# Increasing Quality of Horus Heresy Novels



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

The Horus Heresy is a great series and its something that every single 40k fan wants to read about, people may dislike certain factions or certain characters but I doubt there is a 40k fan alive who doesn't like the Horus Heresy. But lets face it, there have been some disappointments within the series. _Battle for the Abyss_ is the most disliked, but _Descent of Angels_ and _Nemesis_ have their critics. No series is perfect, perfection being an illusion of fools, but it has its flaws and we all recognize them along with its successes.

Yet recently, in fact as of _A Thousand Sons_, the Heresy series has increased in quality by a staggering amount. Not only has _A Thousand Sons_ been the first Black Library book to reach the New York Times Bestseller List, a huge achievement for writers, but since then _Nemesis_ and _The First Heretic_ have both reached this list, and _Prospero Burns_ will more than likely follow. And not just in sales but in the quality of the stories, the characters and just about everything in the books has gotten a lot better.

Why do you all think this is?, is it merely that the writers are putting in more effort?. Is it that the Fall of Prospero, the Word Bearers as architects of the Heresy, and Assassin Clades are more interesting to read about than Horus and his Luna Wolves falling from grace or the origins of the Dark Angels legion?. Is it that the books are being given more priority?, more collaboration between authors?, more interesting characters are being created besides Garviel Loken and Saul Tarvitz?, or is it just simply that better authors are being given more reign within the Heresy?.

I personally think that the writing is better. The newer books are so much more capturing than the others, it took me quite some time to finish _Horus Rising_ and _Legion_, yet I finished _The First Heretic_ in two days and I received _Prospero Burns_ yesterday afternoon and read 4 chapters, then finished it around 4.00pm today. The topics are more interesting ill admit, after all Word Bearers are one of my favourite Traitor Legions and ADB writing about them is just the immense chocolate piece in the ice-cream, but I don't like the Space Wolves and Dan Abnett isn't one of my favourite authors, and yet I couldn't put _Prospero Burns_ down today, I simply had to keep reading. But I don't think its just the topics.

With the current Heresy roster of Graham McNeill, busy writing his next Heresy novel about Terra, Astropaths and Space Marines whose loyalty is unclear, Dan Abnett with Prospero Burns fresh from the stores, Aaron Dembski-Bowden who despite having only three books under his belt at the time is now a Heresy author, James Swallow who does have his critics but I enjoy his work, even if his terminology needs to be edited a bit, and newcomer Gav Thorpe who will be writing a Heresy novel for release hopefully next year, the Heresy has never been better.


On a side-note I cannot wait for Graham McNeill's next Heresy novel as it will feature something in-depth that has never been done before. Terra. We will finally get to see the cradle of mankind, birthplace of the Emperor and his Astartes legions in detail. We've seen small bits of it, heard about many of its continents with names oh-so familiar to us, but we've never seen in in depth, never had a story that could take us anywhere on the planet. Can't wait to see it, only Graham McNeill knows but we may even get to see the Golden Palace and its vast cities within.


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

The only problem I have with Heresy Novels in general is that some authors really try to make the Heresy in their own image. Or at least it seems to me. Some authors make specifics and ignore other books specifics. I have had some quotes I have just recently thrown around from a particular author. Even he admits, they/ "we make it up." And as we have seen somethings just contradict or don't work coherently with one another. 

And I don't think its lack of communication. They are a Heresy Team for crying out loud. It just seems we (on this site) keep a better record than the writers due about certain things. But again, I think its the authors (some more than others) trying to throw their name and ideas around.

As to appreciating certain books more than others, I think it comes down to choice. In my opinion _Nemesis_, and _Legion_, where two of the hardest books too read for me. But I still think _Legion_ was a great book. So when I mean hard to read, I don't mean its a bad book. Hell! Look at _Battle of the Abyss_. That books sucked but I got through that shit pretty easily. Preference in style of book. And I'm glad there are a lot of styles. Graham McNeill for examples tends to over glorify legions/chapters. Dan Abnett focus' on character development.


----------



## vaul117 (Dec 8, 2010)

I would be very interested in a book taking place on Terra, they should flesh out the early plot a bit better. The only issue I have is that I want to see some more original writing. A lot of the plots with space marines are essentially the same. Huge battle, manipulative bad guy, somebody close to main character goes heretical, another huge battle, lots of good guys die, they win.............. (or did they?). I get a little bored with the same stuff over and over. I would like to see more on the Tau myself.


