# Disappointed with new Necrons...



## Meshuggah (Nov 30, 2010)

Well guys I'm a little disappointed with the look and fluff of the new necrons. Yes this is a rant so prepare your self's for a hate fest. Why by the gods did GW think it would be cool to turn the cons into egyptians? We have the tomb kings already(which has "the mommy" written all over it, and to a lesser extent the thousand sons have a bit of egyptian about them. So why do it again? its retarded, a robot/machine has no need of any form of culture. A machine wouldn't wear head dresses like the lychguard have. A robot would never have a stupid little beard like the cryptecks have. And now they have dynasties? come on there machines for the third time! And to top that off one of the IC's name is Imotckh! lame lame lame! And Trazyn has the dumbest fluff ever, so he just goes around collecting useless artefacts? gezz how much time do you think the GW guys put into that one? Now onto the models, the triarch praetorians look completely horrible I'm not even going to get started about them. the ghost ark is a complete fail. I mean i understand what they were going for, spinal cord and ribs. But there is just too much of the same shape going on, it didn't need all those ribs. And the gun on the doomsday ark looks like a five year old could have made it. The barge's look like a ripoff of something the dark eldar would make, oh and that includes the arks as well. And the cons have tesla destructors? Wow I'm sure i can't be the only person that realizes that the cons obviously have better tech then tesla! I clearly could keep going but by now i hope you see my point. I really don't think there was much brain storming going on at GW. The cons had way more potential then these abominations they now call necrons!


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## SavageConvoy (Sep 21, 2011)

The necrons are the first race in 40k to ENSLAVE GODS TO DO THEIR BIDDING!
The necrons were bland before. Robots. That's all they were. And before they were turned into robots they were even more boring. Now they have some interesting concepts and an actual drive in the 40K setting. "Kill everything" IS NOT A GOOD MOTIVATION.

I can't even tell if you're trolling! Tesla is a human name so we can understand the relevance of the weapons. If you named it #$%*-tator then nobody would give a sh*t about it because we have no clue what that means to us. 

You got a great codex, great models, and decent fluff. Stop crying about how you could have made it better or how you appreciate the old style more.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

I miss the Bland Killing Machine Robots................At least they made good unthinking minions who didnt try to [email protected]!) there gods over.


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

I like them, but the White Dwarf fluff is god awful. A necron basically teleports into the aftermath of the battle and just goes "Oh hi, have an eldar lol!". Why don't they just teleport suicide bots?


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## SavageConvoy (Sep 21, 2011)

But again the problem is why are they bland killing machines? There only goal was to kill until everything was almost dead then go to sleep. Rinse and repeat. That's so boring. there is no drive, no intelligence, no end goal. It's every other armies first step in galactic domination. Except the other races actually have a reason and a plan after everyone else is dead. After dancing and desecrating alien graveyards of course.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

SavageConvoy said:


> "Kill everything" IS NOT A GOOD MOTIVATION.


As a Tyranid player to the core, I beg to differ. I fully plan to pretend the new fluff doesn't exist.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

SavageConvoy said:


> But again the problem is why are they bland killing machines?


Sometimes pure destruction and the extinction of every living thing because you no longer are is enough. 

There was actual backstory and fluff.... very very very good fluff.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

SavageConvoy said:


> But again the problem is why are they bland killing machines? There only goal was to kill until everything was almost dead then go to sleep. Rinse and repeat. That's so boring. there is no drive, no intelligence, no end goal. It's every other armies first step in galactic domination. Except the other races actually have a reason and a plan after everyone else is dead. After dancing and desecrating alien graveyards of course.


Not to mention that the unthinking horde of aliens that wants to kill everything already exists in the form of the Tyranids. There was no point in having two unstoppable barely sentient forces in the same setting. At least the Necrons now have something to give them some personality. It's suddenly a lot easier to write interesting background involving the Necrons more than "they show up, kill stuff and move on".

That being said I do think some of the Egyptian theme in the models themselves could have been made a bit more subtle (more like how the Necrons were previously with just hints of Egyptian theme instead of headdresses and scarab icons and so on plastered all over everything), but I certainly won't lose any sleep over this.

