# woc nurgle vs skaven



## Freedirtyneedles (Oct 22, 2009)

o.k I just had my butt handed to me by a skaven player, I can't bear this shame again, i have a rematch planned soon and need to figure out how to crush him....any tips would be apreciated.
he runs mostly plague priests and censor bearers with slave screens. and I have a very infantry heavy force usually...with some good sorceror back up. The dice failed me lasttime, but I expected to be able to put up more of a fight than i did.....:angry:


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## Jolly Puggles (Aug 4, 2009)

If you could give me a more detailed break-down of what he fields, I could give you more specific advice, but this'll do for now...

The skaven weakness is moral. If you can get some of them to break, then the chance of the whole battle-line just collapsing is quite high. If you can target his Heroes and Lords with you own magic, do it. Without them skaven are a paltry Ld 5 (max 8 if they have full rank bonus).

Fist off though, you need to get past the slave screen. DON'T TAKE THE BAIT. Wait for them to come to you. When they do, hopefully the main block hiding behind the slaves will be within your pursuit range when the slaves break. If you don't think you can make the distance, then hold rather than pursue the slaves. Usually the main block should be more than 10" behind the slave-screen. this is to ensure that when the slaves break the unit that broke them is within charge range. If you hold, then they'll have to move toward you to come into range.

Alternatively, come at it from a different angle; literally. Skaven armies aren't that maneuverable. They're faster than average, but the use of slave-screens means that they pretty much travel in a straight line. Get round the side of that main battle line and the slaves are wasted.

Also, don't waste time or effort on Slaves unless you have to. They're worth 2 points apiece so although you'll take a lot of models off the table for targetting them, you're not accumulating any victory points. If you have an alternative target, go for it. Whittling down units of slaves just takes too long to have any impact on their combat effectiveness, so don't bother...just wait until they get into hand-to-hand and deal with them then.


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## Death Korp (May 31, 2008)

As said by Jolly Puggles, the Skaven weakness is leadership. Now, WoC have a good Hero combo for scaring Skaven off:

-Exalted Hero: Filth Mace, Enchanted Shield, Diabolic Splendor, Barded Warhorse.

This guy has a 0+ Armour Save (Making life diffcult for Skaven trying to kill him), the Filth Mace makes the hero cause terror as soon as he kills something and Diabolic Splendor causes all Panic, Terror and Fear tests to be taken with -1 Ld. 

With a unit of knights, he scares off loads of Skaven with their low ld.

Cheers,

DK


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

With the new Skaven Armybook the Grey Seers (imho sadly) have LD 7, thus handing out LD10 to all rats within 12". Skavens doesnt have bad LD as a general rule of thumb. You have to press them to make them have bad LD, like shooting away their ranks, or flank-charging them. The flank-charge will be hard if you play inf-based. Getting some Cavalry is a good solution here

Sniping the characters is a good idea, Magnificent Buboes will do this extremely well, which on top of all is a Nurgle spell!


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## Freedirtyneedles (Oct 22, 2009)

wow thanks for all the feedback,
we were playing a pretty small battle(500 points)
i fielded all I had painted at the time,
1o woc hw shield(nurgle)
15 marauders hw shield(nurgle)
5 chaos hounds
and a sorceror(nurgle)

he fielded
2 units of 20 slaves
5 plague censor bearer guys
and 20 plague monks with a priest in there
I think that's what he used.
I love the diabolic splendor idea...I could even put in the -1 ld banner to farther cripple the rolls.
to help whittle down the slaves i though of giving blood curdling roar to a hero, since it's any untit in line of sight. if he shows thursday, we'll be doing 1k pts and I'll find a way to get revenge.


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## Jolly Puggles (Aug 4, 2009)

Hmm...low pointage game. My first reaction to seeing that he had 2 units of slaves was to think he's made the first cardinal mistake of playing skaven. As a Skaven player, you lump as many slaves into one unit as you possibly can...that way, they actually have a use The strength of skavanslaves is in numbers. If a unit doesn't have significant numbers then it's just a crappy unit that's easy to pick off. 2 units of 20 slaves is easy to pick off; kill 5 in _either _regiment using magic/missile fire and both units are gone unless he gets lucky on his panic tests. With a 500pt game, those slave units should be within range to cause panic if the other routs. If he'd put all 40 into one unit, you're looking at killing 10 by missile fire to get them to run...his mistake is his weakness.

The Censer Bearer avoid like...well, the plague. If you can arrange it, try to get around them to the Plague Monks. Once the PMs are out of the way the Censer Bearers should go with them. If you must engage them, do it with your Hounds. I don't know the stats of Chaos Hounds but I'm guessing you'll be able to tie them up for at least one round.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Jolly Puggles said:


> Hmm...low pointage game. My first reaction to seeing that he had 2 units of slaves was to think he's made the first cardinal mistake of playing skaven. As a Skaven player, you lump as many slaves into one unit as you possibly can...that way, they actually have a use The strength of skavanslaves is in numbers. If a unit doesn't have significant numbers then it's just a crappy unit that's easy to pick off. 2 units of 20 slaves is easy to pick off; kill 5 in _either _regiment using magic/missile fire and both units are gone unless he gets lucky on his panic tests. With a 500pt game, those slave units should be within range to cause panic if the other routs. If he'd put all 40 into one unit, you're looking at killing 10 by missile fire to get them to run...his mistake is his weakness.
> 
> The Censer Bearer avoid like...well, the plague. If you can arrange it, try to get around them to the Plague Monks. Once the PMs are out of the way the Censer Bearers should go with them. If you must engage them, do it with your Hounds. I don't know the stats of Chaos Hounds but I'm guessing you'll be able to tie them up for at least one round.


