# Daemons and Deepstriking



## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Hey Daemon players. I was wondering if you've found any effective strategies for deep striking daemons onto the table. 

So far, I've only deployed my daemons from the first turn. I've outflanked some Seekers, but that's the only abnormal deployment I've tried so far.

I just worry with deepstriking that 1) I won't land where I want to, and possibly mishap/miss the table; or 2) I can't assault after deepstriking, so all those bloodletters are just going to sit there and eat bullets with their 5+ save. 

I realize buffing a unit with the Grimoire is a decent option for the bullet-eating situation above, having a 3+ invuln would be pretty sick. Out of 20 daemons, there will be plenty (statistically) that will survive.

I also wonder how nice it could be to take a banner with the first squad you deepstrike, then deepstrike the remaining daemons around that unit. 3 potential charging units from the same spot if space permits. Dealing with that would require a lot of shooting.

Any thoughts/strategies on the subject?


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

It's a very valid option for things like Bloodletters who otherwise would be simply running 6+D6" per turn until they hit combat around turn 3. Obviously of less use to things like Hounds (which are fast like freaks already), Flying MCs, Psykers (who can't bless the turn they arrive) and units with shooting attacks (who want to be shooting from turn 1 most of the time).

The Mishap table and Dangerous Terrain both are much more forgiving than they were, so are less to worry about, although the usual precautions of not being within 12" of a table edge and ~8" of the enemy apply without an Icon.

Seekers are almost always going to be your best choice for Icon use - a reliable 20+ inches of movement on turn 1 makes for a very, very in-your-face Deep Strike turn 2 as well as allowing lots of freedom to use terrain to minimise incoming fire. The only question is what unit you're going to DS in with - Daemonettes, Letters or other. Whichever choice you make, I'd definitely use large units to maximise the benefit of not scattering and to withstand the shooting you're going to take on your way in.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

Sethis said:


> It's a very valid option for things like Bloodletters who otherwise would be simply running 6+D6" per turn until they hit combat around turn 3. Obviously of less use to things like Hounds (which are fast like freaks already), Flying MCs, Psykers (who can't bless the turn they arrive) and units with shooting attacks (who want to be shooting from turn 1 most of the time).
> 
> The Mishap table and Dangerous Terrain both are much more forgiving than they were, so are less to worry about, although the usual precautions of not being within 12" of a table edge and ~8" of the enemy apply without an Icon.
> 
> Seekers are almost always going to be your best choice for Icon use - a reliable 20+ inches of movement on turn 1 makes for a very, very in-your-face Deep Strike turn 2 as well as allowing lots of freedom to use terrain to minimise incoming fire. The only question is what unit you're going to DS in with - Daemonettes, Letters or other. Whichever choice you make, I'd definitely use large units to maximise the benefit of not scattering and to withstand the shooting you're going to take on your way in.


Pretty much this with a small addemdum; Horrors, even though a shooty unit, are great for deep striking IMO.
I prefer to use a couple of units of 11, have 1 unit behind an ADL (if I brought one) and the rest in reserve. Even though you might miss out on a turn or 2 or shooting horrors can't really shoot that far and I find them much more useful when I can potentially grab far away objectives in a hurry or just drop them in and apply pressure where it's needed the most.

Other than that the DS applications for daemons are pretty straightforward. Anything slow and CC oriented you should at least consider DS'ing before each game.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Horrors are a lot more flexible than most of our units, being able to put out a decent amount of twin linked S6 with the Herald (how I run them 99% of the time) so what I do with them will depend on the the enemy army, the table, the mission and so on - do I need them to thin out hordes turn 1 onwards? Do I need them for Side/Rear Armour hits? Do I need to cap an objective on a wide flank? Do I have another unit that needs the Divination buff to be effective such as Soul Grinders?


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

Sethis said:


> Horrors are a lot more flexible than most of our units, being able to put out a decent amount of twin linked S6 with the Herald (how I run them 99% of the time) so what I do with them will depend on the the enemy army, the table, the mission and so on - do I need them to thin out hordes turn 1 onwards? Do I need them for Side/Rear Armour hits? Do I need to cap an objective on a wide flank? Do I have another unit that needs the Divination buff to be effective such as Soul Grinders?


Precisely! It's funny because when the book first came out I dismissed them as weak and only useful behind an ADL, but the more I used them the more I came to love their utility and their low price.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Horrors did seem like a good candidate for DSing. Potentially 4d6 shots, +prescience. Don't see many people taking 20 horrors, though. That could be really nice against a lower toughness unit. Or even against Space Marines with t4, giving them a 6+ FNP shouldn't screw you over too badly, right?

The seekers sound like a really nice option for the icon, as you say. Bringing all the bloodletters on top of them would be badass! I'll give that a try.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

The list I've written for myself (and will play once it's painted up) is two units of:

Herald ML2 (Prescience and Flickering Fire) and Locus of Conjuration
20 Horrors
Blasted Standard plus Instrument

So a minimum of 4D6 S6 shots by the time the squad hits two members left (average of 14) but while it's at full strength it's putting out 6D6 S6 shots with twin linked (average of 21) with an option for a further 2D6 S4 hits -not shots- once per game.

