# It's getting gloomier all the time...



## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

We all know and somewhat appreciate that the situation in the 40k universe is darker than a Lars Von Trier movie and getting gloomier by the second.

This thread is just a way of cataloguing exactly how, and to try and predict the new downers.

Let's start:

1- First and biggest: Astronomican beggining to fail. Stranded worlds fending for themselves, empire is gone, systems taken one at a time with no chance of support. 

2- Drowning in tyranids:It's been hinted quite openly that the hive fleets seen so far were only the alien version of new neighbors dropping by to leave you a cherry pie and a friendly wave. Odds are that soon there will be a Tervigon crashing into the Empire for each individual hair on the heads of all humans, Eldar and orks across the galaxy added together. 

3- Technological stagnation: much of the tech and science in the human empire has been roughly the same for millenia. Innovating is mostly restricted to minor changes to familiar patterns, and the threat of heresy and sacrilege hangs over any advance. This doesn't often end well.

4- Ork up the wazoo and more on the way: Orks are not so much a race as a complete eco-system geared for war, manufacturing its own food, weapons, labor and red-painted deffkoptas from nothing starting with a single spore. Every other race can be ended by a series of failures, but the orks will always be there, always will be plentiful and always will be able to swoop in on any civilization that falls below a certain level of power. They don't even need to unite to be a colossal threat: simple expansion of different ork empires would be enough. War is demographics in a hurry, and ork -rule- at demographics. And War. 

Who'd imagine that an elite army of fanatical, psychotic super-soldiers backed by actual demons in the flesh would be such a small threat, given the competition.

Any other potential Michael Bay catastrophies looming closer that I missed?


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Give it another 5-10k years and the whole universe will be an epic battle between Orks and Tyranids.

Orks continually repopulating through spores, and Tyranids repopulating by collecting the Orks biomass.
Its an infinite cycle where both races grow at an exponential rate.

In the end, the whole universe will just be incredibly densely populated with both Orks and Nids to the point where there wont be a place on the entire universe you cant walk without tripping over a Nid or Ork.


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## forkbanger (Jan 25, 2010)

Sephyr said:


> 1- First and biggest: Astronomican beggining to fail.


The Astronomicon and the Golden throne are now starting to fail, to make things grimdarker. The refusal to move the story forward is getting ridiculous at this point.



Sephyr said:


> 2- Drowning in tyranids:It's been hinted quite openly that the hive fleets seen so far were only the alien version of new neighbors dropping by


Since Tyranids shifted from Rogue Trader's 'six-legged alien dudes' to 'nomnomnom murderbeasts', the waves of Hive Fleets encountered have been theorized as precursors to the full power of the Tyranids.



Sephyr said:


> 3- Technological stagnation: much of the tech and science in the human empire has been roughly the same for millenia.


Fluffwise, it's going backwards. Land Raiders, for example, used to be STC vehicles that could be made relatively easily provided you had the STC blueprints and manufacturing facilities. Now they are irreplacable holy relics that cannot be built any more (so naturally, the Blood Angels drop them from great heights).



Sephyr said:


> 4- Ork up the wazoo and more on the way: Orks are not so much a race as a complete eco-system geared for war, manufacturing its own food, weapons, labor and red-painted deffkoptas from nothing starting with a single spore.


Orks have been an infestation since the 'Ere We Go and Freebooterz books back in Rogue Trader. The power of Ork Waaaaaaghs has been cranked up in the backstory, however.



Sephyr said:


> Who'd imagine that an elite army of fanatical, psychotic super-soldiers backed by actual demons in the flesh would be such a small threat, given the competition.


Humanity has stopped being a nascent psyker race, filled with the potential to let horrible demon beasts into the real world from the Warp - the shift has been towards the Chaos Legions and their Long War, and Abaddon's utter failure to achieve anything on his Black Crusades (because the story never advances). Chaos has become an external threat, instead of something that can erupt on any world in the Imperium if psykers aren't rounded up and controlled.



Sephyr said:


> Any other potential Michael Bay catastrophies looming closer that I missed?


Necrons and their impending Harvest, once they are fully woken and can poke their C'tan chums into action.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

forkbanger said:


> Necrons and their impending Harvest, once they are fully woken and can poke their C'tan chums into action.


