# End Times: Archaon



## Einherjar667

So here are the details:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/01/breaking-end-of-end-times-dragon-edition.html

-Archaon on Dragon / van Horstmann / Galrauch Box
-Bloodthirster / two Characters Box
-New Khornate Unit
-Archaon is a Lvl 4 Caster
-New Tzeentch Lore
-5th and last Book in March
-Title is Endtimes: Achaeon
-More Chaos content, focus on Khorne


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## MidnightSun

>Van Horstmann
>New Tzeentch lore

I need to go and change my pants, brb


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## Orochi

Van Horstmann? it's been too long 

Archaeon on a Dragon and now a level 4 caster? Assuming he keeps all his rules.... 2 million point model incoming.

And a new Bloodthirster/mutated Khorne character (along the lines of the glottkin, perhaps) is more than welcome. The current Bloodthirster is from the 90s, I believe? (ignoring the 'new' head it got in the mid 00s).


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## Vaz

Not sure how I feel about plastic Archaon.

Got to say, that unless Galrauch is the size of a Knight/Wraightknight I won't be too happy.


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## MidnightSun

Pretty sure Galrauch will be roughly the same size, or a little larger, than most of the Dragon models in the range (so way bigger than he is now). I'm thinking cross between a zombie dragon and a DE black dragon.

If he gets End Times rules I'd totally want to use the Emperor Chaos Dragon model from Forge World though. That thing is a beast (I'd never paint it for fear of doing it wrong!)


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## Lord of the Night

What?! That's crap! I mean all that stuff about Archaon is awesome, and I would definitely get a kit that can make him and Van Horstmann. But that's it?! Five books to cover the end of the Warhammer World?? What about all the other factions and what they are doing, like the Lizardmen, the Orcs and Goblins, the Beastmen?? What about the character plots like Settra wanting revenge on Nagash, Teclis and his Avatars taking on the Chaos Gods, Vlad von Carstein hunting for Isabella and trying to become the Elector Count of Sylvania??

If the End Times really does end here then it's wasting so much potential. I would have thought 10 books would be where it ends, one for each key faction and maybe one or two extras to cover important characters and events, like maybe the big final battle being two books like the Shield of Baal campaign for 40k. I will be very disappointed if this really is the end of the series, so much that could have been done and it's just left alone.


LotN


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## Einherjar667

Lord of the Night said:


> What?! That's crap! I mean all that stuff about Archaon is awesome, and I would definitely get a kit that can make him and Van Horstmann. But that's it?! Five books to cover the end of the Warhammer World?? What about all the other factions and what they are doing, like the Lizardmen, the Orcs and Goblins, the Beastmen?? What about the character plots like Settra wanting revenge on Nagash, Teclis and his Avatars taking on the Chaos Gods, Vlad von Carstein hunting for Isabella and trying to become the Elector Count of Sylvania??
> 
> If the End Times really does end here then it's wasting so much potential. I would have thought 10 books would be where it ends, one for each key faction and maybe one or two extras to cover important characters and events, like maybe the big final battle being two books like the Shield of Baal campaign for 40k. I will be very disappointed if this really is the end of the series, so much that could have been done and it's just left alone.
> 
> 
> LotN


Maybe that's just the last book before the cataclysmic event that begins 9th edition. As far as WFB rumors go, the 9th edition stuff has outshined a few others, one of which being a box set. 

If they are really going to consolidate the armies down to 6 books, they still have a lot left to explain. I doubt they'll leave any loose ends before they release said army books. As far as all armies getting ET attention, who knows.


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## Vaz

Having spoken with my local GW dude (apparently used to work at head office and Warhammer Forge as one of the email answerers before WHF quasi collapsed and then got sick of working with interns with a crib sheet and only a basic working knowledge about the game) about reserving a copy of Archaon whenever it drops, and getting into a discussion about it.

Supposedly, it's taking inspiration from the original "end of warhammer" that the WHF guys had at the start of the production for Tamurkhan, but it didn't get much traction due to the limited nature of it, and the fact that at the end of it, it was written to be just a burp in time and removed from memory (he said at that point, the FW office was split into whether to go into the past of Warhammer, and do things like Battle of Blackfire Pass, or the War of Vengeance and to tie it in with the Time of Legends etc, but it was sort of overruled when many of the major events were earmarked by the WHF GW Team and said they couldn't use that. So he says).

So, they settled on going back for some source material, and settled on Tamurkhan - and were planning on bringing out 3 other books for the gods, but like I said, Tamurkhan was gotten for the rules of the Carmine Dragon and the Chaos Dwarfs only, pretty much, which left the rest of the book and game progression to stagnate, and hence no new releases, which led to no new interest, and so no new releases, ad infinitum ad absurdium.

The basic ideas of the time bubbles, and "the end of the warhammer world" (as in the original ideas) then went over to the Fantasy team. They chose different storylines, and included things such as the resurrection of Nagash, and turning him into a "force for good", or "not-bad", at least, and then taking it 5 books to allow the big bads of the setting - including Be'lakor and Archaon to take centre stage once more (his mention of Be'lakor was interesting-ish), then they'd go and focus on the other books. After all, the 9th edition rumour about the shattered worlds is as a result of Mazdamundi and Kroak enacting the Big Fucking Red Button of the old ones, supposedly, and there's no mention of that anywhere.


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## Einherjar667

What if the dual Bloodthirster kit also makes Be'lakor?!?


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## Xabre

Simply put, I don't buy the 'bubble' rumors.

Why? Because GW makes money. I really can't imagine them cutting their product like like that... not to mention the sheer alienation that would come from killing off 90% of their armies. I know I for one would probably stop right there, since I collect for a theme, and if my High Elves fell apart... well, they already have, but I can handle 'Elves'. But to see the entire existance just... disappear? Nah.

I'm also getting a bit miffed at the lack of Tzeentch love, both in 40k (oh good, more Khorne stuff), and Fantasy.


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## Einherjar667

Xabre said:


> Simply put, I don't buy the 'bubble' rumors.
> 
> Why? Because GW makes money. I really can't imagine them cutting their product like like that... not to mention the sheer alienation that would come from killing off 90% of their armies. I know I for one would probably stop right there, since I collect for a theme, and if my High Elves fell apart... well, they already have, but I can handle 'Elves'. But to see the entire existance just... disappear? Nah.
> 
> I'm also getting a bit miffed at the lack of Tzeentch love, both in 40k (oh good, more Khorne stuff), and Fantasy.


I'm thinking, and expecting the whole bubble thing to be just awful wording from the rumour spreader. Self contained little bubbles of existence bouncing around to cause the Warhammer world's conflict seems.... ineffective, fluff wise. I take bubbles to mean more like continental fragments with any number of factions stranded on them(think the Outlands from Warcraft) Which is kinda close to the bubble deal, but at least a little more tangible. OR, bubbles meaning the factions have been separated, broken apart and struggling against extreme odds. (IE a bubble of dwarfs stuck in the chaos wastes trying to get home).


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## Vaz

I can actually buy the bubble rumours. I thought that the 3 avatars to start a new world under the aid of Lileath (?Isha?) had done so, avoiding the Big Red Button of the old ones.


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## Asamodai

Lord of the Night said:


> What?! That's crap! I mean all that stuff about Archaon is awesome, and I would definitely get a kit that can make him and Van Horstmann. But that's it?! Five books to cover the end of the Warhammer World?? What about all the other factions and what they are doing, like the Lizardmen, the Orcs and Goblins, the Beastmen?? What about the character plots like Settra wanting revenge on Nagash, Teclis and his Avatars taking on the Chaos Gods, Vlad von Carstein hunting for Isabella and trying to become the Elector Count of Sylvania??
> 
> If the End Times really does end here then it's wasting so much potential. I would have thought 10 books would be where it ends, one for each key faction and maybe one or two extras to cover important characters and events, like maybe the big final battle being two books like the Shield of Baal campaign for 40k. I will be very disappointed if this really is the end of the series, so much that could have been done and it's just left alone.
> 
> 
> LotN


Ever since the very first rumours about the End Times we heard that there would only be 4 books so having 5 seems good to me.

