# Necrons vs Terminators; aka the Necron close combat megathread



## Cindare (Jun 15, 2008)

This is more of a question and discussion thread more than a how-to, simply because I don't think I have the answer yet. Input is much appreciated.

Folks in the Necron community know quite well that we have big issues these days, especially in dealing with assault units. Necron posters here on Heresy Online have come up interesting ways to deal with it. Monolith tricks, assault shock troops (Flayed Ones, Wraiths), and Scarab Swarm zerg rushes are all good for intercepting close combat units moving from the other side of the field.

But are they good at dealing with the devastating deep strike menace that is the Terminator squad? How about those Eldar guys (whatever the hell they're called)? :no:

Let's face it: Warriors aren't very good in close combat against those units designed to prevail under those circumstances. WBB will only do so much, and as always we run the risk of an unlucky string of repair rolls. Once they're on the field, there's not a whole lot that can be done against them. I run a Scarab Lord list (see the Tactica: Necrons thread) and my options are as follows:

-Attempt to fight them off with Destroyers (if they're still alive) and/or Warriors. This has not worked out for me at all thus far.
-Shift the Warriors away with Monolith portals and VoD. While this gives me time to plink off the Terminators, it generally shifts my Warriors closer to the focus of battle. The clock is ticking at this point; I call this the "victory or death" scenario.
-Attempt to bee-line my Scarab Swarms across the board to intercept the Terminators. Thus far, my Scarabs have been too deep in enemy lines to make this feasible.

Option 2 seems the best, but it's complicated by the simple fact that I don't have 2 monoliths, which would make it work reasonably well. If I have 3 squads, I can move 2 away with portals, and another with VoD. If I only have one monolith, then I write off one warrior squad immediately, which is definitely not a desirable outcome.

What's left, then? Aside from chafing at the simple fact that my list designed to foil assault units is itself foiled by an assault unit that happens to deep strike, it seems that a tactical solution is inadequate unless I get my paws on another Monolith. What's left is a strategic solution; that is to say that I need to retool my list.

Blackguard units, aside from Immortals, have never been particularly, well... worthwhile in a Necron army. Even then, Immortals are not exactly an ideal close combat solution. Let's explore other options.

*More Warriors* - Can a Terminator squad be overwhelmed with lots and lots of shooty and/or close combat damage? Absolutely. But I'm sure your opponent will be laughing at the carnage as you commit their souls to the Emperor. I suggest having a Tomb Spyder hanging around in order to facilitate WBB rolls in the event that a Resurrection Orb encounters range issues. Which brings us to the next option...

*Tomb Spyders* - 3 attacks, 2 wounds, S/T 6. It looks good on paper, right? It won't get gibbed by a power fist and it's likely to hang out in the backfield anyway. It's especially good if you're fielding Destroyers due to the forementioned WBB enhancement. Its status as a Monstrous Creature may or may not give it a shortened life span, however. It has a good point-to-wound ratio (cheaper than Immortals), and a point-to-attack ratio similar to a Warrior (18.33). You can even opt for a power weapon by reducing its attacks by one. I'll be honest though, I've never played with Tomb Spyders before. If someone could post their experiences playing Tomb Spyders as a backfield safety unit would, I'd appreciate it.

*Wraths* - While expensive per model, it has a point-to-attack ratio similar to Scarab Swarms. Given comparable mobility and S6, perhaps this is a worthwhile countermeasure. Necron posters have mentioned Wraith Lord lists, having them run with Destroyer Lords kitted for close combat. The problem in this instance is having one of their best features, a 3+ invulnerable save, negated by a Terminator squad's arsenal. Is this a problem, or are the points justified for a glass cannon?

