# Damned dirty fire prisms.



## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

So I play Space Marines, like everyone else...I've heard the snarky comments, yes. But I like'em. Anyway, I recently got in to the game and my friend has been consistently been obliterating my army. I know I need to modify my forces, but I'd like some opinions on the matter.

The big problem is a pair of fire prisms that always wind up making me unable to move without being blown to nice pocket sized bits from a boosted prism shot from 60" away. Well out of range of even my lascannons. My tanks always get cornered where I get wrapped up in an infantry clusterfuck to be destroyed by banshees, his wraithlord, farseer and/or his two wave serpents. Not to mention his rangers who seem to always miraculously disable my vehicles.

It's all very aggravating and making me feel I wasted my money with the current set up I have which is definitely not good for Eldar. Although I usually rape orks and the like with it. So anyone have any tips for taking out that sort of situation? Generally it is only the fire prisms that are the trouble. I could manage the rest less I roll poorly. Just throw some ideas out for me.

...oh, and our armies are just shy of an agreed 1500 limit.


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

I hate fire prisms, I also hate the eldar. I also play space marines.

the only way I have been able to take care of them is with a droppod filled with troops, a meltagun and a multi melta. also kit the seargent out with a combi melta and a powerfist.

its expensive but it can lay the hurt on it.

another option is a ven dread with twinlinked everything as much as possible.

another option is your handy dandy hunter killer missile, infinite range, just put one on every tank and dread you bring.

another option is bring a chapter master and drop your orbital bombardment on it first turn.

all these are kinda risky and not cheap.


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## dopey82 (Jul 8, 2008)

you dont have enough lascannons if you dont have at least a few in range or you are not positioning your force correctly. a multi-melta dread in a drop pod will usually take care of at least one. a sternguard with a few combi melts so you can wreck troops after blowing the tank up.


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## Justicar Auarilius (Nov 29, 2008)

Engules brings the best suggestion in my opinion.

Most space marine armies with have at least 3 tanks (at least mine and all my friends do) so you have 3 H.K. missiles, with all three your bound to kill 1 falcon, and if you can get say 2 razorbacks with H.K. missiles, and LC thats some decent anti tank for about 180 pts not bad.

Although my personal favorite option is an assault squad, you have the possibilities of powerfists, melta gun, and meltabombs. Plus most infantry you can jet past, and after you kill the tank you should be able to get them into cc with a squad next turn and leave them relatively unscathed.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Holmstrom said:


> The big problem is a pair of fire prisms that always wind up making me unable to move without being blown to nice pocket sized bits from a boosted prism shot from 60" away. Well out of range of even my lascannons.


this got me thinking, how big is your board and how much (or little) terrain do you have?, if your lascannons are out of range but there getting clear LOS from 60" away that could be the major factor


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> this got me thinking, how big is your board and how much (or little) terrain do you have?, if your lascannons are out of range but there getting clear LOS from 60" away that could be the major factor


While that may be true, it's not impossible to have a 60" range with such amount of terrain. But remember that the prisms have to be in range in order to use the twin linked ablility. 

I would suggest a drop pod with a melta, because that's probablty one of the best options. Any lascannons that fires from your table edge is sure to miss. Now I'm not saying that you will need like 6 drop pods for your entire army, but you might want to consider the one for the drop pod at least. I also believe that Assault Terminators with Thunder Hammers are a good idea too. Deep strike them, make them stay put and then charge the next turn (they should last against some enemy fire, just don't be stupid and DS them clearly in the open). 

Those are my two cents anyways.


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## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

We play on random floors with objects placed on it for 'buildings' and stuff. So needless to say he always has a place to run that are out of range of most of my lascannons. Once I get in range he either destroys my vehicle or jets away safely until it happens again. Generally speaking it pisses me off. Those damned tanks have some serious range, ridiculous accuracy and since he fields two every time he does the relay fire for a devastating shot.

I've read other suggestions going as far as to say using rhinos and other vehicles as meat shields for my land raider, but that is not only a dangerous position for my infantry but a waste of tactical time. It has been a big problem because on many occasions its hard to hide my tanks behind suitable cover, especially the land raider.

I hate the eldar. I hate them enough to ruthlessly stab one to death with an air conditioner if I ever got the chance.


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

Best way I've found to take out Fire Prisms/Falcons is a Devestator squad with four rocket launchers. You SHOULD be able to tag him with the 48" range (How BIG is that table you're on? :shok and once the tanks are in flaming wreckage switch over to frag shots to waste his fragile ground forces. My Eldar opponent hates my Rocket marines SO much he'll go after them with a passion, almost to the exclusion of the rest of my force...


