# jaws of the world wolf vs tyranids



## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

I just ran into this power for the first time ever. It was in a two thousand point game. In one turn, it managed to kill about 350pts of my tyranids... using only one rune priest.

I am still in shock about how powerful that psychic power is in the SW's codex. As an ork and tyranid player, that power is absurd. What can I do? I am half tempted to just refuse to play the other player if that power is taken, but that seems childish. However, the power is absurd.


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## Epatus (May 17, 2009)

It is not that bad. Do tyranids have something that causes psyhic tests to be taken on 3D6?


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

You also have access to Doom of Malanti, which is absurd.:grin: 

To be honest you would need to be particulary unlucky to lose that many nids to a Jaws attack due to the general high initiative and + 1 for MC. Some of the big beasties with low I are a bit vulnerable but you just need to adapt your plans around it. As Epatus said, look at incorporating the 'equipment' that makes psykers test on 3D6. I would be more concerned by the possible hign amount of guns the wolf player probaby has in the form of long fangs.

If you look at co-ordinating your attacks to pop transports and then assault the contents with another unt you should stilll own them close combat if you attack on your own terms. Space wolves will generally have an old fashioned fire base which you should look to neutralise through out flanking units and/or drop pods or tunnelling stuff, (or other nid nastyness). A couple of units of hive guard, (which don't need line of sight would be useful to hammer the rhinos, especially the one with the rune preist in as if it is stunned or shaken he can't 'shoot' from the top hatch.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

You mean use those hive guard with 2 initiative? Having looked through my book, almost a third of my available units are 2 initiative or lower. 

This guy was using a droppod army with the priest in the droppod with some other unit. He got the unit into position and then ripped through my units. Amongst them, a tyranofex and a hive guard.

The shadow of the warp is a basic synapse creature ability... that effects units with psychic ability within 12 inches.... It is f*&king useless.

As to tactics, I was doing fine. I had reserved the entire army. Outflanked with two groups of genestealers and one group of ubered hormagants. Etc etc etc. I was trying out a tyranofex because I thought it would be fun for a change. 

As for the doom, having tested it out, I don't use it in fun games. It can be too game breaking and mean. I had taken it out of this game.


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## Forty Three (Jun 20, 2008)

tbh, JotWW isn't all that hot, and even if it was, complaining that other people use the better things in their codex and then saying you don't use the best available to you is a bit silly. If you want to cripple yourself you can do that but then complaining that others don't doesn't make too much sense


as far as JotWW go, it's a straight line and only 24", so if you know you're facing it don't put all your big guys on a straight line. Also, as far as I know tyranids have decent psychic defence, which with the proliferation of psykers in all the new codexes is something you should probably include. Failing that, kill the rune priest! he isn't all that tough really.

43


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

Jaws is a fun power to use but it isnt that successful if your playing anyone other than nids or horde - If you know what your doing you can set a trap as he tries to get it the power off. As a nid player id be more concerned with murderous hurricane. the anti horde power!


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Forty Three said:


> tbh, JotWW isn't all that hot, and even if it was, complaining that other people use the better things in their codex and then saying you don't use the best available to you is a bit silly. If you want to cripple yourself you can do that but then complaining that others don't doesn't make too much sense
> 
> 
> as far as JotWW go, it's a straight line and only 24", so if you know you're facing it don't put all your big guys on a straight line. Also, as far as I know tyranids have decent psychic defence, which with the proliferation of psykers in all the new codexes is something you should probably include. Failing that, kill the rune priest! he isn't all that tough really.
> ...


1. First time playing space wolves

2. Didn't know what it was.

3. Nids psychic defense is a joke, unless you are lucky with you synapse creatures. In all honesty, it is almost as bad as the tau psychic defense. The cheapest psychic defense is 60pts and because it is an elite, you usually take three of them. So, the actual cheapest psychic defense is 80pts. 

4. Can tell you are obviously not friends with the people you play against and have no idea how a tyranid army works. A tyranid army always has the psychic defense, it is part of the synapse ability. The problem is it is useless.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

MJayC50 said:


> Jaws is a fun power to use but it isnt that successful if your playing anyone other than nids or horde - If you know what your doing you can set a trap as he tries to get it the power off. As a nid player id be more concerned with murderous hurricane. the anti horde power!


It pretty much seems to destroy low initiative non-mech armies. Which, at this point, are both of mine. It would do bad things to Tau, Orks, Necron, Nids... Maybe a few others. Of the above list, as far as I can tell, Tau has no anti-psychic, nor do the Orks. Pretty sure Necron don't either, and for whatever reason, Tyranid anti psychic was specifically designed to only counter other tyranid psychic abilities. It is a 12 inch bubble that only exists around synapse creatures who have an average price of 150pts, and whose psychic abilities have a max range of 12 inches. Means you don't want them exposed because if you lose them all, your army falls apart.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

In all honesty, I am just bitching because I am still pissed about it. I lost a quarter of my army to a silly, ridiculously overpowered psychic ability. I am going to stick to my original plan. I play for fun against friends. If the guy really wants to use, he can find other people to play.