*Flayed Ones* - They're as cheap as Warriors and they get the super spiffy Terrifying Visage ability. There's potential synergy with Gaze of Flame and (gasp) Pariahs which could turn a Terminator squad into a pile of meat. Of course, Gaze of Flame implies being in coherence with a CC kitted Lord, which is an additional option. Doing some quick probabilities, however, it seems like a confrontation is a teeter-totter: that is, the conflict will likely be short and one-sided, one way or the other. It's a coin toss, in a sense. Probabilities are likely to change with Leadership modifiers, so having a handful of Pariahs or a CC Lord will swing the pendulum in favor of the Flayed Ones. What's best is that the Flayed Ones can deep strike themselves if Terminators aren't going to be an issue. I intend to test these guys as soon as I get more of them.

*Pariahs* - Yeah, I went there. They're expensive, they don't get WBB, they have mediocre initiative, and they're generally terrible for anything other than killing psykers. However, I'm intrigued by built in Warscythes and the Soulless ability. The latter seems to have potential synergy with CC Lords, Flayed Ones, and the Deceiver. Are they worth the points? Probably not. It depends on how badly you want Warscythes and an edge on Leadership challenges, I suppose.

*C'tan* - The only thing better than something that can decisively deal with Terminators is something that can lure Terminators to deep strike in its vicinity. Unless I'm looking at this wrong, it seems like the Nightbringer has a pretty good chance at putting a huge hurt on Terminators, if not able to solo a squad. At worst, it can lure them in range of a hail of Warrior fire and take out one of the biggest threats the Necrons are likely to face. The Deciever can make anything that wanders near your Warriors sorry that it did. Decieve and Dread can neutralize units long enough to get shot up by Warriors. Are they worth the point expenditure though? I suppose it would be if I'm that concerned with countering close combat (I am). Opinions on how to incorporate C'tan are appreciated.

*Monolith* - This is a simple question: is the Particle Whip any damn good against Terminators and the like? I often find using Portal more pressing anyway, and if I'm using its shooty stuff, then I'm probably winning anyhow. This renders a handful of Terminators in the backfield somewhat moot.

Thoughts, questions and opinions are welcome, but answers even more so. Thanks for reading.


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Yes, an interesting scenario this is. Consider the following options based upon a fight fire with fire cc only aspect.

*Pariahs*
At first this may appear to be the solution to the problem. With warscythe and assault gauss weapons s5 t5 you would expect them to carve up the terminators with out to much trouble even with low iniative as most basic terminators will have power fists with some opting for other options. Problem being that they may not be within 12" range of the deep striked squad. They cannot teleport through the monolith and veil strike, even if they could, will leave them flat for a turn more then likely coming under the terminators fire and without wbb rolls would not last long. If they were wbb type units then lith port yeah here we come. Even the most dumbest space marine player would not deep strike them within assault range of your pariah squad.

*Wraiths*
These guys have the inv save and the mobility to get there, fast. Effective range is, with lith port, 36". Three attacks and high initiative, decent strength. Only problem is the size of the squad. If you could field 5 of them in one squad well...

*Scarabs*
These little power houses may have a chance... to hold them up for a turn or 2 at the most. Effective range is 18" and a full squad of 10 with 40 attacks on the charge will hit on average with 20 attacks. Requiring 5+ to wound would give 6 wounds on average and leaving you with 1 failed armour save/kill on average, not good odds considering.

*Necron Lord*
The Lord probably has the best chance to survive and do some damage. With a warscythe to ensure all wounds are just that, he will hit with 2 attacks on average and wound closer to 2 times on average. He will need a lith to teleport him as close to the terminators as possible, or at least within 12" so his effective range is 30", providing he is within 18" of the lith prior to him moving. Phase shifter is a must have to be able to try and shrug off the power weapon attacks. Res orb, standard wargear for him anyway. Destroyer body really only good for extra 6" range as he is already t5 and marines are s4, s8 for power fists and t6 is still a 2+ to wound anyway. 

Anyway, some food for thought.

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## Untitled401 (May 12, 2008)

One thing you have to be thankful for is that assult units cant consolidate into another unit anymore.

