# Are the 'Wing armies still effictive in 6th Ed



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Draigowing, Nipplewing, Loganwing, Deathwing, Ravenwing....

Which of them are still effective in 6th Edition? 

Deathwing and Ravenwing have both been updated to the current codex and seem to be strong choices overall. Draigowing took a solid hit with the changes to wound allocation rules compared to last ed. I am unsure about Logan and Nipple 'wing. 

At the release of 6th Edition the mindset seemed to be that foot slogging 2+ armor would be unstoppable. With the release of the last 5 codexs is this mindset still holding true? Was it ever true to begin with?

I personally feel that while they are strong they are not unstoppable. There is just too many ways to kill infantry in the game now, even 2+ infantry. The change to power weapons AP hurt CC killing power of 2+ but it was I feel always more effective to shoot 2+ off the board. 

Thoughts?


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

I think you are right about just shooting 2+ off the board. Armies are getting myriad ways of negating 2+ armor. Even the armies not as blessed can unleash such volumes of firepower that you are bound to roll 1s for saves. All the "Wing" lists seem to be very point heavy as well.

As for close combat, there are still plenty of AP 2 weapons about. Even a Dire Avenger Exarch has access to an AP 2 sword that can cause Instant Death. So it comes down to balancing a list to deal with different things and strategic positioning. Having your AP 2 weapons going against 3+ save models is a misuse, if your opponent has 2+ saves running around.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Loganwing is still a popular build.....maybe not all termies, but logan + 2-3 squads of wolf guard, long fangs and some podding GH is the list that won the australian masters in December (meta has changed by now obviously, but its still a solid list).

Ive taken deathwing to a 1500 tourney and went 2-1, I can see they have major drawbacks but its still playable. I'd be curious to see others success with a DW list.

As for nipplewing, I've never seen one played outside of batreps online, but would be very curious to hear about other's experiences either with or against this kind of list. I've always been curious about it, especially now in 6th.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Keep forgetting that Loganwing doesn't mean all termies. 

What were some of the major drawbacks you found while playing Deathwing?

Nipplewing for me looks very good on paper but I think it is harder to make it work on the board. 

Has Dragiowings been doing well still from what people have seen?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Deathwing is dead. Price increases, Sergeant FAQ and wider use of Plasma weapons killed them. It was never that great anyway, but the lack of survivability (ironically) makes it inefficient and ineffective (6th rewards lots of shitty dudes in cover, not a few rock-hard dudes outside it). Back it up with a few Mortis Dreads, Devastators and Bikes and you might have an army.

Nipplewing was never even alive - Blood Hammer was some variant using Sanguinary Guard, maybe 15 or 20, and Devastators which was a lot better, but it's still not very good.

Ravenwing are the gods of the new DA codex, being the best build you can make from it by quite a margin.

Wolfwing/Loganwing... with 3x6 Long Fangs, you can't be *bad*, but you're not really very good due to Wolf Guard prices. Didn't suffer as badly as Razorwolves, but in all you're missing out on Grey Hunters which is a bad move.

Draigowing, not really sure. Harder to tank shots on Draigo himself, but easier if you get hit by a Demolisher or something to just fob it off onto him. You can pile all the hits on the Warding Stave dude or some such now, which is nice as you confine the damage to your tougher areas, but they still have the problem of being a deathstar - hundreds of X-Wings will still fuck you up by taking the objectives and ignoring your big blob, which can kill a maximum of 7 units in a full-length game. So in short, not really sure - pretty much the same as 6th, but without Wound Allocation and more character tanking.

Midnight


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

A properly backed Deathwing army could be viable, but it can't be a 'pure' terminator army. Midnight's bang on there with what he suggested to support it.

Nipplewing...well...I _might_ buy the models for conversion purposes, or if there's something crazy new in a 6th codex for me that makes that squad viable. I really don't even think Dante is worth his points, more so now that he jumps in all fast just to really slowly swing his axe at someone.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Drawbacks? Exactly what midnight said. Eventually 2+ will fail you, and blob armies in cover will make you work for every kill. The list in the tourney that crushed me was a cotez with 2 storm ravens build, and the mission type was meant to counter draigo lists but it shut deathwing down as well (hq had to sit on an objective all game, so no no scatter deep strike, couldn't make use of Belial or his warlord trait, etc). Against the other 2 lists the deathwing held up great, and they're incredibly efficient at the relic scenario (no scatter t1 deathwing knight deep strike?). 

Mass shooting armies entrenched will wear them down. I have major problems beating my regular opponent who is blob ig. I can't even dent him with cover ignoring noise marines and baleflamers. While 2+ is strong, a guardsman with t1 nightfight who goes to ground in area terrain has a 2++. For zero cost. And can shrug the negative effects with get back in the fight. With negating your return fire, and outnumbering a deathwing army heavily, you're absolutely struggling for a draw.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

I don't have much experience with Deathwing, but in the few games I have had so far where I have allied them with blood angels and have supported them with scouts, dreads, Ravenwing etc they have done very well and have been very fun.

