# to beat Grimgor ironhide



## DeathsShadow (Oct 12, 2010)

hello
im a dark elf player and these tactics i used to deal with grimgor. feel free to critisize or suggest other tactics

in combat grimgor is a machine. a lot of attacks with re-rolls to hit fist turn at high strength equals pain for characters, monster, troops and most other units not to mention his usual retinue of black orcs. in combat the main issues a player will have to deal with. strength, always strikes first with numbers of attacks and re-rolls, his guard of black orcs. lastly is his incredible armour save.

to deal with strength high numbers of troops, flanking and rear attacks is the way to go. also most armies have the possibilities to get ward saves. dark elves hav to good options. black pendant is a great option (but highly expensive) as it gives you 50/50 chance of saving each wound while possibly causing wounds on grimgor, unfortunaly it is expensive. the PoK is perfect for fighting grimgor. ward save that improves when facing high strength hits equals a win. i often use this together with weapons that ignore armour saves in challenges. at the least you manage to tie up an expensive and devastating unit for a bit. 

theres not many ways to deal with the always strike first special rule except for using the rule aswel and having the higher initiative. assassins are useful and can take the venom sword again its costly but effective. the other option is to just throw survivable units that can have the chance to fight back against grimgor

to deal with his black orcsi tend to flank with frenzied corsairs with 2 hand weapons. hatred is an added bonus and to combat his armour save of course there is weapons that ignore armour but there is also swamping. by dishing out so many hits 1's are bound to come up during the armour save roll.

grimgor plus a decent size unit of Black orc is a massive investment for an orc player so if u avoid combat or tie it up with a cheap unit that can hold grimgor for a turn or two (rat slaves are a good example, large numbers and cheap). then the advantages that grimgor has become void and the point investment put into the unit was wasted. the use of movement can save units from combat as can terrain, so if a fight isnt in your favour use these to your advantages to stay away.

lastly the option to sit back and pick off members of the unit until the unit isnt much of a treat is a great tactic. dark elf repeater crossbows, crossbows, cannons, flame and blast templates are effective against such units. magic aswel can cause large damage to units. if this is the tactic of choice make sure u concentrate your fire. thers no point in killing a few models a turn as the unit will still be deadly. all units that can shoot/cast magic at should do so. if wou choose this tactic stick to it dont change your mind half way though.

a point i thought i would mention even though its obvious. grimgor is a psychological unit like steamtanks and such. stick to the plan when facing him and dont panic. he is strong but not unstoppable. 

i know how to fight him using dark elves. if anyone wants to add other armies ways to beat him feel free


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

> to deal with strength high numbers of troops, flanking and rear attacks is the way to go.


only a very VERY bad player leaves the flanks of Grimgors unit exposed. Nigh Gobs either side + 3 fanatics stop pretty much any flank or rear attack



> The PoK is perfect for fighting grimgor. ward save that improves when facing high strength hits equals a win. i often use this together with weapons that ignore armour saves in challenges. at the least you manage to tie up an expensive and devastating unit for a bit.


I just refuse to challenge D.Elfs with the PoK. if you challenge me I'll feed you the unit champ and butcher your guys with Grimgor instead.



> ]theres not many ways to deal with the always strike first special rule except for using the rule aswel and having the higher initiative. assassins are useful and can take the venom sword again its costly but effective.


I find assassins to be a mild inconvenience at best. Even Shadowblade is only moderately annoying.



> to deal with his black orcsi tend to flank with frenzied corsairs with 2 hand weapons.


Again, this only works if your opponent has the tactical genius of a cabbage.



> by dishing out so many hits 1's are bound to come up during the armour save roll.


At BEST you can bring 3 20mm bases to bear against him, if ANY of them are characters or champions they will get ripped apart first by Grimgor lowering the number of attacks. You're S3? against T5? This is really REALLY clutching at straws here.



