# Possessed CSM



## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

I was wondering why nobody, that I have seen at least, uses the Possessed CSM. I personally like them more than the Terms for CSM b/c the Terms in CSM arent that different from regular CSM and have a weapon choice for less range. So why not just have Possessed?


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

DarKKKKK said:


> I was wondering why nobody, that I have seen at least, uses the Possessed CSM. I personally like them more than the Terms for CSM b/c the Terms in CSM arent that different from regular CSM and have a weapon choice for less range. So why not just have Possessed?


Er?? Did you invert the Range for the Reaper autocannon or something? Besides all their standard guns count as stationary for firing... not really sure what you're saying there.

But at any rate, here are my reasons why Possessed suck...

1. High point cost.
2. No ranged weaponry.
3. Random abilities.

I used a squad in a Rhino Rush army for fun. You know what I got? Fleet... whoopie... 

Give people the option to buy their upgrades and lower their points and then they'd be solid.


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

i have one squad of possessed i used to use but they are too random in their abilities and they just end up as meatshields anyway. plus their ranged sucks


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

In the previous codex they were a regular feature in my army but now they are simply not as good. The random ability thing means you invest a lot of points in a unit you just don't know what it can do, so hard to form a strategy around it. Better elite choices are available this edition of the codex. Shame, I really like the models!


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## nightmare12369 (Dec 21, 2007)

I still use them when i run chaos.


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## Alexander_67 (May 5, 2007)

People want reliable things. Thats why not only possessed are dropping off the map but dreads too. No one is going to take them in tournament games and no one is going to want to have to say 'oh well i lost but i would have won if my possessed hadnt got scout' 

The other things is the cost. They cost more than every troops choice, chosen, havocs, they even cost more than raptors. And raptors are a hell of alot more reliable and customisable than possessed are. 

Dont get me wrong i like possessed and find them really characterful but thats where that love stops. If i want CC troops i'll spend 5 points less and get khorne berzerkers whom i know are bitching in combat. I wont have to rely on a D6 roll for that.


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

I think they fill a much needed hole in the army - humour, or at least a little bit of interest and spontaneity.

So admittedly no tourney army lists are going to include a squad of them, but in friendly games they add a nice touch of spice. While they are not a strong enough unit on their own, due to no ranged attacks, if you deploy them in a noncommital position and then depending on what ability you roll, you keep them close to a unit that will benefit from the added rending attacks/ fast unit to keep something in place...whatever, then I feel they will have made themselves worthwhile, and made you look like a master tactician who can adapt to any....mutation.

You can always find something for them to do, and since they are a small squad of cc only models, they are most likely going to be ignored in favour of your arguable superior termies...arguably becasue if you go and roll a 6 then you have one heck of a cc squad. 

So yeah, be a bit interesting and take them regardless of their nonconformist attitude and indecisive behaviour and very high points cost...because after all...they only want some love.


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## Franki (May 7, 2008)

let me read the future and ill take possesed.....
as the other posters in this thread have said, Possesed are just to high a points cost for what they can/cant do i mean if you role somthing decent then it would be worth it to take them, in some apocalyspe games ill run them because depending on what you role theirs usually a large number of things they can do. but in a regular game Terminators or Chosen are ALOT easier to form Stratagies around they have more options and can be used to combat more threats depending on what equipment you give them. 


Franki


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

They're like a really fat chick you don't mind hanging around with, but would never take to dinner cause she's crazy and might get scout or something useless.


Also statistically, they're weaponless marines that have been enhanced by Fabius bile, and have the mark of tzeentch(chaos marine squad price:220/Possessed 240). I honestly can't fathom why a random, unrerollable skill costs us 20 points a squad after we sold off our bolters, bolt pistols, close combat weapons, special weapon choices, and aspiring champ choices.

I'd take them solely for the reason it's fun to say "Yeah, that's a squad of possessed", mostly because no one in my gaming group remembers their stats or anything.


