# Chaos Daemons Tactics



## Revelations

This will be a growing Tactica for the Chaos Daemon Army. Theories will be expanded upon with greater playtesting. 

1. Daemonic Assault. Daemons enter play VIA Daemonic Assault, or by splitting their forces into two-halves and deepstriking a half(or random half) and the deepstriking the remaining VIA normal reserves rules. This creates a bit of a complication as well as oppertunity. Certain troops could be destroyed and others could suffer great loses prior to do anything. So we need to keep certain things in mind...

A. Choosing second turn is a god-send. Essentially the other player wastes an entire turn doing nothing but moving, allowing you only a single turn to get shot at prior to movement and assault. However, given the tactic many players may choose second turn in order to gain 2 turns to shoot the crap out of you prior to your retaliation. 

B. The opponent will never be able to properly shield thier units. LoS, cover, etc, may all become quite useless against your assault. 

C. Objective based missions will have a new level of complexity. Deep-striking a unit right ontop of an objective forces players to re-evalute how their army moves and how they react to the multiple objectives on the table. 

D. The gods are fickle! Do not place all your eggs in a single basket. You may not get to choose the half of the army you want to start. It would be a good idea to mix both halves with an even amount of shooting and assault. 

The Daemonic assault creates a very random and unpredictable element to the battle field with virtually no players having much experience using or combatting it. 

More to come...


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## CATzeentch

The only problem being daemons have little shooting and its very short ranged...and on the other hand it could be a shit load of horrors firing 3 shots a piece.
I will continue to watch for any truely awesome ideas, which i'm sure are to arise.


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## Revelations

*The Changling*

The Changling... this is a very odd yet insanely powerful creature, especially given his incredibly low point costs. There is never a reason to not take this upgrade. Players should always consider putting him in their army if the points allow for it, since he's a upgrade to an existing unit. 

The Glamour is extremely powerful and you don't risk anything by using it every available turn. It is not a psychic power, so cannot be blocked, and it works on Fearless units, since it does not for a morale check, but a leadership test. And most devestating of all, it works on Vehicles (ableit at Ld10). 

Let me explain how dangerous this thing is; you see that Baneblade on the field? There's a chance you can turn all of it's weapons on a neighboring Super Heavy or Infantry Platoon. See that massive biotitan? How about using it's weapons to fry nearby Monsertous creatures? Sounds good to me! As it is not a Psychic power, but simply a special power used by the Changling, everything is susceptible to it. 

It's usually better to target non-vehicle and low leadership units since it will have a greater chance of working. Don't under estimate certain units compared to others. Snatching a squad of Guardians over the squad of Dark Reapers next to them isn't a bad idea, you'll have a lot more shots and they have less initiative. And could unload on the Reapers easing up the hurt they can put on your own troops. 

The possibilites are quite entertaining and the risk nonexistant. It's a power you can spam all day long without fear of retaliation and when it works, and you can count on at least once a battle, really put some hurt on the enemy. But keeping all this in mind, chances are your enemy will try to gun him down with high priority, make sure he is well defended and screened with some extra assault troops or wounds in his own squad.


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## Revelations

*Heralds*

The Daemons are able to field a whooping 4 Heralds in a single army. With the power of each specialized Herald, it’s like having 4 Chaos Space Marine Lords/Sorcerers in a single army. They are also not restricted to their god types, so you could field the Masque and Skulltaker in the same detachment coupled with either another 2 Heralds of any sort or a single Greater Demon. However, 4 Heralds are certainly not a horrendous choice, since you spread your forces out evenly a little more and each one acts independently from the 2nd in its HQ spot. 

While Heralds are nasty in their own right, they are not the true beasts that Greater Demons are. Unlike their much larger and nastier brothers and sisters, they require a bit more care and protection on the battlefield. As much as you want Skulltaker to get into CC with the many multi-wounded champions of good, you need to make sure he lives long enough to do so. But you have at least two options. 

1.	Heralds are Independent Characters. This will save you so long as they remain near and behind a friendly unit. While this may change come 5th, it currently stands as a good deterrent to targeting. However, once they get into CC, they are still on their own. 

2.	Heralds can be attached to the same god-aligned squad. Skulltaker can join a squad marked with Khorne while Masque can join squads marked with Slanesh. This provides them certain meatshields to utilize as they run across the battlefield and insures they have the proper backup to smash into enemy lines. Plus they are still IC in CC so can direct their attacks towards those that really need a beat down. 

It’s important to realize the power each one has and to use it appropriately. Skulltaker is no good if he isn’t in CC. The Masque can be affective at both short range to CC. While the rather lazy Nurgle Herald is good even tucked away hiding in a corner where no one can get to him, the Tzeentch Herald is better at range than anything else. Using them appropriately and you can sow some pretty heavy devestation on the battlefield. 

As with the rest of the Daemon army, Heralds are all about exploiting the weaknesses presented by the enemy and then capitalizing on their respective strengths. Remember that you have the choice (most of it anyway) where they descend upon their prey, so feel free to take those risks and brutalize your opponent for placing no CC units near his heavies, or foolishly sending the scout forces out first to take the objective with no backup.


