# 8th Edition Rumours



## Gret79

So this is floating round on the net this morning...




> 1, Codexs are done and will be replaced on launch day withwar-scroll style releases much in the vain that AOS was.
> 
> 
> 2, Gone are templates, weapons will instead do random numbers of wounds much like flamer do now in overwatch
> 
> 
> 3, Vehicle armour values are gone, vehicles will instead get multiple wounds (expect even the most basic tank to have a lot of wounds doublefigures) heavier weapons will however do multiple wounds too.
> 
> 
> 4, Weapons will have a armour save modifier much like second edition rather than an ap value, so you have a save and this is reduced depending which weapon you’re shot with, rather than getting full save until your ap value is beaten.
> 
> 
> 5, Early summer release date, I think he said June but it may have been July my memory isn’t what it used to be J.
> 
> 
> 6, Rules will be simplified but not to the extent of AOS like AOS there will be three ways to play open narrative and matched.
> 
> 
> 7, Charging from vehicles is back not just assault vehicles,expect to see rhinos full of assault marines as far as the eye can see…


 
I honestly don't know how I feel about those. I own a lot of codex's and IA's :/
Vehicles having wounds means no vehicle damage.
I like templates (but not the scatter dice - it hates me ) and I'll be sad if they go.


What are everyone else's thoughts?


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## Battman

Been seeing these floating around out, certainly seems interesting enough, unless they gut the game as bad as they did with warhammer.

But some tidying could be done, so bit on the fence with the ideas they are bringing out

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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## neferhet

Add this to the previously mentioned morale changes and we basically have Age of Emperor.
We'll see.
Is this rumor reliable? SALT! (but panick nonetheless)


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## DaisyDuke

I will be sad to see templates go, but I guess we will just have to wait and see. It seems strange to bin off all of the recent publications what with plague marines around the corner, but this is GW so it's the waiting game.


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## Gret79

I've checked this with a separate source and got told to expect the template bit.
I'm taking that with salt but I've no reason to disbelieve him.


Also found the beneath



Faiet212 said:


> *via an anonymous source (take this as solid as you can get)*
> _Codices are not going away._
> _Won't comment on any other lucky swings in that list. _


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## neferhet

I wont say that i'd like to see templates gone. I certainly love the fact that small blast weapons could be more useful. but flamers...damn i love the flamer template!


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## DaisyDuke

neferhet said:


> I wont say that i'd like to see templates gone. I certainly love the fact that small blast weapons could be more useful. but flamers...damn i love the flamer template!


Preach on


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## neferhet

DaisyDuke said:


> Preach on


Sorry, but i am not linguistically able to understand that :laugh:
really, what do you mean @DaisyDuke?
i'm at a loss...


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## scscofield

Imagine a fire and brimstone preacher going 'Praise the lord!' then apply it to flamer templates.


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## neferhet

----all hail the flamer template lord! 
May the fiery template of his fury fall upon our enemy!-----


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## Shandathe

They can have my template-firing Shredding Hand Flamers when they pry them from my cold dead hands. I'm very much against replacing maneuvering skill with random dice luck.


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## DkMiBuch

As with any changes here in life, I fear the worst.

My main concern is an over simplification of the rules. To me, one of the charming parts of the game is discussing and interpreting rules, while under heavy influence of alcohol.
Also I like telling AoS players that their game is for idiots and juveniles (even though I've never tried it or even read the rules). If 40k becomes too simple, I'll be robbed of that joy.

However, armour saves modifiers is something I've always wanted (wasn't in the game during 2nd ed).


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## neferhet

DkMiBuch said:


> As with any changes here in life, I fear the worst.
> 
> My main concern is an over simplification of the rules. To me, one of the charming parts of the game is discussing and interpreting rules, while under heavy influence of alcohol.
> Also I like telling AoS players that their game is for idiots and juveniles (even though I've never tried it or even read the rules). If 40k becomes too simple, I'll be robbed of that joy.
> 
> However, armour saves modifiers is something I've always wanted (wasn't in the game during 2nd ed).


I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but since i'm currently i'm under the influence of alchohol, i can totally tell you that you misread the Reanimation protocol rules. :grin:


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## Haskanael

DkMiBuch said:


> idiots and juveniles (even though I've never tried it or even read the rules).


so basicly you behave like that towards people that play AoS, good to know :grin:

honestly the 40K rules could use some streamlining, but despite enjoying AoS I hope the 40k rules won't be revamped to that extend. 
AND HANDS OFF OF MY TEMPLATES!!! my guardsmen need em...


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## Fallen

neferhet said:


> ...you misread the Reanimation protocol rules. :grin:


For stupidity reasons I almost always use the term "Reproduction Protocols" for this rule! :laugh::laugh:

----

I'll be honest the two items that intrigue me the most is the removal of armor value and armor modifiers.

I'm on the watch for how exactly they plan on making 2+ armor become "good" again, and how they would make power armor remain important.

----

I think that simply switching vehicles over to a MC stat line is a better idea than this current mix-match hybrid Bullshit that is currently going on. (see Chariots, and Walkers for example)

Since Walkers and MCs already are for all purposes the exact same thing. Making vehicles base T6 (aka AV 10) with a 2+ save and three HP (Hit/Hull Points) and going up on their T value pending the vehicle. Best thing about this idea is that your HP doesn't have to change if the system works seemlessly.

Here are some potential ideas

Rhino = T7 2+ armor
Chinera = T6 2+ armor
Dread/Helbrute/other 12-12-10 walkers = T8 2+ armor
Venerable/Siege/Dinobot/Defiler/Contemptor Dread = T8 2+/5++
Scout Sentinel = T5 3+ armor
These are just a few proposals that I think would work.

And if Missile launchers will cause D6 or D3 wounds then ya I'm for Missile Launchers able to wreck APCs again.

----

I wonder if the game would have another point reduction across the board (which seems to be the trend from what I can gather for each edition change) or perhaps a more required point increase.


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## neferhet

Bah. i agree that blasts need some rehash (small blasts, mainly) but to remove completely them is just removing an important aspect of movement and one of the last sempblance of tactics in the game.
About the vehicle stuff @Fallen mantions, i hope they keep it simple like that and remove the damage table, but if they do like AoS (where a damaged vehicle/monster changes stat line 3 or 4 times) it would become an absolute nightmare where you could never remember your stat line after 2 firing phases. Not really a simplification. But i digress.
Also, point reduction?? Hell i hope no! In fact in my group we are musing about returning to third etition and its lack of giant goofy 600+ pts centrepieces and higher unit costs.


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## DkMiBuch

Haskanael said:


> so basicly you behave like that towards people that play AoS, good to know :grin:


Exactly! The obvious irony is why it's funny 
Might be a cultural thing. We danes are kinda weird humour wise (or perhaps it's just me!)



neferhet said:


> I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but since i'm currently i'm under the influence of alchohol, i can totally tell you that you misread the Reanimation protocol rules. :grin:


About enjoying rules discussion, I actually wasn't being sarcastic.
I like that I discover new things in almost every game I play.
Granted, I only really get to play like once a month if I'm lucky.


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## Khorne's Fist

It's odd that they are talking about getting rid of templates and introducing a D6 damage system, when only a few months ago a system written by GW legends Cavatore and Priestly has just abandoned that system and introduced templates for 2nd Ed Bolt Action, because they believed, because of feedback received from the players that it was too overpowered and led to an over-representation of those units on the table.


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## DkMiBuch

Khorne's Fist said:


> It's odd that they are talking about getting rid of templates and introducing a D6 damage system, when only a few months ago a system written by GW legends Cavatore and Priestly has just abandoned that system and introduced templates for 2nd Ed Bolt Action, because they believed, because of feedback received from the players that it was too overpowered and led to an over-representation of those units on the table.


That's a good point, Mr. Fist.

I'd have to see the concrete rule suggestion here, before I can form an opinion.
My first thought is, don't take away my templates!

Would it be something like d6 for large blasts and flamer templates, d3 for small blasts?


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## Haskanael

DkMiBuch said:


> Exactly! The obvious irony is why it's funny
> Might be a cultural thing. We danes are kinda weird humour wise (or perhaps it's just me!)


nah, I like it, I'm much the same way :laugh:


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## gen.ahab

1) No codices? Calling bullshit, but I wouldn't throw a fit if that were so. 

2) If it works for boltaction then it will work for 40k.

3) Less War Thunder and more World of Tanks. Not super happy about that, but it won't kill me. 

4) Very cool. 

5) Coooo

6) All depends on to what degree. 

7) Coooooo?

Sounds pretty good to me, on the hole.


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## Khorne's Fist

DkMiBuch said:


> Would it be something like d6 for large blasts and flamer templates, d3 for small blasts?


A light, medium and heavy howitzer used to do 1d6, 2d6, and 3d6 hits respectively. It meant that it didn't matter how far apart you spaced your unit, you took all the hits you rolled, and whole units were lifted off the table in one go.

The introduction of templates has intrinsically changed how you deploy and move your units now, making you think that little bit more before you act.


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## neferhet

Khorne's Fist said:


> The introduction of templates has intrinsically changed how you deploy and move your units now, making you think that little bit more before you act.


Precisely what AoS removed.
>


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## Khorne's Fist

gen.ahab said:


> 2) If it works for boltaction then it will work for 40k.


It didn't really work, which is why they changed it in 2nd Ed.


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## gen.ahab

Khorne's Fist said:


> It didn't really work, which is why they changed it in 2nd Ed.


I'll take your word on that, considering I've never actually managed to get my Rangers painted for a game. :crying:


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## Khorne's Fist

It's dropped. 



> New Edition
> 
> Marking the 30 year anniversary of the setting, this latest incarnation of the game promises to be the best yet. For existing gamers, this edition represents a fresh start. With a sleek core rules set that is still recognisably the game we know and love, it allows you to play more games in less time and fully supports open, narrative and matched play. This is the game you have asked for. This is the best Warhammer 40,000 ever.







https://www.warhammer-community.com...n-of-warhammer-40000-your-questions-answered/


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## Khorne's Fist

Is my army still valid?
Yes, it certainly is! You’ll still be able to use your army in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. All current armies will be supported with new rules.

Can I still use all my models?
Yes. Every Warhammer 40,000 miniature we sell today will be usable in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. What’s more, they’ll be supported with new rules, which will be available from the get go in handy, low-cost books.

Even Forge World models?
Yes, even all of your Warhammer 40,000 Forge World models**.

Wait, did you guys blow up the universe?
Nope. This is very much still the Warhammer 40,000 setting you know and love. Now, that’s not to say we won’t see the story advance – there’s some pretty epic stuff ahead! You can certainly expect to see the story arcs that began in the recent Gathering Storm campaign books continue to unfold with plenty of exciting developments to look forward to…

How can I get the rules?
We’re going to make it easier than ever to get your hands on the rules and start playing. The core rules for the game will be free, and you’ll have several options on how you get your hands on the full rulebook. Watch this space for more.

Have you dumbed down 40K?
Not at all. We’ve made it easier for new people to enter and get to grips with the basics. At the same time, we’ve made sure you can add as much depth and complexity as you like – there’s some fantastic new gameplay elements coming. What we’ve done is reexamine every aspect of the game, and made plenty of improvements, many based on the gaming community’s feedback and suggestions. If you play today, this game is recognisably still Warhammer 40,000.

What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soon. If you do want to pick any up, now’s the time – as all of the great hobby content and background information will be as valid as ever.

What’s in the new starter box?
A new starter box? That’d be exciting! I guess we’d fill it with some awesome new miniatures… (come on, we can’t spoil all the surprises for you!)

Are you getting rid of points?
Not at all. There will be a full points system, for use in matched play – one of three ways to play covered in the rulebook.

What do you mean “3 ways to play”?
We realise that people like to play Warhammer 40,000 in different ways. 3 broad systems are covered in the new edition: 1) Open play is the most flexible, and easiest to get started with, allowing you to use any miniatures you like. 2) Narrative play is where you can refight the iconic battles of the 41st Millennium, or create your own campaigns and sagas. 3) Matched play is designed for more balanced and competitive games, ideal for gaming clubs, leagues and tournaments. However you want to enjoy playing Warhammer 40,000, there will be rules for that.

Why should I not just stick with current Warhammer 40,000?
This is the version of Warhammer 40,000 you’ve been asking for. We’ve listened to your feedback, and we really believe that this is the best Warhammer 40,000 has ever been.

Will the rules be updated annually (ala, the General’s Handbook)?
What a great idea! We’ve had such a fantastic response to our community-led approach with the Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules updates that we’re committed to doing the same for Warhammer 40,000. You’ll be able to submit your questions and queries on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page and we’ll make sure we continue to evolve the game as feedback rolls in.

I haven’t played 40K in a while…
Welcome back! The new Warhammer 40,000 is easier to learn and quicker to play, but still has all the tactical, strategic and narrative depth you could want from a game set in the incredibly rich setting of the 41st Millennium. It’s going to be easier than ever to get started, and more fun than ever to master.

Why should I trust you?
Come on! This is New Games Workshop™

Seriously though, everything we’re talking about now is just an extension of all the community engagement work we’ve been doing over this last year and a half. We’ve learned a lot from you guys and gals, and we’ve tried really hard to make sure everything you’ve asked for is included. And if we’ve missed something? Drop us a line on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page and let us know. We’ll make sure your requests are given proper consideration.

Where can I find out more?
We’ll be running daily articles on the run up to release on warhammer-community.com. Every aspect of the new edition will be covered, from rules, to new miniatures and advancements in the setting.

I love it. I want it. When can I have it!
Really soon. You’ll be playing the new Warhammer 40,000 this year.

We’ll let you know when we have more news on an exact release date. Stay posted.
For the latest news, follow us on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page, or subscribe to our newsletter.

What do I do now?
Now’s the time to start getting your army ready.

With the addition of 3 ways to play, there are now more ways to build your collection than ever before. Open play frees you from all constraints, so now’s the time to just pick a model you’ve always wanted and paint it up. For you narrative players, why not start theming your collection around your favourite battle? Just like many of you, we want our armies to be fighting fit for matched play in the new edition. That’s why you’ll be able to read daily articles on the Warhammer Community site that will tell you all about the new rules, great units to include and tactics for every army.

*The edition’s not even out and you guys have an FAQ – how times have changed!

**A few of you might be wondering how the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 affects Forge World’s Horus Heresy rules and army lists. Well, for the moment, it won’t! You can carry on using the existing Warhammer 40,000 ruleset for your Horus Heresy games.


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## scscofield

Those new codexes better be dirt cheap if they aren't free like the core rules.


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## Shandathe

I really, REALLY wish they had included page counts on the core rules and full rules.


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## scscofield

Core: 2.5 if you count the 2 page photo spread
Full: 3002.5 if you count the 3002 page photo spreads. (limited collector ed with GW staff sperm stains signed on each cover costs 9 grand more)


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## Roganzar

scscofield said:


> Core: 2.5 if you count the 2 page photo spread
> Full: 3002.5 if you count the 3002 page photo spreads. (limited collector ed with GW staff sperm stains signed on each cover costs 9 grand more)


"Limited Edition" is a strong word. They'll be spunking all over the place and for a while with this.

My favorite is;
"Why should I trust you?
Come on! This is New Games WorkshopTM" 
There's a lot going against that line. Also, broke out snickering when I read that. We shall see if you deserve our trust GW. We shall see.

If the rules are as good and sleek as they're promising, and we all hope, than GW will have earned some good will credit.
I very much approve of the core rules being free. It's a model used to good effect with other games. Warmachine/Hoards and the latest D&D edition are doing this and it's working really well. So, step one is good GW.


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## scscofield

Looks like templates are getting discontinued also...


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## DaisyDuke

But still no date confirmed.... soon....


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## scscofield

Watch them toss all the various factions into the blender and spit out:

Imperuim Super Friends
Elf Super Friends
Chaos Evil Super Friends
Uhhh the other random Xenos Junior Varsity uhhhh... Cool....Things!


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## Roganzar

scscofield said:


> Looks like templates are getting discontinued also...


Or possibly replacing them. Its possible, slim possibility, that they are just discontinuing that set of them. I doubt it because GW but on the other hand making a new version of a thing is a total GW move.


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## Roganzar

scscofield said:


> Watch them toss all the various factions into the blender and spit out:
> 
> Imperuim Super Friends
> Elf Super Friends
> Chaos Evil Super Friends
> Uhhh the other random Xenos Junior Varsity uhhhh... Cool....Things!


Yup did that already. 
https://warhammer40000.com/setting/explore-the-factions/#armies-of-the-imperium
Three "Factions" are Imperium, Chaos and Xenos.
Imperium is very padded out with 6 Astartes (Space Marines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Deathwatch) then Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Mechanicus, Imperial Agents and Knights.
Chaos getting the stinky end of the stick again, has Daemons, Marines, Death Guard and Thousand Sons.
Xenos (wooo catch-all), gets pointy eared padding with Craftworlds, Harlequins, Dark Eldar, Ynnari, Tyrannids, Genestealer cults, Orks, Necron and Tau.
Xenos get a cult group in their faction but we can't have a Chaos Cultist group in the Chaos faction? Bah, bad show GW. Bad show.:angry:


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## scscofield

Yeah the ally matrix pretty much, but what I was suggesting is they do away with the sepeate armies and make them mass groups. There wouldn't be allies, it would just be the big factions combined.


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## Roganzar

scscofield said:


> Yeah the ally matrix pretty much, but what I was suggesting is they do away with the sepeate armies and make them mass groups. There wouldn't be allies, it would just be the big factions combined.


I like that better.
Doesn't really make sense to have Tyrannids ally with anyone, whatsoever.


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## Shandathe

They've switched out templates before, the set before the current white semi-transparent one was bright green as I recall. However, I'm having a horrible suspicion that they're gone for good and the days of actually having to take care how you maneuver a unit are over.

Because nobody needs a game with a high skill cap, amiright?


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## Battman

Wow just by looking at some of these has the great GW rules, group come to the side of the awesome minitures free core rules? 

Annoyingly need new codexs but always up for a change. 

Look forward to it coming out as it does.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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## DaisyDuke

It's a shame if they go, positioning a template to maximum coverage of your target, to then watch it deviate to nothing is an iconic piece of 40k to me. But there'll still be used to play shadow war Armageddon in my neck of the woods. 
As long as I can use my models and throw down some jive and dice it's all good 😊


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## Haskanael

DaisyDuke said:


> It's a shame if they go, positioning a template to maximum coverage of your target, to then watch it deviate to nothing is an iconic piece of 40k to me. But there'll still be used to play shadow war Armageddon in my neck of the woods.
> As long as I can use my models and throw down some jive and dice it's all good 😊


or having it deviate to your own unit as you figured the risk of a close up shot with a large blast was a good idea


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## Serpion5

Well, if I was afraid of spending money I wouldn't have stuck with the hobby. 

As for the new rules... Well I'm gonna reserve judgement on them until I've played the game with them. People have bitched about every edition of the game since I entered the hobby back during 4th, and personally I've found 7th to be the best version since then.


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## Khorne's Fist

Sadly I will not be available to watch this live, but some of you might be. If you have any questions head over to fb and put them up on their page.


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## Shandathe

No Facebook here, but I'll keep an ear on the stream and try to summarize the answers for people.


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## Shandathe

[email protected]#$%# well, the assholes are ONLY streaming on Facebook rather than on Twitch, so I get a Facebook login prompt after 5 seconds and it stops the stream 10 seconds later, so this isn't workable for me.


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## Shandathe

But stuff picked up so far: Everything can hurt everything (fear the lasgun, you horrible Land Raider?) and no more templates. 

I don't even want to listen anymore.

Welcome to Age of Guilliman.


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## Brother Lucian

Bell of Lost Souls posted a transcript:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/04/40k-live-faq-round-up.html

One thing I noticed that should make people happy:



*What about the folks that just purchased books and codexes? Those are all invalidated!*
 Yes – if you still have your proof of purchase, you can contact GW Customer support for vouchers (time limit of 8 weeks).


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## scscofield

From the link: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/04/40k-live-faq-round-up.html


http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Live-FAQ-Warhammer-8th.jpg




Did you miss the Live Q&A ? We got you covered. 
Games Workshop just had a long chat via a Facebook Live Video. We know lots of folks might not of been able to watch due to the time or because you’re at work so we took a bunch of notes for you! Enjoy:
*Q&A Summary*



*Was the info released at Adepticon about Movement Stats coming back, Chargers striking first and Morale Tests real? *
 Yes. Armor save modifiers are coming back, Movement stats are back, chargers will strike first (more on that later), and Morale tests are going to work in a similar manner as AoS.


*Vehicles & Armor Values? *
 No more Armor Value for Vehicles. All models will basically have the same stat line. That means Vehicles will have a Damage Table tailored to each vehicle. As the vehicles take damage they loose effectiveness – possibly lower BS, attacks, etc.
Everyone can hurt Everyone!


*Will army play styles change?*
 They have tried to keep the play styles of armies similar and used this edition change to help reset and refocus those archetypes in a re-inforcing manner.


*Is the Game still a D6 system?*
 Yes.


*What’s the typical Game length (time wise)? *
 For a 1500 point game, shooting for a 90 minute game.


*Narrative gaming support? How?*
 Yes – lots of support. 3 ways to play in mind – New warzones, campaigns, supplements will “have a home” in 8th.


*Will every model currently out will have rules?*
 Yes! “All In” with model rules, including scenery, monsters, etc.


*Command Points – how will we generate them?*
 They will help reflect the army selection & play style. In matched play, EVERY army will be battle-forged. 14 different Force Org charts for army composition. The way you build your army impacts how many you can end-up with.


*Command Points – what do they do?*
 On a very high-level, they do things like give you re-rolls. There are “Generic” abilities and there will be army specific rules when the new codexes come out. One of the Generic abilities will allow you to interrupt charge phase of your opponent.


*New Codexes?*
 Yes! Codexes are not going away, but they will come at a later date.


*Army Construction – How will that work?*
  Here is an example of 3 Force Org Charts – there will be 14 at the start and they (GW) think that no matter what type of army you have you’ll be able to build one that matches a Force Org Chart.


*Templates?*
 Templates are going away!


*How often can we use Command Points?*
 One per phase. They will be a limited resource.


*How did you test this edition?*
 GW reached out to several groups, notably they spoke with several of the big Tournament Organizers in the US for testing and feedback. That includes our buddies at Frontline Gaming, Adepticon, and NOVA. They said, “Most thoroughly we’ve ever tested.” And they have also taken in lots of community feedback though all the various forums, social media, etc.


*How will we get the rules?*
 Day 1 New Rules! Five books on Day One – rules for everyone with Points, too! Digital and Physical. Everything you need to start playing will be out day one for all armies.


*Expansions like Cities of Death?*
 Yes, will be part of the game. More ideas on the way way – more narrative supplements.


*How about Broken Units (a la Riptide)?*
 Most balanced edition with the most robust testing. Hopefully their won’t be any “broken” units.


*Match Play regular updates?*
 Yes! Much like the General’s Handbook, annual update for rules/points.


*Fan Interaction?*
 Interactive Forum Coming as well social media feedback.


*Free Rules? How will we get them?*
 Digital copies available and printed verisons at FLGS and Games Workshop Stores.


*Warhammer 40k App for list building?*
 Working on it, not available for launch but it’s on the way!


*Specific Tournament Rules?*
 No, but core rules have guidance for folks who want to run tournaments – “just suggestions.”


*Unit Rebalancing?*
 Everything is now a legitimate choice. Even pyrovores. Everything can hurt everything else because of the new types of profiles.


*How long was this game edition in development?*
 “A Long Time.”


*What were your Top 3 goals for this edition?*
 1 – Make a game that works for all 3 ways to play
2 – Make sure the game holds-up to a competitive play
3 – Make it more accessible to everyone from new players, to fans of the lore, to hard core hobbyists.
They really wanted to take in as much feedback as possible and incorporate the feed back to what everyone was asking for.


*Release Date?*
 “This Year.” More news on that later – just not today.


*More cool stuff at Warhammer Fest?*
 Yes.


*Will you cut down the number of models that are available and “streamline” the armies?*
 No – All models are sticking around!


*How will points work?*
 Two different types of points!
1 – Powerlevel points – this is a basic, very broad brush gauge for a unit. It’s designed for Narrative play so you can have an idea of how powerful your army is and play in a more relaxed way.
2 – Matched Play Points – this is the very granular option. Weapons, options, etc. all have points costs – like the current system.


*What about the factions? Noticed on the new 40k site that Astra Militarum was missing – what gives?*
 The website is more narrative focused – it’s an intro site for new players and a “getting started” place. Astra Militarum is still around and so are the Skitarii, they aren’t going anywhere.


*Will there be new factions?*
 Yes. and possibly some new ones at launch…


*What about Monstrous Creatures?*
 Yep, they are moving to the Damage Table like vehicles!


*How will stats work? Str, Toughness, Wounds?*
 Again, everything can hurt everything! Stats are NOT capped at 10 anymore. Andy commented that when he played his first game, he really felt like the weapons did what they were supposed to – everything felt “right” when he played (in terms of how weapons worked).


*What sized games are supported?*
 Both Match and Narrative games – 1000 points up to what every you want.


*What’s the Highest Wound Count Model?*
 “The Knights are up there, but I don’t want to say and be wrong later…”


*What about Allies?*
 Yes, allies are still around. But they work slightly different. Because the game is moving to the “Keyword” system the typical Death Star units/combos are not going to work. Your special abilities will only transfer to the units with the correct Keywords. This should cut down on the shenanigans.
The Force Org still supports allies but that will cut into command points…


*Will Close-Combat be viable?*
 “Absolutely” – due to the change with chargers striking first and everyone being able to hurt everyone close combat should be a viable part of the game.


*Is Medusa Gone? It wasn’t on the new map!*
  It’s not gone! The map was just really crowded.


*What about Forge World Rules?*
 Those will be available in the same way.


*What about the folks that just purchased books and codexes? Those are all invalidated!*
 Yes – if you still have your proof of purchase, you can contact GW Customer support for vouchers (time limit of 8 weeks).


----------



## Shandathe

Okay, having read more of the FAQ vid from various sources, I'm back to cautiously optimistic. Emphasis on the caution.


----------



## Roganzar

Thanks @scscofield for putting that up. 
It makes an interesting read and I will be waiting till it comes out before making an actual opinion.


----------



## scscofield




----------



## Khorne's Fist

I'm probably reading too much into it, but I think there might be a hint as to the next campaign books in here. 



> Today, we take a look at the three distinct ways to play that will be covered in the new edition.
> 
> Warhammer 40,000 is a vast setting that literally spans a galaxy of possibilities.
> 
> We know that there are loads of you out there who play in many different ways – some of you love to use your favourite models in casual games against friends, some of you want ways to refight the iconic battles and act out the epic rivalries of the 41st Millennium, and some of you want a competitive game that you can play at local clubs or at tournaments.
> 
> The new Warhammer 40,000 has something for all of you.
> 
> There are, of course, limitless ways to play Warhammer 40,000, and everyone’s preference will be slightly different. What the new edition gives you is three flexible starting points to help you create the game you want – open, narrative or matched.
> 
> Open play is the most flexible system – where you can use any models you like in a game to achieve any sort of objective you like. You can play archetypal scenarios like raids, ambushes or desperate last-stands with “What If” themes, set up races between vehicles, or even use the classic “who would win in a fight between…” as a catalyst for a game with undeniable appeal.
> 
> This is also the type of game that lends itself best to team play or multiplayer battles, and is especially useful for those just getting started with Warhammer 40,000 or as a way to try out new models as you are building your way to a larger force. If there is some sort of challenge that can’t be fit into a narrative or matched play game, open play is where it’s at.
> 
> Narrative play is just what it sounds like – fighting battles based on stories from the far future, whether from campaign books, Black Library novels or legends of your own creation. Perhaps they even form part of an ongoing campaign, or are set in the notorious war zones of the 41st Millennium, such as Armageddon, Cadia, Fenris, Baal… the list goes on. Playing games that tell part of a larger story is what narrative play is all about.
> 
> Suggestions for missions that can form the basis of open or narrative play games (including the return of the classic Warhammer 40,000 battle “Meatgrinder”), as well as suggestions on historical and campaign games are all available in the new edition.
> 
> Matched play is the final type of play-style. This system will be very familiar to those of you who play Warhammer 40,000 regularly now. Like the game today, it is based around one of two mission tables of 6 possible battles – either Eternal War, or Maelstrom of War, though the missions briefs have all been updated a little.
> 
> Your armies for matched play games will always be Battle-forged (more on that in future) and use points values to help ensure a balanced game. Rules and points for every single model in the game are being realigned for the new edition – so expect to see many units that might have been absent from competitive play make a welcome return. Army selection is still quite open though, and if you have a Battle-forged army for the current edition of Warhammer 40,000, you’ll be able to build a Battle-forged army for the new edition as well.
> 
> Matched play also has a few extra rules that impact the game itself, mostly to do with things like deploying reserves, summoning or generating reinforcements, using psychic powers and limiting how often you can use your army’s Stratagems (more on those soon).
> 
> 
> 
> The matched play section also has some recommendations for event organisers: things like how much time certain sizes of game will take to play and what size board they would typically be played on – for example, a game of 1,000-2,000 points takes just over 2 hours and will be played on a 6’x4′ board.
> 
> So, however you like to play Warhammer 40,000 – the new edition of the game is for you.
> 
> Thanks for reading folks.


----------



## Battman

Hmmm. Hmmm. Hmmm. 

Don't quite know what to think about all of that... but still interested supose well get hard facts soon enough, once the game releases. 

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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## Battman

Actually interesting thoughtm just checked my email and the codexs are going on clearance. Has GW prime ever done this? I know most local store did to move stock, but just a little surprised. Maybe New GW is leading the way with a new way of thinking....

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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## scscofield

They are dumping thier stock

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Roganzar

Well, I'm hoping to remain optimistic and so far so good.
Based on GWs turnaround times recently we should be seeing the rules within about 3 months.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

I wonder is the 8 week limit on refunds for buying a codex recently is from the date this was announced, or from the date the new edition drops? I bought the DW codex in the middle of last month.


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## Entarion

Khorne's Fist said:


> I wonder is the 8 week limit on refunds for buying a codex recently is from the date this was announced, or from the date the new edition drops? I bought the DW codex in the middle of last month.


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/24/just-bought-a-codex-dont-worry-weve-got-you-covered/

"You can claim a voucher no matter where you bought your codex and/or rulebook, as long as you have your proof of purchase and it’s dated between the 25th of February 2017 and the 22nd of April 2017."

Seems to be not applicable for supplements.


----------



## Gret79

Oh good. fixed to hit and wound rolls :/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/


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## Gret79

Oops, meant just to hit rolling now I can't remember how to edit the previous post


----------



## Brother Dextus

*https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/*

*Warhammer 40,000: Unit Profiles*










Today is a big one guys – we’re talking about how profiles are going to work in the new edition.
The profiles for the current version of the game have been a part of Warhammer 40,000 for over a decade now, and for the most part they worked pretty well, though there were always a few anomalies or things that didn’t work quite as you’d expect.
In the new edition, the rules team were keen to have the profile work harder – to better distinguish between the different units so that, for example, Eldar will run faster than Guardsmen, and Hormagaunts run faster than both.








One big change is vehicles. These now use the same profile system as everyone else. As you’ll see though, their stat lines are much above what you might expect from a standard infantry trooper. Wounds, for example, are not capped at 10, so don’t be surprised if you see larger vehicles like Land Raiders and Imperial Knights with dozens of wounds. 
This means that there is no differentiation between monsters and vehicles, so you now have a standard system to compare between, for example, a Carnifex vs a Dreadnought. Speaking of Carnifexes, large monsters like them also have a lot more wounds now. There are also no Super Heavy Vehicle rules, as such. With the stats going above 10, the system is now an increasing scale, which means models that previously fell just shy of super-heavy status, the Gorkanaut for example, can now punch at the appropriate weight, and become much more survivable.
So, without further ado – let’s look at some stats!
Here, we have 4 examples from the most iconic Warhammer 40,000 army – the Space Marines.







You’ll see that the stats are still recognisably Warhammer 40,000, but with just a few changes. We’ve gained a Movement stat in exchange for a Initiative stat. With charging units now striking first, movement and co-ordination of your assault army becomes a big factor. You can also see that WS and BS are now standard rolls (Ballistic Skill sort of always was), though you can expect modifiers to both of these stats from in-game effects.
Strength and Toughness are still with us, and still use an opposing value principle (so much higher Strength will still wound on 2+, low Strength will wound on a 6+), and these aren’t capped at 10 any more either. Wounds is a big one. Expect a lot of models to get more of these. As you can see here, the Terminator has twice what he has now, and Guilliman has more too.








Don’t worry though – stuff still dies quickly, with powerful weapons dishing out multiple damage with each hit – but you will, as always, need to shoot the right gun at the right target to get the best effects.
So there you have it guys.
Lots of new stuff in there.
Take a day to digest all that, and we’ll be back tomorrow with some info on the weapon stat lines you’ll be using in the new edition.


----------



## Brother Dextus

I think thats actually pretty good tbh.


----------



## Roganzar

I like how this looks. Straight forward to understand and you only have to consult one other chart, (to wound).
Now, I want to see the Knight stat line.


----------



## scscofield

I might actually field vehicles and walkers again with these changes.


----------



## Serpion5

Initiative value is gone. It's all well and good to say charging units strike first, but what about subsequent rounds of combat? Makes me wonder if being locked in combat will be a thing anymore, or if it's gonna be a case of owning player dictates charges each round.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

> Warhammer TV is back with 3 days more great content this week, including an Adepta Sororitas army making an appearance on Friday.
> 
> Join us from Wednesday over at https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer


Could this mean plastic Sisters, at long last? I vaguely remember rumours of plastic Sisters in a starter box.


----------



## Old Man78

I'm wondering how the lack of templates will work, especially I cases of partially obscured units or shielded units like knight's. L 7 for marines is a bit poo.

Like everything else I'll have to wait to see the whole thing before I claim to rage quit and run out and buy a heap of new minis and cry myself to sleep in a fit of self loathing


----------



## gen.ahab

I'd like to see a more in depth explanation behind the removal of initiative besides, "we done chucked in something else."



Old Man78 said:


> L 7 for marines is a bit poo. Like everything else I'll have to wait to see the whole thing before I claim to rage quit and run out and buy a heap of new minis and cry myself to sleep in a fit of self loathing


If that thing about crumbling is right, models are going to be dropping like fudging flies.


----------



## Shandathe

Hrmm. We really need those weapon statlines, because we've already been teased with save modifiers... and if something like a Bolter makes an armour save just one point worse that Terminator is still going to die a lot quicker than he does now, two wounds or not.

Movement, they're already taking advantage of it being back by varying speeds a bit in the army, which is nice to see.

WS and BS translations seem straightforward, it's pretty much the old BS table but without having to mentally do BS-to-dice-roll.

Strength looks the same as always, Toughness OTOH... While it looks the same for the models that already had that value, I think the Dread just got a lot more vulnerable to small arms (especially if they come with a save modifier). Still, Toughness 7 is nothing to sneeze at, especially with 8 wounds backing it up. Will note that unless there's a modifier for getting shot in the back vehicle facing went the way of the dodo, and vehicle maneuvering will take less thinking and have a vastly lowered skill cap.

Attacks look unchanged, though as @Serpion5 noted I being gone might mean no more locked in combat. That would make it impossible to keep horribly dangerous shooty units (hi there Tau, Imperial Knight!) from shooting, which would make those easier to use and again lower the skill cap considerably.

Leadership obviously functions differently, so going to ignore it for now.

EDIT: As per Adepticon, Leadership now has you roll 1D6 and add the number of casualties you have taken this turn. If that value is greater than your Leadership, you take wounds equal to the difference. Seems easy enough at something like the end of a CC phase, but I don't know what else will get it triggered, or whether Guilliman's 10 Ld can be used (can he join the Tactical squad now? Can any character join ANY unit? Too much info missing).


----------



## neferhet

i do seriously hope Movement is also comprisng "speed" and thus is a sobstitute for the now missing Initiative. 
I'll love to kill vehicles with small arms fire. And i'll love to have my daemon prince of khorne be hit in melee at 3+ by everything in a marine army. 
let's see where it goes. (probably switzerland, to be euthanized)


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## Serpion5

The thing that you panicky folks need to keep in mind is that these guys have been building this system based on gamer feedback for some time now and have been testing things as they go. I have no doubt that the meta will change quite drastically because of this, but that is no reason for anyone to ragequit. 

It will simply be a case of learning new tricks, finding new list builds to run and figuring out the new mechanics to get a feel for how new games will flow. Crying over something like "Oh small arms fire can kill my tanks now" just seems like whining, but then again I'm a tyranid player, so small arms fire has ALWAYS been able to kill my tanks...  

So suck it up, losers. :taunt:


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## neferhet

Serpion5 said:


> The thing that you panicky folks need to keep in mind is that these guys have been building this system based on gamer feedback for some time now and have been testing things as they go.
> 
> Yes...well..this actually scares me. The loudest minority will be heard. The game will be a clone of age of sigmar with ideas coming from internet guys. Cool. Are you not scared? The same thing happened for D&D 5.0 (in a more organized fashion and with a greater intent though) and the result is honestly...well...not bad, but nothing to cheer about. Listening to the web guys is good...to a certain degree. GW stopped working and started feeding us our own ideas. Which is terrible, imo. 'cause our ideas sucks, mostly.
> 
> Crying over something like "Oh small arms fire can kill my tanks now" just seems like whining, but then again I'm a tyranid player, so small arms fire has ALWAYS been able to kill my tanks...
> 
> So suck it up, losers. :taunt:
> 
> Sucks to be Tyranid!! :laugh: i can't agree. as always before, to cure a scratch, they cause a wound. AV was a nice mechanic to keep vehicles above infantry. You needed special weapons to kill them. The problem was not AV system: it was the power creep and the proliferation of str 6+ basic weapons along the codices.
> So no. They simply changed problem. before it was: "my tanks can be oneshotted", now it will be "your bolters blew my tank"... same old shit.
> 
> Plus, i hate fixed to hit in melee. this is an issue in AoS, to me. It just penalize elite armies (unless they are uber power and costly centerpieces models...) and favors spamming hordes of shitty models. Wich is good, to acertain degree.
> 
> We will see. In any case, i'll never ragequit. 3rd edition BRB are still floating around the net :wink:


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## Old Man78

Never fear, in 4 years time 9th edition will be the best version ever and we can rage quit all over again!


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## Khorne's Fist

Truescale marines v Deathguard in the starter?
?


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## scscofield

From the link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weapons/





Yesterday we took a look at the profiles of units in the new Warhammer 40,000. But that is, of course, only half the story. The other half is the weapons they wield. Like units, these have had some pretty big changes, but are still recognisably the weapons you know and love.
Let’s take a look at three classic examples: the iconic boltgun, flamer and lascannon:
 

Damage is a big change. This stats effectively lets a single hit deliver multiple wounds to one model. So, as we can see, the bolter does a single would per hit, and so is optimised for shooting models that have a single wound themselves, whereas the lascannon, one of the most powerful man-portable weapons in the game, kicks out D6 damage, allowing it to blast chunks off large vehicles and monsters and kill light vehicles and characters in a single hit. Against something like Guardsmen or Orks though, this formidable damage output will be wasted.








The AP system is changing too. Rather than a binary yes/no on saves, the new Warhammer 40,000 uses modifiers – the lascannon will punch easily through power armour, while the bolter and flamer are, again, best deployed against less durable, more numerous targets.
Lastly, you can see that the flamer no longer uses a template. However, when in range, it causes D6 hits that do not have to roll to hit, and this applies even against units of a single model – this can be devastating, especially when used in large numbers <cough-Burna-Boyz-cough>, trust us when we say we may be entering the age of the flamer as the go-to special weapon of infantry squads the galaxy over – let the galaxy burn!
   

The rules team behind the new game have taken the opportunity to rebalance a lot of the weapons in the game, and with the new armour modifier system and removal of the cap of 10 on Strength values, we’ve made sure that every weapon has its use on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium. D weapons, for example, are gone, and instead there is a scalable Strength and damage that matches the effectiveness you’d expect from every weapon.
So there you go.
We’ll be back tomorrow when we look at movement.


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## gen.ahab

Sounds like it's a good thing I modeled all of my Space Wolves during 5th edition.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Old Man78

Really like the multiple damage put out by heavy weapons, it makes sense, however looking at flamers the damage output makes no sense, imagine landing a 10 man assault squad with 2 flamers in front of someone and rolling snake eyes, I think retaining the template would have made far more sense. As for taking wounds off tanks and monstrous creatures, will they lose capability as they lose wounds, I hope so. 

So far I'm not panicking, but I'm beginning to fear this edition could be more dumbed down than stream lined


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## Roganzar

Old Man78 said:


> Really like the multiple damage put out by heavy weapons, it makes sense, however looking at flamers the damage output makes no sense, imagine landing a 10 man assault squad with 2 flamers in front of someone and rolling snake eyes, I think retaining the template would have made far more sense. As for taking wounds off tanks and monstrous creatures, will they lose capability as they lose wounds, I hope so.
> 
> So far I'm not panicking, but I'm beginning to fear this edition could be more dumbed down than stream lined


They've said monstrous creatures/vehicles will lose capacity as they suffer more and more damage. Like in Age of Sigmar rules. As for the flamer doing d6 within 8" seems pretty powerful but it doesn't reduce saves. So I'm looking forward to seeing the save values for the big stuff. Though on a thematic point, filling a tank with burning promethium seems a good way to keep it from being effective.
Also, Salamanders are looking more effective, in theory, at the moment.


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## Shandathe

Agreed with @Old Man78 regarding templates. I could have supported a random dice roll for Blast weapons, as scatter was unreliable as it was even if it eliminated the (occasionally AWESOME) possibility of hitting something else entirely. The Template though... that's skill. Not so much in placement, but in maneuvering to get those many hits - even if you were still rolling to wound the lack of chance gave you a weapon you could actually RELY on working. So that's a definite on the skill cap getting lowered some for this edition, though the skill decreases noted in my previous notes still have the option of not being there.

The good news, they've kept the AP modifiers in check. With anti-infantry weapons (even the bolter) being AP 0, that's good news for Guardsmen, and even more for Orks and Dark Eldar throughout the galaxy. Their players might actually get to roll some saves now - with the average infantry weapon being S4 AP5 and even the humble Lasgun sporting an AP6 they were effectively coming to battle naked.


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## Roganzar

It seems they decided, after debating the concerns I'm sure, to cut all templates. I don't know if this will turn out to be good or bad until the rules hit and people are playing. As it sits now, they could have kept the flamer template and dropped the others, and that would be fine. 

I can understand the thought behind dropping the template here. There would be time wasted while the flamer template was being positioned. The 8" D6 hits would speed things up and keep the game moving. Keeping things moving is important to a lt of games. Hell, pacing is important in every type of game. 

I'm truly curious about their claim of a 1500 point game taking about 2 hours. It's been awhile since I've gotten to play but I remember those taking closer to 4 hours, 3 maybe if you both know the rules well and nothing has to be looked up.


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## neferhet

Random wounds inflicted has always been a problem to me. i shoot you with a lascannon and its all good until i start rolling ones. Then its a glorified bolter.
In AoS i simply stopped using cannons and artillery in general for this very reason. 1d6 wounds means that you will cause 1-2 wounds A LOT of times in a game. and since cannons are not cheap, well... i'd rather be on the fence of instant death :grin:
Quick fix: 
D3 wounds become 2
D6 wounds become D3+2
GW people are not mathematicians, clearly. (nor do i, but i play the game...unlike them it seems >)

Also, d6 hits from flamers... cool. until you start rolling snake eyes against a horde of bunched up cultists. (see quick fix above)
Just like AoS however, positioning become useless, outmanouvering become useless, hitting alternative facings in vehicles become useless. Wh40k was never a game of true tactics but still...there were some cool mechanics to use and gain an edge with cunning manouvres. Like in AoS, it's going away, in favour of a more direct approach. We will see. I will be waiting more stuff. Also, fuck GW for inalidating lots of codices. Now i understand why they chucked in our throat so many codices in such small time: they needed to do it before it was too late!


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## Old Man78

I'm beginning to think there should be a 2 tier system for 40k. Tier 2 a simple quick and easy way to play for novices and kids up to 12. Then tier 1, Warhammer 40k tactical, a game that involves strategy and forethought. 

To be honest, now that you don't have to worry about troop spacing and vehicle facing, rather than stream lining the game, makes it a bit lazy. Now I KNOW IT'S A FANTASY GAME, however as a tabletop WARGAME, there should be some REAL WORLD SYSTEMS, poor spacing and maneuvering should be penalised.

Now I'm quite biased on this because I'm ex military like lots of other Heretics and owe my life literally to good spacing and the fact that am too pretty to shoot at with conviction! READ FOLLOWING IN TRUMP VOICE "it's true, it's true, he is so pretty, the Taliban couldn't kill him, couldn't do it, total losers! Our military -the best in the world by the way- no problem shooting pretty people, very good at it, so true!"


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## scscofield

I think the movement and chargers attack first will still make it a don't fuck up game. I am curious at what they will do with psychic. It also looks like the have fixed the issue of non power armour units against ignores cover weapons. 

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Old Man78

scscofield said:


> I think the movement and chargers attack first will still make it a don't fuck up game. I am curious at what they will do with psychic. It also looks like the have fixed the issue of non power armour units against ignores cover weapons.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


Very true, and with heavy weapons doling out multiple damage points you would have to very careful with your armour/monstrous creature, a devastator squad with x4 las cannons putting out anything from 4-24 damage points will still soften anyones cough, so yeah I should really think before I type. Details, details, the devil is the details, can't wait to find out more


----------



## Khorne's Fist

> Movement has always been key to Warhammer 40,000 – positioning your units for optimum arcs of fire, advancing to claim objectives or just plain-old charging across the battlefield into combat!
> 
> Movement in the new edition will be very familiar to players of the game today, but the rules team have taken the opportunity to improve a few elements.
> 
> In the new edition, every model has its own Movement characteristic. This means that, rather than every model moving 6″ unless specified otherwise – things like Terminators will advance slowly and inexorably, while Harlequins leap and bound, and bikes and speeders zip across the battlefield.
> 
> Some units will have a minimum move too – this mostly applies to flyers, who can’t stop. Again, this is much like the rules today, but every flyer will have their own minimum and maximum move value, to represent the fact that swift fighters will naturally be quicker than a lumbering bomber.
> 
> Running has been rolled into the Movement phase now, too. You can “Advance” when you move by rolling a dice and adding the result to your Movement to go a bit faster at the expense of shooting.
> 
> This applies to all models – infantry, vehicles, bikes – everyone. By including this roll as part of your move, the game speeds up, as you no longer have to move models in both the Movement and Shooting phases.
> 
> Other than that, the movement rules are pretty much what you’d expect today – no moving though enemy models, unless you can fly over them, and no walking through solid walls – logical stuff.
> 
> Oh, there was one last thing.
> 
> If you’re in combat at the start of your turn, you can Fall Back by moving away from the enemy. You’ll lose the ability to advance, shoot or charge that turn, and crucially, enemies will be able to shoot at you! This does, however, open up a vast range of tactical options for armies like the Astra Militarum, who will now be able to effectively deploy in firing lines, with each row falling back from any assaults in good order (if they survived) while the unit behind them fires at the attackers. It goes both ways though – if you have a dedicated assault unit that specializes in killing infantry (like Warp Talons) your opponent will find it much harder to pin them down in combat with heavily armoured units for the entire game.
> 
> That’s a big change!
> 
> We’ll let that rattle around your brain for a day, and we’ll be back tomorrow with news about the Psychic phase.


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## neferhet

Oh, there was one last thing...


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## Serpion5

Oh, I LIKE that. :grin:


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## Khorne's Fist

Personally, the fact that charges are still random is shit. I was hoping some of the needless randomness like this would be changed. Oh well.


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## Old Man78

Don't like the running rule, rolling a dice for random extra inches is poo to be honest, running should be either double the movement distance or movement plus half


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## Roganzar

Old Man78 said:


> Don't like the running rule, rolling a dice for random extra inches is poo to be honest, running should be either double the movement distance or movement plus half


It's definitely a hold over that seems to be a part of a lot of wargames. Like its traditional to have that random extra on a charge. Your idea would make sense. Expanding on it a bit, double normally and half again over difficult terrain. That's what I'd like to see. Makes charging a more predictable option.


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## scscofield




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## Roganzar

scscofield said:


>


They only allow parody videos. No comics, that's heresy.


----------



## Einherjar667

I read.... somewhere, that this is dropping early June with a starter set including the Death Guard vs Space Marines.

Not sure how credible the source was considering I can't even recall it.


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## darkreever

Old Man78 said:


> Don't like the running rule, rolling a dice for random extra inches is poo to be honest, running should be either double the movement distance or movement plus half


You are aware that running has been in the game for a little while now right? The biggest difference now is that instead of being something you declare in the shooting phase, its declared in the movement phase. Otherwise its always been a die roll for extra movement at the cost of shooting (unless your Eldar and using battle focus.)


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## Entarion

Einherjar667 said:


> I read.... somewhere, that this is dropping early June with a starter set including the Death Guard vs Space Marines.
> 
> Not sure how credible the source was considering I can't even recall it.


3th of June (pre-order) to be precise and the content of starter should be indeed DG vs UM (with new rescaled marines)


----------



## Kreuger

darkreever said:


> You are aware that running has been in the game for a little while now right? The biggest difference now is that instead of being something you declare in the shooting phase, its declared in the movement phase. Otherwise its always been a die roll for extra movement at the cost of shooting (unless your Eldar and using battle focus.)


Running existed in 2nd edition 40k and earlier editions of fantasy precisely as some movement. Troops running (or marching the fantasy equivalent) would double their move distance at the cost of shooting that turn. 

It was a good mechanic. Much better than the "roll a die" method.


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## Old Man78

darkreever said:


> You are aware that running has been in the game for a little while now right? The biggest difference now is that instead of being something you declare in the shooting phase, its declared in the movement phase. Otherwise its always been a die roll for extra movement at the cost of shooting (unless your Eldar and using battle focus.)



Oh very aware pal, I'm just still annoyed by it, and like a Dwarf I can hold a grudge over something small. I think the random nature of it though is just a poor game mechanic


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## scscofield

I would hazard a guess that it is to help reduce 1st turn pile ins by quick armies. They can't do much to make the board size bigger at this point. I assume Calvary and other quick options are going to still be around 12 inches. If they​ had a flat move like your talking it would easily lead to 1st turn munching of units before the other side could even get a turn.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Serpion5

Kreuger said:


> Running existed in 2nd edition 40k and earlier editions of fantasy precisely as some movement. Troops running (or marching the fantasy equivalent) would double their move distance at the cost of shooting that turn.
> 
> It was a good mechanic. Much better than the "roll a die" method.


I remember the days of 7th ed Fantasy, and the group of gamers who played it precisely because they loved how predictable the game was. Fucked if I know why. Things like movement and charging were a given and the whole thing became a game of glorified chess as both players tried to get their regiments into the right spot to take each other out. Magic dice were a fixed amount and people would tailor their lists to know exactly how many dice they'd have and know in advance which lores and spells they'd use over the course of the game. Rolling dice became little more than a formality, and three out of five games could be predicted after deployment. 

Adding more random elements to the game took away that predictability, forced players to rethink strategies and have contingency plans, and this is where the bulk of WHF players in my circle quit the hobby. 

40k going to random charge distance and random psychic powers resulted in much the same thing. A bunch of people fretting and complaining that their once unbeatable army had been hit with the nerfs and they couldn't play anymore. Of course what they really meant was they couldn't auto win anymore, so naturally that meant the game had turned to utter shite. 

I love the extra elements of randomization specifically because it destroys that kind of playing.


----------



## Brother Dextus

I like random running distances. 
The mechanics work well depending on the army you play. 7th ed fantasy was too predictable, and shit.
My templars could run a bit and then run a bit more and then smash face.... or possibly fail completely and get shot up. It was a nice mechanic. What WAS lacking was some sort of mechanic to modify the result, such as D6+initiative or something.


----------



## Kreuger

Serpion5 said:


> ...I love the extra elements of randomization specifically because it destroys that kind of playing.