Also to the original poster, you understand that terminators get FREE power weapons. Right? For six MEASLY points you're getting that, the awesome weapon choices, and a 2+ save. They outperform in every way possible.

Now if they had an apoc datasheet giving the possessed something worthwhile (reroll on the chart, two chart rolls, free mark of tzeentch/khorne, able to be modified by fabius bile, etc) I'd use them just for that. The models are great and the fluffiness is wonderful.


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## Trackr73 (Jun 7, 2008)

Maybe I have just been lucky but I have had alot of success from my posessed. Yesterday alone I had rending on them (Rolled a 4) in a 9000 point Apocolypse game they took down a Nid bio titan and another garguatian bug. While my tanks to include the plaguereaper were destroyed.


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## Devo (Jun 10, 2008)

I still like to use a few Possessed, that dice roll gamble of what (if anything) they'lll be useful for puts a little spice in the game and makes you think on your feet, much like usual things in Orc armies... I don't worry much about rolling badly... I save that for the Dreadnaughts...


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

I figure the secret to fielding a Chaos Dread is simple - make sure it gets closer to their guys than your guys, as quickly as possible. Not that that's precisely on-topic.

Possessed, though... now that's a whole separate can of worms. To be fair, Termies aren't superior in every way - the Possessed get an extra point of strength, and you can stick 'em in a Rhino if you've got one to spare - but they're far too unpredictable for regular use unless you're playing Apoc and don't have anything else to round out your roster. There was a very good reason they ditched the randomness in 3.5; why they brought it back I'll never know. It's not even all that fluffy - presumably the general will make it his business to know the precise capabilities of his soldiers, even if they _are_ half-daemonic.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Alexander_67 said:


> People want reliable things. Thats why not only possessed are dropping off the map but dreads too. No one is going to take them in tournament games and no one is going to want to have to say 'oh well i lost but i would have won if my possessed hadnt got scout'
> 
> The other things is the cost. They cost more than every troops choice, chosen, havocs, they even cost more than raptors. And raptors are a hell of alot more reliable and customisable than possessed are.
> 
> Dont get me wrong i like possessed and find them really characterful but thats where that love stops. If i want CC troops i'll spend 5 points less and get khorne berzerkers whom i know are bitching in combat. I wont have to rely on a D6 roll for that.


if you wnat reliable join the imperial guard, they might let you play with a lasgun, or they might send you in with a sharp stick and some prayers:taunt::taunt::taunt:


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Inquisitor Aurelius said:


> I figure the secret to fielding a Chaos Dread is simple - make sure it gets closer to their guys than your guys, as quickly as possible. Not that that's precisely on-topic.
> 
> Possessed, though... now that's a whole separate can of worms. To be fair, Termies aren't superior in every way - the Possessed get an extra point of strength, and you can stick 'em in a Rhino if you've got one to spare - but they're far too unpredictable for regular use unless you're playing Apoc and don't have anything else to round out your roster. There was a very good reason they ditched the randomness in 3.5; why they brought it back I'll never know. It's not even all that fluffy - presumably the general will make it his business to know the precise capabilities of his soldiers, even if they _are_ half-daemonic.


the randomness is part of the fun. Possessed should not bother with a rhino, as they are another of those one is too much, ten is not enough units, that is if you are going to use them, use lots of them. 15-20 per squad. the ridiculous part is, they cost about the same as a cult marines, with the added bonus of potentially having great abilities, like power weapon or rending. just like any specialist, they require TACTICS, not brute force. practice moving from cover to cover, develop the ability to acurately guess distances. Rhinos are not only unnecessary for possessed, but detrimental to them. the rhino prevents them from using the fleet, and restricts them to a 10 man squad.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