Why bother with all the expensive units and tricky tactics? For 2000pts i'd get 2 lords with res orbs, 18-20 scarabs, 4-6 heavy destroyers and all the warriors i can fit. If tanks didnt have long ranged weapons i wouldnt take destroyers at all and just field warriors, scarabs and the 2 lords.

If you have 60 Warriors (3 squads of 20 for example sake) and your enemy deep-strikes his termi's. He has to stand there for 1 whole turn while you rapid fire him in the face. Even if he attacks one squad and kills it, you still have 40 warriors there to rapid fire 80 shots. If you're going against horde then same scenario.

Come to think of it, why not just have an army of warriors, 2 lords and some heavy destroyers? Might look boring but it can take down cc armies easier than armies with monoliths and/C'tan.


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## Trignama (Jun 29, 2008)

ok well as i cant offer you advice as to what to take in a necron list specifically to beat cc armies, what i can do is tell you how and why i play my Templar list against the xenos and maybe you can come up with some type of solutions off of that..

my brother plays crons so i have quite a bit of experience when fighting a list of this nature so what i have learned to do is the following:

i usually use a LRC with an 8 man assault termie squad in it (5 claws 3 hammers) and behind it but off to the side i have my vindicator

to the left or right flank i have a predator (trilas) and a razorback (lascannon) with a 6 man las plas squad outside of it. almost on top of both of those i have rhinos 1 filled with assault marines and a champion and the other with my sword brethren and commander.

So normally what necron players is do is either try to rush scarabs or wraiths at me to harass either my shooty squad or fire support tanks, this is obviously countered with the assault squads in the rhinos or LRC because they can move fast... but they cant assault. I use this oppurtunity to stay put and shoot the monolith down b4 i even inch towards the crons with my assault squads. once its gone, the assault squads go in and mop up warriors till phase out. really its very simple and crons fall for it every time.

so what my bro learned to do is stick a nightbringer in his army, now he alone can waste the terminators no problem, and it forces me to split my shooting either not being able to drop the monolith in time to assault the warriors for phase out, or letting the nightbringer get to close (especially with run now) and start eating everything i have alive... so really fielding both against assault armies really forces them to decide to take down one or the other, which will take up most of their concentrated fire, and let you down them with the other.... i dunno if that really helps, but thats what i can offer from a assault army oriented view, if you need more specifics i'll happily oblige, just write


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## Alaric (Jun 10, 2008)

as a fellow necron player i use pariahs to deal with terminators. while pariahs are initiative 4 so are terminators if you die they die. and you have higher toughness and str so they need 5s to wound you while you need 3s to wound them. or just use destroyers and shoot them. heavy or regular put enough shots out there gonna roll some 1s.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Alaric said:


> as a fellow necron player i use pariahs to deal with terminators. while pariahs are initiative 4 so are terminators if you die they die. and you have higher toughness and str so they need 5s to wound you while you need 3s to wound them. or just use destroyers and shoot them. heavy or regular put enough shots out there gonna roll some 1s.


Pariahs are are I3 - Lords are I4. Pariahs, in almost all situations, will get killed before you can do anything with them.

On paper it looks like Pariahs are the answer to a lot of Necron problems. The problem is that they are lacking in so many ways.

High point cost
Low I score
Low number of attacks
Not Necron, so no WBB, no portal use and no VoD.


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## Trignama (Jun 29, 2008)

Alaric said:


> as a fellow necron player i use pariahs to deal with terminators. while pariahs are initiative 4 so are terminators if you die they die. and you have higher toughness and str so they need 5s to wound you while you need 3s to wound them. or just use destroyers and shoot them. heavy or regular put enough shots out there gonna roll some 1s.



Have to disagree here, their I is wors than 4, and Termies w/lightning claws (which i often field) will tear through this unit before they have a chance to swing those scythes. The new preffered enemy rules really make this even more potent since i will be re-rolling all missed to hit AND wounds. So pariahs aint helping ya ha ha


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## Saint7515 (Apr 30, 2008)

Preferred enemy/ Lightning Claws is kinda templar specific; They eat anything. The original question reverts to "how to handle the deep-striking Terminator squad."

