# IG counter assault unit



## jasonfly (Feb 1, 2009)

was wondering if this would be viable:

Platoon command squad-190 pts
commisar w/powerfist
power sword
heavy flamer
3xflamer
chimera

i thought that this would be a good speed bump, counter assault unit. With that many flamers, i think i should even be able to scare terminators, and the cc punch of a powerrfist and a powersword is nothing to laugh at. The chimera should get them where they need to go and provide some fire support to thin the hordes/ bust light transports.

is this too expensive pointswise? i was thinking ogryns but the models are too expensive.


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## TerranRaida (Jul 28, 2009)

the Headquarters for IG can be a nasty piece of assaultwork, i would have my HQ in a chimera and just go around pimp slapping people, i took the HQ idea from a old white dwarf issue the actual squad itself costs 282 points and contains:

Heroic Senior Officer 
w/ Carapace Armor, Master Crafted Power Sword, Bolt Pistol, Trademark item - high weapon skill, high leadership, rerolls misses in combat, and trademark item keeps the squad in the fight.

Commissar
w/ Power Fist, Carapace Armor, and Bolt Pistol.
good for killing heavily armored opponents and can damage vehicles, also giveds the HSO a leadership value of 10.

Priest (a Daeomonhunters Heirophant)
w/ Carapace Armor, and Eviscerator. he has a +4 save and the Eviscerator can make a mess out of a Dreadnought

Two Veterans
w/ Close Combat Weapons and laspistols, extra attacks ftw

Medic
w/ Close Combat Weapon and laspistol. the medipack allows a reroll of one failed armor save per turn

Company Standard Bearer
allows reroll of failed moral test

this combination has 28 attacks on the charge, 16 s3 attacks, 5 s3 attacks with rerolls for misses and no armor save, and 7 strength 6 attacks with no armor save.

not to mention the shock value of the 'guard actually killing anything in close combat =P


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I dont know how many guys you have in that unit but even if you filled the chimera I doubt it would be worth it... unless you happened to be playing orcs or nids (ouch massacre).
As far as guard counter-assault units go I would say dont. Just feed the enemy guardsmen units- send a cheap unit forward so that the enemy can charge them or spend the whole turn trying to go round (doesnt matter about you shooting through your own guys normally since almost everything that scares a guardsman will have a 3+ or better armour save anyway (so who cares about a 4+ cover save).

EDIT- you can make a nasty unit like TerrenRaida suggests but its pricey, quite easily killed and can easily be outdone by armies with dedicated assault units (eg- 205pts gets 10 SW blood claws in a rhino with a flamer, 6 S8 powerfist attacks and 31 S4 attacks... all of which they should get in defense as well as charging).
If you do use an assault unit try to use it to fill a gap thats necessary- my WFB ogres take ranged units which would be 2* overpoints in other armies but which are occasionally vital for me.


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## jasonfly (Feb 1, 2009)

i think that you make a good point tim/steve. Now that i think about it, 200pts in a guard army can buy lots of other things.

I might however, try it out in a friendly game just for the sake of it


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## Meat Shield (Jun 20, 2009)

Seems like a nice little unit. The problem with IG speed bumps is the low model count. My IG counter assault is usually straken. He is manly enough to go toe to toe with most other cc units as well as making any puny ig around him a big tougher as well. The counter assault unit you have could easily be changed around to include straken. When using straken you don't need a commissar in the unit due to the unit being fearless. Throwing a priest in with the unit gives them one heck of punch. 

In larger point games i usually go whole hog and take a greyknight grandmaster and 4 of his buddies. Most people aren't expecting IG to carry around that much cc muscle. I know most ig players don't want to spend 350 or so points on one unit, especially a cc unit, but that one unit is scary enough to force most opponents to ignore the entire flank that they are deployed on.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Platoon command squads don't have the numbers to make the proper oomph of a counter assault squad imho.. unless you use two or so..
Though with 3 flamers, they should be able to put a dent into something by doing a drive by burning.

If you want a real counterassault unit.. use roughriders, or a company command squad, Straken is great at it.. since he also gives the squad that just got assaulted counterassault, so they'll sell their lives a bit more dearly.. and his furious charge on all people around him works wonders.


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## jasonfly (Feb 1, 2009)

why i hesitate to use my CCS as a counter assault unit is because if they die, my good orders die with them and then i have to rely on PCS' and the orders they can give are not as effective.


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## Meat Shield (Jun 20, 2009)

just take 2. They're only about 65 points if you give them a missile launcher. Even if you don't use your cc command squad in cc that still gives you 4 orders per tern. throwing out 4 bring it downs or fire on my coordinates per tern is very nice.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

THat's what medics are for 

Besides.. Ol' Iron Hand is a beast.. he doesn't die that easily.. especially if you add some bodies around him.
Remember, if you give carapace to the squad, everyone gets it, including people like the MoO, MotF and Astropath, and since they have a pistol and CCS, they actually hold their weight in CC with him. ( 3 attacks on the assault with furious charge.. yum )

EDIT: Just came up with this for IG...
Another good tactic might be:
Get a WH priest and put it in a large mob of guardsmen. They will have a reroll to hit when assaulting.. And you can give her carapace and an eviscerator.. put her with straken, and they'll be nasty. Also the WH priest is not an IC, and has 2 wounds, otherwise he's more expensive sadly, but he also adds another option to your list..