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## Revelations

*Flamers of Tzeentch*

Arguably the best shooting unit in the Daemon Codex. While short range (18”), their ability to deep-strike allows you the opportunity to position yourself where you please for maximum devastation. In case you land too closely to your opponent or they start coming up on your position to quickly, they have the secondary flamer attack, which is even more devastating than their warp-fire. In melee, they fall short being a Tzeentch related daemon, they don’t have any nifty attacks nor special defenses, so you want another squad to back them up. 

What really adds icing on the cake is that they are considering jump infantry, so can quickly move around the board to lay down some heinous suppressive fire wherever they go. While you don’t want them in CC, their flamer attack can’t be ignored, and is almost always worth the risk. The remaining models left in whatever squad you hit with your flamer attack shouldn’t be able to retaliate enough to do any major damage. But it’s always a good idea to keep a CC oriented squad nearby just in case you need to bail them out of hot water. 

The other beauty is that like every other unit, you get to choose what attack each model makes. So in case you couldn’t quite reach total template devastation, the models too far off can still warp-fire into the same squad. I always suggest resolving the template weapons first to prevent your opponent from range model removal in the effort to deny you more hits. 

Those who enjoy shooting will enjoy the Flamers of Tzeentch immensely, since they combine speed, fire-power and sheer terror onto your opponent.


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## Revelations

*The Soul Grinder*

Never was there a more apt name for this monstrosity. The only vehicle in the Daemon Codex, but after looking at what he can do, do they really need another one? The Soul Grinder wields the most fire-power in the entire codex, and can easily be a beast in CC in his own right considering he’s more ruthless than a Defiler. 

The Soul Grinder comes standard with two weapon systems; The Harvester and the Maw Cannon. The Harvester is simply a troop raker. It has a whooping 6 shots and an assault profile with a fairly decent strength and AP value. It will eat through light troops with ease and put a hurt on heavier troops with its volume. 

The Maw Cannon is a bit of an oddity. While beginning as a template based weapon, it can purchase two upgrades. The first allows it to be a short range tank/toughness killer. A single powerful shot with the intention of bringing down the harder to crack targets. The seconds allows it to drop a lovely large blast that will destroy just about everything it hits. The beauty of the Maw Cannon is that like the Harvester, all of its weapon profiles are assault based, even the Blast. This means standing still isn’t the Soul Grinders slightest concern. 

Add in slightly tougher armor than a Defiler, the same Possession status, and its ability to Deep-strike, and you’ve got yourself a Daemon Engine that will get everyone’s attention pretty damn quick. It will be tough to crack this beast, and even if you do, a pretty lucky shot to get him down. 

The Soul Grinder is a solid, tough as nails, powerful, and decently priced unit. Given the costs for the upgrades and comparing it to a standard Defiler, why would you ever not bring this guy in all his Daemonic glory? He is affective against every unit, doesn’t have to worry about squatting to shoot his guns and can rip through units in CC. Expect him to be high on your opponents priorities list and back him up appropriately. Even the strongest things can be taken down if not used properly. 

Keep him in cover if possible, downgrades can save your life. Use his weapons appropriately, try not to waste the Harvester by taking a single chance shot at an Enemy tank. And don’t get him killed on the way down, he’s still susceptible to deep-strike mishaps, so be cautious. Used correctly, he’ll grind plenty of souls to dust.


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## Revelations

*Daemon Princes*

In a pure Daemon army, Princes are a half breed pretty far down the totem pole. While they are an HQ choice for a Chaos army, they are a Heavy Support Choice for a Daemon army. But if you love Princes, chance are you won’t mind taking 3 of them, coupled with 2 Greater Daemons for a nasty Monstrous themed army. And of course, you still get the many choices of gifts and blessings available to them. For the sake of ease, Daemon Princes will be called DP with Chaos Demon Princes will be called CP. 

Statistically speaking, the DP & CP are not too far apart. Where one is fairly better in one stat, the other is fairly better in the other. Regardless of the subtle differences, they are still a beast when it comes to stats. And if that weren’t enough, you can devote them to a specific God and gain more prestigious and specific powers. So what would you like them to do?

While some people believe they have become a kin to the Carnifex, a MC that can shoot, that isn’t accurate. The DP is still a creature you want to use right in the enemies face. The big difference is that the DP has the abilities to get him there and go toe to toe with various units whereas the Carnifex isn’t always reliable against certain things. The biggest difference is that the Carnifex can be used as a stationary sniper, whereas the DP range is rather limited. 

But when it comes to shooting, the DP has many options. High strength attacks, high volume attacks and templates attacks are all available to him. Even if you make the DP a fire base, his strength comes from his mobility and CC abilities on top of his fire power. 

CC DP are also still quite affective. A decent upgradable armor save, high strength attacks, a fair amount of attacks, MC status and a fairly good initiative all upgradable in their own right; the DP can swat most units down with impunity. It also has access to other nifty CC abilities; Rending, Poisons, etc. It will kill whatever it hits and take a beating before going down. 

