# New to Fantasy and Vampire Counts.



## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

i am coming off a 2 year 40k tour and have found that though it is entertaining it is not the game i seek, and have so naturally come to warhammer fantasy. lets start off with me say, i have NO IDEA what i am doing as of yet, i have picked an army, bought the army book, read it thoroughly, grasp most of it, but without the actual game rule am slightly lost in the dark. i have read a few battle reports and for the most part am working out an understanding of the battle system, and to me, it looks like more strategy then 40k which is a plus. I am going to get the big bad rule book of doom in the next week or so, and upon finishing that refreshingly long winded read will atempt to piece together an army that functions and fits my needs. the reason for this thread however is so i may "bite" the proverbial neck of heresy and gather as much info as i can from people who have played my army. I grasp that vampire counts love their magic phase, and that much if not all of the core units are complete fodder, with of course the ghouls being the better of the zombies and skeletons.

so what i would like to know first, how would you use a corpse cart or carts, and how would you equip them? whats better the lode stone or the bale fire?

which unit is a better Hammer unit, black knights or blood knights?

is a black coach worth it?

and i shall leave you with these queries for now, as i have a billion more...but this is a decent start.


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## Blackhiker (Dec 28, 2007)

Count Bathoria said:


> so what i would like to know first, how would you use a corpse cart or carts, and how would you equip them? whats better the lode stone or the bale fire?


My suggestion is usually go with the lodestone. because the cart should always be sandwiched between 2 units for it's miasma effect so when you invoc those units you get the bonus.



Count Bathoria said:


> which unit is a better Hammer unit, black knights or blood knights?


Blood Knights are by far better, but for point wise the black knights are a bit better. If you want to have one of them guaranteed then I would suggest the black knights to save room for the other rare choices. But make sure you toss a character in with them.



Count Bathoria said:


> is a black coach worth it?


It may not be as awesome as it once was, but I still love it. (I built my own to save money) And I almost never play a game without it. Good armor and ward saves not to mention terror.



Count Bathoria said:


> and i shall leave you with these queries for now, as i have a billion more...but this is a decent start.


Go ahead and load us up. :victory:


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

You will probably find this guide written by MaidenManiac in the _An Introduction to the Armies of Warhammer_ thread useful as well. As far as the game itself, Fantasy has much more emphasis on the movement phase so it is arguably more tactical than 40k, though that depends on the game and the players to some degree.

If you get chance, try dropping in to a GW (I know they are a bit sparse in the states but you may have a local) and asking them for an intro game, it will help to give you a feel for the gameplay.


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

Thank you for your input thus far, as it will probably aid me in army construction.

cairn wraiths and banshees are they worth their points?

is the varghulf as nasty as i belive it to be, or does it fall short of the hype?

of the specail units, it seems to me that black knights and grave gaurd are the most useful, is this so?

is it best to field a couple of zombie tarpits as i've seen them called or should I just summon them?

as with 40k it seems numbers play a factor here, so being able to add to units sizes is extremely good, but which are the best to take of the three summon abilitys that effect invocation of nehek? ghouls, wolves, or skeletons?


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

to squeek:

i unfortunatly do not live near a GW as the closest one to me is almost 300 miles south.
i had hoped that there was a sort of vassal program for fantasy? i was reading about the 40k one, but would be more interested in a fantasy one as i know how to play 40k already. and thanks for the guide i'll be sure to check it out after work!


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## Gharof von Carstein (May 19, 2008)

the summon powers for skeletons and ghouls are worth it considering which of the two core units you wish to focus on. (id advise ghouls as im a big VC player myself and ghouls are just superior to skellies) dont ever take the summon creatures of the night ability seeing as it sucks. your right in understanding that the black knights and the graveguard are the only specials really worth it. the graveguard should be fielded in a unit minimum of 20 and the black knights are most effective in units of 5-7. 

cairn wraiths are great in small games where most people dont bother to take a lot of magic or magical weapons and in big games they can be good but only because a unit of 5 (the bare minimum if you ask me) isnt that big of a point sink (im talking games of 3k and over) overall ethereal, Movement 6 with 3 str5 attacks (due to great weapons) is nothing to laugh at. banshees on the other hand are utterly crap. you spent 25 points to lose 2 attacks and 2 strength points for a shooting ability which might do 1 to 2 wounds per battle but will mostly underwhelm you. in short, dont take banshees. they suck. 

