# Mind War and Nobz



## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Hey there, I have an upcoming battle against an Eldar player who likes to field Eldrad. Unfortunately, his mind war is very nasty against nobz, usually nuking them due to their crappy leadership. He also fields a retinue with Eldrad which is usually more than capable of dealing with 29 boyz in CC.

So, How do you deal with Eldrar before he starts popping your nobz/warboss/warphead/etc


I was thinking of directing my first couple rounds of fire from my Lootas into them, trying to force some kills. They are an expensive unit so I figure they should be pretty high on my priority list. My lootas will then most likely move on to his wraithlords.

My other idea was to Turbo Boost my nobz at Eldrad, relying on the 3+ save to prevent my warboss from dying. However, his warlocks with their swords will be wounding on 2+, forcing me to make a lot of saves and with them all having 4+ saves, my powerfists are somewhat lackluster. 

My final option was to run a couple of trukks up at Eldrad and to just assault him with a bunch o boyz and nobz and hope to weather his initial attacks.



Thoughts?


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## dopey82 (Jul 8, 2008)

being a fellow ork player that has played against Eldrara I recommend the lootas. use the boys on units you can kill. if he fortunes his own unit they can re role saves and will never die. with the lootas if he fails one save its a instant death and you have a lot of shots.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Well, Eldrad is T4 so no Instant Death for him.... I was mebbe thinking of taking Kans /w rokkits as well... Kill a few off with the Lootas and then hope that a rokkit lands on Eldrad...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Hordes. Hordes, Hordes and Hordes are Eldrads weakness. Seeing as they don't have Armour, I'm not going to say give them Burnas. Take two Mobs of 30, without a Nob, and have the rest just go for the other units - Lootaz should target the Wraithlords - they'll do more damage to none PK Hordes than Eldrad will - and if Eldrad is in CC, then there's no Mind War.


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

I would use the lootas but another fun option to consider would a squad or two of lobbas. You don't need line of sight and even if they are in cover it doesn't give them much help. Eldar in general don't like to get hit.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Vaz said:


> Hordes. Hordes, Hordes and Hordes are Eldrads weakness. Seeing as they don't have Armour, I'm not going to say give them Burnas. Take two Mobs of 30, without a Nob, and have the rest just go for the other units - Lootaz should target the Wraithlords - they'll do more damage to none PK Hordes than Eldrad will - and if Eldrad is in CC, then there's no Mind War.


Actually, I'm pretty sure that Eldrad can use any Psychic Power, EVEN if in CC??? Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

You're wrong on that issue actually. Some powers, like mind war, work like shooting. You can't do that while in CC.

As for dealing with the unit, I'd shoot them. Shoota boyz should be able to do a ton of damage to this unit, even better than lootas point for point. I always used kroot to take down seer councils because it's the best way to make them take a ton of saves.

While you're shooting him he can mind war you all he wants. It won't save him.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

I would caution against running a huge Mob at him, he can cast Eldtrich Storm and with a BS of 5 its going to not scatter far if at all, not to mention DOOM. On top of that if he has a large group of warlock supporting Eldrad then you can expect to run into 3-8 Heavy Flamers (not to mention Doom) and your orks will turn into toasty bits.

You didn't mention it but a lot of people (myself included) like to run some other HQ in the squad, Yirel is often a favorite choice but I have seen Zain Zar and even Kahandras in it to provide some more CC support. I have in one turn (because of proper placement) killed 90 boys with a full 10 man Squad of Warlocks, Eldrad, and Yirel.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

As Ragewind says, sending big mobs of boys at Eldrad and his warlock posse is not a good plan, with or without phoenix lords or yriel. The likelihood of the warlocks having a handful of Destructors against Ork footslogging armies is very high, so you are feeding kill points to your opponent if you try to out melee them.

I would suggest forcing the unit to make lots and lots of saves from shooting, it doesn't take many bad dice on your opponents part to kill of a few locks.


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Mass shooting at them will be a good idea. Just remember that Eldrad has the option to Fortune his Warlocks, which might prevent them from dying too often. 

