# 40k Apocalypse Rumours



## Zion

Predictions Section

Rumoured Release
13 July 2013

General Information
Author: 
State: Most likely ready to ship (<30 days prior to release)
Release information: Three books:

The Standard Book Edition will be 60,00€
There will also be a Collectors edition, but no price as of yet
A Big Gamers Edition for 200,00€ (Something very big in it)

Rules

New Datasheets for anyone who bought the _new_ models (as to be expected really).
Allies Matrix was considered when designing things so "new" superheavies might be access to those through allies instead.
Completely overhauled for new edition, ect.

Scenarios

Formations

Superheavies

Khorne Deathdealer/Lord of Battle
Necron "Megalith"
Rumours of Imperial/Space Marine Dual Kit
Necrons and Chaos might be the only actual kits this release though as mentioned regarding the Allies Matrix above.

Fortifications

Giant gun/missile fortifications (Designed to hook up to the Wall of Martyrs)
"Command Citadel" that a Wraithknight can easilly hide behind

Model Releases

Khorne Deathdealer/Lord of Battle Dual Kit
Necron "Megalith" UPDATE: Rumoured name is "Tesseract Vault"
Large Imperial Walker (smaller than Warhound, knight perhaps?)
Dark Eldar Bomber (as put forth last year)
Eldar "Large Hover Tank"
IG Hydra (has a FW model, so doubtful)
IG Medusa/Colossus (also has FW models, so doubtful)
Tyranid Harpy
Space Marine "Master of ______" models
 
Other 

Khorne and Necron focus claimed
Only Imperial Guard and Orks not getting new Apocalypse vehicles due to existing kits, but may still get an Apoc aircraft
All other armies rumours to be getting an Apoc Vehicle and Aircraft.
ALTERNATIVELY: Superheavies will be available to all armies who don't have them via allies.
FW Apoc book being released in tandem with GW Apoc release.
Two Wave release
Codexes missing models will receive them when they get updated for 6th (so this could potentially keep you from seeing that missing Dark Eldar Bomber).
Collectors edition is a replica of an inquisitors travel case or some such. (Limited to 1500 world wide) Has the Rulebook, and some other swag.
Gamers edition ( Limited to 3000 worldwide) includes rulesbook and a case big enough for 4 Baneblades or 14 regular tanks. 



Price/Item Release List (prices listed are Canadian and US in that order):

WARHAMMER 40000: APOCALYPSE (ENGLISH) Other Book 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $90.00 $74.25
IMPERIAL TARGETING TEMPLATES Hobby Product 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $30.00 $25.00
KHORNE LORD OF SKULLS Plastic Box 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $190.00 $160.00
IMPERIAL GUARD BANEBLADE Plastic Box 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $170.00 $140.00
NECRON TESSERACT VAULT Plastic Box 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $190.00 $160.00
WALL OF MARTYRS: VENGEANCE WEAPON BATTERY Plastic Box 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $60.00 $50.00
WALL OF MARTYRS: FIRESTORM REDOUBT Plastic Box 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $80.00 $65.00
WALL OF MARTYRS: AQUILA STRONGPOINT Plastic Box 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $140.00 $115.00
SPACE MARINE CPTN: MASTER OF THE MARCHES Finecast Clam 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Splash $30.00 $22.25
SPACE MARINE CAPTAIN:MASTER OF THE RITES Finecast Clam 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Splash $30.00 $22.25
SPACE MARINE CAPTAIN: MASTER OF RELICS Finecast Clam 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Splash $30.00 $22.25
SPACE MARINE CAPTAIN: LORD EXECUTIONER Finecast Clam 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Splash $30.00 $22.25
APOCALYPSE STRATEGIC ASSET CARDS (ENG) Hobby Product 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Limited $16.00 $15.00
BOMBARDMENT DICE CUBE Hobby Product 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Limited $36.00 $30.00
VORTEX GRENADE TEMPLATE Hobby Product 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Limited $16.00 $15.00
WH40K: APOCALYPSE - COLLECTORS EDITION Other Book 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 D Limited $300.00 $250.00
WH40K: APOCALYPSE - GAMER'S EDITION 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 D Limited $300.00 $250.00

Credit goes to Stephen.W.Langdon for spotting the Bloodknight.

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More information to come as it's released.


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## Zion

5 June 2013 - (From Darog's Company):


> - New Apocalypse rules - Khorne and Necrons focused (2 new types of Monolith rumoured)
> 
> A large Imperial Walker, (smaller than a warhound titan)
> Possible Chaos Variant (might have been mistaken for the Lord of Battles)
> 
> Missing plastic models known to be created but possibly held back for the Apocalypse release:
> -Eldar Bomber
> -Eldar "large hover tank"
> -IG Hydra
> -IG Medusa / Colossus
> -Tyranid Harpy
> 
> via Faeit 212
> 
> Apocalypse
> Only the Imperial Guard and Orks are not getting an a new Apocalypse vehicle, but they could be getting new apoc aircraft. It seems so that all armies will have 1 1 apoc vehicle and aircraft.
> 
> Forgeworld
> We should be seeing a FW apoc book same month as GW apoc release covering all vehicles and aircraft from previous apoc books


6 June 2013 - (From Faeit212):


> via anonymous source (from the Faeit 212 inbox)
> the Apocalypse release will be three books
> -The Standard Book Edition will be 60,00€
> -There will also be a Collectors edition, but no price as of yet
> -A Big Gamers Edition for 200,00€ (Something very big in it)


9 June 2013 - (from Faeit212):


> via BramGaunt over on Warseer
> 1st: There is a new rulebook, if anyone still questioned that. Complete overhaul. The scale of additional shenanigans will be the same as with a regular rulebook, as well as limited items. Probably a collectors- and a gamers edition aswell (allthough I am only guessing that!).
> 
> 2nd: The kits we have seen so far cover all the miniatures there will be for now (Khorne "Skulldozer" and Necron "Monolith of Doom + 2D6"). However, there are three new pieces of terrain, which apperantly are of apocalyptic size. A different source told me of a 'commad citadel' behind which the Wraithknight could easily hide.
> 
> 3rd: Releasedate is the 13th of July, with Preorders starting the 29th (with the new WD, as usual). This is GW's big release this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Via Warseer's The Dark General
> It's a dual kit approx size of baneblade box, but taller model. Makes either the Deathdealer or Lord of Battles.
> 
> Also there's a bunch of new data sheets, inlcuding some for those of us that bought multiple NEW models
> 
> It's also NOT the only Chaos models coming out, along with a few other Khorne...speedy guys...
> 
> Approx price is $125
> 
> 
> via Best_Pone
> Let's see now...
> You've already seen the Chaos and Necron superheavies.
> You'll also get some fortifications - giant gun/missile emplacements and the like. These are also designed to hook up with the Wall of Martyrs terrain.
> As well as the Apocalypse rulebook, there's also a collector's edition and a gamer's edition.
> 
> via Opatija
> got some quick information about the upcoming release. It´s "just" what the employees were told, which in some cases is not very reliable:
> 
> - Apocalyspe is mostly about formations with some minor benefits for the "units"
> - There will be at least 2 waves for mini supply (Some of the missing miniatures will be released when their own 6th codex is)
> - Each army is going to get a super heavy, beeing asked about such a huge release, they were told to keep the Allied Forces in mind, leaving Tyranids aside (speculated as an Imperial/SM Multipart kit) which will hit at around 125,-€ (It´s quite possible that the Chaos thing and the Monolith are the only ones! And Baneblades/Shadowswords are accessable via Allied Forces!)
> - A large/multi part piece of Terrain fitting to the "Martyrs"-Line (80,-€/50,-€/30,-€)
> 
> All in all even the Employees are not very excited for the release so better don't expect to much when reading the rumours about those gigantic Release-Wave(s)
> 
> 
> Gamers Edition - it's going to include templates and dice but one very curious thing was said: "...containing a Apocalypse Rulebook in your language"
> It was specificaly mentioned. I would not have thought GW might release a English-Only Book....but then i was reminded of Dfts...
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Zion

Still Reserved.


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## jams

That megalith looks interesting. Not sure about the bloodknight though


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## DestroyerHive

Hold on, is that a brain in the Megalith?


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## Zion

DestroyerHive said:


> Hold on, is that a brain in the Megalith?


I actually don't know yet. Someone mentioned it might be a C'tan or C'tan shard but there has been a lack of information on it thus far.


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## DestroyerHive

> I actually don't know yet. Someone mentioned it might be a C'tan or C'tan shard but there has been a lack of information on it thus far.


A Shard eh? Now that would be very interesting...


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## darkreever

Wow, I might re-start Necrons just to eventually get ahold of the megalith, looks pretty cool.


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## Fallen

neither of those things interest me in the slightest - although they look super cool, and the Khorne thingy is a little too "Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers" to me.

----

still can't wait for the apoc book to come though.


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## Jacobite

While yes the Khorne tank thing does indeed look a lot like something out of power rangers I think its great that its non Imperial races getting toys. Thats awesome!


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## Madden

Thought that was a lord of battle not a bloodknight.

(yea apoc this is going to be a slooow month can't wait).


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## Chaosftw

Khorne thing looks stupid imho. Nothing about that model interests me. I suspect it will be around 200$ and just a nightmare to assemble/paint/use on the table.

As for the Necron megalith, it looks neat but I would be interested to see what kind of rules there are for it.


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## Zion

Madden said:


> Thought that was a lord of battle not a bloodknight.
> 
> (yea apoc this is going to be a slooow month can't wait).


Lord of Battle was the Epic unit which, while similiar, has some differences. This new model has aspects of both the Death Dealer and the Lord of Battle and until we get some kind of official name for it, I'm using the first one that was given when Stephen posted it.


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## Winterous

I like these.


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## Bubblematrix

Wow, never expected even a single kit with the re-run of apocalypse, let alone two (or more).

This could be an expensive quarter, I might just have to save a bit, sell a kidney and buy the phantom titan I have lusted after since it's release.


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## Archon Dan

Perhaps the Megalith will have the old Monolith rules and be nearly indestructible. Should be fun to see the new Apoc rules, units and formations of course.


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## MadCowCrazy

So currently IG has 2 super heavy tanks, Orks have the Walker and that's about it (I dont count in forge world).
I would expect SM to get something, they always get something.

Is that thing CSM or CD? Dual kit to make one for either of them?

Necron one seems interesting if you can open and close it during play, but model wise I think it's rather boring. Would rather have seen a larger tomb stalker or something.
Getting the technodome or whatever it's called from turtles is a bit meh.


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## AwesomusPrime

The Khorne thing looks super lame. And how do we fix things that are super lame? Make them 'lamer' until they are cool.

I can't wait, therefore, until someone motorizes it so the arms swing as it rolls forward on the battlefield like a battery operated robot from a dollar store. Bonus points if complete with lame digital roar sounds and blinking red lights.


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## MadCowCrazy

AwesomusPrime said:


> The Khorne thing looks super lame. And how do we fix things that are super lame? Make them 'lamer' until they are cool.
> 
> I can't wait, therefore, until someone motorizes it so the arms swing as it rolls forward on the battlefield like a battery operated robot from a dollar store. Bonus points if complete with lame digital roar sounds and blinking red lights.


I believe I just found the Spheezee Mehreenez new giant god machine!


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## falcoso

REally they called it a megalith? That's worse than the Death Ray - I'm really hoping that isn't it's official name, and it looks smaller than a monolith too so it's not exactly 'mega', but the way it opens up is awesome and I hope that is something c'tan related


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## Barnster

The old rules called the super monolith the doomsday monolith 

Lets hope it stays with that name


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## Zion

falcoso said:


> REally they called it a megalith? That's worse than the Death Ray - I'm really hoping that isn't it's official name, and it looks smaller than a monolith too so it's not exactly 'mega', but the way it opens up is awesome and I hope that is something c'tan related


As far as I know they aren't calling it a "megalith". I just needed a filler name until we had the real one. I appreciate you bashing my inability to name things by the way. 



Barnster said:


> The old rules called the super monolith the doomsday monolith
> 
> Lets hope it stays with that name


Not quite. *This* was the Doomsday Monolith:


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## Barnster

That has always been a horrid conversion. 

I imagine the new one shares quite a bit with the concept. I agree that it will have some differences and likely a crazy name. Necron Star Eater Fortress maybe?


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## Zion

Barnster said:


> That has always been a horrid conversion.
> 
> I imagine the new one shares quite a bit with the concept. I agree that it will have some differences and likely a crazy name. Necron Star Eater Fortress maybe?


Necron Molecular Basket Weaver.


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## MadCowCrazy

falcoso said:


> REally they called it a megalith? That's worse than the Death Ray - I'm really hoping that isn't it's official name, and it looks smaller than a monolith too so it's not exactly 'mega', but the way it opens up is awesome and I hope that is something c'tan related


Megalith comes from Beasts of War who took some childrens toy that kinda looked necronish and said they had an exclusive preview of the next apoc mini.






Anyway, Naftka got his site restored and posted this bit.
Source


> via an anonymous source (from the Faeit 212 inbox)
> I am getting small bits of information regarding the Apocalypse Supplement release.
> 
> Apocalypse
> Only the Imperial Guard and Orks are not getting an a new Apocalypse vehicle, but they could be getting new apoc aircraft. It seems so that all armies will have 1 apoc vehicle and 1 aircraft.
> 
> Forgeworld
> We should be seeing a FW apoc book same month as GW apoc release covering all vehicles and aircraft from previous apoc books


"It seems so that all armies will have 1 apoc vehicle and 1 aircraft."

As a Sisters of Battle player I seriously doubt this...

"all armies except the Sisters of Battle" would probably be a more accurate statement...


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## Zion

MadCowCrazy said:


> Megalith comes from Beasts of War who took some childrens toy that kinda looked necronish and said they had an exclusive preview of the next apoc mini.
> New Necron Megalith Revealed (April Fools From Old Channel) - YouTube
> 
> 
> Anyway, Naftka got his site restored and posted this bit.
> Source
> 
> 
> "It seems so that all armies will have 1 apoc vehicle and 1 aircraft."
> 
> As a Sisters of Battle player I seriously doubt this...
> 
> "all armies except the Sisters of Battle" would probably be a more accurate statement...


Maybe Sisters will just get variants of whatever the Guard have. I wouldn't mind a Stormlord if the Lascannons were Multi-melts or Heavy Bolters instead. It'd be the cheapest way for them to give the girls something afterall.

Granted that's being optimistic as hell, but I prefer to throw GW under the bus for the stuff they do, not the stuff they may or may not do.


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## Chaosftw

Shit I need to have at least 4 more kids, then sell off all organs so I can buy these outrageously priced models!!!


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## revilo44

Here is some stuff form feait 212
Via an anonymous source (from the Faeit 212 inbox)
I am getting small bits of information regarding the Apocalypse Supplement release.

Apocalypse
Only the Imperial Guard and Orks are not getting an a new Apocalypse vehicle, but they could be getting new apoc aircraft. It seems so that all armies will have 1 apoc vehicle and 1 aircraft.

Forgeworld
We should be seeing a FW apoc book same month as GW apoc release covering all vehicles and aircraft from previous apoc books


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## Archon Dan

Zion said:


> As far as I know they aren't calling it a "megalith". I just needed a filler name until we had the real one. I appreciate you bashing my inability to name things by the way.


To be fair. There is a fluff reference for the Megalith. It's in the 5th Ed Necron codex. But the description tells me it would be massive. It was disgorging Monoliths from its hull. Sadly, I do not have the codex handy for quotes or page numbers.


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## Zion

Archon Dan said:


> To be fair. There is a fluff reference for the Megalith. It's in the 5th Ed Necron codex. But the description tells me it would be massive. It was disgorging Monoliths from its hull. Sadly, I do not have the codex handy for quotes or page numbers.


When you take out the smilie like that when quoting me it looks much more asshole-ish. :/

Well either way until we get a better name we need something to call it, and I don't feel "Betty" is an appropriate choice.


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## AwesomusPrime

I support calling it the Necrodrome. It's like the technodrome... but Necro!


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## Winterous

Zion said:


> Well either way until we get a better name we need something to call it, and I don't feel "Betty" is an appropriate choice.


Tesseract?


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## Zion

Winterous said:


> Tesseract?


No, currently those are small objects that they can suck you inside of to wander an endless maze forever...


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## Winterous

Zion said:


> No, currently those are small objects that they can suck you inside of to wander an endless maze forever...


Alright, more obscure shapes...

Klein bottle?
Moebius strip?
Four-dimensional hypercube?


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## GrimzagGorwazza

I vote BotBox.....


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## normtheunsavoury




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## bitsandkits

normtheunsavoury said:


> New Necron Megalith Revealed (April Fools From Old Channel) - YouTube


i was pretty sure it was impossible for me to dislike beasts of war anymore than i do already! you proved me wrong norm


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## Zion

bitsandkits said:


> i was pretty sure it was impossible for me to dislike beasts of war anymore than i do already! you proved me wrong norm


The video is gone now, but they had an April Fool's video about a Sisters of Battle Titan.

It was a Barbie doll. 

That was the first video of theirs I saw and set my opinion of them preeeeeetty low.


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## Winterous

Zion said:


> The video is gone now, but they had an April Fool's video about a Sisters of Battle Titan.
> 
> It was a Barbie doll.
> 
> That was the first video of theirs I saw and set my opinion of them preeeeeetty low.


Hah!
I haven't seen anything of theirs before, but I don't think I want to now


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## falcoso

Zion said:


> As far as I know they aren't calling it a "megalith". I just needed a filler name until we had the real one. I appreciate you bashing my inability to name things by the way.


Didn't mean to bash, as a filler name it does the job - just not a proper unit name :laugh:, and it was because of the Beasts of War thing that made me sceptical. My firend actually thought GW had made a megalith with mechanised parts and that they had somehow got a hold of one... only he found it 3 months after it was put up...


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## Zion

falcoso said:


> Didn't mean to bash, as a filler name it does the job - just not a proper unit name :laugh:, and it was because of the Beasts of War thing that made me sceptical. My firend actually thought GW had made a megalith with mechanised parts and that they had somehow got a hold of one... only he found it 3 months after it was put up...


Oh don't worry about it, I was just ribbing you about it. I know I horribly suck at giving names to things.


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## The Sturk

I feel that it may infact be called the Megalith, as if you recall, a Megalith is mentioned in one of the battles in the Necron codex.


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## AwesomusPrime

No love for the Necrodrome?


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## Zion

So let's get this train back on track with some stuff from Darog's Company:



> - New Apocalypse rules - Khorne and Necrons focused (2 new types of Monolith rumoured)
> 
> A large Imperial Walker, (smaller than a warhound titan)
> Possible Chaos Variant (might have been mistaken for the Lord of Battles)
> 
> Missing plastic models known to be created but possibly held back for the Apocalypse release:
> -Eldar Bomber
> -Eldar "large hover tank"
> -IG Hydra
> -IG Medusa / Colossus
> -Tyranid Harpy
> 
> via Faeit 212
> 
> Apocalypse
> Only the Imperial Guard and Orks are not getting an a new Apocalypse vehicle, but they could be getting new apoc aircraft. It seems so that all armies will have 1 1 apoc vehicle and aircraft.
> 
> Forgeworld
> We should be seeing a FW apoc book same month as GW apoc release covering all vehicles and aircraft from previous apoc books


----------



## MadCowCrazy

Zion said:


> -Eldar Bomber


I think this should be Dark Eldar Bomber. It was rumoured some year(s) ago that we'd see the above list as part of the Summer of Fliers. Had the same list but with the DE Bomber as they never got theirs.


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## Bindi Baji

Zion said:


> So let's get this train back on track with some stuff from Darog's Company:





> -IG Hydra
> -IG Medusa / Colossus
> -Tyranid Harpy


expect to see these next year, not in an apocalypse release though........................................


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## MadCowCrazy

Bindi Baji said:


> expect to see these next year, not in an apocalypse release though........................................


Some random guy on 4chan said "I talked to some people and they said we'd see SM, Orks and SoB before the end of the year". I dont care about the first two but you heard anything about SoB?


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## Zion

MadCowCrazy said:


> I think this should be Dark Eldar Bomber. It was rumoured some year(s) ago that we'd see the above list as part of the Summer of Fliers. Had the same list but with the DE Bomber as they never got theirs.


That's what I went with in the summary post. I've heard of a Dark Eldar bomber and we just got a regular Eldar one so we don't need another. Hence DE Bomber.



Bindi Baji said:


> expect to see these next year, not in an apocalypse release though........................................


Seeing as FW already makes these I didn't even expect to see these then. The models already exist and GW possibly isn't going to take that away after taking the Baneblade from FW hurt them fiscally for a bit.



MadCowCrazy said:


> Some random guy on 4chan said "I talked to some people and they said we'd see SM, Orks and SoB before the end of the year". I dont care about the first two but you heard anything about SoB?


I don't buy it personally. The schedule we have has correctly ticked off Tau, Eldar and Apoc over the last couple months and doesn't have Orks or Sisters.

And Nids are supposed to be the first book of 2014 at this point.


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## Bindi Baji

MadCowCrazy said:


> Some random guy on 4chan said "I talked to some people and they said we'd see SM, Orks and SoB before the end of the year". I dont care about the first two but you heard anything about SoB?


SM in a few months time and SOB late next year, on orks I have heard contradictory things but probably next year given the way releases are going - definitely no room this year though!



