# Chaos Lord on Dragon Loadout



## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Now I made a thread in rules asking about what effects the entire model and concluded that one item in the chaos book will truly benefit the dragon, the collar of khorne...

This item gives the model MR2 and a 6+ ward, my idea was to combine it with Mark of Tzeentch and the Sword of Hellfire.

With 11 attacks, the lord should should do really well against rank and file, combined with the hellfire sword which should make a real mess of characters and monstrous creatures (it's flaming too! lol).

This combo gives the dragon a 5+ ward along with the lord and MR2, which adresses its two biggest vulnerabilities (at least a little) and decreases substantially the threat posed by crossbows/handguns.


----------



## Yilmar (Sep 12, 2009)

It sounds more like you want to take out the vulnerability of your dragon by bending the rules a bit.
In my opinion magic items are only meant for the wearer unless the item specifically notes it also applies for the mount.
Cause if I do use the same reasoning that you use then the Empire's white cloak can also be applied on my griffon, which is truly insane.
The description of the cloak mentions that the magic item gives a 5+ WS which is improved to 2+ against flaming attacks, but doesnt mention that it applies to the wearer or model.
So still using you reasoning I can assume its used for the model entirely.

And that's just wrong...


----------



## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

magic items only apply to mounts if explicitly mentioned.


----------



## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

The MR would pass on but the ward save will not.

Really alot of dragon lord combos can be very nasty but do get extremely costly, leaving you with very few models on the table, this is especially true of chaos, with the "naked" lord being crazy expensive anyway


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Honestly, I'd just give the Lord the Enchanted Shield and maybe the Aethersword or Chaos Runesword, and call it a day with that. The dragon is expensive, but it's a tough nut to crack. If you're worried about it getting shot, it may not be worth bringing-- if you play against shooty armies a lot, you may be better served by having your general in a unit of Warriors or Knights. 

As a Warriors of Chaos player, I'm really not a fan of the monstrous mounts. It's not that they're not good-- it's just that points are at such a premium in the army that dropping 300 points on a mount doesn't seem as cost-effective as just bringing another unit of 15 warriors with a mark, full command, halberds, and shields. I run a Lord in my armies, but I try not to let it go over the 350-point mark-- I just can't justify spending 700-900 points on a single model, impressive though it may be.


----------



## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

I think letter of the law it will get the ward save and the bonus from the MoT. In the BRB it states that a model on a monstrous mount is counted as one model for all purposes, the collar of khorne description states that the model receives the benefit, according to RAW this means that the 5+ ward applies. I do agree this is sneaky/cheesy but it's also completely legitimate/legal and not cheating, the difference between this and others is it specifically states model, not wearer and doesn't lack an assignment specification (the cloak lacks a description at all, whilst the term 'model' is inclusive of the entire 'thing').

P. 50. 
"Count as a single model in the same was as a cavalry model..."

The collar of khorne:
"The model....."


----------



## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

The Son of Horus said:


> Honestly, I'd just give the Lord the Enchanted Shield and maybe the Aethersword or Chaos Runesword, and call it a day with that. The dragon is expensive, but it's a tough nut to crack. If you're worried about it getting shot, it may not be worth bringing-- if you play against shooty armies a lot, you may be better served by having your general in a unit of Warriors or Knights.
> 
> As a Warriors of Chaos player, I'm really not a fan of the monstrous mounts. It's not that they're not good-- it's just that points are at such a premium in the army that dropping 300 points on a mount doesn't seem as cost-effective as just bringing another unit of 15 warriors with a mark, full command, halberds, and shields. I run a Lord in my armies, but I try not to let it go over the 350-point mark-- I just can't justify spending 700-900 points on a single model, impressive though it may be.


I have an unhealthy obsession with big models, dragons especially, my motivation for the army was the dragon, so I tend to be insistent about using it


----------



## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

P50 in what? my rulebook p50 deals with fear, its not the big one but i think the pages are same. i think you mean p59 

As far as wounds are concerned they are treated as different objects the sentence is there to say that the character cannot dismount. When they are attacked they count as 2 SEPARATE targets. The ward saves do not apply to the mount 

Also the rules for MoT says a W-S for the bearer, the dragon is not the bearer the lord is

Dragons are fantastic models and I think alot of us started playing due to great monsters and dragons but don't use them as a way to abuse the rules.


----------



## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

I think this is covered under the general ruling in the FAQ (BRB FAQ, Part 1, P5, 2nd question under "Miscellaneous"). Basically, items, special rules and anything else don't transfer from rider to mount (or vice versa) unless specifically mentioned (or if it's part of something that always transfers, like psychology or magic resistance).

It could be read differently, or argued that the Collar says "the model", rather than the character, but I think in general, people will just say "no."

That's my impressions at least, hope it helps


----------



## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

Maddermax has hit this one right on. It must specifically state it transfers to the mount, or be something that always transfers such as MR, otherwise it only effects the rider. Armour saves and Ward Saves will NOT transfer without specific lines stating that it applies to the mount as well.

Think about it logically. Why would a dragon get a bonus for the breastplate the rider is wearing? Read your FAQs, and don't try to exploit.


----------



## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Ok, I checked the FAQ and you were right, it doesn't pass to the mount, sorry.

What would you think of giving the BSB the doom totem (-1 LD) and the dragon Diabolic splendour, in conjunction with one another most enemies will be testing at LD7 or so, good chance of making enemies break and run, especially war machines which are the biggest threat.

Anyways, let me know what you think of that idea.


----------



## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Ouch, sounds nasty. You'll still have the problem of taking fire for the first round or two, such is the fate of all large targets, but that will be nasty when it mixes it up with the enemy army.


----------



## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

this is the kit i take on my dragon lord i take to tourneys

lord
nurgle
aethersword
crown of everlasting conquest
shield
soporific musk 
chaos dragon...called mittens


----------



## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

The other item i would consider on the dragon lord is the blashemous amulet, its useful when assulting large units solo and is great against units that rely on good armour like knights, other chaos guys and dwarves. I always thought that the athersword was too expensive, the lord inflicts a negative save anyway due to his strength so I prefer either a sword of striking really gaining an advantage of the lords crazy high WS or a bitting blade as its so cheap if points are tight


----------

