# FAQ updates for 8th ed are up!



## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3000006&start=2

Happy reading.

Apparently after reading one or two of them, they are mostly minor changes, changing over specific rules with the new USRs, and clarifying how some things work.


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## Starbuck (Apr 6, 2010)

Woohoo. Teclis is back to awesomeness, all that talk of his killing hisself from is auto irrestible force miscast business is put to rest.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

And the site has not crashed yet


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## Settra (Jun 5, 2010)

tomb kings are dirty :victory:


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

I've read through a few of the updates. Anyone expecting a significant update to older armies, or any sort of balancing, will be sorely disappointed.

Looking at the major changes for Bretonnians now, they've made "Virtue of Heroism" into the USR "Heroic Killing Blow", invalidated a couple of our items and clarified that Damsels can now cast Magic missiles out of the second rank, which is handy. They also confirmed that pegasus knights still cannot be joined by a character on a pegasus:ireful2:.

Interestingly enough, because of the changes to the wording of the Virtue of Heroism, it now gives KB against everything, and doesn't stop a character using magic weapons:shok:. So, I can now use the Heartwood lance, virtue of Heroism and the Tress of isolude to hit on 2+, and have killing blow against everything with a reroll to wound. That's essentially an autokill against all tough targets now...




Starbuck said:


> Woohoo. Teclis is back to awesomeness, all that talk of his killing hisself from is auto irrestible force miscast business is put to rest.


They had a note in the BRB that you can have Irresistible Force without having a miscast, through special rules and so on. Teclis was never in any real danger. He is now essentially even more amazingly powerful than he was before. Be careful though, using him now will be accompanied by many calls of "cheesy".... which he kind of is really.


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## Settra (Jun 5, 2010)

maddermax said:


> Interestingly enough, because of the changes to the wording of the Virtue of Heroism, it now gives KB against everything, and doesn't stop a character using magic weapons:shok:. So, I can now use the Heartwood lance, virtue of Heroism and the Tress of isolude to hit on 2+, and have killing blow against everything with a reroll to wound. That's essentially an autokill against all tough targets now....


oh dear god :shok: my bone ginats........


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

> Q. The Speed of Asuryan special rule states that “all High Elves
> have the special rule Always Strike First, regardless of the weapon
> they are wielding.” How does this interact with a great weapons
> Always Strike Last? (p43)
> ...


Goddamn High Elves with Great weapons are now better than ever before... They still ASF and now get rerolls on top of it.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Yeah, that is just pure sick... I might just have to keep using my HE while hiding my other armies in a dark corner.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

OMG:shok: Steam Tanks are now T10!!!!!! good lord :angry: Like that was a necessary change at all...



Tim/Steve said:


> Yeah, that is just pure sick... I might just have to keep using my HE while hiding my other armies in a dark corner.


Pretty much. While I'm going to give 8th a decent go, I have a feeling my Bretonnians will be gathering a lot of dust in the near future...


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## KarlFranz40k (Jan 30, 2009)

Could somebody tell me what Heroic Killing Blow is? Because it would seem that Steam Tanks can be killed by it....
Also they are no longer immune to magic


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Just noticed, skaven get Strength in Numbers while steadfast, even though it's an "unmodified" Ld test :no:. With a general around, this means that slaves could easily get LD 10 and be stubborn against most opponents. Add in a BSB, and Slave walls will be nigh on unbreakable.



KarlFranz40k said:


> Could somebody tell me what Heroic Killing Blow is? Because it would seem that Steam Tanks can be killed by it....
> Also they are no longer immune to magic


Heroic Killing Blow is a Killing Blow that works against anything, no matter how big it is. In the past, Brets just had the "Virtue of Heroism", which allowed KB against large targets (and it worked on steam tanks in 7th too), which has only changed insofar as we can use HKB against anything now. Against steamtanks, a single roll of 6 to wound, and the steam tank is scrap metal. I kind of like that, and with the changes we can now use it in conjunction with items that will allow us to reroll wounds too.

I should point out that even though Heroic Killing Blow is a general rule in the BRB now, Bretonnians are the only ones who have it so far AFAIK. As such, steam tanks won't be in much danger from it yet.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Its interesting to see that Beastmen got FAQs for models they do not have... 

At this point I can't tell if I should start with Warriors of Chaos or Beastmen, the former doesn't have numbers, the latter doesn't have models for the Rare choices it has (which also happen to be the best stuff in the bloody book).

I also apologise to everyone who I kept telling that the FAQs will solve the Steadfast issue. It seems we'll have to fend for ourselves and drop anvils on abusive people. Which is a shame because I can't lift an anvil.


