# Heaps of rumours



## Pickle (Jan 20, 2008)

First one in, both are from Warseer


> Okay, posting this here cause I gotta get going quick. Feel free to move it if needed:
> 
> The Dude’s spies are back in, and here’s the latest. Please nte this is all rumour, and some of it, I don’t really want to believe, but I pass it on anyway
> 
> ...


And second lot



> Just got my WD341 July 2008 US today...and I am looking forward to the new washes coming out and the Fluff filled 5thED rulebook (JJ says new Fluff!! ...
> 
> Sets:
> 
> ...


Some of these are interesting like the LOS Markerlight, New marine stuff and a drop pod that seems liek tis been confirmed.


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## Apoctis (Feb 14, 2008)

Looks good for peopl who play marines as all ways :angry::threaten::shok:


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## Rindaris (Mar 17, 2008)

There are people who play stuff besides Marines?!?!?!?! Blasphemy.


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## Lorgars_Champion (May 11, 2008)

Wish the 2nd wave Chaos came out a little sooner. Oh well, least I can get my Space Wolves up to speed.


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## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

Speeder Scout Transport??? :shok: What is that???


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## -xecutioner- (Dec 23, 2007)

palstic drop pod! woobwoob


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

i like the new IG in 09. that should be fun.


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## Carna (Mar 13, 2008)

I'm guessing getting the Space Marine Codex is a bad idea right now then?


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## Pickle (Jan 20, 2008)

Yeah, might be just a touch


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Bridging tank becoming a reality!? Grrrrrrrrrrrr, well there goes that cool fluff.

Oh and we get a Scout Transport Speeder? so a mini thunder hawk then?, oh more fluff butchered like cattle.

I wonder what will happen in the 6th edition SM Codex? The two fallen Primarchs reveralled maybe?, seems to be the direction they are going.

Not pleased.


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## julio d (Apr 20, 2008)

Jacobite said:


> Bridging tank becoming a reality!? Grrrrrrrrrrrr, well there goes that cool fluff.
> 
> Oh and we get a Scout Transport Speeder? so a mini thunder hawk then?, oh more fluff butchered like cattle.
> 
> ...


umm... wow, some negative vibes there, it would make sense fot there to be a tank to fill the gap between an mbt like the Pred and a heavy tank/transport like the landraider and if scouts do get moved to elites then might as well give them a cool transport, (plus they're scouts they need ways to get around, answering with in game vehicle equals good fluff)


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## Lord Khorne (May 6, 2008)

GW is the eternal circle.
It creates and destroys.
Inspires and demorilises.
Gives Birth and Murders.
That is Games Workshop.


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## Pickle (Jan 20, 2008)

That is so true, and now is quoted for eternity (or when I get a better one) in my sig.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

julio d said:


> umm... wow, some negative vibes there, it would make sense fot there to be a tank to fill the gap between an mbt like the Pred and a heavy tank/transport like the landraider and if scouts do get moved to elites then might as well give them a cool transport, (plus they're scouts they need ways to get around, answering with in game vehicle equals good fluff)


Yea you'd be right there lol. The reason I'm pissed is that the bridging tank is covered by fluff i.e. their STC is lost/never existed and in the case of the Scout Transport its never been mentioned that they have land speeders as transports. They don't actually need it to boot, they move by stealth not by transport.

Then there is the question of equality. They are adding stuff to SM's left right and bloody center but the same can't be said for the likes of the Dark Eldar/Deamon Hunters/Imperial Guard.


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## julio d (Apr 20, 2008)

ya, idk I guess they could have discovered the STC, like they did for the crusader, and I still think the scouts would need some kind of transport, because you can only go so far on stealth, but yeah they should definitely bring out the codexes that have been stale forever and the DH need stuff to keep up with chaos - especially after they removed daemonic gifts in the CSM codex which sucks for DH (I wanna see how they stack up against the new Daemons tho)


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

Thank god the marines are finally getting what they've always needed, more options. I know marine players must cry themselves to sleep at night when they think of how hard it is for them. After all, its not like they have a model for every option in their codex is it? or over twice the options on the FOC that some armies have.

The thing i think is most needed is the new tank, after all, its not like they dont have 7 heavy support choices already. In fact, i think it's criminal how limited marine players are for choice when it comes to heavy support. The whirlwind, land raider, land raider crusader, devastators, predator, predator annihilator, and vindicator just aren't enough to provide players with the options they require.

