# Black Templars, Right for me?



## Oodles (Feb 24, 2009)

Hi all, I'm new to 40k and want to make a Space Marine army. After reading what info i could get and the fact that my friend has a Space Wolves army and have heard Blood angels are over done(sorry to blood angel lovers), I want to make a black templar based chapter. I'm going to paint them similar to what my Avatar pic looks like and will, in time have made a background story as i love to imerse myself in fantasy, BUT, are the Black Templars battle tactics right for me? I want to Base my army around the use of Marine squads assisted by Scout Squads. Terminators and Dreadnaughts.

Thanks for any and all help. Feel free to state your case for any other chapter as i want to find the right ary for me.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Don't have the BT codex but from what I can gather they don't have scouts, their scouts are part of their 'tactical' squads.

I's say use the new Codex: Space Marines; you can make some nice army lists out of that plus you get access to updated versions of the weapons (i.e. Cyclone Missiles, etc) - You can also take the Master of the Forge to allow you to take up to 6 Dreadnoughts (correct me if i'm wrong on that one)


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## Oodles (Feb 24, 2009)

bishop5 said:


> You can also take the Master of the Forge to allow you to take up to 6 Dreadnoughts (correct me if i'm wrong on that one)


I hope your right because that many dreadnaughts means alot of flat enemies!!!! lol


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## Tossidin (Dec 10, 2008)

It is true.
You can take 3 dreadnoughts as heavy support + the normal 3 in elites when you have MAster of the forge in the army, if I remember right 
And the new codex: Space Marines is wery nice :grin:
Though I do like black templars, but they dont have so much stuff to choose from if I remember right


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Oodles said:


> Hi all, I'm new to 40k and want to make a Space Marine army. After reading what info i could get and the fact that my friend has a Space Wolves army and have heard Blood angels are over done(sorry to blood angel lovers), I want to make a black templar based chapter. I'm going to paint them similar to what my Avatar pic looks like and will, in time have made a background story as i love to imerse myself in fantasy, BUT, are the Black Templars battle tactics right for me? I want to Base my army around the use of Marine squads assisted by Scout Squads. Terminators and Dreadnaughts.
> 
> Thanks for any and all help. Feel free to state your case for any other chapter as i want to find the right ary for me.


Welcome to 40k.

From the sounds of it, it seems like you just want to make a fun army to play with friends and not a tournament army. If that's the case the generic space marine codex is the right one for you.

It's not hard to make a wacky fun list to play with them...but you won't win any tournaments, and if you say otherwise, orks will laugh at you.

Black templar revolve around being amazingly good in close combat, most of our wargear(We still have a wargear page) revolves around getting us into combat, then winning that combat.

We usually have a twenty man squad, comprised of ten initiates(space marine templar) and ten neophytes(ten scouts). The marines will take most of the small arms fire on the stroll up, while neophytes jump in front to take things like lascannons and plasma fire to save the much better marines.

The only flaws come in having to roll leadership at the end of any shooting phase where you suffered a casualty. If you fail(and you will without a marshall), you'll run screaming off the table edge. If you succeed, you get free movement towards the enemy(Which is where you want to be).

To date, I've never seen a close combat army that can match the brute force of templar. We think orks are cute with their twenty guys. It's nice. But we stomp them. Regular space marine squads are laughable, we just pick those off the table.

Genestealers, Banshees, Daemon princes? They'll kill 6-8 neophytes, than be swarmed by a seething nest of angry black snakes.

Also, we have a great dreadnought setup since we can take venerable as an upgrade for the cost of two neophytes.

Sadly though, we don't benefit from the storm shield nonsense that ultramarines get. Sigh. But we still stomp them something awful in CC.


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## jaren (Jul 7, 2008)

Oodles said:


> Hi all, I'm new to 40k and want to make a Space Marine army. After reading what info i could get and the fact that my friend has a Space Wolves army and have heard Blood angels are over done(sorry to blood angel lovers), I want to make a black templar based chapter. I'm going to paint them similar to what my Avatar pic looks like and will, in time have made a background story as i love to imerse myself in fantasy, BUT, are the Black Templars battle tactics right for me? I want to Base my army around the use of Marine squads assisted by Scout Squads. Terminators and Dreadnaughts.
> 
> Thanks for any and all help. Feel free to state your case for any other chapter as i want to find the right army for me.


for your strategy it would work, the blood claw box is still your best bet for getting enough ccw's but aside from some light conversion you will be good. as for your strategy that is standard marine tactics, the black templars do things a little different. we have 20 man crusader squads with 10 initiates (marines) and 10 neophytes (scouts), both of which can choose between rage or ccw/bp. our termies are a big part of a good assault army and can lay down some hurt especially when you put them in a land raider crusader. dreanoughts i found only work well when i employ them in drop pods, other wise they become fire magnates.

as for some special things to note, at 750 points or more (for the list total) we must use an Emperors Champion, he must take only one vow and this will have wide ranging effects for the army, from +1 str -1 initiative, to prefered enemy giving you re-rolls to hit, this one employed with dual lighting claw terminators makes a bad day for anyone re-roll missed hits, then re-roll missed wounds is just sick, i rolled an avatar and the big-bad-ass eldar charachter (forget the name atm) in turn three with a squad of initiates and chappi and squad of assault termies due to that vow.

but anyway i digress, yes in vanilla marines you have more choices, they are a little more flexible, but we have some good choices if you are looking to specialize your army into either close-combat or solely ranged (it works, believe me). the only thing you need to deal with is our older codex, but if you play with cool people they will let some of the things like 35 point rhino's and new storm shields work for you as well.

anyway hope that helps.

