# Emperor of Mankind vs......Superman



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

I know this may be a bit stupid, but i would like to see some logical arguments about who would win between them. My money is on the Emps in a no holds barred match, because he could probably just conjure up some cryptonite. in hand to hand however, i dont know. the emps' big ass sword and power claw against the man of steel. I can see superman being able to burn through armour and punch the living shite out of the emperor, but i think old emps' could probably boil superman's steel inside. 

Sorry if this shouldnt be in 40k fluff, but i figure it has more of a place here than anywhere else.


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## AdonisGallus (Sep 19, 2010)

I'll roll with this, Im not actually sure who'd win, Superman usually pulls a win out of his ass. And the Emperor did almost lose to Horus, but he held back in that fight. So I guess the real issue is we dont know the full power of the Emperor. So it would be hard to actually tell who'd win, but I'd like to think the Emperor of all mankind could take him...


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## GhostTwoSix (Oct 1, 2010)

I think the Emp Held back so he wouldn't destroy the Palace and a large section of Terra, well thats my Opinion... setting his powers off would be like a supper mass bomb.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I think something along the lines of the Emperor messing with Superman's mind. 

That or boiling his blood or destroying his soul.


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Here's the boring reality...

Superman for all his worth is a xeno dedicated to saving and serving humanity. Once he realizes the Emp's true purpose he simply bows and says "how can I be of service?"

But if they had to duke it out, the Emp has it. Supe is limited in his powers. The Emp is not.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Imperious Rex said:


> Superman for all his worth is a xeno dedicated to saving and serving humanity. Once he realizes the Emp's true purpose he simply bows and says "how can I be of service?"


I don't know, I think mister iwearmyunderpantsontheoutside would have some disagreements with the Emp on the way he runs things.

If it came down to a fight, I think if the Emp gives Supes a blow similar to the one he gave Horus then they're gonna be picking up little pieces of kryptonian afterwards. But then again, I might be biased because I really hate superman.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

supes is vulnerable to magic so all the golden one has to do is tweak his psker powers and bang all over but if it was a straight up and down fight i dunno maybe a draw


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Superman, with a hammerpunch to the Emperor`s face before he could even see it coming. :so_happy:


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

The Emperor would unravel him at a molecular level with just a thought. It'd be over in seconds.


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## Arkeoptrix (Oct 8, 2010)

That depends, is the Golden Throne covered in Kryptonite?


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

GhostTwoSix said:


> I think the Emp Held back so he wouldn't destroy the Palace and a large section of Terra, well thats my Opinion... setting his powers off would be like a supper mass bomb.


You do realize that the final fight took place on Horus's flagship, with reality nearly shattered in that area right?

There is a difference between a being with nigh unlimited power with no control, and one with control, and the Emperor is most assuredly not the former.


I'd say the Emperor would win. He likely has a counter for all of, or most of, superman's powers. Ice breath and heat vision? Increase the heat of the surrounding area/his body and an energy shield of some kind. Super speed and flight? The Emperor is one of the most powerful psychic beings, he can most likely increase his perception of surroundings and 'slow' down time; and seeing as superman needs to be up close to do his fighitng, flying is not much of a help.

Strength and resilience? Well it was already mentioned that he is weak to magic, and what are the powers of a psyker but a form of magic? Strength though, not much to counter in that one, except that the Emperor is an extremely powerful psyker who is more than capable of increasing his own strength likely to limits beyond what superman is capable of.



Its not like the Emperor needs to hold back in the way he presumably did with Horus. Superman is not his beloved son after all, he is just an alien who, in this case, is his enemy and must be destroyed.


Keep in mind that between the two, it takes a being similar to the Emperor, empowered by multiple gods, to bring him to his knee's. For superman, it takes whatever doomsday is, and he is not siege of terra Horus.


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## cragnes417 (Jul 22, 2010)

wait min wouldn't superman have a advantage or something i mean has anyone read the books about superman lately? >.>


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

After thinking about this thread I have come to the conclusion that I read too many comics. This just happens to be my kind of thread though 

Ok Superman Powers:

Super Speed: Superman's movement speed is leaps and bounds above an average human. He is able to vibrate himself in a standing position fast enough to render himself invisible to the human eye. He's fast enough to run over an ocean, and can make it from the US to Europe and back in minutes.

