# Most interesting primarch



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Who do you think is the most interesting primarch?

I think it's Night Haunter for me. He was never adopted, was exposed to all the ugliest elements of human society from an early age, which must have really damaged his psyche, but he still found it in himself to become a vigilante rather than a criminal predator. Deep down inside he was probably "a good person" but he also had a vicious streak from his twisted childhood.


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## scolatae (Aug 25, 2008)

has to be magnus, a powerful misunderstood sorceror one of the few along with ahriman his chief librarian to master the art mistreated by his father and loathed by the barbaric russ (yet another reason to like him). For me he has an air of dark mystique and tragedy about him that you dont find in any other primarch. it could also probably be ferrus manus who even at their final duel and its sad conclusion tried to save fulgrims soul and for that payed with his life.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

I agree Kurze has gotta be one of the most interesting. Even allowing himself to be killed for vindication, fantastic 

Personally though I like Fulgrim, Perturabo and Alpharius Omegon.

(cant be bothered to explain my choices right now! I'll edit later :grin


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

it's always the misunderstood ones that are most interesting eh? 

magnus was punished for warning the emperor with sorcery, the only way that could deliver the message in time, and I have to agree with Dan Abnett, he mentioned somewhere that the Space Wolves are a bit boring, a little bit too close to their inspiration (Vikings obviously)



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I agree Kurze has gotta be one of the most interesting. Even allowing himself to be killed for vindication, fantastic
> 
> Personally though I like Fulgrim, Perturabo and Alpharius Omegon.
> 
> (cant be bothered to explain my choices right now! I'll edit later :grin


it just goes to show that even if you're a primarch, if you have a fu cked up childhood and youth with no guidance, you're probably not going to be a very happy individual...it really humanises Konrad

btw do you know if there is a novel featuring the White Scars or Jaghatai Khan (more than just a few references)?


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I always liked one of the most basic, Angron. He was enslaved and brutalised all of his life and hated the Emperor for his betrayal. He is also the only Primarch (in the books at least) that shows any sign of weakness.
Fulgrim is undone by his own arrogance but Angron had little choice in the matter, he was lobotomized and turned into a raving psychopath who knew nothing but war. 
In some respects, I suppose, he could be viewed as the perfect Primarch.
Angron was not brought into the Imperium by the Emperor but by Kharn, the only World Eater strong and resilient enough to withstand Angron's onslaught, the Emperor even chickened out on that.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> I always liked one of the most basic, Angron. He was enslaved and brutalised all of his life and hated the Emperor for his betrayal.


which betrayal are you referring to?


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## BloodAngelsfan (Jan 22, 2009)

Well, I like the Space Wolves, but there isn't really anything interesting about him. I hate Roboutte Guilliman (spelling?) kind of like you hate the smart kid in a class, for overachieving. I'd say Konrad Kurze, or possibly Mortarion.


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## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

For myself, I'd say it is tied between Horus and Rogal Dorn. 

Horus, because he was the greatest leader that the imperium had, and once he'd fallen he still led well, if not better than before. Shame he fell to chaos and all, but really, he was an amazing leader.

Rogal Dorn interests me because he seems a lot like the awesome version of the Lion, a dark and brooding yet brilliant mind. He's very enigmatic, probably since all I've read regarding him is Flight of the Eisenstein.

Sanguinius rates a mention too, since he is one of those 'mythic' characters that have made their way into 40k cannon, in so much as he behaves like a Greek Hero.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

MontytheMighty said:


> which betrayal are you referring to?


When Angron was discovered by the Emperor he was leading a slave revolt against the ruling class of the planet he landed on.
On the eve of the final battle the Emperor teleported Angron away from his army who were then decimated.


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## scolatae (Aug 25, 2008)

a battle that they couldn't possibly hope to win:grin:


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

scolatae said:


> a battle that they couldn't possibly hope to win:grin:


That may well be the case, I'm not saying that Angron was in the right, just that he saw it as a betrayal by the Emperor. To put it another way, they got off on the wrong foot with each other and Angron never really forgave him for it.
Look at the greetings all the other Primarchs got, all glowing god like Emperor, challenges and trials, they were greeted like long lost sons (which they were of course).
Angron was always the black sheep of the family from day one.


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## Praxiss (Aug 13, 2009)

I think Konrad, Mortorian and Purterabo are the most interesting. but then i have note read anythgin abotu their back stories. Anyone have a link to Primarch fluff?


