# Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition Rumour



## Lord of the Night

This just cropped up on the Bolthole;



Fenris said:


> Seems summer will be an...interesting time....
> Rumors will be rumors obviously
> 
> 
> -9th Edition to pick up where the ET leaves off in fluff, plus a couple of hundred years or so (to reboot the setting).
> 
> -The Warhammer World gets shattered on a dimensional level during the climax of the ET. No more "map of the Old World" - it's now little bubbles of reality, where pockets of civilisation try desperately to eke a living before the next collision with another bubble, which may be full of Chaos. (To address the problem of "how come my Tomb Kings of Khemri are fighting against Wood Elves from Athel Loren?", not that I get the impression that either of those will still exist, but you get the idea)
> 
> -New faction... heavily armoured, religious, "good" human warriors fighting with the power of the gods. (Warhammer Space Marines, basically). Karl Franz Ascended seems to be the prototype or precursor for this concept, AFAICT.
> 
> -9th edition will have 6 factions. Model diversity cut in half shelf space. New world and new age so current factions and lore aren't recognizable at all. Each new faction has like 3 core units that will always be on the shelf. Much faster releases of stuff, mainly characters and special units of 2-5 fancy models (like Morghasts) that have their own rules right in the box, so not dependent on a static army book. Many of the these non-core models are only available for a limited time (say 6 months to a year), so they don't take up shelf space forever and ever. Many existing models are not usable in 9th.
> 
> -We can expect the next edition of Fantasy to throw everything up in the air. The whole End Times move has been to wean people onto a whole new take on the Warhammer world and it's going to start with every army being "chaosified". We can expect army play styles and appearance to change quite dramatically and there will be a whole load of new models being released early on to tie everything together. This has caused quite a stir back at GW HQ as there are a lot of people behind the scenes (some of which are very well known to us) who don't like the changes that have been made. I have also been told that the models due to be released are some of the best to date!
> 
> -Add to that (by my best source so far):
> 
> '9th' [or] whatever is next for fantasy [...] coming 2015 in the summer. The new faction [plus] future releases after this point for five 'existing' factions (which plus this would make six) […] but I think there will be [...] more.



Make of that what you will. I am unsure of how I feel about the lore side of it, though I will give it a chance. As for the models, BS. Total BS. So from now on we can expect revolving door model releases, I like the idea of rules-in-the-box, but not that model kits will be on limited release spans. I really hope GW change their mind about that.


LotN


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## Bindi Baji

Lord of the Night said:


> This just cropped up on the Bolthole;


lol @ fantasy space marines, 
dragons are also due to get power armour, create their own faction and start a band


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## Asamodai

That might just mean limited time in stores before becoming direct only.

I'm excited. To see a setting dramatically moved forward is something we haven't seen before and it opens a whole load of possibilities. I was worried The End Times would become just another campaign like Storm of Chaos. 

It's hard deciding what to do army-wise though. I was originally going High Elves, then (post events of Khaine) Elves, now I think I should wait to see what the new edition brings.

The new faction sound like Grey Knight's. Maybe have something to do with the giant silver armoured warrior Araloth meets?


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## dragonkingofthestars

Now that is interesting. That whole bit about the world being pockets of realty is a good touch.

Not so keen on the idea of them to six factions, who wants to bet the Brets are going to be a casualty.


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## Tawa

"Bubbles"....?

The Old World just became a fart in the bath..... :shok:


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## Angel of Blood

Not buying it for a moment. I'd put money down on how confident I am that this won't be happening.


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## MidnightSun

Fantasy's less popular than 40k, sure, but not so unpopular that GW is willing to kill off it's entire fanbase by abolishing the fluff and factions and making a whole new setting.


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## Vaz

well that sounds fucking shit.

As to the design brief or meeting to discuss what should happen come 9th edition, I can just imagine it.

"Hey, hey guys... What about this for an idea? We take that world that we've spend developing for the last 30 years... And then rip the heart out of it! Caboom! Kablooey! It's gone. It's a wazzy it's a woozy, it's fairy dust! It doesn't exist. Hmmhmm. humhmm... hmmhmmhmmhmmm *beats chest* humhmmm. *beat beat*..."


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## Tawa

I call highjinx and tomfoolery.


Still sounds like a fart in the bath though. :stinker: Ooh, Nurgle...... uke:


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## Vaz

Just done a bit of research - your "Fenris" character is being a bit of dick in not providing his source, but it's come via Warseer nearly a week ago (helps if you too provide the link?)

The rumours are split into 4 different birdies - according to Darnok, although the one he believes to be the most reputable is only stating it will come in the summer.

However, most people are taking the rumour seriously. Me? I'm just happy I sold all my fantasy years ago.


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## Loli

Tawa said:


> "Bubbles"....?
> 
> The Old World just became a fart in the bath..... :shok:


This has to be one of the funniest things I've read in awhile. 

I don't play Fantasy - I collect Brets though, was always waiting for an update before I leapt in - but this seems nuts, flat out insanity, I know End Times is changing things up for Fantasy but it's my understanding that that is playing upon Lore and advancing the story. This just sounds like it completely guts it Jack the Ripper style.


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## Einherjar667

Wonder how they could implement this sort of change without coming out with the core rules, and all the army books at the same time? I'll remain optimistic.

If this is true, they sound like they're trying to appeal to the folks who play Warmahordes.


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## tu_shan82

seriously? i call bullshit on this one. Having said that however this is gw we're talkin bout and it wouldn't be the first time the've screwed us, but seriously this does seem far fetched even for them.


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## DaisyDuke

That sounds shit, why would you do that to your fan base.
I don't have a club or play at lgs, is fantasy that dead that it needs such a reboot? This sounds like its fantasy's last hope to make money or its gone shenanigans.


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## Einherjar667

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/important-information-about-changes-to.html?m=1

Important read.


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## Vaz

Sounds fucking shit.

*Not a money grab*

Absolute bollocks. While I don't mind the idea of patching into the game to fix problems, it should be done free. That anyone believes the hype that GW won't intentionally create the imbalance (as really, the only way to balance OP'd units is to tone them down) is out of their fucking tree.


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## Loli

I had to laugh

'As these expansions are not permanent in the world, so too will these models not be.' then a little further down 'It will give everyone the opportunity and hopefully inspiration to do something new, but without invalidating everything from the past. It is opening room for creativity, not closing doors.' 

Yeah because essentially making the bulk of your new models Limited Edition is not closing doors at all. And it makes it harder for people to try new factions or units unless they get them at launch unless they turn to eBay. This has got to be the most stupid thing going.


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## Brother Cato

Three words that'll kill WHFB stone dead if true - Limited Edition Models.



> All the books (again, with the caveat that older books may not be optimal for the new core rules [but truthfully the core rules aren't changing wildly, like 5th to 6th edition 40k, really more of a tidied up 8th edition with a brand new setting]) are designed to be compatible.
> 
> Support will be towards the new book, new setting, however, with End Times being in the past. Viable, but not current.
> 
> Expect armies to have fewer units in their core books, which will be heavily focused on the fluff for where they are now, what they've been doing in the centuries immediately following the sundering. This will create a more "balanced" pool as they will be rapidly produced and released (consider a scale even somewhat faster than what we've had for 40k these past few years).
> 
> 
> These will then be expanded on with supplements, not intended as money-grabs (as I am sure they will be received by the majority of your readers), but more as guided hands to acknowledge deficiencies in books, or even "global meta" changes. The first time that Games Workshop will be openly acknowledging things that need changes.
> 
> These units will typically get white dwarf rules treatments heralding the release in hardback of all of the new units from the previous month(s), for a new setting expansion, which will pit several of the races together (representing a collision).
> 
> As these expansions are not permanent in the world, so too will these models not be. They are intended to only get one template injection mold life-run, the same as the books will be printed only once in hardback, then delayed paperback.
> 
> They will of course remain legal throughout all of 9th, they will just be more limited eventually, the same as the end time models will not be available forever, the same as XYZ model is no longer available (just with a shorter life span than previous experienced). I mean... you can't get albion models anymore either, but that campaign was before people whined on the internet, so I guess that's why no one's complaining.


I don't think I'm alone in thinking "What the fucking fuck" when I read this...


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## Einherjar667

Too much new information, way too fast. It's scaring the shit out of people. Why would GW spread this news around without easing anyone into the idea? I'm a GW apologist most of the time but... this is weird.


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## Brother Cato

Einherjar667 said:


> Too much new information, way too fast. It's scaring the shit out of people. Why would GW spread this news around without easing anyone into the idea? I'm a GW apologist most of the time but... this is weird.


To offer some sort of benefit of the doubt, it could just be rumormongers spreading misinformation. The self-congratulating smugness on some of the stuff Faeit's run concerning this leads credence here.

That said, assuming it's not the case...what the absolute f-


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## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> To offer some sort of benefit of the doubt, it could just be rumormongers spreading misinformation. The self-congratulating smugness on some of the stuff Faeit's run concerning this leads credence here.
> 
> That said, assuming it's not the case...what the absolute f-


It almost sounds like this is a specialist game, or a secondary game, in the making, and not an actual full game. Or perhaps we are caricaturing it in our minds and it won't be quite as radical as we are imagining. Also, the wording on half this stuff is still to ambiguous.


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## locustgate

Lord of the Night said:


> -9th Edition to pick up where the ET leaves off in fluff, plus a couple of hundred years or so (to reboot the setting).
> 
> -The Warhammer World gets shattered on a dimensional level during the climax of the ET. No more "map of the Old World" - it's now little bubbles of reality, where pockets of civilisation try desperately to eke a living before the next collision with another bubble, which may be full of Chaos. (To address the problem of "how come my Tomb Kings of Khemri are fighting against Wood Elves from Athel Loren?", not that I get the impression that either of those will still exist, but you get the idea)
> 
> -New faction... heavily armoured, religious, "good" human warriors fighting with the power of the gods. (Warhammer Space Marines, basically). Karl Franz Ascended seems to be the prototype or precursor for this concept, AFAICT.
> 
> -9th edition will have 6 factions. Model diversity cut in half shelf space. New world and new age so current factions and lore aren't recognizable at all. Each new faction has like 3 core units that will always be on the shelf. Much faster releases of stuff, mainly characters and special units of 2-5 fancy models (like Morghasts) that have their own rules right in the box, so not dependent on a static army book. Many of the these non-core models are only available for a limited time (say 6 months to a year), so they don't take up shelf space forever and ever. Many existing models are not usable in 9th.
> 
> -We can expect the next edition of Fantasy to throw everything up in the air. The whole End Times move has been to wean people onto a whole new take on the Warhammer world and it's going to start with every army being "chaosified". We can expect army play styles and appearance to change quite dramatically and there will be a whole load of new models being released early on to tie everything together. This has caused quite a stir back at GW HQ as there are a lot of people behind the scenes (some of which are very well known to us) who don't like the changes that have been made. I have also been told that the models due to be released are some of the best to date!


SHIT! Tosses out my homebrew fluff.

Soooooo.....basically they make it into a fantasy version of 40k

Tosses boxes of unassembled warhammer units. 

Really.......so they are taking a step back to the olde daes. 

MOTHER F-Lots of cursing follows, tosses few assembled units and few remaining mad scribblings of fluff, deletes large number of ebooks, and dex.

Yeaaaaah......throw it into the air, that's a way to put it.

Digs boxes out of trash and puts it on the 'ebay' shelf.


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## LokiDeathclaw

Lord of the Night said:


> This just cropped up on the Bolthole;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make of that what you will. I am unsure of how I feel about the lore side of it, though I will give it a chance. As for the models, BS. Total BS. So from now on we can expect revolving door model releases, I like the idea of rules-in-the-box, but not that model kits will be on limited release spans. I really hope GW change their mind about that.
> 
> 
> LotN


Absolute bullshit! If this is true (i have my doubts) I will just play 8th edition and maybe End Times. I have the books and building an army at the moment. But seriously WTF! BUBBLES! BUBBLES! What idiot came up with that idea! Third party companies will benifit though.....


Einherjar667 said:


> http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/important-information-about-changes-to.html?m=1
> 
> Important read.


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## Achaylus72

I call bullshit on this.

1, Games Workshop just posted a whopping 11 million pounds sales loss for 2013/14.

2, Games Workshop is expecting to post another 11 Million pounds + sales loss for 2014/15

3, Games Workshop's shares have slipped to record lows, even prior to the London Stock Exchange crash the other day.

And now we expect this bullshit.

GW might as well file for bankruptcy now and get it over and done with.:scare:


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## locustgate

Achaylus72 said:


> I call bullshit on this.
> 
> 1, Games Workshop just posted a whopping 11 million pounds sales loss for 2013/14.
> 
> 2, Games Workshop is expecting to post another 11 Million pounds + sales loss for 2014/15
> 
> 3, Games Workshop's shares have slipped to record lows, even prior to the London Stock Exchange crash the other day.
> 
> And now we expect this bullshit.
> 
> GW might as well file for bankruptcy now and get it over and done with.:scare:


Expect that it is going to happen, pessimism......you'll live longer.


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## Achaylus72

locustgate said:


> Expect that it is going to happen, pessimism......you'll live longer.


Hell with a long life, must have my Brets now.:crazy:


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## locustgate

Achaylus72 said:


> Hell with a long life, must have my Brets now.:crazy:


Damn.......you should become a pessimist you may then live long enough to to see a Bret release.....or not....they probably will never release them.


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## Einherjar667

Anyone wondering if the ill reception thats buzzing around will squash this plan?

And this will not cause bankruptcy. They are probably going to invest the same amount into this (or less) that they putting iNto WFB are now. They wouldn't do something this extreme unless they had nothing to lose


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## Zion

Einherjar667 said:


> Anyone wondering if the ill reception thats buzzing around will squash this plan?
> 
> And this will not cause bankruptcy. They are probably going to invest the same amount into this (or less) that they putting iNto WFB are now. They wouldn't do something this extreme unless they had nothing to lose


Seeing as Fantasy hasn't even in the top 5 selling wargaming since 2013 and they're putting just as much money into it, if not more than 40k, and had a major wake-up call with the Chapterhouse lawsuit about what they can and can't protect they need to do something to shake the game up a bit. WFB hasn't seen a major change since it's inception in the 80s and has such a high investment requirement _just to start playing_ that something needs to change majorly to bring in new players.

I think the rumors at least have merit and will be picking up the core rules when they drop to see what is happening because it's a game I'd like to play but can't afford to right now.


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## Vaz

It won't quash it. For the rumours to be coming out now, and for it to be hitting the shelves in 4-6 months, it should have been in production and slotted in now as the big summer release. Things will be at the printers, likely, while newly launched models and kits a-la Island of Blood will begun to be made.

The worst thing is with this rumour is that it's all so plausible, and that I hope it's just lost in translation or something and it's not as drastic as it sounds.


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## Einherjar667

Vaz said:


> It won't quash it. For the rumours to be coming out now, and for it to be hitting the shelves in 4-6 months, it should have been in production and slotted in now as the big summer release. Things will be at the printers, likely, while newly launched models and kits a-la Island of Blood will begun to be made.
> 
> The worst thing is with this rumour is that it's all so plausible, and that I hope it's just lost in translation or something and it's not as drastic as it sounds.



