# How in depth do you go...



## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

...in to developing your army/ armies.

I've seen folks go as far as developing interesting backstories, making up a complete TO&E for each unit, naming vehicles, dreads, elites...everything.

How in-depth do YOU go?


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I do everything. I've written something stupid like 200 pages' worth of fluff for one of my armies. Complete Chapter history, heroes, combat doctrines, etc. Naming units in the army list is standard for almost everyone, I think.


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

The Son of Horus said:


> I do everything. I've written something stupid like 200 pages' worth of fluff for one of my armies. Complete Chapter history, heroes, combat doctrines, etc. Naming units in the army list is standard for almost everyone, I think.


Is it?
I'm just wondering at what point does the extra effort become "weird".
Not pointing fingers or anything...I've done most of this myself. Just wondering how far people go, and what is considered "obsessive".

I played a guy who had a T-Shirt made, stickers, names on every dude...for his made up SM Chapter. I thought it was cool and all...then wondered if it was a bit much. Not knowing where that "line" is for others, I posed this question (and this thread).


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

I think the line is different for each person. Example:

In my army list, everyone vet sergeant and up has a name, but the only ones I really remember are Vet. Sergeant Deitrich, because of the way I converted him, and General Reaper, the commander of my army. I do write background fluff for my army, but not very much.

Basically what I'm saying is, if this guy has the will and the rescources to make T-Shirts, bumper stickers, and whatever the hell else it is you said he made concerning his army, _and_ actively participate in the hobby, paint, model, game etc. then more power to him. But if you don't want to do that much, don't, but don't spite him for getting really into it.

Out.


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

Oh, no spite here. Just wondering. I realize my perspective of the hobby is limited, so I was posing the question to get a wider view.


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Sorry, I didn't mean to come on so strong. *slaps forehead*


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

No worries man. No harm, no foul. Hard to tell through text anyhow.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

I generally name my HQ's and champs in squads. Squad names are named for the Champion/Shas'ui/etc leading them. I don't do anything beyond that however as is it not my bag at all. Kudos to those who do but I would rather paint my models than write about them


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## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

Being far more gifted with the power of words than the power of the brush, I spend a good quantity of my hobby time writing about my Space Marines. I don't bother writing fluff for my orks, not much to do with them besides come up with a klan name and explain their shootiness. My space marines were Crimson Fists so I would often spend time setting up different dioramas showing battles between my forces and then writing about it. For me, 40k was just an adult evolution of playing with green plastic army men. My girlfriend had a laughing fit when she found me in the bath with them lined up along the edge and bobbing around in the water. I tried to explain I was just using an old toothbrush to remove the paint while I took a soak, but the damage was done.


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

I am starting to write really heavey SM fluff, but first i have toassemble some cool models.


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## Farseertyross (Jan 24, 2007)

I've got detailed fluff on all my armies, which is not an easy feat . Consider that it's all inter-linked, and taking into account the number and variety of the armies I play:

Blood Wind (Khorne)
Pleasure Wind (Slaanesh)
Changing Wind (Tzeentch)
Plague Wind (Can you guess?  Nurgle)
Primal Guard (Guard, traitors, primitivee)
Danitun Guard (Guard, traitors)
Order of the Raped Virgin (Sisters of Battle)
Hivefleet Buanneth'Ann (Tyranids)
Cha'Mont'Yr Tau (Ummm, Tau?)
Cult of the Emerald Talon (Dark Eldar)
Fists of Flame (Space Marines)


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## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

There are people out there who go very in depth to thier armies that its kinda sad. But then again, theres nothing better to do. What bothers me is when people try to "bend" other story lines whith thier fluff.


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## hephesto (Feb 24, 2007)

I name my HQ choices, champions and every now and then 
I come up with some story for a special unit.

Being a chaos oriented guy I have quite a bit of options when
it comes down to stories, this is why is try to come up with
reasons for the army leaders to actually be leading this army
or why certain units are in the army.