Thats why the new tank is going to be called the space marine destroyerlator, or perhaps the space marine killolizer. Why you ask? Well, its because they have so many tanks THEY USED ALL THE NAMES UP ALREADY! It makes me sick.


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## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

As far as the options go SM players are limited. We have 2 troop options right now. Marines and Scouts. Lets look at Chaos SM... they have.. well lets count Marines, Marines Undivided, Marines w/ Mark of Corn, Marines w/ Mark of Slush, Marines w/ Mark of Stench, Marines w/ Mark of Furgle, oh then we have Zerkers, Fluff Guard, Million Sons, and Noisy Marines. Wait thats not all.. all of these squads can come anywhere from 5 to 20 compared to SM 5-10. Lets see.. they all get up to 2 Special weapons or 1 + 1 Heavy compared to Marines with only 1+1 combo. Their Rhino is 15pts cheaper AND they come with BoltPistol/Bolter/and CCW compared to Marines with only Bolters unless they take some lousy trait to switch it over to Boltpistol+CCW, but nothing to allow both. And if they take the trait they have to take a downside. Whats the down side for Chaos?? Nothing. They are allowed to take anything and everything in their army no matter what gods they work for.

But Marines have 2 options for terminators you say?? Why have 2 options when you can combine the 2 and have mix and match for cheaper points!! Not only that but when you combine the number of Icons you can put on them you now have 6 different Termy options! Thats not all... when you look at it that applies to nearly every different Marine option. Assault Marines < Raptors + 5 Icons or no icon, Veteran Marines < Chosen + 5 Icons or no Icon.. Oh lets look at Devastators now.. 5-10 man team with upto 4 HWs compared to Havocs that are 5-20 with up to any combo of 4 HW/Special weapons + 5 Icons or no Icon.

Do you want to compare a Whirlwind to a Defiler?? Lets see which has the better the better armor? Defiler.. Which one has a stronger gun? Defiler.. Which one gun has the longer range? Defilers.. Which gun doesnt have a minimum range? Defilers.. Which one has multiple guns? Defiler.. Which one has CC attacks? Defiler.. Which one can move faster? Defiler..

Land Raider check
Predator check
Vindicator check
Dreadnought check

Sure SM get Crusaders... a vehicle which is worthless at anything over 24" but what do CSM get? Obliterators! Why have a vehicle which is only good at short range when you can get multi wound models which can shoot any energy weapon on the move, can deep strike, and has a 2+/5+ AS/Inv.

Marines have Land Speeders, Bikes, Scout Bikes, and Attack Bikes compared to CSM, Bikes w/ 5 Icons or no Icon, Possessed w/ 5 Icons or no Icon, and unlimited numbers of Chaos Spawns.

Marines get 3 HQ character options + Command squads compared to Chaos's Lords (with or without Marks/Daemon Weapons/Steeds) Sorcerers (again with or without Marks/Steeds), and last but no way least Daemon Princes.

Then lets top of your options with Unlimited numbers of Lesser Daemons which can be summoned be people inside Vehicles and Greater Daemons neither of which count against your FOC so can be used no matter what else you have in your army.

Then we can start in on your Named Characters.. SM have 5 named character options all of which can not be used in anything less than 1500pt game and are considered mediocre at best (Tigurius being the best of them IMHO). Chaos have 7 named options which can be used in any point size game and 2 of which are arguably among the top characters in the game.

Yeah... SM are the cheesy list.. whatever. Eat some bamboo and take a Xanax. (please note this was in no way a personal attack, just a rebuttal to the idea that marines have "to many options")


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I've always though CSM have gotten way too many options compared to SM. Take blood angels for example. they were the first army to have furious charge and feel no pain(then called ignore injury). New codex they don't have it anymore apart from special squad and one character, Berzerkers took it as standard now, Feel no pain is in nearly every 5th. ed. codex now... SM are screwed over when it comes to CSm...

Also for SM the statline is always the same, CSM have loads of ways of changing there statlines, strength, toughness, initiative all can be boosted in chaos where they stay the same for Space marines all the time apart from special characters and rules which Chaos have anyway. And They shall know no fear is nothing special either as the entire chaos army have high ld. 9 least for all marines...


