# The Pseudo-Astartes process? And it does it work on Females?



## The Final Frontier (Oct 15, 2011)

It's one of those WTF threads again. I was at my wieard GW store working on my Captain in Centurian Armour with my friend Mark who runs the store and I a couple of people came in and started playing. A girl player(Holy Shit) used her Female Space Marines against the same guy who plays CSM. Now normally like most, for model and gameplay wise I don't care untell they come out with the fluff then all hell breaks out. The CSM player had such a fit he threw a SPARTAN tank from forge world(I almost cried). She said they were Pseudo-Astartes instead of female Adeptus Astartes. I just kinda hid, I wasn't getting into that arguement. So what the hell is the process for making pseudo-Astartes and can women become pseudo-Astartes?


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Sounds like she just made it up to explain her models.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Creon said:


> Sounds like she just made it up to explain her models.


And there is certainly no problem with that.

Someone who would get so annoyed over so mediocre an issue is obviously just a prat.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

I see no reason why there would be an issue with this...


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

Did you save the tank? That's the real issue here I think.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I think the CSM player was crazy. Fluff is nice, but throwing a tank? After all, who cares, as long as she's usingthe rules as printed in a codex, what's the problem?


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## The Final Frontier (Oct 15, 2011)

There's a reason why I almost cried. I've been wanting an SPARTAN Assault Tank from forgeworld for awhile but I can't bring myself to pay 150$ for one model even if its badass. Unforn the tank didnt make it off the table although Mark was able to convert into wreckage scenery for cover in HH campaigns. 

Still though fluff wise am not sure if that would swing in the fluff. There's no female becoming one but the process isn't told either.


PS the CSM player is over 30 and has played since the Rogue Trader days. He shall we say not fond of made up fluff.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Someone destroyed a 150 dollar tank and didn't get tossed from the store?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The Final Frontier said:


> Still though fluff wise am not sure if that would swing in the fluff. There's no female becoming one but the process isn't told either.
> 
> 
> PS the CSM player is over 30 and has played since the Rogue Trader days. He shall we say not fond of made up fluff.


Made up fluff? Tell that to Kor Phareon of the Word Bearers and Luther of the Dark Angels, both of whom are pseudo-Astartes, the process that elevated them isn't discussed in depth certainly not in any manner that suggests it's reliant on gender to work.

People might know me on Heresy as a stickler for fluff, aggressive denial in regards to FSM but in this case bravo to the player who came up with a plausible reason for said abilities of her female warriors.


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## Jolnir (Feb 11, 2014)

The Final Frontier said:


> PS the CSM player is over 30 and has played since the Rogue Trader days. He shall we say not fond of made up fluff.


This guy is a grade-A dingus. Isn't all fluff made up at some point? Is it honestly an issue to play a sci-fi fantasy game with your own imagination instead of someone else's? Guys like this scare new people away. What a waste of a good tank too...


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## The Final Frontier (Oct 15, 2011)

Well at least the SPARTAN won't be sitting on the shelf since almost but me plays 30K SM armies. There's a lot of HH battles in my GW.

Now would the I being investigating the so called FSM? Lol I think she called then the Adeptus Valkyrias. I guess why she name them Valkyrie. Are pseudo-Astartes harder to make then regular SM?

PSS The CSM player lost after her Chapter Master used some orbital cannons on his Deamon Prince and his khorne beszerkers. They didn't make there saves XD


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## Jolnir (Feb 11, 2014)

The Final Frontier said:


> PSS The CSM player lost after her Chapter Master used some orbital cannons on his Deamon Prince and his khorne beszerkers. They didn't make there saves XD


I can only imagine the look on his face, as well as the smug everyone else in the shop must have had.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I could only assume the half-astartes process would work. The _First Heretic_ glosses over Kor Phaeron's transofrmation as a combination of "rejuvant surgery, costly bionics and limited gene-forging". As others have said, there's nothing stating explicitly that this process could not be used on a woman (unlike the full-astartes process). Fluff-wise, it's okay.

Dunno how they'd stand up TT-wise, though. We see Kor Paheron's stats in the FW book _Massacre_ and he's lacking the standard Astartes 4 toughness and four initiative--both of these are a regular human's 3.

I would argue that a full army of equally statted female half-astartes wouldn't fly.

