright. But i've used this in 2 - 3 games now, and 4 targets in one squad isnt a bad thing especially when your main opponent plays marines and i have an AP2 S8 weapon... Cause it helps when you wound on a 2+ and they take a auto wound, well in fact, against a commander libby or chaplain, they would all die instantly... Niiiiiice lol


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Marneus Calgar said:


> i have an AP2 S8 weapon...


Krak missiles aren't AP2 and plasma cannons aren't S8, so I'm kinda confused. :\

Katie D


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## Alias2003 (Feb 7, 2008)

Based on advice I received from katie and a few others recently, I would suggest Assault Bikes with multi-meltas. They have proven to be a very resilient and can do a lot of dmg. I split them up into seperate squadrons so I can target different units with them. ML are the way to go IMO because they can be effective anti-infantry or anti-tank. are great against vehicles but lose their effectiveness against Infantry.

Goodluck

Alias


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Alias2003 said:


> Based on advice I received from katie and a few others recently, I would suggest Assault Bikes with multi-meltas. They have proven to be a very resilient and can do a lot of dmg. I split them up into seperate squadrons so I can target different units with them. ML are the way to go IMO because they can be effective anti-infantry or anti-tank. are great against vehicles but lose their effectiveness against Infantry.
> 
> Goodluck
> 
> Alias


This is the way I go as well.

Three squads of two Multi Melta Attack Bikes comes in at 300 pts. Dishes out a lot of firepower and causes a real threat when boosted forward on the first turn. Get them in tight behind a piece of cover and you can pretty much guarantee they're popping a piece of armour or two the next turn. Fielding units of two means the opponent has to wipe out the entire squad to claim any VP's or stop it from scoring. 

I usually back this up with two of the following. Pred (any build), Dreadnought or Vindi.

Blood Angels are all about timing and moving your army into a position where you can bring as much of it to bare in one devastating turn. Cripple the enemy and prevent them retaliating.

The beauty of the current BA codex is the ability to field a fully mobile list, ram it down the opponents throat and watch him sweat as he figures out whether to shoot the DC, Bikes, Assault Marines or Preds backing up the front runners. He's getting fisted or blasted whatever he does.

If you're taking it in turns to place terrain plump a piece of level three in the middle and use it as a stepping stone to close the distance. Cheeky but usually does the trick.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Katie Drake said:


> Actually Galahad, I'm fairly certain that unless the Devastators take a transport they'd be able to deploy normally in Escalation-style games. The rest of your advice looks to be spot on, though.
> 
> Katie D


Whoops, good call Katie. For some reason my brain said 'only basic troops deploy normally' instead of basic infantry. But as I said, I don't use escalation much :grin:

So, yeah, a mixed weapon squad isn;t a bad idea. It depends largely upon what your list is lacking.

As for attack bikes, I didn't mention them because the question was about heavy support but, truth be told, the attack bikes do provide most of my anti-tank these days. Think of them as mobile heavy support ;-)

A note on the bikes though: Keep them solo if you can. If you employ more than 3 then squad them up in pairs, they;re easier to maneuver that way and three meltas is usually overkill. Just remember, if one of them dies you have to make Last Man Standing checks (but you can rally afterwards and move back into position if you fail)


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Hmmm. Thanks for all the advice. I think I'll get myself a devastator box and stick that with the extra marines in my battleforce to make a 2 HB 2LC devvie squad.

Hijacking my own thread, I like to ask if any of you have found a use for normal bike squadrons.

The Ravenwing box comes with 6 of them and I was wondering whether to keep or flog them.

Keeping on the fast attack theme, Land Speeder Tornados. Worth it? Even when you're moving fast they can be downed by bolters. :S


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

I don't think they're an option for 100pts. I've had to totally rethink my speeder spam BA style with the points increase.

