# Matt Ward. Zero to hero?



## HatingYou (Oct 10, 2010)

Hey guys

For those of you who own or have seen the new GK codex do you think Ward has redeemed himself with the new codex?

Do you think the new codex is crap? or good/amazing/awesome/sexy?

Do you think he has done better with thi codex than BA?

I personally think he done quite a good job.

He hasn't fucked it up thankfully, nothing is too stupid (for GK)
some things for fluff like draigo could of been better but I think even the short story given for that was quite epic.

Just some of my thoughts

So what do you think guys?


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Let me put it this way.

May his eyes be rip out from his skull, his hands chop off and his tongue removed. So we never have to read one of his "Books" agien.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Sorry dude but I still hate the guy. I like some of the uniqueness of the GK and kept them from using conventional heavy weaponry since they are not a tankbusting force but giving them Assault cannons on crack was certainly a bad error on his part. 

Although Robin Cruddace still has my vote as worst Codex writer.


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## HatingYou (Oct 10, 2010)

No need to apologise lol

I was never a fan of him but I think he done a good job on it.

AC on crack? considering what other codexes can put on the table that's fine with me

I would rather the guy who done the DE book done it cus I thought that was really good.

I think he has done a pretty good job with this codex and I think people shouldn't rape his face for it.

just rape him for allying necs and BA lol

Edit: His real error was making Psycannons spammable


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Its not the fact they are assault cannons on crack that bothers me (OK it does a little but GK should have very little in the way of anti AV14 since there is not daemon with it.) but rather the volume that said weapon can be taken with. 4 in a purgation squad mirk more than any other devvie style squad.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

From zero to 40k's poo pipe more like it.

I could do the races of 40k more respect than this guy, even when he thinks he's making them better.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

I never had a problem with any one writer from GW, as the entire game development staff gets credit for the new codices so I can't place blame at the feet of one writer.

I like the Gk codex, it has a couple of builds that can be fun and competitive, lots of FOC switching, and it can be used as a "count as" list for a good amount of armies.

Personally I would like to see more codices be like the new GK dex. Fluff seems to be solid overall (you can pick things out here and there but you can do that with any codex), rules are pretty solid, and there aren't any units (that I can see) that are just outright bad.

I give my thumbs up the the dev team for this codex :so_happy:


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## Rathios1337 (Jul 2, 2010)

its just that you can have 12 in a purifiers list 1500pts :shok:


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Nah. Just another ultramarine book but with silver armour.

The guy writes books as if he's a child. Tries to cram in every shiny thing he can.

These shiny things tend to come in the form of overly powerful characters with ridiculous fluff........


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## StalkerZero (Oct 3, 2010)

I don't think you'll find many people who really love the Grey Knights new book (especially a lot of the lore) but....

I think this thread should be sticked and all Matt Ward posts moved to here.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Nobody has a problem with his 40K Rules, just his Fantasy ones.

The fluff though is fucking horrendous.

And for me, Phil Kelly can write the fluff - I loved what he did with Fantasy. I like some of the decisions that are made with the GK's. But that's purely because I'll be using them myself. The asshattery is already occuring; and I've won the 6 games I've played with them so far against all comers, and tournament designed lists so far, against fairly decent players as well, without too much outrageous luck.

Thing is - as far as I'm concerned, he's as bad as Adam Troke.

Adam Trokes - elves is fast and stuff, and faster and faster and stuff, but really good looking and graceful and stuff, and fast and stuff, let's make them ASF across the board (the equivalent of I11).

Mat Ward - Grey Knights suddenly forget how to use their psychic powers as they go up in rank, Purifiers are purer than the purest in the Imperium, but even they're not pure enough so need Crowe, Grand Masters mind controlling their subordinates... The shit goes on...

What I do hate is the Grey Knights are the best this, the best that the completely infallible, the blah blah. I hate that.

I also like the fact that they're less of the Malleus bumboys, and more of the go to Chapter; similar to how the Minotaurs, Exorcists and Carcharadons are; 3 more of my favourite Chapters.


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

It's not the super-powerful weapons that bother me; the GK are a small specialist force and should have a few equalizers against hordes and mech lists. It's the way he writes the races with such fanboy zeal that gets under my skin. It's like he's engaged in a heated cockswinging contest with the last codex he wrote.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

I fear that by the time GW catches on and gives him the boot, 40k will have already turned into the game of "My retards out retard your own retarded people."


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

C'Tan Chimera said:


> I fear that by the time GW catches on and gives him the boot, 40k will have already turned into the game of "My retards out retard your own retarded people."


