# Battle Missions.



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

In this issue: Incoming! Battle Missions

Incoming! Battle Missions

Coming in March, Battle Missions is a brand-new supplement for Warhammer 40,000 that expands on the basic missions found in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. Each of the thirty-something scenarios detailed in Battle Missions has been designed to allow you to fight the sort of battles normally the subject of Black Library novels. From daring raids and assassinations, to breakthroughs and last stands, Battle Missions will allow your army to play in a way that reflects its background. No matter what Warhammer 40,000 army you collect this exciting new supplement will open up a whole new gaming experience.

Of course it just wouldn't be the same if there weren't some great new miniatures to fight through these missions with. Fortunately, there will be new sets for Space Marines, Orks and the Imperial Guard released alongside Battle Missions in March.
Battle Missions


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## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

Just received the newsletter too, and i'm very interested by the Hive Tyrant in the background of the photo....








I don't know if this is the rumoured plastic hive tyrant, but I don't think so. Every piece of this model comes from the tyrant or the fex sets, except (maybe) the horn on his head...


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Sounds damn sweet...even though my regular group play similar games via homemade campaigns.

New IG minis...I wonder if this is the new Artillery Vehicles like Hydras etc...even though I don't need any.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Dies Irae said:


> Just received the newsletter too, and i'm very interested by the Hive Tyrant in the background of the photo....
> 
> I don't know if this is the rumoured plastic hive tyrant, but I don't think so. Every piece of this model comes from the tyrant or the fex sets, except (maybe) the horn on his head...


Nah, that's not a plastic one, unless it's a plastic one that looks exactly the same.
The horn is always there on the metal one, and the Deathspitters, Devourers, Barbed Strangler, and Venom cannon for the Tyrant are all on the same sprue, and that sprue is shared with the Carnifex and Tyrant.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Dies Irae said:


> Just received the newsletter too, and i'm very interested by the Hive Tyrant in the background of the photo....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
That's the current Hive Tyrant model, which is mostly metal, but does include the Carnifex weapons sprue for the arms. There have been no sightings of a new model, or anything from Games Workshop that indicate there's one coming (including the advance orders for retailers.)


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

That Bassie has the new Chimera hull...slimmer engine/track mechanisms cover.


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## jackd334 (May 25, 2009)

Dmn  I ws just this minute gunna post that lol. Im wandering if it could be the new storm troopers for IG, dunno about the rest though. Looking forward to seeing the new minis. And, i like theew way GW are painting their nids, less bright colours more like, bio/natural.


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## Dar'kir (Jul 11, 2009)

sounds cool, anyone have any ideas as to what is comin out for marines??


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Dar'kir said:


> sounds cool, anyone have any ideas as to what is comin out for marines??


Well, let's look at which units don't have models yet:


Alright, that was productive.
Now let's look at kits that are missing rather important options:

Dreadnought.
Venerable Dreadnought.
Razorback.
Captain (come on GW, at LEAST give him a right-handed Lightning Claw...)
Land Raider (classic outfit, missing Multi-Melta)
Tactical Squad (melee weapons, basically)

So, I think that a Dreadnought/Venerable Dreadnought (ie: mk IV) kit with all weapon options is very much in order.
I also think that a weapons pack is in order, filling all the gaps in what you want for your dudes but just can't get a hold of easily, oh, and combi-flamers, which don't have a model.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

''There shalt not be a new Hive Tyrant''

End off. As posted in `Nid rumours Alessio Thinga-ma-bobbie said that the Forgeworld one will have to do if you want a Flyrant, and the GW one if you want a Tyrant.

As for this missions thing, then for fucks sake, why? we already have mainstream 40k, Apocalypse, Planetstrike and Citys of Death(?). Im gonna agree with the supporters of other specialists systems, for once, why not share some of the love on other systems?


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

The new scenario book sounds good, but really I'm excited about that new Basilisk, hopefully it will have parts to produce the other IG artillery pieces, as my list has a Medusa in it.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

This can be of huge win, or of huge fail. I prefer to hope the first, that GW finally has realized that the shitty KP system doesnt work and bring back proper Victory Points:biggrin:


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## Sytus (Aug 27, 2009)

Sounds like an interesting oppurtunity to release more of the big armies...
To be fair,I do like the idea,and the new kits may be quite good...
But what models will they release for marines and orks?A plastic venerable dread?Deffkoptas?


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Holy Dogshit, Marry mother of Hotdogs!!!!

Ive just realised (Duh!!!) the 'next' wave of Imperial Guard, which yours truly posted a week back is actually for this?! aka, new Basilisk Kit, New Stormtroopers, Hydra, MAYBE even a Manticore!


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

well i hope one of the space marine kits is a terminator commander or command squad,i guess we will see recut pred and razor back cant see them splashing out on a third plastic dread but an upgrade sprue via mail order may be an option.
I think we will see the ork buggies and scorchas, they are in the most need of replacing and we have seen cad shots of them,might get some kans in plastic too? or maybe mega nobs and plastic warlord, plenty of stuff still needs moving to plastic in the orc range.
Guards second wave seems pretty solid considering the new sprue lay outs for the tanks and the green we have seen of the vets.
March is usually a good release time as it kinda kick starts the year after Christmas and leads into Easter holidays, which is one of the primary times kids get more disposable income than normal.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Don't forget we're still missing a couple of Leman Russ variants, in addition to the majority of the Artillery (Griffon, Hydra, Manticore, Deathstrike, Medusa, et al). New Stormies with sensibly marketed Special weapons would be a plus. Actual Vet models is very nice too.

I agree a plastic Warboss is a "very probable" candidate for Orks, and we can hope for a "Wartrakk" box, with options for Skorcha/Big Shootas/Every other gun option.

Possibly plastic Kans or Dreads... they're way behind the curve on that one, Marines have had a plastic Dread for a long time now, and £35 for an Ork Dread just doesn't cut it. Possibly a £30 box with parts for 3x Plastic Kans in it? Probably hoping too much.

Space Marines... Seriously, I never swear that much but;

Would you STOP THAT SHIT ALREADY??

Marines are the only Codex, the ONLY codex with 4th Ed and onwards models for EVERY SINGLE squad / unit / character in the Codex. The majority of which are in plastic. Apart from maybe a Techmarine on a bike. There is NOTHING to release for them that does not already have a perfectly serviceable model or is piss easy to kitbash.

