# New player: Advice starting empire army



## Advisor (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi All,

It is a pleasure to be a member of this great community.

My name is Advisor and I am from Spain.

I have been playing during many years WH 40K with my LOCAL friends allways commanding an ULTRAMARINE army.

Now we plan to start playing WH FANTASY starting in January.

The army that better appeals to me is THE HUMAN EMPIRE. 

I would appreciate your support and ADVICE on how to start collecting and EMPIRE army: what to start buying, advice on tactics, errors to avoid when collecting empire, etc.

The type of ARMY that I would like to play is a BALANCED and FLEXIBLE one with important levels of ARTILLERY and based in COUNTERATTACK: decimating the enemy while he is advancing towards me and with enough flexibilty to adjust my actions according to the attacking plan of my enemy.

Thanks in advanced for your help!

Advisor


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

Welcome to Heresy Advisor, since you already have given some of the main points already all that really remains is what point limit you're planning to play games at and also if there is a particular set of models that you wish to avoid?


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## Advisor (Dec 8, 2013)

Hello Ratvan,

Thank you very much for your message.

We are planning to play games of 2.000 points, so we are designing our first army lists and adquisitions around this size.

The reallity is that I like all the models regarding their lore and looking.

My main friends are building the following armies: Dwarves (focused in infantry and antimagic), Warriors of chaos (elite oriented) and Demons (Nurgle). They are all very agressive players while I am a more balanced player focused in adapting and counterattacking.

Thank you for helping with advice and ideas on how to design my army and how to plan my first adquisitions.

Best personal regards!

Advisor


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

Advisor said:


> Hello Ratvan,
> 
> Thank you very much for your message.
> 
> ...


Not a problem, that is what this forum is for helping each other out. Ok so in reality there isn't really any bad advice when it comes to collecting apart from if buying 2nd hand be careful as it can take a lot of time and effort getting the models to a good standard. Apart from the the Battleforce is a good deal (at least here in uk) so I would recommend that purchase and working to something along the lines of the below

Templar Grand Master - 259 pts
Shield, Runefang, The Other Trickster's Shard

Captain of the Empire - 143 pts
Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Shield, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm

Battle Wizard - 125 pts
Level 2, Dispel Scroll

15 Handgunners - 155 pts
Musician, Standard Bearer

29 Halberdiers - 194 pts
Musician, Standard Bearer

9 Inner Circle Knights - 250 pts
Musician, Standard Bearer, Gleaming Pennant

Great Cannon - 120 pts

Great Cannon - 120 pts

30 Greatswords - 350 pts
Musician, Standard Bearer

3 Demigryph Knights - 184 pts
Musician

5 Pistoliers - 100 pts
Musician

You should have enough shooting to put a dent into the aggressive players forces with the cannons and the blackpowder weapons before you can counter charge with the Knights, Halberds and Greatswords where weight of numbers should give you the advantage.


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## iamtheeviltwin (Nov 12, 2012)

Ratvan said:


> Templar Grand Master - 259 pts
> Shield, Runefang, The Other Trickster's Shard
> 
> Captain of the Empire - 143 pts
> ...


That looks like a decent All Comers list, with one exception. If you are going to take the list I would replace the Handgunners with Crossbow. The extra 6" of range is a much bigger deal than Armor Piercing.

That said, I would highly recommend replacing either the xbow or handgunners with 2 detachments of 5 archers attached to the Halberdiers (for chaff, redirection purposes) and another 10 man unit of archers to act as the bunker for the Wizard.

Also if you are going to play that sort of list I would famliarize yourself with "The Griffon Formation", it will let you take advantage of chaff and diverters so that your combat blocks (GS, ICK, and DGK) can best deliver their punch.


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

iamtheeviltwin said:


> That looks like a decent All Comers list, with one exception. If you are going to take the list I would replace the Handgunners with Crossbow. The extra 6" of range is a much bigger deal than Armor Piercing.
> 
> That said, I would highly recommend replacing either the xbow or handgunners with 2 detachments of 5 archers attached to the Halberdiers (for chaff, redirection purposes) and another 10 man unit of archers to act as the bunker for the Wizard.
> 
> Also if you are going to play that sort of list I would famliarize yourself with "The Griffon Formation", it will let you take advantage of chaff and diverters so that your combat blocks (GS, ICK, and DGK) can best deliver their punch.


That's really good advice, the Griffon Formation looks very interesting as well


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## Advisor (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi Ratvan and Iamtheeviltwin, 

I want to THANK YOU very much for your answers. They have been of great help. 

