# Black Templar Librarians



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

I thought this alteration of lore would interest Black Templar fans, either as a good thing or a bad thing i'm not sure.

This text is from the section on Abhor the Witch!



SM Codex said:


> Outsiders mistakenly interpret the lack of Librarians within the ranks of the Black Templars Chapter, and the fury with which its battle-brothers slay Chaos Sorcerers, as an intolerance of all psykers. This could hardly be further from the truth, for the Black Templars hold special reverence for Astropaths, seeing them as holy disciples who have actually communed with the Emperor. Navigators are similarly honoured, for their psychic blessing allows them to see the divine light of the Astronomican and guide the Black Templars through the Warp to deliver righteous retribution against the Emperor’s enemies.


And finally this text explaining exactly why the Black Templars have no Librarians.



SM Codex said:


> It is uncertain how, or when, the Black Templars ceased to field Librarians, for with their disappearance, much of the Chapter’s history was also lost. Outsiders suggest that, as the Chapter came to worship the Emperor as a god, they took his decree at the Edict of Nikaea to disband their Librarius divisions as holy law. Others whisper that the Black Templars’ gene-seed has somehow deteriorated, or that their Librarians were slain during a great war in the Chapter’s history. Some scholars point to the Black Templars’ final battle to end the Catelexis Heresy of M34, and the apocalyptic psychic death-screams that tore through the Warp after the slaying of the Cacodominus, as another possible explanation. Whatever the truth, the Black Templars have come to accept the loss of their Librarians as part of the Emperor’s divine plan. If the Emperor decides to once again bless the Black Templars with Librarians, they will embrace it, but until that day, they will wage battle without these powerful warriors at their side.


So now it's not that the Black Templars hate all psykers equally, it's that they cannot field Librarians due to an unknown reason. Gene-seed degeneration?? Perhaps caused by the Cacodominus or that all of their Librarians were killed and none remain alive to train new psyker recruits. Or a possibility that it is still a willing choice on their part and that they do it because they believe the Emperor ordered it. An interesting change and one that I like because it makes the Black Templars seem less willfully foolish, despising psykers while at the same time lionizing the Emperor who was one. This way it may not be their choice, or they may view it as a holy command while still recognizing that the Emperor was a psyker and that they are critical to the Imperium's continued existence.

Thoughts?


LotN


----------



## Brother Dextus (Jan 30, 2013)

As a BT player, I will be ignoring this part of the codex and reverting back to my usual 'hatred of witches because the Emperor decreed it at Nikea'. Whether they be astropaths, navigators or other 'sanctioned' psykers, they will still be shackled and confined to their quarters if they want to be in my crusade army!


----------



## Karthak (Jul 25, 2010)

Black Templars worshipping the Emperor as a god? In the recent novella Blood and Fire, didn't Reclusiarch Grimaldus explicitly state that the Templars didn't see the Emperor as a god?


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Haven't read it, so can't comment on that. But the Templars have always viewed the Emperor as a god.


----------



## Ddraig Cymry (Dec 30, 2012)

Karthak said:


> Black Templars worshipping the Emperor as a god? In the recent novella Blood and Fire, didn't Reclusiarch Grimaldus explicitly state that the Templars didn't see the Emperor as a god?


Space Marines have a different relationship to The Emperor thatn normal people do. To mortals, he basically is a god, he was huge, made soldiers who could pacify entire systems in hours, and had magical (psyker) powers. To Space Marines, he was more of general/king, so it's common for Space Marines to not revere him as a 'god' but rather something similar to ancestor/spirit worship. I'm pretty sure that's about right, it's been forever since I've read on the gold old Emprah.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Ddraig Cymry said:


> Space Marines have a different relationship to The Emperor thatn normal people do. To mortals, he basically is a god, he was huge, made soldiers who could pacify entire systems in hours, and had magical (psyker) powers. To Space Marines, he was more of general/king, so it's common for Space Marines to not revere him as a 'god' but rather something similar to ancestor/spirit worship. I'm pretty sure that's about right, it's been forever since I've read on the gold old Emprah.


Most Astartes don't view him as a God, just the most powerful man to have ever existed, but a man nonetheless. Some chapters however, do view him as a God, the Templars being the most significant of them I'd say.


----------



## Protoss119 (Aug 8, 2010)

The more things change, the more things stay the same. My take on this development is that the Black Templars do not blindly hate all Psykers anymore, but this does not prevent them from seeing the Librarians of other chapters and Sanctioned Psykers and the like as dangerous witches and wielders of sorcerous powers. So this new development could still fit with the Black Templars' traditional hatred of the witch.