I personally don't use them. Well I did once and managed to smash a double lash list but it was more luck than anything with Meph's hood negating 4-5 lash attempts in a row.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

As to regular bikes, I've never had much use of them, unless you count buying the sidecar bits from warstore and turning them into attack bikes ;-)

I would reccomend getting one box of ravenwing bikes and the parts to convert them into attack bikes...the extra bits sprue from the ravenwing bix is very nice if you like converting.

As to using bikes for their intended purpose...our list is expensive enough as it is and Bikes just don't bring enough to justify their points (especially considering they don't grant DC). Yes, they;re fast and have (mediocre) assault capability, and they can make a good mobile gunline, able to move and fire bolters at long range bit they;re just too expensive. Especially considering you can slap some meltas into a 5 man HG or a VAS unit and basically do the same job but be better at assault


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Galahad said:


> As to regular bikes, I've never had much use of them, unless you count buying the sidecar bits from warstore and turning them into attack bikes ;-)
> 
> I would reccomend getting one box of ravenwing bikes and the parts to convert them into attack bikes...the extra bits sprue from the ravenwing bix is very nice if you like converting.
> 
> As to using bikes for their intended purpose...our list is expensive enough as it is and Bikes just don't bring enough to justify their points (especially considering they don't grant DC). Yes, they;re fast and have (mediocre) assault capability, and they can make a good mobile gunline, able to move and fire bolters at long range bit they;re just too expensive. Especially considering you can slap some meltas into a 5 man HG or a VAS unit and basically do the same job but be better at assault


Thanks again. I forgot that the sidecar just adds on to an attack bike. I think I'll try and get my hands on the ravenwing battleforce and do as you suggested. The land speeder is just too cool to pass up.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I never picked up the RW battleforce, but I know the ravenwing bike squad was a worthy investment. 

Unfortunately Warstore has jacked up their prices for the sidecar bits since last time I bought. It's $12 for the sidecar, plus $4 for a melta. So it's not really a moneysaver ($76 if you buy the ravenwing bike swuad and 3 MM sidecars from Warstore, vs $60 if you just buy 3 attack bikes. So you;re paying $16 for the upgrade sprue, in effect)


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## Archangel41 (Mar 9, 2008)

Well personally I'm fond of a Baal (pronounced ball) breaker formation. Two Ball predators and a shaft of infantry between them. But seriously two Baals and two ten man tactical squads with missile launchers, flamers, and a sarge with a power fist that you combat squad is a pretty good combo in my experience.


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

if you plan on getting a Ravenwing Battleforce
i believe you have to special order or buy from the online store
b/c my local stores said they dont sell them anymore at store locations


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## noodles87 (Jan 29, 2008)

1 dev squad, 10 marines 2 lascannons and at least one missile launcher or replace one lascannon with a plasma cannon i always find to be fairly effective


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## Eneishi (Mar 6, 2008)

Recently, I have been using a preditor and a dev squad with 2 las and 2 missle launchers. I have seen many people play with 4 lascannons, but they are expensive. 

I've never used them in a transport before though, so I couldn't help you out there. I simply keep them back behind some kind of cover, and make sure they're in range of one of the other person's heavy support units... Hopefully a tank, or even a dreadnaught. Being able to effectivly take out enemy armor quickly, with the least amount of points, is the most important part of a Blood Angel army.


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## 40rending (Jan 3, 2008)

a simple tactic which i have used to great success is a devi squad with 4 lascannons, droped down two to combat squads and both placed in rhinos, that gives you 2 sigle lascannon shots per rhino(through the roof hatch) as well as a storm bolter and hunter killer to shoot.


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## sneakNINJA (Jan 24, 2008)

Personally I have the 9 attack bike/ 3 baal predator plan going. The bikes are responsible for dealing with heavy armor, while the baals can cause big problems for non-marine armies. Generally Baals need to get two volleys off in a game to have a chance at paying off their points cost. The upside to them is the ability to get the assault cannon to almost any location by using overcharge.

