# Dark Elf Magic Items



## Masked Jackal

Dark Elf Magic Item Reviews: 

When equipping characters (Or giving standards or items to a unit), there is some consideration as to what units to put them in, what mount to give them, and their general equipment, but far above that in importance is what magic items you give them. This is no less important for Dark Elves, and perhaps even more important than for others, as we're too fragile to be able to kick ass without something to protect us. In addition, I've seen a lot of people taking terrible items in lists, and hopefully this can mitigate that a bit, or more realistically, give me something to link back to when they ask what would be good to take.

For quick reference, I'll give each of the items a letter grade. A's are practically auto-takes, some of them probably broken. B's are excellent, though they might be situational or not too crazy in their performance. C's are decent items, but are not overly exceptional, or otherwise quite situational. D's are subpar, usually not making their points back, except in a few situations. F's are items you should never take, as they just tack on points.

Enchanted Items: 

Deathmask: Terror used to be a significant force in Fantasy, but without the bubble of leadership tests, it loses most of its effectiveness. Furthermore, in the new rulebook, there's a cheaper equivalent. Don't ever take this. 
F

Hydra's Teeth: This item has a very cool concept, but unfortunately falls flat because of its high cost. You have to roll to hit for each of the teeth, you have to roll to hit with WS2, roll to wound with S3. At the end of it, you're killing on average about 2 or 3 T3 5+ armor save guys. Even assuming you're killing something super-expensive but fragile like other Elves, you aren't likely to make your points back. Don't use this. 
F

Crystal of Midnight: Another cool concept, but falls flat for a very similar reason as the Hydras Teeth. It fails to do much after all the rolls. 35 points is what most people spend for an extra level, giving them +1 to cast along with another spell. Sure, you force the enemy to roll 3d6 for their leadership, but that still leaves a good chance they'll pass, you can't determine the spell, and if they're in range of a BSB, they can reroll the test, almost assuring they'll pass it. There might be a limited use in preventing the enemy from uber-spelling with level 1 wizards, but that's marginal. 
D

Black Dragon Egg: And finally, we get to the good stuff. T6 and a breath-weapon are great for 30 points, especially when it's an excellent breath-weapon like Noxious Breath, which hits at S4. This also benefits from no partials, and since it is one-use anyways, you aren't hurt by breath weapons being one-use anyways. To top it all off, the T6 is excellent on a flying Supreme Sorceress, or a Dreadlord who's starting to run low on wounds. Can also be opened up in combat to swing the tide at a critical moment. Either way, it is probable it will pay for itself just on the breath-weapon. 
A

Potion of Strength: Another one-off item, but this one is of much more limited use. +3 strength for a turn sounds pretty great, but at 30 points (Higher than the core rulebook), it isn't useful for much other than one-off assassination attempts, which Assassins are better at. For a Dreadlord, there's other stuff you can take that would make you likely to either survive or kill in a tough challenge, and for a Master this is damn near all your points allowance. Still, having something there to kill a monster or hero when necessary can be useful. 
C

Gem of Nightmares: Similar thoughts as to Deathmask, and a slightly more expensive equivalent in the rulebook that isn't one-use-only. 
F

The Guiding Eye: This was formerly almost useless, but now it has some merit. A Sorceress who's hiding out in a large Repeater Crossbowmen unit will almost certainly have 25 points leftover in magic allowance, and with more shots, both from two ranks firing and the larger unit, it is quite possible to make it's points back, especially if you open up at the right time. Even better, you can decide whether to use it after you've rolled to hit, because of the new FAQ, taking guessing out of the equation. Note that this is best as I mentioned, if you have a Sorceress in Repeater Crossbowmen. Other characters tend to take up points and make this not worth it. 
B

Magic Weapons: 

Executioner's Axe: At first glance, this weapon seems quite good. Double the enemy's toughness in strength and causing D3 wounds basically makes your character awesome against any monster or character, but there's just one problem. The price-tag. 80 points means that only a Dreadlord can take it, and it leaves almost no points for defensive items to keep him from being a flashing-neon target saying 'Hit me!' This is only a source of free points for your enemy. 
F

Sword of Ruin: A much more decent magic item than the last, as it leaves enough for defense, but there is one problem. You're still a S4 elf, and ignoring armor saves isn't really enough to mitigate that fact. Additionally, against rank-and-file, you're unlikely to get a benefit. There are other, better options for dealing with these, but this item is useful for cutting down characters or knights. 
C

Web of Shadows: It is hard for me to describe just how useless this item is. This item is one-use-only, and it's effect, 2d6 S3 hits, is actually *worse* than just using a regular hand-weapon. It doesn't even kill more than one model! Never take this. 
F

Chillblade: While marginally more useful than Web of Shadows, this suffers from being a worse version of Sword of Ruin. No matter the Toughness, you will wound less than with S4. Don't take this. 
F

Heartseeker: Finally getting to the better stuff, Heartseeker is actually a decent item. Sure, one part of it, rerolling to hit, is redundant in the first round of combat due to Hatred, but after that, it adds some long-term reliability to whoever takes it. However, a Dreadlord with it generally will want something to provide him a better punch to counter monsters and characters, and a Master will be spending a bit much for his points allowance. 
C

Hydra Blade: Sort of an opposite to Heartseeker, instead of adding reliability, this adds to potential damage, allowing you to kill more R&F models, or get a greater chance of nailing a character or monster. However, it suffers from the same problems. 
C

