# Necron codex wish list



## Commander_Culln (Jul 6, 2009)

I loved squidboy's idea of having a wishlist for an army. So i thought I would honour him by nicking his idea and changing it to his worst enemy!

Anyway in a new necron codex (c'mon they gotta do it sometime) I would like to see:

-more troops.
-more HQ's
-more fluff
-more everything!
-plastic Pariahs
-Pariahs with necron special rule
-plastic tomb spyders
- set of destroyers
-new blisters

So what do you guys think!


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Pariahs. Will. Not. Be. Plastic. Ever.

Immortals and Flayed ones, maybe, but not Pariahs.

It would be like making Dark Eldar Incubi in plastic...


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## Commander_Culln (Jul 6, 2009)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Pariahs. Will. Not. Be. Plastic. Ever.
> 
> Immortals and Flayed ones, maybe, but not Pariahs.
> 
> It would be like making Dark Eldar Incubi in plastic...


I see...

Any other suggestions?


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I'm gonna say much like SM have I'd like to see the warrior plastic kit maybe come with an upgrade sprue to make the warriors into immortals.

(P.S. there are soo many of these threads for necrons around so people may not respond to it as much)


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## CerberusDWR (Jun 12, 2009)

How about a better rule than phase out, and some kind of model with an AV besides the Monolith.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Pariahs. Will. Not. Be. Plastic. Ever.
> 
> Immortals and Flayed ones, maybe, but not Pariahs.
> 
> It would be like making Dark Eldar Incubi in plastic...


Why the hell not!

All they have to do is remove the 0-1 limit (which GW want to do in general anyway) and each army can take 30! Chances are they will probably re-write most of the way the army works so who knows.


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## Innsmouth (Mar 16, 2009)

New and more C'Tan. 
Make Scarabs a Troops Choice and not fast attack.


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## DeathTyrant (Aug 23, 2009)

More variety really. Something bigger than a Heavy Destroyer/Tomb Spyder, but smaller than a Monolith. Maybe a big Wraith 'on steroids'?


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Make the Necrons an interesting army to play, not the current "move, shoot, rez, move, shoot, rez...". Thats why I didn't start with them, they're just boring to play and can have only one kind of army that works. I'm a fan of diversity. Oh, and plus pretty much everything that had been said so far.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Just a new codex. With clear rules (no silly ones like Phase Out). Up-to-date references and USRs instead of all the bespoke stuff that gets people confused.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

darklove said:


> Just a new codex. With clear rules (no silly ones like Phase Out). Up-to-date references and USRs instead of all the bespoke stuff that gets people confused.


what he said
+ nothing more .... except..... maybe...

I would like to see some plastic flayed ones though I am sure I can convert warriors with no problems but it is not as much work to reconstruct a flayed one out of a warrior than to just glue the sprues together :grin:

anything else is fine imho


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## Praxiss (Aug 13, 2009)

ok.....

Wraiths with rending/power weapons (with price hike obviously)

Plastic Immortals kit (i woudl be happy with 5 for £15)
Plastic Tomb Spiders
Plastic Lord kit w/ more options & gear (different cloaks/staffs etc)
Detroyer pack (3 to a pack woudl be fine)
Plastic Flayed Ones kit.

Different weapon/upgrade options fro warriors (some sort of gauss launcher for example as an added anti-armour gun)
An armour option other than a monolith (a mini-lith for example)




£500 of GW vouchers to anyone who already owns a necron army. Sounds fair to me anyway.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Realistically...

The Lord wont change, the Destroyer lord kit is fine and GW havent done one of those plastic HQ boxes, with loads of variants for ages so they`ll either leave it, or do some more metals

C`tan, well id rather they scrapped C`tan, giving us some nice lord options slapped them into Apocalypse and gave them some ass-kicking rules / stats

Elites? well im pretty sure it`ll be the good `ol '' 5 in a box '' although im betting one of them gets done '' betting on flayed ones of pariahs - they need it more ''

Troops? warriors are fine, maybe give it more diversity

Fast Attack? Destroyers are Ok as it is.... and... oh, OH get the f*** away from my Wraiths! keep them metal so us converters can convert them and make them look cool

HS - Mono looks cool, tomb spider plastic would be awesome and heavy destroyer... well maybe a all round destroyer kit to make both options + lord, or it that one bridge to far?

To be realistcally honest I dont really want much to change, I love Necrons as they are an army that have very few models and you have to convert for some originallity, which is awesome.



> £500 of GW vouchers to anyone who already owns a necron army. Sounds fair to me anyway.Also Games Workshop Stores


why not? and every tau player gets his choice of crisis battlesuit weapon options piss-taken by the store manager ( seriously, this happened to me, go f*** yourself with plasma rifle and missle pod! )


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## The Odd One (Sep 15, 2009)

Right:

- HQ: MORE LORD OPTIONS!!

- Elites: Fine models, Plastic kits for Immortals and Flayed Ones.

- Troops: Warriors to have more weaponry, and Scarabs as Troops

- Fast Attack: Wraiths to have better rules. Rending wepoans.

- Heavy Support: Monoliths are fine. Tomb Spyders need Plastic. Heavy Destroyers to have more choice for Weapons.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

darklove said:


> Why the hell not!
> 
> All they have to do is remove the 0-1 limit (which GW want to do in general anyway) and each army can take 30! Chances are they will probably re-write most of the way the army works so who knows.


