# The use of the tactics "Hull Down"



## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

I've been looking through tactics used in tank warfare and the Hull Down tactic came up, and I found it an interesting one. 

The tactics is basically where you can only see the turret over the top of a hill, allowing the tank to fire over it without being in extreme danger from the enemy. Effectively like the following image:










Now, tanks being obscured means they have to be more than 50% in cover, so, this means that if you had a predator/leman russ/whatever, next to a hill being able to fire over the top (by drawing line of site from the turret of the tank), then being obscured to the guys who you are firing at?

So, is this a viable and legal tactic? Or is it not legal, but could be viable if the rules were different?


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Was a tanker while I was in the Army, most defensive tank tactics are based off that concept. It's like a infantry troop using a foxhole. From my basic concepts of the wh40k rules, I don't see any reason you couldn't use a hull down tactic. It's using LoS, some of the examples in the books were suggesting this from what I can remember. Don't see how it is any different from using armor to screen troops from fire.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

It is a perfectly legitimate tactic, to bad its incredibly hard to find a hill that's not on a 50-40% angle to hide the tank on.

Luckly your old friend Luke has a far more 40k friendly means of getting hull down. You see a rhino is the same chassis as a predator, so if you only have the top turret on a predator it is possible to constantly get obscured while firing you main weapon (Although one twin linked laz will often do little to nothing, still you can keep moving 6" with the coloum and fire). Note this also works if your enemy has a limited fire arc, and you want to fire one sponson and the main turret and still get obscured.

In fact as the turret is not actually a facing in 40k it is even possible to claim the 3+ obscured alliterated to in the rules (Although incredibly unsportsmanlike).

On a side note I was the one who pioneered getting hull down with rhino screens in my local area, by means of two rhino's obscuring my defiler from 36" ground fire.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

if only i was playing my SW still, id be making hull down terrain XD


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Cheers for the feedback guys, I'm interested in tactics used in modern warfare for use in 40k for my podcast, this was one of them .

I think Hull Down is a great tactic, and if at all possible, will be utilised by me


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## jfvz (Oct 23, 2010)

A further question, if you had a terrain peice just shorter than the rhino than could the firepoints still be used?

Im thinking a rhino havoc launcher with either vallina marines (for a heavy weapon + special weapon) or 5 havocs (2 - 4 heavy weapons) hulled down like that for a cheep fire base.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Difficult to say as some rule nazi's will argue that you literally take LoS from the firing hatch meaning you can't see anything that isn't on the second level of a building (do to taking sight from the skin of the rhinos upper hull). However for less assholic games I see no reason why it wouldn't.


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## Grinnsira (Jan 5, 2010)

*Los*



LukeValantine said:


> Difficult to say as some rule nazi's will argue that you literally take LoS from the firing hatch meaning you can't see anything that isn't on the second level of a building (do to taking sight from the skin of the rhinos upper hull). However for less assholic games I see no reason why it wouldn't.


This is easy to fix. Get a lego block and open the hatch place the block in the floor of the rhino and place the guy with the weapon on top of the block and go LOS from the shooter


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

LukeValantine said:


> Difficult to say as some rule nazi's will argue that you literally take LoS from the firing hatch meaning you can't see anything that isn't on the second level of a building (do to taking sight from the skin of the rhinos upper hull). However for less assholic games I see no reason why it wouldn't.


But rules nazis in this case would be wrong, this is the quote from the book:



> When firing a vehicle's weapons, point them against the target and then trace line of sight from each of the vehicles' mountings and along it's barrel, to see if the shot is blocked by terrain or models.


Meaning you don't need to have the windows in view.


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