# should C:DA combined with C:SM?



## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

so, recently i have been having this 'argument' with my friends at the LGS and i believe that Dark Angels just don't have a different enough "feel" to them, on the table top, to justify a codex in my opinion.

now i sure i will get crucified by the DA players but i want to give my reasoning.

1) they ARE a codex adhering chapter* exception Death & Raven Wing. this eliminates the "greenwing" third of DAs.

2) the Ravenwing has lost its flavor of being unique since a generic captain can do the same thing, maybe not as cool with having a land speeder in it. this eliminates ravenwing.

3) the only thing that the Dark Angels have going for them is the Deathwing. Deathwing though is just a first company, and many first companies are all terminator based.

4) now for the special characters i believe that Belial, Azrael, and Ezekiel should be included into the C:SM book. now in my opinion a generic captain/chapter master(s) would unlock terminators to be troop choices, but Belial would allow for creating combined tact/assault termies. like currently.

----

basically i just believe that there are very few tabletop/fluff (debatable) reasons why i believe the Dark Angels should have a separate codex from Space Marines.

thoughts?


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

The only problem I see is "Lol my blue marines have termie armor now".


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

CA no longer has a large difference from C:SM because of the 5th edition C:SM codex allowing you to take bikes as troops (so you can build a full ravenwing army).

Hopefully GW will do more for DA then just make them an all Termie army.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

yes DA can be put in the normal SM codex, however there would be a back lash from DA players asking how come BA,BT,SW get there own etc,etc. 

with the same reason you chould aruge why not add BT in the SM codex. For example if you take an emp champ you get ******


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

TBH I think it would be better to just lump all of the space marine dexes into one "super codex", I always thought it was silly that the space marines had five codexes to start with.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Instead of being put into the normal Marine Codex I'd like to see the Dark Angels get an update and have their relatively few divergent traits given more emphasis. I think the Deathwing should be _the_ premier Terminator armored force in the game and I think a Deathwing army should be able to do something really fancy other than teleport on the first turn and mix weapons in a single squad. Same with the Ravenwing, make them more than Fearless, Scouting Bikers that cost a lot of points for very little.

I think an entirely unique unit should be given to the Dark Angels as well, just like the Space Wolves were given Thunderwolf Cavalry and the Blood Angels got Sanguinary Guard.

Marine haters will no doubt love to see the Dark Angels get rolled into a book combined with other Chapters, but I think the Dark Angels have potential to be a very interesting army if only they were given some attention.


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## exsulis (Jul 17, 2008)

Just because JJ has no idea of how to write a codex does not mean that they should be squat'd.

They are less codex adherent then the blood angels, again this has to do with the current codex being a crappy ill thought out, and incomplete. And then the SM getting a play tested version with most of the DA goodies. 

Check the GD aussie thread on some of the developer's feelings about the current DA codex.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

exsulis said:


> Check the GD aussie thread on some of the developer's feelings about the current DA codex.


um...just for those of us, ok me, that are a little lazy on where to find that. can you post a link?

Edit: from the "Gamesday AU Wrapup" thread in the News & Rumors i found this, is this what you mentioned earlier?



> - Adam did go on to mention Necrons and Dark Angels as two in need of help, but it didn't sound particularly to indicate any info on forthcoming releases.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

I think they should unleash Matt Ward on the DA codex and have him come up with some crazy arse fluff and OP'd choices to make them more distinct.


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

I think the DA have every right to a stand alone codex, they just need updating to bring their peculiaritiesto the fore.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Nah, they should be seperate, C:SM just needs to btfo the other chapters cool bits and run standard marine armies like it should do.

If they keep crossing them all over one day you could have a Wolf Wing with the whole army on wolfback. Or a chicken wing... Not sure what that'd entail though.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

No, they should not be merged with some other codex. No army with a Codex should be stripped of its own codex.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

They should rename the "Codex: Space Marines" to be "Codex: Ultramarines" because Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Black Templar are all Space Marines.


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## exsulis (Jul 17, 2008)

Fallen said:


> um...just for those of us, ok me, that are a little lazy on where to find that. can you post a link?
> 
> Edit: from the "Gamesday AU Wrapup" thread in the News & Rumors i found this, is this what you mentioned earlier?