It's pretty clear that Lizardmen and Dwarves are covered in Thanquol and I've seem mention of Orc's in there too. 

As for the other plot lines you mention, presumably they will all be wrapped up in Archaon which I'm assuming will put a definitive end on everything.

It's a bit disappointing that Khaine seems to have been the only book that doesn't come with a big new model. But then I guess the Elves had the most guys on Dragon's anyway. Looking forward to seeing new Archaon. No doubt he'll be a beast.


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## Einherjar667

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/01/plastic-bloodthirster-details.html

Here's some more crap about the Bloodthirster.



> “The Plastic Bloodthirster is real.
> 
> Kit makes three models a normal bloodthirster with whip and Axe of Khorne, one wielding a monstrous two-handed axe, third has a doubleheaded axe and super long chain flail. The wings are really big – the model is almost as big as Nagash, and is extra tall. It is sculpted on top of a flickering flame. There are three different heads with different types of horns and helmets. Large armoured hooves, thigh straps, regular upper body strapps and gladiator kindof armour. Super muscular, like a super ripped world’s strongest man mixed with a Khorne daemon.”


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## Zion

From BoLS:


> *via Captain Citadel 1-20-2015*
> “Archaon is indeed book five of the End Times, and will be new models coming too.
> It will be released sometime in March. Book one has an artist’s rendering of Archaon weilding the Kingslayer on the cover and Book two’s cover is a very nice picture of the current model of Archaon.
> The book concentrates on the forces of Khorne, however Orcs and Goblins finally make their appearance in End Times and Grimgor is featured heavily in this book (with rules).
> All eight of the Incarnates are revealed, including some BIG surprises on a Shakespearean level.
> I talked about the blood thirster recently, but there are more units coming too. Khorne will also be getting Skullreapers, and Wrathmongers.
> The Skullreapers look like the Khador Doomreavers with tall doublehanded halbreds, and the Wrathmongers resemble miniature humoid versions of the Lord of Skulls, but with leather armour.”​


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## Einherjar667

That.... Sounds.... Amazing


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## Kreuger

Mmmm. That _could_ be amazing.


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## Vaz

Those names are fucking ridiculous.

RIP Warhammer.


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## Einherjar667

Vaz said:


> Those names are fucking ridiculous.
> 
> RIP Warhammer.


The Warhammer fluffmasters have never been exactly clever with names, to be honest.


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## Kreuger

@Einherjar667 that's quite an understatement. Lame and pedantic. Reference the old Lizardmen and Bretonian books. Nigel Stillman. Lord Kroak, the dead frog. Ugh.


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## Einherjar667

Kreuger said:


> @Einherjar667 that's quite an understatement. Lame and pedantic. Reference the old Lizardmen and Bretonian books. Nigel Stillman. Lord Kroak, the dead frog. Ugh.


The Warriors of Chaos have cool names in the Black Library books. They should just leave the name spaces blank and called in BL to fill it in.


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## Asamodai

Leaked pictures showing new units and confirmation of 2 more Incarnates.

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?52527-End-Times-5-Rumor-Roundup%2Fpage4


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## Zion

All mirrored onto imgur in case the original source gets a take down notice.


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## Asamodai

So, those rumours about Caradryan were spot on. Wonder what happens to Ungrim. This book is looking exceptionally interesting.


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## venomlust

Maaaaan those Bloodthirsters look so good! :shok:


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## Einherjar667

So since this release seems to becoming up, can we confine all new info to this thread? As in, the bloodthirster kit and WFB stuff (not Khorne stuff overall since there's supposed to be a CSM suppliment approaching.)

Rumour has it on Warseer, from Darnok himself, that the Bloodthirster kit will be the first week's release, and the second week will be the book. No word on the infantry or anything else yet. And that it's coming up after this last Harlequin release.

EDIT: and this:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=208020&d=1424364272


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## Zion

From Natfka:


> the title of the new White Dwarf is
> Blood for the Blood God!
> Khorne's Wrath
> The New Bloodthirster Seeks to Slaughter All
> 
> Inside the are the rules for all three new Bloodthirsters. Some rules in common.
> Each can be taken in a Daemons of Chaos, Legions of Chaos or Grand Legion of the Everchosen Army.
> Is a Lords Choice, and all come with heavy armour an can take Daemonic Gifts.
> M8 WS BS 10 ST6 W5 I9 A6 Ld9
> 
> 
> Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster
> Daemon of Khorne, Daemonic, Devastating Charge, Fly, Frenzy, Large Target, Magic Resistance3, Stubborn, Terror
> Has a S5 breath weapon with flaming attacks rule
> Has hatred characters, and gains 3" to its charge range if charging a unit with characters.
> 
> Wrathaxe and Bloodflail: +2 strength the first round of combat, and gain an extra attack
> 
> Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury
> Daemon of Khorne, Daemonic, Fly, Large Target, Magic Resistance2, Terror
> Axe and Whip
> 
> Bloodthirster of Insenate Rage
> Daemon of Khorne, Daemonic, Fly, Frenzy, Heroic Killing Blow, Large Target, Magic Resistance 2, Terror.
> Great Weapon


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## venomlust

If GW really wants to make a buck they'll release a dataslate for the Bloodthirsters' 40k counterparts as Lords of War. It seems so logical that I'd be surprised if they didn't do it! Gah! Gimme gimme gimme, already! I'm not buying one of these for WFB!


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## Lord of the Night

The new Archaon novel has revealed something quite interesting that explains why Archaon has taken on a Dragon as his new steed, despite Dorghar being one of the Six Treasures;



Archaon: Lord of Chaos said:


> ‘I fear on this occasion, master, the Eye will not be enough,’ the ancient mewled. ‘For the daemonic beast Dorghar has many forms. It is a creature of ill will and monstrous temperament. I fear it will be difficult to locate.’


Dorghar can change forms. So likely for the End Times he is going from horse to Chaos Dragon, pretty awesome actually.


LotN


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## Einherjar667

That is very telling! I wonder what that means about the photos we've seen of Archaon on his horse with the new khorne models.


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## Uveron

Einherjar667 said:


> That is very telling! I wonder what that means about the photos we've seen of Archaon on his horse with the new khorne models.


Becuse you can use both? Or we have another 5 end-time books to go?


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## Einherjar667

Uveron said:


> Becuse you can use both? Or we have another 5 end-time books to go?



Because dragon riding archaon would be introduced mid-campaign. 1 character, 2 models = interesting. 

Pretty sure this is the last end times book


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## Uveron

Einherjar667 said:


> Because dragon riding archaon would be introduced mid-campaign. 1 character, 2 models = interesting.


They have done it before for other hero's.. so it wouldn't surprise me.


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## venomlust

I can only imagine how incredible that model would look.


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## Einherjar667

Wonder if his armor will change. For the supreme mortal lord of chaos, his equipment is a little too close to crom's. His cohorts are going to look more grand than him soon.


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## Orochi

So long as he doesn't end up looking stupid.

I quite like his Tanky, minimalist look. He looks like he is serious, down for business, the man with the plan. 

So other than perhaps the Helmet, I think he is pretty good as far window of miniatures is concerned.

And for the record, Crom was released after Archy


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## Einherjar667

His helmet was mostly what I was referring to. It needs a bit more of a crown look to it if he's going to be the anti-karl franz. Sort of how the Wight King looks compared to the Grave Guard.


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## Uveron

Einherjar667 said:


> His helmet was mostly what I was referring to. It needs a bit more of a crown look to it if he's going to be the anti-karl franz. Sort of how the Wight King looks compared to the Grave Guard.


To be stickler, having 0 crown is more the opposite of having a crown. 

But yep I get the point, the model I think, pre-dated his 'crowning' (I think it was out for the dark shadows campaign?) (Or was that Belacors arrival)


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## Einherjar667

So this new dragon model could be pretty epic if he were to become beyond just the overlord of chaos but the Incarnate of Chaos. Add some sort of cloak and a crown of sorts.


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## Charandris

I can comfirm we will see bloodthirsters in UK stores Friday.