Flight: In space Superman's flight speed can approach the speed of light. In the atmosphere he must move slower but it still faster than anything that can be produced by man. He was able to get from the South Pole to Kansas within seconds. Having the ability to fly that fast basically means nothing could see him coming over a short distance.

Invulnerability: The kicker, what really makes him super. Harming Superman is nearly impossible, with only the most powerful of the DCU having that ability. Due to this ability he's capable of surviving a nuke, unassisted spaceflight, even flying into the sun and going to the deepest parts of the ocean. This ability also makes him unable to suffer the effects of an extreme temperature change. This is attributed to his body generating an "aura" of invulnerability, rather them him joust being that tough.

Super Strength: He's hit the moon hard enough to make new craters in it, and the force almost knocked it from orbit. That is what I would call an unfathomable amount of strength. He's even lifted an aircraft carrier out of the water to use a projectile weapon against Capitan Marvel. The man can crush coal into a diamond in a matter of 1 minute.

Heat Vision: For all intents and purposes these are lasers that he shoots from his eyes. The can get so hot that glass in the area his heat vision hits melts. That’s way beyond hot enough to cut through a man. Also its speed of light fast. That’s my kind of gun.

"Ice" breath: By super compressing air in his lungs and releasing it, the when it get back into the atmosphere it is so cold and it flash freeze water vapor in the air. This is a utility power, nothing more.

Super Senses: His vision is able to see the edge of the universe, and can see your cell structure down to your DNA. He can also see into the electromagnetic spectrum. He is able to hear someone ask for help in space. He is able to smell the differences between time travelers because of the lack of hydrocarbons on their cloths. Utility powers to be sure but very cool none the less.

His Mind: Superman's mind is also strengthened by the sun’s rays, as his reaction time is far above and beyond what any human could hope to have. Superman also has an understanding of Krypton's technology, which is far above and beyond the Imperiums. He has also practiced methods of preventing a takeover of his mind.

His weakness to magic: This isn't as much of a weakness as people would think. He is not more vulnerable to magic then a regular human, but the spell is the most important part. For example:

You could hit a human with summoned boulders and kill him. If you tried to do the same to Superman the boulder would shatter. It's just a rock, a summoned magic rock, but still a rock.

Take a blade enchanted blade that could "cut through anything" and you'll cut through Superman.

Therefore depending on the spell it could have a great effect on Superman, or none at all.

We all have an idea of what the Emperors powers are so I won't bother with them. But I will address some things.



> Strength and resilience? Well it was already mentioned that he is weak to magic, and what are the powers of a psyker but a form of magic? Strength though, not much to counter in that one, except that the Emperor is an extremely powerful psyker who is more than capable of increasing his own strength likely to limits beyond what superman is capable of.


If he could do that, why would he equip himself with a power claw?



> The Emperor would unravel him at a molecular level with just a thought. It'd be over in seconds.


He's never done this. If he had this kind of power then he would never be at risk in combat. Ever.

Putting the two of them in an arena, in stasis, the releasing them both at the same time is how I would conduct the fight. Given these conditions I would give the fight the Superman, as he's just too fast. The Emperor needs to focus his powers to work.

That’s if there was even a fight. Given the extent of what kind of technology Superman would have I would think the Emperor would try to sway him to His side. Interstellar travel without the need for Warp Engines? I'd say he'd jump on that chance.

Yeah I read too many comics.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Wusword77 said:


> If he could do that, why would he equip himself with a power claw?


Because it takes effort and concentration, even if it is a small amount for the Emperor it is still more than he would have to put into psychicaly attuned blades.


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## Professor Pumpkin (Jun 25, 2010)

You mean if the Emperor isn't stuck on his golden toilet? Then the Emp would probably win.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

> Superman for all his worth is a xeno dedicated to saving and serving humanity. Once he realizes the Emp's true purpose he simply bows and says "how can I be of service?"


