# *Sniff* I smell BS on the wind...



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I was at my FLGS today, and I got into a discussion with a guy about pre-heresy. In particular, we disagreed upon various pieces of technology.

Could some of the more well-read and knowledgeable Heretic tell me wether these are real or lies?

1. The Gauntlets of Ultramar house a Daemon, and also contain an SCT. They repaired themselves after they were damaged by the Avatar at Orar's Sepulchre.

2. A pre-heresy Chainsword is equal to a 'modern' Power Sword.

3. A Chain-axe has the power of ten chainswords.

4. All of the Loyalist Primarchs are still alive because they bound parts of their souls to various items in their possession (i.e. Ferrus Manus is still alive, because his hands still live.)

5. Dorn's Arrow (The Storm Bolter wielded by Pedro Kantor) is a Grey Knight weapon.

6. Kraken Bolts were developed by the Inquisition in the Great Crusade.

7. Angron is a far more powerful Daemon Primarch than Magnus.

8. Kernax Voldorius had a pre-heresy super weapon that could kill a Primarch in one shot.

9. A Titan's armour plating is fourty stories (Stories as in on buildings) thick.

Most of it sounds like a load of BS, but some is kinda believable. His justification for all of this was 'it's in the books', so I'm quite doubtful.

Midnight


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

I'd say it is all bullshit and that he was just messing with you or he's a complete Lux in the real world.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I think many of them are assumptions. Some more believable than others. But if he really debated those here, I believe every single one of them could not be truly proven with quotes and reasonable evidence.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Is he the real Lux


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

TheSpore said:


> Is he the real Lux


That tells me EVERYTHING I needed to know.

Midnight


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> That tells me EVERYTHING I needed to know.
> 
> Midnight


LOL hey remeber its in the books just have to read in between the lines.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

My answer in orange


MidnightSun said:


> I was at my FLGS today, and I got into a discussion with a guy about pre-heresy. In particular, we disagreed upon various pieces of technology.
> 
> Could some of the more well-read and knowledgeable Heretic tell me wether these are real or lies?
> 
> ...


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Kernax Voldorius was a Daemon Prince of the Alpha Legion who was hunted down and killed by Captain Shrike and Kor'sarro Khan (And their respective companies).

Well, at least these things are good to read.

Midnight

EDIT: And, for fun, I'll go into more detail on the justifications. Behold!



MidnightSun said:


> 1. The Gauntlets of Ultramar house a Daemon, and also contain an SCT. They repaired themselves after they were damaged by the Avatar at Orar's Sepulchre. The Adeptus Mechanicus and all of the Masters of the Forge currently in existence have tried to snap the Gauntlets so they can access the SCT inside. Personally, I don't think that the Ultramarines would give up a Primarchal relic so that it could be broken into bits.
> 
> 2. A pre-heresy Chainsword is equal to a 'modern' Power Sword. And a Space Marine clambered up a Titan and cut through it's fourty story thick armour in no time. With his chainsword. Dorn had a golden Chainsword because they were the best weapons around at the time.
> 
> ...


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> I was at my FLGS today, and I got into a discussion with a guy about pre-heresy. In particular, we disagreed upon various pieces of technology.
> 
> Could some of the more well-read and knowledgeable Heretic tell me wether these are real or lies?
> 
> ...


1. No

2. Nothing to suggest its even slightly more powerful than a 40k chainsword

3. Again nothing to suggest anything of the sort. An axe is a completely different type of weapon to a sword(obviously i know)

4. Again nothing to even begin to suggest this is true. Completle baseless

5. Once again, nothing ever says this.

6. The Inquisition weren't formed fully until after the Heresy nevermind the Great Crusade. They didn't become a proper entity until at least the Scouring. It seems likely though that the Ordo Xenos might have first developed Kraken rounds. Great Crusade bit is obviously wrong though.

7. Physically, yes probably, Psychically, not a chance. Magnus can literally make even the strongest astartes psykers explode by clenching his fist whilst concentrating on them. 

8. Utter bullshit, not to sound like a broken record here, but again, nothing to suggest he had any weapon fitting that description.

9. Once again complete bullshit. Most titans aren't even that tall, nevermind having armour plating that thick. Probably the most absurd statement of the lot, and thats saying something going by the above.

