# How do 4 marines and 1 dreadnought give Magnus a challenging fight?



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

this strikes me as quite odd in _Battle of the Fang_

a "regular" primarch slaughters marines by the dozens 

in _A Thousand Sons_, Thousand Son captains easily destroy Space Wolf dreadnoughts with their telekinetic powers (disassembling them and killing the marines inside) 

yet _daemon primarch_ Magnus has a tough time taking out 4 Space Wolves and a venerable dreadnought? OK...


----------



## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

Honestly it was for the story IMO. Bjorn is a good warrior but your right.Everyone should have been dead. I thought they would have used some of Russ's left behind weapons like Ragnar did. That made sense a weapon of that much power hurting a Primarch. Taking him one on one is a bit of a stretch.......unless your Kaldor "I roll sweetly" Draigo wiping your ass with fallen primarchs when your out of your usual bloodthirster toilet paper.


----------



## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

From reading the battle of the fang . Magnus took out other dreadnoughts before he face Bjorn. He actually took out maybe a few dreadnoughts and other space wolves before he faced off Bjorn and the final 4 space wolves. I think he took allot of hits from the plasma beam from Bjorn and I'm not sure maybe being a Deamon Primarch there maybe a certain time frame he could stay before being sent back or the damage he took weaken his stay .


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I dunno, it just seems inconsistent with the Horus Heresy portrayals of primarchs
especially since Magnus was the most powerful psyker primarch who's now a daemon primarch of Tzeentch...

even if he had killed a lot of Space Wolves before, I don't think 4 marines and a dreadnought should give him trouble, just my two cents


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks for including the spoiler tags.... Ouh, wait.


----------



## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

A Primarch, even a Daemon Primarch, isn't an auto-win button. Certainly, they are going to be, for the most part, kicking arse and there being too many attatched names to take. However, there will _always_ be a time when they get into trouble, random chance will ensure that.
They can be taken off-guard, hit with too many shots to shake-off quickly, momentarily overwhelmed by the ferocity of their attackers, or be surprised by the skill or tenacity of those they are fighting. Mortarion can kill GK with ease, but Draigo took him by surprise; Dorn is a class above CSM, yet he was killed in a boarding action; Horus could easily defeat a Nurgle Daemon Prince, but without full knowledge of what he was facing he still fell. 
Oh, and I second the 'why no spoiler tags?'

GFP


----------



## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

I take this fight going against him because of 1 fact-he was a DEMON Primarch, he had already spent time in this realm and was probably in his last stretch of time for this world so him weakening over time made him more possible to kill


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

maybe it was a monday? you know what i mean, you start the day with the intention of getting a shit ton of stuff done, but someone chucks a spanner in your plan and before you know whats happening its 3pm and your way behind with no way to pull it back...


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Maybe Space Wolves are just too much Badass for him to handle? He`s getting old now you know.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Maybe Space Wolves are just too much Badass for him to handle? He`s getting old now you know.


Exactly. Or... The wolves were so drunk that they got 2+ FNP.


----------



## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

Doelago said:


> Exactly. Or... The wolves were so drunk that they got 2+ FNP.


That combined with preferred enemy there was no way they should have lost


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Dorn is a class above CSM, yet he was killed in a boarding action'
> 
> GFP


*turns into Gollum* "Not listening..Not Listening!"


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> *turns into Gollum* "Not listening..Not Listening!"


_*Turns into Darth Vader*_ "Search your feelings, you know it to be true!"


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> _*Turns into Darth Vader*_ "Search your feelings, you know it to be true!"


_*Turns into Luke*_ No, no! Its not true... Thats impossible!


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Doelago said:


> _*Turns into Luke*_ No, no! Its not true... Thats impossible!


Lol Exactly what I think


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I cant see any LOGICAL reasoning for Magnus to lose to 4 nothing special Space Wolves and Bjorn who got his ass kicked by a mere Daemon in Prospero Burns. I see no LOGICAL reason for Mortarion to get his ass surprise jump by Draigo.

SPOILERS

In Dead Sky Black Sun the Khorn DP and the BT were both untouchable by the combine might of the IWs warbands, Honsou, Ureil, ANYBODY. They were only able to get hurt by each other.

