# do you agree with the philosophy of polypsykana



## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

*■Polypsykana - An offshoot of the Xanthites, the Polypsykana is a Radical faction of the Inquisition obsessed with the power of psykers. Its members believe that the psyker is a natural evolution of Man's slow development into a higher being. The faction believes that this transformation is inevitable and ultimately humanity's only salvation in such a dangerous universe. To this end, members work to protect and nurture psykers and increase the role they play within the Imperium. 
*

is this the evolution of mankind to being a pure psychic race? is this the destiny of the imperium?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

It has been stated that humanity is becoming more psyker than non.


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

Hard to tell. I myself do not think that is the way to go when I compare with the Eldar. The eldar evolved into a psychic race before the immaterium hungered after their souls. Now with the immaterium always seek to infiltrate and Possess mankind and psykers are one of their favoured paths I have a hard time to see humanity evolve to a psychic race. If evolution has it's course I think the opposite. Then I don't know about IOM's stand on selective breeding, in that case they employ it to have more psykers that may resistent the gods of chaos then maybe, but only maybe since I believe it be a perilious path niether way.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Personally I agree to it, but its not a done deal. The human mind needs time to prepare and there are born more psykers for each generation according to the rulebooks.


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## Loki1416 (Apr 20, 2010)

Honestly, if it makes you happy, go for it. Just don't try to force your beliefs on me is all I care about.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Loki1416 said:


> Honestly, if it makes you happy, go for it. Just don't try to force your beliefs on me is all I care about.


Everyone has opinions. Thats what going on forums is about. I personally detest people that tries to present their opinions as the truth. Its their truth, not necessarily my truth.

And everyone reads something different, just watch any discussion here.

What are your opinions about this matter? I'm sort of curious now.


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## Loki1416 (Apr 20, 2010)

@Beaviz81

My honest opinion is that it's stupid. But I also think scientology is stupid. We all believe in something (even if you believe in nothing, that is still something).


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Loki1416 said:


> @Beaviz81
> 
> My honest opinion is that it's stupid. But I also think scientology is stupid. We all believe in something (even if you believe in nothing, that is still something).


You make good points even if a bit disrespectful. And its an interesting take on polypsykana to compare it to Scientology, can you elaborate on that point if you don't mind?


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Loki1416 said:


> Honestly, if it makes you happy, go for it. Just don't try to force your beliefs on me is all I care about.


That is the trouble with psykers, isn't it? They get into your mind and force you to believe even stupid things you'd normally never agree to, buoahahahahahahah! :laugh:


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## Loki1416 (Apr 20, 2010)

@Beaviz81
I'm not comparing either religion to any other. I'm also not trying to be disrespectful to anyone or what they do/don't believe in. So really there is nothing for me to elaborate on. 
The way I go through life is that I believe what I believe and don't care what anyone else believes in. Not to say that I'm short sighted or not empathetic (think that's the word) for others beliefs. If someone wants to have a rational conversation then I'm all for it. What I wont put up with is someone who has to stand on a soap box and shout to the world what their beliefs are and try and force me to like it. 
For example (and everyone, take this the way I mean it, the way I say it. Don't blow it all out of context): The gay community. First of all, yes, I think they should have the same rights as anyone else. Want to get married? Fine! Want to adobt? Fine! I realize that to get the changes that are needed, then there has to be some waves made. But I think there are a LOT better ways to do it than the most vocal idiots have gone about it. (Again, I am NOT saying anything bad about anyone who is gay/lesbian/bi/trans/ or any other way they want to identify their self). I just want to live and let live.
Few months ago two men came to my door to tell me about the Later Day Saints. Because my personal stance is not what they believe in, I politely told them that I wasn't interested and that I wish them a great day. We shook hands and they left. No harsh words, no hard feelings. In fact, because they didn't push the issue, I actually respected them a ton more. 
Ok, I'm done rambling!


