# Rumour: Forgeworld making all variants of Titan!



## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Hey all.

Just been told that Forgeworld may be making models for the rest of the titans!
Beginning with the Imperator.

Also going to be making Knight and Warlord class.

Source is an employee of GW.

I personally think this is untrue or atleast a very long way off but just think of the possibilities!

SGMAlice


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Pretty nice, having been a fan of _Mechanicum_ by Graham McNeill, I want to see what the Knight Titans look like .


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

perfectly possible, never thought i would see a Phantom to be honest, but here we are with a phantom, plus reavers and revnants and warhounds, not to mention bio titan and other huge beasties , i have to admit i put Knight titan every time i order.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

If they do make an Imperator I think i'll likely buy myself one. The God-Machines!


Lord of the Night


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## vraksianrebel (Jan 14, 2011)

surely an imperator would be about £1000 quid tho?


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## lav25gunner (Dec 13, 2008)

vraksianrebel said:


> surely an imperator would be about £1000 quid tho?


I don't see much reason to make all the Titans unless they lower the price enough so that people can buy them. The only time I have ever seen one is at games day.
If GW sold plastic version for the same price as the Stompa, I'd buy 2 or maybe even 3. But until, FW can make 20 different classes of Titans and I wont care.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

vraksianrebel said:


> surely an imperator would be about £1000 quid tho?


So is the Manta.

Myself and a friend were discussing that very thing and if they do make the Imperator then i can see it costing that much and only being made to order like the Manta is.

SGMAlice


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## MrPete (Mar 5, 2011)

I could see them doing an Imperator in a similar way to the Tau Manta, on a cast to order basis. Half of me thinks that the prices of the titans would make it so not many people buy them, so it could be a risky move.


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## vraksianrebel (Jan 14, 2011)

dont get me wrong i have a chaos reaver and a chaos warhound but the reaver is far more than i would ever spend on a model as it is, only got it as my GF went halves but i dont think i can get her to pony up 500 (not that i wont try lol)


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i doubt FW would be going into this endeavor blind, every order placed online asks what model you would like FW to make, so in essence they know what kinda market there is out in the real world (something GW should consider asking now and again) thats why i think it no accident we now have preheresy marines and phantom titan.


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## MrPete (Mar 5, 2011)

I think what i'd be more interested in is how bloody big the things would be. An imperial titan the size of or bigger than the phantom titan would be quite a sight to see (don't know how the current imperial titans scale up next to the phantom).


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

This sounds bloody Awesome, shame i cant even afford a Warhound Titan yet, still i would love to see a Warlord Titan, imagine the detail on that bugger, I think they ought to make the Banelord first, stuff the imperial version lol, anyway imagine the detail in head alone wow.

The weapons themselves would cost £100.


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## Tzeen Qhayshek (May 4, 2010)

I wonder if said titans would have Chaos counterparts.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

An imperator would be larger than my little cousin.

The day FW produces all of the variants is the day my ass craps out miniaturized flying monkeys.


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## GreatUncleanOne (Apr 25, 2011)

well seeing as the reaver with weapons is almost £600 I think the warlord will easily be £1000 and god knows how much the imperator would be! you could probably have a battle on its back in the citadel.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Did I hear big ass titans possibly in the making? 

Give praise to the mighty God Emperor for entrusting us his mightiest weapons to wield!


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## Zer0 (Jan 13, 2009)

Guess I better get cracking on the scratch-built one I had planned on building . . . three years ago . . . That sounds pathetic.


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## MrPete (Mar 5, 2011)

Also, holy shit at what the points cost would be for an imperator.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I call bullshit. I really doubt they will ever go above the medium titans, why? The imperium is the only ones with them. Pretty sure al the chaos ones are probably toast by this point.

Right now the Phantom is about 3 or 4 inches taller then the reaver, there is a pic of them standing next to each other on the FW website.


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## IanC (Sep 3, 2010)

MrPete said:


> Also, holy shit at what the points cost would be for an imperator.


4000 points. Theres a datasheet on the GW website.

I'd buy a Knight.


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## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

I'm an unbeliever in this rumour, much like Djinn24. Given the sheer point cost of large Titans, there's just not much use for one, other than as a conversation piece.


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## EmbraCraig (Jan 19, 2009)

I could definitely see a knight model coming out - I'm pretty surprised there's not been one already tbh, since it would be a cheaper entry point to titan type models that I'd guess would be pretty popular. The same weapons could fit a few different body variants too, so could get a fair bit of bang for their buck when it comes to sculpting.

Some variant of a Warlord... maybe... but an Imperator? Thinking about how long it's taken them to get the new Eldar Titan out, then how much longer is something as large and elaborate as an imperator gonna take them to get sculpted? One as a display piece, or a games day custom job to be used in a battle then put in GW HQ maybe - I'm not seeing it as a real potential release, though.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

My opinion:

Warlord - definately

Chaos warlord - most likely

Gargant - most likely

Imperator - unlikely.

The imperator was a one shot thing. It came in a game, that wasnt all that popular - the scale of which that to be 'fluffy' it would need to be large enough to have a full company of imperial guard in each leg and the towers on top would be about the size of a warhound.

