# Where do we go from here?



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

So, remember the old days where every now and then we'd see a thread about the future of 40k? Theories of who would be the last race standing, who would finally end the Imperium and who would die first? 

Well I thin we can go for one of those again. With the release of shiny new lore that has pushed the setting forward, let's hear some more projections with updated info! 

The Imperium has a Primarch back to lead them. One of the greatest military minds humanity has ever seen and a warrior that few if any could hope to stand against. Aside from what Roboute himself can bring, the morale boost to the soldiers of the Imperium will be huge. 

Cadia has fallen, and the way to Terra from the Eye is laid open. Chaos now has a clean shot, but can they make it work with Guilliman on task? 

The necrons' grand overlord is back in the galaxy, and he is recruiting elements of his old empire towards a single goal; the destruction of the tyranids. 

The eldar have a new hope for their own future, the manifestation of Ynnead and the path laid out to completing its power. 

The orks and tyranids remain an ever present threat, the Tau empire continues to expand and there is even the possibility of the Farsight Enclaves coming back on side with them. 


So what do you think?


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

As far as the Imperium is concerned, I don't think the return of Guilliman is going to have the impact that some would hope. He's returning to whats essentially a bastardized version of the empire he fought for, where religion and infighting have a stranglehold on the Imperium.

I see the Imperium mostly remaining the same, perhaps the successors of the Ultramarines working together more often but otherwise Guilliman is just one primarch and can only effect so much. Especially when you consider how much will get piled against him, or rather who will be piling things against him.


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## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

Let's see, (major) faction by faction:

Imperium is still the biggest on the block, but with the galaxy covered in Warp storms it can't fight as a whole. On the other hand, with Guilliman's legendary logistical ability in play... if Mars manages to get the Imperium back in the tech game, there's absolutely no reason humanity can't go into a fairly convincing second Great Crusade. The problem is that it's fighting nearly EVERYONE, with only (part of) the Eldar as nominal allies. The situation is ridiculously grim, but there's hope and that's more than it has had for millennia. 

The Eldar too have hope, but they sacrificed a LOT for it. Commorragh is effectively gone, their most powerful military craftworld, Biel-Tan, is in tatters, and their population issues aren't going anywhere. For all that it was used for irony, Vect's "What fool would plan to defeat their enemy by dying forever themselves" has some definite truth in it.

The Orks... meh, they've already won. They've GOT their victory condition. 

Necrons will probably accelerate waking up where they can as Chaos breaking loose... probably not in their best interest. If the Silent King gets things together they'll still be focused on the Tyranids. TBH, it's hard to see if any of Gathering Storm will even have any effect on their actions beyond slightly annoying some of their Lords.

The Tau... are actually screwed. Oh, they'll probably pull through by weeabo author fiat, but last we saw of them they were all about to become Tyranid snacks and had lost Aun'Va (and the world he was on) to an Imperial counterattack. Shadowsun needs to step the hell up to the plate, and preferably make friends with Farsight. I don't think they can count on the Imperium to bail them out of THIS Tyranid attack... It's a bad day when you need to pray you accidentally colonized a Necron tomb world, but it might actually be their best hope.

The Tyranids... Much like the Necrons, unlikely to be affected by recent events, but from what we've seen of their interaction with Chaos, they might well end up biting Abaddon in the but (bonus points for doing it literally).

As far as we know, Chaos is currently the only one that currently DOESN'T have something horrible happen to it.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Shandathe said:


> As far as we know, Chaos is currently the only one that currently DOESN'T have something horrible happen to it.


Well there is the return of Guilliman and the loss of Cadia as a staging point for attacks into the Imperium. Not as horrible as some of the others, but they certainly don't make things easier.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I really don't think we'll have long to wait to see what happens next. Considering how quickly GS came on the heels of the Warzone: Fenris books, I think the next phase will hit us with the rumoured release of 8th Ed on late summer. Lets remember that this is, quite literally, the gathering storm. That storm is going to hit, and hit hard. There are quite a few dangling threads that will need to be tidied up soon.

Abbadon is ready to drop the hammer on a weakened Imperium. What form that hammer takes, I really don't know, but if he has finally reached his endgame, it's gonna be pretty big.

The Imperium is beset on all sides. The SWs have taken a serious kicking and the DA have been infiltrated and influenced by chaos, not to mention that fact that their most closely kept secret is out of the bag. The return of a primarch, especially one with his own ideas of how an empire should be run like Girlyman, could lead to a schism in the ranks. We also still have to see what the arrival of Cypher and the Lion's sword on Terra mean for the Imperium and the Emperor himself. Personally, I don't think Guilliman will be around for too long. They seem to have made specific reference to the fact that Yvraine told him he should never remove his armour, in doing so they revealed a way he could be taken down. Why mention it if it's not going to come into play later? Might just be me reading too much into a single line, but it did jump out at me.

The Eldar are the big ones for me when it comes to the scope of their upheaval. A god returned, and all of a sudden the entire race has a rallying point. Will we see them coming together en mass, with all four factions (five if you count Harlequins as a separate faction) forming a unified front against Chaos, and try to reclaim some fraction of their former empire? If that meant we saw some dino-riding Exodite eldar appear, it could only be a good thing.

