# Need Help, Grey Knight Massacre Afoot!!



## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Ok so in the last year, and especially recently with the release of the new Grey Knight Codex I have seen many players, some who are long time supporters of their various factions, switch over to Grey Knights. Now I personally see them as overpowered nobs which have little right existing.

However in the last 4 encounters with them I have been..............brutally massacred:shok: to put it nicely:suicide:. With both my Space Marine, Imperial Gaurd, and my exceptional Ork Army I was trounced.:cray:

I'm asking for advice on how to counter them, tactics, advice, rules I should take advantage of, and the like. Also any addtion comments would be welcomed.


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## SlamHammer (Mar 28, 2011)

Grey Knights Player:

The easist way to beat Grey Knights is to understand what each unit in the Codex does and then AVOID letting them do that. It is not so much as you countering them unit for unit, which is near impossible as Grey Knights are intented to beat the odds with their powers and abilities. It is about focusing on the multitude of smaller battles taking place during the game first, and then taking into account the larger battlefield results after that. Here is an example, I have a unit of 10 Purifiers and you have a unit of 30 Boys, I am going to maximize my chances of causing those units to get into combat. Your goal here is to AVOID this combat through shooting and falling back, leading me into a combat with Killer Kans or a Charge from Nob Bikers (where I will most likely kill 2 before you wipe about most of my squad). The downside to this is if I realize what you are doing, I will just fall back as well and maximize my Storm Bolters against you. This is why I said focus on the smaller battles if you want to win against Grey Knights, as this is where Grey Knights excel at.

I will not lie to you, Grey Knights reward good Generalship better then almost all other armies (Dark Eldar) and allow weaker Generals to succeed against thier peers with "smash armies together!" strategies. However, Grey Knights punish misplays (and poorly constructed army lists) harder then most armies because thier units cost so much and represent specific battlefield purposes. 

Maximize your plays while forcing your opponent to misplay, and when they do, capitilize and punish them! There is no magic formula to beating Grey Knights, you just have to outplay them.


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## Malferion (Mar 9, 2011)

My TH/SS termies run train on paladin deathstar armies thanks to 3+ invulnerable saves and str8 hammers.
Generally the best way to kill grey knights is to blow the crap out of them from far away with high strength low ap weapons such as plasma cannons and lascannons. i like to take a stormraven with a plasma cannon and acouple of furioso's with blood talons because most lists i've seen lack the firepower to kill my stormraven before it drops its load on top of them (lol). And then my furioso tears the nearest aquad to shreds and my opponent panics and directs every unit to try to kill the furioso while the rest of my army gets in position to blast the rest of their army with large amounts of plasma


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Mech is probably the answer, but heavy mech so the psycannons and storm bolters dont eat you.orks probably want kana, battle wagons (shoots boys firing out) and lootas far back. TH/SS termies in redeemers for marines, possibly with vindicator backup. Guard probably want demolishers, vets firing out of chimeras and maybe some roughriders. 

Mech armies need to watch out for interceptors getting behind stuff. Purifiers have to be shot, or obstructed with a shielding unit and then shot. It's not easy but I think it can probably be done.


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## v.comet (Jul 25, 2011)

A friend of mine found a weakness to exploit in the grey knights. Before the new nid codex, his old strategy was "we'll walk up to them and kill them when we get there", which resulted in his fair share ofwins and losses. Since the arrival of the new codex, both the Nids and Grey knights, he hasbeen forced to rethink his strategy. A potentiachinkin the grey knight armor is their highpoints cost=not many units. His new strategy is have things that can take the firepower, i.e hive tyrants carnifexes zoanthroapes etc. Then outflank with Genesteares or shock troops, essentially catching them from all sides. It is a brutl effecive tactic thatmounts atacks on multiple fronts and forces the grey knights to fall into a pincer trap. this is tyranid specific, but can work for any army that is fast, can ouflank or infiltrate


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

emporershand89 said:


> Imperial Gaurd, I was trounced.


You had this coming you overpowered leafblower.

It depends what flavor the grey knights are. Obviously bringing a psychic defense(Hood for your marines) is mandatory. Outside of that it depends what he plays.

Is he Coteaz henchmen spamming? Proceed to cry unless you play Orks, who don't care about pieplates due to low points cost, and the assassins won't bother messing with you because power weapons are a waste on orks.

Is he running Draigodins? Regular terminators are superior. IG shit on them as well. Orks overrun them, just watch out for your nobs as they'll be pasted quite easily.

Is he running purifiers? If you're running orks, GG, you lose. IG should be able to handle them without issue. Spess mehreens lose again.

Is he running a hybrid with the best of all three? Cry. Unless you play IG in which case it becomes Whogetsfirstturnhammer 40k.


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## Tossidin (Dec 10, 2008)

emporershand89, it would be eaiser to give you advice if you told a little about what you play, not just what armies. If you have access to many vehicles your guard should be fine at least.

Protip vs GK: Their shooting doesnt get any more powerful at short range. It is just as strong at 24'' as at 2'', compared to most armies which use meltaguns and rapid fire weapons. Hence closing the range on them is usually a good idea, especially since norma GKs arent really that scary in close combat either.




LordWaffles said:


> You had this coming you overpowered leafblower.
> 
> Overpowered, I lol'd
> 
> ...



There are some issues (imo) with your comments. Seriously, Orks have a good chanse vs coteaz lists? What are they to do? pretend they can deal with over 10 vehicles reliably?
IG on the other hand have a nice chanse to beat them. They match them both in vehicles and firepower. SM can win as well, it isn't like they can't use a good amaunt of razorbacks. 

And I don't understand why purifiers would be so bad vs SM, could you explain?