What I'm really excited to see is how the Necrons perform on the tabletop in the next three or so months.


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## troybuckle (Nov 24, 2010)

Just because the fluff didn’t go the way that you wanted it to, doesn’t mean there wasn’t a lot of thought into it. Almost all the 40k armies have WHF counterparts, I think GW does this on purpose. The new minis look far more interesting then the older ones, just think how boring they would be if all the units were the same with different weapons lol. The new vehicles IMO are cool, after all, the monolith wasn’t the most interesting design choice, it is a floating pyramid. Now with a pile of gold clad robotic Egyptian warriors running around in front of it, it looks a lot better. Also, the IC might be a bit nuts, but if I were 64 million years old, id probably be doing random shit as well, just to keep myself interested. Sorry to shit on your rant man, but if you don’t like the army then don’t buy it, I actually don’t like CSM much, but im sure many people do, so why shit on them To each there own.


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## SavageConvoy (Sep 21, 2011)

Atleast with the Tyranids you can chalk it up to an entity that knows only hunger and the desire to survive. They're just a swarm of bugs that knows that they need to kill and devour to live, and can't really move beyond that. Although I know they're supposed to be a lot smarter than that, it's still easy to see the base instinct at work.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

troybuckle said:


> The new minis look far more interesting then the older ones, .


I agree, except the flayed ones. If they are viable, I will be trying to get the old ones off of ebay or soemthing.


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## troybuckle (Nov 24, 2010)

lokis222 said:


> I agree, except the flayed ones. If they are viable, I will be trying to get the old ones off of ebay or soemthing.


Yes, that is the one unit that doesn’t look all that great, but im sure we will see some GS work and gory paint jobs that will improve them somewhat.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

SavageConvoy said:


> Atleast with the Tyranids you can chalk it up to an entity that knows only hunger and the desire to survive. They're just a swarm of bugs that knows that they need to kill and devour to live, and can't really move beyond that. Although I know they're supposed to be a lot smarter than that, it's still easy to see the base instinct at work.


Pretty much the same with the old necrons. I will agree to disagree. When I started, it was tyranids or necrons.It came down to a flip of the coin at my local. I liked both for the same reason. 

No one askes your fluff once the army goes down. Personally, I will probably model out the stuff that looks Egyptian. I just preferred the old stuff.


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## Meshuggah (Nov 30, 2010)

No I totaly see what you guys are saying. But my point is why not come up with something more robotic? I do like that some crons are sentient, and that they over though the C'tan, thats cool and new. And that now they rule over the C'tan in a lesser form. I mean let's face it a greater deamon isn't a god but just a fragment of one of the four powers. If the C'tan were real gods then you wouldn't really need an army of robots. But the Egyptian thing as been done already, like I said be before there machines they don't need culture of any kind. Just come up with something more suited for a race of machines.


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## SavageConvoy (Sep 21, 2011)

If they were a completely robotic race then they would need something to drive them still. I like they way they are, it shows some signs that they were a culture before they turned themselves into machines. It's hard to make up new cultural icons and everyting out of nowhere, so yeah they probably just said screw it and went with an egyptian theme. But people would complain if they had gone in any direction to show a cultural basis for the army.

Also if I remember, everyone complained about how bland the necrons were. Just walking robotic skeletons trying to kill/take over everything because.... for the lols. If they stuck with that, people would complain that they're just like the borg or the terminators, or cylons or hell even decepticons. Galactic domination is a stupid concept that only a feeble organic meat puppet would consider a worthy endeavor. You have to make the characters seem human for the desire to conquer seem like a legitimate idea.


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## Meshuggah (Nov 30, 2010)

oh yeah i forgot about the flayed ones, the old minis deff looked better. I'm hoping the minis we have yet to see are much better. that is if there are anymore still to come out or if its just rumours...


