# HH paperbacks!



## Paceyjg (May 12, 2011)

Ok so some time into the HH series good old BL decide to publish them in Hardbacks. Fair enough and so I make the decision not to replace my whole series so far and buy books I already have.

I accept thats my choice and one of those consequences, is that I have to wait an extra three months after each new HH edition is published, before I can get my copy.

So I thought... until I find out that a "trade" paperback is then released in the interim, different size and who cares what else.

Now I have to wait another six months on top of that before I can buy a mass market paperback to continue my collection! Nine months in total? :angry:

This is a complete piss take! I am really angry that this is apparently now how long term fans are to be treated. 

BL if you want me to change my collection of books to a different style/size etc then you offer me a trade in for each of the paperbacks I already have and I will consider doing it!

Really really pissed off over this! (Have just emailed the BL with my thoughts) Anyone in the same boat?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Where did you get nine months from? Book comes out on hardback, you wait three till trade paper back, then another three for mass market. Equals an extra wait of six.

I didn't know however that the trade and mass market weren't being released at the same time, doesn't effect me as I'm going buying and replacing with hardbacks now, but does seem a bit of a let down from BL if this is the case for all those who don't want hardbacks or trade paper backs.


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## Grendelrt (Feb 9, 2011)

Yeah this sucks. I have 20 some mass market paperbacks and now unless I want to wait 6 months I have to break that consistency. There are worse problems in the world, but its really annoying to switch it all up 20 some books in.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

What is the difference between trade paperback and mass market?

Does it depend on where it is sold or what exactly since I am also in the same boat here.


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## Grendelrt (Feb 9, 2011)

Stephen_Newman said:


> What is the difference between trade paperback and mass market?
> 
> Does it depend on where it is sold or what exactly since I am also in the same boat here.


The TPB are the size of the Space Marine Battles books and the Mass Market are the size that HH books are now.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

$20 extra to skip 6 months of waiting. I'm up for hardbacks.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

The Mass Market Paperbacks are getting released when the normal Heresy release would be, if there wasn't any Hardback or Trade Paperbacks. You're not waiting any longer for a release date of the mass market paperback then you would have to with a Heresy novel that was released before the hardback/trade paperback format release.


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> The Mass Market Paperbacks are getting released when the normal Heresy release would be, if there wasn't any Hardback or Trade Paperbacks. You're not waiting any longer for a release date of the mass market paperback then you would have to with a Heresy novel that was released before the hardback/trade paperback format release.


I know that is what BL have said, but to me its a load of bull. For the record I'm quite happy with the Hardbacks and will buy them. However not everybody can afford this. If it had just been three months them fine, but nine months (and it IS NINE MONTHS) is treating fans of the series very poorly IMO.


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## jasonpittman (May 17, 2010)

I thought it was 3 months after the hard back the trade paperback was released then a further 3 months for the mass market paper back, thats only an extra 6 months. I say only but even that is far too long, I have had to stump up for the hard backs as I couldn't wait.


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## Vitarus (Apr 9, 2012)

OTOH, a pretty huge number of books come out in hc, then mass market pb a year later. 

My gripe is non-books. That is, ebooks and audio dramas. Hate them. I want a freakin' book!


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

mal310 said:


> but nine months (and it IS NINE MONTHS) is treating fans of the series very poorly IMO.


Imagine that really loud klaxon sound that signifies "WRONG!" on game shows etc. 

Tell me, where exactly are you getting nine months from? According to you that means _Betrayer_, is coming out in September 2013 in MMPB, which is not the case.


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## Grendelrt (Feb 9, 2011)

Angel of Blood said:


> Imagine that really loud klaxon sound that signifies "WRONG!" on game shows etc.
> 
> Tell me, where exactly are you getting nine months from? According to you that means _Betrayer_, is coming out in September 2013 in MMPB, which is not the case.


At least going by amazon releases he is correct. Angel Exterminatus TPB is end of January, then MMPB is in July. So 3 months on TPB, 6 months on MMPB for a total of 9 months after Hardcover.


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> Imagine that really loud klaxon sound that signifies "WRONG!" on game shows etc.
> 
> Tell me, where exactly are you getting nine months from? According to you that means _Betrayer_, is coming out in September 2013 in MMPB, which is not the case.


I'm sorry but it is the case. The mass market paperback is not out until September 2013. 

I'm getting nine months from Black Library. Its common knowledge. They have confirmed this countless times on their Facebook page. Its Hardback then 3 months later Trade Paperback then 6 months after that its the mass market paperback (the same style as the others). Three months plus six months is nine months. 



