# Sisters Revamp Part 1; review with me.



## Churlton (Nov 23, 2007)

So, GW have released the White Dwarf "patch" for the Adeptus Sororitas;

As a long-time SoB player; having only recently "diluted out" the Nuns with Inquisitors and assassins, I think I have been hit by a double whammy!

Now it is (partially) out of the realms of rumour ..... let me have your review/ opinions or further guesses for part two (costs and detail outfits).

For me, I see an overhaul to specialist build and a juxta position to the Grey Knights.

The biggest appearance change will be the lack of Inquisitors (now firmly in GK territory) is there no Ordo Hereticus anymore? (I have not read GK codex for the back story).
Now when I saw Lord Karazimov appear in the GK; I thought it may be a double appearance (I did like him with my Sisters). 
However, no mention in part one of any Inquisition choice.

Not an upsetting point, and also one that I personally am not opposed to .... as we now get the re-emergence of the Ecclesiarchy....
The "Frothing Loons", orating and berating from behind a boltgun (and a few Power Armoured Martial Experts).

OK, I did miss them in the last instal (my Cardinal ended up as an Objective Marker), Jacob went walkies, and the priests were resigned to a Repentia Squad as armour ablation in order to open the Arcos (or whatever).

With this, I would have hoped for the return of the Frateris Militiaas a cheap hoard option ... but I din't notice them.

The new style of Faith Points is interesting me; variable amount and assigned effect to unit type .... I think I can use that ...

Ooops, at work and work has arrived; so I will break for a bit.

Just a thread start and I will be back to continue .. there is still much to consider from the release.

Please add your views.


----------



## Churlton (Nov 23, 2007)

Faith Points:
We have a similar choice and effect from before, but now they are specifically assigned to unit types e.g. the Retributors get the Divine Guidence type, but the Battle Sisters get a nifty (IMHO) "Relentless" effect one (multimeltas close up, anyone?!).
PS: it looks like the Retributor "drive-by BBQ" is back on, with HFlamer option is pictured alongside the Unit description!

I think the other choices (if anyone would like to take one to explain .. be my guest) are suitable for the respective units apart from the Seraphim could have deserved an addition of "hand of the Emperor" as well (now +1 S). They have a shooting Faith, but need a combat one also.
These can be supplemented apparently, if you tag an IP with an appropriate Faith option. That is, if I read correctly.

Just before another break; St Celestine is pretty much untouched but a good tweak of 4+ wounding, and HFlamer profile ... but ... No Hit&Run is stated ???????????????? The H&R added last FAQ did help tremendously for Her.

TTFN


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

It wouldn't be a bad idea just to structure this review a little more. At the moment it's just a list of your thoughts, in no particular order, on half a Codex.

On 3++ is the New Black, all of the reviews are split up - HQ, Elites, Troops, Fast Attack, Heavy Support, and a summary or conclusion.

Some of the sentences on here are a bit difficult to read - 'I think the other choices (if anyone would like to take one to explain .. be my guest) are suitable for the respective units apart from the Seraphim could have deserved an addition of "hand of the Emperor" as well (now +1 S). They have a shooting Faith, but need a combat one also.'

What are the 'other choices'? Why are they suitable for the units that can use them? Why do Seraphim need a combat Faith power? Is combat power lacking in the list?

I'd wait until the full Codex is released, and then write a structured, well-presented review and post it in sections. That way it would be much more helpful. As I said, 3++ has some great reviews; check those out. 

I'm sure loads of people here would be more than happy to see a high-quality review of the new Sisters of Battle (Something that's not on the web yet, as far as I can tell)

Midnight


----------



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Gw and their damn mini dex, here I was going to start SoB just to confuse my enemies and they do this mini dex and don't release the all important plastic troops kit.