The biggest issue with the DP is the price. While it starts out fairly cheap, the cost of the upgrades and the volume of them you might want to take really start to add up. While a no nonsense DP will charge you less than 100pts, a balls to the wall DP can breach 300pts. But with careful use, can easily earn their points back. 

The only other issues the DP face is that they share a slot with the Soul Grinder, the only Daemonic vehicle currently in existence. While 3 DP seems like a really good idea, one cannot ignore the powers a Soul Grinder wields. Chances are most opponents will see all 3 Heavy supports choices taken in every Daemonic army. 

Don’t forget that the DP follows all the Daemon rules, so while a danger to any unit on the field, it needs to be protected until it can unleash itself onto your enemies. Don’t get to close to the enemy during initial Deep-strike, try to find some cover to prevent a barrage of bullets. While it can harass the enemy multiple ways, hold a flank with furor and spearhead assaults, it’s always a good idea to back him up with something else to help him mop up those pesky swarms.


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## Revelations

*Nurglings*

Not much has changed with Nurglings from their previous incarnations. They're tiny, they're a lot of them, and they're stats are rather bizarre. Like Ripper Swarms and the Nurglings of the past, most people would overlook them since they are usually only used for bogging down units until something tougher comes along that can swat them. Here's the thing though... Nurglings are a lot stronger in the new codex than one would initially think. Here's a few things to consider about Nurglings...

1. They Deep-Strike. They can land anywhere on the board. While slow, the fact you can pop them down wherever your black heart desires is a nice addition to their performance. Imagine a swarm of rotting pimples digging their way out of the ground and begining to snarl and claw at you... gross...

2. They're Daemons. While Granted they suffer from the Swarms rule, they are Daemons... so you CAN'T Instant kill them. For something that has 3 wounds per base, that is the nutty goodness that grabs onto your crap as you try to squeeze one off. Who cares if their toughness is that of an Eldar or Guardsman... THREE WOUNDS. A squad of Nurglings can soak an incredible amount of firepower. 

3. They're Daemons. Sure I said it twice, but this time it's because they're invulnerable. It doesn't matter what weapons your enemy throws at you, you still have the chance to shrug it off like it was nothing. You see that Terminator squad rocking the Power fists? Throw your Nurglings at it and watch them squirm as they can only take off a wound at a time, if they manage to get past your saves. 

4. The Tally of Nurgle. They add to the book and get all the benefits associatted when the Fat guy on the chair is still kicking. Nurglings with Power Weapon attacks? Where do I sign up? 

These aren't the old school Nurglings people used to annoy their opponent with. These are the new puss filled monstrosities on the block. Nurglings have become a lot more dangerous than most have realized, and some might still be in disbelief about. And given their insane reslience, would go nicely into a Multi-wound army that puts the Nidzillas to shame. 

Numbers is the name of the game, and when it comes to soaking them up, Nurglings are your one way ticket to the Nurglebowl.


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## Revelations

*Greater Daemons*

The big daddy matchos of the Daemonic armies; the Greater Daemons are the strongest manifestations of the Chaos Gods in normal armies. Only the vast powers of the Apocolyptic Daemons surpass them. If you wanted to field that awsome Blood Thirster Model again, you're in luck, you can. Or better yet, you can field two. 

Yes, that's right. Greater Daemons take up a single HQ slot, so you can field two Greater Daemons in a single army detachment. And no, there exist no rules limiting which two you decide to use, whether two of the same or opposing alingments. The only restriction is that you don't take more than a single named Greater Daemon. 

Yes, that's right again, they have 3 named Greater Daemons, each with unique abilities to unleash upon your foes. Each ability with its own quirk. 

First we have the Keeper of Secrets. There is nothing, NOTHING as fast in combat as this beast, with a whooping 10 initiative. Who cares if they have Banshee masks or are in cover, you will strike with them if not before. It's numerous attacks, MC status andf rocking WS skill, you can mow through the toughest of opponents. Speaking of fast, did I mention this thing can Fleet? Yah, a fleeting MC that has the option of purchasing Pavane, a weaker version of Lash of Submission. Who cares if you don't have wings, you don't need them. 

Second is the slimey Unclean One. So you're slow... but you have more wounds then most people can dream of AND Feel No Pain on top of that. Purchasing extra strength on this pile of crap (literaly) is only for tank hunting, and you probably don't need that with his MC status, because he wounds everything on a 2+. Yes, everything, even that floating Necron that thinks he's all cool. 

Third is the terrifying Blood Thirster. Physically the strongest of the Greater Daemons and frightenly fast with his Daemonic flight. The only Greater Daemon with an armor save on top of his Inv save, does he really need Furious Charge? Why yes, why the hell not? Worried about Psykers? How about a 2+ save Vs anything Psychic? Yep, no to shabby at all. 

Fourth we have the Lord of Change. Worried about not having enough shooting? How about a MC that can target multiple units with some devestating amount of various attacks? He puts Flamers to shame and moves just as fast. He's also got the best Inv save of the group, Power Armor on steroids. 

Then we have the Named Greater Daemons...