At least with the other psychic powers, there are at least cover saves, armor saves, or invulnerable saves. No just a HAHA, fu*k you, your dead. Even force weapons and implant attack have a couple roles of the dice so that they can be avoided and don't work on pretty much everything. It is a power that seemed to be designed to screw over certain armies.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Jaws is really only super devastating against Tyranid armies that are taking a lot of really big 'uns. Carnifexes, Tyrannofexes and Tervigon are the optimal targets for Jaws, so it pays to simply not take some of these units (especially Carnifexes) to make yourself less vulnerable. Do note that I'm not talking about tailoring your list to suit your opponent - I mean in general be well aware that these units have vulnerabilities to this ability and if you come up against the Space Wolves a lot, take steps to counter them.

In addition to that, it's not actually that difficult to get in range to start messing with enemy psychic powers. Use mycetic spores to drop Zoanthropes and Hive Tyrants into your enemy's face and have _Deep Striking_ Trygon Primes appear in just the right spot. Also, never feel bad about using the good units in your Codex (like the Doom of Malan'tai). There's nothing wrong with using the options available to you as long as you're not seriously bending or breaking the rules of the game.

Hope this helps!

Katie D


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## Raptors8th (Jul 3, 2009)

lokis222 said:


> At least with the other psychic powers, there are at least cover saves, armor saves, or invulnerable saves. No just a HAHA, fu*k you, your dead.


Yes, because taking leadership on 3d6 will always pass. Double boneswords are basically, as you put it, a "HAHA, fuck you, your dead" weapon against characters, even Ld 10 is failing it on average. And doom is just like you said, no saves at all, nada. Really fucks you over if your running a character on his own.



lokis222 said:


> It pretty much seems to destroy low initiative non-mech armies. Which, at this point, are both of mine. It would do bad things to Tau, Orks, Necron, Nids... Maybe a few others. Of the above list, as far as I can tell, Tau has no anti-psychic, nor do the Orks. Pretty sure Necron don't either, and for whatever reason, Tyranid anti psychic was specifically designed to only counter other tyranid psychic abilities. It is a 12 inch bubble that only exists around synapse creatures who have an average price of 150pts, and whose psychic abilities have a max range of 12 inches. Means you don't want them exposed because if you lose them all, your army falls apart.


Several points:

1. Of the four armies you mention, only one has serious problems with Jaws: Crons. And at this point, crons are basically the "Haha, funny" army, so I wouldn't even count them. Orks don't really take much of a hit, if your opponent has any brains he's spreading them out and you're lucky if you can hit 7 of them a turn, and your typical ork player's bring 50-200 of them, so no worries. Tau should be playing mech, and have small squads which makes it hard to get more than 1 battlesuit a turn. And then nids. If you still had the old nid dex I'd feel sorry for you, but with the new one you're just whining. Jaws screws over nidzilla, which used to be the best nid list out there. Now it's not. Your fex is 150 points basic, and if you start upgrading it it gets more expensive then a trygon. Tyrannofex is incredibly survivable generally, but it costs more than a land raider and isn't as useful. All of the old nits that used to be great got nerfed, and the good units now are (surprise surprise!) the new ones that you have to go out and buy. If you try to keep running your old nidzilla in fifth it'll get slaughtered, so don't complain when it does.

2. Aren't a lot of your synapse things good in CC? So why a re you keeping them in the back? Also you state that the cheapest synapse you can get is over 70 points. Bullshit. Warriors are 30 points a pop, and have shadow in the warp. Get three of them and stick them up there in his face.

Anyway, point is jaws isn't all that great, just screws you over if you're playying crons :laugh: or still trying to use nidzilla.


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

also remember that you get +1 for being an MC so even if your I1 then you still live 1/3 of the time!


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## Forty Three (Jun 20, 2008)

my point was that judging the balance of a psychic shooting attack based on one game you have won't yield realistic results, and JoTWW isn't really all that hot. I play SWs and I feel there are 2 to three powers I'd take before I take JoTWW, mainly because it's only good against tyranids and orks. Now if you say to me that the guy you played with chose that power knowing you'd be playing nids then that's list tailoring and it should definitely be frowned upon.

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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Living Lighting and Murderous Hurricane are way better for your army in an all comers list than JOTWW will ever be. It's a potent power, but against like 10 units in the game. Nurgle units, Tyranno's, Carnies, and Tervigons, and as mentioned the Crons (which they are gimped against everything anyways) so most armies just laugh and take JOTWW and laugh when nothing bad really happens.


TBH, get over it, and bring some genestealers and just eat his face. Also, if you are running Nidzilla with this codex, and don't have a minimum of 40 stealers and 30 hormagaunts, then you are playing it wrong. This codex is ALL about the troops, which are awesome.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Forty Three said:


> Now if you say to me that the guy you played with chose that power knowing you'd be playing nids then that's list tailoring and it should definitely be frowned upon.


