# Apocalypse is coming: Leaked Khorne Bloodknight



## stephen.w.langdon (Jan 1, 2012)

Just found this and had to share :grin:










Zion Edit: I hosted it off site to GW doesn't C&D us for it.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Nice find. Didn't see that last night when I was looking for Apoc rumours so it must have -just- fallen off the truck this morning. Well time to start a proper Apoc thread. If we're getting this now then we should be getting more soon.


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## Battman (Nov 2, 2012)

Wow what the hell is that thing??? More apocalyse I'm good with that


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## The Irish Commissar (Jan 31, 2012)

Is that baneblade size


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## seermaster (Feb 22, 2012)

confirmation I guess 
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=171794&d=1370204771&thumb=1
edit dam beat me too it


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Well I tried to merge this with the Apoc thread but time line issues made it too much of a pain to do it. Still a good find.


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

The Irish Commissar said:


> Is that baneblade size



Sure as hell looks like it! Old Epic Lord of Battle makes a comeback!








:grin:


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Ohhh I love apocalypse!!

Time to start wishlisting on plastic thunderhawk again!!! (or even plastic tyranid bio-titans!)


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I get that Apoc is for big toys and such but please GW, stop it, its a tabletop miniature wargame not fucking power rangers!


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

normtheunsavoury said:


> I get that Apoc is for big toys and such but please GW, stop it, its a tabletop miniature wargame not fucking power rangers!


You seen the "Megalith" yet (yes this sentence is a link)?


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Death Shroud said:


> Sure as hell looks like it! Old Epic Lord of Battle makes a comeback!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is awesome. I always loved the old chaos engines in Epic. Hopefully they work on some of the others down the line as well.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Zion said:


> You seen the "Megalith" yet?


 tis a sad day indeed.

Having to hire a removal van to get your miniature(?) to your local club is a step too far.


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## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> tis a sad day indeed.
> 
> Having to hire a removal van to get your miniature(?) to your local club is a step too far.


I'm starting to agree. I know people will say it's Apocalypse so that means you can have bigger stuff, but it's just getting flat out silly.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Loli said:


> I'm starting to agree. I know people will say it's Apocalypse so that means you can have bigger stuff, but it's just getting flat out silly.


Starting too? FW makes a Tau Apoc model that can double as a small table. It was already silly, now it's just silly and plastic.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Love to know where that came from, since we staff only got our _June_ issues on Tuesday...


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Svartmetall said:


> Love to know where that came from, since we staff only got our _June_ issues on Tuesday...


The printers would be my guess since they get everything printed some time before its released to get it made up in time.


That Megalith though... does that thing unfold or something?? Imaging if you could power that...


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Svartmetall said:


> Love to know where that came from, since we staff only got our _June_ issues on Tuesday...


From my understanding the WD is printed 3 months out, so either the printer's or the distribution warehouse.

Or this is GW's way of viral marketing things.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Finally! Some proper stats for my Khorne Tank. I've been experimenting with rules to use, but something official would be awesome!


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

"You know what those guys need? A Tank, that comes in two halves, with a top humanoid part, with two arms and a chest cannon, and a bottom half that allows it to move, probably spider legs. Spider legs are cool."
"You mean a Defiler?"
"What, we've got one already? Right, lets change it up, put tracks on it instead."

Whatever next, Defilers on Pogo sticks? Yes, I do know it's a throw back to a Banelord, but christ sake,


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I will end up getting that model. I will give that giant chaos marine his legs back and convert the tank into a nice big chaos arty unit. But i do agree that apoc is getting a little silly. The plethora of superheavies reduces the number of infantry on the table in an apoc game. It has started to happen with us too.
And i do have to use a ute(pickup) to transport my army.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

So, I'm thinking: body from that huge Khorne thingy + Dreadknight legs = Chaos Knight Titan


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Loving that gun arm, love the tank portion, hate that head and gut.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Um...if you don't like the huge models....don't buy them?

I love that thing! I've always loved the old Lord of Battles. Good to see it back.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

I'm quite happy. That's exactly what chaos players needed; a giant tank-robot-demon-knight-brewery. It's not like we needed new plastic cult troops or chaos bikers or havoks or anything like that.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Bit late there eh Klokk? :laugh:


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I'm quite happy. That's exactly what chaos players needed; a giant tank-robot-demon-knight-brewery. It's not like we needed new plastic cult troops or chaos bikers or havoks or anything like that.


