# The Best Army



## Nipolian (Nov 4, 2009)

Yes I know all armys are supost to be equil but they are not. So wich army is the best?


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Mine.

If you must know.


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## Nipolian (Nov 4, 2009)

Which is...


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## Nipolian (Nov 4, 2009)

It isnt factual i just thought it would be a good disscution to help bring out the pros in armys to help people find a army that is good for them


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

WarSloth said:


> Sorry to say but this question is flawed. It's the same as asking which religion is correct, everyone says "mine!".
> 
> Please Troll elsewhere. . .


It's certainly not Trolling, an odd post for your first I must say  It is a somewhat flawed question though, as everyone thinks their own army is the best, well I do at least :biggrin:.

I play Bretonnians, and I love them, and I do very well with them. For me, that's the best army, the one I have and own and know. If you're talking about the best in terms of out and out power, look at the results from tournaments, in fact check out my post "Warhammer Army Balance part 2" (and the older part one), where I look at the statistics of army balance from the warhammer GT. So Daemons and Dark Elves usually do the best at tournaments at the moment, but does that make them "the best army"? nah, I don't think so.

If you look purely at game setup, Daemons and Darkelves, followed by VC, HE, WoC and LM, followed by a step down to the rest of the armies. The thing is though, that most of the setups for the armies that get right up to the top are nothing like you'd really want to take in a list, especially if you were a new player, so it's certainly not always best to choose an army based on that.

So what is the "best army" then? Well, this hobby is all about having fun, and if you take it too seriously you lose sight of that  The best army is the one that you have fun playing! So, to bring it back round to my first answer: from my perspective, what's the best army? Mine, because it's the one I love to play it. QED. :biggrin:


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

This question is asked alot ( although there isn`t anything wrong with it:victory: ) but it generally comes down to which force rocks in which phase. Now In my opinion a Balanced ( No, Black Guard deathstar, Dual Hydra and Black Dragon noobery, as well as dual Star Dragons and 3 of them per list ) Dark elves or High elves list is the best. They do not absolutely dominate a phase but can compete in all of them, although they can be tailored to rock at a certain one.

Now, if you dig through the threads of this, Warseer and generally any site you`ll come up with the same hatred for Daemons, Dark Elves and Vampire counts players ( the latter of which does my head in ) as they are considered the '' power '' three. Daemons generally are a good army, mono-god is devastating in one way, were as multi-god ( flaming dual thirster, flying tzeentch circus lists ) are what tourny players go for, and a daemons list without greaters is balanced, but *boring*

For VC, they are a generally balanced army, but then become '' cheesey '' due to certain things like raise spam, dreadlance, hasslehof grave guard and the like and the same goes for DE ( ASF Black Guard, RoH, Hydras ) _but_ these people are generally moaners ( although daemons are still WTF ) and you can make *any* army cheesey. From empire gunline / steam tank spam to 8 bolt thrower / 2 giant O&G, and 3-5 engines of the gods lizards with room for more stegadons and some skinks. The only exception is perhaps Ogres, though im sure Tim/Steve could say a thing or two about that!

anyway, rant over ( although feel free to attack daemons ) and yes I do like to use brackets:laugh:


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Daemons, DE, VC and the new skaven books are all very strong... but having said that there isnt a strongest army, just a stronger army: whatever you play and however you play it something out there will be stronger against you... 

eg Ogres.. they are a weak army that get totally mullered by a HE army but put them up against VC and suddenly they are almost unkillable (VC rely on the opponents not actually killing a lot and graveguard with KB... but ogres have no SCR so are built around killing the enemy to make up for it.. and KB doesnt work on them. Almost everyone would say that VC is a stronger army then ogres and yet I for one wouldnt back them if the players were equal.


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## HelbrechtBT (Oct 28, 2008)

The one with the Smartest/Luckiest general behind it.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Tim/Steve, from what Ive heard, short of dual hellpit / massed plague furnace lists ( yes, cheese is already in abundance ) the new Skaven are fairly balanced, if anything the new Hellpit abomination is not as good as Doomwheels, ive heard numorous lists only featuring one of each. Shooting has been nerfed for ratling guns and jezzails, but I wont start complaining until they get cavalry and rat dragons, and as for Stormvermin, pah! Id like to see a bunker of them go against a black guard bunker.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

plague furnace, hellpits and doomwheels are going to very very nasty. DE vs skaven could be very funny as DE tend to miscast a lot... and if you happen to let them get off a free spell that 13th cast on a 25+ could be comming out of the box.
Mostly its the plague mortars I really fear- you can place the mortar in the centre of a unit of chaos warriors with a 3+ save and you will kill 1/2 of those under the template or 1/3 of the people partially hit.... that is going to be a hell of a death toll unless some serious bad luck takes the blast off the unit (its only 1D6 scatter).
... and just try to get them to fail a Ld test while they still have the majority of the unit there (seriously.. they are better lead now then my HEs), throuw in unbreakable units and they'll stand up to a fight (bit of a change).


