# New Dark Eldar codex spec



## mr.darkraider

Hey all 

so here's some speculation on the dark eldars long awaited codex/refurnish - this is what i've heard:

- DE will come with an entirely new range of models 

- Don’t expect significant changes to the DE theme. They are still the light 
raider force (which i think is good)

- there will be only one new troop type in the list (what could it be)

- Heavy weapons are gone (what?) All DE will carry Assault weapons (including dark lances)

-Hit and Run rule will be a big part of the DE tactics.

- Mandrakes will be played similiarly to lictors.

- re-tooled the less useful units to be more appealing.

- relaese date is uknown but majority say next year...

- will there even be a codex?


these are just some, but the ones i've been hearing the most - what do you guys think in general? - good? bad? In need of a touch up? fine as it is? 

opinoins wanted 

(also post any other rumours/ speculations that you've heard and if anyone has any har facts that would be good too)

Mr. d


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## Djinn24

Cool, I can't wait to see the new models.


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## The Wraithlord

DE are in dire need of a change especially in the model department. I like the idea and fluff behind them and actually considered taking them once but the outdated rules and the incredibly ugly (and I do mean f-ugly) models turned me away.


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## mr.darkraider

haha this is true.. and its a factor to why less and less people are palying DE - funny to think that there not even on the upcoming schedule!

i'v been loyal DE for a while but - i admit that i might give another army a whirl just until they help the DE out (whenever that may be)

keep posting guys - i want to know what you think about not only DE, but the less supported like space wolve etc 

(and any DE codex spec as well_)


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## Pariah Mk.231

With the release of Dark Eldar in Soulstorm, they're bound to do an update for them. Hopefully they give the basic warrior an assault weapon, a "Fast Army" shouldn't have to stand still just so it can actually fire at a decent range, even if they just make splinter rifles abit more like shurikan catapults (maybe the Dire Avenger ones): R18" S3 AP5 A2.
It would be like what they did for Ork shootas, keep the S & AP the same, lower the range and make it A2.

Other than that, I have no problem with them bar the models. I've been playing "Spikey" Eldar. Eldar rules, converted models to be dark and evil looking, and just pretending they're Dark Eldar.


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## pyroanarchist

I would love to see a DE revival. When I first started playing in '01 there were still a decent amount of DE players around even though the codex was already considered old. That amount decreases more and more every year. I haven't seen a DE army fielded in about a year now, but I don't make it to the comic shops regularly. I love the fluff and the selections, but there isn't much demand for them anymore. Actually, all of the comic shops anywhere near me don't even sell DE figs anymore. I do expect to see a codex and new fig line next year at the latest though. I don't think they can put them off any longer without completely writing off the race (which wouldn't actually suprise me that much from GW). Oh well, I'm pulling for them.


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## mr.darkraider

you right they are falling right off the shelves , which brings the all daunting question of whether they will be revived? (and i truly truly hope so) 

on another note i started a death gaurd army! Which is proving to be very fun.. but just not the same as smacking people with high speed DE death


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## SPYDeR13

I was told by a GW employee that GW does not own the rights to all of the DE range. That the gentleman that sculpted the range had a falling out with GW and that has a lot to do with why GW hasn't pushed the DE range. This employee also said that GW was putting off the DE until some of the legal issues were resolved. He then said that all of the issues over the DE were making them think about whether they should revive the range/army at all. 

But alas all of you die hard DE fans made enough noise and GW is infact redoing the range/army.:biggrin: This employee only smiled when I asked about when the army might make it's long awaited return, but he did say that GW would like to have the army out by year's end. This would mean that Jess Goodwin would need to work his ass off for the range and test/development would need to do the same with the codex.


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## Gore Hunter

I think some of the rules will be downgraded aswell to be honest for example that FNP rule they have.


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## mr.darkraider

wow that is big news - mmmm so that explains why they have pulling the models back - (renewed hope!)


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## Rojaws

I thought the Dark Eldar had a nice evil look about them to counter the squat Space Marines. Plus, they came in the box set with the starter kit and that's why I ended up playing them. Seriously though, I think they're range of weapons need to be streamlined further and the rules made friendlier for beginners. There have also been some nice models but it's a shame they can't share some items with the rest of the Eldar army which is odd since they're supposed to be some sort of renegade Eldars.
Perhaps like Space Marines, they could just share basic concepts (and model parts) with the core Eldar rules and model pieces. Just like Blood Angels or Dark Angels. Then maybe, we may get to see a Dark Eldar WarWalker. (Heck if jetbikes are available to all Eldar, why not walkers?) Sure, it may contradict the hit and run tactics these skinny elves are using but since they have a reputation for fast raids, can't they at least hijack some hardware as well? I for one, hope for some stronger Dark Eldar units to emerge although it may be at a high point cost.


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## Pandawithissues...

> I think they're range of weapons need to be streamlined further and the rules made friendlier for beginners


There are already enough armies for beginners - Lets leave some for the veterans shall we?



> a Dark Eldar WarWalker


 Would be a disaster for the army, and so unfluffy the thought of it makes me cringe.


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## Bogg

Why not toss em some Tactical Dreadnought armor aswell, :victory:

well I do hope they will have a refit soon, cause I wanna play them.


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## Apoctis

I do hope to see dark eldar players because there are none and i would like to see how they play.


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## mr.darkraider

i agree with panda - a walker would not go with the theme of DE - and i think the art of using DE is really a positive not a negative as it is challenging but rewarding - personally i hope GW does not 'dumbed down' DE' and made it more generic like the space marines or even if they based it on eldar(cringe) - i think DE is a seperate army like space marines and choas.


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## Zeldrin

I can see them being 'dummed down' for the simple fact that an army which is easy to understand and delivers imediate gratification in the way of victories is likely to sell more models than a veterans army. As much as veterans may want Dark Eldar to stay as they are, Games Workshop have set a precedent with other codices (chaos comes to mind) where a generic feel being fostered. 

I am sure Dark Eldar will get another codex and new models. The question is will they be dark eldar on the other side?

Zeldrin


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## headbangheaven

I think that it's about time the dark eldar got a new codex along with some new models. They have some really cool stuff and they are suposed to be the most evil race but they don't live up to their name.:grin:


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## Pandawithissues...

> I am sure Dark Eldar will get another codex and new models. The question is will they be dark eldar on the other side?


You've hit the nail on the head Zeldrin. They need to keep the piratical/lightning raider flavour, or there'll be no point in them.

Unfortunatelly, they'll probably get made into eldar with spikes like what happened to CSM.


