# New Demon Codex



## The Deserter (May 28, 2007)

I've heard that there is a new demon codex coming out later this year. does anyone know more information about this? I already know that coming with it is a plastic generic greater demon but what I really want to know is if the Demon Prince can get a power sword in this codex.


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## DarknessDawns (Oct 21, 2007)

does this mean that if theis codex comes out that deamons will be a whole different race?


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## The Deserter (May 28, 2007)

Sayes in white dwarf 
"Codex Demonica is already in developement. To include all twenty or so daemonic troop types would have required loads more space in the chaos codex thats aready 104 pages in length. This way the focus remains on the chaos and the demons will get their own army."
So maybe. 

Just hopefully you can still feild things from the demon codex in a chaos army without too much hassle


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## Triumph Of Man (Dec 27, 2007)

From the rumours I've heard, they're supposed to be mostly uncompatible. 



> I already know that coming with it is a plastic generic greater demon but what I really want to know is if the Demon Prince can get a power sword in this codex.


I take it you're not aware the Prince doesn't need a powersword to ignore armour saves? Reread the Monstrous Creature rules, you'll see the power weapon is mostly redundant.


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## The Deserter (May 28, 2007)

Awsome!! thanks for that!


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

i also heard that the individual chaos factions are getting their own codicies...is there any truth to that?


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## DarknessDawns (Oct 21, 2007)

i dont want them all to be separate i think deamons go great with the whole chaos theme , plus then id have to totally rething my developing chaos army


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

Captain Galus said:


> i also heard that the individual chaos factions are getting their own codicies...is there any truth to that?


no. that would be way too much work im afraid. the CSM codex allows plenty of customisation, esp combined with daemon release and your own imagination.


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## The Deserter (May 28, 2007)

Triumph Of Man said:


> From the rumours I've heard, they're supposed to be mostly uncompatible.


That can't be right, from what I've heard codex daemonica is just special rules for the demons (or thats my understanding anyway) with a few extra units but the armies can be put together like Which hunters and space marines.


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## angels of fire (Dec 4, 2007)

sounds cool but it wouldnt make sense for chaos marines and daemons to be uncompatible as in the fluff chaos spawn lots of daemons a lot of the time :biggrin:


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## veteran1759 (Jan 4, 2008)

From what I can tell and after asking WW they are compatible it was they thought it was unfair to cut such a rich part of the universe down just to save space so they decided to give daemons there own codex, so now I'm eagerly awaiting that to finish my army and praying to all the gods that they include better rules for chaos marine daemon princes as at the moment it looks like using a terminator lord is better


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## CyDoN (Dec 21, 2007)

I think they do that just to get more money. I am mad about that. whatever


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Jervis gave a seminar at one of the GT heats at which he said that the 2 books would not be compatible. GW are making a point of not doing add on codexes any more, as you can see by stuff like the marine books all being done as full lists in one book. Effectively, this means that a totally new army is getting added to 40k.

This approach was more or less backed by the tournament players present, as it has often been these add on lists (whether in seperate books like Ulthwe or appendixes like Ulthwe) that have caused problems in the past. Better to have full lists that have been properly playtested as stand alone armies than mix and match army lists where you can cherry pick combos that were never originally intended.

In normal play you can do what you like so long as your opponent agrees. I imagine that in apocalypse people will be using CSM, daemons, renegade guard and titans pretty much as they like.


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## Triumph Of Man (Dec 27, 2007)

It's rather Ironic, the most favoured of the Chaos deities won't have access to their respective daemonic support. I wonder what bullshit excuse GW will try to explain this away with?

"What do you mean I can't summon these plaguebearers? Dude, I'm fucking Typhus!"


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

that does confuse me somewhat as well... investigations shall have to be made.


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## The Deserter (May 28, 2007)

But chaos can still get demons but just not god specific demons wich i agree suks. Like I said before Demon Hunters and Which hunters can join space marine and imperial armies so it SHOULD be the same as that but if not GW migh get a riot on their hands.....


