# Lion Vs Night Haunter



## Jerushee (Nov 18, 2010)

Lion and Night Haunter fought, one versus one. Your impressions on the fight? I think the writter was purposely trying to display that Haunter was dominating Lion through the Fight and that if it went on Lion would have died.


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## grimdarkness (Apr 19, 2010)

Jerushee said:


> Lion and Night Haunter fought, one versus one. Your impressions on the fight? I think the writter was purposely trying to display that Haunter was dominating Lion through the Fight and that if it went on Lion would have died.


Thats not how I saw it. The initial duel of skill was dominated by the Lion. He seemed completely in control and was patiently wearing his opponent down. When the duel turned into a brawl Curze's abilities came to the fore, overwealming his brother. After the intervention of the astartes it seemed to turn into a straight fight, both fighting each other to exhaustion. But what struck me most was how much this fight seemed like a fight between brothers, not just warriors. The latter part in particular could have been two brothers squabbaling any time in any place. Other than the fact that the brothers in this instance are superhuman warriors of legend obviously. I really enjoyed this story, read it with a constant grin on my face.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

ALRIGHT BRO'S, I'VE GOT CAFFEINE GOING THROUGH MY VEINS, FANBOYISM GOING THROUGH MY HEAD AND I JUST RAN OVER A CAT.

*LET'S DO THIS MOTHERFUCKERS.*

I haven't actually read the book.

As a fan of both legions, I will be interested in having a good read of it however.

What is the book called?


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

It's from Age of Darkness, the story itself is called Savage Weapons by Aaron Dembski-Bowden.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Is that another one of those BS books thats a collection of short stories? I hate that garbage, make a long story with depth or not at all.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I was surprised that the Lion and Curze sort of "got on" together, even with Lion going as far to say he thought Curze could only be his true brother due to not growing up in a normal society or something. 

There was definitely a hint of brotherly love during the fight, both seemed to be toying with the other at one time or another, and the shouting match at the end up seemed to solidify it.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Jerushee said:


> Lion and Night Haunter fought, one versus one. Your impressions on the fight? I think the writter was purposely trying to display that Haunter was dominating Lion through the Fight and that if it went on Lion would have died.


Trust me, the writer wasn't displaying that. 



grimdarkness said:


> Thats not how I saw it. The initial duel of skill was dominated by the Lion. He seemed completely in control and was patiently wearing his opponent down. When the duel turned into a brawl Curze's abilities came to the fore, overwealming his brother. After the intervention of the astartes it seemed to turn into a straight fight, both fighting each other to exhaustion. But what struck me most was how much this fight seemed like a fight between brothers, not just warriors. The latter part in particular could have been two brothers squabbaling any time in any place. Other than the fact that the brothers in this instance are superhuman warriors of legend obviously.


Nailed it perfectly.



Warlock in Training said:


> Is that another one of those BS books thats a collection of short stories? I hate that garbage, make a long story with depth or not at all.


You mean something that's been a literary staple for centuries, and has just as much validity as any other writing, but you don't personally like it? Yeah, it's one of those.

I know what you mean. I need songs to be 800 hours long. Otherwise, they're just BS and have no depth, because quality and depth is determined only by duration.

Tsk, tsk.


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Trust me, the writer wasn't displaying that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gonna echo this, if we always used the same medium to tell stories life would be pretty boring. Look at Lovecraft, a collection of short stories but brilliant all the same.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Trust me, the writer wasn't displaying that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:goodpost:

lol owned


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

My impression was that the Lion was very cocky in the beginning. 



He even sucker-stabbed Curze at the beginning, but instead of carving Curze in half like what Corax tried to do to Lorgar, he prolonged the duel. Heck, the Lion's surprise-blow could have been a decapitation, but he probably chose only to wound. 

Anyway, that doesn't make the Lion superior to Curze because Curze could have surprise-attacked the Lion if he wanted to, he just didn't. It's kind of ironic that the loyalist primarch was the one who suddenly attacked.

During the sword duel, the Lion trash-talks Curze and sounds bored. He's dominating hard, but I think his arrogance kinda shows and he's over-confident. It seemed that if he took Curze more seriously he could have won at that point. Then Curze barrels into him, and the tables are turned. 

