# Grey Knights are softcocks!



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Per my connections to a secret and trustworthy source, I was able to partake of all the goodness of the Grey Knight release a day or two ahead of schedule. 

And fuck me dead, those uber death marines are a bunch of pussies! 

Okay, let me clarify a few things first: 

1: That ott fluff on Draigo _is_ for real. But having read the entry myself rather than hearing it second hand, I have to say it is somewhat credible. What mindfucked me is the Justicar Thawn or some such. Seriously, the guy cannot be killed (?!) 

2: Voltron is ALIVE! The Dreadknight was not a joke, that thing actually looks like that. However despite my reading the rules several times, there was no mention of him breaking down into smaller vehicles... :grin: 

3: Every Grey Knight has a fucking Force Weapon and furthermore they have additional rules that essentially say FUCK YOU SUCKA to any unfortunate models hoping to hide behind their eternal warrior rule. Sorry daemon players, you are royally boned. 


So why do I think they`re softcocks? Simple! 

1: The shrouding is gone. Lo and behold, tau and IG can bomb them to hell from turn 1. Power armour ain`t invincible. Even termi armour WILL fail eventually. 

2: Their points costs are high. Very high. The Paladin`s upgrade to apothecary costs more than the model itself to begin with! WTF?! 

3: High Points = Low body count. And that means my beloved xenos have little to fear. Enough Gauss fire or enough gaunts can solve any problem. 


So, in conclusion, The GK can deal a fuckton of damage to be sure. But when it comes to the other player`s turn, they are just as squishy as any other marine. 

My opinion is that Matt Ward has actually done a decent job. But of course, I will reserve my final judgement for when I have actually played a game against them. :biggrin:


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

I think you should use a different term, as What you said (edited for clarity) would mean that you _*can't*_ beat them...


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> 3: Every Grey Knight has a fucking Force Weapon and furthermore they have additional rules that essentially say FUCK YOU SUCKA to any unfortunate models hoping to hide behind their eternal warrior rule. Sorry daemon players, you are royally boned.


Unless GKs can get jump packs, winged DPs and GDs will just fly away to safety, while the GKs get skullfucked by Bloodcrushers. Unless of course if GKs have storm shields everywhere, but even then they'll get tarpitted or shot up.

Also, what do you mean by low model count? Generally speaking, or even lower than say SM?


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

You forgot the transports
So they won't be completely bombarded by Guard and tau-Speaking of which-what other army does NOT get bombarded by them 2?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Son of mortarion said:


> I think you should use a different term, as it would mean that you _*can't*_ beat them...


I don`t understand what you mean? 



Khorothis said:


> Unless GKs can get jump packs, winged DPs and GDs will just fly away to safety, while the GKs get skullfucked by Bloodcrushers. Unless of course if GKs have storm shields everywhere, but even then they'll get tarpitted or shot up.
> 
> Also, what do you mean by low model count? Generally speaking, or even lower than say SM?


There`s no "jump packs," however... :wink: 

And by low I mean on par with Deathwing and Loganwing and such. The whole army of seven models rumour and gonna fly. :no:



Vanchet said:


> You forgot the transports
> So they won't be completely bombarded by Guard and tau-Speaking of which-what other army does NOT get bombarded by them 2?


All the LR variants, the magic school bus and the ability to teleport. No drop pod in sight. 

Oh, and do not take what I said to imply that gunline armies will have it easy. I only said you didn`t have to worry about the shrouding... :grin:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I thought Grey Knights were Ordo Malleus, not Xenos?

Force Weapons. Why the fuck is this army built to kill Tyranids? Eternal Warrior in Daemons; Princes, Cavalry, Heralds and Greaters.

Tyranids - everything that's not Gaunt/Stealer based.

From that alone, Mat Ward has fucked up.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Actually, there are extra rules that circumvent EW. Trust me, Daemons are in far deeper shit than nids. :spiteful:


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> There`s no "jump packs," however... :wink:
> 
> And by low I mean on par with Deathwing and Loganwing and such. The whole army of seven models rumour and gonna fly. :no:
> 
> ...


Thats good to hear. Bunny-hopping NFWs wouldn't be funny.

If their model count is that low then they're screwed. Unless of course if every transport has storm shield plating, which is something THAT GUY would do. Or something along the lines of that.

Oh and another thing, whats up with their stats? I'm interested mainly in their WS, I and A, and maybe even Ld (and if they're fearless or ATSKNF) because I'm naive enough to assume that they have S4 T4 W1 base.

And how whats up with the SCs? Is Coteaz's rule still batshit crazy? I heard that he can turn inquisitorial henchmen into troops plus you no longer have to take one inquisitor for each group of henchmen who do not take up any FOC slot, resulting in god knows how many scoring Chimeras with heavy weapons sticking out their fire points. That'd rename the book to Codex: Grey Chimeras.


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

There are a TON of ways to get close to the enemy even on turn one...

- Mordrak plus retinue of cheap ghost terminators + a librarian for the summoning

- Personal teleporters allowing for 30'' jumps first turn

- Fortitude psychic power allowing vehicles to continue moving so suppression fire becomes much less effective

And I'm sure there are things that I have missed. In any case, we can speculate as much as we like but until we finally see them hit the table, let's be cautious about our judgments.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

NO MORE COTEAZ.

Read all about it. Coteaz is not a Grey Knight Special Character, but Karamazov is.




Serpion5 said:


> Actually, there are extra rules that circumvent EW. Trust me, Daemons are in far deeper shit than nids. :spiteful:


Daemon's are shit anyway. Their armies don't consist of Warriors, Tervigon's, Tyrants, or Trygons.


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## Champion Auzias (Apr 30, 2009)

Well, they might not have jump packs, but PAGKs can take Personal teleporters that make them jump inf, in addition to the 30' teleport. Expensive, sure, but the threat is there.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

right so as a daemon player you say im screwed. Well they don't call em daemon hunters for nothing right.

Once I get my hands on this codex give me a week i will find a way to beat them.

Sounds like so far I wanna shoot the crap out of em.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

TheSpore said:


> right so as a daemon player you say im screwed. Well they don't call em daemon hunters for nothing right.
> 
> Once I get my hands on this codex give me a week i will find a way to beat them.
> 
> Sounds like so far I wanna shoot the crap out of em.


I don't think Daemons will be beating Knights very often. I'm not the type to have kneejerk reactions, but I've been looking things over and I really don't see Daemons beating Grey Knights as long as the dice aren't completely awful and the Grey Knight player plays competently. Mostly the reasoning for this is that basically all of the Daemon's strengths are basically useless or near it against Grey Knights.

Deep Striking onto the battlefield gets shut down something fierce by Warp Quake. Most armies will run at least two Grey Knight Strike Squads, so that's an awful lot of the board made a no-go zone for Daemons, as well as shutting down any Chaos Icons in the Quake's radius.