That's fascinating because I think we may intend similar things for very different reasons. 

I'm not a power gamer. I never was. My army lists have always been designed as good faith all-comers lists. I despise the excessive randomness because I want to rely on my army to behave consistently. If it's not reasonably consistent, how can I expect to compete reasonably with my friends? 

I very much agree with all of your descriptions of those fantasy games. I played fantasy from 4th through 6th or 7th ed, and while I enjoyed the setting the game was very broken. The problems you describe had a lot less to do with predictable movement and predictable magic powers and far more to do with poorly written rules and balance. 

Let's be honest, it IS glorified chess. All table top battle games are to one degree or another. Reliability is what separates these from a game of chance. Obviously, there are many dice rolls and many chances for things to go awry, however managing that chance is what makes the game compelling. Too little chance and we are back at chess or a fait accompli, too much and there isn't enough control and reliability for my taste. 

Circling back for a moment. Fantasy was so backwards because the close combat, the shooting, and the magic were too reliable and too powerful - not the movement. Armies were so stratified with the power of characters in combat (looking at you chaos lord), siege engines (looking at you high elf repeater bolt throwers and dwarf cannons), and wizards (looking at all of them?) 

I actually prefer picking, or even better buying psychics/ spells because then they can be properly balanced. Having both players roll to select all too often can have one player shafted while their opponent gets a deal. 

As a player who always attempted to bring scrupulously fair armies, the way I won was by savvy playing. A great deal of which came down to careful movement. I beat a number of armies designed to be rather lop sided or abusive by good generalship. A great example was a game against a good friend where we both brought warriors of chaos. I turned the game by judging my movement better. His army was built around a nigh unstoppable chaos knight charge. Which to his credit would likely have swept my main unit from the table. I maneuvered sand eyeballed the distance perfectly. He missed his charge by .75" and my ensuing counter charge shifted the game. 

If we were rolling to randomize the distance, that kind of precision can't happen. On the other hand, in the midst of combat is exactly where the randomness fits. The swirl of melee or firing at a distant enemy, those shouldn't be absolutely certain. Conceptually, there are so many more variables in combat that having a partially randomized system for interactions makes sense. (Not based on D6s so much but that's a debate for another day.)

Anyway, I'll end with this thought. I totally agree that we don't want to cater to power gamers. There is legitimate list craft that happens though as we play and refine our armies without ending up back at Hero-Hammer. I would contend that some parts of the system should be entirely reliable and others should be more random.


Edit: re Dextus





Brother Dextus said:


> I like random running distances.
> The mechanics work well depending on the army you play. 7th ed fantasy was too predictable, and shit.
> My templars could run a bit and then run a bit more and then smash face.... or possibly fail completely and get shot up. It was a nice mechanic. What WAS lacking was some sort of mechanic to modify the result, such as D6+initiative or something.


I'm curious what you found more successful about random movement compared to fixed moment? In your Templar example, it sounds like you're asking for a more consistent movement system because it was so unreliable.


----------



## neferhet

Kreuger said:


> That's fascinating because I think we may intend similar things for very different reasons.
> 
> I'm not a power gamer. I never was. My army lists have always been designed as good faith all-comers lists. I despise the excessive randomness because I want to rely on my army to behave consistently. If it's not reasonably consistent, how can I expect to compete reasonably with my friends?
> 
> I very much agree with all of your descriptions of those fantasy games. I played fantasy from 4th through 6th or 7th ed, and while I enjoyed the setting the game was very broken. The problems you describe had a lot less to do with predictable movement and predictable magic powers and far more to do with poorly written rules and balance.
> 
> Let's be honest, it IS glorified chess. All table top battle games are to one degree or another. Reliability is what separates these from a game of chance. Obviously, there are many dice rolls and many chances for things to go awry, however managing that chance is what makes the game compelling. Too little chance and we are back at chess or a fait accompli, too much and there isn't enough control and reliability for my taste.
> 
> Circling back for a moment. Fantasy was so backwards because the close combat, the shooting, and the magic were too reliable and too powerful - not the movement. Armies were so stratified with the power of characters in combat (looking at you chaos lord), siege engines (looking at you high elf repeater bolt throwers and dwarf cannons), and wizards (looking at all of them?)
> 
> I actually prefer picking, or even better buying psychics/ spells because then they can be properly balanced. Having both players roll to select all too often can have one player shafted while their opponent gets a deal.
> 
> As a player who always attempted to bring scrupulously fair armies, the way I won was by savvy playing. A great deal of which came down to careful movement. I beat a number of armies designed to be rather lop sided or abusive by good generalship. A great example was a game against a good friend where we both brought warriors of chaos. I turned the game by judging my movement better. His army was built around a nigh unstoppable chaos knight charge. Which to his credit would likely have swept my main unit from the table. I maneuvered sand eyeballed the distance perfectly. He missed his charge by .75" and my ensuing counter charge shifted the game.
> 
> If we were rolling to randomize the distance, that kind of precision can't happen. On the other hand, in the midst of combat is exactly where the randomness fits. The swirl of melee or firing at a distant enemy, those shouldn't be absolutely certain. Conceptually, there are so many more variables in combat that having a partially randomized system for interactions makes sense. (Not based on D6s so much but that's a debate for another day.)
> 
> Anyway, I'll end with this thought. I totally agree that we don't want to cater to power gamers. There is legitimate list craft that happens though as we play and refine our armies without ending up back at Hero-Hammer. I would contend that some parts of the system should be entirely reliable and others should be more random.
> 
> 
> Edit: re Dextus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious what you found more successful about random movement compared to fixed moment? In your Templar example, it sounds like you're asking for a more consistent movement system because it was so unreliable.



Man, i could not agree more. Movement and charges and double movement (run, march) SHOULD be fixed numbers, as movement should be the only part of the game we should be able to control (let me move my toy soldiers whit no problems, thank you. Also, movement is one of the last form of generalship this game has...). Let the dice roll when we are opposing something to something else (Str vs T, for instance). Also, i really loved, when charges and artillery attacks were made by declaring it BEFORE measuring. It was a cool skill to have and a cool mechanic that kept you awake all game! i fear that an extreme randomization of the game will just bring many problems, whitout fixing the powergamer / waac problems we have now.


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## Aalidakh

Kreuger said:


> I beat a number of armies designed to be rather lop sided or abusive by good generalship. A great example was a game against a good friend where we both brought warriors of chaos. I turned the game by judging my movement better. His army was built around a nigh unstoppable chaos knight charge. Which to his credit would likely have swept my main unit from the table. I maneuvered sand eyeballed the distance perfectly. He missed his charge by .75" and my ensuing counter charge shifted the game.


Those were my chaos knights, so I can confirm Kreuger's war story, here.

That was an epic game, and it hinged entirely on that moment of solid generalship. Not everything should be random.

gg, friend.


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## Brother Dextus

@Kreuger
No, the point is; sometimes you should get shot in the face and die like a bitch. Life sucks in the grimdark; even if you are a glorified church project with a sword.

EDIT: 
I think that randomness is key to a lot of 40k. Yes, its a big chess game with fancy models, but I wouldnt have it any other way. Maybe its because I started in 3rd and quickly moved to necromunda because i was 15 and had no money. The combination of the skill of movement by my delaque guys popping off rounds only to die from falling off a ladder was irritating as hell.... but that's part of it.


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## Aalidakh

Brother Dextus said:


> @Kreuger
> No, the point is; sometimes you should get shot in the face and die like a bitch. Life sucks in the grimdark; even if you are a glorified church project with a sword.
> 
> EDIT:
> I think that randomness is key to a lot of 40k. Yes, its a big chess game with fancy models, but I wouldnt have it any other way. Maybe its because I started in 3rd and quickly moved to necromunda because i was 15 and had no money. The combination of the skill of movement by my delaque guys popping off rounds only to die from falling off a ladder was irritating as hell.... but that's part of it.


Ahhh, but in Necromunda you move 4" and run or charge 8" and that is set in stone, no?

Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk


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## neferhet

Brother Dextus said:


> @Kreuger
> No, the point is; sometimes you should get shot in the face and die like a bitch. Life sucks in the grimdark; even if you are a glorified church project with a sword.
> 
> EDIT:
> I think that randomness is key to a lot of 40k. Yes, its a big chess game with fancy models, but I wouldnt have it any other way. Maybe its because I started in 3rd and quickly moved to necromunda because i was 15 and had no money. The combination of the skill of movement by my delaque guys popping off rounds only to die from falling off a ladder was irritating as hell.... but that's part of it.


Ah, the fun of faling from great heights...in mordheim i had a vampire fall from a tower...and die from it. Warband rout test failed, a won game turned into an inglorious retreat by a couple of 6's...what an EPIC moment!! :grin2:


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## Serpion5

I remember the tournaments for 40k back during 4th and 5th ed. Being able to pick and choose psychic powers and knowing exactly how far you could charge was an avenue for some armies just being unbeatable in the same way as Fantasy I described earlier. Taking away those two crucial elements of certainty levelled the playing field and made it easier for less powerful armies to have a chance. 

I remember what Blood Angels were like during 5th. Librarians and Mephiston always being able to take Wings of Sanguinius and all but guarantee their force weapons struck exactly where the player wanted them to. As a tyranid player, I was basically deploying my Hive Tyrant already knowing exactly which of my opponent's models was going to kill it. Randomization of charging and psychic powers has stopped exactly this kind of thing and put these guys on closer to equal terms. 

Besides, I have found that all it really did was cause people to shift away from psychic and combat reliant lists and focus more on ranged warfare. I've seen tyranid armies (including my own) go from being a prime close combat list into being a mobility and firepower based list with only a few combat beasts as support. People adapted to the changes last time, this time will be no different.


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## Fallen

I'm really REALLY happy with the preview of how they will handle the Psychic phase.

That single phase, almost single handedly (spelling?) removed wholesale the interest in 40k that my immediate group had.



----

It didn't help that we had some un-fun Tournament players abuse the "Summoning" ability upon the rest of us.

Well that Imperial Knight level Lords of War becoming routine "casual" appearances, and the stack-able rules of armies akin to the Necron Decurion didn't help...

----


In general I feel that the new rule set is going to get my group back into playing 40k. It at least has the greatest chance to do that.


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## scscofield

From the link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/30/new-40k-shooting-phase-apr30gw-homepage-post-4/


*New Warhammer 40,000 – Shooting Phase*



It’s a big one today folks, as we take a closer look at the Shooting phase.
This phase will be very familiar to anyone who plays today, but there have been a few tweaks and improvements to the rules.
We’ve already seen the profiles of our miniatures, so we know that we’ll be hitting on a fixed Ballistic Skill (a bit like you do now) and we’ve also seen a little about how weapons work – multiple damage from powerful weapons, and armour save modifiers, for example. Today, we look at some of the other rules of the phase.
When you select a unit to shoot, much like today, they can all fire their weapons at the enemy. You can’t shoot, however, if you Advanced this turn, or if you fell back from combat. (See our movement article for details on these.)








You also can’t shoot if there is an enemy with 1″ of you. The exception to this rule is pistols. Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat! This is going to make characters with pistols <cough-Cypher-cough> incredibly deadly up-close.

When picking a target, you won’t be able to shoot enemies that are in combat with other units, much like the current edition. However, you can fall back from combat in your Movement phase, allowing other units to fire at your opponent at the expense of your own actions this turn. Expect to see cunning generals deploying their armies in waves to take full advantage of this.
Heavy weapons are worth talking about too. These no longer snap fire if you move, and instead they have a flat -1 to hit modifier for moving units. This applies to all models with heavy weapons, vehicles included. There are a few other factors that affect hit rolls too – smoke launchers on a vehicle, for example, have the same effect of -1 to hit.








The last big change we’re going over today is cover. Currently, cover saves give a blanket save to all units, and one that only comes into effect if the shot would otherwise ignore their armour. In the new Warhammer 40,000, cover is a bonus to your armour save. Critically, this ability often only applies to certain types of unit. For example, only Infantry gain the bonus of cover from a crater.
This interaction works quite nicely with the modifiers to armour saves of certain guns, and means that when someone is trying to hide behind a wall or barricade, if your weapon has a high enough armour penetration, you can shoot them through a wall!
There are also a few weapons that ignore this bonus cover to armour effect – such as those wielded by Chaos Noise Marines and a Leman Russ’ nova cannon.
There you have it – a few of the changes you can look forward to in the Shooting phase.
We’ll be back tomorrow with news on the Charge phase.


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## scscofield

So... models locked in combat with pistols can fire said pistols......


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## Shandathe

Holy shit. Guess you still can't spell Seraphim without RAPE.

Also a giant boost for whoever else still carries a Bolt Pistol by default come the new Codex (can't be sure).


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## Kharn The Complainer

Hmm...is he implying that there will be a new type of space marine? Super space marines? This would explain any potential 'true scale' models. You can explain the size difference with old marines by stating that they are the new super space marines.


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## gen.ahab

Sounds very cool, though I think it might detract from the lore of previous marines. Regardless, if these are sort of super elites, I'm down for that.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Khorne's Fist

spunds like Custodes in SM armour to me. Interesting to see they'll be available to all chapters from the outset, by the looks of it.


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## Shandathe

I'm just wishing they'd stop making the 40K release sound less like Age of Sigmar (now with free Stormcasts! err... supermarines!)

Love the voice actor for this though.


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## Brother Lucian

Will be interesting to see what happens with these guys. What source material did Cawl make them from? Are they more resistant to chaos unlike your standard marines?


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## Entarion

Question is: Will they be available to every chapter fluff-wise or rather process creation? And why and how should I include them in my chapter and how will it change everything? I would really like to see some intriguing fluff behind them than bigger-better.

And they don't exactly look like primarch size/strength. So it is just about cloning ? To have endless amount of cloned marines instead of slow and risky recruitment process? W40k Clone Wars soon ?


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## Kharn The Complainer

Entarion said:


> And they don't exactly look like primarch size/strength. So it is just about cloning ? To have endless amount of cloned marines instead of slow and risky recruitment process? W40k Clone Wars soon ?


But why do you assume it's cloning? We could simply be seeing the sarcophagi used to make normal marines.


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## Entarion

Kharn The Complainer said:


> But why do you assume it's cloning? We could simply be seeing the sarcophagi used to make normal marines.


Maybe but scale here is obviously more huge ? Anyway, SM were the greatest defenders of humanity for over ten thousand years and now they are not enough? Will they still have any personality or will they be only war machines immune to any corruption as they should always be ? Are RG and Cawl trying to be better than Emperor ?

GW is obviously trying to do a fresh start here but I think they might destroy SM as we know them today. But it is still to early to judge. Maybe.


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## Shandathe

Theory: Rather than an improvement on the normal Space Marines, the Mechanicus has (re)discovered a way to restore the purity of geneseed, making a 10 thousand year stock of not-quite-good-enough suddenly very viable again. 

Against this theory is that we're talking about GW and it'd effectively mostly benefit those loyal legion lines that aren't Ultramarines...


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## Old Man78

The Thunder warriors were bigger and stronger than astartes but burnt out and died quickly, maybe somebody found a way to splice them and regular marines together. Or could just be more age of sigmarfication of 40k with uber marines being the storm cast equivalent


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## gen.ahab

Old Man78 said:


> The Thunder warriors were bigger and stronger than astartes but burnt out and died quickly, maybe somebody found a way to splice them and regular marines together. Or could just be more age of sigmarfication of 40k with uber marines being the storm cast equivalent


The Age of Guillimarines. I like the sound of that. :wink2:


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## Kharn The Complainer

Shandathe said:


> Against this theory is that we're talking about GW and it'd effectively mostly benefit those loyal legion lines that aren't Ultramarines...


Curing the Blood Angel ailments would be good.
Perhaps they could also genetically modify the White Scars so that GW actually writes about them once in a blue moon.


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## Entarion

*˛˘@@&}đłđ*



Old Man78 said:


> Or could just be more age of sigmarfication of 40k with uber marines being the storm cast equivalent


˄This. Cadia falls (End Times). Lost primarch rises (Sigmar). New army of supermarines is raised (Stormcasts). Crusade in the name of the Emperor begins (Age of Sigmar). I just hope that further books and novels will be good.


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## neferhet

Entarion said:


> ˄This. Cadia falls (End Times). Lost primarch rises (Sigmar). New army of supermarines is raised (Stormcasts). Crusade in the name of the Emperor begins (Age of Sigmar). I just hope that further books and novels will be good.


Yes. a bad fluff spin to justify another money grab forcing (in long term) all SM players to rebuy their models in order to field Super-Space Marines aka StormCasts. Sorry about the negativity :laugh2:
The pistol stuff is cool. i just assume you will not get an extra attack in melee by pairing it with a ccw.
All in all i'm changing my mind towards a cautious acceptation of the new system. Not the fluff and the new units...but the rules might be functional into quickening the game. (as now, time issues are my group worst concern)


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## Entarion

neferhet said:


> Yes. a bad fluff spin to justify another money grab forcing (in long term) all SM players to rebuy their models in order to field Super-Space Marines aka StormCasts. Sorry about the negativity :laugh2:


Exactly. New tactical supermarines have already bigger bolters so sooner or later they will need to get bigger equipment for other units (devs, assault, terminators). And people will buy it and they will be set for decades.

Regarding the starter set, rumours on SM part are this - Captain, Librarian, Tactical, Assault and Devs. Seems pretty weak without vehicles (they have not been rescaled yet?). So I've been wondering, will all those marines will rescaled in starter set or only tactical squad ?


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## Khorne's Fist

> We’ve heard about movement, psychic powers, and shooting. Today we look at the Charge phase.
> 
> Charging in Warhammer 40,000 is how you get your units into close combat to use all those awesome looking exotic combat weapons to hack, slash and otherwise obliterate enemy units.
> 
> 
> 
> The basic mechanics of this phase are very similar to how they work now. You can select any unit within 12″ as the target of your charge, and your units will move towards them 2D6″.
> 
> Enemy units still have a chance to hit the charging unit with overwatch, provided that they are not already in combat. Just as in the current edition, overwatch is a hit on a flat 6 – all pretty familiar so far.
> 
> In the current Warhammer 40,000, you need to reach base contact. In the new edition, though, you only need to come within 1″ of an enemy, which in practice means that compared to the current charge range, you get an extra inch.
> 
> You also can’t move within 1″ of an enemy you didn’t declare as the target of your charge, so if you want to engage multiple units, you’ll need to brave the overwatch fire of all of them. Overwatch can also be fired multiple times per phase, but as soon as the unit is engaged, they will no longer be able to fire back.
> 
> 
> 
> So, the Charge phase keeps most of its current mechanics, with only minor amends.
> 
> Tomorrow, we’ll check in on the Fight phase, where we look at the bloody melee in the 41st Millennium.


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## Haskanael

Entarion said:


> Exactly. New tactical supermarines have already bigger bolters so sooner or later they will need to get bigger equipment for other units (devs, assault, terminators). And people will buy it and they will be set for decades.
> 
> Regarding the starter set, rumours on SM part are this - Captain, Librarian, Tactical, Assault and Devs. Seems pretty weak without vehicles (they have not been rescaled yet?). So I've been wondering, will all those marines will rescaled in starter set or only tactical squad ?


if they are going to rescale all tanks, I am going to trow my leman russes trough the LFG store window


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## gen.ahab

neferhet said:


> Yes. a bad fluff spin to justify another money grab forcing (in long term) all SM players to rebuy their models in order to field Super-Space Marines aka StormCasts. Sorry about the negativity :laugh2:
> The pistol stuff is cool. i just assume you will not get an extra attack in melee by pairing it with a ccw.
> All in all i'm changing my mind towards a cautious acceptation of the new system. Not the fluff and the new units...but the rules might be functional into quickening the game. (as now, time issues are my group worst concern)


I'd say it could be that or we could just be seeing new elites. However, I would wager this is the more likely possibility, considering GW is in the business of making money. Now, I don't have a problem with that; that's their job. But if this is the case, the whole, "nah, we won't invalidate your minis," thing was slightly chicken shit, and that I do have a small problem with.

It somewhat begs the question, though: if these will eventually replace the SM range, how will they handle chapter specific ranges?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## scscofield

I think they would just make it a new unit available to all honestly. I don't see them discontinuing the older lines when they can sell both.


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## Old Man78

scscofield said:


> I think they would just make it a new unit available to all honestly. I don't see them discontinuing the older lines when they can sell both.


I think you are 100% on this, a new unit probably an elite slot


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## Fallen

Wait, you mean that I might actually have a good GW base model to make Obliterators out of now?

*Is very much aware of the Hi-Tech Miniatures*


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## Shandathe

To be fair, GW has kept the entire SM range the size it is mostly so the parts remained interchangeable. They've needed a size upgrade for a while given pretty much every OTHER new release. This wouldn't be too bad a way to start phasing the old models out.


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## Einherjar667

Not to mention the big introduction of plastic 30k minis. I don't see them having the 30k minis one scale, and the 40k minis a different scale. We saw a larger set of minis in AoS (Blight Kings, the Khorne elites, etc.) But a lot of the normal troops (The Kairic Acolytes and Khorne equivalent) are the same scale as Chaos Cultists.


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## Entarion

If they will be parallel line (base tactical box with future upgrade sets for assault and heavy weapons, new special vehicles, characters etc.) then I am ok with it. Sort of.

From fluff perspective they won't be sub-faction so how they will be incorporated to existing chapters? Will they replace company captains and chapter masters as they will be superior to them in every way? Will all codex and non-codex chapters have them ?
If they would be just small elite addition because of production cost, then it would be ok. But it they want to bring back entire chapters this might not be the case then.

I think that sooner or later old models will be replaced completely. Slow version of soon-to-be End Times is coming


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## Brother Dextus

The charging and shooting rules could be interesting, with pistols at 1" and charges up to that distance does help slightly. 

For the new scale marines, I'll go play 30k for a while and see what occurs I reckon.


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## Khorne's Fist

> Posted 02/05/2017
> 
> New Warhammer 40,000 – Fight Phase
> 
> 
> Let’s get down to the best phase – combat (unless you’re a Fire Warrior…sorry).
> 
> This is part of the new Warhammer 40,000 with some of the biggest changes. We’ve already seen in our article on unit profiles that Initiative has gone. Instead, the priority for striking is based on the previous phase, with those units that completed a charge swinging first.
> 
> There’s a definite emphasis on making charging into combat effective – these units have gotten all the way across the battlefield, they’ve braved enemy fire and overwatch, and now they’ve finally made it into combat – they will at the very least get to swing.
> 
> Units that activate gain a free 3″ move towards the closest enemy. This can be used to get within 1″ of other enemy units, if you’re cunning, dragging more foes into the melee and preventing them from shooting next turn, even if you didn’t charge them directly (giving them no chance to overwatch). Enemy gun lines will need to be careful about how they position their supporting units, so as to avoid getting dragged into the fight too.
> 
> 
> 
> Following chargers, players take it in turns to activate units across the board to fight – this can get quite tactical, as both players need to choose the combats where dealing maximum damage will be important to them, while trying to limit enemy retaliation on their valuable or fragile models.
> 
> There are a few units that can interrupt this sequence to attack out of turn too – Tyranids with lash whips and Slaaneshi Daemons, for example – and it can also be influenced by Stratagems (more on these soon) if your army is Battle-forged, all of which add a nuanced level of tactical depth to the phase.
> 
> 
> 
> Players will have much more influence over the outcome of combat now, rather than purely the stats of the models involved, both in their own and in the opponent’s turns (though we still wouldn’t expect Guardsmen to triumph over a unit of Khorne Berzerkers any time soon – fix bayonets!).
> 
> Another thing we have seen is that hit rolls are now fixed. This has the effect of making dedicated combat units generally hit on a 3+, while models representing the most competent warriors of the 41st Millennium (Guilliman, the Swarmlord, Ghazghkull Thraka, to name but a few) will now hit on 2+!
> 
> 
> 
> Close combat weapons (which we’ll look at in more detail in future) also gain new rules – some will slice through armour easily, while others will hit with enough force to cause deal multiple wounds that can cripple or kill even powerful enemy models.
> 
> Across the board, these changes lead to combats that are more deadly than ever. Generals who successfully coordinate a battlefield-wide charge will be rewarded with a phase of utter carnage, while their opponent will have to work hard to minimise taking damage, and carefully consider their retaliatory options.
> 
> Expect combats to be hard-fought, bloody, and tactical – just as they should be.
> 
> We’ll be back tomorrow with some new details on morale – and after we’ve seen the damage that shooting, psychic powers and combat can do – can you blame anyone for running away?


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## scscofield

Well that is nicely vague and uninformative

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## Shandathe

They've explained the order units fight in quite well, I think. People who charged that turn go first, then players take turns nominating units to activate because Age of Guilliman needs to be more like Age of Sigmar (the only difference appears to be that making the charge gives you the additional bonus of swinging first - the +1 attack for charging of the current edition is probably gone). 

To hit is on the unit profile, to Wound is still Strength vs. Toughness... 

Specifics on Wound allocation weren't in shooting either so we'll presumably still get that later. What happens when a single attack causes more wounds than can be found on a single model (eg. Meltagun shot at a Guardsman) is a pretty vital bit of missing knowledge - will it still kill just the one model or will it wipe the entire unit?


----------



## gen.ahab

Since _ is no longer a concern, wonder (with the above) if we'll see power fists and thunder hammers losing their ability to negate armor. It would be somewhat neat to walk up to a carnifrex and be able to pound its head out of its ass with a multiple damage TH. Perhaps multiple damage and a slight armor pen? I'll be interested to see.

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## darkreever

gen.ahab said:


> Since _ is no longer a concern, wonder (with the above) if we'll see power fists and thunder hammers losing their ability to negate armor._


_
I'd imagine that weapons like that would still maintain a greater armour modifier than a power sword.

You know like a power sword is user strength and a -1 save modifier vs a powerfist that is double user strength with a -3 modifier._


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## arthur.bobany

We also haven't seen all the rules yet. Thunder hammers and the like could have an "always strikes last" rule. I hope not, but they could. 

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## Khorne's Fist

I'm thinking WD usually comes out a week before big releases so as to trumpet said release. Make of that what you will.


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## Roganzar

Shandathe said:


> They've explained the order units fight in quite well, I think. People who charged that turn go first, then players take turns nominating units to activate because Age of Guilliman needs to be more like Age of Sigmar (the only difference appears to be that making the charge gives you the additional bonus of swinging first - the +1 attack for charging of the current edition is probably gone).
> 
> To hit is on the unit profile, to Wound is still Strength vs. Toughness...
> 
> Specifics on Wound allocation weren't in shooting either so we'll presumably still get that later. What happens when a single attack causes more wounds than can be found on a single model (eg. Meltagun shot at a Guardsman) is a pretty vital bit of missing knowledge - will it still kill just the one model or will it wipe the entire unit?


The way I've understood the vagaries of their reveals is that a weapon like the meltagun will do multiple wounds to one target. The example for this being the lascannon which does 1 attack and D6 wounds. Which looks to me as all the wounds on one mode. Damaging to a vehicle or monster. Overkill against infantry.
Still don't know for sure. It's just how I'm interpreting these astropathic messages they keep sending out.


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## Serpion5

Roganzar said:


> The way I've understood the vagaries of their reveals is that a weapon like the meltagun will do multiple wounds to one target. The example for this being the lascannon which does 1 attack and D6 wounds. Which looks to me as all the wounds on one mode. Damaging to a vehicle or monster. Overkill against infantry.
> Still don't know for sure. It's just how I'm interpreting these astropathic messages they keep sending out.


This, pretty much. Similar to current D strength weapons.

EDIT: Remember from the weapons preview they showed, between the flamer and lascannon we can see that the amount of hits and the damage a weapon does are two different things and it was explained there that each hit's damage will only affect the one model. So you cannot carve through half a squad with a single lascannon shot.


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## Khorne's Fist

> In the 41st Millennium, morale plays a vital role.
> 
> Battles can won and lost by the brave actions of a few stubborn defenders, or defeat caused by the panicked flight of key elements of an enemy force.
> 
> Morale has always been a part of Warhammer 40,000. In the past edition though, it did often seem that in a lot of games it could be largely ignored – so many units were immune to its various effects. Where it did apply though, you had to take a lot of tests – it was conceivable that a unit might have to take over half a dozen Leadership tests in a turn, which had the effect of bogging down the game.
> 
> 
> 
> The new Morale phase is simple, and only happens once per player turn, at the end of all your other phases. It will apply to almost every unit, and represents warriors fleeing the battlefield, dying from the psychic feedback shockwaves of their allies, or retreating with injured or fallen brethren. There will be very few units indeed that will not feel its effects.
> 
> The mechanics are simple – any units that suffered casualties in a turn must take a Morale test at the end of it. You just roll a dice, add the number of models from the unit that have been slain, and if the number is bigger than the unit’s Leadership, the unit loses the difference in additional models.
> 
> That’s it! No units falling back, no regroup tests – all that is gone.
> 
> You can see straight away, this will be pretty brutal and mean units that suffer high casualties in a turn stand to lose a lot more come the Morale phase if they roll poorly. Conversely, single-model units (like many vehicles) won’t have to test; as they are units of one, there are no other models in their squad to lose.
> 
> 
> 
> There are a few things that can help you out in this phase. A Chaos Dark Apostle, for example, allows all nearby units from the same Legion to use his Leadership. Or, you can use some units to make your opponent’s tests more difficult – the Hemlock Wraithfighter, as an example, decreases the Leadership of enemy units by 1 if they are within 12″ (which equates to one additional lost model on every failed test).
> 
> So, that’s morale.
> 
> We’ve run through all the phases of the game now. Tomorrow, we’ll take a look at some new background and lore in the new Warhammer 40,000, and then on Friday, we’ll take a look at Battle-forged armies.


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## scscofield

Ouch.....


ATSKNF will prob negate half of it 

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## neferhet

A Chaos Dark Apostle, for example, allows all nearby units from the same Legion to use his Leadership

Besides the gurgling shit that is the AoS morale rule, the above bit have a fair important hint: THERE WILL BE CHAOS LEGIONS.


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## Khorne's Fist

neferhet said:


> THERE WILL BE CHAOS LEGIONS.


There already are. The Legion supplement covered them last year.


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## neferhet

Khorne's Fist said:


> There already are. The Legion supplement covered them last year.


Fist, let's not play games: there's a new rules set that will invalidate all codices and supplements. There was no mention to Legions surviving 8th edition.
Now it is.


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## scscofield

The first 8th FAQ stated that all current armies would remain valid and in play....


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## Khorne's Fist

I'm not playing games. They announced in the initial unveil that all existing books would be carried forward. On top of that TS are fresh off the press and we know Deathguard minis are on the way, so it's pretty much nailed on there'll be Chaos Legions in 8th.


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## Brother Dextus

There's definitely going to be legion type rules - they'll just roll the chapters/legions/regiment type stuff over, and expand the eldar/orks etc accordingly.... they sell more stuff then!


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## Serpion5

This raises questions. They're saying that there will be few models that won't feel the effects of morale, but it sounds like single model units have nothing to worry about. 

I'm interested to see how Tyranids and Synapse Creatures work now.


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## Shandathe

*eyes Morale post* I'm starting to understand their protests that they're not making the 40K version of Age of Sigmar, because they're sure rifling through its pockets for loose mechanics.


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## Fallen

To quote one of my friends from a FB chat yesterday.



> Just some thoughts on changes to Leadership and the "battleshock" phase being imported from AOS.
> 
> Definitely looks interesting and a much quicker version than in 7th. will depend heavily on what special rules each army gets. ATSKNF was a huge weight that allowed marines to completely ignore morale on many occasions while punishing all other armies (including Chaos) that did not have it or fearless. Based on what I have seen after glancing at AOS, i think this is how the leadership stats will change.
> 
> -Fearless units will be Leadership 10 just like in AOS.
> -Brave Units like space Marines will have a leadership of 7
> -normal units like Guard will have a leadership of 6
> -cowardly units like gretchen will have a leadership of 5
> 
> high leadership units without fearless like Necrons may have an 8 or 9.
> 
> Statistically, horde infantry demons like bloodletters in AOS can take 1-5 casualties and not care about tests. at 6-7, they have a chance of losing an additional model, and 8+ casualties in a turn can be very bad. alternatively, marines, which we know are going to be leadership 7 base, can absorb 1 casualty per game turn without needing to fear Battleshock and up to 3 each turn and still have a fair chance of passing .
> 
> A post on facebook speculating that ATSKNF will give a reroll on Battleshock was tagged as "a good speculation" by GW. This would mitigate some of the danger for Marines. Assuming this is true, then a marine unit can (with some reliability) take up to 2-3 casualties each turn without a low fear of testing (2-12% failure) and up to 4 and still have a fair chance of passing (75%)
> 
> ----
> 
> We also discussed our guesses to how Synapse would work.
> 
> I suspect it will be more like all nids are leadership 10 while in leadership range but drop to leadership 5 or 4 outside. that way it stays relevant to all armies, but you have to cause a significant number of casualties to nids to make them care.


In general I initially found that the morale preview to be pretty depressing, I am not too much of a fan of just removing models from the table top for no real reason.

But after having this conversation (I omitted the non relevant portions) I am not whole sale depressed, but I am really REALLY interested/concerned about how the special rules regarding moral (Fearless, ATSKNF, and Stubborn primarily) are going to be used.


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## the_barwn

Hmm...This might encourage Eldar to use Avatars more often then due to the moral boost bubble it confers


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## Khorne's Fist

More of a fluff post today. Looking forward to everything this new Crusade is going to bring. 



> Those of you familiar with the Warhammer 40,000 universe who have seen the new galaxy map, will certainly have spotted at least one major change.
> 
> The Great Rift is a tear in reality that essentially divides the Imperium in half. Its emergence was a literal galaxy-shattering event, which threw the Imperium into chaos and ushered in new wars across nearly every world in the Imperium. So powerful and far was this storm that the very laws of physics fray at the edges as the inconsistencies of time fluctuations, once largely localised to larger storms such as the Eye of Terror, spread across the galaxy. Some worlds felt centuries go by in an instant while others were all but frozen in time, and still others have suffered constant temporal shifts.
> 
> None fully understand the origins of the rift – though there are many theories: the breach of the Cadian Gate, the sorcery of a Daemon Primarch, catastrophe in the Webway, mass bloodshed and fire in the Damocles Gulf – all may have caused or contributed to it. The rift is variously known by the cultures of the galaxy as the Crimson Path, the Mouth of Ruin, the Warpscar, the Dathedian, Gork’s Grin and a thousand other names besides. To the Imperium it is the Cicatrix Maledictum, or just the Great Rift. To those on the Terran side, it is a tainted scar across the sky. To those unfortunates on the far side, it is far worse…
> 
> While we saw the beginnings of this great tear in the events of the Gathering Storm, in the story of the new Warhammer 40,000, Roboute Guilliman, Lord Commander of the Imperium’s armies, looks out over the ruins of his Father’s empire and sets about its reconquest in a crusade to liberate those worlds embattled by the forces of Chaos and free those beset by xenos predators closing in on the weakened worlds of Mankind.


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## gen.ahab

Khorne's Fist said:


> More of a fluff post today. Looking forward to everything this new Crusade is going to bring.







Can't wait to get my hands on a physical copy of the BRB(LRB?) and get a look at dat juicy lore.


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## Brother Lucian

So the Great Rift is also known as the Crimson Path. Abbadon's very plan to extend the Eye of Terror with a spear of unreality all the way to Terra. But something must have gone amiss as the aim was way off the mark. Perhaps the dark gods intervened and thought merely cleaving the Imperium in twain would be more lulzworthy and emotiongiving than going directly for Abby's endgame at Terra. Could be seen as a bit of a snub to him too, because he refuses to bend knees to them.


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## Khorne's Fist

Battle-forged armies will be familiar to Warhammer 40,000 players today – it basically means that all the models in your army are part of a Detachment or Formation.

That is still largely true in the new Warhammer 40,000, but with a few changes.

The biggest of which is… wait for it…<puff of smoke>

Formations are gone.

That’s right, no more Formations. But don’t panic!

If your army is built using Formations right now, you’re going to be fine. In their place are a dozen new game-wide Detachments that are available to all factions. These are flexible enough that all of your current forces can be fit into them to form a Battle-forged army. The advantage of these is that all factions now have an even playing field of list building mechanics, rather than some having loads and some having to stick with the trusty Combined Arms option for every game.

These detachments are made up of a combination of 9 unit types, which will look very familiar to anyone who has played Warhammer 40,000 in the past two decades. Some you’ll recognise from Space Marines company markings and the classic Combined Arms detachment of today, plus Lords of War, Fortifications and the new one – Flyers, now with their own slot.



These Detachments come with a few benefits and restrictions. The most common restriction is that all units in a single Detachment must share a faction keyword (Tyranid, Blood Angels or Imperium for example). The most common bonus is that, depending on how optimised your army is for the logistics of war, you’ll get Command Points to spend. We’ll cover exactly what these can do for you soon, but trust us when we say they are incredibly useful if used wisely, and you generally get more of them if your army is a well rounded and balanced force.

Here are a few examples:





These are just a taste of the options available.

Battle-forged armies can be used with or without points, and we fully expect gamers playing matched or narrative play games to use these in most situations as they tend to create effective armies on the tabletop that also fit the background and lore of the setting. Matched play actually has a few extra rules too, designed for competitive events, which organisers can choose to use when setting the rules for Battle-forged armies – limits on the number of separate Detachments is one example.

We’ll be back again tomorrow with more news from the new Warhammer 40,000.


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## scscofield

Moving fliers out of FA/HS will help some with the bloat of those for many factions

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## ntaw

scscofield said:


> Moving fliers out of FA/HS will help some with the bloat of those for many factions


All factions had access to Flyer Formations and the ability to take Air Superiority Detachments/Flyer squadrons, no? I can't really think of an army that suffered 'bloat' from having Flyers as a HS/FA selection.


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## Haskanael

ntaw said:


> All factions had access to Flyer Formations and the ability to take Air Superiority Detachments/Flyer squadrons, no? I can't really think of an army that suffered 'bloat' from having Flyers as a HS/FA selection.


some factions just had easier acces to flyers in a battleforged army then others... like the guard.


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## scscofield

The local group never bothered with the formations and what not. I was under the impression they required multiple flyers

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## Haskanael

scscofield said:


> The local group never bothered with the formations and what not. I was under the impression they required multiple flyers
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


they do, guard formation for fliers requires at least 3 but if you want a competetive army with formations you need at least 2 different non flyer guard formations wich will probably end up near the 700 to 900 points each. so for the average game adding flyers will be a tight fit.


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## scscofield

Yah we mainly play 1850 PTS here and only a few even bother with flyers. Might change with 8th though

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## ntaw

I am really failing to see how Codices with Flyers as FA/HS slots count as 'bloat' when you're only looking to add one to a list, but hey. What can you do. 

Hopefully the new edition helps your list building process and gets the models you like on the table effectively k:


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## Shandathe

@ntaw, the problem is that competition for FA/HS slots is very heavy in some armies. Take my Sisters of Battle, Seraphim and Dominions both are some of my most effective units, so that's the 3 FA slots pretty much always spoken for and the Sisters don't exactly have a lot of Formations to fall back on outside the CAD to free some.

For such situations, trying to fit a Flier in the same slot gets painful quick even if you've got the points for it.

Anyway... I'm GLAD to see the back of Formations. All of them. Good riddance.

Quite frankly, handing out free benefits without an associated points cost - and a great many of the Formations were indeed quite a bit better for the units involved than the standard CAD - is a horrible idea for game balance.

I can only hope new army books won't have army-specific detachments in them.


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## Serpion5

Tyranids had fuck all in the way of formations. I foresee that Brigade Detachment being a popular choice.


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## ntaw

Shandathe said:


> @ntaw , the problem is that competition for FA/HS slots is very heavy in some armies. Take my Sisters of Battle, Seraphim and Dominions both are some of my most effective units, so that's the 3 FA slots pretty much always spoken for and the Sisters don't exactly have a lot of Formations to fall back on outside the CAD to free some.
> 
> For such situations, trying to fit a Flier in the same slot gets painful quick even if you've got the points for it.


:laugh: I get you on there being too many options in a FoC slot, the BA Codex is a gong show for that. If the utility of the Flyer works better in your list it's the optimal choice though, you're still going to face the same decisions with the points you spend in your army when they exist in a Flyer FoC slot. Whether they are Heavy Support, Fast Attack, or Flyer selections they'll still be just as hard to fit in if the points and circumstance say otherwise. Not to mention the in-game mechanics! Goodness. Some people were very picky about certain things with Flyers in 7th. Onward and upward in 8th with all luck.


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## Starbuck

Does the big detachment speak across the board puts discounts? As a blood angels player filling up all those slots would be pretty hard to do at 1850 or thereabouts


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## Fallen

No I don't think that because of there being the huge FOC charts being available means a general points decrease. It is probably designed so that people can scale up in games, or army size, with goals.

AKA the bigger you go the larger game your playing so from ranging from 1k to apoc.


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## ntaw

Starbuck said:


> *Does the big detachment speak across the board puts discounts?* As a blood angels player filling up all those slots would be pretty hard to do at 1850 or thereabouts


This is honestly one of the best sentences I've read on the internet to date. I think GW have stated that 'free' stuff is out the window but I don't have anything but a hazy memory of Fb posts sifted for their responses to go on, so take that for whatever it's worth.

As @Fallen pointed out, the different detachments will likely be more pointed toward point ranges. Maybe the Patrol Detachment is good for 500-1250, the Battalion 1250-2k, and the Brigade 2k+? Ultimately we know nothing about how these Detachments work together, what point value anything is any more, or specifically what Command Points are and how they're spent (we've only heard them mentioned in passing but they seem pretty powerful given the right employ).

As a fellow BA player I'm very interested to see whether the FoC designations of 8th stay with the 7th edition spots or switches some things back to their 5th edition placing. The WC site is through the phases of the game and done 2/6 Warzones (assuming there will be profiles for only the 6 showcased on the 40k site) so Faction spotlights will come soon enough hopefully. Somehow I feel like we may just be waiting for release to find out such specific answers though :/


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## Khorne's Fist

Today we take a look at the biggest models in the game, and how they’re going to work in the new edition.

There are a few big changes here, though we covered some of them a little when we looked at profiles. Like the three units we’ve seen already, every model will be using the same profile system, so everything will have Wounds, Toughness, Strength, etc… This includes all vehicles.

We’ve also gotten rid of specific rules for Gargantuan Creatures and Super-heavy vehicles. Instead, these units will have a suitably impressive statline, but still play by the same rules as everyone else. This also means that those units that previously sat just shy of Super-heavy status, and missed out on bunch of special rules because of it, will now be appropriately killy and durable.

You’ll soon see that some of Warhammer 40,000’s biggest hitters have A LOT of Wounds, high Toughness and a good save. The biggest Tyranid monsters now have over a dozen wounds, where Imperial Knights have over 20!

This makes them almost infinitely survivable against small arms fire, but means that high-power weapons that can take chunks of wounds off at a time (lascannons, powerfists, battle cannons, etc) can take them down relatively quickly when brought to bear in force. Gone are the days of a lucky first-turn meltagun blowing up your Land Raider. (A squad of them will still ruin its day though…)

There are almost no weapons in the game now that can instantly kill these big guys, so there will be no shortcuts to dealing with them – you have to get your hands dirty and take those Wounds off.

This can make big models very powerful, but there is a counter mechanic in the rules. As these large, powerful models take damage, their combat effectiveness starts to degrade. The best way to show you this is with an example.

Here we have a Mork(or possibly Gork)anaut (as requested by Stacy from our Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page):



Whoa, so – with 18 Wounds at Toughness 8, this guy is a tough cookie to crack – able to wade through bolter fire untroubled and requiring a lot of heavy weapons shots to take down.

You can see, though, as it gets to the point of only having half its Wounds left, this walker starts to get less effective – it will move slower and its attacks will get more clumsy as servos are fused, and sensor arrays fail to register.

At 4 Wounds left, it’s all but crippled, though its shooting output will be undiminished – so it starts as a combat wrecking ball at the beginning of the battle, crashing through enemy lines, and ends up as more of a semi-mobile shooting fortress at the end of its life.

Different vehicles will be reduced in effectiveness in different ways too – some will get worse at shooting, some will slow down, and some some will become less effective in melee.

So, the big stuff sounds pretty scary!

We’ll be back tomorrow with some good news for the little guys, when we look at how infantry work, and how combined firepower can be used to topple even the mightiest foes.


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## scscofield

Going to have to start building wound counters of some sort into all my bases....


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## Khorne's Fist

scscofield said:


> Going to have to start building wound counters of some sort into all my bases....


I have a suspicion we'll see a product to help us with that.


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## scscofield

Most likely but I'm cheap

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## neferhet

scscofield said:


> Most likely but I'm cheap
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


pencil and blocknotes work wonders


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## Khorne's Fist

Hopefully we see a new Abbadon mini sooner rather than later. Any thoughts on who might make up a Chaos triumvirate with him if they go that route?



> *Faction Focus: Chaos Space Marines​*_Who is Frankie, and Why should I care?
> 
> Frankie is part of the team that runs some of the biggest independent Warhammer 40,000 events in the world, including the Las Vegas Open, the Bay Area Open and the recently announced Southern California Open. An avid player for years, with an impressive tournament record, he’s also been part of the playtest team for the new edition of Warhammer 40,000, putting in hundreds of hours to make sure this new edition will be great for all you gamers out there (Thanks Frankie!).
> 
> So, basically, he know’s his stuff.
> 
> Today, we start a new article series where he (and a few others) will talk about how the new edition is going to affect specific factions, and what units they think we’ll be seeing more of. We start off with Chaos Space Marines – take it away Frankie…_
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Warhammer Community readers! Frankie here from the SoCal Open Gaming Convention to talk to you about the (alleged!) bad guys of the 41st Millennium and some of what to expect from them in the new Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Space Marines. Okay so maybe they’re actually pretty bad, especially after Abaddon’s success in destroying Cadia, but we all know the False Emperor is the real bad guy here….
> 
> I myself have always enjoyed playing Chaos; the models are incredible and their back story is the best. The interactions between the Chaos Lords is amazing as well, as most of them don’t respect (or even like) each other but will join up to win battles and earn glory for Chaos. My favorite thing about Chaos is the Daemon Engines that they have in their armies. Flying mechanical space dragons breathing warpfire that burns your soul? Sign me up!
> 
> Chaos armies usually lean towards close combat, which is not what you normally see from a lot of armies in Warhammer 40,000 currently. Chaos has a solid control of the psychic phase as well, with the nasty Sorcerer Cabal that has been rampaging across the tables around the world – very fitting for an army that largely calls the warp home.
> 
> The troops you usually see on the field are the bravest humans in the galaxy, the Chaos Cultists! The Cultist Champion will challenge any foe that is willing to accept no matter how powerful they are. He usually doesn’t do anything that would impress the Chaos Gods, but at least he is willing to try!
> 
> Now for the moment everyone has been waiting for: how does Chaos play in the new edition? It has been a long time since we’ve seen Chaos armies with a lot of power armour on the tables, but no more! In the new edition, you will be seeing a great many Chaos armies, and a lot of them will have power armour in abundance! Yes, you read that right, you will want to have Chaos Space Marines in Chaos Space Marine armies!
> 
> Make sure to dust off your Havocs and gear them up for business as they are going to be helping the galaxy burn, baby! The changes to Heavy weapons have made these guys a great choice to help defeat the deluded lapdogs of the Emperor.
> 
> I cannot remember the last time I saw Havocs on the table, and it is a very welcome sight! Make sure to have a fully stocked arsenal as those lascannons, autocannon, missile launchers and even – you better believe it – heavy bolters, as they are going to be doing plenty of work in this new version of Warhammer 40,000!
> 
> They will provide excellent cover fire for your Chaos Terminators which will now strike fear into the hearts of your opponent as they bring devastation to the battlefield where they are least expected.
> 
> Abbadon has always been a bit of a disappointment to me. I have tried to play him in countless armies, but he often just ended up poking himself in the eye with Drach’nyen and not accomplishing a whole lot. Well how about we change that around and allow Abbadon to kick some serious Imperial tail?
> 
> Your wish is Games Workshop’s command, and now Abbadon has the rules to stomp face all along the Crimson Path (no surprise here, but he’s claiming credit for the Great Rift). Cadia was just the first step! He is a force to reckon with and inspires his Legion, allowing them to dominate the battlefield with an incredible ability which I will not spoil for you here. He is also a monster in combat, as his back-story would suggest, tearing people apart with the Talon of Horus and Drach’nyen. Imperium, be prepared for the Black Legion to cast an ominous shadow across the galaxy once again.
> 
> As stated above, your Daemon Engines will be rightly feared as well. With the changes to rules we’ve seen in vehicles, these furious engines of destruction no longer need to worry about being destroyed by a single lascannon shot as they prowl the battlefields.
> 
> Lastly, I want to talk about some of the most savage close combat fighters in the galaxy: the Khorne Berzerkers.
> 
> These guys are supposed to be feared for their brutality and combat prowess. Well, guess what? They will be – start fearing them now. Khorne will be pleased with this newest iteration of Berzerkers… very pleased! One of the key things that makes these blood-hungry units so good is the change to charging, as now they all get to swing first in a turn in which they charged. No more getting wiped out before they have the chance to hit anything.
> 
> What about chainaxes, you ask? You will want to arm all of your “Blood for the Blood God” warriors with these bad boys. Wait…Blood for the Blood God…what does that do? I guess you will have to wait and find out when these warriors hit the tabletops, but trust me, blood and skulls will be reaped!
> 
> That is truly just the tip of the iceberg, too. So many units that have languished on the shelves are going to rise up from the ashes to wreak havoc on the tabletops and provide hours of fun.
> 
> Well, I hope all you Chaos players are as excited as I am about this new edition. Make sure to get all those unfinished Chaos models ready for battle so you can hit the tables and planets in style!
> 
> We’ll be back in a few days to here from Reece about the Astra Militarum.


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## gen.ahab

Finally, my shit-pot of D20s are going to have some use besides just sitting in my dice bag. In all honesty though, I really like what I am seeing in this post; they've made vehicles tough as hell and the damage component seems like it is going to add a nice bit of narrative to combat. 

I have said this before, but the more I see regarding this new edition the more I look forward to it.


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## ntaw

I'm stoked to dust of the D20's as well, very OK with how large models are being treated. It may be a bit more to remember with each vehicle potentially having a unique damage table but it's way more characterful than one high strength shot ending a full health vehicle.


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## neferhet

interesting news about chaos. they really..listened...to the internet roaring, it seems. 
More power armour? Check
Fix failbaddon? check
Make zerkers great again? check!

I don't get the havocs part, though...i usually field them, they are not so bad (better than a defiler, for shure)

we''ll see how this translate in the rules.

in any case i would not be so tempted to field big blobs of cultists anymore, thanks to the stupid morale rule. If chaos marines are even better, now...well, Merines MSU ad libitum!


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## Khorne's Fist

> Today, we’re going to look at the little guys.
> 
> The new Warhammer 40,000 will give infantry a chance to shine. There is stuff you just can’t do with very well with vehicles, bikes and walkers, like hold ruins, use cover effectively and swarm the battlefield in numbers to claim every objective.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing that is certainly going to help infantry out is the fact that everything can harm everything in the game. We’ve heard already that characteristics don’t cap at 10 anymore, so the old 10×10 strength vs toughness table was in for an update. In the new edition, there’s a simple but elegant system to find out what you need to wound:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you can see that while even the humble lasgun has a chance to take down the biggest foe, you’ll need a lot of small-arms fire to really threaten the big stuff. We’ve already seen the profiles of a Space Marine, a bolter, a lascannon and a Gorkanaut, and now we know all the steps to work out just how such a Shooting phase might go. Some quick maths tells us that we’d need over 500 bolters firing at that Gorkanaut to bring it down, whereas you’d need just over a dozen lascannons. So, while you might occasionally chip the odd wound off with bolters, lasguns or shootas, you might find that your standard infantry guns are better used elsewhere.
> 
> Not a problem though, because in the new Warhammer 40,000, models in a squad can fire at different targets. So, this means your Tactical Squad can have your boys with bolters deal with that onrushing Hormagaunt horde, while the flamer bathes a nearby Lictor in prometheum fire, and the squad’s krak missile takes an opportunistic pop-shot at that onrushing Carnifex – just as you always imagined they should!
> 
> Infantry is going to have a lot to offer a cunning general in this edition.
> 
> Tomorrow, we’ll take a look at how characters work, join us then.


