# Corax and invisibility



## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

I jump to a lot of points in a scattered fashion and ask many questions so try and make sense of it.

spoilers below:



Just listened to the audio book raven's flight, a very interesting listen and sheds some good insight into Corax's character.

Aside from some things I found confusing like Corax leaving istivan without a scratch as opposed to some fluff I've read where he was shipped to Terra via a stasis pod, I thought of something.

No one knew of Corax's ability to become invisible except the emperor.

How is it that the emperor knew of this secret ability of Corax upon meeting him for the first time when the former landed on the latter's homeworld?

And if the Primarchs are based off the Emperor's DNA, then the emperor must have all the abilities of the primarchs as well and yet we don't see or hear of him employing such abilities.

If the emperor knew of all the abilities of the primarchs, seeing as how he designed them, and even Corax's most closely guarded secret then the secret homeworld of the Alpha Legion should also be known to him as well.

Whatever means the emperor used to find out about corax's ability, or if he just had a list of what abilities he wanted in each one prior to their creation, the manner in which he was drawn to all the primarchs was akin to a psychic beacon emanating from the planets they crash landed upon.

Alpharius was discovered by Horus, the former bumping into the latter as opposed to how all the other primarchs were discovered. 

So basically what I'm trying to say is that the emperor surely must have been drawn to the Alpharius's homeworld and sent Horus to the particular region of the planet only for Alpharius to meet him halfway.

In summary, the emperor knows all the abilities of the primarchs, their homeworlds, and their personalities. 

For him to not know of Horus's turn to chaos after his healing ritual seems to be at odds with his intricate, precognitive like perception.

And how is it that the imperial officer had dreams of the raven guard being in trouble when corax seemed to have no notion of sending him the dreams or even knowing who he was evident when the officer came to his rescue? I cant help but think tzentech had a hand in this.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Aside from some things I found confusing like Corax leaving istivan without a scratch as opposed to some fluff I've read where he was shipped to Terra via a stasis pod, I thought of something.


I've never heard anything about him being interred into Stasis. The generally accepted line is that he escaped Isstvan V, and returned to Deliverance.



Malus Darkblade said:


> No one knew of Corax's ability to become invisible except the emperor.
> 
> How is it that the emperor knew of this secret ability of Corax upon meeting him for the first time when the former landed on the latter's homeworld?


The Emperor may have designed such an ability in Corax, or realised Corax had developed such an ability, he was after all the most powerful human Psyker ever.



Malus Darkblade said:


> And if the Primarchs are based off the Emperor's DNA, then the emperor must have all the abilities of the primarchs as well and yet we don't see or hear of him employing such abilities.


Not at all. Just because the Emperor's DNA (according to some sources) was used in the creation of the Primarchs, doesn't mean that the Emperor maintained all the abilities that the Primarchs had/developed.

The Emperor could have artificially 'programmed' such abilities into the Primarchs.



Malus Darkblade said:


> If the emperor knew of all the abilities of the primarchs, seeing as how he designed them, and even Corax's most closely guarded secret then the secret homeworld of the Alpha Legion should also be known to him as well.


Why?



Malus Darkblade said:


> For him to not know of Horus's turn to chaos after his healing ritual seems to be at odds with his intricate, precognitive like perception.


The Emperor is not omnipotent. He didn't see Horus following Ullanor until the Siege of Terra (in fact Magnus only had a vision of Horus falling because Tzeentch shown him). He was also busy with the Imperial Webway, and following Magnus turning up on Terra via the Webway, the Emperor had to use the majority of the his powers to keep the Imperial Webway sealed.



Malus Darkblade said:


> And how is it that the imperial officer had dreams of the raven guard being in trouble when corax seemed to have no notion of sending him the dreams or even knowing who he was evident when the officer came to his rescue? I cant help but think tzentech had a hand in this.


Not everything can be explained simply with "Chaos did it" 

He may have been a latent Psyker for example. There are loads of explanations really. A lot of people have visions about what could possibly happen, the Warp is madness after all, a place where past, present & future intertwine.


