# Does anyone use SM bike squads?



## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Not really used bike squads for SMs before so I'd like some opinions, please.

Right, here's the 'givens';

I will be using a (possibly more) bike squad(s); I don't know what I'll be using them against, but likely to include Eldar, Orks, Chaos and other SMs as regular opponents; I'm open to all suggestions vis-a-vis attack bikes etc; no traits and not a White Scars list...

and here's the question; 

how would you configure your squad in terms of:
1 numbers;
2 sergeant (vet with wargear?); 
3 special weapons(flamers? plasma?); 
4 attack bikes (yes? no? bolters? meltas?); 
5 anything I've missed out?

Thanks in advance for your collective help, oh wisest of 40k dudes and (potentially) dudesses.


----------



## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

Bikes are one of the most overlooked units in the game, my advice would be to make them specialized squads. Keep all anti-tank units in one squad, anti-troop squads in another, and anti-hvy troop squads in another. That way you can play each squad totaly to thier strengths.


----------



## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Its a good tactic if you can keep them alive, unfortunately you often have those specialized targets getting shot up and taken out, so while specialized units have their place, because of the fact that they make targets its good to have a couple back ups in your meat units or your bread n' butter units


----------



## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

'overlooked' is one word for it, if your being polite.

Bikes die as quickly as Marine if shot at or in assault...but cost more than double.


----------



## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Yeah, but they look cool.

So I got a couple (or 3), now I need to find out what to do with them...


----------



## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

> Yeah, but they look cool.
> 
> So I got a couple (or 3), now I need to find out what to do with them...


That's pretty much the same reason I have a couple.

What to do with them?

Paint them up nicely, have them as a centerpiece of a display case, dust them regularly, and wait for 5th Ed or very large games to get them out.


----------



## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Exactly, Jeridian!  

You can use them to swing around tanks and bust their rear armours, but obviously your opponent would know thats precisely what you were planning to do so they will get mowed down.


----------



## Severian (Jan 22, 2007)

While it is true that bikes are very expensive and not used a lot (the words eggs and basket springs to mind) there is some good news if you want to use them. First of use the terrain, if the whole army is shooting at you, you will die. Don't go through terrain if you can help it and as a rule stay out of assault, oh and turbo boost. The boosting gives you a 3+ invulnerable save* against shooting* Furthermore use more than 3 bikes, you really need a bigger squad (my opinion) and if you are going to get into assault stick a chappie on a bike in there, the litanies of hate makes a big difference and the extra point of toughness does your chaplain a world of good. Now stick a PF/PW plus BP on your veteran sergeant and you have some smackdown going. Take 2 melta or 2 flamers depending if you are going for troops or tanks (I avoid plasma because I keep on blowing up my expensive bikers)Personally I like the melta guns with melta bombs on the sarge (my preference)

Oh and remember they will be a priority target for your opponent because of the threat that they represent in terms of armor killing, maneuverability and points value so give him more than one target and (once again) use terrain. Usually going up a flank is a good idea. Don't be over eager with them, remember they can get there fast so don't hang their asses alone out front where all those points are going to get blown to hell for nothing. Use them as part of a combined strategy.

So in short, bikes are fun and cool and ... really expensive but they can be used effectively just don't expect to see them on tournament lists everywhere.
8)


----------



## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Severian: I like the chaplain tactic, because if there's one thing looks cooler than a marine on a bike, it's a black marine in a skull-mask on a bike, with a big stick for the hittin with. With you on plasma, OK for basic marines, not so good if you self-destruct a vet serge on a bike, that's a lot of points just got hot, but even a normal marine+bike is more than enough... so, maybe the melta...

What about the old 'give the vet serge/chaplain a teleport homer' routine? Got to admit, I quite like the thought of causing my opponent the headache of 'jeez where's he gonna put the Termies?'

Can't do it with the PF though. Just a style thing, really, I mean, tactically it's sound, but the idea of having this massively heavy fist that you clatter someone with as you go past... it's just not aesthetically pleasing!

I don't propose that the whole army will be shooting at my bikes, if they do, well, I'm prepared to lose the bikes, but my opponent has to be prepared to lose half his army to my approx 60 marines, many of which have big and/or nasty weapons. On another thread I was advised that my veteran tankhunters and razorback would be the things attracting all the fire. Fine, shoot the bikes, shoot the vets, shoot the razorback, my devs will take you out, bwa-ha-haha-HA, etc.

