# Astartes vs Martial Arts



## Engindeer (Dec 1, 2010)

Enjoying the sunday? Then join me in this thread!

I always like to speculate about how tough a space marine is, so here goes...

I was wondering how much injury a modern day martial arts expert could inflict upon an unarmored astartes. Though I know little of fighting disciplines, I am aware of techniques within each respectable martial art, which have been described as downright lethal to use against an opponent. Punches to the temple, choking grips and break-neck kicks etc.

We all know that the rank-and-file battle brother is more than apable of handing any normal man his ass to him on a platter, but what if the naked marine just said 'Go ahead. Take a swing!' ?

Do you think a peak-fitness, martial artists' skill would be enough, physcally harm a space marine?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Astartes are 700 pound super soldiers with skeletal systems strong enough to withstand forces that was shatter a normal mans, strength to rip a mans head from his body and faster than any human being could ever hope to be. It would be no contest; the marine would devastate the human with little effort.


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## Engindeer (Dec 1, 2010)

Thank you gen.ahab for your quick reply, though you leave me wondering, whether you read my whole post?

I repeat: The Space Marine is passive and can't fend for himself

I like to think that the preternatal senses of a battle brother, makes him uncousciously flex the right muscles just before any impact to cushion the force, or just ride with the force to disperse the energy.


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

I think the best that a human could do would be to annoy a space marine. No of course if he went for the eyes he could do damage but with just punching and kicking, I dont see him doing much harm at all.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Yeah. The question was whether a human could inflict harm on a Space Marine.

I'd like to think yes. At least on soft targets. Eyes. Testes if they still have them (they don't really need them. And any loss in hormones could be picked up with suitable replacements fed straight from their armor).

How passive are we talking about, though? If a person is trying to snap his fingers backwards can the Space Marine resist by moving his finger the other way?

If not, I'd imagine you could break fingers if they used their body weight and physical strength.

Trying to break bones with punches and kicks seem unlikely. Even hitting areas without bone (the lower back) probably wouldn't avail to much. I'd imagine the thick slabs of muscles along the torso would absorb the blow. Though I'd imagine you could probably bruise a marine. I believe I recall marines being bruised for fairly substantial amounts of time (days, at least). Though those usually involve violent trauma that would probably kill a normal person several times over. A bruise from a person striking a marine would probably heal in a matter of minutes, I'd think.


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Passive Sm, ok....

Extended index and next finger directed through eye socket into brain.


Job done.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Engindeer said:


> Thank you gen.ahab for your quick reply, though you leave me wondering, whether you read my whole post?
> 
> I repeat: The Space Marine is passive and can't fend for himself
> 
> I like to think that the preternatal senses of a battle brother, makes him uncousciously flex the right muscles just before any impact to cushion the force, or just ride with the force to disperse the energy.


No, I did. However, I don't believe they would do such a thing. Given reaction time, the marine would have ample time to determine where the impact would be and if by some miracle the human found a weak point, the marine would react and plaster him long before he could ever actually land the blow.

However, I do not believe such a location exists on a marine as opposed to a human being... apart from the eyes, of course, but then the plastered against wall clause applies.

EDIT: However, if the marine just stood and took it without moving at all I suppose at some point the human could do some damage.


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

hailene said:


> Yeah. The question was whether a human could inflict harm on a Space Marine.
> 
> I'd like to think yes. At least on soft targets. Eyes. Testes if they still have them (they don't really need them. And any loss in hormones could be picked up with suitable replacements fed straight from their armor).
> 
> ...


the only way to inflict serious damage would be to to give him an indian burn with a power fist. oh wait he cant have thta. I guess they are invincible then lol


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> EDIT: However, if the marine just stood and took it without moving at all I suppose at some point the human could do some damage.


That is exactly what the OP asked. If a Space Marine did nothing to defend himself, could a human hurt him. And if so, how much and by what means.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

hailene said:


> That is exactly what the OP asked. If a Space Marine did nothing to defend himself, could a human hurt him. And if so, how much and by what means.


No shit? I got that. I just don't think it would happen.... I said as much in the same post. 

BTW, damage equates to maybe being able to take out his eyes. He can't break any major bones, he isn't going to be able to do enough soft tissue damage, and unless he has a fucking sword he can't bleed him. Most he can do is poke out his eyes or something of that nature since I am sure there is some weird ass way his temples are now super duper and can't be damaged.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Do not forget the protection afforded by the black carapace all full space marines have. At the very least, that covers the entire torso to a degreee (more upper than lower.)

