# IG - Leman Russ or Artillery?



## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Having a really tough time deciding on what to use to compliment my MeltaVets in Chimeras.

I really like the idea of running an army based on the Chimera chassis, however they are extremely fragile and easily taken down.

The Leman Russes look like a good choice for their points, however they cant match the cost-effective firepower of the Medusa/Manticore.

Im going to invest a considerable amount of money in a Mech list, and wanted to know what people prefer to use between Artillery or Leman Russes.

If i go with Artillery, it will probably be 2 Medusas and 2 Manticores.
If i go with Leman Russes, it will probably be 4 of them, and maybe a Manticore.

So, which do people prefer? LR's or Arti?


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## The Boz (Aug 16, 2010)

Leman Russ. Mixing AVs will make sure the enemy either overkills a Chimera or barely dents a Leman Russ. But do bring atleast one arty along, just to pepper their points with indirect pwnage. I like the Manticore from what I read, but I haven't used one yet.


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Well, with a LR, if you use a magnets in your turrets, you can swap out turret guns depending on your mood and or list, which can be really handy.


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## The Boz (Aug 16, 2010)

gally912 said:


> Well, with a LR, if you use a magnets in your turrets, you can swap out turret guns depending on your mood and or list, which can be really handy.


Also, that.


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## Daniel Harper (May 25, 2008)

With a meltavets list, I'd probably say Russ' as they can keep up the mobility with your chimeras. Even though I love my artilery.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

surprisingly (not) I prefer leman russ, the only armour lower than 14 I plan to have is the 3 hellhounds I want, anything else is a waste of points and I don't like the look or theme of (basilisk) or I can't have in my army (manticore).


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## Therizza (Jul 29, 2010)

in my opinion, 2 manticores and a leman russ demolisher (or two).


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## Uilleam (Nov 23, 2009)

Having been on the recieving end of my buds Tank Company I'd say Russes and Demolishers all the way! Lumbering Behemoth is just plain sick! He uses 2 Lemans, 2 Demolishers, and a Punisher alongside 2 Vendetta Gunships (filled with melta goodness!) and 40 or so Guardsmen with heavy weapons plus a command squad at 1850 points. It's retarded how much firepower he can lay down. Our Tau playing friend almost cries. My Nids wanna go back into space where it's safe. My World Eaters with 3 Raiders have proven successful as have my Daemons but that's about it. 

He gets first turn and you're not entirely in reserve? Yeah. Nice knowing ya. :hang1: Damn Bring Down The Big Ones command...


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Both work well..I've fielded lists that have all arty, all AV14, and a mix...they are all effective.

Squadrons - Hydras and Griffons work well because they are cheap and effective in their roles. Russ squadrons are ok once you're playing higher point games because losses can be absorbed easier. The only ones I ever squadron are LRBT's..the rest are either too expensive or don't really need to double the firepower to be effective.

Manticores are great for anti-tank/MC/Hoard and the Medusa for anti-armour. The Collossus is great for anti-MEQ but that's about it, while the Bassie is a good generalist but not as good as a Manticore.

Don't limit yourself to one choice.


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## Capt.Al'rahhem (Jan 24, 2009)

I'l start by saying I don't use Vets, at all. I do use 2 full mech. platoons & for a mobile army Leman Russes seem to be a better choice. The dangerous and high AV tanks draw allot of attention and let your Chimeras get where they need to be. 

While Art. are great for powerful indirect attacks with out some cheap protection they're easy kills for long range AT and deepstriking units. That being said it's hard to go wrong with a Manticore or 2.


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## Warsmith40 (Feb 8, 2010)

I've seen what demolisher cannons can do to infantry, and even tanks if in range, and it isn't pretty unless you're dishing it out! I've also played a battle cannon Russ, and that's proven horribly flexible in almost any situation.

I'd also like to point out how rediculous putting a Basilisk on the field would be. It's range would only be convenient on massive tables. Looking at the statlines of the other IG artillery units, their stats would only make them seriously useful in large battles supporting an armored advance, upwards of 2500 points, or in small infantry battles where the chances of enemy armor being present is slim.