Eternal Warrior is no defence, so a 250+ point Greater Daemon can get slapped down by a squad of Grey Knights without a ton of effort on their part (depending where and how Knights can access Daemonbane anyway).

Grey Knights can easily hide in Rhinos and shoot out of them. Daemons have a rather difficult time dealing with mech of any sort, especially mech that they can't Deep Strike next to and have a hard time shaking or stunning.

Sanctuary is an awesome power against everyone, but will hurt Daemons especially badly since they're entirely on foot (or flying or whatever. Point is, Daemons can't ride in transports so they'll lose a good number of models every turn to Sanctuary with proper positioning).

It's hard to be 100% sure on any of this until we have the Codex in hand, but right now things don't seem good for Daemons. I'm all for the Grey Knights having advantages against Daemons (it just makes sense), but I don't think that these advantages should go so far as to practically make a game a forgone conclusion. Time will tell.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I would tend to agree with Katie, from what i've read so far Daemons will have a really hard time. I'm all for a bit of flavour, Preferred Enemy Daemons and S10 weapons on some unique guys and what not. But having easy and essentially accidental access to daemon-boning powers makes it a tough game. You would never buy an Anti-Daemon upgrade but luckily you don't need to, you just have them on your dudes.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Deep Striking onto the battlefield gets shut down something fierce by Warp Quake. Most armies will run at least two Grey Knight Strike Squads, so that's an awful lot of the board made a no-go zone for Daemons, as well as shutting down any Chaos Icons in the Quake's radius.
> 
> Eternal Warrior is no defence, so a 250+ point Greater Daemon can get slapped down by a squad of Grey Knights without a ton of effort on their part (depending where and how Knights can access Daemonbane anyway).


One question, do stirke squads negate all chaos icons in any army that has them? Because if that's the case it's going to raise some interesting arguments when it comes to Chaos Marine players.
.


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

Vaz said:


> NO MORE COTEAZ.
> 
> Read all about it. Coteaz is not a Grey Knight Special Character, but Karamazov is.


Wait, so is the rule to take warbands as troops not included anywhere under any special character then?


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> You would never buy an Anti-Daemon upgrade but luckily you don't need to, you just have them on your dudes.


Previously GK gave Daemons a free rule as well to balance out their specialist abilities without the need for them to have a point value; has that concept gone now?


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> I don't think Daemons will be beating Knights very often. I'm not the type to have kneejerk reactions, but I've been looking things over and I really don't see Daemons beating Grey Knights as long as the dice aren't completely awful and the Grey Knight player plays competently. Mostly the reasoning for this is that basically all of the Daemon's strengths are basically useless or near it against Grey Knights.
> 
> Deep Striking onto the battlefield gets shut down something fierce by Warp Quake. Most armies will run at least two Grey Knight Strike Squads, so that's an awful lot of the board made a no-go zone for Daemons, as well as shutting down any Chaos Icons in the Quake's radius.
> 
> ...


I see what you mean but im sure there are gonna be ways to counter them with a daemon army. 

As far as I have seen is any codex that seems overbalanced really isnt and with any ting you wanna throw a your opponent then there is always a another way to counter it.


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## Champion Alaric (Feb 17, 2011)

Id have gladly kept all thold stuff with a reduced points cost to bring it more inline with current SM stuff. We always had a low model count anyways so i dont see the problem there. We, thru the GM, could kill demons in one shot too. Coulda just added preferred enemy and kept it the way it was...ima miss WS5 and Str 6 alot.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

TheSpore said:


> I see what you mean but im sure there are gonna be ways to counter them with a daemon army.
> 
> As far as I have seen is any codex that seems overbalanced really isnt and with any ting you wanna throw a your opponent then there is always a another way to counter it.


There might be, absolutely. It'll take time for Daemon players to adjust.

Thing is though, the Grey Knight Codex itself isn't an overpowered book. It just happens to be insanely, insanely good at countering Daemons, which is fine from a fluff perspective but really doesn't lend itself well to the game very well.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

That's sad. It makes perfect sense, but 40k needs less rock-paper-scissors, not more.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Kreuger said:


> That's sad. It makes perfect sense, but 40k needs less rock-paper-scissors, not more.


Well, the one silver lining of it all is that, if it does turn out that the Grey Knights completely counter Daemons and practically eject them from the game (not literally) it won't hurt _too_ many people since very few were interested in Daemon armies in the first place. My soon-to-be 8K points of Daemons won't be happy, but...


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Oh, I'll be ready for them one way or another. We'll see how awesome your anti-demon gear is when you got three broadsides knocking on your front door with two hammerheads entering from the back. 

And I say this because I know there will be at least 3 guys and their grandmothers getting GKs the instant they come out. It happens _everytime_ a new army wearing power armor pops up around here.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

That doesn't seem very equitable to those Daemons players. Hopefully there is still a rule balancing out their Anti-Daemonness. It would be . . .unfortunate to invalidate an army.

As I understand the competitive meta-game, Daemon Armies aren't all that viable. According to the speculation here Grey Knights will be par or worse compared to other marines in how they stack up (once everyone gets used to them). Which suggests they may become an anti-daemon wild card.

Cheers,
Kreuger


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

C'Tan Chimera said:


> Oh, I'll be ready for them one way or another. We'll see how awesome your anti-demon gear is when you got three broadsides knocking on your front door with two hammerheads entering from the back.
> 
> And I say this because I know there will be at least 3 guys and their grandmothers getting GKs the instant they come out. It happens _everytime_ a new army wearing power armor pops up around here.


Can we have a picture of the Grandmas playing GK please.:laugh:

Much as I hate to say it, I think Katie's right. Not that many people play Daemons so the anti-daemon rules won't have that great an effect. However it does seem odd that GW would allow one codex to negate another... Oh wait, it's a Space Marine codex, that explains it.

Still I look forward to smashing them with my Snakebites.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Well all im gonna do is buy the book and find out how counter it. Sure im gonna have to do the nerdy thing and play aginst myself proxing GK using my salamanders but even back when you could still do all that evilness aginst 4th ed CSM when they had daemon specific units they still wern't much to sweat about.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

daemons will only continue to have a hard time without their shields. THE CHAOS SPACE MARINES. how long do you think it will be before they give us the ally option now lol. since it will be pointless to run a daemon army now. i say 4-6 months.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

True that Spore!

I once played a game against a guy who brought 1 unit of Grey knights as allies to his regular marine army. . . . Allowing me to use respawning units of 4th ed Bloodletters. I shot the Grey Knights with plasma guns and bolters, and assaulted the regular marines with overpowered daemons. 

It was a good day for Chaos!


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

The low model count is still there, so I am happy. Very happy. 

Been running a 35 model army for about a year now, and it worked fine, and based on all the news, I believe that it will turn more effective than what it was in the past!

Also, +rep to you Katie.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Poor Spore, Again that Lack of PA feel that comes only with CSMs is being felt more. Hurry up and finnish ur CSMs. 