They'd rather make them bodyguard/retinue only. Meaning only one unit per lord. Which is not enough to turn them plastic as far as sales go. Yes, GW wants sales, but they sure as HELL don't want to imbalance the game by giving Necrons the ability to have 50<% of their army in Pariahs. It's Imba, unfluffy, and in general bad practice.


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## f74 (Mar 21, 2008)

What about a Necron Super heavy?


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## N0rdicNinja (Sep 17, 2008)

Most have been stated already but I shall throw my list out there:

- I think Flayed One's should be moved to troop choices.

- Allow wraiths to ignore armour in some fashion, I don't even care how, I think Rending would be a perfect supplement.

- Give me more incentive to take Pariahs... make them I4, or give them 2 attacks, or make them Necrons... any one of the above would allow me to field them more effectively, right now they're glorified Immortals that can't WBB and have a nifty combat trick in Soulless. And while it's a fun ability to abuse, it's hard to justify at that point cost, and no opponent is dumb enough to allow them anywhere near his Termie squad filled with Power Fists. I want to like the Pariahs so much, really I do! ;_;

- Make them tough without being complete Meq rip offs, increased toughness with lower AS I think would help make them a more unique force. So far suggestions I've seen have been T5 with 4+ save and one that I thought could be even more interesting is T6 with no save what so ever.

- More then 1 (non special character) HQ choice would certainly be nice, would certainly help spice things up a bit.

- Maybe I'm weird but I actually like the Phase Out rule, it's extremely fluffy and makes Necrons like no other force. Sure it's a handicap but it also balances the WBB, without PO units would cost quite a bit more. So even if they change the way it works (like making it based on individual units instead of the army as a whole) I hope it's included in some fashion.

- A new vehicle would be nice, something to take other then the Monolith. I've liked the Obelisk rumors that have been floating about the interwebs, I think it would be a perfect fit.

I certainly do have more, but I shall stop there for now =P


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## Commander Frostwave (Oct 18, 2009)

The Void Dragon and The outsider should be brought in. Also more wargear is reqired. I mean Necrons are supposedly more techy than Eldar. Well they might as well use it then!!. Morescary units wouldbe cool too


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Whatever it is the Necrons need, they need more of it. They are too limited. But making Pariah swarms is just going to do damage.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Lets get serious for a moment.

GW, before they do any of the things above, are going to update (i.e. rewrite) the Necron fluff (quoting Jervis at Games Day UK last month).
With new fluff anything is possible, but any units in the codex will need to fit to the overall way that GW want the Necrons to be part of the 40k saga. Once they decide the fluff they will look at any new models that are needed to support it. Once they have the models they will start looking at the game aspects, mechanics and balance.

Until we know more about the way the fluff will change it is very hard to say what rule or model changes there should be. Maybe we should discuss possible fluff changes instead?


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## Commander_Culln (Jul 6, 2009)

f74 said:


> What about a Necron Super heavy?


Whoa! What was that??


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Want.Big.Monolith.With.Bits.Of.Lego.Now...


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## ninja skills (Aug 4, 2009)

as darklove said look at more current fluff. the space marine codex mentions a gauss seige cannon in the fall on damnos story (don't own the codex so can't give a page number) that could be anything from a small monolith to a giant heavy destroyer. also named and tierd lords have mentioned so highly customisable lords seems quite possible as they would be the simplest way to get monre indevidual character into the army.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

- Customisable Lords
- More Troops choices
- Pariahs; either Necron or cheaper, whichever.
- Power Weapons on Wraiths
- WBB changed to FNP
- Artillery of some sort


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## N0rdicNinja (Sep 17, 2008)

Now this might really be wish listing, but I like the sound of Pariahs being able to act as squad leaders for the foot slogging 'Crons. Even if that was the only thing they changed about them I would probably use them then. Everyone of your units benefiting from soulless? Hell yah I'll take it!


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

FOR GODS SAKE!
Do not change WBB to FNP ....
There is jsut one word that comes in my mind when thinking about this idea:
BOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNG
and unfluffy!

esspecially the WBB makes playing necrons so interresting for me ... and I would hate it being screwed to a louse general special rule...


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

If they do replace WBB with FNP it will be with tweaks cause by the res orb and monlith much like it is now.

Notice how WBB is ignored by sweeping advances, power weapons and instant death (not sure on AP 1 and 2 but anything like that is usually ID)

Notice also how FNP is ignored by sweeping advances, power weapons, instant death including ap 1 and 2.

Noyt much difference between the 2 only difference is a res orb/ momlith anbd othe necs help out WBB by allowing it more often - big hint they more than likely will tweak necrons to act in the same way with FNP by saying the res orb allows it no matter these circumstances and monlith can reroll them, etc..., won't be much different stop the whining.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

WBB ignores AP1 and 2 ... only armour igrnoring in CC denys WBB ... 

and it is a lot different if my Necrons stand up again or simply deny a wound .... its about the game-feeling ... so stop telling my to stop whining ... do you play Necrons? I guess not or you would know what I talk about!

so don't offend me with this "stop whining" stuff as it is for me one mayor feature that makes Necrons me liking them!

they die... they come back next round ... different story than 
they almost die ... a doctor comes around and stitches them together again ...
wait necrons have no doctor... necrons are not followers of nurgle ...
Necrons ar badass robots that can be killed... but they can repair themselves the next round and then join maybe a different unit ...whole different story and different game dynamics than the boring FNP

You are right ... the result might be the same almost ... but it is just not the same... not for me!


