# Betrayer. Best novel of the HH series? Very likely.



## Angel of Blood

Just finished it, and frankly I'm almost speechless. I'm going to have to read through a lot of sections of it again and properly digest it before I can make any sort of proper review/summary/comparison. But fuck me it's outstanding.

Easily equal of my beloved _Legion_, or the likes of _Prospero Burns_ and _Know No Fear_, and a part of me is wanting to say it's better. 

ADB at his very best. Once again a truly outstanding piece of work.

Though one major spoiler from almost the end of the novel that was really quite shocking.



Argel Tal, murdered by Erebus. Did not even almost see that coming, I was convinced it was setting up Argel Tal himself to kill Kharn(Erebus tells him Kharn will die and Argel Tal does all in his power to stop it from happening), thought some event would happen that caused Argel Tal to suddenly kill Kharn(with Kharn, like a certain other Heresy character being resurrected somehow by the gods at a later point.). Now of course I imagine that's likely what ADB was going for, a nice big red herring, and it worked. It was only at the last moment as Raum is screaming at Argel Tal to kill Erebus that I suddenly realised what was going to happen next. Masterfully done by ADB, but fuck me do I now hate Erebus more than ever, I wanted to see Argel Tal inevitably die at the hands of Sanguinius.


Again, need some time to digest and talk about the massive fluff and discussions that will spawn from this.


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## Worldkiller

I am ashamed to say I clicked on the button and revealed to myself the spoiler without reading the book.  I only read the first sentence though. Is there other stuff that will leave me breathless? And is it worth the 30$ to get it as early as possible?


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## Doelago

It was awesome. So much stuff being revealed that it almost matched KNF in the amount of holy shit moments.

Here be spoilers. 



Just at the end of the first chapter when its revealed that _The Furious Abyss_ was not the only giant ship Lorgar had commissioned, but that there were in fact a total of three ships.

Cyrene being returned back to life. This was interesting, but it felt like he didn`t use her for anything but set her up to be used in a future book with something to do with the Cabal.

Argel Tal. Boy, I didn`t see that one coming. He damn killed Argel Tal? :shok: 

Now we all have another reasons to hate Erebus. I was praying for a re-wamp of the lore at the end and that Kharn would have killed the son of a bitch. Ouh, Kharn was awesome by the way.

I didn`t really like the Primarch smackdown fight scene at the end of the book. I find that the Primarch`s power levels were slightly inconsistent. In the beginning we have Lorgar and Angron basically taking on Titans, then later they seem to be losing limbs to bolt rounds. Although seeing the Contemptor and Librarians trying to kill Lorgar was kind of cool. And even cooler to see Angron show some brotherly love and rip them apart.

The ending was chilling. 

_"Take their skulls, Kharn. Build me a throne."_ 


There is probably other awesome things, but I cant remember them from the top of my mind.


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## Lord Mephiston

The book was quite good. One of the top 5 HH books. 

But the best moment in the book was 

Angron being the only being in the universe apart from the Emperor himself to talk trash to Leman Russ, then actually give him an ass whooping & send him running with his tail between his legs. This guy is only defeatable by Sanguinius or the Emperor in 1v1 combat. Pound-for-pound one of the top 3 hand-to-hand combatnts in the WH30k/40k universe.


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## Lupe

Loved the book immensely. 

Best moment for me was when Kharn asks what happened.
"The Ultramarines happened"
"They're still happening, in case you missed it"

My only hope is that 

Argel Tal doesn't pull a Loken. There's a certain appeal in him dying in futility murdered by a brother. It's probably the closest thing to peace since he ventured into the Eye of Terror


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## Angel of Blood

Lord Mephiston said:


> The book was quite good. One of the top 5 HH books.
> 
> But the best moment in the book was
> 
> Angron being the only being in the universe apart from the Emperor himself to talk trash to Leman Russ, then actually give him an ass whooping & send him running with his tail between his legs. This guy is only defeatable by Sanguinius or the Emperor in 1v1 combat. Pound-for-pound one of the top 3 hand-to-hand combatnts in the WH30k/40k universe.


Not quite so clear cut as you make it sound though 



Angron was a dead man, Russ achieved exactly what he wanted, to show Angron that he and his Wolves could kill a Primarch, whilst at the same time showing his men(with the exception of the rare few without the butchers nails), will make no effort to save him. Angron in all evidence is still the better fighter, but the point is he lost. Also don't forget Russ wasn't fighting to kill, Angron was, not fighting to kill is one of the main themes of the book in regards to Kharn and the fighting pits


Some of my favourite parts that I had bookmarked down.