Caledors Bane: This is of limited use. 35 points for an item that is practically one-use-only, and 5 points more expensive than the Potion of Strength for the ability ignore Scaly Skin saving throws, which won't ever be needed when you're S7 on the charge. 
F

Dagger of Hotek: See Heartseeker, except 5 points less, only providing rerolls because of the ASF, and giving you an AHW. Not really worth it for the same reasons and because Heartseeker's better. 
D

Lifetaker: If you are taking a level 2 sorceress with Tome of Furion, or a Supreme Sorceress somewhere she won't be stuck into battle, this is an excellent item to take. 3 shots hitting on a 2+ at S4 will probably make back its points in a few shooting phases, and it blends well with the usual hiding spots for these girls. 
B

Crimson Death: Formerly an auto-take, this item has nonetheless fared well. S6 unomodifiable is very good for offense, and though it does take two hands that isn't too much of a restriction. Still, it is superseded by the next item, which has gained a lot with the new edition. However, it can give a Black-Guard champion a chance at character-killing without precluding the use of the next item on someone more important. 
B

Whip of Agony: This is probably the best offensive item in the Dark Elf book at this point, it's combined effects bringing up to about twice its points value in usefulness. S5 is a perfect medium for taking on anything, and the armor-piercing, extra attack from Errata, and combination with a shield make this item perfect, whether you're giving a Master or Champion some punch, or need something to take advantage of your hard-to-kill Dreadlord. 
A

Soul-Render: Cheap, but sort of bad, when you consider that getting a regular great weapon is 4/6 points. Still, armor-piercing and magical attacks are of some note. Also can be combined with items in the BRB for a good champion build. 
C

Magic Armor: 

Armor of Living Death: As with most other highly expensive items in this army book, this item suffers from not having as good an effect as cheaper items. +1T and +1W is decent, but at this price it precludes other forms of protection. The Armor of Eternal Servitude doubles the survival rate of a Dreadlord, basically equivalent to getting 3 extra wounds for 35 points (40 with the Dragonbane Gem combo.) Get something else that has more of an effect. However, if you do take it, put the Dreadlord on a Cold One so stupidity isn't an issue and you can have T4 1+ armor save against rank and file. 
C

Armor of Eternal Servitude: This item is pure excellence for protecting a combat character. As mentioned above it doubles the surival rate, and when combined with the 5-point Dragon-bane gem you'll get a 2+ ward save against those pesky flaming attacks that go through your regen. For reference, a 4+ ward save, which doesn't get the same effect against flaming attacks is 50 points for armor in the core rulebook. 
A

Cloak of Hag Graef: This item is situational, but in these situations it is well worth its points. On a character within a unit, it is practically useless, as the halving of strength is only applied to ranged attacks, but on a solo Master or Dreadlord, preferably on a Dark Pegasus, it shines. It's easy to get a 1+ armor save while mounted, and the worst armor save you'll get against shooting is a 3+. Stick this on a character and start hunting down warmachines and small ranged units. 
B

Armor of Darkness: Easy way to get cheap protection on a footed character, combine with Pendant of Khaeleth for hilarity. If not used elsewhere it can be put on a Black-Guard champion to withstand challenges. 
B

Shield of Ghrond: A decent item, but there are far better ways to protect oneself than reducing the strength of incoming attacks. Still, can have some use in insuring a good armor save against strong attacks. 
C

Blood Armor: The cheapest armor in the book, this is going to be going on combat masters. Full mundane armor on foot will get you a 3+ in close-combat, and this will likely net you a 1+ after a round of combat. This allows you to use the extra 10 points you'd have from not taking the Armor of Darkness in more offensive capability. Can also be put on a champion for added protection. 
B

Talismans: 

Black Amulet: Expensive, expensive, expensive. On the plus side, it does provide a decent effect. Essentially, you're paying 25 points for the return wounds, of which there will be an average of three. Against a unit this has minimal effect, but when countering other characters, or monsters, these three wounds will have a much more significant effect, and can be the difference between killing or partially wounding a character. There can be better uses for these points, but it gives the basic protection needed for a lord, and leaves enough points left for a decent magical weapon. Just don't give it to a Sorceress she shouldn't be in combat anyways. 
C

Ring of Darkness: While an expensive piece, this has great effect for the simple fact that it protects the whole unit the bearer is in, and protects them very well in close combat. While it is a bit too expensive to be reasonable on a hero, a Dreadlord will find this item invaluable. It leaves enough points for both additional protection and a good weapon on a lord. In a fragile elite army like Elves, enemy shooting is an easy way to whittle down numbers and make a huge points investment meaningless. Stick this lord in your death-star and you're ready to go. 
B

Pendant of Khaeleth: Best item in the book. Against S3 it functions as a 4+ ward save for 10 points cheaper, and against higher than that it turns into a 3+ or a 2+! The value of this should be obvious, but there is a small loophole, attacks that do not have a strength value bypass it completely. Still, this item is practically broken when combined with a 1+ armor save, the pendant taking all the high-strength attacks, and the armor taking all the low ones. Don't leave home without it. 
A

Seal of Ghrond: +1 dispel dice is always useful, especially if you have some magic items allowance left somewhere, such as on a Sorceress. 
B

Pearl of Infinite Blackness: Elves have good leadership, and a battle-standard will be keeping them from going anywhere anyways. Can be worth taking on a Sacrificial Dagger-bearer however, as they'll definitely be causing panic checks. Not really a spectacular effect for a whole unit, but at a decent price. 
C