----------



## iamtheeviltwin (Nov 12, 2012)

Karthak said:


> Black Templars worshipping the Emperor as a god? In the recent novella Blood and Fire, didn't Reclusiarch Grimaldus explicitly state that the Templars didn't see the Emperor as a god?


Probably another case of Black Library and the Codex writers not syncing. Here is the passage from the new Space Marine codex:



> Unlike other Chapters, who venerate the Emperor as their creator and the rightful ruler of the Imperium, the Black Templars believe him to be a divinity to whom they offer worship. All Space Marines are renowned for their fervent dedication, but the extremity of the Black Templars’ faith can only be described as fanatical. It is unknown when in the Chapter’s history the belief of the Emperor’s divinity began to take root or how such ardent faith could so totally grip the warriors of the Chapter. All that is known for sure is that for several millennia, the Black Templars have offered prayers and service to the Master of Mankind as a god and they see themselves as his chosen warriors, enforcing his divine will in a dark and troubled galaxy with the edge of a sword.
> 
> Games Workshop Ltd. Codex: Space Marines (Kindle Locations 2503-2508).


----------



## Demon of Humanity (Aug 19, 2013)

My guess for the black templar is they don't hate psykers for being psykers they just can't trust anyone other than the emperor with that kind of power.

The emperor wields it with wisdom. But other psykers get big heads and do nasty shit wouldn't surprise me if some black templars were victims of crazed delusions of grandeur psykers before they became astartes


----------



## Karthak (Jul 25, 2010)

iamtheeviltwin said:


> Probably another case of Black Library and the Codex writers not syncing. Here is the passage from the new Space Marine codex:


Indeed, I'd say it's a case of not syncing. Here's the text from Blood and Fire:

_"The Lions nodded. I wondered how true that was, across the galaxy. The Emperor was immortal and mighty beyond reckoning. But he was no god. Mankind – in its blessed ignorance – worshipped him as one. Yet false gods cannot answer prayers. How tempting it must seem to those sects and societies far from Terra to seek other answers when pleading with the Emperor brings only silence."_

The speaker is Grimaldus, and he is one of the highest ranking Chaplains in the Chapter.


----------



## Veteran Sergeant (May 17, 2012)

iamtheeviltwin said:


> Probably another case of Black Library and the Codex writers not syncing.


The fluff has just changed, completely. 

The Black Templars had never been depicted as worshiping the Emperor in the past. They were just religious _themed_.

At some point, somebody decided to take that theme to the next level. Really, it's just 40K being dumbed down a bit because the subtleties were a bit too much for some people.

Like all the hooplah about the Sisters and Black Templars not being Battle Brothers on the ally chart, when by the old fluff, it was like saying "Well, why weren't the Protestants and Catholics always Battle Brothers?"


----------



## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

I for one will continue to abhor the witch!, DESTROY THE WITCH!

That paragraph is the only thing I hate about the fluff section on BT, it implies the Eternal Crusaders are lacking in power or ability because they dont have psykers, its total bullshit

ABHOR THE WITCH, DESTROY THE WITCH!

_Smite now the scions of the Witch!
Grant us the strength to pierce their unclean flesh!
To cover their fields with the pale form of the blasphemous dead!
To drown the thunder of guns with the shriek of their dying!
To lay waste to their citadels with hurricanes of fire!
To wring the hearts of their kin with unavailing grief!
To send them into the waste of their desolate land in rags and hunger, broken in spirit, worn with travail and begging
for the refuge of the grave.
We ask it, in the spirit of wrath, O Master of Mankind!_​


----------



## Brother Dextus (Jan 30, 2013)

redmapa said:


> I for one will continue to abhor the witch!, DESTROY THE WITCH!
> 
> That paragraph is the only thing I hate about the fluff section on BT, it implies the Eternal Crusaders are lacking in power or ability because they dont have psykers, its total bullshit
> 
> ...




Well said, sir!


----------



## Wookiepelt (Jan 29, 2013)

So... this (although not GK or 40K related, so off-topic... but...) would definitely qualify for a bit of smiting? :grin:

http://gizmodo.com/watch-this-girl-with-telekinetic-powers-freak-out-coffe-1442158546

Anyhow, this is definitely going to be interesting for us as we are about to start our Black Templar Allied Force for Wookie's Wolfies and I always wondered how the presence of Rune Priests would affect this combination, considering that they are suppose to be battle-brothers!