Zion said:


> Seeing as FW already makes these I didn't even expect to see these then. The models already exist and GW possibly isn't going to take that away after taking the Baneblade from FW hurt them fiscally for a bit..


:blush:
erm, took a trip down cock up lane there,
-IG Medusa / Colossus was supposed to have been deleted out





Zion said:


> And Nids are supposed to be the first book of 2014 at this point.


The first Codex of 2014 anyway,
there may be an army book first


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## Kettu

Hey Bindi.

Don't suppose you know anything about insinuation that Sisters will get something with this Appoc update?
Or is the classical GW 'Everyone' which is ultimately 'Everyone But...'?


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## Zion

Bindi Baji said:


> SM in a few months time and SOB late next year, on orks I have heard contradictory things but probably next year given the way releases are going - definitely no room this year though!


Good to hear our schedule at the moment is looking good. I also like the fact that I may have worked out where Sisters could be appearing through blunt logic (as I've made a few statements over the last couple months of late 2014 being the earliest I'd expect them in the current schedule). :laugh:



Bindi Baji said:


> :blush:
> erm, took a trip down cock up lane there,
> -IG Medusa / Colossus was supposed to have been deleted out


It's quite alright, it happens to us all now and then. I'm still personally skeptical about the Hydra, but that's because FW also makes one already, but that's just my point of view on it because of the claims that GW won't make plastic kits out of any more FW models.




Bindi Baji said:


> The first Codex of 2014 anyway,
> there may be an army book first


Fair point, but something I would be surprised by with 2013 supposed to be ending with Fantasy as the last major book release (outside of the Hobbit that is).



Kettu said:


> Hey Bindi.
> 
> Don't suppose you know anything about insinuation that Sisters will get something with this Appoc update?
> Or is the classical GW 'Everyone' which is ultimately 'Everyone But...'?


I can't speak for Bindi, but I haven't seen anything so far beyond those two pictures. I'm keeping a look out but there is a lot of talk about those models so far and some older rumours I've already added and that's it for now. I'm sure by the time we get to the second half of June we'll see it pick up more.

What has me surprised is someone got the cover picture, and a picture of the inside but hasn't leaked the rest of the magazine and GW hasn't been slapping anyone for this yet, almost a week later. 

Could this be a GW viral marketing attempt to hype the new release by faking a leak?

EDIT:
Faeit212 has some pricing information:


> via anonymous source (from the Faeit 212 inbox)
> the Apocalypse release will be three books
> -The Standard Book Edition will be 60,00€
> -There will also be a Collectors edition, but no price as of yet
> -A Big Gamers Edition for 200,00€ (Something very big in it)


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## Winterous

Zion said:


> It's quite alright, it happens to us all now and then. I'm still personally skeptical about the Hydra, but that's because FW also makes one already, but that's just my point of view on it because of the claims that GW won't make plastic kits out of any more FW models.


In the case of units in the core game, they really bloody should do a kit.
Most people probably just make their own, anyway.


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## Zion

Winterous said:


> In the case of units in the core game, they really bloody should do a kit.
> Most people probably just make their own, anyway.


Honestly I disagree. We're getting to the point where you can get most things from FW at a similar price to GW and having more cross over between them would help blur that line between the two so we might see FW stop being such a taboo subject for so many people. I mean the models are there, they look good, and they're priced closely to GW plastic models so why not standardize them and bring them into the main game too?


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## Winterous

Zion said:


> Honestly I disagree. We're getting to the point where you can get most things from FW at a similar price to GW and having more cross over between them would help blur that line between the two so we might see FW stop being such a taboo subject for so many people. I mean the models are there, they look good, and they're priced closely to GW plastic models so why not standardize them and bring them into the main game too?


Because in my experience resin just isn't a good material.
It's cheap to produce things with for sure, but it's easily deformed.

I won't use any finecast models at all and I'd hesitate to buy anything from Forgeworld, I liked metal more than finecast.
I'm working on learning to use Blender so I can just design my own models to be printed by Shapeways, because to to sculpt and cast them myself I'd still have to use resin.


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## Zion

Winterous said:


> Because in my experience resin just isn't a good material.
> It's cheap to produce things with for sure, but it's easily deformed.
> 
> I won't use any finecast models at all and I'd hesitate to buy anything from Forgeworld, I liked metal more than finecast.
> I'm working on learning to use Blender so I can just design my own models to be printed by Shapeways, because to to sculpt and cast them myself I'd still have to use resin.


To be fair I live in a temperate zone, and you live in a country where resin melts 9 months out of the year.

That aside, Forgeworld does not use Finecast. They use a different, denser and more expensive resin material and always have. It's still resin, but it's better stuff. And as long as it's not horribly screwed up it's fixable with hot water and patience.


----------



## Winterous

Zion said:


> To be fair I live in a temperate zone, and you live in a country where resin melts 9 months out of the year.


Fucking Australia xD



Zion said:


> That aside, Forgeworld does not use Finecast. They use a different, denser and more expensive resin material and always have. It's still resin, but it's better stuff. And as long as it's not horribly screwed up it's fixable with hot water and patience.


Yeah I knew their stuff was denser, still didn't trust it.
Well I guess it'd probably be ok then, only thin bits would be a problem I imagine.

*edit*
Also watch this.
http://youtu.be/Fl0TEtHvvO0


----------



## Bindi Baji

Kettu said:


> Hey Bindi.
> 
> Don't suppose you know anything about insinuation that Sisters will get something with this Appoc update?
> Or is the classical GW 'Everyone' which is ultimately 'Everyone But...'?


Sorry, missed this one,

I genuinely doubt we'll see anything SOB wise until the codex is released


----------



## Kettu

Zion said:


> Good to hear our schedule at the moment is looking good. I also like the fact that I may have worked out where Sisters could be appearing through blunt logic (as I've made a few statements over the last couple months of late 2014 being the earliest I'd expect them in the current schedule). :laugh:


I used to say much the same... Two years ago. (or longer, I can't quite remember anymore)

As always I do truly hope my cynicism is wrong and they and their gloriously detailed multipart plastics are just around the proverbial corner but there is always a risk in applying logic to GW here.



Zion said:


> It's quite alright, it happens to us all now and then. I'm still personally skeptical about the Hydra, but that's because FW also makes one already, but that's just my point of view on it because of the claims that GW won't make plastic kits out of any more FW models.


Is this something that was said to be an actual rule? I've heard it a lot and it does make sense to minimise competition with yourself because it only ends hurting yourself twice but I honestly don't see why GW and FW couldn't have 'small' kits run in competition with each other. Especially as it uses a pre-existing tank body so tooling costs are somewhat limited keeping overall overhead costs down.



Zion said:


> I can't speak for Bindi, but I haven't seen anything so far beyond those two pictures. I'm keeping a look out but there is a lot of talk about those models so far and some older rumours I've already added and that's it for now. I'm sure by the time we get to the second half of June we'll see it pick up more.
> 
> What has me surprised is someone got the cover picture, and a picture of the inside but hasn't leaked the rest of the magazine and GW hasn't been slapping anyone for this yet, almost a week later.
> 
> Could this be a GW viral marketing attempt to hype the new release by faking a leak?


I have this thread bookmarked to keep up with the information though I doubt it'll break my GW fast I have had going for so long now. Although that Wraith Knight does look rather fancy...

As for the conspicuous lack of information, this isn't unusual as many factors (Like Apathy and Lack of Fore-Thought) come into play when it comes to sharing around.
However, internal 'leaks' are also norm these days as well.

It's unlikely we'll find out and sadly we are probably stuck like this till real late June.

---



Bindi Baji said:


> Sorry, missed this one,
> 
> I genuinely doubt we'll see anything SOB wise until the codex is released


Thanks anyway.


----------



## Bubblematrix

The hydra really lends itself to being in a kit with another imperial chasis model, but with FW already making them and the statement (can't find the source again) that they don't like competing with their own company, I would expect this to wait out - but there have always been surprises.

I think the statement about FW was more a "don't expect the flyers to be the same ones" statement, if I recall the timing correctly.

Are there any other holes in the imperial tank plastics?


----------



## Winterous

Bubblematrix said:


> The hydra really lends itself to being in a kit with another imperial chasis model, but with FW already making them and the statement (can't find the source again) that they don't like competing with their own company, I would expect this to wait out - but there have always been surprises.
> 
> I think the statement about FW was more a "don't expect the flyers to be the same ones" statement, if I recall the timing correctly.
> 
> Are there any other holes in the imperial tank plastics?


Just the artillery and the Hydra, everything else has a kit.
Except Vendettas, of course, they're yet to be given a plastic conversion kit.


----------



## Tawa

Bindi Baji said:


> I genuinely doubt we'll see anything SOB wise until the codex is released


Ooh, goosebumps..... :blush:


----------



## Bindi Baji

Bubblematrix said:


> The hydra really lends itself to being in a kit with another imperial chasis model, but with FW already making them and the statement (can't find the source again) that they don't like competing with their own company


I wouldn't put too much weight into the "statement", 
it's either made up or an off hand comment, 
the baneblade decision was long planned and they aren't competing against themselves as it's just a natural progression for something that sells well and fits in.


----------



## Zion

Bindi Baji said:


> I wouldn't put too much weight into the "statement",
> it's either made up or an off hand comment,
> the baneblade decision was long planned and they aren't competing against themselves as it's just a natural progression for something that sells well and fits in.


It was something that was said after the Baneblade went plastic. Apparently taking that from FW actually resulted in some sales drops for FW and a loss of revenue for them.

Yes I know the money stays in house, but they seem to track sales separately for the two and most likely allocate budget accordingly.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Zion said:


> It was something that was said after the Baneblade went plastic. Apparently taking that from FW actually resulted in some sales drops for GW and a loss of revenue for them.


Except I'm fairly certain it wasn't a quote from forgeworld, 
forgeworld (and gw in general) try to stay away from financial quotes as often as possible.
I think it's something that has been repeated so many times it has become remembered as being true............


----------



## Zion

Bindi Baji said:


> Except I'm fairly certain it wasn't a quote from forgeworld,
> forgeworld (and gw in general) try to stay away from financial quotes as often as possible.
> I think it's something that has been repeated so many times it has become remembered as being true............


From my understanding of this it was something that is claimed to have come out of GW when asked if they'd do more plastic kits of FW's stuff. From what I recall it was basically a reply that they didn't want to tread on each other's toes again, and the fiscal part of it may have just been speculation.

But not that it really matters if it's true because GW has flipped-flopped on things before. They killed supplement books and now they're back after all.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Zion said:


> From my understanding of this it was something that is claimed to have come out of GW when asked if they'd do more plastic kits of FW's stuff. From what I recall it was basically a reply that they didn't want to tread on each other's toes again, and the fiscal part of it may have just been speculation.


In the grand scheme of things it's not that important and it's not like it's something I know for a fact anyway


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Out of curiosity, how does Apocalypse work? I've heard that its for games on scales far grander than normal gameplay, but, is there anything genuinely different about it that is not related to models like Titans and such?


----------



## scscofield

It is a way to slap your wallet penis down onto the board.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Out of curiosity, how does Apocalypse work? I've heard that its for games on scales far grander than normal gameplay, but, is there anything genuinely different about it that is not related to models like Titans and such?


Well there isn't a real FOC, you play _much_ larger games and can bring superheavies, gargantuan creatures, formations of units who gain new abilities and generally roll LOTS of dice and watch dozens of models explode at the same time


----------



## Kettu

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Out of curiosity, how does Apocalypse work? I've heard that its for games on scales far grander than normal gameplay, but, is there anything genuinely different about it that is not related to models like Titans and such?


In a nutshell, you and your opponent agree to fight an Apoc battle.
It's generally 3,000 points or higher, FOC and the Ally Matrix no longer apply, FW & Titans & Super Heavy Tanks are all allowed, Giant sized templates are featured and 'D' Strength Weapons are featured. (Essentially it's 40K's Chunky Salsa Rule)

Can be fun, can be annoying, can be a hard lesson in 'Who Pays, Wins' and is more or less an excuse to play every single mini you own all at the same time.


----------



## Barnster

Theres also the special tactics that each army gets (forgotten the official name)

So that maybe your super heavy will come back from the dead, a baneblade may infiltrate, your necrons stand up more, your tau fire a special missile orks may have a rok to come crashing down 

Its fun but can be incredibly frustrating


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Pfft. Apocalypse; Fancy table setting with toys using special rules. All it is. I love huge battles but by the 8 hour mark... I need a chair.


----------



## Codex Todd

Karyudo-DS said:


> by the 8 hour mark... I need a chair.


Why not just turn up with a chair??


----------



## Zion

Codex Todd said:


> Why not just turn up with a chair??


Or use one that's there. Heck during your opponent's movement phase you basically have like 15+ minutes (an hour if they don't have tanks) so you can easily take a break, go get a sandwich and come back.


----------



## Zion

Looks like things are crawling out of the woodwork at the moment about this release, so here's what we've got at the moment:



> *via BramGaunt over on Warseer*
> 1st: There is a new rulebook, if anyone still questioned that. Complete overhaul. The scale of additional shenanigans will be the same as with a regular rulebook, as well as limited items. Probably a collectors- and a gamers edition aswell (allthough I am only guessing that!).
> 
> 2nd: The kits we have seen so far cover all the miniatures there will be for now (Khorne "Skulldozer" and Necron "Monolith of Doom + 2D6"). However, there are three new pieces of terrain, which apperantly are of apocalyptic size. A different source told me of a 'commad citadel' behind which the Wraithknight could easily hide.
> 
> 3rd: Releasedate is the 13th of July, with Preorders starting the 29th (with the new WD, as usual). This is GW's big release this year.





> *Via Warseer's The Dark General*
> It's a dual kit approx size of baneblade box, but taller model. Makes either the Deathdealer or Lord of Battles.
> 
> Also there's a bunch of new data sheets, inlcuding some for those of us that bought multiple NEW models
> 
> It's also NOT the only Chaos models coming out, along with a few other Khorne...speedy guys...
> 
> Approx price is $125
> 
> 
> *via Best_Pone*
> Let's see now...
> You've already seen the Chaos and Necron superheavies.
> You'll also get some fortifications - giant gun/missile emplacements and the like. These are also designed to hook up with the Wall of Martyrs terrain.
> As well as the Apocalypse rulebook, there's also a collector's edition and a gamer's edition.
> 
> *via Opatija *
> got some quick information about the upcoming release. It´s "just" what the employees were told, which in some cases is not very reliable:
> 
> - Apocalyspe is mostly about formations with some minor benefits for the "units"
> - There will be at least 2 waves for mini supply (Some of the missing miniatures will be released when their own 6th codex is)
> - Each army is going to get a super heavy, beeing asked about such a huge release, they were told to keep the Allied Forces in mind, leaving Tyranids aside (speculated as an Imperial/SM Multipart kit) which will hit at around 125,-€ (It´s quite possible that the Chaos thing and the Monolith are the only ones! And Baneblades/Shadowswords are accessable via Allied Forces!)
> - A large/multi part piece of Terrain fitting to the "Martyrs"-Line (80,-€/50,-€/30,-€)
> 
> All in all even the Employees are not very excited for the release so better don't expect to much when reading the rumours about those gigantic Release-Wave(s)
> 
> 
> Gamers Edition - it's going to include templates and dice but one very curious thing was said: "...containing a Apocalypse Rulebook in your language"
> It was specificaly mentioned. I would not have thought GW might release a English-Only Book....but then i was reminded of Dfts...


EDIT: I've updated the first post to cover the new information as well.


----------



## Kettu

> - Each army is going to get a super heavy, beeing asked about such a huge release, they were told to keep the Allied Forces in mind, leaving Tyranids aside (speculated as an Imperial/SM Multipart kit) which will hit at around 125,-€ (It´s quite possible that the Chaos thing and the Monolith are the only ones! And Baneblades/Shadowswords are accessable via Allied Forces!)


Is anyone else reading this the same way as me here? Did they just say that 'every' army will get a super heavy as long as you use the ally matrix?

So... Baneblade, Stompa, 'Khorne-dozer' and 'MegaNecroLith' basically cover every army then? (Nids just brain-slug the driver)

Or were they just fumbling their words and we'll actually see a Marine SH, Nid SH, Tau SH, Eldar SH, DE SH & **Cough** SoB SH :sarcastichand: at least some time in the next year or three?

I honestly can't tell here.

Post-Script
What is Dfts?


----------



## Winterous

Kettu said:


> What is Dfts?


Death From The Overpriced Errata.


----------



## Zion

Kettu said:


> Is anyone else reading this the same way as me here? Did they just say that 'every' army will get a super heavy as long as you use the ally matrix?
> 
> So... Baneblade, Stompa, 'Khorne-dozer' and 'MegaNecroLith' basically cover every army then? (Nids just brain-slug the driver)
> 
> Or were they just fumbling their words and we'll actually see a Marine SH, Nid SH, Tau SH, Eldar SH, DE SH & **Cough** SoB SH :sarcastichand: at least some time in the next year or three?
> 
> I honestly can't tell here.
> 
> Post-Script
> What is Dfts?


From what I could guess based on what they said, every army will have access to a superheavy (except Nids who use Gargantuan Creatures), though some will be doing that through the allies matrix.

I think it's "Death From the Skies".



Winterous said:


> Death From The Overpriced Errata.


You know, the joke only works if you use all the right letters.


----------



## Winterous

Zion said:


> You know, the joke only works if you use all the right letters.


Death From The overpriced errataS.


----------



## Zion

Winterous said:


> Death From The overpriced errataS.


Why not "Death From the Overpriced Supplement"?


----------



## Winterous

Zion said:


> Why not "Death From the Overpriced Supplement"?


Because I'm not as clever as you


----------



## Bindi Baji

> hese are also designed to hook up with the Wall of Martyrs terrain


Have heard a lot of chatter about this kind of thing, sounds like it's just generic imperial stuff before any xenos fans ask.

Does anyone know how well the scenery sells, especially the bastion and the bunker?


----------



## Zion

Bindi Baji said:


> Have heard a lot of chatter about this kind of thing, sounds like it's just generic imperial stuff before any xenos fans ask.
> 
> Does anyone know how well the scenery sells, especially the bastion and the bunker?


I don't know too much exactly, but the Aegis is the one seems to be the big seller in general though. Then again it's cheapest one to use and you can use it and hold an objective at the same time.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Zion said:


> I don't know too much exactly, but the Aegis is the one seems to be the big seller in general though. Then again it's cheapest one to use and you can use it and hold an objective at the same time.


They seem to have usually sold out whenever I happen to pop into a branch, there is usually loads of the wall of martyrs parts but rarely any bastions, just as well as it's one of those things I would pick up if I had the cash on me, lol


----------



## revilo44

this was on feait 
i think it is just a round up but i will post it anyway 


via BramGaunt over on Warseer
1st: There is a new rulebook, if anyone still questioned that. Complete overhaul. The scale of additional shenanigans will be the same as with a regular rulebook, as well as limited items. Probably a collectors- and a gamers edition aswell (allthough I am only guessing that!).

2nd: The kits we have seen so far cover all the miniatures there will be for now (Khorne "Skulldozer" and Necron "Monolith of Doom + 2D6"). However, there are three new pieces of terrain, which apperantly are of apocalyptic size. A different source told me of a 'commad citadel' behind which the Wraithknight could easily hide. 


3rd: Releasedate is the 13th of July, with Preorders starting the 29th (with the new WD, as usual). This is GW's big release this year.

via Best_Pone on Warseer
You'll also get some fortifications - giant gun/missile emplacements and the like. These are also designed to hook up with the Wall of Martyrs terrain.
As well as the Apocalypse rulebook, there's also a collector's edition and a gamer's edition.

via Opatija on Warseer
got some quick information about the upcoming release. It´s "just" what the employees were told

- Apocalyspe is mostly about formations with some minor benefits for the "units"
- There will be at least 2 waves for mini supply (Some of the missing miniatures will be released when their own 6th codex is)
- Each army is going to get a super heavy, beeing asked about such a huge release, they were told to keep the Allied Forces in mind, leaving Tyranids aside (speculated as an Imperial/SM Multipart kit) which will hit at around 125,-€ (It´s quite possible that the Chaos thing and the Monolith are the only ones! And Baneblades/Shadowswords are accessable via Allied Forces!)
- A large/multi part piece of Terrain fitting to the "Martyrs"-Line (80,-€/50,-€/30,-€)

Gamers Edition - it's going to include templates and dice but one very curious thing was said: "...containing a Apocalypse Rulebook in your language"

It was specificaly mentioned. I would not have thought GW might release a English-Only Book....but then i was reminded of Dfts...

Via The Dark General on Warseer
It's a dual kit approx size of baneblade box, but taller model. Makes either the Deathdealer or Lord of Battles.

Also there's a bunch of new data sheets, inlcuding some for those of us that bought multiple NEW models

It's also NOT the only Chaos models coming out, along with a few other Khorne...speedy guys...


Approx price is $125







Eldar Flyer Kits
There is a missing Eldar bomber from the rumor mill, that may or may not be in fact the long awaited Dark Eldar Voidraven. Reports are mixed, and so are the rumors. Either way, something is out there, and even if its the Dark Eldar Voidraven, we are all waiting.

via Bigred over in the Bols Lounge
If you remember, there was chatter for months over TWO Eldar flyer kits that were in production.

