# CSM Traitor Legions Codex Rumor



## MaidenManiac

Found this at the interwebz:


Cred to BigRed and Warseer's ghost21



> -i really really shouldnt but, ive only seen a dreadnaught of the two mentioned (regarding a previous report of new plastic Chaos Dread and Raptors)
> 
> -To quickly add. will lesser chaos gods feture. yes n all of the fallen legions will be there
> 
> -saw preliminary types for khonate chrono gladiators... and a really bizarre night lord assassin type thing...
> 
> -oh im sure if people want a new abaddon.. i saw one but really it isnt much...
> 
> -little horus on the other hand... now there's a wow figure
> 
> -there was a little heated discussion weather alpha legion should be in this or the traitors dex... there in the legion dex
> 
> -the new abaddon as really it just seems bigger n bulkier, like somebody 3d scanned it n made him larger
> 
> -the minor chaos gods are already named, its like marks though, no daemons
> 
> -i did see a dark mechanicus guy... not sure if he will make it though, a very creepy sculpt based on a john Blanche piece
> 
> -this is really something to be taken with a grain of salt there may may be a 30k boxed set at some point, containing one of each of the legions
> characters
> 
> -oh one last thing its ward


Lets hear some noise


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## Warsmith Drewgie

:yahooamn I can't wait!


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## Azezel

Wowee. Another marine book. Be still my god damned heart...


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## Lord of the Night

YES! The Legions are back!

Little Horus and a new Abaddon figure?! Nicely done GW.

Night Lords assasssin?........ MUST GET!! MUST GET!!

The John Blanche Mechanicus is likely a Tech-Assassin.

A 30k boxed set? Now that would be a good move by GW, a very good one. Many people want a Horus Heresy army, myself included, and a boxed set for Night Lords would be my dream come true.


Lord of the Night


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## elmir

Oh god... Special snowflake syndrome is now making people say chaos and marines are exactly the same. And I thought it was already pretty bad when they considered GKs to be exactly like marines... -.-

Aparently, these rumours aren't exactly waterproof. There were already some very strong murmurs that Phil Kelly would be doing chaos legions according to some dude who had a chat with Ward at games day...


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## Doelago

Sounds awesome!


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## Warsmith Drewgie

Even though Chaos dreads suck a plastic one would be nice. I might actually consider fielding a 2 cc arm dread for a cheap elite choice. I am also looking forward to seeing my Emperors children havocs make a come back. Also if the god specific legions are done like in the 3.5 dex with the rules the cultist units (berzerkers plaguers etc) have in the current dex that would be sweet. T6 bikers with feel no pain, or chosen with WS5 and furious charge. I am sure you won't be able to mix them, but it would be pretty awesome none the less. Oh by the way I'm just wish listing. None of the things I mentioned are fact, it's just my hope and speculation.


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## whiplash308

-breathes in heavily with lines of salt in front of him-

I've heard that the rest of the codex writing team is getting scrapped and that Matt Ward is soon going to take care of almost all of the codexes. Should these rumors be true, I'll definitely hop right on this. I still have faith in Chaos being a possible mid-late 2013 release, while I have also heard Eldar (another army I play) will be the last 5th ed. codex shaped towards 6th ed., as they have done with the current one (4th to 5th). Let's see how stuff goes.


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## Zion

whiplash308 said:


> -breathes in heavily with lines of salt in front of him-
> 
> I've heard that the rest of the codex writing team is getting scrapped and that Matt Ward is soon going to take care of almost all of the codexes. Should these rumors be true, I'll definitely hop right on this. I still have faith in Chaos being a possible mid-late 2013 release, while I have also heard Eldar (another army I play) will be the last 5th ed. codex shaped towards 6th ed., as they have done with the current one (4th to 5th). Let's see how stuff goes.


I don't know, first people are saying Ward was being fired, and now it's the other way around? Either way I don't see it happening since GW seems to keep their writers until said writers decide to move on to other things.


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## GreatUncleanOne

Bet nurgle gets screwed over!

I really hope the different lists are feasible and divergent enough without being forced to take a named char.

I don't hold much hope though. GW are almost forcing you to take a named char if you want a themed army.

I have a nurgle daemon army and refuse to use either of the named chars. And I still win! Take that GW

I won't be too pleased if ward does the codex but will wait till its done before passing judgement. I mean it can't possibly be worse than the current chaos dex. Can it?


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## yanlou

Azezel said:


> Wowee. Another marine book. Be still my god damned heart...


Its not just "Another Marine" codex you know, its chaos and if its done right will play alot different then what it does now, which is virtually marines with spikes, ableit with a few chaotic units and rules.



whiplash308 said:


> -breathes in heavily with lines of salt in front of him-
> 
> I've heard that the rest of the codex writing team is getting scrapped and that Matt Ward is soon going to take care of almost all of the codexes. Should these rumors be true, I'll definitely hop right on this. I still have faith in Chaos being a possible mid-late 2013 release, while I have also heard Eldar (another army I play) will be the last 5th ed. codex shaped towards 6th ed., as they have done with the current one (4th to 5th). Let's see how stuff goes.


I highly doubt they'd leave releasing the Chaos Codex till then, late next year at the latest(i hope) as there one of the major enemies to the Imperium and quite a popular army.

Im glad we're starting to hear more rumors about the next Chaos Codex, even tho i will take it all with a big pinch of salt. As a mainly Chaos player i can not wait for them to get a new codex and models and i hope they come out before the Eldar.


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## slaaneshy

Not a huge amount to get excited about just yet in my view.
While I usually slate Ward at any opportunity, the fact is GW seem to love him, and he does now need to write ALL codex's in order to keep things balanced - once all the armies are branded with his cheese the game will have the same feel again.


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## Judas Masias

As long as they don't fuck over the Death Guard i will have no problem with the new Codex.


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## GrimzagGorwazza

GreatUncleanOne said:


> I mean it can't possibly be worse than the current chaos dex. Can it?


Why would you jinx this? WHY!?!?!?!?!?!


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## Fallen

as long as both mono-god armies, and "black legion"-like are able to be played effectively. also i hope there is little/no bias on what gods are are favored like currently.

Go Go Noise Marines!

Edit: and no icon crap, minus the DS rule, make it marks


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## MidnightSun

I will treat these rumours very sceptically. Isn't 30K Forge World's thing, not GW's?

I'd like to see a cross between 3.5 and 4th edition books - the customization of 3.5 with some of the simplicity in 4th. Hell, points cost decreases across the army, proper Daemons, more Cult Troop options (Noise Terminators etc.) FoC-changing Characters and maybe Preferred Enemy: Space Marines and 4th is looking a lot better.

Midnight


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## Perriwinkléé

As long as MoN gives actual T5, that awkward mark rule goes in the bin and the fluff doesn't get ruined I'm happy.


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## Stephen_Newman

Dunno what to make of this...

The fact Little Horus is mentioned intrigues me since GW do not normally have the rights to Black Library characters until they are killed off. One of the reasons why Honsou is unlikely to appear in the next Chaos Codex. This makes me wonder if Horus Aximand is due to be killed off soon on the Horus Heresy series.

Also I doubt we will see a return to the legion characteristics of the 3.5 Chaos Codex. The fact is no matter how fluffy and fun the little things were many people just used it to take advantage of the system. Like having 80 fearless, infiltrating scumbags covering for the daemon drop next turn. Its why there is little creativity in the standard marine dex because the traits system was abused by so many players.

As for Ward writing it. I was under the impression that Cruddace was among the top most likely to write it. With Kelly doing Tau I was under the belief that Ward would be doing Eldar.

Which leads me onto a rant. I am getting annoyed by the amount of people who keep moronically stating (in my eyes) that Chaos deserve an update more than Eldar. That is complete crap. Eldar are not only an older codex but also lot the creative side with the loss of Craftworld Eldar codex like Chaos. We also only have a very few viable units and literally only 1 HQ (2 if you count Eldrad) and only have 1 main build, Mechdar. In addition with the arrival of Necrons and the update to DA and BT Eldar have now actually slipped into the bottom tier of competitive codexes. Chaos have not since they were designed with 5th edition in mind. Eldar were not and only them and Tau fall into that category.

Then again I might be biased as a massive Eldar player. Have fun musing although I would love a 30K based game. Although I would love the re-appearance of Doomrider in the next Chaos Codex. It would be the only acceptable reason to put them above Eldar in terms of codex release.


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## Warsmith Drewgie

Some of the rumors I have heard was that your eldar are going to be getting a new dex sometime next year. There was some speculation that they might be one of the armies in the starter box for next edition. Of course there were also rumors that it would be Tau or loyalist marines again. The rumors I have heard about next edition was that chaos is going to be the big threat and the spotlight on "good guys" is going to veer off the imperium in favor of some of the xenos like Tau, and Eldar. So even though Chaos is going to get it's legion rules back, your Eldar will be getting some much needed love too.


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## Uber Ork

whiplash308 said:


> -breathes in heavily with lines of salt in front of him-
> 
> I've heard that the rest of the codex writing team is getting scrapped and that Matt Ward is soon going to take care of almost all of the codexes. Should these rumors be true, I'll definitely hop right on this.



Upon first reading your comment, I was tempted to cry preposterous. However, Ward _*has*_ written the lions share of 5th ed dexes. He's authored twice the number (4) as Kelly (2) and Cruddace (2) have. 

- Space Marines ('08) = Ward
- Imperial Guard ('09) = Cruddace
- Space Wolves ('09) = Kelly
- Tyranids ('10) = Cruddace
- Blood Angels ('10) = Ward
- Dark Eldar ('10) = Kelly 
- Grey Knights ('11) = Ward
- Necrons ('11) = Ward 


While I'm not inclined to think GW would shelve a talent like Phil Kelly (Cruddace maybe, the nid dex is terrible), I must admit Ward's done something to impressed the top brass as of late. Not only has he written twice as many dexes as Kelly and Cruddace, but he's also authored the last two dexes back to back. I guess that could constitute (as you said) taking _"care of almost all of the codexes."_ 

I guess I'm unclear on what "scrapping" means? It seems highly unlikely to me that one guy could handle writing all the codices in a timely manner and maintain a high level of quality. But then again, he did just write two back to back so... :dunno:

Where did you get this information?






On a side note... the inclusion of 30K characters would be AMAZING!!! Would most likely mean the future Marine dexes would do the same? Hmmm... 





.


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## Count_the_Seven

Played my first ever tournament a few weeks back.


Themed Death Guard army. Spanked.

The Chaos SN Codex is Shit. It, more than my inexperience cost me IMO so personally I am holding my breath for a summer 2012 Legion Codex release...

CtS


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## MidnightSun

You forgot Sisters 

I hope it's written by Kelly. He did Dark Eldar, which I think is one of the best 5th Ed. codices.

Midnight

EDIT:



Count_the_Seven said:


> The Chaos SN Codex is Shit. It, *more than my inexperience *cost me IMO so personally I am holding my breath for a summer 2012 Legion Codex release...


That's poor, really, it is. A skilled player can win with Chaos, it just takes more effort. Hell, I got beaten by the old Necrons just two weeks ago (I did make a game-losing mistake, but my point still stands).


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## Count_the_Seven

Only two CSM forces out of 32 that weekend. One finished 7th, mine 32nd. Some bad rolls and bad decisions, but playing a themed CSM force is IMO not viable with that codex.

I can evolve my force but it won't be DG. The other player was experienced and that showed. Both forces were beautifully painted though!

:biggrin:


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## LukeValantine

Hell I just want a new book, as long as its playable I don't give a damn who writes it at this point.


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## hungryugolino

Dark Gods preserve us from Ward.


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## Achaylus72

I'll believe it when i see it.

And as for Matt Ward doing both CSM codexes, looking forward to it, can't wait. Go Matt Ward.


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## Demon Prince

May the Chaos Gods give Matt Ward the the strenght and wisdom to make an epic CSM codex.


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## Justindkates

Anything would be better than the horrible abortion Chaos has now. Anything, a damn WD update.


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## Styro-J

I could definitely see Ward doing Chaos. He could probably come up with some pretty cool stuff, too.

Someone's post earlier caught me off guard. Is it confirmed that Phil is doing Tau?


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## Zion

Justindkates said:


> Anything would be better than the horrible abortion Chaos has now. Anything, a damn WD update.


Speaking as someone who owns a chaos army, and is currently working heavily on an army that was White Dwarfed, you might not really want that.


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## Achaylus72

Zion said:


> Speaking as someone who owns a chaos army, and is currently working heavily on an army that was White Dwarfed, you might not really want that.


Exactly that thriced damned Sisters of Battle White Dwarf articles in my opinion were an insult to SoB players.

GW should have held off until 6th Ed and then done a complete SoB overhaul.


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## jondoe297

The idea of little horus is AWESOME! Not likely I suppose but non the less is exciting!
Chaos are my 'main army' so am well excited to hear the rumour mills kicking in. I for one am not fussed on ward writing the dex, his fluff maybe a bit skewed but he creates viable dex's with many variant builds which is only a good thing, and for fluff we have black library. I believe someone mentioned kelly might do it? Now that would be awesome, recently picked up the DE codex and I am so impressed with it! 
So waffle over! Gist is - New Chaos Space Marines? not spiky marine? F#@K YEAH!


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## mcmuffin

Stephen_Newman said:


> Dunno what to make of this...
> 
> Which leads me onto a rant. I am getting annoyed by the amount of people who keep moronically stating (in my eyes) that Chaos deserve an update more than Eldar. That is complete crap. Eldar are not only an older codex but also lot the creative side with the loss of Craftworld Eldar codex like Chaos. We also only have a very few viable units and literally only 1 HQ (2 if you count Eldrad) and only have 1 main build, Mechdar. In addition with the arrival of Necrons and the update to DA and BT Eldar have now actually slipped into the bottom tier of competitive codexes. Chaos have not since they were designed with 5th edition in mind. Eldar were not and only them and Tau fall into that category.


Sorry, but Foot-dar trump mechdar in almost every way. The eldar codex is quite nice, and still very competetive, but i agree it needs a small update.



hungryugolino said:


> Dark Gods preserve us from Ward.


Yeah, god forbid we get a competitive codex with a multitude of viable builds.


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## GreatUncleanOne

I hope that ward doesn't write the fluff. In MY opinion he just sucks at it. Can't really complain about the rules he writes but I just think he should never be allowed near the keyboard when the fluff is getting written.

Now before anyone accuses me of blind ward hatred you can bog off!! It is my opinion and unless matt ward suddenly gets good at writting fluff I sincerly doubt I will change my mind.

I also hope that GW get over their nurgle hate. On the whole they don't seem to like him very much either rules wise or models. Forgeworld on the other hand love him to bits with all their cool models and rules (well I suppose they love khorne too). I just wish I could afford FW

And GW can we please be able to play a themed army without taking a bloody stupid named char just so you can grab more money from the kiddies! I refuse to use named chars and I target them with a vengeance!! (DIE!!)

So to end my mild rant. I love Nurgle (as a friend)


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## Sephyr

Despite being a Chaos player, I do feel Eldar might be more justified in getting their update sooner. Both dexes have a similar metagame rationale, in fact: KISS with limited options (wargear selection for Autarchs and Farseers is nothing compared to the panoply of toys modern HQ's get, even if they do get nice things) and no rules with sharp edges newbies might hurt themselves with.

However, Eldar do have the advantage of still fielding a specialist army in many ways, which tends to reward good play more than the CSM book does. I'll go on record saying that Fire Dragons, a seer council (or jetseer council), jetguardians, banshees and Farseers make for more lethal synergy than the cream of CSM stuff played at a similar level of skill. (This is anecdote. Take it with as many grains of salt as needed).


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## Zion

Sephyr said:


> Despite being a Chaos player, I do feel Eldar might be more justified in getting their update sooner. Both dexes have a similar metagame rationale, in fact: KISS with limited options (wargear selection for Autarchs and Farseers is nothing compared to the panoply of toys modern HQ's get, even if they do get nice things) and no rules with sharp edges newbies might hurt themselves with.
> 
> However, Eldar do have the advantage of still fielding a specialist army in many ways, which tends to reward good play more than the CSM book does. I'll go on record saying that Fire Dragons, a seer council (or jetseer council), jetguardians, banshees and Farseers make for more lethal synergy than the cream of CSM stuff played at a similar level of skill. (This is anecdote. Take it with as many grains of salt as needed).


From my experiance that's fairly true. It takes a VERY good Chaos player to consistently win with the book but Eldar (despite being overpriced) are still a viable force that can even do things to hurt Grey Knights (Runes of Warding for example). Chaos doesn't get any kind of psychic protection on the other hand.


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## SoulGazer

> -there was a little heated discussion weather alpha legion should be in this or the traitors dex... there in the legion dex


So from this I take it the Alpha Legion's fluff is going to remain tiny footnotes throughout the codex? I can see it now:

*837.M41* Alpha Legion operatives steal Macragge's entire supply of cookies; troop deployment delayed 4 days.

*942.M41* A small asteroid impacts on Hive World Agrakkus, killing millions. A signal was detected originating from the asteroid just before impact which read: Love, Alpharius. P.S. No tag-backs.

*999.M41* Cultist activity increases ten-fold around the Ultima Segmentum in the span of a solar week under the guise of "Girl Scout Cookies." Warp-tainted snacks are spread quickly through the populace and the Inquisition is forced to declare all cookies heretical to stem the flow. Riots have not stopped since. The tainted treats are most likely those stolen from Macragge over 200 years earlier.


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## slaaneshy

Drop pods. As long as this Chaos Codex allows the bad boys to remember how to use a drop pod, I will be happy!


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## black legionar

the problem with making a figure for horus is then you would have to make a figure for the emporer golden throne and all


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## Warsmith Drewgie

black legionar said:


> the problem with making a figure for horus is then you would have to make a figure for the emporer golden throne and all


No one ever mentioned making a figure of Horus The Warmaster. They were talking about a figure for Little Horus. He was a different character in the Horus Heresy series Horus Aximund (that might be spelled wrong). He was the spitting image of his primarch, only smaller.


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## Fallen

GreatUncleanOne said:


> I hope that ward doesn't write the fluff. In MY opinion he just sucks at it. Can't really complain about the rules he writes but I just think he should never be allowed near the keyboard when the fluff is getting written.
> 
> Sold. Call Phil for the fluff, and let him have "veto" power on Ward for the stupid rule or five he will have (like the "retarded grenades" for GKs)
> 
> I also hope that GW get over their nurgle hate. On the whole they don't seem to like him very much either rules wise or models. Forgeworld on the other hand love him to bits with all their cool models and rules (well I suppose they love khorne too). I just wish I could afford FW
> 
> What Nurgle Hate? at least a DG list is viable with this codex, ask any Tson or Noise Marine player if they would like to swap their gods "hate" with Nurgle's? 99% will say "yes".
> 
> And GW can we please be able to play a themed army without taking a bloody stupid named character?
> 
> Also sold, named characters should IMO just allow that units with "Mark of ____" count as troops (MoS termies yes please!):so_happy:
> 
> So to end my mild rant. I love Nurgle (as a friend)


i still fail to see any "nurgle hate" by GW, you are supported by FW and have adequate & appropriate rules & point costs. maybe not true T5 which i can agree with, but still, at least your not paying 25pts for a decent NM thats a generic CSM with a heavy 3 assault 2 bolter AND I5 + fearless only...not to mention our best unit (doomsiren champ) is at LEAST 60 points without a PW of some sort, or do you wish to bitch about how the Tsons have to pay upfront a ridiculous amount of points for a shitty sorcerer and the squad can only move 2d6 if he's alive? 

doesnt help that your named character is also decent with automatically passing his psychic powers and confers blight grenades to the squad he is in (thank you BRB faq:so_happy. and other than ~16.6% of a chance to roll a 1 you are a good CC threat too.

------------------

end rant on rant of the "less fortunate of the fortunate"



slaaneshy said:


> Drop pods. As long as this Chaos Codex allows the bad boys to remember how to use a drop pod, I will be happy!


also this...oh and no retarded dreads, possessed and cheaper raptors, bikes, defilers, and SLDs


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## Legiomortis

I find the news that Ward is writing it hard to believe, as ive posted in earlier threads there was a chat with the BL writers at games day where we sat in a room with Dan Abnett and Graham Mcneill and got to grill them about their upcoming books. After a great reading of an excerpt from Mr Mcneills new heresy book myself and a friend put forward a suggestion to Graham asking if he would ever like to see his Honsou character as an Iron Warriors HQ in the upcoming 'dex, he then went on to say and I quote - "I've been asking Phil (Kelly) to put him in the new codex but he keeps refusing" - To which we laughed and said "So Phil Kelly is writing the new 'dex" whereupon Graham replied rather sheepishly "I never said anything ...."

I doubt very much that was Graham putting off a big misdirection as it was too natural a slip up, plus it makes sense in the scheme of things. So for now i'll take the info I got from Mr McNeill rather than a random rumour from the web.


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## Warsmith Drewgie

This makes me really pleased. Not that I have any problem with Matt Ward. I just really like my Dark Eldar codex and find the army very fun to play. I look forward to that same enthusiasm pumped back into my first 40k army CSM.


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## GreatUncleanOne

WOOHOO!!! gotta love mr mcneil!! Why can't he write the fluff?


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## LukeValantine

On the down side: With all the built up anticipation from dedicated CSM players anything but a above average dex will probably end in a mass exudes of players from 40k, I know like 6 people that only play chaos, and if a nid stlye book was released I could really see them just cutting their loses and leaving the hobby rather then switching to a viable force.


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## TheSpore

LukeValantine said:


> On the down side: With all the built up anticipation from dedicated CSM players anything but a above average dex will probably end in a mass exudes of players from 40k, I know like 6 people that only play chaos, and if a nid stlye book was released I could really see them just cutting their loses and leaving the hobby rather then switching to a viable force.


Gotta agree buddy Ive almost left this hobby after the GK dex came and nearly turned my daemon army into nothing,This next CSM Dex has to be really good or GW is gonna trully understand the meaning of losing money the hard way.


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## stuff

I like the idea of playing an army that is competitive as well as being dedicated to only one god. Can make it a much more unified and more attractive army on the tabletop. I don't think I have played against a single csm army dedicated to a single god. I'm bad for it too, continually play with both a nurgle and tzeentch DP in my army.

Fingers crossed for enough variety to have more than one interesting build for each legion! I never played with the previous codex but I have a copy and it is so much more interesting with so much more variety. I want some of that back!!!


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## Lubacca

If they put out a 30k box set, I'd be in line to get it. I'd sell a bunch of games to get the scratch for it. The HH series has done alot to make that era seem to vivid and just straight bad ass that I wouldn't be able to contain my joy over it. As much hate as Ward gets, I think he's gotten alot of his footing under him with the whole Codex thing. Plus with HH basically fleshing out the majority of the events that are considered vastly important in this era, well then I don't see an issue. 

I wonder if they'll make a Loken figure... I know this is choas legions but still, it would be bad ass. Maybe build a box out of "Let the Galaxy Burn" and the fight that really set things into orbit with the Loyalists and Traitors in one box.


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## Warsmith Drewgie

LukeValantine said:


> On the down side: With all the built up anticipation from dedicated CSM players anything but a above average dex will probably end in a mass exudes of players from 40k, I know like 6 people that only play chaos, and if a nid stlye book was released I could really see them just cutting their loses and leaving the hobby rather then switching to a viable force.


