# Confessions of a 40k enthusiast... or a Cheeto Heresy



## cheeto (Apr 1, 2011)

You decide.

I enjoy reading 40k novels a lot. What I can't get into are the actual Heresy novels, which is strange considering how I gobbled up every tidbit of heresy short stories and references printed in White Dwarf over 20 years ago. Any reference to the primarchs was accompanied by the feeling of legend that I felt reading about references to the ancient elves when I read Tolkien. 

So after reading several 40k novels, I picked up the first of the heresy novels, Horus Rising. It was well written without a doubt. Also, without a doubt and probably even typical, my favorite character was Loken, the space marine who time and time again had to face his demons and overcome them. I enjoyed every aspect of the book except for Horus himself who, rather than being this legendary, monolithic great leader of man actually came across to me as being a bit of a douche. Maybe it was the great expectations built up in my mind over two decades, or maybe it was because the few times he was portrayed in the book I was reminded of the petty politicians that are in office in Washington... I don't know. It just seemed to me that for the Warnmaster of Man, Horus was found wanting, and this I say despite the genius that I think Abnett is.

False Gods again was a well written book in which I enjoyed all except for Horus, again, who came across to me as little more than a whiny bitch. Seems to me that heroes of the Imperium are pitted against and triumph against greater perils. Commissar Gaunt, in comparison, seems like a much greater, stronger character than Horus. 

Then I got to Galaxy in Flames. Horus is turned and thank god because I couldn't take anymore of his bitching. This was definitely my favorite of the three. One of my favorite parts happens when Angron strides past Loken to massacre an unlikely enemy in the final battle for that planet. There was something about that that totally befitted what I think of as a primarch. Power wrapped in mystery...

Maybe my expectations were too high, or maybe I'm not alone in this. By the end of book three, I simply found Horus wanting.

I was thinking of continuing again with First Heretic. There is just something about a primarchs beliefs being shattered by the emperor himself that just seems so much more realistic a scenario for the turning of a primarch to heresy. 

Soooo... Anyone else have a similar experience and would anyone care to vouch for the rest of the series? After about three other books, I think I will be taking the plunge again. Maybe with much lower expectations I will be pleasantly surprised. Maybe not. I always have the highest expectations with Abnett, and of all his books, I was only ever let down with Horus Rising, and in that primarily just Horus.

I wonder if I will be banned from these forums... :laugh:


----------



## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm not a big fan of the H series myself, there's nothing wrong with the books as far as i'm concerned but the fact that i already know the overlying story kinda kills the details for me. In fulgrim for example i knew full well that he would be corrupted through the coarse of the book and as soon as they came across the item that caused it i knew that detail. It took the suspese away for me and as soon as these events unfolded and the rmeemberancers were changing i could more or less guess at the coarse of the rest of the book, not a good thing in a book as far as i am concerned. 
If i'm honest i can't remember what happens in each book or even what order the HH books are in. I find it hard to empathise with the protagonists, it's actually something i've noticed with a lot of the other marine based books, the grey knights trillogy and the ultramarine novels just seem to not be able to grip me as well as the Gaunts ghost books or even the Ciaphus Caine novels. The only exception is the space wolf book which i absolutely loved.

All things considered if i had the choice of reading another HH book or something different like a last chancers novel or Kal Jericho i would probabley choose the latter.


----------



## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

I think prior knowledge does spoil it a little bit, i try and look at the details i didnt know and revel in them rather than abandoning myself to the fact that i know in the end this this and this will happen. I personally though fulgrim was perfection, that gradual corruption that overtook the very souls of a legion, even to the creation and destructive impact of sonic weapons.

My own problem with heresy novels and the thing that made my flatmate go spare is they may embellish the story but they dont always advance it. The dark angels book for example. or prospero burns.

I love the heresy series, i think its some of the best writing in the 4ok universe and i can only appreciate that.


----------



## cheeto (Apr 1, 2011)

I can see how knowing the end can spoil the story for some. That was never really an issue for me. I still wanted to read about how it was, who these great figures were, what made them do what they did. I still wanted to experience the single greatest betrayal in the 40k universe for myself. I just found Horus to be so completely wanting that his very character robbed the whole era of it's mystique for me. More than that, rather than a godlike figure, warmaster primarch of the Imperium who led fellow primarchs, some of whom ascended to daemon princes of the warp, I just thought Horus came across as a whiny bitch. I'm hoping that First Heretic gets it back for me, because I am still in love with the event and wanting to read about it.

