# White Dwarf 326



## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

Before I ask the question I feel that I should state that I am not one of the GW hating community. I love the background, fiction, models and history of the 40K universe.

However I have been back in the hobby after a break since WD260 and feel that this months was the worst for a 40K gamer since then. Advertising arguably filled around 25% of the magazine!

I have never previously been so disappointed at the end of a WD.

It's not all bad the mag still looks superb but the content seems to be dripping away. Am I alone in wishing they would return to the good old days where WD was used to publish rules updates for new units and errata.


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## Grismund (Jan 31, 2007)

no not at all im in the same boat i love gw stuff but i want a mag to read not just pritty pics of stuff thats ciomming out or is allready

gris


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

Yep not too Impressed either, I can remember getting hold of a copy way back when I was In primary school and the fluff writing alone blew me away and drew me Into the hobby.
I'm sure I read somewhere recently that WD basically admitted their magazine Is now basically an excuse to show off their models and painting skills rather than providing usefull tactics and fluff for the more experienced gamers. It's basically become a marketing tool now to draw In new players, suppose they are a business after all so profit comes first for them.
Like a fool though I'll still keep on buying It, would be a shame to miss an Issue from my collection. :roll:


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## Fallen Angel (Dec 22, 2006)

Vets aren't the market for White Dwarf. Its to draw kiddies in, hence lots of pictures.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Fallen Angel said:


> Vets aren't the market for White Dwarf. Its to draw kiddies in, hence lots of pictures.


Never really looked at it that way. Makes perfect sense. 

I only ever look at the pictures... :shock:


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## Grismund (Jan 31, 2007)

jez thats cuse your a little kid at hart like most of us

gris


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## philbrad (Jan 26, 2007)

Actually I found the current UK WD the best for several months. I'm not an LoTR or WHFB player but the articles weren't bad. 

If you think this issue sucked you should have seen some of the issues over the past 12-18 months.... phew ... 

WD is now a marketing tools for GW plain & simple. It screams 'Look at our new cool stuff guys BUY IT!' and the hobby content is weak (I'm being generous here) and its rare there are articles advanced or vet gamers might find interesting. 

with 4th ed GW wanted to stop all the add on rules sets and army lists that featured in WD during 3rd ed and before. TBH it's took something from the game for me. I used to enjoy tester army lists and rules, special scenarios etc.. all seem to lacking in 4th ed which has a very sterile way of play to me. Found myself reading the 2nd ed rules and wargear books the other night and thinking how much character the game has lost. 

GW used to have an ethos of 'by gamers, for gamers' in this day an age of the multinational GW and multiple worldwide editions of WD I find this ethos has gone the way of the dinosaurs. 

PhilB 
(HERESY-ONLINE OFFICIAL GRUMPY OLD MAN) 
:twisted:


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## Grismund (Jan 31, 2007)

that man has it in one
gris


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## Patriarch (Feb 3, 2007)

I totally agree, actually one the staff members at my local GW quit because he was so annoyed that it wasn't about the hobby anymore, it was about making money. I am totally on his side, a lot of people are realizing this now. I reckon someone should mail GW head office and let them know. Not only will they begin to lose hobbyists if prices continue to rise and the articles they produce (how so very rare they are) continue to draw further away from the point.

They will also lose money which i suppose is bad...

It should be about the hobby and not about the benjamins IMO.

~Nik


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## Grismund (Jan 31, 2007)

uve told them this and my manager and hes like where selling 2twich as much stuff as last year and i seid thats relly not the pont so i gave up

gris


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Phil hit the nail on the head. I used to buy every issue of WD without fail because aside from the coming soon section the entire magazine was all about the hobby. Painting tips, modelling/converting tips, awesome fluff articles and best of all, new rules/scenarios to try. I used to really look forward to the new mag.

Now, I take a look at the store copy they have to see if I am at all interested and about half the time, I don't see any reason to pick it up. It is a sad thing.


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## Kayback (Jan 18, 2007)

I've started picking them up at pay per weight stores. True they are about a month behind, but they cost 1/4 the price. 

Makes you feel less ripped off.

Very uninpressed with the last couple. They strike me as they are advertising the games too much. We're already interested, we're buying your bloody magazine!

If it isn't the games they are pushing they are filled with "Look at how cool this miniature is" articles. And not converted ones. Off the shelf ones.