I remember there was actually a point in the novel Angels of Darkness where one of the marines has an aspirant hit him with everything he has. The kid puts a blow in the center of the marines chest or stomach and the result is a broken hand from the ordeal because of the black carapace alone.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I don't see how people think poking their eyes out would defeat them. If you dud manage to pike their eyes out I doubt you would actually be able to get so far in as to fink their brain up, infact I don't even think it's possible to do anyway. And a blind astartes would still be able to destroy a human. 

I mean just how passive is this Astartes? Is he literally just going to take as much punishment as you can give? I'm fairly certain that aside from the eyes, you wouldn't be able to do any real damage.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Engindeer said:


> Do you think a peak-fitness, martial artists' skill would be enough, physcally harm a space marine?


Astartes are on a different level 

this is kind of like asking whether a martial artist could hurt a gorilla or a bear, I guess anything is possible, but the probability is dismally low 

I think it would be more interesting to wonder whether an unarmed Astartes could take on [insert type of wild animal here]


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Angel of Blood said:


> I don't see how people think poking their eyes out would defeat them. If you dud manage to pike their eyes out I doubt you would actually be able to get so far in as to fink their brain up, infact I don't even think it's possible to do anyway. And a blind astartes would still be able to destroy a human.


Try a small experiment..

extend the two fingers mentioned, now place the knuckles of your signet and little finger gently into your eye socket ( Closing your eye of course) whilst laying the extended fingers along the side of you head.

Look in a mirror or feel how far away those extended finger tips away from your ear.

Now think about that length of digit driven into there at speed with force then wiggling around in your frontal lobe.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Even poking out his eyes, which is about the only thing you could do, getting through his skull is going to be a whole different issue. 
I'm no anatomy expert but I don't think the the optic nerve is that big, not big enough to get a finger through anyway. Add to that the SM has a skeleton like concrete, you couldn't get your finger in there. 
As for any other techniques, punching and kicking is going to be a waste of time, you may as well go and hit a house for all the good it will do you. 
Bruises and cuts heal in seconds.
A human hitting a SM would be like a child attacking you with a sock.


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## revan4559 (Aug 9, 2010)

What if you tried biting them? That might work.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Viscount Vash said:


> Try a small experiment..
> 
> Now think about that length of digit driven into there at speed with force then wiggling around in your frontal lobe.


That`s all well and good but good luck penetrating the skull of an Astarte with your fingers. 

I doubt any kind of serious damage could be dealt to an Astarte. For one, the physiology of an Astarte makes their bones pretty much unbreakable for an unarmed human. The thickness and density of their muscles would serve as primitive armour and be difficult at best to damage. Combined finally with the black carapace and their healing ability and you wind up with a warrior who is never really unarmoured.

Finally I imagine that a Astarte would be trained to the point where they wouldn't be able to become truly passive. Their highly tuned reactions would have them moving to dodge, block and counter before conscious thought could intervene and hold them back.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

next time a bear charges me, I'll poke out its eyes


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

MEQinc said:


> Finally I imagine that a Astarte would be trained to the point where they wouldn't be able to become truly passive. Their highly tuned reactions would have them moving to dodge, block and counter before conscious thought could intervene and hold them back.


I'll again point to _Angels of Darkness_ for this one, a marine had an aspirant throw a punch at him with everything the youth could muster. The marine didn't flinch, move to counter, attempt to dodge, or anything. 

It is perfectly possible for a marine to stand still and take something like this, especially if/when he knows there is no chance the attacks can do anything to him. After all, aren't marines noted as being able to stand perfectly still for hours, almost passing off as statues, regardless of what is going on around them?


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

As for poking out the eyes, what if the Astarte has bionic replacements?


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Interesting and valid points popping up in the last few posts,

in humans the bone behind the eyes is pretty thin and a chap who can bust bricks, planks and other such stuff with his fingers would have no trouble getting in.

I wonder how much the few mm of bone behind the eyes would be increased by the geneseed process?

Is there a stated % increase in SMs bone structure?


Are we talkin passive or passive resistance btw?