Daemon World has a powerful Khorn DP whips the WHOLE planet of Slannesh ass. He was given a fight by 100 Violators CSMs and a Dreadnought himself, only to show in the end it was a futile attempt.

Chapters Due has another DP who was suppose beaten by Calgar.... that turn into a big lie, he was imprison temporally by the combination of Calgar and a whole mess of Daemon Hunter Inquisition. DAEMON HUNTERS.....
Only after his release he was killed by a "Magical, Soul Eating, Pointy Dagger of DOOM" that obliterated its soul. Warp to beat Warp.

Storm of Iron had a Unstoppable Warsmith turn DP as well as a Uber powerful BT suit of Armor. Both were unstoppable by the Company of IF, Librarian, and IG Regiment couldn't stop. At all.

Soul Drinkers showed TWO DP being beaten. 1 was a Nurgle DP who very form made him susceptible to be physical beaten by over a 100 SDs killing the Bodies in and first rank fire, second rank fire shooting. The second was a Tzeentch DP who could only be beaten by the Spear of Dorn that basically was a Warp Rift Double Lightsaber.

Now All of these are just Regular DPs that need UBER powerful Warp Beings, Items, or Large powerful armies just to make a dent. Aragon himself faced the might of the SW chapter led by Logar himself as well as the Steel Legion of Armageddon and was COMPLETELY unchallenged. It Took 100 GKs to sacrifice themselves just to banish this Physical powerful DP. Yet here we have Mortarion being beaten by a mere single GK. Here we have Magnus the most Warp Powerful being been beaten by 4 SWs (with no powerful artifacts) and a slightly tougher Venerable Dread who lost to a mere Daemon to begin with! Bullshit!

Some may say it was a random chance that won the day. BS again. I can stand in front of a Boulder that ways 10 tons and hit it all day with my fist to try and crack it. Will Never Happen! I need a Wrecking ball that ways relatively the same to do the job. Its not possible with my mere fist. I need something of near equal power to do the job. Same with this Plot driven BS.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

It never says Dragio banishes Mortation himself, you're implying that because you don't like Draigo.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I didn't know how to convey this topic without stating it outright 

I added spoiler tags to the OP if that helps =P

explanation seems to be SW are just awesome like that
y'know, being the Emperor's executioners whom even other Legions fear, yeah...



Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> A Primarch, even a Daemon Primarch, isn't an auto-win button.
> GFP


against 4 marines and a dread it should be
remember how Corax destroyed scores of Word Bearers and Chaos-warped Chosen without breaking a sweat at Istvaan? he was by no means fresh by the time he carved into Lorgar's Chosen, but it was still a cake walk.


----------



## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Plot armor is best armor. :laugh:


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Aramoro said:


> It never says Dragio banishes Mortation himself, you're implying that because you don't like Draigo.


You have no proof that he didnt, you just like him.


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well, these weren't 4 nothing special marines, and Bjorn is the most venerated dreadnought amongst the wolves, and this is the fang. For all we know, he could have been covered in anti-psycher runes, as could have the fang. Also, Magnus was a pushover when it comes to CC compared to the rest of the Primarchs. The wolves are fairly adept CC opponents. Besides, it would seem that his psychological effected him more than his opponents. If you noticed, he was flabbergasted by the fact that they even landed a hit, which made him doubt himself and prevented him from properly responding. I'm just putting this up to a series of misfortunate events, and Magnus's huge fucking ego. Remember, after he realized he was being a dipfuck and found his testies, he did kick the shit out of them.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

gen.ahab said:


> Well, these weren't 4 nothing special marines, and Bjorn is the most venerated dreadnought amongst the wolves, and this is the fang. For all we know, he could have been covered in anti-psycher runes, as could have the fang. Also, Magnus was a pushover when it comes to CC compared to the rest of the Primarchs. The wolves are fairly adept CC opponents. Besides, it would seem that his psychological effected him more than his opponents. If you noticed, he was flabbergasted by the fact that they even landed a hit, which made him doubt himself and prevented him from properly responding. I'm just putting this up to a series of misfortunate events, and Magnus's huge fucking ego. Remember, after he realized he was being a dipfuck and found his testies, he did kick the shit out of them.