----------



## seb2351 (Oct 11, 2010)

vaul117 said:


> I would be very interested in a book taking place on Terra, they should flesh out the early plot a bit better. The only issue I have is that I want to see some more original writing. A lot of the plots with space marines are essentially the same. Huge battle, manipulative bad guy, somebody close to main character goes heretical, another huge battle, lots of good guys die, they win.............. (or did they?). I get a little bored with the same stuff over and over. I would like to see more on the Tau myself.


That might be difficult, the Tau were not around during the Heresy


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Maybe I'll change my mind with _Prospero Burns_ but _Legion_ is still the best Horus Heresy book in my opinion (and if I may be so bold, Angel of Blood and CotE's opinion as well). So no I don't think the quality has improved over time, I just think the recognition and sales have- you don't necessarily have to write a good book to get on the New York Times Bestsellers list, just a popular and well publicised one.

_Horus Rising_, _Fulgrim_, and _Mechanicum_ are better than _Nemesis_, _Legion_ better than _The First Heretic_ and _A Thousand Sons_ (again in my opinion)- so it's the writers who determine the quality of the novels, not any progression in overall quality...


----------



## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Maybe I'll change my mind with _Prospero Burns_ but _Legion_ is still the best Horus Heresy book in my opinion.


And mine.

That said, I think the general spread of opinion that the Heresy has improved recently is hard to deny, and it's voiced from a lot of corners, though that's more due to the writers hitting their strides than anything else. But, _Legion_ is still my favourite - and the one I consider the best-written - by a million, billion miles.


----------



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Maybe I'll change my mind with _Prospero Burns_ but _Legion_ is still the best Horus Heresy book in my opinion (and if I may be so bold, Angel of Blood and CotE's opinion as well). So no I don't think the quality has improved over time, I just think the recognition and sales have- you don't necessarily have to write a good book to get on the New York Times Bestsellers list, just a popular and well publicised one.
> 
> _Horus Rising_, _Fulgrim_, and _Mechanicum_ are better than _Nemesis_, _Legion_ better than _The First Heretic_ and _A Thousand Sons_ (again in my opinion)- so it's the writers who determine the quality of the novels, not any progression in overall quality...


Thats not completely true. If a Horus Heresy book was bad and the reviews said so then many people would avoid purchasing it, hurting the sales. Quality does help when working to achieve something like the New York Times List.

The best Horus Heresy book in my opinion is _The First Heretic_, and is currently my favourite of my book collection. Aside from that my favourites are _A Thousand Sons_, _Prospero Burns_ and _Fulgrim_ from second to last. Though _Fulgrim_ will always be special for me as it was the very first Black Library book I bought.


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

That's why I said it doesn't *necessarily* have to be a good book- an average book that is eagerly anticipated could conceivably make it on the bestselllers list (happened with _Nemesis _after all).


----------



## Shadow Walker (Jun 10, 2010)

I agree with The Baron's opinion with two exceptions: I like A Thousand Sons more than Legion [which is my second favourite HH book] and I think Nemesis is not average but horrible book [only one worse is Battle for the Abyss].


----------



## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

I have always liked Legion most, followed by Thousand Sons, Horus Rising and First heretic which i just read. It was just perfect book and made think what are those guys up to. Also Grammaticus was fantastic.

Hope to get Prospero Burns soon. But after these last books, Age of Darkness cant be anywhere near them. Just wondering how long will Heresy books still continue? Another 10 books maybe, perhaps even more but hope they are not pushing it too far and make uninteresting filler stories.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> Maybe I'll change my mind with _Prospero Burns_ but _Legion_ is still the best Horus Heresy book in my opinion (and if I may be so bold, Angel of Blood and CotE's opinion as well). So no I don't think the quality has improved over time, I just think the recognition and sales have- you don't necessarily have to write a good book to get on the New York Times Bestsellers list, just a popular and well publicised one.
> 
> _Horus Rising_, _Fulgrim_, and _Mechanicum_ are better than _Nemesis_, _Legion_ better than _The First Heretic_ and _A Thousand Sons_ (again in my opinion)- so it's the writers who determine the quality of the novels, not any progression in overall quality...


Yup, Legion is the best HH book imo aswell, even after reading Prospero Burns, which is just, just behind Legion. Horus Rising will always be one of the best aswell, as Abnett turning Horus into such an amazingly likeable character was an outstanding bit of writing. Mechanicum was also a refrshing change of scenery and pace and brilliantly written, want to see more of those Knights. I think i'm one of the few who really liked Flight of the Eisenstien aswell, maybe it's just because that was one of my favourite little bits of the HH before the books were written.