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Which is the newer codex?
Which is a codex that follows a new format in regards to the way that lists are structured.
Which units follow cannon?


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

You're right about the newer codex thing and I'd say it'll be some bit evened up with 5th but not by loads


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

A lot of hatred for the new chaos codex there Bish, hatred i'm sure you remember i share, for a lot of the reasons you put forwards, primarily the ability to mix marks and marked units like you're in a sweet shop.



> Do you want to compare a Whirlwind to a Defiler??


I don't believe I compared anything to anything Bishop, I think I was merely commenting on the fact that space marines have a glut of heavy support choices that is only going to get bigger. 

I think we'd all agree if there is a problem with a unit, you don't add a new one, you attempt to fix the old one so it works correctly and becomes worth its points.



> SM are the cheesy list


You said it, not me. The only whiff of cheese attached to my post is actually coming from my feet...

Your argument is as mature as a schoolyard bully who, when confronted, points at his accomplice and turns him in, claiming: 'he punched him too, AND he pushed him over!'

In addition bishop my old mucker, you're using a straw man argument 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Anyway, not a personal attack, just upon the deficiencies of your argument mate.
A rebuttal of your rebuttal.


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## vindur (Apr 1, 2008)

Bishop other than the sergeant how are CSM termies cheaper?


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

chaos armies are not cheaper, believe me i have a large word bearers force and it was not cheap. chaos marines are better in that they have more special abilities depending on what legion your playing as i.e. the word bearers demagogue ability. or how since the world eaters are nothing but crazed lunatics they dont have to worry about moral. the chaos marines are easier to form to your play style, plus who doesnt like the bad guys?

they are simply more flexible than normal marines

the only bad thing is that they come in small numbers and that the normal chaos marine squad's moral is very low compared to loyalists, this can be a setback sometimes depending on how you play and who your playing against

All Hail Lorgar!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry just felt like saying that

Please do not spam the boards. This is not a chatroom, just make ONE post at a time. If you want to add to it after you post, use the EDIT button -G


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## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

vindur said:


> Bishop other than the sergeant how are CSM termies cheaper?


Other than they come at 30pts a piece rather than 40pts like SM? I dont know.

What I meant Panda about it not being a personal attack was that it was not aimed at you but at the argument that the SM are the list with to many options. Their not. They are among the most limited of armies when it comes to options in comparison to other armies. My comment at you eating some bamboo and taking Xanax was merely aimed at your name/title as your comments came off very hostile at SM getting anything new.

Do I think they need another tank? No, but I think they need a more flexible troop option. I wish they were like CSM in coming with BP/Bolter/CCW/Frag/Krak and the ability to take 2 Special Weapons per squad. The idea of scouts becoming Elites is rediculous... how can something that is an initiate and not even fully trained be considered an Elite??


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## vindur (Apr 1, 2008)

to give them fists or a pair of lightning claws its brings their points up to 40 making them the same cost as the SM ones.
The only model that is cheaper is the standard terminator sarge.

Its like saying my basic marine is cheaper than your one with a plasma gun. Of course it is, yours has a plasma gun.


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

> Do I think they need another tank? No, but I think they need a more flexible troop option. I wish they were like CSM in coming with BP/Bolter/CCW/Frag/Krak and the ability to take 2 Special Weapons per squad. The idea of scouts becoming Elites is rediculous... how can something that is an initiate and not even fully trained be considered an Elite??


Fully agree with you on the scouts as elites bish, a terrible idea.

Since tactical squads are supposed to be the most flexible troops in the game, i think the ability to take 2 special weapons is more than fair for them, and is also fluffy, especially for chapters like salamanders etc. - I think you are fully correct, and i'm sure that this will be adressed in the forthcoming codex. As, i'm sure will the krak and frag grenades becoming inclusive, as you say, it just makes sense.

As for the ccw and bolt pistol? I'm not so sure that's really necessary, it would be nice to keep a little variety between the armies, as they seem to be blending them all into one with a big rolling pin atm.

I maintain my argument though that new troop types are not needed. What is needed is to make what's there already work like it should do.
That will involve making tac squads more flexible like they should be, and i'm sure it will be coming.

Glad we're on (roughly) the same page now.


