# Winston & Strawn LLP to represent Chapterhouse Studios LLC vs Games Workshop



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Chapterhouse posted this on Dakka. 

My only thinking why they didn't post it here is the pro GW fanboyism and negativity shown towards them in any threads on the subject here.



> My company, Chapterhouse Studios LLC, has been very fortunate to locate pro-bono council with the help and tips of a few of our customers. Those customers have intensive legal background as well as leads that helped us find a firm that believes in our case enough to support us.
> 
> Thanks to some friends good advice and experience we have a legal agreement for Winston & Strawn LLP - http://winstonandstrawn.com/ to represent us in our case.
> 
> ...


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Or it could be because most of us agreed with Gw and the fact he was ripping off stuff =/ All in all doesn't mater how good a lawyer is...they will take your money even if they think you will lose and not say anything. Cash talks after all, Plus chapter house charged more then gw for the same parts....thus.....im waiting to see the legal hammer come down and close them.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

The legal hammer is going to close them because they charge more?

Good thinking! :scratchhead:


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Jezlad said:


> The legal hammer is going to close them because they charge more?
> 
> Good thinking! :scratchhead:


Hey jez charging more then Gw is a crime in its self~


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

You have to admire Chapterhouse's optimism, he's still convinced that by getting pro bono council (which as far as i understand it means your too poor to afford legal services) that he has a case and that hes justified, Pro bono legal council is in essence a service lawyers provide to show them in a good light with the public, its like Tesco supporting race for life or other business latching on to charities.Its a nice statement by chapterhouse but probono lawyers are never going to give a case 100% commitment and having free legal council does not translate into you have or won the case, it just means it more likely to get to court, i still stand by the fact if it was ok to simply copy peoples designs and IP, then we would have had loads of companies doing so within the same market, do you think Hasbro would allow GW to start producing Star wars figures?


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## Count_the_Seven (May 19, 2010)

Pro Bono means they'll do it for free.

As to whether they have found hostility on Heresy or not, it's hardly been the entire membership against them so it would be a shame if they've decided to run away after finding contrary views to their own. They may also have been advised not to post here after theie comments made in the earlier thread and the possible impact on the case following on from them.

Bottom line is the case will go to court and we'll all just have to wait and see what the judgement is (if it even gets that far).

EDIT: Bits n Kits said it better...


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

From what I understand, they generally give pro-bono work to the new lawyers at a firm to give them legal experience of trying to put together a case when they know they'll loose. 

Its just sad that chapterhouse has been given obviously bad legal advice here...

Plus... I don't think they're a good company... I looked up their london office address... Its one of those 'rent a PO Box to make yourself look more upmarket' affairs. That... and as for their 'awards'... they're these 'honourable mention' type 'awards'.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against Chapterhouse personally, but what they were doing was without a doubt in the wrong. They deserve to be brought to justice. I also think the court case will be interesting as it will give insight into how these things go down.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

It's a tricky one.

But maybe GW would have to spend less on Lawyers if they actaully produced the parts that Companies like 'Chapterhouse' (who see oppotunities to make sales) make.

End of the line, I want to see how this turns out. But as Jezlad said, the pro-GW fanboyism on this site means we'll have to find out via Dakka or something.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

Orochi said:


> It's a tricky one.
> 
> But maybe GW would have to spend less on Lawyers if they actaully produced the parts that Companies like 'Chapterhouse' (who see oppotunities to make sales) make.
> 
> End of the line, I want to see how this turns out. But as Jezlad said, the pro-GW fanboyism on this site means we'll have to find out via Dakka or something.


I wouldn't call it GW fanboyism. Regardless as to whether they were filling hole that GW hadn't filled or not. What Chapterhouse studios did is break GW's copyright and against the law. Just because they were trying to help the community doesn't make them any less at fault.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

It will all come out in the wash. Its always a bit of a grey area and I suspect in will depend a lot on the judge.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Orochi said:


> It's a tricky one.
> 
> But maybe GW would have to spend less on Lawyers if they actaully produced the parts that Companies like 'Chapterhouse' (who see oppotunities to make sales) make.
> 
> End of the line, I want to see how this turns out. But as Jezlad said, the pro-GW fanboyism on this site means we'll have to find out via Dakka or something.


Maybe if companies like chapterhouse didnt try to fill gaps in other companies range by using there IP and copyright without permission, GW wouldnt need to pay lawyers to take them to task and that money could be invested in expanding the range of minis to fill the gaps. (see how that works)

As for Fanboyism, this is a 40k forum plain and simple, you can name it what you like,but the vast majority of traffic on this site is 40k based, so its unrealistic to think that the members here would be anything other than fans of there hobby(even stella is a fan deep down). Plus whats wrong with being Pro anything? we have threads on this forum right now mocking the anti GW sentiments of other forums like Warseer. 
Why should we be anti GW because they dont make a particular Bit for a very obscure fluff of a very rare army?
Why is it that we have to be Pro chapterhouse because they seemingly are shoving it to a big company? 

