# GW and the ROW Embargo



## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

I know this has been discussed previously but this topic if it goes ahead will throw GW embargo in complete disarray.

Just heard on the News today 10.00pm Eastern Australian Daylight Saving Time that 100,000+ signatures have been lodged with the British Government, and that both British houses of Parliament (House of Commons and House of Lords) will now have to debate to approve a refferendum in which Britian is to withdraw from both the European Union and European Ecconomic Commission.

If this is approved, and the refferendum gets up this mans that Britian will no longer be an EU and EEC member, this has rammifications on GW world wide embargo, this will make its embargo illegal as it's current contracts to Europe could become null and void.

We can only hope, the refferendum gets up.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Not gonna happen, PM ruled it out


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Damn so much for cheap gw


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Mainly because they know most Brits are too moronic to care or know whats going to happen.

I hope we do get away from the EU personally since hopefully we would no longer be under such stupid terms as put to us. Like the recent clever idea that Britain (which has little money after its own debt crisis, bailing out several other countries must now open its borders to more immigrants who must immeadiately get access to benefits that are paid by us the normak british people.

I am not a racist but I think this country has enough immigrants who do not speak English in this country whilst claiming benefits from the hard working English people. Then as an added bonus if they commit crimes against British people we cannot deport them because that would infinge their "human rights".

I apologise full heartedly if I have accidentally infringed any forum rules about not posting political discussions in the wrong place.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Oh poop.


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

I'm positively against GW's ROW policy. It's IMHO idiotic at best.

That being said, I don't think we should judge/approve/disapprove of a continental economic policy on the basis of getting 10-20% of some plastic toys 

Phil


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Personally, its stupid to even suggest that Britain would pull out of the EU and its markets. Frankly its moronic and would cost the country too much.... 

However, we should pull out of it politically. We get too many stupid rules and regulations from Brussels that really screw us over and it seems the rest of the EU don't bother to take notice of.


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## AlexHolker (Apr 27, 2011)

If this had happened, I'd expect the embargo to get worse, not better. It would not mean the RoW embargo became illegal, it would mean that GW could now embargo continental Europe.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Stephen_Newman said:


> I am a xenophobe and I think this country has enough immigrants who do not speak English in this country whilst claiming benefits from the hard working English people, although I have never researched nor have any knowledge of the issue regard benefit claims for immigrants I'm pretty sure I'm right.


Whoops you typo'd, let me fix that for you.


UK won't pull out of the EU as Germany and France are our most important trading partners.


*Whoops you took some one else's post, quoted it with no context and changed some of the words anyhoo.
Let Viscount Vash fix that for you.*



Stephen_Newman said:


> I am not a racist but I think this country has enough immigrants who do not speak English in this country whilst claiming benefits from the hard working English people. Then as an added bonus if they commit crimes against British people we cannot deport them because that would infinge their "human rights".


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

If this thread stays on the track of it effecting GW sales policy it can stay in here unless the Area Mods want it moved.

If it becomes a more general discussion on UK and EU policy/integration it will be moved to Off Topic.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Perhaps if 100,000 people signed a pettition to force GW to give away everything for free, that might make everyone happier??


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## Admiral_HACKbar (May 5, 2011)

...Well I am curious to see the GW sales report next year. I just can't afford aussie prices and just stopped buying. I wonder how many other Oz people are in the same boat.


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## lucifer_hawk (Jun 23, 2011)

Admiral_HACKbar said:


> ...Well I am curious to see the GW sales report next year. I just can't afford aussie prices and just stopped buying. I wonder how many other Oz people are in the same boat.


Ahoy matey, yep in the same boat. 
GW isnt the only major company to whine about internet sales hurting the bottom line; David Jones, etc have all publicly complained; I can understand their POV. 

However what I do take umbrdige to is their massive mark-up on their kits..AND (I have been in this hobby for a long time) they have been criticized for price-gouging since White Dwarf issue 16!!! thats a looooong time ago....

So i was planning to get back into 40k, sold my minis years ago, now I have a 500 pt Space marine army and thats where its going to stay...untill I save for a few months anyway-OR talk my Dutch relatives into helping me paralell import GW stuff via Wayland.