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

Holmstrom said:


> We play on random floors with objects placed on it for 'buildings' and stuff. So needless to say he always has a place to run that are out of range of most of my lascannons. Once I get in range he either destroys my vehicle or jets away safely until it happens again. Generally speaking it pisses me off. Those damned tanks have some serious range, ridiculous accuracy and since he fields two every time he does the relay fire for a devastating shot.


Perhaps you need to tape off a 4' by 6' area on these "floors" so you stand half a chance- Otherwise, he's essentially cheating; Imagine if on a 4' x 6' board in a store he decided to hold the tank in the air a few feet from the edge of the board and start shooting at your marines - He'd be tossed from the store.


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## Grik (Jul 28, 2008)

Steel Nathan said:


> While that may be true, it's not impossible to have a 60" range with such amount of terrain. But remember that the prisms have to be in range in order to use the twin linked ablility.


Not true. Only the Fire Prism that will do the actual firing has to be in range of the enemy unit it will be firing at. To use the twin-linked ability, the contributing Fire Prism just has to be in Line of Sight of the firing Fire Prism. Page 43 of the Eldar Codex. It does give up it's own chance to fire when contributing though. Steel Nathan was wrong!?! :shok: Run for your lives, the sky is falling! :laugh:



Holmstrom said:


> I hate the eldar. I hate them enough to ruthlessly stab one to death with an air conditioner if I ever got the chance.


 I play Eldar but I would pay to see that. Especially since an air conditioner is a blunt object and not meant for stabbing. That's some serious hatred right there. :biggrin: (In best announcer's voice) Next up in the Gladiator Games of Heraca Hive, a foul, evil Xenos scum that is Eldar, vs the Imperium's finest, A Space Marine! Place your bets now folks! Let the Games begin!


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## Justicar Auarilius (Nov 29, 2008)

Ok well that solves the problem if you decide to make the table the entire first floor of you house then yes hell have the advantage lol

set up a normal size board because i can tell you the games i play at GW my lascannons pretty much can see end to end if theres no cover so your kinda getting jacked


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## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

Yeah. I need to finish assembling my 2 other tactical squads and pick up a devastator squad + arm with HK missiles for vehicles. I'll use army men stand ins for the devastators I guess until I buy them and see what happens.

Although I know the boards have a size at the GW shops, I honestly don't mind the challenge. As far as the models are, its an extremely difficult challenge for me to face his army. But you learn a lot from playing games like that as well. Aside from building upon my future heart attack(s) ever so steadily.

Good thing these are practice games. It's helping me a lot but I just need to blow up those homies in the fire prisms so I can have my way with his squishy eldar infantry. Well...if they are female that is. Otherwise I'll just blow them up.

On second thought I'll just blow them all up. Ill let you know what happens with the damned fire prisms.


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Grik said:


> Not true. Only the Fire Prism that will do the actual firing has to be in range of the enemy unit it will be firing at. To use the twin-linked ability, the contributing Fire Prism just has to be in Line of Sight of the firing Fire Prism. Page 43 of the Eldar Codex. It does give up it's own chance to fire when contributing though. Steel Nathan was wrong!?! :shok: Run for your lives, the sky is falling! :laugh:
> !


That's what I meant, with each other. I should've been more clear. 

Meh, wasn't the first time I'd be wrong, and it definitly won't be the last time...

There's a big difference then playing on the floor where you can go pratically anywhere, and playing on a gaming table. On a table, you should be able to hit him with your missiles and such. I feel like such an ass now (because I play Eldar ).


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## Grik (Jul 28, 2008)

Steel Nathan said:


> That's what I meant, with each other. I should've been more clear.
> 
> Meh, wasn't the first time I'd be wrong, and it definitly won't be the last time...


Lol
It's all good mate. I figured that's what you meant, just wanted to clarify it for everyone else. Don't want people playing with the wrong rules. Besides being wrong is what makes you a gamer, IF you can RECOGNIZE you were wrong. You learn from your mistakes, and become a better gamer. And alot of those mistakes are rules mistakes, IE how you think the rule reads vs how your opponent thinks the rule reads.


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## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

First of all, 40k is designed (and balanced) with the assumption that you will play on a 4x6 or 4x8 sized table edge. Larger tables will always favor the army that has a longer range. If we were playing on 4x20 tables, IG would be the best army, and basilisks would be the most powerful unit in the game. 

That being said, this table size puts you at a disadvantage against the fire prisms. You say you don't care and enjoy the challenge, but that's clearly not true since you are so frustrated from the enemy units which can take advantage of the table size.

Now to kill them:
Don't use HK missles. With 5e damage charts you have a very small chance of destroying them, about 7% per missile. Of course, really, you would only need to get a weapon destroyed result to make them useless, so that takes it up to around 15%.

My vote goes to a dread with a multimelta in a drop pod. these have a really good chance of destroying it with the multimelta, and they aren't one shot wonders. A dread in your backfield always sucks.


