# Let's have fun with GK (leaked codex)



## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

So I'm sure we've all at least heard of the leaked playtest GK codex that has been circulating throughout the internet. Whether you've seen it or not I figured it would be good to begin a thread using said codex to design some early lists. *Hopefully it goes without saying to not post point values/requests/links to the aforementioned codex*. Also, I understand we have the rumor/news thread but I thought this one was differentiated enough to deserve it's own topic; We also won't have to dig through 300+ pages.

So after having been shown it, I feel the competitive list I'll be fielding will definitely be taking advantage of the henchmen warband, but not entirely excluding the GK aspect. My current planned list based off the leaked point values uses Coteaz, troops filled with one jokaero + acolytes w/ meltaguns / plasmas in chimaeras, a vindicare (he's just too awesome!), and some purifiers in stormravens as my hammer. I have about 500 points to make it up to 2500 that I'm still not sure where to place; it's definitely going to be divided between the HS and HQ slot, but that all depends on what some of the unknown wargear does (for the inquisitors for example). I'll post a more detailed list if that's allowed (mods?), but if not than maybe we can all put our heads together to extrapolate how the GK will look in a competitive environment.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

I've managed to hound down a copy and am scrolling through it now! The psychic powers appear to be good. Warp Rift Can be useful against the right enemy, Mind of a Titan I foresee as having some great CC applications, The Summoning is... interesting, Vortex of Doom seems to unwieldy and unstable, Smite is mediocre (Basically an enhanced Doombolt), Quiksilver could be handy (though GK's already have I4 and Frag grenades...), and Sanctuary seems ok. 

Skimming the statline for the Grandmaster... BS 6? Really? Grand Strategy seems useful, especially since it's used before the game begins, though it is somewhat random, all the results look good. 

Also, looks like psycannons are now gone, but there are several kickass psychic HQ choices. I like the way Hammerhand has been changed, as well as its availability to Terminators. Warpquake is interesting, and I definitely see i having strategic value, but only if you know your opponent is Deepstriking that turn, and you still have to pass your psychic test!

Nemesis Dreadknights... could you ask for a cooler name? Waht's interesting is that these guys aren't Dreadnoughts per se, but rather, monstrous creatures. Of course, regular and Venerable Dreadnoughts are in this list too.

And now we come to the Inquisition. This isn't just Codex: Grey Knights, it's Codex: Inquisition. The Ordo Xenos finally gets some recognition, and depending on which Ordo your chosen inquisitor belongs to, you get a different set of options. The Henchmen are back, now including new kinds, as well as old faces like Archo-Flagellants. 
Archo-Flagellants: 

Crusaders: The same. I can't get over the fact that they cost the same as an Arco-Flagellant and a Death-Cult assassin, though.

Banishers: Essentially just priests from Codex Daemonhunters, though now they get eviscerators as standard.

Jokaero Weaponsmith: Now here's somethign we've definitely not seen before. Of course, I'm not referring only to the terrible, terrible statline (Rivalled only by that of the Gretchin) they can, however, improve your henchmens' weapons. Unfortunately, several of these upgrades don't appear to be incredibly fantastic, though you may as well take him along...

Mystic: Different than those in Codex Daemonhunters, instead of disrupting enemy deepstrikers, they serve as a homing beacon for your own.

Daemonhost: nerfed. That's all I can say. That once-impressive statline has been gutted. The random powers are still there, but these too have been cut down severely.

Death Cult Assassin: Basically the same, except they can no longer infiltrate.

Servitors: About the same. They get servo-arms now which is nice, but can also take plasma cannon, heavy bolters, etc.

Psyker: Well, um... they can shoot... a power that isn't very effective unless you want to take at least 4 of them

Warrior: Basically the same. Lots of weapon options.

Overall, I'm impressed with the amount of variety they've churned out of the once-bland Grey Knights. They're still as expensive as ever, but with many more tricks up their armored sleeves. I'm not quite sure how I feel about the handling of the Inquisition, though.


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

Ya two of the things I kind of want to include in my list are either a libby or CC dedicated warband in a LR. I would want the libby because there are so many fantastic GK psychic powers. Since there are so many good ones I'll just say the ones that look subpar (just compared to the others) are smite and vortex as the others just excel so much in improving CC and/or defense.