It's written in the book that Bjorn had all kinds of sigils and runes on him from ages ago and from everyone whose ever "looked after him".


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> It's written in the book that Bjorn had all kinds of sigils and runes on him from ages ago and from everyone whose ever "looked after him".


Ah, well there you go. He had anti-magic mumbo-jumbo.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

doesn't really matter how good the 4 marines and the dread are 
to a primarch, 4 elite marines should still be a non-issue 
the dreadnought would be slightly more dangerous, but still shouldn't pose much of a challenge 

true, Magnus isn't a great h2h fighter among the primarchs, but he's still a daemon primarch
in addition he's supposed to be one of the most powerful psykers in 40k...
he should've been able to obliterate 4 marines and 1 tin can _easily_ before being dragged into h2h


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Think it's also stated Magnus knew Bjorn was at the sacking of prospero from his "aura". So who knows maybe a bit of Russ's power rubbed off on him.


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> true, Magnus isn't a great h2h fighter among the primarchs, but he's still a daemon primarch
> in addition he's supposed to be one of the most powerful psykers in 40k...
> he should've been able to obliterate 4 marines and 1 tin can _easily_ before being dragged into h2h


Well, this was on Fenris in the home of the wolves. It is possible that his psychic powers were impaired. 

Again, they pretty much would have been, if it was not for Magnus's ego, he probably would have done what he did end up doing much sooner.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Well, this was on Fenris in the home of the wolves. It is possible that his psychic powers were impaired.


possible, would've been nice if the book explains 
I can see Lorgar having trouble with 4 marines and a dread, but that's Lorgar =P
even in his case, only the dread would pose substantial danger 

Russ forced Magnus into close combat...OK, I can accept that because
1) apparently Russ has some sort of anti-psyker aura and 
2) Russ is supposed to be one of the toughest primarchs

I'm trying but I just can't see 4 marines and a dread forcing Magnus to engage in h2h and then giving him a tough fight 

I don't think they'd ever show Russ having trouble with 4 Sons and a dread, he'd just reflect their psychic attacks back and carve up the dread 
I think it boils down to a double standard and it's frustrating as a chaos fan


----------



## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

Ya'll are forgetting one thing that Wraight had mentioned several times in the book about Magnus: About how physically WEAK Magnus had become. Yes, Magnus had shed his physical body to the energy daemon prince thing he currently is, but the logic is, is that perhaps his adjustment to it all isn't a "Wham! Yer a Daemon Prince. Go rape entire systems now!" But instead is a "Okay, you're potentially a badass now, but it's going to take time for it all to finalize, perhaps a rather long time. But hey, what's time to a creature of the warp, eh?"


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Diatribe1974 said:


> Ya'll are forgetting one thing that Wraight had mentioned several times in the book about Magnus: About how physically WEAK Magnus had become


doesn't really change the fact that Magnus is much more of a psychic fighter than a physical fighter 
yes, he's weak physically, but his psychic powers are immense

marines shouldn't be able to touch him 
Magnus could easily strike them down with psychic attacks without being dragged into h2h

but someone else mentioned that Magnus was very arrogant and kinda goofed off...I'll go with that


----------



## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> maybe it was a monday? you know what i mean, you start the day with the intention of getting a shit ton of stuff done, but _*someone chucks a spanner in your plan*_ and before you know whats happening its 3pm and your way behind with no way to pull it back...


People really need to stop throwing me around. It hurts you know :cray:


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> I don't think they'd ever show Russ having trouble with 4 Sons and a dread, he'd just reflect their psychic attacks back and carve up the dread
> I think it boils down to a double standard and it's frustrating as a chaos fan


I very much doubt it is a double standard. I'm sure ANY other primarch besides Magnus could have got the job done in fairly short order. :laugh:


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> I very much doubt it is a double standard. I'm sure ANY other primarch besides Magnus could have got the job done in fairly short order. :laugh:


lol perhaps...then it would be a case of whipping boy syndrome a la Lorgar


----------



## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

As the fight dragged on his physical form was getting weaker. I'm not sure if that was the time frame Magnus had in the material world or the attack on his physical frame weaken his stay. 

