# I need Vindicator help



## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

Yes, I may have a thousand or more posts now but when it comes right down to it: I am really not very good at playing this game. Let's just say there's a reason why my win/draw/lose count isn't in my signature.

Anyway, I have acquired myself a Space Marine Vindicator, I've had it for some time now and really, it doesn't do much. The most points it's ever taken out was when it rolled back onto my Sternguard Squad and killed 9 out of 10, as well as blowing up their Rhino (luckily for me the Sergeant survived and, miraculously, wasn't killed in that game despite being wide open for three turns while running for cover).

So the question I'm asking is: how should I use my Vindicator? Area denial, should I flank my opponent, or perhaps form a firebase? The list at the moment goes something like:

*HQ*

Chaplain: Jump Pack – 115 pts

*Troops*

Tactical Squad: Meltagun, Heavy Bolter, Power Sword – 190 pts
Rhino – 35 pts

Tactical Squad: Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher, Power Sword – 195 pts
Rhino - 35 pts

*Fast Attack*

10 Assault Marines: Flamer, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword – 230 pts

*Heavy Support*

Vindicator - 115 pts

[Predator: Heavy Bolter Sponsons – 85 pts]
OR
[Whirlwind – 85 pts]


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## Garven Dreis (Oct 26, 2009)

Personally, I use my Vindicator as a flanking and 'pinning' unit, as most of opponents i've versed concentrate on the Vindicator and end up being a bit more static than normal, in where I usually charge around the other side with the rest of my army. You'd probably want to get another tank or something to back up the Vindicator so it's not a 'obvious distraction is obvious'.

I've seen them used as heavy-hitting spearheads, but always in formations of three, which rules it out for my uses. Honestly, when your opponent sees the Vindicator, it'll probably be vap'ed in the following term, seeing some people have irrational fears 'bout it (i have this problem with Land Raiders).


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## Lither (Apr 2, 2010)

Being a DE player, there is a very good reason for me to have an irrational fear about Land Raiders. But I would say use the Vindicators as a mobile distraction for the Assault Marines. I'd say put the Assault Marines in one flank and the Vindicator in the other. This will mean both get shot. A lot. They will still be on the flanks and out of most lines of sight if deployed and moved right.


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

So what Garven is saying is use it as part of a sort of "sub-force" which approaches the enemy from a different direction while a larger body attacks head on, yes? A good plan I'd say, which would mean taking the Predator over the Whirlwind, as the Whirlwind is a more static choice whereas the Predator has more freedom of movement.

And what Lither is saying is essentially use the classic Pincer movement. This would mean use whichever one, Whirlwind or Predator, and either just send the Vindicator round the flank or send it with the Predator (which in my mind is a better choice).

Here's an idea from me: what if (assuming this is Annihilation) I send each Tactical Squad round respective flanks, and then either charge my Assault Squad, Predator and Vindicator up the middle, or do the same thing except hang back with the Whirlwind in place of the Predator (the other two still charging up the middle). With the Whirlwind this could be better, as it wouldn't have the blocked off fire lanes the Predator might encounter. What do you think?


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## Garven Dreis (Oct 26, 2009)

Cato Sicarius said:


> So what Garven is saying is use it as part of a sort of "sub-force" which approaches the enemy from a different direction while a larger body attacks head on,


Essentially, yes.

So your looking at the board, i usually put the Vindicator and backup Predator on one side of the board near the edge. I sometimes put a Tac squad behind if if i'm feeling charitable. In the middle I usually place more forces, maybe a squad or two and armoured support, however, I don't expect this group to make that much of an impact, as many players will naturally have the middle of the table as their main assault/concentration of fire. This leaves whatever side is left for mechanized infantry/assault troops, which hopefully combined with the Vindicator plugging up one side and your own troops bearing down the middle, will allow your mobile assault troops to blitz and swing around behind their main line.


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

I use mine (two of them!) in conjunction with my melta bikes. Send the bikes in to take out the transport and then use both vindi's to kill who ever was inside. Works great on terminators and Nob mobs!


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## Belthazor Aurellius (Jan 16, 2009)

Rhino Rush. Period.

Ideally, in the scenario I speak of, your Vindicator, flanked by Dozer Bladed Rhinos, spearheads the assault, unloads a volley or two of ordnance, while the tac squads unload at a desired objective, and the rhinos serve as bodyguards, blocking LOS on the vindicator's side and/or rear. To add to the punch, smoke launchers on rhinos make to protect them from destruction while they, in turn, protect the Vindicator.

Some see the Vindicator as a valuable distraction tool. A tactical feint, if you will. Personally, I use it for what it was meant for. A hammer to drive the stake into the heart of the enemy. I usually use my Vindicator in solo, as I have a Land Raider and _that_ draws most of the fire, when both tanks are side by side. Helps to have a squad of tacticals inside the LR. They unload 20" from the enemy, then I spend the next turn or two shelling out the Emperor's justice =P

Anyways, enjoy and have fun

Edit: Reason I say "a volley or two" up there is because even with support, protection and all that, a Vindicator might get taken out after the first shot or two.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

I can't remember a game where I didn't have at least two in my army, if I use them. I think that they are a brilliant worthwhile unit, when used right (which you're asking of course). I agree with "Pincer" movement, which means that the Vindicators on either side will soak up some firepower (and make sure their fronts are facing the enemy), which gives you more time to take out the more important stuff with the bulk of your force. 