I'm afraid he was either deliberatly having you on or is a complete tard(or Lux). Not a single thing he told you has appeared in any of the books or source material i've seen. Get him to tell you which books these 'facts' supposedly appear in next time, then slap him for good measure.


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

*transforms into Lux*

Of course it's all absolutely true! WTF!

*struggles to change back*

Argghhhh! It's the madness of Chaos!!!!! I must leave this thread before I lose my sanity completely!


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Oh, and the last one was that a Space Marine is worth 100 Imperial Guardsmen ('Cos Dorn said so! This guy would just love to f**k a real life Crimson Fist, I tell you). However, that is believable.

Midnight


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> Oh, and the last one was that a Space Marine is worth 100 Imperial Guardsmen ('Cos Dorn said so! This guy would just love to f**k a real life Crimson Fist, I tell you). However, that is believable.
> 
> Midnight


IG: Unarmed Hell yeah. All armed with plasma rifles hell yeah he just has to take cover till one of em blows up:laugh:. All armed with various IG weapons maybe if he gets the drop on em maybe. If he's a Smurf then the IG didn't stand a chance he would read the codex to see what he should do and think walk forward while shooting them all only having ot reload once.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> 7. Angron is a far more powerful Daemon Primarch than Magnus.


 Both are valued servants of their Gods (without being their God's most powerful servants) and so are as powerful as Khorne/Tzeentch allows them to be. At various times one or the other might be clearly superior but on the whole it's a fairly even thing.



MidnightSun said:


> 8. Kernax Voldorius had a pre-heresy super weapon that could kill a Primarch in one shot.


Sort of half true, the fact he had a pre-heresy super weapon at least.



MidnightSun said:


> Most of it sounds like a load of BS, but some is kinda believable. His justification for all of this was 'it's in the books', so I'm quite doubtful.
> 
> Midnight


My left testicle knows more about 40k than this guy.



MidnightSun said:


> Oh, and the last one was that a Space Marine is worth 100 Imperial Guardsmen ('Cos Dorn said so! This guy would just love to f**k a real life Crimson Fist, I tell you). However, that is believable.
> 
> Midnight


Dorn actually said he wanted 100 Space Marines or failing that 1,000 other troops- so it's a 10-1 ratio not 100-1.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I'd be intrigued to know more about said super-weapon...

I think the guy just looked at the Forge World armour sets, bought a load, and then started making up shit to tell people to make his army 'Zomg-O-Invincibul! Mah chainswords are betta than Power Swrds!'

Midnight


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

Now I may be wrong about this but he said that kraken bolts were developed by the inquisition. That sounds believable. But "during the great crusade"? 
I for one thought that the inquisition wasn't actually made during the great crusade. 
It was only founded near the second half of the Horus Heresy at the earliest. 

However I do not have much knowledge on the subject. 

The rest are BS in my opinion, but I cannot specifically prove them wrong, but then again the rest are completely ludicrous anyways. 
For that guy having a weapon that can kill a primarch in one shot, that is believable if it wasnt a hand held weapon. e.g. virus bomb, ordinatus. So that doesn't sound too bad. Unless he meant like a pistol or something. 

As for Angron and Magnus, for one thing the warp is permernantly fluctuating. Secondly its impossible to compare the two as it is difficult to tell how much strength Magnus's psyker abilities give him


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I may have slipped up there; I'm not sure if he did say Great Crusade anymore - I was a bit busy trying to make a counter-argument and being shouted down so I didn't hear all of it (Mindless drivel that it is). He may have said Horus Heresy, but I'm sure he mentioned that it was given to Rogal Dorn by the Inquisition.

Midnight


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I was under the impression that the Kraken Bolt was developed in response to the Tyranid threat.
Others have given the answers I would, and better explained, The one that caught my eye, however, was the Titan armour one. Is a Titan even fourty stories tall? Even with the techno-sorcery that empowers the God-Machines, that much armour would not be able to be moved. Besides, a Titan doesn't just rely on sheer armour thickness as it has Void Shields.
As for Dorn's arrow; a wrist-mounted weapon isn't just a Grey Knight thing. Just look at the BA, who have Angelus Boltguns and even wrist-mounted plasma and Inferno pistols. At least with this one I can sort of see where the confusion might come from.