I look at this way..there has to be a trade off. If a demon primarch was too powerful and has much more power than a regular primarch along with demon forces . Chaos can give a hell of an ass beating to the Imperium. 

I think I read or someone else said it that the longer they are in the material world or are in the material world they are not at 100% power. 

So who's to say that the dreadnought and the 4 space marines were fighting a Magnus at 50% power or even less.


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

The only explanations that have any real affect on this topic is Bjorn had Anti Psy Runes (I never heard of this before) and the fact DPs/GDs get weaker outside of their comfort zones. Still even then I still just cant see Magnus not winning rather easily. 

Also on a side note Russ does not have anti-psy mumbo jumbo. He had the SoS with him that help. Also Magnus Psychic might was enough to actually give Russ and his 2 Super Wolves a fight for their lives. Its not like Russ made short work of Magnus. So no Russ mumbo jumbo rubbing off on Bjorn.


----------



## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

This thread needs shut down simply due to folks being overly critical against a great book. It's like folks reading comic books (such as Superman), then being overly critical about the amount of damage that'd be done to each city in question due to all the super hero/villian slugfests tearing shit up (pointing out all the IRL effects $$$ wise, as well as population wise, ect).

TL;DR: STFU and enjoy a good book when it's a good book. Bitch at Goto instead.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> Also on a side note Russ does not have anti-psy mumbo jumbo. He had the SoS with him that help.


he had his shout 
and he reflected psychic attacks 



Diatribe1974 said:


> This thread needs shut down simply due to folks being overly critical against a great book


no one is criticizing the writing, only how one fight in the book played out
why can't it be discussed? 

you either need to settle down or stop clicking on my thread if other people's opinions bother you that much


----------



## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

I think it was a bit of a brain fart on the author. Like I said in the Space Wolves and even the Soul Drinkers novels when dealing with opponents (greater daemons or daemon Primarchs) of surperior strength they usually get weapons that are capable of incapacitating or killing them like the Spear of Russ or Dorn. Yeah it's a poor showing that a guy who was basically walking through space wolves on his own planet like a garden couldn't effectivley handle 4 space marines and a dreadnought. I was saying that Magnus maybe wasn't the outward warrior like some of his brothers (Russ,Lion,Angron,Khan, or Sanguinius) but he should have been a lot better than that weak or not. I don't even like him and that's messed up. I'm not going to give any spoilers here but even in First Heretic,Lorgar didn't have any problems until he faced another primarch. I thought battle for the fang was a good book but they definitely screwed Magnus power wise.


----------



## -Bosco- (Mar 11, 2011)

I think after reading it and going by other fluff out there that magnus was alot weaker than he should be been when facing the space wolves, first we can take he was summoned and embodied on the planet that the space wolves went to fight him (been a month or so since i read it) then transferred his essence to above Fenris but not before part of it was banished back to the warp, and then once again above fenris he transferred it to another body. This imo would weaken him from how powerful he should of been, and then facing off against bjorn who had anti warp paper strapped to him that has been empowered over the past 1000 years by different rune priests and being inside the fang itself which with all its anti warp runes and all prevented him from simply teleporting there in the first place, would of made him alot weaker than he should be at full power, giving those few space wolves and dreadnought some time to hurt him, who knows since the book doesn't say maybe Russ showed up at the end and through that spear at him that the space wolves series makes a big deal about but is never mentioned outside of it  (drunken ramblings ftw )


----------



## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

the problems i find with the 40k books is that in one book space marines basically take a S*** load of damage and then they fall like flies the next. the problem with the 40k universe is that there are so many great writers ,who are brilliant and produce brilliant books , you should expect clashes between some of the books.

but anyway on topic , i would say it would be down to the conditions the marines face individually i.e trianing ,experience ,weapons.