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## Engelus

I keep saying it, DE is my next army, as soon as they release them I will be buying a metric f*ckton of models.


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## Zeldrin

Re pandawithissues: mmm that does seem to be a distinct possibility, doesn't it. It was a shame to see it happen to chaos; it would be crippling to see it happen to dark eldar. They just wouldn't be the same if they were a mainstream army list.

One of the more frustrating aspects of the game, in my humble opinion, is that there are so few armies like the current dark eldar. From what I hear they have a steep learning curve and are difficult to play. You need to study the codex hard, get a pinch of luck with dice and use oodles of skill and tactics to pull out a win. Frankly, that sounds like a whole lot of fun and how the game should be! I find myself getting so easily bored with other armies that I drift from one to the other. 90% of my hobby new revolves around building army lists from different races rather than actually playing any of them - with certain lists today you have nearly won before you put your models down on the table.

This could be a really great improvement or a miserable failure, I sense no middle ground.

Zeldrin


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## Djinn24

I like the idea of the models, I fricking hate the raider model and their jetbikes, IMHO they are horrible sculpts.


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## mr.darkraider

Zeldrin said:


> They just wouldn't be the same if they were a mainstream army list.


coudn't agree with you more on that - but i fear it will happen- and your right there either going to ace it or make a complete mess.


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## Shamrok

dont think theres a single person anywhere near me that plays DE God they need something to get people excited


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## mr.darkraider

it not the fact whether there's good or bad players just that more people need to support DE - but ur right there does need t be a spark


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## Green Knight

The spark is all ready there, it is just that it is a hard army to play with, and people do not what the challenge


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## patrickgamer

I'm totally new, so from a 'newb' perspective, I can tell you that Dark Eldar are what make me want to come back to war-gaming (after 10 year hiatus). They force tactics, require skill, and are a challenge to play. All things that I really want out of an army.

HOWEVER, I haven't bought anything yet because I hate the current models. Their faces and hair make them look cartoon-ish more than sinister. I think the entire model line needs an overhaul, and to be frank, I don't have the money to fork out for a 1500 point army now just to replace (and repaint!) it all in a year's time. I'd do back-flips if GW decided to up priority and release new models in 2 months (even if it's not the whole army, just something to start with).


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## pyroanarchist

The tactics of DE are what make me want to build a DE army. I've gotten bored with the same old tactics, and I hate the elves. I hope they stay with a similar codex, just updated. I want that challenge of hit and run, steal prisoners, get out in one piece. DE remind me of Eldar in the fact that they must be a completely unforgiving army. If used properly they can decimate, if you make a tactical mistake (or just have a run of bad die rolls) you lose the game. That challenge is what I'm looking for right now with the hobby. I think you're all right to speculate though. GW could make a great list that we all rave about, or a total bomb. I guess we'll find out soon enough.


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## Engelus

i'd personally like to see them more madmax/space piratey than what they are now.

or like the reavers from firefly


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## patrickgamer

Engelus said:


> ...or like the reavers from firefly


If they can do it without those cartoon faces, that'd be pretty cool.


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## the cabbage

Green Knight said:


> The spark is all ready there, it is just that it is a hard army to play with, and people do not what the challenge


I am just not convinced that that is the reason.

In my opinion Dark eldar are an easy army to play. Lots of hard close combat specialists on fast vehicles. Keep your raiders safe for one turn and you are in. All the benefits of refused flank strategies etc. Even the basic troops get to put a couple of heavy weapons in a squad.

I have been playing for about six years now and wherever I game and whenever I read a forum people just hate the models.

The challenging army thing is a myth. (IMO obviously)


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## mr.darkraider

Green Knight said:


> it is a hard army to play with, and people do not what the challenge


thats so true its sad - its a dissapointing fact - people are looking for quick and easy results - which personally i feel defeats the purpose of gaming itself..
- it shoudn't be how hard they are to play it should be that they capture your imaginition (as some mention above about being a raider force tactics /hit and run captured theirs) 

and yes i cant wait to see what they will do - im not expecting a complete overhaul of the codex(well i hope not) maybe just some tweaks - but i am hoping for some stylised models(thers so much potential!!! - GW just have to use right) 

mr.d

(any more spec/ rumours about codex/new modells will be highly appreciated)


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## Green Knight

I am geting an army of Dark Eldar, I have posted it on the army list section. I think they are a exilent army to play with, I like the all the models exept the basic warrior. *Lets collect some soils*


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## Pandawithissues...

> I like the idea of the models, I fricking hate the raider model and their jetbikes, IMHO they are horrible sculpts.


I also dislike the raider. They just dont look fast. The reavers on the other hand I love, apart from the pilots, they're...well, there not nice.


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## Cadian81st

i'm happy they're redoing it, i've always liked the look of the DE raiders, but the trooper models look so outdated. hope they give them a nice new spin.


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## mr.darkraider

the raiders - i think is one of the least of DE modelling worries - true it doesn't look to fast but it has a kinda dark pirate aspect to it and only reall needs some miner tweaks (maybe giving it a sleeker look) - however i feel that the warriors are in the most need


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## Death Shroud

My main problem with the Raider is that it's a complete shit to try and fit one in a case :biggrin:

I think the range needs (and is deserving of) a complete reset. The background and potential of the D.E. is great but the really suffered from a lack of background (due to the failed "small and cheap" codex idea at the start of 3rd edition).


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## Pandawithissues...

> the raiders - i think is one of the least of DE modelling worries - true it doesn't look to fast but it has a kinda dark pirate aspect to it and only reall needs some miner tweaks (maybe giving it a sleeker look) - however i feel that the warriors are in the most need


I agree the raider is not a weak point in the range, its just my personl opinion. I completely disagree on the warrior point though. I think they're actually one of the strongest parts of the range. (says a lot about the rest of it)

What needs redoing IMO:

1: Grotesques, haemonculae (APART FROM URIEN RAKARTH), mandrakes, archons, all other spec characters
2: Wyches. I know these are favoured by many, but I can't stand them, they look so out of proportion its ridiculous.
3:Helions and warp beasts
4rivers for the talos/jet bikes
5 Everything else


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## Trudge_34

I think the only thing that probably doesn't NEED a complete overhaul is the incubi. If you got a problem with those guys, man...


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## mr.darkraider

- true i guess its just personal preferance -


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## Trudge_34

I just hope it's true that they're coming out with a new codex. When I moved near a gaming store again and got the chance to play again, I wanted to build up my Dark Eldar army that I had, but didn't see any models around. Asked the guy working at the store I was at and he said that they discontinued the DE because the story and background and everything was getting too diluted. Think he said someone from the GW staff said that directly so I was pretty disappointed.


