# A girls take on 40K



## Warhammerlady (Jan 10, 2013)

Hello

Just uploaded a video on my channel answering the question: what's a girls take on 40K. 






Cheers ^^


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

A bunch of nice points. 

I didn't know what to expect when I clicked on this but I found it to be full of a bunch of good points. And an undertone of apparently you knowing a bunch of guy who equate the things you do to "she does stuff because she's a girl" instead of "does stuff because she enjoys it".


----------



## Blackwire (Sep 9, 2012)

This is quite interesting. I'm not sure what would be classed as super nerdy, but I'd feel I'm somewhere in that territory. I own a small Lizardmen army, and yes, aesthetic before weapons. When I was about 6 years of age I wanted to be a "dinosaur archaeologist", because I didn't know it was called palaeontology.  I think that fuelled my want of an army of Lizardmen. It's what each individual connects with.

I'll spare details, but I can name many separate types of weapon. Even made up ones. But it's all part of the background/immersion, in my opinion. It's definitely not the selling point. They're all armies. They all have weapons, mostly.

On your choice of Lizardmen, if I was going to highlight particular armies as being a girl's choice: Elves, Eldar, maybe Sisters of Battle. Dinosaurs are bit more universal. At least that's what I'd like to think.

And painting or gaming? Both equally fill me with a sense of fulfilment. It's a sensation of, "I did that!" I love painting, but I'm unfortunately way too lax to paint as much as I game. :blush:

Finally, I think girls are upheld within our community because the ratio is a tad in the male dominance. Not because we wish it to be so. Therefore, girls who like Warhammer are kinda something sacred. The why is the tough one to answer. Maybe it is simply the attraction of something familiar in something we almost expect not to find it in. I hope that doesn't sound too bad.

Thanks for sharing this insight, it's been very interesting. Oh, if I were judging painting, usually it'd come down to whether or not it really appeals to me. I don't really like to critique unless specifically asked. That could be the same with others. But I'd say the volumes of comments on that so-so thread you saw would probably be down to wanting to keep said girl in the community. Something sacred.

Yet again, thanks for the insight. It has been most educational.


----------



## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

Glad someone realized that we aren't all just "toy" playing adult and that this hobby has a lot more dimensions to it. Hopefully, in turn it goes the other way with the stereotypes about girls in this hobby and the reasons they get into it.

Funny thing about the painting, my gf is not the greatest with paints and since I can paint pretty decently, she has asked me on occasion to paint her nails. At first I found it odd, but the more and more I think about it, if I can come up with some pretty cool paint scheme or some interesting pattern, I definitely wouldn't mind giving it a try. After all, a nail is not much different than the flat curved surface of a space marine's shoulder plate.

PS. Pretty good painting for any wargamer. Male or female.


----------



## RAM21201 (May 8, 2009)

I used to work for a certain hobbby company (cough cough) lol and i did see how women are treated just a tad bit differently, why i dont really know. i mean when ever i play against a girl i just see fellow hobbyist who loves the sci-fi/ fantasy world. As for nerdy? how can one do what we do without having just a little bit of a nerd in us lol, be it painting, gaming, converting or being a background junkie ( guilty  ).


----------



## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

Wut? Everyone knows girl gamers are a myth  i'll put the clear video evidence down to eldar trickery.

In sieriousness, gender disparity has not been a big deal to me. Obviously the ratio is noticeable, but generally if i meet a girl who likes 40k i talk to them like i talk to people who like 40k. Also in my expirience, girls are much better painters than guys. 

Girls are taught to be perfect, boys are taught to be strong. Therefore girl takes tine to perfect the model where the boy might not have. Although i put most of the differences down to age (15-17).


----------



## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

Interesting video, it's nice to see someone reconsider their thoughts about the Hobby and the gamers. Even if they don't embrace it like you did, I'd love to see more people understand that it's not just toys for kids.

What you said about painting reminds me of a couple of friends: he owns a Dark Eldar army and is really into the rules/army building and playing, while she paints the models and really enjoys it. And as a bonus they can play and paint at the same time 
(on a side note my appreciation of her paintjob might have been affected by the "boobs effect", I'll give it a second look, thanks for pointing it out)

And Chaos is such a girls army, I mean they have...What am I saying? Welcome to Eye of Terror! Have a cup of tea and lets talk about burning stuff.


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Regarding the "toy" thing; it's not your gender who think that way, everyone thinks that way. Everyone has to look at the things they choose not to do, and validate to themselves why they chose to do something else instead. For example the "typical" geek such as I'm sure most of the population of these forums is made up of, will think, when they see a drunken rugby/football player "Oh, he's such an idiot for being a jock and going out and getting wasted all the time". People who see cars as a way of getting from A to B will look at people who tool their rides out with custom paint, uber-stereos, LEDs and a huge exhaust pipe and think "Wow, what a waste of money, I bet the guy's a complete tool". In the same way, people who walk past a GW think "Complete geeks, need to grow up and get a life".

