# Books you want to see written



## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

What books would everyone like to see written or can't wait for (if they've been announced?

Personally I would like to see more Raven Guard and Alpha Legion books.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

More AL books and some about Angron and Mortarion


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

a book on the destruction of every single space marine in the entire universe, multi universes, parallel universes, in the eye, out of the eye, just every single last one just dies for no reason at all.

I'd love that book


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## Legio Custode (May 20, 2009)

I personally would love to see a book about Lorgar and the Word bearers before the Emperor had his words with his son, and what was said to affect Lorgar so much to want to switch sides.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Legio Custode said:


> I personally would love to see a book about Lorgar and the Word bearers before the Emperor had his words with his son, and what was said to affect Lorgar so much to want to switch sides.


Probably going to be covered in the upcoming HH novel _The First Heretic_.

Aside from that there is a thread identical to this in the Black Library section:

HERE.


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## cafel (Dec 21, 2008)

Really the book or story I would love to see, but never will regards a throw away piece of fluff in the 5th edition handbook. The Blade Infinity is said to have a warp trip of 20,000 years, from around 13,000 to 33,000. That bit has always just begged for some kind of expansion.

I'm also anxiously awaiting Dan Abnett's third Eisnhorn/Ravenor trilogy.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

I'd like some unification wars stories, some more grey knight stories, and the concluding half to defenders of ulthuan


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## dobbins (Sep 19, 2009)

More about Honsou, but not a story tied to that dick Uriel Ventris or whatever his name is.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Barnster said:


> I'd like some unification wars stories, some more grey knight stories, and the concluding half to defenders of ulthuan


in my opinion ben counter butchered the image of the Grey knights in his novels.

*Sisters of battle* were able to kill some of them in hand to hand combat, I only finished the omnibus because I paid money for the book.

There were other things he did to piss me off but thankfully they escape my memory as of now.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Malus Darkblade said:


> in my opinion ben counter butchered the image of the Grey knights in his novels.
> 
> *Sisters of battle* were able to kill some of them in hand to hand combat, I only finished the omnibus because I paid money for the book.
> 
> There were other things he did to piss me off but thankfully they escape my memory as of now.


Ben Counter`s _Grey Knights Trilogy_ was brilliant. The level of description, depth to characters and plots, and action scenes was superb. I loved the hunt for Gargatuloth in _Grey Knights_, the beautifully deep descriptions of the Dark Mechanicus world Chaeronia and the Khornate-worshipping world of Drakaasi in _Dark Adeptus/Hammer of Daemons_.

*However!* He _did_ a poor - in my opinion - representation of the Grey Knights themselves. I got the feeling, from his works alone, that the Grey Knights _may_ have been far better equipped, mentally conditioned and physically able than ordinary humans, or Guardsmen. But he did nothing, in turn, to seperate them from average Space Marines.

Anyone else feel that? but regardless, compared to the utter drivel ive just finished: Imperial Guard I Omnibus (Although _Rebel Winter_ is good) You will appreciated just how good the Trilogy is.:laugh:

Besides. During the conflict between the Sisters of the Order of the Bloody Rose, and the Grey Knights under Alaric, the Sisters are butchered, even the Seraphim take a battering, only taking the odd knight down to many losses themselves.


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## Emporers Champion (Mar 19, 2009)

The grey knights trilogy is AWESOME!!! Ben Counter is an great author. Wish he would do a black templars one.


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## Emporers Champion (Mar 19, 2009)

Or more Grey kinghts!!!


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## CaptainLoken (May 13, 2009)

The second sundering of the emperium, can't remember what it was called but when the high lords were nearly duking it out with each other and the Imperium was nearly split in two again.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

CaptainLoken said:


> The second sundering of the emperium, can't remember what it was called but when the high lords were nearly duking it out with each other and the Imperium was nearly split in two again.