Release some -ing models for armies that desperately need them for a change.


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## Andizzo (Feb 9, 2008)

marines.... probably legion of the damned maybe????


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Andizzo said:


> marines.... probably legion of the damned maybe????


they come out in january


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

i stopped collecting marines because i didn't need to convert anything, space marines have been having new releases almost continually for at least five months


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## flankman (Jan 26, 2009)

maby they can give khan his bike this time >.>


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## Brt. Maximilian (Jun 5, 2008)

This new codex, well, i liked the idea, but what will it bring something new to us? I play wh 40k since the 3th edition, in my collection are the two old rulebooks, full of missions. Also, with some brainwork, you can make your own...

But new minis, that sounds very good. I hope for more than just another tankbox for IG, hopefully plastic Stormtroopers. For Marines, what about the rumored Plastic Thunderhawk? And Orks have enough Minis to recreate, so there is a great place to fill.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

flankman said:


> maby they can give khan his bike this time >.>


Nah, it always looks better when such a spectacle model is custom-made.


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

i really doubt they will make a plastic thunder hawk its in the imperial arour books not codex so it will probably stay resin


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Space Marines, Guard, Orks, pah!

When are the new Chaos Marine minatures coming out? Where's their second wave?

Normally I wouldn't complain, but ever since Games Workshop started releasing new models apart from the codices I've been waiting for some more Chaos models.

Now okay we did get a few new models such as Huron and the revamped Posessed, but where's the plastic dread? Berserkers with the modern powerpacks? Vindicators that aren't just the Space marine model with Chaos accessories thrown in? Finally where's the plastic Daemon Prince?

The same goes for the Tau and Eldar, not to mention the other less frequented ranges. Since we've been told that the design studio have a fair bit of liberty to come up with new models, can't we see some that aren't from the more obvious cashcows?


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> but where's the plastic dread?


With the vast array of Chaos Dred kits/extra`s you can purchase from Forgeworld, I wouldn`t be complaining 

Of course Spess Muhreens will get some kits, and Orks, who lets face it, are becoming the *new* green, Space Marines will too. I just hope Guard get some nice bitz, or even actual Tanks for all the awesome stuff that isn`t in model form, or is currently in resin form. (I would actually die if they did a Deathstrike Missle Launcher )


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

spess mehreens! I second The Sullen One, where are the CSM?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

bobss said:


> (I would actually die if they did a Deathstrike Missle Launcher )


Yes, yes you would.
*presses big red button*


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

New IG Artillery; proof that there is a God and that he hates my wallet having any money in it.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

bishop5 said:


> New IG Artillery; proof that there is a God and that he hates my wallet having any money in it.


:cray:
I really wanna make a joke about that, but it's racist...


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

i think GW needs to put marines to the side for now and do some chaos marines, i agree with the plastic dread for chaos, i know theres forgeworld dreads but they can be quite expensive, plus theres no generic dread, i wouldnt mind seeing plastic obliterators, bloody annoying to put together, but we'll just have to put up with more marines, but what the hell can they release now, a plastic chaplin kit?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

yanlou said:


> plus theres no generic dread


There's a reason for that you know.
When Chaos separated, they took a bum-load of dudes with them, which included dreadnoughts.
Back then, they were still using Mk IV Dreadnoughts, rather than the present Mk V model.

Oh sure, they could always steal them and put their own dudes in them, but they're much more likely to just use the ones they brought with them, because they're more common in the Chaos arsenal, and therefore easier to duplicate.


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## Gog (May 27, 2009)

If its mission based units im hoping for some plastic Kommandos for orks, will probably be Deffkoptas tho as they already have a good plastic modles for them.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Ive just heard knews that SM`s have a good chance of getting a Plastic Thunderhawk.


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm sick of the marine bashing. Granted I think it would be nice to see new models for some of the other races in the 40k universe, but GW are a company and have expenses to cover and shareholders to keep happy, so naturally they're going to produce new kits for what sells best. And as far as SM not having anything left to produce goes, there's heaps of stuff they could do. The Terminator Captain is in dire need of and update, so is the Chaplain on a bike, there's no Librarian on a bike, no Korsaro Khan on a bike, no heavy flamer wielding sternguard model, no MotF with conversion beamer, and the dreanought kit doesn't even come with half of the weapons it's capable of taking. I'm excited to see what GW will release for SM, but what I'm really looking forward to is the IG stuff.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

The problem is that it's a self for-filling prophecy. If you bring lots of cool models out for one particular race your increasing the chance that someone will like the look of a couple of the models and decide to collect them. The alien races get a pathetic amount of attention.

Sorry about this I didn't mean to go off topic. I just wanted to put in my usual sarcastic anti SM comment.


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

Winterous said:


> There's a reason for that you know.
> When Chaos separated, they took a bum-load of dudes with them, which included dreadnoughts.
> Back then, they were still using Mk IV Dreadnoughts, rather than the present Mk V model.
> 
> Oh sure, they could always steal them and put their own dudes in them, but they're much more likely to just use the ones they brought with them, because they're more common in the Chaos arsenal, and therefore easier to duplicate.


opps should have said it more clearly what i ment was, a plan dread like the mk IV that forgeworld has, for more customization,


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Maybe I'm just weird, but I cannot comprehend why everyone's talking about new models when there's a brand new book full of *new missions* to play. We've been stuck with the same three boring missions since 5th came out. Everyone complained about wanting more of them and now that they're coming, nobody cares..? I must confess that I just don't get it.

I for one don't really care about the new models compared to a ton of fun new missions to play.

Katie D


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Maybe I'm just weird, but I cannot comprehend why everyone's talking about new models when there's a brand new book full of *new missions* to play. We've been stuck with the same three boring missions since 5th came out. Everyone complained about wanting more of them and now that they're coming, nobody cares..? I must confess that I just don't get it.
> 
> I for one don't really care about the new models compared to a ton of fun new missions to play.
> 
> Katie D


its probably because its relatively easy to create a mission or campaign but far harder to fill the model gaps in most army lists.


