# 16 AV12 Hulls, 1500 limit



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I have learned that this is the force I will be up against in a 1500 Tournament; 

Coteaz
Vindicare

5x 3 Warrior Acolytes with Meltaguns, Chimera with Multilaser and Heavy Bolter
5x 4 Warrior Acolytes, Chimera with Multilaser and Heavy Bolter
3x 3 Warrior Acolytes, Chimera with Multilaser and Heavy Bolter, Searchlights
3x 3 Warrior Acolytes, Chimera with Multilaser and Heavy Bolter, Searchlights

Just how on earth do you counter that at this points level? I think that CronAir can do well, but that is frowned upon, as are my Elysians (same issue, massed Vendetta and Vultures), but I still don't have a clue how else to go about beating 58 S6 shots and 58 s5 shots, followed by 15 Meltashots a turn.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

Wasn't Coteaz and his henchmen FAQ'd to only being able to take 6 units?

_Q. Taking Inquisitor Coteaz in your force turns Henchman Warbands
into troops choices. Does this mean that they take up a force
organisation slot and can no longer be taken as an elites choice? (p45)
A. Yes to both questions_

His army is illegal.

Also how can Necron Airforce be frowned upon while his monstrosity is ok?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Thank fuck for that, then. Happy days. However, that probably means a slightly smaller (14?) Chimeras as he takes guard allies. Which makes it harder due to more bodies. And possibly Vendettas.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

What armies do you play that you'd be willing to field? If you've got an army with access to Vindicators bring them for sure. Now that the entire blast marker is S10 against vehicles, two or three of those ought to make short work of all that AV12. With 14 hulls he's going to have to place them close together and you're blast markers can target two at a time. If he spreads out then you've got access to side armor which being 10 is not that hard to take down with your standard heavy weapons. The 24'' Demolisher range will also keep you out of range of his Melta and their AV13 will protect you from his S6 weaponry.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

If he/she's going to be a prick about bringing an AV12 wall, then doesn't that fully justify you to use Elysians or CronAir? 

If not, then why not beat fire with fire?


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## CattleBruiser (Sep 3, 2011)

If you have crons, but don't want to do with an airforce, take a normal mech cron list. 2 ovies in barges with warscythes, warriors and crypteks with the str 8 ap2 shot in ghost arks (lots of these) and some annihilation/doomsday arks if you have the points. 

Just spend the first round or two blowing the crap out of his meltagun squads and spend the rest of the game laughing at how str5 and 6 can't do jack squat to AV13.


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## AngelofHope (Mar 14, 2009)

CattleBruiser said:


> If you have crons, but don't want to do with an airforce, take a normal mech cron list. 2 ovies in barges with warscythes, warriors and crypteks with the str 8 ap2 shot in ghost arks (lots of these) and some annihilation/doomsday arks if you have the points.
> 
> Just spend the first round or two blowing the crap out of his meltagun squads and spend the rest of the game laughing at how str5 and 6 can't do jack squat to AV13.


Any heavy Mech list can actually do that  Focus on the melta carriers and destroy them, and then just watch how his low str doesn't even scrape the paint off your tanks


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

This is a tournament, take your Elysians. Honestly if he's going to take something like that then you can take air cav. 

Tactics wise the others are spot on. If you have it take a lot of av13, eliminate his small amount of melta and laugh.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Rems said:


> edit- Oh what it double posted.
> 
> Is there a way to delete posts?


Yes mate, go into edit and you'll see a delete button down the bottom right hand corner.

Am I missing something? Why is the list illegal or has Vaz edited the original list?


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

It's illegal because there are 16 separate henchmen squads. 5x3 means 5 squads of three henchmen. According to the Grey Knight FAQ the henchman squads Coteaz unlocks still fill FOC slots, so you can only have 6.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Ah yes I see.

Not sure how you could ever think that was legal?


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Someone got ahead of themselves with this list. Anyhow, this list isn't very mobile since he can't fire his heavy bolters and move effectively in the same round. Best bet IMO is use his own tanks to screen line of sight. Additionally he can't score any objectives without getting out of his tanks, and with such small squads, you can easily kill them turn 5 if you go second, which you should aim for. Jump Infantry with melta guns and power/chain fists would make short work of this list.

Also, I wouldn't tell him his list is illegal until the day of the tourney. If he isn't willing to do his homework, show up, tell the judge and get him disqualified. He will have to make a new list on the spot with the models he has, which will probably be much weaker and you can then stomp him.