Edit: It's ok, I promise to step away from the keyboard now lol.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I'm aware that it's possible to do it to a human, but we were referencing astartes here, and I'm willing to bet you couldn't do it to them. I assume said martial artist is going to have a step ladder to accomplish these feats?

Either way, I still think that beyond their eyes no real damage could be caused.


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Viscount Vash said:


> Passive Sm, ok....
> 
> Extended index and next finger directed through eye socket into brain.
> 
> ...


I think this will work. Also...



revan4559 said:


> What if you tried biting them? That might work.


Now we're talking. The average human can bite with a force of between 117 to 265 pounds using their jaw muscles, the world record is a staggering 975 pounds (achieved by an eskimo in 1992). That should be enough to pierce the tissue of an astartes which I would say is strong but not stronger than enamel. So conceivably with enough time a particularly strong stomached and possibly disturbed individual could chew through the majority of a space marines neck (astartes bone would likely be too much) if said space marine was retarded/incapacitated enough to allow it. It would also help if that person happened to be a guinness world record holding eskimo. Martial arts probably won't be that effective.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I can't see biting really working either, skin is much tougher stuff than people think. 
I'm not saying do it, but, think about how much pressure you would need to actually tear a lump out of someone.
Most human bites result in more bruising than actual flesh damage, taking a chunk out of the dense muscles of an Astartes would be near impossible, our teeth just aren't up to the task.


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## wombat_tree (Nov 30, 2008)

The Emperor's pointy sticks: Poke 'em in the eye!

I really hope someone gets this or I'm going to look like a complete idiot.


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> I can't see biting really working either, skin is much tougher stuff than people think.
> I'm not saying do it, but, think about how much pressure you would need to actually tear a lump out of someone.


Tell that to Mike Tyson.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Elbow to oesophogus to stimulate gag reflex (forces tongue against lower mouth), uppercut to knockhead back, blow to the throat again, (swallow tonque), punch to sternum to draw in breath, chokes completely on tongue.

You're unlikely to break bones aside from superficial ones designed to break, unlikely to sever spinal cord, due to strengthened spine and bones, and unlikely to be able to punch his nose into his brain. So; cause him to asphyxiate (which you couldn't strangle him with due to strengthened neck muscles and bones).

Best, and pretty much only way I could imagine.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

NiceGuyEddy said:


> Tell that to Mike Tyson.


Fair enough, but that was an ear. 
Your ear is thin and easy to get hold of, try doing the same to something as big as some one's neck or arm.
The thicker the thing you are trying to bite down on the harder it is to apply pressure.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> No shit? I got that. I just don't think it would happen.... I said as much in the same post.


Really? It sounds to me that you thought they were fighting.



gen.ahab said:


> Astartes are 700 pound super soldiers with skeletal systems strong enough to withstand forces that was shatter a normal mans, strength to rip a mans head from his body and faster than any human being could ever hope to be. It would be no contest; the marine would devastate the human with little effort.


How could a marine devastate anyone while he's just chilling and taking the blows? Unless they've grown spines or something? Damn you Goto! Not again!


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

hailene said:


> How could a marine devastate anyone while he's just chilling and taking the blows? Unless they've grown spines or something? Damn you Goto! Not again!


Same post would refer to the same post you quoted, not the previous one.... just thought you should know. 

What I was basically saying what that the only damage he could really cause was to the marines eyes and I really fucking doubt the pissed off giant with a chip on his shoulder and a superiority complex is just going to sit there and let the little twat paw his eyes out.

Basically, as long as he was just wailing on him I don't think he will do anything, but then again there is only so much he(the marine) is going to put up with.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

it's totally irrelevant how much bone a marine has behind his eye or whatnot 

I suppose if a silverback gorilla stood stock still like a statue, I might be able to seriously hurt it by jamming my finger into its eye, but how on earth would I pull that off under normal circumstances, even if I were some super-duper martial artist?

now, a marine is larger, taller, and arguably stronger, heavier, tougher, _and_ faster than said gorilla...
note that height matters here, because if the marine is 7 foot plus, it would only make it harder for an average sized person to "poke him in the eye", try poking 7'6 Yao Ming in the eye, you'll barely be able to reach his head


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> What I was basically saying what that the only damage he could really cause was to the marines eyes and I really fucking doubt the pissed off giant with a chip on his shoulder and a superiority complex is just going to sit there and let the little twat paw his eyes out.
> 
> Basically, as long as he was just wailing on him I don't think he will do anything, but then again there is only so much he(the marine) is going to put up with.


