# Are there neutral or good deamons and could technically be minor chaos gods?



## The Final Frontier (Oct 15, 2011)

My knowledge isn't the best with daemons but obviously most daemons are servants of chaos and gain power either violence or by emotions from mortals. My question is there daemons in the warp not in any of the Chaos Gods service? From what I understand Believe is a powerful emotion so If for example on a planet, If enough people believe that a demonic white warrior will save their village when there attacked by Xeno's, that Demonic white warrior will actually take form and exist and due to this believe, this daemon will grow in power and essentially become a minor Chaos God? Is that possible along with them being Neutral or even Good as long as there "fed" enough?


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## Battman (Nov 2, 2012)

It is certainly an interesting idea, the concept of the chaos gods and their segments (the lesser and greater daemons) is based off very powerful emotions and concepts. The most powerful of these are khorne, tzeentch, slannesh and nurgle. 

But in comparison minor emotions or concepts which are not part of the more major ones are quite less powerful may not even be able to split into lesser beings capable of entering in to material world.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

It has been mentioned in the past that there are lesser Gods in the Chaos pantheon, with Malal, or Malice, being the only one actually named, I think. His main goal was to thwart the schemes of the major gods. He even has a renegade SM chapter dedicated to him. 

Malice | Warhammer 40k | Fandom powered by Wikia


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## The Final Frontier (Oct 15, 2011)

I thought Malice was technically the fifth Chaos God but was stopped being used back int the day over some deal with the writer who created Malice? Does he even have his own demons?

I don't mean they have to be Minor Gods of Chaos, just wondering more than anything else if demons not in the four gods service actually exist and if there not completely bad or neutral, somehow I can't see a daemon being good unless there getting fed ALOT of energy lol


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Generally the amount of energy required to be funneled into the warp in such a specific way to create a new power is pretty high. The Eldar in the youth of their civilization were able to create a pantheon of gods via worship that was guided by the Old Ones specifically for the purpose of creating gods that could combat the c'tan. However, this was the collective will of a powerful civilization in a time where Chaos had a relatively weak hold on the galaxy. 

Whether this could happen on a smaller scale seems debatable. The most common path to power seems to be the patronage of an existing god or daemon, and with the Chaos Gods at this point in time basically feeding off the full spectrum of emotions, it seems unlikely that a new power could be created this way. A more probable outcome would be the attention of an existing daemon masquerading as the proposed deity to bend its new followers to its own ends.


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

Shouldn't the trillions people worshipping the Emperor cause some massive feedback in the warp?


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Romanov77 said:


> Shouldn't the trillions people worshipping the Emperor cause some massive feedback in the warp?


The Emperor protects.

Just look at the acts of faith from the SoBs and the long row of living saints.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Romanov77 said:


> Shouldn't the trillions people worshipping the Emperor cause some massive feedback in the warp?


It's possible, but the ten thousand year time frame doesn't really factor in the millions of years worth of power the Chaos gods have been able to feed off. Also worth mentioning that even if the Emperor is the subject of worship, the myriad of Imperial worlds all interpret the Imperial Creed in different variations. 

On top of this, regardless of worship, all mortal emotion feeds the Chaos Powers. So even if the Emperor is receiving some kind of power boost, all four gods are too.


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## ExaltedUrizen (Jul 26, 2013)

Chaos furies used to be not aligned with any of the chaos gods. From the 5th edition codex: "Furies are made from the souls of mortals that could never decide which of the chaos gods to serve - not because of a genuine love for all fur of them, but from a continuous swaying from the worship of one chaos god to another... When their souls are finally released from their mortal husks, no power claims them - their tragic fate is to be forbidden from entering any of their realms... condemned to be buffeted by the whimsical currents of the immaterium, with no direction and no meaning..." Which makes it sound like you either worship the chaos gods or you don't, and there are no 'in-between' or minor chaos gods that you could worship.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Look at Celestine. Pretty much a daemon of the Emperor inhabiting a flesh puppet, with how she calls down the Emperors will to smite the enemy in a beam of light from on high.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Brother Lucian said:


> Look at Celestine. Pretty much a daemon of the Emperor inhabiting a flesh puppet, with how she calls down the Emperors will to smite the enemy in a beam of light from on high.


There are any number of things that could explain Celestine's abilities. Given the Emperor's aversion to being worshiped as a god, I am inclined to believe her abilities and acts of faith are the result of the heavy presence of faith her vicinity on the battlefield. When she's around, human soldiers of the Imperium believe their victory is assured, they believe an avatar of the Emperor's will is with them and the ripples this could cause in the warp may explain events in her presence. 

There is also the possibility she is a latent psyker or some kind of psychic mutant and her gifts have simply been misinterpreted.


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## The Final Frontier (Oct 15, 2011)

I think the conversation got a bit off task lol

I would find it amusing if enough people believed if they did something bad, little deamons appeared in their milk lol


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

I remember reading around that warp we know is only a fraction of that dimension and that there are many formless primordial "things" floating in its tides who barely acknowledge the existence of us mortals.


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## randian (Feb 26, 2009)

Romanov77 said:


> I remember reading around that warp we know is only a fraction of that dimension and that there are many formless primordial "things" floating in its tides who barely acknowledge the existence of us mortals.


A recent novel (can't remember the name) touched on the idea of the "Deep Warp". Didn't really explain what was there, only that the warp ships transit through is the "Shallow Warp" and that the Deep Warp is almost physically resistant (to the extent anything in the warp can be called "physical") to passage through it. Fulgrim's pleasure planet is said to be "deep in the Eye", I'm not sure how that translates, if at all, to the Deep Warp.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

The answer to this is essentially, it depends on how far back you are willing to go in the game publications. I haven't read any of the new novels, so I'm not up on the current fluff. (I always preferred to relate to it as game history, not "game ongoing soap opera.) The Realms of Chaos books say this rather directly. They describe a number of other lesser gods though they only name one or two. 

In those books the warp is described as a psychic reflection of the material universe. Matter cannot survive there, but the reflections of the emotions of sentient beings collect there. Given enough time and enough concentrated feeling other new gods could emerge. 

Curiously, the original authors cast the warp entities as mostly evil but the original descriptions leave a lot of space for other possibilities. A god of tenderness, or love, or gastronomy, or interior decoration, or fast cars etc. etc. could all exist or be germinating in the warp. There was an earlier view that the emperor was in fact a positive chaos God. After he died, he lived on in the warp growing in power as the spirit of humanity. One of the major questions was, what happens when his body finally dies on the golden throne? Is he dead like all other humans or will he be able to be reborn again or will he be the apotheosis of humanity? 

I hope that helps!


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