I am betting that this new version won't be nearly as insane as the rumors are making it sound. We're all picturing something very extreme, that negates all of our armies and has fantasy space marine fighting in bubbles. Even the most wacked out company knows going THAT FAR from their original product when updating it will alienate the better part of their return customers. They still need to appeal to us, no matter what they do, as a business, they don't have a choice.

Plus it sounds like they're taking an honest crack at lower model counts and balance, something we've been begging for!


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## Zion

One of the rumor posts I've seen is that everything from 8th will still be legal to use and play, it just won't really be supported the same way as it is now. So the vets are appeased if they want to hang onto the current game with the new core rules, while new players get to come in and try the new stuff which is supposed to be aimed at making it easier to start armies without dropping $500+ bucks.


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## MidnightSun

I dearly hope the lowering of model count isn't true. It smacks of being panicked by Warmahordes and Infinity, and if Fantasy/40k model count goes down, people are just going to play Warmachine and Infinity which have experience as small-scale games. It'd totally kill the USP that Fantasy/40k is a 28mm battle game, not a 28mm skirmish game.


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## Khorne's Fist

MidnightSun said:


> I dearly hope the lowering of model count isn't true. It smacks of being panicked by Warmahordes and Infinity, and if Fantasy/40k model count goes down, people are just going to play Warmachine and Infinity which have experience as small-scale games. It'd totally kill the USP that Fantasy/40k is a 28mm battle game, not a 28mm skirmish game.


A skirmish game could be anything between 10 and 40 or so minis. WFB will never be that. They do need to address the extremely high start up cost for a new army. At the moment a single optimised unit can take up to 4 boxes to fill, which equates to about €120. For a single unit that is just ridiculous. There are games systems where you can buy a whole force for that. It's the major reason I never took the plunge myself.


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## tu_shan82

the problem isnt that a unit takes 4 boxes to complete its the fact that those 4 boxes cost that much in the 1st place if the product cost less they wouldnt be in this position. all ripping the guts out of one of their core systems will do is alienate


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## tu_shan82

cntd from above. Their existing customer base. I just hope they dont do the same to 40k down the track, that is if they survive this fuck up. Mind you it may not happen at all, but as others have said it pays to pessimistic its less disapointing inthe end


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## humakt

I am sceptical about going down to just 6 armies. Dwarfs are pretty new, yet the rumour says they get canned. I can understand the IP point of view, but to just bin the whole lot seems extreme. Its almost impossible to protect the fantasy IP as far as I can see regardless of what you do. 

I have to say if the rumour is true I would be very disappointed. Especially as I have just started to collect a WHF army.


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## Zion

From rumors they aren't getting canned, they're getting folded in with the humans (the less unique aspects of them are getting canned though, same for humans, Tomb Kings, ect).

And the scaling down of Fantasy I see to be more akin to 40k where it'll be unit based, like it is now, but playable with smaller units.


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## Jace of Ultramar

Seems like a lot of panic over rumors.

At this point and time there isn't anything to worry over as nothing has actually been released in a statement by GW.

Besides, shouldn't the raging wait until the first preview is released in White Dwarf?


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## MidnightSun

Khorne's Fist said:


> A skirmish game could be anything between 10 and 40 or so minis. WFB will never be that. They do need to address the extremely high start up cost for a new army. At the moment a single optimised unit can take up to 4 boxes to fill, which equates to about €120. For a single unit that is just ridiculous. There are games systems where you can buy a whole force for that. It's the major reason I never took the plunge myself.


To be fair, GW miniatures are _amazing_ compared to the other things on the market, in my view. Everyone else is either significantly lower quality (Warmachine) or lacks the awesomeness of multi-part plastic kits with a breadth of options and a lot of flexibility in terms of dynamic poseability (Infinity, Warmachine). Yeah, it's stupidly priced if you just want them as playing pieces, but if you want them as models then GW is excellent.


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## Einherjar667

I would bet that the 9th ed rulebook will include rules for smaller armies, etc. fr skirmish sized games. But why would that mean that larger games won't be supported? People are just panicking and drawing extreme conclusions from these these rumors. GW is a fickle company to say the least, but I doubt they would make NEW RELEASES to totally nuke their own game. That would be a business sin.

And evidently everyone had their MBA over at warseer now *massive eye roll*


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## Zion

Internet experts always pop up when this kind of stuff comes up.


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## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> Internet experts always pop up when this kind of stuff comes up.





Einherjar667 said:


> I would bet that the 9th ed rulebook will include rules for smaller armies, etc. fr skirmish sized games. But why would that mean that larger games won't be supported? People are just panicking and drawing extreme conclusions from these these rumors. GW is a fickle company to say the least, but I doubt they would make NEW RELEASES to totally nuke their own game. That would be a business sin.
> 
> And evidently everyone had their MBA over at warseer now *massive eye roll*


Agreed, on both counts.


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## bitsandkits

Well firstly its rumours, they have been wrong before and will be wrong again,secondly trust in GW, IF GW have decided its time to mix things up again in the fantasy world i say embrace it, its likely this is yet another throwback to the chapter house case, it could just be another huge fuck you to the likes of mantic and the other companies producing cheap ass stuff to be played in fantasy, hell i dont know but if it spawns more stuff like the glotkin and nagash im all for it!


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## Brother Cato

This just in, folks.

It's an opinion piece however, so feel free to skip over it.


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## Vaz

They're defending this update by saying "you can still play 8th edition"?

Get in the bin.


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## Einherjar667

I am remaining hopeful that they will offer a few modes up play. It sounds like the fluff is going to play with "era"s almost: Warhammer as we know it, The End Times, and this new version. Perhaps the "warhammer as we know it" will come with rules similar to an updated version of 8th, and the new version will be a separate game style more similar to Warmachine/hordes/Skirmishy type games?

Or maybe they will just keep 8th ed in print.


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## Brother Cato

Vaz said:


> They're defending this update by saying "you can still play 8th edition"?
> 
> Get in the bin.


I agree, especially if what we hear about "Limited Run Units" is true. If it weren't my sole source of news, I'd delete it out of my bookmarks.


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## locustgate

Vaz said:


> They're defending this update by saying "you can still play 8th edition"?
> 
> Get in the bin.


Sigh. Takes pictures of warhammer Christmas gifts.


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## Einherjar667

I'm going to turn my sights back to 40k honestly, for the time being. This rumor has made me hesitant to start any new projects til I get some new concrete facts.


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## The Irish Commissar

I'm seriously pissed off by all this. I've just started playing fantasy, I've learned all the rules, spent alot of money on an undead army and have spent a good lot of time painting all my minis. Right now I can't even look at my warhammer fantasy minis. All motivation to paint is gone. Like even if I can still play 8th forever, what's the point. They're adding no new units and no more updating of the codexs. Like honestly what is the point!.


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## The Irish Commissar

What even more annoying is that GW have not either confirmed or denied anything to do with. What they're doing at the moment is continuing to sell the current fantasy mini and rules even though (if the rumors are true) they're going to be completely useless in 8 months time. Imagine buying a brand new fantasy army and the finding out a month later that it will no longer be supported. 
I was actually thoroughly enjoying playing fantasy as it is as a break from 40k.


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## Einherjar667

The Irish Commissar said:


> What even more annoying is that GW have not either confirmed or denied anything to do with. What they're doing at the moment is continuing to sell the current fantasy mini and rules even though (if the rumors are true) they're going to be completely useless in 8 months time. Imagine buying a brand new fantasy army and the finding out a month later that it will no longer be supported.
> I was actually thoroughly enjoying playing fantasy as it is as a break from 40k.


As we were discussing earlier in the thread, wait for better rumors before you react so brashly. For all we know, these are terrible miscommunications /or lost in translation. Which is honestly what they sound like to me. I'm in the same boat, and pretty put off by them too, but for all we know, we're getting an awful interpretation of them.

EDIT: I must also say: much easier said than done.


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## Zion

Considering the number of rumors of major upheavals in the game that we've seen before that never panned out I wouldn't go lighting your collections on fire just yet.

They're just rumors. For all we know they're based on something that isn't going to happen that way because it was just a bunch of ideas.

Or maybe it is happening, but it's happening in a way that doesn't invalidate your army anywhere close to the way you're thinking it will. 

Either way conclusion jumping isn't going to help you any. Instead take a deep breath, step back and remember: we don't know what's true, we don't know exactly how it'll work, and until it gets here it doesn't even matter.


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## Einherjar667

Zion said:


> Considering the number of rumors of major upheavals in the game that we've seen before that never panned out I wouldn't go lighting your collections on fire just yet.
> 
> They're just rumors. For all we know they're based on something that isn't going to happen that way because it was just a bunch of ideas.
> 
> Or maybe it is happening, but it's happening in a way that doesn't invalidate your army anywhere close to the way you're thinking it will.
> 
> Either way conclusion jumping isn't going to help you any. Instead take a deep breath, step back and remember: we don't know what's true, we don't know exactly how it'll work, and until it gets here it doesn't even matter.


This is the attitude I'm taking. I sort of see it as.... when Apoc came out for 40k, the rumors could have said "now you can only play 3000+ point games, and must take superheavies in your FOC!" But that's not how it worked out. Hell, maybe this is a specialist game or a special form of WFB that's coming out, and the army downsizing isn't ACTUAL downsizing, but combined army books (which I would almost guarantee). And considering there's no point cap in any of the BRB's, why wouldn't you be able to keep playing big games? We're all just letting our imaginations get carried away.


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## locustgate

Zion said:


> Considering the number of rumors of major upheavals in the game that we've seen before that never panned out I wouldn't go lighting your collections on fire just yet.
> 
> Or maybe it is happening, but it's happening in a way that doesn't invalidate your army anywhere close to the way you're thinking it will.


And then there are rumors of a coming atrocity and everyone says, 'oh it's just a rumor' 'oh they wouldn't do that' and the atrocity occures leaving everyone but the person they threw into an insane asylum scratching their head :nono::shok::scratchhead:..

It reduces the number of armies to six, and bundles dwarves and all 2 human armies into one. and probably bundles VC and TK into one "Undead" army, like olde. It reduces the number of units per army to 6 standard shared, and limited edition others...........that's enough to sell your now useless army and swar off warhammer.


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## Einherjar667

locustgate said:


> And then there are rumors of a coming atrocity and everyone says, 'oh it's just a rumor' 'oh they wouldn't do that' and the atrocity occures leaving everyone but the person they threw into an insane asylum scratching their head :nono::shok::scratchhead:..
> 
> It reduces the number of armies to six, and bundles dwarves and all 2 human armies into one. and probably bundles VC and TK into one "Undead" army, like olde. It reduces the number of units per army to 6 standard shared, and limited edition others...........that's enough to sell your now useless army and swar off warhammer.


So sell off my entire army collection and swear off the whole game cause a rumour scares me? lol, ok, but no.


----------



## locustgate

Einherjar667 said:


> So sell off my entire army collection and swear off the whole game cause a rumour scares me? lol, ok, but no.


No. But be ready to.


----------



## Einherjar667

locustgate said:


> No. But be ready to.


I don't sell my armies, they might be shelved and I might lose interest in the game, but I am not selling them.


----------



## locustgate

Einherjar667 said:


> I don't sell my armies, they might be shelved and I might lose interest in the game, but I am not selling them.


Then get ready to shelve them.


----------



## Zion

I don't remember too many rumor sets like that working out to be true @locusgate.

The last one that came close was 6th edition's "pancake" ruleset that failed to be true and was more likely the initial ideas GW had before they pruned their changes back. Same thing could be happening here too.

Also almost no one currently plays Fantasy and it sure as shit isn't selling. Hell I mean my Beastmen are already shelved so to me there already is nothing to lose.

We don't even know 100% that options are being pruned just because the books are being consolidated. At worst I'd expect Fine cast stuff to get dropped or replaced with newer models until we see otherwise in print from GW.

And even if it's pruned now it doesn't mean it can't come back later, or even get a mini-army book release to support things like running a pure Dwarf army.

Basically it's too early to get your knickers twisted and even majorly supported rumors have failed in the past so until it's in print it's a myth at best and a lie at worst.


----------



## Einherjar667

Seconded. And besides, if these these rumors are true, who says 8th will be bad? Nothing stated beyond some units getting deleted has struck me as crisis inducing


----------



## locustgate

Zion said:


> I don't remember too many rumor sets like that working out to be true @locusgate.
> 
> The last one that came close was 6th edition's "pancake" ruleset that failed to be true and was more likely the initial ideas GW had before they pruned their changes back. Same thing could be happening here too.
> 
> Also almost no one currently plays Fantasy and it sure as shit isn't selling. Hell I mean my Beastmen are already shelved so to me there already is nothing to lose.


And I hope the rumors about the consolidation, limited edition models, and bubble worlds aren't true, but when you see brown clouds that smell like crap on the horizon you should expect a shitstorm.


----------



## venomlust

The shithawks are swoopin' in, Bobandy.


----------



## Brother Cato

I found this stumbling around - 










Look very closely at the Screaming Bells in the background.


----------



## Zion

locustgate said:


> And I hope the rumors about the consolidation, limited edition models, and bubble worlds aren't true, but when you see brown clouds that smell like crap on the horizon you should expect a shitstorm.


They already do limited edition models. Two Space Marine Captains/Chapter Masters and the character models in box sets like Deathstorm prove that already. Doing it with Fantasy won't hurt the game and may help sell campaign boxes. 

Also consolidated armies doesn't prevent you from running pure armies. The End of Times Undead Book doesn't prevent you from building a pure army for Vampire Counts for example. Just because the armies get consolidated doesn't mean the ability to run them solo is changing.

And as I've said: fantasy is basically dead. It hasn't been a major seller since at least 2012 (locally, despite a die hard Fantasy community, 40k outsells it 10:1). It's bloody broken and something major needs to be done. That means we need to stop acting like a bunch of fucking old people who remember the "good old days" and realize how fucking bad it's gotten. If that means the whole damn game needs to be tossed out and reworked into something actually 100% unique instead of being largely a D&D miniature collection made into army game and the rules reworked from the ground up to make it a better game that makes money instead of losing it (because GW puts at least as much of their resources into Fantasy and it's bloody burning a hole in the floor faster than their brick and mortar stores are) then they owe it to themselves, to their stockholders and their customers to do it before they fucking sink themselves.

Fighting change just because it's new and different is fucking stupid. Wait for the rules to come out, get a feel for where the game is going and _then_ decide if it's something you like instead of jumping ship based on hearsay.



Brother Cato said:


> I found this stumbling around -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look very closely at the Screaming Bells in the background.


Interesting. Looks like round bases are possibly in the works after all. They look good, though I'm curious how the movement rules for them may change if they're on round bases.