GFP


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Your all slaves You must read between the lines, its all in the books. What your percieve is not what is truth.
The Lux answer

Your friend is an idiot and should be dragged into a deserted field beat casino style like he was Joe Pesci and then shot for his complet retarded expression of stupidity.
My Answer


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

He's not a friend - merely a bit of a twat.

And I remembered an enticing nugget of information - you know Manus lives on through his hands? Yeah, well Dorn is alive, except he lives inside the Golden Throne. He keeps it alive, you see, but he's dying. That's why the Throne is failing. Truth? My ass!

Midnight


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> He's not a friend - merely a bit of a twat.
> 
> And I remembered an enticing nugget of information - you know Manus lives on through his hands? Yeah, well Dorn is alive, except he lives inside the Golden Throne. He keeps it alive, you see, but he's dying. That's why the Throne is failing. Truth? My ass!
> 
> Midnight


LOL thats like saying Fulgrim wasn't posessed he posessed the daemon and Curze's spirit is now reincarnated in the body of a vampire bat.

The darkness comes to you and it knows your name... Hail the Lord of the Night


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Ave Dominus Nox!

Midnight


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> 1. The Gauntlets of Ultramar house a Daemon, and also contain an SCT. They repaired themselves after they were damaged by the Avatar at Orar's Sepulchre.
> 
> 2. A pre-heresy Chainsword is equal to a 'modern' Power Sword.
> 
> ...



Bullshit. 

Bullshit.

HUGE bullshit

WTF, did they learn that from Voldemort?

Like fuck it is. 

You mean the one that was founded after the Great Crusade? 

Speculation. 

:shok: I want one. 

:laugh:

In that order.

Good lord, this dude doesn't know jack shit about 40k. lol


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

:laugh:

Your avatar lines up with the quote PERFECTLY.

Midnight

EDIT: Never mind, the avatar's changed now.


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

1. No to the daemon, yes to the SCT, as far as I know, they're a super uber form of power fists blessed by Ferrus Manus (or whoever that Mechanicum guy was)

2. Nothing ever suggests a pre heresy chainsword being any different than a modern chainsword.

3. Chain axes may be more effective, but not to that extent.

4. That ones kinda tricky, as far as we know, Leman Russ is still out there on a wild goose chase, Sanguinious is an angel, but I think the others are dead (except for the Lion I think)

5. Can't say

6. Most likely

7. That sounds like more of an opinion, physically, Angron can tear you to shreds, BUT Magnus once karate chopped a Dreadnaught in half, psycically, Magnus is wayyy better, he turned Space Wolf librarians to sprays of blood simply by looking at them.

8. Can't say

9. DEFINITELY NO. Though this is widely debated, the tallest titan is an Imperator class and it's only 180 ft tall, 40 stories is roughly 400 ft....


If you ask me, some of what he was telling you sounded like he was a Matt Ward fan....


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

To answer the titan question.

Apparently the reaver only has 120mm thick armour (IIRC solid adamantium plates, which are often curved or sloped for extra protection.)

The warhound lands at 95mm.

Imperial armour 6.

So let's say warlord has 165mm and the emperor has 200mm. Just for good measure, you get in what ranges the armour lies.
I'd guess that crazy friend of yours (is it a friend?) is thinking of space ships. The imperial armoured prow might actually reach 40 stories.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Klomster said:


> I'd guess that crazy friend of yours (is it a friend?)


Not a friend, just a guy at the store. All the guys who have been there for ages, bar one, are powerful gamers, but complete bombastic, arrogant dickheads, and they all hate my guts. All the guys who became 'regulars' after me, I get on quite well with, and they're not so hot on tabletop, but really nice people.

This guy falls into the first category.

Anyhow, his justification for Chainswords being better than Power Swords was that Dorn had one, and 'If Dorn had access to a power sword (As a Primarch), then why would he pick a chainsword?'. And 'In one of the books there's a Marine who cuts through a Titan's armour (And Titan's armour is like the height of this building times 40)' like that' *Clicks his fingers*.