I'm sorry, did I hear complaining from someone who has an army whose range is at least 85% plastic? My all metal Sisters of Battle (who will most likely not get any fun toys for Apoc. Again.) would like to have a word with you about how the only all plastic kit they have is the Immolator (it's a rhino kit with an extra sprue. That's it. Probably cost GW less to do that than it cost them to make the actual Rhino) and how they have one of the only remaining plastic and metal kits in the range.

Seriously, try to tone down the first world problems a bit. There are about a hundred different units that need to be updated or made into a plastic kit. Quit acting like your army is the only one and enjoy the fact you actually -get- new toys unlike some of us.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Zion said:


> I'm sorry, did I hear complaining from someone who has an army whose range is at least 85% plastic? My all metal Sisters of Battle (who will most likely not get any fun to...


Chill out, it was intended as more a lighthearted joke than a serious nerd-rage hater complaint.

My pseudo-point was exactly what you just pointed out; rather than spending all this time and effort to release a new giant kit, they could've produced one of the many units with no models OR updated some of the older outdated models, like say... I don't know? The SoB model range.

Am I not even allowed to jokingly complain about GW anymore?


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Chill out, it was intended as more a lighthearted joke than a serious nerd-rage hater complaint.
> 
> My pseudo-point was exactly what you just pointed out; rather than spending all this time and effort to release a new giant kit, they could've produced one of the many units with no models OR updated some of the older outdated models, like say... I don't know? The SoB model range.
> 
> Am I not even allowed to jokingly complain about GW anymore?


You must not read as many posts around the internet as me than or you'd know people actually say stuff like that will full seriousness.

With the escalated release schedule we're looking at GW's quarterly budget (yes, the should be operating on one) being stretched thinner, thus leading to less new kits in a given release. For Sisters to be updated they'll need to be updated during a quarter with an army that is getting less new stuff than the we've been seeing. Likely a 5th Edition book like Necrons, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar or Grey Knights who got a lot of stuff in 5th and need rules updates to adjust them to the current edition and maybe one or two kits to add stuff in or cover any gaps.

That goes double for the Marines because they could get whatever the Space Marines are getting + a sprue to tweak it to be theirs (cuts development costs).

Long story short: the money doesn't go that far. Expect a couple things in each release, not a lot and expect Sisters to come out in the same quarter as an army that's not getting as much new stuff.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

The arguement against the big model would be more valid if that wasn't a really old model that is finally made into a kit. Does not shock me that they base it on a Baneblade chassis as that injection mold was blood expensive for them to make, still probably the most expensive one they have made.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

djinn24 said:


> The arguement against the big model would be more valid if that wasn't a really old model that is finally made into a kit. Does not shock me that they base it on a Baneblade chassis as that injection mold was blood expensive for them to make, still probably the most expensive one they have made.


That's the thing for me, GW has been reviving ideas from Epic and older 40k in general (supplement books to play specifically flavoured armies? 3rd Ed Space Marines did that) and that's good. They're taking steps to bring in stuff we liked from long ago (depending on how you view how long again "pre-4th" was) which shows that they're trying to appeal to the more veteran players instead of just catering to a quick turnover from younger folks and tourney players.

Now I get it. Not everyone's sense of taste is the same, but I personally feel that giving models a chance and actually seeing them on the table is a better way to judge how they look that a cellphone image of a static cover shot. I've found I tend to like the models 100x more when I can see them properly (though the 360* spinny view works pretty well too).


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## Madden (Jan 22, 2012)

It may be based on a baneblade but check the tracks there not regular and are lower at the rear so I'd say new mold. Either way YES!! a super size chaos kit and redone apoc what a nice way to start a Monday.


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## revilo44 (Sep 17, 2010)

It looks alright but I still think it looks like a khorne parade float.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Madden said:


> It may be based on a baneblade but check the tracks there not regular and are lower at the rear so I'd say new mold. Either way YES!! a super size chaos kit and redone apoc what a nice way to start a Monday.


You are correct. Some eagle-eyed folks have spotted that the tracks have the symbol of Khorne on them.



revilo44 said:


> It looks alright but I still think it looks like a khorne parade float.


I'd say no more than the Epic models it seems to be drawing influence from:


















I've seen mentioning of one or the other being the influence for this model, but honestly I think both are.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> The arguement against the big model would be more valid if that wasn't a really old model that is finally made into a kit. Does not shock me that they base it on a Baneblade chassis as that injection mold was blood expensive for them to make, still probably the most expensive one they have made.


