# How much would it take to wipe out the Tau?



## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Okay, so this is a fairly straight-forward question. Currently the Tau are still a fairly minor empire only recently becoming a player on the galactic stage. As such, they're still massively outnumbered by races such as the Orks or the Human Imperium. My question is, how many Imperial forces do you guys think it would take to wipe the Tau out before they become a major threat and how long do you guys think it would take to accomplish this? Or alternatively, what kind of plan could be made to have another race do the dirty work for them (like Kryptman did with the Leviathan hive-fleet)? Also, remember that the Tau have a number of other races as allies (for example the Vespid, Kroot and Demiurg just to name a few we know of, not to mention some blank-shooting humans who could be valuable in terms of providing information on the Imperium) that they can call upon if they need to. So what do you guys think? What kind of scale operation are we talking here?

I'm asking this question coz' I've always wondered why the Imperium doesn't just wipe them out while they're still only a nuisance (I mean, why risk them becoming more), so I'm thinking maybe it'll require too much resources and manpower etc. Anyway, your opinions would be much appreciated.


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## GhostDog (Apr 16, 2010)

The Imperium may have thought the Tau were nuisance before the Damocles Crusade, but I think they quickly learnt that they are more than that now. One of the reasons that their empire is so small is because they don't have great warp travel abilities.

In answer to your question, I think it would take several SM chapters (maybe 3 or more) and twice as many companies of IG (maybe 2 or more battlefleets as well).
The ability for the Tau to adapt is greater than the typical Imperial general in my opinion. This would make it harder for the Imperials to win.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

If the imperium wanted to, they could utterly destroy the Tau with very little effort. The problem is that they aren't, at the current time, a major threat and don't warrant the man power it would take. Another problem is that the imperium is already scrambling to defend itself right now, they can't afford to waist good men and marines on the Tau.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Marbo.
That is all.


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## Abomination (Jul 6, 2008)

I imagine it would take a force at least double in strength than that of the Damocles Crusade. The Imperium were stalled by the Tau then (before being forced to leave due more pressing threats) and the Tau are now stronger.

I don't think the Imperium has the manpower or resources to wipe out the Tau currently due to all the other threats they are facing. 


(Although personally I reckon Space Wolves could do the job in a day, especially if I was leading them)


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

GhostDog said:


> In answer to your question, I think it would take several SM chapters (maybe 3 or more) and twice as many companies of IG (maybe 2 or more battlefleets as well).


3 or more Chapters & a couple of IG regiments really isn't that much if you consider that there are a 1000 chapters and millions of IG regiments. If that's all it took then they could just as well simply ask the Black Templars to do it on their own with maybe some minor backup (and then you're only using one chapter out of a thousand not to mention the Inquisition would probably see it as a good way to decrease their numbers a bit).



gen.ahab said:


> If the imperium wanted to, they could utterly destroy the Tau with very little effort. The problem is that they aren't, at the current time, a major threat and don't warrant the man power it would take. Another problem is that the imperium is already scrambling to defend itself right now, they can't afford to waist good men and marines on the Tau.


But that's the point. If I was ruling the Imperium I'd wanna squash them before they could become a serious threat. Coz' think about it, it's just gonna be more difficult to get rid of them once they're in a stronger, more dominant position.


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## Crude (Mar 15, 2009)

I think it's simply a matter of being spread too thin. With the orks, tyranids, chaos, etc. bombarding them on all sides, the imperium just can't do it. Of course if they weren't dealing with all that kinda shit, the tau wouldn't be a problem.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

IMO: 
The Imperium could easily wipe the Tau out, but as others have said the Tau aren't as big of an immediate threat than the other Xenos. From what I've read most of the Imperium see the Tau as more of a nuisance than a threat. No matter what it would take to wipe the Tau out would leave an opening for orks and nids to exploit.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

In the Last Chancers it was mention that a single Hive World had the Manpower to take out a Tau World. However there is talks between Tau and the Imperium, the Tau would have been dead already if the Hive Kraken hadnt reared its head, but since it did the Imperium felt they could save their manpower for the threat and the Tau would be wiped out/weaken the Hive Fleet. They let the Tau live for a win win situation. Unfortunatly for them the Tau prove against all odss to survive Kraken and SLOWLY still brance out their empire. It should be pointed out that the Tau Etherials know the Imperium could wipe them out with little effort, and they have measures to keep from being to much of a annoyance. Unfortunatly Generals like Commander Farsight and Brightsword make that hard. So hard that the Tau have sanction their assassination.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

I don't think they are that minor a threat, otherwise, as has been pointed out, they would have been curb-stomped as a matter of principle before they could encroach further and become a larger threat. 

Make no mistake - the Tau would lose. But I think the fluff established that it would be too costly and long a campaign, which would have the effect of both weakening imperial readiness in the whole segmentum and wasting resources on a possibly monumental scale (in the fluff at least, the Tau are -very- adept at depelting enemy armor and supplies).

So, by definition, not easy. 