A squad full of power weapons, I'll grant you, is great. So if you roll a six, you've underpaid. But that eventuality aside, you can bet your arse that you could've bought a better squad of Chosen for the same number of points, hence the fact that most players will pass over the unit. I love the idea behind Possessed, I love the minis, and I've got a squad, but there are few circumstances under which I can see putting them to field. They cost more than any cult troops (well, until you've added the obligatory Sorcerer to the Sons), have zilch in the way of ranged capability, no equipment options, and a total lack of predictability. I like predictability. I can deal with a Dread that occasionally goes berserk and starts shooting at my own squads, a daemon weapon that tries to eat my commander from time to time - heck, even the random movement and attacks of a unit of Spawn I don't mind (you've got to admit, three T5 wounds for forty points is pretty good for a diversion). I don't use Obliterators, Defilers or non-Khornate marked units, and few enough of them. I am Captain Fluffy, effectiveness be damned. But Possessed, I just can't work with.

As an aside, you're probably right about the Rhinos; I just love the image of a squad of Possessed being disgorged from a transport that itself has Daemonic Possession :biggrin:.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

The way I see it, there are 2 things wrong with possessed. One is that you have to set up before rolling your ability, so you might not place them where they can be the most use considering their ability. Secondly no matter what you roll, the same thing could be gotten better/cheaper/more reliably using other troops. Roll scouts, I'd rather have chosen, roll furious, I'd rather have 'zerkers. Fleet - Raptors. FNP - plaguies, power weapons - termies. Rending is the only thing that I'd really be hoping for, and apparently that's getting nerfed in 5th ed. 

Personally, I'd take them if they got rending (as in the 5th ed version, so its not so strong) straight up with their rules, and then got to roll on the chart for other things (with rending and maybe power weapons replaced with other abilites). Or Maybe always get fleet, seeing as they have no shooting attacks and are useless outside of combat anyway. Or some other slight buff to make them a bit more interesting, not overpowering, just on par with other choices.

A good general can use them well, and make them work for him yes. but a good general could also do that for other units instead of them, and probably to greater effect.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

I've decided that as of right now, if I ever have 140 points left in a list, I'm taking them just so they don't collect dust and lose all those wonderful details.

I just can't fathom why they've been made worse since the last codex, FOR MORE POINTS. 

And yeah maddermax hits the nail on the head, anything less than rending or power weapons and you've got an overpriced, tzeentch-marked squad with no shooting.

I just can't understand that design choice. In the old codex possessed could hold guns unless they had rending, putting them nearly on par with the regular chaos marines. They were a 'very neat' choice. Now they're just hopelessly confused with what should be going on, and more expensive for random output.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

I love possessed I have 10 in my 1500pt list. They are good as lonas you don't get a 1 for their random ability as I did on monday God it was annoying. But yeh they are good and I prefer them to terminators.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> I've decided that as of right now, if I ever have 140 points left in a list, I'm taking them just so they don't collect dust and lose all those wonderful details.
> 
> I just can't fathom why they've been made worse since the last codex, FOR MORE POINTS.
> 
> ...


if you notice, obliterators are more points, and their stat line is basic marine with +1a,+1w,2+armor and a 5+inv., why, they were improved from 3e, and they were reasonable points cost. 

It might be because the list is to represent renegades, who would have less access to specialists like possessed or obliterators.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Indeed it might Mort, but Its one of the cases where rules drive army choices for most players. For oblits, I used to love the improved stats yeah, but everyone still takes them, why? because they are worth the cost, and they're abilities are on par, point for point, with the other heavy support classes, like havocs/preds/vindis ect. 

For possessed? I love the models, I love the chaoticness of them, but you don't see them played in armies as much as you used to because there are other choices have obvious advantages over them. Its sad, but rules driving model purchases has been going on for as long as the game has been around. They need to be put on par with the other choices, to fill a different niche from what's already there, and you'd see a huge resurgence in their popularity. Small changes are all that's necessary, but it would be good to see them back in action, warts and all.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

I'd say Obliterators are still reasonably priced (granted, this is coming from one who doesn't use them), just based on a comparison between them and Termies. And I'm not sure why Renegades should have less Possessed than the Traitor Legions, since if you've the ability to summon daemons, you can stick 'em in a host. If proximity to the Eye were a major limiting factor there then the Ordo Malleus would be based a damn sight closer to the Cadian Gate. Not that this has anything to do with anything.