Yes, indeed that is the thread I mentioned


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## Master_Marius (Sep 5, 2010)

As Dark Angels player i want a different codex... They just have to update de Dark Angels codex like they did with BA and SW and make it unique again. And Deathwing should be the best termies unit of the empire.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

The Squats wept...


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

I think that they work fine as an army- they are the originial FoC swappers and *Insert* as troops force.

Unfortunately, with the advent of the SM Biker Captain, and the advent of Logan, Dante, and the Grey Knights Codex... their Schtick of Bikers/Termies as troops has been watered down greatly. 

I went to the hobby shop the other day, and was asked what I play. "Deathwing" I replied. To my suprise, I was then asked what codex. I replied with Dark Angels. Without missing a beat: "Oh? Space wolves to it better." 


I don't want them to be combined, but I do think they need something to make them a bit more unique. They need to have the best Termies/Bikers for sure, and possibly some rules that make the Green Marines able to support that better. Maybe something along the lines of "When taking Ravenwing, Tactical Squads in your army may make a free scout move."


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Repent and die the fool who suggested such an abomination!
On a more serious note I agree the divergent traits of the DA have not been made explicit enough, and need to be more than C:SM with deathwing. The problem is they've nicked most of the ideas and stuck them in the vanilla codex for cheaper *grumblegrumble*


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

jaysen said:


> They should rename the "Codex: Space Marines" to be "Codex: Ultramarines" because Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Black Templar are all Space Marines.


Ew no not Codex: Ultramarines that would be sacrilege against my poor Imperial Fists!

As for the topic at hand no it shouldn't be merged the DA have two very interesting factions in the Deathwing and Ravenwing. They just need to be retweaked after the introduction of the IC's that change the rules in Codex:Space Marine to make them more emphasised.


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## Durandal (Sep 18, 2011)

Have Ward write the next codex, so it wont be a crock of shit. Ill weep tears for the DA if Cruddace writes the book, they were my first marine army.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

As it is now, they don't merit a full codex. Their army composition is even fully determined by what HQ you pick, like in the vanilla SM book! In a way, they did it first. Black Templars at least have unique mechanics and rules.

I'd still say toss them in the general heap, though. They aren't really that more distinct than Salamanders or Iron Fists, and the number of books could get a bit more manageable...


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Although I play Dark Angels I think that they should be rolled into Codex: SM, and given a HQ character. Imperial Fists only got a Captain, Raven Guard got a Captain, Salamanders got a Captain, and they are no less important than the Dark Angels. Belial or Azrael would suffice, I think, and Belial would be more likely as he'd let people run Deathwing. Sammael, maybe, but I don't know. At that point you're crowding the book with SCs, and other races would want a similar system (Add Nazdreg and Gorgutz and Bluddflag and Orkamungus to the Ork Codex, add all the Chaos Lords or DPs for Chaos etc. etc.). Sammael can be a Captain on a bike, unlocking troops like the White Scars put up with.

And it's one less Codex to be released.

Midnight


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## Scathainn (Feb 21, 2010)

I'd rather see CA be merged with C:SM than see CA get the Matt Ward treatment...


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Scathainn said:


> I'd rather see CA be merged with C:SM than see CA get the Matt Ward treatment...


Heaven forbid the Dark Angels get a Codex with a wide range of viable options.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Instead of being put into the normal Marine Codex I'd like to see the Dark Angels get an update and have their relatively few divergent traits given more emphasis.
> 
> I think an entirely unique unit should be given to the Dark Angels as well, just like the Space Wolves were given Thunderwolf Cavalry and the Blood Angels got Sanguinary Guard.
> 
> ...


i just wanted to high list some of your points Katie, since while i wish that DA are more emphasized and could keep their own codex, its just that i currently cannot see any reason why to keep it as such. This is the problem with Dark Angels, "how to make them unique on the table top?".

i mean what units/play style can the DA/successor have remarkably different than a different SM codex?

currently i can think of 3 things, all of which i think are good but im not sure if any of them can "pop".

