# Primarch Pairs



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Which of the following do you guys think would be the best Primarch pairs. I've listed them both the traitor and loyal ones... and yes even the dead ones. Keep in mind whether their legions would work together well, and each of the primarchs and legions abilities.

The Scenario: Each of these primarchs and all their legions are present on this planet with enough time to build a fort and establish themselves. Each is assigned a team death match partner. OF WHICH I ASSIGNED. I seriously don't care if you guys like the proposed teams. Lol. But you can vent, I don't care. Anyhow, they are only allowed to use man power(marine power), forts, thunderhawks and ground vehichals. No fleets are in this, no daemons or slaves, however daemon princes and possessed are okay as long as they were marines. And no inquisition. Let the Heretics decide I say and vote!

And no... I am not putting up the invincible unknown primarchs. We know Goku and Vegeta kick everyones ass. lol.:grin:


----------



## hippypancake (Jul 14, 2010)

Angron and Leman Russ

they and their legions would just rape anything with pure force xD


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Horus+Russ would be one hell of a spear tip and I think their tactics might work well together.


----------



## Capt.Al'rahhem (Jan 24, 2009)

I gotta go with Alpharius and Jaghatii Khan, with the bike mounted hit & run attacks of the White Scars & the SNEAK ATTACK! of the Alpha Legion they would tear most any force to shreads. Every time you focused on one attack you'd be hit from the rear, then both forces would fade away and attack from another direction. It's just down right scary to me, death by 1000 paper cuts. I was reading down the list of pairs think yeah they're powerful, they're tough, not bad, when I got to the last one it was like "Holy Shit!" those 2 Legions would work so well together.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Angron and Saguinius. The two Primarchs and legions combined would make an utterly terrifying melee


----------



## The_Inquisitor (Jul 19, 2008)

Perturabo and Rogal Dorn. You couldn't ever take my fortress but I could sure as hell take yours. Crazy ass mofos like the world eaters and space wolves still couldn't get past an Imperial Fist Fortress, no matter how much they shouted .

L.


----------



## BrainFreeze (Oct 9, 2008)

Alpharius and Jaghatii Khan, You wouldnt end up fighting them, the White Scars would start picking off your flanks forcing you to either follow them or give you one exit out which would have you end up fightingone of the other armies that the Alpha Legion gave intel to so they would know where you are going..


----------



## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

Well, you're kind of giving it away when you say they can build a fortress. With both the siege specialists on the same team... It's gonna get messy.

Perturabo and Dorn for this one.


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Cruor99 said:


> Well, you're kind of giving it away when you say they can build a fortress. With both the siege specialists on the same team... It's gonna get messy.
> 
> Perturabo and Dorn for this one.


Ah, but maybe Perturabo and Dorn would constantly splitting their forces, and trying to be better than one another. It's also about he relationship each pair has with one another and whether that relationship would interfere with how they were against the other pairs. You could also imply that the other legions not build huge fortifications and not attack ones with fortifications. 

I chose Perturabo and Dorn because I think their rivalry would just push each more to excel their skills against the other pairs. According the first Heresy novel, Dorn was second in line to victories to Horus. Perturabo in my opinion never really got the chance to show what he was capable of during the Great Crusade as most of his Legion was baby sitting planets and doing the hard and longer sieges. In many cases looking at how Perturabo has maintained his legion in the 40k world today speaks highly of him having his shit together.
Aso having no support with fleet and help from the Imperium Perturabo is a important tool to have as he was a genius in technology. He'd invent some crazy stuff.


----------



## Bloody Mary (Nov 6, 2009)

I'd have to go with Jaghatai Khan and Alpharius. First, you've got Space Marines preforming fast attacks and you can't respond. Then, you realize the enemy knows waaay too much about your troops, tactics and strategy. And then when you start talking with your wife/husband you suddenly realize she/he's a bit too big and too bald...


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Alpharius and Khan aren't a bad combo. I'm thinking in terms of their personality, I've always thought Khan as a noble primarch. Alpharius is more of a prideful and arrogant primarch who would more than likely use Khan and his legion while keeping many secrets from him. But I think Khan would go along to fulfill his purpose.

One of the pairs I really had to think about was Lion El' Johnson and Magnus. I thought that the Lion and Magnus had some good knowledge about the warp and knowledge in general. But these Primarchs are much more concerned about themselves than helping each other. I also thought that the Lion being a very paranoid primarch would be very untrustful of Magnus and his uncontrollable warp powers of himself and his legion. I think this would effect the Lion's stratedegy as he would be working his plans around Magnus. Magnus and his legions abilities would catch on this and then probably do the same. Basically screwing each other over.

