# Fulgrim & Descent of Angels



## Commissar Schultz (Feb 18, 2011)

I been trying to read the HH series in Order, but can't seem to find the Eisenstein one anywhere, so purchased Fulgrim and just finished it.

That book was just rough. In a good way I mean. I know it's the way of things in the 40K fluff, but it just blows my mind what he went through, and how eagerly he joined Horus's bandwagon. So was Ferrus the first primarch to die? (Not counting the 2 missing ones.)

I did appreciate how Fulgrim finally realized how bad he messed up. I was like FINALLY! Not to bright for a Primarch. But it's easy to say that as an unknown observer to the story. Anyways, I did enjoy it especially the Istavaan V attack. I'd heard only hushed whispers of how it went down, now it's nice to know what really happened. 

So..I have to wonder..and it's probably the understatement of the year..but I assume the Emperor's Children and Iron Hands are... well the embodiement of rivals/enemies/foes.

As for the Descent of Angels I just picked it up a couple hours ago. I was never really a huge DA fan, but my interest is piqued regarding how they split and Caliban was blown up. And all that other juicy, fluffy goodness.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

decent of angels is bloody aweful ,seriously its the worst book i have ever read and i have read Sean Austins autobiograhy were he moans that he didnt get enough recognition 
for playing sam in LOTR.


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

I quite liked Descent of angels... its much slower paced than the other books and gives a much greater overview to the great crusade and the heresy. Anyway: 

http://www.play.com/Books/Books/4-/...ring=flight+of+the+eisenstein&urlrefer=search


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

_Descent of Angels_ is hard to read. But I enjoyed the history of Caliban. Its essential in understanding it later in the Heresy.

_Fulgrim_ maybe one of my favorite novels in the Heresy. Its between that and _Horus Rising_ for me. 

The thing with Fulgrim was that Horus was such an influence to Fulgrim and his legion that he trusted him too much. He could also could sense that what Horus was saying he truly thought was the honest truth. So in that sense Fulgrim was told the truth.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Commissar Schultz said:


> So was Ferrus the first primarch to die? (Not counting the 2 missing ones.)


Yes, I'm pretty sure that Ferrus Manus was the first of the Primarchs to die, unless someone states otherwise. 



Commissar Schultz said:


> So..I have to wonder..and it's probably the understatement of the year..but I assume the Emperor's Children and Iron Hands are... well the embodiement of rivals/enemies/foes.


They're not the *only* embodiement of rivals/enemies/foes though.

Don't forget about these:

Space Wolves / Thousand Sons
Imperial Fists / Iron Warriors (Not So Much)


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

bitsandkits said:


> decent of angels is bloody aweful ,seriously its the worst book i have ever read and i have read Sean Austins autobiograhy were he moans that he didnt get enough recognition
> for playing sam in LOTR.


I got confused with 'Steve Austin' the wrestler guy then and my mind did a double take! :laugh:


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> Yes, I'm pretty sure that Ferrus Manus was the first of the Primarchs to die, unless someone states otherwise.
> 
> They're not the *only* embodiement of rivals/enemies/foes though.
> 
> ...


 
Not so much??? Are you kidding me lol? They are the embodiement of rivalry, just as large as the Wolves and Thousand Sons, certainly larger than the Iron Hands and Emperors Children i would argue.

And yes Ferrus was certainly the first of the known primarchs to die. Though the two unknowns(who are almost certainly dead imo) would have been before him.


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## jmambrosian (Nov 30, 2010)

Descent of Angels was slow, but it is not really that bad, and you can't skip it. Also you have to get your hands on eisenstein it was one of the best ones and it sets up the main character for his own spin off later.


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## Commissar Schultz (Feb 18, 2011)

Yeah the Descent of Angels so far is..IMO ok at best. I'm no English professor, but the way he words the sentences is just weird. I had to re-read a few of them more then once, wondering..What in the Hell. I know I'm just being picky. And being only so far into it, about 1/3rd of the way, but he don't really seem to make Lion the Primarch he is supposed to be. The main char just seems like..Wow this guy is pretty cool and a hero. Just seems like Lion don't get the respect a Primarch deserves.