HQ unit - interrogator chaplains: all enemy HQs count as double KPs/VPs for "search of the Fallen" (a USR of the DA i guess...or something to the effect, maybe an eldar bit to redeploy 1 unit if you go 1st after your opponent deploys?)

Ravenwing & Deathwing: we have, and will continue to, discussed.

Plasma experts USR: re-rollable armor saves? - i believe that DA have an affinity/love-affair with using plasma weapons.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Fallen said:


> i just wanted to high list some of your points Katie, since while i wish that DA are more emphasized and could keep their own codex, its just that i currently cannot see any reason why to keep it as such. This is the problem with Dark Angels, "how to make them unique on the table top?".
> 
> i mean what units/play style can the DA/successor have remarkably different than a different SM codex?


I don't know, I don't work for GW and I don't even like the Dark Angel Chapter so I haven't put a lot of thought into it. I just want them to do _something_.



> currently i can think of 3 things, all of which i think are good but im not sure if any of them can "pop".
> 
> HQ unit - interrogator chaplains: all enemy HQs count as double KPs/VPs for "search of the Fallen" (a USR of the DA i guess...or something to the effect, maybe an eldar bit to redeploy 1 unit if you go 1st after your opponent deploys?)


Interrogator Chaplains could have the same stats as the Blood Angel Reclusiarch and have access to some nasty gear to reflect their unique position within the Chapter. Maybe borrow some ideas from Codex: Witch Hunters as far as wargear goes - nasty, hurty things used to capture people and cause a lot of pain, interrogation style.



> Plasma experts USR: re-rollable armor saves? - i believe that DA have an affinity/love-affair with using plasma weapons.


Maybe more access to plasma weaponry would be fitting or just have all plasma weaponry used in a Dark Angel army be master-crafted (would allow a plasma cannon to re-roll a failed Gets Hot! roll).


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## exsulis (Jul 17, 2008)

The boys over at Bolter, and Chainsword have a section devoted to ideas for a DA Redux. And YES, there are a lot of ideas on how to make them different.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Give them Ballistic skill of 3, to reflect having to fire while wearing a full length gown and hoodie.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

In C: SM, there should be Belial with a Chapter Tactics of taking Deathwing Terminators (Normal Terminators with a few upgrades) as troops. Load up on Plasma Guns if you want them. A Captain on a Bike unlocks a Ravenwing army.
There should be one universal category for Interrogator-Chaplains and Masters of Sanctity, but with some different wargear options depending on which 'path' you go down - Master of Sanctity or Interrogator Chaplain.

Add the Emperor's Champion as a SC with the Chapter Tactics of replacing Scouts and Tactical Squads with Crusaders and we're two Codices better off already. CD and CSM in one book, SoB and GK into another, and we've removed four whole MEQ Codex releases from the schedule (No DA or BT for 2, one Inquisition book so no SoB/GK for 3 and no seperate releases for Daemons and Chaos Marines for 4). In the time we've saved we can have a new Ork book, and new Eldar book, while keeping all the new compound books updated.

Midnight


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

There's too much fluff, special characters, special rules, and units to try and cram it into the C:SM. I say keep the DA codex and just revamp it to make it more competitive. Just like everyone else.

Was this thread started because people want non-space marine codexes to come out sooner?


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## sethgabriel1990 (Sep 21, 2010)

My opinion is that all the Sm chapters should just be put in one massive codex, thus eliminating supposed 'favouritism' from GW and appeasing everyone in the process.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

sethgabriel1990 said:


> My opinion is that all the Sm chapters should just be put in one massive codex, thus eliminating supposed 'favouritism' from GW and appeasing everyone in the process.


I wouldn't go that far, but certainly all besides the heavily deviant chapters could go in a single book.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Exactly, and Dark Angels aren't a heavily deviant chapter. It even says in their Codex that they are very similar to a Codex chapter. As such, they could easily be moved into Codex: SM.

I'm not voting for them to be rolled into one because I want more xenos codices, I'd like it so they can keep my own Codex updated and I can check most other armies rules in my own Codex. Handy thing to have.

Midnight


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## Uveron (Jun 11, 2011)

It depends on what 6th ed brings, But if the changes are small.. The it could be fantastic to put all the current codex's of the SM chapters in one tome... Do the same with Grey Knights and Sisters, and Chaos Deamones and Marines.. 

