# Origin of the Grey Knights.



## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Well i picked up the horus heresy Collected Visions and found this little Tid-bit you guys might like

"Sire, these others are known to you. Each of them is a space marine. They have cast aside their allegiance to primarch and legion who have sided with Horus and pledged themselves anew to you, Their emperor and father. I have chosen these eight since allied to their unflinching Loyalty they each are blessed with paranormal skills, Kept dormant in respect of your previous commands. However these skills are most apt in combating the horrors that have recently emerged from the warp and i h know they will be needed in the coming years"

"Malcador you have judged well, these eight space marines do indeed have a vital role to play in the future of the imperium, though veiled in secrecy will they be."

Thus we have the creation of the grey knights! It doesn't say who the Eight marines are but from hints and what seems apparent they are most likely

-Nathanial Garro
-Garvial Loken
-Iacton Qruze
-Nero Vipus (maybe?)
-Zahariel 
-Saul Tarvitz
other 2?????

i dunno but i thought it was an interesting little chat there.


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> Thus we have the creation of the grey knights! It doesn't say who the Eight marines are but from hints and what seems apparent they are most likely
> 
> -Nathanial Garro
> -Garvial Loken
> ...


How did you manage to come to the conclusion that Zahariel is one? He's a traitor, a Fallen Angel- Tarvitz is probably dead, same for Nero Vipus, and Loken is the otherside of the Galaxy.


----------



## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

Garro does sound like the most obvious option to be one of the 8. He becomes more interesting by the second... Don't really know much about the others though.

This from lexicanum: Afterwards, Garro, Qruze and Amendera Kendel were approached by Malcador the Sigillite and told that they would be needed to form the beginnings of an organisation which would utilise "men and women of inquisitive nature, hunters who might seek the witch, the traitor, the mutant, the xenos".1 http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nathaniel_Garro


----------



## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Garro does seem to be more likely to be a founding Inquisitor, rather than a Grey Knight. I suppose that the two, new audio-books coming out soon will answer that question more fully.
I think it's much more likely that Iacton Qruze is a major player in the Grey Knights; I'd really love the Half Heared, an Astartes of the old school and honoured martial tradition, to be able to strike back at all of those who thought he was too old and broken down to matter.

GFP


----------



## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> How did you manage to come to the conclusion that Zahariel is one? He's a traitor, a Fallen Angel- Tarvitz is probably dead, same for Nero Vipus, and Loken is the otherside of the Galaxy.


I probaly should of pointed out when the conversation happend......This was right before the emperor Went to face horus, so the end of the heresy. We all know loken is alive (its been said enough damn times) and chances are so are the other guy's since it would make things most interesting.


----------



## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

It'd be neat if there was some diversity within the first ranks of the Grey Knights with having the remnants of the traitor legions in them.


----------



## Worldkiller (Jun 16, 2010)

I think it would only add to the sheer amazingness to the Grey Knights if they were descended from geneseed identical to the first traitor Astartes, meaning it could be possible for them to go over to chaos, and yet they still don't.


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> I probaly should of pointed out when the conversation happend......This was right before the emperor Went to face horus, so the end of the heresy. We all know loken is alive (its been said enough damn times) and chances are so are the other guy's since it would make things most interesting.


Pardon my sheer utter ignorance on this, but where is it said that Loken is still alive after his fight with Abaddon?


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> Pardon my sheer utter ignorance on this, but where is it said that Loken is still alive after his fight with Abaddon?


Sadly Abnett confirmed it in one of his Q&A videos.

Of course Angmar is still wrong on most points, but on Loken's survival he's not.


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

So nothing on it has been written/released yet?


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

No, other than Abnett saying Loken will return one day in his video.


----------



## seb2351 (Oct 11, 2010)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Garro does seem to be more likely to be a founding Inquisitor, rather than a Grey Knight. I suppose that the two, new audio-books coming out soon will answer that question more fully.
> .
> GFP



The Grey Knights of 40k are a chamber militant of the Inquistion, but perhaps when it was first formed the Grey Knights were also inquistors, and only later did they make the divide more clear?
To me otherwise, it seems to be a waste of a Space Marines talents to become a "mere" Inquistor.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I wouldn't say its a stretch for Tarvitz and Vipus to be alive. Tarvitz obviously knew of some bunker or something below the city that he sent Rylanor to guard, what's the point in mentioning it if its not going to be expanded on. If Loken can survive, Tarvitz and co could easily have done so, more plausably aswell


----------



## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> Sadly Abnett confirmed it in one of his Q&A videos.