I'm not sure if Chaos had made Curze stronger by the time he fought the Lion, but it certainly seems possible. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the author was slightly biased in favor of Curze because after all he is the one writing the Night Lords series. Authors are only human and each probably has a favorite legion.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I personally thought the duel was more like a sparring session.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the author was slightly biased in favor of Curze because after all he is the one writing the Night Lords series. Authors are only human and each probably has a favorite legion.


With the greatest respect, that's a baseless assumption. As I said on B&C recently:

This really highlights one of the dangers of 40K. You write something with absolute neutrality; with no one winning; with both sides inflicting equal damage to one another; even with one side getting the advantage over a faction you usually write about, and still it's easy to see it as "This guy makes the Night Lords awesome all the time." Um. Like... when I make them cowards? When I make the Lion out to be the epitome of knightly valour and loyalty, while Curze is a suffering wretch who gets impaled by two sneak attacks? They got a cameo in The First Heretic, when Curze saves (and hates) the character I really like, and Sevatar is ordered to stop Corax, which he immediately fails to do. As cameos go, that's not exactly exalting them.

It's a conclusion a lot of fans leap to about authors, but has almost no basis in reality for many writers.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> You mean something that's been a literary staple for centuries, and has just as much validity as any other writing, but you don't personally like it? Yeah, it's one of those.
> 
> I know what you mean. I need songs to be 800 hours long. Otherwise, they're just BS and have no depth, because quality and depth is determined only by duration.
> 
> Tsk, tsk.





Gromrir Silverblade said:


> Gonna echo this, if we always used the same medium to tell stories life would be pretty boring. Look at Lovecraft, a collection of short stories but brilliant all the same.





Words_of_Truth said:


> :goodpost:
> 
> lol owned


Whew. Thank God I found out before hand. I wouldve been piss and a dollar short.  Also WTF is lovercraft? Never heard of it. Im more Wheel of Time, Dark Tower, and LOTR kinda guy. You know Stories with depth.k: But I guess to each thier own.... i also hate clowns..... but again to each their own.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Warlock in Training said:


> Whew. Thank God I found out before hand. I wouldve been piss and a dollar short.  Also WTF is lovercraft? Never heard of it. Im more Wheel of Time, Dark Tower, and LOTR kinda guy. You know Stories with depth.k: But I guess to each thier own.... i also hate clowns..... but again to each their own.


If you hate clowns you hate the author of the story we're talking about


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

:scare: No GW has been overunned!!!


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> i also hate clowns.....


You hate one of Black Library`s best authors?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

This story went into great detail about the increasing dellusion of the Lion, hunting and fighting enemies that for the most part...simply did not exist. The influence of chaos had been so deep running by this point that it was skewing and deeply coloring the Lion's paradign. Such as how he perceived Konrad as a corpse, different....he was in actuality projecting his own subconscious perception of himself onto konrad. The Lion was for the most part by this point in the war a walking corpse, sustained only by the calculative dellusion that empowered him, believing he was fighting for the enemy against chaos. When in fact he was fighting for Chaos, his loyalty and suspecion was used against him, Chaos knowing it could not turn Lion to their ideals or lack of them, instead chose to manipulate him by having him believe...it was the Emperor who he was following and fighting for. 

Why was he so far from Terra? He was adrift chasing the phantoms of his own mind through galactic space...regardless of who he would run into, xenos or astartes...his inner fractured subconscious would project unto them and he would perceive them as decayed...rotten....corrupt, and he would then bring himself to purge them, such as he tried to do valient konrad.

Ih actuality Konrad was in prime physical condition, pale skin with a glow of rich bounty and health...but regardless of what reality was that was not how Lion perceived him...due to how warped the Lions inner paradigm was and thus his external perception

Furthermore it was the Lion who struck first, this was because in his mind he saw Konrad approaching...a decaying corrupted traitor who was a threat to the Emperor. In actuality Konrad was a spectacle of selfless beauty, approaching his brother open armed, thus why he did not attack first. Konrad attempted to reconcile with Lion, knowing first hand of the terror of insanity, however Konrad had learned to meld with it, to grow from it, the Lion had decayed from it. By this point the Lion was a withered, decaying husk, his skin falling from his diminished frame. 

Konrad several times over the course of that fight attempted to speak reason to his brother...but Lion was just too far gone....to even perceive what was happening around him...he could only see his own internal conflict projected upon all that he gazed upon.

