# Help with SM against Orks.?



## lazyminipainter21 (Aug 24, 2012)

what are some good tactics for space marines to use against orks? i keep losing to my friend's massive ork army and not to mention his massive horde of boyz, just wondering! i have 2 tactical squads,1 terminator squad, 1 scout squad, 1 scout sniper squad, 1 assault squad, 1 dreadnought, 1 combat squad, and a rhino soon to be built, any ideas of what combinations or tactics that would work well with my army against orks or other armies?

Also how can i use a thunderfire cannon? (i just got one today) like where would i find the rules? well, i have heard that the rulebook has all the specifics and stuff, but is there anything else i should know?


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## *Chaos_Ate_My_Fingers* (Sep 11, 2009)

Flamers, Flamers, Flamers ... more Flamers and pie plate for orks!

The codex does'nt really explain how to use the thunderfire cannon, all the vechiles updates are in the new rulebook.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

thunderfire cannon is found in codex space marines (aka the vanilla codex).

stay out of CC, shoot them as much as possible and thin out those hordes since they have t-shirt saves (6+) you will almost always deny armor saves (so they will rely on cover or simply go away).

honestly more long range firepower and as many shots as you can pull off is the most simple and easiest way to help yourself.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

try and get a whirlwind, use your rhino as counts-as


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Important 6th ed tip against Orks DO NOT ASSAULT THEM !!! LOL
Overwatch is brutal from ork hordes.

But what the guys all say, pie plates and flamers in abundance. 
Try and have your units stick together or at least be mutually supporting. 
Try to use terrain to get them to come at you one at a time if you can.


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## Routine (Sep 25, 2011)

I play Grey Knights, so the tactics should be fairly similar. It sounds like the Ork Player you play against brings alot of models to the table, so if your games use standard deployment, then you should give him the first turn when possible. This will allow you to set up your army in a way that benefits you. Namely, you set up so that your models/firepower is concentrated heavily on one side of his army. If his units are footsloggers, which is what it sounds like, then you should be able to tear them up one by one.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

A refused flank strategy as outlined by Routine could be helpful if your opponent takes a lot of units without transports. Because of the size of his army he will have to spread out. You can in turn deploy only in one side of the table.

Using your long ranged advantage and distance you should we able to weaken his units sufficiently to counter attack with your assaults units. Because of your set up you should hopefully only be engaging his army piecemeal. 

In terms of equipment you want high volume of shots weapons, template and blast weapons and vehicles, which orks struggle to take out. 

Some have said don't engage the orks in close combat but it's likely that you will need to at some point. Also if you find one of your units is going to get charged next turn and there's nothing you can do always charge the orks. Doing so deny's the orks the charge and hence denies them their charge bonus's. Why give your enemy something for free?

The rules for the thunderfire cannon are found in the the Space Marine Codex. Artillery has new rues this edition however so you'll want to check the new rulebook for that. You'll also want to check the latest FAQ for Space Marines (google gw faqs or erratas) for rules clarifications and to see what's changed with 6th edition.

Finally make sure you're playing the game properly. Are you using even points values? Are you deploying armies and playing the missions correctly? Is the board set up right with enough terrain. If you're doing any of the above wrong it's no wonder you're always losing. If not then persevere, practice always makes perfect.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Sternguard are a godsend with their ammo (hellfire, kraken and dragonfire are all useful here), especially with combi flamers.
A note on close combat: unless you have plenty of flamers for overwatch, always assault ork units before they assault you. Not only do you deny them the bonus attack and furious charge, but you can challenge the Nob, and hopefully kill him so they're more likely to fail morale checks.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

I don't get why if your going to be assaulted anyway why you'd add 60 Overwatch shots to your butt hurt.

If you want to avoid the extra attack from an Ork charge make sure your guys are in Difficult terrain. 

