# Another "help me pick an army" Thread



## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

So as of yet my gaming group is focused solely on 40k and I am too, but recently I've been interested by warhammer with the new edition, models, balance, etc. I'm taking a look through the rulebook and trying to get a hang of the rules but as of now I'm mainly interested in the models of each army. When I know the rules better however, I want to be able to field a diverse and competitive army with my friends. Each of the following armies I've become interested in primarily due to their models but I need advice on how they rate in the following categories...
- Diversity and competitiveness (being able to field multiple viable builds)
- Plastic models (how much of the codex is found in plastic)
- Expense
- Playstyle

The armies I've become interested in are Skaven, High Elves, Dark Elves, and Warriors of Chaos. I'm not really partial to any playstyle but an army that can be balanced in all areas would be good.

I'm also curious as to the release schedule of upcoming warhammer codices. Any rumors or news as to what the release dates of warhammer codices are in the future?


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Sasha Nein said:


> - Diversity and competitiveness (being able to field multiple viable builds)


Dark Elves and Skaven are the most (in comparison) versatile ones on that list in this regard, and all of them are competitive enough to win tourneys. Skaven and High Elves are the most powerful, but WoC and Dark Elves played well can be just as nasty.


> - Plastic models (how much of the codex is found in plastic)


Dark Elves have infantry and some special as plastic, and with great plastic kits too. However, a good deal of the range is still metal. Fortunately, the sculpts are fantastic.

Skaven have the Island of Blood and a good deal of plastic kits, such as the new ones coming out. I'm not sure, but I don't think all the options you'll want will be out yet though.

High Elves as well, have the Island of Blood, and some new plastic kits for the specials. You'll be able to build an all-plastic army quite easily if you want.

Warriors of Chaos have the most important stuff in plastic, but also have some stuff in metal. Fortunately, conversions are quite easy using other kits, for stuff like Ogres, or other things. Be prepared to field a mostly Warrior force if you want plastic though.


> - Expense


Dark Elves are a bit tough on the penny, but not as much as a horde army like Skaven. Skaven will require a lot of models, though you can use the Island of Blood to fill out your Clanrats quickly.

High Elves and Warriors of Chaos should be pretty cheap, as they both utilize fewer models than other armies.


> - Playstyle


Dark Elves are a glass-cannon, they break easily, but with a little finesse, they can produce overwhelming combat results. High Elves are a more defensive force, using their ASF, and solid magic to dominate, though they are just as fragile as Dark Elves, magic can fix this somewhat.

Skaven are a wild, unpredictable force, and very versatile as well. Don't expect your troops to do much without numbers though. Warriors of Chaos are a melee powerhouse in essence, with almost no shooting (Hellcannon only), and good magic. Expect to be hitting your enemy with a very big stick.



> The armies I've become interested in are Skaven, High Elves, Dark Elves, and Warriors of Chaos. I'm not really partial to any playstyle but an army that can be balanced in all areas would be good.


The most balanced ones are Skaven and Dark Elves, High Elves to a lesser extent, because their shooting isn't quite as impressive. Take a look through my descriptions to decide though.



> I'm also curious as to the release schedule of upcoming warhammer codices. Any rumors or news as to what the release dates of warhammer codices are in the future?


Tomb Kings and Ogre Kingdoms are very heavily rumored. Orcs and Goblins, Bretonnia and Wood Elves are also likely candidates.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Well if you want lots of plastic models you can swap around and do a bit of everything with i would look into one of these army's.

-Skaven (My Main army...we can do everything...Some times it even works!)
-Vampire Counts (All Plastic army almost! and lots of different units\roles!)
-High Elfs...Beleave it or not the bastards are tough and lots of plastic!

But ya go into a local store and watch some games or maybe try out the armys a bit to see which one you like.

Also as a ex-Dark elf player i would say dont play them unless you want to Lug around a ton of metal models.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

All the armies in Fantasy are fairly evenly balanced from a competitive standpoint, I think, in comparison to one another. Part of that is the different nature of the game from 40k-- if you don't maneuver well, and just aren't good at the game, a good list isn't going to help you at all. In 40k, however, a good list sort of plays itself. Similarly, you can win with pretty much whatever models you like in Fantasy-- you don't need any sort of optimized build (in fact, the more you try to powergame it, the harder it seems to actually be to play.)