----------



## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Magnus shouldn't have lost. It's just that simple. He should have had the raw power alone to one-shot pretty much everyone on the playing field. People talk about Bjorn having some left-over psychic toilet paper stuck to one of his feet, but that doesn't cut it for me. In _A Thousand Sons_ we see the kind of damage he can dish out and that he certainly isn't a slouch in a fight (regardless of what the SW fanboys say). As for getting powers weakened by some runes and papers , lets not forget about the dead stones on that planet with the webway gate. Those stones completely shut off the powers of the Sons but couldn't even come close to working on Magnus. What still flabbergasts me though is how Magnus always get drawn into melee first...


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

MontytheMighty said:


> he had his shout
> and he reflected psychic attacks


He reflected Psychic attacks?! Were u reading the same Book? He took the attacks head on and screamed in pain. Nowhere did he reflected them. Also Angron yells and roars alot to the same effect as Russ, and its not psychic at all. Can u please point me to your source where he has a Psychic Roar?


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> He reflected Psychic attacks?! Were u reading the same Book? He took the attacks head on and screamed in pain. Nowhere did he reflected them. Also Angron yells and roars alot to the same effect as Russ, and its not psychic at all. Can u please point me to your source where he has a Psychic Roar?


............... When the douche psycher tried to kill him and was obliterated, that was during the battle for prospero, and the other bit was when they were nuking those bitches towards the beginning of the book before they got to the library. How the fuck did you miss this shit? :laugh: You know, that bit when he melted brains and such.


----------



## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Yep, Russ had some degree of psychic talent of his own. He was able to turn Auramagma's attack back on himself and he uses that psychic shout of his quite frequently during battle. I'd actually be curious to know what other abilities Russ possessed, as _The First Heretic_ also contains some small hints that Russ had some other skills. I don't know how serious Lorgar was, but he did mention Russ using runes and bones for divination as well as something along the lines of 'being able to yell at the moon and have every wolf on the planet join in'. Makes you wonder what other abilities he was hiding.


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I guess Ill have to re read it again. I always took it as not a Psy attack but just sheer force of his shout that turn brains into mush or cause Psykers to lose concertration. His sheere volume and pitch will do that with nothing Psychic at all being needed. I dont remember anywhere in the book it specificly says he had Psychic abilities. Ill re read it though.

Edit: Re Read it and it seems the TS do describe it as a Psychic Shout. Stupid but why not lets give every Primarch a Psychic power now. Now I remember why I blacked that part out. :no:


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

In the end, it comes down to plot. 

Magnus failed like he did simply because the author _needed_ him to fail. 

The fact/opinion that it should have been made more believable makes for a fun pointless discussion, but ultimately it won`t change a damn thing. 

So apply whatever justification you want and move on. 



Maybe Magnus` shoes were too tight and he couldn`t focus? :crazy:


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

yes, I don't like the fact that Russ is portrayed as this unbeatable super badass (except when he gets knocked the fu__ out by Lion)

...but you can't deny he's powerful and has these powers that are apparently awesome against psykers
his psychic roar and some sort of psychic reflection ability

anyway, yes, Magnus lost because he had to...but couldn't it have been because hundreds of SW were pouring fire on him and then tons of masonry fell on him or something epic

instead of a fight with 4 marines, a dread, and then the great wolf (another marine)


----------



## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

It goes down to popularity. I've got comic book fans as friends and they always argue how the hell wolverine can go against something like the Hulk and the answer is popularity. The Space Wolves and Russ are one of the most popular armies in 40k.Even if Russ wasn't involved in the fight they would never show the Wolves poorly. As for the Lion knocking Russ out that was a cheap shot.Don't act like they were fighting straight up and he KO'd him. Russ became aware that their fight was ridiculous and started laughing because he knew it was stupid.Before he could say anything the Lion took this as an insult and knocked him out.Plain and simple. Russ has beaten Horus and has gone toe to toe with the Emperor before getting knocked out by a powerfist. In actuality it was Russ's fighting skills if you read the story that finally sold the Emperor that this was his son.Before that he thought he was a god like John Belushi from animal house.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Deadeye776 said:


> It goes down to popularity. I've got comic book fans as friends and they always argue how the hell wolverine can go against something like the Hulk and the answer is popularity. The Space Wolves and Russ are one of the most popular armies in 40k.Even if Russ wasn't involved in the fight they would never show the Wolves poorly.


yes, popularity matters a lot



> As for the Lion knocking Russ out that was a cheap shot.Don't act like they were fighting straight up and he KO'd him.