Even so, I'd also suggest testing different strategies using artillery batteries, even if it's just friendly games using proxies to give it a go. You may discover a way to use the artillery that makes them more bang for your buck point-wise. It really depends on how you end up playing the army you put together.


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## vonklaude (May 16, 2010)

KingOfCheese said:


> Having a really tough time deciding on what to use to compliment my MeltaVets in Chimeras.
> 
> I really like the idea of running an army based on the Chimera chassis, however they are extremely fragile and easily taken down.
> 
> ...


I recently played against IG with my SM. He had his LR tanks driving towards me in front of his Chimeras. That was daunting; I had little that could crack the front on an LR. His demolisher cannon shot a lot of times, but did little. His main battle gun seemed better. His HB sponsons were surprisingly effective, and his Chimera multi-lasers caused my speeders all kinds of trouble. He won one, and drew one, against me.

I also recently played against the same opponent's IG Basilisk list. Again it caused a lot of trouble, since I was forced to react to the pressure the Basilisks put on me. His Basilisks were safely tucked behind a vast number of ordinary troops. He also used some guy that called down a shot every turn. The flaw with this list is that while he minced my marines, he wasn't very capable of mounting an attack and getting it to stick. So we drew.

If you are spending money I would look closely at the Executioner LR. I would be otherwise content with LRs with their main guns and HB sponsons, and at least three Chimeras. The Hydra flak tank is a nasty bit of kit, too. I don't know too much about other stuff, but he did field a nasty squad with I think it was Harker (or some character that gave infiltrate) some flamers, and some shotfuns. Also a small squad with grenade launchers was pretty effective. I didn't like playing against the guy who adjusts my reserve rolls, either (therefore he is worth having!) Penal squad were also good.


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## BodyCount (Aug 1, 2010)

I like your idea for 2 LR squads and a manticore, the manticore its amazing to blow up AV 14 33% of the time. its amazing when it hits and can stress your gunline when it doesn't with your melta list it will make for a great supplement. 

2 LR squads would be great, i would go one demolisher squad one battle tank squad and you will have amazing cover for your chims to push upfield.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Not too fond of Manticorae or Medusae myself.
I go Leman Russes, in their varients, all the way.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

So far i have run two bog standard Leman Russ with no upgrades in the games i have played so far. Both times they have been a huge asset. They pay for themselves fairly quickly.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

One of the more fun things to do to a Space Marine/ Wolf or Eldar player who uses lots of cover save snipers is to put Pask in a Leman Russ, any variant, with plasma cannon sponsons.
No cover saves, so long as he's stationary.
Personally, I like to give it a lascannon in the front for those times when you're facing a vehicle in cover as well...


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## TimberWolfA (Jan 12, 2010)

Pask's 'Crack Shot' =/= Eldar's 'Crack Shot'
Bonus vs. MCs & Armor =/= ignore cover saves

I strongly recommend that you consider pairs of Hydras and solo Vendettas.
After that, Leman Russ are pretty fantastic as long as you keep all of their weapons options cohesive (similar range/strength/AP).
I consider Basilisks to be the artillery of choice, but they only really shine if you run them in multiples and they aren't harassed for the first few turns.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

What are peoples opinions of running 3 Manticores with bubblewrap?


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

KingOfCheese said:


> What are peoples opinions of running 3 Manticores with bubblewrap?


I have used 2 quite a few times, and 3 would get you a decent number of missiles each turn, so you would only need a few turns to do massive damage and the bubblewrap will keep them safe from c/c attacks.

They aren't the best against SM-type lists because of the AP4, but the multiple S10 blasts can compensate for that. Against Hoards/MC's and Mech-heavy lists they're very good though.

Still, I also like variety so spamming the one unit gets boring pretty quick, well aside from Troop choices, but we need those.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

TimberWolfA said:


> Pask's 'Crack Shot' =/= Eldar's 'Crack Shot'
> Bonus vs. MCs & Armor =/= ignore cover saves
> 
> I strongly recommend that you consider pairs of Hydras and solo Vendettas.
> ...


