# is sigmar a primarch?



## primarchXI

im not all that in to warhammer but i read a little about sigmar and he sounds alot like a primarch, is he like a second emperor or am i just bein stupid?


----------



## Hespithe

It actually could make sense it a time warped/parallel universe sorta paradox... but I tend to think the the storyline for Sigmar came before that of the Primarchs... Really, with GW there is simply no telling. The story-lines and fluffy backgrounds tend to shift a bit with each new release. Pretty soon we may find out that the Emperor is really Sigmar reborn in a great time of need. Silly nuggets.


----------



## primarchXI

nothing makes sense anymor!
but the sigmar emperor thing would be kool


----------



## Jacobite

Way back in the depths of time it was hinted that Sigmar was a primarch but its since been written out of the fluff along with Malal, the Star Child and Squats.


----------



## striking scorpion

Yes and it said he will return when the human race needed him most and turn them into a golden age and it was when the emperor showed up so maybe 40k is in the futrea so maybe it is not the same unverise but really the same planet and people


----------



## Vaz

To be honest, the star child theory predicted the end of the world (or galaxy) would occur when the Emperor arose from his golden throne.

Sigmar was considered lost, but after finding Valten, the reincarnation of the Emperor, the next thing that happened was the Storm Of Chaos. There is some parrallel there.


----------



## Hespithe

A parallel, or a lack of imagination on the part of that campaigns development team. I've heard it said by GW persons that there is NO correlation between the WHFB world and the 40K universe, but there are just too many obvious similarities for that to be believed.


----------



## Red Orc

That may be true now, but it wasn't always the case. At the time of RT and 3rd Ed WHFB (and 1st Ed WFRPS), the background (and indeed games systems) was closely tied together.

While some things have moved on/diverged (no more Space Frogs for instance, orcs are 'mammalian' while orks are now fungoid), others haven't. Ulthwe/Ulthuan is a case in point. It's not just a co-incidence, they are related. The Chaos Gods even more so: they're not just related, they're the same.

So while GW might be currently playing down the connections, there are historic connections in the fluff. It may well be that Sigmar was (at one point) 'secretly' considered as a Primarch. It's certainly a theory that's been aired before.


----------



## malekith

The history of the old world matches very closely indeed with the 40k universe, even to this day with current fluff, the old ones ''disapearance'' matches in both games. i would go as far to say that, in fact, the warhammer world is a planet within the 40k universe, some hidden backwater used by the old ones to bear there new labours. that being the creation of psykers / wizards, to battle the star gods or c'tan. on this basis alone its entirely possible that sigmar is one of the primarchs, that somehow fell on the warhammer planet wherever that may lie.

some things do change fluff wise, but this is fairly consistent, largly in part that the necron book is not as old as the sigmar fluff, this would indicate that they WANT to imply the connection.

GW ey, bet they dont even know......


----------



## angels of fire

This could explain the 2 and 11 primarch and why he dissapeared the Emperor found him and took him away but that also doesn't explain why the planet wasn't colinized.


----------



## Red Orc

I think the idea was something like Warhammer World is stuck in a permenent warp-storm (is it supposed to be in the Eye of Terror?) so it has never been contacted by the Imperium - Sigmar was just 'fulfilling his destiny' by creating a mini-empire - but the Chaos Wastes allow ?Chaos Space Marines to go there...

Something like that.

:cyclops, honest:


----------



## Luciferi

If he turned out to be one of the two missing Primarchs I think that'd be quite kool.
In the end it's up to GW to create the general story.


----------



## Skorch

it was official that sigmar was a primach, and that the twin tailed comet was the landing hcraft he arrived in. There were even items that characters could get in warhammer that were form warhammer 40,000 like power first, lightning claws and boltguns. The old world was located in the eye of terror. However, this fluff was changed some years ago. GW officially stating that the warhammer and warhammer 40,000 worlds are two of their own.


----------



## swntzu

There was the gauntlet of power (power fist) and claw of devastation (lightning claw) but I don't recall seeing a boltgun.

As you say, this is a moot point because GW changed the background at some point.


----------



## Red Orc

Oh yeah, Amazons had bolt guns and 'Old Slann Power Rods' (energy weapons) in the mid-80s, before RT was even out, and before Dwarves (or the Empire) had any gun smaller than a cannon. The idea was that they were 'ancient technology' found at 'transmat sites', a bit like web-way portals.

