# A trainwreck in the making, or?



## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

I were browsing Lexicanum when I found this page: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mortarion's_Heart

Either it will make Kaldor Draigo into an interesting character and reedem the over the top writting, or it will seal his fate as a caricature.


Edit:
Found a related page:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marine_Battles_(Novel_Series)#Mortarion.27s_Heart


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## Sequere_me_in_Tenebras (Nov 11, 2012)

After reading L J Goulding's 'Last Watch' I am not confident of his ability with prose. Which is harsh of me to say I realise. Maybe a audio drama will suit him.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Not too sure about this... But hey, at least there should now be clarification for how Draigo performed this ouh so mighty deed. Was Mortarion taking a shit when Draigo burst in into his bathroom? Was he accompanied by three dozen Dreadknights that pinned Mortarion down while he carved in the name? Was it all a bad joke made by mr.Ward to piss of the fanboy community over a little detail?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

This could be a very good thing. It could make Draigo's victory over Mortarion understandable, explain how he managed this incredible feat.

And of course the completely f*cking awesome fact that it has a Daemon-Primarch in it!!! That's Daemon-Angron and now Daemon-Mortarion we'll have seen. Hopefully we'll get to see Daemon-Magnus next.


LotN


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Oh god, that just sounds like a massive GK wank-fest. It's bad enough that its in the GK dex but now they are actually expanding on it. Abnett could write that and it would still be shite.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Jacobite said:


> Oh god, that just sounds like a massive GK wank-fest. It's bad enough that its in the GK dex but now they are actually expanding on it. Abnett could write that and it would still be shite.


How do you know that??

If the Daemon Primarchs were invincible then the Imperium would have fallen already. They are beatable, and this audio-drama hopefully will explain how one does that. How is it that the Daemon-Primarchs can be beaten, that is a question that needs to be answered.

Give the thing a chance before you blast it.


LotN


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## Xisor (Oct 1, 2011)

Jacobite said:


> Oh god, that just sounds like a massive GK wank-fest. It's bad enough that its in the GK dex but now they are actually expanding on it. Abnett could write that and it would still be shite.


Well said*, that man.

I quite enjoyed _Mountain Eater_ a while back, I always felt a good massive wank-fest** would make a decent story.



* What a lot of embarrassing nonsense.
** The 'dex might be OTT, but with both tongue-in-cheek emphasis and the overture that Draigo might as well be the Emperor/Star Child trying to come (back) into existence... well, it's got a hell of a lot more interesting detail to the utter tripe trotted out by folks doing their best to sound like mindless idiots.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Hmmm my bullshit detector just exploded reading the description of events on Lexi.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I dunno, I utterly despise that piece of fluff on Draigo, along with most of his fluff actually, never has a bigger mary-sue been seen in 40k. This whole Mortarion incident though just doesn't sit right. Aurellian banishing Daemon-Angron and his retinue on Armageddon at the cost of ninety-six Grey Knights Terminators including Aurellian himself was suitably epic. 

Draigo carving Geronitans name into Mortarions heart just sounds absurd, I'm not sure I even want to know what over the top way they are going to have to come up with to subdue a daemon Primarch long enough to carve something into his heart.

I hate audio books enough as it is, so I certainly won't be buying it, will wait out on here to see how much of a farce it is though.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Lord of the Night said:


> How do you know that??
> 
> If the Daemon Primarchs were invincible then the Imperium would have fallen already. They are beatable, and this audio-drama hopefully will explain how one does that. How is it that the Daemon-Primarchs can be beaten, that is a question that needs to be answered.
> 
> ...





Xisor said:


> Well said*, that man.
> 
> I quite enjoyed _Mountain Eater_ a while back, I always felt a good massive wank-fest** would make a decent story.
> 
> ...


When have I ever said that a Deamon Primarchs were invincible? Never. I actually think that the story of how the First War for Armageddon was won is one of the best heroic tragedies in 40k i.e. 109 GK Termintors assault Angron and his bodyguard of 12 blood thirsters, of only 13 GK's survive after just managing to banish Angron back into the warp for 100 years and a day. That's of course with the sacrifice of the Brother Captain who actually dealt the banishing blow, and thats in the real realm not in the Warp. And one GK can wander around the Warp (where deamons are at their strongest) smacking chaos creatures left right and center? Yea thats not OTT at all...

So no the question of how one defeats a Deamon Primarch has already been answered, in more than one publication.

So the old fluff is "utter tripe" is it LOTN? OK buddy, enjoy your "tongue in cheek" Space Wolves Wolf Guard riding Thunderwolves armed with a wolf claw and the mark of Wulfen, or a Nemesis Dreadknight in dreadnight armour armed with 2 Nemesis doomfists. Thats not tongue in check thats a childishly simplistic hammering of one single facet of a races characteristics for 9 year olds because they can't handle anything more complex and its becoming more and more common with the fluff. If by "utter tripe" you mean slightly more complex than a snap fit kitset, then yes, yes it is. 