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## Dirge Eterna

djinn24 said:


> I like the idea of the models, I fricking hate the raider model and their jetbikes, IMHO they are horrible sculpts.


 
You don't like the Raider!? Must...not...hit....report...button!

The Raider is probably the epitomy of what the DE are all about. Pointy, Speedy, Dark, and Hurts When You Step On It, or HWYSOI (pronounced Ha-why Soy, by the way).

On the subject of the new codex, I'm hoping for more variety. Maybe a cross between the Ravager and Raider for smaller squads. Maybe a really awesome new unit. Maybe a bajillion page Fluff section!

On top of it all is my dream. A massive DE Spiky Vehicle Upgrade Sprue!

Yay! 

Let's hope Jervis Johnson doesn't beat the DE into the dust like the CSM.
-Dirge


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## abaddonthedespoir

I hope GW will make some new stuff for them, but unfortunatley it's only avaliable online cause of stupid law-suit a few years ago.


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## normtheunsavoury

i hope they dont do what they have been doing for years, make the dark eldar "child friendly". what made 40k appealing to me when i started playing in the early 90s was how dark and evil it all was, i understand that they have to maintain market appeal but come on the DE are the fallen eldar, filled with hatred and loathing for everything and the only pleasure left to them is torture and inflicting pain. id like this to be a little more than "Varg Grishnack was a bit nasty to an ork once, he called him stinky!" there are so many veteran players out there that would love the chance to play with a complicated army with a real dark edge to them


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## patrickgamer

I was in a GW store on Monday, and the unanimous response to my questions was "don't hold your breath". One of the employees actually runs a DE army, and the only thing he was able to confirm is that the codex will not be coming before 2009 for sure. 

He didn't say specifically, but he left me with the impression that the DE's may be a very late 2009. He also said that there aren't any ties between the Dark Elves being worked on now and the Dark Eldar (I was hoping that some of the current model reworking may have played into the DE concepts a bit).

As for worrying if GW will be making DE's "child friendly" I think the question will be clearly answered by how they handle the fantasy Dark Elves. If they soften them, then you can pretty much expect the 40K DE to share the same fate.


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## Pandawithissues...

> As for worrying if GW will be making DE's "child friendly" I think the question will be clearly answered by how they handle the fantasy Dark Elves. If they soften them, then you can pretty much expect the 40K DE to share the same fate


Hmm, an interesting viewpoint, but not one I really share.

I think the fantasy armies have been 'sharpened' more than 'softened' if anything, just look at how viscious the new high elf book was in terms of rules, and the darker nature of the recent(ish) ogre kingdoms and wood elf books.

I think (and hope) that GW will leave fantasy alone in terms of the 'child friendly', especially as it has a mainly veteran following.

What will be disappointing is if the Dark Eldar lose the torture and sadism aspects, which is really what they're all about.


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## patrickgamer

Well, in a previous life (~10-14 years ago) I played a fantasy Dark Elf army. I relished in their dark nature, and they are part of the reason I've been leaning towards Dark Eldar in my attempt to renew my war gaming exercises. :victory:


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## normtheunsavoury

what i meant by child friendly was GW has changed so much since i was playing as a kid, stuff like the realms of chaos books have gone now because they were not the sort of stuff you wanted your kid reading ( i know, my parents accused me of being a satanist when they read them!). im thrilled that GW is something my son has got into and that i know he is safe when he visits his local store, i just think GW is missing out on a huge market by alienating veteran/older players. the dark eldar are a perfect rescource to appeal to these players, the younger players will leave them alone because they are just so hard to play and the older players will be drawn to them for the exact same reason. 


iv finished ranting now, so im going to lay down in a dark room to calm down!!


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## Green Knight

I do not like the warp beast models they look rubish. It is the ownly model in the range i truely hate.


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## Green Knight

They can not change all the models completely, it takes away from the whole look of the army. They could change some models but not all in my opinon.


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## mr.darkraider

(grumbles)new codex released in late 2009 is ok i guess....2009 mid year to end of the of this year - was i was expecting but at least its in the works.

some good points have been made - and if GW does make DE 'child freindly'....honestly i think that would be a major faliure on their part - DE's theme is really the backbone of the army.. and taking that away makes it a completeley different force.


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## Green Knight

hear hear, well said


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## mr.darkraider

more rumours :
- Dark Eldar comes in first half of 2009 (WD or printed dex not decided yet)
- Talos gets different weapon-options, 12" movement, increased cost, new modell
- vehicle upgrades change considerably for much better protection (bloody similar to Eldar vehicle upgrades !!!)
- new modells for Lord, Warriors, Jetbikes, Haemoncullus and Mandraks (plastic)
- rules for Mandraks will change complete to dastardly and crafty! Become hardest and most powerfull unit in DE armies
- first army with (small) flyer in armylist (heavy support)
- new rule which allow some special actions in battle (eg. soulhunter: once per game all enemy units check morale, if failed the unit gets one wound negate saves)


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## KharnTheBetrayer86

Dark eldar becoming child friendly...What would they be?
Gone would be the incubi and succubi (being named after demons)
Gone would be the back story and how their hedonistic ways spawned slannesh into being, presumably replaced with them being thrown out of the Eldar race for talking loudly in the black library (the fiends!)
The wyches would of course have to go, being dominatrixes.

All that would be left at the end of it would be a solitary space elf with an eye patch, giving a sad little "yar..." before ending his life...

Ok, it wouldn't be quite that bad, but you all surely see the point.


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## Purge

he probably got fired when they saw the figures he sculpted... reaver jetbikes are the only decent ones IMO.
it's a shame because i'd otherwise consider a DE army!


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## KharnTheBetrayer86

mr.darkraider said:


> more rumours :
> - first army with (small) flyer in armylist (heavy support)
> - new rule which allow some special actions in battle (eg. soulhunter: once per game all enemy units check morale, if failed the unit gets one wound negate saves)


...please don't tell me Games workshop are srtarting to take ideas from computergames....do either of those remind anyone else of Dawn of war: Soulstorm?


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## Maximus

Hold on please, are you guys saying that they will release 5th Edition before the 4th Edition DE codex?


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## Pandawithissues...

Of course they will. Seems ridiculous doesn't it?


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## mgtymouze

Pandawithissues... said:


> Of course they will. Seems ridiculous doesn't it?


