# rogal dorn



## dandan1350 (Apr 22, 2010)

could you imagine rogal dorn running into the warp gate and comming back 
out



well i can so i put my mind to the test (just managed to scrape past its m.o.t lol) and thougt it up 

rogal dorn before he could run to through the warp gate alone he was followed by his secret chapter dorn's righteous accompanied by 1000 scouts 200 of his best veterans and his 4 top man captains hey ran after a harsh ................. years in the warp (someone fill in for me) they came back to reality and are now secretly destroying all threats to the human race 

anyone wanna give me some more ideas (im not a fluffer)

my armys coming into pratice so far 20 scouts 1 landspeeder storm 1 captain

making a rogal dorn character will be lysander with a scout hand holing hammer because remeber dorn left his gauntlet


----------



## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

Dorn be dead...not running around kicking ass and Lysander be to busy with the Imperial Fists to go with a secret chapter unless you are only using his rules, I like the name of the chapter and I would like to see some backround.


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Yeah there are only 4 loyalist primarchs that ran off and whose whereabouts are unknown (Leman Russ, Jaghatai Khan, Corax, and Vulkan) and personally I think they're dead too.


----------



## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

I like to think that they are alive and here is what they are all doing:
Khan: Touring the Dark Eldar citys with his band (White Lightning)
Russ, Vulkan and Corax: Met up in the Eye of Terror and are kicking ass (Not sure about Vulkan but definatley the others)


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

The only question I would have is why would Dorn have a secret chapter in the first place?


----------



## dandan1350 (Apr 22, 2010)

reply to the why would dorn have a secret chapter in the first place 

hmmm yes ill give up every single one of my space marines that took me ages to make

and when i make dorn ill give him the lysander rules



just remember im not really a fluffer 

i might be making a project log also i need you're guys help on the background story


----------



## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

If you want to have an army for you and your friends with what you think is cool, then go nuts, have what you like.

If you want to have some fluff that 'fits in' with what is standard, maybe you could have the captain who fits in between cracks, rather than the primarch... something like this:

Captain Mysatro

One of Lysander's early mentors, Captain Mysatro was terribly wounded in the battle through the space hulk Gigamesh. The shortage of Dreadnaught coffins at the time led him to be suspended in a medicae facility on a nearby planet from which the fists recruited. Various incursions of xenos eventually led to the Fists withdrawing from this system until such a time as they could mass a crusade fleet, and the medicae facility with Mysatro was abandoned in the withdrawal. 

With the help of the few remaining medicae staff and mechanicus adepts, Mysatro, awakened from his induced coma, reconstructed many parts of his ruined body, using augmentations and bionics salvaged from the fallen defenders. His power armour pieced back together and with a bolter formerly belonging to one of his battle brothers, he rallied the Imperial survivors on the planet and stormed the debarkation point of the xenos invaders, recaptured an imperial transport and escaped back into imperial space.

Although lauded as a hero on his return to the Fist's fortress monastery, Mysatro saw that only a few of his generation, and his command, remained in the Imperial Fist chapter. Although senior to Lysander, he approached him as a supplicant asking to be allowed to leave on a warrior's quest to combat the enemies of mankind on his own, until their sheer numbers overcame him. Such was his respect amongst the fists, the remainder of his command, now far smaller than the original company, was permitted to leave. Now he and his force travel the imperium, no longer part of the Imperial Fists chapter, searching for clues to Dorn's resting place and turning the tide against the enemies of the emperor in countless small battles.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> reply to the why would dorn have a secret chapter in the first place
> 
> hmmm yes ill give up every single one of my space marines that took me ages to make
> 
> ...


I'm not saying give up on it, far from it. It's just that using 'secret' chapters has never really made a great deal of sense. Why would a Primarch, especially one as loyal as Dorn, need to keep a secret chapter? 
Surely he would have just made them a part of his legion and carried on as normal. During the Great Crusade there was no real limits as such on the size of a legion so there would be no reason to keep them secret. 
In the end they are your Space Marines, you can do what you like with them, paint them baby blue and call them the care bear marines if you want to. 

Rogal Dorn died fighting on a Chaos ship during one of the Black Crusades, they even have one of his skeletal hands and his body is kept in a chapel. 
If, as you say, you're not really a fluffer, then please take constructive criticism for what it is. Do a little research and your fluff will be all the better for it.