The Plaguefather is a dirty version of the Unclean One. Yes, an even dirtier version. you don't see these numbers on wounds profiles beyond gargantuan creatures, but there they are. Don't think you have enough Ordnance? This thing craps Demolisher cannons. If that wasn't bad enough, he also craps allies. Yes, he is a crap machine, and his crap is good. 

The Fateweaver is an odd duck. Not so much a duck as some freakish bird thing that happens to be a decked out Lord of Change. But if you needed some extra protection for your troops, he's the guy for the job. Get some bad rolls on your saves? If you're near him, feel free to praise the dice gods for another chance. But here's the catch, he may have a few wounds, but only a single one will take him out. Yah, I don't understand it either. 

The Exiled One creates pure havoc on the battlefield, whether you want it to be there or not. He's a buff Bloodthrister besides, but he brings the Rage of Khorne with him. There are few "must" rules in the game, but he just happens to have one, that affects you and your opponent. For some odd reason, it makes them hit better, go figure. With any close proximity, things are going to get hit and die; be ready for it. 

So with all of these awsome ideas, what's the deal? Well... they cost a ton. If you were stingant on LandRaider costs, a Herald might be a better choice for you. But hey, all these guys can take several Landraider shots to the face and growl back, and then hose through a Landraider and all the guys trying to take cover behind it. That's why some of them cost more, yes, MORE than a Landraider. 

Plus you still get the Daemon Package deal, Deep Strike and ID immunity. Don't worry about Power Fists with these guys. What are they going to do, scratch your back? Show them what true power is!


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## Dragonlover

Hows this for a plan? Take Skarbrand in a Slaanesh heavy army, you'll be mowing through the enemy in no time, and Initiative 5/6 on all the Slaanesh stuff means that a lot of stuff isn't gonna be hitting back. Plus think of all the rending goodness you'll get out of it.

Dragonlover


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## Revelations

Dragonlover said:


> Hows this for a plan? Take Skarbrand in a Slaanesh heavy army, you'll be mowing through the enemy in no time, and Initiative 5/6 on all the Slaanesh stuff means that a lot of stuff isn't gonna be hitting back. Plus think of all the rending goodness you'll get out of it.
> 
> Dragonlover


It's probably the best use for him. He's a vicious double edged sword, that hurts as much as he helps. Taking advantage of the high Int of Slannesh is a pretty good idea. Just keep him away from other high Int enemy units; Genestealers, Harlequins, etc.


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## Wargamer

I think there's a bit of misinformation here...

Regardless of who gets the first turn, the Daemon Army is subject to only one turn of shooting; during the _Daemon's_ first turn, their army arrives.

So, it is either:

Daemon Turn 1 - Daemons arrive.
Opponent Turn 1 - Shoots Daemons.
Daemon Turn 2 - Rest of the force begins arriving.

Or:

Opponent Turn 1 - Nothing to do.
Daemon Turn 1 - Daemons arrive.
Opponent Turn 2 - Shoots Daemons.
Daemon Turn 2 - Rest of the force begins arriving.


Personally, I would always go last when a Daemon army is involved; as you don't get bonus turns of shooting against them, it comes down to objective-grabbing. Whoever has the last turn of the game has the last chance to win the game, and on that logic it is always more desirable for both sides, Daemonic and otherwise, to go second.


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## njfed

I bring to your attention the Nurgling Spam and Cheese special.

A squad of 9 (27 wounds!) nurglings costs 117 points.
In the Daemon codex nurglings count as troops and they can hold objectives!
Deep strike a squad onto each objective and use the rest of your points to tie up the enemy.

I would not be surprised to see an addition to the swarm USR in 5th addition to state that swarms can't hold objectives.


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## Revelations

*Purist Armies*

With all the nifty things the Daemonic Codex has to offer it’s sometimes difficult to choose what units to bring to the table and what units work best with other units. But what if you want to play a Pure army, devoted to only a single God of chaos? Where there are no supporting rules for such armies, but it’s easily controlled by the player to only select the single army type they wish to play and then adapt their tactics to suite the strengths of that army. So what do the different armies bring to the table?

Khorne; the God of Battle, Slaughter, Carnage and overall nastiness brought about by being pissed off at another person. Khorne brings pure strength and raw power to the table; Khorne is the sledgehammer of Chaos. The general consensus is minus your Fast Attack choices, every single unit wields a power weapon equivalent. When it comes to what the enemy infantry is armored with, it simply won’t matter. The problem is getting to the enemy as soon as possible. Your Flesh Hounds are incredibly fast and can easily tie up units providing cover for your slowing foot slogging troops. Don’t forget to try to screen units with other units. You won’t have to worry about falling back, but it keeps your units strong enough to take on enemy counter assaults. You lack a great deal of shooting, which can only be provided by Heavy Support Choices and HQ choices; but it’s not a safe bet to think your shooting is going to do much of anything. With that knowledge, it’s best to purchase strength upgrades where applicable so you have a better chance of taking vehicles down in melee. Given the current rumored changes to Rending in 5th Ed, never purchase a Rending upgrade on anything, since you’re already armed with power weapons. 