I don't really buy the Necrons as a mega-threat, for some reason. Seems pretty much every race has manages to either blunt their attacks or leave and nuke their awakening tomb-worlds. 

Creepy, sure, but they are yet to really get into high gear and eat a few dozen Space Marine chapters.


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## Chaosrider (Feb 3, 2010)

Well yea... I agree with most things. But unless the corns close off the warp the gods might finally get off their butts and do something. And they can make fuckloads of daemons.

Edit: FACEPLAM, the gods would die as soon as humans/eldar die..


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## faultyvoodoo (Mar 12, 2010)

Chaosrider said:


> Edit: FACEPLAM, the gods would die as soon as humans/eldar die..



From how I understand the warp to work, the chaos gods have amassed enough power and grown so bloated on the ambitions and emotions of mortals that they are autonomous. So, while the would certainly wane over time, they could exist for a long while after eldar and humans went extinct. In fact, the violence and terror of the rapid extinction of hundreds of billions of humans from being eaten by tyranids, butchered by orks, flayed by necrons, and soul sucked by said warp entities would grow their power immensely. Perhaps long enough to persist until a new race of nascent psykers emerge. . .


Or I could be completely wrong


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## Chaosrider (Feb 3, 2010)

its one of the two...


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

faultyvoodoo said:


> From how I understand the warp to work, the chaos gods have amassed enough power and grown so bloated on the ambitions and emotions of mortals that they are autonomous. So, while the would certainly wane over time, they could exist for a long while after eldar and humans went extinct. In fact, the violence and terror of the rapid extinction of hundreds of billions of humans from being eaten by tyranids, butchered by orks, flayed by necrons, and soul sucked by said warp entities would grow their power immensely. Perhaps long enough to persist until a new race of nascent psykers emerge. . .
> 
> 
> Or I could be completely wrong


I think of them as leeches.

The first three Chaos powers all came to life around the medieval period of humanity's existence if I am not mistaken, and prior to that they were simply floating balls of non-sentient emotion-derived energy.

So it just goes to show how heavily invested they have become with mankind's existence and I think if the latter were to perish, the Chaos powers would simply cease to exist, they'd _implode _ on their fat if you will, probably out of sheer anger at being robbed of their favorite subjects. 

They could have chosen the other super populated races, since arguably only a race with huge numbers can sustain them, such as the Orks but their lack of any desire to worship anything other than Mork and Gok (maybe khorne though) wouldn't have worked and the Tyranids are pretty much covered by the hive mind and so humanity was their only option.


Meh I think it's about time the Ctan unite and force the necrons to make them some kind of warp-resistant exoskeleton so they could enter their realm and mess things up with whatever nascent powers they've got.

I think if Malal, the 5th chaos power focused on anarchy and the destruction of his brothers were to ever come to life, him teaming up with the Ctan would be awesome.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

There are several possibilities to how the 40k galaxy will end.

1. The Astronomicon will fail, the Imperium will be destroyed and without that the other more barbaric races will turn onto the others, Orks and Tyranids will turn to the Eldar and Tau.

2. The Tyranids will overrun the galaxy. It has been hinted that these Hive Fleets are only the vanguard, and that in order to have a chance at beating their true numbers every single man, woman and child in Segmentum Tempestus would need to be recruited, effectively increasing recruitment 500%.

3. The Orks will finally unite and have a galactic WAAAGH!. Nothing will be able to hold back their might, and most likely Ghazghkull will be leading this WAAAGH!

4. The Necrons will arise fully and harvest all life within the galaxy. We have seen that the Tyranids avoid the Necron Tomb Worlds and that the Necrons have vast numbers, all hidden away. And their technology is the greatest in all of 40k.

5. Chaos will finally unite fully and destroy the False Emperor. Chaos will finally be able to control the material universe and all life will dedicate itself to Chaos or be sacrificed to it.

6. The Fall of the Eldar will repeat itself with The Fall of Man. A new fifth Chaos God will arise and dominate the others, ruling the new Eye of Terror which will encompass the entire galaxy.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Assuming you are with the fluff regarding the reincarnation of the emperor:




Lord of the Night said:


> There are several possibilities to how the 40k galaxy will end.
> 
> 1. The Astronomicon will fail, the Imperium will be destroyed and without that the other more barbaric races will turn onto the others, Orks and Tyranids will turn to the Eldar and Tau.
> 
> 2. The Tyranids will overrun the galaxy. It has been hinted that these Hive Fleets are only the vanguard, and that in order to have a chance at beating their true numbers every single man, woman and child in Segmentum Tempestus would need to be recruited, effectively increasing recruitment 500%.


