# Supreme Sorceress on Winged Cold One



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

For anyone who is interested, I've been beavering away with a WHFB Dark Elf army I started when the 6th Ed Army Book was released. Following my return to the hobby this Summer, I dug out my Dark Elves just in time for the new Dark Elves.

I wanted something a little bit different and went for a lizard/cold theme - here's the background:

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21877

Here's the WIP thread:

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21436

----

Anyway, following those threads and my lovely 3 year old 'getting' me a Supreme Sorceress on a Cold One, I decided with advice that a Lvl 3/4 Sorceress shouldn't be running around on a stupid Cold One. So, I've began a bit of a project to stick some wings on this: 










The idea is to use the Cold One as a Pegasus. I looked at the Dark Pegasus and Winged Nightmare wings yesterday at Warhammer World but they're not gonna fit - the only space I've got to wrangle some wings in is if the Sorceress is wrapping her legs around the base of the wings.

I've started making the frame for the wings, but I'm unsure on sizing. If the wire is straight, what do think the length of it should be in proportion to the body?

The plan is to have the CO landing on some rocks, so the wngs would be in a 'back' position. I'm hoping to construct them out of thick paper with PVA and then detail with greenstuff. Anyone know any good tutorials on making dragon-esque wings?

Pics to follow... 

Cheers,

Syph.


----------



## Rahmiel (Jan 3, 2009)

Sounds like a neat idea. Try this site for a good method of scratch built wings, they are perfect for reptilian creatures and can be made to any size. 
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

*Cough*.

Actually, that's a very nice site, good find.


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks for the links. Going to have a look and see what's what.


----------



## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Very interested in watching this one come along. Let us know how easy it is to make the wings!


----------



## pchandler43 (Nov 28, 2008)

That looks awesome, cant wait to see how it turns out


----------



## enieffac (Nov 24, 2008)

I have a creature with a set of bat type wings that I made from a wire frame and a plastic bag. That creature is going to be my Khorne Daemon Prince. I whipped him up earlier today to experiment with that idea for my Fateweaver wings... Should be a WIP thread on Fateweaver somewhere nearby...


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

That is absolutely shit hot. F'kin stunned! :shok:


----------



## pchandler43 (Nov 28, 2008)

Ugh now I'm going to have to make an IFS for my guardsmen

Imperial Fly Swatter


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Bit of an update:

I assembled the model tonight which went smoothly. Pinned the Sorceress to the Cold One and started the base using some slate to make it look like she's landing. Need to add some cork and gravel. 

Also got some pictures of wings from various places to get some ideas and drafted some wings on some paper.

Anyway, pics -










One wing slightly wonky.



















And one of the base. With the wife to be being an attention whore lol.










*Thoughts*

I think those wings are a little too large. I'm happy with the shape and position though and may add another 'finger'. Going to make the armature once I've had a bit of feedback.


----------



## LVix (Oct 18, 2008)

Looks amazing and a very clever concept too... definately go for the third 'finger' on the wing though. (for some reason odd numbers tend to look visually better than even... darn odd. :wink: )

Another thing to consider would be a different angle to the wings: possibly leaning forward a bit more. The base is great so far... I look forward to seeing more. :grin:


----------



## enieffac (Nov 24, 2008)

I'd add at least one more "finger" on each wing. As is, they look suspiciously like one of those triangular hang gliders slapped onto each side of the mount.


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

LVix said:


> Looks amazing and a very clever concept too... definately go for the third 'finger' on the wing though. (for some reason odd numbers tend to look visually better than even... darn odd. :wink: )
> 
> Another thing to consider would be a different angle to the wings: possibly leaning forward a bit more. The base is great so far... I look forward to seeing more. :grin:





enieffac said:


> I'd add at least one more "finger" on each wing. As is, they look suspiciously like one of those triangular hang gliders slapped onto each side of the mount.