At first I thought it was on a baneblade chassis too, but looking closer it looks like its a different 'track layout' than the baneblade. It is difficult to tell from the image though, so I could be mistaken.

EDIT: POO-POO! Ninja'd by Madden.



Zion said:


> You must not read as many posts around the internet as me than or you'd know people actually say stuff like that will full seriousness.


I don't really see any problem with that. Some people don't like stuff and most of them like to over-exaggerate their opinions for dramatic effect and to get noticed. I don't really see a problem with people stating that they don't like something.



Zion said:


> With the escalated release schedule we're looking at GW's quarterly budget (yes, th...
> ...ct Sisters to come out in the same quarter as an army that's not getting as much new stuff.


Wait a minute, slow down a little, you're hurting my tiny, stupid, brain with all your big words. You mean they don't have a very-very-very-big amount of spendy-barter-paper to use making things and they can only making or giving out a few things each month? Gee-Wizz, what are you going to teach me next? Please let it be how to turn my TV on. I've just been standing in front of it throwing my remote at it and screaming abuse at it using my talky-round-hole.

Joking (slightly) aside; you don't need to explain budgeting 101 to me, despite what the doctors say I'm not a r'tard. I'm also well aware of why GW has decided to release a giant tank-robot-demon-knight-brewery and not another more 'practical' kit. I used my skills of observation to notice the giant bold 'WARHAMMER 40,000 APOCALYPSE' and my skills of deduction and insight to put the pieces together. Admittedly my tiny brain struggled with the problem but eventually I managed to nut it out and piece it all together. It was the butler!

I was also just using SoB as an example because you specifically mentioned them. Lets not kid ourselves they're probably going the way of the dinosaurs, I don't see them getting a DE style revamp.

What was this thread about again?




Just to be 100% clear (and also join the condescending bandwagon) I've placed all the 'light-hearted jokes & sarcasm that are NOT angry and/or nerd-rage attacks' in lovely soothing orange text.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I don't really see any problem with that. Some people don't like stuff and most of them like to over-exaggerate their opinions for dramatic effect and to get noticed. I don't really see a problem with people stating that they don't like something.


The problem is that it's next to impossible to tell when someone is sarcastically joking about such things, hence my reaction. There was no sign that you were not being 100% serious (joys of text based communications systems not conveying emotional or body language cues and all that) so that was the way I read it.





ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Wait a minute, slow down a little, you're hurting my tiny, stupid, brain with all your big words. You mean they don't have a very-very-very-big amount of spendy-barter-paper to use making things and they can only making or giving out a few things each month? Gee-Wizz, what are you going to teach me next? Please let it be how to turn my TV on. I've just been standing in front of it throwing my remote at it and screaming abuse at it using my talky-round-hole.





ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Joking (slightly) aside; you don't need to explain budgeting 101 to me, despite what the doctors say I'm not a r'tard. I'm also well aware of why GW has decided to release a giant tank-robot-demon-knight-brewery and not another more 'practical' kit. I used my skills of observation to notice the giant bold 'WARHAMMER 40,000 APOCALYPSE' and my skills of deduction and insight to put the pieces together. Admittedly my tiny brain struggled with the problem but eventually I managed to nut it out and piece it all together. It was the butler!




The reason I brought up budgeting in regards to how GW releases is that it's something that escapes most people. I've actually heard someone claim that they felt GW should have given Eldar a release like DE, despite the differences in how they were releasing things then (about 1 release a quarter) and now (about a release a month). The fact that GW doesn't have an endless pile of cash to pour into every release is a fact that actually escapes some people. So that's the only reason I even brought it up.



ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I was also just using SoB as an example because you specifically mentioned them. Lets not kid ourselves they're probably going the way of the dinosaurs, I don't see them getting a DE style revamp.


I'm less pessimistic about the fate of the Sisters than you then. Dark Eldar, Necrons and Grey Knights should have trained GW's accountants to realize updating old armies makes you a lot of money. Now considering taking an army like Sisters (all metal) and updating them to plastic (like they did Dark Eldar), not only will you be selling models to all the players who don't play that army currently, nearly everyone who already does will also buy said models to update their army.

I honestly do think that the visual design of the Sisters has been a long running issue that has kept them from being released in plastic. With GW using digital modelling software on more and more releases, and the similar problems they encountered (hanging cloth namely) with Dark Eldar (who have less of it, but require you to work around it regardless because they have it on both the front and back, unlike say Marines who only wear cloth on their front side, or dress in full robes which can be made solid) I feel that they've got the tools to fix the problems and release models, and they might even be producing them now (production runs on releases seem to start the year prior to release if not even longer ago than that), but it wasn't something we were going to see right away back during 5th, and still won't see right away now because of the way they plan their budget.




ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> What was this thread about again?


It was about big robot things that the internet is raging about despite GW rather blatantly trying to appeal to the more veteran gamers with things like Knight class Titans and models inspired by Epic. It just got sidetracked a bit.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Well he looks suitably meaty and dangerous blood for the blood god ! wonder what other wonders we shall be seeing?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Crystal Towers of Tzeentch would be cool. (I think thats what they are called). It'd be nice to see of the style that they have been putting into the fantasy war engines into 40k. I haven't really liked the fantasy stuff because its been too small. Apoc doesn't have that problem!


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> Crystal Towers of Tzeentch would be cool. (I think thats what they are called). It'd be nice to see of the style that they have been putting into the fantasy war engines into 40k. I haven't really liked the fantasy stuff because its been too small. Apoc doesn't have that problem!


You mean silver towers 

I always thought silver towers would be good as they can potentially double up as scenery and as they run more by magic than mechanics they could potentially find a way into fantasy. Would have made more sense than a soul grinder! 

Could also see the nurgle plague tower made into a kit, theres a pic of a conversion in Apoc reloaded. Potentially they could try to make a slaanesh subjugater as well.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

What do you think Marines will be getting for Apoc?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> What do you think Marines will be getting for Apoc?


*MOAR ASSETS!!!*

You wanted a full plastic model range, the biggest of all the armies in 40k, AND an Apocalypse special? Fuck you, good sir, go dump your money on a Thunderhawk.

Midnight


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

MidnightSun said:


> *MOAR ASSETS!!!*
> 
> You wanted a full plastic model range, the biggest of all the armies in 40k, AND an Apocalypse special? Fuck you, good sir, go dump your money on a Thunderhawk.
> 
> Midnight




Was just wondering heh, really getting into my marine army now since going to my local GW store and I want to expand it.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

With GWs love of dual kits, has anyone considered that the "lord of battle" thing might have a tower of skulls option too?

It is already in the rules books so would be a nice kit addition.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Bubblematrix said:


> With GWs love of dual kits, has anyone considered that the "lord of battle" thing might have a tower of skulls option too?
> 
> It is already in the rules books so would be a nice kit addition.


or they will release it as a separate kit using this as a base kit like they did with the shadow sword.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> What do you think Marines will be getting for Apoc?


Probably some dead retarded titan sized walker.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Whatever next, Defilers on Pogo sticks?


Ah, that would be the Slaanesh knob hopper


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## Kettu (Nov 20, 2007)

Bindi Baji said:


> Ah, that would be the Slaanesh knob hopper


This is honestly all that I can think of here.
My mind isn't even visualising anything else here but this.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

*LINK to giant flying Monoliths: *

LINK

EDIT: Beaten to it, still never hurts having it here for anyone who finds the thread.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> *LINK to giant flying Monoliths: *
> 
> LINK
> 
> EDIT: Beaten to it, still never hurts having it here for anyone who finds the thread.


Yeah, I put that into the Apoc 40k thread. I was going to combine that thread and this one but I couldn't get it to put the summary post on top to keep it tidy.


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## IanC (Sep 3, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Was just wondering heh, really getting into my marine army now since going to my local GW store and I want to expand it.


Most popular army user complaining about possible lack of new kits, YAWN.

I suspect there will be a general Imperial option rather than space marines.

Im just pissed that 40k are getting two updates in a row. Fantasy better get two in a row.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

IanC said:


> Im just pissed that 40k are getting two updates in a row. Fantasy better get two in a row.


This isn't the first time 40k has gotten "two in a row", nor will it be the last. Now if I can direct your attention to the rumoured release schedule (found here) you'll see that we're expecting Lizardmen in August, something Specialist (rumours of Bloodbowl still exist) in September, followed by Marines in October, followed by a Fantasy release in November (might be Dark Elves, which would make sense seeing as they seem to be targeting the magic heavy armies first for update).

So to answer your post, no, there is no "two in a row" expected for Fantasy.

Furthermore, under the old release schedule July has always been a vacant month because little Timmy is off on Holiday with his Mum and Dad. Putting Apoc there is a smart move that caters to those who tend to play it: veterans with larger collections and pocket books and are more likely to be working during July, thus able to afford it.

This is just a smart move all around honestly.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Anyone else noticed that the big monolith has wraiths on the side and that there are wraiths below it - I call that it carries and drops them - which sounds nasty.