If the emperor dies and is reincarnated, his presence alone would boost the morale of the imperium tenfold and he could probably make the astromincian work in his sleep.



Lord of the Night said:


> 3. The Orks will finally unite and have a galactic WAAAGH!. Nothing will be able to hold back their might, and most likely Ghazghkull will be leading this WAAAGH!
> 
> 4. The Necrons will arise fully and harvest all life within the galaxy. We have seen that the Tyranids avoid the Necron Tomb Worlds and that the Necrons have vast numbers, all hidden away. And their technology is the greatest in all of 40k.
> 
> 5. Chaos will finally unite fully and destroy the False Emperor. Chaos will finally be able to control the material universe and all life will dedicate itself to Chaos or be sacrificed to it.


Emperor will rally the imperium into a state they've never been in before and will arguably be much stronger than before.




Lord of the Night said:


> 6. The Fall of the Eldar will repeat itself with The Fall of Man. A new fifth Chaos God will arise and dominate the others, ruling the new Eye of Terror which will encompass the entire galaxy.


Malal is the fifth power and I don't think a collapse of a race will create a new chaos power each time.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

Arent a good chunk of the ctan dead by being eaten by eachother or some such?

Im with faultyvoodo in respect to the chaos gods.

How would the nids do in the eye of terror and malestorm when it comes to exterminating the galaxy?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

World Eater XII said:


> Arent a good chunk of the ctan dead by being eaten by eachother or some such?
> 
> Im with faultyvoodo in respect to the chaos gods.
> 
> How would the nids do in the eye of terror and malestorm when it comes to exterminating the galaxy?


Yup only 4 Ctan are rumored to exist.

If you take into account my understanding of the chaos powers and their heavy investment in humanity, perhaps the chaos powers would actually *aid *humanity only in hopes of preserving their current state so that they could continually feed off their emotions. 

Especially since they can't reinvest in the other two races with huge populations (orks, tyranids).


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Yup only 4 Ctan are rumored to exist.


IIRC those surviving C'tan are as powerful as gods. "Only" four seems to write them off a bit easily, especially as one of them is revered as the Omnissiah, the god of all things technological in the Imperium. 

Also, the necrons have only started to wake on far flung, fairly random planets. When(if) they do waken fully, even without the C'tan, they would be powerful enough to take on every other race combined, and win. Nothing like collapsing the star in a solar system to give your enemies a seriously bad day.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Khorne's Fist said:


> IIRC those surviving C'tan are as powerful as gods. "Only" four seems to write them off a bit easily, especially as one of them is revered as the Omnissiah, the god of all things technological in the Imperium.
> 
> Also, the necrons have only started to wake on far flung, fairly random planets. When(if) they do waken fully, even without the C'tan, they would be powerful enough to take on every other race combined, and win. Nothing like collapsing the star in a solar system to give your enemies a seriously bad day.


lol dude I'm all for the ctans/necrons kicking chaos ass and for them being in fact more powerful.

Just wait for CotE to come in and say otherwise lol.


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

I dont care - i imagine im eldar and can fly away from danger!



Malus Darkblade said:


> Yup only 4 Ctan are rumored to exist.
> 
> If you take into account my understanding of the chaos powers and their heavy investment in humanity, perhaps the chaos powers would actually *aid *humanity only in hopes of preserving their current state so that they could continually feed off their emotions.
> 
> Especially since they can't reinvest in the other two races with huge populations (orks, tyranids).


Honestly chaos doesnt care about winning - its the negative side of humanity, and it will be exactly that ountil the last day. 

While necrons only want to exterminate life, but that wont do them well politicaly, as many races would probably unite and kick their boring ass.

Oh also, if you read horus heresy books, chaos 'beings" there say how they dont care about our material world at all, but stuff emperor was doing was damaging chaos dimension itself, so chaos gods/spirits and whatever decided to pwn him. Otherwise i dont think they really need materium to survive, especialy considering that 99% of their care goes into warp itself and fighting each other, not fiddling with humanity.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

MyI)arkness said:


> I dont care - i imagine im eldar and can fly away from danger!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


While they may not care for the material world as much as their own realm, their existence is sustained by what goes on in the real world.