Supes isn't like that. Sure, both Superman and Emperor want what's best for humanity, but whereas the Emperor has a "realistic" view of mankind and doesn't much care for their rights or quality of life, Superman is all about freedom and happiness, and he would fight for these values even when it's not realistic. So there would be major differences in their approaches to helping humanity. Superman would quite likely view the Emperor as an oppressive, apathetic tyrant, which isn't exactly unreasonable.

As said before, Superman has no defense against magic, which is essentially what psychic powers are in the 40K universe. This is consistent throughout his run in comic books. What isn't consistent is how invulnerable to everything else he is. Some comics have him barely survive a nuclear explosion, while in others he flies away without a scratch. How powerful is the Emperor's psyker abilities compared to Superman's durability? I've read on this forum somewhere that the Emperor once shot a psychic bolt capable of destroying the sun (maybe at Horus?). If that's true, I don't think Superman would stand a chance.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

K3k3000 said:


> As said before, Superman has no defense against magic, which is essentially what psychic powers are in the 40K universe. This is consistent throughout his run in comic books. What isn't consistent is how invulnerable to everything else he is. Some comics have him barely survive a nuclear explosion, while in others he flies away without a scratch. How powerful is the Emperor's psyker abilities compared to Superman's durability? I've read on this forum somewhere that the Emperor once shot a psychic bolt capable of destroying the sun (maybe at Horus?). If that's true, I don't think Superman would stand a chance.


Current run Superman has no extra defense against magic, beyond his normal powers. For an excellent read on how he deals with a high level Magic user I recommend reading Camelot Falls Volume 2. He fights Arion of Atlantis, and explains how magic affects him in detail.

Silver Age Superman was actually immune to magic, just like he was everything else. This is reflected in the current character "Superboy Prime." For those that don't know who that character is, he's a character left over from the book "Crisis on Infinite Earths." This book ended the "Silver Age of Comics" and for all intents and purposes "restarted" DC Comics. Character powers, including Superman's, were tweaked to bring them up or down on the power scale.

Silver Age Superman was capable of pushing plants to any orbit he wanted. In a current comic he flew through the crust of an Earth and out the other side with no effort at all.

As for the psychic bolt you're talking about, it wasn't capable of destroying a sun, but had the "destructive force of an exploding sun," taken from Horus Heresy Collected Visions. How strong the Emperor is, none are really able to say as he's never been featured in a combat story.

The only thing we have to go on is one combat where Horus had to save the Emperor from being crushed to death by an Ork. Given that info I'd lean towards that Superman should have no problem beating him down.


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## GhostDog (Apr 16, 2010)

I don't like it but I'm going to have to go with Superman. What the big E has is psychic powers, not magic powers. They may play like magic in the 40k game but there is a difference. 
If the Emperor got the drop on Superman he may be able to use his psychic powers and hold and then crush him like the ant he is, but in a straight up fight Superman is faster, stronger and able to withstand a lot of punishment. So unfortunately I'm going to go with the boy scout. 


... Now if you had said vs. Batman....


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

the emperor would own superman due to superior powers and even though i like batman the emperor would just say 'ive got one of those but better' and introduce konrad curze who would show bruce wayne what a real dark knight is all about!


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## Brother Arnold (Aug 29, 2010)

Does Superman have access to time travel? If no, then it's a draw. Superman's senile and the Emperor's stuck on the toilet for eternity.
If it's pre-heresy Emperor, then even though Superman is 10,000 years younger, he's still gonna be very old and the Emp's gonna annihilate him so much that he won't even have to wipe splatted Kryptonian off his weapons.
If he does have time travel, then it's a draw.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

> I don't like it but I'm going to have to go with Superman. What the big E has is psychic powers, not magic powers. They may play like magic in the 40k game but there is a difference.


But it clearly is magic. A reality bending, diverse power that only some people are born with and has its origin in the supernatural? Magic. You can call it psychic powers (which some 40K characters do. Others, funnily enough, call it "Sorcery), but psyker abilities go way beyond what "conventional psychics" are thought to be capable of.


