# Mech Eldar Tactics



## forgotten hero (Nov 23, 2007)

Hey, 

Well, some of you may know, I'm a keen Mech Eldar player, (I can hear the scorn and foul words from here, but hear me out... :biggrin. 

I'm a very tactical minded player, so, I want to broaden my knowledge even more, and as this forum has so many players that regularly attend tournies and local events, I want to hear from you guys too, I thought this would be the best place to post this. 

I don't want people posting anything like 3x Falcon = win... if that was the case how come every 3 Falcon army didn't win every game in the GT's...? :wink:

So whats your tactics, how do you make your mech Eldar army win? 

Post lists + tactics to help put your case accross if needed! this thread is partly posted to help the new(er) people to mech Eldar as well as us Vets. 

Cheers.


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## USER1 (Mar 5, 2008)

Hello,

this is roughly my current 2k list.
You may not consider my army to be truly mech eldar but here goes,

HQ

Farseer + doom + mind war 

TROOPS

10x Avengers + ex + bladestorm + defend + 2xgun
+ wave serpent + sc + sl +stones + vector e

10x Avengers + ex + bladestorm + defend + 2xgun
+ wave serpent + sc + sl +stones + vector e

ELITES

6x Harlequins + shadowseer + 6 kisses

6x Scorpions + ex + stalk + shadowstrike + chain sabres

6x Fire dragons + ex + flamer + crack shot (in falcon)

FAST

5x Warp spiders + ex + 2x guns

6x Hawks + ex + sunrifle + intercept

3x Shining spears + ex + L lance + S cannon

HEAVY

Wraithlord + sc + SL

Wraithlord + sc + SL

Falcon + SC + SL + Holo + stones + vectored

Explanations;

My general aproach with this list is to pick a flank to send most of my force down and infiltrate the scorpions onto that flank. this puts the scorpions in position to support the dire avengers and fire dragons when they disembark. The harlequins also follow the transports to support the shooty units. 

The two wraithlords and doomseer move up the middle of the board drawing as much attention to themselves as possible. as it moves forward this trio draws a lot of fire from my other forces and restricts my opponents movement from one side of the board to the other.

Warp spiders and sometimes the spears move down the other flank using jump shoot jump to stay alive whilst distracting my opponent from my main force.

This is not a hugely competative list but works well for me and is fun to use.

Any comments/ suggestions are welcome.


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## O'sharan (Nov 3, 2007)

^Mech Eldar?

not being an eldar player I cant give lists, but i can tell you how to beat them thus what to avoid

Stun falcon/prism them leave them, unless they carry harliquines
After first stun ignore them
Take out rest of army

Works for me every time.
Prisms are alot more scare for firepower, stun them, hunt the falcons cause they cant hit something the size of a planet but normally carry something more deadly

In terms of GT

Lists with harlies sometimes strugled with escalation,
mixeture of faclon/prism seem to do best.
Also there where loads of *anti-mech eldar* lists out there, i mean a tau player with the most strength 7 in any 1500 point list ever. Worked out that those list did poor against *non mech eldar* lists thus if you played *mech eldar* and climbed to the top tables fast enough, got a bit of luck in the draw, you could finish in the top 20 easy.

My 2 cent


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## USER1 (Mar 5, 2008)

a space goat eh? i find star engines get the jump on your sort (unless you get picky with the wording of their rules).

lots of strength 7 does the job though which is why i hate looters.

your right about prisms. to easy to prevent from shooting and wepon destroyed ends them.


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## O'sharan (Nov 3, 2007)

Can you explain the star engine thing?

I like space clown better! lol :biggrin:

Never use 3 falcon/harly or 3 prisms as it make your oppoenets tactics much to easy!


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## USER1 (Mar 5, 2008)

dont have dex to hand at mo but basicly the rules for fast tanks moving an extra 12" and the rules for star engines moving you an extra 12" both state that they are done instead of shooting so there is an argument that you cant use both together. this interpretation means star engines do nothing. interestingly this wording works with the proposed 5th ed rules. GW planning ahead? or just being crap?


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## moc065 (Oct 31, 2007)

As a tourny player, I can tell you from experience that Eldar vehicles can most certainly move to a max 24" and then use Star Engines to move anouther 12" for a total of 36" move if you like.