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

i can't say i play against Necrons all that often and i've only ever played a couple of games with them, but i have poured over their codex and can say what would make them more appealing to me personally:

- give Necron Lord the options to upgrade, either along the lines of specialism (similar in principle to a Eldar Autarch) e.g. Immortal Lord, Flayed-One Lord or Pariah Lord (check out the Therian Overseer from Rackham for inspirtation), or along the lines of function, as hinted at in the 5th Ed rulebook and the datasheets in Apoc.

- a Tombspyder Lord. something along the lines of the Nerubian hero character from WoW. i see it as being constructed to be in charge whilst the Nercons slumber in their tombs. it could have funky abilities like resurrecting Tombspyders or teleporting them from the otherside of the board to being next to itself.

- generally lots more wargear and weapon options. the Necrons are supposed to be the undesputed masters of technology, and yet they have the most limited pallet of equipment around.

- Flayed-Ones, Destroyers and Immortals become Troops choices if taken at certain sizes. Scarabs become Troops, allowing you to play with a non-Necron 'Tomb Attentants' army. i would consider making Pariahs troops choices for background purposes, showing that the Pariah technology was becoming more prevelant in the race. however, it that was just not viable, then i would do the same as with the other specialist units.

- a heavy support Tombspyder that was effectively like a Vindicator, giving support to the foot slogging troops. i would not want to give them any more transportation or other units that detracted from their slow implacable march. however, i will admit that the idea of a Tomspyder skiff that could either drop off Necrons or some larger (perhaps just smaller than man-sized) form of Scarab, would be quite cool looking.

- and finally i would most definitely keep on the cool rules that define the Necrons as being something different from everyone else, specifically WBB, Phase Out and the Gauss rules. however, i realise that they are currently poorly written and unhelpful. they simply need rewriting. not conceptually scrapping.

@ Sebi: the problem is though, neither the mechanics for WBB nor FNP tie the rules to describing a specific form of resurrection. they both simply imply that a warrior who was once hurt is now capable of fighting again.

your disagreement is merely with the way the rules are usually protrayed. so lets not forget that devotees of Khorne were allowed at one point to take FNP to show them taking a bullet to the chest and carrying on anyway, unstopable warriors fuelled by rage and bloodlust.

EDIT: and another thing!!

just a couple of other things that i thought of:

- one of the most important things to do is to clear up the sloppy background for the Necrons. currently their motivation it totally confused and how they came to be the servants of the C'tan makes even less sense. they just need someone to sit down and seriously think through how the Necrons got to where they are now (and thus why they dod the things they do). it would make them a lot more appealing if their backstory was stronger.

- rework the C'tan. personally i would be inclined to drop them from the codex and make them Apoc Datasheets, but i can see that might upset a few people. so instead make them a bit more connected to the Necrons to show that the Necrontyr and C'tan's cultures have merged together and as they became the Necrons.

a good visual inspiration is again from Rackham's AT-43 Therian range, this time Tiamat. this model has all the hallmarks of an insidious god-creature that is bound by technology. i'd much rather play with and against that than a bland and unconnected 'grim reaper' stereotype or gold dildo.


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## N0rdicNinja (Sep 17, 2008)

Blue Liger said:


> If they do replace WBB with FNP it will be with tweaks cause by the res orb and monlith much like it is now.
> 
> Notice how WBB is ignored by sweeping advances, power weapons and instant death (not sure on AP 1 and 2 but anything like that is usually ID)
> 
> ...


Actually there's a little bit more to it then that:

- As has been stated already we still get WBB against AP1 and AP2 weaponry
- A single model can be forced to take a FNP test an infinite number of times until it dies, with WBB however you will only ever need to pass it once. It's a lot easier to force a failure out of FNP, cause with WBB once your down there is no more shooting/attacking you, I simply try and res you with a single roll on my next turn.
- On the flip side if a unit of Necrons gets overrun they will NOT be able to make any WBB saves, if they had FNP however they would have been able to make those saves at the time the wound was taken.

WBB and FNP are much more different then they first appear, if Necrons had FNP right now the assault phase wouldn't be kicking our ass so much.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I know FNP is taken right after wounds but as I said they can tweak it with other rules in Nec uints to make it more fitting to the old WBB. A plus side to this FNP is that in CC you will be able to make more attacks back you have a standard 4S/T and a good weapon skill so you can kill people back in CC with the guys that survive. If phase out is also included in the next codex alongside of FNP you may just survive longer as it's done in the turn right then and not in your next turn. Only time and hopefully testing will fully tell the results of a FNP replacement.