----------



## locustgate

Zion said:


> They already do limited edition models. Two Space Marine Captains/Chapter Masters and the character models in box sets like Deathstorm prove that already. Doing it with Fantasy won't hurt the game and may help sell campaign boxes.
> 
> Also consolidated armies doesn't prevent you from running pure armies. The End of Times Undead Book doesn't prevent you from building a pure army for Vampire Counts for example. Just because the armies get consolidated doesn't mean the ability to run them solo is changing.
> 
> And as I've said: fantasy is basically dead. It hasn't been a major seller since at least 2012 (locally, despite a die hard Fantasy community, 40k outsells it 10:1). It's bloody broken and something major needs to be done. That means we need to stop acting like a bunch of fucking old people who remember the "good old days" and realize how fucking bad it's gotten. If that means the whole damn game needs to be tossed out and reworked into something actually 100% unique instead of being largely a D&D miniature collection made into army game and the rules reworked from the ground up to make it a better game that makes money instead of losing it (because GW puts at least as much of their resources into Fantasy and it's bloody burning a hole in the floor faster than their brick and mortar stores are) then they owe it to themselves, to their stockholders and their customers to do it before they fucking sink themselves.
> 
> Fighting change just because it's new and different is fucking stupid. Wait for the rules to come out, get a feel for where the game is going and _then_ decide if it's something you like instead of jumping ship based on hearsay.
> 
> 
> Interesting. Looks like round bases are possibly in the works after all. They look good, though I'm curious how the movement rules for them may change if they're on round bases.


Doing it with MOST of your models is down right stupid.

It increases the chances that TK and VC units will look the same and then you have to buy a VCication kit for the low price of $20. The problem is the rumor states that they are......undiversifing the armies making it so I can't tell my VC army apart from a TK. 


> Each new faction has like 3 core units that will always be on the shelf.[.....] non-core models are only available for a limited time (say 6 months to a year)


The current limited edition models aren't a large portion of the game.


So if it sells less then lets just toss everything else and start from scratch. Change is good, tossing everything out and starting over isn't.What if sony said the 'PS5 would be able to play vcr and play ps2 games......but it can play some new games, but you have to register the game within a week after getting it or else you won't be able to play anymore, oh and the new games are sold for a week'.
There's a difference between making changes to bring new players and just tossing everything out and making a new game.


----------



## Einherjar667

Im still looking at it as:

Lower model count to play, something a lot of people wanted

Total fluff advancement, a rarity that has been highly successful with TET

Consolidated army books, i will take this to mean that daemons, warriors and beasts will get one large tomb. Purchasing one book instead of three to play.

The jury is still out on the rules but obviously starting from scratch allows them to work on balance.

And it's going to be very new and interesting. It has just as much a chance of being bad as it does good, so I will choose to save myself the heartache and embrace the good possibilities. 

Oh yeah, and it sounds like chaos is going to win for a fucking change!


----------



## KarnalBloodfist

If GW goes the way of ltd releases the game turns into a game of "he who spends the most wins the most". Especially if there's power creep in the different units that come out. I don't see how GW really makes all that much money on that either. Certain people who can afford to do it will just hoard boxes and boxes of the most powerful/broken limited run stuff and then soak others on ebay for a chance to get them. If you say that won't happen -- how many people stt on unopened boxes of M:tG boosters just to sell off powerful cards at a large profit? WotC doesn't see any of that profit and neither will GW if ltd release is the way they go.

And where does it say in the current rules that you have to play games at 2000pts+? I'm a family man and most of my games are played against other people who also have familial obligations. We usually find ourselves playing games after 9:00pm on a weekday so we have to play smaller games (usually 1000-1500pts) due to time constraints. Does it limit what you can use? Sure it does. But won't the same thing happen in a new edition if they "make it easier" to use smaller armies? Most people play the large games because they want to use a large variety and some of the mechanics (I'm looking at you _Horde_ rule) don't work well at lower levels. Is it really that much easier to play a smaller game in 40K? I find that you're just as limited in small games of 40K as you are in small games of WFB. I play Necrons in 40K and, again, a LOT of small games so most of my armies are just a unit of warriors, a unit of immortals, and then just changing what the other 3 or 4 items in the list are b/w the 5 or 6 other units I have.

Going to all round bases ... that's going to cause a lot of havoc. I don't know about most but I tend to try (try being the key word here) to make pretty bases - multiple materials w/ multiple layers of paint. And I don't use PVA glue, I use super glue when putting my base material on. I was miffed enough when GW changed ungors from 20mm to 25mm and back down to 20mm. I can't tell you how many ungors hit the garbage can because they were broken beyond repair trying to swap bases. Having to rebase MULTIPLE armies?!? ... :ireful2:

As for me for now...I will take it all w/ a grain of salt. I'm really hoping the changes are not so drastic. If they are, well, thanks for nothing GW. I'll be looking for a new fantasy style game. :cray:


----------



## Khorne's Fist

KarnalBloodfist said:


> If GW goes the way of ltd releases the game turns into a game of "he who spends the most wins the most".


Not really. We've already seen a few limited edition minis like the SW lord and BA captain in 40k, but their stats are no way over powered compared to anything you can't already build from their codexes. They are just a gimmick to drive sales of the campaign boxes they come in. I can't see it being any different in WFB.


----------



## locustgate

Khorne's Fist said:


> Not really. We've already seen a few limited edition minis like the SW lord and BA captain in 40k, but their stats are no way over powered compared to anything you can't already build from their codexes. They are just a gimmick to drive sales of the campaign boxes they come in. I can't see it being any different in WFB.


The rumor isn't a 'FEW' it's most minis will be limited edition and their rules are only in box.


----------



## Zion

Fun fact for those looking to break super glue bonds the easiest way: put the model in the freezer for a few hours. It makes the super glue more brittle and it should break more easily.


----------



## venomlust

Einherjar667 said:


> Oh yeah, and it sounds like chaos is going to win for a fucking change!


I want to believe!


----------



## Einherjar667

LE models might just mean the sculpt, not the unit or rules. Just cause you have the LE terminator captain from that ultramarines box last year doesn't mean you have an advantage.


----------



## KarnalBloodfist

The majority of the LE models that most are mentioning are just one-off models that are designed more to be novelties; especially if groups enforce WYSIWIG. I'm talking of making a multitude of different units as ltd release/edition. Do you think GW is going to hit new shiny ltd models w/ the nerf bat? I fully expect many of them to be broken as hell w/ GW's track record of power creep. "New limited release Empire Free Co!" No one is going to be lining up for that. "New limited release elf-unit-of-uber-killiness!"

Not to mention if you're a new player and you don't have access to said killy unit, how fun is going to be to face veterans who have that uber unit? It'd just make it harder for new players to get in if they're always going to be a step behind.


----------



## locustgate

KarnalBloodfist said:


> Not to mention if you're a new player and you don't have access to said killy unit, how fun is going to be to face veterans who have that uber unit? It'd just make it harder for new players to get in if they're always going to be a step behind.


Or those players who don't have enough money to drop on a dime. It's hard enough to play against a group that has a lot of FW models when the only thing from FW you can buy are heads.


----------



## The Irish Commissar

The idea that you have to change your bases is the most stupid thing I've ever heard GW do. From the sounds of it this is not an update this is nearly a brand new game. Round bases, limited addition units not models, units. Fluff is not been updated it's been scraped and rewritten. They'll tie it in somehow but it's going to be completely new. Also bubble marines wtf!


----------



## Einherjar667

This a good example of how the rumor is mutating and becoming less and less accurate and more of an impulsive and overly emotional reiteration.


----------



## locustgate

Einherjar667 said:


> This a good example of how the rumor is mutating and becoming less and less accurate and more of an impulsive and overly emotional reiteration.


No......the rumor has not mutated.



Fenris said:


> -9th Edition to pick up where the ET leaves off in fluff, plus a couple of hundred years or so (to reboot the setting).
> 
> -The Warhammer World gets shattered on a dimensional level during the climax of the ET. No more "map of the Old World" - it's now little bubbles of reality, where pockets of civilisation try desperately to eke a living before the next collision with another bubble, which may be full of Chaos. (To address the problem of "how come my Tomb Kings of Khemri are fighting against Wood Elves from Athel Loren?", not that I get the impression that either of those will still exist, but you get the idea)
> 
> *-New faction... heavily armoured, religious, "good" human warriors fighting with the power of the gods. (Warhammer Space Marines, basically). Karl Franz Ascended seems to be the prototype or precursor for this concept, AFAICT.*
> 
> -*9th edition will have 6 factions*. Model diversity cut in half shelf space. New world and new age so current factions and lore aren't recognizable at all. *Each new faction has like 3 core units that will always be on the shelf. Much faster releases of stuff, mainly characters and special units of 2-5 fancy models (like Morghasts) that have their own rules right in the box, so not dependent on a static army book. Many of the these non-core models are only available for a limited time (say 6 months to a year), so they don't take up shelf space forever and ever. Many existing models are not usable in 9th.
> *
> -We can expect the next edition of Fantasy to throw everything up in the air. The whole End Times move has been to wean people onto a whole new take on the Warhammer world and it's going to start with every army being "chaosified". We can expect army play styles and appearance to change quite dramatically and there will be a whole load of new models being released early on to tie everything together. This has caused quite a stir back at GW HQ as there are a lot of people behind the scenes (some of which are very well known to us) who don't like the changes that have been made. I have also been told that the models due to be released are some of the best to date!
> 
> -Add to that (by my best source so far):
> 
> '9th' [or] whatever is next for fantasy [...] coming 2015 in the summer. The new faction [plus] future releases after this point for five 'existing' factions (which plus this would make six) […] but I think there will be [...] more.


So far the rumor is pretty stable.


----------



## Einherjar667

I stand by what I said. I see nothing definitive about round bases. I don't see the reducto absurdum "bubble marines", i see updated and advanced fluff, not rewritten fluff.


----------



## Vaz

No. It's mutating.

Who has said anything about forcing you to change your bases? 8th Edition and End Times apparently share similarities with this "9th edition" enough so that you can continue to use those rules.

And "bubble marines? Wtf?" What the fuck exactly, as in what the fuck did you read that on?


----------



## Einherjar667

Vaz said:


> No. It's mutating.
> 
> Who has said anything about forcing you to change your bases? 8th Edition and End Times apparently share similarities with this "9th edition" enough so that you can continue to use those rules.
> 
> And "bubble marines? Wtf?" What the fuck exactly, as in what the fuck did you read that on?



Seconded! My post is right before this but the last on the other page so likely to get over looked.

The rumor is becoming reducto absurdum. Not to mention the fluff is being advanced, NOT REWRITTEN.


----------



## locustgate

Einherjar667 said:


> I stand by what I said. I see nothing definitive about round bases. I don't see the reducto absurdum "bubble marines", i see updated and advanced fluff, not rewritten fluff.





Vaz said:


> No. It's mutating.
> 
> Who has said anything about forcing you to change your bases? 8th Edition and End Times apparently share similarities with this "9th edition" enough so that you can continue to use those rules.
> 
> And "bubble marines? Wtf?" What the fuck exactly, as in what the fuck did you read that on?





> -The Warhammer World gets shattered on a dimensional level during the climax of the ET. No more "map of the Old World" - *it's now little bubbles of reality*, where pockets of civilisation try desperately to eke a living before the next collision with another bubble, which may be full of Chaos. (To address the problem of "how come my Tomb Kings of Khemri are fighting against Wood Elves from Athel Loren?", not that I get the impression that either of those will still exist, but you get the idea)
> 
> -New faction... heavily armoured, religious, "good" human warriors fighting with the power of the gods. (Warhammer Space Marines, basically). Karl Franz Ascended seems to be the prototype or precursor for this concept, AFAICT.


They got rid of the warhammer space and replaced it with bubble, instead of inter dimensional.


----------



## Einherjar667

I didn't dispute that... I see no space marines


----------



## Zion

GW is actually more notorious for *not* making people change their bases. Like RT era Terminators on Infantry bases notorious.

I don't see them suddenly changing that here.


----------



## locustgate

Einherjar667 said:


> I didn't dispute that... I see no space marines


Heavily armored god like beings that fight for the Emperor.

Heavily armored god like beings that fight for the Imperium.


----------



## Vaz

To put it bluntly, you're chatting shit.


----------



## Einherjar667

locustgate said:


> Heavily armored god like beings that fight for the Emperor.
> 
> Heavily armored god like beings that fight for the Imperium.



.....so what? Your just trying to bring us down or something at this point.


----------



## locustgate

Einherjar667 said:


> .....so what? Your just trying to bring us down or something at this point.


You said 'I didn't see space marine', I took that as 'I didn't see where space marine came from'. So I said where people get it from.


----------



## Zion

Locus, unless we get magical power armor and they start to magically modify their knights to be more than just human they aren't Space Marine clones.


----------



## Einherjar667

locustgate said:


> You said 'I didn't see space marine', I took that as 'I didn't see where space marine came from'. So I said where people get it from.



I think you're just fucking with me at this point. To be honest.


----------



## The Irish Commissar

What I would see as an update to the fluff would be what happens after the end time. The reason I'm arguing that it's be rewritten is that the world that we used to fight on is now gone. We now fight in bubbles of reality where sometimes bubbles come into contact with other bubbles which means the two armies will now fight it out. That is completely different from what we have ever had before in fantasy.


----------



## The Irish Commissar

New faction... heavily armoured, religious, "good" human warriors fighting with the power of the gods. (Warhammer Space Marines, basically). Karl Franz Ascended seems to be the prototype or precursor for this concept, AFAICT.

Hmmmmm... where have I heard something similar to this. (heavily armoured, religious, "good" human warriors fighting with the power of the gods), this seems to sound alot like Space marines. (Karl Franz Ascended seems to be the prototype or precursor for this concept), I don't no about you guys but this sounds alot like a Primarch to me. It makes sense, GW knows that marines sell well in 40k so.... ''how can we make money from fantasy?, I know lets add fantasy style marines to Warhammer Fantasy''. Just my opinion on it, feel free to disagree


----------



## Vaz

We're understanding the marines bit. But bubble marines? (hehe, butt bubble) is what we're questioning.

Feeling free.


----------



## Zion

I'm still arguing that it doesn't sound like Marines. _Sisters_ maybe (T3, powered by their devotion to their God Emperor, wear heavy armor....), but not Marines.


----------



## Einherjar667

Not to mention no one knows anything about the new fluff save for a few sentences. Get pissed about the fluff changes AFTER you know what they are.


----------



## locustgate

Einherjar667 said:


> Not to mention no one knows anything about the new fluff save for a few sentences. Get pissed about the fluff changes AFTER you know what they are.


And uttering a word can anger some people. It rarely takes much for people to become angry and when it comes to nerds and rumors of something they know/like changing can bring about blood thirst that would make Khorne piss himself.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Zion said:


> I'm still arguing that it doesn't sound like Marines. _Sisters_ maybe (T3, powered by their devotion to their God Emperor, wear heavy armor....), but not Marines.


Yeah, the original rumour did say "like" a fantasy version of SMs, so I'm thinking a new knightly order with access to lots of magic. If there's going to be a Karl Franz Ascended he's going to need some acolytes. 

But the higher than usual level of nerd rage based on unfounded rumours is fun to watch.


----------



## Tawa

*puts underpants on head and sits in the corner* :crazy:


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Tawa said:


> *puts underpants on head and sits in the corner* :crazy:


----------



## venomlust

locustgate said:


> And uttering a word can anger some people. It rarely takes much for people to become angry and when it comes to nerds and rumors of something they know/like changing can bring about blood thirst that would make Khorne piss himself.