But the concept of mechanically and biologically enhanced, power-armored women is fine.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Baron Spikey said:


> Made up fluff? Tell that to Kor Phareon of the Word Bearers and Luther of the Dark Angels, both of whom are pseudo-Astartes, the process that elevated them isn't discussed in depth certainly not in any manner that suggests it's reliant on gender to work.
> 
> People might know me on Heresy as a stickler for fluff, aggressive denial in regards to FSM but in this case bravo to the player who came up with a plausible reason for said abilities of her female warriors.


Just for the record the only reason why the primarchs weren't Female was because the emperor made them male.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Tool. That is all.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

The Final Frontier said:


> It's one of those WTF threads again. I was at my wieard GW store working on my Captain in Centurian Armour with my friend Mark who runs the store and I a couple of people came in and started playing. A girl player(Holy Shit) used her Female Space Marines against the same guy who plays CSM. Now normally like most, for model and gameplay wise I don't care untell they come out with the fluff then all hell breaks out. The CSM player had such a fit he threw a SPARTAN tank from forge world(I almost cried). She said they were Pseudo-Astartes instead of female Adeptus Astartes. I just kinda hid, I wasn't getting into that arguement. So what the hell is the process for making pseudo-Astartes and can women become pseudo-Astartes?


Yes? Also, bro needs to chill the fuck out.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

Angel of Blood said:


> Tool. That is all.


pretty much this? that man needs to grow the F up. trowing FW tanks over a bit of homebrew fluff.


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

Were her models good? I've got nothing against a female SM army (if there's some effort in the fluff to support it) but the majority of conversions i've seen look very odd.

On topic: Guy sounds like a moron.


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## The Final Frontier (Oct 15, 2011)

Other then her Chapter Master and her HQ's, they were ok. She couldn't figure what legion/chapter to make them based off so she basically combined. She has Space Wolve like, Dark Angel like , Black Templer like etc. I wanted her Chapter master since it was custom model. She paid someone to sculpt it. Should of taken a pic.

Lets not turn this into a FP topic lol


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)




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## Karthak (Jul 25, 2010)

"Checks currency converter". He risked destroying an item worth more than 120 euros because his opponent fielded female space marines? Now that's some expensive misogyny.


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## Marauderlegion (Nov 27, 2013)

The Final Frontier said:


> It's one of those WTF threads again. I was at my wieard GW store working on my Captain in Centurian Armour with my friend Mark who runs the store and I a couple of people came in and started playing. A girl player(Holy Shit) used her Female Space Marines against the same guy who plays CSM. Now normally like most, for model and gameplay wise I don't care untell they come out with the fluff then all hell breaks out. The CSM player had such a fit he threw a SPARTAN tank from forge world(I almost cried). She said they were Pseudo-Astartes instead of female Adeptus Astartes. I just kinda hid, I wasn't getting into that arguement. So what the hell is the process for making pseudo-Astartes and can women become pseudo-Astartes?


Oh man! Poor Spartan! What a dick!

Ye Gods, you're playing a girl, encourage her for god's sakes. This kind of asinine stupidity is why so few girls are into gaming.


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## Jolnir (Feb 11, 2014)

Marauderlegion said:


> Oh man! Poor Spartan! What a dick!
> 
> Ye Gods, you're playing a girl, encourage her for god's sakes. This kind of asinine stupidity is why so few girls are into gaming.


Thank goodness she won, at least. Guys like this seem to exist in every hobby and sport. Sad really.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Marauderlegion said:


> Oh man! Poor Spartan! What a dick!
> 
> Ye Gods, you're playing a girl, encourage her for god's sakes. This kind of asinine stupidity is why so few girls are into gaming.


Or they can grow thicker skin.


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## Jolnir (Feb 11, 2014)

Malus Darkblade said:


>





Malus Darkblade said:


> Or they can grow thicker skin.


Not a big fan of women gamers?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

I couldn't resist using the meme.

And where did I say/imply that I wasn't? I'm just of the opinion that to white-knight a woman by coddling her simply because of her gender is not the way to go about it.


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## The Final Frontier (Oct 15, 2011)

The CSM player has a tencsy of breaking things. I heard he ripped a Titan in two ten years ago


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Karthak said:


> "Checks currency converter". He risked destroying an item worth more than 120 euros because his opponent fielded female space marines? Now that's some expensive misogyny.