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## InquisitorTidusSolomon (Mar 7, 2009)

The point of the things such as the dynasties and the large amount of Egyptian-themed iconography is to hark back to the days of the Necrontyr *before* they became soulless machines. The Necrons aren't just some race of robots that popped right the fuck up out of nowhere. They had a culture before making their great transformation.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

I don't quite get the egyptian hate, as far as I know necrons have always had a faint egyptian theme, just look at the original necrons for instance, and the monolith, all they have done is reinforce something that was already there and was already quite obvious, its its both of those things already and nobody has complained why not take it further?


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

James Tiberius said:


> I don't quite get the egyptian hate, as far as I know necrons have always had a faint egyptian theme, just look at the original necrons for instance, and the monolith, all they have done is reinforce something that was already there and was already quite obvious, its its both of those things already and nobody has complained why not take it further?


Seconded,people forget that simple little fact that 40k is fantasy in space and if people take just a few seconds to check out the specialist games section they will see the eygpt theme is very firmly established.But each to there own you dont have to like it but nobody should be surprised by it,thay would be like saying bugger me the new sisters codex makes them out to be women with guns!


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

James Tiberius said:


> I don't quite get the egyptian hate, as far as I know necrons have always had a faint egyptian theme, just look at the original necrons for instance, and the monolith, all they have done is reinforce something that was already there and was already quite obvious, its its both of those things already and nobody has complained why not take it further?


The first comment from you that I totally agree with. :goodpost:


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Scarabs, Giant pyramids, skeletons... Nope not based of tombkings at all, Really are you serious they are tomb kings in space and always have been.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

It's interesting that they're pushing more obvious parallels in 40k and fantasy now. They went through a phase of doing the opposite when the squats were killed off. Space dwarves were seen as a bit too much. Then you had the tau and tyranids introduced, races with no obvious fantasy parallel.

I would agree however that the Egyptian references were always there. Not just in the scarabs, pyramids etc but in their general themes. Sun worship, being an ancient, advanced civilisation,the 'mummy' aspects. Now they're just less subtle (which seems to be somewhat of a trend recently, the new space wolves and blood angels for example seem much more viking-esque and vampiric than previous incarnations).


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Whatsat? Necrons are egyptian themed? 

Well fuck me, when did this happen? :fool:


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Meshuggah said:


> Well guys, I'm a little disappointed with the look and fluff of the new Necrons. Yes, this is a rant, so prepare yourselves for a hate fest. Why by the gods did GW think it would be cool to turn the Crons into Egyptians? We have the Tomb Kings already (which has "The Mummy" written all over it), and to a lesser extent the Thousand Sons have a bit of an Egyptian air about them.
> 
> So why do it again? It's retarded, a robot/machine has no need of any form of culture. A machine wouldn't wear a head dress like the Lychguard have. A robot would never have a stupid little beard like the Crypteks have. And now they have dynasties? Come on; they're machines for the third time! And to top that off one of the IC's name is Imotekh! Lame lame lame! And Trazyn has the dumbest fluff ever; so he just goes around collecting useless artefacts? Geez, how much time do you think the GW guys put into that one?
> 
> ...


My eyes hurted.

Anyhow, I agree with most of the comments. They were great as a silent, unstoppable, implacable force. Having them leave enemies alive, when they're supposed to be life-haters, and the blatant Egyptian theme is a bit much for me. I understand that they're trying to re-establish Necron fluff, but it _was _an awesome concept that has been watered down. Rather than being soulless automata with Egyptian themes, they're Egyptians with robotic themes. 

They should have taken a leaf from the Dark Eldar's book - they didn't have their background change radically, they just had their fluff expanded. They'ce always been sick bastards who use poisoned weapons and Darklight, with some arcane wargear on the side. Necrons suddenly have Tesla appearing out of nowhere and some of the grenades that GK left lying around (Grenades that make a model attack their own unit? Oh, that's _definitely_ a new concept, GW).

The issue I have with the models is that the Barges don't , in my eyes, synchronise with the fluff - if the Monolith has a portal to bring Warriors to the battle, you'd have thought that they wouldn't need physical transports.

Glancing through the Codex today, I noticed one glaring detail - do Necrons actually have ANY Invulnerable saves?