I - in my rather lowly, yet growing wisdom - believe that was named _The Age of Apostasy_

However, thou shall have to consult with thou being that is thine Oracle of CoTE for a true answer.:victory:


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

bobss said:


> Ben Counter`s _Grey Knights Trilogy_ was brilliant. The level of description, depth to characters and plots, and action scenes was superb. I loved the hunt for Gargatuloth in _Grey Knights_, the beautifully deep descriptions of the Dark Mechanicus world Chaeronia and the Khornate-worshipping world of Drakaasi in _Dark Adeptus/Hammer of Daemons_.
> 
> *However!* He _did_ a poor - in my opinion - representation of the Grey Knights themselves. I got the feeling, from his works alone, that the Grey Knights _may_ have been far better equipped, mentally conditioned and physically able than ordinary humans, or Guardsmen. But he did nothing, in turn, to seperate them from average Space Marines.
> 
> ...


Sorry but the elite of the elite of Space Marines should not have lost a *single *member to the lowly order of the Sisters of Battle, merely over zealous women in power armor much weaker than that of Astartes power armor, especially in hand to hand/close-up combat.

That's like saying one of Angron's World Eaters would lose to a SoB in a fist-fight.

Also I didn't like his portrayal of the GK's outside of combat but it's been a while since I read that junk so I can't recall any specifics. And yeah he didn't do much to separate them from ordinary SMs


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## CaptainLoken (May 13, 2009)

> - in my rather lowly, yet growing wisdom - believe that was named The Age of Apostasy


yeah thats the one :biggrin:


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

There's also the Plague of Unbelief which occurred directly after the Age of Apostasy.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

I thought the first of the gk novels was fantastic the second so so and the third was pretty poor. You had to have the characters in danger or you simply don't care about the risk, SoBs have bolters which can damage astartes pattern armour, and they did kill a tonne of sisters for every gk killed. I thought they did a fantastic job of showing the more scholarly nature of the gks as well as the martial prowess. GKs are not meant to be incredible compared to other sm's they have better equipment but their main strength is their mental strength and resistance to corruption.


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

I'd also like to see some Great Crusade stories. Ones with the Emperor fighting alongside the Primarchs.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Barnster said:


> . GKs are not meant to be incredible compared to other sm's they have better equipment but their main strength is their mental strength and resistance to corruption.


Dude no, normal SM's go through like let's say 20 training trials whereas the GK's undergo like 100, the ratio is huge.

This is how it goes in terms of strength:

Emperor
Primarch/Leader of Custodes
Custodes
Grey Knights
Space Marines
Puppy
Sisters of Battle


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Dude no, normal SM's go through like let's say 20 training trials whereas the GK's undergo like 100, the ratio is huge.
> 
> This is how it goes in terms of strength:
> 
> ...


In fact its even plausable that the Grey Knights rank above the Custodes. They are far superior to 'normal' Astartes, They go through training (mental and physical) that would kill off most Astartes, and are equipped with the finest weaponary the Imperium can offer.

Thankfully for the Imperium's enemies, the forces of Mankind can only muster a tiny number of these soliders.

On the topic of Ben Counter, I think generally he has a reputation for misrepresenting characters. Take _Battle for the Abyss_ for example, his portrayal of the Word Bearers makes me angry everytime I think about it. Quite simply he is a black & white/cliche author in my opinion, good guys win and its obviously going to be so from the very beginning.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> In fact its even plausable that the Grey Knights rank above the Custodes. They are far superior to 'normal' Astartes, They go through training (mental and physical) that would kill off most Astartes, and are equipped with the finest weaponary the Imperium can offer.
> 
> Thankfully for the Imperium's enemies, the forces of Mankind can only muster a tiny number of these soliders.
> 
> On the topic of Ben Counter, I think generally he has a reputation for misrepresenting characters. Take _Battle for the Abyss_ for example, his portrayal of the Word Bearers makes me angry everytime I think about it. Quite simply he is a black & white/cliche author in my opinion, good guys win and its obviously going to be so from the very beginning.


The guys writing up the codexes and the mini stories inside should be doing the novels.

I wasn't too happy with mcneils portrayal of the luna wolves the most efficient of the legions, making them all lovey dovey and shit towards one another, playful wrestling with each other, and making them seem like imperial guardsmen made me want to puke.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> The guys writing up the codexes and the mini stories inside should be doing the novels.
> 
> I wasn't too happy with mcneils portrayal of the luna wolves the most efficient of the legions, making them all lovey dovey and shit towards one another, playful wrestling with each other, and making them seem like imperial guardsmen made me want to puke.