Putting his money where his mouth is? At least it sounds like he's unlikely to breed.


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## Marauderlegion (Nov 27, 2013)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> Putting his money where his mouth is? At least it sounds like he's unlikely to breed.


Lol, dude; you hope. Don't rule it out.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

The Final Frontier said:


> The CSM player has a tencsy of breaking things. I heard he ripped a Titan in two ten years ago


Then his issues are probably far more deep rooted than disagreements over Pseudo-Astartes and their fluffiness.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

BlackGuard said:


> Then his issues are probably far more deep rooted than disagreements over Pseudo-Astartes and their fluffiness.


Probably just extremely dedicated to khorne


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


>


See, this really only amuses me, since it seems pretty clear that the "hormonal balance means only MEN can become space marines, it's just the way it works" is a retcon/justification introduced to excuse the blatant, immature sexism of "only boys can be space marines because this is a boy's club and a boy's game and boys are badass and girls have cooties anyways."


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## DarkDisciple_Nahum (Oct 6, 2013)

Baron Spikey said:


> Made up fluff? Tell that to Kor Phareon of the Word Bearers and Luther of the Dark Angels, both of whom are pseudo-Astartes, the process that elevated them isn't discussed in depth certainly not in any manner that suggests it's reliant on gender to work.


As a Word Bearers and a Dark Angels player I completely agree with this statement. It is a viable idea.



hailene said:


> Dunno how they'd stand up TT-wise, though. We see Kor Paheron's stats in the FW book _Massacre_ and he's lacking the standard Astartes 4 toughness and four initiative--both of these are a regular human's 3.


This also brings up a good point. Over all its a fun idea and maybe something to look into, but sounds alot like SoB to me.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Mossy Toes said:


> See, this really only amuses me, since it seems pretty clear that the "hormonal balance means only MEN can become space marines, it's just the way it works" is a retcon/justification introduced to excuse the blatant, immature sexism of "only boys can be space marines because this is a boy's club and a boy's game and boys are badass and girls have cooties anyways."


Space marines recruit mostly from death worlds and primitive worlds that have high infant mortality rates. These worlds have low populations overall so losing healthy females means that future generations are at risk.

Losing a dozen males doesn't affect the overall breeding potential of the population, whereas losing the same number of females will.

On "civilized" worlds the problem is inverted, think about all the females you know, if we're going by astartes selection process how many would be chosen?


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

Reaper45 said:


> Space marines recruit mostly from death worlds and primitive worlds that have high infant mortality rates. These worlds have low populations overall so losing healthy females means that future generations are at risk.
> 
> Losing a dozen males doesn't affect the overall breeding potential of the population, whereas losing the same number of females will.
> 
> On "civilized" worlds the problem is inverted, think about all the females you know, if we're going by astartes selection process how many would be chosen?


You're reading too much into it, its made by guys (mostly) and its target market is almost entirely guys (the people who buy it), so its almost entirely about guys and catered for them.

if someone has a problem with basic economics and catering to specific population types, then make something that does what you want it to do instead of whine about how other people choose to make things, at least they are making something.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Lost&Damned said:


> You're reading too much into it, its made by guys (mostly) and its target market is almost entirely guys (the people who buy it), so its almost entirely about guys and catered for them.
> 
> if someone has a problem with basic economics and catering to specific population types, then make something that does what you want it to do instead of whine about how other people choose to make things, at least they are making something.


It's allot better explanation that something to do with chromosomes.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

The fluffy reasons why only men can become Space Marines needs to be upheld, albeit not to a fanatical level as the OP says. Games Workshop has earned a little respect from me by not simply going along with the times and changing things to suit the current social norms. They've stuck to their guns, for now.

The Sisters of Battle are exclusively female. Not because of some genetic or hormonal restrictions, but simply because they're exclusively female.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me one way or another, but I prefer the restrictions upon gender. It gives both the Marines and Sisters a unique feel.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well, if they were going to try and make something of a decent argument for only male marines, maybe the modifications are made to the code exist only on the Y chromosome? It would certainly be safer than tinkering with the X chromosome.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Damn! I wish I can throw away 150 bucks on fit of rage. 