I can also tell you that your list will probably not make it and here are the things that you need to consider to correct it:

Anti-tank 12 units and you only have 3-4 with some serious anti-tank
Anti-power armour Your mass shooting will help; but even that is not enough
Anti-Infantry Here I think your OK
Assault Scorpions will not help that much, nor will a Min/Max Spear squad, so all you have is a baby Harlequin squad.
Ranged shooting Not bad
Mobile shooting Not bad
Flexibility Escalation would kill you, and certain other mission/scenerios common to tournies would cripple you as well.
Resilience A lot of Min/Max squads and many of them are not resilient.
Synergy Your Farseer is prettywell stuck being close to your Wraithlords, so smart opponents will exploit this. Next the DA only really work well together or with the FD's in the Falcon, so that is too predictable again. I will not go on; but in general you will get outplayed in many cases. 

I wil not tell you how to fix the list, as I have no clue to what figures you own. But in general you need to many things better in order to competitive.

If you wnat more help, then ask; but let me know where you want the list to go in the end, and what figures have to stay, what you have, etc.


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## USER1 (Mar 5, 2008)

thanks for the feedback. my list has been shaped by orks and DE recently so your prob right about the anti tank although i have been ok with the odd land raider and monolith showing up. the list may have trouble with lots of armour though.

could you explain your point on synergy a little more. how would you exploit the wlords and seer? i think it would be best to ignore them as they are slow and not to shooty but my opponents tend to waste a lot of fire on them. didnt understand the DA bit sorry, could you elaborate?

i have spent much time considering aspect warrior squad sizes and am still not sure what is best. as you can see i use small squads as i play to not get shot rather than soak up wounds (is this not the eldar way?). also due to the exarchs some aspects are more points efficient in smaller numbers. what are the best arguments for larger squads?

dosnt escalation cause trouble for any mech army?

on star engines: i use them like this and i know tournies use them like this however there are people out there who try it on!


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## moc065 (Oct 31, 2007)

> thanks for the feedback. my list has been shaped by orks and DE recently so your prob right about the anti tank although i have been ok with the odd land raider and monolith showing up. the list may have trouble with lots of armour though.


If you face an all infantry Marines list, or a list that is fast with Armour your in trouble. One simple thing would be to get more EML's into your list (BL and EML Wraithlords are one of the quickest fixes)



> could you explain your point on synergy a little more. how would you exploit the wlords and seer? i think it would be best to ignore them as they are slow and not to shooty but my opponents tend to waste a lot of fire on them. didnt understand the DA bit sorry, could you elaborate?


Since I know that you Farseer has to stay close to your Wraithlords, he will not be able to Doom anything that stays outside of hte bubble, thus I can ignore that area until I am ready to "Rush" the Wraithlords and tie them down with CC. About the DA, their Serpents can be a liability, mass shooting intot hem for a turn, and the DA are grounded... because both squads are the same, anything I have that can deal with one unit, will be equally effective on the other. I know they are good shooters, but they are not that great on their own, so they are limited to working with specific units you have. Its predictable and therefore smart opponents will take advantage of it. I am not saying they are bad, what I am saying is that they need a tweek to be even more effective and possibly unpredictable.



> i have spent much time considering aspect warrior squad sizes and am still not sure what is best. as you can see i use small squads as i play to not get shot rather than soak up wounds (is this not the eldar way?). also due to the exarchs some aspects are more points efficient in smaller numbers. what are the best arguments for larger squads?


OK, less than 4 of anything means the first casualty (from shooting) will cause a LD test so all units that are this small need to be able to never be shot at. 1 or 2 units are OK, you just have too many of them in this situation.



> dosnt escalation cause trouble for any mech army?


Add an Autarch and Escalation can actually work in your favour.


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## USER1 (Mar 5, 2008)

as i described in my explanations the purpose of the wlords and seer id to draw fire and limit my opponents movement. if you try to stay out of doom range with them moving forward each turn you will have trouble and are making them more effective. tie wlords up in cc? they are MCs and can step back in my turn and double flamer anything that tries that! once again the point of them is to draw attackers away from my flimsy stuff so again this is what i want you to do.

on the avengers: are you suggesting that two of any unit is bad? or that wave serpents are bad? eldar units always need to support each other this is obvious and of course i can only support them with units i have. what tweak would make them unpredictable?

i do find myself wishing for an autarch in escalation but despite doing a jetbike conversion i have stopped using them as a decent one costs as much as an aspect squad and isnt as useful. IMO.

i dont know what more to say on the to many small squads point, i hide them and it works they dont get shot. i dont see it being effective or fluffy to field any eldar models with the purpose of getting sho


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## moc065 (Oct 31, 2007)

It is not effective or fluffy to have Eldar get shot, so you should be hiding them; but what do you do when you run into a faster army (such as a truely fast Eldar army) ? Also I am not saying that 2 of anything is not effective, what I am saying is that as mcuh as like units can compliment you, they will also be a cruz if the enemy can deal with them; thuse they simply need to be optimized (I think EML's on your Serpents would help for those games when you don't want to "Rush" the opponent). And I didn't say to stay out of Doom Range so much as avoid it (ther eis a difference), I said that I would stay out of Doom Range until ready to deal with the Wraithlords/Farseer. If you advance on turn 1, then often I would respond by actually dealing with them in the next round. 