Taking into consideration that I want to build a BALANCED list as a whole and taking into consideration the list of Ratvan and the advice of Iamtheeviltwin regarding extrarange of crossbows units I would appreciate again your help with my bellow questions:

1. Which is your advice regarding the RANKS configuration of the infantry and knight units (ROW * COLUMNS)? 

a) 29 Halberdiers 
b) 15 Crossbows 
c) 30 Swordmen 
d) 9 Inner Circle Knights 

2. The Crossbows unit is played as a DETACHMENT of HALLBERDIERS unit? Or there is a better detachement configuration between Hallberdiers, Swordmen and Crossbows units?

3. Proposal to bring the list to 2.500 points? (maybe 1*STEAM TANK + 1*VOLLEY CANNON + 1 PRIEST/ENGINEER/HERO)? 

Thanks again for your allways GREAT help. 

Lordmariskal

____________________________________________________________
*Templar Grand Master* - 259 pts 
Shield, Runefang, The Other Trickster's Shard 

*Captain of the Empire* - 143 pts 
Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Shield, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm 

*Battle Wizard* - 125 pts 
Level 2, Dispel Scroll 

*15 Crossbows* - 155 pts 
Musician, Standard Bearer 

*29 Halberdiers* - 194 pts 
Musician, Standard Bearer 

*9 Inner Circle Knights* - 250 pts 
Musician, Standard Bearer, Gleaming Pennant 

*Great Cannon* - 120 pts 

*Great Cannon* - 120 pts 

*30 Greatswords* - 350 pts 
Musician, Standard Bearer 

*3 Demigryph Knights* - 184 pts 
Musician 

*5 Pistoliers* - 100 pts 
Musician 

*TOTAL POINTS = 2.000 points*


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

Well this is where it all boils down to personal preference and what you are facing, 

1. Halberdiers - I would deploy them 5 wide and 6 deep if you are going to be fighting something stronger than yourself (Chaos Warriors, Saurus Warriors etc) to allow for steadfast, if you're fighting something equal or weaker (Goblins, Skaven, Elves) I would go either horde (10 x 3) or two models wider than your opponents unit to maximise attacks.

Crossbows, I would deploy them 8 wide and 2 deep with the Wizard in the front rank, this will allow all of the models to shoot.

Swordsmen, Greatswords? I would deploy 10 wide and 3 deep as they're stubborn they're less likely to break and all the models in the unit can attack.

ICK I would deploy 5 wide again with the Grand master in the front rank so all the members of the unit can attack on the charge (minus the 2nd ranks horses) 

2. The Crossbow unit I proposed as an additional unit and not as a detachment, the last time I played as Empire the detachments did not have all the benefits that they now do.

3. To bring the list to 2500 I would add some archers to your core, or another 3 ICK and a mounted warriors pries to give the unit (not characters) hatred on the first round of combat, other than that Steam Tank sounds good


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## iamtheeviltwin (Nov 12, 2012)

The Halberdiers should generally be run in a bus formation (5X6), their primary purpose is going to be to take wounds and hold up enemies while your Greatswords, Knights, and DGK do the dirty work.

The GS combat block should be ranked up to maximize attacks. If you can Horde it up (10x3) you will get 30ish attacks back, when it is going to attack you should rank up so you will get maximum attacks since that is the purpose of the unit.

The knights are the same way. With only 10 (9+GM) you are unlikely to get any rank bonuses, so you want to maximize your frontage to get the best charge you can. 

Ditto for the Crossbow, there is no advantage to having a rank that cannot fire, so rank them where you can get all the shots. Crossbow, however, are not the best of detachments if you plan on moving the halberdiers much. The "Stand and Shoot" rule makes it difficult to really support the regimental unit as it moves. 

As for things to add to bulk it out. The Steam Tank is worth every penny in points, it is an extra cannon, can tarpit just about anything, and often can grind down most units.

I would also add 10-15 archers to use as detachments for the Halberdiers. 2-3 units of 5 make great diverters and screens for other units.

Warrior Priests are invaluable for your combat units. Hatred is worth the 60pts or so for a naked Warrior Priest. 

---------------------------------------

Another option if you want to run a more traditional list built around a core unit with support detachments. Build around the Greatsword block (in a bus formation 5x6) with 2 detachments of 15 Halberdiers along each wing. They can be used to countercharge and close in flanks when the GS regiment unit engages and the Halberdier detachments will benefit from the Warrior Priest that you are including. I would still pick up the 2x5 man archer attachments to act as front screeners.


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