# Tyranid Psykers



## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

Two questions: 

Since the Tyranid psykers do not draw their energy from the warp, then where does their power come from? 

I know that Tyranids cannot be corrupted by Chaos, but do the gods of Chaos feel the psychic presence of the Tyranids?


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

SoL Berzerker said:


> Since the Tyranid psykers do not draw their energy from the warp, then where does their power come from?


I always assume they ate psykers and tweaked the genetic template to work with the hive mind/synapse net (kind of like the Ork weirdboys drawing their power from other orks).




SoL Berzerker said:


> I know that Tyranids cannot be corrupted by Chaos, but do the gods of Chaos feel the psychic presence of the Tyranids?


I'd say yes. There is the Shadow in the Warp after all, which disrupts psykers' connection to the Warp in a given planetary system.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

SoL Berzerker said:


> Since the Tyranid psykers do not draw their energy from the warp, then where does their power come from?


Where did you get this? From the Tyranid codex:

"Despite [Zoanthropes'] instinctive command over their otherworldly abilities, *tapping into the power of the Warp is not without danger."*

Bold is mine.

I personally do not know the answer to your other question. I do not even know if they are incorruptible. Could you cite your source that states so?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Tyranid psykers draw on the gestalt consciousness of the Hive Mind. It is generated by tyranid numbers similar to the ork's own gestalt psychic field. 

Perils of the warp for tyranids is representative of them receiving feedback from the Hive Mind as a result of attempting to draw too much power. 

This psychic field casts a shadow in the warp. It is linked but the nids do not draw from the warp directly. I would assume the denizens of the warp can perceive this. As well as the Hive Mind and Shadow in the Warp, but whether they can actually combat it is another matter that official fluff has yet to cover. 

The tyranids seem incorruptible to the psychic allure of Chaos (synapse creatures at least), but like most beings of flesh they are not immune to the effects of physical corruption. They can be felled by Nurgle's Rot for instance.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Tyranid psykers draw on the gestalt consciousness of the Hive Mind. It is generated by tyranid numbers similar to the ork's own gestalt psychic field.


I can sorta see where you're coming from, but I do not believe the text reads as such.

It says, "Zoanthropes are created solely to harness the psychic potential of the Hive Mind..."

I do not believe that that they are using the Hive Mind to generate psyker-like abilities. They're utilizing the Hive Mind's ability to tap into the warp to use their psyker abilities.

It would be analogous to me tapping into my car's potential to allow me to travel very quickly. It's not the car itself that allows me to move quickly, technically, but rather the controlled explosion of gasoline. The car is but a means to use power to get what I want.



Serpion5 said:


> Perils of the warp for tyranids is representative of them receiving feedback from the Hive Mind as a result of attempting to draw too much power.


Interesting theory. How do you reconcile this with my earlier quote about zoanthropes tapping into the power of the warp?



Serpion5 said:


> This psychic field casts a shadow in the warp. It is linked but the nids do not draw from the warp directly. I would assume the denizens of the warp can perceive this. As well as the Hive Mind and Shadow in the Warp, but whether they can actually combat it is another matter that official fluff has yet to cover.


Interesting that the mutual psychic connection between the tyranids cause the Shadow of the Warp. I'd like to read up on it, since the codex itself is light on the details of the Shadow of the Warp. Could you point me to the source material?



Serpion5 said:


> The tyranids seem incorruptible to the psychic allure of Chaos (synapse creatures at least), but like most beings of flesh they are not immune to the effects of physical corruption. They can be felled by Nurgle's Rot for instance.


I don't recall much interaction between Chaos and Tyranids (minus the Tyranids eating some Chaos worlds). Where does it state that they're seemingly incorruptible? I do not think the fluff has touched on this, though I very likely may be wrong (Tyranids aren't exactly my strong suit).

I'd like to read up on this as well.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Page 33 of the Nid Codex says " They do not draw power from the warp in any fathomable way"


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Sneaky! I didn't read that before since I myself do not run a Tyranid army and it's not part of the "fluffy" sections. Interesting.

I looked down on page 62, where it lists all the psychic abilities. From the warp blast article it says "The Zoanthrope taps into the raw power of the Hive Mind, unleashing it as a blast of pure Warp Energy..."