----------



## Sworn Radical (Mar 10, 2011)

This is only the the first part of two, I'll give them that but ... the complete lack of Frateris Militia / Zealot troop choices really does it for me. If the second part of this _'codex'_ will be equally disappointing I'll be ditching my 40k stuff in favor of Warhammer Fantasy really.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Sworn Radical said:


> This is only the the first part of two, I'll give them that but ... the complete lack of Frateris Militia / Zealot troop choices really does it for me. If the second part of this _'codex'_ will be equally disappointing I'll be ditching my 40k stuff in favor of Warhammer Fantasy really.


There won't be any units added that don't already have models for them. It's not a viable sales option. A new proper Codex with model releases will see new options and models. As it stands, there aren't enough pure Sisters options to fill a full Codex, and putting new(ish) things in like Frateris Militia without a model release will hurt sales later in the day, like it has for the Tervigon. 

I have every confidence we'll see a real Codex. We just have to be patient. Think of how the poor DE players felt, and how the Necron players still feel. The problems they cite with making the plastics is actually very real, and as these girls as Jez's babies, I can't see him letting them get released until he's happy the issues are fixed. He was the same with the DE.


----------



## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

What i have been told and i seem to be repeating myself and noone seems to lesten here.

These two GW articles are basically test runs to see the reaction of the punters. Evenually (January or February) we will see a brand new Sisters Codex with a brand new army with an all new sculpted plastic army.


----------



## Amoeba Bait (May 31, 2010)

I just dont understand why GW would remove the 'Dex from the market, in order to bring it back in WD form. Sure it make the Sisters _look_ new, but all this is doing is letting you use your dusty old Sisters again.


----------



## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

There was not a real reply here,someone got on here while I was talking to my boss and said something innappropriate


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

You know what would really blow.... if they released all the SoB troops as finecast. That would be one reason for bringing back rules for old metal models.


----------



## Sworn Radical (Mar 10, 2011)

SilverTabby said:


> There won't be any units added that don't already have models for them.



Actually, there have been metal Frateris Militia models in the past - although they've been rather shitty. 

Personally, I'm using converted Mordheim and WHFB witch hunter miniatures as well as a couple 40k priests and former inquisitorial henchmen. They make for a rather nice squad of militia / zealots. I also included one miniature from the current range of plastic empire zealots IIRC.

But yeah, at first glance GW isn't selling any _'suitable'_ models atm.

I'm with you here though, Jes was heavily involved with the whole Sisters 'revamp', and maybe, just maybe, if and when our faith in the Emperor will be overwhelmingly strong will we see a real codex for the Sisters in time. Maybe 2013 .... that'd be exactly ten years after Witchhunters I believe.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Achaylus72 said:


> What i have been told and i seem to be repeating myself and noone seems to lesten here.
> 
> These two GW articles are basically test runs to see the reaction of the punters. Evenually (January or February) we will see a brand new Sisters Codex with a brand new army with an all new sculpted plastic army.


If they are to see the "reactions of the punters", then the Codex won't be a january/february release because it's already too late for the reactions to have any impact on the finished product whatsoever. 

Here's a brief rundown on timelines involved. 
1) White Dwarf is written three months before it hits the shelves. So for a february release, the White Dwarf covering the release would be written in november. 
2) The colour section is always the last thing to get completed before a Codex goes to Repro. This is delivered at least a month before the product does the rounds at the printers. Each army's project is a three month schedule, meaning they are started at least 4 months before the the release White Dwarf is written (in an ideal world they work 6 months ahead of WD). So, in order for a february release, 'Eavy Metal would have had the figures to paint at the latest in july, and would be well on the way to finishing them by now. 
3) The sculpting schedule runs a good year or so prior to all of this (especially the plastics one), the writing schedule even further ahead to test the viability of any added new units that the sculptors would have to produce, and any new units and figures would have been decided on at the begining of this period...

So you see, if this is indeed testing the waters before they do anything, then any Codex is over 2 years away, provided _any_ work has begun on it yet. 

On the other hand, if this is just bringing the Sisters rules and points in line with the current edition whilst Jez fixes the problems inherant with models with multiple poses and hanging cloth sleeves and skirts (as he has stated publically on several occasions), and nothing at all to do with testing the waters, then we might just see a 2012 release of a full Codex :wink:



Sworn Radical said:


> Actually, there have been metal Frateris Militia models in the past - although they've been rather shitty.


