# The Future of the Imperium



## Regent of Ultramar (Jun 10, 2012)

I was just wondering, given the current momentum of misery for the Imperium, how long should it take for them to collapse utterly? This is not counting the old guy on the throne croaking or anything freaky like that. How long until the onslaught of Tyranids, Orks, and the Black Legion and Co. overwhelm the Ultrasmurfs?

I guess the real question is, can the Imperium survive for very much longer unless a miracle (Emperor wakes up and becomes a god or something) occurs to save them?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I give it a few centuries at most. 

One thing I know for sure, the Imperium cannot survive indefinitely on its own strength.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I don't think it will ever fall, otherwise the game would fall  

I think it's more likely an event happens where acceptable stalemate occurs, such as the Emperor ascends to godhood, makes the astronomican permanent without the need of psykers being fed and the Emperor takes part in the war in the warp between the other four gods and the Emperor is bolstered by his loyal subjects just as the chaos gods are bolstered by traitors, heretics etc.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

I would say yes, the Imperium can survive for a few more thousand years. Whilst the Imperium is losing planets it's also constantly settling or reclaiming more. The Imperium wins the majority of it's wars, certainly in the long term. 

The only reason its in such a sorry state is the fact that all these threats are assailing the Imperium at once. Individually any one of them could be dealt with, it's the overwhelming hostile galaxy which is the problem. Even then they've managed to establish a status quo. The Imperium's situation is not improving but it's not rapidly devolving either. 

It hasn't exhausted it's resources yet, not summoned the last of it's strength. The Imperium's not in a position where every soldier is committed to it's wars, where every planet is embroiled in conflict. They're not running out of resources, men, ships or chapters. The majority of its worlds simply exist, living out the mundane. It's the unlucky few (on a relative scale) which are invaded, lost or at war. Most simply contribute their tithes and go on with living. 

That said 6th ed does seem to have ramped up the desperation factor and focused on the decline of mankind. So perhaps subsequent fluff will paint a very bleak picture indeed.


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

I like the point of view that the tyranids are fleeing from something larger and even more deadly, and are trying to escape through our galaxy. Perhaps it would give a reason for all the races to gang up together (except chaos, orks and necrons :/ ) seeing as the hive-mind is capable of sentient thought......


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## Regent of Ultramar (Jun 10, 2012)

It seems to me that they'll go on for a century or two. Since Abaddon broke through into Cadia the Imperium is going to throw people and warships at him. If they do that, something might bite them at the opposite end of the galaxy, such as a truly gigantic Hive Fleet that would sweep all before it. 

If that happened, ships would be thrown at that. Would a perfect storm consisting of Abaddon breaking through the Imperial Navy, a truly monstrous Hive Fleet, and Ork mischief speed it up any? Or is that just the normal crap the Imperial Guard has to stomach?


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

The Imperium will fall unless it gets a huge financial bailout for its shoddy financial systems and gross overspending by the lords of terra, Abbadon is willing to lend the cash but has a few unsavory conditions attached!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Regent of Ultramar (Jun 10, 2012)

Seems legit, Napoleon.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

now everyone here is talking about the external threats, which is great and all but what really threatens the imperium however is the fact that the Emperor can no longer power the astronomican (his Golden throne is failing and the Mechanicum don't possess the know how to fix it), according to the codex, already parts of the galaxy, for instance parts of the Ultramarine area is already inaccessible to the emperors light, all over the galaxy the emperors light is waning, his death i assume will start to...gather momentum, he's trying his best to power it, right now he is barely gripping on, but soon it will be in free fall, then entire sectors of the Galaxy will be blind, with no warp travel Abaddon will destroy the Cadian gate due to the afct there are no reinforcements. 

Secondly, the 13th black crusade, is the first black crusade with the primary objective of actually destroying the imperium, Abaddons forces have captured 3 black stone fortresses and he has amassed a massive army, previous solitary traitors (those with their own individual plans) who previously never even bothered to help Abaddon such as the Night lords have banded together to aid him.

Various other chapters such as the Blood Angels are currently under attack by both the tyranids (a splinter of hive fleet leviathan) and a khronate force lead by a blood thirster.


i also disagree Rems, according to the grey knights omnibus the imperium has sent every single iota of man power that it can spare , they are already stretched incredibly thin, and with the approach of the Tyranids to the eastern front the largest group of chapters (the Ultramarines and their successors) will be indisposed.

according to the novel Mechanicum, The book that contained a piece of the Void dragons sentience was stolen, the repercussions of that were said to become evident after 10,000 years i.e. during 40k.