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## Haraldrr (Jan 29, 2008)

I dont understand why people dont realise this stuff, but GW make choices in the codex with no models so people CONVERT THIER OWN. I personally think this makes the hobby all the more interesting, i would rather see a homemade model that nobody else is going to have than a generic model for the choice that everyone you see will no doubt have.
On a sidenote, why do people keep bashing space marines,sure they get all the updates, but they are the ones that most of the kids playing start off with, so you have to keep them appealing.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Maybe I'm just weird, but I cannot comprehend why everyone's talking about new models when there's a brand new book full of *new missions* to play. We've been stuck with the same three boring missions since 5th came out. Everyone complained about wanting more of them and now that they're coming, nobody cares..? I must confess that I just don't get it.
> 
> I for one don't really care about the new models compared to a ton of fun new missions to play.
> 
> Katie D


That's the spirit Katie!
The new book ought to be good as, by the sound of it there'll be special rules for each army to make the battle more flavourful, like Tyranids having WON and IG having off-board artillery, for example.

Ok bad example, but you know what I mean I hope 

It ought to make campaigns easier to organise and play, so you don't have to write a custom scenario for every single game.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Winterous said:


> That's the spirit Katie!
> The new book ought to be good as, by the sound of it there'll be special rules for each army to make the battle more flavourful, like Tyranids having WON and IG having off-board artillery, for example.
> 
> Ok bad example, but you know what I mean I hope
> ...


I guess I'm just excited because since this book is written by Games Workshop I might be able to convince my group to play the missions inside. They won't touch anything by BOLS or anyone other than GW. Let me tell ya - Annihilation Missions with Dawn of War deployment (the most commonly rolled scenario) are getting a little old.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

I'm hoping they bring out a futile last stand/rear guard style mission- where you WILL be obliterated as the defender but your objective is simply to delay the attacker for as long as possible. Love playing those sort of missions because the defender can get into the atmosphere and take insane risks to 'win', if you have nothing to lose then you can do anything :victory:

On the model note- maybe they'll release a Terminator Captain in a similar manner to the current multi optioned Chaos Terminator Lord (I hope so at least).


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## Broguts (Jul 15, 2009)

oh my fucking God! this could mean there's a new plastic warboss


WOOO!


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Oh joy more new minis for SM just what the games needs... what about CSM, Daemons, Eldar, DE, Necrons, Witch Hunters, Daemon Hunters, Tau etc etc etc


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

don't worry im sure someone will get around to killing the ultramarines primarch wich from some other thread took over gw and is stopping it from making anything other than smurfs 

in other words i agree bring out other races


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Kale Hellas said:


> don't worry im sure someone will get around to killing the ultramarines primarch wich from some other thread took over gw and is stopping it from making anything other than smurfs
> 
> in other words i agree bring out other races


Err, Guilliman is already dead.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Winterous said:


> Err, Guilliman is already dead.


Way to completely miss the joke. :laugh:


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

yay someone understood


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## Dar'kir (Jul 11, 2009)

Blue Liger said:


> Oh joy more new minis for SM just what the games needs... what about CSM, Daemons, Eldar, DE, Necrons, Witch Hunters, Daemon Hunters, Tau etc etc etc


i play chaos, and i just kit bash or convert whatever i need to make my models look and feel unique. i mean the only thing we are really missing is an updated dread, but u can just convert ur own. as for the other armies, couldnt tell ya, but i will say... Who cares about deamon hunters, really, most armies i have seen are either all grey knights or just as allies in some other force.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Way to completely miss the joke. :laugh:


O_.
I don't understand D:


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Dar'kir said:


> Who cares about deamon hunters, really, most armies i have seen are either all grey knights or just as allies in some other force.


Maybe the people who play them care, and they have as much right to get some love from GW as any other army out there.

Apparently work as started on an update for them and WH so it's all good.


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

Winterous said:


> O_.
> I don't understand D:


Well in another thread someone came up with the idea guilleman took over games workshop and thats why all games workshop makes is space marines


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Kale Hellas said:


> Well in another thread someone came up with the idea guilleman took over games workshop and thats why all games workshop makes is space marines


Aah.
*chuckle*

He is in a stasis field, he could have been zombified 
ZOMBIE CEO!


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

yeah lets hope he doesn't zombiefy them all then all they will do is make space marines and even then only smurfs :russianroulette:


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> CONVERT THIER OWN.


Really? So your telling me that Space Marines have models for practically all, if not ALL their codex entries in good standard plastic model form _just_ because they are not very good for converting? And that armies like Daemons have alot of entries with no existing models, or metal or crappy older edition metal? _just_ because GW want people to convert there own?

Now I agree that some entries should never have *been* made into model form, as it puts off large numbers of people from converting. Such cases are the Ork Battlewagon, alot of Ork stuff, and other stuff (you know what? I cba to write a list its so long ) 

On the other hand, as much as I would love to build or buy resin of a Imperial Guard Manticore, theres no point, because as much as I love my own creation, it will never stand up to that made by GW.

Simple fact is this. GW have favorites. Like a shitty teacher, and makes it blatantly obvious. This is because it is a company that is designed to make money (Although it is a bit to "Metallica" for my liking, id prefer more "Iron Maiden") and as all companys do, it preys on the noobdem of kids. So of course SM, Orks(these guys are seriously getting arselicked atm) and Guard - although my defence for guard is that they have ALOT of vehicles missing - are going to get new models.


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## Rye (Sep 22, 2009)

Oh this sounds great. I hope by "IG" minis they bring in those plastic Stormies. If I'm going to buy suicide squads, they better be cheaper...

I am sort of skeptical on how this will work. I mean sure, in "Black Library" novels you see the puny little Guardsmen running amuck making messes of things, but in game terms that wouldn't work. I'd get this purely out of curiosity and see if there's anything new and interesting they brought up.

Plus, these new supplements always have some interesting fluff.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

GW sells a RIDICULOUS amount of Space Mahreen models BECAUSE every single conversation with a new customer goes like this:

Customer: Hey, this looks kinda cool. What is it?
GW: Well, take for example this starter set; it's Space Marines, super-human-ultra-hard-armor-clad-white-caucasian-male-killing machines versus Orks. You play as one of the sides against an opponent.
C: Oh, cool. So what's everything else in the store?
GW: Well there's Fantasy, which is like bows and arrows, and LotR, which is for children.
C: Oh, ok. What about these other guys with guns and stuff?
GW: Oh, they're some other races for the super-human-ultra-hard-armor-clad-white-caucasian-male-killing machines to beat up.
C: Alright, so where would I start?
GW: Well you need the AoBR box, which is REALLY good value for money, it gives you all you need to play against someone else for the special scenarios in the box.
C: Ok, but what about other games?
GW: Well you'd need to expand your army a bit, so for example this box of Tactical Marines...