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

Sorry Child of the Emperor but Corax was rescued in a stasis tube as he'd been critically injured as per Visions of Death (collected visions 4) page 20: "Corax of the Raven Guard was alive, barely, having been critically wounded in the fighting. His damaged body had been rescued as the few survivors of the massacre fled the battlefield, and was brough henceforth to Terra entombed within a stasis tube"

I'm wondering how this now fits with Raven's Flight which states Corax got off Istvaan V without a scratch as it also says on page 494 of Fulgrim it says about Corax's escape from Istvaan V "A band of Raven Guard smashed through a cordon of Emperor's Children who shrieked in orgasmic pleasure as they were cut down, too immersed in the sensations of their own pain and death to fight back. A black armoured captain led the breakout fighting his way towards a miraculously undamaged thunderhawk as his warriors bore the greviously wounded body of their primarch towards escape"

Cheers


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

zerachiel76 said:


> Sorry Child of the Emperor but Corax was rescued in a stasis tube as he'd been critically injured as per Visions of Death (collected visions 4) page 20: "Corax of the Raven Guard was alive, barely, having been critically wounded in the fighting. His damaged body had been rescued as the few survivors of the massacre fled the battlefield, and was brough henceforth to Terra entombed within a stasis tube"


I stand corrected then on that part, however he wouldn't have returned to Terra, he returned to Deliverance where he tried to rebuild his legion by tampering with the Gene-Seed. _Collected Visions_ although a very good read and includes some fantastic artwork often contradicts other sources, notably the IA articles and sometimes even contradicts itself!



zerachiel76 said:


> I'm wondering how this now fits with Raven's Flight which states Corax got off Istvaan V without a scratch as it also says on page 494 of Fulgrim it says about Corax's escape from Istvaan V "A band of Raven Guard smashed through a cordon of Emperor's Children who shrieked in orgasmic pleasure as they were cut down, too immersed in the sensations of their own pain and death to fight back. A black armoured captain led the breakout fighting his way towards a miraculously undamaged thunderhawk as his warriors bore the greviously wounded body of their primarch towards escape"


When _Fulgrim_ was written, I doubt there was even plans for _Raven's Flight_ - that is probably the explanation


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

It's my opinion that the survivors probably brought him to Terra so they could report to the Emperor and then took him back to Deliverance shortly afterwards. 

I didn't know that about the Visions. I'll take ur word for is as I don't know different but out of interest please can you provide examples of contradictions? I love that type of thing.

I've ordered Raven's Flight and since the Raven Guard are my favourite (loyalist) Legion I can't wait for it to arrive. I only know what happens in it as I read a post hear and missed the spoiler warning lol!!


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## Thousandth Son (Jan 28, 2010)

Perhaps the ability to become invisible is in fact some sort of psyker power? The Emperor is able to change how people percieve him (looking like a normal human being in _The Last Church_ for example) so maybe Corax inherited some sort of psychic mutation allowing him to become invisible to the normal eye?


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

in _The Last Church_ he was robed and covering his face making it difficult to see the details about him. nothing warpish about that. in _Fulgrim_ didnt it say/imply the only primarch that wasnt knocked out and walking on his own was vulkan? granted he was hurt and all. i recall something about ravenguard bodyguards carrying corax's broken/unconscious body back to the thunderhawks.


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

Regarding the Emperor's ability to "cloak" himself, I can only think that when he met Sang for the first time he must have cloaked himself somehow as it says in Index Astartes II page 32 that "The Emperor knew humility as well as divinity and he listened as intently as any warrior there."

Well knowing that the tribe of the Blood on Baal were (from IA II page 32 again) "often bent and stunted, their ropy physiques riddled with lesions and blemishes, their growth stunted by malnutrition and hunger." the Emperor must have had a pretty good disguise to hide in that crowd unnoticed.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Corax could not actually physically disappear, he just made other people not see him. The Emperor does something similar, projecting an aura around himself, an example would be when he enters Russ's feasting hall as just an ordinary man, but reveals himself when he gets pissed at Russ beating him in the challenges. 

In the Last Church, this seems to slip a bit and the priest sees the true image of the emperor. Magnus seems to do something similar, with the perception of his size shifting depending on his mood. 

As to the Emperor being aware of the ability, a psyker of his power would have no problem skimming this info from Corax's mind on the initial meeting. There is also the possibilty that all the primarch's abilities were bred into them to suit their specific styles. Corax was into stealth and hit and run tactics, so he can make himself invisible. Russ hated psykers, and had the power to kill telepaths with a scream.

This could further be proved by what Magnus says in A Thousand Sons about conversing with the emperor while he was still only a foetus in the test tube. If the Emperor knew what Magnus would turn into, it's not a stretch to think he knew what they all would.

