# Who has actually TRIED the new Sisters of Battle rules?



## mahavira (Jan 10, 2010)

The release in WD of updated Sisters of Battle rules was accompanied by mighty wailing and gnashing of teeth, with melodramatic declarations of despair and vows to continue using the old rules. While I suppose some people can (or at least claim they can) judge the rules simply by looking at them, I'm curious as to who has actually tried them, against what army, and what the results have been. For myself, I have fought Dark Eldar twice, in both cases bloody draws ending in turn 6, and in both cases given a turn 7 I'd have tabled him. I also fought Nob Bikers once and was tabled, but as our resident Ork player has a condition commonly called invincibility, I don't read much into it.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

I've have, am, and will keep trying them. Yes the record in my signature is current. First game I nearly tabled a Blood Angles army at 1.5K (he had 4 Devastators left out of his entire list), tied the same player in Kill Points at 2K (which turns out he had 2K, I had 1,750 due to bad math which has been fixed as of my most recent game. Oops.), tabled a 2K Necron foot list (no 'liths, just Crons, Lords with Res Orbs, and two units of Scarab Swarms...yeah...it took all 7 turns to do it too thanks to not having a way to quickly take his units out and KEEP them out) took out a Space Marine army completely at 1,750, and beat out another Space Marine army this last weekend at 2K.

What has it taught me? That the non-Space Marine players don't show up as much as they should. :grin:

In all seriousness I can agree with the complaints about the limited nature of the codex's options, the invalidation of the Canoness, the automatic choices in the codex (though I'm making one less automatic choice: Repentia work for me by building a troop squad to hold an objective or terrain piece and heavy bolter enemies from afar as needed to give the Repentia a lift via a strategy I've dubbed "Grand Theft Rhino"), the need to get in your opponent's face and risk dying on a regular basis, and basically having a glass hammer that threatens to break every time you swing.

That said, the codex can, and does function fairly consistently. I rarely use faith points, and when I do it's just for the little buffs it can offer (like the Repentia 1-attack-after-death power) rather than relying on anything that's game changing (which there isn't in these powers from what I've seen).

Either way I'm having fun with it since I'm playing something no one else does, has some fun background material, and overall try and push the book to the limits I can. I've been trying to get a game on against one of the more current Xeno races, but recently the Marines have been only ones really showing up so I'll take what I can get in terms of play.

Additionally, as a side note: the army DOES work at 2K. Especially if you make sure you've supported all your units with complimentary ones. Regardless of the level, don't rely on faith or the 6++ saves. They're fun when they work, and that's about it.


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

I'll add to that Zion

While I don't play Sister's myself, I watched someone who does play them proceed to all but table an Ork player a few weeks ago with the new SoB rules

Personally, I think the rules aren't that bad. You just have to learn to support your units and how to get the maximum out of them, arguably what everyone who plays 40k should be doing anyway in my opinion


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Dawnstar said:


> I'll add to that Zion
> 
> While I don't play Sister's myself, I watched someone who does play them proceed to all but table an Ork player a few weeks ago with the new SoB rules
> 
> Personally, I think the rules aren't that bad. You just have to learn to support your units and how to get the maximum out of them, arguably what everyone who plays 40k should be doing anyway in my opinion


Basically I like to sum it up as "play like Eldar in power armor". :wink:


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## mahavira (Jan 10, 2010)

I might also add that with 2 twin hand flamer girls, the seraphim ability is crazy good - even when the orks tabled me, the other guy was still a little shell shocked by the number of wounds my Seraphim with Celestine dished out.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

I'd definitely build a Sisters army if they weren't so damn expensive.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

Nooooooooooooooooooooo!

GW actually did a decent WD codex for them?

Dammit.

Now I'll have to find something else to whine about...


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

Weapon said:


> Nooooooooooooooooooooo!
> 
> GW actually did a decent WD codex for them?
> 
> ...


Try Chaos Marines 

Plenty to complain about, lots of stuff you can use for reference (previous complaints, the codex), and unlikely to see an update for at least 6-8 months :laugh:

/sarcasm


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Dawnstar said:


> Try Chaos Marines
> 
> Plenty to complain about, lots of stuff you can use for reference (previous complaints, the codex), and unlikely to see an update for at least 6-8 months :laugh:
> 
> /sarcasm


It's frustrating because it's so true.


