# What would YOU choose as the next 3 Army Books?



## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Saw a similar thread in the 40k section and it got me thinking, after the tomb kings book in may, if you had the choice, what 3 books would YOU choose to re-do next?

Personally, I would like to see it go;
1) Empire. another one of the 'big 4' armies, and it's another of those 'cash cow' armies... goign with an obvious seller means there's a bit of extra cash to make up for some shortfall if another 'riskier' army doesn't sell as well.

2) Bretonnians. with the nerf to cavalry and the utter lack of choice in the army itself, these guys really need some work.
plus, there's very little variation within the knightly ranks, and the bret's have lost their biggest 'race advantage' of more characters... (imagine skaven losing 'verminous valour' or strength in numbers', or else daemons losing 'fear'?!)

3) Vampire Counts. let's face it, the 7th ed VC book was an utter failure. too easy to abuse and it was designed to excessively min/max. now though it's been hit in every way by the nerf hammer and VC players are in the same boat as the bret's; if they want to win they have to play a set list that's boring and abusive...
OR
Wood Elves. 8th ed pretty much made the army all but unplayable unless you again stick to 1 set list that revolves around forest spirits and not elves... the woodies are tricky though, because unless GW give them more rank and file options, 8th just isn't the edition for them.
the other problem being that so many people have been turned off by the army's utter lack of compatibility with 8th, it could turn out that no one buys them even if they do get the army book treatment...

As far as books that don't need updates anytime soon, I'd be utterly bewildered to see the following armies get books before the end of next year as they really don't need help right now;
- High Elves
- Dark Elves
- Lizardmen
- Chaos Warriors
- Daemons of Chaos
- Skaven
- Beastmen

So what are your thoughts?
Cheers!


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Bretonnians
Wood Elf
Kislev/or other new army


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Bretonnians
Ogres
Wood Elves

The character of the Bretonnian army used to be Knights! with strong Knightly Heroes leading from the front. But now it's peasants lead by a Prophetess. They need to reinvigorate the poor book, bring back all the named heroes, the Champion replacement characters for KotR, Errants and Questing Knights etc. And make some Knights T4 so they have a chance in a slogfest.


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## HiveMinder (Feb 8, 2010)

1. Bretonnians - with the 8e hit to the effectiveness of cavalry, they need some fresh rules and options to bring them back up to par.

2. Vampire Counts - with the change in how fear works, all of the undead are now horribly overpriced. And with the Magic Phase not being as potent as it used to be, the VC have a much harder time raising the undead masses. (Also, with a new army book, it might give them a reason to make plastic Blood Knights and Black Knights).

3. Tomb Kings - although I know they're already slated for release soon, they really need the update. Not only are they multiple editions out of date, but they too suffer from overpricing due to the new fear rules. Also, they need to have their Magic brought into alignment with current power.


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## Flindo (Oct 30, 2010)

Lizardmen and Skaven, I dont really have a third.


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## Gharof von Carstein (May 19, 2008)

lol lizardmen and skaven need a new book? ya maybe to fix em. After TK the next three books should be:

-Ogres, they desperatly need new models and new rules. they dont suck so bad now but the army is seriously lacking in tactical choices compared to all the others
-wood elves, the elves who get no love from GW need to finally get said loving.
-i wanna say bretonnians here seeing as the wood elf remark can go for them as well. however id like to see VC done much more. this army means so much to me and the way its been cut down from mildly overpowered (still lost to demons, dark elves and lizardmen) to around bottom tier is just heart breaking.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I think I would like to see:

1. Brettonions. They are meant to be cool knights yet apparently it is cooler to use peasants.

2. Wood Elves. I certainly in particular want a focus on the elves and bring back Ariel.

3. Dwarfs. They certainly are popular and I know they have been waiting less than some but quite a few of the models like the Gyrocopter and the Flame cannon look really guly whilst other units like ironbreakers and hammerers look too static in my eyes.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Don't play fantasy but a new army book for one of these races might see me tempted to start playing.

Bretonnians , Dwarves and Vampire Counts. I would explain, but I'd just be repeating what's mentioned above. Also, the Empire had an army book released in early 2009/10 sometime. 

Bane of Kings Out.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I'd definitely like to see these three get redone. And more like how they were designed with the edition before them. Especially Empire.

1. Empire- The newer edition raped how to use knights. Now you have to use throw away all the cannon choices so that you can use your inner circle. 

2. Bretonians- I remember when they first came out they brought a lot of cash to GW. Thats until people started playen. Army turned out to be utter crap.

3. Lizardmen- I'd actually like to see some of the units in this army be pretty hardcore. They are an army I'd like to play because of look. But some of their units need to be dominant to attract more attention.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> ... Also, the Empire had an army book released in early 2009/10 sometime.