You're still missing the point. The question isn't whether or not a marine would be willing for a mere mortal to pound away without doing anything. This is a hypothetical situation where one of the given assumptions is that a marine is willing to stand there and take it all day.

I could make a thread and say "If during the siege of Terra Horus had a tea party with all the traitor primarchs, what tea would everyone pick?" I don't care how likely that they'd sit around and drink tea during one of the most important moments of the Heresy. I don't care that maybe Mort didn't drink tea. The assumption is that Horus is hosting a tea party and everyone came to drink tea. So within the breadth of that thread, you roll with that assumption.

That's why the OP asked if you read his post (which it sounds more and more like you didn't, at least at first).

And the one post you made a concession that a human could do damage to a marine it was within an edit. And the original material of the post you repeated your first post: that a marine's superior abilities and skill would allow him to not only prevent a human from hurting him, but in turn destroy the human before he or she could do anything. Which is, again, not what the OP asked. Not saying that it isn't true ('cause it is), but I'm saying it wasn't pertinent to the thread.

Just man up, say you made a mistake and we can move on. We've all misread things before.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

hailene said:


> This is a hypothetical situation where one of the given assumptions is that a marine is willing to stand there and take it all day.


if this is the case, the least a mortal could do is blind the marine in both eyes
kill a marine? 
...I'm not too sure

what an odd thread


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## AgentOrange24 (Mar 25, 2010)

Cain was able to hit a Space Marine with his chain sword in the chest.

The Marine was armored, taking it easy on him, and was never able to repeat the action.

So I guess normal humans COULD injure one, if they were armed.

And LOL @ the HH tea party.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

hailene said:


> You're still missing the point. The question isn't whether or not a marine would be willing for a mere mortal to pound away without doing anything. This is a hypothetical situation where one of the given assumptions is that a marine is willing to stand there and take it all day.
> 
> I could make a thread and say "If during the siege of Terra Horus had a tea party with all the traitor primarchs, what tea would everyone pick?" I don't care how likely that they'd sit around and drink tea during one of the most important moments of the Heresy. I don't care that maybe Mort didn't drink tea. The assumption is that Horus is hosting a tea party and everyone came to drink tea. So within the breadth of that thread, you roll with that assumption.
> 
> ...


Reasonable enough, yes, at first I did manage to brilliantly miss the point and then pussy foot around admitting it, but after that point it was more a refusal to believe the premise. 

The question essentially amount to "if you put a man with a small hammer in front of the wall of a city, which just happens to be protected by catapults and all sorts of wondrous devises that the inhabitants can use to rain death on the little mans head, and give him an unlimited amount of time with which he can use to take down said wall, without any opposition from aforementioned defenders, will he be able to take it down?" Well, obviously the answer is yes, given an unlimited amount of time he will take down that wall. But honestly at some point the defenders are going to get really irritated and land a rather large rock on the little shit head.... head. The same goes for this man, I am sure if he jumps on the marines head enough times it is going to crack, but at some point even the marine is going to say "fuck it" and nuke the little twat. 

Really, the fact that he knows Kung Fu is almost beside the point because anyone could kill a marine if they were given an unlimited amount of time and freedom from opposition.

HOWEVER, if I were to fully accept the premise, then yes, given unlimited time and freedom form getting your face fucked in from a size 18 extra wide foot, you could take down the marine.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> The question essentially amount to "if you put a man with a small hammer in front of the wall of a city, which just happens to be protected by catapults and all sorts of wondrous devises that the inhabitants can use to rain death on the little mans head, and give him an unlimited amount of time with which he can use to take down said wall, without any opposition from aforementioned defenders, will he be able to take it down?" Well, obviously the answer is yes, given an unlimited amount of time he will take down that wall. But honestly at some point the defenders are going to get really irritated and land a rather large rock on the little shit head.... head. The same goes for this man, I am sure if he jumps on the marines head enough times it is going to crack, but at some point even the marine is going to say "fuck it" and nuke the little twat.


this whole scenario is getting ludicrous
a regular man hitting a marine's head for 10 years...
let's analyze something slightly more meaningful, like whether a "regular human" expert martial artist could seriously hurt a marine if the marine stood stock still and let the martial artist strike him once, instead of whacking at him for all eternity