I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that's the situation. If you don't believe me then ask Black Library and they will confirm it. You can give yourself a blast of the klaxon when they get back to you. :wink:


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Hmm i'd initially read it as 6 months after the hardback not TPB, if that is the case, well my bad and unlucky, Hardbacks ftw.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Looks like I am buying hardcovers then.


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## Paceyjg (May 12, 2011)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> The Mass Market Paperbacks are getting released when the normal Heresy release would be, if there wasn't any Hardback or Trade Paperbacks. You're not waiting any longer for a release date of the mass market paperback then you would have to with a Heresy novel that was released before the hardback/trade paperback format release.


But that's simply not true is it? I bought Fear to Tread in August and then Shadows of Treachery in October both from Amazon. Now I have to wait until July 2013 to read Angel Exterminatus!


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

I don't even understand this and the Black Library site seems far more cluttered than I remembered.

I recently bought the paperback _Betrayer_ because A) hardbacks aren't my thing and B) it was already released.

Now you're telling me that along with the initial hardback (which I have no complaints with -- after all, many other publishers use this strategy), the same-size-as-a-hardback-but-actually-a-paperback there's _also_ going to be a regular-sized edition down the line (with a coloured strip on its spine the other two editions lack)?


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

mal310 said:


> I'm sorry but it is the case. The mass market paperback is not out until September 2013.
> 
> I'm getting nine months from Black Library. Its common knowledge. They have confirmed this countless times on their Facebook page. Its Hardback then 3 months later Trade Paperback then 6 months after that its the mass market paperback (the same style as the others). Three months plus six months is nine months.
> 
> ...


Yup, confirmed by my local blueshirt the other day. This makes me a sad panda


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

I thought the regular-sized paperbacks were extinct and Black Library were moving into the larger edition along with the hardback-first format.

Well, with the released date of September 2013 I guess it's almost the same thing, practically speaking.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Good job I sold all my gold-edition Heresy novels and moved onto Ebooks then. :victory:


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## lothos2008 (Nov 25, 2013)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> The Mass Market Paperbacks are getting released when the normal Heresy release would be, if there wasn't any Hardback or Trade Paperbacks. You're not waiting any longer for a release date of the mass market paperback then you would have to with a Heresy novel that was released before the hardback/trade paperback format release.


...erm...not the case...HH releases were generally at the same time each year...but when the time came the time came for Angel Ext, i suddenly had to wait an extra 9 months for my HH fix...if BL had first published HH novels in hardback then i would have bought them then and continued to buy them; this is naked exploitation of what is essentially a captive market...:ireful2::ireful2::ireful2:


2006: 2 novels...
2007: 2 
2008: 3
2009: 2 
2010: 3 
2011: 3 
2012: 5 (not inc Angel Ext hardback is Oct 2012)
2013: Angel Ext MMP released July 2013; 

...this the first new release of a HH novel in MMP form since Shadows of Treachery in Sept 2012: there has NEVER been a 10 month wait for a HH novel!!!

while it can be said that 2012 was a 'bumper year', i dont think anyone with any connection to GW (employee or consumer) can even vaguely argue about their pricing and marketing strategy sucking balls and is very defintely in their own favour, even to the point of alienating us, the market.

...yet we still buy GW products...which if it is a physical product (e.g. model, book, tool or paint) then we can at least kid ourselves that we are getting something for our money...but with the advent of e-books where the 'product' has no physical form at all and is merely data (therefore production value vs market value no longer corresponds...you could sell the product at £1 and STILL make a profit as consumers would be pretty much everyone as their cost is almost nothing), this falls away...

the fact is that GW will continue this way unless people stop buying their products (at least for a time)...money talks...and when the money stops, GW will listen....but as GW's target market are basically teenage males (hey...i am almost 40 but i know this stuff aint aimed at me!) and they are kinda not bothered about delayed gratification, nothing is gonna happen soon except GW profits rising...


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## Paceyjg (May 12, 2011)

I did get an emailed confirmation that they would continue to release MM paperbacks for the HH.

As above if they had started with hardbacks in the beginning I would have bought them! However if they stopped releasing MM paperbacks then I wouldn't bother continuing with the collection.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Paceyjg said:


> However if they stopped releasing MM paperbacks then I wouldn't bother continuing with the collection.


This.