Loki


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Silly GW they will never learn. 

sadly though l now have to use ebay to buy my guys, and trying to find unopen new guys can be a pain.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Admiral_HACKbar said:


> ...Well I am curious to see the GW sales report next year. I just can't afford aussie prices and just stopped buying. I wonder how many other Oz people are in the same boat.


The Financial spreadsheet will be the kicker for GW Aus, as to whether or not Aussie buyers continued to buy retail or not in strong numbers, or at least bought from Aussie-based online Stores/LGS's who offered discounts.

Me, I haven't spent a penny since the embargo hit, and I know dozens of others who have done like-wise...PP picked up a lot of sales dollars that were heading GW's way, but a line was crossed that was the proverbial straw that broke you know what.

Time will tell.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I stopped buying from gw as well. All my purchases have been either non gw purchases substituted for gw models, ebay purchases of oop gw models or bits buys via ebay. None of that goes to gw aus.


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## Me-dea (Mar 10, 2010)

Could somebody please tell me what is GW world wide embargo?
Sorry for being dumb girl he he .


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

slaaneshy said:


> Perhaps if 100,000 people signed a pettition to force GW to give away everything for free, that might make everyone happier??


Don't be stupid, people would just moan more about the quality of the miniatures, or having to leave the house to pick up the huge parcels of free booty from GW mail order. 

Then they'd complain about the packaging and how, if it was made up of individual parcels rather than one huge box, they could fit through letter boxes.

Once this had all been ironed out, they'd then complain about the amount of waste the packaging made, and how everyone should stop buying GW because they're bad for the environment. GW then package models individually in large plastic parcels which fold out into a 1:1 scale Imperial Palace in high detail.

People then complain that it shows favoritism to the Imperium and start petitioning for a life size Eye of Terra, Necron pyramidy ruins thing, Hive ship, ork rok, Tau... something or other, Demonic realm, craftworld and dark eldar S&M chamber.

GW, while trying to soothe people's anger accidentily create a real hive ship, eye of terror, etc, releasing hordes of evil. The Imperium come to save us. Forced labour occurs around the globe as all our resources are sent to the war effort. People complain about it, and are executed as heretics, traitors and irritating naysayers. 

Mankind is enslaved and GW products hailed as some sort of psychic premonition, all are banned and burned in a huge pyre. Those caught weeping about the pyre are executed as heretics. No one has any time to play as they're working 22 hour days and spending the other two hours walking two and form work.

How many times have we seen this story happen? This is why GW stuff should never be free.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

HOBO said:


> Me, I haven't spent a penny since the embargo hit, and I know dozens of others who have done like-wise...PP picked up a lot of sales dollars that were heading GW's way, but a line was crossed that was the proverbial straw that broke you know what.


Me and at least 4 others are in the same boat. 

Let us hope that Tony Abbott does not discover our boat.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Me and at least 4 others are in the same boat.
> 
> Let us hope that Tony Abbott does not discover our boat.


Hahahaa...Amen to that brother:biggrin:


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

slaaneshy said:


> Perhaps if 100,000 people signed a pettition to force GW to give away everything for free, that might make everyone happier??





Grins1878 said:


> Don't be stupid.... This is why GW stuff should never be free.


Excellent injections of humour.

More seriously, I agree with AlexHolker that without the EU drive toward an open market it would be more likely to increase non-UK restrictions than reduce them.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Is it in april or may that the fiscal year ends and the yearly report comes out? Personally I'm expecting to see another 10-20% drop in the Australian market. Other than this I think everything will pretty much be the same with the yearly price increase of 0-27% depending on model.


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## Admiral_HACKbar (May 5, 2011)

slaaneshy said:


> Perhaps if 100,000 people signed a pettition to force GW to give away everything for free, that might make everyone happier??


Perhaps is they just didn't charge double in Oz?

Happy to pay more, not double.


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Admiral_HACKbar said:


> Perhaps is they just didn't charge double in Oz?
> 
> Happy to pay more, not double.


Don't open that can of worm! You'll be told that since everything costs double in Oz, so should GW products (even though every notion of international economy says the contrary).

