# Ork Cheese



## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Last night for fun game, I fielded 3 squads of 15 lootas.... They did really well, I would use them to pop transports and then drop plates from my looted wagons and SAG - Big Mek to wipe the troops. My opponent didn't mind as he knew I was bringing them... However, he mentioned that it probably wouldn't be ok to do this is in a game against someone who didn't know it was coming, due to being cheesy! Thoughts?

It puts out 45-135 shots a turn @ str 7 ap4, popping most vehicles with ease or wiping entire squads.


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## cco12 (Jun 30, 2008)

That is cheesy. By the way, whats up with the whole lootas unsure amount of shots thing?


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## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

What do you mean, "whats up with it"? They just get 1-3 shots each turn and that's that.

On the topic of loota spam: yeah, they're good, but they're expensive and can't touch av14. Every point you spend in lootas, you aren't spending in boyz or nobz and they're the meat of your army. You need to have enough big boyz mobs with PK's so that you can lay the hurt on things like land raiders.


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## CamTheApostle (Oct 31, 2008)

I have seen this before, and heard people cry cheese about ork lootas. I keep scratching my head and wondering "do they have some magical different codex then the one I am looking at, where orks have a chance of hitting something when they shoot?" Seriously, lets break this down:

We have 15 lootas per squad, with a BS of 2. They shoot 1d3 shots each. So...
15 shots - 5 hits
30 shots - 10 hits
45 shots - 15 hits
With a S7 hit, against vehicles we have:
AV 10 - 17% glance, 50% pen
AV 11 - 17% glance, 33% pen
AV 12 - 17% glance, 17% pen
AV 13 - 17% glance, 00% pen
AV 14 - 00% glance, 00% pen

And remember that you only have a 1/3 chance of killing a vehicle on a pen in a single shot and none on a glance.

Say lets use that against two squads. Lets say a squad of Marines (because everyone and their mother seems to use MEQs) and a squad of guardsmen. Lets say 10 each.

Still have the same number of shots.
With a S7 AP4 hits
Guardsmen - 83% of hits wound, and all kill.
Guardsmen (4+ cover) - 83% of hits wound, and 42% of hits kill.
Marines - 83% of hits wound, and 28% of hits kill.

So... putting hits together, we get the following (hope this lines up for you):
Guard Guard (cover) Marines
05 hits 04.2 kills 02.1 kills 01.4 kills
10 hits 08.3 kills 04.2 kills 02.8 kills
15 hits 12.5 kills 06.3 kills 04.2 kills

Sure, thats impressive against guard out in the open... but hash language can kill them. Of course, remember that this is average figures here. And if you say "i can focus three squad on a single unit of marines to destroy them", remember that you just wasted all that shooting to wipe out one squad.

This mass rate of fire does give them some pretty awesome firepower, there is no doubt of that. However, decent heavy weapon squads from other lists are just as good. And remember that each loota the squad loses reduces that rate of fire. Most other heavy weapon squads have padding to absorb fire.

My point is: sure lootas are great, and any good list that catches someone with their pants down is going to ruin their day. However, decent tactics can outmaneuver something like this. They have their crap shooting and their random firing nature to balance them out. There is no 'instant win' unit.

Hope this doesn't seem like pointless rambling.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

I think the true strength of the Loota lies in their range. Sure, 135 shots is impressive @ str 7 ap 4, but 135 shots at 48" means you're pumping a lot of shots into things that take a few turns to get to you. I mean, the ability to wipe a whole squad a turn is brutal, devastating against marines who's squad count is low to begin with... Imagine being able to wipe the board of troop choices by turn 3. 

In regards to other armies having decent heavy support items, a loota costs 15 points!!! You can bring 135 shots to the table for a mere 775 points - and thats just using elite slots... you're still free to bring Kans or Boomguns. 

I agree, the bulk of your remaining points should be spent on boyz with PK's to deal with LR's and other vehicles, I would still personally use the Lootas to wipe squads or pop rhinos and then move on to keeping higher armoured stuff stunned for the bulk of the game.


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## cco12 (Jun 30, 2008)

I personnally think a unit of nobz would serve you better instead of the 3rd unit of lootas, makes a little more sense.


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## Refyougee (Nov 24, 2008)

Well, he could always take a Troops Nobz unit...

If you get lucky with your amount of shots I agree that this sort of army can put alot of hurt on basic infantry. However on average you're not even killing a tac squad a turn with this setup and any army that fields lots of templates (Prisms, Defilers, Vindicators, Russes) will have a field day blowing them to smithereens. Also, getting LOS with all of your Lootas will be difficult if you're playing with the recommended amount of terrain, costing you some shots.

The concept is cool and I'd like to see the rest of your army, but I think there are MUCH worse things one can pull off with the Ork Codex.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Lootas are vicious, horribly effective things. However you do need to take other stuff and 45 of them don't really fit in a 1500 point army. 30 do, quite easily.

Remember we're talking about a guy who costs a point less than a basic marine. He has a decent toughness and almost always a cover save of at least 4+. One option is to sit him in a battlewagon (armed with various guns) and have it sit still. Now he has armour 14.

Theres guys really are great. One of the things that makes them great is that they are in an ork army. They do stuff that the rest of the army finds difficult to do, like destroying transports before the guys get out of them, knocking out enemy heavy weapons before they fire and so on. Mobile units can sometimes run rings round ork infantry - only to be shredded by lootas. They are an ideal fit in their army.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Someguy said:


> One option is to sit him in a battlewagon (armed with various guns) and have it sit still. Now he has armour 14.


I like this!




Ok, so if you were to build Ork Cheese - I'm talking 3 wraithlords cheese - That kind of badness


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## dander (Jan 13, 2008)

Maybe off topic but this got me thinkig..

