# Rate the Emperor's EQ



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Can a case be made that the Emperor is _not_ emotionally retarded?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Make a case _for_ him being emotionally retarded and i'll happily argue the contrary.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Having lived as long as he had, he no doubt witnessed many loved ones and friends perish. This naturally would have hardened him to the harsh realities of existence. 

With the primarchs however, he was making his big power play, he was heavily invested in these creations both from an aspiration and military perspective. As such emotions would have come into it at one stage or another. Making beings of potential immortality and abilities on a scale closer to his own makes a certain level of emotional attachment justifiable. 

Maybe these conflicting priorities can be attributed at least in part to his erratic decisions and failures.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Make a case _for_ him being emotionally retarded and i'll happily argue the contrary.


His handling of Lorgar and Angron 

Horus, Magnus, Curze could've been handled a lot better too

Lorgar in particular as it's fleshed out in The First Heretic


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

I'm not sure he was emotionally retarded, more he just didn't seem to have a massively strong connection emotionally with some of his primarch sons. I mean, I have fallen massively behind and am working up to getting to grips with the fluff again, but from where I am standing now, he just didn't seem to like many of his sons. 

Yes maybe Horus was different, but he just seemed to resent Lorgar and Magnus especially. I don't think the Emperor really "loved" any of them aside from Horus. 

I would certainly be surprised if anyone tried to argue the case that He liked someone more than Malcador, Malcador and the Emperor obviously have some amazing connection but who knows where that stems from. 

But like has been previously mentioned, the Emperor did some pretty crazy things. All sorts of rumors are abound about the things he did, and when you have done some truly mind blowing things, perhaps emotional attachment to lab experiments and mortals tends to get put in perspective as meaningless when viewing "the big picture". 

I am a bit confused what you mean by emotionally retarded to be honest, he didn't much care for his sons, but he had a crazy large amount of emotions. Mostly anger I think, anger at not being treated with the respect he deserves.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm not sure if we can judge the Emperor from our viewpoint. 

He's an individual who has existed for tens of thousands of years with no equal. His goals are the long term survival and supremacy of the human race. He's only superficially human. There is no one he can relate with, or who can relate with him. He's removed from the human race. 

His perspective is alien to us. He's not interested in his own personal gains or future. He's not planning for the next day, month, year or even the next decade. He's planning epochs ahead. That frame of reference would not lend itself well to socializing and understanding petty 'mortal' emotions. I don't think he retains enough humanity to fully emotionally engage with other members of the species. 

Remember too that the primarchs were taken out of his control. He was making due with damaged goods, having to adjust his plans. It's quite likely he simply was unable to fully understand or relate to the primarchs as persons with emotions, foibles and failings. He saw things in such a different way. Emotions were likely just another set of parameters to be observed and manipulated, abstract concepts that he intellectually knew others had but couldn't fully understand or express himself. 

Ultimately though the Emperor's behavior and actions are determined by the back story which was already in place for a good couple decades in GW's fluff and not fully fleshed out and detailed at the outset. It's only now with the heresy series that we're having to come up with plausible reasons for some of the more unbelievable scenarios leading up to the Heresy.


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## Regent of Ultramar (Jun 10, 2012)

I agree with Rems completely. A "human" who was going to plan the most powerful empire in all of history and protect his species from every threat most likely would view emotions as a thing other, maybe lesser beings had to deal with. Of course, being the Emperor, he wouldn't be bothered to concern himself with them.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

I Think he did care about the Primarchs, they are after all the only beings that he could sort of empathise with, they are also the fruit of a substantial amount of effort and planning on his part and pivotal to the success of his plans.

i would however add that really the Heresy itself, the betrayal of Horus was really, in the grand scheme of things just a minor setback, the only true blow (other than making the Emperor into a vegetable) was the irreparable damage Magnus did to the webway, its because of that the Emperor couldn't leave the Golden throne, its because of that the majority of his psychic power was tied up with the webway, making unable to fight the traitors directly, and if the webway worked, the imperium could have healed, the traitor forces routed and mankind enter into a new prosperous age.

so in a way, even if he didnt care about some of his sons, it was largely inconsequential, the only true blow was that of Magnus, born out of his arrogance and pride.

And the fact the Emperor showed some of his sons paternal love dosent mean they would turn out the way he wanted, he loved Horus and how did that turn out? he Fulgrim his own persoanl symbol to wear and look at Fulgrim now, so really, being more loving/helpful dosent ensure loyalty.

