# "they're ruining the mystery!"



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I believe quite a few fans would like BL to refrain from exploring the HH in too much detail, out of fear that all the mysteries would be revealed

Well, in my humble opinion, these folks can simply preserve the mystery in their own heads by disregarding/refraining from reading certain books 
They can simply disregard these books as they would ignore disagreeable fanfiction...

EDIT: Now, I understand that official publications are much harder than fanfiction to ignore. Canon is what is most commonly discussed in fluff threads. If BL publishes a string of excruciatingly bad novels, fans would be up in arms and rightfully so. I wouldn't argue that fans should just disregard poor quality products. After all, consumers have a right to demand quality. However, if a fan simply doesn't want certain aspects of the Heresy to be touched upon _regardless of whether the exploration is done well_, Id' say that person is being a bit selfish.


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I agree. And I think BL is doing it slow enough to where it doesn't ruin the so called mystery. 

But I also think there have been some very bad quality fluff presented most recently. I am specifically talking about the last two Heresy Novels. My balls dropped after reading some of that shit. :shok:


----------



## bobss (May 18, 2008)

To be fair, the number of people who do _not_ want to the Horus Heresy to be given life beyond several paragraphs in a Codex are much less numerous than they was when Horus Rising was released. Since then the number of people opposed to the expansion of the 30k lore has steadily decreased. It might have risen during the releases of Battle for the Abyss or likewise books that are generally viewed as mediocre by the community, but overall it's steadily decreasing.

I'll wait for Dead.Blue.Clown to confirm it, but I think Black Library's Horus Heresy series is considered canon. Whether that was the case from the beginning - who knows? But it would expalin the radical changes in things such as Legion size and how most, newer, novels adhere to these figures. 

Maybe the series' popularity is proportional to the series' canonical merit?

I've seen _some_ well thought out arguments against the development of 30k lore, but they're few and far between. Personally, I think they're weak and are often rife with personal bias. After all, you _can't_ argue an opinion objectively. And within the realms of subjectivity, the majority's opinion is better to follow than the minority.

To reiterate, I've seen a few plausible arguments against Black Library's purpose, but they all share the same personal bias and, frankly, butthurt. If every novel was the quality of Battle for the Abyss or Nemesis, or the mind-boggling irrelevance of Descent of Angels, then I'd be more inclined to agree with the minority's general consensus. However, novels such as Horus Rising, False Gods, Fulgrim, Legion, Mechanicum, A Thousand Sons, The First Heretic, Prospero Burns and, dare I say The Outcast Dead despite the time-lapse error allow me to conclusively say: _Hell no_.


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Personally I think it is great that they are revealing finally after so long many of what was written about the HH. Some of these myteries have been around for so long that now the mystery has grown stale and boring, such as the case of the two missing primarchs and the origin of the GK, its time they tell these stories and just invent new fluff to think about...

People hate change and have issues with it, but they will soon come around and embrace change.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> I agree. And I think BL is doing it slow enough to where it doesn't ruin the so called mystery.
> 
> But I also think there have been some very bad quality fluff presented most recently. I am specifically talking about the last two Heresy Novels. My balls dropped after reading some of that shit. :shok:


yeah, the level of quality is definitely a legitimate concern 

I understand a demand for quality 
Either the HH series is done well (a few exceptions allowable) or not at all 

I don't agree with those who want "to preserve the mystery" by leaving things vague


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Want to preserve the mystery? Don't read the damn books, not rocket science. 

People who complain about the 'mystery of the Heresy' being ruined need, in my humblest opinion, a high five.......to the face........with a chair.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

how about if the story of the two missing primarchs was tackled by one of the more popular authours, say Abnett or ADB...would you guys think "oh dear me no, they're ruining the mystery" 

I for one would be ecstatic, and to those who wouldn't like it, you can always ignore/not buy the books!

this actually brings me to the question, are there really mysteries that should truly remain mysteries?
that is to say, _any_ sort of exploration of the mystery would be worse than leaving it blank

i.e. the Emperor's life, the War in Heaven, etc.


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> how about if the story of the two missing primarchs was tackled by one of the more popular authours, say Abnett or ADB...would you guys think "oh dear me no, they're ruining the mystery"
> 
> I for one would be ecstatic, and to those who wouldn't like it, you can always ignore/not buy the books!
> 
> ...