I suspect that when anyone talks about 'the full range' of titans, they arent including them.


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## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

Waaaaait just one minute.

I just realized Forgeworld also makes Epic 40K minis. For those, adding the other Titans to the lineup might actually make sense.

EDIT: Well, more sense than full-size 40K ones, anyway.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I would love to see the smaller then scout titans come out myself. Eldar had knight titans as well .


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## deathwatch27 (Dec 30, 2009)

The old knight models were kind of cool would be good to see them in 40k scale instead of epic.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Did someone say 3 warp fiends knight titan?

On a more serious note considering their release scheduling it will still be 4-5 years before they have all titan variant, and that's assuming these rumors are accurate. 

Side Note: I wounder how much the new titans will cost, I imagine a knight titan would be around 200 dollars with weapon arms, and a warlord would be closer to 700-800 with guns. As for the imperator....I have no idea.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Shandathe said:


> Waaaaait just one minute.
> 
> I just realized Forgeworld also makes Epic 40K minis. For those, adding the other Titans to the lineup might actually make sense.
> 
> EDIT: Well, more sense than full-size 40K ones, anyway.


thing is next to no one could afford somthing double the size of a reaver.....


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I understand the point about the manta being about the same size as some of the larger titans but it is a much simpler and robust shape than a bipedal titan. As far as I am concerned the imperator is far beyond the size of anything we are likley to see. Even the reaver and the phantom were a bit of a surprise, but given that they have been built the warlord is a possibility, however a remote one at best. The knights on the other hand would be a huge winner. They will allow those who want titans but cannot afford the larger ones to at least have something of that type on the gametable. Not to mention that they exist for more than just one race. Ideally this will include things like the questor and the slaneesh subjugator, the towering destroyer and the bright stallion and hopefully the khorne lord of battle along with the more well known knights, the paladin, the warden and the lancer. As far as gargants go I think the slasha would be about the limit, but that is probably pushing it.

On the other hand maybe they are just doing them for epic scale.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

shaantitus said:


> As far as I am concerned the Imperator is far beyond the size of anything we are likely to see. Even the reaver and the phantom were a bit of a surprise...


 I still think the Reaver model - lovely as it is - is _way_ too small to fit in with the fluff; IMHO it should be 24" tall as an absolute minimum. And when you get all the way up to colossi like the Imperator, realistically that should be at least 10 feet tall to match how it's described - with battalions of troops nestled inside its legs, cathedrals on the top etc. etc. When you work that out so it's in scale with the 28mm models, 10 feet tall is probably even a bit on the conservative side...


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Svart, I have a less then 24in tall titan on my desk right now. You do NOT need to have a titan that large, they are unwieldy as is. I had to buy a tuffbox to make a custom carry case for this commission as is.

Only way you can get much larger is if you have a fucking sit button so it can ride in the back seat of you're damn car.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Svartmetall said:


> I still think the Reaver model - lovely as it is - is _way_ too small to fit in with the fluff; IMHO it should be 24" tall as an absolute minimum. And when you get all the way up to colossi like the Imperator, realistically that should be at least 10 feet tall to match how it's described - with battalions of troops nestled inside its legs, cathedrals on the top etc. etc. When you work that out so it's in scale with the 28mm models, 10 feet tall is probably even a bit on the conservative side...


Indeed, that may very well be the case, but fluff and practicality rarely agree.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I have to agree with djinn. I have a scratchbuild reaver underway at the moment. And at 18inches tall is far smaller than it should be for perfect scale. Practical concerns have led me to make something smaller. As long as it is visibly bigger than my warhound then it is fine with me. If i was to build a warlord i would actually build that to about 24 inches in height. Would be far too small for the purists but at least i can transport is without a box the size of a coffin and a hearse.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Titans are silly. They're a silly concept, look silly, and they are improved by silly hats.

Plus, my supersonic air planes have the fire power to blow them up. Tau iz unimpressed by these shapeless, cumbersome mockeries of a failed perspective on warfare. We laff at your derp. We shoot holes through your herp.

I will allow titans to be used in games against me, as long as the owner puts this on it:


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Why are they a silly concept? 

I'm not sure how they are silly but the rest of 40k isn't?


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

I find that comment abit silly as well, why are titans silly? i find that there a natural progression of war machine for races, especially races who make "robots" in the shape of a humanoids, dreadnought, wrath lords etc, 

And when considering sci-fi it self is full of giant robots, of some sort, Power Rangers, alot of anime eg neo genesis evangelion and gundam wing its only natural for GW to have them, just more over the top.

I like the concept of titans myself, the fact there huge machines in the shape of humanoids gives them a more sinister look, this is feature is of course taken further with Chaos Titans and them resembling daemons. Its the cool factor as well, whats the coolest way to have massively destructive weapons, have them mount on a giant walker.

Ramble over.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

In the grim darkness of the 41st millenium, noone can hear you jest.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

djinn24 said:


> Svart...You do NOT need to have a Titan that large, they are unwieldy as is. I had to buy a tuffbox to make a custom carry case for this commission as is.