And as for Malcador, i believe the strong bond comes from the fact they are both immensely powerful psykers, probably friends before the primarchs were made, they shared the same goals and ideas, they trusted each other and the Emperor even possessed him a few times, but he definitely at least liked some of his sons he acts like a father to dorn and from the fluff i read he seemed to like Sanguinius quite a lot, he also seemed to hate Russ when they first met, but they eventually came to love each other.

Futhermore, on the subject of lorgar:
+Word Bearers, hear me well. You, among all my Legions, are
guilty of failure. You number more warriors than any other, excepting
the XIII. Yet your conquests are the slowest, and your
victories ring hollow+
+You linger on compliant worlds for years after final victory,
driving the populace into the worship of false faith, seeding cults
of the naive and the deceived, erecting monuments to lies. All
you have done in the Great Crusade is for naught. While all others
succeed and bring prosperity to the Imperium, you alone
have failed me+


the Emperor has seen, countless times the deteriorating effect of religion and how it can be manipulated by chaos, the Emperor gives Lorgar a purpose, a reason, an objective and Lorgar not only turns the reasons on its head, he also does a crap job of it.

The Emperor didnt mind the wolves being somewhat excessively (in certain ways religious) or the Martians worshipping him, or the use of psychic powers in the thousand sons,or the crazed lunatics in the world eaters and night lords, mutations of the blood angels, but because they achieved their designated purpose he overlooked it, they were flawed but they got the job done, Lorgar was flawed and did fuck all.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

When the Emperor retreated to the throne on Terra it seemed as though he did not do it on good terms. From the first three books, it seemed like even those legions and primarchs that liked the Emperor more had a slight grudge feeling betrayed by the Emperor when he left the Crusade. Totally understandable, but even the Luna Wolves and Horus fell because of those feelings. 

It brings up the question of how the other legions must have felt. Especially the ones that did not work well with the Emperor and Imperial Ideology. 

There are a few things that don't make sense to me. Why did the Emperor pretty much leave The Great Crusade with nearly half the legions under bad terms? Especially seeing that quite a few of them were psychologically messed up. Was this a mistake or was he rushed to something important that we still do not know about. We know he had the construction of the Imperial Webway underway. But why attend to it when you have nearly half the legions and primarchs pissed off at you and a bunch of them that he most likely considers incompetent.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

Perhaps, due to reasons unbeknownst to us,the web way had to be created as early as possible, maybe the fact the Emperor was slowly losing his ability to look into the future led him to a rash decision, he wasn't sure if he would have another chance, he knew chaos was going to show its hand soon and he deemed it necessary to act, though the circumstances were inopertune. (he is probably not used to being blind and that also lead him to the rash decision.)

And to be fair, Dorn, Russ, even some traitor legions like the alpha legion or thousand sons and Fulgrim never held it against him, he taught Horus every relevant detail, he gave him vast armies, wisdom, brothers he could confide in and ask for guidance, all he had to do was babysit the imperium for a short time, Ffs he is a engineered super soldier/general, you'd think he could be left alone for 5 to 6 years.

I'm (edit) extremely pretty goddamn damn sure (edit) Horus fell, not because of the Emperor abandoning him but like Magnus fierce pride and arrogance, Tenba warned him, when Erebus showed him the visions he knew they were meaningless without context, he just wanted to make his own name, carve out his own empire, conquer something the Emperor believed was unconquerable.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Lost&Damned said:


> ...I'm pretty damn sure...


That's pretty damn sure.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Lost&Damned said:


> i would however add that really the Heresy itself, the betrayal of Horus was really, in the grand scheme of things just a minor setback, the only true blow (other than making the Emperor into a vegetable) was the irreparable damage Magnus did to the webway, its because of that the Emperor couldn't leave the Golden throne, its because of that the majority of his psychic power was tied up with the webway, making unable to fight the traitors directly, and if the webway worked, the imperium could have healed, the traitor forces routed and mankind enter into a new prosperous age.


Don't really agree with you here

The combined effect of irreparable damage to the webway _and_ Horus' betrayal causes the Emperor's vision to fail miserably. 