Midnight


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

MidnightSun said:


> Glancing through the Codex today, I noticed one glaring detail - do Necrons actually have ANY Invulnerable saves?
> 
> Midnight


They do. I haven't read the entire book yet but Wraiths have Invuls, as do Lychguard with disruption shields as well as C'tan and anyone with a Phase Shifter. I'm sure I'm missing at least one other thing too.

That being said, Necrons can get back up after dying so Invul saves are less important for them.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Yeah, I guess that the Reanimation is like a 5++.

But speaking from experience, watching Warrior-heavy Necrons fight Guard with Manticores is just plain fun.

Midnight


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Well, if guard appear, i think Anrakyr is in order. I'll have that manticore thank you very much . I do miss the old themes, but the fluff behind my tomb world is that they despise organic life, seeing it as inferior, and purging it entirely, and they embrace their machine form, fuck this Apotheosis shite.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Imotekh can mess with Guard pretty well too, between Night Fighting conditions and random lightning bolts slamming into Chimeras.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

They've kept the idea of nihilistic automatons, intent only on the annihilation of all life in the form of the Destroyer malady. So it's perfectly possible to construct a Dynasty subsumed by this curse/virus if you want to hark back to 'simpler' days.

For those of us who enjoy a deeper ideology in 40Ks antagonists this can only be a good thing, and it's hardly like this is the first time GW have effected a retcon (nor is it the most radical).

I'll miss the Void Dragon/Outsider angles, but maybe they'll still be covered in some fashion.

Edit: Actually to be honest there is one thing that annoys me, the complete abandonment of Pariahs- I know they don't fit into the current fluff now but I always thought it was such an interesting angle. Then again I suppose that was because it gave some character to the souless killer robots, a crutch the Necrons no longer need


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## MidnightKid333 (Feb 2, 2011)

If you don't like the fluff, then just invent your own. Give immotekh a different name. Call him the nightbringer for old times sake (_he brings the night_.. lightning bolts, night fighting rule, night stuff in general.. nightbringer). You don't have to follow the pre-written fluff. You are completely legible to write your own and rename you models. Just make sure your opponent knows what is what.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

If I recall a lot of the hubbub, there was talk that not only were there going to be these new Dynasties of Necrons (honestly it's mostly to give new players ideas on where to jump off with the army, or ways to paint them so comlaining about is like complaining about Eldar having different Craftworlds) but there were still plenty of these damag tomb-worlds we know and love (something that was hinted in the old book too, how there are tombs that only produce certian kinds of Necrons, or regularly show up to attempt to gather certian resources creating predictible waves of brainless metal skeletons, perfect for training the new recruits on!), so really I see this as a big improvement. You can still rock the rust-Crons if you'd like, and all that jazz, or you can pick up one of the newly awakened Dynasties and all the options that brings insead.

.....OOOOOORRR if it bothers you THAT much you cold skip playing Necrons and go play something else.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Have skimmed the book now. The rules look well written. I thought some of the rules were really interesting. Like the guy who buffs himself by rolling a D6, but the next turn can unbuff himself by getting a roll on a d6 in the same way. 

Was also talking to a guy who played old editions. He was claiming ultramarines didn't used to be space marines and the fellow who wrote the codex astairs(sp) in old fluff wasn't even a primarch. In comparison, these changes seem minor. 

Overall, happy with the new codex.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

I could not disagree more with this thread. If you hate the new release so much, just don't buy any of the models and get over yourself.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

lokis222 said:


> Have skimmed the book now. The rules look well written. I thought some of the rules were really interesting. Like the guy who buffs himself by rolling a D6, but the next turn can unbuff himself by getting a roll on a d6 in the same way.
> 
> Was also talking to a guy who played old editions. He was claiming ultramarines didn't used to be space marines and the fellow who wrote the codex astairs(sp) in old fluff wasn't even a primarch. In comparison, these changes seem minor.
> 
> Overall, happy with the new codex.


