# Is the Imperium finally starting to learn that it has to form alliances?



## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

In order to survive?

I don't know about anyone else, but it seems that as time passed since the Age of Apostasy, select groups in the Imperium have become more willing (although grudgingly) to ally themselves with alien races. We have numerous accounts of people working with Eldar, although those usually end with one side betraying the other. Still, it is progress, and it seems to be going on at an increasing rate.

More interestingly is the growing relation with the Tau. There have been at least two occasions where the Ultramarines have worked side by side with fire warriors. (Malbrede, Fire Warrior) In fact, they did not backstab each other in the end, but rather the Ultramarines allowed the Tau to evacuate before conducting an Ordo Extermanatus, indicating a level of respect. Both of these cases have occured recently, and it appears to fit with the increasing rate of imperials cooperating with xenos. 

This is not to say that the Imperium currently _likes_ xenos, or even that cooperation is occuring on a large scale. However, what was once non-existant is now occuring on a small but increasing scale. I myself hope that grudging cooperation will give way to grudging respect to mutual respect. After all, the times the Imperium is facing are dark, and the only way the forces of order can survive in this galaxy (Tau, Imperium, Eldar) is if they unite and stand against the forces of evil.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

It tolerates a minor alliance with eldar against chaos but if they aren’t working together with them against chaos or if they come in contact with any other xeno species....... open season bitch. lol


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

The Imperium and eldar are much too consumed by their old, petty hatreds to form a long term alliance. It likely takes the fullness of their sparse rationality for them to accept that they can't always fight a two front war. The tau might be game, but it takes more than one team to make a duo.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I think the two most possible candidates for alliances for humanity would be Tau and Eldar. Though I think it would be a very uneasy alliance, as they always have been. There have been some short term alliances before... but haha, thats the thing... short.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Ah, here comes the optimist again.. :grin:



Platypus5 said:


> I don't know about anyone else, but it seems that as time passed since the Age of Apostasy, select groups in the Imperium have become more willing (although grudgingly) to ally themselves with alien races. We have numerous accounts of people working with Eldar, although those usually end with one side betraying the other. Still, it is progress, and it seems to be going on at an increasing rate.


Take into account that temporary or secret cooperation with Xenos has happened since the inception of the Imperium. We even have a few examples from the Heresy Series: Fulgrim's initial cooperation with Ulthwe, Alpharius' collaboration with the Cabal, Horus' tolerance of the Kinebrach etc.

Its common sense to have allies in the face of a common foe, or cooperate if Xenos have important information or resources to manipulate or loot. But ultimately the Imperium is no less Xenophobic now than it was during the Great Crusade. If you take a common foe out of the equation, the Imperium would not hesitate about obliterating (or attempting to) the Tau or Eldar.


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## CaptainLoken (May 13, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Take into account that temporary or secret cooperation with Xenos has happened since the inception of the Imperium. We even have a few examples from the Heresy Series: Fulgrim's initial cooperation with Ulthwe, Alpharius' collaboration with the Cabal, Horus' tolerance of the Kinebrach etc.


Though i must say there you have stated all legions that turned to chaos?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

The Tau and IG were fighting a war prior to the Damocles Crusade, when a Splinter Fleet hit them mid war. They turned around, shot the shit out of the nids, then turned around, and started killing each other.

They weren't allies, they had a common enemy.

As to the legions turning to chaos, let's have a look at those recent occasions when they didn't - Ultramarines fought on Ikkyo along with Eldar.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

And the Eldar stood alongside the Ultramarines in defence of Ichar IV.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> And the Eldar stood alongside the Ultramarines in defence of Ichar IV.


I thought the Eldar fought their own separate battle? Craftworld Iyanden, wasn`t it? 



@Platypus, both your examples of alliances with the tau involved the UM as you said. This chapter prides itself on being honourable warriors, so would naturally show respect for a worthy warrior race like the tau. Not all chapters are so noble... 

Hell, the Blood Angels even allied with NECRONS to fight tyranids! :laugh:


But I would not expect that from the Black Templars or Fleshtearers. :wasntme:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

CaptainLoken said:


> Though i must say there you have stated all legions that turned to chaos?