True. There have also been Frateris models sculpted about ten years back that were never released. However, none are officially available to buy, and cutting new moulds for them in finecast for a WD release would not make back their costs...


----------



## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

This is simply fulfilling the promise that all codexes would be updated to current standards before 6th edition is published. I am confident Sisters was always planned for a full codex in 6th, and this is simply a "get you by" and a removal of WH codex for that reason. Calm. And I don't see it as a bad codex. The wargear will tell us what the situation is.


----------



## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Ah. I might have been living under a rock, didn't know this had finally happened.

Good. Now we can get to the real show. (Refer to my sig.)


----------



## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

SilverTabby said:


> If they are to see the "reactions of the punters", then the Codex won't be a january/february release because it's already too late for the reactions to have any impact on the finished product whatsoever.
> 
> Here's a brief rundown on timelines involved.
> 1) White Dwarf is written three months before it hits the shelves. So for a february release, the White Dwarf covering the release would be written in november.
> ...


Thanks for the information, i have flicked through the WD Sisters article and i liked what i saw, i'd say it looks like this and the next installment is a stop gap before a full codex release sometime next year.


----------



## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

I don't know...... 

At the moment I am a bit disappointed because the Acts of Faith aren't game changers anymore and that is what I liked about a Sisters army. They seem diluted somehow. I am hoping there is more in the 'beastiary' in the next installment as right now they really aren't spoiling us with choices. Hopefully I will still be able to make use of all of my assassins, Inquisitors, and Henchmen that I dutifully collected. 

I will reserve my final judgement until the second part for the 'codex' comes out, but as it stands I feel a bit let down.


----------



## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Assassins, Inquisitors, and Henchmen are gone, I'm afraid Midge. If you want to use them, Collect Grey Knights. They found a home over there just fine.


----------



## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

Creon said:


> Assassins, Inquisitors, and Henchmen are gone, I'm afraid Midge. If you want to use them, Collect Grey Knights. They found a home over there just fine.


Well that is a bloody load of shit........ I don't really have the time, inclination, or money to start another army....... I gues I will just have to make them show pieces with a cool diorama or something. I guess my poor SoB are going to be taking a nice long nap in a box somewhere until some fuckwad decides to do something decent with them in the future.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Creon said:


> This is simply fulfilling the promise that all codexes would be updated to current standards before 6th edition is published. I am confident Sisters was always planned for a full codex in 6th, and this is simply a "get you by" and a removal of WH codex for that reason. Calm. And I don't see it as a bad codex. The wargear will tell us what the situation is.


This is something I've been curious about for a while now:

Where and when was this promise (the all-dexes-to-5th-Ed-before-6th one) made, and by whom? Is it officially recorded anywhere?

Or is it like with Codex: Inquisition, where one Games Developer at a Games Day UK ten years ago says "That's a book I'd love to write", and within a year it's gospel that the book was going to be written and that GW were lying bastards and promise-breakers when it failed to appear...?


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Midge913 said:


> Well that is a bloody load of shit........ I don't really have the time, inclination, or money to start another army....... I gues I will just have to make them show pieces with a cool diorama or something. I guess my poor SoB are going to be taking a nice long nap in a box somewhere until some fuckwad decides to do something decent with them in the future.


I'd take a look at the GK Codex before you shelve them... By taking one character (who you can use one of your inquisitor models to represent), you can field an Inquisition army without using a single GK model. And as I believe one of the options for henchmen is to take powered armour, you can even use Sisters models too. More expensive points-wise than a pure SoB force, but means your Inquisition models are still viable as a (smaller than before) army. 

Borrow the book from a friend and have a read, it may inspire you. Just don't bind yourself with "this model is a SoB / whatever, therefore it must only use that statline"...


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Ive spo far read over the new dex to sate the masses and Im not that dissappointed about really. I feel that the army can still be quite competetive, my only issue is why celestians and seraphims only have I 3. Why is Sheild of the Emp. 6+ and not 5+. Those don't make too much sense to me but then again I guess they have their reasoninig.


