# Hellions?



## FuriousCurioso (Mar 1, 2009)

Do any of you happen to use Hellions?and if so could you break down your tactics a bit for me? I like the models and am thinking of getting a unit of them...


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## spidie2000 (Nov 21, 2008)

cool model, crummy unit.... not worth the points. I have 6 of them but after 1 game I decided to stick to jetbikes. I think its one of the fluff units that GW puts out that just never ends up being worth the points.. For an extra 7 points you get a jetbike that gives you toughness 4, a 4+ armor save and the option to turboboost moving twice as fast as a hellion, and making your save invuln for the turn. The skyboard makes you str 4 but with only toughness 3 and a 5+ armor save they die much easier than jetbikes.


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## LOKI_DE (Dec 30, 2008)

Yh bikes are alot better than hellions and they are not worth the points , btw the reavers do not get an invun anymore you get a 3+ cover save for turbo boosting. If you really want to play them a small unit deep striking with blasters could make up there points and give your opponant something to think about . however i am never goin to use them as they are not fast enough.


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## spidie2000 (Nov 21, 2008)

the 3+ cover save is per 5th ed rulebook, but I thought if your codex had its own rules we still went by codex.


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## LOKI_DE (Dec 30, 2008)

It says with the benifits of an eldar jetbike described in the 40k rulebook in the FAQ and so they use the 3+cover and not the invun. But they do gain an assalt move which is a bonus.


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## spidie2000 (Nov 21, 2008)

hey that works for me thanks man! 3+ cover is better than invuln... and we can move in assault phase, I guess I always thought that rule was in our codex, I've been playing since 4th ed and never realized it changed for us. I need to go back and re-read my codex sometime, been so long I hardly have to touch the thing these days.


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## LOKI_DE (Dec 30, 2008)

Yh the 3+ cover is gd but watch out for heavy flamers they screw us over so bad its not even funny. LOL i havent looked at my codex in a while either , i looked at it today and found the awesomness that is horrofex's .


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## spidie2000 (Nov 21, 2008)

Yes 5 points to slap a horrorfex on a vehicle, or 15 for a troop to carry a terrorfex. If I have points to spare I try to throw them on some raiders as its cheap upgrade and comes in handy especially if you get a weapon destroyed, or you have disintegrators that you would be shooting at troops.


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## LOKI_DE (Dec 30, 2008)

Or you pin them on the last turn and stop them moving onto one of your objectives. 5 pts is filthy .


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

According to the wargear description, as well as the Enemies of the Imperium armybuilder, models in skyboards get a 5+ invulnerable jink save vs, shooting.
Hellions also have hit and run, and are Str 4 on the first round of melee.
Personally, I use them to melee units that I run them and Jetbikes up against. The Hellions and Jebikes shoot a unit, the Hellions then assault while the jetbikes go elsewhere.
Then again, I give 2 jetbikes Blasters, so they're pretty effective at shooting things. Especially vehicles and terminators.
Hellions are also good for keeping large units from shooting at you while you run up Wyches to melee with them.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Including the fact HorrorFexes are defensive weapons, and can fire after moving 6"

Pinning is good.


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## FuriousCurioso (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm thinking of a Shredder laden squad for countercharges. Just one sticking point that will either confirm or deny wether or not I will use them is...Can you guys tell me if they can rapidfire their rifles 'and' charge in the same turn or not?


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

FuriousCurioso said:


> I'm thinking of a Shredder laden squad for countercharges. Just one sticking point that will either confirm or deny wether or not I will use them is...Can you guys tell me if they can rapidfire their rifles 'and' charge in the same turn or not?



No, you can only shoot once, then charge.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

No, you're incorrect about the rapid fire. You cannot fire AT ALL and still assault. That is the bane of the Rapid Fire weapon.


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## FuriousCurioso (Mar 1, 2009)

Vrykolas2k said:


> No, you can only shoot once, then charge.


If you use a rapidfire weapon, usually even if you fire once you can't charge. So that doesn't make sense, anyone else think the same or differently?


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## spidie2000 (Nov 21, 2008)

another reason why jetbikes are superior, bikes can rapid fire and still assault.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Creon said:


> No, you're incorrect about the rapid fire. You cannot fire AT ALL and still assault. That is the bane of the Rapid Fire weapon.




