# Imperium and aliens



## Pathfinder201 (Jun 26, 2010)

Why does the imperium hate all other races? Sure orks, nids, dark eldar, and deamons need to be hated but what about the tau and regular eldar. What is wrong with them? The tau actually want to ally with people. Also the only way anyone is going to survive the nids is if all races band together.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Why do they hate them? Yes. What? yes. What do you mean yes? Yes. 

They hate them because they aren’t human and they will never ally with any other race apart from the eldar and that’s only to fight chaos and only during certain times.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

As far as the Tau and Eldar go, neither of them want to be allies with us, the Eldar especially.

The Tau want to expand their empire, anyone or anything they come across that they do not have to destroy to do so is free to join them, but it is the Tau who will rule and no one else. One large space empire will not willingly allow another smaller one to steal territory without a problem, because eventually that small empire may not be so small and they might gun for all of that space.


The Eldar on the other hand, they don't care about anyone other than themselves. Everyone and everything else is beneath them in just about every way you can imagine. At one point, the Eldar had an empire that spanned the galaxy, what you see now is the remnant of that trying to survive; and the Eldar have absolutely no problem sacrificing any other race to ensure their own survival.


Both races have no problem not attacking the Imperium when circumstance warrants, when it is better for them to fight a common foe rather than each other for a time. But none of the three factions can co-exist for very long because one wants to expand, one wants to survive, and the Imperium has been taught to hate aliens and that they are the ones who should rule the galaxy.



That last bit is the doing partly of the Emperor and of humanity prior to the Age of Strife (in the period before that, humanity colonized worlds throughout the galaxy and then were cut off from each other by galaxy wide warp storms.) The Emperor sprang forth from terra with fleets designed to find and re-unite the lost worlds, to make them into a galaxy spanning empire because man had already deemed the stars to be his to colonize.

The galaxy of the 40k universe, in the eyes of humanity, belongs to man and no other. Anything else needs to be destroyed, because it is not human and therefore inherently evil and will seek to take away the right of humanity. This is that ten thousand years of regression talking, ten thousand years ago the Imperium fought and wiped out alien races that refused to ally with the expanding Imperium.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

if they all got along and sang koombaya together it would be called star trek not warhammer 40k


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## Tensiu (Aug 15, 2009)

I've red somewhere that long time ago Imperium was actually allying with some alien kinds, but in the very end aliens were not trustworthy, so humankind decided to wipe 'em all as potential danger.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Tensiu said:


> I've red somewhere that long time ago Imperium was actually allying with some alien kinds, but in the very end aliens were not trustworthy, so humankind decided to wipe 'em all as potential danger.


That wasn't the Imperium, it was the Human Federations during the Golden Age of Technology, before the Age of Strife.

Human Empires and Federations held several non-aggression pacts with Alien Races (The Eldar suspected to be among them), but when the Age of Strife hit, many of these Xenos Races betrayed the pacts and preyed upon a weakened Mankind. When the Emperor took power in the Unification Period he decreed that all Xenos must be wiped out for three main reasons in my eyes:

1. The Galaxy was Humanity's birthright, anyone who oppossed such a destiny must be wiped out.
2. Non-Aggression pacts and alliances had existed between Humanity and Xenos before, and all that ultimately came of it was betrayal by the Xenos who took advantage of Mankind's weakness during the Age of Strife.
3. The Emperor intended to weaken Chaos. Both Humanity and Xenos feed and empower Chaos, now Humanity wasn't a problem as the whole species was being united under the Emperor's tyrannical rule and being forced to buy into the Imperial Truth, thus weakening Chaos' grip on the species. Xenos however could not so easily be controlled and continued to feed Chaos, thus this is another reason why they needed to be wiped out, to prevent the further empowerment of Chaos.

Thus from the beginnings of the Imperium (and even before that during the Age of Strife in some cases), Mankind became inherently Xenophobic. The Emperor's will is not to be questioned and thus in everyone's eyes, all Xenos had to be destroyed. This fanatical Xenophobia was likely furthered when the Emperor ascended and became the Imperium's God, questioning and disobeying a great man who had just conquered the galaxy is one thing, but questioning and disobeying a god is infinitely worse.