If they are Assaulters, then shoot. Deepstriking with assaulters is simply a bad plan; odds are they will be in a LRC or LR (if they need the fire-power) and then its a battle with the guass weapons that have caused me one-too-many imobilized hits...

If they are regular Termies [the real question], then the Nightbringer seems best, though he will probably be in front of your whole force when the pair of assault cannons and 3 to 8 Assault 2 bolters (all backed by powerfists) come down BEHIND your warriors, out of the effective range of (Nightbringer, scarabs, wraiths, all of which are out in front). If you try to run him back, then that is one less item the main force has to handle, and if you KEEP him behind your lines? That is just extra turns of shooting while I deepstrike my termies elsewhere. You're not advancing? you're not killing my termies? no objectives/victory points for you!

If you could get Pariahs into CC then they are the answer against all but those termie marines that are fearless all the time :cough: Templars :cough: since power-fists will be hitting last and you will take less wounds if you are on the charge.

Swarm of warriors could work, but then your commiting toooo many rescourses to *maybe* lose less pts then they will kill. And then it means leaving your newly dead swarms and a nightbringer against 65% + of the marines that are left on the field. Hes good, but he will go down while your troops are left in the back.

Clearly Scarabs are the answer.


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## The Hunter (Apr 4, 2008)

i have tried alot of things versus deathwing termies. i did three battles in a rowe with a darkangels player once and basically i can't do anything. 

First game: i charge him with scarabs... scarabs die though they did take 2 termies with them

Second game: i try shooting but generly ignoring them... they some how managing to get into combat and i phase out. 

Third game: i try sacrificing a unit of ten warriors by spliting my forces so that he would have to tuse one... he chose the unit with the lord in it... that one dies... belial (i think) splits off and helps his bikers kill another while still holding the objective with his main unit i phase out.

Just to see what happens i test wraiths aganst his unit ... i die.

seems the best thing to do is use scarbs but i am going to try the deciver next ... when i get him that is


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Ah, terminators . . . .The bane of Necron's everywhere.:scare: 

You really only have a couple answers, and none of them are good. You can field a Destroyer Lord w/ warscythe and let him clean them up. You can field a C'Tan with the same results. You can use the Particle Whip from the Monolith or you can use Heavy Destroyers.

The problem with the D.Lord is the warscythe (which everyone here seems to love btw) is really a niche choice usable only when there are a lot of CC heavy invulnerable saves out there to deal with. I like the D.Lord but rarely give him the scythe since I like the shooting from the Staff better, and don't usually have 10 points to spare. When you hit termies with the guy, he will generally take out 2 or 3 before he is killed and then you have to depend on WBB in order to recover (a 50/50 proposition). He can do it for a while, but really not your best choice.

The C'Tan again can do the job (better than the D.Lord) but they are slow, a fire priority and usually out of position to get the job done. They are also expensive so in games under 3000 you really sacrifice units to get one at all.

The Monolith almost always has better things to do that use the particle whip, but if you have no other choice, use it. If the choice is between getting warriors out of close combat or hitting terminators, it's a tough call mostly dependent on what they are in CC with, but if it is just a matter of redoing WBB or hitting termies, hit the termies !

Finally the Heavy Destroyer. This is my prefered tactic since they are highly mobile, count as necrons and can destroy termies and tanks pretty well. But there are too few of them in a squad, and they have no ablative wounds. Finally things that kill them tend to kill them all, so if you take them you generally have to take 2 squads. At 195 per squad that can add up fast.

Just my 2 cents :angel:


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## The Hunter (Apr 4, 2008)

i tried a unit of around 10 paraiahs on a unit of 5 deathwing and Belieal ( i think) and they smushed them... well i was reduced down to 4 but hey. the thing is i most of them were either striking last or not rolling enough 5's to wound. paraihs could be the answer. though i did in a different game place the deciever aganst a different deathwing unit which ad only one power fist ... and he did smush them!