I basically drop pod dreadnoughts (Furiosos with frag cannons and then just regular multi-melta/pfs) to take the heat off of the Deathwing for a turn and to disrupt enemy lines...I think this tactic was first mentioned in the dark angels guide in the tactica forum, so kudos to whoever wrote it. 

So yeah, they seem to work well when in Greenwing lists. But I think pure DW lists wouldn't work. Especially against blob guard where the sheer volume of pissweak shots (especially with First Rank fire!) is going to down entire terminator squads before they can do anything. 
No 'pure' list really works in 40k anymore, because 6th edition has encouraged more balanced lists with variety IMO. A few exceptions of course exist (Ravenwing springs to mind, they can fulfill all roles pretty well: anti-infantry, anti-tank, anti-horde etc.), but these are the exception rather than the general trend.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I'll expand a bit on the problems with Deathwing. You deploy, and see two Leman Russ Executioners across the table. Erm, what the fuck now? How are you going to deal with them? Likewise with Tervigons - you will mulch them pretty easily if you can get into combat with them, but if is the big one here - you won't. You don't have the attacks or shots to kill the little bugs, who will swamp you into your DS zones/deployment zone (since you can't all Deathwing Assault, making some of your squads overpriced due to paying for Assault and Vengeful Strike without being able to use it). Eldar will run rings around you and wittle you down with their firepower. Tau will just use brute force to kill you, and since you've got 5+ Invulns at the very least, you can bet all their Markerlights are bringing in Seeker Missiles and buffing Ballistic Skill.

Midnight


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Yep, you are quite right: Executioners will have a field day, along with blob lasgun fire, veterans with plasma (or even melta), autocannon saturation etc. 
Deathwing lists lack the flexibility to deal with multiple threats like this. Cyclone Missile Launchers aren't going to do jack to av14, and you have to wait a turn if deep striking to be able to assault and use chainfists, pf's, TH/SS on vehicles: Against things like Executioners that means you would have to soak up a turn of plasma ap2 templates, unless you get a lucky rear shot...
I guess Storms Shields might help with the 3++, but then they'd still have to survive hundreds of lasgun shots, plasma/melta vets, autocannons etc...Which isn't happening. And deep striking a TH/SS squad is just a stupid idea anyway for so many reasons... 

Easy to isolate, can't deal with av14, slow: Those are the 3 main problems I see. 

Of course, work in some scout squads, drop pod some melta, get some long range fire support and the Deathwing work beautifully: But then it isn't pure Deathwing, which is what this thread asked.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Straken's_Fist said:


> Of course, work in some scout squads, drop pod some melta, get some long range fire support and the Deathwing work beautifully: But then it isn't pure Deathwing, which is what this thread asked.


Why bother taking crap scouts and suicide Melta when you can ally in Imperial Guard to do that stuff better? I'd agree, non-pure Deathwing is still viable; Belial, a Librarian, and 15-20 Terminators, then a Lord Commissar, 40 Guardsmen with Power Axes and Meltas/Autocannons, PCS with either all Flamers or no gear for cheapness, a Vendetta with some Meltavets, if you've got enough then a Manticore or a Griffon squadron. That gives you the scoring presence and big guns/anti-Flyer, but as said you're not running a 'wing' army at that point.

Midnight


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## Sons of Russ (Dec 29, 2007)

SM Allies

Dev Centurions(omniscope)

Sm captain on bike with bike squad , teleport homers

Scouts with teleport homers

10 man terminator "blob"s

Rhinos for blocking LOS to termites

Tiggy for the reserve reroll

I'm doing up an Imperial fist army, using lots of tactical s... But if I had scoring troop terminators I would swap the tactical s IF I could still purchase rhinos or razorbacks for the termies (which is why I have to run Loganwing since only their termie squads can take Rhinos/razorbacks)

I do a pure Loganwing, and it works because I use Las/plas and TLLC razorbacks in quantity For AP 2 and AT AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, using transport vehicle hulls to shield foot slogging termie squads from anti tank/TEQ fire

u must think of cheap transports as mobile bunkers to hide BEHIND, not INSIDE...


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I never played any of the wing armies, so I can't say, but I do agree, volume of fire will whittle down termies eventually, and if you're walking you're taking a while to get there, d/s you take a full turn of fire, and any interceptor the enemy has. I think pure wings are dead, but with proper support, they can still fight. A coteaz/wing force could still do well, or guard allies. And don't forget the new grav cannon. 2+ wound and ap2


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