They are space marines yes but they are still humans and this is how people in groups such as this act. Anyone who has ever been a member of a tight nit team would identify with them. I know during practices we had fun, we didn’t treat every moment like it were an actual game and I am damn sure a military unit would do the same. If they are constantly on edge they wouldn’t be able to perform as well as a group that takes time to relax between actions.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Malus Darkblade said:


> The guys writing up the codexes and the mini stories inside should be doing the novels.
> 
> I wasn't too happy with mcneils portrayal of the luna wolves the most efficient of the legions, making them all lovey dovey and shit towards one another, playful wrestling with each other, and making them seem like imperial guardsmen made me want to puke.


You do know that before McNeill became a full time author he was one of the game developers helping to write the codexes.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> They are space marines yes but they are still humans and this is how people in groups such as this act. Anyone who has ever been a member of a tight nit team would identify with them. I know during practices we had fun, we didn’t treat every moment like it were an actual game and I am damn sure a military unit would do the same. If they are constantly on edge they wouldn’t be able to perform as well as a group that takes time to relax between actions.



Yes that type of sailor cursing under-fire bond exists between Gaunts Ghosts or other IG units but not amongst Astartes.

Especially post-heresy Astartes, they're all distant and solemn and some authors don't depict the SMs as super strong adolescents that crack lame ass jokes in the heat of battle or other juvenile things.

We should not see similarities between the SMs and regular human armies. Almost all traces of the Astartes humanity is removed and again we see this more with post-heresy SMs and other novels where they dont give a shit about saving civilians or protecting journalists from getting assassinated for writing poetry depicting SM's as murderers lol what was that shit.

We do see them bond but in more mature and astartes like manner with other authors/novels.

And on the edge? Dude SM's don't feel like they're on the edge or get nervous, they're not designed for that.

And yes there's a difference between being cautious/wary and being on the edge/nervous.

Top of my head, take Dan abnet's Legion and look at how the AL act amongst one another or how they laugh/joke with the commander. 

It's mature and doesn't involve retarded wrestling with Horus arriving with a reporter acting all embarrassed and making them feel ashamed and straightening up like characters from dennis the menace being caught in some naughty act by their parents.



Baron Spikey said:


> You do know that before McNeill became a full time author he was one of the game developers helping to write the codexes.


Well he lost his way or he didn't write the parts I was thinking of.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Yes that type of sailor cursing under-fire bond exists between Gaunts Ghosts or other IG units but not amongst Astartes.
> 
> Especially post-heresy Astartes, they're all distant and solemn and some authors don't depict the SMs as super strong adolescents that crack lame ass jokes in the heat of battle or other juvenile things.
> 
> ...


All the legions are depicted as acting differently; no two legions behave in the same manner. Do you expect the space wolves to act in similar manner to the emperor's children? I don't. And I would think pre-heresy legions to be much less reserved than their post-heresy counterparts.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> All the legions are depicted as acting differently; no two legions behave in the same manner. Do you expect the space wolves to act in similar manner to the emperor's children? I don't. And I would think pre-heresy legions to be much less reserved than their post-heresy counterparts.


Obviously they all are different and act differently but they don't become children and goof off like off duty soldiers. I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually makes them crack crude jokes about the SOB.

I would think that yes they would be less reserved due to notwitnessing the HH but not to the extent we see in mcneil's HH: FG.


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## imntdead (Apr 21, 2008)

I can't speak for all military units; but as a soldier I can say that there was no play wrestling in my unit or that we didn't become children and goof off when we were off duty as Malus Darkblade put it. However there is a certain amount of aggression and rage that all soldiers tend to have and our Platoon would have close combat sessions where we would beat the crap out of each other sometimes. Now I can't deny that some of the guys were simply trying to let off some steam; but lets face that is the downside of the average soldier. Space marines do not have to face the issues of having a normal life or returning to one when the war is over. 

I would imagine that the Astartes would also channel their aggression through combat sessions and other sorts of training as they probably don't have off duty time. Space marines are not some high class military citizens after all they are barbaric war dogs bred for the battlefield. When you only know how to live and breath war I seriously doubt you can avoid being aggressive especially when considering that the Astartes have honor based ideals. 