When you have this priest, you can field a squad of arco-flagelants as an elite choice, They're expensive, but with S4, T5 and 1d6 powerweapon attacks as well as getting 1d6 extra movement in the movement phase when you turn them on, they are a force to be reconned with. They're also fearless... if THOSE were to be near straken when they charge...
I5, S5, 1d6 +1 powerweapon attacks per model at WS4 or 5 (not quite sure )... and a 4+ invulnerable.. come get some!


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## jasonfly (Feb 1, 2009)

might convert some arco-flagellants, i'm not a big fan of the model.

adding another project to the ever increasing list....


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I don't think IG command squads are much good in assault. You are still basically talking about guys with T3 and 5+ saves, and not very many of them.

For the cost of that unit you could get a leman russ with plasma cannon sponsons. If a scary assault unit, say a unit of khorne berzerkers, plague marines or genestealers, has just munched one of my squads I think I'd prefer to have the russ. I can see the command squad making a dent in a marine squad, but not any of the serious cc guys. You look silly if your guys die before getting an attack.

IG do have some good options for counter-assault. Rough riders are insane, striking before almost everyone with strength 5 power wep attacks (better still if given furious charge). Another option is to give your infantry sergeants power weapons and take either Creed or Straken. These guys end up with large numbers of power wep attacks at strength and initiative 4, which is bad news for most targets. They also have a ton of ablative wounds and a commissar can make a lot of formed up squads stubborn, so it's a good tar pit.

Still probably easier to shoot them.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

jasonfly said:


> might convert some arco-flagellants, i'm not a big fan of the model.
> 
> adding another project to the ever increasing list....


hehe.. I'm planning to convert some necromunda pit slaves into arco flagelants myself.. just need a couple more brutal looking CCWs for em.


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## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

Arco flagellants do look like crap.

OP: The heavy flamer is about the most overcosted piece of gear in the new IG dex. I bought a bunch of them off of ebay, however, to convert up sterguard heavy flamers.

Straken is the way to go for melee. I4 ST4 guardsmen just make me want to laugh.


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## KageRyuuUji (Jan 16, 2009)

Personally I prefer Ogryn, no matter how expensive they are, T5 is hard to beat.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Someguy said:


> Rough riders are insane, striking before almost everyone with strength 5 power wep attacks (better still if given furious charge).


Actually, Rough Riders aren't affected by the Furious Charge thing as you'd hope.
The lance specifies "strike at Strength and Initiative 5.", so no 6 for you 



KageRyuuUji said:


> Personally I prefer Ogryn, no matter how expensive they are, T5 is hard to beat.


Agreed, they really are a force to be reckoned with.
On a charge, including their guns, they get:

3 strength 5 shots, hitting on 4+, before the assault.
4 strength 6 shots at initiative 3 and WS 4.
And they have 3 wounds each, so they're DAMN tough!

One thing you want to watch out for though, when fielding Ogryn; Demolisher cannon.
S10, instant-kill half the squad, you don't want that.


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## matty570 (Jun 14, 2007)

I toyed with the idea of making an almost entire cc IG army, with a bit of russ support. Basically, take Straken, and 3 units of 20/30 troops (combined units) each unit with a commisar with a power weapon, if your feeling flush take power weapons and melta bombs on the sergeants as well.

Keep them all within 12" range of Straken and you've actually got quite handy CC units. Yes they will die quickly, but I've play tested it and managed to beat down an Ork nob bike HQ (albeit I was quite lucky with 6s to wound on the power weapons.

Either way you have large scoring units, that are as good as fearless and can bog down/take out most things, and if you come up against anything too tough then charge Straken in on the subsequent turn for some S7 madness. Add in a priest to his unit and he's rerolling.

Strangely guard can be very effective in CC, personally I think they have more options that SM do, and that just feels wrong.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm not sure how effective it would be, but a horde/CC IG army is certainly feasible.
And NOBODY will ever expect THAT.. also the good part is that with orders, you can also enhance your shooting a little bit if needed, like when facing an orc horde army, where you will want to soften them up with a million flashlights before engaging them in hand to hand.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> I'm not sure how effective it would be, but a horde/CC IG army is certainly feasible.
> And NOBODY will ever expect THAT.. also the good part is that with orders, you can also enhance your shooting a little bit if needed, like when facing an orc horde army, where you will want to soften them up with a million flashlights before engaging them in hand to hand.


"Ok men, blind them BEFORE we retreat!"


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## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

Winterous said:


> "Ok men, blind them BEFORE we retreat!"


Better than the alternative though.


