# Forge World - Primarch Idea



## Kaoscontrol (Jan 25, 2007)

Now i brought this up on the SWCHQ forum bored a few weeks ago about this small idea for forge world to produce a primarch collectors line! 

the reason for this was mainly to do with finding quite a few very nicely sculpted ideas for the Death guard Primarch.

I know GW released the primarches but IMHO they are very out dated and look nothing like what they should really (leman russ being a prime example)

What do you guys think of this and would you buy any if they did acctualy do something like this?

I know one of the flaws in this idea is we each have our own concepts of the primarches and how they look seen as there isnt really much said about them, and if something like this happens it would almost as such cast the look in stone and mean THAT is the right look compaired to what we each think. 

but just thought i'd see what you folk think


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

I voted yes if reasonably priced. However, and this is a big however, Forgeworld is NEVER reasonably priced. Ever.


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## TheEmperor'sChampion (Jan 24, 2007)

ok, they already have artwork and plenty of it. i mean the emperor is sitting on the website banner. i mean they even made some rules for them in special scenarios..


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Not going to happen. Seriously, with all the thousands of different visions of the Primarchs floating around out there, making one and thereby insisting that it is the official and therefore only image of said Primarch is going to piss everybody off.

Besides, Anggron would be far too large.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I'd say no. The Primarchs are worthy of something greater than a standard model, even if that standard model is produced by forge world. A model of a Primarch should be a labor of love by an individual, a creation made in dedication to so mighty a hero (or villain, as the case may be) in the mythos of this hobby we engross ourselves within. The Sanguinius model I made using green stuff, a Reaper model, and parts of the Lord of Change wings is kind of what I mean... it should be highly personalized and really reflect your devotion. It's not something you'll ever, ever, ever be able to use in a game, so you might as well make it as much of a display miniature as you can. The Sanguinius model I made is about the size of a dreadnought-- it's definitely too big for 40k.


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

They did Russ ages ago as a lead model with a couple of wolves on leashes. Which was truly underwhelming.

It seems unlikely but if they do, it should be as a bust not a full model.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

The main problems with sculpting and painting a primarch are threefold. You have to make them _big_, both physically and in presence, as they were much larger than even normal Space Marines and had an aura of might around them that only very, very good sculptors can create, and even then only with luck. Secondly, the model must have what could be the most finely balanced level of detail in sculpt and painting of all. They must be sculpted and painted with epic skill and intricacy, yet without making the model too busy and ruining it. Finally, it actually has to look something like what the Primarch should. So very few of the people out there have the skill to sculpt a proper Primarch, and there aren't all that many people who have the knowledge of precisely what they should be. In fact, I can only think of a few that know enough of the real details. A such, you've got to combine a uniquely talented sculptor and painter, with the will and drive to create a Primarch, the dedication to research them properly, and the luck to get it right. This is a rare enough combination when you don't count finding someone willing to pay the enormous price to obtain a true Primarch model.

So far, I've only seen a few models that counld be considered close to what a Primarch should be, and each of them falls down in some area. Those on the easy-to-access CMON are both Samuel888's and Sophia's Mortarion, Hortwerth's Ferrus Manus, and Reg's Night Haunter (barely) and Angron.

These all come close to what a Rpimarch should be, but as of yet I've only seen one true-to-life Primarch model, that being Sanguinis, and that was in a physical picture a while ago.

Funnily enough, very few people get the loyalist Primachs right. They all seem to forget that they're two feet taller than their brethren Space Marines at the shortest, and make them out of normal marines with far too much crappy detail.


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

I do think you're being a bit harsh on Foregworld there Uber.

If any mainstream studio were to do justice to the primarchs, it would be Forgeworld. However, I'm with Horus on this one. It would be tremendously disappointing to see a standard-template primarch, and would take something away from the spectacular modeller efforts that are out there.

I checked out Uber's suggestions, and theyre all flawless. I would add to this list - Scibor's Gulliman (http://www.coolminiornot.com/144732) i think it perfectly captures the simplicity and mild brutality of the character.


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

Alot of that model is amazing.. Which makes me wonder what caused the half-ass cape and the terrible backpack top-vent. It truly is an amzing pose for Guilliman, and I agree it perfectly captures the solemn brilliance of him. I'd have rather saw the bolter hanging down and a copy of the Codex Astartes in the sword hand. Still, perfect pose. I just can't see how he made such a great model and left those two major errors, especially that absolutely terrible-terrible-terrible top vent. It looks like melted plastic..

I'd like to see it made by forgeworld, based on that model.

Khaine


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

That's why it wasn't there. A magnificent work barring a single flaw is worse than a lesser but flawless piece, and between the cape, powerplant, and chestplate, it's just too much.

The main issue is that for Forgeworld to produce the sort of standard I expect of a primarch would result in a ludicrously expensive model- even for Forgeworld - and that would probably guarantee it to be a commercial bollocks-up in the making.


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## Badkarma (Dec 27, 2006)

> The main issue is that for Forgeworld to produce the sort of standard I expect of a primarch would result in a ludicrously expensive model- even for Forgeworld - and that would probably guarantee it to be a commercial bollocks-up in the making.


I would have to agree with Uber on this one.

Primarchs should be a living embodiment of mystery and power, to make one would be to crush peoples vision of them.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Not neccesarily, since I've seen a few models that make even me say 'Yeah, that's a Primarch'. It's just that I can't see it being both adequate _and_ commerically successful.