A few golden rules for writing fluff.
No secret chapters
Leave the missing Primarchs well alone
No female SM
No "They have been lost in the warp"
No traitor Grey Knights

There are a lot more rules that can be found here: 
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/i...owtopic=132379

Hope some of this helps.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

like the idea but i can go with secret chapter in the Dark Angels cos that just fits totally thier MO and what have you but the Fists i can't really see that myself i think Dorn abhored secrecy of all kinds although Viscious when it comes to recruiting thier novitates i wouldn't like to think of the fists as secretive that would really worry me and um scare me to be honest.


----------



## dandan1350 (Apr 22, 2010)

well guys thanks for the help so ive changed it around and decided to keep working on this chapter same name but diffrent story

as dorn's righteous travelled through space with there small battle fleet after there numbers where drasticly depleted when facing a small band of eldar pirates who had some how managed to retrieve a eldar revenat titan......
after dorns righteous dified orders and stayed on the world of .......... (havent thought of name) to protect its people agaisnt the eldar threat they were excommuncated but did not give up to execution and ran one day when in space 4 imperial emporer class battleships emerged and made quick work of the small space marine fleet little did they know that the ships had been completly deserted and had dropped of to the nearest forge world were they asked the adeptus mechanius for a small fleet but know one knows about the awnser that was given.....


welcome any cristism and will except any help from any body


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Two things first:

One, punctuation please; for the love of all things break your sentences up so its not one gigantic run on block of text.

Two, use of a spell checker often goes a long way; most internet programs have one built in these days, and if you have access to something like microsoft word then that has it as well.



[email protected] said:


> as dorn's righteous travelled through space with there small battle fleet


What exactly constitutes as a small fleet in your mind anyway? What kinds of ships were present and how many?



[email protected] said:


> after there numbers where drasticly depleted when facing a small band of eldar pirates who had some how managed to retrieve a eldar revenat titan......


For this I suggest doing a fair amount of research and working with someone who knows a fair amount about the Eldar. You will be extremely hard pressed to find a craftworld willing to allow corsair Eldar to retrieve one of their titans if it can be salvaged.

Also, as far as retrieval is concerned, this would be done through a massive webway gate as titans are rather large constructs.



[email protected] said:


> after dorns righteous dified orders and stayed on the world of .......... (havent thought of name)


Who was giving them these orders, what were these orders they refused, and by what right did this person/group have to be ordering around a chapter of space marines?

This is once again something to be doing some research on; space marine chapters govern themselves, they answer to themselves and rarely any other. Other Imperial organizations can request or demand things of them (or make accusations) but within a chapter the ultimate authority in regards to giving orders to its parts lies with the chapter master and no other.



[email protected] said:


> to protect its people agaisnt the eldar threat they were excommuncated but did not give up to execution and ran


Once again, by what reason or right does this group/person have to keep part of a space marine chapter from protecting humanity from its enemies? Was there something about the planet that they wanted to keep the marines from? Was it a tainted or cordoned planet and exposure would corrupt/damn?



[email protected] said:


> one day when in space 4 imperial emporer class battleships


Another point to do some research, a battleship is a powerful vessel in its own right, a single one commanding an entire fleet. You will rarely, if ever, find a single Imperial battleship flying about, let alone four being committed to seeking out and destroying a marine fleet.


That being said, did these four battleships have any support vessels? Fleets of their own?



[email protected] said:


> emerged and made quick work of the small space marine fleet little did they know that the ships had been completly deserted


Why were the vessels deserted? Was there something wrong with them? Did they have some alternate means of travel? It is not a very smart move to allow your mode of travel in the galaxy to be destroyed without having something else.



[email protected] said:


> and had dropped of to the nearest forge world were they asked the adeptus mechanius for a small fleet but know one knows about the awnser that was given.....


If the chapter is excommunicated, why would a forgeworld, run by the mechanicus, even be willing to help them? They are, after all, branded traitors of the Imperium regardless of their actions.


When making a chapter, before working on the background and history of your chapter it is a good idea to have some other things decided and filled in first. Things like the following:

Name
Founder
Primarch
Founding
Colour
Battle-cry
Combat doctrine
Current strength

Homeworld (if applicable)
Galactic location

These things, they help to give your chapter some structure before working on its history.


----------



## dandan1350 (Apr 22, 2010)

kk ty, ill start doin some research.