I don't know about that a lot of us stuck around after the last craptastic codex rendered half of our legion specific units and models useless. We have just had to make due with what we had left. Unfortunately it just meant that you ended up seeing the same lash prince lists over and over again. I think this new book is to try to appease all the Legion players who put up a big fuss when the last book was released. Granted people who started CSM during the current codex might not understand but I am hoping it will be done in a manner similar to the 3rd edition book that will keep everyone happy. 

To put it in a way for non Chaos players to understand, it would be equivalent loyalist marines not getting any chapter specific codecies for a whole edition and being stuck using vanilla marine rules only for their armies. Of course I'm sure Eldar can relate since they lost their various craftworld rules as well.


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## Fallen

Warsmith Drewgie said:


> Granted people who started CSM during the current codex might not understand but I am hoping it will be done in a manner similar to the 3rd edition book that will keep everyone happy.


totally agree with you on this Warsmith Drewgie, although i am a little late to the CSM player base, i really wish that i could take my Noise Marine army and not get falcon-punched in the taint before playing.


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## jselvy

Lubacca said:


> If they put out a 30k box set, I'd be in line to get it. I


That'll make two of us. I hope for an imperial army prior to girlyman's goatshagging of the armoury.

A (hopefully) not stupid question: Would it not satify the gamers and benefit GW's bottom line to produce a two tier codex system?
For example; A standard CSM codex and optional legion-specific codexlettes.
The would be Khornate player could purchase the CSM codex and then purchase the smaller Khorne book (costing significantly less) to gain accss to the god specific rules and data. Vanille CSM would not require the extra book, so it would only be an additional cost to the dedicated player. This could also be done with Eldar and standard SM.


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## Fallen

jselvy said:


> A (hopefully) not stupid question: Would it not satify the gamers and benefit GW's bottom line to produce a two tier codex system?
> For example; A standard CSM codex and optional legion-specific codexlettes.
> The would be Khornate player could purchase the CSM codex and then purchase the smaller Khorne book (costing significantly less) to gain accss to the god specific rules and data. Vanille CSM would not require the extra book, so it would only be an additional cost to the dedicated player. This could also be done with Eldar and standard SM.


so...your saying that theres C:SMs + minidexs of the following; SW, DA, BA, GK, MoK, MoS, MoN, MoT, BT, IFs, + Legions, + other cool chapters.

isnt that what they have done already?...


-------

dont worry about asking a stupid question. it just means that it has the easiest answer.k:


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## Insane Psychopath

Legiomortis said:


> I find the news that Ward is writing it hard to believe, as ive posted in earlier threads there was a chat with the BL writers at games day where we sat in a room with Dan Abnett and Graham Mcneill and got to grill them about their upcoming books. After a great reading of an excerpt from Mr Mcneills new heresy book myself and a friend put forward a suggestion to Graham asking if he would ever like to see his Honsou character as an Iron Warriors HQ in the upcoming 'dex, he then went on to say and I quote - "I've been asking Phil (Kelly) to put him in the new codex but he keeps refusing" - To which we laughed and said "So Phil Kelly is writing the new 'dex" whereupon Graham replied rather sheepishly "I never said anything ...."
> 
> I doubt very much that was Graham putting off a big misdirection as it was too natural a slip up, plus it makes sense in the scheme of things. So for now i'll take the info I got from Mr McNeill rather than a random rumour from the web.


There also this post from Bolter & Chainswords, when a memeber had spoken to Matt Ward during Games Day as well as Jervies

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=239188



> [quote name='firestorm40k' date='Sep 26 2011, 03:07 PM' post='2885532']
> Hello all, I just thought I’d share my sort-of discussions regarding a future Chaos Codex with two members of the development team at yesterday’s Games Day ‘event’.
> 
> Basically, I spoke to Jervis Johnson (head designer, apparently) and Matt Ward (yeah, I know, I know…). Now, I could have ranted at them with four years of hatred towards our lack-lustre Codex, but I thought it would be more productive (and less antagonistic) if I approached them with a friendly smile (well, what pass as one from me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and my own personal thoughts/desires on our next Codex.
> 
> In a nutshell, more options regarding things like vehicles, specifically variants of Rhinos and Land Raiders – I said that the reasons for restricting the loyalist Marines with what they can do to theirs don’t apply to Chaos (we don’t have angry Tech Priests after us), so if we want to, say, put Assault Ramps on our Rhinos, there’s no one to stop us!
> 
> I also tried to get across that Chaos Marine armies (whether you go for Renegades or Legions) can broadly fit in to two approaches which could shape the development of this Codex – firstly the ‘Black Crusade’, which is about throwing the full force of what your army/legion does best till you opponent has nothing standing (I guess this could include your World Eaters Berzerker assault force, or an Iron Warriors siege force, or the relentless march of the Death Guard). The second approach is the Cultist/Ambush/Terror approach – the one where you don’t have the resources for a full scale invasion, but you’ve already sent your agents (be they infiltrating Marines or Cultists) to defeat your enemy before they’ve even realised they’re at war – assassinating commanders, sabotaging and destroying tanks, that sort of thing (obviously, this is your Night Lords, Alpha Legion, perhaps Word Bearers army). Either way, whichever approach should still allow themed, or Legion based lists, if that’s what Chaos players wanted
> 
> In my conversations with both Jervis and Matt, I started off saying that I’d like to see Special Characters that add army wide abilities, which got very strong nods of understanding from both of them. The problem I immediately hit was that they both pretty much said that they’re not going to be involved with the development of Chaos Marines; Jervis said that he would pass on my comments thought (whether he does is another thing!).
> 
> You may find Matt Ward’s response more interesting: he basically said blatantly that he was not going to be working on Chaos. Yes, that’s right, you can all breathe a sigh of relief!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then, more interestingly, he looked around for the other member of the team at Games Day, who was absent every time I went to the developers’ area, but would have liked to speak to – a certain Mr Phil Kelly. Now, (cue wild speculation) judging by this, I got the strong impression that Phil Kelly is likely to be involved in the development – perhaps even writing it?
> 
> That was the only serious nugget that I found of comfort from Jervis or Matt Ward to be honest. They both talked about there being a lot of potential with Chaos Marines that a future codex could build upon. Matt Ward went further, basically saying in so many words that he realised the Chaos codex is disliked and that it didn’t really achieve what the later, more recent Codices have. He also said that the Codices from Space Wolves onwards should give more of the shape of a Chaos Marine Codex, in terms of increased amount of options. Hopefully, like some Codices, that means under-priced/over powered (delete as appropriate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) units like these other ones, too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He also said about the current Chaos Codex that it offers a good basis from which to start developing a new one. Not sure I agree with him, but I’m hoping he means that it is something that can be expanded and improved upon, rather than just recycling it…
> 
> So, I had gone to Games Day with the intention of getting in to a really intense discussion about giving Chaos a codex of which it is worthy. I think I didn’t really speak to the right people for that (if only I’d have been able to find Phil Kelly!), so I think ultimately I got some insubstantial platitudes. I was heartened that a) Matt Ward *won’t* be writing the next Chaos Codex, and b ) there was the suggestion that Phil Kelly is at the very least going to be involved in the development of our next codex.
> 
> So, that’s all I have to offer I’m afraid, but I hope it provides some fuel for discussion and/or speculation.
> 
> Thanks for reading, now fire away!


Just from my guess, I though Matt would be really busy working on the Hobbit game for next year, with the movie being release. As to my knolwege Matt is one of the few who work for GW studio that has the experince of the Lord of the Ring game. While Jeremy did work on War of the Rings as well with him.

But end of the day rumour are rumours, nothing offical until near the release. People should not get upset over rumours as it may or may not happen.


----------



## Eleven

I'm seriously hoping for some bad ass psychic defense. I think that chaos should have the best psychic defense. After all who (except grey knights) want to use their psychic powers while the physical presence of the warp is manifesting right in front of you. It's not really a good idea.

Also, anything with the tag daemon on it shouldn't have to take a god damn perils test.


----------



## Weapon

Daemons have to take a perils of the warp when going up against the Grey Knights?

duuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...


----------



## Vaz

> -i really really shouldnt but, ive only seen a dreadnaught of the two mentioned (regarding a previous report of new plastic Chaos Dread and Raptors)


The style of the Chaos Dread with the Power Scourge is good - it just needs updating to the level of the current MkIV/V. I just hope to god that it doesn't get all Blood Angel'd.



> -To quickly add. will lesser chaos gods feture. yes n all of the fallen legions will be there


Daemons and Chaos Space Marines working together? And a Chaos Space Marine Legions book detailing the Chaos Space Marine Legions? Who'da thunk.



> -saw preliminary types for khonate chrono gladiators... and a really bizarre night lord assassin type thing...


Some we get Angry Doctor Who Terminators and a generic "ooh I'm dark and scary assassin". Why the hell could we not get Voldorius?



> -oh im sure if people want a new abaddon.. i saw one but really it isnt much...


Not really. Fuck paying £20 for a monopose terminator.



> -little horus on the other hand... now there's a wow figure


Oooh the Black Legion Sanguinor. Hooah. Don't forget liberal use of Sarcasm tags.



> -there was a little heated discussion weather alpha legion should be in this or the traitors dex... there in the legion dex


Why should their be a heated discussion? Are they a Legion? Yes. Then include them in the fucking Legion book if you're doing one. I'm not going to find them in Codex: Craftworld Eldar, am I?

Am I? Wouldn't surprise me.



> -the new abaddon as really it just seems bigger n bulkier, like somebody 3d scanned it n made him larger


Ooh, I take what I said earlier back again. Who'd want to pay £25 for a monopose terminator showing in higher detail just how good a 15-20 year old model actually is.



> -the minor chaos gods are already named, its like marks though, no daemons


Aaah, perfect.

Crock of shite.



> -i did see a dark mechanicus guy... not sure if he will make it though, a very creepy sculpt based on a john Blanche piece


Yay, Blanche. >.<



> -this is really something to be taken with a grain of salt there may may be a 30k boxed set at some point, containing one of each of the legions


Snoreee
characters



> -oh one last thing its ward


Fuck yes.


In short - Codex: Legions - ANDANANADNANADNADN he did really cool stuff and his friends did cool stuff liek giy i just made up did really cool stuff and they all worked togehter and did really cool stuff and then john he like this really artist and his stuff and stuff is all like really cool and he made this really cool drawing and stuff that looked like a vomitt soaked shit stain and it WAS REALLY COOL LOL.


----------



## Ledo Movuct

Sorry for the awful question, but what is the difference between legions and traitors? Anything to do with a chaotic 'imperial' guard?Thanks!


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Before the Horus Heresy the Astartes were divided into Legions numbering tens to hundreds of thousands. After the heresy the loyalists were divided up into Chapters each numbering roughly a thousand while the traitors remained Legions.


----------



## Zion

I know this is likely to come up before but Ward specifically mentioned he was *not* going to be involved in the Legions book (there is some rumors about him being involved in the Hobbit game instead since he has experiance with LotR).

Either way it's good to hear that there is attention being spent on Chaos (be it Kelly or Ward, it'll be interesting for sure). I look forward to seeing what changes this will bring and how this refines/reimagines the fluff and universe and affects it.


----------



## Warsmith Drewgie

I don't really care who does it so long as rules wise it is more akin to the 3rd edition codex than the 4the edition one. That is the difference between traitors and legions. The 3rd edition book was focused around the legions that had turned traitor during the heresy where as the 4th edition book was just based around any marines that turned to Chaos and formed their own "chapter" so to speak. My only hope is that the undivided legions aren't over looked in favor of the ones that serve a specific Chaos god. I suppose that is kind of an obvious statement though coming from a guy who has Warsmith in his name.


----------



## Moonschwine

Most things seem quite good. Though like all rumours its taken with great heaps of salt to temper the taste. 

I do feel that the Tau are slightly more deserving of an an update than chaos as they have the most defunct rules at the moment, I'd much prefer to be the first 6th Ed Codex rather than the last of 5th Edition and "play tested for 6th". 

Anyway my views;



> -i really really shouldnt but, ive only seen a dreadnaught of the two mentioned (regarding a previous report of new plastic Chaos Dread and Raptors)
> 
> Great, happy to see everything made into plastic for the army. Fine cast Raptors and Plagues were a great Idea, but we do want more options so no complaints here.
> 
> -To quickly add. will lesser chaos gods feture. yes n all of the fallen legions will be there
> 
> Expanding the fluff and options of the army, another thumbs up.
> 
> -saw preliminary types for khonate chrono gladiators... and a really bizarre night lord assassin type thing...
> 
> Sort of where I begin to go...errr okay. Sounds as though they want to sculpt everything for everyone. I'd much prefer to have "World Eaters Upgrade Kit" "Word Bearers Upgrade Kit" but it's all speculation so I can't really moan to loudly.
> 
> 
> -the new abaddon as really it just seems bigger n bulkier, like somebody 3d scanned it n made him larger /
> -oh im sure if people want a new abaddon.. i saw one but really it isnt much...
> 
> Fourth time I've heard about a New Abaddon, but largely it was expected since IIRC his scaling is different to other terminators and hence looks out of place anyway so I'd almost "expect" this to happen with the new dex.
> 
> -little horus on the other hand... now there's a wow figure
> 
> Another. Huh moment. I can see the appeal since the HH has introduced loads of character options. If anything, Its good to see the idea of new characters thrown around.
> 
> 
> -there was a little heated discussion weather alpha legion should be in this or the traitors dex... there in the legion dex
> 
> Good job, since they were a legion...in fact it's heavily implied in their name... .
> 
> -the minor chaos gods are already named, its like marks though, no daemons
> 
> Very cool sounding concept. Yes yes the whole "individual snowflake" argument. But choice and customizability have never been a problem for me.
> 
> -i did see a dark mechanicus guy... not sure if he will make it though, a very creepy sculpt based on a john Blanche piece
> 
> Sounds like concept sculpting pieces to be honest. Worth following up on for possible info leaks, but can't seeing it having a major effect
> 
> 
> -this is really something to be taken with a grain of salt there may may be a 30k boxed set at some point, containing one of each of the legions characters.
> 
> Possible unsupported game akin to Space Hulk. Can see the appeal and would buy 3 copied of it purely for the resale profit. As I understood it there was meant to be two "starter" boxes. One Marine one Chaos.
> 
> 
> -oh one last thing its ward
> 
> No problems here officer. Just let him write the rules and statlines, not the fluff.


Anyway just chipping in, quite excited to see, looks like I chose my new army at a good time.


----------



## MaidenManiac

If there is 1 MEQ codex where it would be ok with Wards totally out of bounce fluff it would be in a CSM codex. Eternal Warriors reborn at the whim of their patron God, gifted with the most ingenious gifts, whatnot. Ward could defo go to town there:laugh:


Seems like thats a no go though, since he denied it himself.
Im sure he is pestering the BTs now instead. Hellbrecht seems to have a score to settle with a certain Necron....


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## whiplash308

Uber Ork said:


> I guess I'm unclear on what "scrapping" means? It seems highly unlikely to me that one guy could handle writing all the codices in a timely manner and maintain a high level of quality. But then again, he did just write two back to back so... :dunno:
> 
> Where did you get this information? .


I can't remember exactly, but I heard it in my local game store that the owner read something about Matt Ward taking over the codex writing area on a forum somewhere. I know that I'm not really showing any proof of this Matt Ward overtake, but I'm just stating what I heard. As you said with your chart of Ward - Cruddace - Kelly codex writing, Matt Ward has been producing codexes at a decent rate, which in turn, as you said, wrote and released two codexes back to back. He's also written a multitude of SM codexes, those being Space Marines, Blood Angels and Grey Knights, along with Necrons. Even though it's been said at a Games Day interview that he won't be writing Chaos, nor will he be involved in Chaos, I still somehow think that Matt Ward will write Chaos. 

Oh and by scrapping I mean "getting rid of", in this case.


----------



## slaaneshy

No doubt master ward will rewrite the chaos fluff to state the whole heresy thing was just a misunderstanding and the bad guys are now all ultramarines and best pals with necrons, blah blah...


----------



## hungryugolino

No, Matt Ward treats them all as inferior to Codex Marines, retcons the Iron Warriors stomping the Ultramarines in M991 out of existence, then proceeds to shove M'kar the Reborn in there and still alive for no apparent reason.

This is simply a statement of fact based on his previous codices.


----------



## Khargoth

Oh yeah, I can totally see him turning the Iron Cage incident into how the IW are cowards and the Fists are dumbasses for falling for the trap, and the Ultras saw the trap a mile off and are heroes for rescuing them. At least in the original Rowboat Girlyman was more level-headed; “This is going to get you all killed and the Imperium needs you.“

My predictions:
-God-specific armies will get a host of rules and wargear to set them apart from undivided forces.
-Legions will get characters and maybe something unique for them like traitor guard or some 30k tech (the 30k rumour may have mutated from a kit to a box set) but very little to differentiate one Legion from another.
-Fluff will be derp-tastic. Expect the gods to make personal appearances in the material realm and other shenanigans pulled straight from Greek mythology.
-Legions will be an inferior shooty force compared to Marines with some token CC nasties. Likely similar situation to current CSM, versatility at the cost of power.
-Conversely, marked armies are likely to be CC monsters.
-They will be spoilt for options and be fun to play, but people will still bitch.


----------



## Legiomortis

So even with the evidence to the contrary folks are still believing Ward is writing the next CSM dex? The mind truly boggles.


----------



## Dave T Hobbit

Khargoth said:


> -They will be spoilt for options and be fun to play, but people will still bitch.


With sadness I think that one is certainly correct. There will be both "OMG Teh Caoz is unplayable Ragequit" and an "WTF Chaos Marinez have an option that beats my netlist" threads all over the place within seconds of the book being sent to GW stores.


----------



## TheSpore

Im hoping they do more on the god specifics side of things, in reality each of these legions would kill each other and well it takes the efforts of Failbadon or all the gods to unite them together, I just wanna see Chaos get some stuff that makes them powerful or more powerful than your standard codex marine armies. We are talking about a force of SM that lives day in and day out surrounded by unmentionable hordes of horrors, they are all recruited from insane pshycotic bastards most the time, follow there own rules, and should be a lil less apt to break and run since IDK they kinda deal with crazy scary shit all the time in daily life. Also I would hope they would finally at least give them the Shall Know No Fear rule considering they are freaking SM, Just because you turn traitor doesn't mean you become a whiney lil coward.


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## whiplash308

Well we lost "And They Shall Know No Fear" for a higher base leadership, and almost every model in the army list having LD10, plus IoCG re-rolling those failed morale tests. 

But yes, in reality all of the Legions would be beating the shit out of each other. A Legion Codex would be absolutely amazing. How good would 5th/6th edition Iron Warriors play out? Vindicator/Predator squadrons? Epic.

Of course people would still bitch. Both Chaos players and other players would bitch saying that "O foar teh noez dey schrewd Ka0z agen!11!!!one! /cry /quit" and "Ka0z iz OP hax0rz". That's just what people do. There are aspects in the current codex that shit the bed *AHEMPOSSESSEDDREADNOUGHTSBIKERS*, but when players can figure out how to actually use Chaos right now to their advantage, we can be a really good army. 

I bought the previous codex recently just to see what I missed out on, and sweet Raptor Jesus it was great. You can actually play pretty much any of the Legions and it worked very effectively! I'm sure if we played old Chaos right now, we would be defeated (right?) every so often, but if we had a legit Legion codex like last edition's codex, I'm sure Chaos would be a respected army again. 

....and Daemonic Gifts. Need Daemonic Gifts.


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## mcmuffin

whiplash308 said:


> I bought the previous codex recently just to see what I missed out on, and sweet Raptor Jesus it was great. You can actually play pretty much any of the Legions and it worked very effectively! I'm sure if we played old Chaos right now, we would be defeated (right?) every so often, but if we had a legit Legion codex like last edition's codex, I'm sure Chaos would be a respected army again.
> 
> ....and Daemonic Gifts. Need Daemonic Gifts.



Doubt that we would be beaten easily, IW would still rape face.


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## Dave T Hobbit

mcmuffin said:


> Doubt that we would be beaten easily, IW would still rape face.


Going back to the way IW were would cause ructions on both sides: leaving aside CSM with proper artillery, I still remember the angst about IW being the only CSM with Vindicators.

I am just hoping for a Codex that lets me choose between competitive and fluffy instead of between competitive and not totally unfluffy.


----------



## TheSpore

They need to bring back the god specific daemons though, I know they are an army of their own now, but thats fine Im only saying they bring back the daemon troops those aren't that over the top and the genaric GD needs to be god specific as well.


----------



## SoulGazer

I do wonder how many people will play CSM this time around. How popular where they in previous releases? Did more or less people play them when they divided up CSM and Daemons into separate armies and dropped the Legion-specific rules?


----------



## TheSpore

SoulGazer said:


> I do wonder how many people will play CSM this time around. How popular where they in previous releases? Did more or less people play them when they divided up CSM and Daemons into separate armies and dropped the Legion-specific rules?


lets put it this way when evereyone starts their first army they either wind up with SM or CSM, the daemon army became a bit popular for a time but the nostalgia wore off because many just couldn't hang with the army...


----------



## LukeValantine

Because it sucked. Sorry, but someone had to make sure no one misinterpreted your unfinished sentence.


----------



## slaaneshy

A limited demon choice option in chaos armies makes fluffy and business sense, so it won't happen for both those reasons!


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

It will definitely be interesting to see how all this pans out. More depth for the legions can only be a good thing (if done right of course...)


----------



## MaidenManiac

Various CSM info:
Cred to Natfka for gathering stuff up and others where its due.