Edit: Go Vulkan and Mortarion! Use your _meltarization_ skills to burn everyone to death.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I went for Angron and Sanguinius, purely for the shock factor that they would bring to any combat.
I do think that Sanguinius and Horus would have made a better paring, they would have kicked the Imperiums arse had they joined up for the Heresy.


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> I went for Angron and Sanguinius, purely for the shock factor that they would bring to any combat.
> I do think that Sanguinius and Horus would have made a better paring, they would have kicked the Imperiums arse had they joined up for the Heresy.


I feared that both legions would lose grasp and tear each other up. If they were my team that I was routing for, I'd be afraid that the blood angels succuumbed to their flaws and just killed everything alike, both friend and foe.


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Russ and Horus might do well, Russ is fairly loyal to his friends- just don’t fuck with him or he will go ape shit crazy.


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Russ and Horus might do well, Russ is fairly loyal to his friends- just don’t fuck with him or he will go ape shit crazy.


Yes, I agree. I knew that Russ and Horus would be a good pair. Until the heresy Horus would have probably been an honorable and noble primarch. The Wolves have always respected and honored those that fight and die with them. whether it was regular guard or eldar, they have shown this. The fierceness of these legions would be a force to be reckoned with.


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

True, I doubt even the iron warriors and imperial fists could hold them back.


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> True, I doubt even the iron warriors and imperial fists could hold them back.


I don't know to be honest. I regard the space wolves as probably one of the best "assault" like legions. The way they totally raped Prospero was beautiful indeed. And that was in the account of the Thousand Sons. Horus is also described as one of the best siege armies in _Horus Rising_. It was described somewhere in the lines that if both the Imperial Fists and the Luna Wolves had a battle it would last forever, because their skills could par one another. But thats just adding up to your point. :thank_you: The two best defenders compared to the best attackers is quite a scene.

I like what the Heretics have done with the voting so far. I was hoping a little more from the Salamanders and Death Guard. But I like to think of each bar as the amount of ground each legion is taking on this random planet they are dueling on.


----------



## BrainFreeze (Oct 9, 2008)

ckcrawford said:


> I feared that both legions would lose grasp and tear each other up. If they were my team that I was routing for, I'd be afraid that the blood angels succuumbed to their flaws and just killed everything alike, both friend and foe.


Yea, Kharn would charge into battle with The Sanguinor at his side and "accidently" cut those pretty wings off. From there the battle would de-evolve but Khorne will get his blood and skulls so it's all good.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

ckcrawford said:


> I feared that both legions would lose grasp and tear each other up. If they were my team that I was routing for, I'd be afraid that the blood angels succuumbed to their flaws and just killed everything alike, both friend and foe.


But the flaw didn't appear until after Sanguinius's death. 
And I think watching the World Eaters go at it would have been enough to keep the Blood Angels more on the straight and narrow.


----------



## The Boz (Aug 16, 2010)

Voted for option 1. Horus and Leman are so much front-loaded firepower, I just don't see special tactics working against it.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Even before the flaw though the Blood Angels were still seen as ferocious in combat, considered the best shock troopers along with the World Eaters, but just not quite so mindless or brutal as the World Eaters. But still one of the top close combat fighters.


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

They weren't anywhere near a brutal though. During the heresy, the two most brutal shock legions were probably the world eaters and the space wolves


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Only one person chose the frat boys logar and guilliman. I thought they would be up high in the polling.


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Because all the loyalists hate lorgar and all the heretics loathe guilliman


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I dunno, numerous times the pre-heresy Blood Angels and World Eater have been compared as fierce rivals in close quarters and both the top shock troopers. With only Sanguinus influence stopping the Blood Angels from becoming quite so brutal as the World Eaters. I would definetly put them on par with the Wolves. Certainly those 3 legions are the top shock troopers


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I vote for Team Magnus and Johnson. 

The DA are already a versatile and tactically flexible lot, so an alliance with uber psykers would pretty much clinch it imo.


----------



## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> I vote for Team Magnus and Johnson.
> 
> The DA are already a versatile and tactically flexible lot, so an alliance with uber psykers would pretty much clinch it imo.


Yup I'd second that. 

Although Corax and Kurze would be a frightening combo, you'd, literally in Corax's case, never see them coming.


----------



## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

If I comparred the Blood angels to the Wolves of Leman Russ, I would say that the one thing that bothers me is the fact that they look like they have limited options in terms of weapon. Most blood angels seem to only carry a bolter and wolves carry a crap load of everything, especially close combat weapons. So in that case I think the wolves are better as shock troops than Blood Angels.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

We havent seen nearly enough of the Blood Angels pre-heresy combat to know that though. The Fluff specifically states them to be pretty epic in close combat, look at them as a chapter, they favour close combat weapons and jump packs all the time, the only reason they dont field an entire company of assault marines all the time is they stick to the codex, in the Legion days they would have no such limitations. See what happens when the BA HH book comes out.

