# 8th ed Ogres, how do they roll?



## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

So, after a full summer of work Ive been drooling over the new OK models the same way a hungry Ogre drools over a tasty looking Halfling. I have a fair sum of Ogres already, and loved the previous armybook (n.b. the way it was produced, the fluff, the layout, the feeling of the book. NOT the way the army played on the boards). Though I did love to smash Stardragons stone dead with my Tenderiser Tyrant :biggrin:

I havent even looked in the new one. How does it hold up? Is it still charmy in its own brutal way like the old one? Is the army remotely more playable then the previous one? Will it bring any gaming joy? Does it work in 8th ed WHFB?

Also note this: I dont give fuck all about SCs. Not one bit. Greasus can pick his Goldtooth all he wants, I dont care. Leave them out. I wanna know about the rest of the bookk:


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

I think it can work pretty well. You're still looking at a small model count for sure but some of the new stuff can pack a pretty good wallop.

I built a list up which consisted of 2 units of 8 ironguts, 2 units of leadbelchers, a cannon, a stonehorn (awesome models!) and some of those mournfangs.

Just from looking at the mournfang stats I'm kind of amazed! D3 S5 impact hits, 7 attacks at S4/5 and a S5 stomp (I think)? Wow. T4, 3 wounds each & the ability to give them a 3+ armor save? niiiice

Poisoned, sniper maneaters with pistol braces might become a thing too. Not sure. Could be a nasty way to remove characters.

I don't know much about the old book so I don't know what's changed in the characters & basic core but all the new stuff looks pretty snazzy.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Three mournfangs is the same unit as 10 Empire Knights, barring a 2+ save versus a 1+, but they get parry saves, so it evens out. The Ogres roll the same as they always did, low armor save high wound units wading through a storm of fire, and only succeeding if they get the charge off on the enemy. But they have a lot more tools in the bag now, and seem more flexible and more fun.


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

* and now they have a cannon that can move and shoot.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

The new OK book improved the maw lore (made it work like normal magic and gave it an excellent lore attibute), made ogres, ironguts and leadbelchers all cheaper and added a lot more flexibility adding a hard-hitting heavy cav unit and additional monsters and chariots that can shoot (or hex the opponent in one case). Nothing is too cheap and most of the models are reasonably priced and playable. Ogre pistols are very good and well worth taking in some instances (on maneaters for example). 

One big debate is whether it is better to run more ogres (due to their lower points costs and the ironfist armour save and parry save boost) or ironguts (no unit size restriction, great weapons hit harder, +1 LD over ogres, but no parry save and more expensive). If one expects to face a lot of T3 and modest AS units, then running ogres is better for the numbers and ironfists. If one expects to see more T4 to T7 units and high armour save units, then favour ironguts. 

The leadbelchers are cheaper and more reliable. Each leadbelcher does D6 shots with no penalties for multiple shots or moving, so they shoot just like flamers but with longer range for the price of an irongut with the combat stats of a base ogre. (Flamers have the benefits of skirmisher ability to free reform and march and shoot, so they are still superior shooting models.) Leadbelchers will attract shooting and die over time to massed shooting but moving and shooting without a BS penalty is a huge bonus and the cost is well worth it. 

Heroes were made cheaper but lords were made more expensive, so one will tend to want to only run one lord (slaughtermaster most likely) until one gets to 3000 point armies. The firebelly is worth taking for its price but expect to see only one slaughtermaster and one bruiser bsb. 

Mournfang cav hit very hard with multiple impact hits, more S5 attacks from the mount than from the rider and with 2+ AS and parry save (with ironfists and heavy armour on the riders). On the charge, each model will average 4 S5 hits (up to seven with impact hits and attacks from the mount and one stomp) and 1.5 S4 hits (3 attacks, +2S if great weapons are chosen for the riders and the +1AS and parry save are given up). Their points costs are significantly less than bloodcrushers, so they are reasonable and underpriced (in the absence of cannons and S4 or greater shooting). The mount is so good that one would be willing to pay almost the cost per model just for the mount without the rider. 

Thus, one strategy is to run ironguts as a hard hitting core unit with small units of gnoblars to screen and redirect and delay charges on the leadbelchers (their quick to fire abilities can kill something) or one or more larger gnoblar units (deep in ranks like skaven slaves within range of the general and BSB). Then add one unit of 3 to 4mournfang cav, maybe a unit of 3 to 4 maneaters (kind of pricey but scouts and ogres pistols and some of the other abilities one can choose from make them very useful threats), and ironblasters and the base leadership lord and BSB models. Using target saturation tactics and the movement of ogres, one can get into combat with the hard hitting units and/or move and shoot with the leadbelchers for at least a couple of turns. Armies with good war machine shooting will cause problems but other armies will have some issues dealing with ogres. 