I think its safe to say, as _Vaz_ implied, that that is totally irrelavent. The Legions turning to Chaos for the most part had nothing to do with their dealings with Xenos (Alpha Legion aside). In fact i'd wager that most of the Legions during the Great Crusade had some form of contact or collaboration with Xenos.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> I thought the Eldar fought their own separate battle? Craftworld Iyanden, wasn`t it?


Craftworld Iyanden did fight a separate battle but the Eldar also allied with the Ultramarines at Ichar IV.


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> @Platypus, both your examples of alliances with the tau involved the UM as you said. This chapter prides itself on being honourable warriors, so would naturally show respect for a worthy warrior race like the tau. Not all chapters are so noble...
> 
> Hell, the Blood Angels even allied with NECRONS to fight tyranids! :laugh:
> 
> But I would not expect that from the Black Templars or Fleshtearers. :wasntme:


The Blood Angels are only one step above the heretics they are fighting.

And it isn't just the Ultramarines who are fighting next to xenos. The Blood Ravens have worked with the Eldar several times. Gabriel Angelos is even called "hidden heart" by the Harlequins.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well even the wolves fought with eldar once buy all of those were simply alliances of convenience that only lasted for a short time. They will never form any major, long term, alliances with any xeno race. It just won't happen.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> Craftworld Iyanden did fight a separate battle but the Eldar also allied with the Ultramarines at Ichar IV.


If you say so... :dunno:



Platypus5 said:


> The Blood Angels are only one step above the heretics they are fighting.
> 
> And it isn't just the Ultramarines who are fighting next to xenos. The Blood Ravens have worked with the Eldar several times. Gabriel Angelos is even called "hidden heart" by the Harlequins.


I don`t want to get into a debate about specifics. But both these chapters are a fair bit more enlightened and open minded than some of the more zealous chapters out there. If that`s heresy, so be it.

ps, One step above is all you need to be considered the "good" side. :laugh:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

It should also be taken into account that for the most part these temporary alliances are not sanctioned by the High Lords of Terra or any other central authority. They are temporary cease-fires if you will, that millitary commanders see the obvious benefit of.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> I thought the Eldar fought their own separate battle? Craftworld Iyanden, wasn`t it?
> 
> Hell, the Blood Angels even allied with NECRONS to fight tyranids! :laugh:


Na you dont ally with necrons, they have there own seperate agenda, so sometimes they come out, spank the enemies ass and then leave, other times they spank your ass and leave, in general its all there own plan.

I mean i really cant see dante sitting down with a necron lord like some perversely badass Little Red riding hood 

"What beautiful green eyes you have"
"What a big beautiful scimitar you have"

"I will flay your soul"

Doesn't quite work for me :biggrin:


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

deathbringer said:


> I mean i really cant see dante sitting down with a necron lord like some perversely badass Little Red riding hood
> 
> "What beautiful green eyes you have"
> "What a big beautiful scimitar you have"
> ...


ah my god so funny, sigged i think 

anyway i cant see the imperium permenatly allieing them selves with any xeno race, maybe for short times but no more then that, the imperium believe they own the right to the whole galaxy


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Well even the wolves fought with eldar once buy all of those were simply alliances of convenience that only lasted for a short time. They will never form any major, long term, alliances with any xeno race. It just won't happen.


It is a learning process. Nothing is instant. When a baby first starts babbling "mama," however, you can assume that it will learn more words and eventually be able to speak. In the 40k universe, look at Lorgar. He is an example of how love can turn into hate. Of course, that change was for the worse, but it can also be for the better. Why couldn't you say that the same thing is going on in the Imperium? It seems like the rate of instances of cooperation is increasing, and the rate of backstabbing is decreasing...

(Note: I am not saying the Imperium is solely responsible. The Eldar also need to learn to stop backstabbing.)


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Platypus5 said:


> It is a learning process. Nothing is instant.


Yet you think in ten thousand years they would have learnt by now!  The Imperium is all about the Status-Quo and always has been since the Emperor's Ascension. There is no progression, only stagnation.