 Oh, I didn't say it would be practical or easy to deal with...it's just that, to fit the fluff, Titans should be absolutely bloody huge. 




gen.ahab said:


> Indeed, that may very well be the case, but fluff and practicality rarely agree.


 Yeah, but to my mind fluff > practicality every time. It's _40K_, dammit! Fuck subtlety. Fuck subtlety _right in the ear_ :biggrin: 




MetalHandkerchief said:


> Titans are silly. They're a silly concept...


 Nah, they're a terror weapon. If you just want to level a city, a couple of minutes' worth of orbital lance strikes will do that, easy. If you want to terrify a city into submission, park a Titan outside the gates so they can _see_ the instrument of their doom towering over them. 

That said, I now want to see FW make pimp hats for Titans...


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> In the grim darkness of the 41st millenium, noone can hear you jest.


Nope just the Chaos Gods.


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## Overbear (May 10, 2011)

Shandathe said:


> I'm an unbeliever in this rumour, much like Djinn24. Given the sheer point cost of large Titans, there's just not much use for one, other than as a conversation piece.


Who cares about the point cost? If you are in an apoc game, you bring the titan and run it, thats your whole army. Figure you have 4-9 other guys on your side, that becomes a pretty balanced setup.

Besides, you have guys like me that can field 12000-15000 points of space wolves for the apoc game, what's another 2000-4000 points? I already have thunderhawks, butlloads of drop pods and termies, and more whirll's than you can shake a stick at, out.


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## Scathainn (Feb 21, 2010)

Horseshit. No offense, but horseshit. Or at least the Warlord and above.

Why? Because the Warlord have to be this big at least:










That's a Warhound in its left hand.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

yanlou said:


> I find that comment abit silly as well, why are titans silly? i find that there a natural progression of war machine for races, especially races who make "robots" in the shape of a humanoids, dreadnought, wrath lords etc,



No, they really aren't. They would be large, very easy to hit, pieces of shit. They would be impractical. If they were ever made, a warhound would be the largest they would ever become. But yeah, this is probably a bit off topic.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Scathainn said:


> Horseshit. No offense, but horseshit. Or at least the Warlord and above.
> 
> Why? Because the Warlord have to be this big at least:
> 
> ...


But GW's stuff has never been strictly to scale. Making the biggest titan about 6 in. taller then the Warhound should be good enough.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Wusword77 said:


> But GW's stuff has never been strictly to scale. Making the biggest titan about 6 in. taller then the Warhound should be good enough.


The warhound is 10.5", the reaver is 16".......... Gonna need to kick that up a bit.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Scathainn said:


> Horseshit. No offense, but horseshit. Or at least the Warlord and above.
> 
> Why? Because the Warlord have to be this big at least:
> 
> ...


Actually, I completely disagree - that is WAY to large scale wise - look at the baneblade in the foreground, the titan could step on it and almost entirely crush it.

Now look a the epic scale warlord next to epic scale superheavy tanks:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/65679-.html

So either the baneblade in 40K is WAY too small (but about a factor of 10 by the looks of things) or that titan is WAY too large.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

ye but if you go with that scale then the warhound is the size of a baneblade, i say that the GW baneblades are to small if your going by that scale

khorne


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

There are Chaos Imperator Titans, but I suspect anything more than Knight Titans is wishlisting. (Dreadknight counts-as?)


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

According to Lexicanum the official measurements of an Imperial Baneblade is such.

Weight: 319 Imperial Tonnes
Length: 13.5m
Width: 8.4m
Height: 6.3m
Ground Clearance: 1.2m
Max Speed: 25kph.

Titans that come in kit form are not based on @28mm scale, they are classified as no number scale, if they were true @28mm scale then this is what the state of play would be.

Warhound Scout Titan is 14m high, in @28mm scale the model would stand 500mm or 19.75 inches tall
Reaver Titan is 22.3m high, in @28mm scale the model would stand 796mm or 31.25 inches tall
Warlord Titan is 33m high, in @28mm scale the model would stand 1178mm or 46.25 inches tall
Imperator Titan is 43m high, in @28mm scale the model would stand 1575mm or 62 inches tall
Warmonger Titan is 45m high, in @28mm scale the model would stand 1607mm or 63.25 inches tall


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Scathainn said:


> Horseshit. No offense, but horseshit. Or at least the Warlord and above.
> 
> Why? Because the Warlord have to be this big at least:
> 
> ...


That looks about spot on in @28mm scale.

If FW were to bring out a titan on this scale then you would not get much change from 3,000GBP and that would just be for the body, the arms would go for at 700GBP each and the Shoulder Waepons say another 250GBP each, you'd be looking at least for the whole kit around 5000GBP


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

sad part is tow bio titans coming on with flank march would still cripple/kill that thing.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I cant see this happening. Not just because of the cost of the model, but due to the weight of the model. It would be to massive to support its own body wieght on the leg joints, unless they made custom steel metal joints, which seems too much to do.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Jeez Louise you would'nt want to drop that thing 10000GBP down the shitter.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Achaylus72 said:


> Imperator Titan is 43m high, in @28mm scale the model would stand 1575mm or 62 inches tall


Which is only 142 feet tall; any description of an Imperator in novels (I'm thinking 'Titanicus', right now, but there are other Imperators dotted around the place) has them standing orders of magnitude bigger than that. Remember this thing is supposed to have a _cathedral on its shoulders_...with an overall height of less than 150 feet, it's just not happening. I could believe 150 feet as the height for a Warlord, maybe.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Svartmetall said:


> Which is only 142 feet tall; any description of an Imperator in novels (I'm thinking 'Titanicus', right now, but there are other Imperators dotted around the place) has them standing orders of magnitude bigger than that. Remember this thing is supposed to have a _cathedral on its shoulders_...with an overall height of less than 150 feet, it's just not happening. I could believe 150 feet as the height for a Warlord, maybe.


