# Black Templars vs. Imperial Guards (Cadians)



## Attila (Apr 11, 2008)

So my cousin and I are going to have a 1000 pt battle I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips as to how to beat him? He has :

3 Leman Russ Battle Tanks 
All three have the hull mounted Lascannons and Pintle mounted Stubbers
They have Track Guards, Searchlight, and Smoke Launchers
1 has Hunter Killer Missile

HQ 
Command Platoon (5 men)
sergeant with CCW and PlasPistol
4 Lasguns

Troops 
Infantry Platoon *2 (25 men each)
2 Junior Officer with CCW and LasPistol 
4 Sergeants with CCW and LasPistol 
8 Guardsmen with Lasguns
36 Infantry with Lasguns

So on to what I have: 

1 Venerable Dread with Missile Launcher and Twin Linked Lascannon, Tank Hunter skill and Extra Armor

1 Master of Sanctity with BP and Crozious
1 Emperor's Champion with Suffer Not the Unclean to Live (I think this vow with best benifit my BTs against the Cadians however suggestions and critizisms are welcome)

1 Land Raider Crusader to transport Crusader Squad 
It's carrying 10 initiates with CCW and BP and Meltagun and Powerfist
It has Blessed Hull and Pintle Mounted Storm Bolter also thinking of attaching my Chaplain or my Champion to this Group

1 troop of 5 "Heavy" Initiates with Bolters, Plasmagun and Missile Launcher

The Idea here is to rush my LRC right up the middle to his biggest concentration of troups and start ripping through them. In the Meantime my "Heavy" Initiates and my Dread will be trying to pop his ****ing tanks 


I would love to hear from anyone who has played BT or Cadians to give me some tips and critisisms on my tactics and troops selections.

these two armies are both 1000 points give or take 5 pts


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## CommissarHorn (Apr 14, 2008)

what terrain are you guys playing?
The best tactics are usually made on during the game.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

assume your anti tank is taken out in the first turn, which is a very good possibility. What then? You are going to tear up his infantry when you get there, but he's going to lay into you with those Leman Russ's. Soon as he takes down your dreadnaught, which is the biggest threat to his tanks, he's going to drop your "heavy" squad. The Land Raider Crusader is good, but it won't stand up to the pounding those Leman Russ's can dish out. It's a tough fight.


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## Attila (Apr 11, 2008)

Terrain is pretty open in the middle with some cover along the sides. Trees Mostly with a busted Up building in the middle.

SteelRain Thanks for the input. Yes i realise that it's going to be tough but I'm not really sure what else will work. If my dread is dropped im screwed dealing with those tanks. The LRC is there to get my men into combat, but I'm not sure how many turns of punishment it can take.

Any suggestions for an alternate 1000 point army ?


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## Ludoldus (Apr 8, 2008)

Yeah, with that much leman russ death you're in trouble. Luckily for you he has nowhere near enough guardsmen. 

First on your army list, get rid of blessed hull (only useful against eldar), and definitely attach the chaplain to the crusader squad. Also, suffer not the unclean to live- why do you think this benefits most? Templar have no problem ripping through guardsmen squads as it is so why let them have an attack by dropping your I4 to I3? i recommend taking either uphold the honour of the emperor ( if theres little terrain) to help keep your crusader squad alive from the blasts or if there is plenty of cover then probably abhor the witch as its only 20 pts and wont do anything bad or good for you.

The crusader is gonna get pounded alot by those Lemans, and probably wont last very long/ will be constantly shaken and stunned. Personally, i woudn't take one in 1000 points, but im guessing you cant really change your list dramatically. If you can, i'd recommend dropping the LRC, and picking up a small, 5 man assault squad with a powerfist, 2 plasma pistols and meltabombs, for around 145 points. those guys will be able to take out at least one leman, making back their points instantly. the other points would be used to put the two squads in Rhinos, as it seems the only anti armour firepower he has is the Lemans. This will force him to divide his fire (i.e does he take out the tank-busting assault marines, or the Plasma/missile Rhino, or the dreadnought). However this is only if you actually have the models, which isnt very likely. 

So with your current list your in a very tough spot. All i can say is that you will need to focus ALL your antitank fire on the Lemans. That means your dreadnought, "heavy" squad and LRC (LRC has a pintle multi-melta) should do nothing but shoot at them. If your lucky, they will go down and all thats left is his infantry, which will be no problem considering they all have lasguns and you should have a LRC with hurricane bolters and twin linked assault cannon... muahahaha. HOWEVER, one word of warning. If your LRC is knocked out, never underestimate massed flashlights on your marines- they will die. 

At the end of the day, this battle is gonna be very tough for you and alot of your guys are gonna die. All i can really say is good luck to a fellow battle brother :good:

Edit: didnt see that post before me... lot of stuff in here is irrelevant now.