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## Cheese meister (Jun 5, 2010)

god brettonians are the best cav in the game now ranks of 3 and the lance formation also correct me if i'm wrong but are damsels aloud the lore of light if so t7 knights any1


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## VeronaKid (Jan 7, 2010)

Cheese Meister- Brettonians deserve to be the best cavalry in the game. It's the ONLY thing that that army has going for it.


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## Cheese meister (Jun 5, 2010)

my comment is because of people on this forum saying how they are now crap although love the book tk charriots cannot have ranks


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

OMG, I hadnt seen that steam tank bit..thats just crazy. Sure normal bows and arroes can now kill thhe steamtank but anything S6-8 that used to be useful in killing it is now almost totally useless. Bolt throwers are almost never going to do anything to it and even direct hits from stonethrowers are going to be lucky to do anything at all to them.

Of course it does allow you pepper the ST with S3 arrows, roll a few lucky 6s to wound and get a few lucky 1s from its armour saves and you'll be laughing on the floor fpr the rest of the game...


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Tim/Steve said:


> Of course it does allow you pepper the ST with S3 arrows, roll a few lucky 6s to wound and get a few lucky 1s from its armour saves and you'll be laughing on the floor fpr the rest of the game...


At BS 3, short range, wouldn't it take like 720 shots to take all 10 wounds away? :laugh: Even my mighty Carnosaur will have huge trouble taking wounds off! Auto-hit in CC (IIRC), wounds on a six, still get a 5+ AS means my 5 attacks will wound about once every 3 turns. Fortunately, that's d3 wounds :so_happy:

Phil


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Oh well I'll just have to get a Ghorgon who'll swallow it whole on a 4+. 

EDIT: oh and then maybe regenerate a few wounds. :grin:


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Cheese meister said:


> god brettonians are the best cav in the game now ranks of 3 and the lance formation also correct me if i'm wrong but are damsels aloud the lore of light if so t7 knights any1


Bretonnians always got rank bonuses from ranks of three. Unfortunately, the FAQ didn't clear up whether that also counts for disrupting enemies ranks, or defeating steadfast, because it's "rank bonus" (for combat resolution) not actual ranks. I think it would be right to treat them as normal ranks, and most people will anyway, but I'm miffed that the FAQ didn't clear that up. 

At any rate, ranks of 3 might make them better than any other cavalry, but it doesn't make them able to break a large unit. Quite simply, I can never get more than 15 knights, and even that is a hugely long and unwieldy unit, worth hundreds of points and extremely vulnerable to magic and shooting. And even then, it's still only 5 ranks, so hoard units could easily have more ranks for a quarter or less the price of my knights. 

Essentially even bretonnians super-cav won't work in 8th...


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I'm pleasantly surprised that GW got some balls and made actual stat changes to certain things (mostly changing Toughness values). It's nice to see.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

maddermax said:


> Bretonnians always got rank bonuses from ranks of three. Unfortunately, the FAQ didn't clear up whether that also counts for disrupting enemies ranks, or defeating steadfast, because it's "rank bonus" (for combat resolution) not actual ranks. I think it would be right to treat them as normal ranks, and most people will anyway, but I'm miffed that the FAQ didn't clear that up.
> 
> At any rate, ranks of 3 might make them better than any other cavalry, but it doesn't make them able to break a large unit. Quite simply, I can never get more than 15 knights, and even that is a hugely long and unwieldy unit, worth hundreds of points and extremely vulnerable to magic and shooting. And even then, it's still only 5 ranks, so hoard units could easily have more ranks for a quarter or less the price of my knights.
> 
> Essentially even bretonnians super-cav won't work in 8th...


You really make my eyebrows scratch my neck. Nobody should be more discontent and pessimistic than a CSM player.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Khorothis said:


> You really make my eyebrows scratch my neck. Nobody should be more discontent and pessimistic than a CSM player.


I play CSM and Bretonnians... ah well, I can still feel more lucky than Ogre/Dark Eldar players I guess 


Meanwhile, I've just had an interesting thought. Now that there are T10 things out there (steam tanks), what happens with the Sword of the Ladies Champion, which makes your strength one higher than your opponents toughness? Strength 11? Capped at Str. 10? falls into a rules hole, and gets eaten by a grue?

You might also be able to get similar effects from other armies special items (DE Manbane and rending stars maybe?). One more thing to ponder...


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

All stats are capped ay 10... I even saw in the Deamon FAQ that Attacks are for one of their rules, which is the only stat that previously wasn't capped.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> All stats are capped ay 10... I even saw in the Deamon FAQ that Attacks are for one of their rules, which is the only stat that previously wasn't capped.


