# 9th Edition Fantasy Rumours



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Get a drink, a snack and use the bathroom now, because this is a long bit of reading folks:



75hastings69 said:


> I'm pretty sure LM, DE & Dwarf players WILL get a new book before 9th, but not sure about the rest.
> (...)
> As far as I know (and have posted last August) the release order remains unchanged. Your bland short fat humans (tre Manor's Red Box Games do dwarfs sooooo much better!) should be with you early next year. Out of interest have these same stockists been asked the same of their Lizardmen range?
> (...)
> ...





Harry said:


> > Hastings, ifyou please - the difference is going in drastic changes of rules system or approach to armybooks and their existance?
> 
> 
> I did try to make it clear months ago ....
> .... significant changes to the rules, the timeline and the approach to armybooks.





75hastings69 said:


> He did too, the timeline thing I've also heard too. This would be an advantageous way perhaps of stopping production of individually named character models that don't sell big volumes.... perhaps all generic plastic lord kits in plastic with multiple options that appeared a while ago might be more sensible? that way they can represent you as the general on the battlefield not you playing someone else on the battlefield (who invariably gets killed by a single night goblin fanatic lol!)
> 
> 
> > And this way get rid of named characters - 500 years passed so some are dead and some are new phoenix kings etc so no reason to field them on the table?
> ...


Plus some random thoughts:


75hatsings69 said:


> My understanding is that the cycle of each books life before update is too long which causes issues, however increasing the frequency of updating each book multiple times per edition is even worse... would you buy a HE book if it were to be updated in under a year? This coupled with a fading popularity of WFB (sales wise) and the feeling some of the races are perhaps too generic fantasy and not "warhmer" enough leaves them with choices of either dropping WFB altogether or making some serious changes to the way in which races are represented and in which army lists etc are sold. It HAS to be the latter to make back the £ spent on all the manufacture/design work for the best return possible for investors/shareholders. I suppose they 'could' have gone down the road of putting updates in WD but that would mean WD having actual content and wasting advertising/store listing space lol!!
> 
> (...)
> Popular armies will continue to receive more new units/kits/support whereas less popular armies (e.g. WE/Brets) may be 'lumped together' with their 'combined' force getting shared new kits etc. in all honesty what "warhammer" additions would any of you add to bretonnia army range???? big monster? No war machines? No, more horse types? No due to lack of variety etc. instead give them options to add say units from a wood elf force after all they are closely linked in the fluff. Then maybe when it comes time to add something new bret players would be happy to buy for example plastic WE stag riders as a MC choice and also pick up some existing WE kits to theme their army up more.
> ...


Still in the land of the living? Okay, the short version:

Fantasy is changing drastically. Brace for Nerd-Rage in 2015.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Interesting, though all unverified of course. 

If they do to to the Privateer Press system of releases (release a little bit for each faction every year), i wonder if they'd pick up on the finer points that make it work, or fark it all up. The things which make pp's system work are firstly, that you don't have to buy the yearly books (you get the rules with the models, or get the rules updated for free if you bought a faction deck in Warroom, or read the full stats previewed in No Quater magazine, or read about what a model does on battle college), and secondly that the releases don't aim to ramp up the power level to sell models (while there have been good releases, the vast majority have been right in the middle of the power curve). That way, new players don't feel intimidated by having to buy a dozen books to get access to the full range, and older players don't feel under pressure to keep updating constantly to keep your army viable, both of which would make Fantasy less attractive to players.

Basically, if fantasy were to go to cross-army releases, it would require changes in it's core buisness practices in order to actually be a positive for the game... And I just don't see that as likely.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

its two years away, what ever the changes are we can worry about them then, Warhammer fantasy isnt as popular as 40k, but its far more popular than it gets credit for.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> its two years away, what ever the changes are we can worry about them then, Warhammer fantasy isnt as popular as 40k, but its far more popular than it gets credit for.


Yep, 4th most popular non-collectible miniatures game (after X-wing shot past it last quarter, because of its brand and wider market) is not to be sneezed at, but I would suggest it's possibly lagged a bit compared to other games since 8th Ed was released (which would be why GW would be looking at a shakeup, assuming it actually was going to shake things up).


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

maddermax said:


> Interesting, though all unverified of course.


Well naturally. The thing is that these rumours are coming from Hastings and Harry which give them a fairly high chance of being correct, and this is about when they'd be working on the rulebook for 9th Ed Fantasy to ensure a mid-2015 release, hence why I posted it instead of ignoring it.



maddermax said:


> If they do to to the Privateer Press system of releases (release a little bit for each faction every year), i wonder if they'd pick up on the finer points that make it work, or fark it all up. The things which make pp's system work are firstly, that you don't have to buy the yearly books (you get the rules with the models, or get the rules updated for free if you bought a faction deck in Warroom, or read the full stats previewed in No Quater magazine, or read about what a model does on battle college), and secondly that the releases don't aim to ramp up the power level to sell models (while there have been good releases, the vast majority have been right in the middle of the power curve). That way, new players don't feel intimidated by having to buy a dozen books to get access to the full range, and older players don't feel under pressure to keep updating constantly to keep your army viable, both of which would make Fantasy less attractive to players.


Actually it seems that Fantasy might be going 3rd Ed Fantasy (one book to rule them all) from what has been said.



maddermax said:


> Basically, if fantasy were to go to cross-army releases, it would require changes in it's core buisness practices in order to actually be a positive for the game... And I just don't see that as likely.