Slannesh; the God of Decadence, Desire, Excess and overall I’m so hot I’m going to get every other person to worship me to feed my ego. Where Khorne was the sledgehammer of Chaos, Slannesh is the scalpel. Slannesh focuses not necessarily on hand to hand combat, but rather getting there in the first place. Most of your army selections have Fleet, which speeds up their process, as well as options to purchase Pavane, which just brings your enemy closer to you. You also get a few nifty upgrades in hand to hand including grenade types as well as hit & run. You may be the more fragile of the armies, but you are certainly one of the more cunning. Again, you’re focus shouldn’t be on walking over your opponent like Khorne does, but to plan out cunning attacks that utilize your speed and precision. They give Eldar a run for their money when it comes to; “what the hell did he just do?” Protect your units as much as you can and try to stay as loose as possible when encountering potential problems. 

Tzeentch; the God of Change, Evolution, Mutation and overall manipulative scheming creatures that make teenage girls fighting over their boyfriends look like hummingbirds sharing a flower. This army is all about the shooting; so much to a degree that at shorter ranges you make the Imperial Guard and the Tau Empire a little jealous they can’t shoot bolts of flame out of their eyes. And if that weren’t bad enough, some of your units can even shoot a few different things should they want to. You’re also the fastest army in the God selections, with most of your units moving like jetpacks and jet bikes. It gives you a considerable edge when you need fire power devoted to a specific point on the table and the option of high tailing it out of there when encountering an assault squad. The key here is to maintain a safe distance to your enemy through moving and shooting; think of a strafe run while playing Unreal Tournament. Feel free to manipulate a little of their shooting as well when the opportunity arrives, nothing tops that.

Nurgle; the God of Entropy, Disease, Plagues and overall every bad zombie B horror flick you’ve ever watched where guts go flying across the room. They are the walking wall of Chaos. Where others need to move to secure victory, Nurgle has the option of staying put and letting the enemy come to it. The toughest of the Chaos armies, and if everything goes according to plan, the most dangerous. They don’t have much shooting, but it hurts when it comes out. They don’t have the best hand to hand in the world, but it hurts when they touch you. They aren’t very mobile, but can take an excessive amount of punishment. They also have Epidemus, who tallies the death toll wrought by your forces which slowly but surely increases your power through their destruction. It’s a perfect and slightly poetic oddity in the game, the more we spread our disease, the stronger is becomes. As the game moves more toward objective based tactics, the strength of Nurgle really starts to shine. The enemy across the board has to throw more at you in order to harm you than most are used to. You should concern yourself on where you want your forces to be more than anything else, because most things have an equal chance of hurting you. Worried about that Broadside? He’s about as much of a threat to you as those Stealth Suits are. Don’t be afraid to kill a few models though; it only makes your army stronger. 

Each God has its strengths and its weakness, so it’s important for the player to see what those are and to use them to the best of their abilities while disallowing the enemy to capitalize on their weaknesses. Naturally some may suffer more than others against certain opponents, but that’s not to discourage the list you’ve made or the way you played. Simply try again and you may see a wide range in success and failures. But such is the glory of chaos; it can’t be predicted, and neither should a good commander.


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## Revelations

*Psychic Powers... or not*

Today we're discussing Deamonic Psychic Powers... oh wait; they don't have any. So... that in of itself should open up a whole new world of options. Here are a couple of key notes...

1. As they are NOT Psychic Powers, they CANNOT be Blocked! No Hoods, no Shadow, no Runes, no squat. Sure they mimic the powers of other Codecies Psychic Powers, but they don't suffer the risk. They're Daemons, why would they? Oh no; a Daemon reached into his home and was attacked... by himself? Sure...

2. Things that are Immune to Psychic Powers are NOT Immune to Daemonic powers. Oddly enough, the Blessing of the Blood God does not protect against other Daemonic powers, so other protections don't work either. Even the almighty Gargantuan Creature rules do not defend against Daemonic Powers, so feel free to 'Boon of Mutation' that ugly mofo coming up on ya!

3. You are still affected by powers. Just because you don't have to worry about frying your brain, you are still susceptible to others doing it for you. The only real defense you have would be the Blessing of the Blood God, and only if you're Khorne. So the point that the enemy can't protect himself against you should be transferred toward you as well. Guard yourself appropriatley. 

That's really it. No risk to use, no defenses against it, and darn powerful. And nothing more to add. Go start turning people into sniveling spawn.


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## Revelations

*Glaring Issues*

Upon reading this thread, it may seem like Daemons are the “it” army, able to take on pretty much everything and laugh at their paltry attempts to destroy them. I need to make it clear that this is by no means the case. This particular post will discuss the glaring issues this army faces and ways in which to work around them, for there are several which can cripple ones army in mere moments…