Nope, Empire was January 2007.

Empire or Dwarfs would be a good fit I think as far as a 'big 4' release;
- Empire need some very slight tweeks to bring them fully in line with 8th. (ie: fix the arch lector & warrior priests!) and on the model front, they could desperately use a new knightly orders kit with all the bells & wistles, plus a plastic war alter kit.

- Dwarfs don't need too much in the way of rules fixes, 8th has really made them into a potent infantry force! Just a few tweeks so that it's possible to get at least 1 spell off against them and remove all those silly 0-1 restrictions.
Dwarfs are far more in need though of the plastic treatment. perahps a combined kit for longbeards/hammerers, a big plastic war machine or anvil, plastic slayers and plastic ironbreakers...

Lizardmen, Skaven & Chaos Warriors are the absolute last armies that *need* a new book...:headbutt: Those armies are easily the tops in 8th ed when you take away all the other nasty power builds like teclis and power scroll crap...

Cheers!


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## 13713 (Jan 26, 2011)

Bretonnians, Dogs of War, Wood Elves as much as it pains me to say it they really need a new army book. Dogs of War because when I first started playing the book came out and it was an amazing idea at the time.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Well, Orcs just got a new one... And Lizardmen a few years ago... So... No idea, Dwarfs?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

TK, Ogres and WE all really need new army books for different reasons. I would also love chaos dwarves and dogs of war to get new books but that isnt going to happen anytime soon.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> Also, the Empire had an army book released in early 2009/10 sometime.


They did? Where?

Me?

Cathay
Tilean City States
Nehekhara (Pre-Nagash Tomb Kings, basically).

Well, actually, GW can sack it; as long as FW do it; I'm happy.


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

The selfish part of me wants to say: Chaos Dwarves, Kislev, Beastmen (*explain that one later*)

I'd genuninely like to see new books for: Brettonia, Chaos Dwarves, Ogres

*Brettonia* needs something to add more potency into their all cav. armies. Or at least beef up their foot soldiers...or offer some options for dealing with the masses of infantry. They're a gorgeous army, with fun lore. I'd like to see them get the love they deserve.

* Chaos Dwarves*: Everyone is itching to get back into these guys or at least see them make a re-appearance on the field. When I was a kid, I saved up for weeks of lawn mowing earnings for the 'Lammasu' model. I had never played WH, or really knew what it was, but damned if I didn't love fantasy and minis. 
(I lived in Florida. Deep Florida. Mowing lawns in summer was damn near inhuman for a 7-9 year old)
There's many new lines out there, mantic etc, and even glimpses of the work that GW does in the Hell-cannon. They would sell a good amount with dwarven lovers that want something different and people with a penchant for demon powered mayhem in brass and steel.
It's a diverse book, with nothing else really like it. Black orcs bound to the will of their masters, hobgoblins, Chaos Centaurs (i'm sure putting the centigors to SHAME), solid infantry, warmachines with amazing effects.

Really, I'd trade my WoC for that right now. 

*Ogres*, well, admittedly, I don't know them well. But monstrous infantry armies have a high mountain to climb. Ogres are rough and terrible, but with one 6 die casting of one spell....well, that can end a whole tournament game for them. They need some attention or at least an update.

I mentioned Beastmen. We were designed in 7th, with 8th in mind. However, 8th hadn't really been playtested. Our core infantry is good, some specials very rock solid. Our rares....well, they're nothing short of a laughing joke. As an infantry army, we really don't have many dimensions with our current choices. There's some damn fun armies to build, but not much variety in terms of actual competition. Most of the units are either fairly cost (which is good) or 20-30% overpriced. The book deserves another look, an update, errata...etc. Maybe not a re-do, but at least just a good look.
(rant over)


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

You'll enjoy Warhamer Forge then, blackspine. They are producing a line of Chaos Dwarf models, with eventual plans to release a full useable army later on, in a slow dribble; in the meanwhile allowing more siege materials and whatnot.



> Edgar Skomorowski and Steve Whitehead have been hard at work on Chaos Dwarf miniatures in recent weeks, and their desks are strewn with concept sketches, armour and weapons reference, and brutal-looking work-in-progress models. Oddly, Steve’s desk also a series of anatomical diagrams that detail bovine musculature...
> Keith Robertson is currently tinkering with giants; that is giants equipped with armour, huge grappling claws and some suspiciously mutated details! Meanwhile Mark Bedford’s current project is a very large monster, and rather more dedicated to the Horned Rat...


Bovine Musculature - combined with previous artwork, Bull Centaur's are a-coming. Giants - a Chaos Dwarf variant. Horned Rat - perhaps a fuck off Hell Pit Abominable Abomination, or a new Greater Verminlord.


