# A Different Look at Sanguinus (Spoilers From Aurelian)



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

When Lorgar talks to the Daemon, and asks about one of the potential outcomes of the future, he talks about Lorgar stabbing Sanguinus.

"... In another, you were not the master of your own temper, much like many of your brothers: in a confrontation with Sanguinus, you sank a knife into his back, and were in turn butchered by Horus for your sin."

There is even a part where Sanguinus talks about Sanguinus representing everything the Emperor try to destroy. A living embodyment of an angel.

So I was wondering what people thought about Sanguinus and how Lorgar's relationship was with him. Perhaps, even the Emperor's. Maybe in a way, the Emperor despised Sanguinus for being warped. Brings up that picture where people wonder if he was the one who stabbed Sanguinus.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Wow I hate you now for making me *really *want the novella but mostly ADB.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

I don't think _Aurelian_ gives us any insight in the Lorgar-Sanguinius relationship at all really. I don't imagine we have been directly told anything particular about their relationship because there is nothing particular to tell. Sanguinius was likely cautious given Lorgar's religious fervour, but there is no reason why they wouldn't have been at least civil to one another.

As for the Emperor's view on Sanguinius' wings, I am not sure. There was certainly no issue that was made public, in fact no one seemed to publically have an issue with it at all (or at least there are no records of such). It was a sign of physical corruption, but that seemed to be it.

And for the record, the Emperor did not kill Sanguinius, don't open that can of worms again.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I think the possible outcome is very interesting. Even Angron didn't take an axe to anyone, and we all know he is the meanest and ill tempered of them all. Curze tempered after basically knowing the emperor was going to kill him, did not kill Dorn, even knowing that it was Dorn's final complaint about Curze that was the final straw to the Emperor's patience with Curze. 

But for Lorgar to have stabbed Sanguinus is quite interesting. Before this, the only account we have of primarch's being at each other's throats is during a brawl. Not a murder.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Angron struck me as someone who would not obey the Emperor unless he was breathing down his neck and would take pleasure in anything that went against the Emperor's philosophy IE. not caring about Sang. having wings hence his indifference to all the _ weird _ Primarchs like Curze, Mortarion, etc.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> I think the possible outcome is very interesting. Even Angron didn't take an axe to anyone, and we all know he is the meanest and ill tempered of them all. Curze tempered after basically knowing the emperor was going to kill him, did not kill Dorn, even knowing that it was Dorn's final complaint about Curze that was the final straw to the Emperor's patience with Curze.
> 
> But for Lorgar to have stabbed Sanguinus is quite interesting. Before this, the only account we have of primarch's being at each other's throats is during a brawl. Not a murder.


All the Primarchs knew how to deal with Angron though, and despite being a mental bastard he did not cause too many issues at the Primarch councils (that we know of). He didn't seem to care enough about the pressing matters which demanded a meeting between the Primarchs, therefore everyone just seemed to generally ignore him and vice versa.

Lorgar on the other hand was a passionate individual who strove tirelessly in an attempt to enlighten the species. He had been constantly ridiculed and mocked, even threatened by his brothers. As the passage states, in a situation where Lorgar wasn't the master of his own temper I can easily see the situation getting out of hand. The fact that it was Sanguinius isn't an issue, after all it needed to be someone. I don't think it is a veiled attempt to tell us something about the Lorgar-Sanguinius relationship. I think you've read too much into it.


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## Nashnir (Apr 3, 2010)

ckcrawford said:


> "... In another, you were not the master of your own temper, much like many of your brothers: in a confrontation with Sanguinus, you sank a knife into his back, and were in turn butchered by Horus for your sin."


Regarding the stabbing matter; Is it related to the death of Sanguinius on Horus' Battle Barge( The pic where Sanguinius lies dead with The Emperor and Horus facing each other ) ? Cause as I recall the pic had Horus with Lightning Claws and Sanguinius had a Stab wound in his chest


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Nashnir said:


> Regarding the stabbing matter; Is it related to the death of Sanguinius on Horus' Battle Barge( The pic where Sanguinius lies dead with The Emperor and Horus facing each other ) ?