The second thing I was thinking of including was a large warband of CC dedicated henchmen. I would likely include an even mix of crusaders and assassins with one or two banishers thrown in for their eviscerator. I kind of like the idea of throwing the whole lot in a land raider as well so they can assault out of it. I'm not sure how effective it would be but there would be a ton of power weapon attacks that's for sure.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

I agree with you there; I'd also like to include an Arco-Flagellant. They're much more practical (and controllable) now. 

Looking at the assassins, I'm pleased to see that they all get Fleet and Move Through Cover. But I can't tell if they have WS8 and BS8 or WS3 and BS3 due to the blurry print. The Culexus Assassin still fills its anti-psyker niche. I like how your Eversor Assassin doesn't have the chance of randomly blowing up, and his gun is now poisoned! The Vindicaire loses his Stealth Mask, but all his other attributes remain. Interestingly, his "shield breaker" ammo, which would previously ignore invulnerable saves, now does no damage at all, but actually _removes_ the targets invulnerable save for the rest of the game. I see gret tactical applications for this. The Callidus Assassin no longer has "A Word in Your Ear," which is unfortunate, but she is still the optimal choice of the 4. In addition, her C'Tan Phase sword doesn't ignore ignore all saves anymore; it's a power weapon that causes instant death. 

This is still clearly a Grey Knights-dominated codex, and I'm a little disappointed I won't be able to field a radical Inquisition army


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Hey, I haven't seen it myself.

I'm just wondering, as a Chaos Daemon player, if there is anything specifically designed to deal with my army.

Thanks.


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

Ya D-A-C there is a ton of anti-daemon stuff. From what I know here is what you have to worry about.

- Army wide rule Preferred Enemy against Daemons

- Strike Squads (regular PA GK) have a psychic power that makes you auto mishap if you deep strike within 12'' of them.

- Some of the special characters have some abilites that are more geared toward Daemons like Stern's zone of banishment (ALL units within 6'' take a str test and if failed are removed as casualties BUT Daemons must reroll a successful save). 

- The GK grandmaster Draigo has a force sword that's str 10 against psykers/daemons

- There is also the Daemonbane rule on some weapons and such but I don't know what that does. Presumably something against Daemons though...

- Inq Coteaz is now the only one with the old GK mystic ability to auto fire at whatever deep strikes near him.

I've also recently taken a look over at DakkaDakka to see how their GK threads are going and my god it is hilarious. There are so many people whining and moaning about the end of days that the GK codex will bring. Just as every other codex has been whined over for it's seemingly game ending rules; so too will this codex be whined over I guess.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

One thing I do like is how the GK still retain usefulness against psykers and daemons, without being stuck in that niche, unlike the old Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters

Also it does indeed appear that the assassins are all now BS8 and WS8. And they've all had about a 25% points reduction.


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## godzy (Jun 5, 2008)

Eversor got the bad end of the deal- lightning claw instead of +4 wound power weapon. he still has 5-10 attacks when charging, but shorter charge range- only fleet, instead of the 12" charge. 

eight psykers are cheap for a 36" S10 AP1 large blast. get the "that special someone" next to them, and a 12" s5 ap1 assault 18 body guard appears.


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## ItsPug (Apr 5, 2009)

Hmmm... scout 30" move (with no scatter)+ 6 inch move + two incinerators and 8 stormbolters + charging... fun! well for me anyway


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Perfect for my chapte master and his elite guard, wonder how a GH would looks wolfified? We will see.


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## Blueberrypop (Apr 27, 2010)

I see that there A LOT of +2 save up in here.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

Took a second glance at the Jokaero and holy dang these guys are like mini-Obliterators.

Except with terrible stats.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Vindicare has been upgraded with his reusable uber-ammo, but downgraded severely in that he is no longer the Sniper supreme he was in Codex: Daemon Hunters.

The Assassin can pick his target when he fires at an enemy unit not the owning player, but previously the only rules the Vindicare had to follow was LOS and Range otherwise anything was game.
Firing into combat? Vindicare could do that. Killing you own troops? He could do that too.