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

Oh cool!
thanks a ton man. I'll check them out.
Mantic has a line of Chaos Dwarves. They're not too shabby. They look like D&D dwarves or robot-manga stunties. I can't decide.


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## Gharof von Carstein (May 19, 2008)

have to somewhat agree with blackspine, been playing beastmen. however i think things will level out somewhat with the new army books coming out. the new O&G release is not overpowered when compared to 8th. skaven will get fixed later which is a tough match up for beastmen as well. the rest should be designed with as much metagame balance in mind as possible. regretably i dont believe it will happen like that but man can i hope


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Ogres, Brettonians, Wood Elves. VC are an easy fourth. These guys all need updates.

Although what I'd like to see is Cathay and Tilea (or Dogs of War)


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

ckcrawford said:


> 3. Lizardmen- I'd actually like to see some of the units in this army be pretty hardcore.


Are you having a giraffe squire? Hardcore is exactly what Lizardmen are, T4 globally (apart from skinks). Plus the cold-blooded rule means that they never run. Temple Guard are a bloody nightmare to kill.

Skinks are probably the most annoying units in the game as they are so cheap and when you load them up with blow pipes, even if you use the double shot and are at long range so that you need sixes to hit, who cares, it's ignoring toughness.

Before you start facepalming I would never say they were overpowered but I would definitely say they were Hardcore. It always turns into a slogfest against the old Lizzies.

Armies that should get new rule books:

1.VC as the magic needs to be sorted and also to bring them in line with the Horde mentality.

2. Tomb Kings (I realise they are in line) 

3. Brets, a mostly cavalry army when cavalry has been nerfed a bit.


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

I couldn't agree more on Lizardmen.
They have something very powerful for pretty much every phase of the game.
Their core can duke it out with the best, and sometimes the elite.
Magic not withstanding, their infantry is top notch.
with magic....well....

They should be very low on the list.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> Bretonnians
> Ogres
> Wood Elves


This, this, this!


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

1) Brettonians. I like the imagery of the army, and knights in general, but right now they're pretty far behind the power curve. One of their most powerful magic items was completely invalidated, as well, so I'd say they're due for an update.

2) Tomb Kings. Despite the fact that their color scheme is boring as hell, they're an interesting army with the potential for stupidly powerful characters. Basically, VC - Raising Troops + a Shooting Phase = TK. Maybe update the color scheme too...a lot of the models are pretty bland.

3) Wood Elves. They have the potential to be really awesome and cool, but right now they're missing something. I don't know what it is, but they don't have it. Oh, and get rid of the Hail of Doom Arrow. Please.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

Bretts, wood elves, ogres mainly because these are the army books most affected by the new rules and partly because hopefully by the time these are done GW will have got the hardback overpriced thing out of their system and will go back to cheaper soft cover on the books I need.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

1. Tomb Kings. They are quite appropriately next, what with how friggin' weak they are right now. Just a glance at the point cost will tell you that they've gone to long without an update. Whether my friend plays them against my Dark Elves or my Lizardmen, they just get trounced, and the most he can pull is perhaps killing *one* of my units.

2. Brettonians. Their gimmick has been nerfed so bad in 8th that they need to get some boosts for it to work again. Devastating Charge and being able to go first with lances might help.

3. Wood Elves. Just like with Brettonians, just not so hard. They don't need new models as such, just a few boosts to get them back up to 8th standards.


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## steamius (Dec 9, 2010)

1) tomb kings. Really how old are they? Look at them they all are dust! They really are the number one on the list!
2) Wood elves. There showld be more wood elves players there! They are to weak at the moment!
3) Brets or ogres. I dont play with or vs these 2 armies. But I see how well is oncebrett doing with brets at youtube that I need to say that ogres are ferst of these 2.


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

Having never played against, seen in action, nor read the wood elves book I was wondering how come they are a bit pants these days?


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Gromrir Silverblade said:


> Having never played against, seen in action, nor read the wood elves book I was wondering how come they are a bit pants these days?


Wood Elves have suffered horrifically since 8th has shifted the focus to big blocks of ranked infantry, while nerfing cav & skirmishers significantly...
Currently, the WE's have the following for ranked units;
- glade guard (but they're archers!)
- eternal guard (special unit unless you take an elf highborn, metal models, low armour save & T3)
- treekin (special unit, super expensive metal models, no command, pts heavy)

Their whole style of guerrila warfare doesn't really fare too well in 8th, and their better combat units of dryads & war dancers are skirmishers so they can never strip ranks... (if dryads at least got ranks back, they'd be rocking!) They also lack heavy cavalry and could likely do with an option for say a 3+ save & lance armed cav block. (ie: not fast cavalry so they can strip ranks!)