I imagine that rage to be a little... a something... a like... a this:

YersIyzsOpc


----------



## The Irish Commissar

I'm not raging but I am deeply upset, I was just starting to like fantasy. Like in fairness Zion and Vaz you both said your not really interested in fantasy at the moment. I'm just hoping it won't be as bad as it sounds. Because it's sounds really bad now.


----------



## locustgate

venomlust said:


> I imagine that rage to be a little... a something... a like... a this:
> 
> YersIyzsOpc


Damn.....haven't seen that in AGES, well not the self-sodomy. Also..........when did he take his clothes off.

That kids needs an old nun, a young nun, and a slut dressed as a nun.


----------



## Zion

I don't get the tantrums honestly. I mean it accomplishes nothing, and just leaves you tired and emotionally drained.

It's not productive and it doesn't help anyone.


----------



## locustgate

Zion said:


> I don't get the tantrums honestly. I mean it accomplishes nothing, and just leaves you tired and emotionally drained.
> 
> It's not productive and it doesn't help anyone.


People need an outlet for their anger.


----------



## Einherjar667

Proactive guessing time! I wonder what the 6 army books will consist of?

New Army

Lizardmen

Ogre Kingdoms

Orcs & Goblins 

Skaven

Dark Elves
High Elves
Wood Elves

Bretonnia
Dwarfs
The Empire(OR this becomes the new army)

Tomb Kings
Vampire Counts

Daemons of Chaos 
Beastmen
Warriors of Chaos

Those are the obvious groupings.


----------



## Zion

People can release anger without stripping to their skivies and beating thselves with a shoe.


----------



## Vaz

1; Humans and Dwarf Survivors
Empire, Bretons, Dwarfs

2; Elves
Wood Elves, High Elves, Dark Elves

3; Chaos
Skaven, Beastmen, Daemons, Warriors of Chaos

4; Undead
Nagash+Vampires and Tomb Kings

5; Forces of the Old Ones
Lizardmen, Ogres, Greenskins

6; Space Marines
Karl Franz, Draigo, few other dudes.


----------



## Tawa

Zion said:


> People can release anger without stripping to their skivies and beating thselves with a shoe.


I was..... unaware of this. Maybe it's time I apologised to the bank manager?


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Vaz said:


> 6; Space Marines
> Karl Franz, Draigo, few other dudes.





Tawa said:


> I was..... unaware of this. Maybe it's time I apologised to the bank manager?


I laughed damn hard at both of these!:biggrin:


----------



## locustgate

Zion said:


> People can release anger without stripping to their skivies and beating thselves with a shoe.


That we can agree and also without sodomizing themselves.



Tawa said:


> I was..... unaware of this. Maybe it's time I apologised to the bank manager?


That poor poor man. :shok:uke:


----------



## Zion

Tawa naked violates the Geneva Convention.


----------



## Tawa

Zion said:


> Tawa naked violates the Geneva Convention.


That's probably just the gas I give off :laugh:


----------



## Asamodai

Einherjar667 said:


> Proactive guessing time! I wonder what the 6 army books will consist of?
> 
> New Army
> 
> Lizardmen
> 
> Ogre Kingdoms
> 
> Orcs & Goblins
> 
> Skaven
> 
> Dark Elves
> High Elves
> Wood Elves
> 
> Bretonnia
> Dwarfs
> The Empire(OR this becomes the new army)
> 
> Tomb Kings
> Vampire Counts
> 
> Daemons of Chaos
> Beastmen
> Warriors of Chaos
> 
> Those are the obvious groupings.


I would bet on the New Army being made up of the remains of the Empire, Brettonia and Dwarves. I be surprised if Karl Franz split from the Empire. I expect Teclis will have a part in the new faction too. You would expect an army of Holy warriors battling against Chaos could use the Incarnate of Light.


----------



## Einherjar667

Indeed, and obviously Brettonia will have a part of it too, considering they BLEED light


----------



## locustgate

Einherjar667 said:


> Indeed, and obviously Brettonia will have a part of it too, considering they BLEED light


Seriously.......this is starting to sound less like warhammer and more like some sweaty nerd's fanfic.


----------



## Einherjar667

locustgate said:


> Seriously.......this is starting to sound less like warhammer and more like some sweaty nerd's fanfic.



What the fuck are you talking about?


----------



## locustgate

Einherjar667 said:


> What the fuck are you talking about?


"considering they BLEED light"


----------



## Einherjar667

locustgate said:


> "considering they BLEED light"



Yes, it is from the End Times: Glottkin. Is there a problem?


----------



## Brother Cato

We interrupt this program to bring you this leak of Thanquol. Mother of gods, do NOT read the comment section. Juggling Nuclear Warheads is less volatile than the comment section there right now.


----------



## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> We interrupt this program to bring you this leak of Thanquol. Mother of gods, do NOT read the comment section. Juggling Nuclear Warheads is less volatile than the comment section there right now.



Um, well.... It IS called the End Times..... yikes....


----------



## Vaz

Reads leak.

Reads spoilers in comments.

Feels happy about moving on from WHF.

Reads rest of comments. 

Forms opinion.

Septic little cuntys.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Well I'm not going to be buying any fantasy again now until I know what this means for the game.


----------



## Einherjar667

I personally think it's a faux ending for the Lizardmen, and they'll show up at the 11th hour to save the day, or at least, save what's left of the shattered world.

And if Lustria had Morrslieb slam into it, won't there be warpstone EVERYWHERE now? Chaos Lizardmen anyone?


----------



## Words_of_Truth

What gets me is this new lore is damaging the product more than it is helping. Why will people buy stuff when they know so much is changing and it looks like armies are being phased out, they need to make a statement to reassure gamers of this because it's super worrying.


----------



## Einherjar667

Words_of_Truth said:


> What gets me is this new lore is damaging the product more than it is helping. Why will people buy stuff when they know so much is changing and it looks like armies are being phased out, they need to make a statement to reassure gamers of this because it's super worrying.


I know, I have halted my Fantasy endeavors totally, End Times and all. I don't want anything that can't be used later on.

Their radio silence really is kind of stupid.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I got some stuff before christmas, two boxes of TK chariots and a Screaming skull catapult. Thinking of going and getting a refund tomorrow.


----------



## Einherjar667

Words_of_Truth said:


> I got some stuff before christmas, two boxes of TK chariots and a Screaming skull catapult. Thinking of going and getting a refund tomorrow.


Ya, I think next on my list of WFB purchases will simply just be the next BRB. Til then, Im pleased with 40k.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I'm definitely going to ask for my money back, not opened them yet, I knew they'd screw us over, was warning my friends for ages and they've done it.


----------



## Einherjar667

Words_of_Truth said:


> I'm definitely going to ask for my money back, not opened them yet, I knew they'd screw us over, was warning my friends for ages and they've done it.


TK seem to be safe, no?


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Einherjar667 said:


> TK seem to be safe, no?


Not really they are now VCs. I hate the whole lore now, they're phasing out armies, TKs won't be a single army any more they are being pushed into other ones, same with the elves. They are ripping the fluff apart and the outcome doesn't look promising, it's like they are minimising it so they can spend less time on the game in future so they can churn out more space marine stuff.


----------



## locustgate

Einherjar667 said:


> TK seem to be safe, no?


If the rumors are true only 3 of the TK models are going to be usable afterwords, I think most likely Skeletons,horsemen, and tomb guard.



> -9th edition will have 6 factions. Model diversity cut in half shelf space. New world and new age so current factions and lore aren't recognizable at all. Each new faction has like *3 core units that will always be on the shelf. *Much faster releases of stuff, mainly characters and special units of 2-5 fancy models (like Morghasts) that have their own rules right in the box, so not dependent on a static army book. Many of the these non-core models are only available for a limited time (say 6 months to a year), so they don't take up shelf space forever and ever. Many existing models are not usable in 9th.





Words_of_Truth said:


> Not really they are now VCs. I hate the whole lore now, they're phasing out armies, TKs won't be a single army any more they are being pushed into other ones, same with the elves. They are ripping the fluff apart and the outcome doesn't look promising, it's like they are minimising it so they can spend less time on the game in future so they can churn out more space marine stuff.


VC player here, your not alone my undead (although disgusting mummified corpse) brother.


----------



## Einherjar667

I'd more so assume they're breaking the game down as basically as they can to rebuild it with better balance (or something). I am beginning to think we're lucky this is even warhammer fantasy at all.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Well, they'll soon have to say something if people start returing items or stop buying fantasy. I can't believe how much I've gone from loving the idea of this restructuring to absolutely hating it.


----------



## Einherjar667

Words_of_Truth said:


> Well, they'll soon have to say something if people start returing items or stop buying fantasy. I can't believe how much I've gone from loving the idea of this restructuring to absolutely hating it.



They really should say something. i hate the rumour system, its so stupid


----------



## Brother Cato

If it's any consolation to the above, I heard Bretonnia got eaten by Skaven in the new book. So just so everyone knows my personal favourite army is also one of the casualties.


----------



## Loli

Brother Cato said:


> If it's any consolation to the above, I heard Bretonnia got eaten by Skaven in the new book. So just so everyone knows my personal favourite army is also one of the casualties.


Awwww, don't say that. I've been buying Brets for the past few years with the intention of being ready for a new book and edition should it ever happen. Guess if that's true then what's left of Bret will be merged in with another one. 

What I don't get about the Lizardmen, didn't they update them and give them new models a year or so ago? Even then I thought them somewhat popular? So if they are removing them I don't get it, surely you just remove say Brets?

Story wise though there is every chance the floating rock lizards will save they day or they will re-emerge in 9th. 

If they wanted to do this shrinking of the armies then I think they should have maybe released a list of the new version armies, then in part marketed End Times as a 'this is how we got there' kind of thing. This whole rumour thing in instance like this just hurts the game. Having nothing but rumour of which to Base your actions upon is stupid.


----------



## Brother Cato

Loli said:


> Awwww, don't say that. I've been buying Brets for the past few years with the intention of being ready for a new book and edition should it ever happen. Guess if that's true then what's left of Bret will be merged in with another one.


I got confirmation that yes, that is Canon this morning. The manager at my FLGS spent the whole of yesterday reading a copy of Thanquol, and he told me about this part.

I guess then I'mma gonna have to go with whatever Karl Franz and Valten are up to. Dissapointing yes, but don't tell me the removal of Bretonnians was something nobody saw coming.



Loli said:


> What I don't get about the Lizardmen, didn't they update them and give them new models a year or so ago? Even then I thought them somewhat popular? So if they are removing them I don't get it, surely you just remove say Brets?


The kicker I hear is one of the Dwarf fatalities got a Model last year as well. Also the Dwarves themselves are only 11 Months old - not even a full year and all this is happening to them.



Loli said:


> Story wise though there is every chance the floating rock lizards will save they day or they will re-emerge in 9th.


This is why I'm not *TOO* broken up about Lizardmen. There's always the chance they'll get to come back.



Loli said:


> If they wanted to do this shrinking of the armies then I think they should have maybe released a list of the new version armies, then in part marketed End Times as a 'this is how we got there' kind of thing. This whole rumour thing in instance like this just hurts the game. Having nothing but rumour of which to Base your actions upon is stupid.


And this is why while one of my New Year's Resolutions was to start WHFB, I'mma gonna be holding off for a while. The manager at my FLGS is of the mindset that some of the rumors could be evidence of a Skirmish Game spin off instead (a la Mordheim) to replace the Lord of the Rings licence (which is going to expire soon), but again - just a theory at this point.


----------



## locustgate

Brother Cato said:


> If it's any consolation to the above, I heard Bretonnia got eaten by Skaven in the new book. So just so everyone knows my personal favourite army is also one of the casualties.


Welcome to the End Times......were everyone loses their army. My Vampire Counts went from Vampire Counts to Vampire Slaves in Nagesh's army. I regret asking for warhammer for christmas.



Brother Cato said:


> And this is why while one of my New Year's Resolutions was to start WHFB, I'mma gonna be holding off for a while. The manager at my FLGS is of the mindset that some of the rumors could be evidence of a Skirmish Game spin off instead (a la Mordheim) to replace the Lord of the Rings licence (which is going to expire soon), but again - just a theory at this point.


I told my group they were going to get rid of warhammer after end times and my group laughed at me and said I was crazy.........I am crazy, but it's starting to look like I'm right.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

People seem to be forgetting that the rumours also state that all current armies will be fully playable in any new edition. If you give this as much credence as the rest of the rumours people are screaming over, nobody is going to lose out. I really can't see them saying that Lizard men, dwarves or Brettonians are still playable, but as far as future releases are concerned, they are dead to us. It's one thing to let a single small, not hugely popular faction to just fade away like Sisters of Battle in 40k, it's another thing to delete popular ones that have only recently been updated.

As an aside, I find it intriguing that so far it's been claimed from various sources that Skaven will be responsible for killing off three seperate factions. Are they the coming power in WFB?


----------



## Einherjar667

Khorne's Fist said:


> People seem to be forgetting that the rumours also state that all current armies will be fully playable in any new edition. If you give this as much credence as the rest of the rumours people are screaming over, nobody is going to lose out. I really can't see them saying that Luzard men, dwarves or Brettonians are still playable, but as far as future releases are concerned, they are dead to us. It's one thing to let a single small, not hugely popular faction to just fade away like Sisters of Battle in 40k, it's another thing to delete popular ones that have only recently been updated.



And to go one further, me'thinks ALL the armies are going to experience their reckoning next book. If the Skaven can rock the Lizardmen, what is Archaon's army going to do?


----------



## Vaz

Anyone noticed Grimgor anywhere?

I seriously want GW to do a Martin Freeman to all the fans of End Times










have Grimgor headbutt Archaon, then walk off into the sunset, and then roll it all back to the start of 8th edition.


----------



## bitsandkits

Vaz said:


> Anyone noticed Grimgor anywhere?
> 
> I seriously want GW to do a Martin Freeman to all the fans of End Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> have Grimgor headbutt Archaon, then walk off into the sunset, and then roll it all back to the start of 8th edition.


Until now i wasnt sure what i wanted to happen, but now i want this too ^


----------



## MidnightSun

I want End Times to happen, and then replace LotR (the license for which will surely be ending soon and GW can stop losing money on it) with a post-apocalyptic Warhammer-setting skirmish game, while keeping Warhammer Fantasy as a game to represent battles in the Warhammer World before it got wrecked. That'd be the ideal, as well as being a business-smart way of getting onto the ever-more-popular skirmish game scene without having to spend a lot of money on new moulds for an entirely new set of miniatures (because even if the game flopped, you could keep the models as Heroes/Lords/characters for WFB). I imagine that would be partially due to the surprising popularity of Kill-Team, and of games like Infinity and Warmachine. My only worry is that GW might delete WFB to make room for it, which would be idiotic.


----------



## Asamodai

Khorne's Fist said:


> As an aside, I find it intriguing that so far it's been claimed from various sources that Skaven will be responsible for killing off three seperate factions. Are they the coming power in WFB?