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## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

vindur said:


> to give them fists or a pair of lightning claws its brings their points up to 40 making them the same cost as the SM ones.
> The only model that is cheaper is the standard terminator sarge.
> 
> Its like saying my basic marine is cheaper than your one with a plasma gun. Of course it is, yours has a plasma gun.


They are cheaper because they are not forced to have that equipment. They get PW and can fight at normal init where as Marines are forced to have PF or you can go with the Assault squad and get LC or TH/SS combos. No flexibility and always forced to pay the more expensive cost whatever you do. It would be nice to be able to pay 300pts for a full 10 man squad rather than 400 to come with options I would really rather not have.


@ Panda 

Personally I really want all Marines to come with all of them as standard equipment. They set this standard with CSM and now Imp Marines should get it. If not the point of this would be why would regular marines ever get into HtH combat with Chaos as they will always be 2 to 1 better than them.. not only will the be able to come in greater numbers but they will be twice as good at combat. And we all know how much this game is based around CC at a minimum because there are twice as many CC phases that models can partake in than Shooting phases.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

On a slightly different note...

New units may be unneeded, but STC templates can be recovered. It's not as stupid a change as the Dark Gods deciding to be butt buddies instead of mortal enemies. 

I don't really get why they're bothering bridging the gap between the heavy weapons platform Predator and the assault vehicle Land Raider, since the Astartes are a rapid-strike army and not meant to fight line battles the way the Guard are. The vehicle that fits between a Predator and Land Raider is, honestly, a Leman Russ, as a MBT. 

Scouts are meant to be light recon... I can sort of see having something small and quiet able to drop a fire team off somewhere, purely as an insertion tool. Why it'd be in the army list, however, is beyond me.


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## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

The Son of Horus said:


> Scouts are meant to be light recon... I can sort of see having something small and quiet able to drop a fire team off somewhere, purely as an insertion tool. Why it'd be in the army list, however, is beyond me.



I agree that we dont need tanks. IF there is anything we dont need its another tank. But I do think scouts need a transport option. Im personally annoyed they cant take a Rhino or Razorback. If they want to give them a fast vehicle then I can see that. Maybe say somthing like a Rhino at armor 10 all the way around that can move fast or something.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

The reason scouts don't have transports is that They already move faster than tac. marines. The infriltrate allowing them to jump a good bit ahead of the linesw, plus if they're footslogging with other marines they get move through cover meaning they'd more than likely be ahead of them.... The main reason Scouts are elites is to show the rarity of them. They only have one company of them and that's rarely full. terminators ae in one company too so they followed it up that way.... I don't think they need a new tank as making a new standard vehicle will more than likely take away from special chapters vehicles. If it is going to be a Russ style vehicle it'll mean Space wolves won't be as special, their Russ option isn't great but you get where I'm coming from. If they made it an assault support vehicle it'd be too much like a baal... It wouldn't be too bad releasing more forge world stuff as citadel... like the helios land raider or prometheus


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Scouts as Elites (and Terminators, for that matter) is less a question of rarity and more a question of specialization relative to the core of the army. The Space Marine Codex is meant to be built around a Battle Company, rather than a Chapter's assets as a whole. Thematically, a fire team of scouts with scanning equipment would work ahead of the strike force, and relay enemy position information back to the strike force, which would then deploy appropriately. Scouts honestly aren't meant to be a main part of the fighting, and putting them in Elites also helps ensure that the bulk of the fighting gets shouldered by the Tactical Squads.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Either way you look at it it makes sense to have them as elites because of their specialised role.... I've played people who took two squads of scouts then made the rest of his army from terminators, tanks and bikes. I beat him but IMHO the army was a total attempt at powergaming...


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## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

Lets see Tau have Kroot which can infiltrate with up to 32 models in a single squad. Does that make them elite? Eldar have Rangers (which can become pathfinders) which are twice as deadly as SM Scouts should they also become Elites? Eldar also have Jetbikes in their troops choice which is obviously a FA for everyone else. What about Tyranid armies which can have troops customized to do just about anything you want? Or all the Legion troops for CSM? 

The argument that Scouts should be elites holds about as much water as a swimsuit model on ex-lax.

To look at it from a fluff point of view...

