# raptors, 5 man plausible?



## Lord Castellen (Jun 29, 2009)

im putting together a VERY budgeted sleenash list and atm i have 6 bikers in the list as my fast attack, but i think that raptors would be much better, and for slightly less money (using creative "borrowing" stradegies from my buddies chaos army:grin i can get 10 raptors, but i would want these in 2 squads, so would 2 squads of 5 raptors be potent enough to do anything? They would be full decked with 5 plasma pistols and the commanders would have either a power weapon or a power fist...or would it be a waste of the points and cash im paying for them? for a look at the list im thinking of go here http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=42783, thanx!


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## Thuellai (Jul 15, 2009)

Well, it depends. In a low-points game, Raptors in any number can put down some heavy hits, especially with PW. On the other hand, with plasma guns and such in the squad, some ablative Raptors would probably be better just to soak up hits and leave the heavy hitters in.


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## Lord Castellen (Jun 29, 2009)

grrrr...im really not sure what to do about it, i kinda am leaning with bikers atm, but i cant decide, i also think pink bikers are just more fun


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

Thats a little wierd, pink and bikers just don't mix. However nurgle bikers are toughness 6...Chazzing!


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

20 Raptors in 2 squads with the leader having lightning claws is great give them 2 meltaguns and your set Deepstrike them near a tank with troops in it pop it open possibly pin them and if not you will still strike first with your high Iniative with 7 men having 2 attacks standard and a leader with 3 power weapon attacks means 14 normal 3 power weapon attacks before they strike you.


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

Why would they strike first? Do you give them the MoS? Anyways I am also thinking of possibly running squads of 5 raptors, because it is a lot easier to deepstrike 5 raptors than 10. Also you can still take the special guns for the squad, perfect for a termi hunting squad or a LR/ tank hunter squad. Also this means that you have 10 raptors, perfect for playing eldar or tau, and when playing tyranids or orks this could tie up big squads or carnifexs for a few turns.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

5 Man is plausible, but not dependable as a CC unit. Still a good way to get 2 special weapons in, and that's what counts.


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

Yeah I know, that is one reason I would take a 5 man squad.


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## Lord Castellen (Jun 29, 2009)

special weapons are not what im after, i need them as a distraction/CC unit, they need to really be the crossfire to keep the low number of troops im running back and alive to cap objectives.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Never use a Marine unit as a distraction their to damn expensive for that especially raptors who cap out at 20pts each. If you dead set on CC support then give them two flamers, and a champ with LC that build should allow you to beat a tactical squad if you give them mark of Slaanesh otherwise almost any unit has a decent chance of beating back 5 marines unless you only use them to assist other units that have assaulted.


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## Lord Castellen (Jun 29, 2009)

ehhhhh, idk in this case i may just stick with my biker squads, should i trade out the MoS for a MoN? its not really on theme, but i think itll make them much better at filling a distraction role and will allow them to hold their own against squads of marines, or really anything for that matter, and light arms fire wont put a dent in them. (theyre 2 squads of 3 cuz thats all i can afford, PW or PF on the commander, and Meltas on the 2 support ones)


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## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

Sounds pretty good. For a light cc role though, the raptors with flamers look pretty good.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

xCr0okz- said:


> Why would they strike first? Do you give them the MoS? QUOTE]
> 
> Ahh yes that's the theme of his army


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

5 raptors with 2 meltas. Use them to bag transports and another unit (khorne berzerkers) to attack what climbs out.


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

In my 1700 pt Slaaneshi list I run a 6-man (slaaneshi...) squad with (20 meltaguns, champ w/ TLC & the IoS (can't give them marks *grumble*)... squad costs 200pts.

I try to use them as a utilitarian unit to pop transports & take out the guys inside, or to run up with my DP to add a little extra kick to the CC... Frankly, they're the most underperforming unit in my list & lately I've been trying to find something else to use in their place - but I LOVE the raptor model (not the top heavy-ness, just the predatory look of the model itself...)

The thing to remember about nurgle bikers is that their T6 wont help them against S8. Their still wounded on a 2+ & I believe their cost makes large squads prohibitive... a 5-man tactical squad may not be able to hurt them - until the seargant swings his big ol PF...

If you aren't sure about them - proxy a squad of marines for a couple of games..


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## Lord Castellen (Jun 29, 2009)

haha, well i know that S8 doesnt affect it if theres a mark on them, but thats the general idea, these are going to be light engagement and distraction units, cuz my list is REALLY light on troops...so i need the ones i have safe, this means that the heavy weapons need to either fire at the transports or the bikers, and the bikers being the first thing hitting their line would be my first choice to hit, and they can do a decent number to a squad of 10 marines, 2 meltas first leaves only 8, then i get 3 power fisties and 6 normal attacks, and that means i most likely have at least 2 kills, so thats 3-4 off the bat, and the normal attacks wont do anything, and the power fist only gets 2 shots off, one of which will miss, and then will prolly kill, meaning i still came out on top, although this is a little underperformed, would it be a good idea to combine my 2 three man squads to make a single 6 man squad with 2 meltas, cuz that would prolly rip through most squads...opinions there?


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

Instaed of having one distraction unit, I would recommend having a few fast moving units that can do damage. Like bikes and raptor moving up one side, and transports moving up the other and down the middle. This way your opponent would have to split his fire or try to kill one unit, but you would have so much else for him to worry about that whatever does get there will be able to do some damage or at least stall one of his units from shooting again.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Luke Valantine gets a medal for being some of the only reliably tested advice.

