# AAAHHH! Berserkers with jump packs!



## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

ok is there anything in the rulebook saying that khorne berserkers cannot have jump packs? I already made and painted a squad of around sixish and they look sick but i want to know if i can use them in GW games in stuff or just friends.


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## Fluff'Ead (Aug 22, 2007)

Counts as Raptors.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Yep, as fluff'ead says, they would be Raptors just give them a Mark of Khorne for an extra level of ass kickyness and that should all be ok.


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## GiftofChaos1234 (Jan 27, 2009)

true story these guys above say the same as the codex, khorne berzerkers are essentially just normal chaos marines who are beefed up and as jump packs were excedingly rare in the traitor legions fluff wise there is no such thing as berzerkers with jump packs (angron also had a dislike for them, i think, if someone can prove or disprove this please fire away)


BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!


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## Micklez (Nov 22, 2008)

I tell u what, if there legal idbe s*****g in my pants rite now. IG dont like berserkers at the best of times. However, as Fluff'ead said, the only real way would be Raptors with Mark of Khorne. Btw, is there a stat difference between beserkers nd raptors?


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

GiftofChaos1234 said:


> true story these guys above say the same as the codex, khorne berzerkers are essentially just normal chaos marines who are beefed up and as jump packs were excedingly rare in the traitor legions fluff wise there is no such thing as berzerkers with jump packs (angron also had a dislike for them, i think, if someone can prove or disprove this please fire away)
> 
> 
> BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!


Not at all certain about this, it's not anything I've read, but I would have thought that Angron would have approved of Raptors. They are CC specialists and can get right in the middle of the fight quickly. I would have thought Angron would have more of a problem with Havocs or other more long range troop types than a group of vicious close combat specialists.
Just my take on the situation, as I said, it's nothing I've read just my opinion.


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## your master (Jun 14, 2008)

Micklez said:


> I tell u what, if there legal idbe s*****g in my pants rite now. IG dont like berserkers at the best of times. However, as Fluff'ead said, the only real way would be Raptors with Mark of Khorne. Btw, is there a stat difference between beserkers nd raptors?


yes beserkers have higher weapon skill and furious charge


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

hhhmmm.....so just call them raptors with the mark of khorne then?


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## vacantghost (Feb 16, 2008)

they would have to go with the stats of a raptor.


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## your master (Jun 14, 2008)

BlackApostleVilhelm said:


> hhhmmm.....so just call them raptors with the mark of khorne then?


Yes or khornate raptors


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

'Zerkers have never been allowed jump packs, unfortunately. The only exception to that was back in 2nd edition. Back then, chaos could pay 50% more for, "post heresy," equipment, and jump packs were post heresy gear (we didn't have raptors back then). And even then, it could only be given to characters. One of my favorites was an exaulted champion of khorne with a jump pack and an axe of Khorne. Killy killy killy...

Fluff wise, I don't recall any berzerkers with jump packs. I'll dig through some of my older stuff and post if I find anything more.


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

sweet cause they look pretty cool but im sure i acan just use them as raptors of khorne. maybe there's a reason why berserkers dont have jump packs, too much blood and death maybe?


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

Being so utterly crazy I doubt them trying to use jump packs would work, they'ld just forget about them, or crush themselves when landing, etc.


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## GiftofChaos1234 (Jan 27, 2009)

thomas2 said:


> Being so utterly crazy I doubt them trying to use jump packs would work, they'ld just forget about them, or crush themselves when landing, etc.


i agree with thomas on that one i mean berzerkers can barely just barley destinguish friend from foe in combat at the best of times


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## LimitingFactor (Jan 11, 2009)

"yes beserkers have higher weapon skill and furious charge."

They are also 'fearless' and are limited in the special equipment they may take.

World Eaters once used jump packs. You could have jet-packed-zerkers, if you model them on a army still in the process of converting to khorne as i am doing .


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

But they wouldn't be Berzerkers-with-jump-packs, they'd be Raptors-using-berzerker-models. Because Berzerkers (unit entry for World Eaters) can't have jump packs, whereas berzerkers (models of Khornate close-combat marines) can be given jump-packs.

Using the Berzerker rules would mean they couldn't have jump-packs; using the jump-packs means that can't have Berzerker rules (and therefore count as Raptors).

:by the book cyclops:


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

if it was a pre-heresy army could they still use berserker rules and said jump packs? they would be considered coherent and they are world eaters.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

As far as I'm concerned, if there isn't a codex entry that says that a unit can have 1-berzerker rules and 2-jump packs, then it can't have both berzerker rules and jump packs - just like there isn't a rule that says Tyrannids can have winged broodlords, Ork players can have psychic warbosses, or marine players can have deep-striking devastators.