I am quoting Lexicanum directly, i am only messenger, either your novels or Lexicanum is incorrect, and as far as i know Lexicanum gets its information on technical data directly from GW.

Correction

According to Lexicanum the Imperator Titan is 55.4metres tall.

Imperator Titan is 55.4metres tall. @28mm scale that would be 1978.5mm or 89.5 inches tall or just under 7 1/2 feet tall that is one tall model.


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## deathwatch27 (Dec 30, 2009)

Isn't Lexicanum part of Wiki therefore anyone can add, change or subtrack any info they wanted. Yep just check


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

deathwatch27 said:


> Isn't Lexicanum part of Wiki therefore anyone can add, change or subtrack any info they wanted. Yep just check


As long as you are registered with Lexicanum and you can back up your information, they allow you to change anything as long as it can be verified by their staff, then go for it.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Having played a reasonable amount of apocalypse and using up to the scout titan sized units I can say having read the larger titan rules that things would get quite unbalanced by introducing the larger titans.

Either they would dominate the game or they would be too weak to represent the mighty machines they are supposed to be.

40k even with apocalypse rules begins to break down at this scale and you end up with most units being close to irrelevant.

I think that the largest FW titans are as far as they will sensibly go, that and not many people are going to fork out more than the £500 mark for one model which you will only get to use in a handful of games.


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## Khargoth (Aug 5, 2010)

Remember that the Apocalypse rulebook has (actually quite decent) rules for the Warlord titan.

The Reaver is undersized at 18" tall but still reasonably scaled, I'd expect FW to do nothing bigger than a 24" tall Warlord.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Khargoth said:


> Remember that the Apocalypse rulebook has (actually quite decent) rules for the Warlord titan.
> 
> The Reaver is undersized at 18" tall but still reasonably scaled, I'd expect FW to do nothing bigger than a 24" tall Warlord.


There is also one for the Imperator actually. Can't remember where i got it from now but i have had it for a while.

12 Structure Points and 8 Void Shields. AV 14 14 13. 4000Pts.

SGMAlice


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## Fallen DA (Aug 25, 2008)

Even if the Imperator was to retail at a 1000 big ones. It would still sell :victory: There's obviously a market for it. May not sell quite as many for the obvious reason, but it would still sell. Not quite sure how bigga game of 40k you'd need to play points wise to justify it though.... :grin:


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

SGMAlice said:


> There is also one for the Imperator actually. Can't remember where i got it from now but i have had it for a while.
> 
> 12 Structure Points and 8 Void Shields. AV 14 14 13. 4000Pts.
> 
> SGMAlice


There is the instant problem, with that armor you are only realisticly going to break it with sustained fire from the hardest weapons in the game (apocalypse, not standard 40k) and then you have to pack loads of them, yes 4k of other units is pretty good but the way FW titans scale that 4k of titan is likely better than 4k other stuff.

Unless it is packing bolters then it will also be wasting 2k+ of units a turn until it dies.

The way games warp around a titan can be both fun and infuriating.

Yes the Warlord does exist in rules, but while it is not a kit the most likely time you will see one is when you are playing with a group which has enough metal to take one out.

The trouble I would see with anything larger is that the warping effect becomes even more pronounced, I can't see the game being much fun in this case. But.. I am prepared to be wrong.

The financial issues of such a large kit however make the warlord about the limit imho, and that would be a £1-2k kit maybe even made to order as it would be very large and very expensive to produce.

Better to go make a scratch built one than waiting for FW.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Bubblematrix said:


> There is the instant problem, with that armor you are only realisticly going to break it with sustained fire from the hardest weapons in the game (apocalypse, not standard 40k) and then you have to pack loads of them, yes 4k of other units is pretty good but the way FW titans scale that 4k of titan is likely better than 4k other stuff.
> 
> Unless it is packing bolters then it will also be wasting 2k+ of units a turn until it dies.
> 
> ...


I agree completely, but considering that the Datasheet for the Imperator was done by GW themselves it may lend credence to them eventually producing the model. It was initially produced, i would imagine, for those who had the time and resources to scratchbuild one themselves but still...

Who knows, only time will tell.

SGMAlice


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

I think that we have almost reached the limit of size for FW kits, at higher sizes we hit major price and logistics barriers. Developing larger kits has the problem that they simply will not sell enough, yes some people would buy them, but the £500 barrier (and around it) is quite a psychological one, the next limit is £1k at which point people really start to wonder what they are spending out for.