varghulf is all that and a bag of chips. he really really is. just keep him away from warmachines targeting and flaming attacks, he cant stand up to big blocks of units by himself but is a great warmachine hunter and small unit killer (this guy will pound on cavalry units that are mostly 5-10 in size and will be great as a supporting charger) with both the varghulf and the cairn wraiths the terror aspect is a big help as well. i cant tell you how often a failed terrortest makes some guys just turn tail and run never to come back again. 

hope this helps


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## Blackhiker (Dec 28, 2007)

Count Bathoria said:


> Thank you for your input thus far, as it will probably aid me in army construction.
> 
> cairn wraiths and banshees are they worth their points?


They are okay, but I prefer the varghulf



Count Bathoria said:


> is the varghulf as nasty as i belive it to be, or does it fall short of the hype?


It is an awesome unit just don't attack a big block of enemies with only him.



Count Bathoria said:


> of the specail units, it seems to me that black knights and grave gaurd are the most useful, is this so?


I tend to agree with you on this. Spirit hosts are nice, but I only suggest buying them for the Wind of Undeath spell. And as for the fell bats, I find bat swarms much more worth the points. Because the flyers are good because they can fly over enemy units and charge the artillery.



Count Bathoria said:


> is it best to field a couple of zombie tarpits as i've seen them called or should I just summon them?


Usually it is not a good idea to waste points on zombies. Because with this list you should have nine or ten power dice and you only need 1 to raise zombies. your opponent can't stop them all.



Count Bathoria said:


> as with 40k it seems numbers play a factor here, so being able to add to units sizes is extremely good, but which are the best to take of the three summon abilitys that effect invocation of nehek? ghouls, wolves, or skeletons?



well in this list you have three units of skeletons and one unit of ghouls. For that I suggest getting the lord of death for the skellies because you can still heal the units of ghouls back to starting numbers, but being able to raise three units above that is a lot funner


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

thanks to all of you for your aid thus far, i will keep adding questions as it not only aids ME, but i am sure if this continues we may have the start of a rather extensive introduction to VC heresy style!

moving on, Core Units, the units i assume that fantasy focus's on most, you have skeletons, ghouls and zombies that can fill your army requirments. but what of the usefulness of dire wolves, bat swarms and corpse carts? are they worht their points and how do they function in game play?

Are Wight Kings a viable choice when vampires seem to fill its role a bit better?

does the necromance pull his weight of should a vampire do his job aswell?

what, if any, of the VC specail characters are worth their weight? or like most 40k characters, are they crap?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I think the Wight King is only good when leading a unit of Black Knights/Grave Guard, and with the Sword of Kings, otherwise you're missing out on a Spell Casting/Combat Monster, despite the lack of armour.

Black Knights are better, I find, as they are far cheaper - give them a few more models (a 10 strong, with a leader, either a Wight Lord or Vampire with Steed can be very nasty. Take a Flying Vampire Lord with the Helm of Commandment, and have it drop behind the Black Knights, along with the Skull Staff. Give the Black Knights either a BSB with the Dragonhof Banner, and the standard bearer with Banner of the Barrows, and you have a very tasty unit hitting on a 2+, most common core units hitting on a 5+, Regeneration, with Killing Blow.

Very nice Hammer unit, but rather a large point sink.


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

ok, so i am absorbing this info at a rapid rate and loving it all. I have a few astetic questions, as i am sure not everyone is plesed with some of the older VC models. what does everyone think of a tomb king with hand weapon and sheild as a wight king? as i probably will still want atleast one.

what are the most potent of the spells in the army book?are the damage spells worth it or is it best to focus on raise dead/invokation of nehek/ vanhels danse Macabre?

i have asked how a corpse cart works, but until now i haven't asked if its worth it to use one? or should i go with more dire wolves?

zombie dragons and abyssal terrors? are they worth their points and $$$ to act as mounts only? or are they so much more?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Corpse Carts: If you're going infantry heavy with Core units, then yes. If not, then no.

Vampire Lords aren't worth the expenditure for 2000pts games. Now, I won't ever really consider a lord for anything under 2500, at least, or even stretch that to 3000.