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## El Thorax (Oct 23, 2009)

*Hmm*

I play as necrons, what ur saying i agree as well.
The necrons will be getting a new NL, and ctan removed from Normal games to Apoc, possibly new units not quite sure.
And there r only 4ctan left. NIGHTBRINGER, DECIEVER, VOID DRAGON, OUTSIDER.
VD-IS THE *IMPERIUMS MACHINE SPIRIT*:angry:The emperor captured him and now they suck information out oof the vd and use for the machine spirits, hmph
Outsider-is traped under the glactic planes by one of the eder gods, :angry:
I think they need to completely revise the necrons(PS: THEY MAYBE REMOVING THE 'Phase out rule', YES! :grin they may also be getting new units. Gauss weapons might be more powerfull(not quite sure), and some other things as well, oh yer NL have now got 4 lvls, Platnium bieng Living metal(the stuff the ctan are made of), Necrons r good bec they also have the web rule and i wld also like if they had fell no pain(bec they dnt)
Hopped that helped
PS: If u are going to play as necrons PLEASE dont just paint them like everyone else.


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## N0rdicNinja (Sep 17, 2008)

Blue Liger said:


> I know FNP is taken right after wounds but as I said they can tweak it with other rules in Nec uints to make it more fitting to the old WBB. A plus side to this FNP is that in CC you will be able to make more attacks back you have a standard 4S/T and a good weapon skill so you can kill people back in CC with the guys that survive. If phase out is also included in the next codex alongside of FNP you may just survive longer as it's done in the turn right then and not in your next turn. Only time and hopefully testing will fully tell the results of a FNP replacement.


Phase Out is calculated AFTER all WBB rolls have been attempted, so if in the enemies turn the 'crons are knocked below %25 it wont phase them out quite yet, if they're able to pass enough WBB saves on their turn PO doesn't proc, however if they're still below %25 after WBB rolls then they go poof.



El Thorax said:


> I play as necrons, what ur saying i agree as well.
> The necrons will be getting a new NL, and ctan removed from Normal games to Apoc, possibly new units not quite sure.
> And there r only 4ctan left. NIGHTBRINGER, DECIEVER, VOID DRAGON, OUTSIDER.
> VD-IS THE *IMPERIUMS MACHINE SPIRIT*:angry:The emperor captured him and now they suck information out oof the vd and use for the machine spirits, hmph
> ...


Your post is much appreciated but remember all of those Codex changes you listed are still considered to be rumors and absolutely non of it is set in stone. A lot of it would make sense for ways to change the 'crons, and I have no doubt some of them will shine through when/if the 'dex does come out, but none of them are considered fact as of yet.


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## El Thorax (Oct 23, 2009)

good point


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## Commander_Culln (Jul 6, 2009)

oooh! flayed ones as troops I like the sound of that!


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

El Thorax said:


> VD-IS THE *IMPERIUMS MACHINE SPIRIT*:angry:


Void Dragon =/= Machine God

the two are not the same, and in spite of what the Mechanicum books says, the Void Dragon can not and does not account for all of the factors that make up the Machine God. the Void Dragon has no way of accounting for the spirits of the various machines of the far future that the Imperium are so keen to appease. nor is there any indication that the Void Dragon has a way of passing on information pertenant to the Adeptus Mechanius (after all the other two C'tan are incapable of it when conscious, let alone when asleep). nor has there every been a satifactory answer as to why the C'tan are seen as being technologically advanced considering that they are race that evolved with no physical form and are were incapable of utalising technology until given the Necrodermis, meaning that the Void Dragon would be about as helpful the Adeptus Mechanicus as the MS Word paperclip assistant, he simply wouldn't know what he was talking about.

i agree that the Void Dragon has a role to play in this conundrum, but he simply can't be the sum totality of it (or at least he can't if GW want to lend the story any kind of crediblity).



lots of people said:


> some stuff about the difference between WBB and FNP


i realise why the difference is important, and why it is such a thorny issue. but seriously. yawnfest.

why do we have to let every conversation about the future of Necrons come down to this? i think we can fairly safely assume that irrespective of what else changes about the Necrons they will get some form of WBB/FNP style rule that allows the to shrug off wounds. either way the minutia of how it works is really the least of the Necrons' worries, their crippling lack of diversity, samey army builds and lacklustre presentation of background is what's holding them back.

so can we please put our collective creative brilliance towards some topics more likely to cause widereaching changes to the Necrons?

they currently only have one vehicle, what should be their second? or should they have something instead of vehicles?

currently you can't have a Necron-less army, should it be possible? what new units would be introduced to fill in the blanks?

everyone says the Necron Lord needs to be better. what changes will make him better? what upgrades should he have available?

should the two remaining C'tan be introduced to rules? if so what will their rules look like?

the Necrons currently have the smallest pallet of weapons in 40k. do they need new weapon types? if so what would be fitting for the most technologically advanced race in 40k?


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## Kaithan (Aug 20, 2009)

- Phase Out: Change it a bit, since it makes easier to kill a Necron Army

- Vehicle: Aside of the Monolith/Doomsday Monolith, it would be nice to see some other vehicle, maybe a transport too (it is really hilarious, that a so advanced race don't have any means of simple transport -aside of the monolith- especially if you take the fact that they needed to chase Eldars in the past)

- Plastic models: well... self explaining I think 

- More unit type: Same. It would be nice to see more type of units on the battlefield, so Necron players would have more to chose from, making their army lists more flexible.