We need to justify why we do the things we do, and why we don't do the things we don't do. We generally go about this by dividing the world into people who do the same things we do (sensible people) and people who don't do the things we do (idiots/crazy people/chavs/jocks/whatever). Everyone does it to a greater or lesser degree, and it's a basic function of our psychology. Women looking at people playing 40k don't have a monopoly on it by any means.

Regarding the painting aspect; some people are more creative and "arty" and some people are less. It's fairly gender neutral. I don't consider myself arty at all - I can't draw or sketch for shit. If you ask me to draw a person I'll give you a circle, a rectangle, and 4 other rectangles with some hands and shoes on the ends. Hair if I'm feeling ambitious. I'm just awful. However it threw me recently when someone said "wow, you're really arty" when I showed them one of my armies. I'm not, and I know I'm not. I don't consider painting to be an art form. I see it as a necessary step to getting my army on the table and playing games. But to other people, even that is considered a talent. Of course many other people see painting as an end in itself, and from what I've seen, there is no difference between the sexes there. An equal proportion of the male gamers I've met have been "artist" types as female gamers. I've not noticed more women preferring to paint than play, but I suppose the numbers might be skewed since painters rarely come down to clubs and stores just to paint and not to game.

About the boobs thing, it's true. You can see it as sweet or pathetic or whatever, but it's real. Women get more condescension than men in this hobby, whether it's during a game, while standing around chatting in-store, online, or in competitions. This can be either good natured (you're an amazing...) or malicious (you obviously can't play decently because you're a girl...). I imagine both schools of thought piss women off equally - it would if I was in their shoes. Which is a shame, because it means genuine comments can sometimes be swept away with the crap, and it's one of the main barriers I see to female inclusion in the hobby.

On army picks, I will say that Orks *is* an unusual one since they are possibly the single most "Alpha Male" army in either system. The whole "Waaagh!" thing and aggressive playstyle lend themselves naturally to people with lots of testosterone. Other armies lend themselves to the stereotype of "girl friendly" but I don't buy into it. I've seen female Tomb King, Tyranid, Necron and Dwarf players just as often as Elves, Eldar or Sisters.


----------



## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

I have three friends who are women that are into 40K. The only one of them who is actually playing has a Tau Empire army, one likes Dark Eldar but haven't started playing yet and the third is just into the videogames but was asking around for army ideas if she started playing. She seems to be leaning towards Tau too.

I'd say, Sethis, that based on my most immediate players, gender does seem to influence choice of first army. Only as a part of it though. Personality is even more important, and there is overlap between genders. There are exceptions to everything.

Mostly I got into 40K as a poor man's substitute for a believable sci-fi universe to battle in. 40K was never believable. But it would do. There still is no miniature strategy Sci-Fi game out there with the suspension of disbelief of, say, Star Trek. So it will still have to make do. Over time I've warmed up to it. But that still didn't stop me from jumping on to the first completely believable race as soon as it was announced (Tau)

Most other games and stories have a token comic relief. I guess 40K has a token serious relief!

But that is a different discussion.


----------



## Silens (Dec 26, 2010)

My girlfriend collects High Elves but I collect Daemons, World Eaters and Beastmen.


----------



## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

warsmith7752 said:


> Girls are taught to be perfect, boys are taught to be strong.


So in 40K terms that's what...Men Are From Fenris, Women Are From Chemos?


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Svartmetall said:


> So in 40K terms that's what...Men Are From Fenris, Women Are From Biel Tan?


Fixed that for you. :laugh:


----------



## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

My fiance actively encourages me to pursue geeky stuff, and she LOVES 40k... but I see through her. It's nothing more than a clever ruse. She just knows 40k scares other girls away. Thanks to this hobby, jealousy in my relationship is a thing of the past! Thanks, Games Workshop! =D


----------



## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

maelstrom48 said:


> Thanks to this hobby, jealousy in my relationship is a thing of the past! Thanks, Games Workshop!


That's an amusing and effective way to look at it, I'll have to try it out on my wife :laugh:

Honestly though, I think I have yet to actually meet in person a female 40K/WHF player...