Does that mean that they can generate Warp energy from something that isn't from the Warp? 

Or is the Hive Mind somehow part of, or partly in, the Warp?

You would think that you can't generate Warp power without it coming from, you know, the Warp?

Though the Hive Mind existing either partially or wholly in the Warp makes more sense...after all, how do they have rapid communication between their pieces unless the Warp was involved? Their thoughts seemingly travel much faster than light. Otherwise information would take decades or centuries to travel amongst even the closest tendrils of a hivefleet, much less different hive fleets. Coordination on a galactic level would be impossible without FTL communication.

Any other thoughts about a partial/whole Warp-based Hive Mind?


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

So... Tyranids do not draw from the warp, but generate warp power from the hive mind. Which isn't linked to the warp at all...

Seems legit.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Brother Subtle said:


> So... Tyranids do not draw from the warp, but generate warp power from the hive mind. Which isn't linked to the warp at all...
> 
> Seems legit.


Well, half the fun is trying to puzzle out things that seem to be flat out contradictions and make them make sense.

Anywho, off to bed. Will check up on this in the morning.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Orkish psychic power is warp derived, but they generate it separately from the warp itself and its power is derived from their numbers at any given time. 

It's the same principle with tyranids. Warp derived power, not drawn directly from the warp itself. 


Both races still reflect in the warp, orks via Gork and Mork and the tyranids via the Shadow in the Warp. It's not that complicated.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Given that the Hive Fleets don't have FTL travel, or warp travel it seems reasonable that they don't have FTL communications.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Orkish psychic power is warp derived, but they generate it separately from the warp itself and its power is derived from their numbers at any given time.
> 
> It's the same principle with tyranids. Warp derived power, not drawn directly from the warp itself.
> 
> ...


I guess not. Oooh look, blood just came out of my nose and ears.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Rems said:


> Given that the Hive Fleets don't have FTL travel, or warp travel it seems reasonable that they don't have FTL communications.


They do have FTL. The Narvhal organisms that form part of the Hive Fleets are able to latch onto a planet's gravity. They use this to create gravity wells that propel the fleets at hypervelocity towards the prey planet. Distance doesn't seem to be a huge factor mostly as they have done this across multiple solar systems. Slower than warp travel, but more reliable. And given the time frames between invasions of sectors and subsectors by known Hive Fleets, I am assuming that this means of travel is FTL. Not to mention how far across the galaxy they've travelled in a mere few centuries whilst preying on entire worlds. 

As for communications, if we presume the Shadow in the Warp to be the result of inter Hive telepathy (which according to canon it is) then they potentially have FTL communications as well. 


Info from the tyranid codex and the novel _Warriors of Ultramar_.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Ah i didn't realise the narvhal method was FTL.


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## SonofMalice (Feb 5, 2012)

I'm not entirely sold on the narvhal organism's explanation. As I remember doesn't the organism get slower the closer to the star it was manipulating? I don't see how that would work with a gravity well or how said gravity well from the star in question (it is stars they mess with to actually create these wells iirc) would reach out and pull them in at FTL speeds (which in itself doesn't make a ton of sense) and yet ANYTHING else in the path is be unaffected. It always struck me that this means of travel aside from making very little sense even to the non-physicist also means that there should be massive gravity surges across the universe as these organisms pull themselves closer and that as a result random planets, asteroids, even things like craftworlds should get caught in the eddies and feel the effects/get torn apart/get sucked towards the nids or the star in question. Oh well, maybe they will pull a necron and retcon this next dex.

As to the Zoanthropes I feel that all creatures that use psykers draw power from the warp at some level but that the means by which they do so vary considerably. With the Zoanthropes it seems that they are, like hive tyrants and other synapse creatures, created as psykers by the hive mind for the purpose of accessing the warp's energy. The Hive Mind doesn't seem to be drawing the power, merely directing and dictating the use of it. It is the psychic potential of the hive mind as a whole that lets such creatures access the powers but it isn't channeled through them from some outside source. 