It does have 3 fingers in total, but I can see where you're both coming from. Perhaps if the first finger is slightly larger, or in fact if there's a larger finger after the current final finger to make the wings look slightly spread? Like the Batman logo if you see what I mean. These were modelled on dragon wings off the GW site.

LVix - by angle, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Do you mean sorta curved towards? There are two options for me really. They can be curved inwards to look like it's starting to roost or I can have them back quite dramatically to make them look like it's swooped down.

Opinions gladly received!


----------



## LVix (Oct 18, 2008)

Ah yes I wasn't so very clear on what I ment about the angle... I was thinking tilting them forwards so the sorceress' staff is no longer in front as it just looks like the wing is going to hit the staff atm. but then I can't hold the model so that may be a case of a bad angled photo. (It does look fine with the current angle of the wings btw... I'm just doing my usual brainstorming thing here! :wink: )

I found a pic that might be useful to you; its a simple run down of the structure of bat wings (well a bat in general really... its not 100% accurate but well good enough for anyone wanting to know about wings)... which should also help with referring to different wing parts in this thread. :grin:


----------



## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

It is looking good so far Syph, I agree with the others that the wings would look more realistic with an extra finger. When you fit the armature are you planning on giving the wings are more curved appearance or keeping them as the paper is at the moment?

I like the bat LVix, the smile is rather endearing!


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

LVix said:


> Ah yes I wasn't so very clear on what I ment about the angle... I was thinking tilting them forwards so the sorceress' staff is no longer in front as it just looks like the wing is going to hit the staff atm. but then I can't hold the model so that may be a case of a bad angled photo. (It does look fine with the current angle of the wings btw... I'm just doing my usual brainstorming thing here! :wink: )
> 
> I found a pic that might be useful to you; its a simple run down of the structure of bat wings (well a bat in general really... its not 100% accurate but well good enough for anyone wanting to know about wings)... which should also help with referring to different wing parts in this thread. :grin:
> 
> http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n7/Eris10/Batlook3.jpg


Thanks for that. It's better than the bat ones I've got on my Photobucket. I think another finger at the end of the wings, closer to the current last finger is the way to go here. 

In terms of the angle, I'm assuming you mean further forward so they're more horizonal, as opposed to closer to the body. My, it's hard to talk 3D isn't it?! :laugh:



squeek said:


> It is looking good so far Syph, I agree with the others that the wings would look more realistic with an extra finger. When you fit the armature are you planning on giving the wings are more curved appearance or keeping them as the paper is at the moment?
> 
> I like the bat LVix, the smile is rather endearing!


It is a cutie eh! 

In terms of the curvature, I did try and fold the paper where the fingers are to add some roundness to them; I'll definitely add a curve to them when I make the armature.

This is what I'm aiming for I think:










This would look more realistic, take some width off the model (I'm wary it'll look more out of proportion if they're wide open) and also lend some motion to the model. I'm imagining the Cold One landing on the rock with the Sorceress raising her staff back ready to unleash her black magic. 

Does that sound good?


----------



## LVix (Oct 18, 2008)

Sounds very good: though the sweet little bird has me confused as that is about as outstretched as wings can get... now go redo the angle of the wings and show us some pics because it is horrid to talk in 3D! :wink: *points at sig*


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

LVix said:


> Sounds very good: though the sweet little bird has me confused as that is about as outstretched as wings can get... now go redo the angle of the wings and show us some pics because it is horrid to talk in 3D! :wink: *points at sig*


LOL. :laugh:

She might have to wait tonight. Got some Photoshop work on tonight! :shok:

I just meant I wanted the wings to be angled back as far as you'd expect wings to do, give that whole 'swoop' effect.

EDIT: Still a little birdie, but... http://www.coloradominute.com/m/17000/17621/images/BirdLandingOnSnow 1207.jpg


----------



## LVix (Oct 18, 2008)

I think I get what you mean now... these might help as the wing structure of a raptor is more comparable to a bat than a tiny but ever so sweet birdie. :grin: 

Eagle 
Osprey...very nice picture too! 
Osprey number 2!