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## cragnes417 (Jul 22, 2010)

Brother Arnold said:


> Does Superman have access to time travel? If no, then it's a draw. Superman's senile and the Emperor's stuck on the toilet for eternity.
> If it's pre-heresy Emperor, then even though Superman is 10,000 years younger, he's still gonna be very old and the Emp's gonna annihilate him so much that he won't even have to wipe splatted Kryptonian off his weapons.
> If he does have time travel, then it's a draw.


 maybe on the time travel look (if you consider this a canon)


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## Defjenkins (Oct 31, 2010)

my votes for the Emperor, cause not only can kryptonite harm him, not havin a supply of the yellow sun can make superman mortal


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## Defjenkins (Oct 31, 2010)

Defjenkins said:


> my votes for the Emperor, cause not only can kryptonite harm him, not havin a supply of the yellow sun can make superman mortal


superman being the one involved with the sun and kryptonite issue, its about 1:30 in the morn here and i can barely think


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## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

This is a......really silly question.

Emps would just crush his soul. No amount of super-strength will save you from that.

Hell, it took the power of all 4 Chaos Gods to allow Horus to stand up to him, and he still lost even though Emps held back at first.


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## crabpuff (Aug 5, 2008)

Brother Arnold said:


> Does Superman have access to time travel? If no, then it's a draw. Superman's senile and the Emperor's stuck on the toilet for eternity.
> If it's pre-heresy Emperor, then even though Superman is 10,000 years younger, he's still gonna be very old and the Emp's gonna annihilate him so much that he won't even have to wipe splatted Kryptonian off his weapons.
> If he does have time travel, then it's a draw.


I disagree, unless the sun turns red he is basially immortal. I won't list the comics it comes from on the off chance some one picks it up, kinda ruins it to know this up front. But basically he is alive until the Sun goes Supernova, which by scientists estimations still has billions of years left.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

K3k3000 said:


> But it clearly is magic. A reality bending, diverse power that only some people are born with and has its origin in the supernatural? Magic. You can call it psychic powers (which some 40K characters do. Others, funnily enough, call it "Sorcery), but psyker abilities go way beyond what "conventional psychics" are thought to be capable of.


Magic is the manipulation of external forces, psychic powers are the manipulation of your own internal forces affecting the external world. 40K psykers are a bit of a mixture of both as far as I can tell, they require some sort of mental trigger that allows them to manipulate the warp.

And Ironman would own them all.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

OIIIIIIO said:


> And Ironman would own them all.


Nah, Black Panther would own all their asses. Just kidding.
Biggest crock of shit ever was when he put the Surfer in an armlock.

If we take 40k 'psychic abilities' as 'magic' then I think Emps would win. Supes is fast but not as fast as the speed of thought, which is all the Emperor would really need. I think if he tried to speedblitz the Emp he'd fly smack into a forcefield. And then have his soul annihilated.

Also, I HIGHLY doubt that the Emp himself is a slouch. Lets take a really long example. Astartes are supposed to be considerably faster and stronger than humans. In _Flight of the Eisenstein_ Garro got bitchslapped by Dorn so quick that the people surrounding them, astartes included, barely saw him move. And Dorn isn't even noted (except by his own opinion) of being the prime example of what a primarch can be physically. And it took the juice from all four chaos gods to make the greatest of the primarchs able to go toe-to-toe with the Emp and even then he only managed to do any real damage coz' the Emp was holding back. As such, even if it came down to physical confrontation I think Supes would be in for one hardass fight.


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## crabpuff (Aug 5, 2008)

Superman would own, just because magic affects him doesn't mean the emperor would have a chance to use it. Superman could just blow up his ship, zip in a kill him before the Emp can blink. Maybe if a trap was set or Superman caught unawares. 

The question I want to know how would Superman fair against: Ctan, Chaos, and eldar gods. and could he remain chaos taint free?


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Superman would never win as he will never kill the Emperor. Eventually the Emperor will flay his soul from his body psychically. Superman will stop for a monologue or to try and reason with him, at which point the Xeno will be purged. 

Aramoro


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## lordjerry777 (Oct 29, 2009)

the emperor would totally win.
super man may be a "man of steel" but he isn't a psyker and couldn't resist the emperor ripping him limb from limb without even lifting a finger.
super man can't live without a brain so if the emperor pulped his brain he wouldn't live.