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## matty570 (Jun 14, 2007)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> I'm not sure how effective it would be, but a horde/CC IG army is certainly feasible.
> quote]
> 
> Personally I think it could work really well, mainly through attrition rather than anything else, I play tested a couple of lists and won comfortably both times against a strong Ork list and a space marine list.
> ...


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## KageRyuuUji (Jan 16, 2009)

Winterous said:


> Actually, Rough Riders aren't affected by the Furious Charge thing as you'd hope.
> The lance specifies "strike at Strength and Initiative 5.", so no 6 for you
> 
> 
> ...


Anything STR10 is bad that's for sure, but that's why I throw em in a chimera, that whay they can actually assault and don't have to worry about STR10 weapons till then.

As for the rough riders, they have that Attilla the Hun guy that upgrades them with rage and furious charge, which allows for Str6 Int6 hunting spears.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

KageRyuuUji said:


> As for the rough riders, they have that Attilla the Hun guy that upgrades them with rage and furious charge, which allows for Str6 Int6 hunting spears.


Unfortunately, that's not true.
The hunting lances SPECIFY that they strike at S5 and I5, regardless of how strong or quick the wielder is.

And the special character is terrible, he may be great at close combat, but he removes the single most important thing the Rough Riders have.
Target selection.
He forces you to charge toward the closest unit, which completely defeats the purpose of even taking Rough Riders; they're supposed to choose their target carefully, and completely obliterate them.


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## KageRyuuUji (Jan 16, 2009)

Says nothing about Hunting Spears not mixing with furious charge, so unless they make an erreta that states otherwise (since they have no such erreta right now, hoping they clear up confusion on hot-shot lasguns personally), they can strike at STR6 INT6 with furious charge, after all Mogul has a hunting spear and furious charge (which any Rough Rider unit he accompanies gains) would be rather silly if the one weapon you're forced to use first turn didn't stack with such an ability. Not to mention, that the characteristics of the weapon become the characteristics of the unit using it.

Again, no statement of any exceptions listed in MRB, so until they finally post an erreta I see no reason why it wouldn't possibly stack.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

KageRyuuUji said:


> Says nothing about Hunting Spears not mixing with furious charge, so unless they make an erreta that states otherwise (since they have no such erreta right now, hoping they clear up confusion on hot-shot lasguns personally), they can strike at STR6 INT6 with furious charge, after all Mogul has a hunting spear and furious charge (which any Rough Rider unit he accompanies gains) would be rather silly if the one weapon you're forced to use first turn didn't stack with such an ability. Not to mention, that the characteristics of the weapon become the characteristics of the unit using it.
> 
> Again, no statement of any exceptions listed in MRB, so until they finally post an erreta I see no reason why it wouldn't possibly stack.


First of all, what confusion with Hot-shot Lasguns?

And dude.
Furious Charge modifies the stat of the unit that uses it.
Hunting lances do not, they specify that they strike AT S5 I5.
It doesn't say "They strike at +2 S and I for the first round of combat"
It doesn't say "They raise their S and I to 5 for the first round of combat"
It says they strike AT S5 I5, so Furious Charge doesn't work on it.

Mogul is a retarded character anyway, he's a waste of a unit.
And his FC still works on his CC weapon, and conveys it to the unit; don't underestimate the effectiveness of lots of S4 attacks, even if Rough Riders don't have 2 CC weapons (which they should).


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## KageRyuuUji (Jan 16, 2009)

Well Hot-Shot *Lasguns* and FRFSRF, doubt they'll mix but it would be nice.

Still, no erreta, and easily solved by an ingame agreement, so no reason to argue about something that would seem logical, after all the +1STR INT from Furious Charge comes from charging the enemy and using the momentum to carry you through (I'm certain you know the formula of momentum so there's no need to add that). Logically it would combine regardless of the obvious, WH40k not being a logical game/universe (more so presently than in the past), but still I shall wait for the erreta before judging against.

Also, do you think FC combines with PFs? And if so would that be (Str+1)x2 or (Strx2)+1?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

You recieve the benefits of Furious Charge.

Relic Blade is a 2 Handed Power Sword which Strikes at Strength 6. But no-one refutes the fact that a Relic Blade would strike at Strength 7 in that case.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

KageRyuuUji said:


> Also, do you think FC combines with PFs? And if so would that be (Str+1)x2 or (Strx2)+1?


You double before any modifiers, so x2+1; a common thing with Orks, seeing as how Furious Charge and Power Fists are so common together 



Vaz said:


> You recieve the benefits of Furious Charge.
> 
> Relic Blade is a 2 Handed Power Sword which Strikes at Strength 6. But no-one refutes the fact that a Relic Blade would strike at Strength 7 in that case.


Actually no, in that case you do not.
It says the attacks are resolved at S6.
Let's put it this way, if a Wraithlord were to be using a Relic blade or Hunting lance, would you resolve the attacks at S5/6?
Of course you would, because it says you do.


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