My current word bearer force for example is joined by a renegade
thousand sons, a former servant of Ahriman who seeks revenge 
against his former master. He has joined forces with a relatively
low ranking dark apostle, who using te sorceror's added knowledge 
of daemons has launched an assault on a backwater industrial world 
in order to claim 1 'ingredient' of what he hopes will be his road to 
daemonhood.

Beyond that I just like to make up a small background story for a
batte or series of battle I play every now and then against 2 guys
I know that also like to goof around with this hobby,


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

I don't do any fluff at all. I do however enjoy and appreciate what others have done.


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## bob syko (Mar 18, 2007)

I don't really bother with that side of the hobby. I find that the books by black library writers are written bad enough, the stuff I write would no doubt be like having your entire head waxed.


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

What! Are you nuts! 

Obviously you are reading the wrong books. Try Gaunt's Ghosts, Eisenhorn, Storm of Iron, Horus Heresy series. All superb.

Honestly, as an avid reader I can safely say that some of the BL writers write some of the best Sci-Fi there is.


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## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

The only book I had a problem with is the sons of Fenris, Great storyline, but the space marines seem too.....human. In all the other books ive read they are very duty driven and have little room for goofing around in the kitchens ect. Opinions?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Well I'm more a writer than a painter, and yes I will admit that I have bent at least one story line to make a army seem a little more legit. I mean in theroy why shouldn't the Radicals have a force of guys like the Grey Knights?


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## bob syko (Mar 18, 2007)

Anphicar said:


> What! Are you nuts!
> 
> Obviously you are reading the wrong books. Try Gaunt's Ghosts, Eisenhorn, Storm of Iron, Horus Heresy series. All superb.


I guess I just don't like the style. At the risk of sounding stupid, all the big words in them confuse me. Let me explain. It's not that I don't know what the words mean because I do but in pretty much every GW book I have read (Dan Abnet is a bugger for this) they just seem to litter a page with as many big words as they can, I don't know why they do this but I don't like it. They will go on and on about a room, describing every little detail, using words like Kaleidoscopically (I'm guessing that's not how it's spelt but hopefully you know what it's supposed to be) to describe a window with a bit of light shining through it. By the time I have got to the end of a sentence I have forgotten how it started. 

I find all these long words get in the way of actually enjoying the book, that is why I don't like Black library books, I don't like fantasy either, it's not just 40k.

Hopefully I got through that post without seeming stoopid or ignorant.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Sorry man not meaning to be mean or anything but I think after what you just said its hard to come off as anything else.


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## bob syko (Mar 18, 2007)

Are you going to explain why? I find the books amazingly pretentious which is why I don't like them.


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

The purpose of those "big words" is to paint a picture truer to the authors point of view.

I really can't stand when people label words "big." Its a pet-peeve, really. Dont take offense.

Yes, the words may in fact me less commonly used, or indeed longer.

But every word, even if it is labeled synonymous with another, has its own connotation, regardless of how big or small it is in comparision to others. 

That allows one to create exactly the image they want to portray.

Your example is perfect. I do not mean to slight you, but say the author just said "shiney, multi-colored glass." Yes, the image does come off. 

But it is boring, and we get a much more vivid an interesting image from "kaleidoscopically."


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

You state that the sentences have too many big words in them, I'm sorry but how else can you take that?


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

I generally don't bother with fluff (last GT came to haunt me on that one!)
If It's a tournament requirement I do generally make the effort as It's compulsory. I do enjoy the fluff, thoroughly enjoyed the Gaunts Ghosts books and the Horus Heresy series has me hooked but I Just don't have the ability or time to produce my own. My armies are usually themed around a certain playstyle rather than a set story/fluff If It's fun to play and does well on the battle field I'm happy.


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## bob syko (Mar 18, 2007)

Jacobite said:


> You state that the sentences have too many big words in them, I'm sorry but how else can you take that?


Well, not liking books full of overly long words doesn't make a person stupid. It just means that it isn't their cup of tea. I don't expect an author to describe things as basically as they can but writers like Terry Pratchet paint a far more detailed picture by letting you use your imagination which I prefer.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I'd rather not piss anybody off so I think we will just have to agree to disagree.