Scouts are Marines in training so everything a scout does a full fledged marine did one time and can do again if he has to. Codex Astartes also places no limit on the number of Scout initiates that are allowed into the 10th Company. As they arent counted as full fledged Marines they dont count against the 1000 Marine limit of a chapter. While this may make you think that a chapter is a 100 marines short of a thousand most people never think about the Techmarines/Librarians/and Chaplains of the Chapter which are not directly assigned a Company either. They 10th Company is never fielded as a company and all Scouts attached to it are dispersed throughout the chapter assigned to different companies and units for training purposes. When a Scout earns his armor/black carapace he is usually indoctrinated strait into the company that he has been assisting.

Now in the case of Space Wolves their Scout units are the best of the best troops and as such their Scouts do count as Elites for game purposes (not to mention they have some really kick ass infiltration skillz


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Bishop120 said:


> As far as the options go SM players are limited. We have 2 troop options right now. Marines and Scouts. Lets look at Chaos SM... they have.. well lets count Marines, Marines Undivided, Marines w/ Mark of Corn, Marines w/ Mark of Slush, Marines w/ Mark of Stench, Marines w/ Mark of Furgle, oh then we have Zerkers, Fluff Guard, Million Sons, and Noisy Marines.


You're defining a squad bearing special equipment as an entirely different troop choice...and it's not. We've got five choices for troops. 'nilla Marines, Khorne, Slaanesh, Thousand sons, and Nurgle boiz. 



Bishop120 said:


> Wait thats not all.. all of these squads can come anywhere from 5 to 20 compared to SM 5-10. Lets see.. they all get up to 2 Special weapons or 1 + 1 Heavy compared to Marines with only 1+1 combo.


We only get that second special/heavy weapon once we get past the tenth marine in the squad. Also our heavy options don't include a multi-melta, or asscan.



Bishop120 said:


> Their Rhino is 15pts cheaper AND they come with BoltPistol/Bolter/and CCW compared to Marines with only Bolters unless they take some lousy trait to switch it over to Boltpistol+CCW, but nothing to allow both. And if they take the trait they have to take a downside. Whats the down side for Chaos?? Nothing. They are allowed to take anything and everything in their army no matter what gods they work for.


The downside of chaos? We don't have a broken trait system and crazy chaplains letting us reroll things. Also the only rending we can take is on possessed, and they're bloody useless. Also our weapon options are worse. Oh, and when we fall back, we keep going.




Bishop120 said:


> But Marines have 2 options for terminators you say?? Why have 2 options when you can combine the 2 and have mix and match for cheaper points!! Not only that but when you combine the number of Icons you can put on them you now have 6 different Termy options!


We have cheaper terminators with worse options for fighting. We don't get thunder hammers/shields. And we have exactly TWO choices for long range support. One is a flame thrower. And the other(Reaper autocannon) is very overpriced for what it does. Whoop-de-freaking-doo. Also we don't get first turn deep striking.



Bishop120 said:


> Thats not all... when you look at it that applies to nearly every different Marine option. Assault Marines < Raptors + 5 Icons or no icon,


Now here, I can't really argue. Raptors used to be god awful. Getting a squad of five together cost the same as terminators, and they costed way too much. And each squad can only take a single icon.



Bishop120 said:


> Veteran Marines < Chosen + 5 Icons or no Icon.. Oh lets look at Devastators now.. 5-10 man team with upto 4 HWs compared to Havocs that are 5-20 with up to any combo of 4 HW/Special weapons + 5 Icons or no Icon.


I can't really compare on veteran marines, I don't see many of them so I can only assume they aren't very good. But your devastators kick the crap out of our Havocs. You know that multimelta, plasma cannon, and assault cannon? 



Bishop120 said:


> Do you want to compare a Whirlwind to a Defiler?? Lets see which has the better the better armor? Defiler.. Which one has a stronger gun? Defiler.. Which one gun has the longer range? Defilers.. Which gun doesnt have a minimum range? Defilers.. Which one has multiple guns? Defiler.. Which one has CC attacks? Defiler.. Which one can move faster? Defiler..


Which one can hit harlequins at range? :biggrin:



Bishop120 said:


> Sure SM get Crusaders... a vehicle which is worthless at anything over 24" but what do CSM get? Obliterators! Why have a vehicle which is only good at short range when you can get multi wound models which can shoot any energy weapon on the move, can deep strike, and has a 2+/5+ AS/Inv.