Because it's not that already? :laugh:

The eldar have weapons that fire shurikens (which are crafted in the gun then fired) and stones that can trap souls, the DE have boxes that can trap black holes, Space marines are 8ft tall super humans that have access to weapons that cause a controlled subatomic reaction in a target (WTF!!) and swords that generate fields that disrupts solid matter, Necrons have weapons that strip away flesh layer by layer (so you can watch) with a single shot, and the tau have army wide issued rail guns and pulse weapons.

40k was always about fantastic races with insane technology. They've always had some stupid tech that is just crazy. The current dev team didn't implement that in 5th edition.


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## Supersonic Banana (Jul 23, 2010)

its a fan-boy dex that GW has decided to put into print to keep him happy


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Wusword77 said:


> Because it's not that already? :laugh:
> 
> The eldar have weapons that fire shurikens (which are crafted in the gun then fired) and stones that can trap souls, the DE have boxes that can trap black holes, Space marines are 8ft tall super humans that have access to weapons that cause a controlled subatomic reaction in a target (WTF!!), Necrons have weapons that strip away flesh layer by layer, and the tau have army wide issued rail guns and pulse weapons.


In that sense, you are indeed right- I'm referring to actually on the tabletop. Usually they're divided into "Retardedly dumb" or "retardedly overpowered" , but with Ward on the scene it might be possible that we will see a time where they are all retardedly overpowered at once.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Eh he still beats gav thrope.......


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

C'Tan Chimera said:


> In that sense, you are indeed right- I'm referring to actually on the tabletop. Usually they're divided into "Retardedly dumb" or "retardedly overpowered" , but with Ward on the scene it might be possible that we will see a time where they are all retardedly overpowered at once.


But if everyone is overpowered, isn't the game balanced?

You can only have an "overpowered" codex if you have an 'underpowered" or average codex as well. If every codex is "overpowered" then no codices would be underpowered and thus all become average.

And if every codex is average they're balanced.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Wusword77 said:


> But if everyone is overpowered, isn't the game balanced?
> 
> You can only have an "overpowered" codex if you have an 'underpowered" or average codex as well. If every codex is "overpowered" then no codices would be underpowered and thus all become average.
> 
> And if every codex is average they're balanced.


Ah, touche. You got me there. I guess then it reverts right back to the game just becoming more and more silly.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Wusword77 said:


> But if everyone is overpowered, isn't the game balanced?
> 
> You can only have an "overpowered" codex if you have an 'underpowered" or average codex as well. If every codex is "overpowered" then no codices would be underpowered and thus all become average.
> 
> And if every codex is average they're balanced.





C'Tan Chimera said:


> Ah, touche. You got me there. I guess then it reverts right back to the game just becoming more and more silly.


Yeah he got ya dead bang there. I think him and Phil are good at rules, unfortunatly Matt is horrible at Fluff. I love the current trend of 5th edition Dexes and cant wait for CSM turn.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Wusword77 said:


> But if everyone is overpowered, isn't the game balanced?
> 
> You can only have an "overpowered" codex if you have an 'underpowered" or average codex as well. If every codex is "overpowered" then no codices would be underpowered and thus all become average.
> 
> And if every codex is average they're balanced.


that's very true but the thing is a S5 AP1, Assault *25* Pistol is not in any way balance and l can see the pain coming from here.

also don't you guys love S3 4D6 pen roll with rending (even if you get a bad roll of 4, 3's you still get a total of 15 which can pen every tank)


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

i havent seen a major review of the codex yet, and im too lazy to buy the dex now, but in general i have very few problems with his table-top portion of the game (vindicare assassin may jump the shark a bit though ), the fluff hes mediocre at best.

why doesnt GW just have him and Phil Kelly both work on the codexs?


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

sybarite said:


> that's very true but the thing is a S5 AP1, Assault *25* Pistol is not in any way balance and l can see the pain coming from here.


Somehow I don't think we'll actually be seeing anything like that down the road, but thats just me. 

With the same regard, the game wouldn't be any fun if all the weapons were S1 AP- Heavy 1 either. 

Considering that bolt guns haven't changed in several editions I think we're going to be ok.



> also don't you guys love S3 4D6 pen roll with rending (even if you get a bad roll of 4, 3's you still get a total of 15 which can pen every tank)


Its great except when it's on a single model unit with out IC that needs to be within 36in of it's target, takes an elite slot, costs 145 points, only has a 4++ save, and is only t4.

When you add in those points it goes from being great to just good/ok.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Wusword77 said:


> Somehow I don't think we'll actually be seeing anything like that down the road, but thats just me.
> 
> With the same regard, the game wouldn't be any fun if all the weapons were S1 AP- Heavy 1 either.


http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=86017

the army list above can do it with ease.

also with the the sniper you put him in a tank and pop out each turn .