Ring of Hotek: This used to be king amongst anti-magic, but with the new FAQ, its use has dropped dramatically. For those not in the know, the caster, not just the target, has to be within the 12" now. It still has a devastating effect, but practically the only time you'll be getting it is if you put in a PegaMaster and stick him right near the enemy wizard. 
C

Null Talisman: Same as core rulebook, in essence. Magic Resistance is weak now, but there are still a few things it can help against if you have extra points allowance and no idea what to do with it. 
C

Arcane Items: 

Black Staff: Not only expensive, but with the new rules for bound spells, its net benefit is one extra power-dice. Get the Darkstar Cloak, or even better, the Sacrificial Dagger instead. 
F

Focus Familiar: An easy, cheap way to get extra range for spells, especially useful for lores such as Death. This is best on a solo Sorceress, either on a Dark Steed or Dark Pegasus. On a level 2, the Dark Pegasus will give an extra wound, while on a level 4, you get just about the same maneuverability with less exposure to LoS.
B

Darkstar Cloak: +1 power-dice is an easy, good effect, and at a bargain too. In the core-rulebook a small chance to get another power-dice is 15 points. 
B 

Sacrificial Dagger: Similar to the Focused Rumination of Lizardmen, this item takes the Dark Elf magic phase above and beyond the limit by a good amount. On a Supreme Sorceress in a sacrificial spear unit, this item gives 3-4 extra power-dice per magic phase. In addition, it allows for a level of protection, as you can cast spells with a low casting value on one dice, rolling another dice only if needed. One downside is that you have to pay for a sacrificial unit, but this unit provides its own benefits for the points, including a good amount of cannon fodder to protect the Sorceress, and a body-guard for her should she be attacked. Excellent all-round. One point of contention can be the range of the spells, and potential targets however. If you have the Lore of Death or Lore of Fire, you're going to not have enough range or run out of targets, respectively. For hexes and augments though, you're practically guaranteed to have range, and most of the other lores are compatible with sitting just behind your battlelines.
A

Tome of Furion: One extra spell on a low-level Sorceress makes all the difference, increasing her chance to get the spell she wants by a good amount, and giving her more mileage, especially if you start throwing out Power of Darkness to get a huge amount of power-dice. 
B

Magic Standards: 

Banner of Nagarythe: Its effect isn't much, and it requires a huge points-investment for a BSB that likely will be easy to kill. You can put it on a Cauldron for some protection but that doesn't excuse its exorbitant cost. It can have some use in an army that relies on static-combat resolution heavily, but such an army would have to be themed around this banner. 
D

Hydra Banner: Another BSB-only choice, this one tends to have a greater effect. Because the elf using it would be way too easy to kill otherwise, it really is only worth it on a Cold One, but that's where this shines. An extra 6 or 7 attacks at S6 with hatred, and the same at S4 without the hatred, is actually a pretty good effect for 75 points. Just keep in mind that your BSB will be quite fragile regardless of having a 1+ armor save, and the enemy can get a good points bounty for defeating him. 
C

Dread Banner: Useless on a BSB, Black-Guard don't get any protection and negligible bonus from it, Cold One Knights already cause fear. 
F

Standard of Slaughter: This banner is only really useful for turning the tide of a large combat, and thus, the only unit it will realistically see use on is Cold One Knights. In this use, it is somewhat expensive, but can be used situationally to provide an overwhelming combat resolution when you outrank an opponent and can outstrip their Steadfast. 
C

Standard of Hag Graef: On a BSB, this has limited use in an Executioner's unit, however, the Death Hag will die within a couple rounds, disregarding tricks with Horde formation and denying challenges. It is similarly of limited use with Black-Guard, who already have a good initiative and re-roll to hit. Then, it falls to the Cold One Knights. With I6, this means they will be getting rerolls after the first round of combat with their WS5 S4 attacks, which is a good benefit for a large unit. In addition, this can make them go before characters, a useful boon in the first round of combat where their S6 lances could kill the characters quite handily. Further, the Cold Ones themselves benefit from this, even gaining rerolls against a few select opponents. Excellent choice, if only for that one unit. 
B

Sea Serpent Standard: Practically mandatory on Corsairs. 25 points for Frenzy is a steal, even on Repeater Handbows because of good leadership and likely rerolls from a BSB. 
B

Banner of Murder: Armor-piercing for 20 points less than the BRB? Yes, please. Put it on Witch Elves, or a Warriors block, and it'll work wonders. 
A

Banner of Cold Blood: Take the Gleaming Pennant on a small Cold One Knights unit instead. 10 points less and it will work only when you need it. D 

As with my other write-ups, this is open to criticism and discussion. Just post it in this thread for discussion.


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## Orochi

Right so, with your advice...

What would be the best equipment for my:
Lord (who will be on foot in a unit of BG)
Master w/BSB (again in BG)

Master used to carry the Ring of Midnight and Enchanted sheild
Lord used to carry The Whip, Armour of Servitude, Gem and 2 Talismans

Thoughts?


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## Masked Jackal

Orochi said:


> Right so, with your advice...
> 
> What would be the best equipment for my:
> Lord (who will be on foot in a unit of BG)
> Master w/BSB (again in BG)
> 
> Master used to carry the Ring of Midnight and Enchanted sheild
> Lord used to carry The Whip, Armour of Servitude, Gem and 2 Talismans
> 
> Thoughts?