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

As others have said your thoughts on the subject are interesting. A lot of us I imagine struggle with how others view the hobby and therefore those of us who partake in it as well. It is as you have said seen as "toys", which I think is a culture shift that has happened since I don't think it used to be viewed that way as much. I've been involved in the hobby since I was 8ish, so thats over 15 years and its not something I tell people about, my best mate, who I've known for 5 years still doesn't know and I've told him a lot of stuff. Why haven't I? Because he doesn't need to know, he would take the piss a bit which I can handle, we take the piss all the time. I know he wouldn't be interested so there is no point in bothering him with it. In contrast there are other people who I have known for far less time who I have told for a variety of reasons. I haven't told the girl I'm seeing and I don't think I will until it comes up naturally, no reason for her to know basically.

I can fully understand your initial thoughts towards the hobby, as it's ones that, if I had no knowledge of it I would probably have if I came across the Hobby today. Admitting you're wrong is admirable, not many people, guys or girls would do that. Hell I probably wouldn't.

The idea of "girls like painting" or "of course you pick that army you're a girl" has as much logic to it as an African choosing to play Salamanders due to the color of their skin. Since when did our choice of our army define us as a person? If thats the case what the fuck is wrong with people who play Nurgle or Slaanesh? People who make those kind of snap judgements are muppets frankly and are one of the reasons I don't generally partake in the social side of the hobby. Lizardmen, a girls army? 7 foot tall killer lizards are girly because they aren't predominately painted in dark colors... tell that to a poison arrow frog. Or Vash, since you know Slaanesh has a lot of pink.

As for girls getting more attention "the boob effect" is an obvious reason and frankly is understandable, just like a straight male ballet dancer gets a shit load of attention i.e. there aren't many and the vast majority of the population don't want them to go anywhere so they make them feel welcome... overly so it seems.

Your accent is very interesting btw, its rather Irish sounding if I had to put a label on it, you don't sound like many Swedes I've heard. Just an observation.


----------



## Durant (Aug 24, 2011)

> did see how women are treated just a tad bit differently


Every male Dominated Industry my friend, not just the hobby industry lol

You get used to it and the novelty wears off once another comes along and the cycle repeats.


----------



## Chosen of Malal (Nov 5, 2012)

Jacobite, I happened to choose Chaos because of the three tentacles I have, thanks very much!


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Jacobite said:


> Since when did our choice of our army define us as a person? If thats the case what the fuck is wrong with people who play Nurgle or Slaanesh?


:laugh:

:goodpost:


----------



## Charandris (Nov 27, 2012)

I think that its great that someone is highlighting all of those points. Not really sure where to start, but im certainly sharing that about now to hopefully open peoples minds about the hobby. Not just girls, but all people who might turn there noses up after a brief glance at the hobby. Not to force it upo them, but just to try and shae it because they may well be missing out.


----------



## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

Jacobite said:


> Since when did our choice of our army define us as a person?


The more I read about the Iron Warriors and Perturabo, the more I see similarities in thinking patterns, smalls habits and stuff...for an army I picked seven years ago. Is something wrong with me?


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Dies Irae said:


> The more I read about the Iron Warriors and Perturabo, the more I see similarities in thinking patterns, smalls habits and stuff...for an army I picked seven years ago. Is something wrong with me?


Not necessarily. I've been playing Eldar for 15 years now and find myself experiencing hobbies/work as something akin to "Paths" where I obtain a good degree of skill and then drop it in order to pursue something else, and sometimes go back years later to brush up on it and find that it all comes back to me.

The real question is whether the fluff writers are simply encapsulating aspects of real life on paper, or whether reading the fluff has actually changed your behaviour...


----------



## Warhammerlady (Jan 10, 2013)

Blackwire said:


> On your choice of Lizardmen, if I was going to highlight particular armies as being a girl's choice: Elves, Eldar, maybe Sisters of Battle. Dinosaurs are bit more universal. At least that's what I'd like to think.
> 
> And painting or gaming? Both equally fill me with a sense of fulfilment. It's a sensation of, "I did that!" I love painting, but I'm unfortunately way too lax to paint as much as I game. :blush:
> 
> ...


:shok: Dinosaurs! You might have just explained to me one of the reasons I liked Lizardmen more than I though colors and nice minis might explain. I have just accepted the fact they they are lizards cause of their name but in reality I have always disliked the common iguana lizard type. But dinosaurs...I was obsessed with dinosaurs as a kid! Thanks, that was a fun insight! :grin:

As for the lack of girls. I think you're very accurate when you say that it's something sacred and most guys I have met and gamed with have been oh, so polite and very nice. Way nicer than any other guys I've spent time with. At first I always though that is was because they became so overwhelmed with a "gamer-girl" and just wanted to get into my pants but then, after some years in the hobby, I more often find that they enjoy having girls around as well since just hanging out with dudes gets boring and it's always nice getting other opinions. It's the same for me, after hanging out with lots of girls I usually like hanging out with guys for a while since guys and girls in general behave differently.