I would be getting rid of all the MM I have if this was the case


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## The Scion of Chemos (May 24, 2013)

lothos2008 said:


> ...erm...not the case...HH releases were generally at the same time each year...but when the time came the time came for Angel Ext, i suddenly had to wait an extra 9 months for my HH fix...if BL had first published HH novels in hardback then i would have bought them then and continued to buy them; this is naked exploitation of what is essentially a captive market...:ireful2::ireful2::ireful2:
> 
> 
> 2006: 2 novels...
> ...


The only argument I can make against the whole selling it for 1GBP is that it would take a VERY long time to pay the author(s), Artist(s), Editor(s), etc. 

Plus, I mean, what about steam? Steam sells digital games, and that is "just data", or Itunes. They sell MP3s, and that is "just data". Not saying that you are wrong, just that selling things for THAT cheap doesn't really pay the cost of making it 


I do agree with some of your points though!
And to correct one thing, the "normal" release date for HH books is the trade paperback. BL has said multiple times that the industry is moving away from MMPB, and so that is their standard release(not that I can confirm that the industry is indeed moving that way). So if you were following the "normal" release table, it is only from Sep-Jan(still quite a wait, but not as bad as Sep). Whether or not you stay in the same format, or get an earlier one is your deal, you can't blame BL for it 
I could complain at how I just spent $89.99 on a hardcover book that was published some years ago, but that is how I prefer my books, so that is what I got instead of the MUCH cheaper TPB


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

lothos2008 said:


> ...yet we still buy GW products...which if it is a physical product (e.g. model, book, tool or paint) then we can at least kid ourselves that we are getting something for our money...but with the advent of e-books where the 'product' has no physical form at all and is merely data (therefore production value vs market value no longer corresponds...you could sell the product at £1 and STILL make a profit as consumers would be pretty much everyone as their cost is almost nothing), this falls away...


While I agree with some of what you have written (especially about the comment about no delay), the above remark is absolute rubbish. The HH novels are not going to be particularly price elastic. Just because it costs a pound does not mean the number of actual sales will increase in any great volume. Granny Wiggins is not going to buy Betrayer just because the price has dropped to a pound. I'm fairly sure that most who wish to buy the novels will be able to do so at the current prises. As for the ‘product’. The ‘product’ you are buying is the STORY not the physical book! The story being created is where most of the production costs will arise from. It can take an author many months to write a book and these guys and girls need to make a living. 

To say all you are getting is merely data when you purchase an ebook (or a game for that matter) is somewhat obtuse. If you want ‘merely data’ then just type a load of gibberish on your computer screen and there you go. Some free merely data.


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## lothos2008 (Nov 25, 2013)

ok...here we go with. multi-quote response....never done it before and am using my phone so probably not the best way to begin... :0S



The Scion of Chemos said:


> The only argument I can make against the whole selling it for 1GBP is that it would take a VERY long time to pay the author(s), Artist(s), Editor(s), etc.
> 
> Plus, I mean, what about steam? Steam sells digital games, and that is "just data", or Itunes. They sell MP3s, and that is "just data". Not saying that you are wrong, just that selling things for THAT cheap doesn't really pay the cost of making it
> 
> ...


time to pay the author: authors generally get approx 10% of the sales revenue on a sliding scale (e.g. so 8% for first 10,000 copies, 10% for next 10,000, 15% for any after 20,000) or can be a flat one-off fee...as HH is going to be THE defining series for wh40k, i think we can all agree that, even when the series ends, newcomers will get into the hobby and so people will be buying it for decades to come....GW know this and could easily shell out £10k initial commision for a novel and absorb any losses if the novel somehow (!!!) doesnt sell 10,000 copies...as for the artists: meh...a lot of their work is for GW generally, not HH-novel specific and the art is purchased and used in many, many books, adverts, 
collections...as for editors: again, 'meh'...they dont get paid to review HH, they just get 
paid to do a job and HH novels are part of that...

steam: tbh, i only read the BL books...i stopped playing when i was about 20 so dont know who steam are...but i am guessing they possibly dont have the market penetration (and saturation) that GW do and as for 'the cost of making it' ('it' can be anything) if 'it' is 
transferable by data (picture, text, video, music and '3D-printer-info' for objects) then the cost is essentially a one-off with virtually no raw goods needed to create billions of copies!