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## Zion

Charandris said:


> I can comfirm we will see bloodthirsters in UK stores Friday.


I'd be surprised if they're out that soon since they aren't up for pre-order yet.


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## Charandris

Not confirming that they'll be available for purchase, I'm just saying they will be in stores wether as a release, In white dwarf, or up as preorders with advertising they will be on show in some way or another at the end of the week.


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## Einherjar667

Charandris said:


> Not confirming that they'll be available for purchase, I'm just saying they will be in stores wether as a release, In white dwarf, or up as preorders with advertising they will be on show in some way or another at the end of the week.


That sounds about right, I read somewhere that the last ET cycle is going to begin the 28th, and another saying the bloodthirster is first, then the book the following week.


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## venomlust

uaS5Zb8Auqs

Not sure if this is "new" or not based on the upload date, but I saw it for the first time over at BoLS lounge.


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## Zion

It's from today's blog post on the GW site. Knowing GW they uploaded it as private early and will make it public later.


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## Charandris

Archaon book up for preorder on the main site.


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## Zion

Charandris said:


> Archaon book up for preorder on the main site.


Wow. That's early in the week.


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## venomlust

Bah, just the novels and not the end times book :ireful2:.


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## Charandris

I'm sure it was the book? It said book five, and mentioned something about archaon a struggle with belakor? I'll try find it just to double check

Edit: no no I got that wrong, apologies. I'm confusing what I read there with leaks I've seen sorry.


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## Einherjar667

Grand Legion of the Everchosen seems to be the new army list for this book 










That last pic.....


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## Zion




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## Einherjar667




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## Zion




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## venomlust

:laugh: Is that a new version of the same video we talked about on the previous page?


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## Zion

venomlust said:


> :laugh: Is that a new version of the same video we talked about on the previous page?


It's a new End Times video for the Archaon book that just came out today (the video, not the book).

So it looks like Archaon pre-orders should go live Friday.


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## venomlust

venomlust said:


> uaS5Zb8Auqs





Zion said:


> It's from today's blog post on the GW site. Knowing GW they uploaded it as private early and will make it public later.


Not entirely consequential, but it's the exact same video we talked about before, one page earlier in this same thread. Same URL and everything.


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## Zion

venomlust said:


> Not entirely consequential, but it's the exact same video we talked about before, one page earlier in this same thread. Same URL and everything.


Sorry, apparently I need to stop staying up until 1am reading BL books. It popped up on my feed on YouTube so I reposted it here without thinking. >_>


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## venomlust

Haha it's all good Zion, it just surprised me because you're the one who commented on it. You're in overdrive!


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## Zion

venomlust said:


> Haha it's all good Zion, it just surprised me because you're the one who commented on it. You're in overdrive!


Last 4 days I've been up until the early am reading. I've finished _Space Marine_, _Path of the Warrior_ and now I'm reading _Path of the Seer_.

So yeah, a bit of Overdrive.


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## Einherjar667

Ive been reading Malodrax, and I must say, GROSS!

But better to repost than not at all


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## Zion

> *via an anonymous source on Faeit 212*
> Khorne Wrathmongers/Skullreapers £34.50
> Plastic box set -5 Khorne Wrathmongers or 5 Khorne Skullreapers with the option of one standard bearer. The models come with 40mm square bases and the full rules in the box.
> 
> Warhammer: Archaon Hardback Edition £50
> A slip-cased, hardback, two-book set.
> The First Book is 256 pages of background, detailing Archaon’s final invasion of the Old World.
> The Second Book is 80 pages of rules, new campaign guides, and scenarios


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## Einherjar667

Want

wantwantwantwant


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## venomlust

DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOM: (via Warseer)


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## Kreuger

New chaos stuff is always a good thing. 

But why does Khorne have night goblin fanatics?


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## venomlust

I don't know, but I do know that I'll be buying this kit and using the bits for my 40k army.


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## Einherjar667

Night goblin fanatics? Whatd i miss?


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## Kreuger

Einherjar667 said:


> Night goblin fanatics? Whatd i miss?





venomlust said:


>












The whirling chain weapons are gimmicky and dopey. I thought they were dumb when forge world produced world eaters wielding them too. 

The other guys have good details, but are also missing something, or some quality is off. 
Not enough shoulder armour? 
Too much iron bustier?
Too much back-banner?
Weapons too silly? 

I'm not sure. 

Though if I had the time I'd be right there with @venomlust -these would be great for bits. 

Some of the pieces on there are definitely awesome though. The Skullreapers in particular would look excellent, once I remove the backbanners.


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## Einherjar667

The armor is laid out like overalls, haha. I think its functional though, so there arms aren't encumbered in combat. I will have to take a better look when Im at my computer though.


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## Charandris

Have been so excited about these new guys and I'm sadly dissapointed  
The heads bare heads, goofy mutations, I'll fitting chest plates and enormous clumsy leg and foot armour just make them look horribly dated. And has been said the back banners are just a bit ott. Gunna give these guys a miss.


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## Uveron

I like the Skullreapers.. But they are like alot of the recent WHFB stuff, a little to commicbook like... 

Where as the 40K stuff is looking more 'realistic' of late if that makes seance.


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## Einherjar667

The photography on the single model photos is awful, you can't tell where some of the banners begin and end. The website itself always has much better photos.


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## bitsandkits

i REALLY like those minis, they have so much possibilities for conversion its almost unfair,i will be buying man boxes to break up for bits no question.


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## Einherjar667

These are growing on me a lot. Theyre a bit exaggerated and cartoonish but I have a theory that these god specific kits will replace chosen+god mark in the new edition.


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## Zion

*



*


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## venomlust

Awesome videos! The White Dwarf is pretty good, but that is just a whole lot of detail.


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## Zion

venomlust said:


> Awesome videos! The White Dwarf is pretty good, but that is just a whole lot of detail.


Yeah, they serve as a good showcase of models, are nice and in depth tutorials, and sometimes they give me ideas for things.


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## Lord of the Night

Both the Wrathmongers and Skullreapers are awesome. Take the heads from the former and put them on the bodies of the latter and they become *MOTHERF***ING AWESOME*.

These boys are just begging to be converted into Khorne Berzerkers, or World Eaters Red Butchers.

Also Archaon! Will definitely be getting ahold of this, I want to see how the Warhammer World ends.


LotN


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## Vaz

Dejected and lonely after being rejected by the thousands of fans they've spent gorwing 30 years of fluff over to simply destroy in 1 year of ill thought out retardedness.


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## Einherjar667

Anyway.....

Looks like the tag line for the book is fairly ambiguous. Leaving it open as ti how deveatated the world ends up. My guess is it is saved but will require a lot of rebuilding. Rumours say 9th ed will be a few hundred years after the conclusion of the end times. (Not sure how characters ages will work with that though)


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## Lord of the Night

I always felt that Warhammer had the potential for a happier ending, or just less depressing, than 40k did. Perhaps Archaon will be where the good guys turn it around and start doing what the bad guys have been doing all through the End Times. Kick ass.


LotN


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## Einherjar667

Yeah, warhammer always felt to have a more stable world. Crowded but stable. I am looking forward to this one.


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## venomlust

Lord of the Night said:


> I always felt that Warhammer had the potential for a happier ending, or just less depressing, than 40k did. Perhaps Archaon will be where the good guys turn it around and start doing what the bad guys have been doing all through the End Times. Kick ass.
> 
> 
> LotN


I think that's the only possible outcome for this whole mess. Otherwise, what? The forces of evil just steamroll the "good guys" and then they roll credits? I'd sure love that, but there's gotta be some redemption and vengeance from the pointy ears and whatnot.


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## Einherjar667

Plus with how OP archaons army is, it would be pretty on the nose if he won.


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## LokiDeathclaw

Archaon is now up for pre order on GW UK website just ordered mine!!


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## Wookiepelt

So have I... now I've completed the full End Times set!


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## LokiDeathclaw

Wookiepelt said:


> So have I... now I've completed the full End Times set!


Me too! 3 soft backs 1 limited edition and Archaon in hardback to end the collection!


