# Whats the most common mistake you see with peoples armies?



## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

I think I'm trying to ask, what do you see wrong with armies when they start being played on the field? 

For instance... Someone who takes a rhino and only has 6 men for it? Do you think, idiot should have taken a razorback with more firepower? 

The kind of things that you see regularly and is just plain wrong.


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## Dagmire (Oct 9, 2008)

Its their list, they can run it how they want, as long as its legal.
Maybe give them some pointers after the game.....


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Really only one I tend to see is Blob Guard with PCS included. 5E books are fairly straight forward.


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

An IG guy at our club has issued 3 orders TOTAL over his last 3 games..... Makes me want to rip my hair out and scream..


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## Champion Alaric (Feb 17, 2011)

A Salamander army with Vulkan. Zero TH and one melta and 2 flamers..He was just a kid tho so i wasn't like "DIPSHIT" just related to him how much more worthwhile it is to put those lements in the army..I dont think alot of guys set out to do the wrong thing, it seems experience alienates you from first timers perspectives.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

Ground pounding blood angels against my truck mounted orks. no deepstrikers at all and a single assault squad. 
I pulled a denied flank and rolled up his flank before he could redeploy. What is the point of a close combat orinted army that cannot react? I could probabley stood back and shot him to death as he walked towards me.


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## Swarmlord (Feb 19, 2011)

30 Ork Boyz and no PK 

I have seen this happen alot with some of the Ork players at my gaming club. I understand that they will be moving and keeping track of alot of boyz and forget things like a PK but still man lol you really need a PK. Its damn funny when a Dreadbought wrecks right in the middle of the boyz.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Painting their army instead of paying me to.... :victory:


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## LKHERO (Nov 24, 2010)

Biggest mistakes:

1. The army's units have no synergy with one another.
2. Ineffecient use of points.
3. Not enough all-comers, so the army folds when met by a hard counter.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

only mistake I see is that people no longer put imagination into the armies they do or want them to be exactly like the list they saw on the net last week.

players are too concerned with effecient points usage to just take what they like and whats fun for them, just missing them out completely.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> only mistake I see is that people no longer put imagination into the armies they do or want them to be exactly like the list they saw on the net last week.
> 
> players are too concerned with effecient points usage to just take what they like and whats fun for them, just missing them out completely.


I miss themed lists too. :cray: Its just min-maxed bullshit these days. 

Other than that its the christmas tree syndrome that gets me. Guy buys few models and gives them almost every option available. Seriously, Possessed Champion? Plasma pistols on Berzerkers? 60 point Rhinos? Good Lord.


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## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

biggest mistake ive ever seen is someone pulling the 'OMGHAX0RZKILLMASTERDEATHLIST' from the internet and not understanding how the list works at all....for me atleast 20% of the fun is in building my lists.

(for those that want to know: 30% moddeling, 20%playing, 30% socialising with nerds  )


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

I gotta say the over-abundance of power weapons gets on my nerves. For something thats supposed to be 'rare and powerful relics of the Dark Age of Technology', every chapter seems to have enough to equip all the captains, sergeants, specialists and even a few of the rank and file of every force they send out...


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Grokfog said:


> I gotta say the over-abundance of power weapons gets on my nerves. For something thats supposed to be 'rare and powerful relics of the Dark Age of Technology', every chapter seems to have enough to equip all the captains, sergeants, specialists and even a few of the rank and file of every force they send out...


40K Tabletop is to 40K Lore as World of Warcraft is to Warcraft Lore: its not about writing a coherent story that makes sense, but balancing* gameplay and making money.

*Balancing doesn't mean that everyone has an equal chance of winning regarding what they use (Codex/class) but that there must always be winners and losers. Winners buy more of what they have, losers buy winner stuff.


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

Khorothis said:


> 40K Tabletop is to 40K Lore as World of Warcraft is to Warcraft Lore: its not about writing a coherent story that makes sense, but balancing* gameplay and making money.
> 
> *Balancing doesn't mean that everyone has an equal chance of winning regarding what they use (Codex/class) but that there must always be winners and losers. Winners buy more of what they have, losers buy winner stuff.


True, players are always going to use whats effective, and GW will capitalise on everything they can, but i just think its a shame that players have to go against the spirit of the background material in order to stay competetive.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

when people rely too much on their heavy support, that the rest of their army is weak and poorly cordinated


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

People buying useless upgrade mostly. Vehicles especially but often unit have lot of options but that does not mean you should buy them. Things like Vectored Engines etc.