----------



## Churlton (Nov 23, 2007)

Sworn Radical said:


> Actually, there have been metal Frateris Militia models in the past - although they've been rather shitty.
> 
> Personally, I'm using converted Mordheim and WHFB witch hunter miniatures as well as a couple 40k priests and former inquisitorial henchmen. They make for a rather nice squad of militia / zealots. I also included one miniature from the current range of plastic empire zealots IIRC.
> 
> But yeah, at first glance GW isn't selling any _'suitable'_ models atm.


I did use the Necromunda Redemptionists for Frateris (with the accumulated flamers (20 models = wound on a 3+ (or something like that .... too long ago)

And used Mordheim "Nuns" for special Characters.

But, yes I remember the Frateris figures ... not inspiring.


----------



## Churlton (Nov 23, 2007)

I apologise to Midnight; "Review" is the wrong description to apply to my attempt of generating chat about something that I have been looking forward to seeing for a long while.

His direction of structuring a review is correct, and any attempt at any treatise does fail with only half of the information available at the moment. Some severe playtesting with the complete mini-dex will be needed and a full dissection of various impacts need presenting.
I will keep this version to a "chat" then 9UNTIL LATER,

Many points raised so far focus on the possibility of new models .... I agree that we are not likely to see anything new (until a full codex) and the list given so far seems to reflect this.

Canoness (Palatine has gone)
Stubborn, AoF: The passion (+1 I and Preferred enemy).

Command Squad (Dialogus & Hospitaller are re-introduced:Laud hailer(?LD10 for army (as a Bannr/vox) + FNP?)
Celestians are the mainstay, AoF:Endless crusade (Relentless and Move through cover).? heavy weapons available.

Battle Sisters (? the load-out options). AoF: Light of the Emperor (very good all round options for use in the:Movement, Shooting or Assault phases with re-group or re-rolls) I like the range of use of this one ........ with multiple chances of firing off an AoF each turn ... the humble battle squad is back in the running. I hope we still keep upto 20 SoB per squad.

Celestian Squads look like true veterans (fluff-wise) AoF: Hand of the Emperor (+1 strength (? no Initiative penalty this time) and Fearless. This all depend on what load-out choices that we get, this time). ? power weapons as and option ..perhaps along the lines of sternguard... ?????????????

Dominion Squads ......... SCOUTS! (in an Immolator?????????), plus AoF: Holy Fusillade (I really love the name :gimmefive Twin-linked (fantastic, as I used to call my meltas; "missy-guns2 rather than "hissy-guns!).

Seraphim.. Hit and Run (ok), AoF: The Emperors Deliverence (Shooting: re-roll to wound) Angelic visage is still there, but replaces the Imagifer effect; allowing re-roll for AoF. I think the interesting bit is; Serahim pistols..... Shoot twice, (but restrictions that will need further explanation ..why not just make them like the Blood Angels Angelus boltgun?)

Retributor Squads .......... all I have to say is..... Heavy Flamers are pictured!!!!!.
Ok, AoF: Divine Guidence (now rending) (5 + 6 + 3 = 14 HBolters here we come!!!).

Sorry, I am going to have to break off now (hopefully it will post this time ...)

Priests, Ecclesiarchy Battle conclaves (Henchmen), Repentia, Penitent Engines and Vehicles are still to do.

I have only just scratched the surface of opinion here ... over to you, now :biggrin:


----------



## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

And I'm just checking a rule I found a little confusing:
Acts of Faith require a faith point for each different act used but each act affects every model in the squad with the Act of Faith rule regardless of whether they have and individual act of faith. (e.g. Cannoness in celestians squad, 1 faith point to use The passion and all models in the squad get +1 init, spend 1 more point and aditionally all models get +1 Str, if they pass the tests of course)

Otherwise why would models like preachers who don't have their own Acts of Faith have the rule?


