# the skaven



## acheron187 (Feb 7, 2011)

I've been playing WH40K for about a year now and would like to find out what people who play fantasy think of the skaven. I saw this army and thought that they look really awesome, I chose my 40k army for the same reasons. and I would like to know if there are any really good perks to them.


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## burton001 (Jan 24, 2012)

Ive only had 1 army Skaven. And I would not change. Models are great, lots of different units like Doomwheel, Bell, Warpcannons. And hordes and hordes of clanrats. I have alot of fun with them, however the down side is alot of the weapons backfire. So alot of the time I kill my own units instead, but its part of the fun of it.


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## DecrepitDragon (Aug 2, 2011)

acheron187 said:


> I've been playing WH40K for about a year now and would like to find out what people who play fantasy think of the skaven. I saw this army and thought that they look really awesome, I chose my 40k army for the same reasons. and I would like to know if there are any really good perks to them.


Skaven? Really good perks? . . . .erm . . .

Oh yeah, there are Tons of them in your army!

But seriously though, there really are lots of rats in most skaven armies. Horde units tend to be ridiculously cheap for skaven, and when you combine that with the ranged weaponry they have (ratling guns, jezzails, poison wind globadiers . . .), they can be a force to be reckoned with.

The downside to all that though, is the fact that they tend to have less accurate or reliable shooting, that may kill as many rats as the enemy. The units stat lines are not great either - you really do get what you pay for with skaven. They are quick though so its not all bad. 

Some people will go on about how they have poor leadership, and I suppose in the main thats sort of true. However it is easily possible to write a list that minimises the problem - lots of ranks, characters and the battle standard, can give you a modest 8 or 9 leadership across the board.

The most important thing with Skaven though - if you kill some of your own troops on the way to victory, its been a good game. Accept that you _WILL_ lose units. Expect it, plan for it where you can, and use it in your overall plan. Slaves are ideal "throw away" units.

Hope that sheds a little light on the subject. I'm sure that some other regulars will be able to come up with more details, but thats the basics from my perspective.

Enjoy.:victory:


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Skaven have loads of numbers, lots of ways to take down both hoards and armour and basically have ever angle of the game sorted... they haven't got any areas where they are especially weak, unlike most other armies.
The downside to skaven is that while they are nasty to the enemy they also have an annoying habit of killing themselves... which I think makes the army a great one to play as its a lot of fun.

The BIGGER dowenside to skaven and why I will never be a skaven player is simply that I could not face painting that many models. Sure if you grab a big brush or spray and undercoat them and then drybrush a few colours and pick out a few details you'll have a decent looking army quite quickly, but I've never liked doing that... it just doesn't feel like painting to me.


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

DecrepitDragon said:


> Some people will go on about how they have poor leadership, and I suppose in the main thats sort of true. However it is easily possible to write a list that minimises the problem - lots of ranks, characters and the battle standard, can give you a modest 8 or 9 leadership across the board.


If the majority of your army does not have rerollable leadership 10 across the board then something's either gone spectacularly wrong or you've deliberately gimped your army to give the other guy a fighting chance.



Right now, Skaven are probably the strongest army in the game due to a combination of very solid magic, almighty warmachines, and rerollable leadership ten slaves for 2 points a pop.

Skaven warmachines tend to kill your own doods when they missfire - but they aren't actually less reliable than anyone else's.

Un fortunately, you pay for the power by sacrificing flavour.

Ask anyone to describe what the Skaven flavour is and they'll tell you: Hoards of worthless cowardly bastards supported by crazy warmachines that make Orc kontraptions look like a Swiss watch.

Ask them how Skaven actually play on the table? Hoards of courageous ultimate badasses supported by ultrapowerful warmachines that are not any less reliable than any other races.

Which is a shame. 

And the other replies are right, you will have to paint hundreds (litteraly, hundreds) of models.


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## DecrepitDragon (Aug 2, 2011)

Azezel said:


> If the majority of your army does not have rerollable leadership 10 across the board then something's either gone spectacularly wrong or you've deliberately gimped your army to give the other guy a fighting chance.


Thats true if you plan on tourney gaming, and absurd if you just fancy a friendly. Now I'm not about to get into the whole "which is a better way to play?" argument, but I feel that broadly speaking, how I described their Ld initially was accurate enough for a general description.

There are many ways to set up your skaven lists and I felt that the OP was after a run-down on how the army works generally. I'm sure there are many guys here on Heresy that can then help refine the OP's tactics, should Acheron ask for the specifics.

I certainly dont disagree with your evaluation of how they actually play though. They're always a tough army to face when played well.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Nah, even in friendly games almost all skaven units would be Ld9-10. A LD7 general somewhere in the center and 3 ranks on everything (it would be amazing if they didn't have 3 ranks) is already Ld10...

Things like doomwheels are not normally any better then Ld7 and will rarely have the reroll though: most use them on the flanks well away from general/BSB.


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

I played skaven for a long long time before eventually getting bored with the army. Don't get me wrong here I still love the army but almost one game in 3 was Skaven - versus Skaven which although fun for a bit eventually gets dull.