I don't know what you're saying with your first two lines.
The main problem I have with the bulk of the vehicles is that they're a BS of 3. That means you need 4's to hit shooting and while volume somewhat makes up for that, the Vendetta is pretty expensive for something you can't always count on.
But really, this is where people get into personal preferences.


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## TimberWolfA (Jan 12, 2010)

Vrykolas2k said:


> I don't know what you're saying with your first two lines.
> The main problem I have with the bulk of the vehicles is that they're a BS of 3. That means you need 4's to hit shooting and while volume somewhat makes up for that, the Vendetta is pretty expensive for something you can't always count on.
> But really, this is where people get into personal preferences.


=/= means does not equal. What I'm saying is that Pask doesn't deny cover saves.
Additionally, and funny story, ALL of both the Hydras and the Vendettas main guns are Twin-Linked BS3. That's better than BS4.
The real problem with the Vendetta is that due to the model it's nigh impossible to get a cover save without going 'All Out' and losing the opportunity to shoot for a turn.


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## The Boz (Aug 16, 2010)

I recently got a Valkyrie, glued together, and now I know what you mean. That thing is frikken hewg and frikken tall! 3D6 scatter is pretty much guaranteed to hit it, it's ridonculous.
EDIT: Also, BS3 Twin Linked = 75% chance to hit. Nice.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

TimberWolfA said:


> =/= means does not equal. What I'm saying is that Pask doesn't deny cover saves.
> Additionally, and funny story, ALL of both the Hydras and the Vendettas main guns are Twin-Linked BS3. That's better than BS4.
> The real problem with the Vendetta is that due to the model it's nigh impossible to get a cover save without going 'All Out' and losing the opportunity to shoot for a turn.


Strange, according to the codex, so long as he doesn't move he denies cover saves.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Vrykolas2k said:


> Strange, according to the codex, so long as he doesn't move he denies cover saves.


Where does it say that, it's not on page 58. Pask's 'crack Shot' special rule is laid out plainly enough, and denying cover saves isn't mentioned at all.

'Crack shot' isn't a USR in the Rulebook, so it's specific to the IG Codex, namely page 58. The Eldar Exarch's 'Crack Shot' is different to Pask's one.

That's how I read it anyway.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

HOBO said:


> Squadrons - Hydras and Griffons work well because they are cheap and effective in their roles. Russ squadrons are ok once you're playing higher point games because losses can be absorbed easier. The only ones I ever squadron are LRBT's..the rest are either too expensive or don't really need to double the firepower to be effective.
> 
> Manticores are great for anti-tank/MC/Hoard and the Medusa for anti-armour. The Collossus is great for anti-MEQ but that's about it, while the Bassie is a good generalist but not as good as a Manticore.
> 
> Don't limit yourself to one choice.


Basically, this.

I wouldn't squadron Russ tanks unless they are cheap(!), expendable basic variants, as anything else tends to be overkill.

You should also have a look at your army to see what you might be missing out on; anti-tank? anti-mc? anti-infantry, etc? There's a tank for every occasion with the Guard.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

HOBO said:


> Where does it say that, it's not on page 58. Pask's 'crack Shot' special rule is laid out plainly enough, and denying cover saves isn't mentioned at all.
> 
> 'Crack shot' isn't a USR in the Rulebook, so it's specific to the IG Codex, namely page 58. The Eldar Exarch's 'Crack Shot' is different to Pask's one.
> 
> That's how I read it anyway.


Weird; I guess everyone I've played against had it grandfathered in, so I have as well.


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## Freeburn (Aug 9, 2010)

I've recently enjoyed fielding a Manticore, Medusa, and standard LRBT. I like the superior range the Manticore and LRBT has to offer (especially in spearhead deployments), and the Medusa's range isn't too bad either. Additionally, they all have the ability to trump a variety of opponents, and have great synergy together, in my opinion. You have answers for light and heavy infantry and tanks with these 3 options.

Another plus is they're all 160 points or less, which leaves a lot of room for the other units in your army. It's pretty easy to field a lot of Vets in Chimeras or Valks or Vendettas when your heavies only cost 460 points.


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