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## Warhawk (Oct 2, 2014)

Remind me why an immaterial, non-essential storytelling device is apparently just as divisive and politically loaded as real life issues?

I disagree with polypsykana. Humanity has done quite well for itself considering it lacked psychic powers, and I see no argument as to why it 'must' become that way. Besides, evidence shows that the transition to psykers is utterly uncontrolled: Imagine whole worlds turning at once. They'd immediately rip open the Warp and spew daemons all over the place. Humanity has far too much to learn as a species before it steps into the same territory as the Eldar and with the same hubris.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Warhawk said:


> Remind me why an immaterial, non-essential storytelling device is apparently just as divisive and politically loaded as real life issues?


Um, religion? Sorry, I just couldn't help myself... and this statement in no way endorses the Ecclisiarchy.

I do agree with you about the uncontrollable evolutionary psychic nature of humanity posing a clear mortal threat. I just don't think that's a good enough reason to kidnap or hunt down every individual born with the gene, sterilize them and sacrifice them to the big bright light on Terra.


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## Doom wolf (Oct 10, 2014)

Well, it really depend.

Psyker are more and more appearing, but it doesn't mean that they are the next step of evolution. Maybe they are just an appearing clade, and nothing is here to say that this clade in particular will survive long, esecially when you consider the danger of the warp.

Magnus the red had a vision similar about the future, but I doubt it was the only way, and it seems that the emperor had his idea too about the future of mankind.

For example, if you take Neanderthal, he was probably more efficient in some way, more civilized, but it disappeared nonetheless.

So Psyker are important, for without them, the imperium would fall, but not THAT important that the imperium would have to put all his eggs in this bag in particular.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Warhawk said:


> Remind me why an immaterial, non-essential storytelling device is apparently just as divisive and politically loaded as real life issues?
> 
> I disagree with polypsykana. Humanity has done quite well for itself considering it lacked psychic powers, and I see no argument as to why it 'must' become that way. Besides, evidence shows that the transition to psykers is utterly uncontrolled: Imagine whole worlds turning at once. They'd immediately rip open the Warp and spew daemons all over the place. Humanity has far too much to learn as a species before it steps into the same territory as the Eldar and with the same hubris.


Whose to say that isn't for the best? Only human arrogance would assume the galaxy is theirs to rule forever.


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## Warhawk (Oct 2, 2014)

Reaper45 said:


> Whose to say that isn't for the best? Only human arrogance would assume the galaxy is theirs to rule forever.


I'm just going to ignore this appeal for self-extermination cloaked in a guise of "humility," kthx.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Warhawk said:


> I'm just going to ignore this appeal for self-extermination cloaked in a guise of "humility," kthx.


Right now in the imperium anyone could die because a person of questionable sanity found a single piece of taint on their homeworld.

Or they'll be drafted and forced to fight an unknown enemy and potentially dying just to give space marines a chance to stop it.

If they refuse they're shot, if they kill themselves their family could be punished. Even if they survive those same people of questionable sanity could kill them anyways because they could be tainted.


Chaos has none of that, they don't force anything on people if you want something you strike a bargain and you get it,

chaos is freedom.


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## Warhawk (Oct 2, 2014)

Reaper45 said:


> Chaos has none of that, they don't force anything on people if you want something you strike a bargain and you get it,
> 
> chaos is freedom.


Haha, good one...

... you're serious.

Wait, you're actually _serious?

__"This demonic death machine is your ally! It fights for Freedom!"_

uke:


I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you have no business discussing a topic about 'productive' activity as opposed to being mindlessly destructive. Even the Inquisitorial adherents of Polypsykana would jettison you out of an airlock with intentions like that.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Warhawk said:


> Haha, good one...
> 
> ... you're serious.
> 
> ...


Might I suggest picking up the talon of horus?

It shows a fairly good take on the true nature of the warp.

The only difference between the imperium and chaos is that chaos followers aren't lying to themselves as to what's really going on.