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## Lemanruss27 (Feb 16, 2012)

The general lack of faith trough this topic, in the allmighty God-Emperor,and the Imperium in-general,is appalling,and aboveall highly heretical :biggrin:


The Imperium shall never fall,In Dedicato Imperatum Ultra Articulo Mortis


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

If only I was , I'd get Ireland fixed at least!! they should clone him in 40k give him an army and watch him take names, Guillman has nothing on le petit corporal!!!


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## Regent of Ultramar (Jun 10, 2012)

Lost&Damned said:


> now everyone here is talking about the external threats, which is great and all but what really threatens the imperium however is the fact that the Emperor can no longer power the astronomican (his Golden throne is failing and the Mechanicum don't possess the know how to fix it), according to the codex, already parts of the galaxy, for instance parts of the Ultramarine area is already inaccessible to the emperors light, all over the galaxy the emperors light is waning, his death i assume will start to...gather momentum, he's trying his best to power it, right now he is barely gripping on, but soon it will be in free fall, then entire sectors of the Galaxy will be blind, with no warp travel Abaddon will destroy the Cadian gate due to the afct there are no reinforcements.


So what you're saying is... the Emperor is the key to everything then. (Duh, I guess.) But also, you mean to say that if the corruption deepens, and someone pulls a Vandire, it's worse than any external threat?


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

no, i mean his throne is failing, its mechanisms are falling apart, no one knows how to fix it, i.e. his life support fails, he finally actually dies, warp travel becomes impossible, it suddenly becomes every planet for himself, the many xenos attack and destroy everything, Abaddon marches to Terra relatively unopposed.

The imperium can hold back xenos and chaos for many more years, but the pivotal and fundamental thing that ensures the imperiums survival is the Emperor, if he fails everything fails, he is failling.

But i completely agree with LemanRuss, The Emperor protects.
Also theres the fact that the Emperor, through Malcador left something (The Terminus decree) on the Grey Knights homeworld, something only the supreme grand master of the Grey knights can use, the ultimate sanction, to be used when all hope is lost, we dont know what it is, but its linked to the Golden throne.


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## Kelann08 (Nov 22, 2011)

Lemanruss27 said:


> The general lack of faith trough this topic, in the allmighty God-Emperor,and the Imperium in-general,is appalling,and aboveall highly heretical


This is Heresy....Online. :shok: :victory:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

the Eldar will never let the imperium fall, thats all you need to know. Everything is progressing as planned


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

@Lost and the Damned

First off the Emperor's death won't make warp travel impossible. More difficult and dangerous yes but not impossible. So rather than a complete halt of intergalactic travel what you would likely see is the formation of small, independent empires organized around key imperial sectors. 

We also don't know what will happen when the Emperor dies. (If he dies at all. We don't know just what is wrong with the throne, how serious the fault is or even if the throne has self repair capabilities). He may ascend and become a new god, reincarnate, regenerate or simply die. 

Abaddon captured 2 Blackstones at the end of the Gothic War and their current fates are unknown. The last we saw of them one was under assault from a combined Imperial and Eldar fleet, then Necrons showed up to destroy it whilst Eldrad boarded it. We have no idea what happened to them. 

The 13th Black Crusade itself was stopped. The Imperium rallied and the Imperial Fleet regained space superiority. The Chaos held worlds are isolated and will fall in time. Cadia still stands, the Gate has not been broken. 

The forces of chaos are smaller than those of the Imperium. They have less Space Marines, human soldiers and war machines. They literally can't win a battle of attrition with the Imperium and have less capacity to rebuild their forces. 

I agree though that the Emperor's fate is incredibly significant.


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## Lemanruss27 (Feb 16, 2012)

Kelann08 said:


> This is Heresy....Online. :shok: :victory:




For now,Soon all loyalists on this forum will unite and launch an unstopable crusade to rename this forum LOYALISTS-ONLINE:biggrin:


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## Regent of Ultramar (Jun 10, 2012)

I thought that the Emperor's only purpose was to keep the Astronomican going, nothing more. I didn't know he made the las round miss the odd Guardsman who prayed to him. Although, if the Emperor dies and everybody knows about it, it's a demoralizing factor. A huge one. So he's doubly important then?


