# Necron method of space travel



## Demon of Humanity (Aug 19, 2013)

i heard they don't use warp travel but something far better and incredibly faster


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

I actually confess I do not know what the Necrons use to travel through space? Does anyone?

I can only guess that, since they were around at the time of the Elder and the Webway's Creation, that they use a modified version of it that the C'Tan give them access to. Then again their technology to so profoundly confusing and forgiegn even to the rest of Warhammer 40k that they could just as well be using FTL.


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## Demon of Humanity (Aug 19, 2013)

My guess is that there using something akin to mass effect mass relay which reduces the mass of ships and allow for instantaneous and extremely safe method of travel distances that would take decades if not more with warp travel are done instantly with this. cept necrons don't need giant relays and every ship has em they mastered that tech. 

In mass effect the mass relay is better than FTL.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Wrong on both accounts. the main necrontyr travel method is Dolmen Gates. Which they use to hack into the webway. It was what heralded the end of the Old Ones when the necrons breached the webway.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dolmen_Gates


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

In their old guise the Necrons possessed a form of FTL called inertialess drive which operated independant of warp travel or the webway. It's one of the things that made them so horrifically powerful. 

Now though, as Brother Lucian said they use Dolmen Gates. Without which they're limited to the the slow burning torch ships using conventional drives and ironically become the slowest race in interstellar travel.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Hrm, that makes me wonder..

We know about the Emperor's secret project to breach the webway with an access point from Terra within the Imperial Palace. Wouldnt that essentially make it a Dolmen Gate too? Since he was essentially trying to hack into the system.

And we know the Emperor have faced the Cthan in the past, defeating the Dragon and banishing it to Mars. Perhaps he learnt something of their ancient secrets as well. The strange golden metal used in all his special constructions might be inspired by necrodermis.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

The Dolmen Gates were inventions of the C'tan who know everything there is to know about the physical/material realm.

The Emperor *forced *his way into a (possibly dormant Dolmen gate but given the fact that the Emperor used his psychic powers to enter the Webway and the C'tan were anti-anything warp related, it probably wasn't) breach in the Webway using his vast psychic powers via the Golden Throne.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> The Dolmen Gates were inventions of the C'tan who know everything there is to know about the physical/material realm.


Given the time frame of the War in Heaven, it seems unlikely that any c'tan would possess the knowledge necessary to hack the webway in the same way as they possess intricate knowledge of how the laws of reality work. 

More likely was that Nyadra'Zatha (the c'tan responsible) figured out how the Webway works via some other means and then was able to show the necrons how to make the Dolmen Gates work. 


What interests me is how were the necrons able to wage such a war for so long before that? Were they literally just flying from planet to planet via Torch ships and doing their best to wipe out the Old Ones as best they could? Because if this is indeed the case, we're talking potentially thousands of years before they could reach another world that was nearby by galactic standards. 

I feel like this is a hole in the fluff that needs to be sorted out. A war as such the War in Heaven is described can't really occur without both sides having some sort of FTL, and the codex makes it clear that the necrons didn't breach the webway until the closing years.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

What im saying is that the Dragon simply told the Emperor about the Dolmen Gates, learning about the webway and setting out to replicate their feat of travelling the network to avoid dependence on warp travel.

It wouldnt strike me as farfetched that those 2 powerful beings made an awful deal. In exchange for the knowledge of the ancients. The Emperor would move the dragon to Mars, so it might influence the civilization that would come to grow there as he had foreseen. The dragon getting them as its playthings for a brief cooperation with him.

The dragon, or at least a major shard of it would need time to grow and mature, happilly suckling up the cast off life from the mechanicum adepts as they strove to become closer to their cold ideal.


Edit: Regarding the War in the Heaven. Its easy enough to explain. The full power Cthan would litterally be pushing the necron ships across the universe in the blink of an eye. But after their rebellion, using the Dolmen gates was the only 'reliable' method of transportation they had left. Now that the Cthan's power had been broken.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I'm not so sure about the c'tan being directly responsible for the necron's pre-Dolmen FTL ability. 