I have to do laundry tonight? AAAAARG *Rips 400 dollar pay check* 

What a moron. There is a special place in the Warp for people like him. Slaanesh's dungeon of penetration!


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Where do necromancers go, Warlock ?


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## Ecumene (Oct 10, 2013)

According to scant few allusions, it seems making procedure of Pseudo-Astartes is quite different from normal, general Astartes. Thus I personally think it probably works on females.

Female Spartans do exist(and we know only to well average technology level of Imperium far exceeds that of UNSC). Female Mechanicum/Mechanicus(30k and 40k appellation, respectively) Adepts do exist. Thus it is reasonable to assume female Pseudo-Astates could exist in 40k-verse by any means.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

hailene said:


> Where do necromancers go, Warlock ?


Necros goes Nurgle. "Here in Nurgle's Garden, the undead rape you! Ha, Ha, Ha" The love of Grandfather Nurgle has no limits.

uke:


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Ecumene said:


> According to scant few allusions, it seems making procedure of Pseudo-Astartes is quite different from normal, general Astartes. Thus I personally think it probably works on females.
> 
> Female Spartans do exist(and we know only to well average technology level of Imperium far exceeds that of UNSC). Female Mechanicum/Mechanicus(30k and 40k appellation, respectively) Adepts do exist. Thus it is reasonable to assume female Pseudo-Astates could exist in 40k-verse by any means.


...... If you're serious, this is quite possibly the single dumbest thing I have ever read. However, if your joking and what you actually mean that 40k is a fictional universe in which you can do pretty much anything you want, regardless of real world science or rules established by other fictional universes, then sure.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

The real question that everyone is avoiding is ... was she attractive? I mean, cool she plays 40k and all but do ya want to put your penis in her?

Fuck!?! I am such an asshole. I still want an answer, but I am willing to admit that I am a dick.

OT: I actually think that is probably the best way to explain FSM that she wants to play. Fucking brilliant actually! Guy probably thought she was having a go at him by calling them pseudo-astartes and did not realize that the fluff actually provides the pseudo-astartes as an actual thing. Good for her. 

Threw a fucking tank? WTF? That is the same as me taking a torch to my Vance and Hines pipes for my Harley! I really can not understand just pissing away money like that. Fucktard.


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## Ecumene (Oct 10, 2013)

gen.ahab said:


> ...... If you're serious, this is quite possibly the single dumbest thing I have ever read. However, if your joking and what you actually mean that 40k is a fictional universe in which you can do pretty much anything you want, regardless of real world science or rules established by other fictional universes, then sure.



I indeed joked about the UNSC/Spartan thing(well, it is complicated. I will explain exact meaning later). But possibility about existence of female _pseudo_-Astartes(I consistently said Pseudo-Astartes, NOT the full-fledged, 'normal' Astartes)? I am deadly serious, really. I don't think it is possible creating _actual_ female Astartes, of course. Because it is canonically, irrevocably, utterly impossible, I always well know that fact. But in the 40k verse, reinforcing, augmenting and altering normal human through genetically, surgically and mechanically is definitely possible. All of pseudo-Astartes is 30k era is augmented precisely these ways by Mecanicum, without exception. As I already said, it seems pseudo-Astartes making process is fundamentally different from that of normal Astartes, and they could never become 'genuine' Astartes. Let's see. If Emperor delivered Angron's gladiator army, then his 'sisters' would have been become pseudo-Astartes, no doubt. That it is. And one of the Mecanicum minor factions, Organicists, is a group of Tech-priests who esteemed biological enhancement as being equal in value with the cybernetics, a somewhat radical if not heretical position among the adherents of the Cult Mechanicus. That is another reason(although kidding is the _majoris_ in area of Spartan, certainly), I cited both Spartan and Mecanicum as an feasible example-if they really want, they could devise similar means augmenting normal human to become pseudo-Astartes. That is actually quite mundane conduct they are doing on their own not-so-weak flesh, and at least partly because of that practices they are categorized as 'radical', after all.


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

Alternatively, we could all remember that at some point someone just made up the fluff we take as cannon. There are plenty of examples where GW change their own fluff because...it's made up. It's fiction. So who gives a fuck if you hold to a DIFFERENT fiction, especially if it helps that person to feel more included in the hobby.


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