Split fire is interesting. Makes sense the way they're explaining it.


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## neferhet

Split fire for all: dear god, that was about time...


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## ntaw

neferhet said:


> Split fire for all: dear god, that was about time...


This is shaping up to be quite the sensible set of rules! I like that they offered us some simple maths saying that it would take ~300 bolter shots to kill a Gork/Morkanaut; I mean who has that kind of bolter output?

*Looks at Imperial Fist players who collected battle companies in the last edition :laugh:


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## neferhet

ntaw said:


> This is shaping up to be quite the sensible set of rules! I like that they offered us some simple maths saying that it would take ~300 bolter shots to kill a Gork/Morkanaut; I mean who has that kind of bolter output?
> 
> *Looks at Imperial Fist players who collected battle companies in the last edition :laugh:


well, i actually despise this rule... i will never try to kill it with bolters...but i can definetly kill an imperial knith off its last couple of wounds with bolters and lasguns. And that is ridiculous. It is outrageous just like the one-shot-explode vehicles. Anyway, splitfire for all is really a boon expecially for mixed weapons units that will be very useful! I imagine my old chaos kill team fielded with success (rhino with havoc launchers, 10 marines, heavy bolter, flamer, powersword) that's unbelievable! XD

EDIT: also...did it means that Str 4 wounds T 7 at 5+ ??? AH!


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## Serpion5

That to wound post does seem to imply that instant death may no longer be a thing. 

Which I'm okay with, if there are going to be weapons dealing multiple wound damage then ID will probably no longer be necessary.


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## Starbuck

This is all making it seem to me like everything is going to die quite quickly. Add that to the super formations from earlier and a wish to sell more models I think maybe this is going to mean pts reduction so more models on the table that die faster.


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## Brother Dextus

I'm liking the new rules set.... so far.

Is it me, or does a fair bit of this seem to draw from 2nd (or at least a very old edition). I seem to remember some of this from when I started playing with mates in the classroom. Maybe its just a ghost memory.


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## Serpion5

Starbuck said:


> This is all making it seem to me like everything is going to die quite quickly. Add that to the super formations from earlier and a wish to sell more models I think maybe this is going to mean pts reduction so more models on the table that die faster.


The new armour pierceing setup does seem like it will be murder to a lot of infantry, but bolters and flamers are now 0 so it seems as though armour piercing weapons and multiple wound weapons are going to be fairly rare. 

They've said that although anything can now wound anything else, it really will be a matter of targeting the right enemies with the right weapons if you want to get anywhere fast.


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## scscofield

I am thinking those larger formations are geared towards larger Apocalypse level games. I don't think it should be assumed that points are being slashed based off of those. Even with the rules being 'faster' adding that many more models to the table would bog a game down.

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## Serpion5

They can do what they want with the points, honestly. Competent gaming circles will simply adjust the points levels of their games to keep themselves comfortable. A few editions ago, 2k or 1750 was the norm. In most games I've had under 7th it's been 1500 and the model count isn't much different. 

I can't speak for every army, but I can say for certain that necron and tyranid points costs have shifted noticeably over the last three codexes they each had. The majority of units in the less points direction.


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## scscofield

I don't disagree about groups adjusting, I just don't see points being cut enough to make that large formation viable in less than 3-4k points. 

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## Roganzar

I don't think the points are going to change all that much. Looking at Space Marine Tac Squad, as GW seems to view these as the baseline for everything else. That and I could only find the following information quickly. RESEARCH!!

A Tactical Marines squad (w/10 men, Veteran Sergeant, flamer and missile launcher) with a dedicated Rhino (basic nothing fancy) is currently 205 points. Now compared to editions back to 4th here, (Space Marine Point Costs Over 3 Editions | Wargaming Hub) the only change is 4th to 5th edition.



> The average cost for the humble tactical squad has changed very little. What did change, however, were the options of putting them together. For comparing point costs, I used a 10-man tactical squad with veteran sergeant, a flamer, a missile launcher and a no-frills Rhino.
> *4th Edition Codex Dark Angels: 215 points*
> Tactical Marines in the 4th Edition Codex, even with the mentioned options, weren’t that much more expensive. What they lacked, however, was flexibility in the build. You could only pick a basic 5-man squad (with the veteran sergeant) or a full 10-man squad. There were no discounts on special or heavy weapons, making these 10 points extra.
> *5th Edition Codex Space Marines: 205 points*
> 5 Tactical Marines with veteran sergeant in 5th Edition cost the same as in 4th Edition. Every added Space Marine, however, actually became a point more expansive! In return, one could now add single Marines on top of the basic 5, allowing oddly numbered units of 7 or 9 Space Marines. Moreover, special and heavy weapons became 5 to 10 points cheaper across the board, making some even free for units of a certain size.
> *6th Edition Codex Dark Angels: 205 points*
> 6th Edition seems to have embraced flexibility above all. As seen, the cost for a basic unit like this is identical to 5th Edition. However, where 5th Edition was a “package-deal” with a veteran sergeant and “free” weapons, the 6th Edition unit is build from a bare-bones unit of 14 pt. Space Marines. However, all options (incl. the veteran sergeant) cost extra. Special and heavy weapons returned to 4th Edition costs (or more in case of the missile launcher).


So, it looks unlikely that point changes are a big thing, as GW hasn't changed them much over the years. However, I would think that what changes they implement will be minor balancing to newer factions/units, Knights, Mechanicus, Guilliman, Chaos.


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## scscofield

Thing is, let's say they cut that cost in half, that's still over 600 points for the mini of that large formation, then with everything else added.....

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## Fallen

I agree with @Roganzar it seems that units that get the biggest point change are either a newer unit (so less testing time) or their role/style is changing to fit their new codex - See Tyranid Warriors from 4th to 5th.


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## Brother Lucian

https://www.warhammer-community.com...mmer-40000-characters-may9gw-homepage-post-4/

New info about characters. Independent characters can no longer join units as the big one.


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## scscofield

Holy shit, it's Herohammer time

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## neferhet

Roganzar said:


> I don't think the points are going to change all that much. Looking at Space Marine Tac Squad, as GW seems to view these as the baseline for everything else. That and I could only find the following information quickly. RESEARCH!!
> 
> A Tactical Marines squad (w/10 men, Veteran Sergeant, flamer and missile launcher) with a dedicated Rhino (basic nothing fancy) is currently 205 points. Now compared to editions back to 4th here, (Space Marine Point Costs Over 3 Editions | Wargaming Hub) the only change is 4th to 5th edition.
> 
> 
> 
> So, it looks unlikely that point changes are a big thing, as GW hasn't changed them much over the years. However, I would think that what changes they implement will be minor balancing to newer factions/units, Knights, Mechanicus, Guilliman, Chaos.


I'd like to point out that in 3rd edition the same tactical squad costed a whopping 250 pts...


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## neferhet

AAAND we have characters...

https://www.warhammer-community.com...mmer-40000-characters-may9gw-homepage-post-4/

Posted 09/05/2017
*New Warhammer 40,000: Characters*










Warhammer 40,000 is chock full of mighty heroes and powerful villains; from the humble Astra Millitarum officer to the Greater Daemons of Chaos, these Characters can profoundly affect the way their army’s troops work on the battlefield. For you gamers, using these Characters correctly can be the difference between victory and defeat.
The way Characters interact with the rest of your army changes fundamentally in this new edition. 
Previously, Independent Characters would join units, and those units would benefit from the Character’s Leadership and certain special rules, while the unit offered protection from enemy fire. Broadly, this worked pretty well, but there was a tendency in more competitive games to see multiple Characters pooled into a single unit, resulting in an all-conquering unkillable mega-unit with a smorgasbord of special rules, a few psychic powers for good measure, and often, some very un-thematic pairings (we’re looking at you, Dark Angels and Space Wolves, running around in your Ravenwing/Thunderwolf units).

So here’s a big thing – Characters can’t join units anymore. The age of the <add prefix>-star is over.
Instead, you’ll tend to find that a lot of Characters will have an ability that affects nearby units with a certain Keyword within a radius of effect. For example, the mysterious Dark Eldar Character Drazhar lets you add 1 to the hit rolls of all friendly Incubi units that are within 6″ in the Fight phase, while the Kroot Shaper allows nearby Kroot to re-roll wound rolls of 1 and share his superior Leadership. 









To counter the fact that these Characters cannot join units and “hide” from enemy fire, there is a rule in the Shooting phase that means you can’t target a Character unless they are the closest enemy model. This represents the difficulty in picking out individuals amidst the maelstrom of battle and applies to all Characters with a Wounds characteristic of 10 or less, including things that previously might not have benefited from any protection. For example, Roboute Guilliman, who has 9 Wounds, can now realistically advance in the centre of a disciplined Space Marines army, directing his troops while remaining relatively safe from incoming weapons fire. Really big heroes, like Magnus the Red, will still need to brave enemy fire, but with, in his case, over a dozen Wounds and a respectable invulnerable save, he holds his own just fine.








The final part of the Character ruleset is Heroic Intervention. This allows Characters near a combat to pile in and attack if the enemy comes close enough, even if they themselves aren’t charged (because your Chaplain’s not just gonna stand there and let your Assault Squad have all the fun now is he?)








These rules, together, mean that you’ll see Characters advancing in the midst of their armies surrounded by groups of units benefiting from their particular expertise – which looks great on the tabletop, reflects the background we all know of the 41st Millennium, and offers some interesting tactical challenges as players try to get the most from their army’s leaders while keeping them alive…
That’s your update for today.
Join us tomorrow when we look at a few more weapon profiles from the upcoming new edition.


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## neferhet

About the new characters rules: remember when in 3rd edition the chaos daemon princes used those pesky psy powers to be untargettable by any weapon (proto-invisibility)? weell... i do. That time has came back, for everyone. Also, their claim to have stopped deathstars is ridiculous: i'll just keep my bunch of characters close by, buffing all my army and charging all togheter, while YOU CANNOT SHOOT THEM (unless they are the nearest target...and you ran out of other units or fukked up the movement phase very good...)
Not liking this one, honestly.


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## darkreever

neferhet said:


> buffing all my army and charging all togheter, while YOU CANNOT SHOOT THEM (unless they are the nearest target...and you ran out of other units or fukked up the movement phase very good...)
> Not liking this one, honestly.


Yeah, and if they charge a squad and wipe them out then they are open to being shot, because they are now likely the closest target. And if they don't kill what they charge then that squad can back off, and those characters can be shot or charged because they are likely now the closest target.

Lets not forget that infantry characters still can only move so fast, and this rule only applies to characters with 10 or fewer wounds.

Sure they can hide, but certainly not forever; and definitely not from a, unsurprisingly, good player.


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## Brother Lucian

A suprise second article has appeared. Makes Guardsmen sound interesting for sure.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/09/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-astra-militarum/

Listen up, Guardsmen! Reecius here to talk to you about the Astra Militarum in the new version of Warhammer 40,000. If your heart beats to the rhythm of boots marching and you love the smell of promethium in the morning, then this article is for you.
The Astra Militarum have a long and storied history. They’re comprised of the nameless, faceless billions of brave souls that take up arms in defence of the Imperium. You have to love the idea of a human having the guts to go toe-to-toe with the myriad horrors the 41st Millennium has to offer, armed only with a trusty lasgun and faith in the Emperor.











Currently, Astra Militarum forces often take to the field with big, sprawling infantry platoons sporting numerous attached Characters to give them bonuses or, at the other end of the scale, as largely mobilised tank armies firing massive guns and obliterating the enemy. This combination of hordes of men and powerful machines is a distinctive aspect of the Astra Militarum playstyle.
However, at the moment, they don’t always play on the tabletop the way they’re represented in the background. Wouldn’t it be awesome if some of those units you so rarely see like Scout Sentinels were suddenly not only good, but great? What if Bullgryns and Rough Riders were actually scary in combat? How about Heavy Weapon Squads that actually provide covering fire to the rest of your men instead of just acting as distractions for enemy units? I am here to tell you that all of these things are true in the new edition!











And the hype train just rolls on! Veterans now are truly seasoned warriors that–while no Adeptus Astartes–are soldiers to be respected. Your squads will no longer pop out of their Chimera, shoot one thing, and then die or run away immediately after the enemy returns fire. Nope, now, with the added “encouraging” presence of a nearby Commissar – which limits the losses of a bad Morale test – Astra Militarum are downright stalwart. Even Ratlings – with their sniper weapons allowing them to pick out and target Characters – will now be reaping a tally on your enemy’s leaders in the name of the Emperor!










But it’s not all about the ground pounders. The tanks of the Imperium have had a rough go of it in the current version of the Warhammer 40,000 ruleset, prone to getting destroyed in one shot or ingloriously throwing a tread going over a bush. But no longer. The tanks are back and better than ever. Leman Russes, for example, have Toughness 8 and a 3+ save, so they won’t be slowing down until they’ve lost half of their 12 Wounds. The tanks of the Imperial Guard will definitely be making their mark on battlefields across the Imperium.










There’s so much more to say! Those of you who are long time Astra Militarum players, like me, are going to be thrilled with what is coming. Models you haven’t used in ages, or perhaps those you’ve had your eye on for years, will now be shining stars in your collection.










But here’s one last little tidbit for you, as no conversation about the Guard would be complete without mentioning Orders. One of the Astra Militarum’s most well-known rules mechanics, Orders work automatically now and provide a variety of bonuses. You have 7 to choose from, but the one I want to discuss is  ‘First Rank, Fire! Second Rank, Fire!’. This now makes a unit of Astra Militarum infantry treat their lasguns and hot-shot lasguns as Rapid Fire 2; that’s 4 shots per Guardsman at half range! Combined with the fact that every weapon has a chance to hit any target, the much-derided lasgun can now be the deadly laser weapon the Emperor’s armies need.
That’ll be all! Dismissed.


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## gen.ahab

neferhet said:


> Awesome





Brother Lucian said:


> Stuff












I really hope they release the books for this prior to me shipping off to school.


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## DaisyDuke

It's all sounding pretty good so far, although I think 40k 8th is going to be a very different beast to the last couple of editions.


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## Khorne's Fist

So let me work this out. 10 guardsmen can now fire 40 shots at a Leman Russ, hitting with 20. I assume the humble lasgun will have a -1 modifier, so 10 will be saved, so 10 dice will be rolled to wound, needing 6s. If my maths is correct (good chance it's not as I'm just off a night shift) there's a good chance that the squad will take 2 wounds off the tank. 

This is the first thing I've seen that I'm not really happy about. No tank should ever be vulnerable to an infantryman's personal weapon.


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## Fallen

Well, if Boltguns are not getting an armor modifier, then I doubt that Lasguns are.


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## Khorne's Fist

Strange. They both had a -1 in the old days.


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## Shandathe

Boltguns aren't getting an armor modifier, no - that was in Weapons. Armor modifiers seem to have been kept in check pretty well, with even the LasCANNON getting no better than a -3. So Orks, Guardsmen and Dark Eldar will finally get some benefit from their saves, and a Terminator is going to be a bitch and a half to down (and will even ignore 1/3rd of Lascannon shots, and on 1d6 damage still has a 1 in 6 chance of living through failing THAT).

So @Khorne's Fist 's tank will take 20 shots, take 3.33 wound on average and fail to save 1.11. That's firmly in "scratching the paint" territory. On average, it's going to take 432 shots from the Guardsmen, so 10.8 turns to kill the thing... And I reckon it'll be shooting back rather more effectively.


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## ntaw

Today's article covering more weapon profiles:



> Today, we’re taking a look at a few of the simple rules changes in the new rules for weapons, but ones that have some pretty cool in-game effects.
> 
> Twin-linked Weapons
> If you play Warhammer 40,000 today, you’ll know that there are a lot of twin-linked weapons about. These let you re-roll to hit dice, making them generally quite reliable, but potentially no more deadly than a single weapon. In the new Warhammer 40,000, twin-linked weapons instead get double the number of shots at half range.
> 
> This is a massive boost to a lot of units. Many vehicles, in particular, are going to be kicking out ruinous amounts of firepower – your Land Raider, for example, almost doubles in effectiveness. With its twin heavy bolters and now utterly lethal godhammer pattern lascannons, it becomes, quite rightly, one of the most powerful models in the game.
> 
> 
> 
> Orks as well, renowned for their habit of twin-linking for “more dakka”, gain a lot of bullets from this change. Just think about the number of shots those Waaagh!-planes will be firing now!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Combi-weapons
> Another type of weapon that is changing is the combi-weapon. While in the current edition you can only shoot the “specialist” portion of the gun once, in the new Warhammer 40,000 you can either shoot both all the time, but at a -1 to hit modifier, or choose to just shoot one with no modifier. This is a pretty awesome boost in power for a lot of elite units like Chaos Terminators, Sternguard and Meganobz – no longer just one-hit-wonders with those shooting attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Explosives
> Warhammer 40,000 has no shortage of things that go ‘boom’. Whereas once these weapons would have used a template, in the new Warhammer 40,000, these are resolved much faster by just using a random number of shots. This represents either how many warriors are caught in the explosion, or how direct the hit is on a larger single-model target. Otherwise, these work exactly as any other shooting.
> 
> 
> 
> Explosives tend to work pretty well now against both numerous infantry and large individual models, but not as well against either dedicated anti-infantry or anti-tank weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We’ll be back tomorrow, with some news on how Datasheets work.


Really liking the new twin-linked and combi-weapon rules! My Baal Predators are quite pleased.


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## scscofield

Very curious as to how poison weapons are going to play out. Don't think they have said yet

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## Khorne's Fist

This would have been nice to see last week when I was putting together my squad of Fallen. I went with two plasma guns in the squad, but combiplasmas would have definitely been a better option in the new edition. I assume points cost will change accordingly.


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## neferhet

Khorne's Fist said:


> This would have been nice to see last week when I was putting together my squad of Fallen. I went with two plasma guns in the squad, but combiplasmas would have definitely been a better option in the new edition. I assume points cost will change accordingly.


If they keep it like AoS the squad options are just "whatever comes out of the box" and you just pay per tranches of MODELS fielded. IIRC (since i stopped playing that game): you pay 100 pts for 10 imperial militiamen. If you give them shields, banner, musician, champion...its only a model limitation. If you own it, you can field it.
I presume it will be the same in Newhammer 40k.
Maybe they will set some limitations, like "the squad can have 1 special weapon and 1 heavy weapon every ten model". something like that.
Since the direction looks to be Aosifiyng the game, i guess this will be the approach.


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## Fallen

WOAH!

The Twin-Linked Heavy bolter is 6 shots? and is 12 shots within 18!? HOLY CRAP!!!!! (therefore a regular heavy bolter is 6 shots?)

Heavy Bolters might have just become my favorite thing for guardsmen.


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## ntaw

PSA: the article has been edited to say that twin-linked weapons are a flat double shots. No more mention of the half range clause.



> If you play Warhammer 40,000 today, you’ll know that there are a lot of twin-linked weapons about. These let you re-roll to hit dice, making them generally quite reliable, but potentially no more deadly than a single weapon. In the new Warhammer 40,000, *twin-linked weapons instead get double the number of shots*.


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## Roganzar

I like what their doing here.
Twin-linking doing double the amount of shots feels more on theme than just rerolling. I understood the idea behind the reroll but this just makes more direct sense.
Combi-weapons are more than one load blown and done now? Awesome! I will totally take that -1 and fire my combi-plasma all over the place.
Explosive weapons are fine. Its simple math that moves the game along. Nothing special to add, so no problem there.


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## Khorne's Fist

neferhet said:


> If they keep it like AoS the squad options are just "whatever comes out of the box" and you just pay per tranches of MODELS fielded. IIRC (since i stopped playing that game): you pay 100 pts for 10 imperial militiamen. If you give them shields, banner, musician, champion...its only a model limitation. If you own it, you can field it.
> I presume it will be the same in Newhammer 40k.
> Maybe they will set some limitations, like "the squad can have 1 special weapon and 1 heavy weapon every ten model". something like that.
> Since the direction looks to be Aosifiyng the game, i guess this will be the approach.


Units like Fallen, Deathwatch and Wolfguard have way too many options to be that blasé with selection limits. They have said there'll be a proper points system in place, so they seem to have learned from the nerd rage that followed the AoS release.


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## Shandathe

There will be both an AOS-like system (presumably for 'at a glance and quick' games) and an actual proper points cost which I suspect will be the only one anyone ever cares about.


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## ntaw

Shandathe said:


> There will be both an AOS-like system (presumably for 'at a glance and quick' games) and an actual proper points cost which I suspect will be the only one anyone ever cares about.


There's three ways to play, as outlined in this article from April. From what I understand it's very much like AoS.


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## Shandathe

... dammit, I could have sworn I saw the info in my previous post somewhere official... yet I'm trying to add the [citation needed] and my Google Fu is failing me.

Edit: I THINK it was among the Adepticon stuff, I've at least found it mentioned on Blood of Kittens which unfortunately isn't exactly an official source...

Edit 2: Relevant bit



> Q: Will points be on launch?
> 
> A: Different ways to point your army. Two different sets of points. Powerlevel: focused on narrative play. Not include upgrades. Gives you a model but more focused on getting you gaming in the story. Matched play: Full granular modes with upgrades and points for upgrades {so standard 40K}.


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## Brother Dextus

ntaw said:


> Really liking the new twin-linked and combi-weapon rules! My Baal Predators are quite pleased.


My templars land raider crusaders are also looking forward to the TL rules affecting the bolter sponsons! 

Hoard?!? What hoard??!?!


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## neferhet

An article was published too early and then removed...
here we go

In Warhammer 40,000, a unit’s rules can be found on its datasheet.
Currently, a lot of these rules will reference universal special rules, and you might need to do some digging to find a specific rule in the main rulebook, or just be really good at memorising a lot of rules.
Not for the new Warhammer 40,000 – universal special rules are out, and all the rules for a unit will appear on its datasheet – no more lugging a demi-library of books to every game night to ensure you have all the rules you need. Even the rules for weapons will be on there for the most common weapons the unit is likely to be equipped with. The best way to show you is with an example. We’ll be using the Rubric Marines Datasheet, as requested by Marco Tonino on our Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page.
Ok, lots going on in there, so let’s look at a few elements.
At the very top right, we have the Troop icon, which represents the unit’s battlefield role. There are actually two ways to use Rubric Marines, either as an Elite choice in a Chaos Space Marines force (maybe belonging to a sorcerer pledged to the Black Legion or a renegade warlord), or if your detachment is pure Thousand Sons, they can be Troops, much like today.
Next to that we have Power Level, which we’ll look at in detail tomorrow, but for the moment, suffice to say that it is a quick and easy mechanism for balancing in less competitive narrative or open play games.
Then we have the unit profile. You can see the Rubric Marine is, perhaps unsurprisingly, quite similar to a Tactical Marine we’ve seen already. These guys are a little slower than their non-dust brothers, whereas the Sorcerer leading the unit is faster and a more deadly close combat fighter with his extra attack.
Wargear options are listed next, along with stats for their weapons. Most units have all their weapons on their datasheet, though some with a lot of options (Space Marine Tactical Squads, for example) will list only the most common.
Next we have Abilities. Universal special rules are out, so any time a unit acts differently to what its stats might indicate, the rules for how will be in here. The bulk of these rules will be written in full, but there might occasionally be an army-wide, or very common rule for a given faction that isn’t, though these will always be in that same publication with page references, to make finding it easy.
After the special abilities and psychic powers are the keywords. There are two types of these.
The first, faction keywords, are what you use when selecting your detachments for a Battle-forged army, and often trigger in-game effects regarding what units gain benefits from certain Characters or can travel in specific Transports.
Other keywords are not involved in selecting an army, and usually have more general battlefield effects – for example, perhaps only Infantry can gain the full benefit of certain types of cover.
So, there are Datasheets and some juicy new Thousand Sons rules to speculate about.
We’ll be back tomorrow to look at points and power levels

 


EDIT: the article is now up on their website

this answers my doubts about point system. We will have a free, "friendly" game, point value and a premium point value in subsequent publications (aka codex), so codex is still a thing, altough under another skin...just like AoS.
It is to be noted that now even the "automaton" marines of tzeentch will suffer morale (unless special shit is involved). This i do not like.


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## ntaw

Shandathe said:


> ... dammit, I could have sworn I saw the info in my previous post somewhere official... yet I'm trying to add the [citation needed] and my Google Fu is failing me.
> 
> Edit: I THINK it was among the Adepticon stuff, I've at least found it mentioned on Blood of Kittens which unfortunately isn't exactly an official source...
> 
> Edit 2: Relevant bit


Can confirm, the interview with GW peeps that happened shortly after announcement stated that there is an 'incremental points system' for Matched play. I didn't get to see it all but I saw that part at least.


----------



## Roganzar

So, in general I like the new datasheets. Everything, or nearly so, is right there. Very nice.
So I guess the Power Rating is our new general point system, (Insert DBZ "over 9000" joke here), but doesn't take into account weapon selection. Which I'm fine with as it seems simpler for friendly games, which is how I usually play, but I guess we shall see a more robust point system for competitive play. 
Which all of that is fine and in general I don't have issues with.

Now issues. First off it looks like psykers may have set powers, (or this is just for low grade psykers like the Aspiring Sorcerer here.) Ahriman and Magnus, and other powerful psykers, better have the option for selecting powers. If they are deadset on set powers per character than they had better be good options. Of which I mean they need to cover more than another form of dakka dakka. They should cover a range of damage, defense, and utility. Ideally with a couple of viable utility options that change things up for a turn forcing the opponent to rethink their strategy.
Other complaint, @neferhet I agree Thousand Sons' dust golems should not be affected by morale. I can, with some effort, conceive of a reason to apply it to them. When a Thousand Sons unit fails a Morale the Sorcerer loses control of those Rubric Marines which fall dormant. This reasoning makes a degree of sense but the Sorcerer should have a way to recover the dormant golems. I would also expect Necrons to have some mechanics like that.


----------



## neferhet

Roganzar said:


> So, in general I like the new datasheets. Everything, or nearly so, is right there. Very nice.
> So I guess the Power Rating is our new general point system, (Insert DBZ "over 9000" joke here), but doesn't take into account weapon selection. Which I'm fine with as it seems simpler for friendly games, which is how I usually play, but I guess we shall see a more robust point system for competitive play.
> Which all of that is fine and in general I don't have issues with.
> 
> Now issues. First off it looks like psykers may have set powers, (or this is just for low grade psykers like the Aspiring Sorcerer here.) Ahriman and Magnus, and other powerful psykers, better have the option for selecting powers. If they are deadset on set powers per character than they had better be good options. Of which I mean they need to cover more than another form of dakka dakka. They should cover a range of damage, defense, and utility. Ideally with a couple of viable utility options that change things up for a turn forcing the opponent to rethink their strategy.
> Other complaint, @neferhet I agree Thousand Sons' dust golems should not be affected by morale. I can, with some effort, conceive of a reason to apply it to them. When a Thousand Sons unit fails a Morale the Sorcerer loses control of those Rubric Marines which fall dormant. This reasoning makes a degree of sense but the Sorcerer should have a way to recover the dormant golems. I would also expect Necrons to have some mechanics like that.


Rog, i'm having an hard time justifying the new morale rule. Its like everyone suddenly get demonic instability. Its gross (to me). I say it now: it will be the true turd of the new edition. I'll houserule the hell out of it. I will never be fine with a rule like that. :laugh:


----------



## Roganzar

neferhet said:


> Rog, i'm having an hard time justifying the new morale rule. Its like everyone suddenly get demonic instability. Its gross (to me). I say it now: it will be the true turd of the new edition. I'll houserule the hell out of it. I will never be fine with a rule like that. :laugh:


Not a fan of it either. However, since its there I decided to thought experiment it with the justification i posted. 
The whole lose a number of units the difference of what you rolled is kind of garbage. I'll see what the proper rules for it look like before tinkering with it.


----------



## Starbuck

Anyone notice that a power sword is now essentially ap 2 (-3 rend) while a power axe is ap3 (-2 rend)?


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Starbuck said:


> Anyone notice that a power sword is now essentially ap 2 (-3 rend) while a power axe is ap3 (-2 rend)?


Those are force weapons rather than power weapons. That might make a difference.


----------



## ntaw

Starbuck said:


> Anyone notice that a power sword is now essentially ap 2 (-3 rend) while a power axe is ap3 (-2 rend)?


While I can't comment on whatever rend is, strength going up while armour modifier goes down makes sense without Initiative or the Unwieldy rule. I see it as representative of the defender having a subtly better chance of a last second blow deflection because the weapon is slower moving but stronger.

Willing to bet standard power weapon profiles will be the same but only do 1 damage instead of D3 (since I'm assuming the Force power no longer exists).


----------



## neferhet

Khorne's Fist said:


> Those are force weapons rather than power weapons. That might make a difference.


If i had to make a guess, i'd say that the only difference between power and Force are 1 dmg against D3 dmg


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## Shandathe

*Eyes Rubrics* They're definitely more elite than normal Tactical Marines. It looks like the unit got hit with the nerfbat a bit overall as while that is a scary set of -AP weapons, it's nowhere near as lethally dangerous to MEQ as they used to be. This is offset by the fact that they'll be more effective against TEQ than they were. With the other weapon profiles we've seen, this edition appears to attempt to restore the Armour Save to its proper level. I think the new balance will be an interesting one.
@Roganzar , give them a few days to put an actual Psyker up. This guy barely qualifies. With EVERY Psyker getting (proper) Smite, the Aspiring Sorceror is effectively Master Level 1/2 now. I suspect the full Sorcerors will kick all sorts of Psychic ass, but it seems "Aspiring Sorceror" now emphasizes the 'Aspiring'.

Which is probably a good thing, given that he's a Troops sergeant equivalent...


----------



## darkreever

Roganzar said:


> I agree Thousand Sons' dust golems should not be affected by morale.


Its not going to be nearly as bad as some people are, or will, make it out to be.

Just some quick math, of a unit of 10 space marines fighting a unit of Thousand Sons in close combat; with the sergeant using a power sword.

Assuming the sergeant has 2 attacks, 1.34 hit, .67 wound, the invulnerable save is better at this point so .45 unsaved wounds.

9 attacks from the remaining marines, 6 hits, 3 wounds, 1 unsaved wound.

Thats 1-2 losses, meaning the Thousand Sons would not lose anyone to morale.


Against something that chews through a squads ranks, I'd sooner assume the losses from morale are more of that squads number being taken out, not fleeing. Imagine a unit of Thousand Sons vs Guilliman on a murderous rampage; he's not letting anyone get away.


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## neferhet

darkreever said:


> Its not going to be nearly as bad as some people are, or will, make it out to be.
> 
> Just some quick math, of a unit of 10 space marines fighting a unit of Thousand Sons in close combat; with the sergeant using a power sword.
> 
> Assuming the sergeant has 2 attacks, 1.34 hit, .67 wound, the invulnerable save is better at this point so .45 unsaved wounds.
> 
> 9 attacks from the remaining marines, 6 hits, 3 wounds, 1 unsaved wound.
> 
> Thats 1-2 losses, meaning the Thousand Sons would not lose anyone to morale.
> 
> 
> Against something that chews through a squads ranks, I'd sooner assume the losses from morale are more of that squads number being taken out, not fleeing. Imagine a unit of Thousand Sons vs Guilliman on a murderous rampage; he's not letting anyone get away.


that is only the melee. if in the previous phase they got shoot by the same unit of marines they would have lose another 1-2 models. and even the chance of losing 1-2 extra models due to "morale" is disturbing, to me. Unjustified. But, oh well, we'll house rule.


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## Serpion5

I suggest you play a few games with the full rules intact before you go crazy with the houseruling. You may find that you inadvertently unbalance a game quite significantly by tinkering with the core rules to such a degree. 

I'm personally more in favour of simply imagining a plausible scenario for why it applies, rather than taking it as "morale" at face value. For Rubric Marines a lapse in the sorcerer's own control makes sense easily enough. A ritual is required to re-inter these individuals once they have been destroyed, so it is entirely feasible that a moment of uncertainty after heavy casualties could cause the sorcerer to momentarily lose focus. It need not be because of actual fear at all. 

Necrons are a different matter. I have no problem with necrons suffering morale, as most necrons of Immortal rank and above are aware enough to remember fear. Even the basic necron warriors still possess a tiny glimmer of self awareness, so it isn't impossible for their fractured mind to periodically succumb to the terror of their own long since lost mortality.


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## Shandathe

Agreed, the main thing to keep in mind with morale is that while you'll be losing additional men/women/others it's not necessarily due to them running away. Much like normal casualties, they might not be entirely dead either - we just note they're out of the fight for one reason or another.


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## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Eldar*​
Reece helps runs some of the biggest independent Warhammer 40,000 events in the world, including the Las Vegas Open and the recently announced Southern California Open. Like Frankie, he’s also been part of the playtest team for the new edition of Warhammer 40,000, putting in hundreds of hours to make sure this new edition will be great for all you gamers out there (Thanks Reece!).

He knows what he’s talking about when it comes to Warhammer 40,000, so let’s see what he has so say…



Reece: The enigmatic Aeldari of the Craftworlds have been granted new hope thanks to the birth of Ynnead, but what should we expect from them in new Warhammer 40,000 in regards to playstyle?

The Craftworld Aeldari, one of the most iconic races in the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium, have had a long and storied journey through the history of the game. They have been waging a battle for survival since before the Emperor was a gleam in humanity’s collective eye, and they have been forced to do whatever is necessary to achieve that goal.

Eldar currently bring a plethora of powerful tools to the tabletop: potent psykers, the indomitable Wraithknight, blisteringly fast Warp Spiders and, of course, the infamous scatter laser equipped Windrider Jetbikes. The Eldar player has more powerful options available to them than they know what to do with. Ironically though, among all those tools, we tend to see the same units pop up frequently while many mainstay units languish on the shelf.

Wouldn’t it be fun to see more of iconic units such as the Phoenix Lords and their Aspect Warriors? The Avatar of Khaine? Well, I am here to tell you that all of these units have their place on the tabletops of the new Warhammer 40,000.

Phoenix Lords, especially, will benefit from a nice 2+ armour save. They’ve all been re-pointed to make all of the choices appealing, and they are more well-rounded – not only tearing bloody swathes through enemy combatants but also boosting the abilities of friendly warriors nearby. Asurman, specifically, is just fantastic, with the Sword of Asur able to deal mortal wounds and nearby friendly units benefiting from an invulnerable save!

Whether you want to play an Iyanden Ghost list with legions of silent Wraith-constructs (who you will be quite pleased with!) led by Spiritseers wielding potent Runes of Battle psychic powers, or an Alaitoc army of Rangers led by Illic, you can… and they’re good!



You’ll recognise many of the same elements from your current army as well: high mobility with army-wide special rules such as Battle Focus, and of course the classic powers such as Guide, Doom and Fortune.

You’ll also be happy to see multiple playstyles available to you. From infantry (and you all know I love my “Footdar” army!) to mechanised, to psyker heavy to totally psyker absent. You won’t feel shoehorned into a single build style but can exercise your creativity and field the army you desire.



But as stated earlier, what makes me most excited, as a long time Eldar player, is the new viability of some of the most enduringly beautiful models in the range. Striking Scorpions particularly are just vicious combatants that will strike fear into your opponent and disrupt their battle plans with the Masters of Stealth special rule and their Mandiblasters softening up enemy units at the beginning of the Fight phase by dishing out mortal wounds.



Howling Banshees get a new lease on life too. These girls are now faster than almost any other Infantry unit in the game, and nearly always get to go first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge.

I’d be remiss, though, not to mention the man himself: the Avatar of Khaine. With an ability that means he can even ignore some mortal wounds, he’ll be better protected than ever while filling your army with the fighting spirit of Kaela Mensha Khaine! If any unfortunate soul survives to challenge him directly, I can tell you, there are few models that can deal as much melee damage as the Avatar can with the Wailing Doom, which allows you to pick the highest of two dice rolls when dealing damage. Even Roboute Guilliman must tread cautiously with this adversary. As a bit of a sneak peek, take a look at his iconic weapon – the Wailing Doom to see what we mean:



There’s so much more to say, but for now, we’ve come to the end of today’s article.

I hope all of you are as excited as I am for the future of the Craftworlds in the new Warhammer 40,000.


----------



## scscofield

I wish they were more specific in those faction focus bits. They sound like Trump going on and on a out how awesome his wall will be.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Brother Dextus

scscofield said:


> I wish they were more specific in those faction focus bits. They sound like Trump going on and on a out how awesome his wall will be.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



@realGWHQ "New 40k will be better than any previous edition, there are no negative comments at all and the community pages are always correct. Anyone saying otherwise is just fake news. Fake news is bad, and it funds terrorism."


----------



## scscofield

From https://www.warhammer-community.com...-points-power-levels-may12gw-homepage-post-4/

*New Warhammer 40,000: Points & Power Levels*










In the new Warhammer 40,000, you’ll find there are two ways to balance your games.
Yesterday, we saw that Datasheets include something called a Power Level. This is a rough approximation of a unit’s relative effectiveness on the battlefield. These can be used to very quickly throw together two roughly equal forces to fight a battle. Or, in the case of some narrative and open play scenarios, will determine who takes what role in the game. For example, if you’re playing the “Ambush” mission, the side with the highest total Power Level for their army will always play the role of the attacker, where the smaller enemy force will need to escape the trap.
 

Power Levels are a great way to very quickly get a roughly balanced game organised and started, but they do not account for the various wargear options and upgrades a unit can have. For this level of granularity, you have points. These will be just as detailed as they are now, right down to points for individual weapon upgrades on every squad member. For example, a Tactical Marine Squad of five models is Power Level 5, but in a matched play game, each of those Tactical Marines would cost 13 points each, with upgrades ranging from a grav-pistol for the Sergeant at 7 pts, all the way up to multi-meltas at 27 pts. The full squad totals up at a similar number of points to what it costs today. With faster play times for most games, we’re expecting matched play games of a couple of hours to sit around the 2,000 points mark.








In matched play, your points will be capped across the whole game. So if you’re planning to summon units to the battlefield, you will need to set points aside to do this. You won’t need to specify what the points will be for though, so this does leave you with your options open and if during the game, you decide that what you really need is a fast combat unit instead of a durable objective holder, you’ll be able to summon the right tool for the job, points permitting. You will no longer be able to indefinitely replicate Daemon units, and instead, summoning will be used more as an alternative mechanism of deployment, much like deep striking or outflanking is today (both of which exist in their own forms in the new Warhammer 40,000 too).
The points for units don’t appear on the datasheet but will be elsewhere in the same book. This is because you don’t need them to play if you don’t want, which frees up room to include more rules for weapons on the datasheet. It also means that, in the future, points for units could change without invalidating existing books – so if one unit or weapon starts to dominate tournaments, or certain units don’t seem to be carrying their weight in competitive games, we can address the balance.








All cool stuff. We’ll be back tomorrow with another piece of new background from the new edition.


----------



## scscofield

No more summon spam and points will most likely stay very close to what they are now for the newer armies since the tac squad is staying mostly the same in cost.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this means that if you leave 200pts in reserve, and have the units available, you can decide which unit, be it an assault, tactical or HS unit, to bring on, so long as the final points total you have on the table does not exceed the game limit? That's actually pretty cool.


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## scscofield

Yeah, that's how I was reading it too. While it limits what spam was, it seems to make it much more defined and adaptable to the situation to me.


----------



## Fallen

Khorne's Fist said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but this means that if you leave 200pts in reserve, and have the units available, you can decide which unit, be it an assault, tactical or HS unit, to bring on, so long as the final points total you have on the table does not exceed the game limit? That's actually pretty cool.


I think the 200 points is for summoning. In that you cannot summon past your starting army, so instead of building a 2k army + Summoning, you fielding a 1500 army with (500) as summoned points.

For instance a "summoned" unit for the Imperium could be LotD... or Kaldor Draigo?

----

That said if Summoning works across the board and it's effectively Deep Strike, then I might be worried, but if it is curtailed a lot so that it's more a Chaos kind of thing I would be very happy.

----

If you put a unit of terminators in reserve/deep strike/out flank then it will still be terminators.


----------



## DaisyDuke

More good stuff, roll on release date! I'm still thinking warhammer fest.


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## Khorne's Fist

Fallen said:


> If you put a unit of terminators in reserve/deep strike/out flank then it will still be terminators.


I'm not sure you do put a specific unit in reserve, my read is that you put a portion of your points in reserves, and then get to spend them on whatever is most useful when the time comes to bring them on. Otherwise why mention it at all? They just mentioned that summoning is no longer an endless supply of units, just another way to bring reserves onto the board.

EDIT: Read that paragraph again, I think you might be right. It does mention summoning a lot.


----------



## scscofield

The way I read it, the point pool bit only applies to summons....


----------



## Shandathe

Interesting to me is some of the indicated point shifts, the smallest of which actually worries me. 

A basic Tactical Marine is 13 points now. That was 14. Quite frankly, I'd hoped they'd take the opportunity to multiply all the previous edition's points by at least 2 so they could add some better granularity for troops and call 4000 the new 'normal' points total. 

Instead we're continuing the race to the bottom.

The costs of that 5 man Tactical Squad has been steadily ticking down. It was 90 points in 5th, 70 in 7th, it's now going to be 5 x 13 = 65. Which is the cost of units like Dire Avengers which can't take the Tacticals in a fair fight, so THOSE will have to be dropped in price, and so on... And because there's just not that many positive integers under 13 we get things sharing the same points cost that really, really shouldn't.


On an aside, it looks like Grav took a nerf bat hit.


----------



## Serpion5

Shandathe said:


> The costs of that 5 man Tactical Squad has been steadily ticking down. It was 90 points in 5th, 70 in 7th, it's now going to be 5 x 13 = 65. Which is the cost of units like Dire Avengers which can't take the Tacticals in a fair fight, so THOSE will have to be dropped in price, and so on... And because there's just not that many positive integers under 13 we get things sharing the same points cost that really, really shouldn't.


I remember reading a while back that points costs are not weighed against other armies' units, but are balanced internally within each faction. The faction's overall effectiveness is used to determine these points costs against other armies, and will be adjusted as needed during playtesting well before a new codex is released. 

Imbalances happen because over time core rules can change, newer codexes introduce newer wargears, and models can be released with new rules independent of codexes, which can affect the balance of certain units. 

I'm expecting this edition to be fairly balanced from the get go, however at the bottom of that article they said they were prepared to address points imbalances as time went on. So either way, I'm not concerned.


----------



## Shandathe

My point isn't so much that the balance will be off initially, it is that setting a Tactical Marine to 13 means the low end of points gets cluttered a LOT and granularity is missing. It's a lost opportunity to reset the low end point cost (mainly of infantry) to something higher that will make it far easier to actually address point imbalances later.

Example: 

Bog standard Ork Boyz are currently 6 points each. If it turns out they need help, would you drop them to 5? That's a sixth off their cost, that'll likely imbalance them the other way. 

Gretchin at 3 points each... Can't really go up to 4 as a nerf (+33%) or down to 2 (-50%) to help them, or you're likely to make any problem they have far worse in the other direction.

Up the costs by a factor 4 and your Tactical Marine will now be 52 points instead of 13, the Ork Boy will cost 24 and the Gretchin 12. Suddenly, there's some breathing room in the system to make adjustments WITHOUT making things worse.


----------



## Fallen

That's an interesting point of view.

I think I actually like that.


----------



## neferhet

Shandathe said:


> My point isn't so much that the balance will be off initially, it is that setting a Tactical Marine to 13 means the low end of points gets cluttered a LOT and granularity is missing. It's a lost opportunity to reset the low end point cost (mainly of infantry) to something higher that will make it far easier to actually address point imbalances later.
> 
> Example:
> 
> Bog standard Ork Boyz are currently 6 points each. If it turns out they need help, would you drop them to 5? That's a sixth off their cost, that'll likely imbalance them the other way.
> 
> Gretchin at 3 points each... Can't really go up to 4 as a nerf (+33%) or down to 2 (-50%) to help them, or you're likely to make any problem they have far worse in the other direction.
> 
> Up the costs by a factor 4 and your Tactical Marine will now be 52 points instead of 13, the Ork Boy will cost 24 and the Gretchin 12. Suddenly, there's some breathing room in the system to make adjustments WITHOUT making things worse.


the Gw claim of "being able of adjusting things" is obviously bullshit. Its a way to make us pay to play (just like now). Also, more point means less models. Look what happened between 2nd and 3rd edition: halved points to allow double models. They will never again make a marine cost more than 15 pts.


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## scscofield

I think the adjusting points is them finally admitting that the game has balance issues at time and that they plan to work on this. As for the whole points cost thing, I honestly don't see them dicking with the base unit cost of everything that much. I think they will make the upgrades the way they will adjust for balance.


----------



## Serpion5

The whole system has been revamped. I really don't think points are going to be too huge of an issue anymore. 

Honestly, I think AP values have been a massive clusterfuck of imbalancing things. You pay however many points for a missile launcher or an autocannon and there are still models walking around that don't give a fuck because your AP rating isn't good enough to make any difference to their 2+ armour save. So you're spending points on heavy weapons that against armies like Custodes, Deathwing or a lot of Grey Knight builds simply won't matter. 

Likewise on the opposite side, you can spend the extra points on a lascannon or multi-melta, and the heavier points cost incurred is overkill against the kinds of models you'll target that only have a 3+ armour save or worse, like pretty much every tyranid monster there is. 

AP being replaced by Rend is going to go a long way to fixing these issues, ensuring that the points costs they put on these weapons won't ever be for nothing. That I feel, was a huge factor in imbalanced points in codexes, and now it's gone. 

Once again, I am going to see how this all plays out before I make any effort to find faults that may not even matter.


----------



## Haskanael

Serpion5 said:


> The whole system has been revamped. I really don't think points are going to be too huge of an issue anymore.
> 
> Honestly, I think AP values have been a massive clusterfuck of imbalancing things. You pay however many points for a missile launcher or an autocannon and there are still models walking around that don't give a fuck because your AP rating isn't good enough to make any difference to their 2+ armour save. So you're spending points on heavy weapons that against armies like Custodes, Deathwing or a lot of Grey Knight builds simply won't matter.
> 
> Likewise on the opposite side, you can spend the extra points on a lascannon or multi-melta, and the heavier points cost incurred is overkill against the kinds of models you'll target that only have a 3+ armour save or worse, like pretty much every tyranid monster there is.
> 
> AP being replaced by Rend is going to go a long way to fixing these issues, ensuring that the points costs they put on these weapons won't ever be for nothing. That I feel, was a huge factor in imbalanced points in codexes, and now it's gone.
> 
> Once again, I am going to see how this all plays out before I make any effort to find faults that may not even matter.


I love how you are one of the few voices of calm and sanity I hear on the new edition, most people I hear and read from about it are halfway panicking and already declaring house rules on near everything.


----------



## darkreever

That's because those people fear any real change.


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## Shandathe

Most people in this thread seem remarkably laid back and accepting, actually. There's some distaste for some of the changes, and some wishing that they'd put a little more thought into things here and there, sure. 

Remarkably little shouting that the new edition is shit and serious ragequitting, though. Especially remarkable since 7th has honestly been a pretty good edition.


----------



## Serpion5

Shandathe said:


> Remarkably little shouting that the new edition is shit and serious ragequitting, though. Especially remarkable since 7th has honestly been a pretty good edition.


I started with 4th, and I honestly thought that was the best edition until 7th came out. Always however, did I feel that the AP system wasn't really as comprehensive as the save modifiers used by WHF. 

Now we have that. I am absolutely anticipating 8th edition to be a huge improvement based on that alone. Nothing else I've read has come across as any kind of detrimental to me at all.


----------



## ntaw

Shandathe said:


> Most people in this thread seem remarkably laid back and accepting, actually.


I've only seen people frothing at the lips on forums, of my local gaming group (~120 people at this point) it ranges from "little kid high on sugar" level excitement to "give me the damn rules already" impatience. There's one guy who is mildly perturbed (if it ain't broke don't fix it sort) that 30k is getting an 8th ed. makeover but he doesn't count :laugh:

Every mechanic I've seen about 8th so far just looks like everything is going to be more "what it should be" on the tabletop, and the idea of keeping Matched play points costs separate from the core rules for post-release balancing is brilliant in my books. It definitely looks and sounds like GW's done a ton of testing and listening to the community and we're going to be rewarded with a game that kicks all kinds of ass and doesn't take three hours to sort out a 20+ ML point psychic phase and artillery barrages stacked on top of Look Out Sir rolls.

Onward and upward, GW :victory:


----------



## Brother Lucian

https://www.warhammer-community.com...00-war-zone-damocles-may13gw-homepage-post-4/

*New Warhammer 40,000 – War Zone: Damocles*

Another new bit of Warhammer 40,000 lore from the new edition for you today.
The Damocles Gulf has been a hotly contested region for the century, with the T’au Empire seeking to expand its territory and locking horns with well established, but hard-pressed Imperial forces. The war has been bloody on both sides with the death of a Space Marine Chapter Master answered with the assassination of key Ethereal personnel – there’s a lot of bad blood.

The Imperium, seeking a swift resolution to the conflict in the face of mounting pressures elsewhere, used a pretty drastic solution at the finale of the last campaign – launching world-ending incendiaries into the nebulae of gases across the war zone, effectively setting fire to the entire Damocles Gulf and denying it to both sides!
Problem solved, right?

Wrong. 
The Cicatrix Maledictum, the great warp rift that split the galaxy in half, snuffed out the multi-system-spanning firestorm – the war for the Damocles Gulf is back on! With the Imperial defenders pressed hard on every front from Chaos incursions, reemergent Necron dynasties, and ravenous Tyranid hive fleets, the T’au were quick to react to the new opportunity. They launched their Fifth Sphere Expansion to fight back against these terrors of the galaxy, seeking out new worlds and claiming more territory for the Greater Good.

Wait, fifth? What happened to number four?
Yeah, about that. So, the dynamic and ever optimistic T’au might have been a little over-eager to embark on a new expansion. 
The Fourth Sphere Expansion fleet set off almost immediately once the fires in the Gulf had subsided, but with the Great Rift still raging through that region of space, all contact with them was soon lost. Were they all killed by some unknown attacker(s)? Did they just lose contact due to interference? Perhaps they entered the Warp – intentionally or not – becoming lost (or worse) in the violent empyrean tides? Maybe they will yet be found, or emerge somewhere unexpected in the galaxy, a lost portion of this optimistic new empire ever intent on conquest…

We’ll have to wait and see. 
Tomorrow, we’ll have more from the new Warhammer 40,000 rules when we look at Stratagems.






So the Tau just got a get-out-of-jail card, with the Crimson Path snuffing out the damocles gulf inferno. I wonder where the lost fourth fleet will end up, but im expecting a new branch of the Tau empire to appear in a new place in the galaxy.


----------



## ntaw

Brother Lucian said:


> I wonder where the lost fourth fleet will end up, but im expecting a new branch of the Tau empire to appear in a new place in the galaxy.


There was that snippet from an article that said some areas felt centuries pass in moments, things are getting pretty timey-wimey in 40k these days. 

Three more warzones to go: Ultramar (Nids, Orks, Chaos), Baal (Nids, Chaos, likely Necron allies), and Fenris (SW featured in the nu-marine teaser video).


----------



## Brother Lucian

ntaw said:


> There was that snippet from an article that said some areas felt centuries pass in moments, things are getting pretty timey-wimey in 40k these days.
> 
> Three more warzones to go: Ultramar (Nids, Orks, Chaos), Baal (Nids, Chaos, likely Necron allies), and Fenris (SW featured in the nu-marine teaser video).


What have temporal distortions to do with the tau?


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## ntaw

The Fourth Sphere of Expansion set out asap after the space fire went out, is it so unreasonable that contact was lost with them because they got caught in a temporal distortion?


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## Brother Lucian

ntaw said:


> The Fourth Sphere of Expansion set out asap after the space fire went out, is it so unreasonable that contact was lost with them because they got caught in a temporal distortion?