Pretty sure. He generally makes up his list once he figures out which army I brought.

@Katie: Don't like meta gaming as a rule. Try to never do it.

@Raptor8th: With the doom, you get invulnerable saves and cover saves. Warriors are 30 a pop with a minimum group size of 3. So, it is actually 90 for a basic warrior synapse group. I don't run a nidzilla. Never ran a nidzilla. Depending on points, I sometimes run no monsterous creatures. At 2000 pts, I have three monsterous creatures. Finally, hard to use a 12 inch synapse bubble when I am having rune priests droppoded on me. 

@Taggerrung: His was not an all comers list though the one I was running was. I was running 44 hormagants, 16 genestealers with two broodlords, a ranged hive tyrant and two tyrant guard, 3 hive guard, 2 zoanthropes, a deathleaper, and a trygon. 

The list was holding its own against his list. I had lost a bunch and he had lost a bunch. Then, with one shot, he destroyed almost a quarter of my army. Also, it turns out he misplayed it. I talked to someone who knows the space wolf rules since then and he shot me without line of sight. If he had been in line of sight, he could not have hit me nearly as badly based on the terrain. The guy I was playing said he was able to hit me without line of sight because of some unkillable unit called collector of souls (or something), but I was talking to a friend of mine and he said that this unit will increase the ballistic skill, but does not give the rune smith line of sight over the entire battlefield.

So, if that is true, it isn't nearly as bad as I thought. Still bad, but at least he has to be able to see what he is shooting at.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Yes it increases his BS by 1, but that's it (Other than deploying within a certain distance of it).

Well first off, your friend is a douche for tailoring. Second of all, it really sounds like is playing it wrong. You must have line of sight to your target, you must make it in a straight line (Something the width of a piece of twine) and can only go 24" from the rune priest, hitting all models, friend and foe. The models then must take an initiative test (Roll your initiative or lower, a 6 always fails) and MC's get a + 1 to their initiative for the test. With that list I don't see it taking out a quarter of your army...Your list seems solid, so either he did it wrong, or you had the worst rolling ever lol.


I know it seems "broken" but it's very situational power, and is easily mitigated.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Taggerung said:


> Yes it increases his BS by 1, but that's it (Other than deploying within a certain distance of it).
> 
> Well first off, your friend is a douche for tailoring. Second of all, it really sounds like is playing it wrong. You must have line of sight to your target, you must make it in a straight line (Something the width of a piece of twine) and can only go 24" from the rune priest, hitting all models, friend and foe. The models then must take an initiative test (Roll your initiative or lower, a 6 always fails) and MC's get a + 1 to their initiative for the test. With that list I don't see it taking out a quarter of your army...Your list seems solid, so either he did it wrong, or you had the worst rolling ever lol.
> 
> ...


He droppoded in behind a line of sight blocking wall. Used the thing? to get LOS on my model and managed to carve through 400pts of units, so it is actually a fifth, not a fourth. I exaggerate when I am upset.  I rolled threes and I needed twos.


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

Its very situational, next time he could pull the same thing and he kills nowhere as near as many of your guys, and it was probably luck on his part that they were lined up for him-- very rarely will something like that happen more than once. I wouldnt be too worried, its actually a lesson and example on how battles can turn so quickly, and we can seemingly do nothing about it (or at least we thought at the time) but im sure you can build off the experience and ensure it doesnt happen again


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

lokis222 said:


> He droppoded in behind a line of sight blocking wall. Used the thing? to get LOS on my model and managed to carve through 400pts of units, so it is actually a fifth, not a fourth. I exaggerate when I am upset.  I rolled threes and I needed twos.


Wait...the list you showed had nothing that was initiative 1 or 2, except the Hive Guard. I guess I don't know how you could have lost so much of your army when most everything needs to roll 5 or 6 to lose a model. In the end, just make sure that Rune Priest gets eaten alive before his next round. lol


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Taggerung said:


> Wait...the list you showed had nothing that was initiative 1 or 2, except the Hive Guard. I guess I don't know how you could have lost so much of your army when most everything needs to roll 5 or 6 to lose a model. In the end, just make sure that Rune Priest gets eaten alive before his next round. lol


Tyranofex is initiative 1. I forgot to write him on the list I put up earlier.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Ah ok, well that's your first problem! Tyrannofex's are an awful point sink haha! Now I see why you were upset though, losing him is a brutal blow in one shot.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Taggerung said:


> Ah ok, well that's your first problem! Tyrannofex's are an awful point sink haha! Now I see why you were upset though, losing him is a brutal blow in one shot.


Yeah. First time using him. Was not horribly impressed even before he was destroyed in one shot. Thinking at 2000 another alpha trygon would be of more use and give implant attacks to both broodlords with the extra points or something. Off-topic, but what odds.


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