Picking one thing means rejecting other things. In this case, picking jump-packs would mean rejecting berzerker special rules.

On the other hand, you could use a different codex. Codex BA has Death Company, who can have jump packs. They could be a pretty convincing Berzerker unit I believe - it's what I do (I use the BA dex for my chaos force - I have a black-armoured unit of chainaxe-wielding berzerkers as my Death Company). Many other Chaos Marine units can be represented using the BA Codex.

Or you could use Codex SM and call your Berzerkers-with-jump-packs Vanguard Veterans. Should still be able to find many corresponding squads in the SM dex.

Only suggestions, and obviously depend on the way I play, which is 1-a pretty strict interpretation of the integrity of a codex, with 2-a lax interpretation of representation. As far as I'm concerned, any Marine codex - BA, BT, CSM, DA, SM or SW - can be used to represent any marine army. A guy in power armour with a boltgun is a guy in power armour with a boltgun, as far as the rules are concerned. The colour of the armour and shape of his hat don't affect the rules.

Hope some of this is helping.

:chaotically sanguine cyclops:


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

sweet thanks for the help. im going to look into the blood angels dex and see how that works out. it should work for a pre-heresy/during heresy world eaters army.


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## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

i got confused at what red orc said, did you mean have zerker models in a sm army? or sm models in a zerker army


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

I have a SM _list_ - in my case, I use Codex Blood Angels - but I have a Chaos _army_, which has 'zerkers in it.

I might need to explain that a bit better.

As far as I'm concerned, a list is a thing in itself. The Codex is 'unbreakable'; if it's legal by the Codex, great, if it's not, not good. So, I have a couple of totally Codex-legal Blood Angels lists.

One of those lists is actually a BA army, with loyalist minis painted red, some of which even have BA iconography (I'm in the process of re-doing them now in fact, in a couple of weeks they all will, I hope...).

The other list, despite being built from the BA Codex, is not for BA, it's a Renegade Chapter. Now, in 4th, Chaos players were told that they could as easily use a loyalist Codex as the Chaos Codex, especially if their Chapter had recently 'gone over'. It's still a Codex-legal BA list, but it's representing a recently-turned Chapter. 

Their organisation is still fairly consistent with the Codex Astartes, except for a bunch of _particularly_ psychotic assault marines who have acquired chainaxes, painted their armour black, and banded together into a suicide-squad. They are represented by Berzerker models, and Death Company rules.

My other squads follow the BA organisation - their armour is red anyway, so apart from being chaos models, they 'look' like BA; tac squads have red helmets (like BA), dev squads have dark green helmets (BA devs have dark blue), assault squads have bone-coloured helmets (BA have yellow), command squads have brass helmets (BA Honour Guard have gold), and my Death Company are black (with small amounts of red), pretty much like BA Death Company. So there's no real confusion about what unit is what - it would be instantly recognisable to any BA player what all my units are.

The major difference between my heraldry and standard BA heraldry is I use green shoulder-pads. In other words, it's _less_ divergent from a standard BA heraldry than either the Blood Drinkers or the Flesh Tearers, which are BA successor chapters.

This is of course to make it easier for people to see what's what. BA armies have red troops and black special assault troops, because it would be unfair to have four identical-looking assault squads, than when they hit the enemy lines suddenly go "oh yeah, that's one's got rending. And that one's got 2 attacks, no you shot up the units that only had 1 attack...". So BA units are readily identifiable. I've made my Chaos units readily identifiable on the same basis. Apart from the different models (where a power-armour guy with bolter model is still representing rules for a power-armour guy with bolter), it "is" a Codex-legal BA army.

As I said before, power-armour is power-armour, a bolter is a bolter, a chainsword is a chainsword; I don't think the shape of someone's hat really alters the rules that much.

:sanguinely chaotic cyclops:


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## Lupercal's Chosen (May 8, 2008)

To be honest i dont think a bezerker could use a jump back considering theyre tendency to throw away everthing and try and bite everything else lol


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## joebob (Dec 15, 2008)

Inflamatory comment deleted -G


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## Ravingbantha (Jan 9, 2009)

1) Not every bezerker is a World Eater, so the rules of Angron do not always apply.

2) I would say that after 10,000 years of Marines going rouge it's more then likely that their is a good chance the raptor ranks have been boosted abit. While your Assault bezerkers may not necessarly be some of the Origional traitors, it still should not hamper your decision. The restriction on 0-1 raptor squad wsa removed for a reason.


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