So that's roughly 6 wounds on a T6 beastie or 14 wounds on a Marine Squad. Two units of those working in concert should kill whatever they aim at before the FnP thing comes into play, and even if it does, a 6++ is pretty damn ignorable most of the time.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Sethis said:


> So that's roughly 6 wounds on a T6 beastie or 14 wounds on a Marine Squad. Two units of those working in concert should kill whatever they aim at before the FnP thing comes into play, and even if it does, a 6++ is pretty damn ignorable most of the time.


Make that one unsaved wound on a Riptide after armor, assuming it doesn't Interceptor-pieplate your unit as it comes in. Or one unsaved wound on a Dreadknight. Or two unsaved wounds on most Tyranid MCs (almost up to 3 against a grounded/gliding Daemon Prince--impressive!). Or 2/3 of an unsaved wound on a Wraithknight.

Sorry, just being nitpicky.

As an additional minor aside, I've seen it argued that Psykers coming in from reserve don't generate Warp Charges, since they're not on the table at the beginning of the turn (when Warp Charges are generated). Mind you, I've also seen the counter-argument that all that stuff that is resolved simultaneously at the start of the turn, you get to decide what order things are resolve in (as supported by, say, the FAQ saying that a psyker _coming in from reserve_ can cast a blessing). So it's really a moot point.

+

What success have I had with Daemons and Deep Striking? Rather less success than I've had with Daemons and Reserves in general, let me tell you. See, there's this thing called Outflanking, and Slaaneshi Outflankers happen to have Acute Senses.

So what do you do? Seeker squads. Squads of 20 Daemonettes headed by a Slaherald with a Steed of Slaanesh also confers Outflanking to the unit, thanks to the wording of the Outflanking rule. For that matter, Flesh Hounds also have Outflanking, and make excellent retinues for Juggerheralds of Khorne. Or if you want to flip the equation, Karanak can Scout a squad of Bloodletters into Outflanking.

To run a list with a significant assault force made up of these units, you need to have half of your units on the board to start the game, so you need to indulge in MSU spam with the rest of your force--some Guard allies should fill up that category cheaply, as well as giving you a decent fire-base and objective holders.

Voila.

+

If I wanted to stick to Deep Strike, though, hmm. Well, I've put Skarbrand to good use a few times coming in to buff my T2 assault-with-everything Slaaneshi wave army list, coupling the I5 with his buffs and a unit of Bloodletters with the Banner of Blood to get him right where I want him. Mind you, this list hinges upon also having Huron as my Warlord for his trait to zip those Daemonettes and Bloodletters right up the field.

I imagine you could also throw in a melee Soul Grinder (of Khorne, possibly, to benefit from the Banner of Blood) DSing in. Multiple DSing Soul Grinders is an idea I've been toying around with, and it seems like @Duskan has had some success with it. I mean, it's basically an Ironclad Dreadnought coming down in their face, albeit with less scatter safety and some cooler options purchasable.

I've been wanting to try using Plague Drones as a dedicated summoning locator for a Plaguebearer horde, but don't quite have the models for such a list yet. Really, I imagine that most mono-Nurgle lists must rely on DSes for getting where they want to be, seeing as they sure as hell aren't going to walk there very fast.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Mossy Toes said:


> Make that one unsaved wound on a Riptide after armor, assuming it doesn't Interceptor-pieplate your unit as it comes in. Or one unsaved wound on a Dreadknight. Or two unsaved wounds on most Tyranid MCs (almost up to 3 against a grounded/gliding Daemon Prince--impressive!). Or 2/3 of an unsaved wound on a Wraithknight.


Hence why I didn't say "unsaved wounds" because they all have different levels of protection!


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## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

*Looks up from chaotic tactics notepad* Karanak and bloodletters you say? Interesting...


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Tried deepstriking Pink Horrors...They scattered. I mishaped. They died. I haven't done it again. I would probably try it again though giving someone an instrument to prevent scatter. I think one they have deep striked they could probably do some decent damage at full strength and especially with a tzherald.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Iraqiel said:


> *Looks up from chaotic tactics notepad* Karanak and bloodletters you say? Interesting...


Indeed. Why stick the character with the Collar of Khorne in the unit with the Collar of Khorne? I'd rather give Bloodletters +2 to Deny the Witch than the unit that already has that bonus. (As a small aside, you can then buy the Adamantium Will Locus for a Juggerherald in a unit of Flesh Hounds for dirt cheap to give them +3 to Deny the Witch instead of +2). The aura of 12" doubles=Perils is also nice, definitely.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Mossy Toes said:


> Indeed. Why stick the character with the Collar of Khorne in the unit with the Collar of Khorne? I'd rather give Bloodletters +2 to Deny the Witch than the unit that already has that bonus. (As a small aside, you can then buy the Adamantium Will Locus for a Juggerherald in a unit of Flesh Hounds for dirt cheap to give them +3 to Deny the Witch instead of +2). The aura of 12" doubles=Perils is also nice, definitely.


That sounds really fun. Maybe there is more left for me to pick up, yet. There's always more, isn't there? :shok:


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Nevermind, I found the answer to my question. I was trying to be clever, but it didn't happen.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

I don't know what the question was, but caught the front end of it in my post quotes notifications, and would just idly throw out a reminder to keep in mind that a Lord or Sorcerer with the Mark of Slaanesh can still buy a Steed of Slaanesh to give Scout and Acute Senses to a CSM unit...


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Ah, very true! That definitely helps.


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