Fuck, well that's a let down. I loved the character and thought his ending, being betrayed by his primarch and facing his former closest brothers in a duel to the death was such an epic conclusion to his story. Oh well, everyone isn't always happy about the direction the fluff takes. 

But just how the fuck did he survive though? The guy was left half dead, buried under a bunch rubble on what was essentially a loyalist graveyard. What, did he just dig himself out and somehow manage to hitch a ride with the fleeing loyalists who, even in their attempts to make a quick escape, had time to find and pick up stragglers even though the vast majority of their legions were wiped out? That seems like pushing it a bit to me, but hey, that's just my opinion.

As for the Grey Knights, I know the whole story about the eight being brought before the Emperor but really can only speculate about who they were. As far as I know, the only loyalists from the traitor legions who managed to reach Terra were the marines on the Eisenstein so Cruze, Garro and the rest of the Death Guard who were with them are probably the best bet for the original eight (though, as pointed out by others, Garro and Cruze might have become inquisitors). As for Loken, don't think he would have been one. In none of the novels he features in is there any even remote mention of him having any kind of paranormal powers and seeing as he was one of the main characters in the first trilogy, I think it would have been mentioned if he had any extra 'gifts' that he wasn't allowed to use at the time. If Loken survived though, then as Angel Of Blood said, chances are Tarvitz and Vipus also survived (maybe Vipus was the one to rescue Loken?) which means they might be among those who formed the Grey Knights or at least might have been part of the early Inquisition.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

Garro is a definate i would say and the half heard, Zahadriel nope last i read wasn't he on the path to damnation? or am i wrong in that? i have a feeling if they don't feed Keelers soul to the emp she might become one of the first inquistors with her power that would be a definate i guess.
last i knew nero and Vipus died on Istvaan and Loken, maybe his battle comes on Terra long as someone dosn't say that Tarik is still alive bit hard that don't think Space Marines are that clever as to put thier heads back on thier shoulders.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

oops meant nero and tarvitz


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I more see Keeler as becoming one of the first lving saints, rather than becoming an Inquisitor


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

either that angel or the first sister of battle seing as some of them have become living saints


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

gothik said:


> either that angel or the first sister of battle seing as some of them have become living saints


5,000 years too early to be a Sister of Battle, I can imagine her becoming an Inquisitor or having an extremely active role in the set up of the Ministorum.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> 5,000 years too early to be a Sister of Battle, I can imagine her becoming an Inquisitor or having an extremely active role in the set up of the Ministorum.


i stand corrected by the baron lol:victory: i would say ministorum personally hr beig totally consumed by the emps divinity and all. but what about the other two remberancers epecisally Oliton i can see her doing something within the Inquistion


----------



## DonFer (Apr 23, 2010)

I was under the impression that the GKs where somehow created form the Adeptus Custodes. They were after all the best of the best protecting the emperor himself, and fought the battle along with the Pseudo-Sisters in the Chambers of the Emperor when all those warp spawns broke off and attemted to storm the imperial palace. 

They even have the same CC weapon. I'm not sure, and maybe I'm utterly wrong, but there are hints given in the Collected Visions Book about this.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

There close combat weapons are very different actually. The Custodes use Guardian Spears, which are basically polearms/halbreds with a form of boltgun in them. GK use Nemesis Force Weapons and can take the form of many weapons, halbreds, polearms, sowrds etc, and allow the user to channel their psycic powers through them.

Grey Knights are still marines aswell, where as Custodes are something else, similar but not the same.


----------



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> No, other than Abnett saying Loken will return one day in his video.


Are you joking, if this is true that is one of the most bone headed decisions I've ever heard and just highlights my increasing disappointment with the direction GW is taking. 

Now I like to give all BL writers the benifit of the doubt, as I understand their job is difficult (you can't please everyone) but lets for a moment imagine the meeting. 

*BL Writer* "Ok folks Loken is dead, he has been a great character for us and drew alot of interest and I feel we gave him a great send off"

*Either GW management or another BL Writer *"What you killed off Loken! Oh no! All the PG-13esque a**holes who seem to be the sole market of every entertainment industry in existence will be crying and won't buy our books anymore"

*BL Writer *"It's ok, we can focus on a more adult market, say 15 and up and include some real darkness into the 40k universe, you know the reason why people like our work, the good guys can't always win and have things their way you know."

