# Favourite "Secret of the 40k Universe"?



## Baron Spikey

I think my favourite secret revealed in 40k was the excerpt insinuating that the Emperor was the legendary St.George, putting a bit more evidence behind the ambiguous statement regarding his influence throughout human history

Beat that one!


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## shaantitus

True that wasn't a bad one. The second or twin primarch of the alpha legion was a good one. Especially for the long serving players it was a big surprise.


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## Androxine Vortex

Where did you find out that he is St.George?

I'm not sure if it's correct or not but my friend said that there was this member of the dark Angels interrogating a prisoner. He said that an Eldar Craftworld he just raided had Lion El'Johnson's lost sword. After fighting the entire craftworld he finds it only to find that it is the sword belonging to a taitor. (Again, not sure if this is correct or not so sorry if some facts are incorrect)


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## Baron Spikey

Androxine Vortex said:


> Where did you find out that he is St.George?
> 
> I'm not sure if it's correct or not but my friend said that there was this member of the dark Angels interrogating a prisoner. He said that an Eldar Craftworld he just raided had Lion El'Johnson's lost sword. After fighting the entire craftworld he finds it only to find that it is the sword belonging to a taitor. (Again, not sure if this is correct or not so sorry if some facts are incorrect)


Mechanicus.

And that is correct, it's in a short story compilation- it ends up being Luther's Sword rather than the Lion's thats found.


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## Belthazor Aurellius

My favorite "secret" isn't so much secret, but a not-widely-known bit of info. The meanings of the Chaos God's names. Khorne (supposedly used to be Khornash, so, Carnage), Nurgle (Nergal was an ancient Mesopotamian god of death), Tzeentch (Pronounced Zeen'tch sounds a lot like Zenith, meaning the pinnacle or turning point of a society, either a climax or a low point)... Though Slaanesh's name still remains a mystery to me.


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## Androxine Vortex

Oh that's easy. Slaanesh stands for sex, drugs, & rock n' roll


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## Belthazor Aurellius

I suppose it does, but is it a riddled name, a play on words, or just vaguely sounds like "Sexxx"?

Perhaps an amalgam of band names?


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## Androxine Vortex

It's not really a secret but I always thought that this was weird. All ov the names for the Thousand Sons are from middle eastern, egyptian, and especially zoroastrianism but Magnus is the name ov a Viking. Ironic who killed him isn't it?


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## Belthazor Aurellius

Now that you put it that way, _yes_ it _does_ seem a bit odd that GW deigned to play it out that way.


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## Hurricane

This is probably the most obvious secret (or well-known to us) in the 40k universe but I love the Dark Angels secrets.

You would think that Luther being alive would be their biggest secret but NO, the Lion is still alive within the Rock and his existence is only known to the watchers in the dark and the emperor. I'm not even sure if Azrael knows, but if he didn't that would be even more cool.


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## Baron Spikey

Sasha Nein said:


> This is probably the most obvious secret (or well-known to us) in the 40k universe but I love the Dark Angels secrets.
> 
> You would think that Luther being alive would be their biggest secret but NO, the Lion is still alive within the Rock and his existence is only known to the watchers in the dark and the emperor. I'm not even sure if Azrael knows, but if he didn't that would be even more cool.


Only Azrael knows that luther is still alive, none of the DA know about Jonson.


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## Belthazor Aurellius

Wait. Which one was the traitor and why? I only read the first of the two heresy books regarding them... :-(


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## hippypancake

Luther=Father Figure to Lion while he wasn't known a Primarch...Then Luther "betrayed" The imperium.

Lion=Priimarch


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## Belthazor Aurellius

Ah. So, Luther really didn't feel like he was betraying the Lion?

And why is Angron also called the Lion? Can't they find something different for one of the two? It's so confusing!


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## Baron Spikey

Angron isn't called the Lion, and the Dark Angels Primarch is called that because his name is Lion El'Jonson.


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## Serpion5

A loyalist chapter descended from a traitor primarch. And even they don`t know it themselves.

Go Blood Ravens!


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## Capt.Al'rahhem

I have to say my favorite secret or unknown thing in 40k is the true motivations and methods of the Alpha Legion. Are they secretly loyal to the Emperor &/or the Imperium. Did they actualy do what the Cabal wanted them to do? Did they side with Horus & turn to Chaos in some misguilded, or at least not understood, plan to save the Imperium &/or humanity?

There's just some many whys and what ifs with the Alpha Legion. I think it's awesome that their motives and methods are so obscure that no one knows what their actualy doing. It's just very interesting to me that no one seems to know what there doing but they odviously should have some kind of master plan for everything.


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## Belthazor Aurellius

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Angron was called the Lion on his homeworld... :-\ guess I'll have to re-check my research.


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## Davidicus 40k

Serpion5 said:


> A loyalist chapter descended from a traitor primarch. And even they don`t know it themselves.
> 
> Go Blood Ravens!


Yeah, I'd like to find out who the real Blood Ravens' Primarch was. Maybe in Dawn of War III, yay!


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## Androxine Vortex

@ davidicus 40k It would be funny it it was a THIRD Alpharius.


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## Belthazor Aurellius

Alpharius, Omegon... Tetragrammatron?


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## Bakunin

Androxine Vortex said:


> It's not really a secret but I always thought that this was weird. All ov the names for the Thousand Sons are from middle eastern, egyptian, and especially zoroastrianism but Magnus is the name ov a Viking. Ironic who killed him isn't it?


I feel its delibrate and is based celtic legend and history as well as viking culture. Like most GW fluff, they are borrowing from a number of sources to make an interesting conflict. In this case the conflict between Leman Russ and Magnus is playing out, to the extreme, two aspects of viking mythology and culture, namely the differences between the followers of Odin and the followers of Thor.

Thor, the god of Thunder, promoted action and war.Followers of Thor tended to be seeking new lands and are represented by the Space wolves with Leman Russ, of course, representing Thor himself.

Meanwhile Odin, although being more than capable in a fight, was a god opf knowlede and construction. his followers believed in the building of society and not so much conquest. He tended to be most popular amongst scandanavian farmers and the fact that similair gods exsist in other european cultures (such as the celtic god Lugus) suggest that trade, rather than warfare, was the most important idea amongst his followers (so his ideology spread through word of mouth not conquest. Odin gave up one of his eyes for knowledge and of course represents Magnus.

As such, the story of Magnus is the playing out of the conflict in viking societys (and unwritten conflict in scandanavian and Norht German mythology) between Odin and Thor. As is suited to 40K, Thor wins!

This explains why Magnus has a viking name. He was always meant to be Leman Russ' viking brother, but instead of promoting war, he always believed in knowledge first. As the 40K universe has been fleshed out, the characters and legions have been added to.

The Egyptian element might of just been added as a result of this fleshing out and was probably at first introduced simply because it fitted in with GW's ideas of what Tzeentchs followers should be like. However, I feel there is a delibrate reason for the continued focus on Egyptian myth.

Celtic culture, historically, came into sharp opposition with viking culture. Viking culture (particullarly the war like followers of Thor) expanded into traditional Celtic lands. The exsistence of citys, such as York, on the West coast of England as well as trading citys such as Dublin and Cork in Ireland are proof of this.

Celtic culture was less war like and more nomadic than viking culture and due to the position of celtic lands, had more contact with other cultures. Irish and Scottish legend tell of Sciota, the daughter of egyptian phaorohs, fleeding to these lands and bringing knowledge. Scotland got its name from this legend. The People brought magical knowledge from the celts. 

In the dark ages, a lot of Europena knowledge survived because of irish monks and Irelands isolation, with viking raiders being the main threat to these monks.

I feel that GW has basically based the whole Thousand Sons Vs. Space Wolves legend upon the conflict of knowledge based culture vs. warlike culture in celtic and viking history and legend. The egyptian aspect represents Northern European legends about knowledge gained from Egyptian influence in the mediterranean and trade that celts would of done with them. 

Obviously everything is played out to the extreme and twisted, with the followers of eternal war (Space Wolves/Thor worshipping vikings) winning in the end and knowledge and culture gained from other societys being crushed. 

I might be letting my imagination run riot, but in my mind it fits and explains how GW continued to develop their ideas, based upon two viking gods with different ideals, at war with each other.

Finally, fans of the Blood Ravens might be interested in the fact that Odin (the god who gave away an eye in exchange for knowledge) had two ravens who spend the day looking for facts on the earth which they then give to Odin in Valhalla at night.


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## Androxine Vortex

I agree with that. The Space Wolves are primarily combat focused, such as the Nordic Vikings and even in their mythology. It was ALL based upon brutal warfare and the glory ov battle.

