# Tyranid Rumours



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Courtesy of Natfka at Faeit212:



> * Tyranids: Synapse Changes, New Units, and an Author Named *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In development time Q3 2013/Q1 2014 (maybe that empty October space we've seen crop up in the schedule in the past?...if so sorry Sisters, looks like December will be the soonest we'll see you!) isn't that far off.

If Ward really is taking a crack at the Tyranids maybe we'll finally see a swarm that feels like an ever shifting, endless set of mouths coming to devour us all?


----------



## Turnip86 (Oct 7, 2011)

Would me nice to get Nids next year, my swarm needs an update. 

As for Ward as lead writer - should be ok. Most of the issues people had was with his fluff writing and lets face it, how much can you change the fluff of a centrally minded swarm of space bugs? Personally I was out of the hobby through the bulk of the Ward-hate so don't know what all the fuss was about . As long as it's all balanced and warriors become a bit more viable (I have loads of them so would be nice to use them and be more effective  ) then I'm happy. 

A new flyer goes along with every other army getting one but everything in plastic would be the best part of this - multiple use kits are great  Over all pretty good news


----------



## EmbraCraig (Jan 19, 2009)

Well a dual kit with Harpy and something else that can actually shoot at other aircraft would make sense. Prime and Shrike upgrade kits would be much appreciated (ok, so a Prime is pretty easy and you can get Shrike wings from FW, but still).

A new MC for infiltrating? A Lictor Alpha sort of deal could be cool... could end up just looking like a Trygon with a tentacly mouth, though. Would be nice if they made normal Lictors worth taking at the same time.

Some of the plastic combo kits sound more likely than others. Warriors/Lictors/Ravenors and Venomthropes/Zoanthropes would seem more likely dual kit combinations than the way this rumour has it.

I'd think most of this could be done with a WD insert, which I'd love to see - a little refresh would be quite nice about now.


----------



## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

there may be something in this and there may not be a huge amount of additional (ie entirely new) models in the codex


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Doing my usual follow up on this I ran into the following exchange in the comments section:



> Andrew LaneJanuary 5, 2013 12:13 PM
> Sounds very much like wish-listing to me. I can't imagine we'll see anything for Nids before 2015 (including models)
> Reply
> Replies
> ...


And this one:



> AnonymousJanuary 5, 2013 12:31 PM
> The current instintive behaviour for the tyranids under 6th is broken. the whole point of instinctive behaviour was a reason to keep your units under synapse control. If your termagants got out out of range and failed their leadership test, then they moved into cover meaning that they may not be in range of teh enemy to fire their weapons. If they were feeders, then they were subject to rage and ran at teh nearest enemy and tried to get into hand to hand (forsaking any shooting). If that nearest enemy was a tank, or unit of terminators, and you were aiming for the much easier to kill, but further away scouts on an objective, you were in trouble.
> 
> While Lurk is still the same, there is less disadvantage to feed. You still cannot shoot, but you are subject to rage, but in 6th this means you do not run at teh nearest enemy, AND you get +2 attacks instead of +1 Attack when you charge. Exactly why would you want your keep mawloc, raveners, carnifex, and hormagaunts in synapse range? Ok raveners and gaunts can still break, but monstrous creatures are fearless.
> ...


I think our source might be following up on some of the complaints with some frankly valid points.


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Meh, sounds like the futile made up wish-listing of whiny Tyranid players to me.


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Arcane said:


> Meh, sounds like the futile made up wish-listing of whiny Tyranid players to me.


Perhaps, but it's no less valid to share this with people as a rumour than any other rumour we find.


----------



## DivineEdge (May 31, 2012)

Be nice to see this come true. I really hope so. Hopefully, we will get a well balanced codex - well, I doubt that last bit if the author is true. But I would like to see those plastic elite choices.


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Zion said:


> Perhaps, but it's no less valid to share this with people as a rumour than any other rumour we find.


Of course, by all means. I'm just questioning the authenticity of the content and it's origin, not your post in any way. 

Just doesn't seem to have credit. However, if there wasn't so much evidence pointing towards a new Daemons codex soon I would have said the same thing about them.


