# Blood Angels Rumors



## Zion

From Natfka:


> via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
> -Clam Pack Captain in a 2nd Edition Golden Armor Design, armed with Combi-Melter
> -Box with all options for the Predator (Baal, Detructor and Annihilator, new Melta weapon in Turret option)
> -Honour Guard and Blood Brothers Multi Box
> 
> Blood Brothers have survived as members of the Death Company and turned back to normal Astartes, they are like Vanguard Veterans but more "BA-like" and with different weapon options.


So I see potential rage occuring if the Death Company thing is true. 

And confusion about how the Flesh Tearers are organized on my part if it's true.


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## Vaz

carrying blood meltas and blood swords and riding blood raiders and shooting blood bolters and dying blood deaths and bleeding blood blood.


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## Zion

Vaz said:


> carrying blood meltas and blood swords and riding blood raiders and shooting blood bolters and dying blood deaths and bleeding blood blood.


I don't know, I think it needs more Blood. Like Blood Helmets and Blood Armor and Blood Packs and Blood Bolts and Blood Axes and Blood Boots and they come packaged with Blood Bases.


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## Bindi Baji

I heard of a new cut predator coming last year but there was no mention of baal at the time - but it would make sense for a completely inclusive box


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## Khorne's Fist

Zion said:


> So I see potential rage occuring if the Death Company thing is true


I've been running Death Company and reclusiarch as allies for my SWs to count as wulfen, and they have been MVPs on several occasions. If they change I will not be impressed.


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## ntaw

Zion said:


> Blood Brothers have survived as members of the Death Company and turned back to normal Astartes


EDIT: Lemartez and Mephiston both fell to the Black Rage: Lemartez lives in stasis between battles, and Mephiston completely beat it and transformed into the beast that he is. It would be pretty friggin' crazy to have squads of Lemartez's.

*still doing lines of salt...anyone want in??


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## Varakir

ntaw said:


> *still doing lines of salt...anyone want in??


That's all i'm doing until the 24th. Line 'em up! :victory:


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## Zion

I only do lines of finely powdered sea salt.


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## venomlust

Can we do the lines off a bloodle-- I mean, daemonette's ass?


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## Zion

venomlust said:


> Can we do the lines off a bloodle-- I mean, daemonette's ass?


Better than doing them off her "front".


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## scscofield

They will also be able to purchase the 'Sparkle' upgrade.


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## Jacobite

If GW thinks it will sell more miniatures they'll change the fluff without a second thought. Not the first time they have done it and it won't be the last. Sounds like a shit idea to me personally but then again I haven't liked the fluff behind most of their new units to be quite honest.


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## Adramalech

venomlust said:


> Can we do the lines off a bloodle-- I mean, daemonette's ass?


I want to do them off the bloodletter's ass, for what it's worth...

maybe later, he and I can have coffee in the back of my car.


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## venomlust

But why would you want to have coffee... oh. Well, be gentle with him :laugh:.


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## Adramalech

venomlust said:


> But why would you want to have coffee... oh. Well, be gentle with him :laugh:.


I don't want him to be gentle. :spiteful:


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## JAMOB

Zion said:


> From Natfka:
> 
> 
> So I see potential rage occuring if the Death Company thing is true.
> 
> And confusion about how the Flesh Tearers are organized on my part if it's true.


Wait what in the hell Mephiston is awesome because he's the only one to resist the black rage... Ummn...



Vaz said:


> carrying blood meltas and blood swords and riding blood raiders and shooting blood bolters and dying blood deaths and bleeding blood blood.


blood for the blood angel :crazy:



ntaw said:


> still doing lines of salt...anyone want in??


They're Blood Angels, not demons. Wait...



Jacobite said:


> If GW thinks it will sell more miniatures they'll change the fluff without a second thought. Not the first time they have done it and it won't be the last. Sounds like a shit idea to me personally but then again I haven't liked the fluff behind most of their new units to be quite honest.


Yeah I don't doubt that they would, but it's damned inconsiderate of them


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## ntaw

JAMOB said:


> They're Blood Angels, not demons. Wait...


....and with the new Daemonology (whatever one lets you summon Daemons) psychic table, maybe I can do a renegade Company of mutating Blood Angels! Wahoo!


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## The Son of Horus

-_- Mephiston is special because he's the only one who has ever beaten the Black Rage. The whole point of the Death Company is for the Space Marines to die reliving the passion of Sanguinius, and if they somehow manage to survive the battle, it's the job of the Chaplains (and in the last Codex, specifically Astorath) to put them down. I'd like to see them not retcon all that and make it so the Black Rage is something beatable and there are squads of veterans who've done it-- it really takes away a strong element of the Blood Angels' character.


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## Chaplain-Grimaldus

ntaw said:


> ....and with the new Daemonology (whatever one lets you summon Daemons) psychic table, maybe I can do a renegade Company of mutating Blood Angels! Wahoo!


That is actually a pretty cool idea.


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## Khorne's Fist

The Son of Horus said:


> -_- Mephiston is special because he's the only one who has ever beaten the Black Rage. The whole point of the Death Company is for the Space Marines to die reliving the passion of Sanguinius, and if they somehow manage to survive the battle, it's the job of the Chaplains (and in the last Codex, specifically Astorath) to put them down. I'd like to see them not retcon all that and make it so the Black Rage is something beatable and there are squads of veterans who've done it-- it really takes away a strong element of the Blood Angels' character.


Agreed. The thing about Mephiston beating it is that there is a shadow over him because if it. Did he do it all himself, or did he have "outside" help. Is he possessed by a demon just waiting on the right moment to act?

If they change it so that there are whole squads like him running around, are they going to have a special rule that allows the to turn into blood letters?


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## Jacobite

Removing it really removes one of the last really iconic "tragic" quirks of the fluff (no Grand Master fairy dust Draigo does not fucking count) for me. As others have said there is only one marine to survive the black rage and that's Meph, the Black Rage is not a case of the flu with a side order of the uncontrollable urge to have raw steak, it's not just something you get over. If that's such a common thing do (common enough to have a recognised unit for it) then what happens to Tycho? You know that Captain who had to be permanently assigned to battle duties because he was borderline the entire time and then fell to the Black Rage and died at Armageddon? He was just a weak one? If it's something you can recover from then why not induce it and thin the herd a bit? 

Yeah fuck off with that shite thank you. At this rate we will be having female space marines before the decade is out.


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## Bindi Baji

The new over powered ex-death company will be armed with power ropes that they skip with, 
you do have to roll a d6 every turn in case they cut off their own legs but the ropes themselves will take down a titan if you survive long enough to get to one


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## Jace of Ultramar

Wow, that's some interesting bits of news. Hmmm... Jump rope D weapons.


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## Wookiepelt

Bindi Baji said:


> The new over powered ex-death company will be armed with power ropes that they skip with,
> you do have to roll a d6 every turn in case they cut off their own legs but the ropes themselves will take down a titan if you survive long enough to get to one


Hmm... considering that the daughter is busy working on her BA army, I best get busy with working on creating these "D-strength" power ropes for her!!! :laugh:


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## ntaw

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> That is actually a pretty cool idea.


With many modelling options!

Seems like everyone has forgotten that Lemartez ALSO got the Black Rage and is 'living' with it in that he's kept in stasis between battles but not overcome by the affliction when on the battlefield. What if there's simply more instances of that happening, not people getting over the BR like with Mephiston? I'd take a squad of those guys before I'd take a squad of Sternguard in my BA army, seems legit. If they Chapter has known about the Red Thirst for so long it's bound to happen that they start to, for lack of a better word, prepare their psyches to rebuff the maddening blood lust. Maybe some succeed and it lets us play 0-1 unit of 5 Bloody Death Company, where they swing Blood-Swords and use Blood-Pistols...whatever. As long as I gets me some cheaper (points cost) models and Chapter Relics I'm good.

Only way I'll lose my shit is if RAS stop being Troops/Scoring for BA. Give me a new squad, hurray! Invalidate half my army, go fuck yourself!


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## maximus2467

I personally like this idea, I think it adds even more character to a very unique army, I love BA but they're just not competitive enough anymore, most of their bonuses have been nerfed (furious charge, FNP) and it really took something away from them, a new unique to BA squad is just what the doctor ordered. Interested to hear about a melta variant of the pred too, I wonder if it will just be a mm or wether it will have additional rules allowing it a greater range?

Think I may need to get my red paint out once more


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## ntaw

maximus2467 said:


> furious charge, FNP


I didn't even think of how the new BRB could change this up. I no longer know how to feel...


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## Vaz

ntaw said:


> Only way I'll lose my shit is if RAS stop being Troops/Scoring for BA. Give me a new squad, hurray! Invalidate half my army, go fuck yourself!


Right now, that is the only thing going for Blood Angels that's unique more than super special snowflake assault unit A, even more super special snowflake assault unit b, and the superest specialist snowflakiest assaultiest unit c.


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## venomlust

What does RAS stand for?


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## Creon

Regular Assault Squad.


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## maximus2467

So.....any rumours as to when the release date will be?


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## Creon

Based on the publications schedule rumor entry here, After ORks


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## OIIIIIIO

(On knees praying) Dear Jesus, or God Emperor of mankind, please grant the gent's writing my codex the wisdom to make my codex playable. 

I just really want a good, fun codex, not looking for SW fucking OP level codex. Nor do I search for a broken as fuck dex that we call Tau or Eldar. No my good sir, I only ask that when they print my dex and I pay my hard earned money for it (because I fucking will) that it be better than a bag of dicks. I mean ... that could make a blind homosexual guy quite happy to get a bag of dicks, but not so much for me ... pretty sure I do not even like dicks. 

What I am trying to get to here GEoM is this ... I will not suck your dick for a good codex, but I will jack you off while wearing a work glove ...

Your ever faithful man-servant .... 

OIIIIIIO


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## Archon Dan

May He hear you.


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## ntaw

Vaz said:


> Right now, that is the only thing going for Blood Angels that's unique


Essentially. Take that away and GW may as well tear out my blood-heart. At least make it so Tactical squads can take Chainswords instead of Bolters.....at least.

IF that were to change.


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## JAMOB

ntaw said:


> Essentially. Take that away and GW may as well tear out my blood-heart. At least make it so Tactical squads can take Chainswords instead of Bolters.....at least.
> 
> IF that were to change.


I don't know. If they make them as good as the SM ones (though I still want my melta!) then I don't think I would mind them not being troops so much. It would still suck, a lot, but it wouldn't be too bad. Anyway, unbound :laugh:


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## ntaw

JAMOB said:


> If they make them as good as the SM ones


What's better about SM Tacs aside from points cost? We have access to more/arguably better weapons and vehicles (due to Fast).


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## JAMOB

ntaw said:


> What's better about SM Tacs aside from points cost? We have access to more/arguably better weapons and vehicles (due to Fast).


Well, points, but also they can take 2 special weapons in a 5 man squad. That's killer. True, they lose the Hand Flamers and the Meltas which I would not like, but I would rather have two 5pt flamers than one and 2 10pt s3 ap6 flamers. 15 points less for not too much less damage output.


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## Nacho libre

I hope to god that matt ward(destroyer of fluff) isn't writing this.


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## Zion

Nacho libre said:


> I hope to god that matt ward(destroyer of fluff) isn't writing this.


Since he did the last one how could it get worse? Also his writing g has gotten a lot tighter since then.

Not that you have anything to worry about I think, last heard he wasn't personally working on anything in 40k.


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## Nacho libre

Zion said:


> Since he did the last one how could it get worse? Also his writing g has gotten a lot tighter since then.
> 
> Not that you have anything to worry about I think, last heard he wasn't personally working on anything in 40k.


Thank fuck.


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## Zion

Nacho libre said:


> Thank fuck.


Aw, you're going to make him cry!


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## Nacho libre

Zion said:


> Aw, you're going to make him cry!


Don't make me try.:laugh:


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## Jacobite

Zion said:


> Aw, you're going to make him cry!


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## Zion

I love that cat.


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## Bindi Baji

Nacho libre said:


> I hope to god that matt ward(destroyer of fluff) isn't writing this.


Each codex now comes from a good few of the development staff, odds are he will have some involvement but no one seems to have outright control of each codex now, which has been needed for awhile


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## Majorian

ntaw said:


> Seems like everyone has forgotten that Lemartez ALSO got the Black Rage and is 'living' with it in that he's kept in stasis between battles but not overcome by the affliction when on the battlefield. What if there's simply more instances of that happening, not people getting over the BR like with Mephiston? I'd take a squad of those guys before I'd take a squad of Sternguard in my BA army, seems legit. If they Chapter has known about the Red Thirst for so long it's bound to happen that they start to, for lack of a better word, prepare their psyches to rebuff the maddening blood lust. Maybe some succeed and it lets us play 0-1 unit of 5 Bloody Death Company, where they swing Blood-Swords and use Blood-Pistols...whatever. As long as I gets me some cheaper (points cost) models and Chapter Relics I'm good.


I mean isn't there some fluff about how Corbulo and the Priests have been working super hard to cure the flaw? I overheard something last night where maybe you can be a blood brother only after you've managed to survive the Black Rage in battle, and there's only a slim chance that you'll not mutate horribly and turn into some blood beast bleeding blood angels left and bloody right to spill blood for the bloo---Emprah?

Also yeah Chapter Relics. 
OOh, Blood Brothers are a special unlock/honor guard upgrade for Corbulo ONLY (who gets bumped up to HQ or I guess re-bumped right? I didn't play 4th) when he is taken as an HQ. That would actually make fluff sense as he would be the one who would've cured them/needs to keep an eye on them. If they fail a leadership test, maybe they go berserk or something (I know they're supposed to be cured---but even people in the blood angels think that Mephy might not be completely A-OK), and lose a point of BS and their FnP is taken on a 3+, but for Kill Points they count as destroyed (representing Corbulo using heaven's teeth to rend them to death after the battle ends).
Corbulo and Blood Bros, get Artificer armor, Corbulo takes FnP on 2+, others still on a 4+, but they've been through it AAALLLL so they get a 4++ too. These guys have a serious rivalry with the nihilistic Chaplains and maybe if you take blood bros you can't take a reclusiarch as an hq or a chaplain in the elites, so no uber killy suicidal Death Company.

Yeah, I don't have faith in GeeDubs.

Majorian


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## MidnightSun

Nacho libre said:


> I hope to god that matt ward(destroyer of fluff) isn't writing this.


I want Matt Ward to write any Codex I play. I can make up my own fluff, but getting people to accept my own rules is far harder.

I'd rather have Matt Ward's meh fluff and good rules than Kelly's good fluff and bad rules or Cruddace's... I don't even know, Cruddace's crud.


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## ntaw

MidnightSun said:


> I can make up my own fluff, but getting people to accept my own rules is far harder.


So very valid.



Majorian said:


> Blood Brothers are a special unlock/honor guard upgrade for Corbulo ONLY


It would be interesting to make Corbulo into a character than can only be attached to one (type of) squad, like Lemartez who can only be taken with a DC unit.


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## DeathGlam

MidnightSun said:


> I want Matt Ward to write any Codex I play. I can make up my own fluff, but getting people to accept my own rules is far harder.
> 
> I'd rather have Matt Ward's meh fluff and good rules than Kelly's good fluff and bad rules or Cruddace's... I don't even know, Cruddace's crud.


This, Ward at least brings enthusiasm to the table, some codex writers seem to lack passion for projects that are not armies they already collect, which considering they are paid to do a job that many people would love and effects thousands of people's enjoyment, is disrespecful IMO.


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## Troublehalf

I like Blood Angels, but they really need to sort them out.