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

I like to expand the old vocabulary, so any book that sends me off looking in the dictionary a couple of times is a good thing.
As to the length of the the words within a book as long as they 'paint the picture' I am happy either way.


Now back on topic..... Fluff wise I tend to name all the Sergeant level characters upwards but when it comes to their background it tends to be earnt during games, major characters I fluff from the start or they are a slowly promoted Sergents.

I have a Vet Sergent in my old Marine army that has been converted with a Howling Banshee's power sword, because he somehow survived a charge from them whilst his squad died in a 2nd edition game. 
This one instance has started this chap on the road to a fully fledged character and he is now used in small point games as my force commander. 

This means I quite often have different models to represent the same guy through different stages of his 'life'. (see My Alpha Legion Chaos sorcerers in gallery for example of this.)


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## Initiate (Mar 25, 2007)

Ummm... I am currently writing pages and pages of fluff for my non existent army. I have nothing better to do until i get my models so im becoming one with my army. And besides, i enjoy writing fiction, especially about 40k


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## Initiate (Mar 25, 2007)

I am currently writing pages and pages of fluff for my non existent army. I have nothing better to do until i get my models so im becoming one with my army. And besides, i enjoy writing fiction, especially about 40k. Fiction opens my mind and i like to day dream and imagine. And i agree with viscount about the big words. As long as it describes what its trying to describe, im fine with expanding my vocabulary.


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## blkdymnd (Jan 1, 2007)

Well, for me this is the first time I've gone all-in on an army I'm building/painting and creating a DIY chapter of my own. I've had the idea in my head for a couple years on how my Apothecary chapter was based on, but never could get it to all come together. Finally last month, The Purifiers finally came together and I'm very happy with the result so far, and with a couple buddies help I was able to even come up with its own faux Index Astartes page (which is in my signature /shameless plug). So, for this one I have fully immersed myself and have even structured my tournament list towards it.


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## Seabovine (Apr 20, 2007)

I know this is a bit off topic, i have not made any fluffs and stuff for my army, because i just started, which is an ork army, but which part should i start off writing on, the warboss or the clan?


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

I used to write reams of stuff when I was younger, Heroes of the Chapter, past campaigns, the Founding, combat doctrine, etc.
I also had the obssession with inventing my own units both in-game and in my background story- Scorpion Commandos, Shadow Dropships, Venators, Scorpion Blades, etc.

As for naming models, with the Astartes it's quite easier.

My first Tactical Squad is called Tactical Squad I
My second is called Tactical Squad II, etc.

For my IG pretty much similar:

7th Co.
1st Infantry Platoon
Infantry Squad A

Etc.

I seemed to have moved away, or been dragged from, background play- most of my games it is 'tourney rules? ok, see who's best'.
Many opponents are permanently training for tournaments, and even when not there's not the time or inclination to produce in-depth backgrounds (they do insist on having jobs, tut, tut).

I'm guilty too, I keep meaning to treat my games like a narrative, try to engineer epic confrontations between the rival commanders, etc- but when the dice start rolling it's tourney mode instinctively. 'I could do this and it would make absolute sense from background, but it will lose me the game so I won't' etc


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## blkdymnd (Jan 1, 2007)

Seabovine said:


> I know this is a bit off topic, i have not made any fluffs and stuff for my army, because i just started, which is an ork army, but which part should i start off writing on, the warboss or the clan?


I would start with basic ideas of the Klan and then let it flow from there. A lot of times your characters and such will come to life unintentionally as you're writing and developing your background story, thats what happened with mine.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

For me its the other way round when it comes to Orks. I usually start with the Boss and what he is like and then work out how he came to be Boss of the clan. Then I work out the characteristics of the Clan.

It's different from other armies because the personality of your Boss dictates the personality of your clan. It's not like with Space Marines or Imperial Gaurd where as soon as one leader dies another one gets promoted and continues to follow orders from above. When your Warboss dies there is a high chance that the clan will change it's direction.

Just my thoughts.


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## Seabovine (Apr 20, 2007)

Thank you both for the help  

a bit off topic but How do i get a profile picture?