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Arcane said:


> Of course, by all means. I'm just questioning the authenticity of the content and it's origin, not your post in any way.
> 
> Just doesn't seem to have credit. However, if there wasn't so much evidence pointing towards a new Daemons codex soon I would have said the same thing about them.


Fair enough. I just don't want us turning into the next Warseer by shooting down every rumour that doesn't come from Hastings, Harry or Stickmonkey...


----------



## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

I can't see Nid's getting updated until at least the end of the year. Theres more rumours supporting a Tau and Eldar update before then...

That said... yes, Nid's need an update. 6th ed really broke them and made them pretty much useless. Even the most hardcore nid player at my local doesn't use them right now as he just can't win with them unless its against a total noob.. and even then its luck of the army draw.

Soo yeah.. i'ts plausable.. but at the moment seems a little wishlisty.


----------



## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Zion said:


> Fair enough. I just don't want us turning into the next Warseer by shooting down every rumour that doesn't come from Hastings, Harry or Stickmonkey...


Problem is, appart from them, very few rumor mongers have proved reliable... or have come up with anything not really mentioned by them. Hence why I see most of these getting shot down as they come from mostly unknowns.

That said... when we get a new one who's right about several things on the run, I'll support the guy, or gal as it may be... so far though, there no-one but Hastings, Harry and Stickmonkey who's constantly right.

well, except maybe Darnok and Big Red...


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

GrizBe said:


> Problem is, appart from them, very few rumor mongers have proved reliable... or have come up with anything not really mentioned by them. Hence why I see most of these getting shot down as they come from mostly unknowns.
> 
> That said... when we get a new one who's right about several things on the run, I'll support the guy, or gal as it may be... so far though, there no-one but Hastings, Harry and Stickmonkey who's constantly right.
> 
> well, except maybe Darnok and Big Red...


And that's a fair stance to take, but if we don't give the new guys a chance to prove themselves and instead attack them for being the new guys we'll never get new sources. I prefer giving them a chance and letting the truth work itself out instead.


----------



## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

id like to see at least the plastic multi-boxes. and new warriors & finally get the harpy & other named units models.


----------



## DivineEdge (May 31, 2012)

By defenition, aren't rumor mongers going to be wrong more then they are right? I myself do not see how they even get rumors without talking to anyone hasn't signed an NSNDA. 

Personally, I am just glad that they aren't letting the nids die off. As long as they are getting rumors that means something has to be going on - which is good enough for me.


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

GrizBe said:


> I can't see Nid's getting updated until at least the end of the year. Theres more rumours supporting a Tau and Eldar update before then...
> 
> That said... yes, Nid's need an update. 6th ed really broke them and made them pretty much useless. Even the most hardcore nid player at my local doesn't use them right now as he just can't win with them unless its against a total noob.. and even then its luck of the army draw.
> 
> Soo yeah.. i'ts plausable.. but at the moment seems a little wishlisty.


I don't really want this to turn into a discussion about tactics but NO army is broken in 6th ed. Sure, some have advantages over others but this complaining by Nid players seems unfounded. The majority of issue seems to be they can no longer just press the easy button for auto win. Instead of just infiltrating Genestealers and getting first turn assaults off they actually have to think. There are plenty of things that buffed Nids in 6th and just because they have trouble with flyers doesn't mean BT, SoB, Tau, Daemons, and SWs don't have the same problems.


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Arcane said:


> I don't really want this to turn into a discussion about tactics but NO army is broken in 6th ed. Sure, some have advantages over others but this complaining by Nid players seems unfounded. The majority of issue seems to be they can no longer just press the easy button for auto win. Instead of just infiltrating Genestealers and getting first turn assaults off they actually have to think. There are plenty of things that buffed Nids in 6th and just because they have trouble with flyers doesn't mean BT, SoB, Tau, Daemons, and SWs don't have the same problems.


And of those Nids and Daemons both got some pretty good Flying Monstrous Creatures too.

Hell now the Harpy is actually pretty good.


----------



## Arcticor (Mar 19, 2011)

Just a quick question. Whats the ghorgons "snacking rule"? In terms of a new codex and models, I would expect another tyranid wave to be a lot more likely than a new codex. But even that would still be great.