- Re-work some unit: There are some rules at some units that just don't work well (like Phariah don't get the "We will be back") and some statistics would need some re-visit

- Unit points: Ah yeah... it makes nearly impossible in smaller scale (around 750 pt) for a Necron army to show some real fight, since most of its units are pricy (though mostly the Warriors eat it up...). Necrons (fluff vise) are a swarm army, nearly the same as the Tyranids, just mechanic instead of biological... (scarab swarms anybody ? ^^)

- Necron Lors could use some wider range of setup or role. Taking a look at the fluff, there should be different type of Necron Lords in look, role, weaponry, ect. The gauss tech is really impressive, but I can't feel it to be stronger than than the actual weapons (like bolter and whatnot), so it would be nice to make it a bit stronger (not that I want them to kill tanks with Warriors... ^^; ).

Aside of that, a bit better choice in HQ would be more than welcome. C'tan can be made to Apocalypse, but in their place, Necrons should get different Necron Lords, or "Necron Lord Heroes" or such.
Oh! And an artillery would be more than welcome.


Seriously... at their current state, I can't imagine how they were a serious threat to the elusive Eldars ? I know I speak against myself, since I play Tau, but if I play against a Necron I really want to FEEL that dread they possess in the fluff when I go against them.
That silent, icy grip, that just freezing the normal man's heart when facing the merciless, cold legions of the Necron machine armies.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

@ admiraldick: The reason that the C'tan are thought to be very high tech is because their slave race has very high tech. All the technology used by the C'tan was invented and made by the Necrontyr, and subsequently the Necrons.
Machine Spirit = advanced sentient AI. But you have to then place it into a religious context because the Imperium has become addled and depends on mysticism and ignorance.

As to all the wish-list stuff: why don't we try to work out where the Necron story might be heading? That would be a much better start point for predicting what GW will change in the Codex. Will the C'tan unite? Imagine fielding 2 C'tan in a standard list. The Deceiver is actively trying to find and wake the other C'tan so they can work together to rule the galaxy (codex fact). Maybe a large part of the Imperium has been overcome by Necrons and there are now lots of human worshipers of the C'tan.
What about the rumour about the Tyranids being a Necron ploy? Who says all the C'tan went into stasis in this galaxy, they might have gone next door and found a new system of slaves to serve (Tyranids never attack Tomb Worlds for example).
Just a few thoughts...


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

maybe the the old ones are still alive and the 'nids just happen to be one of their creations? basically the bugs are essentially a desperate attempt to reclaim their supremacy and something went horribly wrong and the 'nids are nothing more then a highly evolved form of the enslavers created by the old ones? now that would be interesting.


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## Kaithan (Aug 20, 2009)

titan11 said:


> maybe the the old ones are still alive and the 'nids just happen to be one of their creations? basically the bugs are essentially a desperate attempt to reclaim their supremacy and something went horribly wrong and the 'nids are nothing more then a highly evolved form of the enslavers created by the old ones? now that would be interesting.


Now thats an interesting idea oO
Actually I won't get surprised if the Old Ones were making the Tyranids as a last resort to the C'tan advance all over the place ^^
But they got something horribly wrong that banished the 'Nids for a "few" millennia and this is why the Enslavers popped into this reality. Than the 'Nids, without a controlling force evolved (om-nom-nom xD) to the actual state with the Hive Mind and they came back for a re-match with the Necrons ? 

Or is this sounds totally off ? XD


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

Friend of mine who is deeper in all the history and fluff once told me the Tyranids are a creation of the Eremite to absorb all living and feed the living into this biomass and create a universe of infinitive "food"


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

There are actually some rumours going around among the 'in-crowd' that the Nids are a creation of the C'tan. This would be one explanation for the overt references to all hive-fleets completely avoiding Necron held sectors - not just going there and finding there is no life and then buggering off, but actively avoiding them.
There are only a few C'tan in this galaxy, but there is no reason why C'tan from other galaxies could not be behind a Nid race - finding a way to make all the bio-mass of the Universe collect itself together and bring it all back to be consumed... Godz it even sounds like something the Deceiver might plan.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

yeah... god ol deceiver ... da ol' chum :grin:

I have yet to face Nids on the battlefield and my friend (who play em) told me is not eager to face my Necrons either 
I this aspect we are both following the fluff without intention but by pure "feeling"


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## Ironwinds (Nov 9, 2009)

My first army was crons, and they have been boxed for awhile. My Destroyer lord was ripped apart years ago to make my bionic speed demon prince.

All troops: Fearless. In 3rd just Ld 10 made sense. In 5th where your ld can be droped like a brick in HtH Ld 10 is not what it use to be. Just take the next step, fearless. 

Phase out: I would say just get rid of it, but they do need something I guess or otherwise all their troops point costs will sky rocket.

My wishlist:
WBB->FnP. Res orbs and such would just allow you to always take a FnP. Necrons would be tougher than plauge marines... which they should be.

Guass->rending. It already almost is, autowounds on a 6, BUT w/ the new glancing rules always glancing on a 6 isn't very useful. Rending would make our troops guns better against lights tanks and marines.... which they need, and would make our anti-tank weapons better as well. Before someone screams that rending is overpowered on warriors, I did the math not to long ago, squad of 10 warriors vs 10 marines w/ 2 plasmaguns. The # of marines killed by both squads was equal. So plasma and rending cancelled each other out. And honestly warriors should be a little bit better at shooting, and rending removes their need for special weapons. And plasma is actually better against tanks than str 4+rending as well. If you roll a 6, then a 5or6 your end str is 7, same as plasma, so the rest of the time your inferior. Against marines 10 warriors = 10 marines w/ 2 plasma. Against light tanks 10 warriors < 10 marines w/ 2 plasma. And it makes sense, you are slowly desentegrating your enemies, including their armor so at some point they should not be getting armor saves.