> grimgor plus a decent size unit of Black orc is a massive investment for an orc player so if u avoid combat


I call my waaagh followed by 6 dice, power scroll, cast waaaagh. 



> or tie it up with a cheap unit that can hold grimgor for a turn or two (rat slaves are a good example, large numbers and cheap). then the advantages that grimgor has become void and the point investment put into the unit was wasted.


Tar pit units are very good against Grimgor, though an O+G player can bring large numbers to the fight too. I've only had my Grimgor successfully tar pitted once and that was a unit of 200 Clanrats. Shit, that unit was so many points I didn't care I just took my time and butchered it.



> the use of movement can save units from combat


We have so many movement abilites in animosity, calling a waaagh and casting hand of gork and waagh there is no escape from Grimgor if he wants to catch you.



> as can terrain,


Terrain doesn't slow infantry anymore bar a few exceptions. Even then I'll hand of gork my way through it



> lastly the option to sit back and pick off members of the unit until the unit isnt much of a treat is a great tactic. dark elf repeater crossbows, crossbows, cannons, flame and blast templates are effective against such units. magic aswel can cause large damage to units. if this is the tactic of choice make sure u concentrate your fire. thers no point in killing a few models a turn as the unit will still be deadly. all units that can shoot/cast magic at should do so. if wou choose this tactic stick to it dont change your mind half way though.


this is the ONLY sure fire way of preventing Grimgor fuelled genocide. Even then he still piles forward at an insane pace. 

I can generally be on your deployment zone turn 2, no auto march block is fantastic as you can't even whizz a flyer across to slow him anymore as he just ignores it most of the time.

We have the best anti magic in the game apart from dwarves with a guaranteed +4 dispel dice before you even roll for the pool so we can lock you out there. We have 50 point channel machines and even more power dice if we get in combat so we can be fairly certain we get our choice spell off.

The Grimgor list is built to get him across the table and into your army as fast as possible. It's a fairly blunt army to use and doesn't offer the O+G player much tactical variance, but it's effective as hell.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

the only luck l have ever had vs Grimgor is to send my chaos warr unit which ends up as a even fight, still l never been able to flank him as l have never seen anyone not garud that units flank :wink:


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

Throw the Chaos Rune Shield at him Sybarite, it makes Grimgor cry. I hate that goddamn shield.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Warriors of Chaos should beat the fool out of the Black Orc unit, and while Grimgor's going to MURDER the unit champion (you're bringing those and not being silly, right?) he's getting at most four points of combat resolution out of that. If you decimate his unit, there's just not a lot he can do to swing things back his way. 

If you're not playing with Warriors of Chaos, and have access to decent ranged units... that's really the simplest fix. Goblin units and whatnot aren't tremendous threats, and certainly aren't worth taking the time to shoot when you've got Grimgor to deal with. Just unload all your war machines into the unit, and by the time Grimgor gets around (if he gets around...) you'll be able to take him. He'll even fail his Look Out Sir! occasionally, and cannonballs make him go squish.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Chaos Lord with Runeshield and Rune sword 

Oh, Archon and Tyrion should be good matches.

Caradryan of the Phoenix guard as a suicide bomb. I'd love to see the Orc player realise what your plan was and have Grimgor and his Black orcs do EVERYTHING they can to avoid him.
Or blast the living hell out of him with Teclis or another killer mage.

Any vampire with Vlads ring.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

I have never had a chaos lord lose to Grimgor, Even my most common dwarf lord build is farely succesful against him. Black orcs are average unit at best nowadays, (comparativetly at least) So Grimgor is the only real problem there. Only the Best of the best can hope to fight Grimgor and win, Im looking at Doombulls, Tyrants, and Chaos Lords,
anything else your best to try and bomb him with purple sun/Dwellers/PoS, or any other nuke you have handy, as soon as humanly possible.