But, you never know, maybe a limited run kit or something, however I would not expect to see the imperator soon, the warlord however would be a very obvious top end kit and would be just about manageable in size.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Bubblematrix said:


> But, you never know, maybe a limited run kit or something, however I would not expect to see the imperator soon, the warlord however would be a very obvious top end kit and would be just about manageable in size.


I completely agree. I expect to see the warlord by the end of 2012, that would be my bet.

I dont ever expect to see the imperator - because I dont think resin could actually support that size of model, its so top heavy with the entire bleedin city on its shoulders that it would probably crush its own legs!


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## Khargoth (Aug 5, 2010)

Forgeworld *do* make the £690 made-to-order Imperial Fortress. I'm not sure about the Imperator but plenty of people would love a Warlord kit.


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

Don't believe it in the slightest
I believe the Phantom titan is as far is it's gonna go


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Vanchet said:


> Don't believe it in the slightest
> I believe the Phantom titan is as far is it's gonna go


Thats what everyone said about the warhound...


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Im curious, how often do Imperators ever appear in the fluff. As tall as Godzilla wearing High Heels I dont see that taking the battlefield often, much less a GAMING TABLE...... Whats the point?


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> Whats the point?


The total fucking annihilation of your opponent?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

You'll never be able to field it?!


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> You'll never be able to field it?!


Same could be said about a Tau manta.


They still made it.


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

i was speaking to someone about titans( a gw employey and his regianal manger)

and they were mentioning plastic warhound titans and asking me IF they made them how much would i pay?

could this be a sign?

the same manger asked the same questions before the stomper came out:laugh:


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## Codex Todd (Mar 22, 2009)

If they released a plastic warhound i would expect to pay the same as a stompa, as there technically the same class of titan.


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

Codex Todd said:


> If they released a plastic warhound i would expect to pay the same as a stompa, as there technically the same class of titan.


he siad to me they would prob look for about £100 for it


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

kickboxerdog said:


> and they were mentioning plastic warhound titans and asking me IF they made them how much would i pay?
> 
> could this be a sign?


I would highly doubt it.

GWs strategy over the last couple of years has been one of making kits which they sell in abundance, multi use kits such as the WLC for skaven and the sepulcher thingies for undead are examples.

The fact is that tooling and product development costs mean that they have to choose their products carefully, the best way to get return on this is high volume sales of a few kits rather than low volume sales of one big kit.

If the sales were low on the stomper, then its fair to assume they will be similar on a more expensive yet more popular kit such as a warhound viz. the kit will not get the required payback for GW.

Yes it would be nice, yes speculation on this will continue until the walls of GW fall, but it just won't happen with the current GW direction and I can't see any management which wants the company to survive making such a decision.

So.. no plastic titans as economics sadly beats coolness.

My advice to those wanting a titan and not wanting to pay out on FW kits - go build one, they are a relatively simple box shaped design easily made using some kit bashing and plasticard.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

you make some good points Bubble, but i still see a warhound as a possibility, it can be used by many more armies than the stompa, guard,marines,sisters and chaos would all have immediate access without looking out of place,plus used as an ally for many armies too, where as the stompa only really got picked up by ork players.

plus the release of something that iconic will also drive other sales, everytime a super heavy came out sales for FW and vehicles spikes as people play more appoc games, people would pick the warhound up in huge numbers and sales will jump as other people try to counter the new super heavy, would be nice if the other races got some access to supers too, cobra and scorpion should be easy to produce in one kit and imagine sales for the FW ones have now tailed off since they produced the titans.


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

I agree with BitsandKits, i can see it happening eventually, maybe not this year or next year but in a few years maybe and as BitsandKits says, the Warhound is one of those kits (like the Baneblade and Stormsword) thats accessible to more then just one army like the Stompa, a plastic Warhound could easy come with different parts to make different patterns or even parts to show it as either traitor or loyalist and definitely loads of weapon options.



> So.. no plastic titans as economics sadly beats coolness


Well if they have the Stompa (which is i assume an ork titan im, not a fan of orks so im not sure but considering the size) then i can see a Warhound been done.


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## deathwatch27 (Dec 30, 2009)

I they did get around to making them i'd buy a couple and some plastic thunderhawks while i'm at it SALT!!!!!!


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

I really have to come back on this, please READ what I wrote, I will explain in painful detail for those looking through rose tinted glasses and wishlisting rather than thinking.



Bubblematrix said:


> If the sales were low on the stomper, then its fair to assume they will be similar on a *more expensive yet more popular* kit such as a warhound viz. the kit will not get the required payback for GW.


Note the bold.

In the painfeul detail, facts:

1) A plastic warhound would cost more, More expensive kits will tend to sell less
2) A plastic warhound would be more popular, More kits will tend to sell
3) the stomper didn't sell as expected (read didn't see enough for GWs liking)

Assume that the amount that 1) detracts is similar to the amount 2) attracts, unless the effect of 2) is much greater than 1) then 3) still holds and GW won't bother.

4) GW like easy and safe sales == plastic warhound won't happen



yanlou said:


> Well if they have the Stompa (which is i assume an ork titan im, not a fan of orks so im not sure but considering the size) then i can see a Warhound been done.