Panda, of all of us you should also realize that GW does nothing that makes sense! Take a look at the rumors of Codex Demons (or whatever they are calling it) and tell me why I can't use Chaos Marines as allies. Once again GW want to F*&^ you at the drive through and get all your money. 

Dark Eldar are a fun army to play against but very tough to play right and are fragile. I either slaughter them or vice versa when I play. There is no in between in my experience. 

GW needs to just freaking take oldest codexes and update before releasing 5 new ones per other army and ignoring lesser played ones. Space Wolves also took the shaft during 4E. Oh well, GW can keep using the unbalanced "wheel of fortune" method for codex release and we will still play and buy. 

:suicide: rant over.

Oh and Panda, when are we getting more army pics?:good:


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## Engelus

Maximus said:


> Hold on please, are you guys saying that they will release 5th Edition before the 4th Edition DE codex?


I highly doubt that, I think they are waiting, and are going to make them a true 5th edition codex so that they don't get screwed right off the bat.


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## DarthIbis

Maximus said:


> Hold on please, are you guys saying that they will release 5th Edition before the 4th Edition DE codex?


...And IG and Inquisition and Necrons.
It looks like Daemons will be the last "4th Edition" codex... but since they know 5e is on the horizon, one would hope that they planed this (along with some of the previous ones) to work with the new rule set.

I'm still optimistic that they don't want to completely frag themselves with this.


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## mr.darkraider

they will most probably release 5th ed before the DE codex, this only makes sense if 5ed really is somewhere in the near future say beginning 2009..
however if they do release DE 4ed before 5ed - this SHOULD be a indicaion that 5th ed is still a while away


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## lightmonkey

we have 2 people at my store who play DE but thats all i know off. I like there whole story but wish they had better models.....


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## DarthIbis

lightmonkey said:


> we have 2 people at my store who play DE but thats all i know off. I like there whole story but wish they had better models.....


Well, the rumor is that they are getting new models with the release.
Whether or not they are "better" will remain to be seen, but I think most people have been happy with the quality of the models they've been putting out lately.


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## Vxx

I would like to see a new codex with new art, fluff and models but I am afraid of what GW will do the the rules. I love the way the DE play right now and I am so afraid that they are going to nerf the hell out of it and make it tasteless, boring and easy for anyone to play. I dont play DE because they are easy. I love the challenge involved and how people react to a rarely fielded army, especially when I am able to show the true pain the DE can bring.
Its so rewarding and I dont get that from any other army. I fear that an update will cause a big increase in DE players and it wont be as fun for me. Obviously thats what GW wants, to make money, and I understand that but if everyone and their brother has a DE army it makes it less appealing to me.


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## mr.darkraider

Vxx said:


> I would like to see a new codex with new art, fluff and models but I am afraid of what GW will do the the rules. I love the way the DE play right now and I am so afraid that they are going to nerf the hell out of it and make it tasteless, boring and easy for anyone to play. I dont play DE because they are easy. I love the challenge involved and how people react to a rarely fielded army, especially when I am able to show the true pain the DE can bring.
> Its so rewarding and I dont get that from any other army. I fear that an update will cause a big increase in DE players and it wont be as fun for me. Obviously thats what GW wants, to make money, and I understand that but if everyone and their brother has a DE army it makes it less appealing to me.


Great point. 
i too share some of your fears. I would not like to see DE become a 'generic' army (it would just be wrong) - however, even though there is something appealing to be the select few who can play DE well and bring the pain - i personally woudn't mind some new playes coming in. This ultamatly means that DE gets more support from GW in terms of shelving models, books, fluff etc.
However the update as you say could turn a lot of DE veterans away - for the fact that this update could make DE to easy to play...
But unortunaltly this seems to be the trend in all the new release codex's their universally making them 'easier' to play. So we have to just sit tight and wait - however that might suck.

On another topic - when the DE update comes i woudn't ming seeing more variety added to the codex - in terms of wargear/armoury and unit selection.
As i think this would add variety into into DE players army lists..of course if they do add units they would have to be along the same lines of the sinister piratical raiders etc.

mr.d


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## mr.darkraider

ahem. i recently heard several rumours about the possiblilty of DE skimmers getting similar udgrades as the eldar skimmers(bring the same race and all).... this IS big news if its true - if you choose to take these upgrades it will make each raider relativly expensive but of course make the survivability much more pluasible...
now this a rumour - but is this good or bad for DE persoanlly im still thinking wether it is good, cause these changes would effectivley change raider tactics and make them easier to play(maybe) 
any thoughts???


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## Green Knight

They should not have spirit stones, but if they could have holo field they would be harder to kill and so more of my combat units will get in close and personial nice, but this makes them more like eldar tactics and i think it is wrong they are completely different. Like the elfs in warhammer they are different wood elfs, dark elfs, and high elfs.


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## Norkroff

Your the only guy i know in heresy online that collects dark elder, you must be really happy that dark elder are finally getting a 3rd edition edition codex. My friend collects dark elder and every time im his ally, we lose. dark elder piss me off.


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## Green Knight

yes sort of, but I do not what them to change them completely. Like they have dun to blood angels making it childish :sarcastichand: :cray: unish:


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## CommissarHorn

Norkroff said:


> Your the only guy i know in heresy online that collects dark elder, you must be really happy that dark elder are finally getting a 3rd edition edition codex. My friend collects dark elder and every time im his ally, we lose. dark elder piss me off.


No dude, u dont lose cause of brendan.
You lose cause of me! 
GO GUARD!!!

by the way, norkroff and his DE ally have had 4 battles with me.
ME 
4 

Norkroff+DE
0


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## Norkroff

THREE BATTLES, THREE!!!:angry:


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## CommissarHorn

Lol u still lost them all!
Ha ha ha ha suck!


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## mr.darkraider

^^hey guys - dark eldar SPEC - keep it productive


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## mr.darkraider

according to some more rumours DE have been taken off the shelves - which in a way announces the first process to their long awaited touch up from GW - lets all hope they get it right and additional rumours would be appreciated.

mr.d


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## heliosmj12

mr.darkraider said:


> according to some more rumours DE have been taken off the shelves - which in a way announces the first process to their long awaited touch up from GW - lets all hope they get it right and additional rumours would be appreciated.
> 
> mr.d


Its not like there was heaps of DE stuff on GWS shelves any way, at my local GWS they only had 5 different models. That is a big dissapointment, compared to the SMs, orks, CSMs, IG and SM allies.