:nono: there wouldn't be any play wrestling that bullshit is for pussy's not soldiers.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

imntdead said:


> :nono: there wouldn't be any play wrestling that bullshit is for pussy's not soldiers.


Exactly. they're made up super soldiers that don't need to vent and don't have post-war stress syndrome, they crave for war every moment of their lives.

They get 'stressed' when they are not on the battlefield, taking out their built-in hunger for battle on combat servitors,etc. not:

_HAHA COME HERE YOU! 

CATCH ME IF YOU CAN!

HAHAHA

*Ruffles hair* Boyish laughter_

That shit's just weak and rubbish.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I never said they had PDSD, I said that they would probably need to unwind a bit. They also aren't bloodthirsty killing machines that seek only to sate their lust for blood. You are essentially saying "HOW DARE THEY ACT HUMAN!" A space marine is a human, although a genetically enhanced human, so it isn't at all outside of the realm of possibility that they might act like it every once and a while...... especially considering the fact that they were recruited from hive gangs.


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## imntdead (Apr 21, 2008)

gen.ahab said:


> I never said they had PDSD, I said that they would probably need to unwind a bit. They also aren't bloodthirsty killing machines that seek only to sate their lust for blood. You are essentially saying "HOW DARE THEY ACT HUMAN!" A space marine is a human, although a genetically enhanced human, so it isn't at all outside of the realm of possibility that they might act like it every once and a while...... especially considering the fact that they were recruited from hive gangs.


Don't bother arguing gen.ahab the way he sees it you are destroying his vision of the ultimate soldier that does not exist. 

There would be some laughter a punch thrown every now and then; but not the childish acts that Malus Darkblade described. I believe you would find those actions amongst the scout babies; but that's pretty much it.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

It was actually a combat drill, it just devolved into two best friends acting like friends do. :laugh: But anyway, back to topic. I would love to see some more gray knights novels.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

I want more Chaos novels!! come on! Storm of Iron was awsome! there needs to be another one like that. Space wussies need to take a rest and let Chaos have the limelight every now then. GW and there pampering. makes me mad. mad enough to go and crush a black templar model with my BRB and laugh at his broken pieces.


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## anarchyfever (May 24, 2008)

I would love to see some novels of the necrons vs the eldar at the very beginning


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## son of nocturne (May 23, 2009)

I wouldnt mind seeing a Salamanders HH book as little is known about the pre heresy son of vulkan.. As for the petty in fighting read the space wolf omnibus lots of petty remarks jokes and jibes between squad members its natural human nature because if their wasnt the slight bit of human nature in them as is been argued
They would be classed as xeno by the imperium.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Chaos space marines are more manlier then the girly space marines who need to fill there spare times with more childish actions and humour. hehe. our idea of a good time is beating the crap out of each other if someone says different. or going out on a mass slaughter fest. XP


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

I want to see a book that is from the point of view of a progressive cult that is being hunted down by the Inquisition. 

I want to see a book about a planet not to dissimilar from ours that the Imperium re-establishes contact with after 3000 years of isolation. 

I want to see a book about gang wars in an underhive. 

I want to see a book with no space marines, Imperial guards men or sisters of battle. 

I want to see a book that lets me really get a feel for what it is like to LIVE in the Imperium of Man.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

GabrialSagan said:


> I want to see a book that is from the point of view of a progressive cult that is being hunted down by the Inquisition.
> 
> I want to see a book about a planet not to dissimilar from ours that the Imperium re-establishes contact with after 3000 years of isolation.
> 
> ...


I agree with you _so much!_.

I love the idea`s of a Chaos Cult as it grows, recruits and is hunted down by the Inquisition. Also, the underhive gang-wars (Possibley Annolian Tunnel Rats as a Guard novel?) I want another Titan book - Possibley Eldar Titans/Ork Stompas.:laugh:


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## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

I personally would like to see a Book on the fall of the Eldar, you know like the years leading up to the birth of Slaanesh or maybe some books on the Orkish point of view on the war of Armageddon.