----------



## Shady ed (Sep 9, 2010)

I hope they get a new 'dex. I've been wanting to start collecting 'nids for a while now but I'm not going to until they get a new codex as I don't want to buy one just to have the new one released a few months later.


----------



## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

New dex? Nope, ain't this year as far as I'm concerned same for first half of the next. WD update? Yes, I as far as I'm concerned its needed. Models would be nice though new rules are more desirable right now. 

I'm more interested in the comment with GW producing a dozen armies per year, Even if it's only in the form of WD pages alongside full blown codices. This way more armies will be balanced to the current edition than the he'll we have now with armies years old, units invalidated etc just for them to be OP when they do get redone and the others in the state the revamped army has just been in.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

If it were a Q3 release, the codex would be almost finished and most of those plastic kits sent off for moulding by now. We'd have more info than this wishlist.

Also, raveners have tails. It's more likely the tailed venomthropes would be paired with them, and the legged lictors (which would only need head and top arms swapped) would go with warriors. It's also fairly rare for more than 2 options of different units to be in one box. 

And yes, the gaunt is an older troop model. But there's nothing wrong with it...


----------



## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Arcane said:


> I don't really want this to turn into a discussion about tactics but NO army is broken in 6th ed. Sure, some have advantages over others but this complaining by Nid players seems unfounded. The majority of issue seems to be they can no longer just press the easy button for auto win. Instead of just infiltrating Genestealers and getting first turn assaults off they actually have to think. There are plenty of things that buffed Nids in 6th and just because they have trouble with flyers doesn't mean BT, SoB, Tau, Daemons, and SWs don't have the same problems.


My Khorne Demon Army begs to differ....6 games, 6 thrashings under 6th...poor guys used to win 2 in 3 under 5th.
Still, I got nearly £200 for them on ebay last week so someone still loves them!


----------



## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Turnip86 said:


> how much can you change the fluff of a centrally minded swarm of space bugs?


How much can you change the fluff of a reawakening, unspeaking, cold-minded mass of living metal driven to destroy all living things?

Well, for instance, you could say that suddenly they all possessed the ability to speak and interact and even ally with other races, you could give them a huge never-before-heard-of hierarchy of leaders and families who dress tables with food and drinks without really eating it for no apparent reason.

Oh, and you can put souls into robots and the robot into another robot so you can drive around in a robot while you robot!!!

...Nooo.... Mat Ward should be fine...

Anticipating Hive Fleet Diplomacy by end of this year.

Or some mind-bug that reveals what the Tyranid master plan is and has been all along. I. Can't. Wait.

Maybe this time though, fluff aside, my favorite models from the era of white metal - the Ravener and the Red Terror - will in the prior case NOT SUCK ASS and in the latter case EXIST.


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> How much can you change the fluff of a reawakening, unspeaking, cold-minded mass of living metal driven to destroy all living things?
> 
> Well, for instance, you could say that suddenly they all possessed the ability to speak and interact and even ally with other races, you could give them a huge never-before-heard-of hierarchy of leaders and families who dress tables with food and drinks without really eating it for no apparent reason.
> 
> ...


The Lords (now Overlords) where hinted at always being fully sentient in the old book. Infact there is a story in which a lord disguised as an Inquisitor (by wearing his skin) _speaks_. The horror I know.

From what I heard Ward wasn't the only one involved in the Necron codex, and that it had passed hands a few times so it's hard to say what is his fault specifically. That said, giving Necrons options on how you wanted to see them with anything ranging from shambling robot zombies (still canon!) to fully fleshed out overlords with plans and schemes was a great idea. Now people who like character and personality have it, and the ones who don't can just ignore it.

So yes, Ward's name is on a book that expands the Necrons from mindless shuffling robot zombies into a number of different options, personalities and even looks. Is he responsible for it? Not a damned clue! Do I wish people would move on past bitching how GW changed things (and thus expanded something that already existed to give us more to work with than just the Phalanx)? Damn skippy.


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Arcticor said:


> Just a quick question. Whats the ghorgons "snacking rule"? In terms of a new codex and models, I would expect another tyranid wave to be a lot more likely than a new codex. But even that would still be great.