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## Xornell (Jul 27, 2012)

*?*

I hate to bring this thread back to life, but depending on which superman we're talking, the Emperor gets bolostomped times over. Most Superman incarnations are insanely strong, beyond genius, and faster the light. Superman Prime, for example, is omnipotent, has enough strength to lift a _universe_, has heat vision hotter than the core of a million suns, can move so fast as to the point that other omnipotent beings can't get a lock on him, and can transcend universes at will. This is in addition to being able to survive the end of existence and being able to manipulate matter. Silver Age Superman pushes planets around for fun and beats the crap out of god-like (literally) enemies like Darkseid. The Emperor hasn't really been discussed too much in the fluff, and I'm pretty sure most of the "feats" for him posted here are bullcrap. For example, when is it said that he can manipulate matter at all, let alone create/transmutate it? I think you get a bit liberal with the way you interpret the fluff, which is mostly told from a standpoint where it's closer to lore and legend anyway.

I'm probably asking for trouble coming to a 40k thread, but come on, Supes demolishes him immediately


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)




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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Aaargh! Fanboy - run!!!!!!


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## Xornell (Jul 27, 2012)

Yeah.. I'm really not a fanboy. If anything the previous posters were more devoted to their Emperor than I am to Superman.



AAAAnd if you'd read my post, I did check the thread date. >Implying that I didn't know I revived a 2 year old thread.


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## Nashnir (Apr 3, 2010)

I think everyone here just forgot about The Emperor as he was portrayed in The Outcast Dead.
He is ominpotent as well as omniscient. Just not at the same time.


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## Xornell (Jul 27, 2012)

Well first of all, can I have a quote on that?
Second of all, a key word here is "portrayed". He's portrayed as a god constantly in the Imperium, it doesn't mean he is; or even that he has godlike powers?
Last but not least, Superman (Prime) was omnipotent, and omniscient, and immortal. Even in his prime, the Emperor apparently wasn't impervious/invincible.


In actual, factual feats, what exactly has the Emperor been proven without a shadow of a doubt to do? Not much, as 90% of the fluff surrounding him is lore from 41m, and stuff that _is_ directly related to him isn't all that impressive (eg destroying a soul).

A step down from Superman Prime would be the silver age era superman. He sneezed a star system out of existence, can travel through time, as well as to different universes, and can juggle planets. This isn't speculation/lore, these are actual feats.


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## Insanity (Oct 25, 2011)

Well considering Superman has lost or nearly lost battle to people who AREN'T practically a god, I think the Emperor has an easy fight.


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## Xornell (Jul 27, 2012)

Who exactly are you referring to?


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

The emperor erases superman out of existence the moment he convinces him that he's no threat...emperor wins..


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## Xornell (Jul 27, 2012)

Again, when has the Emperor ever done anything like this? At all?

And what, exactly, is stopping Superman from flying, faster than light, at the Emperor and punching his head off? Not off his body, mind you, but off into another dimension? Or blowing out the sun, killing everything on earth/terra? Or flying so fast the universe breaks... Or going back in time and tossing the Infant-Emperor into the sun. Or tossing the adult-emperor into the sun... _Or_ he sneezes and the Solar System blows up. Seriously, Superman has power on an entirely different scale than anything the Emperor can even conceive.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Damn i hate this shit. I am going to play warhammer 40k. Where the emp is wizzend and kept in a big chair and superman isn't.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Xornell said:


> Again, when has the Emperor ever done anything like this? At all?


Well Horus for one. Not only did the Emperor erase his physical form but his soul as well, thereby totally eliminating Horus from existence.

Just a question though Xornell. I really really don't want to sound like a dick, but why did you join? It's great having new members, but all you've done since joining is resurrect an ancient vs thread that I'm pretty sure no one really cares about anymore. 

And it seems that you're getting angry that people tend to favour the Emperor for this fight, even though it's on a 40k site where people are obviously going to favour 40k.

And in anyways, Superman is lame. Totally awesome and unstoppable until someone throws a little green rock at him and totally incapacitates him. Like I said, lame.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

I think the point you're missing Xanrell, is the Emperor's a psyker. And a fucking powerful one at that - look what he did to Horus. He wouldn't have to go anywhwere near superman, as all souls leave a trace in the Warp that can be sensed. Superman relies on getting up close, and dodging physical attacks, not pyschic ones that can't be avoided by going fast...