Ah, I see what you meant. Though Tau have never had good warp tech and flying blindly into the biggest warpstorm ever is surely likely to send you on a star trek Voyager like trip across the galaxy.


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## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Chaos Daemons​*Frankie from the SoCal Open is back, Warhammer Community readers!



Today I am here to spread the good word about the various Chaos Gods. Have you accepted our dark lords as your masters?

First, our mighty lord, Khorne. Khorne is not what you’d call a complex deity. His desires are straightforward: blood and skulls! Next you have Tzeentch, the god of knowledge and self-growth…as in growing a few extra limbs and growing knowledge of forbidden lore that will drive you insane by learning it. Slaanesh is the lord of excess, and the followers of She Who Thirsts are all about (over)indulgence. Lastly, you have the happiest of the Chaos Gods, Nurgle. He brings entropy to the universe with a laugh and a smile, sharing his many generous gifts of flesh-melting diseases and fly-blown poxes.

Chaos Daemons are one of the most powerful armies currently in Warhammer 40,000. You’ve got large Screamer units running around with re-rollable 2+ invulnerable saves due to the various bonuses available to them, Daemon Princes flying around the table blasting people with mind bullets, Pink Horrors splitting into Blue into Brimstones. If that weren’t enough, legions of fresh Daemons can currently be summoned onto the tabletop from the Warp at no points cost.

Daemons also currently control the Psychic phase with what feels like millions of Warp charge dice. And I know I am not the only one who loses track of the incredible complexity of the Daemon army. A Daemons player currently rolls on several charts before the game starts to find out what their army does – it feels like you need a flowchart sometimes. 

But what about Daemons in the new Warhammer 40,000? Let’s run through this preview one god at a time, shall we?

Khorne blesses his devotees with an increased ability to reap skulls in his name. These models charge up the table taking skulls for the Skull Throne with Unstoppable Ferocity, which grants them a bonus attack and a point of Strength in combat if they charge or are charged. This turns already formidable melee units into killing machines! Your Bloodthirster will be a king of melee when he charges, as he should be.

Tzeentch grants his minions the ability of Ephemeral Form, giving his Daemons +1 to their invulnerable saves. Wow, that’s good! A Lord of Change with that boost will be quite powerful indeed, with a 4+ invulnerable save and SIXTEEN wounds!

Your opponents will come to fear not just the big models though, as even your basic Horrors have the ability to lay low even the mightiest of enemies with their psychic might. You will want to include several units of these in your Tzeentch army to deal with some of the tougher enemy units out there.

Save some Reinforcement Points for Blue Horrors and Brimstone Horrors as well, as these still split out of their parent unit like a series of Russian Dolls and are great for grabbing objectives and keeping enemy units busy long after other units would have been destroyed.

Slaanesh is all about speed, baby. They will almost always swing first in combat, even if they did not charge, due to their Quicksilver Swiftness special rule! This means even relatively fragile units such as Daemonettes can be a threat at all times. They’re one of my favourite units – I own nearly 100 of them at present (I might have a problem) – and I can’t wait to get them on the table.

The good news is that these crab-armed warriors are absolutely lethal, especially if taken in units of twenty or more models. In large units like this, the Graceful Killers special rule grants them a bonus attack with their Piercing Claws (which are resolved at AP-4 when you roll a 6+ to wound!) allowing them to slice through armour in melee.

Last, but certainly not least, we’ve got Papa Nurgle and his motley crew. Probably the coolest models in the Nurgle Daemon line are the Nurglings, in my opinion. These little buggers were often taken in the past just to fulfil the Troop requirement, but in the new Warhammer 40,000, they will be taken for their ability to deploy near enemy models and engage them quickly, tying them up or simply getting in their way using their Mischief Makers special rule. That would normally be a very dangerous proposition for a unit of little guys, but the children of Nurgle are Disgustingly Resilient – which means they ignore wounds on a roll of 5 or 6! 

Well, that is all we have on the Daemons faction in the new Warhammer 40,000 for today. I hope you all enjoyed the read and are looking forward to spreading the dominion of the Dark Gods to a tabletop near you!


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## scscofield

From https://www.warhammer-community.com...mer-40000-stratagems-may14gw-homepage-post-4/

*New Warhammer 40,000: Stratagems*










Stratagems are a key part of the new Warhammer 40,000 game.
These represent your army’s commanders marshalling their forces and vital orders coming down from high command (that’s you!).








Any army that is Battle-forged can use Stratagems, and as we’ve established already, it’s very easy to make a Battle-forged army. If your army is Battle-forged by the current rules of Warhammer 40,000, it still can be in the new edition.
Battle-forged armies earn Command Points based on how efficient they are likely to be at the logistics of war. Armies with a balanced mix of unit types and plenty of troops will tend to have more to play with, and every army that is Battle-forged gets 3 Command Points to start with. Some units are such capable and experienced commanders that they give you additional Command Points just by including them. Bjorn the Fell-Handed, for example, the oldest living(ish) loyalist Space Marine, gets you an extra one just for showing up!








As the game plays on, you can use these Command Points to activate a variety of Stratagems. Many of these will be specific to certain missions or factions, but there are three that every army can use:
 

As you can see, these abilities are nothing to scoff at. That Tactical Re-roll can be used to ensure a critical high-damage attack wounds a key enemy unit. But at the same time, your opponent could just as easily use theirs to re-roll that critical armour save. Or maybe you want to keep ahold of them to make sure you make that vital charge next turn?
Are you expecting to lose half of your biggest Ork squad to a punishing Morale test after taking heavy casualties in the Shooting phase? Not anymore! Auto-pass for 2 CPs.
The Counter-offensive is pretty huge too, with the ability to interrupt your opponent’s battlefield-wide charge to strike ahead of some of their units. It works best, of course, if your units are tough in a fight and at least one of the enemy units is going first, but used correctly, this can swing a game.








In narrative and open play, most missions will include a few extra stratagems too, representing things like preliminary bombardments, proximity mines and silenced weapons.
In matched play, these Stratagems have the additional restriction that the same Stratagem cannot be used by the same player more than once during any single phase. So, if you use that Command Re-roll to pass an armour save in the Fight phase, you can’t then use that same Stratagem to re-roll a hit later in the phase.
So there you go: Stratagems.
We’ll be back tomorrow with news from the Indomitus Crusade.


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## Brother Lucian

Looking forward to news on the Indomitus crusade. I think everyone is twitching to know more about the new marines.


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## Khorne's Fist

A New Breed of Hero


(Use epic movie trailer voice)

For the past 10,000 years, the galaxy has been defended by the awesome might of the Adeptus Astartes – warriors whose origins date back to the gene-forging of the Space Marine Legions on ancient Terra, before even the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy that followed it.

Over the millennia, some have tried to emulate the process of creating Space Marines, both for good and evil, but none have managed to equal the genius of the Emperor’s finished creation.

Until today.






For ten centuries, Archmagos Dominus Belisarius Cawl has been working on a task set for him by the Primarch Roboute Guilliman: a new legion of warriors. Now, though the Imperium is poised on the brink of annihilation, his task is complete…

The Primaris Space Marine is a new breed of hero for this, the darkest age in the Imperium’s history. These new warriors are the next step in the evolution of the Emperor’s Angels of Death – genetically altered from their brethren to be bigger, stronger and faster – timely reinforcements to the Imperium’s armies as their enemies close in for the kill.

To aid them in battle, these new gene-forged warriors are equipped with new arms and armour forged on holy Mars itself.



The Primaris Space Marine here is an Intercessor wearing Mk X Tacticus armour, a suit that combines the most effective elements of ancestral Horus Heresy patterns of plate with more recent developments in power armour technology. He carries into battle a bolt rifle: the archetypal firearm of Space Marines, re-engineered, re-crafted and perfected*.

At the dawn of the Indomitus Crusade, these phenomenal new warriors join Guilliman as he fights to liberate the scattered bastions of the Imperium. Some, Guilliman has forged into new Space Marine Chapters, whole brotherhoods comprised only of these new warriors. Others he has offered to the existing Space Marine Chapters. Many Chapter Masters have welcomed their Primaris brethren into their ranks, accepting the new reinforcements gladly. Others, though, view these new creations with suspicion or outright hostility, claiming that the Emperor’s work should not have been meddled with.

Though they are a step removed from their brothers, the Primaris Space Marines still bear the gene-seed of their Primarchs, and some dissenting voices worry how this new type of warrior will react with the known genetic quirks and flaws of some of the more unusual Chapters…

*Range 30, Strength 4, AP -1 and Rapid Fire.
Exciting times! The Primaris Space Marines sound like they are going to kick serious face in the far future. Classic Guilliman, playing the long game with this ace up his power-armoured sleeve the whole time he was in stasis. The newly triumphant forces of Chaos had better watch out.

So what does this mean for you gamers and collectors out there and your Space Marine armies? Well, we’ve made this FAQ that explains exactly how this new breed of warriors fit into your collections. For those of you curious as to exactly how these new Space Marines work in the game, we’ll have more details on that later today, so stay posted.


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## Khorne's Fist

A whole new type of Space Marines! That might just be the most exciting thing to happen to the Imperium since Roboute Guilliman woke up from his 10,000 year nap and decided to save the galaxy. But what does their arrival mean? How will it affect your collection or army? What modelling options will you have? Read on to find out.

So, what’s a Primaris Space Marine?

These are a brand-new breed of warrior, commissioned by the Primarch Guilliman and developed in secret on Mars for the past 10,000 years by Archmagos Belisarius Cawl. Find out all about them and check out an awesome video here.

Are all my current Space Marine miniatures redundant now?

No way! Primaris Space Marines do not replace regular (if a superhuman killing machine can be described as ‘regular’) Space Marines. These guys have a few extra genetic enhancements, thanks to Belisarius Cawl, and serve as additional reinforcements in the Adeptus Astartes arsenal, not replacements.

Will there be multiple types of Primaris Space Marines?

You bet. So far you’ve seen the Intercessors, the line infantry clad in Mk X armour, but there are plenty more on the way. And likely vehicles too…

Wait, Mk X armour?

Yup, these guys have new armour: combining the best bits of classic Horus Heresy-era plate, with some fancy tech developed more recently.

Can I field a whole army of Primaris Marines?

You totally can. From a background point of view, some Chapters, especially those decimated in the events of the Gathering Storm, now have entire companies of these new warriors. Others have incorporated squads of Primaris Space Marines into existing Battle Companies. And perhaps most excitingly, Guilliman has founded some entirely new Chapters out of these new Space Marines.

I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?

Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves.

So, Primaris are just better in the game, right? What’s the point of using older Space Marines?

Marine to Marine, they certainly have some advantages over a Tactical Squad, but it comes at a cost. These guys will cost more points than standard Space Marines, so you’ll have fewer of them, and their weapon options will be different. For maximum tactical punch, you’ll want to bring all your Space Marines to the tabletop.

What if I don’t want to use them?

Well, aside from missing out on some cool new models and tactical options for your army, then that’s totally cool. You certainly don’t have to include Primaris Space Marines in your Space Marines army. Though when you see the Primaris Redemptor Dreadnought, you’ll want to. Primaris Dreadnought? Did I write that…? Nah. Moving on.

Are the kits compatible with existing Space Marine kits?

Good Question. There are certainly elements of the existing Space Marines kits that will be cross-compatible, while the new armour mark means that some parts won’t mix as easily. Shoulder pads and helmets are the same scale, and will still work, whereas the legs, torso and arms are different, and not quite as interchangeable. In terms of the Primaris sets themselves, you’ll have loads of fun kit-bashing them.

Can I use these guys alongside my Astra Militarum army?

Yeah you can. These new Space Marines will be available to use alongside all Imperial armies to fill some battlefield roles your army might normally struggle with.

Do the Primaris Space Marines play nice with the Adeptus Custodes?

They sure do. Many of the Emperor’s elite golden guard are accompanying Gulliman and the Primaris Space Marines on the Indomitus Crusade.

But I play Chaos! Where are my super-super-human reinforcements?

First off, that’ll teach you for turning your back on the Emperor. Secondly, did you not see the Death Guard teaser video? The Chaos Gods have not been idle – we guarantee there are some warp-charged hulking warriors on their way for you guys in the not too distant future.

Guilliman be blessed, these guys are rad! When can I get them?

Primaris Space Marines will be available alongside the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. Oh and while we’re on the subject, we’ll be announcing the release date before the end of this month…


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## Brother Lucian

Oh my.. Will be interesting to see how the Primaris works with the Fenris bound space wolves. Sounds like a recipe for a genetic bomb.


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## neferhet

In the dark future, the Emperor made Space Marines to help Humeens fight the horrors of the galaxy...in the darkest future, Guilliman created SUPER Space Marines to help regular Space Marines fight the horrors of the galaxy.
This is a ridiculous shit, the like it was not seen since Centurions hit the fan (space marines in powerarmour into superpowerterminator amour!). Now we have superhuman killers surpassed by...super - superhuman killers. 
I'll call them inception marines. I hope they have their own centurions. Super-superhumans in power-powerarmour. They certainly have Primaris dreadnought! Super dead super marines in a super vehicle! Will they have super-Predators? super-rhinos? 
The worst thing is THERE ARE CHAPTERS OF THEM. Basically "regular" marines just became the new imperial guard. Imperial guards just became grots. Way to go gw! And, also, that is what Fabius Bile was doing all along, with the whole **** Novus shit. Only that is heresy, you know.
*dramatically ragequits from window (ground floor)


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## scscofield

neferhet said:


> In the dark future, the Emperor made Space Marines to help Humeens fight the horrors of the galaxy...in the darkest future, Guilliman created SUPER Space Marines to help regular Space Marines fight the horrors of the galaxy.
> This is a ridiculous shit, the like it was not seen since Centurions hit the fan (space marines in powerarmour into superpowerterminator amour!). Now we have superhuman killers surpassed by...super - superhuman killers.
> I'll call them inception marines. I hope they have their own centurions. Super-superhumans in power-powerarmour. They certainly have Primaris dreadnought! Super dead super marines in a super vehicle! Will they have super-Predators? super-rhinos?
> The worst thing is THERE ARE CHAPTERS OF THEM. Basically "regular" marines just became the new imperial guard. Imperial guards just became grots. Way to go gw! And, also, that is what Fabius Bile was doing all along, with the whole **** Novus shit. Only that is heresy, you know.
> *dramatically ragequits from window (ground floor)












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## Brother Lucian

Hrm, I wonder.. I know there was rumor about a loyalist legion turning renegade and a traitor legion being redeemed. Could you imagine the loyalists going renegade over rejecting the nu-marines, seeing them as the ultimate betrayal of the astartes.


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## gen.ahab

These fellows are probably the one of the two things about the new edition that I'm not entirely sold on. Do they look cool? Yeah, they look pretty cool, but I feel like these guys water down space marines. I feel like these guys need to have some major issues in order to balance them out, and I really don't think modern GW is capable of that in the fiction. I feel like these are just going to be gain Mary Sues. 

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## Brother Lucian

Hearing blabber that more info/rules about the numarines should come later today.


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## ntaw

Brother Lucian said:


> Hearing blabber that more info/rules about the numarines should come later today.


It's the last line of the article:



Khorne's Fist said:


> For those of you curious as to exactly how these new Space Marines work in the game, *we’ll have more details on that later today*, so stay posted.


EDIT:



> There’s a new type of Space Marine on the block: the Primaris. When the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 lands, how will they play in the game? Let’s take a look at their rules to see what we can expect on the battlefield from the galaxy’s newest super-humans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, there are a lot of similarities to classic Space Marines: 3+ save, bolters (albeit, up-gunned a bit), and the usual frag/krak grenade loadout. There are some definite differences though.
> 
> 2 wounds puts Intercessors somewhere between your typical power armoured Space Marine and a Terminator in terms of survivability. Compared to a Tactical Squad Space Marine, who only has a single wound, an Intercessor will last twice as long against small arms fire but will die just as quickly to heavy weapons. Terminators have the same number of wounds as a Primaris Marine, but their better armour and invulnerable save means that they will last longer against all types of weapons.
> 
> That bolt rifle is pretty cool too. This is the iconic bolter armament of the Space Marines with a bit more kick. It has additional range and armour piercing punch over a standard bolt gun, meaning Intercessors will do well in a shoot-out against most current Warhammer 40,000 Troops units, and thanks to the new Strength vs Toughness system, they can even start to menace lighter vehicles, wounding any vehicle smaller than a Gorkanaut on 5’s and reducing its save by 1.
> 
> That said, like the Legions of the Great Crusade, they don’t have options for heavy or assault weapons within the squad, so there are still situations where a Tactical Squad will be better suited – bringing lascannons, flamers or other specialist weapons with them for greater tactical flexibility.
> 
> 
> 
> Though not melee specialists, the Intercessor’s two attacks makes them pretty handy in a fight. In close combat, they can also use their bolt pistols to fire point-blank into enemy units in the shooting phase. The enemy will need dedicated assault troops or lots of bodies to overwhelm a Primaris Space Marine up close.
> 
> You can see on the datasheet too, that you can select a <Chapter> as a faction keyword. That means you can add Primaris Space Marines to your Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Rainbow Warriors, or any other Codex Chapter you like, even one of your own invention.
> 
> Of course, all this comes at a price. Intercessors cost a fair few more points than a Tactical Marine; an army composed entirely of Primaris Marines will be a fairly compact, but utterly lethal and elite force. You can expect these guys to make a big impact on any game in which they make an appearance.
> 
> And remember, the Intercessor is just one type of Primaris Space Marine that Guilliman ordered up from Mars to defend the galaxy. We’ll have news on a few others very soon…


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## Khorne's Fist

ntaw said:


> Terminators have the same number of wounds as a Primaris Marine,


Another little tidbit sneaks out.


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## Shandathe

Okay, this is silly and I have no idea how Guilliman expects any chapter but his own to accept them as Space Marines. Hell, plenty of them are still distrustful of the Razorback as it has been around for a mere four thousand years. Never mind the various Chapters that barely trust their own Tech-Marines once they come back from Mars. 

What we have here is a bunch of vat-grown newbies that the Chapters are supposed to accept as brothers because Mars insultingly painted them in their colors? Yeah, the only way that will fly with the other First Founding chapters and their descendants is if they were nearly completely destroyed beyond hope of recove... Oh hell. Suddenly I understand WHY the vast majority of the Space Wolves recently got Wulfened and the Blood Angels nearly got wiped TWICE in quick succession. There's nobody left in a position to COMPLAIN.

Okay. So Guillimarines is going to be a thing. Suddenly, I can't help but feel a desire to help Abaddon out. 

Upside, they look decent? I'm not all that fond of the helmet, actually... What the hell happened to Mk. IX armour, anyway, I thought we were barely distributing Mk. VIII?


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## Brother Lucian

nessecity is the mother of invention. sometimes sacrifices has to be made when shits hit the fan as seen with the Crimson Path bisecting the imperium. And a LOT of chapters has taken a mauling and cant wait decades for reinforcements.

I think the main selling factor of numarines will boil down to: How fast can they be safely replenished compared to standard marines?


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## arthur.bobany

I greatly dislike the plot of the primaris marines. It takes just too much away from regular space marines IMHO. I'd much rather have had GW bite the bullet and just release these new miniatures as a new scale for them, replacing kits over time. I'm okay with having mismatched scale across an army as I see the miniatures as tokens. The explanation for the new marines feels cheap and is a detriment to the grim dark of the rich background. 

In the end, nothing changes most and it just makes the point clear that GW will sacrifice anything for increased sales. Can't blame them for that really. 

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## tirnaog

These seem like a bad idea.
IF you really can make a whole army from these guys, it pretty much eliminates the normal SMs.
See house rules coming to limit or ban these guys.


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## scscofield

That is a bit chicken little I would say. It's a five man specialist unit with no upgrades.

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## Brother Lucian

scscofield said:


> That is a bit chicken little I would say. It's a five man specialist unit with no upgrades.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



Did you notice this bit?

And remember, the Intercessor is just one type of Primaris Space Marine that Guilliman ordered up from Mars to defend the galaxy. We’ll have news on a few others very soon…


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## Einherjar667

Brother Lucian said:


> Did you notice this bit?
> 
> And remember, the Intercessor is just one type of Primaris Space Marine that Guilliman ordered up from Mars to defend the galaxy. We’ll have news on a few others very soon…




That could mean anything. I wouldn't make any judgment based on that. It could mean they make a multi-part kit, it could mean you can field one or the other, but not both. Could mean anything.


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## scscofield

Same article also stays they will cost more than standard marines. The edition is pushing away from small elite deathstar armies. If you go with only these you most likely will be in a bind in terms of the game as a whole.


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## neferhet

Khorne's Fist said:


> Another little tidbit sneaks out.


we already knew that. seen the profile at the beginning of the rumormill


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## Brother Lucian

Einherjar667 said:


> That could mean anything. I wouldn't make any judgment based on that. It could mean they make a multi-part kit, it could mean you can field one or the other, but not both. Could mean anything.


Well since these dudes are the tactical squad equivalent, it stands to reason to read it as assault and devastator versions comming. Especially since Terminators and dreads already are confirmed. Especially when viewed in light of wholly Primaris chapters comming. So they will need to cover all the bases for astartes troop types.

' Some, Guilliman has forged into new Space Marine Chapters, whole brotherhoods comprised only of these new warriors.'


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## scscofield

Tac squad they are not, tac squad is much more versitle far far as I'm concerned. 

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## Brother Lucian

Well the onus is certainly on Guiliman now to update the Codex Astartes for the inclusion and use of these new warriors. As well adding a proper preface and introduction for the correct use of the codex, which clearly went way over the heads of his sons as the millenia passed.


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## neferhet

Shandathe said:


> Okay, this is silly and I have no idea how Guilliman expects any chapter but his own to accept them as Space Marines. Hell, plenty of them are still distrustful of the Razorback as it has been around for a mere four thousand years. Never mind the various Chapters that barely trust their own Tech-Marines once they come back from Mars.
> 
> What we have here is a bunch of vat-grown newbies that the Chapters are supposed to accept as brothers because Mars insultingly painted them in their colors? Yeah, the only way that will fly with the other First Founding chapters and their descendants is if they were nearly completely destroyed beyond hope of recove... Oh hell. Suddenly I understand WHY the vast majority of the Space Wolves recently got Wulfened and the Blood Angels nearly got wiped TWICE in quick succession. There's nobody left in a position to COMPLAIN.
> 
> Okay. So Guillimarines is going to be a thing. Suddenly, I can't help but feel a desire to help Abaddon out.
> 
> Upside, they look decent? I'm not all that fond of the helmet, actually... What the hell happened to Mk. IX armour, anyway, I thought we were barely distributing Mk. VIII?





Brother Lucian said:


> nessecity is the mother of invention. sometimes sacrifices has to be made when shits hit the fan as seen with the Crimson Path bisecting the imperium. And a LOT of chapters has taken a mauling and cant wait decades for reinforcements.
> 
> I think the main selling factor of numarines will boil down to: How fast can they be safely replenished compared to standard marines?


The fluff piece says Cawl has worked on them for the last 10.000 years in secret. Because its totally logical and convenient that, instead of using legit resources to fuel your already accomplished superhuman soldiers and keep your empire (at best) intact, you should hide resources away to create even more expensive and elite super soldier- and special weapons- to recover what you lost because you had not enough resources in the first place! This is so logical! This is so logical an Ork weirdboy could have come out with this plan.
In many campaigns, fluff pieces, battle reports... the imperium has not enough bodies and space marines because they are thin on resources, becuse they are overstretched and so on...(think about Taros Campaign, for one)...only to discover that Guilliman and Cawl hid ENTIRE CHAPTERS of Ubermarines for 10.000 years. Guilliman is the Master Troll of the galaxy. Arlequins can only learn! :laugh2: I say that fighting for Horus is the only way to do the right thing, because apparently the two guys actually leading the Empire have the brains of a YOLO-OBEY mob. >


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## Khorne's Fist

All this whinging is getting tiresome. It's like looking at five pieces of a hundred piece jigsaw, and saying it makes a shit picture. Let's wait till we see the whole jigsaw before we declare 8th a lost cause.


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## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: T’au Empire*​
Frankie is back today with his thoughts on those upstart aliens on the Eastern Fringe.

Frankie: The T’au* are known currently for their deadly firepower and mobility. They utilise advanced Battlesuits to level blistering volleys of smart missiles and energy weapons into the enemies of the Greater Good. Riptides particularly–often seen in the Riptide Wing formation–are a common sight. The combination of resilience and firepower is a potent cocktail that has left many a pair of smoking boots where once a foe stood. Those that do survive the fusillade to cross the battlefield must withstand the T’au’s other shooting phase, otherwise known as Supporting Fire with overwatch. However, those intrepid warriors that make it through all of that often strike the physically weaker T’au down, as melee is certainly not their forte….apart from the stomps dished out by the Stormsurge. That guy certainly never skipped leg day in the gym!

How do T’au play in new Warhammer 40,000? Will they still be the kings of ranged warfare?

Well, let’s start with the biggest and baddest suit in their arsenal, the Stormsurge. This beast of a suit currently terrorises the tables and will continue to do so in the new Warhammer 40,000, albeit in different ways. The Stormsurge has amazing firepower with its 10 weapons…and yes, I said 10 weapons, each of which can fire on a different target. The Anchors currently allow the Stormsurge to shoot twice, but in the new edition, this has been changed to a more reasonable (but still powerful!) +1 to hit in the Shooting phase, which works great when paired with one Markerlight hit on a target, allowing any T’au unit to reroll 1’s when firing on that unit. BS 3+ and re-rolling 1’s with 10 ranged weapons is enough to render most units to smoking ash. The Stormsurge also has the Walking Battleship special rule which allows him to Fall Back from combat and still shoot, while also ignoring the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons. Stormsurges will remain a solid choice in the new edition.

The XV8 Crisis Battlesuits are next up on the docket. I consider these suits to be the iconic T’au unit, and the firepower from these guys will be very impressive. Very impressive indeed. They each can take 3 weapons (which again, you can fire all of them!). May I recommend a flamer plus two other weapons of your choice? My preference is dual missile pods for that lovely AP-1 and D3 damage per shot! The flamers give you nasty Overwatch defence, as they auto-hit incoming units that charge within their range. They can also be used offensively to clear objectives.

A unit of three Crisis Suits paired up with Markerlights will bring down even large vehicles relatively quickly. Multiple Crisis Suit units also work well together since supporting fire is still around, now called “For the Greater Good.” All those flamer hits from multiple XV8s into a charging unit is extremely powerful and will stop some of the strongest assault units dead in their tracks. Oh, and did I forget to mention they have the Fly keyword? This allows them to Fall Back from combat and still shoot at full effect. Brutal! I am loving how these guys play, and they will be scattered all across the tables in T’au armies.

Lastly, I want to talk about Sniper Drones. When paired with the T’au HQ’s such as the Cadre Fireblade they will bring down those pesky support characters with deadly efficiency even if they are hiding behind their infantry. The 48″ range on their Sniper weapons, plus their fast movement, means they will be filling those characters with lead (or plasma?) a lot faster than snipers from other factions. They will be a truly deadly force in your army that will strike fear in opposing characters. Have a look at their datasheet, here:



Overall, the T’au will play relatively similarly to how they do now. They will have a lot more tricks up their sleeves and you’ll see a wider variety of units on the board than you currently do. They’ll catch a lot of people off guard with some of their cool special rules and tactical flexibility. Stop resisting and join the Greater Good, today.

Come back on Wednesday for some insights on the insidious Drukhari.


----------



## gen.ahab

Khorne's Fist said:


> All this whinging is getting tiresome. It's like looking at five pieces of a hundred piece jigsaw, and saying it makes a shit picture. Let's wait till we see the whole jigsaw before we declare 8th a lost cause.


I haven't seen many examples of people saying that the entire edition is a wash. Yes, people are voicing displeasure over specific releases, but there is an equal number of examples of people engaging in communal dick rubbing over specific releases. Maybe that's just me, though. Perhaps I'm just zoning out the bitching bit because I've been more into the communal dick rubbing camp so far than the bitching camp.


----------



## darkreever

neferhet said:


> The fluff piece says Cawl has worked on them for the last 10.000 years in secret.


Which makes sense, since he did not have access to the Emperor's original gene-forges, genetic schematics, or the knowledge needed. Also remember the rise of the Imperial Cult, ascension of the God-Emperor, birth of the ecclessiarchy, and secretive nature of the Mechanicum (who at that point are in dire need of a rebuild and restructure thanks to their schism.)

And all of that would be around the decade following the defeat of the traitors on Terra; this point otherwise being known as the Scouring, where Guilliman led what forces he could in a campaign that ultimately pushed the traitors into the Eye of Terror.



neferhet said:


> Because its totally logical and convenient that, instead of using legit resources to fuel your already accomplished superhuman soldiers and keep your empire (at best) intact, you should hide resources away to create even more expensive and elite super soldier- and special weapons- to recover what you lost because you had not enough resources in the first place!


Go look into the War of the Beast, the Mechanicum were taking measures to remove/move Mars and a number of their elements in order to avoid being destroyed. They also with-held the existence and manufacturing of the centurion armour until after the Age of Apostasy (it was available about halfway through that period of time.)

The Mechanicum do not share in the manner your wishing, and its been that way in their fluff for decades. Then you also have to contend with the fact that half of them view the Emperor as the Omnissiah and his works, astartes included, were perfect and tampering with such things was Heresy. And thats just the Mechanicum, forget the Imperial Church, High Lords of Terra, and other primarchs when they were around.



neferhet said:


> This is so logical!


Have you ever read any fluff on the way the Imperium runs? I assure you what your seeing isn't exactly new or pulled from out of nowhere.


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## Old Man78

gen.ahab said:


> Perhaps I'm just zoning out the bitching bit because I've been more into the communal dick rubbing camp.



About this dick rubbing camp, is it invitation only or can anybody stop by, and yes I'm inquiring on behalf of a friend


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## gen.ahab

Old Man78 said:


> About this dick rubbing camp, is it invitation only or can anybody stop by, and yes I'm inquiring on behalf of a friend


Of course he is welcome, my child. There is peace and serenity in the dick rubbing camp. All are welcome. All. Are. Welcome. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Serpion5

My Tau are happy.


----------



## Kharn The Complainer

darkreever said:


> *snip*



I don't often agree with darkreever, but in this case, I agree with him 100%.


----------



## Lord of the Night

New Marines aren't really new. It's the exact same idea that Corax had in the HH novel series, improve on the Big E's design to create a caste of enhanced Space Marines. He called them Raptors and while yes they were in general faster and stronger than the average Space Marine, that was only a baseline. An above average or exceptional individual (Ventris, Dante, Lysander, etc) probably won't be outclassed by them, while even the idea of average is up to interpretation. These new marines don't even seem that much better in-game, yes they are a touch more durable in some ways but as the feature on them says they aren't immune to stuff that say a Terminator would be. Just because the Primaris are improved on the original idea doesn't make them infinitely better, it just means that on average a Primaris will be able to surpass the effort of a regular marine, but none of that accounts for the personal skill or heroism of either individual or for the circumstances or context of the conflict around them.

Liking the artwork and the design behind these Primaris boys, we'll see how the 40k universe reacts to them when they make their grand debut. I imagine some Chapters will love them (Ultramarines, Salamanders, Imperial Fists), some will be ambivalent (Iron Hands, White Scars) and some will be outright hostile (Space Wolves, Dark Angels). Only time will tell.


LotN


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## Khorne's Fist

Lord of the Night said:


> and some will be outright hostile (Space Wolves, Dark Angels).


The DA, definitely, but considering the state of the SWs right now, I think they might be quite happy with any kind of reinforcements.


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## Roganzar

Lord of the Night said:


> New Marines aren't really new. It's the exact same idea that Corax had in the HH novel series, improve on the Big E's design to create a caste of enhanced Space Marines. He called them Raptors and while yes they were in general faster and stronger than the average Space Marine, that was only a baseline. An above average or exceptional individual (Ventris, Dante, Lysander, etc) probably won't be outclassed by them, while even the idea of average is up to interpretation. These new marines don't even seem that much better in-game, yes they are a touch more durable in some ways but as the feature on them says they aren't immune to stuff that say a Terminator would be. Just because the Primaris are improved on the original idea doesn't make them infinitely better, it just means that on average a Primaris will be able to surpass the effort of a regular marine, but none of that accounts for the personal skill or heroism of either individual or for the circumstances or context of the conflict around them.
> 
> Liking the artwork and the design behind these Primaris boys, we'll see how the 40k universe reacts to them when they make their grand debut. I imagine some Chapters will love them (Ultramarines, Salamanders, Imperial Fists), some will be ambivalent (Iron Hands, White Scars) and some will be outright hostile (Space Wolves, Dark Angels). Only time will tell.
> 
> 
> LotN


I was just coming on to point out the Raven Guard thing from the Horus Heresy. *shakes fist in general direction pointlessly* You just had to go and beat me to it. And now I'm wondering about kit-bashing these guys into Raven Guard Raptors.

Anyways, how resistant the Wolves and the Dark Angels are I think depends on if this is a case of here you go have some dudes vs. here is an awesome new technique to get fast reinforcements that are tougher and stronger. You know, how they spin it in the fluffy fluff. The Wolves will probably be grudgingly receptive to both at this point and the DA will be resistant to new dudes thrust into their ranks, not wanting to share their secrets and all. If, however, its simply the technique than they might be more open to the idea.


----------



## Fallen

Old Man78 said:


> About this dick rubbing camp, is it invitation only or can anybody stop by, and yes I'm inquiring on behalf of a friend


Slaanesh welcomes you. :grin2::grin2:

----

Also remember that Thar Ariak Hraldir of the Space Wolves was actively trying to remove their flaw from the Canis Helix, via the Tempering, in order to create a legit "Legion" size force of chapters surrounding the Eye of Terror...and then Magnus came by and said "NOPE" and wrecked that.

----

I'm not sure how much I enjoy the fluff of these new primaris marines, I prefer that Crawl just (re?)perfected the art of creating Adeptus Astartes that had begun to deteriorate since the end of the Great Crusade.

Thinking of it like this, then all of what we know of as Adeptus Astates in M41 is simply a shadow of what they used to be. Which I think is very plausible given how mutated/corrupted the gene-seed, of each "legion", has become.

Also if we wish to push the envelope this way perhaps the gene-seed of the traitor legions were cleansed of whatever mark Chaos left upon them so that future chapters carrying the gene-seed of Fulgrim, Perturabo, Curze, Angron, Mortarion, Magnus, Horus, Lorgar, and Alpharius can be used once again - since the geen-seed vaults on Terra is stocked full of these.

Lastly perhaps even resurrections of the II and XI legions could return...


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## Brother Lucian

New Deathguard leak spotted over on B&C
8ed: New Death Guard leaked - =][= 8th EDITION DISCUSSION =][= - The Bolter and Chainsword

Word is that these guys are as big as a Custodian, bigger than the new Thousand Sons and Primaris Marines. 
If true, then Papa Nurgle sure has roided them up on Warp Juice. 

The old guard of marines will surely have a rapidly developing inferiority complex now!


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## Brother Lucian

https://www.warhammer-community.com...00-the-dark-imperium-may16gw-homepage-post-4/

*New Warhammer 40,000: The Indomitus Crusade & the Dark Imperium*










Yesterday, we saw a new type of Space Marine – a Primaris Space Marine – clad in Mk X armour and wielding a deadly bolt rifle. Developed on orders from the Primarch Roboute Guilliman 100 centuries past, Primaris Space Marines have been diligently developed and perfected by the priesthood of Mars during the long intervening millennia.
But to what purpose?
Perhaps an optimist, but never a fool, Guilliman learned from the Horus Heresy, and he foresaw that the forces of Chaos would never relent in their aim to bring the Imperium low. He anticipated that devastating times would once again engulf the galaxy and knew that warriors resilient enough to stand against them would be needed as never before. That time has surely come.












As the Imperium literally comes apart, and the forces of Chaos run rampant across the galaxy, Guilliman launches his Indomitus Crusade. We’ve heard that name before, but what does it mean? The new Warhammer 40,000 has this to say on it:_“Roboute Guilliman gathered his new armada. Along with elements of the Adeptus Custodes, a small contingent of the Silent Sisterhood, and a vast war host of Primaris Space Marines from many newly founded Chapters, the Primarch set a winding course. Strike forces from over a dozen pre-existing Chapters of Space Marines, led by the Imperial Fists, joined the fleet. Thus began many new legends as Guilliman travelled to aid beleaguered planets, breaking sieges and sweeping away invaders to bring hope back to the desperate defenders. It was not long before word began to spread, as all those planets that could receive astropathic messages hailed the return of a hero out of myth. Once more, one of the demigods of the past fought for the Imperium of Mankind.”

_










So, that sounds pretty promising for the Imperium. Well, maybe. The scale of the task is monumental. Following the emergence of the Cicatrix Maledictum, no world in the Imperium has been untouched by war, and there are many thousands of planets that cry out for aid and reinforcement. And that’s on the Terran side of the Great Rift! 
Travel through the Cicatrix Maledictum is all but impossible, but sporadic contact has been made, through temporary warp-routes, to a few of the best-defended worlds on the other side – and things are not looking good.
On the far side of the galaxy-spanning warp storm, things have quite literally gone to hell.











There, the light of the Astronomicon is obscured behind a psychic maelstrom of nightmares and the entire region has been dubbed ‘Imperium Nihilus’, or the Dark Imperium. 
Amongst the besieged Imperial worlds in this Dark Imperium are many Space Marine Chapter Planets, including Baal, home of the Blood Angels. Things were already looking pretty grim for the sons of Sanguinius, with a hive fleet closing in on them, and now it looks even bleaker. Cut off from the light of Terra, the Angels and their Successors stand against the might of Hive Fleet Leviathan, hoping they can withstand the storm.











Yipes, the Blood Angels sound like they are in trouble. This isn’t the first time they have triumphed against impossible odds though, can they make it out alive? We’ll have to see. We’ll be back tomorrow with more news on rules in the new Warhammer 40,000, as we take a look at teleporting and reserves.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Intriguing stuff! So the Primaris have had plenty of battles already to earn their experience and stripes. But it does sound -terribly- ominous- for the cut off, 'Dark Imperium' Definitely plenty of renewed potential for conflict and interesting stories with the Cicatrix Maledictum splitting the imperium in twain.

Edit:
Came to think over it. Guiliman is pretty much leading a Space Marine Legion in all but name on his new Crusade.
​


----------



## ntaw

Brother Lucian said:


> Came to think over it. Guiliman is pretty much leading a Space Marine Legion in all but name on his new Crusade.


Legion-sized gatherings of space marines all over the place. Gulliballz' crusade, (almost) every BA successor at Baal with whatever scraps of the BA are left, and there's tons of marines twiddling their thumbs around the Eye apparently.

Epic events inbound I'd say.

EDIT: That DG marine doesn't have enough bells, and where's all the whistles?! Jeeze.


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## Brother Lucian

Ive been thinking, this new crusade in progress looks to definitely be pushing the timeline past 999m40 at last. So I think its pretty much a given that the floodgates for timeadvancement will be thrown wide open in 8th edition. Especially once authors shifts to churn out stories set post Gathering Storm and the arrival of the Cicatrix Maledictum. A grand event for a new era.

Will GW be transitioning to Warhammer 41k soon or just capping it to Warhammer? Since Warhammer Fantasy is dead and gone and replaced with Age of Sigmar.
That draws another amusing paralel. Guiliman and the Primaris, giving it as Sigmar and the Stormcast comming to help the beleaguered Mortal Realms. At least they didnt wait as long as Sigmar did. Striking out while theres still significant leftovers to save.


----------



## neferhet

*New Warhammer 40,000: Tactical Reserves*










In the new Warhammer 40,000, as today, keeping some units in reserve is still a very important and potentially powerful tactical tool.
There are some pretty fundamental changes to how they work though. For a start, not every unit can be placed in reserve, so most of your army will usually deploy on the battlefield at the start of the game. This means that they will be contributing to the battle from turn one, but will also be a target for the enemy – so you’ll have to work out how to best utilise those early turns.








Quite a few units still have the option to join the game mid-battle though, and they use a variety of mystical or technological means to do so. While there are no longer universal special rules like Deep Strike or Outflank, many of these abilities will have common themes – so you can still expect units like Terminators to teleport down, Genestealer Cults units to ambush and Ork Kommandos to use their kunnin’ to sneak up on the foe.
As an example, let’s take a look at the special rule for a Trygon, a unit famed for its unusual method of deployment, tunneling up under the enemy army:
 

So we can see that this will be quite a powerful ability. Not only delivering the Trygon into the heart of the enemy force, but also an accompanying unit of Tyranids. And there’s nothing stopping them from charging this turn either! Though that 9″ distance to the enemy (which is common to a lot of units with similar abilities) will mean that the averages on the dice will be against you for that 2D6 charge distance. (You can always use your Command Re-roll of course…)








In matched play, there are a few additional restrictions to deployment methods like this, which you might imagine, can get very powerful very fast when used by multiple units across a single army. Matched play games use a special mission rule called Tactical Reserves.
 

This rule helps limit some of the more extreme cases of withholding reserves in competitive games. So, while it’s totally possible to have an all Deathwing Terminator army, for example, you can’t use the teleport rules on all of them in matched play. (Though we do think a narrative game where the entire Deathwing teleports in on the first turn to take a Chaos bastion would be pretty awesome.)


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## Brother Lucian

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/17/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-drukhari-may17/

_Continuing our Faction Focus series for the new Warhammer 40,000, Frankie returns to tell us about what we can expect from the Dark Eldar, or the Drukhari, as they call themselves._
_Frankie is one of the team who runs some of the biggest Warhammer 40,000 events in the world, including the Las Vegas Open and the recently announced SoCal Open. He’s also been part of the playtesting team for the new edition and has a particular soft spot for the forces of Commorragh.

_









Drukhari, also known as the Dark Eldar, are absolutely my favourite faction due to their background. They are like space pirates of the roughest sort mixed with a dash of maniacal arena combatants sprinkled with the bizarre and terrifying Haemonculus Covens. This forms a potent cocktail of evil which I’m sure we can all agree is awesome! They constantly fight amongst themselves for political power and to gain status by any means possible. When not stabbing one another in the back, they stage horrific raids into realspace for slaves and treasure. They must constantly seek ways to preserve their lifespans, as they do not have the protection of the infinity circuit used by their craftworld kin to shield their spirits from Slaanesh when they die.
Drukhari do not currently get a lot of attention on the top competitive tables. They can struggle to make it into close combat and often get cut down by overwatch before they get to swing. Their shooting, while potentially deadly, relies heavily on their Poisoned weapons which suffer against many armies.











What I want is Raiders flying around with guys shooting poisoned needles out of the back. I want close combat units that are feared and some cool (hopefully extra dirty!) tricks I can use to gain (unfair) advantage during battle as is befitting of a low down dirty space pirate!
In the new Warhammer 40,000, Raiders are exactly what they should be. They are blisteringly fast, open topped transports that deliver warriors where you need them but remain a little fragile. Open Topped vehicles allow you to shoot out of them still, which is a massive benefit. You can even fire Pistol weapons out of the vehicle when it is engaged in close combat! However, Raiders are nowhere near the paper thin deathtraps they could be in the past. Venoms, as well, are absolutely fantastic vehicles, and due to the changes to the core rules of the game, all of their weapons now have at least a chance to hurt even resilient vehicles on a 6 to wound (representing that lucky hit through a vision slit, or punching through a weakened section of armour).











These vehicles are restored to glory, allowing you to zoom around the battlefield and get your troops into key positions. They are also armed with strong weapons beyond splinter cannons. You can have a dark lance, which will give you serious punch to open other people’s transports or take down large creatures with a strength of 8, an AP of -4 and D6 damage. Or you can go with the disintegrator cannon, which has three shots that all do 2 damage at AP -3. 
With a toughness value and wounds, these vehicles are also much more durable. Lastly, these vehicles have a 5+ invulnerable save versus shooting attacks which will help when getting blasted by heavy weapons, and they ignore the -1 penalty to shooting heavy weapons after moving, keeping them agile. You can imagine how potent Ravagers will be with these rules!
What about some of those iconic melee units, such as Incubi? They are my absolute favourite unit in the entire Drukhari range, and they are now truly frightening combatants. They have a klaive that hits at +1 Strength and AP -3… yikes that’s going to hurt! The leader of a unit is a beast as well, gaining +2 damage if he rolls a 6 to wound. This unit will be dominating their Fight phases in the new Warhammer 40,000. When you pair them up with some of the characters for added bonuses, such as the man himself, Drazhar, you will have a devastating combo. I am happily painting more for my army, now!











Wyches will be seen in greater numbers too. Honestly, this might be one of the top 3 most improved units in all of the new edition! They get the 4+ invulnerable save in the Fight phase, just like before, and can now dish out some damage in combat. Their hydra gauntlets and razorflails are fantastic, giving their attacks -1 AP. But their real talent is in the No Escape special rule.










When an enemy infantry unit in melee tries to Fall Back out of combat with Wyches, they can only do so if they win a roll-off with you. That is so incredibly powerful because it will protect your close combat units from getting shot and allows you to kill whatever you are locked in combat with. Units like the T’au Crisis Suits I was telling you about last time will no longer be able to simply leave combat and shoot you to bits! The Wyches have been a lot of fun to play with and will be accompanying my Incubi on the tabletop for a vicious one-two combo.










I hope all you Drukhari players are as excited to put your armies on the tables as I am. There are so many more exciting developments to talk about with this faction but so little time. I didn’t even get to touch on Haemonculus Covens! But all of that will come in time.



------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like the Deldar got a major juice up to be the threat they rightly deserve to be. Something tells me that the Dark Imperium is in for a whole world of hurt now..


----------



## Fallen

New post about "vehicles" just went live...



> Today we take a look at how vehicles work in the new Warhammer 40,000.
> 
> The best way to show you some of the changes is with an example. Because we haven’t really seen anything from the Necron dynasties yet, we’re going to look at the Annihilation Barge, staple fire-support gun platform of the undying legions:
> 
> So this thing looks VERY different in the new Warhammer 40,000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For a start, it’s using the same stats as everyone else, so armour values on the various facings are out, and instead, we have Toughness, Wounds and an Armour Save, making it more comparable in durability to other large monsters and massive beasts of the Warhammer 40,000 universe.
> 
> Also, it’s got Attacks and Strength! So it can fight (albeit inexpertly) in combat. This represents it literally ramming or smashing into enemy units.
> 
> Some dedicated combat vehicles (commonly what used to be Walkers), will have melee weapons too, like the classic Dreadnought power fist, but most vehicles will need to make do with crushing enemies under tracks or crumpling them beneath anti-gravitic engines. Generally, these attacks will have a poor to hit roll (5+ or 6+) but high strength – because if a Land Raider runs you over, you’ll feel it. There are exceptions of course – Ork vehicles can be kitted out with some pretty deadly close combat options, which now function just like any other specialist close combat weapon: get hit by a Deathroller, for example, and prepare to be a pancake.
> 
> Vehicles will be affected by all the other new rules we’ve talked about too, so they will be able to move as any other model would, including advancing. They shoot just like everyone else does, including (with a few exceptions) -1 to hit with heavy weapons if they move. They can even charge! which effectively replaces the Tank Shock rules, except ANY vehicle can do it and they then fight just like any other unit in the Fight phase.
> 
> Generally, you’ll find that vehicles still fill the same roles in your army as they always have, but without so many exceptions to the core rules of the game. You’ll find them to be very durable, probably more so than they are today, and best used in coordination with infantry and where their own specialisations can be used to full effect.


Personally, it doesn't look much has been released in regards to "new" today.

On a side note, vehicles can now charge... So I can totally see a Rhino/APC charging a unit first to take the overwatch and then have the choppy unit come in unopposed.


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## Brother Dextus

Re: new marines.... im a bit irritated that my 15000 points of Black Templars will be small in comparison. On the otherhand.... my new army of 40k iron warriors might be 'truescale' instead. 

Swings and roundabouts i guess. 

Fluff wise, it sort of moves the story on, but its kind of annoying that girlyman is the one doing it and as usual is bringin everyone together with his reasonableness...

Reasonableness has no place in the grimdark. Someone should have stabbed his neck again, the tit. 


The whole dark imperium thing is interesting - given that one half is bathed in glorious roboute and the other is having the shit kicked out of it, i think the marines have their work cut out for them on the dark side - if they ever reach it!


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## Brother Dextus

Really looking forward to Warhammer fest as well - will be lots of new stuff i reckon.


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## scscofield

Want to say overwatch applies to ever unit charging now. There was something about it in a older blurb.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## darkreever

Just gonna throw this out there now, since someone seems to have a complaint with every new bit of information we get.

Sure, before bolters wouldn't even be able to harm the annihilation barge and now they can. However it would take 35-70 marines with bolters to do so (range dependent.)

Or looked at another way, 3-4 lascannons; which is what it would have taken anyway.

In other words, yes slightly less survivable but good luck making that thing.

Edit: and thats on a toughness 6 vehicle with a +4 save and 8 wounds. Now imagine what you would need to throw at T8, +3 save, and +10 wounds.


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## Brother Lucian

Major newsbit
https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam/
A facebook QA

I caught info about it on
Warhammer TV Q&A session from May 18th - =][= 8th EDITION DISCUSSION =][= - The Bolter and Chainsword

Important bits already:
Few immediate takeaways: Primaris Marines can be taken by all Chapters, and can be raised through traditional recruitment methods rather than being vat-bred. More interestingly, it is possible to update an existing Marine to become Primaris (this suggests, IMO, eventual upgrade of all Marines into Primaris over time).

What is a primaris space marine?
new generation of space marines. Blended primarch, custodes, and space marine geneseed. Bigger more powerful, but more specialized when compared to tactical squads. The entire primaris squad is all trained in the weapons.

Ultimate Founding...
New Primaris Marine Chapters! + they will be other existing Space Marine Chapters. Even existing Space Marines can be adapted and made into Primaris Space Marines.

What is Mark X Armor and what happened to Mark VIIII?
Mark X of Armor is new but didnt give a lot of information about it.
Mark VIIII is a mystery.

"Primaris Marines are more resistant to chaos."

Can Primaris Marines be corrupted to Chaos...?
Who knows, we will have to wait and see.

Will we see more Primarchs?

A cowled one may be on its way soon!!!!!!!
So there may be more on the way.

---------------------------------------------------------
So this solves several fluff issues quite elegantly, and will likely lead to the reissuing of a lot of characters primaris-ed. And Im pretty sure that Fabius Bile will be TWITCHING to get a hold of this new toy.

The primarch is most certainly Mortarion with the Death Guard poised to burst into realspace like an overripe zit.


