# Still struggling - fantasy army



## sitaavanu (Mar 2, 2009)

Hello all,

I've now played 3 games of fantasy. And cannot setle on an army. Unfortunately this is not because I likw ao many of them it is more so that I can't find one that has the strengths I value.

I think the best way to sum up my philosophy when it comes to war games is "I'll get through there army eventually as long as I can control my opponents actions/options."

Due to some play experince i've settled on some things i'd like to see/be able to do.

In one game I had over half my army run off the table after 1 unit broke. This actually really turned me away from the game. It was bad dice rolls and I know very well that bad dice rolls can completely destroy a game but just flat loosing that massively really was a deterent. I don't mind paying extra points for special bonuses like spawnings etc to avoid this but I never want to play an army that worries about this again.

Speed kills. I need to be able to get my guys where I want them when i want them there. I really liked the ambush rules and am ok with this but the "slow and steady" thing is not for me.

Focal points. I realize that this is can be a weakness but I really enjoy having that one or two models that really drive the army. This is probably hang over from warmachine where one model more or less dictates how your army plays but I do like that.

Out numbered = out of luck. In another game i played simply due to number of models i was facing I didn't have a chance. When he was rolling twice as many atacks as me my guys just started falling. I don't want to play an army with tons of guys/units so I know this will come up alot. Not sure how to handle this. I think armor saves will be important or possibly some magic that inhibates my opponents ability to shoot/get off all thier attacks on me.

I see now that everyone has magic and that it is important in some way shape or form to them. I like this alot and would like one of my strengths to be stopping the enemy casters from doing thier thing. I also like the idea of my magic screwing with the enemy. Focing them to make panic checks or run in a random direction.

Solos I still really like solos. Models like the OK hunter that run around doing there thing or the BoC chariots. Rank and file is good and dandy but I realize every army needs some core rank and file guys but i'd like my hero choices to be more on the nimble mobile side.

Shooting, once again every army needs it but I'd prefer to only shoot out of neccessity a unit of high priced shooters to take out important ranged enemy models nothing more and nothing less.

I don't mean this to be a I WANT IT ALL post but i feel SO VULNERABLE with all the armies i've seen played so far its really hard for me to feel confident walking into the battlefield.

Summary:
Which armies have:
A low chance of breaking/fleeing
A mid to low model count
Take a hit while they get up front
Get up front fast
A solid ranged option (just one to get at targets hard to reach in melee)
The best movement/placement options. Able to get where they need to be quickly and dictate when and where combat will happen
Good defenses vs magic.




Edit:
I'm hoping that one of these armies will fit what I'm looking for
BoC
DoC
LM
OK
OnG
Skaven
WE

The other factions are either represented at my game store (don't like mirror matches) or the majority of the models do not appeal to me.

However i'd lke people to voice thier opinions on any army that would fit what i'm looking for to give me a better view of feedback.


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

sitaavanu said:


> Summary:
> Which armies have:
> A low chance of breaking/fleeingdwarfs, lizardmen, undead
> A mid to low model countdwarfs, all knight brets, elves
> ...


i have put the armies i _think _most sutiabl for each catagory. dwarfs appear 5 times up there, and with the gryocopter, may even fit into the best movement option. also, all armies have a built in weakness of some sort, the trick is to negate it with your tactics.


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## Vaul (Dec 29, 2008)

I would have thought Daemons of Chaos with an emphasis on Slaanesh, or Warriors of Chaos with a lot of Slaanesh Marks. These guys won't have a problem with running away EVER, they can potentially be low model count and very fast, especially with steeds of slaanesh, marauders on horseback, screamers, warhounds etc, and you definately have good magic and character options.


