# Renegade but Loyal Chapters?



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

So in one of my frequent regiging of my "to do" list where I rearrange minis from one force to the other I came across 3 Marines spare that I thought I would use in my Radical =I= force that has about 3 minis painted and another 15 waiting in parts, it's turning into a bit of a "Need a home for cool minis" type deal. Anyway due to the =I= in charge being a Radical it means that the Marines couldn't be from a chapter that is "loyal to the accepted rules of engagement" shall we say. I'd like to have at least two different chapters represented maybe have each from a different one. This doesn't leave many chapters, the options being:

- Lost or broken chapters where there aren't many/if any survivors and as such the marines are forced to operate outside the accepted.
- The Mentor Legion: Not known for working with Radical =I='s but given their old fluff it wouldn't be a stretch I don't think especially seeing as this =I= in particular isn't full blown open Radical. That and I've already got one in one of my other forces so I'd like to avoid them.
- DIY Chapter: This is the fall back option but one I would quite like to avoid for all three at least.
- Black Shields - Seems a bit of a cop out, maybe one if I am really desperate, it'd be a toss up between this and DIY.
- Renegade Chapters. This is the option I am most interested in but during my brief look last night finding many examples is tricky:

Relictors are a must obviously seeing as they got the hell bitch slapped out of them by the Grey Knights after a rival Radical got pissy at them for half inching a deamon weapon so that's one. The only other one I could really find was the Knights of Blood, a BA second founding but the color scheme really doesn't appeal to me. The other option is the Soul Drinkers but not really a huge fan of them and a lot has been written on them (several novels worth) so there isn't much room to use them. 

Anybody know of any others?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Renegade chapters
Soul Drinkers, note I have only read the 1st 3 books
Knights of Blood

Broken:
Legion of the Damned, sort of
Crimson Castelians, Split into loyal and renegade
Tiger Claws, most have turned to Red Corsairs but you could have a few still loyal
Venom Thorns, only 1 possible alive, after fighting and being reduced to about 100 sm a IF Chaplin arrived and started killing them all, he left the planet with 1 round out of 100.


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## whittsy (Feb 8, 2013)

Jacobite said:


> This doesn't leave many chapters, the options being:
> 
> - Lost or broken chapters where there aren't many/if any survivors and as such the marines are forced to operate outside the accepted.


May seem a little cliche Jac, but seeing as this week/month is all "CRIMSON SLAUGHTER" you could do them as the Crimson Sabres. As i'm currently reading in the supplement, a few companies of marines detached from Kranon and his Slaughterers when he decided to go rogue because they were still loyal to the Emperor, even though the =I= had branded them excommunication. Further reading indicates that some of the loyal chapters have seen the Crimson Sabres fighting the enemies of the Imperium then bugging the hell out before the Loyalists kick their arses. Could be interesting?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

locustgate said:


> Broken:
> Legion of the Damned, sort of - Problematic due to their way of showing up where they are needed by unknown means, etc
> Crimson Castelians, Split into loyal and renegade - Haven't heard of them, will look into them, thanks!
> Tiger Claws, most have turned to Red Corsairs but you could have a few still loyal Would prefer to stay away from them due to their proximity to the Badab War and how it's been plotted out what happens to them.
> Venom Thorns, only 1 possible alive, after fighting and being reduced to about 100 sm a IF Chaplin arrived and started killing them all, he left the planet with 1 round out of 100. Another chapter I haven't heard of, thanks I will look into these as well.


Thanks locast, I will look into both of those, I hadn't heard of either of them.



whittsy said:


> May seem a little cliche Jac, but seeing as this week/month is all "CRIMSON SLAUGHTER" you could do them as the Crimson Sabres. As I'm currently reading in the supplement, a few companies of marines detached from Kranon and his Slaughterers when he decided to go rogue because they were still loyal to the Emperor, even though the =I= had branded them excommunication. Further reading indicates that some of the loyal chapters have seen the Crimson Sabres fighting the enemies of the Imperium then bugging the hell out before the Loyalists kick their arses. Could be interesting?


I saw the Crimson Sabres and got excited and then saw what they became - GW's latest suppliment for Chaos instead of doing a supplement on a Chapter who fucking needs it! So ah yeah despite them fitting with what I want I won't be touching them. I'd rather not support that retarded fucking decision. Could I be considered as being childish? Yes but I'm fine with it. Thanks for your response though!


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## whittsy (Feb 8, 2013)

Jacobite said:


> saw the Crimson Sabres and got excited and then saw what they became - GW's latest suppliment for Chaos instead of doing a supplement on a Chapter who fucking needs it! So ah yeah despite them fitting with what I want I won't be touching them. I'd rather not support that retarded fucking decision. Could I be considered as being childish? Yes but I'm fine with it. Thanks for your response though!