That animal is a different concern. There's a lot of people who think a lot of fluff would be changed, including opinion, about the Heresy, if all of a sudden they appeared. I personally think they could create a lot of positives if they revealed a little more about what happened with the lost primarchs and legions. I think the fact that they are almost treated like ancient history gives every mention of them a bit of awesomeness. Somehow, BL would have to keep it that way, but they could still reveal more about them.


----------



## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

i think there have to be some mysteries, dont get me wrong I'm curious about the missing primarchs, but if everything was clear cut their would be no room for manoveur, plus the books create new mysteries and fresh debate

For example, to me, I reckon russ got lucky beating Magnus, that his stroke was a blind shot, that just happened to catch magnus in the eye, that Magnus was also tearing apart a large part of his legion at the same time and that if his full attention had been directed at the wolf king, he probably would have sent him howling away with a singed tail between his legs. I know gen.ahab and euphrati strongly disagree.

I am a son of Magnus to the core, they are my favourite legion, hence the unashamedly biased opinion. 

That being said I think somethings have to remain a mystery, i think the missing primarchs beyond subtle hints and backhanded remarks need to be a mystery, to give us the freedom to wonder.

if everything was clear cut, would we have these debates, would their be such a colourful range of opinions, no chance. Their has to be scope for mystery rumour and doubt in order to keep it going and keep the enthusiasm going. 

I think that with the mysteries they remove from their shroud the black library do an excellent job of keeping a scope of doubt, I couldn't ask for more, clarity embroiled within doubt, keeps the speculation and debate fresh.

I'm starting to think the bl are alpha legionnaires.... :stinker:

That being said, what massive mysteries have they as of yet unveiled, not many, well not of what I've read, and I'm a little behind at the moment, currently deeply embroiled in the world of fantasy.


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Even if they were to reveal it all, people will still debate the fluff regardless. I don''t feel everything should be revealed.

Take the missing primarchs for example, this mystery has been there since 40k's birth and well I think its time we actually know who they are and what they did to become ousted by the Imperium. I'm not saying throw them into the current mix, but they can continue to be treated like ancient history, just tell who they were.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

deathbringer said:


> For example, to me, I reckon russ got lucky beating Magnus, that his stroke was a blind shot, that just happened to catch magnus in the eye, that Magnus was also tearing apart a large part of his legion at the same time and that if his full attention had been directed at the wolf king, he probably would have sent him howling away with a singed tail between his legs. I know gen.ahab and euphrati strongly disagree.
> 
> I am a son of Magnus to the core, they are my favourite legion, hence the unashamedly biased opinion.






> Ahriman looked past the approaching monsters to see Magnus and Russ locked in battle high above the causeway, the furious horror of their struggle obscured by ethereal fire and bursts of lightning. A flare of black light erupted and Russ cried out in agony. His blade lashed out blindly and struck a fateful blow against his foe’s most dreaded weapon: his eye.



well, it seems pretty clear to me that Russ' fateful blow was guided by none other than Tzeentch


----------



## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

I have mixed views on this. On one hand I do think it's silly to not explore things on the basis of thread title (i.e. they're ruining the mystery), but the lost primarchs are something that i'm not really keen on knowing anything else about.

The lost primarchs (and their legions) were originally left blank to allow create-your-own-chapter variants. This is clearly no longer the case. However, their disappeance/death/whatever is touched on so carefully in the HH series that any real exploration of their fates is going to be underwhelming. Additionally, in the HH setting the fates of the lost primarchs, the life and times of the Emperor and the War in Heaven don't have a purpose in being explored. There may be merit in looking into these sort of things in another series, but I think there is enough going on 30-40k to keep the writers busy without going back further in the time line.


----------



## Team7 (Nov 6, 2011)

I think the "mysteries" should continue to be exposed as it keeps everything fresh and new mysteries created. I was never into warhammer as a game and just stumbled upon the books one day. I am completely enthralled with the series and cant get enough. There are so many areas I would love explored such as 20k and the dark age of technology and also the unification of Terra. I think with the expansion of the Horus Heresy we are going to uncover more of the Emperors plan and in so doing need to move past 40k. I would really like to see books based on this come out during Heresy releases as I believe the Horus Heresy is going to last for years, however I hope BL does decide to have a true end to the main series. That doesn't mean authors don't make side stories. I guess what I'm getting at is there is so much room for "mysteries" that the authors should focus on writing a good book and drawing the reader in rather than stepping on toes.


----------