Just giving them either Monstrous Mounts means your Lord which can cost anywhere from 400pts on foot now costs 700+ pts. That gives you 2-3 more heroes, a hammer unit, 3 smallish cores, and a special unit (Corpse Cart, Varghulf), which isn't playing to the strengths of Vampire Counts - FEAR Causing. Not TERROR causing, but FEAR.

I emphasise again - FEAR. Ever watched Night of the Living Dead? Evil Dead? Shawn of the Dead? Each and everyone has 2 bazillion zombies in. Now apply that to skeletons, zombies of Crypt Ghouls. You outnumber, despite being bollocks (not the Dogs bollocks, just bollocks) in combat, one on one, but having 2-3 zombies over those Chaos Warriors, and no matter how many times he hits you with a big axe, you outnumber, win the combat, and autobreak him.


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## Gharof von Carstein (May 19, 2008)

zombie dragon and abyssal terror are for big games only too expensive in points to be useful in games under 3k. corpse carts are great! totally worth it asf on a stick is huge! necro can use them as mounts which makes them able to join units making them even better. dire wolves are good flankers and a screening unit like no other. hope that helps again. btw nice gesture to rep me 0 felt like appreciation


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

i am intending on a horde army, TONS of core units. i would like atleast 60 skeletons, 60 Ghouls, 20 Dire wolves, possibly 2 Corpse carts, and about 40-60 zombies waiting to be summoned in.i was thinking about 2 or 3 vapires and a few necromancers. black knights, grave gaurd, a varghulf or 2, and possibly some cairn wraiths...no banshees. i realize that this may not be that large of a horde but its a start lol.


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

i am now moving into equipment. first question, canchampions, seneschal's,and hell knights take equipment from the armory, such as Tomb Blade?

of the magic weapons here i like the sounds of Blood Drinker, sword of Kings, and Tomb Blade...are there any others i should be looking at in this section?

Magic Armour, i like walachs bloody hauberk, the flated Hauberk, and the night shroud..same as above?

in enchanted items the helm of commandment is the only one that really stands out to me, anything else to this section?

Talismans has wristbands of black gold, other then those i am unsure here aswell

Arcane Items, this section seems juicy to me, as Skull Staff, The Book of Arkhan, Sceptre de Noirot, and Black Periapt stand at attention, am i missing something here?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Talisman of Lycni is a very nice weapon for a Vampire - charge him against War Machines like Bolt Throwers and watch them get ripped to shreds. Combine with Talismans of Black Gold for some good protection.

While it may be a good idea with some armies to have really nasty combat Lords, you're missing the bigger picture if you spend 100pts of your limit on Magic Weapons and Armour.

For unit champions, unless it specifically says they have access to Magic Items list, (such as Characters), then no, you may not. Banners, however, are far more useful to your troops - such as Banner of the Barrows, and Banner of Blood Keep, for your Blood Knights, etc.


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## arhain (May 6, 2008)

> i am now moving into equipment. first question, canchampions, seneschal's,and hell knights take equipment from the armory, such as Tomb Blade?


Nope, in the army book only characters and Kastellan



> of the magic weapons here i like the sounds of Blood Drinker, sword of Kings, and Tomb Blade...are there any others i should be looking at in this section?


Sword of Might, cheap and cheerful


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

ok, as of right now it will be me and my two friends playing fantasy at our store. one will be playing skaven the other playing Warriors of Chaos? how would i combat these two very different threats?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Chaos - Tarpit the knights. If any units are Khornate, have Fell Bats tempt them out of line, as because of Frenzy they have to charge, if you flee, they are out of line. Make sure to take advantage though, and have a Black Knight unit nearby to charge in your following turn.

Marauders can be dealt with by Crypt Ghouls - poisoned attacks, and a Vampire continually raising them (consider the Vampiric Power that grants you the ability to raise Crypt Ghouls).

Warhounds should be easy to deal with - Dire Wolves, or Fell Bats.

Skaven are different kettle of fish. They are more numerous at the start than you, but they can't raise them again once they're dead.

Fear is your Friend. Have a lot of Skeletons for this one - they can last longer, and can strike back often enough. In combat, you have a 4+ save, which is good enough to save half, and raise the other half.

Consider several smallish units of Black Knights, one lead by Death Knight Vampire, the other by Wight Lord. Watch out for Rat Ogres - use your black knights with these, or tarpit with Skeles or Zombies.