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

You're looking for either a Dark Elf or High Elf army then

A low chance of breaking/fleeing - Leadership 8-10

A mid to low model count - yep

Take a hit while they get up front - A fast moving Dark Elf army (dark riders as core, hydras, shades, manticores) is on your opponent in turn 2 so only needs to suck up 1 turn of shooting. The uber High Elf lists are a bit slower but have units that can take the beating (Phoenix Guard for example)

Get up front fast - See above for Dark Elves, High Elf infantry is pretty nippy compared to everything else

A solid ranged option (just one to get at targets hard to reach in melee) - Bolt Throwers, Crossbowmen/Archers, and some of the best magic in the game.

The best movement/placement options. Able to get where they need to be quickly and dictate when and where combat will happen - Again Dark Riders, though Dragon Princes are rock hard in a high elf army and H.elves get 50% more special choices.

Good defenses vs magic. D.Elfs have the ring of hotek, this can and will lock down the magic phase entirely if you use it right H.elves can have MR3 MR2 MR1 Total immunity to magic, a 2+ward save against all wounds caused by magic and Teclis to spread around their units.

Edited: Red text is for mod use only - squeek


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

sitaavanu said:


> Which armies have:
> A low chance of breaking/fleeing
> A mid to low model count
> Take a hit while they get up front
> ...


Based on your preferences and the possible armies you listed I would suggest that DoC or LM are your best bet to fill most of those tick boxes. Both have got strong magic and CC phases and whilst daemons don't have much shooting, they make up for it in offensive magic. Both can be relatively small to medium sized armies and can move quickly and take a beating whilst doing so. In terms of break tests DoC use instability tests and LM are coldblooded, so both stay in combat longer than other armies normally.

Magic wise they are both strong, magical defense is something that can be dealt with by application of DS and DD normally, so if you take a strong magical list you shouldn't need to worry too much. However both armies have a couple of extras like the shield of the mirrored pool and the Slaan discipline that gives MR(3) for LM and most of the Khorne DoC have MR too.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Almost sounds like he's describing OK... they're fun and meet almost all your criteria, but they aren't all that strong.

As for teh whole army running away on bad dice roles can I suggest a BSB... so you at least get 2 bad dice rolls before your central units run.


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## sitaavanu (Mar 2, 2009)

Hehe glad to see we can all agree to disagree. There are four forums i posted this on to get as much feedback as possible and after doing a check list for each army it ends up that LM OK and WE are all tied for first with 6 recomendations. So I will be trying to get some games in proxying these (hoping to get a game in on Wensday). If i do i'll have a report up about how things went.


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

ummm daemons would be your best bet man! With blood crushers, flesh hounds, and bloodletters, you've got the mobility you need and the hitting power that is nigh unstoppable. Magic Resistance is pretty good too. the only shooty unit are the flamers of tzeentch and they shoot crazy shots for a unit of 6. A Bloodthirster would fix your need for an individual who can hang around and slaughter most if not all things around him... mmmmm Khorne!


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## sitaavanu (Mar 2, 2009)

Like your avatar Horus. That pushes DoC up tying them with the other 3. So many games to tryout still lol. 

Though DoC models are kinda iffy on me some i really like others i really hate. Will have to see if the models you mentioned are appealing or not.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

A lizard man list with a few stegadons could fit what you want.
The stegs will keep your model count in the mid to low level.
they're cold blooded so unlikely to run much.
With units like terradons, razordons, salamanders and coldones you can dictate where your enemy goes.
There are a few good options to make characters go it alone such as stegadons and the freaky t rex looking thing (its name escapes me at the moment)
added to this you can do a list that totally dominates the magic phase.
The problem you may find (with any list) is that most effective army builds throughout the army books will only focus on one or two of the things you want although they have units that can do what you want by trying to do to many things at once you dilute the effectiveness of the army.


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## Erie Ed (Feb 21, 2009)

sitaavanu said:


> In one game I had over half my army run off the table after 1 unit broke.


must have been playing skaven


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## sitaavanu (Mar 2, 2009)

Erie Ed said:


> must have been playing skaven


Gobbos actually.