> Going to a hardback codex something like what Fantasy did is highly expected in my book. I think the fantasy army books are extremly nice looking and a step or two above in quality what we currently have for 40k. My 40k codexes get pretty beat up fast, and the ink inside each ones tends to smear as it fades to darken each page. (perhaps too much re-reading of the pages).
> 
> 
> Directly to the rumors, please take with salt.
> 
> 
> via Ghost21
> 6th ed codex will be hardback
> 
> and i didnt see a named warsmith, only the dark mechanicus guy
> ill say this there are havoc's for marked legions
> 
> though each legion will get something unique to them, from force organization to individual units to hqs, for example night lords n world eaters can only have 1 heavy support but get other boni
> 
> remember huron has quite decent kit, so expect something like a 2nd ed list for him. also, in some ways picking a legion will restrict you, there are allot of chaos characters already in fluff so expect most to return, plus a few new faces





> Rumors about the three Chaos Codexes coming soon. The first of which we should see next year, Chaos Legions. I for one am frothing at the mouth for Chaos Renegades which I will buy. I also will start a new army when Chaos Legions comes out, so yes figure another 6-8k pt army for me.
> 
> What is this big guy in the picture? Well he is in the rumors below, so check it out.
> 
> 
> Please remember that rumors are rumors, please take with salt.
> 
> via Ghost21
> okay time to end the what ifs....
> there will be 3 chaos dexes as far as im aware, legions, renegades n daemons
> 
> now daemons will appear in the legion dex but not those awful lesser things they are now... im not sure about greater daemons... however if you are doing a legion list its based on "black legion(or the generic list)" or one of the others
> 
> legions
> 
> whats there ?, lots
> 
> world eaters with bolt guns you say... yeah there there
> 
> expect very powerful characters here (they are 10 Milena old)... my favorite is the overpowered red angel... now he IS angry
> 
> would I be correct to assume the renegades book will include some "lost and the damned" style units? traitor guard, mutants etc
> 
> thats the plan, but also rules for , chapters that have gone bad
> 
> 
> I assume the Red Corsairs will figure prominently in the Renegade book? Will they try and give Renegade chapters more "codex/loyalist" gear?
> 
> not exactly as i understand its a latd list first n foremost
> 
> traitor generals, guard, SOME marines, mutants, cults etc
> 
> 
> The Red Guy via VERITAS/AEQUITAS
> checking my Horus Heresy Artbooks again after some years I ended up looking at a picture that before I never really paid much attention to:
> 
> Horus' allies shown on page 40/41 of HH3: Visions of Treachery. There is also a picture on page 45 that shows what I am asking about in detail.
> 
> The picture shows a Marine in Power Armour, engulfed in flames, tied with chains, with Blood Angel iconography that hovers over the ground next to Ahriman of the Thousand Sons.
> 
> Who or what is that?? Is he a poor survivor of the slaughter on Signus Prime? A victim of the demon(s) that also wounded Sanguinius?
> 
> I never ever came across an explaination for this "demon" Blood Angel.
> 
> It actually took a while until I realized that guy has BA icons on his armour. And how's Ahriman involved in this or is it coincidence he is next to him in that artwork?
> 
> 
> 
> Here Ghost21 talks about people that like to dis rumor sources. Personally I think he just ignore them and continue what he does, but its often so hard to not respond to stupid posts in forums.
> 
> 1. There is a post on dakka if i remember correctly, about Ghost informations. 50% of them are right but 50% are misses.
> 
> 2. its still hard to belive you have good info on a dex (and specially its rules and stats) that will hit stores next year.
> Dont get me wrong, you may have the best intentions, but still many things may change. I work in a bank (big company) and I have no idea what will be our strategy for next year.
> 
> urm yes everything to be taken with salt
> 
> but its been said for a while there would be 3 dexes, even if they decided to split the legions, well id be told... for a while i heard there would be cult, and non cult dexes however i was told that IF this happens the chaos dex would be delayed another 6 months at least
> 
> my position within the company really? do people want me to loose that, honestly, i think theres 2 people who know who i am n where i work on this board
> 
> and if you search my posts i do explain my hit n misses
> 
> lastly I try not to post stats, some hints of rules certainly, but not everything... i do get into some hot water occasionally,
> 
> however there are some people who object to the tight lipness of gw... and as long as they stay this way ill continue to post what i have, even if i get a bent ear
> 
> ghost out


Rock outopcorn:


----------



## Vaz

1 - Hardback Cover - unless in 6th Edition, no. 8th Edition is hardback cover - they could have done hardback for 7th any time, but no, they kept the design the same the way through.

2 - Hope Huron has a decent model. One of the best pre-chaos fluff, then over the last century becomes the Lord Meh of MehMeh-dom.

3 - 3 Chaos Codices? So Legions, Warbands, and Daemons? Or SM Focused, Daemons, and Cultist/Lost and the Damned/Beastmen (for the Renegades). I suppose that Chaos Guard is also a possibility. After all, renegade CSM is little more than SM with Spikes, yet Guard have to cope with sticking with Imperialist rules.

4 - Berserkers with Boltguns - happy with that. Because I guess that 2-3 foot of solid metal with spikes powered by enhanced muscles of a sub-human genetically designed bio-weapon and its artificial muscle-fibres in its armour and potentially daemon strength is no longer a decent weapon? Happy with that - gives them something to do when the jump out of a Rhino. "So I fire 20 Shots at you, and you can either assault me to stop charging you the next turn, but you're then attacking WS5 S4 2 Attack models in CC? Right".

5 - Red Angel? Fuck sake, demick. Come up with a more unique idea than "Oh look fallen angel".

6 - And Ghost21 doesn't really make sense that he has such sources of information, yet works in a bank. If he works in a bank where he would be in such a position to potentially know or hint at what the strategy would be, then surely he wouldn't have the time to fish for rumours. And if he was some front-end monkey, then his comment doesn't make sense. That would be like asking a Marine green from the CTC what the thoughts of the Brigadier are.


----------



## TheSpore

If im npot mistaken doesn't this ghost guy have a pretty good track record for being very accurate


----------



## Zion

TheSpore said:


> If im npot mistaken doesn't this ghost guy have a pretty good track record for being very accurate


He's pretty on the ball most of the time. I'd say about 70% accuracy rate at least with insight on why he's wrong when he is.


----------



## whiplash308

70% accuracy is pretty good when it comes to the rumor field. I've seen a lot of messed up rumors, like an Eldar Drop Pod thing. -throws crate of salt at it-

70% accuracy is also pretty good in an army like Chaos. A lot of shenanigans can happen with Chaos since they're naturally all over the place. I certainly don't doubt a return of a Legion codex, along with a natural CSM codex and a daemon codex.


----------



## Usaal

Count_the_Seven said:


> Only two CSM forces out of 32 that weekend. One finished 7th, mine 32nd. Some bad rolls and bad decisions, but playing a themed CSM force is IMO not viable with that codex.
> 
> I can evolve my force but it won't be DG. The other player was experienced and that showed. Both forces were beautifully painted though!
> 
> :biggrin:


In last years local Throne of Skulls qualifier tournament we had a Nurgle CSM player win it all. By a fair margin at that.
Granted he is one of those players that can take just about any army and tweak it out for a tournament, but it does show that the armies can win.


----------



## Ravner298

Legions, Renegades, and Daemons?

I'd love to see them flavorful and playable again. I refuse to run lash, and daemons were bottom tier 4 months after they were released.


----------



## TheSpore

If anyone look at the track record of chaos dexes out there 2nd was broken 3rd was crap then 3.5 was broken as all hell and then 4th was garbage and well now they are due to be broken(or fixed) again.


----------



## Ravner298

TheSpore said:


> If anyone look at the track record of chaos dexes out there 2nd was broken 3rd was crap then 3.5 was broken as all hell and then 4th was garbage and well now they are due to be broken(or fixed) again.


 
This is very true. I miss the days when people did nothing but complain about how OP chaos was.


----------



## TheSpore

Back in 2nd a Chaos lord was well pretty much a freakin Chaos God in themself...


----------



## MaidenManiac

TheSpore said:


> Back in 2nd a Chaos lord was well pretty much a freakin Chaos God in themself...


I fondly remember one local player that ALWAYS used a disc mounted Tzeentch Sorcerer Lord (there was some sneaky hopeless to charge rule that made him the perfect combo with the powerfield) with a power field to great success until another loyalist player had enough, deployed a Vindicare which promptly killed him stone dead with a double tap, consisting of Shieldbreaker and then Turbopen shot, turn 1.

That dude got other duties from Tzeentch after being victim a second game in a row:laugh:


Regarding the CSM codex mantra and quality its both laughable and sad. But by all right of said mantra the upcoming one should yet again be epic fun.
Cant wait:biggrin:


----------



## Zion

More rumors (source):



> theDarkGeneral
> I'm glad ghost21 was able to confirm my early reply about Warsmiths and Dark Apostles, and World Eaters w/Bolters...
> 
> Here's more tidbits over a few shots of bourbon and some cigars...
> *Chaos Dreads: No longer crazed or deranged, and new plastic (FINALLY) sprue to incorporate some new/old dreadnought close combat weapons types (chainfist, thunderhammer, power scourge, etc.)...but i'm more excited about being able to have Marked Dreads!!!
> 
> *Assault Berzerkers! Finally, Berzerkers with jump packs counting as Fast Attack!
> 
> *Slaughterfiends from Apoc will make their way into the Codex, along with versions for "Marked" type ones for other Legions.
> 
> *HQs making a return (lil' salt): Droomrider, Doombreed, Cypher , along with 5 newish guys.
> 
> *Unit size changes: Oblitz can come in up to 4, while most Daemon Engines can be 3 for 1...
> 
> *New Landraider: So we no longer have to suffer with just the old crumby one, has a higher capacity (15?) but is more of "warped" version of one of the Imperial versions.
> 
> *Force Org Chart: As ghost21 has alluded to, it won't change according to your Legion (HQs) as in swapping more Heavies for less Fast, but your access to units in those categories opens up, becomes limited, or closes off accordingly. Easy example I was given, is taking Khorne Daemon Prince means no Scouts...
> 
> I mean there is to be a "scout unit", but no associated with the World Eaters.
> 
> And as Brother Dimetrius has already mentioned, Cypher indeed was a Chaos model, and appeared in at least one of our previous Codexes. Could that mean a hint at Dark Angels around the bend? I think that'd be very cool, especially considering they are the FIRST Legion...
> 
> *Nightlords: I don't ask much about them, though a lil' i have for my buddy Paul has around 25,000+ points of them...Hit & Run and Stealth for universal special rules, but possible counter attack (for elite unit) as well as jump pack troops.
> 
> *Possessed: FINALLY getting some love, and according to Legion, they will have upgrades either already included or that you can pay for.
> 
> *Word Bearers: Apparently getting a lil' extra attention, and besides Dark Apostles, new models for "daemonancers", which just might be unit champs/sgt upgrades. I'm not sure. BUT, their summoning of Daemons from the Warp apparently allows re-rolls on the scatter dice, as well as new mishap chart!
> 
> *Deathguard: Feel no pain and blight grenades for their Cult Terminators, new nasty flamers upgrades.
> 
> *Thousand Sons: AP3 bolters will be MUCH more useful under 6th Edition, and a couple new Psychic abilities, one of which (supposedly) can remove an entire enemy squad from the table on a failed stat test!
> 
> *Iron Warriors: Access to Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield termies, thunderfire cannon off-shoot, Havocs w/Tank Hunters and relentless for some squad...
> 
> *Emperor's Children: Lash is finally changed to be more in line with Daemon version. More heavy weapons upgrade count for larger units. Better Bikes? Not sure what that means...
> 
> *Alpha Legion: Lots of infiltrating abilities, outflanking, and even temporary control of enemy squads/vehicles...basically sneaky bastards!
> 
> *Black Legion: HQs allow broader access to all unit types, but lack of better universal special rules.
> 
> 
> via Ghost21
> there are downsides to chaos units, nurgle cant do sweeping advances(i think thats what there called, n are stoic ), khorne has to engage in some kind of combat every turn or suffer a d6 result, tzzench (sp, ooooh i hate that word)are mindless automatons, who need a command figure or suffer a d6 result to guide there actions, and slaanesh well lets say they have very harsh results
> 
> as ive said, it will probably be the first or second 6th ed book, 6th ed is slated for jully i think (but also i have bb then... so i dunno), so anything upto 4 months after that (n this is the Legions book, not the renegades)


----------



## yanlou

Well its sounds really good for rumors, i hope most is true, Word Bearers sound even more exciting, same to Death Guard and finally marked dreads yay, hopefully they'll be first codex done for 6th.


----------



## LukeValantine

Looks like we will be going back to the flow chart style of codex, which is good for seasoned player but will reduce its appeal to newer gamers. However as I have been playing them for 6+ years I really don't care about that fact.


----------



## Fallen DA

I'm personally glad Cypher might/will be making a come back. I always thought he added some Character to an Army, and liked that you could field him in an IG Army along with a Squad of Fallen.


----------



## mcmuffin

edit*I am retarded


----------



## Stephen_Newman

DOOMRIDER!!!!! to return?

EPIC WIN!!!!!!!!


----------



## Khargoth

Oh shit son, I am very excited if those IW rumors are true, that is just the right amount of flavor, although I'm predicting people will bitch to no end about the TH/SS termies...


----------



## World Eater XII

"there are downsides to chaos units, nurgle cant do sweeping advances(i think thats what there called, n are stoic ), khorne has to engage in some kind of combat every turn or suffer a d6 result, tzzench (sp, ooooh i hate that word)are mindless automatons, who need a command figure or suffer a d6 result to guide there actions, and slaanesh well lets say they have very harsh results"

why oh why oh why.

Of all rumors i hope to god this is wrong...chaos dont need more random roll tables....


----------



## mcmuffin

I imagine they will be more like downsides to otherwise very powerful units, maybe subject to rage for berzerkers or slow and purposeful for thousand sons. After all, they are marines, so gw will give them some love.


----------



## MaidenManiac

mcmuffin said:


> I imagine they will be more like downsides to otherwise very powerful units, maybe subject to rage for berzerkers or slow and purposeful for thousand sons. After all, they are marines, so gw will give them some love.


Following the CSM codex mantra of 1 good 1 horrible this one should see lots of Slaaneshy inspired love and thus be awesome


----------



## mcmuffin

Well, after the insane disappointment with the pile of wank that is the necron codex, I sure hope chaos legions is amazing. My world eaters and iron warriors can come out of retirement.


----------



## Warsmith Drewgie

So I wonder if my Iron Warriors will get the basilisk and 4 HS slots back. I can hear people bitching about that already. Of course I don't see the big deal in us getting 4 HS tanks when IG can take 3 squadrons of 3, but that is just my opinion.


----------



## mcmuffin

Warsmith Drewgie said:


> So I wonder if my Iron Warriors will get the basilisk and 4 HS slots back. I can hear people bitching about that already. Of course I don't see the big deal in us getting 4 HS tanks when IG can take 3 squadrons of 3, but that is just my opinion.


i would love a vindicator squadron, it would make them useful.


----------



## GreatUncleanOne

I soooooo want this to be true. I can dig out my deathguard and actually have some choice in my army. I would even have just settled for a legion HQ (not a named idiot) and legion termies! not asking alot GW so do it please!!


----------



## slaaneshy

These rumours a kind of making sense and I can see this being the direction. The HQ choices influencing the army make up seems to be consistant with recent trends, as well as a tried and tested method from the playbook of the increasingly sucessful warmahordes competition.


----------



## MaidenManiac

mcmuffin said:


> Well, after the insane disappointment with the pile of wank that is the necron codex, I sure hope chaos legions is amazing. My world eaters and iron warriors can come out of retirement.


Well lets put it like this, they need to push themselves to their limits to make it even more dull then it already is...


----------



## mcmuffin

MaidenManiac said:


> Well lets put it like this, they need to push themselves to their limits to make it even more dull then it already is...


Well, if there was anyone for that job, its GW.


----------



## Eleven

World Eater XII said:


> "there are downsides to chaos units, nurgle cant do sweeping advances(i think thats what there called, n are stoic ), khorne has to engage in some kind of combat every turn or suffer a d6 result, tzzench (sp, ooooh i hate that word)are mindless automatons, who need a command figure or suffer a d6 result to guide there actions, and slaanesh well lets say they have very harsh results"
> 
> why oh why oh why.
> 
> Of all rumors i hope to god this is wrong...chaos dont need more random roll tables....


Agreed, this could potentially ruin the entire chaos codex in one go.

Let's look at some of the units that have negative or random aspects.

Chaos dreads, shokk attack guns, wraithlord, possessed. You may notice some things they have in common. They aren't ever used because they are unreliable. If they made the entire codex unreliable like this, you will see every list either be black legion or the whole codex could flop right on the spot.

Khorne - of course you want to be in melee, but being forced to go to melee at inopportune times could ruin the army. 
Nurgle - no sweeping advanced could be ok...but they had better be hard as shit to justify this.
Tzeentch - being out of control of your units is pants on head retarded. if there is any possibility that your units could be out of your control, then expect them not to ever be used.
Slanesh - well they already talked about some potentially devastating negative effects, so let's not even fathom what they are talking about here.

Oh boy, i'm concerned. I pray to god that codex wide randomization is just a rumor, or is massively overstated it true.


----------



## Count_the_Seven

Eleven - which God are you praying to?



CtS


----------



## LukeValantine

I am all for random shit if it pays of when used right, the reason that no one takes possessed or csm dreads is nothing in the rules justifies there random suck. For instance if csm dreads where 70pts base, or had 4A then people would tolerate the crazed rules. Possessed aren't used because of all the handicaps they have the only roll the justifies there retarded high cost power weapon, or FNP as every other roll makes them incredibly over coshed for a marines with no guns or nades.

For instance I would tolerate the berzerker rule if they were 21 points, with 2A 5S with WS5 and furious charge, however if they have no positives to heavily balance the weakness then the book will fail hard.


----------



## Khorothis

Eleven said:


> *Nurgle* - no sweeping advanced could be ok...but they had better be *hard as shit* to justify this.


I lol'ed.

I'm an old time Ward-hater but I really liked what he did with the Necrons: great fluff and great rules and none of that Bray Knight bullshit. And even if this CSM 'dex won't be as good as that, you can take your pick from his other codices in terms of cheese level. So I'm not worried rules-wise but I'm horrified what might happen to the fluff. Unless it gets as awesome as the Necrons' because in that case I'm going to barf rainbows.


----------



## Khargoth

LukeValantine said:


> For instance if csm dreads where 70pts base, or had 4A then people would tolerate the crazed rules.


I'd take dreads if they hadn't changed the Frenzy rules so that they pretty much only ever attack your own units. Turn on the spot my ass. I still have my plasma cannon/havoc launcher Dread from the good old days...


----------



## Legiomortis

Theyre not too bad when you take into account they have to fire at the first -visible- unit within their line of sight before turning, the 'dex is a little odd on its wording but it got faq'd and you shoot at the visible units before you turn on your own guys, hence why my plasma cannon nurgle dread always goes in the front line, hell I -want- it to get fire frnzy so I get x2 cannon shots on the enemy


----------



## Katie Drake

Legiomortis said:


> Theyre not too bad when you take into account they have to fire at the first -visible- unit within their line of sight before turning, the 'dex is a little odd on its wording but it got faq'd and you shoot at the visible units before you turn on your own guys, hence why my plasma cannon nurgle dread always goes in the front line, hell I -want- it to get fire frnzy so I get x2 cannon shots on the enemy


Do you have a link to that FAQ that states that? I haven't been paying a lot of attention lately and that would be a big deal.


----------



## Rems

Legiomortis said:


> Theyre not too bad when you take into account they have to fire at the first -visible- unit within their line of sight before turning, the 'dex is a little odd on its wording but it got faq'd and you shoot at the visible units before you turn on your own guys, hence why my plasma cannon nurgle dread always goes in the front line, hell I -want- it to get fire frnzy so I get x2 cannon shots on the enemy



I'm looking at the latest Chaos marine FAQ right now and there's nothing that says this. 

As Katie says, link please. 

This is big news if true, actually makes Chaos dreads somewhat reliably usable now.


----------



## stuff

http://www.theruleslawyers.com/2009/09/chaos-dreadnought-fire-frenzy-in-5th-edition/

^^^ this would be the discussion that leads to the conclusion that it is the visible units you fire at first. I was shown it the other day in the chaos armylist section. Seems to be reasonably logical but I am not sure how well received it would be by your average opponent.


----------



## Zion

Katie Drake said:


> Do you have a link to that FAQ that states that? I haven't been paying a lot of attention lately and that would be a big deal.


I just looked at the English FAQ and the only Dreadnought rule it has states that you can't pop smoke to prevent from shooting when fire frenzy-ing. Maybe this a different language FAQ?


----------



## Dave T Hobbit

stuff said:


> http://www.theruleslawyers.com/2009/09/chaos-dreadnought-fire-frenzy-in-5th-edition/
> 
> ^^^ this would be the discussion that leads to the conclusion that it is the visible units you fire at first. I was shown it the other day in the chaos armylist section. Seems to be reasonably logical but I am not sure how well received it would be by your average opponent.


We have discussed Fire Frenzy at length before, so (before the thread is derailed) let us agree that the rule is not as clear as it could be and that we all hope that the next Codex will not contain any unclear rules.


----------



## Legiomortis

My apologies I should have been more concise, I was referring to the drawing LOS (P.16 BRB top right paragraph under "Check LOS and pick a target") rather than the CSM 'dex itself, problem with issues relating to dex's when written before a new edition (such as Avatar's daemonic ruling etc) 

I agree totally with Dave that its not as clear as it should be but in our FLGS we go with the BRB overriding any misc or unclear rules from the dex, such as drawing LOS to a unit first before pivoting, but with unclear rules I guess its up to each opponent.

One little niggling question I have though, why is it people are still under the impression that Ward is writing the CSM dex when its been confirmed he isnt? (such as our chat with Mr Mcniell and his slip up about Phil Kelly and Wards own confirmation that he isnt on the CSM dex?) Not trying to ruffle feathers here but genuinely confused is all.


----------



## stuff

I agree with the above, was unsure why there was still any debate about it, Phil Kelly is the one writing the codex as far as we seem to be aware.

Was wondering if there is likely to be many new models along with the codex other than new characters? seeing as plague marines have been released in finecast I assume they will stay the same. Thousand Sons on the other hand.....? I would speculate that GW might release some upgrade kits similar to the dark angels one for some of the different legions?


----------



## Mundungu

I hope they make all cult troops in plastic. Raptors could go either way, depending on how much they change. Personally, I'd love a re-scuplt on them.


----------



## GreatUncleanOne

For the love of all that is unholy I want plastic plaguemarines!! Bring on the nurgle love!!


----------



## TheSpore

GreatUncleanOne said:


> For the love of all that is unholy I want plastic plaguemarines!! Bring on the nurgle love!!


NO plastic for you, only masking tape and spit


----------



## MaidenManiac

mcmuffin said:


> Well, if there was anyone for that job, its GW.


Well played :thank_you:



Eleven said:


> ....Random rules.....Agreed, this could potentially ruin the entire chaos codex in one go.
> 
> Let's look at some of the units that have negative or random aspects.
> 
> Chaos dreads, shokk attack guns, wraithlord, possessed. You may notice some things they have in common. They aren't ever used because they are unreliable. If they made the entire codex unreliable like this, you will see every list either be black legion or the whole codex could flop right on the spot.
> 
> Khorne - of course you want to be in melee, but being forced to go to melee at inopportune times could ruin the army.
> Nurgle - no sweeping advanced could be ok...but they had better be hard as shit to justify this.
> Tzeentch - being out of control of your units is pants on head retarded. if there is any possibility that your units could be out of your control, then expect them not to ever be used.
> Slanesh - well they already talked about some potentially devastating negative effects, so let's not even fathom what they are talking about here.
> 
> Oh boy, i'm concerned. I pray to god that codex wide randomization is just a rumor, or is massively overstated it true.



Agree here too.

Random would be ok on a D100 system where it might actually feel random as there are enough results to prevent you from rolling the same 28 times in 1 game.
On a D6 system its not. Its simply not "random", its fucking happening all the time.
If these "very bad random bullshit fuck rumours" regarding EC are true I damn sure they cost less then normal Tacticals since it will happen at least 1 time/round in a normal army:threaten:

Sadly the "random fun rules" have rarely, if ever, been represented in units costs in any GW game. Prime example here being Stupidity in WHFB. Its barely playable in 8th thanks to 1000 different buffs to other rules that just happened to also concern them, but normal units are still better. Pre 8th, well, lets just say no...


----------



## hungryugolino

Why do I get the feeling Slaanesh is going to be nerfed into oblivion along with Obliterators?


----------



## MaidenManiac

hungryugolino said:


> Why do I get the feeling Slaanesh is going to be nerfed into oblivion along with Obliterators?


Well, if they feel that they need to nerf a 25 pt model thats horribly outmatched by a PAGK then go ahead....


Im just praying hard to Slaanesh that this here "retard random bad stuff" rumour is a internet hoax.
By now GW should have realized that random is not = fun. 
Its = sad, unnecessary and game ruining.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Can't wait, I've lost a lot of love for my current khorne army and I want to breathe some life into it.