BRING BACK SOME ORIGINALITY IN THE MAGAZINE. Battle reports between Marine armoured companies and rogue Imperial Guard armoured forces. You know, off the wall, out of the box. Something not everyone can do at home.

KBK


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## Grismund (Jan 31, 2007)

schock and horror i could do both of them but i amme

gris


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

I am not a GW cronie by any stretch, but have you looked at the current WD lately. They still have tons of modelling and tactics. I hear people complain because they use their own publication to market their products. Is that so bad?? It is *THEIR* Magazine.

If you look at older issues of WD (199 and below) you'll see they are about 30 pages thinner than current issues. As WD has gotten older it has gotten thicker. Has GW really done anything bad by making the magazine thicker and using those added pages to advertise?

Hare's a link to the GW site with the contents of issue 325 on it.
http://us.games-workshop.com/news/whitedwarf/WD325/WD325.htm
There is a ton of modelling, painting, and tactics in the issue.

Basically WD has more advertisements than yesteryear becasue it's 30 + pages thicker than yesteryear.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

Sorry Pathwinder but Argos use their Catalogues to promote stuff they sell- it's bigger, as far more detail, etc.

Would I pay for it? Hell, no.

Should I pay for a GW Catalogue?

My WD Subscription expired in December and I haven't looked back, not being screwed over is so liberating. And I can look at threads like this not with bitter anger but pity at those who still hold out hope whilst buying the crap.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

It's gotten thicker because it has more ads

I don;t know if we have any D&D plyers here, but compare WD to Dragon and weep.

I'm not saying Dragon is always packed to the brim with stuff I use, but it;s always got lots of good articles, interesting (and official) content, new material, fiction comics, a Q&A on rules questions with one of the actual game designers (yes, even if he doesn;t alwys get it right, theyve at least got someone there answering questions in print every month rather than just sying "Roll a die.")

Sure, it;s got ads as well, but not soo many, and usually for some interesting stuff.

Outside of getting to look at upcoming GW swag, WD is of almost no use to me threse dyas, whereas I consider my Draogn collection to be a valuable reference.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

the cabbage said:


> However I have been back in the hobby after a break since WD260 and feel that this months was the worst for a 40K gamer since then. !
> 
> .


I completely agree with you. 

There is way to much advertising, too much *shudders* lord of the rings and too much WHFB and not enough 40K its supposed to be a magazine about all the major systems not 80% one 15% another 2.5% the last and 2.5% advertising.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

I have noticed (as I'm sure you all have) that as new armies are released teh next couple of White Dwarf issues revolve arounds the release. I'll bet we can expect to see a lot of 40K stuff when teh next issue about the Dark Angels comes out.


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

> I have noticed (as I'm sure you all have) that as new armies are released teh next couple of White Dwarf issues revolve arounds the release.


Taking the 'new' giant as a prime example, that damn model as good as It Is had been making regular appearances for at least the last 4-5 months! :evil:


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

As an aside, that Giant model is frigging awesome. From the way they designed it (via computer) to the way it is assembled and all the extra goodies and bitz.

I'll certainly be glad when the LotR stuff is gone. I don't know how GW makes a dime off of it (hence all the advert/ pimping of LotR in WD). The license has got to be hanging around their heads like a massive weight.


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

I weet to the vendor seminar at Gencon 2006 and they explained how some of the marketing works. How every month has a specific game system focus, that also coincides with a new release and WD adverts. Same goes for how the battle bunker and other events plan things. Everything is tied to the production schedule and selling the newest thing out.

Of course as a business, I totally understand this. Makes perfect sense. As a hobbyist though, I can see how a lot of the hobby articles are falling by the wayside. It's a matter of balance and GW needs to sort that out.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

I understand that GW a business would use a media like White Dwarf to push and sell their products- but in most cases a company has to take the cost out of their budget and give this away for free.

That GW can literally (rather than through buying the product) get its customers to pay for advertising is amazing, and appalling.

I guess they've always been doing this- it's just that the methods use have become less and less subtle, to the point where 'Buy a Giant' was hidden on every page.


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

Hyeah...subtlety is kind of "out the window" these days.

I mean, I'm a hobbyist, collector and occasional player, and I don't mind supporting GW for the most part. Seriously, I must spend enough to keep the lights on at a couple of the bunkers at least. 


