# Isstvaan Survivors make it off-world.



## Longfang1234 (Jan 22, 2011)

In the Legions that turned to Horus, notable the Isstvaan Legions, if the loyalists in those Legions made it off-world and escaped their brothers, would they be accepted into the Loyalist's ranks back in Terra? I find this interesting because I can see the Imperium turning their back on these loyalists and condemning them. 

I'm thinking say around half the number of the survivors on the surface of Isstvaan III made it off world, say around five thousand in total, World Eaters Death Guard Sons of Horus and the Emperor's children, maybe led by Loken and Torgaddon and possibly Tarvits. What would be the reaction from the pure loyalists? 

I know this probably couldn't happen considering that the planet had been virus-bombed to shit, but this is completely hypothetical. 

Also, another wee snippet, I must've missed it, by why where the Crusader Host interned on Terra? Like all of them, I know that they contained members of most Legions, but Atharva was a Thousand Son and they hadn't yet been condemned had they? I was under the Impression that the Host had been interned before Magnus' destruction of the Imperial Webway.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

It seems unlikely that very many individuals survived. We know Loken managed to survive and get off world but he seems to be pretty much unique in this aspect.

However, hypothetically I think loyalists from the traitor Legions would be accepted by the Imperium, though not trusted very much (probably not allowed to operate alone). This is because the Imperium of this time seems a lot more trusting and doesn't view Chaos as being as insidious a threat. Plus they'd need the manpower, as the Heresy pushed the Imperium pretty close to the brink and I'd doubt the loyalists would spare Marines willing to fight. 

I don't know what this Crusader Host you're talking about is, is it from _Outcast Dead_?


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## Longfang1234 (Jan 22, 2011)

Hmm yeah nah I know they probably didn't survive and have no idea how they would, but the reactions from whoever they were found by drifting in deep space similar to the _Eisenstien_ would be interesting. I mean Dorn was ready to strike Garro down was he not and I see him as one of the more sophisticated of the Primarchs. To an extent. What if Russ found a handful of them? He'd surely have an interesting reaction. Imagine the reaction on Terra if they recuperated there. And if they survived the Heresy (assuming it turned out the same) would they be welcomed back into the fold once the traitors had been pushed back? 

All hypothetical though. Appreciate your input man. 

And yeah the Crusader Host from _Outcast Dead_.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The persecution of the Thousand Sons happened *before* the Drop Site Massacre, so Atharva was the most likely to be have been confined.


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## Longfang1234 (Jan 22, 2011)

Ah okay, so the Crusader Host consisted of purely Traitor forces or both Loyalist and Traitor? Atharva quoted something like ''He could only use five of the twelve prisoners''? I couldn't work out if he was talking about other space marines or simply other prisoners. 

Also, I could the feeling that the prisoners had been there for years. I'll try find quotes and stuff.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Longfang1234 said:


> I mean Dorn was ready to strike Garro down was he not and I see him as one of the more sophisticated of the Primarchs.


Dorn wants to hurt Garro for slandering his brother, he refuses to believe Garro's claim that Horus has turned traitor, not for being a traitor.



> What if Russ found a handful of them?


Depends. If you buy there self-hype then Russ would turn them over to the Emperor like a good little boy. Personnally I think he'd murder them right quick.



> And if they survived the Heresy (assuming it turned out the same) would they be welcomed back into the fold once the traitors had been pushed back?


I'd guess a punative crusade would be in order, much like those that the Mantis Warriors and such are currently involved in.


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## Longfang1234 (Jan 22, 2011)

Thats what I mean how would each Primarch act? Would they all be ready to strike a marine for saying something similar?

Yeah I believe Russ would just cut him down where he stood. As would Sanguinius possible out of his love for Horus.

Maybe something along them lines but then I doubt the Ecclesiarchy was as established then so I can't see that happening really.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I very much doubt Sanguinius would strike an astartes down for delivering such news. He's easily one of the most compassionate and approachable primarchs.

As for the Crusader Host, it consisted of both loyal and traitor astartes, though in Mcneills screwed up timeline the Thousand Sons were still in the clear. Atharva and the other loyalists seem to have been imprisoned by association. Dorn and the Custodes just couldn't take a risk that any traitors were free to roam Terra.


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## Longfang1234 (Jan 22, 2011)

I suppose, we need more depth on Sanguinuis' character first. 

Ah, thats interesting. Why were the Loyalists imprisoned? And what do you think of their fate?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I don't think we do really, IMO anyway. Sanguinius (along with Vulkan probably), is easily the most caring and 'nice' of the primarchs. 

