# Boomfex or Screamerkiller?



## Brother Selacious (Jul 12, 2009)

so in my army list i have space for two cheap elite fex's I'm curious if the boomfex or the screamerkiller is better. perhaps an entirely different genus is the best option. thoughts? opinions?


----------



## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Boomfex, by far. Those S8 pies are just awesome, and you don't need to slowly plod up to them to start doing damage.


----------



## rokar4life (Jun 21, 2008)

is a boomfex 115, or under? anyways, you will be surprised, and disapointed when you run a CC carnifex, it will not last more than 2 rounds at the most with TEQ, and it simply can't have enough attacks to be useful againts GEQ, or even MEQ. The only "effective" ways to kit it are WAY above 115, and will make it remaking its points even further away from a possibility. But remember whatever you choose go with +toughness instead of +save, the save wont save you.


----------



## Brother Selacious (Jul 12, 2009)

rokar4life said:


> is a boomfex 115, or under?


I'm pretty sure a Boomfex is just a fex plus St and a Bs which comes out to 113pts


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Brother Selacious said:


> I'm pretty sure a Boomfex is just a fex plus St and a Bs which comes out to 113pts


Yep, that's correct.

A Boomfex is almost always far more effective than a Screamer-Killer. Carnifexes simply don't have the number of Attacks, Weapon Skill or Initiative to be truly effective in close combat. The only remotely effective Carnifex configuration I've seen that was geared for combat was a Ninja-fex, equipped as follows.

Carnifex
- Two pairs of scything talons
- Adrenal glands (+1WS and +1I)
- Toxic Miasma
Pts: 113

This guy's pretty good in that he can wide into Tactical Squads and the like and have less to worry about than your average Carnifex. He has 4 Attacks before the charge and will hit MEQs on a 3+ in close combat because of the Miasma and his WS boost. His slightly improved Initiative value allows him to strike before power fists and their kin, giving him a chance of squashing the offending model before it gets a chance to hit him.

Of course, another more common alternative when it comes to Elite Carnifex configurations is the simple dakkafex. Give him two pairs of twin-linked devourers and and BS upgrade and you have 8 shots hitting on 4's with rerolls with a good strength value with a respectable range. Depending on your regular opponents, the Dakkafex can be the most effective Babyfex combination. Marines, Necrons and other similarly small and elite armies hate it, and even the hordes like Orks, other Tyranids and Imperial Guard will suffer, though due to their typically very large squads the Boomfex can oftentimes cause more casualties per turn.

Best of luck!

Katie D


----------



## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

Boomfex. Oh, god is it better. It's the best ranged unit the nids have. ST8 w/ pinning, nice. Every fex I think of tend to get barbed, scythe tail, and tusks.


----------



## drummerholt1234 (May 27, 2009)

Boomfex is the best "elite" fex IMO. Take them.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Carnifex
> - Two pairs of scything talons
> - Adrenal glands (+1WS and +1I)
> - Toxic Miasma
> Pts: 113


That would be a great elite fex, cept it actually comes out to be 119 points. 

A ninjafex doesn't have the adrenal gland (I). A variant on the Ninjafex doesn't have the toxic miasma, but does have flesh hooks and Adrenal Gland(I). The former is more effective IMO.


----------



## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

The best thing about CC fexes is that alot of troops cant hurt it with it's high toughness, I also agree with not taking +1 to your save as most guns shooting it will be around S8 and have an ap of 2 therefore killing of your 2+ save anyway as most AP 3 guns are S6 and so have a hard time wounding you still as they need to roll 5+'s


----------



## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

Uh... there are plenty of troops around that can wound a carnifex..


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

rokar4life said:


> But remember whatever you choose go with +toughness instead of +save, the save wont save you.


Are you shitting me?
Reinforced Chitin is the best of the 3.
An extra wound is incredibly useful!

One extra toughness is alright, it makes it harder for the S6-8 weapons to hurt you, but it's still not really worth the cost.
2+ save also is only mediocre, yes it makes him basically immortal against Missile launchers and anything without AP2 or a powerfist; but it's still too expensive.

For a meagre 15 points, you get an extra wound; anything which intends to be shot at a lot should take it, 5 wounds should not be sneezed at.


@OP.
I say Boomfex, as has been said Melee fexes aren't too flash.
The S8 pie plate is incredibly useful, and will make your life against Transport-heavy lists and Necrons SO much easier (Necron Warriors don't get their WBB roll againt it)


----------



## ironhammer (Aug 14, 2008)

DON"T GIVE CARNIFEXES RANGED WEAPONS! even with enhanced sences a carnifex will only be able to shoot like a guardsmen, and i garantee your'e shots will go wild, focus your carnifex on cc assaults and try using your hive tyrant for ranged support.