Grand theft rhino haha well played.

There's 1 sisters player around here (probably because theyre so damn expensive) and he does very well vs. SM and nids/orcs. Flamer/vehicle heavy if I recall, so it's not suprising.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

In all seriousness though, it's good that the Sisters finally got an update despite their unpopularity.

And a decent one at that too.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Weapon said:


> In all seriousness though, it's good that the Sisters finally got an update despite their unpopularity.
> 
> And a decent one at that too.


They're unpopular because they get not support from GW and GW doesn't support them because their unpopular.

Got to love those vicious cycles.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Yeah, I like the models, the fluff, etc... GW should reduce the price to be comparable to SM's, like have a box of 10 sisters, complete with a sister superior, special weapon, and heavy weapon for $30. Then, a few 5-woman special squads (HQ, Jump Pack, elites) for $25-30. Then, I bet they'd be real popular. I just can't see paying $8-10 apiece for regular troops.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

jaysen said:


> Yeah, I like the models, the fluff, etc... GW should reduce the price to be comparable to SM's, like have a box of 10 sisters, complete with a sister superior, special weapon, and heavy weapon for $30. Then, a few 5-woman special squads (HQ, Jump Pack, elites) for $25-30. Then, I bet they'd be real popular. I just can't see paying $8-10 apiece for regular troops.


That would be an ideal situation, but I can't see it happening any time soon. 

Why?

Because the Sisters are a risk. No other army is anything like the space nuns and they've shown themselves to be quite unpopular in the past. It would take quite a lot of work to make them seem 'cool' enough to collect again now, especially with the Grey Knights using them as Blood sacrifices. And considering that (In my opinion, due to the fact that it still hasn't sold out yet despite it being in limited stock) Dreadfleet isn't doing too well, I doubt that GW will want to make too many more mistakes.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't or won't get the good overhaul that they deserve, just that I think they won't any time soon.

On the other hand, the Dark Eldar and grey Knights were waaaaaay overdue for an overhaul too and they certainly got what they needed.

So who knows?

In the mean time, I salute those who continue to use the Sisters through their troubled times.

And the Necron dudes.


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

You'd think the insane boost in popularity in Dark Eldar and Grey knights would be evidence enough for GW that decent rules combined with good plastic kits (I think both DE and GKs kits are superb) will boost sales like there is no tomorow. 

But this half arsed list with glaring issues (cannones worth nothing and the near auto include of Jacobus) coupled with some lackluster choices like demoting the immolator to be "just a flamer version of the razorback" really won't make people buy them.

No new models whatsoever (not even a friggin finecast scam) makes this one of the tamest ever "releases" they did. Sure, a skilled player will be able to get wins out of it. A skilled player can win with the current Chaos or Tau codex too... It's just another army that's reduced to a mono-build and therefor boring as hell. 

I take the new SoB for what it is: 

A rushed, lackluster codex to remove any last remnants of allied rules and to create a clear diffentiation between SoB and GKs. There was the birth of the new GK codex and the new SoB codex is just the afterbirth.


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## Uveron (Jun 11, 2011)

Which WD are they in? 

I havent been reading the WD in Years... Is there any other way to get the list?


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Uveron said:


> Which WD are they in?
> 
> I havent been reading the WD in Years... Is there any other way to get the list?


August and September 2011. There isn't rules online officially yet (despite the White Dwarfs being out of stock unless you order from the UK), so if you want a pdf you need to do some digging online.


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## mahavira (Jan 10, 2010)

So far I'm counting 2 people who have tried the list and 1 who witnessed someone else doing so. As for "a skilled player can make any list work", I am not a particularly skilled player (getting to play once every 2 months or so will do that) but my results have been much better with this one than the old list.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

The new Battle Sisters are just fine for casual play. Yeah they have less options than the 5th edition books (I refuse to consider the Sisters in their current incarnation to be 5th edition updated) but as far as actual tabletop performance goes they should do fine against the wide range of casual armies that they'd end up facing. Competitive play is a different story entirely.

The main beef that people have with the Sisters is less that they're "bad" and more that they're *boring* as hell. Going without updates all the way through 4th edition and well into 5th's lifespan only to receive such a half assed effort stings a lot. No new models, no exciting new mechanics (Faith is completely silly right now, or more specifically the way Faith Points are generated), just tweaked points costs and a few units getting some USRs slapped onto them (Repentia, Dominions and so on).