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## Brother Lucian

Found a proper transcript on BolS:
40K: 8th Q&A Part Deux - Bell of Lost Souls

*What is a Primaris Space Marine?*


New generation of Space Marine
Bigger, more powerful
More focused in role
“Very very *specific*” – in regards to battlefield role
other types in the future, still specialized
 *Indomitus Crusade*


What Guiliman has been up to
Banded together parts of the Imperium
Created new Primaris Marines
New founding of Primaris Marines
*Ultima Founding – Entire Chapters of JUST Primaris Marines*
All marines gifted with Primaris Tech
 
Not all test tube babies, can be made from recruits
Existing Marines can be upgraded to Primaris
**Andy seems Really excited to play with different stories about how flesh turners will feel about Primaris Marines*
Will they accept them
Will they want to work with them
Will they want to be “upgraded” to a Primaris Marine…
 
Primaris Marines – Add them as you like to your existing army
 *What is Mk. X and what about Mk. IX?*


New class of armor, not just for one troop type (alluded to different abilities)
What happened to IX–who knows? It’s a mystery!
 *Indomitus Crusade part 2 – This time it’s personal*


Guilliman travels to give Primaris Marine tech to all Loyalist Chapters
Fighting vs Chaos
War on all fronts, including Xenos threats
He’s trying to help where he can – but the Galaxy is kind of on fire
 *Creating the New Rules*


How long has it taken to develop 8th? At least 18 months – probably longer
Lots of testing, lots of background changes
Improving Three Ways to Play
Specialized more for each
take feedback and improve each version of 3 ways to play–match play, narrative, and open
 
Continue to playtest the rules
update rules for match play, narrative, and open
 *Army competitiveness/parity at competitive level?*


Lots of playtesting and future playtesting
Not afraid to make changes in the future
And react to feedback “quickly”
 *FAQ/Feedback Sites*


There working on ways to get feed back in the future
Currently it’s just Facebook/events/in person
Later they will have a new “forum-esq” site
 *How many Imperium know about Guilliman’s Return?*


Not many regular Imperial Joes know about him.
Think about it – Not everyone knows about a Space Marine!
If one shows up on your planet? It’s not good.
Who knows about Guilliman? Upper echelons of Military Orders, High Lords, Chapter Masters etc…that’s about it
 *Primaris Marines — All From Mars?*


Primaris Marines – 1st Batch is from Mars
Eventually all Chapters will be able to make their own – Guilliman is gifting the tech to chapters so they can create their own
*Melee vs Combat?*


CC is much more devastating
Surrounded units *CAN’T* Fall Back
Units are _*A LOT *_quicker?
*Sweeping advance* – consolidate from one combat to the next
Combat happens _*twice*_ per game turn vs shooting’s once per game turn
 *How will “Initiative weapons” work? *


Lash Whips – Combat Interrupt – not the only weapon, but it’s an example
Power Fists will be -1 to hit! But if it hits, it hits *hard*.
_*Unwieldy *_could be minus to hit (implied – not confirmed)
Other levers than initative to pull
Basically, if a weapon had a rule that impacted the way it worked on the initiative step, GW has tweaked those weapons via other modifiers besides “initiative”
 *Selecting Psychic Power – Pick them or roll?*


Match play – you can choose or roll
Open / Narrative play – optional
You get to CHOOSE: Random or pick
 *Perils of the Warp – Still a threat?*


Yes – but no major details
 *Choosing Armies*


Force Org. detachment for pretty much every army. Even an army entirely made of Elites – there is probably a force org chart for that…
 *How will you tailor your army?*


More access to command points, stratagems, army specific rules
You tailor based on Keywords (more below)
 *Specific Army Rules (examples) – this one was unscripted so it’s very general concepts*


Imperial Fist – Better vs. Defending/fortifications
White Scars – Hit and Run
 *Battle Forge Army Each Unit/Detachment must share one keyword, Examples:*


Imperium – limited stratagems to just generic “Imperium”
Space Marine – Gain access to Space Marine Stratagems on top of Imperium Stratagems
<Chapter> – Specific Chapter Strategems on top of the others
The more specific the key word the “deeper” you can go with the Stratagems
 *Characters in Transports*


Based on transport capacity, _*not *_number of units
Characters can hitch a ride with a unit
You could fit 2×5 man units in 10 (something) transports
If a transport has a capacity of 12, you could fit a 10 man squad + 2 other characters for a total of 12
 *Command Squads have rules to help protect characters*


Tyrant Guard example
Command Squad example
*Lookout, Sir! type rules*
 *Rule *Drop Pod**


9″ Away from enemies
Units deploying from the Drop Pod at least 9″ away from enemy
 *New vs Old weapon changes*


Weapons have been rebalanced
Grav shouldn’t be the “Auto-include” that it is now
 *Combos for Competitive Play?*


Yes, with Keyword Mechanic it’s still a thing
Combine Keyword combos and Psychic Powers – competitive players can still build power lists
 *Exploding weapons without templates?*


They still hit pretty hard
Battle Cannons seemed to work just fine for Pete
 *Invulnerable Saves*


Work pretty much the same
Saves are an “instead of” roll vs an “in addition too”
 *Power from Pain happens *after* damage roll*


Come back on a 6
You still take the damage, so it’s a lot like an additional save
 *Large Creatures – Will they get to smash?*


Yes! Good save, Bit faster, and smashy
Large Creatures will work!
 *Wound allocation*


*Defenders choice*
No longer directional
Defending player chooses where the wounds go
 *Can I play an entire army of Dreadnoughts?*


Yes
 *Legion Strength – Will The Codex get redacted/replaced?*


Well, “the chap who wrote it is back” –and it did not go well in 10,000 years, so we’ll find out!
 *Primaris Marines and Chaos influence*


They’ve been designed to resist, but we’ll wait and see…
*Tactical vs Primaris Marines*


You should take both – they serve different roles
Tactical marines are more flexible, Primaris Marines are there for specific battlefield roles
You’ll see this repeated thought the Primaris types vs “regular” Space Marine roles
 *Psychic Powers*


Mix of old and new. “The intention of those powers” will be kept for new and old powers
Example: Mindwar – it’s a classic power, but it might be tweaked slightly for new edition
 *How will you collect feedback?*


Now – Facebook, events, Twitch
Later – Working on a *New Site * for feedback
Forum-ish site with upvotes/downvotes
 *GW and Tournaments*


Yes , working with and talking with them. Giving advice and more interaction with T. O.
 *[email protected]*


Email them questions!
 *Terminators, will they feel like Terminators on the battlefield?*


Yes.
 *Does Pete thin his paints?*


Yes.
 *On a scale of 1 to Kharne, how excited are you for 8th?*


_*Angron Excited!*_
 *Will you continue playtesting 8th after the release?*


Yes, even after the release.
 *More Primaches?*


Possibly…mentioned a “cowardly(?)” one.


----------



## Brother Lucian

Quite interesting stuff for sure. Looks like they meant Flesh Tearers, not Turners. Bad transcript.

Should be interesting for the Adeptus Astartes if Guiliman throws the Codex out of the window for a revised edition. He does seem to be falling back on Legion tactics.


----------



## Gret79

*Cowardly* primarch? Is that an Oz reference? 
I know there were rumours about The Lion a while back...


----------



## Old Man78

Gret79 said:


> *Cowardly* primarch? Is that an Oz reference?
> I know there were rumours about The Lion a while back...


I was struggling with that, lol, thanks for making me see it!


----------



## Brother Lucian

Gret79 said:


> *Cowardly* primarch? Is that an Oz reference?
> I know there were rumours about The Lion a while back...


The comments over on B&C had it as Cowled primarch, which fits a lot better. The BOLS transcript was unsure if it was Cowardly. But Cowled is spot on for Mortarion.


----------



## ntaw

Gret79 said:


> I know there were rumours about The Lion a while back...


The current Rumour Engine pic would have to agree, though it may not be the Lion you were thinking :laugh:


----------



## DaisyDuke

All good stuff but how much more can they tease without loosing momentum. Sooon


----------



## Brother Lucian

Plenty of factions left that havent had a tease yet. But out of the majors: Mechanicum, Orks, Tyranids and Necrons. Did I miss any?


----------



## darkreever

With the frequency of these little drops appearing to increase a little, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the next three was the actual release.


----------



## Shandathe

Something I'll note is that I think we're out of expected releases for the month. I have no idea what will be coming up on pre-order this saturday.


----------



## Roganzar

Shandathe said:


> Something I'll note is that I think we're out of expected releases for the month. I have no idea what will be coming up on pre-order this saturday.


Rumor mill has it for June 3rd but I'm not going to complain if it's sooner. Gonna be watching the GW site closely for the next few weeks.



> Selecting Psychic Power – Pick them or roll?
> Match play – you can choose or roll
> Open / Narrative play – optional
> You get to CHOOSE: Random or pick


This subject concerned me for a while as I'd just gotten Magnus and the start of a Thousand Sons detatchment. I was worried the Psychic powers would be like in AoS, set to the character. Now I feel better that it won't be. It looks like the character will have Smite or something similar as an attack power and then get to pick their real powers.
Good.


----------



## Brother Dextus

I'm really looking forward to this - regardless of good or bad. Kind of like a plaster, I just want to rip it off and get it over with.


----------



## neferhet

Brother Dextus said:


> I'm really looking forward to this - regardless of good or bad. Kind of like a plaster, I just want to rip it off and get it over with.


Quoted for truth. Also, 7th edition games were taking so much time to play we (my group) almost stopped playing...we'll see in June!!


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Let’s take a look at some close combat weapons, shall we?

We’ve seen already that shooting weapons in the new Warhammer 40,000 use a Strength, AP, Damage system, and melee kit is much the same. The main differences being that there is no range on them, and a lot of them will use the user’s Strength as their basis.

Let’s look at some examples – we’ll start with the classic power weapon lineup.



In the current edition of Warhammer 40,000, the axe is the go-to weapon for a lot of folks. Players gladly took the unwieldy rule in exchange for AP2 and a bonus to Strength. Now, the obvious choice is far from obvious, as they clearly all have their uses. That sword, for example, is looking pretty deadly against most things, with the AP-3 helping it against every type of foe. Even with no bonus to Strength, using the new wounding chart shows that a Strength 4 Space Marine is wounding everything up to Toughness 7 on 5s (which is good, because a lot of our models have swords).

Even the humble chainsword gets a boost. No longer just a standard combat weapon, the iconic combat weapon wielded by the Adeptus Astartes and many other forces, now gives its bearer more attacks in combat. Perfect for grinding through hordes of low armoured troops, the chainsword now functions on the battlefield how it always has in your head. This change also helps differentiate dedicated combat troops from those just wielding improvised or side-arm weapons.



We can see that all of the above still only do 1 Damage, meaning that while they can chip wounds off bigger stuff, they are primarily infantry killers.

What about some anti-armour stuff though? Check out the power fist:



At the cost of being more cumbersome to swing, it’s dishing out multiple damage with every hit, and at a Strength that will find it easy to wound anything in the game.

Another high damage option is Force weapons. Take a Grey Knight squad of any sort: every guy in there has a blade that, as well as having all the benefits of the equivalent Power weapon, also dishes out D3 damage on every wound! Those guys are going to be phenomenal up-close killers, as they should be.

D3 Damage is good, but if you really want to kill something, try the reaper chainsword. This deals a flat 6 Damage to whatever it wounds. That’s enough to carve a Chaos Lord in half, and a couple of hits will wreck most small and medium vehicles in a single Fight phase.



Make no mistake, when facing a dedicated melee unit, stuff is going to die in combat really, really fast.


----------



## Brother Lucian

What or whom uses a Reaper Chainsword? Any info on that yet? Imperial Knight Weapon?


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Brother Lucian said:


> What or whom uses a Reaper Chainsword? Any info on that yet? Imperial Knight Weapon?


That huge double handed chainsword that comes in the assault squad box.


----------



## scscofield

The reaper is the knight one. If you click on the text in the original post it directs you to the knight kit store page

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


----------



## Brother Lucian

Ah, had a thought it was a knight weapon for doing that much damage.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Imperial Knights​*Faction Focus returns today with Reese telling all about Imperial Knights!



Imperial Knights stride the battlefield like colossi raining down destruction on the enemies of the Emperor with powerful weapons and stalwart defence. How will these mechanical behemoths play in the new Warhammer 40,000?

The Questor Imperialis, or Imperial Knights, are Knights in more than just name. They live their lives by chivalric codes and pledge fealty to their High Kings and the Emperor. Through the Throne Mechanicum, these nobles bond with their mighty Knights and enter into battle for the honour of their household. 

Imperial Knights currently play as an all or nothing army. What I mean by this is that they either totally overwhelm their opponent with high armour, powerful weapons and devastating melee… or they get crushed by an army that has the specific tools to deal with them. This is largely due to the game mechanics of the way Warhammer 40,000 plays. Many weapons cannot hurt a Knight at all, while some devastate them, such as Destroyer weapons or large numbers of melta weapons. This creates very swingy, often short, games that can leave one or both players feeling a bit flat.

In the new edition, this dynamic changes quite a bit. As everything can hurt everything else, a player in a game vs an Imperial Knight army will never feel entirely helpless. While firing a grot blaster at a Knight is highly unlikely to do anything, it just might. However, to compensate for this increased vulnerability, the Imperial Knights have been given a LOT of wounds. And by a lot, I mean 24! They’re also Toughness 8 with a 3+ save. They’re quite literally twice as durable as a Leman Russ which is itself a difficult unit to take down. Add in the inclusion of a 5+ invulnerable save against shooting – regardless of which direction the shots are fired from, thanks to their ion shield – and you’ve got a resoundingly resilient unit.



But it’s not all about defence. Imperial Knights pack absolutely blistering firepower, too. The thermal cannon is utterly lethal now. Heavy D3, Strength 9, Ap -4 and D6 Damage, rolling 2D6 and taking the highest when in half range, will leave many targets as nothing more than smoking craters with a single volley. If that weren’t enough, the cannon gets D6 shots vs units with 5 or more models. I think you can start to see how useful Command Points can be when using weapons like this, maximising the effect they can have at just the right time.

Another big change is how Stomps work. Previously, Stomps simply removed models entirely from the game on the roll of a 6. While this was useful for dealing with some problematic character-laden units which were hyper-durable, it could create gameplay situations which were not very satisfying for players when their favorite model was unceremoniously stomped into oblivion with no saves!

Now called Titanic Feet, these are still fearsome weapons, but do not simply remove models from play. And if kicking and stomping models isn’t enough, you’ve always got your trusty reaper chainsword or thunderstrike gauntlet to fall back on, both of which do an automatic 6 damage per successful attack. Ouch. The thunderstrike gauntlet also has the ability to chuck a destroyed Monster or Vehicle at another enemy unit within 9″ to do D3 mortal wounds on a 4+. Splat!

Knights will be a unit that cannot be ignored, and if you’re fighting against them, you will need to plan to deal with them when writing your list. While tough, they are not invincible and, in melee particularly, they can find themselves to be somewhat more vulnerable. The canny Knights general will need to be wary of enemy models with multiple D6 damage melee attacks such as Trygons, which can severely damage or destroy Knights in a single lucky round of combat.

Knights players will also be happy to know they are no longer so easily bogged down by large cannon fodder units. In the new Warhammer 40,000, they can simply walk over Infantry models and leave combat while still being able to fire their weapons. They are fearsome units, indeed.

Though you don’t often see large numbers of Knights in a single army, those few are easily the match for many armies, and thanks to the new Super-Heavy Detachment, you’ll still be able to field them all on their own if that’s how you roll.



There’s a lot more to say about this army but for today, that is all we have time left for. We hope you are as excited to put your Knights on the table as we are!


----------



## Brother Lucian

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer4..._of_the_new_primaris/?st=j2w42b0m&sh=23274ea6


----------



## Lord of the Night

Khorne's Fist said:


> In the new edition, this dynamic changes quite a bit. As everything can hurt everything else, a player in a game vs an Imperial Knight army will never feel entirely helpless. While firing a grot blaster at a Knight is highly unlikely to do anything, it just might. However, to compensate for this increased vulnerability, the Imperial Knights have been given a LOT of wounds. And by a lot, I mean 24! They’re also Toughness 8 with a 3+ save. They’re quite literally twice as durable as a Leman Russ which is itself a difficult unit to take down. Add in the inclusion of a 5+ invulnerable save against shooting – regardless of which direction the shots are fired from, thanks to their ion shield – and you’ve got a resoundingly resilient unit.


DAMN! That's awesome.



Khorne's Fist said:


> But it’s not all about defence. Imperial Knights pack absolutely blistering firepower, too. The thermal cannon is utterly lethal now. Heavy D3, Strength 9, Ap -4 and D6 Damage, rolling 2D6 and taking the highest when in half range, will leave many targets as nothing more than smoking craters with a single volley. If that weren’t enough, the cannon gets D6 shots vs units with 5 or more models. I think you can start to see how useful Command Points can be when using weapons like this, maximising the effect they can have at just the right time.


HOLY F*&K!



Khorne's Fist said:


> Another big change is how Stomps work. Previously, Stomps simply removed models entirely from the game on the roll of a 6. While this was useful for dealing with some problematic character-laden units which were hyper-durable, it could create gameplay situations which were not very satisfying for players when their favorite model was unceremoniously stomped into oblivion with no saves! Now called Titanic Feet, these are still fearsome weapons, but do not simply remove models from play. And if kicking and stomping models isn’t enough, you’ve always got your trusty reaper chainsword or thunderstrike gauntlet to fall back on, both of which do an automatic 6 damage per successful attack. Ouch. The thunderstrike gauntlet also has the ability to chuck a destroyed Monster or Vehicle at another enemy unit within 9″ to do D3 mortal wounds on a 4+. Splat!


Ohh yeah...



Khorne's Fist said:


> Knights players will also be happy to know they are no longer so easily bogged down by large cannon fodder units. In the new Warhammer 40,000, they can simply walk over Infantry models and leave combat while still being able to fire their weapons. They are fearsome units, indeed.








LotN


----------



## Roganzar

Lord of the Night said:


> DAMN! That's awesome.
> 
> 
> HOLY F*&K!
> 
> 
> Ohh yeah...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4SXpOFQ9T8
> 
> 
> LotN


This sums up my thoughts perfectly. 
Well, now I really want at least two more Knights. Well, on to the ol' Christmas wishlist those are going, probably the only way that is happening in the near future. *sigh*

Damn GW what did my wallet ever do to you? You just keep sucking the life from it.


----------



## Roganzar

Also, on the melee weapons, they've made them all delicious choices. Especially the chainsword. It's no longer the "I don't have enough points for other things" weapon. It's a good choice. Hell, I wonder if two weapons in melee gives an extra attack? (I may have forgotten if that was mentioned, if it was.) Then two chainswords would then go up to 4 attacks, plus any others for the character. 
Just picturing the Assault Squads and Chaos Raptors jumping in with lots of chainswords. So, good.


----------



## Brother Lucian

Roganzar said:


> Also, on the melee weapons, they've made them all delicious choices. Especially the chainsword. It's no longer the "I don't have enough points for other things" weapon. It's a good choice. Hell, I wonder if two weapons in melee gives an extra attack? (I may have forgotten if that was mentioned, if it was.) Then two chainswords would then go up to 4 attacks, plus any others for the character.
> Just picturing the Assault Squads and Chaos Raptors jumping in with lots of chainswords. So, good.


One can wonder how absurd chainaxes gets in the hands of khornate berserkers now..


----------



## Roganzar

Brother Lucian said:


> One can wonder how absurd chainaxes gets in the hands of khornate berserkers now..


All I want to say to that is some sort of malicious giggle noise, that I'm not sure of how to type.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Can't figure out why the armour modifier for axes and swords have reversed in this edition. It is nice to see that the axe no longer suffers an initiative penalty though. Same with power fists. I tended not to run them in my SWs because I hated the idea of a CC specialist fighting at I1.


----------



## Lord of the Night

Khorne's Fist said:


> Can't figure out why the armour modifier for axes and swords have reversed in this edition. It is nice to see that the axe no longer suffers an initiative penalty though. Same with power fists. I tended not to run them in my SWs because I hated the idea of a CC specialist fighting at I1.


Very good! A step forward towards armies of Khorne Berzerkers being properly equipped with all Chainaxes, a Berzerker with a Chainsword is just wrong! Like seeing an Ork with a Splinter Rifle.


LotN


----------



## darkreever

To make power swords a viable option. The axe already has the strength boost and now no more initiative penalty, if it had the better save modifier than you'd never see power swords getting taken.


----------



## Old Man78

Khorne's Fist said:


> Can't figure out why the armour modifier for axes and swords have reversed in this edition. It is nice to see that the axe no longer suffers an initiative penalty though. Same with power fists. I tended not to run them in my SWs because I hated the idea of a CC specialist fighting at I1.


I like this, it is actually more real world, a sword is pointy and goes far in, hence better ap, the axe confers more blunt force trauma hence the S bonus.


----------



## Starbuck

Why swords having a better rend than axes doesn't make sense.... http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?24020-Why-were-axes-good-against-armor


----------



## scscofield




----------



## ntaw

Trading AP for Strength makes sense in the absence of Initiative, for all the reasons pointed out. It's worth keeping in mind that rules are about in-game balance and not real-world effects.


----------



## Shandathe

Meh. The sword has a better rend because they wanted to keep them at a similar price level points-wise. If it absolutely has to make more sense to you, just assume the power field is easier to shape for the sword and thus more effective. It's just like how a Flamer can now suddenly hit a single target multiple times or completely whiff when focused on a tightly-packed squad. 

TBH, the interesting one is the Maul - it has been the redheaded stepchild of the power weapons for a while, but with these rule changes, especially with lighter vehicles at T6... I could see a lot of them appearing on tables.


----------



## ntaw

Shandathe said:


> TBH, the interesting one is the Maul - it has been the redheaded stepchild of the power weapons for a while, but with these rule changes, especially with lighter vehicles at T6... I could see a lot of them appearing on tables.


Most vehicles had a rear armour of AV10 and a S6 maul attack would be glancing on a 4 and removing a hull point no question, not to mention the potential for a penetrating hit and causing further damage. In 8th, that same S6 attack wounds a T6 vehicle on a 4+ and the vehicle gets an armour save as well as having more wounds than it did hull points.

I don't think mauls are any better than they were before unfortunately. Maybe even worse against vehicles.


----------



## Serpion5

If strength is to be a factor in cc with additional rend on top of weapon rend, then the maul could yet find favour in certain armies.


----------



## darkreever

ntaw said:


> I don't think mauls are any better than they were before unfortunately. Maybe even worse against vehicles.


Mauls are going to be a middle of the road weapon; against a T6, W8 vehicle with a +4 save it takes about 40 marine maul attacks to kill, compared to 43 from an axe and 36 from a sword.

This is more apparent against vehicles like the knight errant, with its T8, W24 and +3 save. There it takes 210 maul attacks, whereas the axe only needs 160 but the sword needs 260.

The maul is better against enemies with lower saves, against marines 10 attacks only does an average of 2.2 kills (vs 3 and 2.9 respectively.) However against units like guardsmen those 10 attacks cause 3.7 kills (vs 3.7 and 4.5.) The maul only starts to pull away against enemies with +5 or +6 saves, where the extra -ap of axes and swords means next to nothing (especially against T3 where mauls are wounding on 2's.)


Overall mauls got 'worse' against vehicles but that has more to do with vehicles now being more survivable and not mauls being less effective. Its easier to strip 2-3 hull points off a vehicle than 8-24 wounds.


----------



## ntaw

Serpion5 said:


> If strength is to be a factor in cc with additional rend on top of weapon rend, then the maul could yet find favour in certain armies.


I'm assuming that you calling it rend instead of AP is from AoS and that AoS has a rend modifier based on the strength of the attack, so there is some precedent for this statement. Does the target's toughness not effect that modifier at all or does a higher toughness only make the wound roll harder to pass? 

If they do something like this in 40k it would go a long way to making the maul a more effective weapon against vehicles (though I'm not entirely sure it needs to be).



darkreever said:


> Overall mauls got 'worse' against vehicles but that has more to do with vehicles now being more survivable and not mauls being less effective. Its easier to strip 2-3 hull points off a vehicle than 8-24 wounds.


My point exactly, though I find the dice gods will always laugh at the math us mere mortals come up with when it comes time to roll :laugh:


----------



## Old Man78

Im really liking whats coming out, you shouldn't be relying on melee weapons to kill vehicles, but rather to finish them off. I'm looking forward see what they will do with melta bombs and krak grenades. However if you want a tank/beastie killed las cannons are quite vicious in this edition, a predator annihilator can theoretically pump out 18 wounds on a target! Now that land raider terminus looks viable


----------



## Shandathe

darkreever said:


> The maul is better against enemies with lower saves, against marines 10 attacks only does an average of 2.2 kills (vs 3 and 2.9 respectively.) However against units like guardsmen those 10 attacks cause 3.7 kills (vs 3.7 and 4.5.) The maul only starts to pull away against enemies with +5 or +6 saves, where the extra -ap of axes and swords means next to nothing (especially against T3 where mauls are wounding on 2's.)


I think there's a math error happening here somewhere... Mind you, I think the main mistake here is the assumption _I am a Space Marine player_ and using base S4 :grin2: NB: We're both assuming that S vs. T still works out mostly similar as before I believe, though I don't think we've seen the official table for it yet.

Here's my math, please point out any errors. Excuse the layout, can't find how to make tables nowadays... 





10 attacks vs. Guardsmen (T3, 5+ save)

Attacking unit: Guardsman, Battle Sister. WS 4+, so 5 avg hits
MAUL: S5 vs. T3 -> 2+ (4.1667) | Save 6+ (*3.472 *kills)
AXE: S4 vs. T3 -> 3+ (3.333) | Save NA (3.333 kills)
SWORD: S3 vs. T3 -> 4+ (2.5) | Save NA (2.5 kills)


Attacking unit: Celestian, similar S3 CC units. WS 3+, so 6.667 avg hits
MAUL: S5 vs. T3 -> 2+ (5.556) | Save 6+ (*4.630* kills)
AXE: S4 vs. T3 -> 3+ (4.444) | Save NA (4.444 kills)
SWORD: S3 vs. T3 -> 4+ (3.333) | Save NA (3.333 kills)


Attacking unit: Space Marine WS3+, so 6.667 avg hits
MAUL: S6 vs. T3 -> 2+ (5.556) | Save 6+ (4.630 kills)
AXE: S5 vs. T3 -> 2+ (5.556) | Save NA (*5.556 *kills)
SWORD: S4 vs. T3 -> 3+ (4.444) | Save NA (4.444 kills)

Outcome: Maul wins, unless you're a Space Marine. Axe is the middle of the road, Sword is trailing behind.


10 attacks vs. Marines (T4, 3+ save)

Attacking unit: Guardsman, Battle Sister. WS 4+, so 5 avg hits
MAUL: S5 vs. T4 -> 3+ (3.333) | Save 4+ (*1.667 *kills)
AXE: S4 vs. T4 -> 4+ (2.5) | Save 5+ (*1.667 *kills)
SWORD: S3 vs. T4 -> 5+ (1.667) | Save 6+ (1.389 kills)


Attacking unit: Celestian, similar S3 CC units. WS 3+, so 6.667 avg hits
MAUL: S5 vs. T4 -> 3+ (4.444) | Save 4+ (*2.222* kills)
AXE: S4 vs. T4 -> 4+ (3.333) | Save 5+ (*2.222 *kills)
SWORD: S3 vs. T4 -> 5+ (2.222) | Save 6+ (1.852 kills)


Attacking unit: Fellow Space Marine WS3+, so 6.667 avg hits
MAUL: S6 vs. T4 -> 2+ (5.556) | Save 4+ (2.778 kills)
AXE: S5 vs. T4 -> 3+ (4.444) | Save 5+ (*2.963* kills)
SWORD: S4 vs. T4 -> 4+ (3.333) | Save 6+ (2.778 kills)

Outcome: That's got the Maul breaking even with the Axe, except (again) in the hands of a Space Marine. Note, sword trailing behind AGAIN.


10 attacks vs. T6 / Save 3+ enemy vehicle

Attacking unit: Guardsman, Battle Sister. WS 4+, so 5 avg hits
MAUL: S5 vs. T6 -> 5+ (1.667) | Save 4+ (*0.833*)
AXE: S4 vs. T6 -> 6+ (0.833) | Save 5+ (0.556)
SWORD: S3 vs. T6 -> 6+ (0.833) | Save 6+ (0.694)


Attacking unit: Celestian, similar S3 CC units. WS 3+, so 6.667 avg hits
MAUL: S5 vs. T6 -> 5+ (2.222) | Save 4+ (*1.111*)
AXE: S4 vs. T6 -> 6+ (1.111) | Save 5+ (0.741)
SWORD: S3 vs. T6 -> 6+ (1.111) | Save 6+ (0.926)


Attacking unit: Space Marine WS3+, so 6.667 avg hits
MAUL: S6 vs. T6 -> 4+ (3.333) | Save 4+ (*1.667*)
AXE: S5 vs. T6 -> 5+ (2.222) | Save 5+ (1.481 )
SWORD: S4 vs. T6 -> 6+ (1.111) | Save 6+ (0.926)

Outcome: Let's not attack vehicles with power weapons. It's not very effective. But if we need to, let's bring a Maul. Point of note, for all that it's edging out the Axe when you're horribly outmatched, I think we want to leave the swords in the armory this edition.




EDIT: Point of order if we discuss this further, we can actually leave the WS out of it for this edition, which would've saved me some numbers as the same weapon will ALWAYS perform best whether I'm using a WS3 S3 Guardsman or a WS4 S3 Celestian. 

EDIT 2: Attacking Battle Sisters with S3 units is best done with Axes, S4 units the Power Sword equals but does not exceed them.

EDIT 3: Moved math into a spoiler as it was *WRONG*.


----------



## darkreever

Page 18 or 19 of this thread (post 185), Khorbes Fist quoted how to wound works now. No 10x10 table like previous editions, now if your strength is double or greater the targets toughness you wound on a +2, if S is simply greater than T it's a +3, if they are equal it's +4, S is less than T is +5 and S is half or less T it's +6. 

Simpler and faster, and how I went about getting the numbers I did.

Using the strength of a battle sister, and assuming they are going to be WS+3 like marines you'd have:
Maul: 4.5 wounds, 3.7 unsaved wounds
Axe: 4.5 wounds, 4.5 unsaved wounds
Sword: 3.4 wounds, 3.4 unsaved wounds

In my previous post when I mentioned doing better against guardsmen, for some reason I gave them a +4 save instead of +5. Just replace guardsmen in my post with firewarriors.


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## Shandathe

darkreever said:


> Page 18 or 19 of this thread (post 185), Khorbes Fist quoted how to wound works now. No 10x10 table like previous editions, now if your strength is double or greater the targets toughness you wound on a +2, if S is simply greater than T it's a +3, if they are equal it's +4, S is less than T is +5 and S is half or less T it's +6.
> 
> Simpler and faster, and how I went about getting the numbers I did.
> 
> Using the strength of a battle sister, and assuming they are going to be WS+3 like marines you'd have:
> Maul: 4.5 wounds, 3.7 unsaved wounds
> Axe: 4.5 wounds, 4.5 unsaved wounds
> Sword: 3.4 wounds, 3.4 unsaved wounds
> 
> In my previous post when I mentioned doing better against guardsmen, for some reason I gave them a +4 save instead of +5. Just replace guardsmen in my post with firewarriors.


Thanks  
So, since we can leave off WS as a concern for weapon effectiveness, starting with 10 hits:

Battle Sister (or Guardsman) vs. Guardsman(T3, Save 5+) 
Maul: S5 vs T3 (greater) -> 3+ for 6.667 wounds, save 6+ for 5.555 unsaved wounds
*Axe: S4 vs T3 (greater) -> 3+ for 6.667 wounds, save NA for 6.667 unsaved wounds*
Sword: S3 vs T3 (equal) -> 4+ for 5 wounds, save NA for 5 unsaved wounds

Battle Sister (or Guardsman) vs. Battle Sister(T3, Save 3+) 
Maul: S5 vs T3 (greater) -> 3+ for 6.667 wounds, save 4+ for 3.333 unsaved wounds
*Axe: S4 vs T3 (greater) -> 3+ for 6.667 wounds, save 5+ for 4.444 unsaved wounds*
Sword: S3 vs T3 (equal) -> 4+ for 5 wounds, save 6+ for 4.1667 unsaved wounds

Battle Sister (or Guardsman) vs. Marine (T4, Save 3+) 10 hits 
*Maul: S5 vs T4 (greater) -> 3+ for 6.667 wounds, save 4+ for 3.333 unsaved wounds
Axe: S4 vs T4 (equal) -> 4+ for 5 wounds, save 5+ for 3.333 unsaved wounds*
Sword: S3 vs T4 (lesser) -> 5+ for 3.333 wounds, save 6+ for 2.778 unsaved wounds

Battle Sister (or Guardsman) vs. Marine in Terminator armour (T4, Save 2+) 10 hits 
Maul: S5 vs T4 (greater) -> 3+ for 6.667 wounds, save 3+ for 2.222 unsaved wounds
*Axe: S4 vs T4 (equal) -> 4+ for 5 wounds, save 4+ for 2.5 unsaved wounds*
Sword: S3 vs T4 (lesser) -> 5+ for 3.333 wounds, save 5+ for 2.222 unsaved wounds

Battle Sister (or Guardsman) vs. Ork Boy (T4, Save 6+) 10 hits 
*Maul: S5 vs T4 (greater) -> 3+ for 6.667 wounds, save NA for 6.667 unsaved wounds*
Axe: S4 vs T4 (equal) -> 4+ for 5 wounds, save NA for 5 unsaved wounds
Sword: S3 vs T4 (lesser) -> 5+ for 3.333 wounds, save NA for 3.333 unsaved wounds

Battle Sister (or Guardsman) vs. Ork Boy in ' Eavy Armour (T4, Save 4+) 10 hits 
*Maul: S5 vs T4 (greater) -> 3+ for 6.667 wounds, save 5+ for 4.444 unsaved wounds*
Axe: S4 vs T4 (equal) -> 4+ for 5 wounds, save 6+ for 4.167 unsaved wounds
Sword: S3 vs T4 (lesser) -> 5+ for 3.333 wounds, save NA for 3.333 unsaved wounds

So my mistake with the To Wound mostly boosts the Axe's performance - though against Marines (still the most common foe) the Maul keeps up and gets better as saves get worse. Sword still not really worth taking, which is annoying as most models come with it standard...

EDIT: Snuck the Terminator in there


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## Khorne's Fist

> Lock your safety harness and keep your hands and feet inside the vehicle, folks – today we’re looking at Transports.
> 
> Loads of you have been asking on our Warhammer 40,000 facebook page for a few more details on this, so we’ll see what we can do to answer your questions.
> 
> Transports have some pretty fundamental changes in the new Warhammer 40,000. Previously, they were a bit of a mixed bag, and while usually quite a good tool to keep your troops alive and get them across the battlefield, a lot of the time, their main purpose ended up being just to soak up the first volley of enemy heavy weapon shots meant for the squad inside.
> 
> In the new Warhammer 40,000, Transports are almost universally, better: they are more durable, faster, many are better at shooting, and all have fewer limitations on the units disembarking from them. For example, a unit disembarking from a Transport is no longer prevented from charging that turn.
> 
> Units now disembark at the start of the Movement phase, before the Transport moves, but can then move, shoot and fight normally in that turn. This opens up loads of tactical options for both shooting and combat themed armies, especially now that multiple units can share a single Transport up to its capacity.
> 
> For a combat army, this will mean you will need to get your Transports where you need them in the previous turn for maximum effect. One tactic we’ve seen used to good effect already is to then use the Transport to charge in alongside the unit into combat!
> 
> We’ve seen already that vehicles can charge and fight in melee like all other models, and while they might not be the kings of close combat, they are generally pretty durable and can soak up the firepower of enemy units in overwatch before their potentially more fragile passengers make it in. This is particularly handy with units like Wyches, Ork Boyz and Harlequins, to whom overwatch fire can prove especially deadly.
> 
> Here’s an example, of one such Transport: the Harlequin Starweaver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see already that this it is likely to be considerably more durable than it is today, and the skill of the Harlequin pilots even makes it not too shabby in a fight. This being open-topped too, the passengers in it can shoot normally even after that huge 16″ move, and still shoot pistols into units that are in combat with their Transport in their own Shooting phase!
> 
> It doesn’t all go Transports’ way though. Being inside an exploding vehicle is still bad news. Models inside a wrecked Transport will now die on the roll of a 1. This isn’t so bad for units like Orks and Guardsmen, who were used to taking a few casualties when losing their Transport, but is going to hurt a bit more for elite units, so be sure to put valuable units in your most durable Transports, like Land Raiders and Battlewagons.
> 
> So, lots to take in there – expect a lot of Transports to play a much bigger part in the new edition.
> 
> We’ll be back on Monday to kick off the week with some news from Ultramar.


Assaulting from standard vehicles is big. I think we'll see a huge amount of razorbacks back on the table. Around here they've been absent since 5th Ed. I'll also be interested to see what they do with land raiders to make them stand out from the crowd now that they'll lose a little of what makes them special.


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## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Tyranids
*​Tyranids have been a part of the fabric of the Warhammer 40,000 universe for decades. For me, I loved them from the first time I saw a Genestealer model* many moons ago. Reading the fantastic stories about them in the books and imagining the overwhelming power they brought to bear was incredible and really brought them to life for me. They scour entire galaxies of life, absorbing it all and using it to create even more and deadlier Tyranid bioweapons. The terror they inspire is primal: the fear of being eaten!

On the tabletop, Tyranids have had their ups and downs. Their most recent iteration has struggled to keep pace with some of the more powerful armies, and for many Tyranids players, the Winged Hive Tyrant with dual devourers has been the unit carrying all the weight of the faction on his back (its wings must be pretty tired!). I am here to tell you, that all of that changes in the new edition.

I’d be remiss if I didn’t start out with my all time favourite Tyranid unit: the Swarmlord. He is an absolute beast now, as he should be! With a Toughness value of 6, 12 Wounds, a 3+ save and a 5+ invulnerable save (increased to a 4+ invulnerable save in melee) he is not easily taken down. This can be further enhanced by casting Catalyst on him (and did I mention he’s a potent Psyker, too?) to give him a 5+ save vs Wounds suffered.










But it’s not just defence, oh no, Mr. Swarmlord brings the pain in combat as well. With a base of Strength of 7, 8 attacks, hitting on a 2+, with an AP value of -3 and D6 damage a pop, the Swarmlord can lay low even Titanic units in a single round of combat. Truly a fearsome adversary.

However, his ability that I have found to be most useful is Hive Commander, which allows a friendly unit to move in the Shooting phase. This is incredibly powerful for the sudden added mobility. For Hormagants, with their blisteringly quick Movement of 8″, this means a potential 16″ move before attempting a charge. Or he could simply use it on himself and move up to 18″…

That’s just one combo out of dozens, too!

Genestealers, who are the iconic Tyranid unit in my eyes, are absolutely lethal. Not only are they incredibly fast with an 8″ Move themselves, they can also charge after advancing. With their shiny new 5+ invulnerable save, they’re also hardy, and I often cast Catalyst on them too, because I am a mean, mean man.

But to really crank the power up to 11 with Genestealers, take them in units of 10 or more to trigger their Flurry of Claws special rule, bumping them up to 4 Attacks each. Combo this with the Broodlord (who is also, utterly deadly in melee) to also give them a +1 to hit in the Fight phase. That means a full unit of 20 has 80 Attacks hitting on a 2+. With their Rending Claws – which bump up to AP -4 on a 6 to wound – very few units in the game can withstand a full strength Genestealer charge!

There’s so much to be happy about as a Tyranid player it is hard to cover it all. But we have a few more tidbits for you all before we close this article.

For one, due to the changes in the way damage works, medium sized Tyranids are much more enjoyable to play. A Tyranid Warrior with 3 Wounds and a Toughness value of 4 is so much more durable than he was, that it’s incredible. I’ve been using them as midfield Synapse providers who are both good with close range shooting and in melee.

And Synapse, hmm, what type of benefit does that provide? Nothing less than immunity to morale for friendly Tyranids units within range. Bring on the hordes of little gribblies!

And lastly, just because I can’t help myself: I think Pyrovores may be one of the most improved units in the new edition, and a unit of them in a Tyrannocyte has won me many a game!


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## Brother Lucian

The tyranids will be omnomnomming overconfident marines faster than a power pellet charged Pacman can gobble the ghosts!


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## Shandathe

Khorne's Fist said:


> Assaulting from standard vehicles is big. I think we'll see a huge amount of razorbacks back on the table. Around here they've been absent since 5th Ed. I'll also be interested to see what they do with land raiders to make them stand out from the crowd now that they'll lose a little of what makes them special.


Huh. Not sure why people wouldn't be bringing Razorbacks over there - they're honestly pretty good units. Rhinos are meant to get close to the enemy, so the handful of points to slap a Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer on a Rhino to imitate the Sisters' glorious Immolator seems like a no-brainer.

As for Land Raiders standing out from the crowd... Even if they don't get a special rule for the assault ramp, the vast majority of weapons on a Land Raider is twin-linked (all but the Redeemer's Flamestorm Cannons) so that's nearly double firepower on them. They're going to be fantastically dangerous, presumably in addition to being fantastically tough.


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## darkreever

Wouldn't be surprised if the assault ramp allows a unit to disembark and charge in the assault phase rather than get out in the movement. That's make it stand out pretty quickly.


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## scscofield

Or it could be they can disembark after the vehicle moves instead of before.


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## Khorne's Fist

scscofield said:


> Or it could be they can disembark after the vehicle moves instead of before.


My 15 man blood claw squad with accompanying wolf priest in a crusader would love that.


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## Mdauben

scscofield said:


> Or it could be they can disembark after the vehicle moves instead of before.


I'd dust off my Black Templars and Land Raider Crusader for that.  

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## Khorne's Fist

Today we take a look at brutal urban combat in the 41st Millennium and a little bit at how terrain works in the new game generally.

Battles in the sprawling gothic hives of the Imperium provide many of the most iconic images of war in the 41st Millennium. To recreate battles like this in the new edition, you need look no further than the new Warhammer 40,000‘s Advanced Rules on Cities of Death. These rules, like the Stronghold Assault rules we’ve seen already, are an optional add-on to theme your battles and add more variety to your games. In these types of games, certain units will thrive, while others will find their paths across the battlefield more limited.

So, speaking of cities… let’s chat about ruins.

The crumbling masonry of once-proud Imperial architecture has been a staple of Warhammer 40,000 battlefields for a while now. In the new Warhammer 40,000, they still will be, but the way they interact with the game will be a little different. Their impact takes the form of bonuses for units with certain keywords, and limitations for others.

Infantry are the big winners here. They alone have the flexibility and dexterity to move easily between levels of a building, over ruined walls, through doors, hatches and windows, as well as taking advantage of holes blasted in the ruins themselves. They are also the only units that benefit from cover naturally, just for being in a ruin. Other units (monsters, vehicles etc…) will need to actually be obscured to gain any bonus.

In Cities of Death games, these bonuses get even better – if a unit does not move, its cover bonus from being in a ruin is increased from a +1 to their Armour Save to +2, representing the unit digging into cover and fortifying their position. This can make even a humble Guardsman squad difficult to shift, and a power armoured unit all but invulnerable.

It’s not just Infantry though, flying units will do very well in Cities of Death games, as they are able to leap from rooftop to rooftop easily. Some of these units will be Infantry as well! Imagine facing an entire army of Night Lords Raptors in the twisting streets of a ruined hive, and you start to understand what terror means…

It’s not going all Infantry’s way of course. There are solutions to dug-in enemies. Grenades for example. Any Grenade thrown at a unit in ruins will always count as having rolled the maximum number of shots (6, in the case of a frag grenade) and can reroll to wound thanks to the “Fire in the Hole” mission rule.

One last thing Cities of Death gets us is a new selection of Stratagems. One of our favourites is Sewer Rat, which lets you set up a sneaky unit of subterranean infiltrators in the enemy’s face during deployment or right on an objective.



One war zone where the narrative certainly calls for Cities of Death battles is Ultramar. At the end of the Gathering Storm, we already saw the forces of the Traitor Legions launch their attack on the Ultramarines utopian* worlds. Now the great cities of every planet are either surrounded or active battlefields.

With his home under siege, you better believe that the liberation of the 500 Worlds** are high on the list for Guilliman’s Indomitus Crusade…

*Well, by Imperial standards anyway.
**Being in stasis for 10,000 years, it probably only feels like yesterday to Guilliman that he liberated them from the Traitor Legions the first time…


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## Khorne's Fist

Breaking news!
OK guys and gals, we have the release date for the new edition!
You can pre-order your copy from the 3rd of June and pick it up in stores on June 17th.
Find out more about the launch line-up for the new game, and the contents of the ultimate Warhammer 40,000 box set, Dark Imperium here:
https://goo.gl/0aGLgs


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## Brother Lucian

*https://www.warhammer-community.com...aunch-date-announced-may22gw-homepage-post-1/
*

*Warhammer 40,000 Launch Date Announced*












June 3rd – mark your calendars folks, because that’s the day you’ll be able to pre-order your copy of the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. You’ll then be among the first to get your hands on it come release day on June 17th.






Incredible stuff! Here in the Warhammer Community Team, we think that the models alone make this the best Warhammer 40,000 box set ever made. Discussion has already begun about who’s buying two sets in order to bulk out their forces and, as is a time-honoured tradition, there are plenty of pledges of swapsies as the team vie to gain either more Space Marines or Death Guard.
And yet, Dark Imperium is really just the beginning. The launch lineup for the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 is the most extensive we’ve had for any game we’ve ever released. So brace yourself, and let’s dive on in!
This is an awesome box set. Inside, you get two armies of brand new miniatures, the full hardback Warhammer 40,000 book, dice and range rulers. Even the outside is covered in gorgeous artwork, and the sight of all those goodies as you open the box for the first time is very satisfying… but a bit more on that later… 












Fresh from the forges of Mars, and ready to bleed in defence of the Imperium, the Primaris Space Marines have come tooled for war. The bolt rifle-wielding Intercessors are the mainstay of the force. Alongside them march plasma-toting Hellblasters, providing deadly fire-support. And dropping in from orbit are Inceptors with the short range fury of their twin assault bolters.










Intercessor Squad 










Intercessor Squad 










Hellblaster Squad 










Inceptor Squad 


Leading these new warriors are the champions of the Primaris Space Marines: the inspiring presence of the Lieutenants, the banner-carrying Ancients, and the commander of the force, a Captain clad in new Gravis armour.










Primaris Lieutenant with power sword 










Primaris Lieutenant with auto bolt rifle 










Primaris Ancient 










Captain in Gravis armour 


The Death Guard are equally impressive. First up, a unit of Plague Marines. The archetypal unit of the XIV Legion swollen with the raw power of decay, these form of the core of any Death Guard force. Nurgle fans will also be pleased to see a shambling plague host represented by the repugnant and varied Poxwalkers, each draped in scraps of clothing from their former lives. There is a new vehicle on offer too – the Foetid Bloat-drone, a floating Daemon Engine that hunts its prey with a malign intelligence. 











Plague Marines










Foetid Bloat-drone










Poxwalkers


Rounding off the Death Guard are their own leaders, including a huge new Lord of Contagion, clad in warped Cataphractii Terminator plate and wielding one of the most brutal looking axes we’ve ever seen. Alongside him is the Noxious Blightbringer, a dark reflection of the noble Legion banner bearers of old, who carries a cursed plague bell that tolls with the death knell of his victims. Last but not least is the Malignant Plaguecaster – one of the pestilent sorcerers of this pox-ridden Legion.











Lord of Contagion










Noxious Blightbringer










Malignant Plaguecaster

A complete set of datasheets to field both these Death Guard and Primaris Space Marines armies are included in two separate booklets inside the box. You’ll also find a host of new background information on the two forces and on the Plague Wars being fought in Ultramar.











And of course, there’s the new Warhammer 40,000 book itself. This 280-page, hardback tome is included in the Dark Imperium box and is also available separately. This book is your guide to the new edition and contains an extensive exploration of the Warhammer 40,000 setting. This includes some pretty major advancements in the story for every faction in the galaxy, not least of which are the arrival of the Great Rift, the rise of Chaos, and the launching of the Indomitus Crusade.
And rules. Lots of rules. All the rules you need to wage the bloodiest of wars in the far future. Alongside the core rules for the game, there are missions, full guidelines for the 3 ways to play (open, narrative and matched) and advanced rules to represent the myriad war zones of the far future, including all the rules you need to play games of Cities of Death, Planetstrike, Stronghold Assault and Death from the Skies.





















This is easily the most complete Warhammer 40,000 book to date.
And you needn’t take just our word for it. Last week, we gave a couple of Warhammer store managers a peek at the Warhammer 40,000 book and filmed their first reactions – take a look:










Also, while we’re on the subject of rules, we’ve some great news – the core rules for Warhammer 40,000 will be available for free! You’ll be able to download the Battle Primer PDF on games-workshop.com and warhammer40000.com from June 17th.
Current players will probably still want to pick up either the full Warhammer 40,000 book or the Dark Imperium box set though, as this gets you the Advanced Rules sections, loads more missions, as well as stratagems for open, narrative and matched play and of course, over 100 pages of new lore and background on the shape of the galaxy in the new Warhammer 40,000.
Okay. Where are we? Awesome box set? Check. Epic miniatures? Check. Greatest Warhammer 40,000 book ever? Check. What else…











Of course! The Indexes! These five books are the most requested things from you guys and gals out there; all of you wanted to be able to use your army with the new edition from day one. No problem.
Between them, these five softback Index books provide rules for every single Warhammer 40,000 Citadel Miniature we sell. They are broken down into themed books: 2 for the Imperium, 1 for the forces of Chaos, and 2 for the xenos races of the galaxy. 
To start gaming with your existing army, you just need the box set or the Warhammer 40,000 book and whichever Index book has their datasheets and you’re good to go.











Oh, and don’t worry, this doesn’t mean Orks and Tyranids are now on the same side, it just means they share a book for the moment. In the future, they’ll get their own dedicated codexes. 

Accompanying the new box set and books are a range of gaming accessories for the new edition. These include new Tactical Objective cards, Command Dice, Wound Trackers, a flexible Combat Gauge and the most thematic set of Warhammer 40,000 objective markers we’ve ever made, including a mini-supply drop pod and a xenos bio-containment tank.











Tactical Objectives










Command Dice










Wound Trackers










Combat Gauge










Sector Imperialis Objectives


Last up, for you Warhammer 40,000 fiction fans out there, we have the Dark Imperium novel from Guy Haley. This will be the first Black Library book (of many), set after the events of the Gathering Storm and starring the Primarch Roboute Guilliman, the new Primaris Space Marines and their mortal (and in some cases immortal) enemies, the Death Guard.










So there you have it – the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 is so very nearly here. The release date is set. The galaxy is burning. All that remains is for you decide if you’re going to stand against the darkness or rain fire on what remains of the galaxy’s crumbling realms… 












Remember to keep checking back all throughout this week and next as we continue to look at all the new aspects of Warhammer 40,000.


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## Brother Lucian

Loaded with interesting news! So the tyranids, orks and eldar will get their seperate codices later on. And pretty good choice of Guy Haley to write the opening novel, great author.

So it does look like that Intersessors are the tactical equivalent. Hellblasters is devastators and Inceptors assault. Hellblasters looks like a powerful punch with x5 plasma weapons. 

Gravis armor looks interesting, seems like a souped up version of Terminator armor.

And finally, is it just me, but does the heads on several primaris marines looking badly placed? Not centered and awful lot of visible flat space inside the gorget.


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## Lord of the Night

Fantastic post Lucian, here's the video to go with it:







LotN


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## Entarion

Yea..this is something. I will need time to digest some SM models. Especially Inceptor squad. They look a bit weird. But some minor conversion may improve the look.

I wonder if there will be any limited edition for the core rules. But otherwise nice box.


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## Brother Lucian

Ah, looks like my attempt at adding the videos failed. And morning there, folks.


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## Mdauben

Sone great looking miniatures, particularly the Death Guard. 

I'm not sure how I feel about the 280 page hard cover rulebook or the idea that these new army books for everyone seem to just be get-you-by lists until they can start churning out new codexes. I guess I though we were going to see 40K take a few of the good things from AoS (simpler rules and warscrolls) but it looks more like buisness as usual. 

Well, I guess the proof will be in the actual rulebook and codexes. A really new edition or more of the same rules bloat and codex creep that drove me away from 40K already?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk


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## Khorne's Fist

Entarion said:


> Yea..this is something. I will need time to digest some SM models. Especially Inceptor squad. They look a bit weird. But some minor conversion may improve the look.


Agreed. Loving them all except the inceptors. I will agree with points from earlier in the thread though, that the plague marines look like AoS minis with bolters stuck on. Some may say that's a natural evolution of having the same lads sculpt them, but I'd like to see a distinctly different identity between the systems, even if the minis both follow the same god.


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## Brother Lucian

Some speculation ive heard regarding the inceptors, why they look so unusual. That they might be true jetpack troops instead of just jumping.


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## neferhet

having seen them clearly, i can now say that i absolutely dislike the new look of the death guard. chaos warriors with bolters (and bells!). no fine details, just big, lumbering horns and bells, not sculpted models, but cut with a sledgehammer. really bad. primaris marines are cool, just the flying squad is badly posed. (also, another new set of power armour! we needed that too!)
I hope the book will be available separately from those bad models?
Also, 280 pages...i assume that more than 100 will be fluff (cool!), another 100+ will be extras, missions, cityes of death etc. So, actual rules for the normal game? How many pages? 20ish? 30ish?