The two fighters in the Crimson Hunter/Hemlock box was one AND there was a larger bomber that was sighted by sources. Its possible this bomber is being held for either a second Eldar wave, or Apocalypse. In anycase that bomber didn't ship in the codex-release wave.

The things you will notice compared to the fighter are:

-Lengthier fuselage
-Wider wingspan without the forward curving wings of the fighters
-Dual closely mounted engines per wing (4 engines in total)
-Dual cockpits (pilot and gunner)
-Probably bombs underslung as wel


----------



## Zion

Yeah, just a collection, I don't see anything new in there.

I expect things will ramp up in about a week or so though.


----------



## Bubblematrix

A big Eldar bomber would make this an even more expensive month for me, apoc book plus some more wraithguard to bolster the apoc army was already a wallet killer but another flyer would be costly - I would guess tho that as Eldar have just had a wave of toys we won't see any more for some time as the wraithknight easily soaks any spare pennies.


----------



## revilo44

This is via Old-Four-Arms on Warseer 
on the GW site in the description of the Imperial Bunker :

"The Imperial Bunker can be combined with the Wall of Martyrs scenery range including the Imperial Defence Line, Aquila Strongpoint, Firestorm Redoubt, Vengeance Weapon Battery, and the Imperial Defence Emplacement. The only limit to how big your Wall of Martyrs set can be is your imagination (and probably the size of your gaming table)."

Aquila Strongpoint, Firestorm Redoubt and Vengeance Weapon Battery could be the 3 new apoc terrain pieces...


----------



## Tawa

revilo44 said:


> This is via Old-Four-Arms on Warseer
> on the GW site in the description of the Imperial Bunker :
> 
> "The Imperial Bunker can be combined with the Wall of Martyrs scenery range including the Imperial Defence Line, Aquila Strongpoint, Firestorm Redoubt, Vengeance Weapon Battery, and the Imperial Defence Emplacement. The only limit to how big your Wall of Martyrs set can be is your imagination (and probably the size of your gaming table)."
> 
> Aquila Strongpoint, Firestorm Redoubt and Vengeance Weapon Battery could be the 3 new apoc terrain pieces...


Squeeee!!!!! :yahoo:


----------



## ipwnuevryday

Has anyone else seen that picture that looks like a chaotic minotaur with a gatling gun? I'm not sure if it's an actual thing but I've seen pictures...


----------



## revilo44

ipwnuevryday said:


> Has anyone else seen that picture that looks like a chaotic minotaur with a gatling gun? I'm not sure if it's an actual thing but I've seen pictures...


I don't think so. Do you think you could post a picture of this.


----------



## Zion

ipwnuevryday said:


> Has anyone else seen that picture that looks like a chaotic minotaur with a gatling gun? I'm not sure if it's an actual thing but I've seen pictures...


You mean the big thing we have at the beginning of the thread with the gatling gun, giant axe and a tank for the lower half of the body, or something else?


----------



## ipwnuevryday

Here's a picture, I'm not sure what it is though :/


----------



## Bindi Baji

ipwnuevryday said:


> Here's a picture, I'm not sure what it is though :/


that's an old epic chaos war machine thingumy, have one stored away somewhere


----------



## Codex Todd

ipwnuevryday said:


> Here's a picture, I'm not sure what it is though :/


Lord of Battles Daemon Engine of Khorne


----------



## bitsandkits

thought we might have had some more leaked photos by now, this is worse than the eldar release for lack of actual confirmed models etc.


----------



## Zion

bitsandkits said:


> thought we might have had some more leaked photos by now, this is worse than the eldar release for lack of actual confirmed models etc.


With word of a 2 week long preorder (I'm betting so they can FINALLY meet demand without delays again) we'll likely see things soon, and once the pre-order starts GW will begin taunting us with even more stuff that we can distill into actual facts.


----------



## Winterous

Zion said:


> stuff that we can distill into actual facts.


Pssht, wild speculation tastes so much better.


----------



## Zion

Winterous said:


> Pssht, wild speculation tastes so much better.


And that's why it causes cancer.


----------



## GrimzagGorwazza

Zion said:


> And that's why it causes cancer.


pfft, everything causes cancer these days. Cigars, too much booze, too much sun, too little sex, too much sex, eating uranium, swimming in toxic waste. They just don't want us to have any fun.
Slap a warning label on it and let the wild speculation begin.

I heard that the sisters were getting a superheavy cathedral on tracks.


----------



## Zion

So some actual news:

Baneblade and Shadowsword are listed as "No Longer Available" on the GW site.

Personally I doubt they're gone for good, just perhaps in a holding pattern until the release.


----------



## Jacobite

Zion said:


> Personally I doubt they're gone for good, just perhaps in a holding pattern until the release.


Possibly a sprue recut? Bundle them both into the same kit, up the price a bit (obviously). But yeah there is no way they are discontinuing that kit!


----------



## Winterous

They might be adding more options to each, for more variations of the tank.


----------



## Da Joka

GrimzagGorwazza said:


> pfft, everything causes cancer these days. Cigars, too much booze, too much sun, too little sex, too much sex, eating uranium, swimming in toxic waste. They just don't want us to have any fun.


Too little sex? Well shit... I must be riddled with Cancer by now...


----------



## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH

News from GW today. Well, not news or anything really other than a teaser with a date:

Linky

Also, for saving times sake:






Something apocalyptic this way cometh I suspect.


----------



## revilo44

Hum. I wonder what this is(says in a sarcastic tone)


----------



## Bindi Baji

Zion said:


> So some actual news:
> 
> Baneblade and Shadowsword are listed as "No Longer Available" on the GW site.
> 
> Personally I doubt they're gone for good, just perhaps in a holding pattern until the release.


or it could be down to a new box...............(i'm not saying it is)


----------



## elmir

bitsandkits said:


> thought we might have had some more leaked photos by now, this is worse than the eldar release for lack of actual confirmed models etc.


Interesting point. GW might have figured out a way to stop the leaks after all.

Next week should see pre-orders.

Although, from what I could tell, it's just 2 models and some terrain, with a rulebook. Seems to be in line with storm of magic (rulebook, some monsters and then mostly terrain).


----------



## Jacobite

elmir said:


> Although, from what I could tell, it's just 2 models and some terrain, with a rulebook. Seems to be in line with storm of magic (rulebook, some monsters and then mostly terrain).


Thats the reason I think we haven't seen much leaks because there isn't actually much they are going to be releasing model wise. It's not like a new codex release where there is heaps of shinys.


----------



## DavC8855

*War is Coming*

White Dwarf Daily | Games Workshop

Apocalypse?


----------



## redmapa

Apocalypse


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Those videos ain't getting any better are they...


----------



## redmapa

I hope there'll be bundles with discounts, even though I doubt it..


----------



## Da Joka

normtheunsavoury said:


> Those videos ain't getting any better are they...


I actually like this one... it shows an entire planet at war. Also I love the first quote.


----------



## Archon Dan

Ooh. Fancy quotes and explosions visible from low orbit. Certainly sets the mood but a little cliché.


----------



## Zion

Threads merged due to being the same topic. 

Nothing personal, just trying to keep the forum a little tidier so we aren't running multiple threads on the same news/rumours.


----------



## Da Joka

Archon Dan said:


> Ooh. Fancy quotes and explosions visible from low orbit. Certainly sets the mood but a little cliché.


I agree, it could have been better, but I still think it's the best one in a while.

Personally I would have had a split second at the end of a Stompa getting ready to charge that new Chaos Super Heavy or something... you know actually show off the models. buuuut that's just me..


----------



## Fallen

Da Joka said:


> I agree, it could have been better, but I still think it's the best one in a while.


...

so in other words you have set your expectations so low, that you will never be disappointed.

I'm not sure if that's the route I ever want to take/expect for any company that I support..."Oh, well I just expect it to fucking suck a donkey cock, so if it only sucked pig cock it still involved bacon."


----------



## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH

normtheunsavoury said:


> Those videos ain't getting any better are they...


I think it's an experiment. GW is trying to see how mindboggingly boring, lame, retarded, clichéd or just plain crappy videos they can produce until someone, somewhere finally has teaser/presentation-induced mental breakdown. Upon finding this, they up the quality one notch to bring it to the lowest possible quality point and bringing the rest of their releases down to the same standard.

That way, GW can keep control of their customers for minimal expense by preventing the near-comatose community from fighting back due to fatigue and despair, yet still providing them enough proverbial life-support to maintain their interest. 

Soon GW will have perfected mind control technology and there is nothing we can do to stop it!


----------



## Zion

Fallen said:


> ...
> 
> so in other words you have set your expectations so low, that you will never be disappointed.
> 
> I'm not sure if that's the route I ever want to take/expect for any company that I support..."Oh, well I just expect it to fucking suck a donkey cock, so if it only sucked pig cock it still involved bacon."


Oddly enough I go with starting my day with: "Well I'm not on fire."

Some say I'm too negative, I just say I can never be truly disappointed.


----------



## AwesomusPrime

I've got kids, if something doesn't permanently negatively alter my life, it's good enough. Therefore I approve this video.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

What exactly would you expect from a teaser video ? 

The whole point of the thing is to be cryptic and hint at possible outcomes to give ppl something to talk about.


----------



## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH

Magpie_Oz said:


> What exactly would you expect from a teaser video ?
> 
> The whole point of the thing is to be cryptic and hint at possible outcomes to give ppl something to talk about.


True as that may be, I've still seen grandma titties that titilated me more than GW's teasers. Maybe if they used grandmas approach and showed just a little bit of the goodies, like a name of a kit or a partial picture, I could be more interested. 
GW are just pretty bad at presenting anything really whereas grandma has always been an unbelievable tease. She could teach them a thing or two about presentations.


----------



## revilo44

Incoming news guys 

Xenos terrain fans rejoice, and celebrate. It appears new things are on the way. Not to mention that it appears the scenery and fortifications for Apocalypse will have their own rules that are legal for your standard game of 40k and planetstrike. 

via an anonymous source via the Faeit 212 inbox (reliable source)
Not every race is getting a super-heavy, just access to them via Allies. The focus on apocalypse is new scenery and fortifications, with their own rules, that are legal for games of 40k and planetstrike as centerpieces and objectives. Expect a lot more racially specific fortifications as well as more "imperial/generic" stuff in 2014 Q2.


----------



## Djinn24

I'd be happy with eldar terrain. A Webway would be the shit.


----------



## Archon Dan

Hmm. Xenos terrain would be really nice. Here's hoping. Though Apocalypse is an odd time to add fortifications over super heavy units. Feels more like a Planetstrike thing.


----------



## Fallen

Archon Dan said:


> Hmm. Xenos terrain would be really nice. Here's hoping. Though Apocalypse is an odd time to add fortifications over super heavy units. Feels more like a Planetstrike thing.


Terrain is always good, and if at the least it give people ideas on how to build terrain for xenos (and a blue print too).

hopefully the terrain will be "open" and not on top of itself like the Imperium's buildings...trying to fit models into a tight space sucks.:angry:

maybe GW will bring back some nice deals like from the last go around, like a box of 10 russ':so_happy:


----------



## Macas

Got these pics of Dakka Dakka.

































MadCowCrazy: Edited to show the pics rather than links


----------



## renren

http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...m/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Bg-rElUYGX0

new vid


----------



## Archon Dan

The WD pictures look like those will be some nicely detailed models. I like the new teaser video too. You know when you spot a Titan that you're screwed.


----------



## Zion

Macas said:


> Got these pics of Dakka Dakka.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MadCowCrazy: Edited to show the pics rather than links


Nice find there. I've been waiting for more stuff to come out, but looks like this slipped out over the night.


----------



## Fallen

lord executioner = yes, yes, yes.

the other stuffs...not really.


----------



## revilo44

I agree with fallen that These look ok. The lord executioner is the only one I will buy. Hope that choas may get something like this .


----------



## Deneris

Meh... I just see yet MOAR loyalist marines. Give us some more Chaos, please...


----------



## Zion

Deneris said:


> Meh... I just see yet MOAR loyalist marines. Give us some more Chaos, please...


You mean beyond the Lord of Battle superheavy?


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Zion said:


> You mean beyond the Lord of Battle superheavy?


Yeah, but then who wants a sit on toy to put on the table? What's next, the Tyranid Spacehopperanthrope?


----------



## Zion

normtheunsavoury said:


> Yeah, but then who wants a sit on toy to put on the table? What's next, the Tyranid Spacehopperanthrope?


I wouldn't recommend sitting on it honestly. Further more, everything you bring to the table in 40k is a "toy".


----------



## Zion

Here's a blurry image of what is apparently not being called the Tessaract Vault:










Retail price is rumoured to be 125 Euros.

If there is an iPad sample I'll pull pages like I did for Iyanden as well.

EDIT: Looks like the Baneblade got a rebox too. Might just be one massive kit now.


----------



## revilo44

renren said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...m/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Bg-rElUYGX0
> 
> new vid


I can't see it. Is this it White Dwarf Daily | Games Workshop if not well new video everyone.


----------



## Zion

revilo44 said:


> I can't see it. Is this it White Dwarf Daily | Games Workshop if not well new video everyone.


It is new because that link was posted before it went live on the GW site, _and_ some people don't read the WD Daily. This lets everyone get a chance to see it. 

Besides, it just went up today, I'd classify that as "new" even if you have seen it already.


----------



## Jacobite

The new masters of the chapter are a little underwhelming I must say. I'd be interested to see whats in the middle of that Necron thing though.


----------



## Zion

Price/release list found on Dakka:



> WARHAMMER 40000: APOCALYPSE (ENGLISH) Other Book 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $90.00 $74.25
> IMPERIAL TARGETING TEMPLATES Hobby Product 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $30.00 $25.00
> KHORNE LORD OF SKULLS Plastic Box 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $190.00 $160.00
> IMPERIAL GUARD BANEBLADE Plastic Box 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $170.00 $140.00
> NECRON TESSERACT VAULT Plastic Box 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $190.00 $160.00
> WALL OF MARTYRS: VENGEANCE WEAPON BATTERY Plastic Box 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $60.00 $50.00
> WALL OF MARTYRS: FIRESTORM REDOUBT Plastic Box 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $80.00 $65.00
> WALL OF MARTYRS: AQUILA STRONGPOINT Plastic Box 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD $140.00 $115.00
> SPACE MARINE CPTN: MASTER OF THE MARCHES Finecast Clam 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Splash $30.00 $22.25
> SPACE MARINE CAPTAIN:MASTER OF THE RITES Finecast Clam 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Splash $30.00 $22.25
> SPACE MARINE CAPTAIN: MASTER OF RELICS Finecast Clam 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Splash $30.00 $22.25
> SPACE MARINE CAPTAIN: LORD EXECUTIONER Finecast Clam 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Splash $30.00 $22.25
> APOCALYPSE STRATEGIC ASSET CARDS (ENG) Hobby Product 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Limited $16.00 $15.00
> BOMBARDMENT DICE CUBE Hobby Product 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Limited $36.00 $30.00
> VORTEX GRENADE TEMPLATE Hobby Product 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 RTD Limited $16.00 $15.00
> WH40K: APOCALYPSE - COLLECTORS EDITION Other Book 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 D Limited $300.00 $250.00
> WH40K: APOCALYPSE - GAMER'S EDITION 29-Jun-13 13-Jul-13 D Limited $300.00 $250.00
> 
> 
> Prices are Canadian and then USA
> 
> Collectors edition is a replica of an inquisitors travel case or some such. (Limited to 1500 world wide) Has the Rulebook, and some other swag.
> 
> Gamers edition ( Limited to 3000 worldwide) includes rulesbook and a case big enough for 4 Baneblades or 14 regular tanks.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Jacobite said:


> The new masters of the chapter are a little underwhelming I must say. I'd be interested to see whats in the middle of that Necron thing though.


I didn't think they looked bad besides the Relic Master just sort of standing there like he forgot what he came into the room for. Though I was mostly pondering how much Finecast Droopage ™ we can look forward too.

Well that and so far my Eldar are unexcited. I want that rumored super-tank :laugh:


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Zion said:


> I wouldn't recommend sitting on it honestly. Further more, everything you bring to the table in 40k is a "toy".


You say that, but have you seen the new Ultramrines Super Heavy?


----------



## Zerodyme619

Well, the Aquila Strongpoint seems to be quite expensive.. I wonder how big that thing is going to be...


----------



## Archon Dan

Zion said:


> Price/release list found on Dakka:


My wallet just committed suicide. Said something about no longer having a purpose in life. 



normtheunsavoury said:


> You say that, but have you seen the new Ultramrines Super Heavy?


LMAO



Zerodyme619 said:


> Well, the Aquila Strongpoint seems to be quite expensive.. I wonder how big that thing is going to be...


Well. It is a "Super Heavy Fortification." I want a complete Manufactorum kit. It could have rules where it "produces" tanks each game turn.


----------



## Barnster

Those marines are the ultimate in meh. I think GW is beginning to feel the bite of its over obsession with marines. All the fighty characters can be made from the plastic kits. The best looking one there is the assault guy but a few spares from either the death company or sanguinary guard plus some logos and you can make pretty much the same model, with the added bonus it will be plastic.

Similar the relic dude just looks like an old MK6 guy with a plasma gun 

I cant stand the parchment guy. It looks too guardy. Marines are a rapid strike force the whole heres a tonne of paper doesn't sit well with me Maybe ok in an imperial fist force. If they did exactly the same sort of figure for guard or even chaos I'd love it

The non-chaplain looks lost and confused. "Guys is this your baton?, that guy gave me a baton, are we doing a relay?"


----------



## Zion




----------



## bitsandkits

some nice scenery models, would have liked to have seen more models for other armies however.


----------



## Jacobite

Imperial Guardsmen: "Commissar, the rebels have captured our Firestorm Redoubt and have cut us off from our supply lines!" 

Commissar: "Right well there is only one thing for it. We must recapture it. In the Emperor's name and in the finest traditions of the Imperial Guard.... CHARGE!"

And then 10, 000 Guardsmen and one dickhead Commissar turned into red mist.


----------



## Bubblematrix

Im torn, from one perspective they are quite nice kits, but from another I wonder whether we really need another "imperial gun building".

How about a chaos cultist hovel, tyranid spore chimneys, ork scrap tower/tellyporta, Eldar web gate, Tau.. tech-thingy, sisters of battle... no that is taking it too far.

But my point would be that game boards are looking a bit samey, maybe that is the intention. But this release of terrain feels a bit 'safe', though it could balance the two slightly more risky big kits.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Yeh I agree Bubble, it would be good to see some non-Imperial terrain. At least then it means we're fighting in their cities not ours !


----------



## 1ale4

Bubblematrix said:


> How about a chaos cultist hovel, tyranid spore chimneys, ork scrap tower/tellyporta, Eldar web gate, Tau.. tech-thingy, sisters of battle... no that is taking it too far.


Agreed, though I think Orks' stuff can just be easily made from the existing building and some bits/balsa wood. Also, some of your suggestions already exist on Forge World, it wouldn't be hard to convert them in plastic kits.


----------



## Bubblematrix

1ale4 said:


> Also, some of your suggestions already exist on Forge World.


If you mean the spore chimneys, they sadly stopped making them ages ago and buying them on ebay tends to be very expensive - but the masters must still exist.

I have often wondered why a single terrain kit is not lumped with each army release, GW could even include some rules in the dex.


----------



## ashikenshin

I'm going to leave this here. I really like the necrons though.


----------



## GrizBe

They're changing the names on a lot of the images and making some places take them down... soo.. found some rehosted ones that should stay for a while.
















































The alternate head on the Blood Knight looks much better then the one we've seen IMO... also... The Necrons have kidnapped Dr Manhattan? :shok:


----------



## Bubblematrix

That C'tan shard is awesome, really like the idea of putting that in the middle and tomb spiders (?) on the outside.

Would like to get a better idea of scale, but really think that the Necron players out there are a lucky bunch.


----------



## ashikenshin

thx for the rehost! I love the necron stuff.

I will have to start buying a wall of martyrs now, that terrain looks pretty cool.


----------



## GrizBe

Bubblematrix said:


> That C'tan shard is awesome, really like the idea of putting that in the middle and tomb spiders (?) on the outside.
> 
> Would like to get a better idea of scale, but really think that the Necron players out there are a lucky bunch.



There is this other pic of it: 










As you can see its on a large flying stem and looks to be longer then an Ark... so its pretty darn big.

Just a shame that at the $160 usd price its gonna be like £100... ouch my wallet.


----------



## 1ale4

Bubblematrix said:


> If you mean the spore chimneys, they sadly stopped making them ages ago


Yeah I was thinking about them, such a shame they didn't exist anymore...


----------



## Zion

GrizBe said:


> *snip*


Oh those are nice. Added to the first post.

And honestly I think both heads we've seen are fine, it was just the paint job on the first, combined with the picture quality that made it seem so bad.


----------



## GrizBe

Zion said:


> Oh those are nice. Added to the first post.
> 
> And honestly I think both heads we've seen are fine, it was just the paint job on the first, combined with the picture quality that made it seem so bad.


Possibly... GW seems to have a lot of bad paint and picture angles lately though. That said, still prefer the more helmet looking on in these alt pics. and I can't wait to see what the terrasect vault for the necrons does.


