# Pointy Eared Bastards...



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

My first foray into Warhammer Fantasy was with the High Elves, and I'm returning to them with the new army book that makes infantry a viable option again. That being said, I'm not really sure where to begin. Any other High Elf commanders out there? I'd appreciate any suggestions for a solid starting point beyond "spearmen and archers."


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

Pick one of the 3 specialist infantry units and get a decent sized unit to provide an ultra solid core for your army. Then surround it with other elements.

White lions, Swordmasters or Phoenix guard.

I rate the phoenix guard really highly, plus i reckon they're the best models out of the three.

Thats just my opinion though.


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## Asmodai (Dec 30, 2006)

Sadly, those are the starting point.

Another approach is characters first. Do you want a dragon? Do you want to dominate the magic phase?

Once you've made those decisions, you'll be able to design the rest of your force to play to your characters' strengths.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Oh, I wholly agree-- I'm just not sure where to form the actual Core. I'm thinking that my initial army will be a very themed Phoenix Guard army. I generally fight against armies that aren't terribly magic heavy, but pack a lot of anti-magic stuff. Honestly, even though it's one of the High Elves' strengths, I'd just as soon leave the casters at home. 

This is my sort of conceptual 2250 army list. Expensive to build, but it's a backseat project anyway...something to build and paint a rank or two at a time. 

Lords/
-Sethaiys, Phoenix Guard Champion 240 points
--The White Sword (modelled as a halberd), Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix

Heroes/
-Caradryan 175 points
--Normally, I'm predisposed against special characters, but honestly, he's not that special...he's just a hero-level Phoenix Guard. 

-Phoenix Guard Hero (Noble) 194 points
--Battle Standard Bearer, Battle Banner, Heavy Armour

-Priest of Asuryan (Mage) 150 points
--Two dispel scrolls, High Magic

Core/
-15 Archers 170 points
--Musician

-15 Archers 170 points
--Musician

-10 Archers 115 points
--Musician

Special/
-Sethayis' Phoenix Guard 340 points
--19 Phoenix Guard. Full Command, Banner of Ellyrion

-Caradryan's Phoenix Guard 340 points
--19 Phoenix Guard. Full Command, War Banner

-Phoenix Guard 315 points
--19 Phoenix Guard. Full Command

-Phoenix Guard 315 points
--19 Phoenix Guard. Full Command


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## Asmodai (Dec 30, 2006)

Looks fairly solid. If you're breaking theme for the archers (and you pretty much need to), you might consider taking a Bolt Thrower to go with them. It would give you something to help thin out heavy cavalry and monsters that you really don't want to fight with your Phoenix Guard.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I'd be inclined to agree, but to do that, I'd probably have to drop the 10-strong Archer unit, and I'd only be able to afford a single bolt thrower. It might be worthwhile if only because I intend to pick up the Battallion just for the sake of starting and getting the feel for High Elves as they are now-- and there's a bolt thrower in there, I think. That does leave room for another Phoenix Guard though... maybe make either the Prince's or Caradryan's unit 20-strong and just have the odd man in the back rank.


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

I love this list, but then, i love themed armies, and phoenix guard. I really like cc elite infantry, and this is a great list for that. Large units of the phoenix guard are great, in order to maximise the benefit of them causing fear...
I'd love to see how this grows and evolves.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Having a unit that can send your love all the way accross the table on turn one is a blessing! Try to keep at least one RBT in your army, as well as at least one Eagle. The Eagle can drop little care packages on the helms and shoulders of your enemies, thus slowing them down while they attempt to wipe it off. This will give the archers in your list another round or two of shooting, as well as allow your combat infantry units time to get into optimal positions. 

The RBT and Eagle are fairly small units, but can have a tremendous impact on the game for the points.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

sword master!!!!!!! +2S always strike first probaly ws5 or high (don't have the book)


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

It's certainly a toss-up between swordmasters and phoenix guard. I opted to lean on the phoenix guard because of two things-- they cause fear, and they have a 4+ ward save. When you fight dwarfs, daemons, and brettonians mostly... it's good to have both things. I mean, it's good in any rate, but the ward save helps out a lot against the gun line and the charging lances, and fear keeps them in the fight against daemons.

Most High Elves are WS5 or better, and ALL of them strike first now. A lot of people think that's sort of broken, but they're still T3 so they get kneed in the junk when they get hit all the same. Striking first just makes them playable, really.


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## Tiberius (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm interested on how this list works for you. As High Elves were also my first Army in Fantasy, and today I can field them in any manner,but I never thought of this theme.