Also I wouldn't go so far as to say they completely don't care about the material world, look at how much they've invested in it pre and post heresy.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

If i rember correctly in a 'dex it says the every so billion years, a super remarkable human/being comes along and then they decide to have a gander at the mortal relm?


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

Malus Darkblade said:


> While they may not care for the material world as much as their own realm, their existence is sustained by what goes on in the real world.
> 
> Also I wouldn't go so far as to say they completely don't care about the material world, look at how much they've invested in it pre and post heresy.


As i said, they Had to invest into it because of emperors machinations. 

Also where does it say chaos feeds from material world? Its probably my memory failing me, but i dont remember that. All i remember is that sentient beings just created chaos gods in the warp, without sentient beings chaos gods would Maybe stop existing, but new sentient beings would create new gods and humanity is just the strongest catalyst for warp stuff in the galaxy.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

MyI)arkness said:


> As i said, they Had to invest into it because of emperors machinations.
> 
> Also where does it say chaos feeds from material world? Its probably my memory failing me, but i dont remember that. All i remember is that sentient beings just created chaos gods in the warp, without sentient beings chaos gods would Maybe stop existing, but new sentient beings would create new gods and humanity is just the strongest catalyst for warp stuff in the galaxy.



The chaos powers were born around the medieval/ancient human history and I'm certain they require a race with a vast population to sustain it.

The eldar are extinct, & orks/tyranids would never follow Chaos, so it wasn't really in my opinion that they chose humanity but rather were forced to, especially since mankind's extreme emotions greatly fueled their birth.

The chaos powers feed from the material world in the sense that their prey reside in the material world, not the warp.

Exactly, humanity is the strongest catalyst for their existence and without them they would perish as there are no other alternatives to choose from.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Malus Darkblade said:


> The chaos powers were born around the medieval/ancient human history and I'm certain they require a race with a vast population to sustain it.


This always bothered me. There wasn't a vast population on earth in medieval times, IMO certainly not enough to create three seperate chaos gods, especially when you consider a highly psychic, far flung and well populated _galactic_ empire of Eldar only gave rise to one. The orks only have two, and they are found all over the galaxy for as long as the eldar have been around.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> such as the Orks but their lack of any desire to worship anything other than Mork and Gok (maybe khorne though) wouldn't have worked


The Orks are completely incapable of worshipping Khorne, The Soul Eater represents Anger and Rage - Not emotions that the Orks often feel (if they do at all).



Malus Darkblade said:


> If the emperor dies and is reincarnated, his presence alone would boost the morale of the imperium tenfold and he could probably make the astromincian work in his sleep.


If you mean reincarnated physically? No thats not gonna happen. The only way he can return is through the Warp.



Malus Darkblade said:


> and will arguably be much stronger than before.


Why?



Malus Darkblade said:


> I don't think a collapse of a race will create a new chaos power each time.


Indeed. 



World Eater XII said:


> Arent a good chunk of the ctan dead by being eaten by eachother or some such?


Yes. But its actually plausable that there are countless C'tan 'undiscovered' by the Necrontyr/Necrons and their brother C'tan - beings that are still suckling on the honey of Stars, unmolested and undisturbed by Mortals. Perhaps through the Gates of Varl.



Malus Darkblade said:


> If you take into account my understanding of the chaos powers and their heavy investment in humanity, perhaps the chaos powers would actually *aid *humanity only in hopes of preserving their current state so that they could continually feed off their emotions.


Quite likely, considering they are stated as only caring about 'the eternal flow of emotion across aeons'.



Malus Darkblade said:


> Just wait for CotE to come in and say otherwise lol.






MyI)arkness said:


> Honestly chaos doesnt care about winning - its the negative side of humanity, and it will be exactly that ountil the last day.


Well I disagree that its the 'negative side' of humanity. Chaos is just that; Chaos. It is unrestraint, pure freedom. It represents the human mind as it truly desires to be (The 'Id' for all you freudians), it is what we consider 'positive' emotions (although in my opinion such a concept does not exist) like love and hope pushed to the extreme. Love pushed to wild abandon, pushed to lust and desire. Hope pushed to constant and flippant change. But that does not mean negative.