No it isn't.


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## Nashnir (Apr 3, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> No it isn't.


Thanks. Don't have Aurelian and don't plan to get it since BL has confirmed that all collectors edition and anything short of novels will be later put in a relative compilation.


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## chand223 (Mar 19, 2010)

Nashnir said:


> Regarding the stabbing matter; Is it related to the death of Sanguinius on Horus' Battle Barge( The pic where Sanguinius lies dead with The Emperor and Horus facing each other ) ? Cause as I recall the pic had Horus with Lightning Claws and Sanguinius had a Stab wound in his chest


Without going into details, "The Outcast Dead" puts this to rest, as if it even needed to be.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

I still speculate that the Emperor killed Sanguinas, due to that the daemons refer to the Emperor as an it....as the Anathema. Additionally is it not indicated in the outcast dead that the Emperor (the king piece) sacrificed its warrior chess piece (sanguinas) to sac the chess the game against the enemy king piece (Horus).


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

maybe a bit too literal, but it is interesting. I doubt the Heresy Team would hit that area though. I did find it interesting how the Emperor was almost emotionless about the truth. I'm actually surprised he accepted it as truth as well, knowing that Chaos can be decietful. A lot of instances we see from the Emperor, we see him reacting out of emotion and impulse. Like his strike against Prospero, and also how he humiliated Lorgar.


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## mob16151 (Oct 20, 2011)

Lux said:


> I still speculate that the Emperor killed Sanguinas, due to that the daemons refer to the Emperor as an it....as the Anathema. Additionally is it not indicated in the outcast dead that the Emperor (the king piece) sacrificed its warrior chess piece (sanguinas) to sac the chess the game against the enemy king piece (Horus).




I thought that warrior piece was supposed to be Ferrus Mannus.


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## chand223 (Mar 19, 2010)

mob16151 said:


> I thought that warrior piece was supposed to be Ferrus Mannus.


this is the same feeling i got. Quite a ruthless moment for the Emperor (or so it seemed when i read it)


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## Jerushee (Nov 18, 2010)

I don't see how the warrior piece in reference would be Ferrus Manus, because it goes on to describe right after that by sacrificing the warrior piece he won the first round of Chess. So unless the Emperor considers the drop site massacre a victory due to sacrificing Ferrus, I don't know....maybe he purposely wanted fulgrim to become possessed, or maybe that soul storm that ripped open reality right after Ferrus died and tried to suck in Fulgrim was the Emperor's doing.

But I interpreted the warrior piece as Sanguinas, considering each piece on the board represented a different primarch in my eyes, thus I don't see Ferrus as being one of the Warrior pieces, rooks or knights.


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## mob16151 (Oct 20, 2011)

Jerushee said:


> I don't see how the warrior piece in reference would be Ferrus Manus, because it goes on to describe right after that by sacrificing the warrior piece he won the first round of Chess. So unless the Emperor considers the drop site massacre a victory due to sacrificing Ferrus, I don't know....maybe he purposely wanted fulgrim to become possessed, or maybe that soul storm that ripped open reality right after Ferrus died and tried to suck in Fulgrim was the Emperor's doing.
> 
> But I interpreted the warrior piece as Sanguinas, considering each piece on the board represented a different primarch in my eyes, thus I don't see Ferrus as being one of the Warrior pieces, rooks or knights.





I'll dig out my copy later, but the Emperor IIRC pushes his warrior piece out alone, and unsupported, And loses him, when Kai asks why he did that the Emperor responds, sometimes you have to make a sacrifice to reset the parameters of the game. Since this comes not to long after the drop site massacre, I took that to mean the Emperor wanted to use ferrus mannus's death to stir up the loyalist primarchs. Though I do get the people who think this may piiece represents Sanguinious.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Ok people, I know it states in the thread title there are spoilers, but for _Aurelian_, not _The Outcast Dead_. Please use the spoiler tags for that.


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