release date: if GW's normal release date was for the trade paperback (TB, large p'back) then why did GW release the first twenty-odd novels as mass market p'back (MMP, small p'back) first?!?! ...and as for BL saying that the industry is moving away from MMP, as that is the format that sells the most and has done for some time (hence 'mass market') i think BK are spining you a line...and besides,if the industry is going in a particular 'direction' then it most likely moving away from paper altogether and going towards e-products...i mean, when was the last time you bought a CD??? ...books (and data storage generally) will go the same way as vinyl to cassette to CD to file...big to medium to small to data which is nothing-but-info....

hardback books: i refer you to my point about naked profiteering... now all this is guessing but i figure most people bought the original MMP once years ago when they were a lot younger and most likely had less income, that copy has possibly been read several times and is a bit battered...they have some spare cash and think "sod it, i am going to treat myself and get the HB copy!" and, hey presto, GW have made even more cash! ...your comment (paraphrasing: "...i chose to buy a HB rather than a MMP which was cheaper...") leads me to think that you have only bought one copy and the HB was available...think about how you would be happy to spend your money ($89?!?! ...wtf???) but a HB wasnt available and THEN after you have bought twenty-odd sequels, suddenly a HB was available but if you get it then you would have to buy ALL THE BOOKS YOU HAVE ALREADY BOUGHT AGAIN IN HB FORMAT!!!
...again, dont get me wrong, i have about 7 copies of LotR, but Tolkien Enterprises amd their publisher (Unwin???) aren't tryna take all my money! ...and i dont have the space for hardbacks anyway...my girlf aint keen on the books i do have and deffo aint keen on me getting more! :0(




mal310 said:


> While I agree with some of what you have written (especially about the comment about no delay), the above remark is absolute rubbish. The HH novels are not going to be particularly price elastic. Just because it costs a pound does not mean the number of actual sales will increase in any great volume. Granny Wiggins is not going to buy Betrayer just because the price has dropped to a pound. I'm fairly sure that most who wish to buy the novels will be able to do so at the current prises. As for the ‘product’. The ‘product’ you are buying is the STORY not the physical book! The story being created is where most of the production costs will arise from. It can take an author many months to write a book and these guys and girls need to make a living.
> 
> To say all you are getting is merely data when you purchase an ebook (or a game for that matter) is somewhat obtuse. If you want ‘merely data’ then just type a load of gibberish on your computer screen and there you go. Some free merely data.



granny wiggins: ender's granny can buy it if she wishes (maybe she can also get a copy for valentine and peter too...lol!) and, at the price of £1, virtually no-one will be excluded from purchasing it due to lack of finance...and while, yes, most people who want the product can buy it at the current price, just because you 'can' price something at £10 doesnt mean that you 'have to'...and by setting prices low, you can move more VARIETY of products as consumers will have more disposable income to buy things they wouldnt normally purchase...

product is where production costs come from: nope...as mentioned above, approx 10% goes to the author and from The sale of ANY TYPE OF BOOK (HB, TP or MMP), the publisher gets approx £3...admittedly if you are talking about a large-format art collection with high quality paper etc then its likely to be more, but generally its about £3...so if a MMP novel costs me £8 and £3 goes to the publisher and £0.80 (10% of £8) goes to the author and lets say £0.20 miscallenous staff (art, editors, etc), then where does the other £4 go??? ...and THATS for a paper copy...and e-book has no raw materials so where does the extra £7 go for an e-book cos, lets face it, e-books are somehow the same price as an actual book-with-pages....! ...e-books should cost a lot less than a hard-copy, simples.

merely data: it IS merely data...admittedly its data put together in such a way that makes sense and tells a story, but it is merely data...and as you stated yourself:
"The ‘product’ you are buying is the STORY not the physical book!"
...btw, love the word 'obtuse'...it really isnt used enough! :0)

i know my rant (and i am aware that its a rant!) seems to make it look like i hate GW, i dont: i think the shared world they have created is amazing and terrifying and dark and wonderful...i remember my friend i troducing me to it when i was about 13...there i was, holding a copy of Rogue Trader in my hand and all i could think is: "but where is the board???"...! ...buying 5 sets of beaky marines so i could make an entire company!

but the days of childhood are over and when i see something wrong i say it: GW may be a company and companies need to make money in order to grow...but when the underlying trust between consumer and provider is being abused to such an extent (and yes, bankers and energy providers, i am looking at you too...), something has to be said...remember all those times they changed the metal/plastic/paint pot sizes and said it was for 'your benefit' and then prices, mysteriously, went up???