----------



## Zion

GrizBe said:


> Possibly... GW seems to have a lot of bad paint and picture angles lately though. That said, still prefer the more helmet looking on in these alt pics. and I can't wait to see what the terrasect vault for the necrons does.


I think some of the issues with the paint jobs is that they stopped pushing for an incredibly high standard in them and instead are using them as a way to show off their paint system. This makes the models look a considerable amount less impressive.

As for the photography, honestly it hasn't bugged me that much. I don't abhor the idea of backgrounds in the shots, but I will admit I prefer the minimalist approach by putting them on a white or black background.


----------



## GrizBe

In general I agree with the idea of dumbing down the painting. Having less detailed looking paint schemes makes your average painter feel that they can achieve them and that they can do a model justice. 

However, I still think that some of their choices are rather poor. Case in point being the pink face on the blood knight.


As for the pics... lost count of how many models I've seen recently that look soo much better irl. The backgrounds don't do a lot to help them, the simpler the better it shows off the model... it just some of the angles are questionable.


----------



## SonofVulkan

I'm liking the Master of Relics, he'll make a great sergeant for a Sternguard unit i'm planning. Not too keen on the Master of Shopping lists or Master of Opera. The Lord Executioner looks good, but the High Elf axe head with the purity seal flowing at a strange angle is odd.


----------



## Necrosis

I'm really liking the Wall of Martyrs pieces. I think they will go great with my sisters of battle.


----------



## Tawa

Zion said:


>


Behold! The Master of Disco! :laugh:


----------



## Zion

Small update from Dakka:



> Apocalypse templates are in transparent blue, big sphere, big flamer and connected 5 spheres barrage template.
> Dice are similar to current ones, but 125 box, red on black, with mechanicum skull on the 1.
> Warp Grenade template with a nice altered design.
> Set of 63 strategic option cards for Apocalypse.


----------



## Djinn24

I like the khorne tank, has alot of character and would be a blast to paint.


----------



## jams

I'm assuming the new templates are the same size as the old ones, just different colours?


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Necrosis said:


> I'm really liking the Wall of Martyrs pieces. I think they will go great with my sisters of battle.


Thinking the same but dubious of the prices. Can only assume they'll have rules and be useful so that might make it worth while.


----------



## Boc

jams said:


> I'm assuming the new templates are the same size as the old ones, just different colours?


I'd say that's a safe bet


----------



## Doelago

Anyone yet found any pics of the Limited, Collectors or Gamers Edition stuff?


----------



## GrizBe

Doelago said:


> Anyone yet found any pics of the Limited, Collectors or Gamers Edition stuff?


I'm surprised there aren't any yet when people are claiming to have their copies of WD already.


----------



## Tawa

The key word being "claim" of course :wink:


----------



## GrizBe

Tawa said:


> The key word being "claim" of course :wink:


Someones got something somewhere though, what with the WD image leaks of the models we have seen.


----------



## Zion

From /tg/ by the way of Dakka:

































































































EDIT: Re-uploaded so they don't disappear when the thread does on /tg/.


----------



## scscofield

Find the tau codex supplement more interesting than all the apoc stuff honestly.


----------



## revilo44

My god. The tau supplement is real. I hope there is going for each army

And saw these form faeit

Vengeance Weapons Battery $50
-The box comes with two Vengeance Weapons Batteries. Each can be armed with either a Punisher Gatling Cannon or a Battle Cannon
-The rules for both Apocalypse and Warhammer 40k are included in the box

Firestorm Redoubt $65
-Large fortification that has a pair of Quad-Linked Icarus Lascanons
-The rules for both Apocalypse and Warhammer 40k are included in the box

Aquila Strongpoint $115
-Has two options: Macro-Cannon or Vortex Missile
-Macro Cannon fire at a long range with an enormous blast radius. Can even target flyers.
-Vortex Missile comes with 7 Vortex Missles, which are bigger versions of a Vortex Grenade, but with infinite range
-The rules for both Apocalypse and Warhammer 40k are included in the box


----------



## GrizBe

Wow.... collectors/limited editions that actually look like they're worth buying... :shok:

Well at least on first glance.


----------



## scscofield

Holy shit, rules in the box! If they do that for any 'extra' things that are not in a codex that would be amaza'balls.


----------



## Tawa

Ooh, Tau supplement for Commander I'mOffski! That could be very interesting :victory:


----------



## Doelago

Apocalypse Collectors edition? Wow.

Please, tell me that the pre orders start Saturday. Other vise I am going to be pissed off.


----------



## Zion

Doelago said:


> Apocalypse Collectors edition? Wow.
> 
> Please, tell me that the pre orders start Saturday. Other vise I am going to be pissed off.


Yes, yes they do.


----------



## Doelago

Zion said:


> Yes, yes they do.


Thank god. Would have been sort of awkward to skip work to buy a book during the first week of employment. :laugh:


----------



## Khorne's Fist

That Lord of Skulls or whatever it's called actually looks to me like something a 3rd party company would come up with. Just doesn't seem Khornate enough somehow. I know it's got all the right iconography and shit, but it's angles seem all wrong somehow. It's got too many rounded edges for me. It's just not spikey enough. Can't explain it any better than that. 

I would be very interested in the Farsight supplement, but only if it gives a unique rule set for his forces, as opposed to just tweaking the codex a little bit. 

Can't ever see anybody I know getting around to a game of Apoc, even though there are super heavies in their collections, so not that interested.


----------



## Zion

Some more pictures:


----------



## tu_shan82

Doe anyone have a price list for all of this stuff in $AUD? Also does anyone have any idea how many copies of the gamer's edition are going to be made available?


----------



## Adramalech

scscofield said:


> holy shit, rules in the box!


ALL. of my yes.


----------



## Zion

tu_shan82 said:


> Doe anyone have a price list for all of this stuff in $AUD? Also does anyone have any idea how many copies of the gamer's edition are going to be made available?


No AUD pricelist as of yet.

3,000 copies of the Gamer's Edition world wide.


----------



## Archon Dan

Even with all the new toys, there is one thing I want more and there has been no mention of it yet. What about the Apocolypse Formations? I'm hoping to see some really fun new ones; perhaps involving Flyers.


----------



## Zion

Archon Dan said:


> Even with all the new toys, there is one thing I want more and there has been no mention of it yet. What about the Apocolypse Formations? I'm hoping to see some really fun new ones; perhaps involving Flyers.


I haven't seen any real information yet, just some satire posted about.


----------



## Jacobite

The Blood Angels in that Battle Rep seem to have shown up to a gun fight with a wet spagetti noodle. Two Chaos Warhounds and two Khorne Power Ranger Mobiles? Unless every single marine has a brace of vortex grenades they are up shit creek without hands let alone a paddle.


----------



## Tawa

Jacobite said:


> The Blood Angels in that Battle Rep seem to have shown up to a gun fight with a wet spagetti noodle. Two Chaos Warhounds and two Khorne Power Ranger Mobiles? Unless every single marine has a brace of vortex grenades they are up shit creek without hands let alone a paddle.


But just look how good the new toys are at winning games...... :wink:


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Jacobite said:


> The Blood Angels in that Battle Rep seem to have shown up to a gun fight with a wet spagetti noodle.


If you cannot defeat your enemy, feed them and hope they do not save room for you later.

Curious if those Libarians are actually a formation or just a random kitchen-sink unit.


----------



## d3m01iti0n

I just read elsewhere that BT has a formation in there. Crusader Hailstorm featuring 3 LRCS. Guess it was a White Dwarf blurb so not much info beyond that. At least were still considered a seperate army. Good sign!


----------



## MidnightSun

Librarian formation seems kind of crappy - for over 100pts per person (unless you want them level 1, for some raisin) with 2 wounds, a 3+ save and no invulnerables, I want some serious fucking damage output. Also a Power Field Generator to protect my investment.

Midnight


----------



## Arcticor

Well apocalypse stuff is now up on GW


----------



## Zion

Well from everything I've seen I have no interest at this time to buy anything for this release as there are no signs that Sisters got any support once again.

I wasn't asking for much here, just some rules and formations. There are no cards that seem specific to the Sisters from what I could see, and if there are any formations in the book they're strangely missing under the formations tab.


----------



## Necrosis

Zion said:


> Well from everything I've seen I have no interest at this time to buy anything for this release as there are no signs that Sisters got any support once again.
> 
> I wasn't asking for much here, just some rules and formations. There are no cards that seem specific to the Sisters from what I could see, and if there are any formations in the book they're strangely missing under the formations tab.


Then we shall create our own. Vengeance Weapon Battery with 2 Punisher Cannons armed with Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters. That is 52 strenght 5 shots that rend.


----------



## Doelago

Really torn between which edition to grab... On one hand the army case that comes with the Gamers Edition would be nice for a squadron of Baneblades, but then I do fuck all of gaming never mind Apocalypse. On the other hand the Collectors Edition looks sort of cool, but I wonder how cheap a material is that box? Just plain normal cardboard or is it similar to the 40k Rulebook CE Box material? I also dislike the amount of paper sheets and flimsy looking booklets that come inside of it. I‘d have preferred the same format the 40k CE book, thicker, heavier and different design instead of small tome along with shitload of paper. 

The special editions of the 6th edition rulebook were a lot better value for money in my opinion, so this time around picking both of them does not seem like nearly an as good idea..


----------



## Archon Dan

d3m01iti0n said:


> I just read elsewhere that BT has a formation in there. Crusader Hailstorm featuring 3 LRCS. Guess it was a White Dwarf blurb so not much info beyond that. At least were still considered a seperate army. Good sign!


Sounds like it will be similar to something the Blood Angels already have. But instead of 3 LRCs, they only need one, accompanied by 2-4 Baal Predators. You basically link fire the Assault Cannons, which creates a line of death 18" wide. Anything under it is severely punished as is anything that crosses the line before your next turn. Nice area denial for infantry. 



Necrosis said:


> Then we shall create our own. Vengeance Weapon Battery with 2 Punisher Cannons armed with Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters. That is 52 strenght 5 shots that rend.


Ouch!


----------



## Macas

Zion said:


> Well from everything I've seen I have no interest at this time to buy anything for this release as there are no signs that Sisters got any support once again.
> 
> I wasn't asking for much here, just some rules and formations. There are no cards that seem specific to the Sisters from what I could see, and if there are any formations in the book they're strangely missing under the formations tab.


Same here its all crap.


----------



## seermaster

Only thing I will get is the dice 125 for 18 is good value and hopefully means I will never need new dice again.


----------



## d3m01iti0n

BT got a bunch of formations under the Armaggedon tab. Sounds like there will be an Armaggedon supplement down the road. Hailstorm Crusader formation, Sons of Grimaldus, and Heroes of the Imperium. Good sign for us. Im definitely picking up more Crusaders now. If GW were -smart- they would have had a bundle deal on the Hailstorm and I would have picked it up immediately. Guess Ill be going elsewhere. Again.


----------



## Kobrakai

A pretty average release there. Nothing REALLY grabs my eye massively. Still nice to see Apocalypse back though.

I'll be picking up select models from the range for sure


----------



## Khorne's Fist

The only thing I like out of the whole lot is the SM executioner assault captain. Not bothered with the rest.


----------



## warsmith7752

Khorne's Fist said:


> The only thing I like out of the whole lot is the SM executioner assault captain. Not bothered with the rest.


I agree, best individual character model by GW for a long time. However i do still like all the other stuff too. Army bundles are under-rated in my opinion as people only think about the finicial benefits instead of the others.


----------



## Zion

Necrosis said:


> Then we shall create our own. Vengeance Weapon Battery with 2 Punisher Cannons armed with Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters. That is 52 strenght 5 shots that rend.


Creating our own has always been an option but it lacks the "officialness" that having it in the book provides.

Besides, this is just another mark in GW's looooooooooooooooooooong list of things they do that ignore the Sisters. I really don't feel like supporting a specialist game that ignores me as a customer (by ignoring my army) so blatantly.


----------



## Fallen

nothing too exciting, the Lord Executioner is on the list to buy.

the aquila strongpoint &vengence weapons are interesting, and I will prolly get them and put on some of my large terrrain pieces... eventually.


----------



## MidnightSun

Zion said:


> Well from everything I've seen I have no interest at this time to buy anything for this release as there are no signs that Sisters got any support once again.
> 
> I wasn't asking for much here, just some rules and formations. There are no cards that seem specific to the Sisters from what I could see, and if there are any formations in the book they're strangely missing under the formations tab.


Well the Tesseract Vault, Obelisk and Lord of Skulls are usable by any and all armies! I'm personally adding an Obelisk to my Dark Angels, using this model:

Dark Angels Company Master | Games Workshop

See those things in the background? They're the Imperial Tesseract Vaults.

Midnight


----------



## Doelago

MidnightSun said:


> Well the Tesseract Vault, Obelisk and Lord of Skulls are usable by any and all armies!


Just wait until you see my Grey Knights backed by three Khornemowers covered in SoB hides!


----------



## MidnightSun

Doelago said:


> Just wait until you see my Grey Knights backed by three Khornemowers covered in SoB hides!


Oh, well played, good sir!

Midnight


----------



## Zion

Doelago said:


> Just wait until you see my Grey Knights backed by three Khornemowers covered in SoB hides!


If you think you have the sculpting skills to make such a collection of human pelts have at it.


----------



## The Sturk

Anyone else concerned that Vortex Missiles could possibly be usable in vanilla 40k?


Beyond that, I'm tempted to grab a Tesseract Vault, but my gaming group almost never plays Apocalypse..

May get the book though, just in case.


----------



## MidnightSun

The Sturk said:


> Anyone else concerned that Vortex Missiles could possibly be usable in vanilla 40k?


Maybe Vortex Grenades might just be in the Imperial Guard unique weapons slot, but Missiles? GW want to sell physical, plastic stuff, not have people throwing Vortex Missiles around.

Midnight


----------



## Zion

The Sturk said:


> Anyone else concerned that Vortex Missiles could possibly be usable in vanilla 40k?


I'm assuming they'll have special rules and cost a boatload of points, so not really.

Well iPad sample stuff is out so let's see what we got.

From the Strategic Asset Cards:
Crusade Banner- Space Marines- *A banner from the time of the Great Crusade instils incredible devotion*. - Use this Strategic Asset after deployment is complete and nominate one friendly Space Marine Standard Bearer. All friendly Space Marine units within 24" of the Standard Bearer have the *Feel No Pain* special rule.

From the sample for the Apoc Book:
The sample only covers Chapter 1: "What is Apocalypse?".

Though of note I did see something interesting:
Defines 40k as 1 player on each side, Apocalypse as 4 or more players split into two sides and "Mega-Apocalypse" as 8 or more players split into two sides.

Also from the 40k Apocalypse blog:


> *Lord of Skulls*
> Triple Khorne's sacred number is indeed its point cost. All directly battle revelant stats seem rather mediocre with 3's and 4's (except S which is 10 ofc). no 14's in its armour rating.
> But it has 9 Hullpoints, and the rule "Fuelled by Rage", which gives it +1A for every lost HP (keeping that even if the HP is repaired later) up to A: 10.
> *"Tracked Behemoth": *It may not Stomp, but use the "Thunderblitz" table for Ramming and Tank Shock for Superheavy Vehicles.
> 3 Weapon points, the axe which can't be exchanged (but has S: D !), one template weapon in the belly, one more conventional shooting arm-weapon.
> The belly-weapons names:
> - Gorestorm Cannon (Hellstorm template, MEQ killy high-S stat, standard loadout)
> - Deamongore Cannon (Gorestorm with higher strength, gets hot and Instant Death)
> - Ichor Cannon which is a large blast TEQ-killy weapon with slightly lower strength then the other options.
> Armweapons:
> - Hades Gatling cannon (standard loadout, 12 shots pinning version of what Forgefiends have)
> - SKULLHURLER (caption for actually hurling skulls, which is cheesesome) which is an apocalyptic Blast MEQ killy high-S weapon with good range, and special rule "Gnaw" forcing successful saves to reroll.


From Darog's Company (claim is from iPad Sample, perhaps they got ahold of a different one than I did):



> Scoring is done based on the number of strategic objectives controlled each break and at the end of the battle.
> Formation:
> Ripctide Wing: 3+ Riptides gains Coordinated Attacks and Networked Reactors
> Transcendent C'Tan (no rules listed)
> WraithKnight Dreamwalker Squad: 3-5 Wraithknights. Gains Dreamwalk (fluff mentions faster response times)
> Baneblade: 525 pts (with no sponsons), can take 2 sets of sponsons for 50pts a pair (lost option for flamer sponsons and option for extra armor), commisar tank upgrade for 45pts, and command tank upgrade for 200pts. HK/Stubber/SB all as guard codex


----------



## 1ale4

I'm quite sure that when Apocalypse went out the first time GW sold formations boxes at a smaller price so I was kinda disappointed when I saw the Apocalypse Formations prices on GW site: what's the point of picking them if the overall price it's just the total of every piece? I mean, if I take 1st Company Veterans I expect a saled price!


----------



## GrizBe

1ale4 said:


> I'm quite sure that when Apocalypse went out the first time GW sold formations boxes at a smaller price so I was kinda disappointed when I saw the Apocalypse Formations prices on GW site: what's the point of picking them if the overall price it's just the total of every piece? I mean, if I take 1st Company Veterans I expect a saled price!


Appart from conveinience there is no point to getting these one click bundle deals.... 

Infact.. *Some of these deals could end up costing you money.*

Take for instance the 'Imperial Sheild Company' for the Imperial Guard. It costs £252.... for what you get in it, if you were to instead buy 3 battleforce boxes, then get the command squad and advisors separately, it only costs you £251, plus you get 3 sentinals extra... Those 3 sentinals would cost you £54 to buy extra.

The Necron Infinite Phalanx... It costs the same as 10 boxes of warriors, but, you don't get the scarabs with them you would normally.

The War Council of Mandragora is also cheaper if you bought it separately piece by piece...

The then Windrider Host for Eldar is also £210... separately, it'd cost you £206.


In other words, i'd suggest people shop smart and buy things separately, rather then using these one click deals.


----------



## Archon Dan

Zion said:


> I'm assuming they'll have special rules and cost a boatload of points, so not really.
> 
> Well iPad sample stuff is out so let's see what we got.
> 
> From the Strategic Asset Cards:
> Crusade Banner- Space Marines- *A banner from the time of the Great Crusade instils incredible devotion*. - Use this Strategic Asset after deployment is complete and nominate one friendly Space Marine Standard Bearer. All friendly Space Marine units within 24" of the Standard Bearer have the *Feel No Pain* special rule.
> 
> From the sample for the Apoc Book:
> The sample only covers Chapter 1: "What is Apocalypse?".
> 
> Though of note I did see something interesting:
> Defines 40k as 1 player on each side, Apocalypse as 4 or more players split into two sides and "Mega-Apocalypse" as 8 or more players split into two sides.
> 
> Also from the 40k Apocalypse blog:
> 
> 
> From Darog's Company (claim is from iPad Sample, perhaps they got ahold of a different one than I did):


Thanks for finding all the cool stuff. That crusade banner is pretty cool, though a lot of stuff denies FNP in Apocolypse. It's interesting that it labels Apocolypse by number of players and not points. I played a 3-on-3 game last week that was 750 points per player. Definitely not Apocolypse.


----------



## Zion

GrizBe said:


> Appart from conveinience there is no point to getting these one click bundle deals....
> 
> Infact.. *Some of these deals could end up costing you money.*
> 
> Take for instance the 'Imperial Sheild Company' for the Imperial Guard. It costs £252.... for what you get in it, if you were to instead buy 3 battleforce boxes, then get the command squad and advisors separately, it only costs you £251, plus you get 3 sentinals extra... Those 3 sentinals would cost you £54 to buy extra.
> 
> The Necron Infinite Phalanx... It costs the same as 10 boxes of warriors, but, you don't get the scarabs with them you would normally.
> 
> The War Council of Mandragora is also cheaper if you bought it separately piece by piece...
> 
> The then Windrider Host for Eldar is also £210... separately, it'd cost you £206.
> 
> 
> In other words, i'd suggest people shop smart and buy things separately, rather then using these one click deals.


I think the Warrior sprues have scarabs on them though.


----------



## GrizBe

Zion said:


> I think the Warrior sprues have scarabs on them though.


Ah yeah, they're on the weapon sprue.. silly me. Stupid not to make mention of them though assuming that the package will just be 10 boxes of warriors.


----------



## bitsandkits

You can do the eldar wind rider for £194 from GWs own website.


----------



## MadCowCrazy

Has someone already posted all the Apocalypse Formations?

Seems GW has thrown together them all as quick buy bundles on their website...

Apocalypse Formations

As predicted, everyone buy Sisters get a formation...

Seems a single vehicle is enough for a formation?


----------



## Zion

MadCowCrazy said:


> Has someone already posted all the Apocalypse Formations?
> 
> Seems GW has thrown together them all as quick buy bundles on their website...
> 
> Apocalypse Formations
> 
> As predicted, everyone buy Sisters get a formation...
> 
> Seems a single vehicle is enough for a formation?


I'm hoping that it turns out that they only made one-clicks of the new or adjusted formations because they had a couple of formations for Sisters formations before and it really seems silly that they wouldn't just slap them in there as is since they still worked.

I'm thinking some of these "formations" are datasheets for the superheavies and they just wanted to include them there.