The Thousand Sons on the other hand are more involved with "magic." The Egyptian mythology was primarily focused on ritualistic worship and the gods rarley battle, instead gave knowledge. I also find it interesting that the Egyptians were one ov the first to practice alchemy. The word is an arrabic word (Al-kimya or something like that) which means "MAgical craft ov the Black Country (This refers to the Nile for it's shores were black) Alchemy was always surrounded by mysticism and was thought ov as divine knowledge.

So having two polar opposite forces fight was a very proper way ov telling the story. Just as the story Magnus shared on Nikea whilst on trail before his father, they are fighting a war over speculation ov reason.


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## Belthazor Aurellius

One note on the origins of the name Alchemy. Al is from the Arabian dialect, however, Kemia comes from the Greek, Chemia, meaning the black land. On the subject of that word, Chemia, you might think of Chemos, homeworld to Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children legion. And what do we have from that legion? Fabius Bile. About as close a thing to an alchemist as the Space Marines have. Cool, huh?


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## vechi

My favorite secrets are the fact that the Golden Throne is failing and the Emperor WILL die. When he dies he will be reincarnated as either the Sensei-Emperor (Sensei are supposedly the children of the Emperor). All fo his children are being collected by the Illuminati, a secret orginization that plans to sacrifice them so the Emperor can use their energy to live on. They of course are lied to, being told they will help their father. Then the Emperor will lead a final war to pacify the Chaos Gods, and emerge as a true god. Or the "Star Child" Theory, in which when the Emperor slew Horus, a part of his soul, his compassion, was thrown into the Warp. There it laid, dormant, waiting to be born a god. Upon his death the broken piece of his soul will merge again with the remainder, and he will reborn again. The Last one is a tie between the Machine God actually being the Void Dragon, a C'tan with an affinity for technology or the fact that the Emperor WANTS Mankind to devolp into an all-psychic race to combat the Warp.


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## Davidicus 40k

Androxine Vortex said:


> @ davidicus 40k It would be funny it it was a THIRD Alpharius.


Would be funny if it's Chuck Norris. 

But let's think here... Alpha = first, Omega = last, so... what's Greek for "middle child (twin?) who was ignored because no one cared about him"?


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## predetor2u52

i think my favorite secret is the fact that there are so many fucking necron tombworlds the imperium dosent know about that its safe to say i think the emporer can find all of them then he would get owned by the nnightbringer lols:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:


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## Androxine Vortex

I agree, the necrpns are a force not to be reckoned with. Along with the fact that you stated, the necrons never have to worry about the Tyranids. The tyranids purposfully evade the necrons I'm sure and I don't think i can ever recall a battle between them. So that means they have one less enemy.


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## Androxine Vortex

It's not a big secret, just something lots ov people don't know about. I just read on the Lex about the Illuminati. They sound really cool but said they were a society. Can anybody become an Illumanati? Like perhaps a very powerful Space Marine?


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## Tensiu

Get posessed, beat the daemon and wait for Illumies to find you. They are surely damn powerful, as many inquisitors are among them. If they will decide you are worthy, they'll find you and invite.


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## Androxine Vortex

But would they be viewed as suspicious? Lets say for instance a Chapter Master does this. Would he be treated as a hero or what? And if they deem him worthy would he leave his chapter or just bear the title?


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## normtheunsavoury

The best secret of 40K, for me at least, is that Tzeench isn't really plotting anything. It's not a great master plan it's OCD, he just can't stop himself.
@ Androxine Vortex, the word OF does not have a V in it, never has never will, no matter what black metal CD's say.


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## Brother Azeek

My favorite secret - The Emperor's real name is Tracy.

(It had to be done!!!)


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## NiceGuyEddy

Apart from the extra primarch GW/Abnett decided to invent and the alpha legions motives already mentioned... 

Void Dragon on Mars thanks to the big E

Corax's invisibility.


A few minor "twists" are Barzano being an Inquisitor in "Nightbringer", Oriel not being dead in "Annihilation Squad"


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## ThatOtherGuy

The actual black library... wonder if they have a copy of the Necronomican is there...


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## Lt. James O'neil

yeah, but i don't think a space marine could win against a possession. To overcome something like that i figure you have to very strong memories ,(that of friends or your fallen comrades)a reason to live and a strong will. It also may help to be physically fit to withstand the torment that the demon would most likely cause. 

Disclaimer: Demons may focus on your most deep and intimate feelings and sad memories to break down your will so it is important to be at peace with everything you remeber.

also they may promise infinite power or something like that but try to remember that your soul will be sent to the warp for ever.

Space Marines > Chaos space marine or worse (I.E Demon spawn host thingy)
Imperial Gaurdsmen> possessed mutant freak thing (might not target them due to rapid cell digeneration caused by the demon)
Ork > I think demons realise there to stupid for their own good
Tau > I got nothing
Necrons > possessed possessed robots? doesnt make sense
Eldar > can be affected by warp demons

also does anyone know how to kill a warp whale?


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## Baron Spikey

Lt. James O'neil said:


> yeah, but i don't think a space marine could win against a possession. To overcome something like that i figure you have to very strong memories ,(that of friends or your fallen comrades)a reason to live and a strong will. It also may help to be physically fit to withstand the torment that the demon would most likely cause.
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: Demons may focus on your most deep and intimate feelings and sad memories to break down your will so it is important to be at peace with everything you remeber.
> 
> also they may promise infinite power or something like that but try to remember that your soul will be sent to the warp for ever.


You need will power to defeat a daemon, something most Astartes have in bucket loads- they're dedication to duty goes beyond any sort of 'will to live' most humans experience. 



Lt. James O'neil said:


> Space Marines > Chaos space marine or worse (I.E Demon spawn host thingy)
> Imperial Gaurdsmen> possessed mutant freak thing (might not target them due to rapid cell digeneration caused by the demon)
> Ork > I think demons realise there to stupid for their own good
> Tau > I got nothing
> Necrons > possessed possessed robots? doesnt make sense
> Eldar > can be affected by warp demons
> 
> also does anyone know how to kill a warp whale?


Actually Orks are extremely hard to corrupt for hte same reason Tyranids are- they're less a sentient race and more of a force of nature in their own right, every Ork has an unassailable belief that the Orks are 'da best', Chaos can offer them nothing they can't already get on their own.

I imagine shooting a warp whale would kill it...


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## Dave T Hobbit

Lt. James O'neil said:


> ...does anyone know how to kill a warp whale?


Drat you!

Now I have the start of a Moby Dick/40K crossover stuck in my head:

"It were in the Summer of 41776 that I fisrt saw the Warp Whale...."


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## Lt. James O'neil

Androxine Vortex said:


> But would they be viewed as suspicious? Lets say for instance a Chapter Master does this. Would he be treated as a hero or what? And if they deem him worthy would he leave his chapter or just bear the title?


I guess that would really depend on what chapter he is with, but i think most wouldn't trust him.

To respond to the last bit here, i still think ork's are to stupid to be possessed and i just don't think blind faith is all it would take to thwart a demon possession.:victory:


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## GrimzagGorwazza

I've always been a big fan of the extra two assassin founters Callidus, Calexus, Eversor, Vindicare, Venenum and Vanus. I like to think that the Vanus temple use assassin strike vessles to take down enemy flagships and then flee though we will probabley never know for sure.


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## Lt. James O'neil

Three words 

The mentors


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## deathwatch_v

Love the thread guys especially the symbolism and word references that some of you guys picked out. The Magnus vs. Leman odin/thor thought is great and probably very true. And all the little word easter eggs like fabius bile's home world relating to alchemy...so interesting, just shows the depth that GW goes to in weaving their stories.


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## Serpion5

I also find it interesting that the tyranids are somehow aware of the necrons. The fact that they go so far out of their way to avoid conflict has to mean something.


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## Cypher TFA

Even tho this isent really a secret my fav would be the whole story with Cypher and The Fallen and Stuff:grin:


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## nestersan

1) Not really a "secret", but probably unknown to the majority of people in 
the 40K universe.

The ability of the Emperor to heal machines at a word.

"Machine heal thyself" from Mechanicum was awesome.

I remember the mech pilot saying it works better than it had fresh out of the factory.

Considering the Emperors gift for fore-sight, I think he knew the mech and pilot were gonna be needed to play a role, and needed them at optimal conditon.

But to be able to heal machines with spoken word is the most "I am the Emperor" (badass) thing he has done so far.

2) The Emperor looks nothing like what people think he does.

In 'Legion', John says the Emperor dropped his "Glamour" to basically show John his true self.

Glamour meaning:
1. charm and allure; fascination
2.a. fascinating or voluptuous beauty, often dependent on artifice
3. Archaic a magic spell; charm

So it seems the Emperor is basiclly using some form of psychic mask to hide his true face, because what John saw nearly drove him mad.

