# Corax in the Black Library?



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I honestly cant remember where i saw this bit of fluff but im certain it was in a codex/rulebook/whitedwarf and therefor canon. 

Either way im sure i read once in a bit of fluff that was talking about the black library mention a raven haired individual being allowed entry by the guardians. Sure there was something else indicating it could be talking about Corax. But as i cant remember for the life of me where i saw it not much help, just wondering if anyone else can remember seeing it


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## Moggy3d (Jun 2, 2010)

hmm im sure ive read this too, i think it was one of the first lot of pages in the old rulebook or maybe on lex i cant remember but im sure it has something to do with keeping the ctan dragon trapped via a sacrifice or i might be going off on a completly different track haha :scratchhead:


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

If it's talking about the Black Library, it's likely to have been in the Inquisition War trilogy, probably the final book.


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## dark angel (Jun 11, 2008)

Perhaps you mixed it up with Jaghatai Khan? From what I know the Black Library is in the Webway and he was last seen entering it. I honestly have never seen this anywhere, though as far as I know, Corax took his shuttle/ship/whatever into the Eye of Terror.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

I doubt it was any of the Primarchs- you're reading too much into the _'raven-haired individual'_ line, it seems like it's just talking about someone with black hair rather being a subtle reference to Corax.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Ahriman will tell you when he gets in.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

It would be interesting if a primarch is just chilling in the black library to this day. Maybe a chaos primarch since it is a fountain of info on chaos-maybe other alpha legion primarch.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Reason i thought it was Corax was i seem to remember him being mentioned previously. Anyone got Index Astarted for Raven Guard? Plus only very special people get let into the library. If Corax was going in their to udnerstand how to defeat chaos im sure they would grant him entry.

Quite amusing if Ahriman finally got in only to walk round a bookshelf straight into Corax, mega "oh ffs......" moment


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## gauntsghost025 (Apr 9, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> If Corax was going in their to udnerstand how to defeat chaos im sure they would grant him entry.


In 10,000 years what, a handful of humans have gained entry to the Black Library. I don't think it is as easy as you think.

But I did hear question number 5 on the Black Library Entry Request Form, "Are you here to learn how to defeat Chaos?" trips everyone up.:biggrin:


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Yeah but thats what i mean, if its only a handful its going to be the best of them. I can see a Primarch falling into the pretty fucking special category.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

I've got the Index Astartes (all of them) Corax just heads off to the Eye of Terror, nothing more is known about what happens to him.

Primarchs might be 'special' but I doubt the Eldar would allow such individuals into the Black Library- why would they?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Arghh need to remember where i read it. Well the Eldar have let in Inqusitors, The Illuminati and Sensei. Why let them in but not a Primarch


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Because all those individuals have extensive knowledge of Chaos and have shown that they oppose it with every fibre of their being, and it's not like the majority of Inquisitors are allowed in (certainly not double figures in 10,000 years) whilst we don't even know if the Illuminati and Sensei are still part of the 40k background.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

True. Still thought Corax wouls be pretty dedicated to the total destruction of Chaos


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## gauntsghost025 (Apr 9, 2009)

And the Eldar as well.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

gauntsghost025 said:


> And the Eldar as well.


Well the Eldar own the Black Library so them being allowed in is a given...


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Angel of Blood said:


> Why let them in but not a Primarch


Could be some petty bitterness; they did try to deal with the primarchs directly in order to stop terrible things from happening (such as the Heresy) and things ended up going less than swell. The primarchs themselves may have been so sure of things that the Eldar just cannot allow such being to have access to the black library for fear of what they might do with it.

The few they do let in, they are far easier for the Eldar to manipulate or control. So to some degree they know what they will do with the information; primarchs are much more of a mystery and near impossible for the Eldar to manipulate.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Yeah but thats what i mean, if its only a handful its going to be the best of them. I can see a Primarch falling into the pretty fucking special category.


How is a Primarch the best of them? The individuals that have been admitted entrence are ones that have been judged pure and untained by Chaos, and have a darn good reason and purpose for needing to be let into the Black Library. If anything all the Primarchs were/are tainted by Chaos to varying degrees, and most of them are by no means 'pure'.



Angel of Blood said:


> Still thought Corax would be pretty dedicated to the total destruction of Chaos


Maybe not as dedicated as the Harlequins would like...