The Dreadlord should definitely have the Ring of Darkness to reduce casualties from shooting, the biggest bane of Black-Guard there is. Giving him the Whip of Agony leaves you with 35 points left to spend, and the most obvious way to spend this is either the Armor of Eternal Servitude or the Pendant of Khaeleth, but this depends on whether you are needing the Pendant on a Sorceress. You can also switch out the Whip of Agony for Soul-Render, taking the Dragon-Helm for a 2+ armor save in close combat and protection against flaming attacks. The extra point of strength might even come in handy if you have something nasty to kill rather than R&F.

As for the Master, I'd really suggest you put him somewhere else, as all these targets in such a fragile unit as Black-Guard is just asking for trouble. However, Armor of Darkness and Crimson Death is a good setup. This doesn't provide protection against stuff that ignores armor saves, like the Lore of Death, however. An alternate setup is using a Talisman of Preservation if you haven't used it, and using a Beastmasters Scourge with a shield.


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## Vaz

Hm... I'd thought about a Black Guard unit with the Banner of Murder lead by a BSB with the Hydra Banner would be a good option - 3 S4 Rerollable -2 to armour saves one unit of 20mm bases is a damn decent investment, doubled up with an assassin or Killy Lord makes them work wonders.

And one thing that is always good fun is the Standard of Swiftness when combined with Elves. M6 Black Guard, or White Lions (especially when you're counting on a wood to block your flank) is damn scary.


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## olderplayer

Generally, a very good review and ratings. A few comments:

1. The null talisman are more valuable than thought. A valuable unit with the cauldron blessing benefits a lot from something with +1MR and a model with talisman of protection benefits a lot from the +1 or +2 MR in the unit due to damage from spells (lore of death, buboes) being one of the great threats to my lvl 4. 
2. The focus familiar with a lvl 4 or master on peg was one of my favorite set-ups in 7th edition. However, the Peg provides almost no LOS protection due to the model size and true LOS in 8th edition and no look out sir benefit in 8th edition due to troop type. The focus familiar is better used to extend the range of spells so as to allow the lvl 4 to extend the range and LOS of some spells that have shorter ranges and, yet, still stay out of range/out of LOS of certain magic and shooting attacks, and hide behind or in units or buildings or monuments while still attacks. I'm seeing a lot of Lizardmen Slanns with Becalming, and having the lvl 4 able to stay out of the becalming range while casting is a big plus. Due to faster combat and miscasts, sometimes it makes sense to skip the sac dagger and run the lvl 4 on a dark steed initially with cav and then stay within the 3" look out sir range but hidden. Then use the FF to extend the range of casting while limiting the exposure of the lvl 4. 
3. The standard of Hag Grief has two A to B level values/uses. If you run a larger COK unit with a mounted dreadlord (crown of command) and BSB (re-rollable AS and protection from flaming) both with 1+ AS, then the standard of Hag Grief is incredibly valuable in allowing re-rolls to hit and strikes first in combat (especially useful against opposing cav units and elite units where killng first does limit attacks back). Since some COK models wil likely be wounded and fail AS rolls, losing models reduces attacks, so getting to strike first each round adds value. It is very annoying to opponents to see the I2 cold ones hitting at S4 and adding to the damage. Against models with ASF (especially high elves), the ASF banner prevents them from striking first (ASF vs. ASF models strike simultaneously) and taking re-rolls to hit (esp. valuable against high elf armies). Even in a lesser unit or a black guard, the ability of a dreadlord or master to strike first and re-roll to hit and the ability of the unit to negate ASF and re-rolls to hit of opposing units can be very valuable.


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## Masked Jackal

Vaz said:


> Hm... I'd thought about a Black Guard unit with the Banner of Murder lead by a BSB with the Hydra Banner would be a good option - 3 S4 Rerollable -2 to armour saves one unit of 20mm bases is a damn decent investment, doubled up with an assassin or Killy Lord makes them work wonders.
> 
> And one thing that is always good fun is the Standard of Swiftness when combined with Elves. M6 Black Guard, or White Lions (especially when you're counting on a wood to block your flank) is damn scary.


The problem is mostly how fragile the BSB would be after the first round of combat. You're paying 75 points plus the cost for a Master with equipment, and the BSB is an essential part of the army. T3 3+ armor save W2 is actually quite easy to kill, especially since the enemy will only be wanting to send their best in to kill Black-Guard, who just mow through normal troops. On Cold One Knights however, the BSB will have a 1+ armor save, and due to the increased maneuverability of the knights you don't have to worry as much about your banner getting stuck in with something that will massacre him in the first round of combat.

And as for the banner, the movement banner is a decent choice, it gets the Black-Guard into combat that much quicker. I'd prefer to make them killier once they actually get into combat, but it's a matter of personal preference.



olderplayer said:


> Generally, a very good review and ratings. A few comments:
> 
> 1. The null talisman are more valuable than thought. A valuable unit with the cauldron blessing benefits a lot from something with +1MR and a model with talisman of protection benefits a lot from the +1 or +2 MR in the unit due to damage from spells (lore of death, buboes) being one of the great threats to my lvl 4.


A reasonable use for them, but I marked the Null Talisman down mostly for the fact that a lot of the new spells seem to bypass MR. Like I said, if you have some leftover points allowance, it can give protection. However, if a units a big enough investment that you're going to put MR and the Cauldron on it, chances are the enemy will be throwing something like Dwellers Below on it that just ignores these factors.