[EDIT: Bugrit. That's what I get for leaving my post - Max got there first.]


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## Phenix (Jun 14, 2008)

While I agree the current cost does not match the abilites you can get, I feel that the randomness is needed. Last editions, while easy to plan for, just didnt feel the same.

Either lower cost, or Two charts: a movement/defense ability and a ranged/offense ability.


Oh, btw... chaos players complaining about radomness is hilarious. You all need to go back to your roots and play a throwback 2nd edition game sometime.... Now that's random and unpredictable! :grin:


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

In second edition I think we could choose beastmen and cultists. 
Also our squad leaders could have more than one wound...and chainswords meant something.

Hahah, actually second edition sounds pretty good.

Yesterday, for kicks in a multiplayer apocalypse game I fielded a ten-man strong squad of possessed with the icon of nurgle just for kicks. With flank march, I got furious charge and nearly wiped out two squads of hormogaunts and a carnifex. The possessed remained untouched.

But I totally agree they are overpriced, and in any competitive game they just aren't worth it unless they get rending or power weapons(one of which is being nerfed for fifth). So we'll be rolling 1/6th to get our points back.

And we don't mind randomness, like when our daemon weapon gets a random number of attacks and has a 1/6th chance to harm a single character that gets an invul save against it.

We don't mind taking psychic tests with sorcerors DEDICATED to the chaos god of MAGIC.

We mind when we have a ruleset on a unit that is overpriced to begin with(Regaurdless of ability, I'd almost always rather have chosen doing the same thing) but than we don't know what they do til AFTER we:
A)Buy the squad
B)Buy upgrades(un-upgradeable aspiring champ woo.) Also icons(for a unit that can't specialize)
C)Buy a 2/6th of the time useless rhino
D)-DEPLOY- the damn unit

Than we know what they're going to be doing that game. And 2/3rds of the time, we could have bought the corresponding cult unit instead for cheaper points and ranged attacks. IE:Furious charge/khorne, Feel no pain/Nurgle etc.

I mean honestly, if they had sat down at ANY GIVEN POINT during the production process of these rules and seriously thought about it, they'd probably begin beating the idiot who thought up the system with a chair.

Honestly, I'd just ask for a reroll on the chart if you don't like the first choice.

And last codex, THEY HAD GUNS!

GUNS AND TENTACLES!


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

Well said. That's basically what I was trying to get across with my "Captain Fluffy" post. They'd almost be worth it if you could:
A) Roll for abilities prior to deployment; and
B) Buy a reroll - like, say, if you take an AC or something.


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## Untitled401 (May 12, 2008)

When they do the new codex, they should increase the cost to 30 but give them all 6 daemonkin powers without having to roll for them and they should all be equiped with flamers as standard wargear like in the DoW games or have dual wielding CC weapons.

So for 30 points a piece, have 20 (or 2 squads of 10) with mark of Nurgle. The squad of 20 will have 60 str6 power weapon attacks on the charge with rending.:victory:


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

I'll assume you're joking, although sarcasm really doesn't work all that well in text form (I'd suggest using something humourous to clarify, such as sticking in [/sarcasm] on the end). But you've got to admit, there's a problem with the unit. They're just not cost effective. And I don't mean not quite up to par, I mean there's a huge great gaping gulf between what you're paying for and what you actually get (at least, 5/6ths of the time). Berzerkers are just plain better, and the don't take up an Elites slot either. Nothing should be better than anything else, when all factors are considered - they should just be different. That perfect balance will, of course, never happen, but it doesn't need to be nearly as far off as it is with the Possessed.

[EDIT: Filled in a half-finished sentence.]


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

pssessed are that one crap unit that could be usefull if you knew what the fuzzy blue hell they'd be good for when you deployed them. with the invul save and the base s5 i can see the points cost but the randomness of the abilities while cool hluff wise makes them overpointed for what they do


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

you just need to know how and when to use them, they can be very effective.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

BlackApostleVilhelm said:


> you just need to know how and when to use them, they can be very effective.