----------



## Warhammerlady (Jan 10, 2013)

asianavatar said:


> Glad someone realized that we aren't all just "toy" playing adult and that this hobby has a lot more dimensions to it. Hopefully, in turn it goes the other way with the stereotypes about girls in this hobby and the reasons they get into it.
> 
> Funny thing about the painting, my gf is not the greatest with paints and since I can paint pretty decently, she has asked me on occasion to paint her nails. At first I found it odd, but the more and more I think about it, if I can come up with some pretty cool paint scheme or some interesting pattern, I definitely wouldn't mind giving it a try. After all, a nail is not much different than the flat curved surface of a space marine's shoulder plate.
> 
> PS. Pretty good painting for any wargamer. Male or female.


Thank you  

On a side note: Once I had a friend who's boyfriend painted her nails and all of us other girl were quite jealous since we found that he cared enough for her to do something that would most likely be frowned upon by other guys. It was sweet. So painting her nails would must likely be good for you


----------



## Warhammerlady (Jan 10, 2013)

Dies Irae said:


> Interesting video, it's nice to see someone reconsider their thoughts about the Hobby and the gamers. Even if they don't embrace it like you did, I'd love to see more people understand that it's not just toys for kids.
> 
> What you said about painting reminds me of a couple of friends: he owns a Dark Eldar army and is really into the rules/army building and playing, while she paints the models and really enjoys it. And as a bonus they can play and paint at the same time
> (on a side note my appreciation of her paintjob might have been affected by the "boobs effect", I'll give it a second look, thanks for pointing it out)
> ...


Oh that sounds brilliant I love burning things. Throw in an explosion as well and you made my day


----------



## Warhammerlady (Jan 10, 2013)

Sethis said:


> Regarding the "toy" thing; it's not your gender who think that way, everyone thinks that way. Everyone has to look at the things they choose not to do, and validate to themselves why they chose to do something else instead. For example the "typical" geek such as I'm sure most of the population of these forums is made up of, will think, when they see a drunken rugby/football player "Oh, he's such an idiot for being a jock and going out and getting wasted all the time". People who see cars as a way of getting from A to B will look at people who tool their rides out with custom paint, uber-stereos, LEDs and a huge exhaust pipe and think "Wow, what a waste of money, I bet the guy's a complete tool". In the same way, people who walk past a GW think "Complete geeks, need to grow up and get a life".
> 
> We need to justify why we do the things we do, and why we don't do the things we don't do. We generally go about this by dividing the world into people who do the same things we do (sensible people) and people who don't do the things we do (idiots/crazy people/chavs/jocks/whatever). Everyone does it to a greater or lesser degree, and it's a basic function of our psychology. Women looking at people playing 40k don't have a monopoly on it by any means.
> 
> ...


Those are some very fair points! Thanks for sharing your views (that goes for all of you who answered actually). 

For your opinions about painting: I always sucked at painting when we had art class and all things equal to that. I was brilliant at copying already made art but when it came down to drawing something on my own I did just like you - a basic circle and then some random lines. Colors for me have been even worse, I've never figured out how to blend colors so all the art I made for school looked like something from kindergarden. But painting warhammer minis turned out be different. I was actually quite descent after a couple of goes and not because I was all arty and stuff but, actually I have no idea why. Ofc I have practiced like a mad person so I'm no natural. However I do view painting as a talent. As well as sculpting green stuff (which I suck at) or assembling models in fun and unique ways (mine always looks like the ones on the box). 
And yes, I think is skewed view. I think for example that some girls like to go down to stores and show of their, maybe not so good looking minis, and giggling a bit just to get the attention whilst a guy who paints nicely doesn't show off cause in reality he probably wouldn't get that much attention since he's a guy and most likely the others will be a tad jealous? 

The boob factor, yeah it's pathetic. Though I mostly find that guys who already have a significant other treat me with respect and as if I was one of them, or however you want to view it, and so do most single guys however single guys that are extremely nerdy tend look at me like they haven't had sex in months (which some of them probably haven't) and it's not very nice. It's happened whilst being in a GW store for example and it really makes me want to leave and come back later. Luckily I myself don't encounter it all that often 

Two friends of mine have minis as well, one never started playing but bought some and she choose Wood Elves since she likes Lotr and is very outdoorsy. The other one likes Skaven and Necrons. As I said I don't believe that there are any armies that are especially aimed at girls and vice versa.