Not if you think it through, the stompa was a failure of a kit, the baneblade much more sucessful but still not the boom that GW demands for its buck in current times. Take into the account that GWs business strategies have shifted since those kits and you have yet another reason why not.



bitsandkits said:


> plus the release of something that iconic will also drive other sales, everytime a super heavy came out sales for FW and vehicles spikes as people play more appoc games, people would pick the warhound up in huge numbers and sales will jump as other people try to counter the new super heavy, would be nice if the other races got some access to supers too, cobra and scorpion should be easy to produce in one kit and imagine sales for the FW ones have now tailed off since they produced the titans.


I see all your points B&K, but ... why? FW make them, they make a good profit (one presumes as they keep on making stuff) they don't have the expensive up front costs of plastic kits, and they already make these kits. Why incur large up front costs to not sell many more while also removing the sales you are currently getting from FW?

The business case for these kits would get laughed out the room, the hobby and game case is water tight - more armies access, fun factor, apoc more accessable - all good cases and points, but past experience by GW (stompa), a shift in business practice and the fact that they eat their own sales and invest up front in the same move == a definite no.

In fact, I will sig it:

GW will not make a plastic warhound - if they do I will youtube me building one and dropping it off a building then smashing it to pieces whatever it costs to do this!


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

How do you know the baneblade and stompa didn't sell enough?

Are those documented facts, or circumstantial evidence?


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Maidel said:


> How do you know the baneblade and stompa didn't sell enough?
> 
> Are those documented facts, or circumstantial evidence?


GW staff who were saying they were made to give the hard sell as it didn't meet expectations. Can't recall the exact conversations (multiple people, multiple stores - as I don't take anything said at face value in a GW store) but most were along the lines that the expected sales early on and how many they were told to try and sell simply didn't manifest, on other occasions talking apoc it came up that the were often told by higher levels of management to try and shift more as the kit was deemed a bit of a flop.

Then further confirmed at FW open day when discussing the stomper upgrades (which exist partially because one thought on why the stompa didn't sell too well was some of the options were apparently missing in the kit) with those in FW who make the decisions on what kits to make next.

So.. basically I have heard similar from multiple sources, it all coroborates and I have never heard anything to the contrary. You don't get more reliable on GW sales unless you work for GW.

As for the baneblade - I never made that ascertation that the baneblade had low sales as I have never heard anything said to the effect. I would however go as far as to say that if it had been a big success then we would have seen a whole lot more superheavies by now as GW often copies its sucesses.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Bubblematrix said:


> GW staff who were saying they were made to give the hard sell as it didn't meet expectations. Can't recall the exact conversations (multiple people, multiple stores - as I don't take anything said at face value in a GW store) but most were along the lines that the expected sales early on and how many they were told to try and sell simply didn't manifest, on other occasions talking apoc it came up that the were often told by higher levels of management to try and shift more as the kit was deemed a bit of a flop.
> 
> Then further confirmed at FW open day when discussing the stomper upgrades (which exist partially because one thought on why the stompa didn't sell too well was some of the options were apparently missing in the kit) with those in FW who make the decisions on what kits to make next.
> 
> ...


But basically - lots of hersay and logical assumptions. :biggrin:

Im not saying that doesnt make sense, but you posted it under the heading of 'facts' when they are infact merely your understanding and assumptions - it can be a bit misleading, even if that wasnt your intention.

Lots of kits that GW sell have 'low sales volumes' when compared to the best selling kits (Basically anything thats not space marines). Ive heard rumours that GW make a loss on half the plastic fantasy molds they make (again, rumours, nothing concrete).

I dont think the fact that they havent made any more super heavies actually means that they were a failure. The reason why I say that is that they wont make things simply for the hell of it - they need it to be linked into a promotion of some sorts.

So, in order for them to make another super heavy (for arguements sake lets say the warhound) they would need a suppliment or codex to come out that used the kit.

Just look at the latest white dwarf. They have a suppliment for fantasy and it introduced a whole load of monsters into the game. You could argue that if they didnt release another new monster for a year that it was because 'these ones didnt sell well' - but equally it could be reasoned that they didnt have a valid suppliment that needed one.

If GW do an apoc 2, or a mechanicus codex then Im sure they would release a few new super heavies, but they arent going to go to all that expense without some sort of tie in.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

I would agree a tie in would be the most likely release mechanism for new superheavies, but I find it very unlikely GW would ever go for a kit with a price tag in the order of £100, they are marketting to kids as a throwaway product and that price tag just doesn't fit thier current direction - that said neither does Finecast, but I think thats more of a cost cutting measure than a directional shift.

I may be wrong, but I think they are adopting (a very sensible) approach of letting FW get on with the big stuff while they get on with the smaller stuff, the stormraven, DE flyer thing (forget the name) and in some ways the stomper have closed the gap between the two production lines.
While the Nightspinner plastic kit has shown how they might integrate some of the FW upgrade packs into re-works of old kits. The synergy makes sense.