Their magic is also kinda bad at lower pts since they need lord level wizards to gain access to the lores of life & beasts... At least giving 1 of those options to the basic wizards would be helpfull.

Wood Elves overall have fallen into the same boat as the VC's; poor internal balance with extremely limited options to play a more competitive style list.
Both books really need addressing ASAP!

Cheers!


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## Hammer49 (Feb 12, 2011)

I would have to go with:
1) Bretonnians
2) Wood Elves (Just dont function properly under the current rules)
3) Dwarfs (neeed to make dwarf warriors without GW useable)


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## retiye2 (Oct 20, 2008)

Bretts,
Dwarves - designed for 6th edition... Printed 2005... and suffering from EVERYONE else getting about 100 new common items, I'd settle for an errata'd updated runes list tbh.
Ogres


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## hacknslashgamer (Jan 28, 2009)

Ogres, Brettonians, Wood Elves
In that order


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

bretts then bretts again then bretts again
can you tell what army i have )

in all seriousness
bretts wood elves tomb kings for me
i have a torrid enough time with ogres as it is


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## CountChocula (Jun 4, 2011)

> Empire or Dwarfs would be a good fit I think as far as a 'big 4' release;


So maybe I have just had my head in the ground for awhile but can I ask what armies the "big 4" are and what it means? Thanks!


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## Luisjoey (Dec 3, 2010)

I think keeping the logical sequence

Bretonnia
Ogre Kingdoms 
Empire

HOPE for EMPIRE because is the protagonist


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

CountChocula said:


> So maybe I have just had my head in the ground for awhile but can I ask what armies the "big 4" are and what it means? Thanks!


They're the 'traditional' big sellers of fantasy, similar to space marines in 40k... For fantasy, the Big 4 have traditionally been seen by GW as being;
Empire
Dwarfs
Orc & Goblins
Chaos Warriors

Other armies will spike and drop off, for example, daemons & VC's were all the rage in 7th, but only moderate sellers back in 6th when they were more balanced armies and/or part of a larger army...
However right now, high elves & skaven are enjoying a good following because they come in the core set, and they both have extremely competitive builds.

Still, there wasn't a single point when I worked for GW that we didn't sell a fair bit of the 'Big 4' throughout each year.

Cheers!


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

experiment 626 said:


> They're the 'traditional' big sellers of fantasy, similar to space marines in 40k... For fantasy, the Big 4 have traditionally been seen by GW as being;
> Empire
> Dwarfs
> Orc & Goblins
> Chaos Warriors


*cough*high elves*cough*. High Elves are higher on that list than dwarfs. Or maybe it's different in my area.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Fortunately, at least in my area, there's no overwhelming majority of races. A couple peopl bandwagoned on High Elves at first, but dropped out of the hobby after that. It's not like 40k, where *everyone* is wearing power armor.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

*points to thread title*
On topic please guys... there have been endless "what is common in your area" threads/polls, go find one if you want to discuss it.
T/S


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## Abomination (Jul 6, 2008)

I would choose Wood Elves, Ogre Kingdoms and Bretonnians simply because those are the most out-dated and difficult to work Army Books. Everyone else can get along fine.


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm not too sure who needs to get an update. But it will most likey be the border races and cash givers. I don't expect Wood Elves, Ogres or Beastmen any time soon. Unless they get a plan to give them awesome units (like Tomb King Sphixes and so on).

Who I'd like? I'd say Lizardmen, Vampire Counts and Wood Elves.

1. Lizardmen - The reason is they are practically statues. They have an I1. Throw Pit of Shades on them with Power Scroll and watch them die. In their dozens. Temple Guard should be different to the basic Sarus... this used to be shown with their Scaly Skin of +3 instead of +4. Yet they removed this. So... they are overpriced Saurus and if you don't field a Slann they are worthless. However I do agree they are pretty good at taking on any lineup, but against magic heavy teams they are punished. Furthermore... they have no specific lore... everybody bar Bret, Dwarf (Runes) and Humans (Blessings of Sigmar). So on.

2. Vampire Counts just to get more people into them, bit like TK. Maybe see some big undead monster. I have lots of cool ideas.

3. Same as above. Give them some tough units.


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

Reading the White Dwarf "Next Month" page on the latest White Dwarf seems that Vampire Counts are getting a brand new monster to add to their ranks. I'm not sure about codex but that's pretty cool. I hope it is a new codex, I'd buy it just to read it.


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## Calger (Jun 9, 2011)

Hopefully more is revealed than a single undead monster in next month's White Dwarf xD I saw that same comment in the back of this month's issue as well... Pretty exciting. Hopefully they'll hint to a release date for a next book or substitute point costs for some choice units *Crosses Fingers and Sacrifices a Goat*.


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

Wood Elves, Brets and Ogres, in that order.


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