# Fantasy discussion



## CardShark (Dec 20, 2010)

so lets start with wood elves I hear they are really outdated but I breezed threw the codex and it seems like there a very due able army would anyone here suggest them to someone who's new to fantasy (I do lizardmen but a friend does wood elves).


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I'd suggest any army to a new player; although Wood Elves I'd suggest caution - when you play better opponents, there are two builds to run - Eternal Phalanx and MSU Archers.

Personally, I think that shooting with anything that's not blanket S4 or AP is a waste of time - the movement phase is borked so it's one strength is lost, and that Glade Riders are heavily over costed, so you can't utilise that. The Phalanx, on the other hand is decent, and benefits from two things - Rhymer's Harp granting a 5+ Ward Save to a huge block of Elves is scary, and large blocks of Treekin securing a flank.

On the other hand, Dark Elves do the Combat Blocks better (Cheap Hatred Causing Spearmen are fierce when supported by Hydra's), and High Elves do shooting better, and are still capable at combat, so they drop a little bit.

And with the advent of heavy infantry hordes winning out over MSU or weaker hordes, this means that this shifts to armies with at least a 4+ Armour Save versus range, hitting on 4's, wounding on 4's, and being saved on 4's turns a unit of 20 Elven Archers (240pts) into causing 5-7 wounds (including Stand and Shoot) before being engaged in combat against a decent player.

On the other hand, you could have a unit of Phalanx Guard putting out 50 WS5 AP attacks with an almost definate second turn charge (2 turn threat radius up to 15+2D6", with the potential of Call of the Hunt move), and a 5+/5++ save... In my eye's there's no real competition, as they're stubborn with a reroll, better benefit from the lore of life and beasts.


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## Flem (Feb 11, 2011)

Wood elves are one of the hardest armies to play. Like all elves they are an expensive elite army, only down side is wood elves have almost no saves, no hatred and no always strike first like their cousins. In the current edition wood elves have taken a nasty blow since skirmishers have been drasticly nerfed.

They have how ever recieved other benifets from the 8th edition. Way watchers for one are far more usefull. As they can march and shoot, the chance of getting in close range to have that killing blow is increased. Treekin ad a treemen have gotten better with their stomp attack(s), and treekin with the 3 support attacks rule. 

With the lore of beast and life boosted wood elves can use these new and empored lores to boost their army even more. I hate it when an alter noble gets +3 attacks and starts firing 7 shots that don't allow armour saves.


My 2 shard of warpstone, it's a fun army to play with that grants alot of movability and shooting. But they are your typical glass cannon and tend do die easy, so you might end up losing alot of the battlesyou play at the start of your WH carreer.

Flem,


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Wood Elves are not necessarily bad, but Dark Elves and High Elves are both significantly better (most consider both high tier), so the Wood Elves usually get dumped on a lot. They cost too much, they don't have the awesome special abilities that their High/Dark brethren have, and their magic lore is pathetic. You have to take a Lord Sorcerer to get a good magic school, and in doing so you're usually giving up a Tree Lord, which are amazing.

Really, the only viable build I see the Wood Elves having is the Eternal Phalanx one Vaz listed, backed up by a good number of tree troops (any type, all the tree units are great). They just don't do shooting well enough to mainly be a shooty army, mainly because of their lack of war machines.

If you want shooty, go with Dark Elves, High Elves, Empire, Dwarves, or Skaven (and possibly Orcs & Goblins, I haven't seen the new codex though, so can't say for sure).

All in all, I wouldn't start with Wood Elves if you're a new player. Start with either High Elves or Dark Elves, and then branch out to Wood Elves later, after you already have a good understanding of the game.


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## Hammer49 (Feb 12, 2011)

I certainly wouldnt recommend wood elves. They have many skirmishers which makes them quite unique out of all the army books. 
With the new (newish) warhammer rulebook being very reliant on combat resolution they suffer as its quite expensive points wise to get large units in the army, and they have fewer options than most of ther other armies.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Flem said:


> In the current edition wood elves have taken a nasty blow since skirmishers have been drasticly nerfed.


Now, in all fairness, only Wood Elf skirmishers got (actually, more or less combat-based skirmishers) nerfed. Most other races skirmishers got WAY better (Salamanders, anyone?).

I've also seen lists which just include inordinate numbers of treekin/treemen/whatever they're called. I'm no expert, but they lookd alright. Although Vaz's suggestion sounds much better.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Well, not combat resolution, as such, just sheer hit 'em and see. BSB Rerolls, Generals, and Steadfast mean that you're looking at a block of 50 taking 15+ casualties, and still having Ld10 with a reroll to not break.

Neither did Skirmishers really get nerfed as bad as you say. It's just that range, skirmishers, and MSU receive less benefit from the new rules than 3 blocks of instagibbing Chaos Warriors.


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## Durzod (Nov 24, 2009)

Wood Elves really got raped by the new terrain and true LOS rules. So what if they can move trees around. They no longer affect movement or block LOS, so unless you take a lord level caster your magic is only good for aesthetics. 
This leads to the silly state where the only viable armies are almost elf free. Eternal guard are a joke with their T3 and 5+ save. And they're the elite Wood Elf warriors.


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