# randomly curious about fantasy



## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

Firsly, Dont any of you dare go turning me into a frog or whatever you fantasy boys do with your magiks, keep to that and I promise not to call in the tanks. 

Anyway, bad joke aside, I'm a bit board right now so I thaught I'd ask some things about fantasy I'd been wondering. 



I've got a fantasy rulebook from 2002 (that I've never looked at), what edition would that put it in? What edition are you in now?

Do you guys have an army like the space marines that gets a lot of favoratism and everyone loves to hate?

Do you have an army like the dark eldar that have a co- "army book" thats multiple editions out of date and has goten absolutely no love from GW for ages?

Do you have an army like the squats that just doesent exist anymore?

If (big IF) I were to play fantasy, how jaring would the conversion between 40K and fantasy be? How diferent are the games at the end of the day?

Where are the bretonians? I was looking at the "introduction to the armies of warhammer" out of curiosity, and I noticed that they werent included. They look pretty cool in my 7 year old rulebook, did GW kill them?

Ogre Kingdoms? WTF!?

Do you guys actualy have to use those rediculos square formations? or is it just to make moveing easier? It just seems like a bad idea what with the few blast weapons you have wreeking extra havok because everyones packed in like that. 

Refering back to that big IF going on up there... Dwarfs are looking pretty badass, after I finish my guard, I'm looking for somthing new, my first inclination was chaos space marines, but I'm wondering, what are the advantages to playing fantasy?


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

3 words - Don't Do It


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

truly amazing advice Crimzzen. truly.




Col. Schafer said:


> Firsly, Dont any of you dare go turning me into a frog or whatever you fantasy boys do with your magiks, keep to that and I promise not to call in the tanks.
> 
> Anyway, bad joke aside, I'm a bit board right now so I thaught I'd ask some things about fantasy I'd been wondering.
> 
> ...


hope that helps.
also, what use is tanks if i have just tuned them into lead? or summoned a wall of fire to block your progress? or summoned a portal into the realm of chaos? or besset the crew with the wailing of the dead, freezing their insides? or summoned a mystical shield which protects me? or headbutted it (thank you gork!)? or any of the other gazzilan options?:laugh::laugh:


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

Dafist of mork sums it up fairly well its a more tactical game and a normal progression from 40k (Which to be honest is becoming little more than an expensive game for kids with every new edition being more and more simplified and less tactical)
The only thing he missed really is that not all armies rely on big blocks of troops, both woodelf and ogres can get by without them although its a bit more difficult to pull of a victory with these type of lists and to some extents both high and dark elves and the Beasts of chaos can funtion perfectly well with lots of smaller units.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I would contest that it's not more tactical, necessarily. Like any game, it depends on the ability of yourself and the opponent. For much of it's history, Warhammer FB has been beset by HeroHammer, and uber-units of death that take up 90% plus of your points. There is nothing 'tactical' about either of these things.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

TheKingElessar said:


> I would contest that it's not more tactical, necessarily. Like any game, it depends on the ability of yourself and the opponent. For much of it's history, Warhammer FB has been beset by HeroHammer, and uber-units of death that take up 90% plus of your points. There is nothing 'tactical' about either of these things.


I wouldn't say herohammer and deathstars are particularly powerful in 7th Ed TKE, there was a period of Herohammer a few editions back and deathstars are a nuisance, but neither is likely to be on the top table in competitive play. The reason I think Fantasy is more tactical than 40k is because Fantasy is more about the movement phase than 40k is. In Fantasy to win and win well you need to dominate the movement phase to force your opponent to react to you and to set up the best charges and combats. The same can't really be said about 40k.

In Fantasy a good player will use the movement phase to get combined charges with flanks and careful baiting. A really good player will use it tear their opponent to places by dominating the movement phase and forcing their opponent to move where they want them to, with charges that wipe whole chunks of their opponents army out. I think the major difference is in Fantasy you don't just rely on the dice, if you do badly in the movement phase even good dice wont save you. Obviously 40k is tactical but I think less so than Fantasy.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

squeek said:


> I wouldn't say herohammer and deathstars are particularly powerful in 7th Ed TKE, there was a period of Herohammer a few editions back and deathstars are a nuisance, but neither is likely to be on the top table in competitive play. The reason I think Fantasy is more tactical than 40k is because Fantasy is more about the movement phase than 40k is. In Fantasy to win and win well you need to dominate the movement phase to force your opponent to react to you and to set up the best charges and combats. The same can't really be said about 40k.
> 
> In Fantasy a good player will use the movement phase to get combined charges with flanks and careful baiting. A really good player will use it tear their opponent to places by dominating the movement phase and forcing their opponent to move where they want them to, with charges that wipe whole chunks of their opponents army out. I think the major difference is in Fantasy you don't just rely on the dice, if you do badly in the movement phase even good dice wont save you. Obviously 40k is tactical but I think less so than Fantasy.


That's fair enough, but I do get annoyed when people say it's definitively more tactical, and give no reasons. I don't see much difference in tactics required, but I don't play Fantasy (even though I know how) because I haven't got an army. I wasn't going to post, for that reason, but thought it only fair to challenge the previous assertion.


