# Why are Necrons so "bad" in 5th Edition?



## Rogue-Badger (Sep 7, 2010)

It is general knowledge at this poin that the Necron Codex needs an update. However things didn't get this unfair for Necrons overnight, at some point Phase Out and other assorted Necron problems, were valid rules (, I just don't see GW shipping something broken out the door). 
So what went wrong?


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Gauss weaponry dude.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

well the general problems are thus fold for necrons:

they are not a CC type of army, CC got much better in 5th

Necrons relied on glancing hits to take out tanks most times in 4th, Glancing hits took a hit.

Necrons have always been an "easy to play, hard to master" kind of army, where they are, by far, easy to figure out, but once you start facing skilled players they become very unreliable with their lack of any real choice, especially since they, by far, have the least choices out of all the armies if im not mistaken.

1 Valid non SC HQ
3 Elite choices, only one semi Valid
only 1 troop choice
3 fast attack choices, all with their uses
3 heavy support choices, all have their uses

so if you count the 2 SC aswell, you have 11 useful unit types. 14 unit types overall.

plus the fact that theres 0 customization to your units outside of the single non SC HQ.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Because most Necron players don't know how to play them in this edition. 

Necrons in the hands of a good player are very scary. We have one in our area that is a real tough opponent every game. Which is saying something because my area/club has some very heavy hitters in the tourney scene.


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

To this day I would hate to go against a 3 monolith army. People sometimes cry "cheese" when they see three of them, but what else do they have that is as good, or 
"5th ed feasible" as 3 monoliths on the hunt?

The gauss weapons not being able to hose down vehicles really did hurt the crons. Before, they didn't need a heavy weapons team or the like to make every tank commander think twice before getting too close to a large unit of them. Now, those tanks are virtually safe, well maybe a little stunned or shaken, but by taking extra armor or the like on your vehicles negates the gauss threat to them and you can roll right through them. 

I am waiting for a new dex because I have always wanted to have a necron army. Hell, I bought the old dex just for reading material and because I like them!


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

[sad face] Necrons need some love from GW.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

look there now doing De so necrons aren't far behind


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

My necrons are still undefeated... they can be a truly evil army: I only started them to prove to the local players who thought they were an auto-lose army that they were still viable and now they cant work out how to beat them (mostly they've either only played really bad necron players or just havent seen them).

The major reasons that necrons are seen as weak are that glancing has been nerfed and sweeping advance/combat Ld has been altered. In 4th you could shoot any gauss weapons at a tank and destroy it (and not care if it has smoke or not), now you'll likely shake/stunn it and smoke/cover stops the damage entirely, making it much haredr to kill vehicles. Combat didnt used to be such a problem for necrons, but now as soon as they start losing a few models they'll run away and get sweeping advanced to death.

Then again the necron book is old... and so the gradual powering up of all the armies has left them behind a little (with a lot more AP3 weapons around now then there used to be).... but then things like the Deceiver are still stupidly powerful and great fun to use (although mine has now been cut- he's getting a reputation for stomping all over people's armies).


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

Its gotten to where I hardly shoot at Necrons any more... Just spamming Tank Shocks with Holo-Field/Spirit Stone Falcons seems to do the trick. Sure they are Ld 10 but it just takes one bad check to get a large unit of Warriors running off the board. With a small CC squad inside I almost feel bad for them... 

They do have some pretty nifty tricks though, if the General runs them well enough.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Eldar can be troublesome for Necrons, but not because of Tank Shock. The fact that Eldar can stay out of range of Necrons, and ignore any armour or cover saves is the really bad bit. Dark Reapers are so evil.


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

DeathKlokk said:


> Because most Necron players don't know how to play them in this edition.
> 
> Necrons in the hands of a good player are very scary. We have one in our area that is a real tough opponent every game. Which is saying something because my area/club has some very heavy hitters in the tourney scene.


Feel free to enlighten us as to what he's doing as I just don't see necrons as remotely scary.

Issue 1: Rubbish troops
You have to spend at least 360pts on walking bods that aren't very killy. As these are your only means of scoring you'll probably have to get more. Despite the appearances of being nails they go down very quickly in cc (sweeping advance anyone).

Issue 2: The C'tan
Because of issue one you are almost forced to take the Deceiver- a 300pt model that is massively vulnerable to certain opponents (sternguard, poisoned little bugs, IG/SW shooting). 

Issue 3: Multiple Liths
Decent enough in their way but ubiquous cover saves make their killing output rather subpar when compared to more recent dexs. Lots of dexs have a pretty hard counter (in my case T-fexs and zoans).

Issue 4: Phase Out
The obvious biggy- when you have to buy the other toys to make the basic army work phase out bites you massively in the ass.