> 2. The focus familiar with a lvl 4 or master on peg was one of my favorite set-ups in 7th edition. However, the Peg provides almost no LOS protection due to the model size and true LOS in 8th edition and no look out sir benefit in 8th edition due to troop type. The focus familiar is better used to extend the range of spells so as to allow the lvl 4 to extend the range and LOS of some spells that have shorter ranges and, yet, still stay out of range/out of LOS of certain magic and shooting attacks, and hide behind or in units or buildings or monuments while still attacks. I'm seeing a lot of Lizardmen Slanns with Becalming, and having the lvl 4 able to stay out of the becalming range while casting is a big plus. Due to faster combat and miscasts, sometimes it makes sense to skip the sac dagger and run the lvl 4 on a dark steed initially with cav and then stay within the 3" look out sir range but hidden. Then use the FF to extend the range of casting while limiting the exposure of the lvl 4.


I'm guessing we're playing with entirely different terrain most of the time here. Usually there are buildings, other units, and such to hide behind. Still, some good points. On dropping the Dagger, it all depends on what lore you're running. With something like the Lore of Shadow, you can just hide your Sorceress behind whatever combats are going on, and depending on what spells you get, you can do the same with the Lore of Dark or Metal.


> 3. The standard of Hag Grief has two A to B level values/uses. If you run a larger COK unit with a mounted dreadlord (crown of command) and BSB (re-rollable AS and protection from flaming) both with 1+ AS, then the standard of Hag Grief is incredibly valuable in allowing re-rolls to hit and strikes first in combat (especially useful against opposing cav units and elite units where killng first does limit attacks back). Since some COK models wil likely be wounded and fail AS rolls, losing models reduces attacks, so getting to strike first each round adds value. It is very annoying to opponents to see the I2 cold ones hitting at S4 and adding to the damage. Against models with ASF (especially high elves), the ASF banner prevents them from striking first (ASF vs. ASF models strike simultaneously) and taking re-rolls to hit (esp. valuable against high elf armies). Even in a lesser unit or a black guard, the ability of a dreadlord or master to strike first and re-roll to hit and the ability of the unit to negate ASF and re-rolls to hit of opposing units can be very valuable.


Yes, I mentioned the use for a large CoK unit, and it gets even better if you put characters in it, regardless of how huge the points cost tends to get. The utility in Black-Guard is minimal however. 35 points to get a high-I Elf hero/lord to strike first? You're basically just paying for the rerolls on only the character, when a much better investment would be something that actually benefits the whole unit, such as Armor-Piercing.


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## olderplayer

Dwellers is a problem for every army and is, in my opinion, overpowered for its casting cost and a very tough spell for a dark elf army to face, especially for a Slann. Final transmutation is more balanced but still overpowered but less common due to Lore of Metal being more situational. If I see those two spells, I have to hold back my dispell dice and hope my opponent miscasts something before those spells are attempted (and can't cast those spells after the miscast) or doesn't get off spells with IRF, so that I can max out the dispell attempt. The MR boost is more for the Lore of Death spells, Lore of Nurgle spells, and Lore of Metal spells targeting my characters and high value models that don't allow armour saves. 

I'm running a sizeable COK unit with dreadlord (pendant, 1+ AS, whip of agony, crown of command) and BSB with dragonhelm, 1+ AS, and dawnstone instead of BG because I'm finding BG models are just too easily killed off, leaving the lord and BSB exposed by themselves. A COK unit is much more expensive for the number of attacks and wounds, but with the ability to largely shrug off stupidity checks, I gain movement flexibility, hitting power (S6 on the charge), better protection for the characters, and a much better AS. That unit can keep up with and support and be supported by hydras much better. The dreadlord and BSB (on a dark steed) can charge out of the unit to tarpit something, take on warmachines, take on light cav or cav units, or solo characters or monsters. With BG, I don't get the extra AS of the mounts and the Look Out Sir benefits for mounted characters. 

Another point I forgot. The Ring of Hotek has more value than one might first assume if used creatively. I've been ocassionally running a Master on a dark steed with the Cloak or a 1+ AS, a Ring of Hotek and a beastmaster's scourge (+1 attack and AP for minimal additional points cost) near or in the COK unit. When facing magic heavy armies (seeing lots of high elves, warriors with multiple casters, lizardmen, dark elves, and lvl 4 skaven grey seers), the ring master on the steed can run into range of the enemy casters or be set up to force the enemy units with casters to avoid moving into range of the ring. With the new ring rules, I can cast into range of the ring of hotek without risk to my casters and, yet, still mess up their casters' movements and casting range. With a Slann, the Slann either risks blowing up its temple guard unit (only one use of cupped hands and dispelled throne of vines) or can't get into range of my casters to invoke becalming on them or to get off dwellers on the units I've held back and that are not in combat. One strategy is to lock the Slann and TG unit in combat with the stubborn dreadlord and have the ring master close by but behind the TG unit so it cannot be targetted and forces miscasts while the rest of my army divides and conquers the rest of the Lizardman army. It doesn't always work, but it at least gives a chance against Lizardmen armies that are really tough in 8th edition for dark elves to beat.


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## Tatsumaki

Olderplay makes a good point with the Ring of Hotek. In lower points games, or in games where you risk being completely out-magicked, the Ring comes in handy when used that way. I have personally used that technique to vanquish 2 entire units of temple guard, and once even got a lord of change!! (DIMENSIONAL CASCAAAADE!!)


