# Terminator Squad with Librarian or Chaplain?



## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm putting together an ever expanding force list and it's time to add some Terminators, it will be a team of 5, consisting of; Sergeant with Storm Bolter and Power Sword, 3 Storm Bolter & Power Fist Terminators and a Terminator with an Assault Cannon.

I have 130 pts to spare and I would like to add a Terminator Librarian or Chaplain to the squad. However I lack any knowledge of these 2 special beastys so the question I'm asking is, tactically which of the 2 HQ choices is the most beneficial to a squad with those dynamics? In a nutshell I'd like the pro's and cons of each.

*Tactical Notes:* _The Terminator Squad (and eventual HQ choice:laugh will not be in a Land Raider. They will more than likely be my central spearhead._

Thanks,

Kris


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## jax40kplyr (Sep 15, 2008)

The dynamics of both choices changed with the new codex (dropped them both down some so they are no longer the monsters they were in the old codex), but heres a general breakdown:

Librarian: 
Pros: Force Weapon standard, tactically flexible with LOTS of new powers, psychic hood negates enemy powers. 
Cons: Pay for invul save, have to upgrade to use two psychic powers, perils of the warp tests. Force weapons also downgraded greatly in 5th edition.
Overrall: Good to attach to a shooty terminator squad, as many of the psychic powers are shooting designed. Tactically more flexible than the Chaplain, but in tournament play you won't be able to continually switch your powers around. 

Chaplain:
Pros: Power weapon standard, allows rerolls in first round of combat for entire unit, 4+ invul save standard, makes attached squad fearless, can be upgraded with jump pack to attach to an assault squad. 
Cons: Have to upgrade for any decent shooting attack (plasma gun, etc), supporting ability is CC oriented.
Overall: Pretty much a CC character, is more surviveable than the librarium and greatly increases the overrall abilities of the attached squad in HTH. If you are going to take him, attach him to a terminator assault squad. Nothing like being able to reroll hits and reroll wounds from lightning claw terminators. Downside though to this is that a terminator assault squad is GREATLY benefited from a Landraider.


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

jax40kplyr said:


> The dynamics of both choices changed with the new codex (dropped them both down some so they are no longer the monsters they were in the old codex), but heres a general breakdown:
> 
> Librarian:
> Pros: Force Weapon standard, tactically flexible with LOTS of new powers, psychic hood negates enemy powers.
> ...


Thats excellent thanks, I reckon I'm going to go for the Librarian as he sounds too cool for school.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Jax has summed this up pretty well. Librarian combos well with shooty squad, chaplain for assault squad.

I'd strongly suggest going with gate for one of the librarian's powers, and then something shooty. In cc he will have the squad to back him up, and the use of his force weapon.

It's debatable though, whether it's worth giving the librarian terminator armour. He gets a better save and a 5+ invulnerable, but loses an attack. Kind of a toss up in my opinion, but with a hefty price tag. It may be worth giving him a combi weapon that he can fire after using gate, if you don't just want to make him an epistolary.


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

Someguy said:


> Jax has summed this up pretty well. Librarian combos well with shooty squad, chaplain for assault squad.
> 
> I'd strongly suggest going with gate for one of the librarian's powers, and then something shooty. In cc he will have the squad to back him up, and the use of his force weapon.
> 
> It's debatable though, whether it's worth giving the librarian terminator armour. He gets a better save and a 5+ invulnerable, but loses an attack. Kind of a toss up in my opinion, but with a hefty price tag. It may be worth giving him a combi weapon that he can fire after using gate, if you don't just want to make him an epistolary.


My problem is I only have 130 pts to spare and that just covers either a Chaplain or Librarian in Terminator Armour. Whats the impact of having him as an Epistolary and could you expand on the powers? I don't know what they do.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

There are a bunch of different powers for you to choose from so it isn't really possible to go through them all here, particularly because we're not allowed to just give out rules. They are all in the codex, which you will need to have anyway.

The basic deal though is that the powers are either for CC, for shooting (all with a pretty short range) or gate, which lets you teleport around the place with your squad. You can choose any two of the powers but only use one per turn, unless you upgrade the librarian to an epistolary for quite a lot of points, in which case you can use two.