Guess that's a new edition rule change I'm not familiar with.


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## FuriousCurioso (Mar 1, 2009)

Creon said:


> No, you're incorrect about the rapid fire. You cannot fire AT ALL and still assault. That is the bane of the Rapid Fire weapon.


The confusion being that in the Hellglaive entry it says you can use the Rifle and the Glaive in the same turn. So, I'm still unsure about how that works exactly. :shok:


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## LOKI_DE (Dec 30, 2008)

I think hellions have punishers now as hellglaives were pointless but we are 21 pts or sommat thts wat i read somewhere dont take ma word for it , ask Gw staff members.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Veeery interesting. You are correct, and it states that you can use the Hellglaive both as a Splinter rifle and HTH in the same turn. But, current edition rapid fire says you're not allowed to assault in a turn you've fired a Rapid-fire weapon, even if it was a single shot. Since, unfortunately, it doesn't specifically allow for assaulting after using a rapid fire weapon in the Hellglaive entry, the 5th edition rules make the ability to use the Hellglaive as a HTH weapon after firing moot, as you can't charge after firing the rifle. They WERE supposed to be modified to use Punishers, but that wasn't accepted.


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## LOKI_DE (Dec 30, 2008)

ahhh fail at least tht would make a little worth while


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Creon said:


> Veeery interesting. You are correct, and it states that you can use the Hellglaive both as a Splinter rifle and HTH in the same turn. But, current edition rapid fire says you're not allowed to assault in a turn you've fired a Rapid-fire weapon, even if it was a single shot. Since, unfortunately, it doesn't specifically allow for assaulting after using a rapid fire weapon in the Hellglaive entry, the 5th edition rules make the ability to use the Hellglaive as a HTH weapon after firing moot, as you can't charge after firing the rifle. They WERE supposed to be modified to use Punishers, but that wasn't accepted.



BUT...
Doesn't the codex rule still hold sway, where applicable?


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Hellions are equipped with Punishers as of the Codex update.

meaning a unit of 8 puts out 16 str 4 power weapon attacks on the charge...at Initiative 6!

perfect for chopping up Eldar/guardsmen!

with such a high initiative, they can go for tougher things like Eldar aspect warriors. Banshees and Striking scorpions are pretty much always present...so go get them, and you hit first! careful of Banshee Exarchs with executioners though...


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## FuriousCurioso (Mar 1, 2009)

Orochi said:


> Hellions are equipped with Punishers as of the Codex update.
> 
> meaning a unit of 8 puts out 16 str 4 power weapon attacks on the charge...at Initiative 6!
> 
> ...


That sounds amazing! Not trying to debunk this but its not in this FAQ...

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16964

Can you please point me to your source so I can use them like you said? :alcoholic:


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Furioso is right there is no place in the De codex or GW released FAQ/Errata to suggest they have punishers now, and unfortunately we cnnot shoot and charge as the DE hellions were one unit forgotten about when the new rules came out in 5th and so they got screwed around - much like our webway. BUT they have one + the wargear part in the codex doesn't say the effects of the hellion board are already included in the profile and hence you gain +1 to your Save meaning that Hellions have a 4+ save not a 5+. As said DE will be getting redone as it's a little unfair to make units in the game no longer work properly and so therefore GW are working on it, in saying that though it would be good if the Hellglaive counted as a power weapon at S3 normally and S4 for 1st turn of CC when we charge, hellions then would rival that of banshees as they move quicker and are cheaper with a 4+ SV and 5+ Invul SV when they move.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

http://downloads.weblogger.com/gems/blackship/dark_eldar_codex_update.pdf

bottom of the 1st page i think

given to me via someone over the GW line

enjoy the news!


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## FuriousCurioso (Mar 1, 2009)

As much as I hate to say it, that looks a bit like a fansite and not an official errata from GW. :cray:


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## solkan (Apr 24, 2008)

The problem with the Helions is that they got their last update just around the time that 4th edition came out and added the prohibition against rapid firing and charging, and noone thought to retrofit a relentless like ability onto the unit. That's really all it would take to make them impressive again.