Seriously heres a BIG question. CSMs do not have the DAEMON rule as per Chaos Daemons and the Avatar of Khain. So doesnt that mean my LDs, GDs, and DPs can continue to shit in their cheerios and laugh!?

Spore hurry up with that LD Damon Spam!


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Yeah, the Chaos Daemons will still be viable. GW wouldn't just add rules that completely ruin an entire army, would they? 

For example, take my Warhammer Fantasy Ogre Kingdoms army.....

*breaks down into tears*


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Yeah ive seen GW nerf make an army overbalanced but never seen them completely render one utterly useless evn the necrons and sisters can still stand a chance.

Remember not one army is trully better than another.


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## goldsmartie (Dec 11, 2009)

I agree its just they way you use them.

also as a side note, what does that psilencer do? the name makes me worried for my psykers, but it looks like a minni gun, and that could bugger the little bugs.


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

TheSpore said:


> Remember not one army is trully better than another.


:laugh:

This could only be true if all armies received an update at the same time when a new edition of the rules was introduced, and even then it wouldn't be true. As it is, this statement is laughable. Given identical skill levels on both sides, all armies are not equal.

Back on topic, I'm looking forward to getting my hands on this codex! Not too surprising that GKs will be a tough opponent for Daemons, but given the lack of Daemons players, I don't think this will be a consideration when deciding to play GKs or not. It's because they want to field a unit of Paladins! :victory:


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

Wow, have to say I'm really looking forward to facing off against a Grey Knight army soon. Less numbers than normal beakies and everyone has force weapons? Perfect! Let's see how well they do against a horde of single wound 6+ save units supported by craploads of overwhelming dakka dakka! :laugh:


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Oh noes!
Coteaz is not a GK hero ...

Newsbreak, pal.

He NEVER WAS a GK.
He was an INQUISITOR in the last one, not a GK.
Prior to this, he didn't exist.

Low model count army?
Yes please. Means I can carry my army on the plane with me IN my carry on luggage, not AS my carry-on.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Grimskul25 said:


> Wow, have to say I'm really looking forward to facing off against a Grey Knight army soon. Less numbers than normal beakies and everyone has force weapons? Perfect! Let's see how well they do against a horde of single wound 6+ save units supported by craploads of overwhelming dakka dakka! :laugh:


Well considering said units can be 10 strong with S5 storm bolters and cheap psycannons, I think they'll do just fine against Orks. Then there are Purifiers...


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## Supersonic Banana (Jul 23, 2010)

sounds like my daemonzilla list is gonna get shat on 

better break out the old bloodletter swarm


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## OrdoMalleus (Apr 24, 2009)

goldsmartie said:


> I agree its just they way you use them.
> 
> also as a side note, what does that psilencer do? the name makes me worried for my psykers, but it looks like a minni gun, and that could bugger the little bugs.


 Heavy 6 Boltgun, not particularly scary unless your a horde army when the number of shots is going to really add up.

I still think the new psycannons look like shite......


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## Akhara'Keth (Nov 20, 2010)

Wait, is Coteaz still in the Codes or not? I am kinda confused atm...


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Well considering said units can be 10 strong with S5 storm bolters and cheap psycannons, I think they'll do just fine against Orks. Then there are Purifiers...


Shoot, I'd forgotten about the Psybolt ammo they could take, good thing I take KFF's and grot screens.  

Purifiers are something I'm going to have to live with, flamers have been a bane of many a horde army (I'm looking at you hellhounds):threaten: .


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## OrdoMalleus (Apr 24, 2009)

Grimskul25 said:


> Purifiers are something I'm going to have to live with, flamers have been a bane of many a horde army (I'm looking at you hellhounds):threaten: .


I dont think there will be too many incinerators around (Fewwww....lol), not with psycannons being so cheap and so much better. I think psilencers may make an appearance due to the number of shots they can put out but I think thatll be more down to personal choice.

No...I think Purifiers casting "Cleansing flame" in CC will be the bane of horde armies....


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Looks like the final nail in the deamons codex as usable in touranaments has been laid. Well GW I think you just officially killed an army that was sub par to begin with....good job. 

Still I bet a swarm of say 100 daemonettes could take a go at a grey knights army (After all they can't kill more then 50 or so before you get to them, and then you will still be striking first with rending).


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I can see a lot of noobs opting to take all halberds on their squads. That will be a mistake. :laugh: 


To explain: 

Halberds give +2 Initiative. Sounds awesome right? 
Yeah, until you have a good read of how the force weapon works for the squad. 

eg: A GK squad of six equipped with TWO halberds charges a unit of six tyranid warriors. 

The halberds naturally strike first. Statistically, they`ll inflice one wound. 

GK player then takes a psychic test for the SQUAD. We assume it passes (despite Shadow in the warp, this is only an example ). 

Only one test is needed, and it has just been passed. From this point onward, ALL REMAINING GK ATTACKS at I4 will automatically count as inflicting ID as per the force weapon rule. :shok: 

Meaning of course, that every wound the squad inflicts from then on means a dead nid warrior. :cray: 

So, whilst halberds sound awesome, remember they are better used in moderation. :wink: 



This is what I meant when I said multi wound models are screwed. Suddenly, the Nob biker list seems a little less scary. :laugh:


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Serpion5 said:


> Stuffs


Naw, it only works for a single wound per phase. Good try though. :laugh:


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## StalkerZero (Oct 3, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> I can see a lot of noobs opting to take all halberds on their squads. That will be a mistake. :laugh:
> 
> 
> To explain:
> ...


I'll admit, you made me pull up every FAQ and my rulebook out because that sounded ridiculously over powered. And it is. But unfortunately I can't see how the rules could be interpreted that way.

GK are already really, really strong with I6 power weapons possible on your squads. Change that to one guy with an I6 power weapon and 9 guys with instant deathing I4 attacks and they would just be stupid.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

So i saw that 'leaked' GK codex a while ago and it looked like most of the units in the codex were essentially normal marines that get boosted with psychic powers. Is that about how the units are? or are there more inherent stat/special rule bonuses?


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

Akhara'Keth said:


> Wait, is Coteaz still in the Codes or not? I am kinda confused atm...


Some dude made what I assume to eb a baseless assertion, considering the codex hasn't actually been released.

I expect everyone's referring to the "playtest" version, which has Coteaz in it.

Also, if all the Draigo fluff makes it into the actual book, I am going to ":/" so hard my mouth will be at a permanent incline.


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

daxxglax said:


> Some dude made what I assume to eb a baseless assertion, considering the codex hasn't actually been released.
> 
> I expect everyone's referring to the "playtest" version, which has Coteaz in it.
> 
> Also, if all the Draigo fluff makes it into the actual book, I am going to ":/" so hard my mouth will be at a permanent incline.


I am afraid to say it is true, if you look at the GW website, it says the very things in the leaked codex on his summary. Why GW? WHYYY??!? 