MyI)arkness said:


> Oh also, if you read horus heresy books, chaos 'beings" there say how they dont care about our material world at all, but stuff emperor was doing was damaging chaos dimension itself, so chaos gods/spirits and whatever decided to pwn him. Otherwise i dont think they really need materium to survive, especialy considering that 99% of their care goes into warp itself and fighting each other, not fiddling with humanity.


Well that is what Erebus tells Horus, but its not true. The Chaos Gods _do_ care about the Material Realm, and the Emperor posed a threat to their dominance of it - therefore they needed to get rid of him - which they did via the Horus Heresy.




Malus Darkblade said:


> The chaos powers were born around the medieval/ancient human history and I'm certain they require a race with a vast population to sustain it.





Khorne's Fist said:


> This always bothered me. There wasn't a vast population on earth in medieval times, IMO certainly not enough to create three seperate chaos gods, especially when you consider a highly psychic, far flung and well populated _galactic_ empire of Eldar only gave rise to one. The orks only have two, and they are found all over the galaxy for as long as the eldar have been around.


It has always bothered me as well - to the point where I don't take that bit of old background to be correct, especially since the Necron Codex was released.

The Older background seems to suggest that the Chaos Gods (bar Slaanesh) are essentially human gods. Being created during Terra's dark/middle ages and then being so heavily invested in humanity right up to M41. However in the millions of years prior to human evolution, and following the War in Heaven the Chaos Gods would have easily manifested if (as older background states) they could manifest their consciousness of a couple million backwater humans, who don't have a great effect on the warp anyway.

Look at Slaanesh for example, it took thousands of years for a galaxy-spanning empire (who also happen to be the race in the galaxy that effect the warp most - each Eldar is at least worth dozens of humans in the warp) who were almost fully engrossed in hedonism to birth such a creature, yet Humanity was apparently able to birth 3 of these gods before they had even conquered their own birth-world.

It just doesn't fit. Thats why I take the position that Khorne, Tzeentch & Nurgle gained consciousness sometime between the War in Heaven and the evolution of humanity (which was a time span of millions of years). And only recently (post-Fall of the Eldar) have made such a vast investment in humanity as a species. The Chaos Marine codex seems to imply support for this argument as well.


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## Thousandth Son (Jan 28, 2010)

Necrons awakening, which will own all life including Tyranids (if they manage to complete their Great Work).


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Well I disagree that its the 'negative side' of humanity. Chaos is just that; Chaos. It is unrestraint, pure freedom. It represents the human mind as it truly desires to be (The 'Id' for all you freudians), it is what we consider 'positive' emotions (although in my opinion such a concept does not exist) like love and hope pushed to the extreme. Love pushed to wild abandon, pushed to lust and desire. Hope pushed to constant and flippant change. But that does not mean negative.
> 
> 
> 
> Well that is what Erebus tells Horus, but its not true. The Chaos Gods _do_ care about the Material Realm, and the Emperor posed a threat to their dominance of it - therefore they needed to get rid of him - which they did via the Horus Heresy.


Well emotions pushed to extreme are actually..negative, and chaos gods didnt really form from emotions that are helpful in any way, thus negative.

And it was not erebus who said it, it was some daemon they summoned, and how can you say if anyone was lying if it was not proven nor disproven, and no alternatives are presented? xD



Malus Darkblade said:


> The chaos powers were born around the medieval/ancient human history and I'm certain they require a race with a vast population to sustain it.
> 
> The eldar are extinct, & orks/tyranids would never follow Chaos, so it wasn't really in my opinion that they chose humanity but rather were forced to, especially since mankind's extreme emotions greatly fueled their birth.
> 
> ...


Well yeh...except that i dont remember reading anywhere that chaos gods NEED to feed from humanity or that they would perish without sentient beings in material world:S Unless of course someone could actualy quote or note where thats written


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MyI)arkness said:


> Well emotions pushed to extreme are actually..negative, and chaos gods didnt really form from emotions that are helpful in any way, thus negative.


Not negative in themselves. Negative from a mainstream, social human perspective perhaps, but how can an emotion in itself be bad?