Given the necrontyr developed mastery over pocket dimensions and stranger technologies long before they found the c'tan, it strikes me that if there was a way to develop FTL tech, they would have. I'm not convinced that c'tan have the ability to traverse the galaxy in the blink of an eye when they themselves were dependent on solar winds to travel between stars. 

More likely is that Inertialess Drive is simply retconned.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> Given the time frame of the War in Heaven, it seems unlikely that any c'tan would possess the knowledge necessary to hack the webway in the same way as they possess intricate knowledge of how the laws of reality work.
> 
> More likely was that Nyadra'Zatha (the c'tan responsible) figured out how the Webway works via some other means and then was able to show the necrons how to make the Dolmen Gates work.
> 
> ...


Didn't it say they had faster than light travel in the previous codex prior to their revision?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Didn't it say they had faster than light travel in the previous codex prior to their revision?


Yes, but the current codex has removed that and specified that without their Dolmen Gates they would be forced to rely on slow moving Torch ships instead.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

I figured. So it's like you said then, it's a lore hole that needs rectifying.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> What interests me is how were the necrons able to wage such a war for so long before that? Were they literally just flying from planet to planet via Torch ships and doing their best to wipe out the Old Ones as best they could? Because if this is indeed the case, we're talking potentially thousands of years before they could reach another world that was nearby by galactic standards.
> 
> I feel like this is a hole in the fluff that needs to be sorted out. A war as such the War in Heaven is described can't really occur without both sides having some sort of FTL, and the codex makes it clear that the necrons didn't breach the webway until the closing years.


I think it's safe to say the Necrontyr/Necrons utilised an effective method of FTL travel prior to Nyadra'zatha teaching them how to access the webway with Dolmen Gates. Otherwise, as you say, they would have relied on their Torch Ships and wouldn't have even been able to remotely challenge the dominance of the Old Ones and launch the War in Heaven. 

The question is then: what happened to this method of FTL travel so that the Necrons now utterly rely on the Dolmen Gates? The only thing I can conceive of is that the technology was lost (perhaps during the Silent King's uprising against the C'tan), although this is tenuous given the Necrons still maintain the most advanced technology in the known galaxy and haven't otherwise shown examples of losing technology. Other than that, it's anyone's guess.

Personally, I've always assumed it was a lore oversight.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The question is then: what happened to this method of FTL travel so that the Necrons now utterly rely on the Dolmen Gates? The only thing I can conceive of is that the technology was lost (perhaps during the Silent King's uprising against the C'tan), although this is tenuous given the Necrons still maintain the most advanced technology in the known galaxy and haven't otherwise shown examples of losing technology. Other than that, it's anyone's guess.


It is heavily hinted that the necrons are a dying race. Having lost all ability to propagate, every necron that is lost is a blow that can't be recovered from. However there is no indication either way as to the state of their technological stability. 

The fact that they fear the loss of c'tan shards seems to suggest that they may not have the ability to re-capture them anymore, and it is unclear on just how much of a threat these escaped/destroyed shards are without a necrodermis shell. Lore from the Apocalypse book suggests that destroyed c'tan shards are re-claimed by their parent deity, but makes no further reference. Given that the more expanded lore of 40k makes no reference to these beings, it seems that as with the old lore their ability is limited without the necrodermis that the necrons provide. 

Which leads me to ask why do the necrons keep them intact at all? I feel this is another oversight, unless there is a yet to be released fragment of lore that might tie this up.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

However, it's very hard to "lose" a Necron. You can destroy his biometallic shell, but his "real" conciousness just downloads to another one, and returns. They are neither dying nor growing. All that they have is it. Other than the AI that's replicating into Biometallic shells. He can grow forever.


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## Demon of Humanity (Aug 19, 2013)

So in retrospect before ctan taught em how to use the webway to fuck over the old ones they perhaps used something akin to mass effect mass relay there inertial drive cept no giant relay necessary. Sure mass travel allows you easy and fast transportation bu the you can't hide in it unlike th web way.

when they discovered how webway works it seemed they wanted to play the old ones and eldar a bad joke as in saying we can use your webway you are screwed now no more places to hide. and yes the old ones after webway was breached were seriously fucked same way the eldars will be if anyone breaches there precious webway


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

There are three things to say about this, Demon.

