# Allied Detachment Advice/Guidelines?



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

What are some good rules of thumb for designing allied detachments?

How many points should you invest in it? I'm thinking no more than a third to maaaybe half your points in a big game. 

Has anyone thought of creating allied detachments essentially in a vacuum, just as a sort of snap-on module that you can plug into any given list? (for example, a 500 point detachment you could use to turn a normal 1k list into a 1500, or a 1500 into a 2k?)


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm doing the modular thing.

I am coming up with a Fire Support, Deep Strike, Flyer and CC specialist detachments and then building up an army from a central core.

Like you say working out how much to invest is a bit tricky.


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## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

I don't think allies is something you can just write up a formula for. It will vary greatly depending on the primary and allied armies, and what you're trying to do. Some lists you'll take minimal HQ and Troops allies to unlock a juicy Elite or Heavy slot. Other times you might want the HQ and both allied Troops slots as your main scoring units. 

It's just a new wrinkle in the fundamentals of list building. As long as you cover all the bases as far as unit roles, it doesn't much matter what's primary and what's allies. Do you have your anti-armor? Scoring? Anti-2+? Anti-flyer? Anti-horde? That's what's really important.


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## VanquisherMBT (Apr 18, 2012)

I'll be going for about 1/4-1/2 worth of my points, but won't really be taking allies for any particular tactical reason, simply for the fluff, asthetics and fun of doing it.

From a tactics point of view my allies depend on my main army, my opponent, the mission and the terrain, just like my main army list depends on those


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## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

Unless your army is seriously handicapped in one or more aspects (Tyranids), has a small stable of units that tend to be worth taking (like nids), and can field those units cheaply (still nids..... I'm noticing a problem), I don't think that spending more than 1/4-1/3 of your points at 2000 is a good move.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Nave Senrag said:


> (still nids..... I'm noticing a problem)


The problem being that 'nids can't have allies?


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## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

Magpie_Oz said:


> The problem being that 'nids can't have allies?


Pretty much. I understand GW's reasoning, and I agree. The only problem I have is that nids are probably the army that would gain the most from having allies, and the army that gets screwed the most from not having them.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I think 500 is a good size to shoot for. 1/3 of an average game, 1/4 of a large one and a perfect snap-on module to bring a normal list up to a higher point bracket for pickup games.

Obviously if you;re going for a serious competitive list design you;ll be tailoring every element perfectly for the armies and presumed enemies...but if you just like having a bunch of lists ready for any game why not come up with a forumla?

I'm noticing because of the compulsory crisis hq (not that you wouldn't want one) and fire warrior troop it's hard to come up with a decent tau detachment that's anything more than just fire warriors, a crisis commander and maybe a railhead or a couple broadsides


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Galahad said:


> I'm noticing because of the compulsory crisis hq (not that you wouldn't want one) and fire warrior troop it's hard to come up with a decent tau detachment that's anything more than just fire warriors, a crisis commander and maybe a railhead or a couple broadsides


BING ! Ain't that the truth. I was looking at some kroot to be a cheap way around it but they are too scruffy for my army.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

The only two detachments I am considering are going to be fluff-based, and will simply match other units in other codexes.

For instance, the idea I stole from Da Joka. C'tan plus converted Humans as Necron Cultists. use Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Daemon Prince rules for C'tan, Chaos Cultists as Necron cultists.

Or Overmatrix, unique Spyder, as an Ork Warboss. It transfers commands to the Mindshackle Clutch embedded in the skulls of captured enemy children to use as shock and horror troops against their own kind, aka, counts-as Gretchin. Makes perfect sense, if Overmatrix and the Control Module (Runtherd) die, the control over the children starts to fade, and they flip out and run away.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Magpie_Oz said:


> BING ! Ain't that the truth. I was looking at some kroot to be a cheap way around it but they are too scruffy for my army.


Not just scruffy, but Fire Warriors are still 1+ compulsory according to the codex. Even if you wanted kroot you'd still have to buy FW.

Still, a tooled up Warfish is a useful light tank asset, and dropping a unit of FW to rapid-fire 24 S5 shots at 18" into the enemy from behind it is a useful tactic (just be sure to use nothing but kneeling legs and a nice tall stem for your flight base)


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Oh ok, I don't actually have the Codex so I'm just guessing off Army builder.