Of the magic items: Only one or two of the big names are worth considering for the points costs (count against magic item points limits for characters). The dragonhide banner is worth considering for what it does (breath weapon plus re-roll 1's to hit, to wound and for AS when charging). The hellheart is interesting for a character in a unit that wants to march across the table, get close or into combat and force miscasts and disrupt the enemy magic phase. 

In summary, ogres will be a fun and more flexible army to play with a better lore and cheaper core models and a better and cheaper base special infantry unit and, thus, will be very competitive but not likely to be broken. I think it is the best of the three new army books that have come in 8th edition and there appears to have been some very careful thought about the proper points costs for models and the additions the army required in order to be more competitive and have better threats. 

One current debate is whether the availability of ironfists for wizards allows wizards to take armour. If so, then a slaughtermaster with armour of destiny and an ironfist is an excellent lord with magic item points to spare for other stuff.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I prefer in the "are ironfists armor" debate, Armor of Shining Steel, Amulet of Protection build. 2+/4++ on a fair combat and great caster is well worth it. I personally am somewhat convinced by the "They are bought as weapons and aren't armor" argument. But the FAQ will tell. And I still run a Tyrant and Slaughtermaster in 2500 point armies. Still working out what goes where.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

The book certainly seem considerably more fun to play and experiment with, but there seems to be some amount of, what I call, "Cruddacism". There are, IMO, quite a few redundant models in the book (much like Cruddace's 40k books, the Tyranids and IG) that seems to be there just because the authors felt compelled to include them. Such as the Yhetees and the gorgers.

In the old OK book, gorgers were often a useful tool to deal with hard-to-get units and while Yhetees became quite bad with 8th. The 2 units are included here as well, only now they are seriously overcosted and almost, if not completely useless.
The scraplauncher is now more bland, more reliable but also without as great rewards when it works. 

The firebellies also seems inferior to butchers and slaughtermasters, but for those who wants lore of fire and not to spend a lot of points in wizards he's a decent buy. Unfortunately for him, Gut magic is quite useful.

Generally the book seems a lot better (but as olderplayer notes, not broken), with a lot more options, tactics and a more forgiving playstyle.


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH said:


> ". There are, IMO, quite a few redundant models in the book (much like Cruddace's 40k books, the Tyranids and IG) that seems to be there just because the authors felt compelled to include them. Such as the Yhetees and the gorgers.
> 
> while it's a small shame that these creative units aren't as useful now, the book as a whole got a huge boost in the arm. From what I've read/ heard/ seen, the Ogre army is now one of the most, if not THE most, well rounded armies out there. They have a serious threat for every phase.
> 
> ...


30 point ogres are making my jaw drop. It's not broken, but damnit it's VERY good. 

green w/ envy.


sorry to paraphrase you.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Well with reference back to Maiden's original post...

I think the book is a 180 on how you saw the last book: its much more playable, but I think its lost quite a lot of its charm and character. Its certainly lost vast amounts of its funky items.

Special Characters- awesomely cool models (except Golfgag) with pretty nice fluff but 3/4 are next to useless on the tabletop (Skrag's just as good as he always was). Golfgag is a points sink, Bragg is just a bruiser with no armour (and no benefit if you refuse his challenge) and Gresus is still an M4 ogre, expensive and not that impressive.

Items- they're gone fluffy: ogres don't make magical weapons and don't prize them that highly, so we haven't got many. The pricing of half of them is absurd (especially siegebreaker: lost 1S but can replace S with height of a building you are storming... for +55pts). The banners are cool and well worth their costs, the arcane items are characterful and funny and the rock eye is in the running for most valuable <10pt item.

Fluff- THE FIRE MOUNTAIN IS NOT A GOD.
They also took the fun out of slavegiants (just bog standard giants now) and played with some of the known clan's history and psyche. Especially the Eyebiters... which happens to be my tribe: they even changed my clan symbol.


Overall its still a fun book, with lots of cool ogre'y goodness and they're a solid army now... but I'll still look back on the old book as the ultimate source of ogre spirit.