----------



## whiplash308

Mundungu said:


> I hope they make all cult troops in plastic. Raptors could go either way, depending on how much they change. Personally, I'd love a re-scuplt on them.


They make Assault Marine plastic kits, why not make Raptor plastic kits? The Raptors themselves look amazing, but those..damn..Finecast..sculpts....ahhhhhhhhh. -:suicide:

On another note, where did we hear of "Codex Wide Randomness"? If that happens, I'll probably never touch Chaos.

..actually what am I saying. I'm already crazy enough to play current Chaos..
even still, I'd probably cry if I had an entire army of "Chaos Dreadnoughts".


----------



## TheSpore

whiplash308 said:


> They make Assault Marine plastic kits, why not make Raptor plastic kits? The Raptors themselves look amazing, but those..damn..Finecast..sculpts....ahhhhhhhhh. -:suicide:
> 
> On another note, where did we hear of "Codex Wide Randomness"? If that happens, I'll probably never touch Chaos.
> 
> ..actually what am I saying. I'm already crazy enough to play current Chaos..
> even still, I'd probably cry if I had an entire army of "Chaos Dreadnoughts".


Hear Hear, those raptors are pretty nice looking models but the failcast version are just horid to work with.


----------



## whiplash308

Well the problem with me is that Finecast isn't hard to work with, it's just that I'd rather have my own poses of models as opposed to set sculpts on stupid bases. GW needs to invest in a plastic Raptor kit. I would buy 10 of them.


----------



## TheSpore

whiplash308 said:


> Well the problem with me is that Finecast isn't hard to work with, it's just that I'd rather have my own poses of models as opposed to set sculpts on stupid bases. GW needs to invest in a plastic Raptor kit. I would buy 10 of them.


Thats alotta raptors, I agree though I don't enjoy haveing the army of clones either.

I personally think when Chaos gets its update must will wind up failcast and plastic in the long run


----------



## LukeValantine

So who will stand with me in open violent protest against all gw gaming centers if the next codex is entirely comprised of chaos dreadnought fail marines? Mind you my standards for crap like that is fairly high, but I am just saying this in case they really screw the pooch for one reason or another (They most likely wont, but yah never know.


----------



## mcmuffin

LukeValantine said:


> So who will stand with me in open violent protest against all gw gaming centers if the next codex is entirely comprised of chaos dreadnought fail marines? Mind you my standards for crap like that is fairly high, but I am just saying this in case they really screw the pooch for one reason or another (They most likely wont, but yah never know.


Due to Chaos being the second best selling line in 40k, i would sincerely doubt whether they will create another fail-worthy codex. The last one was part of their short lived idea to streamline all codices, so i wouldnt be surprised if we see a book more akin to 5th ed IG or SM in terms of options, where there are huge numbers of different builds and customisation options. I can see the armoury coming back into play for god specific items. For example

A chaos lord may take the mark of khorne for...pts. If this is taken, he may have access to the book of khorne wargear items.


----------



## whiplash308

TheSpore said:


> Thats alotta raptors, I agree though I don't enjoy haveing the army of clones either.
> 
> I personally think when Chaos gets its update must will wind up failcast and plastic in the long run


Now you caught my drift. Yeah, I'm sure the remainder of the Chaos heroes will eventually go Failcast, along with some kits being converted to plastic....like Raptors. 



...that's if GW is smart.


----------



## TheSpore

whiplash308;1121759
...that's if GW is smart.[/QUOTE said:


> GW smart, such blasphemy you seak, by order of the Inquisition I dub thee heretic...


----------



## shaantitus

Frankly, if they added the posessed wings in large numbers to the bezerker, posessed and standard csm boxes then raptors would be covered admirably. No need for a new kit.


----------



## Khargoth

mcmuffin said:


> Due to Chaos being the second best selling line in 40k, i would sincerely doubt whether they will create another fail-worthy codex.


I'm not putting _anything_ past GW. If it's shit, it's shit. They'll develop the Codex as they see fit, and then we get to see if it's any good or not. About the safest bet you can make is that anything with a new kit has about a 50/50 shot of kicking ass.



mcmuffin said:


> The last one was part of their short lived idea to streamline all codices, so i wouldnt be surprised if we see a book more akin to 5th ed IG or SM in terms of options, where there are huge numbers of different builds and customisation options. I can see the armoury coming back into play for god specific items.


This would be very nice, and a step back towards the great parts of 3.5; absolutely tonnes of build variety. I gotta say it was an absolute slap in the face to be served a stripped-down and harshly nerfed Chaos dex, and then see a Loyalist codex dripping with options release not long after.



shaantitus said:


> Frankly, if they added the posessed wings in large numbers to the bezerker, posessed and standard csm boxes then raptors would be covered admirably. No need for a new kit.


That's got me thinking. With the way GW is going crazy for multi-unit kits, we could well see a Possessed/Raptor kit. The Raptors already have a biomechanical vibe to them, and they could push that further to make them seem less like Chaos Marines with jump packs. Heck, Possessed with jump packs bursting out of their backs, Obliterator-style would be cool, if they bring back a Jump Infantry option for Possessed.


----------



## TheSpore

Ide like to see the possessed become more customisable as far in game goes, you know give them a mark, and maybe specific gifts that coincide with that mark, kinda like how the DP is done in the daemons dex. Get rid of that whole icon business too, oh know jimmy with icon died so what god were we worshiping again.


----------



## whiplash308

Though I do like the idea of a Possessed/Raptor kit, I just don't see myself having 30 Raptors all with wings. The current Raptors look awesome! The helmets, the armor, the jump packs..all of that. Having 30 Raptors, for example, with Possessed wings (or equivalent, see Tyranid Gargoyle wings for details) just doesn't want to make me look at Raptors. The old Raptors from before with the vampire wing things looked awful. The current Raptors look absolutely glorious..but wings? Not feeling it.

As I said before, I do see a Raptor/Possessed kit in the future, but that kit better come with jump packs for the Raptors, and wings for the Possessed....and those wings better give Possessed a 12" move unlike now (damn aesthetics)....


----------



## Orochi

Unless possesed go the way of Vanguard marines... with Chosen going toward Sternguard. One combat, one ranged.

I would love plastic obliterators. Doubt many will disagree.

Ahriman and co from the 90s need new models... but that's not old news (although Ahriman's model is still pretty swish).

Just as long as they don't make the God specific troops unique units....!


----------



## Achaylus72

As for Possessed Wing Packs for Raptors, i did that 2 years ago, i only use Possessed Wing Packs on normal chaos space marines and field them as Raptors.


----------



## whiplash308

Orochi said:


> Unless possesed go the way of Vanguard marines... with Chosen going toward Sternguard. One combat, one ranged.
> 
> I would love plastic obliterators. Doubt many will disagree.
> 
> Ahriman and co from the 90s need new models... but that's not old news (although Ahriman's model is still pretty swish).
> 
> Just as long as they don't make the God specific troops unique units....!


1: I can kinda see Possessed being sort of like Vanguards, being all special..except instead of wargear, we give them daemonic gifts. Chosen being only ranged units is kinda pushing it in my opinion though. They're supposed to be the Chaos Lord's badasses, not guys who stay back and shoot at things with special ammunition. Veteran skills and minor daemonic gifts would work well with them

2: Instead of metal baseballs for units we call "Obliterators" being plastic, how about a brand new kit? 

3: I agree. Some of the heroes are quite outdated and old. A new Abaddon model has been spoken about I believe, Lucius and his damn whip needs to be changed, Ahriman is fine-ish, Huron is pathetic in every right, Kharn has been around for ages, and Fabius Bile is horrid in every aspect. Typhus is perhaps the only most badass looking model of all of the heroes. Let's just not include the 3rd edition models in the HQ metal range.

4: If they go back to "Books of Chaos", then I certainly wouldn't mind that, but I would indeed like diversity in my armies as opposed to play a list of nothing but Khornate lunatics charging headlong into the enemy, dying in every imaginable way before they even reach them.


----------



## mcmuffin

Personally, i would rather see chosen go the way of paladins. 2 wound WS 5 powerhouses, basically each one being like a mini-lord with tonnes of customisable options for them including daemonic gifts. If we see the 4 core daemon troops as well as the 4 greater daemons i will also be a happy camper.


----------



## Ravion

It would be nice if GW or FW made more conversion kits for the different chaos legions. I'm still waiting for a Thousand Sons kit to come out. When will they get some love and attention?


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Something like these you mean?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440209a&prodId=prod1095442

It would be great if they would do something like...

...oh!


----------



## LukeValantine

normtheunsavoury said:


> Something like these you mean?
> 
> http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440209a&prodId=prod1095442
> 
> It would be great if they would do something like...
> 
> ...oh!


I think he means for the army over all, like rhino doors and defiler bits.


----------



## Achaylus72

I would like to see that each of the Traitor Legions get some loving within their own section of an expanded Codex with specific IC and troops.

And then we have a generic Chaos Codex.

However i have been extensively read many articles in old WD's and discovered a third and fourth Chaos Xeno race Chaos Vampyres and Beasts, i will try and track down which WD it came from but it seems that in the world of Chaos we have in the 40K universe.

Chaos Space Marines/Traitor Guard
Chaos Daemons
Chaos Vampyres (this could tie in nicely to a Xover of Fantasy Vampyre Counts)
Chaos Beasts (this can be easily fixed with a Xover with Fantasy Beastmen)

So it beggars belief that Chaos has never expanded more than it has.


----------



## LukeValantine

Achaylus72 said:


> I would like to see that each of the Traitor Legions get some loving within their own section of an expanded Codex with specific IC and troops.
> 
> And then we have a generic Chaos Codex.
> 
> However i have been extensively read many articles in old WD's and discovered a third and fourth Chaos Xeno race Chaos Vampyres and Beasts, i will try and track down which WD it came from but it seems that in the world of Chaos we have in the 40K universe.
> 
> Chaos Space Marines/Traitor Guard
> Chaos Daemons
> Chaos Vampyres (this could tie in nicely to a Xover of Fantasy Vampyre Counts)
> Chaos Beasts (this can be easily fixed with a Xover with Fantasy Beastmen)
> 
> So it beggars belief that Chaos has never expanded more than it has.


Only problem is vampyres are not a race, but more of a anomaly in the natural process of death in 40k.

If I remember the article right they were the souls of extremely powerful psykers that somehow escape the pull of the warp to inhabited their corpse or someone else s bodies as a means to anchor themselves from the inevitable oblivion of the warp. If I remember right they also had to feed on the life force of other creatures to keep their own host or corpse from decaying. Some however make bargains with daemons in exchange for power and or some shelter freedom from the warp. 

So you would never see more then a hand full of them in a entire galaxy do to the need for a powerful psyker and some cruel hand of fate allowing them to escape the warp. Now I could see them as a HQ for a lost and the damned style army or as some sort of escort/squad leader for a CSM army.


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## SilverTabby

Beastmen used to be available as options in 40k but never made it past Rogue Trader and the books of chaos. There is no reason at all you can't use the figures though, with centigors being chaos bikers, beastmen as traitor guard, etc. 

They don't need to release a seperate book for beastmen when imaginative use of existing codeces will do it, and other armies need love more than chaos getting a third proposed book...


----------



## TheSpore

They just need to make The Big Fat Book of Chaos Love, the vampyres thing is quite interesting and I always felt that 40k was lacking that department some(BA don't count they are still alive and they freaking sparkle). 

What I was always wishing for was wihen it comes to the daemon army we have now is why they can't give each god specific a new 2nd type of troop unit, rather than the current commons daemonic troops each god has, I just find it hard to believe that Khorne or Slaanesh would just make blood letters and daemonettes alone.


----------



## Uveron

What I really want to see, is… 

Marks of Chaos for all! 
Cultist,(and having to have a unit per Cult troops!) 
Reasons to take pure, marked armys, (I am thinking if you only have one mark in an army you get a spcial unit, Aka Plague Zombies for an all nurgle army, a cabal of sourcrers for a all teeznch amy, and so on.) 

And just more options…


----------



## notsoevil

All I can say is this new codex can't arrive soon enough.


----------



## Tzeen Qhayshek

I don't believe rumors from anyone who can't spell.

I would rather just be surprised at this point.


----------



## Major Braindead

Ok, this is probably a stupid question, but I need to ask it since I'm building my first Chaos army.

The Chaos army I'm trying to build is basically Thousand Sons. I have two squads painted and then some other stuff painted in Tzeentch colors to create that nice unified look, my current project being a squad of 10 'normal' Chaos Space Marines and a Rhino.
Now, with all the rumours that are being spread, I've come to an awkward point. 
If GW is going to create the legions, how will this work with the Thousand Sons?
Right now people field Thousand Sons and the 'normal' Chaos Marines and it's still considered a Thousand Sons army. If the legion itself comes back, can I still field my Chaos Marines alongside my actual Thousand Sons? According to the fluff they were all changed into mindless automatons, their sorcerers leading them.
My army is only about 1125 points and I'm a slow painter. I'd like to keep working on it, but I don't want to paint models I can no longer use in half a year or so. Does anyone have advice on this subject?


----------



## normtheunsavoury

I wouldn't worry about it too much, as long as everyone is OK with it (and why wouldn't they be?) you should be fine using your CSM as TSons Rubric Marines. If anyone says anything just say 'they're Chaos Marines, Derp!'


----------



## shaantitus

I think in the old 3.5 chaos tzeentch armies could field rubric marines as troops and csm's with the mark of tzeentch also. I would say that the new dex will do something similar. I would be certain that you would be able to field CSM's alongside rubrics in some form or another.


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## Uveron

Major Braindead said:


> Ok, this is probably a stupid question, but I need to ask it since I'm building my first Chaos army.
> 
> The Chaos army I'm trying to build is basically Thousand Sons. I have two squads painted and then some other stuff painted in Tzeentch colors to create that nice unified look, my current project being a squad of 10 'normal' Chaos Space Marines and a Rhino.
> Now, with all the rumours that are being spread, I've come to an awkward point.
> If GW is going to create the legions, how will this work with the Thousand Sons?
> Right now people field Thousand Sons and the 'normal' Chaos Marines and it's still considered a Thousand Sons army. If the legion itself comes back, can I still field my Chaos Marines alongside my actual Thousand Sons? According to the fluff they were all changed into mindless automatons, their sorcerers leading them.
> My army is only about 1125 points and I'm a slow painter. I'd like to keep working on it, but I don't want to paint models I can no longer use in half a year or so. Does anyone have advice on this subject?


I Very, Very much doubt that there will only be pure Legion forces, It would be a big change, Chaos armys have been Warbands lead by champions of chaos formed from a number of sources, since the "dawn of time". A pure Chaos Legion book, will look at the sources that originate with the Legions, but will allow you to mix and match.. 

And to Point out, unless things change manicly in the fluff (which happens.. ahem) the Named Charitor for the Thousand Sons has been exiled from it anyway..


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## Uveron

Tzeen Qhayshek said:


> I don't believe rumors from anyone who can't spell.


Just because someone cannot spell, doesn't mean they are not intelligent or are somehow less in the know than yourself.


----------



## Katie Drake

shaantitus said:


> I think in the old 3.5 chaos tzeentch armies could field rubric marines as troops and csm's with the mark of tzeentch also. I would say that the new dex will do something similar. I would be certain that you would be able to field CSM's alongside rubrics in some form or another.


Actually, Chaos Marines with the Mark of Tzeentch _were_ Thousand Sons - cult Marines and normal Chaos Space Marines weren't distinct units like they are now. You created Cult Marines by giving a unit of Chaos Marines a Mark.

That being said I wouldn't worry about not being able to field your stuff. It's pretty uncommon for GW to totally invalidate anyone's stuff these days so I wouldn't worry too much.



Uveron said:


> Just because someone cannot spell, doesn't mean they are not intelligent or are somehow less in the know than yourself.


No but it does hurt their credibility. If you had a university professor that spoke incredibly poor english (not due to being foreign but due to being dumb as shit) you'd probably have a hard time taking him seriously too. It's the same thing.


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## mcmuffin

I just want 3.5 back, and i spent the last year writing up a new csm codex with rules for legions etc in it, if anyone is interested(still wip). I just want a flavourful army again, i want to be able to field my uber chaos lord of khorne on a juggernaut!


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## Svartmetall

Major Braindead said:


> Right now people field Thousand Sons and the 'normal' Chaos Marines and it's still considered a Thousand Sons army. If the legion itself comes back, can I still field my Chaos Marines alongside my actual Thousand Sons? According to the fluff they were all changed into mindless automatons, their sorcerers leading them.


All Thousand Sons are Tzeentch worshippers and have the Mark of Tzeentch, but by no means all Tzeentch worshippers - i.e. all those with the Mark of Tzeentch, for gaming purposes - are Thousand Sons; there are plenty of other Tzeentch-aligned Chaos Marines out there who've never had anything to do with the Sons. Remember it was only the Thousand Sons Legion specifically who suffered the effects of the Rubric, and have the mixture of Rubric Marine automata and Sorcerors in their ranks; the mix you end up using for your own army will tell you whether it's an indepedent Tzeentch army that happens to have some Sons in there, or a Thousand Sons army that happens to have some other Tzeentch-aligned Chaos Marines in their ranks to increase the number of self-aware Marines overall. One of the nice things about Chaos Marines in general is the amount of freedom you have in working out this sort of thing, since you're not tied to following The Thoughts Of Chairman Guilliman to keep things correct fluff-wise.


----------



## Uveron

Katie Drake said:


> No but it does hurt their credibility. If you had a university professor that spoke incredibly poor english (not due to being foreign but due to being dumb as shit) you'd probably have a hard time taking him seriously too. It's the same thing.


So once again, the inability to Speak and Spell = Unintelligent. Just wow… Anyway, I will leave it here and trust try and ignore this stuff before I take it to personally. 

Anyway... This Chaos Legion thing. At the end of the day the good money will be on the fact that the book will mainly be about one Legion, the Black Legion, as per normal. They are and have been the "Ultras" of Chaos since "the dawn of time". 

If the Rumors are true and we get a renegade book as well, They will all be about the Red Corsairs. I have this doubt in my mind about this rumor, just something about it, if we were a few years after a new Edition, I could see it more but with E6 on the doorstep, not sure about it.. I mean whos writing 6th Ed, Cruddace? haven't seen his name attached to much lately... But we have what 3 main writers... a quite a number of projects being talked about, I cannot see GW makeing more work for themselves at this point.


----------



## yanlou

Uveron said:


> I Very, Very much doubt that there will only be pure Legion forces, It would be a big change, Chaos armys have been Warbands lead by champions of chaos formed from a number of sources, since the "dawn of time". A pure Chaos Legion book, will look at the sources that originate with the Legions, but will allow you to mix and match..
> 
> And to Point out, unless things change manicly in the fluff (which happens.. ahem) the Named Charitor for the Thousand Sons has been exiled from it anyway..


If the rumors are true then the new CSM codex will solely be about pure legion rules and warbands will be in the other CSM codex, if rumors are true, but as other members have said, dont worry about it, i doubt GW would invalidate the basic troops, i can see them been aspiring Rubrics (icon of Tzeentch), (like scouts in the SM dex) and Rubrics been of cause full Rubrics.


----------



## Katie Drake

Uveron said:


> So once again, the inability to Speak and Spell = Unintelligent. Just wow… Anyway, I will leave it here and trust try and ignore this stuff before I take it to personally.


No... it means that people will _perceive_ the individual as being unintelligent. I'm horrible at math (like absolutely terrible, I failed almost every math class I ever took). If someone's first impression of me was seeing me attempt to answer math questions then in all likelihood they'd think I wasn't the smartest person. Despite being bad at math I tend to do just fine in other areas but that's not going to help people's first impression in the above scenario. Does that make more sense?


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## OIIIIIIO

I too have a VERY hard time with numbers due to dyslexia (5/4 of us have a terrible time with fractions) and I have to deal with some people that think they are smart because they have a college education. These are the same people that give me proposals that have spelling errors on them ... printed from a computer that has a spell check feature. I really can't help but think that they are either really fucking dumb, or really fucking lazy. Either way I pretty much write them off.

OT: One thing that I was wondering about was this, I have been reading the HH series and they keep bringing up the Storm Birds. Are they a precursor to the Thunder Guppies that GK and BA players have? If so how much are they going to nerf them do you think?


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## Eleven

Katie Drake said:


> No but it does hurt their credibility. If you had a university professor that spoke incredibly poor english (not due to being foreign but due to being dumb as shit) you'd probably have a hard time taking him seriously too. It's the same thing.


What if he was a linguist that specialized in ebonics?


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## Katie Drake

Eleven said:


> What if he was a linguist that specialized in ebonics?


I think you get what I'm trying to say.


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## yanlou

OIIIIIIO said:


> OT: One thing that I was wondering about was this, I have been reading the HH series and they keep bringing up the Storm Birds. Are they a precursor to the Thunder Guppies that GK and BA players have? If so how much are they going to nerf them do you think?


Stormsbirds are actually bigger then Thunderhawks, if i remember rightly they could carry a whole companies into battle, i think it would be massive kit probably same size if not bigger then the Tau Manta, well thats the impression i get from the book.


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## deathwatch27

I dont think they're that big. maybe carry 50 troops not a hundred (size of a post-HH SM company). It would still be a much bigger kit than the TH thou. Maybe a FW model in the future would be cool.


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## mcmuffin

A stormbird can carry 100 fully armoured space marines, so yes, i would imagine it would be similar in size to the manta.


----------



## Khargoth

We'll never get something from the Heresy era that was outright awesome until the Loyalists get it first. That's just how it works.


----------



## Mundungu

that's fine, so long as we can get some cool stuff from the Dark Mechanicus. The Defiler is a great start, but in 10k years, that's all they could come up with? Chaos has 1/2 the mechanicus and it's own forge worlds. How is it they have yet to find even one STC that the Imperium has not.


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## forkmaster

Gonna dabble in since this thread shows some nice info. It sucks for me who has spent pretty much all money available on CSM already to make 2 completely functioning armies. I even bought Lucius but now that he might be updated or made by Finecast, that breaks my heart a tiny bit.

It also sucks that Matt Ward might have a finger or two in the writing, but I hope not. And as always it it Slaanesh and her followers that gets all the bad stuff to balance out the army. XD Hopefully they will make a goodlooking Dread soon, before a I order one from Forge World. I got my eyes on one for a really really long time now.


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## SilverTabby

Big bag of salt on the "Ward is writing these books" rumour... :wink:


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## MaidenManiac

SilverTabby said:


> Big bag of salt on the "Ward is writing these books" rumour... :wink:


ive either red or gotten the impression that Kelly writes the Traitor Legion codex:read:


Forkmaster nothing can be worse then what we have now as Slaanesh players Id say. I seriously doubt you wont be able to make something useful our of all your stuff!
Bout that EC FWdread. I have one and its pure win (talking sculpt). If youre after a good looking dread I reccomend it:wink:


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## whiplash308

Converting a Furioso Dreadnought did wonders for me. All it took was a daemon prince armguard, daemon prince leg guards, Chaos tank sprues and a Chaos warrior shield to get the job done. 

On another note, yes the current Chaos Dreadnought is not only ugly, but ancient as all fucking hell. An actual plastic Chaos Dreadnought kit would be great. However I don't see one any time soon.


God damn derp arm.