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## Lord of the Night

Wookiepelt said:


> So have I... now I've completed the full End Times set!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2va7sat9Zs

See 0:07 for my response to that.


I now have Thanquol and Archaon in hardback, the only two I gave a damn about. Khaine would have been on that list, had the supply for it not been f**ked up ten ways from Sunday. Truthfully if I had known that only five of these would exist, I would have gotten all five. Oh well.


LotN


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## Zion

Einherjar667 said:


> Plus with how OP archaons army is, it would be pretty on the nose if he won.


If he doesn't I wonder what mean name the internet will give him.


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## Einherjar667

Zion said:


> If he doesn't I wonder what mean name the internet will give him.



Yeah, Abaddon still isn't living that down, huh.


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## venomlust

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Wrathmongers

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Skullreapers

Here they are.


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## Lord of the Night

venomlust said:


> http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Wrathmongers
> 
> Here they are.





GW said:


> Lunatic _*murdersmiths*_ who are feared and revered in equal measure, the Wrathmongers are absolute in their fervent devotion to Khorne. Infused with the unnatural energies of daemons, they are the elite of the Chaos tribes and are unstoppable in battle, hurling themselves at their foe with unnatural vigour as their wrath-flails describe brutal, bloody parabolas.


Anyone think that Murdersmiths would have been a better name than Wrathmongers?? I can't really decide, but I could definitely see a Khornate unit called Murdersmiths, perhaps a Khornate Techmarine.


LotN


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## Wookiepelt

LokiDeathclaw said:


> Me too! 3 soft backs 1 limited edition and Archaon in hardback to end the collection!


I actually managed to get all of them in Limited Editions. Useful to have a indie shop owner as a mate so he always reserved one for me. 

I'm actually aware that this time round he has 20 copies of the Archaon coming into the shop!



Lord of the Night said:


> See 0:07 for my response to that.


lol!!!


----------



## venomlust

Haha yes, Murdersmith definitely sounds like a Khornate Warpsmith.


----------



## Einherjar667

Must preorder all KHORNE THINGS NOW!!!

Just preordered the books and a box of the Wrathmongers.


----------



## Zion

Einherjar667 said:


> Yeah, Abaddon still isn't living that down, huh.


Which kills me because the Black Crusades all accomplished their goals (save for 13 but that was retconned).


----------



## Einherjar667

Zion said:


> Which kills me because the Black Crusades all accomplished their goals (save for 13 but that was retconned).



Yeah, and he gets crapnfor having bionic arms too, like EVERY IRON HANDS EVER.

Ya know, if archaon succeeds... He WILL ascend to daemonhood.


----------



## Lord of the Night

Einherjar667 said:


> Must preorder all KHORNE THINGS NOW!!!
> 
> Just preordered the books and a box of the Wrathmongers.


Yeah i've actually decided to get a box of them myself along with the 7th DE Codex. I'm going to mix and match the parts and make Khornate CSMs out of them, not sure if they'd be Chosen or Berzerkers since the Zerks need to be in a unit of 10 or more to be effective. Maybe Khornate Chosen escorting a Khornate Lord with the Axe of Blind Fury.



Einherjar667 said:


> Ya know, if Archaon succeeds... He WILL ascend to daemonhood.


Having read the Archaon novels by Rob Sanders, I feel quite sure that no he won't. Archaon would never become a Daemon, he hates Chaos too much for that.


LotN


----------



## Einherjar667

Lord of the Night said:


> Yeah i've actually decided to get a box of them myself along with the 7th DE Codex. I'm going to mix and match the parts and make Khornate CSMs out of them, not sure if they'd be Chosen or Berzerkers since the Zerks need to be in a unit of 10 or more to be effective. Maybe Khornate Chosen escorting a Khornate Lord with the Axe of Blind Fury.
> 
> 
> Having read the Archaon novels by Rob Sanders, I feel quite sure that no he won't. Archaon would never become a Daemon, he hates Chaos too much for that.
> 
> 
> LotN



Yeah but chaos really doesn't give you a choice sometimes. If he wins, it can't JUST be chaos taking over the warhammer world as that would effectively just turn the entire world into the realm if chaos.

IE, it would be very bad. And i imagine the lizardmen coming to save the day at the 11th hour.

Also, what books? I wanna read 'em


Also,


----------



## Lord of the Night

Einherjar667 said:


> Yeah but chaos really doesn't give you a choice sometimes. If he wins, it can't JUST be chaos taking over the warhammer world as that would effectively just turn the entire world into the realm if chaos.
> 
> Also, what books? I wanna read 'em.


http://www.blacklibrary.com/Warhammer/archaon-everchosen-paperback.html

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Warhammer/archaon-lord-of-chaos-hardback.html

Those books. The Archaon duology by Rob Sanders, these books detail Archaon's life as a child in the Empire, his fall to darkness and then his search for the Six Treasures of Chaos. They also show exactly what Archaon thinks of Chaos, the Empire, Sigmar and humanity; and what he is really aiming for in his role as the Everchosen.


LotN


----------



## Einherjar667

Thanks. As a WoC player, i should know this stuff.


----------



## Kreuger

Einherjar667 said:


> Thanks. As a WoC player, i should know this stuff.


I've come to the conclusion that cool as some of the Black Library stuff might be, these days I just don't have the time to keep up. I'd rather read the chaos-wikipedia style article to get the big picture and move on. I don't fault anyone who does have the time though.


----------



## Einherjar667

Kreuger said:


> I've come to the conclusion that cool as some of the Black Library stuff might be, these days I just don't have the time to keep up. I'd rather read the chaos-wikipedia style article to get the big picture and move on. I don't fault anyone who does have the time though.



I know what you mean, i'd rather paint and examine the codexes and play than anything else in my free time. Plus, i read painfully slowly so it gets frustrating for me.

The thing i like about the BL stuff is that it gives insight into the personalities of certain characters. As in, how they talk, what theyre thinking, etc. Like how some of the WoC of chaos have honor and morals, or how the Space Wolves are more independent minded than a lot of chapters.

Lexicanum is pretty great though.


----------



## Lord of the Night

Kreuger said:


> I've come to the conclusion that cool as some of the Black Library stuff might be, these days I just don't have the time to keep up. I'd rather read the chaos-wikipedia style article to get the big picture and move on. I don't fault anyone who does have the time though.





Einherjar667 said:


> The thing i like about the BL stuff is that it gives insight into the personalities of certain characters. As in, how they talk, what theyre thinking, etc. Like how some of the WoC of chaos have honor and morals, or how the Space Wolves are more independent minded than a lot of chapters.


Fair enough to both of you, but in this case I would strongly recommend Sanders' duology as required reading to any fan of Archaon as a character. It explores him like never before, offering insights into his character that have never been revealed in the books or as far as I know on the websites. Archaon is a much more complex character than he appears, his motivations are far from what you'd expect, and his history is filled with twists that you'd never guess at from reading the Army Books.


LotN


----------



## Einherjar667

You've piqued my curiosity haha

I imagine if he doesn't die in this next book, he will play a big role in the extended lore of 9th ed. The yin to Karl franz's yang. Hell those dragon mounted lord rumors might be a 9th ed release over an ET release.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Einherjar667 said:


> You've piqued my curiosity haha


----------



## Einherjar667

Angel of Blood said:


>


Still need to see that movie.


----------



## Charandris

Just a crazy theory I've not seen elsewhere yet, maybe archaon won't get a new model because, he's gunna die and won't be back for 9th? Would put an end to the end times. Atleast for now? Maybe kill belakor too and end the whole scheme? Would then allow the world to recover as a new dark prophet of chaos is developed, after all archaon was the first everchosen? 
Just an idea.


----------



## Zion

Charandris said:


> Just a crazy theory I've not seen elsewhere yet, maybe archaon won't get a new model because, he's gunna die and won't be back for 9th? Would put an end to the end times. Atleast for now? Maybe kill belakor too and end the whole scheme? Would then allow the world to recover as a new dark prophet of chaos is developed, after all archaon was the first everchosen?
> Just an idea.


From what little I've heard in other threads, Archaon isn't dead.

Also Be'Lakor is also a 40k Daemon Prince. I don't see him going away that easy.