My first '40k' mini was an Amazon with a bolt gun. I used her as an IG scout, or occasionally as a rebel guerilla...


----------



## Lucius Vane

I don't recall very well, but wasn't there a Warhammer story where someone recieved a dream or vision from a chaos entity surrounded by massive warriors that sounded suspiciously like Fulgrim and a group of Emperor's Children?


----------



## vindur

The old world was at one stage meant to be one of the Eldar maiden worlds and i was hinted that sigmar may have been a primarch. Chaos lords (in fantasy)back in the day could have plasma pistols and power armour. It has since been retconned that they are seperate universes so there is no longer a connection and the similarities are just that.


----------



## lightmonkey

Ya they could just be using the same stuff to make it easy to come up with stuff.


----------



## swntzu

Yep. Now lack of imagination seems to be the excuse for the similarities. :grin:


----------



## Red Orc

No, really, the reason for the similarities was they wanted to do Warhammer in Space...

Fact is, it was delayed 3 years because they had to spend that long getting it to _fit in_ with Warhammer, Rick Priestly had written rules for 'Rogue Trader' in '84 IIRC.

Arguing it's lack of imagination is like saying "Ice _hockey_? But we already _have_ hockey, on grass! Really, can you not come up with a _new_ game?"


----------



## swntzu

Red Orc said:


> Arguing it's lack of imagination is like saying "Ice _hockey_? But we already _have_ hockey, on grass! Really, can you not come up with a _new_ game?"


Why don't they have lacrosse on ice?


----------



## Ludoldus

Or even better.... Warhammer 40k Tournaments on Ice! yes, i can see it now... space marines on tiny ice skates...:biggrin:

thats pretty interesting how they actually had that written into the background fluff... obviously they just had to change it to include all new races etc... still, interesting to think that Fantasy is really a backwater world in Imperium- sorta gives you an insight into how bad the Dark ages really were :shok:


----------



## Lucius Vane

vindur said:


> It has since been retconned that they are seperate universes so there is no longer a connection and the similarities are just that.


They can try to hide it all they want, but we know the truth. :biggrin:


----------



## Jase

now i may be stupid here, but this conversation comes up a lot in store (i don't know why) but i was always under the impression that Uriah Jacobus...








was actually meant to be magnus the pious, former emperor?


----------



## daemonhammer

im so confused


----------



## jakkie

warhammer is confusing - thats why i love it!
but perhaps it is just a little _too_ consfusing!


----------



## shammus_the_scout

I always thought that Warhammer Fantasy was set on a daemon world in the Eye of Terror, and Sigmar was a primarch.


----------



## Morgal

shammus_the_scout said:


> I always thought that Warhammer Fantasy was set on a daemon world in the Eye of Terror, and Sigmar was a primarch.


I do as well, I really like the 2 being connected as long as it's not overdone and 40k items are super super rare in fantasy(ie power glove)
It just fits.

I also like to think sigmar left because he felt the emeror's death, triggering his relization of who he was and is currently doing something to save him from within the warp...maybe high fiving leman russ along the way.


----------



## malekith

not even GW can seriously say they are unrelated universes ? the old ones connection is relative to both universes in every piece of fluff theyve written in the last decade. the fluff is very precise in this. It would be interesting to try and match the timelines on this basis, 
if the time between the old ones going (in FB) too the arrival of sigmar matches the time between the old ones going (40k),and the creation of the primarchs. its pretty much a given he is a primarch.

GW can deny this, but as long as they continue to tie these things together,they cant claim they are different. perhaps this is to save on questions they cant answer. after all,its easier for a store monkey to say that,than actually think about or in most cases,make up answer.


----------



## Red Orc

The Sigmar-is-a-Primarch, Daemon-world-Eye-of-Terror thing came about in about '87, when they were simultaneously working on Realm of Chaos, Rogur Trader, Woofrups and WHFB III. They came up with a huge intergrated background to tie it all together, because they wanted RT to be "Warhammer in Space".

I think they later found out that there were problems with tying them too closely together; so they began to seperate them out again. But now they're 're-doing' Realm of Chaos (or so it seems to me, with the parallel Daemon lists)... so go figure...


----------

