# CSM: Zerks vs Khorne marked CSMs



## Sandbar (Feb 5, 2010)

The point of this thread is to explore the differences in effectiveness between a squad of khorne berzerkers and a squad of chaos space marines with icon of khorne. More specifically this is to look at how these squads would preform in a 1500 - 2000 pt lash / oblit list.

zerks are good for high volume of powerful attacks, but cannot carry special weapons. In this point range chaos needs a hard hitting cc unit and zerks work very well in that role.

MoK csm squads(10) will normally have 2 more bodies than the zerk squads(8). Bar weapon skill, a normal csm is just as tough to kill as a zerk so it is something to think about for objective holding. Each model has 3 base attacks, just like the zerks. The downside to these squads is that you lose the valuable ws 5 and furious charge. In exchange for that you get fun weapons to take along. 2 melta guns will let you pop transports with crew you would like to assault, 2 flamers on top of charging will throw enough wounds to destroy even tough squads like seer council. 

both squads are around the same points properly equipped in rhinos, the csm squad about 20 pts more expensive with flamers. 

Which squad do you think would do better with lash / oblit support for clearing objectives?


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## Eva (Mar 16, 2010)

I prefer the Zerkers. Easier to hit and wound on the charge, as I assume you'll be charging the objective. Plus the extra initiative is nice.


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## Ishamael (Aug 26, 2008)

After a long absence, the Blood God has bade me return to Heresy with his blessings.

Although the Zerks are becoming more and more of a joke, my love for them remains undiminished. One aspect of sustainability once in combat wasn't addressed. Zerks have the double-edged blade of Fearless, meaning that they will stick around in that combat, and will not run away if a combat turns against them (which is very possible). Really, unless you're a fool for them like myself, it's better to run MSU Plague Marine squads for redundancy and utility's sake.

Note: I ask for a list to look at, as well as to why your opponents don't just mech up to ignore lash altogether.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

Form CSM with the mark of Khorne to be trully efficient, you would need a large squad in order to chew everything fast and make the icon cost spread out nicely. However, that unit won't fit in a vehicle, and footslogging chaos is not really advisable.


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## TaelWB (Dec 27, 2009)

As for me zerks are better than marked CSM, but MoK CSM can be more useful if you are playing lowpoint games (400-500 or may be even 750).


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

Fearless, furious charge, additional weapon skill are the three reasons why I prefer Zerkers to CSM w/MoK. The only real upside to taking the CSM w/MoK is the ability to bring meltas/flamers into the fight, but if you're looking for pure melee win, the zerkers are still the way to go


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## Keelia (Aug 3, 2009)

Sandbar said:


> The point of this thread is to explore the differences in effectiveness between a squad of khorne berzerkers and a squad of chaos space marines with icon of khorne. More specifically this is to look at how these squads would preform in a 1500 - 2000 pt lash / oblit list.
> 
> zerks are good for high volume of powerful attacks, but cannot carry special weapons. In this point range chaos needs a hard hitting cc unit and zerks work very well in that role.
> 
> ...



How are they 3 base attacks? The CSM with mark? I see 1 base +1(ccw+pistol)+1 for mark.

Be careful how you word things because they are not 3 base attacks they are 1 with bonouses.


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## Handbag of Joy (Dec 1, 2007)

I'm sure he just meant they have 3 attacks identical to the zerks.

Personally, I prefer zerks, but I do see the versatility in CSM as better.

Also objective holding for csm is a lot more point worthy.

Zerks do have a strong psychological effect on the field though. It's like seeing kharn, you don't care what he does his name alone makes you wanna kill him from a far distance.

To be honest the best to me is zerks accompanied by a smaller squad of mok csm to hold the objective the zerks just cleared out.


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## Supersonic Banana (Jul 23, 2010)

I prefer zerkers as they hit much harder and I don't see the point of MoK on CSM as on a ten man squad it only results in the death of one more MEQ and the icon is double the points. A loss in my books.


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## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

I don't generally find an IoK squad to be worth it. With a little planning, 2x Flamers would do you better while being 20 points cheaper. 

If Zerkers aren't available or you don't have the points for them the IoK is an acceptable replacement, but in a dedicated CC capacity zerkers win hands down.


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## Flame80010 (Dec 2, 2009)

Zerkers (Specificly the champs with powerfists) will win in combat every time in a fight between CSM w/ MoK or Zerkers

Zerkers have 2 base attacks +1 for using Pistol and CCW plus they have furious charge (which is the Coup de grâce in my opinion)

Zerkers while slightly less versitile for ranged combat (Ranged combat is very un-Khorny!) are beasts in CC, especialy on the charge

and while fearless is a double edged sword these days, unless they are vsing somthing along the lines on a CC based MC (REMEMBER ALWAYS HAVE A SKULLCHAMP WITH POWERFIST FOR BERSERKERS) or HEAVILY combat based squad (i cant really think of somthing other then TH/SS Termi's that would cause that much of a threat to Zerkers in CC) your going to deminlish them with Berserkers

MoK CSM's just seem a waste when they can get shooty weapons and would be better off with MoT or MoN instead


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

here is my oppinion if you are going to spend the points to give the unit a god mark you might aswell just make them a cult unit. yes what you said is true you can take special weapons that you cant in a cult squad but honestly you should have other units that can do the job. for instance i run noise marines. my first thought was like yours i thought damn no melta weapon choice for tanks. but then i realized that i dont need the melta weapon for the tank because im never going to use that unit to try and pop tanks. im going to use lascannons. so thats my tid bit. my advice if youre going to spend 30 points for MoK you might aswell take bezerkers. leave the heavy support to take care of tanks you should be more worried about getting those bezerkers into combat with an enemy troop hq or elite. if you want to take something with tank popping capability take plasma pistols or a powerfist. but even then you dont really need it because your strength 5 against back armor 10 with a bezerker squad.


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