# Versus Tau Skimmers



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

*Versus: Week Eighteen​*
Well, with 5th on the way I figured I'd post a Versus that's nasty before and after the changeover.

Tau skimmers are almost as hated as their Eldar cousins...they're heavily armed and have a wide array of gadgets to make them more effective in a variety of situations.

In 4th, the Multitracker (allowing hem to fire as Fast vehicles) was the must have piece of gear, allowing the hover-tanks to move 7-12" and still fire, earning them the coveted 'skimmers moving fast' protection.

Well, in 5th, skimmers only gain an advantage when moving *over* 12" meaning that Tau skimmers (which are not Fast) can no longer benefit...

However, in 5th rather than always counting as glances, the benefit for skimmers moving fast is the same as obscured vehicles, a 4+ cover save.

Suddenly the Disruption Pod becomes the new must-have item. The Disruption Pod treats the vehicle as Obscured from any attacks at a range of 12" or further. Before this was a waste of points since obscured only gave a 50% chance of converting a penn into a glance, and a multitracker-equipped skimmer could always get glances

So, from now on, expect every Tau tank and transport to come equipped with a 4+ cover save against all your long-ranged attacks...as well as a Multi-Tracker that'll allow it to move at full speed and fire everything while imperial tanks can't even fire both their sponsons on the move.

So...How are you going to deal with Tau Skimmers in 5th?
How do you deal with them now?


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Now? Fire the hell out of them with long ranged weapons. Plain and simple. 

On 5th ed? Well.... good question. Well to me, a good way would actually be to charge them(I know I know... "HOW??"... I'm still trying to figure that out.)
Yes, charging could do(except that the bastards have to hit them on 6's, JOY!). But honestly, it be a pain to waste all of the lascannons/missle launchers/whatever at them and either a) rolling a 1 to hit b) failing to glace or c) passing the cover save ( or only getting a crew shaken/crew stunned) 

But when you assault them( seeing that you have plenty of power fists, chain fists, rend........:angry:..., then let the fire works hit. Once you get past those annoying 6+ to hit, then watch the magic  

That's my theory anyway.... not a good one but I'm going to try it 
*orders 3 squads of termies for Blood Angels*


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

Get within 12' and use high str weapons would probably work quite well.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Wait til sixth edition.

Otherwise, just ignore them and destroy the rest of the army. They can't hold objectives.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Don't forget, Waffles, Troops squads embarked on transports *can* hold objectives...so now you've got a pack of Fire Warriors in an unsinkable Devilfish parked on the objective. Not so easy to ignore.

Getting close is the ideal solution, but when it can move a full 12" and still fire its weapons, it becomes easier said than done. (especially if it;s a hammerhead with a railgun or ion cannon)

However, if it's any consolation, this will put a damper on Fish of Fury tactics
The idea of FOF is to park the devilfish within inches of your squad, deploy the FWs from the rear (Juuuuuust inside their Rapid Fire range) and use the devilfish to block assaults so the warriors can unload with their pulse rifles (since skimmers don't block LOS). Normal troops cannot assault around the devilfish because it's just too big. Then next turn you load up and move out to a different area. Shooting the tank never did much good because of the skimmers moving fast rule.

Now, however, to pull off a FOF move, you've got to put the devilfish too close for its disruption pod to work...so while you cannot assault his FWs right off, you can nuke their transport and either try for a charge across the wreck, or just take solace in the fact that next turn they're buggered.

I would expect to see FOF tactics abandoned in favor of semi-static firelines accompanied by 'warfish' (heavily armed devislfish with targeting arrays). Thanks to the new Dedicated Transport rules, you can use those fish to ferry other models around the board if need be, then on the last couple turns, expect to see the transports come home, load up Fire Warriors and make a balls-out break for objectives.


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

I would mostly say Melta weaponry and Deep striking Terms with Chain/Power fists, because its happens all too often that I shoot at the Tau skimmers with heavy weapons and it does next to nothing to it and I probably could have used the shot somewhere else. So mostly be patient and stay away from them until the opportune moment presents itself.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

as my death guard need to be within 12 inches to be at their best, it doesn't do anything for the tau player but waste points. I deal with it as any source of incoming fire, take cover, advance through cover and annihilate the targets that present themselves, one at a time.