Have a few Fell bats to scare off any Ratling guns, Warpfire throwers or Warp lightning cannons.


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

so the bat swarms are actually worth it to take? aswell as the fell bats? i am curious could the black knights do the job with their insubstantail steeds? or whatever it is. i just don't know if i want that many bats smaller then the varghulf .


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## Gharof von Carstein (May 19, 2008)

fell bats and bat swarms can have their use but most often wont have. sure a nice small group of 3 to 4 fell bats can easily whipe a warmachine line in a turn or 2 and reach them easy with flying (if they dont get shot themselves first do) another suggestion is dont go for combat oriented vampires before you go all out magic. you need to see how big the magic phase is for vamps before you go all out on combat. you will see that when you experience how much is dependant on raising up units that you will always need a strong magic phase and that balancing out your characters will become a necessity indeed.

magic weapon wise, i advise against anything other than the blood drinker for a vamp with dread knight joining knight unit. or the black axe of krell/sword of kings for a wight king. Wight kings are combat monsters but if your not planning on fielding a BSB than forget about using him. wight kings hurt your magic phase. necromancers help your magic phase but dont keep your army moving. they can never become higher than lvl 1 which hurts, the upside is they can just buy necromancy spells (IoN, vanhels, raise dead,) to aid your army if your not sure your vamps will roll the spells. (ergo take necros if you cant take a lord that will basically know all the spells.) as vanhels is just that important.

dont forget that you cant take more than one arcane item on a character(unless noted otherwise like with mannfred). you cant combine magical armours and you cant have several magical weapons. helm of commandment and black periapt and book of arkhan are basic must haves. second tier must haves for me are sceptre de noirot, staff of damnation, hand of dust, wristbands of black gold, crown of the damned.


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

but crown of the damned causes stupidity, isn't that a bad thing? { i don't know how stupidity works yet lol}


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## Gharof von Carstein (May 19, 2008)

thats why crown of the damned should only be put on a lord. the way stupidity works is that at the start of your turn you test for characters with stupidity. you throw 2 dice and if the result of the 2 dice is lower than or equal to your characters LD (leadership stat) or your generals LD if he is within 12 inches (you can always use your generals LD for LD tests if he is within 12 inches of the subject needing to test) than you have passed the stupidity test and the char can act as normal that turn. as you can see failing a LD10 test would be extremely hard. you will only ever beat 10 with the roll of a 5 and 6 or double 6. which makes the risk extremely small. the 3+ ward save on the other hand ensures that you will save 2 out of 3 wounds every time. (mathematically speaking) which is just too big a pro to neglect. 

should your char fail his stupidity test (it still happens sometimes) he will only be allowed to stumble forward for half his movement and stop. should he get into combat by doing this he will fight as normal. so the downside is that he doesnt get to cast spells/move his maximum speed, charge, shoot etc.


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

I'm doing a VC army at the moment, and my one tip: do not disregard Konrad.


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## Gharof von Carstein (May 19, 2008)

but be wary of using him as well. i speak of experience here. lets break konrad down.

konrad has a 5+ armour save. is either stupid or frenzied. can have potentially a lot of attacks (yes they keep triggering on each other) but the breaks are he has M6 like any vampire. meaning if he is frenzied and in a unit with M4 (likely) he MUST charge out if he can attack a target. meaning he can attack a full blown unit alone. static CR can kill him. the problem with konrad is that if you pitch him against any unit with several wounds konrad will probably rip through it like a tornado through tissue paper. this is because his sword that does multiple wounds only ever does so on a unit that has multiple wounds! you can never deal more wounds to a model than it has on its profile (logical as you cant kill over and over whats been killed) only in a challenge can konrad do more wounds than a model has, problem is this is capped at a overkill of 5 (check challenges section of the BRB if your confused here) 

you do not want to field konrad out in the open on his own because anything that can shoot at him will and his shoddy armour and just 2 wounds on his profile will make him easy pickings... 

another thing is konrad is not a lvl 1 wizard. he is the exception to the vampire rule (along with the blood knights and varghulf) meaning he does not contribute anything to your magic phase which is argueably the most important phase for a vampire counts player. 