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

I would guess that you will see a finecast Sisters of Battle combat squad of 5 retailing for about $40. Maybe even a Seraph squad also.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Samules said:


> And I'm just checking a rule I found a little confusing:
> Acts of Faith require a faith point for each different act used but each act affects every model in the squad with the Act of Faith rule regardless of whether they have and individual act of faith. (e.g. Cannoness in celestians squad, 1 faith point to use The passion and all models in the squad get +1 init, spend 1 more point and aditionally all models get +1 Str, if they pass the tests of course)
> 
> Otherwise why would models like preachers who don't have their own Acts of Faith have the rule?


Pretty much. One person in a squad uses an AoF, everyone with the generic AoF rule benefits.


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

It makes sense if an IC attached to asqaud bestows their benifits upon the unit, now do the acts stack up if say the Cannoness burns a point and then the sqaud burns a point or is that the IC attached not makes you choose one or the other.

Anyway I can't pass a Judgement until I see the other half of the dex.


----------



## Sworn Radical (Mar 10, 2011)

TheSpore said:


> It makes sense if an IC attached to asqaud bestows their benifits upon the unit, now do the acts stack up if say the Cannoness burns a point and then the sqaud burns a point or is that the IC attached not makes you choose one or the other.
> 
> Anyway I can't pass a Judgement until I see the other half of the dex.



Acts of Faith from an independent characters and a unit they've joined actually do _'stack'_. Which means both the character as well as the unit in question would benefit from both acts effects if successfully prayed for.


----------



## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

Ok, thanks just checking.


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Sworn Radical said:


> Acts of Faith from an independent characters and a unit they've joined actually do _'stack'_. Which means both the character as well as the unit in question would benefit from both acts effects if successfully prayed for.


Well that can give a pretty good competetive edge to em. I just don't the 6+ invulv. save. Maybe I somewhta spoiled here because all my daemons have 5+ but I really ca't recall any army that gets a 6+ for an invulv. I will agree to that it seems that they put some thought into this dex, but why are all the sisters units stats the same across the board. Celests are vets and seraphims are designed to be assault troops so why do they have an I of 3.


----------



## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

TheSpore said:


> Well that can give a pretty good competative edge to em. I just don't the 6+ invul. save. Maybe I somewhat spoiled here because all my daemons have 5+ but I really can't recall any army that gets a 6+ for an invulv. I will agree to that it seems that they put some thought into this dex, but why are all the sisters units stats the same across the board. Celests are vets and seraphims are designed to be assault troops so why do they have an I of 3.


Well now the invul is against everything and vehicles get it rather than just infantry against psyker powers. And you can always add a cannoness to your assault squads to get the +1 init power.


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

There are a number if issues I have with the dex but it looks mostly fine:

1. With regards to the missing assassins, inquisitors, etc I don't think it is quite time to despair. Instead I think the option for them will be in the army book but you will have to reference Codex GK for the rules.

2. Why on Earth does the living Saint not have EW? It makes absolutely no sense that an eternal avenging angel of death that has spent many long years living and dying does not get the benefit yet a chapter master who gets slapped about by loads of enemies does get it (Calgar).

3. Divine Guidance is horrible. Being able to rend with heavy bolter shots or taking heavy flamers could be very deadly.

4. Why does the Penitent Engine gain the invulnmerable save when every other model that has it is a faithful unit. Not a major sinner who is punished with a sentance worse than death.


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Yeah, why doesn't Dante (The oldest living space marine) have it?


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Samules said:


> Well now the invul is against everything and vehicles get it rather than just infantry against psyker powers. And you can always add a cannoness to your assault squads to get the +1 init power.


Yeah but I shouldn't be forced to take a paticular unit just to make a unit designed for CC better in CC by beefing one stat and its I 4 not like Im griping about wanting I 5. I gotta agree I didn't think about why is EW not on the saint but it could do with the fact that she comes back when she dies. Though yeah I can see some reasoning on the 6+ sv, almost every daemon gets a 5+.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

TheSpore said:


> I gotta agree I didn't think about why is EW not on the saint but it could do with the fact that she comes back when she dies. Though yeah I can see some reasoning on the 6+ sv, almost every daemon gets a 5+.