In comparison, I feel that Abnett did an amazing job of making titans feel like god machines both in Titanicus and in the battle scene found in The Armor of Contempt. I think readers are supposed to be in awe of the god machines of the 40k universe, and in both of these encounters, I was. That's how I want to see the primarchs. Bah... maybe next time...


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Whilst the First Heretic is a good book, and alot of peoples favourites, not for me personally, Lorgar is possibly even more of a whiny bitch than Horus is imo.


----------



## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

What AoB said--_The First Heretic_ is hardly the book you want to be reading if you want to read about a self-confident, utterly competent Primarch. As a whole, the Primarchs are whining, angsty characters--Magnus, Lorgar, Horus, Fulgrim, and Lion El'Jonson are all self-indulgent pricks, to some degree. Only Russ has really gotten to grips with who he is and what role he has in things.

Then again, it would be difficult to write a compelling Heresy series with eighteen characters that basically have Havelock Vetinari's mind and Conan the Barbarian's body. Plus, well, the Heresy team has to work along the same lines as--and justify--everything that's been built up about the Heresy over the past 5 editions.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I would suggest picking up Legion however. Apart from being imo the best book of the series, Alpharius is really shown in a new and better light. He's certainly not one of the bitching and moaning Primarchs. Like Mossy Toes said though, Russ is certainly the most self-confident and sure Primarch so far, although Dorn is also shaping up quite well in his various cameo appearences and small parts across the books.


----------



## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

I also found the Primarch's to be a bit -- unstable. Though as I continue to read the novels, seomthings comes to my mind. I have not been a staunch Warhammer fluff-fiend for twenty years such as yourself, the tid-bit information in White Dwarf, the small passages here and there in books that are now only PoD I have not read.

The only thing I can go off of is Lexicanum, all the current HH books (some excluded), and the other Warhammer 40k books I've read (a lot, but no where near the complete collection). My whole mindset is that the Imperium is a lie. The Primarchs are always displayed as these superhuman beings who rise above every challange and conquor every foe. Their are staunch beyond reason, they are stoic in their loyalty to the Emperor, ect, ect.

The HH Novels show us that the victors truly do write the history books. Lion El'Jonson for example, does not seem overly loyal to his father, while to me Fulgrim looked a hell of a lot more loyal to the Emperor. Lorgar was more of a whiny bitch than I ever believed considering the uber-domination syndrom the Chaos Word Bearers seem to have. Hell, even Angron I now understand more -- why he did what he did. Rather than just beleive him some simple barbarian who wanted blood constantly.

To me, the Horus Heresy is actually pulling back the veil of myth and misunderstanding, of lies and propaganda. The Primarch's suffered the same trivial human emotions as the rest of us. While this diminishes them in my eyes somewhat, it also elevates them. I can actually connect with them and understand why they fell to Chaos.


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Agree with the above posts for the most part. TFH was not so bad really as we all knew from the get go that Lorgar would have a whinge at some point. :laugh: 

I definitely recommend Legion. 

Also like to add that I am looking forward to Sang being featured, probably in about ten years time at current pace. :scratchhead:


----------



## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Nah nah, James Swallow's writing Fear to Tread about Signus Prime right now.

Though that's a good point, BlackGuard: Angron, too, is very...self-assured.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

BlackGuard said:


> Lion El'Jonson for example, does not seem overly loyal to his father


Please don't make me go into yet another one of my 'Lion is a loyalist' rants. The Horus Heresy has done nothing but utterly prove he is loyal.


----------



## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Fallen Angels, Savage Scars--those stories pretty much unequivocally prove that the Lion is a loyalist. I mean, at the end of Fallen Angels, 

he says "So perish all traitors" while obliterating a couple hundred Sons of Horus.


----------



## cheeto (Apr 1, 2011)

How is the imperium a lie? If you answer that it's little more than a bunch is jackasses on Terra manipulating it for personal power, then I would agree. But the emperor still did launch a massive crusade that resulted in the acquisition of millions of worlds, and the space marines led by their primarchs were the sharp end of that spear. I realize that 18 primarchs will likely have 18 differing personalities. I just have a hard time buying into the idea that the one thing the majority of them would have in common would be whiny bitchy attitudes. That's my problem with this.


----------