----------



## drummerholt1234 (May 27, 2009)

ironhammer said:


> DON"T GIVE CARNIFEXES RANGED WEAPONS! even with enhanced sences a carnifex will only be able to shoot like a guardsmen, and i garantee your'e shots will go wild, focus your carnifex on cc assaults and try using your hive tyrant for ranged support.


Holy shit. This is why people lose with nids in 5ed. They try to play the CC game. Look at any good competitive NID list and you will see that it is mainly shooty. The Nid codex only have 3 "good" CC units in the book. A CC flyrant, a CC fex (shooting ones are better for Tyrants and fexes thou) and genestealers.


----------



## drummerholt1234 (May 27, 2009)

Winterous said:


> For a meagre 15 points, you get an extra wound; anything which intends to be shot at a lot should take it, 5 wounds should not be sneezed at.
> 
> 
> @OP.
> ...


Winterous has it right in a nutshell! Good advise!


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

ironhammer said:


> DON"T GIVE CARNIFEXES RANGED WEAPONS! even with enhanced sences a carnifex will only be able to shoot like a guardsmen, and i garantee your'e shots will go wild, focus your carnifex on cc assaults and try using your hive tyrant for ranged support.


.......................................................
Whut?

Take a look at Orks.
The BEST ballistic skill in their whole army is 3, does that make them bad at shooting?
Well, yes, but they have some of the more effective shooting units in the whole game; and sheer mass of fire sort of overshadows the whole "I can't hit things!" problem.

Carnifexes are the BEST unit for shooting that Tyranids have.
S10 and S8 pie plate, that's what they do with guns.
Blast weapons don't NEED ballistic skill, you're almost as likely to hit with a BS1 model as a BS5 model, it makes quite little difference.
And dude, are you saying that a 50% chance to hit isn't worth it?
If so, Imperial Guard shouldn't bother shooting at all!

BS4 is a quite small difference from BS3, it's a 1/6 chance better of hitting, you've only reduced your chance of missing by 1/3.


----------



## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Of course, another more common alternative when it comes to Elite Carnifex configurations is the simple dakkafex. Give him two pairs of twin-linked devourers and and BS upgrade and you have 8 shots hitting on 4's with rerolls with a good strength value with a respectable range. Depending on your regular opponents, the Dakkafex can be the most effective Babyfex combination. Marines, Necrons and other similarly small and elite armies hate it, and even the hordes like Orks, other Tyranids and Imperial Guard will suffer, though due to their typically very large squads the Boomfex can oftentimes cause more casualties per turn.


I'd have to agree with KD on this; The "best" Elite Carnifex is the Dakkafex with Enhanced Senses. This guy is great for mowing down "elite" infantry, such as Wraithguard, and can even make Wraithlords nervous. He really comes into his own in larger games, as the enemy tends to ignore the Dakkafex and focus on larger threats like Flyrants and tooled-up Carnifexes. He can even do well in Close combat, as he's still a montrous creature and can cream tanks that get careless. I even use a dakkafex as an anti-aircraft device in Apocalypse games- He cranks out enough shots that usually at least ONE hits those pesky flyers...


----------



## drummerholt1234 (May 27, 2009)

A dakkafex is not the "best elite fex." There is no best elite fex because they all do something different. A dakkafex can shoot infantry and that it. It can take out most vehicles and in a mech world that is not good. A boomfex can take out nob bikers and hordes as well as most tanks and a screamer killer/other CC fex is a beast in CC. They all do something but have a draw back as well. IMO the most well-round fex is the boomfex but it is by no means the best.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

The thing that makes me take Boomfexs over Dakkafexs most of the time is that dakkatyrants are so bloody effective. Hence, you don't need the mass number of shots as you already have them. The Boomfex offers something different, and is more flexible as well


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> The thing that makes me take Boomfexs over Dakkafexs most of the time is that dakkatyrants are so bloody effective. Hence, you don't need the mass number of shots as you already have them. The Boomfex offers something different, and is more flexible as well


Exactly.
Dakkafexes are powerful, that can't be doubted.
But Boomfexes are much more adaptable than Dakkafexes.
They have a solid anti-tank weapon, they have an extra attack, and they can slaughter infantry and (most importantly) Necrons, because it's S8.

Also they look cooler, and don't require bits from 2 separate kits to make.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Lots of 'fear the Necron' here, but most Necron players seem to like taking RezOrbs so that Instant Death does nothing to affect WBB. S6 is just as good vs Necrons as S8, so why go crazy with the over-kill. There should be a more efficient way.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

The Boomfex still has a longer range than the Dakkafex, which helps when versusing things like Necrons. Though I don't think 'are better than Necrons' is a reason behind taking a Boomfex, it is just more flexible and fills a gap that normally appears in Tyranid armies


----------



## ironhammer (Aug 14, 2008)

Winterous said:


> .......................................................
> Whut?
> 
> Take a look at Orks.
> ...