Konrad can however singlehandedly ruin a daemon player and empire players day. steam tanks are cake for this guy. if he is charged in as a supporting character with another unit, you will probably win on combat result alone. the problem is getting konrad into combat in one piece. 

another obstacle with konrad is that his LD of 7 is waaaayyyy to low to let him wonder too far from your general. he needs the higher LD to be of use or else he'll just wonder about mindlessly and stupid. in a ideal situation konrad is fielded just behind a unit of wraiths who are near the general's unit on a flank. konrad will keep them marching and the wraiths can keep up with him movement wise. they still block LOS to him even do they are ethereal and together will probably whipe out anything that crosses their path. 

i myself have a big weakness for konrad due to his potential to be a absolute killer, the cons and strategies needed to field him and his potential randomness however have made me often decide not to. its your choice do.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

You can't move out of a unit and charge - you can only leave the unit during remaining movement, and charge in your own turn.

And as you move as fast as the slowest speed, he is able to move 4, if he's in a Grave Guard/Skele unit.

But I'd always keep the general near him, and either a cheap IoN Necromancer, or another Vampire nearby to heal him.


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

ok, so what your all saying is stupidity sucks but its really not as bad as it could be, and less likely to happen to some one who rolls low on his LD checks like i do.

your also telling me that Konrad is quite possibly the nastiest CC character in the VC army? thats scary as i rather enjoy his fluff and had been thinking about using him.

i am also curious, how does a vlad & isabella army run?

and if your patient enough, or kind enough< whats the best use for good ole mannfred?


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

a) you can charge out of a unit

b) Konrad, if near enough to the general, in a 6 turn game will only ever succumb (statistically) to stupidity for 1 turn.

You just have to be careful.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Stupidity can make you fail that all important charge, and make them useless for a turn (ooooh, what does that button do???, look at the pretty flowers etc). However, while it's a risk putting it onto your Lord, you also have the far higher Leadership to test with.

If he's integral to your plan (which with 2 other vampires/spellcasters shouldn't be), then I wouldn't advocate putting it on him, but the risk over reward (which is integral - do I charge charge those spearmen, and get chopped to bits, but if I succeed, I can will win the game, for example, is one of such a decision, you will get used to it as you play more) is worth it.

I'm not "up wit da bloods", so I can't comment on best use for Mannfred. Still, he's the Archaon (if that means anything to you) of the Vampire Counts. He's a beast.


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## arhain (May 6, 2008)

The little bugger almost killed my star dragon:cray:


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

what army has the star dragon? and which little bugger almost killed it, konrad or mannfred?


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## arhain (May 6, 2008)

High Elf and Konrad.

Starry only lived becaused i rolled a double 6 for Starry's armour save
(Almost lost the game:shok


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

holy Sh!t! maybe he will be worth buying. i don't know much about the game but i don't forsee many being able to kill a dragon while they themselves are tiny little guys.

i'm looking at possibly going with vlad for my main lord, and because i am an avid Cradle of Filth fan, am planning on green stuffing a hanging Mic in his hand and calling him dani, but is vlad a worth it character. i see he's a spellcaster of extra-ordinary means, and almost impossible to kill in CC thanks to his sword and wife, is this still a viable army choice?


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## Gharof von Carstein (May 19, 2008)

well i broke down konrad for you. i might as well break down my two other favorite models for you as well. along with the ball and chain of one of them.

Oke here we go!

Vlad von carstein:

he's the granddaddy of everything undead coming out of sylvania. the guy basically started it all and i just love his fluff story in the armybook. hes a combat guy thats also a lvl 3 wizard so he isnt too shabby on the magic as well. two cons on the big spanky hero of our race.

1) for the points he isnt really all that handy on the abilities. hes trying to do to many things at once instead of focussing on one thing or the other. preferably id rather have him be either good in combat or magic. he doesnt know all the spells in the vampire lore which blows for a lord. this makes him mediocre lord at best at low level games and only a nice fluff choice at the higher ones (where he can take a lord type friend along to help on the casting) he also has a few dodgy abilities, the auro of dark majesty is not a power any of us would like to blow the points on. the fact he causes terror is nice and all but again not what you'd like to use him for. 

