# Tactics for Banshees



## pinned (Dec 7, 2008)

i have a 1000points of eldar and im thinking of what to get next(im a beginner) 

i want to get like 10 banshees in a WS but my friend who's been playing warhammer for like 5 years now said they suck because the moment they get out of their transport their shot to bits ( and i still dont believe him)

Is their any tactics with Banshees in a WS i should know about to keep them alive so they can get to combat.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Banshees are the perfect MEQ killer - if you have a unit of just 5, then they can easily hold up a Marine squad, and kill them over a turn or two (preferably carry on in your opponents, and finish them off in that phase), ready to attack in your turn.

If you have a Wave Serpent, it's a good transport, but with Running, and Fleet, you aren't going to need to use the Transport. The Transport could be bought however - use it as a large heavy weapon platform, going for small support squads, like Devestators. However, you'd be much better taking a Wraithlord than spending points on a Wave Serpent, and giving it a Starcannon.


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Banshee's are one of those Risk vs Reward type units, much like the Swooping Hawks (although more people don't prefere these guys, but that's a different topic). They have amazing weapons, not bad stats (eldar's weakness) and have some sick wargear. While being good in combat, getting there is one of the main issues. They have not too good saves, which I bet you'll see plenty of ap4- weapons, not too good. A transport is probably the best option for them if you really want them to live. If you don't like to play mech Eldar (much like me), then move/fleet into cover or such until they can strike.

I personally use these girls with Yriel, a very nasty combo. An excellent combo with them however is using a Farseer with the power Doom. With doom, you have like 5+ power weapons charging and if cast right, they can reroll to would. And since they have Eldar equivelent Toughness, it can come really useful. 

But for 1000 points, I wouldn't hold too much on their shoulders. They are good, but they're not invicible units. As in don't send them into battle, and depend on them to kill the majority of the enemy, because I doubt they'll survive for that long. Although, they are one of the better support units in the Eldar army, especially a close combat themed army.

I also prefere to put them with a kickass Autarch, if you don't feel like spending 150+ points for Yriel. Maybe a one with a power weapon, mandiblaster (he already has a high initiative, so there's no point in giving him a banshee mask) and possibly a fusion gun, just for good measures. But if you want my vote for a good HQ support (if you want one anyways), it probably would have to be the Farseer with Doom. I mean seriously, what's better then power weapons, rereollable to wound?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

_I mean seriously, what's better then power weapons, rereollable to wound?_

A demolisher cannon.

I agree with Steel Nathan - I tend to find I have more trouble with a smallish unit with a tooled up Exarch (not Autarch at this level), and a Farseer 'dooming' them. I tend to turn every rapid fire weapon I can on them because of that.


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## Broken (Dec 7, 2008)

Banshees easily have the potential to be an almost unmatched melee unit in a game of 40k. However, their mediocre Armour Save tends to let them down and they can be wiped out by concentrated Bolter fire. Running and using Fleet of Foot to get into cover may seem like the best solution but doing this won't get the unit much further than approximately 12", sometimes more or less depending on your recent affairs with the Dice Gods. Because of this I prefer to get them into combat as soon as possible with a transport; either a Wave Serpent or Falcon, depending on how many points you want to spend and the size of the squad. Choosing a vehicle over hiding in cover also adds some mobile firepower to your force. Also, once the Banshees have consolidated or are just moving towards their next victims the transport can provide supporting fire and also block the LoS so the close-combat specialists can't be shot at.

The Exarch of the Howling Banshees has some great options available to enhance her prowess when in combat. The Execution can be very useful when facing tougher opponents such as Space Marines as their Toughness is usually relatively high. Unfortunately, there will only be an opponent that the Exarch will be able to defeat through Instant Death in the rarest of circumstances so this may not always be the best choice.
I think Mirror Swords a good choice as they double the amount of attacks the female warrior has and also prevents armour saves from being taken. These weapons are great against large units such as Hormagaunts and Ork Boyz as it whittles them down more efficiently.
I think the Triskele is pretty bad, especially compared to the other options, and I've never actually seen anyone use a list with one. The low AP and several shots may be a positive thing but the low Strength results in this weapon going to waste in my opinion. Also, the short range doesn't make much of an impact when the unit's mounted in a vehicle.