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## Ezekial Lightning (Oct 30, 2007)

Yep in apocalypse you can have a combination, but not in normal games. TWO separate things :angry:


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## kh4054ng3l (Nov 23, 2007)

Yeah but didnt they break that rule with Daemonhunter & Witchhunters, inducted marines and imperial guard, and the limited units are now available from them to other armies?

I can't see them not letting the respective deities not have their proper minions, it most likely would be that they can only have their respective daemonic minions, but then again this is mostly speculation. This would be nice if they did allow chaos or even traitor legions to take daemonic minions like daemonhunters can take inductecd guard, etc... though.


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## DarknessDawns (Oct 21, 2007)

from what iv heard from GW staff is that the 2 codecies are compatable , but its scaring me from what im hearing from u guys. chaos, WITHOUT DEAMONS, GW must be kidding themselves if they think players will accept that.


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## Triumph Of Man (Dec 27, 2007)

DarknessDawns said:


> from what iv heard from GW staff is that the 2 codecies are compatable , but its scaring me from what im hearing from u guys. chaos, WITHOUT DEAMONS, GW must be kidding themselves if they think players will accept that.


You should keep in mind that the GW staff at a store in general really don't have much of a clue over you when it comes to anything, rules or rumours. They get at best the codexes a a couple of months ahead of release. People at Warseer however (Brimstone) get their information a lot quicker with friends in the right places.

And then there's the issue of something supposedly straight out of a lead designer's mouth saying "your codex is going to shit".



> Jervis gave a seminar at one of the GT heats at which he said that the 2 books would not be compatible.


I mean, that's pretty hard to argue with beyond an outright accusation of somebody lieing.


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## DarknessDawns (Oct 21, 2007)

very true
i think that it would be a very crap decision by GW
i guess we will have to see
anyone have any idea when this codex is to be released?


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

The seminar was actually very good, perhaps better than it would have been if it went to plan. The idea had been to show us a bunch of pictures of ork figs but the laptop with the projector didn't work and the automatic screen kept going up and down into a hole in the ceiling. Result was much more time for Q+A, which is what we wanted anyway.

Jervis didn't go into any specifics at all over what units would be in the book. At the time he said that this was because everything was still in the design process and subject to change. It's possible that this could include the compatibility, or otherwise, of the books.

However, from what he was saying it was pretty clear that the current position, that each codex should stand alone, was a deliberate one that they had given quite a lot of thought. I'm pretty confident that the daemon and csm books won't be compatible and that this will be the case for all books for the forseeable future.

It's interesting that the inquisition books are referenced as an example as a "why can't it be like this" type of thing. I think that the inquisition books represent the best and worst elements of 3rd edition codex design. On one hand you have loads of cool options and different stuff you can do, but on the other hand the units aren't well balanced and the armies don't end up utilising all the fluffy stuff in the books because so much of it is useless rubbish. 

For example, at the same GT heat where Jervis gave the seminar quite a lot of players, I'd say between 5 and 10, fielded a unit with a basic ordo malleus inquisitor with emperor's tarot (and usually no weapons!) and two mystics. You get a nice little 47 point unit that you can give you first turn, hold objectives and give you a virtual autowin against deep strike and drop podding enemies. Without criticising the players doing this (since I was one of them) I think that this demonstrates precisely the worst problem with these books. You have 100 options, 1 is overpowered or there's a dodgy combo. That gets used and everything else is ignored. I would much prefer to have a single codex full of units that all worked than 3 books full of units, 1 in 3 of which worked.