I probably didn't explain my standing very well, it is true that orks are terrible shots and guardsmen are only moderate and yet both are still a valid ranged units, but here's the thing, there's a lot of them shooting, orks and guardsmen have 10-30 models in a squad and can pelt out enough shots to compensate for a less-than-decent aim, but a carnifex is only one beast and it just can't deliver that kind of a salvo. Besides, when you consider that there is a limit to how strong tyranid ranged weapons get you find that a lot of the carnifex's strength is wasted, a barbed-strangler shot from a hive tyrant and a barbed strangler shot from a carnifex will hit with the same strength, same with a deathspitter or a devorer, the only weapon that really takes advantage of the immense strength of the carnifex is the venom cannon, and it is a really overrated weapon; (an anti-tank gun that can only glance tanks :/ ). Ultimately a ranged tyrant gives you the same "bang-for-your-buck" and it has synapse, and a better BS so less drift. overall, it is just a better deal. If you want to give your carnifex a ranged weapon i'd stick with spine banks, it still leaves your carnifex's "hands" free to field more cc weapons and they double as granades (in case you ever need them).

I will respect the fact that a Ranged carnifex is cheap compaired to a cc carnifex. And for tyranid players that is a big thing.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

ironhammer said:


> I probably didn't explain my standing very well, it is true that orks are terrible shots and guardsmen are only moderate and yet both are still a valid ranged units, but here's the thing, there's a lot of them shooting, orks and guardsmen have 10-30 models in a squad and can pelt out enough shots to compensate for a less-than-decent aim, but a carnifex is only one beast and it just can't deliver that kind of a salvo. Besides, when you consider that there is a limit to how strong tyranid ranged weapons get you find that a lot of the carnifex's strength is wasted, a barbed-strangler shot from a hive tyrant and a barbed strangler shot from a carnifex will hit with the same strength, same with a deathspitter or a devourer, the only weapon that really takes advantage of the immense strength of the carnifex is the venom cannon, and it is a really overrated weapon; (an anti-tank gun that can only glance tanks :/ ). Ultimately a ranged tyrant gives you the same "bang-for-your-buck" and it has synapse, and a better BS so less drift. overall, it is just a better deal. If you want to give your carnifex a ranged weapon i'd stick with spine banks, it still leaves your carnifex's "hands" free to field more cc weapons and they double as granades (in case you ever need them).
> 
> I will respect the fact that a Ranged carnifex is cheap compaired to a cc carnifex. And for tyranid players that is a big thing.


There is a BIG difference between having a Carnifex and a Hive a Tyrant firing a Barbed Strangler- Carnifex hits with S8, Hive Tyrant w/Toxin Sacs is only S5. 

Also, the reason a ranged Carnifex is a better pick is because a CC Carnifex will be lucky to do damage. They are slow and quite easily outrun. They have to get into combat, so your opponent can just avoid it. Meanwhile, a ranged Carnifex doesn't have to catch up to their guys to kill stuff. Also, it is one of the 3 things in your army can provide longish range support, the others being Hive Tyrants and Biovores. As Biovores aren't the best unit you can get, and you can only take 1, and you can only have two Tyrants, your limiting yourself with longer-than-average ranged firepower. 

I don't personally like the Venom Cannon either, I think its place is on the Hive Tyrant, but still, a Carnifex w/ Barbed Strangler is far more flexible and efficient than a Close Combat Carnifex


----------



## drummerholt1234 (May 27, 2009)

ironhammer said:


> I probably didn't explain my standing very well, it is true that orks are terrible shots and guardsmen are only moderate and yet both are still a valid ranged units, but here's the thing, there's a lot of them shooting, orks and guardsmen have 10-30 models in a squad and can pelt out enough shots to compensate for a less-than-decent aim, but a carnifex is only one beast and it just can't deliver that kind of a salvo. Besides, when you consider that there is a limit to how strong tyranid ranged weapons get you find that a lot of the carnifex's strength is wasted, a barbed-strangler shot from a hive tyrant and a barbed strangler shot from a carnifex will hit with the same strength, same with a deathspitter or a devorer, the only weapon that really takes advantage of the immense strength of the carnifex is the venom cannon, and it is a really overrated weapon; (an anti-tank gun that can only glance tanks :/ ). Ultimately a ranged tyrant gives you the same "bang-for-your-buck" and it has synapse, and a better BS so less drift. overall, it is just a better deal. If you want to give your carnifex a ranged weapon i'd stick with spine banks, it still leaves your carnifex's "hands" free to field more cc weapons and they double as granades (in case you ever need them).
> 
> I will respect the fact that a Ranged carnifex is cheap compaired to a cc carnifex. And for tyranid players that is a big thing.



you just made your standing even worse with bad example :laugh:

See below post for why some of the stuff he say are bad examples.


