# Thoughts on the new stormtalon/ ork bommas?



## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

I got White dwarf yesterday, and noticed the new kits out

Who do you guys like the models/rules?

Rules wise the storm talon looks good but model wise it's a real headturner- in the other direction! It looks aweful

The ork bommas rules look kinder meh, but the models nice

What are you thoughts?, and should i look towards fielding a storm talon?


----------



## lockeF (Feb 18, 2011)

Well I haven't seen the rules yet but overall I think all the models look good - even the talon. I personally think it looks alright, especially a little modification.


----------



## Shady ed (Sep 9, 2010)

The ork bomma looks awesome, not orky enough though.

The storm talon looks worse than the contents of my 3 month olds nappies in the morning.


----------



## kaboot (Jan 4, 2012)

Stormtalon is gross. I think they based it on the success of the Stormraven, and I think they rushed it so they could make a profit off of it. Its good business practices, sure, but ewwwwwwwwwwww.

The ork bomma looks nice, but the Necron one looks soooo nice.


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Personally I think that the initial impressions on the Storm Talon are a bit premature since we don't have the model yet (and sound like the complaints about the Storm Raven which we see being played without complaint now). I'm witholding actual criticisms for the model until we actually get it and I see it on the table. 

As for the Ork stuff they look good. I have no idea how the rules for any of this will work, but overall it's nice to see older books getting some updates. Now if they could just get those old codex books inline and we'd be okay.


----------



## Shady ed (Sep 9, 2010)

I never had a problem with the Storm Raven but the Storm Talon looks like some squished the Raven down and added guns under the cockpit.

Without the guns there I think it would look fine so I plan on buying one and spending hours finding a better location for the weapons.


----------



## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Stormtalon ........ Bleurk

Just to recap

Bleurk.


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

StormTalon would make for a nice Helicopter with the right parts added. 

I intend to get the cron flyer at some point, but I don't like the exposed cockpit.


----------



## Silens (Dec 26, 2010)

Stormtalon looks crap.

Ork Bommas look sweet.

Necron Scythes look great! Aside from the paint scheme. I don't like the paint scheme they've done. : /


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Don't like the storm raven, its squat and ugly but the talon just takes it to ludicrous levels. Seriously, if I had one word to use to describe this thing it would be 'ludicrous', which is never a good start for a model. They might be little plastic toys, but when they start looking like they are designed to appeal to babies to teeth on then there is nothing for it but to sigh and move on.


On the other hand the ork bommer and necron scythe kits are gorgeous. I'm loving the necron vehicles we've got recently (with a minor exception of the ultramarine fanboy ghost ark) and the design of all the ork vehicles has always been good: take a well designed basis from real life, imagine that someone has tried to rebuild it with scrap and throw on lots of extra weapons= instant cool looking ork vehicle.
I was very worried that the scythe was going to be huge (vlak sized), but it looks from the pictures that its closer to a rhino, which means that they should fit decently on the tabletop, couple that with its classical necron lines and sleek design and you have a winner. I don't know where I'm going to find the points but a night scythe is definately going to be added to my necron army.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

The Stormtalon I like. 

The Ork Bommer is awesome. 

The Necron one without a cockpit looks ok. Apart from the no cockpit part. Why??!


----------



## jpunk (Feb 8, 2009)

I've already pre-ordered 2 talons, which I will be basing this years ToS list around. It's better designed than the stormraven, imo, but nowhere near as good as the FW stormeagle. They seem to be coming up with a front heavy, attack-helicoptery aesthetic for SM flyers, which is improving as it goes along.

Anyway, it looks like what it looks like, lets face it, they're gonna get used regardless, so we might as well talk rules...

The new skyhammer missiles look good. If the hull points mechanic comes in with sixth, then these babies could, given good rolling, pulp rhino's, chimera's, kans etc with one round of shooting, and would still be useful for anti-infantry afterwards. Also, this is clearly for use with hover-strike as who needs BS 5 when all your other weapons are twin linked?