I also understand that I'm not typical. This is my hobby, and I budget a portion of my income to support it. I believe they are trying to suck in more of the casual folks, lots of shiny toys for the kiddies and to hook new people. This is an important thing. You have to keep growing your base, while maintaining your loyalists.

I think they've taken us loyalists for granted a bit, banking on bagging new folks and betting the loyalists will remain loyal anyhow. This is of course mostly true, but it's not fun to be taken advantage of.

As a loyal GW fan, collector, hobbyist etc, I'd like to see something FOR US. More articles of value, more how-to walkthrough for painting or conversions.

Of course, these days, with every company scrambling for every available dollar/ pound etc to stay afloat I could be barking up the wrong tree.


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## Kayback (Jan 18, 2007)

I'm more or less the epitomy of a fanboy. I got into 40K 'cos a friend of mine from the UK showed me a WD. No one here stocked them and I was fortunate enough to find some at a pay per weight shop.

I've more or less been buying them since the late 100's. 

I'm certain I had at least issue 182. 

And while the "hey shoo wow" glossieness has improved, the content has not.

Personally I preferred the older how to conversion stories, the battle reports, and the one or two ads.

Now MAYBE over the last 10 years my taste in magazines might have changed, but until recently the magazine was keeping up with my tastes.

Personally I think they push their new models a little too much. They go overboard with it. You used to see one or two pics, if you lucky a "how it was made", and see it once or twice in a battle report.

Now it's pictures, pictures, some pictures, a how cool it is and how you can put it together (didn't we used to be smart enough to get that off the back of a box?), a battle report with it in, a couple more pictures, and then an advert for the boxed set. And some pictures.

I was also sorely disapointed with the December isse. The closeups of the GOlden Daemon miniatures were pixillated. What POS camera did they use to take the pics? They even zoomed in on some parts and made it worse. 

Where the hell is the QC?

As I said earlier, even though I've found a regular supplier, the Boys and Men hobby shop is a registered GW dealer, I'm picking them up at the pay per weight again, a month late, but 1/4 the price.

KBK


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

I will always love WD, no matter how crappy.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Yeah, but don't let them hear you say that.


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## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

When I first started playing 40k, I bought WD every month until I had to deploy to places where I couldn't get it. After returning and moving away from the people I played with, I quit collecting anything 40k for a year or so. Now that I've gotten back in to the hobby, I picked up a few new issues of WD. I had once read them cover to cover, but these latest issues I was bored with before I'd done much with them. I found it to be full of adverts, which was fine but even the non advert stuff seemed like... well... more adverts. I can't read a battle report without wondering how the people who created the hobby could use so little in the way of tactics. "Since he was playing the brand new 'insert model here' I decided to move my tactical squad within assault range of it for no apperent reason and he assaulted me, destroying my squad utterly. Wow, what a great new 'insert model here'." :roll: 

I suppose I shouldn't complain too much though, if a company can fool its players into buying advertisements more power to them. If I want the new model I'll buy it, not buy an advertisement for it and wish I had it.


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

Of course, with GW not releasing supplements aside from Army Codices(and repetitive cityfight) there isn't much more they think they can write about. WD is an old mag and has been through a ton of articles, of which most have been added again and again. They need supplements to make the game have more than How to Paint This or That. Or each magazine put a new style of painting and a new style of modeling terrain. Hell, flavored up versions of old articles are better than endless LoTR ads. There should be three battle reports in each issue, with ACTUAL GAMEPLAY involved instead of the set-up crap. If not one for each core game, then Two 40k and one WFB then switch it up next month. I for one would like to see how the studio thinks an army should be played.

Every month should be an in-depth look at the strategy of a certain army of both Core Warhammer games. Then a solid painting guide and conversion idea for those armies as well as modelling/scratch-building terrain for said army. Then a few battles reports, as above. Then a portion of new releases for the month, an overview of uses of last months minis in conversions etc.., a preview of the next months releases, a large question and answer area, and then the return of something similar to Chapter Approved. It should be a large section of Advanced Rules for a certain type of game or situation or army. It's even possible to do it every other month to avoid slamming the gaming world with excess rules, but all would be optional and tourney optional. Then, an alterating section on FW or SG stuff. How's that sound?