Great story, I think the writter did a excellent job.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> With the greatest respect, that's a baseless assumption. As I said on B&C recently:
> 
> This really highlights one of the dangers of 40K. You write something with absolute neutrality; with no one winning; with both sides inflicting equal damage to one another; even with one side getting the advantage over a faction you usually write about, and still it's easy to see it as "This guy makes the Night Lords awesome all the time." Um. Like... when I make them cowards? When I make the Lion out to be the epitome of knightly valour and loyalty, while Curze is a suffering wretch who gets impaled by two sneak attacks? They got a cameo in The First Heretic, when Curze saves (and hates) the character I really like, and Sevatar is ordered to stop Corax, which he immediately fails to do. As cameos go, that's not exactly exalting them.
> 
> It's a conclusion a lot of fans leap to about authors, but has almost no basis in reality for many writers.


Thats pretty much going to happen with any works. It even happens with those really close matches in sports. The losing side no matter the circumstances gets bashed in one form or another. I'm a Steelers fan, so you can imagine. 

Whether the Lion got out of the fight as a winner and loser is irrevelant in my opinion. He's proven his loyalty, but still lost... in a way. I think if the Lion was portrayed as kicking Curze's ass, everyone would forget the Lion's old perspective of him being a "fence sitter." The fact is, he still should have the label as Curze said that would be his fate. His close loss to Curze, highlights that moral defeat.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Lux said:


> This story went into great detail about the increasing dellusion of the Lion, hunting and fighting enemies that for the most part...simply did not exist. The influence of chaos had been so deep running by this point that it was skewing and deeply coloring the Lion's paradign. Such as how he perceived Konrad as a corpse, different....he was in actuality projecting his own subconscious perception of himself onto konrad. The Lion was for the most part by this point in the war a walking corpse, sustained only by the calculative dellusion that empowered him, believing he was fighting for the enemy against chaos. When in fact he was fighting for Chaos, his loyalty and suspecion was used against him, Chaos knowing it could not turn Lion to their ideals or lack of them, instead chose to manipulate him by having him believe...it was the Emperor who he was following and fighting for.
> 
> Why was he so far from Terra? He was adrift chasing the phantoms of his own mind through galactic space...regardless of who he would run into, xenos or astartes...his inner fractured subconscious would project unto them and he would perceive them as decayed...rotten....corrupt, and he would then bring himself to purge them, such as he tried to do valient konrad.
> 
> ...


So what your saying is his confrontation never happened?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> So what your saying is his confrontation never happened?


What happened in actuality, was that the Lion was drifting around the galactic edges of space, chasing the "phantoms" of his subconscious, which took on a perceivably real form for him to fight against, to alleviate his feelings of inner decay and corruption, failure.

His battle against Konrad, was his own mental projection of his subconscious, it took on the "form" of Konrad due to the Lion associating decay, fear, failure, death, insanity, conflict, with Konrad. But In actuality the "Konrad" he fought was his own projection of his own traits, feelings, emotions, conflictions, the decay he saw upon Konrad was a mirror reflection of his own self, the unholy strength he faced when fighting Konrad was in fact the overhwleming power of his inner conflict.

He was able to hold off "Konrad" AKA his subconscious projection at first by using skill, patience, expertise, mental clarity and state of mind with extreme focus...however once "Konrad" AKA his inner fear, conflict, hate of self, charged at him he lost his focus and patience. For he was now faced at point blank with his own self, the aspects of his own self he couldnt accept and refused to look at directly. This was represented in how Konrad began to brutally beat down the Lion, and yet no matter how deep the wounds the Lion inflicted on Konrad it never slowed him down...such as the impailing, the pierced spine, this is due to that the Lion couldnt physically kill, or consciously overcome his own internal conflict. Thus why Konrad continued to grow stronger while the Lion was diminishing, it was symbolic of his own state of mind and well being, that no matter how much focus he used to scaffle his fractured self, he was constantly decaying.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

ADB is that true?


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Dude... Did you not get one thing? He is Lux!


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Doelago said:


> Dude... Did you not get one thing? He is Lux!


I don't believe him and I don't know who he is as I don't frequent the forums as much as I'd like


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> ADB is that true?