MyI)arkness said:


> And it was not erebus who said it, it was some daemon they summoned, and how can you say if anyone was lying if it was not proven nor disproven, and no alternatives are presented? xD


Well whoever said it, its not true. Read the Daemons Codex 



MyI)arkness said:


> Well yeh...except that i dont remember reading anywhere that chaos gods NEED to feed from humanity or that they would perish without sentient beings in material world:S Unless of course someone could actualy quote or note where thats written


Its not explicity stated anywhere, at least not that im aware of. Its implied here and there, but may not actually be true of course.


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## Thousandth Son (Jan 28, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Not negative in themselves. Negative from a mainstream, social human perspective perhaps, but how can an emotion in itself be bad?


Exactly- they are just negative to a normal, civilised human's thinking and perspective. 
Chaos is just pure emotion, it is a force of nature. You can no more describe Chaos as evil or negative as you can Mother Nature.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Necrons have no hope of taking over the universe...
Their gauss weaponry was nerfed in 5th ed remember?:laugh:


Ill admit that my knowledge of the whole 40K fluff isnt 100%, but in theory Chaos wouldn't want to take over/destroy the whole universe though would they?
I would have thought that they grow in strength basically because of all of the conflict etc between the multiple races in the 40k universe.

Ironically enough, a lot of Khornes power would be gained from the Imperium wouldnt it?

Even though the "Empra" may be a threat to the Chaos gods, wouldnt he be worth more to Chaos alive than he would be dead?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

joebloggs1987 said:


> Necrons have no hope of taking over the universe...
> Their gauss weaponry was nerfed in 5th ed remember?:laugh:


The _monopoly _version of WH40k doesn't really count in the fluff lol


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> The _monopoly _version of WH40k doesn't really count in the fluff lol


Lol, i know.:laugh:


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## forkbanger (Jan 25, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Especially since they can't reinvest in the other two races with huge populations (orks, tyranids).


Neither Orks nor Tyranids fuel the Chaos powers. Orks fuel Gork and Mork, who are currently sleeping. Tyranids are apparently soulless, avatars of the Hive Mind.



Khorne's Fist said:


> There wasn't a vast population on earth in medieval times, IMO certainly not enough to create three seperate chaos gods, especially when you consider a highly psychic, far flung and well populated _galactic_ empire of Eldar only gave rise to one.


No single race created any one Chaos power. The Eldar's hedonism was enough to awaken Slaanesh, and the backlash in their empire tore a hole in realspace that became the Eye of Terror.

Every race seems to contribute to the powers, with the exceptions of the Necrons and Tyranids, who are soulless, and the Orks, who have their own powers.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> If you mean reincarnated physically? No thats not gonna happen. The only way he can return is through the Warp.


If the Emperor was to awaken as the Starchild, he could manifest physically in the same way that greater daemons do.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The Older background seems to suggest that the Chaos Gods (bar Slaanesh) are essentially human gods.


Realms of Chaos and The Lost & The Damned indicated that 3 of the powers had been awakened before the evolution of man - bloodshed, pestilence and chaotic change were primal forces common to all races. They had enough power to become active long ago, but only as multiple intelligent races and fed them did they become more sentient and less animalistic.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

forkbanger said:


> If the Emperor was to awaken as the Starchild, he could manifest physically in the same way that greater daemons do.


Firstly that is pure speculation, and secondly _technically_ speaking, Greater Daemons do not manifest physically when they manifest in the physical realm


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Although I agree with all the gloomy points (I think nids in the long run are way overpowered) I think GW has a few tricks up their sleave for maintaining the statis quo without having to resort to drastic leaps in the storyline like Emperors reincarnating or . Previous plot devices have included: 

Tyranids getting too powerful? Kryptmann show's up with virus that destroys the hive mind a la "Warriors of Ultramar".

Imperium getting too powerful? (hey, I have to cover all eventualities no matter how unlikely :biggrin Loss of a sector to chaos necessitating costly Sabbat Worlds esque crusade.

Chaos on the rampage? Infighting and squabbling will cause a grumbling retreat/unlikely alliance between Eldar and Imperium.

Orks acting up? (See chaos) 

Necrons awakening? Navy planetwide bombardment or similar big explosion as in "Caves of Ice". 

Tau learn to play with the big boys? Cue appearance of hive fleet at an unexpected quarter.

I havent bothered to consider eldar or dark eldar as they're either too few in number (both dark and regular) or merely happy to sit back in commoragh.