-jaren


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## Oodles (Feb 24, 2009)

So Correct me if im wrong but it sounds like Black templars are the SM equiv of orks. Bigger squads and good at H2H


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## jaren (Jul 7, 2008)

i shall smite you for that quip.

but no they are not, orks are unique to themselves, trying to quantify one army like another is very difficult indeed.

Usually you will not see a full 20 model squad for the black templar, more often then not you see a 10 man squad in a rhino.

a sample list so you get an idea...

emperors champ with accept any challeng no matter the odds

2 10 model crusader squads with bp/ccw and a rhino transport

1 to 2 dreads

a squad of assault termies or assault marines

and i take either a vidicator or lrc for the termies maybe both if the points are high enough.

that is a normalish list for me, the trick is the vow for the emperors champion and righteous zeal these make the templars behave very different on the field then many other marine armies.

righteous zeal makes you hae the posibility to move forward in the enemies shooting phase, and the vows for the emperors champion vary depending on the one you choose such as accept any challenge no matter the odds gives you preferred enemy for your entire army against your opponent, so re-roll missed hits.

we also can take lrc's as dedicated transports, have bp/ccw for all normal troop squads, and our chaplains are harder hitters then the vanilla marines are now.

if you have any other questions feel free to ask.

-jaren


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## Oodles (Feb 24, 2009)

BT's sound like my kinda team! Any ideas on how to relate the paint scheme the BT's?


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## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

Black and White go search in the painting section i think there was one about black templars, could be wrong


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## Oodles (Feb 24, 2009)

I meant ideas for fluff. Im painting my own chapter like my avatar on the left.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

Oodles said:


> I meant ideas for fluff. Im painting my own chapter like my avatar on the left.



When it comes to fluff, Black Templars are pretty straight forward, please anybody else correct me if Im wrong, but doesnt a Black templar army have to be painted black+white with the maltese cross in order to be used in game? 

Anyway Black Templars have no official fluff other than its codex and many stories and literature that include them in it. 

Some more advice to you would be if your new to the wh40k hobby, then I would recommend that you start with normal space marines that follow the normal codex astartes and paint them whatever colors you want because there are innumerable chapters of Space marines and any "made up" chapter is fine.


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## Marshal Balian (Apr 25, 2008)

Oodles said:


> Hi all, I'm new to 40k and want to make a Space Marine army. After reading what info i could get and the fact that my friend has a Space Wolves army and have heard Blood angels are over done(sorry to blood angel lovers), I want to make a black templar based chapter. I'm going to paint them similar to what my Avatar pic looks like and will, in time have made a background story as i love to imerse myself in fantasy, BUT, are the Black Templars battle tactics right for me? I want to Base my army around the use of Marine squads assisted by Scout Squads. Terminators and Dreadnaughts.
> 
> Thanks for any and all help. Feel free to state your case for any other chapter as i want to find the right ary for me.


The type of army you are talking about here would be best suited for the standard space marine codex. One squad supporting another squad through bases of fire. Scouts supporting via sniper teams in a building. and dreadnoughts supporting for heavy fire.

A Black Templar army is built around a Crusade. They do not conform to a standard codex chapter of 1000 battle brothers per chapter. They fight in a crusade led by a castellan or a marshal. They do not fight in tactical squads with a sergeant in charge. Veterans(or sergeants) are gathered up by the Marshal and inducted into the sword breatheran. They still believe in purging the universe of the heretic, the mutant, and the alien. As marines were doing during the great crusades with the emperor. 

Black Templars believe that combat should be handled up close and personnal(it is more honorable to fight and die in close combat). They do not have scouts(at all). They have a neophyte(same as a scout) in which an Initiate chooses to take and train until he deems him worthy to be a Black templar Initiate(kind of like a knight with a squire). Black Templars have absolutely no Devastator squads and only have a predator and a Land raider as heavy support. 

My personnal feelings on the Black Templar color scheme is to stick with the Black and white. Black Templars are considered Zealots among Zealots(other marine chapters). To paint the purple would be an insult at best. But that is my personnal feelings on it. Black Templar fluff is pretty straight forward.

Again for the type of army you are looking for to add in all of the fluff and fight the way you want to fight The standard codex and space marines are what you want.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

Marshal Balian said:


> .....My personnal feelings on the Black Templar color scheme is to stick with the Black and white. Black Templars are considered Zealots among Zealots(other marine chapters). To paint the purple would be an insult at best. But that is my personnal feelings on it. Black Templar fluff is pretty straight forward......