Can't wait to see a better pic of what is inside, c'tan sounds likely and should look pretty damned cool.


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## Cougar (Feb 28, 2012)

the big one just looks like the smaller one but open.....
May just be one just with two profiles.


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I'm quite happy. That's exactly what chaos players needed; a giant tank-robot-demon-knight-brewery. It's not like we needed new plastic cult troops or chaos bikers or havoks or anything like that.


Good point well made. Hopefully the Lord of Battles/Blood Knight/Banelord/whatever they are calling it will be usable in Daemon armies as well though. I do agree that Havocs and Chaos Cult Marines are well needed. Would love to see some plastic Noise Marines.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

Death Shroud said:


> Good point well made.


not really considering that the release is for Apocalypse and not a second wave of chaos models. Apocalypse has been outdated since the end fo forth edition and for those of us that play large scale games, desperately in need of a rules overhaul. It's only common sense that a new rulebook would get new models specifically for that style of play.

Release of basinc troops and units that can be played in standard games kinda defeats the point of releaseing them alongside apocalypse. it'd be like having released planetfall without the bastions or defence lines. 



> Hopefully the Lord of Battles/Blood Knight/Banelord/whatever they are calling it will be usable in Daemon armies as well though.


Acording to the apocalypse allies matrix deamon and csm armies are allowed to ally so they could be used in a deamon apocalypse army.



> I do agree that Havocs and Chaos Cult Marines are well needed. Would love to see some plastic Noise Marines.


i do too....just not as part of the apocalypse release.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

IanC said:


> Most popular army user complaining about possible lack of new kits, YAWN.


You mean, the whole one or two completely brand new kits in the what, 5 years since the codex was released?

Oh, what? You're lumping Black Templars, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Blood Angels in with the Space Marines? Right, gotcha.

Or, you know, the £80 Forgeworld kits that we can't play with because it's "paying to win" while someone else runs out there 9 Cron Flyers or Guard Vendetta's? Or you know, the amazing support of spending £60 on a single 10 man squad to get a new mark of power armour, individualised shoulder pads and a different appearance of bolt guns? Does that "support" include continual re-releases and "new releases" of totes-awesome character models and special characters/uniques that can cost up to £50 simply because they are Space Marines?

What about that £70 I spent on a book full of "toys" that I cannot use in a game, because it's Forgeworld?

So, if we're the most supported race, why is it we can't use the majority of the things we do get, or have to spend far above what every other comparable army does, and we're not even the most competitive out there.

Go and fucking yawn on.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

Vaz said:


> You mean, the whole one or two completely brand new kits in the what, 5 years since the codex was released?
> 
> Oh, what? You're lumping Black Templars, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Blood Angels in with the Space Marines? Right, gotcha.


Well seeing as it's an apocalypse thread and that a space marine is a space marine is a space marines....yeah.... it's not exactly a hard choice to add a blood angels/dark angels/black templar or space wolf squad to an apocalypse army is it? You swap out some shoulderpads and change the paint scheme to whatever chapter you use and voila a completely legal apocalypse unit.



> Or, you know, the £80 Forgeworld kits that we can't play with because it's "paying to win" while someone else runs out there 9 Cron Flyers or Guard Vendetta's? Or you know, the amazing support of spending £60 on a single 10 man squad to get a new mark of power armour, individualised shoulder pads and a different appearance of bolt guns? Does that "support" include continual re-releases and "new releases" of totes-awesome character models and special characters/uniques that can cost up to £50 simply because they are Space Marines?
> 
> What about that £70 I spent on a book full of "toys" that I cannot use in a game, because it's Forgeworld?
> 
> ...


It's apocalypse....i've never ever seen forgeworld turned away from an apocalypse game. "Sorry sir, we have to insist that you have to use a third party or scratch built warhound titan."
So with that in mind you could add all manner of chapter specific characters and units to the army. heck most of the forgeworld options could even be fielded as things without using forgeworld rules....contemptors as standard dreads...cataphracticus termies as normal termies. I would bet that there are dozen different dreadnaught patterns that you could use in apocalypse game. Not to mention the allies in the form of imperial guard, sisters, imperial navy. 
It's like space marine players will never be happy until every release is a space marine.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I was going to type out a long reply, then thought "fuck it". You're telling me to use allies as a viable reason as to why Space Marines are the most supported army out there?