And the guy walks out the store with AoBR, a Rhino, a Tac squad (and if the GW staff member is on form, a Battleforce or something). Plus paints etc etc.

I have yet to see a GW staff member introduce a new player to ANYTHING except Marines. Whenever someone walks in, they are greeted by a shelf full of marines, not *right* next to the door (because GW doesn't want people stopping there and blocking the doorway, also people are more psychologically likely to walk fully into a room) but rather 2-3 meters in from the door. And they never get any further, because a staff member basically pins them to the wall right next to the Marines, and has the above conversation.

If GW *wanted* to sell more of ANY OTHER Product, they could do it very easily. For example specifying in their monthly team brief or whatever that newcomers should be shown the FULL RANGE of potential armies, not just Marines, and sometimes Orks.

And as for saying "Marines need more models, eg. X-Y-Z" the models are either HQ models which are INCREDIBLY easy to convert (Get the basic model and either put a Jump pack on it, or make it stand in the empty side car of an attack bike) or are dreadnought weapons that are £8 each from FW. Yes, a little pricey, but hardly bank-breaking.

On the other hand you have races FULL of models that have not been TOUCHED since 2nd or 3rd Edition, or are missing army list options in the first place. For example, Eldar (since I know them best).

Wraithguard: £10 per model for an infantry squad. 2nd Ed.
Jetbikes: 2nd Ed
Falcon: 2nd Ed
Fire Prism: 2nd Ed
Warp Spiders: 2nd Ed
Shining Spears: 3rd Ed
Every Single Special Character but Yriel: 2nd Ed
Avatar: 2nd Ed
Vypers: 2nd Ed

And Eldar are a reasonably popular army (despite me being the only player in my area). That's even BEFORE you consider Armies like Sisters of Battle who have NO PLASTIC MODELS. Of ANY kind.

And you still say Marines deserve more models? Uh-huh. Never mind that they insist on holding releases every 4 months for a "New" chapter, when in fact most of the Chapters are so bloody inbred that the only difference is the colour scheme, and you can build a perfectly valid army of Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templars et al with standard Smurf models + a reasonably sized bitz box. Release a new Codex for them, fine, but don't give us even more Marine models...

With regards to the new missions, frankly, I can whip up a balanced (or more fun, not so balanced) game in 30 mins. We're currently playtesting the rules for a 500pt Battle where you have to try to steal a prototype tank and get it off the table while fighting off the enemy trying to do the same (if you ever played the UT3 Assault mission where you have to steal the tank, you'll know how it works). I don't know why I should pay £15 for a book full of stuff I can do myself.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Spot on Sethis. It takes no massive feat of imagination to think up a mission yourself, its only now, with an actual supplement, that people will be more willing to play it.

And as for GW staff taking advantage of new Customers, its disgusting, to be frank.

I saw some poor women, walk into my GW about a week ago, and she simply said to the guy '' Space Marines '', it was obviously a Christmas run. Anyway, this guy walks over to, were? oh yes, the Assault on Black Reach starter set, goes on forever about it, then persuades the women into getting a ton of other crap for Orks, like extra boyz, lootas, and a battleforce, and then even has a crack at selling the Stompa....


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Agreed. As nice as new missions are I'm not paying $35 AUS for a book that I could download for free.

And it's not that selling noobs Spess Mehreens is a bad thing. Keep in mind they are a very forgiving army to start off with. They're tough, they're pretty balanced between assault and shooting and most importantly they're 8 foot, completely heterosexual, white men who live in chapels full of men (and yes I am implying they like it rough from men with hairy bumholes.). What better army to introduce the little turds to 40k (and sexually confuse them at the same time.). 

It's just the blatant disregard for other armies in favour of Spess Mehreens that annoys me. Now whenever I see a DE, Cron, Tau, DH and SoB players I just feel sorry for them (including myself).


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## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Hmm, I'm sort of excited about this as a concept. Though I will agree the Marines have plenty of models even though most of my units are Marines, granted the Angels are missing at least one model out of their codex. Though since most players happen to be human I could understand them gravitating toward the marines, though I wouldn't mind if the next edition starter had something like Witch Hunters, or was sans humans entirely, though I wonder if that would make the game look a bit more abstract to potential players.

I just wonder if half of these amazing scenarios are going to be lifted out of the 3rd edition manual, which is usually what I look at since the 5th editions scenario selection is pretty bare bones.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Just for the record it's newbs not noobs- you dont like Space Marines, well no one cares, but don't tar everyone who does with this judgemental brush of yours.

Sethis- you really have a crappy lcoal GW don't you? What with your rant here and the 'Vets banned from GW' thread, I feel sorry for you as my own local GW is nothing like that.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> Just for the record it's newbs not noobs- you dont like Space Marines, well no one cares, but don't tar everyone who does with this judgemental brush of yours.


Wtf? is this aimed at me? if not, then ignore this lol, if so then fuck have I done wrong? newbs, noobs, same thing, once probably more PC/Xbox/PS related but nonetheless they are the same. And people obviously *do* give a shit about the favoritism of SM detailing there own annoyance at this in their posts, but like I _said_ GW`s a company, so I really dont care, as moaning does nothing? as long as other forces get some nice stuff, which, me being a Guard player, im happy with, and this new book seems like a good idea, although personnaly, im only getting it for the new Artwork, new pieces of fluff, etc etc, because you can come up with your own missions anyday, and I still havent even gotten into Planetstrike yet


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

It was actually aimed at anyone who considers new starters idiots and Space Marines to be the idiot choice.

Newb- someone new to the hobby, not necessarily very good at the hobby but genuinely attempting to get better.

Noob- prat.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> It was actually aimed at anyone who considers new starters idiots and Space Marines to be the idiot choice.
> 
> Newb- someone new to the hobby, not necessarily very good at the hobby but genuinely attempting to get better.
> 
> Noob- prat.


You know what? you`ve made me sound like a right prick  and im glad you haven`t taken my rant to heart  Of course SM are a good starter army. Even I started with them, my previous rant was from my... ''experience'' at my local GW.