----------



## Blackwire (Sep 9, 2012)

Warhammerlady said:


> :shok: Dinosaurs! You might have just explained to me one of the reasons I liked Lizardmen more than I though colors and nice minis might explain. I have just accepted the fact they they are lizards cause of their name but in reality I have always disliked the common iguana lizard type. But dinosaurs...I was obsessed with dinosaurs as a kid! Thanks, that was a fun insight! :grin:
> 
> As for the lack of girls. I think you're very accurate when you say that it's something sacred and most guys I have met and gamed with have been oh, so polite and very nice. Way nicer than any other guys I've spent time with. At first I always though that is was because they became so overwhelmed with a "gamer-girl" and just wanted to get into my pants but then, after some years in the hobby, I more often find that they enjoy having girls around as well since just hanging out with dudes gets boring and it's always nice getting other opinions. It's the same for me, after hanging out with lots of girls I usually like hanging out with guys for a while since guys and girls in general behave differently.


Well, Dinosaur means "terrible lizard".  _Jurassic Park_, I'm sure, is the sole reason that my love of Dinosaurs was cemented so firmly. Inaccuracies be damned, my suspension of disbelief with that movie means that I'd readily believe a Velociraptor to be 6 ft. tall and also explains why I can't get used to the concept of dinosaurs having had feathers. I'm sure I can't be the only one who was corrupted by the awesomeness of that movie. 

While I fight the urge to insert _Operation Genesis_ into my PC, thanks for hitting the nail on the head with what I was saying. It's very nice to have some mixed company. Especially in a hobby where about >95% of the audience are male.

There is one other contributing factor in Lizardmen that would make them not-so-stereotypically a female choice. Aztecs. Or anything of around that era/area. Mayans included. I'd be honestly interesting to know what your take on this is. Whether that would be a contributing factor in why you like them? Either way, I hope I've given you some fuel to counter the "lizards are a girly choice" banter. :grin:


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Warhammerlady said:


> Though I mostly find that guys who already have a significant other treat me with respect and as if I was one of them, or however you want to view it, and so do most single guys however single guys that are extremely nerdy tend look at me like they haven't had sex in months (which some of them probably haven't) and it's not very nice.


Point, something I've noticed as well. The worst offenders for treating girls inappropriately tend to be guys who never have girlfriends. Guys who have had long term relationships are generally better because they don't have the shock and awe factor of someone with a different chromosome to them...


----------



## Warhammerlady (Jan 10, 2013)

Jacobite said:


> As others have said your thoughts on the subject are interesting. A lot of us I imagine struggle with how others view the hobby and therefore those of us who partake in it as well. It is as you have said seen as "toys", which I think is a culture shift that has happened since I don't think it used to be viewed that way as much. I've been involved in the hobby since I was 8ish, so thats over 15 years and its not something I tell people about, my best mate, who I've known for 5 years still doesn't know and I've told him a lot of stuff. Why haven't I? Because he doesn't need to know, he would take the piss a bit which I can handle, we take the piss all the time. I know he wouldn't be interested so there is no point in bothering him with it. In contrast there are other people who I have known for far less time who I have told for a variety of reasons. I haven't told the girl I'm seeing and I don't think I will until it comes up naturally, no reason for her to know basically.
> 
> I can fully understand your initial thoughts towards the hobby, as it's ones that, if I had no knowledge of it I would probably have if I came across the Hobby today. Admitting you're wrong is admirable, not many people, guys or girls would do that. Hell I probably wouldn't.
> 
> ...


Thank you 
I very much agree with you on the whole there's no real logic in thinking that girls would like an army better than another or that we would enjoy painting more than anyone else. 

I myself sometimes struggle with how others view the hobby, it doesn't make me feel geeky and and outcast though, mostly annoyed cause I know people are being just as narrow minded as I was. I have lots of very girly "friends" who love shopping, drinking lattes and all that and when I try to explain to them that I enjoy painting plastic figurines and acting out battles in my spare time they usually look at me in a very condescending way.
Though I think it's important to not be ashamed of what we like and what makes us satisfied - people who thinks ill of that are usually not worth hanging out with 

Irish huh? Well, what do you know ^^ I don't sound like most other swedes that I've heard so far either


----------



## Warhammerlady (Jan 10, 2013)

Blackwire said:


> There is one other contributing factor in Lizardmen that would make them not-so-stereotypically a female choice. Aztecs. Or anything of around that era/area. Mayans included. I'd be honestly interesting to know what your take on this is. Whether that would be a contributing factor in why you like them? Either way, I hope I've given you some fuel to counter the "lizards are a girly choice" banter. :grin:


Yeah, I see you point. I quite like the lizardmens adornments but I never cared for mayans or aztecs. However the "Eldorado" movie I very much liked and was utterly fascinated by the big golden city and yeah it might be contributing factor number two. ^^ That and the fact that I think painting gold is really fun cause it usually makes the modell "pop" just a bit more than others


----------



## Blackwire (Sep 9, 2012)

Warhammerlady said:


> Yeah, I see you point. I quite like the lizardmens adornments but I never cared for mayans or aztecs. However the "Eldorado" movie I very much liked and was utterly fascinated by the big golden city and yeah it might be contributing factor number two. ^^ That and the fact that I think painting gold is really fun cause it usually makes the modell "pop" just a bit more than others


Thanks for the input.  Their native jewellery is quite a thing to look at. Either way, they are a very cool army.