Some powers are used instead of firing a weapon. If you have a power like that then you probably don't need a gun. That's good, because the basic termie armour package doesn't include a gun unless you pay a few more points.

To get maximum use out of gate you would need to either be an epistolary, so you could use a shooting power after teleporting, or to have a gun of some sort that you could fire. Otherwise the librarian teleports and then can't do anything else that turn - though the terminator squad with him would be able to fire all their guns.

Just getting him a storm bolter probably comes within your budget. Not spectacular but not a waste of time.


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

I'd recommend getting the Librarian the terminator armor, as from the sound of it these guys will be deep-striking onto the table...



> Tactical Notes: The Terminator Squad (and eventual HQ choice) will not be in a Land Raider. They will more than likely be my central spearhead.


...and therefore will be hit by almost every weapon your enemy has, as we ALL know what a mess any kind of Terminator squad can make if they get a chance to charge. Or will they be slogging their way on foot "Up the Middle"?


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

Deneris said:


> I'd recommend getting the Librarian the terminator armor, as from the sound of it these guys will be deep-striking onto the table...
> 
> 
> 
> ...and therefore will be hit by almost every weapon your enemy has, as we ALL know what a mess any kind of Terminator squad can make if they get a chance to charge. Or will they be slogging their way on foot "Up the Middle"?


Slogging there way up, I thought adding the Librarian to them would add some additional flexibility to them.


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## jax40kplyr (Sep 15, 2008)

Take caution though with deep striking your guys around the table though if you use the gate - besides the obvious mishaps if you scatter badly, you can lose the squad, you also run a risk of losing team members to the warp (covered under librarium powers rules).
I'm just not sold anymore on Librarians with GW's ever expanding collection of "Immune to Instant Death" rules for armies. Tyranids with synapse, Chaos bad guys, special items, psychic hoods, eldar farseers - all of these nullify the force weapon and/or psychic powers. They used to be bad a**es with familiars giving them Int 6 and their overpowered version of warp time, allowing them to reroll all failed armor saves, to hit or to wound. Toning it down in the new codex, they have some neat tricks but for the same points you could add a couple of razorbacks, drop pods, etc.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

More good points Jax.

For me, a lot of what you say goes for any HQ in the marine codex. In efficiency terms, comparing what you get with a character to what you would get if you spent the points on squads and vehicles, the characters don't do all that well in my opinion. Compare the killing power of any character to what you would have if you spent the points on predator destructors instead, and the characters are difficult to defend.

On the other hand, you do *have to *take an HQ. I probably wouldn't take a 2nd, but as the first a librarian is a decent choice I think. He comes "ready" without needing to be given a bunch of extra gear (unlike the captain and chapter master) and he can add some real utility to the army by teleporting guys around. He's not at all bad at shooting and CC, though it's annoying that he doesn't have any kind of invulnerable save.

This contrasts for me with the chaplain. I don't really like the idea of paying points for a reroll for my assault termies when I could just buy 3 more assault termies instead of the chaplain. I don't want termie armour for a chaplain, paying for the privilege of a 5+ invulnerable where I already have a 4+, and losing an attack. At least the librarian brings a trick that I can't do any other way.

Lots of the special characters are good, but aren't able to move around quickly. Someone like Sycarius or Lysander kind of wants to be put in a land raider, with a squad of friends, and that ends up costing 6-700 points - which is far too much in a small game I think. These guys also typically take combat tactics away, replacing it with something much less good (again, in my opinion)

The librarian comes with a psychic hood as well of course. Anything that prevents people from lashing your guys all over the place has to be a good thing.

In conclusion, I don't think the termies actually need any character with them but they are a good unit to go with your HQ - if that makse sense. I think a librarian is a decent choice as your HQ, but I wouldn't take *any* 2nd HQ as a marine player - I'd take more squads and tanks.

Now, a really fun unit to go with a librarian would be 20 sisters of battle. Teleport, fire 40 rending bolter shots, repeat. Scoring unit, too.


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