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Meh this is 'who has the biggest cock' on a epic level and when it comes down to it, neither is bigger because the writers pull out the penis pump and hook it up to a air compressor for both characters when every they feel like adding a new plot line.


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## Xornell (Jul 27, 2012)

Yes, and Horus is the one and only person he's ever shown to do anything of that calibur with. And if I remember correctly, that event is shrouded in lore and Imperial propaganda from the point of the reader, yes? And wasn't it after he got the snot beaten out of him? With such power, couldn't he have ended the siege of Terra in a second or so? Also disintegration-super attacks of death aren't anything out of the ordinary for Superman (Omega Beam, Brainiac's time/space control). Superman fights powerful psychics all the time, and on a universal-threat level scale.

I'm not getting mad, I'm actually having a wonderful time  I do, however, think it's odd that people are pitting a human (powerful psychic or not) against an alien being who fought creatures that destroyed, and consumed the power of, countless other universes. Also, if no one cares, then why bother commenting?

And Spanner, if Superman was disintegrated into the Warp, he'd literally punch his way out. He wouldn't need to rely on close combat, like I said he could sneeze Terra out of existence. He wouldn't even need to fight the Emperor directly, just fly back in time and destroy the Earth before it started growing life.

Again, no feats ever put the Emperor anywhere near killing something moving faster than light. Superman could kill him before he even realized what happened. He can pass through universes and can fly from one end of the universe to the other and back in moments. He's actually almost destroyed the universe (DC universe) by flying too fast. He almost broke the universe's final forms and had to be stopped by the Spectre (the most powerful being in the universe) and God. Yes, God actually had to stop superman before he broke the universe by flying fast.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Xornell said:


> Yeah.. I'm really not a fanboy. If anything the previous posters were more devoted to their Emperor than I am to Superman.
> 
> 
> 
> AAAAnd if you'd read my post, I did check the thread date. >Implying that I didn't know I revived a 2 year old thread.





Xornell said:


> Well first of all, can I have a quote on that?
> Second of all, a key word here is "portrayed". He's portrayed as a god constantly in the Imperium, it doesn't mean he is; or even that he has godlike powers?
> Last but not least, Superman (Prime) was omnipotent, and omniscient, and immortal. Even in his prime, the Emperor apparently wasn't impervious/invincible.
> 
> ...





Xornell said:


> Again, when has the Emperor ever done anything like this? At all?
> 
> And what, exactly, is stopping Superman from flying, faster than light, at the Emperor and punching his head off? Not off his body, mind you, but off into another dimension? Or blowing out the sun, killing everything on earth/terra? Or flying so fast the universe breaks... Or going back in time and tossing the Infant-Emperor into the sun. Or tossing the adult-emperor into the sun... _Or_ he sneezes and the Solar System blows up. Seriously, Superman has power on an entirely different scale than anything the Emperor can even conceive.





Xornell said:


> Yes, and Horus is the one and only person he's ever shown to do anything of that calibur with. And if I remember correctly, that event is shrouded in lore and Imperial propaganda from the point of the reader, yes? And wasn't it after he got the snot beaten out of him? With such power, couldn't he have ended the siege of Terra in a second or so? Also disintegration-super attacks of death aren't anything out of the ordinary for Superman (Omega Beam, Brainiac's time/space control). Superman fights powerful psychics all the time, and on a universal-threat level scale.
> 
> I'm not getting mad, I'm actually having a wonderful time  I do, however, think it's odd that people are pitting a human (powerful psychic or not) against an alien being who fought creatures that destroyed, and consumed the power of, countless other universes. Also, if no one cares, then why bother commenting?
> 
> ...


Btw, the Emp is GAWD in 40k so he wins.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

This isn't an argument to be won or lost. 

Your opinion is given, others disagree. It happens.

Xornell, welcome to Heresy but I hope you didn't just come here for this?


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I apologize for my posts so far in this thread. I just honestly feel that there is no real winner here because both of the characters have their power levels amp'ed as time goes on. If a Superman like character was added into the pre'Golden Throne Emp story lines then the Emp would suddenly get another boost of power to in the long run defeat him. It is the nature of the 'godlike' characters in fiction.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

Batman, ALWAYS Batman.