If GW just abandonned the foolish notion of GW owned stores, then they wouldn't have to pay double what they pay for employees, rent, etc. The thing is, I'm pretty sure fixed costs (rent/wages/electricity/etc) don't account for more than 30% of the total cost (I made the whole exercice in a previous thread after sifting through the the yearly report...). So if the merchandise costs accounts for 70% and is total made outside you country, it shouldn't cost you double.

They only caveat to this is import taxes. If Oz really imposes a 20/30/40% tax on toy imports (which would be very surprising, but not impossible), then that might explain paying double.

Phil


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## Durant (Aug 24, 2011)

Me-dea said:


> Could somebody please tell me what is GW world wide embargo?
> Sorry for being dumb girl he he .





> In late 2009 Games Workshop issued a spate of _Cease and desist_ orders against various internet sites it accused of violating its _Intellectual property_. The reaction amongst the fan community was generally anger and disappointment as many of the sites receiving orders were seen to be ones which had supported various Games Workshop games during periods where the company itself was not supporting or selling them.
> On the 16th of May 2011 Maelstrom Games announced that Games Workshop had revised the terms and conditions of their trade agreement with independent stockists in the UK.The new terms and conditions restrict the sale of all Games Workshop products to within the European Union, Norway and Switzerland.


Hope this helps, I had no clue either so looked it up :so_happy:


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

boreas said:


> If GW just abandonned the foolish notion of GW owned stores, then they wouldn't have to pay double what they pay for employees, rent, etc.


Bricks and Mortar stores are not foolish it's where GW makes it's money. GW is a toy company that sells toys to children, yes adults buy them as well but primarily toys to children. The stores are key to this strategy as kids can drag their parents in, see the games, see the toys and engage pester mode. GW are not a massively successful wargaming company because they have foolish notions of GW stores.


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Aramoro said:


> Bricks and Mortar stores are not foolish it's where GW makes it's money. GW is a toy company that sells toys to children, yes adults buy them as well but primarily toys to children. The stores are key to this strategy as kids can drag their parents in, see the games, see the toys and engage pester mode. GW are not a massively successful wargaming company because they have foolish notions of GW stores.


It's foolish if people stop going there because of prices. If I remember correctly, this notion of GW store is pretty new in the long GW history. Here in Montreal, the two stores are less thatn 10 years old.

Phil


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

boreas said:


> It's foolish if people stop going there because of prices. If I remember correctly, this notion of GW store is pretty new in the long GW history. Here in Montreal, the two stores are less thatn 10 years old.
> 
> Phil


Games Workshop was founded in 1975 and opened it's first retail store in 1978. GW has always focused on using bricks and mortar stores as the 'in' to allow people to pick up the hobby. 

Whilst the cost does matter in some respects it doesn't in others, they have a high street monopoly on wargaming and the main consumers of the products are not the people paying for it. The other group of people who buy a lot of product are your 30 year old men, they have high disposable income so again the cost is not a massive factor. I mean sure they'll complain a lot as they get their new Thundertusk rung up at the till but they still bought one.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

GW announce through its international sales that GW sales in the Australian Market were down in the 2010-2011 ficsal year by 11%. It is expected that the 2011-2012 fiscal year that a drop in GW Australia sales in the range of 15%.

Main factor in this are GW Australian prices across the board of an 87.5% mark up against comparitive international prices.

If this does play out means that within 2 years GW Australia will see sales losses of +26%.

The effect on local gaming is beginning to filter through, in my local area GW games venues has collapsed from 4 to 1 within 12 months.

The point is that folks are avoiding the Bricks and Mortar stores and are buying off internet sites like EBay, I am one of those individuals, and i have saved a lot of money.

ROW embargo has what i have seen and some of the punters i have spoken to has been an abject failure as those puntes have found reliable vendors to sell them vastly cheaper GW products than they can purchase off the GW or LGS shelves, some of the stores in my area are seriously restricting or dumping GW product once their contracts run out and come up for renewal.


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

My point is that for the last 25 years, most if not all the sales in Canada was made through FLGS and (later on) web store. From my experience (I used to work near one), GW stores are always empty.