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## Doom wolf (Oct 10, 2014)

Reaper45 said:


> Might I suggest picking up the talon of horus?
> 
> It shows a fairly good take on the true nature of the warp.
> 
> The only difference between the imperium and chaos is that chaos followers aren't lying to themselves as to what's really going on.


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Didn't read Talon of Horus -yet-, but I suggest you should read some of the Horus Heresy book.

If I remember well, Chaos has shown to Horus a vision of the future that he was about to trying to prevent by making a rebellion that eventually lead to the very future...

Sound like lies and manipulation to me.

And well, sure, Tzeentch, that good guy is really about truth and freedom, isn't it ? 

Oh, and maybe I should talk about the Nurgle, first the guy infect you with terminal dsease. Second he wait for you that you turn to him in despair, and then, he make you spread those same very disease that got you to him in the first place.

And don't make me begin with Slaanesh !

Only Khorne is quite truthful about his way, too bad that he's so obsessed about one part of his life that when you side with him, you are ending unable to see beyond the next slaughter... Wait !! Wasn't that a form of brainwashing ?

In "_Betrayer_", Argel Tal himself put it that way, in WHK 40K, there's no really good side. He saw the only truth, and for that, for trying to be a good guy, he ended killed by Erebus.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

I've read plenty of the 40K books, and the horus heresy. 

All of them make me root for anyone but the imperium, at least chaos is honest about what it is, unlike the imperium which lies constantly.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> Chaos has none of that, they don't force anything on people if you want something you strike a bargain and you get it,
> 
> chaos is freedom.


Chaos doesn't force anything on people? What about the Chaos Space Marines who horde untold millions of humans into servitude and war? What about the gods who randomly mutate and alter their followers? What about the warp that sends mortals utterly insane? 

Chaos is freedom, I agree. It is freedom from restraint and monotony. But I don't think you can paint a picture of Chaos which results in freedom for everybody, certainly not in the way you're implying anyway. Most Chaos societies we have seen in the lore are ones which are utterly dominated by the strong (mostly Chaos Space Marines or daemons) and ones in which ordinary mortals regularly suffer in servitude - their lives expendable. 



Reaper45 said:


> Might I suggest picking up the talon of horus?
> 
> It shows a fairly good take on the true nature of the warp.
> 
> The only difference between the imperium and chaos is that chaos followers aren't lying to themselves as to what's really going on.


_Talon of Horus_ gives us the example of Chaos Space Marines. It doesn't really show us the 'freedom' of ordinary mortals (apart from the odd mention of the horrible lives of the ship's crew). 



Reaper45 said:


> I've read plenty of the 40K books, and the horus heresy.
> 
> All of them make me root for anyone but the imperium, at least chaos is honest about what it is, unlike the imperium which lies constantly.


Chaos is anything but honest about what it is. It is aware of what it is, but daemons corrupt and enslave by any means at their disposal - after all, daemons are obsessed with corrupting reality and will do anything to achieve their goals. Just look at some of the examples of corruption amongst the Legiones Astartes from the Horus Heresy series. 

If you're claiming the Imperium lies constantly (which it does) you cannot also say that Chaos doesn't. :wacko:


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Chaos doesn't force anything on people? What about the Chaos Space Marines who horde untold millions of humans into servitude and war? What about the gods who randomly mutate and alter their followers? What about the warp that sends mortals utterly insane?
> 
> Chaos is freedom, I agree. It is freedom from restraint and monotony. But I don't think you can paint a picture of Chaos which results in freedom for everybody, certainly not in the way you're implying anyway. Most Chaos societies we have seen in the lore are ones which are utterly dominated by the strong (mostly Chaos Space Marines or daemons) and ones in which ordinary mortals regularly suffer in servitude - their lives expendable.
> 
> ...


I don't remember where is says it but in talon of horus he states that everything chaos does is for a reason. Every mutation is there because it helps their fight.