Not to mention his model looks pretty terribad, ugh.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> eg: A GK squad of six equipped with TWO halberds charges a unit of six tyranid warriors.
> 
> The halberds naturally strike first. Statistically, they`ll inflice one wound.
> 
> ...



This is one of those days where again I can say "Thank God I play Tau where CC is utter shit anyway".


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

daxxglax said:


> Some dude made what I assume to eb a baseless assertion, considering the codex hasn't actually been released.
> 
> I expect everyone's referring to the "playtest" version, which has Coteaz in it.
> 
> Also, if all the Draigo fluff makes it into the actual book, I am going to ":/" so hard my mouth will be at a permanent incline.


It's a 3 Letter name. It's fairly easy to remember.

As to "baseless assertion" go check the Grey Knights section on the GW website.

Perfect model, before, no model after.


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> I can see a lot of noobs opting to take all halberds on their squads. That will be a mistake. :laugh:
> 
> 
> To explain:
> ...


I fully expect this to be FAQ'd at the earliest possible chance. One model giving 9 other models S4 instant death power weapons? OTT in my opinion


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> I can see a lot of noobs opting to take all halberds on their squads. That will be a mistake. :laugh:
> 
> 
> To explain:
> ...


As a person who loves being an utter douche to his group, I am impressed. :laugh: I didn't know you had it in you.


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## Epidemius (Nov 15, 2010)

interesting.

I'd like to see, assuming GK are on par with Daemons, a battle between the two. that'd be amazing.

I think the dreadknight does look kinda weird. why does it say in the fluff it's super hard to kill if the driver's out in the open in a freaking baby pouch?


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

Considering that Grey Knights are ridiculously even more buffed up against daemons (ignore EW special rule for them, Dark Excommunication taking away gifts...) they would almost be certainly massacre the daemons, especially Grey Knights have a Warp Quake ability which screws up the enemies of ability to deepstrike, with daemons this is a serious drawback.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Epidemius said:


> I'd like to see, assuming GK are on par with Daemons, a battle between the two. that'd be amazing.


On par? What does "on par" mean to you? If it means that they are so far above them they(GK) could drop a pebble and it would reach a high enough speed to go through their(daemons) head and out their ass, then yes, they are on par.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Epidemius said:


> interesting.
> 
> I'd like to see, assuming GK are on par with Daemons, a battle between the two. that'd be amazing.


You will, next month's White Dwarf is bound to feature this match-up as the battle report, which should be something of a litmus test as to how viable daemons still are.

Beyond this I can't say I'm happy about a template attack psychic power that can be used in combat. Doesn't mean they're unbeatable though where hordes are concerned. Just send in 40-60 boyz and a Warboss with Big Choppa (surprisingly effective against Marine players) to demolish a squad. 

Anyway, the Dreadknight model does look pretty good. I'll probably get one and loot it up.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

The Sullen One said:


> You will, next month's White Dwarf is bound to feature this match-up as the battle report, which should be something of a litmus test as to how viable daemons still are.


The last time I saw a White Dwarf batrep involving Daemons they had loner Bloodcrushers, Beasts of Nurgle, Daemonettes, Epidemius (in an army that has 2 Nurglite units? lol) and other ridiculous stuff and combos. I can already see Fateweaver getting cut up by a 150-200 point troop in CC.

Or it might be CSM. Hitting with power weapons and earlier than charging Berzerkers and Noise Marines thanks to some retarded wargear will make every GK player feel like a man (not that beating up the even more inferior Daemons would be a challange). And yes, I mad. GW and their metric fuckton of Imperial fanwankery. :angry:

inb4 "Problem Heretic?".


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Khorothis said:


> The last time I saw a White Dwarf batrep involving Daemons they had loner Bloodcrushers, Beasts of Nurgle, Daemonettes, Epidemius (in an army that has 2 Nurglite units? lol) and other ridiculous stuff and combos. I can already see Fateweaver getting cut up by a 150-200 point troop in CC.
> 
> Or it might be CSM. Hitting with power weapons and earlier than charging Berzerkers and Noise Marines thanks to some retarded wargear will make every GK player feel like a man (not that beating up the even more inferior Daemons would be a challange). And yes, I mad. GW and their metric fuckton of Imperial fanwankery. :angry:
> 
> inb4 "Problem Heretic?".


They did get a bit absurd with that Daemons army, but then again it was Alessio Cavatore and he's left the company now, so whoever takes the helm next month may take a somewhat more effective army.

As to the special wargear, it's possible I suppose, but most marines are I5 for HQs and I4 for the marines themselves (CSM included) so I'd be dissapointed if this wasn't the same for GK. One thing is for certain though, Plague Marines are going to lose a bit of their usefulness.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

They still will ignore 50% of GK shooting, which may help if they use them in a possible bat rep. Or they could just go massed berzerkers, but that may actually win so I doubt it.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

I hate to say it but the only thing i LIKE about the grey knight release is all the bitz it gives me to make pre-heresy armor....and the terminators will make good custodes 

*cough*

But on topic i to see the grey knights not as great as everyone thinks, a well played Chaos marine army or blood angel army would rip them a new one due to the fact they would out number for a change and have just as Meany messed up annoying rules!

There is also the Eldar and Dark Eldar.....i see a major opportunity for both to point and laugh at an army that has less troops then them and more special rules but no way to keep up speed wise!


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

Things that got more useful: Crucible of Malediction (if that's spelled right) and Runes of Warding/P'Hoods/Nid Shadow.

I'm only a little peturbed at how good these guys are, but I think Eldar are going to have a fairly normal time with these guys.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

Vaz said:


> It's a 3 Letter name. It's fairly easy to remember.
> 
> As to "baseless assertion" go check the Grey Knights section on the GW website.
> 
> Perfect model, before, no model after.


Mmmm... I'm not drawing any conclusions until I hold the codex in my hands (and subsequently read it)

I mean, nowadays you have a Cypher situation (Model, no rules) or a Daemon Herald situation (Rules, no model)

I'll try to remember your moniker from now on, Rupert.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

I'd only be picking up that codex so I know the best ways to kill them.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

daxxglax said:


> Mmmm... I'm not drawing any conclusions until I hold the codex in my hands (and subsequently read it)
> 
> I mean, nowadays you have a Cypher situation (Model, no rules) or a Daemon Herald situation (Rules, no model)


Why remove the model then? Cypher, IIRC only had chapter approved rules? Check out all the WHF figures (FW, admittedly) that don't have rules.

As to Daemon Herald situation - there never was a Daemon Herald, so it's simply not been developed.

It's not as though the model was ugly - it's beautiful. And even then; removal of it for being ugly is not a requirement; re Rough Riders.


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## Supersonic Banana (Jul 23, 2010)

against GKs the best army list would probably be pure thousand suns for troops some plasma chosen in elites and maybe a defiler or 2.

Actually raptors might be usefull vs these guys.