1) The C'tan were in control, what they said, went. And yes, they were more interested in disrupting the webway for their enemies the Eldar instead of caring for the race they tricked into leaving their bodies.

2) We don't know what the Inertial Drives did, or how much power they take/took. It's very possible the designs are still known to the Necrons, but they need something like a captive star to power them, and the 'crons don't generate power like that. The C'tan certainly could.

3) Domen Gates are easy and efficient to use. And, bear in mind, some Necrontyr are starting to deal with the younger races, and build hybrid empires. They MAY have warp travel through them. And, maybe they can discover a way to do warp travel without a Psyker, especially if they capture Tau Semi-Warp drives.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I think it's safe to say the Necrontyr/Necrons utilised an effective method of FTL travel prior to Nyadra'zatha teaching them how to access the webway with Dolmen Gates. Otherwise, as you say, they would have relied on their Torch Ships and wouldn't have even been able to remotely challenge the dominance of the Old Ones and launch the War in Heaven.
> 
> The question is then: what happened to this method of FTL travel so that the Necrons now utterly rely on the Dolmen Gates? The only thing I can conceive of is that the technology was lost (perhaps during the Silent King's uprising against the C'tan), although this is tenuous given the Necrons still maintain the most advanced technology in the known galaxy and haven't otherwise shown examples of losing technology. Other than that, it's anyone's guess.
> 
> Personally, I've always assumed it was a lore oversight.


The Necrons have a pretty good idea what's out there for enemies to face. Perhaps their ships still have the FTL drive's but they choose not to use them because the longer it takes to reach a planet the more the competition fights itself.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Creon said:


> However, it's very hard to "lose" a Necron. You can destroy his biometallic shell, but his "real" conciousness just downloads to another one, and returns. They are neither dying nor growing. All that they have is it. Other than the AI that's replicating into Biometallic shells. He can grow forever.


It is actually quite easy to "lose" a necron. If enough damage occurs to the Tomb World's backup systems, or something disrupts the phase out protocols, that necron is gone. And this can happen to the best of necrons, be they a simple immortal or a phaeron. 

This is before you consider the somewhat feudal nature of necron politics, where many a lord will happily engineer the permanent death of a rival in order to gain a stronger power hold for himself. Even crypteks, normally responsible for maintenance of such systems are not above making accidents happen should they feel slighted by their clients. 



Creon said:


> 2) We don't know what the Inertial Drives did, or how much power they take/took. It's very possible the designs are still known to the Necrons, but they need something like a captive star to power them, and the 'crons don't generate power like that. The C'tan certainly could.


The necrons are still quite capable of draining and weaponizing or otherwise utilizing the energy from stars. Even their resurrection orb technology is basically a miniaturized star in a bottle. 



Creon said:


> 3) Domen Gates are easy and efficient to use. And, bear in mind, some Necrontyr are starting to deal with the younger races, and build hybrid empires. They MAY have warp travel through them. And, maybe they can discover a way to do warp travel without a Psyker, especially if they capture Tau Semi-Warp drives.


Tau warp travel is unsuitable for large scale galactic travel. Nor does it account for what the necrons used before the dolmen gates. 



Reaper45 said:


> The Necrons have a pretty good idea what's out there for enemies to face. Perhaps their ships still have the FTL drive's but they choose not to use them because the longer it takes to reach a planet the more the competition fights itself.


But the codex states specifically that they rely on the Dolmen Gates, and would be forced to use slow moving stasis ships without them.



Something that has just occurred to me is gravity. The Imperium and eldar both use gravity tech, which makes me inclined to think the necrons could use it as well. And we know that the tyranids are also able to manipulate gravity as well by creating steep gravity wells around a planet's gravity field in order to travel FTL. This strikes me as something the necrons should easily be capable of as well. :scratchhead:


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Serpion5 said:


> But the codex states specifically that they rely on the Dolmen Gates, and would be forced to use slow moving stasis ships without them.