True that... on the other hand, having reread the item rules, it also says that you'll always wound on 3+, so I suppose I'll just be Str. 10, but still wound T10 on 3+ anyway... that's my guess anyway.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

maddermax said:


> I play CSM and Bretonnians... ah well, I can still feel more lucky than Ogre/Dark Eldar players I guess


Yeah tell me about it... HE FAQ gave them ASF with great weapons, Empire FAQ gave them T10 steamtanks... but my Ogre FAQ maker decided that having a greatskull causing a miscast on a double 1, 2, 3 and now 6 as well was too beardy and so it changed to 1s, 2s and 6s. Shame really, I was planning on using that as a less powerful (and more expensive) ring of hotek.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

maddermax said:


> True that... on the other hand, having reread the item rules, it also says that you'll always wound on 3+, so I suppose I'll just be Str. 10, but still wound T10 on 3+ anyway... that's my guess anyway.


Yeah, I'd say that as far as rolling to Wound is concerned that a model equipped with said item would _count as_ having S11, but not *actually* have it. That might get kinda weird with armor modifiers though. I mean, -8 to armor saves is kinda harsh...


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

maddermax said:


> ...makes your strength one higher than your opponents toughness? Strength 11? Capped at Str. 10? falls into a rules hole, and gets eaten by a grue?





Katie Drake said:


> Yeah, I'd say that as far as rolling to Wound is concerned that a model equipped with said item would _count as_ having S11, but not *actually* have it. That might get kinda weird with armor modifiers though. I mean, -8 to armor saves is kinda harsh...


Also, it would protect against things (I cannot recall an exact example but I think there is one) that apply -1 strength.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

maddermax said:


> You might also be able to get similar effects from other armies special items (DE Manbane and rending stars maybe?). One more thing to ponder...


Small bit to add, but that caps out. S6 normal, S7 stacking with manbane.

Anyways, a lot of this just looks lazy, just take a look at the Dark Elf Cauldron of Blood for a minute. Lost Terror and MR(1), apparently Hags don't get Frenzy/AHW, and more bizarrely Death Hags don't get it when their profile clearly states they do. The description says it's removed on the 4th wound, but only shows 3 wounds on the profile. Lazy, lazy, lazy. I hope they fix this stuff before the next tourney in my area.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

Masked Jackal said:


> Small bit to add, but that caps out. S6 normal, S7 stacking with manbane.
> 
> Anyways, a lot of this just looks lazy, just take a look at the Dark Elf Cauldron of Blood for a minute. Lost Terror and MR(1), apparently Hags don't get Frenzy/AHW, and more bizarrely Death Hags don't get it when their profile clearly states they do. The description says it's removed on the 4th wound, but only shows 3 wounds on the profile. Lazy, lazy, lazy. I hope they fix this stuff before the next tourney in my area.


Yeah, It seems I am not the only one who thought "what piece of rubbish, self-contradictionary bullshit!". Although I think we are meant to to use it as we always have, just with a few changes so it works in 8th ed. After all, the clarification mentions that the Hags get extra attacks when frenzied (which they forgot to mention that they are themselves).

What's even worse is the Ring of Hotek:


> "Page 102 – Ring of Hotek
> Change to “Any Wizard (friend or foe) attempting to cast a
> spell within 12" of the wearer must roll on the Miscast table on
> any roll of a double, but will only cast a spell with irresistible
> force on a roll of double 6.”


Well, the item is as nasty as ever, but it now apparently only works when the caster is within 12". Not when targeting something. Then the ensuing FAQ states:


> Q. Do area of effect spells miscast on a double if they affect any model within 12" of the Ring of Hotek? (p102)
> A. Yes.


Aha. Seems to me the RoH has now become even more ridiculous than ever as it now causes miscasts when something is affected within it's 12" bubble. Not just cast or targeted, but when it's merely affecting something. Which is completely different from the new ruling the RoH has received. WTH?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Ring of Hotek looks to be just the same as before except for the AoE additions: the wording of the FAQ isnt clear so both the previous options still apply to it: it can read 'casting from within 12" of the ring' or 'casting to within 12" of the ring'... but thats for the best... its a hugely powerful defensive magical item, but if it didnt nerf wizards within 12" then it wouldnt come with the downsides (which is why its so cheap).


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

I agree that, just like with the CoB, it will likely play as before. But it is piss poorly written and as such will cause mass confusion and probably plenty of odd situations perfect for rules abuse.

And toughness 10 stanks. Wth? Was that really necessary? Because it was oh so underplayed and useless before so they had to do something to make up for that. I recently played an empire player with the new rules and guess what rolled me. That's right, a stank. Bolt throwers are basically worthless against it now. 