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

If they made a different Primarch for all the Major Chapters then i would, but otherwise i wouldnt. it would ruin the whole primarch idea, also what would their stats be, they would be like 10 everything!! i mean they ARE the leaders of the Chapters. Mind you their is a Marneus Calgar, but he isnt a primach. Just a Chapter commander.


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

Considering the closest non-daemon-prince living descendant of the primarchs(and only one step removed) is Abaddon, I'd used a slightly augmented version of his stats. Whatever the difference is between Abaddon and a basic guardsman should be the difference between a primarch and abaddon, for ease of rules purposes. That would put them at about a greater daemons power, which is practically what they are. Moreso greater celestials of the imperium than daemons though.

I'd love to see a limited edition run of each primarch, even if rules weren't made. Every bloke from Bromley to Sydney would use the model for his lord of whichever army he used.

But then if we are doing primarchs, are they all from the same time period? If so, half of them aren't mutated by chaos yet but still evil. It would be best to create each at his strongest, albeit daemon princehood or in a major HH battle.


-Khaine-


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## Grismund (Jan 31, 2007)

guy back to the topic this is not about his stats but do you wnat one or not and the resons why

well i would like one of dorn as hes my iron snakes primark and id love to have him

gris


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

yea, if there was a primach for my chapter i would get him just for the symbolism


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## Grismund (Jan 31, 2007)

looks like your shelling out for the lot of em then dont it

gris


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

I really don't think so because then you'd have to ask permission to use them in a game. As long as we're fantasizing here, why don't we fantasize that GW is re-releasing them, that way they'd be game legal?


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

That would make them, by my thoughts, an even greater failure. By having profiles they would be moved from simply collector items to actual game models, which in itself is inofesnive but unleashes a panoply of other problems.

Chief among them is the game-fluff consideration. The RPimarchs, of all things, have the greatest of expectations behind them. They should, by all rights, be able to pick up a Wraithlord and throw it over a cliff. However, there are already forces out there that could and should stop them, those being the C'tan. A Primarch against, say, the Nightbringer in its current (weakened) state should be an epic battle, and one very closely matched. However, to make a Primarch's profile suit this while keeping them in line with superhumanity would make them too weak to take on the normal guys in a fashion that suits them. In essence, they'll either shatter long-held fluff convictions, or break expectations, neither of which are good for business.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

I'm going for maybe, it would mess up the hole myserty thing but it would be great to see what they look like.


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

ive rethought about it. I think the should make them just as collectors models, not able to be played gamewise but just there to look good on the battle field at the back, or front, of your army, whatever suits. The whole sybolism thing.


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

Even though I'd love to see it, the biggest problem in doing this is GW. They half-ass their rules without even playtesting anymore. If they put actual time into something like this, I think it would come out great. But their personal motto if just doing things without any of the necessary mediums would just plain destroy the primarchs, their stats, the models, and forever their myth.

-Khaine-


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

yea, i agree actually. It would be so difficult to start with, and with GW half-ass attitude it would turn out crap.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

if it was forgeworld i wouldn't buy them. They are expenisive and the quality is shit. I've ordered stuff 3 times from forgeworld and twice been very very disappointed with the quality. Massive mismolded areas, huge moldlines, bent pieces, snapped pieces. They are a nightmare to assemble. The one piece i have been happy with, a mate ordered with his stuff, and he cleaned up and pinned the model for me.


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## TheEmperor'sChampion (Jan 24, 2007)

well i can tell you a little about the rules. the funniest thing was that magnus actually had to take psychic tests because he only had the mark of chaos undivided. 

they all couldnt be instant deathed, and they all had iron will. ferrus manus had arms that added plus one strength and counted as power weapons. russ had his wolves. luther was in it just because he was the opposing character in the scenario with the johnson. he exploded when you killed him. id love to tell you all of it, but sadly it is lost to oblivion. we had about 5 or 6 copies gw sent us, i had one of them in my room but sometime over the years it disappeared. it was about 5 or 6 years ago, so it was at my house, my mother has a tendency to make things disappear, like my rulebook. i still look for that piece of paper to this day. also just to point out there were no point costs. they were written for 3 specific scenarios each involving a good and evil character. gw sent them to our local store for a mega-battle we were having.


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

yea i agree with jigplums. if it was forgeworld i wouldnt buy it., their quality is crap. i bought a forgeworld heavy bolter SM and his arm didnt sit properly at all


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

i know im beginning the sound like a Scibor advert, but check this out, he's ditched the molds for this...

http://www.coolminiornot.com/148583


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Perhaps if the head didn't look somewhat contorted, it'd be more fitting. Also, what exactly is wrong with moulding if it produces a higher quality miniature for the customer?


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Yeah the head does look a little mishapen.

Slothguinius!










"hey you guys!"

(i'm just jealous - the paint job is superb!)


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

uberschveinen said:


> Perhaps if the head didn't look somewhat contorted, it'd be more fitting. Also, what exactly is wrong with moulding if it produces a higher quality miniature for the customer?


i'm not against it at all! he used molds-a-plenty on my model, its just that alot of people (on CMON) have a go at him for being skill-less (check the feedback on my model, one guy called 'marius' goes mental). It's just nice to see him show off.


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