I do take the main point though. Cover, don't commit too early. Got it. Oh, and 'don't enter tounaments' is probably quite good advice too, cheers! :lol: 

Jeridian: ah, not really a 'paint it up nice and put it on a shelf to look at' player, more a 'stop painting it before it gets any worse, then knock it off the table and break something' kinda player (can't help it. Orc, see?). But the squad's in a (roughly) 2,000pt army with around 12 other squads, is that big enough do you reckon? Or do I have to get a load more stuff to provide enough "chaff" to allow my bikes to survive?


----------



## Severian (Jan 22, 2007)

Red Orc said:


> I don't propose that the whole army will be shooting at my bikes, if they do, well, I'm prepared to lose the bikes, but my opponent has to be prepared to lose half his army to my approx 60 marines, many of which have big and/or nasty weapons. On another thread I was advised that my veteran tankhunters and razorback would be the things attracting all the fire. Fine, shoot the bikes, shoot the vets, shoot the razorback, my devs will take you out, bwa-ha-haha-HA, etc.


The problem with loosing bikes is that model for model you are losing a lot of victory points (they are expensive) and due to the high points cost they leave a hole in your army. If however as you point out there are other hight threat units (tank hunters with Razorback, devastators, termies etc.) that forces him to either ignore certain units or split his fire. Either way it is all good. ( see my previous post about giving him multiple targets). If you are going to leave the PF at home then take a power weapon and meltabombs on the sarge to deal with vehicles .

Enjoy those scooters!


----------



## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

I have fifteen bikes in my 2nd Company list, I field them as such

Squad Thesus
-Sgt w/ Power weapon and melta bombs
-9 SM bikers 
-2 w/ melta guns

Squad Harlen
-Sgt w/ Power weapon and melta bombs
-4 SM bikers
-2 w/ melta guns

I use them as shock troops, breaking a line for the ground pounders and then destroying armor behind the lines once my army breaks through. The melta guns and Power weapons are good for Dreads, Hive Tyrants, pesky multi-wounders, and Eldar Wraithlords and Wraithguard. Pretty much anything besides tremendous numbers my Bikers can handle.

-Dirge


----------



## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

> I have fifteen bikes in my 2nd Company list, I field them as such


what army would that be? SM bikers cant have more than 5 bikes+ atk bike


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

A White Scars army (or one with the Be Swift as the Wind trait) can have biker squads up to ten-strong. 


As for bikers... 

A Space Marine Battle Company has two Assault Squads, which provide for both Land Speeder crews and Bike Squadrons when fielded. The first question is whether you're going to bother paying attention to that little tidbit of fluff, because if you are, you're going to be limiting yourself to a total of 20 Assault Marines. The question then becomes, "What role do my Assault Marines need to play in the army?" 

If you've got a firepower intensive army, a bike squadron is probably not your best bet unless you FREQUENTLY play against an army which includes lots of indirect fire units which your more static firepower units won't be able to get to easily. However, if you've devoted most of your points to delivering your Tactical Squads to close combat, bikers can fill the role of tank hunters as effectively as a devastator squad, with far more mobility so they can lend their aid in a combat if need be. Ultimately, a bike squadron equipped to go tank hunting is going to be cheaper than a lot of other options for similar duties, which leaves you more to devote to your assault. It's purely personal preference as to whether you want to field Marines on Bikes or go with Land Speeders-- you can do the same thing with both for the most part, but keep in mind that bikes do have much more staying power.

As for armament... I'd take a pair of meltaguns and give the sergeant a power fist. If you take an attack bike, give it a heavy bolter-- that way, if the squad doesn't have a lot to chew on tank-wise, it can lend some support to the twin linked bolters. I'd leave the Attack Bike at home, personally.


----------



## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Greyskullscrusade said:


> > I have fifteen bikes in my 2nd Company list, I field them as such
> 
> 
> what army would that be? SM bikers cant have more than 5 bikes+ atk bike


My 2nd Company list has Swift as the Wind and See But Don't be Seen.

Very sneaky. Kind of reminicent of the Ravenwing I suppose, but then again, my Mountain Angels are a sucessor!

-Dirge


----------



## Severian (Jan 22, 2007)

Greyskullscrusade said:


> > I have fifteen bikes in my 2nd Company list, I field them as such
> 
> 
> what army would that be? SM bikers cant have more than 5 bikes+ atk bike


With the exception of attack bikes can you not have 5 bikes per fast attack slot with regular codex marines? I need to go and check my codex ... :?:


----------



## matty570 (Jun 14, 2007)

I used a squad of 5 bikes + attack bike as a delivery system for my librarian, also had some success with a chaplain carrying a lightning claw.

