# Let's talk about Predators



## lordcardigan (Mar 19, 2018)

Hello everyone. 
I've been thinking a lot about predator loadouts and I thought it would be cool to have a bit of a discussion about the loadout options they have. Personally I am new and play chaos - fyi I do not have experience using predators. Though I plan to acquire one or more likely two in the near future. 
Firstly, the primary weapon, Autocannon or Twin Lascannons; I think it would very much depend on what you want to do with the tank. Lascannon being the premier anti vehicle weapon of choice whereas autocannon is more anti heavy infantry and light vehicles. The choice of main weapon seems to determine the rest of the predator loadout.
The two main kinds seem to be the annhilator or destructor loadout - 4 lascannons or autocannon + heavy bolter sponsors. However, with the split fire rules in 8E, I am curious as to what people think about, for example, an autocannon + lascannon sponsor combo? This to me seems a good idea due to the flexibility that you would get. The opposite - twin lascannons + heavy bolter sponsors - does not seem like a likewise good option, as autocannons are probably on the whole better than heavy bolters for a variety of roles.
As chaos, I'm inclined to add the havoc launchers and a combi weapon of some sort. I am inclined towards a combi-plasma for anti-heavy infantry options. What do the other options offer?

Would love peoples thoughts on this. Also, given that a landraider is almost twice as expensive as a laspredator or a fully decked out auto-predator, which is better. 1 landraider or two predators?

Keen for more experienced peoples thoughts on the subject.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

lordcardigan said:


> Hello everyone.
> Firstly, the primary weapon, Autocannon or Twin Lascannons; I think it would very much depend on what you want to do with the tank. Lascannon being the premier anti vehicle weapon of choice whereas autocannon is more anti heavy infantry and light vehicles. The choice of main weapon seems to determine the rest of the predator loadout.


Honestly both have their trade offs. The lascannon, as you point out, is better suited for anti armour given its higher AP however its rate of damage can be minimal at times. Conversely, the predator autocannon has a more consistent damage output, at the cost of shots fired per turn and a lower AP.



lordcardigan said:


> The two main kinds seem to be the annhilator or destructor loadout - 4 lascannons or autocannon + heavy bolter sponsors.


This was more the case in earlier editions, and though the triple las and auto/heavy bolter loadouts still retain their pattern titles they are interchangeable as predators.

From fourth edition onward, the auto-las predator was noted as being great for its versatility. It traded a lascannon shot in order to make the predator a bit more useful against certain elite troops or lighter monsters. Eighth edition, with the ability for a squad or vehicle to split fire its weapons across multiple targets, does indeed strengthen this versatility.



lordcardigan said:


> as autocannons are probably on the whole better than heavy bolters for a variety of roles.


This largely depends on what your shooting at. Overall though the two are fairly even, with the heavy bolter sacrificing some strength and damage output for a more consistent rate of fire. But if you are going to be putting any lascannons on your predator, then I would say your best off with las sponsons and the autocannon turret.



lordcardigan said:


> As chaos, I'm inclined to add the havoc launchers and a combi weapon of some sort. I am inclined towards a combi-plasma for anti-heavy infantry options. What do the other options offer?


Havoc launcher gives you the chance for a nice bump in extra shots, as for combi bolter I'd just say stick with the standard one. An auto-las pred is already running you 180 points, a combi plasma and havoc launcher pushes you above 200 (just taking the havoc launcher puts you at over 190 and the normal combi bolter is dirt cheap.)



lordcardigan said:


> Would love peoples thoughts on this. Also, given that a landraider is almost twice as expensive as a laspredator or a fully decked out auto-predator, which is better. 1 landraider or two predators?


While its true that land raiders are considerably more expensive than predators, you have to keep in mind what you get for that cost. In addition to more wounds, a land raiders toughness is higher, it has better armour, and can move and shoot its heavy weapons without penalty; plus it can also transport models.

A pair of predators would, mostly, come out to about the same as the single land raider, and the pair would have six more wounds and be able to pump out up to twice as many non lascannon shots. But when those predators take damage from the lascannons, their save is all but completely stripped. The land raiders armour would take a heavy hit as well, but a +5 is still a lot better than a +6.

Going by averages and statistics, the pair of predators should be able to remove 6-7 wounds from the land raider if they do not move (dropping to 4-5 if they both move.) The land raider, on the other hand, deals an average of 6-7 wounds between its weapons regardless of whether or not it moves. This means that between the two, the land raider would still be in its first profile bracket while one or both predators might drop to their second brackets.