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## Lemanruss27 (Feb 16, 2012)

Regent of Ultramar said:


> Although, if the Emperor dies and everybody knows about it, it's a demoralizing factor. A huge one. So he's doubly important then?




Quite possibly the only scenario in which the Imperium would fall,Not a single Loylist,be they SM-s or Gurdsmen,particulary common citizens would survive such a crushing event.


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## Regent of Ultramar (Jun 10, 2012)

And since the cute throne is failing, it must be very possible (inevitable really) that he'll die. The Inquisitorial agents would be all over it also to prevent the spread of it, but could the Holy Ordos really stop the end of the Imperium? No, they wouldn't be able to.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

if the Emperor dies, Terra itself will also be swallowed by the warp, so all the different aspects of the adeptus terra are rendered.....well they're in oblivion.He is also the only thing stopping the immaterium from engulfing the materium.

and while its true, that for sometime small segregated parts of the imperium would be able to stick together, warp travel without the emperor is indeed practically impossible, while Humanity might survive (until some xenos or a chaos marine decides otherwise, or even if the fall prey to simple things like inner strife and famine) the imperium will be shattered.

and according to the lexicancum and the codex, the mechanisms have indeed malfunctioned and that is far beyond the abilities of the mechanicus to fix it, i should also point out as the millennia have passed by it has grown steadily more damaged, requiring more and more psykers every year to maintain the distance the beacon requires to envelope the galaxy.


According to the codexes i have read, forgive me if they are perhaps outdated, the 13th black crusade is still ongoing, Eldrad was also killed personally by slaanesh and again accoding to the lexicanum Abbadon is still in control of two blackstone fortresses.

And though its true that there are more loyalist space marines than Traitor, the traitors still have an infinite ammount of cannon fodder, aswell as the immortal demons, bloodthirsters, lords of change and space marines who have turned into demons.
couple this with the fact, like you said earlier the Imperium is being attacked on all fronts, they still arent equal, the imperium still has the upper hand, though with the waning of the emperors power that will change.

and @bitsandkits, the nighlords have decided to personally target the eldar of craftworld Ulthwe and with the death of Eldrad their demise seems to me as being pretty much guaranteed


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## Regent of Ultramar (Jun 10, 2012)

The Imperium is doomed in a few centuries or a couple thousand years. It would be a dark age (not the dark age of technology) and someone would need to fill the power vacuum. I'd say the SM fools might try to forge some new human empire, but it'd collapse quickly.


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## Lemanruss27 (Feb 16, 2012)

Regent of Ultramar said:


> Inquisitorial agents would be all over it also to prevent the spread of it, but could the Holy Ordos really stop the end of the Imperium? No, they wouldn't be able to.




There s NO chance in Hell.......khm,warp:biggrin:they would be abble to contain somthing like that,id say that the scenario:Empy ascends to God-Hod,is the only one(in the long-term event at least)that can prevent the fall of the Imperium.


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## OMNOMNOMIVORE (May 31, 2012)

the imperium already is collapsing...the game is based on the fact that new forces are taking over the galaxy (or just really old ones that have come back). in essence, the imperium wil decisively fall if one of four things happens:
1. the void dragon wakes up, blows up mars, and fucks up the emperors shit (emperor dies).
2. abbadon actually executes a successful black crusade, and fucks up the emperor's shit (emperor dies)
3. the emperor dies due to the adeptus mechanicus being too pants on head dumb enough to fix his throne/make a new one.
4. multiple tyranid hive fleets converge on the galaxy simultaneously, eating everything, and, consequently fucking up the emperor's shit (emperor's psychic essence is absorbed by a zoanthrope/swarmlord, causing everything currently in the warp to spontaneously combust).

these are not the only things that would destroy them, but they are the most likely to happen before the end of the 42nd millenium.

pretty much the only way anybody in the galaxy (including the chaos gods) will survive is if the tyranids are defeated on such a scale that every trace of the hive mind is obliterated. this, of course, is ridiculously unlikely, as for all we know, the galaxy the imperium occupies may be the only one left without tyranids having eaten it. scary shit.

pretty much the only way anybody in the imperium will survive is by turning to chaos. and being a daemon prince isnt exactly surviving, especially if all of the surviving c'tan go even more bat shit insane and go and screw over the chaos gods.

so the imperium is pretty much doomed, but GW will never actually have them collapse in the fluff, as this eliminates half the source of their profit from the game.




bitsandkits said:


> the Eldar will never let the imperium fall, thats all you need to know. Everything is progressing as planned


i smell tzeenech


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## Corporal Punishment 69 (Jul 8, 2012)

What of starchild? Illuminati? If Emperor dies his sons come back, take over like in Ian Watson books. Emperor never wanted to sit on throne so long (should have eaten one of my curry) and was supposed to die, but inquisitors kept him there. Now when he die can be new god, many peoples beleives in him, he makes powerful god and fuck all chaos up the eye of terror!! Also, if tyranids are running from big nasty, maybe is friendly to Imperium, maybe is missing legion with living primarch, maybe is slann with armies of zoats, maybe is very angry gnomes with death-star, who knows?