Ultramarines have also gone fom being a second founding chapter to one of the original legions...just to give you an idea how much things can change.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

Zion said:


> OOOOOORRR if it bothers you THAT much you cold skip playing Necrons and go play something else.


naaaaah, we should just start a petition to recall the new codex and all new models, may as well, looking at the history of every new codex released it'll just be shit in a month or so anyway, it'll probably be the same people as before saying its shit, but hey why would they be wrong?


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

People bad mouthing the new necrons! May your horrible gauss induced deaths please our new robot Egyptian masters! No but seriously after reading the codex I have very little major negative points to talk about other then odd fluff. In fact it seems a step up from some of the army specific idiocy I found in the GK's ect.


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## VK-Duelist (Oct 4, 2010)

I missed the old Necrons.

The ones who wanted to harvest people's souls and feed their gods.


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## troybuckle (Nov 24, 2010)

New things scare people -- histories and Codex must evolve or it be boring, how long has the old dex been around 10 years? I’m just super happy it was updated.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Yeah its not like that concept wasn't be using by chaos.


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## Amoeba Bait (May 31, 2010)

To quote Futurma: 
"Calculon, I had no idea that you were..."
*EGYPTAIN!!!!*

On a serious note, I did prefer the old 'Crons, but end of the day it is GW desicion to update them. I'm glad to see some new units coming in, although I dont agree with the names of some of the IC's. Imotek? Tuten-necron? Please. 
If I had 'Crons, I'd name them differently. Something like a title scared Imperial Citizens would name them or something.

Hate 'em, love 'em. They're here to stay.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Having read the new book I have to say I really like it. I was worried they'd go down the boring route of Feels No Pain but they've made Necrons even more hardcore than that. Reanimation Protocols is great, 5+ to get back up every phase is epic especially because it's unrestricted. They've kept the great Gauss rule. They're still weak in combat but got some good support. In short things I like are

Reanimation Protocols
Monoliths
Crypteks
Entropic Strike
Wraiths 
Tesla Weapons

for ~200 points you can drop a unit of 6 Wraiths which are really nasty now, 2 Wounds each, 3++, 3 S6 Rending Attacks each.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I like the feel of the codex from what I have seen. And this is just refering to background material. I certainly prefer this to the previous codex in that respect. I would have prefered the old ones to have been defeated and driven from the universe, with recourse for them to return at some point in the future. Detroyed seems too final. 

I dont really care about the names fo different characters. Using names we are already aare of from ancient cultures is nothig new and I dont see it as anthing to get upset about.

I want to see how they fair on the battlefield before I start buying minatures.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

If you don't like the new Necrons, then I you have my pity to see another Necron fan meet disappointment after all these years. However, I could not be more happy with the Newcrons and 40k in general now.


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

I read on BoLS today that there is a rumour floating that, come 6th edition, rapidfire weapons will be altered drastically. According to the rumours, rapidfire weapons will work like this:

Stationary: 2 shots up to maximum range
Moving: 1 shot up to maximum range or 2 shots at 12"

If this is the case, this new necron book will be really...really solid in the next edition. 

Dose of salt needed, obviously.


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## SlamHammer (Mar 28, 2011)

Is it to early to say it:

Matt Ward didn't fuck this one up...lol.

Anyways, I really like the flavor and feel of the Necrons. I can't find anything crazy enough that I can't get behind.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

elmir said:


> I read on BoLS today that there is a rumour floating that, come 6th edition, rapidfire weapons will be altered drastically. According to the rumours, rapidfire weapons will work like this:
> 
> Stationary: 2 shots up to maximum range
> Moving: 1 shot up to maximum range or 2 shots at 12"
> ...


If you combine that with the preferred enemy rule change so that shooting is also included, it might be that some of the lacklustre things are going to be very strong indeed. Got my fingers crossed.

I don't think it is too early. It seems well balanced and seems to lack the uber cheese that his earliest codexes had. I am sitting at a 1500pt list right now because the units that I want to use to expand my list are still not released. Hopefully there will be better support than the tyranids codex got in terms of new models.


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

lokis222 said:


> If you combine that with the preferred enemy rule change so that shooting is also included, it might be that some of the lacklustre things are going to be very strong indeed. Got my fingers crossed.