It might be that in the UK, or possibly EU, GW store might work because the price difference is not much more. But in Canada and Oz, GW is shoving this model down customer's throats and it's not working (hence the sales loss in the last report). I predict that Oz sales (and to a lesser degree Canadian sales, if it's possible to access them as they might be merged into NA sales) will continue plumetting in the next report, proving that this model is bad.

Also, don't forget that the sheer density of sales (ie customers per square kilometers) is much, much lower here than in Europe. That's why FLGS (that cater to more type of geeks) don't lose money because the same store/rent/wages are used towards multiple games (actually, pokemon/M:TG and other card games are the bread and butter that allow those FLGS to survive and still hold GW/miniature wargaming products).

Phil


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

Here in Brazil it's about the same. My half-finished second army (Dark Elder) is just as half-finished noe as it was when the embargo hit. I often think about selling it, but feel bad for the buyer. 

OTOH, me and my gaming club have been delivered swiftly into the arms of Infinity. I still like 40k best, but Infinity allows me to get stuff at amelstrom with free shipping and kickass sales, vouchers and buyback. It's like they want to, you know, KEEP my business!

Plus, if I squint real hard, I can pretend ALEPH's Achilles is Kharn the Betrayer. Sometimes.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

boreas said:


> My point is that for the last 25 years, most if not all the sales in Canada was made through FLGS and (later on) web store. From my experience (I used to work near one), GW stores are always empty.
> 
> It might be that in the UK, or possibly EU, GW store might work because the price difference is not much more. But in Canada and Oz, GW is shoving this model down customer's throats and it's not working (hence the sales loss in the last report). I predict that Oz sales (and to a lesser degree Canadian sales, if it's possible to access them as they might be merged into NA sales) will continue plumetting in the next report, proving that this model is bad.
> 
> ...


sorry but i would have to disagree, if a store in any part of the world lost money year on year they would close it, regardless of were it was located, it might pop up elsewhere in the city with cheaper rents but GW dont support dead weight in any territory,also i dont for one second believe they over charge people in territories like Canada or OZ just for spite or the sake of it, i admit it sucks the prices your expected to pay, but i firmly believe those prices are set at that price for the sole reason of keeping the stores in those places open and at the very least breaking even and clearly the ability for none EU based customers to purchase from the UK at a significant discount was a major concern for the company's ability to keep its stores and FLGS viable outside of the EU.

the GW business model does work, we may not like it we may not agree with it and it may seem pointless if your expected to pay for a store you never use, but we dont get to choose how they do business.


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## lucifer_hawk (Jun 23, 2011)

It's just so frustrating! They say they don't want to sell cheaper so the sales don't hurt their shop sales...there's only about 4 GW shops in au! Our population is very spread out and have a high internet usage %..so internet sales are obviously the way to go. Nah I'm sticking to ebay.


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## Kettu (Nov 20, 2007)

bitsandkits said:


> but i firmly believe those prices are set at that price for the sole reason of keeping the stores in those places open and at the very least breaking even


I've been keeping mostly up to date with the Aus pricing saga and something interesting is that all the prices, not just GW but everything, made sense when the Aus dollar was at it's lowest but since then it's gotten better but no one is lowering prices to match. No one, not the Banks, or Businesses.

Now, after Harvey Norman, David Jones and the like made a massive ruckus about losing customers to cheaper internet shopping, and promptly had their entire campaign for internet-purchase taxes hit a dead end when all the journalists started to air their dirty laundry. _(Sweatshops and Illegal Immigrant workers were just the start)_ The Government took notice. 

They started an investigation, finding out that prices on many things should in fact drop by about 40% to 60%.
So then they started another investigation, this is tasked with finding who and where along the chain is the Strong Aussie dollar being ignored and if it's changed to match the current world financial climate, what will happen.

They should have their results in by December and with any luck, Australia will be basically giving GW the middle finger early next year. GW will simply lack any justification for their prices and they'll have to adjust like everyone else.
Still not as cheap as UK and Europe but certainly a vast improvement on things.