The best way really is to try and get them into combat TBH. Sure, they have 2+ wounding weapons, but they don't have any other abilites (except for Eldrad) that can hurt the orks. Just mob them and he'll die quick .


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

One word - Boomgun. The Ork MEQ killer will put a Pie Plate of Doom on Eldrad. No Armour Save and Instant Death? What's not to love?

Looted wagons ftw.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Steel Nathan said:


> Mass shooting at them will be a good idea. Just remember that Eldrad has the option to Fortune his Warlocks, which might prevent them from dying too often.
> 
> The best way really is to try and get them into combat TBH. Sure, they have 2+ wounding weapons, but they don't have any other abilites (except for Eldrad) that can hurt the orks. Just mob them and he'll die quick .


That is the point though, if Eldrad is fortuning his mates then he isn't dooming your units, or in this case casting mind war on your nobs. Pointswise if Eldrad and chums spend the battle fortuning themselves and getting shot at by a mob or two of shootas then they are a massive point sink for your opponent.

Trying to get them in to CC is a bad idea though, apart from their high I and 2+ wounding weapons they have the potential to have as many destructor bolts as warlocks. A failed charge equals no more Ork mob, and even with a successful charge winning isn't a certainty.


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

squeek said:


> That is the point though, if Eldrad is fortuning his mates then he isn't dooming your units, or in this case casting mind war on your nobs. Pointswise if Eldrad and chums spend the battle fortuning themselves and getting shot at by a mob or two of shootas then they are a massive point sink for your opponent.


That is true. But just remember that he has the option to use three powers a turn (which one could be used twice :wink 

But yeah, I agree with what you're saying Sqeek .


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Cato Sicarius said:


> One word - Boomgun. The Ork MEQ killer will put a Pie Plate of Doom on Eldrad. No Armour Save and Instant Death? What's not to love?
> 
> Looted wagons ftw.


Eldrad has a 3+ invulnerable and the warlocks have a 4+ invulnerable... AP doesn't matter... The instant death on Eldrad is nice though, if he fails his 3+ Invuln. AND his Fortuned 3+ invuln... Pretty hard to kill actually.



squeek said:


> That is the point though, if Eldrad is fortuning his mates then he isn't dooming your units, or in this case casting mind war on your nobs. Pointswise if Eldrad and chums spend the battle fortuning themselves and getting shot at by a mob or two of shootas then they are a massive point sink for your opponent.
> 
> Trying to get them in to CC is a bad idea though, apart from their high I and 2+ wounding weapons they have the potential to have as many destructor bolts as warlocks. A failed charge equals no more Ork mob, and even with a successful charge winning isn't a certainty.


Well Eldrad can use 3 powers a turn, 2 of the same... I played the match last night and I found a pretty standard combo was fortuning (even a word?) his unit, dooming the unit he wanted to kill, and mind war something he wanted dead (Thank god for cybork bodies and exhaust clouds).



Steel Nathan said:


> That is true. But just remember that he has the option to use three powers a turn (which one could be used twice :wink
> 
> But yeah, I agree with what you're saying Sqeek .


Yeah, what he said!


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

I realise he can cast multiple powers per turn, my point was that if you make him waste a fortune on his little gang and you stay away from them, then he has wasted a chance to cast a mind war or doom and to be in melee trompsing your troops.


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## snuggles (Apr 29, 2008)

use lootas from far away to give them somthing to worry about. this will probably make him hide in a corner or on the other side of the board. close in with killa khans armed with Grotzookas. Grotzookas are awsome and do a great job. then for the final trick poney Take boss snikrot.
Boss Snikrot lets a unit of kommandos come in on any ANY board edge. take 15 boys and have two burnas with them. pin eldrad down and assault him as soon as you come on the board. after shooting his unit with the flamers of course. his 6 s6 attacks should do well vs eldrad and the boys on the charge get 60 attacks at s4.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

squeek said:


> I realise he can cast multiple powers per turn, my point was that if you make him waste a fortune on his little gang and you stay away from them, then he has wasted a chance to cast a mind war or doom and to be in melee trompsing your troops.