Back on topic, i agree the Lion and Magnus should also be quite a devastating combo if they could actually get along. I like the idea of Corax and Alpharius, that would be one hell of a combo.


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Damn Horus and Russ have risen in the polls. 

The one poll I'm surprised about is Konrad Curze and Corax. I felt Konrad Curze's tactics though highly effective, wouldn't work in this kind of warfare. There has been debate that Konrad Curze and his legion were more effective against more human enemies that knew fear a lot more than astartes. One of the arguments stems from whether Konrad Curze and his Night Lords were effective with fighting against the Lion. But either way they aren't doing bad in this battle.

I think though Magnus and the Lion an interesting combo, I couldn't see them getting along. The Lion is too paranoid to trust Magnus. And to be honest, I wouldn't trust Magnus too.

I could picture the Lion and Magnus.

Lion: Don't push the button
Magnus: why?
Lion: don't ask stupid questions! Just don't push the god damn button!
While they are battling the other legions hard, Magnus goes
Magnus:... uhhhh, well push... he needs my help
and blows up the Lion's whole side of the battlefield. 
Lion: Nice going Magnus, you ruined the fucking plan.
Plan- let enemy take Lion's side of the field 
Magnus: Well you didn't tell me. By the way were you going to tell my legion to get out of there in time?
Lion: Fuck Magnus I never tell anyone shit. Remember when I fucked over Russ?


----------



## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

ckcrawford said:


> Damn Horus and Russ have risen in the polls.
> 
> The one poll I'm surprised about is Konrad Curze and Corax. I felt Konrad Curze's tactics though highly effective, wouldn't work in this kind of warfare. There has been debate that Konrad Curze and his legion were more effective against more human enemies that knew fear a lot more than astartes. One of the arguments stems from whether Konrad Curze and his Night Lords were effective with fighting against the Lion. But either way they aren't doing bad in this battle.


Yeah that one takes me back.... My first Heresy Online "debate".


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Lion still powns his ass. Lol


----------



## G_Morgan (Mar 3, 2008)

The best partnership would be Magnus and Guilliman. Magnus could burn their enemies while Guilliman works out how to keep the economy running. This way when Magnus gets home from shattering his enemies souls he can afford nice things.


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

The Frat boys are no longer in last place! What do people think of the two fighting with one another? I feel as though Guilliman would be doing his job and Logar would constantly be charging into the fray and using his legion like bezerkers, insanely to get the objectives before Guilliman.


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

I know it's a boring choice, But frankly Horus and Leman Russ... :\

The most powerful Warmaster of Chaos ever, Could only be killed by the emperor using so much power, that he practically kills himself...
In terms of power, tactics ect, it has to be him, surely?

Leman russ would do nothing but Add to that aswell.. So yeah, I think in terms of most Powerful combo, it's them, But it's been interesting to read other theories..

I'd like to choose Angron because I'm a Khorne man, But I don't think they're as powerful as Horus _was_


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

He didn't just kill Horus, he erased him from existance. Also, the reason the emperor was so weak was that he allowed Horus to do a huge amount of damage before it downed on him that "Oh shit, this sob isn't going to turn back."


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

No, as far as i know, The emperor had to summon so much strength to kill him, that he effectively rolled a 1 for 'Gets Hot!', and He only has 1 Wound left? 

Is that not right?


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes and no. Yes, in that, he had to use a large amount of energy to obliterate Horus , but no, in that, the reason it took so much out of him was because he had refused to use all of his power against Horus because he hoped he would turn and he didn't want to kill him so he waisted a huge amount of energy fighting Horus and Horus did a huge amount of damage to him during the fight. He could have ended it in a few seconds if he would have done that at the begining. Anyway, this is pre heresy primarchs so this doesn't really matter.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I do seem to recall that being suggested by earlier fluff. Although it is also true that Horus did a massive amount of damage as well it was the final act of obliterating Horus that pretty much buggered the Emperor into the state he's in now.
I could be wrong but I definately remember that being the opinion way back when.


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Guilliman and Lorgar no question.

The 2 biggest Legions united? Hell, numbers alone they outnumber any 4 other Legions combined- the zealotry of Lorgar combined with the genius of Guilliman is just the icing on the cake because you'd be drowning in Astartes if you tried to take them on.


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Yes and no. Yes, in that, he had to use a large amount of energy to obliterate Horus , but no, in that, the reason it took so much out of him was because he had refused to use all of his power against Horus because he hoped he would turn and he didn't want to kill him so he waisted a huge amount of energy fighting Horus and Horus did a huge amount of damage to him during the fight. He could have ended it in a few seconds if he would have done that at the begining. Anyway, this is pre heresy primarchs so this doesn't really matter.