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## mr.darkraider

heliosmj12 said:


> Its not like there was heaps of DE stuff on GWS shelves any way, at my local GWS they only had 5 different models. That is a big dissapointment, compared to the SMs, orks, CSMs, IG and SM allies.


true but its the fact that they have announced the model recall instead of leaving them shrouded in mystery in relations to wether they'll be revived - and once again i'm really hoping for good result


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## Psyan

I'll have my almost completely converted army done just in time for them to release the new stuff. Heheh.. wonderful.

I am going to wait to buy Mandrakes until they get new rules and models, though. Same thing with Hellions. Under the current Codex, they're both too ugly and too inefficient for me to use them.. if it were only one or the other, I might have picked up a few.


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## Green Knight

They are still on Ebay, that is what i am doing, using ebay to get my dark eldar army up to scratch


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## rcm2216

*Second this*



SPYDeR13 said:


> I was told by a GW employee that GW does not own the rights to all of the DE range. That the gentleman that sculpted the range had a falling out with GW and that has a lot to do with why GW hasn't pushed the DE range. This employee also said that GW was putting off the DE until some of the legal issues were resolved. He then said that all of the issues over the DE were making them think about whether they should revive the range/army at all.
> 
> But alas all of you die hard DE fans made enough noise and GW is infact redoing the range/army.:biggrin: This employee only smiled when I asked about when the army might make it's long awaited return, but he did say that GW would like to have the army out by year's end. This would mean that Jess Goodwin would need to work his ass off for the range and test/development would need to do the same with the codex.



I heard some rumour to this effect as well by a British GW employee. I also heard that they cracking down on leaks like the secret police.


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## simon90000

Norkroff said:


> Your the only guy i know in heresy online that collects dark elder, you must be really happy that dark elder are finally getting a 3rd edition edition codex. My friend collects dark elder and every time im his ally, we lose. dark elder piss me off.


I've collected a dark eldar army for a while now it was actually my first army lol i love them with the "updated codec" the first edition one was pants seriously, however just to say ive had many many battles with my friends and there all good players doing 1000pts, 2000pts and even 4200pts and every single one i have won apart from 2 both trying new things with the army.
Consider a 4200pt DE army beating a 4200pt CSM army now thats impressive huh? and ive done that twice now.

Simz


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## rincewind

CommissarHorn said:


> No dude, u dont lose cause of brendan.
> You lose cause of me!
> GO GUARD!!!
> 
> by the way, norkroff and his DE ally have had 4 battles with me.
> ME
> 4
> 
> Norkroff+DE
> 0


You and your friend norkroff should read the posts of others sometimes. In this case the posts of mr. dark raider and Vxx. It's about the person that fields DE, not the DE themselves. They have so much potential nastyness... just need to unlock their secrets.

I, by the way, agree with Vxx's post and Mr. Dark Raider. Dark Eldar needs to remain a connoiseurs army as it states to beautifully in the codex. 

About his question regarding vehicle upgrades from Mr. Darkraider... If they make the raiders more durable the Dark Eldar will get even stronger using childish raider-based tactics. Which will in turn lead to boring DE deployments. Which in turn will lead to Vxx's (and mine) worst fears. I'm already not losing much... 3 outta 10 games. That's a good enough score i reckon. We'll have to wait really... Can't imagine what GW will come up with, I'll just put my faith in their abilities.

Back on topic though... I've read somewhere (not a reliable source) that they'll make the Talos some monstrous creature/skimmer and able to move 12". Even though that would be very cool... doesn't take away my personal fear that taking a Talos with you will become a nobrainer then and that will lead to boring strategies from novice DE players who refuse to learn their army in depth. Right now you can either go for Ravagers (shooty) all the way or Talos (assaulty) all the way and that keeps the diversity... (ofcourse you can mix it, but it's just to get my point across). If the Talos can move 12" I see no reason why you won't field 3 of them as far on the table as possible and hurl them into CC asap taking away the entire fast/fragile/sneaky/stealthy feel of the DE.


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## Engelus

the old models look horrible, but I want to start a DE army at some point, deffinately when they make new models.

whats the possibility of new models actually being a different style or design than the originals? like reconcepting each squad from the ground up.


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## SPYDeR13

Engelus said:


> whats the possibility of new models actually being a different style or design than the originals? like reconcepting each squad from the ground up.


I highly doubt that they will change the look of the army that much. They will probably just revamp the current range. 

I mean yes the current range looks like shit but I also think that if it ain't broke don't fix it (talking about the theme of the army).


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## Blue Liger

hey the look of the faces are bad but they arent that bad i have been collecting them for 7 years slowly through school and now finally out so i have had ti me to write and rewrite and rewrite army lists to get a winning combo but the grotesques need revamping along with the warp beasts, mandrakes (make them more interseing and the lords especially) other than that the raiders need to be made to fit more easily into carry cases and the talos i would love to see part plastcic aswell as plastic scourges


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## Lord_Kabal

im a current DE player so i know a bit on what im talking about.
as far as the new codex im looking forward to seeing whats going
to change in the army as well as somewhat fearing that they're going
to do the same thing they did to CSM, which i used to play.

adding a war walker is out of the question and if they do add one to the army list i will be very disappointed as it completely goes against what the DE are about. 

making 40k kid friendly seems a bit out of the question as well considering most of GW players consist of teenagers 16 and up on into guys I've seen some in they're 60s that thoroughly enjoy the game. plus it would completely go against the storyline of the entire game.

models that need desperate work - i don't have many complaints on the warriors i actually like the look though i agree the face is a bit cartoonish.
raiders look alright they look like a space pirate ship should, they could make it a bit narrower to make it look like it goes fast. wyches are alright but i think they could look a bit more piraty. the one model i truly despise is the archon, he needs to look much more sinister for he is supposed to be a merciless leader that enjoys inflicting pain upon others. incubi are awesome if they made any changes to the looks it had better look better or not at all. Talos though, i never liked the idea of it being a skimmer I've always thought it should be like a scorpion with the legs almost like a Defiler, and i also think if its gonna have wounds instead of being a vehicle it should count as a monstrous creature.

all in all i enjoy playing the DE because they give me a challenge against most other players, you need to have memorized the book and know great tactics in battles to pull out a win, as well as some good dice rolls. if they make them like the space marines i will the very disappointed.