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## DaafiejjXD (Jun 22, 2009)

Haven't everyone started with/or once played with SM??? I would like to know who didn't(even I started with them).


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

DaafiejjXD said:


> Haven't everyone started with/or once played with SM??? I would like to know who didn't(even I started with them).


I started with Chaos Marines. Does that count?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

I started with Eldar and moved onto Space Marines after 3 years


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> I started with Chaos Marines. Does that count?


Yes. I'm pretty sure everyone starts off with MEQ armies, they're the best way to learn. Don't get me wrong MEQ armies are by no means easy to use, it's just they're 'easy to learn, hard to master'. Armies like Eldar, Tau and Necrons on the other hand are hard to learn and hard to master (My Tau still get there asses kick by even a semi-competent player).

One of my friends started off as DE... Yeah we used to mop the floor with his army, poor guy quit after a while. :cray:



Baron Spikey said:


> I started with Eldar and moved onto Space Marines after 3 years


Very impressive. I still can't play well with anything, other than my CSMs, and even then my wins=loses.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> One of my friends started off as DE... Yeah we used to mop the floor with his army, poor guy quit after a while. :cray:


Yeah, same here. He didn't play for years, then got back into the game, started a 13th Company army only to have it invalidated by GW. Needless to say, he quit again.


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## Jisko888 (Mar 13, 2009)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> One of my friends started off as DE... Yeah we used to mop the floor with his army, poor guy quit after a while. :cray:


Thus the reason GW likes to start people off with Spess Mahreens. If all you do every time you play is loose (like my buddies eldar did before I showed him what he was doing wrong) you're not likely to come back and buy more models. GW knows that once you get into the game, you're pretty likely to expand into different armies to get the feel of other playstyles. (You people who play only one army forever are the exception, not the rule  )


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

My choice of Eldar wasn't that impressive, my mates collected Blood Angels/Imperial Guard, Orks/Tyranids, and Chaos so it was a choice of Eldar or Dark Eldar (this being before Tau, Necrons or the Inquisition books came out)- didnt do too badly with them to be honest though bt in the end I preferred the look and background of the Space Marines so I switched over just before I went to Uni.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I started with Eldar. I'm, um... still playing Eldar  Although I did have a 4 year gap (4th Edition) where I sold all my models after moving to Uni.

And the conversation when I very first saw a GW and got interested was something like this (for comparison to the previous SM rant):

Me: Um, hi.
GW: Hi there! How're you doing? etc.
Me: Um, I'm good. What do you do with all the pretty models?
GW: We play games with them! You wanna try one?
Me: Um, sure?
GW: You want to be Orks or Humans?

*Game happens* - On a side note, something else I've noticed: Staff members will very rarely initiate a game now. Customers actually have to ask to play, even new guys. Otherwise the staff member will just try to sell them stuff and kick them out.

Me: Well that was, um, fun!
GW: Do you think you might want to collect some then?
Me: Sure... what do you think I should start with?
GW: Well, what do you like the look of?
Me: What are these?
GW: They're Chaos! They're like the Marines, but evil and spikey and raargh!!
Me: Um, ok. What about these?
GW: Eldar? They're like Space Elves, but less gay (he actually said that).
Me: They're pretty...

*Buys 6 Guardians with Lasguns*

Note the all important (psychologically speaking) "What do you like the look of?". Not even "These are best for beginners" or "These guys are easy to use/paint" but rather "What do you like?". If you don't LIKE something, you're not going to waste lots of money collecting it long-term, and you're going to get bored quickly of painting it.

If GW made every army approximately equally feasible to play, then I think we would have a lot more interesting battles.

Regarding the idea that Marines are "Iconic", they're only Iconic because GW have MADE them so. A starter box could just as easily (and more in keeping with the flavour of the universe) contain any of the following:

Grey Knights/SoB versus Chaos
Imperial Guard versus Orks
Imperial Guard versus Tyranids

And be just as representative (if not more so) than Space Marines vs Bad guys like we've had since 2nd Edition.

I think the best Starter army is the one that the person feels the most affinity for.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

The annoying thing is that GW would sell more Xeno models if they updated the ranges. I have a CSM EC army, Slaanesh Daemons, Slaanesh Traitor guard and Bad Moon ork armies, I was about to start an eldar army but when I found out how much it would cost to use large units of Wraithguard as I love them, I decided against it.
I am now starting a SM flesh tearer army but decided to only use Ebay 
If we could get plastic Wraithguard at a good price I would jump on the eldar train as they are so different to my other armies.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

I started with Nids and played only Nids till now. Sure I'm starting SPace Wolves, but that has nothing to do with them being marines at all, they're space vikings who fight like wolves, HELL YEAH!


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## Salahaldin (Aug 15, 2009)

I agree with ChaosRedCorsairLord, people like the space marines because they themselves are humans, and so naturally want to be on the human side, but still want something a little science-fictiony. Hey, there's some genetically modified humans which are humanity's primary defenders-SPACE MARINES BATTLEFORCE, PLEASE! What I really hate is the whole hype over Ultramarines, and the fact that everyone starts with an Ultramarine paintjob. I still can't belive that the new codex has NO FLUFF whatsoever about the Imperial Fists. Astral Knights? Their last stand. Iron Hands? Purging an entire system, hell yeah. Imperial Fists, one of the main chapters, one of the twenty pre-heresy chapters? Lysander's escape....

Mother...


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

i find it quite amusing that we, as a community, are so underwhelmed and/or uninspired by the idea of a scenarios book that we struggle to keep a dedicated discussion about it going for more than a couple of posts.

i seriously hope that the book is more than a rehash of the scenarios found in the back of 3rd Ed. those scenarios were cool and made for fun games, but required a lot of pregame organisation and it just meant that people would generally ignore the majority of them. don't get me wrong i'd like there to be some of those style scenarios, but i'd also like something a bit more dynamic. the random objective scenario generator (that i believe was in WD, but was on the web for a long time) is a much better example of this. it wasn't perfect and it required players to bring 2 objective markers along with their army, but that is not significantly different from the situation we have now, and yet it produced some much more entertaining games. lets hope this new book is split into sections covering a variety of types of scenario, rather than simply being a collection of the one kind.

on a slightly different tack, i remember JJ mentioning this book quite a while back. have we heard anything else about its contents since? do we have any idea what will be in it beyond speculation?