----------



## Archon Dan

Some of the formations look good just as they are. But I want to see the special rules for fielding them. Surely that Infinite Phalanx has some additional rules, such as better reanimation or the units going back into Reserve when destroyed to come on again. Maybe the formations have no extra rules but then what is the advantage of fielding an Assault Company over a Battle Company?


----------



## Winterous

Archon Dan said:


> Some of the formations look good just as they are. But I want to see the special rules for fielding them. Surely that Infinite Phalanx has some additional rules, such as better reanimation or the units going back into Reserve when destroyed to come on again. Maybe the formations have no extra rules but then what is the advantage of fielding an Assault Company over a Battle Company?


In the current book there's a Rough Rider formation, I think it was, that has absolutely no special rules.
The advantage is that they're a formation, so they arrive from Reserves together, and I think a few other little things like that.


----------



## Fallen

Archon Dan said:


> what is the advantage of fielding an Assault Company over a Battle Company?


getting a shit ton of assault marines...


----------



## bitsandkits

Looks like GW are not going balls out with this release of Apocalypse, which is a shame i really liked the discounted multi tank kits and such last time around, would have liked to have seem some updated units come along for this release too,guess they are holding them in reserve for codex releases.


----------



## MidnightSun

bitsandkits said:


> Looks like GW are not going balls out with this release of Apocalypse, which is a shame i really liked the discounted multi tank kits and such last time around, would have liked to have seem some updated units come along for this release too,guess they are holding them in reserve for codex releases.


Nah, Wells is still crying himself to sleep over the money he lost in the first Apocalypse release. Looks like they won't make the same mistake twice.

Midnight


----------



## tu_shan82

Hi all does anyone know whether these formations are it or whether there are others in the book as well? The reason I ask is that I find it odd that there is no mention of the SM Linebreaker Squadron, among others that I would have assumed would have been in the book. I will be kind of crushed inside if they've gotten rid of that formation, as it was one of my favorites because it gave the SM chapters the ability to throw pie plates around without having to take an allied Banblade or that totally unfluffy piece of crap Fellblade datasheeet from those wankers at BoLS. Also does anyone know if the likes of the Thunderhawk Gunship or Brass Scorpion made it into the book or whether they will be included in a future FW Apocalypse publication, or IA2 even, in the case of the Thunderhawk?


----------



## Barnster

I'm guessing there will be others for things like FW kits, but I suspect if GW can sell it and its in the book then it would likely be up and available to buy in the "I'm too lazy to click 3 times" formations tab.

I doubt all FW kits will see the book though, may just get one or two for each race then FW will likely release their 4th(?) version of their apoc books 

There are some strange changes to a couple of the old ones as well as a few of the common ones be missing. Get for ready of Apoc "lock and" reloaded 2.0 which may have those in


----------



## Zion

tu_shan82 said:


> Hi all does anyone know whether these formations are it or whether there are others in the book as well? The reason I ask is that I find it odd that there is no mention of the SM Linebreaker Squadron, among others that I would have assumed would have been in the book. I will be kind of crushed inside if they've gotten rid of that formation, as it was one of my favorites because it gave the SM chapters the ability to throw pie plates around without having to take an allied Banblade or that totally unfluffy piece of crap Fellblade datasheeet from those wankers at BoLS. Also does anyone know if the likes of the Thunderhawk Gunship or Brass Scorpion made it into the book or whether they will be included in a future FW Apocalypse publication, or IA2 even, in the case of the Thunderhawk?


No word as of yet either officially or via rumors. I'm curious about some of the same things.


----------



## Zion

From the WD Daily:


----------



## Bubblematrix

Not putting the thunderhawk in would be a very very odd move, I really like the brass scorpion but could see that playing second fiddle to the new chaos plastic kit and being shoved in a supplement


----------



## Tawa

Apparently Apocalypse is getting it's own supplements based on specific campaigns. Any ideas other than Armageddon? :so_happy:


----------



## Archon Dan

I would guess conflicts involving Black Crusade/Cadia/Eye of Terror, Hive Fleet Leviathan, The Maelstrom and maybe the Assault on Baal. But those are purely guesses and GW could just create new battles/campaigns much like the IA books.


----------



## Zion

Tawa said:


> Apparently Apocalypse is getting it's own supplements based on specific campaigns. Any ideas other than Armageddon? :so_happy:


The Collector's Edition has the stuff for another campaign that will be released later in the year, but not beyond that.


----------



## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH

Seeing as superheavies now no longer use structure points, is there any word on how their damage table looks like? I'm guessing is looks somewhat like the old one, at least I can't imagine them having an explode result.


----------



## Zion

AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH said:


> Seeing as superheavies now no longer use structure points, is there any word on how their damage table looks like? I'm guessing is looks somewhat like the old one, at least I can't imagine them having an explode result.


No sign yet. With us being 2 weeks out we only have what GW trickle-feeds to us.


----------



## Vaz

Well, 9 Hull Points on a SH. Perhaps Super Heavy means that "Destroyed" results in 3 (or D3?) Hull Points lost instead. S(D) weapons possibly ignore this.


----------



## Bubblematrix

I am really hoping that they haven't sprinkled weaksauce on the superheavies, attrition I think is important as it lets you slowly beat up the big tanks with weight of normal fire (or it is just a game of who has the most str D), but if it diminishes the superheavies or the d-weapons I think it will not be great.

Interested to see which way the game jumps, old apoc seriously needed to make infantry and basic units valuable, but I hope it is not at the total expense of the big guns.


----------



## Tawa

Zion said:


> The Collector's Edition has the stuff for another campaign that will be released later in the year, but not beyond that.


"Pandorax"

Just seen it now


----------



## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH

Bubblematrix said:


> I am really hoping that they haven't sprinkled weaksauce on the superheavies, attrition I think is important as it lets you slowly beat up the big tanks with weight of normal fire (or it is just a game of who has the most str D), but if it diminishes the superheavies or the d-weapons I think it will not be great.
> 
> Interested to see which way the game jumps, old apoc seriously needed to make infantry and basic units valuable, but I hope it is not at the total expense of the big guns.


Just my thoughts. Weakening all the big stuff too much seems counterproductive to what apocalypse is all about, but I think GW knows this. Or I hope they do.


----------



## Zion

AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH said:


> Just my thoughts. Weakening all the big stuff too much seems counterproductive to what apocalypse is all about, but I think GW knows this. Or I hope they do.


FW had put out that 1 Structure Point was equal to 3 Hull Points at the start of 6th. Looks like GW just took this to the logical conclusion. I'm sure D weapons will still do horrible and monstrous things despite all that.

Anyways now for some rumours:

From BoLS:


> *Scoring*
> Scoring is done based on the number of strategic objectives controlled each break and at the end of the battle. There are six new scenarios to play and several dozen Strategic Assets, which allow you to outmaneuver your foes, place minefields in front of them or bombard them from orbit. Unnatural disasters erupt across the warzone or magma storms fall from the sky while seismic explosions rip apart the battlefield. Your Warlords can even perform heroic acts during the game, which could potentially turn the tide of battle. Just make sure they don't get killed while doing it there's nothing quite so tragic as having your commander blown to bits in their finest hour.
> 
> *Formations*
> _Necton Tesseract Vault and the Obelisk:_ Both of the Vaults have the Seismic Assault Ascendant Power (you've got to give them two out of a list of six, and all of them are truly nasty), which unleashes a massive 6D6 S8 AP3 shots per turn (new apoc barage). The Obelisk: its Gravity Pulse ability automatically hits enemy flyers in both shooting phases.
> 
> _Space Marine Battle Company:_ Orbital Strike Strategic Asset and the Comrades-in-Arms rule, which enables all squads in the Battle Company to fire overwatch for nearby allies when they are assaulted.
> 
> _Tau Riptide Wing:_ 3+ Riptides gains Coordinated Attacks and Networked Reactors
> 
> _Eldar WraithKnight Dreamwalker Squad:_ 3-5 Wraithknights. Gains Dreamwalk (fluff mentions faster response times)
> 
> _IG Baneblade:_ 525 pts (with no sponsons), can take 2 sets of sponsons for 50pts a pair (lost option for flamer sponsons and option for extra armor), commisar tank upgrade for 45pts, and command tank upgrade for 200pts. HK/Stubber/SB all as guard codex
> 
> _Space Marine Librarius:_ five+ Librarians, will unleash a Force Vortex. Woe betide anyone who is caught in that!
> 
> _Space Marine Predator Assassin Squadron:_ Three new Predator Annihilators should be a match for most armoured targets (their killshot rule makes their firepower even more dangerous than usual. making them fire as a D-weapon if all their lascannons hit). At the start of the game I have to nominate a chosen target and they do a lot better against that (all weapons are twin-linked), but as long as I choose the right formation for the right targets, they will be deadly.
> 
> _CSM Legionnaire Warband:_ units have Hatred and be Fearless, so long as they're within 12" of a Space Marine. Warlord may call Finest Hour. So Death Guard with Typhus get Feel No Pain and Fearless.
> 
> _CSM Heldrake Fear Squadron: _ pre-game Vector Strike, as well as its 'always-on ' Daemonforge.
> 
> *Strategic Assets*
> _Crusade Banner:_ Pick a Marine standard bearer, all marine units with models within 24" gain FNP
> 
> _Camouflage:_ any army. Pick a friendly HQ unit. Friendly units within 24" of that model have shrouded the first turn of the game
> 
> _Blind Barrage:_ The same
> 
> _Trophy Kill:_ Strategic Asset rewards us with three extra victory points if we can kill the enemy Warmaster.
> 
> _Entropic Plague_: Strategic Asset, which, on the turn I use it, strips every model within 3D6" of my Warlord of its armour save.​This seems to be a mix of some old classic rules and formations with the addition of a bunch of new ones. I think the coolest part of the new Apocalypse will be the Studio's take on all the latest toys and codices like the Riptide, Wraithknight, and the Heldrake.


From what I heard Entropic Plague only lasts a short period (like the phase or turn you used it) because it also strips the armour save off the models that belong to the player using it.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

I knew I recognised this guy from somewhere...


----------



## Tawa

Khorne's Fist said:


> I knew I recognised this guy from somewhere...


BAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!! :rofl:


----------



## Archon Dan

Zion said:


> FW had put out that 1 Structure Point was equal to 3 Hull Points at the start of 6th. Looks like GW just took this to the logical conclusion. I'm sure D weapons will still do horrible and monstrous things despite all that.
> 
> Anyways now for some rumours:
> 
> From BoLS:
> 
> 
> From what I heard Entropic Plague only lasts a short period (like the phase or turn you used it) because it also strips the armour save off the models that belong to the player using it.


Those sneak peaks seem pretty cool. Thanks for sharing. 



Khorne's Fist said:


> I knew I recognised this guy from somewhere...


Lmao. Awesome.


----------



## Zion

Khorne's Fist said:


> I knew I recognised this guy from somewhere...


Maybe it's the fact that I've seen this joke a LOT on Dakka (I honestly stopped counting at 5, and that's not counting the times it's quoted)...but I don't find it that funny. Then again I don't hate GW model design, I think it works for the setting and anyone who thinks they can do better should give it a go. 



Archon Dan said:


> Those sneak peaks seem pretty cool. Thanks for sharing.


It's what I do. :so_happy:


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Zion said:


> Maybe it's the fact that I've seen this joke a LOT on Dakka (I honestly stopped counting at 5, and that's not counting the times it's quoted)...but I don't find it that funny. Then again I don't hate GW model design, I think it works for the setting and anyone who thinks they can do better should give it a go.


Maybe its the fact that its the first time I've seen that particular picture and that its quite accurate that I find it so very, very funny. Also, I can't drive, never learned, the most I can mange is to make the car lurch forward like its powered by kangaroos. Despite not knowing how to make a car work I fully understand that Lewis Hamilton is a far better driver than my wife, I don't need to be able to do something myself to be able to criticise the work of others. The new Thomas the Khorne Engine model is bloody stupid and a lot of people seem to agree, I don't need to be able to make one myself to know its crap, I have eyes, I can see that its crap.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Saw it in the "flesh" (warp forged armour? plastic?) today.

I have to admit it is quite an imposing model. 

It's also the only thing my son wants for his Birthday !


----------



## Bindi Baji

Bubblematrix said:


> Not putting the thunderhawk in would be a very very odd move


They are in the forgeworld apocalypse update


----------



## Bubblematrix

Bindi Baji said:


> They are in the forgeworld apocalypse update


*facepalm*

so the most iconic large model in the GW (admittedly forgeworld) range, the one which is lusted after by countless marine players, the only marine model I really would love to own, the most ludicrous metal model GW ever made and the most anticipated and wishlisted plastic model out there...

...ended up in the supplement to the main book.

*facepalm*


----------



## Zion

Bubblematrix said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> so the most iconic large model in the GW (admittedly forgeworld) range, the one which is lusted after by countless marine players, the only marine model I really would love to own, the most ludicrous metal model GW ever made and the most anticipated and wishlisted plastic model out there...
> 
> ...ended up in the supplement to the main book.
> 
> *facepalm*


You do realize that this is not a new thing right? It's a big honking, heavy, poor-fitting resin kit. That's all FW's department. GW will regulate the rules for their stuff, FW theirs just as they did with the previous Apoc release. Nothing new here.


----------



## Bubblematrix

Zion said:


> You do realize that this is not a new thing right?


Nope, I have just had my head in a bucket of sand for a few years now and was in no way being sarcastic and suggesting that maybe it would have been a generally good thing to put the thunderhawk in the main book.


----------



## Zion

Bubblematrix said:


> Nope, I have just had my head in a bucket of sand for a few years now and was in no way being sarcastic and suggesting that maybe it would have been a generally good thing to put the thunderhawk in the main book.


Well then, since you have your head in a bucket of sand (do you breath through a snorkel?), GW and FW generally handle the rules for the respective models and not the other way around. The only exception to this has been a couple of vehicles in the Imperial Guard army that FW makes, but are in the main codex for IG so FW just uses the same rules as GW on instead.

And while blurring the lines further between the stuff produced by GW and their resin-only brand FW would be nice I don't expect it to happen anytime soon. GW has shown that they treat FW as almost a separate company when it comes to products and the like and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. To expect a sudden shift (with no warning of any kind no less) now, just for the Apoc release is kind of silly in my opinion, and definitely some wishful thinking regardless.

And that, for the record is not sarcasm, but just the way it is. GW doesn't turn on a dime, and expecting it to will only lead to disappointment.

EDIT: And for the record, I personally think the Titans are more iconic than the Storm Raven. The titans have personality, the Storm Raven just comes off as a brick that should crash when it hits the atmosphere, not fly.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Zion said:


> Then again I don't hate GW model design,


I don't hate it either. If I did I wouldn't have spent 20 years and thousands of € on the hobby. But sometimes they get it so very fucking wrong. This is one of those times.



normtheunsavoury said:


> The new Thomas the Khorne Engine model is bloody stupid and a lot of people seem to agree, I don't need to be able to make one myself to know its crap, I have eyes, I can see that its crap.


This.


----------



## Zion

Khorne's Fist said:


> I don't hate it either. If I did I wouldn't have spent 20 years and thousands of € on the hobby. But sometimes they get it so very fucking wrong. This is one of those times.
> 
> 
> This.


I disagree with that sentiment actually. Seeing as GW creates what we call "40k" I think they hit the nail on the head everytime, we just need to accept what they present. The Lord of Skulls is a throwback to Epic, and is a heavilly detailed model and frankly I think it has all the thinks a Khorne model needs: skulls, blood and a murderous melee ability.

And thhat's more than enough for me.


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Zion said:


> I disagree with that sentiment actually. Seeing as GW creates what we call "40k" I think they hit the nail on the head everytime, we just need to accept what they present. The Lord of Skulls is a throwback to Epic, and is a heavilly detailed model and frankly I think it has all the thinks a Khorne model needs: skulls, blood and a murderous melee ability.
> 
> And thhat's more than enough for me.


Really:shok:

Whether GW make it or not, if its shit its shit. I may have to accept what GW makes, to a degree, I can always just bugger off and buy another game system or proxy the model with something else, I certainly don't have to like everything that GW makes or think they got it right. 

The Lord of Skulls may well be a throwback to epic, Squats are a throwback to Rogue Trader, doesn't mean I want them back. Of all the models to bring back from the past they pick the most fuck ugly pile of crap they could find. And somehow I'm supposed to celebrate the great job GW did on a model I don't like? 

GW are not perfect, they fuck up just like everyone else and this is a fuck up of _epic_ proportions.


----------



## Zion

normtheunsavoury said:


> Really:shok:
> 
> Whether GW make it or not, if its shit its shit. I may have to accept what GW makes, to a degree, I can always just bugger off and buy another game system or proxy the model with something else, I certainly don't have to like everything that GW makes or think they got it right.
> 
> The Lord of Skulls may well be a throwback to epic, Squats are a throwback to Rogue Trader, doesn't mean I want them back. Of all the models to bring back from the past they pick the most fuck ugly pile of crap they could find. And somehow I'm supposed to celebrate the great job GW did on a model I don't like?
> 
> GW are not perfect, they fuck up just like everyone else and this is a fuck up of _epic_ proportions.


Calling it shit doesn't make it shit though. Just because it doesn't tickle your spincter doesn't make it a bad model, just one that doesn't appeal to you. I think GW is doing a lot better job making these models than people give them credit for.

Then again this is the internet, if GW can be blamed for something they get blamed for it. 

I'm willing to bet that once people see these on the table the hate will die down just like it does everytime the internet gets its hackles up over model design.

EDIT: For clarity sake I do think there CAN be bad models, but those are models that have actual defects. Legitimate issues not just "it's not my thing".


----------



## scscofield

It looks like Voltron, the shitty vehicle one, dressed up in it's BSDM outfit and fucked a bulldozer.


----------



## Zion

scscofield said:


> It looks like Voltron, the shitty vehicle one, dressed up in it's BSDM outfit and fucked a bulldozer.


You sir, have some very specific and weird kinks.

Also Voltron was made of Lions. I don't see any lions there.


----------



## scscofield

scscofield said:


> It looks like Voltron, the shitty vehicle one, dressed up in it's BSDM outfit and fucked a bulldozer.



Voltron Vehicle Force - Voltron Wiki


----------



## Zion

scscofield said:


> Voltron Vehicle Force - Voltron Wiki


Huh. Never knew about that. I learned something new.

That said, I still don't agree with the negativity. I think it looks fine and looks better in person.


Back on topic of rumors this came up on Faeit:



> [REDACTED]configuration has so many guns on it that the _entire crew_ cannot fire them at once.


Yeah, I call this bullshit. Release Apoc WITHOUT a model like THAT? No fucking way.


----------



## Barnster

I'll be honest I don't like the Lord of Battle or the Necron one.

Though I applaud that they gave chaos a big nasty, I think they should have gone for something more undivided or released a second god kit at the same time, like a silver tower or plague tower. The lord of battle will appeal to a small slice of the market, CSM players who love khorne. It will unlikely fit in any other force, and I cant see any conversion opportunities yet. I'm not a fan of every GW product need to have skulls attached and that thing just takes it to the extreme

A cool bomber (like the harbringer but less massive) would have nicer IMO


----------



## Tawa

Whilst I appreciate the backwards nod to Epic, I think something generic as opposed to one god would have been more appropriate.

Unless all four powers are getting something. Who knows?


----------



## tarvitz

*Lord of Skulz*

I hope this is just a start towards adding other power biggies. A Subjegator for example. Plague tower too? The Lord of Skulz is impressive as a model though I am not a khorne player. As a center piece though it would be awesome for that faction.


----------



## Bubblematrix

I was surprised that the khorne kit did not have a tower of skulls option as a build, odd to make such a big kit with so little variation options.

As for the necron one, it needed to be collapsible, who is ever going to build the closed one, seriously.


----------



## Zion

Bubblematrix said:


> I was surprised that the khorne kit did not have a tower of skulls option as a build, odd to make such a big kit with so little variation options.
> 
> As for the necron one, it needed to be collapsible, who is ever going to build the closed one, seriously.


The closed Necron one auto-hits flyers in both shooting phases each turn. I can think of some people who would build it.


----------



## Da Joka

I actually like the Lord of Skulls... I agree that is kind of odd that they would release a big model like that for only one of the Gods... but hey whatever.

The only new kit they has been released that I don't like so far is the Chaos Space Marine Mutilators... they just look bad imo (also they should have been a plastic kit that also made Obliterators). Other than that even if I don't like how something looks I don't think they are bad models, just not my thing, but I don't feel the need to throw a huge hissy fit over it.