The escort craft rule is also kind of interesting. Codex SM need some reserve trickery that doesn't come in the form of a crap psyker. Can think of some good uses for it when following an assault squad in from reserve, for instance. Keeps it nice and safe and can then pop open that tin can before your assault squad tears the contents a new one. 

All in all, as an ultramarine player, I'm pretty chuffed with this, especially as it doesn't look like we're going to get that extra layer of rules that every other SM book has that makes them, you know, good, this time of x-mas 2013.

Haven't really had a good look at the orky rules, nor the necron ones, so can't comment.


----------



## HOGGLORD (Jan 25, 2012)

The stormtalon is worse looking than the stormraven, which makes it slightly less aerodynamic than two stompas attached together with duct tape and pritt-sticks. 

The Ork planes are good, if not a little to smooth looking, need to be more 'made from the first few bits of scrap I could find'-ish 

The necron thing looks good, no fan of the paint scheme but the open cockpit works fine for me. For the necrons, the g-forces of a arial battle aren't really that bad are they?


----------



## Ninjurai (Mar 31, 2010)

Doelago said:


> The Necron one without a cockpit looks ok. Apart from the no cockpit part. Why??!


I would have liked something to the effect of a cockpit aswell, however it makes sense to not have one with necrons not needing air or proper aerodynamics in order to fly.


----------



## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

i dont like the storm talon, but if i were to buy one i would need some serious TLC to make it look better (or just buy a GI Joe Helicopter and add lascannons to it).

the ork fighta-bomba looks nice, not the greatest rules (no real anti-armor) which is a shame; but im getting one.


----------



## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Would it be ok for me to use the stormtalon as part of a blood angles list?

And my quick replie box doesnt appear anymore!


----------



## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

I have reviewed the models and my personal thoughts are

*The Space Marine - Stormtalon Gunship*
*(click for 360 view)*
​
Personally I think it looks far too toy-like and lot like an Apache AH64 hybrid - so no.. doesn't garner any affection from me - thus doubtful to make my army lists - sadly

Perhaps a more rustic - paint job with cracked glass and battle scars might endear me... maybe....


*The Space Ork - Ork Bomber*
*(click for 360 view)*
​
I have to admit, I do like this model, its very Orkish - however it does need an Ork armour kit to be stuck on as it does a look a little too fabricated in places, so some more hodge-podge armour to beark up some of the neat surface would make this a fantastic model!


*The Necron - Night Scythe*
*(click for 360 view)*
​
Now, please dont take this the wrong way Necron players - but I found this model the least inspired, I have found it too reminiscent of the Eldar grav-tanks in terms of shape. Sadly because of its uninspired nature I am inclined to see this as the worst model of the three released, - such a pity as those new Necron Wraiths are a delicious site to see in terms of models.... but this.... personally I think is a step back model wise.

please note this is just my opinion, and its about as valid or as authoritative as that blade of grass on the lawn.


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> StormTalon would make for a nice Helicopter with the right parts added.
> 
> I intend to get the cron flyer at some point, but I don't like the exposed cockpit.


This is more along the same lines I have planned for mine. I am ripping off the back wing mounted turbines and adding a set of rotor blades to the top. Then adding two sets of missile systems under the wings as a Typhoon Missile Launcher and the Assault Cannons mounted on either side of the vehicle. Maybe add some landing skidds to make it proper apache like.


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Remove the assault cannons from the stormtalon, take off the engines and convert it into a helicopter and I think it could look really cool... or remove the assault cannons and remount the engines under the back of the craft and I think it'll look good.

... basically, I think that if you removed those assault cannons then it'll look fairly good. I like the cockpit and the lascannon mounts are funky. I just think the engines and the under-slung cannons make it look squat and ugly. Squat and ugly is fine when that's the look of an army, but for a 'clean' line army like SM I think it really doesn't fit.


----------



## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

If I ever get a stormtalon- I'll take of the assault cannons and try and find somewhere to mount them- but where?...


