# 6th Edition General Discussion



## Konsivar (Jun 21, 2012)

ITs the moment all the 40k gamers of the world have been waiting for, the release of the 6th edition Rulebook! Feel free to use this thread to chat about it and share ideas about it, its pros and cons, your favorite bits etc.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Konsivar said:


> ITs the moment all the 40k gamers of the world have been waiting for, the release of the 6th edition Rulebook! Feel free to use this thread to chat about it and share ideas about it, its pros and cons, your favorite bits etc.


Unless some people are getting it early, you're a week off. The release date is the 30th, 23rd is WD release and preorder date.


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## Atzunew (Jun 11, 2012)

Quite the misleading title there friend.

I admit that I will sadly have to wait until after the summer to get the book since cash is tight now. If the starter set has Chaos like the rumors are saying then I may just pick that up for the pocket rule book.

~Atzunew


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## Kelann08 (Nov 22, 2011)

Aren't there multiple threads already discussing this?


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## Konsivar (Jun 21, 2012)

Well to awnser madder, I did see it on GW website, may have jumped the gun but it didnt specify if it was preorder.


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## arizonajirt (Apr 5, 2011)

the ultimate edition is now sold out on the US site


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## Konsivar (Jun 21, 2012)

The gamer addition still there?


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## Kelann08 (Nov 22, 2011)

arizonajirt said:


> the ultimate edition is now sold out on the US site





Konsivar said:


> The gamer addition still there?


Ultimate edition is the collector book AND the gamer set. 

They probably set aside X collector/gamer sets for ultimate and sell the rest separately.

The collector and gamer editions by themselves are still available.


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## Pandora (Jun 19, 2012)

It may not be out yet. But you can pause the video on the site and see a few bits of tastey rules, especially for flyers. It would seem that flyers cannot normally be assaulted but have fairly limiting movement, except for distance.


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

Maybe you'll even buy a copy of this Ruleset, "Konsivar"?


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## Kelann08 (Nov 22, 2011)

Pandora said:


> It may not be out yet. But you can pause the video on the site and see a few bits of tastey rules, especially for flyers. It would seem that flyers cannot normally be assaulted but have fairly limiting movement, except for distance.


Looked like they can move normally if they want to but a "zoom" move gives them 18" combat speed and 36" cruising speed as an alternative. They can only rotate 90° before the move and lose all ability to turn mid move if they "zoom". It can also take them off the board and into "ongoing reserves" if you aren't careful! Thank God for premeasuring.


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## lockeF (Feb 18, 2011)

Its so pricey . I want it next week but it seems so much more logical to wait till September and get the models too (especially as I play both armies  ). But its soooo damn cool. What is a gamer to do?


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## Kelann08 (Nov 22, 2011)

lockeF said:


> Its so pricey . I want it next week but it seems so much more logical to wait till September and get the models too (especially as I play both armies  ). But its soooo damn cool. What is a gamer to do?


I think the main consideration you make at this point is "do I need the fluff"? Most of the changes will be discussed here to a point you could effectively wait for the minibook. We don't know what, if any, special items will be in the box set (a la multi-melta AOBR dread) so we can't apply that to our decision. In the end, the major difference is the wealth of fluff and new pictures. If that's worth it to you, then buy it (it is to me). 

Between bits sellers and ebay, its likely you'll be able to get the minibook and whatever unique piece you want from the starter set pretty easily and (relatively) inexpensive. Most of the models you probably won't need or can get cheaper in their own box sets. If you DO want them, then you can get the starter set and not really have gotten anything you don't need.

k:

Also, look around your area for a discount retailer. I got my BRB preordered for $54.


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## Eleven (Nov 6, 2008)

lol, I almost down reped this guy for this thread. super misleading, not news, totally inaccurate. Please change the title of the thread or just delete it.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Eleven said:


> lol, I almost down reped this guy for this thread. super misleading, not news, totally inaccurate. Please change the title of the thread or just delete it.