Mind you, this would ultimately be the BEST case scenario. Turns out the Australian Government is kinda anathemic to them.


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

bitsandkits said:


> i dont for one second believe they over charge people in territories like Canada or OZ just for spite or the sake of it, i admit it sucks the prices your expected to pay, but i firmly believe those prices are set at that price for the sole reason of keeping the stores in those places open and at the very least breaking even and clearly the ability for none EU based customers to purchase from the UK at a significant discount was a major concern for the company's ability to keep its stores and FLGS viable outside of the EU.
> 
> the GW business model does work, we may not like it we may not agree with it and it may seem pointless if your expected to pay for a store you never use, but we dont get to choose how they do business.


The thing is... no. GW model's doesn't work in Oz or Canada, and the losses and falling sales are, in itself, proof of it. Now, they are trying to patch things up rather than change the model, because closing stores would mean they lose face with the investors, and thus lose share value (which mean huge money loss for the GW administrators.).

I don't pay for stores I don't use, all things considered, I pay for the CEO's bonus. Now, I might not get to choose their business model, but I can certainly not adhere to it and keep buying from outside Canada...

Phil


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> sorry but i would have to disagree, if a store in any part of the world lost money year on year they would close it, regardless of were it was located, it might pop up elsewhere in the city with cheaper rents but GW dont support dead weight in any territory,also i dont for one second believe they over charge people in territories like Canada or OZ just for spite or the sake of it, i admit it sucks the prices your expected to pay, but i firmly believe those prices are set at that price for the sole reason of keeping the stores in those places open and at the very least breaking even and clearly the ability for none EU based customers to purchase from the UK at a significant discount was a major concern for the company's ability to keep its stores and FLGS viable outside of the EU.
> 
> the GW business model does work, we may not like it we may not agree with it and it may seem pointless if your expected to pay for a store you never use, but we dont get to choose how they do business.


GW Global report stated clearly that the Australian Market was down 11%, my contacts in GW Australia have told me that the price rise has cruelled the market even worse than expected.

It is expected that GW will make an operational loss of a further 15%.

And mentioned that 3 out of the 4 leagues that were around last year have folded, and that 2 local games suppliers are getting out of GW all together, another is severely restricting what it sells, and another is relying on Collectable Card Games to survive as its GW sales have died in the arse.


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## lucifer_hawk (Jun 23, 2011)

It's just so frustrating! They say they don't want to sell cheaper so the sales don't hurt their shop sales...there's only about 4 GW shops in au! Our population is very spread out and have a high internet usage %..so internet sales are obviously the way to go. Nah I'm sticking to ebay.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Achaylus72 said:


> GW Global report stated clearly that the Australian Market was down 11%, my contacts in GW Australia have told me that the price rise has cruelled the market even worse than expected.
> 
> It is expected that GW will make an operational loss of a further 15%.
> 
> And mentioned that 3 out of the 4 leagues that were around last year have folded, and that 2 local games suppliers are getting out of GW all together, another is severely restricting what it sells, and another is relying on Collectable Card Games to survive as its GW sales have died in the arse.


which is exactly why GW had to put the embargo in place, the stores and local indies you talk of will have been hit by the increase in "out of country" purchases more than any price rise, the drop in GWs sales figures will directly be reflected in the the metoric rise in sales for UK indies who were shipping to Oz and other nations. 

GW have tried to stop its stores going under by introducing the embargo, GW want you to buy from GW first (store or online) FLGS second and then the second hand market last , but obviously some dont want to pay the prices GW expect you to pay,but that's not the market they are aiming for, they want the people who are happy to pay the store RRP however high it is, its no different to any other retail chain, they have a "ideal" customer demographic that they cater to, selling products at a price that allows them to be profitable and operate, its no different to any other retail chain, the product manufacture costs,rents,utilities,wages,taxes,fixtures,fittings all set the price paid on the shelf and at the start of all that is a product designed and manufactured at the other side of the world in small quantities by people who have a high cost of living. 