----------



## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Angel of Blood said:


> I think i'm one of the few who really liked Flight of the Eisenstien aswell, maybe it's just because that was one of my favourite little bits of the HH before the books were written.


I really enjoyed it as well, the only ones to beat it for me are _A Thousand Sons_ and _First Heretic_. I can understand the love for _Legion_, but it doesn't rate highly for me because it seemed incomplete. It really needs a follow up. Hopefully we'll get one eventually.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Personally I don't think there has been an increase in quality. 

I think the more recent releases (notably _A Thousand Sons_/_Prospero Burns_ and _The First Heretic_) that have generally been universally praised greatly benefit from the plot as well as the writing/author. Let's face it, the Burning of Prospero and the foundations of the Heresy itself are two very interesting, exciting and enthralling plots. Something which in my opinion just gives off an illusion of increased quality because of the increased (or peaked) enjoyment factor. We only need to look back to the opening novel to see that the quality hasn't really improved. And aside from that, _Nemesis_ (also being a recent addition) wasn't a strong or powerful addition to the Heresy series at all in my opinion, and im sure there will be other novels before the series is finished that will draw more than an average amount of criticism.



Khorne's Fist said:


> but it doesn't rate highly for me because it seemed incomplete. It really needs a follow up. Hopefully we'll get one eventually.


I don't think thats really a valid criticism for a novel. Especially considering Mcneill thinks it likely that at least one more Alpha Legion novel will be written before the series is out.


----------



## FORTHELION (Nov 21, 2009)

I have to disagree with you cote why is it not a valid critisism? The novel just ended leaving us all to wonder and debate exactly what happened. It definately needs a second novel to explain how Alpharius/Omegon actually contact Horus to declare their loyalty.
Also as a side note i think i can recall you saying the same thing about decent of angels, it being an ok book but the sequel made it better. (correct me if im wrong because im not a 100% sure.) My apologies if i am wrong.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

FORTHELION said:


> I have to disagree with you cote why is it not a valid critisism?


Because a book should be judged on it's merits alone, not because of an individual thinking it would benefit from a sequel.



FORTHELION said:


> The novel just ended leaving us all to wonder and debate exactly what happened.


That was the whole point. It was a novel about the Alpha Legion, _Secrets and Lies_ and all that. We were meant to be left guessing at their motives. It would detract from the whole mysterious and secretive nature that is the Alpha Legion's trademark if everything was explained and portrayed in black and white.



FORTHELION said:


> It definately needs a second novel to explain how Alpharius/Omegon actually contact Horus to declare their loyalty.


I don't think it *needs* a second novel or sequel at all. I think it would be perfectly justified if a plot gap was left between the end of _Legion_ and the Alpha Legion's subsequent involvement in the Heresy.



FORTHELION said:


> Also as a side note i think i can recall you saying the same thing about decent of angels, it being an ok book but the sequel made it better. (correct me if im wrong because im not a 100% sure.) My apologies if i am wrong.


Not that I can recall.


----------



## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

I have only been reading HH and warhammer in general for around 3 months and I really don't think the quality every dropped by any large degree. I LOVED the opening trilogy and liked how it portrayed horus, his legion and their falls. I am now on A thousand sons and loving it.

Most the other books have been excellent, battle for the abyss was a bit 'by the numbers' but action packed so easy to read in a few days. 

I would say that a series like this is getting strong through word of mouth a LOT. I mean prospero burns is currently #1 for pre orders on play.com and amazon.com that are 2 of the largest book retailers in the world. The series has always been excellent, a story that is consistently good is bound to pick up a following and BL will want to keep it good to keep the following. A single weak link like Battle for the Abyss again and the series could loose its momentum. But for now its looking good for any fan of the series.

And I didn't hate descent of angels... but I did read fallen angels straight after and it was a LOT better. Mike King is a great author and 'The wolf at the Door' for Tales of heresy was brilliant as well. I hope we get a third Dark Angel book soon.

As for another Alpha legion book, no the series doesn't need it. But if they do it as well as it was done in legion it would be another welcome addition.


----------



## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

Personally I can not get enough of Fulgrim, absolute favorite book...followed by Thousand Sons. I love the detail and scale of McNeil I suppose but series as a whole still rocks


----------



## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

I am inclined to agree with CotE, in that I don't really think that the quality of books has increased in such a manner that would reflect in NYT sales charts. While the series has progressed, I think that it has benefited from WH40K reaching a wider audience than just the gamers that it once appealed to.