2) the magic items he carries are nice. but they also make him a bit iffy as well. the blooddrinker is pure spankage and should be outfitted on vampires that will be fielded in units that you would like to see replenished for free. the von carstein ring grants vlad the immortality thing and a 4+ ward as he is the master of the ring (sauron rip off in progress) lets be honest. the ring is nice. but 1 out of 6 times it will still totally screw you over. this is not a gamble you would like to take with your general. but sure it can work as a nice game saver should your general be attacked. the point is, a VC player hardly ever throws his general in the lines of fire where he can get seriously hurt. hence the von carstein ring is only nice for the ward save. but as discussed before a better ward save is available with the crown of the damned. putting that on a lord that is tooled for the specific purpose your gonna use him for is a lot better than having vlad being all random on your field. 

pairing vlad with isabella gives him the potential to grow all frenzied and stuff for the remainder of the battle. this however does mean that you will have to actually waste a hero slot on a lvl 1 vampire that again does not know all spells, has a sucky ability and is very vulnerable to attack. (that blood chalice of bathory is a nice gimmick but honestly, your not gonna use it that often) so for isabella to be usefull she has gotta kick the bucket. thats 90 VP your opponent has from the start of the battle. 90 vp doesnt sound like much but it could be the difference between a draw and a minor victory. and for what? to make your vlad (who is probably your general) a liability? sure he gets the extra attack etc but now hes gonna charge out of units by himself. is that really what you want? if so go ahead. im sure you can play around it. but the same warning as with konrad applies here. 

In short, vlad is certainly not a waste of points, he is however inferior to most lords that you can tool for specific purposes (most tooled out lord wont go higher than 450p max) and which will fill the role you want them to fill perfectly. with vlad you get all this extra crap which is nice but you would have to fit your army to suite him, when making a lord it should be the other way around.

off to the next special guy;

Mannfred von carstein.

What can i say about mannfred? he has just one con, why the hell does he have two summoning powers that are practically useless? summon creatures of the night is useless straight up, you will never want to specifically raise monsters over starting size, and seeing as most creatures can only ever regain a single wound from one casting of invocation they will grow very slowly as well. its a waste pure and simple.

lord of the dead i only consider to be a waste as ghouls are superior to skeletons. if you however are planning on fielding those mass skeleton armies than him having this is just pure cake. 

mannfred is magic wise the most powerfull vampire ever. he is the only one that automatically knows all spells from not only the lore of the vamps but the lore of death as well (which has some kewl spells) he generates a whooping minimum of 6 power dice and if he happens to cause some wounds (which he could easily do with a 3+ armour save and 4 attacks at a strength that is nothing to snease at) he generates a extra dispel or power dice per wound for his next magic phase (which is very big!) his armour also gives him 5 wounds which means he is very very hard to kill as he can always heal himself.

he is also the only guy that can lighten the magic item burden from your hero choices. where you had to divide those arcane items at first he just steps up and gets to take 2 for their listed point values. ya ill take the skull staff and book of arkhan on him every single time.

but thats where the problem starts. hes a point sink. hes awesome but completly tooled out our good friend mannfred costs 595p thats a lot for a lord. some would say too much (especially for one that doesnt come higher than a 3+ AS with no ward and no way of getting one, save for a BSB in his unit) 

the way i see it mannfred is the only viable Special character in the vamps book. sure he cant keep taking hits forever but he isnt dropped instantly as well. i had mannfred win a challenge against a tyrant simply by healing himself every magic phase. the thing is, he doesnt have to participate in combat. he is such a big threat magic wise that your opponent can not ignore him for long.

its all your own flavour of choice personally. i use the vlad model personally cause he looks kewl. same with mannfred the model is awesome and i use it for every vampire lord that i mount. the special chars however have the drawbacks they are fixed to their rolls. which is oke if you can fit them into your army. tooling your own lord is far more rewarding however. its a art which you need to master (you need to balance him out but not to a point where he is weakened from trying to do to much) but you'll get there im sure


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

in essence, yes, its viable, but costly at 2k.

Character wise i run:

Magic heavy lord, 2 combat/raiser vamps, konrad.


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

i'm planning an even split of ghouls and skeletons. i'm also thinking MASSIVE numbers of both as i love to see large numbers of undead {army of darkness comes to mind} it sounds like i will probably stick to my original plan and just use a generic no named vapire for my lord and end up writing the fluff. for vamprie models i'll end up using the winged lord for my lord, then a bunch of the female vampires for thralls and the likes.


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