Take into account that all of the human individuals that have been let into the Black Library are those whose opposition to Chaos is not even remotely in question, they are unswervingly oppossed to it. That is not necessarily the case with Corax or any of the other Primarchs for that matter.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I hardly see Inqusitors as 'pure' either and are by no means the best humanity has to offer. Then the Illuminati just want to bring the new Empeor about which would ultimately lead to the Eldar getting attacked aswell, yet they still let them in. I can't see why a Primarch like Corax might not be allowed entry, he's proven his loyalty and turned down the chance to join them, i imagine he wants nothing more in life than to defeat chaos.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> I hardly see Inqusitors as 'pure' either and are by no means the best humanity has to offer.


Of course they're not. But there are certain individual Inquisitors (like the ones allowed into the Black Library) who are utterly pure and completley dedicated to the war against Chaos. 



Angel of Blood said:


> Then the Illuminati just want to bring the new Empeor about which would ultimately lead to the Eldar getting attacked aswell, yet they still let them in.


Even the Harlequins may see a revived Emperor as the only chance left to defeat Chaos...

And take into account that its not the mainstream Craftworld Eldar who own or even steward the Black Library, its the Harlequins.



Angel of Blood said:


> I can't see why a Primarch like Corax might not be allowed entry, he's proven his loyalty and turned down the chance to join them, i imagine he wants nothing more in life than to defeat chaos.


All he did was in a roundabout way prove his loyalty to the Emperor (and even that can be questioned considering the fact that he committed his own brand of Heresy during the Horus Heresy), not to the cause of defeating Chaos. Just because he sided with his father during a rebellion by no means makes him pure or unquestionably oppossed to Chaos. Also take into account that the loyalist Primarchs were initially completely unaware that Chaos was the reason behind Horus' rebellion, in their eyes they were challenging a rebel, not a Chaos Lord.


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## gauntsghost025 (Apr 9, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Well the Eldar own the Black Library so them being allowed in is a given...


I meant that Corax is pretty dedicated to the destruction of the Eldar as well as Chaos. So the fact that he hates the Eldar as well and may use the knowledge he gains against them after he takes down Chaos as well may affect their decisions. 

Primarchs are special, but if they are able to get in why not Space Marines? Chaplains? I'm sure %99.9999 of humans(that know about its true nature) want Chaos to be destroyed, so why not let them in? 

Try to get into the Vatican Library, its like the same thing but a million times more difficult and important.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Since when has Corax been dedicated to killing the Eldar?

What act of Heresy did he commit in the heresy? Sure he tried a shitty way to increase his legions numbers, but his intentions were good. 

Honestly we just dont have enough information about Corax, im just going off something i read a good while back, heck it might not be Corax, but given what little we know about him i could see it happening.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Angel of Blood said:


> Since when has Corax been dedicated to killing the Eldar?
> 
> What act of Heresy did he commit in the heresy? Sure he tried a shitty way to increase his legions numbers, but his intentions were good.
> 
> Honestly we just dont have enough information about Corax, im just going off something i read a good while back, heck it might not be Corax, but given what little we know about him i could see it happening.


Magnus' intentions were good as well.

Corax messed with the genetic template set down by his father, something that Fabius Bile is reviled for.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Since the eldar became xenos.

I think it is an act of heresy to mess with the gene-seed... Although, since he is a primarch that rule may not apply.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

gauntsghost025 said:


> after he takes down Chaos


Just to point out, gaining entrence to the Black Library doesn't give one the power to 'take down' Chaos. The Black Library is filled with the knowledge that the Eldar have gathered over the millennia in relation to Chaos, its not an automatic 'I Win' button.



gauntsghost025 said:


> Primarchs are special, but if they are able to get in why not Space Marines? Chaplains? I'm sure %99.9999 of humans(that know about its true nature) want Chaos to be destroyed, so why not let them in?


Im pretty sure 99.9999% of humans would probably want to kill the Emperor and piss on the ashes of the Imperium if they knew his true nature as well...

Chaos is not evil, its a wild elemental force which appeals to the base desires of mortals. The vast majority of humanity (if not protected by the Emperor as things stand) would willingly bow down and serve Chaos.



Angel of Blood said:


> What act of Heresy did he commit in the heresy?


As im sure you know he tampered with the geneseed of his Legion, not a massive deal considering what else was happening during that time period but still disobedience and heresy none the less.