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## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

BA Players (well, Player) who rush their hot-shit Fast Vindicators straight across the board at me, then get pissy when i Deepstrike my Obliterators behind them in the convenient 8" radius safe zone they left behind them and put 3 Lascannon/Multimelta/Melta shots into their rear armor.

Or that same player, who drops their Turn-1 Pod-Nought within 12" of my board-edge in a Dawn of War game when none of my stuff is on the field, and is then surprised when my entire army rolls on the board and Meltaguns it to death. 

Protip: Winning isn't just about knowing how to play your army, its about knowing the capabilities of the enemy army, so you don't leave easy to exploit weaknesses in your force.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

People who try to write powerlists, take them to tourneys, then sulk because they lost one of their games with what was supposedly an unbeatable list. 

Seriously, I attend tourneys regularly and I see the same people at most of them running power build lists. I have thus far resisted every temptation to do likewise. I will happily run my themed army and accept my placing in mid field area on the ladder. 

It`s about fun people, your balls ain`t gonna fall off if you lose a game now and then.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

T4 HQs without a retinue, just to get blown apart by a single railgun.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

Not remembering the mission, so they go after killing a unit which is not going to win them the game and ignoring moving towards a objective that will.


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> People who try to write powerlists, take them to tourneys, then sulk because they lost one of their games with what was supposedly an unbeatable list.
> 
> Seriously, I attend tourneys regularly and I see the same people at most of them running power build lists. I have thus far resisted every temptation to do likewise. I will happily run my themed army and accept my placing in mid field area on the ladder.
> 
> It`s about fun people, your balls ain`t gonna fall off if you lose a game now and then.


You reminded me of the 09 WFB Tournament in Nottingham, i turned up with daemons, every one of my opponents were like "Oh great, another daemon army!"

I took a Khorne / Slaanesh combo and every game started with the conversation:

"How many casters you got?"
"None"
"Really? None!? What about..."
"Nope... none. I have no spell casters"
"What about that?"
"Nope... no magic... no power dice... and only basic dispel dice"
*Blank look from opponent*

won 2 lost 2 which isnt bad for my first Tournament!


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Taking Vulkan, and no Melta, Flamers or Thunder Hammers to be seen in the whole army... :/


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

> Not remembering the mission, so they go after killing a unit which is not going to win them the game and ignoring moving towards a objective that will.


um... I sometimes forget about the objectives (This is only occansional!) and more-or-less just kill everything within CC or bolter range...


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Being entirely honest, I've got to say bad chaos lists. Like occasionally I'll see some tyranid lists that aren't synergized correctly, or maybe an eldar list with not enough speed and psychic powers to be truly strong.

But seriously I've seen some whackbag wtf chaos lists; I'm not even talking about how competitive they are, they just make no goddamn sense to me.
Lord with power fist, melta bomb, personal icon(NO DEEPSTRIKERS)
20x khorne berzerkers, no champ, no pistols, no anything.
20x Unmarked possessed.
5 squads of lesser daemons with only a single icon to summon them from
buying a rhino for a squad numbering 11(His excuse was once one died they could jump in)
5 nurgle marines, no wargear or ride
slaaneshi marines with no wargear
Maximized chaos spawn.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Deathscythe4722 said:


> Protip: Winning isn't just about knowing how to play your army, its about knowing the capabilities of the enemy army, so you don't leave easy to exploit weaknesses in your force.


thats not a pro-tip, thats just rewording of sun-tzu


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Sun-tzu the ultimate Pro. 


Unsupported Characters expected to win combats etc is probably the most regular I see.


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## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

my oppoent takes the cake today. He took melta bombs on his sergenats knowing i was using tyranids and as i was getting half of them out. I tabled him ton turn 3 however as my Hormaguants muched EVERYTHING and he spent way to much time panicking over the "distration Spore mines".


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## Daniel Harper (May 25, 2008)

People that take the fun out of the game when making lists. I have no problem with people making competitive lists to win, but when they then criticise everyone else in a rude manner? I've recently started playing at my local GW and I enjoy it. But one day this guy came in and all he could do was moan. And essentially take shots at people. "Only idiots take deff dreads in an ork army." So yeah people like him that make competitive lists but are then rude about everyone else's.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Daniel Harper said:


> So yeah people like him that make competitive lists but are then rude about everyone else's.


don't worry, plenty of them around to share.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

People who just exploit mech and then expect it to be unstoppable because some geezer on the internet said so. Then they get upset when my marines who behave like Tau (Basically spend all game sitting back and shooting with as many guns as possible) manage to halt their attack.