----------



## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Here's what I don't get: why are the Black Templars in Codex: Space Marines to begin with?

They are by far one of the *least* Codex Chapters out there. You might as well have the _Space Wolves_ included in C:SM if you're going to have the Templars.


----------



## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> Here's what I don't get: why are the Black Templars in Codex: Space Marines to begin with?
> 
> They are by far one of the *least* Codex Chapters out there. You might as well have the _Space Wolves_ included in C:SM if you're going to have the Templars.


Their GW and BL sales aren't high enough to merit their own codex, but high enough they need to be shown love somewhere?


----------



## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

Phoebus said:


> Here's what I don't get: why are the Black Templars in Codex: Space Marines to begin with?
> 
> They are by far one of the *least* Codex Chapters out there. You might as well have the _Space Wolves_ included in C:SM if you're going to have the Templars.


GW probably couldnt handle a new line of plastics for another faction so they had to sacrifice one and BT and SoB are the ones that have the least ammount of plastics to call their own so they the one that's easier to put in another codex, that's what I think

But I'll keep hoping for a nice Codex: Armaggeddon 2nd edition, with updated righteous zeal and EC vows and who knows, maybe new units


----------



## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Phoebus said:


> Here's what I don't get: why are the Black Templars in Codex: Space Marines to begin with?
> 
> They are by far one of the *least* Codex Chapters out there. You might as well have the _Space Wolves_ included in C:SM if you're going to have the Templars.


Because whilst they may be one of the least Codex chapters they are the easiest of the secondary space marine armies to put into the main codex. 

In terms of units the only real unique thing the Templars still have is the emperor's champion and crusader squads (land raider crusaders were already in the basic codex and sword brethren are normal veterans by a different name). Both of those (and two other Black Templars special characters) are in the new codex. Everything a Templar army could do in the old 4th ed codex it can still do, bar some very slight exceptions (like a lack of vows) but in return it got so many more new units. 

With the special characters, traits and special rules available in the Space Marine codex you can easily create a Black Templars army that feels just like the one you had before. 

With the other chapters (blood angels, dark angels, space wolves) it's a lot harder to fold them into the main codex. They've got larger fanbases, longer histories and more unique units and rules than the templars. Most of the Templar's differences are more fluff based than on the tabletop.


----------



## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

Rems said:


> Because whilst they may be one of the least Codex chapters they are the easiest of the secondary space marine armies to put into the main codex.
> 
> In terms of units the only real unique thing the Templars still have is the emperor's champion and crusader squads (land raider crusaders were already in the basic codex and sword brethren are normal veterans by a different name). Both of those (and two other Black Templars special characters) are in the new codex. Everything a Templar army could do in the old 4th ed codex it can still do, bar some very slight exceptions (like a lack of vows) but in return it got so many more new units.
> 
> ...


But then that brings the question; Why didnt GW develop the BT like the rest of the 4th ed codices? Because all 4th ed codices were in a similar position as the BT, it wasnt until 5th when they got more unique units


----------



## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

redmapa said:


> But then that brings the question; Why didnt GW develop the BT like the rest of the 4th ed codices? Because all 4th ed codices were in a similar position as the BT, it wasnt until 5th when they got more unique units


Even back in 4th the other varients still had more unique units. 

The Blood Angels had Honour Guard, Jump Pack Veterans, The Baal Predator, Sanguinary Priests, Death Company and Furosio and Death Company Dreadnoughts. Space Wolves had an entire codex of unique units. The Dark Angels had the least but had the two biggies of Ravenwing and Deathwing. They also had a history back from the origins of the game, unlike templars. 

Templars even in 4th only really had crusader squads and the emperor's champion to set them apart. Which they've retained. They really were the best to integrate in the main codex being the youngest, with the smallest fanbase and least number of unique units and models. 

I assume they weren't developed due to a combination of factors such as sales, lack of good ideas to take the army, the desire to streamline the marine codecies, who knows, but there would have been good reasons. 

I'd be surprised though if there wasn't a Templars supplement in the future.


----------



## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I'll admit, I originally intended my post to be more of a rhetorical question, but you guys raised business-end points that I hadn't considered - thanks!


----------



## Stornkin (Oct 21, 2013)

I always thought it was because of something that happened in the past. They have gone on many crusades where they fought the xeno's. Perhaps some psyker they were fighting caused some problems. It could even go back as far as Sigmund when the chapter was founded and he decided not to allow them on the field after what the heretics did.