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

If you don't have the army yet, I'd suggest making a proxy army from what you have and trying out the rules against friends.

I did this several times before buying my Chaos Space Marines army.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

I have playtested every list I've posted on this forum now. Its far from a mono-build codex, and I'm having a LOT of fun with it


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## mahavira (Jan 10, 2010)

I already knew Zion and SilverTabby have been doing it, just wondering if any of the crowd who don't post army lists have been doing it. The blowback in the SoB rumors thread was so negative I had a feeling that the majority dismissed it without making the attempt - of course SoB players are rare enough that that could represent the entire Heresy Online SoB community.

And definately proxy if you are interested in starting SoB - I was crazy and wrong to use them as my first army back when you could at least buy them in squads of 10, now you'd have to be insane, insanely rich, or buy someone's army off ebay (I think you'll probably find a few posters on the SoB rumor thread who are giving up in disgust). If you like how the army works, buy plastic when the real update comes (aka when they finish working the kinks off the process for making posable minis with droopy sleeves).


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Or buy some female heads and put them on space marine bodies.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

mahavira said:


> I already knew Zion and SilverTabby have been doing it, just wondering if any of the crowd who don't post army lists have been doing it. The blowback in the SoB rumors thread was so negative I had a feeling that the majority dismissed it without making the attempt - of course SoB players are rare enough that that could represent the entire Heresy Online SoB community.
> 
> And definately proxy if you are interested in starting SoB - I was crazy and wrong to use them as my first army back when you could at least buy them in squads of 10, now you'd have to be insane, insanely rich, or buy someone's army off ebay (I think you'll probably find a few posters on the SoB rumor thread who are giving up in disgust). If you like how the army works, buy plastic when the real update comes (aka when they finish working the kinks off the process for making posable minis with droopy sleeves).


Heh. Guess I'm gaining a small level of internet fame? 

Personally it's not that I can't understand why people are upset, but quitting an army you've been playing for years just because the codex update was in a White Dwarf seems rather silly to me. If you hate THIS release then shelve the army and play something else until they get an update.

Personally the lack of any kind of new model support (not even the Special Characters! Really GW? Saint Celestine, one of the few models almost everyone hast because of how cool it is, and you didn't think we might like a Finecast version (less likely to chip paint or fall over due to being top heavy)? Or Seraphim who would benefit from being made form the light-weight Resin? Or bringing back the old Sisters 10x troop boxes to make the army more reasonably affordable at least? C'mon... THINK MCFLY! :angry really doesn't sit well with me more so than the lack of attention the rules got.

I'm sorry for the ranting. Sometimes GW's choices are hard to deal with without getting upset.


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## andrewm9 (Aug 21, 2008)

I've been playing with the new codex. I don't like it, but despite my griping it does work, just not as well as the last one in my opinion. The price break on Rhinos was irrelevant to me since I have long been using Forge World point costs for my vehicles. For the most part I play only in friendly games so I plagued by 'no-Forgeworld' rules. Sisters' armies are still experiencing the same problems as before which are slightly more pronounced. I do however field it is nearly impossible to build an all-comers list at less the 1500 points though maybe I haven't discovered the right combination.

I've heavily been using the new Dominions (at least 2 squads each game) and the Battle Conclave along with Jacobus. I'm severely disappointed in the loss of identity for the army. I will live and the world isn't over. What I am not seeing a lot of is people discussing new tactics. Do we really field this is a mono-build codex?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

andrewm9 said:


> Do we really field this is a mono-build codex?


It is. I don't think all the particulars have been hammered out yet but most Sisters armies should look a lot like this when it's all said and done.

HQ

Jacobus and _maybe_ Celestine (probably not)

Troops

2 squads of Sisters with flamer/meltagun and multi-melta/heavy flamer in Rhinos/Immolators with twin-linked multi-meltas.

Elites

1-2 Battle Conclaves in Rhinos

Fast Attack

3 Dominion Squads with 2 meltaguns in Immolators with twin-linked multi-melta

Heavy Support

3 Retributor Squads with 4 heavy bolters in Immolators with twin-linked multi-melta

Certain people will prefer Exorcists over Retributors (their loss in my opinion) while others will try to mix in other units like Repentia and Seraphim, but it's looking like the Sisters will end up best being used as a mech heavy force relying on Immolators to crack tanks from range and Dominions/Battle Sister squads to do it up close. Battle Conclaves do the heavy lifting in close combat while the Retributors thin out infantry and shoot down light vehicles.