There's a lot of clear comparisons between various 40k and Fantasy armies. I always considered Skaven to be the Fantasy equivalent of Tyranids, so their ability to utterly devastate anyone fits with me.


----------



## MidnightSun

Anyone else think they missed a trick with Lizardmen in the End Times?

What keelled de lizard-men?

*De Ice Ayge!*


----------



## Words_of_Truth

The more I hear the more I want sell every fantasy thing I have, I've lost all hope in it now.


----------



## Einherjar667

Lets not go back into the selling models discussion. 9th ed isn't due out for a while and it's inane to wax and wane back and forth from that.


----------



## Uveron

WOW. 

This is the best The Echo-Chamber Effect I have seen in an age... In fact I this may be the best nerdom example I have seen in a very long time. 

I look forward to playing my Vampire Counts after they finish the End-Times..


----------



## Brother Cato

Uveron said:


> This is the best The Echo-Chamber Effect I have seen in an age... In fact I this may be the best nerdom example I have seen in a very long time.


Echo Chamber Effect...?


----------



## Uveron

Brother Cato said:


> Echo Chamber Effect...?


The Process where one person says something speculative and they another later in the discussion ends up using it as the 'truth'. The longer the conversation takes place and the more places its talked about the more the Echos are seen as truths.


----------



## Brother Cato

Uveron said:


> The Process where one person says something speculative and they another later in the discussion ends up using it as the 'truth'. The longer the the more places its talked about the more the Echos become seen as truths.


I see. Seems to sound about right.


----------



## Einherjar667

Uveron said:


> The Process where one person says something speculative and they another later in the discussion ends up using it as the 'truth'. The longer the the more places its talked about the more the Echos become seen as truths.


Which is exactly what this thread has descended into, a nightmarish game of telephone where GW is showing up at your house to rip your models off their square bases, jam them sloppily onto round ones, then stake, burn, and smash the remains of the models they have decided are now longer valid, then they grab half your bank account and shove some alleged LE models into your hands, and on their way out the door, they go out of business.

Cause some guy on the internet said so.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Uveron said:


> WOW.
> 
> This is the best The Echo-Chamber Effect I have seen in an age... In fact I this may be the best nerdom example I have seen in a very long time.
> 
> I look forward to playing my Vampire Counts after they finish the End-Times..


Perhaps GW should come out with a statement then to calm people down, they'd do it if their stock value was in danger due to rumours.


----------



## Uveron

Words_of_Truth said:


> Perhaps GW should come out with a statement then to calm people down, they'd do it if their stock value was in danger due to rumours.


Why? 

Iam not saying they have a plan, but this sort of thing builds hype and will drive sales up, when people realize they can play. But they don't come out with statements, its never been the way the company works. It will not change now..


----------



## Einherjar667

Words_of_Truth said:


> Perhaps GW should come out with a statement then to calm people down, they'd do it if their stock value was in danger due to rumours.


Plus, what they would be doing is explaining away all the rampant fan speculation that is causing the buzz. the rumours themselves have been shocking, but the fan speculation and apocalyptic attitude is what is driving everyone mad. Companies usually don't feel obligated to come out with "everybody calm down and let us reassure you" statements, cause not only does that sound like they are making a mistake/lack confidence in their decisions, but it simply makes the company look bad.


----------



## Brother Cato

Einherjar667 said:


> Which is exactly what this thread has descended into, a nightmarish game of telephone where GW is showing up at your house to rip your models off their square bases, jam them sloppily onto round ones, then stake, burn, and smash the remains of the models they have decided are now longer valid, then they grab half your bank account and shove some alleged LE models into your hands, and on their way out the door, they go out of business.
> 
> Cause some guy on the internet said so.


Unfortunately it's probably going to stay that way until some new information starts arriving.

Or not.


----------



## Loli

Einherjar667 said:


> Which is exactly what this thread has descended into, a nightmarish game of telephone where GW is showing up at your house to rip your models off their square bases, jam them sloppily onto round ones, then stake, burn, and smash the remains of the models they have decided are now longer valid, then they grab half your bank account and shove some alleged LE models into your hands, and on their way out the door, they go out of business.
> 
> Cause some guy on the internet said so.


Last time I checked that was happening, don't know why you seem to think it isn't.


----------



## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> Unfortunately it's probably going to stay that way until some new information starts arriving.
> 
> Or not.


It will, the gestalt of the internet gets caught up in itself and takes a while to slow down. We will know when the next ET books drops.

I almost guarantee the Lizardmen show up to mitigate Archaon's destruction of the Warhammer world, and thus creating said bubbles. What other race has the power to do that? I just can't imagine the Lizardmen, the creations of the old ones, not playing a major role in the final battle against Chaos. they ARE anti-chaos, and it's very clear that the humans, Dwarfs, undead, O&G, ogres, etc. are going to need the help.


----------



## Einherjar667

Loli said:


> Last time I checked that was happening, don't know why you seem to think it isn't.


uh, no.


----------



## Brother Cato

Einherjar667 said:


> It will, the gestalt of the internet gets caught up in itself and takes a while to slow down. We will know when the next ET books drops.
> 
> I almost guarantee the Lizardmen show up to mitigate Archaon's destruction of the Warhammer world, and thus creating said bubbles. What other race has the power to do that? I just can't imagine the Lizardmen, the creations of the old ones, not playing a major role in the final battle against Chaos. they ARE anti-chaos, and it's very clear that the humans, Dwarfs, undead, O&G, ogres, etc. are going to need the help.


Well in all honesty, IF (big if given we know little to nothing about 9th at this point, and won't be seeing more accurate rumors until the End Times...end) the Lizardmen got "squatted", there's at least a backdoor for them to be reintroduced.

That cannot be said for the Bretonnians. *STRANGE ISN'T IT?*


----------



## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> Well in all honesty, IF (big if given we know little to nothing about 9th at this point, and won't be seeing more accurate rumors until the End Times...end) the Lizardmen got "squatted", there's at least a backdoor for them to be reintroduced.
> 
> That cannot be said for the Bretonnians. *STRANGE ISN'T IT?*


There was chatter that not all Bretonnians fought in the battle of Altdorf, so there's supposedly some leftover.

Has the fate of their country been spoken of at all? I only got as far as Glottkin.


----------



## Brother Cato

Einherjar667 said:


> There was chatter that not all Bretonnians fought in the battle of Altdorf, so there's supposedly some leftover.
> 
> Has the fate of their country been spoken of at all? I only got as far as Glottkin.


I am informed that in Thanquol, Bretonnia got eaten by Skaven. This was confirmed by my FLGS manager, who pretty much has read it back to front by this point.

FYI, he liked it X3


----------



## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> I am informed that in Thanquol, Bretonnia got eaten by Skaven. This was confirmed by my FLGS manager, who pretty much has read it back to front by this point.
> 
> FYI, he liked it X3


I was very tempted to buy it, as horrifying as it is seeing the Old World and New World destroyed.... it's morbidly awesome as a story.

However, I forsee Archaon showing up and ruining a lot of peoples home turf.


----------



## kickboxerdog

Brother Cato said:


> I am informed that in Thanquol, Bretonnia got eaten by Skaven. This was confirmed by my FLGS manager, who pretty much has read it back to front by this point.
> 
> FYI, he liked it X3


any other info regarding bretonnia or there returned king , seems a strange bit of fluff to introduce in glotkin and then he vanishes/ dies.


----------



## Brother Cato

kickboxerdog said:


> any other info regarding bretonnia or there returned king , seems a strange bit of fluff to introduce in glotkin and then he vanishes/ dies.


It is, but other sources asides him are saying that Bretonnia got eaten. So no more Bretonnia and no chance of coming back, unlike the Lizardmen. I think Bretonnia got the harsher deal here.

Giles Le Breton might be a special character for these new "Good aligned WOC" supposedly on the way though.*



Einherjar667 said:


> I was very tempted to buy it, as horrifying as it is seeing the Old World and New World destroyed.... it's morbidly awesome as a story.
> 
> However, I forsee Archaon showing up and ruining a lot of peoples home turf.


Kinda already happening. Middlehiem is supposedly gone, thanks to Archaeon and Fateweaver tag teaming it. One of the Illustrations in the book (which I've looked around for online but can't find right now) supposedly shows Archaeon with Ghal Marz hanging over him while he's sat on a throne, which brings only grim things to mind.

*This part here be purely speculative and not what is actually going on.


----------



## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> It is, but other sources asides him are saying that Bretonnia got eaten. So no more Bretonnia and no chance of coming back, unlike the Lizardmen. I think Bretonnia got the harsher deal here.
> 
> Giles Le Breton might be a special character for these new "Good aligned WOC" supposedly on the way though.*
> 
> 
> 
> Kinda already happening. Middlehiem is supposedly gone, thanks to Archaeon and Fateweaver tag teaming it. One of the Illustrations in the book (which I've looked around for online but can't find right now) supposedly shows Archaeon with Ghal Marz hanging over him while he's sat on a throne, which brings only grim things to mind.
> 
> *This part here be purely speculative and not what is actually going on.


I hope, if we do see a human alliance, that the cavalry units are represented as Bretonnians. That's at least what I am imagining.

That picture sounds awesome, I feel guilty as a WoC player, that chaos is getting many victories. I do forsee the series ending with Archaon getting vengeance exacted upon him though. I am imagining a Karl Franz, Mazdamundi tag team.


----------



## Brother Cato

Einherjar667 said:


> I hope, if we do see a human alliance, that the cavalry units are represented as Bretonnians. That's at least what I am imagining.
> 
> That picture sounds awesome, I feel guilty as a WoC player, that chaos is getting many victories. I do forsee the series ending with Archaon getting vengeance exacted upon him though. I am imagining a Karl Franz, Mazdamundi tag team.


Alliance will probably be bigger. Best guess around the usual spot is Empire, Bretts and Dwarves. Or maybe Empire and Dwarves now that Bretonnia is kinda no more.


----------



## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> Alliance will probably be bigger. Best guess around the usual spot is Empire, Bretts and Dwarves. Or maybe Empire and Dwarves now that Bretonnia is kinda no more.


Yeah, I meant an alliance of all the "order" factions that aren't Lizardmen and elves. The rumoured books, if we are imagining them correctly, will probably group together the forces of good left on the old world.


----------



## Brother Cato

Einherjar667 said:


> Yeah, I meant an alliance of all the "order" factions that aren't Lizardmen and elves. The rumoured books, if we are imagining them correctly, will probably group together the forces of good left on the old world.


Which could be Archaon. We already have a Legions of Chaos list, so why not?


----------



## Words_of_Truth

The way it's going reminds me of Warhammer Age of Reckoning, when you had the Forces of Order and Forces of Disorder and then specific classes from each race.


----------



## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> Which could be Archaon. We already have a Legions of Chaos list, so why not?


I would almost expect that, considering the shambles of good are all that's left to fight off Archaon.


----------



## Brother Cato

More incoming conjecture, folks.


----------



## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> More incoming conjecture, folks.


Aha, so it's all coming together.


----------



## Vaz

Getting sick of clickbait as the comment says. If it's worth posting a link too, then take the time to post the information into your actual post; spoilering if necessary.

I'd rather not add to that cesspool of degenerate shitknuckled coathanger dodgers in any way.


----------



## Einherjar667

Not sure if any of you guys are following the monster thread on Warseer. One of their more reliable (most reliable?) rumour guys is hinting at.... well, I'll quote what he has stated. 

Harry on Warseer has said:



> So ...what if what we are talking about here is NOT 9th edition.
> What if this is a different game .... a skirmish game like Mordheim? (Except firmly set in a post End times apocalyptic warhammer World) .... (A boxed game followed up by a number of releases to add additional factions).
> 
> What if 8th edition carries on unchanged as the mass fantasy combat system?
> 
> What if one thing has nothing to do with the other???





> What if the releases for 8th edition carried on unchanged? If all remaining army book projects were completed?





> What if people has mis-interpreted the rumours?
> What if they heard just six factions and assumed that MUST mean huge chunks of the range being dropped.
> Mordheim only have about six warbands when it started?


It's unclear if he's just BSing, or if he's actually hinting at something, but they seem to be taking what he says rather seriously.

Here's the thread: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showt...er-And-Now-For-Something-Completely-Different


----------



## Brother Cato

A lot of conjecture here, but it's about what my FLGS Manager has been saying.

Also, it IS Warseer we're talking about here.


----------



## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> A lot of conjecture here, but it's about what my FLGS Manager has been saying.
> 
> Also, it IS Warseer we're talking about here.


There were rumours of a Mordheim-esque game coming back later on, but I assumed that was the computer game we saw.

I'm not familiar with Warseer's rep other than being the nexus of nerdrage. But they seem to hold this Harry fella, and Darnok, in very high regard, and give them a near A+ rating on their rumor accuracy. Which implies they do NOT have a history of misleading people.


----------



## Brother Cato

Einherjar667 said:


> There were rumours of a Mordheim-esque game coming back later on, but I assumed that was the computer game we saw.


Could be. Again, a lot of this sounds like my FLGS manager speculating. Who does not have any insider knowledge of GW at all.


----------



## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> Could be. Again, a lot of this sounds like my FLGS manager speculating. Who does not have any insider knowledge of GW at all.


Would the End Times series really all lead up to a Mordheim-like game? Or would that be an anti-climax. It sort of seems underwhelming for the Warhammer apocalypse to lead up to a skirmish game.

Unless it lends itself to my theory. That 9th ed will include rules for both huge army battles, and skirmish battles.


----------



## Brother Cato

Einherjar667 said:


> Would the End Times series really all lead up to a Mordheim-like game? Or would that be an anti-climax. It sort of seems underwhelming for the Warhammer apocalypse to lead up to a skirmish game.


Kind of how people look at this in my area. Honestly, I'd kind of include myself in that camp.


----------



## Zion

The thing with Harry is that, at least for Fantasy rumors, he tends to be REALLY dead on (like he's batting at least a 95%+) which is why he gets a lot of cred.

The only thing that throws me off is how the Mordhiem-like game fails to explain this:









If 8th is plugging along as normal, why are those on round bases?


----------



## Einherjar667

Zion said:


> The thing with Harry is that, at least for Fantasy rumors, he tends to be REALLY dead on (like he's batting at least a 95%+) which is why he gets a lot of cred.
> 
> The only thing that throws me off is how the Mordhiem-like game fails to explain this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If 8th is plugging along as normal, why are those on round bases?


And doesn't it sound like Harry is dropping intentional hints? Not so much personal speculation, but that he's offering us a bone.

And

That is certainly the confusion I'm having. Those models usually go in big mobs of rats, right? Maybe there's new rules for certain models in 9th ed, like, warmachines can't go in other units anymore, or something.

to clarify, the original rumour didn't mention anything about bases, right?


----------



## Zion

Those models are _pushed_ by big mobs of rats which is why the round bases really make no sense currently. Without the rats the models normally can't move. So if it's 8th as normal those models are immobile. Also they have no arcs like WFB models have currently.

And I don't remember if it was in the original rumors, or just early rumors, but round bases were definitely a rumor from early on.


----------



## MidnightSun

The Plague Furnace totally looks photoshopped onto a round base - that, or it's been painted seperately then stuck on top of the basing material with no glue marks or anything.