But hey, it was a pretty epic game actually. I do like the more flowing and streamlined way 8th ed. plays. But that frigging stank was pretty annoying. Didn't even so much as scratch it.

Hell, i'll just throw it a distraction or something or find some other counter. After all, it's not immune to magic anymore it seems, so some Dark Elf magic could likely kill it. Just need to make it take that initiative test and *poof* no more stank.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH said:


> Hell, i'll just throw it a distraction or something or find some other counter. After all, it's not immune to magic anymore it seems, so some Dark Elf magic could likely kill it. Just need to make it take that initiative test and *poof* no more stank.


That was brought up as a possible fix on Druchii.net, but I believe there's a rule that somehow requires a strength value from the attack, from what the responses said. The only way I can think of getting through that thing is the Executioners Axe, which is just sad.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH said:


> Hell, i'll just throw it a distraction or something or find some other counter. After all, it's not immune to magic anymore it seems, so some Dark Elf magic could likely kill it. Just need to make it take that initiative test and *poof* no more stank.


You sure? Is the immune to no-strength magic part of its basic rules from the army book?
I'm assuming it is still immune, if not then a metal-mage is certainly making its way into my HE army since wounding the steam tank on a 2+ with no saves would be awesome...


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

It'd be nice if the stank were a bit easier to handle. As a Warriors of Chaos player, it wrecks me every time. If it's not functionally immune to magic anymore, though, a Sorcerer of Nurgle can make it disappear pretty easily. Here's to hoping (I know, that's sort of a contradiction of being Nurgle-esque...)


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

No I'm not sure. It's probably little else than wishful thinking but the Empire FAQ does state:


> Page 50 – Steam Tank
> Change the profile, equipment and special rules for the Steam
> Tank to:
> Unit Type: Chariot* (armour save 1+)
> ...


Which is very much like the CoB's FAQ entry. I don't know what the magic immune special rule is called but the way this is written leads one to think it has lost that particular advantage. Which, unlike the Cauldron, is actually fair considering it has become almost indestructible now. 
The cauldron, if played in according to the FAQ, on the other hand gained little benefit from the rules change but were just nerfed with little reason. 

So even if i'm being hipocritical and ignoring one FAQ because it makes little sense while simultaneously insists others should stick to theirs, I think my blatant hipocrisy is justified. Here's for hoping people and GW agrees.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH said:


> So even if i'm being hipocritical and ignoring one FAQ because it makes little sense while simultaneously insists others should stick to theirs, I think my blatant hipocrisy is justified. Here's for hoping people and GW agrees.


Agreed. It's reasonable for the CoB to get the protection it gets, but Steam Tanks don't need to get any harder.


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## stevenhassell (Aug 5, 2009)

WELL!!! im a little piffed that my DOW army which is 10000pnts strong is now.. offically but invertaly discontinued, and im NOT HAPPPY!!, i mean come on i spent a couple of G's mustering up that army


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

What exactly prevents you from using it in 8th ed? Sure, it's not FAQ'ed but neither are Cahos Dwarfs which, as far as I know, are still going strong on their own.
They might not be a tourney army, but they never were anyway. As a matter of fact, I believe that they have received a major power boost due to the new magic rules and focus on large blocks of infantry which, let's be honest, was the best units in DoW armies. With a few exceptions.


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## HiveMinder (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm disappointed that there were no passive effects added for specialized magic schools, like Skaven Magic or Waaaagh! magic. Would have been nice.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

HiveMinder said:


> I'm disappointed that there were no passive effects added for specialized magic schools, like Skaven Magic or Waaaagh! magic. Would have been nice.


Having asked GW why they did not add these in, there was apparently not time to play-test lore skills for the army specific lores. Whether that is an indication that they will release them in revised FAQs later or not? I think probably not.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Apparently, updated FAQ's are up. Still some stupid stuff with the Cauldron, but at least you can tell they intentionally nerfed the number of attacks, without doing much of anything else.


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

I just realized something.... Great Eagle Spam is possible! Haha. Not sure if its good but its worth trying...


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Styro-J said:


> I just realized something.... Great Eagle Spam is possible! Haha. Not sure if its good but its worth trying...


The game I played last Wednesday says that, while they aren't amazing on the offense, they can be quite good for distracting units due to their low cost.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

YAY!!! I still don't knoe the exact name of the Stanks magic-resistant ability but it now seems it has lost that pretty clearly:



> Steam Tank, Magic phase
> Ignore this paragraph.


Pit of Shades and Purple Sun should rightly be feared by now.


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