The Saint doesn't get EW as that would just be sick. Plus, whilst she's uber-holy and something of a ninja, she's also merely human. Being able to shrug off insta-kills is for the superhuman Marines with their surgical enhancements. Isn't coming back from having your face evaporated by a lascannon enough? :wink: 

As for invulnerable saves... Yes, daemons have a better save. They also don't wear power armour. Yes, terminators have a better save, but they pay through the nose and aren't every model in the marine list.


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

I just feel the 6+ is an odd kind of save you rarely see any unit gain that kind of save.


----------



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

You used to be able to get a entire marine army with it through the old drawback system for chapter creation.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

TheSpore said:


> I just feel the 6+ is an odd kind of save you rarely see any unit gain that kind of save.


So... the entire army having it makes them... unique? :wink:


----------



## Sworn Radical (Mar 10, 2011)

LukeValantine said:


> You used to be able to get a entire marine army with it through the old drawback system for chapter creation.


:read: uke:


Back on topic: Depending on the points value of a single Battle Sister this 6++ might not be a bad thing really. It might actually save you a model or two and I'd personally rate it higher than the old 5+ vs. psychic attacks only save.


----------



## Churlton (Nov 23, 2007)

I was wondering if the 6+ invul also counts for the psychic attacks .... or else; why have for models with a given Rosarius (4++).
The stacking of AoF presents many options, but I suspect they will very quickly ramp up the points for any "standard" army, rather than able to create an "Uber" one.
We will need to load with Characters, just to get reasonable functions from assault or Veteran Troops. The difference of payback may be in the load-out option for the types e.g. Relentless heavy weapons for the Veterans. But I cannot think of a plus for the Seraphim at the moment (primarily; in where is the Seraphim boltpistol rule an advantage?).

Hhhmmm, I have started picking on the Ecclesiarchy stuff but haven't had time to put something down yet.
Fragile, frothing loonies who act like Chaplains but are nowhere near as effective (unless you have a mob). They seem to be needed up front, but probably won't last long if they do (a 4++ isn't that great when applied to everything coming at you).
The addition of a Battle Conclave with 3 options only, really does confuse me. Why would you have non-power weapon Arcoflagellents?? and Assassins with "pig-stickers"? at least the Crusaders have Storm-shields.


The Vehicles with a 6++ .........nicek:


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

It would be cool if the preachers could actually sway the masses or cause a low leadership swarm into some preferred action through his oratory skills.


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Im personally looking forward in using this new dex I think its gonna run pretty good. 

For the Preacher and Church nut models I think Im gonna use some of the damsel models from the bretonian knights line just so I can keep the whole image of an all female army, and Im just not a fan of the current models they have except for this old one I still have which looks as if leathure face decided to become a preist and just could put the chainsaw down.


----------



## Churlton (Nov 23, 2007)

TheSpore said:


> Im personally looking forward in using this new dex I think its gonna run pretty good.
> 
> For the Preacher and Church nut models I think Im gonna use some of the damsel models from the bretonian knights line just so I can keep the whole image of an all female army, and Im just not a fan of the current models they have except for this old one I still have which looks as if leathure face decided to become a preist and just could put the chainsaw down.


Have a look at the Mordheim Sisters models as well; they would be great for preachers also.


----------



## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

jaysen said:


> It would be cool if the preachers could actually sway the masses or cause a low leadership swarm into some preferred action through his oratory skills.


Problem with this is it would be insanely good against guard conscript armies but wouldn't make sense against anything else.


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Don't SoB usually fight against rebel imperial citizens, cults and the like? Being a branch of the church, I would think that most of their battles would be against human cults, rogue psychers, insurrectionists, etc...


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

jaysen said:


> Don't SoB usually fight against rebel imperial citizens, cults and the like? Being a branch of the church, I would think that most of their battles would be against human cults, rogue psychers, insurrectionists, etc...


I think some of there fluff is starting to move more towards them fighting xenos and necrons more lately. Then again havnt had much time to read about them .


----------