Found the answer in the comments section over on the original page:



> AnonymousJanuary 5, 2013 4:15 PM
> The Ghorgon rule says you can exchange your all your attacks for a single attack at I1 that killing blows (basically fantasy instant-death) on a 4, 5 or 6 and you then regain D3 wounds if you instant deathed the model. So its an extremely situational and basically useless ability in fantasy, but might have a place in 40k


----------



## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

Zion said:


> The Lords (now Overlords) where hinted at always being fully sentient in the old book. Infact there is a story in which a lord disguised as an Inquisitor (by wearing his skin) _speaks_. The horror I know.


Is that in the dex or a BL short? Either way I so want to read that.


----------



## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Zion said:


> The Lords (now Overlords) where hinted at always being fully sentient in the old book. Infact there is a story in which a lord disguised as an Inquisitor (by wearing his skin) _speaks_. The horror I know.
> 
> From what I heard Ward wasn't the only one involved in the Necron codex, and that it had passed hands a few times so it's hard to say what is his fault specifically. That said, giving Necrons options on how you wanted to see them with anything ranging from shambling robot zombies (still canon!) to fully fleshed out overlords with plans and schemes was a great idea. Now people who like character and personality have it, and the ones who don't can just ignore it.


Except that it's not just the overlords, lords and SC's, it's the whole range of Necrons, minus Canoptek Spyders, Scarabs and Flayed Ones...

As for your wish that people stop moaning. I wish people stopped moaning about moaning. It's unoriginal and hints at a lack of investment, empathy and care for the game's well-being. People moan for a reason. You're basically wishing that everyone should just accept everything.

You must be so care-free to never be bothered by things that affect you.

Bitching is caring, except when you're bitching about the concept of bitching.


----------



## Viciator (Jul 12, 2012)

Would be good if 6th ed Nids will come soon - would make it easier for me to sell the Nids I bought but never assembled or used


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Except that it's not just the overlords, lords and SC's, it's the whole range of Necrons, minus Canoptek Spyders, Scarabs and Flayed Ones...
> 
> As for your wish that people stop moaning. I wish people stopped moaning about moaning. It's unoriginal and hints at a lack of investment, empathy and care for the game's well-being. People moan for a reason. You're basically wishing that everyone should just accept everything.
> 
> ...


You're actually wrong. I don't mind people complaining about things. The problem is when that complaining is done to take cheap shots at things (in this case, Ward). You weren't presenting a well written case about the Necron codex being less enjoyable because of the changes, you were bitching about Ward.

There is making a point about something and then there is flogging a dead horse. The Necron codex has been out since November 2011 and expanding on the character didn't hurt it at all. It's all background stuff to give you an excuse to run shiny new things, but doesn't mean you have to use that stuff to actually do it.

And when it comes to Ward, I get it. I really do. Some people don't like his work, but we've gone beyond that and reached parody levels when it comes to him now. I've seen people taking cracks at him over the way he dresses, his haircut, the way he smiles, his beard, and everything else. There is having a legitimate problem with his work, and then there is just taking the piss out of him for no reason. We've reached the point where we are no longer actually focusing on his work but wildly throwing around anything we can just to make him look bad.

I say this: if you hate Ward's work and want to critic it, it can't hurt to write a reasonable letter to him about the stuff you don't like and send it in. He will see it, and if you do it in a mature and adult manner he might learn from it too. And even if he blows you off, then at least you're trying something that would actually show a level of care above and beyond wanting to bitch about a man that you don't know on the internet who probably does the job better than most of us can.


----------



## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Actually, I'm one of the less negative towards Ward you'll find these days. I was in fact making a humorous post based on an easily abusable slip of tongue from Turnip86, slathered in sarcasm, in fact so much sarcasm, that it seems it went straight over your head.

The point was "surely, what harm can he do to Tyranids" and I simply pointed out an obvious precedent. But you're just so touchy, everything has to be poked at like you're personally offended. So bothered.

I find Robin Cruddace to be a truly more abominable writer than Ward, mostly because while Ward will shit over fluff very liberally, he is fairly consistent with the rules. Cruddace on the other hand is a trainwreck just waiting to happen with his next swing of the pen.

