# Oh my god, you're using flayed ones...



## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

These guys always seem to get a bum wrap from most necron players and even I have not been overly impressed with them, until now.

With the advent of 5th ed I believe that flayed ones now offer a necron player a cost efficient MEQ cc unit. My insane logic is as follows.

*Initiative*
These guys are near the top of the necron initiative ladder and are on par with a MEQ. Considering that the bulk of the necron army's initiative is really I2, these guys are a godsend. The ability to strike at the same time as a MEQ means that we can give out some pain and not have to be worried if there will still be models left standing after being belted first by the enemy cc unit. 

As necron players, with low initiative models, we need to capitalise on this asset. All too many times I have seen and used warriors to fill the cc task and perform at a mediocre level, even with a lord in support. Despite the good strength and toughness stats it is always the low initiative that gets us and usually will end up in a sweep with the demise of the entire squad. With the hard core cc rules in 5th ed even the high leadership we have means nothing if we lose by 4+ models in a round of combat. Followed up by low initiative will see a lot more sweeping advances against us.

*Attacks*
The flayed ones have twice the amount of attacks of a standard MEQ. This is one of their strengths. Even when receiving a charge from a std squad, having 2 attacks, on average, from each model evens out the field. If the flayed ones get the charge in then look out, its just like a scarab swarm with better stats all round, apart from wounds.

*Strength and Toughness* 
These 2 stats are paramount to the combat efficiency of the flayed ones. Being already of a quality MEQ gives the flayed ones excellent chances to wound MEQ's on a 50% average. Weaker armies shall cop it even worse. The toughness stat is higher then average and gives the flayed ones a good chance of not taking a wound on S3 or less hits. Following up with the wbb roll if we fail a save, gives us the longevity to ensure that we will keep coming back.

*Abilities and Wargear*
The "terrifying visage" ability is awesome. Against low leadership models it can make them struggle to be combat effective against the flayed ones. Combined with being fearless models this only enhances their comabt effectiveness, no more sweeping advances.

Sorry guys, error on my behalf or just wishfull thinking. Flayed ones are *not* fearless, just mindless...

*Tactics*
With the new 5th ed rules, infiltrators offer a new aspect to the game. I would only be to happy to keep my squad of flayed ones in reserve so that I have a chance to flank my opponent mid way through the game. All depending on initial deployment and movement of the enemy during the first 2/3 turns could prove very advantageous for a infiltrating unit of flayed ones. Deep striking is also an option if you like that kind of thing, but be aware that you will cop some fire until you manage to get into cc and the gods of deep striking dice are a fickle lot.

The ability to run makes flayed ones much more maneuverable. Having no ranged weapons means we can take advantage of this new rule and close the distance between us and the enemy in a shorter amount of time, getting us into cc where we can show the enemy what pain really is and obviously avoiding extra turns of receiving enemy fire.

All of the above sounds fantastic but what good is a unit without an anti-hero in it to lead it forward on its unholy quest to harvest the souls of the galaxy ? This is where the necron lord now steps in. A lord with res orb, phase shifter, gaze of flame and lightning field will compliment a unit of flayed ones perfectly. He can be held in reserve as an attached IC to the unit and infiltrate with them when the time is right. 

Of course a warscythe is standard fare for the lord as he will be running with the flayed ones to get into cc as soon as possible so a staff of light would not really work with the theme we are setting here. Combined with a res orb to back up the flayed ones makes them laugh in the face of power weapon wielding enemies. 

I was wondering whether to include a res orb/veil option but decided against it as if you are infiltrating you shouldn't need the veil to augment your movement, plus it takes away from the idea of the dedicated cc squad I am trying to portray. The other wargear mentioned above will suit the lord in this roll much better as a veil is really for hit and run tactics.

Hopefully this thread can start something new for the flayed ones. I myself am looking forward to fielding a unit with the above mentioned gear and believe they will be a force that will take the enemy by surprise. With all that said there is really only one more thing to say

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Flayed Ones (or in my case, the Goth-Cult) are too cool to leave behind.


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

I've been really hesitant to use Flayed Ones, at least in 4th, but the new CC rules in 5th combined with run are definitely interesting. 

I've considered a different lord running with them though. Think, Gaze of flame, Lightning Field, Res Orb and Nightmare Shroud.