----------



## revilo44

Yes yet another supplement roumor this time is about one for apoc 
Link below.
Faeit 212: Warhammer 40k News and Rumors: Apocalypse Supplements: Warzones: New Formations, Scenarios, and Strategic Assets


----------



## Zion

I think it's time for some more rumors:

From Warseer:


> *APOCALYPSE Table of Contents and Formations*
> 
> *Apocalypse Book Contents*
> Guesses are in bold, some pages are confirmed to exist but not a definite page number, those are listed with either best guess page number with a ? or just as page ??:
> 
> 
> _FIGHTING AN APOCALYPSE BATTLE _
> 5 What is Apocalypse
> 23 Strategic Resources
> Inside 23-24? Eldar vs Chaos double gatefold
> 30 Strategic Assets
> 31 Asset Cards
> 32 Asset Cards
> 33 Asset Cards
> 34 Asset Cards
> 35 Asset Cards
> 36 Asset Cards
> 37-69 New Rules and Weapon Types
> 51-55 Organizing the Apocalypse
> 
> 
> _APOCALYPSE FORMATIONS (112 total)_
> 79 Baneblade
> 80 Banehammer
> 81 Banesword
> 82 Catachan Ambush Patrol
> 83 Doomhammer
> 84 Emperor's Fist Tank Company
> 85 Emperor's Talons Recon Company
> 86 Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company
> 87 Hellhammer
> 88 Imperial Shield Infantry Company
> 89 Imperial Sword Heavy Weapon Company
> 90 Lord Castellan's Supreme Command
> 91 Sanctioned Psyker Battle Elite
> 92 Shadowsword
> 93 Steel Fury Baneblade Company
> 94 Stormlord
> 95 Stormsword
> 96 Battle Company/ Reserve Company (Tactical/Assault/Devastator)
> *97 Fellblade? *
> 98 First Company Veterans
> 99 Librarius
> 100 Masters of the Chapter
> 101 Prediator Assassin Squadron
> 102 Scout Company
> 103 Imperial Fists Titanhammer Squad *104 Thunderhawk?*
> 105 The Black Rage
> 106 Lucifer Armoured Task Force
> 107 Wings of Sanguinius
> 108 Space Wolf Great Company
> 109 Space Wolf Librarius
> 110 Brethren of the Great Wolf
> 111 Wolfpack Flanking Force
> 112 Deathwing Redemption Force
> 113 Ravenwing Huntmasters
> 114 Brothers of the Flame
> 115 Dreadknight Brethren
> 116 Extermination Force *
> 117 Reaver Titan? Marauder Bomber? *
> 118? Warhound Titan
> 119 Cult of Destruction
> 120 Heldrake Fear Squadron
> 121 Lord of Skulls
> 122 Legionaire Warband
> 123 Lords of the Black Crusade
> 124 The Lost and Dammed
> 125 Thousand Sons War Coven
> 126 Tide of Spawn
> 127 Cohort of Blood
> 128 The Flaming Host of Tzeentch
> 129 The Great Promenade of Exquisite Excess
> 130 The Tallymen of Nurgle
> 131 Tetragon of Darkness *132?*
> 133 Battlewagon Steamrolla Squad
> 134 Burna-Bommer Skwadron
> 135 Da Bully Boyz
> 136 Dread Mob
> *137 Big Mek Stompa?*
> 138 Stompa *
> 139 Gargantuan Squiggoth?*
> 140 Green Tide *
> 141 Battlefortress? * *
> 142 Cobra?*
> 143 Cloudstrike Squadron
> 144 Farseer Council
> 145 The Phoenix Court of Khiane *
> 146 Phantom Titan*
> 147? Revenant Titan *
> 148 Scorpion* *
> 149 Vampire?*
> 150 Sunstorm Squadron
> 151 Wraithknight Dreamwalker Squad
> 152 Windrider Host
> 153 Carnival of Pain
> 154 Dark Olympiad
> 155 Kabalite Web Strike
> 156 Ravager Titan Hunters
> 157 Sickle Squadron *158 Void Dragon Phoenix? *FW website blub says they frequently work with dark eldar.  *159 Barbed Heirodule?*
> 160 Carnifex Crusher Brood
> 161 Endless Swarm *
> 162 Harridan?*
> *163 Heirophant Bio Titan?*
> 164 Living Fortress
> 165 Subterranean Swarm
> 166 Vanguard Infestation
> *167 Scythed Heirodule?* *
> 168 Spore Chimney? *
> 169 Acquisition Phalanx
> 170 Baleful Necropolis
> 171 Infinite Phalanx
> 172? Obelisk
> *173 Pylon?*
> 174? Tesseract Vault
> 175 The War Council of Mandragora
> 176? Trancendent C'tan
> 177 Air Superiority Wing
> 178 Counterstrike Cadre
> 179 Kroot Hunting Pack
> 180 Optimised Stealth Group
> 181 Rapid Insertion Force
> 182 Riptide Wing
> 183 Skysweep Missile Defence *
> 184 Tigershark?*
> *185 Tigershark AX-1-0* _Mentioned in the Air Superiority Wing_
> ?? Grand Redoubt (Apoc level Firestorm Redoubt?)
> ?? Macro-cannon Aquilla Strongpoint
> ?? Vortex Missile Aquilla Strongpoint
> 4 are missing still, with two possibly being the  *?? Marauder Bomber* (Pages 117 and 118 are tricky, as the Warhound is confirmed, the Reaver has a 2 page spread of the model, and Marauder was in the first Apoc book, but there are only 2 pages of space.) *?? Marauder Destroyer*
> 
> 
> _MINIATURES SHOWCASE_
> 196 Lords of the Black Crusade showcase
> 197 Masters of the Chapter showcase
> ?? Obelisk showcase
> ?? Necron army spread
> ?? Reaver Titan spread
> ?? Sacred Blade cutaway (spread?)
> 
> 
> _WAR ZONE: ARMAGEDDON_
> 230 Ghazkulls First Invasion
> 231 Maps
> [Armageddon Showcase]
> [Armageddon Formations]
> 262 Heroes of Armageddon
> 263 Armageddon Stompa Hunters
> 264 Fortress of Arrogance
> 265 Imperial Vengeance Mechanized Company
> 266 Crusader Hailstorm Squadron
> 267 Sons of Grimaldus
> 268 The Legion Ascendant
> 269 Firestorm Nexus
> 270 Imperial Stronghold
> 271 Bikeboyz Kult of Speed
> 272 ?
> 273 ?
> 274 Karnage Skwadron
> 275 Ork Storma Elite
> 276 Overlord Von Strab
> 277 Red Skull Kommandoes
> 278 Stompa Mob
> ?? Reference pages
> -------------------------------------
> 
> 
> *FORMATION DETAILS*
> "With 11 distinct classes of formation, you can take your choice from the C'tan-powered Tesseract Vault to an entire Battle Company of Space Marines!"
> 
> I would guess two of the missing three are Super-heavy Fliers and Gargantuan Creatures. Not sure what the 11th could be.
> There are distinct icons for various formations:
> Skull inside a Cog- Superheavy Vehicle
> Three Skulls over 3 Arrows- Battle Formation
> Xenos Skull with Mandibles- Gargantuan Creature?
> Force Organization DOES seem to exist in Apoc in some form, as the Command Tank upgrade for Baneblade and Stormsword specifies that they both become a high command formation (bonus Strategic asset?) and a HQ choice.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> *STRATEGIC ASSETS *
> Each side gets a number of Strategic Assets equal to the total number of players on the largest side. Each player then chooses one, and if one side is smaller than the other, that sides "Warmaster" gets to choose the leftover objectives. Additionally, some High Command Formations and rules give a player (not side) bonus assets (which would explain why the command tank upgrade on the Baneblade is so expensive) Assets may not be duplicated on a side.
> 
> 
> *Asset Listing*
> Guesses/partials in bold. (63 total) Additionally, Battlezone Armageddon includes some additional assets.
> 
> 
> _ANY ARMY_
> Blind Barrage
> Camouflage
> Flank March
> Minefields
> Orbital Bombardment
> Precise Coordinates
> Rearm
> Replacements
> Shield Generator
> Supreme Headquarters
> Trophy Kill
> 
> _IMPERIAL GUARD_
> Bombardment
> On My Coordinates
> 
> 
> _SPACE MARINES_
> Crusade Banner *Fury of the Just*
> 
> 
> _CHAOS SPACE MARINES_
> Corrupt and Despoil *?? Altar*
> 
> 
> _CHAOS DAEMONS_
> Blood Thirst
> Grand Pavane
> Entropic Plague
> 
> 
> _ORKS_
> Rok 'em Boyz *Stand To, Ladz!*
> 
> 
> _TAU_
> Darkstar Warhead
> Icefire Warhead
> 
> 
> _ELDAR_
> Waygate
> 
> 
> _DARK ELDAR_
> *Murderous Pain* *Combat Stimms*
> 
> 
> _TYRANIDS_
> 
> 
> _NECRONS _
> 
> 
> _UNKNOWN _
> *?? Horror*
> ----------------------------------------
> * Missing formations from Apoc 1, Reloaded, WD, and Web formations*
> I left out the various superheavies and formations that have been modified either into codex units (Plague of Zombies) or alternate but very similar formations (Seer council of Ulthwe, Thousand Sons Warcoven)
> 
> 
> _*Missing from Apoc original:*_
> IG Ogryn Auxila
> SM Armored Spearhead
> SM Suppression Force
> SM Linebreaker Squadron
> Eldar Aspect Assault Wave
> Eldar Spirit Host
> Tyranid Hive Mind Brood
> Tyranid Mycetic Assault Storm
> Tau Armored Interdiction Cadre
> 
> _*Missing from Apoc Reloaded:*_
> IG Hellstorm Squadron
> SM Ultramarines Honor Guard
> SM Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force
> SM Deathknell Orbital Strike Force
> Orks Deffkopta Choppa Skwadron
> Orks Loota Wreckin' Krew
> Eldar Baharroth's Tempest
> Eldar Shard of the Void Weaver
> Eldar Great Court of the young King
> Tyranid Genestealer Infestation
> Tyranid Kraken Tendril Swarm
> Tyranid Behemoth Crusher Brood
> Tyranid Eye of the Hive
> Tau Farstrike Battlesuit Force
> Tau Firestream Piranha Wing
> Necron Resurrection War Cell
> Necrons Stormcaller War Cell
> CSM Hounds of Huron
> CSM Doombringer Annhilation Force
> CSM Slaughterfiend Bloodpack
> Daemons Host of the Daemonforge
> Daemons Karanak's Hunt
> 
> * Missing from Web/WD:*
> IG Bellapheron pattern Aerial Domination Force
> IG Shadowsword Domination Force
> IG 'Emperor's Deliverance' Rocket Battery
> IG 'Mailed Fist' Tank Command
> SM Hellstorm Assault Force
> SM Thunderfire Defense Battery
> SM Shrike's Talons
> BA Deathstorm Strike Force
> BA Thunderhawk Assault Force
> BA Archangel Skyforce
> BA Dante's Sanguine Host
> BA Firestorm Strike Force
> SW Sternhammers Wulfen Guard
> GK Redeemer Force
> GK Officio Assassinorum Execution Force
> GK Extermination Strike Force
> GK Crusade of Fire
> Orks Trukk Konvoy
> Orks Submersible
> Orks Shokk Attack Battery
> Orks Minelayer
> Eldar Ulthwe Strike Force
> Eldar Shadow Sect of Karandas
> Eldar Shadow Walker Formation
> Eldar Saim-Hann Serpent Squadron
> Eldar Deathweaver Squadron
> Tyranid Screamer Killer Brood
> Tyranid Leviathan Gargoyle Swarm
> Tyranid Bioshock Brood
> Tyranid Tunnel Swarm
> Tau Mirage Long Range Infiltration
> Necrons Shroudweaver War Cell
> Necrons Ghost Strider Phalanx
> Necrons Triarch Lawbringer Phalanx
> CSM Angron Daemon Primarch
> CSM Defiler Assault Force
> CSM Emperor's Children Warband
> CSM Maelstrom of Gore
> Daemons Bloodthirster Bloodbath
> Daemons Outriders of the Brazen Host
> Daemons The Brotherhood of Blood
> Daemons The Changeling's Grand Dissimulation
> Daemons The Fateweaver's Council of Despair
> Imperium Defense Laser
> SoB Purge Squadron
> SoB Repenetant Host


Now, we can note that the guesses are all FW things, something that should be covered by FW in their Apoc book (which was rumored to be getting updated about this time). So that may just be wishful thinking on the poster's part.


----------



## MidnightSun

As far as I can read the text, Replacements can be used on anything with a total of 15 or fewer Hull Points. So bar a squadron of 5 Baneblades or something, it's still going to be taken by abso-fucking-lutely everyone?

At least they fixed Flank March.

The models I don't care about, I'll have to make new Imperial versions anyway.

Midnight


----------



## Archon Dan

Thanks for the lists, Zion. Does anybody know if you can use any of the older, apparently dropped formations? I love using the BA Deathstorm and Firestorm strike forces.


----------



## Zion

From the 40k Apoc Blog:



> I got to ask someone with an Apocalypse Rulebook some questions. Here is the first of them along with answers straight from the Rulebook.
> 
> *1) What Titans are in the book?*
> 
> Phantom, Revenant. Imperial Reaver and Warhound. Harridan and Hierophant Bio-titan for tyranids. The imperial reaver and warhound are in the warzone armageddon section, so maybe there's some more in the limited edition warzone?
> 
> *2) What about Flank March?*
> 
> Use this strategic asset when an Apocalypse Formation enters play from strategic reserve. That formation may enter play from any table edge.
> 
> *3) Explain how Super Heavy Vehicles work.*
> 
> Structure points are removed, only Hullpoints now, but for old models 1 structure is 3 hullpoints. They're immune to shaken/stunned/weapon destroyed/immobilised. An explode result removes an extra D3 hull points. When it loses the last hull point it always explodes, there's a table with how bad the explosion is. Basically:
> 
> Roll a D6
> 
> 1= D/4/2 AP2/4/6
> 2-3= D/8/4 Ap2/3/5
> 6=D/10/5 AP2/3/4
> 
> I'll explain why there are so many numbers. You use the 15" template for this. for the the inner circle (5"), 2nd circle you use 2nd (5"-10") and last number for 10"-15"
> 
> There are some weapons that work like that aswell.
> 
> Movement 6", walkers 12".
> *
> 4) Explain the Destroyer Weapons Table.*
> 
> You roll on the table instead of rolling to wound or armour penetration. No saves of any kind (even invulnerable, Feel No Pain or Necron Reanimation Protocols) can be taken against them now.
> 
> vs vehicles D6 roll:
> 
> 1= target suffers penetrating hit.
> 2-5 Super heavies lose D3+1 hull points, other normal vehicles suffer
> Explode! result.
> 6= as above but D6 +6 hull points lost for super heavies.
> 
> vs non-vehicle D6 roll:
> 
> 1= avoid shot
> 2-5 model loses D3+1 wounds (I like this as monstrous creatures can
> survive 2 or 3 shots now so daemons and tyranids will be happy)
> 6= D6+6 wounds
> 
> The last table count for gargantuan creatures as well.
> 
> 
> That's it for now. "D" weapons got crazy powerful! Your invunerable save/FNP/Necron RAP is worthless against that "D" weapon now! And regular vehicles are TOAST!
> 
> I see "D" weapons being severely house ruled from here out.


If D weapons are really that strong I hope they got a MASSIVE points adjustment, if not all out limitation. With the inability to get ANY saves (to include Invulnerable saves) they're just a bit too nasty sounding id they're the same cost as they are now.


----------



## tu_shan82

Any idea about how 'D' weapons affect Eternal Warrior. Also does anyone know what's happening with the other datasheets that aren't included. I'll be a little sad if I can't take Linebreaker Squadrons anymore and if I happened to be one of these poor bastards who went to the trouble of scratch building and converting things like Plague Reapers, Brass Scorpions , Sliver Towers and Plague Towers I'd be seriously pissed off about it. And if I'd gone to the trouble of scratchbuilding something like a Warlord Titan I'd probably do something like steel a bulldozer and crash it the the front window of my local GW store or kidnap Mark Wells and take to his testicles with a car battery and jumper leads.


----------



## Archon Dan

Zion said:


> From the 40k Apoc Blog:
> 
> 
> 
> If D weapons are really that strong I hope they got a MASSIVE points adjustment, if not all out limitation. With the inability to get ANY saves (to include Invulnerable saves) they're just a bit too nasty sounding id they're the same cost as they are now.


I'm really hoping they are not that strong. Kind of insane to deny Invulnerable saves. Thought they learned that with Pariahs; and those things rarely made close combat. But many D-weapons have such great range and squad-eliminating-ability. And why would you bother giving the strength D blasts on the Apocolyptic Explosion table you quoted an AP value if they ignore so much?



tu_shan82 said:


> Any idea about how 'D' weapons affect Eternal Warrior. Also does anyone know what's happening with the other datasheets that aren't included. I'll be a little sad if I can't take Linebreaker Squadrons anymore and if I happened to be one of these poor bastards who went to the trouble of scratch building and converting things like Plague Reapers, Brass Scorpions , Sliver Towers and Plague Towers I'd be seriously pissed off about it. And if I'd gone to the trouble of scratchbuilding something like a Warlord Titan I'd probably do something like steel a bulldozer and crash it the the front window of my local GW store or kidnap Mark Wells and take to his testicles with a car battery and jumper leads.



You get kinky when you're angry. :biggrin::biggrin:


----------



## MidnightSun

> You roll on the table instead of rolling to wound or armour penetration. No saves of any kind (even invulnerable, Feel No Pain or Necron Reanimation Protocols) can be taken against them now.
> 
> vs vehicles D6 roll:
> 
> 1= target suffers penetrating hit.
> 2-5 Super heavies lose D3+1 hull points, other normal vehicles suffer
> Explode! result.
> 6= as above but D6 +6 hull points lost for super heavies.
> 
> vs non-vehicle D6 roll:
> 
> 1= avoid shot
> 2-5 model loses D3+1 wounds (I like this as monstrous creatures can
> survive 2 or 3 shots now so daemons and tyranids will be happy)
> 6= D6+6 wounds
> 
> The last table count for gargantuan creatures as well.
> 
> 
> That's it for now. "D" weapons got crazy powerful! Your invunerable save/FNP/Necron RAP is worthless against that "D" weapon now! And regular vehicles are TOAST!
> 
> I see "D" weapons being severely house ruled from here out.


Oh, Eldar, you thought your Holo-Fields could protect you... I'm afraid only Imperials get decent super-heavy defence (Orks can go fuck themselves, one Power Field, pfff).

If this is true, I see the new kits selling like second-hand toilet paper. Imperial Titans will become even better, Eldar Titans except the Phantom will become shit-worthless, and anything without multiple layers of shielding? No.

Midnight


----------



## Bubblematrix

MidnightSun said:


> Oh, Eldar, you thought your Holo-Fields could protect you...


I haven't got the book to hand, will check when I get home, but unless they screw with them the holo-fields weren't a save, just an additional roll to ignore a hit.

Though all current changes to rules like that shift them to cover saves etc - so likely they will get that nerf.

Tbh if Eldar titans lose their unique save and the change is that superheavies just have lots of regular structure points then I totally agree that Eldar titans will be the first thing into the rubbish pile, I certainly wouldn't buy another.

As for saves to strength D weapons - you are firing a weapon so strong that literally melts tanks, only those with some god imbued right to survive (read eternal warrior) should be surviving such shots.


----------



## Zion

More stuff from the 40k Apoc blog:



> More insight into the new Apocalypse Rulebook.
> 
> Formations do not cost anything to include and they're split into sections, which are:
> 
> Armoured Spearheads
> Flyer Wings
> Battle Formations (this is the old basic formation type)
> High Commands
> Massive fortifications
> Psychic Choirs
> Super-heavy vehicles/walkers/flyers and Gargantuan Creatures/Flying
> 
> *Armoured Spearheads* are for vehicles, there 3 formations you can do and each one gives the vehicles a special rule. For example if you place 5 predators side by side with the front forming a straight line they would be in "broadsword" formation and gain preferred Enemy.
> 
> *Flying Wings* are the same, just with flyers
> 
> *High Commands*: Models in this are treated as 1 unit, examples of this is the phoenix court of khaine where you have the avatar and the 6 phoenix lords in 1 unit, or masters of the chapter where you can have 1 chapter master, 0-1 honour guard, 4-10 captain all in 1 unit (and they cant leave even if they're independent characters). Once per game you also can get another strategic asset per high command. They can also order an all-out attack, which makes a single unit triple it's movement but cannot shoot or tun, but can assault.
> 
> *Massive Fortifications* are obviously the ones we saw, some have an AV of 15!
> 
> *Psychic Choirs* have a special psychic power that they can use and pool all of their warp charge points. Theres a different table instead of perils of the warp if you mess up on this power though, wont spoil everything but lets just say some big daemons can come out...
> 
> *Super Heavy Vehicles *can use a ram/tank shock attack called thunderblitz, has its own table, can run over models and hit vehicles hard.
> 
> Super heavy walkers cannot overwatch even against other super heavy walkers or  gargantuan creatures, same applies vice versa. Walkers and gargantuan creatures have a different "stomp" attack now. They get D3 stomp attacks and each stomp is a 3"blast marker, 1st one touching the walker, then other within 3" etc. There's a table to decide what happens under each stomp, for example on a 6 all normal non vehicles models are removed from play so getting up close can be a bit riskier now, although the 2-5 result is a S6 ap4 hit. can stomp normal vehicles too, the 6 result is fun.
> 
> *Super Heavy Flyers* cannot evade and are destroyed the same way as the super heavy vehicle (not the crash and burn rules for normal flyers).
> 
> 
> *Finest Hour*
> 
> Each warlord can use this once per game, it's like a warlord trait but much more pwerful, also for that turn he'll have a 3+ inv save and eternal warrior but if you do lose him in that turn the opponent scores 1 strategic victory point. There's 3 tables to roll on to see what he gets. For Space marines and the chaos ones theres a table with all the different 1st founding chapters, all of them have a different ability which is a really great (it's called Sons of the Primarch instead of the finest hour)
> 
> *Divine Intervention*
> 
> Another table... this one is split depending on the gods or something close for others (hive mind, greater good etc), so the emperor for imperium, gork and mork for orks etc. These events have a trigger component so for example for the imperium, it triggers when you lose half of your army, all units will then gain Furious charge and fearless and effects lasts until his next turn.
> 
> *Void Shields*
> 
> Void shields work differently now. Instead of the roll per structure point left you now roll for each void shield that's collapsed and on a 5+ you regain it. You roll at the end of your turn.