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## scscofield

I am on the fence about the starter box. Digital costs and availability are a big factor at the moment for me. I actually like all the models in the box but haven't played power armour units since 6th. Not sure if I want to start doing so again.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Shandathe

Primaris Space Marines:
I'm looking at the Inceptors and aside from the somewhat weird look... can't help but think that some designer went "Hey, those Seraphim the Sisters have are kinda cool... let's give them to the Space Marines, but BETTER."

Can't tell if the Hellblasters are carrying plasma gun or plasma cannon, so it'll probably be somewhere in between.

Question, why is he called an Ancient if he only just escaped from Mars?

Death Guard: 
I propose every Death Guard player has to play 2 Live Crew's "Me So Horny" when entering a store or event hall. :wink2: (Not linking the video on account of remembering it to be NSFW)

I like the look of the Poxwalkers a lot, probably the best new models of the lot.
Death Guard Marines Look decent to good, though if I ever pick any up I'd be filing the horns down to something more reasonable. 
While I'm sure the Lord of Contagion would be a terror to meet IRL he looks kinda silly with those bells...


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## Brother Lucian

By the time 8th edition launches, the Indomitus crusade is already well on the way with many worlds freed. So plenty of time for Primaris marines to both to earn Ancient status, as well ending up in dreadnoughts.


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## neferhet

Brother Lucian said:


> By the time 8th edition launches, the Indomitus crusade is already well on the way with many worlds freed. So plenty of time for Primaris marines to both to earn Ancient status, as well ending up in dreadnoughts.


Indeed. It looks like we will not begin in 001.M41 but much later. I mean, you can't free dozens of worlds in just a year, right? Right??:laugh2:
Story moves forward a lot. This i like. Altough i'll be retconning lots of stuff in my mind :laugh:


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## Brother Lucian

neferhet said:


> Indeed. It looks like we will not begin in 001.M41 but much later. I mean, you can't free dozens of worlds in just a year, right? Right??:laugh2:
> Story moves forward a lot. This i like. Altough i'll be retconning lots of stuff in my mind :laugh:


Dont forget the Great Crusade. The expanding Imperium liberated star system at a breakneck pace only in 200 years. And we got a primarch again with an entire 'legion' under him.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

> *Forge World and the New Warhammer 40,000*​
> We’ve seen already today what the launch line-up for the new Warhammer 40,000 will be from our main studio (and if you didn’t then check it out here).
> 
> As well as your Citadel Miniatures, we know that loads of you love to include Forge World models in your forces or even make whole armies of these more specialised kits. Don’t worry, we have you covered.
> 
> Much like Citadel Miniatures, rules for the extensive Warhammer 40,000 Forge World range will be made available in a series of Index books. The first two of these will be available alongside the new edition of Warhammer 40,000, available to pre-order on the 3rd of June. These first two books will cover the forces of the Adeptus Astartes and their traitorous kin.
> 
> Rules for all the rest of the Warhammer 40,000 Forge World range, including the myriad xenos races of the galaxy and the massed forces of the Astra Militarum and their accompanying Imperial Agents, will all be appearing in additional Index books that set to be released before the end of June. Every single Warhammer 40,000 miniature that Forge World make today will be covered, as well as a few classic ones. Also included are rules for a few characters who do not yet have a model, such as some heroes and villains of the Badab Wars. On top of that, several units will be made available to factions that never previously had access to them, and on Wednesday this week, we’ll be taking a look at one of them when we see our first Forge World datasheet for the new edition.
> 
> For you Horus Heresy fans out there, Forge World will be announcing the future of that game system at Warhammer Fest this weekend. We’ll bring you the news from the event as it breaks, right here on the Warhammer Community site.


----------



## scscofield

That sounds like 30k will not be the same system

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Khorne's Fist

I'm looking forward to using all my Contemptors actually as Contemptors, rather than counts as.


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## koosbeer

This set excites me! I will be grabbing it when it becomes available in SA! Always wanted some death guard. These will round out the collection


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## neferhet

Exactly @Brother Lucian , 200 years for the whole liberation. We can expect 100 years timelapse since Guilliman will have to free just half of the empire (the dark empire part is just lost, for now), so plenty of time for the BigMarines to earn veteranship and dreadnoughtification.


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## scscofield

So far the most annoying thing is how much they hyped not needing books anymore then poof preorders for books you need and don't worry we will make those books obsolete in a few months when we do individual factions

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Fallen

scscofield said:


> So far the most annoying thing is how much they hyped not needing books anymore then poof preorders for books you need and don't worry we will make those books obsolete in a few months when we do individual factions


Didn't they start this all off saying that the new rule set and "codexs", or faction books or whatever, would be a free PDF to start with?

That's what I assumed...

I'll be honest, if that's not the case then this new edition is going to be put on hold until I can acquire funds for books, since my funding is towards models...


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## scscofield

Near as I can tell they are spitting out a PDF of the basic rules and data sheets. It will not have any 'Advanced Rules'. I'm betting anyone that has been playing will view the game as unplayable without the advanced rules.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## DaisyDuke

Hmm, on mass the new marines look impressive. I am of mixed opinion on the nurgle elements, 3 of the death guard look great, 1 needs some serious de horning and the other 3 look like blight kings with guns. And I'm sorry but what's with all the stupid grinning faces on the pox walkers? The blight drone again looks good but not a patch on the original FW sculpt. Characters look like they busted open the standard nurgle bits. Hopefully the rest of the death guard releases pull up their socks a bit. Factions books look interesting, anyone know out about this....
Index: Chaos: Heretic Astartes, Chaos Daemons, *Questor Traitoris*.
It's the description of the book I got in a sales email.


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## neferhet

Indexes books truly stinks: they already said there will be codexes for everyone so it's just 20 bucks thrown in the garbage and waiting (6 months tops) to be rendered obsolete. I'm running out of hipe, honestly. Old GW playing peekabo under this new reassuring mask, if you ask me.
The pricing, if confirmed, seems a bit lower than usual, so that's something.


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## neferhet

A guy leaked this shit: (hopefully more leaks to come)










Also, this:









EDIT: super juicy confirmation that units can CHARGE after entering battle from reserve!


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## scscofield

That's just a zoomed in shot of the box set core rule thing. It looks to be about 4 double sided pages worth of rules but yah, it's going to be way to basic for normal gameplay

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## neferhet

scscofield said:


> That's just a zoomed in shot of the box set core rule thing. It looks to be about 4 double sided pages worth of rules but yah, it's going to be way to basic for normal gameplay
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


yes, looks like the famous basic rules to play with, i guess this will be the free pdf thing.. I honestly will give it a try with narrative power levels, to get a grasp of the game.


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## Brother Lucian

*https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-death-guard/

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Death Guard*


_Continuing our Faction Focus series for the new Warhammer 40,000, Frankie returns to tell us about what we can expect from the Death Guard, who are featured in the new Dark Imperium box set, available to pre-order on June 3rd._
_Frankie is one of the team members who runs some of the biggest Warhammer 40,000 events in the world, including the Las Vegas Open and the recently announced SoCal Open. He’s also been part of the playtesting team for the new edition. 
_










Death Guard are one of my favourite armies in the grim darkness of the far future, and the second army I ever owned. Blessed by father Nurgle with inhuman resistance to pain (and innumerable, horrific diseases, too!), these implacable warriors march through punishing damage as if it were no more than a gentle rain.










Death Guard in the current edition play to their background relatively well thanks to their high Toughness and having the Feel No Pain universal special rule. This is further backed up by Plague Marines being able to wound fleshy targets more easily with their poisoned blades. However, due to their high points cost in what we will soon be calling matched play, they aren’t actually seen on the tabletops in very high numbers. 
Let’s see how they play in new Warhammer 40,000. 
First of all, they keep a pain-ignoring mechanic, which is now called Disgustingly Resilient, as we saw with Nurglings. The best thing about it is that you still get the save, even if you get hit with high Strength weapons that would have previously prevented you from getting a save due to the Instant Death rule. However, the fact that those high-Strength weapons usually do more than 1 Damage now, means you may need to take multiple Disgustingly Resilient rolls. Furthermore, in an all Death Guard Detachment, Plague Marines are Troops – which can help you unlock more Command Points with a Battalion detachment.











Plague Marines are still Toughness 5, which means a lot of attacks only wound them on 5s. Their plague knives now allow you to re-roll wound rolls of 1 in close combat, but I think the most exciting thing about the new Plague Marines, is their new weapon, the blight launcher – an Assault 2, Strength 6, AP -2 weapon that deals D3 damage at 24″ range. Plague Marines will be tearing enemies apart from a distance and in combat. Overall, a very dependable Troops choice.
Another unit to get excited about are Poxwalkers, the other Troops choice for the Death Guard. Coming in at 6 points in matched play with Disgustingly Resilient, they are a very solid pick. This unit also never has to take morale tests, which means you have to kill them to the last man (zombie?) which is not an easy task. Another cool rule they have is Curse of the Walking Pox, allowing you to add another Poxwalker to the unit every time they slay any enemy Infantry models. This unit is great for holding objectives or for screening your more valuable units from the hyper-fast assault units we’ve seen in armies like Tyranids. Also, if you’ve got Typhus on the table, he increases the Strength and Toughness of nearby Poxwalkers by 1 with his special ability, bolstering their already formidable durability!











The Death Guard also get Miasma of Pestilence – a psychic power which you cast onto one of your own units so that, until your next turn, your opponent must subtract 1 from all hit rolls that target that unit. This paired with the high Toughness of this faction and Disgustingly Resilient makes Death Guard units extraordinarily difficult to get rid of, just as you’d expect them to be.
There’s more to say of course, but our time is running out today. I hope you are ready to bring your Death Guard army out of retirement!
_Another fine article from Frankie there… wait… what’s that? Can you hear that, off in the distance? Sounds like a Waaagh! is headed this way… come back on Thursday to learn about Orks in the new edition._


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## gen.ahab

Oh, fuck me sideways; this is going to get expensive.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Roganzar

gen.ahab said:


> Oh, fuck me sideways; this is going to get expensive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Yeah, I'm going to guess around $200 for the box. Plus, based on GW's usual pricing $25-$30 per Index. Of which I'm going to have to pickup two of them.


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## Roganzar

From Forgeworld, and maybe missed in all the other news.


> Forge World and the New Warhammer 40,000
> 
> 
> We’ve seen already today what the launch line-up for the new Warhammer 40,000 will be from our main studio (and if you didn’t then check it out here).
> 
> As well as your Citadel Miniatures, we know that loads of you love to include Forge World models in your forces or even make whole armies of these more specialised kits. Don’t worry, we have you covered.
> 
> Much like Citadel Miniatures, rules for the extensive Warhammer 40,000 Forge World range will be made available in a series of Index books. The first two of these will be available alongside the new edition of Warhammer 40,000, available to pre-order on the 3rd of June. These first two books will cover the forces of the Adeptus Astartes and their traitorous kin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rules for all the rest of the Warhammer 40,000 Forge World range, including the myriad xenos races of the galaxy and the massed forces of the Astra Militarum and their accompanying Imperial Agents, will all be appearing in additional Index books that set to be released before the end of June. Every single Warhammer 40,000 miniature that Forge World make today will be covered, as well as a few classic ones. Also included are rules for a few characters who do not yet have a model, such as some heroes and villains of the Badab Wars. On top of that, several units will be made available to factions that never previously had access to them, and on Wednesday this week, we’ll be taking a look at one of them when we see our first Forge World datasheet for the new edition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For you Horus Heresy fans out there, Forge World will be announcing the future of that game system at Warhammer Fest this weekend. We’ll bring you the news from the event as it breaks, right here on the Warhammer Community site.


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## scscofield

It is a few posts back actually

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## Lord of the Night

gen.ahab said:


> Oh, fuck me sideways; this is going to get expensive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk





Roganzar said:


> Yeah, I'm going to guess around $200 for the box. Plus, based on GW's usual pricing $25-$30 per Index. Of which I'm going to have to pickup two of them.


Actually Spikey Bits has posted the prices, these are rumours mind you but they are rumours that multiple sources seem to corroborate.



Spikey Bits said:


> 8th Edition Starter Set: Featuring 53 miniatures and includes the Hardcover 8th Edition rulebook $160/£95
> 
> 8th Edition Rulebook: 280 Pages $80/£50
> 
> 8th Edition Index Books: Multiple Factions $25/£15.50 each


So ultimately if you want the rulebook separately you pay £50, or less if you buy third-party, and if you want the Starter Set with it you get the box and book for £95, so about £50 for the book and £45 for the box which is an INSAAAANE deal. I'm definitely getting this one.


LotN


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## Roganzar

$160 for that???
We shit, that thing is getting sold out fast!


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## gen.ahab

Lord of the Night said:


> Actually Spikey Bits has posted the prices, these are rumours mind you but they are rumours that multiple sources seem to corroborate.
> 
> 
> 
> So ultimately if you want the rulebook separately you pay £50, or less if you buy third-party, and if you want the Starter Set with it you get the box and book for £95, so about £50 for the book and £45 for the box which is an INSAAAANE deal. I'm definitely getting this one.
> 
> 
> LotN


Deal does not mean cheap.  

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Gret79

DaisyDuke said:


> anyone know out about this....
> Index: Chaos: Heretic Astartes, Chaos Daemons, *Questor Traitoris*.
> It's the description of the book I got in a sales email.


I think it might be Chaos Knights?


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## neferhet

Size comparison.
No longer adesptus astartes or space marines. The new IP will be MiniMarines.


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## Brother Lucian

Oldmarines will certainly have an inferiority complex with their new brethren. At least the Iron hands can cheat and bulk them selves with more augmetics ontop of their augmentics


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## Fallen

To quote someone from face book - "Primaris Marines are just space marine nobs."


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## Old Man78

I actually think that is a bit too big to be honest, looks those guys will be bigger than terminators


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## Entarion

One more comparison shot. I wonder if Gravis armour will replace terminator. They are really HUGE almost like Primarchs. I wonder how Guilliman is big compared to that. And those primaris look weird among "older" marines. I will definitely need some time to get used to it.

And I think it is a proper time for everyone who loves regular marines to hold a minute of silence for them because we won't see any new release for this range ever again.

And it is really shame because release of Deathwatch, Calth and Prospero models provided a great variability for regular SM.

Still I am quite excited for Primaris range though I have some issues with them. Will they introduce Chapter specific models (DAs, SWs) ? What chapters will they bring back and so on.


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## Brother Lucian

Found a rear shot of the Inceptors. 










So they have rocketboosters on their legs too, and explains the skates. Certainly gives crecendence to the blabber saying they are true flyers and not just jump infantry. Here comes the rocketeers! 

I picture them swooping around in the air, dodging incomming fire as they pump bullets into their groundbound foes.


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## scscofield

I am less worried about the size of them and more worried if they decide to size up mech for them.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Khorne's Fist

Going on these pics, I think their dread is going to be a monster.


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## neferhet

scscofield said:


> I am less worried about the size of them and more worried if they decide to size up mech for them.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


be very much prepared for the worse.


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## Brother Lucian

Khorne's Fist said:


> Going on these pics, I think their dread is going to be a monster.


Or would they? Do consider marines usually gets the sushi treatment before getting interred into a dreadnought sarcophagus. So not much left of them. My guess is an updated contemptor dreadnough in the new armor styles of the primaris. The custodes contemptors feels like a good base of comparision.


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## Roganzar

Entarion said:


> One more comparison shot. I wonder if Gravis armour will replace terminator. They are really HUGE almost like Primarchs. I wonder how Guilliman is big compared to that. And those primaris look weird among "older" marines. I will definitely need some time to get used to it.
> 
> And I think it is a proper time for everyone who loves regular marines to hold a minute of silence for them because we won't see any new release for this range ever again.
> 
> And it is really shame because release of Deathwatch, Calth and Prospero models provided a great variability for regular SM.
> 
> Still I am quite excited for Primaris range though I have some issues with them. Will they introduce Chapter specific models (DAs, SWs) ? What chapters will they bring back and so on.


I don't think that the Gravis armor is a replacement for Tactical Dreadnaught Armor. It looks more like a combination of the new armor mark (forget what number) and Guilliman's new armor. Additionally, the "hood" on it looks like the Interceptor's. Along with the standard power armor backpack.
I'd be willing to bet there will be a new Primaris Terminator armor set coming in the near future.

The size difference is quite pronounced with the Primaris being about a head taller and a touch bulkier than the Space Marine classic. Not sure if that's going to bother me or not. Can't really judge until I can get my hands on them.


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## Khorne's Fist

Brother Lucian said:


> The custodes contemptors feels like a good base of comparision.


Which is a monster compared to a SM dread...


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## Brother Lucian

Khorne's Fist said:


> Which is a monster compared to a SM dread...


I think you can be sure they wont outshine the golden bananas, they have monopoly on the bling.


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## Einherjar667

I did not see any of these guys in the boxed set. Wonder if theres going to be even more released in the following weeks.


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## Shandathe

Point of note, standing taller than a Terminator is nothing new. The Deathwatch Veterans already do that - which given that they're using the old Terminator kit for them does look kinda weird if you pay attention to it.


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## Roganzar

Einherjar667 said:


> I did not see any of these guys in the boxed set. Wonder if theres going to be even more released in the following weeks.


Most definitely.
The pictures have a Death Guard terminator, so squad of them probably. Then those are probably the Death Guard main kit. Finally, I'm betting on that being Mortarion's Scythe. What with a "cowled" Primarch returning.


----------



## ntaw

Shandathe said:


> Point of note, standing taller than a Terminator is nothing new. The Deathwatch Veterans already do that - which given that they're using the old Terminator kit for them does look kinda weird if you pay attention to it.


I thought people generally chalked that up to DW marines having a more upright pose, kind of like how Necron Warriors and Immortals are almost the same height but Warriors all look like they're taking a dump standing. Can't say I own the models in any way though (maybe still sore that the handheld DW frag cannon vastly out preformed the BA Dreadnought mounted one :/), are they just straight up bigger then?

I finally nailed down the thing that throws me off about the Primaris stuff: their knees are bent in. I stood up and tried to replicate some of their 'advancing' poses and almost fell over. Great details though, if I was starting out a collection instead of finishing a Battle Company I'd be all over them.


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## Brother Lucian

*New Warhammer 40,000: A Forge World Datasheet!*












Well, yesterday was exciting, wasn’t it?
Amidst the massive line-up of new releases due for pre-order on the 3rd of June were the Forge World Imperial Armour Index books for Space Marines and their traitorous counterparts.
We haven’t really talked about Forge World miniatures in the new Warhammer 40,000 yet, but now that the new books are confirmed, let’s take a look at a datasheet from one.











This guy is a Leviathan Dreadnought. And more than that, a Chaos one! The traitor’s look like they have opened up their 10,000-year-old vault of Legion Dreadnoughts for the new Warhammer 40,000. Against those new Primaris Space Marines, we’re sure Chaos players will appreciate the reinforcement.
Just a cursory glance at the stats on this guy, and we can see that he is an absolute monster! Some of the larger walkers, which previously fell a little short of super-heavy status in the last edition, do very well out of the new Warhammer 40,000 (Orks also do pretty well here).
Kitted out either for combat, shooting or a mix of both, this Dreadnought is going to wreck face. All of those weapons are looking like good options. There’s even a ranged weapon that kicks out mortal wounds – one of only a handful in the entire game. We think we’re veering towards a grav-flux bombard and hellforged siege drill as our favourite kit though. You budding Chaos Lords will have to decide for yourselves.











And that’s just one unit in one of the two Forge World Index books accompanying the launch of the new edition. And there will be more Index books on the way very soon after for other Forge World Imperial as well as xenos units.
We’ll be back tomorrow with a look at missions and objectives in the new edition.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wow, that chaos Dreadnought looks absurdly brutal and powerful, and suprisingly uncorrupted appearing. It seems like a missing link dreadnought variant between the Contemptor and the blocky Castraferrum types used by the present day imperium.


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## Khorne's Fist

Brother Lucian said:


> Wow, that chaos Dreadnought looks absurdly brutal and powerful, and suprisingly uncorrupted appearing. It seems like a missing link dreadnought variant between the Contemptor and the blocky Castraferrum types used by the present day imperium.


It's been out for quite a while, but has been HH only, thus the relatively uncorrupted state. Also, it's quite a bit bigger than a contemptor.


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## Einherjar667

Khorne's Fist said:


> It's been out for quite a while, but has been HH only, thus the relatively uncorrupted state. Also, it's quite a bit bigger than a contemptor.


I wonder if we will see upgrade kits for it then. When AoS was first being leaked, they mentioned "chaos variants" of every army, but.... we haven't seen any of that, so, it would be awesome to see 40k chaos upgrade kits for either the MK III and MK IVs of power armor, or the Leviathans, etc.

I did notice the armor for the Plague Marines in the box set does seem to resemble MK III

Sorry if that's a tangent, haha.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Einherjar667 said:


> I wonder if we will see upgrade kits for it then. When AoS was first being leaked, they mentioned "chaos variants" of every army, but.... we haven't seen any of that, so, it would be awesome to see 40k chaos upgrade kits for either the MK III and MK IVs of power armor, or the Leviathans, etc.


I'd say so. The Soulburner and butcher array weapons on the sheet aren't out yet, so if they're showing them here, they shouldn't be far away.

EDIT: Just preordered from my LGS, they're doing a great bundle deal with the tactical objective cards and index of your choice. Happy bunny.


----------



## Shandathe

ntaw said:


> I thought people generally chalked that up to DW marines having a more upright pose, kind of like how Necron Warriors and Immortals are almost the same height but Warriors all look like they're taking a dump standing. Can't say I own the models in any way though (maybe still sore that the handheld DW frag cannon vastly out preformed the BA Dreadnought mounted one :/), are they just straight up bigger then?


Allow me to demonstrate. From left to right (pic appears slightly skewed, but good enough for purpose): 
Recently built Cadian, provided for easy size reference
Sgt. Huey McPaintface, survivor of a dozen paintschemes - 10 years old or thereabouts? From the 3 marine starter set back then.
Deathwatch Veteran Gobo, recently built. Note poor Huey barely reaches his shoulders.
Terminator, from the same Watchblade Taskforce box. 

Note Gobo's left leg is in about the same angle as this guy's, though Gobo is stretching his right leg backwards. The Terminator is only a hair taller than Gobo, and Gobo beats him if we count the thingamabob on his backpack.


----------



## Aalidakh

Shandathe said:


> Allow me to demonstrate. From left to right (pic appears slightly skewed, but good enough for purpose):
> Recently built Cadian, provided for easy size reference
> Sgt. Huey McPaintface, survivor of a dozen paintschemes - 10 years old or thereabouts? From the 3 marine starter set back then.
> Deathwatch Veteran Gobo, recently built. Note poor Huey barely reaches his shoulders.
> Terminator, from the same Watchblade Taskforce box.
> 
> Note Gobo's left leg is in about the same angle as this guy's, though Gobo is stretching his right leg backwards. The Terminator is only a hair taller than Gobo, and Gobo beats him if we count the thingamabob on his backpack.


Interestingly, looking at that comparison pic also highlights there's a big difference between the older marine bases and the 32mm ones in height.

I recently rebased most of my space marines and was surprised by how much bigger they looked on the 32mm bases.

Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk


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## Roganzar

Khorne's Fist said:


> EDIT: Just preordered from my LGS, they're doing a great bundle deal with the tactical objective cards and index of your choice. Happy bunny.


Just pre-preordered mine as well from the FLGS here. They knock off 10% off of everything plus I've got a $10 coupon there right now. So boxset for $134 for me. I've been sitting on that coupon for a while now. :grin2:


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## neferhet

This from a facebook page... blog for the blood god










Might actually be true-ish. the xtra attack on the 6 to hit (not generating other attacks if another 6 is rolled i guess) might give some, SOME, more appeal to basic marines (altough i hope for some more love...) and the 2 pile ins are nasty as hell. 
Maybe usable only if certain keywords / number requirements are met?


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## neferhet

*New Warhammer 40,000: Missions*










Missions are still a big part of the new Warhammer 40,000.
Experienced players will often tell you that it’s just as important to play the mission as to obliterate your enemy to secure victory, and that’s just as true now.
There are a lot of missions in the new Warhammer 40,000 book, which will give players hundreds of hours of variety.
The most basic mission, Only War, is flexible enough for any style of game. This mission works with armies of any size (though two that have comparable total power levels work best). This mission will be available as part of the free rules in the Warhammer 40,000 Battle Primer and, of course, in the new book itself. 
 

You can see that the mission is simple to set up, and the varying objective types still make it a variable game that will have a lot of replayability.
For you veteran players out there, you may be looking for something a bit more in depth. Fear not, for you will have plenty of options.
There are three open play missions that give a bit more variety to your games: Annihilation, Hold at All Costs and Death or Glory – each an archetypal mission fit for any collection.
Narrative play brings more options still, and the rules for these missions are a bit more in-depth. There are six of these in the book: Meat Grinder, Ambush, Patrol, Blitz, Sabotage and Rescue. Each comes with not just new mission rules, but three new Stratagems for the Attacker and three for the Defender, making these games quite distinct from a traditional game. Here are a few examples from the Sabotage mission:

 

And of course, we have matched play. A lot of these missions will be familiar to players today. You still have your six Eternal War and six Maelstrom of War missions, but with a few tweaks since their last outing. One big change is we now have six deployment maps, rather than the three of today. Players of a certain vintage might recognise some of these from even older editions.
 

As well as some changes to the missions and maps, we also have changes to the objectives, particularly in Maelstrom of War. The objective deck has been re-done from the ground up while keeping the feel of that type of game, with its constantly changing and updated orders.

The biggest change in Maelstrom of War, though, might be this little addition: a new Stratagem that any army can use.

 

How often would this have come in handy in the past when fate dealt you a poor hand?
We’re back tomorrow with a look a look at some more stats for Primaris Space Marines.
___________________________________________________________________
Mh all those stratagems doesn't really seems so useful...
Love the fact that we get double deployments compared to 7th ed!


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## scscofield

So challenges and deepstrike scatter are gone according to the ork faction focus. Would post it but I'm on my phone at work ATM. 

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## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Orks​*
WAAAGH!! Are you ready to stomp and smash? Krump and loot? Well then ‘ere we go!

Orks are a tremendously fun faction to love in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. They bring a slight sense of levity to the grim darkness of endless war with their insane enthusiasm for battle and ability to thrive in a galaxy most factions are simply struggling to survive in – and all the while they remain ferociously menacing.

Orks have had their ups and downs on the tabletop over the years. They’ve often been seen as the army that was fun to play but that perhaps did not win too many games. Their most recent iteration in the current version of Warhammer 40,000 gives them quite a few tools and fun, themed army build options, but they have some weaknesses that can be difficult to overcome. Having nearly no invulnerable saves throughout their army but needing to get into melee to do the majority of their damage means they are at a massive disadvantage against armies with high durability. Units with lots of characters from different factions all providing bonuses to each other cause the most problems, and can leave Orks to be overwhelmed in close combat, where they’re meant to shine. As an Ork player, I certainly know this pain all too well.

In the new edition of Warhammer 40,000, this changes, and all I can say is praise be to Gork…or maybe Mork! One of the biggest changes for Orks is the way the new AP system impacts both their offence and defence. Units like Meganobz, who have a 2+ save (and now 3 Wounds!), will find themselves being able to soak hits from things that used to kill them in one shot and keep on killin’ thanks to the save they now get. A lascannon, for example, doesn’t bypass their armour entirely and they have decent odds of surviving, even if they fail their save.

But what about the basic grunt in the Ork army, you may be asking? What about da Boyz? You so rarely see Ork Boyz on the table these days, and an Ork Nob, often swinging last in combat with nothing but a lowly 6+ save to protect him, was not exactly a feared opponent in a challenge.

Boyz will get their save against most light weapons now, as a 6+ is not ignored by so many weapons as it once was. Also, as there are no more challenges in melee, a Nob will no longer be forced to focus all his attention on smashing just one foe. Excitingly, it won’t always be a no-brainer choice to take a power klaw, either. The Big Choppa is now quite an appealing choice thanks to a more scalable AP system, and the kombi-skorcha is positively mean!










Morale is not nearly as problematic for Orks as it was, either. The Boyz have multiple layers of morale defence built into their army. The best way to mitigate it is by having a Warboss within 3″ of a unit of Orks; he can simply knock a few of them senseless (D3, to be exact) to keep the rest of the Boyz in line and in the fight. Nobz squads also help to keep Orks from leggin’ it by rolling a D6 for each nearby Ork that tries to flee, and on the result of a 6, they do not. These are all in addition to the Mob Rule! which allows a unit of Orks to use a leadership value equal to their unit size or the leadership value of a nearby Ork unit. These are great for keeping big mobs of Boyz in the fight!

But that’s not all, folks! Orks, you will find, are all about layering bonuses onto the Boyz for force multiplication. I’ve listed a few of them so far, but there are many more. A Painboy gives nearby Ork Infantry and Biker units a 6+ save against wounds suffered. A Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field gives nearby Ork units a 5+ invulnerable save against shooting attacks. And by the way, you can take BOTH of these saves! There are many more bonuses available to you, depending on how you build your army, but my favourite is the Warboss’s WAAAGH! ability, which allows friendly Ork units within 6″ to charge even if they advanced. Combine this with the ‘Ere We Go special rule that allows Orks to re-roll failed charge rolls and holy smokes, you’ve got a fighting force to be feared!

There’s so much more to discuss but alas, I am running out of space. Ork players should be pumped, as so much of that classic melee mob Orky playstyle now pays off. Blow the dust off of your Killa Kans and Gorkanauts and get ready for a WAAAGHly good time (sorry, I couldn’t help myself!).

One last little tidbit though, before I go: the Ork Weirdboy is a fantastic choice in the new edition, and one of his powers, Da Jump, is particularly awesome. It allows an Ork Infantry unit within 6″ of the Weirdboy to be teleported to any point more than 9″ away from enemy units on the battlefield (and remember, no more scattering!). This makes for quite the nasty surprise when a mob of 30 Ork Boyz appears behind enemy lines!

Well, there you have it, folks. Be sure to look up from our Warhammer Fest coverage on Saturday to read about the followers of the Four-armed Emperor.


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## Brother Lucian

I think everyone is expecting to see a Primork Ghazkull to give the Orks even more momentum when the narrative goes to Warzone: Armageddon.


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## Khorne's Fist

Brother Lucian said:


> I think everyone is expecting to see a Primork Ghazkull to give the Orks even more momentum when the narrative goes to Warzone: Armageddon.


If they keep with the whole triumvirate theme, I wonder what two characters they'd use to fill the box.


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## scscofield

The named weirdboy and some other warboss

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## Old Man78

Ghazkull an extra "special" weird boy and some extra creative mek boss


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## Roganzar

If Ghazkull came the size of Rowboat Girlyman that would be good. He should be a bit bigger, actually.


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## Brother Lucian

Dont forget the Painboy Dok Grotsnik, one of the Ghazkulls oldest followers. Whom still tends to his wounds.

The Beast was much bigger than Vulkan. Fully grown elite nobz looked like children next to the Beast.


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## Entarion

Thing is that on 3rd June I will turn 28 and on 21st June it will be my 8th year in the hobby. So I guess 8 is my number this year 

Starter set content for that price is incredible. Separate parts will be really cheap. But I was never fan of snap fit models. So I will wait for regular multi-part boxes. 
I hope those boxes will be available during pre-order. And I am wishing for Limited edition rulebook like was munitorum case for 7th edition. AoS limited rulebook was very weak.


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## neferhet

Also, nobz with 3 wounds seems tough! seems like terminator-ish units get 1 wound extra...
still, i'm quite underwelmed by the ork faction focus. the details revealed seems to indicate that orks will fare relatively better notthanks to internal improvements, but thanks to the general changes in the rules...so, not good. i hope we will see something better when the rules come out. for now, Dark eldar and orks doesnt even compare to the tau faction focus, or even the plague marines. at worst the situation is unchanged. at best is roughly the same, but orks will get a chance at winning thanks to the new rules, wich is good.


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## Khorne's Fist

New Warhammer 40,000: Primaris Space Marines

Let’s talk Primaris Space Marines.

By now, unless you’ve been hiding under a rock on the far side on Luna, you’ve probably seen the awesome contents of the upcoming Dark Imperium box.

We’ve already seen the stats for the Intercessors, but they are just one of the new units. Today we take a look at a couple more.

Let’s start with the leader, the Captain in Gravis armour.

Space Marine Captains should be amongst the most feared warriors in the galaxy, but a lot of the time today, they are looked down on compared to other characters that can bring more utility to an army.

Not anymore!



Every Space Marines army is going to want one of these guys at its head. Like all the Space Marines’ greatest commanders, he’s great at combat in all forms, hitting up close and at range on a 2+. That Gravis armour brings some benefits too. While lacking some of the impenetrable defence against small arms fire that Terminator armour brings, it makes up for that with an increased Toughness, meaning even heavy weaponry will struggle to bring him down easily. He has 6 Wounds, which is pretty solid too, though Characters generally have more Wounds in the new Warhammer 40,000 – even a lascannon will be lucky to kill him in a single shot.

Maybe the main reason you bring this guy though is for the re-roll to hit he provides to those nearby. This ability is awesome on things like Tactical and Intercessor Squads, even better on Devastator Squads, and on plasma-toting Hellblasters? Well, we’ll just let you work that one out….

Next up, the Inceptor Squad, These guys are the Primaris Space Marines’ answer to a lot of things: they combine the speed of Assault Squads, the durability of units like Bikes and the ability to drop in from space mid-battle, AND they pack a fair combat punch as they make a charge. Oh, and those guns are basically hand held heavy bolters (albeit, with a much reduced range). We expect to see these guys in a lot of Space Marines armies very soon.



That’s just two of the new units in the Dark Imperium box.


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## neferhet

Dunno why Khorne fist, but your images are cut. here the full version
interesting to note that the unit size here is 3 - a fixed 3 models.
alos, i'd love to know what ATSKNF is doing in 8th... so far tyranids and plague marines had a way to totally ignore Morale test. Guard and orks have a way to mitigate strongly. So much for "everyone will suffer from morale in this new edition"


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## Khorne's Fist

They've amended the post. It originally only gave the stat lines I have.


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## Brother Lucian

Interesting, so Gravis armor is not the new terminator armor as previously thought. But an entirely different version of Mark 10. Kinda suprised they didnt put it as Mark 9 as specialist armors has gotten their own marks like Mark 3 Iron Armor. 

Having 2 versions of Mark 10 is entirely new.


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## ntaw

neferhet said:


> Dunno why


WC like to edit their articles after release. Happens every other post it seems.


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## neferhet

yeah gravis armor is just a +1 toughness power armour. i feel the inceptors are encroaching in biker squad territory...t5, fast, relaible anti infantry... as all the numarines are doing with normal marines anyway...


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## Brother Lucian

Makes me wonder if there will be other variants of Mark 10 armor


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## Roganzar

neferhet said:


> yeah gravis armor is just a +1 toughness power armour. i feel the inceptors are encroaching in biker squad territory...t5, fast, relaible anti infantry... as all the numarines are doing with normal marines anyway...


I don't know it looks more like a different way to do fast attack. I don't see White Scars being to hot on the Interceptors, since there's no big throbbing machines between their legs. 
So Gravis Armor is basically another version of Artificer armor, *cough* Called it *cough*, modeled on Guilliman's new armor.


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## Old Man78

Gravis armour is baby centurion armour😜


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## Roganzar

Old Man78 said:


> Gravis armour is baby centurion armour😜


But not as cuddly as Centurion armor.


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## Khorne's Fist

Shooting rules have been spotted.


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## Shandathe

*eyes Pistol entry*

"All of its other weapons" if not firing the pistol. Right. I'm pretty sure I've spotted our first future FAQ/Errata entry.

Also really wondering how grenades and pistols are used in CC now...


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## neferhet

Shandathe said:


> *eyes Pistol entry*
> 
> "All of its other weapons" if not firing the pistol. Right. I'm pretty sure I've spotted our first future FAQ/Errata entry.
> 
> Also really wondering how grenades and pistols are used in CC now...


yeah..worded this way if i have a pistol and a lascannon in melee i can shoot the lascannon just 'cause i have my trusty boltpistol in my lap :grin2:

grenades in melee is still a mistery, but pistols is right there. no longer +1 attac for having it, you actually get to SHOOT with it! plasma pistols here i come!

the rest seems pretty well known. cool that the defender decides where to allocate hits!
Also note that if you advanced (run) you can still fire with assault weapons with -1 to hit! This is quite good! a nice addition to right in the face, mid range armies (like chaos!)


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## neferhet

I bring you...DETACHMENTS!!
I like those. I can do a full elite or fast attack army! the allied detachment is still there (auxiliar) but will cost you command points for the trouble! Nicely done!


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## arthur.bobany

Where does it say I can't take multiple detachments from multiple factions? The auxiliary is not the equivalent for the allied, it's more of a free pick detachment

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## neferhet

arthur.bobany said:


> Where does it say I can't take multiple detachments from multiple factions? The auxiliary is not the equivalent for the allied, it's more of a free pick detachment
> 
> Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


well said. if comes out that you can take only same faction in an army, then Taudar and such are dead...i doubt this will be the case tough. we still miss 2 detachment (gw said it was 14) and rules for army composition


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## Khorne's Fist

Rules drop.


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## Khorne's Fist

More.


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## Shandathe

neferhet said:


> grenades in melee is still a mistery, but pistols is right there. no longer +1 attac for having it, you actually get to SHOOT with it! plasma pistols here i come!


Yes, but while that's a fantastic boon for my Seraphim, that's the SHOOTING phase, not the FIGHT one!


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## Battman

Hmmm could be quite an iteresting change. This edition is certainly sounding better and better.

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## scscofield

*Warhammer Fest Live Blog*










[1:10pm] When Duncan isn’t doing painting seminars today, he’s walking around being an all around nice guy and talking to all the attendees.
[1:00 pm] The first Forge World seminar has got out, and there are loads of great images coming out of there.
 Khornate Dragon with Lord  Index Books  Datasheets for all of Forge World’s Warhammer 40,000 T’au Empire, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Necrons and Tyranids models.  Datasheets for all of Forge World’s Warhammer 40,000 Astra Militarum range, including Death Korps of Krieg and Elysian models, and Renegade Imperial Guard forces as well as the immense war machines of the Titan Legions and Knight Houses. 
 Datasheets for all of Forge World’s Warhammer 40,000 Chaos Space Marines and Daemon models, as well as Chaos Titans.  Datasheets for all of Forge World’s Warhammer 40,000 Space Marines, Forces of the Inquisition and Sisters of Battle models.  Imperial Armour – Fires of Cyraxus  Imperial Armour – Fires of Cyraxus 
 Imperial Armour – Fires of Cyraxus  Imperial Armour – Fires of Cyraxus  Imperial Armour – Fires of Cyraxus  Imperial Armour – Fires of Cyraxus 
 Imperial Armour – Fires of Cyraxus  Imperial Armour – Fires of Cyraxus  Imperial Armour – Fires of Cyraxus  Imperial Armour – Fires of Cyraxus 
 Thunderhawk Gunship  Gabriel Angelos, Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens  Tau Tigershark AX-1-0  Tau Tigershark AX-1-0 
   Thousand Sons Legion Sekhmet Terminators  Thousand Sons Legion Sekhmet Terminators 
 Thousand Sons Legion Sekhmet Terminators  Amon  Thousand Sons Legion Praetor  Legion Sicaran Arcus Strike Tank 
 Sisters of Silence Kharon Pattern Acquisitor  Sisters of Silence Kharon Pattern Acquisitor  Sisters of Silence Kharon Pattern Acquisitor  Sisters of Silence Prosecutor Cadre Upgrade Set 
 Legio Custodes Caladius Grav-tank Annihilator  Legio Custodes Telemon Heavy Dreadnought  Legio Custodes Telemon Heavy Dreadnought  Legio Custodes Aquilon Terminator with Adrathic Destructor 
 Legio Custodes Aquilon Terminators with Lastrum Storm Bolters  Legio Custodes Aquilon Terminators with Infernus Firepikes  Legio Custodes Orion Gunship  Angelus 
 Angelus  Angelus  Angelus  Lord Constantin Valdor Captain-General of the Legio Custodes 

Regarding Horus Heresy Book Eight: Angelus, they had this to say about its contents:


The Blood Angels Legion
The Dark Angels Legion
Daemons
The Dark Mechanicum
The Night Lords Legion
Several narratives detailing the campaigns and battles of the Blood Angels and the Dark Angels through the early 
Horus Heresy and the Age of Darkness. 
Signus Prime 
The Thramas Crusade
The Persecution of Sarum
The Siege of Baal 
The Passage of the Angel of Death

Background and history for the Dark Angels and Blood Angels
The Rise of the Dark Mechanicum
Daemons and Diabolism in the Horus Heresy!
New rules for the: 
Blood Angels and Dark Angels
Night Lords
Dark Mechanicum
Daemon units 

 Whew! That’s a lot to take in!
[11:45 am] Folk are getting their first chance to play the new edition now.








We’ve already shown a few of these, earlier in the week, but here are the datasheets for all the models on the demo pods:
    
    

And in the demo pod room, they are also lining up to get their photos taken with the Space Marine weapons in front of the green screen. We’re going to replace the green screen with a bit of war zone from the 41st Millennium, and I’m sure we’ll have some of those up here later on.
Another very popular spot this morning is Warhammer TV’s Duncan doing a painting tutorial on one of the new Death Guard models from the Dark Imperium box.
  

[11:10 am] Up in the Forge World area, there is an awesome Titan dock display, showing the Adeptus Mechanicus getting the massive war machine ready for battle.
  
  

[10:50 am] Just had a quick look at the exhibit hall. I was almost immediately drawn in by a game called Doomwheel – it was the giant red button that caught my eye… Had lots of fun driving a Doomwheel over Clanrats and Assassins and collecting warpstone. Definitely, one to check out when it’s released this summer from Katsu Entertainment.
 Doomwheel  Dawn of War III 
 Ork from Dawn of War III  Giant Terminator Statue 

There was also a huge scale Terminator statue and Relic are have joined us, bringing Dawn of War III for everyone to play, and a big ol’ Ork statue. Next I’m off to see what’s going on in the seminars.
[10:25 am] Well, the doors are open and everyone is making their way to the various sections of the venue. I stopped by the demo pod area on the ground floor to see what they’re up to and found the team waiting to run intro games of the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. If you’re with us over the weekend, be sure to stop by and play a game.
  
  

[9:45 am] – Good morning and Happy Warhammer Fest day everyone! Sarah here. We’ve arrived at the Ricoh Arena in Coventry, and the doors are about to open to the public. There is so much going on, and we’re so excited to see all of you who are coming along.
Of course, you can’t all be here, so I’ll be running this live blog all weekend to keep you up to date with everything coming out of the seminars, tournaments, demo pods, etc, so stay tuned.
To get things started, here is a bit from the programme:


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## scscofield

So it looks like plasma guns have 2 fire modes now, one of them slightly less powerful but without a 'gets hot' mechanic.


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## neferhet

well..wow! looks like this years warhammer fest is exceptional!
lots of things coming through... i'm not still convinced i like the new "dataslate" for the units.
Dual firing mode for plasma waepons is godsend.


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## Khorne's Fist

Ed 109


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## Khorne's Fist




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## neferhet

Khorne's Fist said:


> Ed 109
> 
> https://youtu.be/jGyR5n_3kIg


bigger, faster, stronger! buy the new "true scale" (oversize) dreadnought today! Come to the Guillimarines side: we have truescale cookies.


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## Brother Lucian

Hrm, the Redemptor Dreadnought looks like a cleaner version of the current Castraferrum Dreadnoughts. Too clean. The Leviathan Dreadnought is a far better looking mark of Dreadnought imho.


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## Khorne's Fist

Brother Lucian said:


> Hrm, the Redemptor Dreadnought looks like a cleaner version of the current Castraferrum Dreadnoughts. Too clean. The Leviathan Dreadnought is a far better looking mark of Dreadnought imho.


It does, but it's about half again the size.


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## Roganzar

Khorne's Fist said:


> https://youtu.be/E415aFoSDcY


Ah one step closer to my fielding an army of Mortarion, Magnus, Fulgrim and Angron demon primarchs.
Going to only fly in a friendly game but still the idea has yet to stop amusing me.


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## scscofield

neferhet said:


> bigger, faster, stronger! buy the new "true scale" (oversize) dreadnought today! Come to the Guillimarines side: we have truescale cookies.


A company that sells plastic toys wants to sell more plastic toys.......... Shocking......

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## neferhet

scscofield said:


> A company that sells plastic toys wants to sell more plastic toys.......... Shocking......
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


next time i'll use a laughing face so you know i'm not outraged. even better from now on i'll only say: "Wow, this is awesome!".


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## scscofield

Just seeing lots of complaints about new models which I find silly and always have

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## Khorne's Fist

neferhet said:


> from now on i'll only say: "Wow, this is awesome!".


That would be a pleasant change.


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## Roganzar

Three weeks till I can play the new edition is like an itch, a really bad one, I can't scratch.


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## neferhet

Khorne's Fist said:


> That would be a pleasant change.


Wow this is awesome!


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## Lord of the Night

Prices for the 8th edition launch are confirmed at last!


LotN


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## neferhet

ok, i'll ask it....what the hell is the combat gauge??!?
EDIT: i'm sure it's awesome!


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## Entarion

Lord of the Night said:


> Prices for the 8th edition launch are confirmed at last!
> 
> 
> LotN


Hmm, do you think there will be separate boxes for Primaris and dreadnought up for pre-order on 3rd June? Or pre-orders for regular boxes will come later ? I am not really interested in starter set models but I don't want to wait another weeks for regular release.


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## Shandathe

neferhet said:


> ok, i'll ask it....what the hell is the combat gauge??!?


That'd be this thing:


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## Brother Lucian

Shandathe said:


> That'd be this thing:


I can only imagine its some kind of marker track holder.


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## Roganzar

Entarion said:


> Lord of the Night said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prices for the 8th edition launch are confirmed at last!
> 
> 
> LotN
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, do you think there will be separate boxes for Primaris and dreadnought up for pre-order on 3rd June? Or pre-orders for regular boxes will come later ? I am not really interested in starter set models but I don't want to wait another weeks for regular release.
Click to expand...

I would guess after the big release. Though not to long after, may be up for pre-order the week after 8th's big week. Putting those out 2 weeks after. Knowing GW they've got the boxes sitting on deck to release.


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## Mdauben

Brother Lucian said:


> I can only imagine its some kind of marker track holder.


They have a similar looking thing for AoS that's used as a measuring device. Each edge of the AoS device is a significant measurement in the rules. 

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## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Genestealer Cults​*
What was that!? Something moving in the shadows… Phew, it’s only Reece from the SoCal Open, back to tell us about the insidious Genestealer Cults in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000, available to pre-order on June 3rd:

From the shadows, the Genestealer Cults come to sow dissent and distrust. They undermine the foundations of the Imperium from within to prepare the way for the Great Devourer.

Genestealer Cults are both a new and old faction. They’ve got their roots way back in the mists of Warhammer 40,000 history but have recently made their triumphant return to the game. Genestealer Cults were largely defined in their play style through their very cool and characterful Cult Ambush special rule. That is still true in the new Warhammer 40,000 as well. Cult Ambush allows you to place Genestealer Cults units into reserves and then enter the game through a variety of means determined by a D6 chart. These range in effect from coming on to a table edge to being able to appear anywhere on the table more than 9” away from any enemy units but being able to move as well, allowing you to get extremely close to enemy units to shoot and then charge them as well. For units like Genestealers or Aberrants armed with power picks and rending claws, this can be punishing!



Speaking of Genestealers, if you thought they were deadly in the Tyranid army, they are even more flexible with Genestealer Cults due to the Cult Ambush rule as stated above. Combined with the Patriarch, they hit just as hard as the Broodlord and Genestealers do with Tyranids, but with Genestealer Cults, the Patriarch also allows nearby units to ignore morale, and he benefits from the Unquestioning Loyalty special rule which all Genestealer Cults Characters posses. This allows them to avoid taking a wound on a 4+ as a minion sacrifices its life and jumps in front of the attack. This makes these Characters extremely durable and even helps them survive things like Sniper fire.

Another nasty trick the Genestealer Cults have is their Mass Hypnosis psychic power, which prevents an enemy unit from firing Overwatch, makes them strike last in combat (even if they charged) AND gives them -1 to hit. Ouch! That leaves an enemy unit in a very compromised position as the minions of the Four-armed Emperor emerge from ambush and then run them through in melee.

One of my favourite aspects of the Genestealer Cults, though, is their ability to form their army using both their own faction, Tyranids and Astra Militarum, too. Huzzah! Due to the way that allies worked in the previous edition, making an army that mixed Genestealer Cult units and Astra Militarum wasn’t always straightforward. These are, of course, not “real” Astra Militarum, but devoted followers of the Cult who have turned from the Emperor’s light and betrayed their fellow man. The way it works in the new Warhammer 40,000 is really fun. You can take one Astra Militarum Detachment for each Genestealer Cults Detachment in your Battle-forged army. They each need to be entirely comprised of units with their respective keyword, but this allows incredible amounts of diversity in your army that is also quite characterful.

But you won’t always need to sneak into the Imperial motor pool to hijack their vehicles; the Genestealer Cults have access to some fantastic mechanised war machines of their own. The Goliath Rockgrinder is one of my favourites.

For armament, I prefer the Clearance Incinerator, as it automatically hits its target D6 times up to 12” out and, of course, you have to take the Cache of Demolition Charges! While you can only fire this weapon if a unit is embarked upon it (as they need to chuck them out!) and it is short ranged at 6”, boy does it pack a punch! D6 shots, Strength 8, AP -3 and D3 damage per hit. That’s no joke. If anything survives that, you can ram them with the Drilldozer in melee for a possible 6+D3 Strength 8 attacks with an AP of -2 and D3 damage per hit.

While there is loads more to cover, we are out of time for today. Genestealer Cults have a unique playstyle in the new Warhammer 40,000 that will be both fun for the general commanding the army and tactically challenging for the player on the other side of the table.


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## Khorne's Fist

I just saw this bigger pic of the one used on the warhammer fest booklet. I think it's the best idea we've got yet of what the Mortarion mini is going to look like. It's also a clash I'm really looking forward to reading about.


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## darkreever

I like how unlike Magnus, Mortarion has clearly not been quite as changed by his ascension.


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## Roganzar

darkreever said:


> I like how unlike Magnus, Mortarion has clearly not been quite as changed by his ascension.


I don't know. He didn't have wings in the Heresy. He's probably almost as big as Magnus now and who knows what that is oozing out of him. uke:


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## DaisyDuke

Ooo 
A reason to paint my death 💀 guard. Hopefully not too long for release.


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## koosbeer

DaisyDuke said:


> Ooo
> A reason to paint my death 💀 guard. Hopefully not too long for release.


No please let there be a long gap between releases. My wallet simply cant take it!


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## Khorne's Fist

New Warhammer 40,000: The Ultima Founding


Another piece of new lore from the new edition today, as we look at the Ultima Founding. 

In the wake of the Gathering Storm, the scattered Space Marine Chapters of the galaxy have been bled dry. Facing gigantic Warp storms that swallow whole systems, constant attack by the forces of Chaos, rampaging xenos and more, the Adeptus Astartes are stretched thinner than ever. Many Chapter Planets are now actively under siege, some Chapters are confirmed as destroyed* or lost, and even those faring relatively well have suffered high casualties and are in desperate need of reinforcement.

Enter Roboute Guilliman and his Primaris Space Marines. The newly reinstated Lord Commander of the Imperium has decreed that those Chapters most devastated by the ongoing wars should be amongst the first to be reinforced with this new breed of warrior. Starting with the Ultramarines, but also deploying these new Space Marines to every other Chapter in need, Guilliman aims to reinforce the Imperium’s scattered defenders across the galaxy.

It is not just as reinforcements to existing Chapters though. Guilliman has also ordered the creation of a host of new Chapters, the Ultima Founding, composed entirely of Primaris Space Marines. The warriors of these new Chapters were created entirely using the new processes discovered by Belisarius Cawl and established with all the necessary weapons, armour and equipment that they’ll need to conduct their defence of the Imperium.