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## Minion_1981 (Dec 20, 2007)

I read the rules but I might be forgetting some things, Do you still need 6's to hit skimmers in CC, I don't remember reading that, I read thou that if you move a Vehicle over 6 inches you need 6's to hit it like ground vehicles, so from what I gathered is that monoliths will at most need 4+ to hit, any confirmation on that? And I was wondering if Skimmers landed each time they move, because in the rules it says they have to take dangerous terrain tests now when the start or stop over difficult terrain, if that was in the old rules, I apologize 

Tim


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## Saint7515 (Apr 30, 2008)

Take my chances with Assault Marines and Melta bombs. Need 6's to hit, but somethings gonna/should blow if half the squad gets there.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

All vehicles are the same to hit in CC now (except Walkers, who use their WS, and are still 6+ against grenades). Stationary: Auto-hit, 6" or less 4+, More than 6" 6+, no matter if it's a skimmer or a ground tank.

And yes, Skimmers land now at the end of their move, so they have to take a DT test if you park them on difficult terrain. But only for *ending* their move there. They don;t have to roll again to move off of it.


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## Minion_1981 (Dec 20, 2007)

So if they have to ground now at the end of the move, is FoF worthless then since the Skimmer is on the ground?


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Galahad said:


> All vehicles are the same to hit in CC now (except Walkers, who use their WS, and are still 6+ against grenades). Stationary: Auto-hit, 6" or less 4+, More than 6" 6+, no matter if it's a skimmer or a ground tank.
> 
> And yes, Skimmers land now at the end of their move, so they have to take a DT test if you park them on difficult terrain. But only for *ending* their move there. They don;t have to roll again to move off of it.


that makes sense, the skimmer would have already crushed whatever it landed on, similar to what happens when you step on apatch of grass, most stays down for a while.


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Galahad said:


> All vehicles are the same to hit in CC now (except Walkers, who use their WS, and are still 6+ against grenades). Stationary: Auto-hit, 6" or less 4+, More than 6" 6+, no matter if it's a skimmer or a ground tank.
> 
> And yes, Skimmers land now at the end of their move, so they have to take a DT test if you park them on difficult terrain. But only for *ending* their move there. They don;t have to roll again to move off of it.


:laugh: well then bring out the assault tank killing units. :crazy:. The only problem is that your opponent would have to be an idiot to NOT move them, seeing that they live on speed and movement( Eldar would be the same, yet different story at the same time seeing that they're fast vehicles)But if you can get them to stop somewhere then it be the perfect time to mess them up in combat. :wink:


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## Kronus (Mar 1, 2008)

Meltaguns would be an effective way of mowing them down. Especially if they are deep-striked with preferably 2 per squad. New DS rules aren’t so bad so you can afford to be a bit more risky. At 12" the decoy launchers won't work and with ap1 weapons if you can roll 4+ your very likely to penetrate (only HH has av 13 on front), this is almost guaranteed if your within 6 inchs. To be honest they are not really any harder then they were in 4th Edition, though decoy launchers does antiquate the traditional long range anti tank approach.

Considering how transports are safer, rhino's better, drop pods likely to become more common and DSing safer don't be scared to get up close and personnal


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

After checking the rules again, Minion was right. If you start OR end your move in terrain you make a DT check for skimmers, so even taking off provokes a check.

But as for whether or not they block LOS...that's not actually in the rules, as far as I can tell.

As I understand it, rather than the nice simple system we have now, they've decided to go with the whole "True LOS" which is at both intrinsically complex, while at the same time, having virtually no solid rules attached to it.

I can't find anywhere in the 5th ed main book where it says if vehicles block LOS one way or the other.

My guess is, if the model's eye view is blocked by the vehicle then it blocks LOS, and if you can see the enemy over, under, around or through the vehicle, then it probably gets a 4+ cover save. So unless Tau players start investing in 6" high flight stands, chances are, FOF is going out the window in 5th.

Also, in 5th, all assault hits against vehicles are assigned to rear armour, so yeah, assaulting looks like the way to go.