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## Lord Reevan

I have an idea for a combat hero I've been willing to try, note I am pretty new to fantasy I just want your opinion on this guy, Master with beastmaster's scourge, hydrablade, armor of blood, sea dragon cloak. Comes in at 140pts, has 5-8 attacks that are armor piercing and each wound ups his armor save. what you think?


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## Masked Jackal

Lord Reevan said:


> I have an idea for a combat hero I've been willing to try, note I am pretty new to fantasy I just want your opinion on this guy, Master with beastmaster's scourge, hydrablade, armor of blood, sea dragon cloak. Comes in at 140pts, has 5-8 attacks that are armor piercing and each wound ups his armor save. what you think?


Unfortunately, that build is illegal. Beastmasters Scourge is a special hand weapon and can't be combined with a magical weapon, just like any other. It can't even be combined with a regular hand weapon, though it can be combined with a shield.

Personally, I would give him a great weapon, Armor of Darkness and another item of your choice. The Dawnstone would be perfect.


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## Lord Reevan

Nice one thank you.  I realized it might have been a bit of threadomancy so sorry for that.


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## olderplayer

The idea of a beastmaster's scourge as a weapon for a master is a good one simply because it now replaces the hand weapon (instead of being an additional hand weapon), is a relatively cheap mundane weapon that does not use up the magic points allowance for the master, and adds +1 attack and AP. I often equip my master BSB on a mount or on foot and a master on a peg (war machine hunger with cloak of hag grief and dawnstone to take the shooting and ranged magic hits) with the beastmaster's scourge (now that it is a special weapon and not an additional hand weapon, it can be used on a mounted master) so as to max out the magic points on armour and talismen and enchanted items (preservation is more important than hitting power for a BSB). Other than losing the benefit of having magical attacks against ethereal models, that is equivalent to getting biting blade and sword of battle in one weapon that cost a lot less and does not use up the precious magic items points limit.


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## Masked Jackal

Yes, it is quite good, but against tougher models that you'd expect to see in a challenge, I'd prefer a great weapon. You shouldn't really have anything to worry about from R&F if you equip your Master properly.


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## Vaz

A Master with 3 ASL attacks, regardless of hatred and WS6 is not something I want to test out competitively. You said it yourself, short of the 1+ Armour from the BRB. I'd rather go for a Heavy Armour + Ogre Blade + Enchanted Shield. Just as expensive, but you get to keep Init which being 7 (?) for Elven Heroes, outspeeds pretty much anything short of ASF/Other Elves.


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## Masked Jackal

Vaz said:


> A Master with 3 ASL attacks, regardless of hatred and WS6 is not something I want to test out competitively. You said it yourself, short of the 1+ Armour from the BRB. I'd rather go for a Heavy Armour + Ogre Blade + Enchanted Shield. Just as expensive, but you get to keep Init which being 7 (?) for Elven Heroes, outspeeds pretty much anything short of ASF/Other Elves.


Just as expensive, but if anything does hit you, it will very likely kill your character. With only a 3+ save, he's probably not even safe from regular infantry. A compromise between these two extremes would be a halberd. S5, keeps initiative, and with Armor of Darkness, you can have a great armor save.


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## gazcal

i have to say that the pendant is awsome and has not let be down once i urge new players to try it out as its so useful, for a master though its simple, armour of eternal servitude, other tricksters shard, beast master scrouge, shield and sea dragon claok

or you can swap the other tricksters shard for a null talisman if going against magic heavy armys.

either way he is suprising good against other characters and could handle a lord with a bit of luck. more use him to boost ld of an important unit and bulk up CR through his attacks.


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## Infekted

Problem with the pendant of lolz is that I've had my lord nailed by no strength attacks far too often to be funny..


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## Orochi

Also, the pendant should never go on a Master. The Dreadlord and High Sorceress are in need of it.


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## Masked Jackal

Infekted said:


> Problem with the pendant of lolz is that I've had my lord nailed by no strength attacks far too often to be funny..


Then keep him away from that wizard and use your dice to dispel that shit. He's hardly an unkillable Lord,and you do have options for taking out Death Wizards. Have you tried using Death on a PegaSorc?


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## Infekted

I refer specifically to one HE hero a friend of mine likes to run. He basically does d6 auto wounds to an attacker when he dies. Pendant does nothing against it as they have no strength value. You have a 2/3 chance of your pimped out lord being insta-gibbed by a hero.
He did this to me a couple of times, so I changed my set up. I gave him:
Pendant of lolz - autotake inverse ward.
Armour of eternal servitude - Regen vs no str attacks.
Enchanted shield + SDC - To bring his armour to something relatively decent. 2+ in combat, 1+ vs everything else. Not too shabby considering.
+1STR sword - Best I could do with the remaining points allowance. Giving him strength of 5. Ok for most things. Curse the DE enchanted shield being so much more expensive than the main book... WTF is up with that?


There's other stuff too that can pick your lord up annoying wounds here and there.


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## Masked Jackal

That's pretty easy. Don't kill him with the Lord. Hero levels are pretty easily taken about a few elites allocating attacks at him. A few S6 attacks from CoK's or a bunch of S4AP attacks from Black-Guard are ideal.


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## Infekted

That's all well and good when discussed in isolation.
But it doesn't address the fact that actually, there are lots of ways to pick up wounds from no strength attacks. I only play once every month or two, and play lots of different people. I can't remember every nuance of every persons army.
That HE hero caught me by suprise both times and I knew nothing about it untill my lord dropped dead.
It was an example of how easily it can happen.
Against no stength attacks, which tend to ignore armour, your lord is basically naked.