For instance, take Dark Angel. He is an avid fan of the Black Library that has never played the tabletop game. While these readers-not players-are probably in the minority, an increase in their numbers as they are drawn into the Horus Heresy would reflect on sales. As more and more people are attracted to the fiction, a much higher number will then be awaiting for each of the new installments of the Horus Heresy, which (in my mind) is why the latest novels have achieved nore initial commercial success than their predecessors.

Lastly, Legion is still the best HH novel


----------



## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

I think that quality maybe has not increased so much, just the HH series is gaining more popular after so many books. There will always be some books to longer series that will disappoint many people. Just look at many TV-series. Sometimes when you just prolong series too much, there will be filler episodes and people run out of ideas. Of course WH40k backround is really rich and people could write hundreds of novels, but i hope that stories and writing itself will be same or even better.

I started playing WH40k tabletop when Rogue traders came out, continued until 3ed maybe if i recall, but started to see these million rules that didnt make any sense except to just bring these models to table. After that started to play again real boardgames and im really happy to spend 200 euro on buing different games instead of putting every penny on one game with mediocore-bad rules. Still look pics of new minis everytime and im really impressed by quality. But its the WH40k world and backround which keeps me reading BL novels.


----------



## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

I have never read anything set in 40k or warhammer fantasy. ALL I have read is the horus heresy up to a thousand sons. So I don't have any basis of comparison. It is also why I struggled with legion as I didn't know anything about the imperial guard.

What do you guys recommend I read first after I catch up with the heresy?


----------



## Shadow Walker (Jun 10, 2010)

I recommend Titanicus. It has some parts directly related to HH, amezing movie like descriptions of Titans battles and simply is in my opinion best book ever printed by BL. Also good read is Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer that give you great insight of how you are screwd when you join IG.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

raider1987 said:


> I have never read anything set in 40k or warhammer fantasy. ALL I have read is the horus heresy up to a thousand sons. So I don't have any basis of comparison. It is also why I struggled with legion as I didn't know anything about the imperial guard.
> 
> What do you guys recommend I read first after I catch up with the heresy?


Gaunts Ghosts for sure. A: it will get you aqquainted with the Imperial Guard B: its pretty much the best book series ever made.

Eisenhorn aswell is excellent and will introduce the Inquisition to you.

The Space Wolves omnibus is meant to be excellent though i haven't got round to reading it yet.

Soul Hunter and Lord of the Night are both simply amazing and good for reading about the Night Lords

But i would say start with Gaunts Ghosts, its simply epic


----------



## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

I should recommend following:

Ciaphas Cain series
Gaunt Ghost series
Eisenhorn 
Titanicus

Gaunts series is rather long to read, but is quite good. Ciaphas simply the best hero on BL arsenal, atleast most human. Eisenhorn has good insight in imperial life. Titanicus has good battlescenes and overall is very good book. Dont pickup more Marine books in awhile, try read those.


----------



## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

Definitely Gaunt' Ghosts (starting with The Founding omnibus). Caiaphas Cain is also an incredibly good series, with a much more humorous lean than any other BL novels.

As far as standalone works, Cadian Blood is an excellent IG novel (haven't read Redemption Corps or the other newer ones, yet) and Relentless is a good look into the Imperial Navy, and is really about as grim dark as it gets.


----------



## mussbello (Nov 17, 2010)

I would disagree that the later heresy books are better. I have read up to and including -- ' A Thousand Sons' - and for me the one that really stands out is 'Fulgrim'. That final scene is just brilliantly chilling. For me it perfectly captured the feel of chaos and the horror of a legion falling to it.


----------



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

I think I'm going to have to disagree to be honest.

If we were to do a graph that charted the release of each book, with my own (yes, just mine) opinion of it, it wouldn't be a straight line upwards.

I think your missing the fact that the 'Original Trilogy' detailing the fall of Horus, is general considered to be the best of the bunch, so in many ways it started off strong, slumped a bit (_Battle for the Abyss_ / _Mechanicum_) then has gone back up again with _Thousand Sons _and _The First Heretic._ 

But everyones' opinion is going to be different. 

I've heard people call _Legion _crap, although it is very popular. And the Dark Angels double bill is generally considered very weak, but I really enjoyed the two of them, _Fallen Angels_ being really good IMO.

So everyones' opinion varies.

So long as they keep stretching out the series (without going overboard) I'll be very happy as I think it's great that the series has turned into such a large undertaking, instead of being rushed and overwith too quickly.

Finally I also remember an author either Abnett or Mcneill I think, saying that at the end it would be great for each of the HH authors to get to write a novel about just the Battle for Terra, but each from a different perspective.

So if you are listening, (not that my opinion matters for much lol) but please do that! As it would be awesome in my opinion.


----------