Again i say i agree paying more than you want sucks, but its also unrealistic for anyone outside of the EU to expect to pay the same or less for a product produced in the UK from GW ,lets face it GW are not known for great value and price reductions and sales and discount offers and have great disdain for indie sellers and to be honest didnt we see it coming? did anyone really expect GW to do anything different? 

I think its quite possible that sales will drop in a few international territories in next years figures,it maybe that some stores go and some indies drop the range, it maybe that the format does not work but that wont necessarily mean you will get prices any lower,if GW dont see a demand at the prices it presents then they will just leave your shores and reduce its operating costs bill making the rest of the company more profitable. 

Im not saying for one minute that i agree with GW or think how they work in other countries is right, all im saying is this is what it is, GW have a tried and tested method that they are comfortable with and a customer demographic they want to sell to through a chain of stores at a price that sometimes defies belief and thats GW, if you dont want part of that GW ideal then thats *your* problem(by this i mean how GW see you not me), GW are a company that has never ever pandered to the whims of customers or internet forums,they are very much a company that says " this is what we have and this is how we want to sell it and this is how much its gonna cost if you dont like it there is the door" and that may bite them on the arse in the end but no amount of threads and posts on forums will make any difference.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

lucifer_hawk said:


> It's just so frustrating! They say they don't want to sell cheaper so the sales don't hurt their shop sales...there's only about 4 GW shops in au! Our population is very spread out and have a high internet usage %..so internet sales are obviously the way to go. Nah I'm sticking to ebay.


You don't get out much, there are 34 GW Stores in Australia, there 13 in my local area alone.

Then we have a further 139 Independents all told there are 173 outlets in which to buy some GW products.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Achaylus72 said:


> You don't get out much, there are 34 GW Stores in Australia, there 13 in my local area alone.
> 
> Then we have a further 139 Independents all told there are 173 outlets in which to buy some GW products.


lol no wonder sales are down if people think there are 30 less GW stores in there own country


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Kettu said:


> I've been keeping mostly up to date with the Aus pricing saga and something interesting is that all the prices, not just GW but everything, made sense when the Aus dollar was at it's lowest but since then it's gotten better but no one is lowering prices to match. No one, not the Banks, or Businesses.
> 
> Now, after Harvey Norman, David Jones and the like made a massive ruckus about losing customers to cheaper internet shopping, and promptly had their entire campaign for internet-purchase taxes hit a dead end when all the journalists started to air their dirty laundry. _(Sweatshops and Illegal Immigrant workers were just the start)_ The Government took notice.
> 
> ...


Australia is in a really strange place right now, with it's devilishly strong materials markets masking it's other much weaker markets. The problem GW has there is the same as a lot of other retailers, their prices are high to help pay the wages for people so they can afford to buy the expensive things from the other retailers. It's kind of a self supporting pyramid of prices that no-one wants to walk away from first. The first thing that needs to happen is the price of groceries needs to drop.

It's a pretty delicate situation you've got yourself in and it does need to be handled careful to ensure your economy doesn't just explode.


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## lucifer_hawk (Jun 23, 2011)

Achaylus72 said:


> You don't get out much, there are 34 GW Stores in Australia, there 13 in my local area alone.
> 
> Then we have a further 139 Independents all told there are 173 outlets in which to buy some GW products.


LOL!
That's so funny! You're right I don't get out much...the voices in my head keep me from going out where the GW mind control satellites can hear my thoughts.
There are no GW shops within two hours drive of me though, nor any shops that carry their stuff, adding $20 petrol cost to the price of a kit makes eBay cost effective for me!


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

I get the feeling that efforts to set up and/or maintain brick and mortar stores in large countries, with low populations that are spread here and there, are not welcome and that those that 'stumble' across the hobby (I mean, how to you find out about it if you have not store?) would be better off supported by not being locally supported.

On one hand, it makes sense to just pull out of Australia and Canada and let people buy the stuff over the internet and get it imported. The tax issue isn't here or there. In the UK we have Value Added Tax (VAT) on the models; this is calculated at +20% on cost and is included in the RRP. If I sell something to someone outside of the European Community the sale is VAT exempt. This means I don't need to charge VAT to that person. Therefore if Australia sticks some 'toy tax' on the imported item, it is set-off to some extent by the fact that VAT ought not be charged.