Angel of Blood said:


> Sure he tried a shitty way to increase his legions numbers, but his intentions were good.


Horus' and Magnus' intentions were good as well...



Angel of Blood said:


> Honestly we just dont have enough information about Corax, im just going off something i read a good while back, heck it might not be Corax, but given what little we know about him i could see it happening.


As far as im aware there has never been any background material suggesting or even subtly implying that Corax had anything to do with the Webway or Black Library. All we know is that during/after the Scouring he was last seen on a ship heading towards the Eye of Terror.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Since the eldar became xenos.


Pretty sure the Inqusition who have been let in aren't huge Xenos fans either. 

I would argue that although Magnus did what he did with the best intentions, he still made a pact with chaos, as did Horus. While what Corax did was desperate he didn't resort to Chaos to save his legion.

And i realise that no there is no real evidence to say Corax is, although it would be interesting. Far more interesting than the standard template of "went to the Eye of Terror" that all the cool kids seem to be doing.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Ordo Malious has been let in because they are aloes against chaos... I am pretty damn sure ordo xenos is on the shit list.

And you don't have to go to chaos to be labeled as a heretic.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

The Ordo Malleus are still just as xenophobic as anyone else in the Imperium. Just because they specialise in Deamon hunting doesn't meant they suddenly tolerate Xenos, you can guarantee that they would still kill Xenos quite happily


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Ordo Xenos are on a different lvl, but yes they would fry any xeno they could IF they didn't serve such a valuable service. Ordo Malleus has a reason not to shoot the eldar and the eldar know that so, out of mutual benefit, they ally against chaos. Marines aren’t nearly as valuable. Not saying it couldn’t happen, I prefer that idea to the generally excepted explanation.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

It's not like every, or even most, Ordo Malleus Inquisitors have access to the Black Library though. It's more like only a handful of Inquisitors in the history of the Imperium have entered the Black Library.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Weren't a good number of those Illuminati? Or is it possible that they were?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

If you accept that Illuminati are canon (I'm undecided either way currently) then it might even be likely.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> I would argue that although Magnus did what he did with the best intentions, he still made a pact with chaos, as did Horus. While what Corax did was desperate he didn't resort to Chaos to save his legion.


Both Magnus and Horus believed they could control and master Chaos, they still had the best intentions though. Corax was probably completley unaware of what Chaos actually was. Having good intentions doesn't automatically justify the means by which you achieve that end though.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

True the Ordo Xenos are the most Xenophobic of all but theirs no indication at all other than literally a handful of Inquisitors that the Ordo Malleus tolerate Xenos anymore than the rest of the Inqusition and Imperium. 

Infact only two Inquisitors i know of have even been named that have gained access to the Library. One from the Ordo Malleus being Jaq Draco, who actually broke into their and stole from it. The other being Czevak, who was allowed access to come and go, and was from the Ordo Xenos


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I thought Czevak was ordo Xenos-how the hell did that guy get in.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

The more you fight a foe, the better you come to understand them. I guess Czevak realised the eldar had more to offer than simply their defeat. Eisenhorn and Ravenor both learned this in their careers.

This is the kind of alliance the optimists tend to rant about. It is happening, just on a really small scale in the grand scheme of things. And its benefits so far are negligible. Stop a chaos invasion here, save a planet there, small victories. 

I don`t see why Corax would be let in. Other primarchs were better suited, and none of them gained access...


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## jimmyhoppityhop (Aug 10, 2009)

let me just point a big but in this, the other persons that have entred the black libary have come by a kind of request, i dont think you can just turn up in a thunder hawq gunship and go hey, i kinda need to learn bit bout chaos, think i can get let in for a milenia. i myself am i raven guard supporter but what corax did is still heresy and would class him as unpure!

btw 100th post


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I wouldnt have said he turned up in a thunderhaw as was like 'sup? but again how are we to know whether the Eldar would allow him in, and what the Eldar consider heresy and not heresy arent exactly imperium standard. Im sure Czevak wiped out a good few Eldar in his time and other Xenos before they allowed him in. And as for Draco he was hardly pure now was he, he stole from it!


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Draco was not let in. He snuck in and robbed-different from others who are welcomed in. Makes you wonder how he did it yet Ahriman cannot.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well it is guarded by the Harlequins so, if you prove yourself worthy, it don't really matter if you fry a few eldar.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Dunno, he did it somehow. Ahriman did come very close tbf


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