1.	Army split. The problem here is that you must split your army into two halves to begin with, so mixed armies or armies with odd numbers of specialized troops will need to adjust their armies accordingly to gain advantages with both halves of your army. Because…
2.	The Gods are Fickle. And so fickle they are indeed. If you put all your eggs in one basket and the Gods screw you, you are indeed screwed beyond measure. It’s important to realize you are at the mercy of the dice, so your goal is to eliminate the measure of which you may or may not become screwed by the Gods. 
3.	Only half your army starts on the board. This opens up fewer options for you; less units for you to play with and fewer targets for the enemy to shoot. This allows your enemy to concentrate fire power with ease. Your goal is to either create as few targets to shoot at if at all OR to create too many targets for the enemy to shoot. This can be easily obtained by splitting your units to smaller numbers allowing you more multiple units. 2 squads of 5 Daemons will perform slightly better than a single squad of 10 Daemons. 
4.	Your starting forces may destroy themselves. Deep-striking it a dangerous tactic most of the time. 5th Edition should alleviate some of the tension here, but you have a 1/3 chance of landing where you intend to, you need to keep that in mind. Otherwise, you’ll end up off target, or worse; destroyed. Now you have just wasted the costs on a unit you never even got to use. Give yourself some space between the enemy, yourself and terrain dangers. 
5.	Your remaining forces do not come all at once. Reserves are a pain to count on, and cannot be counted on. You need to track which ones you roll for and bring them in as soon as possible. Again at the mercy of the dice. 
6.	Your reserves may destroy themselves. Even though you had to worry about Deep-striking the first turn, now you have even more to worry about given that you now have some of your army on the table and the enemy will more than likely have covered more of the board, providing you less options when it comes to deep-striking safely. 
7.	Your reserves may never come on at all. While chances are slim, there is indeed a chance you may never actually get to bring on all your forces. Your goal is to use what you currently have access to without relying on unreliable cavalry which may or may never show up. 
8.	You will always be outnumbered. The enemy gets their whole army; you can start with ½, at most. You WILL lost units, regardless of whether or not you can get reinforcements on the table. It’s an uphill battle to start. 

Here are a few tips to consider when fighting with Daemons…

1.	Squad size. 4 Troops of 5 Daemons VS 2 Troops of 10 Daemons. Your entire army is fearless, so moral will not be an issue. More squads provide more firing selections for you and more choice selections for your enemy. You also get more squads to allocate to your splitting army. 
2.	Available targets. Consider wasting a turn hiding so you can get more help on the board before you start doing anything. You’re already outnumbered and more than likely outgunned and out-assaulted on the turn you start. Playing safe might not be a bad idea; increases your numbers and forces the enemy’s army to begin splitting up before they actually begin to engage you. 
3.	Objectives. It’s not always the smartest thing to just try to kill everything your enemy has to offer. Think about the objectives of the game and focus your attention on those; whether it be killing your enemy’s HQ or controlling objectives. You already have an uphill battle when it comes to destroying your enemy completely; what is the risk Vs reward? 

In comes down to this; know the risk, evaluate the situation, examine the possibilities and then execute the best plan. When playing Daemons it’s important to remember that nothing you do is certain, so play lose and keep your options open.


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## cooldudeskillz

wow you have given this alot of thought Revelations, this will really help those players who don't know what to do lol. are we allowed to talk about daemon tatics or just you??


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## Katie Drake

cooldudeskillz said:


> wow you have given this alot of thought Revelations, this will really help those players who don't know what to do lol. are we allowed to talk about daemon tatics or just you??


This thread is more to post tactics than to ask questions. The other thread that you started is perfect for general discussion on the matter.


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## cooldudeskillz

*icons*

ok a big issue for daemon players is deepstrikeing, some times it can go wrong thanks to the laws of the dice, however there is a solution, icons.
if you have a squad deepstrikeing within a icon theres a lot of benefits, like no scatter and placeing squads exactly where you want. however you can't just give any squad an icon and expect it too go well, like giving and daemonettes squad an icon and deepstrikeing them in first, most likely, there all get wiped out because of there low toughtnes and low save, yes i know it's invunable, but it's still low. The best 3 squads to give icons too imo are plague beaers,horrors and blood crushers. you can count that the bloodcrushers and plaguer beaers will survive alot of fire due to their immence toughness and other cool rules lol. The horrors have that extra good save and can shoot when they arrive so can take out key squads before they can shoot back. If any of these guys come in on your first wave with an icon you can rest assure you'll end up useing it 90% of the time.


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## solkan

*Sometime it's good to go first*

The counter argument to going second:

A lot of people don't seem to realize that all three of the default scenarios allow reserves, and that entire armies can be kept in reserve if they wish. If you're opponent deployes poorly, try to seize the initiative and go first. If you're opponent deploys poorly and gives you first turn, thank them for it.

I played a game against a player who chose first turn and chose to deploy on a table edge with a line of ruined buildings right in front of his deployment zone. Demonettes were killing tanks on turn two after leaving the ruins.

The number one rule: Don't commit to your 1st and 2nd choice waves until the start of your first turn. Have a good idea what to use, but don't commit until required.


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## newsun

*The Masque*

RAW The Masque is not IC so cannot join a squad, so unless you play a houserule or there is FAQ/Errata printed I am starting to think she is kinda vulnerable even with the nice save due to being out and low W count...I want to love her, just kinda find it hard to do so lately.

Strategic use of Pavane and an assault can completely pull a unit off an objective or out of LoS to give reprieve from shooting to your units.

I might bring her in early to keep my assault safe from fire via LoS if I could or I might bring her in late to hopefully not bring much attention to her and then take or at least deny my opponent objectives with her.