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## Achaylus72

whiplash308 said:


> Converting a Furioso Dreadnought did wonders for me. All it took was a daemon prince armguard, daemon prince leg guards, Chaos tank sprues and a Chaos warrior shield to get the job done.
> 
> On another note, yes the current Chaos Dreadnought is not only ugly, but ancient as all fucking hell. An actual plastic Chaos Dreadnought kit would be great. However I don't see one any time soon.
> 
> 
> God damn derp arm.


Feh, for me i have decided to just slightly convert the Assault on Black Reach Space Marine Dreadnought.


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## TheSpore

forkmaster said:


> Gonna dabble in since this thread shows some nice info. It sucks for me who has spent pretty much all money available on CSM already to make 2 completely functioning armies. I even bought Lucius but now that he might be updated or made by Finecast, that breaks my heart a tiny bit.
> 
> It also sucks that Matt Ward might have a finger or two in the writing, but I hope not. And as always it it Slaanesh and her followers that gets all the bad stuff to balance out the army. XD Hopefully they will make a goodlooking Dread soon, before a I order one from Forge World. I got my eyes on one for a really really long time now.





MaidenManiac said:


> ive either red or gotten the impression that Kelly writes the Traitor Legion codex:read:
> 
> Forkmaster nothing can be worse then what we have now as Slaanesh players Id say. I seriously doubt you wont be able to make something useful our of all your stuff!
> Bout that EC FWdread. I have one and its pure win (talking sculpt). If youre after a good looking dread I reccomend it:wink:


Dude Slaanesh has gotten the short end of the stick for far to long, same goes with zteench, the focus has always been khorne and nurgle just because they are so popular. It makes me angry personally, because there is so much other stuff they can do for those two.


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## mcmuffin

I definitely think a TS warcoven should make an appearance in the heavy support slot with some crazy-ass psychic powers.


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## MaidenManiac

TheSpore said:


> Dude Slaanesh has gotten the short end of the stick for far to long, same goes with zteench, the focus has always been khorne and nurgle just because they are so popular. It makes me angry personally, because there is so much other stuff they can do for those two.


Agreed.

Its very likely because you need to think when you design things for those 2 Gods. Khorne is simply add skulls, a rune and a sinister CC weapon and youre set. Nurgle is simply take a model, puke on it and youre set*.

Slaanesh and Tzeentch requires both more elegant models and ingenious, rather then "kill! or stumble and endure model" rules to fit and that was at least obviously way too hard for the "old guard" of the design studio (that are gone now to my unlimited joy, die Gav and Alessio.)
Both gods have lots of possibilities, it just requires some more thinking.
Luckily though FW seems to have settled on IA12 being Tzeentch based and that should leave IA13 for Slaanesh. 2012-2013 will quite likely be the best time ever for those 2 neglected chaos deitys :angel:



*No offence ment to those very few persons that model nurglesque units with care and passion. The vast majority seems to use nurgle as a reason to both paint and convert shoddily.:search:


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## TheSpore

MaidenManiac said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Its very likely because you need to think when you design things for those 2 Gods. Khorne is simply add skulls, a rune and a sinister CC weapon and youre set. Nurgle is simply take a model, puke on it and youre set*.
> 
> Slaanesh and Tzeentch requires both more elegant models and ingenious, rather then "kill! or stumble and endure model" rules to fit and that was at least obviously way too hard for the "old guard" of the design studio (that are gone now to my unlimited joy, die Gav and Alessio.)
> Both gods have lots of possibilities, it just requires some more thinking.
> Luckily though FW seems to have settled on IA12 being Tzeentch based and that should leave IA13 for Slaanesh. 2012-2013 will quite likely be the best time ever for those 2 neglected chaos deitys :angel:
> 
> 
> 
> *No offence ment to those very few persons that model nurglesque units with care and passion. The vast majority seems to use nurgle as a reason to both paint and convert shoddily.:search:


I think they get worst off in the Video Game world, sure WH Online was all about the tzeench and MoC was all about the nurgle, but really almost every game made based on WH has always been about Khorne, Khorne, and More Khorne, its just a shame because Slaanesh and Tzeench are just so much more interesting than the other two. 
Yes your right about Nurgle I am often guilty of using the Nurgle excuse when I paint badly.


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## notsoevil

Nurgle ftw, just sayin'.


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## Achaylus72

TheSpore said:


> I think they get worst off in the Video Game world, sure WH Online was all about the tzeench and MoC was all about the nurgle, but really almost every game made based on WH has always been about Khorne, Khorne, and More Khorne, its just a shame because Slaanesh and Tzeench are just so much more interesting than the other two.
> Yes your right about Nurgle I am often guilty of using the Nurgle excuse when I paint badly.


Nurgle models are never painted badly, you're forgiven.


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## whiplash308

^^ Agreed on that statement.


----------



## GreatUncleanOne

apart from some few models (apart from FW) I fail to see how nurgle is getting good treatment and even then they are all metal. I would say that any legion gets boned. they all need the love!!!


----------



## El Mariachi

Rules wise Nurgle are definitely best off. For me personally, Plague Marines have to be amongst the best troop types in the game. It's like you take you're bog standard tactical marine and give him all the rules you ever wanted, T5, Fearless, Boltgun and Boltpistol with close combat weapon, Blight Grenades so people never get their charge bonus on you and to top it off, Feel No Pain for those times when Power Armour by itself doesn't quite cut it . The only real disadvantage with them is they have I3 but with such staying power it's rarely ever a problem.

Having said that, I only have one squad of them (the Forgeworld conversion kit). They're amongst my favourite models- they're just so pricey!


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## Achaylus72

The main problem for Chaos, especially Slaanesh and Tzeentch that they are not as brutally destructive as Khorne and Nurgle, they are subtle, but generally speaking just about every Chaos player i have come across never plays Slaanesh and or Tzeentch, it is virtually all Khorne and or Nurgle.

I also believe that GW aren't really that interested in giving Slaanesh balls so to speak because considering that it really is an Eldar invention, which i also belive that Slaanesh should have stayed with Eldar and not crossed over to Chaos Space Marines as it did. GW should have come up with a viable fourth Chaos God specifically for Chaos Space Marines and leave Slaanesh for the Eldar to deal with.


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## space cowboy

The biggest problem I see with Slaanesh is, to be designed appropriately, they have to have numerous control elements (to borrow a term from the card games I play.) Those that aren't familiar with the term should be familiar with the concept as Lash is a control element.

The big problem with designing control elements into games is there is a large population of game players that _really_ don't like control elements and it ruins the game for them. Most people are fine when their dudes get blasted or hacked up in close combat, but we all know how bitterly people complained when the existing codex came out and Lash was big. People hate having their strategy messed up because their dudes got lashed into the open and clumped together then big templates dropped on them.

That being said, there is rarely a good balance that can be struck between competitive and weak; the average control elements in many games are either so good they are overpowering or so weak or unreliable as to not be worth fielding. I have yet to see a balance that people accept as a fun and balanced element of the game while being reliable enough to want to be used. If they could strike a good balance on a mechanic (or series of mechanics) then Slaanesh could be amazing.


----------



## Eleven

space cowboy said:


> I have yet to see a balance that people accept as a fun and balanced element of the game while being reliable enough to want to be used.


what about magic the gathering?

Or guild wars?

It's certainly not impossible. However, I don't trust GWS to accomplish it since they have never been anywhere close to good at balance in their video games or their table top games. That's not really a HUGE problem since you can just take warhammer as a roleplaying game. But if you are getting into the competitive mindset, it's a problem.

I don't think it matters for GWS if people are annoyed by a control build. Some people are annoyed by 3++ saves (me). Yet I have to put up with it all the time even though that it's stupid that you can block a demolisher cannon shot to the face with an arm mounted buckler. 

persecuting the players that like to play with status effects and control elements (aka, me) just because it makes the brute force people angry isn't the way to go. If people don't like playing against me, they don't have to, i'm fine with that. But it would be nice if they would write some rules for the play style that I like. Right now, the closest I can get is with all the magic stuff that necrons can do, but I think chaos (my first love) should be able to do way more crazy shit that controls the pace of the game than the necrons should.


----------



## TheSpore

I always felt that if any of the 4 should have more control elements should be tzeench, he is the changer of ways and often times just knows whats coming next and in many cases his followers tend to be given this sort of foresight, Slaanesh IMO should be more of the mobile speed freak style army rather than a bunch slow lumbering marines with a high I score, besides Khorne they should be the 2nd best at the CC game.


----------



## Khargoth

I think the best way to handle control elements, without pissing people off too much, is to have them only affect _your own_ army. Necrons and their teleportation shenanigans are a good example.

Whilst Slaanesh is all about temptation, and that angle could be used to affect enemy units, it's also about driving its own worshippers towards greater achievements. So, just pulling out of my ass, you could have things like stat buffs that ramp up with kills, units competing with each other for Slaanesh's attention and gain bonuses when within X" of each other, vehicles get bonus movement when moving flat out, weapons that increase/decrease in power based on how many hits are landed...

Basically, the whole army could revolve around "Your units get better when you do well, and worse when you're not". In a similar vein, Tzeentch would be the opposite; the more challenging a battle is proving to be, the more likely Tzeentch is to get involved and attempt to thwart this opponent, and if it's going too well, Tzeentch will consider it 'too easy' and lose interest.


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## whiplash308

Though I do somewhat agree with what everyone is saying is how Slaanesh and/or Tzeentch should be very control based, I have a couple of my own statements to input.

Yes Tzeentch is the Changer of Ways, but he also essentially the Chaos God of sorcery. In order to achieve that change, dark magic and psychic Chaos energy must be used. Tzeentch had it right in 3.5, and even though Chaos shit the bed with the current codex, it does currently have its fun aspects too. Having a pure Tzeentch army is very reliant on the tricks and shenanigans Tzeentchian sorcerers and/or daemons can pull off.

Slaanesh on the other hand is, as stated above, all about temptation. However I don't think that "when the dice roll better, our units get better" would be what anybody would want. We all hate Possessed because they're overpriced and not reliable because they need a good dice roll on their Daemonkin table. Yeah I thought that was pretty cool, but a random D6 roll isn't the way I want things. Chaos Dreadnoughts and Chaos Spawn; same thing. We all hate random dice rolls to determine what happens to them. Again I will reference 3.5 in its Book of Slaanesh awesomeness. I'd much rather not have an entire army that's based around attacks that need *good* dice rolls in order for them to be effective. Roll 20 close combat attacks, only hit 6, and all of a sudden your squad of Slaaneshi boys takes a shit on the floor? 

I do see what everyone is saying, but Tzeentch is more of a tricky, surprise to your enemy based army style, while Slaanesh is a very exciting style, having access to units that are pure masters in combat and have awesome shooting in the form of sonic weaponry. I certainly wouldn't want to see an army that relies on the tide of battle to be changed to the enemy's favor for "Tzeentch to take interest" or your dice rolls being awful or amazing for the "Slaanesh units being speed freaks or good/bad depending on your rolls".


----------



## Orochi

I just sincerely hope that Chosen do not go the way of the GK Paladin.

Infantry with 2 woulds is just unbearable. 

I will make exceptions for classic units such as Tyrands and Ork Nobz. But apart from that... I just disagree.

PLEASE SAY NO TO WOUND COUNT ESCALATION.


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## whiplash308

AND that ^^. 

I don't like high point cost models that die instantly to anything strength 8 or higher that goes through armor that has TWO wounds. 

....and there is a LOT of that nowadays.


----------



## TheSpore

Well chosen do need a reworking big time, I always feel like a dick making them suicide troops just to take out some freaking armour. These guys are suppose to be the best of the best, the true hardasses of the CSM, so why are they lil marines with meltas....


----------



## spanner94ezekiel

Terminators need to be an actual viable CC unit without costing insane amounts.


----------



## TheSpore

spanner94ezekiel said:


> Terminators need to be an actual viable CC unit without costing insane amounts.


They really need more freakin options and the current kit needs to be done like the SM where you have one for assaultys and one for the shootys, just my opinion, I feel flippin cheated when I hav to spend 100 bucks just to make 5 lightniing claw termies...

Make the TS and NM kits all freaking plastic and update those poor Zerks too, god they feel so old when I assemble them.

Bring back the Doom Rider with a proper kit that actually relfects his appearance.

Rant fin


----------



## mcmuffin

whiplash308 said:


> AND that ^^.
> 
> I don't like high point cost models that die instantly to anything strength 8 or higher that goes through armor that has TWO wounds.
> 
> ....and there is a LOT of that nowadays.


I disagree. In the fluff, chosen are the elite of the elite. They are next in line to become Chaos lords and lieutenants. If they were 40 pts with 2 wounds and WS 5 i would be happy. Terminator armour upgrades would put them up to around 55 pts, in line with paladins. If they could take a single daemonic gift each (hopes they come back), that would be nice. They should be like mini-lords, cost a fair but, but deal insane amounts of killy-death in CC. 

Chosen as they are are just CSM with infiltrate. Either give them 2 wounds or give them a drastically improved stat line. Stubborn, preferred enemy and WS5 with 1 wound would also be fine by me.

Daemon princes (and daemons in general) need to have some sort of immunity to perils of the warp as well, seeing as they fucking live there


----------



## TheSpore

Thnx muffin you touched a something I forgot about, the genaric daemon, WTF I really don't feel to be to overpowered to give the CSM at least the GD and the troop choices for the god specific daemons, granted I like the whole they don't count as rule and it really make a fun game when you spam them, but its just goofy to think that a lord's patron whould cheap out in sending real daemons and instead of the special kids that he just never cared for.


----------



## Warlock in Training

huh been gone for 3 months and now Necs are out there and Possible Legions dex been hinted at. Wonders never cease....

About Damn Time.


----------



## hungryugolino

And the 40k background is well and truly on its way to imploding. Not unexpected, no?


----------



## whiplash308

Ehhh. Though I do see where the Chosen being next in line for Lords comes in, there is still plenty of things that kill off two wound models. Let's remember that a Paladin's high point cost is being a grey knight, in terminator armor, with force weapons, at initiative 7 (or whatever it is), with a decent amount of attacks and weapon skill. Ok sure, Chosen can be these badass power/terminator armor marines, but we can't give them a base cost of a huge point value. Their points will be made up in upgrades we give the squad. Make them around 26-30, and give them optional upgrades, and then Chosen will be epic. Also, as I've seen earlier in this thread, GW has been going the way of "dual-kitting" (i.e. Doomsday Ark/Ghost Ark, Deathmarks/Immortals, Ghorgon/that other beastmen thing), so a Possessed/Chosen kit would be quite interesting (spoken by someone earlier). 

All we can do is hope and wait.


----------



## Khargoth

whiplash308 said:


> Slaanesh on the other hand is, as stated above, all about temptation. However I don't think that "when the dice roll better, our units get better" would be what anybody would want. We all hate Possessed because they're overpriced and not reliable because they need a good dice roll on their Daemonkin table. Yeah I thought that was pretty cool, but a random D6 roll isn't the way I want things. Chaos Dreadnoughts and Chaos Spawn; same thing. We all hate random dice rolls to determine what happens to them. Again I will reference 3.5 in its Book of Slaanesh awesomeness. I'd much rather not have an entire army that's based around attacks that need *good* dice rolls in order for them to be effective. Roll 20 close combat attacks, only hit 6, and all of a sudden your squad of Slaaneshi boys takes a shit on the floor?


I was thinking more along the lines of "These guys start off with a mediocre statline, but if they wipe out a unit, prepare for crazy bonuses". They aren't really unreliable, but require very effective use.


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

I'd love to see chosen and lords (etc...) get some kind of rule like;

Chosen of the gods: The model gets to reroll a single D6 per game. *insert fluff reason here*

Would just be a cool way to further distinguish them from regular marines.


----------



## Warlock in Training

I think Chosen should be more like Wolf Guard is for SWs. Highly customisable, better WS, and Infiltrate is enough to make them fluffy and usefule. Price them the same as is and the more gear you kit them out with the better they are. Also all Champs for the CSM sqauds should be Chosen with Chosen Gear. Termies are Chosen in TA with the price added in. Hell like Wolf Guard Chosen should be able to mix Termie Chosen with PA Chosen. Wolf Gaurd rules would fit soooo nicely for Chosen.Take Abby and Chosen are Troop choices.

Then ofcourse Dreads need to be not CRAZED with better WS to be competitive. 
Icons that grant bonuses are usless, just stick with PMs for Nurgle CSMs, ect, ect. 
Land Raider Variants.
Possessed should pay reasonable points... reasonable.... for the Gift you want.
Mark of Tzeentch and Daemons should not have to take a Perils Test.
Spawn? Goodbye.
Finally Lords should have EW by default, its in all the fluff, and given cheaper DWs to make them a decent HQ choice alongside DPs. Sorcerors should be 10 points cheaper with better Psypowers to make them a decent choice.

That alone would make the book better than the crappy Renegade one without starting from scratch. All they need to add is special wargear, rules, and FOC changes for the specific Legions to make the book feel more Legions like.


----------



## mcmuffin

I disagree, spawn should be in the codex. however, they should be toughness 6 with 6 wounds, no armour save with fnp. for 40 pts, just a tarpit unit to tie up the likes of long fangs, and they should not concede a kill point. And not use up a slot. World eaters should allow berzerkers to be scoring units, otherwise they should be like death company, unable to score.


----------



## Adramalech

So, any new developments on the CSM codex? or is it still too early to know anything?

Do we even know for sure that it's coming?

Shameless wishlisting:
I hope they can do for CSM what they did for dark eldar. <3 Having an amazing codex with an amazing model range almost completely released within the span of a couple years would be nice.


----------



## Fallen

Adramalech said:


> So, any new developments on the CSM codex? or is it still too early to know anything?
> 
> Do we even know for sure that it's coming?
> 
> no new developments; and we know its coming..."when" is now the new question to find the answer to. Most of us think that it will be released sometime before summer 2012, or before xmas 2012 at the latest.
> 
> Shameless wishlisting:
> I hope they can do for CSM what they did for dark eldar. <3 Having an amazing codex with an amazing model range almost completely released within the span of a couple years would be nice.


we have an amazing model range IMO; the only think that they could do to make it better IMO is to re-sculpt most/all of the special characters and the cult troops. after that then there isnt really anything that needs an overhaul (besides a plastic havocs, raptors, and oblit box) of drastic proportions.


----------



## Warlock in Training

mcmuffin said:


> I disagree, spawn should be in the codex. however, they should be toughness 6 with 6 wounds, no armour save with fnp. for 40 pts, just a tarpit unit to tie up the likes of long fangs, and they should not concede a kill point. And not use up a slot. World eaters should allow berzerkers to be scoring units, otherwise they should be like death company, unable to score.


I guess if ya totally revamp the rules for spawn and Point Cost then they could be useful like that. I really doubt GW will give them any love. Also Zerks are scoring as it is. I think the Cult Troops are fine as is. TS would be more useful, if as I said above MoT grants auto pass on Psy Test with better Psy powers. Slannesh Troops be better if they were simply 20 points with Sonic Weapons.


----------



## mcmuffin

But what i mean is that berzerkers should be unable to score unless you are playing a fully khornate army. Same with Noise marines, Rubric Marines and Plague marines. They should all be elites unless your force is lead by a Lord or DP with the same mark. I also think you should be unable to have 2 lords or DP's with opposite Marks (khorne-Slaanesh, Nurgle-Tzeentch), due to daemonic rivalries or whatever.


----------



## Warlock in Training

mcmuffin said:


> But what i mean is that berzerkers should be unable to score unless you are playing a fully khornate army. Same with Noise marines, Rubric Marines and Plague marines. They should all be elites unless your force is lead by a Lord or DP with the same mark. I also think you should be unable to have 2 lords or DP's with opposite Marks (khorne-Slaanesh, Nurgle-Tzeentch), due to daemonic rivalries or whatever.


Ahhhh.. your refering the glory days of C:CSM 3.5. Yes those were good days, then came 4th ed. I be very happy if they brought back 3.5. Back when IWs had Bassies, Cultist were used for Alpha, and when CSM Lords were as awsome as DPs and DPs were better. Back when Raptors were useful, Lesser Daemons and GDs were still awsome and unique, and Termies and Chosen had abilities that made them awsome. GONE are the days!!!!!


----------



## Mole120

Went to GW today and brought an abbadon and now they are being remodlled. He did say that I would be happy and excited when June comes though?


----------



## SilverTabby

Details-wise, GW store staff will be going on the same rumours we are. I know this for a fact.

They know 40k is coming next June, they won't know what's in it, or which books are released at the same time.


----------



## Khargoth

Still wagering that the 6E box will be Chaos vs Eldar


----------



## turel2

Please, please give the Emperors Children some love.


----------



## Achaylus72

Khargoth said:


> Still wagering that the 6E box will be Chaos vs Eldar


Can't happen, even though rumours suggest that Eldar will be like the Tau be officially elevated to allies of the imperium and they will become Space Marine Allies and officially the good guys of the 40K universe, however as history shows that at least one of the forces in any Starter Box Set will be Space Marines, this has never wavered.

The rumour i am hearing is that the next Starter Box Set will be Chaos Space Marines vs Dark Angels, this will be the time that we get a new Chaos Space Marine plastic Chaos Dreadnought.


----------



## Warlock in Training

The way the Fluff, Vid Games, Books, and Dexes are written the Eldar will be a loose ally at best. Tau have always been written as a treaty with the Imperium and try to ally with anything that breaths for the Greater Good.


----------



## paolodistruggiuova

everyone that is not strictly ''evil'' inside (ie nids, chaos and to a lesser extent necrons) want to ally with the imperium, they are the biggest empire in the galaxy so that's pretty obvious, they'll still pursue their own objectives and sometimes turn on their allies but races like taus or eldars in the current fluff just cannot sustain open war against the Imperium so they'll be allies, it's not that strange, it happens on Earth since 2000 b.C., it'll happen in the future in space


----------



## hungryugolino

If that's true, then 40k really is in a downward spiral of bad writing and lack of understanding of the spirit of the setting.


----------



## Warlock in Training

I think Imperium willing to ally with Xenos to win is a Realistic and superb Idea with many new options to explore. This whole "Its a Alien and even tho they want to help us win a battle that we cant possibly hope to win by ourselves were going to go out of our way to kill them too" is really old. Same for Eldar who have the same line of "Your too stupid too understand human so well battle you anyway than try to explain" is dumb too. Its easier to team up temporarly and then go at eachothers throats. Like BAs famous team up with Necrons.... which made no sense at the time until the new Dex came out.


----------



## RedThirstWill Destroy

Like many have said before, i believe that withought doubt one of the new box sets armies will inevitably by Space marines, it's just how it has always been.

EDIT: I would also think it very likely that the Spacemarine Chapter used would be one that has not previously been boxed, so as i can remember we've had Blood angels, Ultramarines and was it Dark Angels, forgive me if i'm wrong i'm not too sure on 3rd or 4th Edition.

I think there is a stong possibility of it being Space wolves this time round


----------



## mcmuffin

Doubt it will be SW, they are too "crazy-ass mofo" and complicated fluff-wise that little timmy will be confused and won't want to buy. Chaos is easy: Evil dudes. Black Templars are easy: Space crusaders. Ulramarines are the epitome of simple. I just cant see space wolves being GW's posterboy. If they did end up GW's posterboy, i would be disappointed, i like that they are not everyone's favourite.