Down rep been disabled for a while now.


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## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

i haven't had one game of 40k yet, but i have a refresher thing booked in my local gw for next week. does this mean i have to pretty much get a whole new rulebook and learn new rules all over again? and does this also mean the codices will also have to have revisions to keep up with the new rules?


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Yes and yes

I'm guessing most rules will be the same so you'll just need to take on the changes/additions.


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## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

so it's basically more of a glorified errata than anything?


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

I think I'll wait for confirmation on what they're fucked up next before I buy.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Eleven said:


> lol, I almost down reped this guy for this thread. super misleading, not news, totally inaccurate. Please change the title of the thread or just delete it.


Normally I would close the thread but as there were complaints when I did this I will simply leave it open to see how things pan out... Changing thread title though...


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

MadCowCrazy said:


> Normally I would close the thread but as there were complaints when I did this I will simply leave it open to see how things pan out... Changing thread title though...


MCC as the complainer in question i can say without a shadow of a doubt this thread should be closed or moved to general and i would support you doing so


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Raizer Sabre said:


> so it's basically more of a glorified errata than anything?


Seeing as every edition change tweaks fluff through changes/additions, and adding in new rules (Zoom for example), vehicles types (Flyers, Heavy and Chariots for example), then yes it is a "glorified errata" just like every other edition change.

In all honesty I'm seriously considering starting this new edition with a new army. I've spent a majority of my games in 5th either switching armies (to find one that wasn't raped by the old rules) or playing Sisters of Battle and while I seriously dig the Sisters this looks like a good time to try new things and I'm seriously looking at playing something else (current top of my list is Daemons of Chaos. The rumors of Daemons causing Fear seem pretty spiffy to me to be honest).


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## Zodd (Jul 27, 2009)

"In the Chaos Daemon army, everything causes Fear.." WD391 pg 35.
Spiffy it is


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## The Irish Commissar (Jan 31, 2012)

My poor guardsman are going to be running away like little girls to daemons.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

irish commissar, then pure the enemy with fire before they reach our puny guardsmen


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Did anyone find it a bit ominous in White Dwarf that when the Valkyrie gets destroyed, everyone inside takes a Strength 10 AP 1 hit? I dearly hope that's a rule for flyers only.

But still, a Daemon Prince, flying 24" with a Sweep Attack? Aspiring Sorceror taking a Meltagun? 5+ universal cover? Additional Traits to make characters better?

Oh I'm rather looking forward to this.

Midnight


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

Valkyries?vendettas are flyers ?? :shok:

this means moving up to 12" and fireing 3 TL lascannons :victory:


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

I can certainly see Vets in Vendettas coming to an abrupt end - they'd be turned to toast the second anyone brought out any autocannons.
Can I also assume that this will be the edition of high RoF weapons (again), what with the introduction of hull points and the new wound allocation system?


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

i can now see a horde of orks charging towards my IG jsut for them to be cut down by HB fire and massed lasguns, and just not make the charge as the one who would have made it is killed by overwatch


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## Kelann08 (Nov 22, 2011)

khrone forever said:


> Valkyries?vendettas are flyers ?? :shok:
> 
> this means moving up to 12" and fireing 3 TL lascannons :victory:


Flyers can move 36" and still fire up to four weapons at full BS.


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## jaggedjaw (Oct 2, 2010)

I have a quick question: in the video they showed rules for allies, does that mean you could take guardsmen with chaos space marines or what?


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

jaggedjaw said:


> I have a quick question: in the video they showed rules for allies, does that mean you could take guardsmen with chaos space marines or what?


I suspect there'll be a list of who can ally with whom, or else you'd get insane fluff-breaking combinations. Traitor Guard would be fine with CSMs, though personally I'm mainly psyched about using Nurgle Daemons with my Death Guard.


