# Are the Eldar Influencing the Heresy? (Spoilers)



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

SPOILERS BUTCHER'S NAILS

Just listened to _Butcher's Nails_. Is it just me or did it seem like the Eldar purposely drew in Lorgar and Angron?

I mean at first, we think that the Eldar are there to prevent Angron from being turned into the "Son of the Blood God." But it doesn't even seem they had a strong enough force to kill him swiftly. Of course you could also say maybe it was just a course of bad luck...

But at the end, the Last Eldar opens his damn mouth to conspiring Lorgar of all people to tell that he will become a fricken Daemon Prince.

Why did he tell him that? Was he really thinking that the one person who had started the Heresy was going to prevent a strong ally like one of the Khorne God's servants?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

It could be that it would change nothing; Angron was well on his way to becoming "the blood gods son" and perhaps the alien knew that. Maybe he was just thinking aloud. Maybe he was sent on that mission to deliver that message, and the Eldar were attempting to force it. It could be any number of things, though I don't know how the Dark Eldar factor in.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Eldar instigated the whole Heresy just for piss and giggles, just like when they created Slaanesh, they just do it for a bit of a jape.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I haven't read "Butcher's Nail", but the answer is yes.

The Eldar tried to help Fulgrim. 

The Eldar tried to (I'm still getting through Ferrous's story in _Primarchs_) guide Ferrous.

There's an Eldar on the Cabal that tries to guide Alpharius.

So, yeah, Eldar have had their hands on quite a few of the Primarchs.


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## sadLor (Jan 18, 2012)

I hope in future fluff that they expand on the Dark Eldar's role in the HH...if they had one at all. I would think the DE would be the one faction that WANTS the HH to happen. What happens without the HH? The Imperium gets stronger and takes over the galaxy... the Emperor completes his webway project and invades the domain of the DE with 18 primarchs, millions of space marines and trillions of troops.

Is there actual fluff regarding the DE and their activities during the HH?


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I wonder if it is the Dark Eldar. Because in a sense you are right, the Imperium is about to rule the Imperial Webway and they could possibly anhilate the Dark Eldar realm. However, shouldn't they be in fear of their souls that Slaanesh would consume them? After all, he wants nothing more.


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## SonofMalice (Feb 5, 2012)

Just read the Butcher's nails and I thought that the group Angron and Lorgar fought WAS DE. They sounded like it, they acted like it, and the description of the bridge of the mothership as similar to "Curzes bedchamber" what with corpses and all seemd very DE to me. Or am I just confused...


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## King Gary (Aug 13, 2009)

Blue text makes my head go funny


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

SonofMalice said:


> Just read the Butcher's nails and I thought that the group Angron and Lorgar fought WAS DE. They sounded like it, they acted like it, and the description of the bridge of the mothership as similar to "Curzes bedchamber" what with corpses and all seemd very DE to me. Or am I just confused...


Nope, you hit the nail (sorry) on the head. Those WERE Dark Eldar.

My theory is that they attacked the Conqueror because it was Angron and he was the leader of the World Eaters. The World Eaters were being held together by strings and hopes, and without Angron they would be nigh uncontrollable. If they took Angron down, it could have eliminated, or at least vastly reduced the threat posed by the World Eaters legion. Him being the future son of the blood god may have had little to do with the attacks. 

As far as why they were helping the Imperial war effort, they probably weren't helping humanity so much as trying to save their own asses. An Imperium controlled by the greatest mortal champions of chaos that the galaxy had ever seen was probably not viewed as conducive to their prolonged existence.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

sadLor said:


> Is there actual fluff regarding the DE and their activities during the HH?


No. The Dark Eldar timeline in the codex gives the following entry for M31-2: "In the wake of the fall, the unrepentant Eldar hidden within the webway consolidate their power. The next millennium sees the port-cities and sovereign realms of the labyrinth dimension grow steadily in size and influence, and Commorragh becomes a sprawling realm unto itself. The Dark City thrives under the oppressive rule of the noble houses that lurk at its heart."



ckcrawford said:


> I wonder if it is the Dark Eldar. Because in a sense you are right, the Imperium is about to rule the Imperial Webway and they could possibly anhilate the Dark Eldar realm. However, shouldn't they be in fear of their souls that Slaanesh would consume them? After all, he wants nothing more.


