# Help



## LiamMeowFace (Jan 18, 2009)

Ogre kingdoms beasts of chaos or Orcs and goblins ? Which do you prefer + why strenghs and weaknesses ?




Also would i be able to tak items from the old warriors of chaos book for my beast lord


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

Before GW changed the codex, Beasts of Chaos had everything from fodder to artillery to super-powered daemons. Now... they're trash, unless they get a new codex. Ogres are amazing in hand to hand; except that they have lousy armour (read: none) and are easy to break (combat-wise, not the models.) They have fun, but inaccurate, ranged attacks. Oh, and gut magic is incredible if used correctly. Orcs and Goblins tend to loose; but are fun to play. 

Unfortunately, you cannot (according to my GW) take WoC weapons for a Beast character, as it's a 2 to 1 codex overrule. (Daemons and Warriors say you can't mix anything, beasts still says you can.)


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Ogres- fun but involved; you need to have excellent tactics to make them anywhere near competetive... against HE tactics wont help you (yes its down to luck- they negate all our strengths except fear and pick on our weaknesses... its a perfect storm).

O&G- again fun but tactics wont help very much; animosity will cause havoc in your battleline, racing some forward while stopping others. In a game where the movement phase is supreme this is a crippling blow. They can still be strong but rolling a 1 just as your about to declare a game changing flank charge is sometimes more then a player can take.

BoC- TBH I only know 1 person who collects them and he has only played with them once since the new rules came out...

I wish you luck with whatever you choose... if you asked around for oppinions as to which was the weakest army out there I recon 9/10 people would suggest 1 of these 3- I love my ogres and wouldnt switch but winning with them is a serious struggle (and losing can happen in a blink of an eye).


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## LiamMeowFace (Jan 18, 2009)

Thanks guys i have friends trying to get me to collect lizerdmen or VC aswell but i dont know to much about them


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

Well at the moment the Lizards and the Vampires are well up there in the power lists so are a lot easier to play than Orcs, Ogres and Beasts who unfortunately are rock bottom when it comes to really abusive combinations and game winning units.
That said I win a fair amount with my Ogres and a freind has a really powerful orc list and the Morghur spawn spam list is really annoying to play against so every list can win if played well or if you are as lucky with the dice as me:grin:
If you want a real challenge and a massive sense of superiority when you eventual win then any of your first 3 choices should work.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Yes I certainly agree with that- anytime my ogres beat up a daemon list I do feel a happy sense of superiority... this soon disapears when you start your next game when the old ogre inferiority complex kicks in as you see just what beardy combination your foe pulls out


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## Jester12 (Jun 18, 2009)

I play beasts of chaos and also haven't played them since the new WoC book. They are indeed a lot of fun and very versatile but unfortunately they don't really have many magic items anymore since they used to use the hordes of chaos magic item list in addition to their small magic item list. Now they just have theirs. However, they are "supposed" to be the next army after the skaven come out so there is hope on the horizon. If you like the look and feel of them start collecting and hope they are the new overpowered army coming out. As for ogres and orcs and goblins, I don't play either of them but only hear how hard is to win with them. Skaven are also said to be very hard to win with but mine win 9 times out of 10. You need to learn the tactics involved in winning with armies that are actually finesse armies even though they don't look like it. High elves are supposed to be the bane of ogres but a unit of gnoblars an inch from a unit of high elves throwing sharp stuff will eventually make the high elves charge in which the gnoblars flee and probably get caught (40 points well spent) while you got a unit of ogres waiting to give the old flank charge (preferably more than 6" away, remember impact hits go before asf). Pretty much what I'm saying I'm sure you had a gut instinct when you walked into a hobby store and said that army looks really friggin cool. Whatever army that happened to be I'd say go with that one because once you've mastered their strengths and weaknesses and figure out what tactics are required to win, you can consistently win. BTW my "underpowered" skaven are 7-0 with 5 of those being massacres against daemons so there's your proof.


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