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

i would suggest just sticking with pulling the unit the termies tie up with out and through the portal. Then just pump them full of gauss. Auto-wounds on 6's which forces a 5+ invulnerable save so your chances are better at felling a few. Only problem with this tactic though is that as was stated, most termie units have at least one power first in their unit and they are rather close to the monolith....I know chances are slim of them taking it out, but a unit of 5 termies with 5 powerfists has a good chance of getting at least one 6. This tactic worked well against genestealers and although they're not the same as termies, they're one of the best CC units the nids have.


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## hurt-wm (Jun 8, 2008)

People are forgetting that usually terminators will strike last with their fists. Rarely do people field pure assault termies, and those are usually mounted in an LR, but that is beside the point. DS'ing termies are very vulnerable on the turn they DS, and they're going to be vulnerable anyway because they are isolated. Now, if the SM player manages to strike 2 squads of terminators at a time... Yeesh.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

hurt-wm said:


> People are forgetting that usually terminators will strike last with their fists. Rarely do people field pure assault termies, and those are usually mounted in an LR, but that is beside the point. DS'ing termies are very vulnerable on the turn they DS, and they're going to be vulnerable anyway because they are isolated. Now, if the SM player manages to strike 2 squads of terminators at a time... Yeesh.


Yes, but terminators are resilient enough that they're liable to survive a round of shooting without taking but 1 or 2 casualties and a necron player wouldn't (or at least in my mind I wouldn't) assault them with anything but wraiths.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

BloodAngelZeros said:


> i would suggest just sticking with pulling the unit the termies tie up with out and through the portal. Then just pump them full of gauss. Auto-wounds on 6's which forces a 5+ invulnerable save so your chances are better at felling a few.


I think you misread the Gauss rule. Termies still get their 2+ save vs Gauss shots because they are not rending or AP2. The Gauss effect only applies to wounding things that are usually too tough or have special rules that say they can not be wounded by weapons below a certain strength.

Enough hits will kill Termies, so that is all you can do really.


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## BloodAngelZeros (Jul 1, 2008)

darklove said:


> I think you misread the Gauss rule. Termies still get their 2+ save vs Gauss shots because they are not rending or AP2. The Gauss effect only applies to wounding things that are usually too tough or have special rules that say they can not be wounded by weapons below a certain strength.
> 
> Enough hits will kill Termies, so that is all you can do really.


 I read it correctly. it says that 6's cause an automatic wound, even against units that the weapon could not normally hurt because of toughness. They still get their saving throws but as far as an instant-kill, i know they can't do that.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

BloodAngelZeros said:


> I read it correctly. it says that 6's cause an automatic wound, even against units that the weapon could not normally hurt because of toughness. They still get their saving throws but as far as an instant-kill, i know they can't do that.


If you read it right before then how would they force a 5+ save by rolling 6s?


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## Pirate Metal Troy (Jun 2, 2008)

Being mainly a necron player, I haven't had to look this form of death in the eye just yet. But from the sounds of it, DS termies have to land. 60 warriors cover a LOT of table. he has to choose to keep em in reserves at the beginning of the game. Use that 2" coherency. just fan out your units with the monolith right in the middle. that way he's either got to run em, or risk the DS scattering off the table. 

Or, which i think is hilarious despite the fact it usually accounts for nothing. Lightning field with scarabs. <ahem> 40 attacks on the charge, plus subsequent round of combat. THEN another 30 wounds worth of strength 3 hits.