For the cost and ability, Im a proponent of auto-las predators. But when it comes to land raiders, they are quite strong despite their cost. I've seen games where an entire army lays all of their guns into a single one to take it down, essentially leaving some 75% of your army untouched in the shooting phase.


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## lordcardigan (Mar 19, 2018)

Hey. I don't know how to direct quote or anything, so bare that in mind.

So I didn't know that auto-las was considered a common viable option. That is interesting. Especially with split fire, that would totally change perspectives on it.

You are right about the combi weapon option. 2 pts are crazy good value for a combi bolter, whereas a combi plasma makes it rather expensive for not much gain.

Your point about land raider/predator conundrum is interesting. The ability to absorb firepower and act as a big looming threat is quite important. Troop transport seems of secondary importance to me when considering the a) massive target b) heaps of wounds c) high toughness and d) psychological threat due to size and tons of firepower. Kinda a bit like the 'distraction carnifex' idea I guess.

Still debating whether 2 preds or a landraider now. Guess it depends on how everything gels within the list. But model wise, the predator is one of my favourite units.

Thanks for your wise thoughts mate


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

lordcardigan said:


> So I didn't know that auto-las was considered a common viable option. That is interesting. Especially with split fire, that would totally change perspectives on it.


Well keep in mind that prior to 8th edition, you couldnt split fire. So it was a matter of making the predator as effective as possible. Destructors were good against infantry and light armour, but throw monsters and heavy armour against them and the bullets essentially just bounced off. The opposite was true of Annihilators, their triple las shot was fairly useless against most infantry.

The auto-las provided a best of both worlds scenario, and the predator autocannon has mostly gotten better in this edition.



lordcardigan said:


> You are right about the combi weapon option. 2 pts are crazy good value for a combi bolter, whereas a combi plasma makes it rather expensive for not much gain.


It could be good on something like a rhino, which is not running you upwards of 150 points.



lordcardigan said:


> Your point about land raider/predator conundrum is interesting.
> 
> Still debating whether 2 preds or a landraider now. Guess it depends on how everything gels within the list. But model wise, the predator is one of my favourite units.


The auto-las predators can target up to 3 enemies per turn apiece(5 with a combi bolter and havoc launcher) while a land raider will only ever be able to target 3(5) per turn. Thats up to twice the spread of firepower, but comes at the cost of mobility, toughness, and overall armour.

My suggestion is why stop at the preds or the land raider, why not all three in larger games?


Also, to quote someone you just need to use quote tags: type QUOTE between the brackets, [], and then /QUOTE between brackets to finish the quote. If you want the quote to say who your quoting, all you need to do is type QUOTE=(name) and close the quote normally.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

I won't lie I'm a 40k dabbler, not an expert by any means, personally I'd run the preds either full Las or full auto/bolter, the pred is a specialist vehicle let it play to it's potential, only in small games will you really want a multi purpose preds, forget what ifs go balls deep with mission specific units


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I run two of the things with my Iron Warriors. Each has only a single autocannon and I use them to pick wounds or models off smaller squads or chip away at vehicles in tandem with my havoc squad. 

For me they're a disposable unit, one used either to be a nuisance to the opponent or to screen my more important land raider and vindicator from potential charging units. I don't give any thought to protecting them, since they're resilient enough to weather small arms fire and not likely to survive more damaging attacks anyway.


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## StartARevolution (Mar 11, 2018)

Land Raiders are well suited to moving towards an enemy/objective and firing all of its' weapons at vehicle and infantry threats, it's more worth it if you use the available troop capacity to hide vulnerable/high priority units from your opponent, especially if the opponent gets the first turn. Though consider the way the rest of your army will play in a game, because 355 points is a sizeable investment in a unit when, as people say, you can almost take 2 predators with full lascannons. 

That being said, a Land Raider is no slouch to dealing out and taking damage on the table. Another small detail to point out is that the larger size of a Land Raider can help to provide line of sight breaker to large units behind it, maybe even a predator.


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## Renegademaster (Sep 7, 2018)

I play blood angels so I tend to field the Baal predator over other patterns simply for the number of shots the twin linked assault cannons give (Also my regular opponent plays Orks and if you want to watch large squads of boys disappear in short order, point one or two Baal predator at them). When I do run a regular predator I ten to roll with the auto-cannon and las-cannon sponsors for its versatility.


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