They are a great army to play and you can run lots of very different themes if you want (mine was Mulder - lots of Giant Rats and Rat Ogres with Stormvermin to make up the 25% core allowance) There is a special character that you can take which will let you use plague monks as core ect ect.

All in all they're a very good army but as Tim/Steve says the amount of models that you have to paint can (and does) get tedious. A generic skaven rule is that for every 10 points you must have a model so 100 models in a 1k list ect....


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

A freind of mine does a fairly elite skaven army, 60 plague monks with a furnace and 60 super stormvermin with Queek and a smattering of characters as the 2 main units and a pair of hellpits and assorted other warmachines, So if you don't enjoy mass painting you can go down this route as it's still fairly effective.


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

DecrepitDragon said:


> Thats true if you plan on tourney gaming, and absurd if you just fancy a friendly.


I agree. The honourable Skaven player will deliberately build his list badly in a friendly game. However, as Tim/Steve said - it's actually _very hard_ to do that.

There is an upper (or should that be lower?) limit to how bad you can make your list, even when actively trying.

Fact is, Skaven just weren't built with 8th ed in mind and no matter how hard you try to tone down their power, you have to work against the enormous boost 8th gives them.

@ the OP. Don't let any of this put you off. If Skaven are what you think is cool then by god you collect Skaven - just bare in mind the huge 'this army can win me games and lose me friends' possibilities which exist right now.


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## DecrepitDragon (Aug 2, 2011)

Azezel said:


> I agree. The honourable Skaven player will deliberately build his list badly in a friendly game. However, as Tim/Steve said - it's actually _very hard_ to do that.


A fair point, well made gents.

And like you say Azazel - Acheron, dont let the ins and outs of list building sway you too much till you've settled on Skaven. They're still immense fun to play, and play against if you have a sporting opponent. (And if they're not sporting, it wont matter what army they use).


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

For a beginner Fantasy player, it's an interesting army

Something formidable in every phase
easy access to well scuplted plastic models
fun art
options for easy conversions

however, the downside:
collecting a near infinite number of models
painting said models
risking pissing off players you've just met with the formidable 'every phase'

Skaven are very potent. One of the best out there, to be honest. The aformentioned 'every phase' is what makes them so potent.

*Movement*: Move 5 and some fast random movments
*Magic*: This is one of the places that Skaven go so far 'over the top' With "dreaded 13th" a spell that turns a unit of infantry into Rats...no saves allowed what-so-ever, can reduce the toughest elites into nothing. Phoenix guard, Chosen, Bestigors, Grave guard (oddly enough) are all turned to rats. Skaven will say 'well, it's a 25 value, so I have to throw everything!'. But with warp tokens, IF, power scroll ...it's going to go off 1-2 times a game. 3 if you're hosed. 
*Wither*; a very odd and crippling spell. -1 to your T. for the rest of the game. Yes. _the rest of the game_. Can you dispel it? Nope. it's there. You're stuck. 
* skitter leap*: sets up the best combos (which are very hard to stop) by hurling a cheap as dirt engineer with a devestating weapon behind your lines/along side.

*Combat*: most skaven are not the toughest guys one on one. However, it's never one on one. Slaves will outnumber most cheapest units by 2.5 to one or more. Their ranks provide higher leadership...and combine with the new steadfast rules. 
The Hellpit is one of the best monsters out there, arguably, the best with all the support that can be brought to bear. 
Skaven players often say "that unit is expensive!" re; rat ogres and Stormvermin, but they have their place and are just moderately priced . Frenzied plage monks make a mess out of everything.

Shooting.

this is where skaven bring it all together.
Some of the most effective barrages of artillery and cheap 'mini' units that add on like attachments. Very formidable. 

The cheap as dirt slave? The ones that will be shoved into your throats? Well, they have the one unit that denies a truth of Warhammer.

You can shoot into combat w/ slaves
and NOT hit the slaves.​
so what does that mean for you?
Your chosen that got across the field, braving the 13th, and shootin, can now get flame throwered/ratling-gun/ WLC and more IN Combat. With a long term ld 10 -re-roll, those slaves aren't going anywhere soon. 

Yes. skaven machines can misfire. 
So does everyone elses. 
Why this is such a small deal is that skaven mortars/ warp fire etc are so cheap and numerous that a misfire is really a 'meh'.
The slaves they killed? Maybe 20-30 points if you're lucky. 
Compare that to an empire cannon blowing up. Similar odds, right? 

Then you have 'pie plates' being dropped on your army with the doom rocket.

Really, it all goes on from there.
Skaven have the tools to handle any and all threats. They have the tools to tear most armies apart while sitting back and only feeding them 1-2 200 point units. till the skaven are ready to pick off the stragglers.

Skaven are good. Perhaps far too good.
People play them meaning to have fun, and get sucked into the 'zomg i can be the best power gamer'. Facing mortars and repeated dread 13th in a 'friendly game' can sour most people to skaven. 
Just play nice and enjoy it.



(or plaguemonks/furnace/flails etc)


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