I think the only real alternative would be to throw a -grossly- exagerated attack force, on Black Crusade response levels: 20+ space marine chapters, virus-bomb planets left and right to make a quick way to T'au itself. Anything other than that would take too long and risk too much from other threats using the opportunity.


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

Precisely.

You have to understand the concept of _opportunity cost_. 'We could do X, but if we do, we can't do Y.'

The Imperium could annihilate the Tau - but only at the expense of letting the 'nids rampage around Ultima Segmentum more or less unchhecked. It would be a long, long campaign, probably a century or more.

That's what the Imperium and the Tau think, at any rate.

There are hints in the fluff that the Tau were uplifted and their culture shaped by the Eldar - probably as the ultimate weapon against Chaos, or the Necrons, or the 'nids, or even the Imperium - who knows why the Eldar do anything? The Eldar don't do things like that for fun though, and they never leave anything to chance.

If the Imperium really did decide to do something about the Tau then the Eldar would likely protect their investment.

Thus the Imperium find themselves facing the Eldar as well - and of course, the Eldar are more than capable of manipulating Orks, 'nids and even 'crons into fighting for them if need be.

The Imperium don't know that, though. so far as they are concerned, the tau are a threat, but less so than the 'nids and 'crons.


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

KingOfCheese said:


> Marbo.
> That is all.



Marbo is currently dealing with the nids. When he's done, there's no logical reason why he shouldn't be able to take out the tau.

Edit;
My bad. That's not realistic. 

Straken would have to help as well.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Tau was made as the fourth race to counter the threat of chaos, Eldar were made to defeat the C't'an but they brought problems in the form of chaos, the orcs and humans were made as a quick and vastly faster way to fight the C'tan since Eldar take to long.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Azezel said:


> There are hints in the fluff that the Tau were uplifted and their culture shaped by the Eldar - probably as the ultimate weapon against Chaos, or the Necrons, or the 'nids, or even the Imperium - who knows why the Eldar do anything? The Eldar don't do things like that for fun though, and they never leave anything to chance.


UGH!!!! Why is this pos home fluff always brought up.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Tau was made as the fourth race to counter the threat of chaos, Eldar were made to defeat the C't'an but they brought problems in the form of chaos, the orcs and humans were made as a quick and vastly faster way to fight the C'tan since Eldar take to long.


Except humans weren't created, our incredibly distant ancestors were tinkered with but that's as far it went because the Enslaver Plague overtook the Galaxy.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Has anyone considered the alternative that I mentioned about getting another race to do the job? Like maybe diverting an Ork Waaagh at the Tau Empire? I'd like to see how well the Tau fair against the kind of forces the Imperium had to face at Armageddon, especially if you have someone like Ghazghkull leading them. Though to be honest, the Orks would probably find the Tau poor sport, in all likelyhood viewing them as a bunch of weakling cowards who suck at melee and have to resort to stealth technology and long range fighting to have any chance at winning. Still, it could be interesting.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

locustgate said:


> UGH!!!! Why is this pos home fluff always brought up.


It's not home fluff, Eldrad Ulthran did say the Tau were linked to the Eldar but that the Tau were the people of the future, of course that's before he got his soul sucked out.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

chuck norrises sneeze.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

aboytervigon said:


> chuck norrises sneeze.


And then what? He traps all the ethereals in his beard?


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## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

The tau are a tiny little footnote on the imperiums epic ass. They could Destroy them whenever they feel like it but other more pressing matters are getting more attention like the tyranids.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

warsmith7752 said:


> The tau are a tiny little footnote on the imperiums epic ass.


I would have gone with pimple, but anyway. So the idea I'm getting from the posts is that the Tau are currently so small of a threat that with all the other big bads roaming around (like the Nids, Orks, Crons etc.) the Tau simply aren't worth the Imperium's time.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> It's not home fluff, Eldrad Ulthran did say the Tau were linked to the Eldar but that the Tau were the people of the future, of course that's before he got his soul sucked out.


Where in the name of the sweet fluff gods does it say that... The only time i've seen this is on this and several other forums that never have sauce.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

The answer is too easy.

Just Tell Jason Statham that the Tau have injected a chemical in him that if he has no adrenaline, then he dies. Then tell him that the cure can be only achieved if he kills the entire Tau race. The job will be accomplished in about... oh lets say two days?


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## Waaagh_Bong (Aug 10, 2010)

locustgate said:


> Where in the name of the sweet fluff gods does it say that... The only time i've seen this is on this and several other forums that never have sauce.


i would like to know.


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

Xenology, plus a few other hints here and there, not least in the Tau codex (I forget which one).

Anyway - the idea goes that some thousands of years ago (in other words, well within living memory for a the Eldar) - the Eldar took the genes for pheremone glands from some sort of nasty insect monster and implanted them in the face of what would become the Etherial cast.

From that point on, with a combination of gene-tampering and nudging the strands of fate here and there, the Eldar have been shaping everything about the Tau, no just their biology, but their civilisation.

This accounts for the Tau's extraordinarily fast progress from pointy-stick technology to railguns. It also accounts for their morphologically distinct castes and their highly useful lack of warp-presence.

