# Land Raider Redeemer, or Crusader?!



## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

So, I am getting a landraider, now I am torn between the firepower of a Crusader, or the Template MeQ eating awesome of the redeemer.

I am leaning towards the redeemer, but for one problem, the template is 9" So the optimal killing range is around 6-8" but if I leave only even a few squad members of the enemy alive, Im looking at getting charged with a Powerclaw/fist/chainfist or being in optimum melta range. Which is a problem.

But the Crusader seems to be higher in the "Win" department, it doesnt have any Ap 3, true, but it has a high volume of firepower.

Thoughts?

Note: This wont be used as a transport vehicls, at least for now, so dont consider the transporting aspect.


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## OpTi (Aug 29, 2009)

if i was taking an assault unit such as TH/SS termies i'd take a redeemer, anything the flamestorm cannons don't kill the termies should be able to mop up. It's also 10 pts cheaper than a crusader which means you can fit a multimelta for a little extra tank busting if you choose.

I guess it depends on what you're transporting but i can't say i like the crusader myself but that could just be due to the way i would use it.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> I am leaning towards the redeemer, but for one problem, the template is 9" So the optimal killing range is around 6-8" but if I leave only even a few squad members of the enemy alive, Im looking at getting charged with a Powerclaw/fist/chainfist or being in optimum melta range. Which is a problem


Yeah, you sort of answered your own question here. The Redeemer has more potential to inflict heavy damage in a single turn on MEQs (and most other targets) but is brutally vulnerable to many of the most dangerous weapons after doing so. Since you're not going to bother using the Raider as a transport and instead intend to use it as a gun platform, there's no need to use a vehicle that requires that you get so close. Much better to stay further back and stay alive. In fact, I'd actually suggest a normal Land Raider over either the Crusader or Redeemer for this role, but if it comes down to the two variants, grab the Crusader.


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## OpTi (Aug 29, 2009)

i'm a complete spoon and missed the no transport thingy, but i still wouldn't use a crusader as a gun platform, i mean 6 TL boltguns and a tl assault cannon for 250pts?

a standard raider would be more useful with 2 TLLC i reckon


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## Nyustukyi (Jul 10, 2010)

Int he role of assaulting normal Land Raider. As for the purposed question, Redeemer. Personally, I am going to run 2 Cursaders and Redeemer/Normal depending on how I feel. Of cOurse I need transports and shooty stuff so.


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## The Thunder of KayVaan (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm placing my vote on Redeemer. 6" move, fire one cannon, POTMS other cannon = lots of dead marines.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

I would only take the redeemer if you are transporting assault terminators. Send the redeemer in, fire, terminators disembark and assault. Sorted.

As for LR that aren't transporting, a crusader unleashes a massive 4 S6 AP4 shots, 18 S5 AP4 shots, all twin-linked. Nothing able to instant death marines, but the sheer amount of firepower is bound to bring a lot of marines down. It lacks obvious anti-tank capabilities though.

A normal LR gets 3 S5 AP4 shots, and 2 S9 AP2 shots, all twin-linked. If you shoot at infantry, I think the crusader will kill more marines, even though it won't ID, due to the sheer amount of fire. The normal LR is obviously better at popping heavy armour though.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

For a gunline tank get a standard raider. Or if allowed an achilles.


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## Mathai (Sep 1, 2010)

Since you arent considering the transport aspect, I wont talk about it. Though Land Raiders ARE just big taxis in my book. :biggrin:

My playtime with the Crusader for my Grey Knights has me feel that, transport asside, you should go with the Redeemer. The crusader has always been a good support gun platform for me after dropping its Terminators, but on its own I dont want to pay 250 some odd points for _support._ Conversely, I have played against Redeemers before, and its always something I have to worry about. It can ignore everything except invulnerable saves most of the time, and that is scary. I myself would never play it by running it straight down the middle to stop the oponnenrt's main push, but instead get into their back lines and heavy weapons then wreak havoc there.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Only problem with redeemers and no terminators to assault after is if you don't kill every model you open yourself up to assault. A warboss with PK could do it fairly well, and then you can say goodbye to a lot of points.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Well I am not looking at the transport aspect at the moment, seeing as I have no assault termies currently. (working on it) 

and what is the achilles? isnt that the one with multimeltas? Is it in IA?


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

No, it has experimental rules but will be in IA10 methinks. You will need your opponents permission to use it but it is solid and packs a lot of guns.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Well I figured on the permisson thing, but hmm that sounds good. Thanks for the heads up!


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

If nothing else I'd recommend putting a small tac squad in there so it's scoring.

Honestly, I'd avoid the Achilles. It's cool, but against some armies the special rules are useless and against others it horrendously nerfs them. You're unfairly boning armies that require on lances or melta to kill vehicles, but armies with good ordanance or railguns you'll pop rather quickly nonetheless. That doesn't strike me as being particularly fun for anyone.


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## Mathai (Sep 1, 2010)

Yeah, I strongly disike the Achilles for the above reasons. If something makes half the armies out there pretty much impotent without designing those armies specifically for one single vehicle, then its not going to be fun.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Just a quick question; does the crusader have 2x3 boltguns, or 2x3 heavy bolters? It says in the codex 'bolter', but in the codex the boltguns aren't listed as bolters, but the heavy bolters have the word bolters in it.

So what is it, boltguns or heavy bolters?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Ultra111 said:


> Just a quick question; does the crusader have 2x3 boltguns, or 2x3 heavy bolters? It says in the codex 'bolter', but in the codex the boltguns aren't listed as bolters, but the heavy bolters have the word bolters in it.
> 
> So what is it, boltguns or heavy bolters?


Crusaders have normal bolters (boltguns). The Land Raider Prometheus has heavy bolters.


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## Bhaal006 (Apr 11, 2010)

I have to agree with almost everybody else if your not transporting any models then the standard landraider is the way to go.


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

i use BA so i take assault marines in a redeemer with a baal on either side, charge them at my enemy then charge out with 10 marines and a priest for FNP  PWNAGE hahahahahahaha


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## Mr.Juggernaught (Nov 16, 2010)

Firstly what are you going to be up against and secondly land raiders are not gun platforms. If you take a land raider you must use it to throw something into assault so some terminators or other combat unit. If you want something to shoot your foe pick something else. Get some devastators or some predators or maybe a thunder fire cannon or a whirlwind. Just not a land raider as it is not a gun platform.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Mr.Juggernaught said:


> Firstly what are you going to be up against and secondly land raiders are not gun platforms. If you take a land raider you must use it to throw something into assault so some terminators or other combat unit. If you want something to shoot your foe pick something else. Get some devastators or some predators or maybe a thunder fire cannon or a whirlwind. Just not a land raider as it is not a gun platform.


You forgot the best tank in the codex, bar it's range; Vindicators!


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