*Poof* Tyranids are now the shittiest army ever!
*Poof* Imperial Guard is now the most overpowered army ever!
(all within one year mind you)
*Poof* New achievement unlocked: Wobbliest writer since Moses!



Zion said:


> I say this: if you hate Ward's work and want to critic it, it can't hurt to write a reasonable letter to him


Even if the false premise that I hate Ward was true, why would I devalue my own time so greatly as to sit down, write an eloquent letter, put it in an envelope, pay for postage, and send it, when that would be _more_ effort than Games Workshop's own personnel administration put into hiring him? That is just not logical. If Games Workshop can't screen their applicants, and their editors can't censor their writers, then I'd have a lot more letters to send than just the one to Ward, because obviously the whole system is rotten from top to bottom.

Ward may be doing a lot of annoying things, but there's obviously someone *letting him*.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

If you have a problem with the fluff in the codeces, write those letters to Alan Merritt. He approves all things fluff-based. He's the one "letting them". 

I was somewhat disheartened with the switch from Kelly's nids to Cruddaces, but still play them. I'd love to see what someone else does with them, and truth be told, how many of Matt's *rules* have been terrible? (Yes, i'm asking for examples and reasonings, not vague complaints)


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I think Cruddace did a worse job with fluff in the Nid dex than I have ever read off a Matt Ward codex (granted I have not read BA but I have not heard much off there).

First thing is that in Kelly's codex the edition before there was a nice table that showed all the nid species and how they all related to each other written by a xenobiologist which looked pretty frickin cool. This was dropped for no good reason from the current dex.

Next is about Hive Fleet Gorgon. Whoever came up with the idea of a particular Nid strain that evolves at so fast a rate that over a paragraph they become resistant to pulse weaponry, don't trip over tree branches (which I was not aware the hyper fast Hormagaunts did anyway) and are freakin invisible to all but battlesuit sensors! Now granted I could agree with this when they state that the fleet had little in the way of big beasties since the process was not very efficient in energy terms but show off the hive fleet with an image that shows off at least 3 Hierophant Bio-titans and tons of swarming little guys. Seems a bit contradictory to me.

Next is the fluff for the Doom of Malantai. Stating the Eldar practically ignored it to focus on (and I quote) venomthropes and carnifexes since they believe they will cause more damage to the craftworld. I find this in huge error to the very fact the Doom was a psychic creature. I very much doubt the Eldar would leve a psychic creature unimpeded bearing in mind how much the Eldar rely on psychic ability and trickery in the army.

Then again I never liked the idea of the Tyranids having any special characters. To me it is against their character since Nids are not really a race of unique creatures. The hive mind has always just produced loads of the same type (even the Hive Tyrants are mass produced). The only exceptions I could conceive would be the Norn queens and the dominatrixes. End of. (If GW HAVE to have the Tyranids have SC's then at least they could have brought the Red Terror back. That thing was all kinds of awesome back in the day).

Next is about Hive fleet Jormungandr. As a WD reader I know this is the fleet that Phil Kelly uses but here in the book's section of fluff it does not really add much. I could strip it all away and still not be bothered by it. Nothing characterises the hive fleet apart from launching lots of Raveners and Trygons before attacking. And isolating a system by spreading out around it (somehow buffering off all attacks despite the fact Behemoth was beaten off Maccrage for being spread out around it). Nothing really fancy or different about it at all.

Instead in the fluff I would have included more about Hive Fleet Collosus and the zoats that were crewing it followed by the Zoroastra-Atilla wars. At the end half a planet was left uninhabitable and they could have teased us about why that was or even as Imperial scientists begin exploring it what they have found.

Also in the fluff I believe a piece that differs from every Tyranid attack plan would be a refreshing change. I could summarise every piece of Tyranid fluff as follows:

1. Tyranids invade star system/planet etc with huge waves of numbers.
2. They encounter some early resistance but these are swiftly set aside by the Tyranids.
3. Enemies of the Nids begin preparations of how to defeat them around a specific planet they Nids are going to invade.
4. Nids invade said planet and are finally beaten back and defeated after a large battle occuring on the ground and in space that results in huge numbers of casualties for the defenders.