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## spidie2000 (Nov 21, 2008)

Orochi said:


> http://downloads.weblogger.com/gems/blackship/dark_eldar_codex_update.pdf
> 
> bottom of the 1st page i think
> 
> ...


yeah if they actually do have punishers that would make me change my mind about them. However this is just some trial rules from a GW dev team, none of this is official and would stand in a current tournament. Maybe if your friends are nice they would let you use these rules in a home game. Maybe some of this is what we can expect in the far off codex.

"In order to encourage a little
more flexibility and variety, Andy Hoare and Phil Kelly have come up with these trial modifications."


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

This trial update looks old as half these changes such as lelith now being 90pts is in the second edition release of the DE codex which is the current one - The one that has skull stamp on the front as a re-release which has been sold since 2000/01 so it looks as some may still have the old dex as there is no arcan wargear in the old DE dex but in the re-release there is. So therefore this trial update is useless.


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## FuriousCurioso (Mar 1, 2009)

solkan said:


> The problem with the Helions is that they got their last update just around the time that 4th edition came out and added the prohibition against rapid firing and charging, and noone thought to retrofit a relentless like ability onto the unit. That's really all it would take to make them impressive again.


Hell, if I could rapidfire their Str3 Rifles then charge, thats all it would take to get me going with them.


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## FuriousCurioso (Mar 1, 2009)

Blue Liger said:


> This trial update looks old as half these changes such as lelith now being 90pts is in the second edition release of the DE codex which is the current one - The one that has skull stamp on the front as a re-release which has been sold since 2000/01 so it looks as some may still have the old dex as there is no arcan wargear in the old DE dex but in the re-release there is. So therefore this trial update is useless.


Unfortunately I have to agree but how sick would that be if they all had Punishers? That tidbit alone would reignite interest in our army en masse as its just that sick...


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

sorry guys, I dont have the re-release codex

and i used those at my local GW and no questions were raised?

so, i'd say just say they have punishers, it would justify their horrendous points cost and actually make them worth taking.

Still, New Dex means New hope right?


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Sorry guys, I dont have the codex re-release so i presumed that is was all A.O.K.

however, new codex means new hope right?

EDIT: Sorry about the double post, my comp spazzed and didnt send the first....and then sent both posts at the same time


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I've seen that, and it's all the upgrades made in the "2nd Edition" codex, EXCEPT that the Hellions get punishers, and that Wytch save is 5+ invlun in HTH, but the 2nd ED says 4+.


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## spidie2000 (Nov 21, 2008)

Yeah I'm suprised your local GW lets you use those rules as it is not correct... just need the 2.5 edition codex


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

They made a lot of handy pieces of war-gear useless in 5th; Gruesome Talismans, anyone?
Why, is beyond my ken... 
And it's hard to find anyone to play a 3rd edition game with, because it's not new and shiny.
I swear, most gamers remind me of ferrets.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Considering most get rid of old rulebooks before new ones come out to make money on them, to buy the new one coming out.


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## tastytaste (Mar 31, 2009)

Those rules are obviously the test rules before the 2nd of the codex was released and they went back on the Punisher thing. As for Helions I would never use them unless they are supporting a charge and providing cover to flootslogging warriors.


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## FuriousCurioso (Mar 1, 2009)

tastytaste said:


> Those rules are obviously the test rules before the 2nd of the codex was released and they went back on the Punisher thing. As for Helions I would never use them unless they are supporting a charge and providing cover to flootslogging warriors.


Well, I like the models but in their current incarnation I wont exactly be rushing out to get some anytime soon.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm getting one for Lord on Skyboard purposes.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Remember gents, only army lists go in the army list sections. If you're looking for tactics help, this is where it belongs. 

Katie D


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## FuriousCurioso (Mar 1, 2009)

Creon said:


> I'm getting one for Lord on Skyboard purposes.


Yeah, Might do a Haemie on one but will prolly do the whole thing custom, good for hopping out from behind something with destructor I'm thinking.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

That's how I run mine go for 6 Haemonculus on Skyboards with scissorhand and destructor combo have all 6 fly around by themselves and you have stall units with a 4+ save and a 5+ Invul save


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