Furious Charge is a bugger but you can certainly give the Ork player some difficult choices by placing you units on a narrow frontage and close together. This means you reduce the number of boys that are engaged and by not allowing the charged unit to be enveloped. It also means that if he wants to multi-assault then he loses the Furious Charge.

+1 to Sternguard they are awesome with combi-flamers. In theory 10 flamer attacks means 30 potential hits. OK it's a one off but you will make a big hole in the Ork boy squad.


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

LRR, RAS squads with flamers, devestators with MLs, basically area damage.


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## lazyminipainter21 (Aug 24, 2012)

ty everyone! all the info was great! also i recently heard that my friend (the ork player) is using the 6th edition rules and will be using chaos space marines with his orks as their ally on the field, he recently pre-ordered the new DARK VENGEANCE starter set, and will probably be scheming to wipe me off the field in even more scary ways, but space marines can also hav an ally, but which other army would work well? eldar? necrons? or something else? our 'gaming group' as i call it hasnt really formed yet since our other friends havent completed their army's yet, but i hav almost finished painting mine, since i actually got time to sit down and paint more thankfully........but another question i hav is about librarians, not the ones at desks in real libraries, but the ones in armor that can mess with the minds of others and open vortexes of doom to suck up the enemy as they scream for mercy, could i take more than 1? my plan for the librarians would sort of be top secret, but if i could take more than 1 and give them all the 'vortex of doom' psyker power, couldnt i let them sit comfortably in some cover and open vortexes on my pals orks or chaos marines and, at the same time, shoot them down and blow them up with my marines on the side making it rain with their boltguns, flamers, and more? also, my question b4 on what army would be a good ally for space marines, any ideas? ty!


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## lazyminipainter21 (Aug 24, 2012)

and yes, my friend who plays orks and now also chaos, always brings a very large horde of boyz at least 35 or however many, and when i told him about the thunderfire cannon and its ability to take out orks by mass numbers, he just laughed.... but once i get my army ready.... he will be sorry!:threaten: but yeah, any ideas for my last question? thanks everyone! all ur info was GREAT!


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Magpie_Oz said:


> Important 6th ed tip against Orks DO NOT ASSAULT THEM !!! LOL
> Overwatch is brutal from ork hordes.


Erm... that's stupid. Either you charge them and they get to shoot you with Overwatch, or they get to shoot a normal round of shooting and then charge you, effectively giving you -1 attack, them +1 attack and +1 Strength. Always, always charge if you can.

http://www.3plusplus.net/2010/12/tactics-destroyed-by-horde-what-do-i-do.html

This should help you out, but in truth there are as many different Ork armies as Ork players. I'm sorry to break this to you, but 35 isn't a large horde. It's barely one squad. A horde is over 100 Orks, and can often stretch to 180.

With regard to Librarians, yes you can take 4 if you want. I wouldn't, because 2 is more than sufficient, let alone 4, and for the price of a Str 10 AP 1 Blast that needs a Psychic Test and will kill you if you fail, you can get a Str 10 AP 2 Large Blast that has AV13 instead of T4, 3+ armour. Yes, that's a Vindicator.

Best powers for a Librarian, incidentally, vary whether you're Power Armoured, Terminator Armoured, or on a Bike. The only unchanging power is Null Zone. It's awesome. It's almost a requirement. If you're in Power Armour, The Avenger or Force Dome are usually good picks - personally I prefer Avenger, but to each their own. In Terminator Armour or on a Bike, Vortex of Doom is probably the best secondary. Gate of Infinity has potential, as does Might of Ancients if you're going to be in combat a lot (Terminator Librarian with Storm Shield in a unit of Assault Terminators, par exemple). The only real no-goes are Machine Curse and Smite. They're never worth taking, ever.

Midnight


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## lazyminipainter21 (Aug 24, 2012)

was my last post shown?