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## darklove

I just saw confirmation that the Masque is never allowed to join another unit:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...tId=cat1300041&categoryId=1700001&aId=6800005

It is not an error, so there won't be any FAQs about it.


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## gdog

is a mix of the gods units better than a single god army


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## newsun

I believe this is more a place for us to compile our tactics when using daemons than to ask questions.

In answer most often mixing gods will produce a better list. Nurgle/Epidemius list is a solid exception.


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## Revelations

*Princes as a viable 'Heavy' option*

I've personally heard and read a lot of flak toward the Daemon Princes. Since the Daemon army only has 2 Heavy Support options, why would anyone pick anything other than the soul grinder for their selection given the point costs disparity? 

The problem I've found is that few people have ever actually put the Daemon Princes into any practical game experience and thus are only basing their opinions off of either math based assumptions or the hearsay of another player. Tonight I decided to put them to the test.

They did not dissapoint. 

I built a specific army in mind for the Princes and decided to test their capabilities as a mobile fire base. Using Fateweaver as a tether, their synergy surpassed my expectations. Here are the major differences one needs to consider in order to properly understand how the Prince works over the Grinder.

1. The Prince has an Inv save. While it's true it is more susceptable to small arms fire, it can purchase an additional armor save. The Soul Grinder is a larger vehicle and has a very hard time gaining a save of any kind against shooting attacks. While the Grinder relies on it's armor and possession, the Prince may completely ignore attacks against it. 

2. The Prince has different shooting abilities. With a Tzeentch load out, the Prince can fire a whooping 3 weapons, where the Grinder is always limited to a maximum of two. They both must target the same unit, but the Prince has a great variety of weapons at it's disposal, while even through upgrades, the Grinder is still limited in it's choices. 

3. The Prince is more dangerous in H2H. The main point is that it can get greater Melee options, it's still a monsterous creature and much faster than a Grinder. One on one, a Prince would statistically speaking defeat a Grinder in Combat. Not by much, but the point remains. 

4. Synergy in consideration, the Prince gains more. Speaking from the Fateweaver experience, my Prince didn't suffer a single wound due to rerolls. The Grinder gains no benefit from Fateweaver. 
4A. The Prince can also be much faster than a Soul Grinder when equipped with Wings. It has the ability to support other units with greater ease where the Grinder is slower and more cumbersome. 

5. The Prince will ALWAYS require several wounds to kill. The Grinder at minimum only requires a single shot to completely destroy. 

6. More people are concerned with Soul Grinders over Princes, so currently don't expect them to be a real threat. Until this changes, consider that your opponent may not do much of anything against them, underestimating their potential damage output can improve a fatal error. 

One way to think about them is a rather expensive and more customizable Hive Tyrant. They are fragile when left by themselves, can put out a suprising amount of hurt on the enemy and work well when used for a specific purpose.

The main point to consider is that Princes are so rarely used by anyone and to often overlooked for their potential abilities. I played a 1v2 match, and all 3 of us were very suprised by what the Princes were able to accomplish.


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## surreal-mind

nice tactica, there should be more people using DPs, im sure lots of people will be sceptical or astonished by this ^^


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## ROCDOCTA

i prefer large units of daemons. why? 

1. as 40k is now troops only for capping objectives, it is far harder to kill a large unit completely than 2 small ones. by this i mean if there are 4 objectives, chances are that you may send 4 small squads out to get each one for the win, rather than going for only two. 

2. CC as most daemons are CC, it means that a unit of 10 can get more attacks in. 2 units of 5 will have alot of trouble getting all the attacks in as they charge in to base contact where possible. there may not be any space for the second unit of 5 to get into combat.

3. a large unit of plague bearers can give more cover saves to the softer units behind them. they screen the bloodletters and pass off the 4+ cover save.


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## newsun

I definitely 2nd the DPs being awesome especially when combined with FW, though at our store there are 3 regular daemon players and all use DPs. I am the only one who even has SGs which I break out sometimes.

With DPs, it's easy to dump too many points into them. I in general keep them to 3 or less gifts including marks. 

If SGs had a better WS, they would be much nicer with hitting on 3s, though they still hit on 4s and wound on 2s so things die, plus they can insta kill most anything. They also have 2x shooting base for a reasonable price. To get a DP there you spend more points.

They are both nice and have their applications. DPs can survive longer and be kitted more vastly. SGs with high armor can get you a battle cannon and are great at tying up units unless there is a power fist or equiv weapon in the squad. They are the only really long range weapon as well.

Large units makes for awesomeness. I have been running with 18 strong units for fun lately and have been winning because I always have a few guys to hold/contest no matter how much shooting/cc is tossed at me. Plus it makes for less KPs.


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## Katie Drake

When it comes to Daemon Princes, there are only a few configurations that are truly worth it in my experience.

Without any upgrades, a Daemon Prince is just a waste of points. He has low Strength and Toughness values (for a Monstrous Creature, that is), a poor save and isn't especially quick. It's the unfortunate truth that without spending some points to make him more survivable you're probably better off buying a pair of Bloodcrushers, who have the same Strength, Toughness, Wounds (if you add the total Wounds of two 'Crushers together, that is) as well as having more Attacks (again between the two of them). It also helps that Bloodcrushers come standard with the Iron Hide Daemonic Gift making them a far better choice than a naked Daemon Prince.