The rumours have really killed my desire to play Fantasy at the moment though, I want confirmation either way.


----------



## Einherjar667

Zion said:


> Those models are _pushed_ by big mobs of rats which is why the round bases really make no sense currently. Without the rats the models normally can't move. So if it's 8th as normal those models are immobile. Also they have no arcs like WFB models have currently.
> 
> And I don't remember if it was in the original rumors, or just early rumors, but round bases were definitely a rumor from early on.


So with those models, square bases are the obvious solution to how to put them on the table. They'd just be weird if you had a bunch of circle based rats behind them.

Perhaps those models are on round bases for no flippin reason. GW does odd things all the time.


----------



## Zion

Einherjar667 said:


> So with those models, square bases are the obvious solution to how to put them on the table. They'd just be weird if you had a bunch of circle based rats behind them.
> 
> Perhaps those models are on round bases for no flippin reason. GW does odd things all the time.


They do odd things, but they very rarely do odd things for no reason. Those were definitely put on those bases for a reason (as the photo that made it into the physical WD only shows part of models, and not the lower halves with the bases), so it wasn't done to tease the fans, the only thing I can guess is that we're going to see something that involves them needing round bases.

And it'd be weird for us looking at it from a perspective of being used to seeing them on square bases, but at the same time I can mentally see it and it doesn't look horrible either. It's just different.

Either way we'll know more in the coming months, and I just thought Harry's statements seemed odd considering the photo.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Einherjar667 said:


> But they seem to hold this Harry fella, and Darnok, in very high regard


No idea about Darnok, but if Harry posts something, he generally knows more then he is saying and is almost always correct to some degree (dates and rumours are a bit like metaphors and cheese)


----------



## Einherjar667

Zion said:


> They do odd things, but they very rarely do odd things for no reason. Those were definitely put on those bases for a reason (as the photo that made it into the physical WD only shows part of models, and not the lower halves with the bases), so it wasn't done to tease the fans, the only thing I can guess is that we're going to see something that involves them needing round bases.
> 
> And it'd be weird for us looking at it from a perspective of being used to seeing them on square bases, but at the same time I can mentally see it and it doesn't look horrible either. It's just different.
> 
> Either way we'll know more in the coming months, and I just thought Harry's statements seemed odd considering the photo.


Indeed, it would be an odd thing for them to be aloof about. I do feel like they're doing a decent job easing us into the change, despite the mindless internet rabble that's currently frothing. When you subtract the fallacies that have been perpetuated, the transition has been VERY graceful, so a photo of round bases is par for the course, and shouldn't alarm anyone.

I remain optimistic, I am a big WarmaHordes fan, and love the architecture of how armies work in that system, so if fantasy went a similar route, I'd honestly not complain at all.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

On the one hand I'm dreading the idea our usual game is ruined on the other I can see potential in a fresh start.


----------



## Zion

To steal a post I made elsewhere regarding Fantasy:



> I think GW is watching the money coming from WFB circling down the drain and the line has probably been running in the red for some time. Add in the CHS which proved they had a lot of stuff that was just too generic to protect and I think we have all the right ingredients to lead to a drastic change to try and save the game before they are forced to kill it completely.
> 
> Yes, this is a thing that angers a lot of veteran players, but how often are veteran players actually buying anything for WFB? Locally it's only when a release comes out and then it's just the rulebook, and maybe some of the new kits. There are little to no new players joining the game anymore because starting an army is as expensive, if not more expensive than starting a Sisters army, so when an old player leaves there is no money coming in to replace them.
> 
> The game is dying because GW tried to pander to veterans and collectors and have priced out everyone else by requiring huge model counts to even start an army. Could they just update things with a new edition and hope it starts to draw people in? Sure. But look at how much discussion is generating. I mean we've only had the smallest shreds of rumors on what the lore alone is doing and the smallest hinting of rules and we're at 35 pages and counting.
> 
> Sure, GW might lose some money from veteran players (though with rumors saying the rules will support a play style similar to 8th edition means that they could still use the rulebook even if they don't want to use new stuff or follow the new lore), but a drastic change like this is generating discussion and in turn will generate interest by newer players and may be the kind of shot in the arm the game needs to bring people back to WFB.
> 
> Are people going to be mad? Sure. People are always mad when things change in a different direction than they expect or want (I expect a LOT of rage when Star Wars Episode VII releases for just that reason), but if this helps the game in the long run then a few pissed off people now is worth it.
> 
> Worst case is this seals WFB's fate and they kill the game sooner than they would now, best case is it starts to grow a community again and the game stops running in the red all the time.


----------



## Firewolf

Zion said:


> The thing with Harry is that, at least for Fantasy rumors, he tends to be REALLY dead on (like he's batting at least a 95%+) which is why he gets a lot of cred.
> 
> The only thing that throws me off is how the Mordhiem-like game fails to explain this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If 8th is plugging along as normal, why are those on round bases?


>> Not having a dig here, and its not just you, but if round bases are gonna be the next thing, why has no-one mentioned that Thanquol and Bone-ripper are still on a square/rectangular base. Could be that who-ever built the plague-furnace mini thought they looked better on a round base. I huvnae commented on the rumours, but people getting their panties in a twist over something that aint happening for another 4-6 months just feels a bit stupid to me. As i said though Zion, not a dig at you buddy.:victory:

>> Also, all the new Skaven stuff has been released on square bases too.


----------



## Firewolf

>> The same shite stories banged about when 40k went to 6th ed. I just dont get why folks get so worked up over rumours. Call Gw shite when We find out exactly what the story is, not 5 months or whatever before the changes really happen. Peeps need to calm down.


----------



## Vaz

>> Perhaps because Fantasy is Fantasy and Fantasy is square base? 'Eavy metal painters don't tend to fuck up and put models on bases they're supplied with when they're showcasing official products.


----------



## Brother Cato

Vaz said:


> >> Perhaps because Fantasy is Fantasy and Fantasy is square base? 'Eavy metal painters don't tend to fuck up and put models on bases they're supplied with when they're showcasing official products.


Just to add onto Vaz's point, it could be because Thanquol is the model they want everyone to look at and pray they'll ignore the Screaming Bells because LOOKIT'SASHINEHNEWTHANQUOLMODEL? So for now it makes sense to continue to promote Square Bases, and then switch Bases when 9th drops.

Which probably means the 'Eavy Metal team has a shitton of rebasing to do as well.


----------



## iamtheeviltwin

Zion said:


> The thing with Harry is that, at least for Fantasy rumors, he tends to be REALLY dead on (like he's batting at least a 95%+) which is why he gets a lot of cred.
> 
> The only thing that throws me off is how the Mordhiem-like game fails to explain this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If 8th is plugging along as normal, why are those on round bases?


If 8th is going to continue, Skaven will be getting a new book (as theirs is still from 7ed), That could mean Screaming Bells could be converted to warmachines or to a random movement monster. Warmachines are not required to be on square bases (or even on bases at all). There are already a number of other monsters/units in WFB that are on round bases because of their strange rules.

(See Mangler Squigs for example)


----------



## Einherjar667

iamtheeviltwin said:


> If 8th is going to continue, Skaven will be getting a new book (as theirs is still from 7ed), That could mean Screaming Bells could be converted to warmachines or to a random movement monster. Warmachines are not required to be on square bases (or even on bases at all). There are already a number of other monsters/units in WFB that are on round bases because of their strange rules.
> 
> 
> 
> (See Mangler Squigs for example)



This is actually quite a valid point


----------



## Brother Cato

I'mma gonna let you finish this discussion, but right now we've had another stirring about the next book. Source is Anonymous, so take with copious amounts of Salt.



an anonymous source on Faeit 212 said:


> Last weekend in February for the last Endtimes book
> 2 Hardcover books 248pages
> First book has picture of Archaon on his fiery steed charging straight at you with flaming sword held to the side
> Second book shows the Archaon model in a very similar pose, but with the Steed's head turned slightly towards the right.


----------



## Zion

Huh. Is one a painting book perhaps?


----------



## Words_of_Truth

One is lore and the other is rules like the others?


----------



## Brother Cato

Words_of_Truth said:


> One is lore and the other is rules like the others?


That would be my best guess. Seems Anon got a look at the Cover.


----------



## The Irish Commissar

Regarding the picture of the round Bases I brought up on a youtube channel and from their opinion they believe it was just for painting and looks but I suppose we'll see.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

So the whole End Times thing is going to go off without any input from the greenskins? I know it's all "chaos versus order" but I find that hard to believe. Fluff wise one if the largest factions cannot be a bystander in something like this.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Khorne's Fist said:


> So the whole End Times thing is going to go off without any input from the greenskins? I find that hard to believe.


Skarsnik popped up with a horde just.


----------



## Einherjar667

Khorne's Fist said:


> So the whole End Times thing is going to go off without any input from the greenskins? I find that hard to believe.


there's still one more book, and they've featured every army in each previous book. Going by that, they HAVE to be the major opponent of Archaon in this last book.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Einherjar667 said:


> there's still one more book, and they've featured every army in each previous book. Going by that, they HAVE to be the major opponent of Archaon in this last book.


But don't the rumours say He goes up against Valtan and the Empire?


----------



## Einherjar667

Khorne's Fist said:


> But don't the rumours say He goes up against Valtan and the Empire?


I'm imagining it's going to be quite a few armies, but what better event than Greenskins and Order allying against Chaos? Remember, they made a big point of talking about just how huge Archaons army was. MASSIVE compared to the Glottkins, and that wrecked three major cities.


----------



## Brother Cato

The rumors don't stop flying folks.



An anonymous source on Faeit 212 said:


> Tyrion Lives, and has returned from the dead.
> 
> Listed as the Council of Incarnates in the new book
> 
> Malekith
> Alarielle
> Caradryan
> Tyrion
> Balthasar Gelt
> The Emperor
> Nagash


I don't know about you, but I'm still not sure about Balthasar being the Incarnate of Metal. I mean didn't he trade his Metal Magic for Necromancy a while back?


----------



## venomlust

The old "kill-off-major-characters-only-to-reincarnate-them-more-powerful-than-you-can-ever-imagine-soon-after-to-mitigate-the-nerd-rage" trick. :laugh::crazy::nono:

Dead elves should stay dead. Unless they're necrophiled -- er, raised from the dead to butcher their living kin.


----------



## Asamodai

I'm not putting too much faith in that list. For one, we know that Ungrim what's-his-name is Incarnate of Fire. Secondly, I feel that if Caradryan was going to be an incarnate we'd have known in Khaine. Third, no other major characters that have been killed off have returned, I don't see Tyrion being the first. Fourth, there are none here that I feel would fit the Lore of Beasts. I'm thinking that may be The Green Knight or if they really want to pull one out of left-field, Grimgor.


----------



## Brother Cato

Asamodai said:


> I'm not putting too much faith in that list. For one, we know that Ungrim what's-his-name is Incarnate of Fire. Secondly, I feel that if Caradryan was going to be an incarnate we'd have known in Khaine. Third, no other major characters that have been killed off have returned, I don't see Tyrion being the first. Fourth, there are none here that I feel would fit the Lore of Beasts. I'm thinking that may be The Green Knight or if they really want to pull one out of left-field, Grimgor.


I for one vote the Green Knight. Hey, Bretonnia may be gone but he's one of the few "Human" charecters around right now. On the other hand, I'd have thought Giles Le Breton would be better suited for the Lore of Life, given his main feature in the Bretonnian army book revolved around Forest Terrain.

Also, again - Balthasar traded his Metal spells for Necromancy. Not sure if still qualified to be Metal Incarnate.


----------



## Spankinginred

Oh dear, oh dear, dear, dear... I haven't played Warhammer since 2nd Edition, looks like I'll continue the trend throughout 9th Edition too!
Still, I dare say GW's marketing people know exactly what they are doing.


----------



## Vaz

Spankinginred said:


> Still, I dare say GW's marketing people know exactly what they are doing.


I doubt that very much.


----------



## Zion

Vaz said:


> I doubt that very much.


I do as well, mostly because they don't have any. Anytime they do marketing they have to hire an outside firm.


----------



## Einherjar667

And their whole rumor strategy for building hype is kinda f bizarre and dumb.


----------



## Zion

Einherjar667 said:


> And their whole rumor strategy for building hype is kinda f bizarre and dumb.


You mean the rumors they squash anytime they can nail who is leaking things to the wall?


----------



## Einherjar667

Zion said:


> You mean the rumors they squash anytime they can nail who is leaking things to the wall?



Yeah like the whole Imperial Knight drama


----------



## KarnalBloodfist

Zion said:


> but how often are veteran players actually buying anything for WFB?


How often are vets buying anything new for 40K?!?


----------



## Zion

KarnalBloodfist said:


> How often are vets buying anything new for 40K?!?


A lot more often. At least locally.


----------



## Tawa

Spankinginred said:


> Still, I dare say GW's marketing people know exactly what they are doing.


Depends which of them has been at the communal crack-pipe...... :good:


----------



## Brother Cato

Hey guys,

Nothing big or major going on, though I got into a conversation at my FLGS (so as always, you might want to visit the Salt Warp to collect your Salt from the Salt Gods) and we got talking about 9th and the Warseer rumors, when one part came up that I don't think is common knowledge.



MiyamatoMusashi said:


> Saw this posted on CDO. Cannot vouch for its accuracy/authenticity, but:
> 
> _Something very big will happen in May. This is certain. A couple of times every year the GW stores get a 'yellow date'. The shop may only be closed is the manager personally calls GW HQ and comes with a very good argument. These dates are for seriously major releases and employees can't really get the day off.
> 
> In May there is a 'red date'. That means the store can be closed for no reason what so ever. And employees can't get that day off. So it most be something really huge. They don't know what however. But my mate at GW has only tried very few 'red dates'.
> 
> First End Times was yellow._
> 
> Sounds like 9th Ed in May, if this is legit... a slightly more accurate estimate than "summer".


Apologies if previously discussed, however it looks like this may be when 9th finally drops...or the Starter Box. My FLGS manager (himself an Ex-GW Employee) confirms that this is how GW sorts their releases and such (red dates and yellow dates).

Also, I'm forwarding this from Warseer, if anyone's wondering. Double the salt.


----------



## LokiDeathclaw

Went into my local GW today to buy the last bits for my HE's before 9th. Seems silver helms are out of stock at the shop and on the webstore.......i wonder if they are running stocks down ready for 9th????


----------



## Brother Cato

LokiDeathclaw said:


> Went into my local GW today to buy the last bits for my HE's before 9th. Seems silver helms are out of stock at the shop and on the webstore.......i wonder if they are running stocks down ready for 9th????


That would be my best guess, but aren't Silver Helms staying around for 9th?


----------



## LokiDeathclaw

Brother Cato said:


> That would be my best guess, but aren't Silver Helms staying around for 9th?


Thought they were....maybe new sculpts?


----------



## Brother Cato

LokiDeathclaw said:


> Thought they were....maybe new sculpts?


All I can say there is "possibly, all I can do is guess".


----------



## Vaz

About time.


----------



## Brother Cato

Look out cap'n! We got movement!