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## SuperSquid (Feb 5, 2011)

jaggedjaw said:


> I have a quick question: in the video they showed rules for allies, does that mean you could take guardsmen with chaos space marines or what?


there is a allies chart leaked somewhere (i think BoLS or warseer) that lists who can take what armies for their allies.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

This one: it's the same one as the one used for Doubles.


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## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Svartmetall said:


> I suspect there'll be a list of who can ally with whom, or else you'd get insane fluff-breaking combinations. Traitor Guard would be fine with CSMs, though personally I'm mainly psyched about using Nurgle Daemons with my Death Guard.


This has also been up for a few days I think too. Hard to find it though.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> I can certainly see Vets in Vendettas coming to an abrupt end - they'd be turned to toast the second anyone brought out any autocannons.
> Can I also assume that this will be the edition of high RoF weapons (again), what with the introduction of hull points and the new wound allocation system?


If zooming, Vendettas are going to be only hit on 6s, and will be able to do evasive manoeuvres (possibly gives a cover save or something). Then, next turn can land, drop vets, and fire (only at BS1 if it did the evasive manoeuvres thing). Without dedicated anti air, they're going to be pretty hard targets to take out. If it IS taken out though, yeah, the vets are toast.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

If possible, then IG Hydras are going to become the most popular Allies choice ever if their autocannons can take out Flyers.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Well the collectors edition is sold out in the UK at least... hope everyone who wanted it ordered it.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

hydras are going to be f**king AWESOME


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## rtthg6 (Nov 27, 2011)

im i reading the allies thing right marines with orks:shok:


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## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

rtthg6 said:


> im i reading the allies thing right marines with orks:shok:


Yup!

Educated guess but I don't think it's going to be a buddy-buddy alliance and more of a "we need to kill those things over there but the orks are in the way and trying to kill them first...so we'll wait" kind of alliance. I know if the green tide was trying to kill something else I'd let that whittle them down for me.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Been busy writing down rulebook rules all day, moving this to General


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Spanner, thanks for posting the PDF, it was interesting. However, this whole allies bit doesn't change my stance. I'm not doing an allies list for quite a long while due to lack of funds.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I will be interested to see how many torunaments allow allies. All well and good for fun games, but I can see over powered combos making torunaments a bit of a mare.


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

humakt said:


> I will be interested to see how many torunaments allow allies. All well and good for fun games, but I can see over powered combos making torunaments a bit of a mare.


Seeing how it's in the BRB now, why would they not allow it? I mean sure maybe not at first, but down the road it would just seem silly to not use cool new rules.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm skeptical about allies. For me personally it will make more interesting games because I play daemons and CSM, but the idea of having to deal with GKs when im playing armies other than GKs is what i'm not thrilled about. Things like necrons taking nasty CC units might make them over the top.

Flyers are a cool addition, but I feel like GW is shoving them down our throats because they're so powerful they're almost an auto include. 

Im also interested to see how they handled the FOC terrain pieces like bastions, and if they'll also be mandatory.

Quick question, anyone have any confirmation on new DS rules? I haven't seen anything mentioned when people were discussing the WD battle reports. 

If for nothing else, im happy that my 1ksons will be more playable now. Basically doubling their shot output, and cover being 5+ means they'll be doing more damage. If aspiring sorcerers can take disciplines from the BRB they'll be even better.

Also, can someone fill me in on what fear does? was this covered in WD? :victory:


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Blood Angels/Necron alliance FTW


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Da Joka said:


> Seeing how it's in the BRB now, why would they not allow it? I mean sure maybe not at first, but down the road it would just seem silly to not use cool new rules.


Being in the rules doesnt necessarily make it cool. I can see the attraction of it, making the game more cinematic, which always appears to be GW primary goal. But does it make it a good addition for more competative games, where the cinematic effect is less important to the end result of winning by any means in the rules.