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## Lord_Kabal

Back on topic though... I've read somewhere (not a reliable source) that they'll make the Talos some monstrous creature/skimmer and able to move 12". Even though that would be very cool... doesn't take away my personal fear that taking a Talos with you will become a nobrainer then and that will lead to boring strategies from novice DE players who refuse to learn their army in depth. Right now you can either go for Ravagers (shooty) all the way or Talos (assaulty) all the way and that keeps the diversity... (ofcourse you can mix it, but it's just to get my point across). If the Talos can move 12" I see no reason why you won't field 3 of them as far on the table as possible and hurl them into CC asap taking away the entire fast/fragile/sneaky/stealthy feel of the DE.[/QUOTE]

i would like to see some monstrous creature action however the movement of 12'' seems a bit ridiculous, cool yes agreed, but dumb. I've always had 1 Talos in my army and even though movement is slow somehow hes always managed to stay alive and get his points worth in kills (I've named him God, for he has survived...im on game #76 or 77 and hes lived through all of em except 2). Now everyone with a DE army will most likely field as you said 3 Talos get em up in quick and do some damage, which i think taking 3 of the same heavy support choice is a mistake theres a reason you have more than one choice


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## Ebsolom Dhaark

I've been dying to do a Dark Eldar army since their conception but like a lot of people have been put off by the miniature sculpts. I do have a good feeling about them being redone based solely on pictures of some new Haemonculi sculpts that I've seen from some open day (will try and remember which forum they were on and paste link here). They have that "Hellraiser" feel about them and I can't wait till their release.

Bring on the pain!!!


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## Orc Town Grot

After

Having moaned and groaned about the Dark eldar elsewhere, its nice to find a thread dedicated to it. Present GW management has been great at taking in all our comments and criticisms and I'm sure they are turning to it soon, once they tidied up version five. The new Warhammer Dark Elves look great so if that is any indication of what we can look forward I will be at the front of the queue to start a new Dark Eldar force. All the new releases in the past twelve months or so have been suberb. Sure the last Chaos Codex seems a little deflated but the seperation of Chaos demons accounts for that and with the rumours od a Traitor Legion Codex for the key Horus Heresy Chaos forces i think Chaos players will have nothing to complain about. Dark Eldar will then be the last force in need of major reviving! I cant wait.


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## Lord Sinkoran

De have needed a re-do for a long time but the tau were released, twice and the guard got refurbished before the De doesn't make sense to me.


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## cccp

i do hope they dont nerf the DE into submission. im still looking forward to a new codex though, nerfed or not. they desperately need one.


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## chris b

GW want the DE die during the eye of terror campaign I was led to believe that the DE homeworld of Commorragh was destroyed and now the DE wander through space with NFO,this from blackshirts. GW want the DE to die so no new gamers will play them and only old gamers will remember them.The DE do not fit in with modern PC word they look like a bad night in Amsterdam and have names like HAEMONCULUS, SUCCUBUS and SYBARITE [how many gamers know the meaning of these names].40k is played by gamers of all ages from 8 to 80,but a large part of the market is under 18. This is why GW are taking so long releasing a new codex how to pitch the DE the under 18s but not upsetting the existing DE players GW wont the DE to die so the new more PC DE can be born. New codex ,new models,new names NEW DARK ELDAR all you emos start crying now.


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## slaaneshy

Suppose its possible they may send the DE the way of the Squats.
Be a big shame, just picked up the codex out of curiosity and am really tempted to lay down a bundle of wedge, but not if they are about to go extinct!


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## effigy22

Why would they make the dark eldar more PC? Means they would have to change everything fluff wise in the rulebook aswell. and when has GW ever been PC? Come on, some of you gotta remember what the "genetic fault" was in the Salamanders.

Dark Eldar will always be the boogie man under the bed of Space, scary evil torturers, its what appeals to the kids, violence! And dont deny it because i have run intro games (being ex staff)

(and if you want more proof of GW non PC attitude, read aloud the number 1 spell for lore of light and dont pay attention to the spelling)


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## angels of fire

You're right the first spell in the lore of light is burning gaze which sounds kinda like burn gays. Scary!


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## chris b

effigy22 said:


> Why would they make the dark eldar more PC? Means they would have to change everything fluff wise in the rulebook aswell. and when has GW ever been PC? Come on, some of you gotta remember what the "genetic fault" was in the Salamanders.
> AND WHERE ARE THE SALAMANDERS NOW
> Dark Eldar will always be the boogie man under the bed of Space, scary evil torturers, its what appeals to the kids, violence! And dont deny it because i have run intro games (being ex staff)
> 
> violence yes we play war games S&M sexual content for under 18 no eg incubus a male demon believed to have sex with sleeping women [rape?].find the meanings to the other name in the codex,for under 18 in this pc world?Like I say the DE will die and a new sanitised DE will be born and the 40k world will be a poorer place.


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## effigy22

And while they are doing that, all books containing any reference to slaanesh and the stories including his followers antics will either mysteriously disappear or have an 18 certificate on them.

Parents are well aware of some of the adult content within GW, we are trained to educate parents of these things and they see fit whether its suitable for their children.

GW will not do things as you suggest, im not trying to make an argument of this thread, im just enlightening you with the imperial truth of man.

Obviously i am Biased because im actually a Dark Eldar Player ^^


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## PieMan

the way the DE are now, they aren't really as good ahit and run army as they should be

rapid fire and heavy weapons slow them down too much

i am probably there most devout fan and would :suicide: if they were axed


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## Druchii

effigy22 said:


> And while they are doing that, all books containing any reference to slaanesh and the stories including his followers antics will either mysteriously disappear or have an 18 certificate on them.
> 
> Parents are well aware of some of the adult content within GW, we are trained to educate parents of these things and they see fit whether its suitable for their children.
> 
> GW will not do things as you suggest, im not trying to make an argument of this thread, im just enlightening you with the imperial truth of man.
> 
> Obviously i am Biased because im actually a Dark Eldar Player ^^


If they were really hating for adult content then why re release the dark elves? I still see the same dark humor GW has always had.


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## chris b

I have a large DE army to + forge world modeles .Argument in good it tests your own idears but I belive that GW will sanitise the DE so will just have to agree to disagree


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## Druchii in Space

I call shananigans on this one, if GW is going PC then to be frank.. Chaos is fucked, and we all know that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Besides, this isn't new, I've seen the anti GW leaflets given out by some Christian Organizations, and let me tell you, they are some funny stuff. I think my fave line was.. 'and we are especially concerned about the forces of Chaos and the use of Demon allies." :laugh:

GW sells a game about mass murder, genocide and a never ending war where billions die every day, I mean if thats PC, the PC lobby's gonna have to rethink their whole policy on its worldwide view. hehehe

Besides as someone already mentioned it sounds like the Druchii have got worse... less PC than they where before, so I really can't see it.


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## effigy22

Have they got rid of the incest story from the new Druchii book?