----------



## Einherjar667

Charandris said:


> Just a crazy theory I've not seen elsewhere yet, maybe archaon won't get a new model because, he's gunna die and won't be back for 9th? Would put an end to the end times. Atleast for now? Maybe kill belakor too and end the whole scheme? Would then allow the world to recover as a new dark prophet of chaos is developed, after all archaon was the first everchosen?
> Just an idea.



I was wondering that myself. But like Zion said, these dudes are pretty darn important. I am betting the apocalypse is quelled by Franz, but a new war between the new factions will from now in shape the 9th ed fluff.

I hope to see more Undivided chaos characters though.

Wonder who this is....


----------



## Charandris

Ah is forgotten about belakor being in 40k. Never mind then!
And that new character sounds cool, surely a new khorne character? I've been hoping for one as the bloodthirsters are great but are so expensive! I predict this guy is the equivalent to gutrot spume in that he's designed to go who th skullreapers.


----------



## venomlust

Be'lakor is far too clever to get killed by some pointy-eared chumps. He'll be back, in one way or another. You haven't seen the last of him!


----------



## Angel of Blood

Einherjar667 said:


> I was wondering that myself. But like Zion said, these dudes are pretty darn important. I am betting the apocalypse is quelled by Franz, but a new war between the new factions will from now in shape the 9th ed fluff.
> 
> I hope to see more Undivided chaos characters though.
> 
> Wonder who this is....


I see he got the Blood Angels treatment...... Bloodborn, Bloodwrath, Bloodstorm Blades, Blood Tally. Rather suprised he isn't wearing Blood Armour and riding a Blood Steed.


----------



## Einherjar667

Angel of Blood said:


> I see he got the Blood Angels treatment...... Bloodborn, Bloodwrath, Bloodstorm Blades, Blood Tally. Rather suprised he isn't wearing Blood Armour and riding a Blood Steed.



- Angel of Blood


----------



## Charandris

When do we expect to see this undying nut case then?


----------



## Mossy Toes

Bloodwrath the Bloodborn with his Bloodstorm blades? I'm surprised he's not a Blood Angel...

Edit: stiffed to the punch, I see.


----------



## Einherjar667

Charandris said:


> When do we expect to see this undying nut case then?


The BolS article says a few days, we might have photos. But who knows.

Wonder if that's going to be the only thing released then, or perhaps it will tie in with the supposed CSM release? (No one said this Skarr guy is a mortal, perhaps he is a Daemon clampack.)

Edit, nevermind, it's evident that he is a mortal as it states in that photo what armies he can be used in.


----------



## Lord of the Night

Names for that unit, bar his actual name, are cringeworthy. But that Bloodborn rule is pretty damn nice.

Another brand new image for Archaon has been released at BL, the second image in the first row of them in this article;

http://www.blacklibrary.com/new-at-bl/gwde-archaon-closer-look.html

Sigvald vs Krell. Now that is a fight that could go either way.


LotN


----------



## Zion

From Blog for the Blood God on Facebook:


----------



## venomlust

Those axes look dumb.:taunt:

Adios, world as we know it:

Spoiler tags next time if you please.

No, I don't think I will.


----------



## Lord of the Night

venomlust said:


> Those axes look dumb.:taunt:
> 
> Adios, world as we know it:
> 
> http://descansodelescriba.blogspot.co.at/2015/03/the-endspoiler-de-el-fin-de-los-tiempos.html


That should be in a spoilertag Venom.

But yeah. This is the way the world ends...


LotN


----------



## Angel of Blood

That's a spoiler?


----------



## FimirFever

Wtf that's the end?!.....so bubblehammer here we come? Or what?!...


----------



## venomlust

Apologies, _sincerely_, but I don't believe in spoiler tags.


----------



## Lord of the Night

Angel of Blood said:


> That's a spoiler?


Technically, since a leak cannot be 100% trusted.



venomlust said:


> Apologies, _sincerely_, but I don't believe in spoiler tags.


Well then at least only post the link, posting the image means people will see it even if they don't want to. If I hadn't already seen it then i'd be pretty angry.




I am quite surprised by Chaos' victory. I really thought that Warhammer would have a happier ending than everybody dies and is damned forever. Especially since Warhammer has always been a touch more upbeat than 40k, I really did think that the Incarnates would be able to defeat the Gods and save the world.

Here's hoping that everybody at least gets to die well.



LotN


----------



## Einherjar667

Looks like a beginning of a new chapter to ne


----------



## Angel of Blood

venomlust said:


> Apologies, _sincerely_, but I don't believe in spoiler tags.


Right, well I've edited them in. But that 'belief' can fuck right off. If your going to post spoilers, you tag them, whether you believe in them or not.


----------



## Kreuger

Very interesting. 

So does that mean the rest of this discussion needs to be in spoiler tags? 

If so here guess . . .



On the one hand this isn't all THAT surprising. The setting fantasy battle is most closely modeled on is that of Elric of Melnibone. And if you have read that, Chaos wins. Creation is unmade despite the valiant effort of the world's heroes and a new age without magic is born. 

I'm very curious what this means for the warhammer world. Clearly it's an ending, but what does that _mean_? 
I can see a definite advantage for GW to move their fantasy setting somewhere else either to a world more expressly in the 40k universe or even more intriguingly to a setting not beholden to Tolkien and "traditional" fantasy such as Elves, Dwarves, etc. 

So what are you all thinking? Which direction will GW go?


----------



## Einherjar667

Kreuger said:


> Very interesting.
> 
> So does that mean the rest of this discussion needs to be in spoiler tags?
> 
> If so here guess . . .
> 
> 
> 
> On the one hand this isn't all THAT surprising. The setting fantasy battle is most closely modeled on is that of Elric of Melnibone. And if you have read that, Chaos wins. Creation is unmade despite the valiant effort of the world's heroes and a new age without magic is born.
> 
> I'm very curious what this means for the warhammer world. Clearly it's an ending, but what does that _mean_?
> I can see a definite advantage for GW to move their fantasy setting somewhere else either to a world more expressly in the 40k universe or even more intriguingly to a setting not beholden to Tolkien and "traditional" fantasy such as Elves, Dwarves, etc.
> 
> So what are you all thinking? Which direction will GW go?



Earlier rumors pointed toward chaos equivilants of all factions. Wonder if that holds any water.


----------



## Zion

Well this will definitely give them elbow room to work with 9th ed and take it anyway they want.

I wonder if army lists will be in the core rules with eventual replacement by rulebooks later (ala 40k 2nd ed).


----------



## Einherjar667

Zion said:


> Well this will definitely give them elbow room to work with 9th ed and take it anyway they want.
> 
> I wonder if army lists will be in the core rules with eventual replacement by rulebooks later (ala 40k 2nd ed).



I was wondering about that. Otherwise, the rules would HAVE to work with 8th ed books right off te bat.


----------



## Kreuger

Zion said:


> I wonder if army lists will be in the core rules with eventual replacement by rulebooks later (ala 40k 2nd ed).


I hadn't even considered that. It would be a way to get a reasonably balanced product to market quickly.

The danger there is the same one 40k 2nd ed ran into, if you don't have an analytical system underpinning the army's skills and abilities the it becomes harder to produce quality, balanced army books. And in 2nd ed it took far too long to get that first run of codices out and the ability gap between a boxed game army and a codex army was significant.


----------



## Zion

Einherjar667 said:


> I was wondering about that. Otherwise, the rules would HAVE to work with 8th ed books right off te bat.


Considering the condensed army rules we've seen, I doubt that'll be the case.


----------



## Einherjar667

Zion said:


> Considering the condensed army rules we've seen, I doubt that'll be the case.



Didnt some of the rules say the 8th ed books would be usable with 9th?


----------



## Lord of the Night

Einherjar667 said:


> Earlier rumors pointed toward chaos equivilants of all factions. Wonder if that holds any water.


Just so long as one of these reborn races is the future Skaven, I am fine with it. The Skaven will never die, not even the apocalypse and the end of the world will destroy the Children of the Horned Rat!