11 lootas with a big mek and a kff in a battlewagon and a kill kannon.
Does the kff work while he's in there?

If so splash that with some more lootas and some flash gitz in trucks. Maybe use the new badruck model. They could be in another battle wagon.Now you have a deff dredd as a troop choice. Add a warboss with a group of nobz (another troop choice ) and some boyz with shootas and you might have a decent ork army. Shooty and not using a thousand models. Very flufffy bad moonz army that might not be that bad. It won't be an easy kill or gauranteed win every game but could be fun. I think I'm going to work some points out and post a list.


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## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

This:



Someguy said:


> Theres guys really are great. One of the things that makes them great is that they are in an ork army. They do stuff that the rest of the army finds difficult to do, like destroying transports before the guys get out of them, knocking out enemy heavy weapons before they fire and so on. Mobile units can sometimes run rings round ork infantry - only to be shredded by lootas. They are an ideal fit in their army.


is why people think they are IMBA. On paper, they are mediocre as the math block above proves. The kicker is that these guys make your army shoot as well as any other. You can make the wraithlord comparison because wraithlords fill in a hole in the typical eldar army, eldar are supposed to be fast and fragile. The wraithlord is the opposite. Orks are supposed to be Melee based, Lootas are the opposite.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

To me another factor is the other elite options which seem very limited:
Lootas are defo worth their points(probably even underpriced). That Burnas and Tankbustas cost the same but preform alot worse makes them even bigger "no brainers":scare:
Yes yes there are Nobs too but they tend to magically appear as Troops in most lists, so there aint no need to reserve slots(atleast not more then 1) for them in the Elite section

So as a bonus to filling a much needed support role in the army they _on top of that_ have really weak competition about the Elite slots. There really arent many picks that compete with them:no:
Think CSMs and Elites. You have Chosen and Termies to pick from, Dreads and Possessed are useless. Its the same here:scare:

GW will(probably) one day manage to make all picks in all Armybooks for their respective FOslots viable. That day aint here by a long shot yet tho...


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

entertainingly the 45 loota list gets it's ass handed to it by the other decent Ork Elite

Kommandos+Snikrot = goodbye


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

dander said:


> Maybe off topic but this got me thinkig..
> 
> 11 lootas with a big mek and a kff in a battlewagon and a kill kannon.
> Does the kff work while he's in there?
> ...


I was thinking of something similar actually!


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Whizzwang said:


> entertainingly the 45 loota list gets it's ass handed to it by the other decent Ork Elite
> 
> Kommandos+Snikrot = goodbye


I don't know if many ork lists could actually deal with 45 lootas, its going to remove boyz in droves and easily pop trukks, kans, dreads, etc...

Kommandos /w Snikrot could be difficult if not taken into account, (however, in all my games against orks I've only seem them used once) but after playing many armies with outflank, I usually give myself a decent buffer from board edges. And with Someguys post about sitting them in a gunwagon, kommando's ain't going to do much except get shot to shit.


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

you can buffer left and right against outflank all you want - Snikrot and his boys come on from your edge not the flanks. the turn they arrive ghazgkull calls his waaagh, that's a 12" move - 6" assault right into the back of you. no way you've moved your lootas that far onto the table.

More people need to use Snikkers - he's quite possibly THE best character we have. 12x kommando boyz = 48 attacks, 2x kommando burnaz = 6 pwr wpn attacks PLUS Snikrot himself right into your rear end.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Whizzwang said:


> you can buffer left and right against outflank all you want - Snikrot and his boys come on from your edge not the flanks. the turn they arrive ghazgkull calls his waaagh, that's a 12" move - 6" assault right into the back of you. no way you've moved your lootas that far onto the table.
> 
> More people need to use Snikkers - he's quite possibly THE best character we have. 12x kommando boyz = 48 attacks, 2x kommando burnaz = 6 pwr wpn attacks PLUS Snikrot himself right into your rear end.


The problem I have with them is that for 255 points, you get 15 Ork Models /w their crappy save that are most likely swinging last, so realistically, you're going to be getting less attacks. IF you kill the unit you assaulted (I say IF being heavy emphasized) and baring counter assaults, they are left out in the open where they will either be ignored or shot to pieces. They CAN be useful, but when you declare that you have kommandos in reserved, MOST players will keep a counter assault unit near their shooty units or stay away from the board edges. Also, you could get crappy rolls and by the time they come on the board, most of your opponents will have done their damage.

Imho, they are a 1 trick pony - The more I think about it, I think 45 lootas is probably going to fall into the same catagory of being a 1 time use only.


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

You underestimate the comedically large eared kommando of death (tm)


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## kungfoomasta (May 8, 2008)

..... 15 destroyers in a 1500 pt game is cheaper dont try and outcheese me. 135 shots jetbike movement 3+ save t5 and ive got BS of 4 and i can hurt landraiders. begin the duel. lets see who wins


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

I see your 15 destroyers in 1500 and raise you 6 SAG in 1750


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

kungfoomasta said:


> ..... 15 destroyers in a 1500 pt game is cheaper dont try and outcheese me. 135 shots jetbike movement 3+ save t5 and ive got BS of 4 and i can hurt landraiders. begin the duel. lets see who wins


I find your lack of basic arithmatic disturbing.

45 lootas cost 75 points less than 15 destroyers. The orks are cheaper.

Without wanting to give away too much of GW's IP, necron destroyers do not actually get 9 shots each. You don't get 135 shots a turn, you get 45.

The lootas wound destroyers on a 2+ and will usually be in cover. Try the duel out, you may be surprised by the result. The destroyers die almost as fast as the orks.


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## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

lol at 135 shots lol more at 15 destroyers orks have you by the balls


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