These Chapter’s still trace their genetic lineage back to the gene-seed of the First Founding, and scions of all nine loyalists Legions emerged from the vaults beneath the red planet. They benefit from three additional organs and larger size, but it still remains to be seen if Cawl was able to successfully stabilise any of the known genetic deviations or impart any additional resistance to the effects of Chaos.

Many of these new Chapters have been assigned home worlds on the edge of the Great Rift, the Imperium’s new frontline in the war against Chaos, though some have inherited the empty Fortress Monasteries of Chapters that had been lost to the attrition of constant war. Many of these worlds face a continuous battle against the Daemons of the Warp, as well as an unpredictable mix of xenos raiders, pirates and invaders.

If you are looking for an excuse to embark on a Space Marine army come the new edition, this is it.

Here’s a page from the upcoming Warhammer 40,000 book, showing off not only how those new Primaris Space Marines look in the colours of some familiar Chapters, but also showing off few whole new ones:



Many new Chapters have been created, so if you wanted to, this could be an opportunity to create one of your own! If the thought of creating your very own heraldry and backstory appeals, we’ve created this downloadable image of a blank suit of Mk X Tacticus Armour for you to try some colour schemes on.

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely....uploads/2017/05/SpaceMarineHeraldryCardA5.pdf


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## Mdauben

Has there been any pictures or other info on these new Ultima Founding Chapters? If I do decide to buy into these new Space Marines that's probably the way I'd go. Start all new, rather than shoe horning them into my existing Raven Guard army. 

Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk


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## neferhet

Wow, that's awesome!
Here's something else...Leaked stuff for chaos!


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## neferhet

Also this!


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## neferhet

I'm shure you already have seen this stuff. it appalls me how badly they nerfed the obliterators...no more powerfist, RANDOM weapons at 24"... Move 4"... fuck them with an oil-drill, i guess?

Heldrakes move 30"...thats...enormous...and can still fail a charge rolling a 2 :grin2:
Also it is to be noted that, per basic rules leaked, everyone can assault a flying unit.
5th edition "flyiers" here we go again! I can't wait until some claw nob assault my razorwing jetfighter...i hope something clarifies this. (because it's AWESOME!)
still random psypower generation...guess with the harsher perils and still random powers i'll be keeping my sorcerors at home... certainly will not bring a lot of them.
And..defiler at 215 pts BEFORE wargear...dear lord i hope the stat line is something good...


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## darkreever

neferhet said:


> And..defiler at 215 pts BEFORE wargear...dear lord i hope the stat line is something good...


216 actually, and considering its only about 40 points less than the land raider my guess on stats will probably be 4 fewer wounds, a +3 save, T8, and probably S8-10.

Also considering the defile has always come stock with a heavy flamer, reaper autocannon, and battlecannon as stock with things like a power scourge or additional claws as options, you probably won't need to add anything else and make it cost more.


As for obliterators, there primary role has always been shooting so them losing powerfists isn't a huge deal. I imagine mutilators will be getting a very similar, if not outright same, fleshmetal weapons rule for their close combat attacks since thats where they want to be. And at minimum, a lone oblit is tossing out a pair of S7, -1 save, 1 damage shots per turn; thats the minimum, its probably going to be 2 damage on average.


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## scscofield

I actually like the oblit changes it makes them much more solid and consistent. Honestly looking over the rules for all those leaks I am liking what I see. CSM is getting stronger overall with those changes.

EDIT: That and all the rules for everything have not been released. The chicken little bullshit is silly until we have everything to look at. This is also not a request for passive aggressive anal leakage.


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## neferhet

darkreever said:


> 216 actually, and considering its only about 40 points less than the land raider my guess on stats will probably be 4 fewer wounds, a +3 save, T8, and probably S8-10.
> 
> 
> 
> Also considering the defile has always come stock with a heavy flamer, reaper autocannon, and battlecannon as stock with things like a power scourge or additional claws as options, you probably won't need to add anything else and make it cost more.
> 
> Niet. as previously seen on the primaris stuff, you pay the base model, then add point for its listed weapons. so, if a defiler is 200ish points listed, thats naked. This is, i repeat, as far as it has been leaked. That was true for the hallblaster stuff and the gravis captain. Also, more like T 7 like all the other dreadnought and not-AV14 stuff.
> 
> As for obliterators, there primary role has always been shooting so them losing powerfists isn't a huge deal. I imagine mutilators will be getting a very similar, if not outright same, fleshmetal weapons rule for their close combat attacks since thats where they want to be. And at minimum, a lone oblit is tossing out a pair of S7, -1 save, 1 damage shots per turn; thats the minimum, its probably going to be 2 damage on average.


... probably you never played chaos? oblits were used (when not spammed, i mean) as an advancing fire support. First turn lascannon, then plasmacannon, then short range weaponry (they had plenty), then -unbelievable- assault to crush key units with powerfists. now you MUST deepstrike them. 4" move and 24" range is not going to help. MAYBE if they had multimelta... but no. Best that you got is a nerfed lascannon at half range. Worst that you got is a shitty assault cannon with 2 attacks. No longer a tool for any situation, more like a swingy unreliable nerfed missile launcher/lascannon at half range. Statistically, you are looking at a worst autocannon. 
And again, why even make it assault weapons if they suck so hard in melee now? In any case...thats awesome!


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## neferhet

scscofield said:


> This is also not a request for passive aggressive anal leakage.


wat :shok:


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## scscofield

To be blunt, grow the fuck up and stop menstruating all over the place until all the rules are out.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Brother Lucian

Could be said less crudely, but yeah, dont take things out of context as theres many systemic changes under the hood. Like stats no longer capped at 10 for example. It would be utterly meaningless to try to fit in bits and pieces of 8th edition changes into a 7th context without knowing all the whats and buts.


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## Khorne's Fist

This lad is big.


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## scscofield

Heh, it's like a Rhino became a transformer

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## neferhet

scscofield said:


> To be blunt, grow the fuck up and stop menstruating all over the place until all the rules are out.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


yeah you know what. fuck it. have a nice day.


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## Old Man78

I'm a dreadnought fan boy, and while he ain't pretty, I'm sure I'll love him all the same


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## scscofield

Ok, let me lay this out to everyone.

8th is a complete revamp of the whole system, not bits of it, not tuning of some stuff, _*EVERY FUCKING THING.*_

Stop complaining about things based off your experience of the old systems.

If you have decided you hate 8th and refuse to play it off based off the incomplete knowledge so be it. Feel free to go off and do whatever as long as it isn't bitching and moaning about 8th here.

If you have decided you are going to play 8th, then refrain from moaning and bitching about the tidbits released until the whole system is out. After 51 pages of it, it has gotten old. 

Many of us are happy about the changes, many are upset. Until the whole system is released though tone down the whimpers. After it is released and we can all dig into the rules feel free to be buttsore and bitch and moan about shit. I am willing to bet that even us happy with the changes will have something we hate.


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## Roganzar

Khorne's Fist said:


> This lad is big.


I like this guy, who I shall call the "fat guy" dreadnaught. Cuz it looks like it has a big ol' belly, like yours truly. The arm joints in particular look to be a great improvement in their design. 
Also, it looks like it's patting the marine on the head in the first picture. Going "There there, you'll be truscale one day."


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## Mdauben

Roganzar said:


> I like this guy, who I shall call the "fat guy" dreadnaught.


He's not fat! He's just... big boned.  



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## darkreever

neferhet said:


> probably you never played chaos?


Well seeing as you commented on my most recent chaos marine list I guess its safe to assume your not that stupid; so your attempting to troll then?



neferhet said:


> oblits were used (when not spammed, i mean) as an advancing fire support. First turn lascannon, then plasmacannon, then short range weaponry (they had plenty), then -unbelievavle- assault to crush key units with powerfists.


So kinda like how they've been set up now from what the leak shows? 24 inch range, coupled with a 5-10 inch movement (because fleshmetal weapons are assault weapons and you can advance and shoot with assault weapons) means there shouldn't be many targets that they cannot hit on turn 1.

Then add in the fact that at their weakest, fleshmetal weapons are going to be S7, wounding vehicles, monsters, and super heavies on 4's or 5's. Their guns are now potentially better at damaging something like a land raider than before (at worst they wound on 5's, which is what they need to damage a land raider right now, and at best they wound on 3's.)

And if your still so inclined, the strategy you see oblits being used in your meta still applies. With a minimum effective range of 29 inches, they can still start by shooting armour and tough targets and move onto infantry before assaulting. Yes they don't have powerfists, but each oblit is still hitting on 3's, is S5, and has 3 attacks.




neferhet said:


> now you MUST deepstrike them.


Nope, 29-34 inch shooting range may be about a foot less than the range on a lascannon but couple that range with 6-12 inch deployment and that reduction is significantly mitigated.



neferhet said:


> Best you got is a nerfed lascannon at half range. Worst that you got is a shitty assault cannon with 2 attacks.


And heres where it gets fun. Sure, fleshmetal weapons are only 2 shots per turn per model, but your getting 3 models in the squad. Take a look at those leaks again, the unit entry for the oblits clearly states its a unit of 3, and the image with the points clearly states its a unit of 3 for fewer points per model than before (so theres really no reason to run solo ones.)

So that 'shitty' assault cannon, which is S7 with a -1 save by the way, is able to dish out 6 wounds per turn. (Or 18 wounds if they are damage 3.)



neferhet said:


> Statistically, you are looking at a worst autocannon.


Are we talking the 7th edition autocannon vs this 8th edition weapon? Because thats not the most useful comparison.

Keep in mind, statistically, each 8th edition oblit will be pumping out a pair of S8, -2 save, 2 damage shots with a 29 inch minimum range per turn. Thats 12 damage per unit, meaning you can potentially wipe out a squad of marines or cripple a squad of primaris marines or terminators.



neferhet said:


> And again, why even make it assault weapons if they suck so hard in melee now?


Because your choosing to ignore the leak where it states that units with assault weapons can advance and shoot in the same turn? That 4 inch move and 24 inch range is now 5-10 inch move with 24 inch range.


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## scscofield




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## scscofield

A few other leaks I am translating, from a store owner who is leaking info on an Italian forum:
*Adeptus Mechanicus:* 


Forge Worlds keywords, Cawl has Mars keyword and buffs Mars FW units
Adeptus Mechanicus keyword is shared, Cult Mechanicus kw and Skitarii kw are present to differentiate. Bonuses target AM keyword
Canticles are chosen at the start of each Battle Round and last that much, cannot be chosen twice. Among the effects they allow for rerolling 1s to same FW kw units within 6"
 *Astra Militarum:* 


Regiment keywords
Orders are given automatically to same Regiment keyword unit within 6"
 *Blood Angels:*


Black Rage gives +1A on the charge and ignores a wound on a roll of a 6.
Death Company: 2A each, models can take different loadouts
Lemartes allows rerolling charge distance and to hit rolls in melee to DC units within 6"
Sanguinary Guard rerolls to hit rolls if there is a BA general within 6"
Death Mask gives -1 Discipline to enemies within 3"
Encarmine Sword Ap-3 DmgD3, Axe S+1 Ap-2 DmgD3
Sanguinor has WS2+ W4 S4 T4 A5, can charge even if he used Fall Back, gives +1A to every BA within 6"
Dante has WS2+ W6 S4 T4 A5 Save 2+, allows BA units within 6" to reroll to hits. Axe is S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3, rerolls to wound if it is a Character
 *Eldars:* 


Scatter lasers are 36" Heavy 4 Ap0
Warp Spiders M7" Save 3+, can move 4d6 and get Fly but cannot Advance nor Charge. Flickerjump goves -1BS to enemy but you roll 2D6 and on a 2 you lose a Warp Spider. Death Spinner is 18" Rapid Fire S6 Ap-4. With Exarch you reroll failed Morale tests.
Wraithknight W24 S8 R8 Save 3+. Wraithcannon is Assault 2 S10 Ap-4 DmgD6, Ghostglaive is Sx2 Ap-4 Dmg6 straigth (no D6 roll). Hits on a 3+ and gets worse losing wounds
D-Scythes are 8" AssaultD3 S10 Ap-4
Banshees M8" A2 Save 4+. Always attack first with the mask, add 3" to Advance and Charge rolls, Exarch gives a -1 penalty to hit in melee to enemy models. Executioner Blade is WS-1 S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3
 *Inquisition, Grey Knights and Sisters:* 


Inquisitors can enter any Imperial vehicle and give bubble buffs to Imperium keyword units, depending on the Ordo chosen
Grey Knights know a nerfed verison of Smite, 12" 1 mortal wound (3 if Daemon keyword)
Sisters are amongst the Imperial Agents, the Saint gives them some buffs and they have shared rules with the adeptus ministrorum (Act of Faith, Shield of Faith and Zealot)
 *Necrons:* 


Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
Living metal allows for automatically regaining lost wounds
Basic Gauss is 24" Rapid Fire *Ap-2*, Gauss Cannon is Ap-3 DmgD3
Discipline 10
Warriors cost unchanged form 7th
Monolith M6" W20 S8 T8 Save3+, Gauss Flux Arc Heavy 3 S5 Ap-2, Whip Heavy 6 S8 Ap-2 DmgD6. When it gets charged, roll on a D6 and if 4+ (or worse, depending on wounds lost) charging unit gets D6 mortal wounds.
 *Orks:*


Ork Battlewagon M12" W16 T7 Save 4+, can get T8 but loses Open-topped. Deff Rolla hits on a 2+, 6 attacks S8 Ap-2
 *Space Marines:*


Grav is S5 Ap-3 and does DmgD3 if Save is 3+ or better
Nartecium no longer provides FnP but heals a model for D3 wounds
Storm Shields still provide 3+ Invuln save
ATSKNF rerolls failed Morale tests
 *Space Wolves:*


Thunderwolves Cavalry M10" W3 S4 T5 Save 3+, same equip as before and they cost nine melta bombs without equipments
Lord on Wolf has W7
Frost weapons add a mortal wound on a 6 (not clear on what dice roll)
Runic Armours give 5+ Invuln Save (4+ if Terminator).
 *Tau:* (from ATT also)


Markerlights are cumulative per phase and provide different bonuses, depending on how many hit the unit. Basic is reroll 1s, then you have remove cover bonus, increase BS, use Seeker/Destroyer Missiles (normally snapshooting)
Railguns have a chance to do Mortal Wounds on a to-wound roll of 6
Activating Nova Reactor may result in Mortal Wound
Firesight Marksmen are Independent Characters
Pulse rifles are AP0. Pulse Blasters AP-1 at 10" and AP-2 at 5", Assault 2.
Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits give a -1 penalty to BS if shot at from more than 12", can deploy outside of deployment zone at 12"
Broadside Railgun is Heavy 2 S8 Ap-4 DmgD6, HYMP is Heavy 4 S7 Ap-1 DmgD3
Pathfinders and Kroots are faster than Fire Warriors
Crisis Suits minimum squad size is 3
 *Tyranids:*


Termagaunts cost a bit less than a melta bomb
Tervigon M8" W14 S7 T8 Save3+, can either create a 10 fleshborer (uncertain with translation) Termagaunt unit (you need to keep the points for them) OR re-add fleshborer Termagaunt models to an existing unit


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## scscofield




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## scscofield

First look at flyer rules. -1 to hit in the shooting phase, can only be charged and attacked by flying models.

Edit: Looking at it harder, it is not flying models that charge/assault it is models with FLY. That includes jump pack style units.......


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## scscofield

So transports are going up in cost

A DP is now a bit over 3 times it's prior cost
Rhino is double it's cost
Razorback is 5 points cheaper which is kinda odd. I guess capacity has a cost now.

These are before wargear points


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## scscofield

Some of this will be repeated info:

Blood Angels Dreadnought weapons
Blood Claws 
Sx2 Ap-3 d6 damage
Blood Fist 
Sx2 AP-3 3 damage reroll to hit if you have 2. 
Frag Cannon
8" assault 2d6 S6 Ap-1 damage 1 hit 
automatically.

Carnifex
M7" WS4+ S6 T7 W8 A4 3+
It doesn't degrade
if charge does mortal wound on a 4+
Crushing claws are Sx2 AP-3 damage 3
Scything Talons S: User AP-3 damage 3
Bonemace S8 Ap-1 d3 damage.
If with 2 weapons +1 attacks
2 Scything talons reroll 1 to hit.

Noise Marines
If killed in melee don't remove them, and at the 
end of the phase they can attack with melee or 
shooting weapons (even if engaged) before 
removing them. 
Blastmaster 48" Heavyd3 S8 Ap-2 damage d3 
ignore cover
Or Assault d6 S4 Ap-1 damage 1
Doomsiren assault d3 S5 Ap-2 damage 1 ignore 
cover
Other sonic weapon Assault3 24" S4 ignore 
cover.

Striking Scorpions
Move 7"
Can deploy everywhere more than 9" from the 
enemy. 
+1 to hit against unit in cover
mandiblaster does mortal wound on 6
Exarch gives unit extra attack on 6 to hit.
chainsabre is the same as chainsword but +1 
strenght

Wraithguards/blades 
are S5 T5 W3 3+ 
Wraithcannon is 12" Assault 1 S10 Ap-4 d6 
damage

Wave serpent
 M16" T7 W13. Serpent shield 
reduce damage by 1, minimun 1.

Demolisher Cannon
24" Heavy d3 (d6 against 5 or more models) S10 
Ap-3 d6 damage.

Logan
7 wounds, 5 attacks, 4++
Wolf guards are immune to battleshock within 6".
Morkai is S+2 Ap-3 damage d3 or Sx2 AP-3 
damage 3 -1 to hit.

Grav Amps 
are now part of the Grav Cannon 
profile, Heavy 4 S5 Ap-3 damage 1 or d3 against 
3+ saves
Centurions don't have malus for shooting heavy 
weapons after moving
Omniscope gives ignore cover.

Riptide
M12" BS4+ S6 T7 W14 2+ 5++
Nova reactor gives moral wounds
can put wounds on drones
Heavy 8 S6 Ap-1 damage 1
72" heavy 3 S7 AP -3 damage 1
can overwatch if within 6" from a charged unit 
(generic Tau rule)

Commissars
 give his LD to each AM unit within 
6". Those units also can't lose more than 1 model 
from a failed battleshock test.

Lysander
2+ 2+ S4 T4 W6 A4 3++
+1 Ld and reroll 1 to hit for every IF unit within 
6"
His Hammer is S+6 Ap-3 3 damage.

Death to the false emperor
Extra attack on a 6 to hit vs Imperium
Icons:
Khorne - Reroll charge
Nurgle - -1 Ld enemies within 3"
Tzeentch - Mortal wound on a 6 against an enemy
units within 12".

Berzerkers
M6" S5 A2 and can attack twice each combat. 
Khorne axe S+1 Ap-1

Magnus
S8 T7 W18 4++
Sx2 Ap -4 3 damage in melee
3 powers
His smite does d6 or 2d6 mortal wounds
Reroll hit and invulnerable of 1 for Thousand 
sons within 9"

Typhus
S4 T5 W6 A4 2+ 4++ (halves advancing)
on a 5+ ignore wounds
Manreaper is S+3 Ap-3 3 damage, 
Pistol is Pistol 2d6 S4 Ap-3.
+1 S and T for poxwalkers within 7" 
has the same ability for death guard unit of the 
starter nurgle lord.

Shokk attack gun
 is 60" Heavy d6 S2d6 AP -5 
d3 damage if you roll 11 or 12 for strenght you 
do 1d3 mortal wounds instead.

Nobs
S5 T4 W2 Sv 4+
orks within 3" don't run away on a 6"
They can have power knife (Im not kidding) at 
3points for Ap-2
Saw is Sx2 AP -4 2 damage
Claw is Sx2 AP -3 d3 damage.

Flash gits
 have 24" Heavy 3 S5 Ap -2
After they shoot roll a dice, on a 6 they shoot 
again at the nearest enemy unit. Badrukk reroll 1 
to hit. Every model can have an ammo runt for a 
single hit reroll in the shooting phase.

AND THEY SHALL KNOW NO FEAR
Is just a morale reroll.

Banshee
M8" A2 Sv 4+
Mask make them attack always first in melee
+3" to charge or advance
-1 to hit them in melee if with exarch
Executioner blase is S+2 Ap-3 d3 damage but 
with a -1 to hit.

Dreadknight
M8" S6 T6 W12 
Heavy Psycannon 24" S7 -1 2 damage
Psylencer Heavy 6 S4 1d3 damage.

Thunderwolf
 is no longer an upgrade, but a 
different warscroll
thunderwolf cavalry
 is 
M10" S4 T5 W3 3+

characters
 have 7 wounds on average.

frost shooting weapons
 do mortal wounds on a 6
against a multiwound model that they wounded 
but not killed.

Black rage
 is fnp 6+ and +1 attack if charging.

Lemartes
 allows reroll on hit and charging for 
death company within 6".

Sanguinary guards
 reroll hit if within 6" from a 
BA General
Death mask is -1 Ld within 3". Encarmine 
weapons are like power weapons but 1d3 
damage.

Sanguinor 
gives each BA units within 6" an extra
attack, can charge after retreating.

Dante
 is W6 aqnd gives reroll to hit at BA within 
6", the axe is S+2 Ap -3 d3 damage.

Adeptus Mechanicus:
Forge Worlds keywords, Cawl has Mars keyword 
and buffs Mars FW units. 
Adeptus Mechanicus keyword is shared, Cult 
Mechanicus kw and Skitarii kw are present to 
differentiate. Bonuses target AM keyword 
Canticles are chosen at the start of each Battle 
Round and last that much, cannot be chosen 
twice. Among the effects they allow for rerolling 
1s to same FW kw units within 6".

Wraithknight
3+ S8 T8 W24 3+
Wraithcannon assault 2 S10 Ap -4 d6 damage
Wraithsword S x2 AP -4 6 damage
Wraithscythes are 8" assault d3 S10 AP -4 
Eldar battle focus is that they don't have the -1 to 
hit when shooting after advancing.

Power from pain
 is now dependant on turn
turn 1: 6+ fnp
2: +1 to hit
3: reroll run and charge
4: ignore battleshock
5: -1 to enemy leadership.

Tervigon
M8" W14 S7 T8 Save3+, can either create a 10 
Fleshbane Termagaunt unit (you need to keep the 
points for them) OR re-add 10 Fleshbane 
Termagaunt models to an existing unit IF the lost 
models has Fleshbane already.

Ork Battlewagon
 M12" W16 T7 Save 4+, can 
get T8 but loses Open-topped. Deff Rolla hits on 
a 2+, 6 attacks S8 Ap-2.

C'tan
 220/230 points
M8 WS2+ BS2+ S8 T8 W8 4++
melee AP-4 d6 damage nightbringer, the same 
but 3 damage the deceiver.
Deceiver can redeploy itself and 1d3 units 
everywhere at almost 12" from the enemy but 
can't charge. 
Nighbringer has a shooting attack 12" assault 
d6 S8 AP -4 d3 damage 
They know a c'tan power listed at the beginning. 
Apparently they are characters so holy shit they 
can't be targeted.

Scatter lasers
 are 36" Heavy 4 Ap0

Inquisitors
 can enter any Imperial vehicle and 
give bubble buffs to Imperium keyword units, 
depending on the Ordo chosen

Grey Knights
 know a nerfed verison of Smite, 
12" 1 mortal wound (3 if Daemon keyword)

Necrons: 
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of 
your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain 
model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again 
in the following turns. You cannot roll if the 
whole unit is slain. 
Living metal allows for automatically regaining 
lost wounds 
Basic Gauss is 24" Rapid Fire **Ap-2**, Gauss 
Cannon is Ap-3 Dmg
Discipline 10 
Warriors cost unchanged form 7th. 
Monolith M6" W20 S8 T8 Save3+, Gauss Flux 
Arc Heavy 3 S5 Ap-2, Whip Heavy 6 S8 Ap-2 
DmgD6. When it gets charged, roll on a D6 and if
4+ (or worse, depending on wounds lost) 
charging unit gets D6 mortal wounds.

Space Marines:
Grav is S5 Ap-3 and does DmgD3 if Save is 3+ 
or better 
Narthecium no longer provides FnP but heals a 
model for D3 wounds

Tau: 
Markerlights are cumulative per phase and 
provide different bonuses, depending on how 
many hit the unit. Basic is reroll 1s, then you 
have remove cover bonus, increase BS, use 
Seeker/Destroyer Missiles (normally 
snapshooting) 
Railguns have a chance to do Mortal Wounds 
Activating Nova Reactor may result in Mortal 
Wound 
Firesight Marksmen are Independent Characters 
Pulse rifles are AP0. Pulse Blasters AP-1 at 10" 
and AP-2 at 5", Assault 2. 
Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits give a -1 malus to 
BS if shot at from more than 12", can deploy 
outside of deployment zone at 12". 
Broadside Railgun is Heavy 2 S8 Ap-4 DmgD6, 
HYMP is Heavy 4 S7 Ap-1 DmgD3 
Pathfinders and Kroots are faster than Fire 
Warriors

Mephiston
M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+ 
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds 
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+ 
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers 
and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline

Tervigon
M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+ 
Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can 
add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit 
(not over the unit size at the start of the game)


----------



## Shandathe

Even with 12 Wounds on that Sunshark, looks like it will be a lot easier to shoot down. For shooty armies at least, not necessarily assault ones (wonder if Stormboyz will get Fly?). That'll shift the balance of them a bit, but at least they will no longer feel like they got bolted on to the system late.


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## Khorne's Fist

Mephiston is as badass as ever, and Corbulo looks like a no-brainer now.


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## Battman

scscofield said:


> A few other leaks I am translating, from a store owner who is leaking info on an Italian forum:
> 
> 
> Ork Battlewagon M12" W16 T7 Save 4+, can get T8 but loses Open-topped. Deff Rolla hits on a 2+, 6 attacks S8 Ap-2
> *Space Marines:*/QUOTE]
> 
> Waaagh deffrollas are back!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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## scscofield




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## Khorne's Fist

These turned up on a Japanese GW store's fb page, with the caption "New SM heroes!"


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## Entarion

Chapter Ancient, Company Ancient, Primaris Ancient, Terminator Ancient. What is the difference between those ? Are they banner bearers like Primaris Ancient ?? Is there fluff for them?
Terminator has same equipment like Assault Terminators so why name change.

Also hate it because I planned to use Ancient as name for my Honour Guard.


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## darkreever

Entarion said:


> Chapter Ancient, Company Ancient, Primaris Ancient, Terminator Ancient. What is the difference between those ? Are they banner bearers like Primaris Ancient ?? Is there fluff for them?


Different kinds of banner bearers, if you read the terminator ancient you'd see he only has one lightning claw and cannot take a storm shield, since he's equipped with the angelis standard.

Beyond that they all have more wounds, attacks, and better leadership as well.

As for fluff, there is some stuff here and there for banner bearers/chapter ancients though its very dependent on the chapter.



Entarion said:


> Also hate it because I planned to use Ancient as name for my Honour Guard.


And there is nothing stopping *you* from using that title for the honour guard of *your* chapter.


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## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Space Marines​*
They know no fear and are the Angels of Death, serving as the Emperor’s mailed fist, delivering death to the enemies of mankind. They are the most iconic faction in Warhammer 40000: Space Marines. While considered by many in the Imperium to be heroes, they are undeniably monsters to their enemies. The most popular faction in the Warhammer 40,000 universe is coming back with reinforcements, the new Primaris Space Marines.

Armies of the Adeptus Astartes are currently mostly played two ways. One is the Battle Company play style which consists of lots of Space Marines, grav cannons and (often free) vehicles. All told, it can often make them feel like a bit of a horde army. The other way is to pair them up with Space Wolves and Dark Angels to combine the numerous overlapping Universal Special Rules from Characters into a single, powerful unit.

In the new edition of Warhammer 40,000, Space Marine players will have a wealth of options for how they assemble their force. While this may mean that the builds that are currently most popular may no longer be the most efficient, it means that you can look again at the massive range of Space Marine units available, and know that all of them can find a place in your army.

Let’s start with the Centurions since these guys have been very popular since their release. They get the Centurion missile launcher, which is D3 shots at Strength 8, AP -2, which do D3 damage. They can also take two lascannons. which means these guys are terrifying against high Toughness, high Wound models. Now if hordes are what you fear, don’t worry, they can still take two heavy bolters and hurricane bolters, dishing out loads of shots every turn. These models will be extremely hard to kill with their 2+ save and 3 Wounds. And, be sure to keep an Apothecary nearby to keep these guys alive and kicking.

But, what about the question everyone has on their minds? What about grav cannons? The weapons that single-handedly changed the game in the current Warhammer 40,000? Well, I am very happy to say that grav weapons are still good, but have been mercifully toned down to a much more reasonable weapon. They now no longer relegate so many units in the game to being relatively poor choices, but they still pack a nasty punch for those of you that have these models in your collections.










Next up, let’s talk a bit about Predators. Predators haven’t been seeing much play in quite a long while. As noted above, with the abundance of grav weapons on the tables, being a vehicle was a hindrance. Luckily that is no longer the case. Predators are powerful, able to carry 4 lascannons into battle while being Toughness 7 with 11 Wounds – this vehicle is now a very scary unit. The Predator will be in your backfield raining death upon transports and elite units alike. Or, load them up with the Predator autocannon and heavy bolters, or a mix of any of those choices, as you can fire every weapon at a different target! Make sure to get these bad boys a new paint job in honour of the new edition and make some room in those army cases, cause Predators are back!

How about we talk a little bit about the famous Primarch that just came back, Roboute Guilliman? We’ve all seen his stats and he looks like a beast with his 9 Wounds and 6 Attacks. His gun also is good, being Rapid Fire 3, giving him 6 shots at half range. It is also Strength 6, AP -1 and does 2 Damage per shot – essentially an auto cannon with more shots on a platform that hits on 2s and is hard as nails to kill. He also wields the Emperor’s own sword which gives him +2 Strength and slices up enemy armour with AP -4 and 3 Damage per swing. Plus on the wound roll of a 6+, the weapon does an additional D3 mortal wounds…ouch! This guy can kill most things in the game by himself.

His new armor is pretty awesome as well, giving him a 3+ invulnerable save and allowing him to get back up of a 4+ the first time he dies. Good luck killing Roboute. He cannot have anything else going for him could he? Well, he also gives all Ultramarines within 6” of him the ability to re-roll hits and wounds. That is magnificently powerful. Guilliman is a warrior straight out of legend and will be seen on many a tabletop.

Lastly, let’s talk about the iconic Space Marine Dreadnoughts. These machines, unfortunately, have been outpaced by other units for a while now, but that is all about to change. Dreadnoughts in the new edition are Toughness 7 with 8 Wounds, which makes them a lot more resilient than before. They also have 4 Attacks that are Strength 12, AP -3 and 3 Damage each, which will put a serious hurt on any target. Their heavy flamer is excellent for overwatch and killing hordes, and the heavy weapons they can take make them scary at range as well. I anticipate a lot of twin lascannon equipped Dreadnoughts in the near (far?) future.

Dreadnaughts are no longer pushovers, and they can be scary in close combat and in shooting. Like all vehicles, they no longer have to worry about the punishing damage table rendering them worthless due to immobilisation, etc. It is a good day to be a Dreadnought…you know, despite having to be horribly injured and stuck in a walking sarcophagus.

Overall Space Marines are a very versatile army and will play more closely to their lore without the free points and character bombs. I hope you are all ready to retake the galaxy for mankind!


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## scscofield

*New Warhammer 40,000: Choosing Your Army*










Creating an army in the new Warhammer 40,000 is a lot of fun.
There are as many ways to go about this as there are Warhammer 40,000 players out there; some of you will pick you army based on your favourite models, some based on a particularly inspiring bit of lore or background you’ve read, and some because you like the way certain units behave on the battlefield. For most of us, it’s a bit of all of the above.
Choosing an army in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 can be as simple or as easy as you like. At the most basic level, you can just put whatever models you have in your collection on the table and get rolling – this is the very essence of open play.








For a little more balance and structure, you can use Power Levels. These can be found on the datasheets of every unit and give a rough approximation of its relative effectiveness. Power Levels are ideal for narrative play and allow you to very quickly work out which force is more powerful so you can either add or take away a few units to balance it or play a mission that calls for forces of different sizes (like a siege or a glorious last stand).
The final mechanism for selecting an army is to use points, most commonly associated with matched play. These will be familiar to anyone who plays the game today and are designed to balance your force for use in the 12 Eternal War and Maelstrom of War missions.
While Power Levels are purposefully an approximation of a unit’s effectiveness, points are, if anything, more granular than they have ever been, with each individual item costing a certain amount.
The best way to show this is with a quick example. We’ve used a Drukhari force, lead by an Archon (classic).
   

This army is 1000 points and is Battle-forged using the Patrol Detachment. It is typical of what you might expect from an army of this size.
We have an HQ choice, a mix of units kitted out to deal with both Infantry and Vehicles, Transports and a Flyer to back them up. The points for each model, gun and item of equipment add up to give the army’s total cost in points.
One thing you’ll probably notice is that vehicles generally tend to cost more points in this edition. Though you’ll find that their increased flexibility and durability means that they are certainly well worth taking. (This is especially true of Drukhari ones, which can now not only ram enemy units but fly out of combat and still shoot you!) 
Another thing you’ll likely see much more of is vehicles and squads with mixed weapons. So, in this case, those splinter rifles the Kabalites are carrying can be targeting squishy infantry targets while the heavier guns in the squad can hunt larger prey. It means you might not need dedicated anti-infantry or armour units as much if you’ve spread that killing power around your army.









This army is a fairly typical Drukhari force, but the new edition opens up a whole range of new options. Previously, a lot of the more extreme army builds were only available to certain armies through formations, but now anyone can use them! There are Detachments available that focus on each of the nine battlefields roles, which gives you loads of options for building a force, even within a Battle-forged list.
Ever fancy a whole army of tanks? How about a Penitent Engine crusade? Or an entire swarm of flying Tyranid monsters? Or an army of speed-mad Ork bikers and buggies?
They all sound awesome.
The options are endless, the choice is yours.


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## scscofield

Before the start of the battle, generate the Ct'an Powers of each C'TAN SHARD using the table below. You can roll a D3 to generate them randomly (rerolling duplicates), or pick the ones you want the C'tan Shard know.


Antimatter Meteor: Roll a D6; On a 2+ the closest visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan Shard takes D3 mortal wounds.
Time Arrow: Choose a visible unit within 24" from the C'tan shard and roll a D6. If the result is greater than than the Wound's characteristic, a model is killed.
Seismic Assault: Roll a D6 for each model in the nearest enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan Shard. For each result equal to 6 it suffers a mortal wound. 
*quantum shielding*
Evertime this model suffers an unsaved wound, roll a d6. If the result is lower than the damage, ignore the damage
*Reanimation Protocols*
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
*Gauss Weapons*


Gauss Flayer 24" Rapid Fire 1 S4 AP-1 D1
Gauss Blaster 24" Rapid Fire 1 S5 AP-2 D1
Gauss Cannon 24" Heavy 2 S5 AP-3 D3
Heavy Gauss Cannon 36" Heavy 1 S9 AP-4 D6
Twin Linked Heavy Gauss Cannon 36" Heavy 2 S9 AP-4 D6
Gauss Flayer Array 24" Rapid Fire 5 S4 AP-1 D1
 *Tesla Weapons*


Tesla Carbine 24" Assault 2 S5 AP0 D1
Tesla Cannon 24" Assault 3 S6 AP0 D1
Tesla Destuctor 24" Assault 4 S7 AP0 D1
Twin Linked Tesla Destuctor 24" Assault 8 S7 AP0 D1
Tesla Sphere 24" Assault 5 S7 AP0 D1
 Tesla weapons special rule on a 6+ the weapon inflicts 3 hits instead of 1
*Particle Weapons*


Particle Caster 12" Pistol 1 S6 AP0 D1
Particle Beamer 24" Assault 3 S6 AP0 D1
Particle Shredder 24" Heavy 6 S7 AP-1 D3
Particle Whip 24" Heavy 6 S8 AP-2 D3
 *Doomsday Cannon*
two profiles, the second has additonal rules but they are too small for me to read


low power 24" Heavy D3 AP-2 D3
high power 72" Heavy D3 Ap-5 D6
 *Heat Ray*


dispersed 8" Heavy D6 S5 AP-1 D1
concentrated 24" Heavy ?3? S8 AP-4 D6
 the dispersed heat ray is like a flamer it auto hits
the concentrated special rule might be the same like melta weapons
*ctan powers*


antimatter meteor: on a 2+, closest enemy in sight gets d3 mortal wounds
time arrow: choose an unit within 24 and roll a d6, if the result is more than the wound stat of the unit's models, remove a model
seismic assault: roll a d6 for each model of the closet unit within 24 of the ctan, for each 6 is a remove
*Gaze of Death* 12" Assault D6 S- AP-4 D3
 Gaze of Death wounds on 2+, vehicles on 6+
*Zandrek*
at the start of enemy turn choose a character within 12 and it can't active rules
4++
at the beginning of your turn choose a sautek infantry within 6 and add 1 to advance, charges and hit rolls passing madness: roll a d3, choose an infantry unit within 6 at the start of the turn


1: avenge the fallen: + 1 attack
2: stop the rebellion: +1 to bs
3: sunmills? charge!: reroll charge


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## scscofield

These are someone else's translations, I do not know how well it is translated:

Warboss in Mega armour
Kustom Shoota is 18", Assault 4, S4, AP0, Dam 1 Power Klaw is Sx2, AP-3, DamD3, -1 to Hit
Can replace Kustom Shoota with any item from Shootas or Special Weapons
Has Mob Rule, 'ere we go!
Waaagh! Is Ork infantry within 6" can Charge and Advance in the same turn.
Smash heads is deal D3 mortal wounds to a nearby Ork mob to cancel the result of a failed Morale test.
Battlewagon
Rokkit Launcha is 24", Assault 1, S8, AP-2, DamD3
Big Shoota is 36", Assault 3, S5, AP0, Dam1
Cannonsomethingsomething pick a profile Frag is 36", Heavy D6, S4, AP0, Dam1 Krak/Massive 36", Heavy 1, S8, AP-2, DamD6
Tank Kannon 24", Heavy D6, S7, AP-2, Dam2
Bombard(?) is 48", Heavy D6, S5, AP0, Dam1, can fire indirectly
Zzapgun is 36", Heavy 1, S2D6, AP-3, Dam3, if you get a 11+ on S it deals 3 mortal wounds instead
Crushing Ball S+1, AP-1, Dam1, cannot quite read all it says in the notes, but something about limiting the number of attacks to 3
Megagrabber (?) is SUser, AP-3, DamD3, can only attack once with this
Death-Rolla is SUser, AP-2, Dam1, this weapon hits on 2+ Explodes at 0 Wounds on a 6, dealing 6 mortal wounds within 6"
Closed up: Has T8 but loses open-topped
Moving Fortress: Ignores the penalty for moving and shooting Heavy weapons
Open-topped: Units embarked can shoot from it, but cannot do so while the unit is within melee range of an enemy unit.
Can carry 20 Ork infantry models, models in mega-armour take two spots. If you have taken the tank gun it can only transport 12 models.
Stompa
Weapons: Gitrokkit can only be fired once per shooting phase, once per game
Deffkannon changes to Heavy2D6 when shooting at units of 20+ models
Choppa, two profiles. 2nd profile: 3 hits instead of one per attack
Special Rules are 'ere we go
Explodes at 0 Wounds on a 6 it deals D6 mortal wounds to units within 2D6"
Big and stompier: Can Fall Back and shoot or charge in the same turn. Can move over enemy models. Can shoot heavy weapons and move without penalty. Has to be more than 50% covered to gain cover bonuses.
Psychi-Dakka-Blasta! Can fire his Super-Megablasta more than once. Do so roll a D6, on a 2+ you can fire it again, on a 1 the ammo is used up and you cannot use the weapon anymore for the rest of the battle. For a third time the roll is 4+.
Orkish Icon: Friendly Units within 6" of a Stompa can re-roll failed Morale tests.
Can transport 20 Ork infantry models. Models in mega armour take two spots.


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## Shandathe

Finally an Index leak that's interesting for me, thanks @scscofield :grin:

Sisters look interesting. So 1 Act of Faith standard(well, sort of, 2+) and it scales by adding Imagifiers (and Celestine) for more... and those things look pretty powerful. Need extra Movement to get into position? An extra Shooting phase with the heavy weapons of the Retributors? An extra Fight phase with Repentia(who can finally assault from transports) where the enemy doesn't even get to strike back? The flat out RETURN of a heavy weapon where the enemy thought it gone?

That's sure as hell better than the CURRENT set of Acts of Faith. It's probably even possible to form a gunline if you want to be an idiot about it.... mind you, as you can still grab all the special/heavy weapons you need with just 5 Sisters in the squad I don't think 5-sisters-in-an-Immolator is going anywhere but toward the enemy :laugh:


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## scscofield

Want to say most of this is repeat for admech but here it is:
Sooo my store has demo copies, so this is what I recall (had no working camera)
Keywords are Imperium, Adeptus mechanicus, <forge World>, Cult Mechanicus, Skitarii, it seems you can easily make an ad mech/<fW> army now as thats where all the abilities are tied too, Doctrina imperatives are gone now, they all use canticles there are 6, you can only use each one once unless you roll on the chart to use a random one (even one already expended as I understand it) the ones I recall reroll 1's to hit in assault reroll 1's to hit in shooting +1 str cover if out in open, nothing if in cover
omnispex' just ignore cover bonuses altogether 
neutron lasers, rng 48 d3 shots str 10 ap -4 damage d6 but if you roll a 1 or 2 count it as 3 (so 3-6 damage)-45 points
Plasma cavaliers lost a shot but also lost gets hot, gained the over charge ability, -14 points the arquebi became str7 ap -2 damage _I THINK_ 1 with the ability to target characters
Rangers/vanguard/ most infantry got Bionics- a 6+ invuln save The rangers got a small nerf their Galvanic rifless are str 4 ap 0 but ap -1 if they roll a 6 to wound, 
vanguards stayed about the same, still doubling on 6's -1 T to things without the vehicle keyword within 1" of the vanguard
Onagers are t7 with 11 wounds, a 5+ invuln thats re-rollable if there is another onager within 6" (so that means you dont need to have them all in one unit) It looses M BS and A off of wounds, something like 8"/3+/3 from 6-11, 4-5 is 5"/4+/d3 and 1-3 is 3"/5+/1
Cawl is 8 wounds mostly the same with the solar atomiser being d3 Damage, or d6 in half range, lost his dataspike.
Statblocks for things about the same, Infiltrators Neurostatic aura is just -1 ld, ruststalkers transonic weapons are all damage 1 ap 0 but if you roll a 6 to wound its a mortal wound I was in a rush so I forgot to check M values Ill add more as I recall it




And some other things (DE)
"Dark Eldar/Druhkari via a friend, from an Eldar FB group: apply salt as required. 
I've just read our index. I've got few observations to share. tl;dl it seems really balanced with every unit viable but without any really big power boost. 
-First of all we have to wait for the proper Codex, becouse it's just the basics. Minimum special rules for the units and without any special items except weapons. 
-Forget what you know about points values. almost everything have a different cost maybe except Venoms. 
-Vehicles with 10+ wounds and being less likely to blow up should really benefit our faction. 
-FNP is like in 7th game turn based. 1: 6+ inv 2:reroll run/charge 3:+1to hit but CC only 
Units: 


Archon would be a cheap HQ filler. Even Bestmaster is more expensive  and new huskblade is a joke. His special boost is just use my LD or whatever. 
Haemonculus give +1t bubble but only for coven units. 
Succub seems about the same, I forget what she gives cult units, rerolls maybe. Archite Glaive is now +2s but -1 to hit 😞 
 -Court are similiar I think to what we had in 7th. 
-Warriors are 7 points. 
-wyches are similiar but with 'no escape' rule. 
-Incubi got reasonable price and the mandrakes seems really good 😛 With nice shooting attack, 5++ and Deep strike. 
-beasts are looking interesting, high attack values and movement. Beastmaster let them use his LD and give to hit rerolls. 
-Reavers are about twice as costly  Got second wound but losses all interesting abilities. Caltrops now activates only when the opponent is running away. Meh! Their turboboost is just straight 24'' now. 
-Scourges are cheap and have that no scatter Deep Strike. Haywire now damages vehicles on 4+ and deal 1 bonus mortal wound or D3 if you roll 6 to wound. 
-Wracks and grots are about the same as they were. I was hoping on some more wounds for the G-Unit 😞 Haemoculus seems mandatory for the +1t now. 
-Raider cost about two 7th ed Raiders  you can mix passengers now (except Incubi) All have 5++. 
-Ravager is now the same price as a Raider. 
-Venoms should be gold. -1 to hit for the opponent and still you got this 5++. Obvoius upgrade for the splinter cannon is now free I think 😀 
-Flyers with more wounds seems really good now, But they are just -1 to hit for ground units. 
The Bomb is generating D6s for every model Voidraven will fly over (3d6 for monsters/vehicles) maximum is 10 dice. Then they will deal mortal wounds on 4+ 
-Taloi are cheaper but nerfed with only 6t/6s 😞 got 8'' movement but now could explode. The blast deals mortal wounds so can easly damage other taloi. Of course they got more wounds now. 
-Cronos is more expensive than Talos and gove no boost I think. He is the damage dealer now."


And some Chaos:


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## scscofield




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## Shandathe

Praise Gork (or Mork) that they dropped it to T5. A T7 Mek Gun battery (plus potential ICs) was a horrible thing to have to remove at range. The Bubblechuckka looks REALLY amusing, though similarly unreliable.


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## scscofield




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## scscofield

English Version


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## scscofield




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## scscofield




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## scscofield

Shandathe said:


> Praise Gork (or Mork) that they dropped it to T5. A T7 Mek Gun battery (plus potential ICs) was a horrible thing to have to remove at range. The Bubblechuckka looks REALLY amusing, though similarly unreliable.


There is a lot of muttering and concern that the old school lobba, zzap and kannon are not listed in that entry.


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## scscofield




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## scscofield




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## scscofield




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## scscofield




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## scscofield




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## scscofield

So droppods only carry infantry models now.....


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## ntaw

RIP Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods...? Yikes. At least I can still bring them in with Stormravens.


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## Gulstaf

For anyone interested in a translation of Lucius the Eternal (I found this on some other site, cannot speak for its accuracy)

Movement: 6"
Weapon Skill: 2+
Ballistic Skill: 2+
Strengh: 4
Toughtness: 4
Wounds: 5
Attacks: 5
Leadership: 9
Armor: 3+/5++

Weapons:
Doom siren: 8", assault 1d3, strength: 5, AP: -1, damage: 1 . This weapon automatically hits its targets and negates cover bonus to armor
Lash of torment: 6", assault 2, strength: user, AP: -1, damage: 2. This weapon can be shot at 1" or less from its targets, and can also hit targets who stand at 1" or less from friendly units
Master crafted power sworld: melee, strength: user, AP: -3, damage: 2
Frag and krak grenades

Special rules:
Death to false emperor
Armour of shrieking souls: Gives 5++, and every time Lucius roll a succesful salvation in melee phase, roll 1d6. On 4+, the enemy unit who made the wound suffers a mortal wound after all of their attacks are resolved.
Duelist pride: If all of Lucius attacks' target a single enemy CHARACTER, Lucius gets 2 additional attacks against that character
Lord of Slaanesh: Friendly EMPEROR'S CHILDREN units at 6" or closer can reroll failed to hit rolls of '1' (As written it's both shooting and melee rolls)

Keywords: CHAOS, SLAANESH, HERETIC ASTARTES, EMPEROR'S CHILDREN



If this is accurate Lucius will once more be an auto include in my EC army.


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## Brother Dextus

Having played a wee demo game at WH Fest, I just want to get this release over with so I can see how good or shit the models I already have will be, and what viable 'formations' (or whatever we're calling them now) I can run. 

My Templars are loving the whole 'get out of rhino and follow the metal bawks into combat'!
Obliterators randomness is actually good in my opinion (although lots of people are turning chicken little about it).


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## Brother Dextus

Gulstaf said:


> Stuff
> 
> 
> If this is accurate Lucius will once more be an auto include in my EC army.



Lucius, some noise marines, some daemonettes... job done.


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## Roganzar

Brother Dextus said:


> Gulstaf said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stuff
> 
> 
> If this is accurate Lucius will once more be an auto include in my EC army.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucius, some noise marines, some daemonettes... job done.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a Party to me. 
Someone call Andrew W.K. cuz they're gonna Party Hard!


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## Brother Dextus

Oh - I don't know if anyone posted up pricing and the FW effect... quick summary from the seminars I attended:

Main 8th rules will be free digital or £35 hardback, with £15 'codex' type books in softback. They're working on the digi codices, but the digi team is only 4 people, so its a big challenge. They're trying to move people to digital as a matter of course as the production of physical books is a massive money sink for GW.

FW are reprinting the old Imperial Armour books into 4no new ones: Space Marines, Chaos, Xenos and Imperial Human/Admech. Again £15 each. This will be JUST the 40k tanks (will not include the HH rules bits, and stuff will be toned for 40k use, so you will need the actual 30k books to use in HH games).

Rules and errata will be done online and as PDF, and will be rapid based on community interaction and feedback from stores etc. (Phil K is already working on one after it went to print).

HH games will be in 7th for the foreseeable. New 'HH 7th Ed' rulebook for £35 hardback red book coming out which is basically stripped 7th rulebook with only the stuff needed for HH games. There are NO plans to move HH into 8th, there will not be 'three styles of play'. This is HH gaming and not aimed at newcomers, and certainly not the young uns. 

FW are working on a LOT of new stuff to bring HH to a climax in about 5 years. They view the HH as a long view project, with the release of characters and models to support the black lib and their narrative. There will be a few BL books for Terra and there will be the Big E who they have started spitballing ideas for. 

Tony's words were "Well, the previous characters have only been Primarchs, this is the Emperor we're talking about"....


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## DaisyDuke

Nice info from the fest dude, I was gutted I couldn't make it. But the Mrs said another patio needed building in the garden. I also wish they'd just get on and release it already!


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## Khorne's Fist

ntaw said:


> RIP Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods...? Yikes. At least I can still bring them in with Stormravens.


Now that FW minis will be fully compatible, this feels like a way of shifting more dreadnought drop pods.


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## Khorne's Fist

More pics of this new sprue.


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## Khorne's Fist

*New Warhammer 40,000: War Zone Ultramar*​
We’ve heard already about a lot of the war zones of the new Warhammer 40,000 – Baal, Armageddon, Damocles, Cadia – some are new battles and others are continuations of long and bitter wars that trace their origins back to before the Horus Heresy.

The war zone we are going to talk about today, though, is particularly hard fought – a war zone that contains hundreds of planets, amongst them the home world of the Ultramarines and their Primarch.

The region of Ultramar is one of the largest jewels in the crown of the Imperium and was one of the few places in the galaxy that could be considered prosperous… but that jewel is about to lose its sparkle.

The new Warhammer 40,000 book looks at this war zone in some detail. Let’s have a little look at what it has to say:

“WAR ZONE: ULTRAMAR

Greedy eyes looked out from the roiling warp. They lingered long over the southern reaches of Ultima Segmentum. Nurgle wanted them for his own. He wished to lavish his gifts upon them, to watch their citizens sprout new growths and lament while other parts rotted and sloughed off.

The worlds of Ultramar were prosperous, well governed and aesthetically beautiful. It is no wonder that such a gem drew the eager eye of Nurgle. Wishing to annex those worlds directly into his own Garden in the Realm of Chaos, the Father of Plagues set his minions to the task. After the Great Rift tore reality and flooded warp energies into the galaxy, Nurgle deemed the time was ripe.

Where seeds of corruption had been planted, where the Plague That Walks, the Oozing Pox, and the Eyerot had decimated overcrowded hive worlds, there did Nurgle put forth his greatest efforts. As darkness closed over those worlds, new, virulent strains of those dreadful diseases started the cycle of death anew. This time, however, the cycle was completed, for there was life also. From the corpses of the fallen burst countless Nurglings. In the devastation that ensued, Cults of Corruption summoned further aid. The following battles – known by the Imperium as the Plague Wars – ended when three systems to the galactic north of Ultramar were corrupted and turned into the Scourge Stars. Calling upon three of his greatest commanders, Nurgle tasked them with next conquering Ultramar.”