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## joechip (Mar 4, 2010)

TheSpore said:


> if they all got along and sang koombaya together it would be called star trek not warhammer 40k


I completely agree. Don't get me wrong Pathfinder, I often think "Dear Lord! These guys would be so much better off if they would work together!" but lets face it, the never ending hatred and warfare is what makes 40k unique and different from Star Wars, Trek, Babylon 5, etc.

You want to know the real reason the Imperium hates everyone else? Because it's more entertaining this way :biggrin:


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Lets not forget that it's not just the Imperium being a bit cranky, the other races are hardly holding their hands out expectantly.
The Eldar are not that far removed from the Dark Eldar as far as attitudes towards humanity go, to them we are little more than primitive apes. 
The Tau want to treat humanity as second class citizens, the greater good is only good for the Tau.


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

It is nice to have another optimist here on the forums.

I am like you, pathfinder. I WANT an alliance between Imperium Tau and Eldar.

And yes, I still frankly believe that if the Emperor were revived, he would form an alliance.

If you want, pathfinder, I have several ideas for an "endgame" scenario where a "good vs evil" ending can be produced. I can share my ideas with you.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

You are aware that it is the emperor who put this policy into motion right?


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> You are aware that it is the emperor who put this policy into motion right?


I would frankly prefer not to get in another argument over this, but if I must, I have posted my reasoning below. 

I think a source of confusion was that when I said "possible" I meant "relying only on fluff material that GW itself created to construct my endgame, and nothing that is purely original on my part." 

Times have changed. Things are worse than the age of strife, because there are now Chaos worshippers, Necrons, and 'Nids. And the Emperor doesn't have his primarchs... And there is a chance that if he is revived, he will be weaker. By the time all of this happens, also, the Tau would have grown significantly larger. Now, assuming the Emperor is reasonable and logical, he would see the need for an alliance if humanity is to survive AT ALL.

Besides, the Star Child (which was never TRULY debunked) is said to be the Emperor's compassion that he expelled. If the Emperor is revived via sensei method, the child should flow back into him, causing a (relative) wave of compassion. This should make him at least temporarily more sympathetic towards aliens.

Either way, that is my personal opinion about why it is possible for an alliance to occur if the Emperor is revived. I only used fluff & materials that GW itself created, not having to insert a Dues ex Machina.

And if all else fails, would it be too much to ask for people to allow me to enjoy my little fantasy endgame? After all, this is ultimately a fictional series that thus has plotholes and fallacies.


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## Bionic-Weasel (Jul 10, 2010)

Contrary to popular belief, the Emperor was a pretty nasty guy and there are more than a few hints that he has ordered terrible things. I believe in the Lord of the Night novel it's suggested that the Emperor authorized many of the Night Lords atrocities in order to keep Imperial citizens in line. And while I'm not sure of the source, I believe it was one of the Horus Heresy novels, a few Space Marine legions wipe out a peaceful coalition of xenos and humans who didn't want to be brought into the folds of the Imperium. There's also Fulgrim's example when his legion purged the Laer rather than attempt a peaceful annexation. To me, that suggests humanity has been xenophobic to the highest degree since at least the Great Crusade and I don’t believe the Emperor ever censured Fulgrim for committing genocide.

Now on to the discussion at hand; the reason why humanity is so xenophobic seems to spring from a few different sources. For starters humanity was betrayed during the Age of Strife as others have pointed out, but I personally think that’s weak tea and I’ll outline more below. Since then humanity seems to have taken on a mindset that survival of the species is more important than peace, diplomacy, and even the lives of “unimportant” individuals.

I suspect the above is a result of a healthy amount of influence from Heinlein’s Starship Troopers. Basically man is a wild animal, and if humanity lacks a moral compass beyond survival then the only possible outcome when man meets another species is war or genocide. The Imperium only values the survival of the species; it’s a self-propagating autocracy that uses religion and speciest denigrations to secure a sense of unity amongst its citizenry.