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## Asmodai (Dec 30, 2006)

The Son of Horus said:


> It's certainly a toss-up between swordmasters and phoenix guard. I opted to lean on the phoenix guard because of two things-- they cause fear, and they have a 4+ ward save.


Not to mention the Phoenix Guard models are so much better in detail and pose that they look like they're from a completely different game than the old Swordmasters.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I've been reading over my shiny new army book, and it's really struck me as to how much better White Lions are than swordmasters. The Lions are S4 base, and are still WS5 so they're going to be hitting most stuff on 3's anyway... the WS6 the swordmasters are packing is almost kind of a moot point. But then the Lions also ignore woods terrain, which is a dominant feature of the fantasy battlefield in my experience. What's the point of having swordmasters when the Lions are so clearly superior?

On a slightly different note, I'm thinking about doing something drastically different for my Battle Standard Bearer. I'm thinking that since I want the army to have a very dedicated Phoenix Guard theme, I'm going to have the Battle Standard Bearer be a phoenix guard who's conjuring a giant rune of Asuryan... have it attached to his hand by some smoke or something and have it burning overhead. Would that clearly be a BSB if he were armored and phoenix guard-y, or would he look too much like a mage if I have him conjuring the "banner" instead of carrying a more traditional one?


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## Frodo (Nov 13, 2007)

I think itd look pretty cool ! i find the all attack first thing a bit cheesy but then, when dark elves come out and can fight back again il be happy  they have some trouble @ the moment


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I've playtested the Elves a fair bit using goblin models (blasphemy, I know, but that's all I've got on the appropriate base sizes!) and honestly, they're not that broken. Hitting first is offset by low armor saves and T3. When they get hit back, you lose models. For example, a regiment of Phoenix Guard can get charged by a unit of any race's heavy cav (of the varitey with a 2+ armor save or so) and they MIGHT kill one striking first. Then the lances plow through and you'll lose some Phoenix Guard, even with the 4+ ward save, and still lose combat-- you won't necessarily outnumber the cavalry since each model is Unit Strength 2, and you probably won't inflict more casualties. The Elf units are badass on paper, but it's clear that they take a lot of finesse to use well. Unless you have an army themed on Caledor, in which case you're just being a dick... multiple dragons and heavy cavalry that's half the price of a Chosen Knight but is just as good... yeah.


That being said, the list is still really f*cking mean. I actually sat down with a calculator, and I had to make a few revisions both for points and for playability. I needed to add an eagle and the cavalry to ensure that I don't end up with a rolled flank. I figure Silver Helms are appropriate to the theme since High Elf nobles are expected to make a pilgrimage to the Shrine of Asuryan at least once in their lives.

Here's how the army is at 2250 exactly.

Lords/
-Prince
--Blade of Sea Gold, Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix

Heroes/
-Caradryan

-High Elf Mage
--Level 1, Dispel Scroll

-High Elf Mage
--Level 1, Dispel Scroll

Core/
-12 Archers
--Musician

-12 Archers
--Musician

Special/
-19 Phoenix Guard
--Full Command, Banner of Ellyrion

-19 Phoenix Guard
--Full Command, War Banner

-20 Phoenix Guard
--Full Command

-10 Silver Helms
--Full Command

Rare/
-Great Eagle

-Repeater Bolt Thrower


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

> they're from a completely different game than the old Swordmasters.


Merry Christmas all, and yes, the phoenix guard ARE from a completely different game 

I must admit, i was a little worried about the always strikes first thing, but when you think about it, it ultimately makes little difference, since elves would always have higher initiative, and strike first anyway.

The only armies that really have to feel sorry for themselves are the other elf ones to be honest. Esp when you remember (as posted numerous times) how fragile they are.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

While I've been assembling the army, one major speed bump has crossed my path. It shouldn't bother me that much since I'm dropping so much on so many Phoenix Guard, but... 

I want to run a unit of 10 Silver Helms. You get 8 in a box. Any ideas where I can make up those other two models without buying another box of Silver Helms?


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## Blackhiker (Dec 28, 2007)

YOu could buy a couple of blister packs, but that can be more expensive.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Unfortunately, they don't come in blisters, which is why I'm stumped. I waited too long and the old classic range silver helms that I could've bits ordered are no longer available, either. I considered using dragon princes, since I have some I'm not using in the list, and just using two troopers (which sounds so unfitting for a dragon prince...) to fill in, but they look enough different that they won't work either really. I made the unit champion from the Prince boxed set that comes with a mounted and a foot-slogging hero, but that still leaves one model missing. After all, my list calls for a foot-slogging Prince armed with a halberd, and the best way to have done that is to use the new plastics.


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