1. Glaive Encarmines need to be better than Power Fists. They're Two-Handed, but you've got a wrist bolter weapon anyway... But Power Fists are Power Fists. So, Sanguinary Guard need a major buff.

2. They could really do with another unique flamer/melta weapon. Perhaps a modified Thunder Cannon, which fires some sort of Promethium bombs at the target, or something.

3. Tycho needs to be removed. He's dead in the fluff and it makes NO SENSE having him in a book. I want to 'pretend' that I'm fighting at the current time in 40k.... Tycho is dead and thus is pointless

Lots of other problems.


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## maximus2467

REMOVE TYCHO?!?!? WTF?!? Screw the fluff it's a game! He's cracking! If they're going to change characters they should change Dante. In his current guise he strikes last, just because he's modelled with an axe? He should've able to carve a big "D" in his opponents chest before the enemy even realises he's there. I agree glaive encarmines are poor in the current rules, if they're two handed this denying them +1 to attack for an add ccw they should at least add +1 st to represent the sang guard using his full strength to smite his foe


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## ntaw

Troublehalf said:


> Glaive Encarmines need to be better than Power Fists.


This confuses me. In what way would you make them 'better' than Power Fists?



Troublehalf said:


> They could really do with another unique flamer/melta weapon. Perhaps a modified Thunder Cannon, which fires some sort of Promethium bombs at the target, or something.


Adding a Melta-type turret option for the Baal would go a looooong way. The strained relationship with the Mechanicum would mean that they aren't hauling out Thunderfire-Esque guns any time soon, I'd think. Not that I'm any kind of professional on the background of the army, I just really like playing them.



Troublehalf said:


> Tycho needs to be removed.


Preach it! :drinks:

...though I may add 'and replaced with another new Character, whether for BA or one of their Successors'.



maximus2467 said:


> In his current guise he strikes last


But also has a 2+/4++ and I6 for Sweeping Advances. Throw in no Deep Strike scatter and Hit and Run and he's still pretty solid. I wonder how 5th edition Dante will fare in 7th edition 40k?



maximus2467 said:


> if they're two handed this denying them +1 to attack for an add ccw they should at least add +1 st to represent the sang guard using his full strength to smite his foe


This I like, though even if they were one handed weapons they'd still lose the +1 attack based on the Angelus Boltgun being Assault. It would, however, mean that when you spend the points to give them a Pistol you would get both CC and shooting benefits from those points. Making Glaives more like Relic Blades would be awesome. Master-Crafter and +1 Strength compared to +2 Strength seems comparable to me, but I'm not busting out the calculator to find out.


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## Troublehalf

maximus2467 said:


> REMOVE TYCHO?!?!? WTF?!? Screw the fluff it's a game! I agree glaive encarmines are poor in the current rules, if they're two handed this denying them +1 to attack for an add ccw they should at least add +1 st to represent the sang guard using his full strength to smite his foe


I get it's a game, but when I'm playing, I like to pretend I'm actually there, the Commander, not playing a Battle of Old, but actually Battling now in what could be a pivitoal battle of the age. Yet if Tycho suddenly runs past me screaming I know that it is a Battle of Old and not 'right now'. I feel the same way about the Carstiens in WHFB (bar Manfred who is alive, as opposed to dead... well, dead-dead, not Vampire dead). I would love a shooty marine... Or maybe Moriar The Chosen returns...... Or perhaps a Librarian Dreadnought from a Successor Chapter, a Chief Librarian put into one, would be brilliant.




ntaw said:


> This confuses me. In what way would you make them 'better' than Power Fists?


With a special attack rule of:

One-Handed Mode: Wielding the Glaive Encarmine in one hand, the Sanguinary Guard is able to enjoy and employ superior movement with his jet-pack and with his blows: Gains +1A and 5++ until end of the turn.

Two-Handed Mode: Wielding the Glaive Encarmine in both hands, the Sanguinary Guard is able to focus his might into each blow, causing maximum damage at the price of speed: x2S, Rending, Shred, -1A (To minimum of 1)





ntaw said:


> Adding a Melta-type turret option for the Baal would go a looooong way. The strained relationship with the Mechanicum would mean that they aren't hauling out Thunderfire-Esque guns any time soon, I'd think. Not that I'm any kind of professional on the background of the army, I just really like playing them.


Exactly. While they will send weapons, supplies and materials to them, parts of the Mechanicum will want the Baal Pattern STC's (Or the knowledge to make it's systems, anyway). This could, I think, lead to the Blood Angels applying the systems and technology involved in making Baal Pattern Predators on other vehicles/systems, thus modifying them to a different role and purpose.

The Melta Weapon, I'm not too sure what current ones BA have which are unique, but I think it could be great for the Thunderfire Cannon as I said:

The Thunderfire Cannon has been modified to no longer fire then default and standard shells provided by the Mechanicum. This changes the fire support role of the Thunderfire Cannon into a powerful offensive and defensive weapon, suitable for wiping out targets in groups, rather than weakening them for other aspects of the Adeptus Astartes to finish off.

Baal Thunderfire Cannon Promithium Mode:
(Standard) 30", S5, 'Promeithium Sun Spots x3' - Place the Blast Marker (3") anywhere up to 30" away from the Baal Thunderfire Cannon (BTC). Leave this in place and take the Flamer template and place it so it's either within the Blast Marker (3") or on the edge. Roll for each template (x3) separately.
(Extra Power) Same, but x4 templates.
(Overcharge) 40", S6, x5 Templates but has a form of Extreme Gets Hot. Perhaps double wounds.

Baal Thunderfire Cannon Melta Mode
(Standard) 30", S8, Armourbane, Melta "Melta Sun Spots x3" - Place the Blast Marker (3") anywhere up to 30" away from the BTC. Each Blast Marker must touch the other ones.
(Extra Power)Same but x4 Templates
(Overcharge) 40", S8, Armourbane, Melta, Rending, x5 Templates but has a form of Extreme Gets Hot!





ntaw said:


> Preach it! :drinks:
> 
> ...though I may add 'and replaced with another new Character, whether for BA or one of their Successors'.


Thank you. At least somebody gets my point. I think it's stupid having dead characters in the book. I want to lead all the name characters to glory, not be thinking "Yeah, this is an epic battle, but Tycho is is in it, so it's during X period"


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## ntaw

Troublehalf said:


> I think it's stupid having dead characters in the book.


They can always make a Dataslate for him to update the golden/DC version into 7th if there's some reason to.

Not that there is.


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## Jacobite

Troublehalf said:


> 3. Tycho needs to be removed. He's dead in the fluff and it makes NO SENSE having him in a book. I want to 'pretend' that I'm fighting at the current time in 40k.... Tycho is dead and thus is pointless


.... so you don't use him... It's not like he's a compulsory choice for BA's and if somebody else wants to use him either say no I don't want to play against him or just pretend it is some other character. Other people may want to recreate the 3rd War for Armageddon and want to use him. 

(Also I really wouldn't recommend you looking at the FW website after all they have an entire range of minis set 10,000 years before the current era which are actually some of the most awesome minis GW has ever put out but I fear they may give you an embolism, plus there is the Badab War stuff. Seriously don't go there, I fear for your health if you do.)


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## Nacho libre

Oh blood angel update where are you?. :cray:


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## Nordicus

Nacho libre said:


> Oh blood angel update where are you?.


In the queue over there, just behind the Ork update.


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## Nacho libre

Nordicus said:


> In the queue over there, just behind the Ork update.


Aww bugger.


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## Vaz

Not being funny, I'd rather have Phil Kelly write the codex than play with Troublehalf's ideas.


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## Nacho libre

Vaz said:


> Not being funny, I'd rather have Phil Kelly write the codex than play with Troublehalf's ideas.


Phil Kelly ain't the worst. The csm codex was bad but it can still do "something" on the table.


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## Troublehalf

Jacobite said:


> (Also I really wouldn't recommend you looking at the FW website after all they have an entire range of minis set 10,000 years before the current era which are actually some of the most awesome minis GW has ever put out but I fear they may give you an embolism, plus there is the Badab War stuff. Seriously don't go there, I fear for your health if you do.)


FW is for specialist models/games. As in, the Badab War is a specific campaign in a specific series of books, Imperial Armour. Therefore, it's perfectly fine to add characters in the game who die at some point, since each Imperial Armour book is based around a, guess what, specific campaign. Blood Angels codex isn't set around Armageddon.

Furthermore, 30k is just the same. It's set 10,000 years before and is different to 40k. You KNOW you're recreating events. I'm not pretending the Legion I'm playing is actually stomping around the world right now.

I'm perfectly fine with him being part of Armageddon, cause, guess what, that's been put in a fucking separate book as well. Oh, and look at that, Herman von Strab was put in the Armageddon HQ section in Apocalypse book, NOT IN THE IMPERIAL GUARD CODEX.


So, since your reading comprehension is lacking, I'll spell it out for you as simply as possible. If you want to specifically recreate the Armageddon camapaign, do so, there are several books available to help you do this, with specific rules and ideas and, guess what, Armageddon War specific characters. The Codexes are supposed to be about the Chapter as of 'now' not 'as of 2nd War for Armageddon'. Furthermore, it's supposed to be a list of the chapters units and their greatest heroes who are actually doing stuff, not being dead decades ago.

So, do you get it now? He's a waste of a character slot. If you want to play with him and recreate battles, fine, do it, I don't give a shit, but putting him specifically in a book when you could easily create another character (who is alive) or bring back one from the past (Moriar the Chosen for example) would be better than somebody who has no further part to play in the events of the Chapter.

You really seemed to be ignoring the fact I was describing what should happen in their 6th (but in reality, 7th) edition codex, not what already exists. People's 'fun' (what a horrible buzzword fun is, I must conform to what everybody else wants!) can be ruined simply because somebody plays Tycho instead of somebody else. Say you're playing as Chaos Chapter who have been unleashed to cause destruction in systems surrounding the Cadian Gate in an effort to divert or hold up vital supplies or manpower, this is happening around 40.999, you're playing against Blood Angels, and bam, some guy plays Tycho. You're immediately transported back in time to before he was dead (ignoring the fact if it's the Black Rage version, which he only became DURING the war itself) and thus screwing up your planned story.

Cause guess what? Some people like pretending they're trying to hold back the vanguard of the 13th Crusade, just as much as some people enjoy recreating the War for Armageddon. But playing dead characters outside specific settings cause those people to have their fun reduced.

If you can't see why he's and every other dead character is pointless in a codex, then I cannot help you. Dataslates exist for a reason, to give specific characters a presence on the table-top for those who want to fight specific scenarios.

Furthermore, if you could be so kind as to point out any other fully dead characters who are still in their main codex in 40k, I'd appreciate it. Seeing as how I'd want to avoid dying by having an opinion different to yours.


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## Nacho libre

Troublehalf said:


> FW is for specialist models/games. As in, the Badab War is a specific campaign in a specific series of books, Imperial Armour. Therefore, it's perfectly fine to add characters in the game who die at some point, since each Imperial Armour book is based around a, guess what, specific campaign. Blood Angels codex isn't set around Armageddon.
> 
> Furthermore, 30k is just the same. It's set 10,000 years before and is different to 40k. You KNOW you're recreating events. I'm not pretending the Legion I'm playing is actually stomping around the world right now.
> 
> I'm perfectly fine with him being part of Armageddon, cause, guess what, that's been put in a fucking separate book as well. Oh, and look at that, Herman von Strab was put in the Armageddon HQ section in Apocalypse book, NOT IN THE IMPERIAL GUARD CODEX.
> 
> 
> So, since your reading comprehension is lacking, I'll spell it out for you as simply as possible. If you want to specifically recreate the Armageddon camapaign, do so, there are several books available to help you do this, with specific rules and ideas and, guess what, Armageddon War specific characters. The Codexes are supposed to be about the Chapter as of 'now' not 'as of 2nd War for Armageddon'. Furthermore, it's supposed to be a list of the chapters units and their greatest heroes who are actually doing stuff, not being dead decades ago.
> 
> So, do you get it now? He's a waste of a character slot. If you want to play with him and recreate battles, fine, do it, I don't give a shit, but putting him specifically in a book when you could easily create another character (who is alive) or bring back one from the past (Moriar the Chosen for example) would be better than somebody who has no further part to play in the events of the Chapter.
> 
> You really seemed to be ignoring the fact I was describing what should happen in their 6th (but in reality, 7th) edition codex, not what already exists. People's 'fun' (what a horrible buzzword fun is, I must conform to what everybody else wants!) can be ruined simply because somebody plays Tycho instead of somebody else. Say you're playing as Chaos Chapter who have been unleashed to cause destruction in systems surrounding the Cadian Gate in an effort to divert or hold up vital supplies or manpower, this is happening around 40.999, you're playing against Blood Angels, and bam, some guy plays Tycho. You're immediately transported back in time to before he was dead (ignoring the fact if it's the Black Rage version, which he only became DURING the war itself) and thus screwing up your planned story.
> 
> Cause guess what? Some people like pretending they're trying to hold back the vanguard of the 13th Crusade, just as much as some people enjoy recreating the War for Armageddon. But playing dead characters outside specific settings cause those people to have their fun reduced.
> 
> If you can't see why he's and every other dead character is pointless in a codex, then I cannot help you. Dataslates exist for a reason, to give specific characters a presence on the table-top for those who want to fight specific scenarios.
> 
> Furthermore, if you could be so kind as to point out any other fully dead characters who are still in their main codex in 40k, I'd appreciate it. Seeing as how I'd want to avoid dying by having an opinion different to yours.


