# natural enemies.



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

first off sorry i not been around much, i not been too well so been concentrating on that as well as a few other personal issues.

anyway i got to thinking the other day who are the Loyalists enemies among the Chaos marines.

for example: Ultramirines - Word Bearers, Blood Angels - Black Leigon, what would the others be, here's what i think.

Ultramarines - word Bearers 

by dint of thier humiliation at the hands of the emperor and Gulliman and the Word Bearers devastating attack on Calth amongst others.

Blood Angels - Black Leigon

i think thats pretty obvious, Horus killed Sanguinus.

Iron Hands - Emperors Children

Fulgrim Killed Manus and almost devastated thier leigon into extinction.

Salamanders - World Eaters

again they were almost blasted into extinciton by the World Eaters at Istvaan. I figure like the Iron Hands that kind of Eminty is not actually going to go away.

Imperial Fists - Iron Warriors

that more or less speaks for itself, and the Iron Cage incident didn't exactly help matters much either.

Raven Guard - Night Lords

not sure why but i guess seeing as both Corax and Kurze used similiar tactics it would be a case of who was better and at what, although Istvaan again didn't actually help matters much.

Space Wolves - Thousand Sons 

That pretty much speaks for itself, whenever these two clash nothing good can come of it.

thats as far as i got as i am not sure about the others yet but i was wondering what you guys thought.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Ive been thinking about this as well, surely you have a good point about BA vs BL, but I dont think neither thinks to themselves "Oh we need to find the other and destroy him" more than any traitors. Its not like SW vs TS or UM vs WB cause they surely hate each other with a vengence.

IH vs. EC and IF vs. IW I can buy. RG vs NL I think is a bit weak as well.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

yeah Fork i think that in the grand scheme of things the Night Lords seemed to not be on friendly relations with anyone really, i just plonked for that becasue of what i had read in First Heretic really still i am interested in what others think


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## grimdarkness (Apr 19, 2010)

Night Lords and Dark Angels have it in for each other a bit. Their primarchs were fairly close before the heresy and they had a fairly large bust up during it. That being said the DA seem too occupied with catching the fallen these days to give it much thought.


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Fists ought to hate the Night Lords. Kurze jumped Dorn and killed a number of Fist huscarls although I'm not sure if these grievances would have been enough to make the grudge last through the centuries. Ultramarines should probably dislike Fulgrim and his legion for "killing" their primarch.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Necron hate Eldar, Eldar hate Necron. 

Tau hate Ork, Ork hate Tau. Although I will admit I love this duo more then any other simply because it always makes for an interesting game since they're polar opposites of each other in every conceivable way.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

The Tau hate capitalism and democracy.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

hmmm Tau sound like 40ks soviets then


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Eldar - Necrons and Dark Eldar
Space Wolves - Thousand Sons
Imperial Fists - Iron Warriors
Ork - Tau
Ultramarines - Word Bearers

Those are the few that I can think of right now.

EDIT: Damn, Ninja'd by eight posts. Don't know how that happened. .


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## oblique (Mar 10, 2011)

grimdarkness said:


> Night Lords and Dark Angels have it in for each other a bit. Their primarchs were fairly close before the heresy and they had a fairly large bust up during it. That being said the DA seem too occupied with catching the fallen these days to give it much thought.


Do you have a source for this? I'm curious about the relationship between Jonson and Curze.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

ThatOtherGuy said:


> The Tau hate capitalism and democracy.


Name 1 40k race that embraces democracy

:biggrin::biggrin:


Silly obvious one no mentions Grey knights hates daemons


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## Hellhammer (May 1, 2011)

The Imperium hates the Tau because they stole all of the apostrophes.


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## MuSigma (Jul 8, 2010)

The Blood Ravens are obviously the best chapter because they have the most enemies.
The have beat Khorne, Nurgle, Ahriman and his cabal of 1000 sons, the Orcs, the Black Legion, the Alpha Legion, the Tyranids, the traitor Imperial Guard and also the Eldar, although Captain Angelos is so brilliant that the Eldar Farseer who is supposed to kill him and his Chapter to get her craftworld planets back has fallen in love with him and he is best friends with the Harlequin.

Even with a chapter loosing recruiting worlds and at low strength, this was all done with one front line company and a reserve company.
Now the Chapter Master has fallen to chaos and the honor guard are compromised, what next for the Blood Ravens.

A very brave plot move - has a Chapter Master ever fallen to chaos before.

I was also going to suggest that for super chapters who are always proving their worthiness, why not give them a sort of super-chapter/mini-legion status and let them recruit up to 2000-10000 as a reward for proving the loyalty. As their Chapter Master has fallen to chaos - it just goes to show that even a super chapter like the Blood Ravens cant be trusted with a legion.

Then I also realised the Blood Ravens are always fighting at mere company level, an under strength one at that, so they dont need a legion.

As for the OP - well the Blood Ravens must win easily - the have the most hated rivals of anyone in the whole Imperium.

As a chapter of an unknown primarch, who ever he is, he must be so proud of his superb progeny.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

MuSigma said:


> A very brave plot move - has a Chapter Master ever fallen to chaos before.


Well Huron Blackheart instantly springs to mind...