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## Snake40000 (Jan 11, 2010)

People who take Chaos Dreadnoughts with Plasmacannons who then Cry (Yes cry as in tears) when they get there troops blown to hell on a dice roll of 1.


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## CardShark (Dec 20, 2010)

people not using eldar holofields with their vehicles


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Stephen_Newman said:


> People who just exploit mech and then expect it to be unstoppable because some geezer on the internet said so. Then they get upset when my marines who behave like Tau (Basically spend all game sitting back and shooting with as many guns as possible) manage to halt their attack.


but but but its mech, its unstoppable!, I have proof, some guy/girl on a forum said it to be so, so neh.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> only mistake I see is that people no longer put imagination into the armies they do or want them to be exactly like the list they saw on the net last week.
> 
> players are too concerned with effecient points usage to just take what they like and whats fun for them, just missing them out completely.


Pretty much what I was going to say.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> only mistake I see is that people no longer put imagination into the armies they do or want them to be exactly like the list they saw on the net last week.
> 
> players are too concerned with effecient points usage to just take what they like and whats fun for them, just missing them out completely.


i also agree...but other than that i find that hybrid Marine (C:SM specifically) armies forgetting to shoot or rapid fire instead of assaulting.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Main mistakes I see are 2-fold.

First- people forgetting that their shooty units can charge into combat. I played a no-MC mono-tzeentch army (gotta be just about the weakest possible CC army) but I still lost count of the number of times I charged into combat- the charging attack bonuses being on the other foot is often massively helpful (and watching an opponent's face when they get spanked in combat by horrors is fantastic). Its often better to charge into a CC based enemy then RF and get charged (says the ex-SW player)... especially if the enemy happens to be orks: 4 S4 attacks each on charge or 3 S3 attacks on defence, against T4 thats 50% as powerful. Even when I played SW the choice of BP and charge or RF and counter-attack was a pretty close call, if I played basic marines it would have been a no brainer.

Secondly- so many people build their army with only 1 tactic in mind. More often then not this involves sitting still and shooting... as soon as they meet an army where that won't work they lose, they have nothing to fall back upon. I remember what someone said once in respect to WFB- to win the game you have to win at least 2 of the 4 phases (move, magic, shoot, combat) but the same is often true for 40k, although in place of magic I might add attrition...


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Idiots who sit defilers behind walls because there sacred its gonna get shot at. Waisted points why whould you even field the thing if ur not gonna even use it.

One thing i see alot of the time is people who are too stuck on fluff with there daemon armies they refuse to use the codex to its max. effect just because nurgle would never work with tzeench and vice versa. To make that army work you must say screw the fluff and use evereything set at your disposal. All khorne or slaanesh or whatever armies don'tt work because each unit in the book is designed to fulfill a purpose. My fav. waste of points i always see is folks who take instruments with all there units. if they have like 7 or 8 instruments in the army thats like 40pts or so that could have beefed up that bad ass nurgle prince or helped give you KOS a lil more punch. Oh yeah and morons who actually pay pts for Pavane of Slaanesh. Really you would rather try and roll a 4+ on a single shot than just advance and charge.


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## Jackinator (Nov 18, 2008)

Some people like playing with fluff armies, just because it's not the most effective gameplay choice doesn't make them stupid. People can play how they want don't criticise them because they appreciate the fluff more than others. And please don't go around and call people morons because they take a choice you don't, it's unfair and moronic


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

another mistake I see is people admit to not playing SPESS MAHREENS, its a shame seeing someone happy to play say Orks then getting ripped into by fellow *cough* hobbyists *cough* for not playing with tonka toys painted red/grey, big mistake.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Jackinator said:


> Some people like playing with fluff armies, just because it's not the most effective gameplay choice doesn't make them stupid. People can play how they want don't criticise them because they appreciate the fluff more than others. And please don't go around and call people morons because they take a choice you don't, it's unfair and moronic