From Darog's Company:


> No force organization chart, ALL units are scoring, even HQ everything.
> 
> Scenarios
> 
> there's 6 in the normal part, + 3 more for warzone: Armageddon.
> 
> Allies: all armies on the same side are treated as Allies. Armies from the same codex but commanded by different players are considered battlebrothers. Armies that according to the allies matrix ally are "come the apocalypse" count each other as desperate allies. It doesnt say that you HAVE to use the allies matrix in fact it says "alternatively" for when you cant decide which players are put in which team.
> 
> 
> Thunderhawk costs 215 points less, but to get the turbo laser it's 90 points. AV is 12 12 10 (-2 from the rear) and Hull points is 9 only (would have been 12 normally). Has power of the machine spirit.
> 
> 
> Eldar Phantom Titan is in the book, holo fields changed again: Before making an armour penetration roll or rolling on the Destroyer damage table (yes there's a table to roll on for destroyer weapons, good news for some bad for others)
> You roll a D6, if the titan moved the weapon will hit on a 4+ and proceed to armour penetration, if it didnt move it's on a 3+. Points cost the same, other different thing is the aa launcher which is now a S7 AP3 heavy 4, skyfire, interceptor. 24HP, same as before.
> 
> Space wolves formations
> 
> Great Company: stubborn for all.
> All models in the formation re-roll their charge moves and re-roll to hit rolls on overwatch.
> x1 per game start of assault phase all within 18" of the wolf lord/Ragnar gain furious charge and fleet.
> 
> 5 runepristes is the same as 5 libarians, called Librarius: They're a psychic choir formation (see the blog post from Loken for more info) and get a choir power. Warp charge 4, 24", S, Ap1, Heavy 1, large blast, Vortex. Vortex doesnt destroy everything like it used to, it's a normal D weapon but the blast stays on the table and scatters 2D6 each turn, on a double it disappears. In the case of this power though when it dispappears the game will start using the Seismic explosion rules as the vortex buries itself into the plant's surface.
> 
> Then there's Brethren of the Great wolf, which contains logan, njal, ulrik, arjac, bjorn and 1 wolf guard pack. It's a high command formation, wolf guard needs to have the banner of the great wolf which within 24" all have Furios charge. Formation has fear and all space wolves on the table have stubborn. Then all characters in the formation can all do the finest hour/sons of primarch buff not just one, but all at the same turn so it's a mega strong unit for that turn.
> 
> Wolfpack flanking force, wolflord on wolf/canis wolfborn, 2+ thunderwolf units, 5+ fenrisian wolve packs. Acute senses, hit and run, outflank, rage and can charge in the turn they arrive from reserves.
> 
> 
> Lord Castellan's Supreme Command
> 
> Lord castellan creed includes him, kell, a company command squad and an Imperial bastion. When his unit is in the bastion he can issue orders to units anywhere on the table. The master of ordnance can make D3+1 artillery bombardments instead of 1. The formation is a high command formation, so you receive 1 extra strategic asset normally in the break, in Creed's case though you receive 2 assets.
> 
> CSM formations
> 
> Lord of the Black Crusade is Abaddon and Kharn, Ahriman, Lucius, Typhus or lords with mark of khorne instead of Kharn etc. High Command Formation. They can all use the finest hour/sons of primarch at the same turn.
> The planet killer: once per game you can have Abaddon's flagship start bombarding so from now on you start using the Magma Storm Unnatural Disaster table. You are the master of disaster as long as abaddon is alive. Basically there's a table you roll on and it affects everybody, but if you're the master of disaster you're the one that begins applying the results. so if you get a result to do D3 blasts and you roll a 3, the master of disaster places the 1st one, then your opponent, then the master, so yoou have that advantage when you roll an odd number.
> 
> Legionnaire Warband: When in close cobat with any loyal space marine they re-roll to hit every round of combat. And if they're within 12" of loyal space marines they get fearless. That's the only rule.
> 
> Lost and the Damned: 1 Dark Apostle, 6+ chaos cultist units. Gain inflitrate. After each break you can return a single unit of cultists. All cultists in the formation have feel no pain and furious charge.
> 
> 
> Dark Eldar formations
> 
> There's 5 of them. I'll detail two of them:
> 
> Ravager Titan Hunters: Armoured spearhead formation. Any ravager within 6" of the command vehicle (including the command vehicle) gets shrouded. The command vehicle has a shadow ray weapon in addition to the normal stuff. You shoot it before you shoot the rest of the dark lances. If it hits then any subsequesnt hits by any ravager in the formation will ignore the effect of Void shield, power fields AND eldar titan holo-fields. Range for the shadow ray is 36".
> 
> Dark Olympiad. 1 succubus or lelith, 0+ hekatrix bloodbrides, 2+ wyches units, 1+ hellions, 0+ beastmasters, 1+ reavers. The beastmasters and the beast gain the efffects of combat drugs. With this formation you roll twice on the combat drugs table and apply BOTH. if you have duke sliscus you roll 3 dice and choose 2. Whenever anything from this formation gets a pain token you can give a free extra pain token to anything within 24".
> 
> Sons of Grimaldus
> 
> This is the company style formation I mentioned. They all get feel no pain, all dword brethren gain fearless and hatred(orks). When charging any unit from codexrks they gain furious charge. This formation is from Warzone :Armageddon so that's why it's themed against the orcs.
> 
> Tau
> 
> Tigershark isnt in the book, as you said it's just been updated in IA3-2nd so there's no units in the book other than formations for Tau.
> The riptide wing contains 3+ riptides. Any riptide that shoots on a unit that another riptide has already shot at gets +1BS. Each Riptide within 6" of another riptide can re-roll Nova reactor tests.
> 
> Tyranids
> 
> Hierophant is 250 points cheaper. Bio-cannon is assault 6, and he also has a 6+ inv save.
> 
> vanguard infestation: 3+ genestealer broods, 3+ lictors (can be deathleaper). On the turn they arrive from reserve all enemy units within 36" use their lowest LD. All unit are deployed like the lictor's Chameleonic skin, even the genestealers
> 
> Living fortress: 2 hive tyrants (can be swarmlord), 3 tyrant guard, 3 hive guard. Feel no pain for all. Any tyranids within synapse range of a hive tyrant from this formation has the preferred enemy and counter attack rules.
> If they're attacked by a shooting attack they can form a Fortress of Chitin. They get shrouded and add +! to there armour saves but the formation moves as if iin difficult terrain next turn. Btw this is a hig command formation, so extra asset


Everything scoring is a good way to balance the fact that the troops got nerfed in this (so you won't need them for objectives anymore).


----------



## Zion

More rumors for you! Yes, the do just keep coming.

From Faeit212:


> *Apocalypse Information*
> *via Engrimm*
> *What are the scenarios?*
> there's 6 in the normal part, + 3 more for warzone: Armageddon.
> _*Allies*_
> all armies on the same side are treated as Allies. Armies from the same codex but commanded by different players are considered battlebrothers. Armies that according to the allies matrix ally are "come the apocalypse" count each other as desperate allies. It doesnt say that you HAVE to use the allies matrix in fact it says "alternatively" for when you cant decide which players are put in which team.
> _*FOC and Scoring Units*_
> Biggy: No force organization chart, in fact something which I forgot to mention, ALL units are scoring, even HQ everything.
> *What is the book's definition of a "break"?*
> Exactly as it sounds, it's a lunch break etc, in their example there were 2 breaks, so scoring is done 1 startegic victory point per objective 1st break, 2 points for the 2nd break, and 3 points at the end.
> 
> _*what do you get bonus wise for fielding the Space Wolf Formations, ie Great Company and such. *_
> _*Great Company: stubborn for all.*_
> All models in the formation re-roll their charge moves and re-roll to hit rolls on overwatch.
> x1 per game start of assault phase all within 18" of the wolf lord/Ragnar gain furious charge and fleet.
> 
> 5 runepristes is the same as 5 libarians, called Librarius: They're a psychic choir formation (see the blog post from Loken for more info) and get a choir power. Warp charge 4, 24", S, Ap1, Heavy 1, large blast, Vortex. Vortex doesnt destroy everything like it used to, it's a normal D weapon but the blast stays on the table and scatters 2D6 each turn, on a double it disappears. In the case of this power though when it dispappears the game will start using the Seismic explosion rules as the vortex buries itself into the plant's surface.
> 
> Then there's Brethren of the Great wolf, which contains logan, njal, ulrik, arjac, bjorn and 1 wolf guard pack. It's a high command formation, wolf guard needs to have the banner of the great wolf which within 24" all have Furios charge. Formation has fear and all space wolves on the table have stubborn. Then all characters in the formation can all do the finest hour/sons of primarch buff not just one, but all at the same turn so it's a mega strong unit for that turn.
> 
> Wolfpack flanking force, wolflord on wolf/canis wolfborn, 2+ thunderwolf units, 5+ fenrisian wolve packs. Acute senses, hit and run, outflank, rage and can charge in the turn they arrive from reserves
> *the Lord Castellan's Supreme Command. *
> Lord castellan creed includes him, kell, a company command squad and an Imperial bastion. When his unit is in the bastion he can issue orders to units anywhere on the table. The master of ordnance can make D3+1 artillery bombardments instead of 1. The formation is a high command formation, so you receive 1 extra strategic asset normally in the break, in Creed's case though you receive 2 assets.
> 
> _*Lords of the Black Crusade,*_
> Lord of the Black Crusade is Abaddon and Kharn, Ahriman, Lucius, Typhus or lords with mark of khorne instead of Kharn etc. High Command Formation. They can all use the finest hour/sons of primarch at the same turn.
> The planet killer: once per game you can have Abaddon's flagship start bombarding so from now on you start using the Magma Storm Unnatural Disaster table. You are the master of disaster as long as abaddon is alive. Basically there's a table you roll on and it affects everybody, but if you're the master of disaster you're the one that begins applying the results. so if you get a result to do D3 blasts and you roll a 3, the master of disaster places the 1st one, then your opponent, then the master, so yoou have that advantage when you roll an odd number.
> 
> _*The Lost and The Damned*_
> Lost and the Damned: 1 Dark Apostle, 6+ chaos cultist units. Gain inflitrate. After each break you can return a single unit of cultists. All cultists in the formation have feel no pain and furious charge.
> 
> _*Legionnaire Warband*_
> Legionnaire Warband: When in close cobat with any loyal space marine they re-roll to hit every round of combat. And if they're within 12" of loyal space marines they get fearless. That's the only rule.
> 
> 
> _*Sons of Grimaldus formation*_
> They all get feel no pain, all dword brethren gain fearless and hatred(orks). When charging any unit from codexrks they gain furious charge. This formation is from Warzone :Armageddon so that's why it's themed against the orcs.
> _*Black Templar*_
> Black templars have 2 formations in Warzone armageddon, one's for land raider crusaders and the other for a company style.
> 
> _*Dark Eldar Formations*_
> Dark Eldar formations are incredibly great in my opinion. There's 5 of them. I'll detail two of them:
> 
> Ravager Titan Hunters: Armoured spearhead formation. Any ravager within 6" of the command vehicle (including the command vehicle) gets shrouded. The command vehicle has a shadow ray weapon in addition to the normal stuff. You shoot it before you shoot the rest of the dark lances. If it hits then any subsequesnt hits by any ravager in the formation will ignore the effect of Void shield, power fields AND eldar titan holo-fields. Range for the shadow ray is 36".
> 
> Dark Olympiad. 1 succubus or lelith, 0+ hekatrix bloodbrides, 2+ wyches units, 1+ hellions, 0+ beastmasters, 1+ reavers. The beastmasters and  the beast gain the efffects of combat drugs. With this formation you roll twice on the combat drugs table and apply BOTH. if you have duke sliscus you roll 3 dice and choose 2. Whenever anything from this formation gets a pain token you can give a free extra pain token to anything within 24".
> 
> 
> *Thunderhawk Gunship*
> Thunderhawk costs 215 points less, but to get the turbo laser it's 90 points. AV is 12 12 10 (-2 from the rear) and Hull points is 9 only (would have been 12 normally). Has power of the machine spirit.
> 
> 
> _*Tau*_
> Tigershark isnt in the book, as you said it's just been updated in IA3-2nd so there's no units in the book other than formations for Tau.
> The riptide wing contains 3+ riptides. Any riptide that shoots on a unit that another riptide has already shot at gets +1BS. Each Riptide within 6" of another riptide can re-roll Nova reactor tests.
> 
> 
> _*Tyranids*_
> Hierophant is 250 points cheaper. Bio-cannon is assault 6, and he also has a 6+ inv save.
> 
> vanguard infestation: 3+ genestealer broods, 3+ lictors (can be deathleaper). On the turn they arrive from reserve all enemy units within 36" use their lowest LD. All unit are deployed like the lictor's Chameleonic skin, even the genestealers
> 
> Living fortress: 2 hive tyrants (can be swarmlord), 3 tyrant guard, 3 hive guard. Feel no pain for all. Any tyranids within synapse range of a hive tyrant from this formation has the preferred enemy and counter attack rules.
> If they're attacked by a shooting attack they can form a Fortress of Chitin. They get shrouded and add +! to there armour saves but the formation moves as if iin difficult terrain next turn. Btw this is a hig command formation, so extra asset


From BoLS:


> *Holo-Fields*
> Eldar titan holo-fields: Before rolling for damage (including the destroyer table, so yes they work vs D weapons) you roll a D6 per hit so see if it hits the titan or the holo-field image. If it moved it hits on 4+, if it didnt hits on 3+. Same thing for the Revenant. Phantom is pages 146-147, Revenant 148-149 if you want to update the list
> 
> *Apocalypse Fortifications*
> The Aquila strongpoint can be armed with macro cannon or vortex missile (it isnt remove everything it touches anymore although still powerful). They cost quite a bit, *AV15 all sides*. Macro cannon can fire in two ways, 1st is 2 D shots large blast, 2nd apocalyptic megablast at S10/7/5 Ap1/4/6 (1st number for the 5" at the centre, 5-10" 2nd, 10-15" 3rd). This shot also has a sonic boom rule, which affects flying stuff in the path of the shell, not going to go into more detail as the mods will kick me out soon
> 
> *Titan Optional Weapons*
> _Q: Can you please just confirm if Titans pay extra points for different weapons or as current they swap them out for free? _
> A: For old models like the Reaver/Phantom titans etc it's still free to choose. Others like the Tesseract vault/transcendant c'tan have to pay for their weapons, so maybe newer models will be following this example. The D weapon for the C'tan is Hellstorm template, and it isn't the highest points cost ability that he gets, there's 2 that cost more.
> 
> *Necrons*
> The Tesseract vault chooses 2 powers (weapons) from 6. If you deploy the Transcendent C'tan on it's own (which counts as a gargantuan creature) you choose 1 power from 3, and 2 weapon powers from 6 again. C'tan outside of vault costs more than being inside. So buying the Tesseract vault to field it as the Obelisk and Transcendent C'tan is quite a bargain in my opinion as you'ed be going very close to 1k points with just 1 purchase.


----------



## Djinn24

Hmmm the Eldar holofields got a nerf, no longer a save so you can not give it a reroll. Probably needed though as it was pretty damn powerful.


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## Bubblematrix

djinn24 said:


> Hmmm the Eldar holofields got a nerf, no longer a save so you can not give it a reroll. Probably needed though as it was pretty damn powerful.


But without that change(?) they interact terribly with strength D weapons, in fact they always must have as they don't allow saves.

Making it a separate roll makes it completely immune to all the rules effects out there which dick with saves, which means the Eldar titans will always have a 3+/4+ "save" no matter what manner of silliness is targeting them - this I very much prefer to even a 2++ which in apocalypse will be ignored a little bit too often.

Also I like that I can leave my titan stationary and still get the "save", means immobilised titans aren't insta-dead now and if I don't have the space I don't need to have my titan doing the 6" jig.


----------



## Styro-J

Also, since it isn't a save. You could still get a save if you had one. Revenant standing behind a ruin? 4+ "Gotcha!" Check, followed by a 4+ Cover Save. Not too helpful vs Str D but very helpful against normal heavy weapons. With AV 12, they need all that help.


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## Djinn24

Good points.


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## Bubblematrix

The standard structure points bit for superheavies does make me think I need to test a scorpion before buying one though, am not sure that the Eldar glass tanks are going to survive apocalypse well and a scorpion is a big investment of both money and points


----------



## maelstrom48

Speaking of super heavies, any word on ordnance snap fire? As in when a super heavy vehicle fires an ordnance weapon, are all its other weapons forced to fire snap shots? I know this was addressed in the FW Heresy FAQ but I'm curious as to whether GW will be doing the same.


----------



## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH

I must say I like a lot of these changes except for 2 things: Scoring and Destroyer weapons.

Destroyer weapons are obviously extremely overpowered and it doesn't sound like there's going to be fewer units with them. While the table for non-vehicles seem rather reasonable the one against them is certainly not. We will definitely houserule them.

With the scoring rules GW again proves that they don't care too much about the game but are more interested in selling their newest toys. We will be sticking to the only Troops can score mantra as anything else just invites all sorts of sillyness. Besides, superheavies has taken yet another nerf as, from what I have seen, most of them are slightly more expensive and they are certainly easier to destroy meaning that troops are more useful in apocalypse than ever.


----------



## Zion

AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH said:


> I must say I like a lot of these changes except for 2 things: Scoring and Destroyer weapons.
> 
> Destroyer weapons are obviously extremely overpowered and it doesn't sound like there's going to be fewer units with them. While the table for non-vehicles seem rather reasonable the one against them is certainly not. We will definitely houserule them.
> 
> With the scoring rules GW again proves that they don't care too much about the game but are more interested in selling their newest toys. We will be sticking to the only Troops can score mantra as anything else just invites all sorts of sillyness. Besides, superheavies has taken yet another nerf as, from what I have seen, most of them are slightly more expensive and they are certainly easier to destroy meaning that troops are more useful in apocalypse than ever.


The scoring change has come about because of the D-weapon change I think. Those weapons are too powerful now to allow someone to wipe their opponent's Troops off the table in a turn and then win (or stalemate) the game.


----------



## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH

D weapons can do that any way now that anything but superheavies pretty much are gone from one shot. At least the old D-weapons only caused autopens. Maybe GW just wants apocalypse to ONLY be played with superheavies. I don't know. I just know that those are the two things that my gaming group is going to flat out ignore.


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## Styro-J

The plus side is that non vehicles are much more survivable against Str D than non SH vehicles. Infantry list could feasibly do better now. Super Heavies are buffed from forge world's 6th end patch. But honestly they needed it. FW had them stun/shaken locked into oblivion until they folded from hull points.


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## d3m01iti0n

Damn BT should get FnP all the time!


----------



## falcoso

HAs anyone heard anything about the monolith phalanx? or the other monolith-based formation? It doesn't appear to be on the lists of what is in or out.

So are all the formations not used in this book now not usable, obviously you would have to use the most up to date version of any o the formations whih have been updated, but can you still use old ones?


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## Zion

*Apocalypse Leak! 27 Leaked Pages*

So who wants to see a bunch of pages out of the Apoc book leaked on Chinese websites? Well here you go, by the way of a Spanish speaking messageboard:

Source: WARHAMMER FREAK FACTORY - Índice de subforos


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## Archon Dan

Looks pretty fun with all the bits and bobs shown there. But as I have been thinking, Apocalypse appears to be less "big games of 40K" and more like Storm of Magic is for Fantasy. You still use all the same models, plus a few more as well as most of the basic rules plus a bunch more. I'm liking most of what I see.