I see no compelling economic argument for GW to stop (as you wouldnt keep making / selling both) its FW production of a kit that large just to make it in plastic. I would imagine that FW make a very healthy margin and are ideally set up for low run production, so why make a high investment, probably lower margin product which removes an existing one - it just doesn't work.

I do however see GW moving the high runner medium sized kits such as Hierodules, Nightwings, smaller Tau craft into a plastic kit. This makes sense, take the high run 1-2 sprue kits and make them cheaper to sell than the FW and quickly pay off the initial investment while freeing up space at FW for upgrade kits (pre-heresy stuff), huge models (phantom) and specials (ravenwing stuff). All of which are the staples of low volume FW production.

If, and this is a huge if, they were to make a larger FW kit then the one I really think we would see is the thunderhawk, the kit would be much simpler to make and would still leave titans in the realms of the aspirational and expensive FW toy.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

I agree with most of this. However what I would say about FW vs GW is not about size, but about volume.

Everything FW make is low volume models - ones that it wouldnt be economically viable for GW to make. This is the reason why I think some models have 'jumped the gap'. Some models proved very good sellers (supposition on my part) like the wave serpent and the leman russ variants and it made it viable for GW to produce them in plastic.

Some of the smaller stuff probably isnt a good volume seller and thus GW wont bother taking it on.

Conversely things like the baneblade were good sellers and thus Gw probably thought it would be viable for them to make the jump.

The arguement I would see is how good the sales figures are for things like the warhound and eldar scorpion and the other super heavies as to which would be viable for GW to take over.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Note: what follows is a complete guess, but I think a good estimate

If we assume sprues are:

2 for legs (to build one left and one right)
1 each for weapons
1 for mid section and middle of legs
2 for head and top mounts etc
1 specials - for the details, the one with variants etc

That I recon is conservative and likely an undershoot on number of spures.

Each mold has a cost, I have recently sourced some molds admitedly quite high spec, but I think GW must be paying around £20k per mold, if we absorb all other pre-production costs into the molds I recon they are getting them cheap at that.

This means up front costs would be:

7x£20,000 = £140,000

If we assume a huge margin on the product of 75%, and that they sell the kit at £100 then they need to sell 1867 kits before they have even paid back their investment. thats over 2 kits a day with a 2 year payback (estimated).

I would image this is completely out in some areas, but unless GW is getting cheap as fuck molds or making a killing on the product (not that 75% is anything short of superb) then the outlay is just too much. I don't see them taking that risk.

As for size and volume, the issue is that big models need lots of sprues and development costs are high. Lots of little projects are much less risky.

As for other superheavies, maybe, the ones which are most likely are as you said - the ones with high sales to pay off the intial costs. I think it likely if we see another superheavy that it IS imperial based, but I stand by my line that the warhound is too big.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Well i can't speak on any hard facts, but what i have observed since 2007 and that is GW in reality (well my reality) did not support Apocalypse well, Apocalypse should have ruled supreme as the best expansion GW ever released, but it fell short, let down by a smattering of coverage over the last 3 and half years.

What i have seen as far as Banebaldes, Stormlords and Stompas were concerned was that folks went out and bought them but with Gaming Leagues virtually did not play Apocalypse, so folks bought these kits, built them, painted them but very rarely play with them, so in reality that did not get value for money.

The problem as i see it these large kits are essentially expensive paper weights and dust collectors.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Bubblematrix said:


> As for other superheavies, maybe, the ones which are most likely are as you said - the ones with high sales to pay off the intial costs. I think it likely if we see another superheavy that it IS imperial based, but I stand by my line that the warhound is too big.


Ill bet you +rep for a month (as often as possible) we get one before the end of 2012. 

What do you say?:biggrin:


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

I want a plastic 1.Scorpion/Cobra kit, 2. Revenant, 3. Vampire class flyer kit then. Any one of those three, please. I am dreadfully tired of Baneblade variants.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Bubblematrix said:


> ...but I think GW must be paying around £20k per mold...


£75K would be closer to the mark.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Svartmetall said:


> £75K would be closer to the mark.


Is that per kit, or per sprue?


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Maidel said:


> Is that per kit, or per sprue?


Per sprue, as it takes one mould to make one sprue.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Svartmetall said:


> Per sprue, as it takes one mould to make one sprue.


Correct me if im wrong, as you would be the person to know - but dont 4 standard sized sprues all come from one mold?

What I mean is that you have 1 mold that has 4 of the standard sized sprues all as one big sprue, which is broken up to put in the packets?


It could be completely the wine that taking, but im sure ive seen that shown somewhere before.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Maidel said:


> Ill bet you +rep for a month (as often as possible) we get one before the end of 2012.
> 
> What do you say?:biggrin:


Sold 



Svartmetall said:


> £75K would be closer to the mark.


wow, they are some costly molds, but I guess they are very precision and likely much more hardened than the ones I am ordering.

As for the 4 sprues per mold, maybe, some appear to look like that - svart would know more. But I think the back of the envelope calc stands - I will be staggered if they make one.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Maidel said:


> ...don't 4 standard sized sprues all come from one mold?