But knowing GW, there will be a pile of changes which will require a whole new balance of points and units. (admitingly they could update all the lists at the same time)


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

jaysen said:


> Was this thread started because people want non-space marine codexes to come out sooner?


jaysen, the answer is "no" its just that by looking and being as unbiased as i can i just cannot see a logical reason for the DAs to keep their codex, at least not as things stand now.

this is mainly because the "best" things that the DA codex had/has were the all bike & all termie lists. the all bike list has since spread to the SM codex currently all that's left with the uniqueness that the DAs have are elite scouts & deathwing. which is in short "nothing" that could not be included into the SM codex with relative ease.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

sethgabriel1990 said:


> My opinion is that all the Sm chapters should just be put in one massive codex, thus eliminating supposed 'favouritism' from GW and appeasing everyone in the process.


And you suppose people would not whine and moan when someone fields the Sanguinor and Draigo in the same army? Or when this son of a bitch 500 page codex falls apart?


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Doelago said:


> And you suppose people would not whine and moan when someone fields the Sanguinor and Draigo in the same army? Or when this son of a bitch 500 page codex falls apart?


It wouldn't fix the problem of people thinking GW favors the SM armies either, as they would then have the biggest codex with the most options.

Combining all SM codices doesn't fix any problems. It simply trades one set of problems for another.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I do lean more to the opinion that if 3 characters were transported over to the C:SM book from CA then the army would be viable.

Azrael: Has a combat tactics that emphasises his trategic intellect. Perhaps reroll seize initiative plus hit and run to represent strategic writhdrawels.

Belial: Has a chapter tactics that allows Terminators to be taken as troops.

Sammael (Mainly because I think the current model looks awesome!): Has a chapter tactics that allows him to give all bikes in the army teleport homers and either skilled rider or scouts. Being captain on bike/land speeder allos him to take bikers as troops choices.


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## Uveron (Jun 11, 2011)

Doelago said:


> And you suppose people would not whine and moan when someone fields the Sanguinor and Draigo in the same army? Or when this son of a bitch 500 page codex falls apart?


Keep them in individual lists, just keep them in one tome. And if its 500 Pages Hard back it...


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## Uveron (Jun 11, 2011)

Wusword77 said:


> It wouldn't fix the problem of people thinking GW favors the SM armies either, as they would then have the biggest codex with the most options.
> 
> Combining all SM codices doesn't fix any problems. It simply trades one set of problems for another.



People think GW favors SM armies, Because the do! They are core to the history of the imperium and are the center of most of the products in 40K. Look at most of the branding of 40K it is Space Marines. 

If the first Codex of 6th edd was the SM Tome of DOOM! then it gets the SM products out the way, so we may see more xeno books.


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## exsulis (Jul 17, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> In C: SM, there should be Belial with a Chapter Tactics of taking Deathwing Terminators (Normal Terminators with a few upgrades) as troops. Load up on Plasma Guns if you want them. A Captain on a Bike unlocks a Ravenwing army.
> There should be one universal category for Interrogator-Chaplains and Masters of Sanctity, but with some different wargear options depending on which 'path' you go down - Master of Sanctity or Interrogator Chaplain.


Why not roll all of Chaos into the SM codex as well as they barely deserve a codex either. This all goes back to the less is more codex design.



MidnightSun said:


> Add the Emperor's Champion as a SC with the Chapter Tactics of replacing Scouts and Tactical Squads with Crusaders and we're two Codices better off already. CD and CSM in one book, SoB and GK into another, and we've removed four whole MEQ Codex releases from the schedule (No DA or BT for 2, one Inquisition book so no SoB/GK for 3 and no seperate releases for Daemons and Chaos Marines for 4). In the time we've saved we can have a new Ork book, and new Eldar book, while keeping all the new compound books updated.
> 
> Midnight


The 3rd edition SM dex did have a Emperor's Champion. Guess what, he wasn't used that often. The BT are a bit more divergent than you stated as they are the Orks of the SM line.