damn...this really makes me want termies for my Tsons. <checks out prices>


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

A few points. First Gauss allows a armor save as normal (meaning termies get their 2+). The math for taking out terminators with warriors is pretty slued in the direction of the terminators. Lets assume the best possible situation for Necrons, 9 deepstriking terminators (equal points) that land 24" from a warrior unit of 20. First turn the necron player causes 1.111 casualties (20 shots, 2/3 hit, 1/2 wound, 1/6 fail save). Since our opponent created a squad with no ranged weapons (only lightning claws) we're good for a second round of 1.1 unsaved wounds. The third turn sees them assault into the necron warriors with 7 terminators who cause 7.875 casualties (1/2 hit, 3/4 wound, no saves, no WBB). The return hit, assuming 7 deaths, causes 0.583 wounds (1/2 hit, 1/2 wound, 1/6 fail saves). So no wounds (0.583+0.1+0.1 = 0.783). Difference is 7 wounds so leadership vs 3. There is 2% chance of making this test - Necrons run. Now it's d6+2 vs d6+4 which means there is a 25/75 chance of getting away. Please note that I deliberately ignored the run movement which could potentially see the terminators in CC by turn 2 instead of 3 (decreases terminator casualties to 1 and increases necron casualties to 9)

To The Hunter:
Pariah can do it, but you have to get lucky somewhere or your opponent has to get unlucky somewhere. The example of 10 pariah to 5 terminators is a little misleading since you are fighting a unit about 1/2 your points (o.k. so 40 points away from 1/2, but still :grin. A more realistic example is 10 pariah vs. 9 terminators. And if you had 6 casualties taken from 5 terminators, then the other 4 would probably have died had their been 4 additional terminators. And since you strike last (except vs. power fists) . . . .

The right answer is, as I mentioned previously, Heavy Destroyers (1st), Monolith particle whip (2nd) and C'tan (3rd).

To Pirate Metal Troy:
This is generally the tactic that I employ myself (spreading out to disrupt Deepstrike), so I'm loathe to criticize it :laugh:. There is one thing that I would mention as something to watch out for however. If your opponent is playing a general Dark Angel army or a Dual Wing army watch out for bikes with teleport homers. The bikes will move as fast a possible towards your line and then the terminators will drop on turn 1 w/in 6" of the bikes * without scatter ! * Spreading out with bikes on the table just dilutes your ability to concentrate fire.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Monolith P-Whip does nothing to Terminators because they still get their 2+ save (AP3 for the Whip). It is a waste of the Monolith to shoot at Terminators unless you are using the Flux Arc at many units.


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## Deceiver (Sep 19, 2007)

monoliths and VoD are so vital. must have a way to pull your "necrons" out of cc.
Very hard to avoid not getting into hth nowadays.
All you can do is just lay down alot of shots on the terminators. Then charge in with a C'Tan. then again,the terminator unit needs to be 5 or less after your shooting round. Too many power fist attacks back will do in a C'Tan.


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

darklove said:


> Monolith P-Whip does nothing to Terminators because they still get their 2+ save (AP3 for the Whip). It is a waste of the Monolith to shoot at Terminators unless you are using the Flux Arc at many units.


Right, that's why it isn't he 1st choice. It is worth mentioning that at least 1 model may have to take their 5+ (AP 1 under the center). Finally, it is Str 9 fire, which is never bad.

As far as the flux arc goes, you get an average of 3 shots, 2 hits and 1 wound against Terminators. That's pretty awful compared to 5+ Str 9 wounds.


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## Cindare (Jun 15, 2008)

I got my grubby mitts on a trio of Heavy Destroyers and intend to deploy them alongside Tomb Spiders. The spiders were originally included to give wipe prevention to my Warriors in case Something Bad happens (CC definitely seems to qualify these days). The way I figure, Heavy Destroyers will share the same wipe prevention and will give opponents just that many more high-quality targets to choose from. If they wipe the Destros, then they'll get WBB rolls regardless. If they shoot at the Spiders first, then the Destros will continue to be shooty. If they try to split their fire, then my Warriors will likely go unmitigated.

I like the idea of Heavy Destroyers suppressing APCs and Deep Striking CC bad guys, so I'll give that a run. I posted a list in the Necron Lists subforum.

Thanks folks!