I assume he is both using a psychic mask to hide both his true from and his psychic power. John says his power was beyond imagining, and his will was like nothing, he also said he looked nothing like his outward physical form


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## deathbringer

Not a secret but my favourite fact that everyone knows but isnt sure about
Is that there are more tyranids out there. I just think that fact is awesome.

Similar with the concept that if all the orks in the galaxy united under one banner they would conquer the imperium. 

I guess i just like menace


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## Supersonic Banana

It's not really a secret but just something that I love. If you traced the timelines onwards untill all the other races were dead due to war,etc. you'd just be left with tyranids and necrons in an eternal war as with the death of the other species there would be no more gods other than the c'tan and the hivemind which I think of as a god. Then the tyranids would just reabsorb their dead and the necrons just phase out and get rebuilt:shok:

Also I like that the necrons don't care who they are attacking our where they are attacking they are just trying to elliminate all life so actually the chances of a necron attack on terra for instance are very low. (not taking into account that it's sat on top of the ticking time bomb that is mars)

@serpion5 the tyranids don't avoid the necrons, just ignore them as they can't assimilate something that's metal so there is no gain in it.


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## Baron Spikey

The idea, that is never mentioned, that the Tyranids were astronomically close to this Galaxy during the Great Crusade is chilling (what if they'd hit shortly after the Heresy?)- I like the theory I once heard that it was the vast psychic resonance of Slaanesh's birth that attracted the attention of the Hive Mind...


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## gally912

I think my favorite is that the Deceiver and the Eldar Laughing God are one in the same. Too much irony not to just chuckle with glee.


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## Baron Spikey

Yeah but that not's a secret- that's a theory that is only popular with some people, others think it's a load of balls.


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## Lt. James O'neil

Fear the bugs! The hoarde never dies and the leaders are expendable. With no loyalty to swear, no honor to live by, lack of comraderie, leaving the only thing to live for is the next meal.


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## ThatOtherGuy

Hmmm, its not really a secret but... how is it that the c'tan are technically the first sentient beings? Are they the alpha or do they have precursors?

Also the other day I found out the Tzeetch is really Dan Abnett... that sick little bastard.


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## Baron Spikey

ThatOtherGuy said:


> Hmmm, its not really a secret but... how is it that the c'tan are technically the first sentient beings? Are they the alpha or do they have precursors?
> 
> Also the other day I found out the Tzeetch is really Dan Abnett... that sick little bastard.


The C'tan are the first life forms full stop. They formed at the same time as the stars, billions of years before the first terrestrial life (of which the Old Ones were amongst the first sentient, terristrial life).


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## ThatOtherGuy

Baron Spikey said:


> The C'tan are the first life forms full stop. They formed at the same time as the stars, billions of years before the first terrestrial life (of which the Old Ones were amongst the first sentient, terristrial life).


But are they the first sentient beings in the universe, or just in our galaxy?


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## Baron Spikey

ThatOtherGuy said:


> But are they the first sentient beings in the universe, or just in our galaxy?


I would say the Universe, they formed extremely early on in the Universe's creation, before planets in fact, and the conditions under which they formed suggest to me that the C'tan don't solely inhabit the Milky Way Galaxy.


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## Serpion5

The c`tan evolved from the same primordial energy that birthed the stars themselves. The necrontyr only awoke a finite number from their pure stellar existence. There could potentially be millions of them across the universe.

@SupersonicBanana: The nids DO avoid the necs. There is a map of a hive fleet giving a deliberately wide berth to an unidentified object in the back of the necron codex, accompanied by an inquisitor`s confused report on the matter. If it were a matter of ignoring them, they would have simply sailed past.


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## Lt. James O'neil

I would agree with that, but i think it actually has something to do with the fact that necrons are not squishy and organic like imperial guard.


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## Khargoth

It's generally accepted that the Void Dragon is on Mars, but not many people come to the conclusion that the Adeptus Mechanicus used to worship him, and in a roundabout way still do. The information is scattered, but it essentially goes that while cut off from Earth, the Mechanicus turned to worshipping a 'far darker' power. This _could_ be Chaos, no doubt in their thirst for knowledge they explored every avenue, but there's also the ravings of a mad adept by the name of Corteswain that claims that the technology of the Necrons were what the Mechanicus' ancestors plundered.

Then we have the Unification Wars. There's two possibilities here; the Mechanicus were unwittingly worshipping the C'tan as a god of the machine, or willingly pledged to it's service in exchange for some secrets of Necrontyr technology. In the case of the latter, there was probably a cover-up. The whole "We worship the Omnissiah as an aspect of the Emperor" is off-field enough that any other Imperial world would be cleansed and wiped from all records for such behaviour, but Mars represents such a material benefit that these misgivings may have been overlooked for so long they became the norm. The highest ranking members of the Mechanicus and some Dark Mechanicus adepts probably still know the truth about their patron deity.

Oh, another Necron related one. During the War of the Heavens, the Nightbringer used a Necron starship imbued with a measure of it's power. With it, it was able to consume the population of whole planets in the blink of an eye, and anhilliate entire systems with ease. The Old Ones managed to banish this starship into the Warp, meaning it's still there somewhere, floating for untold millions of years. Considering it takes the Planet Killer and Blackstone Fortresses at least several hours to destroy a world, this is a bona-fide 40k superweapon.


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## Belthazor Aurellius

Ok. So, aren't the Blackstones also Necron in origin (one's still owned by Imperium forces, one's posessed by Chaos, unless Ulthwe succeeded in destroying it, can't remember)?

And if this ship's been floating around in the warp, what would happen if it came back into existence as a warp-powered space hulk, destroying tomb worlds and hive fleets?


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## Khargoth

Belthazor Aurellius said:


> Ok. So, aren't the Blackstones also Necron in origin (one's still owned by Imperium forces, one's posessed by Chaos, unless Ulthwe succeeded in destroying it, can't remember)?
> 
> And if this ship's been floating around in the warp, what would happen if it came back into existence as a warp-powered space hulk, destroying tomb worlds and hive fleets?


The Blackstone Fortresses are the mythical Talismans of Vaul. They were built by the Eldar to try and combat the Necrons. It took twelve of them to _hurt_ the Void Dragon; the Eldar were hoping it'd be enough to kill it.

The Nightbringer's vessel coming back as a warp-powered space hulk is unlikely; the warp is so utterly anathema to Necron technology that it wouldn't be affected by the Warp, and the Warp would not react to it in turn. Unlike regular Space Hulks the Old Ones made very sure that this ship wouldn't be returning to real space; most likely it's buried very, very deep in the Warp, where even the most ancient of hulks won't reach in their drifting. The wreckage of a Monolith was found within the space hulk Unholy Harbinger, so it's possible for the vessel to make it back to real space that way. The Old Ones may have intended for it to be destroyed this way; eventually run out of power over sixty million years, whilst being smashed to pieces by drifting hulks like a rock in a fast-moving stream.


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## Belthazor Aurellius

Guess they should have used the magical number 13, to deal with the Dragon =P

Anathema means poison, actually. The warp, as such, would be poisonous to all necrontyr technology that was altered by the C'tan directly (living metal). If normal matter can be re-structured in the Warp, I'm almost certain that a ship created by the Nightbringer itself would be either destroyed outright, or warped over time into a nightmare for the C'tan. But, then again, GW could have meant to say that the C'tan are also anathema to the Warp (as in, a thing created by the C'tan would be just as bad for Chaos as the nulls in humanity - Sisters of Silence, for example). If that's the case, the ship would just have a giant gellar field. It would be a space hulk that occasional explorators and navigators would record as having as an eerily quiet spot in the warp surrounding it.


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## Khargoth

Necron vessels wouldn't have a Gellar field as such, as they don't use warp drives. They would, however, have to defend themselves against warp-based attack, so it's likely the living metal itself is resistant to Warp damage. Considering this is the Nightbringer's personal flagship, it would be all but indestructible. It would be like a shark made of adamantium in the ocean, totally foreign, completely ignorant of and immune to the world around it.

I can easily imagine it floating, dead still, in the Warp, seemingly immune to the terrible forces around it. No Warp presence, no Gellar field, appearing to be utterly lifeless. Considering it's also an immense Necron flagship, I'm sure anyone that discovered it would quickly find a reason to be _anywhere_ else.


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## Lux

Anathema primarily is defined as "despised/hated" not poisoinous.


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## Serpion5

The name of this vessel is actually the Nightbringer as well. In the novel (also of the same name) by Graham McNeill, the ship had been banished to the warp just before the star god went into stasis by a fleet of eldar and other Old One sired races in a desperate attempt to destroy the death god. They failed, but the ship itself was still lost.

When Uriel Ventris and the DE later awoke the Bringer of Darkness (as he is known in the book) he used a small device to bring the ship back from the warp. Whilst the creature was occupied fighting the UM, Uriel managed to deactivate the device and threatened to destroy it. 

