# What units/ items are useless to you in this edition?



## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

I'll start with the disclaimer that I personally think every unit could have a use.
However...
Since when you charge it's now initiative order (instead of the charger going first, sans ASF, which made sense to me), and since the majority of my opponents field elves of one sort or another, I find my dire wolves to be a waste of points. Even when charging a unit that can't stand and shoot, the initiative order gets them killed before they can even do anything.
Same thing goes for my black knights, Brettonian knights, and so on. I lose a lot of any unit before it does its wounds, which usually causes me to break. The knights, at least, have armour and barded mounts which somewhat mitigates that. 
Nor do I waste points on Dispel Scrolls anymore, since there are several players here who run Teclis.

Actually, I'm not fond of having to fight armies with my new VC codex, which has limited magic item options, in comparison to the codices like Dark Elves, High Elves, and so on that still have all of their item options. Most of my fave items for elf-killing are now either gone or a bit nerfed... and yes, if I can kill elves I can kill anybody.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

We don't allow Teclis around here, nor the book of Hoeth. We also do not allow most special characters at the lord level and ban some (Daemons) at the hero level selectively. The abiilty to IF everything with minimal fear of miscast given the magic lores is simply not sporting. Even if we did allow it, you'd get so many bad game votes in a tourney that you'd lose more points even if you won every game. 

Consider bat swarms (negate ASF and give ASL) and corpse carts (give ASF) if hit with augment spells (Nehek in range). Spam lvl 1's and 2's with Nehek in tight formations and take Book of Arkan for an extra shot at Danse each magic phase to speed you up. Consider crypt horrors run in support of black knights. 

Your point about dire wolves is interesting. I had thought of running them as screens for black knights now that Nehek generates 1+ level models previously lost for black knights and dire wolves (as well as bat swarms and crypt horrors). 

Also, notice that Danse gives you models re-rolls to hit until your next magic phase and allows a normal move (up to 8") if the unit(s) affected are not already in combat. That allows you to get across the table and into combat faster to avoid direct damage and missile spells and shooting.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

olderplayer said:


> We don't allow Teclis around here, nor the book of Hoeth. We also do not allow most special characters at the lord level and ban some (Daemons) at the hero level selectively. The abiilty to IF everything with minimal fear of miscast given the magic lores is simply not sporting. Even if we did allow it, you'd get so many bad game votes in a tourney that you'd lose more points even if you won every game.
> 
> Consider bat swarms (negate ASF and give ASL) and corpse carts (give ASF) if hit with augment spells (Nehek in range). Spam lvl 1's and 2's with Nehek in tight formations and take Book of Arkan for an extra shot at Danse each magic phase to speed you up. Consider crypt horrors run in support of black knights.
> 
> ...


My corpse cart is taken out with magic missles first thing (and of course it doesn't do any good to have it behind terrain to start).


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Yup. That is one of the problems with a corpse cart and that is one of the reasons I do not like the new true line of sight rules as much as I like 8th edition in general.


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## vulcan666 (Jun 19, 2010)

it was mostly down to luck but 5 chaos knights of khorn got charged by 15 phonix guard did'nt loose a single model and instead ran them down and overan into 20 seaguard, that combat saw oneknight die and 20 seaguard die.
fighting elves really requires a unit to either have over whelming numbers that a few turns of magic cant stop or high enough ws and initive that the elves get little attacks back


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

Most of the Orc magic items are pointless now as the cost means you have to scrimp in other areas, the only 1 I use is the Skull wand of Kaloth with my gobbo shamen normally combined with itchy nuisance.
Dwarf wise my army is unchanged, not that everything in the book is great just that if I didn't use it before it's still not used now.
Empire, Volleyguns the only redeeming feature to the volley gun was that the Engineer could add his BS, Now that Engineers don't stop you getting other characters they also can't help you actually hit.
Cavalry of any kind (maybe with the exception of outriders) they just can't do enough and most of mine have poor Init so get slammed first .


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

neilbatte said:


> Most of the Orc magic items are pointless now as the cost means you have to scrimp in other areas, the only 1 I use is the Skull wand of Kaloth with my gobbo shamen normally combined with itchy nuisance.
> Dwarf wise my army is unchanged, not that everything in the book is great just that if I didn't use it before it's still not used now.
> Empire, Volleyguns the only redeeming feature to the volley gun was that the Engineer could add his BS, Now that Engineers don't stop you getting other characters they also can't help you actually hit.
> Cavalry of any kind (maybe with the exception of outriders) they just can't do enough and most of mine have poor Init so get slammed first .


Ya, they definately screwed low initiative units being effective on a charge, elves get all of the perks.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I haven't found any units or items to be worthless. Some of the weird items in the core book don't seem to serve much of a purpose beyond being just sort of fun and quirky, which is great-- but as far as actual worthlessness goes, I can't think of anything. As a Chaos player, I find Forsaken a little iffy still, but I've also found uses for them in certain scenarios. For example, if you need to assault a building held by something like ogres...there's no better unit to do it, since they have a potentially very high attack output per model. But they're very scenario-specific as far as their usefulness.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Half the ogre magic items are totally useless. Weapons and great names which have had points doubles (or quadrupled for some) and/or rules worsened. Siegebreaker used to be a great item on butchers, but now at 70ish points (can't give it away since I can't remember) its gone up at least 40 points, become lord only, only gives +2S not +3 and in exchange can switch strength for the height of a building its attacking... but since almost no building is over 6" anyway, and there isn't going to anything in a building that really cares about the differences between S6-10 anyway who the hell cares.
Some ogre stuff became awesome (rock eye), but others just became farcical.

An old one but all the daemon nurgle stuff, especially beasts got hit pretty hard. I still have fun with a slaaneshi/nurgle list but its not the powerhouse it would have been in 7th (hoard of PBs getting owned by stormvermin was weird).

I would also throw in HE bolt throwers to the mix, probably DE ones too: bolt throwers in general got hurt, with a reduction in heavy cav seen, a reduction in ability to hit monsters and a reduction in wounds... and they weren't great before.


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