# Criteria for Being Revived by a Chaos God?



## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

After Argel Tal was killed by Erebus, why wouldn't the gods revive him? Surely he is a great asset, being the leader and one of the first of the Gal Vorbak. He was extremely gifted in combat and was a very devout worshiper if I remember correctly. 

What makes Lucius any more worthy of revival than Argel Tal? Is it because Argel Tal does not worship any one specific god?


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

Perhaps he simply wasnt interesting, for the gods i mean, was he not also killed by a special blade?
by interesting i mean, lucius for instance absolutely embodied everything it means to worship slaanesh, Kharn is a paragon of what it means to be a devotee of Khorne and Ahriman is an enigma, they are also symbolic, Ahriman for instance doing to Magnus what magnus did to his father, whereas Argel Tal is far less so, in addition, being revived by all 4 gods is by far more difficult than being revived by any single one


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

The Chaos Gods are capricious. If they wanted to simply shun Erebus, they would revive him regardless of the method used to kill him.

Erebus did state that in his visions it was Argel Tal who, consistently, led to the defeat of the Heresy. That and Argel Tal wasn't very favorable towards the gods. He served them not out of devotion but out of resignation -- you cannot change the truth of all things, so you might as well make the best of it.

That and the Dark Gods clearly favor Erebus. Despite even Lorgar, in my opinion, wanting him dead they have kept him alive over the past 10,000 years. He is utterly devoted to them.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Also, Argel Tal is fated to die. The daemon repeatedly tells him how he dies, it wouldn't make sense to have him survive his fated end.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

MEQinc said:


> Also, Argel Tal is fated to die. The daemon repeatedly tells him how he dies, it wouldn't make sense to have him survive his fated end.


It's a demon it speaks in half truths and every half truth it speaks there are 1000 more lies that spew from it's mouth.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

They have to be an entertaining asset as well, just look at the gig Lucius the Eternal got going.


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## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

I found Argel Tal very entertaining. My favorite traitor marine aside from Kharn, who are in fact the only traitors I actually like aside from the sniper from the Word Bearers who was in Vulkan Lives and Unremembered Empire. Can't remember his name.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

locustgate said:


> It's a demon it speaks in half truths and every half truth it speaks there are 1000 more lies that spew from it's mouth.


Though, of course, it seems that the daemon (Ingethel and Raum) spoke the truth. Argel Tal did die _in the shadow of great wings_...

Daemons do not always lie, that's just Imperial propaganda. :laugh: 

They will mostly act in ways for their own selfish desires, and they will certainly lie to achieve their own goals (not much different to humans there then!) - but they are fully capable of telling the truth... Realistically, the word of a daemon is just as valuable as the word of a man - there may be different incentives and motives, but both will readily lie or twist the truth for their own ends. Just as both will readily tell the truth for their own ends.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Though, of course, it seems that the daemon (Ingethel and Raum) spoke the truth. Argel Tal did die _in the shadow of great wings_...
> 
> Daemons do not always lie, that's just Imperial propaganda. :laugh:


Agree to disagree.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> They will mostly act in ways for their own selfish desires, and they will certainly lie to achieve their own goals (not much different to humans there then!) - but they are fully capable of telling the truth... Realistically, the word of a daemon is just as valuable as the word of a man - there may be different incentives and motives, but both will readily lie or twist the truth for their own ends. Just as both will readily tell the truth for their own ends.


I never said humans don't lie for every truth a humans says they say 1000 lies.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

locustgate said:


> I never said humans don't lie for every truth a humans says they say 1000 lies.


What's the reasoning behind that?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> What's the reasoning behind that?


.........Have you ever talked to a human?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

locustgate said:


> .........Have you ever talked to a human?


...Have you ever talked to a daemon? :laugh:


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## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

locustgate said:


> I never said humans don't lie for every truth a humans says they say 1000 lies.


1,000 lies it quite a lot... I don't think it is quite that high. 

And even considering the fact that demons lie, it was very concerned about self-preservation. The demon knew that Erebus was going to betray them and it tried hard to get Argel Tal to kill Erebus first.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> ...Have you ever talked to a daemon? :laugh:


....Maybe.....I'm not sure if it's real or just some voice....it's normal for people to hear voices right?


:laugh:


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Demons will also tell you the truth when they know you won't believe them. They're fun like that.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Revival by a Chaos god is like receiving a gift from a Chaos god. You have no say in it, it's completely up to them and it isn't always a good thing.


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## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Revival by a Chaos god is like receiving a gift from a Chaos god. You have no say in it, it's completely up to them and it isn't always a good thing.


Don't they have a say in it though? Like Abaddon, he is rejecting becoming a daemon prince isn't he?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

SoL Berzerker said:


> Don't they have a say in it though? Like Abaddon, he is rejecting becoming a daemon prince isn't he?