-Khaine-

(I realize the mag is similar to this but really misses it as a whole, or the articles are uncaring and half-ass. The battle reports are the worst and totally crap compared to the hair-raising Andy Chambers reports from early 3e and late 2e. They have many major games to work with, yet don't do anything with them. It seems like GW is a chicken with its head cut off.. Seeing one thing while the body writhes in random chaotic directions with no discipline.)


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> Every month should be an in-depth look at the strategy of a certain army of both Core Warhammer games. Then a solid painting guide and conversion idea for those armies as well as modelling/scratch-building terrain for said army. Then a few battles reports, as above. Then a portion of new releases for the month, an overview of uses of last months minis in conversions etc.., a preview of the next months releases, a large question and answer area, and then the return of something similar to Chapter Approved. It should be a large section of Advanced Rules for a certain type of game or situation or army. It's even possible to do it every other month to avoid slamming the gaming world with excess rules, but all would be optional and tourney optional. Then, an alterating section on FW or SG stuff. How's that sound?


Couldn't agree more. The painting and conversion guides were the prime reason I started buying WD, along with the awesome Chapter Approved. Now that I am (IMHO) fairly accomplished in the painting and converting I find that it is CA that I miss the most. I loved getting more fluff and new scenarios and trial rules to try. I loved seeing rule clarifications being made and things like that. WD really needs to go back to this style of mag.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

The Wraithlord said:


> > Every month should be an in-depth look at the strategy of a certain army of both Core Warhammer games. Then a solid painting guide and conversion idea for those armies as well as modelling/scratch-building terrain for said army. Then a few battles reports, as above. Then a portion of new releases for the month, an overview of uses of last months minis in conversions etc.., a preview of the next months releases, a large question and answer area, and then the return of something similar to Chapter Approved. It should be a large section of Advanced Rules for a certain type of game or situation or army. It's even possible to do it every other month to avoid slamming the gaming world with excess rules, but all would be optional and tourney optional. Then, an alterating section on FW or SG stuff. How's that sound?
> 
> 
> Couldn't agree more. The painting and conversion guides were the prime reason I started buying WD, along with the awesome Chapter Approved. Now that I am (IMHO) fairly accomplished in the painting and converting I find that it is CA that I miss the most. I loved getting more fluff and new scenarios and trial rules to try. I loved seeing rule clarifications being made and things like that. WD really needs to go back to this style of mag.


I absulutely agree, chapter approved making a comeback may be the only thing which could drag the magazine from the brink, IMO.


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

LongBeard said:


> Like a fool though I'll still keep on buying It, would be a shame to miss an Issue from my collection. :roll:


>> Im the same mate, I buy it, read it, moan about hpw shite it is, then go out a month later and do it all again just so my collection is not missing any. Bring back the fat bloke i say.


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

I'm just as bad. I keep updating my subscription whenever they offer a new toy with the subscription.

Yay Captain Sicarius.
Oh...I don't play Ultramarines?
Well crap.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Not to mention that it was an incredibly bad mini <chuckles>

Though I;ve seen a few decent conversions. Some guy did a particularly good salamander version


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## Severian (Jan 22, 2007)

Obviously I'm not as cheesed off as some on this thread (I still buy it) but I have to agree that yes the mag has taken a decided dive. Yes there is some painting and modelling but it is almost all beginner stuff and used to push their product (use our new brush, sculpting tool, basing set etc.) The advertising is fine as long if it is not to exclusion of the hobby stuff. Show us some cool conversions (who knows we might actually buy the components and try it ourselves) not just look at how cool our models off the shelf are. Give us more fluff, special scenarios or characters. What about a decent section focussing on the specialist games. I really liked it when they had the Necromunda campaign (301, 302 around there) and I don't even play the game but I like the hobby.(I'm not even mentioning the Mordheim incident, that was just atrocious.

Maybe the (relatively) new editor(s) has something to do with it?


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

I think the bean counters have more to do with it than anything.


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

I also miss the old days when it was more hobby based. They would have 2 or 3 pages of fluff or stories to read about some poor imperial guards man. I was a blast to read cover to cover. Now I just flip through it and maybe read a little but generally they just get piled up in the corner.


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>>One of the worst things is the battle reports. Back in the day, it used to be 1-1.5 pages per player turn, detailed and all. Now its 1-1.5 pages per 3 turns, utter bullshite. And those fucking spas-ometers at the top just make you realise how much its aimed at the newbies. Now dont get me wrong, GW needs new gamers, but why treat the vets like idiots?


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