On the other hand, how do you create a presence without the stores? How do you ensure that your products get attention over Warmachine and whatever else people like outside of the UK? What happens when you have no GD, competitions or attention from the company? How do you encourage new blood?

I also agree with something AlexHolker said on page 1. Any move out of the EU (which won't happen) would not make any 'embargo' illegal. It would in fact encourage GW to prevent independant sales from UK to EU.


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

increaso said:


> On the other hand, how do you create a presence without the stores? How do you ensure that your products get attention over Warmachine and whatever else people like outside of the UK? What happens when you have no GD, competitions or attention from the company? How do you encourage new blood?


GW is just starting to realise that there's this thing called the Internet. It's one place to start. Banners on different CCG forums or such. Also, closing stores but reinvesting in FLGS might be a good idea. Giving rebates on starter set when bought in store (and enforcing that so that those sets are not sold massively on the net).

Here, in Canada, there used to be a "Grey Knights" organisation. You'd get free stuff when implicating yourself in the community (there were levels and giving 1hour/week in a school club, IIRC, would give you games day tickets or such... 

Phil


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## ThoseKrazyKasrkin (Aug 2, 2011)

Achaylus72 said:


> GW announce through its international sales that GW sales in the Australian Market were down in the 2010-2011 ficsal year by 11%. It is expected that the 2011-2012 fiscal year that a drop in GW Australia sales in the range of 15%.
> 
> Main factor in this are GW Australian prices across the board of an 87.5% mark up against comparitive international prices.
> 
> ...


True. I get them 20% off where i buy them :so_happy:


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

increaso said:


> I get the feeling that efforts to set up and/or maintain brick and mortar stores in large countries, with low populations that are spread here and there, are not welcome and that those that 'stumble' across the hobby (I mean, how to you find out about it if you have not store?) would be better off supported by not being locally supported.
> 
> On one hand, it makes sense to just pull out of Australia and Canada and let people buy the stuff over the internet and get it imported. The tax issue isn't here or there. In the UK we have Value Added Tax (VAT) on the models; this is calculated at +20% on cost and is included in the RRP. If I sell something to someone outside of the European Community the sale is VAT exempt. This means I don't need to charge VAT to that person. Therefore if Australia sticks some 'toy tax' on the imported item, it is set-off to some extent by the fact that VAT ought not be charged.
> 
> ...


We do have a 10% GST (Goods and Services Tax) and that GW products are subjected to it.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

ThoseKrazyKasrkin said:


> True. I get them 20% off where i buy them :so_happy:


I work on the principle of 62c US to the Aussie peso, if the Australian dollar is above 62c US it is more viable to buy overseas via EBay or other internet vendors, anything under 62C US it becomes unviable in regards to international purchasing, in this it becomes too expensive to buy domestic supply, if this happens i am out.


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## Kettu (Nov 20, 2007)

Aramoro said:


> Australia is in a really strange place right now, with it's devilishly strong materials markets masking it's other much weaker markets. The problem GW has there is the same as a lot of other retailers, their prices are high to help pay the wages for people so they can afford to buy the expensive things from the other retailers.


Well, that's just it, there is between 40% to 60% empty profit that many companies are raking it that they were not before the Dollar became strong, that was what the government findings were. That profit shouldn't be there.

But yeah, no one will walk away from it first so it needs to be all pushed at the same time.

Thing is though, it's not the groceries that need to get cheaper. That's mostly determined by everything else, it's the banks need to adjust how they function.

But they won't, the Reserve Bank can only force them so far and the moment the government opens up it's mouth they'll be smacked back by the banks, harder and faster then anyone thought possible.

But if the Banks adjust without the Reserve following suit straight away, there will be massive backlashes across all markets.

So, yeah...
We probably need the current generation of CEOs to all retire before something will really move.


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Customers can do a difference and force the companies. Because of customer pressure the JCpenney(IIRC) store in Toronto, Canada, was forced to revert to the US prices a few weeks after opening. Not saying it could happen with GW, but it's no reason to accepts money-exchange related gouging (neither from any international company!!!).

Phil


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