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

I always start with the fluff. I'm rubbish at tactics and army selection, but quite like the idea of backstory, having come to all this through RPGs many years ago. 

A lot of the time I'll be looking fluff because I've bought a cool mini and I need to justify it, but then again a lot of the time I'll buy a new squad or cool figure just because I've thought of some good background.

Different armies have different amounts of background though. I haven't really developed the fluff of my Ork army very far - there's a few mobs however that I have some ideas for.

My Skarboys (old Space Crusade models) have Crimson Fist shoulderpads, a relic of the assault on Rynn's World (in other words, looted, lucky and blue); they also have Goff quilted jackets, bad moon and red sun glyphs (they're already on the minis), reallly horrid camoflage (black, purple, yellow and white) trousers, brown leather other bits, as well as the traditional chopper/slugga combo.

In fluff terms they're made up members of all the Klans - any boy that survives a few battles gets invited to join the Skarboyz, but they agree to give up old Klan affiliations and wear all the symbols. they look awesome/awful (depending on taste), but I like the idea behind it (anyway, who's to say what looks good to an ork?)

More on this I'm sure to follow... I'm probably better at writing about my armies than playing with them...


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

OK, I said there'd be more.

I joined this forum because I wanted tips on painting African skin. I wanted tips on african skin because I'm going to do some models for a Salamander successor chapter. This chapter, whom I may call the Jade Templars, have quite a convoluted history...

Basically, there are around 250 of them left - the rest have either gone over to or been slaughtered by a Thousand Sons/Alpha Legion attack/plot, resulting in the loss of the Jade Templars' homeworld (with the central monastery/fortress of the whole setup, the Jade Temple itself), as well as forgeworlds etc supplying the chapter.

As a result, the surviving Jade Templars are pretty peed off with both afore-mentioned chaos marine chapters, and their own former brethren. They travel the galaxy in their battle-barges (they were an expeditionary force when the attack on their homeworld began) searching for the enemies they have sworn to destroy, building their strength (tho of course they'll never be strong enough) to assault the hell that their homeworld has become.

The chapter traits flow from this - oh, not got my codex in front of me, you know the not having much heavy support one; not having a permenent base of operations has really put paid to their ability to wage protracted, mechanized war.

So they've taken the 'Cleanse and purify' trait of their Salamander forebears, but also taken 'infiltrate' because now they're hunting the vile traitors who have dishonoured them. 

As an added fluff 'bonus', because the Thousand Sons corrupted their librarians first, the survivors killed their librarians; now they have none and may use no psychic allies ('have faith in suspicion" I think it's called. Yes, a disadvantage, just for the hell of it).

So what is the point of all this, you may well ask?

Well, the point is, I was looking for a justification/backstory for some chaos marine models I have, playing with the idea of lots of plasma guns, and thinking about the chapter they may have come from when I noticed that the Salamanders do not have any listed successors... so I invented the chapter, just to destroy it (mostly) for the sake of the story.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, not only do my armies have fluff, my FLUFF has fluff. And sometimes, my fluff has armies.

Nuff from me. Probably more later though!


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## GRUBSNIK (Sep 11, 2007)

I'm still trying to write a backstory for my beekies (da boyz are pretty much covered: Orks appear from damp patch behind the fridge or wherever. Orks want cool dakka. Orks need gubbinz. Orkz krump humies to get gubbinz and make dakka.) and it ain't easy. I do have a central idea for them, but I've just started reading the Soul Drinkers Omnibus and the word 'd'oh!' has never been far from my lips lately. It's like convergent evolution of the brain: the details differ, but the underlying purpose and end result have come out much the same.
Cue much scribbling and typing and wotnot. I'm going to try to distance them from the SD as much as a bunch of free Marines fighting for the Emperor's true vision and the good of mankind can be.
I only came up with them because I figured the 40K universe needed some actual Good Guys.

