# Maelstrom Games no longer stocking Flames of War!



## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Details can be found here:

http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=new&ref=204

Rather petty situation if I may say so...

EDIT: This also includes the entire Gale force 9 range and Wargames Illustrated...


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

well its sounds like battle front are cutting off there noses to spite there face, i cant see that they can afford to not trade with maelstrom games, i dont play the game but i can only see this as a step in the wrong direction for flames of war.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

bitsandkits said:


> well its sounds like battle front are cutting off there noses to spite there face, i cant see that they can afford to not trade with maelstrom games, i dont play the game but i can only see this as a step in the wrong direction for flames of war.


This is what I was thinking, Maelstrom seems to be one of the biggest distributors in the UK, provided a decent discount to the consumers seems to be the way forward. 

I buy from my local indie, and they said this through their facebook page: 



> I can confirm, and I don't think that I'm breaching any contractual terms in doing so, that all signatories to the Battlefront agreement, whether traditional bricks and mortar stores or internet traders, are asked to observe the 10% discoun...t benchmark. In certain limited circumstances, following agreement from Battlefront on a case-by-case basis, lower discounts may be offered on items. This levels the playing field between those carrying the burden of the additional overhead presented by having a Bricks and Mortar store and those that carry less overhead by maintaining only an internet presence. This is fairly common within the Wargaming industry, as it promotes the well-being of shops, which are places for people to gather and game. Different suppliers approach this in different ways, but the underlying ethos is the same. It is however a shame that matters have played out as they have, never wrestle pigs - you both get covered in muck and the pig enjoys it.


Which in itself is fair enough I guess...


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Sad for GF9, as they are nifty products. That being said, any manufacturer that want to prevent a supplier from giving a discount can go frack itself. I rant about GW a lot and the only thing that would make not only me, but my entire gaming group leave the game is if they did somthing like that.

Maelstrom games has always given me a stellar service and better prices even though I live about 2500miles from them!

Phil


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Its one of those tricky situations in business, the manufacture cant force you to sell at the RRP(that would be price fixing i guess) but at the same time they dont have to supply you, but the manufacture needs the sellers on board to promote and distribute there product, dropping a huge retailer like maelstrom cold like that, could make other indies rethink there dealings with Battlefront miniatures and not in a positive way,some may see it as an opportunity to pick up extra sales,but others may think well im not investing in stock for them to dictate to me how much i can sell the products i own for.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Well now you can all shop with Wayland instead packed sealed and kissed by yours truly! :wink:


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

bitsandkits said:


> Its one of those tricky situations in business, the manufacture cant force you to sell at the RRP(that would be price fixing i guess) but at the same time they dont have to supply you, but the manufacture needs the sellers on board to promote and distribute there product, dropping a huge retailer like maelstrom cold like that, could make other indies rethink there dealings with Battlefront miniatures and not in a positive way,some may see it as an opportunity to pick up extra sales,but others may think well im not investing in stock for them to dictate to me how much i can sell the products i own for.


Thats exactly what I thought, but according to my local indie, they actually have to sign a contractual agreement, as it says in the quote. 

So, they knew what they were getting into..


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> well its sounds like battle front are cutting off there noses to spite there face, i cant see that they can afford to not trade with maelstrom games, i dont play the game but i can only see this as a step in the wrong direction for flames of war.


Pretty much this ^, from what I can gather by reading the statements from both sides. Battle Front are being a bunch of tools to put it simply. While this is bad for the gamers, frankly, I hope Battle Front majorly looses out becase of this as its what they deserve for being such idiots.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Jezlad said:


> Well now you can all shop with Wayland instead packed sealed *and kissed* by yours truly! :wink:


Are you promising? 

And what a 3000th post


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

> I hope Battle Front majorly looses out becase of this as its what they deserve for being such idiots.


Why are they idiots?

If one company is undercutting the rest they [the rest of the retailers] will stop buying the product from battlefront because they're priced out of the market. End result? Maelstrom become the exclusive supplier and the product value has been diminished. 

Battlefront then have the issue where they're selling less.

The bottom line is they won't lose out. Would you stop buying (and playing) GW games if they stopped 1 retailer stocking their products?


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Marneus Calgar said:


> Thats exactly what I thought, but according to my local indie, they actually have to sign a contractual agreement, as it says in the quote.
> 
> So, they knew what they were getting into..


You always have to sign contracts, but once you have paid an invoice the stock belongs to you and is yours to do with as you want, but if you want to get more stock you have to tow the line,but refusal to trade with the people shifting the product directly to your public is a dangerous game, Maelstrom have agreed to carry on hosting games of flames of war which is commendable, but i can see that lasting only a short time until stocks cleared, then i can see other systems being promoted and chipping away at FOW.
Hopefully they will become stockists for DUST tactics


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Jezlad said:


> Why are they idiots?
> 
> If one company is undercutting the rest they [the rest of the retailers] will stop buying the product from battlefront because they're priced out of the market. End result? Maelstrom become the exclusive supplier and the product value has been diminished.
> 
> ...


from what i read maelstrom were not under cutting and proved it to battlefront, but they still dropped them, or did i mis read the statements ??