The honest answer is "I don't know". GW operates very much on a need-to-know basis (understandably, having had so many leaks in the past) and the injection-moulding stuff is not my department...so I don't need to know. I'd assumed one sprue per mould, but depending on what size the injection moulds are I guess it could be several actual sprues per mould.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Svartmetall said:


> The honest answer is "I don't know". GW operates very much on a need-to-know basis (understandably, having had so many leaks in the past) and the injection-moulding stuff is not my department...so I don't need to know. I'd assumed one sprue per mould, but depending on what size the injection moulds are I guess it could be several actual sprues per mould.


Fair enough. A few years back I had a kit which had a quarter circle attached to one corner. When lined up it appeared as if all 4 sprues were once one big sprue from that circular piece in the centre.


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## Khargoth (Aug 5, 2010)

Maidel said:


> Fair enough. A few years back I had a kit which had a quarter circle attached to one corner. When lined up it appeared as if all 4 sprues were once one big sprue from that circular piece in the centre.


I've had a few like that too.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Well if it works out as 4 small sprues per mold, then it fits in nicely with Bubbles initial idea of costs.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

I Want Me A Mekboy Gargant!!!!!!


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Looks like his pics have fallen off but Gog has made a nice gargant and his mek-stompa isn't bad either. Will try to persuade him to upload some current pics. But the gargant pretty much starts life as un upturned bucket


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

I've seen many discussions and some actual models built for lucius pattern warlord titans. They are about 30-34 inches tall.

I'd say they are probably more likely to produce Lucius pattern Reaver Titans first, to match the Lucius Pattern Warhound Titans.

If they do create a Warlord Titan, they'll have to change how they build models. Solid cast resin would be too heavy and not strong enough to hold itself together. They'd be better off making it out of formed plastic, like the larger scenery pieces (ref. Planetstrike Bastion, Fortress of Redemption).

As far as scale goes, GW has never stuck to scale models. Do you really think 16 space marine models could fit in a Land Raider Crusader? Book authors tend to use artistic license to exaggerate descriptions for dramatic effect.


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## Lord of Rebirth (Jun 7, 2008)

As it is I think several of the larger titans would be a bit to big to make much sense though FW has been making things that used to be impractical for a long long time. I;d like to see some other smaller titan stuff like the knights and at least one more chaos warhound variant then why not some other stuff like a daemon possessed chaos titan or one of those weird chaos variations you hear about with a tail or something?


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

I would LOVE to see a plastic thunderhawk model that sold for a reasonable price. They've made plastic Ork and Imperial guard super heavies, why not a space marine one? You know there's a lot of space marine players that would be willing to spend $200 or so on one.

A plastic Tau and Necron super heavy would be nice, as well. Maybe even a plastic revenant eldar titan. Show some Apocalypse love to the xenos players.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Somehing new for you all to speculate on if you wish.
This is a direct quote from Forgeworld on FaceSpace regarding the Warlord Titan.



> We'd love to design one eventually but it would be a 2 to 3 year project minimum, and we haven't got beyond 'yeah it'd be cool' at the moment...


Here is where it was found: http://www.facebook.com/ForgeWorldUK Second comment down at the time i wrote this.

SGMAlice


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

2 to 3 years??? are they all part time?


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> 2 to 3 years??? are they all part time?


2 to 3 years doesn't sounds that unreasonable to get a project from nothing to production. Warlords are huge so it's a big undertaking and I imagine the process for approval of large projects is probably a long one.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Yeah.. plus you have to remember initial design sketches, intital sculpting times, addjustments so it can fit into a mould properly, making of said mould and so on...


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

SGMAlice said:


> Forgeworld may be making models for the rest of the titans!












That is too repulsive to be true.

Then again, FW have been a whole bag of fail for the past 2 years :ireful2:



jaysen said:


> A plastic Tau and Necron super heavy would be nice


A plastic Manta? Impossible. Biggest miniature in the game. Maybe a Tiger Shark. But if you're talking about some form of huge walker or tank? Never. Tau would never use something that cumbersome and stupid.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

3 years is 5760 hours for one person, most of the design work has already been done with the warhound and the reaver and the concept work already exists with the extensive back catalogue of models and artwork from all the way back to the 80's, combine that with CAD and rapid prototyping and im sure 3 years could be shaved to a year.

dont get me wrong i worship the ground these guys walk on,but the 2 to 3 years is more likely the planned release schedule for it giving the other Titans enough sales space to be picked up by collectors,do the games day circuit etc etc


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> 3 years is 5760 hours for one person, most of the design work has already been done with the warhound and the reaver and the concept work already exists with the extensive back catalogue of models and artwork from all the way back to the 80's, combine that with CAD and rapid prototyping and im sure 3 years could be shaved to a year.
> 
> dont get me wrong i worship the ground these guys walk on,but the 2 to 3 years is more likely the planned release schedule for it giving the other Titans enough sales space to be picked up by collectors,do the games day circuit etc etc


Well you need to get funding approval, time in your plan. The design work is not insignificant as you need a model that will be structurally sound when it's standing up. Then you need to detail all the parts and work out what makes a kit etc. 

Anyway assuming they get holidays 3 years is only 5220 hours for one person. And 4000 hours of that will be sat on someone's desk for project approval.


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