Example,
(113) 6 FD's: Exarch with DBF and CS.
(185) Falcon: Pulse, SL, Cat, HF, VE, and SS.
(113) 6 FD's: Exarch with DBF and CS.
(185) Falcon: Pulse, SL, Cat, HF, VE, and SS.
Move both forward, dis-embark FD's and shoot the WL's with everything, and as a bonus the DBF may even happento cover the Farseer as well. Yes you would probably be able to nuke the FD's right after; but your most resilient units are gone, and I doubt that you can deal with both the Falcons from this point on...

Now you say that you could still have Doomed things, Maybe... what If I also happen to have a Farseer with Runes of Warding (like yours should have)... now you have to use the extra dice while casting your Doom (or Mindwar) so in all likelyhood, he will get a Perils hit soon enough. 

Example
(123) Fasreer on Jetbike; Spear, Runes of Warding, and Mindwar.
This guy becomes so versatile as he can certianly pick out figures as needed; but he is also an Anti-tank unit.
(140) Autarch on Jetbike; Laserlance, Mandiblasters, and Fusion-Gun.
Here is yoru Stratagy rating increase, your bonus to reserve rolls, more anti-tank, and something that will help augment you CC if needed. 

Now, on to the DA... I actually think that the Serpents are the "Worst" part of them, not that they are bad in themselves; but that because you only have 3 Grav Tanks, and 2 are Serpents, a smart opponent will know how to deal with them. Yes I know that you can move, dis-embark and have some really good shooting; especially if you get Doom working. But what if you run into a Faster, even more subversive army ? Saim-Hann lists are gross for hiding stuff, so shooting is often not an option until mid game. And a good general will be able to actually "Plow" right through Dire Avengers. with things that that can get into and out of CC. And then he will leave a Holding unit tied up with them, to build a Close Combat Wall to hide his whole army behind.

Example
(162) 6 Harlies: Shadowseer, 6 kisses.
(187) 4 Shining Spears: Exarch with Skilled Rider and Withdraw (try to guess who goes with this squad).
(215) 7 Jetbikes: 2 Shuri-cannons, includes Warlock with Enhance and Spear.
In a concerted effort (and placement won't be that hard to figure out) the Harlies, Spears, Autarch and Jetbikes could all hit the DA in one shot. After the damage is done, the Harlies, Spears & Autarch all withdraw behind the CC wall left by having the 6 JB's strrung out across both DA squads, or one of them at least. 

So far I have only shown you 1350pts out of 2K, so I have 650pts left to deal with the rest of your army.

(185) Falcon: Pulse, SL, Cat, HF, VE, and SS. 
(76) 3 Jetbikes: 1 shuricannon.
(196) 8 Warp Spiders: Exarch with DDS and Withdraw.
(120) 5 Pathfinders. (often used for 1st turn Assaults so plese don't think of them as being slow. They are part of the Wild-Card factor.)

2K, 11 Scoring Units, 50 Figures. Every unit has Anti-tank potential. The combination of Rending, PW's, AP=1, etc gives it plenty of Anti-power armour. It has plenty of Mass shooting and/or Close Combat to deal with infantry, not to mention the flamers. It certainly has ranged shooting, and mobile shooting (as almost everything can move and shoot), and enough CC potential. Finally it is very flexable in regard to missions, enemies, etc; it has a lot of resilience built into it and although I have shown you a couple ways it can work synergetically, I think you will easily see how its versatiliy actually helps it work in several other manners to make it a little unpredictable as well. This is not the best 2K list I have seen (Hybrid list can be better for scoring Massacres); but I have seen this 2K of Very Fast Eldar do pretty well in real games, and so far, no one has shown any dominence over it.


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## USER1 (Mar 5, 2008)

i am aware how effective three falcons are and have avoided them in the hope of retaining friends. theres nothing clever about it but it will win a lot.