Can fire warriors have marker lights? That would make them a bit more attractive as forward observers.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

the team leader can have one, but they only benefit other tau units


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## sgjohnson (Jan 20, 2012)

It really depends on what army you are allying. If you ally guard, like me, by all means take 3 vendettas and 3 LRs. On the other hand if you aren't allying in an overpowered army, I feel 1/4 of your army max should be ally.


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## sgjohnson (Jan 20, 2012)

Magpie_oz: fire warrior sergeants can have markerlights, however they fire at BS3 so its not terribly effective.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Fun fact for all of you talking about how you're going to max this or that, 3 vendettas or 3 land raiders for your allies or whatever.

Go to page 109 and count the choices per slot for an allied detachment.

I'll give you a moment to dry your tears.

Unfortunately what you see is true. Only one choice for every slot, except troops, in which you can take two choices. So if you wanted to take one land raider or one vendetta for allies, go for it. Fortunately for players who like to play games that aren't broken, allies won't let you spam all the UBER JAWESOME units in another codex.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

<cough>
Go open the IG codex, Angel.
LR in this conext clearly stands for Leman Russ.

Russes and Valkyries come in SQUADRONS of 1-3 per FOC slot.

So yes, you can take 3 Vendetta Valks and 3 Russes in your allied detachment.
IG are masters of squeezing the most out of your FOC slots


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I don't have an IG codex unfortunately.

3 Leman Russes in one slot. Wow. I did not actually know that.

On another note, thats absolutely insane.

Carry on.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

In theory an IG allied detachment could have a Company Command Squad with a chimera and up to ten models (commander, 4 troopers and up to 5 advisors) for an HQ 
5 priests, 2 techpriests that don;t take any slots
Say, 10 Stormies in a chimera for an elite choice
a pair of Infantry Platoons for trools...EACH troop slot contains a max of...
-1 5-man Platoon Command squad with a chimera
-5 10-man Infantry squads in chimeras
-5 heavy weapon squads (each with 3 heavy weapon teams (2 men each))
-2 6-man special weapon squads
-1 50-man consript platoon
That's per troop choice with 2 possible slots to fill.
A 3-strong Vendetta Gunship squad for Fast Attack
and a 3-strong Leman Russ squad or Artillery Tank battery

so, in theory, a single IG allied detachment could include up to...321 infantry models and 20 tanks (or 17 tanks and 3 fliers, though if you want tanks you could take a 3-strong Hellhound squad instead of the valks)

Sure, it's a mind-boggling amount of points but, yeah...I see IG being everyone's favorite allies just for sheer variety


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Long term goal is a little army of each codex so I am shooting for 5-700ish points wise. That way I can field 1500ish armies or whatever.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

So you'd rate IG over Tau for long range fire support?

Talking +of 24" here, the point at which GK's run out of puff


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

IG seems to spam better and they are battle brothers with many others.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

IG is a much better option.

The mandatory choices for Tau are all expensive and short to midrange mid-strength with little in the way of AP. If you can afford a heavy choice after that you either get a single tank with a huge cannon that makes it an instant target for everyone, or a trio of broadsides with their own big guns, but are much more expensive.

Meanwhile IG has heavy weapons coming out their ass.
Your HQ unit can be a bunch of dudes in a tank. The tank has two mid-range mid-strength heavy weapons (heavy bolter and multilaser for preference). They themselves can have a heavy weapon in the squad, and up to 2 specials (or 4 specials and no heavies) all of which can easily fire from the spacious 5-man fire port

Your troop platoons get a similar command element, up to 5 infantry squads with optional tanks, each with an optional heavy weapon

Each of those 5 optional heavy weapon squads has 3 heavy weapons in it

Vendetta Valks have 3 tl-lascannons and the option of a pair of heavy bolter sponsons...so 9 lascannons and 6 heavy bolters

And then you got russes with one generally insanely powerful main gun (that can always fire in addition to whatever else if you moved 6" or less and a lot of them are AP2), a hull mounted heavy weapon (that could be up to a lascannon), and a pair of sponsons 9that could be plasma cannons) so there's another 9 heavy weapons dand 3 main cannons

Yeah, lots of long range heavy weapons.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Good lord.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

The IG codex is worth looking into, just for sheer balls out awesomeness if nothing else.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

I ... want .... TAU!!!!!!!! 