I know what you mean, I've only bought the supp for the items, an item that gives a 2+ armour save alone sold me on it. Sick of my bad arse lords being undone by piss weak weapons because Chaos haven't thought of "artificer armour" yet... I'm going to paint up some of my unpainted guys as Slaanesh though and have them as my "crimson slaughter" but I'm going to come up with my own renegade chapter because the whole CS supplement thing is pointless. Just the items are needed...


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## Loki1416 (Apr 20, 2010)

Black Dragons, Fire Hawks, Flame Falcons, Lamenters, Sons of Antaeus. 
The Black Dragons are constantly under the Inquisitorial eye because of their odd bone growths. Flame falcons were declared Excommunicate Traitoris and almost completely wiped out, but some still pop up from time to time, so these would be a good choice.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

whittsy said:


> I know what you mean, I've only bought the supp for the items, an item that gives a 2+ armour save alone sold me on it. Sick of my bad arse lords being undone by piss weak weapons because Chaos haven't thought of "artificer armour" yet... I'm going to paint up some of my unpainted guys as Slaanesh though and have them as my "crimson slaughter" but I'm going to come up with my own renegade chapter because the whole CS supplement thing is pointless. Just the items are needed...


Haha a man after my own heart! I too have a habit of going "Don't give a shit what the codex says these rules are, I'm using them as this because it actually makes sense". 



Loki1416 said:


> Black Dragons, Fire Hawks, Flame Falcons, Lamenters, Sons of Antaeus.
> The Black Dragons are constantly under the Inquisitorial eye because of their odd bone growths. Flame falcons were declared Excommunicate Traitoris and almost completely wiped out, but some still pop up from time to time, so these would be a good choice.


- Black Dragons would work well actually, first of all their color scheme is dark, nice opportunity for conversions with it and they have "relations" with the =I= as it were.
- Fire Hawks - Didn't think they were Renegade seeing as they fought on the side of the Imperium during the Badab War
- Flame Falcons - I LOVE to do a marine from them but converting a marine that is on fire is so far out of my skill range it's not funny.
- Lamentors - Already painted a squad of them (never again) and they are loyalist. The whole Badab thing was a giant clusterfuck of honor etc
- Sons of Antaeus - They could also work well, a really good opportunity for a conversion.

I just remembered about the Fallen as well. Could easily see a recanted Fallen working with a Radical =I= in return for his support evading the DA. So options at the moment:

- Relictor
- Fallen Dark Angel
- Black Dragon
- Son of Antaeus

Haha 4 options, pick 3. Would be interesting task doing the Fallen as the project may or may not involve True Scale and a Fallen would be wearing Heresy era armor.... How far away are the Dark Angels away from getting from FW HH love?


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Hmm, maybe the flame falcons or the marines malevolent?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Flame Falcons are kind of out because I don't have the skill to sculpt realistic flames coming off the armour and while Marines Malevolent are certainly brutal and deserving of =I= censure they are also a bit bright color schemewise. Yellow is pretty much the one color I'd like to stay away from. Thanks for your input though Kreuger


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Do you think it would make sense for one or more Deathwatch member(s) to be assigned to an Inquisitor, especially one working on the fringes of inquisitorial protocols? Black paint with minimal enhancements?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I did consider them however the =I= in question is Ordo Malleus rather than Xenos, and strongly so, kind of rules out Deathwatch sadly.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Although the Soul Drinkers is mostly destroyed as per the last book, they were 100% the best thing to a loyal renegade chapter out there in fluff. 

Their color scheme, and unique opportunities for custom characters (due to the mutations) make them a awesome chapter to do in miniatures.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

A recanted Fallen would be very good, or how about an Alpha Legionaire a million and one ways to imagine why he would knocking about with a radical =I=


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Warlock in Training said:


> Although the Soul Drinkers is mostly destroyed as per the last book, they were 100% the best thing to a loyal renegade chapter out there in fluff.
> 
> Their color scheme, and unique opportunities for custom characters (due to the mutations) make them a awesome chapter to do in miniatures.


I haven't read the Soul Drinkers books and I'm not that keen to start, SM novels aren't really my thing so I wouldn't want to touch them just because I don't know the ins and outs of the fluff.



Oldman78 said:


> A recanted Fallen would be very good, or how about an Alpha Legionaire a million and one ways to imagine why he would knocking about with a radical =I=


Yeah I'm pretty sold on the recanted Fallen idea. I'd love to have a AL but a certain BL libby author has already got that angle covered.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> I haven't read the Soul Drinkers books and I'm not that keen to start, SM novels aren't really my thing so I wouldn't want to touch them just because I don't know the ins and outs of the fluff.