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> I intend to get the cron flyer at some point, but I don't like the exposed cockpit.


I agree 100%. I would have liked them to make this kit as they did the DE venom, and give the modeler an opportunity to go with a sealed cockpit or an open one. 

As to the stormtalon (or the ork flyers for that matter), I've yet to see the rules for them so I'll have to wait before fully weighing in. Looking at GW's website however, I've picked up a little bit. It looks like the ST has a large amount of special rules (definitely more than normal): _"Aerial Assault, Escort Craft, Hover Strike, & Supersonic"_. I'm familiar with Aerial assault and Supersonic (both nice rules), but not with Escort Craft and Hover Strike. 

The three ork planes are even more varied in their special rules. Each of the three planes not only have their own combinations of them, but a nice variety of new weapons as well (super shoota, burna bombs, etc.). The ST also has a nice array of weapon options that allow it to be kitted out for a wide variety of battlefield roles. 

As far as aesthetics, the Ork flyers look pretty good. I agree with the previous comments however, about them not being quite orky enough (needs to be a bit more scrapped together, like there's no way any two of them could be alike). I'm not a huge fan of the ST, but I wouldn't slap the hideous label on it. I guess I'd say I'm probably somewhere in the middle. Come to think of it, I didn't like the stormraven when it first came out either. Over time though, it grew on me. I imagine the ST will probably be that way too.


I do have a few questions...

(1.) Is the release of the ST a sign from GW that when the next marine dex comes out, vanilla players will not have access to the stormraven? I.e. vanilla gets the ST and BA+GK get the SR?

(2) What roll will the ST have in the space marine arsenal? At AV 11 and sporting a twin linked assault cannon + either a twin linked heavy bolter, twin linked las cannon, typhoon missile launcher, or (as yet to be defined) skyhammer missile launcher... it seems like it might be something in between a land speeder tornado/typhoon and a predator tank. More mobile but not as heavily armored as a pred, and more heavily armored with a better firepower to maneuverability ratio (due to "Aerial Assault") but presumably more expensive than a land speeder tornado/typhoon. So... what role do you see this vehicle playing, and why wouldn't you just take a pred with better survivability or a land speeder with comparable firepower and mobility, but for less points (again, presumably less points)? 

Keep in mind... I've yet to see what "Escort Craft" & "Hover Strike" do, so maybe these two rules make the answer to this question obvious.


----------



## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

@Uber-Ork

I thought that the new flyer rules / load-outs and points costs are published in the new White Dwarf?


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Zetronus said:


> @Uber-Ork
> 
> I thought that the new flyer rules / load-outs and points costs are published in the new White Dwarf?


Yes they are. After 7 years of having a WD subscription, I decided (primarily due to financial reasons) to terminate my subscription this year. Ironically, my last WD was the one just previous this.  

I could always stop by my FLGS and flip through the pages concerning the ST/ork flyers, etc. I've been a bit busy lately and unable to do so. However, I don't think either of my questions have lost their validity due to this. 

I could be wrong, but I doubt my first question was answered in WD. After 7 years of owning and reading every issue, I have a pretty good feel for what WD does and does not divulge. What is and isn't included in the next marine dex won't be discussed in WD until the issue that reviews its release. When that happens, most likely there'll be a Q&A between a White Dwarfer and the codex's author. At that point something like the stormraven/ST availability will be covered. 

My second question could definitely be affected by the "Escort Craft" & "Hover Strike" special rules (i.e. they're so amazing that you would always choose a ST over a land speeder tornado/typhoon or Predator). However, I would still be interested in people's response as to role will the ST have in the space marine arsenal. No need to detail the special rules. One can simply steer clear of them, or say "yes they really are going to be the reason people will choose a ST over a LS or Pred."


----------



## Crimson Shadow (Jan 15, 2009)

The more I look at the Storm talon the more I like it. I think it looks better without the engines tilted. 

Now that being said, my only two Power armored armies are allowed to take Storm Ravens, so that precludes me from using them. Or does it?