...and i did all this on my phone! ...i love my phone! :0)


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## The Scion of Chemos (May 24, 2013)

lothos2008 said:


> ok...here we go with. multi-quote response....never done it before and am using my phone so probably not the best way to begin... :0S
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Alright, so you ARE just spouting nonsense here.
Unless you have BLs actual financial records and know how much each and every author is being paid, how much the artist is being paid, how much each book is selling, the cost for transporting the books, the costs for storing the books, and however many other costs are factored into selling a book, your point is moot. 

Steam is definitely MUCH bigger than BL. It is the number one place for PC games, again your assumptions are wrong, your point is moot. http://store.steampowered.com/

I go to my local book store about once every two weeks, and I am seeing more and more trade paperbacks. The Mass market is being replaced by ebooks. The MMPB was the cheap copy for people who just wanted the story. Now that is what ebooks are. Trade paperbacks are slightly more expensive, of better quality, and are the "new norm" for a lot of the books I am seeing come out. 
Does that mean the ENTIRE industry is moving that way? No. But it does make sense to have people who would normally buy the MMPB as the cheap throwaway copy move to digital, and have the people who care about having a physical copy have the TPB. I am not the book industry, so I cannot say whether or not I am moving in that direction 
And to answer your question on why they didn't start with TPB. IIRC, 2006 was not a time when they were doing LOADS of TPB releases. BL was a little smaller, so maybe they didn't want to risk the higher cost/lower bookstores sales(since TPB are bigger there is less room on shelves for them), and digital wasn't around for them to do their tests on. Additionally, if you have read any interviews about the start of the HH, the entire company was extremely worried it wasn't going to do well. 
You don't start something you are worried will fail with the best most expensive stuff 
The mid series change is annoying yes, but FFS it is not the end of the world, and if you literally cannot wait 9 months to read a book, you have bigger problems on your hands than getting a book

Again, your assumptions. I had most of the HH series in MMPB, though had only read some of it. When they announced they were doing hardcovers, I sold them to my friend who doesn't want the hardcovers. I dislike that they did it "mid-series". That does fuck over some fans. However, only a 3-9 month wait on the book in your preferred format is REALLY GOD DAMN GOOD.
I cannot tell you how many series I don't even get my preferred format.

So, what I am getting from you.
"Other publishers get re-release the same content over and over again and I will happily waste money on it" but you just like to hop on the hating BL/GW bandwagon or something?
I mean, to each their own, I just don't see the point for complaining about something that isn't going to change


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## lothos2008 (Nov 25, 2013)

The Scion of Chemos said:


> Alright, so you ARE just spouting nonsense here.
> Unless you have BLs actual financial records and know how much each and every author is being paid, how much the artist is being paid, how much each book is selling, the cost for transporting the books, the costs for storing the books, and however many other costs are factored into selling a book, your point is moot.


dont have access to BL's financial data...i did what most people do when they dont know the answer to something: i asked someone who knows the answer...enter GOOGLE, the website for all the family! ...yeah, i just typed in 2 questions:
1) hom much does an author get from the sale of a book?
2) how much does a publisher get from the sale of a book?
...as for storage/transport costs etc...GW already has warehouses and transport facilities in place and i would think it wouldnt have to make much of an outlay (if any) to incorporate the sale of the HH series...and again, e-books have no transport/storage costs etc, so how come they still cost the same (if not more like in the recent 'Scars' series seems to be)...?



The Scion of Chemos said:


> Steam is definitely MUCH bigger than BL. It is the number one place for PC games, again your assumptions arewrong, your point is moot. http://store.steampowered.com/


as i mentioned, i had not heard of Steam until now, and i never said "...not bigger than BL...", i said "...GW had more market saturation/penetration...", meaning the hobby war gaming market...my apologies for not knowing about something that i have never been aware of...! :0S



The Scion of Chemos said:


> I go to my local book store about once every two weeks, and I am seeing more and more trade paperbacks. The Mass market is being replaced by ebooks. The MMPB was the cheap copy for people who just wanted the story. Now that is what ebooks are. Trade paperbacks are slightly more expensive, of better quality, and are the "new norm" for a lot of the books I am seeing come out.
> Does that mean the ENTIRE industry is moving that way? No. But it does make sense to have people who would normally buy the MMPB as the cheap throwaway copy move to digital, and have the people who care about having a physical copy have the TPB. I am not the book industry, so I cannot say whether or not I am moving in that direction


just because you are seeing TB's doesnt mean that is the way the industry is going...indeed, the industry may WANT the market to go one way yet customer demand may swing it another; if you remember the 'war' between betamax and VHS video machines in the 80's then you may remember why VHS won when Betamax was much better quality at only a fraction of an increase in cost (for those of you too young to remember, heres a hint: the adult film industry made their films on VHS...so guess which type of machine sold most???). similarly, the hype surrounding CD vs mini disk cartridge in the 90's...and then both went squish due to mp3's...