Tau players don't like the idea, but I don't fully understand why not. I'm an Eldar player and I don't throw a hissy fit when reminded that the Old Ones shaped he Eldar.

It's all rather symetrical. The Old ones shaped the Eldar to fight their enemies, the Eldar shaped the Tau. Give them a few millenia and who knows what the Tau might make of the Kroot, or the Vespids?

The Eldar, of course, fully accept that the Tau will surpass and survive them, just as they surpassed and survived the Old Ones.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Waaagh_Bong said:


> i would like to know.


During the 13th Black Crusade summer campaigns in codex eye of terror.

"I have followed the myriad potential futures of the Tau with great interest. Though barely even striplings compared to us, I feel a strange protectiveness towards them. In time I believe they will exceed even our greatest feats and master the darkness within their souls." - Eldrad Ulthran


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Azezel said:


> You have to understand the concept of _opportunity cost_. 'We could do X, but if we do, we can't do Y.'


That pretty much sums up the debate.



Chompy Bits said:


> only recently becoming a player on the galactic stage.


They're not even that. They maintain a miniscule empire on the eastern fringes, hardly a player on the galactic stage.



Words_of_Truth said:


> Tau was made as the fourth race to counter the threat of chaos


I presume you mean by the Old Ones. If so the Tau are by no means the 'fourth race' - considering the Old Ones seeded and manipulated countless races and species. It's also fairly unlikely the Old Ones had anything to do with the Tau, considering the enslaver plague and the subsequent fall of the Old Ones occured around 60,000,000 years prior to the rise of the Tau civilisation. 



Words_of_Truth said:


> ...humans were made as a quick and vastly faster way to fight the C'tan since Eldar take to long.


Humanity wasn't created by the Old Ones (again presuming that's who you are talking about), our distant ancestors were in some form manipulated by them, but that's as far as it goes. Also, how were humans more of a 'quick and vastly faster' way to combat the C'tan, and what the hell do you mean by 'the Eldar take too long'...?



Words_of_Truth said:


> It's not home fluff, Eldrad Ulthran did say the Tau were linked to the Eldar but that the Tau were the people of the future, of course that's before he got his soul sucked out.


Not that I am aware of. He merely said he views the Tau with great interest, or something to that effect. That by no means links the Tau to the Eldar. The only subtle link we have is in _Xenology_ I believe, which implies that the Eldar had a hand in the Ethereal organ which allows pheromonal communication. 

EDIT:



Words_of_Truth said:


> During the 13th Black Crusade summer campaigns in codex eye of terror.
> 
> "I have followed the myriad potential futures of the Tau with great interest. Though barely even striplings compared to us, I feel a strange protectiveness towards them. In time I believe they will exceed even our greatest feats and master the darkness within their souls." - Eldrad Ulthran


Thats the quote I had in mind as well, but how on Earth does that quote link the Tau to the Eldar? I think your reading too far into it.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Azezel said:


> Xenology, plus a few other hints here and there, not least in the Tau codex (I forget which one).
> 
> Anyway - the idea goes that some thousands of years ago (in other words, well within living memory for a the Eldar) - the Eldar took the genes for pheremone glands from some sort of nasty insect monster and implanted them in the face of what would become the Etherial cast.
> 
> ...


It doesn't say squat in either dex's at most it says flickers of light in the sky....during a warp storm....another thing is the tau and eldar have completely different weapons and technologies. If the eldar created the etherals and helped the tau, then why didn't they give the tau the ability to enter the webway. Why didn't they make the etherals psykers. 
The old gods were more advanced and awesome....the eldar a bunch of sissies.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Their tech didn't surpass the old ones. The only thing that Surpassed them were the necrons.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> That pretty much sums up the debate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They have a strange protectiveness over them and think they will eventually surpass the Eldar in the future? Pretty strong link considering Eldar are known to be very xenophobic, big jump from hating aliens to wanting to protect them.

Eldar take ages to learn and grow old become experienced, humans are born and within 16 years can be put to work which on a galactic scale is pretty insignificant as well as the fact they procreate at a pretty fast level to, Eldar on the other hand afaik are dwindling in numbers, despite their best efforts.

Also when I said forth race, I was on about important races, not subspecies and lesser beings.

I disagree with the idea the Eldar created the Tau tho, I prefer the idea it was a Old one who fled to the fringes of space and shielded them from the rest of the galaxy by using the warp as he knew the warp would have no corrupting influence over them.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> They have a strange protectiveness over them and think they will eventually surpass the Eldar in the future? Pretty strong link considering Eldar are known to be very xenophobic, big jump from hating aliens to wanting to protect them.


Firstly that's Eldrad saying that, not the entire Eldar race. I doubt that Biel-Tan for example would feel any sort of affection or protectiveness over the Tau. 

Eldrad thinks the Tau may well surpass the Eldar at somepoint in the future? Perhaps he's just being pragmatic rather than implying any kind of connection between the two species.



Words_of_Truth said:


> Eldar on the other hand afaik are dwindling in numbers, despite their best efforts.