Considering the time GW puts into SM releases it does almost nothing to the non-human release schedule. Because GW doesn't have redo the whole line every time a SM dex comes out unlike the Xeno codexes. As to your more Eldar check out the Chapter house lawsuit thread. If said rumors are true then don't expect any Nids, or Eldar any time soon. And that isn't a Space marine line issue causing a slow down. Said thread speculation does correlate to GW's shift in product launch as in "get everything out there now." Just look to the fantasy release schedule, and what was recently released.




sethgabriel1990 said:


> My opinion is that all the Sm chapters should just be put in one massive codex, thus eliminating supposed 'favouritism' from GW and appeasing everyone in the process.


It isn't favoritism, it is constant growth and money incoming. One, or two big influxes of capital for a year isn't good, or a viable accounting system. Sorry but business 101 calls fail.



MidnightSun said:


> Exactly, and Dark Angels aren't a heavily deviant chapter. It even says in their Codex that they are very similar to a Codex chapter. As such, they could easily be moved into Codex: SM.


if you are going to quote something I'd suggest reading said codex. The important wording you left out was "appears."



Fallen said:


> jaysen, the answer is "no" its just that by looking and being as unbiased as i can i just cannot see a logical reason for the DAs to keep their codex, at least not as things stand now.


As was posted earlier the current codex's design philosophy of "less is more," and give everything to SM, left the current beta SM codex(DA) with little it could call it's own. So rules wise it true but give them a decent set of rules. It only took GW 3 1/2 years to FAQ a decent build into the DA codex.



Fallen said:


> this is mainly because the "best" things that the DA codex had/has were the all bike & all termie lists. the all bike list has since spread to the SM codex currently all that's left with the uniqueness that the DAs have are elite scouts & deathwing. which is in short "nothing" that could not be included into the SM codex with relative ease.


The 4th ed SM codex also had the DA bikes equivalent, and the Lysander Wing of 4th was more reliable than the DA codex as well.
A partially aborted ill-thought out, and incomplete beta codex with zero play testing is not a very good reason to want it rolled into another codex. The Blood Angels' PDF codex was better then the Printed DA codex.




Uveron said:


> People think GW favors SM armies, Because the do! They are core to the history of the imperium and are the center of most of the products in 40K. Look at most of the branding of 40K it is Space Marines.
> 
> If the first Codex of 6th edd was the SM Tome of DOOM! then it gets the SM products out the way, so we may see more xeno books.


It isn't favoritism, and more of a easy to shove into an open release window because the xenos codex/range wasn't done in time.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

*1st Legion Astartes*



Fallen said:


> jaysen, the answer is "no" its just that by looking and being as unbiased as i can i just cannot see a logical reason for the DAs to keep their codex, at least not as things stand now.
> 
> this is mainly because the "best" things that the DA codex had/has were the all bike & all termie lists. the all bike list has since spread to the SM codex currently all that's left with the uniqueness that the DAs have are elite scouts & deathwing. which is in short "nothing" that could not be included into the SM codex with relative ease.


Right, and I don't see a reason to have Necrons or Tau, but I doubt GW would listen to me, :wink:. 

I just don't understand why any true fans of the hobby would vote to minimalize the fluff and uniqueness of the 1st Legion? What is the point of losing a codex? What would be the benefit, except to take a codex out of the publishing rotation and thus speed up the process. But, we all know that GW doesn't strictly adhere to an evenly paced rotation for codices. The Necrons haven't been updated because they are not a popular army and aren't profitable for the company. When they invest money into creating new models and books, they must turn a profit on them. Space Marine models and books turn profits.

So, I believe it would be a loss for the game as a whole and a loss for the company, in terms of profits, to do away with the Dark Angels codex. It would be a big mistake and the game would be less for it.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Uveron said:


> People think GW favors SM armies, Because the do! They are core to the history of the imperium and are the center of most of the products in 40K. Look at most of the branding of 40K it is Space Marines.
> 
> If the first Codex of 6th edd was the SM Tome of DOOM! then it gets the SM products out the way, so we may see more xeno books.