I dunno. I do like the book, but kinda slow so far, what with the circles and spiral talk. But then again I'm not done with the book so far. It seems ok at best to me at this point.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> Yes, I'm pretty sure that Ferrus Manus was the first of the Primarchs to die, unless someone states otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ouch. I would not go that far. Fulgrim and Ferrus I wouldn't say were very much rivals till Istvaan. But it seemed as though what first started off as looking like a rivalry when they first met, became admiration of one another. Maybe a small rivalry in the lamest terms but it didn't seem like they tried to outcompete each other. Especially in that scene where they were helping each other with that fleet battle.

The Wolves vs Thousand Sons was rivalry in terms of two completley different ideologies, while the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists was a rivalry of the same techniques but different approaches.



Angel of Blood said:


> Not so much??? Are you kidding me lol? They are the embodiement of rivalry, just as large as the Wolves and Thousand Sons, certainly larger than the Iron Hands and Emperors Children i would argue.
> 
> And yes Ferrus was certainly the first of the known primarchs to die. Though the two unknowns(who are almost certainly dead imo) would have been before him.


I concur. Though I understand Bane of Kings would not see it so due to the lack of literature so far in the Heresy for the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists.

Certainly before the Heresy Series, the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists were probably the biggest rivalry known about the legions. The Wolves of Fenris with the Thousand Sons are relatively newer due to the new novels.


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## Commissar Schultz (Feb 18, 2011)

So I finished Descent of Angels.

In my opinion was not all that great, and didn't really have anything to do with the Heresy to me at least. And those random Mars sections didn't really make sense to me or even why they were in the book. It didn't really hold my attention like the other HH books I read, and it took me a week to trudge through the novel, when I finished some of the other books that had more pages in 3 days time, tops. I'm no writer of any sort of reknown, but even I know a good book when I read one, and this was not one of them.
But then again he's the guy making the money by selling the books, I'm just one of millions of readers.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Random Mars sections?


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## Commissar Schultz (Feb 18, 2011)

Yeah like 3 times they just went to how Mars was taken over, by a chaos encoded computer virus or something.


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## Company Master (Mar 25, 2011)

descent of angels was really good!!! i finished it not long ago!!! i kind of liked learning of th dark angels before the heresy with the order and the beast quests and stuff!!!


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## brianizbrewtal (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah I agree. Decent of Angels was pretty good if you're not looking for continuing HH. I like that they're not just covering everything leading up to the Siege of Terra in such a hurry and bringing more life to the time period. It's a shame DoA gets such bad credit.


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## Company Master (Mar 25, 2011)

Very true. Well Legion is the next book in order I think? Well thats the one I bought after Descent Of Angels. Just not got round to reading it yet. Im 2/3 of the way through The Purging Of kadillus and its awsome!! especially when interragtor chaplain boreas jumped out of a low flying speeding thunderhawk onto an ork vehicle and destroyed it!!!


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Commissar Schultz said:


> Yeah like 3 times they just went to how Mars was taken over, by a chaos encoded computer virus or something.


Huh? Where? :search: In Descent of Angels, the Heresy book? I can't for the life of me find or remember any part of that book being set on Mars. I do remember that being in Mechanicum which is set entirely on Mars of course.


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

Commissar Schultz said:


> Yeah like 3 times they just went to how Mars was taken over, by a chaos encoded computer virus or something.


 The techno virus occured on Mars when fighting between traitors and loyalists really got going in _Mechanicum_. _DoA_ was pre-heresy, so there is no possible way for them to mention, or even know, the techno virus happening on Mars.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Schultz, I'm completely lost as to how "Descent of Angels" deals with Mars.


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## Moriar the Forsaken (Apr 18, 2011)

I liked Descent of Angels a lot. It's a slow read and not as action packed as the other books, however its filled with a LOT of subtleties regarding the Lion, Luther, and Caliban.

Subtleties that, if you go back and look through them again, you will understand how everything is going to lead to a tremendous OH SHIT moment.

Sadly I think the Horus Heresy team dropped the ball on this one because they just don't know where to take it.


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