I'm psyched that he can conceivably help mince anything he aims at (e.g take away Abaddon's invulnerable save before a unit of Paladins or pair of Dreadknights charges in sounds like a plan) but I wanted the best sniper in the Imperium not Telion with worse armour and a better gun.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

daxxglax said:


> This is still clearly a Grey Knights-dominated codex, and I'm a little disappointed I won't be able to field a radical Inquisition army


You absolutely can. There's very little that you can't do with the new book that you could do with the old one (inducted and allied troops notwithstanding). Off the top of my head a Radical Inquisition army could do something like this:

HQ

Radical Inquisitor counts-as Coteaz

Maybe another Inquisitor depending on preferences.

Troops

At least two units of Henchmen. You can make them basically whatever you want. Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, Daemonhosts, Arco-Flagellents counting-as whatever insanity you can come up with.

Chimeras

Elites

Techmarine, maybe counting as a Tech Priest or something.

Fast Attack

Stormraven can fairly represent something like a Valkyrie or Vendetta with the proper weapon loadouts.

Heavy Support

Inquisitorial Land Raiders

Dreadnoughts could count as modified Armored Sentinels or something.

Dreadknights could be some sort of nighmarish Daemon-possessed Penitent Engine-like machine.

That's a lot of choice.



D-A-C said:


> Hey, I haven't seen it myself.
> 
> I'm just wondering, as a Chaos Daemon player, if there is anything specifically designed to deal with my army.
> 
> Thanks.


lol, oh god yes.

The one that hasn't been mentioned yet is Stern - you want to stay the fuck away from that guy with your Lesser Daemons, trust me.

Another nail hammered into the coffin of the Chaos Daemons Codex.



godzy said:


> Eversor got the bad end of the deal- lightning claw instead of +4 wound power weapon. he still has 5-10 attacks when charging, but shorter charge range- only fleet, instead of the 12" charge.


Eversor benefited, I think. Not in all areas, but is probably better off in the end. He has a Lightning Claw which is better against softer targets, has lots of Attacks that allow him to cut through large units and tougher targets alike, is Fleet and has Furious Charge so he can hit very hard and fast. He doesn't blow up anymore, but he's still a fine choice.



> eight psykers are cheap for a 36" S10 AP1 large blast. get the "that special someone" next to them, and a 12" s5 ap1 assault 18 body guard appears.


They are, but then the Pyskers have no Leadership to speak of so will often fail their psychic tests or be foiled by a psychic hood. Runes of Warding or a normal Perils of the Warp would completely screw the unit. And by screw, I mean kill.

Oh and btw, the Pyskers don't have the Psyker rule. So... they don't actually help out the Culexus Assassin. 



daxxglax said:


> Took a second glance at the Jokaero and holy dang these guys are like mini-Obliterators.
> 
> Except with terrible stats.


Yeah and since they're not Relentless most of their weapon options aren't really useful.



Baron Spikey said:


> Vindicare has been upgraded with his reusable uber-ammo, but downgraded severely in that he is no longer the Sniper supreme he was in Codex: Daemon Hunters.
> 
> The Assassin can pick his target when he fires at an enemy unit not the owning player, but previously the only rules the Vindicare had to follow was LOS and Range otherwise anything was game.
> Firing into combat? Vindicare could do that. Killing you own troops? He could do that too.
> ...


He's still better overall. Doesn't need an Inquisitor, doesn't run out of special ammunition. Shooting into combat or at your own troops was sort of gimmicky anyway (though perfectly legal) and wasn't useful all that often in most cases. Mostly because if you were playing Daemonhunters you were getting run over no matter what you took. Won't be a problem with this new book, though.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Silly question then...


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## ItsPug (Apr 5, 2009)

No, its against forum rules. but if you were to search for it with say google...


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

ItsPug said:


> No, its against forum rules. but if you were to search for it with say google...


Yeha, I should really try and aquant myself with them again


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

So I've thrown together something I'm liking a ton and will probably take as my competitive list in the future. Based on the rumored point costs this list strikes in at 2445 currently and the remaining points I'm saving to maybe go into wargear I don't know about yet.

It's basically
-Coteaz
-6x Henchmen Warbands w/ 1 Jokaero + 4 acolytes w/ plasma/melta in a chimaera
-1 vindicare
-2 10 man purifier squads with 4 incinerators and halberds in stormravens
-2 dreadknights with personal teleporters.

My only real preference in making this was to include at least one stormraven and I think it looks fairly nasty. It has a decent amount of anti-tank and anti-elite infantry and hordes are easily handled by the purifiers. The dreadknights act as solely big distractions that will use the 30" move first turn to be right in my opponents face hopefully allowing me to move the stormravens a little more safely. What do you all think?