I'm not, but you should tell that to all the Night Lord fans who think Curze is super badass because he sucker punches Dorn


----------



## harlokin (Jun 3, 2011)

Deadeye776 said:


> .Even if Russ wasn't involved in the fight they would never show the Wolves poorly. As for the Lion knocking Russ out that was a cheap shot.Don't act like they were fighting straight up and he KO'd him. Russ became aware that their fight was ridiculous and started laughing because he knew it was stupid.Before he could say anything the Lion took this as an insult and knocked him out.Plain and simple


A cheap-shot? No it wasn't. Russ childishly started a fight which dragged on for a considerable period of time, and then unilaterally decided that the fight he had instigated was ridiculous because he couldn't win.

He's lucky that the Lion didn't kebab him.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

harlokin said:


> A cheap-shot? No it wasn't. Russ childishly started a fight which dragged on for a considerable period of time, and then unilaterally decided that the fight he had instigated was ridiculous because he couldn't win.
> 
> He's lucky that the Lion didn't kebab him.


yeah, but impalement doesn't seem to faze primarchs...Curze got impaled and fought on just fine against the Lion


----------



## harlokin (Jun 3, 2011)

MontytheMighty said:


> yeah, but impalement doesn't seem to faze primarchs...Curze got impaled and fought on just fine against the Lion


Fair point, I just meant that in the context of the fight, where the Lion was using his sword, punching Russ rather than kebabing him was quite a restrained response.


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

As for Russ vs Lion it was a dead even fist fight till Russ let his guard down to stop the fight and Lion then KOed him. No Sucker Punching. As with Cruze and Dorn, why does everyone think he Sucker Punch Dorn? He was having a Night Terror and kicked Dorns ass. He was not even conscious and beat Dorns ass so bad he was terrified of Cruze. Then we see Cruze ignore Corax who was dealing the Death Blow to Logar, and then Corax did his best to run from him. Then we also now have Cruze showing he can beat the Lion in hand to hand. HES THE BEST!!! 

Is this Fanboy enough?


----------



## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> Is this Fanboy enough?


Wasn't the Emperor scared of Curze too? And probably the fucking Chaos Gods! Curze is 110,000,000,000% badass!

I think that should do it.


----------



## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> As for Russ vs Lion it was a dead even fist fight till Russ let his guard down to stop the fight and Lion then KOed him. No Sucker Punching.


Oh, yes, because punching a man in the face while he is currently laughing his head off is perfectly fair. :laugh:


----------



## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Oh, yes, because punching a man in the face while he is currently laughing his head off is perfectly fair. :laugh:


Hey, that's a legitimate attack. It's called the 'LOL-punch technique' and has been around for millenia.:crazy:


----------



## harlokin (Jun 3, 2011)

Chompy Bits said:


> Hey, that's a legitimate attack. It's called the 'LOL-punch technique' and has been around for millenia.:crazy:


That's true, its part of a particularly deadly combo taught on Caliban...."chicken dance pirouette (to provoke laughter), immediately followed by dragon-LOL-punch", it is unpossible to defeat .


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

harlokin said:


> That's true, its part of a particularly deadly combo taught on Caliban...."chicken dance pirouette (to provoke laughter), immediately followed by dragon-LOL-punch", it is unpossible to defeat .


Only Chuck Norris Round House Kick is superior.:victory:


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> As with Cruze and Dorn, why does everyone think he Sucker Punch Dorn? He was having a Night Terror and kicked Dorns ass. He was not even conscious and beat Dorns ass so bad he was terrified of Cruze.