You folks skip around the Soul Drinkers like they matter nothing to this very relevant question. Indeed the Soul Drinkers are a prime exmaple, if not THE prime example, of a Space Marine Chapter that went rogue in the service to the Emporer. Unlike many other chapters that eventually, or directly, fell into the waiting arms of Choas the Soul Drinkers stayed loyal to the Emporer's light; even if they forsaked the Imperium as a organization.

Their Chapter Master, Sarpeon, managed to lead them for quite some time in service to the Emporer after he declared his chapter seperate from the Imperium. This was mainly due to the fact that the Mechanicus, the bastards they are, tried to screw them for a relic that clearly belonged to the Chapter. Sadly they eventually meet their end at the hands of the Imperial Fists; ironically when they had just smashed a Tzeetch Daemonic Prince into Oblivion.

Now tell me that's not an interesting read. Trust me Jacobite....it is worth your time. k:


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> Indeed the Soul Drinkers are a prime exmaple, if not THE prime example, of a Space Marine Chapter that went rogue in the service to the Emporer


Not to get who-has-a-sadder-fall (which I think the Thousand Sons and possibly the Alpha Legion may win out), but I think the Astral Claws fall was more interesting.

Plus the Soul Drinkers were written by Ben Counter. I have never found his work very...good. In terms of fitting with fluff and his writing style.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

hailene said:


> Not to get who-has-a-sadder-fall (which I think the Thousand Sons and possibly the Alpha Legion may win out), but I think the Astral Claws fall was more interesting.
> 
> Plus the Soul Drinkers were written by Ben Counter. I have never found his work very...good. In terms of fitting with fluff and his writing style.


Astral Claws fall was one of the genuine intention to do good paired with extreme arrogance and the inability to take a telling off and admit when they broke the rules. The Administration in turn were being fucktards about the whole thing. It was only in the later days that the rot really began to take affect, before hand they were not any more traitorous than the Flesh Tearers, Minotaurs or Carchardons. Personally I find the Relictors "fall" from grace the most interesting seeing as it's one Radical (Cyarro) screwing over another group of Radicals (the Relictors) to get what he wants and using Puritans (the Grey Knights) to do the job for him.


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## GiftofChaos1234 (Jan 27, 2009)

What about the odd marine who was on secondment to the Deathwatch when his chapter was destroyed? Said marine's time with the DW is up, what is he going to do? He get's a message from your curious =I= dude and he has something to do in the name of the Emperor once again!

So basically you could use a marine from ANY destroyed chapter or hell even a renegade chapter with one marine who didnt turn because he hadn't been with them for a damn long time.

Just a thought


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

hailene said:


> but I think the Astral Claws fall was more interesting.


I must concur though I'm sorry you don't like Ben's writing. I found it quite invigorating.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Third company of the Avenging Sons chapter turned Renegade.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

GiftofChaos1234 said:


> What about the odd marine who was on secondment to the Deathwatch when his chapter was destroyed? Said marine's time with the DW is up, what is he going to do? He get's a message from your curious =I= dude and he has something to do in the name of the Emperor once again!
> 
> So basically you could use a marine from ANY destroyed chapter or hell even a renegade chapter with one marine who didnt turn because he hadn't been with them for a damn long time.
> 
> Just a thought


I did consider Deathwatch but the =I= in question is Xianthite Mallus rather than Xenos so him having contacts within the Deathwatch is pretty dam slim.



Words_of_Truth said:


> Third company of the Avenging Sons chapter turned Renegade.


They got all wiped out once they turned to chaos didn't they?


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Jacobite said:


> I did consider Deathwatch but the =I= in question is Xianthite Mallus rather than Xenos so him having contacts within the Deathwatch is pretty dam slim.
> 
> 
> 
> They got all wiped out once they turned to chaos didn't they?


I don't believe so, last thing I read about them was they handed over the governor as a bargain to the invading forces before heading for the eye of terror.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> I did consider Deathwatch but the =I= in question is Xianthite Mallus rather than Xenos so him having contacts within the Deathwatch is pretty dam slim.


On the other hand, during the Great Crusade, the fleets encountered lots of Xenos species that had been corrupted by Chaos. In fact, it served as the prime plot point for the fall of both Horus and Fulgrim, when they encounter corrupted blades that had been forged by Xenos.

I would also point to the Eisenhorn book Xenos as an excellent example of the corruption of a Xenos species tainting the Imperium and requiring the Ordos Malleus to intervene, even with an increasingly Radical Inquisitor. Throw in a company of Deathwatch Marines and you have a party :victory:


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