Look its one thing to do these things in freindly games but when u acually pay to play in a tournement and do things like that is when i say your not thinking right. Its just I get tired of seeing epople do what i said above and hear them whine about the army sux because they didnt wanna listen to me when i gave them advice.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Playing fluffy isnt a mistake... just an option.
Last tourny I played in I took a mono-tzeentch army and had a great day: I didn't win (came about 8th/30) but even though I built my army for anti-mech and faced 1 vehicle all day (d'oh) I still managed to not lose and had a great day.
I paid entry and had fun... I dont see where the mistake was in that. Then again, while my daemons might have the best chance of winning I'm planning on taking my necrons this year... they wont win but I want a bit of fun


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## Jackinator (Nov 18, 2008)

TheSpore said:


> Look its one thing to do these things in freindly games but when u acually pay to play in a tournement and do things like that is when i say your not thinking right. Its just I get tired of seeing epople do what i said above and hear them whine about the army sux because they didnt wanna listen to me when i gave them advice.


Not thinking right? Have you seen some of the fluffy army lists out there? Some of them are absolutely brutal. Look at Death guard armies for example. Now I'll admit that some aren't effective at all but a fluff-tailored list can be extremely effective in the hands of a good player.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

sorry most fluff daemon armies are not effective Death Gaurd i will agree but its a totally diffrent army altogether. CSM can be fieled fluffy effectively but daemon armies not so much. If you don't think outside the box with daemons you will lack many things the army needs to be succesful. 

Look im not actively insulting anyone and im sorry if you or anyone else has taken offense to what i said. IDK how long you have been into warhammer but i have been playing since 2nd ed. and Ive been playing the daemon army since it was released in 4th. Also to note i was an Intel. Analyst in the military as well. So I do think I know a thing or 2 about strategy and tactics and how the mechanics of the game work. 

The mistakes I see most players make is they stay in a complacent enviroment when they play and don't consider options that would greatly excel there playing experiance and also wield better results. Sure we can argue and play math hammer all day long but in the end its how play the army that matters. 


Once again I apologise if anyone was offended.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

> my oppoent takes the cake today. He took melta bombs on his sergenats knowing i was using tyranids and as i was getting half of them out.


Maybe that is the list he normally takes and didn't want to list tailor. I actually give him props for that if that is the case. 



> People who take Chaos Dreadnoughts with Plasmacannons who then Cry (Yes cry as in tears) when they get there troops blown to hell on a dice roll of 1


That is why you run them beside a landraider...duh


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## Jackinator (Nov 18, 2008)

I wasn't criticising your ability as a player, merely your criticisms of how others want to play the game. When I say, depending on the abilities of the player it is not meant to be directed at anyone so I apologise if it came across as that. Some people go to tournaments to win, some for fun and some for both. Like Tim/Steve said, playing fluffy is not a mistake, it's an option. I apologise for misreading your point about Daemon armies, I thought you were referring to all armies played fluffwise. Oh and no need to apologise, I wasn't insulted, I just thought you were being a little harsh


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Jackinator said:


> I wasn't criticising your ability as a player, merely your criticisms of how others want to play the game. When I say, depending on the abilities of the player it is not meant to be directed at anyone so I apologise if it came across as that. Some people go to tournaments to win, some for fun and some for both. Like Tim/Steve said, playing fluffy is not a mistake, it's an option. I apologise for misreading your point about Daemon armies, I thought you were referring to all armies played fluffwise. Oh and no need to apologise, I wasn't insulted, I just thought you were being a little harsh


Its all good


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## Karnax (Sep 23, 2010)

The biggest mistake I saw was when my brother deepstruck his BA force in a planetstrike game, assaulted, and annihalated me. Next game (non-planetstrike) he deepstruck again, then looked crestfallen when I told him he couldn't assault. My shooting then took down most of his forces.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

ive seen that happen before. its a simple mistake which is why i normally never play the supplements and expansions.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Karnax said:


> The biggest mistake I saw was when my brother deepstruck his BA force in a planetstrike game, assaulted, and annihalated me. Next game (non-planetstrike) he deepstruck again, then looked crestfallen when I told him he couldn't assault. My shooting then took down most of his forces.