 I didn't realise this was pre-heresy, as in the OP, he says 'I deliberately put one Chaos with one Loyalist' or similar.


On 2nd thoughts about it, i'd proberbly vote Angron, if i hadn't already voted. When i posted before i assume Angron and his World-eaters where broken up into little Warbands, and Angron was sat in His own little Realm playing with himself.

Considering they'd have the entirety of the World eaters (which imo is the best legion [although not a legion anymore] :biggrin And the sanguinary guard... Not alot could stand up to that... Unless its like.. the equivalent of the entirety of the Black legion, or something.

(Not meaning to say the Black legion is the best legion, i'm not starting that discussion here X) )


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well if it was loyalist with chaos it would mean no force would be able to function since all would be in a state of civil war. I believe he meant that he would put one legion that had gone to chaos with a legion that sided with the emperor buy both would be pre-heresy era.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Also, the reason the emperor was so weak was that he allowed Horus to do a huge amount of damage before it downed on him that "Oh shit, this sob isn't going to turn back."


I don't view it as being that simple. The _Collected Visions_ account of their final duel doesn't describe the Emperor as initially holding back or hesitating at all. He unleashes his psychic might but Horus not only matches it, but exceeds it in the sense that his own psychic might picks apart and greatly wounds the Emperor. If anything, during the opening stages of their duel Horus is the one holding back, relishing the fight - If he wished it, Horus could have destroyed the Emperor before the Custodes entered the bridge.

Only when the Emperor earns respite (when the lone Custodes enters the bridge) and musters his _full_ psychic might (resulting in his own death), and due to Horus being momentarily distracted is Horus utterly obliterated. Its not like the Emperor could have simply done this from the beginning if he wished it. At leasts thats how I see it.


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I tend to view it more like the Emperor was trying to turn his favored son in order to redeem is own failure. We already know that he would be willing to sacrifice his primarchs if it would serve to further his goal, the Emperor is nothing if not a narcissist, so the whole "he loved Horus to much to simply destroy him" is probably a load of crap. I believe he saw his own redemption, and the salvation of his dream, in the redemption of Horus. When he finally realized he couldn't turn him he used everything he had left and obliterated Horus.


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I don't view it as being that simple. The _Collected Visions_ account of their final duel doesn't describe the Emperor as initially holding back or hesitating at all. He unleashes his psychic might but Horus not only matches it, but exceeds it in the sense that his own psychic might picks apart and greatly wounds the Emperor. If anything, during the opening stages of their duel Horus is the one holding back, relishing the fight - If he wished it, Horus could have destroyed the Emperor before the Custodes entered the bridge.
> 
> Only when the Emperor earns respite (when the lone Custodes enters the bridge) and musters his _full_ psychic might (resulting in his own near-death), and due to Horus being momentarily distracted is Horus utterly obliterated. Its not like the Emperor could have simply done this from the beginning if he wished it. At leasts thats how I see it.


Not agreeing with this, unfortunately. Granted I don`t really like the Emperor and I`m not a big fan of Horus, but I do believe that the Emperor could have ended the fight far sooner than he did.

As the general said, I think the Emperor was at least entertaining the idea of trying to redeem Horus. He may have been caught off guard by Horus` initial strength, but in terms of raw power, Empy wins and still has enough energy to fuel the throne for 10k years. 

Just my interpretation, but I think The Emperor was always gonna come out on top, even if it did cost him dearly. :so_happy:


----------



## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

See the problem is, the final Battle is so ambiguous, that it drives everyone insane...

Alot of people see it as the Emperor not wanting to kill his own son, then realising he's a monster when he slaughters those Custodes...

But equally, alot of people see it as Horus toying with his old man as if to say 'Forget it old man, you are weak, i am the future' Or whatever, then as an act of his power he tore custodes apart in a second.

I'm biased towards the latter, because i hate loyalists. but that's all it really comes down to. Whether you like Chaos or Loyalists more.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

From previous fluff descriptions of the battle i thought it was practicaly stated that the Emperor was holding back massively like has been said holding back convinced Horus could turn back and in the process getting the living hell beaten out of him, only when he destroyed the lone Imperial Fist/Custode/Which ever unlucky soldier in that editions story ran in and got vaporised by Horus that he realised. Horus even sensed and truely feared the Emperor as he realised what he was about to do.

I still firmly believe Horus was no match for the Emperor, even with the Chaos gods pouring all their power into him, the Emperor was still the most powerful individual ever, i still think if he was convinced from the start that Horus was not coming back he could have walked onto the bridge and obliterated him virtualy there and then.


----------