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

LVix said:


> I think I get what you mean now... these might help as the wing structure of a raptor is more comparable to a bat than a tiny but ever so sweet birdie. :grin:
> 
> Eagle
> Osprey...very nice picture too!
> Osprey number 2!


You absolute legend. The bottom 2 are perfect for what I'm hoping to achieve - the first pic was what I had in mind for 'option b'. Cheers!


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

You know how you were talking about leaning the wings forward LVix? Well I tried that and the swoop look. I think you have a winner...





































And with 1 wing swooping back - 










Think they'd need to be bigger to be able to swoop back.

Made them smaller, 3 fingered. Thoughts? I think it'd be easier to actually make the bloody armature now because the paper just isn't flexible enough to test positioning.


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Update!

The armature is made, extra detail is on the base and the holes are drilled. Next is to greenstuff the fingers and details, and I'm going to pinch some bits from the Corsair/CoK box sets to help make the finger tips/spikes and make some flesh hooks to dangle from the flappy centre bits of the wings - which I hope to make from paper soaked with PVA. 














































Enjoy. Comments?


----------



## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Other than pointing out how fantastic this is going to look, one comment I have is you should try bending the wire over a tube by rolling the tube underneath it and varying the pressure to control the curve. It probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but if you use a roller to bend things it stops kinks forming. So you end up with a natural curve rather than a lumpy curve. Give me a shout if you want further garbled explanations!


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

squeek said:


> Other than pointing out how fantastic this is going to look, one comment I have is you should try bending the wire over a tube by rolling the tube underneath it and varying the pressure to control the curve. It probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but if you use a roller to bend things it stops kinks forming. So you end up with a natural curve rather than a lumpy curve. Give me a shout if you want further garbled explanations!


No, it makes sense. Because the metal will be covered with GS, I think the majority of curves/kinks _shouldn't_ show. But certainly the larger kinks I'll follow your advice on - I think for the most part they're quite smooth. I'll be adding a slight curve, forward or back (not sure) as they're quite straight at present. I'm not sure if what I've said makes much sense, but I'd be curving the bottom half of the fingers to add a more natural curve to them.

Does it make sense? :laugh:

One thing I'm worried about is the strength of the finger joints - I've had to re-affix them a couple of times. Reckon the GS will reinforce them somewhat?


----------



## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a much better suggestion for the wing 'flappy bit'. You know the tomatoe puree you can get in a tube? (old fashioned tooth brush style tubes), well the foil these are made from is ideal for this. I would recommend using this, and you could make the whole wings from one tube for less than a £1.

The whole thing is looking realy good though.


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

humakt said:


> I have a much better suggestion for the wing 'flappy bit'. You know the tomatoe puree you can get in a tube? (old fashioned tooth brush style tubes), well the foil these are made from is ideal for this. I would recommend using this, and you could make the whole wings from one tube for less than a £1.
> 
> The whole thing is looking realy good though.


I. LOVE. YOU.


----------



## enieffac (Nov 24, 2008)

A tip on superglue and wire... Gluing one wire to another and ending up with something strong is almost impossible. Your better options are 1: solder, 2: twist the wires together somehow (a good option if you need a bulky "joint" with multiple limbs connecting), 3: take a piece of strong thread and wrap it around the joint some dozens of times before you apply the glue (a good option if you want a thin joint)


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

enieffac said:


> A tip on superglue and wire... Gluing one wire to another and ending up with something strong is almost impossible. Your better options are 1: solder, 2: twist the wires together somehow (a good option if you need a bulky "joint" with multiple limbs connecting), 3: take a piece of strong thread and wrap it around the joint some dozens of times before you apply the glue (a good option if you want a thin joint)


I've got some very thin and flexible metal wire that I'm going to wrap around the joints and I'm hoping that once I glue on the metal skin sections of the wing and greenstuff that particular joint it'll be far more durable than at present. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Great job on the wings. The armature looks great on them at the moment. Also another good material to use as the inbetween membrane thingy could be either:

balloon rubber- has a good texture when painted and can be made to looked damaged by punching holes in it and the like. Just don't apply it tight. get it loose.