It's not great, but it's making the best of a bad situation.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

I severly doubt that will be the mono-build, as the elites choice doesn't exist. Bonus points for hopefulness though.

And that, whilst an efficient list, is an exceptionally boring one. I play to have fun, so even if a list isn't the most efficient, it has variety. No army *needs* to be mono-build. Have you actually played any variation away from that list? I've been pleasantly surprised, you might be too...


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

SilverTabby said:


> I severly doubt that will be the mono-build, as the elites choice doesn't exist. Bonus points for hopefulness though.


Yeah sorry, been awake for over two days. -_- Not thinking clearly at all. I meant a Battle Conclave with Jacobus in a Rhino.



> And that, whilst an efficient list, is an exceptionally boring one.


Depends how you have fun with 40k, but yeah, it's quite one dimensional I agree.



> I play to have fun, so even if a list isn't the most efficient, it has variety. No army *needs* to be mono-build. Have you actually played any variation away from that list? I've been pleasantly surprised, you might be too...


No army _needs_ to be a mono-build, that's true. It's just that depending on your goal while playing the army a mono-build may be your best bet.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - there's _nothing_ wrong with the Sisters Codex for casual play. It's a bit boring and limited but as far as tabletop results go, anyone should be able to do just fine. Competitive tournaments are something else entirely however.


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## mahavira (Jan 10, 2010)

Well, Warriors of Chaos was a webdex for all of 6 months before the true release (why they bothered I'd like to know), and I have heard rumors of Q1 2012, so it is possible there were no models, even finecast, release because they wanted to save it for then (imagine the wrath if they redid the standard sister squad in finecast then released plastics in 6 months (not to mention the wasted time and money on their part)). While I generally think St. Celestine looks fine as is (if I ever get around to painting her anyway) they might be planning a new model to take advantage of the crazy detail they've been achieving with their new DE stuff.

One thing I don't understand is when people say this ruleset is bland, lost the flavour of the old etc.. To my mind the older ruleset was much more bland: there was literally no difference between basic sisters, dominions, and retributors other than the number and cost of upgrades.

In terms of tournament play, I confess I have no qualification to judge, though given the miserable point costs (assuming no IA rule set - I don't even own it so not clear on what it did beyond 35 point rhinos) I can't imagine the old rules were that competitive (skilled players may have won games and even tourneys, but the codex wasn't helping).


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

mahavira said:


> Well, Warriors of Chaos was a webdex for all of 6 months before the true release (why they bothered I'd like to know),


To minimize confusion for the rules for Daemons, basically. The Hordes of Chaos army book had Daemons in it and then the Chaos Daemons army book had other, different rules for Daemons, so they did a "quick fix" for the Warriors of Chaos to tide people over until they could release the army book proper. I wouldn't be surprised if this 'Dex is the same for Sisters and was made so that there weren't conflicting rules for Inquisitor Karamazov, Death Cult Assassins and so on.



> One thing I don't understand is when people say this ruleset is bland, lost the flavour of the old etc.. To my mind the older ruleset was much more bland: there was literally no difference between basic sisters, dominions, and retributors other than the number and cost of upgrades.


Because at least Acts of Faith were many and varied on each unit so you could do cool stuff. Plus you got things like Inquisitors, Assassins, Inducted Guard and so on.



> In terms of tournament play, I confess I have no qualification to judge, though given the miserable point costs (assuming no IA rule set - I don't even own it so not clear on what it did beyond 35 point rhinos) I can't imagine the old rules were that competitive (skilled players may have won games and even tourneys, but the codex wasn't helping).


Amusingly enough, Witch Hunters wasn't as awful in competitive play as some people might think. Don't get me wrong it wasn't exactly top "tier" (not really a fan of the term but whatever), but ImmoSpam (the lame name given to the build. What is it with this community and it's names?) was pretty vicious due to the Immolator's ability to move 12" and fire its heavy flamers. That doesn't work anymore so people have switched the Immos over to multi-meltas instead. Doubt the modern Immospam will be as good as the Witch Hunter version, though.