I'm picking up two of these for use in my 5e casual games because my friends won't mind. Then once 6e rolls around, and they allow allies which I'm hearing alot of support for, I'll be able to use them legally. Otherwise, still use them in friendly games, so it's win-win.


----------



## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Zetronus said:


> I have reviewed the models and my personal thoughts are
> 
> *The Space Marine - Stormtalon Gunship*
> *(click for 360 view)*
> ...


Actually the Necron Scythe is more modeled after the Necron BFG ships. Since this is actually a spacefighter it makes sense it would look like that.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

The Storm Talon looks awesome. I like it and thats that. Plus, the options for it are sweet.


----------



## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr (Apr 3, 2012)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> The Storm Talon looks awesome. I like it and thats that. Plus, the options for it are sweet.


no suprise that you like an ultramarine toy, Jace. XD


----------



## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

The_Werewolf_Arngeirr said:


> no suprise that you like an ultramarine toy, Jace. XD


Yup, none at all. What the real 'cool factor' for me comes to is the VTOL wings/engines. I honestly would've expected something more along the lines of a Y-Wing for marines (which would've also been awesome) but, this actually exceeded my expectations... which in all fairness I had zero expectations. I heard more than a month ago, "Fliers in the summer" and said cool. Didn't know what to expect and with the sketches that showed up on Beast of War I was moderately excited. But, when I picked up a WD on Thursday and saw the models my initial thoughts were;

Storm Talon, sweet.
Orc fliers, nice. Wish I played Orc.
Necron... Dood! It's a flying Croissant of Death!


----------



## cranvill (Jul 20, 2008)

personnly i like all three models and carnt see what all the fussing is about. As for the rules i havent read this mounths WD yet by looking at the rules on GW id say they have some good opstions.

I will defanetly be buying a couple of orky burna bombas as i play nids an guards a lot, an my salamanders have just been given a storm raven and i can see it getting escorted by a storm talon very soon also.

As for the necon banana i dont play necrons but it still looks good.


----------



## dtq (Feb 19, 2009)

kiro the avenger! said:


> If I ever get a stormtalon- I'll take of the assault cannons and try and find somewhere to mount them- but where?...


I reckon the assault cannons from the ravenwing sprue would look ok on the ends of the wings? Hard to say not really having a handle on the scale of the model. But those assault cannons are pretty small...


----------



## Ferrous (Aug 21, 2011)

Who the hell designed the Stormtalon, it's a mess. Landing gear on the chin mounted gun, swivelling engines too far behind the centre of gravity to allow it to hover, wings too stuby to provide any lift, as aerodynamic as a brick, a really ugly brick, and a cockpit with what looks like a shaped charge intended to shater a perspex dome not a steel reinforced windshield. Right, that's my rant. Anyone else?


----------



## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

@Ferrous

Succinctly put, I doubt I could say it any better.


Personally I would buy two kits - mash-em with a double cockpit - one droped bellow and off center... with twin links mount infront of that.

three engines - two either side with a two pronged tail for the rear and the third engine nestled in the middle between them...

this machine isn't aerodynamic in the slightest but its achieves its missives with sheer power.


----------



## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Personally I think gw is seriously barking up the wrong tree with their designs for space marine flyers. The original thunderhawk is a magnificent model. But for some reason they seem to take all the wrong aspects of that model and exaggerate them for the smaller flyers. They make the models smaller and blockier and just start tacking weapons all over them. The valk on the other hand is a magnificent model, the bommer is great and the new necron flier is a step in the right direction also. The lightning, thunderbolt and marauder are also fantastic. Even if gw had styled the new flyers based on the land speeder we would have ended up with a far better line of models.
The weapons are too large and the hulls are too blocky, sometimes I think it just to get a unit with more guns and rules to impress the punters with the minimum of plastic. I think the storm raven and storm talon are best used as parts to build more reasonable looking flyers.
And it is a bit of a worry when the orks have a more air worthy looking flyer than the marines.