The shroud affects all units w/in 12" of the lord during shooting phase. Move units towards a pack of units, use the shroud and assault into the one that failed.

I generally don't take the warscythe though. The 3 S5 AP3 hits are pretty valuable and it still counts as a power weapon. For the 10 extra points this, IMO, makes the warscythe a waste in most cases (exception being Terminators, and then you don't want to be in CC anyway) 



BTW: Flayed Ones are *not* fearless.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

flayed ones don't se to fit in with the necron codex a combat unit in a shooting army doesn't make sense. My friend uses them but never had and never will I much rather have immortals or pariahs.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Deepstriking units in the middle of enemy armies is a more valid tactic now with the improved DS rules. DS a couple of 10 strong squads to sow havoc while the rest advance.


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## hurt-wm (Jun 8, 2008)

How are the deepstrike rules improved?


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## squadiee (Nov 4, 2007)

Pariahs are arguably the worst unit in the game (points to effectiveness wise, sure they ignore inv and armour saves, but they strike after almost every other CC orientated unit and cant WBB)

The Flayed One are a good choice to use, though I think a staff of light would be just as good as a warscythe on the Lord as it gives the squad some ranged capability as well as heavy armour killing power


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Lord Sinkoran said:


> flayed ones don't se to fit in with the necron codex a combat unit in a shooting army doesn't make sense. My friend uses them but never had and never will I much rather have immortals or pariahs.


Well, you would be surprised how much of the Necron Codex is supposed to be geared for CC. We have CC units, they just don't really do it well. I don't know if that is because we are using a 3rd Edition Codex or if they just didn't live up to expectation, but about 1/2 of our codex is CC oriented (2 C'Tan, Lord, Flayed Ones, Pariah, Wraiths, Scarabs and Tomb Spyders). The reason you think they don't really fit is because the CC options we have are so bad, nobody uses them and all the armies you have seen are geared towards shooting.



hurt-wm said:


> How are the deepstrike rules improved?


Mostly through the Deep Strike Mishap Table. Now you only lose your troops 1/3 of the time instead of all the time. (1/3 enemy places them, 1/3 they delay)


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Most armies have diversity in their unit choices. Whilst the necrons would appear to be certainly set up as a shooty type force they do have cc options within their list. The task is really how/when to use them and more importantly how to support them in this role.

I just wanted this thread to high light, IMO, what I thought was a damn fine MEQ unit that with the new 5th ed rules has actually got some potential to be quite devastating if used correctly.

Not every army has kick ass options for both shooty and cc units, usually. It is this diversity that makes the game what it is or else we would all be playing the one race and how boring would that be...

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

I'd like flayed-ones better without all the skin drooping off them!!!!!:scare:


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## shas'o7 (May 17, 2008)

Flayed ones are good in 5th, but I still would feel that they're not worth the points over more Warriors, Immortals, or an extra lord upgrade


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

I have been meaning to mention that I have overlooked the fact that an IC joining a unit with a universal rule will cause the unit to lose the rule, so no infiltrating with the flayed ones for the lord. That is ok as I can deep strike him close by if needed, provided I get the reserve roll ok :biggrin:

Even still, the flayed ones were not assumed a first turn assault when this idea was being designed so that gives me time to get my "flayed lord" onto the field to support them. Or they do not have to infiltrate and I can lith port them if req'd.

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

If your Lord joins Pariahs or Scarabs though he gains 'fearless' - nice tactic


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Yes and this will see the versions of the "scarab lord" we have been discussing kick some butt when it comes to cc and combat resolution. BTW on the weekend I hd started to put together and paint my 6 flayed ones ready for a game on Sunday but only managed to get some painting done. Highlighting and bases to do still so I may have a game on next weekend to test out my flayed lord theory.

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## GMMStudios (Apr 1, 2008)

Flayed ones are still overpriced, dont get enough attacks, and going at the same time as a MEQ is not a godend its mediocre.

Id just shoot the hell out of them with Necrons, dont worry about assault, play keep away.


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Considering that they have one of the highest initiative values in the necron army I would still use them. Too be able to attack at the same time as a MEQ is much preferred to attacking after them. As for them being over priced, they are the same cost as a basic warrior but have more attacks and better initiative. IMO these offsets make the price quite fine in comparison with a basic warrior. 

