# Before the Emperor



## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

What was the human race like before the Emperor? How far had humanity expanded into the universe before he was named Emperor? Because there obviously wouldn't have been any Astartes there to help the Guard against Eldar and other races.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

SoL Berzerker said:


> What was the human race like before the Emperor? How far had humanity expanded into the universe before he was named Emperor? Because there obviously wouldn't have been any Astartes there to help the Guard against Eldar and other races.


Humanity had expanded galaxy wide before the Emperor- if anything the human race occupied more of the Galaxy before the Emperor than after.


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

I think they were called techno-barbarians or something like that. They fought among each other and stuff and then the Emperor united them.


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

From earth to Cadia and beyond, there might still be un-imperialized human worlds that are beyond the astronomican's light, the galaxy is a huge place after all..


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## VixusKragov (Feb 21, 2012)

Well if we're talking before he even existed I believe some fluff says shamanistic tribes, etc. If you mean before he came to power, same as other have said, humanity has expanded galaxy-wide but because of the warring human nature it wasn't nearly as unified as it is now and many worlds has lost their knowledge of most technology.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Alsojames said:


> I think they were called techno-barbarians or something like that. They fought among each other and stuff and then the Emperor united them.


The 'techno-barbarians' were the warlords who inhabited Terra during the Age of Strife. They were a result of humanities widescale backslide during this time. 

To the OP as Baron Spikey said Humanity had settled much of the galaxy. Whilst they didn't have the Astartes or the Guard they did have fully functioning STC systems, the Iron Men and other wondrous Dark Age technology. This period was humanity at the height of it's scientific progress.


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## Corporal Punishment 69 (Jul 8, 2012)

The Emperor was born in mesopatamia around 6,000bc when the shamans of earth commited mass suicide and combined their souls to form one super-being after they became aware that they were not reincarnating because chaos was eating their souls. I think this was in one of the 2 original RT era books about chaos, "Slaves to Darkness" and "The Lost and the Damned"....... So he has always been there, all the way through the dark age of technology, the age of strife etc....


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

I've always had a problem with the dichotomy in the 20K universe of the Eldar being the most powerful race in the galaxy, and generally distainful of humanity, with humanity being spread throughout the galaxy more successfully than during Imperial times. If the fall of the Eldar, birth of Slannesh, creation of the Eye kicked off the calming of the warp that allowed for the GC, then the Dark Age of Techology coincided with the Eldar supposedly being the most powerful/advanced race in the galaxy.

I suppose the Eldar could have just disdainfully ignored humanity, but find it hard to believe they would have allowed the hairless apes to expand throughout their empire without some serious slap-down.


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

> I suppose the Eldar could have just disdainfully ignored humanity, but find it hard to believe they would have allowed the hairless apes to expand throughout their empire without some serious slap-down.


but werent they starting to have massive, world spanning orgies by the time the dark age of technology and the human expansions started? I think it makes sense that the fall of the eldar started during M20 and ended with Slaanesh's birth at M30 (is it ever said when the hedonistic ways of the eldar start?)


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

redmapa said:


> but werent they starting to have massive, world spanning orgies by the time the dark age of technology and the human expansions started? I think it makes sense that the fall of the eldar started during M20 and ended with Slaanesh's birth at M30 (is it ever said when the hedonistic ways of the eldar start?)


That's entirely possible, their long slip into ennui with the birth of Slaanesh being the capstone. I suppose it's also possible that the Eldar really didn't care about any planet that wasn't directly connected to the webway and humanity was able to fit in between the cracks.

On the other hand, if the Dark Eldar represent the majority of Eldar before the Fall, then my issue still stands about the nasty buggers not taking an opportunity to sate their hunger on the Mon-keigh. Or they went back in time, captured Paris Hilton, and realized that some humans are just too narcissistic and kinky for even their extreme tastes :shok:


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## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

So during the dark age of technology when humanity had all the STC. I am assuming that humanity had better weapons and possible military than the current 40k . I'm assuming that is. 

But I always thought that the Elders had better technology than the human race even back in the dark age of technology. I always thought that the elders just look down on humanity and never saw them as a threat or something.


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## thebinman (Jun 18, 2010)

The eldars had started to forget the basis or their technology by then and degrade into what I can only describe as wanking babies!

I would imagine that they would be safely locked on their worlds, being able to use the webway for safe travel and be oblivious to what was happening around them. All food provision would have been automated, every whim catered for.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> I've always had a problem with the dichotomy in the 20K universe of the Eldar being the most powerful race in the galaxy, and generally distainful of humanity, with humanity being spread throughout the galaxy more successfully than during Imperial times. If the fall of the Eldar, birth of Slannesh, creation of the Eye kicked off the calming of the warp that allowed for the GC, then the Dark Age of Techology coincided with the Eldar supposedly being the most powerful/advanced race in the galaxy.
> 
> I suppose the Eldar could have just disdainfully ignored humanity, but find it hard to believe they would have allowed the hairless apes to expand throughout their empire without some serious slap-down.


