# Whirlwind or Vindicator??????



## rcm2216 (Feb 22, 2008)

Given today's power builds are Horde and Elite based which following Space Marine Heavy support would be better in a tournament setting within an all comer's Marine list as a heavy support option:

The Vindicator or Whirlwind


Which is more viable?

Which would cause the most distraction?


----------



## Rahmiel (Jan 3, 2009)

I would say a whirlwind, even though it doesn't have as high a strength, it has range over a whirlwind. Everybody is scared of range, opponents have more time to shoot at something with a smaller range before you can return fire with it. But the choice really comes down to you army's style of play. If you wanted to sit back and shoot em up take a whirlwind. If you are storming them in cc then take a vindicator.


----------



## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

Whirlwind. Ignoring cover and huge range is too good to pass up for short range and no ignoring cover, if you're looking to take on hordes. Even against marines, the whirlwind will not be a slouch at making them roll saves.

Say you hit 9 orks with a whirlwind using a S5 AP4 barrage over intervening cover, you'll wound 6 of them on average and so 6 will die. If they're below 12 models, they will have to take a pinning test on -1.

Say you hit 9 orks with a vindicator, you'll wound 7 or 8 and of that 7 or 8, half will pass cover saves and so you'll only kill 4 on average.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Vndicator. It's Multi-Role, and very good to reasonable at all of them. (Anti Horde, Anti Armour, Anti-Tank). The Whirlwind is a 1 trick pony, and just doesn't have the ability to keep up with the Marines in anything but a support role.

Then again, I play 3 Vindicators, and use that with a Razorback transported Assault under the covering fire of Tactical Squads. So I might be biased.

The Ability to just wipe straight through those squads near to you , creating a channel through which you can put in some Marines, hold the Objectives.

No amount of Orks will be able to whether 3 Str 10 AP2 Templates each turn, followed by 4 Plasma Cannons, and 4 Heavy Bolter Shots.


----------



## MasterKnives (Jan 21, 2009)

I side with the vindicator

It is highly versatile, the ordinance blast is good against hordes and elite units alike, it can kill the same number of orks as a whirlwind, and will kill even more terminators or tanks than the whirlwind can ever hope to deal with.

The big difference is cover saves, and while the whirlwind will almost never allow cover saves (or never if incendiary), it is quite simply not good at dealing with elite threats, or any type of armor. It is a trade off, and for the way I run my army I need to versatility more than I need the removal of cover saves.


----------



## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

As with most units, it depends on your army. There are more considerations than just whether you need the anti-heavy from the vindicator or the anti-horde from a whirlwind.

The whirlwind's reach is more valuable to you if you have a fairly static force. If you are running an aggressive, assaulting army, then you can often just have somebody walk up to stuff and deal with it at close range. A static shooting army can struggle to deal with stuff like enemy squads holding objectives from hidden positions, which happens quite a lot in capture and control. People will put their objective behind a hill or building, then leave a cheap unit out of sight to hold it. A whirlwind solves that issue.

The vindicator is far more direct. If you have a list with a bunch of tanks in then a vindicator presents them with a big problem. They need to kill the vindy, but they are also unhappy about the various land raiders, rhinos and dreadnoughts that you have. They don't have enough AT to get rid of all of them and they are going to take damage.

I tend to think that the vindicator solves more problems than the whirlwind. If you find yourself with a problem like a monolith, a battlewagon full of nobz or an enemy terminator squad, a vindicator is a whole hell of a lot better than a whirlwind. It isn't as good at killing ork boyz, but it's still going to be ok.

I think they are both priced about right, and that's obviously a consideration. If you take the whirwind you have 30 points more to spend on other toys.

In the end they are both reasonable choices and there's no right or wrong answer. There are some good points made in the posts preceeding mine, so hopefully we will have helped.


----------



## TBCX6628 (Apr 29, 2008)

Just played a 2V2 Orks and Marines(me) vs Chaos Space marine 2X lash and necrons, Vindicators where my all stars. My heavy was 2 Vindicators and 4 Plasma Cannon Dev squad, I killed with my vindicators roughly 10 plague marines 3 obliterators 20ish necron warriors, and 5 khorne beserkers my plasma cannons wiped out roughly 5 plague marines a daemon prince, a sorcerer, 10 necron warriors and a few khorne beserkers and 2 obliterators, 

But to get to the point I think vindicators are a great choice especially with siege shields. They are in my opion typically the answer to most problems with units in a game most people dont like strength ten ap 2 large Blasts.


----------



## warmster4 (Mar 9, 2008)

WHIRLWIND x 100000000000000 all the way they blast out chuncks of scum in a turn with their castellan missiles. but vindicators are preety good.:biggrin:


----------



## tony161 (Jan 27, 2009)

rcm2216, it depends on what u got in your list so far, so post your list, or your end up with people telling you how the 2 work in their list, and that won't help you much.

Anyway, when fighting orcs and nids, whirl wind (blond angles with incendaries work well), or lay mines infront of units to hopfuly channel thre hord into a kill zone, or redirect them away from objectives. However saying that templars will run at an enemy that shoots at them, so forcing them to cross mines is a good idea.

If your anrmy lacks alot anti-tank weapons, then use a vindicator, and it's good for shooty armys for keeping assult troops off your lines, or for clearing enemy units in one shot. Also if u haven't got terminators, vindicators are great for repelling them when they deep strike into or near your lines.

However against guard armies, the vindicator or whirlwind are useful, so long as the vindicaor has monted support. 

So either way their both there to make up for weeknesses in your list already.


----------