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

What about Lorgar? Orchistrated the entire Horus heresy really! 
Even managed to publish a book in the process. 
Pretty interesting character!


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

night haunter or the lion 
both of them stupidly managed to destroy their own homeworlds ,one had a split personality(apparently,as in half chaos bloodlust ,half just and fair) and technically theres no proof of konrads death the video cut out before the kill was confirmed,and the lion managed to stay in what i see as the image of the emperor as in for 10,000 years he hasn't moved he's just alive and doing nothing ,seriously i know his a primarch but thats a long time to be unconcious

and obviously i have to mention blood angels primarch (can't spell his name) for going onto horuses ship when he knew he'd die


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Kale Hellas said:


> and technically theres no proof of konrads death the video cut out before the kill was confirmed


Although his death is the whole point of the story of Konrad. He allowed himself to be killed so he could get his vindication. "Death is nothing compared to Vindication". So In my opinion I think its safe to say hes dead. 



Kale Hellas said:


> and obviously i have to mention blood angels primarch (can't spell his name) for going onto horuses ship when he knew he'd die


I know Sanguinius was a great Primarch, but I don't know why people always use the example of him facing Horus as a sign of Sanguinius' greatness. 

Firstly by some accounts he didn't even know he was going to die, as he tried to convince Horus to turn back.

Secondly marching into certain death for the good of a cause isn't that fantastic (in the 40k universe it isn't a rare thing). Half the Imperial Guard do it! The Custodes who charged Horus during his fight with the Emperor charged to his certain doom. 

Anyways im just rambling 



Praxiss said:


> Anyone have a link to Primarch fluff?


Its not always perfectly correct and shouldn't be used as a definate source of information. But try this Link.


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

i do know konrads last known words and even i believe his dead i was just pointing out that there no concrete evidence of his death


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## Praxiss (Aug 13, 2009)

Thanks for the link. It'll give me soemthgin to read at work.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I was unaware that Mortarion had a personality :biggrin:, must've missed the novels with him in them

and Lorgar is an interesting one, perhaps not the greatest to fall but the first to fall

and he was the one to "turn" a weakened Horus, through Erebus


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

i don't think there can be much debate about this. clearly the two most interesting Primarchs are the one's we have never heard about. the masters of the II and XI Legions. however, i guess that's not a very helpful vote, so i'll list some that have been named:

personally, i think that Gulliman is probably the most interesting. he is the man that literally wrote the book on how things should work in the Imperium after the Big E was no longer with it. and yet, for all the pages that are lavished on the UM, we actually know very little about how this man collated his tactical genius, and what his lasting legacy looks like. aside from the Emperor, i don't think there is another individual that has had more impact on the Imperium of Man. He is Paul to the Emperor's Jesus.

second, is probably Magnus. there have been a number of accounts of his life and actions, several of which conflict quite strongly. personally, i'm inclined to believe he was a bad boy from an early stage and he was in no way pushed from the Emperor's side, and i believe his behavior towards Ahriman implicty carries the notion that he contoned his actions, even if he could not have been open about it. however, the truth is that we may simply never know. if there is ever a more apt disciple of Tzeentch, it is the man wrapped in an enigma, shrouded in mystery and then chained into a box full of the wet concrete of a secrete puzzle that no one has been told about.

and finally, i would vote for Alpharius. (similar to Night Haunter. but less goth.) shunned by his brethren, tactically opposite to the rest of his allies and secretive where his fellow marines are brash, Alpharius was a rebel in every sense of the word. he's not as deep as other Primarch, which is why he's not higher up the list, but he is fascinatingly different.


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## Sytus (Aug 27, 2009)

I find both Vulkan and Russ more interesting, probably because of the mystery of their dissappearance.What exactly is the end time?
I think Magnus has an interesting story,if slightly misunderstood.