Oh, and also they're T4. Hit them with anything larger than a melta and they pop. Also they no longer walk alone or shoot at seperate targets. Also "on the move" is an average of 3-4 inches a turn.



Bishop120 said:


> Marines have Land Speeders, Bikes, Scout Bikes, and Attack Bikes compared to CSM, Bikes w/ 5 Icons or no Icon, Possessed w/ 5 Icons or no Icon, and unlimited numbers of Chaos Spawns.


Possessed are in our elites choice. Not fast attack. Oh and chaos spawn don't even count. The only people who use them are those who don't have a model to replace it, or people with gift of chaos. We have two choices, raptors(Fantastic, I'll give you that.) or one-man bikes. And again, icons don't make the troop a seperate choice.



Bishop120 said:


> Marines get 3 HQ character options + Command squads compared to Chaos's Lords (with or without Marks/Daemon Weapons/Steeds) Sorcerers (again with or without Marks/Steeds), and last but no way least Daemon Princes.


So it's three-on-three...only we don't get a command squad. Also if you're going to count steeds, you might want to count the fact you can get jump packs.



Bishop120 said:


> Then lets top off your options with Unlimited numbers of Lesser Daemons which can be summoned be people inside Vehicles and Greater Daemons neither of which count against your FOC so can be used no matter what else you have in your army.


We can have -one- greater daemon who KILLS an aspiring champion, our chaos sorceror, or our lord. Also he deep strikes. So despite him being passable, he's ragingly unreliable.
And lesser daemons? Surely you jest. For two points more we can buy 'nilla marines.
Oh, don't forget we can't ally with ANYONE. Spess mehreins get daemonhunters, witch hunters, and guardsmen. (Never at the same time though, but still.)



Bishop120 said:


> Then we can start in on your Named Characters.. SM have 5 named character options all of which can not be used in anything less than 1500pt game and are considered mediocre at best (Tigurius being the best of them IMHO). Chaos have 7 named options which can be used in any point size game and 2 of which are arguably among the top characters in the game.


I will admit our special characters are decent, despite the fact that only a single one of them is immune to instant death. Oh, and one tears up our troops...

But in other news if standard marines do get the Bolter/BoltPistol/CCW, I'm taking a few spikes off my troops and switching over. Although I do agree scouts should remain troops choices. Giving them a noisy, two-seat vehicle seems slightly retarded.

And no offense, you just seem to be overestimating the renegade marine codex.


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## julio d (Apr 20, 2008)

why not just make them an 0-3 troop chocie then


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Also bishop you know the battle company box has 106 marines, plus 2 marines peer transport, that 126 marines.... they should be elites as they put more emphasis on the tactical marines.... And what are Dark angel's second troop choice??


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## The Lions Sword (May 16, 2008)

Seems to me that all they will do with all the new items is hike the prices up even more.......i have half a mind to start making my own molds


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## TrentLanthier (Apr 28, 2008)

Lord Reevan said:


> And what are Dark angel's second troop choice??


Depending on HQ choice... Terminators or Ravenwing 

I bet that most army new codexes will have similar roles, special characters that make Assault Marines count as Troops, a special Scout that has Scouts count as Troops etc.


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

I think the point was that there are other armies that could use the attention way more than SM. I love how space marines always use the OJ defense. This.... now this.... is a WOOKIE!!!


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

TrentLanthier said:


> Depending on HQ choice... Terminators or Ravenwing


Does that mean if a DA player takes a basic captain they only have tac. squads as their troop choice??


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## Holyboltshells (May 22, 2008)

It is kinda sad that Marines are getting the lovage yet again with regards updates and new models especially when some like Dark Eldar are in desperate need of overhaul.

However this is to be expected the Marines are the poster boys, the marketing tool therefore they get undue attention.

However i dont agree that the idea of a Land Speeder transport for scouts is fluff rape. I know the real world is not the best analogy but look at current day Special forces teams, often theyre dropped behind lines in Helicopters. Therefore to me a land speeder transporter for Scouts makes sense, as it would likely be a relatively quiet method of insertion.