Wouldnt bother with a DP or special character though as seeing abbadon being shreaded by a troops choice would make me cry :_(
probabaly go for a tzeetch sorc with doombolt and wind of chaos


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Force Weapons. Why the fuck is this army built to kill Tyranids? Eternal Warrior in Daemons; Princes, Cavalry, Heralds and Greaters


It's not 'designed' to kill 'Nids. They've had those weapons since before the first proper Tyranid Codex ever came out. Nids just happen to be vulnerable to them. 

As a 'Nid player, I'm quite looking forwards to seeing how I would fair against a GK army. Especially with hordes of little 1-wound beasties that will outnumber tham about 10-1. :biggrin: 

To be honest, given how most Tyranid armies out there seem to incorporate as many Hive Guard as they possibly can or Zoanthropes, simply shooting the force weapons until they melt and charging the remains with things that don't care is a viable option. Maybe it will encourage folk to use something other than Trygon Spam too...

As for Daemons? I'll see how my little daemon army will hold up after I've read the GK Codex. Yes, they'll be somewhat boned. But again - maybe it will encourage more units of 1-wound daemons rather than the minimum possible (2 troops) then multiple bigger harder daemons. It will in no way 'cancel out' my codex, nor make Daemons any less likely to do as well as they do in tourneys anyway. You find ways to adapt. And GK players were thin on the ground to start with - I can't see them suddenly becoming the most popular army out there when so many other forces can flatten them.

So in all - as someone who plays two of the biggest targets of the GKs - I say Bring It On...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Coteaz is in.

And he's getting a new model - or perhaps a plastic kit for Inquisitors allowing him to be built?


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

> It's not 'designed' to kill 'Nids. They've had those weapons since before the first proper Tyranid Codex ever came out. Nids just happen to be vulnerable to them.


Actually...GK didn't have force weps before (well the regular ones didn't anyway, in fact only a grand master could have a force wep, justicars, terminators and captains just had power weps) A nemsis force wep (in the daemonhunters codex anyway) for a regular GK only gave him 2+ strength.

But if this means that all grey knights have force weps my daemons are screwed :shok:


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## Arm1tage (Feb 10, 2011)

How competitive were the Grey Knights anyway?

And how competitive are they now (guesstimate)?


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## OrdoMalleus (Apr 24, 2009)

Arm1tage said:


> How competitive were the Grey Knights anyway?


Terrible.

Well 1v1 they were awesome. Everyman WS5 and Str.6? tough nuts.

Against a whole army of them? They were terrible. Overpriced, no mobility and no anti-tank.



Arm1tage said:


> And how competitive are they now (guesstimate)?


Better 

-Reduced points cost
-VERY anti-daemons/chaos/pyskers (as it should be)
-Better anti-tank
-More mobile
-Hard as nails units
-Still a Very low model count


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Arm1tage said:


> How competitive were the Grey Knights anyway?


Depends on the player, I could play the well, and I have actually managed to wipe out an ork army off the table once. But no other players seem to be faring well with them, crappy tactics is what I say. :aggressive:



Arm1tage said:


> And how competitive are they now (guesstimate)?


Even more.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Arm1tage said:


> How competitive were the Grey Knights anyway?


They were fucking atrocious. Like tau fighting rolled in a chaos codex rolled in ork ballistic skill.



Arm1tage said:


> And how competitive are they now (guesstimate)?


Slightly better. Will need to see them on the table.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Karak The Unfaithful said:


> Actually...GK didn't have force weps before (well the regular ones didn't anyway, in fact only a grand master could have a force wep, justicars, terminators and captains just had power weps) A nemsis force wep (in the daemonhunters codex anyway) for a regular GK only gave him 2+ strength.
> 
> But if this means that all grey knights have force weps my daemons are screwed :shok:


What I'm saying is that GKs had Nemesis Force Weapons as their weapons since waaaaay back in 2nd Ed, possibly before but that was before my time. It's only recent editions that have added new rules for the 'force' bit. :wink:


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Doelago said:


> Depends on the player, I could play the well, and I have actually managed to wipe out an ork army off the table once. But no other players seem to be faring well with them, crappy tactics is what I say. :aggressive:


I'm going to go with unskilled opponents, no offence intended.

As for Grey Knights level of competitiveness, it'll take a couple months for people to churn out the really killer army lists. By then it'll be easier to say with a degree of certainty. In the meantime, I'd say that the Knights will have the potential to be more powerful than armies like Orks, Daemons, Eldar (perhaps), Necrons and so on but probably not quite as deadly as say Guard, Wolves or Tau (yes, Tau. Get over it).


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Never understood why people don't rate Tau. They're probably the filthiest army out there, even after all the SW/BA/IG bullshit.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Never understood why people don't rate Tau. They're probably the filthiest army out there, even after all the SW/BA/IG bullshit.


Explain, please. They have a single good build, if that is what you are referring to, but that hardly makes for a good codex.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Explain, please. They have a single good build, if that is what you are referring to, but that hardly makes for a good codex.


I am not the person to properly exaplain this, more KD or Vaz's forte, but from my understanding, the codex is "bad" but when somone can use it properly it becomes in theory, near the top of the top tier.

Obviously this leads to the whole "anyone's army is pro when they can use it" But that isn't exactly true. 

Even if you can play your army well, many still have obvious pitfalls and failings, Tau however seem to avoid that, when built and played to the fullest extent of their abilities.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Simple tau army sucks, but has units/builds that are great for exploits that will drive your enemy to a humiliating defeat (often causing incredible frustration.) However lets not get to far off topic.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> Simple tau army sucks, but has units/builds that are great for exploits that will drive your enemy to a humiliating defeat (often causing incredible frustration.) However lets not get to far off topic.


Many armies are capable of this, the top two especially. At most I would put Tau mid tier. However, you are right; back on topic.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Army = / = Codex. Chaos Codex is shit. Armies are good. Space Marine Codex is good. Armies are... Pooish. Dark Eldar have Good Codex, Armies are mixed.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Army = / = Codex. Chaos Codex is shit. Armies are good. Space Marine Codex is good. Armies are... Pooish. Dark Eldar have Good Codex, Armies are mixed.


That depends entirely on your perspective. I don't rate codices on anything other than the armies they produce. IOW, if an army is good it will produce a wide variety of effective builds, if not then it is a poor codex. However, if you would like to talk about this there is a thread about tiers on the nid section where this might be at home. I am responsible for far to many off topic slides to continue this here.


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## Blackyujiro (Mar 9, 2009)

Damn it!! I just started my Daemon army. WTF, GW?? Did GKs REALLY NEED to be any better against Daemons? So now, I have to take pretty much max troops in an attempt to overwhelm these guys, and not be butt raped. Oh, I can keep my Greater Daemons. Yay(sarcasm). Seriously, after reading thru the 'Dex at my LGS today, one would have to be a monkey with Down Syndrome not to be able to beat Daemons with almost any build of this army I could think of. 