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

my vote is for lion el'johnson, the kid survived on a planet that was all jungle world filled with choas twisted beasts. score one for the first primarch


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## scolatae (Aug 25, 2008)

normtheunsavoury said:


> That may well be the case, I'm not saying that Angron was in the right, just that he saw it as a betrayal by the Emperor. To put it another way, they got off on the wrong foot with each other and Angron never really forgave him for it.
> Look at the greetings all the other Primarchs got, all glowing god like Emperor, challenges and trials, they were greeted like long lost sons (which they were of course).
> Angron was always the black sheep of the family from day one.


angron was a black sheep :shok:... no wander the emperor was concerned about him. how did a sheep get all of that world eater killy power.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Kurze, for the already stated reasons, and Ferrus Mannuswith his metal hands is also cool. The whole thing about supposedly battling a c'tan and winning makes him intersting. I'd like to see more background fluff on him.


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## HighHubris (Mar 16, 2009)

Ferrus Manus without a doubt...
-drowning a C'Tan (speculative) in magma and turning his arms into living metal.
-technologically advancing an entire world singlehandedly,
-promoting survival of the fittest.
-fighting the Emperor to a point where entire mountains were laid waste.
-attacking his brother, Fulgrim before the heresy even began because he tried tempting him into chaos
-the model is just so badass 

i'd add more but i'm typing with one hand while holding an ungainly pewter model together while super glue sets... just too lazy to pin atm damn having 2 jobs take all my time


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

I'm going with Lion El'Jonson. This guy just seems so unknowable in one sence and very familiar on the other. I would really like to know more about him especially since it's hinted that even Horus didn't want to send his army into battle if Lion was the opposing commander. 

The way I see it Horus was a brilliant but predictable commander. He seems to have developed a few simple battle plans and then carried them out flawlessly that coupled with his very fearsome legion seems to have been what won him his victories.

Lion on the other hand seems to have been a genuine master strategist crafting a new plan for every engagement and doing his best to make sure the enemy fought him on his own ground. 

I really would like to see more of Lion after the heresy since all we've seen so far is a glory hungry Primarch who seems to inspire the same kind of personal loyalty Horus does but with far less diplomacy. In some ways that makes him more arrogant but his behaviour in battle seems to indicate a far more humble personality. Horus so far seems to lead from the back sending his troops in ahead of him, Lion on the other hand every time we've seen him has been right in there with the troops carving things up with his own sword. 

So really I find Lion an interesting contradiction, on the one hand a glory hungry Jerk who knows how good he is and won't let you forget it. And on the other a guy you would follow into the gates of hell and who would be smacking satan right alongside you.


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## Fallen Angel Sammael (Jun 18, 2009)

Would have to be Lion El Johnson, a bit more about his background has come out about the primarch being tainted by chaos when he was young and in the jungles of caliban, how this made the Lion secretive and not trusting anyone as the Dark angels chapter are today. Layers upon layers of secrets....And who really knows who turned to Chaos? 

The Lion who sent all the Terran dark angels back to caliban and then fired upon them when returning home or The dark angels left on caliban led by Luther....

I just find the Lion interesting because no one knew his true motive...was he travelling to Terra slowly to see who would win?.........


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Fallen Angel Sammael said:


> Would have to be Lion El Johnson, a bit more about his background has come out about the primarch being tainted by chaos when he was young and in the jungles of caliban, how this made the Lion secretive and not trusting anyone as the Dark angels chapter are today. Layers upon layers of secrets....And who really knows who turned to Chaos?
> 
> The Lion who sent all the Terran dark angels back to caliban and then fired upon them when returning home or The dark angels left on caliban led by Luther....
> 
> I just find the Lion interesting because no one knew his true motive...was he travelling to Terra slowly to see who would win?.........



Ahhh I have to disagree with you there. It sounds like a lot of what you've read is from Angels of Darkness but if you read Fallen Angels you get a much better handle on Lion himself without the perspective of the fallen. I think it's safe to say that he was a loyalist in fact one of the things he never shuts up about is the punishing of traitors, he also seems to REALLY dislike Horus. 

It also becomes clear that Luther and the marines on Caliban are really barmy and very very tainted.


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## Rixnor (Dec 23, 2007)

This is a tough one. Most interesting....I would have to say Alpharius Omegon. Mostly because even after Dan Abnett did a superb job creating the characters and telling the story of how they turned, there is still so many un-answered questions.

The Primarchs I would like to read about the most..... Probably Russ and Dorn. I am a little biased because I run a SW and an IF army. But as characters I am very interested to see how they are developed. I liked what I read of Dorn so far.

I also have a sick fascination reading about Angron. I am interested to see his trip down the rabbit hole, and very interested to read how Kharn goes from calming influence to his current state.