IG isn't shiny !


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

If you like midrange anti-troop dakka then go for Tau. You'll get fucktons of S5-7 shots at 30" or less

hell, if you wanna drop a few hundred points on a "Stealth Swarm" you could have one 18-model unit pouring out 30 S5 AP5 shots at 18", moving backwards every assault phase to keep distance and benefiting from a +3 to cover saves (meaning 4+ cover save standing in the middle of an empty lot, and terminator saves with anything better than a bush to hide behind), also about half those shots are pinning

but we're talking close range firepower here.

You want long range support then get yourself some guardsmen.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

money down says everyone who can ally with gaurd will

not going to lie im probably going to quit playing this edition ally rules and all these fucking flyers are pissing me off


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Can I have your models? ;-p


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

fuck i would lend them to someone or sell them but i play emperors children. the pink army makes people stand offish lolz


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## VanquisherMBT (Apr 18, 2012)

5tonsledge said:


> money down says everyone who can ally with gaurd will
> 
> not going to lie im probably going to quit playing this edition ally rules and all these fucking flyers are pissing me off


Why don't you just ask your opponent "can we not use flyers and allies this game please, I'm having difficulty with them so if its ok to skip them"


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## Tossidin (Dec 10, 2008)

Allies guideline:

"Plug your armys weaknesses"

Some examples:
Tau has really bad troops, so invest in allies with good troops, like orks or marines.
Got good troops and sucky shooting? Have it the other way around. Tau are actually quite impressive allies, as you get 3 suit squads, 2 of which have str 7 missiles and broadside unit which are actually one of the better AA units in the game right now due to twin linking. Drones make current suits extremely survivable. You can survive bying one FW squad, which aren't super bad due to str 5 shots at 30'', just bad 
Get IG for bodies, melta and AA (vendetta)
Necrons for extreme flier support
Marines for strong troops and maybe a terminator squad in LR if that is your cup of tea
Eldar for a farseer and a small GJB squad to net you anti psyker and a objective threat

The list of possibilitys go on....


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

5tonsledge said:


> fuck i would lend them to someone or sell them but i play emperors children. the pink army makes people stand offish lolz


Pink can be covered up, or simple greened :-D


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## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

That, or simply use the allies to build on what you were already doing with your main list. For example, adding an SM Tactical squad in a Rhino/Razorback along with a Vindicator, to support a mech IG force with Leman Russ Demolishers could work also, maybe not as uber efficiently as plugging gaps like CC with TH/SS termies, but still a perfectly viable build. 

Logic would dictate that you use them to plug gaps, but that doesn't stop you from using the allies to reinforce the overall capabilities of the main force (even adding redundancy of purpose. IG heavy support is great and all, but some other codices offer similar units which perform a similar function, for cheaper).

Personally, i think that if the allied contingent is larger than the primary detachment, you're doing something seriously wrong (unless you're doing a huge IG platoon with spammed Heavy Support squadrons/Vendetta spam - lots of troops and vehicles justifies the hefty cost - maybe you should be doing the allies the other way around if this is what you want to play??), so i would say ~1/3 at MOST should be dedicated to allies, so that you don't lose the hitting power of the main detachment (which is vital, otherwise you cannot dominate any phases of the game like most pure armies can - IG pwn in shooting phase just by sheer numbers of shots), and also dont suffer from low model count.


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## sgjohnson (Jan 20, 2012)

Leman Russes are now insanely powerful, even more than before. Reason? No "centre of blast". I was popping 1 Dark Elf vehicle a turn. With a pie plate it's almost impossible to miss. 

Leman Russ Punishers are also now good. Throw on Pask and HB sponsons and you have 29 BS4 S6 shots. In 6th ed AP - doesn't carry any penalty, and you can easily glance light/medium vehicles to death in a single volley. With that many shots you will average around 5 hits on a flyer. 

Lastly, if you want to hold an objective, buy a 30 man guard platoon, stick a commissar in it, and order it to dig in every turn. No amount of firepower can dislodge 31 wounds with a 2+ save. Except for flamers.


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