In case it seems like I'm totally backing GW here I'd like to say that I really hate the way that demons were done in the CSM book. They really could have had seperate rules for the different demons and it would have only taken them another 3 lines on the page where their rules are. It sucks that they have these fluff-free unaligned demons and not even any models for them. It means that there won't be consistency between the 2 chaos books now, as a plague bearer in one is going to have different rules to a plague bearer in the other. That's stupid. They could have easily had the same profiles in both but different rules for how they got on the board (being summoned or starting on the board - or whatever happens in C:daemons), maybe different points values too. It's not like daemons took up loads of space in the old book either.


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## veteran1759 (Jan 4, 2008)

I think that may be part of the reason, in the old codex there was not much room spent on daemons which is basically what chaos is about. The idea they got to do a separate codex is a very good one but if they don't tie in the CSM it could prove a disaster. How will they justify a army that has to be summoned on one battelfield and another that of the same stuff that is there from the start and not subject to the same rules. This will be interesting to see the outcome. I personally hope that when they say its a separate codex it is but can still be integrated with the other side of chaos. Still though its been a while since they did anything on chaos IG and muties. The last I saw of them was in Lost and the Damned I think they could make a big come back


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## Dragonlover (Oct 17, 2007)

Regarding compatibility: Sure, if the book says no crossovers then it sucks for tournaments, but for games against your mates/at a club just ask your opponents permission to use the proper daemons from Daemonica. Problem solved.

Dragonlover


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## veteran1759 (Jan 4, 2008)

Good call, thanks


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

I really think people need to relax a bit. GW has been listening to it's consumers a lot more lately. It has written Apocalypse to allow us to use Titans. I remember when they said they would never make rules that allow Titans to be a playable part of the game. They have also cleaned up a lot of armies. DA have shown the future trend for marines that have both a bolt pistol, bolter, frag and Krak grenades standard. They brought back the ORK Shokk Attack Gun. GW is finally listening. I highly doubt they will shoot them selves in the foot by making god specific daemons not compatible with chaos marines of the same patron.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Apocalypse is important, yes. By giving you apocalypse, where anything goes, they can then be much more restrictive in the "core rules" than they could otherwise be without killing all the character of the game.

A major reason for this change in strategy is so that you only need to buy one codex, the BBB and your army. You don't need to buy three codexes, the BBB, two expansions, eaight copies of white dwarf and your army. If you have all those things then you can do a different game but the core rules remain sacrosanct.


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## darkane (Nov 14, 2007)

i wouldnt be surprised that if the CSM and demon codecies are not compatable then a new edition of inquistion codecies will seperate them completly from SM and IG integration. Which would actually make the Sisters of battle and Grey knights a bit stronger and better able to stand on their own.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

I just hope the Word Bearers still can use any kind of demon, as I still have a Slanneshi cult from a flop Fantasy army. Keeper of Secrets (Forgeworld, beautiful.) a dozen Riders, and 60 Demonettes. I won't have to use the lame-o new Demonettes. The metal ones are so much cooler.

-Dirge


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

GW isn't stupid. They know fully well that breaking twenty years of tradition of daemons and Chaos regulars working together will lead to nerd rage of truly epic proportions. They simply can't afford not to include some rules to allow them special leeway in working together without dozens, possibly hundreds, of customers walking off in disgust.


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## Captain Micha (Nov 2, 2007)

I think honestly that it is probably best they do not make them compatible. After all they already said the process they go through to summon daemons in the current codex is too strenuous on the daemons and weakens them into the genero daemons that 'everyone' but me hates. And that the stronger smarter daemons just know that the csm just want them for cannon fodder anyway and stay away. Only the most desperate mewling slobbering daemons go to the csm summonings.

To make them compatible would break the continuum of fluff they have just made.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

I think the codexes might be like the current Witch Hunters/Demonhunters dexs'. Like you can have certain units in conjunction with Demons. But I think it'd be cool to have a purist Demon army for 40k. The Legion of Undying Exultation will advance to 40k!

-Dirge


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## Gore Hunter (Nov 5, 2007)

Daemon princes don't need a power sword they are Monstrous Creatures


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## abaddonthedespoir (Jan 28, 2008)

DarknessDawns said:


> does this mean that if theis codex comes out that deamons will be a whole different race?


