# Spyders: They don't die



## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

The title says most of it.

3 spyders. One with prism. One with claw.

Unit cost: 175 points.

You get 9 wounds at 3+ and T6.

Let me repeat that. 9 wounds. 3+. T6. Toss in 7 MC attacks at S6, resistance to psyker powers, fearless, and LD10, and its amazing. True, its I2, and WS3, but you don't need much more than that.


Math hammer: Assuming the other model(s)= WS4, S4.

If you can't ignore its armor, to kill a single spyder, you need to inflict 9 wounds.

9/3=3 unsaved.

To inflict 9 wounds against t6, you need 54 hits, since you wound on 6.

54/6=9

To achieve 54 hits, if you are rolling 3+ to hit, you need 81 attacks.

(81/3)2=54

To kill all three, you need 243 attacks.



I don't say these kinds of things without testing them. Because you equip each one differently you can spread wounds around. Cheap? Yes. But every other army on the planet does it. I see no problem with it.

What this means in non-math is that my Spyders are invincible. Unless the enemy has a power fist, these things tear through enemy units without even a scuffed paint job- Even if every single enemy model has a power weapon, they still need a whopping 81 attacks to kill all three. Spyders are the unsung heroes of the new codex, and I think their lack of a model, and some other, very attractive, heavy choices have sort of shadowed them. Everyone's assumption that they are just scarab factories is, from my experience, a very flawed viewpoint and one that people will discover to be contrary soon.

I'll post a more in depth article later. I have to do some more playtesting with them to make sure all of my theories and strategems involving them will actually work.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

See this is why we have Nemesis weapons and instant death.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Which is about the only thing that will actually kill these in a timely manner.

Of course, I could also reply with "Thats why I have S9 AP1 large blast weapons" but we could go back and forth like that all day.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

True enough mate, either way 243 attacks is a pretty tough ask even for my Ubermen.

I too don't see wound allocation as cheap, more like smart as a wounded guy would retire and let the others take some punishment rather than just stand there and take it all.


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## Creator of Chaos (Feb 8, 2012)

I like your idea for wound allocation and If I had more spyders I would do that. But I would probably go 2 Particle beamers then claw, the Gloom as I like my spyders being able to shoot and help deal damage against hoards
So

Particle Spypder
Particle and Gloom spyder
Claw spyder

now the spyders are resiliant and shooty XD. Expensive yes but 9 wounds, T6, monstourous creature with S6 blasts are nothing to scoff at


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

How do you model these guys by the way? I've not seen any mini for them in the GW range.


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## Sothot (Jul 22, 2011)

Unless your opponent is Dark Eldar... They've completely destroyed my ability to play monstrous creatures ala spyders and c'tan.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Ah yes, the magical 10000 poisoned weapons in an army shenanigans. Those are indeed a bitch.

And I still have the old spyders.


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## Sothot (Jul 22, 2011)

Old Spyders and Wraiths for the win  I almost feel a little guilty when the new Necron players are stuck converting for the models that were perfectly fine before got removed... Almost 
That's the toughest part of having a regular DE player though, is my high toughness counts for nothing. Even my AV13 gets knocked down to 12 by the lances that everything and their dog carries. It's a tough go, that's for sure.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

Missiles still go through armor *checks*

Missiles still require to wound on a 2+ *checks*

missiles launchers still awesome *checks*

*has no fear, MLs still pure win*


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Hey, I'm not saying that absolutely nothing you do will kill them. They aren't paladins. But they are damn tough, and if they are stuck in, you can't shoot them with missiles. Or anything else for that matter.

And you can't argue that you aren't getting a hell of a lot out of them for a paltry 175 points.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

I always ran Spyders back in the old codex (6 of them to be precise) and will continue to do so. Seeing that they had not been nerfed was a pleasurable surprise. Though i do miss the ability to spit out one scarab swarm and so giving each spyder 6 wounds at toughness 6 and 3+ save thanks to abuse of mixed unit rules.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

You still can do mixed unit shenanigans. They can all get different wargear loadouts. I prefer one vanilla, one claw, one prism and claw. That gives you 8 attacks, 11 on the charge, and a 9 wound MC unit that you can spread wounds through.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

How are you getting them into close combat, may I ask? They are certainly bargain monsters, and I'm not denying their efficiency and power, but itf they're stuck moving 6" a turn then that's quite a big weakness.

Midnight


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Fallen said:


> Missiles still go through armor *checks*
> 
> Missiles still require to wound on a 2+ *checks*
> 
> ...


Yup, missiles are pretty good anti-MC weapons in most cases... but if my spyders draw a few then that's a lot of shots redirected from my barges. At 5-6 shots to kill a spyder thats a lot of AT that could have been blasting other things about.

Personally I run a couple of spyders with particle blasters: they are my catch all unit. They buff up my unit of scarabs for a turn or two, act as a counter-assault unit and blast hoardes to pieces (I was having trouble, until I added 7 particle blasters to my army- 2 on spyders and 5 tomb blades). Of course they still fill the old role of jumping on damaged vehicles and pulling them apart (which with a heavy reliance on low S gauss and tesla destructors is a very helpful role).