LotN


----------



## Einherjar667

Lord of the Night said:


> Just so long as one of these reborn races is the future Skaven, I am fine with it. The Skaven will never die, not even the apocalypse and the end of the world will destroy the Children of the Horned Rat!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LotN



Im sure theyre going to be fine. Seems like theyre really popular, and pretty original


----------



## Zion

I would assume anything that got models in the End Times to be staying around for 9th.


----------



## LukeValantine

My feeling about the Archaon spoilers can be summarized in the following dialogue.

Me: "Oh boy I can't wait to see how the titanic ends"
Random person: "Everyone dies, durr"
Me: "I is now sad "


----------



## Lord of the Night

Zion said:


> I would assume anything that got models in the End Times to be staying around for 9th.


This is what I think;

Considering that the leaks have been right so far, lets assume they are all right. That means one race will be a "powered armoured army of light". Likely that means the remnants of the Empire, possibly with the Dwarfs joining them to create a coalition, along with the other survivors of the human factions.

The merging of the Elves makes me think that the High Elves, Dark Elves and Wood Elves are dead, but something new will emerge from that. An Elven race that bears the hallmarks of all three Elven societies, merging the older values of each culture and adding new ones as they find their way to forming a tight-knit society.

The Skaven will survive. I refuse to acknowledge any kind of alternative.

Chaos will still be around, it wouldn't be Warhammer without it. The Daemons will remain unchanged, but the Warriors and Beastmen may find themselves quite changed, or perhaps even changed entirely as Chaos finds new followers to work the will of the Dark Gods in whatever comes next for Warhammer Fantasy.

The Undead may find themselves continuing in some form or another. The Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings and General Undead (Nagash) could form some kind of new necromantic faction that will try to continue the Great Work that Nagash began.


LotN


----------



## Charandris

Explains why archaon never gets a new model. Not really sure how to absorb all that stuff on that little page. And I see no point in trying to figure out how both will work until it happens because how DO you remake all that which is to be undone? 
Very excited for what the new world will be like and to see what's happened to all the well known and much loved characters!


----------



## Lord of the Night

Charandris said:


> What's happened to all the well known and much loved characters!


Well it's a bit early to say, but I am pretty sure they all died. Except Grey Seer Thanquol, even the world ending couldn't kill him.


LotN


----------



## Wookiepelt

And now my End Times hardback set is completed!!!


----------



## Lord of the Night

Wookiepelt said:


> And now my End Times hardback set is completed!!!


...

You recall the previous post that I directed at you? See that again for my response to this.

Also, how the hell has Archaon arrived for you?? It's not meant to ship out yet.


LotN


----------



## LukeValantine

He is obviously some sort of witch.


----------



## Wookiepelt

Amazing what the four great powers will offer in return for selling your soul!!! :secret:


----------



## Charandris

Pretty sure k just read that 'the rules in archaon allow you to take as many lords and heroes as you like' in one of the paragraphs on skarrs rules page. Perhaps that's a part of the legion of the everchosen tht makes it special? It's just a massive game of hero hammer?


----------



## Zion

From the internets:

























And a spoiler from Warseer:


adicto said:


> Ungrim and the dwarfs defend Avenheim thanks to Gelt’s Crucible but, in the end, they sacrifice themselves while imperials and bretonnians flee. Ungrim’s slayers fight against Zhufbar’s hosts.
> 
> Nagash offers Mannfred to the elves as a sing of good will, snaring him in a prison made of death magic.
> 
> Be’lakor frees Mannfred and tells him the truth about Lileath. He is later found by Jerrod (Be’lakor’s plan all the time) and tells him the truth about Lileath. Jerrod lets Mannfred live, who then flees and calls her. She admits the truth, saying that she is the Lady of the Lake, and also that she pushed Bretonnia out of the Stone Age and saved them from the greenskins and themselves. She says that she won’t ask for forgiveness, because the sacrifice of Bretonnia was needed to create the Haven. Then Be’lakor appears when Jerrod is about to kill her. They both fight and the demon defeats Jerrod (but does not kill him), and turns to kill Lileath, but Malekith and Tyrion pop out and trap Be’lakor.
> 
> Jerrod returns to his people and tells them about the Lady. They decide not to fight alongside the treacherous elves, returning to Bretonnia. No more is known of them.
> 
> After the fall of Averheim, the Incarnates face the daemonic host. The battle is hopeless, so Lileath sacrifices willingly to Teclis in order to give him the needed power to move them to Middenheim. A titanic battle takes place there, and the incarnates travel to the caverns located beneath the city, where Archaon, the Swords of Chaos, and the 4 greater daemons with their respective hosts are waiting. Grimgor fights Arachaon and almost defeats him, but Archaon manages to kill the orc. Then Archaon faces Sigmar, the Emperor, who after a long battle defeats him, throwing him inside a rift created by the Old Ones’ artifact that the chaos guys activated to destroy the world. The surviving Incarnates, aided by Teclis (who now holds the winds of Fire and Beasts), try to close the rift. They could have succeeded, but Mannfred betrays his master (Nagash) killing Gelt. Teclis tries to absorb the wind of Metal, but fails and dies, so the rift feeds on them and sucks out all the Incarnate’s powers. Archaon appears again, climbing out of the rift, and faces SIgmar one more time. They both are last seen fighting against each other, with Ghal-Maraz being held by Archaon as Sigmar tried to smash him. Meanwhile, Malekith saves Alarielle from being crushed by debris, and then she and Tyrion turn their backs and walk away while the Eternity King dies in pain, with his legs crushed. They both look back at the growing rift while the darkness swallows them.
> 
> 
> Game Over.


----------



## venomlust

Angel of Blood said:


> Right, well I've edited them in. But that 'belief' can fuck right off. If your going to post spoilers, you tag them, whether you believe in them or not.


Right back at you. Couldn't care less if your panties get tangled over such things, and don't appreciate you editing my post. As a compromise, I removed the link. Nothing to be upset about for either of us this way.


----------



## Zion

Children, I'm going to say this once:

*Knock it the fuck off.*

ALL story spoilers are going to be put in spoilers for the benefit for those who don't want to know the ending before the read the book. Period. Any violation of that is going to result in an automatic infraction.

We're adults here, so act like it damn it.

EDIT:
The previously deleted story spoiler:


----------



## venomlust

Fair enough, I won't post stuff like that again. Didn't post it originally intending to spoil anything, but I can see how reading the content in its entirety would have done so.


----------



## Zion

venomlust said:


> Fair enough, I won't post stuff like that again. Didn't post it originally intending to spoil anything, but I can see how reading the content in its entirety would have done so.


It's fine to post it, but it needs spoilers. This isn't something that should extend beyond the End Times (unless Fantasy gets _another_ story campaign chronicling what happens next), but if this comes up again (say in 40k) just exercise some respect for others who don't want it spoiled for them.


----------



## Zion

More End Times stuff, this time pulled from /tg/. This time it's army comp:

















Looks like they might be easing people into building armies differently.


----------



## venomlust

I like the sound of those, so far. Never cared for the limits.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

People told me I was crazy but I knew it would end up like this. Let's see the mess they make of reviving it somehow, if it's anything like the way they destroyed it, the spark the game had will be dead


----------



## Zion

Words_of_Truth said:


> People told me I was crazy but I knew it would end up like this. Let's see the mess they make of reviving it somehow, if it's anything like the way they destroyed it, the spark the game had will be dead


I disagree honestly. The game was barely the thing the old timers bought into and desperately needed a drastic shift to turn things around. Frankly if the game is decent, and doesn't cost more than 40k to get into then I don't think it can fail, regardless of it appeal to vets or not.


----------



## Einherjar667

Zion said:


> I disagree honestly. The game was barely the thing the old timers bought into and desperately needed a drastic shift to turn things around. Frankly if the game is decent, and doesn't cost more than 40k to get into then I don't think it can fail, regardless of it appeal to vets or not.


I agree. This gives them the chance to scale things down to a more reasonable size, add new and more dynamic skirmish components, update ALL the models for the game, and create a new environment. New isn't always bad. Scary, indeed, but not bad.