I think you should re-read that story again (as you should read _A Thousand Sons_ again) because you seem to miss a lot of stuff in the books 

what we know is that Dorn confronted Curze _verbally_, Curze blacked out (i.e. snapped and went crazy) and Dorn ended up on the ground
let's say you're criticizing your brother, who happens to be a latent psychopath, and he flips out and attacks you with the intent to kill...how would your brother not have the advantage of surprise? 

we also know that Dorn feared Curze because of Curze's prophecies of doom, which were starting to come true
what Dorn feared most was a civil war between the primarchs, which goes to show that he wasn't the type to jump another primarch...unlike someone else *cough* *cough*



> Then we see Cruze ignore Corax who was dealing the Death Blow to Logar, and then Corax did his best to run from him. Then we also now have Cruze showing he can beat the Lion in hand to hand. HES THE BEST!!!


yes, we also know that the Lion slits Curze's throat later on...does that mean the Lion is DA BEST!


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

MontytheMighty said:


> I think you should re-read that story again (as you should read _A Thousand Sons_ again) because you seem to miss a lot of stuff in the books
> 
> what we know is that Dorn confronted Curze _verbally_, Curze blacked out (i.e. snapped and went crazy) and Dorn ended up on the ground
> let's say you're criticizing your brother, who happens to be a latent psychopath, and he flips out and attacks you with the intent to kill...how would your brother not have the advantage of surprise?
> ...


Hell, I reread TS again, and hated it. I hate rereading, bores me to know the outcome. I was also right about Russ not deflecting Psy Attacks since Magnus busted his ass and his 2 bitches up good. As for Cruze night terror/Black out/Alternate Personality I really dont care the proper term for whatever crazy he has he beat the crap out of poor Dorn while unconscious himself. Make no mistake Dorn (along with Lion and Corax) feared the Batman, erm, the Night Haunter. As for Lion slitting his neck, shows what a wuss Lion must be to slit his Throat and yet Cruze still kicking about. Also nothing for the Corax running from a _casual_ Cruze? Nothing? 

Rabid Fanboyism.... sheesh.


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> Hell, I reread TS again, and hated it. I hate rereading, bores me to know the outcome.


Then why in the many hells are you reading the novels of the Heresy series? You already know the outcomes of many/all of the books coming out; so why are you wasting your time?

Also, who is Logar anyway? Is he one of the lost primarchs? Does he have any relation to Lo_*r*_gar? Maybe he's the Urizen's stunt double or something?


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

darkreever said:


> Then why in the many hells are you reading the novels of the Heresy series? You already know the outcomes of many/all of the books coming out; so why are you wasting your time?


I read them to justify why the hell I waste my time with a non progressing story line. Or I could stare into space when deployed. Truth is reading this crap is the slight lesser evil.



darkreever said:


> Also, who is Logar anyway? Is he one of the lost primarchs? Does he have any relation to Lo_*r*_gar? Maybe he's the Urizen's stunt double or something?


Logar is Lorgar's brother in law from America whos name is Common Spelling. Sry use to be a MP and I tend to spell names in Comon Spelling. I like the Brother in Law better, he bitches less.:so_happy:


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Didn't Magnus once take on an Eldar Titan and blow it away? I read something like that in "Thousand Sons." I would think that primarchs would lose something when they fall to chaos. They lose their luck, their vigour, etc...


----------



## Dînadan (Mar 7, 2009)

Maybe Tzeentch interveened and cut off Magnus' power source? Tzeentch has innumerable plans going on all at once, and maybe one (or more) of those plans required the Wolves to survive, so he purposely hamstrung Magnus at what he considered would be the crucial moment?


----------



## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

magnus is a daemon now, if i remember rightly that means he is not fully in the mortal realm, his power ever more linked to the warp. Hence those primarch's that have become daemon princes are less powerful in the materium then they were originally

i could well be spouting shit, and am perfectly ready to be called on it

even so angron got banished by a load of grey knights and we saw how many astartes he minced through in the heresy.

Either way however powerful you are you take enough hits from a bolter your eventually going to feel it, plus he was getting blasted with a plasma cannon, never fun and it isnt just a dreadnaught, its bjorn who is one nasty bastard


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

No your not spouting shit Deathbringer. A daemon that exists in the material realm is only as powerful as the vessel in which it inhabits, or by how much reality itself has shattered and the warp is seeping in.