----------



## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

I feel the only way to justify taking a storm Talon over a landspeeder typhoon would be when the new 6th Ed rules come out that will give flyers some kind of advantage over normal skimmers. In the WD there is a bit in the hover strike rules that say that the vehicle becomes a skimmer when doing a hover strike yet it is already given the type of Skimmer in the vehicle description.

This is probably meaning that there will be flyer rules in the 40K 6th Ed as well as possibly plus and minus on to hit rolls depending on unit type.

With it's current weapons load out there is very little difference in damage output at longe range between a typoon or the talon especailly given the points cost in upgrades to make the strom talon more anti tank viable. It's best option is to takethe typhoon missle launcher upgrade and sit and hover strike at the back of the board. It's weapon options and use make it competing against the typhoon, just a lot more expensive for some more tricks.


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

shaantitus said:


> Personally I think gw is seriously barking up the wrong tree with their designs for space marine flyers. The original thunderhawk is a magnificent model. But for some reason they seem to take all the wrong aspects of that model and exaggerate them for the smaller flyers. They make the models smaller and blockier and just start tacking weapons all over them.


While the SR has grown on me and ST bit by bit is doing the same, I think you've captured the sentiment quite well of _*why*_ at first they don't apeal to me. 






Lash Machine said:


> I feel the only way to justify taking a storm Talon over a landspeeder typhoon would be when the new 6th Ed rules come out that will give flyers some kind of advantage over normal skimmers. In the WD there is a bit in the hover strike rules that say that the vehicle becomes a skimmer when doing a hover strike yet it is already given the type of Skimmer in the vehicle description.
> 
> This is probably meaning that there will be flyer rules in the 40K 6th Ed...


That makes sense. Especially after learning what "Hover Strike" does. Having the unit classified as a skimmer and then giving it a special rule making it one as well, seems a bit redundant. Maybe this does indeed potentially point towards flyer/skimmer changes in 6th edition. 




Lash Machine said:


> With it's current weapons load out there is very little difference in damage output at longe range between a typoon or the talon especailly given the points cost in upgrades to make the strom talon more anti tank viable. It's best option is to takethe typhoon missle launcher upgrade and sit and hover strike at the back of the board. It's weapon options and use make it competing against the typhoon, just a lot more expensive for some more tricks.


The main difference is that the ST will be able to move and fire more effectively having the "Aerial Assault" rule. I'll be curious to check out a copy of WD at my FLGS and see how many points the ST is verses land speeders with similar weapon load outs. 

With the limited knowledge I have now (not having seen this month's WD), it's hard for me to see the clear role that a ST will play in the space marine arsenal verses a similarly equipped land speeder or pred.




.


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

The new ork planes are awesome! They make me want to play my ork army again.


----------



## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

Love the look of the new ork kit. Haven't seen the rules yet (only what's on the GW site and they don't explain them).

I'm considering looking around for a couple of model airplane kits so that I can make all three, if I can find them cheap.


----------



## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

I absolutely love the ork kit, whenever I have money Im planning in buying a couple and transforming it into valkyries count as, the rest are meh..


----------



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Don't overly care what they look like what maters to me is how they work on the table.


----------



## Marius_Ruberu (Feb 15, 2012)

I dont play orks but I will have to buy one of the bombers. They look freaking awesome. Stormtalon on the other hand, I think I will stick with my Predators tricked out with lascannons. The original space marine ships look awesome, the latest two look like flying dumpsters but, the stormtalon does remind me of the drop ship in Starship Troops.


----------



## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

.[/QUOTE]

The main difference is that the ST will be able to move and fire more effectively having the "Aerial Assault" rule. 

.[/QUOTE]

This is true but in terms of anti tank and getting the assualt cannons into range and on the side or rear armour of a target, which is ideally what a typhoon will do, is 155 points versus 90 points. you are paying an extra 65 points for possibly +1 BS or the ability to fire two weapons at 12" and an extra point of armour. Seeing as two typhoons come in at 180 points the benefits must surely lie in being a flyer which we will know about in a months time.