Now they're direct quotes. So actually, he was arguing that a Titan's armour is 80 stories thick, and Chainswords rip through it like paper.

Midnight


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## Cerebrium (Oct 30, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> I was at my FLGS today, and I got into a discussion with a guy about pre-heresy. In particular, we disagreed upon various pieces of technology.
> 
> Could some of the more well-read and knowledgeable Heretic tell me wether these are real or lies?
> 
> ...



So quite a lot (read: most of it) is utter BS.


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## GhostDog (Apr 16, 2010)

If you want to know more about the super weapon Kernax Voldorius had, read The Hunt for Voldorius. It mentions it in there a fair bit. It's not a weapon like a sword, it was a weapon like some sort of virus kinda like ebola if I remember correctly. (It's been a while since I read it so could be wrong).
It was pre-heresy and the virus might possibly be able to kill a primarch.


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## stevey293 (Aug 16, 2011)

I think he was trying to extract the urine so he could send a made up boss with the gloves and golden axes to take on what would have to be 4 mile tall titans in big games all on his own. Sounds like either a troll, a know it all ( who knows nothing) or someone very missinformed i dont play only paint and i know most of that is bull.


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## Minizke1 (Feb 7, 2010)

The Arrow of Dorn is a Crimson Fists Chapter Relic...so that's a load of bull. Just because it's mounted on his wrist doesn't make it a Grey Knights weapon. Some of the Primarchs are thought to live. I.E, Corax never officially died, nor did Lyon El'Jonson or Leman Russ. Titans are definitely not that big. A Chainsword's a chainsword, maybe it was a little more powerful than the modern ones. If Vernax had a super weapon, I would suspect Matt Ward was involved.


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## fatmantis (Jun 26, 2009)

dude, serrioulsy, who cares, let the little dweeb stay up at nite worrying about this crap,
let him win and go chase some girls................!


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

It is decided, OP wins, and gets the girls.

Tell that to the guy from me.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Wow I am not a fluff person and I know most of that crap is utter rubbish. The gauntlets are special as they have repaired themselves and can not be taken apart but I very much so doubt the house a demon of any type, just a very rare STC or possibly alien tech (wanna say it was mentioned in an older dex that they were alien in nature).


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

> To answer the titan question.
> 
> Apparently the reaver only has 120mm thick armour (IIRC solid adamantium plates, which are often curved or sloped for extra protection.)
> 
> ...


Wait, what?

You do realize that 6 mm is roughly half a centimeter, right? MODERN tanks we have today have up to 24 INCH think armor...

I think if a Leman Russ had 6 mm thick armor a guardsmen could shoot his pistol through it and hit the guy inside, or a Space Marine could just punch through it, let alone a Titan having 120 mm thick armor, which is 12 centimeters.....or roughly 6 inches....


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## Lord of Rebirth (Jun 7, 2008)

2. Cahinswords and powerswords work on different principals. Older ones may have been "made better" but are likely to have been less advanced so they probably just mathc with current ones and thus I doubt a pre-heresy chainsword would match a powersword.

3. A chain axe is just a different shape. It could be bigger maybe?

4. BS. Ferrus Mannus was specifically killed on Isstvan V by Fulgrim. His head what chopped off. Sanginius was broken in half by Horus on Horus' ship hanging over Terra at the siege of terra. I think all the loyalist primarchs are dead and gone though there is the statis chamber of Lion ElJohnson at the core of the Rock myth.

7. Likely not. Angron is more so a combat oriented kinda guy so he may be a better fighter but that is just one side of the coin of power. Also as Tzeentch is likely the most powerful of the four chaos gods Magnus could be stronger. Also Magnus went over to the warp and chaos first if that makes a difference.

9. As most titans aren't near 40 stories tall that makese no sense....


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

My source is imperial armour six.

The book you know 

As for armour on russes....
Let's see what i can find.

Macharius.
Turret 220mm
Superstructure 200
Hull 190
Gun mantlet? 150

Malcador.
Superstructure 180
Hull 160

AH, imperial armour 1.
Leman russ.
Turret 200mm
Superstructure 180
Hull 150
Gun mantlet 100


Leman russ demolisher.
Turret 200mm
Superstructure 200
Hull 180
Gun mantlet 120

Other russ variants seem to follow normal russ specifics.