The codex says allot of things however it also creates allot of plot holes that don't make sense. The entire war in heaven would have been a curb stomp if they relied only on torch ships. Think about the distances between stars. Roughly 31 trillion kilometers.
Assuming the necrons had extremely powerful torch ships and inertial dampeners you're still talking about years to get anywhere. The one ones must have been idiots if they screwed up a war that bad to lose to them.


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## Scrad (Apr 4, 2014)

It seems like the Necrons have the weakest link of all races in regards to info on their space travel. Or at least the weakest ideas that can be assumed from it.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Reaper45 said:


> The one ones must have been idiots if they screwed up a war that bad to lose to them.


To be fair to the Old Ones, they didn't actually screw up. Their tech was always less advanced, but the Webway gave them far greater maneuverability than the necrons. It was when the necrons breached the webway that their Empire fell apart. 

I suppose it is possible that this is literally how it went. The necrons and c'tan traveled slowly, exterminated all they came across, but the Old Ones were always able to swiftly flee and rebuild via the Webway. With both races being effectively immortal it does fit within the realms of possibility, even if it does sound a little duller than the rapid looking several page summary we get in the codex.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> The codex says allot of things however it also creates allot of plot holes that don't make sense. The entire war in heaven would have been a curb stomp if they relied only on torch ships. Think about the distances between stars. Roughly 31 trillion kilometers.


But the codex doesn't claim they fought the War in Heaven with the torch ships. It just states that without the Dolmen Gates the Necrons would completely rely on the torch ships, leaving us to deduce that they must have had some other method of FTL travel prior to them learning of the Dolmen Gates. 



Serpion5 said:


> I suppose it is possible that this is literally how it went. The necrons and c'tan traveled slowly, exterminated all they came across, but the Old Ones were always able to swiftly flee and rebuild via the Webway. With both races being effectively immortal it does fit within the realms of possibility, even if it does sound a little duller than the rapid looking several page summary we get in the codex.


Maybe. But their other technological feats (eg. non-warp teleportation) must surely suggest they achieved FTL travel. It would be odd for the Necrons to possess technology that can snuff out any star in the galaxy with a wave of the hand and yet rely on torch ships as their fastest method of star travel (aside from the Dolmen gates obviously).


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Maybe. But their other technological feats (eg. non-warp teleportation) must surely suggest they achieved FTL travel.


Without knowing how that technology works, we can't really say for sure. It could require pre-established beacons for all we know, which would still mean the necrons have to travel manually between destinations before teleportation can be achieved. The technology of Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs drawing Flayed Ones seems to suggest something along those lines. 

Interestingly, the Flayed Ones seem able to travel where they please by using pocket dimensions apparently unknown or unused by the other necrons. I wonder if this ties in at all?


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

The necron Deathmarks also travels through different dimensions.

But looking at the various necron dynasties, they all weathered the great sleep in different conditions. Some had nearly no trouble, others suffered from the ravages of time, alien raiders or even internal sabotage. Such as the jealous cryptek conning all of the leadership of his tombworld to sleep together, in a location he knew would be tectonically unstable. Wiping them all out and leaving him the sole major necron commander remaining upon awakening.

So it stands to reason that not every tombworld/dynasty is able to call upon the full range of their ancient technologies. Thusly nesseciting a reliance upon Dolmen Gates as a stopgap measure as they try to fully revive and piece together the remains of their realm. Especially when thinking about that it could take centuries for a tombworld to shake off ressurection lethargy.


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## Demon of Humanity (Aug 19, 2013)

Serpion5 said:


> To be fair to the Old Ones, they didn't actually screw up. Their tech was always less advanced, but the Webway gave them far greater maneuverability than the necrons. It was when the necrons breached the webway that their Empire fell apart.
> 
> I suppose it is possible that this is literally how it went. The necrons and c'tan traveled slowly, exterminated all they came across, but the Old Ones were always able to swiftly flee and rebuild via the Webway. With both races being effectively immortal it does fit within the realms of possibility, even if it does sound a little duller than the rapid looking several page summary we get in the codex.


agreed in terms of science the old ones weren't that good due to over dependance of psychic warp power. It seems the old ones power came mostly from the warp.