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

bitsandkits said:


> from what i read maelstrom were not under cutting and proved it to battlefront, but they still dropped them, or did i mis read the statements ??


Battlefront were selling it to them at a 40% discount, then Maelstrom were selling it at a maximum of 25% off at most.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Marneus Calgar said:


> Thats exactly what I thought, but according to my local indie, they actually have to sign a contractual agreement, as it says in the quote.
> 
> So, they knew what they were getting into..


In the States corporations will often try to force people or other corporations into signing contracts they find advantageous. In many cases the clauses of those contracts are unenforceable. If the owner of Maelstrom (and his solicitor) is correct, and it seems they may be, even though they signed that contract, the clauses which violate the law are likely rendered void.

Additionally, businesses are evolving and changing. It is entirely possible that contracts signed with Battlefront at different times during its growth may have different verbiage and restrictions.

@Boreas - I'm almost certain that GW has done similar things in the past. I'd have to research it to be certain. However, I recall a number of online retailers either being dropped or sued for selling GW product at lower than an agreed upon maximum discount percentage. Granted, this was probably about 10 years ago now, so I'm not positive.

Cheers,
Kreuger


edit - @ B&K - M.Calgar: It looked like their sales voucher for the offending period didn't say anything specifically about Flames of War. Seeds of War, yes; not Flames. So presumably Flames of war merchandise would be discount whatever the voucher rate listed was (15%, 16%, 17.5%, or 20%). All of which would transgress the 10% limit.

I think the 25% came after the 'trade-embargo', it looks like its a final liquidation is bonus for the customers and an F-You to Battlefront.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

meh flames of warhammerepic40k is a shit system anyway, one of the poorest excuses for a WWII system available, they should be happy they don't have to stock that pile of dog shit.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

You're always sunshine and light.

I think we should put Stella in charge of their negotiations. At least then it will be entertaining for the gaming community.


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Kreuger said:


> @Boreas - I'm almost certain that GW has done similar things in the past. I'd have to research it to be certain. However, I recall a number of online retailers either being dropped or sued for selling GW product at lower than an agreed upon maximum discount percentage. Granted, this was probably about 10 years ago now, so I'm not positive.
> 
> Cheers,
> Kreuger


As long as I can still find a retailer that can sell me at the UK or USA price (not that ridiculous Canadian price) AND at least 10%off, I'll keep buying at my current pace. Otherwise, computer game time. I'd never really quit because of lack of codex update or such, because my friends (and gaming group) wouldn't leave the hobby. But if we had to buy at canadian MSRP, we'd all leave...

BTW, Wayland is also great. I guess Jezlad kissed my two Stormraven!!!

Phil


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Kreuger said:


> You're always sunshine and light.


not my problem if the game is utter shite


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Heh, I'm picking on your attitude more than anything specific about Flames' game system.

But don't misunderstand. I usually enjoy that your attitude is sour . . . sort of like the devil/angel sitting on one's proverbial shoulder, only in your case a perennially pessimistic one. :grin:


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

If you read the doc you will see they are selling of all their leftover stock at 25%, contract rules apparently stated that you were only allowed to sell it at max 10% off so I guess Maelstrom is twisting the knife one last time before telling them to fuck off.

Here is the discount voucher code if you havent read it in the dock

BATTLEFRONT-STOCK


OUR BATTLEFRONT STOCK SALE
In the short term, we will be selling off all of our stock of Battlefront Miniatures products - Flames of War, Gale
Force Nine and Wargames Illustrated - at 25% off the recommended retail price, via a voucher code which is:
BATTLEFRONT-STOCK
To use this voucher simply register on the webstore, http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk (if you haven't already),
copy and paste the code into the appropriate field in your basket when you have selected the items you want,
press 'REDEEM', and the webstore will do the rest. You are not limited to one purchase and, indeed, we would ask
you to recommend us to your friends with this voucher!
Remember though that this voucher is intended for the webstore only - it does not apply to any of our auctions or
shop inventory items on eBay.
This voucher works from now until the end of time, or until we run out of Flames of War stock, whichever is
sooner.

I was hoping to stock up on green stuff but none are for sale and I dont need any of the other stuff.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Stella Cadente said:


> meh flames of warhammerepic40k is a shit system anyway, one of the poorest excuses for a WWII system available, they should be happy they don't have to stock that pile of dog shit.


Makes 'em money.



MadCowCrazy said:


> If you read the doc you will see they are selling of all their leftover stock at 25%, contract rules apparently stated that you were only allowed to sell it at max 10% off so I guess Maelstrom is twisting the knife one last time before telling them to fuck off.
> 
> Here is the discount voucher code if you havent read it in the dock
> 
> ...


Yeah, I guess I didn't read it thouroughly enough, but then that begs the question, what exactly did Maelstrom do? By the looks of it, nothing at all!


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

From what I read Battlefront are acting like fucktards on this one. They stated that they would have new terms. Maelstorm agreed and abide by the rules but Battlefront dropped them anyways. BUT that is also only one side of the story. In the long run Maelstorm is the loser because supply and demands dictates that once maestorm's stock runs out that other places like Waylands will begin to ramp up sales in the game.


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