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## Durzod (Nov 24, 2009)

I've found that Grimgor also does not like Word of Pain. Reducing him to WS 1 really spoils his day. Of course getting it and getting it off successfully is the trick.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Durzod said:


> I've found that Grimgor also does not like Word of Pain. Reducing him to WS 1 really spoils his day. Of course getting it and getting it off successfully is the trick.


Not extremely hard. It's only a casting value of 7+, which means in the new edition with Dark Elf arcane items, it'd be that and about 4 or 5 other spells going off. As well, choosing on doubles makes getting it easier than ever.


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## DeathsShadow (Oct 12, 2010)

Durzod said:


> I've found that Grimgor also does not like Word of Pain. Reducing him to WS 1 really spoils his day. Of course getting it and getting it off successfully is the trick.


agreed. this is a lifesaver so long as it doesnt get dispelled. dark elf magic= good


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Only fought him once, and IF'd a Strength 11 Gateway on the first turn, so it was hardly a fair fight.

But spells that work such as that should work - Law of Gold, Pit of Shades, Purple Sun and (less so) the Lore of Life which has the same effect, but Strength Test as above.

As an aside, Phoenix Guard with Wyssan's Wildform, Blades of Aiban, and Sword of Rhuin will give them a dirty little capability - S5, +1 to wound and hit, flaming, magical attacks.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I think that Final Transmutation would put a medium-sized hole in his unit of Black Orcs. Also you could try fighting him with a Mountain Hydra or Great Fire Dragon from Lore of Beasts, but I don't know how this works so it might be difficult/impossible.

Midnight


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

> Oh, Archon and Tyrion should be good matches.


lol, I'm not sure about tyrion but archaon more or less destroys any hero in the game, grimgore really wouldn't have a chance, but he shouldn't considering archaon costs almost double the points....

As far as skaven goes though, the only character that could hurt grimgore would be maybe the SC assassin snikch, but he doesnt have the strength to deal with grimgores toughness/armour.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Skaven cant counter him with characters... but they can shoot his unit to pieces fairly easily and then just charge him with a whole unit (still be less points then grimgor).


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

> Skaven cant counter him with characters...


of course not, but if any character could potentially kill him, it would be snikch, just because of the attacking first and d3 wounds possibility. But ya, skaven should just unload shots onto that unit, or try to get a few spells off.


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

I'm trying to think of a solid plan with beastmen vs. this unit/char.
Maybe feed him a large block of Ungors w/ wyssans (to lessen the wounds) and have a large unit of minotaurs tear through the flanking unit (goblins I'm guessing) to rip into his flank? 
Possibly some chariots thrown in the front as well for impact hits. Just to even the odds. 

If lucky, toss miasma or shadow hexes on his unit consistently.


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## The Meddler (Sep 25, 2010)

With Skaven, you could go Clan Pestilens and use plague priests or grey seers using lore of plague, plague means T test or take a wound, no armour save. This may not sound good, but if you cast wither beforehand (-1 T for everyone in the unit) you could reduce his unit enough to shoot the rest to death with buckets of slaves armed with slings (though tbh, this tactic would work against pretty much any deathstar unit). You can also use Dread 13th on the unit (you can laugh as the mighty Orc warlord is turned into a puny clanrat). Apart from that, fire a cannonball into his face.


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## Tatsumaki (Oct 22, 2009)

*Beastmen:*
Ooh tricky! Beastmen don't really have any hardcore combat heroes or characters. You could try throwing a hero with the blade-blunter armor under his feet, then stabbing his unit to death with 'Gors armed with Wyssan's. Or at least something like that, Beasts are tricky to use.

*Brettonia:*
Again, Brettonians tend not to excel in terms of single combat and challenges. Try sniping him to death with a Trebuchet shot. There's no excuse not to bring one of them anyways!

*Daemons of Chaos:
*Daemons have so many ways to kill this guy it's not even funny. Magic (Bolt of Change, Plague Wind) and greater daemons will both put him down. If you're feeling snarky, why not load up a Keeper of Secrets with Temptator, bring Icon of Despair, then make him start stomping through his own unit? Imagine the looks on your friends faces!