(As per usual, I'm forwarding these from elsewhere. They're also Image Galleries, so no quotes this time. Yes, entire PAGES seem to have gotten leaked).


----------



## Asamodai

Biggest thing to me in those pictures. Bottom right of the last picture.

Boom.


----------



## venomlust

Can't really read anything, damn. I mostly just wanna see the pictures so I can get excited about raiding these kits for conversion bits to use in 40k.

Badass stuff, all around. Does the ork kill Archaon this time, or not?


----------



## Brother Cato

venomlust said:


> Can't really read anything, damn. I mostly just wanna see the pictures so I can get excited about raiding these kits for conversion bits to use in 40k.
> 
> Badass stuff, all around. Does the ork kill Archaon this time, or not?


My money's on Archeon turning Grimgor into his new Pimp Ring :biggrin:


----------



## venomlust

Brother Cato said:


> My money's on Archeon turning Grimgor into his new Pimp Ring :biggrin:


Let's hope so. One could argue the "bad guys" have already done enough damage, but I'm hoping Archaon breaks the world.


----------



## Einherjar667

Be'lakor sided with Wood Elves

Imperials siding with Nurgle

[email protected]#!


----------



## venomlust

Einherjar667 said:


> Be'lakor sided with Wood Elves
> 
> Imperials siding with Nurgle
> 
> [email protected]#!


Well, I can see Be'lakor siding with the Wood Elves. He's the master of manipulation and definitely cares about his own power over the herald he's forced to serve. He's guaranteed to stab them in the back the second that alliance stops being useful. The elves are total fools to think anything else is gonna happen, but I suppose in the face of annihilation any advantage is worthwhile.

Imperials siding with Nurgle... that's just stupid. Why would Nurgle side with anyone? Unless, of course, they willingly accept his infectious embrace. 

They jumped the shark a while ago, let's be honest.


----------



## Brother Cato

More 9th stuff. Since "discussion at FLGS" is not a linkable source, unfortunately you'll have to take us on word (and with a lot of salt).

I dropped into my FLGS today to get over Spartan being stupid with it's use of the Halo licence, and the discussion eventually lead onto WHFB (Or just Warhammer, you'll see why in a moment). Anyway, during a visit he ran into the new CEO of GW, and (naturally) barraged him with questions about 9th. From what he's told me about their discussion, the following is happening:


There's one final End Times book after Archeon, but it's largely an Epilogue Book - so I wouldn't hold your hands for any new Models/Lists and such. It will mostly be fluff.
The Round Bases thing is because GW is doing a Skirmish Game to replace Hobbit (whom they extended the licence for purely to sit on), entitled "Warhammer Fantasy". In other words, they picked a Community Name to name their new game. 9th Edition will still be using traditional square bases.
GW has no plans to physically remove armies. This includes the likes of Bretonnia and the Lizardmen oddly enough, so all of the current armies will be supported/updated when 9th rolls around. Said FLGS member felt this was especially poignant to mention as he has well over 5K of Lizardmen.
9th itself is looking closer to 7th Edition 40K in terms of the amounts of updates.
New Faction is a go. "Sons of Sigmar" teased as a possible name.

Again, take with salt. I strongly debated about posting this up, simply because I know what everyone's reaction is going to be to saying the following. Much can still change between now and Maytime-ish (when 9th is said to release).


----------



## Bindi Baji

Brother Cato said:


> New Faction is a go. "Sons of Sigmar" teased as a possible name.


While the rest sounds like plausible things that could have been said,
I can't even imagine a CEO letting anything like this out of the bag.

If this did happen,
i'm guessing this bit is something he added himself........


----------



## Brother Cato

Bindi Baji said:


> While the rest sounds like plausible things that could have been said,
> I can't even imagine a CEO letting anything like this out of the bag.
> 
> If this did happen,
> i'm guessing this bit is something he added himself........


Truth be told, it was more "overheard from another member who has also been reading up on his stuff". Still, I asked about it and the important thing there is not the name, but the fact that it's going ahead.


----------



## Tawa

A properly supported skirmish game could be pretty good :good:



Sons of Sigmar, advance!
:laugh:


----------



## Brother Cato

Tawa said:


> Sons of Sigmar, advance!
> :laugh:


*Is now tempted to take some HH Fists and mount them on Square Bases for Fantasy*


----------



## MidnightSun

Grimgor Incarnate of Beasts: 460pts
M4 WS8 BS1 S6 T6 W4 I3 A6 Ld9

Choppas, Hatred, Immune to Psychology, Waaagh!
Da Immortuls - pick a unit of Black Orcs, they get +1 WS and Hatred
Best of da Best - Rerolls hit and wound in challenges
Locus of Ghur - Innate Bound Spell Level 6, Augment, 12" bubble affecting all units from Orcs and Goblins and Ogre Kingdoms, all targets get +1 Strength and +1 Toughness for the duration of the spell

Gitsnik: +2 Strength ASF
Blood-Forged Armour: 1+ armour, 5+ Ward

Ding ding, we have a winner.


----------



## SwedeMarine

Tawa said:


> A properly supported skirmish game could be pretty good :good:
> 
> 
> 
> Sons of Sigmar, advance!
> :laugh:


This is basically what i would do if i ever started an Imperial force  Glad to know my lizards will still be supported.


----------



## Vaz

This sounds a lot better, if I'm honest.


----------



## Bindi Baji

a skirmish game is overdue, 
it could be tied into specialist older games of yesteryear as well.....


----------



## Vaz

I can only hope it has rules similar to the LotR game. It was a very tight system.


----------



## Brother Cato

SwedeMarine said:


> This is basically what i would do if i ever started an Imperial force  Glad to know my lizards will still be supported.


Fun fact - apparently, the new CEO plays nothing but 30K & Fantasy. No word on what armies he plays however.

EDIT - Further supporting what my FLGS has been saying, several models & kits previously removed for Bretonnians (Grail Knights, Questing Knights and some characters) mysteriously reappeared a few weeks ago on the UK site. Now why would they do that if they really were going to discontinue the army?


----------



## Einherjar667

I feel a lot of relief reading that. It balances out the insanity on the internet if Im honest.


----------



## Brother Cato

Einherjar667 said:


> I feel a lot of relief reading that. It balances out the insanity on the internet if Im honest.


Usually I don't post up things over word of mouth - it tends to be unreliable, and I don't have any inside moles or the like in GW to verify. People here in this thread have been surprisingly chill, but you can probably imagine what would happen if I mentioned this on Warseer or Faeit.

I can trust the people there, but there's always the uncertainty that things might change. Y'know, unless someone like Hastings or Harry at Warseer gives us something more solid.


----------



## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> Usually I don't post up things over word of mouth - it tends to be unreliable, and I don't have any inside moles or the like in GW to verify. People here in this thread have been surprisingly chill, but you can probably imagine what would happen if I mentioned this on Warseer or Faeit.
> 
> I can trust the people there, but there's always the uncertainty that things might change. Y'know, unless someone like Hastings or Harry at Warseer gives us something more solid.


I'll gladly register good news as much as i register bad. The forums you named seem to ONLY register bad. This forum seems to have a decent balance, and tip toward positive, the venom here is generally pretty light, and usually stemmed quickly by active moderating.


----------



## Einherjar667

venomlust said:


> Well, I can see Be'lakor siding with the Wood Elves. He's the master of manipulation and definitely cares about his own power over the herald he's forced to serve. He's guaranteed to stab them in the back the second that alliance stops being useful. The elves are total fools to think anything else is gonna happen, but I suppose in the face of annihilation any advantage is worthwhile.
> 
> Imperials siding with Nurgle... that's just stupid. Why would Nurgle side with anyone? Unless, of course, they willingly accept his infectious embrace.
> 
> They jumped the shark a while ago, let's be honest.


The imperials obviously aren't JUST imperials they're called "The Nameless" so, something has to be up with that. No way are they normal imperials.

But as for jumping the shark? I highly disagree. The whole series has been an escalation thing, so it's no surprise that two massive armies are going to bash together in the end. If you look at each book, it seems like the more moderate parties were all obliterated, while the ones who didn't choose something to oppose remained hanging on.

The bigger the clumps are in the final battle, the more the survivors will break apart into warring factions. The alliances will only last as long as the End Times do.


----------



## Einherjar667

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/02/wfb-9th-survives-warhammer-end-times.html

A list of stuff that will survive on to 9th ed.

Looks like BS too me, too much nonsense in the list.


----------



## Brother Cato

Einherjar667 said:


> http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/02/wfb-9th-survives-warhammer-end-times.html
> 
> A list of stuff that will survive on to 9th ed.
> 
> Looks like BS too me, too much nonsense in the list.


Agreed. A lot of the stuff there has either been debunked or parroted off earlier, more questionable rumors.

No comment from the usual guys about this?


----------



## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> Agreed. A lot of the stuff there has either been debunked or parroted off earlier, more questionable rumors.
> 
> No comment from the usual guys about this?


Nothing eyt, but here's something interesting: Harry over on Warseer seems to be the man with the plan. Over in the "does this change anyone's mind..." thread on the WFB rumour board, someone commented:

"I can't wait for all of this to be over, just so every third post isn't someone posting "here are my six armies prediction" lists...." 

Harry responds:

"Don't suppose it helps that no one has got it right yet.  "


----------



## Brother Cato

Einherjar667 said:


> Nothing eyt, but here's something interesting: Harry over on Warseer seems to be the man with the plan. Over in the "does this change anyone's mind..." thread on the WFB rumour board, someone commented:
> 
> "I can't wait for all of this to be over, just so every third post isn't someone posting "here are my six armies prediction" lists...."
> 
> Harry responds:
> 
> "Don't suppose it helps that no one has got it right yet.  "


Because that list sounded bunk the moment it was posted :biggrin:


----------



## Vaz

Einherjar667 said:


> http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/02/wfb-9th-survives-warhammer-end-times.html
> 
> A list of stuff that will survive on to 9th ed.
> 
> Looks like BS too me, too much nonsense in the list.


Can't spell BolS without BS.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

So my tomb kings really are dead? glad I took back that stuff while I still could.


----------



## March of Time

Words_of_Truth said:


> So my tomb kings really are dead? glad I took back that stuff while I still could.


Tomb kings are not dead, there undead.


----------



## Brother Cato

Words_of_Truth said:


> So my tomb kings really are dead? glad I took back that stuff while I still could.


As Vaz above said, "Can't spell BOLS without BS".

On a more positive note, quite the signifigant leak on Faeit. It sounds a lot like some of the stuff that got passed onto us last week, however I will copypasta and let you decide. It is however rather lengthy.



Ikitlagriffe on Warseer said:


> I summarized here everything I lately collected, and you seem to ignore or misinterpret. I am not paid by anyone to deceive you. I’m the most confident about aesthetic and visual questions, and about skaven stuff. Friendly.
> 
> Anyone who wants to know what there is in V9 has to imagine that this is the V8 ; it will be 90% right.
> 
> Rule changes have been made to stabilize and streamline some points, particularly at the formation units and their interaction with the characters, from what I was told.
> 
> About the armies that follow (“factions” J ) : they won’t be "bundling" of existing armies, but almost all new prospects. These are all new units with an aesthetic different from what we knew and new historic lines, new characters, we could almost consider some of them as new “races”. Nevertheless, each new release will be integrated into one or more pre-existent conventional armies. Some new units, for example, will just belong to “Forces of Order” or “Forces of Destruction”. No stress. You can keep your old collection (all your collection), and enjoy with it.
> 
> V9 will not be just one book, but a box with other things such as a volume focused on two types of battles : clashes "lord of battles "in standard format creating links between games, and smaller battles with “pre-organised” armies (that's what you took for a skirmish game I think).
> 
> About this “skirmish” game: I’m not completely sure about that : this has taken many different forms over the settings but it seems to be one of the most tested aspects in recent years by GW teams. It is not intended to be the main way to play Battle. Currently, forces will be selected from a list of predefined choices, more restrained that the currents army books, without worrying percentage points, points themselves will not so important anymore: it will be destabilizing for the old players, but the number of miniatures contained in a unit or its point value could be no longer as important as before in this system. Players would have the choice to comply or not the points. A book will summarize the possible choices for all existing armies. It was thought just for fun, and almost all special rules of existing models could be ignored because of it.
> 
> About round bases : there would be a misunderstanding at this level too. Some Warhammer miniatures will indeed now sold on round bases, but it’s the consequence of some simplified rules and not a transition to a new system, or 40k-like, or I don’t know what. No link with the new “skirmish game”. The elements attached to units will be on round base (as skaven regimental weapons or dark elves cauldron of blood for example, but also characters according to pictures I’ve seen), are no longer joined the unit but move next to, and may have a round or oval base. But if your old version is not on a round base, you can still play with, no problem.
> 
> About “waiting” armies : for the bretonnians, there is a book that will follow this year, but perhaps we can’t call this “army book” because it will be very different from what you had until then. It will be closer from the End Times books recently issued. There will be in it new units, which could join the Forces of Order, and very close from a Bretonnian army, but not only. For the Skavens, the amount of new stuff approaching is just unprecedented (although I have no visibility on dates). It won’t be really “skavens” as we knew them, but a sort of evolution type very nice and inspired. No merger with Chaos for them (anyway, no merger for anyone!). About Beastmen, they don’t have directly the same processing, to the best of my knowledge, but no doubt they will benefit from a wealth of new opportunities for chaos. I had no evidence that it’s matter of squatting them, nor nobody else.
> 
> The quantity of new stuff for Battle will be just incredible, if all that is planed comes out. New releases will be essentially new entries, unique monsters, characters, and elite units of 2 to 5 figures. This will change progressively the overall appearance of the armies, with fewer miniatures (but larger). There will always be a place for large infantry units; however I don’t have a precise view of the new rules, that's why I can’t say if it will always be interesting to play big infantry units, or not.


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## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> Because that list sounded bunk the moment it was posted :biggrin:



Harry is separate from BOLS, and was referring to lists posted in the thread on warseer, not the link from BOLS


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## Brother Cato

Einherjar667 said:


> Harry is separate from BOLS, and was referring to lists posted in the thread on warseer, not the link from BOLS


I know, but still...again though, as Vaz eloquently put it...


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## Einherjar667

Brother Cato said:


> I know, but still...again though, as Vaz eloquently put it...



Not that Warseer isn't a clusterfuck too haha. 

I believe the rumours that gravitate toward lizzies NOT getting squatted. Ones that claim they do just seem like click bait to me. Analysis days the ET and 9th ed have been planned for years, lizzies came out last year. If they were going to get squatted, we would have seen much less of a release. They wouldn't update update kits just to take them off the shelves a year or two later.


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## Bindi Baji

Einherjar667 said:


> Not that Warseer isn't a clusterfuck too haha.


A miniature diamond mine surrounded by a minefield of dog shit and dynamite would be my thoughts


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## venomlust

A ton of "confirmations" and clarifications, etc.