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

Aramoro said:


> Superman would never win as he will never kill the Emperor. Eventually the Emperor will flay his soul from his body psychically. Superman will stop for a monologue or to try and reason with him, at which point the Xeno will be purged.
> 
> Aramoro


*+1*

Even if sup' is stronger / faster than the emperor - this is the real crux of it.


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## Insanity (Oct 25, 2011)

What's that, Superman is flying around the world at faster than the speed of light? Lols *psyker abilities* Superman is stuck and cannot move.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Sorry, did I see the phrase "punch through the warp"? 
1. It's immaterium. There's nothing to punch through.
2. In that scenario, all that exists of Superman is, well, nothing. It's not a banishment - the big E, obliterated every trace of Horus' being from existence.

Oh, and generally as a rule, anyone who flies around in spandex and refers to themself as Superman wouldn't be allowed out of their care home in the first place.


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## TheOnlySaneObliterator (May 3, 2012)

Two words.

Mind. Bullets.

Two more words

Psychic. Ice.

Emperor of all (relatively sane) mankind: 1 

Underwearboy: 0


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## TheGoblin (Jul 19, 2012)

The Emperor would win and in my opinion quite easily. It's the psychic powers that does it, I mean the universe has never seen a psyker with the same power level as the Big E (apart from maybe Daemon Magnus) and with that ammount of power Supes brain would be a mush in seconds. We've seen from False Gods that The Emperor can stop time, or at least slow it and that didn't even seem to put a strain on him.

The main problem with this fight is that we don't know just how strong The Emperor is...so without his psychic powers? Maybe, just maybe Superman. It's the speed that does it. I reckon Superman could probably punch the Big E into orbit pretty quick, and I'm not sure if the Emperor could survive in the void of space (although he probably could) so that'd be game over. 

Then again, Supes doesn't kill, The Emperor does so there's that to consider.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Zetronus said:


> *+1*
> 
> Even if sup' is stronger / faster than the emperor - this is the real crux of it.


So use Superman's evil analog from Earth 3 Ultraman. He's evil and has 0 problems killing people.

So if the "crux" of the argument is that Superman doesn't kill, if we use a version of him that does it would prove that Superman would in fact beat the Emperor.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

::finds it amusing that there is like 40 versions of superman and they all get more and more powerful::


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

scscofield said:


> ::finds it amusing that there is like 40 versions of superman and they all get more and more powerful::



yeah, I never understood this and one of the reasons I found and still find superman to be somewhat lame.


Rouge Trooper, now thats a comic-book hero I can get behind.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

Okay, what are Superman's two known weaknesses? Kryptonite which you all keep trying to interject needlessly into this conversation and magic. That's right, any type of energy that defies the laws of reality and physics can harm or kill Superman. See Dr. Fate or any of the magical entities he's faced to see how susceptible he is. Now we are talking about the most powerful warp-user in the history of 40k who is on par with if not a close second to the Warp gods themselves. Superman is fast, strong, has heat-energy projection out of his eyes, can freeze or blow powerfully from his mouth. 
That list pretty much sums up Kal-El's powers. To face something like the Emperor would be beyond any opponent he's ever faced. I think only the Spectre would be close in power to the Emperor as the wrath of god personified. In this fight I think the Man of Steel is out of his league.


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

Even if Superman had the will to murder the Emperor the Emperor will use the warp to see the possible futures, one of this futures will be superman fighting him, the emperor realizing that this will come to be one way or another psychically searches the mind of Superman across the galaxy, he finds him, reads his mind and knowing that this is a threat that its best dealt with quickly he shuts down Superman's bodily functions and leaves him braindead, perhaps one day he'll use superman's body for research..