Rix


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Coder59 said:


> Ahhh I have to disagree with you there. It sounds like a lot of what you've read is from Angels of Darkness but if you read Fallen Angels you get a much better handle on Lion himself without the perspective of the fallen. I think it's safe to say that he was a loyalist in fact one of the things he never shuts up about is the punishing of traitors, he also seems to REALLY dislike Horus.


Coder is right  The Lion is portrayed as a loyalist in 'Fallen Angels' - although his blind arrogance actually helps the traitors more than it hinders them. I dont think that he personally dislikes Horus - its more jealously that Horus was made Warmaster instead of him (although it would have been a disaster if Jonson was made Warmaster!) - although it would seem that this probably leads to hate anyway. :good:



Coder59 said:


> It also becomes clear that Luther and the marines on Caliban are really barmy and very very tainted.


I disagree  - Luther had nothing but the best intentions, he was loyal to Caliban rather than to the Imperium that shunned him. He did what he did out of necessity, he had no real knowledge of Chaos and how dangerous it was, he is not to blame  Also The Lion seemed to betray not only Luther but Caliban aswell what with Cypher and the Terran Psykers, and his banishment of Luther.

The role the Terran Sorcerers/Psykers played is unclear. It is implied that they were actually trying to defeat the Taint rather than spread it, but this is unclear.


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## Komrad (Oct 30, 2008)

i love so many Primarchs and my Favorite seems to shift depending on the last i read up on, and even tho the Thousand Sons are my all time Favorite Legion and i love Magnus, id be tied between him and Lorgar (i have a soft spot for the misunderstood Primarchs :3) there tails are both really sad but id saaaay...Lorg-magnus! no lorgar...or maybe magnus...no no...definetly lorgar..he loved the Emperor and was the only Primarch to convert worlds with words rather than brute force...but magnus was such a awsome Psycher and was gonna take over as the new Emperor when/if the Emperor died/passed on from rectum cancer...ok ok Morgar the Red word Bearer!  Lagnus the silver tongued?...I CANT DECIDE! :scare:


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## Fallen Angel Sammael (Jun 18, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Coder is right  The Lion is portrayed as a loyalist in 'Fallen Angels' - although his blind arrogance actually helps the traitors more than it hinders them. I dont think that he personally dislikes Horus - its more jealously that Horus was made Warmaster instead of him (although it would have been a disaster if Jonson was made Warmaster!) - although it would seem that this probably leads to hate anyway. :good:
> 
> Why would he have been a disaster? He was the second best taction behind Horus.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Fallen Angel Sammael said:


> Why would he have been a disaster? He was the second best taction behind Horus.


Do you think the role of Warmaster relys on one being a good tactician? Don't be absurd  (and also he is not strictly the second best tactician behind Horus, its next-to-impossible to rate the Primarchs on there tactical abilites. But we know from Horus Rising that Rogal Dorn had the second-best record in the crusade behind Horus. The other main great tacticians besides Horus were; Alpharius Omegon, Guilliman, Dorn and the Lion.)

The role of Warmaster ties in Supreme military capabilities, supreme diplomatic skills, the ambition and drive to conquer the galaxy, the ability to unite the other primarchs behind his rule, and so much more. Horus was the only one that possessed the abilities to take on the role of Warmaster.

Look at what the Lion did to his own legion. Alienated Luther, his own homeworld and a lot of his own marines. He effectively forced Luther to turn from the Imperium. Imagine what disasters he would have caused if he was in command of the entire Imperium's military forces, rather than just the First Legions... :taunt:


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## Fallen Angel Sammael (Jun 18, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Do you think the role of Warmaster relys on one being a good tactician? Don't be absurd  (and also he is not strictly the second best tactician behind Horus, its next-to-impossible to rate the Primarchs on there tactical abilites. But we know from Horus Rising that Rogal Dorn had the second-best record in the crusade behind Horus. The other main great tacticians besides Horus were; Alpharius Omegon, Guilliman, Dorn and the Lion.)
> 
> The role of Warmaster ties in Supreme military capabilities, supreme diplomatic skills, the ambition and drive to conquer the galaxy, the ability to unite the other primarchs behind his rule, and so much more. Horus was the only one that possessed the abilities to take on the role of Warmaster.
> 
> Look at what the Lion did to his own legion. Alienated Luther, his own homeworld and a lot of his own marines. He effectively forced Luther to turn from the Imperium. Imagine what disasters he would have caused if he was in command of the entire Imperium's military forces, rather than just the First Legions... :taunt:


Fair enough then.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

:yahoo:...