C'mon everyone, let's all be friends.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Troublehalf said:


> waaah


calm down


----------



## Jacobite

Troublehalf said:


> FW is for specialist models/games. That in the majority of cases slot right into "normal" 40k perfectly well.
> 
> As in, the Badab War is a specific campaign in a specific series of books, Imperial Armour. Therefore, it's perfectly fine to add characters in the game who die at some point, since each Imperial Armour book is based around a, guess what, specific campaign. They also fit in before hand and in some cases they also survive it. Blood Angels codex isn't set around Armageddon. Nope but they are present there so why shouldn't they include a specific unit that fought there amongst other places? Do you only play Grey Knights against Deamons? Space Marines against enemies of the Imperium?
> 
> Furthermore, 30k is just the same. It's set 10,000 years before and is different to 40k. You KNOW you're recreating events. I'm not pretending the Legion I'm playing is actually stomping around the world right now. No but you could use that rule set to represent a formation in 40k. Some people feel that the HH rules are actually a more accurate fit to the a SM chapter than the SM Codex. @Vaz for example.
> 
> I'm perfectly fine with him being part of Armageddon, cause, guess what, that's been put in a fucking separate book as well. Oh, and look at that, Herman von Strab was put in the Armageddon HQ section in Apocalypse book, NOT IN THE IMPERIAL GUARD CODEX. That book is quite a few editions old. Did Herman von Strab fight anywhere else? No, he did not. Tycho did.
> 
> So, since your reading comprehension is lacking, I'll spell it out for you as simply as possible. If you want to specifically recreate the Armageddon camapaign, do so, there are several books available to help you do this, with specific rules and ideas and, guess what, Armageddon War specific characters. The Codexes are supposed to be about the Chapter as of 'now' not 'as of 2nd War for Armageddon'. Furthermore, it's supposed to be a list of the chapters units and their greatest heroes who are actually doing stuff, not being dead decades ago. That's how you see them, I, like many others see them as a list of units that the Chapter has used over the last 10,000 years and you can choose to use what you like from it. You can theme your list to your choices.
> 
> So, do you get it now? He's a waste of a character slot. Because there is only a set amount of character slots? If you want to play with him and recreate battles, fine, do it, I don't give a shit, Given your rather strong reaction I'm calling bullshit on that one. but putting him specifically in a book when you could easily create another character (who is alive) or bring back one from the past (Moriar the Chosen for example) would be better than somebody who has no further part to play in the events of the Chapter. For you. Not necessarily for anybody else.
> 
> You really seemed to be ignoring the fact I was describing what should happen in their 6th (but in reality, 7th) edition codex, not what already exists. People's 'fun' (what a horrible buzzword fun is, I must conform to what everybody else wants!) can be ruined simply because somebody plays Tycho instead of somebody else. Yes heaven forbid you personally should have conform to what everybody else wants, it would be so much easier if every other plater all just did what you Troublehalf wanted! Again I'm not saying you HAVE to play with him or play against him. The opposing player puts him down on the table you simply you don't want to play against him or you can pretend that mini represents something else. That's YOUR choice.  Say you're playing as Chaos Chapter who have been unleashed to cause destruction in systems surrounding the Cadian Gate in an effort to divert or hold up vital supplies or manpower, this is happening around 40.999, you're playing against Blood Angels, and bam, some guy plays Tycho. You're immediately transported back in time to before he was dead (ignoring the fact if it's the Black Rage version, which he only became DURING the war itself) and thus screwing up your planned story. Or you could simply ask them not to play him? Would you also be throwing a massive tantrum if that same Chaos Chapter you described was forced to face Farsight and his Enclaves who are nowhere near the Cadian Gate? Or one of the 6th BA Companies not deployed to fight off the 13th Black Crusade? Or how about some Nids painted up like Hive Fleet Behemoth? (which was destroyed between 745.M41 and 746.M41 near Ultramar)? Going to go all NATO then as well?
> 
> Cause guess what? Some people like pretending they're trying to hold back the vanguard of the 13th Crusade, just as much as some people enjoy recreating the War for Armageddon. But playing dead characters outside specific settings cause those people to have their fun reduced. And ditto the other way round, what makes your view anymore valid than mine? Simply having that entry in the codex annoys you? There are lots of things that annoy me in the background and in the codexs for various reasons? Know what I do? I ignore the vast majority of them in my own forces and if I do end up facing them across the table... I get over it and realise that I have no absolute right to forbid my opponent from playing them and if it bothers me that much... I can always not play them. If that's in a tournament setting then that's a choice you have to make. If you want to discuss fluff then sure I'll get involved but as we all know Fluff "facts" have fuck all relevance when it comes to the TT. If they did then the way the game is played would be VERY different.
> 
> If you can't see why he's and every other dead character is pointless in a codex, then I cannot help you. Dataslates exist for a reason, to give specific characters a presence on the table-top for those who want to fight specific scenarios. Dataslates exist for many reasons, not just that one.
> 
> Furthermore, if you could be so kind as to point out any other fully dead characters who are still in their main codex in 40k, I'd appreciate it. Seeing as how I'd want to avoid dying by having an opinion different to yours. Apart from Tycho? None off the top of my head since they retconned Eldrad's death out of the timeline in the new dex. Doesn't mean that he should go too though, given how GW's move is to try and make as much stuff inclusive as possible now Tycho being alive is pretty far down on my list of things to have to wrap my head around, why that IG player has an allied detachment of Orks and Necrons in his Unbound army list and how he got access to 3 Baneblades one of which is being crewed by Orks and the tech priest he has hasn't died of rage is going to be harder to make sense off. However by your same logic Hive Fleet Behemouth shouldn't be included in the current Nid dex, nor should Draigo be allowed to fight anybody other than Deamons (or indeed the entire GK chapter). Quite a simple fix for that, don't play me.


I'll just go back to painting my minis however the fuck I want, play with people who feel the same way I do and you can too ok buttercup. I believe the game is about compromise so that both players have a good time. You may feel differently. In my opinion (and remember it's just my opinion I'm not forcing you to "conform" to it) I'd be surprised if you can find anybody who would want to play you, you sound like a joy to be around and an all round stable individual. Have a nice day.


----------



## Nacho libre

Jacobite said:


> I'll just go back to painting my minis however the fuck I want, play with people who feel the same way I do and you can too ok buttercup. I believe the game is about compromise so that both players have a good time. You may feel differently. In my opinion (and remember it's just my opinion I'm not forcing you to "conform" to it) I'd be surprised if you can find anybody who would want to play you, you sound like a joy to be around and an all round stable individual. Have a nice day.


Holla.


----------



## DeathGlam

Mental note, don't ever try to play Troublehalf with my new Astral Claws army.  

Joking aside, i don't get the hatred for having dead characters in the codex, i think it makes the stories more interesting, in a similar way to why i have chosen Astral Claws, i can still write my own fluff about them but i like the idea of playing a loyalist chapter that is soon to have a tragic end.


----------



## ntaw

Tycho wouldn't be the first character dropped from any Codex, my main interest is in seeing someone _else_ come to the fore as a hero of the Blood Angels. Or still include him, but add someone current or from another Successor Chapter. 

Hell, maybe they could just sweep Astorath under the rug instead if there's some unknown number of Unique Characters that can be in a Dex. That dude showed up out of nowhere when I got back into the hobby it seemed, the only DC special characters when I was young were Moriar and Lemartez and it seemed like Lemartez had things on lockdown for taking care of those who fell to the Black Rage.....or so my vague memories from when I was 8-11 put forth. It's been a while.

If there was a shakeup in the Character section of the dex, is it just a slight rules adjustment that everyone wants to see or does anyone else want to see and actual shift in what named characters are available?


----------



## maximus2467

I honestly can't believe the rant I just read. Isn't this just a game? Don't get me wrong I started playing as soon as gw opened in hull circa 1990 and haven't stopped since, I must've spent easily over 5 grand on this game over the years if not 10. And it's taken a vast time toll on my life (Christ knows how I've managed to get married.....TWICE) but I can't see how anyone would get so worked up over the fact that one of the characters in the game codex dies in a book written by someone completely different. If you want to read the books then fine, just chill out man, it's a game

If you want to throw your toys out of the pram over anything it should be LOW models allowed in 40k, that's messed up. But it's the rules now so I have to just suck it up and play a boring game against a waac player who can't put a decent army list together


----------



## Creon

First off, Tycho isn't the only "dead" character in the Codex series. There's Eldrad, for one. He's quite a bit dead. But, let's try to calm down. I would enjoy Tycho inthe next Codex cause it would be fun for me. If he's not there? I don't think I'd be upset.


----------



## Jacobite

Nacho libre said:


> Holla.


Ironic that!



ntaw said:


> Hell, maybe they could just sweep Astorath under the rug instead if there's some unknown number of Unique Characters that can be in a Dex. That dude showed up out of nowhere when I got back into the hobby it seemed, the only DC special characters when I was young were Moriar and Lemartez and it seemed like Lemartez had things on lockdown for taking care of those who fell to the Black Rage.....or so my vague memories from when I was 8-11 put forth. It's been a while.


I must say I also was a little miffed when the current dex dropped and Lemartes (who had always been the DC SC) got shunted back to be a supporting player and the Chaplin with a big axe version of Meph was released (lets face it that's what the mini is) got the main slot, he sort of came out of nowhere and wasn't really needed in my opinion.



Creon said:


> First off, Tycho isn't the only "dead" character in the Codex series. There's Eldrad, for one.


Sadly as of the 6th edition Eldar dex he is still alive, it's part of the whole retconning they did so that the 13th Crusade is about to happen rather than just has like it was in some 5th edition Codex's after the global campaign, I know which one I prefer. Guess we all know how it ends for him though.


----------



## Troublehalf

Nacho libre said:


> C'mon everyone, let's all be friends.


I have no problem being friends, I was having a swell time discussing with people my opinion Tycho should be dropped from the codex and replaced with with somebody else. Then Jacobite comes in with an aggressive and sarcastic remark about the fact the specialist arm of FW happens to do specific parts of the 40k (and 30k) universe. He didn't need to do it, he didn't need to say it, it was done solely for the purpose of provocation.



Bindi Baji said:


> calm down


I'm perfectly calm, I might be exasperated, but I'm by no means angry.



Jacobite said:


> I'll just go back to painting my minis however the fuck I want, play with people who feel the same way I do and you can too ok buttercup. I believe the game is about compromise so that both players have a good time. You may feel differently. In my opinion (and remember it's just my opinion I'm not forcing you to "conform" to it) I'd be surprised if you can find anybody who would want to play you, you sound like a joy to be around and an all round stable individual. Have a nice day.



And you're welcome to do that. The game is about compromise, and I would set up before hand if somebody was planning to run Tycho so we could both benefit from the story aspect. 

Thanks for the personal attack. 



DeathGlam said:


> Mental note, don't ever try to play Troublehalf with my new Astral Claws army.
> 
> Joking aside, i don't get the hatred for having dead characters in the codex, i think it makes the stories more interesting, in a similar way to why i have chosen Astral Claws, i can still write my own fluff about them but i like the idea of playing a loyalist chapter that is soon to have a tragic end.



It was my personal opinion and was just a discussion on the potentially ability to include somebody else who is alive and kicking. Jacobite had no reason to come in and start mentioning that FW does 30k products, there was no benefit from doing that other than to get me to reply. Yes, he baited me hook-line and sinker.

You can play Astral Claws and enjoy them as a Loyalist Chapter now or before the Wars, nothing is stopping you. In fact, there are TWO books dedicated to them by Forge World to help you just do that. However, in the limited space codexes, returning a character who is dead in the fluff back to the book seems counter-productive in my opinion, as you could put somebody new in, whilst still allowing people who want to play Tycho, you know, play him, as a stat and point line will already exist for you to use. That's ignoring the fact GW now sells dataslates.



ntaw said:


> Tycho wouldn't be the first character dropped from any Codex, my main interest is in seeing someone _else_ come to the fore as a hero of the Blood Angels. Or still include him, but add someone current or from another Successor Chapter.
> 
> Hell, maybe they could just sweep Astorath under the rug instead if there's some unknown number of Unique Characters that can be in a Dex. That dude showed up out of nowhere when I got back into the hobby it seemed, the only DC special characters when I was young were Moriar and Lemartez and it seemed like Lemartez had things on lockdown for taking care of those who fell to the Black Rage.....or so my vague memories from when I was 8-11 put forth. It's been a while.
> 
> If there was a shakeup in the Character section of the dex, is it just a slight rules adjustment that everyone wants to see or does anyone else want to see and actual shift in what named characters are available?



The power of posts. You were not attacked for having this view because you're on much more than I, ntaw. Otherwise, Jacobite would have included you in his rant about FW.



maximus2467 said:


> I honestly can't believe the rant I just read. Isn't this just a game? but I can't see how anyone would get so worked up over the fact that one of the characters in the game codex dies in a book written by someone completely different. If you want to read the books then fine, just chill out man, it's a game


I was perfectly calm, the wonders of the internet allow no way to imply emotion into something. If everybody applied Poe's Law, shit like this wouldn't happen. I was discussing with ntaw the idea of Tycho being dropped cause he's dead in the lore and made a dataslate or put inside the new Armageddon bits which are supposed to be coming, rather than taking up a slot in a codex.



Creon said:


> First off, Tycho isn't the only "dead" character in the Codex series. There's Eldrad, for one. He's quite a bit dead. But, let's try to calm down. I would enjoy Tycho inthe next Codex cause it would be fun for me. If he's not there? I don't think I'd be upset.



Eldrad isn't quite a bit dead, he's very much alive. His death was retconned by GW. He's in the 6th Edition Eldar codex and has survived due to his will to go on. So, no, he's not dead.

There is nothing stopping you playing with him if he's not there, but there is something stopping you playing with somebody who has never existed. If Tycho is there, he's taking up a slot which somebody else could take. If you want to continue playing Tycho (assuming he isn't there) then you can, as he's rules will still exist in a format for ease of play, but a brand new character (or an ancient character) will not be able to exist without having a stat line in a book.



Don't need to reply back.


----------



## Nacho libre

Im just going to back out of this and find a less ranty thread.

Peaceeee.


----------



## Jacobite

Nacho libre said:


> Im just going to back out of this and find a less ranty thread.


+1 to that.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Is it any wonder that gamers have such a bad reputation?


----------



## Nacho libre

Bindi Baji said:


> Is it any wonder that gamers have such a bad reputation?


A question that i will always ask myself?.:cray:


----------



## InkedDnA

This is why...


----------



## Tawa

Play nice


----------



## scscofield

No shit, chill the fuck out. This is a thread about make believe crap designed to sell overpriced plastic army men.


----------



## Vaz

maximus2467 said:


> I honestly can't believe the rant I just read. Isn't this just a game? Don't get me wrong I started playing as soon as gw opened in hull circa 1990 and haven't stopped since, I must've spent easily over 5 grand on this game over the years if not 10. And it's taken a vast time toll on my life (Christ knows how I've managed to get married.....TWICE) but I can't see how anyone would get so worked up over the fact that one of the characters in the game codex dies in a book written by someone completely different. If you want to read the books then fine, just chill out man, it's a game
> 
> If you want to throw your toys out of the pram over anything it should be LOW models allowed in 40k, that's messed up. But it's the rules now so I have to just suck it up and play a boring game against a waac player who can't put a decent army list together


Once was bad enough, getting married twice was just careless. If you weren't issued it, you didn't need it.


----------



## Einherjar667

Plague zombies are dead. And arguably, plague marines.


----------



## nowherewefeartotread

Hey guys, to get this thread back on topic....

I've ran Blood Angels since I started playing 40K over 15 years ago and some of the rumours we've heard sound great. I agree the Sanguinary Guard need a revamp to make them cost effective, the 6th Ed rules hit them quite hard and I'd give my left nut for the return of good old 3rd Ed Rhino Rush! Make those Lucifer pattern engines earn their points!

The return of Moriar the Chosen would be sweet, I'd love to see a dataslate for a Death Company Dreadnought formation led by Moriar for some crazy special rules.

With the major increase in the availability of AP2 weapons in 6th Ed Codices I would like to be able to put Artificer Armour on a Captain, Librarian etc.

Not sure how they are going to portray Blood Brothers if that rumour is true, in a lot of the fluff when a Battle Brother is in the grip of the Black Rage he cannot be brought back from it (Even Sanguinius offed one of his sons in Fear to Tread as he had it!) apart from old Mephy of course because he's just a general badass. :grin:

A Melta Baal sounds like a likely upgrade or possibly a Grav Gun variant? Baal Predators are good now but any upgrade to give it Anti Tank capability would pretty much make them an Auto-Include in my opinion. Oh and I really hope they give us Centurions, stick a priest in with them and suddenly bam..... you need a S10 weapon to deny them FNP in the current rules anyway.

I'm quite new here so go easy on me guys! Penny for your thoughts?

EDIT: Just realised I meant to say low AP weapons in 6th Ed as Artificer Armour wouldn't help against AP2! :wink:


----------



## maximus2467

I know I'm wish listing here but I'd love to see something like a blood knight? Akin to a dread knight but for BA. That would be super


----------



## ntaw

nowherewefeartotread said:


> The return of Moriar the Chosen would be sweet, I'd love to see a dataslate for a Death Company Dreadnought formation led by Moriar for some crazy special rules.


....what if they wrote Lemartez into a Dreadnought body and had him lead the formation? I mean, they have Astorath anyway now.



nowherewefeartotread said:


> Not sure how they are going to portray Blood Brothers if that rumour is true


I feel like after dealing with it for centuries, maybe they have figured out how Lemartez is "living" with it and other marines have the same penchant for will power. Imagine taking a unit of modified Lemartez's. That's somewhere around the premise I would expect, but it's a wild guess for sure.