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

Why is anyone questioning the Emperor's strength? His fight with the Void Dragon or the the Largest Ork ever seen not good indications? Or maybe the fact he's stronger than all the primarchs physically (see his fights with his sons) and mentally (dropping thousands of SM's as well as a primarch with a solitary command). Superman was defeated by the creature Doomsday. The Emperor was defeated by the Avatar of of the Warp Gods in the form of his favoured son. This also comes with an asterix as the Emperor (with knowledge we've learned) was aware of and knew that he should be defeated. This means the fight with Horus could have been thrown like a mob-boxing match. Superman is a great hero, but the Emperor is a lot more than that. I'd say he's at Primarch level of power, the dad is waaaaay beyond his level.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Deadeye776 said:


> Why is anyone questioning the Emperor's strength? His fight with the Void Dragon or the the Largest Ork ever seen not good indications? Or maybe the fact he's stronger than all the primarchs physically (see his fights with his sons) and mentally (dropping thousands of SM's as well as a primarch with a solitary command). Superman was defeated by the creature Doomsday. The Emperor was defeated by the Avatar of of the Warp Gods in the form of his favoured son. This also comes with an asterix as the Emperor (with knowledge we've learned) was aware of and knew that he should be defeated. This means the fight with Horus could have been thrown like a mob-boxing match. Superman is a great hero, but the Emperor is a lot more than that. I'd say he's at Primarch level of power, the dad is waaaaay beyond his level.


People question the Emperors strength because there is nothing in the Lore that would make us NOT question it.

He was almost strangled to death by an Ork and had to be saved by Horus. He has mighty Psychic powers but it takes large amounts on concentration to use them, as evidenced by the bolt he fired at Horus to kill him.

As for Superman we KNOW what he can do. He can fly at the Speed of Light (maybe even beyond it), can move 10x faster then human thought (see Superman Red Sun), can punch with enough physical force to almost knock the Moon from Orbit, can survive in the heart of the sun, his heat vision can easily reach over 3000 degrees and he has a ton of other abilities that most would consider "useless."

The fight goes like this:

Bell Rings, before the Emperor can even react Superman punches him in the face hard enough to knock him out. Superman wins.

Super speed is the ultimate power. If something moves so fast you can't react you LOSE. There's nothing you can do about it.


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

you honestly think the emperor would fight fair?

plu-eeeasee....

The emps mind would be berating superman from before he got into the arena, let alone the ring.


oh lets be honest, half the super-powers that superman has are clearly made up on the spot to sell a few comics 


*"omg! supeman dies....... again...... and err.... well again.... but he's alive!!!"*


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Zetronus said:


> you honestly think the emperor would fight fair?
> 
> plu-eeeasee....
> 
> The emps mind would be berating superman from before he got into the arena, let alone the ring.


If you're argument that someone would win in a fight is that they would attack the other guy before the battle actually began you're grasping at straws here.

There is also no evidence that the Emperor is aware of everything, everyone is thinking around him at any given time. In fact we see the opposite in Deliverance Lost, where a member of the Alpha Legion gets to Terra with the intention of destroying the Raven Guard from within and the Emperor takes no notice.



> oh lets be honest, half the super-powers that superman has are clearly made up on the spot to sell a few comics
> 
> 
> *"omg! supeman dies....... again...... and err.... well again.... but he's alive!!!"*


Don't even remember the last time they added a power to Superman.

And you'll question how a character of alien origin who biology sustains itself through Sunlight can come back to life, but a human (albeit a powerful psyker) can live for 10,000 years as a corpse on a throne while still directing his power?


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

*<- Team Emperor!*


I personnaly find Superman a weak superhero at best.... while I liked Superman returns (it showed a human failing side to him) I had hoped they would follow on in this vein... the point of "Superman" isn't the massive feats of super-power he displays - really punching a moon to move it from orbit..... did the author even bother to think that one through?

No Superman is about using an inner power to overcome things, and thats what for me its about - To fight for Truth and Justice are great reasons, but its a little pompous to state Truth, Justice and the American way for a world hero IMHO.

Hearing things from space..... well that just pisses me off..... HELLO VACUUM! not to mention the sparse population of atoms to rub against!

Breathing in Space - no oxygen.... but in the 3rd movie he couldn't breath inside that plastic bubble the super-computer encased him in.

Faster than Light!? .... just DONT get me started on this one!!! 

Sadly Superman has a lot of conflicting super-powers - and I have a lot of issues


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

This thread has run its course. Time to humanely put two bullets in its head.


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