Their role is obviously cc focused and with the new run and infiltrate rules in 5th will get these guys in quicker and allow them to have a much better impact especially when combined with a "flayed" lord kitted up with the appropriate war gear to support them.

The way most games go, even with 4th ed, close combat is unavoidable. With 5th ed now the combats are quite brutal and devastating to the losing side especially if the wound difference is 4+. Even with a high leadership value we will see a lot more sweeping advances. Necrons have always had flayed ones take a back seat when it came to army composition, I believe that now this will change.

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## GMMStudios (Apr 1, 2008)

The problem is that they really wont kill much. They are too expensive for a tarpit too.

Just take scarabs if you are really worried about assaults. They are the Kroot of Necron.


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

GMMStudios said:


> The problem is that they really wont kill much. They are too expensive for a tarpit too.
> 
> Just take scarabs if you are really worried about assaults. They are the Kroot of Necron.


The cost of a scarab with d/fields is only 2 pts less the cost of the std flayed one. From a tarpit point of view this results in say 20 pts comparing a full squad to squad basis. Not many pts there really, considering you can only get 1 warrior with change. Considering the tarpit, stats v's stats, the flayed ones are much more resilient with the better armour save and stat lines, especially initiative. Too bad they cannot turbo boost :biggrin:

Have you used these guys before ? If so please let me know how they performed either way. Any knowledge shared makes us all stronger.

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## Cindare (Jun 15, 2008)

Just thought I'd point out that Flayed Ones cost the same as Warriors at 18 points each and have A2, just like a Warrior with Rapid Shot.

The reason to pick up Flayed Ones (aside from the freak show aspect of some of the most yucky looking models in the game) is for its mobility. Move Through Cover makes assaulting into cover a breeze, and as Infiltrators they can capture cover on turn one. Terrifying Visage can be devastating against low Leadership armies (lol Orks).

Lack of ranged options make Flayed Ones iffy, and lack of speed (Scarab Swarms) means that they may not see combat at all. If that can be changed or otherwise dealt with via Deep Strike or portal then these guys may be worth their weight in gold.

It definitely seems like a craps shoot, though.


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## GMMStudios (Apr 1, 2008)

I havent but I have seen them used several times and I can just tell by looking at them on paper. I can also just tell by looking at stats and theoryhammering it they arent good, even if I hadnt seen them.

Wound for wound scarabs are 4 pts per wound to 18 for a flayed one. Scarabs cant be broken (I think flayed ones can) so for a tarpit they are much much better. They also get three attacks at that 12 points. Not that either unit is really going to kill anything.

Also scarabs are much faster and from range have a 3+ cover save vs. 3+ armor. Lets face it, you may have to turbo boost to get it but how many times can you turbo before you are in HTH anyway.

Also I wouldnt give them the d. fields. Keep them cheap. take a couple three of the 80 point units and you are good.


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## Cindare (Jun 15, 2008)

Disruption Fields aught to be used in a Scarab unit attached to a CC Destroyer Lord if and only if you intend to be a tankbuster unit. Otherwise yes, use the points for something else.


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Well finally I have finished my six flayed ones and the disruptor field effect on the claws/knives looks wicked. My son said that even the scabs on their heads look great. Will endeavour to game on this Thursday night at my local gw. Wish me luck guys and I'll fill you in on the action via a battle rep.

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Well I did it, finally got a game with my flayed ones. They started in reserve and came on turn 2 with a good reserve roll and infiltrated. Rolled for the edge and got in behind a 5 man tac squad. The tac squad was involved with a cc against a unit of 5 scarabs and the flayed ones piled into the rear of the marines much to the players disgust. His comment was "these guys are crap" and I thought we shall see. With cc delivering me the charge and 18 att's I killed 3 marines in this turn, the scarabs wounded but he saved those wounds and made his ldr roll. His next turn a scout squad joined the frey from behind the scarabs. This turn saw no kills by the flayed ones and one scarab base destroyed. I lost combat and failed my roll and for the next 3 turns my flayed ones retreated towards my deployment zone due to low fall back rolls and the opponent keeping his dreadnought witihn range so that I could not get a rally roll.

A point to mention was that one warrior squad accounted for the destruction of 1 assault squad and 1 tactical squad, both 5 men squads. When the dreadnought caught them it only took on e downed warrior to lose the comabt and faile the ldr roll and yes get the broom out of the cupboard.