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## chris b

I hope you are all right and I am wrong I love the fluf its just a small nigal in the back of my head.


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## effigy22

Never Fear! Dark Eldar will always terrorise unsuspecting planets and ships! Anyone know a good Dark Eldar Novel? (one that doesnt involve half of their race being wiped out by one marine and his landspeeder?)


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## Inquisitor Varrius

New Dark Eldar... I can hardly wait to get ripped to peices! 
(Renewed Despair!)

Incedently, _Whispers in the Night_ is a good Dark Eldar book. They actually let the bad guys win!


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## effigy22

Thankyou, i will start searching amazon! or the black library site, which ever one isnt blocked by my work!


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## da big boss

hay de are still in 2nd ed


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## Krovin Rezh

From the rumors over at BoLS, we could assume there's not likely to be a major overhaul of the gameplay for Dark Eldar, but rather a full redesign of the models. That makes a lot of sense on many levels...

1) GW can get rid of this lawsuit issue dealing with the original model designer.

2) GW is not forced to make huge rules changes to "refresh" the DE army, since the new models will mostly cover that.

3) Since GW doesn't have to rewrite the strategy for DE, they can focus on other things like proper balancing of existing units (Mandrakes, Scourges), as well as hopefully so good fluff!

I can't wait!


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## caljrow

dark elder are definatelly gonna become my army when they get redone ive always loved the models but my god the models are crap


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## Jacobite

Had a chat with one of the Red Shirts today at my local and this is what he said about DE.

A) They arn't coming within the next 6 months or so. However it will be within the next 2 years.

B) Jes Goodwin is taking personal control of the project and will be designing all new models

C) The models will be heading in the direction set up in the new Art work for them in 5th Ed book. Raiders with sails, less spikes etc. All of those art peices have been put past Jes so expect so great things.


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## fatboy955

B) Jes Goodwin is taking personal control of the project and will be designing all new models

C) The models will be heading in the direction set up in the new Art work for them in 5th Ed book. Raiders with sails, less spikes etc. All of those art peices have been put past Jes so expect so great things.[/QUOTE]

OMG Jes Goodwin doing DE :biggrin:


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## Jacobite

Yea, aparently he loves the little hedonistic buggers. His pet project and after seeing what he did with the Eldar minis I'm expecting great things.


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## Orc Town Grot

The sub-theme of political correctness in this thread is very interesting.

For my part, whether the themes of wargames are PC or not is secondary to the lightness of the fiction, and the flimsey reasons for its existing at all. 

Wargames are very very very light weight fantasy. Harry Potter is more serious in literary dimensions! Wargaming literature is a unique genre of pre-adolescent children's literature warped into innate political NON-CORRECTNESS. That is why it is FUN! It is innately non-serious. It represents the lightest war fantasies in which no-one ever gets REALLY HURT!

Has anyone EVER seen a real fight among wargamers? I can't imagine it! wargamers are the MOST peaceful people in the whole world! The very least dangerous! Wargaming is light fantasy in mostly very good ways! It perhaps ultimately is limited as literature because of this.

These are the stories that the education departments of the world and other "real" people will never put on the curriculums of the schools of the world.

Curious that the consensus IN THIS FORUM appears to be that genocide in fiction is worth a snigger or to, because it is all tongue in cheek. I beg to differ.

Well maybe "burning whole worlds" of (fictional, non-existant victims) is FUNNY. But maybe not as well. Perhaps it IS just a bit too crass and lacking in something be that real experience, maturity or seriousness of intent........ Actual REAL genocides took a lot more thought and a lot more energy in the application than this easy "burning" prose.

This is a strictly "Keep us away from reality" zone. The last thing we want is the horrible TERROR of anything real, especially not extreme reality like we might taste in a REAL, ACTUAL WAR.

But remember that only a few generations ago there were whole nations that had such real experience. How does all that make sense of wargaming, and the happy world of never-to be wars! 

If we question the merits of the literature we also question the INTELLECTUAL merits of the entire "culture". Could anyone get "serious" about a "culture" that is based on pushing little plastic toys around on a table top! 

Is the culture only worthy of disparagement? Is the farcial nature of the literature a concurrence, or self-mockingness, of "geek" gamers, with their "geek", totally non-serious literature?

Really wargamers are about the LEAST dangerous demographic you could think of! Seriously!

But I think there is still the question of literary merit and "taste" to be considered, while laughing about "genocides" that never happened, in a mythos that bears about zero relation to reality.

Science "fiction" and "comedy" is social discourse. If it wants to claim literary merits it still has to make a case for its quality out in the open arena of ideas along with shakespeare, inter-net porn, comic books, Harry Potter, Non-fiction, journalism and everything else from the sensible to the insane that the human mind can WRITE about.

Anyone out there willing to stand up and claim that any of the literature associated with wargaming has any real-world merit?

Does it even matter?

Isn't the literature just a kind of rough vague afterthought, to put something in the nature of "narratives" into otherwise empty heads.

It doesn't matter, because the "clientele" lack discrimination, and will simply accept whatever is given.

That seems true enough, in a "culture", where buyers speak of plastic toys as "Their armies".

This first narrative is already farcial and nonsensical and cheerfully impossible enough. HA HA! 

Hence the whole culture is liberated to be as daft as wants to be.

Social narratives and descriptions and ISSUES that are real are so thin and non-existant.

Aha, its late and my brain is scrambled!

Wargame literature is harmless junk literature!

It probably quickly leads us to the social and intellectual frailities of the geeky dimension of gamers......

But harmless fun!

It could be more serious.

But do any of us really want that?


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## effigy22

That was certainly... unexpected! But a very good read indeed. (Yes i read all the way to the bottom!)


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## Orc Town Grot

While, I'm writing this,

I'm following real-time stock market quotes and seeing 1.5 billion dollars worth of Lehman Brothers share value being blown away right now, just today, over in New York. Company may be dead by dawn.....Or not......

That's just one present time real event happening in the world where we are all thinking about our 40K lists.

Gaming is small time stuff.

There are bigger games with real stakes.


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## Syzyx

In response to Orc Town Grot's wonderful epistle (No sarcasm. It was thought out and well presented. I will forgive the typos and other small errors.) I would like to offer some contention as he has challenged someone to do.