----------



## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

No primarchs death is conretely confirmed, GW's golden rule is nothing is ever confirmed and always has some speculation.

Dorn is not confirmed dead, yes some say he is dead, while others say only his hand and weapons were found, not him the primarch. So he could still be alive, same with how some say ferrus is alive on mars, while others say fulgrim executed him.

You have to remember all books are from an imperial officer perspective, and thus are subject to question, authentication, and subjectivity.


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Ferrus is missing a head, he's dead as concretely as it can be said to be dead.

Are you trying to tell me that when the Imperial Fists only found parts of Dorn's skeletal remains that the big fella had some how skipped off, avoiding both traitors and his own man, taken a shuttle and just zoomed off?


----------



## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

I thought that Dorns skeletal body was encased in amber and kept in the same shrine chapel as his hands?

Pretty much says to me he's dead.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Dorn is dead, his body is encased in amber and his hands are inscribed with the names of the chapter masters since he died.
Horus is dead, Ferrus Manus is dead (or running around like a headless primarch chicken)
Sanguinius is dead.
Night Haunter is dead
Alpharius/Omegon is possibly dead (speculate as you see fit)
Guiliman is probably dead (although held in stasis)

So, there you go 5 dead Primarchs at least and a couple that probably are.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

it would be really wierd if Dorn came running out the warp....unless there is a twin of his running around or something or Fabien finally cloned a primarch...nope dorn is dead wasn't he killed by Perturabo??? anyway that is a definate unless of course you believe in the reinarnation of the primarchs theory its possible i suppose.


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

gothik said:


> it would be really wierd if Dorn came running out the warp....unless there is a twin of his running around or something or Fabien finally cloned a primarch...nope dorn is dead wasn't he killed by Perturabo??? anyway that is a definate unless of course you believe in the reinarnation of the primarchs theory its possible i suppose.


No, Dorn is the only Primarch who's dead not to have been killed by another Primarch or the Emperor (Night Haunter basically committed suicide so I don't think that really counts)- he was slain by Chaos Space Marines in the 1st Black Crusade.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

ahh thanks baron for some reason i always thought he had been killed by Perturabo,


----------



## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

After leading a charge where he was hugely outnumbered onto the bridge of a Despoiler Class Battleship I might add... since the Despoiler Class wasn't designed until the 36th millenium, his death actually must have happened in the 6th or later black Crusade.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

so he would have been one of the last surviving Primarchs then up until this point as no one knows what happened to Russ when he headed into the Warp, Corax or Kharn, and last i was aware Vulkan was off hunting the Eldar still the only way this idea would work i think is if you made it an alternative history tale where Dorn did survive although the idea of a secret chapter is still a little uneasy with me when it comes to the Fists but good luck with it all


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

GrizBe said:


> After leading a charge where he was hugely outnumbered onto the bridge of a Despoiler Class Battleship I might add... since the Despoiler Class wasn't designed until the 36th millenium, his death actually must have happened in the 6th or later black Crusade.


Or, more likely, GW cocked up and haven't noticed yet!


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Yeah that's a cock up on GW's part as the last of the Primarch's disappeared within 300 years of the Heresy having taken place.


----------



## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Possibly not... Primach were meant to be very long lived... heck, Dante is 1000 and still going, not inconceivable that a primarch would last quite a time.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

who knows had things been different then the primarchs might still be kikcing ass 10000 years later but then where would hte fun be in that


----------



## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Just checked... Its not a cock-up. When the Despoiler class ships were designed was in the Battleship Gothic rulebook, and how Dorn died on the bridge of one was in an Index Astartes artical... Both published around 1999


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

It* IS* a cock-up I just checked the Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, and Raven Guard Index Astartes articles and I discovered some very interesting things.

*1)* Rogal Dorn was one of the last Primarchs and he was killed not long after Corax disappeared (_Index Astartes: Imperial Fists_)

*2)* Corax didn't disappear till a century after the Heresy was over, just after the Codex Astartes was implemented- yes the Scouring took close to a century, whereas the Heresy took place over 7 years (_Index Astartes: Raven Guard_)

*3)* Guilliman was also killed within a handful of years of Corax's disappearance and Dorn's death (_Index Astartes: Ultramarines_)

They all died/disappeared roughly 100 years after the heresy occurred.


----------



## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Okay.. so they cocked up on the ship type since its clearly stated in several places Despoiler clases weren't built until the 36th millenium.