Winterous said:


> So, I think that a Dreadnought/Venerable Dreadnought (ie: mk IV) kit with all weapon options is very much in order.


now that ou come to mention it; before Planet Strike was released, a source told me that there were models for both Iron Clads and Venerables already made up, and just waiting for an appropriate production time. he was a bit gutted when it was decided that only the Iron Clad would make an appearence then because he thought that the Venerable was the best model GW had done so far.

now, i have no idea what the model looks like or whether it will be released alongside this new book, but as my friend actually laid eyes on and picked up the model, i have no reason to doubt that there is a genuine model wainting in the wings.



Sethis said:


> Possibly plastic Kans or Dreads... they're way behind the curve on that one, Marines have had a plastic Dread for a long time now


erm, i'm not sure you've got enough statistics to be working with for that particular analogy. granted SM have Dreads and Iron Clads, Eldar have Wraithlords and War Walkers, but what does everyone else have? in fact, when you compare the Ork Dredz and Killakanz with the CSM Dread, they are relatively bang up to date!

(ok, maybe you can count IG Sentinals as well, but DE Talos and SoB Penitent Engines balance that out).



Kale Hellas said:


> i really doubt they will make a plastic thunder hawk its in the imperial arour books not codex so it will probably stay resin


unlike the Baneblade?

i don't think they'll do a plastic TH any time soon, but for a different (better?) reason. i don't think they'll do one because they realised that it was a dumb idea to invest in big kits that had a very small market, when they could be investing in a number of smaller kits with a bigger market and a higher mark-up. so until the vast majority of units are plastic and there are a number of upgrades in plastic, we won't be seeing a Thunder Hawk (unless GW loose their marbles).



yanlou said:


> i wouldnt mind seeing plastic obliterators, bloody annoying to put together, but we'll just have to put up with more marines, but what the hell can they release now, a plastic chaplin kit?


plastic Master of the Forge? not really very necessary, but seriously... how friggin' cool would that be!



Winterous said:


> There's a reason for that you know.
> When Chaos separated, they took a bum-load of dudes with them, which included dreadnoughts.
> Back then, they were still using Mk IV Dreadnoughts, rather than the present Mk V model.


no they weren't, they were using those gay looking 'Chuck' things. the Mark IV was retrospectively introduced by FW, but couldn't possibly have been used in the Heresy, because we already knew what was bing used at the time. the depictions of Dreadnoughts in the HH CCG are closer to the dreads that the Traitor Legions should have, but i don't know whether those have an 'official' mark yet.

eitherway, i really don't see why that is a logical argument against a non-Legion, non-god specific Chaos Dreadnought. though perhaps it would be particularly nice to have a Chaos version of the Mark V (for Renegade Chapters) and a Chaos version of the Mark IV or earlier (for Traitor Legions).



tu_shan82 said:


> I'm sick of the marine bashing. Granted I think it would be nice to see new models for some of the other races in the 40k universe, but GW are a company and have expenses to cover and shareholders to keep happy, so naturally they're going to produce new kits for what sells best.


i'm not keen on Marine-bashing either, but i have to say that that was a pretty appalling argument if you wanted to try and win people over. i'm not a share holder and i couldn't give a crap about GW's overheads. i'm a gamer and those things really don't concern me, they are GW's problems.

the real reason why we should be thankful for a constant supply of new Marine models is very simple. they rock. everyone loves Marines. even those of us that like to pass around the hate, on some, deep, deep, dark level love Marines. that's why they are successful. sure, every other opponent being a Marine player can get a bit tedious, but the simple fact of the matter is that 40k without Marines would be significantly less cool. Marine models are some of the best wargames models in the world. their rules are simple and yet sophisticated. their background is uncluttered (unlike the Necrons and Grey Knights) and yet ultimately engaging. they are just flat out cool.

i doubt seriously there are many of us that have not collected Power Armoured men at some point in our gaming careers (and no one that has not considered it). and who here would complain if GW produced a 'veterans' sprue that had the various different marks of PA on it? it would sell faster than they could put it on the shelves.


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## Kinglopey (Sep 10, 2008)

As a SOB and DE player (What can I say I pick armies by their chances of NOT getting an update) I can say that Marines get the Love, even in supplements like Planet Strike or Apocalypse, they get more SA or Specific Stratagems.

I understand you can "Make Your Own" but a lot of times groups have issues with those types of rules like Katie said they want to see it in Print.

I however was glad for a specific Marine Blister that came out, although it was Metal, the Marine Casualty Pack.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Soooooo...

To try to stear this back on the "Battle Mission" subject instead of retarded "buhuhu my army doesnt get new toys but his does" trash talking here's my hope:

KP dies. Its the most retarded way of deciding game outcomes ever, burn in righteous fire:so_happy:
VP is reintroduced as that is the only real fair way of deciding outcomes of games anyway:so_happy:
A fixed system for converting Objectives into VPs so they fit into the table perhaps too...


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

MaidenManiac said:


> VP is reintroduced as that is the only real fair way of deciding outcomes of games anyway:so_happy:


that is absolutely ridiculous!

there are hundreds of prefectly good ways of creating completely fair scenarios that pay absolutely no credit to VPs in any way shape and form. and many of them produce infinitely more dynamic and exciting games than the 'who can shoot more stuff than the other guy' games that are encouraged by VPs.

what about scenarios in which the attacker has to move their army to a specific place on the board (or off it) and the defender has to prevent them from doing so? what about games that require the attacker to destroy an objective or position held by the defender? what about games that require armies to compete to claim objectives? the list could go on and on and none of them require VPs to be fair or interesting.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

MaidenManiac said:


> KP dies. Its the most retarded way of deciding game outcomes ever, burn in righteous fire:so_happy:


Wraung!
I love saying that :biggrin:

Anyway, KP, although they make NO sense, were a way to heavily balance a LOT of parts of the game.
Previously, there were VERY few reasons to not take minimum squads of things like Gaunts and Guardians, or even IG platoons.
Now there IS a reason, and that's because the more units you have, the worse off you are in 1/3 of standard games.