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## Tim/Steve

You are Talking about Caradryan... when he dies he tends to take most people with him. 

There is no point taking a regen save against Caradryan... his attacks are ASF and flaming which means that he'll always get to hit you, and if 1 of his attacks wounds then your regen is gone for the turn, whether you save it or not (rule if if 'wounded' not 'suffers an unsaved wound')....

Don't try to outmuscle Caradryan.... I've done it with my ogre Tyrant quicte often, hut its either easy, nor a good plan (I do it from lack of choice), but then I know I have a 5++ rerollable save (1 time... but works for the D6 wounds) and 5W starting.

DE have lots of options against Caradryan. If you want to outmuscle him then send an assassin, you'll get 1 turn to kill him, but with 2W and a 4++ ward you'll have to hope the HE player doesn't get lucky because the assassin will probably die from Caradryan's attacks even before his death throw D6 wounds.

A better plan is to use non-magical items: the repeater crossbow, spear or halberd. Either shoot his unit to bits (if playing a fluffy HE army he'll be in phoenix guard and this'll be harder... but he is best used away from them) or if you do get into combat with him then refuse his challenge and then just hit him with all the attacks you can get from non-character models.... no amount of magical item tooling can beat the simple solution of drowning him in standard attacks.

Pendent of Khaleth used to be utterly devastating, but now there are a few character sniping spells (eg metal and death spells) that it doesn't help you against its lost some of its power.. but then its still an immense item that I would always take on my general (just wish it was transplanted into either ogre/WE army books).


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## Orochi

Pendant of Khaeleth is probably the best magic item in defense terms currently.

As for Caradryan, he has 3 str5 flaming attacks that cause D3 wounds each and ASF. Then he has the sigil which causes D6 no save hits on the model that kills him.

You'd be plain stupid to use a character to engage him. He was basically thrown in as a trump card to deal with Chaos Lords/vampires/Tyrants and other things 2-3 times his value.

Just swamp him where his 5+, 4++, T3 and 2 wounds really don't count for much.


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## Infekted

Ok poor choice of example. I didn't find out about the flaming attacks on that guy till playing him again last time.

But the point I am trying to make remains. There are tons of ways for your lord to get hit by no strength wounds.

Dangerous terrain.
That beastlore spell that makes all terrain dangerous and you fail on 1 and 2.
Death magic
I believe the empire boss has an auto wound weapon?
WE have some nasties too iirc.
Some terrain pieces cause auto wounds.
List goes on, probly lots more I've missed/don't know about.

In individual cases you can deal with it. It's all very well saying "just dispell it" about magic, but if you could dispell everything magic would be irrelevent.

Ofc the pendant is awesome. An autotake item. I always put it on my general. Be that Dready or Supreme Sorcie. But its so awesome that everyone knows and fears it. And makes plans to deal with it. And having regen has saved my ass quite a few times in the campaign I just played.
And what I have I lost for taking it? 1 attack, -1 to their armour and 1 off my armour in combat? Its not a bad trade off imo.


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## Masked Jackal

Infekted said:


> Ok poor choice of example. I didn't find out about the flaming attacks on that guy till playing him again last time.
> 
> But the point I am trying to make remains. There are tons of ways for your lord to get hit by no strength wounds.


All of which are easy to remember, and apart from Death, quite rare.



> Dangerous terrain.


This is avoidable in most situations, and only is on a 1.


> That beastlore spell that makes all terrain dangerous and you fail on 1 and 2.


All *terrain* Just don't go near terrain if you have the spell on you.


> Death magic


Spirit Leech is somewhat weak against Ld10, and Fate of Bjuna has short range, so just dispel the other killer spell.


> I believe the empire boss has an auto wound weapon?


He's also a lot of points and pretty easily killed by a Dark Elf Lord.


> WE have some nasties too iirc.


They aren't much of a problem.


> Some terrain pieces cause auto wounds.


As said, don't go into that terrain.


> List goes on, probly lots more I've missed/don't know about.


There aren't actually all that much more.



> In individual cases you can deal with it. It's all very well saying "just dispell it" about magic, but if you could dispell everything magic would be irrelevent.


It's not a matter of dispelling everything, it's a matter of picking and choosing the relevant spells to dispel. In this case, Death has only a few spells that can really harm you. Purple Sun is now an insane casting value for taking out I5, so the only other spells are the killer spells and Doom and Darkness, of which the first is the most immediate threat.



> Ofc the pendant is awesome. An autotake item. I always put it on my general. Be that Dready or Supreme Sorcie. But its so awesome that everyone knows and fears it. And makes plans to deal with it. And having regen has saved my ass quite a few times in the campaign I just played.
> And what I have I lost for taking it? 1 attack, -1 to their armour and 1 off my armour in combat? Its not a bad trade off imo.


It's practically useless to take the Armor of Eternal Servitude *and* the Pendant. Take one or the other. If you take Armor of Eternal Servitude on your Dreadlord, remember a certain combo with sorceresses on a Pegasus and 6 wounds from Soul Stealer.


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## Infekted

Ok so maybe I got screwed. Because the people I play with take that beastlore spell as being all terrain including _open_ terrain is dangerous and causes a fail on 1 or 2.
Which means if you move you test. If that isn't correct I am going to slap some peoples... But if that isn't the case it makes that spell kinda pointless no?