Since the Thousand Sons most definitely did not do the second of those two, people can guess how the daemon primarch Magnus was walking about on Fenris. So ask yourselves this, how powerful was the body in which he took as a vessel compared to that of a primarch?


And remember that it was not just four marines and a dreadnought that gave Magnus a challenge. It was the chapters most powerful psyker, one of the twelve leaders of an entire company, two of his champions, and one of the champions of Russ in a war machine. Don't forget that those last three were encased in mini-dreadnought armour, or dreadnought armour itself.

But despite that, only one of these five gave Magnus anything close to a 'challenge' and that was Bjorn. The other four did little more than sucker punch Magnus, because the moment he recovered and fought back they were decimated.

Bjorn himself didn't fare all that well either to be honest. Sure he wiped the floor with the mortal body Magnus was using, and from that would force Magnus back out of the material realm over time, but were it not for the intervention of a sixth opponent Magnus would have killed all five of his enemies. (And in the end, of the seven marines he 'fought' in the end, only one barely made it out alive and that's only thanks to the fact that he was already interred in a dreadnought.)


The fight was not nearly as bad as some like to whinge about. Could it have been different/better? Maybe; and why maybe you ask? Well I don't see many others coming up with literary gold, at least not amongst the people who are complaining as they do.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

darkreever said:


> Well I don't see many others coming up with literary gold, at least not amongst the people who are complaining as they do.


do you mean that I would have the right to criticize the fight only if I were able to right something better? 
I hope that's not what you're saying...


----------



## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Many of the examples I think should be looked at differently when seeing Daemons in the warp and daemons who get out of the warp. Because it requires so much of their energy to sustain themselves, so for examples like M'kar, and Magnus, yes, they can't regenerate their warped powers.

As for the fight itself, I kind of thought it was a good portrayal of how the fight could have really gone. I am actually surprised Magnus had enough energy to lead the last assault. 

For starters, the whole time Magnus is trying to retain himself into areas of the galaxy at the same time. So he's been exterting his energy trying to do this. But I think one of the most important things that may have been a factor was the fact that Fenris seemed to be a force that was almost literally playing against Magnus. I remember reading it in the novel, where the Thousand Sons feel the presence of the planet literally pretty much just making the odds against their favors. 

I might be looking a little too into it. But it almost seems like Fenris is a warped yet warp controlled planet at the same time. It would also explain why the Wolves haven't been destroyed as a chapter like their predecessor that was off world due to their "flaw."


----------



## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

The powers of the Warp in 40k seem to go from mostly useless to overpowered at random. I guess that sorta fits in with how it's pure "Chaos" and whatnot, but still. Basically all it does it assure that the plot goes however the writers want it to go. It's the same nonsense that goes on in comic books. 

Anyone who knows about Squirrel Girl knows what I'm talking about. :suicide:

But in all seriousness, if you read the Horus Heresy series, Primarchs are very far above everyone else, no matter what. Magnus, as a Daemon Primarch, should have wiped the floor with everyone around him. Also, Fenris is very close to the Eye anyways, so the whole "He was a warp fish out of warp water" story doesn't really add up here.

Also Chaos never wins. Ever. No matter what. And if they do win, it's superficial and doesn't mean anything other than "Maybe someday possibly something might come of this Chaos victory. If Tzeentch wills it, which probably he won't." -.-


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

This is why I believe that becoming a Daemon Prince in fact weakens you overall. It adds a factor that makes you (the DP) unable to counter including Primarchs.


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

SoulGazer said:


> Also, Fenris is very close to the Eye anyways, so the whole "He was a warp fish out of warp water" story doesn't really add up here.


If by close to the Eye you mean closer than Terra, or the Tau Empire, or the locations where the Tyranids have entered known space, then yes you would be correct.

But check this  40k galactic map.  The Ocularis Terribus, also known as the Eye of Terror, is located on the east end of that map, Fenris is to the right of that. You may notice that the two aren't nearly as close as you might think. This actually makes sense, for if Fenris was close to the Eye, how come it was not discovered by Russ and his legion, or the Emperor when he found Russ?


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

its only about 4000 light years from fenris to the eye of terror, i think you could catch the number 71 bus and be there in no time


----------