And so it now rests in a vault on Maccrage. I have a feeling that eventually, the Reaper is going to want his Scythe back... :spiteful:


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## zas240

well hang on, if its locked on a fault on macragge, woudlnt that make macragge the first target? ok. Ultramarines, recall to macragge incase of necron invasion, and build a HELL of a lot of ships (lets count a blackstone fortress as say....4000 battle barges, so we need about (13x4000)= 52000, plus a bit extra for good measure. 
Now favourate secret would have to be....ok do theoryes count? that the emperor is infact tzeentch. Beat that. 
If you want rock solid secrets? that Lion eljonny is still alive, in the rock.


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## GrimzagGorwazza

zas240 said:


> Now favourate secret would have to be....ok do theoryes count? that the emperor is infact tzeentch.


If we're allowing theories then for me it has to be the whole, Sigmar is one of the missing primarchs and the reason he's been expunged form imperial records is that they never found him. Imagine how bad for publicity it would be if the imperium had to admit that they didn't know where one of the emporers kids was.


----------



## Baron Spikey

GrimzagGorwazza said:


> If we're allowing theories then for me it has to be the whole, Sigmar is one of the missing primarchs and the reason he's been expunged form imperial records is that they never found him. Imagine how bad for publicity it would be if the imperium had to admit that they didn't know where one of the emporers kids was.


If we're going to be allowing theories I'd recommend not suggesting theories that have been completely debunked by GW, after all Sigmar had absolutely no characteristics in common with a Primarch. He wasn't any stronger than most humans, any bigger, or smarter etc.


----------



## GrimzagGorwazza

Consider me told off.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Not told off, I just hear the 'Sigmar is a lost Primarch' angle too much. Other than being a great leader of men there isn't anything to suggest Primarch-like abilities so I'm always confused when people make the connection.


----------



## Khargoth

Baron Spikey said:


> Not told off, I just hear the 'Sigmar is a lost Primarch' angle too much. Other than being a great leader of men there isn't anything to suggest Primarch-like abilities so I'm always confused when people make the connection.


Probably stems from the rumours that the Warhammer World is a planet in 40k that's cut off by warp storms.


----------



## unixknight

My favorite secret is...

well I don't know what it is... It's a secret!

(Had to be done. My apologies.)

But seriously: The true size of the Black Templars Chapter. May as well just call it a Legion. Only the Inquisition suspects but with no hard evidence and with no hint of disloyalty ever from the Templars, they sort of let it slide.

Sort of.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Got to be Alpharius Omegon. The Lion being deep inside the rock. The machine god being the Void Dragon.


----------



## Belthazor Aurellius

Unixknight... sort of, like... they kill off four thousand Black Templars every so often, but then let the other half go? (number is a guesstimate, not backed by fluff to my knowledge)


----------



## Baron Spikey

Belthazor Aurellius said:


> Unixknight... sort of, like... they kill off four thousand Black Templars every so often, but then let the other half go? (number is a guesstimate, not backed by fluff to my knowledge)


No. There's nothing to suggest that half of all the Black Templars are culled every now and then- they're not rats or foxes, they don't get killed to keep the numbers down.


----------



## turel2

The Alpha legion stuff is my fav.


----------



## Dave T Hobbit

Baron Spikey said:


> There's nothing to suggest that half of all the Black Templars are culled every now and then- they're not rats or foxes, they don't get killed to keep the numbers down.


Pity; unless you keep them under control they will spread


----------



## Belthazor Aurellius

Baron Spikey: I figured as much, but when someone says the Inquisition "sort of" allows something, that to me suggests they're claiming that some Inquisitors _do_ make war with the Black Templars...

Dave: Why wouldn't you want BT to spread? They've got one of the best track records for anti-witch, anti-heretic and even anti-xenos in the areas they protect. Of course, maybe you're one of those genestealer cultists, and you don't want their influence where you live...


----------



## nestersan

My new fav is the fact that the Imperium's faith system is founded on the words of the staunchest supporter of the greatest threat to the Imperium itself.

How many of the Ecclesiarchy /Marine Chapter Masters/Inquisition/Lords of Terra know that the "Lectitio Divinitatus" was penned by Lorgar, Demon Prince of Chaos undivided ?


----------



## Angel of Blood

Or also that the Emperor deliberatly trapped the Void Dragon on Mars with the intention to create a technologically minded population of humans to provide the machines for the crusade


----------



## Stephen_Newman

I just want to know if Cypher is good or bad!!!!

I also want to know if any of the missing primarchs (vulkan, leman russ, corax and khan) are still alive somewhere.


----------



## Belthazor Aurellius

Wait. Nesteran, where'd you get that juicy bit of heresy?


----------



## Angel of Blood

Its in Tales of Heresy


----------



## nestersan

It is delish in it's irony. The book of the rebuked son is the template and foundation of worship for the corpse god. he he he.

Tales of Heresy:

Scions of the Storm

Page 204:

_'It was a lifetime ago when I wrote the Lectitio Divinitatus,' said Lorgar._


----------



## Belthazor Aurellius

Wow. I brushed right past that and it didn't even click. Damn.


----------



## Dave T Hobbit

Belthazor Aurellius said:


> Dave: Why wouldn't you want BT to spread? They've got one of the best track records for anti-witch, anti-heretic and even anti-xenos in the areas they protect. Of course, maybe you're one of those genestealer cultists, and you don't want their influence where you live...


Genestelers? Pah!

Tzeentch for the complex win!


----------



## Belthazor Aurellius

Tzeentch is an obsessive compulsive gambler, nothing more. He fidgets and twitches, and can't help his meddlesome attitude.


----------



## Endymion

Belthazor Aurellius said:


> Tzeentch is an obsessive compulsive gambler, nothing more. He fidgets and twitches, and can't help his meddlesome attitude.


That's what he wants you to think.


----------



## Belthazor Aurellius

Lol. Or at least, it's how Khorne sees him...


----------



## Endymion

Belthazor Aurellius said:


> Lol. Or at least, it's how Khorne sees him...


That's what he wants him to think.


----------



## dewn_moutain

hold the phone! :shok:

what is this? the primarch of the dark angels is in the cellars of the rock, where as luthar is out and about? :headbutt:

what the frack did i miss out on? i thought it was luthar down below...


----------



## Stephen_Newman

New mystery-why is every eldar vehicle crewed to precision by civilians who you would think have little time to be as good as they manouvering wise with their actual paths that should come first.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Luther is down below. When a marine is initated into the Inner Circle of the Dark Angels they are told the secret of Luther, that he is still alive and held in a cell deep inside the rock. He has gone insane and pretty much just seemingly incoherntly talks how the Lion is near and will come to forgive him etc etc. 

What none of the Dark Angels know though, is that even deeper still inside The Rock, Lion El'Jonson is held in stasis and watched over by the watchers in the dark. Only the Emperor knows of this and possibly Cypher.


----------



## Supersonic Banana

I find interesting that there is a whole entire LEGION from the first founding that is unaccounted for (the II). It has no primarch (sigmar?) and no fluff.

Not a secret but something that I find ironic is that Magnus and the thousand sons fell to chaos because they were trying to prevent Horus from falling and warn the emperor and the emperor upon his throne of allmighty bullshit desided to unleash the wolves and lose another legion to the Dark Gods.


----------



## unixknight

Belthazor Aurellius said:


> Unixknight... sort of, like... they kill off four thousand Black Templars every so often, but then let the other half go? (number is a guesstimate, not backed by fluff to my knowledge)


Nah by that I meant the Inquisition suspects their numbers are vast, but as they've never shown the slightest hint of disloyalty it's a relatively low priority to go after them unless they blatantly display their numbers, forcing the Inquisition to act.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Supersonic Banana said:


> I find interesting that there is a whole entire LEGION from the first founding that is unaccounted for (the II). It has no primarch (sigmar?) and no fluff.


Well two whole legions actually


----------



## Belthazor Aurellius

And if Sigmar is a lost primarch, where's his lost corrupted-by-chaos equivalent?


----------



## Tensiu

Legions II and XI, all informations were deleted. I think these legions turned to Chaos, but were soehow, fast exterminated.
Anyway, I have three favourite secrets - What is Cypher actually trying to do, who helped Tau with evolution and technological advancement, and why Farsight betrayed Ethereals.


----------



## Angel of Blood

I'm pretty sure GW have said more than once that the fantasy universe is not within 40k. Plus no way would Sigmar be a primarch anyway, there was nothing to suggest in any of the lore that he is like a Primarch in anyway.