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## mahavira (Jan 10, 2010)

The army may have had 5 different acts of faith, but all units used the same 5 - you say bland is each unit having only one act, I say bland is all units having the same abilities. Matter of taste I guess. I also found the old acts pretty close to useless - maybe if I fought MEQs more often I'd treasure divine guidance and spirit of the martyr more, but I usually ended games with most of my faith points because there was never a time when an act would both help and be even remotely likely to succeed.

Interesting to hear how Sisters were used in tournament play, though my Rhinos and Immolators explode if you breathe on them hard so I can't imagine relying on them. I can't claim to be surprised that Immolators lost the ability to fire flamers going at 12" - they are not otherwise fast vehicles and while the rationale "you aren't really aiming with a flamer" makes some sense it makes the same amount of sense for Space Marines and anyone else who can put a flamer on a non-fast vehicle - if Sisters can do it everyone should be able to, and rules-wise everyone shouldn't be able to.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

mahavira said:


> The army may have had 5 different acts of faith, but all units used the same 5 - you say bland is each unit having only one act, I say bland is all units having the same abilities. Matter of taste I guess. .


Yeah, definitely a matter of taste. I mostly find the current acts to be sort of bleh because they're rehashed versions of the old ones or are just plain uninteresting. +1S on a unit that isn't good in combat? +1I to make a character halfway competent in close combat? Twin-linked and re-roll to wound are kind of nifty at least...



> Interesting to hear how Sisters were used in tournament play, though my Rhinos and Immolators explode if you breathe on them hard so I can't imagine relying on them. I can't claim to be surprised that Immolators lost the ability to fire flamers going at 12" - they are not otherwise fast vehicles and while the rationale "you aren't really aiming with a flamer" makes some sense it makes the same amount of sense for Space Marines and anyone else who can put a flamer on a non-fast vehicle - if Sisters can do it everyone should be able to, and rules-wise everyone shouldn't be able to.


Well yeah, it's just that... frankly, flamers are fucking useless on a vehicle that can't move 12" and fire them. I can't imagine ever taking heavy flamers on a Razorback that didn't come from the Blood Angel Codex, especially for the absurd points cost that every other Codex asks to make a Razorback from a super cheap mobile heavy bolter to a moderately expensive awful heavy flamer platform. Sisters should be able to go 12" and shoot flamers just because if they can't then there's no point in taking them at all, hence modern Immos going for the multi-meltas.


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## mahavira (Jan 10, 2010)

Katie Drake said:


> Yeah, definitely a matter of taste. I mostly find the current acts to be sort of bleh because they're rehashed versions of the old ones or are just plain uninteresting. +1S on a unit that isn't good in combat? +1I to make a character halfway competent in close combat? Twin-linked and re-roll to wound are kind of nifty at least...
> 
> 
> 
> Well yeah, it's just that... frankly, flamers are fucking useless on a vehicle that can't move 12" and fire them. I can't imagine ever taking heavy flamers on a Razorback that didn't come from the Blood Angel Codex, especially for the absurd points cost that every other Codex asks to make a Razorback from a super cheap mobile heavy bolter to a moderately expensive awful heavy flamer platform. Sisters should be able to go 12" and shoot flamers just because if they can't then there's no point in taking them at all, hence modern Immos going for the multi-meltas.


I actually think Celestians are "good in combat". I wouldn't send them up against enemy close combat specialists (I'd shoot the bastards), but I find they're quite rough on enemies that aren't combat specialists and have the option of either shooting effectively or using pistols (and a heavy flamer) and closing to deny the enemy the ability to assault (fighting orks and DE as often as I do this is a big deal), and I have wanted S4 for a long, long time. Fearless also means that if you botch the assault due to terrible rolling, odds are you won't break in your turn and he'll be open to be shot once he finishes you off. The main feature of the Canoness' AoF is not the init, it's the favored enemy. Suddenly that unit of Celestians is has the same init as assault marines (and if they succeeded on their act of faith the same strength) and are much more accurate. As to the regular sisters act of faith, I find it versatile and really useful: you shoot better than space marines (and almost never die from plasma burns - I now take combi plasmas standard), you fight a little better than they expect, and you can recover even if the unit is broken and down to one or two models.