War Shout can be a great power against the low Morale units such as Orkz and Imperial Guard as there's a relatively high chance they'll flee and then your Banshees can run them down. Alternatively, this could also be used against units with high Leadership that are good in combat, such as Assault Squads, as they're likely to pass their test but will then be fighting with a Weapon Skill of 1 and are going to be hard-pressed just to get a couple of hits.


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Broken said:


> The Exarch of the Howling Banshees has some great options available to enhance her prowess when in combat. The Execution can be very useful when facing tougher opponents such as Space Marines as their Toughness is usually relatively high...


Know what? After all that, I've never mentioned the Exarch as well...


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## pinned (Dec 7, 2008)

thanks for the tips but Broken said that a wave serpent can block line of sight- can skimmers block line of sight because i dont believe they can from my experiences CORRECT me if im wrong.


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

pinned said:


> thanks for the tips but Broken said that a wave serpent can block line of sight- can skimmers block line of sight because i dont believe they can from my experiences CORRECT me if im wrong.


I'm pretty sure they do. When they finish moving, they count as landing on the ground after movement (or at least that's what I think anyways). And by landing on the ground, they block line of sight. Don't forget, it's true line of sight too. If you have a squad of marine or whatever on some sort of platform, and can see over the Serpent to a different squad, it's legal. But otherwise, they block LoS against most troops on the ground. 

And of course, if it's destroyed, it block LoS. If it explodes, it does not . 

That's the basics of it anyways.


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## killmaimburn (Mar 19, 2008)

5th edition, everything is TLOS, therefore ANY and ALL models can and usually will block enough line of sight to at least provide a cover save.

Unit type does not matter, skimmers are assumed to be wherever theire model is. If you use high transparent flying bases, your own LOS will be clear as will your opponents. If they are just sitting flat on the ground, they can block LOS better.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

A full unit of ten in a Serpent is one way of getting them close, but I think a Falcon would work better. You can only fit six Banshees inside, but that Falcon won't go down easily. Move it 24" toward the enemy so you'll get a 4+ cover save and stay inside until your next turn. If you've taken holo-fields it's unlike that your enemy will be able to bring you down easily.


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> A full unit of ten in a Serpent is one way of getting them close, but I think a Falcon would work better. You can only fit six Banshees inside, but that Falcon won't go down easily. Move it 24" toward the enemy so you'll get a 4+ cover save and stay inside until your next turn. If you've taken holo-fields it's unlike that your enemy will be able to bring you down easily.



There's no difference from the Falcon to the Wave Serpent Katie. You can fit in more models, and it's cheaper too. The only main difference is that the Falcon has a pulse laser, and it can have holfields, while Serpents can not (but Serpents has a free forceshield. Bonus!) 

But for 1000 pts, 6 models is pretty good though. A Falcon would be better in that case, but if you plan to have a 10 man unit, the Wave Serpent is your best friends .


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## pinned (Dec 7, 2008)

Thanks for all the help.

Just one last question- if i move 24" or whatever and then wait till next turn then take out my banshees would they be able to move and charge or does coming out of a transport take away your whole movement phase?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

pinned said:


> Thanks for all the help.
> 
> Just one last question- if i move 24" or whatever and then wait till next turn then take out my banshees would they be able to move and charge or does coming out of a transport take away your whole movement phase?


As long as the transport hasn't moved you're able to disembark, move, run and then assault in the same turn (since Banshees have Fleet).


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Clever use of cover has, in my experience, been the easier way to get Banshees into combat. Due to how transports work in the game in general, it's going to come down to whether or not the Wave Serpent survives a round of likely concentrated shooting as to whether or not you're able to deliver your assault with any degree of reliability. If the Wave Serpent gets shot down while it sits for a turn to let the Banshees out (or, if the Banshees get out and they're not in cover-- remember, the Wave Serpent doesn't provide it since it's a skimmer), you're going to get yourself shot. Heavy bolters will still chew up the Banshees like cheap gum, but a surprising number of them will live through it if they're advancing through cover. Experience has shown that's the less risky and more reliable way to get 'em there.