Destroyer tank hunter.
Superstructure 200
Hull 150
Gun mantlet 150

Baneblade.
Turret 220mm
Superstructure 210
Hull 190
Gun mantlet 180

Shadowsord.
Superstructure 220
Hull 210
Gun mantlet 200

Chimera.
Turret 150mm
Superstructure 150
Hull 100

Those are some things.
I do realise that most of the tanks have thicker armour than the titans.
But titans have sloped adamantium.

And do remember that 40k tanks are probably made of a mysterious future armour, more durable than what we have today.

But yeah, square tanks are less than optimum.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Ok, thanks a lot for the informative answers.

*Warning: Incoming rant detected. Summary provided at the bottom of the post. The Emperor protects.*

Do we want to hear more funny bullshit from Midnight's FLGS?

Well you don't get a choice. Here we go!

10. Slaanesh is feared by all the other Chaos Gods because they 'don't know what he can do yet'.

11. The Blue Scribes have similar fluff in Fantasy and 40k, and thusly Fantasy is the same universe as 40k.

12. There are Necrons on 90% of planets in the Imperium, with a tomb under the Imperial Palace. The only reason they don't wake up is that they need the C'tan (Of which there is a mysterious 5th C'tan, mentioned in 'the books'. Which books is anybody's guess) to activate them.

13. The last two Space Marine legions are on Terra.

14. Nothing can get onto Mars, or even into the Solar System, because there's so many Battle Fleets permanently stationed there, and there's some 'technology that the rest of the Imperium doesn't know exists yet' guarding it. Oh, and nothing can get through the Eye of Terror. There can't be a Black Crusade No. 14, because 'anything coming through the Eye gets instantly blown to bits.'

I tried to explain that the Necrons got a Light Cruiser onto Mars, but he just countered with 'Yeah, but it got destroyed! The Necrons failed!'. Actually, I'll write a commentary. It'll be a laugh. He goes in over his head.

Him: Nothing can get into the Imperial Sector. There's stuff that most of the Imperium doesn't even exist guarding it.

Me: Erm... The Necrons got five Shroud-class Light Cruisers into orbit around Mars, and one of them landed...

Him: It got instantly destroyed. The Necrons failed. The Imperium just blew them to bits.

Me: It was just five Light Cruisers. They're not exactly Battleships.

Him: But they got destroyed.

Me: Yeah, but it's not exactly a great achievement, killing five Scout ships. I mean, the fact that the Necrons got ONE ship onto Mars is quite an acheivement.

Him: It got blown up though. They failed whatever they were trying.

Me: Where in the books is this mysterious technology that the Imperium doesn't know about?

Him: God, have you not READ the books? It's just there.

Me: You can't say 'It's just there'. How do you know, if it's not written in the books?

Him: It's in the books!

Me: WHERE?

Him: Have you not even read them? Seriously...

So, onto our argument about the Gods.

Him: All the Gods are scared of Slaanesh, he's the most powerful just doesn't show it.

Me: Where does it say this?

Him: Daemons Codex, god, you can't have read ANY of the books.

Me: No, it says that all the Gods switch dominance, and that Tzeentch WAS the most powerful until the crystal staff broke.

Him: No, nobody knows how powerful Slaanesh is, so they're all scared of him. If the other gods attacked Slaanesh, they'd lose. He could put Khorne into an endless battlefield, Tzeentch in a massive library, give Nurgle the perfect disease. He's the most powerful.

At this point I really should have mentioned that A. the Gods never seriously attack each other, they don't want to kill each other, and B. The same could be said of any of the Realms. Nothing gets through Khorne's fortresses. (Almost) nothing can navigate the Impossible Fortress, certainly no Daemon other than a Lord of Change. 

As it was, we got onto the topic of the Blue Scribes and Tzeentch's dominance, which I left halfway through because he just wouldn't give up. He went in over his head, with only a loud voice and overwhelming arrogance to buoy him up.

I hope someone finds this as funny as I do. Does anyone else have people like this at their FLGS (I have two of these guys, and a guy who insists that Dark Angels are currently THE best Codex in the game at every oppurtunity)

Midnight

EDIT:

TL;DR: There's a knob at my club. He makes up fluff, and when you ask him for a reference, he says 'Have you even READ the books, seriously? God...'