Ever since squad-screening got nixed, I have never played devastators, and have yet to regret it. Dev squads make you pay a huge point premium (and mobility) for a little bit more flexibility in firepower, and the ability to use combat squads. I would especially discourage it in BA, since you're already paying a premium for the "free" death company, as well as paying for the veteran sergeant that you don't need. The big advantage of BA is their mobility (jet packs and attack bikes) and their flexibility (CC armies are able to create favorable matchups with shooting armies by simply tying them up and blocking LOS). Dev squads give you something completely different (and are more likely to be ignored), but IMO it is better to play a lot of units that demand to be killed rather than to play units that your opponent can afford to ignore or put off. Attack bikes demand to be killed, threatening automatic destruction of any vehicle. Baal predators create problems because they can damage 10/11 armor vehicles pretty consistently, or force a squad to take several "dork" casualties, opening them up for the threat of attack bike meltas. Throw in a squad of death company with a chaplain (re-roll rending attacks at I5), and there are multiple squads that demand heavy weapons, but are strong against dakka shooting (a13 predtors, t5 bikes w/ 2 wounds, and feel no pain w/ 3+ saves). That said, if the devastators go with your strategy better, use them.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

A tactic I've been using lately is to shoot up units with my weapons that fire only a few shots like Devastators, bolters, pistols and the like until there's only a few models left and then letting loose into the survivors with a Baal Predator or two. It's really easy in this manner to get enough wounds to cause Torrent of Fire and I've had some pretty good luck in knocking out special/heavy weapons or unit champions this way.

After a few games (most notably tonight's) I've decided that 3 Baal Predators is perfect for my 1850 point list. In smaller games I recommend just taking more Attack Bikes, though.


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## sneakNINJA (Jan 24, 2008)

Just for reference, I'm a dirty min-maxer. 1500pt list:

HQ: Lemartes (125)

Troops:
5 Man Assault Squad (140)
5 Man Tactical Squad (115)

Elites: 
10 DC + Jet packs (290pts)

Fast Attack:
9 Attack Bikes (450pts)
Heavy:
3 Baals (375)

1495pts, add meltabombs if desired or switch lemartes for a 2 wound chaplain and give jetpack sergeant a power weapon. Pretty much everything demands to be shot with heavy weapons, and resists dakka. What I don't like about Dev's is that I am paying 50 pts for a lascannon that can't move, or paying 50 pts for a bike with a mobile multi-melta (side armor advantage) that is t5 with two wounds, and can charge shooting squads that are bad at assault and kill them. I might be able to justify rocket launchers in dev squads, depending on the opponent (obviously not against imperium vehicles). A five man dev squad with four las cannons is something like 300pts for five dudes (obviously you'd add five more guys, putting it closer to 400pts for four las cannons. At that point we might as well consider adding a land raider instead, since it has two las cannons that will almost automatically hit and armor 14). Still, 175pts(ish? I don't remember what the DC premium is for devastators) for a ten man squad before the heavy weapons already exceeds 3 mobile multi-meltas, and with weapons is likely to cost two baal predators in points. If your 250 pt dev squad (you could do something like 2 cannons and 2 HB, or maybe four rockets) is better than either five attack bikes or two baal predators, play the dev squad.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

40rending said:


> a simple tactic which i have used to great success is a devi squad with 4 lascannons, droped down two to combat squads and both placed in rhinos...


Not sure this actually legal. Doesn't your selection of transport have to be before the unit is 'combat squaded', ie you only get one transport per FOC unit entry - no matter how that unit is organised on the battlefield?

I'm prepared to admit I may be wrong on this, so other opinions gratefully received (if I am wrong though, why doesn't every BA army have 18 laserbacks in it?)


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## 40rending (Jan 3, 2008)

here is a clarification

2, 10 man devastator squads with 4 lass cannons a piece, break down to tactical squads so you have 4 squads with two lascannons in each, load two 5man squads in a rhino each as a mobile gunline(4 lascanon shots will usually kill of any enemy tanks)

ps... dont forget the overcharged engines


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Sorry, I didn't get that you were running 2x10 dev squads... thought you were popping two combat squads from the same 10-man unit in Rhinos. In which case, I withdraw my objection! Carry on!


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