# Demon primarchs chronological order and other questions



## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

im a little confused as to the order in which the traitor primarchs have and are going to become demons.

1- I was under the impression that right after Magnus got his back broken he turned into a demon prince (since he lost his body and is described as a spirit/immaterial being) and so he is the first demon prince, but in the novel Angel exterminatus i believe it states Fulgrim is the first, if Fulgrim is the first then when does Magnus become a prince?

2-If Angron became a Prince and so is now a wholly immaterial being how come he can simply exist in the materium?

3-when will Lorgar become a prince?

4-when will alpharius/omegon become princes?do they even become princes?

5- In betrayer it states that no other being save Lorgar has ever used such a monumental amount of warp energy (to allow Angron to transcend), is that an embellishment? i find it hard to believe that only Lorgar has ever used the warp to that extent.

i appreciate some questions cant really be answered completely.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Thats a good question. But it makes sense that Magnus would be the first Daemon Prince. I'm not sure about Fulgrim because it seemed that he was actually turning into a Daemon Prince and was actually waiting to become something more than a Daemon Prince... something more powerful. Then we have Angron of course.

So far we have

1. Magnus
2. Fulgrim
3. Angron

I predict

4. Perturabo (After Heresy after Iron Cage Incident)
5. Mortarion (After Heresy when coming to Planet of Plague)
6. Lorgar


To your second question I would say no. But with hundreds of thousands of people being sacrificed to the Dark Gods, I see him keeping his form. 

I don't think Lorgar will ascend to Daemonhood until after the Heresy. According to _Dark Creed_, Lorgar ascended to Daemonhood after his actions throughout the Imperium. 

Alpharius and Omegon don't turn into Daemon Princes. At least in current fluff.

Doubt it. I don't really think so, thats really saying a lot about Lorgar if thats true. I'm not really sure he has done anything to eclipse Magnus and the Emperor. But who knows, for the most part, I believe the Emperor and Magnus for the most part knew they had to control themselves. So I guess you can say its true. I don't think either the Emperor or Magnus reached through the warp to make a Daemon Prince.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

I thought Fulgrim was possessed really early on? As in just before/during Isstvan?

Sure, he didn't sprout wings on the spot, but I remember him being described as slowly making changes to Fulgrim's body as the Crusade progressed. But then how did the real Fulgrim come back at the end... confused.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Fulgrim's development is weird to describe however, one thing is clear. He was _not_ a daemon prince until _Angel Exterminatus._ The Daemon and Fulgrim himself may have altered the body, but it required much energy for Fulgrim to assend. Hence, the spirit stones were what eventually brought his final step into Daemonhood. 

It seems to me that Angron and Fulgrim were almost artificially created into Daemon Princes. Neither had accomplished enough to obtain the gift, but they were both able to get enough energy to manipulate the warp in one form or the other.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

I thought Mortarion was turned when the Death guard were stuck in the warp en-route to Terra? The old index astartes indicate that when he was seen again he was taller and far leaner (not sure about his carrion wings)

Magnus is described as transcending his tower at the end of 1k sons by being carried by aetheric wings of fire, but theres no other change noted. Throughout the book it remarked that magnus could change his form so I don't think that can be consider ascension in the true fashion

Lorgar was the last of the deamon primarch to ascend, with a cry of deamonic justification that echoed across the immaterium, I imagine this was on Sicarus rather than prior Terra. He gave the gods the war and mortal army they wanted. The outcome was likely wanted after all as well. 

In reflection crack'd they just said that the real Fulgrim tricked the deamon and willingly devoted himself to Slaanesh, but it was never explained why or how, and really just destroyed a lot of the tragedy established in the "Fulgrim" novel. 

I guess the question is when dealing with demigods where is cut off point?


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

As to Mortarion, I always thought he was promoted to Daemon Prince following the events of the Heresy were Nurgle rewarded Mortarion for shaping his Daemon World in his deities name.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> As to Mortarion, I always thought he was promoted to Daemon Prince following the events of the Heresy were Nurgle rewarded Mortarion for shaping his Daemon World in his deities name.


I believe that's what the IA tells us. However, I think it more likely that he ascended when he bargained his soul and Legion to Nurgle prior to Terra. At least I think that is the path the series will take.


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## Marcoos (Sep 26, 2010)

I don't think Magnus has ascended to Daemonhood yet. Events in Betrayer make it clear that psykers can effectively disappear and rematerialise elsewhere, and that Magnus hasn't yet committed to the traitors cause.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I believe that's what the IA tells us. However, I think it more likely that he ascended when he bargained his soul and Legion to Nurgle prior to Terra. At least I think that is the path the series will take.


Very possible. I wonder if the plague itself would create enough warp power for his transformation though. Both Fulgrim and Angron required much sacrifice, and it almost seemed like a superficial transformation. It doesn't seem they had enough gifts for them to transform naturally. If there is a natural transformation to a Daemon Prince anymore. 

M'kar for example was rewarded for his deeds when he died.


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## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

Marcoos said:


> I don't think Magnus has ascended to Daemonhood yet. Events in Betrayer make it clear that psykers can effectively disappear and rematerialise elsewhere, and that Magnus hasn't yet committed to the traitors cause.


Thats too confusing, but when Lorgar when through time and space to talk to Magnus, was he or was he not a Daemon Prince. I can't remember for the life of me.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

What I got from ADB was that BOTH Angron and Lorgar was supposed to ascend to damonhood prior to Terra!  Magnus is coming about to be a DP at least. He seems to be in the between in _Aurelian_.


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## randian (Feb 26, 2009)

Lost&Damned said:


> 2-If Angron became a Prince and so is now a wholly immaterial being how come he can simply exist in the materium?


My bet: continuous infusion from Khorne. A daemon of his power cannot remain in the materium for long without some source of warp power.

Alternative bet: the ritual that created him is supplying that power.


Lost&Damned said:


> 5- In betrayer it states that no other being save Lorgar has ever used such a monumental amount of warp energy (to allow Angron to transcend), is that an embellishment? i find it hard to believe that only Lorgar has ever used the warp to that extent.


I'd change that to "no other unassisted mortal being." There's a reason why super-psykers like Ahriman can't turn themselves or others into daemon princes. They can't safely channel the amount of warp energy required, even if they had the means to acquire it.

Lorgar is already morally corrupt, of course, but the sorcery didn't appear to corrupt his body with mutation or destroy his mind.

The amount of warp energy Tzeentch channeled through Magnus to destroy the webway was pretty stupendous, but that was obviously assisted, and also resulted in no obvious side effects.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Spoilers***

I did hear that Fulgrim ascended in _Angel Exterminatus_ and Angron on _Betrayer_. I could be wrong though.


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## DarthMarko (Aug 20, 2012)

Marcoos said:


> I don't think Magnus has ascended to Daemonhood yet. Events in Betrayer make it clear that psykers can effectively disappear and rematerialise elsewhere, and that Magnus hasn't yet committed to the traitors cause.


Also there is Lorgar asking Magnus to show his real face...but to contradict this - he tells him that they are all changing...


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## klaswullt (Feb 25, 2012)

I like to think that it can happen in any way.
Like its more of a concept
or a powerlevel.

For me personally, Deamon Prince is an archetype.
Written into the universe, and all sentient minds.

When anyone become sufficient similar to a Deamon Prince,
they download the party lines of their God from the Universe.


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## klaswullt (Feb 25, 2012)

Hence.
Possession.
Deamonic Cybernetic Implants,
Or just being a psyker that powerfull.


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