Against other armies, GKs will do fine. Even with small numbers, if you go "pure" GK. They have enough new tricks to get by. You take Coteaz, and run henchmen as Troops....O MY FRIGGIN GOD!! The possibilities are ridiculous. 

I'm calling GW and cursing someone out. I'd like a refund on all this Daemon stuff I've bought(I know it won't happen, but I'll feel better). Maybe I'll just defile th gK codex, and use their rules to run a CSM army dedicated to Malal.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> As a person who loves being an utter douche to his group, I am impressed. :laugh: I didn't know you had it in you.


I like to unleash the inner troll once in a while. Knew it wouldn`t work, but still fun. :laugh: 



C'Tan Chimera said:


> I'd only be picking up that codex so I know the best ways to kill them.


I own almost every Imperial codex for this exact reason. :spiteful: 



Vaz said:


> Army = / = Codex. Chaos Codex is shit. Armies are good. Space Marine Codex is good. Armies are... Pooish. Dark Eldar have Good Codex, Armies are mixed.


Agree completely. I can build a few competitive builds with a necron list and win quite comfortably against the average game in my area. 

Same can be said of Grey Knights. They have a good codex sure, but so do Blood Angels and Dark Eldar and my necrons have seen the deaths of both. I am confident that GK won`t present any problems, at least not lasting ones.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Really I think the idea of gray knights being exceptional against daemons is nice, bu really is a dated concept in game. To elaborate it wasn't a huge detriment to any existing army because very few things where daemons, and those were elective units. However now that they are a entire army the entire codex seems like a relic from a begone age, and in effect kills the fledgling daemon codex in its first edition.

I mean its not a situation of comparing it to a none mech army vs a army with little AT, its a example of one army have a definitive edge over 1 specific army while still holding its own.

To point out how stupid this is I will apply the same logic to a popular army. Say in the next eldar codex (Which for the sake of fairness we for the sake of argument will put in mid tier). Now a good player can make said army work, but along comes a marine player of vastly higher skill. Now the new eldar codex has a new rule saying all loyalist marines have to reroll armor saves reducing their save rate by a large margin. All of a sudden this inferior player has a noticeable edge over his opponent not countered by points costs or special rules in favor of the opponent. 

As you can see such a change can ruin a armies metagame damning a entire army to friendly games in fear of wasting time and or money in tournaments just to be run out of the competition by someone playing a army you tactically can't counter. (Tournament armies, and power gamers account for a huge amount of sales)

Hence if all what has been said about the GK codex is true I expect sales of the daemons codex, and interest in it to drop noticeably in the 40k community possibly placing in even worse standings then the DE codex was before its revamp. 

In closing....really GW was anyone complaining about 40k daemons being over powered? Did you not think that these changes may actually end up killing the army in competitive play, hence driving interest so low that daemons will become a fringe army that may one day be discontinued (Or possibly having to be reabsorbed into the csm dex.)

Side note: Take into account that any sever deficits between these two armies won't be addressed for 2-3 years now so expect daemons armies to dry up over that period, even more so then what is typical after a army has been eclipsed by 3-4 new codexes. On a side note daemon player may become the new DE/Necron gamers bitterly supporting the out modded army like crazed hillbillies protecting their still to the day when GW remember that they buggered/ignored them to long and throws them a bone.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> ...daemon player may become the new DE/Necron gamers bitterly supporting the out modded army like crazed hillbillies protecting their still to the day when GW remember that they buggered/ignored them to long and throws them a bone.


Superb, almost Lovecraftian, images are conjured up.


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## Arm1tage (Feb 10, 2011)

Blackyujiro said:


> Damn it!! I just started my Daemon army. WTF, GW?? Did GKs REALLY NEED to be any better against Daemons? So now, I have to take pretty much max troops in an attempt to overwhelm these guys, and not be butt raped. Oh, I can keep my Greater Daemons. Yay(sarcasm). Seriously, after reading thru the 'Dex at my LGS today, one would have to be a monkey with Down Syndrome not to be able to beat Daemons with almost any build of this army I could think of.
> 
> Against other armies, GKs will do fine. Even with small numbers, if you go "pure" GK. They have enough new tricks to get by. You take Coteaz, and run henchmen as Troops....O MY FRIGGIN GOD!! The possibilities are ridiculous.
> 
> I'm calling GW and cursing someone out. I'd like a refund on all this Daemon stuff I've bought(I know it won't happen, but I'll feel better). Maybe I'll just defile th gK codex, and use their rules to run a CSM army dedicated to Malal.


How many games do you even think you'll play against GK? Both armies have a single digit percentage of total GW armies.

Besides, as anti Daemon specialists, if they weren't much good against daemons what use would they be?

(not that I have a stake in this as a Necron player, you're all meatbags for harvesting anyway)


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Arm1tage said:


> How many games do you even think you'll play against GK? Both armies have a single digit percentage of total GW armies.
> 
> Besides, as anti Daemon specialists, if they weren't much good against daemons what use would they be?


For the next few months, Grey Knights will likely be very, very popular. Which means that if your main army is Daemons you'll be doing an awful lot of sadfacing.

It's fine that the Knights have advantages against Daemons. It just isn't fine when it goes to the point of making one army almost redundant. There's no evidence to support that this is the cast yet though, so no need to completely freak out until everyone's played a few games.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

LukeValantine said:


> On a side note daemon player may become the new DE/Necron gamers bitterly supporting the out modded army like crazed hillbillies protecting their still to the day when GW remember that they buggered/ignored them to long and throws them a bone.


Hey, I'm not a crazed hillbilly... I think. :wasntme:


But yeah, really it's true. Did GW just make Demons *Yeah, I know it's daemons but let's face it, demons. Maybe I am lending evidence to the whole hillbilly thing now but whatever* just so the Grey Knights would have something to feel special against?

I've never cared for Demons- they were pretty horrendous already, so I can only imagine how horrifyingly worthless they will be against GK. Poor bastards.


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## Arm1tage (Feb 10, 2011)

I thought Demons were good (with a bit of luck on the DS rolls)?

Bah, who cares anyway. Daemon players will just have to change tactics and play better, against a single army, for a while. Necrons and Dark Eldar (before revamp)had to do that against everyone and for a pretty long time. 

Of course if you're piling shit on top of GW for not updating and FAQing the game every so often for increased balance and enjoyment for the rest of us who aren't SM, then I completely agree with you, shovel in hand and all.


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## Blackyujiro (Mar 9, 2009)

I can honestly see a lot of players running GK once they drop. If not for the GK themselves, then for the Inquisitor portion of the army, which is quite nasty also. In my local gaming circle, power armor is king(unfortunately), followed closely by IG and DE. We have a lot of competitive gamers, who run the "codex of the month", which I really have no issue with. But, when you have an army that specializes in countering another army, become "super" against said army and potentially very good against the rest, being a player of the army they "specialize" against is really jacked up.