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## Capt.Al'rahhem (Jan 24, 2009)

I would love to see a series of books about Lord Solar Macharius and his 7 year crusade. 1000 worlds in 7 years, that's gotta be some awesome stories to tell. I'd especially like to see a book on the Battle for Thoth and the legendary Al'rahem (of course). It could also lead into a series about the Macharian Heresy when all his conquests fell into civil wars lead by his commanders. Which then took 70 years to re-pacify.


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> In fact its even plausable that the Grey Knights rank above the Custodes. They are far superior to 'normal' Astartes, They go through training (mental and physical) that would kill off most Astartes, and are equipped with the finest weaponary the Imperium can offer.


On this subject, from the short story headhunted in heroes of the space marines book it sounds like the Exorcists seem to go through some of the similar training to the GKs. In addition it's hinted that the Exorcists have the Pariah gene as well. Anyone else noticed the same thing?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

zerachiel76 said:


> On this subject, from the short story headhunted in heroes of the space marines book it sounds like the Exorcists seem to go through some of the similar training to the GKs. In addition it's hinted that the Exorcists have the Pariah gene as well. Anyone else noticed the same thing?


An interesting chapter.

I would think they cut through all the tape by just experiencing what it feels like to be possessed and BAM they know how daemons work from an insider's perspective.

I would argue that the ones who survive would be better suited at dealing with daemons than even GK's but then again one could argue that to be possessed would leave a taint that would always remain as a stepping stone for irreversible daemonic possession by stronger daemons.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> An interesting chapter.
> 
> I would think they cut through all the tape by just experiencing what it feels like to be possessed and BAM they know how daemons work from an insider's perspective.
> 
> I would argue that the ones who survive would be better suited at dealing with daemons than even GK's but then again one could argue that to be possessed would leave a taint that would always remain as a stepping stone for irreversible daemonic possession by stronger daemons.


From what you have said this is similar, if not identical, to the illuminati process. If such is the case they would have mastered the chaos within and, as such, would be immune to and sort of temptation or taint from chaos. In fact I believe the illuminati are the only humans to be allowed access the black library at will because there is no possibility that they would ever be tempted by chaos.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Also they need permission from The Harlequins for access and even if you are immune to Chaos Taint, the black library isnt some walk in public library but The most indepth collection of Chaos study and is better for less people to see it then to have heard of it. one of the eldars most prized secrets to keep.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

XxDreMisterxX said:


> Also they need permission from The Harlequins for access and even if you are immune to Chaos Taint, the black library isnt some walk in public library but The most indepth collection of Chaos study and is better for less people to see it then to have heard of it. one of the eldars most prized secrets to keep.


Illuminati have that, it's implied if you survive the attempt. :laugh:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

XxDreMisterxX said:


> but The most indepth collection of Chaos study


Apart from the _Hidden Library_ of course, which is infinitely more valuable.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Apart from the _Hidden Library_ of course, which is infinitely more valuable.


Care to shed some info on that? I couldn't find any, I assume it's something to do with Magnus?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Care to shed some info on that? I couldn't find any, I assume it's something to do with Magnus?


Its Tzeentch's own 'Library' and where he hangs out.

Essentially it contains every single scrap of knowledge from across time, every thought of every creature since the Universe's conception.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Its Tzeentch's own 'Library' and where he hangs out.
> 
> Essentially it contains every single scrap of knowledge from across time, every thought of every creature since the Universe's conception.


I highly doubt it contains any knowledge of the _true_ future; perhaps several alternate futures, though not the correct one. My source: The Well of Knowledge (Correct title?) that Tzeentch cast Kairo`s Fateweaver into, after innumerable other Lords of Change, his thirst for ultimate knowledge insatable. It even remarks how Tzeentch could not transverse into the depths of the chasm himself for fear of what it may do to him mentally, if not physically, due to the destruction of so many of his servants and Kairo`s mutations.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

bobss said:


> I highly doubt it contains any knowledge of the _true_ future; perhaps several alternate futures, though not the correct one. My source: The Well of Knowledge (Correct title?) that Tzeentch cast Kairo`s Fateweaver into, after innumerable other Lords of Change, his thirst for ultimate knowledge insatable. It even remarks how Tzeentch could not transverse into the depths of the chasm himself for fear of what it may do to him mentally, if not physically, due to the destruction of so many of his servants and Kairo`s mutations.