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

10. Slaneesh is feared by the other gods, because they don't know what he can do yet. Slaneesh has never been in the prime seat because the other gods prevent him since they don't know if they can stop him if he gets there.

11. The scribes (and all other chaos related things) are very similar in 40k and fantasy.
Although as gw claims that it is different universes....
There will always be the theories that the warhammer fantasy world exist in 40k.

12. Necrons are here and there. There is no tomb on terra. But on mars.
The void dragon is imprisoned on mars. He and the nightbringer and deciever are the only C-tans left IIRC, the others were killed by the laughing god while he did the dance of death IIRC.

13. The last two space marine legions are lost, if they were on terra they would be rather well known of.
They could be anywhere, but most likely they don't exist at all. Although i guess the primarch's still hangs around somewhere.

14. Nothing ordinary can get to mars, the defenses are very powerful indeed.
But necron ships are not ordinary.
Just ask any BFG player how they are in BFG, the general answer will be BROKEN!!!!!
Since they are pretty much broken, both fluff and rule-wise.
Although i think alot of the reason the ships got there to begin with is because necron ships go circles around ANY other ship in the galaxy. Even eldar.

And the necron ship did get destroyed. And it did not achieve anything.
But it still got there, and that's scary.
Or perhaps it did achieve something??? (*dramatic music*)

Mysterious technology?
What technology?

The black fortresses?
Imperium don't have all those.
Something else? Like what? 

"There's stuff that most of the Imperium doesn't even exist guarding it."
I hope this is a typo.

And i understand your questions.
Where in the books? WHAT BOOKS???

All your "friends" seems to be total assholes.
And it is funny hearing you describe high level fail


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> 10. Slaanesh is feared by all the other Chaos Gods because they 'don't know what he can do yet'.


They're uneasy around him as he has the _potential_ to be the dominant God given enough time, but as of right now he can't seriously challenge Khorne and Tzeentch



MidnightSun said:


> 11. The Blue Scribes have similar fluff in Fantasy and 40k, and thusly Fantasy is the same universe as 40k.


No, it's not. I presume he hasn't read any of the books.



MidnightSun said:


> 12. There are Necrons on 90% of planets in the Imperium, with a tomb under the Imperial Palace. The only reason they don't wake up is that they need the C'tan (Of which there is a mysterious 5th C'tan, mentioned in 'the books'. Which books is anybody's guess) to activate them.


Bull shit again.

There are 4 known C'tan- no others are mentioned.



MidnightSun said:


> 13. The last two Space Marine legions are on Terra.


Considering there are no Space Marine chapters allowed to be stationed on Terra that's quite an achievement.



MidnightSun said:


> 14. Nothing can get onto Mars, or even into the Solar System, because there's so many Battle Fleets permanently stationed there, and there's some 'technology that the rest of the Imperium doesn't know exists yet' guarding it. Oh, and nothing can get through the Eye of Terror. There can't be a Black Crusade No. 14, because 'anything coming through the Eye gets instantly blown to bits.'


 Amazing. I'd love to meet this guy! 

Please tell him, from me, that he obviously hasn't read any of the books- I know far, far more about 40k than he does, I have read most of the books (anyone who says they've read 100% of everything about 40k is either a liar or the most overly-committed person to walk this earth) and he has all the intelligence of a shrew. A dead one.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

What was the last C-tan.
I recall him now. But i don't know his name.

Was he inside the dyson sphere?

And my post might have flaws i realise, since i'm not 100% sure on some races.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Klomster said:


> What was the last C-tan.
> I recall him now. But i don't know his name.
> 
> Was he inside the dyson sphere?
> ...


The Outsider, and you're correct about the Dyson Sphere.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Would it not be funny putting up *Baron Spikey* in a 1v1 fluff fight to the death scenario vs this seriously awesome fluff expert? 

Seriously, that dude knows bollocks. If you ever decide to punch him in the face, punch him from me as well. 

Or just punch him and tell him that Doelago sent you.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

Hm, a fiend who usually has right sais it was the mad who's the 4th?

Might not be true, just double checking.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Why do I inspire douchebaggery when I go places...