As for the slaves the way I view it is that chaos works off the principle of natural selection. If you're not strong enough to ensure your own freedom and you don't have a strong enough will to prevent the mutations you don't deserve either.


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## Doom wolf (Oct 10, 2014)

Reaper45 said:


> I don't remember where is says it but in talon of horus he states that everything chaos does is for a reason. Every mutation is there because it helps their fight.
> 
> As for the slaves the way I view it is that chaos works off the principle of natural selection. If you're not strong enough to ensure your own freedom and you don't have a strong enough will to prevent the mutations you don't deserve either.


And what reason it is ? Not the empowerement of chaos thrall, Obviously.

For the second statement, you admit that's your POV, but it translate well into might make right, and that's no better than the imperium. In fact, it's even worse in a sense, because natural selection is the basest order of animality.

Human nature find his power to being able to overcome nature, what animal can't.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Doom wolf said:


> And what reason it is ? Not the empowerement of chaos thrall, Obviously.
> 
> For the second statement, you admit that's your POV, but it translate well into might make right, and that's no better than the imperium. In fact, it's even worse in a sense, because natural selection is the basest order of animality.
> 
> Human nature find his power to being able to overcome nature, what animal can't.


That is what the warp is. It's the basest of emotions.

Everytime a sister of battle incinerates a heretic her hatred of them fuels the warp, every person who experiences emotion fuels it. 

All this talk about overcoming and making better is foolish, at the end of the day everything we do is driven by the most base of instincts.


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## Doom wolf (Oct 10, 2014)

Reaper45 said:


> That is what the warp is. It's the basest of emotions.
> 
> Everytime a sister of battle incinerates a heretic her hatred of them fuels the warp, every person who experiences emotion fuels it.
> 
> All this talk about overcoming and making better is foolish, at the end of the day everything we do is driven by the most base of instincts.


Yup, maybe, but it's tempered and channeled by intellect.

Chaos is just about being unrestrained about that, and not giving a damn about the other people. Surely, those thing exist in the imperium, but it's not the cardinal rules there. Now, show me a chaos corrupted chapter that treat their servitor as well as the Salamander, who are as noble as the Ultramarine, as dutiful as the Imperial Fist and maybe I will begin to consider chaos as a viable alternative.

Chaos isn't naturally present in the galaxy, the eye of terror is a cosmic accident created by an ancient psychic race that wouldn't be really bothering that many people if it weren't for that accident. 

All of the chaos space marines chapters have become caricature of what they were before, without any real restraint or control, nor any real freedom other than to choose who they will destroy, plunder or attack in the name of their gods and the cultist aren't better, either.

Chaos, chaos god and chaos daemons are parasitic cosmic entity that feed on humanity, no more, feeding on their soul by promising power and freedom, when it truth, it give them nothing but eternal slavery.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Doom wolf said:


> Yup, maybe, but it's tempered and channeled by intellect.
> 
> Chaos is just about being unrestrained about that, and not giving a damn about the other people. Surely, those thing exist in the imperium, but it's not the cardinal rules there. Now, show me a chaos corrupted chapter that treat their servitor as well as the Salamander, who are as noble as the Ultramarine, as dutiful as the Imperial Fist and maybe I will begin to consider chaos as a viable alternative.
> 
> ...


The emperor tried to create an imperium that was ruled by rational thinking and logic, know what tore it apart?

Envy, insecurity, hatred. Horus had daddy issues, but he was one primarch. Would peturabo have followed him if he was given the same level of respect as dorn?

Would angron have turned if the emperor allowed his legion, the legion who revered him to fight alongside him and his true gladiator brothers, instead of taking him and leaving them to die.

Every primarch that turned turned because of the primal desires that all humans have.

Secondly 99% of the imperium treats their servants as slaves. The only difference between them and chaos is that chaos isn't lying to them.


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## Warhawk (Oct 2, 2014)

As usual, the fanbase of 40k totally glosses over the positive religious aspects of the entire story, resulting in a never-ending feud between the worshipers of Chaos, and the adherents of "reason" which is a magnificent but distinctly limited human tool. I would take reason over Chaos any day, but there's far more to it than that...