Im just stating what the codex says. Remember that time as a concept (chronologically) doesn't exist in the Warp. Past, Present & Future are meaningless as all are blended into one bizarre and incomprehensable existence, So its perfectly plausable that it contains _all_ knowledge.

Also It wasn't that Tzeentch couldn't have descended into the Well of Eternity, its that he feared to.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Im just stating what the codex says. Remember that time as a concept (chronologically) doesn't exist in the Warp. Past, Present & Future are meaningless as all are blended into one bizarre and incomprehensable existence, So its perfectly plausable that it contains _all_ knowledge.
> 
> Also It wasn't that Tzeentch couldn't have descended into the Well of Eternity, its that he feared to.


Yes, Tzeentch feared the consequences of descending into the Well of Eternity, but regardless, you are right - Tzeentch`s own library, within his Maze _would_ be the most detailed, blasphemous and down-right mind-breaking. (Though what of Khorne`s/Nurgle`s destruction of Tzeentch`s realm in the WFB DoC book? :laugh


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## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> In fact its even plausable that the Grey Knights rank above the Custodes. They are far superior to 'normal' Astartes, They go through training (mental and physical) that would kill off most Astartes, and are equipped with the finest weaponary the Imperium can offer.



Um, no GK will never rank higher then Custodes, maybe in combat ability, but not in Rank... Custodes are the Emperors guard. GK cant even get into the Imperial palace without the Custodes consent, and Custodes only answer to there own supeirors, and they only answer to the Emperor.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Helvron said:


> Um, no GK will never rank higher then Custodes, maybe in combat ability, but not in Rank... Custodes are the Emperors guard. GK cant even get into the Imperial palace without the Custodes consent, and Custodes only answer to there own supeirors, and they only answer to the Emperor.


In reverse to that, I highly doubt any Custode would be allowed unhindered into the Vaults on Titan, or any Ordo Malleus institute for that matter.

I think CotE meant generic combat ability and martial prowess, ranking the Grey Knights as superior fighters by physically and mentally, for example the psycic Holocaust several brothers can unleash at once. Also, i`d rate the Grey Knight`s intellect as higher - They are knowledgable in area`s other Astartes _fear_ to delve into: daemonic law, possession and the like.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

bobss said:


> In reverse to that, I highly doubt any Custode would be allowed unhindered into the Vaults on Titan, or any Ordo Malleus institute for that matter.
> 
> I think CotE meant generic combat ability and martial prowess, ranking the Grey Knights as superior fighters by physically and mentally, for example the psycic Holocaust several brothers can unleash at once. Also, i`d rate the Grey Knight`s intellect as higher - They are knowledgable in area`s other Astartes _fear_ to delve into: daemonic law, possession and the like.


Yes, but the same can be said about the Custodians being adept politicians as well as receiving training in the art of assassination and infiltration. They both have completely different skill sets. It’s trying to compare apples to oranges. And as far as martial prowess goes I am aware of a small contingent of custodians routing a force of thousand sons substantially larger than their own and killing several of the strongest sorcerers of the legion during the fall of Prospero. I believe it is in collected visions. They are also said to be larger and stronger than an astartes. As far as standing in the imperium is concerned I would say custodians outrank gray knights.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Helvron said:


> Um, no GK will never rank higher then Custodes, maybe in combat ability, but not in Rank... Custodes are the Emperors guard. GK cant even get into the Imperial palace without the Custodes consent, and Custodes only answer to there own supeirors, and they only answer to the Emperor.


I think you should read more carefully what was actually said.



bobss said:


> In reverse to that, I highly doubt any Custode would be allowed unhindered into the Vaults on Titan, or any Ordo Malleus institute for that matter.
> 
> I think CotE meant generic combat ability and martial prowess, ranking the Grey Knights as superior fighters by physically and mentally, for example the psycic Holocaust several brothers can unleash at once. Also, i`d rate the Grey Knight`s intellect as higher - They are knowledgable in area`s other Astartes _fear_ to delve into: daemonic law, possession and the like.