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

The movement phase is a HUGE part of the game, and really sets up how you do in all of your other phases. For instance, if you declare a charge only to find out that your charging unit is out of range, you open yourself up to a counter-charge and need to take measures to protect the unit that charged...if it is worthy of protection, such as an expensive cavalry unit.

If you like fluff, Fantasy is a nice breath of fresh air after playing 40k for so long. The world of Fantasy is still dark and death is rampant, but it's a Chucky-Cheese playhouse compared to the GRIMDARK of 40k.

Also, there's no "poster boy" army; there's a large group of armies that most people play and a handful that only a few people play, like Chaos Beasts and Ogres, but all-in-all most armies get an equal amount of attention.

And yes Brettonia is still in the game, and they're THE premier cavalry army. Other armies can field knights, but not like the Bretts; their Grail Knights are one of the best cavalry units in the game, and even their Core knights hit like a freight train when they charge.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Dafistofmork said:


> truly amazing advice Crimzzen. truly.


I seriously try my hardest!


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

The reason I believe that fantasy is more tactical is the way you need to combine units to truly dominate the battlefield, Yes there are powerful combo's in 40k (lash and beserkers spring too mind) but in fantasy there are very few stand alone units that just go off and do their own thing.
For me fantasy is all about maximising different units by pairing them up to destroy the elite units that alone they couldn't hope to stand against in 40k the lascannon is the great leveller and most of the army lists just seem to be cut and paste from the internet and there is a great deal of units that just aren't ever seen as they're not powerful enough.
40k is the hook to bring in the cash cow kids and recently has been dumbed down far too much an unfortunate reflection on the type of gamer and society in general (This is by no means meant as an insult or meant to start a flame war)
When I started in the hobby the rules were more complex than astrophysics and most gamers were bearded weirdo's with astrophysic degrees and dungeons and dragon diploma's. The hobby became more accessable with the boxed sets for both fantasy and 40k and lots more normal people got involved but as fantasy rules stayed fairly constant, only the magic phase has changed significantly, 40k has been changed drastically at least 3 times with fairly sweeping differences and each time getting easier.


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

Thanks for the responses. 

And I must say I'm intruiged. More tactics sounds like fun, but dwarves get no magic at all? Screw that, if I'm going to start fantasy I'm going to want somthing really fantasy... But yeah, dispite Crimzzen's stiring words, I think I might just check your pixie-magics out once I've filled up my heavy suport slots. :biggrin:

I think I'll start reading thru the rulebook I have, if its only one edition out of date, it should get the point across at least. 

Cheers! 

also, what use is tanks if i have just tuned them into lead?more mass to ram you with.

or summoned a wall of fire to block your progress?*pft* its a TANK:laugh:

or summoned a portal into the realm of chaos? Purity seals:angel: 

or besset the crew with the wailing of the dead, freezing their insides? Valhallans:santa: 

or summoned a mystical shield which protects me? double *pft*:laugh:

or headbutted it (thank you gork!)? Try it I dare you :spiteful:

or any of the other gazzilan options? I can keep going if you can keep going :biggrin:


Edited: Red text is for mods - squeek

oops, sory I forgot. My bad...


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

Going back to armies that were dropped, I think the Fimir are quite similar to squats in droppedness. As far as i can gather, they were some sort of half-daemon thing that lived in swamps (there's an implicit mention of them in the boglar entry in the gnoblar army list in a white dwarf a while back).


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

Col. Schafer said:


> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> And I must say I'm intruiged. More tactics sounds like fun, but dwarves get no magic at all? Screw that, if I'm going to start fantasy I'm going to want somthing really fantasy... But yeah, dispite Crimzzen's stiring words, I think I might just check your pixie-magics out once I've filled up my heavy suport slots. :biggrin:
> 
> ...


okay, now you have pushed my hand- The Comet of Casandora!! how will your tanks take to a small moon being dropped on them!!:laugh:


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## Thanatos (Mar 23, 2009)

Col. Schafer, ireckon if you want something fanatasy u should go with Vampire Counts... they're great fun with all the summoning all blood drinking :good:

.......i'm not trying to grab him before he starts..... *eyes dart from left to right*.....


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Comet of Cassandora? Even Russes move quickly enough to avoid it...Arnipzipal's Black Horror is a more potent threat...


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

Rule of Burning Iron, By my estimate a Bane Blade would be taking a S56 hit with no armor saves allowed.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

It's obscured, and you're in the wrong arc - 3+ Cover save.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Warhammers biggest advantage (for me) is there is no 'favourite team' for GW, meaning that there is a wide range of opponents in games and not a repeat of one team....it makes it very diverse.

Armies are often bigger in warhammer, at least as an average, with many armies hitting around 100 models at 2000 points.

If I was to make a comparison between the focus of each, warhammer is about movement and tactics, like chess. Warhammer 40k is all about army composition, in 40k you win/lose often before you set up, although this is true in warhammer, not as much so


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