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## primeministersinsiter (May 31, 2009)

I started an IG and then moved to SM and might move back into IG.
I think the battle missions look like a good idea. Way less gimicky than Planetstrike.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

No reason not too? I disagree. You only have a certain number of FOC slots and min sized squads are easier to take out, hence you lose your special weapons quicker, or lose a unit before it can do anything.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

will the new book have more "strategem" things?


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

@ World Eater XII: i don't think any of us can say with any certainy at this point, however, i would personally say that it seems unlikely. unlike Cities of Death, Apocalypse and Planetstrike, it doesn't look like this book is designed to expand the basic rules for some other function, merely to present a number of new scenarios that can be used with the existing rules.

that being said, its quite possible that the individual scenarios might have special rules that allow players to a choice. maybe there will be markers that denote specific terrain peices or maybe there will be a choice of objectives in certain missions, both of which could give certain buffs (like in CoD). however, as i said before, i think it will be unlikely though. my guess is that the scenarios will be fairly rigid in their structure.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I fail to see what the new book can offer when I still have the old mission cards from 3 or 4 editions ago.
The old missions include assassination/ witchhunt rules that are still compatible with todays game guerilla warfare mission and dawn raid are fine if you don't mind using the points system from the last edition and their are a few others that escape me without grabbing the cards.
The best thing about the cards is that both players can have totally different objectives as would 2 contempary armies which adds a different dimension to the tactical game and for friendly games its the best method our gaming group uses there's nothing better than thinking you've won after taking out your opponents leader only to find the games a lot closer because he's got take and hold or amassed loads of points due to guerrila warfare.
I expect at least 1 of our group will get the book and we'll give it a try but it'll need to be good to better the games we're playing at the moment.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

neilbatte said:


> I fail to see what the new book can offer when I still have the old mission cards from 3 or 4 editions ago.
> The old missions include assassination/ witchhunt rules that are still compatible with todays game guerilla warfare mission and dawn raid are fine if you don't mind using the points system from the last edition and their are a few others that escape me without grabbing the cards.
> The best thing about the cards is that both players can have totally different objectives as would 2 contempary armies which adds a different dimension to the tactical game and for friendly games its the best method our gaming group uses there's nothing better than thinking you've won after taking out your opponents leader only to find the games a lot closer because he's got take and hold or amassed loads of points due to guerrila warfare.
> I expect at least 1 of our group will get the book and we'll give it a try but it'll need to be good to better the games we're playing at the moment.


Youre talking about the 2nd ed missioncards, which indeed were brilliant. They were, if my memory serves me correctly not 100 balanced, but thats nothing that not some tinkering could have fixed.
I also love the fact that "back in the good ole days" both players had secret different objectives, and iirc they were secret until after the game, which made it a lot more interesting in many ways:biggrin:

@ Winterous: I will never say that a system that values 1 Rhino as high as 10 kitted out mongonobbikers is good. Period. It must die.

@ Admiral: There are other ways yea, but in the long run everything gets "tie-breaked" with victorypoints anyways, so why not use it in the first place instead? Im not talking your average thursday evening game, but all kinds of tournaments, from the 4 guy saturday-bash to GTs. Naturally missions should affect the gathering of VPs in different ways, like in 2nd as named above. The VP part of my post was a bit short indeed, but at least it got the discussion in the right direction


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Found this one at t3h int3rw3bz, not sure if its posted already:









Kudos to *Brass Scorpion*!


This is one cover I personally like a lot, I personally hope this quality holds up in the future


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

That cover looks awesome.


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## ajchafe (Aug 13, 2009)

To me, this book is the best thing that could happen to 40k, and I hope it is good. Playing army versus army can only be interesting for so long. Having a ton of professionally written scenarios and optional games is a great idea just because it adds variety. I mean, you can make your own rules and crazy scenarios (which is awesome) but now you have a book that can help you do this that's written by the company who made the game, the people who should know it inside and out and can make the rules work 100% of the time.

Also, as for new models I'm hoping for plastic Kommandos. I HATE METAL MODELS but I really want to include Kommandos in my army. Maybe they will just realese a bunch of upgrade packs for all kinds of situations; Turn your Boyz into Kommandos or Stormboyz. Make your Guardsmen into Stormtroopers or maybe a cool veteran pack.

Oh and I love the sound of assassination missions. Would be great for campaigns.


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## Jisko888 (Mar 13, 2009)

ajchafe said:


> I mean, you can make your own rules and crazy scenarios (which is awesome) but now you have a book that can help you do this that's written by the company who made the game, the people who should know it inside and out and can make the rules work 100% of the time.


On this note, its the fact that they're official scenarios is the best part. Sure me and my buddies have written up a few different scenarios and play them on our own time. But play them at our LGS against people I don't know? Or at the GW store? I know if my opponent who I didn't know wanted to play some crazy scenario he'd written up, I'd probably figure he'd tooled his list to have an advantage and would be reluctant. 

Its a book I can pop down on the table and roll for missions. (At least I hope there will be some form of table for randomly determining a mission from it)


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## ajchafe (Aug 13, 2009)

For sure Jisko, thats whats cool about it. Next time they do a world wide event they may even use them, which would be pretty badass. Or what about official tournaments that are based around campaigns or one mission type like Attack and Defense.


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

I love the idea of Plastic Stormtroopers 8D
That and Plastic medusas


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## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

Vanchet said:


> I love the idea of Plastic Stormtroopers 8D
> That and Plastic medusas


Plastic Stormtroopers? There's a big fat I in my future if that becomes a reality...


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Everyone seems to be moaning and bitching about the new SM models, but i don't think anyone has considered thet they may not be generic models. i for one am contemplating the possibility that these could be both generic Space wolves models, such as an update on ragnar blackmane and logan grimnar. i would also hope they release a Rune/Wolf priest kit. Chaos players could quite easily use many SM kits at the minute with a bit of imagination, as i have done with my own CSM.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

Went into my local GW today to pick up a chaplain and got talking to the one of the guys there. Think he was just happy to not have to talk to another mother buying for christmas(store was full of them).
We where talking about my upcoming flesh tearers army and the battle missions.
He told me that he was told that some of the upcoming marine stuff for battle mission will be bitz packs and conversion stuff like the Crimison fists got recently.
Of course take this with a dumper trunk of salt but it does sort of make sense.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Talos said:


> Went into my local GW today to pick up a chaplain and got talking to the one of the guys there. Think he was just happy to not have to talk to another mother buying for christmas(store was full of them).
> We where talking about my upcoming flesh tearers army and the battle missions.
> He told me that he was told that some of the upcoming marine stuff for battle mission will be bitz packs and conversion stuff like the Crimison fists got recently.
> Of course take this with a dumper trunk of salt but it does sort of make sense.