It was quite impressive but you had to be clever about the deployment of the unit as they could easily get shot to poop. In addition my lib just drove behind them I didnt actually attach him to the unit unless I came across a dread or something - casting might of heroes on a vet sarge w/power fist is quite handy (forgive the pun)


----------



## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

The Son of Horus said:


> A White Scars army (or one with the Be Swift as the Wind trait) can have biker squads up to ten-strong...


Nope, no matter how hard I look, this isn't in my codex. Bike squads can be up to 5 models, plus an attack bike, plus any attached character who doesn't count towards unit totals anyway; any squad taken as troops under 'Be swift as the wind' must be at least 5 models... ie five models or five models plus attack bike... doesn't say can be ten... and a White Scars list is a 'Be swift as the wind' trait-list anyway, isn't it (at least, since the 'new' SM codex came out about 3 years ago)?

Of course, I may have got hopelessly wrong, I often do...

:cyclops:


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Check which printing of the Codex you have. It may be something that was FAQ'ed. Or, it's entirely possible that I'm wrong, and I've been playing against an illegal army for a long time.


----------



## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

My edition says (c) 2004, but is printed 2005.

Don't recall a FAQ about it, doesn't mean there isn't one.

There used to be a White Scars list, didn't there (was it in Armaggedon?)? (Too many question marks there!) - maybe the 10-man squads were to do with that?

Dunno really, can't say I've ever really looked, but I've never come across mentions of 10-man squads anywhere other than this thread.

:cyclops:


----------



## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Oops! My mistake fellas. I was probably half-alive at the time I wrote that. 

Refined list.

THREE five-man squads, each with sgt w/power weapon and 2x melta gunz.

-Dirge


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Bikes are expensive.
Hideously, horribly expensive.

Assault squads are cheaper, more mobile and almost as well armed. Just no T4(5)

Meanwhile, Attack Bikes (for new codex marines like BA and DA) are cheapo and highly effective. A squad of 3 multimelta attack bikes is cheaper than 5 bikes with no upgrades (for new dex lists. Old dex lists the MMs cost more, still cheap though)

And for old dex marines, there's Typhoon Speeders. Two typhoons for about the cost of 5 bikes.

Bikes are ok, but compared to all the other FA choices they're just too overpriced for no more than they deliver.


----------



## Xethemez (Jan 3, 2007)

Hi all, this is my first post on Heresy Online.

Generally I would agree that bikes are over-priced and aren't tough enough, however, I have found a good use for them in my Templar list, I find they make a great supporting firepower unit in footslogging Templar armies.

I tend to use squads with 3 plasmaguns and keep them cheap (Templars get the discount on plasmaguns too), then I just use them as fast, skirmishing firepower units to support my infantry and if neccacary, due to being fearless in combat they can tie up annoying shooty units and buy the infantry some time.

Obviously this is quite a specialist use for them, but that is how I use them.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I've always wanted a white scars army  but they've never really had a good list even with traits they still under powered and expensive.


----------



## Sammus Ventris (Oct 31, 2007)

Hmm,bikes dont like them verry mutch they die as easy as normal marines indeed i field jetpackdude's i think they are more usefull but hey that is my way of thinking alo landspeeders are the top i use two tornado's multi melta and assault cannons super anti tank busters:victory: and great for splattering inf all over the place


----------



## Sammus Ventris (Oct 31, 2007)

oh you can try to give the sgt. a teleporthomer juts ride your bike in the enemy and teleport some nasty closecombat unit's right in theire mids,bike's are more a chaos thing 
drive a bike in the enemy boom instant deamon infestation and abbadon and the rest of the eye of terror right in the middel of the enemy's army or right in the middel of your army believe me that suck's BIGtime:biggrin:


----------



## Darkangeldentist (Oct 31, 2007)

Bikes are difficult.

I think the crux of their problems are that people forget what they are there for. Mobile support, speed is their most significant ability.

They don't match the alternatives for combat or dedicated firesupport but they can be where ever you need them. Turbo-boost was a godsend to bikes and they can now out-manoeuvre almost everything else in the game. The 3+ invulnerable save helps a lot as well.