Regardless, this is getting ridiculously off-topic. Not only are we showing our colors as ideologues but we're not even fighting over the ideology at stake anymore. Get back to brass tacks:

Do you support Polypsykana, or don't you? Do you think that humanity becoming completely psychic is good, or do you think it is bad? Is this really a black and white issue, considering we've had two responses to the effect that it should be embraced 'because' it is destructive, or that there is a third option?

I stick by my stance: Considering it an A or B question is a false dichotomy. There is no requirement that all of humanity change, nor is there any evidence that they all will. Perhaps the utilization of psykers could be different, but that is neither here nor there since we are talking about the fundamental destiny of the species in this universe. And this universe rather explicitly establishes that the more psychic species become, the more self-destructive they are. Better angsty teens who 'can't' summon daemons on the fly than those who can summon entire armies by accidental possession.


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## Doom wolf (Oct 10, 2014)

Back on topic, I point you to my first post.

In short, humanity could become an entire pysker species, but that's not a black and white issue. I think thta without the eye of terror, the phenomena could have been a good thing, but chaos messs it up and seems to speed the emergence of psyker population.

That doesn't make their integration a sweet process, and ultimately, it _could_ bring the humanity's doom (pun intended) because it's inability to master the transformation.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Reaper45 said:


> I've read plenty of the 40K books, and the horus heresy.
> 
> All of them make me root for anyone but the imperium, at least chaos is honest about what it is, unlike the imperium which lies constantly.


At least I can see where you are coming from. True the IOM is all about lies and such, but they are the "good guys" in this setting, I mean come on. The Ruinous Powers makes you evil sooner or later, even if you ain't evil to begin with. Just look at Abbaddon and Kharn. They were once noble Space Marines, now their sole good trait are their combat-prowess. And that's how each and everyone under the influence of the Ruinous Powers ends up. They themselves might not be evil, but sure as hell they do produce evil. Even the most deluded Chaos-worshippers IRL can't deny that.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Warhawk said:


> And this universe rather explicitly establishes that the more psychic species become, the more self-destructive they are. Better angsty teens who 'can't' summon daemons on the fly than those who can summon entire armies by accidental possession.


The philosophy, if I am not mistaken, is based on the assumption that mankind would become a pskyer race like the Eldar with their grasp of the Warp in control.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> Secondly 99% of the imperium treats their servants as slaves. The only difference between them and chaos is that chaos isn't lying to them.


All other issues aside, where are you getting this from? Chaos is only lies.


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## Warhawk (Oct 2, 2014)

Malus Darkblade said:


> The philosophy, if I am not mistaken, is based on the assumption that mankind would become a pskyer race like the Eldar with their grasp of the Warp *in control*.


It's too easy to point out the self-evident lie here: It's impossible to be "in control" of the Warp. Not even the Emperor was able to control it to such an extent that he was able to foresee the exact circumstances of his demise, let alone the betrayal staged against him, and so it's a false notion starting from the very top. 

Being able to light your sword on fire and twirl wraithbone around does not mean you dominate the Warp. In fact, wouldn't it mean the opposite? You become dependent upon that which is feeding off of you? Think of any limited resource used for fuel, like fossil fuels: You tap them, you build up massive civilizations... and it runs out. You were not its master; it had mastery over you, and the moment it is no longer available or under a semblance of "control" you are all but destroyed by it. 

Consider that the Emperor was probably relying on his psychic powers to divine the future, rather than speaking to and listening to his people/sons. We know how that ended.

The Eldar used their psychic powers to increase the power of their indulgences. We know how that ended, too.

Humans have had a chance to sit back and watch this occur. Why would it follow in these footsteps? Unless polypsykana can come up with 'damn' good reasons as to how it can truly be reined in, then I don't buy it. It makes no sense to do so.


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