# Bikes vs. Jump Packs



## RedApostle (Nov 24, 2007)

Hey guys, i'm curious to other peoples opinions i've got two different lists building up to my 1500pt mark and I can't really decide bewteen the two as my effective fast attack selection


Which would you prefer?


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I said Jump Packs, though as a Blood Angels player, my FA choices are made entirely of Attack Bikes ;-)

For normal marines, Speeders are actually the best FA choice you can make (HB/AC Tornados...yum)


However, given a choice between bikers and Assault Squads, put your money on Assault Squads. They're cheaper, more mobile and more effective at assault.

Bikers are ok as a mobile gunline, but they cost a fortune.
If you're allergic to speeders, then Attack Bikes are an ok alternative but not as good for the points compared to C:SM land speeders.

If you want mobile firepoiwer, go with speeders.
If you want a fast assault force, go with jump packs.


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

I use my assault marines every game. I use my bikes appx once every 10 games.

however, for an HQ, Bike is the way to go.


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## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

Being a BA player its difficult to choose since I'm spoiled and get so many fast moving unit options. However I think I would go with Jump Pack Marines, you just get more bang for the buck, they are cheaper to purchase, and IMO they look cooler. Good Luck


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## The General (Nov 7, 2007)

I'd second Engelus - for marine squads assault marines>bikes.
But for HQ's I'd go bike every time.

For chaos things are a little blurrier, as their bikers come with 2 ccw's, which is assault marines main advantage.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

I'd go for Jump Packs as a fast attack selection.

The two play a very different role in the game though. Bikes are more for characters and Heavy Support imo. 

I wouldn't bother with a standard bikes.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

jump packs, so they are cheaper and you can get more in an army.


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## dakari-mane (Mar 9, 2007)

Its not really so simple a choice as one or the other. They preform two totally different roles ont eh battle field. 
Assault marines are for what their name says, you just chuck them at the enemy or use them to counter assault & they come into their own in assault. 
Bikes on the other hand are not as good in assault (though T5 helps) but they are very much jack of all trades. They are a reactionary unit, they can out shoot assaulters, out assault shooters & get the hell away from anything that they cannot outshoot or outassault. Very much a finesse unit.
:wink:


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## Andros (Dec 10, 2007)

I take Bike over Raptors, (Chaos player), my Bikes keep causing hell with my enemy, even Space Marines..... i've got three units of ten, all with Mark of Nurgle, so their kinda tough to killl  and i use them in assualts seeing as if they move 24', they get a 3+ Invunerable as well as 3+Armour, so Lascannons and other AP2/3 weapons are only nullifying one


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

OMG does that make them T6???


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Attack bikes make for a dandy mobile alternative to a Dev squad. Particularly Blood Angels who can get 50 point multimelta bikes. 

It's basically a 6-man 3-gun Dev squad thats tougher, able to move (very fast) and shoot for a similar cost.

For C:SM
Consider a comparably set up Dev squad. 6 men with 3 lascannons (similar role as 3 MM bikes) come in at 195

For the same price you can get 3 MM Attack Bikes, exact same price, but more effective penetration (getting into melta range is not hard with a bike) +1 toughness, Twinlinked bolters, which can doubletap and move, and turbo-boost, which is pretty handy for getting into melta range.

Granted, if you're going to go for HBs, then the Dev squad ends up 15 cheaper, but 15 points is a small price to pay for an anti-infantry squad that can move, or even fire and charge.

I would take attack bikes over devastators, but if you want mobile assault, you;re best off going wiht assault squads.

Regular bikes are just too costly for no better than they are.


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## Andros (Dec 10, 2007)

toughness 5 because of bike, plus another for Nurgle


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## dakari-mane (Mar 9, 2007)

Galahad said:


> It's basically a 6-man 3-gun Dev squad thats tougher, able to move (very fast) and shoot for a similar cost.
> I would take attack bikes over devastators, but if you want mobile assault, you;re best off going wiht assault squads.


The big difference between Devvy's & AB's is that the Devvy's can lose 3 guys to ID weapons & the attack bikes cant. Also the regular chaps can take 3 wounds with no loss of firepower while the bikes lose 1/3 of their shots.



Galahad said:


> Regular bikes are just too costly for no better than they are.


Yes & no. Bikes do exactly what bikes do. The standard squad is a good allround squad. It can kill shooty units in assault & it can hunt assaulting units from a range. I love em.


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## Andros (Dec 10, 2007)

I know assualt Squads are a pain when they have been tooled up right, with the double armed attacks and such, but remember about their crap ranged weapons, 12" tops, and if they not in combat, they get pretty much wasted....... and their attacks could be lowered by damned Dark Elder Witches, pains in the backside i tell you 

which reminds me of something at one of my first Apocalypse games  Sisters of Battle against Chaos, (i won in the end, but funny) his female Inquisitor got charged by my Bikers in dangerous terrain, someone noticed she had some of her leg showing, i passed the terrina checks, then we decided to make me take the passed ones again......."Seduction Test" as she was showing off :shok: still had enough bikes left to kill her and win game


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## squadiee (Nov 4, 2007)

jump packs. They are far more worthwhile, I use them almost every game, while I rarely use my bikes as they are far too expensive, and have limited numbers


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## Sinizter (Dec 10, 2007)

Bikes are just the nastiest units in the game when used properly. I use them with my Dark Eldar, Space Marines, if Tyranids had bikes I would use them too.