The last I heard the gods never offered it to him, some minor demon may of.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

I'm not sure the Dark Gods give you the option of becoming a Daemon Prince. It believe they make the decision on their whims and by that point its either Spawn or Prince. But maybe Abaddon is powerful enough to resist becoming too powerful? Lol.


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## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

I'm fairly certain that people have to let the demons into their minds and bodies. After Fulgrim killed Ferrus Manus, the daemon in the Laer blade said "Then leave yourself open to me and I will put an end to it all." Then it goes on to say "The barriers in Fulgrim's mind dropped as he felt the elation of a creature older than time as it poured into the void that is his soul."

Fulgrim essentially had to give the daemon permission to possess his body.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

SoL Berzerker said:


> Fulgrim essentially had to give the daemon permission to possess his body.


Possession and ascension are two very different things. Daemon Princedom is not achieved by granting a daemon into your body.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

BlackGuard said:


> I'm not sure the Dark Gods give you the option of becoming a Daemon Prince. It believe they make the decision on their whims and by that point its either Spawn or Prince. But maybe Abaddon is powerful enough to resist becoming too powerful? Lol.


The gods can heap 'gifts' on you till you have the choice of being a spawn or dp. The chaos gods lose a powerful pawn by turning Abaddon into a dp, remember dps can only exists outside of the warp/warpstorm (i.e. the eye) for a short time. So if the gods make Abaddon a dp they lose a front line commander and gain yet another behind the scenes one.


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## Protoss119 (Aug 8, 2010)

MEQinc said:


> Possession and ascension are two very different things. Daemon Princedom is not achieved by granting a daemon into your body.


Unless your name is Ax'senaea the Thrice-Possessed, who let three different Keepers of Secrets into her body. Granted, she did so one at a time, and crushed all three with her indomitable force of will, and was on her way to a fourth when Slaanesh granted her daemonhood, so her becoming a Daemon Princess was still not a direct result of daemonic possession. (_Black Crusade: Core Rulebook_, pg. 359)


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Protoss119 said:


> Unless your name is Ax'senaea the Thrice-Possessed, who let three different Keepers of Secrets into her body. Granted, she did so one at a time, and crushed all three with her indomitable force of will, and was on her way to a fourth when Slaanesh granted her daemonhood, so her becoming a Daemon Princess was still not a direct result of daemonic possession. (_Black Crusade: Core Rulebook_, pg. 359)


Thanks - I really enjoyed that quote.

Given that each KoS is a part of slaanesh and she'd already munched three, what would have happened if she carried on?
Could she eventually have eaten slaanesh (in bite size chunks)?


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

In Daemon World theres another character, whoses name eludes me. But whom is featured on the cover, whom was to be a slaaneshi daemon's plaything. But her will was too strong and the daemon ended making a deal with her.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Gret79 said:


> Given that each KoS is a part of slaanesh and she'd already munched three, what would have happened if she carried on?
> Could she eventually have eaten slaanesh (in bite size chunks)?


Daemons don't really die, she may have "crushed" those possessing her but they didn't actually disappear and thus wouldn't have weakened Slaanesh itself.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

MEQinc said:


> Daemons don't really die, she may have "crushed" those possessing her but they didn't actually disappear and thus wouldn't have weakened Slaanesh itself.


I haven't read the book but did she gain anything, other than bragging rights, when she 'crushed' the demons?


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## Nacho libre (Feb 23, 2013)

If I remember correctly his faith in chaos was half and half. The only reason he continued to follow chaos was because lorgar was.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

You can't apply logic on the Gods from a human perspective! Hence there are never and specifik reason why certain characters return, with the exception of the ones CotE gave earlier. Even those champions will be abadoned sooner or later.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

I've only read a few of the books (first 3 and _Betrayer_), but based on that, it almost seems like the gods had a specific plan involving Erebus, Argel Tal, and Kharn. Even if Argel Tal was partially possessed, Erebus obviously had their favor and Kharn survived some pretty crazy shit, and we already know that Kharn survives the Horus Heresy to become chosen of Khorne. 

*SPOILERZ BELOW* 








The thing that finally put Kharn over the edge seemed to be Argel Tal's death. Then, all of a sudden, the guy who didn't give a shit about fighting in the arena challenges Erebus to _sanguis extremis_. Was it just revenge, or had Kharn finally been molded into the berserker that Khorne had been wishlisting the whole time? Maybe not the type of madman he turns into at Skalathrax, but he probably isn't the same World Eater that tried to hold it all together. Angron is a demon now, so how is that dynamic going to work?

If they don't revisit him during the novels (which they hopefully do during the Siege of Terra), it appears that past this point he's gone to the nails and in service to Khorne. I just wonder when he actually learns who/what Khorne is. By the time the 41st Millenium rolls around, he's covered in the iconography, but it probably didn't take 10,000 years...

It was pretty badass when Erebus was getting ripped apart. He couldn't believe what was happening, and barely managed to teleport away. Gah!


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