That's why I actually do think that rumour might be true. It would definatly not be the first time that GW makes a dramatic shift in power like this with a new edition...

Just look at fantasy and the shift in power from cavalry --> infantry. You may see a similar thing with assault weapons --> rapidfire. 

That change alone would bring GKs down from their current pedestal and put lots of mediocre choices back on the map. And I'm sure GW will not mind that you'll have to change your troop selection drastically if you have a more win orientated mindset... :wink:


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## Tropico (Feb 2, 2011)

.... *cough* 

I like some of the new fluff... because now my jerk of a friend can't tell me what to do with my necrons... 

Cuz I made it that my army are renegades after Kal K'mah, my necron lord, destroyed an idol to the Deciever in his rage at the C'tan... 

Now with an 'overlord' controlling several tombfleets, it actually feels like my Cron's disengagement from the whole is more mortifying/disruptive and shiz like that... 

Now more on topic, Yeah, some of the new stuff is kinda silly, and some of it I would definately not buy. but I have a glorious suggestion! 

DID IT EVER OCCUR TO NECRON PLAYERS THAT THEY CAN IGNORE FLUFF/MODELS?! 

WHAT in god's green earth and Emperor's sparkling imperium STATES that THOU SHALT NOT have necrons who just want to reap you and feed your souls to their gods, or that you MUST buy the new sets??!

Really, c'mon now. :\ Surely I'm not the only one who realises this?


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

I like the new Necron codex. Okay, they've lost some of the 'mystery' of their old codexes fluff, as now they're basically Tomb Kings in space, but at least there is fluff and special characters now.

I also like the introduction of all the skimmers. Makes the army a lot more diverse and interesting. Having some of the transports act as portals, rather than physical transports, is a really nice touch as well.


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## Lubacca (Sep 4, 2011)

I like what I've seen. I think it's a good showing overall. Ward seems to understand a bit better what's needed in a Codex, however I will also mention that he was brought in to polish and finish the Codex. So that means that it's not solely his handiwork and that should be kept in mind. 

I LOVE the new minis. I can't wait to get my hands on some and play around with colors on them. I think that Necron players have a good little feast for themselves and will be a good power here in the upcoming edition.


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## WarlordKaptainGrishnak (Dec 23, 2008)

I agree with most of what has been said here...about the Necs not being disappointing.

EVERY codex has fluff people dont like. EVERY army has models that people don't like. But if people complain about those things EVERY release, GW could fuck us off and release WD codices more regularly  I mean if people keep complaining about the fluff and models, then they may as well stick to rule writing...

but anywho...

I like the new models, it gives a new feel to the necrons (wasnt there some thing in that last few months, leading up to release about a necron codex update like being a 'Phase' in the necrons awakening, where the old codex is like Phase 1 with basic units, and Phase 2 being more advanced killy units and tech we hadnt seen before...)

what I hear the rules are very well done (possibly with 6th Ed in mind?) and it looks like a promising army.

I think it will be like the DE or GK release; some people were iffy about some of the models, but after a few months of seeing them played differently and in different schemes they began to grow on people. We'll see the powerhouse builds in the first few months as bandwagoners come and go, and the new Nec's try to get themselves up the competitative ladder. Give it 3-4, even 4-5 months and the diehards will be around still, and we'll see some excellent games with the new Necs.

When it comes down to it, if GW gives us new toys...do we have the right to complain (especially so soon after release?)


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

<--- Is now building his immortal/deathmark box set as immortals after getting the codex.

Also I have one word for all the reductionist gamers who want to crap all over the new glorious necrons codex. Tesla cannons. For 90 pts you can have 6 auto cannon shots on a av13 skimmer. Oh an lets not forget the fact that 4 of which are twin linked, and every to hit of 6 give another two automatic hits.If you are buggering around in a crappy av 10-11 tank count your shit broken if you get within Tesla range. Hell even though the one telsa whore vehicle can fire both guns after moving 12" one of em can, and the good part is its a 100pt transport (Mind you its av11), but what do you expect for a fast skimmer transport with a carrying capacity of 15


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