I'm probably repeating stuff that has been said, but thats how I generally play them to effect 

-MC


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

I see... so most of you are suggesting flanking with at least some backup, one of you is suggesting use them as a clear-up tool once you've destroyed a transport, and finally one of you suggests charging forward along with Dozer Blade Rhinos.

I think at the moment I will see if I can at least do a flanking manoeuvre somewhat correctly (in my experience it's harder than it sounds), and then maybe as the army increases in size try out different tactics.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

one way I've been using them recently is taking full use of their ordinance fire by havign them behind another vehicle, at the moment it's an assault cannon razorback, and fire over it taking out anything in it's path. the assault cannon mops up the remaining few and if that doesn't do it you've got a squad inside. Only problem would be that the razorback get's immobilised and blocks your vini from advancing. that's when land raiders, assault squads and bikes work well as their shield. they can take out a bucket load of enemies at once so I try and protect them as much as possible...


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## paolodistruggiuova (Feb 24, 2010)

Lord Reevan said:


> one way I've been using them recently is taking full use of their ordinance fire by havign them behind another vehicle, at the moment it's an assault cannon razorback, and fire over it taking out anything in it's path. the assault cannon mops up the remaining few and if that doesn't do it you've got a squad inside. Only problem would be that the razorback get's immobilised and blocks your vini from advancing. that's when land raiders, assault squads and bikes work well as their shield. they can take out a bucket load of enemies at once so I try and protect them as much as possible...


sorry but i think this isnt doable since vindicator's cannon hasnt the bombardment rule so he needs line of sight from the weapon.
you probably misread the ordnance/bombardment rules mate


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

Lord Reevan said:


> one way I've been using them recently is taking full use of their ordinance fire by havign them behind another vehicle, at the moment it's an assault cannon razorback, and fire over it taking out anything in it's path. the assault cannon mops up the remaining few and if that doesn't do it you've got a squad inside. Only problem would be that the razorback get's immobilised and blocks your vini from advancing. that's when land raiders, assault squads and bikes work well as their shield. they can take out a bucket load of enemies at once so I try and protect them as much as possible...


That's not actually allowed, it has to be a *barrage/ordnance barrage* weapon to shoot out of line of sight, a "just ordnance" weapon can't do it.

I can see why you might get confused though.


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## b.anthracis (Nov 18, 2008)

I run a Vindicator in a World Eater Army. 4 Rhinos full of Berzerker, 1 -2 Vindicator and 1-2 Defiler are just rushing towards the enemy lines. Now the opponent has to decide what poses the biggest thread. Usually the choose the defiler because they are easy to kill or the vindis because a S10 DS2 big blast is scary. So my berzerker reaches his lines and cause havoc.

So the role of the vindicator is either to direct fire away from my berzerker, or if this doesn't work, it will be rather unmolested and can shoot the hell out of my opponent.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

b.anthracis said:


> So the role of the vindicator is either to direct fire away from my berzerker, or if this doesn't work, it will be rather unmolested and can shoot the hell out of my opponent.


Regardless of how one wants to use it it all boils down to this. Vindicators are dangerous as fuck, and every player that almost knows his stuff know this. Its either "ignore and hope the Demolisher Cannon scatter way of the entire game" or to nuke it asap, usually the latter. This will buy the rest of your army more time at least:good:

My Vindicator died 5 games out of 6 on the last tournament I was on. That can be compared with the Dread only dying once and the Defiler 2 games. The combination of short range and extreme destructive potential aint something that improves survivability as a Vehicle...


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## Garven Dreis (Oct 26, 2009)

MaidenManiac said:


> Regardless of how one wants to use it it all boils down to this. Vindicators are dangerous as fuck, and every player that almost knows his stuff know this. Its either "ignore and hope the Demolisher Cannon scatter way of the entire game" or to nuke it asap, usually the latter. This will buy the rest of your army more time at least:good:
> 
> My Vindicator died 5 games out of 6 on the last tournament I was on. That can be compared with the Dread only dying once and the Defiler 2 games. The combination of short range and extreme destructive potential aint something that improves survivability as a Vehicle...


This, in the name of the Emperor..

If anyone reading this gets ANYTHING out of this thread, it should be;

-Vindicators have a pretty strong weapon (Demolisher Cannon)
-Said cannon can be reliable SOMETIMES
-As it is a pretty good weapon, most opponents will vape the Vindicator in turns 2-3 (Thats usually my life expectancy for mine, and nothing in this thread really disproves this)
Never underestimate a Vindicator, but don't expect it to win the battle, it's just too much of a target (unless your Blood Angels...)


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Cato Sicarius said:


> That's not actually allowed, it has to be a *barrage/ordnance barrage* weapon to shoot out of line of sight, a "just ordnance" weapon can't do it.
> 
> I can see why you might get confused though.


Not exactly. I did word it wrong There but I don't fire straight over the model. I'd have the razorback up front but a little to the side, assault squad on the other side, Vindi has LOS but still gets a cover save from all over the place

______________Assault_____razorback
______________squad__Vindi
it stilkl is covered by the two units up front and to the side but still has los.... 
Sorry for the confusion there


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## Devinstater (Dec 9, 2008)

I've seen them used well defending your base. If you have one, and you move up, it's easy for people to hit you side AV 11. Guarding you base makes people nervous about just running up the middle because of the big template waiting for them.

And if they want to get rid of them, they have to deal with the AV 13.


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