1.
When Vel-Kheredar(main tech-priest) and Captain Lotara(human captain of the _Conqueror_ were discussing the team of techs Kharn had ordered to find all the mica dragon teeth to repair Gorechild, had to be pulled out early without having found them all.


> "I am given to understand Centurion Kharn improvised"
> She could easily imagine just how Kharn had improvised, no doubt taking a hammer to the skulls of the mica dragons in the Legions Museum of Conquest, and stealing the teeth for use in the weapons resurrection. She was willing to wager a year's pay that was what he'd done"


Something about Kharns improvisation made me laugh quite a bit.

2.
Again from Vel-Kheredar taling to Lotara.


> Captain Lotara Satin punched a fist into her open palm. 'The things you learn,' she smiled, 'with a little curiosity'
> Vel-Kheredar click-ticked in amused disapproval. 'There is an ancient Terran proverb regarding curiosity, flag-captain. It involves felines and murder, thus I confess it makes little sense to me'


Do love it when novels make reference to things from our time. It's also followed up in her reply with a famous quote from Socrates, though attributed to a Thousand Son in this case. 


> 'I have a better one: "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance'


3.


When Guilliman arrives, I quite liked the brief description from Lorgar


> The answer stood at the far end of the street, clad in bloodstained blue, dropping the corpse of the last Word Bearer from the grip of its oversized power fists. It started running towards him, shouting his name, and Lorgar knew with cold certainty that the reason the song had fallen so catastrophically out of tune was because Fate itself was laughing at him.


Then shortly after this opening quote from Guilliman sounded particularly bad ass, (very similar to a great scene in Game of Thrones)


> Lorgar flicked the clinging lighting from the head of the crozius, shaking his head in slow denial.
> "You're ruining the song. You shouldn't be here."
> Roboute Guilliman, Lord of the XIII Legion, stared with eyes ripened with hatred.
> "And yet, here I am"


And hell, here's the part of me that just likes a hero with conviction.



> The Word Bearer spat blood again. 'But why come? Why come at all?'
> 'Courage.' Guilliman stalked forwards, ignoring his wound, and he didn't need to struggle for a smile - it came as easily as breathing 'Courage and honour, Lorgar. Two virtues you have never known.'


I'm surprised at just how much I've grown to like Guilliman from the Heresy novels, always used to hate him, but both Abnett and ADB have done brilliant jobs of making him likeable as he should be, he's not shown to be overly powerful like some of the Primarchs, but his ability and convictions shine through.


4.
Liked the reference to Achilles and Goliath as well, yet again another nod to our own history/legends.

5.
How cold did Lorgar sound when Angron asked him what had happened to his astropathic choir.


> "How did they die"
> "Screaming." Lorgar showed no emotion at all.


Something about his calm dismissal of the deaths.

So many more amazing parts of the book that stood out.


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## Doelago

Angel of Blood said:


> When Guilliman arrives, I quite liked the brief description from Lorgar
> 
> 
> Then shortly after this opening quote from Guilliman sounded particularly bad ass, (very similar to a great scene in Game of Thrones)
> 
> 
> And hell, here's the part of me that just likes a hero with conviction.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised at just how much I've grown to like Guilliman from the Heresy novels, always used to hate him, but both Abnett and ADB have done brilliant jobs of making him likeable as he should be, he's not shown to be overly powerful like some of the Primarchs, but his ability and convictions shine through.


Ouh, I agree with all the points you made. I was not a fan of the Ultramarines before KNF, but after that book I have not been able to trash the idea of a HH era Ultramarines army.


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## Words_of_Truth

Edit: Nevermind, no one bothered to reply to my thread.

I really liked it, a lot of depths, although there's some issues that I could pick at but won't as overall it was a great book. I just wish ADB would write a loyalist legion.

I actually liked when Angron lectured Roboute about what real courage and honour is and points out he'll never know it because of the way he was brought up. Angron put it a lot better than that though.


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## Boc

You sons of bitches with your spoiler tags... must.... resist... 

Haven't a clue when my copy will get here, the snows starting so odds are it'll be a good wait


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## Matcap

Just finished it... AWESOME.