While necrons seem to have mastered every branch of science known before the fragmentation of there empire due lack of psi magic even when they were flesh.

my friend said it best with an eldar comparison they weren't good at hard science but were monsters at magi tek. while the crons were scientific monsters before there empire fragmentation.

(god does anyone miss the near unstoppable silent killing machines necrons used to be they go to your world in instants and nuke it)


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> But the codex doesn't claim they fought the War in Heaven with the torch ships. It just states that without the Dolmen Gates the Necrons would completely rely on the torch ships, leaving us to deduce that they must have had some other method of FTL travel prior to them learning of the Dolmen Gates.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe. But their other technological feats (eg. non-warp teleportation) must surely suggest they achieved FTL travel. It would be odd for the Necrons to possess technology that can snuff out any star in the galaxy with a wave of the hand and yet rely on torch ships as their fastest method of star travel (aside from the Dolmen gates obviously).


I think we're both on agreement on that fact.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Brother Lucian said:


> conning all of the leadership of his tombworld to sleep together


Ultimate wingman



Demon of Humanity said:


> god does anyone miss the near unstoppable silent killing machines necrons used to be they go to your world in instants and nuke it


You mean Necrons with the Destroyer Virus, or the Maynarkh Dynasty, or the Court of Valghul?


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## Demon of Humanity (Aug 19, 2013)

MidnightSun said:


> Ultimate wingman
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Necrons with the Destroyer Virus, or the Maynarkh Dynasty, or the Court of Valghul?


as in when they were a united and very scary force not them playing the game of thrones


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Personally I think they have far more character now that they arent a faceless horde of metal skeletons from a single ultra monolithic culture.

As well giving reason for necrons clashing against necrons. The dynasties warring against each other for supremacy.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Demon of Humanity said:


> It seems the old ones power came mostly from the warp.
> 
> While necrons seem to have mastered every branch of science known before the fragmentation of there empire due lack of psi magic even when they were flesh.


I would argue that Necrons don't seem to have really mastered the biological sciences. While they created insane 'organic' metal and infuse their own conciousnesses into the metal, they still were't able to biologically extend their own lives in any significant way. In addition, if they had the biological know-how, they could avoid most of their fighting by just dropping a nasty virus on a planet and clean up afterwards, a la Nurgle.

I haven't seen anything that indicates the Old Ones were near-immortal, like their creations the Eldar, due to the Warp. On the other hand, they seem to have no problem actually creating new and different species that are amazingly advanced/complex.


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## Demon of Humanity (Aug 19, 2013)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> I would argue that Necrons don't seem to have really mastered the biological sciences. While they created insane 'organic' metal and infuse their own conciousnesses into the metal, they still were't able to biologically extend their own lives in any significant way. In addition, if they had the biological know-how, they could avoid most of their fighting by just dropping a nasty virus on a planet and clean up afterwards, a la Nurgle.
> 
> I haven't seen anything that indicates the Old Ones were near-immortal, like their creations the Eldar, due to the Warp. On the other hand, they seem to have no problem actually creating new and different species that are amazingly advanced/complex.


I agree they mastered the mechanical sciences but didn't do the bio bits so well my guess bio science would require having some degree flesh to help themselves in that department there is no necronthyr dna in existence anymore so helping themselves like that is out of the question.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> I haven't seen anything that indicates the Old Ones were near-immortal, like their creations the Eldar, due to the Warp. On the other hand, they seem to have no problem actually creating new and different species that are amazingly advanced/complex.


Older, long standing lore has always painted the Old Ones as being nigh immortal, and nothing has retconned that yet. It was indeed for this very reason that the necrontyr originally went to war with them. The necrontyr were a short lived species, and begged the Old Ones to help them when they couldn't solve their mortality crisis themselves. 

For whatever reason, the Old Ones refused, and so war was had.


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