----------



## whiplash308

I certainly don't see space vikings being poster boys for GW's newest edition of Warhammer 40k. But I do have to agree with a previous post. I have indeed seen lots of speculation that it will be Eldar and Chaos, which I would love to see and buy 8 times over.


----------



## MaidenManiac

Lets sum up things a bit shall we?

Mad cred to the Dude for this compilation!
Cred to Natfka for finding it.



> Chaos Legion Rumors: Compilation
> 
> This morning we are looking at the current rumors for what is expected to be the biggest releases of 2012, Chaos Legions. If Chaos Legions hit the shelves this year, I think a good majority of long time 40k players will consider it a good a year. Add to that Tau, possibly Black Templar, a 6th edition summer release and wow. Did I mention there are even rumors of Eldar being released towards the end of the year.
> 
> 
> 
> Chaos Legions will be my next codex. What legion will I play? Who knows. Night Lords is still my old favorite, but with new fluff, and a brand new look at the codex, I may fall for any of them.
> 
> Please remember that these are rumors, and to take with the standard application of salt.
> 
> This compilation was put together by the Dude
> General information:
> ghost21 reports that the plan is for 3 Chaos books. Legions, Renegades and Daemons
> 
> Daemons are already covered, so the next book will cover the Chaos Legions, with a future Renegades codex incorporating all manner of traitor humans, mutants and Marines-gone-bad.
> 
> Jared Van Kell from Liberium Online supports this split of Codices.
> 
> ghost21 thinks this Legions book will be 1st or 2nd book after 6th edition, which is being released July 2012, putting the release around October-November 2012
> 
> via Harry
> I do think CSM are the first sixth edition book but not sure if they come just before or just after 6th edition.
> 
> (note he does not mention what type of CSM will be covered in this book)
> 
> theDarkGeneral contradicts this, saying he has heard of 3 separate Legions books with an even split of Legions in each. He claims 2 are planned for release in 2012 and the third for early 2013. He further claims a “Lost and the Damned” style book and a “largely Daemon-based” campaign book are in the works for after that.
> 
> via theDarkGeneral
> *World Eaters, Word Bearers and Nightlords
> 
> *Deathguard, Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children
> 
> *Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion and Black Legion
> 
> theDarkGeneral more recently began supporting the Legions / Renegades split, agreeing that the current CSM Dex will be tweaked in White Dward and called Chaos Renegades.
> 
> Both ghost21 and Jared Van Kell say Mat Ward is rumoured to be writing the codex. (seriously guys, get over it )
> 
> Reds8n contradicts this, saying Ward is tied up with other projects (likely LotR or Hobbit related) and that Phil Kelly will be writing this book.
> 
> Minor Gods will supposedly make an appearance and all Legions will be included
> 
> The minor Gods are named, and will act in a similar way to marks, but have no Daemons.
> 
> Background:
> Ghost21 tells us the background has been expanded and improved so that Legions and their worship of the Gods is far less one-dimensional.
> 
> theDarkGeneral says the background will include info on “alliances, distrust and full fledged war within the 9 Traitor Legions” with Black Legion referred to as "arrogant"
> 
> Rules:
> Each Legion will have something unique to them, but will have unit restrictions to offset their inherent bonuses.
> 
> Ghost21 further clarifies by saying World Eaters may be restricted to 1 Havoc squad, but could potentially take more by “trading in” something else.
> 
> 
> via theDarkGeneral
> it won't change according to your Legion (HQs) as in swapping more Heavies for less Fast, but your access to units in those categories opens up, becomes limited, or closes off accordingly. Easy example I was given, is taking Khorne Daemon Prince means no Scouts...
> 
> And goes on to say the following about the different Legions:
> 
> *Nightlords: I don't ask much about them, though a lil' i have for my buddy Paul has around 25,000+ points of them...Hit & Run and Stealth for universal special rules, but possible counter attack (for elite unit) as well as jump pack troops.
> 
> *Word Bearers: Apparently getting a lil' extra attention, and besides Dark Apostles, new models for "daemonancers", which just might be unit champs/sgt upgrades. I'm not sure. BUT, their summoning of Daemons from the Warp apparently allows re-rolls on the scatter dice, as well as new mishap chart!
> 
> *Deathguard: Feel no pain and blight grenades for their Cult Terminators, new nasty flamers upgrades.
> 
> *Thousand Sons: AP3 bolters will be MUCH more useful under 6th Edition, and a couple new Psychic abilities, one of which (supposedly) can remove an entire enemy squad from the table on a failed stat test!
> 
> *Iron Warriors: Access to Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield termies, thunderfire cannon off-shoot, Havocs w/Tank Hunters and relentless for some squad...
> 
> *Emperor's Children: Lash is finally changed to be more in line with Daemon version. More heavy weapons upgrade count for larger units. Better Bikes? Not sure what that means...
> 
> *Alpha Legion: Lots of infiltrating abilities, outflanking, and even temporary control of enemy squads/vehicles...basically sneaky bastards!
> 
> *Black Legion: HQs allow broader access to all unit types, but lack of better universal special rules.
> 
> *Word Bearers: Will be able to take Marked units but with some restrictions. Apparently with all the current Black Library Books out on them (I'm enjoying their reads!), and mention of the Sanctified in Siege of Vraks, the ability to take Marked units has been brought up. Not sure how they'll do this, if it'll be a 1 unit for 1 unit.
> 
> *Alpha Legion: Hardest to get info on, but "might" be able to force a re-roll on the type of scenario?! This honestly sounds more like a Special Character ability to me...but we'll see...
> 
> *Iron Warriors: Their Cult Terminators will have access to Thunder Hammer & Storm Shields, as well as Iron-Fire Cannon (thunder fire). Basic Chaos Marine squads "may" be able to take an additional heavy weapons team once past 10 models...
> 
> Death Guard gain a new ability (maybe Chosen squads only ?) that allows their poisoned attacks to ignore Armor Saves on a roll of a '6', much similar to Rending without the extra Armor Pen.
> 
> Iron Warriors become "siege specialists" which equivalents to Tank Hunters and reducing cover saves on enemy units!
> 
> Word Bearers are "zealots" and benefit from Chaplains as well as Turn 1 Daemon Summoning. New Daemonancers models are suppose to be SICK looking, but I believe just unit champ upgrades.
> 
> Emperor's Children have a haughtiness to them, but prideful, which may give them counter charge (on top of their already higher Initiative). More heavy weapons upgrades per squad, and their Chosen will be...scary fast!
> 
> Alpha Legion apparently have the greatest access to Imperial style vehicles, as well as more of an unlimited Force Org slot selections, next to the Black Legion. Much of their Army will be able to upgrade to "Infiltrators".
> 
> Black Legion, aka Sons of Horus, aka Luna Wolves are tentatively stubborn, and have greatest selection amongst the units/vehicles. HOWEVER, they're not fully trusted, not sure how this works out in game terms.
> 
> World Eaters truly become the combat monsters they're story lined to be. Marked Dreads, and Daemon Engines will be a prime staple in most Armies...
> 
> ghost21 tells us Chaos units have built in negatives depending on the God. It is unclear if these are just Cult Troops, or all Marked units
> 
> Nurgle units have a rule called "Stoic" meaning they can’t perform Sweeping Advances and will possibly get something akin to True Grit.
> 
> Khorne has to “engage in some kind of combat every turn” (not sure what this means ie does shooting count?) or roll on a D6 table and suffer some random penalty
> 
> Tzeentch require a “command figure” (likely Sorcerer) or will act based on a random D6 roll
> 
> Slaanesh are described only as having “very harsh results”
> 
> Wargear
> theDarkGeneral says Nurgle Flamers can be made poisoned 3+ or even 2+ (possibly through a special character).
> 
> He also thinks Plague Knives will be poisoned 4+ with 6s ignoring Armour Saves. Although he goes on to say it’s likely only unit champions and Chosen/Possessed that get them.
> 
> ghost21 claims Legions will have access to Artificer Armour but by a different name
> 
> theDarkGeneral says the majority of CSM units will retain Bolter, Bolt Pistol & Close Combat Weapon.
> 
> theDarkGeneral claims Daemonic Mounts will be useful, with the Undivided version "worth while" for non-Marked Legions. He also implied that Tzeentchian ones will be fast, saying “Thousand Sons will be VERY pleased with their new found speed.”
> 
> HQ
> Special Characters:
> ghost21 tells us characters will supposedly be very powerful, including the “Red Angel” from this artwork
> 
> Black Library author, Aaron Dembski-Bowden has revealed on B&C that considering discussions amongst Black Library authoirs and the GW IP people, he would be surprised at the Red Angel making an appearance.
> 
> Although ghost21 goes on to say he hasn’t seen a named Warsmith character, only a Dark Mechanicus one. Jared Van Kell from Liberium Online contradicts this saying Honsou will make an appearance.
> 
> Jared Van Kell says Kharn the Betrayer will become more survivable (likely due to Eternal Warrior and a 4+ Invulnerable save) but goes on to say “his bloodshed knows no bounds”
> 
> theDarkGeneral claims we will see the return of Droomrider, Doombreed, and Cypher as well as another 5 new characters. This does not preclude any or all existing special characters being included.
> 
> theDarkGeneral also tells us there will be a Slaaneshi Dreadnaught special character. ghost21 also confirms a Dreadnaught Special Character.
> 
> theDarkGeneral reports that Ahriman will be better due to new Chaos Psychic powers as well as "some kind of guaranteed psychic ability that can't be stopped via Psychic Hoods, etc"
> 
> ghost21 tells us Sorcerers will get something similar to a Psychic Hood, but called something else
> 
> ghost21 confirmed what TheDarkGeneral said about Word Bearers getting Chaplains / Dark Apostles
> 
> Techmarines will "kind of" be available according to ghost21
> 
> Elites
> Jared Van Kell says Cult Terminators are likely to return under the proviso that they will only appear in dedicated cult lists.
> 
> theDarkGeneral tells us Chaos Dreadnaughts will no longer act randomly, and are able to take marks, but will not be able to be Venerable.
> 
> theDarkGeneral claims Possessed will be improved and supposedly have upgrades either already included or that you can pay for.
> 
> theDarkGeneral claims that Chosen will get more upgrade options, but that they willll get costly quickly depending on the Legion and wargear you select. Wargear options for them supposedly include Jump Packs, Terminator Armour, all types of Combi-Weapons, Twin Lightning Claws and more.
> 
> There is a chance that certain HQ choices can take a Chosen squad as a retinue.
> 
> ghost21 tells us there will be a "gladiator themed" World Eater unit. Jared Van Kell from Liberium Online says these are Chrono-gladiators who must keep killing in order to stop a timer in their heads from killing them.
> 
> ghost21 also says Emperor's Children will have access to a unit described as "soul shieldsman" which is possibly an upgrade for Veterans.
> 
> theDarkGeneral mentions a new unit called Brazen Knights consisting of "Skull Champions" (possibly super Khornate CSM Champions) riding Juggernauts. He has more recently suggested that this could in fact be an Apocalypse formation to be released around the same time.
> 
> Troops
> theDarkGeneral implies there will be some kind of “Scout unit” which will not be available to World Eaters.
> 
> God-specific Daemons will likely be included, but ghost21 is only sure of the lesser varieties (Plaguebearers, Bloodletters, Daemonettes & Horrors) and not the greater ones
> 
> theDarkGeneral claims Daemons will remain as they are in the Daemons Codex, but with slight points adjustments to reflect the ability to summon them and certain 6th edition changes.
> 
> theDarkGeneral says Thousand Sons (Rubrik Marines) will not get any weapon options, but the new psychic powers can certainly fill that role.
> 
> Fast Attack
> theDarkGeneral claims “Assault Berzerkers” with jump packs will be available as Fast Attack choices.
> 
> ghost21 tells us Doomrider will be a unit upgrade (presumably for Bike squads)
> 
> ghost21 also adds that Nurgle Bikes are in, but their "Stoic" rule may make them less effective in his opinion.
> 
> ghost21 hinted that Attack Bikes or something similar may be included
> 
> ghost21 claims there may be something "sort of" like a Landspeeder available
> 
> Heavy Support
> theDarkGeneral tells us Slaughterfiends from Apoc will be available, as well as versions for other Legions and Marks.
> 
> theDarkGeneral reports Obliterators maximum unit size is increased to 4
> 
> theDarkGeneral says most types of Daemon Engines can be taken as 3 per FOC slot
> 
> theDarkGeneral claims Legions will get a new Landraider pattern with a higher transport capacity (possibly 15) and is described as a "warped version of one of the Imperial versions”
> 
> It is also rumoured that Land Raiders will get a version of Power of the Machine Spirit
> 
> Marked Legions are rumoured to get Havocs
> 
> theDarkGeneral has also hinted at the possibility of a new Monstrous Creature that is not a Greater Daemon but can have Marks of the Gods. Not all Legions can take one. For example Night Lords and the Alpha Legion are supposedly unable to take one. No further info is available as yet.
> 
> ghost21 claims the Legions may have access to a Daemonic weapon possibly comparable to the Thunderfire Cannon
> 
> Dedicated Transports
> No news as yet
> 
> Miniatures:
> Plastic Dreadnaught rumoured by both ghost21, Jared Van Kell from Liberium Online and theDarkGeneral. TheDarkGeneral claims it will include multiple Dreadnought close combat weapons types, such as the Chainfist, Thunder Hammer, Power Scourge, etc.
> 
> Plastic Plague Bearers rumoured to appear in the 6th edition started
> 
> Plastic Plaguemarines rumoured by ghost21
> 
> via 75hastings69
> I can add to this that the new plastic Raptors are very nice
> 
> Also supported by Jared Van Kell who also claims they may come a little later.
> 
> theDarkGeneral claims there will be some way of converting Legion-specific models using a sprue of heads and shoulder pads which will fit all Power Armour kits. These would be Direct Only much like the Deff Rolla sprue for the Ork Battlewagon.
> 
> via Harry
> What I heard was a box with the bits to make different legions.
> 
> But I thought this was something to do with Chaos Space Marines and the kit including various heads, spiky bits and icons to make different flavours of Chaos Marines.
> 
> 
> Abaddon – ghost21 claims this miniature is almost identical to the existing one, but “bulkier and taller” Liberium Online's Jared Van Kell supports this.
> 
> Kharn the Betrayer– Rumoured new miniature is described by Jared Van Kell as “bulkier and still ferocious in motion”
> 
> ”Little” Horus Axiamand - ghost21 reports seeing a miniature for this guy, and implies it is very good
> 
> There’s some chatter about a boxed set featuring a named character from every legion. Jared Van Kell from Liberium Online has implied this will be Horus Axiamand, Honsou, an unknown Raptor Lord (Night Lords?), Kharn the Betrayer, Ahriman, Typhus, and Lucius the Eternal. This could be where conflicting reports of the inclusion of some characters has come from.
> 
> ghost21 also claims to have spotted a miniature for a Dark Mechanicus character. He described it as a very creepy sculpt based on a john Blanche piece
> 
> Jared Van Kell from Liberium Online has said this is a side project.


Rock on folks


----------



## Warlock in Training

Thats alot of Maybes! Seems to cover everything in C:SM, C, and C:CSM. Thats a big book. Doubt it.


----------



## whiplash308

Wow, it was quite the joy reading that. Though some of it does seem like false aspirations in one way or another, there is a lot that I definitely do see. Word Bearers getting Dark Apostles again? I'd say so.


----------



## turel2

So when will the 6th edition be released?


----------



## bitsandkits

turel2 said:


> So when will the 6th edition be released?


june/july this year


----------



## turel2

bitsandkits said:


> june/july this year


Thank You for the reply Bits


----------



## whiplash308

I certainly do like seeing something about plastic Raptors at least. Though for some reason, I don't think it'll be when Chaos comes out. The Failcast sculpts came out not long ago.


----------



## Achaylus72

If half of the rumours come true than i am one very happy chappy.

Chaos Rules


----------



## Daddy_Nurgle

GreatUncleanOne said:


> Bet nurgle gets screwed over!
> 
> I really hope the different lists are feasible and divergent enough without being forced to take a named char.
> 
> I don't hold much hope though. GW are almost forcing you to take a named char if you want a themed army.
> 
> I have a nurgle daemon army and refuse to use either of the named chars. And I still win! Take that GW
> 
> I won't be too pleased if ward does the codex but will wait till its done before passing judgement. I mean it can't possibly be worse than the current chaos dex. Can it?


personally i dont think that nurgle will be screwed. with a legions codex they will definately have death guard, and there will be plenty of nurgle to go around with tha.

i am also a fellow deamons player and would like to say well done with your army, i always like it when someone sticks it to GW

one last thing... DEATH TO WARD


----------



## Achaylus72

So let me understand the situation here regarding Chaos.

1, we get a whole new Codex: Chaos Space Marines, this is a generic Codex, something akin to Codex: Space Marines yippee vanilla Chaos Space Marines.

2, we then get 3 x Codexes. These three new codexes will concentrate on the 9 Chaos Legions of Alpha Legion, Death Guard, Nightlords, Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Word Bearers, Thousand Sons, Emperors Children and Luna Wolves.

and finally

3, we then get Codex: Chaos Renegades.

Whew, that is a lot.


----------



## Eleven

Achaylus72 said:


> So let me understand the situation here regarding Chaos.
> 
> 1, we get a whole new Codex: Chaos Space Marines, this is a generic Codex, something akin to Codex: Space Marines yippee vanilla Chaos Space Marines.
> 
> 2, we then get 3 x Codexes. These three new codexes will concentrate on the 9 Chaos Legions of Alpha Legion, Death Guard, Nightlords, Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Word Bearers, Thousand Sons, Emperors Children and Luna Wolves.
> 
> and finally
> 
> 3, we then get Codex: Chaos Renegades.
> 
> Whew, that is a lot.


i'm not sure what the current rumors are, but I assure you that 5 chaos codices is not in the books.

I wish this was the case, but it would be way overboard. I'll honestly be kinda surprised if we end up getting that chaos renegades book at all, though I would dig it if it had chaos guard in it.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

I think rumors have it at 3: Chaos Space Marine Legions, Chaos Daemons and Lost and the Damned with Renegade Chapters


----------



## mcmuffin

Daddy_Nurgle said:


> DEATH TO WARD


Will this ever stop? I want a good, competitive Chaos book with a multitude of options. What codex designed by Mat Ward lacks these two features? None, ergo, lets stop Ward hating, please. Its old news, and just comes across as juvenile.


----------



## bitsandkits

Im hoping for Chaos donkeys : the lost and the carrot munchers


----------



## yanlou

While i like the sound of those rumors i doubt most will be 100% true, what i think is most likely is at least one named Charactor or Legion specific HQ choice, ie Dark Apostles. Cult termis, marked dreads, possibly the inclusion of Contemptor Pattern dreads (im saying this because of the new rules in IA:A 2nd ed), new landraider and possible variants, legion rules, access to specific units and upgrades based on marks and legions, daemon engines, daemons and new plastic kits for certain models ie deathguard, tweaking of rules for units that didnt quite fit before, ie Bikes, raptors, chosen, possessed.

I do think Cult troops will remain in the Troops slot, but of course be restricted based on Legions and Marks, this would work as it allowes enough variety in the troops choice section and keeps cult termiess/chosen as the elites of there chosen gods. I do like the sound of legion/makr specific elite choices tho, like the Khornate one.

Overall is all exciting to keep hearing new rumors about Chaos Space Marines, i cant wait for the release when ever that will be. (hopefully released before 6th)


----------



## Marneus Calgar

A lot of this sounds like they are returning to a 3.5ed style dex. Apart from the upgrades on Tzeentch and the like, it just sounds like they're stepping back a bit.

Of course if it's true it will be well taken by most people. 

I was told by a GW Manager that it was likely that Chaos would be getting a new codex, in what form he didn't know. But he did say they were almost certain a new codex. 

I would definitely like to see a new codex, the current one is really beginning to show it's age and lack of variation on Tourney armies (come on, who doesn't take dual lash?). 

Daemons definitely need an update, from what I hear they are one of the worst armies in 40k to play. Or, when you do play you follow the same general archetype.


----------



## TheSpore

Well im not sure what the release scedule is gonna be like this year, but one thing is certain Vamps are gettin an update in July... Or I might be worng but the ate listed is 07/01/2012, maybe you brits list the day first and then the month on your dates but over here we list the month first then the day, unless its military format in that case its year month and day. Whatever

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19800015a


----------



## Creon

January 7th, 2012. They date European, which is reverse of US standards. Day/Month/Year.


----------



## Warlock in Training

Marneus Calgar said:


> A lot of this sounds like they are returning to a 3.5ed style dex. Apart from the upgrades on Tzeentch and the like, it just sounds like they're stepping back a bit.
> 
> Of course if it's true it will be well taken by most people.


Exactly. It seems 3.5 was so far ahead its time its ready to make its return for 6th edition.:laugh:


----------



## Khargoth

My question is this: What is going to counter-balance all this awesome we are rumoured to be receiving?


----------



## Marneus Calgar

mcmuffin said:


> Will this ever stop? I want a good, competitive Chaos book with a multitude of options. What codex designed by Mat Ward lacks these two features? None, ergo, lets stop Ward hating, please. Its old news, and just comes across as juvenile.


Hear Hear.

Fluff needs to change just as much as the Rules if I'm honest. Let's face it, according to some of the fluff Necrons were an unbeatable race etc. On the board, they're really not.

His codexes are competitive, just look at his codexes vs a codex like 'Nids. Point for the most is proved.


----------



## slaaneshy

I guess the problem is that ward needs to write all the codexs to make them all equal, my experience is a ward v non ward codex usually favours the ward codex. So I'm hoping for a ward!


----------



## TheSpore

Creon said:


> January 7th, 2012. They date European, which is reverse of US standards. Day/Month/Year.


Thats what I was thinking it seemed odd, U Brits are so bass ackwrds


----------



## mcmuffin

slaaneshy said:


> I guess the problem is that ward needs to write all the codexs to make them all equal, my experience is a ward v non ward codex usually favours the ward codex. So I'm hoping for a ward!


So blood angels and GK are better than DE, SW and IG? Hurp


----------



## Warlock in Training

mcmuffin said:


> So blood angels and GK are better than DE, SW and IG? Hurp


Double Hurp!


----------



## Malgron

In Chaos Legions, Ward claims that Mortarion carves Nurgles name in Draigos heart leaving us all to wonder WTF is actually going on 

To be honest I'm just hoping that the new codex allows me to combine Plaguebearers (which I love), with Death Guard, (which I also love)


----------



## Achaylus72

The one thing i am absolutely positve on and that is i am utterly confused!:laugh:


----------



## SilverTabby

TheSpore said:


> Thats what I was thinking it seemed odd, U Brits are so bass ackwrds


Whats so wrong with smallest to largest? Anyone would think it was - wait - the _logical_ way to do it :wink:

You Yanks only changed it so it would be different to ours, not because it's better


----------



## bitsandkits

TheSpore said:


> Thats what I was thinking it seemed odd, U Brits are so bass ackwrds


actually almost all the world uses "little Endian" format for dates apart from US and some parts of Canada, as it stems from legal and religious format of written dates "the 8th day of January in the year of our lord 2012"


----------



## LukeValantine

Yah got to say as a fairly logical person I always wrote my dates day month year even though my province does it the American way. Thank god I am not the only one that rights my dates that way.