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

ah who can forget Huron Blackheart, the meanest SOB to ever sail the warp ways lol yeah he is pretty cool and seeing him in some novels lateley just reminds me how this guy really knows how to rule the corsairs.

can't remember what book it was but it was a short story where a corsair psyker was about to betray him and ended up in a chaos dreadnaught for the rest of his life while blackheart knew that he was about to be betrayed, think i realised how ruthless that man was there and then.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

MuSigma said:


> Then I also realised the Blood Ravens are always fighting at mere company level, an under strength one at that, so they dont need a legion.


So... Since when has 5 companies been at "mere company level"?


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

oblique said:


> Do you have a source for this? I'm curious about the relationship between Jonson and Curze.


In the anthology _Age of Darkness_, there is a short story by ADB called _Savage Weapons_ about a dual between Curze and the Lion. The Lion felt expescially betrayed since he felt the closets to Curze for both having grown up in wild with no one to turn to.


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## Zakath (Feb 23, 2011)

> Name 1 40k race that embraces democracy


I guess none, but I guess at least some Eldar craftworlds or Exodite planets live as democratic societies - I just think it suits their style  Also, though not a race, Alpha Legion is democratic! 

On topic, weren't Blood Angels and World Eaters rivals pre-Heresy? Their relationship has of course changed somewhat


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

errr - Khorne / Slaanesh
Nurgle / Tzeentch

pretty obvious I'd have thought


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## oblique (Mar 10, 2011)

forkmaster said:


> In the anthology _Age of Darkness_, there is a short story by ADB called _Savage Weapons_ about a dual between Curze and the Lion. The Lion felt expescially betrayed since he felt the closets to Curze for both having grown up in wild with no one to turn to.


Ahh, excellent. Haven't gotten my copy in the mail yet! Thank you.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

More importantly, which races could be best friends if they stopped throttling each other once in awhile?


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

if they weren't so against each other the eldar and imperium i guess, i know they helped out cadia during the 13th blacdk crusade but if they got thier heads together then they might realise they could work together instead of being at arms length all the time.


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## Yru0 (May 9, 2011)

Necrons and Tyranids as best buds i can believe, heck I don't even know if they've fought fluff-wise yet!


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Yru0 said:


> Necrons and Tyranids as best buds i can believe, heck I don't even know if they've fought fluff-wise yet!


Quite a few times, actually. The Necrons and Tyranids actually are quite serious enemies, mainly because they're competing for all the life in the universe. 

Nids want all the meat that the Necrons evaporate.

Necrons want all the meat that the Tyranids snarf down.

Nids have no use for Necron metal and so are pointless to fight.

Nids have no delicious souls for the Necrons and so are pointless to fight.

There was a story of a Tau planet being invaded heavily by Tyranids, only to have the Necrons on the nearby moon spot them and go "OH HELL NAW" then proceed to obliterate the Tyranids. The Tau foolishly hail the Necrons as heroes, which they might admittedly enjoy for a few minutes before they went to then kill all of them too. 

The Necrons and Tyranids see each other as wolves that slip in to devour the cattle that they consider rightfully their own. Ergo they hate the hell out of each other.


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## Angelis Mortis (Mar 7, 2011)

Blood Angels vs Khorne Daemons Sanguinis broke the back of the Bloodthirster at he Imperial Palace after being crippled by said daemon earlier
Dark Angels vs Inquisition The secret of the fallen 
Cadian vii vs Black Legion 
Eldar vs Slaanesh
Dark Eldar vs Tau
Orks vs Tyranids
Dark Angels vs Space Wolves 
Ultramarines vs Tyranids
Salamanders vs Dragon Warriors

the few i can think of


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

What about White Scars and the Dark Eldar. After all they caused their primarch to be sucked into the webway.

Also others I think of include:

Steel Legion vs Orks (armageddon)
Tau versus Dark Eldar (After Urien Rakarth)
Ultramarines vs Emperors Children (caused death of their primarch)
Orks vs Tyrandis (Octavius-which still rages on)
Commissars vs everything else

Sooty vs Sweep for best puppet mascot


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## Hammer49 (Feb 12, 2011)

Imperial Guard Valhallans v Orks


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

C'Tan Chimera said:


> More importantly, which races could be best friends if they stopped throttling each other once in awhile?


none. their all going to hack each other to death in the end. each race hates all the other races (prehaps with the exception of the tau) its just they hate some more than others.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

in the grand scheme of things i wouldn't want to piss the necrons off....but the orks are so bloody minded they might be the last ones standing


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

Necrons hate all the creations of the old ones. So that means Eldar (+dark eldar), Orks and Jokaero. Also they hate chaos as well so CD and CSM.

I don't think it's as clear cut for Necrons and the Imperium as the codex heavily implies that the imperium is being subverted by the c'tan (eg Void Dragon and Pariahs).


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## Chaplain Garrus (May 15, 2011)

Salamanders I believe have 2 enemies of significance here.

Dragon Warriors do appear in the novels but they are rigorously briefed on the tactics and elimination of Dark Eldar.

Primarch Vulkan grew through his youth in a village that was repeatedly attacked by Dark Eldar or as the chapter knows them, the "Dusk Wraiths". So despite involvement of the dragon warriors in the novels, the chapter has had a hatred for Dark Eldar since the founding pretty much.


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