*Either GW management or another BL Writer *'BLASPHEMER!!! I cast you into the fiery pits of the most daemonicly infested hell, we will not kill off any such characters, they will live and conquer all known foes and become boring and one-dimensional. Now begone!! So that I may return to the plotting of how to make Sanguinius survive his duel with Horus and be completely awesome in everyway. BEGONE!!!!

Anyway if Loken survives that will be really G*Y and Tarivitz as well, his duel with Lucius was his perfect pyrrhic victory before he gets blown to kingdom come from orbit.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

lets suppose that the survivours of the Eisenstien are the forerunners to the GK then the GK have the blood of Horus and Mortarion in them somewhere and that alone makes them formidable...just a wild theroy someone threw at me earlier....


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

I personally don't like the decision - as I know many others don't. I would rather Loken have died, to represent the death of the Great Crusade, the Luna Wolves and mark the beginning of the Heresy. It would have been much more heartfelt.

Apparently Loken was always intended to survive Isstvan III though (so says Abnett), shame that Ben Counter basically confirmed that he died in how he wrote the entire Isstvan III scene...


----------



## randian (Feb 26, 2009)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> they each are blessed with paranormal skills, Kept dormant in respect of your previous commands.


This quote makes it clear that all of these marines are psykers. I don't recall any of the marines on your list displaying psychic abilities.


----------



## WarMaster Sindr (Jun 23, 2010)

Hey i always thought that they were made form the left over loyalist parts form the corrupted legions? 

But im more into other Lore so if anyone could post all the Theroies i would greatly apprecaite it.


----------



## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

This something discussed in depth in other threads. Here was my contribution:



> In HHCC, page 324, the Emperor tells Malcador "You must draw about you men of character, skill and determination. These men are to be rigorously tested and trained to ensure they are of the highest caliber and that their loyalty to me is unshakeable. These men will be the cadre of elite of investigators whose role is to root out heresy and treachery wherever it may hide"
> 
> then, on page 404 of Eisenstein Malcador tells Garro, Qruze and Kendel "There is a matter to which you will be set... the Imperium requires men and women of inquisitive nature, hunters who might seek the witch, the traitor, the mutant, the xenos... who could root out the taint of any future treachery: a duty to vigilance" Is this no practically the mission statement of the Inquisition?
> 
> ...


----------



## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

I also thought that Grey Knights were formed from Custodes and since Garro has never shown any psychic potential that would fit. I didn't know about Loken being dead but that is proper pants that they are bringing him back. I wonder how long they'll continue with the heresy anyway and whether or not it will culminate in the amazing Horus Vs Emperor that we have waited on for nearly 25 years.


----------



## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

randian said:


> This quote makes it clear that all of these marines are psykers. I don't recall any of the marines on your list displaying psychic abilities.


ya they never said they where or that they weren't....Wouldn't amaze me if it was one of those "Surprise your a psychic" Moments as we all know the Black Library staff seems to love random crap that makes no sense being added in.


----------



## DonFer (Apr 23, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> There close combat weapons are very different actually. The Custodes use Guardian Spears, which are basically polearms/halbreds with a form of boltgun in them. GK use Nemesis Force Weapons and can take the form of many weapons, halbreds, polearms, sowrds etc, and allow the user to channel their psycic powers through them.
> 
> Grey Knights are still marines aswell, where as Custodes are something else, similar but not the same.


Actually if I'm not mistaken, the early stages of GK had the same weapons as the custodes. the bolter mounted on their spears and stuff. I don't know exactly when this changed to NFW, but if you go back long enough you'll see the similarities. I'm not sure if the custodes didn't have psychic powers, but they were the top of the iceberg and personal bodyguards of the Emperor, so there's always the chance for that. 
It's just a thought, we'll have to wait until something official surfaces.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Aye the original models had much the same weapons. But now and for a while they've been completely different. Haven't heard of the Custodes being psychic as far as i know


----------



## Count_the_Seven (May 19, 2010)

The audio books from BL on Garro should shed a good deal of light on these questions - one later this year and another early next.


----------



## gothik (May 29, 2010)

might clear a lot up then about the fate of those who escaped Istvaan


----------