i understand your point about MMP's becoming e-books and TB's still being available...but you kinda sound like i did when discussing CD vs mp3 a few years ago...and vinyl vs CD a few years before that...as much as i WANT books to be physical and turn the pages myself, the market is driving it away from that towards accessing films/music/books/data from cloud-networks... :0(



The Scion of Chemos said:


> And to answer your question on why they didn't start with TPB. IIRC, 2006 was not a time when they were doing LOADS of TPB releases. BL was a little smaller, so maybe they didn't want to risk the higher cost/lower bookstores sales(since TPB are bigger there is less room on shelves for them), and digital wasn't around for them to do their tests on. Additionally, if you have read any interviews about the start of the HH, the entire company was extremely worried it wasn't going to do well.
> You don't start something you are worried will fail with the best most expensive stuff


points taken for the TP issue and starting with MMP's first...but as for GW worried it wasnt going to do well?!?! ...please...GW have had this planned years in advance and would have done HUGE amounts of research first... ;0)



The Scion of Chemos said:


> The mid series change is annoying yes, but FFS it is not the end of the world, and if you literally cannot wait 9 months to read a book, you have bigger problems on your hands than getting a book


cannot wait for 9 months! LMFAO! ...i am STILL waiting for the Third Book of the Art from clive barker...i mean, its only been 20 YEARS so maybe, just maybe, it will be out soon...! ;0)



The Scion of Chemos said:


> So, what I am getting from you.
> "Other publishers get re-release the same content over and over again and I will happily waste money on it" but you just like to hop on the hating BL/GW bandwagon or something?
> I mean, to each their own, I just don't see the point for complaining about something that isn't going to change


other publishers MAY re-publish some books...but with GW it isnt just the books, its about their general business strategy...i am not on a GW-hating bandwagon (is there a bandwagon??? i dont have much interaction with 'the community' as i only buy the books nowadays), i just think some of their business practices suck...
...and as for "...complaining about something that isnt going to change..."...complaining/protesting/boycotting are some of the MAIN ways to instigate change...i think the suffragettes, african-americans and south africans would agree with me on that...


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## The Scion of Chemos (May 24, 2013)

lothos2008 said:


> dont have access to BL's financial data...i did what most people do when they dont know the answer to something: i asked someone who knows the answer...enter GOOGLE, the website for all the family! ...yeah, i just typed in 2 questions:
> 1) hom much does an author get from the sale of a book?
> 2) how much does a publisher get from the sale of a book?
> ...as for storage/transport costs etc...GW already has warehouses and transport facilities in place and i would think it wouldnt have to make much of an outlay (if any) to incorporate the sale of the HH series...and again, e-books have no transport/storage costs etc, so how come they still cost the same (if not more like in the recent 'Scars' series seems to be)...?
> ...


lol, yeah. Complaining for basic freedoms and such, sure THAT will do something. Along with years of bloodshed, boycotting, protesting, and HUGE social movements that dwarf the BL fanbase. Sure.
Whining on a forum about a profitable decision made by a company a year ago... isn't going to do much of anything I think.

I agree some of their business practices suck.
For the life of me, I cannot understand the whole "Black Library Exclusive" thing. Or reprinting the same story half a dozen times in anthologies that are fairly new(I can understand reprinting OLD short stories). Or why they literally rape Aus wallets when their dollar is almost the exact same as the USD 
I just don't think me ranting about the above is going to really change anything, and why waste my time ranting and being angry when I can be enjoying a book? 

P.S. 
Please excuse my terrible quoting skills, I try not to get into these matches of debate as I am terrible at using the whole "quote" deal xD


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## lothos2008 (Nov 25, 2013)

i can't say why e-books are the same price: well...i am just putting this out there but i would guess it isnt cos BL want to pay their authors MORE...differently, maybe, but cannot see authors being paid more for an e-book... :0S
...and as for Scars on digital mondays: $2.99 per episode for 12 episodes is approx $36...OMG! ...the exchange rate for $AUS to £GB is approx $1.79 to £1...so $36 is approx £20...and as Scars is £1.50 in the UK, that means we are paying £18 for it...yeah, i think you are being doubly screwed yet i seem more upset about it than you are! :0S