...and by emotionally retarded, I mean low EQ (not skilled in handling interpersonal relationships) 

Even if the Emperor, a vastly intelligent being, were incapable of feeling emotion, he should still recognise the importance of going through the motions. Neglecting the feelings of several of his sons results in disaster for him


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

alright time to come clean, wtf does EQ stand for?

also, i understand the "combined part" but if the webway worked, no more need for warp travel and communication, travel, and transport would become incredibly efficient, entire armies could be transported from one side of the galaxy to the other without any of the setbacks that plague warp travel.

they could be deployed and reinforced in a moments notice, and thats not even considering the improvements to technology, they could pool resources, ideas from all over the galaxy, mankind would grow closer, smarter and with the Emperors guidance more prosperous in every way, the traitors treachery would be rendered null and void, they could be fought everywhere with maximum efficiency (with warp travel it can take decades for the imperium to properly mobilize) the Tyranids could be dealt with easier, the evacuations undertaken more efficiently.

they wopuld also eventually have better technology than the traitors, giving them yet another advantage, the traitors wouldnt be able to leave the eye for fear that a 100 different chapters would materialize so far up their asses they came out of their mouths.
heres a few quotes:

He had tried to deliver his warning, showing his father what he
had seen and what he knew. It hadn’t mattered. Nothing he
could have said would have outweighed or undone the colossal
mistake he had made in coming to Terra. The treachery of Horus
was swept away, an afterthought in the wake of the destruction
Magnus had unwittingly unleashed. Wards that had kept the
palace safe for a hundred years were obliterated in an instant,
and the psychic shockwave killed thousands and drove hundreds
more to madness and suicide.

The Golden Throne was the key The control it maintained on the shimmering gateway at his back was ended, and the artfully designed mechanism keeping the two worlds apart was fatally fractured. (the Emperor even now keeps the warp from swallowing Terra whole.)

so really, the general plan the Emperor had would have still come to fruition, and even if he was massively injured by horus he could be left to die and resurrect because there would be no need for him to power the astronomican.. also Magnus inadvertently killed Malcador.

edit: thanks regent of Ultramar, and to get back to OP i belive the rest of my post/s detailed my opinion on whether or not the Emperor "going through the motions" would have helped.


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## Regent of Ultramar (Jun 10, 2012)

Lost&Damned. It means emotional quotient I believe.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> His handling of Lorgar...


On inspection, I don't think there is too much of a case to suggest Lorgar was mistreated by the Emperor. The XVII Legion was the only Legion to have failed in its purpose, and by extension Lorgar was the only Primarch to have failed in his purpose. He was spreading his own doctrine which conflicted with, and even denounced the Imperial truth. He was a threat to the new order and thus the Emperor acted accordingly. 

What could/should the Emperor have done differently?



MontytheMighty said:


> and Angron


_Phoebus_ covers the Emperor's treatment of Angron (from the lore perspective of _After Desh'ea_) here, here and here. Or at least presents a compelling case.



MontytheMighty said:


> Horus...


I presume you are referring to the Emperor not informing Horus of exactly why he was returning to Terra? Again, I don't see the issue. Horus was aware that it was necessary and of vital importance (he says as much in _Horus Rising_), and had himself been given "overall strategic command" of the Great Crusade before on several occasions, there was no reason to believe that Horus couldn't have handled the mantle of Warmaster. 



MontytheMighty said:


> Magnus...


You'll have to be more specific about which saga concerning Magnus you're referring to.



MontytheMighty said:


> Curze...


Curze was a crazed sociopath who knocked his own brother unconscious, went rogue destroying his own homeworld in the process, and took his Legion into exile. What was the Emperor supposed to do differently?


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> What could/should the Emperor have done differently?


He could've rebuked Lorgar less harshly. I believe a less harsh rebuke would've been more effective. The Emperor's tactless approach had the opposite effect. He could've tried to win over a wayward son with a bit of tact. Instead, he ended up bitchslapping Lorgar into the dirt in front of Guilliman...really, that was the Emperor's best idea? 



> _Phoebus_ covers the Emperor's treatment of Angron (from the lore perspective of _After Desh'ea_) here, here and here. Or at least presents a compelling case.


I'll read that




> I presume you are referring to the Emperor not informing Horus of exactly why he was returning to Terra? Again, I don't see the issue. Horus was aware that it was necessary and of vital importance (he says as much in _Horus Rising_), and had himself been given "overall strategic command" of the Great Crusade before on several occasions, there was no reason to believe that Horus couldn't have handled the mantle of Warmaster.


Again, I don't see why the Emperor likes to keep his sons ignorant. I suppose you could argue it's a necessary ignorance for the Imperium's good...but really? Horus feels abandoned. He's the Emperor's favoured son. Give him a bit of information. Heck, give him false/partially false information...as long as Horus doesn't feel neglected by his father. 



> You'll have to be more specific about which saga concerning Magnus you're referring to.


