# Were the primarchs really that much taller then an astartes?



## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

we see that The Red Angel, Abaddon and Ahriman are close enough to Horus..... and it doesn't really seem like Horus is much taller 


now obviously power rise, Horus is stronger then anyone in that room (besides the Red Angel since he is a daemon)...but height wise, the warmaster doesn't look much taller


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Fulgrim doesn't look much taller as well


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

In the novels, Space Marines are mentioned to come up to a Primarch's chest (about similar proportions with a regular man to a Space Marine).

It IS noted that Abanddon was especially large. Too large to fit a normal terminator suit.

Still, the other marines are still a bit too large. They need to be cut down maybe 15%.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

hailene said:


> In the novels, Space Marines are mentioned to come up to a Primarch's chest (about similar proportions with a regular man to a Space Marine).
> 
> It IS noted that Abanddon was especially large. Too large to fit a normal terminator suit.
> 
> Still, the other marines are still a bit too large. They need to be cut down maybe 15%.


well how many primarchs are in this picture....i count two, Horus and Fulgrim but are their more?


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Using artwork as a basis to draw height comparisons, unless it is a picture specifically made to highlight size differences, is never a good idea. Different artists draw things differently. And I don't know how you can say Fulgrim doesn't look tall. The noise marine next to him, while being placed a bit forward in the pic, doesn't come close to his height.

For accurate info on their heights though, stick to the written fluff. Generally, primarchs are basically to space marines what space marines are to humans in terms of size/height/scale difference. With exceptions like Alpharius/Omegon being shorter than average and guys like Magnus, Curze and Ferrus Manus being exceptionally tall.

Also... they got Ahriman's armour colour totally wrong. The moment the Thousands Sons' armour went from red to blue happened long after the Heresy, as detailed in _Ahriman: Exile_.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

The artists in some of these HH novels have done a horrible job in showing the contrast. One that especially jumps out is the Leman Russ picture in the Space Wolves novel.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Emperorguard500 said:


> we see that The Red Angel, Abaddon and Ahriman are close enough to Horus..... and it doesn't really seem like Horus is much taller
> 
> 
> now obviously power rise, Horus is stronger then anyone in that room (besides the Red Angel since he is a daemon)...but height wise, the warmaster doesn't look much taller


The primarchs were nearly the same size as astartes, and in some cases a foot or less taller. 

The majority of what we know of the primarchs history is diluted, and horrifically warped by governmental propaganda. You have to keep in mind Emperor Guard that the text we have been able to get a hold of have already gone through many layers of Inquisitional processing, thus they have been heavily edited for our viewing.

The pictures however which can be more easily verified through aging methods, seem to portray a far more historically accurate depiction of the primarchs height. All in all Emperorguard500 the astartes were likely on average 5'10-6 feet tall, their power armor adding maybe another couple of inches to them.

The primarchs by contrast were likely 6-6'5 in terms of height, you have to keep in mind the primarchs and the astartes were not large in physiology, rather they became large to the effect of legendary status attributed to them over time.

Would you like me to expand more on the subject EmperorGuard500?


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Lux said:


> The primarchs were nearly the same size as astartes, and in some cases a foot or less taller.
> 
> The majority of what we know of the primarchs history is diluted, and horrifically warped by governmental propaganda. You have to keep in mind Emperor Guard that the text we have been able to get a hold of have already gone through many layers of Inquisitional processing, thus they have been heavily edited for our viewing.
> 
> ...




ehh i doubt its that...i think their legitimatelly 7ft and 8ft


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Emperorguard500 said:


> ehh i doubt its that...i think their legitimatelly 7ft and 8ft


The 7ft and 8ft thing is mostly just propaganda, they were really just about 5-6ft tall.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Lux said:


> The 7ft and 8ft thing is mostly just propaganda, they were really just about 5-6ft tall.


nah


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Emperorguard500 said:


> nah


Yeah for the most part they were mostly just humans that were extensively trained.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Lux said:


> Yeah for the most part they were mostly just humans that were extensively trained.


i mean do you have a source?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Lux said:


> Yeah for the most part they were mostly just humans that were extensively trained.