I'm not sure that we'll be seeing much more in the way of new armour types or anything like that due to the strained ties between the Mechanicum and Baal, but who knows?


----------



## nowherewefeartotread

ntaw said:


> I feel like after dealing with it for centuries, maybe they have figured out how Lemartez is "living" with it and other marines have the same penchant for will power. Imagine taking a unit of modified Lemartez's. That's somewhere around the premise I would expect, but it's a wild guess for sure.


We'd need a whole lot of stasis tubes in that case :grin: They roll with the fluff saying Lemartes is kept in stasis between battles so anything is possible, they would end up being an amped vanguard veteran squad as Zion says is the first post. I know it's all speculation but hey, it's fun to speculate!

NTAW Makes a good point about the strained relationship with the Mechanicum but if they continue the fluff from the 5th Ed Codex then the Blood Angels recently returned a Titan to the Mechanicum so maybe that will buy them some forgiveness after the hording of the Baal Predator designs for all these centuries?


----------



## Bindi Baji

maximus2467 said:


> I know I'm wish listing here but I'd love to see something like a blood knight? Akin to a dread knight but for BA. That would be super


with allies, unbound and creative thinking i'm sure there is some way you can do that now


----------



## maximus2467

Creative thinking? Pah! I just do what gw tells me.

'Yes sir mr kirby sir, please take my money, my daughter doesn't need food'


----------



## The 13th

We've got news rumours ... 

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/07/40k-rumors-blood-angels.html?m=1 

Most notable Mephiston Lord of War


----------



## ntaw

Just to C/P this into the thread for people on their phones not clicking links, from BoLS:



> Rules:
> Mephiston: Lord of War.
> Blood Angels: Gain access to the new Codex SM flyers, but not the tanks.
> 
> Minis:
> New "Sanguinary" unit in Terminator armor
> Clam pack plastic Sanguinary Priest
> New Wheeled vehicle
> "Classic Character" gets a resculpt (contrary chatter split between Mephiston/Tycho)
> 
> Rumor reliability: Medium-Low, coming from both known and unknown sources
> 
> There is still contradictory chatter on when the Blood Angels arrive with more saying they are coming this year in-between Space Wolves and Dark Eldar.


If they finally come out with a malleable Priest model I will likely ignore it no matter how good it looks. The reason? It'll likely put my home made version in its place 

'Sanguinary' unit in Terminator armour...I'd settle on a Blood Angel terminator pack akin to the Wolves or Deathwing level of sculpting. I'm currently getting the Space Hulk ones just to convert into Assault Terminators as there's no reason in my mind Death Company should look cooler than the 1st company in their space vampire regalia.

New wheeled vehicle could be fun. Fingers crossed it's something that's Open Topped and thus Assault marines can get back to assaulting out of vehicles (since LR's are a bit costly in games under 2k).

I could use some red Stormtalons, but I really don't care if we get that SM flier as it's glorious to ally in Imperial Fists for their Tactical squad prowess (taking it from the SoT supplement is even more awesome for Bolter Drill) and you can stack up Combined Arms Detachments so you aren't limited to the one FA slot in the Allied Detachment any more.

Mephiston as a Lord of War. This I must see, for I am trying to hold back succumbing to my own Black Rage at BAs _not being able to generate Pyromancy powers_. Seriously, look at the table then look at Mephiston and our Libbynaught. It's vexing.

...wanna trade for Divination, Codex: Space Marines?


----------



## nowherewefeartotread

ntaw said:


> 'Sanguinary' unit in Terminator armour...I'd settle on a Blood Angel terminator pack akin to the Wolves or Deathwing level of sculpting. I'm currently getting the Space Hulk ones just to convert into Assault Terminators as there's no reason in my mind Death Company should look cooler than the 1st company in their space vampire regalia.


Unfortunately I don't see us getting one NTAW..... Purely because those Space Hulk 2009 casts are still floating around, maybe another few editions down the road we will see them? I have the full set and used them as shooty Termies apart from Gideon and Claudio who are in an assault Termie squad with standard GW Termies kitted out with FW bits and other BA bits from other kits.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Sanguinary Priest in Termie armour come out. I kit bashed one from a standard Termie and the GK Apothacary set but a well cast one with BA armour would be pretty sweet.

Mephiston as a Lord of War is interesting but you can't have him running as a LOW with no Invulnerable save, maybe see an update to his statline or wargear to coincide with his new FOC slot?

Still feel robbed that the Wolves got the Sanctus Reach release too! :grin:


----------



## ntaw

nowherewefeartotread said:


> Unfortunately I don't see us getting one NTAW


You must _believe_ my friend! Whether it's in getting re-casts from China and having your way with them or FW coming out with more than just shoulder pads: it's coming :laugh:



nowherewefeartotread said:


> Mephiston as a Lord of War is interesting but you can't have him running as a LOW with no Invulnerable save


Him merely having access to Pyromancy would almost guarantee him either a 4+ invulnerable or cover save as they are the 1 and 2 spots on that table. Not to mention all the other fun stuff available from that discipline....

That being said I'm always down for something new.


----------



## mrknify

Well..... shocking news... see for your self.









This is not official, I am in no way endorsed on this from anyone. This image may have been altered and contains imagery and IP that belongs to The Black Library, Citadel Miniatures, possibly Forge World.


----------



## mayegelt

OMG that looks so official! BPOOC ANGEFS!!!


----------



## ntaw

pfft, whatever. Totally legit release!


----------



## mrknify

At this point grey knights at just less then 3 years old is getting replaced before Blood Angels that is over 4 years old. I call shenanigans.


----------



## scscofield

You guys need to Sparkle harder.


----------



## ntaw

mrknify said:


> At this point grey knights at just less then 3 years old is getting replaced before Blood Angels that is over 4 years old. I call shenanigans.


I ask for proof aside from that GK are the next featured race in the current GW Campaign that saw the release of the Orks and Space Wolves Codices.



scscofield said:


> You guys need to Sparkle harder.


hhhrrrrgnnn.....gnnnnyynyyyyuh.....is it working??!?!


----------



## mrknify

Proof? Matthew Ward.

Good enough.
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292163-grey-knights-7e-codex-rumor/


----------



## ntaw

I guess it makes sense that they would be releasing updated rules for every army featured in Sanctus Reach as it's the first campaign of 7th. Bet they'll update the rules for either Necrons or Dark Eldar first to maintain some semblance of Imperium/Xenos alternation to boot.


----------



## mrknify

ntaw said:


> I guess it makes sense that they would be releasing updated rules for every army featured in Sanctus Reach as it's the first campaign of 7th. Bet they'll update the rules for either Necrons or Dark Eldar first to maintain some semblance of Imperium/Xenos alternation to boot.


Good guy bad guy....

Your logic makes sense, therefore you suck. No BA codex till 8th ed... so next year lol.


----------



## ntaw

mrknify said:


> Your logic makes sense, therefore you suck.


It's a sad day


----------



## mrknify

ntaw said:


> It's a sad day


Lol. At least I got me orks. And my CSM CD army. Unfortunate about the heldrake nerf, not going to say it was not needed though.

Ps you dont suck, but it is a sad day 


This will make it more happy!


----------



## mrknify

> Thank you for your reply. I do not have access to Games Workshop's Codex release schedule, but I am sure that the wait will not be too long.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> -----------(name expunged)
> 
> Black Library Customer Services
> Working Hours: Monday to Friday 9.00am to 5.30pm GMT


Well that's what I got In an email about Blood Angels.


----------



## ntaw

Yeah, but with 4 more Codices to be updated and the breakneck speed they have been working at....duh :biggrin:

Finely painted Sanguinor there, am I right in seeing yellow to highlight the gold?


----------



## mrknify

Yes it is Yellow, a non-metallic metallic paint scheme.
I have a few spots to touch up and add colour too (blood tears, brass trim)

And I must get off my butt and base it. I have been procrastinating on that for a while, I will be doing a higher base and pinning him to be floating higher over the debris.


----------



## Zion

A little revival of this thread time. From BoLS:



> via Steve the Warboss 9-26-2014
> 
> - The Sons of Sanguinius will come soon after Endtimes Book 2.
> - GW will use this release slot to replace older Space Marine Plastic sprues.
> - 4-5 week are realistic.


And an older rumor:



> Blood Angels Rumorwave #1 7-14-2014
> 
> 
> Rules:
> Mephiston: Lord of War.
> Blood Angels: Gain access to the new Codex SM flyers, but not the tanks.
> 
> Minis:
> New "Sanguinary" unit in Terminator armor
> Clam pack plastic Sanguinary Priest
> New Wheeled vehicle
> "Classic Character" gets a resculpt (contrary chatter split between Mephiston/Tycho)
> 
> Rumor reliability: Medium-Low, coming from both known and unknown sources


----------



## ntaw

So, basically what was posted already as far as rumours :laugh:

It would be nice to see a re-pack of Assault Marines in the same way C:SM saw the release of the new Tactical box.


----------



## OIIIIIIO

I have it in good faith that the LOW will be Dante not Mephy


----------



## ntaw

OIIIIIIO said:


> I have it in good faith that the LOW will be Dante not Mephy


In good faith, eh? I guess it makes sense that Dante, being 1100 years old or whatever, would be elevated to the LoW selection. Still, being the lone wolf that he has been in previous editions I feel the shoe fits better on Mephiston. I really hope there's some awesome Death From Above Detachment in the new Codex like we saw with the Grey Knights (not sure about Space Wolves).


----------



## Einherjar667

Sanguinary terminators sound VERY cool


----------



## nowherewefeartotread

*Blood Angels Typo in DE Digital*

Just saw on Faeit 212 that there was an error in the original DE Digital Codex, in one of the formations it says "Any Blood Angels Unit" instead of "Any Dark Eldar Unit" critical fail GW. But does this mean BA are ACTUALLY next? :grin:


----------



## Zion

nowherewefeartotread said:


> Just saw on Faeit 212 that there was an error in the original DE Digital Codex, in one of the formations it says "Any Blood Angels Unit" instead of "Any Dark Eldar Unit" critical fail GW. But does this mean BA are ACTUALLY next? :grin:


Even if they aren't next, they are in production enough for GW to make a copy paste error when writing things.


----------



## ntaw

Even if they aren't next, there's only two books left for update from 4th and that's Necrons and Blood Angels. We just _gotta_ get some new shiny soon enough.


----------



## Achaylus72

Now, this is as strong a rumour I have been told, but still treat it as a rumour.

The new Blood Angels Codex has been ship to distribution centres over a month ago and is slotted for either late October or early November release, also Necrons will follow within a month afterwards as their Codex has been printed and the first batch have been sent to Britain, ready for distribution by December, meaning Necrons in December/January release.

That's what I have been told, I hope it is correct.


----------



## nowherewefeartotread

ntaw said:


> We just _gotta_ get some new shiny soon enough.


I hear you NTAW, I'm looking forward to some love for the Angels. Been holding my own on the tabletop (barely) but we could really use an update now. Just the points reduction to match the Vanilla marines will even the odds, never mind any new units, rules etc.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Achaylus72 said:


> Now, this is as strong a rumour I have been told, but still treat it as a rumour.
> 
> The new Blood Angels Codex has been ship to distribution centres over a month ago and is slotted for either late October or early November release, also Necrons will follow within a month afterwards as their Codex has been printed and the first batch have been sent to Britain, ready for distribution by December, meaning Necrons in December/January release.
> 
> That's what I have been told, I hope it is correct.


Yes and no here,
Blood Angels then Necrons has been known to be due next for 40k for a lil while now, but BA will not have been shipped a month ago as it's only just finished printing........


----------



## ntaw

Some poorly translated English from fanhammer.org, just for the sake of posting something here:



> Following the publication of the recent Dark Eldar codex, rumors again revolve around which will be the next army Warhammer 40.000 to receive a new update, pointing to Necrones and Blood Angels, and it seems that the latter are gaining.
> Rumours reaching us say the following:
> - New Character, probably a captain (1st company ¿?).
> - Mephiston is set al Plastic.
> - New Pest Control box with all weapon options.
> - New box of Assault Marines.
> - Nuevo Dreadnought genérico.
> - Plastic box of the Honor Guard.
> - Mephistón becomes a Lord of War, becoming much more powerful psychic level.
> - Guide Paint Blood Angels.
> - Supplement on the new captain.
> - Flesh Tearers, now under surveillance of the Inquisition.
> - A rumor sweeps the empire, marking one of the successor chapters as a traitor (No Rippers).
> - The imperial authorities seem to have put an inquisitive eye on the Blood Angels.


I wouldn't give it much credit, but at least it's something subtly different.


----------



## ntaw

Here we have a subtly more reliably source, from natfka (saying pretty much the same thing):



> The latest rumors have suggested that Necrons might be seeing a model wave, but that Blood Angels will be the next 40k codex release. The timing of this we are not yet sure of, but when we start seeing info like this, it highly suggests that it will not be too far out.
> 
> 
> Please remember that these are rumors.
> 
> via Steve the Warboss on Faeit 212
> I got some Informations:
> 
> -New Character, a Captain (maybe 1.Company)
> -Mephiston in plastic
> -New Terminator Box with all weapon options
> -New Assault Marine Box
> -New generic Dreadnought
> -Honour Guard Box (maybe only an repack)
> 
> -Mephiston will be a LoW, he turned into a "uber" psyker
> -BA Painting Guide
> -Suppliment featuring the new captain
> 
> -The Flesh Tearers are now watched by the Inquisition
> -A Rumor make the round in the Imperium, one of the BA successor chapters are traitors (not the Flesh Tearers)
> -The attitude of Imperial authorities over the BA worsen


----------



## Einherjar667

New pest control box!!!


----------



## ntaw

If it ain't Black Flag I ain't buying it.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

I heard from an unrelated, unreliable source, that Blood Angels are also getting the Hello Kitty Easy Bake Oven add to their 'dex.


----------



## mrknify

Sweet, that will go with my little pony chainsaw massacre set.


----------



## The Son of Horus

Couldn't tell you what's in the book, but I preordered three copies today for the store. So this is, for sure, the next book. Cover art is of Lemartes and Death Company and it's raining blood on the cover... guess we'll see if they went full retard on it again. I hope not, I love the sort of somber ultra-Catholic Blood Angels instead of the sparkly vampire Blood Angels they've sort of pushed with the last book.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

The Son of Horus said:


> Couldn't tell you what's in the book, but I preordered three copies today for the store. So this is, for sure, the next book. Cover art is of Lemartes and Death Company and it's raining blood on the cover... guess we'll see if they went full retard on it again. I hope not, I love the sort of somber ultra-Catholic Blood Angels instead of the sparkly vampire Blood Angels they've sort of pushed with the last book.


They were "sparkly" in the last book? How?


----------



## Tawa

Jace of Ultramar said:


> They were "sparkly" in the last book? How?


It was revealed that Dante's surname is Pattinson.....


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Tawa said:


> It was revealed that Dante's surname is Pattinson.....


Oh Freak'n Wow :shok:

Does this conclude that Lemates is Transylvanian?


----------



## Tawa

Yes, he is. And he runs a pet shop there....


----------



## Bindi Baji

The latest Blood Angels Codex will move away from the previous Codex and will look to establish them as Space-Vampire-Pirates, this will swiftly be followed by The new Space Werewolf-Ninja based Space Wolves Codex and then the Emo/Goth/Catholic/Vegan; Dark Angels Codex Featuring the new Chapter Master Morrissey the undying


----------



## Nordicus




----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Nordicus said:


>


A bit, yeah. At the start of Bindi's response I thought he was serious at first glance and I thought "How cool, space vampire pirates! Wait... that's sarcasm, right? Bazinga!"