And this: "Is he running a hybrid with the best of all three? Cry. Unless you play IG in which case it becomes Whogetsfirstturnhammer 40k." is just wrong. Are you still in the mentality that first turn = win? 
It isn't like that guard can't manipulate reserve rolls and, oh, reserve if they can't survive an alpha strike, which they should be able to do if it is some decent terrain on the table.


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## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

My DoA Blood Angles got slaughtered by a Draigowing, but it was pretty obvious that they would crumple in a hurry against ranged firepower. I just didn't have any. Ranged firepower that bypasses cover saves will really make them cry, and force them to react to you instead of playing conga line out of cover like they always do. 

But like others have said, be patient and don't play the GK game. There's less of them because of their cost and they can't afford to take casualties. GK players also tend to fall into patterns to maximize their exploits and make up for their low model count, so punish their predictability.


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## Supersonic Banana (Jul 23, 2010)

I recently played against a draigowing with my mono-khorne daemons list and managed to get a draw (i would have won too but we had to end early). Anyway the best way to kill them is by getting your hands on as many power weapons as possible and try to beat them on initiative in combat. Also get them into cc with things they cant damage (in your case dreads and deff dreads/killa kans).


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## OrdoMalleus (Apr 24, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> Ok so in the last year, and especially recently with the release of the new Grey Knight Codex I have seen many players, some who are long time supporters of their various factions, switch over to Grey Knights. Now I personally see them as overpowered nobs which have little right existing.


A good way to get help from veteran GK players is NOT to state that their army has little right to exsist.  Moving swiftly on.....

They might seem oover powered in that they can dish out damage, but they die just as easily as marines, and they number less so you are automatically at an advantage there. GK are Jack of all Trades. They do lots of things well but arent the best in Anything (i.e Shooty armies such as IG and Eldar will always out shoot them, and combat armies such as Dark Eldar will always out combat them.) A good GK player will wittle your army down inside his 24" bubble of doom, untill he thinks that he can take you in combat and will then charge in.

Therfore you either need to outshoot him or outcombat him. A Prime example of this is a GKs worst enemy (DE) who can both outshoot him and then promptly out combat him.

Marines Need to take a librarian simply to muck over his psychic abilities. Vindicators also rule supreme against GK as does any unit flaunting plasma weaponry. TH/SS terminators are universally useful, but watchout as clever GK players have ways around TH/SS termies. (I have two units in my army delbritely to smash TH/SS termies)

IG should normally do fine, you can bring so much firepower to the feild that GK shouldnt bother you as long as you mechanise/protect your troops. Be careful with leafblower lists however as your lack of high AV makes you prime targets for volleys of Psycannon fire. LR Demolishers, Executioners, Vets with Plasma all work against GKs.


Orks need to really close quickly to avoid staying in a GKs 24" shooting range for too long. They all have power weapons, but orks armour is generally so crap they dont care. KFF on a big mek is sure to piss of GK at range, and One unit that has swung the balance against me for orks a couple of times has been lootas but who ever heard of a shooty ork army!?!? lol:grin: Nob bikers as universally good, but may suffer against the amount of force weapons GKs bring to a fight.


Hope I was helpful , and beter luck next time!!!

OMO


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## JHarrison (Jul 23, 2011)

Don't flame me Waffles, I'm about to say something you'll probably laugh at.

If you want to beat Grey Knights, field Thousand Sons. They're the only unit optimized to kill Grey Knights, as their AP3 negates all of their power armour and 4+ Invulnerable save makes using Force Weapons rather useless (or at least, less useful). Taking some good Heavy Support is vital to the success of this army (read: Oblits and Land Raiders, where this is the only time Basic Land Raiders can be used to full effect). The Characters also all field Force Weapons, so they can kill Dreadknights outright (and have).

That being said, Grey Knights are the only thing Thousand Sons are optimized against. It's as if they were formed specifically to kill the Grey Knights (as Grey Knights were formed specifically to fight Chaos).

Using Thousand Sons, Sorcerers, a Land Raider and Oblits, I have tabled or come close to tabling Grey Knights every time. Thursday I have a game against another Grey Knights player using our 'ard Boyz lists, so I'm curious to see how my new Nurglite units do mixed in with my Thousand Sons.


Fielding other armies, all I can say is to create a list specifically designed to face them. Most basic armies will get wiped out or at least beaten terribly. Many times it's best to do whatever you can to field as many Power Weapons (NOT FISTS for a wonder) and models to soak up the horrendous casualties they WILL inflict. As long as your opponent sticks to LR Crusaders and Redeemers, tanks will fare pretty well against them as they have little anti-tank ability. Just stay away from his Dreads and shoot down those blasted Storm Ravens. When I say tanks, anything with an AV above 12 is best; most of their special weapons can glance anything less.


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## Supersonic Banana (Jul 23, 2010)

Wow there are like 3 threads on this forum that i know of ranting about list tailoring and yet here we are...


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## JHarrison (Jul 23, 2011)

Supersonic Banana said:


> Wow there are like 3 threads on this forum that i know of ranting about list tailoring and yet here we are...


If players want to rant about tailored lists, let them. It's a valid form of battle strategy. Any good Commander knows you only take what is effective against your enemy. If you know not whom your enemy is, take things that can deal with anything; if you know you're facing a particular enemy, take what is best to deal with their troops.

_"If you know your enemy, and you know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred engagements. If you do not know your enemy, but know yourself, you win one and lose one. If you do not know your enemy and do not know yourself, you will be imperiled in every single engagement." -Sun Tzu, The Art of War

_If you want to win a war, you use Intelligence to determine what your enemy is most likely to take, and bring to battle forces that will best combat those threats. To do otherwise would be to commit one of the Fallacies, which includes "Starting a Land War in Asia" and "Never engage in a battle of wits with a Sicilian with Death on the Line."


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