As for Orks, Tau, nids and necrons, I think they will only play a peripheral roll until the storm peters out and the dust settles. This whole arc is about moving on the stagnated story line of the struggle for survival against the forces of chaos, with the Imperium and Eldar long being the biggest victims of the predations of said forces, so playing the biggest parts in the story. 

Game-wise, I think when The Storm Strikes(TM) we're going to see something big for Chaos, with a triple box for them featuring Fulgrim, Abbadon, and a third that I couldn't begin to guess at, seeing as the other major chaos players like Kharn and Ahriman have recently received new sculpts. I also think we may see the forces in the game broken into factions similar to AoS, as in Order, Chaos, Death and Destruction. 

I must admit I am quite excited that I picked this period in time to jump back into the murky, shark infested waters of 40k.


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## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

Khorne's Fist said:


> The SWs have taken a serious kicking and the DA have been infiltrated and influenced by chaos, not to mention that fact that their most closely kept secret is out of the bag.


I'm not sure how out of the bag it is, but yeah... And it gets worse. Practically all other First Founding loyalists are up the creek at the moment.

White Scars: Maelstrom is expanding as well, it appears - over Chogoris. They're thus occupied dealing with Huron Blackheart and friends. (Rise p41)
Imperial Fists: Some losses taken, Phalanx is going to take forever to repair and cleanse. Probably mostly okay as a retcon appears to move some of its companies from Cadia where they used to be for the 13th Black Crusade to two other theaters.
Blood Angels: Baal about to be overrun by Tyranids. Note this is mere months after they had to rebuild the Chapter from scraps and the generosity of their Successors.
Iron Hands: Medusa's near the Eye of Terror. No word yet whether it's still actually OUTSIDE it, what with the Eye growing, but it's probably on Abaddon's list of vacation spots. 
Ultramarines: Took losses securing Ultramar... Regained a Primarch and overall came out smelling like roses. What else is new. 
Salamanders: I... actually don't know. They were on Armageddon for the Third War there, but it's been a year or so and I'm not sure they're still around... Though if they are, it's experiencing a full Warp breach now (Rise p49)
Raven Guard: Deliverance in the path of a massive Ork Waagh, with Chapter Master Kayvaan Shrike being VERY new to that role.


Oh, one point of note on the Orks: As per p27 of Rise, Ghazghkull is on the move again.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm hoping, somewhere with more primarchs and Demon primarchs and Triumvirates for Chaos.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

It isn't just Guilliman for the Imperium though is it? Aren't the Custodes also joining the fray now? Do we have numbers for how many of them there are? They're absolute beasts on the table top, I imagine they'll pack a punch in the lore as well.


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## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

Custodes... probably rather like any Chapter, as many as the story needs. More specifically, we don't know. The Dark Heresy rulebook has a throwaway "Thousand Companions" but they obviously don't show up there, Master of Mankind says "the Ten Thousand" which is probably more factual though they get reduced a good amount over the course of that novel and thousand might be the more correct number at the end. 

There's pretty much nothing on what they've done since the events of Master of Mankind, though Rise is obviously somewhat retconning the previous lore which had them sitting naked around the palace. Instead we've got them and the Sisters of Silence bailing out Guilliman with skill and alacrity. Both of those have had a couple millennia to rebuild their numbers (if the Custodes COULD), and we don't know what they've been doing - other than "more than we knew" - so they probably took limited losses.

Actually, one thing everyone should take note of: Every source we have says that unlike the Primarchs, the Custodes don't really do 'own initiative' and ONLY move as the Emperor Himself commands. 

They're moving. 

Do the math.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Shandathe said:


> Actually, one thing everyone should take note of: Every source we have says that unlike the Primarchs, the Custodes don't really do 'own initiative' and ONLY move as the Emperor Himself commands.
> 
> They're moving.
> 
> Do the math.


So, perhaps the Emperor was waiting. Custodes out and about in a dying Imperium may have been pointless. 

Custodes out and about in an Imperium with renewed hope however... Custodes and a Primarch, with allies in the Mechanicus now devoted to progress, with a tenuous alliance to the Eldar and a new god... 

There's more in the Imperium's favour now than just the return of a primarch.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> It isn't just Guilliman for the Imperium though is it? Aren't the Custodes also joining the fray now? Do we have numbers for how many of them there are? They're absolute beasts on the table top, I imagine they'll pack a punch in the lore as well.


The Custodes and Sisters are dropping this Saturday, so hopefully more light will be shed on them then.


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## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

To me this is what was needed for War Hammer 40 K. I think things were stalling and even for the black library novels they were releasing the Horus Heresy novels at a snails pace and I think losing readership. Just like with War Hammer they just changed everything and with 40k they plan on making some new changes too. 

I predict more primarchs will come back. It's possible it might be Khan . Why? He disappear into the webway if I remember chasing after the dark eldars. With what just happened to the Eldars and the webway its possible he might be the next in line to pop out. If anything adding more primarchs will be a benefit to the Imperium.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

kwak76 said:


> If anything adding more primarchs will be a benefit to the Imperium.