*Dark Elves:
*Nuking the unit from a distance is probably your best bet in this scenario, to be honest. You could probably kill him with an Assassin armed with killing blow, rune of khaine and black lotus too. The problem is that us elves are too feeble to risk going into unit-to-unit combat with a unit of Black Orcs as big as that, and my opponent would never let Grimor fight an assassin like that on his own. No, as Vaz put it, use horde killers.

*Dwarves:
*Ever since new rules; can you say CANNON SNIPING! .D Seriously, turning Grimgor into a red smear 60ft in the other direction to his unit is probably the best way to take the fangs out of his unit.

*High Elves:*
Same here as their Druchii cousins, they *could* rish going toe-to-toe with his bodyguard, but then using flesh to stone on a big unit of swordsmasters would be *much* funnier! Any nuking spells also useful.

*Lizardmen:
*First of all, Grimgor Shouldn't be able to stand against a properly armed Oldblood, as they tend to be absolute combat MONSTERS. Failing this, A unit of TG is more than a match for his bodyguard considering the fact they are stubborn and have access to a decent range of buff spells. Also, don't overlook Stegadon. Impact hits don't care who strikes when!

*Ogre Kingdoms:*
This is a hard one, I haven't played ogre kingdoms yet. Consider frying his unit with Leadbealchers maybe? Or you could get a big unit of Gnoblar scrappers near the general and just leave him there :/

*Skaven*:
Skaven have no shortage of access to artillery and cheap, expendable troops beyond compare. A good shot with the warp-lightening cannon would leave very few pieces of that unit to pick up! Dreaded 13th, Plague and Crack's Call also have pretty good odds at thinning out his unit.

*Empire:
*MORE CANNON SNIPING!! Empire should definitely have at *least* one cannon to pick him out of the unit. Failing that, volleyguns and rocket batteries will also kill him. Just don't go into combat with him, for the love of god!

*Tomb Kings:
*Uhmmm well my advice for this section would usually be "collect a different army", the Tomb Kings are in such a dire need of an update... Failing this, a properly kitted out combat lord should be able to cut him down on the spot... If you are *totally* certain you can't collect a new army!

*Vampire counts:
*Two words: Zombie horde. Just fight him with a big enough unit you can pretty much be assured that he's not going anywhere. Vamps are unique in being able to do this because not only do they never break, they can also come back. It's ideal.

*Warriors of Chaos:
*I wouldn't worry too hard about Grimgor... Actually he should be afraid of YOU. A combat-heavy chaos lord, with a Runeshield or the Helm of Many Eyes will probably just kick his ass. If you took a sorceror lord, then you can kill him with nuke spells. If you don't have any Lord choices at all for some reason, Hellcannon shot on his head.

*Wood Elves:
*As a rule, Hippie Elves should be quick enough not to be caught by him. Failing that, Stall for time. Get into a challenge with a Lord, silverscale armor, Annoyance of Nettlings, Talisman of Preservation, Crown of Command. God that's a pain to deal with.

This is all I could think of. Uhh, did I arrive late to the party?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Tatsumaki said:


> *Beastmen:**Ogre Kingdoms:*
> This is a hard one, I haven't played ogre kingdoms yet. Consider frying his unit with Leadbealchers maybe? Or you could get a big unit of Gnoblar scrappers near the general and just leave him there :/


I really dont like leadbelchers (they tend to explode and not kill any enemies) but gnoblars would work as a tarpit if the general is close by... but hten you really dont need to tarpit with ogres. Ogres kill stuff, there are quite a few bruiser builds (hero) that could take on grimgor and most tyrants could walk him with very little difficulty.
Most ogre players would prefer to see grimgor and a big nasty unit of something hard rather then lots and lots of units of cheap stuff... the attrition would be a killer


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