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## Carnivore (Aug 4, 2009)

scolatae said:


> has to be magnus, a powerful misunderstood sorceror one of the few along with ahriman his chief librarian to master the art mistreated by his father and loathed by the barbaric russ (yet another reason to like him). For me he has an air of dark mystique and tragedy about him that you dont find in any other primarch.


I'd stick with you on that. And it's even woth to note that Ahriman isn't that fond of Chaos and only seek a mean to redeem his Legion... I'll try and find the proper references of what I just wrote as soon as I'm back in my quarters... Leave me two or three days at the upmost. :grin:



normtheunsavoury said:


> I always liked one of the most basic, Angron. He was enslaved and brutalised all of his life and hated the Emperor for his betrayal. He is also the only Primarch (in the books at least) that shows any sign of weakness.
> Fulgrim is undone by his own arrogance but Angron had little choice in the matter, he was lobotomized and turned into a raving psychopath who knew nothing but war.
> In some respects, I suppose, he could be viewed as the perfect Primarch.
> Angron was not brought into the Imperium by the Emperor but by Kharn, the only World Eater strong and resilient enough to withstand Angron's onslaught, the Emperor even chickened out on that.


And then, how surprising, I wholeheartedly agree with you, man, but for the "emperor chickend" part. I'd rather think, the Emperor thought wise to create a deep bond between Angron* and his army...


*Who looks quite dumd in the story you're refering to... :angry:


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

HighHubris said:


> Ferrus Manus without a doubt...
> -drowning a C'Tan (speculative) in magma and turning his arms into living metal.
> -technologically advancing an entire world singlehandedly,
> -promoting survival of the fittest.
> ...


Yes I find Ferrus Manus and his Iron Hands to be very interesting, I haven't read _Fulgrim_ yet, I just hope the fight between Fulgrim and Ferrus isn't too one-sided, like how most of fights between loyalists and chaos end up, i.e. Horus vs. Sanguinius or even Little Horus vs. Torgaddon (they were supposed to be roughly equal but it sounded like Aximand dispatched Tarik fairly easily) 

And from what everyone has said about Lion El Jonson it seems he is a very mercurial mysterious but ultimately brilliant character, that sounds pretty cool since I really like the whole mysterious Dark Angels "secret monastic order" style which must have come from their primarch

Is it fair to say Lion El Jonson came into contact with the whisperings of chaos but ultimately remained loyal, in part because he was not chosen as Warmaster and Horus lost in the end?


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I disagree  - Luther had nothing but the best intentions, he was loyal to Caliban rather than to the Imperium that shunned him. He did what he did out of necessity, he had no real knowledge of Chaos and how dangerous it was, he is not to blame  Also The Lion seemed to betray not only Luther but Caliban aswell what with Cypher and the Terran Psykers, and his banishment of Luther.
> 
> The role the Terran Sorcerers/Psykers played is unclear. It is implied that they were actually trying to defeat the Taint rather than spread it, but this is unclear.


I agree with the role of the Psykers but not Luther. Luther has been reading his chaos codex and appears to be becoming more tainted by the second. But it's still implied that he can pull back yet he doesn't. I also kind of disagree with Luther having the best of intentions if you take into account his actions in Descent of Angels which it's sort of hinted that Lion knew about Lion's distancing of Luther starts to seem more reasonable.



MontytheMighty said:


> Is it fair to say Lion El Jonson came into contact with the whisperings of chaos but ultimately remained loyal, in part because he was not chosen as Warmaster and Horus lost in the end?


Yes I also think it has something to do with Lion being so bloody stubborn. He seems a tenacious type and we can assume that he experienced the power of chaos in his early life and just refused to submit.


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## AurochsLords (Sep 1, 2009)

I have to say Alpharius and Omegon, the twins that weren't. Since to this day (40k time) nobody really knows where the Alpha Legion and it's Primarch(s) stand and whether they will come roaring back into the fluff to help save the Imperium of Man.


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## Fallen Angel Sammael (Jun 18, 2009)

AurochsLords said:


> I have to say Alpharius and Omegon, the twins that weren't. Since to this day (40k time) nobody really knows where the Alpha Legion and it's Primarch(s) stand and whether they will come roaring back into the fluff to help save the Imperium of Man.