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Reasonable enough, yes, at first I did manage to brilliantly miss the point and then pussy foot around admitting it, but after that point it was more a refusal to believe the premise.
> 
> The question essentially amount to "if you put a man with a small hammer in front of the wall of a city, which just happens to be protected by catapults and all sorts of wondrous devises that the inhabitants can use to rain death on the little mans head, and give him an unlimited amount of time with which he can use to take down said wall, without any opposition from aforementioned defenders, will he be able to take it down?" Well, obviously the answer is yes, given an unlimited amount of time he will take down that wall. But honestly at some point the defenders are going to get really irritated and land a rather large rock on the little shit head.... head. The same goes for this man, I am sure if he jumps on the marines head enough times it is going to crack, but at some point even the marine is going to say "fuck it" and nuke the little twat.
> 
> ...


See, there you answered the question with your opinion: yes, yes a human could, eventually.

Now go into more detail. By what means (certain martial art techniques? Good old leverage?)? How much damage would happen? What kind of martial artist would you need?

Many people here, myself included, don't believe that a marine could be taken down. Even given very long lengths of time (days). You might gouge out his eyes and tear soft tissue (say, bite off his nose or ears), but I don't think you could kill him without something.

And even given your example with the castle, I'd still probably vote no. The hammer is going to give before the thousands of cubic meters worth of stone give. At that point could a human tear down the rest of the castle without any other tools (including the pieces of the castle you've already destroyed?)
I don't think so. Not without thousands or millions worth of years eroding the castle away with his piss.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I should have specified that the hammer was steel.

I already said that a human jumping on a marines head would, over time, produce cracks in the skull. Eventually the cracks would lead to the skull giving way and the death of the marine. Hell, given enough time he could eat the marine.



hailene said:


> What kind of martial artist would you need?


The jumpy, cannibalistic kind?


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Would it be enough? How strong are Space Marine bones? As you said, they're physical monsters. In Battle for the Abyss, a member of the Wolfguard takes a punch to the face from a Bloodclaw, no helm and I assume the Bloodclaws were wearing power armor (as the Wolfguard was. What sport would it be if he had another advantage?).

He shrugs it off without flinching. Granted it hit his chin and not the more vulnerable temple, but it should give you an idea on how tough their bones are.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Unarmed and unarmoured I don`t believe a human could kill a marine without some form of miracle. 

If both were given decent weapons however, I believe it possible for a well enough trained man to best an astartes.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

If the Marine isn't fighting back you might be able to triangle them if you can exert enough pressure to choke them, or get a neck crank going. It would be a feat of strength not a feat of skill though. You could jab your finger in their eye to try to disrupt their brain but thats not anything to do with martial arts though. No reasonable martial art would suggest poking someone with an extended finger.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Answer---> Chuck Norris and a Round house kick. Nuff said. :so_happy:

On Topic: Expert Martial artists use more tac then just kicking and punching the crap out of someone. They go for pressure points, weak points, soft points or whatever points in were they would do the most damage, so eyes are a definite go if the situation required it. I can see a EXPERT martial artist being able to break the SM's nose with a hammerfist blow (hand closed with a downward swing on the top of nose), cut or damage ears, blind or damage eyes, attack knee joints or back of leg, some neck damage possible, etc. Judo would not work since all the marine would have to do is flex and i seriously dont see anyone big enough or strong enough to be able to grapple a marine and win even if the marine didnt do anything. The marines weight and body mass is just too big.

Conclusion: Being able to hurt a marine without resistance? Possible. Being able to kill a marine or cause significant damage to seriously injure a marine? not happening. maybe in fairy tale land. maybe. (NOT)


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I could see a neck crank working against no resistance that is specified. Going for pressure points etc, striking at the eyes would not really do anything that had not already been achieved by the marine just sitting taking it. Woo you've knocked out a marine, now it's exactly like it was before you knocked him out! 

You wouldn't need to be an expert to break a marines nose if it's possible at all. You've got all the time in the world to line it up and do it


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> I could see a neck crank working against no resistance that is specified. Going for pressure points etc, striking at the eyes would not really do anything that had not already been achieved by the marine just sitting taking it. Woo you've knocked out a marine, now it's exactly like it was before you knocked him out!
> 
> *You wouldn't need to be an expert to break a marines nose if it's possible at all. You've got all the time in the world to line it up and do it*


Yes, but done improperly and with no previous experience can lead to a broken hand which can hamper any future tries and make it more unlikely that the nose will be broken. I like to leave it to experts so max potential is achieved and proper efficiency at the task at hand.