I dont think the 2 legions turns to chaos. Dorn seems to know what happened to them even if they wont speak of it, yet at the same time Dorn find the betrayal of Horus utterly impossible until presented with evidence of it. I doubt we will ever find out either, annoyingly


----------



## Stephen_Newman

They never will be mentioned. They exist as the other legion (one went chaos the other did not) so that background wise you can have an individual chaos legion or successor chapter that is not related to current marines or chaos marines.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Well they so keep getting cryptic mentions as of late in the HH series and other media, but i doubt it will ever become anything more than cryptic


----------



## gally912

The missing legions, at least to me, appear to be a poorly developed Ret-con.

They were intended to be player homebrew legions. Anything else is an afterthought.


----------



## foulacy

I always liked the idea that the Emperor could be the hive-mind.


----------



## dewn_moutain

Angel of Blood said:


> Luther is down below. When a marine is initated into the Inner Circle of the Dark Angels they are told the secret of Luther, that he is still alive and held in a cell deep inside the rock. He has gone insane and pretty much just seemingly incoherntly talks how the Lion is near and will come to forgive him etc etc.
> 
> What none of the Dark Angels know though, is that even deeper still inside The Rock, Lion El'Jonson is held in stasis and watched over by the watchers in the dark. Only the Emperor knows of this and possibly Cypher.


yeah, i knew about the inner sanctum stuff, and luther, but where did you get your intel about the Lion?

and how could the emperor be the hive mind...although, all signs do point to it, since its the astronomicon that shines like a beacon for the 'nids to swarm to.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

foulacy said:


> I always liked the idea that the Emperor could be the hive-mind.


Really?! I've never heard that before! Where did you find this out?


----------



## Baron Spikey

dewn_moutain said:


> yeah, i knew about the inner sanctum stuff, and luther, but where did you get your intel about the Lion?
> 
> and how could the emperor be the hive mind...although, all signs do point to it, since its the astronomicon that shines like a beacon for the 'nids to swarm to.


One sign- that you've just made up.

The Hive Mind has been around for millions of years longer than the Emperor so that's the easiest way to say they're not one and the same (also I can't summon the energy to completely rip you apart :biggrin.

The only Dark Angel who knows about Luther being kept alive is the Grand Master.


----------



## Khargoth

But the Astronomicon could be why the Tyranids are now attacking this galaxy, like moths to a porch light.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Well I imagine it's psychic light does draw them in, but of any event that truly attracted the 'nids attention I'd put money on the birth of Slaanesh bringing them here in the first place- I can't imagine anything of less psychic power being able to reach across the void between galaxies to attract the tyranids.


----------



## foulacy

Androxine Vortex said:


> Really?! I've never heard that before! Where did you find this out?


On this very forum a long time ago. There where some very interesting theories in that thread, I'll try and dig it out for you.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

well i would appreciate that but don't go to too much trouble over it :biggrin:


----------



## Serpion5

It`s crap, that`s all that matters. There is plenty of fluff both new and old that makes it pretty clear as to the Emperor`s current status. 

His body is dead, his spirit fights in the Earth webway. 

The Hive Mind is an alien entity from another galaxy that is who knows how ancient. Their origins are unknown apart from the fact that they are not from this galaxy.


----------



## Belthazor Aurellius

Where are people getting this info about a webway? Is that in "A Thousand Sons"?


----------



## Baron Spikey

Belthazor Aurellius said:


> Where are people getting this info about a webway? Is that in "A Thousand Sons"?


It's also in the _Horus Heresy: Collected Visions_ where it goes into detail regarding the Secret War that Magnus' actions caused.


----------



## Imperious

*Truth about the loyalist primarchs...*

I'd like to know what really happened to the rest of the loyalist primarchs that haven't been confirmed dead! I mean completey 100% dead. 

Here are the realities and therefore, possibilities:
Jaghatai - in the webway smiting dark elves
Leman - in the Eye of Terror ripping chaos
Corax - also in the Eye of Terror probably helping Leman rip chaos
Robute - slowly healing in the stasis field
Lion - in the Rock
Vulkan - nobody fucking knows... 

The bottom line is that with these six, it is possible that they can come back. They're not 100% dead as far as I'm concerned. 

If anyone has any up to date news please let me know.


----------



## meinhardt

Davidicus 40k said:


> Yeah, I'd like to find out who the real Blood Ravens' Primarch was. Maybe in Dawn of War III, yay!


the thousand sons


----------



## Yog-Sothoth

One of my favourite mysteries; Was Konrad Curze just nuts or did the Emperor really betray him like a bitch. God, when i read Lord of Night, i was silently cursing the emperor for days


----------



## Baron Spikey

Imperious Rex said:


> Here are the realities and therefore, possibilities:
> Jaghatai - in the webway smiting dark elves
> Leman - in the Eye of Terror ripping chaos
> Corax - also in the Eye of Terror probably helping Leman rip chaos
> Robute - slowly healing in the stasis field
> Lion - in the Rock
> Vulkan - nobody fucking knows...


Corax left his Chapter, headed towards the Eye of Terror on his own

Roboute is dead, his corpse is in stasis to prevent it decaying (just like Sanguinius on Baal) but if the stasis field was shut off he'd keel over.


----------



## gen.ahab

"Roboute is dead"

Eh, eh, wow now, he isn't quite dead yet.


----------



## Baron Spikey

gen.ahab said:


> "Roboute is dead"
> 
> Eh, eh, wow now, he isn't quite dead yet.


_As he died the Apothecaries put his body into stasis_- that's what Index Astartes says and it doesn't exactly leave much room for interperation


----------



## gen.ahab

"As he died" Which means he wasn't quite dead yet. IOW, its like putting a patie- ok it is putting a patient whose organ system are shutting down into stasis. Even though he might have been a second from it, he still wasn’t dead.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Of course the less hopeful (realistic?) view point could be taken- he's a moment away from death and there's absolutely no way we can treat him, sounds like death (or certain death) to me


----------



## gen.ahab

I never said there was a way to stop it, just that the train hasn't quite derailed.


----------



## Belthazor Aurellius

Think of it like the current approach scientists have that, if you're rich enough, important enough and willing to take the risk, when you've got a terminal illness, and there is no cure this year... there's the process of cryogenic freezing, which "gently" freezes your already-unconscious-body (sedated for safety concerns)... the only problem with cryo is, there's no guarantee we'll have developed the technology to thaw you back to life by the time we *do* have your cure... Unless, of course, you're Mr. Freeze's wife, as we all know Mr. Freeze has the technology to thaw out his sick wife once he finds the cure....

Roboute Guilliman is dead. If he were "thawed" (stasis doesn't freeze, but you get my meaning), he'd probably have one (or two) heart(s) beat(s) left before someone declared time of death, and put him back in the stasis field to prevent decay... IIRC, the Emperor's body is in a stasis field too, but some of the Emperor enthroned artwork I've seen shows him to be a skeletal cobwebbed mass of dusty bones. Does that mean stasis fields only slow organic processes? Or does it mean the stasis field is the part of the Golden Throne that's malfunctioning in rather epic proportions?


----------



## Mossy Toes

My favorite secret? That the Eldar created the Tau, definitely. Sources? _Xenology_ and _Codex: Tau Empire_. There's really very, very few dots to connect once you have the right information...

I mean, the Eldar steal a Q'orl swarm queen in order to "build a swarm uncorroded" (according to Q'orl myth). Then, later, the warring Tau tribes are discovered by the Imperium--but a warp storm conveniently hides T'au from the Imperium, and the Age of Apostasy sweeps over, and more. Then the Tau tribes, fighting among each other, are interrupted by tall figures from the heavens that bring them the Ethereals, and the tribes eventually turn into castes. Then the Tau begin to expand and develop weapons at an unprecedented rate. Then a heretical Imperial xenobiologist compares the pheromone control organ in a captured Tau ethereal's brow to that of a captured Q'orl...and they are found to be exactly identical, in spite of the fact that the Q'orl are two thirds of the galaxy away from the Tau Empire.

Just a portion of the supporting data, really. But also quite intriguing! (sorry if we've already been over this--I'm in a rush and haven't yet had time to read through the whole thread)


----------



## gen.ahab

@ Bel,
If he would still have a heart beat, even one if it is one single beat, he can't be declared dead. He is dieing; he is not dead.


----------



## Angel of Blood

True but he's beyond circling the drain, he's literally about to fall into the plug hole.


----------



## gen.ahab

Oh, I agree, he is dead to rights, just not quite there yet.


----------



## Codex Todd

Isn't Roboute wounds slowly healing whilst in statsis? source Codex Ultramarines & Index Astartes


----------



## Angel of Blood

No, its literally impossible. It's the word of pilgrims and the common as it were. The Ultramarines themselves don't believe he is themselves


----------



## meinhardt

my favorite little secret was that Magnus would have been in control of the webway portal on Terra had he not screwed up.