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

If we are taking it as an overall thing in my purest opinion 
Best Looking army: Bretts, their is nothing as nice to me at least as a brett army fully painted and geared for war

Best Gaming Army: Daemons are absolute filth but Skaven are fearfully nasty with the new codex. Still go with daemons as I havent seen a skaven army play yet.

Most challenging gaming army : For me its wood elves. Have to be mobile and one wrong move can cost you the game due to insanely fragile armour saves.

Overall best: This is simply me but vampire counts. Looks stunning when done properly, extremely hard to beat in my experience, the fluff is gorgeous and they are just great fun.

Thats my opinion and is easily proven wrong


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Well short of plenty of magic or a nasty gunline, I really dont see whats going to stop a hydra or dragon, although storm banner and shadow magnet trinket are going to spoil any gunlines day. As for Globe mortars they can also be attached to Globadiers and you can have, in every 5 globadiers 3 teams, but still, I feel that Skaven still need something like Warpfire throwers, Jezzails and Globadiers to compete with high toughness and armour save armies like Dwarves and Chaos. And against the current winging on Warseer I dont see how the book can be in the top short of Hellpit spam with several plague furnaces and alot of monks and censer bearers.


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

besides abomiantions i don't get what everyones problem iwth skaven is! For some reason thy've got a new book where hardly much changed and now we are really powerful and feared army?

What is it that makes us so scary?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Just a combo of things- lots of stuff that can get rid of armour saves completely, lots of forced T tests, lots of high Ld and some killer magic: no-one will ever want to miscast again... they let you get off the 13th spell on a freebee miscast and that 400pt unit is toast in 1 shot (Im just glad about my ogre rune maw bouncing spells to other units... protects my ogre deathstar in the big 12k games we play)... 

Basically they are the same as before but slightly killier in every aspect and without the Ld faults that they had before (if an important unit isnt Ld10 then something has gone terribly wrong- thats _way_ better Ld then my HE manage... and my ogres can only dream of anything remotely as good).


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

Tim/Steve said:


> Just a combo of things- lots of stuff that can get rid of armour saves completely, lots of forced T tests, lots of high Ld and some killer magic: no-one will ever want to miscast again... they let you get off the 13th spell on a freebee miscast and that 400pt unit is toast in 1 shot (Im just glad about my ogre rune maw bouncing spells to other units... protects my ogre deathstar in the big 12k games we play)...
> 
> Basically they are the same as before but slightly killier in every aspect and without the Ld faults that they had before (if an important unit isnt Ld10 then something has gone terribly wrong- thats _way_ better Ld then my HE manage... and my ogres can only dream of anything remotely as good).


the T checks aren't that bad , for a start i'm gonna geuss your talking about plague furnaces and plague censors , both are freznied so can be very easily baited , just to transport a furnace you need a sizeable unit of plague monks which is going to take up a quarter of you army in 2000 points if not more. Once the furnace is flanked the unit is pretty much doomed as it looses strength in numbers and the furnace can't do anything as it isn't in base contact.
Baiting frenzied unit and then flanking is nothing new.

Our ld is high but if it wasn't we would leg it , our ld is one better than a standard empire guy yet the play style of the two armies is very different empire play it defensive while skaven are more upfront which means they need to be able to weather it. Also we are dependent on our numbers , one you whittle down a clanrats numbers (which isn't hard) their ld drops very quickly. Skaven had strength in numbers in the old book too so i don't see why its suddenly changed.

Our magic is actually ok now , the 13th spell miscast - auto cast yes thats good but it requires a miscast and even a roll on the table so chance are slim it will happen and nobody ever wants to get a miscast any way.


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## CoNnZ (Mar 28, 2009)

Difficult what to say.Probably say daemons because they are extremely powerful and need little to no tactics to win a game. Just run forward and spam fire and stuff
VC can be cheesy if you do the raise spam but you can beat it by targetting one unit at a time until its completely gone.
I' probably gunna be called bias but one of the main reasons why DE win lots in tournaments is because they are very tactical and when placed using lots of tacics most cant compete with them. DE aren't as cheesy as people think seeing as the only real cheese unit is the hydra. Its mostly down to the fact that they are tactically rewarding. Much like WE they can mutliate any army because of how tactical they can be.
BTW has anyone stopped to think that its all the new books that are suddenly "cheesy". So maybe GW are just buffing up the killyness (new word ) of the fantasy armies?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Its called codex creep- new books are generally nastier to try to get people to buy the new army. Its not as noticeable in WFB as in 40k where if you compare the older books such as necrons/DE to the new such as SW/IG/orks they are at some serious disadvantages.