All these have been used by GW before and in some cases extensively so I wouldn't be surprised if they were used again as necessary. But my point is that in the short-medium term stalemate is a certainty. 

imo it's no fun if we know whose going to end up winning (nids in poll position) so I really would like to see some nid nerfage. However in the long run most of the other races have their own dramatic endgames too (except maybe those "enigmatic" eldar), imps have return of the jedi-primarchs and the emperor or uber powerful STC, Orks have universe-wide waaaaagh, Necrons have the c'tan awakenings and virtual immortality, tau can cling to their hopes for kick ass tech, and chaos have....well....gods. The likelihood and strengths of these endgames seems to depend on whose codex you're reading and whose has most recently been updated in line with GW's flavour of the year.


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## Harlequinn Farsight (Feb 27, 2010)

God imagine the size of Thrukka in ten years and also id like to say that nids are *assummed* to have loads of other HF's
[course im talking bout the nid vs ork theory]


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

forkbanger said:


> The refusal to move the story forward is getting ridiculous at this point.


yeah i mean for grimness to be effective there has to be a few rays of hope to contrast it with, even uncertain or questionable hope


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Isn`t that what forums are for? I`ve already seen a few threads speculating the future of 40k. Make up your own stuff and see what happens. I already have an idea of how it`s going to play out. It`s pretty grim but like any good story, there is a chance for the good guys.


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## Dempo1992 (Mar 28, 2010)

Certainly is getting gloomier, my money on an eventual winner though would have to be chaos as most of the races are susceptable to what it has to offer, plus for the moment they have a nice little sanctuary in the Eye of Terror, the only way I can really see chaos being defeated is if malal gets a better following which is unlikely since all the war should keep khorne as top dog indeffinately, or if the C'tan are able to seperate the material from the warp where their followers will just kill each other with no new recruits fueling their war efforts


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

Sephyr said:


> We all know and somewhat appreciate that the situation in the 40k universe is darker than a Lars Von Trier movie and getting gloomier by the second.
> 
> This thread is just a way of cataloguing exactly how, and to try and predict the new downers.
> 
> ...


A "happy" ending is still possible. Call me an idealist, but I do believe that if the Imperium, the Tau, and the Eldar were to unite in the face of the galaxy's evils, they do stand a chance. 

There are many schemes to revive the emperor, and they could perhaps work. If that is the case, then the Star Child would (in my opinion) flow back into the Emperor and causing a wave of understanding and compassion. During this moment, the Emperor could perhaps tell his incompetent and misguided high lords to fk off, and then try to form the nessicary alliances with the Tau and Eldar. 

This is just my dream situation....  Please don't be too harsh on it....


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

Platypus5 , Tau and Eldar perhaps, but never the Empire with the others, humans are far too Xenophobic and wouldn't be able to ally with aliens and consider themselves equals.


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

murdock129 said:


> Platypus5 , Tau and Eldar perhaps, but never the Empire with the others, humans are far too Xenophobic and wouldn't be able to ally with aliens and consider themselves equals.


Remember, only the army, the priesthood, and the inquisition are the only reliable hotheads. (X on the army, actually, as they occasionally do work with aliens.) Humans who live next to the Tau Empire don't particularely mind them. In fact, many Imperial citizens actually secretly _support_ the idea of the greater good. And did you know that the Imperium, post heresy, actually signed a minor treaty with the Eldar?

And the Emperor himself probably will not be too xenophobic if he is revived. He would probably see the necessity of working with the Tau and Eldar. And while the High Lords of Terra can come up with bullshit like, "You can't be the real emperor, as that is not what he would have said!" but the Emperor would ultimately come out on top, be it through politics or through force.

So, yes, the Imperium could form an Alliance, provided that the Emperor is revived.


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

They could, but will he be revived? He's already dying, so unless the Illuminati get all the Sensei real quick the Emperor's dead.

And it may be only the army, the priesthood, and the inquisition who hate aliens, but their the ones in power and it doesn't look like that's gonna change any time soon.

And there's a treaty with the Eldar, doesn't mean their gonna be allies any time soon. Or if they do ally they'll work together successfully and long enough to destroy the evil forces before some Xenophobic asshole kills someone and the whole thing goes up like a powerderkeg that's got a heavy flamer aimed at it


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

As I said, Murdock, it is only going to happen if the Emperor is revived.


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