I did have an enormous "they killed my ***** Ned" moment! when Argel Tal died.







Although I am usually a fan of spoilers, this book is worth it to read without spoiling anything for yourself. 

The only thing I didn't care for was 

the perpetuals part. It seems to be shoehorned into most of the HH stories, in my opinion and detracts from the overall atmosphere: yes we have genenhanced supersoldiers and deamons but still I find the "we're immortal, unkillable, teleporting superhumans without explanation" an annoyance in most of the novels. At least the deamons and primarchs have boundaries, the perpetuals just get dropped in a situation and like one man Deus ex Machinas fulfill their objectives. Stuck on a planet blockaded by one of the biggest void wars in history? Let my take this random knife I got from a chaos cultist sergeant and cut a gap in reality. Need a character saved from an exploding space ship not even space marines would be able to pull off? Use a perpetual. One of the reasons why I far prefer First Heretic, Horus Rising and its successors above Know no Fear and Legion is the omission of the storyline /rant.


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## dark angel

Anything new on the World Eaters? Some information on 'em would be nice.


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## Angel of Blood

A hell of a lot really. It excellently makes them more than just the mindless beserkers we see or rather what they are becoming.


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## Phoebus

I just got done reading it. There's no way ill be able to talk about this book adequately enough until tomorrow. I only have this to say for right now:

If, after reading this novel, you still hold to an opinion that the Horus Heresy series is "dragging on" or that you in some way wish they would just hurry up already and not focus on "making up new stuff"... *I just don't care for your opinion.*

Also, the chapter preceding the cast's arrival on 

Angron's adopted homeworld
 is just great writing,_ period,_ and not just great 40k writing. I can't emphasize that enough. This was a beautiful book.

Well done, Aaron Dembski-Bowden. Well fucking done. But if you read this, I have one question:

Have you, as an author, thought if Lorgar could have remained true to himself/the context of his character while choosing to fight against what he knew to be the truth of Chaos? Can you imagine Lorgar ever understanding that the Emperor's war - as based on obfuscation as it was - was a fight worth fighting upon figuring out the truth behind he universe? Or would that have always been predicated on his father being honest enough to call on him to fight at his side against a for whom he didn't keep hidden?


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## MontytheMighty

Angel of Blood said:


> Also don't forget Russ wasn't fighting to kill, Angron was, not fighting to kill is one of the main themes of the book in regards to Kharn and the fighting pits


I'm not so sure about that. In the heat of the moment, Russ may very well have been fighting to kill


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## nate187

MontytheMighty said:


> I'm not so sure about that. In the heat of the moment, Russ may very well have been fighting to kill


"When Angron found out Russ had not been sent to kill him'' next page over mate.


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## Khyzer

First off, Absolutely loved this book from beginning to end. Only the entire time reading it I had a nagging sensation that something was off...

I've read these forums for about 8 months now and own close to 100 40k books, and finally decided to make an account in order to address a small detail. Maybe my memory is going, or I am just switching up the details in my head. But in 
"Battle for the Abyss" while Skraal is confronted by the voice of Zadkiel, attempting to convert him over to the traitorous side, dosent he show him one of Angron's axes? Isn't either Gorechild or Gorefather (I cant remember which) on display aboard the Furious Abyss as a sort of gift to Lorgar or something?? In Betrayer we are shown not only on the cover art of Angron wielding his two axes but mention of them several times AFTER the fact that the Furious Abyss's destruction is mentioned "specifically." 

Unfortanetly I just finished Betrayer not 10 minutes ago, and I am currently in another state for the holidays, and cant access my copy of BftA. Anybody else remember this moment? or am I just mixing up my lore?


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## Doelago

Khyzer said:


> But in "Battle for the Abyss" while Skraal is confronted by the voice of Zadkiel, attempting to convert him over to the traitorous side, dosent he show him one of Angron's axes? Isn't either Gorechild or Gorefather (I cant remember which) on display aboard the Furious Abyss as a sort of gift to Lorgar or something?? In Betrayer we are shown not only on the cover art of Angron wielding his two axes but mention of them several times AFTER the fact that the Furious Abyss's destruction is mentioned "specifically."


The axe aboard "The Furious Abyss" was Brazentooth, the axe Angron wielded before the forging of Gorefather and Gorechild.