Hydras possibly are the cheesiest of cheesy units- they are powerful and almost impossible to misuse, it means noobies can field them with just about the same results as experienced players: move as skirmisher, march + breath weapon , 7 hatred S5 attacks plus 6 hatred S3 attacks... plus that stupid rule about only being able to allocate attacks onto the hydra (which would otherwise make the hydra relatively ok to deal with).... and all for 175pts, jeez
/rant
If it wasnt for the hydra I would respect the DE as a decently strong army that took some skill and judgement to use properly... sure their magic is nasty and deathstar hydra/hag graef units are evil but thats all properly costed and counterable (without the aid of a burning cannonball).


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> I' probably gunna be called bias but one of the main reasons why DE win lots in tournaments is because they are very tactical and when placed using lots of tacics most cant compete with them. DE aren't as cheesy as people think seeing as the only real cheese unit is the hydra.


Very tactical? yes, they _can_ be played tactically, just like VC _can_, the reason why DE are considered one of the ''power three'' is due to the fact they are _easier_ to abuse than other armies, alongside VC, and they have several units and items that are underpriced, such as PoK, RoH and of course Hydra. 

VC arn`t broken. They can be played cheesily in several ways, thus making them _easier_ to abuse than other armies, but unless you`ve gone for a real useless list then your going to stand a decent chance.

Daemons. Well... even with a cobbled together list are going to destroy all but the most cheesed lists, and when you actually abuse them, Im thinking mainly Tzeentch Flamer/Magic spam with Hounds for Wizard hunting and Thirtser for CC, then they become unto a level of their own.


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## CoNnZ (Mar 28, 2009)

Asides daemons though most lists are balanced seeing as pretty much all armies have at least one cheesy unit(except of course daemons where verything is cheesy ). DE have hydra, empire have pope mobile, VC have blood knights/black knights with drakenholf banner, dwarfs have anvil gunline, lizardmen have EotG and even tomb kings have destroyer of eternities. So really all is fine but daemons


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Most do.. but not all: closest my ogres come to cheese is the ironguts. Maneaters would be cheesy if they were 1/2 the points but nvm


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## Durzod (Nov 24, 2009)

The best army? The one that consistently beats the tar out of you. 
Seriously, I think the "best" army is the one that suits your pkay style and remperment. That said, if a new player asks me my opinion on which army to start with (and doesn't have any "I kinda like the looks of.." ideas) I usually recommend the Lizards.
Yhey're tough, strong (Saurus ,and Krox), nimble (skinks) and tend not to panic too often. Thay also are capable of being strong in any aspect of the game. Tha major drawback can be expense, but that's true of any army.
Maybe it's just me or the meta-game here, but I don't see wht Daemons are such a bugaboo. Sure, I've had my head handed to me by daemons. But for the most part I've had the best of the encounter no matter what army I'm facing them with. I haven't played WFB with them yet, as I based them for our 40k league and haven't found a satisfactory way to mount them on movement trays that looks ok. Maybe I'm too picky.
I have yet to face the new Skaven, so I figure they'll be in the ascendance until we get a handle on how to adjust old tactics to a new book. It happens every time.
Oh well, enough senile rambling. Guess I'll grab my walker and toddle off into the sunset.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Lizards are a bit slow: they have very strong combat units but its quite easy to avoid them... but in a beginner vs beginnner game I would certainly back the lizards player.

Daemons are nasty because its very difficult to build a bad list: pretty much everything is cheesy in its own way: you can look at a decent daemon list and think "hmmm, how do I deal with xxxxx unit" about pretty much everything on the board... while most armies there will only be 1-2 units that you really have to think about countering (eg DE- take out the hydras and the hag graef blackguard and the rest is likely to fall easily enough).
They also dont suffer from the gimmicky special rules of 40k which can sometimes let a 40k daemons army pretty much defeat itself... instead they get to never break (which means no shock destruction of your 400pt unit by something they should walk over)... throw in a banner of chaos glory on a BSB and their army become unbreakable in all but name (even a 6,6 rolled twice will only cause 2-3 wounds... _Oh No_).


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