Thanks bobss, yes that was what I meant - and I said it was _Plausable_ that they would be superior in that regard 



gen.ahab said:


> Yes, but the same can be said about the Custodians being adept politicians as well as receiving training in the art of assassination and infiltration. They both have completely different skill sets. It’s trying to compare apples to oranges. And as far as martial prowess goes I am aware of a small contingent of custodians routing a force of thousand sons substantially larger than their own and killing several of the strongest sorcerers of the legion during the fall of Prospero. I believe it is in collected visions. They are also said to be larger and stronger than an astartes. As far as standing in the imperium is concerned I would say custodians outrank gray knights.


However in the other account of the Burning of Prospero (_A Thousand Sons_), the Custodes did naff all!

Im generally going to stick to my guns and say that the Grey Knights are superior to the custodes, but thats just me, and is really kind of pointless to continue to derail this thread too much


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

It’s in the collected visions which I believe trumps the HH novels. lol Its a tuff thing to compare and they are so damn insane it would probably just boil down to personal preference. And IDk if they would include another whole group in the book if they don't have to, would just make the writing more difficult when it doesn't need to be, most people just want to see the thousand sons and space puppies beat each other about the head and don't even consider the custodians.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> It’s in the collected visions which I believe trumps the HH novels.


Why would you think that the _Collected Visions_ trumps the HH novels?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Because I believe the HH books contradict themselves and the rest of lore more than a bipolar schizophrenic kid with ADHD. lol But in this case neither expressly contradicts the other so this is not really an example where one would trump the other.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Because I believe the HH books contradict themselves and the rest of lore more than a bipolar schizophrenic kid with ADHD. lol But in this case neither expressly contradicts the other so this is not really an example where one would trump the other.


GW's official line is that "Everything and Nothing is official and canon" - Thus both the _Collected Visions_ and HH novels are equally valid as one another.

But for the record, the _Collected Visions_ also contradicts itself and other previously established background.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Then we are to decide upon which source to choose according to what makes more sense. In this case I would choose the Collected Visions; you don't just send a force of elite custodians only to have them do absolutely nothing, somewhat pointless.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Then we are to decide upon which source to choose according to what makes more sense.


Indeed, well that is entirely up to you.



gen.ahab said:


> In this case I would choose the Collected Visions; you don't just send a force of elite custodians only to have them do absolutely nothing, somewhat pointless.


Well they didn't do nothing, but they seemed to make little impact at all in _A Thousand Sons_.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Again, in Collected Visions they routed a force of thousand sons substantially larger than themselves and eliminated three of the greatest sorcerers of the legion that would have been a fairly large impact. The reason it probably wasn't included in the novel was most likely the fact that it would have been a totally different story line that they would have to tie into the end, easier just to not mention them.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Again, in Collected Visions they routed a force of thousand sons substantially larger than themselves and eliminated three of the greatest sorcerers of the legion, that would have been a fairly large impact.


Indeed. But in _A Thousand Sons_ (Which goes into the Burning of Prospero at much more depth) they didn't


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Again, totally new story element that would just make the novel longer and wouldn’t really further the story all too much since the thousand sons would lose anyway, would be easier just not to include.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Again, totally new story element that would just make the novel longer and wouldn’t really further the story all too much since the thousand sons would lose anyway, would be easier just not to include.


Out of curiosity, because I havnt got my copy of _Collected Visions_ with me here, but does it mention the names of these three sorcerers?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

If it did I wouldn't remember, I read it at a friend’s house. If it does it is in the part about Constantin Valdor...... although since you don't have your copy that doesn't really help you. If someone has a copy with them help would be great. I just looked it up again on lex it says that the pages would be 236-241 or something like that.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Their names are not mentioned, nor is the matter of their rank or ability other than the fact they're sorcerers.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well..... Sorcerers are some of the most powerful psykers of the thousand sons so yeah, still a big hit. Thanks for clearing that up baron, I didn't think their names were mentioned anywhere.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Well..... Sorcerers are some of the most powerful psykers of the thousand sons so yeah, still a big hit. Thanks for clearing that up baron, I didn't think their names were mentioned anywhere.


Well technically the entire Thousand Sons legion (bar those who hadn't developed psychic abilities) were practising sorcery.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes but they didn't all obtain the rank of sorcerer.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Yes but they didn't all obtain the rank of sorcerer.