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## Angel of Blood

Doelago said:


> The axe aboard "The Furious Abyss" was Brazentooth, the axe Angron wielded before the forging of Gorefather and Gorechild.


Bah, in there before me ^^, but yes, what he said.


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## Khyzer

Bah, I cant compete with you guys on lore lol. Was bugging me the whole read, yet I knew there was no way on Earth ADB would mess something like that up. Glad it was I who was proven wrong lol. Thanks for the clear up.


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## Brother Subtle

Phew, just finished it. Good read, much better than AE preceding it. Did anyone else find the Titan battle bits the best? I've got Titanicus sitting on my shelf unread, makes me want more god machine porn.


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## Words_of_Truth

I thought the final titan battle was pretty poor tbh.


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## Brother Subtle

Words_of_Truth said:


> I thought the final titan battle was pretty poor tbh.


Anyone else get a massive Star Wars - battle for Hoth vibe from the whole 'harpooning' incident?


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## LazyG

Just read this from cover to cover today on a plane ride, bloody hell! For my BL books are often a guilty pleasure as a lot are, frankly, not written so well. it took Abnett to convince me otherwise, but ADB is frankly just as good. I disagree with wanting him to write the loyalists as he is so damn good at writing the traitors in a 'human way. 

Apart from obvious twists and wtf moments i loved



Kharn admitting how broken Angron is, how much they hate him as much as love him, and how they tool the nails knowing it was torture in order to try and make themselves somehow understand/relate to him. The bit where the dying WE curses him was bloody brilliant.
.

First Heretic and this really stand up on their own outside the 40k world as just incredibly well written books. I;d love to read a non-40k ADB novel sometime. He reminds me a bit of Dan Simmons.


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## Khorne's Fist

Only half way through it, but it's fairly plain now why ADB got so involved in discounting the "SW as Executioners" thread before The Great Crash.


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## Anakwanar

One of the best for sure. In the first 3 100 % - after Horus Rising and Legion. Words_of_Truth - you are correct 100%. Last Imperator thingy is too shabby.


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## Designation P-90

Ugh it drives me nuts how you all seem to have these books months in advance.


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## Khyzer

Well I live in Ohio just like you, I'm assuming you just aren't buying the hardcover versions? I bought that thing the second it was released and I finished reading Betrayer about a week before Christmas in December. The book is most certainly worth the extra few dollars to get the hardcover.


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## Brother Lucian

Designation P-90 said:


> Ugh it drives me nuts how you all seem to have these books months in advance.


Hrm? I asume most like me are buying the ebooks.


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## Designation P-90

Ugh... this is out? 

*Looks around for a bit*

Its only out in Ebook (which I ain't getting) and Hardback (which is too fucking expensive and only available online)? I have to wait till April to get a paperback copy? 

Fuck this planet.


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## Brother Lucian

I got a kindle and started buying ebooks because of lack of book space, plus getting them much faster instead of having to wait for the delivery.


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## Designation P-90

Brother Lucian said:


> I got a kindle and started buying ebooks because of lack of book space, plus getting them much faster instead of having to wait for the delivery.



Call me old fashioned but I just have to read from an actual book. Ive tried the whole Kindle thing but it just doesn't fee... substantial. I like picking up a book and flipping through the pages, looking and the cover, and most importantly seeing my library physically expand (its half of a wall right now). Oh well, I just started The _Song of Fire and Ice _series and Im sure it will be taking up most of my reading time for the foreseeable future.


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## Brother Lucian

Designation P-90 said:


> Call me old fashioned but I just have to read from an actual book. Ive tried the whole Kindle thing but it just doesn't fee... substantial. I like picking up a book and flipping through the pages, looking and the cover, and most importantly seeing my library physically expand (its half of a wall right now). Oh well, I just started The _Song of Fire and Ice _series and Im sure it will be taking up most of my reading time for the foreseeable future.


I feel its less streinous to read a blockbuster on a kindle, plus you can have a whole collection with you with much less space taken.


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## MontytheMighty

nate187 said:


> "When Angron found out Russ had not been sent to kill him'' next page over mate.


What you're sent to do does not necessarily equal what you're trying to do when enraged


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## Brother Subtle

Brother Lucian said:


> Hrm? I asume most like me are buying the ebooks.


Nope. Heresy Hardbacks all the way. They'll still be here for me and my kids to read when they are of age long after your kindle and associated ebook files have become obsolete and incompatible technology.


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