----------



## ntaw

A new codex with 6th/7th edition points costs taken into account would be great, but I'm really stoked to see if there will actually be a repack of the Assault, Honour Guard, and Terminator boxes like the rumour from natfka states. There used to be a Blood Angel Honour Guard box, came with a Standard Bearer, Sanguinary Priest, Techmarine, and two Veterans: one with power sword and one with plasma gun. All with BA iconography on various parts to make them a little bit more unique.

Wouldn't it be stellar if GW sold Assault marines in a 10 model box?


----------



## locustgate

Bindi Baji said:


> The latest Blood Angels Codex will move away from the previous Codex and will look to establish them as Space-Vampire-Pirates, this will swiftly be followed by The new Space Werewolf-Ninja based Space Wolves Codex and then the Emo/Goth/Catholic/Vegan; Dark Angels Codex Featuring the new Chapter Master Morrissey the undying


The werewolf ninjas would KICK the vampire pirates ASS...ES


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

ntaw said:


> A new codex with 6th/7th edition points costs taken into account would be great, but I'm really stoked to see if there will actually be a repack of the Assault, Honour Guard, and Terminator boxes like the rumour from natfka states. There used to be a Blood Angel Honour Guard box, came with a Standard Bearer, Sanguinary Priest, Techmarine, and two Veterans: one with power sword and one with plasma gun. All with BA iconography on various parts to make them a little bit more unique.
> 
> Wouldn't it be stellar if GW sold Assault marines in a 10 model box?


That would be great, but, I can see it being a box with Death Company sprues.


----------



## Tawa

Jace of Ultramar said:


> That would be great, but, I can see it being a box with Death Company sprues.


All of the win.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Tawa said:


> All of the win.


Yup.


----------



## ntaw

From natfka:



> via Lords of War Gaming ***
> This just in from Lords of War Gaming on Facebook:
> 
> There will be a campaign book that is released early November. Necrons are not for a while I know of two armies that are next and another codex that will shock people next year.
> 
> Early November campaign book... with Blood Angels?
> I been told that there will be a box like Storm Claw. BA for sure but I don't know it its Nids or Necrons. If I was to guess I would say Necrons following the Storm Claw model.
> 
> End of the year as in December or in November?
> I was told December. I don't not know if it is at the beginning or at the end.
> 
> 
> via Arschbombe on dakka **
> No new model, but you will get:
> DLC1: Dataslate Tycho. $20
> DLC2: Dataslate Death Company Tycho $25.
> 
> Everyone I knew that worked in the GW Studio has moved on so I am just speculating here, but I think Blood Angels/Tyranids makes more sense. With new Tyranids being released in the next 6-7 weeks (also from Lords of War Gaming on Facebook), a surprise Codex coming out next year, and the Necrons Codex not being released "for a while", it does fit.
> 
> And there there is a fluff story about Hivefleet Leviathan landing on Baal in the Blood Angels Codex where the Scions of Sangunius make their last stand. Plus, last time after Space Hulk was released we saw the release of Tyranids followed by the Blood Angels. Coincidence? Who knows, but it is fun to speculate. Also would GW release a new Nids Codex so soon? That would certainly be a surprise.


I'd be down for a Nid/BA box like Stormclaw. It would definitely be my start on a Tyranid army!


----------



## Asamodai

I just want to say before anyone gets mad that I'm pretty sure that the person saying there would be two Tycho dataslates did so as a joke.


----------



## Einherjar667

Asamodai said:


> I just want to say before anyone gets mad that I'm pretty sure that the person saying there would be two Tycho dataslates did so as a joke.


Seconded, I heard the same thing. that it was a sarcastic post from some forum.


----------



## ntaw

Honestly I didn't even look at that part of the rumour. I'm more stoked on a campaign focused around Baal, Tycho can suck a lemon.


----------



## nowherewefeartotread

The new box set is called..... Shield of Baal: Leviathan apparently. No idea on the contents yet but it's heavily suggested that it will be Blood Angels vs Tyranids. Stormclaw style limited release and may include a model for BA 1st Company Captain. The Shield of Baal is the "name" of the Blood Angels 1st Company consisting of Veterans and Furioso Dreadnoughts only. That is all according to the fluff in the Chapter Composition section of the current BA codex.


----------



## Einherjar667

Wow, that sold out fast.


----------



## ntaw

Intensely fast. I was seriously considering buying it but the $90 price tag was a bit much. Given that we have a new campaign with Baal in the name it may be safe to say Blood Angels are next....despite it being focused on the Astra Militarum, Sisters of Battle, and Tyranids.


----------



## Einherjar667

The Blood Angels will probably get involved, thats how the last one went


----------



## ntaw

Fuck I am stoked. Quite happy I managed to find a new job, prior if there was a new BA Codex around Christmas that combined with present buying for family would ruin me :laugh:


----------



## Einherjar667

Haha! Isnt that a great feeling? Same with me and the recent WoC stuff


----------



## bitsandkits

I smell a rat, that sold old far too quickly, what's the bet the stores have crap tons of copies allocated like with space hulk, trying to get folks back into stores me thinks


----------



## ntaw

Bits, I have the sinking feeling you're right about the 'limited release'. My local GW posted not long ago that they will indeed be getting some copies in and that we should all rush out to get them....except this is the same store that couldn't sell all their copies of Space Hulk. Whether it's sold out or not it's still a good sign for the Blood Angels!! ...unless they get entirely written out of the 40k universe by the Tyranids.


----------



## Einherjar667

bitsandkits said:


> I smell a rat, that sold old far too quickly, what's the bet the stores have crap tons of copies allocated like with space hulk, trying to get folks back into stores me thinks



Eh, the End Times books sold out that fast and were pretty damn hard to find in stores. Most got like, two in.


----------



## OIIIIIIO

Up on Faeit ... salt is advised:

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/11/shield-of-baal-exterminatus.html?m=1


----------



## DaisyDuke

It seems its on for BA's at last.


----------



## Bindi Baji

OIIIIIIO said:


> Up on Faeit ... salt is advised:
> 
> http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/11/shield-of-baal-exterminatus.html?m=1


so i'm guessing we're waiting on more books with Ultramarines Smurfguard special edition and a Dark Angels Mopeyguard special edition


----------



## bitsandkits

Einherjar667 said:


> Eh, the End Times books sold out that fast and were pretty damn hard to find in stores. Most got like, two in.


Yeah but that's the US, its all different over here in the UK and EU


----------



## bitsandkits

Bindi Baji said:


> so i'm guessing we're waiting on more books with Ultramarines Smurfguard special edition and a Dark Angels Mopeyguard special edition


Makes perfect sense, no reason to believe that they won't, people are hungry for books like these


----------



## Einherjar667

I am getting more excited about books than models at this point, haha.


----------



## Haskanael

http://natfka.blogspot.nl/2014/11/no-mephiston-as-lord-of-war-and-3-kits.html 
a little tid bit of news.

*



via Stickmonkey on Faeit 212
from what I understand all the existing BA specific boxes are also getting updated to the new style: (SG, DC, Baal, Dread). Though, I do believe sources saying BAs are getting a new Terminator box. 
I believe BA have 1 vehicle and another "marine" box in this release. but its a very small release, 3 kits total...4 if you count the "campaign" box with the captain. And they are saying no Mephiston LOW, that that's just internet wish-listing run rampant. (Which, I had fallen victim to myself...too many voices)
take it for what its worth, though, cause none of my sources had the tyranid release.

Click to expand...

*


----------



## ntaw

Then there's this:


----------



## Einherjar667

Ha.


----------



## ntaw

^ :rofl:


----------



## neferhet

From Faeit 212, listed as reliable. the blood talons seems killy!

"two changes on wargear that might interest you.........
blood talons are Sx2 AP2 with melee, shred, and specialist weapon
magna grapples give you move through cover, and you can re-roll failed charges when assaulting a vehicle."

EDIT: Also, from BoLS

"First off the new lineup for December 13th: 

Codex: Blood Angels hardback 112 pages $49.50
Blood Angels Tactical Squad 10 miniatures $43
Blood Angels Sanguinary Priest 1 miniature $30
Datacards: Blood Angels 7 psychic powers 36 tactical objectives $10
Sons of Sanguinius: A Blood Angels Painting Guide paperback 176pgs $33
Blood Angels Dice available while stocks last 10 dice in tin $17
Mephiston Red Spray basecoat $18
Codex: Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard Edition slipcase with prints and accessories online only $165

Smaug 1 miniature online only $490
Bard the Bowman with Windlance 1 miniature $40
Lake-Town Militia Captain 1 miniature $20
Lake-Town Militia Swordsmen 3 miniatures $25
Lake-town Militia Bowmen 3 miniatures $25
Lake-Town Militia Spearmen 3 miniatures $25

Horus Heresy: Legacies of Betrayal hardback 448pgs $30
Horus Heresy; Garro- Shield of Lies audio drama $29.95

Heart of Rage audio drama $15

Deathstorm Info:

Captain Karlean WS6 @150pts
Terminator Armour with Iron Halo, Storm Bolter
- Relic of Baal: Melee, Concussive, Master-crafted, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy.
- Strategic Genius: +1 seize the initiative, and can re-roll any reserve roll

Children of Cryptus: 8 Genestealers and the Spawn of Cryptus for a little over 200pts.

Spawn of Cryptus: T5 with 3 wounds and has preferred enemy and has rending claws. 
- Infiltrate, Fleet, Move Through Cover, and Stealth. 
- Lvl 1 psyker; The Horror, Dominion.

New Characters & Wargear:

New Character Forgot to add that there's a new sculpt for a special character coming in plastic as well. From the description I received it sounds like Dante

Blood Angels: Quickening
Primaris power. Its a blessing that effects either the psyker or another character within 12". The target gains fleet, d3 initiative and attacks. Roll once and apply both the result to both initiative and attacks. Warp Charge 1

Blood Talons: Sx2 AP2 Melee, Shred, and Specialist weapon.

Magna Grapples: Move Through Cover, and you can re-roll failed charges when assaulting a vehicle. "


----------



## ntaw

It makes a lot of sense that Blood Talons would be AP2, I wonder if that will take away from their crazy new-attack-with-every-wound thing. Either way, my BT arms will be put back on at least one of my Furiosos.


----------



## Vaz

Wouldn't have thought so. Unless they allow an Assault from Deep Strike or Run+Assault, then they're still going to risk being kited. Plus, with 2+ Saves being in the meta quite a lot, and still being capable against Vehicles (S10 AP2 is decent because every man and his dog is bringing Land Raiders).

Blendernaughts getting around 8 potential attacks is alright, but it's still assault.


----------



## ntaw

Vaz said:


> Unless they allow an Assault from Deep Strike or Run+Assault, then they're still going to risk being kited.


Ever used this fancy thing called a Stormraven? It carried a Dreadnought and has the Assault Vehicle rule, works great for getting Furiosos into combat. Then there's Dreadnought Drop Pods from FW, which allow for an assault out of Deep Strike.

Ultimately any CC-oriented unit is going to have a tough time in this edition, but Talons not being S6 AP3 any more makes a huge difference in their worth as a piece of wargear. I'm not banking on it happening until I hold the new 'dex in hand, but it'd be a nice buff to a weapon that currently isn't very versatile.


----------



## ntaw

Dec. 6th it's looking like we'll be seeing them Blood Angels.


----------



## Vaz

ntaw said:


> Ever used this fancy thing called a Stormraven? It carried a Dreadnought and has the Assault Vehicle rule, works great for getting Furiosos into combat. Then there's Dreadnought Drop Pods from FW, which allow for an assault out of Deep Strike.


You reading the same rules I am for the FW Drop Pod assault? Which categorically states that you cannot assault from Deep Strike still, and might want to check out "Moving on from Reserve" in the BRB, and Skies of Fury explicitly prevents assaulting thanks to Skies of Fury. It works like jackshit for getting Furioso's into combat, considering that you can't assault until Turn 3.

If they can't make it to combat any quicker than they can already, they're still gash. All that happens now is that they now have a more varied set of targets that they can theoretically assault. At least Lucius Dreadnought Drop pods, allow Turn 2 assaults, and have Shrouding, and apply it to the Dreadnought, that's a 50pt model tax...


----------



## ntaw

Forgive me if I got the Drop Pod part wrong, are these the current rules for "Dreadnought Drop Pod (Lucius Pattern)"? If it is, 



> Assault Vehicle: A Dreadnought disembarking a Lucius Pattern
> Dreadnought Drop Pod can launch an assault the turn it does so.
> (Note this differs from the rules for normal drop pods).


this explicitly states that I'm right. If I'm wrong so be it, ain't the first time and it won't be the last. It's not a unit I use, just that (I thought) I was aware of. As for the Stormraven you can pull the claws back a little bit, I never said anything about using Skies of Fury to pull some bullshit rules manipulation. Fly on T2 (soonest, anyway), Hover and Assault T3. They may not be able to make it into combat any quicker, but you said it yourself:



Vaz said:


> All that happens now is that they now have a more varied set of targets that they can theoretically assault.


How is that a bad thing? It ain't quicker, but those claws can Instant Death up to T5 now, its a viable weapon against tanks, if it keeps the ability to generate extra wounds it can level squads of infantry....these are all positive things.


----------



## Einherjar667




----------



## maximus2467

New corbulo?


----------



## Einherjar667

I have no idea, people just share this stuff on Instagram with no explanation lol


----------



## ntaw

Good find @Einherjar667, that model is fucking gorgeous....and exactly why I almost hoped there wouldn't be a new Priest model. My scratch built one is gunna be pretty shoddy lookin' next to that beaut! :laugh:

The more I look at it though the more I want it to be a new Corbulo model. The chalice is almost identical, looks like artificer armour, and he did have a special chainsword that could have looked WAY cooler than the original one. It kinda looks like a weird mash-up of Tycho, Corbulo, and Mephiston('s robes). In the blurb for picture 1 (the chalice itself) it states that the blood chalice is the badge of office for priests in general, so maybe this is just how fancy BA are gunna be now. Each new picture for this release that I see makes me sad that I have so many vanilla marine models painted red now.


----------



## neferhet

nice find, but static model, resembling the oldies of 1994.


----------



## Einherjar667

Coolest codex art yet


----------



## Vaz

ntaw said:


> Forgive me if I got the Drop Pod part wrong, are these the current rules for "Dreadnought Drop Pod (Lucius Pattern)"? If it is,


Nope. That's from the 4th (5th?) Edition update for Imperial Armour Volume 2 - not the 2nd edition (i.e 2nd edition print, updated for 6th (or is it 7th?) edition game), the original 3rd edition release one. The Lucius Dreadnought I'm reading from was IA Vol2 2nd Edition, the most current, unless there's a new PDF update - which almost certainly will not affect it.



> As for the Stormraven you can pull the claws back a little bit, I never said anything about using Skies of Fury to pull some bullshit rules manipulation. Fly on T2 (soonest, anyway), Hover and Assault T3. They may not be able to make it into combat any quicker, but you said it yourself:
> 
> How is that a bad thing? It ain't quicker, but those claws can Instant Death up to T5 now, its a viable weapon against tanks, if it keeps the ability to generate extra wounds it can level squads of infantry....these are all positive things.


Provided said Walker can hit said model. You can't catch much now in melee with it now, and unless there's some more reliable delivery method, it's still just asking to eat a melta in the face. Having a wider range of theoretical targets makes no difference. That's probably a much more competitive style of meta though.

That sword is cool as fuck on the Sang Priest though.