Ctan- not gone. But removed from 40k games. Bring them back... how they should of always been-> Apoc gargantuan creatures. These are star gods, they should be playing with the super greater demons and titans, not carnifexs, demon princes, and warithlords. They are already the most powerful non-gargantuan creatures in the game. Say that they have become more powerful since awakening, give them small wound,A increases and bump them up from M creatures to G creatures.

Make the tomb spyder more of a squad upgrade than a stand alone unit. Like the SW wolfguard or whatever they are called. Buy them seperate but you can attach them to squads before the battle. Tomb spyder adds needed HtH support, good anti-tank in hth, and once per player turn he allows you to re-roll a single FnP save as he repairs the warriors. If the tomb spyder is a stand alone unit he can make scarabs.

Pariahs need necron rule. 2 attacks in HtH wouldn't hurt either. Terminators got cheaper and better, pariahs have remained the same. They need the same changes. 

New vehicle. Maybe a floating pyramid, smaller, no door, just shoots stuff.


Nids avoid necron planets because there are no lifeforms to eat. Necrons destroy all life on their tomb worlds..... now I'm pretty sure this was to keep enslavers away but could be to keep nids away as well. Necrons also make extensive use of anti-pskyer tech, pariahs being an example. The hive mind can't operate properly in an area that is basically a giant null field so there is another reason nids would avoid such places. 

Doubt necrons would create nids, nids do the same thing they do, kill off everything. The nids=to eat it, necrons=harvest it into power. Really they are in competition for who gets to eat the galaxy. The necrons did create or at least ally with the enslavers because enslavers ONLY target psykers and of course anyone around the psyker. For the necrons this move makes sense because they want to rid the galaxy of psykers. They don't want to rid the galaxy of everyone, that is their power source. 

Orks are an old one creation. That is pretty obvious. Nids might be, but it really would be a last resort. The nids don't target the necrons at all, but if the nids win they eat the whole galaxy and remove the necrons power source. It is an EXTREME way of dealing with a threat, kill everything, all your other creations, everything just to stop the necrons. I must say... I think it is farther than the old ones would go. Especially since that makes the nids a greater threat than the crons.

Must say before now I never noticed the similarities between nids and enslavers. Enslavers control tons of lesser beings with their minds.... Hive mind... same thing.

Can't remember which group actually made the enslavers, the necrons to kill off all the psykers, or the old ones to kill off all the psykers(to purify the warp again). But either way necrons liked the enslavers killing psykers because they were a threat. Hmmm.... maybe the old ones did adapt enslavers into nids as a last resort, not as much to kill the crons(because nids end up being worse in that case), but to purify the warp again. The only way to defeat chaos is to rid the galaxy of beings whos minds project into the warp.... easiest way, have the nids kill everything. A galaxy sized magic eraser... and then come in afterwords and start anew.... and you kill the necrons food source at the same time.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Actually the Necrons don't 'need' to eat living things - C'tan are not called Star Gods/Vampires for nothing - they eat the stars themselves. Living things are just a bonus treat, something the C'tan got a taste for but by no means essential.

Even a world with no life would still be of interest to a Nid fleet, they would need the minerals of the planet and could take them without expending bio-mass on a conquest.

The Necrons, rather than the C'tan, really want to kill everything; but as the servants of the C'tan they are totally dominated by their will and not able to pursue this desire to the full - probably only with the exception finding some Old Ones.

For the C'tan it might make sense to use something like Nids as a tool to collect all biomass in the galaxy into a single, easy to consume, package. Bringing it all together for one really big dinner time!


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

darklove said:


> For the C'tan it might make sense to use something like Nids as a tool to collect all biomass in the galaxy into a single, easy to consume, package. Bringing it all together for one really big dinner time!


personally i would doubt that.

the C'tan appear only to be involved in the affairs of lesser creatures for a laugh. they are like foppish dandies, who think its funny to feel powerful and exhurt their will onto others. they treat everything like a big game. war isn't hell for them, because if their bodies damage they simply get another one.

so i doubt that they would ever want to eat the last remaining life form, because that would spoil the game. then who would they have to chase and bully?

mind you, there is scope to say that perhaps in their childish and willful nature some of them decided a decedant feast which destroyed every last living thing would be good for a laugh. kind of like the last days of Rome. perhaps if the Outsider were to return it might be his plan.

nevertheless i wouldn't see it as being the overall goal of all the C'tan, or even the majority.

more importantly, how would the C'tan interact with the Tyranids. they have no psychic powers, so the Hivemind is completely inaccessable to them.


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Ironwinds said:


> Make the tomb spyder more of a squad upgrade than a stand alone unit. Like the SW wolfguard or whatever they are called. Buy them seperate but you can attach them to squads before the battle. Tomb spyder adds needed HtH support, good anti-tank in hth, and once per player turn he allows you to re-roll a single FnP save as he repairs the warriors. If the tomb spyder is a stand alone unit he can make scarabs.


