# Need the Blanks filled in



## cloghaun (May 4, 2011)

My 1st post-

I'm reading the HH series & besides that have only read the Gaunts Ghosts series. 

In the HH series, the Primarchs & Astartes are the obvious leaders of the Imperial military, with the Guard serving as attachments, so to speak.

Flash forward to 40k and in Gaunt's era we have a mortal "warlord" & the Guard are presented as the "backbone" of Imperial might with hardly a mention of the Astartes-let alone a Primarch (unless I missed something.)

My question(s) are what happened? Obviously we are to assume many Astartes will die in the HH era, but they all didn't, did they? 

Are there book series that fill us in on the transition?

What is the 40K Imperial TOE? 

I apologize for the newbie questions in advance and thank you.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

After the end of the heresy Guliman writes the codex, and COMPLETELY reforms the imperial military

It is decieded that no man/ man-demi god would ever wield as much power as horus had. As such the marines are split from legions into chapters of 1000 marines, and rather than acting as the imperiums main fighting force start to act as the rapid response team. Many of the legions are wrecked by the heresy though

The imperial army becomes the imperial guard, and become far more proactive in the imperial military. The imperial army was a large player during the heresy but not as effient as the astartes legions

As for the loyalist primarchs, they are all either missing like corvak and russ, dying in stasis, like guliman, or confirmed dead like ferrus and dorn. The traitor primarchs are either dead, like horus or a deamon prince who rarely leaves the warp. Angron attacked armagedon and magnus attacks fenris, thats about it in 10 000 years. The rule of the astartes are with chapter masters, 

This sort of stuff is in the codexes for marines and guard but not a BL book yet

really quick gap fill


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

It twist everything around. Astartes went from generals to the lowest front trooper, but they do give commands over regular troopers since they know the best, but do not have overall command like an lord militant or an general or something.


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Barnster said:


> After the end of the heresy Guliman writes the codex, and COMPLETELY reforms the imperial military
> 
> It is decieded that no man/ man-demi god would ever wield as much power as horus had. As such the marines are split from legions into chapters of 1000 marines, and rather than acting as the imperiums main fighting force start to act as the rapid response team. Many of the legions are wrecked by the heresy though
> 
> ...


This. Also "these days" there are more foes to fight like swarms of Tyranid's the odd tomb world of Necrons, the emergence of the Tau. Plus the fact that about half of the imperium turned traitor during the HH giving another enemy to fight and spreading the imperium's resources thin.


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## cloghaun (May 4, 2011)

Wow, that's quite alot of information! I wasn't aware of these "codex's". Is there an understanding that what's written in these "game" stories will not conflict with what's published by BL? In other words, it's accepted as gospel?

I have a hard time seeing the Astartes fall so low in position in the Imperium, given their proud disposition(to say the least). But then 10,000 yrs is a long time. Do the space marine omnibus's that have been published delve into their personal feeling w/regard to their fall? Are there elements of Astartes in 40K that would like to see a return to their former standing in the Empire?

Please be as detailed as you like-really appreciated.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I suggest you read

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marine_Legion
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex_Astartes
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marine
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Second_Founding
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chapter

This will give you a good bit of info on the Astartes. As for the Primarchs, like was said, they're all pretty much either dead or missing(possibly dead). Guilliman, Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus and Dorn are all dead. Vulkan, Corax, the Khan and Russ are all missing and the Lion is in stasis deep within the Rock(Dark Angels homebase), although none of the Dark Angels or the Imperium know he is there.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

I second Angel of Blood's suggestion of checking out the Lexicanium website. It helped me bring me up to speed a couple of months ago when I first was introduced to 40K. (I spent hours just moving from link to link to link.) The nice thing is that some of the articles are flagged on their status (canon, disputed, out of date [i.e., from an earlier edition codex], and such). 

One thing that I think would really help is to find one of the many maps to show how much the Imperium covers. For the average Imperial citizen, the Astartes are a myth, they have never seen one (and if you are seeing one, well, your life expectancy has just plummeted). One of the more interesting stats is that there is less than one space marine for every planet in the Imperium.

Here are some more links, though they are filled with spoilers if you are still reading HH. (The post-Heresy period is called the Great Scouring.) The articles after the Age of Apostasy are just stubs though and not really helpful.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Great_Scouring
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Age_of_Apostasy


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Astartes arn't lower than than the guard or any other military organisation, they are not low. They are imperiums angels of death. They are independant of the imperial guard, and can't be ordered to do anything that their captain/ chapter master doesn't accept, technically not even the inquisition can order them to do anything. Gabriel Angelos says speaking about an inquisitor, the highest of imperial authority "I will not cede command of my blood ravens to him or any other man" Lord commanders can request aid, but never demand it

Its more that the heirachy has shifted from 30k to 40k, the astartes now exist outside of standard imperial organisation, they are very losely monitered by the inquisition and the ecclesearchy but are generally left to their own devices. 

The space marines are still an organisation of great honour, though after the heresy many did not want to accept gulimans changes, Russ, dorn and other got very upset, and the imperium brinked on the edge of more conflict. The marines are the imperiums avengers, saviours and heroes, not their normal troops 

As far as a chapter wishing to change the organisation, revert to the way thing were, go against the codex, well that is the first step on the road to heresy, the first step to the path of damnation, and imperial justice can respond in kind.....


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

A great book to read to bridge the gap is Soul Hunter by Aaron Dembski-Bowden. Not only is it balls to the walls, monkey shit slinging awesome, but its a good book to bridge it. Its mainly from the perspective of a Night Lord who fell during the heresy and fought for Horus against the emperor, at Issvan 5 and the battle of Terra. He notes on the changes on the imperium and even meets Abaddon, who is the all powerful warmaster of Chaos and commander of the Black Legion (Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus) so he basically took over from Horus after the battle of Terra.


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