Lolfail. :laugh:


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

TheSpore said:


> One thing i see alot of the time is people who are too stuck on fluff with there daemon armies they refuse to use the codex to its max. effect just because nurgle would never work with tzeench and vice versa. To make that army work you must say screw the fluff and use evereything set at your disposal. All khorne or slaanesh or whatever armies don'tt work because each unit in the book is designed to fulfill a purpose. My fav. waste of points i always see is folks who take instruments with all there units. if they have like 7 or 8 instruments in the army thats like 40pts or so that could have beefed up that bad ass nurgle prince or helped give you KOS a lil more punch. Oh yeah and morons who actually pay pts for Pavane of Slaanesh. Really you would rather try and roll a 4+ on a single shot than just advance and charge.


Fluff is nice though, gives a feel to the game


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

TheSpore said:


> sorry most fluff daemon armies are not effective Death Gaurd i will agree but its a totally diffrent army altogether. CSM can be fieled fluffy effectively but daemon armies not so much. If you don't think outside the box with daemons you will lack many things the army needs to be succesful.
> 
> Look im not actively insulting anyone and im sorry if you or anyone else has taken offense to what i said. IDK how long you have been into warhammer but i have been playing since 2nd ed. and Ive been playing the daemon army since it was released in 4th. Also to note i was an Intel. Analyst in the military as well. So I do think I know a thing or 2 about strategy and tactics and how the mechanics of the game work.
> 
> ...


I too play an all Tzeentch Daemon army. And necrons. I play Eldar with little transport and use storm guardians (Biel Tan). I adopt the role of character commander when I play; as in I think the way a legit commander of that army would. 

When I play eldar, I place emphasis on keeping my troops alive as much as possible. When I play necrons, I advance meticulously. When I play daemons, I choose targets on a whim. 

Mate fluff is everything the game was created for. If you want to win that is fine but keep in mind your way is not the only way and neither is mine. 

Apology accepted. :thank_you:


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## Luisjoey (Dec 3, 2010)

making tactical squads sargents without power weapon o PF, but putting meltabombs... LOL 

Making tactical squads of 9... missing the free flamer and the missile launcher/multimelta/hvy bolter


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Grosse misuse of points leading to a fundamentally flawed army construction. IOW, shitty ass army lists. This would include taking everything from 800 point hammer units to trying to spam sky claws.


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## Eleven (Nov 6, 2008)

Khorothis said:


> *Balancing doesn't mean that everyone has an equal chance of winning regarding what they use (Codex/class) but that there must always be winners and losers. Winners buy more of what they have, losers buy winner stuff.


Your understanding of balance is abysmal. I suggest you never speak on the subject again.


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## Minizke1 (Feb 7, 2010)

Completely abandoning the idea of painting miniatures and just leaving them primer-white, or just painting a giant splotch of color on a primer'd mini. Also, space marines armies using digital weapons with a captain who is accompanied by a command squad w/ company banner.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

People deploying deep-striking 'kill me now' units right where I can charge them with, well, everything.

Also not attacking my own 'kill me now' units at all.


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## connor (Jan 31, 2011)

[Minizke1]
[Completely abandoning the idea of painting miniatures and just leaving them primer-white, or just painting a giant splotch of color on a primer'd mini. Also, space marines armies using digital weapons with a captain who is accompanied by a command squad w/ company banner.]

What if i just cant paint good, and it looks like i just blobbed the paint on?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Then your mistake was clearly failing to trick someone into painting the army for you


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

connor said:


> [Minizke1]
> [Completely abandoning the idea of painting miniatures and just leaving them primer-white, or just painting a giant splotch of color on a primer'd mini. Also, space marines armies using digital weapons with a captain who is accompanied by a command squad w/ company banner.]
> 
> What if i just cant paint good, and it looks like i just blobbed the paint on?


Because then at least you're trying. And besides, the only way to get better is to paint often!

In friendly games this is less of an issue, but whenever I face someone with an unpainted force, I just give them a "Really man?" look


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

Only problem I ever have is one guy-puts on stuff which is legal but complains like a wuss when someone corrects him (so having a plasmagun on a Regimental Standard bearer and apparaently having a powerfist AND a powersword in the command squad-and this is on different guys, not just the commander)


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

The most common mistake I see with people's armies are that so very many of them lack any sort of focus. I think a lot of people would notice a big improvement in their game if they'd pick an idea of theme when writing their list and then build toward that. Lots of people take what some call "battleforce armies" where there's just a random smattering of different units that don't really compliment each other very well. I fully understand the attraction to taking lots of different types of units and so on and it's perfectly fine if people want to play that way. I just find it really frustrating when people complain about losing when their lists are so unfocused. Especially since trying to help makes them mad about half the time.


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