I don't mean to be rude. But you're simply incorrect.

I know how to use a CC-exclusive unit.

I know how to get them into CC.

And I've tried stuffing possessed in a list. I've tried every mark, every number, every setup they can take. They're EXPENSIVE as hell. For four of the spikey gits I could buy a predator. For every THREE possessed, that's one obliterator and change.

They just don't perform at any job as well as their specialist counterparts.

The possessed don't EXCEL at anything that we don't have another unit that can do it better. They cannot be customized enough to guarentee success. They make an alright annoyance with anything less than power weapons.

If you want tough, stand around blocks, plague marines are BETTER. And cheaper.

If you want charging attacks, Khorne is ALWAYS BETTER. FOUR attacks on the charge that hit at the same power as possessed, and ws5, AND they get pistols. Also they get grenades. Which possessed do NOT have.

If you want invul saves, get tzeentch. Statistically cheaper AND you get psychic powers.

I've found a solution though...at least a kind of solution. We bring Fabulous Smile and his upgraded marines, and upgrade a squad of chosen. Than the icon of tzeentch. That should keep them around for awhile and probably cost slightly less than the possessed.
Per squad of ten:
Chosen with upgrades:250
Possessed: 260

Now, ten points for a roll on the ol' daemonkin table might sound nifty, but let's see what we lose:
Bolt Gun, Bolt pistol, Frag grenade, Krak grenade, choice of FIVE CC weapons.

The only way the possessed can ever stack up point-for-point with anything else is with rule changes or things like apocalypse data sheets.



Untitled401 said:


> When they do the new codex, they should increase the cost to 30 but give them all 6 daemonkin powers without having to roll for them and they should all be equiped with flamers as standard wargear like in the DoW games or have dual wielding CC weapons.
> 
> So for 30 points a piece, have 20 (or 2 squads of 10) with mark of Nurgle. The squad of 20 will have 60 str6 power weapon attacks on the charge with rending.:victory:


Actually...it's not a bad idea to be honest, they still don't have grenades. What point cost would be fair to have all the daemonkin powers? 35? With rending being nerfed for fifth, I don't see it being a huge problem.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Gak. Double Post.


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## cynewolf (Jun 18, 2008)

*i think....*

that they are a decent unit if you don't have too many cult units or simply too many terminators. as far as the randomness goes....some of the results are useless, but if you can roll decent it goes well along with the invul. save.


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## Phenix (Jun 14, 2008)

Agree that the loss of CCW and Bolt pistol is a biggie. An AC granted re-roll would be great. Even in third edition, they had crappy choices on the chart.... but there are too many on this one. AND you got to roll twice in third Ed. 

My suggestions for changes/"house rules":

1) add Bolter and CCW (1/2 attacks, NOT 2/3)
2) Allow Re-roll on chart for 10 Pts (2nd result must be taken)
3) Allow AC to take PW or PF for standard costs
4) Replace Roll of 1 with Demonic Resillience (+1W)
5) Replace Roll of 3 change unit type to choice of Cavalry or Wings


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Honestly if that was how possessed worked, I'd take them much more often.

Probably still not as much as terminators unless 4) was applicable, but I'd certainly consider them a valued member of the 'contributing' chaos forces.


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## Phenix (Jun 14, 2008)

terminators are pretty cheap now, and I can't blame anyone for bribing them instead.

Bringing possessed is a fluffiness thing... And a luck thing as well. They were expensive and not often used in 3rd ed too, but I still liked them then too. It's important to remember that even though you only get one roll now, you also get 5 STR and a +5 inv w/o having to roll. Sure you can get FnP and FC from other ways, but these guys can be fun in their non-predictability! (just not always cost effective)

Speaking of elites, at times I am annoyed that dreadnaughts take up an elite spot now with all the great choices. :frown:


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