----------



## Angel of Blood

I've only just got back into 40k TT recently, since about 4th ed. Still not looked at picking a fantasy army up due to all of this. So I'm gonna wait until all the dust has settled and we know what's what. But honestly, they would have to screw it up beyond complete recognition for me not to buy an army again.


----------



## bitsandkits

I think what we are likely to see is much less generic fantasy battle game, many of the core units of this game can be produced by third parties such as mantic at a reduced cost to the wargamer, GW know this and cant protect the IP as it stands, but if they wipe the slate clean, start afresh, rename everything, replace the range from the bottom upwards with fresh designes while allowing pre 9th minis as stand ins or equivalent to they can control there IP.
There is huge FU chapterhouse/mantic whiff about whats happening at the moment, but hey when you're on top of the pile the best way to get market share is to target those who tried to take it from you in the first place.


----------



## neferhet

well, that endtimes.. much ending, wow such times. demon-doge is impressed.


----------



## Zion

My theory regarding the game going forward:


I really don't think that we're going to be losing much from the game, just see some reorganization (maybe some reboxing) for the most part, assuming the combined army rumors are true. 

Alternatively we could just be picking up on a world similar to the Old World, but organized differently where a similar, but not identical story is playing out. This could allow GW to shuffle around motivations between different factions, redraw the map, place different factions against each other, and even change some of the history. 

Or we could see the End Times become the current setting with that "millenia to play out" thing becoming a part of the setting and the world being an even crappier place than it was. 

There is just a lot of possible outcomes going forward, and I know I'm only scratching the surface on what could be done with the setting.


----------



## Zion

Images of some of the story from Warseer:


----------



## Angel of Blood

If we do get the full reset and with it a new world. Imagine what it's gonna be like in ten years time or so. We'll have whole groups of players, some really experienced, that have never heard of Khemri, Lustria, Sylvania. Of so many of the heroes and villains that have died over the End Times.

Little crazy to think of huh?


----------



## Einherjar667

Angel of Blood said:


> If we do get the full reset and with it a new world. Imagine what it's gonna be like in ten years time or so. We'll have whole groups of players, some really experienced, that have never heard of Khemri, Lustria, Sylvania. Of so many of the heroes and villains that have died over the End Times.
> 
> Little crazy to think of huh?



Weird but... Makes te world take off a life of it's own. Imagine them releasing an game called "the forgotten times" where they revive that fluff. 

Alas, those places won't disappear rrom the fluff. They're not scrapping 100% of the models supposedly. So with that, the fluff to explain the origin of said models will remain.
Heck you can't have the Glottkin without Norsca. Remember their fate.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

I'm curious as to "whom" the flicker of light that was once a man is. Sigmar? Karl Franz? Professor Plum?


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I'm curious as to "whom" the flicker of light that was once a man is. Sigmar? Karl Franz? Professor Plum?


Maybe 9th will tell us.

From Natfka:


> *
> via an anonymous source on Faeit 212*
> here are the formation
> 
> 
> The Beast Waaagh!
> Grimgor Incarnate, 2 units of black orcs, orc boyz and Ogres, plus 1 unit of orc boar boyz, , ironguts, and leadbelchers, and 1 giant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Orcboyz and Orc boar boyz must be upgraded to big uns
> No units in the formation take animosity tests
> All units benefit from waaagh and can re-roll one or more dice for charge range.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Host of Shadow
> Malekith, 1 unit of black guard, phoenix guard, wildwood riders, darkshards, black arc crusaders, high elf spearmen and a War Hydra.
> 
> 
> no units have to take dangerous terrain tests and shooting attacks against Malekith or units within 12 are at -1 to hit
> Increases Steed of Shadow to 36, and can do so multiple times.
> 
> 
> Host of Life
> Alarielle, Durthu, nasetra and arahan-must be mounted, 1 treeman ancient, 1 handmaiden, 1 sisters of avelorn, 2 glade guard, 1 deepwood scouts, 1 wild riders, and 3 units of dryads.
> 
> 
> all units have regeneration, Durthu and treeman ancient get hatred against any enemy unit within 12 of Arielle.
> 
> 
> Host of Light
> Tyrion, Imrik, 2 high elf princes, 2 knight orders, 1 reiksguard, 1 demigryph knights, 2 lothern skycutters, 2 silver helms, and 1 unit of cold knights.
> 
> 
> Gain +d3 result in close combat if they charged this round.
> Hatred towards daemons and undead
> 
> 
> The Blood Hunt
> Wrath of Khorne, bloodthirster Insenate Rage, and 1 unfettered fury, 3 units of bloodletters, 1 of bloodcrushers, and 2 of flesh hounds.
> 
> 
> d3 units get vanguard deployment rules
> all have hatred and can re-roll failed charges.
> 
> 
> Army of Blight
> Isabella, great unclean one, 3 units of plague bearers, 1 of plague drones, and 2 units of nurglings.
> 
> 
> enemy units have -1 leadership, their generals inspiring presence is reduced by 6", and shooting attacks a -1 to hit.
> 
> 
> The Host of Death
> Nagash, Arkhan-mortarch sacrament, Krell mortrach despair, 1 unit of Morghasts, Morghasts Archai, Grave Guard, and Black Knights.
> 
> 
> Arkhan get a +3 bonus to casting results
> Grave Guard and Black Knight have WS5 and suffer two less wounds from unstable.
> 
> 
> Host of Fire
> Caradryan, 2 units of Asuryan, 1 unit of white lions, Har Ganeth executioners, and eternal guard.
> 
> 
> Asuryan must take flamespyre
> All models get devastating charge and flaming attacks
> Wake of Fire at +1 strength
> 
> 
> Throng of Metal
> Balthasar Gelt, runelord, 2 units of thunderers, 1 unit of irongdrakes and ironbreakers, 2 cannons, 1 organ gun. 2 gyrocopters
> 
> 
> +1 armour piercing and saves
> on a 5+ warmachines and units armed with ranged weapons can shoot again.


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## Charandris

Is that it for formations? Having not read the previous books I don't know how many are in a book. Just suprised to not see an archaon formation?


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## Zion

Table of Contents:


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## Wookiepelt

Battlescrolls :biggrin:


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## Words_of_Truth

Do people actually play with formations? They ain't caught on at my local store, nor has the 40k equivalents.


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## Vaz

40k yes. Fantasy no. Everyone's pretty much discarded it to see how badly GW fuck it up.

Formations however are pretty damn awesome as they allow small hotfixes (via White Dwarf, later publications etc) to hotfix the game dead easily by giving you benefits for taking a combination of units you wanted to anyway. It allows weaker unit collections to be more powerful without massively breaking game balance like a sweeping change to a Codex entry could reconfigure.

Imagine this; in 40K Khorne sucks. really badly. Low toughness, saves, and all that combined with pure assault only doesn't bode well. But wait; imagine a hotfix which makes Khorne units more viable? only catch is, you have to play with that particular collection of units.

The best formations to look out for are those which change up how something plays. For example, the BA Stormraven Formation which allows first turn assaults, or the Nid one which allows your Tyrant to go into ongoing reserves rather than take excessive damage. You're usually giving up Objective Secured for these benefits, so it better be worth it. Some, like Kharn's butcherhorde makes your units more effective at what they're going to be doing already. As fun as that is, it's like making melta's fire 2 shots. It doesn't really change much, apart from make X better at doing X, whereas they're still being beaten by Y.

There are some downsides though; mainly because the way Fortifications react, you can have a Battleforged Army with Tyranid Skytyrant Swarms, Necron C'Tan+Crypteks, Blood Angel Stormraven Assaulters, and Necron Super heavies knocking about and still be battleforged; but that rarely happens.