That is primarily due to the Fall rather than any genetical tamperings by the Old Ones.



Words_of_Truth said:


> I disagree with the idea the Eldar created the Tau tho, I prefer the idea it was a Old one who fled to the fringes of space and shielded them from the rest of the galaxy by using the warp as he knew the warp would have no corrupting influence over them.


Well obviously that is a fairly far-flung (fan) theory, which has no basis in the lore. But on a side note, the Tau are capable of being corrupted by Chaos, they still have souls and register a warp presence, just a very insignificant one compared to humanity or most other races.


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

locustgate said:


> It doesn't say squat in either dex's at most it says flickers of light in the sky....during a warp storm....another thing is the tau and eldar have completely different weapons and technologies. If the eldar created the etherals and helped the tau, then why didn't they give the tau the ability to enter the webway. Why didn't they make the etherals psykers.
> The old gods were more advanced and awesome....the eldar a bunch of sissies.


IF (and I admit it's not certain) the Eldar created the Tau - the whole point is that they are NOT Psykers.

And the Tau don't have access to the webway for the same reason my cat doesn't have access to my car - she doesn't need it and couldn't use it if she did.

As for Tau technology, it is very similar to Eldar tech. the Tau cannot use wraithbone (no Psykers), but both Tau and Eldar use plasma weapons, railguns (Shuriken catapults work on the same principle), homing missiles, skimmers, you-name-it. The only thing unique to the Tau is AI and possibly Ion weaponry.


It's not certain that the Tau are proteges of the Eldar, and even if they are, the Tau don't know it - but it's far from impossible, given what we know of each race.

I msuspect that GW will never confirm or deny it, so everyone can make up their own minds, happy?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Azezel said:


> As for Tau technology, it is very similar to Eldar tech. the Tau cannot use wraithbone (no Psykers), but both Tau and Eldar use plasma weapons, railguns (Shuriken catapults work on the same principle), homing missiles, skimmers, you-name-it. The only thing unique to the Tau is AI and possibly Ion weaponry.


Humans have plasma weapons, homing missles, skimmers(some), AND psykers, does that mean the were created by the eldar?


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

No. You said that tau and Eldar weapons technology was completely different - I was merely pointing out that the differences are not so radical.

I have little interest in making you believe one or other possible option for the background of our toy soldiers - however, you did ask where the idea arose and why people kept bringing it up - that's all I've endervoured to answer:

The idea arose in Xenology, and a couple of hints here and there like that Eldrad quote.

People keep bringing it up because it sounds plausable* given what is known.

*'Plausable' is a flexible word in a game where fifty soldiers can settle ownership of a planet by having a swordfight with chainsaws.


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## Yllib Enaz (Jul 15, 2010)

Azezel said:


> The only thing unique to the Tau is AI and possibly Ion weaponry.


AI constructs such as drones are almost like a non psyker version of the Eldar wraith guard and lord idea, just more expendable.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Azezel said:


> The only thing unique to the Tau is AI and possibly Ion weaponry.


I thought the Tau got their Ion technology from the Demiurg.


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## Waaagh_Bong (Aug 10, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> During the 13th Black Crusade summer campaigns in codex eye of terror.
> 
> "I have followed the myriad potential futures of the Tau with great interest. Though barely even striplings compared to us, I feel a strange protectiveness towards them. In time I believe they will exceed even our greatest feats and master the darkness within their souls." - Eldrad Ulthran


thank you!


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Azezel said:


> And the Tau don't have access to the webway for the same reason my cat doesn't have access to my car - she doesn't need it and couldn't use it if she did.


Except of course you don't need to be a psyker or use a warp drive to navigate through the Webway, so Tau would be fully capable of using- in fact that's why the Emperor was so intent on claiming the Webway, in order to free humanity from reliance on psykers.


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## AdonisGallus (Sep 19, 2010)

I don't think the Imperium could afford to commit the actual amount of forces that it would need to completely destroy the Tau out right. 

If it were up to me, I'd enlist Astartes chapters with a specialty in fast attack, and assault. Blood Angels, White Scars, Raven Guard, the Salamanders, Space wolves, Black Templar. 

The Imperial Guard forces would need to be made up of storm troopers and the most elite that they could offer, who would also need to be able to perform lightning attacks on the tau held planets.

The overall force would need to be supported by a huge battle fleet. 

The Tau don’t work well without the leadership of the Ethereal, if the Imperial forces can hit the Tau fast enough and cut out their leadership it might break the various allies of the Tau Empire apart and send them into a civil war that this time would doom their race.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

AdonisGallus said:


> The Tau don’t work well without the leadership of the Ethereal, if the Imperial forces can hit the Tau fast enough and cut out their leadership it might break the various allies of the Tau Empire apart and send them into a civil war that this time would doom their race.


Hmmm... what if they send in some Callidus assassins to infiltrate the Ethereal cast and kill them and when the Tau are in disarray launch a Black Templar crusade backed up with a few Deathwatch squads and an Imperial fleet?