I don't know how it will pan out either way, but being in the big yellow book as I think it should now be called (BYB) isn't goging to convince me its going to be good in all forms of the game.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Two things keep bothering me, and I was wondering if anyone else had heard an answer yet:

1. If a unit is on overwatch, at what point do they get to shoot the unit that's assaulting them? Is it before or after they roll the dice to charge? Can this prevent the assault from succeeding?

2. Are the new assault rules going to force you to remove your unit champion (Sgt/Nob/etc) out before models not in base to base contact? I heard you have to remove models in base to base first, but I wasn't sure if this applies to unit champions.

Thank you!


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Fair guess that the whole Allies nonsense is to justify even more future Fluff from the destroyer of canon - Matt Ward.

If he has anything to do with the new Eldar Codex I will kill the world.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Orochi said:


> Fair guess that the whole Allies nonsense is to justify even more future Fluff from the destroyer of canon - Matt Ward.
> 
> If he has anything to do with the new Eldar Codex I will kill the world.


best start stocking up on ammo


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

mynameisgrax said:


> Two things keep bothering me, and I was wondering if anyone else had heard an answer yet:
> 
> 1. If a unit is on overwatch, at what point do they get to shoot the unit that's assaulting them? Is it before or after they roll the dice to charge? Can this prevent the assault from succeeding?
> 
> ...


1) During the Assault phase, you start with a Charges sub-phase. Choose one unit, declare a charge (or multi-charge) with that unit. Any unit that you declared against then gets to decide if it wants to Overwatch fire. Then you roll for assault distance AFTER resolving the Overwatch fire, so yes, it could stop an assault from succeeding.

2) You have to take casualties from the models closest to the models attacking at that initiative step first. If they are equal distance, the player who controls the unit gets to choose.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Orochi said:


> If he has anything to do with the new Eldar Codex I will kill the world.


Wardism = Upgrading the army for power at the cost of it's soul

Although, as an eldar player, I say - Bring on Matt Ward!:biggrin:

We need somthing of this level to be competetive! I want super howling scorpions with warp jump generators! Fire reapers with swooping hawk wings! and an avatar that will be as hard as Mephiston! :laugh:


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

This games finesse disappears with every passing day


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

maddermax said:


> 1) During the Assault phase, you start with a Charges sub-phase. Choose one unit, declare a charge (or multi-charge) with that unit. Any unit that you declared against then gets to decide if it wants to Overwatch fire. Then you roll for assault distance AFTER resolving the Overwatch fire, so yes, it could stop an assault from succeeding.
> 
> 2) You have to take casualties from the models closest to the models attacking at that initiative step first. If they are equal distance, the player who controls the unit gets to choose.


1. Thank you

2. But how does that effect unit leaders? What if they have a higher toughness or better save then the rest of the unit?


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## XT-1984 (Aug 23, 2011)

mynameisgrax said:


> 1. Thank you
> 
> 2. But how does that effect unit leaders? What if they have a higher toughness or better save then the rest of the unit?


Unit Leaders and Independant Characters get a 'Look out Sir!' rule. So I'd guess that you roll to Hit with your shooting, your oppoenent rolls their 'Look out Sir!' and then roll to Wound after you see whats been hit.

If they're not a Character perhaps there will be a rule stating you take the units majority Toughness and Armour Save and use that. Would keep it simple and stop abuse.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Joking aside, I'd like more 'ambush' style tactics to be possible.

I mean I have 6 WWs painted up for my Ulthwe for a reason, and a turn 3/4 appearing act is getting a little tame. I would like some actual strategy to be possible.

The idea of Fortifications will hopefully bring some tactical use to the battlefield rather than just 'Fortress of Redemption on the home base'.

I think it'll probably be a fair shout that a lot of tournies/clubs will clamp down on the madness that is 'Allies' or bring out rules of their own to help stem the tide of bullshit.

A Guard army along side a squad of Chaos marines, Sorcerer and defiler sounds very good to me.
A Grey Knight army with 2 squads of 30 Ork Boyz to make up numbers does not.


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