Xenophobia is ingrained into the entire Imperium, the God-Emperor decreed it so. Hatred of Xenos is spread by the Imperial Cult, the Adeptus Terra, the Inquisition, and all other Imperial organisations to the point where your common citizen utterly and purely detests any non-human with a passion.

Plus the Imperials dont really like going against what their Lord and Saviour demanded, people tend to get burned when that happens. 



Platypus5 said:


> It seems like the rate of instances of cooperation is increasing, and the rate of backstabbing is decreasing...


That is an assumption. It may only seem that way because we have loads more background information on M41 than we do the preceding millennia.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Hell, just look at the eldar! The eldar are willing to butcher tens of millions of imperial citizens in order to save 1 eldar. The eldar view humans like humans view...... Well eldar. Both groups believe the other to be one of the lowest and most vial forms of life in existence. The only real agreement the two sides could come to is that chaos sucks and they hate each other. Now we move the Tau. They Tau would never agree to an alliance, only a total surrender. They don't allow other groups to exist outside their control, it would probably go against their greater good crap. An alliance will never happen.


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Now we move the Tau. They Tau would never agree to an alliance, only a total surrender. They don't allow other groups to exist outside their control, it would probably go against their greater good crap. An alliance will never happen.


I won't be too sure about that. To the Tau, an alliance with the Imperium is a great boon for them. Let's face it, the Tau's biggest threat is the Imperium. To the Tau with the Imperium would remove that threat while providing them with the means to potentially spread the Greater Good even further among the people of the Imperium. My reasoning is simple. If an alliance is formed between to the two powers, the Imperium will want to have Tau Hunter Cadres supporting Imperial Guard Regiments in combat, which will inevitably cause to the two groups to mingle,with the Tau spreading the Greater Good to the guardsmen. While many would ignore their words, some wouldn't, potentially embracing the Greater Good in secret, and could lead to the creation of Tau cults within the Imperial Guard, which could spread to Imperial citizens when said guardsmen interact with them during and after campaigns on Imperial worlds.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Akatsuki13 said:


> I won't be too sure about that. To the Tau, an alliance with the Imperium is a great boon for them. Let's face it, the Tau's biggest threat is the Imperium. To the Tau with the Imperium would remove that threat while providing them with the means to potentially spread the Greater Good even further among the people of the Imperium. My reasoning is simple. If an alliance is formed between to the two powers, the Imperium will want to have Tau Hunter Cadres supporting Imperial Guard Regiments in combat, which will inevitably cause to the two groups to mingle,with the Tau spreading the Greater Good to the guardsmen. While many would ignore their words, some wouldn't, potentially embracing the Greater Good in secret, and could lead to the creation of Tau cults within the Imperial Guard, which could spread to Imperial citizens when said guardsmen interact with them during and after campaigns on Imperial worlds.


Thats all well and good from the Tau's point of view. But the Imperium would never enter into such an alliance, so we can discredit that hypothetical situation.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

An alliance between the Tau and the Imperium won't happen. Neither side is willing to back down on it's core values. The Empire won't commit to the greater good any more than it would accept open Chaos worship and the Tau would never agree to follow the Imperial religion.
As for the IG following the greater good, it could happen but when it finally went public it would spark another civil war, the perfect chance for all the other factions to smack the Imperium back to the stone age.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

And an alliance with the Tau Empire (even just a military alliance) would bring nothing valuable to the Imperium, the Tau have no influence on the Galactic Scale. It would also depend on the Imperium abandoning some of its core principles laid down by the God-Emperor himself, something which would obviously never happen.


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## dragonkingofthestars (May 3, 2010)

*Maybe*

to quote page 31 of codex Tyranid "None are safe from the predations of the Tyranids and if the the tide canot be held back, if teh Warring Civilisation do not unite against them the entire galaxy is doomed." also if you play soul storm or dark crusade dawn of war games then you find the tau and eldar respect each other. so it depends if a big enough threat roll around then yes they would ally i think a big enough ork Waagh, the necrons compeating there divice to split warp and real space, or the Tyranids could unite them and the resulting confict would weaken them so much they could not betray each other. and when there strong enough to do so the feelings of peace would have sunken in and become permente, not counting Inqusators with power like theres if even one of them would soon die then work with Xenos then thats what happens.


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