Maximini have just put out some very obvious imperial guard torso, which look awesome, they are neat, well sculpted,could even be better than the ones on the cadian sprue in my opinion, they are far better than anything chapter house has put out, they will sell very well and they didnt risk the wrath of GW Legal , scribor do the same,bitspudlo and numerous others filling in obvious gaps in the GW range or adding to the range of things to make armies unique and the difference between all of these and chapterhouse, chapter house is in court pro bono where as the other indies are not because they had the sense to not use IP to flog there products.

Remember they are not getting a trip to court because they were filling gaps in the GW range, they are going to court because of how they market the products they produce.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

The point is though, as has been mentioned before... Scribor, Maxmini etc etc, marketed their bits as 'commando torso' or 'Cyborg bodies' making them generic replacement and customization bits. Everyone knows they're the same scale and meant to be used with GW parts, but they're not sold as such.

Chapterhouse however was selling their parts as Salamander shoulder pads, Dark Angel robes, Black Templar Swords etc... blatent copyright and IP theft, saying they are those parts to be used as such... not generic parts that could be used as such. 

If they'd done as other companies and marketed them as generic bits... no-one would give a crap. Its the fact they were trying to sell none GW parts with GW labels that's got them in the crapper here.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

GrizBe said:


> Scibor, Maxmini etc etc, marketed their bits as 'commando torso' or 'Cyborg bodies' making them generic replacement and customization bits. Everyone knows they're the same scale and meant to be used with GW parts, but they're not sold as such.
> 
> Chapterhouse however was selling their parts as Salamander shoulder pads, Dark Angel robes, Black Templar Swords etc...blatant copyright and IP theft, saying they are those parts to be used as such...not generic parts that could be used as such.
> 
> If they'd done as other companies and marketed them as generic bits...no-one would give a crap. Its the fact they were trying to sell non-GW parts with GW labels that's got them in the crapper here.


This is the crux of the whole issue, right here. Using another company's trademarked names and terminology is just asking for the very kind of action GW have brought against Chapterhouse; saying that isn't any kind of 'fanboyism', at all, it's just a bare statement of fact.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Svartmetall said:


> This is the crux of the whole issue, right here. Using another company's trademarked names and terminology is just asking for the very kind of action GW have brought against Chapterhouse; saying that isn't any kind of 'fanboyism', at all, it's just a bare statement of fact.


It's not just asking for it, GW have literally no choice but to take action against violators. Thus is the way IP and Trademarks work.


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## Eleven (Nov 6, 2008)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> I wouldn't call it GW fanboyism. Regardless as to whether they were filling hole that GW hadn't filled or not. What Chapterhouse studios did is break GW's copyright and against the law. Just because they were trying to help the community doesn't make them any less at fault.


I think they broke the law, too. I just don't really care all that much.

I didn't read the article, but it seems possible that by getting legal council they can get gws to eat a big shlong and not sue as it would be a waste of money.

Personally, I wish there were more places that created the bits that GWS doesn't make to fill in the holes. They just need to do it more discretely so they don't get boned by lawsuits.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

I do agree with you Bitsandkits in that's it's a two way arguement.
As for the Fanboyism comment, I'm just in the mind set that people should be a little more accepting of different/foreign Ideas.

In this situation however, Chapterhouse are indeed in the wrong for using GW "Terminology" (by copyright).


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

This issue is that Chapterhouse swayed into the grey area of whats ok to sell like maxmini and what is infringement. They could have easily avoided this entire deal by removing the references to the GW game.

The law firm doing the work pro-bono could mean several things. They think they are going to win and want to get their name out there. Think they can win and counter sue for damages, or as others have said above. It does not mean they suck or they know they are going to lose. Hell one of them might have played 40k in the past and knows why the guy has no cash .

All being said, what I did not like was the owner of Chapterhouse over t he top arrogant attitude that I have seen on EVERY post he has made, like how dare you say my stuff isn't the best. I had been considering ordering shoulder pads but after that I will just make due with decals or make my own. He isn't the only person who knowns how to mold.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Chapterhouse is run by idiots.


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## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

Hmm, well according to their website Winston and Strawn encourages their attorneys to commit to 35 hours of pro-bono work every year. Probably some lawyers looking for experience in intellectual property law. Their taking the case probably has little to do with Chapterhouse's actual legal chances. 

Nobody likes to lose though, so I suspect they'll strongly encourage Villacci to settle out of court on more favorable terms. The conversation will probably go something like "You have no chance, you will lose in court, so you can either settle to pay a fine and stop selling this way, or lose your business and never work in the industry again".


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Yeah.. as I thought... they're defiantely giving the 'newer recruits' experience with this one if thats how they run their business.


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