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## Kharnas (Oct 24, 2009)

Arcane said:


> Also, I wouldn't tell him his list is illegal until the day of the tourney. If he isn't willing to do his homework, show up, tell the judge and get him disqualified. He will have to make a new list on the spot with the models he has, which will probably be much weaker and you can then stomp him.


Brutal, I love it :laugh:


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

+1 if nothing else it will be a major psychological blow for him


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## seermaster (Feb 22, 2012)

ba with 4 land raiders to screw him over other than that a deathstar list like jetseer councils could take it by getting in his gace really quickly


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## Suijin (Aug 11, 2011)

At that point why wouldn't you just have meltas in every acolyte squad? Then you would have to kill every unit to get rid of the meltas.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

Just how on earth do you counter that at this points level?

Vibrocannons


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Hmm. So as was said, Warrior Acolytes are only Troops with Coteaz, not Troops and Elites. But this list is horribly illegal for another reason. It's using Double Force Org at only 1500 points! You have to be playing 2000 points to use Double FOC. So you have a max of 6 Warrior squads in this list. Gotta use more expensive units to buy any other Chimeras now.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

Alright Vaz this should not only allow you to beat this guy but anyone else you fight, assuming they don't bring 9 Valks. If someone does only God can help you.

Farsee 90
Mind War or psychic Shriekd, Runes of Warding

Harlequins x8 210
Fusion Pistol x2, ShadowSeer,Kisses x8

Vibro Cannon x1 75
Warlock
Vibro Cannon x1 75
Warlock
Vibro Cannon x1 75
Warlock

Fire Dragons x5 97
Crackshot, Exarch

Guardian Jetbikes x3 66
Guardian Jetbikes x3 66

Broadside Battlesuits x3 223
Blacksun Filter x1, Target Lock x2

Shas'el 71
TL-Missile Pod, Black Sun Filter

Criss Battlesuits x3 141
TL-Missile Pods x3, Black Sun Filters x3

Fire Warriors x6 60

Fortress of Redemption x1 250
Krakstorm missiles

=1499

This list is very troop light but that isn't a bad thing, its not about capping objectives but making sure you cap 1 more than your enemy. Firewarriors and Jetbikes go in reserve. When the warriors come on hide behind the fortress OR inside if you feel the need. Jetbikes same deal or some other convenient piece of terrain
Commander and Suits go together, they Dakka down troops at range or can pop AV 12, whatever you want, they also are impromptu AA if the need arises.
Broadsides do what they do best switching between the 3 rail shots (at 3 different targets) or the 12 SMS shots at nearby hiding troops
Fire Dragons go in the annex with the laser and intercept flyers, or pop a tank first turn (no cover saves), if you have Night Fighting turn 1, you can pop the commander with the Dragons to bypass this.
Seer goes wherever you want, typically with the broadsides, harlies do what they do.
Vibro Cannons can either go in the fortress or anywhere he cannot see them and work on shredding vehicles, with 10+ vehicles he cannot avoid them and you should be hitting multiple tanks her turn. Remember he does not get a Cover save from just being behind something, he has to be in area terrain or have a rule that gives him a save since the Cannons are barrage.
Krakstorm missiles will typically be shot by a guardian that is hanging out with the cannon (if embarked) or by the fire warriors. Otherwise let it free fire as the BS 2 doesn't matter if you shoot out of LOS.
Edit: If it isnt obvious the Warlocks shoot the Vibrocannons at BS 4. Read the rules for artillery you always get T7 and 3+ save, use Look Out Sir to send the shots to the guardians and kill the Cannon last. The warlock can go hunting or something if he is still alive.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Cheers ragewing big help.

Would just like to say thanks to the guys who pointed out the list was illegal.

@Archon Dan; the list was initially "legal" regardless of FoC, because it stated they did't take up FoC. There was debate and whatnot, but it was determined that locally back when, it was legal to spam Chims. FAQ has changed that, though, happily.

Using a similar theme to before, I am imagining;

Coteaz
Vindicare (250ish)
6x3 with melta, Chimera (600ish)

So that leaves 650 to spend; assuming Guard alles; Command Squad, and 2 Meltavets is 450 ish; I am then guessing a 2 ship Vendetta Squadron to help, while he changes some of the points on the different units.

That is 9 Chims, 2 Vends, and a Vindicare to worry about. 