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

> Would it be enough? How strong are Space Marine bones? As you said, they're physical monsters. In Battle for the Abyss, a member of the Wolfguard takes a punch to the face from a Bloodclaw, no helm and I assume the Bloodclaws were wearing power armor (as the Wolfguard was. What sport would it be if he had another advantage?).
> 
> He shrugs it off without flinching. Granted it hit his chin and not the more vulnerable temple, but it should give you an idea on how tough their bones are.


Maybe so , but repeatedly kicking him in the jaw may eventually do some damage. I think the push him over and kick him in the head strategy seems to be the best.....or if he really was putting up absolutely no resistance you could suffocate him.

Either way if it is possible, it probably won't have anything to do with the assailants knowledge of martial arts, and a lot more to do with the marine standing there like a vegetable.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Engindeer said:


> I was wondering how much injury a modern day martial arts expert could inflict upon an unarmored astartes?


The only injury would be to the martial artist, with a broken hand or foot the likely result of striking a marine. The only spot on a marine any way vulnerable to a mere mortal would be his eyes, and you wouldn't need to be a martial artist to stick a thumb in his eye.



Varakir said:


> if he really was putting up absolutely no resistance you could suffocate him.


Probably not. With highly oxygenated blood and a highly efficient respiratory system, a marine could probably last a couple of hours on the small amount of oxygen in the Tescoes bag you've put over his head. He is meant to be able to survive briefly in a vacuum even out of his armour, after all.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Khorne's Fist said:


> He is meant to be able to survive briefly in a vacuum even out of his armour, after all.


For those wondering, briefly constitutes for about 20-23 minutes.


And really? Someone decided to bring Chuck Norris in? Those 'jokes' are so overrated even he hates many of them.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Making them choke on their tongue and unable to draw in oxygen, even with the most efficient respiratory system will either kill them, or damage their brain enough to leave the veggie.

Also, kicking him off a very tall building/precipice.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Making them choke on their tongue and unable to draw in oxygen, even with the most efficient respiratory system will either kill them, or damage their brain enough to leave the veggie.
> 
> Also, kicking him off a very tall building/precipice.


Assuming your strong enough to do it, which I highly doubt even for the most powerful humans. As stated before, an asperant punched a marine in the chest only to receive a broke hand and a smirk from the marine.

Marines chests are protected by the black carapace and a fused, ultra-dense rib cage.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Assuming your strong enough to do it, which I highly doubt even for the most powerful humans. As stated before, an asperant punched a marine in the chest only to receive a broke hand and a smirk from the marine.
> 
> Marines chests are protected by the black carapace and a fused, ultra-dense rib cage.


They're none resistant, just tip them off the cliff. Why would you try to punch them off?


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> They're none resistant, just tip them off the cliff. Why would you try to punch them off?


"HEY! Look behind you, it's a C-C-C-CHAOS SPACE MARINE!"

*Push*!

I don't know why, but I keep thinking of a somewhat famous guy dying of internal bleeding after he showcased his rock hard abs by challenging people to punch him, once, in the stomach. One person accepted the challenge, but struck before the guy had time to harden his muscles. I can't remember who it was... I just remember it was a stupid way to die.

So we know a single strike can kill a defenseless, passive human. An Astartes, though? Nope. Too many things like the black carapace and redundant organs getting in the way, and the whole "poke through his eye into his brain" tactic wouldn't work, unless you had a perfect jump and pinpoint accuracy with your finger. Even then, you'd blind the Marine; you wouldn't get into his skull. You'd have an eyeball shishkabob at best. The Marine would then proceed to rip your head off, because he doesn't need two eyes for that. Plus, he'd get a cool augmetic afterwards and be like, "Yeah, I was fighting this Carnifex and the bugger got my eye before I ripped it limb from limb. This one's way better, though."


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> They're none resistant, just tip them off the cliff. Why would you try to punch them off?


Smart ass. :laugh:

I was obviously referring to Vaz's throat, uppercut, throat, sternum method. 

Although it would be fairly badass to punch him off the cliff. Although, since the op never said that the marine had decided to stand precariously close to a cliff, I don't see falling off one any time soon.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> They're none resistant, just tip them off the cliff. Why would you try to punch them off?