Probably because I read up on this stuff. Nobody challenges the 'veterans', and when somebody who is a frequent poster on Heresy and avid reader of 3++ comes along and reveals the truth that the fluff has to be written down or officially announced to be canon, or that Dark Angels aren't actually the best Codex in 40k, they all hate me for changing the status quo.

Assholes.

Midnight


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## Lastik (Jun 15, 2011)

The current C'tan are:

The Nightbringer, released upon the galaxy by the greatest heroes ever than can do no wrong and single-handedly saved the imperium from the Horus heresy, the ultramarines, you go boys. :laugh:

The Deceiver, contender with Tzeentch, The laughing god and the Emperor for the "All acording to plan" year award.

The Dragon, trapped on mars by the Emperor. Got promissed virgin sacrifices every year or so and all he got was a bunch of smelly, oily, nerd dudes with breathers for faces and a tendency for shoving plastic tubes on random places. Confound that Emperor, that was NOT what was meant by virgins, NOT COOL! :ireful2:

The Outsider, which is... outside the galaxy doing... outsidy thingies.. some say he's involved someway with the nids but that's just speculation. I don't think it has any base on fluff.

In any case reading your friend rants as been positively hilarious, do bring more.. "pearls of wisdom" from him opcorn:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

In regards to Slaanesh, he was probably referring to this:

_"Though Khorne is the only God with open dislike of Slaanesh, both Nurgle and Tzeentch are uneasy in his presence. This is due, in part, to the fact that all the Chaos Gods embody Slaanesh's drive for excess: Khorne with his rage, Tzeentch with his schemes and Nurgle with his love of pestilence. Lurking deep within the psyche of each of Slaanesh's brother Gods is the suspicion that the influence of the Dark Prince is steadily gaining in strength and that Slaanesh will perhaps one day eclipse them all."_ - _Army Book: Daemons of Chaos_.

It should be noted though that the Chaos Gods are portrayed differently between Fantasy and 40k. Although the above quote is clearly relevant to 40k as well.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

It doesn't state they openly fear him.
But the feeling of unease is definetly there.

As for the C-tan thing, where could my friend have gotten "the Mad" idea from, as in the C-tan known as the mad.
If it is not he who is in the dyson sphere?

Just want to be sure if my friend was incorrect, since i often double check fluff bitz with him.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Klomster said:


> As for the C-tan thing, where could my friend have gotten "the Mad" idea from, as in the C-tan known as the mad.
> If it is not he who is in the dyson sphere?
> 
> Just want to be sure if my friend was incorrect, since i often double check fluff bitz with him.


Your friend is correct The Outsider is rip roaring insane.


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> 1. The Gauntlets of Ultramar house a Daemon, and also contain an SCT. They repaired themselves after they were damaged by the Avatar at Orar's Sepulchre.
> 
> I don't think this is confirmed anywhere in fluff however the Gauntlets were won from a Chaos Champion and they were damaged and the repairs unexplained at Orar's Sepulchre. So it's plausible but unconfirmed.
> 
> ...


I agree with you in that some of it is quite plausible and would be a good answer in fluff terms however there is definitely not proof of the information. Especially not 'in the books'. I suggest you humour him and make some up of your own.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> I was at my FLGS today, and I got into a discussion with a guy about pre-heresy. In particular, we disagreed upon various pieces of technology.
> 
> Could some of the more well-read and knowledgeable Heretic tell me wether these are real or lies?
> 
> 1. The Gauntlets of Ultramar house a Daemon, and also contain an SCT. They repaired themselves after they were damaged by the Avatar at Orar's Sepulchre.


I've seen it discussed that the Gauntlets of Ultramar were _captured from_ a champion of Chaos, but I'm not sure where (if anywhere) that fact lies.



> 2. A pre-heresy Chainsword is equal to a 'modern' Power Sword.


There's no evidence of that. Now, would Dorn have an exceptionally well-made chainsword? Sure. Does that mean ALL pre-Heresy chainswords were better? Doubtful. Though a case could be made that in some cases technology has degraded and certain patterns of weapons might be better than others (this holds true with tanks and such in Forge World books).



> 3. A Chain-axe has the power of ten chainswords.