So what am I not seeing? What is it that makes necrons remotely competative?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

OddJob said:


> Feel free to enlighten us as to what he's doing as I just don't see necrons as remotely scary.
> 
> Issue 1: Rubbish troops
> You have to spend at least 360pts on walking bods that aren't very killy. As these are your only means of scoring you'll probably have to get more. Despite the appearances of being nails they go down very quickly in cc (sweeping advance anyone).
> ...


Necrons can take a huge amount of undirected fire and have the mobility to really get on your nerves. By undirected fire I mean where a player is just using firepower as a sledgehammer and trying to batter the enemy to death... rather then a scalpel trying to take them apart. 6 units of 20 guardsmen in close range (120men inside 12", dubious really) might all get first rank fire second rank fire off at my unit of 20 warriors, which could kill all of them. But if you didnt take out their support (like a spyder sitting right behind them) then they'll get all my WBB and could put them through a portal... suddenly all that firepower might only have killed about 5 warriors, meanwhile the cron player is laughing his ass off (if you got a tiny bit unlucky and only killed 19 then that unit would still exist as well.

Necrons will never be a dominant army with the current rules, but they are by no means uncompetetive.. they just need a clever player behind them not to fall into some of the common pitfalls.


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## I_bring_chaos95 (Sep 12, 2010)

the way i see it the necrons are a good army for those who have been playing for a while they are not for noobs to the game,that said even someone who has been playing for years may lose allot playing necron we are all at the mearcy of the dice lol
fear the necrons all the same


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## Stormbrow II (May 10, 2010)

Necrons have very little variety compared to the newer books. There are multiple builds available to Guard, Wolves and BA for example, while a Necron host has to be composed of minimum 20 warriors, who are basically overcosted as a hangover from 4th ed.

Some of their remaining units are sub-optimal: their combat troops aren't great at combat and their HQ's are expensive for what they do.

They won't be so bland in their book that's out next year though.


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## The Boz (Aug 16, 2010)

Here's hoping for Phase Two!


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Hang over from 3rd ed. actually.

The advantaged of the Necrons are the sheer mobility of the forces. So many units that move like Jetbikes, and have S6+ 36" guns. Very powerful.

15 Destroyers and a Monolith at 1.5k is really nice. There are some really strong builds, if you are the sort of player that spends a lot of time seriously contemplating the codex (which is not the case for most players of 40k in general).


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

Don't put too much stock in the "it's too hard to kill vehicles!" camp - EVERY shot ANY necron unleashes can potentially glance a landraider.

If my chaos marines got up on a 4+ and could use their bolters to glance a raider I'd be in heaven. As it is, I need to upgrade to at least a rocket launcher at the cost of 20 points to be able to glance AV14 (or 11 for that matter...) and now I have a heavy weapon that I can't move and fire.

Necrons are a weak army because their only troop MUST foot slog (unless you have a 'lith to teleport...) meaning they are vulnerable to being shot as they march to hold objectives (but frankly - they have a 50% chance to get back up from everything that is <S8 unless you completely wipe out the unit...).

AND because they are initiative 2, they WILL lose combat against any dedicated assault unit and then chances are they will break from combat & yes, be ran down. BUT to be fair, this I believe still functions to balance their army out. Turns one and two a necron player should be able to glance enough transports into at least an immobilized state and force those nasty assault troopers to also foot-slog and now the necrons should be at an advantage (haven't lost points on transports) since any wounds taken while the two forces saunter across the board can potentially be regenerated. This is where wraiths shine. With S6, NORMAL initiative and a 3++ they should be able to hold even TH/SS terminators at bay for a round or two of combat.

The biggest problem Necrons face is (again, in my opinion almost a FEATURE of the race) their lack of options. Frankly, we as players can bemoan only having one troops choice with no upgrades available to them - BUT then if you want choice, customization and character, maybe an army of unrelenting, soulless autonomons is not the army for you...

... am I alone in appreciating the irony?


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

clever handle said:


> - BUT then if you want choice, customization and character, maybe an army of unrelenting, soulless autonomons is not the army for you...
> 
> ... am I alone in appreciating the irony?


I actually appriciate the lack of options in the Necron codex, in a strange sort of way. 

I would be disappointed if the new codex turned out something like IG/'Nids


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

gally912 said:


> I would be disappointed if the new codex turned out something like IG/'Nids


So would I... Like totally...

Midnight!


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I like the number of infantry/jetbike units in the necron dex, but I would like a secondary type of building- something to add more mobility and character (like static 'catacombs' mebbe being able to buy a pair of extra portals through which units could enter play, or hide in).
The relatively few options for the army is prefect for what thy are- an automatom army shouldnt have the same sort of variety as a human/xeno army. BUt having said that I would move flayed ones to troops: in all the books flayed ones are described as scouts or ambushers... they aren't an elite force like any in the other codexes (elites tend to be heavy hitting infantry)... it also works thought wise too: you have the standard necron with a gun and the standard necron with blades.