That said... reading through the articles.. Dorn was the last to die/disapear.


----------



## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Dorn and ferrus can both still be alive, as well as alpharius and kurze. Its been stated before all books are from the view point of a imperium officer, a being that is fallible, and can lie and is not all knowing. Kurze death is never confirmed, as the video feed cuts off as the assassin leaps at him, the only confirmation is another nl marine who says he saw it, this alone is questionable in itself. The marine could have lied under kurze's orders, maybe kurze wanted to dissapear and wanted to be believed dead.

As for dorn, his skeleton being found is questionable, its also been sated only his hands and weapons were found, he could have also wanted to dissapear.

As for ferrus, some state he is on mars, nothing in gw is ever concrete.

Who's on the golden throne? Is it really the emperor, maybe its horus, etc. Many things are subject to lies and questions in the wh mythos.


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

He was one of the last, the article states most of his brothers had disappeared by the time he died- we know Corax disappeared before Dorn as the article explicitly says so, but what isn't certain is whether Gulliman or Dorn died first. They both died around about a century after the Heresy but nothing more specific than that is known.

I think the Primarchs disappeared/died in the following order:

Lion El'Jonson- he went back to Caliban straight after the Heresy and wasn't around when the Codex was issued.

Leman Russ/Jaghatai Khan/Vulkan/Corax (within years or months of each other)- all disappeared very shortly after the issuing of the Codex

Guilliman/Dorn- Both were around as leaders of the Imperium when their brothers vanished.

All the loyalist Primarchs, barring the Lion, left the Imperium one way or another within (I'd guess) 30 years of the Legion breakup.


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Lux said:


> Dorn and ferrus can both still be alive, as well as alpharius and kurze. Its been stated before all books are from the view point of a imperium officer, a being that is fallible, and can lie and is not all knowing. Kurze death is never confirmed, as the video feed cuts off as the assassin leaps at him, the only confirmation is another nl marine who says he saw it, this alone is questionable in itself. The marine could have lied under kurze's orders, maybe kurze wanted to dissapear and wanted to be believed dead.
> 
> As for dorn, his skeleton being found is questionable, its also been sated only his hands and weapons were found, he could have also wanted to dissapear.
> 
> ...


Most of the fluff within the codeci is from an Imperial pov, but the novels are usually from a detatched view point. You can believe what you like but I'm sticking to the fluff that is very explicit stating that Dorn and Ferrus died- if you'll note the rumours regarding Ferrus still being alive and residing on Mars are violently refuted by the Iron Hands.


----------



## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

Lux said:


> Dorn and ferrus can both still be alive, as well as alpharius and kurze. Its been stated before all books are from the view point of a imperium officer, a being that is fallible, and can lie and is not all knowing. Kurze death is never confirmed, as the video feed cuts off as the assassin leaps at him, the only confirmation is another nl marine who says he saw it, this alone is questionable in itself. The marine could have lied under kurze's orders, maybe kurze wanted to dissapear and wanted to be believed dead.
> 
> As for dorn, his skeleton being found is questionable, its also been sated only his hands and weapons were found, he could have also wanted to dissapear.
> 
> ...


Might I suggest picking up a copy of Soul Hunter as ADB does a wonderful job in his protrayal of this event as well as the fallout that came right after the deed (or should we say crime?) is commited.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

i think that "Fulgrim" or whatever that demon was using Fulgrims body tossing the head oif Ferrus at the feet of Horus pretty much seals that arguement in my mind, as for Curze i would like to think that he was still alive out there but both soul hunter and lord of the night state that his head hit the ground and that his death would vindicate him. still no harm in conspiracy theories, as for the others who knows thats always open to interpretation, there are some that believe Gulliman will come back to life and that his wound is healing.....in this place anything is possible.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

There's always room for some speculation but when it's stated quite clearly that someone is dead, their body is in a huge block of amber and that their hands are used as a roll of honour, they're not coming round for Christmas dinner.
speculate all you like about whether or not Guiliman or Alpharius is dead, they leave that sort of thing open for exactly that reason.
Arguing that some one might still be alive when it's clearly stated otherwise is pointless.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

well we now now that Alpaharius is a twin so it is entirely possible that whilst one may be dead the other is still leading the leigon gods those Alpha boys have more mystery then an agatha christie novel....


----------