I would feel better if GW hadn't neutered Chaos in general over the years, to the point where neither CSM or Daemons feel like they are the antagonists of the 40k universe anymore. But fat chance of that happening I suppose.

But, I have come up with my personal solution. Since my main codex, which isn't that powerful to begin with, has been taken down another notch. I have decided to wage my war against everyone, by using the Grey Knights codex to build my Chaos/Imperium hating Sons of Malice army.

And now, the Sons of Malice battlecry, ".............................................."


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## ufoturtle081 (Feb 10, 2011)

Blackyujiro said:


> I can honestly see a lot of players running GK once they drop. If not for the GK themselves, then for the Inquisitor portion of the army, which is quite nasty also. In my local gaming circle, power armor is king(unfortunately), followed closely by IG and DE. We have a lot of competitive gamers, who run the "codex of the month", which I really have no issue with. But, when you have an army that specializes in countering another army, become "super" against said army and potentially very good against the rest, being a player of the army they "specialize" against is really jacked up.
> 
> I would feel better if GW hadn't neutered Chaos in general over the years, to the point where neither CSM or Daemons feel like they are the antagonists of the 40k universe anymore. But fat chance of that happening I suppose.
> 
> ...


This sounds like a fantastic idea! I have always hated how the SM's get some of the best rules, and I hate the idea of having an army that looks like everyone elses.

I love the Tyranid models but I am just not a fan of the rules, I know it would be reaching pretty far to use a blood angel codex for tyranids, but it could be done. Carnifexs could stand in as Dreadnoughts, Gargoyles as Jump marines, Spores as drop pods, Tervigons as Rhinos and razorbacks, Ravaners as Bikes, and Warriors as Terminators. It is decided: my new project!

You must post some pics when you new army gets underway.


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## turel2 (Mar 2, 2009)

Epidemius said:


> I think the dreadknight does look kinda weird. why does it say in the fluff it's super hard to kill if the driver's out in the open in a freaking baby pouch?


Quoted for signature. 100% truth.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

So far I am pretty excited about the book. Just trying to figure out how to mix in all my old Grey Knights with the new stuff. Not sure if I should just pay the points for halberds or cut everything.

Anyways just noticed this unpainted picture of the dreadknight on the gw website.










And it all of sudden doesn't look as bad as the painted one. Could a helmeted head and a more subtle paint job be all that is needed to make this model look better. That doesn't mean the open cockpit doesn't looks stupid, and if I get one I am armouring up the front, but still slightly better.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Stick a dreadnought sarcophagus to the front. Ridiculous pilot situation solved.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

> Stick a dreadnought sarcophagus to the front. Ridiculous pilot situation solved.


That might be a bit too much for me. I am planning on building plates in three separate pieces, two separate pieces one that covers each leg and a piece that covers the whole upper body, maybe having be some kind of lift ups over the head, kind of a like an over the shoulder harness.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Stick a dreadnought sarcophagus to the front. Ridiculous pilot situation solved.


pilot situation solved
still looking like shit not solved


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> pilot situation solved
> still looking like shit not solved


Nothing can fix that.
I also don't understand why it needs hands. Wouldn't it just be easier to have the weapons as the arms?

It's literally the most ridiculous model I've ever seen.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Stick a dreadnought sarcophagus to the front. Ridiculous pilot situation solved.


It would run down to its knees..... unless we want to cut Mr. Pilot off at the hips.


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## 13713 (Jan 26, 2011)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Nothing can fix that.
> I also don't understand why it needs hands. Wouldn't it just be easier to have the weapons as the arms?
> 
> It's literally the most ridiculous model I've ever seen.


It needs hands to choke baddies and throw their bodies across the field. After battle I can see serious keg moving potential for ultimate party mobility.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

> I also don't understand why it needs hands


So it can pick up fuzzy Jokaeros on its free time and stroke them like ktty cats...duh


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## MrPete (Mar 5, 2011)

I wonder if the GKs will end up being a bit of a jack of all trades, master of one army ie. decent - good against other armies, brilliant against daemons. I can see Tyranids having problems with them, but I honestly can't see, for example, Ork hordes having too much to fear, what with the low model count and all. 

I wonder also if the codex has other SM chapters crying themselves to sleep because they're now neither good enough to be Ultramarines nor pure enough to be Daemonhunters.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Tyranids....problems with GK's, tell that to the 10 or so GK terminators that will evaporate to torrents of living ammo. True MC's are buggered, but genestealers ect are still a good counter. Hell its like deathwing vs Tyranids they will be outnumbered 10-1 at times. Now orks will have a far larger problem do to not having the spamable ranged fire, or things that strike first.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Epidemius said:


> I think the dreadknight does look kinda weird. why does it say in the fluff it's super hard to kill if the driver's out in the open in a freaking baby pouch?


Probably because it's a Space Marine at the controls. After all the normal rules don't apply to these guys. Come the next Marine codex they'll be some fluff about how the Mentors were so unperturbed by their enemy that they stopped fighting and started lecturing the enemy on what they were doing wrong (cue picture of Space Marine pointing to an anatomical drawing of a Space Marine, before showing some Orks how best to kill him).



ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Nothing can fix that.
> I also don't understand why it needs hands. Wouldn't it just be easier to have the weapons as the arms?
> 
> It's literally the most ridiculous model I've ever seen.


It's so Ork players can loot them in a blatant (and probably successful) attempt to shift more in GK sales.



LukeValantine said:


> Tyranids....problems with GK's, tell that to the 10 or so GK terminators that will evaporate to torrents of living ammo. True MC's are buggered, but genestealers ect are still a good counter. Hell its like deathwing vs Tyranids they will be outnumbered 10-1 at times. Now orks will have a far larger problem do to not having the spamable ranged fire, or things that strike first.


When you've got enough boyz on the table, lacking ranged units isn't an issue.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Nothing can fix that.
> I also don't understand why it needs hands. Wouldn't it just be easier to have the weapons as the arms?
> 
> It's literally the most ridiculous model I've ever seen.


and how would it get back up after being knocked down?


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Son of mortarion said:


> and how would it get back up after being knocked down?


Would it be able to? Against both Orks and Nids I can see that pilot getting butchered once his craft has fallen to the ground.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

The Sullen One said:


> Would it be able to? Against both Orks and Nids I can see that pilot getting butchered once his craft has fallen to the ground.


Well, yeah. But supposing he just gets knocked over by a rokkit or trips over a rock or something?


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> Well, yeah. But supposing he just gets knocked over by a rokkit or trips over a rock or something?


Depends, if he falls backward, he's xenos-food, if he falls forward, he'll get squashed.:laugh:


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> ...supposing he just gets knocked over by a rokkit or trips over a rock or something?


It is the Emperors finest, so will not trip, or perform other embarrassing clutz-ups.