----------



## TheSpore

eh I was just crackin a joke, but it did confuse me a lil, then again I had to adjust to the military style is the US whcih is written this way 2012 01 07. I guess If I ever have to move to the UK getting use to the dating format will be the least of my worries, its weird as I've been a to Scottland(excuse if I spelled that wrong) and though most everyone speaks English I still had a lil trouble understanding what some people would say.


----------



## Marneus Calgar

TheSpore said:


> eh I was just crackin a joke, but it did confuse me a lil, then again I had to adjust to the military style is the US whcih is written this way 2012 01 07. I guess If I ever have to move to the UK getting use to the dating format will be the least of my worries, its weird as I've been a to Scottland(excuse if I spelled that wrong) and though most everyone speaks English I still had a lil trouble understanding what some people would say.


If you were to think about it Mathematically, it is also logical to put 2012 01 07, purely because you don't say, a number greater than a thousand backwards do you?


----------



## hungryugolino

The good thing about Ward writing Chaos Legions is that he can't destroy the fluff any more than it's already been butchered, his style actually sort of fits the over the top, literally reality-warping nature of Chaos, and any stupidity on his part can be explained away as "it's Chaos lol".

Pity about the style though. And expect alliances between Chaos and Puritans or something equally stupid.


----------



## yanlou

you know it has been pointed out on a few occations that Ward isnt writing the codex, but at the end of the day i dont care who writes it as long as its better then what we've currently got.


----------



## normtheunsavoury

yanlou said:


> i dont care who writes it as long as its better then what we've currently got.


No problem there, I could shit a better codex than the one we have right now!


----------



## LukeValantine

The next codex will be an improvment by the simple logic that simply changing the points costs would be enough to get me reintrested in the codex, everything else is just gravy.


----------



## Khargoth

Marneus Calgar said:


> If you were to think about it Mathematically, it is also logical to put 2012 01 07, purely because you don't say, a number greater than a thousand backwards do you?


Also means you can very precisely date something in a nice readable format.
2012.01.07.11:24 is somewhat Imperial too.


----------



## Warlock in Training

You know what if they charged CSMs as 5 pts cheaper, Possessed 15 pts cheaper, Raptors 10 points cheaper, Termies 25 points cheaper, LDs 5 points cheaper, and Bikes 25 points cheaper we be taking those units all day long saying YEAHHHHHH!!!! My Termies are way better compared to your TH/SS ones. Why? Cause I have 30 to your 5!!! CHAOS!!!!

Lowering points is unrealistic, they really need to overhaul both points and rules.


----------



## whiplash308

Not only do they need point and rule overhauls, but remakes for many things. Point costs could be lowered just a tad bit on things like Possessed and Raptors though. If they're going to stay the same point value, then the special things in the Chaos army that Loyalist armies don't have should at least be revamped in a way that would make them effective, not "HAI R4NDUM DIZ ROLZ".


----------



## Firewolf

>> "All" Im hopeing for is a better dex than the pile of shite thats out just now. Make the Legions feel like Legions, not just a bunch of disgruntled Marines. Looking over the suppossed new minis list/hopes, folks are saying "yeah, new minis, just what we need, well done GW", then GW will release the characters in finecast(no, im not trendy and down, so i dont call them failcast"), and all the lovers will become haters.


----------



## hungryugolino

Oh god no, they would be Finecast, wouldn't they.


----------



## bobahoff

What's wrong with fine cast?


----------



## Achaylus72

hungryugolino said:


> Oh god no, they would be Finecast, wouldn't they.


 
What i have heard and read that many of those units at the mo' that were Metal will become Finecast, until the release of 6th Edition and when the new Chaos Codexes come out.

When 6th Edition comes out in June/July Chaos will get a whole new range of resculpted models and at this point my info says they will come out in plastic.


----------



## mcmuffin

Well, theDarkGeneral had this to say today



> Oh, YES, plastic Plaguebearers are on the horizon, though I couldn't actually give you a date release, as I rarely ask those kinds of questions.
> 
> Chaos Daemons won't be far off, as it seems GW may indeed do a double release with them, coinciding with their Fantasy counter part, but probably not 'til early next year. (if even that early)
> 
> Story line wise, they're finally expanding forward, as well as filling in the gaps! The interactions with fellow Chaos Legions, and the massive distrust and often full fledged battles is going to be flushed out. We'll all know FOR SURE, who's whom!
> 
> They're leaning against Forge World inclusions, like the Hell Blade, Contemptor Dreadnought, Bloodslaughterers, Plague Drones, etc. BUT, we'll still get some better, faster vehicles similar to Speeders (if not actual Speeders). The newish Land Radier that comes possessed and with a higher infantry capacity will be a huge boon, along with the Daemon Engines that can be taken 2 or 3 for one Heavy/Fast/Elite slot.
> 
> Spawn in larger packs, and with the ability to be Marked! (this i'm not sure on, sounds a lil' too good)
> 
> Now, something else i've been told, is that someone earlier mentioned jetbikes I believe, and one of my buddies brought that up and linked it to Emperor's Children along with Doom Rider!


Spawn packs sound nice, they would make a fantastic tarpit, and i love the idea of a Daemon engine based army.


----------



## Warlock in Training

Slaanesh on JETBIKES! ZOOOOOOM... rape... ZOOOOOOM....


----------



## mcmuffin

haha DoomRIDER has a new meaning now . . . .


----------



## whiplash308

The return of Doomrider? I've only heard of his legacy. I wasn't into 40k in the good old days of Chaos. Spawn packs wouldn't be bad actually, I think. Plastic plaguebearers are almost necessary. I certainly won't ever use them as summoned daemons in my Chaos army, even if our supposed new codex will even have generic lesser daemons to pick from. Having more daemon engines to pick from would be pretty cool I'd have to say. Possible Defiler/Soul Grinder/whatever else hybrid kit? GW has been on a multi-kit streak.

Wait, BETTER LAND RAIDERS? Excitement.


----------



## SilverTabby

Space marines did have jetbikes once...


----------



## LukeValantine

Good point I say CSM get the old heresy jetbikes in exchange for not being able to grasp new fangled tech. Mind you they probably would be prohibitively expensive in game, but still nice for EC armies.


----------



## slaaneshy

Lets hope they also remember how to use drop pods!


----------



## whiplash308

Say it with me. We need dreadclaws. We need dreadclaws. We need dreadclaws.

Failing that, at least drop pod equivalent. Doesn't the Chaos codex currently say that there's a warband that specializes in drop pod assaults? Well where are they?


----------



## hungryugolino

You can use counts-as rhinos. :grin:


----------



## Creon

Don't you know Chaos Corrupts Drop Pods. They break the first time you use them. It's very sad. 

Chaos needs the flexibility of new codexes, true. It would be fun.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

This not going to happen till 2013?


----------



## LukeValantine

Most evidence points to late this year.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Ooh great.


----------



## mcmuffin

So, apparently chaos is the next book to be done




Darnok said:


> ... starts singing in February.
> 
> I've been told the following:
> 
> 
> no BT in the near future
> DA are "in progress"
> Eldar and Tau are being worked on, with Eldar further along than Tau
> 
> 
> Concerning Chaos:
> 
> 
> 
> the book is done and almost at the printers
> an Iron Warriors character (?) has been seen, with a huge servo harness
> possible new Obliterators (plastic or Finecast?)
> painted versions of all 4 cult terminators have been sighted - could be conversions though
> plastic Plaguebearers on round bases have been sighted
> 
> The already "known" Necron wave was confirmed: 2 flyers, the big walker, the jet bikes, Wraiths and Spiders. I quote: "The wraiths and spiders did NOT look like a dual kit".
> 
> Another interesting quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Confirms the usual suspects - but the other beasty sounds like the Parasite of Mortex to me, not the Harpy.
> 
> And last, but definetely not least: more flyers seem to be in the works, including an Ork Fighter! It seemed to be very similar to the FW version. No specific mention of a timeframe was given - expect it sometime the next six months.
> 
> The usual disclaimer: while _I_ trust my birdies, you don't have to. Please don't take any of this as gospel.



This makes me one happy Berzerker


----------



## Words_of_Truth

!!!!! Awesome


----------



## Uveron

I hope 

But not sure; I was hopeing that the chaos codex would be post 6th ed. 

Ah well...


----------



## yanlou

So if its true its at the printing stage, how long does that mean till actual release?


----------



## GrizBe

yanlou said:


> So if its true its at the printing stage, how long does that mean till actual release?


Usually, they only send to print about 3 months before release date... Soo, it could by a may/june release, or, be released just after 6th Ed as new edition releases are usually july.


----------



## SilverTabby

A codex release is done and dusted and sent to the printers anywhere between 4 - 6months before release. White Dwarf for their release is written 3 months in advance, and the codex is finalised before they even start.

Which means if (for example) it's a june release, it's gone already and WD are working on their articles now.


----------



## mcmuffin

I am going to hazard a guess at either august or september for CSM. I would lean more towards september because agust will se the release of the new starter kit.


----------



## whiplash308

I'm excited. Come on Chaos, I know you have faith in being released eventually. I want to get the codex while I'm young!


----------



## yanlou

oh right i see, so it could be awhile yet, personally i would like to see and easter release, would make a nice easter egg lol.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I want it now, I still don't believe how bad the current codex is


----------



## whiplash308

It sadly is a pathetic excuse of a codex. Everything that was glorious got thrown down the toilet.


----------



## MidnightSun

I both look forward to and dread the day the the new CSM book is released. One the one hand, we get new models, new rules, new combinations of stuff to try. On the other, some units will become crap, some will become awesome, and I'll have to generally buy more stuff. Oh, and the damned bandwagoners. They'll annoy me.

I'm concerned that the new book is apparently so close to release. No longer do I want to go and buy Obliterators, or Plague Marines - what if I get four months use out of them and then they become really, seriously bad? But if I buy the models I really like (Thousand Sons, Defilers), they might ALSO suck in the new Codex. Thus an uncomfortable few months passes during which I buy nothing but basic CSM and Rhinos, knowing that whatever happens they're likely to remain at least decent, while proxying Lesser Daemons with Genestealers.

Midnight


----------



## yanlou

I have a feeling there will be more then enough new stuff in the next dex for you to buy, if rumours are true we could see daemon engines hopefully in plastic, new characters and maybe more cult based units, but of course all speculation at the moment, so cant wait, i dont care if some units that i have become crap, i have 10k pts of em, but that wont stop me, ill more and more, and yep theres bandwagons to NOT look foward to lol.


----------



## Khargoth

Yes I'm very, very interested to see how the Legions pan out. I can't say it'll be a _bad_ thing, there will be the usual fare of "Wahh this sucks now!" but frankly I don't give a toss about that. I hate the 5E 'dex because it is so hollow and stripped of options. If there is one thing to look forward to for this new codex, it's getting our variety back.


----------



## All_Is_Dust

Excited for this release. A new model for the Oblits would be great, its the only model I have never purchased lol. 

I'm really hoping my T Sons army gets a breath of fresh air with some new spells. Any time I go to tournament people always laugh at me


----------



## whiplash308

Well who wouldn't want new models for Obiliterators? Arguably the best thing in the current shit of a codex, but the current shit of a model that makes the codex look like the best thing. 

I agree with you also dude. Having a Tzeentch and Khorne dedicated warband is making me sad nowadays.


----------



## LukeValantine

Plastic oblitorators? Let us hope they don't nerf the unit along side any new potential models as they have done so, although rarely in the past..


----------



## crabpuff

Plastic oblits would be awesome if done right, with lots of modeling options. Of course if that happens they will probably get nerfed in the codex or become seriously overpriced.


----------



## yanlou

i doubt they would nerf them somehow, they would prob make them the same or better, put them in plastic kits of three and see them sell like hot cakes.


----------



## Svartmetall

My thinking exactly - I've been using the plastic Minotaurs as the basis for my Obliterator conversions, and while doing so it's struck me that a similarly-priced box of 3 multi-part plastic Obliterators with many weapon options would be very cool. And almost certainly sell like the aforementioned heated comestibles.


----------



## whiplash308

If they put Obliterators in plastic kits of 3, they would turn out to be just as expensive as a Juggernaut kit. Maybe they should go the way of the Chaos Spawn kit. Two Spawn with tons of bits available to totally mutate the shit out of a big ass Chaos Terminator.


----------



## yanlou

That could work also, but i think people would pay the price for 3 if oblits they where still really good, either way as long as there in plastic i dont care how they come, give me more bits anyday to mess about with.


----------



## gannam

come on guys, get real. GW will sell oblits as finecast models at 25 bucks a pop. They will be terrible too because of all the 45 degree cuts you have to make to clean that crap up. I could totally see trying to trim my melta gun "orfice" on my guy, and cutting it off with a dull butter knife.


----------



## yanlou

Theres a chance yes, but theres just as much chance as them been in plastic, could explain why they havent been put into finecast yet, because there sculpting new ones for plastic.


----------



## DreadLordRedAxe

Having plastic oblits would be great. I hate putting together the metal ones, which stopped from buying and more than the 2 I have now. Getting some new rules would be sweet, espically if they were allowed to take weapons from other armies as an swap for standard weapons since that could represent their gathering new strange equipment. Quick example a tau railgun for 20 a heat lance for 10


----------



## SilverTabby

They will never do that, as that would require cross-referencing other codexes and that puts things out of date faster than quoting rules instead of referencing the BRB.

What might happen though, is people model them using some imagination and use railguns to represent a lascannon, or a heat lance to represent a multimelta...


----------



## DreadLordRedAxe

Some of those were just examples I know the heat lance has some special rules but most of the common weapons from other codexes are found right in the back of the BRB so if they are there then it is conceivable to be able to use them from there.


----------



## Khargoth

gannam said:


> come on guys, get real. GW will sell oblits as finecast models at 25 bucks a pop. They will be terrible too because of all the 45 degree cuts you have to make to clean that crap up. I could totally see trying to trim my melta gun "orfice" on my guy, and cutting it off with a dull butter knife.


This. They haven‘t converted them to finecast til now, so they can pass them off as a codex-day ‘new release‘. I don‘t really hate the metal Obliterators (I do convert most of their guns with plastic ones though) but I‘m not looking forward to seeing how deformed the resin ones will be.


----------



## zacktheRipper

I just want some plastic Havocs without the '...-thinking pose-...I'll take one of each!'. Let them have a little more diversity on the sprue and i'll be happy.


----------



## whiplash308

I agree. But of course, if they do that they'd have to repackage the Devastator box also, and we all know how much GW would do that kind of thing! 
/facepalm


----------



## TheSpore

DreadLordRedAxe said:


> Some of those were just examples I know the heat lance has some special rules but most of the common weapons from other codexes are found right in the back of the BRB so if they are there then it is conceivable to be able to use them from there.


I never reference any weapon from the back of the BRB, only the codex, if anyone will recall the old wargear book, that thing had so many errors in it, it even stated a Termie had a 3+ instead of 2+


----------



## Weapon

TheSpore said:


> I never reference any weapon from the back of the BRB, only the codex, if anyone will recall the old wargear book, that thing had so many errors in it, it even stated a Termie had a 3+ instead of 2+


I actually thought it wasn't a typo, seeing as they get to take the save on 2d6 rather than 1d6, which is actually pretty good.

Of course I could be getting this wrong, I don't study 2nd edition codex's like the bible or anything.


----------



## ZARDRA

hi guys i have not had much of a chance to read the hole thread but i did hear that the new codex for chaos will be 2 book's, one for legions and the other for cultist ect. i dont no what is exactly in each book but this has come from a number of very good sources ( no i am not saying who but they have not been wrong on info before for me ) also rumered that dark angels and chaos will be in the new 6th ed box along with cultists and chaos marines. i'll have a read through the thread and also see what i can find out asap.


----------



## slaaneshy

I too have heard all those things....on this very thread!
Still, nice to recap I suppose!


----------



## clever handle

zacktheRipper said:


> I just want some plastic Havocs without the '...-thinking pose-...I'll take one of each!'. Let them have a little more diversity on the sprue and i'll be happy.





whiplash308 said:


> I agree. But of course, if they do that they'd have to repackage the Devastator box also, and we all know how much GW would do that kind of thing!
> /facepalm


name one box set where you get multiples of the same special / heavy weapon? I really can't think of any beyond Chaos terminators getting multiple powerfists & power weapons...

ALL new boxes give you one of each special weapon & that is why we need bits & kits


----------



## zacktheRipper

Very true, very true. Yet, hope is one thing I have always had a lot of! XD


----------



## Hurricane

Hey everyone! So I've been out of the 40k loop for a while now, but I really want to jump right back in. I'm very interested in beginning chaos and so I've been browsing the rumor sections noticing that it appears chaos marines will be receiving a new codex this year (possibly?).

I want to get started early though on the skeleton of an army that I would work more on once the new codex is released. So, are there any models/kits you would recommend getting that are believed to not be changing come the new codex? I don't care much for rules so I'm not worried about certain units becoming outdated, but I do care about appearances. Just looking over GW's website, it looks like berserkers and terminators are both very good looking kits that aren't likely to change. Agree? Disagree? What else would you recommend picking up to begin a chaos army, and what should I look to avoid as it would almost certainly be updated later this year?


----------



## Ultra1

your vehicles likely will not change, rhinos, predators, land raiders etc. essentially most of the multi-part plastic stuff will not change. stay away from metal models like raptors as they're the most likely to change.


----------



## GreatUncleanOne

Well the SM dev sqd box has 2 of each hvy weapon so if and when they redo the havocs they could do the same quite easily.

It would be awesome (but unlikely) if they did a box with same idea but for special weapons seeing as a few squads can take multiple special weapons


----------



## All_Is_Dust

I was going through the same thing with Eldar. What I decided to do was just buy the models I know I love the look of. Even if they come out with new models for the ones I already bought, it doesn't diminish how much I like the ones I already have. Plus it will add diversity to your army. Which is always nice.

But to answer your question more direct 
The vehicles are likely to stay the same or be very very similar. 
Im betting the t sons models will change (call it wishful thinking lol), but the current ones are still awesome. 
Most of the named HQ's will probably be updated in some way, either plastic/finecast or new models as they are all pretty old and for the most part still metal. 
Im sure the Havocs will get replaced, they are so annoying to build right now (half metal and plastic). 
Unless they give us storm shields I doubt our terminators will get updated as it's already a nice box set. Although a little lackluster unit in the current codex, but any CSM army is well served with a Termicide Squad waiting in reserve 
I don't think they will update the Khorne Berzerkers and Plague Marines since they are both plastic and great looking models. Noise Marines are due for an overhaul though.
Please god I hope we get new Oblits, Im sure we will since nobody likes them.

Anyway this is all pure speculation, I'm just going by my gut based on the models they have released in finecast and which ones already look really nice. I could be 100% wrong and hopefully I am, hopefully they are all new!!!

Nobody really knows when at this point a new codex is coming out it could be more than 6 months away or it could be next month. Don't wait to start having fun, just get 1 unit at a time paint em up then move on to the next and before you know it we'll have our new stuff. And you'll still love your old models, I know I sure do


----------



## mcmuffin

Khorne berzerkers are fucking hideous, i can see them getting an update plagues are not finecast, they are plastic. If you wan't something that won't change, buy possessed, they will not change and will likely get awesome rules.


----------



## aboytervigon

Plague marines are dual plastic/finecast and Khorne beserkers are not that bad.


----------



## Thebluemage2

New Traiter Marine Codex? You friend,have just made my day.:biggrin:

I am excited to see what this new Little Horus model looks like, Even more excited at the prospect of owning such a thing!


----------



## LukeValantine

Lies all lies! The next CSM codex will both be infinitely more crappy and yet infinitely better then what is held within the confines of these vague rumors. Or so I believe?


----------



## Khargoth

aboytervigon said:


> Plague marines are dual plastic/finecast and Khorne beserkers are not that bad.


Wow, really? That‘s actually the first plastic/finecast combo kit I‘ve heard of!


----------



## All_Is_Dust

I haven't bought any new ones but I'm pretty sure they are full on finecast. Again not sure all 28 of mine are metal/plastic.


----------



## Horacus

Khargoth said:


> Wow, really? That‘s actually the first plastic/finecast combo kit I‘ve heard of!


Actually just the bkacpacks are plastic...


----------



## Khargoth

Well yeah there you go. They do plastic backpacks by the boatload, as its one of the few 'bitz' GW Direct still offer.


----------



## Adramalech

Any solid news about the release date or what models we'll see? or has it pretty much all been discussion of how much salt to take with the current rumors and shameless wishlisting?

MORE WISHLISTING:
finecast models that don't call quality control into question
plastic raptors w/ new sculpts
plastic dreadnought w/ new sculpt
plastic non-termie lord
plastic cult marines w/ new sculpts
MOAR DAEMONS/DAEMON ENGINES!

AND I want all of any given unit's codex options to be represented on their own damn sprues and frames in their own damn box. I suppose GW will fail to do this and release just a few of the more popular pieces as finecast bitz >:T


----------



## shaantitus

I agree with the posessed being worth a look. They will probably get a buff to make use of the fantastic models. So far i have 24 posessed that i can use as either posessed or raptors. looking forward to the new dex.


----------



## Khargoth

I'd like to see a kit for Chosen, but it's unlikely. GW like forcing people to buy tonnes of CSM kits for the accessories sprue, and out of spite for bitz sellers, who would pounce on such a kit.


----------



## gridge

My glorious army of Nurgle has been quietly rotting, waiting for a new codex to bring them back from the dead. This just may do it.


----------



## GrizBe

So this come from Stickmonkey:



> So my snitches have passed along a few bits.
> 
> Up next for 40k sounds like may timeframe for a chaos codex. Rumored to expand upon 4 major legions.
> 
> New plastics
> Chaos dread.
> New plastic raptors
> New plastic plague bearers
> 
> New character sculpts, not sure if abaddon is included...
> 
> I think most if not all of this has been mentioned before.
> 
> On top of this, I'm hearing there will be a few blister releases for other armies between now and summer. Even with WFB likely to take the spotlight in April, I'm being told to expect 2-3 blisters for 40k.
> 
> Likely candidates include missing characters for Nids, Necrons, DE. All of which have sculpts ready.
> 
> Cheers.


also:



> Emporers children
> Death guard
> World eaters
> Thousand sons
> 
> But that's not all that's in the book from what I hear. And the conflict in what I've heard is that they expanded upon the 4 chaos gods, or they expanded upon the 4 legions devoted to those specific gods, so I'm not certain which is true right now, if either.
> 
> I have heard from many sources traitor guard and others are in the book, but nothing close enough for me to have a lot of faith yet there.


----------



## mcmuffin

May eh? Fuck, gotta get some money set up for that. I hope it doesnt end up like Daemons, it was the last 4th ed book and look what happened there:threaten:


----------



## GrizBe

mcmuffin said:


> May eh? Fuck, gotta get some money set up for that. I hope it doesnt end up like Daemons, it was the last 4th ed book and look what happened there:threaten:


See my new thread for a few more rumors reguarding this..... but i'll point out he did say 'It may not be may, but its the next 40 release slot, which is likely to be may'.

Either way with 6th Ed comming june/july, and April being WFB, May sounds good to me.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Gah do I keep painting my fists or go back to repainting my World Eaters!


----------



## SilverTabby

mcmuffin said:


> May eh? Fuck, gotta get some money set up for that. I hope it doesnt end up like Daemons, it was the last 4th ed book and look what happened there:threaten:


Everything from Grey Knights onwards has been 6th-ed compatible. The rules were finalised late last year, and were being playtested whilst the newer codeces were being written. At worst, they'll need a minor FAQ.