At the moment, I don't remember WTF I was specifically referring to...damn 

Off the top of my head: perhaps explain to Magnus why he should not try to contact the Emperor telepathically (at least a partial explanation...i.e. the consquences to the Imperium of disobeying that order). Again, the Emperor loves to keep his sons in the dark. Look how that turns out. 




> Curze was a crazed sociopath who knocked his own brother unconscious, went rogue destroying his own homeworld in the process, and took his Legion into exile. What was the Emperor supposed to do differently?


Curze was performing his role perfectly. The Emperor needed people who wouldn't flinch at the prospect of doing dirty jobs (Russ was one of them). The Emperor could've shown a bit of appreciation. Instead he seemed to have driven Curze farther away from him.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

This is an old argument and one that I have spoken about before and I will do so again.

Is the Emperor emotionally retarded? No.

Why didn't he handle the Primarchs better? Why did he castigate Lorgar? Why did he abandon Horus? Why did he punish Magnus and Cruze? We can argue that these events pushed to his ultimte demise and we'd all be right cause they did.

What you want to know is why didn't the Emperor do anything to really solve or smooth over these problems?

Probably because he'd just forged 20 post-Astartes super-beings. Each of them, alone could rule the entire galaxy. For them he had forged the greatest soldiers than Mankind had ever known.

He probably thought his super-creations weren't emotionally retarded themselves and had maturity beyond that of a sixteen-year-old boy.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

BlackGuard said:


> He probably thought his super-creations weren't emotionally retarded themselves and had maturity beyond that of a sixteen-year-old boy.


So is the Emperor retarded for not realising his Primarchs are emotional retards? :biggrin:

In all seriousness, Lorgar's reaction is not unexpected, and even if it were "emotionally immature", the Emperor should've taken that into account...


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## Garrak (Jun 18, 2012)

First let's keep in mind that the Heresy is supposed to be a tragedy, thus mistakes will be made, people will be rash and make dumb choices and so on. The Emperor made some bad calls but it's easy to say when you *know* how it all ends and such.

The Emperor probably thought that if he tried tact with Lorgar, the result would have been that Lorgar would have ignored/misinterpreted what was said. Lorgar might have had the "brilliant" idea of 'only the truly divine, deny their divinity' or some such - I think that thought process actually appears somewhere in the books but I'm not sure. Thus he probably thought a system shock would be better - and it might have worked if Khor Phaeron wasn't a Chaos worshiper all along and Erebus was a power hungry bastard. 

Malcador was originally sent to tell Lorgar to stop being religious with Guilliman and his starch arses as enforcers (since it was a good bet Lorgar would react like any religious person told drop his religion). When Lorgar behaved like an arrogant ass with Malcador (and slapped him as I recall) then the Emperor appeared and slapped Lorgar back. 

There was also the fact that we know Lorgar's pod was breached while in the Warp. Throne knows what did to him and the Emperor certainly couldn't guess that Lorgar had been tampered with.


Curze was a psychopath who despised his own legion for being full of murderers, rapists and other psychos. As of Void Stalker we now also have the theory that Curze may have been experiencing gene-seed (or whatever Primarch equivalent) rejection. Plus we know he terrorized planets to death and the Emperor was fine with it, it was only toward the Heresy when Curze was called back for punishment. Aside from striking Dorn, there is also the possibility that Curze's campaign were becoming more and more violent and deranged as he was losing it and the legion was becoming full of murderers. He might have been called because he was taking the terrorize to death thing up to eleven. It's a thought.

Magnus was arrogant and full of too much pride. The whole benevolent spirits in the Warp thing made me cringe when I read it since my reaction was (Oh, no. Don't trust them, they're Tzeentch deamons) but Magnus had no way of knowing that. I think that if the Emperor did tell him there were 4 sentient beings with the powers of a god and legion of servants in the Warp, Magnus would have been confident that he could handle them and would have sought them out because he would have been curious.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

BlackGuard said:


> He probably thought his super-creations weren't emotionally retarded themselves and had maturity beyond that of a sixteen-year-old boy.


This I think was the main problem. They matured so quickly physically that their emotional maturity never had a chance to catch up.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> He could've rebuked Lorgar less harshly. I believe a less harsh rebuke would've been more effective. The Emperor's tactless approach had the opposite effect. He could've tried to win over a wayward son with a bit of tact. Instead, he ended up bitchslapping Lorgar into the dirt in front of Guilliman...really, that was the Emperor's best idea?