To quote Monty Python – “Supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Using that line of logic we can conclude that not only was the Emperor and humanity still sore from alien betrayal but using the threat of hostile forces from outside your sphere of comfort is a politically expedient means of keeping a populace under control. Every totalitarian state has maintained control by appealing to hostile foreigners. Add that to the threat of mutants and heretics inside the Imperium and you’ve got yourself a system of control.

There is, of course, the possibility that humanity might be killing them solely because they’re different. Humanity interprets intelligence and sapience based on our own biased criteria. There is simply no guarantee that an intelligence that evolved billions of light years away on a planet not at all like earth would have intelligence that was recognizable as sapient by our standards. Yes, even if their technology surpassed our own. The threat of the unknownable is, honestly, one of the most terrifying things we could be confronted with.

I think the reason we find the actions of the Imperium horrifying is because aliens are often presented to us in fiction as being reasonable and possessing human-like qualities in order to make them relatable. The idea of aliens as apparently hostile or uncaring with motives far beyond our understanding is an ill explored area of fiction that I’d like to be explored more. H.P. Lovecraft being the most famous example of an author who did just that, in my opinion. The fact of the matter is that the Eldar aren’t interested in peace and the expansionist policies of the Tau are at odds with the survivalist policies of the Imperium.

Tl;dr? Aliens are weird, we don't like weird things, the Imperium is staffed by jerks, but then again everyone else is a jerk too.


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

Well, in that case, I think I will leave 40k.

Bye.

more info: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=66193


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## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

Platypus5 said:


> Well, in that case, I think I will leave 40k.
> 
> Bye.


Bye.

Anyway, I think we only have to look at our actual history to see the answer for why the Imperium holds so much hatred towards aliens. Aliens, strange and new creatures with unfamiliar ways, are easy targets for our hostility. Once Humanity had the strength to really have momentum behind it and plow across the stars, it would seem natural for a person seeking greatness for the species to direct negativity towards the xeno. It is interesting to see how much of a misconception his efforts had become by the time of the year 40,000.

While it would seem that holding the Emperor with religious zeal has kept the Impirium whole for many years, you could argue what good has it accomplished?

Though I have little experience with the fluff of his conquest, that much is clear to me.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well that’s one reason but the main reason for their feeling of animosity towards aliens is that before the fall humanity did ally with a number of different races but once humanity faltered they all came in on them like vultures to consume what was left of the collapsing empire.


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

PURGE THE ALIEN

This is the IMPERIUM OF MAN. 

We don't do the whole xeno thing.


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## Burias (Jul 9, 2010)

"3. The Emperor intended to weaken Chaos. Both Humanity and Xenos feed and empower Chaos, now Humanity wasn't a problem as the whole species was being united under the Emperor's tyrannical rule and being forced to buy into the Imperial Truth, thus weakening Chaos' grip on the species. Xenos however could not so easily be controlled and continued to feed Chaos, thus this is another reason why they needed to be wiped out, to prevent the further empowerment of Chaos."

to: C.o.t.E.

But doesnt Chaos feed off of the anger, hatred and resentment that stems from humanity's war on the xenos ?


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## Pathfinder201 (Jun 26, 2010)

Well if the races don't ally i don't see how they will beat the nids. I am preety sure it says somewhere in the nid codex that it is unlikly for the galaxy to survive if the races don't unite. That should be a good enougth reason to allly. Sorry i havn't responded in a while i was in egypt and i didn't brin g the ight plug converter for my labtop.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Forging temporary alliances is not unheard of, especially against the Nids. In the BA dex Dante is forming aliances to battle the nids advancing on Baal.


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## Tensiu (Aug 15, 2009)

gally912 said:


> PURGE THE ALIEN
> 
> This is the IMPERIUM OF MAN.
> 
> We don't do the whole xeno thing.


Yeah, right. So why some of the most powerful inquisitors, especially of the ordo Malleus, were invited to the Eldar's Black Library? Because both inquisitors and Eldars know that they HAVE TO cooperate, even if only a bit, if they want to stop Chaos from devouring the galaxy.


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## manyfist (Aug 14, 2010)

Suffer not the Xeno.