I also have a 2500 list utilizing mordrak w/ 10 ghost knights, a couple of vindicares, 4 teleporter strike squads and 3 purgation squads with psycannons. It's an all foot list that's meant to be fairly fast and in your face.

By the way, is it true that strike squads with personal teleporters count as FA because I did not see that anywhere and I made this list assuming they are still troops.


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## godzy (Jun 5, 2008)

Darn it Katie, you are correct. I usually double check these sort of things. 

New Idea- 20 points for a plasma cannon? three for 60? yes please. The Jokaero are too expensive for a lascannon, so plasma acolytes for dirt cheap please. sure they have crap BS and save if it gets hot, but its so cheap you wouldn't mind. henchmen are going to be the ultimate vet-listers unit.


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

Those are the plasma cannon servitors right? I personally don't like the idea of having to waste an HQ choice on an inquisitor to watch over them. Having to choose between the aforementioned wasted HQ slot and mindlock makes them a subpar choice for me.

One of the things I am liking a lot however is the possibility of taking up to FIVE conversion beamers on BS 4 models.


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## CursedUNTILLDEATH (Apr 25, 2010)

Hey, question, if I play against GK, am i allowed to have lesser demon packs like the older codex allowed? That would be great fun, having some blood letters in with my Orks.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

It doesn't look like there's anything like that available this time. Of course, the Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters Codices actually had to go out of there way to go out of their way to give the enemy psyker/demon choices just so they'd have the excuse to fight them.

Drew up a quick Inquisitorial Army List here (prospective, since a lot of the weapons don't have their rules included in the leaked 'Dex):

HQ:
Inquisitor Coteaz

Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor:
-Inferno Pistol
-Thunder Hammer
-Servo-skull
-Hammerhand

Elites: 
Vindicare Assassin

Techmarine

Troops:
Henchman Warband 1:
-Death Cult Assassin x2
-Arco-Flagellant x2
-Daemonhost x2
-Crusader x2
-Warrior Acolyte
-Powerfist
-Power Armor
-Rhino
-Extra Armor

Henchman Warband 2:
-Jokaero Weaponsmith x2
-Warrior Henchmen x3
-Storm Bolter x2
-Plasma Gun
-Servitors x2
-Multi-Melta
-Plasma Cannon
-Chimera
-Heavy Bolter
-Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support:
Nemesis Dreadknight:
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy Psycannon

Nemesis Dreadknight:
-Heavy Incinerator
-Gatling Psilencer
-Nemesis Greatsword

Grand Total: 1223


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Did you not read the first fucking post?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

CursedUNTILLDEATH said:


> Hey, question, if I play against GK, am i allowed to have lesser demon packs like the older codex allowed? That would be great fun, having some blood letters in with my Orks.


No. None of that sort of stuff is around. No Allies or Inducted troops, no Adversaries, no army-specific missions. It's 5th edition design philosophy - focus on the army itself, not the superfluous stuff.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Did you not read the first fucking post?


If you're talking to me, then I assure you I did. If you're perturbed my use of points in the list, I didn't put itemized points cost, though I'm not entirely certain of where your contention is stemming from.

If a mod were to tell me to remove the points cost/the list entirely, well then alright.


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

We should still probably avoid using point values of any kind. Just post what point level army it is and show what you would bring, we will just assume you aren't lying about point value costs.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

daxxglax said:


> If you're talking to me, then I assure you I did. If you're perturbed my use of points in the list, I didn't put itemized points cost, though I'm not entirely certain of where your contention is stemming from.
> 
> If a mod were to tell me to remove the points cost/the list entirely, well then alright.


Oh, no no. I simply forgot the quote the one that I was talking about and forogt to reload the page. Sorry for the confusion.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

Oh- my mistake!


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

So do you all believe they'll be the metagame changers this edition desperately needs? Deep striking followed by psychic shooting powers at high strength is great, and army-wide force weapons will ace musical wounds and tervigons. This all spells fantastic for me.

Also anyone think grey knights will be viable if they costed, oh say, 20 points? Would you pay that many for a grey knight and consider them competitive?
That Nemesis Dreadknight is _hypothetically_ fucking diesel. Especially with the _hypothetical_ statline and _hypothetical_ way to make it count as scoring.