----------



## Belthazor Aurellius

Well, a lot would be different if the Primarchs and the Emperor hadn't fucked up, but that's a superfluous point. For all we know, Magnus would have perished after a thousand years...

@ Gen Ahab. I agree that you can't call time of death until the last heart beat. However, it's already determined that Roboute Guilliman would die the instant the stasis field were turned off, and while he's kept in stasis, he's not really able to do anything except serve as a corpse in reliquary. Erego, I consider him dead, unless GW verifies that he _is_ actually healing with time...


----------



## gen.ahab

He can't be healing. Time has been stoped within the field, nothing can ever change.


----------



## Coder59

The Unholy Might Of The Grox Meat Trade Cartell! Why Doesn't Anybody Believe Me About Them!


----------



## Larmour

also so everyone knows in the horus heresy series horus goes back in time to kill the other two primarchs which we never get told about. But so everyone knows they make an appearance in mechanicum because there were 5 traitor legions at this point and the imperium ordered 15 legions to combat them. This also shows that Sigmar is not a primarch


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Larmour said:


> also so everyone knows in the horus heresy series horus goes back in time to kill the other two primarchs which we never get told about.


You've said this in about three threads now without justifying it...


----------



## Chompy Bits

Don't know how much of a secret it is but one of the most interesting things I think is that a blank that is exposed to a strong enough psychic force for an extended period of time can 'burn out' or become normal, as seen in the _Ravenor_ series (though I still don't get how that could work).


----------



## Serpion5

Chompy Bits said:


> Don't know how much of a secret it is but one of the most interesting things I think is that a blank that is exposed to a strong enough psychic force for an extended period of time can 'burn out' or become normal, as seen in the _Ravenor_ series (though I still don't get how that could work).


It is to do with the brain structure of a blank compared to a blunt or a psyker. Apparently they have a gene which severs their connection to the warp and blankets the area around them with the same effect.

The blank you`re referring to is Alizebeth Bequin, and she was "nullified" so to speak in the third book of the Eisenhorn series. A single blank versus a daemonically possessed Warlord Titan was never going to end well.

I believe the way it was described was that the constant barrage of psionic energy was too much for even her soulless ability to counter, and that particualar section of her brain was burnt out, rendering her comatose in the process. Apparently, much like a psyker, a blank can be worn out as well if forced to overexert themselves. 

All info gleaned from _Eisenhorn._


----------



## Svartmetall

Belthazor Aurellius said:


> Perhaps an amalgam of band names?


Don't forget the pop band Slaanesh Club 7...


----------



## Svartmetall

But here's the real biggest secret of the 40K universe; this is from the Director's Cut of 'The Siege Of Terra'...



As he entered, he could just make out the form of the only other occupant of the chamber. The subdued lighting served only to emphasise the aura of power that came from the seated figure, his eyes glowing a subtle gold in the gloom that matched the sheen of his impossibly ornate armour.

"Is it done?"

He nodded, leaning his massive mace against the stone slab that served as a table. 

"All of them? You're sure?"
"Aye. All of them. There's no turning back now."

The golden figure lifted his goblet and drank deeply. 
"This has been a long time in the planning. But oh, the end will be worth it."

The other figure took a long draught from his own cup, and stared across the table into his companion's eyes.
"Are you sure this will work, Father?"

"Horus, just do it like I told you - in the fifth round, you take a dive and I feign death. With a double knockout at 1,416,872 to one against, and you having just put a million credits on every bookie in the galaxy at those odds - we're going to clean up!"


_____


----------



## greyfoxuk

*History*



Androxine Vortex said:


> It's not really a secret but I always thought that this was weird. All ov the names for the Thousand Sons are from middle eastern, egyptian, and especially zoroastrianism but Magnus is the name ov a Viking. Ironic who killed him isn't it?


Most of the ideas that are brought out from GW are just copied from history, for example : Ultramarines - Very romanic and full of symbols - Romans and obviously imperial guard have the modern day soldier look. Another is space wolves, you could compare them with a sort of viking, saxon look. Alot of the ideas are just taken from histories warriors. Which i suppose is quite interesting. Looking at the fantasy side of it and most of it is copied from lord of the rings, it was finished in 1949 meaning most fantasy has risen from that, elves, orcs, men. And so on...


----------



## Chompy Bits

Serpion5 said:


> It is to do with the brain structure of a blank compared to a blunt or a psyker. Apparently they have a gene which severs their connection to the warp and blankets the area around them with the same effect.
> 
> The blank you`re referring to is Alizebeth Bequin, and she was "nullified" so to speak in the third book of the Eisenhorn series. A single blank versus a daemonically possessed Warlord Titan was never going to end well.
> 
> I believe the way it was described was that the constant barrage of psionic energy was too much for even her soulless ability to counter, and that particualar section of her brain was burnt out, rendering her comatose in the process. Apparently, much like a psyker, a blank can be worn out as well if forced to overexert themselves.
> 
> All info gleaned from _Eisenhorn._


Actually, I was refering to that perverted, chain-smoking, fat bastard who was Ravenor's blank and who started to lose his 'blankness' after having to watch over Zael when he was in a coma.

Still, thanks for the info. My memories from _Eisenhorn_ are a little rusty so I should probably read that book again.


----------



## AgentOrange24

Here's what I want to know.

We're told time and time again that without the Emperor sitting on the Throne, and the chorus of pyskers, the Astronomicon would fail and warp travel would be impossible.

Well, I've read all of the Horus Heresy books, and they seem to be getting around just fine. As far as I know, there's no chorus of dieing psykers, and the Emperor is happily scuttling around his work shop, not sitting around, and as Ciaphas Cain would say "keeping the universe spinning."

Hope someone can point out where I've missed something in this process. It's been bothering me for quite some time.

Oh, and speaking of Cain. My personal favorite secret is him. The fact that one of the "greatest Heroes of the Imperium is an admitted liar, coward, scoundrel and self seeking rogue."


----------



## Tensiu

I've just realised that symbol worn by almost all Chaos followers is in fact symbol of Malice, the Renegade God. Damn, he's good, making half of his enemies worship his own symbol.


----------



## Angel of Blood

greyfoxuk said:


> Most of the ideas that are brought out from GW are just copied from history, for example : Ultramarines - Very romanic and full of symbols - Romans and obviously imperial guard have the modern day soldier look. Another is space wolves, you could compare them with a sort of viking, saxon look. Alot of the ideas are just taken from histories warriors. Which i suppose is quite interesting. Looking at the fantasy side of it and most of it is copied from lord of the rings, it was finished in 1949 meaning most fantasy has risen from that, elves, orcs, men. And so on...


Aye but what he was getting at is all the 1k sons have Egyptian names and themes to them, yet Magnus their leader is based of the Vikings, and he is defeated by Leman Russ and the Space Wolves who are all based off nordic and viking influences.


----------



## Dave T Hobbit

Angel of Blood said:


> ...Magnus... is based of the Vikings....


Technically Magnus is actually Latin; the Scandinavians did not start using it as a name until after they had encountered Christian missionaries and Carolus Magnus (Charlemagne).

It is still a noticeably different name from the Ancient Near Eastern theme of the Thousand Sons; it is possible given that GW copywriters do include in-jokes that the link is Pompey the Great (Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus).


----------



## Serpion5

Chompy Bits said:


> Actually, I was refering to that perverted, chain-smoking, fat bastard who was Ravenor's blank and who started to lose his 'blankness' after having to watch over Zael when he was in a coma.
> 
> Still, thanks for the info. My memories from _Eisenhorn_ are a little rusty so I should probably read that book again.


Completely slipped my mind, but yes that`s another example. k:



AgentOrange24 said:


> Here's what I want to know.
> 
> We're told time and time again that without the Emperor sitting on the Throne, and the chorus of pyskers, the Astronomicon would fail and warp travel would be impossible.
> 
> Well, I've read all of the Horus Heresy books, and they seem to be getting around just fine. As far as I know, there's no chorus of dieing psykers, and the Emperor is happily scuttling around his work shop, not sitting around, and as Ciaphas Cain would say "keeping the universe spinning."
> 
> Hope someone can point out where I've missed something in this process. It's been bothering me for quite some time.
> 
> Oh, and speaking of Cain. My personal favorite secret is him. The fact that one of the "greatest Heroes of the Imperium is an admitted liar, coward, scoundrel and self seeking rogue."


You need to read Collected Visions for the general outline of the whole story, the HH series is taking forever to reach the main bit.



SPOILERS! Not really.

Essentially, the Emperor has a warp gate on Earth attempting to hack the eldar webway, Magnus` psychic warning of the Emperor about Horus broke the wards, allowing daemons to enter it. The Emperor was forced to man the throne indefinitely. Malcador briefly tokk over when the Emp fought Horus, but since after that fight, the Emp has been crippled and manning the throne permanently. From here he keeps the webway sealed and directs the astronomicon. 