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

hahah that says it all, you definately need to stay away from rats and gobbos LOL. the nice thing about daemons is the versatility of the gods. You can pick and choose which models to actually buy and play. You're not set on one god or the other, or you can just play one god... very versatile


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

Which armies have:
A low chance of breaking/fleeing
Anything with Ld 8+ is good here. Any Elf, Dwarf, Warriors of Chaos, and Bretonnian Knights fit here. Lizardmen have Coldblooded which in some cases is even better!
Flat out unbreakable is covered by Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts and Daemons

A mid to low model count
You want elite troops that get the job done.
Warriors of Chaos, Dwarfs, Elves, Lizardmen, Daemons and all cavalry are good choices here Ogres have very few models but they are hard to master and their armor is mediocre at best.

Take a hit while they get up front
Daemons have a ward save which is as good as most standard infantry armor. 
Your Dwarfs, warriors of chaos and lizardmen are known for good armor

Get up front fast
Cavalry is your quickest option followed by elves and skaven. Skaven really don’t match what you are asking for though.

A solid ranged option (just one to get at targets hard to reach in melee)
You only need one good ranged unit to cover this requirement. Everyone but Vampires has one.

The best movement/placement options. Able to get where they need to be quickly and dictate when and where combat will happen
Again, cavalry is really good here. So are vampires because they can summon fresh troops wherever they need them.

Good defenses vs magic.
If you don’t want to be bringing wizards to stop the enemy magic then you need dwarfs. They start with 2x the dispel power of any other race.

It seems based on what I see there that Dwarfs are your best option. Their biggest disadvantage is that they are “slow” with a base speed of 3”. When you consider that 60-70% of the game will be played in close quarters and that dwarfs can march even within 8” of the enemy… They can actually be one of the faster armies. They are really good when the enemy tries to drop a flyer behind your line to march block you. They also have great armor, great leadership and some amazing warmachines.


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## Erie Ed (Feb 21, 2009)

sitaavanu said:


> Gobbos actually.


heh yeah then you wouldn't enjoy playing skaven it's like a more advanced goblins and orc's army, and better shooting and magic.


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## Grik (Jul 28, 2008)

Erie Ed said:


> heh yeah then you wouldn't enjoy playing skaven it's like a more advanced goblins and orc's army, and better shooting and magic.


I disagree with that. Skaven and Gobos are the exact same to me. They both can be horde armies, they both run like bitches when a single unit dies. Skaven have a bigger potential for damage in the shooting phase though, the downside is that it will hurt them just as often as it will hurt whomever they are facing.

As for the OP,we really can't make the choice for you. Just go to your local Games Workshop store, or your friendly local games store and take a look through the fantasy army books. Don't read them just a quick glance through them, and pick the one army you think would be most able to do what you want to do. And don't ask a Games Workshop employee for advice on starting an army, they can be total jackasses, especially in the US.


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## whirlwindofdecay (Mar 13, 2009)

sitaavanu said:


> Summary:
> Which armies have:
> A low chance of breaking/fleeing
> A mid to low model count
> ...


I'm only looking at LM and DoC for this, as those seem the two most viable out of your list.

Low chance of fleeing - Id say LM for coldblooded, or DoC for the Instability.
Mid to Low model count - LM can have as few as 50 models on the field and still be effective, with a few high priced hard hitters. DoC can go either direction and still be effective.
Take a hit on the way there - DoC get a 5+ ward at the worst, most LM models dont get a ward save, except Slann, but the pricier models get a monster sized armor save.
Get up front fast - DoC have slanesh, for things that move on land at fly speeds, and for LM the slower ones are the ones who can take the most hits.
Solid ranged option - DoC can have a large amount of ranged via the magic phase, as well as LM, but LM has moving artillery as its ranged option also.
Best move/placement options - LM is only better than DoC slightly with this.
Magic defenses - a Heavy magic army for LM is slightly better than DoC, unless DoC is either pure khorne or pure tzeentch.


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## sitaavanu (Mar 2, 2009)

Didn't get to play but watched a few games.

WE vs VC
HE vs Empire
Gobbos vs DE

Will fill in with detials and opinions later.