What I want to see is perhaps one piece of fluff where the Nids invade in the early stages and get their asses handed to them by some muy macho race of guys (or gals) before the next hive fleet realises it drastically has to change it tactics. Maybe another Nid fleet could be easily beaten or perhaps they defeat the defenders at the planet they made a stand on but get defeated via other means.

Just throwing my 2 cents into this arena.


----------



## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

I like that the current nid codex added feesable biology to the nids, and really hammered home the single organism fluff

The things I don't like all related to the rules, several units had a price hike (or reduced effectiveness unless paying extra for upgrades), Some units were made virtually unplayable/ uncompetitive (looking at the carni). All the really interesting units like shrikes were not durable to account for their cost (Warrior Genus in general really) 

This meant that most lists became tervigon spam, possibly with a couple of trygons. Or Genestealer heavy lists. 

Nids were also hampered by lack of model support, tervigon, was released much later than the dex, still no sign of the harpy or spore 

So how do you fix them in 6th? Venomthropes could block units from snapfiring, bring back the synapse immunity to instant death to toughen warriors. Give carnifexes a role again. I'd be happy if guants were cut in stats and points to really make them more hordy. I could go on, but I think they should focus on disrupting and overwhelming an opponent.

Make them play on the table similar to their fluff


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

The last codex did present us with a change in the Nids. There were a number of new species added in, varying the tactics greatly at the expense of customisation of the original species. That in itself was the 'step' in this edition. The Hive expanding its repetoire. Maybe the next Codex will see the Hive tactics evolve following these additions: the ones introduced previously with no / few options will become more customisable, and a few new additions with fewer options will appear. Who knows?


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

6th also gave the carnifex a role - its got one of the few AP2 guns, attached to the only creature that can get S10 attacks without halving its effectiveness. Its still overpriced, but add in its ability to run in broods and it does have a role...


----------



## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Stephen_Newman said:


> I think Cruddace did a worse job with fluff in the Nid dex than I have ever read off a Matt Ward codex (granted I have not read BA but I have not heard much off there).
> 
> ....
> 
> *Next is about Hive Fleet Gorgon. Whoever came up with the idea of a particular Nid strain that evolves at so fast a rate that over a paragraph they become resistant to pulse weaponry*


Hey... I did not actually know about that last part. Must have eluded me.

But if that's the case it sends my mind into an epiphany...

Maybe the hyperactive Tau evolution witnessed over the 6000 years the Imperium lost contact due to the warp storm was because of a local stellar anomaly, and the hive fleet arm coming into Tau space experienced the same thing? He may be hinting at something like that.

If this or something similar, ends up as becoming an actual canon cause and effect scenario that explains the rapid Tau evolution, it's the first positively amazing piece of background writing that has occurred in 40K for at least 5 years...

It has always been "these guys got mad and did war over here but they didn't kill em all and now vengeance ensues derp derp, and I am commander darkwing dark and I am a very bad man etc. ad nauseam"

I would love it if they actually got a bit Sci into their Fi every now and then, especially relating to Tau since they're the most plausible faction with relateable motivations and methods in the game. And Tyranids represent the truly primal force and are the perfect "plot vessel" to drive this eureka.

Personally, that whole premise, even if a spur of the moment theory, outclass seven or eight species origin stories that were already in place before Tau showed up, for pure weight of logic.


----------



## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

Turnip86 said:


> As for Ward as lead writer - should be ok. Most of the issues people had was with his fluff writing and lets face it, how much can you change the fluff of a centrally minded swarm of space bugs?


We thought that about our mindless horde of robots. Oh, poor C'tan, where art thou?

(I personally think his rules-writing is fantastic, just not a fan of that fluff-change!)


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Actually, I'm one of the less negative towards Ward you'll find these days. I was in fact making a humorous post based on an easily abusable slip of tongue from Turnip86, slathered in sarcasm, in fact so much sarcasm, that it seems it went straight over your head.


Sarcasm doesn't read as well as it sounds. It's easily lost online.



