# Kick-starting Warriors of Chaos



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Hey all,

I want to start a new Fantasy army (I played four games with my Very Few Orcs and Many Goblins list and got frustrated by animosity and bored of painting green), and the Warriors of Chaos drew me in. I love everything about them, and with Christmas looming I think it's a good time to try and kick-start.

The only stuff I know about Chaos is the army list that GW printed in a White Dwarf a year or two ago, my experiences with CSM in 40k.

So, what to put down on my christmas list? A battalion is an obvious starting point, but from there where do I go? (I'll get the book myself in two or three weeks, so no point asking for that) 

Can anyone please answer these questions too?

1: Are Chaos Lords < Daemon Princes and vice versa, or are they incomparable?
2: Are Chaos Knights as nasty as Games Workshop make them out to be?
3: Is Chaos Magic as badass as the models?
4: Is Eye of the Gods useful in game? (It looks nice in theory but I don't now how many characters there are on your opponent's side in Fantasy)

Thanks,
Midnight


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## VeronaKid (Jan 7, 2010)

All good questions. I'll see what I can do in the ten minutes I have:



MidnightSun said:


> So, what to put down on my christmas list? A battalion is an obvious starting point, but from there where do I go? (I'll get the book myself in two or three weeks, so no point asking for that)
> 
> After the batallion box, I'd look at bulking out your Warriors regiments. They are, undoubtedly, the best units that WoC have, and you'll need as many as you can get into your list. The models are ace, too. If you want to have any shooting in the army, look no further than the Hellcannon model. Super cool story, rules, and minature.
> 
> ...


Good luck!


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> A battalion is an obvious starting point, but from there where do I go? (I'll get the book myself in two or three weeks, so no point asking for that)


An obvious one... but not necessarily right. This is my personal taste, but I find that Hounds are terrible, and Knights are not as amazing as they used to be. I also don't like Marauders at all. Depending on how you feel, buying several boxes of Warriors and a Lord might be better.



MidnightSun said:


> 1: Are Chaos Lords < Daemon Princes and vice versa, or are they incomparable?


The general consensus is that Daemon Princes are terrible. Extremely.




MidnightSun said:


> 2: Are Chaos Knights as nasty as Games Workshop make them out to be?


They are still very killy, but no longer able to take on entire units by themselves and win. A better flanking unit you will not find though.



MidnightSun said:


> 3: Is Chaos Magic as badass as the models?


I like Tzeentch. I think that the lesser power level of the spells is compensated for by the lower casting costs, which means you get them off more reliably than other armies. Gateway is still extremely powerful, regardless of anything.



MidnightSun said:


> 4: Is Eye of the Gods useful in game? (It looks nice in theory but I don't now how many characters there are on your opponent's side in Fantasy)


Eye of the Gods is useful, but not in the way it was intended. It is useful for Trolls regenerating (nothing like regen-ing 3 wounds and randomly gaining +1 Attack for every model in the unit) and for War Shrine spamming. Individual characters almost never benefit from it, which is a shame, because it's vaguely thematic.

That's my opinion, anyway, take what you will from it!


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

same as above, (VeronaKid) cant really sum it up better

only diffidence is. 
3: Is Chaos Magic as badass as the models? 
l do love my Chaos magic and l think it can do well vs the new 8th ed rule book ones the only one l have not had any luck with is MoS.

the other cool thing about chaos you can paint them many different ways (l run 3 different colors) so you will not be bored with painting them.

as for what models to get next that really depends on your army.

For example if you find you really love Tzec then you are going to want a mage on a disk ASAP and also a Warshine (build it your self) on the other hand if you like Khorne you be looking for a badass Khorne lord etc. also note if you want to have fluff there is a model with each of the marks. :wink:

Dam sethis ninja me.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Veronakid, thanks for getting back so swiftly, +rep. What should the Warrior regiments go up to, 20 or 30? I'm probably going to have something like this eventually:
Lord on Jugger (I will look at that model daily now)
Tzeentch Sorceror (on disc?)
Nurgle BSB (May change the mark though)
Chaos Giant (Funny!)
Lots of Chaos Warriors
Medium-sized unit of Chosen, purely on the basis of the models
Warshrine? (I'd love to convert one or two of these)
Chaos Knights
Dragon Ogres (Again, a maybe. Definitely a big yes if they bring out some new models more in line with the Shaggoth)
Shaggoth (Either this or Giant, I don't earn enough to buy both!)