It seems to be subtlety implied that the Human Federations maintained some form of "non-aggression pact" with the Eldar Empire, at least prior to the Empire's descent into total debauchery which itself brought about the Age of Strife. During the Age of Strife, human worlds and civilisations became isolated and lost and some would have inevitably been preyed upon by Eldar as they descended further into madness. But prior to the Age of Strife the two species seemed to co-exist relatively stably; the Eldar likely firm in their arrogant belief that humanity could have never challenged them.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

If you think about it, the golden age of technology human federation was at the zenith of technological development, every whim and need catered for by the legions of AI constructs maintaining everything. Had the machine rebellion not happened, then humanity could have taken a similar path to the eldar. Sliding into serious decadence and narcisism.

Having every need sated, eventually leads to boredom and being jaded with life, craving stronger and stronger stimuli. Which is the path to the depravities of slaanesh. I could imagine that the Emperor had a hand in the fall of the Golden Age civilization, nipping it severely in the bud to keep it from mirroring the decadence and eventually fall of the eldar.

And golden age tech was things of wonder, look at the castigator titan in Hammer of Daemons. And I remember from Priests of Mars, when the ancient Ark Mechanicus, Speranza is fully awakened, it activates terrible dark age weapons that the harrowing eldar cruiser finds itself utterly helpless against, such as a chrono cannon.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Corporal Punishment 69 said:


> The Emperor was born in mesopatamia around 6,000bc when the shamans of earth commited mass suicide and combined their souls to form one super-being after they became aware that they were not reincarnating because chaos was eating their souls. I think this was in one of the 2 original RT era books about chaos, "Slaves to Darkness" and "The Lost and the Damned"....... So he has always been there, all the way through the dark age of technology, the age of strife etc....


So what was the Emperor doing during the 30k years or so before he united the worlds?


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

Arcane said:


> So what was the Emperor doing during the 30k years or so before he united the worlds?


Hasnt it been mentioned somewhere before that the emperor had always been guiding humanity forward? Only when things got out of hand or beyond his means to control did he reveal himself and take the reins.

Pre great crusade perhaps or uniting terra utalising the thunder warriors?


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

He was guiding humanity and setting things up for his revealing. For example he caged a shard of the Void Dragon C'tan on Mars in Earth's early history to act as inspiration for its future settlers and form the Mechanicus for the purpose of supplying his Great Crusade. The Emperor was a long term thinker.


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## Tensiu (Aug 15, 2009)

So, basically, everything began with an orgy. I think it was nice beginning, even tho this orgy almost killed all participants.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

hmm, planning everything all along through all of mankind's post-stone age development. Seems like he could have planned for half his supermen betraying him and trying to take over the galaxy. Oops.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

I never said it was internally consistent. 

Still the Heresy involved the interference of actual gods, it's no doubt difficult to plan against their influence. As i recall the Emperor's usual prescience was clouded during the period.


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## Sangriento (Dec 1, 2010)

kwak76 said:


> So during the dark age of technology when humanity had all the STC. I am assuming that humanity had better weapons and possible military than the current 40k . I'm assuming that is.


yep, thats pretty much it.



kwak76 said:


> But I always thought that the Elders had better technology than the human race even back in the dark age of technology. I always thought that the elders just look down on humanity and never saw them as a threat or something.


again correct. 

pre-fall Eldar were self confident, arrogant but all around nice guys, in the vein "you dont attack me and i wont bother attacking you because Im too busy looking for new ways to have pleasure".

pre-Old Night Mankind was roughly the same, minding their own business, developing their technology and culture, spreading around the universe, stablishing warm relationships with any other friendly alien races, not only Eldars.

Makind wasnt the highly indoctrinated, super-aggresive expansionist, ultra-xenofobic bunch they are now.

So they simply made it work, Mankind didnt interfere in Eldar worlds, the Eldar didnt care who occupied the worlds they werent living in, and their scarce contacts were cold but amicable, or at the very least neutral, neither of them were interested in "shoot first ask later"


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Sangriento said:


> pre-fall Eldar were self confident, arrogant but all around nice guys, in the vein "you dont attack me and i wont bother attacking you because Im too busy looking for new ways to have pleasure".
> 
> pre-Old Night Mankind was roughly the same, minding their own business, developing their technology and culture, spreading around the universe, stablishing warm relationships with any other friendly alien races, not only Eldars.
> 
> ...


Your interpretation does beg the question why humanity then needed/wanted to develop the Men of Iron, who didn't seem to be there as menial labor, but as an uber-fighting force. As well, the former Eldar, from everything I've heard, were sadistic bastards much like the current 'Dark Eldar' and would have taken pleasure in taking issue with humanity.

As well, the STCs were developed because there were no reliable chains of supply and communication between the various human colonies... again from what I've been able to get my hands on. That humanity was spamming out colony ship across the galaxy does prove they still had 'hyper-aggressive expansionist' tendencies, just not the Warp technology to back it up with. That being the case, humanity could have either been at the predation of the Eldar all over the place, but humanity's cockroach-like nature just allowed us to spread faster than the Eldar could destroy the colonies. Or, the Eldar didn't want to bother getting into a fight with a race that had no real psychic ability or Warp travel capabilities, so were not associated with the Eldar's existential threat posed by Chaos.

If you can point me toward the materials you've drawn your assertions from I'd really appreciate it, as this period in the WH40K past is pretty cool.


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## mob16151 (Oct 20, 2011)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> *If you can point me toward the materials you've drawn your assertions from I'd really appreciate it, as this period in the WH40K past is pretty cool.*


I strongly suspect your both drawing your "ASSERTATIONS" from the same place lol.


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