@blackspine- 32pt ogres please... I'm thinking of altering the entry in my book so that ironfists come as standard equipment  Can't imagine a reason to not take them.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Thanks for the replies folks. Glad to hear that the book might actually be playable now for a change 
Sounds like they have changed quite a few of the really bad things, a bit sad to hear that Gorgers and Yethees still could have done with some more work. But hey, the Yethees are ugly as fuck so I can live without those at leastk:

Bit sad to hear its lost some of the spirit, and the magical items stuff (but that seems like standard now days). Probably a good swap though, better to have a working army then a cool one which sucks:read:


Perhaps should give 8th a try in a while, start with a new armybook first at least.....


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I actually kind of like the Firebelly. The fact that he's a wizard really is pretty moot I think-- what you're really getting is an Ogre with a breath weapon and a great weapon (you give him the great weapon or you're doing it wrong...) for a very low cost. And if he gets something like Flaming Sword of Rhuin as his spell, he can buff Leadbelchers with it and make them have a rather silly shooting phase.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Firebelly is cool and fire spells can really be cool with ogres: imagine a gnoblar hoard buffed with bullgorger and flaming sword: S3 with +1 to wound LMAO

Personally though I think the Great Maw is a must for ogres if you take a single wizard and if I'm taking a second I would much prefer heavens then fire (though the breath weapon is cool I don't normally need to do extra damage in combat... well, maybe in a challenge). I find heavens a perfect partner for the great maw and ogres: the sig spell is why I take it, but everything except the stupid wind spell is really helpful.

I would much prefer the firebellys' fluff if it had a litle more depth and some ogreyness to it: the winds of aqshy will be strong near a volcano anyway and picking up some fire spells if you are living around there for long periods isn't surprising, which the ogres could attribute to the volcano itself... I just think that bit could be a little richer. 

Some bits of it just make me laugh: they're a single tribe (hmm, how to let them be taken by others.. oh, I know) but get occasional wonderlust (good one). To become a firebelly you have to catch and eat a creature that lives in magma, then drink a cup of molten magma (nice, that sound s=shiny... hmm better give them some sort of fire protection) so they gain a 4++ against fire.
Seriously, they've drunk magma, have fire continually alight within their bellies and have had all their hair burnt off and eyes boiled by being lowered into an active volcano... but if they get hit by a couple of fire arrows they'll get scorched by 1 of them?

To me this just seems like the rest of the book: designed with gaming in mind and with cool fluff on the surface, but it starts to be a little silly if you read it in depth.
Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the new book's performance on table and the new units are awesome... but a shame the fluff isn't as well done as the last book.


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## eyescrossed (Mar 31, 2011)

I agree with Tim/Steve. Reading the fluff of the Firebellies, I was thinking they'd at least get a 3+ Ward against Flaming attacks.

Also, Tim/Steve, it's Golgfag, not Golfgag


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I field firebellies cause I like the model. And the breth weapon has put me way over the top in several combats. And there's lots of things the firebelly hits firts, knocks downthe regen,and then it dies.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

eyescrossed said:


> I agree with Tim/Steve. Reading the fluff of the Firebellies, I was thinking they'd at least get a 3+ Ward against Flaming attacks.
> 
> Also, Tim/Steve, it's Golgfag, not Golfgag


I thought it was Golffag


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

As an update, the current feedback is that new Ogres are pretty strong. I just read a battle report from someone that went 5-0 at a top Indy GT in the US and a second Ogre player went 4-1 and won best general at that tourney (due to objective points counting with battle points). The problem now is that too many units are good and playable, so you have to make some choices as to how to focus the army. 

Ironblasters are well worth the points due to move and shoot, greater wounds and ability to defend itself in combat, and the ability to roll two artillery dice for the bounce is huge in terms of accuracy in hitting single models and in terms of number of models hit. 

Leadbelchers now cost a lot less and can move and shoot every turn without move and shoot or multishot penalties. Screened by small units of gnoblars with quick to fire and trappers that march in front but are too small to alter shooting they can get a lot of shooting off and then do a supporting charge. 

Mournfang cav are proving to be quite potent and worth their points. 

The lower cost, boosted abilities (+1S, +1A, and +1 LD over ogres with heavy armour and great weapons and ogre pistol options) and flexibility of the special rules for maneaters is huges. One player ran 9 and just ran over stuff even when losing 4+ to shooting and magic. 

Sabrecats add cheap and fast war machine hunting and interference and redirectors to the army. 

The new May lore is very good and competitive and the additiion of the firebelly and other common lore options has boosted the magic abilities of this army a lot. I've heard talk of banning hellheart because it can be so effect in forcing opposing castors to roll on the miscast table (imagine a team battle with hellheart and a warriors of chaos wizard with infernal puppet). 

Finally, they made they significantly reduced the costs of ogres and ironguts and removed the restrictions on army construction to allow for more flexible construction of core.


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