If you actually think that GW is bring back the star child mythos via Drago then you sir have been taking some happy pills that I'd love to have. The star child mythos is dead and gone I'm afraid, GW an't bringing that back. Drago is simply a uber pwner character that Ward shoved in there to sell minis to 9 year olds. He's not tragic at all, "oh I can't go home or see my mates for anything more than 2 hours at a time while we are fighting" is not tragic, being forced to work to death in a labour camp and sterilized after defending your planet against the horrors of the warp is tragic, your entire world being obliterated simply because you heard a story about the actions of some storm troopers is tragic. "you can't see your mates" boo fucking hoo.


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## Xisor (Oct 1, 2011)

Jacobite said:


> If you actually think that GW is bring back the star child mythos via Drago then you sir have been taking some happy pills that I'd love to have. The star child mythos is dead and gone I'm afraid, GW an't bringing that back.


I guess the Cabal, the Perpetuals, the much alluded uniqueness of the Grey Knights as 'children of the Emperor' in the same manner as Space Marines are children of their primarchs...

Totally imagined.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

There's been no concrete mention of the Star Child since 3rd edition... so yea its imagined.

You can find allusions to something all you like, doesn't make it true. 

You honestly think that a dex which has fluff and language as simplistic as the 5th edition GK one is setting up an end game like the Star Child? Really? 

If you are right I will actually consume a Drago model, literally I will cut it up and eat it.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Jacobite said:


> So the old fluff is "utter tripe" is it LOTN? OK buddy, enjoy your "tongue in cheek" Space Wolves Wolf Guard riding Thunderwolves armed with a wolf claw and the mark of Wulfen, or a Nemesis Dreadknight in dreadnight armour armed with 2 Nemesis doomfists. Thats not tongue in check thats a childishly simplistic hammering of one single facet of a races characteristics for 9 year olds because they can't handle anything more complex and its becoming more and more common with the fluff. If by "utter tripe" you mean slightly more complex than a snap fit kitset, then yes, yes it is.


What the hell are you on about?? I did not say the old lore is "utter tripe" and I do not believe that for a second.


I do not believe that Draigo is overpowered for a few reasons.

First. He DOES NOT ever achieve anything during his time in the Warp beyond survival. Everything he destroys and every Daemon he defeats merely reforms when he leaves. Draigo has spent aeons in the Warp and has achieved nothing except for still being alive, which is impressive but he isn't in there slaughtering Daemons behind enemy lines. He's just keeping himself alive for as long as he can.

Second. He is the Supreme. Grand. Master. Of the Grey Freaking Knights. The guys whose presence is poison to Daemons and who can actually banish some Lesser Daemons just by standing there. The guys who are literally one in a million. And Draigo is their leader, the best of them all among 1000 of the Imperium's greatest heroes and most powerful psykers who all carry the gene-seed of the Emperor himself. Why the hell shouldn't he be able to fight against a powerful foe like Mortarion?? When you consider exactly what Draigo is, it's not that farfetched that he could be powerful enough to battle Mortarion and live. I don't think he'd win unaided but I don't think Mortarion could just sweep him aside like he's nothing because Draigo isn't nothing.

Third. I don't think Draigo would just waltz up to Mortarion and defeat him in a single blow. Nor do I believe the fight would be anything but a hard-fought epic clash that would be impossible to predict even for the best foresight psykers around. Both Draigo and Mortarion are fearsome prospects in battle and any fight between them would be epic in scale, the power that they both possess clashing against the other. The power of the Warp and the power of the Emperor. As for how he bound Mortarion I would assume he used the hexagrammic wards and other such things that the Grey Knights use to bind Daemons all the time. My bet is he fought Mortarion long enough that he could bind him for a time, then carved Gerontian's name into his heart as revenge, and then performed the banishing ritual. And likely many Grey Knights died in that ritual as well, but Draigo lived.

Regarding Kaldor Draigo I believe simply one thing. We need more explanation of him. He needs to be fleshed out and pretty much everything about him needs to be explained further, so that we can understand how he achieved these feats rather than just the Codex telling us he did them. The explanation of something is always better than just the informing of it. Yes he beat Mortarion, but HOW did he do it?? We'll find out in this audio-drama which will hopefully end some of the complaints about Draigo.


LotN


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## Xisor (Oct 1, 2011)

Jacobite said:


> There's been no concrete mention of the Star Child since 3rd edition... so yea its imagined.
> 
> You can find allusions to something all you like, doesn't make it true.
> 
> ...