----------



## Zion

ntaw said:


> Forgive me if I got the Drop Pod part wrong, are these the current rules for "Dreadnought Drop Pod (Lucius Pattern)"? If it is,


Current rules for the drop pod (from what I remember without looking at IA2:V2 right this second) don't include the "assault on turn it deep strikes" rule, but also doesn't make you disembark (or stay disembarked).

It also gives passengers shrouded.


----------



## ntaw

Well @Vaz, I guess I just haven't had the same problems playing my Furiosos that you have. Hitting something in CC with WS6? Not typically an issue, though dice can be bitches to be sure. Flying on (up to 36") means you can basically put the 'raven on top of what you want to charge the following turn, and not much you want to charge with a dreadnought can get further than 12-18" away in one turn which is easily reachable with a 6" move, 6" disembark, and 2-12" charge range (again, barring them bitchy dice). I fully agree that T3 at the soonest is a bit too late, but I am still very down for Sx2 AP2 Blood Talons over the current incarnation.

Comment retracted (clearly!) about the assaulting out of the Drop Pod, thanks for setting me straight on that one guys. I had once considered spending the bucks on those massive Pods just for that reason!

Sweet looking 'dex cover. Just got my DV rulebook in the mail today, can't wait to get this on the go at the GW a town over. My red army will fight again!!


----------



## Vaz

Eh, I meant hitting as in reaching, and with the AT running around these days, it's surprising that it makes contact, or does anything useful - Eldar and Marines are nippy as ever, nor am I a fan of leaving it at risk of Crew Stunned/Immobilised on a zooming flyer. Still different strokes for different folks, and if you can get your Dreads into CC, enjoy your even better blenders =) - at least now you can take on those GKT's - just look out for hammers!


----------



## neferhet

a slightly better version of the codex front page:


----------



## Scarvia

ntaw said:


> Good find @Einherjar667, that model is fucking gorgeous....and exactly why I almost hoped there wouldn't be a new Priest model. My scratch built one is gunna be pretty shoddy lookin' next to that beaut! :laugh:
> 
> The more I look at it though the more I want it to be a new Corbulo model. The chalice is almost identical, looks like artificer armour, and he did have a special chainsword that could have looked WAY cooler than the original one. It kinda looks like a weird mash-up of Tycho, Corbulo, and Mephiston('s robes). In the blurb for picture 1 (the chalice itself) it states that the blood chalice is the badge of office for priests in general, so maybe this is just how fancy BA are gunna be now. Each new picture for this release that I see makes me sad that I have so many vanilla marine models painted red now.


It's just called Sanguinary priest, not a specific one. 








(From here: http://descansodelescriba.blogspot.de/2014/12/nuevo-sacerdote-sanguinario-de-plastico.html)


----------



## gen.ahab

Not really into the Fabio Marines myself, but I've got to say that that cover is great. Almost makes them as manly as Furry Corp.


----------



## ntaw

Check this out from over on deadard. Blurry pictures of a new BA Libby in TDA and the Terminator squad. I agree with the poster of this, those poses just aren't in the current range.


----------



## maximus2467

Not convinced that's a new termy Libby or new termies though I pray I'm wrong


----------



## ntaw

The thing I notice most is the blood drop iron halo looking icon on top of the terminator in the back. That and the storm shield on the robed sergeant. As for the Libby, I thought it was just the Space Hulk one at first then I realized that the axe was in the wrong hand. The terminator standard bearer also looks like he has a black winged blood drop icon on his chest, which isn't a current cast.

Not to mention, thunder hammer and terminator armour on a standard bearer? I'm thinking terminator command squad.


----------



## maximus2467

Shame it's so bloody blurry


----------



## MidnightSun

Can't say I'm a fan of how the front of the robe is kept open by his artillery shell-like nipples, but apart from that I guess he's pretty cool.

Also, I must say the first thing I noticed about the Tacticals wasn't the weird base size, it was the plastic Heavy Flamer you get in the box. Er, yeah, Heavy Flamers are what Tacticals have been needing. Sign me up.


----------



## Einherjar667

http://imgur.com/a/mPzfX

Not too shabby, photos of the tac squad.


----------



## DaisyDuke

The tac squad bits look pretty good although they verge on to the edge of chaos spikey bits. But they look ripe for the conversion. Bout time the blood's got some love.
Also no grav gun? But nice combi's


----------



## Khorne's Fist

We saw something similar before the SW codex came out. A blurry pic that made us think there was a termie WP on the way, that turned out to be a conversion. I'm gonna call the same thing here with that libbie. As for the termies, they probably should get a box of their own, but I think a lot of the bits on those minis are from existing kits.

As an aside, I'll put these here for those too lazy to click.


----------



## Asamodai

My desire to add a Blood Angel allies force is rising.


----------



## Arcticor

Blood Angels are up on GW!


----------



## maximus2467

Wow, the dice sold out quick


----------



## The Sturk

I noticed that the reboxed Sang Guard and Death Company have the 32mm bases. What does that mean going forward? I'm not questioning the validity of the 25mm bases, I just wonder if all new kits that had 25mm bases will become 32mm.


----------



## Einherjar667

The Sturk said:


> I noticed that the reboxed Sang Guard and Death Company have the 32mm bases. What does that mean going forward? I'm not questioning the validity of the 25mm bases, I just wonder if all new kits that had 25mm bases will become 32mm.


Could it have something to do with the rules in the Codex? I am not familiar with BA so I have no idea.

My honest guess is that people thought they were too tippy. I know Chaos Raptors have that problem, and could use the wider bases. No idea why the tac squad is like that though.


----------



## OIIIIIIO

Seems like they are moving all Space Marines to 32 mm bases.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

A few sneak peeks if you go into the painting guide. Looks like there will be a termie box after all, and the termie librarian looks like he might be the real deal. Looks like the 1st company have been renamed the Archangels. If you go to the page you can use the zoom to see it a bit better. There's also a bit of a write up on the 2nd company captain. I wonder will he get a mini.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Sons-of-Sanguinius-Blood-Angels-Painting-Guide


----------



## ntaw

Just pre-ordered the 'dex. Had to "talk" the girlfriend into letting me do it, usually the month of December is a no-fly zone for buying ourselves things so as to avoid Christmas present mishaps.

Fuck I am excited.

There's a few Space Hulk models in that picture for sure, but some of the others and the Librarian definitely look new and fancy. If we get a new character and he as a power sword and plasma pistol I might be a bit let down, but I'm curious to read of this totally new successor chapter.


----------



## kickboxerdog

here some more pics


----------



## OIIIIIIO

I should have my dex on Wednesday. I will be on here to answer some questions after I get home.


----------



## tu_shan82

ntaw said:


> If we get a new character and he as a power sword and plasma pistol I might be a bit let down, but I'm curious to read of this totally new successor chapter.


I wouldn't, worry about the captain, I'm willing to bet he's only going to be a kit bashed model in the painting guide with a bit of fluff and a guide on how to paint him. The reason being that I have the Companies of Fenris painting guide and there are kitbashed models for wolf lords, Evil Ironwlf and Sven Bloodhowl, kinda cool as they give you an idea as to how to include these named characterin your army. Really looking forward to getting my hands on Sons of Sanguinius, as Companies of Fenris is really good and I think this will be too. I'm also curious about this new successor chapter too.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I have three stormtalons and a stormraven in their box still, was going to add them to my current marine force, but perhaps they could be useful for some blood angels, although I hate painting red


----------



## OIIIIIIO

Airbrush it .... red goes SOOOOO much better with an airbrush. I use GW paints mixed 50% with windex (Window cleaner in a spray bottle, I get clear with vinegar) and it sprays great.


----------



## kickboxerdog

im gonna try the new gw spray out ive ordered , see how that goes


----------



## ntaw

@OIIIIIIO I'd love to hear Mephiston and Dante's rules if you have the time when you get your 'dex. I wish I was getting mine early....as it is I think I'll be able to wait until Saturday for the rest of the rules, barring anything you feel the need to type of course. The GW a town over has an open gaming day coinciding with the release, I may power through the book in-store and make a list up to play. Fuck I love being employed and not working weekends.


----------



## kickboxerdog

lol I just wanna know if there is such a new thing as death company terminators, im kinda hoping there is lol


----------



## GuroG

ntaw said:


> @OIIIIIIO I'd love to hear Mephiston and Dante's rules if you have the time when you get your 'dex. I wish I was getting mine early....as it is I think I'll be able to wait until Saturday for the rest of the rules, barring anything you feel the need to type of course. The GW a town over has an open gaming day coinciding with the release, I may power through the book in-store and make a list up to play. Fuck I love being employed and not working weekends.



2nd that I'm a big Mephiston fan, have playing the Blood Angels since the rogue trader days when you just painted your marines red!


----------



## AledM

So apparently they've completely redone Blood Angels. Biggest disappointment for me - no more assault marines as troops.....

http://dedard.blogspot.ca/2014/12/spanish-version-of-blood-angels-codex.html#more


----------



## MidnightSun

Army wide Furious Charge that also gives +1 Initiative. Yes. Yes indeed. Oh, and Sanguinary Priests buff your Weapon Skill? Hey, we're Assault Marines. We have WS5 S5 I5 and Meltaguns. We heard you said we were bad.


----------



## ntaw

I'm....unsure about how I feel regarding those changes. Glad I haven't repainted painted my BA Rhino/ Razorbacks!


----------



## AledM

ntaw said:


> I'm....unsure about how I feel regarding those changes. Glad I haven't repainted painted my BA Rhino/ Razorbacks!


I'm actually coming round to it a lot more having reflected on it. People are generally still taking minimal troops so the loss of objective secured on our assault marines doesn't feel so bad now that they gain the old furious charge rule again. That extra initiative is just so crucial....

Not to mention all the extra heavy flamers we have access to....and reduced point costs across the board to be the same as the normal marines.

The new formations open up a lot for us in the future and the special characters generally seem far more playable than previously. Dante with his *corrected* axe and EW is pretty huge and our psychic powers and relics seem pretty dam decent too.

We will have to look at our lists from the 5th codex and change them yes....but ultimately I think we will prove to be a highly competitive army once again.


----------



## ntaw

Don't get me wrong, I'm liking the new things going on. My beef is that I got back into this game and finally got together a nice painted force with some RAS in Razorbacks: fuck that, 6th hit. Then I shift to buying jump squads to fill up my Troops and was even going to paint my Razorbacks yellow to be included in my Imperial Fist army and bams: no more jump squad Troops.

I'll adapt, and be stoked and excited again once I have the book in hand and start making lists. It's just....wearing a little thin that the linchpins of my list making and model buying keep shifting (an over the course of the last 2 years, judging by my 'join' date on Heresy). Change whatever the hell you want GW, just leave the fucking Troops section alone.


----------



## AledM

ntaw said:


> Don't get me wrong, I'm liking the new things going on. My beef is that I got back into this game and finally got together a nice painted force with some RAS in Razorbacks: fuck that, 6th hit. Then I shift to buying jump squads to fill up my Troops and was even going to paint my Razorbacks yellow to be included in my Imperial Fist army and bams: no more jump squad Troops.
> 
> I'll adapt, and be stoked and excited again once I have the book in hand and start making lists. It's just....wearing a little thin that the linchpins of my list making and model buying keep shifting (an over the course of the last 2 years, judging by my 'join' date on Heresy). Change whatever the hell you want GW, just leave the fucking Troops section alone.


I know how you feel man. I only have assault marines at the moment....I also recently bought a new vindicator so I had 2 fast pie plates to drop around while my troops pushed forward.....Sadly that was never meant to be...

But as i said....as long as we fill those two troops slots....all is game!


----------



## Zion

Something that was dropped in my PM box this morning:



> Hey Zion!
> 
> Someone on warseer apparently has a spanish BA codex out a few days early and has been doing a Q/A and summary. I got all this before it was taken down by the mods, I was wondering if you could share it anonymously on the BA rumors thread (as well as make any adjustments so its ok to post, for like points costs and stuff).
> 
> 
> "so, one of the stand out little tidbits is that, 5 assault marines in a drop pod with two infernos pistols and 2 melta guns[you read that correctly] are 5 points LESS that before, when they only had one melta gun.
> 
> Dante is about the same price he was before, he also gains a tactical objective trait along with descent of angels... which, works on anything coming from reserves... like...drop pods, terms every darn thing gets to only scatter d6 and reroll failed reserve attempts.
> 
> corbulo's +1 ini stacks with everything else, only his +1 ws doesn't stack with other priests.
> 
> the sanguinor costs a storm raven now.... and flying him with corbulo in one, could be hilarious, with a 6 inch from the hull +1 WS,INI, ATT buff
> 
> furioso cost the same as they did before and magna grapples are a free replacement to smoke launchers. Frag canons now cost five points but are exactly the same !!!
> 
> the libby dreads can get a melta gun to replace the storm bolter and the force weapon is an ap2 strx2 force weapon.
> 
> furioso are only ws 5 , but still a v13
> 
> Astorath is very sad, same stats as before and his warlord trait is adamantium will.. his axe is +1 strength ap2..two handed unwieldily. but on a 6 it auto wounds and causes instant death[of course you can still save that wound normally]
> he's the only guy that makes DC reroll to wound no a charge.
> 
> otherwise he has the usual rules for a chaplain and FC of course....he costs 5 points less than captain karl at least.
> 
> Death company no longer have a limit on how many pistol weapons or melee weapons[no grav pistols though] and you can get up to 15 in a squad... 3 points a jump pack same price as the old lot base
> 
> command squad looks just the same as a standard squad, they can take jump packs for 25 and the squad costs a century. standard 3 vets a company champion and a noviciate
> 
> the bikes look the same bar furious charge I think.. 63 points base can get two special weapons, including grav, they can get an attack bike and up to 5 more.. that kind a stuff, nothing weird
> 
> yup dual wielding inferno pistols on seargants is a thing.. wee.....
> 
> super annoyingly, you can't buy them artificer armour.....and you can't buy arti armour for the sang priest either.
> 
> oh, you can get a 50 point tech marine as your HQ
> 
> Just a narethium for the noviciate
> 
> it's 135 points for 4 melts in a pod
> 
> yes, relic blades and arti armour are options for the captain.... who is still pretty pointless looking at all the sweet baby love you can get form all the other choices
> 
> sang priests are 1 per slot , just like tech marines[well if you really want a cheap ass hq I guess]
> 
> Lemmy is 20 points less, same stats as before but when he loses a wound only gains +1 strength and attacks. he is an elites slot no free slot for joining DC , which he has to do. oddly it says he can only join a dc squad.... can another ic join him.hmmmm
> 
> the blood angels battle company formation, is actually playable and badass. you get obsec AND +1 intiative on the charge.
> 1 captain
> 1 chaplain
> 1 command squad
> 6 tacticals
> 2 assault
> 2 dev
> 1 dc
> 1 dread
> 1furioso
> 
> all jump flyer or skimmer can reroll reserves with dant'es trait)
> 
> darn only jump and skimmer units get 1d6 less scatter.. oh, well, there I go getting excited
> 
> no land speeder storm
> 
> his pistol is just an inferno pistol, his masks causes a fear check to any unit in combat within 12 inches of him every fight phase
> he still has hit and run and has eternal warrior... man and he's 5 points cheaper than before [LOW of course] holy cow he's just lovely
> 
> you can get multiple death company squads.
> the detachment is annoyingly 1 to 4 elites[I was hoping 4 to 6]
> 
> so all vets are elite
> terms can take the company banner replacing a stomr shield or lightning claw, costs 5 points.
> company banner is the standard on
> Chapter banner does what it used to[nice as hell for 10man sang squads wowch!
> 
> only jump packs for command squad, only a narthecium not a grail for the novitiate
> 
> captains and chaplains are 90 each, have furious charge and are the same as CSM
> 
> Tycho is a little sad
> 
> Blood talons cost 10 points for the pair, just give shred
> 
> no dead mans hand
> no army buff
> his war old trait gives him rampage
> 
> no special ammo but the combi part and the bolter part are master crafted.
> 
> he costs 40 more points than a normal captain.
> 
> tycho the lost costs 15 more points and you get
> feel no pain, relentless fearless rage
> and he can only join dc
> 
> furiosos and dc dreads cost the same as before
> All dreads bar cassor are in the elites
> 
> Ravens are heavy and have storm strike missiles...meh isn only 5 point extra armour and 10 point locator beacon
> 
> infernus pistols are just standard gear, 15 points a pop.
> 
> for a dreadshock list, libby dreads look amazing strength 10 ap2 force weapon, melta gun[you can buy them one now squeeze] quickening primaris. nice thing s to roll on the warlord table.
> 
> so 2 libby dreads
> 4 furiosos
> cassor the damned, all in lucius pods.
> 
> add other things to taste, only need one more troop as well
> 
> vinidis and preds can get the fast upgrade for ten
> 
> Meph only gets to roll for two powers, his other one just gives him strength 10.
> 
> the hypnotic gaze is a leadership check in a challenge, if the opponent result is equal or greater on 2d6, me phi hits them on 2+
> 
> 115 for the baal pred, no scout, no torrent flame storm
> 
> and yes you can get auspex for characters
> 
> lol yeah a bolt pistol for one point for the sang priest
> 
> rhino is 45[and fast of course]
> razor is 65 all weapon upgrades cost 20 except TL heavy flamer, which is free, the razor is also fast
> 
> assault squads get free pods or rhinos if they take off their jump packs
> 
> anyway, the masks are 1 point each the whole unit mudt get them and they make the unit cause fear,
> sang priests have two wounds, can get a bike but not arti or termy armour , can get relics and of course any of the standard and special war gear, just like a captain
> 
> dante is exactly the same stats wise
> 
> corbs doesn't have 2+ fnp, he does have three wounds and has the warlord trait which gives +1 initiative, which stacked with his grail gives him 7 initiative and ws6
> he lets you do one reroll of either a save a to hit roll a to wound roll, one scatter dice a leadership check and.... seize the initiative"
> 
> more on Dante, paraphrased: he's now EW, his axe is +2s ap2 master crafted, not unwieldy