"if you do this ill do this" arguments are generally pretty pointless but i have time on my hands so: 

as you say the dragons will die if you take the wlords with them and if the lords are in cover you may not kill them. remeber that the point of the wlords is to get shot.

a smart general wouldnt get his DAs out in charge range of any of the stuff you mention other than to kill it, only a moron would. i mean a complete moron. its not goin to happen. unless they are not in serpents of course.

havent played a sam hann army, against mobile armys a lot more thinking is required and there is usually a lot of "dancing" until some one makes a mistake.


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## moc065 (Oct 31, 2007)

Sorry I mis-posted one unit.

(196) 8 Warp Spiders: Exarch with DDS and Withdraw. As it should have read.

*(196) 7 Warp Spiders: Exarch with DDS, Power Blades, and Withdraw.*

Sorry if I confused anyone, I sometimes type faster than I think. Oh and that actually puts the list at 49 figures, not 50.

CaHG


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## moc065 (Oct 31, 2007)

USER1 said:


> i am aware how effective three falcons are and have avoided them in the hope of retaining friends. theres nothing clever about it but it will win a lot.
> 
> "if you do this ill do this" arguments are generally pretty pointless but i have time on my hands so:
> 
> ...


The point about the Falcon's and aeverything else I listed as being Mounted or Fast is that I thought the name of your thread was "Tactica Mech Eldar" yet when I read it, you had several Footslogging units. I know that 3 Flacons look cheesy, and at <2K I would certainly never take more than 2... but at 2K in tournies you will run into a lot of non-composition balanced lists. The Chaos Bomb reeks of Cheese, as do the Nidzilla that you will most problaby run into at 2K, and anyone that says a Falcon is cheese, simply doesn't understand how to deal with them.

The 2K list I showed you (is Saim-Hann styled) is conseidered fully Mech. But you could certainly do Mech armies without having 2 Flacons. Here are a few more options that work very well in "Mech" Eldar armies. Oh and by the way, blocking the Doors on 2 Serpents is realitively easy if your fast enough, thats why I simply stated you that need more speed to compliment your Wave Serpents. Here are some options for yout to consider:

*Mini-Jetbike Council*
Farseer on Jetbike, Fortune, RoWard, Spear.Jetbike Warlock, Enhance and Spear
Jetbike Warlcok, Embolden and Spear
Jetbike Warlock, Destructor
Jetbike Warlock, Destructor
Warlock Jetbike.​
*Multiple Serpents*
3+ Wave Serpents, all with Stones, Vectored Engines, and EML's, etc.
They can provide long ranged shooting for those times that you don't start the Infantry inside, then with a coulple units of DA and a Couple units of Banshees you have a good mix of Shoot and Assault.

*Plus Falcon/Fireprism(s) *
2 Falcons with FD's or simply 2 Fireprisms to give some dedicated Anti-tank.

*Jetbikes, Spiders, Hawks, Vypers*
Obviously they are different so they all need to be sed in conjunction with your other choses and in the right ratios. The Jetbikes and Vypers can add Mobile support, while Spiders give Mass shooting, and Hawks can often fill in the gaps while Shining Spears can add extra Punch.

On final note on Mech Eldar... It may do well overall, but even using 3 falcons does not guarentee a win, if you meet up with a guy that knows how to limit your table options, block your doors, keep you shaken, etc... Falcons are not the end all win all that some think they are. You sound like you know a thing or two about Eldar, I was simply letting you know what is out there and what you will run into, so you better be ready for it. Oh and its funny that the last guy that actually called one of my "Real Life" tourney lists Cheese was running a Space Marine list with 17 (yes I counted them) Assault Cannons in it. I didn't think his list was Cheesy, in fact I thought he lost quite easily (dropped his fastest stuff, moved on to his best ranged stuff, and then concentrated on those poor Terminators that were left)

CaHG


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## USER1 (Mar 5, 2008)

i wasnt sure weather my list would be considered truly mech but thought id post it here anyway (not my thread). how many skimmers have you got away with in the past? i would like to field more but worry about hiding them if i dont get turn 1. wlords are useful to hide behind if it gets desperate.

I tried a trio of warlocks on bikes with destructors and spears and they were cool but cost quite a bit, a big bike council would be very cool (a lot of work though).

Falcons and cheese: i dont think there are any lists that shouldnt be fielded and none are unbeatable, there are lists that my opponents wont enjoy though and i avoid these as a personal choice. Definatly nothing wrong with having the gloves off at a tourny.


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