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## Weirdboyz (Apr 12, 2009)

I skimmed this thread, and found that I had already received a great explanation from the good folks at Penny Arcade. 

Here it is:









Yep. If they aren't human, they can't be trusted.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Or superhuman, don't forget superhuman; they can generally be trusted too. Generally as long as they don't have spikes mind you.


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## dragonkingofthestars (May 3, 2010)

well i don't know about humnity, but i can see the Eldar and the Tau working together.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Platypus5 said:


> Times have changed. Things are worse than the age of strife


Thats quite a large assumption. I think there is a strong case for suggesting that humanity was in a worse situation during the Age of Strife than in M41.



Platypus5 said:


> Now, assuming the Emperor is reasonable and logical, he would see the need for an alliance if humanity is to survive AT ALL.


It is also a massive assumption in saying that the Emperor is reasonable and logical! But more seriously, during the Unification Period when the Emperor united Terra and allied with the Priests of Mars, his new Imperium was in an incredibly weak position, the Sol System was more dominated by Xenos than by his Imperium. Human worlds were flung across the galaxy, being preyed upon and regressed into technological dark ages. But did he try diplomacy and attempt to regain alliances and pacts with Xenos? No, he crushed them under his heel. What makes you think that he if was revived physically (which I personally hold is impossible anyway) in M41 to a stronger and more militant Imperium, he would seek petty alliances with already doomed Xenos? Lets face it, an alliance with the Tau and Eldar is not only improbable, but it would also be worthless to the Imperium.

Remember that the Imperium is highly and irreversibly Xenophobic because of the Emperor. It is so ingrained into their consciousness that they would never relinquish it, even if the Emperor suddenly had an illogical change of heart.



Burias said:


> to: C.o.t.E.
> 
> But doesnt Chaos feed off of the anger, hatred and resentment that stems from humanity's war on the xenos ?


Yes it does, but that is something which couldn't be stemmed. Many humans hate and resent each other, its natural and thus cannot be helped.

But by destroying as many Xenos species and civilisations as possible not only were their emotions and feelings no longer feeding Chaos, but it was also preventing any chance that the entire species/civilisation would actually directly devote themselves to Chaos, which many Xenos did/were (Eg. the Laer). 

It was the much better option for humanity to attempt to wipe out all Xenos. In fact there was no other real option!



Pathfinder201 said:


> Well if the races don't ally i don't see how they will beat the nids. I am preety sure it says somewhere in the nid codex that it is unlikly for the galaxy to survive if the races don't unite. That should be a good enougth reason to allly.


Take into account that the Tau Empire are a pathetically weak faction galactically. The Craftworld Eldar are desperatly clinging to existence and have no way near the amount of resources or manpower that larger factions maintain.

If the Imperium allied with these two factions it wouldn't make the slightest difference at all in regards to the enroaching Tyranids, the arising Necrons, the Infinite hordes of Chaos etc.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

@CotE: True enough, a straight alliance as is would ultimately solve nothing.

But what about sharing knowledge? If the empy was willing to sanction the implementation and retro engineering of the (far superior) weapons of the tau and eldar, would that not make a difference? Think Imperial Guard with pulse rifles and cringe, servant of Chaos!

But ultimately, I cringe on realizing that the Imperium cannot win.


...wait, I`m not on their side... HOORAY! :yahoo:


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> But what about sharing knowledge? If the empy was willing to sanction the implementation and retro engineering of the (far superior) weapons of the tau and eldar, would that not make a difference? Think Imperial Guard with pulse rifles and cringe, servant of Chaos!


if he did that then the mech would revolt+ they weren't advance during his life.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> @CotE: True enough, a straight alliance as is would ultimately solve nothing.
> 
> But what about sharing knowledge? If the empy was willing to sanction the implementation and retro engineering of the (far superior) weapons of the tau and eldar, would that not make a difference? Think Imperial Guard with pulse rifles and cringe, servant of Chaos!
> 
> ...


But obviously that would never happen because of the Adeptus Mechanicus. So im holding to the view that an alliance between the Imperium, Craftworld Eldar and Tau Empire would bring the Imperium no advantage on a galactic scale whatsoever.


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