So yes, he does keep the galaxy spinning, and yes, Cain is epic.


----------



## smfanboy

Angel of Blood said:


> Luther is down below. When a marine is initated into the Inner Circle of the Dark Angels they are told the secret of Luther, that he is still alive and held in a cell deep inside the rock. He has gone insane and pretty much just seemingly incoherntly talks how the Lion is near and will come to forgive him etc etc.
> 
> What none of the Dark Angels know though, is that even deeper still inside The Rock, Lion El'Jonson is held in stasis and watched over by the watchers in the dark. Only the Emperor knows of this and possibly Cypher.


Why would they want to have Lion El'Jonson in statis, I thought he was the good guy or did I missed somehting?


----------



## Angel of Blood

well i believe the direct quote is he's asleep, but alot of us assume this implies he's in stasis, after all he did get beaten up pretty badly by Luther


----------



## Baron Spikey

Woah- only one Dark Angel, the Grand Master, knows about the continued existence of Luther not the entire Inner Circle.


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## Angel of Blood

I thought it was all the inner circle, as i thought i remembered reading he still gets interorgated at times, and if the current grand master dies, how does his successor find out?


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## increaso

Angel of Blood said:


> well i believe the direct quote is he's asleep, but alot of us assume this implies he's in stasis, after all he did get beaten up pretty badly by Luther


Never really understood this fluff.

In some stories he's in stasis and in other fluff he was simply not there when the Dark Angel's found Luther.


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## Baron Spikey

Angel of Blood said:


> I thought it was all the inner circle, as i thought i remembered reading he still gets interorgated at times, and if the current grand master dies, how does his successor find out?


He gets questioned but only by the Grand Master (note it's the Grand Master's Sword that is the key to Luther's cell block), I presume there is some sort of failsafe if the current Grand Master is slain before he can tell his successor.


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## Angel of Blood

Hmm just read over the DA codex, must've missed that. Is it definetly not a retcon? i can't ever remember reading that before. Oh well. 

I don't remember reading any version where they find Jonson either, in all the versions i've read they find Luther but no sign of Jonson, just Luther babbling away about the watchers taking him


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## Serpion5

Angel of Blood said:


> I thought it was all the inner circle, as i thought i remembered reading he still gets interorgated at times, and if the current grand master dies, how does his successor find out?


I assume the midgets in robes tell him... Baron? CotE? Someone?


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## gothik

that the very religion the imperium is founded on was penned by Lorgar a son of chaos..bet he is loving that one and laughing all the way to the warp lol


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## sethgabriel1990

what the hell is the void dragon?


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## Dave T Hobbit

sethgabriel1990 said:


> what the hell is the void dragon?


One of the C'Tan; last known to be imprisoned within Mars.


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## Daddysen

Yog-Sothoth said:


> One of my favourite mysteries; Was Konrad Curze just nuts or did the Emperor really betray him like a bitch. God, when i read Lord of Night, i was silently cursing the emperor for days


The Emperor is a Douche!! He screwed over several of the primarchs, like Angron ( left his hopelessly outnumbered army to get slaughtered while the emperor wisked him away startrek transporter style ) And Magnus Yes he did mess up that portal and killed probably everyone near it but if the Emperor wasn't sneaking behind his suposed trusted Children primarchs then there would not have been an accident. also the Emperor being a very powerful psyker is a hypocrite for trying to Ban Magnus from using his talents. If he would have Trusted and Supported Magnus the thousand sons would still be Loyal and maybe more powerful than the Grey Knights as far as a psyker marine legion is concerned.


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## sethgabriel1990

cheers Dave Hobbit! still a bit rusty on the c'tan... (i was under the impression it was just another word for necron until i got on here)


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## space cowboy

If this were true, it would be my favorite secret:

The Emperor is really one of the 'missing' primarchs and the one from which the Custodes were created. Meanwhile, Malcador is _really_ the Emperor.

The reason I would even postulate this idea is the Emperor is supposedly just a man and Malcador has been hanging around with him since the Emperor first appeared publicly on Terra. This is an exceptionally long life for a man, even a powerful psyker, and it wouldn't surprise me if Malcador giving 'The Emperor' his last vestige of power was to continue the charade so that the people of the Imperium would have something to believe in while Malcador's psychic presence was really what drives the faithful of the Imperium.

The idea isn't as fleshed out as I would like, but it has been rattling around in my brain since I finished _Nemesis_.


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## sethgabriel1990

interesting theory space cowboy... interesting indeed :read:


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## Chompy Bits

space cowboy said:


> The Emperor is really one of the 'missing' primarchs and the one from which the Custodes were created. Meanwhile, Malcador is _really_ the Emperor.


If that's true, Malcador must have had a permanent facepalm going watching the Emperor act like a moron.:biggrin:


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## gothik

One of the lads in my group at GW today actually suggested that the Custodes were one of the lost leigons with the Emperor as thier primarch....this is a little spooky and he also believed that the Grey Knights are the other leigon although he had not yet worked out who the GK Primarch was still interesting conversation and he thinks that the unknown ones should kep thier mystery it would ruin the 40k universe else must admit i kinda agree with that


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## mcmuffin

My favourite secret is not a secret at all. i am just so impressed by the necrons ability to move from one side of the galaxy to the other in the blink of an eye without any use of the warp. I do like the mystery of the Outsider though, i would really like to know more.


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## Levendus

Please stop writing 'ov' 

It's 'of'


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## NiceGuyEddy

Baron Spikey said:


> Woah- only one Dark Angel, the Grand Master, knows about the continued existence of Luther not the entire Inner Circle.


Where did you read that? I would say most of the inner circle are aware of Luthers incarceration. From what I remember of the codex it is pretty vague on Luthers eventual fate other than he survived. The only other source I can think of is _Angels of Darkness_ by Gav Thorpe. In _Angels of Darkness_ Astelan is told of Luther's survival by Grand Master of Chaplains Sapphon within earshot of two skull faced robe wearing astartes, presumably chaplains, restraining Astelan as well as the novel's main charachter Boreas. I would also assume if the Grand Master of Chaplains knows of Luther's existence so too must Supreme Grandmaster Azrael as that's how the inner circle works i.e the higher the position the more secrets known. 

This is also one of the more reliable facts in the novel as everything else from it can be disputed due to it coming from Astelan and possibly being biased. That said I haven't read white dwarf or any of the other non black library publications post 2006 so if this has been retconned I wouldn't know.


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## Angel of Blood

I thought that more of the inner circle knew aswell, but Dark Angel codex says otherwise. Only the current grandmaster knows about Luther it would seem, how the next one finds out should the current grandmaster be killed i don't know. And apparently the lock to Luthers cell is opened by the grandmasters sword, so should that be lost when he dies, or it gets captured or destroyed somehow then Luthers not getting any company again...


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## NiceGuyEddy

Angel of Blood said:


> I thought that more of the inner circle knew aswell, but Dark Angel codex says otherwise. Only the current grandmaster knows about Luther it would seem, how the next one finds out should the current grandmaster be killed i don't know. And apparently the lock to Luthers cell is opened by the grandmasters sword, so should that be lost when he dies, or it gets captured or destroyed somehow then Luthers not getting any company again...


I see, _Angels of Darkness_ must have been retconned or something, annoying but not the first time I guess. You wondered earlier about the el'Jonson rumours... No idea either man, I'd say it's a fairly old piece of fluff, either that or a lexicanum rumour that picked up momentum :laugh:.


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## gothik

@Nice guy eddie

speaking of _angels of darkness_ wether its canon or Gav Thorpe licence the immortal line "he was waiting to see who won" that kind of sums it up for me wether like i say its author licence or canon the thought that the Lion was sitting out the fight and hedging his bets makes me wonder if he was actually the next one to have fallen had it not been for what happened between him and Luthor, the Lion was a law to himself who in my observations seemed to distrust most of his brothers if not all of them and the secrecy that shrouded the DA when he was instated kind of points to me that he was already heading the way of my way or the highway just my two pennaths worth


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## shas'o Thraka

I'm not sure how well know this is but here goes...

Konrad Curze may still be alive, the video message the High Lords of Terra recieved regarding his assasination showed The assassin leaping at Curze, then it cuts out....

I personally think Curze is still alive.


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## gothik

if thats the case then i can't wait for that one as Kurze is the dogs nuts in my opinion


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## The Crimson King

shas'o Thraka said:


> I'm not sure how well know this is but here goes...
> 
> Konrad Curze may still be alive, the video message the High Lords of Terra recieved regarding his assasination showed The assassin leaping at Curze, then it cuts out....
> 
> I personally think Curze is still alive.


He really isn't...