1 book is cheaper to make than 15, and GW did this sort of thing in 3rd Ed WFB (they have been making a number of almost "retro" moves lately in resurrecting the past) so I won't say it's unlikely, especially if they're trying to resurrect a system that's dying because the game doesn't bring in new bodies like it should. You can start an average 40k army for less than $500 USD (even less if you play lower than 1.5K, or purchase from ebay), your adverage Fantasy army can run you $600-800 USD, it's not really a "newbie friendly" system because of it.



bitsandkits said:


> its two years away, what ever the changes are we can worry about them then, Warhammer fantasy isnt as popular as 40k, but its far more popular than it gets credit for.


It's still interesting to hear what's being discussed behind the scenes (that is when reliable sources bring it along), as these are the things that will shape the game. It might be the thing to interest people to jump back into the game, plus it's worth discussing.



maddermax said:


> Yep, 4th most popular non-collectible miniatures game (after X-wing shot past it last quarter, because of its brand and wider market) is not to be sneezed at, but I would suggest it's possibly lagged a bit compared to other games since 8th Ed was released (which would be why GW would be looking at a shakeup, assuming it actually was going to shake things up).


From what I was reading of those posts it pretty much came down to internally Fantasy is losing ground and they feel that some drastic changes will need to be done to either stabilize it, or put it back on a path of growth.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Zion said:


> From what I was reading of those posts it pretty much came down to internally Fantasy is losing ground and they feel that some drastic changes will need to be done to either stabilize it, or put it back on a path of growth.


I hope this holds damned true.
True LoS is ok I guess but pre-measuring and random charges can go fuck itself. That alone ruined WHFB for me at least.
40k was always the "gung-ho" system of the 2 where as fantasy was the "sneaky manoeuvring system" where eye measuring and well thought through moving was king. Needless to say its not any more...





Before some nifty dude/dudette complains about spells its still far off from 5th ed on the power curve.
Oh the joy of a total power Curse of Years that killed(yes, not wounded) models on 5+ on the first roll and then you got another roll on the start of the enemy magic phase on 4+ before he could do shit about it. 
Or when a Skaven player at the club killed 47 Empire models with 1 Plague, this included serious cherry picking with General, Wizard Lord, BSB and several other neat choices.
Nifty moving (aka kind of suicudal if it failed) with the Wizard Lord let you send the huge Purple Sun of Xerxes template 4d6 inches through several units and it killed touched models on 3+.
Most fun of all however was the great fun combo Crimson Bands and "whatthefuckthecometspellwascalledbackintheBrightMagicDeck". You can not move, and anything touched by this nice 3 inch radius template DIES regardless of everything if it pops down. If you timed this proper you got 3 rolls before the enemy could try to run away regardless of dispelling crimson bands...oh yea, you were forced to dispel each meteor token separately, and you got one each time the comet failed to show up...

Did I mention both players cast spells on both players magic phase back then? 
I guess I should add that...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

As in stop releasing fucking waste of time bullshit like that retarded mage wagon, and lower the price of 10 model units so i am not spending 2.50 for a minor piece of plastic, that i am going to need in excess of 80 versions of.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Zion said:


> Actually it seems that Fantasy might be going 3rd Ed Fantasy (one book to rule them all) from what has been said.
> 
> 
> 
> 1 book is cheaper to make than 15, and GW did this sort of thing in 3rd Ed WFB


three to four books, they are aiming for 3 as I currently understand


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Bindi Baji said:


> three to four books, they are aiming for 3 as I currently understand


Either way, it's easier to manage than 15. Also I appreciate the input as you've added some addition credence to this rumour.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

I think the aim is more allies being used (in a similar way to 40k now) and not so much a mish mash of armies, 
at the same time I don't think we're going to see people having to ally up.

I'm not so sure it's anything drastic it's more a way of having less to update and for it to be easier for people to buy new flavours of resin :wacko:



Zion said:


> Either way, it's easier to manage than 15. Also I appreciate the input as you've added some addition credence to this rumour.


exactly, you only have to remember the dark eldar anger and the current leaping on any bad rumour ever from SOB fans to see what happens when you don't get round to updating an army.

and you are welcome


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Bindi Baji said:


> exactly, you only have to remember the dark eldar anger and the current leaping on any bad rumour ever from SOB fans to see what happens when you don't get round to updating an army.
> 
> and you are welcome


I -am-a Sisters player and I resemble/resent that remark! :laugh:

Seriously though, there are a LOT of bad Sisters rumours out there.

I'm thinking the new approach with allow them to better handle the way Fantasy is produced and sold thus making it cheaper to update (3 books every 5 years, some supplements in the mean time which later get rolled into the new books...). Fantasy has been in a downward spiral since 8th so this will hopefully spice things up.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Zion said:


> ...Fantasy has been in a downward spiral since 8th so this will hopefully spice things up.


Nothing produces demands of change like severely dropping sales, its probably a rough wakeup call but hey, its a needed one.
Pretty models alone wont keep a game system afloat...


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

MaidenManiac said:


> Nothing produces demands of change like severely dropping sales, its probably a rough wakeup call but hey, its a needed one.
> Pretty models alone wont keep a game system afloat...


True. You know Fantasy is hurting when the sales are dropping in Europe were it's more popular.


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