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## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

Cindare said:


> *Tomb Spyders* ... You can even opt for a power weapon by reducing its attacks by one ...


Never seen anybody use the tomb spider this way. Most readings of the rule I've seen is that the tomb spyder only gains the range profile from the staff of light, the attacks are not considered as using a power weapon.


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

It doesn't need the effect of the staff, as a monstrous creature its attacks ignore armour saves anyway of the non inv sort and type. The only advantage is to give some ranged shooting attacks of which its BS is just that, BS... :biggrin:

And it loses an attack for the privilege as well...

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Sure, it loses 1 attack during close combat, but for that loss it gains 3 marine killing shots at the same skill as the melee attacks.

I've personally never had a spyder make more than 3 rounds of combat in any game where I've played them. For me it's a no brainer to trade in the extra 1 CC attack for the 3 ranged attacks.


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## Cindare (Jun 15, 2008)

So yeah, I've had it pointed out to me that Tomb Spiders don't help me much as far as providing a single unit of Heavy Destroyers with wipe prevention goes. Back to the drawing board...

And yeah, I think I meant to type 'ranged weapon' instead of 'power weapon'. Dizzy is right; claws on a monstrous creature are nasty enough in CC. They do have big freakin' bullseyes on them though, which may or may not be good. I'd have to test them a bit more to find out for myself. To be honest though, having 3 extra Warriors (or Flayed Ones or Scarab Swarms or whatever) is beginning to look more attractive all the time.


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Yeah, last night I had my first 5th ed game a 1k match, I've been a bit slack since the release and to think I attended the pre release night as well :biggrin: , and the guy I played had a termie squad led by a chappy in termie armour. His termies had assault cannon, cyclone launcher and 3 dudes with storm bolters and the standard power fists. I had manuevered my forces to use the refused flank set up and, leaving a 3 man destroyer unit and the scarab squad as bait, left me to control the other flank with 2 x10 warrior squads and 1 x3 man destroyer squad. 

Lord Pestilence was attached to one of the warrior squads with res orb, phase shifter and staff of light. Once I had dealt with the tac squads on that flank I then focused the lord warrior unit on to the termies, I know warriors are crap against these guys but they absorb wounds away from the lord and wbb is a valuble asset.

So Lord Pestilence charges into cc with the warriors against the termies and my first mistake was to charge the chappy with him. These 2 power houses duked it out for 3 rounds with only being wounded once each. What I should have done was gone his termies with the lord. A 5+ inv is preferable to the chappy's rosarius save. If I had done this it may have enabled the warriors and lord as a whole to be more efficient against the chappy.

Also made the error of shooting destroyers at the termie squad and should have chosen a softer target, like the 3 men left of his tac squad that my warriors had nailed previously. For a moment I got all romantic about the destroyers lighting up his termies with s6 gauss and watching them writhe all over the ground as the gauss turned them into puffs of logic. 

Tactical dreadnought armour is heavy duty and soak up lots of fire power. Too suggest a barrage of shots as the medium to kill them is not an efficient strategy against these guys. Power weapons are the way, or at least one way. A basic termie will still usually have a power fist and you will take wounds form these that will not allow wbb unless a res orb is nearby. Pariahs may be an option as they will attack before the power fist termies but if they are lead by an IC then there may not be many left after his I5 and 4-5 attacks.

I should mention that my scarabs got a first turn assault on his vindicator and only managed to stun it that it could not move. This was followed up by a turn 2 scarab assault that stripped all its weapons and immbolised so that the tank was cactus. They then proceeded to tie up a tac squad foro the rest of the game and held their own against them. Disruptor fields/gauss against armour are still ok in 5th ed.

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Sigh. Terminators. By math it takes 120 gauss flayer shots to take down a squad 5 in a single round [ 5(6/1)(2/1)(2/1) = 120] Heavy destroyers are really the only halfway decent answer we have short of C'tan (who are so expensive and slow that you can't get them there 1/2 the time, and can't afford them the other 1/2)

Good job on the win though.


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