Delivering the Banshees, however, is less of an issue if you plan to use them not as immediate shock troops, but as something to break your opponent's back once you've committed other units to close combat. Dire Avengers aren't going to win a combat on their own against a dedicated assault squad, but if they hold the opponent in place for a turn, you can follow up with the Banshees and cut what's left down. 

Keep in mind that if your opponent spends time shooting the banshees before they get into combat, they're leaving other units that they probably need to be dealing with more untouched. A squad of Banshees makes an excellent distraction while your Fire Dragons advance. A surprising number of people think, "Oh, well, the Fire Dragons aren't in range this turn, so I'll deal with them later..." because they're not running forward screaming with swords waving. The tendency for people is to target dedicated assault units that are advancing first in favor of targeting advancing units that are actually a serious problem at range.

Banshees are also a fun means of breaking up static firing positions. Again, it involves clever use of cover, but it's not hard to get them across the board to hop into that building that three heavy weapons squads are sheltering in, and subsequently cut them to bloody ribbons. 

Don't be baited into sending the Banshees exclusively at armored targets, either-- just because they have power swords doesn't mean that they're bad at fighting things like guardsmen, gaunts, or other Eldar. They put out a pretty good volume of attacks, after all. Someone who's thinking about things is going to try to feed you a Terminator Squad to lure the Banshees out into the open. Sure, you'll probably kill the Terminators (which nets you all of about 250 points' worth of casualties tops) but you're left with your pants down out in the open, usually in a position where the Banshees are isolated from the rest of the army. A 10-strong unit of Banshees getting cut down by a Tactical Squad waiting for them to take the bait like that isn't a good trade.

While I'm not normally one to push combinations of units in a single given way, consider keeping a Farseer near the Banshees so they can cast Doom on whatever the Banshees are charging, and Fortune on them as they advance through cover. It makes the squad absurdly more dangerous; and no other Aspect really benefits as greatly from those particular powers as the Banshees do. 

Depending on taste, you can also use a squad of Banshees as a Jain Zar delivery system. They're fearless while she's around, so they can take the bullets as Jain Zar runs across the table. If all the Banshees get shot but Jain Zar gets there, that's fine... she's perfectly capable of taking a flank all by herself in close combat in most cases.


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## Justicar Auarilius (Nov 29, 2008)

Honestly if you havent bought them yet, id get a squad of scorpions, better strength attacks and ive seen them hold up to marines way better than Howling Banshees


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

If you really want Banshees you could always do what I do and instead of buying a transports spend the points on a storm guardian meat sheild. I know that the Storm guardians are usually derided and considered a really crap option especially when compared to the Aspect warriors but if you give them Conceal and stick them ahead of your Banshees they are as good as a force field and occasionally kill things or at least add weight to the Banshee attack. All this with the added bonus of being as fast as anything else in the army and they can have 2 fusion guns.


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## Vashtek (Nov 2, 2007)

Farseer + banshees + wave serpent is the best option I've seen. Falcons are fine too but I really like the seer. Running banshees around on foot is asking for them to be shot up. 

You have to be really careful (as with other eldar units) only to disembark if you really need to. A lot of the time it's best to stay in the transport and deploy later on in the game when you can take objectives, finish off squads and avoid getting shot up in return.

I'm pretty sure that 'seers can now make the transport reroll failed cover saves too (another stealth change from 4th to 5th).


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

> I'm pretty sure they do. When they finish moving, they count as landing on the ground after movement (or at least that's what I think anyways).


Re-read the Moving Skimmers rules on pg. 71. The model must be set down on the table (not hovering over any terrain) but still must be placed on its flying base. it's not "landed" at the end of each movement phase.

Skimmers block TLOS just like everything else does. You have to check if you can see over/under it (while it is left on its flying stand).

BOT

Just use a Wave Serpent or Falcon with Star Engines and move it up to 36" in your 1st turn. 2nd turn get out and move/run/assault your target unit.....easy! 

With no "entangled" rules in 5th edition there's not much downside to getting your ride blown up, just make sure you don't get too close so the enemy can block your access point. 5th ed. still makes it hard for them to comletly stop you from dismebarking though, but if they cover the hatch, the vehicle has to move before you can disembark, making the girls unable to assault from transport.