I like your list ragewind. Sadly, I don't have Tau or a Fortress but I do have both Eldar and Dark Eldar and an Aegis line. In addition to SM (useable as any variant, really), and IG. I have Nids, but they sort of speak for themselves, I haven't played them since 3rd edition.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

Vaz said:


> Cheers ragewing big help.
> 
> Would just like to say thanks to the guys who pointed out the list was illegal.
> 
> ...


Well damn, I would say ally in a squad of Medusa to bombard his position but other than that I don't know how to build IG...I just kill them. I can put something together for DE, do you happen to have a Skysheild Landing pad? If you do (or can borrow or proxy it) it makes things a lot easier.

EDIT: This is what I came up with, 3 Phoenix Lords is a lot to deal with. Basically 12 Terminator wounds with Stealth...GG. Remember FEUGAN SMASH!
Kahandras 215
Feugan 205

Jetbikes 76
Cannon
Jetbikes 76
Cannon
Jetbikes 66

Vibro Cannon 75
Vibro Cannon 75
Vibro Cannon 75

Ageis Defense Line 100
Quad Gun

Fire Dragons 112
Exarch, Crack Shot, Tank Hunters

Drazhar Master of Blades 230

Warriors x5 45

Void Raven Bomber 145

1495

Kahandras, Feugan, and Drazhar all form a little happy family and Infiltrate to a good spot very close to enemy lines. This unit has Move Through Cover, Stealth, Tank Hunters, Night Vision, and Fleet (for re-roll charge)+Misc special abilities, they also all have multiple (like 5+ each) AP 2 hits. This should be able to just walk all over his deployment zone eating through chimera's and anything else standing in their way, remember the Power from Pain rule for Drazhar.. If you manage to wreck a target then you are now being protected by the LOS blocking tank. It is easy to hide 3 models and he will be very focused on what they are doing.

Cannons sit back behind LOS blocking terrain and do their thing. They should focus tanks that are near your HQ super squad to protect them with wreckage.

Fire Dragon man the Quad Gun, turn 1 they try and take down a tank or a Dread or whatever. Turn 2 they give up shooting to intercept a flyer if need be (prioritize Squads of flyers) with Tank Hunters and Crack Shot they have no where to hide.

Warriors stay in reserve and keep their head down, they grab objectives near your deployment zone, the 66 point bikes stay in reserve. The 76's can stay on the table and Jsj if needed or hide in reserve if you are scared.

The Bomber does what the Bomber does, beware interceptors and try to either Deepstrike it where the guns cannot see it or enter the table to LOS blocking terrain if you can. Prioritize killing anti-air if you can.

This list is small and Elite but can do some serious damage against any opponent, if you don't SPLIT UP the 3 HQ's together they put out 21+ Attacks on the charge all at INT 7 all of them are STR 5+ etc etc. Keep them away from TH/SS Termies and you should be fine.


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## Suijin (Aug 11, 2011)

Vaz said:


> Cheers ragewing big help.
> 
> Would just like to say thanks to the guys who pointed out the list was illegal.
> 
> ...


Vindicare Assassins are 145 pts unless they changed it from the codex.


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## Greyheed (Jan 11, 2011)

Suijin said:


> Vindicare Assassins are 145 pts unless they changed it from the codex.


I think he meant Coteaz + Vindicare = 250ish


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## seermaster (Feb 22, 2012)

well personaly id use eldar if he doesnt know his lists ilegal he'll prob have to use less points


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Take it from an experienced car park player. I usually run 6-10 vehicles in my lists and one of the worst things to deal with is CC powerfist units who assault your vehicles. Unless they blow it up, the hull will block LOS from the rest of your army and leave you unable to retaliate while they walk through your forces. Since the squads inside are tiny, ignoring or taking them out quickly should be no problem.


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

If you do have Necrons but don't want to do the full Air Force, then just take two Doomscythes. The Death Ray can hit more then one unit at a time. And with 14 or so Tanks he'll have to line them up in some form or another, if he spaces them close enough and with a good roll you could hit 3 or 4 with one shot.


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## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Da Joka said:


> If you do have Necrons but don't want to do the full Air Force, then just take two Doomscythes. The Death Ray can hit more then one unit at a time. And with 14 or so Tanks he'll have to line them up in some form or another, if he spaces them close enough and with a good roll you could hit 3 or 4 with one shot.


Not to mention that you will need, at worst, a 3+ to pen Chimeras.


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