So thanks person I'll be keeping anonymous unless they tell me otherwise! That's some nice work you did compiling this.


----------



## ntaw

Umm....I might need to buy a couple more Drop Pods and paint up my Corbulo model. Or use that sweet lookin' new Priest model as him.

Who's this Cassor the Damned chap? How have I missed us getting back a DC Dreadnought character?? I pined over the metal Furioso kit as a kid, hoping and praying that I may one day field Moriar the Chosen.


----------



## Arcticor

For those who can read spanish, or are interested in the stats, here are some pictures of the inside of the spanish codex. 










hopefully the links work, if not, scroll down about halfway on this page: http://laslagrimasnegras.blogspot.com.es/2014/12/novedades-leaks-del-codex-as-y-nuevos.html
*edit: oh look they work! Look at me still citing my sources though. If only I did that in college*


----------



## AledM

So who said this was a nerf?! After looking through the compilation that was posted anonymously it seems like we got a fantastic number of buffs and Blood Angels look very very good from a competitive point of view...


----------



## ntaw

I don't think anyone's said anything about things being nerf'd. I'm pretty stoked to play it out, looks like I'm going to be using my two 10 man Tactical squads a hell of a lot more. I'm a little dismayed to see that the twin-linked heavy flamer is the only free turret for the Razorback...considering they don't make one!

I can't wait to strike first in combat again.


----------



## Arcticor

Stuff on Tycho and DC Tycho (Now Tycho the Lost)


----------



## ntaw

Nutty Tycho can join nutty marines! Perfect. That's another model to paint back up.

EDIT: Fuck that, I'm gunna use the fancy armour from the new Tactical box with some DC bits to make a DC Tycho in a cooler pose.


----------



## Einherjar667

Wow, coolest Imperial army yet? I think so.


----------



## OIIIIIIO

I have the codex in hand and I have the datacards too ... have not opened them up yet though. Questions?


----------



## ntaw

Since Death Company have moved to Elites, has the 0-1 restriction been taken off?

Have Reclusiarch or Chaplains been taken entirely out of the HQ section?


----------



## OIIIIIIO

ntaw said:


> Since Death Company have moved to Elites, has the 0-1 restriction been taken off?
> 
> It has ... you start with 5 guys and can take up to 10 more .... outfitted however you see fit. JP are well worth it now, costing 3 searchlights worth.
> 
> Have Reclusiarch or Chaplains been taken entirely out of the HQ section?


Chappies are the only HQ choice left , Reclusiarch is gone.


----------



## ntaw

Death Company army without Astorath, that's pretty cool. Whoa....are they scoring now?!?!

Can Assault squads take two special weapons without adding extra members to the unit?


----------



## scscofield

the assault marine troop choice actually gone?


----------



## OIIIIIIO

ntaw said:


> Death Company army without Astorath, that's pretty cool. Whoa....are they scoring now?!?!
> 
> Can Assault squads take two special weapons without adding extra members to the unit?


HOLY FUCK ... 5 man RAS with 2 Meltas ... FTW!!!!!


----------



## OIIIIIIO

scscofield said:


> the assault marine troop choice actually gone?


Yes ... they are fast and DC are in elite ... we do get four elite choices though!!!

And we also get old school Furious Charge ... FTW.

Baal Strike Force gives red thirst. All units in detachment must be from C:BA and they then get +1 on the Initiative on the turn they charge .... FUCKING WIN.


----------



## Arcticor

OIIIIIIO, if you could give me some detail on the sanguinary priests (maybe changes to them, besides the obvious FoC shift, i know you can't post full profiles), as well as sang guard that would be fantastic. Also whats the max number of flamer weapons I could put into a 5man tac squad, would it be 2x hand flamers and heavy? 
-Arcticor


----------



## Khorne's Fist

OIIIIIIO said:


> Questions?


A fluff question, if you don't mind.

Have they advanced any of the previous codex fluff about Dante turning into a manic depressive, or Mephiston possibly being under demonic influence?


----------



## OIIIIIIO

Arcticor said:


> OIIIIIIO, if you could give me some detail on the sanguinary priests (maybe changes to them, besides the obvious FoC shift, i know you can't post full profiles), as well as sang guard that would be fantastic. Also whats the max number of flamer weapons I could put into a 5man tac squad, would it be 2x hand flamers and heavy?
> -Arcticor


Priests lost the bubble but they still give the unit they are with FNP. Like every unit has FC so that shit is awesome. Sang. Priests are about the same as last codex from what I can see.

Sang. Guard are about the same with a good points drop at 7ppm decrease from last codex and you can take up to ten per squad.


----------



## ntaw

OIIIIIIO said:


> HOLY FUCK ... 5 man RAS with 2 Meltas ... FTW!!!!!


Add two Inferno Pistols to that 

The Baal Strike Force (?) that has an extra (and mandatory) Elites slot and also gives us army wide +1 Initiative and the Chapter Tactic of Furious Charge please me. Combine with Corbulo as an HQ leading a squad of DC so they're back at WS5 (assuming the rumours of +1 WS for the Chalice are true...?) with a splash of Chaplain/Lemartez would make for a hella fun unit.


----------



## OIIIIIIO

ntaw said:


> Add two Inferno Pistols to that
> 
> The Baal Strike Force (?) that has an extra (and mandatory) Elites slot and also gives us army wide +1 Initiative and the Chapter Tactic of Furious Charge please me. Combine with Corbulo as an HQ leading a squad of DC so they're back at WS5 (assuming the rumours of +1 WS for the Chalice are true...?) with a splash of Chaplain/Lemartez would make for a hella fun unit.


Corby gives a bubble of WS increase ... a regular Priest gives it to just that squad ... good either way really

Wings of Sangy is sweet as hell too, during the psychic phase a UNIT immediately moves up to 12 inches ... but sadly can not charge the same turn that they move as such.


----------



## ntaw

WoS can still boot you almost 24" across the board (pending run D6), that's a T2 charge that didn't exist before. Whoa...can you use it on a vehicle??

Thanks for fielding the questions @OIIIIIIO!


----------



## OIIIIIIO

sadly no ... only Infantry unit, so no fast moving Furioso Dreads...

Unleash Rage is nice too. It gives the target unit Rage ... if said unit already has Rage, they get an additional attack on top of Rage. Think of 10 DC guys getting hit with that .... 70 attacks on the charge


----------



## ntaw

OIIIIIIO said:


> sadly no ... only Infantry unit, so no fast moving Furioso Dreads...


Well fuck. Does that mean that the Furioso Librarian can cast it but not on itself?

Oh, did we get any access to Pyromancy?


----------



## OIIIIIIO

ntaw said:


> Well fuck. Does that mean that the Furioso Librarian can cast it but not on itself?
> 
> Oh, did we get any access to Pyromancy?


Sanguinary, Biomancy, Deamonology, Divination







































....and Pyromancy


----------



## ntaw

Whaaaaaat?! Pyromancy for all and forget about Telekenisis and Telepathy?

I'm not disappointed if that's the case.


----------



## GuroG

OIIIIIIO said:


> I have the codex in hand and I have the datacards too ... have not opened them up yet though. Questions?




Drop pods in fast like SW

How does DofA now work

Is Mephiston innate blessing free or does it use one of his 3 slots so he only rolls 2 powers


----------



## Angel of Blood

OIIIIIIO said:


> sadly no ... only Infantry unit, so no fast moving Furioso Dreads...
> 
> Unleash Rage is nice too. It gives the target unit Rage ... if said unit already has Rage, they get an additional attack on top of Rage. Think of 10 DC guys getting hit with that .... 70 attacks on the charge


70??


----------



## scscofield

2 Atk base? + 1 for 2 ccw +2 rage +1 for unleash is 6 x10 = 60....


----------



## LordMolnar

Jump Packs for extra hits? That still a thing?


----------



## ntaw

Can't you take DC squads larger than 10 models? Damn shame that Chappy's don't give them the re-roll to-wound any more.

60 attacks on the charge is pretty nuts considering they can all have power weapons and will likely be accompanied by a Priest and Chappy for +1WS and +1I to stack on top of re rolls to-hit. That could be one hell of a unit charging out of a Land Raider.

EDIT: Jump Packs, if used to assault, would give the extra I10 attack each for sure.


----------



## scscofield

Str5 from FC also


----------



## ntaw

^ see? Awesome unit.


----------



## scscofield

Pricey


----------



## ntaw

Likely less pricey and arguably more effective than with the last edition. Still an expensive unit, but it will do some damage.


----------



## Angel of Blood

So potentially, 70 attacks at WS5 S5 I5, re-rolling to hit and can be with a collection of power weapons.

Holy shit balls.


----------



## ntaw

Really, it's only 10 more attacks than before and doesn't get re-rolls on the wound. The Initiative bonus mean I'm basically always running them in the Baal detachment though.


----------



## Vaz

Which can't assault on the charge* (meant to say Deep Strike), and will blitzed by a S8 AP3 pie plate within the first 2 turns.

Don't bother.


----------



## Arcticor

can't assault on the charge? what?


----------



## Vaz

Meant to say Deep Strike, my bad.


----------



## ntaw

:laugh: Hey @Vaz, what units _do_ you like?


----------



## kiro the avenger!

Whoa we lost assault marines as troops?
:cray::suicide:
Is there any way to get them back as troops?
If not guess im going unbound


----------



## ntaw

Why unbound, Kiro? With the Baal Predator moving to Heavy Support and Vanguard Vets going to Elites I doubt there's any competition for Fast Attack slots. Plus Tactical squads will be less expensive and with more weaponry options.


----------



## Vaz

ntaw said:


> :laugh: Hey @Vaz, what units _do_ you like?


30k. XD.

ObSec Jump Infantry really attracted me to the list. Now, the loss of that is a major spanner in the works. Now, they play like crapper Marines with the option to take a HQ Furioso. Assault sucks in 7th. No point in throwing down a shit ton of money time effort and points into an army that isn't going to do what I want it to.

BA were useful for Razorspam and the ability to take a ton of Predators but that's no longer particularly viable in 7th, especially now that Space Marines can spam Razors and take special or heavy weapons, and that BA have moved their preds to HS, which now share spots with Stormravens, and other Predators, I'm not impressed at all.

Seriously, back to 30K rules. At least there they have only troops scoring, and that Assault Marines are troops and have Furious Charge.

Here's a sample 30K list I'm building towards - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=174050 for example. Much more fun than 40K.


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## kiro the avenger!

Cos I don't have the points to bring 10 TH/SS termies and 20 assault marines if I'm dragin along 20 tactical marines to boot.
IMO assault marines as troops were our army- D.angels get termies AND bikes as troops if they like.
Smerfs get bikes if they like (more?)
G.knights get termies as troops as standard...
We get nothing, not deathcompany(I can understand those though, maybe with a storage made them troops?) but losing assault marines...
We don't even have any unique flyers.
It seems although individual units may have been buffed, but we've lost the armies soul IMO


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## lockeF

Blood angels were never my main force but I am bummed about a fee things. The movement of DC to elites and the loss of the reclusiarch. I liked running an allied detachment of a reclusiarch, DC, and a DC dread in a raven to my dark angels. Overall not huge and a supplement or dataslate could fix this. Especially with the loss of liturgies of blood and DC, I suppose I can just use an interrogator chaplain from DA. I just feel 2 wounds on a chaplain is too few. 

I do hope the codex ends up being fun and strong, similar to space wolves.


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## venomlust

The cynical part of me believes they purposely design codices with these shortcomings so that they can soothe our stinging little booties with dataslate fixes.

I don't play BA, but I can understand why players are frustrated with these changes. Hopefully there are enough positive fixes or options that alleviate this frustration. Doesn't seem like it yet, but maybe in time once things have been fiddled around with and tried out.


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## mrknify

The loss of dc and dc dred from troops saddens me. My all dc army now moot. Hopefully asteroth can make them troops again.


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## Vaz

No FoC changes whatsoever, pending supplement.


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## kiro the avenger!

Vaz said:


> No FoC changes whatsoever, pending supplement.


Now that just ain't fair :cray:
Every new codex has been able to tweak their troops with characters right?
Now correct me if im wrong but chaos gets their cult troops, death wing and more
Yet we don't?


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## mrknify

kiro the avenger! said:


> Now that just ain't fair :cray:
> Every new codex has been able to tweak their troops with characters right?
> Now correct me if im wrong but chaos gets their cult troops, death wing and more
> Yet we don't?


Its horrendous! All of our fluff says we can have a full dc army. Hope they update this with a dataslate.

Dataslate: Death Company Army!
Composition, all dc all the time!


Cheers.


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## MidnightSun

kiro the avenger! said:


> Now that just ain't fair :cray:
> Every new codex has been able to tweak their troops with characters right?
> Now correct me if im wrong but chaos gets their cult troops, death wing and more
> Yet we don't?


Chaos and Dark Angels aren't actually new, being 6th ed codices...

No 7th edition book has Force Organization Chart swaps. Believe me, the fallout in the Grey Knight community over Paladins and Purifiers/Draigo and Crowe was tremendous and we haven't got a supplement for it (and I don't think we will - doesn't bother me as I use Terminators for Troops, but it screwed a bunch of people over).


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## scscofield

Orks and SW do not have FOC swaps either.


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## mrknify

scscofield said:


> Orks and SW do not have FOC swaps either.


They do have some great formations(orks) that let then abuse nicely. The ba do have a keen formation I will look forward to abusing.