Of course it isn't! :laugh: Its _Lux_, AKA the guy who firmly believes that the Emperor is both simultaneously a C'tan and Asuryan, that several Primarchs had paper mache heads, that Horus is the being sat on the Golden Throne guiding the Astronomican, that Alpharius and Omegon never existed, that the Chaos Gods are merely _"schisms"_ of the Emperor's personality, that Konrad Curze is an avatar of the C'tan Outsider, among many, many other things.


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

He is also one of the signs of the impending apocalypse


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Lux has a talent tho, Im sure the Imperial Propaganda machine would love to make use ofhis skills.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I don't believe him and I don't know who he is as I don't frequent the forums as much as I'd like


Though others may skew the paradigm I present regarding WH40k, I think...you should not be limited and confined in shape, form, or expression, by the orthodox point of view.

The beauty, and curiuos inquiry that the mind so creates with every passage read is infinite if one allows their self to drift and expand beyond the confine of "normality". 

Don't let others restrict what you see, and can see.


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## sonn (Nov 25, 2010)

ADB has probably knocked himself out from a facepalm after reading Lux's posts.


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

"you should not be limited and confined in shape, form, or expression, by the orthodox point of view" Lux

got it.....tzeentch is on the boards.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Lux said:


> What happened in actuality, was that the Lion was drifting around the galactic edges of space, chasing the "phantoms" of his subconscious, which took on a perceivably real form for him to fight against, to alleviate his feelings of inner decay and corruption, failure.
> 
> His battle against Konrad, was his own mental projection of his subconscious, it took on the "form" of Konrad due to the Lion associating decay, fear, failure, death, insanity, conflict, with Konrad. But In actuality the "Konrad" he fought was his own projection of his own traits, feelings, emotions, conflictions, the decay he saw upon Konrad was a mirror reflection of his own self, the unholy strength he faced when fighting Konrad was in fact the overhwleming power of his inner conflict.
> 
> He was able to hold off "Konrad" AKA his subconscious projection at first by using skill, patience, expertise, mental clarity and state of mind with extreme focus...however once "Konrad" AKA his inner fear, conflict, hate of self, charged at him he lost his focus and patience. For he was now faced at point blank with his own self, the aspects of his own self he couldnt accept and refused to look at directly. This was represented in how Konrad began to brutally beat down the Lion, and yet no matter how deep the wounds the Lion inflicted on Konrad it never slowed him down...such as the impailing, the pierced spine, this is due to that the Lion couldnt physically kill, or consciously overcome his own internal conflict. Thus why Konrad continued to grow stronger while the Lion was diminishing, it was symbolic of his own state of mind and well being, that no matter how much focus he used to scaffle his fractured self, he was constantly decaying.


This reminds me of the movie _Vanilla Sky._ :laugh:


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

Aw snap Lux is here on this thread? Quick get your blinders on, we don't know when he might blindside us with claims that Gork and Mork are actually the pinky toes of the God-Emperor given sentience and that they went through the warp to the War in Heaven to help create the Old Ones and the Orks!


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## Westhahl (Jan 29, 2015)

Lux said:


> This story went into great detail about the increasing dellusion of the Lion, hunting and fighting enemies that for the most part...simply did not exist. The influence of chaos had been so deep running by this point that it was skewing and deeply coloring the Lion's paradign. Such as how he perceived Konrad as a corpse, different....he was in actuality projecting his own subconscious perception of himself onto konrad. The Lion was for the most part by this point in the war a walking corpse, sustained only by the calculative dellusion that empowered him, believing he was fighting for the enemy against chaos. When in fact he was fighting for Chaos, his loyalty and suspecion was used against him, Chaos knowing it could not turn Lion to their ideals or lack of them, instead chose to manipulate him by having him believe...it was the Emperor who he was following and fighting for.
> 
> Why was he so far from Terra? He was adrift chasing the phantoms of his own mind through galactic space...regardless of who he would run into, xenos or astartes...his inner fractured subconscious would project unto them and he would perceive them as decayed...rotten....corrupt, and he would then bring himself to purge them, such as he tried to do valient konrad.
> 
> ...


This reminds me of the guy who said "Night of the Living Dead was a social commentary on fear and communism." When they asked George A Romero about underlying messages in the movie, he said "We just wanted to make a good movie, a scary movie."

Lux is waaay off on this one. Swing and a miss. Classic mistake of trying to add meaning where there is none.

Might want to buy a Jump to Conclusions Mat. Hear there is a guy named Tom who sells them.


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