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## Angel of Blood

He's very much dead. Read Soul Hunter


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

shas'o Thraka said:


> I'm not sure how well know this is but here goes...
> 
> Konrad Curze may still be alive, the video message the High Lords of Terra recieved regarding his assasination showed The assassin leaping at Curze, then it cuts out....
> 
> I personally think Curze is still alive.


Night Haunter is dead. 

Read _Lord of the Night_ and _Soul Hunter_, both contain several eye witness accounts of VIII Legion Astartes personally witnessing his death. _Soul Hunter_ even gives justification for why the vid-feed cuts out.


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## Chompy Bits

shas'o Thraka said:


> I'm not sure how well know this is but here goes...
> 
> Konrad Curze may still be alive, the video message the High Lords of Terra recieved regarding his assasination showed The assassin leaping at Curze, then it cuts out....
> 
> I personally think Curze is still alive.


I take it you've never read Lux's "Night Haunter is alive" thread, have you?


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## Baron Spikey

Chompy Bits said:


> I take it you've never read Lux's "Night Haunter is alive" thread, have you?


I wonder where that maniac wandered off to? Preach to some trees about the benefits of lettuce?


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## Chompy Bits

Baron Spikey said:


> I wonder where that maniac wandered off to? Preach to some trees about the benefits of lettuce?


:laugh:LOL, probably. Or maybe he's trying to sell them paper? Since the Night Haunter thing he's been fairly quiet. A couple of random off-topic posts in a few threads but that's about it. It's a pitty he hasn't had any more 'wisdom' from 'the old days' to share with us 'youngens'. Say what you will about the guy but you can't deny that his threads are quite entertaining.

BTW, I discovered a cipher key written in the ingredients on my cereal box and then applied it to the 4th Orks codex on page 37. It turns out everything Lux said is true and that we let our conventional way of thinking blind us to the truth.:shok:


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## normtheunsavoury

shas'o Thraka said:


> I'm not sure how well know this is but here goes...
> 
> Konrad Curze may still be alive, the video message the High Lords of Terra recieved regarding his assasination showed The assassin leaping at Curze, then it cuts out....
> 
> I personally think Curze is still alive.


Oh please God, for the sake of my sanity!

Not again!:shok:


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## Angel of Blood

Baron Spikey said:


> I wonder where that maniac wandered off to? Preach to some trees about the benefits of lettuce?


Haha, more than likely. I don't think i've ever seen a thread or poster quite so bizzare


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## aboytervigon

why the only loyal primarch alive is a daemon prince.


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## Chompy Bits

aboytervigon said:


> why the only loyal primarch alive is a daemon prince.


And who is this supposed to be?


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## Baron Spikey

I presume he's referencing Alpharius, but since we don't know if Alpharius became a Daemon Prince, or if he's even still alive, and his loyalties certainly don't paint him as a loyalist...


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## aboytervigon

fulgrim actually.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

aboytervigon said:


> fulgrim actually.


Yeah, because he's the epitome of loyalty...


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## Baron Spikey

Plus he's actually Possessed not a true Daemon Prince.


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## Chompy Bits

aboytervigon said:


> fulgrim actually.


Hmmm... yeah... could you explain that one please?


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## aboytervigon

he is a daemon prince and is loyal he's just got a daemon controlling him who's a possessive type.


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## Chompy Bits

aboytervigon said:


> he is a daemon prince and is loyal he's just got a daemon controlling him who's a possessive type.


Wait... maybe I'm misunderstanding you but are you saying he's a daemon prince possessed by a daemon?


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## aboytervigon

yes, yes I am.


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## Baron Spikey

He's a Primarch who betrayed the Emperor, I don't care if his perceptions were being screwed with by a daemon he still made the decision to rebel, and who is possessed by a daemon that has twisted his body to suit it's own desires.

So no he isn't actually a Daemon Prince as Fulgrim never ascended to daemonhood his soul was locked away in corner of his form and a daemon controls it now.


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## Angel of Blood

Shit, we mention Lux and we've got another crazy theory straight away. Fulgrim is not loyal at all, yes he may regret some of his decisions, but he decided to rebel, he killed many loyalists and killed Ferrus Manus. He never became a deamon prince, he's possesed by a deamon who is fully in control of his body, all Fulgrim can do is sit in a corner of his mind watching what the deamon does.


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## gothik

fulgrim ois loyal to one creature....the demon he is a slave too and Slannesh oh thats two my bad


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## Angel of Blood

I wouldn't say he is loyal to the deamon at all, it's imprisoned him in his own mind and damned him to a lifetime of suffering and despair. I wouldn't say hes particularly loyal to Slannesh either, he knew almost nothing about Slannesh or chaos in general before he was imprisoned. He was loyal to Horus, who is now long gone. I would argue that Fulgrim is loyal to no one.


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## gothik

wether thats so or not at the end of the day the loyal son got swayed by the words of his older brother and threw out all his loyalty to his father and allowed the thought of the pleasure take over and the pursuit of hedonism


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## Angel of Blood

I completly agree, i just don't think he has any loyalty to anyone anymore


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## gothik

not even to his sons, they all tr and find his world but apparently none ever do and what happened to Eidolin


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## WarMaster Sindr

Alpha legion their chant means when deciphered "For they Emperor" leaving the bomb


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## Chompy Bits

gothik said:


> ...and what happened to Eidolin


No one knows for sure. Some claim he's still merrily raping and pillaging his way around. I personally hope that he finally got executed for incompetence. For a lord commander that guy was a fucking idiot.


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## Serpion5

How about the illuminati? Are they still around, or is that stuff gone?

Because the idea of psykers immune to possession is awesome. How uber they must be, because even a primarch couldn`t beat back the daemon that took him. Fulgrim, the pansy... :laugh:


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## seb2351

Serpion5 said:


> How about the illuminati? Are they still around, or is that stuff gone?
> 
> Because the idea of psykers immune to possession is awesome. How uber they must be, because even a primarch couldn`t beat back the daemon that took him. Fulgrim, the pansy... :laugh:


I thought Fulgrim was tricked into possession ultimately by the demon offering oblivion from realisation of the evil Fulgrim wrought?


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## Serpion5

seb2351 said:


> I thought Fulgrim was tricked into possession ultimately by the demon offering oblivion from realisation of the evil Fulgrim wrought?


But I think Fulgrim came to regret the choice soon after. What I`m saying is he doesn`t have the strength to overcome the daemon`s control.

The illuminati, according to what I read of them, were possessed by daemons. They saved themselves through sheer strength and determination, casting out the daemon`s control and becoming immune to further possession. They are a secret order even among secret orders, having members within the inquisition and other agencies as they pursue their agenda.


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## Chompy Bits

Serpion5 said:


> But I think Fulgrim came to regret the choice soon after. What I`m saying is he doesn`t have the strength to overcome the daemon`s control.
> 
> The illuminati, according to what I read of them, were possessed by daemons. They saved themselves through sheer strength and determination, casting out the daemon`s control and becoming immune to further possession. They are a secret order even among secret orders, having members within the inquisition and other agencies as they pursue their agenda.


When I was reading _Fulgrim_ and got to the part where he got possessed, one of the first things I thought about was the Illuminati. He's a freakin' primarch but couldn't wrestle the control back from the daemon but a fruitcake like Zephro Carnelian could? Carnelian had help sure, but still, he's only human. Which makes me wonder, do you think Fulgrim could have gotten control back right after it happened if someone like Magnus was there to give him some assistance? Obviously it's not gonna happen now, but still, it makes me wonder as Fulgrim only got the multiple arm, blue daemony look after the heresy which makes me think that there was still a chance to save him during the HH.


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## hailene

Keep in mind that the daemon was corrupting him for months, if not years. And that not only his entire ship, but his fleet was infested by daemon entities. 

Also, he completely let down any sort of mental barriers he had when the daemon took control of him. There's a difference when you're playing tugawar while fighting the whole time, and an entirely different story if you decide to let go for a few seconds and try to win.


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## Angel of Blood

Hit the nail on the head there. Others like the illuminati did not willingly let themselves get possesed, it was against their will and they were fighting it the whole time. Fulgrim let the deamon in, entirely, allowed it to take control over every aspect of him, not realising what the consequences would be. Hell the deamon might have been able to erase who Fulgrim was, but decided to keep him locked away in a corner of his mind to suffer for eternity


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## gothik

Chompy Bits said:


> No one knows for sure. Some claim he's still merrily raping and pillaging his way around. I personally hope that he finally got executed for incompetence. For a lord commander that guy was a fucking idiot.


yeah a guy who tried to bully a Lunar Wolf no less and Tarik into the bargain i liked when Angron told him to be silent in front of his betters i was so laughing at that i half expected Angron to rip his smary head off and guzzle his blood i did like Tarvitz and Lucius and Fulgrim i just didn't like Eidolin he was a total Cock head in mhy opinion


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