I've got an idea.... They should role all the Xenos into a single book. Codex Xenos. It could have the Tau, Necron, Tyranid, Orks, Eldar, and Dark Eldar. Then, GW could update them all at once and there wouldn't be any more of this pathetic Necron and Tau whining.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Agree with the OP, actually been thinking this since 2nd edition, when they globbed the BA and DA into the "Angels of Death" codex, I haven't seen something as contrived for ages.. I remember thinking back then "why do these generic space marines have their own spot in this Blood Angels codex?"

And even though I've been (and still have the minis) a BT player in the past I'd like them to get rolled into C:SM as well.


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## Caratacos (Aug 26, 2008)

jaysen said:


> I've got an idea.... They should role all the Xenos into a single book. Codex Xenos. It could have the Tau, Necron, Tyranid, Orks, Eldar, and Dark Eldar. Then, GW could update them all at once and there wouldn't be any more of this pathetic Necron and Tau whining.


Mmm... generic xenos. Like the generic daemons in codex chaos space marines. And then they can have special characters that give them some special varieties. Like Karandras gives your generic xenos infiltrate and +1 attack. Asurmen could let your generic xenos shoot twice with their generic guns. MAybe they can have BS+1 as well, giving them a BS of 4. Since generic xenos have 3 in all stats except wounds: 1, Attacks: 1, and Leadership: 7. Just like a generic human.

Generic human... hmm... maybe we could have one codex with everything in. Codex Generics. So a Space Marine would be a generic humanoid... no, generic being... with some upgrades.

No really. I see no point in taking away any codex at all. I would actually like to see the return of the Squats, Harlequins (as their own army), Craftworld Eldar, the varieties of Orks (Khorne Stormboyz anyone?) and Chaos Space Marine Legion codices.

There is so much to the Dark Angels that their is a shame that they does not stand out more than they do. A lot of what was unique to them has been assimilated into the Codex Space Marines, just like lots of Harlequin stuff was assimilated into the previous Dark Eldar codex.

I agree with the previous ideas of for example having master crafted plasma weapons. They should have Deathwing Elders, kind of like the Chosen Terminator Aspiring Champions. I could go on for long.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

I like the idea of having generic Xenos. They could even have a generic Xenos boxset that comes with 10 generic "vanilla" aliens. Then you have to purchase a $20 conversion spru to make your guys into a specific xenos specialist.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

Codex Chaos 2nd Edition was fine. It had CSM, Daemon Princes and special rules for many of the legions.

I don't see why the same can't be done with Space Marines. 

Have a vanilla army set then a chapter specific section for each of the big 9 with maybe a couple of pages of special characters and special rules for the chapter (e.g. Dark Angels and their successors may take plasma weapons for lower point costs and/or more terminators and/or more bikes as a trade off for a negative attribute).

I know some people have mocked the idea of a xenos codex, why not combine some?

Combine all Eldar (not necessarily the rules but all in one book - Eldar, Craftword and DE). Combine Tau and Necron. Have Ork on their own, but with more variation. Combine Chaos, Chaos Daemons and Lost and the Damned (or some IG variant).


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## Uveron (Jun 11, 2011)

jaysen said:


> I've got an idea.... They should role all the Xenos into a single book. Codex Xenos. It could have the Tau, Necron, Tyranid, Orks, Eldar, and Dark Eldar. Then, GW could update them all at once and there wouldn't be any more of this pathetic Necron and Tau whining.


Nah... What GW should do after that is make Codex Chaos, and have a book with a pile of army lists in.. 

CSM, Lost and Dammed, deomens, 

The other groups that share units and background... Codex Impiral Guard , have have small changes to the lists for the key amys out there, may be call it Codex Imperials and put in the inquistors and the sisters as well. The idear would be that in a epoc game, these forces normaly fight together. 

Not sure about Necrons/Orks and the Eldar they are a bit more odd..


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## Gluttoniser (Aug 14, 2010)

Durandal said:


> Have Ward write the next codex, so it wont be a crock of shit. Ill weep tears for the DA if Cruddace writes the book, they were my first marine army.


haha, oh wow


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Screw the Smurfs.

Dark Angels kick arse.

They are above the rest of the Space Marine Scum.

I have added Fallen Dark Angels into the Son's of Achaylus led by Cphyer.

They stay with a seperate Codex.


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