On one hand you're outraged about the simplicity and childishness of the names (wolfy mcwolfson riding wolf wielding wolftooth wolfaxe of the wolfdom in the wolftime...), yet on the other you won't accept even the interesting possibility of something even slightly more complicated without it being explicitly stated?

I'm inclined to be as outraged as you, to a certain extent. I like my conspiracy theories in fiction (they're so much more plausible than in reality). When were the Illuminati last mentioned? The Sensei? The Shamans?

Because, frankly, we've got super-secret cabals trying to steer the course of history (Cabal), we've got uber-potent, nigh-incorruptible 'genetic sons of the Emperor' (Grey Knights), we've got Thorians coming out the wazoo (well, actually, _The Thorians_ was the only proper expansion to the _Inquisitor_ game - I doubt if that really counts as 'the wazoo', you get the idea), we've got reincarnating ancient people from time immemorial (Shamans)... So, when I read that Kaldor Draigo, one of the genetic sons of the Emperor and possibly most powerful super-person running about out there...

I think Thorians.
He can survive in the warp?
The Chaos Gods are trying to prevent (or just outright successfully preventing) his return to the materium?

He's a candidate for the Emperor's reincarnation, if ever there was. _Of course that doesn't need to be explicitly stated_. 

None of that detracts from the hamfistedness of the GK codex, of course, the tepid and on-the-nose imagery and so forth. Fortunately, the topic of discussion is _seeing what an author does with that_. 

Yet, of course, it's definitely going to be a GK-wank fest. k:


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Lord of the Night said:


> I do not believe that Draigo is overpowered for a few reasons.
> 
> First. He DOES NOT ever achieve anything during his time in the Warp beyond survival. Everything he destroys and every Daemon he defeats merely reforms when he leaves. Draigo has spent aeons in the Warp and has achieved nothing except for still being alive, which is impressive but he isn't in there slaughtering Daemons behind enemy lines. He's just keeping himself alive for as long as he can. Well no he is slaughtering deamons behind enemy lines, thats exactly what he's doing, how else is he staying alive, its not like he is running the entire time: he has set fire to nurgles domain, killed the 6 chosen of slannesh and destroyed the fortress of M'Kachan, he's not running away from trouble, hes seeking it out and destroying it... all in the belly of the beast. If a deamon was doing that in the real realm all the SM fan boys would be up in arms about it.
> 
> ...


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Xisor said:


> On one hand you're outraged about the simplicity and childishness of the names (wolfy mcwolfson riding wolf wielding wolftooth wolfaxe of the wolfdom in the wolftime...), yet on the other you won't accept even the interesting possibility of something even slightly more complicated without it being explicitly stated?


It hasn't been mentioned since 3rd edition. What else do you want? You would think that something as epic as the star child would be mentioned in something, anything, simply saying that "possibly most powerful super-person running about out there" isn't enough to make the leap between him simply be a genetically modified man and the Emporer reborn. Before him who was the most powerful man in the Imperium? Calgar? Nobody was saying he was the Star Child reborn were they? The most powerful pysker? Mephistion? Same goes. 

I'll accept it when theres some actual evidence not just him being a powerful guy. 

An author can do what he wants with it, write it anyway he wants but at the end of the day he's still got to go with what happens in the Dex, which is why I said that even Abnett could write it and it would still be shit. Either that or he ret cons it to slightly more believable (no complaints from me should that happen).


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Personally I don't think the absurdity of Draigo can ever be justified. Grey Knights Supreme Grand Master, fine he's fucking hard as nails. But fuck me, as Jacobite said, he isn't simply walking round the Eye trying to avoid trouble and stay alive against the infinite horde of daemons, he is in fact waltzing around it like it's his own personal playground, slaughtering any daemon that tries to kill him and all those horrendously 'epic' achievements Jacobite listed above. I would love to agree with his story really being tragic as he is stuck in the Eye, and it might of been, if he wasn't walking around it like he's carrying Samuel L Jacksons BMF wallet around with him.

Supreme Grand Master? Supreme Mary Sue is what he is. I wholeheartedly agree with Jacobite that the Grey Knights dex a long with a lot of them now are being written to attract younger audiences, throwing characters whose awesomeness defies belief into your face who accomplish feats that back in 3rd edition would have made your laugh in contempt and incredulity. 

I used to really like the Grey Knights, they were just hard enough to be major players, but now, they are just outrageously over the top. I read the Grey Knights dex and completely lose the grim dark feel that 40k is so famous for, it's just childish now. I mean, they are so uber powerful now that I can they make the Grey Knights present on the first war for Armageddon look like the dregs of the chapter and Aurellian to be pretty sub-par and not really up to scratch with the rest of the order.


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