Yeah, it does make sense. When do they release a supplement without models to go with it?


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

Mmmm... plastec stormies...

That is one nice book cover. :shok: 

If the new basalisk is on chimera hull, than I'm going to hazard a guess (foundless wish) that maby they will condence those two vihicles into a single kit like they have been doing. I would love it if they did, since then I could switch them back and forth depending on what I want to do. It would be even cooler if they put some other artillary in the same box with them. It probobly ownt hapen, since they seem to have been mixing boxes for things that come in the same squads, and even if they did it would mean that chimeras got price jacked, but all-in all I would be happy with it. 

New missions... *FUCK-YEAH!!! *


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## Widowmaker666 (Jul 30, 2008)

I'm sick and tired of Marine players complainiing about not having enough stuff. Almost everything can be easily converted and they are the most prodiced army as is.

On the other hand I'm even more annoyed at all the people complaining about the Marine players complaining. GW priduces mostly Marine stuff BECAUSE they are an entry army, very easy to play, basically have to follow a standard layout for your lists (which is sadly now becoming the norm for armies like Guard which are now rather cookie cutter as well, doctrines were really what made guard great.) New players arent as adept at converting and thus need more kits.

Chaos Marines are basically just naughty marines so most of the Marine kits will be fine with just a little green-stuff and a half-way decent imagination. 

Personally i agree that alot of armies need new kits but bitching about it on a forum won't help in the least bit, especially when the thread in particular is not even about Marines getting more stuff, its about the new book.

So lets get back on to the fuckin' topic which is this scenario book, which i think is a great idea. Yes, people can write their own but those often wont be accepted by other gamers unless you know eachother. Also for those who do write their own the book could give them good reference points and ideas because most scratch built scenarios i have seen are atleast slightly lopsided, which is just natural to rig so you will win even if its subconscious.


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## dark angel (Jun 11, 2008)

This sounds great, I shall definatly be taking a look at this, will probably be a great ton of fun, also I hope they release some Chaos Space Marines parts.....Thats what I need now that I am starting Death Guard  on a side note- Are those Guardsmen Vostroyans? They look like to me but I aint the brightest of lads you see:victory:


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

dark angel said:


> This sounds great, I shall definatly be taking a look at this, will probably be a great ton of fun, also I hope they release some Chaos Space Marines parts.....Thats what I need now that I am starting Death Guard  on a side note- Are those Guardsmen Vostroyans? They look like to me but I aint the brightest of lads you see:victory:


Yeah they are Vostroyans.


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

ok, so what have we learned from this months WD?

the book is going to give a couple of scenarios for each race (either against a generic opponent or a specific race, the article didn't make mention of which).

the first thing that occurred to me was that this is going to be an interesting look at what armies GW feel that they are supporting at this moment. although Apocalypse: Reload and Planetstrike have had race specific elements to them they made no commitment to include something for every race, but for the first time GW seem to be commiting to telling us what races are supposed to be in 40k. if the Inquisition are not in it, it could leave a fairly unpleasant taste in the mouths of GK and SoB players.

the second thing that came to mind was, why race specific? what benefit is there in that? the chances are that most people will only really be interested in buying the book for the 3 scenarios that feature narrative around their own races (though of course they will possibly be able to participate as the 'generic other' in battles that revolve around other races). this makes the book sound a lot less interesting to me. yes, i'd love to get the additional background material on all the races, but on mostly it sounds like if i invest in this book, i'm only going to be able to use 6 or so pages of it.

and finally, following on from that, with the at least one race already locked in place, this book looks like its going to simply be a set of scenarios like those featured in the back of 3rd Ed, and sadly there is a reason why they are in 3rd Ed and not 4th and 5th. the scenarios were fun, when you got to use them, but they were actually so much hassle to get organized (you had to make sure you had the right terrain and board, you had to tailor your army to suit the radically different FoC and then you had to paint up miniatures if you found yourself unable to fit into those FoCs) that you would rarely ever get to play one other than on special occasions. that's all well and good, but it has only limited use. a much easier to utilize system was the random scenario generator, that featured on line for quite some time and then paved the way for the Apocalypse, 5th Ed and Planetstrike method of playing (where set-up, and objectives were decided randomly allowing players a huge variety of scenarios with minimal effort). i realise i've said all this before (many times), but whilst it would be great to get another book that i can use when i organise a big game when i get together with gaming buddies i haven't seen for a while, but i'd get a lot more mileage out of a book that i could pull out every Thursday night and not have to play each game two weeks in advance.



Widowmaker666 said:


> I'm sick and tired of Marine players complainiing about not having enough stuff [...] On the other hand I'm even more annoyed at all the people complaining about the Marine players complaining. [...] So lets get back on to the fuckin' topic


er... we already had. if it really annoys you that much, the best way of stopping it is by avoiding it and just sticking to the topic.


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## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

Still have yet to see the latest WD, but I wonder how exactly they're implementing the army-specific side of the missions. Much of the time (save strategems) army-specific means that the idea was based around a certain army, but is not limited to it. You could, for example, use the Harvest mission in the back of the Necron codex for a different race, but you'd need to modify it a bit (quite a bit, perhaps...).

Of course, maybe that's where the speed bump comes into play. Modifying something means getting everyone's approval in a game, and that can be a hassle.

Still, if this is a move away from 4th/5th ed. rulebook-style missions, and back to something older, I'm for it.


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## General. Gray Wolf (Apr 19, 2009)

I'm really looking forward to see what they come up with. I think It will be fun but not reallly needed. Most people in the hobby have an imagination so we can just make our own scenarious. I wonder if they'll be designed for use against other specific races or can be used against any of them? 

New space marine models? Oh well I guess I can convert them to chaos and give them some sort of use. :grin:


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## ninja skills (Aug 4, 2009)

the white dwarf seems to say that as you have 3 missions per race you roll a dice to see which mission you get, half the time it will favour your army half the time it will favour the other and you go from there. it seems good on principle but i'm not sure.

although i bet it won't bee too hard to amend the other missions so you can play with your army


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