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

sybarite said:


> http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=86017
> 
> the army list above can do it with ease.
> 
> also with the the sniper you put him in a tank and pop out each turn .


How is the Culexus who does not have stealth, scout, infiltrate, IC status, etc supposed to make it to within 12'' of an equally skilled opponent WITH all of the psykers surrounding him. Put him in an empty chimera? At 2000 points (since you linked a 2k list), I think destroying a a single AV12 chassis is going to be quite easy with many different tournament armies such as mech IG, razor/longfang spam wolves, razorspam BA, etc. The ONLY lists I see this being super dangerous against are terminator themed armies since anything else that fields masses of infantry and little tanks are usually horde style. Frankly, it simply sounds like its bark is worse than its bite.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Hurricane said:


> The ONLY lists I see this being super dangerous against are terminator themed armies since anything else that fields masses of infantry and little tanks are usually horde style. Frankly, it simply sounds like its bark is worse than its bite.


although l am effiy on the player part l do see you point about mass infantry armies. even if l was able to get that many shots killing the whole unit of 10 IG or say 10 Orks. It would still get the same thing from the rest of my unit and then they will be open next turn.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

sybarite said:


> http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=86017
> 
> the army list above can do it with ease.
> 
> also with the the sniper you put him in a tank and pop out each turn .


The linked list could do it, but you make the whole list based around a single unit with low survivability. I would gladly face off against that.

And putting the sniper in a transport is a fantastic idea, except it raises his cost to around 200, for an individual unit that isn't a HQ. For around that price you can field storm raven.

The assassins look really cool but they aren't an over powered unit by any means. Unless you look at what they can do in a vacuum, where they will be in the best possible position to do damage but any unit looks good in that position.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

sybarite said:


> http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=86017
> 
> the army list above can do it with ease.
> 
> also with the the sniper you put him in a tank and pop out each turn .


Hey I wrote that list in question. The Culexus would be an amusing sideshow but not actually good. There's a big difference. 

I'm getting the miniatures together now and I shall be refining what I will be calling 'Coteaz's Carnival'. And even amongst the sideshow freaks I'll be using the Culexus will never make the grade.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

sybarite said:


> that's very true but the thing is a S5 AP1, Assault *25* Pistol is not in any way balance and l can see the pain coming from here.


365pts for that though, with a further 220pts for Transport, and that they have to stay within 12" of the Assassin, and getting a Perils will see the squad halved.

A Vindicare is often much more useful competitively unless you know you're facing massed non-mech MEQ's.



> also don't you guys love S3 4D6 pen roll with rending (even if you get a bad roll of 4, 3's you still get a total of 15 which can pen every tank)


That I feel is a bit retarded. But still, it has no use versus Hordes, and will be focused on very early on 2 Wounds and a 4+/4++/6+ FNP won't save them against just a standard set of firepower at 36" inches. It's heavy, so set up your vehicles at 37" range, then, move forward, and blat away.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

The Vindicare will have a 3+ Cover save as well, maybe 2+ with a Techmarine. Vindicares are good.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Good point. But then again, it's not as though Terminators don't die to massed Fire.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Zero to Hero?
Sure, if your 10-years-old. :laugh:

40k is slowly becoming a game with uber characters and special rules that make things stupidly powerful, and fluff is getting destroyed.
Matt Ward is a significant contributer to my recent dislike towards 40k.
I miss the days of 3rd ed. 

New characters/rules/vehicles/powers/etc have caused my interest in 40k to drop, and start looking into other games instead.
GW should have just kept things simple. Not only is it more fun, but it is easier to balance.

Just look at Kings of War. The rulebook is only 12 pages, the codices are only 1 page, and the game is a hell of a lot more fun and tactfully involved than 40k is, and (almost) perfectly balanced.

Now its all just cramming in characters with stupid stats and special rules/powers, and shooting/punching till your opponent dies.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Definitely no hero, but he`s done worse. 

I`ll reserve my judgement for a codex he writes that I actually care about. 

When necrons are released, I`ll revive this thread with my answer.


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

Oh, \god, if he does the cron dex...



> "The Necrons are the all-powerful children of the super-pwnage star gods who kick serious ass but went into hiding because the Emperor and his Ultramarines (and the other SM chapters) were becoming too powerful and uber-pwnage. However, they sometimes manifest in stupidly-over-powered Independant Characters that pwn everything on the board so you wonder why they just don't attack planets themselves.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

There's a "o" button situated next to the "p" on your keyboard. If you absolutely have to use the word "own", spell it right.


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## Akhara'Keth (Nov 20, 2010)

Made my (early) day! :goodpost:


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Captain Galus said:


> It's like he's engaged in a heated cockswinging contest with the last codex he wrote.