Dark Eldar 3 squads of 3 with 6 blasters, and a Archon on a bike.

Space Marines 3 squads of 3 with 6 Plasmaguns, and a Librarian on a bike is even nastier, and doesn't cost a ton more than it's DE equivalent.

I won't give away my dirty trick combo's (I play Dark Eldar so you know I've got a bag full  ) however the sheer surgical striking power of these types of combo units is extreme.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Sinizter said:


> ...
> Space Marines 3 squads of 3 with 6 Plasmaguns...


Aren't you worried about overheat? Bikes are pretty expensive if you're blowing one up every turn you're shooting...

There's a bit of a debate here about bikes in general if you're interested.

On the subject at hand, gotta agree with everyone who said "for general assaults, jump packs, bikes for hunting stuff".


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## Sinizter (Dec 10, 2007)

Even if he overheats he still fires the shot. Beyond that he only gets 2 attacks in the assault, and is just fodder.

But dumping 6 shots of plasmaguns, into a unit of terminators that just deepstruck, followed by assaulting them with a terminator. The points work themselves out.

Like I always say it's the strategy behind the unit, and their goal is to break down hard or units with numbers prior to their assault with the libby.

Which allows a mop up in their assault phase, and you begin the bunny hop of doom from unit to unit starting from their flank.


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## Andros (Dec 10, 2007)

just one problem in that theory, each overheat has a nasty chance of killing your guy, and no, even if it over heats doesn't mean you get the shot off, if your rapid firing and got one overheat the other still work,...... six is kinda overkill, that's why i like Thousand Sons, anti-Marine troops with 24" no matter what  brilliant


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## Sinizter (Dec 10, 2007)

Far as any faq's I've read if Plasma overheats it still fires. Nothing personal but it's not a theory it a tested tactic that works well.

Your opponents will moan about it but it works. If you don't like the risk of plasmaguns overheating you can always take melta's. 

I personally despise a draw game so I take risks and I win big, or lose big. Bad habit I picked up from Dark Eldar. 

The units serve multiple purposes.
1. They screen the Librarian so even if you need to cross open terrain they have to cut through 3+ inv saves to even shoot at the Librarian.
2. They act as tank hunters since when flanking that hard and far into their backfield your bound to run into tanks, and burning tank hulls make great cover.
3. They act as a numbers modifier to assist the Librarian in breaking enemy units.

Typically this combo doesn't strike until turn 3 when it's safely in position.

However if this isn't the type of strategy you like to run with great. We can't all play the same way. My advice to anyone though is just proxy it for a couple of friendly games. Just take 1 bike squad, and a chaplain or libby on a bike and see what it can do.

You will likely be very surprised.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> Far as any faq's I've read if Plasma overheats it still fires. Nothing personal but it's not a theory it a tested tactic that works well.


How do you figure that? You still need to roll to hit and if you rolled a 1 it is still a miss just with the added 'bonus' of possibly blowing up in your face.

As far as the main topic, I like them both equally well and honestly think it all depends on what you have in mind for them. Jump packs make for awesome assaults but they are short range on the weapons in general and that makes them more specialized than the bikes. Bikes cost a bit more but are more all purpose and can be used for more things. Anyone who has had a daemonbomb dropped on them from turboboosting bikes knows how vile the things can be


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

well, if you fire 2 shots then you can overheat on a 2...still a miss for a BS4 marine...but a character with a plaspistol could overheat and still hit if he was BS5.

Anyway, I just don;t think the versatility of the bike justifies its massive point cost.

I;d rather spend a few points more and get a mobile heavy weapons platform in the form of either an attack bike or speeder.

Important to note when considering plasguns for bikes:
While you *can* fire a plasgun from the back of a bike and still charge, a biker's plasgun does *not* count as stationary (meaning no 24" shot if you move). however, you could fire your TL bolters instead if you;re at long range and moved. 

Bikes are ok if you have telert homers backed by termintors, but otherwise, attack bikes, speeders or JPs are superior.


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## dakari-mane (Mar 9, 2007)

Sinizter said:


> My advice to anyone though is just proxy it for a couple of friendly games. Just take 1 bike squad, and a chaplain or libby on a bike and see what it can do.
> 
> You will likely be very surprised.


THB I was suprised by my veteran biker squad. 
The had 4x Bikes, Tank Hunter & 2x Plasma guns.
What I was most suprised at was how awful they were. Time & again they made themselves non-scoring & in one game they even managed to kill themselves off. :suicide:
Just brilliant. From now on its MG's all the way as there are very few instances where PG's are better than MG's.


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

i would go with bikers and attack bikers. chuck a melta on the normal bikes. fast moving small t5 (6 if your nurgle) targets with the abilty turn up behind your tanks and blow the living crap out of them. not to mention attak bikes w MM. thats uber-ouch in an apoc game. lots of space to manouvre in and get behind tanks.


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