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## scscofield

Aye, it seems that the route GW is pushing for is formations and not FOC swaps, I bet they all are removed as things catch up.


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## MidnightSun

Yeah, Formations/Detachments go a long way to offset it. The best thing about the new GK book, hands down, is the Nemesis Strike Force detachment.


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## scscofield

Was there any new characters/ units added to the dex?


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## kiro the avenger!

All the hard backs are new to me 
And grey knights get termies as troops basic- so IMO they don't even have to bother with swapping, it's dont for them.
I just think that without out unique stuff such as assault marines as troops, we really Arnt that different to red 5th edition smerfs


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## scscofield

Except for all the awesome things that have been stated in this thread......


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## ntaw

^ pretty much.

I am getting my book tomorrow and will be writing up as large a post as I can about everything in it over the weekend. As a bonus, I'm also going to run a game in a GW for the first time since I was 10 (and I'm 28 now) so I'll be adding up my list and how it fared with the new rules.


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## ntaw

le double post. Pre-orders for new shiny things:

Librarian

Terminators

....and as if to drive home the point that Assault marines just ain't what they used to be:

The Angelic Host

To be honest, that looks like a respectable army.


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## scscofield

That does look like a fairy decent army even without knowing all rules


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## ntaw

Wow. Digging the book even though I got tabled (for the first time ever) in T5 against a Tau opponent. At 1000 points I ran:

Libbynaught - ML2, pyromancy

Fragioso in a Pod

2x 5 man Tacticals w/ Plasma Guns in Razorbacks with Heavy Bolters and Extra Armour

10 man Assault squad w/ 2x Flamers and 2x Hand Flamers on the sergeant

Baal Predator w/ Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolter

My biggest problem was that I deployed my Assault squad instead of Deep Striking them. The 2D6 scatter worried me too much, but damn did they bite it hard against a Riptide's 'fuck off' cannon. This also was a list I threw together after looking at the book for 10 minutes and didn't include my other two Drop Pods because I didn't bring them. Stupid.

The Rhino, Razorback, and Drop Pod are all now Fast Attack choices as well as Dedicated Transport options. 

Death Company cannot take a Land Raider as Dedicated Transport, it has to be from a Heavy Support slot.


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## mrknify

(EDITED: some off hand comments were not called for and lacked a sentient thought process)

Sanguinor, 15x Dc, dc dred, 10 sanguinor guard, 20 tactical marines.
1500 pts.
47 models. New codex.

Gone are the days of my 7 man 500 point deathstar. (Sang, 5x DC, DC dred)

My assault squad will get converted into DC with wings lol.

Main points;

DC no longer can you have a pure death company list. But jet packs WOW!

DC Dreds are elites as they should be, but I did like the last codex idea.

Sanguinary guard, +5 makes handy. Should be an upgrade for command squad, makes sence to me.

Tactical, and scouts. No brainer use to fill as needed.(edited due to poor content) 

-/+ Scouts, no sniper but you can take a lightning claw.

Bikes, who does this? No really who does this? BA are supposed to fly. I can see a chaplain on a bike cause its cool, that is all.(personal pref. )

I did like the detachment, but only one? Dissapointing. Unless you were lucky enough to get the other book. (Still available as digital for a bit more then a codex, and its good for what? 4 armys. Very cool)

Now we look at the very busy hq slots.

Point costs, some good would pay more for others if they were not moved from foc to another.

Flesh testers are not space vampires, they are space ghouls. Give them some brain candy.

Rant rant rant.
Hey they fixed our spells. Big ++ here. I picked up some with my new dex (awesome!)

Wishful thinking: I have many great ideas, but in hopes gw's psychics are tuning in I will just think them harder!

Here's a picture.









Disclaimer; previous content has been modified for content.


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## ntaw

For a positive breakdown, go here.


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## mrknify

ntaw said:


> For a positive breakdown, go here.


I recommend this!

What I failed to mention is once all the older dex's get the 7th ed treatment, they will actually be fairly balanced.

In my previous post I did not touch enough on positive points. Ntaw's writeup gives you a great picture.

Here's what i'm looking at;(with what I have)
Baal strike force formation,
Asteroth,
2x 15 DC all j-pack
2X DC Dred.
2x 5 man tac squads.
Secondary detachment;
Sanguinor, sanguinary priest w/ jpack
X10 Sanguinary guard
Furioso dred
2x 5 man tac
Baal pred
2x speeders

After spending some time in-depth with the codex the more I like it, it grows on you.

Where the ork codex was just magic(of course its predecessor was.... rough)

Looking forward to new formations, possibly a pure DC list as that's what I like to run. Miss my 500, 7 man list.

Cheers to ntaw for his well thought out review.


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## ntaw

Thanks @mrknify :drinks:

That list looks pretty tight, personally I'd drop the Sanguinor and potentially the Speeders to beef up those Tactical squads with transports and weapons. Do you play your Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods?


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## kickboxerdog

would is the army viable using drop pods I mean I got 3 unbuilt at moment just waiting the right army lol


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## ntaw

I use three pods all the time, two Fragiosos and an Assault squad/Death Company/Sternguard squad (depending on my mood), and would recommend more people do so.


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## mrknify

ntaw said:


> Thanks @mrknify :drinks:
> 
> That list looks pretty tight, personally I'd drop the Sanguinor and potentially the Speeders to beef up those Tactical squads with transports and weapons. Do you play your Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods?


Alas I have no pods, they are on my to get list. 

The speeders I have had for ages I usually do end up dropping them, their build alone will max my tac squads. 
I just need to get another sanguinary guard squad to finish the 10 man.

I came up with the concept for the list as DC and Sanguinary make great fluff lists. I agree drop pods would make the dreds so much more amazingly fast, saving the walkup blow up especially from tau.

Love the flesh tearers and really want a hard cover exterminatus book for all the nice formations.

Cheers


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## Zerodyme619

The new formations from Exterminatus look really nice. Also, a detachment, that consists only of 2HQ (1 compulsatory) and 16 elites (2 comp.) XD. If you wanna play first company, there you go. New Traits, if you use the detachments from the book aswell, Deathcompany formations, Vanguard and Sternguard in Stormraven formation. All very expensive, pointswise, but kinda fluffy and fun ^^


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## mrknify

Zerodyme619 said:


> The new formations from Exterminatus look really nice. Also, a detachment, that consists only of 2HQ (1 compulsatory) and 16 elites (2 comp.) XD. If you wanna play first company, there you go. New Traits, if you use the detachments from the book aswell, Deathcompany formations, Vanguard and Sternguard in Stormraven formation. All very expensive, pointswise, but kinda fluffy and fun ^^


Anything for pure a death company army?


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## ntaw

16 Elites choices doesn't cover you?!


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## Vaz

ntaw said:


> 16 Elites choices doesn't cover you?!


Yeah, but we're used to Formations now giving us reasons to take things outside of their entry. Get with the game. Bruh.


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## ntaw

Well shit. Guess there just aren't enough fucks for me to give, eh? Lemme see....

person complaining: fuck, I want a DC army

GW: here's a detachment where you can do that

person (still) complaining: but it isn't the way it _used_ to be :ireful2:

Just as I thought, doesn't look like I can squeeze any fucks in there. It's always worth a quick check though, you know. Just in case a position for fucks being given had become available.


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## mrknify

ntaw said:


> Well shit. Guess there just aren't enough fucks for me to give, eh? Lemme see....
> 
> person complaining: fuck, I want a DC army
> 
> GW: here's a detachment where you can do that
> 
> person (still) complaining: but it isn't the way it _used_ to be :ireful2:
> 
> Just as I thought, doesn't look like I can squeeze any fucks in there. It's always worth a quick check though, you know. Just in case a position for fucks being given had become available.


The formation with 16 elites does not allow dc.

Yes I'm a "bit" of a curmudgeon. Lol

Cheers.


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## Vaz

Multiple CADing not enough?

Techmarine = 50

Death Company Squad = 100
Death Company Squad = 100
Death Company Squad = 100

Scout Squad, Missile, Flakk = 80
Scout Squad = 55

Techmarine = 50

Death Company Squad, Inferno Pistol, Inferno Pistol = 130
Death Company Squad = 100
Death Company Squad = 100

Scout Squad, Missile, Flakk = 80
Scout Squad = 55

Comes in at 1000 pts. Not particularly brilliant, but I don't care you can optimize away as you see fit, but there's 30 FNP 5+ Relentless Bolters with 4 I5 S5 Attacks on the charge. 

Don't even need to Dual CAD; 2x 10+1x9 DC is still 540pts. Sanguinary Priest for 60, ADL with Lascannon for 85, 2x Tac Squad with Las for 180, RBack with TLLas for 85


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## mrknify

Vaz said:


> Multiple CADing not enough?
> 
> Techmarine = 50
> 
> Death Company Squad = 100
> Death Company Squad = 100
> Death Company Squad = 100
> 
> Scout Squad, Missile, Flakk = 80
> Scout Squad = 55
> 
> Techmarine = 50
> 
> Death Company Squad, Inferno Pistol, Inferno Pistol = 130
> Death Company Squad = 100
> Death Company Squad = 100
> 
> Scout Squad, Missile, Flakk = 80
> Scout Squad = 55
> 
> Comes in at 1000 pts. Not particularly brilliant, but I don't care you can optimize away as you see fit, but there's 30 FNP 5+ Relentless Bolters with 4 I5 S5 Attacks on the charge.
> 
> Don't even need to Dual CAD; 2x 10+1x9 DC is still 540pts. Sanguinary Priest for 60, ADL with Lascannon for 85, 2x Tac Squad with Las for 180, RBack with TLLas for 85


Nice list!


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## ntaw

:laugh: sorry you got caught on that post mrknify, it was indeed meant as a joke and not aimed at any one person.

That same post that commented with the 16 Elites formation (why doesn't this allow for DC?) said there was a DC formation too though, I don't have the book so I can't verify it one way or the other.


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## mrknify

Vaz said:


> Yeah, but we're used to Formations now giving us reasons to take things outside of their entry. Get with the game. Bruh.


That is a formation, the "new" box deathstorm has a great formation using dc a dc dred and terminators. Very cool, looking carefully though it is based on previous codex rules so I am not sure if it will be FAQ'd.

And yes maybe ntaw and I should have had our discussion, on a more private level. Give it another glance and you will see why it happened the way it did and why it was posted publicly. (Then have a laugh in irony)

No matter what, especially on public forums you will get people who will voice their opinion. Not always in a polite manner, there are those who help and work in a positive manner. There are others who breed negativity, we as a group of concerned Blood Angels players not always knowing what may be in a given book try to find answers. 
The answers that others may have, although the method of delivery may vary, are part of the forum sub culture.(cotour)

The last thing we need is to start a flame fest within our area and have it locked, or worse get banned.


Cheers.


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## mrknify

ntaw said:


> :laugh: sorry you got caught on that post mrknify, it was indeed meant as a joke and not aimed at any one person.
> 
> That same post that commented with the 16 Elites formation (why doesn't this allow for DC?) said there was a DC formation too though, I don't have the book so I can't verify it one way or the other.


Lol, no worrys I clued in pretty quick. I'm hoping my flgs has a copy. I've been filtering through different reviews but nothing substantial on that front.

I'm dropping my assault squads to convert to dc. Why? Love them. Also picked up the dc "dataslate" from black library, nice fluff but that's it. Really want deathstorm set, sad I no longer have a nid army though.

Still I take my enjoyment out of modding what I do have


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## Zerodyme619

So yeah, sorry for everyone that wanted to use the detachment for the Deathcompany. Since it is supposed to represent the first company, it states that all HQs must wear TerminatorArmor and you can only take Terminator squads, Assault Terminators, Vanguard, Sternguard and Furioso Dreadnoughts as elite (And no more than 6 Furiosos). The detachmend let's ALL your deepstrikers scatter only one D6! And you can reroll your Warlord trait, but you have to use the new Archangel Table from the Exterminatus book.
HOWEVER, there is indeed a DC formation:
1 Chaplain
3 DC squads
2 DC Dreadnoughts
1 Stormraven

Everything that does NOT have rampage gets +1 Attack if outnumbered, everyone gets Crusader, no restrictions. 
Hope this helps with your List building, guys 
Have a nice Weekend.


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## mrknify

Zerodyme619 said:


> So yeah, sorry for everyone that wanted to use the detachment for the Deathcompany. Since it is supposed to represent the first company, it states that all HQs must wear TerminatorArmor and you can only take Terminator squads, Assault Terminators, Vanguard, Sternguard and Furioso Dreadnoughts as elite (And no more than 6 Furiosos). The detachmend let's ALL your deepstrikers scatter only one D6! And you can reroll your Warlord trait, but you have to use the new Archangel Table from the Exterminatus book.
> HOWEVER, there is indeed a DC formation:
> 1 Chaplain
> 3 DC squads
> 2 DC Dreadnoughts
> 1 Stormraven
> 
> Everything that does NOT have rampage gets +1 Attack if outnumbered, everyone gets Crusader, no restrictions.
> Hope this helps with your List building, guys
> Have a nice Weekend.


Nice, now I just need a stormraven. I'll put that on my todo list, just after nurgle titan and nurgle drakes, possibly before plague marines.

There is some great fluff about typhus losing to tue blood angels. (Reminds me to finish my typhus also)

Oh I sent a question to the faq guys about tue sanguinor and his blood chalice. Wysiwyg says he should have it in his rules.... so hoping they either buff his dataslate or re-sculpt him.


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## ntaw

Zerodyme619 said:


> Everything that does NOT have rampage gets +1 Attack if outnumbered


By 'rampage' do you mean 'rage'? Rage is what DC typically have, gives them +2 attacks for charging instead of the typical +1. Rampage adds D3 attacks when outnumbered in combat.



mrknify said:


> Oh I sent a question to the faq guys about tue sanguinor and his blood chalice. Wysiwyg says he should have it in his rules.... so hoping they either buff his dataslate or re-sculpt him.


The chalice he holds had no significance in the last edition, why would it be any different now? As far as Priests go, they should always have had chalices as that is what gave FnP/FC and not the narthecium (or however it's spelled).


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## mrknify

ntaw said:


> The chalice he holds had no significance in the last edition, why would it be any different now? As far as Priests go, they should always have had chalices as that is what gave FnP/FC and not the narthecium (or however it's spelled).


Yeah, its like his aura.

I still feel the redundant nature of a fluff bit. Well its not as funny as scouts with lightning claws(yes you can do this now).


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## Zerodyme619

ntaw said:


> By 'rampage' do you mean 'rage'? Rage is what DC typically have, gives them +2 attacks for charging instead of the typical +1. Rampage adds D3 attacks when outnumbered in combat.
> 
> Sorry, for the late answer. No, I do not mean rage, as the rule gives you bonus attacks if you DO NOT have rampage. If it were rage, it would be useless, as all DC have rage. This rule basically gives everyone that doesn't have rampage a "rampage lite" if you will. The DC dreadnought has rampage if I am not mistaken, so it only affects the DC marines.


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## ntaw

Zerodyme619 said:


> The DC dreadnought has rampage if I am not mistaken


If it did, it doesn't any more. This rule affects everyone except if your Warlord rolls the Rampage-giving trait it seems (though I have no idea if that exists in this fancy 'Archangel' table from the Exterminatus book). More attacks for the attack god! It'd be cool if you could take Astorath instead of a Chaplain as the HQ choice for the Formation, but whatevs. I'll still be keeping a healthy amount of red armour in my army.

Thanks for the clarification :drinks:


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## mrknify

I thought asteroth was a chaplain(5th ed)
Ref http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Astorath_the_Grim


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