I have seen a gray, urban camo Black Templars army. Terribly painted, disgusting at best. Not to mention an insult to the whole chapter.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Treewizard648 said:


> When it comes to fluff, Black Templars are pretty straight forward, please anybody else correct me if Im wrong, but doesnt a Black templar army have to be painted black+white with the maltese cross in order to be used in game?


Nope. My current BT army is painted(And modeled) as alpha legionnaires.

I've only had one guy complain(the exact wording was "Terrible player and sportsmen") to which I responded "Hahah...you're a dick."

Paint the army whatever scheme you want. Please don't paint them purple though, that's all I ask.



Treewizard648 said:


> Anyway Black Templars have no official fluff other than its codex and many stories and literature that include them in it.


Which is generally what fluff is attributed to. Although it's odd they aren't mentioned in other codexes.



Treewizard648 said:


> Some more advice to you would be if your new to the wh40k hobby, then I would recommend that you start with normal space marines that follow the normal codex astartes and paint them whatever colors you want because there are innumerable chapters of Space marines and any "made up" chapter is fine.


Warning however. Space marines a soulless and terrible army that will have you screaming the name of "PHIIIIIL KEELLLLLYYYY" in a spitting rage after orks mop up your last tac squad.


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## Oodles (Feb 24, 2009)

Lol! at the last post! Thanks heaps guys and you are correct. I have purchased the SM codex and will be form my army from that. I have read through some of the "Famous Battles" of the Ultramarines and have made a Background Fluff story behind my army. Why the are painted they way they are and Chapter Master Origin and name along with Captain's Name and Origin. I'm quite happy with and will be posting it under the Fluff section. It will be called Sons of Orar. Feel free to read it and let me know what you think and correct any clashes I have made. There are bound to be some lol. Thanks again for your advice and help. And sorry for comparing Black Templars tactics to Orks. Lol


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

LordWaffles said:


> .......Warning however. Space marines a soulless and terrible army that will have you screaming the name of "PHIIIIIL KEELLLLLYYYY" in a spitting rage after orks mop up your last tac squad.



What in the name of Rogal Dorn are you talking about? Orks have crap characteristics when it comes to CC. Unless there are special rules in the codex I have not seen. Other than that the average Ork initiative is only "2" and the average LD is "7". I could imagine with characteristics like those, you could send them running home to momma easily when pitted against units such as BT Intitiates and Neophytes or BT CC Termies.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Treewizard648 said:


> What in the name of Rogal Dorn are you talking about? Orks have crap characteristics when it comes to CC. Unless there are special rules in the codex I have not seen. Other than that the average Ork initiative is only "2" and the average LD is "7". I could imagine with characteristics like those, you could send them running home to momma easily when pitted against units such as BT Intitiates and Neophytes or BT CC Termies.


Actually, Orks are excellent in close combat for their points, assuming we're talking the basic Ork boy. With up to four attacks on the charge (if armed with a choppa and slugga) at S4 and I3 due to _Furious Charge_, Orks can chew up and spit out most units in a heartbeat.


You are correct in that large Templar Crusader Squads are able to trounce them in close combat fairly easily though. This isn't because Orks are bad troops, but because Crusader Squads get so many attacks (in large part due to the number of models in each squad) at a higher I than the Orks that only a few greenskins ever survive to make their attacks.


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## Treewizard648 (Feb 4, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Actually, Orks are excellent in close combat for their points, assuming we're talking the basic Ork boy. With up to four attacks on the charge (if armed with a choppa and slugga) at S4 and I3 due to _Furious Charge_, Orks can chew up and spit out most units in a heartbeat.




Yes however I3 is still dismal compared to mightier enemies such as the crusader squads I mentioned before. But Orks can do very well in CC when it comes to fighting weaker enemies such as Imperial guard (unless they have taken the "Hardened Fighters" or "Preferred Enemy" regimental doctrine) or Tau (especially Tau) 

BTW, your signature Katie Drake = Hilarious


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## Oodles (Feb 24, 2009)

Yay my forums started a debate lol!!! Flame people!! FLAME!!!!!!!!!! hahaha. Ne ways,change chapter name due to there already being a sons of orar. Now it is Hand of Orar


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Treewizard648 said:


> What in the name of Rogal Dorn are you talking about? Orks have crap characteristics when it comes to CC. Unless there are special rules in the codex I have not seen. Other than that the average Ork initiative is only "2" and the average LD is "7". I could imagine with characteristics like those, you could send them running home to momma easily when pitted against units such as BT Intitiates and Neophytes or BT CC Termies.


Because a tac squad has no earthly chance to survive thirty orks. Or two nobs on bikes.(Not to mention a five man squad with boss, or even ten)

The initiative is how they playbalanced a SIX POINT unit. Orks are AMAZING in CC, possibly the best in the game with a thirty-wound powerklaw that strikes three times in combat(Stupid imo)
They're leadership(Fearless) until you get them down to ten orks(very rare to do this to all squads).

Templar have no problem because we kill so many of the poor bastards at I4, a regular space marine just gets trounced.


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