Thats not exactly acruate however, He (assuming just warlocks) fortunes his squad at the start of turn, moves, casts doom, and maybe Mind War, then most likley will assualt if in range.

A few things come into play here

They will be hitting at WS 5, meaning he needs 3's for standerd Orks and Nobs, then he wounds on 2's (maybe they are doomed) and then the Orks get a 6+ save. The entire squad might as well be hitting with Power Weapons (oh fyi His hits Ignore Saves) for all the good a 30 boy squad will do.

Incidentally it doesn't matter how many powers he has since he can only cast Mind War and Eldritch Storm one, meaning in the above example he is not out anything. The "Fortune/Doom/ Storm/War" is a standard combo you will see just about anywhere, unless he is relegated to support then you might see "Fortune/Fortune/Guide or Guide/Guide/Fortune"

The reason why a lot of peeps put in say Yirel (or any of the Lords) is because he gets 5 attacks on the charge, hitting on 3 and wounding on 2 and you don't get a save. He can kill Ghaz on the charge easily if he doesn't pass his Invul save, this is so the squad has a much higher killing potential.

On top of that he can cast Fortune/Guide/Doom while stuck in CC so his effectiveness as a support character (and indeed all farseers can do this) is not reduced, so sticking even 60 orks in CC is not very safe, yes shooting is the best but a Boomgun won't cut it, you will need mass fire from either Lootas or Shoota Boyz. The only problem is most Eldar players realize this so the Lootas will be getting some anti-Troop fire 1st turn (Most likely from a FIre Prisim) and the Lootas have to get dangerously close to that Seer council which makes them a risky proposition. 


In a ideal scenario with 10 Warlocks, Eldrad and Yirel vs 180 Ork boys in 30 man squads.

Yirel will leave the squad and engage a squad of 30 (if he is LUCKY he can grab 2 squads for 60). The Warlocks will run up and Multi-Flame another unit most likely killing it, Then Eldrad will doom the squads(s) Yirel is going after. During assault Yirel will use his lolwtfBomb to wipe out 30-60 boys with rerolls on wound, and if the Warlocks charged then that squad is gone as well. Meaning he just dropped 60-90 boyz in one turn with just one unit. 

On the ork players turn ,if he decides to go for the council, Will most likely loose the Squad he sends into CC with the Warlocks, if he sends two (with bad rolls) he runs the risk of loosing 60 more boyz. Going after Yirel is better but since he still has fortune with a 3+ save he stands the chance tying up the orks sent after him, giving the council a turn rejoin and make the unit Uber again. Meaning on the Eldar players turn the unit Engaging Yirel will be wiped out.

So in the span of 1 1/2 turns a unlucky ork player will have lost 150-180 Orks Boys (Shootas or CHoppa) that is of course ignoring whatever else he may have Fielded. 

In other words sending Orks into CC (aganst a tooled out Seer Council) is a High Risk / Low Reward proposition.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

snuggles said:


> close in with killa khans armed with Grotzookas.


Sending in vehicles of any kind against a Seer council is handing over free KP to the Eldar player. Each Warlock has at least 2 attacks at Str 9 vs vehicles, meaning they are all packing Lascannons inside those robes. Flamers would work but since you are basically hitting a small squad 10ish models with rerollable saves this might not do much. Also since those Locks are Int 4(5) they will thin the herd of Orks to a much more manageable degree by the time they strike back. Even a Nob with a PK is useless since they have Invul saves.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Ragewind said:


> In other words sending Orks into CC (aganst a tooled out Seer Council) is a High Risk / Low Reward proposition.


Which was my original point. It seems to have got mixed up in a lot of arguing over what someone misread that someone else mistyped or whatever, but essentially most of us are in agreement that CC vs Eldrad and friends is not a good move compared to shooting them.


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## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

lol i love seer council played elder in 3rd ed had ulthwe army two wraithlords fire prism two gaurdian squads star cannons and seer council never left home with out it bigger points add few other things


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