Midnight

EDIT: Damnit, ninja'd twice in my own thread. But thanks anyway, you adorable black-clad stealth artists.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> Veronakid, thanks for getting back so swiftly, +rep. What should the Warrior regiments go up to, 20 or 30
> l always run 21 Warriors
> 
> Lord on Jugger (I will look at that model daily now)
> ...


dam there seems to be ninjas everywhere today


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

May as well throw my two cents in (Even though Sithis already pointed out much of what I would have said)

1. DP = Magic casting monstrous creatures that die way to easily to ranged attacks (Especially in the current edition 14 hand gun shots can, and often do kill these things in one volley). Lords on the other hand are you the bread, and butter of your army (However the best way to use them is either in huge numbers with almost no upgrades, or as incredibly expensive death machines that can kite everything up to a dragon.

2. Knights ain't nearly as powerful as they were, in fact if your not using them to support a combat or hold a flank your either going to get ground down over 1-3 turns or get shot to hell (Also they are way to expensive to go war machine hunting in most cases). Still they have some of the best stats for cavalry, and are always st5 in combat with magical attacks so don't underestimate them.

3. Chaos magic is kinda underpowered compared to the vast majority of the lores in the main rule book these days, but still holds its own especially in the Tzeentch department. Also chaos has access to some of the best magic phase effecting items in the game still.

4. Eye of the gods can be useful, but not for the your HQ, since on average they will get to roll 1-2 in a entire game and by then it won't really matter. Better to use a shrine on a unit of chosen turn 1 or get some regenerating trolls. (I once had my Chosen walking around with T5, and a 2+ armor save on turn 1 "Note this was last edition).


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> 1: Are Chaos Lords < Daemon Princes and vice versa, or are they incomparable?


Chaos Lords aren't really that viable - too expensive, and damn killy, but not enough so these days. Even the 12 Possible Attkacs they can get when backed up by Chaos Warriors with Halberds is unlikely to cause enough damage to remove Steadfast.

Daemon Princes lack the staying power afforded to Chaos Lords - although Flying means they are fairly capable Caster/Magicians.

Either way, Sorceror Lords are the prime choice - especially as unmarked they are the only way (aside from Unmarked Princes) who can take the Lore of Shadow.


> 2: Are Chaos Knights as nasty as Games Workshop make them out to be?


Stats wise, they're among the deadliest models in Fantasy, especially when you throw in a Mark - point for point, even a single unit (about 270pts for 5 models) was capable of breaking most armies battle lines. With the new "to hit" table, new rules for fear, Steadfast, Step Up, supporting attacks, and the like, whereas your Knights of Khorne with 15 S5 Attacks and 10 S4 Attacks could kill the 7-8 models in base contact, and then rely on their Dynamic Combat Resolution to beat the Static Combat resolution (usually about 10-11 versus 5), they were in severe hurt.

These days, you're looking at 15 S5 attacks, which strike in Init order, and 5 S4 Attacks, also in Init Order, with perhaps 7-8 wounds, against enemies who could strike first, which is a two fold effect on the Dynamic effect - each wound on you is a potential +4 CR less for you, and +1 for the enemy. Even if you do cause enough wounds to win that Combat, you've then got a unit which is most likely steadfast (Always test on best available unmodified Leadership), with a General (Ld9-10) and BSB (reroll failed test). So you've spent 300pts on something likely to be destroyed in two turns.



> 3: Is Chaos Magic as badass as the models?


In a way. It's definately not a must take over the Normal Lores these days (lacking the boosted Spells, Lore Attributes, and Signature spells) and Tzeentch is only one taken regularly as it must be taken if you want the +1 to cast and ward saves.

Nurgle and Tzeentch are better to back up an initial Lore - and Nurgle works well with anything that Lowers Toughness/Strength - a Curse of the Leper at the right time can wipe out a unit in two turns, while the low strength of Plague Squall is less of an issue.

Slaanesh, has some synergy with Tzeentch (there's a spell which allows you to cause enemies to not use characters leadership for any reason), as they have a couple of Ld based tests, but un/fortunately, Lash is not the game breaker it is in 40K.