:|


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I never start an army unless its got good fluff behind it (lol) Seriously though if i don't believe in why they are fighting i won't collect them, which is why i've always been playing "Good" armies. Until recently, i've read alot of books and begun to be turned now i'm gonna make a word beaers, i mean whats the best chaos legion to turn to when you've been fighting for the imperium for so long, the legion that was so devoted until they found the truth 

Anyway i like giving my officers and especially the leader of my force, names and a small history for the leader i usually give the dreadnaught a name to and a reason for why he is entombed in it.


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## drake1813 (Sep 23, 2007)

I make BAckstories for all my army generals and name the rest. Sometimes I make backstories fo other characters though. Making T shirts is a bit too far i rekon but at least he was getting into the hobby


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I make sure every unit has a name, whether it simply be the Sergeant's, or it's a Captain, Chaplain, dreadnought, whatever. I haven't gone so far as to name each individual Space Marine of the Lions Rampant 5th Company...yet... but that'll probably happen at some point or another.


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## GRUBSNIK (Sep 11, 2007)

Well, if you name them all individually, what happens when they die? Do you have to make up a new name or put the dead guy in the bin or something? Verisimily-wosit, and all that. He can't be in the next game if he's dead! But if it's a new guy who just looks a lot like him, that's different...
Howver, there is, of course, always an apothecary nearby when the big boss guy gets shot, so he can drag him away to safety. It's just common sense. :mrgreen:


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

GRUBSNIK said:


> ... Do you have to make up a new name or put the dead guy in the bin or something? ...


You could always say "well, he was incapacitated during the battle (because that's all 'dead' means in a battle!) but later recovered to fight again..."

That's why campaigns generally have rules for bringing a percentage of your troops back, isn't it? :wink: 

:cyclops:


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

And ultimately, the army represents the army at a current point-- for example, the GW studio Ultramarines army is the 2nd Company as it is under Cpt. Sicarius. Sicarius can die in any number of games, but that particular army still represents how the Company looked under him.


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## Gizor (Oct 1, 2007)

I am too poor to buy models most of the time, but writing is free! I actually spent a nice bit of time writing the history for my chaos chapter that I posted around here somewhere. The only question is if anyone would be willing to read all that fluff! But I think the backstory part of the fluff is what interests me the most, and my models are just a visual representation of my story, and not that the story represents my models.


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

I havn't named any of my models yet, But I routinely bark orders at my troops while I move them around on the table.


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## GRUBSNIK (Sep 11, 2007)

Engelus said:


> But I routinely bark orders at my troops while I move them around on the table.


I get my sergeant to do it. 's what they're for, dontcherknow.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I only name my promient characters first including dreadnughts give them a short back ground and get on with it. Then if some figure does something in a game thats pretty cool i'll try tie it in with my ongoing dark apostle fluff but since my army isn't up and running yet i havent added anymore fluff to them.


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## freaklord (Sep 13, 2007)

i name my squad and hq leaders, and of course my tanks and other vehicles, but if i write fluff it's usually of introductions for campaigns and the like. I don't really do and background for my forces. it only gets a bit weird when you start dressing up as your commanding officer.


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## Gizor (Oct 1, 2007)

freaklord said:


> it only gets a bit weird when you start dressing up as your commanding officer.


Ok, give me a break, it was halloween 2 years ago, I haven't put that costume back on but four, maybe five times.

But for real, back on topic.

I have just started writing what I will call the codex of my army, which is basically my chapter's bible. I even set it up just like the bible and the first few books are written just like bible verses. So far it is only like 20 pages, but I plan on having a 200 page text. Just for fun.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

I've written a few short stories, names most of the characters, and even act their parts out during a battle every once in a while. I've also scratch built many of the models in my army (vehicles mostly), and try to find unique paint schemes, poses, and list designs.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

My local GW manager says I should get a shrink, because I've names every unit in in my 5500 point SM list. Not every squad, mind you. Every MARINE. Every tank, dred, even my most proficient pieces of wargear have names. Ever since my single Devastator, Lavernius, killed two Leman Russ and a Chimera, his Lascannon has been called "PanzerJaeger"

That's "Tank Killer" in German, by the way.

-Dirge


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