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## uber (Feb 28, 2011)

for all the window dressing a dreadknight is just a gayer version of a dreadnought. i'll take a fully enclosed sarcophagus over a open mech-suit.

i guess they were a little too influenced by the matrix and aliens.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

So in a universe where mankind hates eevreything chaos and xenos why the hell does the GK have monkey people fighting with them. Excuse me I mean monkey oblits. 

I'm sorry i just think that this a stupid stupid idea...


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

TheSpore said:


> So in a universe where mankind hates eevreything chaos and xenos why the hell does the GK have monkey people fighting with them. Excuse me I mean monkey oblits.
> 
> I'm sorry i just think that this a stupid stupid idea...


I could have forgiven them if the models had been half decent, but they look like shit.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

I might have been able to forgive if it wasn't for the diregard of fluff adding these guys to the army. They look like something an 8 year old would create almost as bad as the old expansion title cities of death

Whats next Cat People...


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

The return of the Jokaero is pretty strange. They were around in rogue trader, and are basically the Moties from _The Mote in God's Eye_, only made to look like orangutans. 

Even then they didn't really do much. They largely existed in the fluff as an explanation for crazy wargear like "digital lasers". They never appeared in 2nd edition at all. Only vaguely as making wargear.

@TheSpore - It's doubly strange because not only are they an alien race being employed by the most xenophobic of xenophobes, inquisitors, but the background for them has been retconned. 

Previously, the Jokaero couldn't be communicated with or controlled. They were like MacGuyver-aliens, capable of making anything out of anything ". . . need to turn a rubber band and a paper clip into a conversion beamer? . . gimme a moment . . . " 

But they couldn't be communicated with, didn't trade with any other species, didn't survive in captivity - if in fact you could kept them locked up, typically they would just invent some way to escape imprisonment.

. . . And now they're Inqui-bilators.

*Shrug*
Kreuger

p.s. - Hmm, so next codex = James Cameron + Matt ward?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

The Inquisition is willing to go to extreme lengths to combat the Daemon. Realize that Chaos is viewed as the biggest threat by the Imperium (even though others are arguably more dangerous), so it isn't all that difficult to believe that the Imperium would take advantage of help from a relatively harmless xenos species like the Jokaero. The Grey Knights already use a lot of stuff that are clearly the artifice of xenos. Just one example is the psilencer.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

I agree. It's the same reason you can take Daemonhosts, really.

Then again, their models just look _ridiculous._ I think I'm just gonna keep converting my own henchmen, thanks very much.

Though the Jokaero do open up interesting possibilities. Consider this: a Radical Inquisitor of the Ordo Sepulturum has taken an interest in the properties of the the Obliterator virus, believing it can be a powerful tool for the Imperium. He infects and experiments on several test subjects, beginning their descent into Obliteratorhood. Why not the Jokaero rules to represent such a thing?


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Don't forget folks, Radical Inquisitors will use the Witch / Alien / Daemon to fight the Witch / Alien / Daemon... The Radical / Puritan sides of things have been established for some time now.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Kreuger said:


> p.s. - Hmm, so next codex = James Cameron + Matt ward?


Tyranids = James Cameron + Matt Ward

Ok ok i see most people's thoughts on this. It is highly believeable but the reason I have issues with it is 
1 The model sux
2 it just seems too uncreative IMO

I will put out that I got into 40k back when 3rd frist came out so the earliest game i've played was 2nd. So I will admit that I had no true idea what the jokero are. So thanx krueger for clarifing that.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Personally I see the inclusion as both a bit weird, and a sign that many of the cool things from previous editions/fluff will enter the game. There is the thunderfire cannon, which acts like the thudd gun, the vortex grenade in apocalypse, the ymgarl genestealers, the clawed fiends and razorwings from the dark eldar book, and now the jokaero. i hope that GW puts in more cool things from the games past.


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

If GW going retro with units from the past, I'm hoping they give back us Orkz some of our old gear and units back like Madboyz or the Buzzer Squig option for a Lobba.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Grimskul25 said:


> If GW going retro with units from the past, I'm hoping they give back us Orkz some of our old gear and units back like Madboyz or the Buzzer Squig option for a Lobba.


Well the shock attack gun was from an older version right and you guys can have weird boyz now(correct me if im wrong).

If they are gonna start gettin retro maybe we will see genstealer cults and zoats make a return one day. One thing i never got was why don't they do something with the Hrud and the Umbra. They are in the fluff and there have been many well fluff documented battles about them.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Supposedly a new race is coming to 40k in future. Maybe Hrud? They seem enough of a threat. 

Barghesi are also a possibility. :dunno:


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Supposedly a new race is coming to 40k in future. Maybe Hrud? They seem enough of a threat.
> 
> Barghesi are also a possibility. :dunno:


A new race is cool in all but they really need to just finish working on the rest of the armies. We've seen how much they trully favor the newest race in the game just waiting make it the last xenos codex for 5th. There really is no need for a new army there are still too much that needs to be done first.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

TheSpore said:


> A new race is cool in all but they really need to just finish working on the rest of the armies. We've seen how much they trully favor the newest race in the game just waiting make it the last xenos codex for 5th. There really is no need for a new army there are still too much that needs to be done first.


I completely agree, I would like to see tau and necrons revamped first, but I was just saying what I`ve heard. :dunno: 

I really have no timeframe for it.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> I completely agree, I would like to see tau and necrons revamped first, but I was just saying what I`ve heard. :dunno:
> 
> I really have no timeframe for it.


Isn't there a rumor regarding the demiurge? That would seem to mean both a new race and a tau update. Personaly i want my chaos to have a fix to the dex, but for now I will content myself with being better able to empathise with them.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> For the next few months, Grey Knights will likely be very, very popular. Which means that if your main army is Daemons you'll be doing an awful lot of sadfacing.


And then return to a state of averagely-played, as a new codex attracts all the ex-Daemonhunters magpie players or they decide to go back to their Space Wolves, meaning that I can buy some cheap GK on eBay to 'supervise' my Dark Angels. It's a win-win situation: some people get cheap Warhammer, and all the little kids who want Grey Knights 'Because they're all shiny! They sparkle liek Twilight!!11!' will lose their parents money and will never have a finished army to try and fight me with. Ok, not win-win, just double win for me.

The new race will be Squats, and they will be designated as the Ordo Canine, or Wolfhunters, and will be specifically designed to beat Space Wolves, such as anti-Missile Launcher armour and Thunderklaxons to frighten the Thunderwolves. And against any army containing any form of wolf they get a free Ordinatus Armageddon.

Midnight

EDIT:
Ahhh... Didn't quite notice the date on this thread... ah well, what's two weeks compared to the massive amount but ever shortening amount of time we have alive?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Fucking evil, that's what it is. Thread Necromancy is heinous.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Death to the necromancer!


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

It's not really Necromancy, it's only two weeks old. Doesn't even qualify as a corpse at that age, barely time to have a proper funeral either.

Midnight


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