Good luck trying to shift a several hundred pound mass. Just because the marine isn't resisting your attacks doesn't mean he's flopping around like a piece of wet string. You're trying to unbalance a individual who is taller, heavier and wider than you. Shoving isn't gonna do anything and getting the leverage required to topple them is gonna require a very secure ladder and some serious muscle.

At the end of the day being a martial artist isn't gonna help you much against a marine. The primary reason for this is that martial arts are designed to be used against humans. The weak-points only apply to people and the technigues are generally only usable against someone human sized. It comes down to whether the marines gonna be willing to let you stomp repeatedly on his throat and whether or not you can outrun him (which is a no) in the twentish minutes he's still alive afterwards.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Thump! Bang! Crash! 
"Stop!"
"Why?"
"It's my turn"
"Gulp!"


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## KukLarz (Mar 13, 2011)

Why not shove your hand up his ass and destroy him from the inside? Or why not rip his dick of and go that way?


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

KukLarz said:


> Why not shove your hand up his ass and destroy him from the inside? Or why not rip his dick of and go that way?


... Ok? ´


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## KukLarz (Mar 13, 2011)

Doelago said:


> ... Ok? ´


What? Everyone seem to think that only through the eye a marine can be hurt (unarmed)


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Davidicus 40k said:


> I don't know why, but I keep thinking of a somewhat famous guy dying of internal bleeding after he showcased his rock hard abs by challenging people to punch him, once, in the stomach. One person accepted the challenge, but struck before the guy had time to harden his muscles. I can't remember who it was... I just remember it was a stupid way to die.


Harry Houdini, poor fucker.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

KukLarz said:


> What? Everyone seem to think that only through the eye a marine can be hurt (unarmed)


yes, but your making the assumption that he even has any reproductive organs.... I think for a giant space warrior who's life is battle would hardly find any use for it and pleasuring one's self is against the Marines code of honor or something, So it would be logical to assume he has no genitals and more likely cut off or removed during initiation because it could be also seen as a potential weakness with all the nerves down there exposed.:shok:


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

NiceGuyEddy said:


> Harry Houdini, poor fucker.


Hah, I was thinking Louis Braille for some reason. Thanks, I couldn't remember and it was driving me crazy.


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

Khorne's Fist said:


> Probably not. With highly oxygenated blood and a highly efficient respiratory system, a marine could probably last a couple of hours on the small amount of oxygen in the Tescoes bag you've put over his head. He is meant to be able to survive briefly in a vacuum even out of his armour, after all.


Just suffocate him for a couple of hours then.....and I'd use a games workshop bag for ironic effect.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Varakir said:


> Just suffocate him for a couple of hours then.....and I'd use a games workshop bag for ironic effect.


No tools! That was one of the stipulations. You'd think with a marine's thick corded neck he could simply flex the muscles around his throat to prevent someone from choking him, yes?


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

What about a Chinese burn, they hurt.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Tickle the fucker.

Tickle him until he least expects your longjohn through his eye socket.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I am still a fan of the jump on his head and neck till something goes Cr_A_Ck.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

KukLarz said:


> What? Everyone seem to think that only through the eye a marine can be hurt (unarmed)


Ye, but c`mon... If I was asked to kill and unarmed Astarte with my bare hands, then the last thing I would do is to start digging his ass.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Doelago said:


> Ye, but c`mon... If I was asked to kill and unarmed Astarte with my bare hands, then the last thing I would do is to start digging his ass.


Well, according to him, if that isn't an option what you should do is grab his cock with both hands and yank...... yeah.:shok:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

C'Tan Chimera said:


> Tickle the fucker.
> 
> Tickle him until he least expects your longjohn through his eye socket.


I nearly wet myself. Good god, that made my morning.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Well, according to him, if that isn't an option what you should do is grab his cock with both hands and yank...... yeah.:shok:


Well, you do it, and I just... Spill a lot of random chemicals into his mouth. Fuck martial arts and all, bring in those barrels. :crazy:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Doelago said:


> Well, you do it, and I just... Spill a lot of random chemicals into his mouth. Fuck martial arts and all, bring in those barrels. :crazy:


Wait, what? He'll grab the cock, and then you'll force feed him the "chemicals"... That's wrong. Severely.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Wait, what? He'll grab the cock, and then you'll force feed him the "chemicals"... That's wrong. Severely.