----------



## unixknight (Jul 26, 2010)

Frankly, I think the new version of the fluff makes a lot more sense. For the Templars to universally hate psykers was inconsistent with the fact that they needed astropaths and navigators. The famous Templar absolutism seemed to be making an odd exception there. Also, it stated they made an exception for the Grey Knights even though the latest GK Codex made it very clear that they went to extremes to keep their existence secret, even to the point of mind-wiping Astartes who knew of them. (And please, no Matt Ward hate replies to that. Like it or not, it's canon now and it needed to be dealt with.)

With 6th edition making it possible to mix Codexes (codices?) in a single list, the Templars were at a severe disadvantage by uniquely having no option for taking Librarians with no alternative benefit to balance it. This eliminates that problem and I'm fine with it.

Tactical inflexibility is not an advantage, yet we sort of told ourselves that Templar strength came from that sort of attitude. 

Let's be honest and talk about the elephant in the living room. For several years I've been a BT player and participated in BT forums, talked BT tactics and generally was one of those BT fans who embraced the fluff because it was ours, and approached a crappy codex with as positive an attitude as we could muster. Yes, it was crappy, It was horrible. It was a sloppy cut & paste job from the 4th Edition Codex Space Marines but with fewer options. We had exactly one troop choice, no Librarians and as the editions evolved the only things we had going for us were the vows and a few unique loadout options. It wasn't enough. 

Creative and daring BT players could make a serviceable list and we all took on the "can do" attitude of getting wins with a substandard codex as a mark of skill and honor, but on some level we all felt neglected and resented it. (Rightly so.) But the unpleasant reality is that while BT fans were zealous and dedicated, we were not in sufficiently large numbers to merit more attention from GW marketing. Sorry, but that's how it is. 

I didn't want to have the BTs get rolled into C:SM but I'm satisfied with the result. I think the absolute hatred of all psykers painted us into a corner rules-wise that has now been fixed satisfactorily. Is it a retcon? Yes. A big one if you're a Templar, insignificant if you're anyone else. Has GW retconned before? Hell yeah. Leman Russ used to be an Imperial Guardsman. The Sisters of Battle used to be all about hunting down and destroying renegade Space Marine chapters. There used to be Squats. Space Marines used to have access to vortex grenades. There used to be Spartan tanks as dedicated transports for Terminators. The game changes. The fluff changes. It evolves. I think it's been getting better.

Yes, I'll be fielding a Blood Ravens Librarian as part of a detachment to my Black Templars. I'll be winning games, and I'll be ignoring haters who tell me I'm somehow "un-Templar" for making that choice. I don't play this game to satisfy them.

As for the worship of the Emperor as a god... It used to be that ALL Space Marines considered the Emperor a god. The fluff has been moving away from that, especially with the Horus Heresy novels. The Templars' attitude toward the Emperor was CLEARLY one of worship in the 4th Edition Codex with "holy" this and "blessed " that and so on. That didn't make them all that unique though. Just look at some older novels in which Space Marines outright pray to the Emperor. The boltgun was described in an older Space Marine source as the "holy bolter" and vehicles weren't just vehicles, they were regarded as living things with a spirit, not just by the Mechanicum but by the Marines as well. 

All of that fluff has been changing, and that's just how it is.

That said, if you want to play your Templars a certain way, where they avoid witches or don't pray to the Emperor or whatever, then more power to you. Your army, play it how you like. Your fluff is your fluff. I have -zero- criticism against you. I do however, take exception to people who want to criticize others' choices, as if their own fluff interpretation were the only one. The galaxy of the 41st Millennium is big enough for all of us.


----------



## Protoss119 (Aug 8, 2010)

unixknight said:


> Yes, I'll be fielding a Blood Ravens Librarian as part of a detachment to my Black Templars. I'll be winning games, and I'll be ignoring haters who tell me I'm somehow "un-Templar" for making that choice. I don't play this game to satisfy them.


I might be less concerned about "un-Templar-ness" and more concerned about the possibility of Blood Ravens stealing-- erm, "being gifted" some artifacts mid-battle...


----------



## unixknight (Jul 26, 2010)

Protoss119 said:


> I might be less concerned about "un-Templar-ness" and more concerned about the possibility of Blood Ravens stealing-- erm, "being gifted" some artifacts mid-battle...


Touche' :wink:


----------