Now that's probably the most interesting idea along these lines I've seen recently. 

If you made the Tomb Spyder an attached unit, much like a dedicated transport w/o transport abilities, you'd remove it from the Force Organization Chart, which is really the biggest single impediment to its use. Combine that with aspects of the Eldar heavy weapons platform, and you could turn the TS into a unit that would actually be field-able w/o a major rewrite.

The one thing you'd have to do in this case is eliminate the problem caused by the majority toughness rule. Perhaps reduce the toughness to 4 and drop the points on the TS to match. 



Ironwinds said:


> Nids avoid necron planets because there are no lifeforms to eat. Necrons destroy all life on their tomb worlds..... now I'm pretty sure this was to keep enslavers away but could be to keep nids away as well. Necrons also make extensive use of anti-pskyer tech, pariahs being an example. The hive mind can't operate properly in an area that is basically a giant null field so there is another reason nids would avoid such places.


This is one theory, that the necrons have an anti-warp presence that the Hive Minds avoid, and frankly the one I favor. It doesn't have anything to do with Enlsavers though.



Ironwinds said:


> Doubt necrons would create nids, nids do the same thing they do, kill off everything. The nids=to eat it, necrons=harvest it into power. Really they are in competition for who gets to eat the galaxy.


Necron and nids. . . . . Could be their creatures; maybe. I don't find it likely though. 



Ironwinds said:


> The necrons did create or at least ally with the enslavers because enslavers ONLY target psykers and of course anyone around the psyker. For the necrons this move makes sense because they want to rid the galaxy of psykers. They don't want to rid the galaxy of everyone, that is their power source. . . .
> 
> Can't remember which group actually made the enslavers, the necrons to kill off all the psykers, or the old ones to kill off all the psykers(to purify the warp again). But either way necrons liked the enslavers killing psykers because they were a threat. Hmmm.... maybe the old ones did adapt enslavers into nids as a last resort, not as much to kill the crons(because nids end up being worse in that case), but to purify the warp again. The only way to defeat chaos is to rid the galaxy of beings whos minds project into the warp.... easiest way, have the nids kill everything. A galaxy sized magic eraser... and then come in afterwords and start anew.... and you kill the necrons food source at the same time.


I don't know where you got this, but it's way off. The Enslavers are warp entities that take possession of people, replacing them with more ensalvers as they bring more and more of themselves across from the Immaterium. As such, nobody created them. They initially take over psykers, much like daemonic possession, but they also take over non-psykers.

And the Enslavers were the reason that the C'Tan retreated into hibernation, not because they were threatened by the Enslavers, but because the Enslavers threatened to exterminate all life from the galaxy. Now the C'Tan *can* subsist on solar material, but they don't like to. And since time doesn't mean much to them, they just retired. This allowed the rest of the galaxy to defeat the Enslaver plague, and begin to recover from the C'Tan wars.

This is a great link that should get you the information you want.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

I don't know if I said it already but I suffered major losses in CC as my squads were swept and annihilated on the persuade.

this could easily be "cured" making the Necrons stubborn.
This ruled denies any Ld-modification meaning even if our warriors lose the CC they still roll on a Ld of 10 which is in my opinion fair and square for a soulless robot.
Fearlessness is maybe a bit too much but hey ... I won't argue if it happens ^^
no pinning ... no falling back ... with 3+ armor and additional wounds are easily shaken off combined with WBB.

and I still urge to leave WBB or no modify it too strong and for god's sake PLEASE not change it into FNP.
Though it might be simpler for beginners (WBB once understood is simpler imho) - WBB still is better and what makes Necrons Necrons


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## Ironwinds (Nov 9, 2009)

Daneel: I understand enslavers quite well. After reading the necron codex I was under a few interpretations.

After reading the necron codex I came to the conclusion the enslavers were like a double edged sword to the necrons. And in parts of the necron codex they like them, in others they don't. They liked the enlsavers because they targetted psykers, and psychic races were a threat to the necrons. They were coming into our realm through psykers of course... so their races were obvious targets. In other parts of the necron codex it mentions them trying to avoid the enslavers, and I was always under the impression they built their tombs on dead worlds because no life meant to psykers, no psykers meant no enslavers. So by being on dead worlds they could ignore what the enslavers were doing.

And how does going into hibernation stop the enslavers from killing all life? Bury your head in the sand and hope it doesn't happen? That makes sense. The necrons were exterminating the galaxy just as much if not more than the enslavers. Enslavers can't directly target non-psyker races either, so in order to attack... Tau for instance they would have to possess eldar or orks, fly ships to a Tau planet, and then go attack Tau. This is something the necrons being around could prevent because they could stop the enslavers from forming any large armies of slaves or using ships. I'll stick with my idea that th necrons were waiting for the enslavers to rid the galaxy of psykers to make a more necron friendly galaxy. And I don't have my necron codex on me, but I do remember reading about the necrons wanting the enslavers to kill off psychic races.