As to the conflicting fluff, as in Raven's Flight versus HHCV, I always tend towards the most recently published. So IMO, Raven's Flight is the new canon.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

In the last church the emp is able to disguise his size and weight as well as his appearance. There is a comment where the priest wonders about the chair groaning under the strain when an aparrently normal sized person sits upon it.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

zerachiel76 said:


> I'm wondering how this now fits with Raven's Flight which states Corax got off Istvaan V without a scratch as it also says on page 494 of Fulgrim it says about Corax's escape from Istvaan V "A band of Raven Guard smashed through a cordon of Emperor's Children who shrieked in orgasmic pleasure as they were cut down, too immersed in the sensations of their own pain and death to fight back. A black armoured captain led the breakout fighting his way towards a miraculously undamaged thunderhawk as his warriors bore the greviously wounded body of their primarch towards escape"


If you remember how we first see Corax in Raven's flight you'll find this fits in nicely. He wakes up in a downed Thunderhawk Gunship greviously wounded and stands in the wreckage talking to Captain Agapita. In fact they have a discussion something similar to this.

"You should have those wounds seen to My Lord"
"It is nothing."
"That blast killed five Astartes! I would not dismiss it so lightly."
"I said, It is nothing. My body Recovers!"

Corax could very well have been wounded at Istvaan but that doesn't mean he didn't get back up again. He is a Primarch after all.

As for the discrepency between Collected visions and the BL theres quite a few. The Novels delve into things in far more detail than the Visions books. Although to be honest I don't remember Corax ever going back to Terra I thought he was shipped back to Deliverance to build up his forces and spent most of the heresy there seething that he couldn't join in on the Loyalist side. Shipping him back to Terra doesn't sound right if it were true surely the remenants of the Raven Guard would have been on Terra and Corax would have fought alongside his brothers during the Seige. I also thought it was Vulkan who got shipped out Via Status capsule, him being a bit thick and thinking to stand his ground in a hopeless situation.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Yeah the novels do now supercede _Collected Visions_- in _Visions_ Torgaddon is Horus' bodyguard and turns traitor as well, but in the novels he remains a loyalist 

and is killed by Horus Aximand
, whilst in all but _Flight of the Eisenstein_ Saul Tarvitz is a line Captain whereas both _Flight_ and _Visions_ refer to him as the First Captain.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> Yeah the novels do now supercede _Collected Visions_- in _Visions_ Torgaddon is Horus' bodyguard and turns traitor as well, but in the novels he remains a loyalist
> 
> and is killed by Horus Aximand
> , whilst in all but _Flight of the Eisenstein_ Saul Tarvitz is a line Captain whereas both _Flight_ and _Visions_ refer to him as the First Captain.


Yeah that problem about Saul Ive thought about as well. When we first encounter Saul I thought of him as a Captain over a company but he just doesnt necessarly mentions how many he got under his command. 

When he says he became first Captain (which could mean over 1st company) I take it as he's the first captain over 10th company, as there are a bunch of captains that just arent leaders over their own companies.

Does that makes any sense? My english isnt the best.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

forkmaster said:


> Yeah that problem about Saul Ive thought about as well. When we first encounter Saul I thought of him as a Captain over a company but he just doesnt necessarly mentions how many he got under his command.
> 
> When he says he became first Captain (which could mean over 1st company) I take it as he's the first captain over 10th company, as there are a bunch of captains that just arent leaders over their own companies.
> 
> Does that makes any sense? My english isnt the best.


Possibly, although we have to also remember that the First Captain in the III Legion didn't seem to have as much influence and authority as First Captains of other Legions.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

In 'Fulgrim", Fulgrim introduces Julius Kaesoron as his first captain. His role within the legion seems pretty analogous to other First Captains in most other legions.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

hailene said:


> In 'Fulgrim", Fulgrim introduces Julius Kaesoron as his first captain. His role within the legion seems pretty analogous to other First Captains in most other legions.


His role was the same as in he led the first company. But due to the strict hierarchy of the III Legion, and the inclusion of the Lord Commanders in that hierarchical structure he didn't seem to have as much authority as did other Legion's first captains - Abaddon, Typhon, Kor Phaeron and Santar as examples.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Did the chapters still exist at that time? If such is the case, many first captains could have existed. Would make the designations simpler somewhat, 1st captain 2nd chapter and such.


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