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## lazyminipainter21 (Aug 24, 2012)

ty midnight sun,4 librarians would b quite fun, also what army would be good as an ally for space marines? eldar? necrons? i saw that orks were on the list, and i hav unpainted ork models from the assault on black reach set, but would they even be beneficial? like use them (orks) to rush into my pal's orks then maybe do something with my space marines?i could assault from behind with my assault squad right? just curious, ty!


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

As Marines are pretty well rounded at just about everything, they don't have much of a need for Allies. That said, they are an elite force, so an allied detachment with plenty of bodies would be a good bet - this basically means blob Guard, unless you want your Ork allies to sit around for a turn coz they got a little suspicious of your beaky boys.


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## lazyminipainter21 (Aug 24, 2012)

beaky boys? would orks be good for a blob guard or eldar? necrons? just checking, but yeah,i agree, space marines are very skilled in ranged weapons and close combat but i was also thinking of using the orks or eldar or whatever as decoy troops to throw at the enemy while i prepare my marines in a tactical formation behind them and after my decoy troops retreat or die off i can bring in my marines to fight off the rest of the enemy, wouldnt that work or be possible? maybe use my rhino to rush troops to the other side of the field, like maybe my snipers? so then i could hav something to confuse or corner th enemy? just checking, ty for the info!


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## shaggy (Jul 9, 2009)

Castle up in a corner and make him come to you. Use frag missiles and heavy bolters as much as possible. Make him go through narrow passages between terrain or take difficult terrain tests. Finally, whatever path is open near you gets a rhino sideways to cork the gap. Best case scenario, he charges the rhino and wrecks it leaving it there as terrain. He will be stumbling over his own models to get close to you while you blast whatever is closest and out of terrain. 

If you want to be extra tricky, deploy like usual but leave one of your flanks empty. Place your devastators in the corner. First turn, evacuate the center to reinforce your "castle". If your opponent doesnt see it coming, he may deploy in a wide front. The units nearest your empty flank will be hard pressed to see combat by the end of the game. 

Oh, one more thought. This army works best as a cohesive wave. Use your assualt marines as bait to pull units off from the main thrust and deep strike your termies behind them to make them turn around. Whatever you can do to lessen the front of the wave as it crashes on you is worth it.


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## lazyminipainter21 (Aug 24, 2012)

that would be awesome! ty! so just clump everything in a corner of the board, and then bait him, but also use the devastators (when i get some), to blow them up? or also bait them? or just let them sit there, shoot and then get killed? hmmmmm....., ty though!


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## lazyminipainter21 (Aug 24, 2012)

also, why dont eldar farseers or warlocks or any eldar psyker hav a save value? like a 3+ or whatever? i could also, use psykers to pin an enemy squad or troop in a select area of the board then blast them to smithereens right? sounds like a good way to deal with orks or a weaker army right?


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## the_barwn (Jul 23, 2011)

lazyminipainter21 said:


> also, why dont eldar farseers or warlocks or any eldar psyker hav a save value? like a 3+ or whatever? i could also, use psykers to pin an enemy squad or troop in a select area of the board then blast them to smithereens right? sounds like a good way to deal with orks or a weaker army right?


They do have saving throws, they have rune armour giving 4+ invunerable saves....

compared to SM they are glass hammers though, the eldar


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## lazyminipainter21 (Aug 24, 2012)

i c......... i recently bought a box of cadian shock troops, NOT to go with my marines, but to possibly start a small side army of imperial guard, but......the bad news is, my ork pal got his dark vengeance set the other day and the ork plane, which he said is the best ork unit for orks, but im assuming space marines could easily take it down with a rocket launcher or thunderfire cannon right? his chaos/ork army will no doubt be fruitful for him, but any tips for sm against orks and chaos? like any special tactic, or weapon formation?


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## lazyminipainter21 (Aug 24, 2012)

well, more like a way of dealing with both armies on the field at the same time when i just hav my marines


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## lazyminipainter21 (Aug 24, 2012)

or do both armies hav to hav an ally when playing like that on the field?


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