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## pinned (Dec 7, 2008)

thanks for the help.
one last thing is, should i take 10 banshees in a wave serpent or is that over kill.

and also does turning the wave serpent count as moving (so u dont have to have your rear armor exposed while you are waiting til next turn for your banshees to hop out and charge)


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## Hashulaman (Apr 9, 2008)

I thought banshees have fleet, if you feel lucky you can get out of the transport run and then assault. If you don't get int range though, you are pretty much screwed.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

You cant assualt out of a vehicle though.

EDIT: just realised you can if the vehicle doesn't move, my bad.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Justicar Auarilius said:


> Honestly if you havent bought them yet, id get a squad of scorpions, better strength attacks and ive seen them hold up to marines way better than Howling Banshees


I prefer scorpions as well. A decent-sized unit of scorps can do a load of damage to just about anything. Give them fortune and doom their opponents if you like. They have more attacks and better strength than banshees, as well as better armour. 

You just cannot send Banshees against orks. Scorps, you can.


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## Hashulaman (Apr 9, 2008)

I see Banshees wailing into IG and Tau though. It would be hard to get them in range while being shot at, fortune would help a bit.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

So what? Anything can go through IG and Tau. It's still better to do more wounds and get better saves.

Banshees get eaten by kroot if you go against Tau (assuming they don't get shot). Scorps do not.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

In my opinion there is a use for both Banshees and Scorpions; Scorpions are definitely better against Orks other massed units, but Banshees are capable of going toe to toe with CC monsters and coming out on top. It depends who you are going to face which you should take.


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## Broken (Dec 7, 2008)

_Clever use of cover has, in my experience, been the easier way to get Banshees into combat._
In a game lower than 1000pts I would agree with you as a vehicle consumes too many points, on top of some Aspect Warriors. However, in larger games I think taking a Falcon or Wave Serpent is worth it because of the fire support it provides, as they have access to some of the best weaponry available, such as a Starcannon or Bright Lance. Also, it can provide cover when landed and let the Banshees avoid being shot at before charging.
You can always finish the movement of your transport near some terrain, so that if the Banshees do have to dismount then they have somewhere to shelter from incoming fire.

_Due to how transports work in the game in general, it's going to come down to whether or not the Wave Serpent survives a round of likely concentrated shooting as to whether or not you're able to deliver your assault with any degree of reliability._
To be fair, the Wave Serpent has reasonable front and side armour and it's going to take at least a Meltagun to destroy the vehicle. The other main damage result would be preventing the vehicle from moving, as this postpones the deliverance of the Banshees and leaves the Serpent open to another round of shooting. Being unable to shoot isn't a major loss as I view this second in priority compared to transporting the close-combat specialists. Wrecked and Immoblised are still a loss but they also have their advantages in that they can be used as cover by the Banshees who can then engage the enemy if they've moved far enough.

_Delivering the Banshees, however, is less of an issue if you plan to use them not as immediate shock troops, but as something to break your opponent's back once you've committed other units to close combat._
I think Banshees can be very effective at breaking down the opponent's flank, not the main force however as they're not usually resilient enough to complete such a task. With an effective Exarch and great weaponry these female warriors can eliminate at least a couple of units without suffering losses, though this depends on the army you're facing.

_A squad of Banshees makes an excellent distraction while your Fire Dragons advance._
I'd say that a more resilient unit such as Striking Scorpions are better for this as they're less likely to suffer casualties and will still draw the attention of your opponent, in most cases. Obviously, they're going to be effective in combat with their powerful weapons and tough armour.

_Banshees are also a fun means of breaking up static firing positions._
Once again I can think of another unit that would be more appropriately suited to the task; Swooping Hawks. They can Deep Strike and so the enemy won't have a chance to shoot them beforehand and with the use of a Sunrifle they can pin them before charging or they could instead use a Grenade Pack.

_Don't be baited into sending the Banshees exclusively at armored targets, either-- just because they have power swords doesn't mean that they're bad at fighting things like *guardsmen, gaunts, or other Eldar.*_
Banshees seem to be more suited to dealing with this kind of enemy as opposed to Terminators or Obliterators as there are much tougher units that can deal with heavily armoured units, such as Scorpions and Dark Reapers, especially considering the mentioned enemies have Invulnerable Saves. With a large number of attacks and the ability to ignore Armour Saves large units can be cut down swiftly with little room for casualties.


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