Dark Elves and High Elves (factoring in special units and whatnot and not assuming you just build straight from what's in the Battalion boxes) have a fairly average monetary cost to them-- a 2000 point army will run in the $250-$275 range. Skaven are one of the most expensive armies to play, and even with the Island of Blood and Skaven Battalion (whose contents you'll use in their entirety almost no matter what you're doing with Skaven), a 2000-point army can run upwards of $400. 

I play Warriors of Chaos. A 2000-point Warriors army can actually be among the cheapest out there, and it can easily be all plastic. Average 2000-point armies can be built out of two Battalion boxes and a couple blisters for heroes-- around $200 tops. While the army lacks in a couple serious places-- namely, model count and a complete and utter lack of a useful shooting phase unit-- it's made up for in spades by being hands-down the hardest army in close combat without doing anything tricksy. A Chaos Warrior is the final word in axe murder-- for other armies to put comparable hurt on, they need to buff their elite units with magic.


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## Flindo (Oct 30, 2010)

as far as balance goes it is fairly balanced among every race.

like most people say, I suggest you pick a race that spells out "you" all over it, I pick my races souly for fun to play, fun to look at, fun to paint and have a good fluff, I suggest reading the army books to see what one you like before diving in.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Sasha Nein said:


> - Diversity and competitiveness (being able to field multiple viable builds)
> all of them are good with Skaven, High Elves a bit better
> 
> - Plastic models (how much of the codex is found in plastic)
> ...


in the end any of these 4 would be a good starter army its more what you like the looks of really.


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

Thanks everyone! As of now I've narrowed my original four choices down to High Elves and Warriors of Chaos. The reason these four first caught my attention were their models (which I thoroughly browsed through on the GW website) so don't worry about me not picking an army I enjoy on the table. I think I'll look through the codices soon and see what units I like and what kind of list I would like to run. 

I also really like using special characters as I find them fun and fluffy (sometimes very strong too) and I was wondering how they fare for these two armies. For WoC I really like Valkia and of course Archaon as they are both just awesome looking and would make great centerpieces for an army. For HE, I also really like Korhil and Alith as far as looks go and of course I've heard Teclis wipes entire armies off the field. How do these and the other special characters fare?


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Both High Elves and Warriors of Chaos have good and bad special characters, l really love Thorg and going in with a Troll army 

as a warning some of the High Elves special characters are way over powered *cough* Teclis *cough* and if you use them people may turn... lets say more hostile towards you unish:.


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## Flindo (Oct 30, 2010)

sybarite said:


> Both High Elves and Warriors of Chaos have good and bad special characters, l really love Thorg and going in with a Troll army
> 
> as a warning some of the High Elves special characters are way over powered *cough* Teclis *cough* and if you use them people may turn... lets say more hostile towards you unish:.






troll armies always remind me of this song lol.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Just a note, in conjunction with the last few posts, there probably will be lots of High Elf players. Just saying.

And this totally is not because High Elves are total douchequeers with weird helmets, totally!


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

Very true, I understand that there will be more HE players because of IoB. I'll be going to the FLGS to check out some other warhammer players and see what the local players play as well. It's something I will definitely keep into consideration when I choose my army and because of that I may end up with DE as well. A lot of their units are certainly very cool including the awesome looking hydra.


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

So I don't think I'll be going with HE due to the over abundance of players due to IoB. Skaven are still a really interesting army but the cost is rather prohibitive still. Another army came up however, and that's DoC. I love the new models like the bloodletters and they don't appear to be too expensive. Some of the models I don't care for I can always kitbash and to make some cool standins and such too. The other army I'm still more interested in from the original four is DE but the amount of metal is kind of annoying.

So how do DoC fare as far as competitiveness and model count? Also, I love the idea of being able to play them for 40k too, but if I do this then should I put them on square or circle bases? Especially if I play them mainly for fantasy.


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## Flindo (Oct 30, 2010)

Sasha Nein said:


> So I don't think I'll be going with HE due to the over abundance of players due to IoB. Skaven are still a really interesting army but the cost is rather prohibitive still. Another army came up however, and that's DoC. I love the new models like the bloodletters and they don't appear to be too expensive. Some of the models I don't care for I can always kitbash and to make some cool standins and such too. The other army I'm still more interested in from the original four is DE but the amount of metal is kind of annoying.
> 
> So how do DoC fare as far as competitiveness and model count? Also, I love the idea of being able to play them for 40k too, but if I do this then should I put them on square or circle bases? Especially if I play them mainly for fantasy.