----------



## Usaal

Words_of_Truth said:


> Gah do I keep painting my fists or go back to repainting my World Eaters!


make Angry marines and it would be like painting Both :biggrin:


----------



## mcmuffin

SilverTabby said:


> Everything from Grey Knights onwards has been 6th-ed compatible. The rules were finalised late last year, and were being playtested whilst the newer codeces were being written. At worst, they'll need a minor FAQ.


Daemons were written with 6th ed in mind, they just didnt realise how dominant mech would be when writing the daemon dex. i simply worry that chaos will get decent 5th ed rules but when 6th comes around, the meta will change and leave us in the dirt. I hope 6th ed meta = mech as well, footsloggin hammer is boring


----------



## LukeValantine

Or they may overshoot the balance like they sometimes due in getting a codex ready for the next edition, and lead to another 6-8 years of people bitching about how broken CSM's are like back in 3.5


----------



## mcmuffin

That wouldnt bother me, it would stop the moaning about GK for a bit.


----------



## SilverTabby

mcmuffin said:


> Daemons were written with 6th ed in mind, they just didnt realise how dominant mech would be when writing the daemon dex. i simply worry that chaos will get decent 5th ed rules but when 6th comes around, the meta will change and leave us in the dirt. I hope 6th ed meta = mech as well, footsloggin hammer is boring


Don't worry. The finalised 40k rules are done and dusted, and were *before* work started on new Chaos. They know the new rules inside out, I don't think there'll be a problem.


----------



## Khargoth

SilverTabby said:


> Don't worry. The finalised 40k rules are done and dusted, and were *before* work started on new Chaos. They know the new rules inside out, I don't think there'll be a problem.


Considering this is GW we are talking about, excuse me for considering this wishful thinking...


----------



## Horacus

May hu? It that's true then YAY may 19's my birthday. I may spent the whole lot of my money on the new stuff...damn compulsive ways...


----------



## mcmuffin

I hope so, I hope so.


----------



## CPT Killjoy

I do hope they leave some space for legion creation (I.E. if they leave out the Alpha Legion, you could still build an army to "create" them out of units from the new codex). As of right now, CSM fight like one army, when really they should feel much more seperate imo. Either way, May would be awesome. I had figured September at the soonest.


----------



## Lord-Ja'coby

night lords i want it all!!:grin:


----------



## unxpekted22

Sounds good. I think a legions codex would be great and I have always loved the chaos models, just haven't found enough desire to start a gaming army with them yet. I am confident the new ones will be fantastic. Of course this is all very early specualtion and doesnt really hint toward anything rule wise. Besides, we all know chaos players are infamous for complaining no matter what hehe.


----------



## Adramalech

LukeValantine said:


> Or they may overshoot the balance like they sometimes due in getting a codex ready for the next edition, and lead to another 6-8 years of people bitching about how broken CSM's are like back in 3.5


I would enjoy having broken CSM's immensely, especially if slaanesh gets some love  I'll finally have an excuse to spend more on kit-bashing.

look out, BA. Slaanesh is coming for your bitz!


----------



## The Son of Horus

yeah, except the Codex: CSM prior to the current one was actually fun and characterful and only broken if you were trying to break it. A lot of the codecies now are broken WITHOUT anybody having to try to break it... I want all my daemonic gifts and cool options back, dammit!


----------



## Black Legionare

Well if the rumors are correct, then we'll only be stuck with the current book for another 3 months are so. Just the thought of this overwhelms me with tremendous joy. But.. I... must... contain myself... Eat... more... salt. Ah, that's better. Ok, we'll see if GW can pull this off.


----------



## whiplash308

-inhaled lines of salt-

I kinda died a bit when I read plastic raptors. Let the Chaos gods not deceive us!


----------



## Usaal

CPT Killjoy said:


> I do hope they leave some space for legion creation (I.E. if they leave out the Alpha Legion, you could still build an army to "create" them out of units from the new codex). As of right now, CSM fight like one army, when really they should feel much more seperate imo. Either way, May would be awesome. I had figured September at the soonest.


I agree with this. I find it annoying that I am trying to build a Emperor's Children army out of the same book as someone doing Iron Warriors or World Eaters. Yet the Space marines have characters that influence the army by taking them, as well as separate army books for some of the Space marine legions. Seems only fair to have Chaos forces to the main gods have there own army builds and units beyond just the Troop choice.


----------



## GreatUncleanOne

And for the love of Nurgles sack please don't make it that if you want a themed army you have to take a named char. Its annoying and bloody stupid!


----------



## whiplash308

Oh I would cry if that was necessary. 

What I would like to see, is the ability to take special things from special "Books of Chaos", but not limited to taking things from only that book. Of course I'd want themed Night Lords or World Eaters, but why not have the ability to take a bit from both as well as going totally themed?


----------



## normtheunsavoury

With the way things are going I can see it being a case of take Abaddon, use X as troops, take Fabius Bile and use Y as troops. It does seem to be the way things are going at the moment.


----------



## Truefaith

I would like to see the CSM codex mirror the SM codex to some extent. I would like to see the Cult Marines moved to the Elites Slot, and have certain HQ slots unlock them for troops. 

So if you wanted a Themed CSM army you took X hq choice and got X elites as Troops, possibly even with an addition army wide rule, something themey.

I just dont see how you would be able to have 1 codex represent 4 gods and a undivided themed armies with out something like that.

Also Im not saying it has to be a named character, but it would have to be something unique, maybe an option to add to a lord or sorc. Like 30pts get the same marked elite choice as troops... And certain ones couldnt work together...

Oh well, not really a rumor, just a wish list. Cant wait to see what GW does...


----------



## Kreuger

True faith, that's basically the way the previous chaos book worked. Generally it was a good system, though there were a few waysbit could be abused.


----------



## LukeValantine

Personally I am just exited for a new book. After such a long dead period I am really looking forward to a new outlook on the army.


----------



## yanlou

The best thing is to keep cult troops in the same place, the Troops Choice, keep the cult elites to chosen and termies, otherwise the elites section will be overwhelmed, plus it works well the way it is for troops.


----------



## LukeValantine

I would hate to see cult marines go to elite as that would leave our codex with a single troop choice, which if they keep the current rulings on objectives next edition would mean a generally weak codex tactically.


----------



## Khargoth

yanlou said:


> The best thing is to keep cult troops in the same place, the Troops Choice, keep the cult elites to chosen and termies, otherwise the elites section will be overwhelmed, plus it works well the way it is for troops.


That's just an excuse to mercilessly nerf cult units. You want them to not suck, _and_ be a Troops unit. We aren't Loyalists, so there's no way in hell that's going to happen.


----------



## LukeValantine

Khargoth said:


> That's just an excuse to mercilessly nerf cult units. You want them to not suck, _and_ be a Troops unit. We aren't Loyalists, so there's no way in hell that's going to happen.


Or they could just keep it as is. After all only retards complain about plague marines, or berzerkers being over powered in the age of Strike squads, and necron immortals. Besides some choices like noise marines, and even thousand sons are really on the weak side for their near 25pts a model price tag (Mandatory upgrades).

Also if you havn't noticed they have already nerfed some cult troops (Thousand sons can't move in difficult if they lose their sorc now).


----------



## yanlou

Khargoth said:


> That's just an excuse to mercilessly nerf cult units. You want them to not suck, _and_ be a Troops unit. We aren't Loyalists, so there's no way in hell that's going to happen.


Why would it be a nerf keeping zerkers, plague marines etc as troops, for one it would keep them cheaper then been elites and more accessable and used in larger numbers, so i still dont get why you say itll be a nerf.

The only thing that should be elite when it comes to cult units is termis and chosen. ie zerker termie, plague termis.

I may not have been a chaos player during the 3/3.5 ed csm codex, i may have only read through it, but i understand how strong it was, but i also understand that one of the strong points of the current dex is the fact zerkers, plague marines etc are troops and i wish it to remain so, as it will also provide strength to the next dex.


----------



## Sephyr

yanlou said:


> Why would it be a nerf keeping zerkers, plague marines etc as troops, for one it would keep them cheaper then been elites and more accessable and used in larger numbers, so i still dont get why you say itll be a nerf.
> 
> The only thing that should be elite when it comes to cult units is termis and chosen. ie zerker termie, plague termis.


I know this is not going to happen, but it would be great if we had some units with a shared troop/elite profile, like DE has with Warriors/Trueborn and Wyches/Bloodbrides.

Want Khorne Berserkers? They have mostly the same profile they do now and stay troops. Want infernal, Horus Heresy veteran, daemon-weapon-wielding World eater zerkers? They cost a bit more, have an improved profile and come in the Elite selection...unless you actually have a World Eaters army (or HQ that makes it legal..whatecer system they want).


----------



## yanlou

Sephyr said:


> I know this is not going to happen, but it would be great if we had some units with a shared troop/elite profile, like DE has with Warriors/Trueborn and Wyches/Bloodbrides.
> 
> Want Khorne Berserkers? They have mostly the same profile they do now and stay troops. Want infernal, Horus Heresy veteran, daemon-weapon-wielding World eater zerkers? They cost a bit more, have an improved profile and come in the Elite selection...unless you actually have a World Eaters army (or HQ that makes it legal..whatecer system they want).


That were chosen should come in, Chosen Zerkers, those that the most gifted and grizzled of there berzerk brethren etc, rules wise they could have better WS or S and have an extra USR like fleet or something, these would be the eilte cult units not basic zerkers.

Also weve got to think, this is GW and what better way to get more money then to keep the current cult troop choices in the same place, make them better, imagine how much GW will get as troop choices are esstential to any army espeically if they keep the place as been able to claim objectives.


----------



## LukeValantine

Or GW may just screw the pouch and do the compleat opposite of everything we think they are going to do. Like make berzerkers more powerful and fast attack, or nerf noise marines even further and make them elites. Its GW until the new dex comes out anything is possible even the worst.


----------



## All_Is_Dust

LukeValantine said:


> Personally I am just exited for a new book. After such a long dead period I am really looking forward to a new outlook on the army.


agreed


----------



## Usaal

The way Cult troops are set up now are fine, it allows for a Themed army with something more than standard CSM to be the bulk force of your army. They should keep zerkers, Noise Marines and what not as troops.
I would however like to seem them integrate a way to make it more Themed to your god or legion of choice, weather thats through a Chracter giving the option for it, EI: Take Lucius and you can stick sonic weapons into havoc squads again or on tanks. Or even if its just a flat option like it use to be... have options in the build for them to take the upgrade of your God. They use to have taking a Dirge caster on a Pred to open up sonic blasters sponsons.


----------



## hungryugolino

It can always get worse.


----------



## Adramalech

I don't care what they do, as long as monogod-themed armies are competitive well into 6th edition and all four major cults, as well as some fun stuff for chaos undivided, are well-represented in the wargear choices of every single unit (save cult marines and god-themed characters, of course, as they only have, but excel in the use of, the toys given to them by a single god)


----------



## Judas Masias

I don't know if this has been posted yet but here are the lateist rumors reguarding the Chaos Legions Codex. Credit goes out to The Dude for posting this.

They're 10,000 years old, they lost, and they are PISSED. Here's the latest scuttlebutt out there on the Traitor Legions.


via The Dude (That's just... like... your opinion, man.)

- First up, there is the implication of the new aesthetic design of the dead Thousand Son torso on the ThunderWolves kit. Have fun with that one. Plastic cult troops are said to be on the way.

- Talk of new Chaos Predator weapon options including a TL Plasmagun turret with single Plasmagun sponsons.

- Hints of Obliterator weapon morphs expanding beyond just energy weapons (as has been mentioned in some recent Black Library novels)

- Talk of several special characters look to be getting varying levels of Eternal Warrior (1-3), including Abaddon, Kharn, Typhus and two more. Hmm, multiple versions of Eternal Warrior was including in the "Mystery/Hoax ruleset.


- Options for "mid-level" characters possibly able to be taken taken as 2-for-1 HQ choices, or possibly as "as a separate Elite or Fast or Troop choice that can be split off" Example given was a possible unit of Dark Apostles that can then split off as squad leaders. (like Wolfguard)


- Chaos will struggle to combat psykers, but Khornate characters have ways of nullifying psychic abilities aimed at them. (probably Collars of Khorne)


- More options for Thousand Sons and a Tzeentch Daemon Engine.


- And finally, talk of Alpha Legion forcing enemies to take Ld tests before they move or shoot in some manner. ~ I am Alpharius!


~Enjoy Folks!

Here is the link: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/03/40k-rumors-chaos-legions-march-update.html


----------



## Fallen

no slaaneshi love either in this "news" release. :cray:


----------



## whiplash308

I agree Fallen! I know there are some Nurgle players that have posted here who will be displeased with the lack of Nurgle fun times on this news from BoLS, but some of us will also be sad with the lack of Slaaneshi fun times. I know I am. 

My warband will love Dark Apostle squads, psyker-defensive Khornate stuff and Tzeentchian daemon engines and TSons getting stuff. 

Now I'm not saying that the stuff I, amongst others, will enjoy is true, but it would be very enjoyable. That's for sure.


----------



## SilverTabby

I would love to know how these "rumours" are being come up with. Because it's sure as hell not coming from the writer, and Studio tours no longer exist...

don't take rumours as gospel, because they're 90% wishlisting and educated guesses.


----------



## LukeValantine

Not to be a ass, but the lack of nurgle fun times is a good thing. Out of all the cult factiosn in the codex nurgle had more going for it then the other 3 gods. Plaue marines were the best cult choice in the book, and they actaully released a DP just for nurgle. Let some of the other factions get some attention like tzeentch or slaanesh. I'm sick of nurgle eand khorn being the dominant army builds for CSM's for this last edition time for something diffent.


----------



## GreatUncleanOne

Sorry but the only nurgle build army I see in my area is me and another guy. everyone else goes for the others and picks the cheesiest combos they can think of.


----------



## mcmuffin

Chaos marines = incapable of cheese at the minute


----------



## LukeValantine

True, and the net lists all revolve around plague marine troops, Slaanesh DP's, and oblitorators. Its almost impossible to make a cheessy list with thousand sons and noise marines, no matter how libral your usage of the term cheesy is.

After all a all thousand sons list will have virtually no advantage against 1/3 of all armies (Whats that you paid almost 25 pts a model for ap3 guns? To bad I only have 5+ armor, and 6 or so tanks. Sucks to be you I guess). Also anyone mentally sick enough to complain about noise marines being over powered should really pick up a caluculator and see what else they could get for the over 300pts they spent on a 10 man squad with sonic weapons. (I have actaully met peaple stupid enough to complain about thousand sons, and NM's before, luckly only 1-2 of thsoe peaple were on this forum).

Its not that nurgle and khorn are over powered its that they get the most attention and the best rules. +1 int? Useless. Tzeentch daemon weapon? Why are you wasting points on a weaker verion of a plasma gun? Fact is nurlge and khorne have always been the poster boys of chaos. They are the UM of the csm dex. Only in fantasy do we see a resurgence of tzeentch and slaanesh, and even then only because of their magic (Really -1 to WS and balistic skill why don't you just french kiss nurlge while your at it GW?). 

Now I love nurlge and khorn as much as any other csm player (Never leave home without my double melta plague marines), but complaining about nurlge needing more attention borders on the F&^&ing insane. Why not argue that UM or Cadians need more attention while your at it.


----------



## MadCowCrazy

MadCowCrazy: I have now compiled all the rumours from this thread, all other forums I go to and from the blogs I visit into the compilation thread at the top of the News and Rumours section.
Feel free to continue the discussion there, if you think it's missing something please send me a pm with a link to the information


----------



## Angelus Censura

^^^Not sure if this means no more posting in this thread. Please feel free to move my post if this is the case, and I aplogize for posting in the wrong area.

However, as to the Nurgle issue, I don't see many people at all playing a true Nurgle force. I see lots of Plague Marines, however, I also soo lots of DPs with the mark of Slannesh along with them, and other marks as well. With how muh love Forge World has shown Nurgle, I do not see it being an advantage sales wise nurfing Nurgle at all, or having them not seen as much in the new codex. Rather, I think the other factions will single be brought up to speed along with Nurgle being even better, to even out the playing field for the Chaos factions.


----------



## MadCowCrazy

I didn't lock this thread as it has had allot of good discussions, this thread is at 38 pages and has no compilation of rumours so I'm sure people will slowly drift towards my thread as more rumours come out. I'm letting this thread die with some dignity as it has been a center of talk regarding CSM rumours...


----------



## demonlord24

Come To Me Thousand Sons!!!! Came Back To Daddy!!!!!


----------



## turel2

I hope The Thousand Sons and The Emperors Children get some loving.

I would like to see a re sculpted plastic kit of Oblits too.


----------



## Judas Masias

All credit goes to the Dude for posting this.

Another week, and the steady drip, drip, drip continues. Here's the latest on the Warhammer 40k's Dread Chaos Legions...



via the Dude

- Codex is finished and should be leaving the printers shortly for warehousing ahead of distribution in the next couple of months.

- Four waves of miniature releases planned. 

- Mark-specific vehicle upgrades reminiscent of the 3.5 Chaos Marines Codex may appear, such as Poisoned flamers for Nurgle, higher strength/lower AP weapons for Tzeentch, Sonic weaponry for Slaanesh and "brutal blades" for Khorne.

- New specific differences between Raptors and "Chaos Assault Marines". Raptors now a new cult for Night Lords Legion and "Chaos Assault Marines" being available to all Legions and markable.

- HQ choicess will effect the types of units and marks available to your Army. Also noted that "IF 6th Edition returns to Percentages, the Codex will make more sense" 

- Finally, word of Daemons being redone for 40K and Fantasy in 2013, with new Greater Daemon models.

Heres the link:http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/03/40k-rumors-chaos-legions-on-march.html


----------



## LukeValantine

Judas Masias said:


> - Four waves of miniature releases planned.


Son of a bitch!


----------



## OIIIIIIO

One thing that strikes me as rather odd. I could be wrong but I thought that the Night Lords were the 'purest' of the traitor marines (read as least tainted). If the Raptors are a cult for them then that would be a serious retcon of the known fluff for them. God knows that GW has done such things before but this is one that I do not think that I could agree with.


----------



## Boc

LukeValantine said:


> Son of a bitch!


Each wave 2 years separated from its predecessor...


----------



## whiplash308

Wow, March? So many rumors, don't know what to believe! D:


----------



## Azkaellon

Boc said:


> Each wave 2 years separated from its predecessor...


LOL! sad part is its true......still waiting on some of the Dark Eldar chars now i think about it.......and units...


----------



## forkmaster

Dammit, what I know of old fluff is that Raptors were highly used by both NL and EC, now only the former. It will be interesting to see who these Chaos Assault Marines looks like.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

OIIIIIIO said:


> One thing that strikes me as rather odd. I could be wrong but I thought that the Night Lords were the 'purest' of the traitor marines (read as least tainted). If the Raptors are a cult for them then that would be a serious retcon of the known fluff for them. God knows that GW has done such things before but this is one that I do not think that I could agree with.


Kind of, although they do appear to be in the soul hunter series which mentions them being the first on the walls of the palace, but that doesn't exclude them being assault marines at the time I guess. 

I don't mind Raptors being a Night Lord's cult though, adds a bit more flavour to an otherwise normal evil legion. Also makes it easier to include jump pack units in a themed army, rather than having raptors randomly pop up.


----------



## mcmuffin

As long as i can give khorne berzerkers jump packs or fleet i will be a happy little skull champion.


----------



## gridge

Words_of_Truth said:


> Kind of, although they do appear to be in the soul hunter series which mentions them being the first on the walls of the palace, not as merely assault marines either, but that doesn't exclude them being assault marines at the time I guess.
> 
> I don't mind Raptors being a Night Lord's cult though, adds a bit more flavour to an otherwise normal evil legion. Also makes it easier to include jump pack units in a themed army, rather than having raptors randomly pop up.


Indeed. I like the bit of flavor they add to the Night Lords as well. The Bleeding Eyes cult (the raptors in A.D.B.'s book Blood Reaver) are mentioned as being loyal first to themselves and the legion second. The difference in loyalty and attitude could possibly explain why they became so tainted while most other Night Lords prefer to not align themselves the gods.

Personally, I'm just hoping for a good codex that will inspire me to dust off my old plague marine force. They have been boxed up since that last abomination of a codex that sapped all the flavor out of the army in my opinion. I don't want to mix and match my gods damn it! I want all Nurgle all the time and I want god-specific demons supporting my forces as well as more ways to customize my army with my chosen entity in mind.


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## Black Legionare

So with such a large amount of chaos rumors that have recently just been pouring through the internet, I think we can all safely assume that it's next. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, to possibly be crushed under the steel boot of GW, but I find it hard to believe that with this much information (and such specifics) that it will be coming any later than June.


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## Necrosis

Black Legionare said:


> So with such a large amount of chaos rumors that have recently just been pouring through the internet, I think we can all safely assume that it's next. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, to possibly be crushed under the steel boot of GW, but I find it hard to believe that with this much information (and such specifics) that it will be coming any later than June.


Unless its all one big early April fools joke!


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## Black Legionare

Lol, I highly doubt that's the case. The rumors have been being fed to us by a wide range of different people. Do you really think that all of them organized it as a joke?

However, if that does become the case, it won't be funny at all. In fact, the exact opposite. The world shall be in ruin by my very rage that boiled the oceans and split the land usunder, none shall escape the wrath of ME!:angry:

Ahem... Sorry, I've been worshipping Khorne more often than the others.


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## Necrosis

Black Legionare said:


> Lol, I highly doubt that's the case. The rumors have been being fed to us by a wide range of different people. Do you really think that all of them organized it as a joke?
> 
> However, if that does become the case, it won't be funny at all. In fact, the exact opposite. The world shall be in ruin by my very rage that boiled the oceans and split the land usunder, none shall escape the wrath of ME!:angry:
> 
> Ahem... Sorry, I've been worshipping Khorne more often than the others.


This exact same thing happened, what was it, two years ago with Dark Eldar rumors. Then everyone got mad at Warseer. Also has anyone reliable said anything about these rumors? Or is it just a bunch of new sources coming out of no where?


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## Black Legionare

Necrosis said:


> This exact same thing happened, what was it, two years ago with Dark Eldar rumors. Then everyone got mad at Warseer. Also has anyone reliable said anything about these rumors? Or is it just a bunch of new sources coming out of no where?


Ok, and weren't they updated two years ago? Well, rumors are never ever really "reliable". Typically when there's a large number of people saying similar stuff, that's going to be reliable as a rumor can be, excluding hard evidence (leaked photos).

I'm not saying there's no way it can be a prank, just unlikely.


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## Necrosis

Black Legionare said:


> Ok, and weren't they updated two years ago? Well, rumors are never ever really "reliable". Typically when there's a large number of people saying similar stuff, that's going to be reliable as a rumor can be, excluding hard evidence (leaked photos).
> 
> I'm not saying there's no way it can be a prank, just unlikely.


Dark Eldar weren't release during spring/summer? Nor are their weapons str 2, rending. When a large number of people are saying the same thing, who are not our usually people who talk about rumors and are taking about it near April, its probably a joke.


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## Black Legionare

Again, you may be correct. Only time will tell though, only time.

Let's hope it's not a joke though, because I'm really liking some the stuff there saying.


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