Steam and PC games: products are worth what people are willing to pay for them...so if no-one bought a PC game unless it was £1 then the creators+designers would deal with that...and the authors/writers/designers would get paid if enough units were sold...

e-books replacing paper-books: may not happen in your lifetime, but it will happen...and there are always people who think the 'character' if an object is worth enough to pay more for it (vinyl, CD, video tape, book, etc.) but they are a definite minority....

dan abnetts afterword: last time i read Horus Rising was years ago, and even then i think i only read the a'word when i first bought it... :0S ...but whether or not he is accurate (he could just be spouting the GW line...), maybe he is fibbing; after all, he writes fiction so he does kinda lie for a living! (sorry dan...love your stuff!)...

why whine now:as for your comments about how i have seemingly waited for 9 months + 1 year to make my feelings known, i only buy the books and my phone no longer lets me access the 1d4 chan site so from there i found the Lexicanum website and from there found Heresy...and as paceyjg's original post on this thread was:



Paceyjg said:


> Ok so some time into the HH series good old BL decide to publish them in Hardbacks. Fair enough and so I make the decision not to replace my whole series so far and buy books I already have.
> 
> I accept thats my choice and one of those consequences, is that I have to wait an extra three months after each new HH edition is published, before I can get my copy.
> 
> ...


...i figured this was a place i could vent...seemingly i was mistaken... ;0)

Change: complaining etc. isnt just for HUGE social movements, it can be used for anything...they were just a couple of the largest ones i could think of at the time; how about environmental issues? ...or education standards? ...or politicians? ...the UK joining USA invading Iraq in 2003 created a massive protest movement here...admittedly it didnt work but thTs because tony blair was (and still is) a lying git...

reprinting stories: yeah...i noticed 'the crimson fist' is £3.50 for e-book novella and it is included in 'Shadows of Treachery' which costs only £6.50 for e-book...in GW's defence though they have put a note on the BL website saying its included in SoT but still...

as for getting into a forum debate, tbh i didnt think anyone would even notice my post! :0)

finally...manipulating qoutes: when you 'quote' someone you will see at the beginning something like this:
(quote name number) ...and then their quote will begine followed by (quote)

...all you do is copy these bits and place them at the beginning and end of each statement you want to quote...so i can have you saying anything i want...like this!



The Scion of Chemos said:


> neighbours...everybody needs good neighbours!


...sorry...i couldnt help myself! :0D

NOTE TO MODERATORS: apologies for using my powers for evil, it wont happen again!
...or will it???
MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :0D

...i so need to get out more...


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## Paceyjg (May 12, 2011)

Sorry but I'm a little clueless to what some of the above posts are getting at.. it hurts my eyes just to read them!

Its a buyers market, and people have the freedom to decide if they want to pay X amount for any BL book. I never had a problem with BL widening their product range only with the fact that by doing so, they were also punishing those who did not want to pay more by making them wait longer.

Maybe its my own fault for being rather anal about my collection but I do not think it is unreasonable to enjoy collecting a series of books and then wanting to maintain said collection in the same style.


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## lothos2008 (Nov 25, 2013)

Paceyjg said:


> Sorry but I'm a little clueless to what some of the above posts are getting at.. it hurts my eyes just to read them!
> 
> Its a buyers market, and people have the freedom to decide if they want to pay X amount for any BL book. I never had a problem with BL widening their product range only with the fact that by doing so, they were also punishing those who did not want to pay more by making them wait longer.
> 
> Maybe its my own fault for being rather anal about my collection but I do not think it is unreasonable to enjoy collecting a series of books and then wanting to maintain said collection in the same style.



yeah...sorry paceyjg, by me quoting your original post you have kinda been brought in at the end! :0S

...but i am in a similar position to you: i have all the available HH books in the 'original' small paperback range and it narks me that GW/BL start bringing hardbacks out 20-odd books into the series...AND delay the small paperback versions so they can sell the hardback and then the large paperback...
...and, eventually, almost as an afterthought, the small paperback... >:0(

in scion of chemosh' defence, he did mention that he has sold his small paperbacks to a friend and then bought hardbacks instead...although that may not work for me as all my friends are now in their 40's and have kids so i dont think they would be interested...but i could sell them to their KIDS instead! ;0)


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## Paceyjg (May 12, 2011)

lothos2008 said:


> yeah...sorry paceyjg, by me quoting your original post you have kinda been brought in at the end! :0S
> 
> ...but i am in a similar position to you: i have all the available HH books in the 'original' small paperback range and it narks me that GW/BL start bringing hardbacks out 20-odd books into the series...AND delay the small paperback versions so they can sell the hardback and then the large paperback...
> ...and, eventually, almost as an afterthought, the small paperback... >:0(
> ...