I doubt they would be welcomed back with greeting arms......


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## Frederick Destroyer (Jul 28, 2009)

the II and XI legion primarchs just because I have no idea why they weren't mentioned. I've heard about copyright infringement? I doubt that tho, and I'm sure it's just to add to the fluff. I really don't like the whole "left in a rock/stasis field" thing with The Lion/guilliman.

What about that Khan guy who went off fighting the dark eldar in the warp and never returned? He didn't even create a second founding, so that's interesting to me. But I've always had a soft spot for those dark eldar.

And I HATE GUILLIMAN!!!!:ireful2: This dude sucks. He wrote the book alright, but that's why I hate him. Too much orthodoxy.


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## Fallen Angel Sammael (Jun 18, 2009)

Frederick Destroyer said:


> the II and XI legion primarchs just because I have no idea why they weren't mentioned. I've heard about copyright infringement? I doubt that tho, and I'm sure it's just to add to the fluff. I really don't like the whole "left in a rock/stasis field" thing with The Lion/guilliman.
> 
> What about that Khan guy who went off fighting the dark eldar in the warp and never returned? He didn't even create a second founding, so that's interesting to me. But I've always had a soft spot for those dark eldar.
> 
> And I HATE GUILLIMAN!!!!:ireful2: This dude sucks. He wrote the book alright, but that's why I hate him. Too much orthodoxy.


Gulliman worked his socks off to keep the Imperium together and to drive of the last traitors, xenos, Heretics etc......... With out his efforts the Imperium would have collapsed and probaly been destroyed. :nono:


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

Fallen Angel Sammael said:


> Gulliman worked his socks off to keep the Imperium together and to drive of the last traitors, xenos, Heretics etc......... With out his efforts the Imperium would have collapsed and probaly been destroyed. :nono:


then we would have chaos being eaten by tyranids and imperium having no more problems


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

AurochsLords said:


> I have to say Alpharius and Omegon, the twins that weren't. Since to this day (40k time) nobody really knows where the Alpha Legion and it's Primarch(s) stand and whether they will come roaring back into the fluff to help save the Imperium of Man.


wait, so are they the same person or not? if not, did Gulliman kill one of them, or is all of this deliberately left ambiguous...


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> wait, so are they the same person or not? if not, did Gulliman kill one of them, or is all of this deliberately left ambiguous...


They are technically the same person whilst at the same time being different people. 

They are described as "One Soul in Two Bodies" essentially making it the same person, if the soul is what makes the person. 

On a side note the most logical reason as to why they are twins is because of warp mutation. When they were sucked through the warp several Primarchs suffered some form of warp mutation (Sanguinius and Magnus as examples) - Alpharius likely suffered from some sort of mutation which split him into two bodies. (This theory is supported by the fact that the Emperor didn't know about Omegon, so the division into two bodies must have occured sometime after they were scattered from Terra/Luna.)

& There is an account which states that Guilliman killed Alpharius yes. I believe it comes from Inquisitor Kravin, who was later deemed tainted by the Alpha Legion and disappeared mysteriously. Some people believe though that the Alpha Legion planted said records into Imperial Databases (Via Kravin) to spread misinformation. The account states that Alpharius met Guilliman in single-combat and that Guilliman killed Alpharius in one hit (If I remember correctly), which makes it even more suspect. Its Highly likely in my opinion that both Alpharius and Omegon are still at large in M41, especially because of the information we have on the Alpha Legion from the HH novel 'Legion'.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> They are technically the same person whilst at the same time being different people.
> 
> They are described as "One Soul in Two Bodies" essentially making it the same person, if the soul is what makes the person.
> 
> ...


I should also add that this information is so suspect that even the Ultramarines don't believe it.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I recently got my hands on the fifth edition space marines codex, which, surprise surprise, is almost entirely about the Ultramarines...

anyway Gulliman seems to be one hell of an efficient organiser and planner, I'd venture to say he might have been more competent than Horus...when all the other legions only had one planet each, Gulliman had 8 star-systems under his control, and his Ultramarines made up more than half of all space marines (not sure whether it was over half of all pre-heresy marines or half of all loyalist marines but either way it's impressive) 
is he featured as a main character in any of the Heresy novels?


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