Slaves don't actually need good numbers to do anything, units of 20/25, especially with the new rules as I understand them, are really quite useful, especially in low pointage games. Firstly, as long as the general is around, they'll always have LD 9, and even if you take off 5 guys, they're still LD 8, unless they get charged in the flank, where they become easy pickings. As long as they aren't setting up over-runs (and a canny skaven player will make sure they're not), they can be used very effectively, to pingpong enemy units, and even if they break first turn, they've made their worth if they pull a unit into a bad position. And then they explode when they die anyway, so they can make their points back that way, if they're positioned correctly.

*Freedirtyneedles:* Hows this for a plan, if you were using the same armies. Use your hounds to bait his frenzied units out of position, they're good for that. If you get some marauder cavalry, they can do that as well, and they can shoot while doing it. If they're using the slaves in front, don't charge them with your infantry, Slave will do very little damage to you, but if they set you up for a charge by the censor bearers or his monks, it can spell disaster. And don't chase them down if they attack, because then they just explode and do you more damage. Instead, use your warhounds to charge into their flank, they should be able to break them with a bit of luck on a good charge, losing all their bonus's because you hit them in the flank. Then his frenzied units chase your hounds, and you can try to countercharge with your main infantry units. 

Cast any magic missiles on his Censor bearers, they're the only real threat to your Warriors. As there are only 5 of them, they'll go down very quickly to the right attacks. Also I'm not sure of the new rules, but the old rules said that "models with the mark of nurgle only take a wound from the poision gas on a 6, so that would make it easier for you against them, though they still can do a bit of damage with their flails first turn. If you can get rid of his censor bearers, then even if his main unit of plague monks charges your warriors, and his slaves flank, you should be easily able to see them off. Button up with HW/S for a 2+ save and direct attacks towards the slaves - easy kills.

Anyway, that's just my 2cents.


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## Jolly Puggles (Aug 4, 2009)

The problem with small units of slaves is that they're vulnerable. Hit them with missile fire and magic and they'll have to start making panic tests. If you can get them to run before they lure you're units in, then they're not doing their job. I typically field a unit of 52 skavenslaves (that's 4x13 for those of you who aren't paying attention!) and I've yet to have them fail in their task. If I'd fielded two smaller units, then I can almost guarantee that at least one of them would have fallen to missile fire and run, leaving my main units vulnerable.


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## Freedirtyneedles (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm going to have to do my homework on the plague rules and mark of nurgle, it does seems rather silly that nurgle units die to the f-ing plague. those censor bearers are what caused so much havok. small points battles..i made a vow to myself that I would'nt field a unit unless it was painted and not buying anymore crap until all my stuff is painted, so i'm stuck at small points for a bit.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Slaves new rule, cornered rats is pretty good, when beaten in combat they inflict a fairly low strength hit to any model within 2d6 ( or was it 3d6? ) also casting death frenzy on a block, thus giving them frenzy for a turn is a bonus, although they will suffer a wound each with no armour save, but hell they are slaves, they can tarpit, act as missle cover and are dirt cheap.

I wonder what hounds would be like against slaves?


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Freedirtyneedles said:


> I'm going to have to do my homework on the plague rules and mark of nurgle, it does seems rather silly that nurgle units die to the f-ing plague. those censor bearers are what caused so much havok...


Those exceptions would be in the new Skaven Armybook in that case. The WoC book doesnt say sh1t about such things (as one would hope, since it was the same crap the last time) :no:



bobss said:


> I wonder what hounds would be like against slaves?


If the warhounds can get a flank on them then theyll do ok, otherwise they will fail miserably on all things other then redirecting charges. 3 ranks and outnumbering is a pain to beat with few S3 attacks.

3 Units of Warhounds would probably do it, since its hard to protect all flanks, but that costs 90 pts which will be an issue in a low pts game.

Regarding those Plague Cencer Bearers, the best chances you have of killing them is with magic missiles. The only shooting you can have is (Hillcannons not counted) mounted marauders, and they will have a hard time killing them with their low range weapons, and will defo not stand a charge from them. This means you must give up your "MoN everywhere" approach to get either MoT on the sorcerer, or no mark and use (preferably) Fire. One fireball/flickering fire might very well be enough to ruin their day


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## Freedirtyneedles (Oct 22, 2009)

k, the rematch was 2250 pts.....i CRUSHED his army like a bug! used a chaos lord, exalted and 2 sorcs...both had plague squal....that spell won it for me, hit one of his slaves with both squalls, and I swear to all that's holy i rolled 2 12's.....magic is amazing when it works.
the lord caused terror from the filth mace and got to roll on eye of the gods like 4 times! those rolls start making a freaking combat monster even nastier! anyway, long of the short, thanks for the tips, they really did help me out.


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