It depends on the primarch when you stop and think about it. Ones like the Khan and Russ are, by and large, fairly selfish and one track. When it comes down to it, the primarchs who were big picture thinkers have always been Gulliman, Corax, Dorn, and Sanguinius (and unfortunately one of them is dead, another allegedly dead, and a third vanished millennia ago.)

If we were to see another loyalist primarch return I'd hope for Corax or Vulkan, though given the latters thoughts on the Imperium during the war with the Beast I don't see that going over to well.


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## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

While I too would like to see Vulkan, and I've always had a soft spot for the Khan... if we're looking for a big picture guy for the current situation, I think El'Jonson would be best. No matter what some of the others might have thought, the choice for Warmaster was always between Horus and him. I don't think Guilliman would really have a problem with the Lion taking over similar responsibilities for the Imperium, as those two already divided the roles for Imperium Secundus before. 

It would also set up an interesting new rivalry as it sets Abaddon directly against Horus' main competition for Warmaster, which would give him a chance to live up to his anti-Horus rants...


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## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Regardless which Primarch will come back next. I think this a good direction for warhammer 40k. Things were just stalling. The Dark Angles primarch makes most sense since we know his not dead but just sleeping. But not sure if Dark Angles will accept Gulliman as the High Commander. I can see pretty much all the primarch accepting their roles IF they come back. 

Just wish black library just speed up there writing . The Horus heresy novels should of been long done already .


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

darkreever said:


> If we were to see another loyalist primarch return I'd hope for Corax or Vulkan, though given the latters thoughts on the Imperium during the war with the Beast I don't see that going over to well.


There was some leaked stuff a while back showing Vulcan as a returning Primarch. I'm not sure if that was ever verified or called out as fake, but having Vulcan back would certainly make things interesting.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=0db227363927082eda0e8fac7503c60f&oe=5917E16C

The leak came before the reveal of the return of guiliman and was decried as false. But now, its looking a lot more plausible.
I could imagine this would be set around the unveiling of Cawl's new toys on Mars. Vulkan would be perfect for assisting with it, due to how tech minded he is.


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## Roganzar (Feb 16, 2014)

Brother Lucian said:


> https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=0db227363927082eda0e8fac7503c60f&oe=5917E16C
> 
> The leak came before the reveal of the return of guiliman and was decried as false. But now, its looking a lot more plausible.
> I could imagine this would be set around the unveiling of Cawl's new toys on Mars. Vulkan would be perfect for assisting with it, due to how tech minded he is.


Ah shit, Matt Ward is a Captain of the Ultramarines????

Anyways, hoping for Cypher to end the Emperor's undeath, redeeming the Fallen. Followed by the Lion ending his 10,000 year nap.
More Primarchs (see above) and Daemon Primarchs, because I want to see 40K models for them. Especially the the Daemon Primarchs. Magnus' model is badass. Even Rowboat Girlyman's new model is awesome. Better and more dynamic than his 30K incarnation.
Lore wise, we haven't advanced much in the setting. It felt like a lot of hurry up and wait. They rushed a lot of what was happening, due to the format of the books. Which is, I guess, setting the stage for actual advancements in the setting. I want them to restore the legions, loyalist ones anyway, restored with the surviving Primarchs. The Emperor's condition ended. Big E ascending for a hot minute to slap some greedy Chaos Gods, all hail, around for a bit, then coming back because Perpetual. Then bringing about a new crusade. Bringing the setting from year 41,999 to year 42,001, or slightly higher, by the end.


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## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

Brother Lucian said:


> https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=0db227363927082eda0e8fac7503c60f&oe=5917E16C
> 
> The leak came before the reveal of the return of guiliman and was decried as false. But now, its looking a lot more plausible.


It was decried as false or a ridiculously early draft. There's way too many errors in both layout and people (even ignoring Matt Ward and Phil Kelly) for it to be anything else.


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## Entarion (Oct 25, 2009)

I have just finished Rise of the Primarch and I must say that I'm disappointed with Cypher story incorporation. Such cunning person being screwed up so easily by Guilliman. Grrr.

_I expected some shocking revelation but we got more mysteries instead. Yes, I am talking about that sword bit. Wasn't it always meant to be Lion's Sword ? But it filled Guilliman with dread so that makes no sense. Unless..there is still some shocking revelation to be made about Lion in HH series. _

*^EDIT* My bad here. Just found out about the fluff in Angels of Caliban and Great Wolf novels. Another shocking revelation. At least for me. My faith in Lion has taken another huge hit. I should read all those books soon to avoid future spoilers.

Also, Cypher parading through whole Terra with Guilliman ? Exposed just like that ? Somebody had to recognize him and DA's will know for sure. I hope that we will soon see some continuation of this story arc.
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Regarding the future of W40k. Yes, we have seen some progress in Fenris and GS books but with faction concept revelation in 8th edition I think they will focus on full-scale war between Chaos and Imperium without any huge plot advancements. They can now clash between each other for next several years with GW focusing on releasing new models rather than advancing the fluff.

But I hope that I am mistaken because now there is huge opportunity to bring Primarchs back, make new codexes and do some radical changes in fluff.


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