The newest thing we got was access to the Stormtalon and Stormraven with Burning Skies or whatever it was called. When the 5th edition book came out in 08, the "new kits" were the same old things we had before; the Thunderfire was the one new thing we got, and it was utter gash until 6th edition made artillery useable.

While that's more than what Sister's got access to, I fail to see how Codex Space Marines are any more supported than any army that was updated after October '08.

But hey, it's Space Marines, right they get a brand new army with all these cool new toys, completely for free, all fully painted to match their existing army. They don't even have to pay for books. Because they can use allies to include them in their armies, durh.

If you're incapable of understanding what you just wrote, you've essentially said that prior to the Tau and Eldar updates, the 6th edition BRB was "supporting" those two armies because they became battle brothers. Which is completely untrue.

Getting 3 million different forms of shoulder pad is NOT supporting your army.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

Vaz said:


> I was going to type out a long reply, then thought "fuck it". You're telling me to use allies as a viable reason as to why Space Marines are the most supported army out there?


Yes, as the allies system for apocalypse bears no resemblance to the allies system in standard 40k games i think that's a fair statement. Even at minimum points level the space marines can pick from six different codexes full of power armoured goodies, no force organisation or minimum points spend required just so long as your army is 3000 points total. That's not including forge world rules. 



> The newest thing we got was access to the Stormtalon and Stormraven with Burning Skies or whatever it was called.


If you ignore the other flavours of marine that came out since 5th then absolutely. 



> When the 5th edition book came out in 08, the "new kits" were the same old things we had before; the Thunderfire was the one new thing we got, and it was utter gash until 6th edition made artillery useable.


 As well as an upgraded land raider with an additional weapon set, pedro kantor, The khan, the legion of the damned, sternguard and vanguard veterans, Vulkan h'stan, master of the forge, sergeant telion, droppods, venerable and ironclad dreads, land speeder storm...hardly anything really...



> While that's more than what Sister's got access to, I fail to see how Codex Space Marines are any more supported than any army that was updated after October '08.


again you're not quite catching the whole drift of the fact that apocalypse allows, and encourages, the use of allies from other armies.



> But hey, it's Space Marines, right they get a brand new army with all these cool new toys, completely for free, all fully painted to match their existing army. They don't even have to pay for books. Because they can use allies to include them in their armies, durh.


I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. You want new stuff for the marines but don't want to pay for new models or rulebooks and don't want to have to paint them.
You're right...how could i have been so blind. It's so unfair that space marine players might need to paint or convert their models slightly to match their army theme, or have to buy additional rulebooks to increase the number of units which they have access to. 



> If you're incapable of understanding what you just wrote, you've essentially said that prior to the Tau and Eldar updates, the 6th edition BRB was "supporting" those two armies because they became battle brothers. Which is completely untrue.


Apocalypse allies are not the same as standard 40k allies. Does the fact that Tau and Eldar are on the allies matrix mean that they were being supported? no because 2000 point games are at the upper end of the scale for your standard 40k game and having to compromise with force organisation means you need to be wary as to what you add and subtract. 
Allies are allowed from the very lowest level of apocalypse and are not constrained by the force organisation chart. 




> Getting 3 million different forms of shoulder pad is NOT supporting your army.


Getting multiple shoulderpads/guns/vehicle variants/types of bike is a lot more than most armies get. gaining the ability to choose from 6 different rule books in apocalypse without having to massively change the Aesthetic of the army is something that no one can do apart from space marines.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Open Letter to Vaz

I only play Apoch, and many of my CSM are converts, and the beauty of Apoch you may not be aware of is that you can design your very own data sheets and just about do anything you want, that is what Apoch is all about, you can combine any and all your Space Marines in one single Army of any points you want.

I combine both my 24,000 point CSM Bonecrushers of Achaylus (New name) and my 9,000 point Space Ork Army the Purple Skullz, in one large 33,000 point army, and i am going to over the next couple of years add a plethora of other Armies including Space Marines, i can do whatever i want.

Hope that helps.


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

Vaz said:


> I was going to type out a long reply, then thought "fuck it". You're telling me to use allies as a viable reason as to why Space Marines are the most supported army out there?
> 
> The newest thing we got was access to the Stormtalon and Stormraven with Burning Skies or whatever it was called. When the 5th edition book came out in 08, the "new kits" were the same old things we had before; the Thunderfire was the one new thing we got, and it was utter gash until 6th edition made artillery useable.
> 
> ...


god forbid you have to buy a new codex to have access to allied armies and their units like all the non-SM-playing plebs...

nevermind that you had access to "Ignores cover" template weapons before anyone else...


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