The Craftworld Eldar are just as likely to want to keep humanity out of the webway as the Dark Eldar would. However, how would either faction be aware of the Emperor's secret project? No one in the Imperium, not even the Primarchs were aware of what the Emperor was doing. Of course the only method that springs to mind by which anyone else could be aware is by psychic means, though I think I am right in saying that psychic abilities were very quickly outlawed in Commorragh and the innate psychic ability of the Dark Kin had atrophied (although whether or not that occured very soon after the Fall or not is unknown).

It would be interesting to see AD-B's thoughts on the matter, and for him to confirm whether or not the Eldar in _Butcher's Nails_ were Craftworlders or Dark Kin.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

The bit that's confusing me

If the eldar were dark eldar (with little psychic powers), how did they know that Angron ends up and the blood god's right hand man?
Also if they weren't psychic, why were they complaining about there being two primarchs? - I got the impression that they were surprised that they found Lorgar fighting alongside Angron when they'd thought it to be just Angron there for the taking. I thought they used powers to divine his location/situation

But if the eldar were craftworld, why did the ship look like Curze's bedchamber?


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

The eldar have always had it out for Angron
When he landed on his planet after being scattered by chaos they were waiting there to kill him. Fortunatly even as a baby he went all Hulk on their asses......


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Shattertheirsky said:


> The eldar have always had it out for Angron
> When he landed on his planet after being scattered by chaos they were waiting there to kill him. Fortunatly even as a baby he went all Hulk on their asses......


 
Hi - where's this from?

I'd like to read it :biggrin:


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Dont forget that khorne is the antethesis of slaneesh, which may have something to do with it.


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

'During the Scattering, Angron was thrown to a civilized human world far from Terra. He plummeted into the icy mountains of that planet, and not long after a slaver found him, and a scene of carnage. Surrounding the wounded young Primarch were the corpses of numerous Xenos. Imperial scholars would later theorise that they were Eldar who had foreseen the great bloodshed that Angron would cause and had tried unsuccessfully to stop him' - Good old lexicanum

I'm not sure but I think its mentioned in after Da'shea


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Shattertheirsky said:


> I'm not sure but I think its mentioned in after Da'shea


Its from their IA article:

_"...however it came to pass, it is known that Angron was discovered by a slaver who chanced upon the bleeding figure of the Primarch, surrounded by scores of alien corpses, high in the northern mountains. History does not record to what race these aliens belonged, but many Imperial scholars believe them to have been Eldar, perhaps attacking the Primarch with some foreknowledge of what the future held for him. Angron had been grievously wounded, but was alive and, seeing that all his wounds were to the fore, the slaver realised that Angron must be a formidable warrior."_


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

^^ thanks for the correction


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Its from their IA article:
> 
> _"...however it came to pass, it is known that Angron was discovered by a slaver who chanced upon the bleeding figure of the Primarch, surrounded by scores of alien corpses, high in the northern mountains. History does not record to what race these aliens belonged, but many Imperial scholars believe them to have been Eldar, perhaps attacking the Primarch with some foreknowledge of what the future held for him. Angron had been grievously wounded, but was alive and, seeing that all his wounds were to the fore, the slaver realised that Angron must be a formidable warrior."_


 
Thanks 

Although what does 'wounds to the fore' mean?


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## CarnifexQt3 (Nov 28, 2011)

All his wounds were in the front; he had no wounds on his back, such as would have occurred if he had turned and and run.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

CarnifexQt3 said:


> All his wounds were in the front; he had no wounds on his back, such as would have occurred if he had turned and and run.


Thanks :biggrin:


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Gret79 said:


> The bit that's confusing me
> 
> If the eldar were dark eldar (with little psychic powers), how did they know that Angron ends up and the blood god's right hand man?
> Also if they weren't psychic, why were they complaining about there being two primarchs? - I got the impression that they were surprised that they found Lorgar fighting alongside Angron when they'd thought it to be just Angron there for the taking. I thought they used powers to divine his location/situation
> ...


The DE codex talks about the DE losing their psychic abilities over the millenniums after Tge Fall.

The GC happened just after The Fall, though, right? Their abilities haven't had time to wither yet.


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