Or it will still make very little difference in getting the best out of it.


----------



## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

All the options for the ST are very nice, but as Lash Machine says, their role is essentially the same as a land speeder which does it for cheaper, albeit without the bells and whistles. There's probably room for them, but the speeders seem to fulfill their role better.


----------



## TechPr1est (Nov 6, 2011)

man i wish we had an arial battle with tonnes of those fightas

anyway storm talon is meh ork bomma is ok i guess but not enough....................stuff u know ork stuff like possibly more add on bits (dont ask what i have no idea what im on about) but the necron thing is the worst the only difference between the night one and the doom one is a weapon on the bottom thats all. i hate it when they take a photo of a new model and place the same model over somewhere else in the back ground to give the illusion of many painted modelsbut hey only painted one, its like in the ork codex theres a picture of a sample army and one of the squads is actually three different squads, they just move it around and merge it into one. also in the imperial guard 4th edition codex there is a picture of the cadian 8th and loads of guardsman. and i got all excited until i realised one chimera looked exactly like all of the other chimeras and then i realised that there isnt actually 1000-ish guardsman painted all in one spot there is only aboout twenty of them and alot of photoshop


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

TechPr1est said:


> anyway storm talon is meh ork bomma is ok i guess but not enough....................stuff u know ork stuff like possibly more add on bits (dont ask what i have no idea what im on about) but the necron thing is the worst the only difference between the night one and the doom one is a weapon on the bottom thats all. i hate it when they take a photo of a new model and place the same model over somewhere else in the back ground to give the illusion of many painted modelsbut hey only painted one, its like in the ork codex theres a picture of a sample army and one of the squads is actually three different squads, they just move it around and merge it into one. also in the imperial guard 4th edition codex there is a picture of the cadian 8th and loads of guardsman. and i got all excited until i realised one chimera looked exactly like all of the other chimeras and then i realised that there isnt actually 1000-ish guardsman painted all in one spot there is only aboout twenty of them and alot of photoshop


I'm not often stuck for words . . . but what exactly did you just say there? Is it just me or did that not make any sense?


----------



## TechPr1est (Nov 6, 2011)

yeah i have a tooth ache and it kinda all came out at once
yeah


----------



## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

I loved the bommer, I'd been mulling over getting the ork fighta-bommer for ages (was going to be a wedding gift off my mrs) so seeing this just made me buy the cheaper plazzy one instead. Looking forwards to the order from wayland arriving.

At first glance I thought the SM one looked a bit cack, but it grew on me over the space of about an hour, and I ordered one for my wolves too. May extend the bit at the back of it, but all in all, I like the model!


----------



## stevey293 (Aug 16, 2011)

Tooth ache in your fingers god your body really is screwed up lol. 

Not a fan of any of the gw or forgeworld airframes. I know its only wee models but as a non gamer they are all useless and ugly to me none look capible of actually flying which kinda bugs me its not hard.


----------



## ArchangelPaladin (Jul 7, 2010)

This new flyers release is so typical of the “We’re a model company” mentality that GW has, and now I’m a sad panda. The models are so cool, I’d like to get one or two of the ork flyers, but the rules are such absolute rubbish I’d never use them in a game. I’ve already wasted a lot of money and time painting models that don’t get used, and I’m done buying models for the coolness factor, if a model isn’t functional then it’s not worth anything to me.


----------



## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

+1 to ArchanglePaladin 

form and function are paramount to an army!


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

stevey293 said:


> Tooth ache in your fingers god your body really is screwed up lol.
> 
> Not a fan of any of the gw or forgeworld airframes. I know its only wee models but as a non gamer they are all useless and ugly to me none look capible of actually flying which kinda bugs me its not hard.


when given enough thrust and computers anything will fly. See the F22 and B-2 Spirit


----------



## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

> when given enough thrust and computers anything will fly. See the F22


Now flying without killing its pilot is another story.


----------



## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

That is an issue with the oxygen system, the plane flies fine.


----------