And I'm not seeing how WBB is better. You get max 1 sv per guy per game turn, FnP you can make saves all day in each players turn. 10 Plague marines can make 20+ FnP saves in one assault. 10 necrons can only make 10 WBB rolls in a turn... assuming there are more crons nearby. And that is 10 rolls per turn, not player turn, in assault those plauge marines are taking FnP saves in each players assault, and since they are not lying on the ground they are attacking back, AND are not being counted for who won assault. 1 necron can make 1 sv per game turn, a plague marine can theoretically make infinite saves as long as he keeps passing them. 1 < Infinity...... WBB just protects better against plasma.... doens't help at all against lascannons, missiles, ect because they double T. And if res orbs allowed saves even against ap2 weapons then FnP would be significantly better.


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## Ryuzaki (Nov 1, 2009)

As long as they have more upgrades, I'll wake my necrons from their eternal slumber within the dusty old cardboard box they were sent to after 4th ed CSM were created. Man, come to think of it, my necrons seem to be living out the current fluff (if you replace CSM with enslavers of course)...


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

The C'tan didn't make their Tomb Worlds on dead planets.

They found a planet they wanted to use, and then made it dead. No other race in 40k is as systematic and thorough in eradicating all life down to the atomic level as the Necrons. They would flay all life so that all that remained was dust and ash. The Tomb Worlds are a perfect example of why Necrons should be feared so much by all the other races - time means nothing to them and they have the tools to take on anything they want to.

WBB would be better than FNP if stubborn is added to the Necron rule. This would make it behave like it used to in 4th ed. - Necrons are not 'fearless', but they should not be subject to normal moral rules either.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Ironwinds said:


> Daneel: I understand enslavers quite well. After reading the necron codex I was under a few interpretations.
> 
> After reading the necron codex I came to the conclusion the enslavers were like a double edged sword to the necrons. And in parts of the necron codex they like them, in others they don't. They liked the enlsavers because they targetted psykers, and psychic races were a threat to the necrons. They were coming into our realm through psykers of course... so their races were obvious targets. In other parts of the necron codex it mentions them trying to avoid the enslavers, and I was always under the impression they built their tombs on dead worlds because no life meant to psykers, no psykers meant no enslavers. So by being on dead worlds they could ignore what the enslavers were doing.
> 
> ...


Can't reroll FNP through the monolith to bring back dead Plague Marines now can you?

One of the greatest strengths of the Necron army is their absolutely unreasonable survivability. In a unit of 20 warriors, if you shoot down all but one, by next turn I'll have 15. 9 of them pass their initial WBB, and then the remaining 5 are regenerated through the Monolith when I cycle them through it. Then I shoot you in the face a whole bunch of times, and if you do it again, well, its back to the monolith.


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

fnp will weaken the necrons but maybe that is because they are getting a lot of new stuff and that they are losing phase out so they have to be weakened somehow? there could be really cool new units, rules, vehicles, special rules for the whole army, and other improvements on existing units like actual options. For all we know the whole dynamics of the army maybe slated to undergo radical changes.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

After the gauss nerf, do they really deserve to be nerfed even more? Haven't we gone through enough?


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

titan11 said:


> fnp will weaken the necrons but maybe that is because they are getting a lot of new stuff and that they are losing phase
> out so they have to be weakened somehow?


i'm sorry, but that is little more than rampant wishlisting. there is little to no evidence that GW have even considered what might happen to the Necrons, let alone got to the point of deciding for definite on certain rules.

we don't know what will happen to the Necrons, end of story.

we can speculate, but it is just speculation. and in terms of speculation i can see full well why GW would exchange FNP for WBB, though i can see more logic in them getting their own variation of it. as for phase out, i can't see why it would simply got rid of rather than revised.



Iron Angel said:


> After the gauss nerf, do they really deserve to be nerfed even more? Haven't we gone through enough?


you are not the first person to have made a comment like this and i have to say that i always find them very strange.

first and foremostly gauss wasn't nerfed. in fact guass hasn't changed at all. what's changed is the environment in which gauss is used. everything else has been updated, btu gauss hasn't. this means that when it comes to updating the gauss rules there is every possibility that they will be taken back to their relative value (after inflation has been accounted for). alternatively, that will be the time they get 'nerfed'. up until that point nothing has happened to the gauss weapon. so your problem is not in them being downgraded, but not being upgraded, which is a very different issue.

secondly, it betrays a very strange attitude towards how you think a codex is written. it sounds like you think that when a new codex is written the writers simply take the current one and add extra rules here and there until they have something they regard as the finished product. which is obviously not the case.

writers will literally start from scratch, and will try to create a book that works within the current rules set but bears enough similarity to its predecessors for gamers to see some level of continuity.

that means that they won't say, 'what can we change to make it work?' but 'what do we need to do to make it a necron book and cool?' the rules of the current codex do not necessarily impinge on the design of the new one, as we have seen with a number of radically different codexes over the years.


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## Praxiss (Aug 13, 2009)

I would to see pariahs have the "necron" special rule. Maybe then yuo'd see more of them on tables.

Another vehicle woudl be nice, maybe a mini-lith or something similar.

Soemthgin to make Wraiths a bit more reliable in CC. I charges a unit of Wraiths into a IG command squad the other day and they all died and only managed to kill 1 guardsman!!! for 41 points per model! WTF!?! I woudl up their WS and mayeb give them rending. Power weapons woudl be great but a tad overpowered me thinks. Maybe power weaposn as an option?


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

It would be nice if they could get power weapons or rending as an option because being allowed a regular armor save is very significant in cc and those options allow you to ignore armor saves.


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