MetalHandkerchief said:


> The point was "surely, what harm can he do to Tyranids" and I simply pointed out an obvious precedent. But you're just so touchy, everything has to be poked at like you're personally offended. So bothered.
> 
> I find Robin Cruddace to be a truly more abominable writer than Ward, mostly because while Ward will shit over fluff very liberally, he is fairly consistent with the rules. Cruddace on the other hand is a trainwreck just waiting to happen with his next swing of the pen.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Cruddace has some issues that people seem to ignore in favour of throwing Ward under the bus.




MetalHandkerchief said:


> Even if the false premise that I hate Ward was true, why would I devalue my own time so greatly as to sit down, write an eloquent letter, put it in an envelope, pay for postage, and send it, when that would be _more_ effort than Games Workshop's own personnel administration put into hiring him? That is just not logical. If Games Workshop can't screen their applicants, and their editors can't censor their writers, then I'd have a lot more letters to send than just the one to Ward, because obviously the whole system is rotten from top to bottom.
> 
> Ward may be doing a lot of annoying things, but there's obviously someone *letting him*.


I wasn't saying that -you- hated him, I was saying in general *if* you have a complaint there are better ways to address them. We've well established that GW doesn't like to read the stuff on sites like this, so realistically if we want them to know we have a problem we have to bring it to their attention. Taking the time to explain the problems, and even offer reasonable solutions shows we care about the stuff we're getting.


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

SilverTabby said:


> If you have a problem with the fluff in the codeces, write those letters to Alan Merritt. He approves all things fluff-based. He's the one "letting them".
> 
> I was somewhat disheartened with the switch from Kelly's nids to Cruddaces, but still play them. I'd love to see what someone else does with them, and truth be told, how many of Matt's *rules* have been terrible? (Yes, i'm asking for examples and reasonings, not vague complaints)


Hm. Didn't know about Merritt. I actually thought Jervis might have been the one for that, but now I know different. Thanks!



Farseer Darvaleth said:


> We thought that about our mindless horde of robots. Oh, poor C'tan, where art thou?
> 
> (I personally think his rules-writing is fantastic, just not a fan of that fluff-change!)


The older codex was more like "C'tan and their zombie robots!" than Codex: Necrons. I think the shift to the Necrons being more important is a good thing personally.


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

I guess while we are on the subject I must say while I like the GK codex I feel Ward did a terrible job with the fluff. It's too over the top, even for a John Blanche fan like myself. They have the best gear, with the most power psychers and fight the greatest danger and are more powerful than any other chapter... kind of like the Blood Angels. It's just a "my dad is bigger than your dad" kind of thing that gets old. Hyperbole doesn't equal good fiction.


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Arcane said:


> I guess while we are on the subject I must say while I like the GK codex I feel Ward did a terrible job with the fluff. It's too over the top, even for a John Blanche fan like myself. They have the best gear, with the most power psychers and fight the greatest danger and are more powerful than any other chapter... kind of like the Blood Angels. It's just a "my dad is bigger than your dad" kind of thing that gets old. Hyperbole doesn't equal good fiction.


I can agree that there are parts that are a bit over the top (Draigo reads a lot like something from a legend, because if it I kind of wish he was a background piece, not an active option for the army), but there are things in there that work pretty well too. I love how Mordrak's background reads, and I love the idea of a psyker being haunted by the psychic ghosts of his fallen comrades. That's a pretty cool bit that I wish got more focus.


----------



## Sothot (Jul 22, 2011)

I can't stand the constant Ward-bashing I have to hear as well. Space Marines, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, and Necrons are all very in-depth books with tons of viable builds and interlocking storylines. I can only assume that if Ward does Tyranids it will be on par with these books as well. I do agree that his fluff pieces tend to be less interesting than most of the other codex writers... But I blame that on the newer tendency to write from the faction's perspective rather than from the Inquisition's. But then, the fluff bits really aren't as important as the ability to build multiple decent army lists. I'm hopeful rumours are true and we get to see a new book for the bugs by the end of the year!


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Meh, I won't get into a back and worth about Ward. GW shouldn't hire game designers to write fluff. That's like hiring the architects to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. If they wanted it to be good they should hire a novelist like J. Robert King who has experience in both.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

The dept is called "Games Development" because it develops the game. Fluff is second to the actual rules. You could have the greatest backstory in the world, but if the rules are rubbish no-one'll play them. 