The new acts are sometimes less dramatic than the old (get 2 going on a canoness and you had a very dangerous character), but they're always applicable (is it ever bad to reroll 1s to hit?) and always useable (with the exception of the command squad, it is impossible to have worse than 50% chance of success) as opposed to the old rules (try to use spirit of the martyr BEFORE howling banshees or assault terminators annihilate your unit).


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

mahavira said:


> I actually think Celestians are "good in combat". I wouldn't send them up against enemy close combat specialists (I'd shoot the bastards), but I find they're quite rough on enemies that aren't combat specialists and have the option of either shooting effectively or using pistols (and a heavy flamer) and closing to deny the enemy the ability to assault (fighting orks and DE as often as I do this is a big deal), and I have wanted S4 for a long, long time. Fearless also means that if you botch the assault due to terrible rolling, odds are you won't break in your turn and he'll be open to be shot once he finishes you off. The main feature of the Canoness' AoF is not the init, it's the favored enemy. Suddenly that unit of Celestians is has the same init as assault marines (and if they succeeded on their act of faith the same strength) and are much more accurate. As to the regular sisters act of faith, I find it versatile and really useful: you shoot better than space marines (and almost never die from plasma burns - I now take combi plasmas standard), you fight a little better than they expect, and you can recover even if the unit is broken and down to one or two models.
> 
> The new acts are sometimes less dramatic than the old (get 2 going on a canoness and you had a very dangerous character), but they're always applicable (is it ever bad to reroll 1s to hit?) and always useable (with the exception of the command squad, it is impossible to have worse than 50% chance of success) as opposed to the old rules (try to use spirit of the martyr BEFORE howling banshees or assault terminators annihilate your unit).


First of all there not always applicable cause you can only use them during your turn. Ya trying to do spirit of the martyr before howling banshee or assault terminators annihilate your unit is hard but you can still do it unlike the current acts of faith. What's that your getting charge, its okay you will just use the +1 Strenght and preferred enemy ... oh wait, you can't cause you can only use faith during your turn.

If you think Celestians are good in combat then you must have not seen any decent combat units. For the same amount of points I can get grey hunters, chaos space marines or hell 3 guardsmen, which is actually better in combat then Celestians in combat (not including the act of faith but then again you can give guardsmen orders). Your entire argument centers around acts of faith, which the codex itself says you should not rely on. You don't know how many you will get since you roll a D6, and you still have a large chance of failing. If celestians get charged by anything they are dead.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

If -any- Sisters get charged, odds are they are dead. What you pay for in Celestians is that in your turn, -you- can charge, do better than a normal Sister and still be just as good at shooting at other times. 

Don't discount them so easily - with a Canoness in tow I've seen Celestians take out a Talos in close combat and still be over half strength at the end of it. No normal Sister squad can do that - Repentia are about the only other ones - and still have the option of fire support as well.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

SilverTabby said:


> If -any- Sisters get charged, odds are they are dead. What you pay for in Celestians is that in your turn, -you- can charge, do better than a normal Sister and still be just as good at shooting at other times.


So basically Celestians are as good (actually slightly better) as normal Sisters at shooting, but can sometimes be better in close combat (not good, but better).

I'd rather just use shooting units for shooting and assault units for assaulting then taking a shooting unit and trying to "force" it to be good at assault.

That's just my play style though.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> So basically Celestians are as good (actually slightly better) as normal Sisters at shooting, but can sometimes be better in close combat (not good, but better).
> 
> I'd rather just use shooting units for shooting and assault units for assaulting then taking a shooting unit and trying to "force" it to be good at assault.
> 
> That's just my play style though.


Aren't normal sisters better at shooting then celestians due to the fact that they get to reroll 1's on their act of faith.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

I agree I'd like a dedicated assault squad in power armour, but if wishes were horses I'd need a bigger back garden. So a good shooty unit that has the option of getting you out of a tight spot involving combat will do it for me. I use Seraphim the same way - a unit that is fast moving fire support, that can charge and do quite well when needed. I'm hoping for the eventual return of jump-packed canonesses so I can put her with them instead (neigh).