That is going to result in some _Epic_ paper cuts.



Vaz said:


> What I do hate is the Grey Knights are the best this, the best that the completely infallible, the blah blah. I hate that.


I think you hit on a real problem with Mr. Ward's authorship. To quote the first _Hellboy_ film, " . . . we like people for their qualities but we love them for their defects." In many cases its the failures and the idiosyncrasies that endear us to the background and our armies. The tragic nature of the Blood Angels (despite its more Emo undertones) makes them compelling. Likewise, with the Space Wolves and the curse of the Wulfen. Eldar doomed race. Etc. Chaos Marines. Period.



Wusword77 said:


> But if everyone is overpowered, isn't the game balanced?
> 
> You can only have an "overpowered" codex if you have an 'underpowered" or average codex as well. If every codex is "overpowered" then no codices would be underpowered and thus all become average.
> 
> And if every codex is average they're balanced.


True, in your example things may be balanced but that doesn't mean the game is satisfying to play. For instance, a game of all AP 1 weapons would result in a lot of obliteration, and very little action. People would still win and lose, but the process of doing so when the deadliness of the rules are out of proportion to the units, would be much less fun. The same is equally true of the Strangelovian "Special Rules Gap" that GW are developing. Of course, I don't know how much is intentional, and how much is just the natural process of updating codices, but there is a gap none the less.


Food for thought.

Cheers,
Kreuger


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## HatingYou (Oct 10, 2010)

Reading the fluff in the codex...it's not too bad I suppose it is really "the finest warriors" this "only the grey knights" that but overall I'm happy that GK arn't siding with chaos and necrons lol

Everyone is complaining about new spec characters withbig rules and wishing to go back to whatever edition they liked.

Well there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Ward is here to stay I feel and even if he goes the damage is done and the game has been changed for good I think.

I asked what people thought of the codex

Some just went straight the to OP henchmen arguement lol

others bombed the fluff (it's matt ward) I was soo happy that it turned out ok and no a shambles so I'll defend him more than most I think.

would rather have someone else write it but meh take what you can get.

Onething I will say about him though....he is going to rape necrons

that is all


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Vaz said:


> There's a "o" button situated next to the "p" on your keyboard. If you absolutely have to use the word "own", spell it right.


Bothering to spell a term originally taken up by hackers correctly is hardly a worthy endeavor, I'd think. As long as the rest of it is well-written, it doesn't matter. Points for humor though. 

As for the actual topic, I don't mind the rules, I like models with cool rules, it makes the game much more interesting, but what I don't like is the reduction of conflict in fluff. A great hero is a great hero because they triumph *against* the odds, not because they rip people apart with their abnormally large cock. There's a reason we like it when an underdog wins, it's because their win means more than someone who is already practically guaranteed to secure that win.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> Eh he still beats gav thrope.......


Word.

Add Alessio Cavatore to that list too......


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Sometimes I wonder if Wardy, Thorpe or Cavatore read any of this.

Maybe take a hint?

Online Petition to get Wardy booted anyone?


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

I'm in.

I didn't really notice Ward's horribility (is that even a word?) until I read a few threads. Then I went back and read a few of my codices and went 'crap'.

Edit: As in, I said 'crap' not 'went' 'crap'.


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## SuperNovice (Mar 20, 2009)

HatingYou said:


> For those of you who own or have seen the new GK codex do you think Ward has redeemed himself with the new codex?


No, he hasn't even started to redeem himself IMO. 

I have some concerns about the actual balance of the list but I haven't gotten to play many games against GK yet so I'll withhold judgment on that portion. However, I have to second everyone's opinion on his writing/fluff. I feel like I'm reading the fantasy of a bullied kid who daydreams of being invincible. :angry:




Wusword77 said:


> But if everyone is overpowered, isn't the game balanced?
> 
> You can only have an "overpowered" codex if you have an 'underpowered" or average codex as well. If every codex is "overpowered" then no codices would be underpowered and thus all become average.


Ummm...I don't think I agree with this statement. At least I don't agree with what I think is the sentiment behind it. People complain about overpowered lists because they feel that it takes the fun out of the game by drastically reducing the effect of one player's decisions. In essence, one list is so much stronger that nothing the losing player does will win him the game. 

Likewise, players of underpowered lists feel that, even when they make the correct decisions, they still need to be lucky to win. In essence, they cannot outplay their opponent. 

You could argue that two lists that always win on the first turn are balanced against each other but that does not make them well designed or fair lists. It just means both lists are poor designed and "unfun".

Of course...I might be misreading your post entirely in which case, ignore everything I just said. :laugh:


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