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm going to add my own two cents on this whole debate :

(1) I think its pretty clear that the Eldar has nothing to do with creating the Tau. The Tau's own fluff (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that they were a primitive society when the imperium first discovered them, then the Heresy struck, and when they finally returned to the area the Tau had evolved rapidly. If through some fluff miracle the Eldar did create the Tau, that would just be boring, just let the Tau be the Tau. The Eldar IMO are interested in the Tau whom they view with alot more promise than the Mon Keigh, but don't forget that even a few Eldar believe that humans could be changed as well. Also remember the Eldar are not a benevolent race, they obliterated entire species on a whim and still actively seek a return to prominance and I personally imagine will use anyone they can to defeat Chaos thereby saving THEMSELVES.

(2) Everyone needs to stop thinking this is 30k at the height of the Imperium's expansion. All of the comments that say 'it would be so easy for the Imperium to crush the Tau' or 'they can just snap their fingers and they are history' need to wake up to the fact that, when you say yourselves that the Imperium doesn't have the resources to concentrate on defeating the Tau, then they can't defeat the Tau lol. You can't say 'oh, if only we could spare a few chapters here and a few guard armies there you guys would be toast' the fact is they can't. Leaving that aside the Tau are suprisingly tenacious and I'd say have learnt alot from their encounters with the SM and IG.

(3) I hope all these comments about assassinating the Etheral caste are a joke. Yeah that would be soooo realistic, (in the context of 40k) to just send a few assassins, who can just whipe out the ENTIRE Etheral cast. I'm not saying they couldn't do damage, but if your going to talk about something, try suggesting things that are a little less grandiose i.e. vindicator, callidus etc assassins whipe out some of the Etherals, thereby sowing confusion and forcing the others to remain less visible etc etc.

Finally I'm just suprised in general for the lack of respect the Tau are getting here. I am in no way a Tau fan (although I think they are a great addition to 40k) I just think there is far too much Imperial love going on in Heresy atm. What I mean by that is, not that you can't support the Emperor or the Imperium of Man, just that people really need to understand just how desperate they are at the moment. 

Abaddon is tying up huge amounts of resources at Cadia, the Tyranid Fleet sightings seem to be increasing, the Orks are always around ready to Waaaggghhh, both the Eldars are always a threat, and the Necrons are just waking up and to top it all off the Imperium is an incredibly divided place full of intrigue and competition, thats why they rely so heavily on the 'Emperor Myth' so they can hold everyone together. 

If the Imperium was Ancient Rome, all you Senators out there need to understand that the glory days of conquest are long over, I'm afraid the Barbarians are definately at the gates. All of the enemies of the Imperium have the one single most powerful thing that the Imperium lacks, time.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> Except of course you don't need to be a psyker or use a warp drive to navigate through the Webway, so Tau would be fully capable of using- in fact that's why the Emperor was so intent on claiming the Webway, in order to free humanity from reliance on psykers.


Actually, I recall several sources where the webway is activated by farseers. The previos codex, and I think PotW (not 100% on that), what exactly has you informed that anyone can use it? I think the Emperor was more concerned with the unreliability of warp travel. I get the impression that eliminating the need for psykers was a secondary concern, considering how tolerant of them he was. 



Chompy Bits said:


> Hmmm... what if they send in some Callidus assassins to infiltrate the Ethereal cast and kill them and when the Tau are in disarray launch a Black Templar crusade backed up with a few Deathwatch squads and an Imperial fleet?


Wouldn`t work. Them kroot hounds, they can sniff `em out up close. You`d need vindicares. :grin:


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

D-A-C said:


> The Tau's own fluff (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that they were a primitive society when the imperium first discovered them, then the Heresy struck, and when they finally returned to the area the Tau had evolved rapidly..


You're a couple thousand years out. The Tau were first discovered in M35 by the Adpetus Mechanicus, then that area of space was surrounded by a warp storm which isolated them from the rest of the galaxy for 6000 years. That warp storm saved their asses coz' you can be damn sure the Imperium would have wiped them out then and there, while the Tau were still busy throwing sticks at each other, if it wasn't for that storm.

Also, I think people aren't giving the Tau much respect because of the fact that they're still such a miniscule empire. I mean, have you looked at the 40k galaxy maps. The Tau are nothing but a speck on the eastern fringe. Also, I personally hate armies who suck badly at close combat which is another reason why I'm not a fan of the Tau. But that's just me.


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## Brother Arnold (Aug 29, 2010)

Chompy Bits said:


> You're a couple thousand years out. The Tau were first discovered in M35 by the Adpetus Mechanicus, then that area of space was surrounded by a warp storm which isolated them from the rest of the galaxy for 6000 years. That warp storm saved their asses coz' you can be damn sure the Imperium would have wiped them out then and there, while the Tau were still busy throwing sticks at each other, if it wasn't for that storm.
> 
> Also, I think people aren't giving the Tau much respect because of the fact that they're still such a miniscule empire. I mean, have you looked at the 40k galaxy maps. The Tau are nothing but a speck on the eastern fringe. Also, I personally hate armies who suck badly at close combat which is another reason why I'm not a fan of the Tau. But that's just me.