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## Attila (Apr 11, 2008)

Ok thank you that answered more questions then you know  OK i've tossed my squads into the rhinos (i happened to have one and a predator convert) now the heavy weapons team ? should i send them at a leman russ, and drop them off or get them in range and try my luck firing from farther away ?

so i have in this newer list :

5 Man Assault Squad
9 Initates (CCW and BP) with my Chap in a Rhino
9 Initiates (Plasmagun, Missile Launcher, bolters) with my Champion in a Rhino
1 Venerable dread as mentioned above 

this is 964 pts ? a couple more in the assault squad ? Or i could drop some initiates in the "heavy" Squad and grab another Assault Squad?


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

assault squads will win the day here. Drop the "heavy" initiates because they'll most likely get wiped out by 1 ordnance shot anyways.


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## Ludoldus (Apr 8, 2008)

Okay, so im gonna assume your list looks something like this now-

HQ

Master of sanctity- 110

Emperor's champion- 90

Elites

Ven. Dreadnought with missile, lascannon, armour, tank hunters - 170

Troops

9 initiates with CCW, p. fist and melta- 169

^attached rhino with smoke, extra armour= 58

Total = 227

9xinitiates with plasma, missile launcher - 160

^attached rhino with extra armour and smoke - 58

Total - 218

Fast Attack

5x Jump pack marines, 2x plasma pistol, p. fist, meltabombs- 145

Total- 960 without any vows

i would say thats a good list, as the Leman's will be getting shot up by the dread which should be pretty durable thanks to venerable and extra armour, and the assault squad will be a threat the whole time with such a huge payload of weapons.

As for tactics, it depends alot on how hes deployed, and that depends alot on how good a player he is. If he puts all his Lemans in one flank/ spot, then rush the assualt squad up through cover and use the Rhino "heavys" to rush up and start blasting away, as well the dreadnought to draw away fire- if this happens make sure you talk up your dread, saying things like "yeah even if you explode him i can just re-roll and get a crew shaken" and " this guy can pump out a missile and a re-roll lascannon and he gets 2d6 penetration" and things like that- if it works your friend should spend a while blasting at it with everything hes got, and thanks to said upgardes it should last at least 2 turns, and by that time your Rhinos and assult squad will be nice and close- also remember that those guardsmen cant actually damage your Rhino, and your friend isnt allowed to aim template weapons onto his men- so basically if you can get into combat and then just keep getting massacre rolls and charges into his infantry then he'll just have to sit back and watch as they get squished.

If he spreads his Lemans, then you'll have to dedicate one to the assault squad, one to the dread, and one to the "heavy" squad. Just make sure to get the missile and plasma in range with the Rhino, and go for side and back armour! especially with the assault marines. 5 meltabombs on back armour= certain death.

Finally, remember to use the Rhino's once your troops have got out- Tank shock his infantry for giggles, use them to block Line of Sight to your infantry and so on- they are still useful even after they've dropped off their cargo.

Anyway, this will always be a hard game, and you have about a 40% chance of winning as it is, simply because if you want to win against that much armour in a 1000 point game then you really need to tailor your force to it- Again, all i can say is good luck, and make sure you have fun, even if you do get horribly massacred by all the ap3 template death- make sure you post up a report in the battle rep. section! 

And if you win, remember to celebrate properly :drinks:


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## Alias2003 (Feb 7, 2008)

I wouldn't even bother with Plasma guns or ML on the initiates. Go with meltas and PF and rush them into combat. The guardsmen are going to get massacred anyway, and if you get your P fist and meltas close enough, its game over for the Leman Russ'.

I would also drop the Champion. Use the extra points for more troops or anti-armor (AKA a landspeeder or something). 36 Guardsmen are going to spend more time waving around those flashlights and wondering which SM squad is going to pounce on them first. You might even be better dropping the dread and champion and picking up 3 LS tornados. That will make him think twice as the ass cannon can rip through the infantry and rending can hurt the ""Russ"" and a multi-melta would greatly benefit you.

Goodluck

ALias


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

drop the plasma and missile launcher, you don't need them, get a power fist if you want to pop tanks. 

this fight will be won with fist and sword, not bolter shells.

an assault cannon is better at punching 14 armor than the TL lascannon is, plus its free. and its also really good at taking out infantry 

drop the rhinos, they will only slow you down, instead trade them for as many neophytes as you can. make yourself a tempting target for his lasguns (just out of 12") and then righteous zeal your way into an assault. splatter, wince, repeat.


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## Attila (Apr 11, 2008)

Unfortunately ALias I can't drop the Champion as he is mandatory for 750+ point games. I'm still bent on whether to use the "heavy" initiates or just outfit them for CC slaughter with power fist and meltas as well. Thanks for all your input guys you've all been a great help ! the fight is today  SO I like my 40% odds lol this should be fun and i'll post the battle report.


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