I fought a darkelf player during the torny last month, they are tough as hell, they would probably be a great buy! 

as far as DOC go I never played against them, but if you are gunna use them for both games, you have to magnetize them to switch bases.


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

Seems as if everyone and their mom is starting a lizard army.
Just fyi since your concerned about bandwagon


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Pick something that will be fun to play and force you to learn. HE and DE are harder to learn to play. WoC and Skaven are easier to learn to play. 

If you want an army that is flexible and can be adjusted to match up specific armies in a gaming or campaign group, then dark elves are the best choice in my experience. Out of twelve players in my group (including some very highly regarded tourney players) my DE army has produced the most points in an extended mighty empires campaign. Dark Elves have the most balance and options but are not the cheapest army to build because I find I need about 4000 points of models to choose from to play 2500 to 2750 point battles (which are the standard size in tournies and in groups in our area). DE also has the advantage of having all of the phases and play styles available. The only thing the army lacks is tougher infantry, which it makes up for with that weakness with underpriced hydras, the high armour save of cold one knight, and an almost unkillable dreadlord. Once at 2500 to 2750, the ability to run a top lvl 4 caster and an unkillable dreadlord makes DE armies pretty hard to beat, but, if your group is playing at 2000 points or 2250, DE armies will struggle to stay near the top in competitiveness. 

Skaven has a lot of flexibility and also is extremely competitive in 8th edition. It is also one of the most scalable armies in terms of being able to play top tier builds from 1000 points through 3000 points consistently,. With a grey seer as a caster and war machines, you will learn every phase of the game quite well. But the basic ideas of a good skaven army of running large blocks of congo line slaves and clan rat units within range of a good general and BSB with a hellpit abom on the flanks and war machines is kind of predictable. The war machines can be hit or miss but devastating when they hit, and the troops can panic and flee too often and then will often be unable to rally more than I would prefer. Also, buying and painting 200+ infantry models can be a bit much and the special and rare single model units most worth playing have a lot of detail and take time to assemble and paint creatively (hellpits, doomwheels and warplightning cannons). Some would argue that Skaven is the best army right now in the Indy GT environment and you will consistently see Skaven armies place but they also can be somewhat random. 

WoC has good magic offense (if you choose it) and defense but very limited shooting. The existence of elite models and prevalence of plastic or ability to use plastic models from other armies (like platic ogres from OK and plastic trolls from Orcs and Goblins) can make it cheaper to build a competitive army, but you'll still need some flexibility to avoid getting stale with one army. To be competitive you really need sorcerors on foot, mounted and on disc as options and the same for a lord and an exalted hero. You'll want to convert one or two chariots or something else into a warshrine or two. You can play elite warriors and skip marauder infantry. Our area frowns on special characters, but WoC have some of the best and can be extremely competitive with special characters; festus, archaon, and throgg being the three most commonly employed because of their special rules and buffs to units. WoC, without special characters, is very competitive in 8th edition (above average in tournies in win-loss percetanges) and can win against any army in WHFB with some skill and luck but will generally not win or place at the top in highly competitive tourneys as reliably as Skaven and Lizardmen, followed by Daemons and Dark Elves. 

High elves are probably the cheapest army to build right now with the high points cost per model limiting the number of models and the existence of new plastic models and the Island of Blood set allowing one to swap or buy even cheaper some key models and units. The lords, heroes and mages can all be converted from plastic models. In 8th edition, HE tends to play in pretty standard and predictable ways but they cover all of the phases of the game, good shooting, excellent magic offence and defense, and fast and hard hitting troops (that unfortunately are often too few in numbers due to points cost per model and lack toughness unless buffed by magic and protected). Also, unless one wants to run a lord on a dragon (effective in 7th but not so much in 8th), you really lack anything that is a monster. If the Book of Hoeth is allowed or the special lord characters are allowed, then HE armies go near the top in ranking, but the Book is banned in our area and the maxed out special characters are not allowed.


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