I don't think he could have rebuked Lorgar less harshly. Firstly, from the Emperor's perspective the destruction of Monarchia was hardly barbaric; the XIII evacuated the city and there would have been minimal civilian casualties. All the Emperor really did was destroy a (largely) uninhabited city, gather the XVII Legion to inform them of their failure, and attach a contingent of Custodians to monitor the XVII's reincorporation into the Great Crusade. Lorgar's reaction (taking the Pilgrimage) was obviously unexpected, on the face of things Lorgar and the Word Bearers rejoined the Great Crusade and outperformed every other Legion (even the Luna Wolves, Dark Angels and Imperial Fists) in the latter stages of the Great Crusade, so from the Emperor's perspective: job done.

The Emperor had to issue a strong public show of purpose, had the Emperor simply had a quiet word with Lorgar on the side, would Lorgar have listened? Would the Emperor's decree have passed down to Lorgar's Legion effectively without such a public display? Probably not. Lorgar was the one in the wrong, he was the one contradicting the Emperor's Imperial Truth and threatening the new order, he was the one Primarch who had failed in his purpose, why should the Emperor simply had a quiet word with him? Lorgar deserved to be humbled.



MontytheMighty said:


> Again, I don't see why the Emperor likes to keep his sons ignorant. I suppose you could argue it's a necessary ignorance for the Imperium's good...but really? Horus feels abandoned. He's the Emperor's favoured son. Give him a bit of information. Heck, give him false/partially false information...as long as Horus doesn't feel neglected by his father.


Perhaps he deemed his project on Terra to be too precious to trust more people than it was necessary to. After all, Chaos had exposed and 'abducted' the Primarchs, who knows how far each one was effected. Horus may have unwittingly gave such information to the wrong people (Erebus?) which could have had grave consequences.

Besides that, why should the Emperor have thought Horus would have felt abandoned? As I said, Horus had taken "overall strategic command" of the Great Crusade on several occasions before and a reunion between the two would have obviously been inevitable at some point. Horus himself says to Loken in _Horus Rising_ that he realised the grave importance of the Emperor's task (he believed the Emperor was trying to unlock the secrets of the warp: roughly accurate), there for countless other reasons for Horus's fall beyond feelings of abandonment, in the grand scheme of things you could even argue such feelings were only a minor part in Horus's fall from grace.



MontytheMighty said:


> Off the top of my head: perhaps explain to Magnus why he should not try to contact the Emperor telepathically (at least a partial explanation...i.e. the consquences to the Imperium of disobeying that order). Again, the Emperor loves to keep his sons in the dark. Look how that turns out.


IIRC Magnus was aware of the webway and of the Emperor's intentions with it. He would also have been aware of the delicate nature of the Emperor's project. He shouldn't have needed a reason not to contact the Emperor psychically, especially following Nikaea.



MontytheMighty said:


> Curze was performing his role perfectly. The Emperor needed people who wouldn't flinch at the prospect of doing dirty jobs (Russ was one of them). The Emperor could've shown a bit of appreciation. Instead he seemed to have driven Curze farther away from him.


What appreciation did he show the Wolves? Was it more than he shown the World Eaters or Night Lords? Perhaps. But, whilst Curze believed (perhaps deluded himself into believing) that he was performing the Emperor's will, who is to say that is true? It seems evident that the Night Lords overstepped the bounds on numerous occasions, hence Curze's arrest for deportation to Terra and subsequent attack on Rogal Dorn (and the Phoenix Guard) and flight into exile.



Chompy Bits said:


> This I think was the main problem. They matured so quickly physically that their emotional maturity never had a chance to catch up.


Personally, I think their emotional capacity was solely due to nurture rather than nature. The Primarchs were products of their homeworlds, if they had been raised by the Emperor on Terra it is quite probable they would have been much more stable individuals.


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## dickie bell (Jul 8, 2012)

i when i read the HH books i can't help but have a chuckle at how dysfunctional the emperor and primarchs can be with each other , i believe the whole creation of the primarchs may have been a diversionary tactic by the emperor to keep the chaos gods distracted while he completed the webway project , the primarchs all seem to have had opposites to each other where tensions would always arise , maybe he knew the heresy was going happen which would wipe out half of the primarchs and future potential rivals and the others appear to be missing and presumably out of reach of making any impact on the future plans of the emperor , remember there are 2 primarchs missing II & XI who knows what they did to be dealt with that way , one or both may have a part to play yet in the future maybe the chaos gods were correct and the emperor does want to be a god if he reappears in the 40k universe the whole imperium believe he is a god not a bad job if you can get it eh! thousands of space marines at your beck and call with no pesky primarchs to cause problems , i agree magnus would probably have been locked into the throne at some point to power it if he hadn't destroyed it and ruined the emperors plans . anyway i have rambled on enough and i hope it all makes a little sense


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Personally, I think their emotional capacity was solely due to nurture rather than nature. The Primarchs were products of their homeworlds, if they had been raised by the Emperor on Terra it is quite probable they would have been much more stable individuals.