Aye I have tried ye olde peggy sorc with the pendant. It is very nice. But damn you have to be careful on your positioning.. Very vulnerable to missile fire if you get anything wrong. Or they have skirmishers or anything.
Plus you cant take what is imo the next most over powered DE item. The sac dagger. God I love that thing... That and power of darkness actually make me enjoy having low winds of power. Try dispelling anything with your measly 1-2 dice...


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## Masked Jackal

I'm not exactly sure, it's very borderline, but if it's from the Lore of Beasts from the Beastmen book, you don't have much to worry about. That lore sucks balls. As for the Sorceress, put a regular Sorceress on the Pegasus with Tome of Furion and the Pendant. Much less of a points-drain, you get 3(6) wounds with the Pegasus, and hell, you don't even *have* to pick Dark lore. That setup is very ideal for a Death Sorc, who can maneuver into the correct position to snipe out characters, and this will give her more power dice. Combine that with a Level 4 who has the Sacrificial Dagger and Power of Darkness, and bam, you have an unstoppable magic phase.


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## Infekted

Its the Curse of Anraheir from the lore of beasts in the main book. That lore seems to pretty decent tbh, especially for the beastman army.

I'm not sure if I am allowed to directly quote the entire spell, but the pertanent bit is:
"the unit treats all terrain (other than impassable terrain) as dangerous terrain and will fail dangerous terrain tests on a 1 or a 2".
It also makes that unit have a -1 to hit debuff.

The arguement that most people I play with is that open terrain _is_ a terrain type so becomes dangerous. The fact that it specifies impassable as the only exempt type kinda swings it for me.

The situation I faced was this. Playing beastmen. He charged a horde of ungors into my corsairs. He had some beastman lord in there, not sure his exact stats/items really.
My BG + lord were set up so they could flank charge next turn.
I cant remember the exact dice numbers but he basically had enough to cast three spells and I had enough to reliably dispell one of them.
He cast:
+3T on his lord.
+1S +1T on his ungor unit.
The above curse of anheir on my BG.

I chose to dispell the buff to his ungor unit. I believe that was the correct choice.

I do get your point, that generally its a waste of points to get both wards, and would be better served if you split them up.
But I've only been playing 2k points. I had one dready and one lv2 sorc with sac dagger.
I wanted to make my dreadlord general as unkillable as possible, whilst not sacrificing too much armour or killing ability. And I didn't. Sorc cant take the pendant and the sac dagger, and I preferred the sac dagger.
And that regen saved his life enough times for me to rate is as viable.

Next campaign we're going up to 3k, in which case I am already itching to make a death pega pendant pain in the sphincter sorc :biggrin:


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## Masked Jackal

The problem here is that you're running only a single Level 2 at 2000 points. If you replaced your Dreadlord with a Supreme Sorceress, you'd likely do a lot better. Running a Dreadlord isn't really feasible until 2500 points.


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## Tim/Steve

The "open-terrain" being terrain argument is total rubbish... slap them and move on to play other people because anyone who tries to pull this isn't worth playing, let alone arguing with (and I say this as someone who adores curse of anraheir, but you have to use it at the right time).

If you do play people who try this (tut tut) then you can't successfully argue against their logic. P116 clearly marks out open-terrain as a type of terrain... but it does then go onto say that it doesn't affect the game. This last part should be what is important... but anyone sufficiently dick headed enough to try to pull this shit won't be convinced by that.

Worst comes to worst just don't move... which is what happens most of the time when I get it off against people who are in terrain. Luckily for my WE I normally want the enemy to be in terrain... because often its a wood and I can spam some treesinging direct damage at them (treemen and ancients spamming their 3+ bound items are great).


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## Infekted

Having done a little research I conclude that topic is a massive can of worms and you can not definately say it's one way or another untill GW faq it.
There's good arguements for and against. And a massive spread of opinions on it...

The whole open terrain does not effect the game doesn't really hold water.
As the spell makes it not open terrain anymore but dangerous terrain, which does effect the game. ALL terrain types, except impassable is considered to be dangerous.


Oh I also disagree strongly about dreadlord not being viable untill 2.5k.
I have found it the other way around. Leadership 10 general thats actually likely to be alive at the end of the game for 250 points, is great at 2k imo.


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## Masked Jackal

But then you don't have a level 4, which is faaaar more powerful. If you want to win games, there really is no two ways about it.


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## Infekted

Again I disagree. All going well the level 4 _can_ win games for you. Or she can get sucked into the warp on her first spell. Or get lobotomised and be reduced to Lv 0. Both of which I have seen happen relatively frequently.
Magic is too unreliable to build entire lists around imo.


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## Masked Jackal

Dark Elves have a number of items to help protect against that, not the least of which the Sacrificial Dagger, which lets you use one less dice than necessary to cast a spell, and just kill a guy if it doesn't work. And, further, a level 4 gives you that much more oomph in both your magic phase and the enemy's. The reason they were getting so many spells off on you was because you didn't have +4 to dispel most likely.


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## Infekted

At the cost of performing much more poorly in the combat phase. And my games have indicated that that is where most games are won or lost.
It's starting to get to the point where we're talking around in circles, and have veered well off the topic so I'm gonna leave it here.
Peace and good gaming.


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## Masked Jackal

I agree, if you don't see how a properly placed Melkoths or Withering makes combat a near auto-win, I suppose you never will.


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