Since when is there a rank of sorcerer?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Weren't there aspiring sorcerers? That would imply sorcerer is a rank that can be obtained. Any old fool with psychic abilities is not a sorcerer. I was under the impression sorcerers were to the thousand sons what librarians are to the other legions.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

The Sorcerer is not a rank but mostly who is the Strongest to lead. Its a self appointed position and earned one. In the chaos hierarchy, It is based on who the strongest are and your place is determined by that system of strength. hence Berserker Champion, Aspiring Champion, etc.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Thank for you for actually helping my position dre, you just defined rank. :laugh: They have a prominent position in their society that is only given to the strongest. Rank.


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## Iron Within (Mar 15, 2008)

I know that this thread has taken a different turn, but I want to throw my book wish list out there...

I want the Emperor heavily featured in an HH novel, which I am sure we will see eventually.

It would be great if we could see some Night Lords and Iron Warriors in the HH series.

A book about Custodes would be pretty cool.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

I would like too see more stuff thats not about space marines or humans. lol Orks, Tau, Eldar, and a more detailed story of the Old ones.


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## Iron Within (Mar 15, 2008)

XxDreMisterxX said:


> I would like too see more stuff thats not about space marines or humans. lol Orks, Tau, Eldar, and a more detailed story of the Old ones.


This post reminds me, I would like to see a book about the Dark Eldar.


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## vacantghost (Feb 16, 2008)

LEGION OF THE F*CKING DAMNED!

shit's so cash.


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## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

bobss said:


> In reverse to that, I highly doubt any Custode would be allowed unhindered into the Vaults on Titan, or any Ordo Malleus institute for that matter.
> 
> I think CotE meant generic combat ability and martial prowess, ranking the Grey Knights as superior fighters by physically and mentally, for example the psycic Holocaust several brothers can unleash at once. Also, i`d rate the Grey Knight`s intellect as higher - They are knowledgable in area`s other Astartes _fear_ to delve into: daemonic law, possession and the like.


well actually, if the Custodes were to leave the Imperial palace and travel to titan it would probably be on a mission passed to them from there leaders... so yes they could in fact probably get into nearly any Malleus Institue... fat chance of that happening, as they very rarely leave the Imperial palace any more.

Gk being better then Custodes? i am not so sure, this is what Lex has got to say about there equipment and appearance(though i dont exactly quite believe it as it give info contrary to the pictures of the custodes, and not sure what Appearance really has to do with anything.) 

"The Custodes are slightly larger and stronger than Space Marines.

The uniforms of the Custodians are traditional but effective: boots, leather breeches and long black cloaks. Their torsos are naked(pretty sure that isn't correct) and corded with tattooed muscle. Their tall, brazen helmets, ominous and all-enclosing, give them a threatening and impersonal appearance; ancient and ornate, the helmets incorporate advanced protective equipment and communicators. 

Originally the traditional colour of the Custodes was red; following the confinement of the Emperor after the defeat of Horus, it was changed to black. 

The weapons carried by the Custodes resemble spears, but in fact they are laser weapons(not sure about that ether) built in the shape of spears. The spears are built to resemble the original guardian spears, carried by the Adeptus Custodes before the Emperor's confinement. The guardian spear is closely associated with the Custodes, and is depicted on their banners and badges"


Oh and Gen. i do not believe there is a rank Sorcerer, maybe after they turned traitor but not during the Heresy.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

It's a social rank damn it. I wasn't referring to a badge that they get that says "SORCERER." lol damn it people there is more than one meaning for that word. And their librarians were referred to as sorcerers before the heresy I think.


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## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

Lies And Betrayal Gen!!! lies and betrayal....


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

NEVER! :wild:


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Custodes are like Space marine ninjas. lol 

and yes the GK would have to let them in to Titan because the Leader of Custodes is a Lord of Terra and can go their if he wishes under certain protective precausions, regulations, trials and tests. lol


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Yep Custodian's go armourless for the most part now, Lexicanum is right in that respect- I'm sure if the Imperial Palace was actually attacked they'd armour up but right now they prefer to get a tan.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Any 5th edition codex that isn't related to Space Marines.


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