Overall I think they worked ok on the first turn but was largely unlucky with the ldr roll of 7 or less to make during the opponents next turn. I will use these guys again as they slotted straight into the 1k list I used. List was:

Lord res orb and phase shifter
2x10 warrior squads
1x4 destroyer squad
2x5 scarab squads with d/f - gee dizzy what a surprise...
1x6 flayed ones squad.

Total 998 pts.

Did I mentiont that I like scarabs...


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

I have had another match with my flayed ones in an appocalypse game. I had 6 flayed ones with a lord - res orb, phase shifter, gaze of flame, phlactery and warscythe. A group of mixed kroot charged my unit and had some warriors, kroot hounds and some leader mounted on some sort of puumba beast. All up I lost 2 flayed ones, which stood back up next turn anyways, and killed 5 kroot. The kroot failed the leadership roll and had to get the broom out of the cupboard because they lost the initiative roll off as well. Kick ass flayed ones, sweep those bastards...

Definitely having the lord in as back up helped and so did the gaze. But having I4 all around really helped me to sweep. More test reports to come.

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I don't have my Codex to hand, are flayed ones fearless? If they are then the Lord gains it too, making it a very tough unit.


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Sadly enough they are not fearless. Infiltrate, deep strike and imposing visage is all they get sadly. If they did have the fearless rule, I agree, that they would be quite sad. Yeah, when led by my lord they rocked and it was the first time I actually got a sweep on something else for a while. Having I4 across the board was a nice feeling and certainly helped with the roll instead of I2 with the majority of the other units my lord has been attached to.

I still need to keep play testing with these guys but I believe they are well worth the points spent.

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## PsychoXeno (Jun 23, 2008)

Daneel2.0 said:


> I generally don't take the warscythe though. The 3 S5 AP3 hits are pretty valuable and it still counts as a power weapon. For the 10 extra points this, IMO, makes the warscythe a waste in most cases (exception being Terminators, and then you don't want to be in CC anyway)



I think 3 Unsavable in any way wounds are well worth 10 points. But I can also see the needing some shots with a CC unit.



I plan on getting a full unit of these guys though, only really play 2k games anyway. I also plan on getting a small unit of Pariahs and have them trail the Flayedones. Because then the enemy takes LD7 on their Leadership rolls (unless it is naturally less) and during combat with the Flayedones LD is knocked down to 7 giving them a better chance to only be hit on 6's.

Now if there was a Lord with a Nightmare shroud with them... :mrgreen:


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I hate Flayed ones.....ever since losing 3 Vanquishers to them


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

PsychoXeno said:


> I think 3 Unsavable in any way wounds are well worth 10 points. But I can also see the needing some shots with a CC unit.


In situations where you will be encountering a lot of invulnerable saves, sure. But other than Deathwing armies, how many of these situations do you encounter?

The power weapon is almost always good enough to get the job done, and coupled with the 3 S5 AP3 attacks, is nearly always a better choice.


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## PsychoXeno (Jun 23, 2008)

Essentially, I try and keep My main Lord out of any/all frays. But when fighting Daemons and only the most brazen HQ's/vehicles that are coming after my Lord I tend to worry about being able to cause more wounds/penetrating hits. Especially if the Marines come after me with power fists/weapons. It only takes one wound to lose combat and one bad roll to break Leadership.

My Destroyer Lord always has a Warscythe for interception purposes. If only they get the same scythe that Pariahs get, that would be something grand.


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

PsychoXeno said:


> If only they get the same scythe that Pariahs get, that would be something grand.


I'd have to say amen to that one. I really don't understand the thinking that produced that decision. Hopefully it will be corrected in the new codex, but I doubt it.


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

At the moment I have this thing against termies and until I get tit out of my system I will be using a warscythe with my lord when playing against marines. Not only termies I suppose but IC's as well with a better inv save. Really turns the lord into a purpose driven IC killer.

As for warscythes on the flayed ones, their claws should probably count as a std power weapon or lightning claws with better abilites, hey the necrons are are at the top of the technology ladder after all.

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## PsychoXeno (Jun 23, 2008)

Actually, I was commenting on the Warscythes for Lords, Pariahs get a Blaster built into theirs, Lords do not.

Flayedones with lightning claws is an awesome idea though!


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