----------



## Zion

Some of the Q&A from Faeit212:



> Q: What's the rules on vehicle damage chart and super heavies?
> A: Super heavies ignore shaken/stunned/immobilised/weapon destroyed, for explode they take an extra D3 hull points damage.
> 
> Q: Tesseract Vault. Any unique rules, armour values. Also describe some of its powers too if you can. And maybe give a general point cost.
> A: Tesseract vault - 14AV all around. Points cost is 315 but can double up delending on what powers you choose (up to 2). One of them is a 48" S8 AP3 Heavy 6D6 attack, another is a hellstorm template S ap1.
> 
> Q: Same for the Obelisk too. How does its gravation pulse work and how strong is it
> A: Obelisk gravity pulse: all flyers or skimmer within 24" suffer a S8 Ap4 on the side armour. Also has four weapons (the tesla spheres at the corners)
> 
> Q: Is there any mention of superhevies and the like that were left out, such as the Plaguereaper
> A: Nothing about the missing ones, remember we'll be seeing the new Imperial armour apocalypse soon though so there might be something new there.
> 
> Q: What does the big formation of Wraithknights do?
> A: For each wraithknight there is in the formation you add that number to their movement, charge range, WS and BS, so if you have 5 thats +5 to all the things I mentioned. Doesnt need to be close together.
> 
> Q: What does the big formation with all the Necron Monoliths do?
> A: The baleful necroplis consists of 8 monoliths and 1 tesseract vault. The vault will have an extra S weapon and each monolith close to it can increase it's range. Any monolith close to the vault also gets it will not die and 6+ inv and then increases upo to 4+ inv depending on how many monoliths are close.
> 
> Q: Is there anything for the Sisters of Battle? Not Imperium General, but Sister of Battle Specific.
> A: Nothing for Sisters of battle.
> 
> Q: Alright, so how is the "everyone can take super heavies" thing actually work?
> A: You can use anythign on your army, so if you want to use a tau army with a tesseract vault and a lord of skulls you can do that, there's no restrictions at all.
> 
> Q: What do the sons of Vulkan do during there finest hour?
> A: Warlord's melee attacks are S:10 and all weapons use by him gain concussive and strikedown
> 
> Q: What does the ravenwing formation do?
> A: Ranges of Icon of the Old Caliban and shround of the angels is doubled. Once per game all the formation can turbo boost and shoot as well.
> 
> Q: What do the tau strategic assest do and what about thier formations
> A: there's 7 formations for Tau so here's one of them: Air auperiority wing, 3-5 razorsharks. +1 to hit vs flyers, super heavy flyers jetbikes, skimmers, flying monsters, flying gargantuans.
> 
> Also as long as one model from the foramtion is on the table you gain an extra D3 markerlight tokens to place on any enemy on the table.
> 
> And here's a strategic asset:It's a shooting attack done by the warlord, infinite range, S1, Ap1, ordnance 1, 10" blast fleshbane, ignores covere, requires you to spend a victory point to charge it though.
> 
> Q: Are there any limitations (outside of points) to what your army can field? Could I say, field an army entirely of Warlord titans if I wanted?
> A: Yes you could, as everything is scoring now, even independent characters and super heavies etc


So there you go. I'll bring more as soon as I have more.


----------



## Bubblematrix

> Q: Alright, so how is the "everyone can take super heavies" thing actually work?
> A: You can use anythign on your army, so if you want to use a tau army with a tesseract vault and a lord of skulls you can do that, there's no restrictions at all.


Riiight, that one again.

I understand where this rule comes from, but I have never played it, playing one huge army is always more impressive and imo a little fairer than cherry picking.

That said, not many people can field 10k of a single army so understandable that this is in there, still, space marines with a tesseract vault seems a bit of a "lets sell some models" stretch


----------



## d3m01iti0n

Fuuuuuuck yeah BT is still very much in the game! Thanks for the love GW, you just earned my $75 for this book. Feth it, Ill buy a Thunderhawk.


----------



## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH

Bubblematrix said:


> Riiight, that one again.
> 
> I understand where this rule comes from, but I have never played it, playing one huge army is always more impressive and imo a little fairer than cherry picking.
> 
> That said, not many people can field 10k of a single army so understandable that this is in there, still, space marines with a tesseract vault seems a bit of a "lets sell some models" stretch


Well that rule has pretty much always been there, GW where just a lot more subtle with it's implementation the first time around.

Also I very doubt we will be seeing those kinds of cherry picking for games of apocalypse. Pick-up apocalypse games aren't something that happens too often so people will always have the opportunity to lay down some ground rules. Not to mention the fact that GW seems once again to not possess the will or the ability to make their game balanced. I predict this version of apocalypse will be houseruled as heavily as the last one, which is how it should be.


----------



## Bubblematrix

Totally agree, we have never let people use just any unit they liked, but as I said - we haven't had to as me and my bro both have apoc sized armies.


----------



## Chaosftw

I like how so many pics are released already..... too bad some of them are not legible...

As for being able to take any super heavy in any list.. I think that's bull crap. It totally goes against army back story, allies table and everything else GW has written. The only pattern it follows is GW wanting immediate sales. I don't approve this.


----------



## Zion

And the rest of the Faeit212 Q&A:



> Q: Can you tell us anything about the nid stuff? I have to admit I'm very curious about our bio-titans.
> A: barbed hierdule, Harridan and hierophant bio-titan are in, they cost less than before i think, titan at least 250 points less.
> 
> Q: Is there a section on scratch-building and custom rules like the old book?
> A: There a few pages with suggestions and stuff like that.
> 
> Q: Anything on the tyranid gargantuan creatures and what there like?
> A: Answered above, the bio-cannon is now the same for all of them, 48", S10, ap3, assault 6.
> 
> Q: what does the great promenade of exquisite excess do?
> A: formation must arrive by deep strike and are allowed to charge that turn. rending on 4+.
> 
> Q: What dose the optimised stealth group, counter strike cadre and skysweep missle defence formations do?
> A: Counterstrike - if shooting at enemey eithin 12" of objective can re-roll to hit. In the first turn vehicles in formation count as fast.
> 
> Stealth: halves the range they need to be close to the enemy when inflitrating and when shooting they have ignores cover.
> 
> Skysweep: gunships within 12" of the command vehicle can shoot any number of missiles per turn. All tau units within 60" of the command vehicle have shrouded against flyers/flying monsters/gargantuans etc
> 
> Q: What does the Tzeentch flaming formation (daemons) do ?
> A: They get to roll on a table with 4 dierrent results, 3-4 for example is inv save improved by 2, last one is a nasty attack.
> 
> Q: What does the new green tide do?
> A: All models need to be on foot, they form 1 big unit, and can use waaaagh each turn, they also roll an extra D6 for charge range and choose highest
> 
> Q: What do the Tyranid Carnifex Crusher Brood and the Endless Swarm formations consist of/grant?
> A: carnifexes can combine bio-plasma attack using the hellstorm template.
> 
> Endless swarm - makes it hard for the enemy to shoot them so they end up shooting snap shots at them most of the time. A single unit can be returned after each break.
> 
> Q: What's the special rules for the death company formation
> A: They get +A deneding on turn number when they charge, so charging on turn 4 will give them +4Attacks each.
> 
> Q: What's the Chaos Daemon Cohort of Blood like?
> A: Instant death on rolls of 6 to wound. All of the formation has +1 S and fleet. you need 8 units of bloodletters 1+ heralds and skulltaker.
> 
> Q: Any campaign rules other than Armageddon. Thanks again!
> A: Only armageddon in the normal book, there's another campaign in the limited edition version.
> 
> Q: Is the Strategic Redeployment asset still around?
> A: No thats gone
> 
> Q: What is the profile of the Vulcan Mega Bolter (Warhound titan)
> A: 60" S6 ap3 Heavy 15
> 
> Q: I am really interested in the 'The War Council of Mandragora'-formation.
> A: It's a bit complicated, there 6 conditions to be met, you roll 3 dice to see which ones you need to achieve, each one that you do grants you a strategic asset but you have to do them in the order rolled. If you complete all 3 you get D3 victory points so it's a nice formation.
> 
> Q: What is the speciality of the Grey Knight formation with 3x Nemesis Dread Knights?
> A: You pick one dreadknight to be the special one, while they're within 12" of that dreadknight the others have shred.
> 
> Q: Do you know the profile of the Tyranid Harridan?
> A: 4/3/10/8/8/3/4/10 3+ save, 2 bio cannons, scything talons


----------



## Zion

From the 40k Apoc blog:



> Via Engrimm on Apocalypse40K and Warseer
> 
> *How to score Strategic Victory points:*
> 
> 6 objectives as before, each player places 1 in his own DZ, 1 in opponents, and one anywhere on the board.
> 
> The book introduces "breaks" these dont happen after each turn but at a pre-determined time. They're as the name says breaks to eat drink etc and to clear up/check vicotry points. At each of these breaks you check who's closest to an objective, whoever is closest is in control (units can only control 1 obj if they close to 2). You get 1 strategic victory point for
> each objective you control at the 1st break, on the 2nd break you get 2 points, 3rd 3 etc. Then 1 last check for objectives at the end of the game. There's no set amount of breaks, but I imagine it'll be something like 2-3 breaks + end game.
> 
> You can also gain bonus points by:
> Destryoying a super-heavy vehicle (1 point)
> Killing a gargantuan creature
> Killing a warmaster (the overall commander)
> Stopping a finest hour (killing the warlord while he's doing the finest hour/sons of the primarch)
> 
> Highest points wins as normal but you can also "spend" these points for:
> Bringing back a single model that has been completely destroyed of not more than 15 hull points.
> And to power up some strategic assets.
> Each player can only do this once.
> 
> *What are the scenarios?*
> 
> There's 6 in the normal part, + 3 more for warzone: Armageddon.
> *Allies*
> All armies on the same side are treated as Allies. Armies from the same codex but commanded by different players are considered battlebrothers. Armies that according to the allies matrix ally are "come the apocalypse" count each other as desperate allies. It doesnt say that you HAVE to use the allies matrix in fact it says "alternatively" for when you cant decide which players are put in which team.
> 
> *FOC and Scoring Units*
> Biggy: No force organization chart, in fact something which I forgot to mention, ALL units are scoring, even HQ everything.
> 
> *What is the book's definition of a "break"?*
> Exactly as it sounds, it's a lunch break etc, in their example there were 2 breaks, so scoring is done 1 startegic victory point per objective 1st break, 2 points for the 2nd break, and 3 points at the end.
> 
> 
> *Apocalypse Fortifications*
> The aquila strongpoint can be armed with macro cannon or vortex missile (it isnt remove everything it touches anymore although still powerful). They cost quite a bit, AV15 all sides. Macro cannon can fire in 2 way, 1st is 2 D shots large blast, 2nd apocalyptic megablast at S10/7/5 Ap1/4/6 (1st number for the 5" at the centre, 5-10" 2nd, 10-15" 3rd). this shot also has a sonic boom rule, which affects flying stuff in the patch of the shell, not going to go into more detail as the mods will kick me out soon
> *Titan Optional Weapons*
> Can you please just confirm if Titans pay extra points for different weapons or as current they swap them out for free.
> For old models like the reaver/phantom titans etc it's still free to choose. Others like the tesseract vault/transcendant c'tan have to pay for their weapons, so maybe newer models will be following this example. The D weapon for the c'tan is hellstorm template, and it isnt the highest points cost ability that he gets, there's 2 that cost more.
> 
> 
> 
> *Imperial Guard*
> 
> *Lord Castellan's Supreme Command. *
> Lord Castellan Creed includes him, Kell, a company command squad and an Imperial bastion. When his unit is in the bastion he can issue orders to units anywhere on the table. The master of ordnance can make D3+1 artillery bombardments instead of 1. The formation is a high command formation, so you receive 1 extra strategic asset normally in the break, in Creed's case though you receive 2 assets.
> *Space Marines*
> 
> *Sons of Grimaldus*
> They all get feel no pain, all sword brethren gain fearless and hatred(orks). When charging any unit from codex Orks they gain furious charge. This formation is from Warzone :Armageddon so that's why it's themed against the orcs.
> *Black Templars*
> Black templars have 2 formations in Warzone armageddon, one's for Land Raider Crusaders and the other for a company style.
> 
> *Thunderhawk*
> Thunderhawk costs 215 points less, but to get the turbo laser it's 90 points. AV is 12 12 10 (-2 from the rear) and Hull points is 9 only (would have been 12 normally). Has power of the machine spirit.
> 
> *What do you get bonus wise for fielding the Space Wolf Formations, ie Great Company and such?*
> 
> *Great Company*: stubborn for all.
> All models in the formation re-roll their charge moves and re-roll to hit rolls on overwatch.
> x1 per game start of assault phase all within 18" of the wolf lord/Ragnar gain furious charge and fleet.
> *Librarius:* 5 Runepristes is the same as 5 Llibarians: They're a psychic choir formation (see the blog post from Loken for more info) and get a choir power. Warp charge 4, 24", S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , Ap1, Heavy 1, large blast, Vortex. Vortex doesnt destroy everything like it used to, it's a normal D weapon but the blast stays on the table and scatters 2D6 each turn, on a double it disappears. In the case of this power though when it dispappears the game will start using the Seismic explosion rules as the vortex buries itself into the plant's surface.
> *Brethren of the Great Wolf*, which contains logan, njal, ulrik, arjac, bjorn and 1 wolf guard pack. It's a high command formation, wolf guard needs to have the banner of the great wolf which within 24" all have Furios charge. Formation has fear and all space wolves on the table have stubborn. Then all characters in the formation can all do the finest hour/sons of primarch buff not just one, but all at the same turn so it's a mega strong unit for that turn.
> *Wolfpack Flanking Force*, wolflord on wolf/canis wolfborn, 2+ thunderwolf units, 5+ fenrisian wolve packs. Acute senses, hit and run, outflank, rage and can charge in the turn they arrive from reserves
> 
> *Chaos*
> 
> *Lords of the Black Crusade,*
> Lord of the Black Crusade is Abaddon and Kharn, Ahriman, Lucius, Typhus or lords with mark of khorne instead of Kharn etc. High Command Formation. They can all use the finest hour/sons of primarch at the same turn.
> The planet killer: once per game you can have Abaddon's flagship start bombarding so from now on you start using the Magma Storm Unnatural Disaster table. You are the master of disaster as long as Abaddon is alive. Basically there's a table you roll on and it affects everybody, but if you're the master of disaster you're the one that begins applying the results. so if you get a result to do D3 blasts and you roll a 3, the master of disaster places the 1st one, then your opponent, then the master, so yoou have that advantage when you roll an odd number.
> 
> *The Lost and The Damned*
> Lost and the Damned: 1 Dark Apostle, 6+ chaos cultist units. Gain inflitrate. After each break you can return a single unit of cultists. All cultists in the formation have feel no pain and furious charge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Legionnaire Warband*
> Legionnaire Warband: When in close combat with any loyal space marine they re-roll to hit every round of combat. And if they're within 12" of loyal space marines they get fearless. That's the only rule.
> 
> 
> *Eldar*
> 
> *Eldar Titan Holo-Fields*
> Before rolling for damage (including the destroyer table, so yes they work vs D weapons) you roll a D6 per hit so see if it hits the titan or the holo-field image. If it moved it hits on 4+, if it didnt hits on 3+. Same thing for he revenant. Phantom is pages 146-147, revenant 148-149 if you want to update the list
> *Dark Eldar*
> 
> Dark Eldar formations are incredibly great in my opinion. There's 5 of them. I'll detail two of them:
> *Ravager Titan Hunters*: Armoured spearhead formation. Any ravager within 6" of the command vehicle (including the command vehicle) gets shrouded. The command vehicle has a shadow ray weapon in addition to the normal stuff. You shoot it before you shoot the rest of the dark lances. If it hits then any subsequesnt hits by any ravager in the formation will ignore the effect of Void shield, power fields AND eldar titan holo-fields. Range for the shadow ray is 36".
> *Dark Olympiad*. 1 succubus or lelith, 0+ hekatrix bloodbrides, 2+ wyches units, 1+ hellions, 0+ beastmasters, 1+ reavers. The beastmasters and the beast gain the efffects of combat drugs. With this formation you roll twice on the combat drugs table and apply BOTH. if you have duke sliscus you roll 3 dice and choose 2. Whenever anything from this formation gets a pain token you can give a free extra pain token to anything within 24".
> *Necrons*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tesseract vault chooses 2 powers (weapons) from 6. if you deploy the transcendent C'tan on it's own (which counts as a gargantuan creature) you choose 1 power from 3, and 2 weapon powers from 6 again. C'tan outside of vault costs more than being inside. So buying the tesseract vault to field it as the Obelisk and tanscendent c'tan is quite a bargain in my opinion as you'ed be going very close to 1k points with just 1 purchase.
> *Tau*
> 
> Tigershark isnt in the book, as you said it's just been updated in IA3-2nd so there's no units in the book other than formations for Tau.
> The riptide wing contains 3+ riptides. Any riptide that shoots on a unit that another riptide has already shot at gets +1BS. Each Riptide within 6" of another riptide can re-roll Nova reactor tests
> 
> *Tyranids*
> *Hierophant:* is 250 points cheaper. Bio-cannon is assault 6, and he also has a 6+ inv save.
> 
> *Vanguard infestation*: 3+ genestealer broods, 3+ lictors (can be deathleaper). On the turn they arrive from reserve all enemy units within 36" use their lowest LD. All unit are deployed like the lictor's Chameleonic skin, even the genestealers
> *Living Fortress*: 2 Hive Tyrants (can be Swarmlord), 3 tyrant guard, 3 hive guard. Feel no pain for all. Any tyranids within synapse range of a hive tyrant from this formation has the preferred enemy and counter attack rules.
> If they're attacked by a shooting attack they can form a Fortress of Chitin. They get shrouded and add +! to there armour saves but the formation moves as if in difficult terrain next turn. Btw this is a High Command formation, so extra asset


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## MidnightSun

So Blood Angels suddenly have Mephiston turn into a FMC for a turn, Lysander makes his Terminator Titanhammer T5 and becomes T6 himself, Word Bearers can just steal a Green Tide or Emperor's Fist Tank Company for a turn, and Dark Angels... get rerolls to hit, on their basic small arms, that they either had already or don't get to access? Basic Bolters, if you care about them being twin linked, will have Divination, Ravenwing are already Twin Linked, and Terminators get no bonus. RAW, of course, every single PA model gets twin-linked because they're technically all armed with Bolt Pistols but Hail of Fire only specifies 'their weapons become Twin-Linked', not just their bolt weapons, but this still sucks. 

Not that there's too much to complain about - Night Lords get Fear, and some shitty leadership rerolls, Alpha Legion get IWND on... their HQ choices, Obliterators and Spawn? And Death Guard get Feel No Pain and Fearless on all of their Plague Marines! As well as of course the Librarius pooping out a Str D AP1 Large Blast every turn with rerolls to hit and wound allocated as per barrage, so I'm fucking pleased about that I can tell you - Marines are FINALLY balanced in the super-heavy stakes without having to buy or sculpt or transport a bigass Thunderhawk with the new monopoly on Vortex.

Overall, I think Finest Hour is pretty cool, even if some of them would only be 'good' on the basic Warlord charts, let alone the epic nature of Finest Hour. The Dark Angel, Night Lord and World Eater ones could probably be put into the Warlord Tables for those who don't mind using homebrew (although I'd probably shorten the range; in the case of Dark Angels, make it a 12" bubble).

Midnight


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## Zion

MidnightSun said:


> So Blood Angels suddenly have Mephiston turn into a FMC for a turn, Lysander makes his Terminator Titanhammer T5 and becomes T6 himself, Word Bearers can just steal a Green Tide or Emperor's Fist Tank Company for a turn, and Dark Angels... get rerolls to hit, on their basic small arms, that they either had already or don't get to access? Basic Bolters, if you care about them being twin linked, will have Divination, Ravenwing are already Twin Linked, and Terminators get no bonus. RAW, of course, every single PA model gets twin-linked because they're technically all armed with Bolt Pistols but Hail of Fire only specifies 'their weapons become Twin-Linked', not just their bolt weapons, but this still sucks.
> 
> Not that there's too much to complain about - Night Lords get Fear, and some shitty leadership rerolls, Alpha Legion get IWND on... their HQ choices, Obliterators and Spawn? And Death Guard get Feel No Pain and Fearless on all of their Plague Marines! As well as of course the Librarius pooping out a Str D AP1 Large Blast every turn with rerolls to hit and wound allocated as per barrage, so I'm fucking pleased about that I can tell you - Marines are FINALLY balanced in the super-heavy stakes without having to buy or sculpt or transport a bigass Thunderhawk with the new monopoly on Vortex.
> 
> Overall, I think Finest Hour is pretty cool, even if some of them would only be 'good' on the basic Warlord charts, let alone the epic nature of Finest Hour. The Dark Angel, Night Lord and World Eater ones could probably be put into the Warlord Tables for those who don't mind using homebrew (although I'd probably shorten the range; in the case of Dark Angels, make it a 12" bubble).
> 
> Midnight


Don't forget that Finest Hour only lasts like a turn.


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## MidnightSun

Zion said:


> Don't forget that Finest Hour only lasts like a turn.


Which is fine for something like the Dark Angel one, or the Space Wolf one, but it gives some a distinct advantage (and makes some, like the Night Lords even worse, Fear is crap but for only one turn? And the Alpha Legion one - IWND is only scary on tanks over time - a ine-time only roll to see if an Oblit or Spawn or Daemon Prince gets a wound back is negligible).

TBH, I think the DA one is one of the best - if you're playing at 3000pts it's pretty crap, but at 25,000 it's really really good. Linear warriors, quadratic wizards - buffing the army is jist better than being a tank yourself, as most of these traits are based around. At low points, stuff like the Imperial Fist and Space Wolf traits get better and at high points values they become worthless. Assets are pretty much the same - at 3000pts, Orbital Strike is pretty much autopick. At 25000? Why wouldn't you take something like Corrupt and Despoil or Ere We Go Ladz?

As an aside, I am REALLY liking the new racial assets. Corrupt and Despoil is so, so awesome.


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## Zion

Well we're moving from rumor to fact now with today being Apoc's release, so I'm locking this thread. Discussion about Apoc is open in the 40 General chat.

EDIT: I'm leaving the thread up for one week from this post then moving it to Rumor Round-up. This is to give people who don't have the book a chance to peruse things some more before it gets moved.


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