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## Angel of Blood

Vaz said:


> 40k yes. Fantasy no. Everyone's pretty much discarded it to see how badly GW fuck it up.
> 
> Formations however are pretty damn awesome as they allow small hotfixes (via White Dwarf, later publications etc) to hotfix the game dead easily by giving you benefits for taking a combination of units you wanted to anyway. It allows weaker unit collections to be more powerful without massively breaking game balance like a sweeping change to a Codex entry could reconfigure.
> 
> Imagine this; in 40K Khorne sucks. really badly. Low toughness, saves, and all that combined with pure assault only doesn't bode well. But wait; imagine a hotfix which makes Khorne units more viable? only catch is, you have to play with that particular collection of units.
> 
> The best formations to look out for are those which change up how something plays. For example, the BA Stormraven Formation which allows first turn assaults, or the Nid one which allows your Tyrant to go into ongoing reserves rather than take excessive damage. You're usually giving up Objective Secured for these benefits, so it better be worth it. Some, like Kharn's butcherhorde makes your units more effective at what they're going to be doing already. As fun as that is, it's like making melta's fire 2 shots. It doesn't really change much, apart from make X better at doing X, whereas they're still being beaten by Y.
> 
> There are some downsides though; mainly because the way Fortifications react, you can have a Battleforged Army with Tyranid Skytyrant Swarms, Necron C'Tan+Crypteks, Blood Angel Stormraven Assaulters, and Necron Super heavies knocking about and still be battleforged; but that rarely happens.


Where is this Blood Angel formation.....?


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## Vaz

White Dwarf 47.

It is a bit gamey, as Teleport Homers normally require starting the turn on the board, but that's not the case with this Formation.

Essentially, it's 3 Tactical Squads without DT's starting a game in 3 Stormravens, and gain a Teleport Homer for free; this formation can make reserve rolls from the first turn, and all models come on with one reserve roll.

Friendly Blood Angels faction units Deep Striking within 12" of two models with Teleport Homers can charge on the turn they Deep Strike and do not scatter.

This is why I find it a little bit gamey, as BA Teleport Homers normally requirely units entirely made of Terminator Armour and only work at the beginning of the turn at only 6"; but if you end within 12" of these 2 units, you can do it on the same turn, don't scatter, and the benefits of assault from Deep Strike (remember that Drop Pods are open topped, so allows Dreadnought Blending)

Note that IC's joining units are treated as part of the other unit for all purposes, so no taking things like BA Apothecaries in min/max Obsec CAD's, attaching the Apoths to another CC heavy Battle Brothers unit from a different faction and letting them rape face. However, the reverse actually does work; a Jump Pack Wolf Lord, or Shrike, or Khan+Drop Pod Death Company can happily eat face if they're attached to a Vanguard Assault Squad or something.

Note that being a Battle Brother unit (like say Deathwing Knights) in a BA Dedicated Transport with Assault/Open Topped will not allow you to either; the vehicle would be theoretically allowed to assault if it can make assaults, but the vehicle within cannot).

The big benefit though; you're still ObSec.

This formation comes to; 1020pts before upgrades however, meaning it's not too useful for other games; an 1850 list attempting to make some fun up with the allies lists could theoretically include something like Khan +5 Scouts = 180pts

That leaves you 550pts to spend on your BA BSF/CAD and upgrades for the Formation, including a heavy assault unit which can benefit from the Assault from 1st turn, as well as having another Scouting Infiltrating ObSec unit.

550pts is a Sanguinary Priest (490) and 2 Scout Squads (380).

If we say 300pts left after upgrades for the Formation, for a unit which can assault, that's 7 Terminators with 4 Thunder Hammers, or an 8 Man Vanguard Assault squad (infantry) with a Drop Pod coming in at 225; a Relic Blade for the Sergeant for 250, leaving 50pts for upgrades; if we say a 4 Meltabombs, that's 30pts; enough for a pair of Power Weapons. These fit the Baal Strike Force requirements, and so get +1 Initiative on the charge, in addition to +1 Strength from Furious Charge; if we take axes.
Edit; As it needs 10 men or less for the Drop Pod, that's 38pts left; +1pt for a Bolt Pistol on the Apothecary, and the Veritas Relic and an Auspex, and another Power Weapon.

So; in list form;

*Baal Strike Force;*
Apothecary, Bolt Pistol, Auspex, Veritas Vitae
Scout Squad
Scout Squad
Vanguard Veteran Squad, +3 Members, +3 Power Weapons, +4 Meltabombs, Drop Pod

*Allied Detachment; Space Marines (White Scars)*
Kor'sarro Khan
Scout Squad

*Angel's Fury Spearhead Force*
Tactical Squad, +5 Members, Teleport Homer (free), Meltagun, Multi-melta, Combi-melta
Tactical Squad, +5 Members, Teleport Homer (free), Meltagun, Multi-melta, Combi-melta
Tactical Squad, +5 Members, Teleport Homer (free), Meltagun, Multi-melta
Stormraven Gunship, TL Lascannon, TL'd Multi-melta
Stormraven Gunship, TL Lascannon, TL'd Multi-melta
Stormraven Gunship, TL Lascannon, TL'd Multi-melta

= 1848

It's a bit of a squeeze, but with the Veritas Vitae, you're you getting a chance at the reroll failed reserves. Considering you're relying on that to work (DPA occuring whether you want it to or not), you want to try and ensure that you get rerolls reserves, and a unit of Vanguard with Furious Charge, Hit and Run, and FNP coming down and assaulting first turn.

At higher points, you can have a bit more fun; i.e get more units benefitting from it.


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## Einherjar667

The Wrathmonger kit is amazing. The amount of options are insane. The armored heads are usable on the skullreapers even though there are two sets of torsos. The weapons are VERY cool. On par with the chosen from DV kit.

You can magnetize the waists and swap the upper bodies to make both out of one kit.

EDIT: and theres a beastman in the kit










So here's what i ended up with:


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## Zion

Clarification of that whole "no FOC" thing:




























Long story short: the rule applies only to Armies of the End Times, not every army ever. So reason 1, internet hyperbole 0.


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## Einherjar667

I saw that over on COTEC, thanks for affirming that here. Internet hyperbole needs to STFU.


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## Zion

Einherjar667 said:


> I saw that over on COTEC, thanks for affirming that here. Internet hyperbole needs to STFU.


Sadly it never will, so I prefer to just prove it wrong. 

Seriously, I said on Dakka I wanted more context on that and was mocked for it, but context proves me right (though someone still tried to tell me that GW will just FAQ it anyways....despite not FAQing the changes from Khaine). Basically the internet is a silly place and even when you prove them wrong they try to say they're still right.


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## Einherjar667

Zion said:


> Sadly it never will, so I prefer to just prove it wrong.
> 
> Seriously, I said on Dakka I wanted more context on that and was mocked for it, but context proves me right (though someone still tried to tell me that GW will just FAQ it anyways....despite not FAQing the changes from Khaine). Basically the internet is a silly place and even when you prove them wrong they try to say they're still right.



Ahhaha indeed. Deus ex FAQ. Reminds me of a coworker whos every rebutle to arguments is "DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT? *insert conspiracy theory here*

I can't wait for 9th to drop, for it to be as great as ever, and for everyone who didn't enjoy the ET to feel like a chump.

And at least we have a haven of level headed souls here(asrai.org and cotec are quite level headed as well)

*enjoying reading Archaon while the primer on my skullreapers dries*


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## Kreuger

Einherjar667 said:


> Reminds me of a coworker whos every rebutle to arguments is "DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT? *insert conspiracy theory here*


Here's the trick. You can always tell a conspiracy theory or paranoia because the purpose of both is to aggrandize the person who claims to be persecuted. THEY are at the center and the theory will revolve around them in some way. 

Paranoid people can still have actual enemies, they are just much less dramatic.


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## Einherjar667

I've noticed that style of personality a lot when it comes to negative internet personalities. On here, the comments section of bols, etc.

But anyone else enjoying this book? It's awesome, tons of Khorne stuff


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## Vaz

It's not Slaaneshi enough for me. Fantasy Slaanesh is amazing, much more so than 40k Slaanesh, IMHO.


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## Einherjar667

Vaz said:


> It's not Slaaneshi enough for me. Fantasy Slaanesh is amazing, much more so than 40k Slaanesh, IMHO.


I like Fantasy Slaanesh a lot too. Seems to work really well in the fantasy setting. The book is indeed VERY Khnorne-centric.

Gotta love the nod to 10k Sons in Vilitch's army.


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