> 4: Is Eye of the Gods useful in game? (It looks nice in theory but I don't now how many characters there are on your opponent's side in Fantasy)


Not too gamechanging, and as your combat characters have the edge (Exalted Heroes have normal Lord level combat stats), it doesn't make the difference in the long run. The notable exception of course is a unit of Chosen with a Favour of the Gods, joined by a Character with the Mask of Eee!, backed up by Dual Warshrine, who can usually get the most useful set of abilities (giving them if lucky, +1S, +1A, and a 4+ (boosted to 3+ in Tzeentch) Ward Save.)



> Lord on Jugger (I will look at that model daily now)
> Expensive, and the 1+ AS is nice. The main benefit of it in the past was the -1+ Armour Save. That's not available any more. It has the "Stomp" rule, which is okay, but not enough to make it powerful enough to base an army around if you're going for competitive. It's Frenzy is a bit better, though, as it means that you can put it in a unit, and provide +4 rather than +2 to the number of models in the unit, for rank sizing, without haring off after some bastard Light Cav.
> Tzeentch Sorceror (on disc?)
> Never leave home without one, personally. The model's sexy, the Lore is naughty, and if a Lord, can get a potential +7 to cast spells.
> ...


All the best.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I run things a little differently than most, it seems.

-I like units of 19 Warriors, led by a hero. A lot of folks like the six-wide formation-- I prefer to have the extra ranks, and if I need to expand my frontage, I can do so. It's a narrower footprint on the table, and with Warriors, who already have more attacks than the majority of enemy units anyway, the difference between five and six wide in attacking is negligible. 

-Chaos Knights are still a good unit. Intercept enemy cavalry with them rather than try to blow through enemy infantry. They're the best cavalry in the game, so you won't have any issues riding through an enemy unit of cavalry, which most likely won't be Steadfast by the time you've finished a round of combat.

-The rulebook lores are better than the Chaos lores at the moment, but your sorcerers have access to Fire and Death if you don't mark them, and Death is one of the best of the rulebook lores, I think. The Chaos lores are still good too, though-- there are some really indispensable spells in the Lore of Nurgle which make it possible to handle Empire and Dwarves, who otherwise just shoot you full of holes.

-Chosen aren't bad. Give the unit champion Favor of the Gods and you've got a pretty good way to get something you'll like off the Eye of the Gods table. The warshrine isn't necessary with them-- the Eye has some good stuff, but not worth spending points to gain additional rolls on for a unit that's already superior to everything else on the table as it is.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks a lot, I will probably end up with a Slaanesh giant over a Shaggoth due to cost (Points and Pounds). I don't think I'll do any obviously Slaaneshi conversions, just purple, pink and black cloth on him. For Lords/Heroes, possibly a Sorceror Lord and a couple of the Hero level wannabe-Chaos Lords, don't know the name. Two or three units of Warriors led by Champions, one with mark of Khorne and one with Mark of Tzeentch (Probably, not sure about any marks yet). One unit of Marauders, one unit of Chaos Knights, and the Giant. Maybe a unit of Dragon Ogres, points permitting.

As for the JuggerLord, I've looked throught the WoC WD and think I prefer the Lord on Daemonic Steed better, so if I have a Chaos Lord in the army it'll be that one.

Thanks again,
Midnight


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## Grim Jaw (Apr 19, 2008)

One simple rule - WoC with Halberds in as many units as possible in ranging from 18 to 30 strong, there is pretty much no other unit they can come up against that they can not either, take on there own, or with the correct support kill without too much difficulty.

Good magic back up is the main requirement, so Sorcerer Lord over chaos lord every time, even if just for defence, then you just need to be prepared to be shot a lot sometimes, which is where multiple units come in, too many targets, something will make it through.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Halberds? I was thinking shield and hand weapon, but is that not a good idea?

Midnight


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## Grim Jaw (Apr 19, 2008)

Halberds and Shields, you will likely get shot on your way in, 3+ save is very useful for maximising the number that make it through. But Halberds, because you then have a good number of attacks still, but WS 5, S 5 and I 5. You can then wound pretty much anyone else's core choices easily, and - 2 save.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Still I find Khornate warriors with two hand weapons are infinitely better. Seriously there is no comparing 4 str4 attacks to 2 str5 attacks (Got to love the new frenzy roles), still don't risk it unless its only on one large unit with the army general, and the battle standard (Reroll-able Ld9 almost guarantees they won't run forward like idiots). Still the fallowing builds are also fairly acceptable ways to run your WOC warriors.

halberd + with or without mark of Nurgle
Shield + mark of Tzeentch
Note: Mark of Slaanesh is still viable it is just not nearly as important as it was last edition.


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