Via BoLS, from somewhere else blah blah blah:



> WFB 9th Rules and Faction Changes
> OK, this one takes some explaining:
> 
> This is a conversation between Harry, and Ikitlagriffe over on Warseer. Ikitlagriffe initially wrote up a list of information on WFB 9th which was unclear. Harry then condensed the initial information (the black standard text), and invited the original poster to verify the re-written information and add clarifications. Ikitlagriffe did so (THE RED ALL CAPS TEXT).
> 
> Then Harry offered some extra information and insight at the bottom.
> 
> Here goes:
> 
> Are these from your own sources YES, FROM DIFFERENT SOURCES.
> or simply your interpretation of what you have collected from the interwebz? SERIOUSLY ?… NO.
> I am pretty sure you speak English very much better than I speak any other language NOT SURE ! SORRY FOR THAT.
> 9th edition will be 90% the same as 8th edition YES, ABOUT RULES, SAME OPINION FROM 2 DIFFERENT SOURCES.
> The new ‘Factions’ …
> …will look so different from the existing armies they might as well be new armies YES
> These new armies will be made from new units/characters MAJORITY YES
> The new units will have a very different aesthetic from existing miniatures. 200% YES
> The new units can be used by one or more of the existing armies. YES
> OR can just be used as units for generic ‘Forces of order’ Or forces of destruction’ armies. NO
> I can keep my “OLD COLLECTION” YES
> … but don’t expect any new miniatures for a while? I CAN’T SAY THAT FROM WHAT I KNOW BUT LIKELY DEDUCTION
> 9th Edition will get a boxed set.I HEARD ABOUT A BOX OF BOOKS
> In the box will be a rule book? YES
> a skirmish Rule book YES / and a Warhammer armies book NOT EXACTLY : but a listing of playable units or pre-constructed groups YES.
> The warhammer armies book will have a limited army list for each faction. YES, but I HAD NO INFORMATION ABOUT “FACTIONS”(and this number of “6” ??), so I would say “for each army”.
> There is a points system. YES
> But it is not compulsory (So you can pick ‘X’ number of characters/units from the selection) SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
> Skirmish is not intended to be the main way to play Warhammer … but an alternative. YES
> This will be a simple starter game without a lot of complex special rules. An introductory game. YES
> Some fantasy miniatures will be supplied on round bases due to rules changes YES
> … but not all…. just skirmishing units DON’T KNOW and units attached to ranked units? YES
> …and big Warmachines? ATTACHED TO RANKED UNITS YES
> Characters will be on round bases. (Or oval bases for cavalry) YES
> … and so characters can no longer join ranked up units. PERSONAL DEDUCTION, BUT YES
> I do not need to re-base my existing characters to use them YES – two times confirmed
> Round bases are nothing to do with the new skirmish game YES.
> You don’t know what is going on with round bases EXPLAINED BY MINOR CHANGES OF RULES, FROM WHAT I KNOW.
> Bretonnians will not get a new army book and will not get any new units STRICTLY SPEAKING YES
> There will be some units which are a bit like Bretonnians in a new ‘Forces of order’ book YES
> Loads of stuff coming for Skaven but you don’t know when. YES
> New skaven stuff will not look like the existing Skaven stuff but an evolution. YES
> Beastmen … future is uncertain but you guess they will find a place in Chaos. YES, I GUESS.
> Lots of new stuff to come for Fantasy. YES
> Most stuff will be new units monsters or characters. YES
> Elite units will be smaller 2-5 minis.YES
> Look of armies will change. OH YES !
> Smaller armies with less miniatures and more big stuff. LOGICALLY
> No information about new rules. NO DETAILS YES, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE MINOR CHANGES.
> 
> Then Harry offers up his response:
> 
> “Firstly thanks for taking the time to do that …it is much appreciated … and not just by me I am sure.
> 
> It confirms a lot of stuff we have already heard ….
> 
> Whilst it would be great if 9th was 90% the same as 8th … my worry has always been about the miniatures.
> I guess I don’t much like the new aesthetics what I always liked about Wahammer was the whole low tech, low fantasy, up to your knees in mud, feel it had. So I weep for the background … but the real question for me remains will the new factions get 90% of the attention in terms of the releases. I have heard some armies will not get anything new …. Will any of the existing armies ever get anything else that matches the current aesthetcs in the future … beyond the stuff that is already done and awaiting release window.”
> 
> 
> 
> Let me try to put a bow on this pile of info. The 9th rules are listed as being 90% the same as 8th, and will now include a skirmish game. So that means that it is in the area of factions and army construction that the big changes lie. A smaller number of factions will be there (“6″ keeps being posted), and only they will get new minatures development going forward. The new miniatures are described as very different in style than traditional existing WFB. I would assume that you can look at the newer End Times releases to get the visual vibe they are going for. Round bases are in for a subset of miniatures (characters, and warmachines are described). If you have an old army you can still play it, but it may effectively become an “orphan” in the new system, workable – but with little to no forward support in the new game. Finally I wouldn’t hold out much hope for new hardcover army books for either of Bretonnia or Beastmen.


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## Einherjar667

Interesting. Thanks or the post, seems to lift my spirits a bit that the new edition won't forsaken my current CHAOS collection.


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## venomlust

The skirmish game sounds interesting. I'd actually play fantasy once in a while if the rules are good (or exist).


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## Einherjar667

venomlust said:


> The skirmish game sounds interesting. I'd actually play fantasy once in a while if the rules are good (or exist).



Not to mention the new Khorne units due out, those looks so freaking good. And I'm a Nurgle guy!


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## Bindi Baji

When we get a clear answer about the fate of Lizardmen (unless I have missed it) from someone of knowledge, please prod me somebody :biggrin:


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## Words_of_Truth

The new aesthetic being looking like 40k models.


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## Einherjar667

Words_of_Truth said:


> The new aesthetic being looking like 40k models.



Says who?


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## venomlust

I've been hearing that chatter based on the Skaven models having guns. As far as I'm concerned, Skaven don't exist so it isn't a problem for me :taunt:,


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## Einherjar667

In the thing posted earlier, it says the new models will look similar to the ET releases. Skaven always had guns, as do dwarfs. Blight kings, mortarchs and nagash don't look 40k-esque.


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## Vaz

Have a look at the new models which have come out since 8th edition. Things like the Hurricanum or the Luminark, the Sky Cutter, the difference between the Warp Lightning Cannons, Gyrocopters etc.

Warhammer has always been ridiculous, see the Goblin Doom Diver; but that's also a) Orcs and the resident slap stick humour, and b) part of Warhammer Nostalgia.

The new stylistic design stretches the slightly gritty design of the past into ridiculous rubbish.


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## Einherjar667

Ridiculous rubbish? Agree to disagree there.


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## venomlust

Most sculpts look pretty cool to me. The quality has gradually improved over the years. The things I thought amazing when I was a kid look like utter shit compared to modern sculpts. Different aesthetic tastes, I suppose.


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## Einherjar667

Plus it's the move to plastic thats driven the quality and progress of the aestheic. Everyone wants plastic kits!


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## Vaz

Compare. Guess which is ~12 years old.


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## Words_of_Truth

Replace the Skaven Rat Ogre heads with the new Ogryns heads and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference


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## Brother Cato

Vaz said:


> Compare. Guess which is ~12 years old.


Interesting. You compare an absolute classic model - of a single charecter no less - to a warmachine that came out a few years ago.

Was there no Doom Diver, Catapult or Field Trebutchet on the page for a better comparative model?


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## Words_of_Truth

Doom diver model is cool, the bretonnian field trebutchet that's been around for ages was good to.


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## Brother Cato

Words_of_Truth said:


> Doom diver model is cool, the bretonnian field trebutchet that's been around for ages was good to.


Still, the examples are like me comparing Thanquol and Boneripper to an _Empire State Trooper_ or a _Cadian Imperial Guardsmen_.

For a better example, here's two charecters compared back to back - 



















Otherwise, eh. The only kit that's come out in recent times that I despise is the Plastic Ogryns.


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## venomlust

That Archaon sculpt is badass, but I'm a little biased. The dorf is cool, too.


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## Zion

Archaon is a bit of an oddity for when he came out. I mean if you look at other models released at the time he stands heads and shoulders over most of them rather effortlessly.


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## Brother Cato

Zion said:


> Archaon is a bit of an oddity for when he came out. I mean if you look at other models released at the time he stands heads and shoulders over most of them rather effortlessly.


So either way you look, Archaeon is a bad model to compare with period? Wonderful joys :biggrin:


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## Zion

Brother Cato said:


> So either way you look, Archaeon is a bad model to compare with period? Wonderful joys :biggrin:


I think he fits in pretty well with other, more modern models, but he is WAY too good for a model that came out in metal.


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## Dave T Hobbit

Zion said:


> ...if you look at other models released at the time he stands heads and shoulders over most of them rather effortlessly.


He is on a horse. :grin:


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## Zion

Dave T Hobbit said:


> He is on a horse. :grin:


Yes Dave, he _does_ have a pony.


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## Zion

From BoLS:


> WFB 9th Box & Armies
> The results of the End Times will be directly reflected in the armies included in 9th Edition
> Boxed Set:
> 
> Will include good guys (the Forces of Light) versus Chaos – in a loose fashion.
> 
> The Boxed Set is set in a former city of the Empire (save your breathe, it’s NOT Mordheim), but luckily the End Times offers up plenty of new choices.
> 
> Boxed Set includes a campaign at a skirmish level and is firmly designed to introduce new players into the game at this smaller model-count level.
> 
> Look for an increased focus on “Heroes & Characters”, even at the skirmish level of the game.
> 
> WFB 9th will kick off a new set of products that cover not only the new surviving factions, but new modular terrain pieces that support the game at all size levels and reflect the new “Post End-Times” world.


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## Einherjar667

That makes me wonder if the box set will come with two complete armies, instead of lopsided pieces.


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## Bindi Baji

Einherjar667 said:


> That makes me wonder if the box set will come with two complete armies, instead of lopsided pieces.


If nothing else, it would make the old line of sight arguments interesting if the models kept falling over


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## Zion

Bindi Baji said:


> If nothing else, it would make the old line of sight arguments interesting if the models kept falling over


I see what you did there...

:so_happy:


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## Einherjar667

This has me rather intreagued, BOLS is reported alleged starter box conents (considering this is a few months off, I figured making it's own thread might be premature, no?)


Choas:

2 Warriors of Chaos units

1 Daemon unit

1 Chaos Warmachine

2 Lords (1 unique)

Forces of Light:

2 Empire infantry units

1 Empire cavalry unit

1 Elf unit

1 Warmachine (Dwarf possible)

2 Lords (1 mounted, 1 foot)

Non-Minis:

2 Rulebooks

Painting guide book

Army lists book


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## Brother Cato

While we're posting up new stuff, Hastings has this to say on things -



75hastings69 on Warseer said:


> You know I'm not actually sure it is that depressing, as it is WFB doesn't sell well enough to be supported in its current format, that much is proven by the need to change it, so the options are, they keep WFB as is and run it into the ground and it dies, every army is squatted as well as future support/releases etc.
> 
> OR we change it in the chance of keeping it alive, even if it's not how people recognise it now, it might work, it might be great, but it buys WFB time, time to turn itself around, perhaps start a new fan base, perhaps grow into something better, but it's a chance. So what if army X or Y doesn't get new models for a while, they might do in the future if things work out. I'm not sure how WFB will pan out, I'm really not, but I truly don't believe it's as bad as everyone thinks.
> 
> I'll be honest and tell you I know VERY little about new WFB, but what I've heard is that you'll still be able to play massed battles, you'll also be able to play skirmish level games, you'll still be able to use your existing models, the basing probably wont matter that much, you'll also get a load of new models, and probably a bunch of other stuff too, compared to the DEATH of WFB I think it's the best option.


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## Brother Cato

The photograph is blurry, but it looks like someone leaked the ending of Archaeon early!

I'm putting a link up here for those interested. Since it literally IS the end of the book and frankly is a spoiler of titanic proportions, I won't be posting the image here, so as to not spoil it for those who don't want to know the ending.

Hopefully, HO has Spoiler Tags.


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## Zion

HO supports spoiler tags, you just have to type them out as we have no button for them.


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## Brother Cato

Zion said:


> HO supports spoiler tags, you just have to type them out as we have no button for them.


So we'll be using them to talk about this from this point on. Massive Spoilers naturally.


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## Einherjar667

So no more WFB til the 9th ed core drops i suppose


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## Zion

Einherjar667 said:


> So no more WFB til the 9th ed core drops i suppose


Rumor wise that's possibly later this year, but yeah, definitely not after that spoiler.


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## Words_of_Truth

Well that's it then my worse fears have been confirmed


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## Zion

Words_of_Truth said:


> Well that's it then my worse fears have been confirmed


Your worst fears are them giving themselves enough room to make sure they can do pretty much whatever massive overhaul on the game they're doing for 9th?

Also 

from a comment I spotted online there was a bit in the Khaine book about the world being cyclical in nature and the same fight being repeated elsewhere. So the end of the world as we know it doesn't mean the end of the world as we know it when they can throw everything that exists back on the table with a slightly altered setting if they really want.


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## Words_of_Truth

My worse fear was they wipe the slate clean and dispense with all the history from the current world and then throw back little bits here and there so it's a shadow of it's former self.


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## Einherjar667

Words_of_Truth said:


> My worse fear was they wipe the slate clean and dispense with all the history from the current world and then throw back little bits here and there so it's a shadow of it's former self.



Except we have no idea whether or not that is happening. For all we know, the world will get rebuilt or something. Obviously we don't have the whole scope of things yet so marching around huffing and puffing and wringing our hands is going to do nothing, except distract from constructive and insightful discussion.


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## Words_of_Truth

When did this forum become so passive aggressive? 

All the previous rumours pointed to this happening, I'm sorry if how it's ended up bothers me but we all enjoy the hobby in our own way and apparently this effects me more than it has you, I'm a glass half empty type of guy. 

What I imagine might happen is..



The figure seen falling through the void is Karl Franz/Sigmar, he uses the last of his strength to reignite the world-heart and returns the world back to the way it was at the moment the spell came to it's fruition, except chaos won't be there cause they ain't watching any more and what is left at the moment the spell occurred is what will be around, so all the figures killed off etc are still gone and all the races are badly wounded and game wise some units have been totally wiped out etc etc. The skirmish game will be based on exploring this ruined world (said to be focused on one of the empire cities) It feels cheap, it kind of retains the old warhammer but the heart of it has been ripped out.


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## Einherjar667

I was just being regular aggressive  But I am sorry, I did not mean to jump down your throat, but obviously, the negativity revolving around WFB is just compounding the anxiety that many of the fans are going through .The world is changing a lot, that's a shock as it is, to add negativity and strife on top of it only makes for..... more jangly nerves, but anyway:

Your theory sounds a interesting, but you must remember, 9th ed is going to be VERY similar to 8th ed, the skirmish game is only going to be a small secondary thing. As per the latest rumors.

My guess is...



What ever has grasped the light will attempt to rebuild the warhammer world, BUT, chaos will intervene, and the battle will occur between Chaos attempting to keep the world destroyed, and the light attempting to rebuild it. How that will manifest is anyone's guess.


Now that this thread is a bit more revived, let's get back to something more enlightening:

So the core rule books are always full of photos of models, everywhere. So, if the models are getting shaken up as much as the fluff.... what will be in the 9th ed core book?


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