Plus STC's are found occasionally. In addition a few years back the people at Chapter Approved (I know its not official) were asked why there was a Step on the side of the Land Speeder, they came up with rules allowing you to move single men, such as HQ units around. That is just an extension of a scout transport.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Well they do get the most work done on them because they are the first army to be released, they are the most common army out there and they are the GW flagship so to speak. Their iconograhy are on nearly everything so they would bring them to 5th ed. as soon as it becomes the standard edition....


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## carlosdjakal (May 22, 2008)

I think it's a shame that IG isn't until next year. I am really looking forward to a greatcoated army (fingers crossed)


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I do think however that all non 4th. ed. codices should be upgraded first. IG, dark eldar, space wolves and others should all get re vamped from 3rd. instead of revamping fairly up to date codices...


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

On the subject of scouts being elites, this makes it very difficult to have armies comprising mostly scouts and termies. It seems that the intention is that marine armies are planned to have tactical marines at their core. This makes it impossible to have marine armies with no power armour in them.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

exactly. there are too many marine players I know who have 2 5 man scout squads and loads of tanks and termies... it helps make tactical marines more important....


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## Druchii in Space (Apr 7, 2008)

I agree with the call as what Lord Reevan said has defiantely become a standard choice for many armies, I do feel for those making up fluffy lists based around 10th companies though, and would like to see a 10th Company Captain special character or something like it, something that would allow the few folks out there who field Scout forces to continue doing so, probably with restricted choices elsewhere.

But apart from that thought, the scout call is highly likely, as it seems many Codexes are being rewritten based on whats been seen on the tournie scene, although I'm still not sure if that is overly a good idea.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I would really like to see a scout only army though with proper choices etc. not just using them to comply with ther foc. they have a captain but thats power armour again. He's in the masters of the chapter box.


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## Bloody Templar (Jun 13, 2008)

According to those who have seen the book in England, Scouts are troop choices as before. The Scout transport (see Land Speeder Storm on any search engine or the art GW released in WD) is meant as an insertion tool and contestation device. You can drop off troops then move off to contest another objective. Allows scout reserves to be useful. Other than the redeemer pattern LR I have heard nothing solid about any tank additions. It would be nice to use Leman Russ's for Space Marines...


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Jacobite said:


> Yea you'd be right there lol. The reason I'm pissed is that the bridging tank is covered by fluff i.e. their STC is lost/never existed and in the case of the Scout Transport its never been mentioned that they have land speeders as transports. They don't actually need it to boot, they move by stealth not by transport.
> 
> Then there is the question of equality. They are adding stuff to SM's left right and bloody center but the same can't be said for the likes of the Dark Eldar/Deamon Hunters/Imperial Guard.


During Operation:Overlord, many of the Rangers and Commandos were inserted into the Normandy region by glider transport. Both use stealth to enter an area. Stealth only allows someone to enter an area undetected, if that area is a significant distance away, they still need a form of transportation. The space marines are a rapid deployment force, this means that they need to be able to move quickly, destroy what needs to be destroyed, and move on.



Lord Reevan said:


> I do think however that all non 4th. ed. codices should be upgraded first. IG, dark eldar, space wolves and others should all get re vamped from 3rd. instead of revamping fairly up to date codices...


A more positive way to look at this is to say that GW is taking more time on the forces they have neglected. Since less reworking of rules is necessary, space marines are getting a re-release first, then I.G. this gives more time to give enough love and attention to the armies like 'crons, space Druchii, and space wolves.


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

Someguy said:


> On the subject of scouts being elites, this makes it very difficult to have armies comprising mostly scouts and termies. It seems that the intention is that marine armies are planned to have tactical marines at their core. This makes it impossible to have marine armies with no power armour in them.



>. I agree very muchly wi you on this one. Theres fuckin nowt worse than comin up against a marine army wi 2 x 5 scout squads, then cheeses out wi elites and heavy etc. Gonna mess alot of power gamers lists up, cos they gonna have to take the staple o the army, which is tac squads. GW do something right for a change. :shok:. I do think the scout transport is a step in the wrong direction. Why do they need it, fluff wise, possibly, but game-wise, un-needed. Just an opinion, if ye agree, cool. If ye dont agree, its still cool.:fuck:


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## Big Dave (Jun 13, 2008)

Check out: http://gwforum.goboardz.com/forum_topic.asp?ID=6924

this seems to be a relatively complete rundown of the new smcodex


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