Nope. They will be instead of greter demon, it'll be called like a bloodthirster, or greater demon of khorne, and same with the lesser demons.

And it'll be the same for fantasy


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

im afraid abaddon, youre wrong, and darkness is right. They will be a whole new independent race. They wont be compatible with any other race and will follow what has largely happened with all the other codexes. The only way this might changbe is with 5th ed if it introduces an ally chart.

in fantasy i think it will be compatible with hordes and beasts.


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## rokassan (Jan 24, 2007)

Captain Micha said:


> I think honestly that it is probably best they do not make them compatible. After all they already said the process they go through to summon daemons in the current codex is too strenuous on the daemons and weakens them into the genero daemons that 'everyone' but me hates. And that the stronger smarter daemons just know that the csm just want them for cannon fodder anyway and stay away. Only the most desperate mewling slobbering daemons go to the csm summonings.
> 
> To make them compatible would break the continuum of fluff they have just made.


 I have the whole volume of Liber Chaotica and the Lost and the Damned and its sister volume. All demons are an extension of their parent Chaos god. Being that the Chaos Gods get their strength through the worship of mortals I dont think a Mortal Champion of Nurgle(Deathguard) for example would have a problem summoning Plague Bearers or even a Greater Demon of Nurgle if they "requested one" from Grandfather Nurgle to further his goals. The Demons have no choice but to serve their summoner if their God wills it.

Perhaps if Joe the homeless Chaos worshipper attempted to summon a Demonette he would fail or get one of those generic Naked Space Marines with the 5+ invunerable save(Lesser Demon),but I dont think a dedicated Champion would have that issue.


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## Gore Hunter (Nov 5, 2007)

torealis said:


> im afraid abaddon, youre wrong, and darkness is right. They will be a whole new independent race. They wont be compatible with any other race and will follow what has largely happened with all the other codexes. The only way this might changbe is with 5th ed if it introduces an ally chart.
> 
> in fantasy i think it will be compatible with hordes and beasts.


Something tells me there will still be Bloodthirsters and such because Greater Daemons are devoted to chaos and its Gods otherwise there won't be anything to truly symbolise and opitomise the Gods and half the fun will be taken out of chaos if they can't summon Daemons that opitomise them if they do this.


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## Gore Hunter (Nov 5, 2007)

Oh and who the hell will summon the Daemons if not chaos?


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Anyone can potentially summon Daemons. Chaos used to be the only group that could for several years, but that was just because. That is why a standalone codex for daemons would have been useful.


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## Haraldrr (Jan 29, 2008)

an army of deamons would be pretty kool


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## KharnTheBetrayer86 (Feb 26, 2008)

And so all Chaos armies fall into mediocraty...

Our Chaos lords will all start to become exactly the same, what with the sparse weapon options and no choice of Veteran abilities or mutations. no Spiky bits, no demonic strength, no steeds of any worth...

Seriously, tell me at least that the juggernaughts that arise from the Demon codex will be usable as Steeds for a mortal Chaos lord.

I saw what looked to be a test page for the demon codex in a recent white dwarf (also had so models of the Vampire counts, including Vlad and mannfred, very cool looking) and it made mention of powerful abilities for various gods...are we guessing that these will be demonically exclusive?

There better be some damn good fluff to explain why the Chaos Gods have stopped anointing their chosen lords with any gifts barring a demon weapon, which can be aquired (fluffwise, and indeed ruleswise...albeit a less powerful one) just as easily by an inquisitor.

Why be Chaos now if we lose all those fun chaotic gifts?

Gah, rant over. I have more faith than this post suggests, but its fun to complain no?


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## fatboy955 (Feb 24, 2008)

it will prob be like the warhammer beasts and hords of chaos books ie you can 'mix and match' from bothbooks


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