spectacle cleaning cloths- a nice fine cloth that can be given a rough leathery texture when paint applied onto it ( mine has some spilled on it) 



Might be too late now but I'll ask anyway. Are nazgul wings too big do you think? I remember seeing one that looked pretty small compared to the high elf dragon but might not be sure. great job so far though


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Lord Reevan said:


> Great job on the wings. The armature looks great on them at the moment. Also another good material to use as the inbetween membrane thingy could be either:
> 
> balloon rubber- has a good texture when painted and can be made to looked damaged by punching holes in it and the like. Just don't apply it tight. get it loose.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions Reevan. I like the sound of the balloon rubber, although I think because it's more static I'm going to try the puree tube for now and see how that goes.

With regards the Nazgul wings, it's more a case of where they'll actually affix to the model. Because of the small gap where I've got to place them (for it to be reasonably anatomically correct) it's very difficult to find wings that'd fit in the gap. I had thought of several different types of wings, pinning them and then covering some of the excess pin I'd have to leave in order for it to fit using greenstuff. In the end I though 'sod it' and I've made them myself! :laugh:


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

What you've got going looks great though. they're better than a lot of the set wings. And the puree tube is probably the best idea, I've used for a corsair conversion before but I just thought about giving you some alternatives. Still great job!!


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Update. Morrisons visit on Friday and I came back, amongst other things, with tomato puree. However, whilst doing the washing up tonight, having cut the puree tube ready, I noticed something very interesting regarding Muller Light yoghurts...




























^^ Love that pattern!










Next? Greenstuff!


----------



## enieffac (Nov 24, 2008)

oooooooooooooooooooooo................. 
umm...... where are my car keys and is the grocery store open at 1:40am..... I gotta get me some of that..... :victory::victory::victory:


----------



## keytag33 (Apr 20, 2008)

Sypth that winged cold one is looking fantastic. I love the texature on the wings. Who would of thought of a good use for yogurt:laugh:


----------



## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Great idea Syph. I hope this doesnt prove to easily damaged though, as this foil is quite thin if I recall.


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks everyone. 



humakt said:


> Great idea Syph. I hope this doesnt prove to easily damaged though, as this foil is quite thin if I recall.


Me too, although they're a bit tougher now they have the skeleton support provided by the fingers. The lid has also toughened the joint at the top of the wing. I'm hoping that once it's been GS'd and had a few layers of paint it'll be durable enough. Just gotta be careful around Spearmen and Cold One Knight lances! :laugh:

I've already cut the tomato puree wings ready, should these prove to be less than satisfactory.


----------



## enieffac (Nov 24, 2008)

If you're trying to strengthen the wing foil, a few coats of varnish should do wonders to keep pointy things from making holes.


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks, I must remember to use my varnish more. Because it's gloss I barely use it.


----------



## LVix (Oct 18, 2008)

Looking great so far Syph! :biggrin: Good choice with the muller lids, that pattern is a nice skin-like texture and definately save much green stuff time of trying to re-create the texture of bat wings. (This is why I avoid making my own wings.... I would go mad trying to get the anatomy right. :crazy: )

Need to see this one painted!!! Hurry up and finish converting!!! 

(I'm sooo going to get a "where is my daemon prince?" look from Druchii for saying that! ) :wink:


----------



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks LVix, and thanks for the +rep also. All I have left to do is greenstuff the fingers and we're ready for paint. I'm hoping to do that this weekend.


----------



## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Wow Syph, that is looking good. That pattern is perfect for the wings.


----------



## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

lookin good syph great idea with the yogurt lids. Some holes in it would add some character to the model anyway!


----------



## Rahmiel (Jan 3, 2009)

Looks great, turned out really well, nice thought to use the foil to add that reptilian texture.


----------