I really want to run elite units of alpha legion as grey-knights 'counts as'. Using overly modified possessed bits on chaos marines to represent the comparative chaos equivalent of a bad ass super psyker marine grey knight. Think that'll incite too much rage? Oh and the henchmen are definitely cultists.

God this is exciting. Especially if it does something to that tournament metagame of

IG
IG
SPACE WOLVES
IG
ORKS
SPACE WOLVES


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

Short answer: no

Long answer: I really don't think it will shake up the tournament scene that much despite having some very nice units. IG will still be able to lay down withering amounts of fire if you aren't deepstriking and even then be ready to have a mess of heavy flamers/rapid firing plasma in your face. SW, BA, and IG I believe will still be at the top for a while. I'm seeing the codex as being more like the DE; they will be powerful in the right hands but definitely won't be over the top.

That said, there will be a lot of very viable and competitive lists to field. Those who are looking to run super elite paladin units I think will be more out of luck however as my initial take of the codex is that you will have to balance out the different choices to make an optimal list. I'm personally thinking a mixture of IG warbands, strike squads, assassins (namely vindicare), purifiers, dreadknights, and purgation squads will be the make up of many top lists, although I'm really wanting to throw a couple stormravens in my list filled with purifiers. The HQ choice is also jam packed with great choices. A lot of the specials look strong such as Mordrak, Crowe, and Coteaz while the generic HQs are good too like the grand master, librarian and the super low point inquisitors.

Also, anyone notice that you can take up to FIVE conversion beamers if you wanted to? I made a list that includes four + one vindicare and some strike squads in a 1000 point list and it looks like soooo much fun.


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## Refyougee (Nov 24, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> God this is exciting. Especially if it does something to that tournament metagame of
> 
> IG
> IG
> ...


lol in what universe do you exist where orks are anything but bottom feeders?

on topic im really liking the librarian as a swiss army knife type of character - by spending just a handful of points on him you can kit him out to be effective against a huge range of lists and tactics.

personally im liking the shrouding, may help give your smoking/flat out vehicles the extra little boost to their survivability they need. will also definitely help with footslogging GK lists. if only we had the profile on that psycannon...

the summoning is also really interesting, what with the ability to summon disposable plasma/melta warbands from across the board. attach your libby to something with a locator beacon (or inside a raven that has one) and you're very accurately calling in extra firepower.

also first turn bumrush lists look to be even dirtier with the inclusion of warping dread knights, the summoning and mordrak's cheaper ghost termies when combined with stormravens and junk


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Refyougee said:


> lol in what universe do you exist where orks are anything but bottom feeders?


A universe where despite RAW saying otherwise, orks get deffrollas that work on vehicles.

Also a universe where dark angels(Pre the faq), templar, necron, and tau all exist.

And as of this writing, SoB and Daemonhunters are also much worse.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

LordWaffles said:


> A universe where despite RAW saying otherwise, orks get deffrollas that work on vehicles.


You mean like the Ork FAQ says it does?



> Also a universe where dark angels(Pre the faq), templar, necron, and tau all exist.


Well Dark Angels and Templars have gotten far, far better with their updates. Necrons are terribad and will continue to be until they get a new book, Tau are awesome.



> And as of this writing, SoB and Daemonhunters are also much worse.


Agreed, though the Daemonhunters will stop sucking very soon. All of this is making Orks look kinda bad.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Tau are awesome.


 Tau are ok. IF they were awesome they could be used effectively with multiple builds and be easy to pick up and use well by most users, but they aren't so they are ok.


Oh, about making orks look bad..... it is difficult to make shit look worse than it already does.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

gen.ahab said:


> Tau are ok. IF they were awesome they could be used effectively with multiple builds and be easy to pick up and use well by most users, but they aren't so they are ok.


I should say that Tau have one awesome build. My mistake.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

> And as of this writing, SoB and Daemonhunters are also much worse.


How are Sob so bad. They aren't a beginners army, but in the hands of a good player who knows how to use faith points they can be godly.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

Did anyone else notice that they gave frag and krak grenades to terminators? That doesn't seem right

All in all, they definitely don't look as over powered as a lot of the rumors were making them out to be. Hopefully they will have some sort of resistance to psychic hoods and other defenses because a lot of the inherent abilities of the old dex are now psychic powers. They just become expensive marines if all their powers continually get blocked.


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