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## Suijin (Aug 11, 2011)

Math Hammer
10 SM Tactical squad (10xbolt pistol, 9x bolter, power weapon) 185 points
10 Celestian Squad (10xbolt pistol, 9x bolter, power weapon) 165 points
10 SM Scout squad (10xbolt pistol, 9x bolter, power weapon) 155 points

SM Tactical charge Celestian
Shoot bolt pistol – 10 shots, 20/3 hits, 40/9 wounds, 40/27 dead
Charge assault 9 basic – 18 attacks, 9 hits, 6 wounds, 2 dead
Charge assault Sergeant PW – 4 attacks, 2 hits, 4/3 wound, 20/18 dead
Celestian dead Total = 4.59 dead
Celestian 4.41 hit back – 8.82 attacks, 4.41 hits, 4.41/3 wounds, 4.41/9 dead
Celestian Superior PW – 3 attacks, 1.5 hits, 0.5 wounds, 0.5 dead
SM dead Total = 0.99 dead
A LD roll to fall back at 3.6 penalty - 24/36 to fail and fall back
I test to see if swept – 26/36 to be swept
Looking pretty grim

Celestian charge SM Tactical faith successful
Celestians Shoot bolt pistol – 10 shots, 20/3 hits, 20/6 wounds, 20/18 dead
I4 SM Tactical 142/18 hit back – 142/18 attacks, 71/18 hits, 71/27 wounds, 71/81 dead
I4 SM Sargeant PW – 3 attacks, 1.5 hits, 1 wounds, 5/6 dead
Celestian dead Total = 1.71 dead
I 3 Celestian Charge assault 7.29 basic – 21.87 attacks, 21.87/2 hits, 21.87/4 wounds, 21.87/12 dead
I3 Celestian Charge assault Superior PW – 4 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound, 1 dead
SM dead Total = 3.93 dead
A LD roll to fall back at 2.22 penalty - ~16/36 to fail and fall back
Continue to fall back – 21/36
Or 15/36, ATSKNF, can’t be swept – 0% to be swept, but takes 2.5 wounds, 2.5/3 dead
Final SM dead Total if caught falling back = 4.77 dead

Celestian charge SM Tactical NO faith
Celestians Shoot bolt pistol – 10 shots, 20/3 hits, 20/6 wounds, 20/18 dead
I4 SM Tactical 142/18 hit back – 142/18 attacks, 71/18 hits, 71/27 wounds, 71/81 dead
I4 SM Sargeant PW – 3 attacks, 1.5 hits, 1 wounds, 5/6 dead
Celestian dead Total = 1.71 dead
I 3 Celestian Charge assault 7.29 basic – 21.87 attacks, 21.87/2 hits, 21.87/6 wounds, 21.87/18 dead
I3 Celestian Charge assault Superior PW – 4 attacks, 2 hits, 2/3 wound, 2/3 dead
SM dead Total = 2.99 dead
A LD roll to fall back at 1.28 penalty - ~11/36 to fail and fall back
Continue to fall back – 21/36
Or 15/36, ATSKNF, can’t be swept – 0% to be swept, but takes 2.5 wounds, 2.5/3 dead
Final SM dead Total if caught falling back = 3.83 dead

SM Scout charge Celestian
Shoot bolt pistol – 10 shots, 5 hits, 10/3 wounds, 10/9 dead
Charge assault 9 basic – 18 attacks, 9 hits, 6 wounds, 2 dead
Charge assault Sergeant PW – 4 attacks, 2 hits, 4/3 wound, 20/18 dead
Celestian dead Total = 4.22 dead
Celestian 4.78 hit back – 9.56 attacks, 19.12/3 hits, 19.12/9 wounds, 19.12/18 dead
Celestian Superior PW – 3 attacks, 2 hits, 2/3 wounds, 2/3 dead
SM dead Total = 1.73 dead
A LD roll to fall back at 2.49 penalty - 18/36 to fail and fall back
I test to see if swept – 26/36 to be swept

A note on the SM Scouts is that is not a typical loadout for them. I chose that to make them all equal, but they will either have sniper rifles, shotguns, or bolt pistols and CCW rather than the bolt pistol and boltgun. Both the shotgun and the bolt pistol and CCW will kill more than the loadout shown. SM scouts are not considered overpowered in any way really and there are soo many other units much better than them at assault

I believe all the above is correct. Mostly it means Celestians will do OK if they charge and pretty horrible it they are charged. Also they will do horrible against anything good at assaults even if they get the charge.


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