Chaos doesn't have FA choices, we have lash and zerks. They potentially 'move' faster than raptors(with 4d6 enemy movement however you want) and are better in combat than raptors.

And seriously why in the flying hell would you put plasma pistols in a raptor squad when meltas are so much better?

Raptors in five man squads with two meltas and an icon make a great shock unit that can cheaply, and reliably deep strike and nuke a vehicle worth twice their points, and with rerolling leadership nine, you'll probably not fall back. So the enemy has to wipe out every last jerk in the squad.

As a CC unit, raptors are only good for a single turn(the eighteen inch charge turn) and that's just due to movement. Bikes are horrendous.


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## GiftofChaos1234 (Jan 27, 2009)

well i like to use raptors in my list to help get my khorne lord into combat with his twin lightning claws and they have iok which helps a crap load. anyways they are good for getting fast moving hqs into combat if thats what your after


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## Lord Castellen (Jun 29, 2009)

not what im after, they really are just there to run diversions and pop a tank or 2, so you guys have something to run off of heres the list im running

HQ - 155 pts

Deamon Prince - 155 pts
Wings 
Lash of Submission 
Mark of Slaanesh 

Troops -950

Chaos Space Marines - 280 pts
Aspiring Champion - 45 pts
Power Sword 
2x Chaos Space Marines - 60 pts
2x Plasma Gun 
7x Chaos Space Marines - 125 pts
Icon of Slaanesh
Rhino - 50 pts
Extra Armor 

Noise Marines - 335 pts
Noise Champion - 75 pts
Power Fist
Doom Siren 
1x Noise Marine - 60 pts
Blast Master 
6x Noise Marine - 150 pts
6x Sonic Weapons 
Rhino - 50 pts
Extra Armor 

Noise Marines - 335 pts
Noise Champion - 75 pts
Power Fist 
Doom Siren 
1x Noise Marine - 60 pts
Blast Master
6x Noise Marine - 150 pts
6x Sonic Weapons
Rhino - 50 pts
Extra Armor 

Elites - 195 pts

Terminators - 195 pts
1x Terminator Champion - 40 pts
1x Terminator - 35 pts
Heavy Flamer 
1x Terminator 
2x Terminator - 90 pts
2x Chainfist 

Fast Attack - 298 pts

Biker Squad - 149 pts
Biker Champion - 63 pts
Power Weapon
2x Bikers - 86 pts
2x Meltagun

Biker Squad - 149 pts
Biker Champion - 63 pts
Power Weapon
2x Bikers - 86 pts
2x Meltagun 

Heavy Support - 150 pts

Obliterator Cult - 150 pts

Basic idea, this is an extremly budgeted list, i can get the entire thing for $325, which is why i like it, but for each unit, obliterators: obviously, deep striking anti tank support or anti infantry, what ever i really need. Bikers: Run diversion, not meant to be a heavy hitting unit, theyre meant to be dangerous enough to require shots fired at them and they need to be taken care of, but only really there to down a tank or 2 or rip through GEQ squads. Terminators: Basic premise is these guys are all around my back up, theyre deep striking, if i need a tank downed they have chainfists (also useful for assault as power fists), if i need MEQ kills then they have 9-12 power weapons going at I5. Noise Marines: Troops meant to be all around and helpful in most situations, obvious base for the army, captures objectives, i run both types of weapons in both squads because it makes them capable of holding their own anywhere, which is what i need, doom siren makes sure i can assault and win, and blastmaster insures i can hold an objective from any hard hitting opponents. Vanilla Marines: Only had money for 2 squads of noise marines..what can i say? haha only here to sit on an objective and hold it, plasmas are there to help deal with marines that come there way or if there forced into service to help out at the front. DP: Hes a deamon prince...his main goal is hes deep striking and causing mayhem, hes a forced target, im forcing my opponent to deal with him as opposed to other targets on the board, im hoping he will take 2 turns of concentrated fire and down a squad.
Main idea with the list, major disruption with cover fire coming from the noise marines, noise marines move to their position on objective and provide cover fire for the strafing bikers, the bikers will distract for the first 2-3 turns at which point my DP, terminators and oblits all start popping in on the field, these are all units that if not dealt with will fuck some shit up and so i have yet more distractions keeping my low number of troop choices protected and out of the main fray. im hoping that these 3 squads will be able to hold their ground until at least GT5 or 6, at which point if im holding the 3 objectives that im aiming at they will have no ability to counter move. 
This hasnt been play tested...but i think itll do alright, the point if fun though, which i think itll be a lot of!


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## LordProitzen (Jun 27, 2009)

I just want to put my two cents in here... I play a CSM Slaaneshi army. I play mine as a pretty much a mechanical anti infantry army. I believe from experience and various games I have watched, even though Slaanesh is 6's, Raptors should still be used in groups of 10. Use the Meltaguns, if not you should use the Flamers that way you're taking out hopefully more points than you purchased them for. 

I believe that you can USE them to soak up some damage but it would be a waste of using them. In my own opinion I just like Raptors more than Bikers because they are jump infantry and can do a lot of surprise attacks once on the field. So if you end up changing your mind about the bikers that you plan/have all ready purchased, keep in mind. Slaanesh has +1i which is useful if you can hop over a wall, busted rhino, or other terrain and assault into a squad holding an objective.  Just my two cents. I love raptors.


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