----------



## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

maelstrom48 said:


> My fiance actively encourages me to pursue geeky stuff, and she LOVES 40k... but I see through her. It's nothing more than a clever ruse. She just knows 40k scares other girls away. Thanks to this hobby, jealousy in my relationship is a thing of the past! Thanks, Games Workshop! =D



I get the feeling my wife encourages me for the same reasons! Especially when she once said "I love how nerdy you are with your 40k. I know I never have to worry about you going out and cheating on me!"

Um..thanks? lol


----------



## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

> The more I read about the Iron Warriors and Perturabo, the more I see similarities in thinking patterns, smalls habits and stuff...for an army I picked seven years ago. Is something wrong with me


Maybe, its the fact that you are smart, cunning, strategic, patient, everything you do has a purpose and you don't rush into things. Or it could be that you really do like to utterly destroy things, break peoples' will and use people to meet your final goals. In that case, than maybe there is something wrong with you. Haha

In terms of art, I think there are different sides of it. I am a pretty good painter, but only recently have started improving my free hand stuff. I can't green stuff the greatest, but I can kit bash some pretty awesome vehicles. Maybe, its the math background in me that makes me gravitate more to the more structured mechanical creations as opposed to the more free hand side.


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

asianavatar said:


> In terms of art, I think there are different sides of it. I am a pretty good painter, but only recently have started improving my free hand stuff. I can't green stuff the greatest, but I can kit bash some pretty awesome vehicles. Maybe, its the math background in me that makes me gravitate more to the more structured mechanical creations as opposed to the more free hand side.


I don't think it's the math background, I think some people are able to generate something from nothing (painting, sculpting) and others generate something new from already existing pieces (converting, scratch building).

I certainly know that put me near a huge bitz box and I'll be happy as a pig in shit, but plonk a flat surface in front of me and tell me to paint freehand and I'll stare at you, shuffle on my chair, and after 5 hours painstaking work produce one of these bad boys:


----------



## Creator of Chaos (Feb 8, 2012)

Warhammerlady said:


> I myself sometimes struggle with how others view the hobby, it doesn't make me feel geeky and and outcast though, mostly annoyed cause I know people are being just as narrow minded as I was. I have lots of very girly "friends" who love shopping, drinking lattes and all that and when I try to explain to them that I enjoy painting plastic figurines and acting out battles in my spare time they usually look at me in a very condescending way.
> Though I think it's important to not be ashamed of what we like and what makes us satisfied - people who thinks ill of that are usually not worth hanging out with


Honestly you shouldn't worry about what other's think and just enjoy what you enjoy (Which it very much sounds like you do). I stopped caring about what other thought of me back in high school and just done my own thing. If people liked what I did and wanted to get involved I would be happy to help them. If not I lost nothing anyway. People like what they like and everyones different and unless its physically harming you what I or anyone else does shouldn't effect you. 

I really dont understand sometimes why people feel that there opionions and what they like are more important then what you like. I think its part lack of understanding and part ego but I'll never really know as I'm no psycoligist  XD. Anyway its good to have few more girls in the hobby. I for one enjoy variety and a different perspective that girls sometimes bring in and its nice to see you enjoying game. Its hobby everyone can enjoy and nobody has the right to be condescending about it or give someone funny looks because of different hormones and I think it would be marvollous if a few more girls took to the game. I'd probably get run for my money on the battlefield lol.

I have 1 question tho. Aisde from deamons which I saw in your blog and the lizardman you talk about here what armies do you play?


----------



## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

You do make a lot of good points about how women are treated in this hobby community. The rarity of having a woman that likes the hobby is something we want to keep around. Many of us have girlfriends or wives that encourage and tolerate the hobby but few actually enjoy it. 

Although I seem to be the only one that wants to see your ork models. You need a thread showing off your models. I have loved orks since 1994 and nicely painted ones are things I want to see.


----------



## Commala (Jan 13, 2013)

My wife and I were just having a conversation at breakfast yesterday about how this hobby is viewed by many. I have painted and occasionally played with toy soldiers for about two decades now, and my wife discovered this was one of my hobbies within the first month of our relationship. She had never even heard of Warhammer before she met me, and was amazed at this entire industry of a hobby had existed without her ever hearing about it.