Never really been tempted by gloom, I have big issues with psychic powers but they would either be enemy buffs (such as fortune) or could just target units away from my spyders. I don't feel its worth taking.
I found the claw pretty useful, but don't have room for it my current army. My spyders also tend to be one of the first things to die... for some reason people hate that they can buff up my scarabs, ignoring the fact that by the time they've killed my spyders my scarabs are normally out of range anyway (I normally get 2 turns extra scarabs... but 4 bases takes my unit of 5 from fairly insignificant to lethal).


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I find they make great Stalker escorts. They have an excellent symbiosis going with them. They can hide behind the stalker to get cover, and if anything assaults the stalker (Which an annoyingly increasing number of people do to tie them down) they can hop out and lay down the law. If the Stalker is the recipient of a lot of shooting, and it gets immobilized or has its _only weapon_ destroyed, a spyder with a claw can fix it and get it back in the game. I don't generally use them as scarab factories, though I do see the merit in the plan. The problem is I try to get the scarabs stuck in as soon as possible, and I target transports if I can to force their contents to walk. They usually get shot to death and assaulted very quickly, meaning no unit of scarabs to attach the new ones to. Spyders are awesome but fail to the carnifex pitfall- Mainly, they have to walk around. In my opinion, the particle guns are too expensive and unreliable to put on a BS3 model. Are they really that effective?

I admit. Running 8 bases plus three spyders all cranking out scarabs... Its a scary prospect.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

MidnightSun said:


> How are you getting them into close combat, may I ask? They are certainly bargain monsters, and I'm not denying their efficiency and power, but itf they're stuck moving 6" a turn then that's quite a big weakness.
> 
> Midnight


They can run aswell, which while not always dependable is useful. They're also quite small as so easy to find cover with. Besides they can often fill a useful role loitering around midfield objectives or as forward speed bumps for the rest of your army. 

I will admit though that's it's harder to choose them now that we have other viable heavy support choices like those wonderful annihilation barges (flat out the best heavy support option, and one of the better units in the book imo).


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Rems said:


> They can run aswell, which while not always dependable is useful. They're also quite small as so easy to find cover with. Besides they can often fill a useful role loitering around midfield objectives or as forward speed bumps for the rest of your army.
> 
> I will admit though that's it's harder to choose them now that we have other viable heavy support choices like those wonderful annihilation barges (flat out the best heavy support option, and one of the better units in the book imo).


They are less "speed bumps" than "barricades". Anything they manage to get stuck in with is going to have a hell of a time, and anything shooting at them better have some way to cause instant death, have high S, and be AP3-.

I scored 12 hits with an annihilation barge once, and its not all that uncommon to score 6-10. They really are awesome.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

edited, never mind.


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## Lord Azune (Nov 12, 2011)

Rems, flat out best? Have you fielded the doomsday cannon? I tell ya, it's pretty pimp. As is the monolith... Still.


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## Tyreal Ardeus (Mar 28, 2012)

Fallen said:


> Missiles still go through armor *checks*
> 
> Missiles still require to wound on a 2+ *checks*
> 
> ...


Thoroughly enjoyed that, thank ye mate. :laugh:

Anyways yeah it does seem pretty underrated, and nasty at that. Most armies that see that comin' towards them are about to have problems and know it. Just keep in mind that the same things that'll take down a carnifex, will take down a spyder. It's, on a base level, a group of 3 carnifexes stomping towards you.

Except now they're made of metal...

And create scarab bases...

... And float...

But anyways yeah, missile launchers, poisoned weapons, some well-placed/allocated-to-survive fists/klaws and other monstrous creatures *cough* WRAITHLORD *cough*. Hammernators will still cause them serious problems, still wounding on 2s, ignoring the armor save, and their own 3++ keeping them pretty well alive. Lastly some anti-tank fire can still cause them problems too, taking hits from lascannons and such still hurts just as much as ever. 

Most of this is probably obvious, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyways. More than things can kill it, thing's _can't_ kill it. And when they get into a combat with something, whelp, prepare to be removed from the table. Definitely something to look into. 

And with the new Triach Stalker, Doomscythe, Wraith and Spyder models all rumored to come out this month or the next, the Necrons will have all the cheese they can handle! :so_happy:


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## Lord Azune (Nov 12, 2011)

Actually, it's way better than a trio of fexs. Fexs are required to have the same gear loadout whereas our Spyders are not. You'll see way more survival from our Spyders due to the wound allocation before they start to falter and drop.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Lord Azune said:


> Actually, it's way better than a trio of fexs. Fexs are required to have the same gear loadout whereas our Spyders are not. You'll see way more survival from our Spyders due to the wound allocation before they start to falter and drop.


That's because Nid MC's are somehow even worse than useless, especially Carnifexes. Robbin really screwed over nidzilla


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## Lord Azune (Nov 12, 2011)

I honestly hope my Nids get a redo over 6th Ed... I want them to go back to the 4th ed biomorph system.. I want full customizability of my gaunts again!


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