If you're willing to spend some points though, you can get a model that can do almost as much damage as a Greater Daemon of whichever God it may be dedicated to but for far less points. It's also nice that Daemon Princes can be made more survivable than some of their Greater Daemon counterparts (in the case of Slaaneshi Princes, at least).

Here are some optimal configurations for Daemon Princes.

*Daemon Prince of Khorne*
- Unholy Might
- Iron Hide
- Mark of Khorne
- Blessing of the Blood God
Pts: 155

If you just want a (relatively) cheap combat monster who can tear most units to pieces in close combat than this beast is for you. He has a high Strength, lots of Attacks, a good armor save and is almost completely immune to psychic powers (so you won't need to worry about that annoying Lash of Submission or Doom.

*Daemon Prince of Nurgle*
- Mark of Nurgle
- Iron Hide
- Noxious Touch
- Cloud of Flies
- Breath of Chaos
Pts: 185

This Daemon Prince is meant mostly to survive a lot of shots and attacks from your enemy. Like all Daemons he's immune to Instant Death, but he also has a scary Toughness value that renders the small arms of most infantry almost totally worthless against him with an excellent armor save to back it up. Noxious Touch helps him wound even the toughest of enemies with ease (just don't try this against a Gargantuan Creature since Poisoned Attacks don't work against them!), while Cloud of Flies is a cheap way of ensuring that hiding behind some barrels won't be enough to stay this guy's wrath. This is also why he has the Breath of Chaos Daemonic Gift. Use this Prince to attract a lot of attention and dig even the most stubborn unit out of cover.

*Daemon Prince of Slaanesh*
- Mark of Slaanesh
- Aura of Acquiscence
- Soporific Musk
- Pavane of Slaanesh
- Iron Hide
Pts: 175

This Daemon Prince works well when tag-teaming with a Keeper of Secrets and/or unit of Fiends of Slaanesh. He's fast in combat with a high Initiative but is very vulnerable to ranged attacks even with Iron Hide. This guy's job is to enter close combat with units that are really looking to avoid it or to jump into an assault, deal damage and then quickly flee with _Hit and Run_. The Pavane also helps ensure that the slower units in your army can catch something that may be fleeing them.

*Daemon Prince of Tzeentch*
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Iron Hide
- Unholy Might
- Bolt of Tzeentch
Pts: 190

The most expensive Daemon Prince, this guy's also probably the most powerful. He's resilient because of his Iron Hide and good Invulnerable save (due to the Mark of Tzeentch), still hits hard in combat and also has an incredibly powerful ranged attack. This guy is probably your best bet for quickly taking out tanks or other large, powerful models. Carnifex or Leman Russ giving you trouble? Land this guy nearby and let that big guy have it with a Bolt into the side armor and charge it in your turn.

Katie D


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## maomolin

My greatest success with Daemons comes from feilding a Lord of change with two winged/breathed DP's. 3 MC's is enough hate to bring the attention away from smaller daemons (daemonettes and horrors, in particular. The Pavane works extremely well when matched near flamers of tzeentch.


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## BringerOfDeath

Katie Drake said:


> *Daemon Prince of Khorne*
> - Unholy Might
> - Iron Hide
> - Mark of Khorne
> - Blessing of the Blood God
> Pts: 155
> 
> If you just want a (relatively) cheap combat monster who can tear most units to pieces in close combat than this beast is for you. He has a high Strength, lots of Attacks, a good armor save and is almost completely immune to psychic powers (so you won't need to worry about that annoying Lash of Submission or Doom.
> 
> Katie D


do's blessing of the gods save aganst all psychic powers or is it only from wounds from a psychic power 
i hope it saves from all psychic powers but it soulds to good to be true
but i think i will try 2 of the khorne dp's


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## MarquisDeSade

I'm currently running a winged DP with my Slaaneshi Daemons. I've found the combination of Pavane and Breath to be quite efficient, especially seeing that you can assault any survivors. Also works in a support role as it effectively gives a 2d6 fleet move towards the enemy therefore, almost guaranteeing that the Seekers/Fiends/Daemonettes/Keeper that want to hit said unit will get there.


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## darklove

Threadomancy! Slay the heretic! :grin:

Welcome to the forum, but please read the forum rules and let a dead thread lie.

If you have something to say about Daemon tactics then it is far better to start a new thread rather than adding to an existing thread that has been dead for more than half a year.


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## hammerofkhorne

hey i know this isn't the place for questions, but im reading this and revelations said that FW works great with a DP, but i cant get my hands on a FW model, is there anything i could use to substitute him for?


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## MidnightSun

darklove said:


> Threadomancy! Slay the heretic! :grin:
> 
> Welcome to the forum, but please read the forum rules and let a dead thread lie.
> 
> If you have something to say about Daemon tactics then it is far better to start a new thread rather than adding to an existing thread that has been dead for more than half a year.


Midnight


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