My expression explains everything: :crazy:


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

hailene said:


> No tools! That was one of the stipulations. You'd think with a marine's thick corded neck he could simply flex the muscles around his throat to prevent someone from choking him, yes?


Pinch his nose and cover his mouth? Or can they breathe through their ears now?


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## Ashkore08 (Feb 12, 2011)

Short version? No.
Long Version? Hell no.

a Martial artist, no matter how talented, mighty or whatever could even cause an astartes to itch. But, i admit im a SM Fanboy xD

putting that aside, ive read somewhere an astartes is somewhere between 3 and 4 metres tall. And since authority equals size, more famous astartes could easily top at around 5. i haven't seen a martial artist jump up that high un-aided. and martial artists have too much honor to (try) and choke him to death, or poke his eyes out.

so... no.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

They are about 7-8 feet tall..... Not 9-13.


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## Ashkore08 (Feb 12, 2011)

say what? I always thought they would be... taller. I mean, every fluff ive read so far have depicted them as taller than normal humans. How can they be so... short?
I mean, astartes are recruited from mostly feral worlds where only the biggest and strongest survive, amiryt?
And when undergoing the gene implantation process stuffs, the implants cause them to grow even bigger.

so how can they only come up at 7 or 8 feet tall? Is the galaxy topping out at 5 feet feral people nowadays?


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Unless you live in a place I haven't heard of where all the people are 9 feet tall then 7-8 feet is still pretty tall, I certainly wouldn't want to run into one and I'm 6'4".


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> Unless you live in a place I haven't heard of where all the people are 9 feet tall then 7-8 feet is still pretty tall, I certainly wouldn't want to run into one and I'm 6'4".


I agree.

I'm 6' and my uncle is 6' 7". He's not exactly 'ripped', but he's a fairly filled out muscular chap, and his size is quite intimidating. 

Add another foot to that and throw in a shit load more muscle i'd imagine it'd be a damn site more so.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Ashkore08 said:


> say what? I always thought they would be... taller. I mean, every fluff ive read so far have depicted them as taller than normal humans. How can they be so... short?
> I mean, astartes are recruited from mostly feral worlds where only the biggest and strongest survive, amiryt?
> And when undergoing the gene implantation process stuffs, the implants cause them to grow even bigger.
> 
> so how can they only come up at 7 or 8 feet tall? Is the galaxy topping out at 5 feet feral people nowadays?


Being 7.5ft tall would still mean a Space Marine was head and shoulders taller than about 90% (at least) of the world's current population.

The implants do cause them to be bigger, but I don't know why you think Space Marines grow to the size of Dreadnoughts, nor why you think that they act like Orks wherein the most powerful are the biggest.


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

Ashkore08 said:


> so how can they only come up at 7 or 8 feet tall? Is the galaxy topping out at 5 feet feral people nowadays?


Well if they're all descended from pygmies... yes


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

An Astartes head is considerably larger than a normal humans, so even if you did manage to stick your finger through his eye you would only be poking a bit of brain, and could have to get past muscle first, which is spongy before it tears. And Space marine muscle density is far higher than ours, so who said we could be able to even get to the brain anyway. 

I mean I just finished Dead Sky, Black Sun. And at the end Honsu gets shot in the face with a bolt gun, blowing out half his face and his eye. It hurts for a bit and he has brief memory loss, looses his eye, but apart from that he's fine and just wonders off. I highly doubt poking a marine in the eye could kill him.


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> Being 7.5ft tall would still mean a Space Marine was head and shoulders taller than about 90% (at least) of the world's current population.


I think your really overestimating the average world hight. 7.5ft tall would put a marine in the top .01% of the population if not rarer than that. The only people that tall are because of developing brain tumours that affect there pituitary gland. 

The average fully grown hight is like 5ft 6, baring in mind you have to take china into account. I lived there for a year, there all tiny. Sorry I'm rambling, I actually worked for the statistics offices over there.


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## piotrasdabadman91 (Nov 7, 2009)

Some of those legendary martial arts masters who combine physcial strength with chi power etc. could probably cause a lot of damage. This is obviously all speculation but if we assume both such masters and SM existed then we might as well asume five fingered death punches are real etc. And a big kick or flying knee to the neck wouldnt be too shabby either.


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