She was very supportive of my hobby right from the start, to the extent that she takes photos of my finished models with her phone and shows them to her bemused friends and family. She was amazed when I explained that for many people it is a 'hidden hobby' due to the geek factor associated with it, although she could understand it a bit better when I took her to a GW store and she could observe some of the more eccentric hobbyists there.

Anyway, after our discussion we wondered whether the disdain with which many women look upon mens' hobbies is due to the fact that women are expected to put down their toys at a certain age whereas men continue playing with them all their life, in one way or another. For example, it is socially acceptable to see a 5 year old girl playing with a Barbie but not so much a 25 year old doing the same. By that age, the woman in question is 'supposed' to be playing with either her own real child or those of her friends and family.

A 5 year old boy, however, can pick up a football and still be playing with it for another fifty years without even a second glance. The social myth persists that men never grow out of their boyhood, and the kinds of hobbies we choose seem sometimes to reinforce this idea in certain narrow minds. The same narrow minds, it should be said, that think a woman should never be near such a hobby as Warhammer and should rather be focusing on more 'mature' endeavours.

When you take a lack of confidence and social norms out of the equation you realise that people can get interested in all manner of passtimes at any point in their lives. Case in point, my wife ended our conversation by saying that she fancies trying her hand at painting a Vampire Count miniature after seeing the gallery section of the new army book. And, funnily enough, I would never have thought I would be painting her nails and yet I end up doing it quite regularly.


----------



## Routine (Sep 25, 2011)

^That's a Hell of a first post Commala!

Oh, and + Rep for having the stones to admit that you paint your wife's nails :grin:


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Routine said:


> ^That's a Hell of a first post Commala!
> 
> Oh, and + Rep for having the stones to admit that you paint your wife's nails :grin:


I painted my fiancés nails, but she wasn't paying attention so I did "L" and "R" on her respective thumbs and when she asked why I said "So you can actually give me directions for a change". Needless to say she wasn't as amused as I was...


----------



## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Routine said:


> Oh, and + Rep for having the stones to admit that you paint your wife's nails :grin:


I regularly paint my wife's nails. Easy good book points :laugh:

Its not often you see female gamers. I have played against maybe 3. But I have seen a few more than that. From my experience they have just a wide gaming skill as males and also I have seen awesome paint jobs and poor paint jobs from lady gamers.

I remember playing a woman at a local clubs tournament. She had a beautifully painted Eldar army wich proceeded to destroy my Marines in short order. She was a very good player and just happened to be the girlfriend of the manager at the local GW store. I did think at the time that she had picked a typically girly army, but I didn't think I would have an easy time in the game. I have learnt never to underestimate your opponent, no matter who it is, or you are likely to get burnt.


----------



## Commala (Jan 13, 2013)

Routine said:


> ^That's a Hell of a first post Commala!
> 
> Oh, and + Rep for having the stones to admit that you paint your wife's nails :grin:


Thanks for the welcome, I've been a lurker here a couple of months and finally motivated myself to start contributing rather than just consuming the excellent content on these forums.

Besides, I have to do something when not perfecting my new nail-drybrushing technique. :grin:


----------



## Warhammerlady (Jan 10, 2013)

Creator of Chaos said:


> I have 1 question tho. Aisde from deamons which I saw in your blog and the lizardman you talk about here what armies do you play?


Well, I play DA at the moment, switch on and off between the daemons and those. Then I have some Chaos Spacemarines ay home, planning to paint them and ally them with the daemons


----------



## Warhammerlady (Jan 10, 2013)

morfangdakka said:


> You do make a lot of good points about how women are treated in this hobby community. The rarity of having a woman that likes the hobby is something we want to keep around. Many of us have girlfriends or wives that encourage and tolerate the hobby but few actually enjoy it.
> 
> Although I seem to be the only one that wants to see your ork models. You need a thread showing off your models. I have loved orks since 1994 and nicely painted ones are things I want to see.


Thanks  

Afraid I'm gonna have to disappoint you though - I sold them all a while back to help pay for the expansion of my Lizardmen army xD Was sort of tired of them. Though I'm thinking I might start again some day and have loads of Killa Kans and Deff dreads just cause the models look brilliant ^^


----------



## Warhammerlady (Jan 10, 2013)

Commala said:


> My wife and I were just having a conversation at breakfast yesterday about how this hobby is viewed by many. I have painted and occasionally played with toy soldiers for about two decades now, and my wife discovered this was one of my hobbies within the first month of our relationship. She had never even heard of Warhammer before she met me, and was amazed at this entire industry of a hobby had existed without her ever hearing about it.
> 
> She was very supportive of my hobby right from the start, to the extent that she takes photos of my finished models with her phone and shows them to her bemused friends and family. She was amazed when I explained that for many people it is a 'hidden hobby' due to the geek factor associated with it, although she could understand it a bit better when I took her to a GW store and she could observe some of the more eccentric hobbyists there.
> 
> ...