Wouldn't that be some motivation for the Imperium to try and wipe out the Tau? Surely six millennia in a warp storm would make the Imperium think, "They're tainted by Chaos, therefore they are Chaos, humans who join the Tau are also Chaos, all their mercenaries are Chaos, six millennia in a warp storm is large exposure to Chaos, and so the Tau are Chaos." Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that make Tau the 40k equivalent of Beastmen (They have hooves, they don't have much in the way of joining Black Crusades) in the Imperium's eyes?


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## jfvz (Oct 23, 2010)

Blah, why is every1 going on about how much the imperium in its prime would take 2 whip out the tau. There are other races, the nids for example if a hive fleet (think kraken) came in at a slightly diff spot they would have whipped them off the face of the galixy, but they didnt.

The Imperium and tau teamed up 2 defeat a minor hive fleet (think just splinter) that had ravenged the tau sector, they beat back the last of nids then the imperial commander assumed the tau week cause they couldn't beat the hive fleet themselves. The tau weathered and beat that commander after being weakened by the hive fleet so i dont think they will be as easy as people think 2 take out.

I am by no means a fan of tau, i just give them the respect i think they deserve


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

AdonisGallus said:


> The Tau don’t work well without the leadership of the Ethereal, if the Imperial forces can hit the Tau fast enough and cut out their leadership it might break the various allies of the Tau Empire apart and send them into a civil war that this time would doom their race.


Im going by game mechanics, after they are demorilised they get pissed. The Tau aren't completely useless without the Ethereals in combat. Their allies aren't affected.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Tau are the least of the Imperium's problems. The enemy you don't know is worse than the enemy you know and so I think the Imperium has just accepted the Tau for the time being, they will actually help fight the Nids in their own way and can be kind of relied upon not to do anything massively stupid compared to the other races the Imperium has to worry about.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> Actually, I recall several sources where the webway is activated by farseers. The previos codex, and I think PotW (not 100% on that), what exactly has you informed that anyone can use it? I think the Emperor was more concerned with the unreliability of warp travel. I get the impression that eliminating the need for psykers was a secondary concern, considering how tolerant of them he was.


Maybe some gates need to be activated by a psyker but to actually travel through it- no, anyone can do that.

The Emperor was most concerned with the corruption using the Warp left humanity open to- the Webway was intended to be the method thereby the Navigators and Astropaths were no longer a necessary part of the Imperium, so he could guide humanity slowly and carefully in to it's ascension into a psychic species. The Emperor was foremost a pragmatic man, he tolerated psykers because it was expedient to do so, as soon as it wasn't their arses would have been toast.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> The Emperor was foremost a pragmatic man, he tolerated psykers because it was expedient to do so, as soon as it wasn't their arses would have been toast.


The Emperor was a fucking hypocrite asshole. No wonder the Imperium is ruled by a bunch of pricks, just look who they've got as a rolemodel. And I suppose the Emperor thought that he alone had the awesomeness to wield psychic powers and mess with the warp safely. Look how that turned out. I mean, people say Magnus was arrogant but this guy surely takes the cake.

On another note, it seems that we've established that the Imperium simply can't afford to spend the resources required to eliminate the Tau, so what about the other races like Necs, Orks etc. I think if two or three of those bigass Nec Tomb ships had to appear in Tau space along with a few Scythe Harvest cruisers for backup then the Tau are gonna have a serious problem on their hands. Or like I mentioned earlier, an Ork waaagh on the scale of Armageddon could probably also cause some serious damage if they decided take a go at the Tau empire. The reason I mention these two is because they don't have the kind of shit to worry about like the Imperium does (Necs simply harvest life for their gods so it probably doesn't matter to them who they're fighting and Orks simply don't give a fuck, they just wanna have a good brawl). So do you guys think either of these two factions could do it?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Chompy Bits said:


> The Emperor was a fucking hypocrite asshole. No wonder the Imperium is ruled by a bunch of pricks, just look who they've got as a rolemodel. And I suppose the Emperor thought that he alone had the awesomeness to wield psychic powers and mess with the warp safely. Look how that turned out. I mean, people say Magnus was arrogant but this guy surely takes the cake.


Well when you've been around for 40,000 years or so and seen countless wars and genocides and other horrific things perpetrated by your race then it's going to turn you into a cold-blooded, ruthless bastard- the fact the Emperor still wanted to help humanity is the biggest surprise.
He knew the dangers out there, he'd been tested by them so many times and resisted that his confidence in his own powers was well justified, yet he'd seen the terrors caused by unchecked psychic potential.

A good analogy would be if you were the only person in the world who knew how to use a grenade, relatively, safely and then suddenly every other fucker was running around with one in their mouth throwing the pins at each other- you'd do your best to make them cut that shit out!