Like I said the loyalists would have been imprisoned by association with the astartes from the traitor legions. Dorn and the Custodes had no way of knowing if they were corrupted by the traitors or not. Add that to the fact that many of the legions loyaltys were still not certain.


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## Longfang1234 (Jan 22, 2011)

What so even the members of the Legions who were sent to crush Horus' rebellion? That seems a bit counterproductive. Also what would the loyalists Legions who were dying to preserve the Imperium say to that.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

They could have been White Scars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, all of whom were out of contact with Terra for a long time, any of them could have turned traitor for all Malcador and Dorn knew.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I think it all depends how soon after Isstvan V they showed themselves.

Mind you, I don't think we're talking about Isstvan survivors. Unless Saul Tarvitz and Ancient Rylanor worked some magic and discovered some warp-capable shuttles under the palace they were holed up in, I doubt FIVE of those guys made it out (including Loken)... never mind five thousand.

As for the rest? A short story from "Age of Darkness" shows how Loyalists who reject their Traitor Legion brethren can be received by the Imperium quite gladly.


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## mob16151 (Oct 20, 2011)

Angel of Blood said:


> They could have been White Scars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, all of whom were out of contact with Terra for a long time, any of them could have turned traitor for all Malcador and Dorn knew.


Arrest them all, and we'll sort it out later. It also nicely shows the Imperium sliding away from it's "enlightened" ideals.


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## vipertaja (Mar 20, 2010)

Personally I don't understand why people are so damned hellbent on undoing the Isstvaan events. If everyone except Bob (who stubbed his toe) made it to a shuttle and are merrily off, it kind of reduces the weight of the whole thing. I feel the traitor legions need all the victories they can get since they will lose in the end anyway.

Also, Torgaddon is DEAD dead. IIRC his head took a divorce from his body. Loken survived, be happy with that.

Hypothetically speaking, members from traitor legions would probably be treated with suspision or be put under observation, now that the heresy is on. Garro's crew were a bit different in that they revealed the heresy to begin with.


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## Longfang1234 (Jan 22, 2011)

I never said it was what I desired to happen in the book. Its just to see everyone's thoughts hypothetically. I don't understand where you're coming from with this blazing rant on how the Isstvaan warriors are dead. I know that, I read the book. Hahaha. Loken made it off, but that isn't what this is about. I'd like to see peoples thoughts on how they'd be received by the Imperium. I'm not trying to attack the storyline or groan about how they all died, thanks :clapping:


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I admit I would like to see the fate of Ancient Rylanor. The other Isstvaanians could have all died for all I care

It is well known he "Would not run away from a fight" as Lord Commander Eidolon yet listens when Tarvitz tells him too. I doubt he would without good reason.

Perhaps he could be rescued by the Imperial Fist sweep of the area led by Sigismund. That would be a more fitting testament than "buried under rubble for no good reason".


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Agree totally. Would love to find out what happened to him.


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## vipertaja (Mar 20, 2010)

Longfang1234 said:


> I never said it was what I desired to happen in the book. Its just to see everyone's thoughts hypothetically. I don't understand where you're coming from with this blazing rant on how the Isstvaan warriors are dead. I know that, I read the book. Hahaha. Loken made it off, but that isn't what this is about. I'd like to see peoples thoughts on how they'd be received by the Imperium. I'm not trying to attack the storyline or groan about how they all died, thanks :clapping:


Ok. I mistook your hypothetical scenario for a hopeful speculative one.

It wasn't exactly a "blazing rant", mind you, but I've seen many actually suggest that it would/should have been a somewhat survivable event, when the whole point of it is that it wasn't. (I'll grant that Rylanor could have survived whether he made it off the planet or not, but we may never know.)

To answer your hypothetical, it depends IMO if the survivors make it to Terra with Garro or after him. In the first scenario they might be treated more or less like his crew, but in the latter option I think they might be under some observation.(Though I guess someone like Saul Tarvitz surviving could be convincing and vouched for by Garro)


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## RedThirstWill Destroy (Nov 10, 2011)

Didn't Rylanor go underground to protect something, can't remember sure i read it in the book, what was it that needed protecting some ancient weapon?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Believe it was an underground hanger of sorts. Which is why some hold into the hope Tarvitz and co. could have survived. Why send Rylanor to guard an underground(presumably protected from bombardment) hanger and then not go to it himself later? Whatever happens I hope they explore it more


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## Lord Lorne Walkier (Jul 19, 2009)

vipertaja said:


> Ok. I mistook your hypothetical scenario for a hopeful speculative one.
> 
> It wasn't exactly a "blazing rant", mind you, but I've seen many actually suggest that it would/should have been a somewhat survivable event, when the whole point of it is that it wasn't. (I'll grant that Rylanor could have survived whether he made it off the planet or not, but we may never know.)
> 
> To answer your hypothetical, it depends IMO if the survivors make it to Terra with Garro or after him. In the first scenario they might be treated more or less like his crew, but in the latter option I think they might be under some observation.(Though I guess someone like Saul Tarvitz surviving could be convincing and vouched for by Garro)


As some one who thinks Isstvan /was/ a survivable event, let me chime in. I have thought for some time that Tarvitz and around 100 fellow Astartes made it back to Terra from the surface war on Isstvan III. I first had thought that by showing Loken made it it would also open the Door for the rest. Trying to convince people that Loken lived was like pulling teeth. There are so many hints that this would happen but very few would even consider it because it flew in the face of what we have been lead to believe. Now that Loken has returned people feel that he must be a one shot. All the hints like Rylanor and a underground hanger swept under the rug. I have uncovered some evidence that can not be so safely ignored. I can show that their was at least one other loyalist survivor of Isstvan III, that did not make it out when the Eisenstein took flight, yet made it to Terra. I am convinced he was with Tarvits as Horus gave his parting bombardment. His name is Masa Varren.

Captain Masa Varren is a name that has been with us just as long as Garro and the Eisenstein. To quote some one who i agree with 100%. the best summation of all the old fluff about Varren and the Eisenstein is this...

from the B&c.. Brother-Captain Alecto


> The Eisenstein is a matter of massive contradiction. First off, in Realm of Chaos, it was a Chaos frigate that the Istvaan III loyalists hijacked. No names were mentioned, nut accounts indicate that the marines were in company strength. Then we get the newer things, in the 1989 Space Marine book, which first mentioned Garro's name. Other sources state that the 70 marines were lead by Captain Varren of the World Eaters and escaped in Thunderhawk transports.
> 
> Still another source suggests that Captain Saul Tarvitz of the Emperor's Children led the group. According to this account, Varren's World Eaters were supposed seize control of the Eisenstein at the same time that the other Marines would take control of four separate ships (presumably their own transports/frigates) and use these vessels to defend the Eisenstein so it could jump to Warp Space. This does not mesh seamlessly with later sources, which indicate that Garro, not Varren or Tarvitz, was responsible for warning the Emperor of the Heresy and which seem to imply that all 70 Marines accompanied him to Terra


Now given the above i have found evidence to corroborate the account in the new HH book by BL. 

A ) In Garro: Legion of One, We learn Garro rescues a abandoned Loken from Isstvan III. Not only that but Varren is indeed with him. I think it is hinted that this was not Varren's first time on Isstvan III but it dose not come right out and say it, much do my frustration.

B ) In Flight of the Eisenstein Verran is noted at being present in the Area of Isstvan III, on two separate occasions.
1 ) pg 210 as the Eisenstein has begun its flight. Garro wants to broadcast that the Warmaster is a Traitor to the whole fleet. He thinks "There were noble men out there, he was sure of it, warriors like Loken and Toragoddon in the Warmaster's own Legion, and Varren of the World Eaters... If only he could contact them, save thier lives; but to do so would have meant suicide for everyone on the frigate.
2 ) Pg 284 Garro weighed the slate in his hand. 'seventy men, Iacton. Out of the thousands of Astartes at Isstvan, we are all that still live beyond the reach of the Warmaster's treachery'. The words were still difficult for him to say aloud, and he saw that Qruze found it just as hard to hear them.
There will be others,' insisted the Luna Wolf. "Tarvitz, Loken, Varren... all of them are good, staunch warriors who won't see such rebellion without opposing it.' 

Varren was not on board the Eisenstein yet he was with with Garro some 6 ish year later on a mission to return to Isstvaan III to rescue Loken. It makes since to me. If you were Garro, would you not take a survivor of the ground war to accompany you? If Varren lived then so could Tarvits. I will concede that thus far we have no proof that Varren got his boots on the ground of Isstvan III. However to have him escape the way Garro did would be redundant. To think he was loyal and managed not to make it to the ground war in the 7 ish months that the war took is unlikely. The most likely path of Varren runs parallel to that of Tarvitz. 

I understand why people don't want this to be so. I don't agree with you and i feel the evidence is on my side.


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