Emperorguard500 said:


> i mean do you have a source?


It makes sense because the Primarchs cry a lot while Astartes never do.

Lux, what are your thoughts on the Astartes being the actual Primarchs but their essence was _distilled _ into the legions to create the thousands of super troops we've come to know? And the 20 Primarchs were just really human commissars with mind control abilities to control the legions?


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Emperorguard500 said:


> i mean do you have a source?


You're wasting your time there.... :wink:


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Nah, he's getting what he deserves, Tawa. :wink:


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

Lux said:


> Yeah for the most part they were mostly just humans that were extensively trained.


They have a cave troll


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Emperorguard500 said:


> i mean do you have a source?





Gromrir Silverblade said:


> They have a cave troll


Its lux she is the goddess of trolls. IF she responds with sauce then it will be 'in between the lines of x'


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Emperorguard500 said:


> i mean do you have a source?


Yes


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> Nah, he's getting what he deserves, Tawa. :wink:


Fair play, fair play 



Gromrir Silverblade said:


> They have a cave troll


_We_ have a cave troll :wink:



Lux said:


> Yes


Epic. :rofl:


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Gromrir's sentence would have been correct, had there been a comma between "cave" and "troll". :wink:


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Emperorguard500 vs Lux?

I gotta watch this...

*makes some popcorn and pulls up a chair* opcorn:


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## Logaan (May 10, 2012)

As long as I have been into the hobby, I always took it as;

Average human - 6'
Astartes - 7'+
Primarchs - 8'+

Nothing I have read ever suggests that a Marine ever being under 7 feet.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Logaan said:


> As long as I have been into the hobby, I always took it as;
> 
> Average human - 6'
> Astartes - 7'+
> ...


Considering the height difference between me and thee I'd probably rank as "Squat"....


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

I was just browsing the BL site and was oogling the cover art for The Unremembered Empire. By those proportions, the Primarchs are probably between 10 - 14' tall, compared to the normal humans nearby.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

The only specific reference I can remember to primarch height was in _Descent of Angels_, where they describe the Lion as just under 3m tall.

_Descent of Angels_, Chapter 16, pg. 279:



> The Lion was a truly imposing physical specimen. A giant, standing at a little under three metres tall, it was impossible to escape the suspicion that he had been cut from a broader canvas than the majority of men. His body was perfectly proportioned and entirely in scale with his height. He was powerfully built, lithe yet muscular.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

So about 9' 8" then?


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Pretty much. The Lion would make a kickass janitor. Could replace lightbulbs without a ladder. And could double as a security guard too. I do love the "escape the suspicion" bit though. Almost 10 feet tall and you only _*suspect*_ something? :laugh:

If you take that reference though, I'd say most primarchs were somewhere between 9'0" and 11'0". Not sure where the exceptionally tall or short primarchs would rank though. I'd imagine Alpharius/Omegon would have to be well under 9'0" to be able to disguise themselves as regular space marines. Dunno where Magnus and Ferrus would rank. Magnus was known to be the largest, and Ferrus was at least a head taller than either Corax or Vulkan. If we take that roughly 9'8" value for the Lion as fact, Curze would probably be somewhere around 10'6", considering he was described as quite a bit taller than either Guilliman or the Lion in _The Unremembered Empire_.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

And power/terminator armor adds even more bulk.

I recall a note from Deliverance Lost where Corax studied the Source Template for the Primarchs, which mentioned Growth hormones.


Edit: The 'home' village for the Primarchs on Terra, had apartments filled with Primarch sized furniture. Also from Deliverance Lost. And in Unremembered Empire, its explicitly noted that Guiliman had also of Konor's furniture replaced with ones sized for him, though he kept his antique cogitator out of sentimentality.


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## XXTerminus DecreeXX (Jan 25, 2014)

Yea based on the cover of Unremembered Empire the look to be a good 9-12ft. although The armor would def add height so i would say 8-9ft with out power armor.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I think comparing the models which FW are releasing is the better way around to get some actual comparison.


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