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## sitaavanu (Mar 2, 2009)

Sorry its taken so long to get back in touch.

As far as previous games go what i saw was the following.

WE vs VC
WE army was VERY VERY shoot I think his only melee unit was some dryads and a treeman. I'd like to have a strong range option but this was a bit over the top for my taste. Its hard for me to get psyched up about something that is boring for me to imagine (archers are usually not very dynamic in my mind). VC models aren't really my thing and while I really liked the amazing character the rest of the army seemed to be a waste just there to hold up things till something strong could come along and actually bweat them.
(they played two games each of them ended up with a minor victory)

HE vs Empire
Empire ended up winning this one. The empire player brough tons of pistollers/outriders a steam tank and a warrior priest. HE player brough only two mages and alot of cav and spearman. The game was very close until the warrior priest got into melee and just stated to rip apart the HE player (WP had an item that let him swap stats with a model and then he would challenge them). Neither army really interested me though it was very exciting to watch.

Gobbos vs DE
Game was called before completion because one guy had to go home. Gobbos were basically everything I never want to play. I think he had 6 or 7 blocks of 30 NGs with fanatics in all them. And a character caster (guy who has a big squig with him). DE player had tons of random stuff and what seemed to be bad tactics basically feeding his troops one at a time into each unit and getting eaten up by fanatics. Gobbo player lost 2 or 3 units to bad leadership checks (did not bring a bsb or any other support to boost his leadership rolls). DE models were gorgous and due to the variety he had it seemed veruy interesting to play but his tactics did not allow for me to see what he was capable of.


Not very much help i'm sure but i said i'd report so I am.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Though you may already be aware of this, it is worth pointing out that you cannot get a good feel for an army by just watching a few matches played by someone else. The armies you watched may not have appealed in the forms you saw, but there are plenty of ways to play each army. For example the Wood Elves could have taken all tree spirits and had no shooting at all, the VC could have dual Varghulfs and ghouls for core with no 'soft units' in sight.

The Empire player could have brought a gunline army with a popemobile (the item is called Van Horstmann's Speculum by the way), the High Elf player probably should have brought less core units (from your albeit brief description). The gobbo player could have taken all Orcs instead and the DE player can take anything from CC heavy, magic heavy, shooing heavy, monster heavy, etc.

My point being, don't judge an army by how somebody else plays it. They might love the chaos that is night goblins and then you will never see how powerful an all Orc army can be. They might adore fluffy all core HE armies but you would miss the power of a heavy magic, hard hitting double dragon list.


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## Stuntiesrule (Mar 22, 2009)

OK is going to be the lowest model count they don't run often and have leadbelchers to shoot stuff, they are all like calvary units well compared to dwarfs at least. OK would be best but that is just me, fun magic if you want it to


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

OK are good fun if you dont mind playing for fun and not to win. Im still getting used to them and am starting to win a few games but they can never create a power list to rival some other armies.

Basically everything in an ogre army is comic... they are somehow just less 'serious' then some of the other armies (with the exception of orks) and while your model count will be low your unit count will be high- MSU is almost obligatory with OK....with 3 ironguts able to put in 3 S4 impact + 9-10 S6 attacks most enemy units are gonna fear you... especially if you can get 4 units of them into a 1000pt army


Biggest strengths- everything is fast and hard, the whole army causes fear (except gnoblars... but not even other gnoblars care about them so why should I? )
Biggest weakness- no cavalry (so can be out-manouvered), no long ranged fire capable of taking out large targets. NO fire based attacks at all- plague bearers and monsters can walk all over you


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## Darktheos (May 9, 2008)

I found when I started playing I loved the WE minture range. You can get a good mix of combat with dryads and shooting with Glade Guard, but I also found they take some finesse to play so don't go in thinking you will whip somebody first try (it can happen but more likely than not you will get minor loses til you learn them).

And the best way to learn which army you like the feel of is to play a few proxy games with each army. I mean get out something to fake the minis and play a game with a willing friend.


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