People using a single squad should think about what they want them to do. The choice of two special weapons mean you can dedicate them to a particular task if you want and the sergeant gives even more options. I find it best to give a mix of options so they can deal with anything. A flamer, melta and a powerfist is my prefered setup for a full squad but it's all a matter of taste. Once you've got your plan for the unit try to make sure you can execute it, i.e. hide. When you deploy them keep them completely out of sight, doesn't matter much where they go, one turbo-boost and they'll be set for whatever you want them to do next turn. Most of all though, make sure they don't operate alone.

I use a Ravenwing army mostly made up of bikes and attack bikes (18 bikes and 4 attack bikes). I give them a medley of special weapons and have 3 tornados plus Sammael on jetbike in support. This army has been amazingly fun to use and successful on the table. Bike based armies are viable but aren't for everyone.


----------



## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

i've got 2 attack bikes and 3 normal bikes but have never used them


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

The biggest use I've found for bikes is chasing down Crisis suits and other units that are able to jump out of assault range with their jet packs. Turbo boost makes it extremely difficult for the Tau to get away, and a determined biker squad (i.e. the kind that's not bare bones with a pair of meltaguns) can outfight an armored Tau unit without breaking a sweat.


----------



## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Rreally been thinking about a biker squad for my chaos, ive got almost no speed to my list and daemons plus a few termies, so infiltrating chosen + bikers + rhinos im hoping that will kind of counter my mainly foot sloggin army, not to mention, nurgle bikers T4(6) okgo! making them a bit harder to kill so that + the turbo boosting and you have a effective delivery sqaud and that would counter my termies almost never being able to reach CC


----------



## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Quite simply, bikers are good for turbo-boosting around that pesky (insert most feared battle tank here) and opening up with melta gunz.

-Dirge


----------



## Sons of Russ (Dec 29, 2007)

Xethemez said:


> Hi all, this is my first post on Heresy Online.
> 
> Generally I would agree that bikes are over-priced and aren't tough enough, however, I have found a good use for them in my Templar list, I find they make a great supporting firepower unit in footslogging Templar armies.
> 
> ...


I got a kick out of using this unit a long a few years ago... 3 plasma shots with an effective range of 36"!

I think attack bikes are great. I use a BA list, but still arm them with Heavy Bolters. I don't like the MM because i can still accomplish my anti-tank with a turbo boost behind terrain, then get behind tanks and indirect fire with with should net you a few glances and maybe even a pen. I also find its too much of a temptation to go after tanks head-on when you have on. Then you are relying on a single shot weapon and your bikes have become far too exposed.


----------



## kjhome9703 (Dec 31, 2007)

Jeridian said:


> 'overlooked' is one word for it, if your being polite.
> 
> Bikes die as quickly as Marine if shot at or in assault...but cost more than double.


Everytime I have play my attack bikes in a game it has always been "1 and done." And if you play 1500pt game they do not seem to be worth the point investment.


----------



## Spector (Dec 30, 2007)

White Scars and Ravenwing are both examples of SM armies that are made up primarily of bikes and are quite deadly when played correctly. Black Templars also get a nice perk with bike squads of getting 3 meltaguns in the unit. Just be careful with the bikes and utilize their speed and you will be fine.


----------



## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> I occasionally ie once every 10 games use a unit of 8 bloodclaw bikers. I usually have them armed wi powerfists and flamers. I use them as a shock unit, cos the 3 attacks on the charge help. Flamer cos BCs have a shite ballistic skill. As been said before though, bikes are expensive, do draw fire, but used properly can kick serious ass. I usually have a Wolf Guard battle leader with them.


----------



## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

if I was to ever field a bike squad it would consist of 3 bikes with 2 melta guns and a sgt with power fist they would go tank hunting


----------



## Sons of Russ (Dec 29, 2007)

kjhome9703 said:


> Everytime I have play my attack bikes in a game it has always been "1 and done." And if you play 1500pt game they do not seem to be worth the point investment.


"1 and done"

I take it you roll a 1 for your save.... which leads me to me to believe you think that Attack bikes are still 1 wound with a 2+ save...

Forgive me if I am mistaken... But if I am right you should know that they are now a 3+ save with two wounds.

Coupled with toughness 4(5), turboboosters and invulnerable save that goes with it, I feel they are rather tough. 

They are fast enough that you should be able to pick your path to avoid LOS until your upon your target.


----------



## Terminator (Nov 17, 2007)

I think that bikes could have very careful, specialized niche uses in certain lists. But attack bikes are much easier to implement in an army, either version.


----------