Speaking purely in terms of stats, chain-axes used to be treated as more powerful. That's not the case anymore, and I agree with that logic.

I mean, in terms of a normal axe versus a normal sword, the axe will impact with greater momentum and with an edge designed to achieve better penetration. When it comes to chain weapons, though, damage is done differently--through the shredding process of the rotating, toothed edge. Impact will still be greater with the axe, but when the fluff describes the teeth themselves being diamond-hard and sharp on a level of invented sci-fi terms, I doubt that makes much of a difference. If anything, the chainsword will (thanks to the length of the blade) achieve more surface impact with the same level of destructiveness.



> 4. All of the Loyalist Primarchs are still alive because they bound parts of their souls to various items in their possession (i.e. Ferrus Manus is still alive, because his hands still live.)


That's pure supposition.

As to what happens to souls after one dies, we have an understanding of what goes on with normal people. It's nasty. Their souls become the sustenance and amusement of the Ruinous Powers and their daemonic minions. Does the same thing happen to Primarchs? Who knows. Their nature was vastly different from that of a normal human. As to whether they still reside within their corpses, though? Pure personal fabrication.



> 5. Dorn's Arrow (The Storm Bolter wielded by Pedro Kantor) is a Grey Knight weapon.


No clue. Never read that anywhere.



> 6. Kraken Bolts were developed by the Inquisition in the Great Crusade.


As GFP pointed out, I thought this was a Tyranid-specific munition.



> 7. Angron is a far more powerful Daemon Primarch than Magnus.


Define "more powerful". As in brute strength? Or in terms of power, period?



> 8. Kernax Voldorius had a pre-heresy super weapon that could kill a Primarch in one shot.


I have yet to finish the Space Marine Battles novel he was in.



> 9. A Titan's armour plating is fourty stories (Stories as in on buildings) thick.


That's ignorant. Most Titans aren't even forty stories tall--never mind thick.



> Oh, and the last one was that a Space Marine is worth 100 Imperial Guardsmen ('Cos Dorn said so! This guy would just love to f**k a real life Crimson Fist, I tell you). However, that is believable.


Depends in the situation.

Out in the open, with a hundred Guardsmen forming a firing line at the edge of their maximum effective range and the Space Marine having to charge them? Yeah, he's dead.

But what if the Guardsmen were in a trench line, and the Space Marine was running down its length, engaging only a couple at a time, with the Guardsmen unable to focus sustained fire at him? Barring heavy explosives, those Guardsmen are finished, for all intents and purposes.

See what I mean?

Cheers,
P.


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

Phoebus said:


> Depends in the situation.
> 
> Out in the open, with a hundred Guardsmen forming a firing line at the edge of their maximum effective range and the Space Marine having to charge them? Yeah, he's dead.
> 
> ...


I would love to try that out in a game haha.


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## papa nurgle (Jan 11, 2010)

this has got to be one of the most amusing threads i have ever seen:laugh:! I actually had to remind myself that this kid is real! oh the lolz. in the name of comedy and shigs may you continue your barrage of challenges towards this (misguided is too kind a word) ignoramus!


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

Aha, so "The mad" is a valid name for the outsider.

And midnight, you have to get more "fluff" from this guy / theese guys.
It's glorius


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

MidnightSun said:


> I was at my FLGS today, and I got into a discussion with a guy about pre-heresy. In particular, we disagreed upon various pieces of technology.
> 
> Could some of the more well-read and knowledgeable Heretic tell me wether these are real or lies?
> 
> ...


1. Crap. They are a re-consecrated FORMER daemon weapon. No STC or otherwise. 
2. More or less. A chainsword and a club are the same on TT.
3. Calling BS here. A chainaxe = club under current rules for TT.
4. Bs again. Some are dead, some are daemons, some have just gone out for a walk and might be some time.
5. Nope, just an old SB.
6. Developed by the UM for fighting 'nids.
7. Much of a muchness. How much bigger is infinity+1 than infinity? Call BS.
8. And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be an Austin Healy.
9. Titan armour is plotanium. Weight and thickness varies according to the laziness of the writers.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

The part about the titans plating was so retarded it made me laugh.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

So where's this store located and who's this guy?

I want to meet him.


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