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## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

I always respect a challenge. Always. The second you lose respect is the second you lose forever. But whether I become frustrated or not from my lack of models is something else entirely. The respect remains regardless.

I'll be improvising with my models next time I play to see what happens.

However if the game is designed to be played on a smaller board where I would be within range with my lascannons in one move, then I would have a considerably better game on my hands. That alone may further my odds since the problem is just getting in range without the fire prisms retreating.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

If you have an infinite size play area then you will never force infantry off the table, they will just keep running and shooting and won't ever count as a kill point...

6'x4' is the best size really for normal games.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

If you don't want to limit the size of the 'table', another option would just be to place a lot more terrain. 60" range is fantastic until it comes to built up areas with no straight lines more than 40".


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

I dont get the "cant reach him part", thats very rarely an issue so Im gonna have a go at that, hope folks can get something out of my maths in the end...
It was quite a few years ago that I used this but here we go:biggrin:

Normal table size: 6x4 ft or 72x48 inch
Normal deploymentzone: 12 inch each
Presuming that you depoly a devastatorsquad in the middle of the field, 12 inch in you should have 36 inch to his table edge. Youre at the middle of the board so there is 36 inch to either side of the board. This(is where my math might decieve me) should lead to max fire distance of: 
36x36+36x36=2592 then the squaretale of that(or what the f**k its called in english, roten ur på svenska vilket du borde förstå(explanation in swedish to holmström)) which is 50.9 inch! 
Note that that number is to the very corner of the board, which at best could be one of the back-corners of the gravtanks. Add random gravtank size, which is way over 3 inch, and you should sum up that your 48 inch shooting LCs/MLs should _always_ be able to reach him on a correctly sized table:wink:
Sure they might be sitting a bit duck there, but you could always test it if you get 1st turn and shield them with Rhinos movementphase 1 from other things:good:

Good luck hunting space clowns:laugh:


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## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

Hah, thanks Maniac. My Swedish is rusty but I think I got the picture.

I suppose it isn't a huge issue if I play on a standard game table. I'd simply corner him in one or two turns...but with unlimited flooring he can take take his grav tanks 18" a move, giving him a buffer zone with much slower tanks. In an unlimited area, he would simply speed away and have room to snipe me comfortably eventually...well, sorta.

Would a speeder squadron (3) armed with multi meltas plus maybe one with an assault cannon be a reasonable investment? Granted MM have a mere 24" range, but given terrain I could perhaps use them to create kill zones for him. They can deepstrike as well, although they are much more fragile then a dread... I'm thinking its either speeders or a dreadnought armed with a MM or duel lascannon.

A devastator squad sounds tasty too, and they are probably more bang for the buck at $35. A squad of speeders would be $90 . Not that I can't improvise with socks or something.

EDIT: I bought a razorback with lascannons and a devastator squad to ride it. So hopefully that will give me a good edge. Admittantly, my models are too spaced tactically out to do any good against almost anything but Orks and such. Cutting down on some units and bolstering others will help out immensely. But I was playing with what models I had built, not improvising with socks/deoderant sticks like my friend does for part of his army.


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## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

lol try it anyway best thing about friendlies is using stuff to represent stuff to see if that stuff works with your play style.

i'd hate to pay lots for stuff that'll just end up sitting in the cupboard like stuff because that stuff doesn't work for you

ps sorry about excesive use of the word stuff


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## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

It's no problem. Stuff is a cool word that I use a lot too.

But I'll end up collecting a lot of models even if I don't use them. The best thing about Warhammer is that it allows me to make models as well as play a tabletop strategy game. Lets me do two hobbies I enjoy greatly at once. Though I can't say it helps my wallet...bah.

Yeah. I'll have a couple games tonight or tomorrow to see whats up.


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## Xpyre35 (Feb 7, 2008)

Holmstrom, 

While is honorable that you enjoy a challenge, the game was designed based around a specific size battlefield. The units, the deployment zone types and zrea size, the weapon ranges, some terrain that blocks LOS. Its all the factors together, that make the game what it is.

If you were to move a couch or two into the room you are playing on and the board became 3'x3', then I would bet a 5k army, that your friend would get just as frustrated, being confined to that available area.

To answer if you got something fast, like the speeder idea, to try to catch the prisms, in an unlimited or large open manueverable area they wouldn't truly get *close* enough to use the effectiveness of the multi-melta anyhow. And would probably get blown apart by some random infantry unit you flew past to get into range.

Maintaining that you want to keep the handicap of an unlimited range battlefield, your best silver bullet is a MM Dread in a single drop pod targeting 6" from the *edge* against near the front of the fire prism, and deploying the dread along side his side armor. It drops it scatters a little, but as long as not off the board, you'll land, dread walks out, and unleashes. True it could miss. again position the pod and the dread so he has only 1 way to go, at that point you should be able disrupt his linking fire.

Good luck friend.


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