When hiring, they focus on the ability to make good rules, and writing comes second. Because in the end, they are writing rulebooks not novels. Storytelling you can improve with time and practise...


----------



## nevynxxx (Dec 27, 2011)

SilverTabby said:


> The dept is called "Games Development" because it develops the game. Fluff is second to the actual rules. You could have the greatest backstory in the world, but if the rules are rubbish no-one'll play them.
> 
> When hiring, they focus on the ability to make good rules, and writing comes second. Because in the end, they are writing rulebooks not novels. Storytelling you can improve with time and practise...



I think the point was more, if you have multiple people to work on the book, you employ games devs to do the rules, and novellists to do the fluff. Then you have a bloody good games dev to make sure the two merge sensibly....

Me, I think leave the job to those who've been doing it for 25 years, something must be being done right <wink>


----------



## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

SilverTabby said:


> The dept is called "Games Development" because it develops the game. Fluff is second to the actual rules. You could have the greatest backstory in the world, but if the rules are rubbish no-one'll play them.
> 
> When hiring, they focus on the ability to make good rules, and writing comes second. Because in the end, they are writing rulebooks not novels. Storytelling you can improve with time and practise...


That would be acceptable if, Black Library, their own freaking book publisher, would commission some actual fucking books that aren't about Spess Muhreens, Inquisitors and Chaos Gods.

Xeno players are literally starved for background, so when a writer comes along and pukes up some crappy story that is suddenly canon, it's a big fucking deal.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

As far as games dev are concerned, all the races have a codex of fluff, and whatever iimperial-biased stuff is in the rulebook. All the extras like the Black Library is out of their hands, and doesn't impact on the codeces and rulebook. *

Don't blame the Studio for the fact that the novelists want to write about the Imperium. Blame the novelists who don't want to write xenos and those who approve applications to the Black Library. 

Because lets face it, its much easier to write from a human point of view and get it right. You spend months writing a novel from an alien's PoV, and be told it doesn't feel right. Xenos races are just that - alien, and so anything written from their PoV will be a more risky sell than a human one. When you're writing for a living, you can't afford for months of work to be rejected..

*though if someone comes up with something cool and new, it may be considered for a place in a later codex. But when considering the rules as a whole, it's pretty much all internal.


----------



## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Not really Tyranid Rumours any more this is it?


----------



## FallenAngelsRedeemed (Mar 30, 2011)

new wd suggests new nid models are a ways out. Army showcased was a staff members nid army where he states his next project is a kitbash harpy. Comment he made was along the lines of 'if and when they make new nid models'. Good read


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

FallenAngelsRedeemed said:


> new wd suggests new nid models are a ways out. Army showcased was a staff members nid army where he states his next project is a kitbash harpy. Comment he made was along the lines of 'if and when they make new nid models'. Good read


Right, but that was also written at least 3 months ago....a lot changes in 3 months.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Given we have virtually nothing to go on, was anything other than divergence expected? At least it's still loosely based around codex writing, and started with preference of writers and styles...


----------



## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

FallenAngelsRedeemed said:


> new wd suggests new nid models are a ways out. Army showcased was a staff members nid army where he states his next project is a kitbash harpy. Comment he made was along the lines of 'if and when they make new nid models'. Good read


Yeah he says "if and when" in the last paragraph after talking about converting minis to tyranid primes which do not have specific models *yet* and that he (Jes Bickham b.t.w) *will grab them immediately* "if and when" they are released.
We all know it is a question of when not if a codex will come out and if you like conspiracy theories that last paragraph could both be a hint as to whats coming soon or trying to put you off the scent of whats coming soon depending your view, I say sooner rather than later!


----------



## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

FallenAngelsRedeemed said:


> new wd suggests new nid models are a ways out. Army showcased was a staff members nid army where he states his next project is a kitbash harpy. Comment he made was along the lines of 'if and when they make new nid models'. Good read


There could even already be a harpy model sitting somewhere waiting for a date to be freed to rape some wallets, oh wait, there is


----------