As mentioned in the codex the overloads come not from over tapping the hive mind but from harnessing the energies they wield. That energy is warp energy as seen with their wrap shield and warp lance. The wording of the codex suggests that it is the Zoanthrope that has the power (as a quote to back this up "...with so much of its mental prowess focused on unleashing the psychic powers at ITS (caps mine) command the Zoanthrope has little time to think for itself). What it sound like here is like I said earlier, namely, that the tyranids create psychically attuned creatures to tap the warp (as serp said in a like manner to the Orkish wierdboyz and the wagggghhh) but that it isn't warp power coming from the hive mind, the hive mind only directs the uses of it.


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## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

Rems said:


> Given that the Hive Fleets don't have FTL travel, or warp travel it seems reasonable that they don't have FTL communications.


They actually do have FTL communication, to a certain extent. Hive Fleets that have never met before have been found to share adaptations. So if one fleet has never battled with the Eldar yet, they will still have mutations capable of fighting the Eldar at the ready simply because other fleets have fought the Eldar. Same principle follows with the Swarmlord. He is not bound to any one Hive Fleet, his consciousness can travel at will to whatever part of any fleet he wants to go to. 

Zoanthropes do not get their powers from the warp; "Zoanthropes are created solely to harness the psychic potential of the Hive Mind." Pg. 44 Tyranids Codex. So the Hive Mind in and of itself is a generator of psychic power. "They do not draw from the power of the warp in any fathomable way." Pg 33 Tyranids Codex.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

It seems obvious to me that warp power can only come from the warp. Now the Tyranid codex directly states that their warp power comes from the Hive Mind. I don't see why (or how) these two statements should be mutually exclusive. The Tyranid organism draws its power from the Hive Mind which in turn draws its power from the warp. If the warp is a wild stream than the Hive Mind is a large bucket occasionally dipped into that stream and the Zoanthrope's powers are the devices which utilize the water from the bucket. It's ultimately the same water as that from the stream though, its just that the risks are lessened somewhat (at presumably the cost of really high end uses, which is why we have yet to see Alpha + psykers in the Tyranids and probably never will). I'd imagine the Orks use a similar method, just the bucket changes size depending on how many of them there are.


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## SonofMalice (Feb 5, 2012)

MEQinc said:


> It seems obvious to me that warp power can only come from the warp. Now the Tyranid codex directly states that their warp power comes from the Hive Mind. I don't see why (or how) these two statements should be mutually exclusive. The Tyranid organism draws its power from the Hive Mind which in turn draws its power from the warp. If the warp is a wild stream than the Hive Mind is a large bucket occasionally dipped into that stream and the Zoanthrope's powers are the devices which utilize the water from the bucket. It's ultimately the same water as that from the stream though, its just that the risks are lessened somewhat (at presumably the cost of really high end uses, which is why we have yet to see Alpha + psykers in the Tyranids and probably never will). I'd imagine the Orks use a similar method, just the bucket changes size depending on how many of them there are.


If we still had rep I would be showering it on you. This a very good analysis and analogy :biggrin:


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

MEQinc said:


> I'd imagine the Orks use a similar method, just the bucket changes size depending on how many of them there are.


I was skimming through the Ork codex and their Weirdboyz draw power from other Orks' "orkiness". The first thing that popped into my mind was the Grey Knights.

Sure, the fluff for the Orks came before the most recent GK codex but similar concept, right? 

Maybe all Orks are psykers, one way or another, just that most Orks aren't strong enough by themselves to use their power. They have to have a more potent psyker tap into their well?


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## Word Bearer 81007 (Aug 5, 2012)

hailene said:


> I was skimming through the Ork codex and their Weirdboyz draw power from other Orks' "orkiness". The first thing that popped into my mind was the Grey Knights.
> 
> Sure, the fluff for the Orks came before the most recent GK codex but similar concept, right?
> 
> Maybe all Orks are psykers, one way or another, just that most Orks aren't strong enough by themselves to use their power. They have to have a more potent psyker tap into their well?


you are pretty much right in regards to orks. all orks are psyker's or have a psyker presence. hence the weirdness of clunking guns firing without ammo or red vehicles going faster. weirdboyz tap into the psyker energy that is created by the massive amounts of orks that form during waaaaarrrggghhhs!


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