Chances are, in 5th Tau players will start keeping their skimmers far back and exploiting their speed for last second grabs.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

For 4th. I use anything with strength 7 or more to stun or immoblise them then get DC to jump over them and rend the rear armour. for 5th I see no difference in my tactics ability.... that works with every vehicle I've encountered. thing with rending in this tactic is how has it changed exactly??


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Rending in 5th gets you an automatic AP2 roll on roll of 6 to wound (not to hit), and against vehicles, a penetration roll of 6 nets you an additional d3. So S4 rending maxes out at 13, with the average rend being 11 or 12 (DC have furious charge, so add 1 to those numbers), but since assault hits go to rear armor, you don;t need much.

As for pummeling them with ranged attacks, just bear in mind they've got a 50/50 chance of negating your hits *after* penetration is rolled. (If the shot comes from more than 12" away)

As a BA player, I would suggest attack bikes and other forms of Mobile Melta. You usually have to get in super close with those guns anyhow, so the disruption field won;t matter to your double-melta VAS


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

I would go for the swarm of scarabs with disruptor fields. It works in 4th and will still work in 5th despite the glance rules changing somewhat. 40 attacks on the charge and something has still got to give, no one can be that unlucky with dice rolls. 

If you immobolise the skimmer does it only crash if it was moving in its last turn or does it crash regardless ?

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Galahad said:


> Rending in 5th gets you an automatic AP2 roll on roll of 6 to wound (not to hit), and against vehicles, a penetration roll of 6 nets you an additional d3. So S4 rending maxes out at 13, with the average rend being 11 or 12 (DC have furious charge, so add 1 to those numbers), but since assault hits go to rear armor, you don;t need much.


nice I won't have to change my tactics then.... hitting the rear armour the whole time will make tank assaulting way easier.... Melta idea I'd say is best though.... Even the 12" thing will be useless against them as they are best short ranged.....


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

With all this talk of close-combat I think Flechette Dischargers might be a bit more popular on Tau vehicles in 5th. At 10pts and with the 6 to hit skimmers they currently seem useless, there are plenty of other better options. However in 5th, with close-combat v vehicles more useful, and to a lesser degree the fact hordes will rule, flechette dischargers suddenly seem useful. You ask what they do? All models attacking the skimmer in close-combat take a wound on 4+, before attacking. This could make many of your tactics a bit more risky.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

thomas2 said:


> With all this talk of close-combat I think Flechette Dischargers might be a bit more popular on Tau vehicles in 5th. At 10pts and with the 6 to hit skimmers they currently seem useless, there are plenty of other better options. However in 5th, with close-combat v vehicles more useful, and to a lesser degree the fact hordes will rule, flechette dischargers suddenly seem useful. You ask what they do? All models attacking the skimmer in close-combat take a wound on 4+, before attacking. This could make many of your tactics a bit more risky.


True but with a 3+ armour save and feel no pain i'm pretty confident attacking them in CC with my DC. They took out a defiler in CC.... they've always done well


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Melta-armed attack bikes and bike squads, as was suggested higher up, Fast Close Combat troops (Marine Assault Sq.) with Power Fist, Deepstriking Stormtroopers/Terminators/Pink Horrors, etc to get a shot at the rear armour or, if you can get them in rapid fire range (more plausable now with 5th ed. running).. Necron Warriors.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

lord reevan is right, my death guard, or my nobz both have good armor, and fnp. 
my nobz are mostly armed with big choppas, which gives +2s, the furious charge they have adds +1s, for a total of s7, against rear armor, they will pack a serious punch, especially with all of the attacks they have. My eath guard is armed with either bolters and 2 plasma guns, or bolters plus 2 melta guns, as my force relies on maneuver, getting opportunities to hit the sides isn't much of a problem. Both can potentially bugger most vehicles, especially when close.

Remember, weapon destroyed results in excess of the total weapons on the vehicle are upgraded to immobilized, unless the vehicle is already immobilized, then it is upgraded to wrecked, vehicle destroyed. Glancing hits take more to finish off a vehicle, but can still neutralize it.


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