No worries, I am also fast approaching 40 as well!


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## The Scion of Chemos (May 24, 2013)

Paceyjg said:


> Sorry but I'm a little clueless to what some of the above posts are getting at.. it hurts my eyes just to read them!
> 
> Its a buyers market, and people have the freedom to decide if they want to pay X amount for any BL book. I never had a problem with BL widening their product range only with the fact that by doing so, they were also punishing those who did not want to pay more by making them wait longer.
> 
> Maybe its my own fault for being rather anal about my collection but I do not think it is unreasonable to enjoy collecting a series of books and then wanting to maintain said collection in the same style.


I agree 
I am the same way with my collection. I spent, admittedly, way too much money on all of Joe Abercrombies work in hardcover. Because I wanted them in hardcover 
I could have got them for cheap as hell in paperback


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## The Scion of Chemos (May 24, 2013)

lothos2008 said:


> i can't say why e-books are the same price: well...i am just putting this out there but i would guess it isnt cos BL want to pay their authors MORE...differently, maybe, but cannot see authors being paid more for an e-book... :0S
> ...and as for Scars on digital mondays: $2.99 per episode for 12 episodes is approx $36...OMG! ...the exchange rate for $AUS to £GB is approx $1.79 to £1...so $36 is approx £20...and as Scars is £1.50 in the UK, that means we are paying £18 for it...yeah, i think you are being doubly screwed yet i seem more upset about it than you are! :0S
> 
> Steam and PC games: products are worth what people are willing to pay for them...so if no-one bought a PC game unless it was £1 then the creators+designers would deal with that...and the authors/writers/designers would get paid if enough units were sold...
> ...


Thank you for the tips on quoting 
I appreciate it 

This is most definitely a place you are free to rant. I enjoy getting to see different perspectives!
As you are free to rant, I am also free to add my thoughts on the topic you are ranting about 

I just REALLY (personally) don't like ranting on the internet, as there are millions of people doing that, and I can't imagine it doing any good 
That doesn't mean it never does any good, just that I would rather not waste my time with something I don't see is a big deal. You know?
Even if the HH continued in paperback, I would still enjoy it, and still wish that it was in my glorious hardcover, but no point in getting mad about it, imo


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## Paceyjg (May 12, 2011)

Mark of Calth just arrived through my door in mm paperback.

Even the inside covers shows three more recent books released.

I will continue to be the last to know what is happening


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## The Scion of Chemos (May 24, 2013)

Paceyjg said:


> Mark of Calth just arrived through my door in mm paperback.
> 
> Even the inside covers shows three more recent books released.
> 
> I will continue to be the last to know what is happening


Despite the fact that I own all of the HH hardcovers and LE/EE stuff, I am only just now starting Legion for the first time(in ebook format while I wait for the hardcover).
So no worries my friend, you will likely always be ahead of me


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## Paceyjg (May 12, 2011)

The Scion of Chemos said:


> Despite the fact that I own all of the HH hardcovers and LE/EE stuff, I am only just now starting Legion for the first time(in ebook format while I wait for the hardcover).
> So no worries my friend, you will likely always be ahead of me


Why so long to read them?


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## The Scion of Chemos (May 24, 2013)

Paceyjg said:


> Why so long to read them?


Well I have only been reading BL fiction for a few years. I think I started a few months before Brotherhood of the Storm came out.
The first few books I read were all in the HH series, so after finishing Descent of Angels I decided to take a break from the HH and kinda delve into 40K to get a better understanding of the universe and see why the HH is really "THAT" important.
I also read a lot of other fantasy novels as well as way too much manga, so for the past like 2 years, my time has been spent away from the HH.
Then, due to some asshats online, some major parts of the later HH books were spoiled for me.(There was no warning, nor was it really relevant to the original topic other than that it is in the 40K universe).
I am completely fine with spoilers, when done correctly .
After that, I decided to go through and read the entire series so that nothing else major is spoiled for me. I got up through Descent of Angels when one of my author friends had her debut novel published so I read that in between Descent of Angels and Legion.
I am absolutely LOVING Legion(or at least the parts actually pertaining to the Alpha Legion) thus far.
I don't know how I feel about the whole John Grammaticus thing yet.


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