----------



## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

drummerholt1234 said:


> you just made your standing even worse with bad example :laugh:


I don't really agree with Ironhammer, but he makes his case. This post on the other hand, is just shit. What standing are you talking about and what bad example?

Why are people talking about necrons though? Necrons are a barely-playable army right now and have no hope whatsoever against nidzilla - or genestealers or hordes for that matter. Phase them out and go to the pub early.


----------



## drummerholt1234 (May 27, 2009)

@Someguy



ironhammer said:


> I probably didn't explain my standing very well,
> 
> There is the "standing" that I was talking about.​
> but a carnifex is only one beast and it just can't deliver that kind of a salvo.
> ...


There is that still "shit" to you.


The reason these are bad explaes is because most of the stuff he is saying is not true. He right on some points but his stats for the guns ect... are wrong. Sorry if I came across as rude.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Someguy said:


> I don't really agree with Ironhammer, but he makes his case. This post on the other hand, is just shit. What standing are you talking about and what bad example?
> 
> Why are people talking about necrons though? Necrons are a barely-playable army right now and have no hope whatsoever against nidzilla - or genestealers or hordes for that matter. Phase them out and go to the pub early.


FYI I have yet to lose vs Nids, and I have played vs many types of Nid list. Fexes are usually dead by turn 3, and all synaps creatures by turn 4. Then the Necrons just sit back and take the easy win.



drummerholt1234 said:


> @Someguy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think you are sorry that you come across as rude, because if you were then you wouldn't do it. It doesn't really bother me, but at least you should be honest about it.


----------



## ironhammer (Aug 14, 2008)

drummerholt1234 said:


> @Someguy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well EXCUSE me for not having a blasted codex on-hand when I post, but even if Barbed Stranglers are stronger on a Carnifex; Devourers, Deathspitters, Fleshborers, and Spinefists aren't. And a friggin pieplate is no excuse for bad aim because I can say from personal expierence that that extra bs the tyrant gets has been the difference between hitting units and hitting dirt. Dakkafexes kitted out with twin-liked devourers and such would come close, but would still do more harm in the hands of a tyrant.

Now I see that My my ideas are out of the norm, and i respect that a lot of people prefer a ranged carnifex over a cc 'fex and I see where they are cumming from with it; in my opinion even though a cc fex will not usually get to hit, I personally field one because when he does hit it hurts like hell for most anything. While I field a Boomrant because it is a pretty decent Synapse anchor.


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

ironhammer said:


> Well EXCUSE me for not having a blasted codex on-hand when I post


If you play Nids then you shouldn't need it.
And if you don't know what you're talking about, then don't post aggressively.
You practically yelled at everyone who thought Shooter fexes were good.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Simmer down kiddies. Don't make Auntie Katie angry.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

ironhammer said:


> Well EXCUSE me for not having a blasted codex on-hand when I post, but even if Barbed Stranglers are stronger on a Carnifex; Devourers, Deathspitters, Fleshborers, and Spinefists aren't. And a friggin pieplate is no excuse for bad aim because I can say from personal expierence that that extra bs the tyrant gets has been the difference between hitting units and hitting dirt. Dakkafexes kitted out with twin-liked devourers and such would come close, but would still do more harm in the hands of a tyrant.


Devourers are stronger on a Carnifex, but I agree that they are definitely better in the hands of a Tyrant. Carnifex should stick to the big guns as far as I'm concerned 

Deathspiters are the same, but they aren't really taken alot by either MC. 

Fleshborers/spinefists are a waste on both really.


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Devourers are stronger on a Carnifex, but I agree that they are definitely better in the hands of a Tyrant. Carnifex should stick to the big guns as far as I'm concerned
> 
> Deathspiters are the same, but they aren't really taken alot by either MC.
> 
> Fleshborers/spinefists are a waste on both really.


Well, you can't take Fleshborers on a Carnifex or Hive Tyrant, and Spinefists aren't really a waste on a Carnifex, as they can only be taken as the back weapon.
But yeah, Deathspitters aren't too flash, but they can be a decent extra gun on a shooty Tyrant, as it's good strength and hits reliably, also has good range (if you want to keep back, 18" on Devourers is not desirable)


----------



## Brother Selacious (Jul 12, 2009)

I like how intense this got lol. good info though thanks


----------