Chompy Bits said:


> On another note, it seems that we've established that the Imperium simply can't afford to spend the resources required to eliminate the Tau, so what about the other races like Necs, Orks etc. I think if two or three of those bigass Nec Tomb ships had to appear in Tau space along with a few Scythe Harvest cruisers for backup then the Tau are gonna have a serious problem on their hands. Or like I mentioned earlier, an Ork waaagh on the scale of Armageddon could probably also cause some serious damage if they decided take a go at the Tau empire. The reason I mention these two is because they don't have the kind of shit to worry about like the Imperium does (Necs simply harvest life for their gods so it probably doesn't matter to them who they're fighting and Orks simply don't give a fuck, they just wanna have a good brawl). So do you guys think either of these two factions could do it?


Yeah the concentration of the Tau Empire would be an irresistible lure for Orks if they could gather a large enough Waaagh! to make an initial dent in the Empire's territory.

Unlike with the Imperium you don't have weeks of Warp travel to get from planet to planet, your a virtual stones throw away from your next victim.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I think the Tau would decimate the orcs if they invaded, the orcs have a bad time facing them normally but on home turf they will do the same as they did to the Imperium which was to move fluidly and control the pace of the battle.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

i don't know that much about the tau but from what little i know they are tenacious warriors so it would in my opinion be difficult to wipe them out based on what i percieve as thier combat doctrine. 
like chompy said i believe the Necs would be the biggest threat to the tau and if they were to becom extinct then that would be who would do it.


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## shas'o Thraka (Jan 4, 2010)

It's, simply put, down to Imperial Bureaucracy, almost 90% of the Imperium don't even know about the Damocles Gulf crusade since the paperwork is lost somewhere in the Eye of Terror probably.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> Well when you've been around for 40,000 years or so and seen countless wars and genocides and other horrific things perpetrated by your race then it's going to turn you into a cold-blooded, ruthless bastard- the fact the Emperor still wanted to help humanity is the biggest surprise.
> He knew the dangers out there, he'd been tested by them so many times and resisted that his confidence in his own powers was well justified, yet he'd seen the terrors caused by unchecked psychic potential.


I see now. Are we completely sure that was his goal? 



Baron Spikey said:


> A good analogy would be if you were the only person in the world who knew how to use a grenade, relatively, safely and then suddenly every other fucker was running around with one in their mouth throwing the pins at each other- you'd do your best to make them cut that shit out!


:laugh: Help? Nah, let natural selection take its course! Who knows, things may have gotten better... maybe not. :headbutt:



shas'o Thraka said:


> It's, simply put, down to Imperial Bureaucracy, almost 90% of the Imperium don't even know about the Damocles Gulf crusade since the paperwork is lost somewhere in the Eye of Terror probably.


Each bit of paperwork makes it through Ahriman`s library. He sends a copy of it to the Administratum on Terra, slightly modified of course. :wink:


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

A couple of chapters combined could do it.

However, this takes those units away from other areas which are probably more in need of their utility.
Should they divert this much in the way of assets from their current roles, then the chaos fail fleets will take note of it and plunge through the gaps in the defence line. Even Failbaddon wouldn't fail again with assistance like that.

The tau will keep for now. The Imperium has bigger threats to worry about.

Besides, I'm sure the codex: Astartes has something about "not fighting a war on multiple fronts if you can avoid it" (as well as "not getting involved in land wars in asia").


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## SnoopyChicken (Sep 23, 2010)

chromedog said:


> A couple of chapters combined could do it.


That seems a tad optimistic to me. A couple of chapters to take on entire species? Especially when you consider one of the subspecies is entirely geared towards war


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

It would take the ENTIRETY of those chapters, mind. Not just a piddling few strike cruisers.

The entire strategic and support assets of the chapters would need to be mobilised en masse to deal with them. This would leave chapter domains unsupported and for the most part, reliant purely on their pdf for defence. Most of it would also NOT be coming back.

This more than anything would weaken an already failing imperium.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

chromedog said:


> It would take the ENTIRETY of those chapters, mind. Not just a piddling few strike cruisers.
> 
> The entire strategic and support assets of the chapters would need to be mobilised en masse to deal with them. This would leave chapter domains unsupported and for the most part, reliant purely on their pdf for defence. Most of it would also NOT be coming back.
> 
> This more than anything would weaken an already failing imperium.


Even then that really optimistic. Sure the SMs got great armor and pure will, but the Tau have advanced weaponry. A Hammerhead is more than enough to take out a pred and an entire squad of SMs. The Taus biggest weakness is their numbers. Each planet the SMs take will take a very heavy cost.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

It'd take more than 2 Chapters, we're talking a couple of dozen chapters at least if they're taking on the entire Tau Empire.


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## Toten (Dec 26, 2008)

In Last Chancers (Gav Thorpe), it is said by an Inquisitor that the Tau race only survived due to a warpstorm millennia ago, when the Imperium was slaughtering them step by step.
it is also said that the Imperium cannot afford a full-scale slaughter of Tau, simply because theyre stretched too thin with the Nid menace in all directions, and therefore is gonna play the "we're not friends, and not enemies.. yet." game.

It wouldnt take much to annihilate the Tau, a single Hive on a Hive World outnumbers the Tau in a sector, or more.