I'll begin with the origins of our hobby as it relates to wargamers being non-dangerous people. Wargaming in the modern sense was done by the Germans prior to World War I and was a significant part of the reason they were so effective in the early part of the war. They assigned attributes to their forces and the forces of their foes, painted up little figurines to represent platoons and squads and such, and raked sand into the shape of hills and valleys in accordance with their maps. They even had little wooden trees and buildings and so on to recreate their target zones as accurately as possible. It's a fun hobby for us, but for them it was the business of death. They played their games to kill real people and burn real cities. Come World War II, every major nation on earth was doing it. And, in fact, this practice has continued to this day, albeit now it's almost entirely computerized. There are certainly significant real-world ramifications to our hobby.

As to the literature... I've played this darn game since it was called Rogue Trader (yes, you can imagine me stooped over with no teeth, wagging my cane in the air) and I have watched the story grow, followed the mythology from its probable darkest in the Realms of Chaos books to what we have now. Beyond all that, of course, is my own education. Literature is what I studied. I have degrees in writing and composition and history and even art history. What has this got to do with anything? It means that I'm pedantic and willing to take up the gauntlet of debate.  More seriously it means that I see a lot of parallels between the Games Workshop prose and a great deal of the so-called classics.

The major story of the 40k universe, that of Chaos vs. Mankind, is an irrefutable classic. It meets every single one of Joseph Campbell's criteria for heroic mythology and nearly every criteria in anthropology for cultural basis (also known as religion). Would this be a good thing? That's a hugely debatable question. My point here is that there are morals and lessons to be learned.
1) Loyalty to family and community- The story of Horus shows us that no matter the promises or gifts offered by the enemy, you cannot but lose in betraying your loved ones and society.
2) Loyalty to family and community part deux- The story of Sanguinius shows us that it is better to die a valiant and faithful person than to bow to the doing of wrong.
3) Support community efforts- The tales of Roboute Gulliman are classic examples of the virtues of the faithful son and how wonderful a thing that is for the family and community.
4) The duty of the leader- The stories of the Emperor himself bear obvious parallels to those of Solomon, Buddha, Arthur and countless others from all over the world.

So, is there literary merit to the stories of the 41st millennium? Yes. Will they ever receive that recognition? Not in our lifetimes at least. On the other hand, the so-called great works of Dickens, Chaucer, Shakespeare, even Poe and Fitzgerald were all the 'pulp fiction' of their age. Dickens, Shakespeare and Poe even wrote literal Science Fiction! 

But, this is all irrelevant to the 'Political Correctness' angle. Is GW going to make the Dark Eldar, or any other part of the 40k universe more 'PC'? Better yet, have they been doing so since Realms of Chaos? No, I don't think so. What I've seen over the years is a swing away from the original 'Ooh! That's an awesome idea, throw it in!' mentality of the Rogue Trader era to a much more storyline oriented and overall story driven universe and game. Is this better? No, not in my opinion. But then I happened to really like the stark contrast of silliness and depravity that was the earlier editions of the game. Many people don't. And I certainly will not argue that those earlier visions of the 41st millennium didn't really make for good storytelling. What Games Workshop is doing is making the 41st millennium feel more cohesive, giving it a greater verisimilitude (yes, it's a three-penny word, look it up ). That said, it is my belief that GW needs the Dark Eldar to remain as petty, hedonistic and debauched as ever in order to maintain the dark whimsy of their story.

Now, I've said my piece and I have noted that it is just the taking up of the gauntlet. I personally think that the Dark Eldar are a great concept but that GW just went the wrong way with it. They had such potential to be fearsome servants of the Fell Powers in a way that the Chaos Space Marines never could be, and the team at Games Workshop dropped the ball. 

Perhaps with the new vision of the race we will see a truly depraved society, one worthy of bringing Slaanesh into being, instead of the simplistic dullards rooting around in other peoples guts like children in a sandbox that we have now.

"Is he done?" Yes, I'm done.


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## lostprophet

In that I am a soldier currently serving in Iraq, and see horrors and the attempted genocide by three different factions of the same people on a daily basis, I feel that not only is the fiction involved with wargaming pertinent and a good bit satirical but it is also, in an exagerated way, educational to people who have never experienced real war. The Gaunts Ghosts novels in particular could be retconned into very realistic books, just take out the SciFi and you have our lives


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## Syzyx

Semper Fi, lostprophet, and thank you.


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## Son of mortarion

sounds great. I didn't like the previous incarnation of Dark Eldar because they were less pirates, and more "chaos Eldar," minus the chaos. Hupefully the new visual direction will lead to a better fluff, and thus an army thaat is more fun.


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## JAVA the Great

What does this have to do with redoing the DE??????


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## rincewind

Yes indeed! Could you people please only post here when you've heard a new rumour about the DE codex?

Everytime I come here with my hopes up and then I see endless posts about nothing. Make a different topic to discuss what you want, please. Mods, do something about it, geez...


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## Krovin Rezh

............so, Raiders with sails, eh? As if the Raiders we already have aren't breakable enough, they have to make them more like a model ship? I can only hope it looks better than it sounds *sigh*.

At least they intend to do away with the far-too-numerous-blades motif.


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## lostprophet

What I would really like to see is an armed aircraft troop carrier, like a hind, or a black-hawk. Very much like the valkyrie, so I could make a bad ass air-mobile army.
Wishful thinking, sorry


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## effigy22

Krovin Rezh said:


> ............so, Raiders with sails, eh? As if the Raiders we already have aren't breakable enough, they have to make them more like a model ship? I can only hope it looks better than it sounds *sigh*.
> 
> At least they intend to do away with the far-too-numerous-blades motif.


LMAO! will have to try and build one inside a bottle... Sails? HAHAHA! I really hope they dont put sails on the raiders... people already call our race poncy elves, what kind of jokes are gonna come out with about this? BUT in its defense, it would be a very interesting design.


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## Lord Sinkoran

theres a pic of a new raider in the 5th rule book looks like a shark with an attitude. Also the new artwork of the DE in the rule book will probaly be what the new models will be like.


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## rincewind

From a painters point of view I'd love sails. You could do extensive free-hand stuff on that, making total unique armies. But as a viscious DE archon I'd say, I don't want to play with 'spaceboats', it's taking the piratical nature a bit too far. I want to see the opposite actually: a more sleek design, exuding speed and agility.


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## Zeranes

If they were to add sails they should make them look a little more like Jabba's sail barge from star wars the tiled looking sails rather than some cloth looking design. if they do that it shouldn't be open toped and let them keep a raider special rule alowing them to disembark like it was opened top. that would make them more surviable.


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## Blue Liger

They need to make the raider slimmer and smaller as when it comes to hiding behind a bulding it becomes very difficult or any terrain for that matter unlike a rhino or chimera, in saying that though the eldar ships are quite large but they aren't open topped and armour 10 all round.


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