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## ninja skills (Aug 4, 2009)

i totally agree with tim/steve here necrons aren't bad just limited.

5th ed hit them the hardest as things like the nerf to glancing and combat resolution messed them up as they are meant to be the most resilient army their is, but not any more. that does men they are bad just really hard to use now (i'm now giving my deamons alot of love) 

i've got my several thousand points of necrons waiting for a new book and i'm looking forward to what they do with it, if they keep the themes right (hard to kill, pretty powerful and non transport redeployment) they could do some good things with them

lets hope


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

I sold my first Necron army because winning with it bored me.
I have a second now because I like a variety of armies for my varying moods.

I keep hearing players say they need at least one C'Tan and three monoliths to win, and I just don't find that to be true. I have a foot-slogger Lord and a Destroyer Lord, a group of 6 Pariahs, one Monolith, and two squads of troops (10-20 each, according to points) as my "meat and potatoes". Destroyers, Wraiths, and Heavy Destroyers get added in as points allow, as do more troops.
I just move the army around and shoot things, let the Pariahs counter-assault anything that manages to assault, and use the Destroyer Lord to draw fire and attack characters.
*Shrug.*
It isn't that hard to win with them, regardless of edition.


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## Bloodcuddler of Khorne (Mar 22, 2010)

(This thread seems to be the place to ask this, since it's probably over the "tell him not to play necrons, they suck!" phase and seems to have the attention of people who know how to make them work.)

A friend of mine wants to start playing 40k and is completely dead-set on playing Necrons, mostly because it's one of the few armies not currently used by anyone in our group (Necrons, Tau and Dark Eldar--and I'm looking into getting Tau.) He's got somewhat of a plan after looking through the codex, and I was wondering if I should advise against it or if he has a good idea.

Basically, he wants to take Pariahs joined by a footslogging Necron Lord with Gaze of Flame and a Warscythe (to bring things they fight to Ld 6) while backing them up with Flayed Ones. He likes the idea of enemies needed to pass a Ld test to hit them accurately while they have reduced Ld and that seems cool in theory, but I'm worried that the Flayed One part of the plan won't work so well, since in that situation I would just attack the Pariahs first and ignore the Flayed Ones at first anyway. Maybe if they were in a separate nearby combat, but that's about it.

What do you guys think?


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## Daddysen (May 31, 2010)

What I dont understand is why aren't necrons fearless. what do they have to be worried about ... dying they are death! and half the time they dont die anyway. it makes no dang sense to me. i mean chaos has a multitude of fearless troops choices. :sigh: anyway thats the main thing i have beef with ([email protected]#$ sweeping advance in the [email protected]#$%$# [email protected]#) ok i feel better now having let that out


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

@BoK http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/09/40k-necron-nightmare-build.html
Thats a BoLS article on the nightmare build, which sounds to be what your friend is aiming for. Its a decent enough army, but not especially nasty.

@Daddysen- necrons are neither mindless nor crazed, when they start to lose they will fall back in an orderly way. Sweeping advance can be thought of as them being far too disorganised for necron liking so have phased out in order to maintain force coherancy.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Bloodcuddler of Khorne said:


> (This thread seems to be the place to ask this, since it's probably over the "tell him not to play necrons, they suck!" phase and seems to have the attention of people who know how to make them work.)
> 
> A friend of mine wants to start playing 40k and is completely dead-set on playing Necrons, mostly because it's one of the few armies not currently used by anyone in our group (Necrons, Tau and Dark Eldar--and I'm looking into getting Tau.) He's got somewhat of a plan after looking through the codex, and I was wondering if I should advise against it or if he has a good idea.
> 
> ...


It is not an ideal plan. Pariahs don't have WBB and cost double the points of a Warrior. Flayed Ones don't have a shooting attack and will get gunned down before they get to CC. If they do manage to get to CC then they are generally about average, and also much worse than enemy CC units tend to be.

It isn't a list I would recommend for someone new to Necrons, let's put it like that.


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## Daddysen (May 31, 2010)

Tim/Steve said:


> @Daddysen- necrons are neither mindless nor crazed, when they start to lose they will fall back in an orderly way. Sweeping advance can be thought of as them being far too disorganised for necron liking so have phased out in order to maintain force coherancy.


I dont think being fearless always means being mindless or Crazed. i just think that logically speaking they have nothing to fear and they have a Goal and from all the fluff they act like fearless in the stories why not in the game. i think it is ok that they take leadership tests but if they get caught in a sweeping advance i think they would turn around and start fighting again like marines do.


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

It's not their fault, their "Off" switch is on their backs, that's all.


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