But unleash Colonel Schaeffer and Liutenant Kage, and I tell you, they're in deep shit and dying the worst way they can,... the tau that is


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Toten said:


> In Last Chancers (Gav Thorpe), it is said by an Inquisitor that the Tau race only survived due to a warpstorm millennia ago, when the Imperium was slaughtering them step by step.


But you gotta remember that at that time the Tau were still little more than cavemen (cave-tau?) so it isn't really a surprise that the Tau were getting slaughtered (even the IG lasriffles are better than sticks and stones). Shit, the Imperial Guard must have jizzed themselves with happiness getting to fight the primitive Tau. They were probably like, "Woo hoo, we finally get to fight someone with shittier gear than we have!"


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Chompy Bits said:


> But you gotta remember that at that time the Tau were still little more than cavemen (cave-tau?) so it isn't really a surprise that the Tau were getting slaughtered (even the IG lasriffles are better than sticks and stones). Shit, the Imperial Guard must have jizzed themselves with happiness getting to fight the primitive Tau. They were probably like, "Woo hoo, we finally get to fight someone with shittier gear than we have!"


Except the Imperium never fought the primitive Tau, the Imperial Explorator Fleet was destroyed en-route to colonise T'au by warp storms. These Warp Stroms protected the Tau from being wiped out by the Imperium for millennia, and after a while the Imperium simply forgot about it's attempts to colonise the planet with it's primitive xenos.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> Except the Imperium never fought the primitive Tau, the Imperial Explorator Fleet was destroyed en-route to colonise T'au by warp storms. These Warp Stroms protected the Tau from being wiped out by the Imperium for millennia, and after a while the Imperium simply forgot about it's attempts to colonise the planet with it's primitive xenos.


Yeah, I wasn't actually sure about that, as to my knowledge the only people who managed to encounter the early Tau and live to tell about it was the AdMech. I just assumed the guy I was replying to had his facts straight (but then again, he references _Last Chancers_ by Gave Thorpe so I guess it's a fluff mistake on the part of the author). Oh well, I guess the IG still has the shittiest soldier gear around (they're lucky they can deploy such massive numbers and have such a wide variety of powerful vehicles coz' otherwise no one would probably ever play with them.).


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Somehow I don't think the imperium would've actually fought the "cavemen tau." I'm pretty sure that had it not been for the warp storm, the Inquisition was going to have the tau homeworld scheduled for exterminatus.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Imperious Rex said:


> Somehow I don't think the imperium would've actually fought the "cavemen tau." I'm pretty sure that had it not been for the warp storm, the Inquisition was going to have the tau homeworld scheduled for exterminatus.


I don't think so. I think a manuel purge would've been more likely as the Imperium would probably have wanted to claim that planet for themselves. Exterminatus is a last resort as it pretty much wipes out any chance of acquiring new resources, not to mention it tends to make a planet inhospitable for life. It'd be much easier and less costly to just send in a space marine company and tell them to mop up the locals and then resettle it afterwards.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

I am waiting for someone to say the Tau are followers of chaos because they were saved by a warp storm....or something along that lines.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

locustgate said:


> I am waiting for someone to say the Tau are followers of chaos because they were saved by a warp storm....or something along that lines.


They ain't necessarily created by chaos and they can happen naturally as well. The Emperor has even been said to of made one that's still going.


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

locustgate said:


> I am waiting for someone to say the Tau are followers of chaos because they were saved by a warp storm....or something along that lines.


WTF? Great! Now look at what you've done. People are going to start saying that the tau are a branch of chaos and that the "greater good" is the fifth god of chaos. 
:laugh:


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> They ain't necessarily created by chaos and they can happen naturally as well. The Emperor has even been said to of made one that's still going.


....I know, I'm just waiting for someone to say it.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Words_of_Truth said:


> They ain't necessarily created by chaos and they can happen naturally as well. The Emperor has even been said to of made one that's still going.


I presume you mean the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath? That's what the Warp Storm is called but there's no evidence to suggest it was caused by the Emperor (then again there's no evidence to suggest it wasn't, ho hum)


Imperious Rex said:


> WTF? Great! Now look at what you've done. People are going to start saying that the tau are a branch of chaos and that the "greater good" is the fifth god of chaos.
> :laugh:





locustgate said:


> ....I know, I'm just waiting for someone to say it.


Where's Lux when you need him?


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## Brother Arnold (Aug 29, 2010)

*coughcough*



Brother Arnold said:


> Wouldn't that be some motivation for the Imperium to try and wipe out the Tau? Surely six millennia in a warp storm would make the Imperium think, "They're tainted by Chaos, therefore they are Chaos, humans who join the Tau are also Chaos, all their mercenaries are Chaos, six millennia in a warp storm is large exposure to Chaos, and so the Tau are Chaos." Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that make Tau the 40k equivalent of Beastmen (They have hooves, they don't have much in the way of joining Black Crusades) in the Imperium's eyes?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Er...he seems to be saying more the Imperium would see it like that, not that they are.


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