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

The nids are running from the Tax Man fact!!


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## Regent of Ultramar (Jun 10, 2012)

Tax man must be a badass then.


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## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Unless Game work shop is about to go bankrupt. I don't think the Imperium will fall. If the Imperium does fall they have to re-work the table top game. FLuff wise every story has an ending. 

If anything we have what we have today. A Imperium slowly grinding down maybe take thousands of years or more and ultimately a stalemate with all the enemies. 

I can see the Tau maybe getting little larger and necrons taking back some planets. Tyranids eating up other planets but all of them are not allies with Chaos and would keep a certain balance with each other. 

Orks justing being orks. Imperium I don't will fall but lose some planets and win some back. It's just constant war. Which is what game shop wants to make money.


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## Regent of Ultramar (Jun 10, 2012)

Also why for people who like closure or endings it's a little aggravating.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Thing is, the "unless GW goes bankrupt" reason doesn't hold water. The calendar has been on 40,999 for years now. It's not like they've been casually adjusting the timeline. The product seems to be one wherein the "current timeline" is set at the Imperium's 11th hour but much of the emphasis is placed on past events (Wars for Armageddon, variety of Imperial Armour campaigns, etc.).

Could the Imperium survive? Sure, at least until the Emperor dies. But even then, it's a clumsy theocracy whose key tenets are - along with all the threats it's facing - the biggest reason why it's failing. The first two times Abaddon really tried to win it all the Imperium barely stopped him, but now they also face threats they never had to deal with before. The Necrons and the Tyranids, for istance, are showing up in ever-increasing numbers.


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## LongfangFenrika93 (Jan 22, 2012)

Think it would be better to list all the shitty things that are arrayed against the Imperium and are just waiting to piss all over it, 

1. Vast amounts of Xenos everywhere. Like more than any other time it seems. Tyranids are literally skimming the Galaxy and the Imperium is struggling. Tau are getting bolder, and at the rate they are going the Imperiums decline will just strengthen them (assuming they don't get munched by the tyranids!). Necrons are waiting to pounce it seems like. Basically the Tyranids are the biggies there. 

2. The traitors sound like they are getting bolder. Taking Cadia and what not, unless some infighting broke out, it would seem like Abbadon's forces will either spill out into the Imperium or build momentum and fight towards Terra.

3. If the traitors start doing something then cults and rebellions are going to spread like wildfire.

4. The fucking failure of the Golden Throne we keep hearing about. That just seems like a bit of a kick in-while-your-down-situation. That is going to fail at one point so however long that takes, then the Imperium will just stop. The Astronomican will fail if it doesn't fail before that.

5. ^the Astronomican's dribbling failure will literally rip the heart out of the Imperium slowly as much as the death of the Emperor I think. 

6. Void Dragon's awakening, as said in Mechanicum, whether that is true or not the Necrons are eventually going to attempt to get that guy out. (Whatever the Void Dragon is).


Please add if I've missed anything haha. Literraly can't think of anything going right for the Imperium. Apart from that vague horrible hope of Mr Illuminati and the Sensei-Kids, coupled with the Star-Child, the Imperium sounds like its out of cards, and sleeves. 

The Terminus Decree, in my opinion, is nothing more than a big 'fuck it' button that just ends the Imperium with a bang. 

So all in all, a thousand years maybe? Big one for me is the Golden Throne failure. But then that begs the question what do you class the Imperium as? Does it end with the loss of Terra and half of the worlds it holds? or is it when the last human world falls? That is a whole other debate.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Judging by what I know of 40k, a fuck long time still. Hell, the Eldar have been going extinct for the last 10k years and they're still around in large enough numbers to operate on a galactic level. 

And the Imperium haven't even had their "Fall" yet. Well, unless you view the "Fall" of the Imperium as the end of the Heresy where the Emperor was crippled.


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