Yes, I think you and your wife had a nice discussion with some nice points. 
As I said in the video I viewed the models as toys for quite some time and I always found it weird with grown ups collecting and painting model airplanes and such as well. Never thought I'd be collecting and painting plastic figurines i'll tell you that! ^^ Then again as you say, I didn't play with toys when I got older since I wasn't supposed to and if you did, I actually had a barbie up until I was like 13, people usually made fun off you if they found out. 
Instead I played video games, and video games are, if you're not a socially awkward person considered okay in a way. Nobody ever made fun of me for that and it was in no way not considered okay for a teenage girl to do. 

After getting into the hobby I found it to be more of a game rather then "toys" and it was just an added bonus that you could impact how the pieces you use looks. Sort of like a very colorful game of chess.


----------



## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Warhammerlady said:


> Instead I played video games, and video games are, if you're not a socially awkward person considered okay in a way. Nobody ever made fun of me for that and it was in no way not considered okay for a teenage girl to do.


 This is really the same for boys as well. You find on here there are a great deal of posts that will say they don’t tell friends/girlfriends about their hobby to stop them from being ridiculed.

I am of an age when being a D&D person was not even considered an issue as it was relatively new in this country at the time. My son on the other hand does not really talk about his hobby at school. Where as me, even at 42 I am constantly boring the people at work with my figures and how I got on at the latest tournament. It helps that I am in IT and most of my colleagues are geeky nerds in some way.


----------



## Creator of Chaos (Feb 8, 2012)

Warhammerlady said:


> Well, I play DA at the moment, switch on and off between the daemons and those. Then I have some Chaos Spacemarines ay home, planning to paint them and ally them with the daemons


How are you finding the dark angels at the moment especially after the new codex if I may ask? Haven't faced them yet and I would love to know how I can beat them with my crons (Yes I'm a necron player but not the Cron-air kind). Never faced deamons either but hopefully I'll get a game soon. What lead you to choose those 2 armies in particular may I ask?

I myself mostly play necrons. I've always liked how defencivly resialiant they are and how there HQs can single-handily decide play. Nothing puts fear into an enemy more then seeing a Warscythe weilding phearon or Destroyer Lord leading 20 warriors or a royal court straight into the heart of battle (In the old Dex It was a Gaze of flame, warscything weilding, destroyer Lord ). I also have a small amount of sisters and Chaos marines that I build and paint here there.


----------



## Routine (Sep 25, 2011)

"Looks like.. about 20 Necron Warriors. And there's a Lord with them!" "Sir! We need more Dakka!!"


----------



## Warhammerlady (Jan 10, 2013)

Creator of Chaos said:


> How are you finding the dark angels at the moment especially after the new codex if I may ask? Haven't faced them yet and I would love to know how I can beat them with my crons (Yes I'm a necron player but not the Cron-air kind). Never faced deamons either but hopefully I'll get a game soon. What lead you to choose those 2 armies in particular may I ask?


Well for the Chaos Daemons it was the Changeling model - it made me buy the Pink Horrors and then when all the new models came out I couldn't resist them  
It was basically the same with DA, the Dark Vengance Box contained all those awesome models so I bought that and decided to expand both the armies, starting with the DA  

I haven't really played DA before so I don't know that much of how DA were before but I think that the army now is very balances, non of the entries are "this-is-something-I-have-to-pick-or-I'll-loose" and for points cost you get what you pay for - nothing seems ridiculously cheap/expensive. 

I have never really played Nercrons but from what I've heard and seen there quite a versatile army, I don't think you'd really have a problem against them. I mean just ordinary marines can easily be taken out by loads of firepower, terminators would have issues with lychguard in closecombat etc. 
From my point of view I think you should make a list the way you usually should make a list; some antiflying, some anti tanks, some anti terminator etc. I mean sure if you list is worthless then sure it's hard to win but if it's a general decent list then you shouldn't have a problem. 
If I was playing a tailored list and won just because I knew what my opponent was going to field I wouldn't find it fun. And also if I lost to a completely tailored list then it wouldn't be a fun game and if would mean that the next time I would have to tailor my list etc. and that would just bring the fun out of the game. 
So it total - you shouldn't have a problem with DA if you just know how play your army and make a decent, general list


----------

