# 6th Ed. Predator vs Vindicator



## UltraTacSgt (Jul 22, 2012)

Predator - versatility with magnetization, better ranged firepower to sit back and make enemies shoot AV13, good anti armor/MC/high toughness with decent enough anti infantry backup. Not mind blowing in firepower output. 

Vindicator - st10 ap2 large blast, psychological warfare, high target priority, has to get close so will expose side armor and likely not last past turn 2-4. 

In 6th edition, which would you take (or which would you be more worried to face two of) in a C:SM list.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

IN my experience vs SM I have found the Predator to be consistently a bigger threat than the Vindicator. The big V usually gets one spectacular hit, if they are lucky, and then dies soon after.

Preads seem to just keep shooting.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

I agree with Magpie. Even playing BA and having fast Vindicators hasn't made me include them in my list. The times I have used an autocannon/las sponson predator have all been pretty great. I usually couple it with a sniper scout squad or a tactical squad (depending on game size) to hand back and guard my flank while still maintaining range.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Predator:

Didn't really see too much change going into 6th. Obviously Hull Points are something, but only really if horde units can get into CC with you - not many weapons are going to be glancing AV13 that regularly (though side armour is another matter against Tau for example). The high RoF from the Auto/Bolter setup gives you a decent chance of crippling more fragile fliers/FMCs, so is useful in that respect too. AP2 lascannons are a plus for tank hunting, while you're also less likely to die thanks to the new Damage chart. Therefore, extra armour is possibly worth it due to increased chance of Stuns on penetrating hits - more so for transports rather than preds though.

Vindicator:

Again, not too many changes. Hull Points is more of an issue here as the Vindie has to get close to fire, so is more likely to be charged (though random charge distances could work more favourably here). AP2 and changes to Ordnance Blasts makes it viable at taking out vehicle squadrons (new Dark Angels?, Killa Kanz, War Walkers). Also, cover save reductions mean it's more effective on the whole against entrenched infantry. 

On the whole I would go with a pair of preds 9 times out of 10, simply because they're far more flexible and less fragile. Plus with the advent of fliers, having that extra dakka around really counts.


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## TomG (Oct 11, 2010)

I agree with the above.
Vindicator is only best at mid range where it almost has to be on top of the enemy to get a chance of blowing them away. This is a real disadvantage compared to the Predator which has longer range and also more weaponry.

Another disadvantage is that you need to buy yourself another gun on the Vindicator to better the odds of the main weapon not being destroyed.

From what I've seen autocannons are becoming a big trend this edition along with plasma. Both of these vehicles can pretty much shrug off these shots with their front armor. 
However, as the vindicator has to move in closer to get a decent chance of targetting the enemy, this leaves it vulnerable to meltas and a flank hit on their not so tough side armor. Meanwhile the Predator can just sit back from deployment firing away.

Two predators with lascannons and autocannon would definitely be my bet!

Hope this helps


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## Jam123456 (Feb 9, 2012)

i play Eldar and daemons and i would rather have to face down a pred than a vindicator. 

Vindicators are just mean anti inf and now with the blast rules only clipping a tank and you get S10 ap2 hit. thats bl**dy good. 

Perhaps the people i play are naturally better at rolling scatter i dont know but they always seem to do more damage and are my bigger threat. hence i target them before the pred 9 times out of 10. 

I would run both in your list if you have the points. but if not start with the pred and then put in the vindicator when you get the extra points as the only downside to the vindicator is if you have a bad day on the dice and the twin linked pred weapons can compensate more for this.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Jam123456 said:


> the twin linked pred weapons can compensate more for this


To keep it close to the same points, the predator is 20 points less without any twin linked weapons...though the Autocannon is heavy 2, which I'd rather have over twin linked JUST for the chance of having two S7 hits instead of one S9 hit. That's the potential for 4 vehicle busting shots over the one you could possibly get on a vehicle with a Vindicator.

Taking it against hordes (so HB over LC sponsons), it's only 100 points and can deal out up to 8 deaths without the chance of scatter (likely going to be 3+ then 2+, so good chances). That would save you 55 points on the Vindicator, just over half of a second horde oriented predator in your list.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

For chaos the daka pred is probably a better buy as it can take a combi bolter, soul blaze, and a havoc launcher, and is cheaper then the loyalist version.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Except he's looking for Codex: Space Marine stuff, if I read the OP correctly.

Your point is quite valid otherwise.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

It depends on what holes you need to fill in your army, and what the rest of your list is doing. Vindicators are, ironically, better included in a long range shooty list, and Predators in a more aggressive close range list. Here's why:

1. Scatter. Having your units within 12" of the enemy means you need to worry about that pie plate rolling a double six and trashing your own guys. It also means you can struggle to reach any viable targets within 24" once you hit melee, either due to combat locks or having your models too close to risk it. On the other hand, the Pred has 48" guns, can be shooting from turn one, giving you covering fire for your advance, and never scatters.

2. Deterrent. If you're playing a shooty list such as SM with Guard allies, you want to keep the enemy at arms length. That CSM player will think twice before running at you with Plague Marines if you've got a Vindicator tucked away in your deployment zone out of sight, just waiting for something to reach mid-table and blow it away. Ditto Nob Bikers, Paladins etc. I find a Vindicator performs best when it survives to the end of the game, and only fires one or two shots - it means you've forced the enemy to react to your unit and wasted his time or resources. Also if you're cracking transports with Autocannons/Lascannons from 48" away, you're safe when the Vindicator drops a pie plate on the disembarked occupants - less so if you're doing it with meltaguns.

Also it depends what your list is short on. Got very limited AA? Preds. Got limited Rhino/Chimera cracking firepower? Preds. Got no answer to multi-wound T4/5? Vindicator. Got no answer to AV14? Vindicator.

They're both playable, although in BA (my regular army) I'll always lean towards the Preds because of the points above plus the fact that they make better use of the Fast rule, moving 12" and putting out a Lascannon and Autocannon at full BS.


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## Kontempt (Dec 1, 2009)

For me I usually take the vindicator for the psychological effect. Your opponent would have seen whole units disappear at some point from a well placed pie plate, so just putting a vindi on the table you can dictate the movement of your opponent.

Also along with what sethis was saying, you only need a couple of good shots to take a chunk out of your opponent, often killing whole units or having the remnants fall back. I don't find that scatter is really an issue. It's no worse than just straight up missing, and you've still got armour saves against the heavy bolter. 

Now with the Dark Angles Codex I'm using Power field Generators, making the Vindicator far more survivable, so you can take it up to the centre of the board with confidence. Played a couple of games the other week and finished with all Hull Points intact.


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## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

Also i think the vindi shines when it is NOT a sole unit, preferably similar to the linebreaker squadron (3 Vindis). Now that just bosses its way around the field. I would agree with the above posters that a single predator > single vindi, but in large pts, having 3 S10 AP2 Pies of death in addition to certain SM builds (Razor builds with LCs or Rifledreads would do quite well with vindis - Dreads/Razors pop transports/ Flyer, and Vindis gobble up the contents) will be effective. 

I would not say that the predator has excellent anti-infantry prowess compared to the vindi, but i guess the main mitigating factor for it is cost in the SM book. But SM dont do too shabbily in the anti - medium/light infantry dept, so is a dakka pred THAT much more effective in terms of antipersonnel power? No. However vindis need to be spammed, and then it becomes a SCREW YOU, and they need to take into account the rest of the list.

To summarise: For a single tank, pick a pred. If spamming, and AA/light AT covered elsewhere, then vindi (>1), just for the POW! factor


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