I do agree with this as well. The fact that their emotional development happened under the watch of regular humans meant that they inherited the same emotional flaws inherent in normal humans. Not quite the superior perfect beings the Emperor had in mind. That's why I personally think the primarchs were all flawed from the moment of abduction. It really was the perfect way for chaos to defeat the Emperor by using humanity's own weaknesses to influence and shape its greatest beings. 

What I meant to go in line with this was, they were nurtured by humans and thus picked up their flaws. But even a normal human has several years to mature to adulthood and learn to control themselves better. The primarchs didn't even have that luxury, rapidly maturing as they did. Add in the fact that they are virtual demigods with no equals other than each other and the role the Emperor set for them and those flaws that would possibly be manageable in humans take on far greater and more troubling and dangerous proportions.


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## Vociferous Noun (Aug 5, 2012)

I've always viewed the Emperor as being close to the conceptual embodiment of Nietzche's "Superman". In brief; someone who wasn't concerned with individual morality, but the body-whole.

He's a grand visionist who's only concern is trying to keep humanity from falling into the clutches of Chaos. The Greater Good is his paradigm. "Petty" individual concerns don't matter to him, which of course can make him look like a cruel bastard.

He was required to be cruel.


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## Apostle (Jun 29, 2012)

The one I do agree with is Angron. The Emperor was a fool to take Angron away from his people on the battlefield. I have no doubt Angron simply never liked the Emperor, probably hated him more than any Primarch. Even when he was 'loyal'

I can also see a little bit with the Lorgar disciplinary action. He did not have to use Guilliman as the instrument to bring Malchador to bitch him out. I mean the Emperor just did not have a lot of tact. Just let him believe your some kind of God you moron! (IMO) I mean now half the Imperium believes, or claims to believe he is anyway. The Emperor's foresight is either flawed, or he knew these things would happen anyway.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

I think one issue the Emperor had was the challenge with foresight: at the time you perform an act, it could appear to be the exact combination needed to correct whatever problem you see coming down the pike. Unfortunately, your act in itself changes the nature of the future, so you're left with the consequences and then have to react. The Emperor is trying to thread a galactic needle, knowing as has been implied, that his target is infinitessimally small with little room for error... then having galactic-scale beings on the other side of the board trying to knock you off kilter at every turn.

I also like BlackGuard's observation... superbeings that never moved past being unruly teens. On the other hand, the Primarchs did have several hundred years under their belt by the time the HH came along, how long should the Emperor have waited for these over-hyped 'failures to launch'?


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## Popenfresh (Aug 20, 2012)

Being hugely powerful and intelligent are hardly things that make you perfect. How I see it, people need to be subjugated to life's miseries and overcome their flaws in order to learn and grow into something respectable. If you're just handed godlike powers without having done a single thing to have earned them you're bound to become a failure. The Emperor was quite stupid IMO for failing to foresee this.

The Emperor created the Imperial administratum to make people learn to govern themselves without the aid of "godlike" being like himself. Thus, the Primarchs being raised by humans would therefore actually be a perfect intermediary step for his plan. Yet he failed to utilizes this in any way. 

I also think the argument that a such a perfect and magnificent being can't relate to ordinary humans is extremely fallacious. Even if he can't emotionally connect with people's feelings he's spend more than enough time to be able to rationally deduce what people are feeling. That's why most psychopaths are actually quite good at blending in.

As such the Emperor failed on every level conceivable. 
He failed to create the perfect being he originally meant to
He failed to utilize the Primarch's "flawed" and human qualities as a means to better relate to mankind in general.

It's quite clear that the Emperor was nothing more than an ordinarily smuck like you and me with the same emotional flaws. He just had lots of knowledge and godlike powers (something he too was born with and didn't even had to earn). He's actually quite a pathetic figure if you think about it. Even whilst having unfathomably powers he still made the same mistakes we do, which actually makes him less than ordinary human beings since they actually have an excuse for their failures.


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