# whirlwind vs thunderfire cannon



## automatic (Mar 28, 2009)

Hello everyone. I am new to 40k and I am building a space marines army. I was wondering what are the relative advantages of the whirlwind vs the thunderfire cannon. I like the superior range of the thunderfire cannon, but the whirlwind doesn't need line of sight and that seems like it will be a huge benefit. The thunderfire cannon higher strength but the whirlwind has better AP. Which do you guys typically field and why?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Whirlwind, any day of the week. Whirlies are one of the better tanks that Marines can field, imo. The thunderfire cannon is far too frail, even if it's deployed in a ruin that's reinforced by the Techmarine. One thing I will give the thunderfire cannon though is that it can do a *lot* of damage with four templates per turn.

Also, welcome to Heresy!


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## Johnathanswift (Sep 30, 2008)

Katie said it all, overall whirlwinds are just better, the only case where I have had a thunderfire survive was with an unit of servitors in front that would move in the movment phase so that it could fire then run after it had shot to give the thunderfire cover.


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## Ravenborne (Apr 2, 2009)

I am currently playing a Praetors of Orpheus in an army with 2 Thunderfire cannons, and I have a lot of experience with this gun. Here are my thoughts:

Thunderfires are devastating. I mean devastating. However, they are fragile (but don 't forget your bolstered cover save).

This is why I take 2. Usually both never survive the battle, but one often does. However, 2 make sure you get to fire, and god forbid you get to fire 2 at the same unit. Bye bye unit.

I have never seen a whirlwind wipe a marine or chaos marine unit in one turn. My thunderfires do it with regularity.

The trick with these guns is making sure you have read the Heavy Blast rules. You place the template, then you roll FOUR times. You do not fire once, remove models, then fire again.

The other trick is it mainly works in an army where you blow up vehicles well, or face deep strikers, where everyone bunches up. Once a unit bunches up, your blast template will cover it about 6 or seven models and you get to roll four times. I get between 10 and 16 wounds usually this way. If I fire both cannons, I get double. 

The other thing about thunderfires is that even if they blow up the gun, you still have a techmarine. This is a 75 point elite model, so if you think about it, the gun is only 25 POINTS. Once the gun is destroyed, the tech marine can run around and fix vehicles, or as in my army, jump in a Razorback. This works well since it holds 6 models, so a squad and the techie can all fit. Then the techmarine takes his shooting phase and can fix the las cannon/h. bolter, or even un-immobilize the vehicle. 

This unit now becomes a much more effective assault unit. If you take vulcan, all have techies have TWIN LINKED FLAMERS. Plus the techie has 2 power fists (sevo).

I took a whirlwind in my army once, I will never choose it over a thunderfire cannon again. But that's just me.

I should add I seem to roll really well with my scatter die.

Be warned though, the model is quite possibly the worst model you will ever have to build, several of the parts just do not fit correctly, and they are metal, so you will need to put some time in with a dremel tool.


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## Lord Ramo (Apr 12, 2009)

Personally i would go for the whirlwind any day. As Katie said the thunderfire cannon is "too frail". You kill the techmarine.... The only plus side is the amazing amount of danage it can do!:victory:


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## Aramoru (Apr 19, 2009)

I was just faced with this problem yesterday when i was trying to decide between the two, i ultimately went with the whirlwind because it can give great cover dropping nice ordnance templates rather than 4 small ones. Also its very easy maintain as it does not need a crew and can move rather freely. Another bonus i find as a shamelessly cheap warhammer player is that it can double as a rhino if you don't glue on the missile launcher.
This was my first vehicle i bought and really i dont regret it at all, the moer i learn about it the better it look.


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## Flood_Reaper (Jul 19, 2008)

Just asking, does a tech-marine plus TDC count as two different thing. Example: If it was shot and ended up losing a wound can you just take away the TFC. Also when you blast at an enemy unit with it do you place the template in the location you want then roll the scatter 4 times and or just once and that area is hit 4 times.


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## Aramoru (Apr 19, 2009)

Flood_Reaper said:


> Just asking, does a tech-marine plus TDC count as two different thing. Example: If it was shot and ended up losing a wound can you just take away the TFC. Also when you blast at an enemy unit with it do you place the template in the location you want then roll the scatter 4 times and or just once and that area is hit 4 times.


I think you can place the shots and then roll scatter for each shot respectively.
And as far as the tech marine plus the TFC, they are not the same things its just that the TFC is crewed by the tech marine, if the TFC goes the tech marine can just walk away and go do something else. Im not sure what happens if the tech marine dies and the TFC lives.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Aramoru said:


> I think you can place the shots and then roll scatter for each shot respectively.
> And as far as the tech marine plus the TFC, they are not the same things its just that the TFC is crewed by the tech marine, if the TFC goes the tech marine can just walk away and go do something else. Im not sure what happens if the tech marine dies and the TFC lives.


If the Thunderfire cannon is destroyed than the Techmarine's free to walk about and do other stuff. If the Techmarine dies, then the cannon also counts as destroyed. Treat a Techmarine and cannon as an artillery unit (because it is one).


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Artillery is a (rare) unit type that exists in 40k. Actually one of the very first things in the rules section, which a lot of people flick past, is a double page discussing unit types. Lots of people assume that you basically just have vehicles, infantry and MCs, but you also get jump infantry, cavalry, bikes and artillery all as distinct unit types. The rules for them are in the core rulebook.

I had a big argument at a tournament once when I cast lash of submission on a TFC. Lash can only be fired at "non-vehicle units" and the player (and judge) thought it was a vehicle because it has an armour value. It isn't a vehicle, it's artillery, and it can be lashed. Saying it's a vehicle because it has an armour value is like saying a MC is infantry because it has toughness. Neither case would be true.

I shot the TFC anyway.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Someguy said:


> Artillery is a (rare) unit type that exists in 40k. Actually one of the very first things in the rules section, which a lot of people flick past, is a double page discussing unit types. Lots of people assume that you basically just have vehicles, infantry and MCs, but you also get jump infantry, cavalry, bikes and artillery all as distinct unit types. The rules for them are in the core rulebook.
> 
> I had a big argument at a tournament once when I cast lash of submission on a TFC. Lash can only be fired at "non-vehicle units" and the player (and judge) thought it was a vehicle because it has an armour value. It isn't a vehicle, it's artillery, and it can be lashed. Saying it's a vehicle because it has an armour value is like saying a MC is infantry because it has toughness. Neither case would be true.
> 
> I shot the TFC anyway.



Yeah...except for the line that says "The gun models are treated as Vehicles with an Armour Rating of 10" on page 55 of the BRB...

I also rate Whirlwinds far higher than Thunderfire Cannons. As anyone who reads my blog can tell


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## englhockey (Mar 19, 2009)

I actually take both and a vindicator the thunderfire does more damage throughout a game and is seen as a smaller threat id say give them all a try with your army and see which fits best.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Thunderfire is much more agressive- It'll kill more enemies, more quickly then the whirlwind but its slower and much easier to kill then the cannon.

If your up for an agressive list go for the thunderfire, if your just up for some reliable support go for the whirlwind.


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