Well, things are looking pretty grim for the worlds of Ultramar. As if narrowly surviving a Tyranid hive fleet a few decades back and weathering a Black Legion invasion in the Gathering Storm weren’t bad enough…

As well as the background on the war zone though, we also get some maps of the region, seeing how the sub-empire of Ultramar and some of the 500 Worlds connect.

The story of the upcoming Dark Imperium box set is set in Ultramar (though battles like it are erupting all across the Imperium). The Ultramarines, of course, have been reinforced by the arrival of their Primaris Space Marine brothers and the return of their Primarch. The legions of Nurgle, though, are nothing if not tenacious, and with the Death Guard leading the way, will this latest, inexorable attack be the doom of Ultramar?

Let’s see how it plays out…


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## Old Man78

scscofield said:


> So droppods only carry infantry models now.....


Well it doesn't specifically say no dreads or thunderfire cannons, or hopefully there will be a specific "support" drop pod


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## Gulstaf

Found this as well, Cypher and the fallen for any who are interested.


I'm more interested in Fabius, looks like he can modify any chaos space marine infantry, even cult troops or terminators unless I'm reading this wrong. This could be pretty useful as long as you don't roll to many 6.


----------



## Khorne's Fist




----------



## Brother Lucian

B&C has info about a new campaign called Fate of Konor, which seems to be kicking off in summer. Looks related to Warzone Ultramar. So the smurfs will take center stage once again as expected.
summer campaign info? fate of konor? - + NEWS, RUMORS, AND BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS + - The Bolter and Chainsword


----------



## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Necrons*​
Necrons are one of the most resilient armies in the current edition, thanks to their Reanimation Protocols save, and in games today, Necrons are known for having giant Canoptek Spyders spawning hordes of little scarabs to overwhelm their opponents. It is also common to see large numbers of Canoptek Wraiths and Tomb Blades, which are extremely fast, resilient and hit like a ton of bricks. But how do these ancient metallic monsters fare in the new Warhammer 40,000?

We should start with the most iconic Necron rule: Reanimation Protocols. This rule changes from a save to a roll to bring the model back to life each turn. When a Necron model with this rule dies, you keep track of how many in the unit have gone down. You will then be able to place models back into their units every turn on the roll of a 5+ per model lost. The models must be placed in unit coherency with the unit it came from. This rule is so powerful because it happens at the beginning of EACH of your turns. I want to say this again for emphasis: you roll for each downed model with this rule at the beginning of every turn unless the unit has been wiped out. So, if a Necron Warrior is killed in turn 1, you’d roll to bring him back turn 2, 3, 4, etc. until he either reanimates or the rest of the unit is destroyed. Wow. Necrons are seriously hard to keep down!

Illuminor Szeras, who is a bulked up Cryptek, can help boost this ability. Like all Crypteks, Szeras allows Necron units within 3” of him to add +1 to their Reanimation Protocols rolls. He can also improve a unit of Warriors or Immortals every turn by giving them either +1 Ballistic Skill, +1 Strength, or +1 Toughness, which lasts for the rest of the game (although a unit may only receive this bonus once per game), which turns those units into something to fear. Illuminor is a solid choice for any Necron army and will be seen leading many forces to battle.

Anrakyr the Traveller is a Necron Character who can also provide bonuses to Necron Infantry by giving +1 Attack to units within 3” of him. But I think his best ability is My Will Be Done, which allows him to give a friendly Infantry unit +1 to hit, advance and charge. These bonuses can combine to make Necron Infantry very scary and play exactly how I would expect them to based on their background. Prepare to see legions of large units advancing in a phalanx, taking everything the enemy can throw at them and dishing it right back.

Next up, we have the Heavy Destroyers, who will eat through a vehicle without breaking a sweat (or oil, or whatever they leak?). These ignore the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons which makes their Strength 9, AP -4, D6 Damage weapon especially lethal due to its mobility. They get to re-roll 1’s to hit, which makes them extremely deadly when paired up with a Character like Anrakyr.

Lastly, we have the iconic Necron Warrior. These are now one of the strongest Troop units in the game with their Strength 4, AP -1 Rapid Fire guns. When let to battle by the various Necron Characters, these guys will last longer and bring even the strongest warriors to their knees. I often find myself running 60+ Necron Warriors in my list. With the maximum unit size set at 20, full units are the hardest to deny their Reanimation Protocol rolls. Backed with some of the more elite Infantry units, such as Immortals (whose standard gauss blaster is AP -2!) you have a short ranged and somewhat slow, but utterly vicious army.



Just be mindful of protecting your all important Characters, as they are what really makes the army hum. Luckily for you, nearly all Necron Characters (who are already pretty dang tough) have the Living Metal rule that allows them to heal a wound every turn.

And just because you’ve all been waiting patiently for millions of years, have a Monolith datasheet:



Which dynasty of Necrons will you conquer the galaxy with? I hope all of you long time Necron players are as excited as I am for these changes and the new Warhammer 40,000.


----------



## darkreever

Brother Lucian said:


> Looks related to Warzone Ultramar. So the smurfs will take center stage once again as expected.


Well at least it makes sense, considering Ultramar was a decent focus of rise of a primarch. At least the next editions set should be someone different, maybe Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, or Salamanders.


----------



## Shandathe

The problem with Warzone Ultramar is that it's going to end in a very predictable Ultramarine win. Oh, I'm sure normal people will die and most of the Chapter will be Primaris by the end as the rest of them got killed, but... yeah. AT MOST I expect a single named character with an old sculpt to die.


----------



## Old Man78

Shandathe said:


> The problem with Warzone Ultramar is that it's going to end in a very predictable Ultramarine win. Oh, I'm sure normal people will die and most of the Chapter will be Primaris by the end as the rest of them got killed, but... yeah. AT MOST I expect a single named character with an old sculpt to die.



You reckon Guilliman will give his chapter the "thunder warrior" treatment? Except actually using them up in battle.


----------



## scscofield

So a Nob with a Waaagh Banner can use it as a weapon in melee  A str7 ap0 d2 weapon.......


----------



## Gret79

Link to chaos book... 
No more traitor legions. Imo, chaos has gone boring again... 
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zc2h3cExSekw3YUU


----------



## Gret79

No possessed table, no marks either :/


----------



## Gulstaf

Gret79 said:


> Link to chaos book...
> No more traitor legions. Imo, chaos has gone boring again...
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zc2h3cExSekw3YUU




Well, that didn't last very long.


----------



## Shandathe

Old Man78 said:


> You reckon Guilliman will give his chapter the "thunder warrior" treatment? Except actually using them up in battle.


Pretty much. I'll give him credit for perhaps not doing it consciously, but a lot of them will be dead before his Crusade even got back to Ultramar. Then between the fighting and the option to 'upgrade' existing marines to Primaris ones (which the Emperor didn't have for the Thunder Warriors)... I sincerely doubt the Ultramarines will be able to field even a single company of non-Primaris marines by the end of it.

Despite that, curiously, (nearly) the entire lineup of Ultramarine named special characters will be fine.

Marneus Calgar: MIGHT live, because papa smurf is iconic and those Honour Guard models he comes with still look fine. Of course, he IS in a curious position with Guilliman taking over and (unlike in Rise of the Primarch) not really needing him anymore.
Cato Sicarius: Eh, one can hope, but it seems very unlikely given the amount of GW wank.
Tigurius: Most likely to bite it heroically, IMO. The Imperium has a good number of powerful psykers (Hi Mephiston!) and his model's definitely showing its age - and tellingly doesn't have a 360 photo.
Cassius just got a new (Deathwatch) model, he'll be fine. Mind you, his old Ultramarine model looks like it got chewed by the Nids, so that one might be dropped. 
Telion: Hope the cranky old man lives. Still love that model. Especially the beard. 
Chronus: Would anyone miss him?


----------



## darkreever

Shandathe said:


> Marneus Calgar: MIGHT live, because papa smurf is iconic and those Honour Guard models he comes with still look fine. Of course, he IS in a curious position with Guilliman taking over and (unlike in Rise of the Primarch) not really needing him anymore.


While Guilliman is the lord of the Ultramarines, there are so many other places he'll be needed and given the kind of individual he is he would not completely strip Calgar of his power. If he doesn't remain the chapter master of the Ultramarines than likely Guilliman will have him become a tetrarch, recreating that group.


----------



## Corporal Chaos

Wow! I think I will be drawn back into 40K. 8th is looking a bit more...hmm.. interesting and manageable. I like it what I've seen so far.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Brother Lucian

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zdEtrRmEyelg2TkU

Saw this leak collection on B&C. Enjoy


----------



## scscofield




----------



## DaisyDuke

So anyone know what the point is of the keywords legion and mark? It appears they do nothing. If we have lost "legion tactics" and the loyalist keep their chapter tactics, that is shit! Especially after there recent introduction.
So do marks do anything anymore other than say your dudes are a member of one of the dedicated legions? 
Personally going to be a bit pissed if my night lords have lost all their recent flavour. Cos from these links it looks like gw couldn't be bothered with flavour. There doesn't look to be much difference between chaos and loyalist marine.
But it looks like my nids will get some table time this edition, will have to blow off some dust.


----------



## scscofield

All the faction specific rules (relics warlord traits ect ect) will be released in actual codexes. The index books are just glorified Errata/FAQ to adjust stats/points to 8th.

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----------



## Ryancook

It's just how long will we have to wait for the new codex lol

Hope not as long as last time!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kharn The Complainer

Gret79 said:


> Link to chaos book...
> No more traitor legions. Imo, chaos has gone boring again...
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zc2h3cExSekw3YUU


I'm a bit confused. (the link is now non-functioning) What do you mean by no traitor legions? Are you saying that they don't get any special rules?


----------



## Ryancook

Kharn The Complainer said:


> I'm a bit confused. (the link is now non-functioning) What do you mean by no traitor legions? Are you saying that they don't get any special rules?




Ye so they got rid of the traitor legions special rules

And the boon table

And marks of chaos don't do anything special any more (like Mark of nurgle giving +1T on bikers)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gret79

I've seen around the net - Apparently Space Marines and Chaos will get separate codex's this year, everyone else is 2018.


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## Brother Lucian

Kharn The Complainer said:


> I'm a bit confused. (the link is now non-functioning) What do you mean by no traitor legions? Are you saying that they don't get any special rules?


Kharn, use the link I provided to the collection. Still works.

Here it is again: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zdEtrRmEyelg2TkU


----------



## Khorne's Fist

New Warhammer 40,000: Battlezones
Battlezones are a new addition to the latest edition of Warhammer 40,000.

Across the many worlds of the far future, battles are fought in all sorts of deadly and exotic environments – in the depth of space, in impenetrable jungles, beneath battling starships, in the quagmire of an artillery-pounded trench network, in the heart of an etheric storm – the list goes on. Some of Warhammer 40,000’s most iconic battle have taken place in some very unusual environments. Battlezones allow you to bring these to your tabletop.

Effectively, these are special rules that can be layered over the top of any other game to represent an unusual environment. The upcoming Warhammer 40,000 book covers three of these. Night Fight, Psychic Maelstrom, and Fire and Fury. To get an idea of how these interact with the game, here’s an example, Fire and Fury – rules for battling as all hell rains down around you.



You can see that these rules will alter the way you play and position your forces, which not only gives you a new tactical challenge but is just incredibly cinematic. Picture a Black Templar assault on an Ork Rock as meteors rain down around them, or a mass regiment of Cadian Shock Troopers and the Black Legion battling over a ravaged world as their fleets battle for supremacy above. You can’t say that isn’t cool.

What’s really elegant about these is that they can be used in any mission, giving massive replayability to the (not inconsiderable number of) missions in your main Warhammer 40,000 book.

Narrative players are going to have a ball with these. Imagine running a map campaign where every location has its own Battlezone, or where players have the choice to attack at night, or with fleet support, or whatever else you can think of.

While certainly created with narrative play in mind, there’s nothing stopping this being used for other games – even matched play. If you’re looking to add just a little extra flavour to your matched play event, for example, maybe every table could have its own Battlezone rules, or maybe the first game of the day kicks off with a Night Fight game?

It’s your hobby – go nuts.


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## arthur.bobany

I've made a spreadsheet for building Necron lists on the new edition, since Necrons are pretty straightforward.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qGvU42yzTLfD1onl_VSj6DonieJZ8NLUy41ZqGiEi8s/edit?usp=sharing

Feel free to copy it and make your own, or use it as a base for other factions. It is a dirty job, but it works.


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## darkreever

arthur.bobany said:


> I've made a spreadsheet for building Necron lists on the new edition, since Necrons are pretty straightforward.


Pretty cool, and awesome work.

A buddy and I have been fooling around with making lists, we've just been making them by the power levels and then converting to points after, and evening things out after.




For example, you and your opponent decide to play a game and set the starting limit to power level 15. You take a cryptek [power 6], a unit of 5 immortals [power 4], a unit of destroyers [power 3], and a unit of scarabs [power 2]; you then convert that list to points [417]. Your opponent does the same, getting their 15 power list but its 535 points, now you have the option to either add another unit to even out the points (in this case if yes then a unit of 10 warriors) but your opponent will get an extra command point, or play as is and be rewarded with an extra command point.


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## arthur.bobany

darkreever said:


> Pretty cool, and awesome work.
> 
> A buddy and I have been fooling around with making lists, we've just been making them by the power levels and then converting to points after, and evening things out after.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For example, you and your opponent decide to play a game and set the starting limit to power level 15. You take a cryptek [power 6], a unit of 5 immortals [power 4], a unit of destroyers [power 3], and a unit of scarabs [power 2]; you then convert that list to points [417]. Your opponent does the same, getting their 15 power list but its 535 points, now you have the option to either add another unit to even out the points (in this case if yes then a unit of 10 warriors) but your opponent will get an extra command point, or play as is and be rewarded with an extra command point.


Necrons were easy due to the simplicity of their choices. If anyone wants to pick up from where I left, please do so. It is a simple sheet to be honest, but I'm sure battlescribe will be updated shortly and then all our troubles will be gone 😊


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## arthur.bobany

Question 1) I've been reading the rules for shooting into melee, and it seems like only the unit that is engaged with the target may shoot it into melee, correct?

That means, if I want to shoot into an engaged enemy, I must either fall back with my engaged units in the movement phase or shoot it with the pistols of any units already engaged into that combat.


Question 2) Unless stated on a vehicle's datasheet, units cannot anymore fire from within it, correct? I can't find anything on the rulebook that says they can. The transport lateral box claims that models can't do anything, unless otherwise stated.


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## Nin

arthur.bobany said:


> Question 1) I've been reading the rules for shooting into melee, and it seems like only the unit that is engaged with the target may shoot it into melee, correct?
> 
> That means, if I want to shoot into an engaged enemy, I must either fall back with my engaged units in the movement phase or shoot it with the pistols of any units already engaged into that combat.


That's how it looks to me as well.



> Question 2) Unless stated on a vehicle's datasheet, units cannot anymore fire from within it, correct? I can't find anything on the rulebook that says they can. The transport lateral box claims that models can't do anything, unless otherwise stated.


I found an image of the Raider stats and it has rules for models doing things under its open topped rule, so I think you're correct about this as well.


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## Nin

Khorne's Fist quoting Warhammer Community said:


> While certainly created with narrative play in mind, there’s nothing stopping this being used for other games – even matched play. If you’re looking to add just a little extra flavour to your matched play event, for example, maybe every table could have its own Battlezone rules, or maybe the first game of the day kicks off with a Night Fight game?


This actually sounds like a lot of fun. I've noticed from listening to Age of Sigmar podcasts that people really think about the battleplans in the tournament packs when deciding on an army for an event, so if you had a bunch of battlezone rules it might help with list variety as people figure out they'll need different things for a good chance at winning each match given how different they might be.

Also, that strategem for putting down all six dice for an orbital strike is awesome.


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## scscofield




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## Nin

I actually think we're going to see lots of people fall into the trap of charging with their vehicle before their squads to try to soak up overwatch and then ending up with the vehicle blocking the charge for some of the models that wanted to get in. Especially if the defender put any thought at all into model removal during the shooting phase.


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## Khorne's Fist

Oh lord...


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## scscofield

That's what happens when SM motorpools have a orgy

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## scscofield

That poor landspeeder got tag teamed by a predator and a land raider. 

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## Brother Lucian

Notice how the antigrav plates looks like the 'skates' on Primaris Inceptors?

But yeah, seems Cawl is really pulling out all the toys the mechanicum has been hoarding since the Horus Heresy.


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## Roganzar

Khorne's Fist said:


> Oh lord...
> 
> https://youtu.be/Io3RLZJYqXk


Oh you sexy metal beast. The Omnissah knew exactly what to get me for a present. Grav-tanks!!
Oooooo 01011001 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100100 01101001 01110010 01110100 01111001 00100000 01100100 01101001 01110010 01110100 01111001 00100000 01110100 01100001 01101110 01101011 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00101110 00100000 01011001 01100101 01110011 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01110011 01100101 01111000 01111001 00100000 01101000 01110101 01101110 01101011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01100001 01100100 01100001 01101101 01100001 01101110 01110100 01101001 01101110 01100101 00101110 00100000 01001101 01101101 01101101 01101101 00100000 01001001 00100111 01101101 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101110 01101110 01100001 00100000 01101111 01101111 01101111 01101111 01101111 01101000 00100000 01101111 01101111 01101111 01101111 01101111 01101000 00100000 01001111 01001111 01001111 01001111 01001111 01001111 01001111 01001111 01001000 01001000 01001000 01001000 00100001

Hmmm.. excuse me. I need to change my robes now.


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## Entarion

I like it. I will like anything they will throw at us because I found a way how to incorporate new models into my army. I am pretty excited for anything new. A lot of space for nice conversion.
I just wish it was available for pre-order tomorrow along with Redemptor dread.


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## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Thousand Sons*​

Hello again everyone, Frankie here from the SoCal Open to talk to you about the Thousand Sons. This army of powerful, heretical Sorcerers use the baleful power of the Warp and a finely honed tactical cunning to win their battles, but they have suffered a terrible curse in their ancient past as a result.

Currently, Thousand Sons are not used all that often in matched play. They have beautiful models but rules that can make them a bit complicated to use to their best advantage on the tabletop. They have an army wide invulnerable save, which makes them more resilient than most Space Marines and they have AP 3 ranged weapons, which makes it easy for them to bring down power armoured foes foolish enough to be in the open. They also have Sorcerers in each of their units allowing, them some nice psychic flexibility. Unfortunately, they cost a lot of points and so often lose out to cheaper options. Luckily for us, that is all about to change.

Thousand Sons in the new Warhammer 40,000 will be led by none other than their Primarch – Magnus the Red. This guy does justice to the lore; coming in at Toughness 7 with 18 Wounds and a 4+ invulnerable save, he is one of the toughest Characters on the battlefield. Magnus also receives +2 when casting psychic powers and can manifest 3 a turn.

He’s no slouch in close combat either, moving across the table 16″ a turn and hitting with 7, Strength 16, AP -4, attacks that do 3 Damage each – it’s enough to lay low nearly any opponent. Magnus the Red also bestows bonuses to his fellow Thousand Sons, allowing them to reroll 1s to hit and 1s rolled for invulnerable saves. This Primarch will bring glory to his Legion.

Next up, we have the Scarab Occult Terminators. Not only are they amazing models, they are quite destructive on the tabletop as well. They get the All is Dust ability, giving them +1 to their armour save if the attack has a Damage characteristic of 1 and also allowing them to ignore the -1 to hit when moving and shooting Heavy weapons.

They come with inferno combi-bolters which are Rapid Fire 2, Strength 4, AP -2. Some of them may also be armed with ranged weapons that go up to AP -3 and some that deal D3 Damage. Utilising Teleport Strike to bring these units to the tabletop will surely leave your opponent’s army in shambles.



Lastly, we will talk about the Rubric Marines. They are a little slower than non-dust Space Marines, but again, the All is Dust rule makes them hard to kill with small arms fire, so they can still survive a trek across the battlefield.

Rubric Marines come with their iconic inferno boltguns giving them AP -2, which is incredibly good. Some of them may also be armed with soulreaper cannons which are Heavy 4, Strength 5, AP -3. Or you may find yourself preferring the AP -2 flamer option which is brutally effective at close range. In any case, you will be happy with the amount of damage this unit dishes out.



As each squad has a Sorcerer with the ability to deal out mortal wounds, and the rest of the unit rains down death with their powerful arsenal, the Thousand Sons will bring honour to Tzeentch and are, for the first time in a long time, a fighting force to be truly feared.


----------



## Fallen

Roganzar said:


> 01011001 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100100 01101001 01110010 01110100 01111001 00100000 01100100 01101001 01110010 01110100 01111001 00100000 01110100 01100001 01101110 01101011 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00101110 00100000 01011001 01100101 01110011 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01110011 01100101 01111000 01111001 00100000 01101000 01110101 01101110 01101011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01100001 01100100 01100001 01101101 01100001 01101110 01110100 01101001 01101110 01100101 00101110 00100000 01001101 01101101 01101101 01101101 00100000 01001001 00100111 01101101 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101110 01101110 01100001 00100000 01101111 01101111 01101111 01101111 01101111 01101000 00100000 01101111 01101111 01101111 01101111 01101111 01101000 00100000 01001111 01001111 01001111 01001111 01001111 01001111 01001111 01001111 01001000 01001000 01001000 01001000 00100001





scscofield said:


> That poor landspeeder got tag teamed by a predator and a land raider.


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## scscofield




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## scscofield




----------



## Old Man78

Khorne's Fist said:


> Oh lord...
> 
> https://youtu.be/Io3RLZJYqXk


Yeah I'll be thinking of this next time I sleep with the wife!


----------



## Khorne's Fist

The more I look at it the more I see a giant snowmobile. If I ever get one I might leave those front skids off.


----------



## Roganzar

Khorne's Fist said:


> The more I look at it the more I see a giant snowmobile. If I ever get one I might leave those front skids off.


No front skids???


----------



## Lord of the Night

Khorne's Fist said:


> Next up, we have the Scarab Occult Terminators. Not only are they amazing models, they are quite destructive on the tabletop as well. They get the All is Dust ability, giving them +1 to their armour save if the attack has a Damage characteristic of 1 and also allowing them to ignore the -1 to hit when moving and shooting Heavy weapons.
> 
> They come with inferno combi-bolters which are Rapid Fire 2, Strength 4, AP -2. Some of them may also be armed with ranged weapons that go up to AP -3 and some that deal D3 Damage. Utilising Teleport Strike to bring these units to the tabletop will surely leave your opponent’s army in shambles.


So against regular Bolters which only have a 1 Damage characteristic a Scarab Occult Terminator gets a 1+ Save, effectively making them invulnerable to anything that isn't heavier than a base weapon. AWESOME!!!!


LotN


----------



## scscofield

Rolls of 1 always fail.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Shandathe

Still pretty awesome though. Might not stop Lascannons or Meltaguns any better but it's some rather fantastic AP mitigation against the likes of Necron gauss weapons (or other Thousand Sons) and forces a commitment of the heaviest weaponry if an enemy wants to get rid of them.


----------



## Gret79

Forge world have released contents pages for their new books. 
No Bran Redmaw and no Sonic dread. 
Well... fuck. 
I spent ages making my redmaw. And now I'll never get to use the dread. But never mind, here's the link
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/FW-Home?mobile=true


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## Haskanael

pre ordered the new stuff, got a look at Index: Imperium 2 and sad to see that the Vendetta is gone from the Imperial guard units.


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## Shandathe

@Haskanael , they only moved it to FW. The Vendetta is in the upcoming Imperial Armour Index: Forces of the Astra Militarum, as can be seen here in that content page @Gret79 talked about. It's actually logical because that's where the Vendetta guns come from 

There's a number of other interesting things in the Imperial Armour books, for me I especially noted the continuing presence of the (not-been-available-for-ages-despite-promises) Repressor.


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## Haskanael

Shandathe said:


> @Haskanael , they only moved it to FW. The Vendetta is in the upcoming Imperial Armour Index: Forces of the Astra Militarum, as can be seen here in that content page @Gret79 talked about. It's actually logical because that's where the Vendetta guns come from


I agree that in a way it makes sense. but in another point of view, the vendetta has been in two main rulebooks and now people have to cash out for another rulebook for only one unit in a bunch of cases.


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## scscofield




----------



## Kharn The Complainer

Old Man78 said:


> Yeah I'll be thinking of this next time I sleep with the wife!


That is something I'm going to turn into a separate tangential thread in the pointless boasting thread. You've just reminded me of the most weird things I've thought about whilst having sex and i have the urge to share.


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## Aalidakh

Kharn The Complainer said:


> That is something I'm going to turn into a separate tangential thread in the pointless boasting thread. You've just reminded me of the most weird things I've thought about whilst having sex and i have the urge to share.


During particularly vigorous lovemaking, I always recite the names of the primarchs in my head.

It keeps me focused.

Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk


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## Old Man78

Aalidakh said:


> During particularly vigorous lovemaking, I always recite the names of the primarchs in my head.
> 
> It keeps me focused.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk


In the words of Ross Geller "sharing not scaring!"


----------



## tirnaog

For those who have gone thru all the leaks and such.
Is there any way that ye see to make a Iyanden army?

I have not seen anything that seems to say this is possible.
WraithGuard as Troop choice.

Will we have to wait for the codex?


----------



## Shandathe

tirnaog said:


> For those who have gone thru all the leaks and such.
> Is there any way that ye see to make a Iyanden army?
> 
> I have not seen anything that seems to say this is possible.
> WraithGuard as Troop choice.
> 
> Will we have to wait for the codex?


No need to wait. Wraithguard are Elite, so you can simply fill out a Vanguard detachment (1-2 HQ, 3-6 Elite, similar allowances for HS/FA) instead of the usual Troop-based detachments. You'll get a few less command points, at worst. :grin:


----------



## Roganzar

Aalidakh said:


> During particularly vigorous lovemaking, I always recite the names of the primarchs in my head.
> 
> It keeps me focused.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk


I've a question here. In order or not?


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Roganzar said:


> In order or not?


In what order do you mean? Alphabetically, by Legion number, in order of how they were found? I too am intrigued now.


----------



## Roganzar

Khorne's Fist said:


> In what order do you mean? Alphabetically, by Legion number, in order of how they were found? I too am intrigued now.


Meant exactly as written. 

*Breaks out dataslate and autoquill to record results*


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## Old Man78

Haha, and changes position when gets to the "lost" primarchs


----------



## tirnaog

Thanks.

after looking some more I think your right.
Vanguard might be the best fit I think.


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## Brother Lucian

*https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/04/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-imperial-agents/
*

*
*

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Imperial Agents*


_We have Reecius, from the SoCal Open, back again today to discuss some of the Imperium’s more specialised agents and warriors: the Inquisition, Officio Assassinorum and Adepta Sororitas._
_Reece helps runs some of the biggest independent Warhammer 40,000 events in the world, including the Las Vegas Open and the recently announced Southern California Open. Like Frankie, he’s also been part of the playtest team for the new edition of Warhammer 40,000, putting in hundreds of hours to make sure this new edition will be great for all you gamers out there (Thanks Reece!)._
_He knows what he’s talking about when it comes to Warhammer 40,000, so let’s see what he has so say…_










Previously, these factions ranged in efficancy on the tabletop and some of them were very rarely seen, such as Adepta Sororitas – apart from Celestine had a surge in popularity recently. The Inquisition was a bit of a mixed bag, with Coteaz making or a solo Inquisitor with Servo Skulls making occasional visits to the battlefield, but not much more. However, that is all about to change.










The Officio Assassinorum particularly have had quite a ramp up. They all come in at very reasonable points costs for matched play and have interesting and fun abilities. The Vindicare is a truly deadly sniper with his ability to ignore cover and invulnerable saves on a gun that is AP -3 and always wounds Infantry on a 2+ with D3 damage (or D6 on a 6 to wound!). However, the award for most improved goes to the Eversor, who’s always been my favourite of the Assassins. He now can appear from reserves anywhere on the table more than 9″ away from enemy models but charges 3D6″. When combined with Command Points, he has a very high likelihood of making a charge from reserves and when he arrives, and in melee he packs a wallop!










The Inquisition also offers a lot of tools for the Imperial player’s arsenal. Many of the same faces are there still, and Coteaz particularly still offers up a great toolset, although it is now much more focused in application. His rule Spy Network (similar to his older rule, I’ve Been Expecting You) now allows you to fire on an enemy unit that is deployed after the game begins — such as Terminators coming in via Teleport Strike — but only with a friendly Inquisition unit within 6″ of him. However, as almost no other units in the game have this ability, it is quite a powerful tactical advantage. A unit of Jokaero Weaponsmiths or Acolytes with plasma guns can make short work of a unit that your opponent thought would be positioned to pounce!
The most exciting part of this article though, I have saved for last. The Adepta Sororitas are absolutely fantastic in the new version of Warhammer 40,000. 












They now boast some powerful tools such as their Iconic rule, Acts of Faith which triggers on a 2+ roll at the beginning of your turn. If you pass, one of your units gets to use an Act of Faith which ranges from a free move, free shooting phase, free round of melee, or the regeneration of D3 wounds for a previously slain model in a unit. This gives you a huge amount of efficiency and flexibility from your units. They all have the very good Shield of Faith rule which not only gives you a 6+ invulnerable save but allows a limited version of Deny the Witch to every unit with it. 
That said, a single Act of Faith would seem a bit limiting, right? Well fret not, you can get as many as you want. Celestine grants an automatic Act of Faith to a unit within 6″. Imagifiers also grant you an additional Act of Faith to a unit within 6″ on a 4+. This gives you a scalable strategy to get the most out of your very awesome special rules.











Speaking of Celestine, she is absolutely incredible. She boosts the Shield of Faith save of nearby Adepta Sororitas units by 1 (typically to a 5+ invulnerable save). Combine this with the Seraphim Squad’s Angelic Visage special rule to re-roll their Shield of Faith save and you have some tough cookies! Celestine also comes with regenerating bodyguards, the Geminae Superia and if that were not enough, once per game after being slain, she can come back with full health on a 2+ roll. She is a phenomenal character and will be seen in nearly every Adepta Sororitas collection.










Adepta Sororitas also benefit from some powerful vehicles. The Immolator especially is incredible. It not only transports 6 models but also packs a mean weapon, the immolation flamer, which has the standard flamer style rule with auto-hits, with 2D6 Strength 5, AP -1 shots with a 12″ range. But, even better, it is an Assault weapon, meaning the vehicle can advance and still fire! That is truly powerful in the new Warhammer 40,000. Combine this with a Dominion Squad with 4 meltaguns and you have a potent combination of anti infantry and anti tank/monster firepower.










The Penitent Engine is another potent vehicle dramatically improved from previous versions. They are improved on a basic level due to the changes to how vehicles work, and they are no longer in danger of getting taken out from a single shot in most cases. Defence aside, they really shine in the offence department. With 2 heavy flamers, they can plow through units and have excellent overwatch capabilities. In melee, they get 4 Attacks at Strength 10, AP -3 dealing 3 Damage each. But where it really gets crazy is when they pile in and attack again in combat on a 4+! Save a Command Point re-roll for this bad boy and watch this unit tear enemy units to shreds.










There’s much more to discuss, but suffice it to say that the forces of the Imperium have a wide variety of tools available to them with these excellent factions!


----------



## Roganzar

Well, I guess, since I have the assassins from Execution Force I'll use them to support my Mechanicus. I'm enjoying the mental image I have of dropping the Eversor in the middle of an opponent's HQ and wrecking havoc followed by the Vindicare cleaning up whatever is still standing.


----------



## Shandathe

I got a chance to play some 8th with my Sisters today. Probably not quite representative, given that I felt I had the Emperor's own luck at some points, but I can make a good number of observations:

-Point costs seem very well done. Nothing disappointed for its cost, nothing seemed like an auto-win, and the same went for my opponents. Small games and I didn't even play all the Ministorum units yet so very limited sample size, but still. So far so good.
-Units still largely play like I expected them to in 7th. 
-Flamers are distinctly less effective than before, and unreliable, but at least they're cheap. This goes with the next observation:
-While a bonus of 1 to the save may not seem like much, added to the new AP rules it makes Guardsmen placed in a building/forest/crater remarkably survivable.
-Consolidate move is now part of Fight phase, so if your enemy just walks away in their Movement phase you don't get to make one and you're stuck out in the open.
-Speaking of Consolidate move, not sure why it's even still there. It seems kinda useless this way, especially with the new Wound Allocation (controlling player chooses) meaning you don't have to rotate expensive models out of the line of fire.
-Vehicles take a ton of killing. Bring the anti-tank, you're going to need it. Rather wish we had a few big weapons that did something like 2d3 instead of 1d6 for a more reliable damage curve.
-New Acts of Faith of the Sisters are far more dangerous than the old set ever was. Toss an extra Fight phase on a Canoness (with an Eviscerator) or Celestine herself, toss an extra Shooting phase on a unit with 4 Melta weapons, or get a double move... or a model back, if you don't have anything better to do. That seems like a better job for a cheap Hospitaller, though. 
-Imagifiers (and others with abilities that go off start of turn) don't mix well with Transports.
-Necron Quantum Shielding is utter bullshit. Don't want to call it as stupidly broken yet, but... "Each time this model suffers damage from an unsaved wound, roll a D6. If the result is less than the damage inflicted by the attack, the damage is ignored" makes it very, very difficult to get rid of the 14 wounds on a Ghost/Doomsday Ark as any big hits likely get negated.
EDIT, forgot:
-Dammit Veridyan, where did you go? You only just GOT here.


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## Khorne's Fist




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## Roganzar




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## scscofield




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## Khorne's Fist

Saw this today. One of the most exciting things about this edition for me is the ability to run your FW minis, no questions asked. However, the fact that a Spartan can take centurions but not Primaris is a bit odd.

*Forge World Preview: Indexes​*

We saw quite a few upcoming new models last week at Warhammer Fest, so for this week’s Forge World preview, we thought we’d take a look at some of the new Datasheets in the Imperial Armour Index books – one from the Forces of the Adeptus Astartes and one from the Forces of Chaos.

Let’s start off with a true relic of the Horus Heresy, the Spartan tank.










We’ve seen the Land Raider already, and this thing is even tougher, killier and carries more guys. Those quad-lascannons are going to be able to take down pretty much anything over a few turns of firing, and that’s without even considering the fact that these things usually pack a complement of Adeptus Astartes elite combat troops inside.

Next up, let’s look at the Brass Scorpion.










This enormous Daemon Engine is a terror at close range. If you can get it in amongst the enemy army, it will flip battle tanks, shred infantry and pretty much just crush anything it can reach! Snip snip.

So there you go, a bit of a taste of what’s to come in those books.

Both Imperial Armour Index: Forces of the Adeptus Astartes and Imperial Armour Index: Forces of Chaos are available to order now.


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## scscofield

They are attempting to force ppl to buy the LandPredRaider love child.


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## Old Man78

scscofield said:


> They are attempting to force ppl to buy the LandPredRaider love child.


But can "normal" marines ride is said love child? If not, it may not end up on my teetering sprue pile


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## Roganzar

Old Man78 said:


> scscofield said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are attempting to force ppl to buy the LandPredRaider love child.
> 
> 
> 
> But can "normal" marines ride is said love child? If not, it may not end up on my teetering sprue pile
Click to expand...

The Leaning Tower of Sprues?
The whole thing with Primaris not able to get into the tanks is weird and probably to help push the sexraider tank. But lore wise I want a reason. Are their butts just to big? Are they huge snobs? What is the reason for this silliness????


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## Khorne's Fist

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Harlequins

Harlequins are one of the most flavourful factions in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. They’re the Aeldari followers of Cegorach, the Laughing God. Arch-enemies of Chaos, they represent hope for the future of the Aeldari, recruiting from all factions of their race and remaining safe from the hunger of Slaanesh. They’re also defenders of the webway and the Black Library*, ensuring that the priceless information held within never falls into the wrong hands. In the last edition of Warhammer 40,0000, using a Harlequin army could be pretty tricky – they tended to be a glass hammer, hitting very hard but with no ability to take the punches back.



The Harlequin armies in the new Warhammer 40,000 are true close combat masters and will be bouncing around the field with their flip belts, which allow them to ignore terrain and other models when moving. The other half of their incredible mobility comes in Rising Crescendo, which allows them to advance and charge, or charge even after falling back. This makes them extremely mobile when combined with their Move characteristic of 8”.



Harlequin Troupes individually are the equal of other faction’s heroes in melee, but their real power comes in the synergy they have with their characters, such as the Shadowseer. This model has 5 Wounds and packs a punch, with his Miststave granting +2 Strength, -1 AP, and D3 Damage. But the real reason you take this beast is for his ability Shield from Harm, which makes your opponent subtract 1 from the wound rolls for any attacks made against friendly Harlequin infantry units. This makes those Toughness 3 models vastly more resilient and means even a Lascannon needs a 3+ to wound a basic Troupe member. Combine that with the fact your entire army has invulnerable saves thanks to their holo-suits, and you’ll find these warrior-dancers can prove surprisingly resilient.



Next up we have my personal favourite Harlequin hero, the Solitaire. This character is a blender made manifest. He moves 12” normally and has 8 Attacks. He can either swing with his Harlequin’s Caress which does 1 wound at Strength 5, AP -2, or his Harlequin’s Kiss which does D3 Damage at Strength 4, AP -1. He also has a 3+ invulnerable save, which is extremely good and pretty rare to find on such a fast-moving unit. However, the truly juicy ability he has that sets him apart from the rest is Blitz. The Blitz ability allows you to move an extra 2D6” and gain 2 Attacks once per game. With the fact your army can advance and charge, that’s a potential 30” move! Combined with the ability to leap and flip through enemy ranks, he can easily charge past screening units and mince vulnerable backfield support characters. If your opponent isn’t careful, the Solitaire will leave a trail of destruction in his wake.

Lastly let’s talk about what I feel is one of the, if not the, best transports in the game. The Starweaver moves 16”, has Toughness 5, 6 Wounds, a 4+ invulnerable save and the ever-useful Fly keyword. Fly on an open topped transport equates to greatness and is the envy of the lesser races’ transports which crawl along the ground and get bogged down. The thing that keeps this vehicle alive though is the Mirage Launchers, which make your opponent subtract 1 from any hit rolls made against this model in the shooting phase. These vehicles put your deadly Harlequins where you want them on the table and are surprisingly resilient.

Harlequins are one of the strongest armies I have played in Warhammer 40,000. They move so fast and hit like trucks in close combat while also packing a surprising close ranged sting in the shooting phase, too. I hope all of you have been practising painting diamonds, as Harlequins will be a tremendously fun army to play.


The full rules for Harlequins in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 can be found in Index: Xenos 1. If that has inspired you to give these Guardians of the Black Library a go on the tabletop, start your army off with a Troupe of Harlequins, who are, quite unsurprisingly, a Troops choice in a Harlequins army…

*The one that’s in the webway, not the guys who make books in Nottingham – Ed.


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## scscofield

.









Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## koosbeer

scscofield said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


Excellent!


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## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Ynnari*​
The Ynnari represent hope for the Aeldari. By harnessing the power of death, they have brought a renewed sense of purpose to their dying race. But how will they fare in the new Warhammer 40,000?

Previously, Ynnari created quite a splash in the Warhammer 40,000 world for their incredible ability to enable units to act multiple times in the same turn. Wraithknights doing anything twice was incredibly potent. When backed by the rest of the hyper points-efficient Aeldari faction, you had a powerful combination.

In new Warhammer 40,000 Ynnari are still a force to be reckoned with but have had some sensible limitations placed on them. Their signature ability, Strength from Death, now only works on Infantry, Bikers and the Yncarne (sorry Mr. Wraithknight). What it does allow you to do, though, is incredible. Each time a unit is completely destroyed within 7” of one or more units with this ability – except in the Morale phase – pick one of those units to make a Soulburst action. These allow you to move, cast a psychic power, shoot, charge or fight. Pretty spectacular.










They also allow you to form an army from multiple Aeldari sub-factions and use the Ynnari keyword instead. Only the Haemonculus Covens are excluded from joining the Ynnari. Lastly, Ynnari characters can ride in other Aeldari transports – which is quite good, as they all have access to some excellent methods of transportation.

The ability to pick such a wide variety of units is the real strength of this faction. You can make a lore-accurate army, for example, comprised of Fire Dragons, Incubi, and Harlequins. This immense flexibility gives you all of the tools you need to build a well rounded and deadly force.

One of my favourite combos is to use the Word of the Phoenix psychic power on a unit that has already moved to let it Soulburst and move again to get in position to either shoot or charge. With the speed of most Aeldari units, this gives a massive threat bubble. If you position a supporting unit well, if the first unit destroys their target, the support unit can then soulburst, too. This cascading effect can create utterly lethal combinations.

Ynnari will be a popular flavour of Aeldari in new Warhammer 40,000 and continue to provide incredible force multiplication capabilities.


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## Roganzar

You know, if I was going to do an Eldar, sorry I mean Aeldari army this is how I'd go about it. The wide breadth of models that you can use. As well as the kit bashing that you can do to make them look rather unique is enticing. *slaps own hand to stop self from thinking of more projects* 
Their Strength from Death thing could be troublesome to use but powerful if used correctly.
Color me intrigued in their heretek equipment and tactics. 
*slaps hands again to try and stop thinking of projects* 
*voices in head whisper "Its not working"*


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## Brother Lucian

Would pure aeldari or drukhari armies be able to compete with this 'kitbash' faction?


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## Shandathe

Likely. Soulburst has been limited to a more sane level now, and Strength From Death still replaces Craftworlds' Ancient Doom and the more important Battle Focus, as well as the Harlequin's Rising Crescendo and the Drukhari's Power From Pain. 

So it's a trade, and while Soulburst has fantastic potential to domino double actions over the battlefield, it's hard to set up and can fail miserably. It's generally less reliable than what's given up though if it works, it's more powerful, so... balances out, more or less. 

Note the Adepta Sororitas can do the extra Move/Shoot/Fight phase as well (but they obviously have no Psykers, and instead of Charge they get a heal). Their Act of Faith version is arguably more dangerous than Strength from Death, as with Celestine in there they're nearly guaranteed two a turn, but it costs them a good amount of points to scale up and doesn't do so reliably.

As for mixing and matching the various Eldar factions, the Aeldari keyword is common to ALL Eldar factions, so you can fill out your detachment(s) with units from Craftworld, Harlies and Dark Eldar ANYWAY...


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## jamesvalentine

too many unfunny memes to even remotely take this thread serious any more


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## scscofield

jamesvalentine said:


> too many unfunny memes to even remotely take this thread serious any more












Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## scscofield

Since it hits at the end of the week I think the 'rumours' are pretty much done.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## ntaw

Add to that basically everything has been leaked. Maybe there will be Faction Focus articles for the remaining Imperium armies that we already know all the rules for...?

I have heard rumours that all armies will have Codex books by Christmas but damn that's a hell of a release schedule.


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## Haskanael

ntaw said:


> Add to that basically everything has been leaked. Maybe there will be Faction Focus articles for the remaining Imperium armies that we already know all the rules for...?
> 
> I have heard rumours that all armies will have Codex books by Christmas but damn that's a hell of a release schedule.


I hope they maintain the index books on the side. I realy realy hope so.


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## ntaw

The contents of the Index books will be slowly invalidated as Codex books are released. GW has announced a once a year Chapter Approved book (first one around December this year), I think that a portion at least of it will be set aside to address rules and point changes as this edition evolves.


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## Khorne's Fist

*Forge World Index: Xenos Preview
*​Last week, we had a look at some of the new rules for the Forge World miniatures covered in Imperial Armour Index: Space Marines and Imperial Armour Index: Chaos.

Today we take a look at some units from Imperial Armour Index: Xenos.

We’ll start off with a Tyranid, one of the most popular Forge World additions to the hive fleet forces in the last edition due to both its durability, synapse and protective gas-cloud aura – the Malanthrope. We can see from the range of useful abilities this guy has, he’ll likely still be seen in many forces.








Next up, the Ork Meka-Dread. With the increase in vehicle durability, and the deadliness of combat, Ork Dread-based armies become a very viable option, and this bruiser is the guy you want at the front of the charge:








Our final preview is of the XV109 Y’vahra Battlesuit. This highly mobile cousin of the Riptide dishes out just as much devastating firepower as he did last edition, so you’ll still see plenty of these advanced Battlesuits on the battlefield.








All these of these units, as well as the full Tyranid, T’au Empire, Ork, Aeldari and Necron ranges of Forge World models are covered in the upcoming Imperial Armour Index: Xenos, available soon and designed to be used with the new edition of Warhammer 40,000.


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## darkreever

That'd be a bit better than the way it was. Now even if your codec somehow manages to not get updated for 5-10 years (DE and sisters) a yearly or biannually chapter approved with updates overall is a good move.


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## Khorne's Fist

Worth looking at just to get a closer look at the sprue.


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## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Adeptus Mechanicus*​
These cybernetic warriors are known for their cold logic, colder hearts and esoteric weaponry. Their armies have typically been seen in the War Convocation formation, formed around an Imperial Knight and a variety of different units and loads of “free” wargear. They’re a powerful army and remain so in the new Warhammer 40,000. The forces of the Adeptus Mechanicus will have armies of Robots, cyborgs, warrior priests of the machine god and Belisarius Cawl himself.

So, first off, let’s talk about Belisarius Cawl. He is one of the most detailed and characterful models Games Workshop has ever made and looks amazing on the tabletop. His rules are equally impressive. He gives friendly Martian units within 6″ a re-roll to hit in the Shooting phase, similar to a Space Marine Chapter Master.










He also lets you add or subtract 1 when you roll on the Canticle chart every turn which is incredible. He’s no slouch in shooting either with a gun that can potentially do 18 damage! Any big ticket unit will come to fear Cawl. Overall, he is one of the most solid HQ’s in the new Warhammer 40,000 and will be leading many Martian Adeptus Mechanicus armies.










Next, we have a unit that wasn’t used much in the previous edition: the Electro Priests. Both the close combat and shooting versions are solid choices now with impressive damage output. The shooting version (Corpuscarii) gives you mass amounts of shots that explode on a 6+ to hit. And be aware that if you can get a +1 to hit, you get the bonus hits on the roll of a 5 or 6 – especially if you’re standing next to a Character that lets you re-roll hits.










The Fulgurite, or close combat flavour of Electro-Priest can do mortal wounds on the wound roll of a 6+, which is tremendously powerful. Both units have a 5+ invulnerable save and an additional 5+ “Feel no Pain” style save for every wound they take. They are an excellent backfield protection unit that come in at a reasonable price point.

Wait – I mentioned cyborgs, didn’t I? Well, let’s talk about the Ironstrider Ballistarii. These models have a 6+ invulnerable save, 6 Wounds and Toughness 6, which makes them tough targets to take down. The main reason to take these models, though, is their fire power. You can take them in a unit of 1-6, and each can be armed with a Twin Cognis autocannon, which is 4 shots at Strength 7 AP -1 and 2 Damage. Or my personal favourite, the Twin Cognis Lascannon, which is two shots at Strength 9 AP -3 and D6 Damage. The melee version, the Dragoons, are also fantastic with exploding 6’s to hit on their weapons and a high movement. But the key for either flavour of these guys is they are very points efficient. You will see many of them in Adeptus Mechanicus armies.

Lastly, let’s talk about the Kastelan Robots. These models are monsters and can shoot twice or swing twice in close combat or even get +1 to their saves due to their suite of special abilities. They are Toughness 7, 6 Wounds a piece and are quick with an 8″ move. The Kastelan fists are +4 Strength, -3 AP and do 3 Damage with each swing meaning you do not want to find yourself engaging in fisticuffs with these guys. They can also be equipped with Heavy Phosphor Blasters which, when shot twice, will put a ton of damage down the field. These robots are great at taking mid table and holding it for the entire game, fending off enemy units.










The Adeptus Mechanicus are a great army in new Warhammer 40,000 and are not only very fun to play but also to play against. Now replace those weak fleshy parts of your body and prepare to give homage to the Omnissiah!


EDIT: Just had a look at the GW store. It looks like they've rolled the skitarri into the AdMech page, which makes sense. I never agreed with them being split into separate armies.


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## Roganzar

Khorne's Fist said:


> EDIT: Just had a look at the GW store. It looks like they've rolled the skitarri into the AdMech page, which makes sense. I never agreed with them being split into separate armies.


This is thing that makes me happy. It's about time they put those together. 
Honestly, I thought they'd have done it sooner but I'll take it.

Also, looking forward to getting my greedy hands on the new edition in 4 days. It's the first chance I've had to play at all in months. It's like an itch you can't scratch. 
Hmm?
I think I should have that bit of organics replaced. Cuts down on itching.


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## Brother Lucian

https://www.warhammer-community.com...-40000-faction-focus-non-codex-space-marines/

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Non-Codex Space Marines*


_With the release of the brand new Warhammer 40,000 this weekend, Reece visits the Space Marine Chapters who take the principles of the Codex Astartes somewhat less seriously than some of their brothers._










*Reece:* Today we’re going to explore the savage Space Wolves, furious Blood Angels and taciturn Dark Angels as well as touch on some of what to expect with Grey Knights and Deathwatch. We’ve got a lot to go over, so let’s get to it!
The Adeptus Astartes are _the_ iconic faction in the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium. For many players, they are the first thing that comes to mind when one thinks about Warhammer 40,000. But there are more than just the Chapters of Space Marines who largely follow the Codex Astartes, there are many non-codex Chapters, too. Some of which are renowned for not only their independent natures but also their accomplishments in battle. 
I have always had a soft spot in my heart for the First Legion; the Dark Angels. My first miniature was a Dark Angels Captain from way back when. The Dark Angels have had a long and storied history in the lore but a bumpy ride in terms of their performance on the tabletop. They’ve often struggled to find their niche when compared to Chapters like Blood Angels and Space Wolves, who are fairly easily defined in comparison to Codex Chapters and have often been top contenders.











Dark Angels in new Warhammer 40,000 are simply exceptional. They have so many tools, so many different ways to play effectively, that the Dark Angels player’s biggest problem will be choosing which of his units to use! Azrael, Chapter Master of the Dark Angels, is hands down one of my favourite characters in the game now. He’s got a plethora of tools with his only shortcoming being his relatively slow speed – but even that is easily mitigated by using a Transport vehicle. What he provides though, is fantastic. He gives Dark Angels models within 6″ a 4+ invulnerable save which by itself is incredible. But on top of that, as with other Chapter Masters, he gives a ‘re-roll misses’ aura that works in the Shooting and Fight phases for friendly Dark Angels. Additionally, he grants you a bonus Command Point and packs an almighty wallop in both shooting and melee.










He is just one of many character options available to the Dark Angels player as well. Dark Angels also have a host of specialised units to choose from. Deathwing Knights are one of my favourite melee units available to any Space Marines Chapter, and Black Knights as ever, will strike fear into your opponent with their vicious Plasma Talons and Corvus Hammers.










Similarly, Blood Angels distinguish themselves through their unique units and special rules. What I love about Blood Angels is the wide variety of auras they can overlap on units to take them from good to great. For example, Death Company who begin with base 2 Attacks, and gain 1 on the charge, can get another Attack using the Blood Angels psychic power Unleash Rage for a total of 4. On top of that, a Sanguinary Priest can give them +1 Strength with his aura. Astorath provides further bonuses with an aura that lets them ignore morale, and provides re-rolls to hit in the Fight phase. But wait, there’s more! The Sanguinor can give them _another_ Attack with his aura…wow. You can end up with Death Company boasting 5 Attacks each on the charge, re-rolling hits at Strength 5. Give them Power Swords and nearly nothing in the game will survive a full strength charge from them. A truly scary unit.











Space Wolves have options galore but I am immediately drawn to their exceptional troops. Both Grey Hunters and Blood Claws provide great utility. Grey Hunters have the unique ability to take a boltgun, bolt pistol and chainsword for every model, making them very flexible. They can take 2 special weapons in a 10-man squad (in addition to a plasma pistol on another Grey Hunter) and a combi-weapon on the Pack Leader, meaning they also pack a punch at range. The Wolf Standard lets you re-roll 1’s when you advance or charge for greater speed and, if you want, hey, you can put the Pack Leader in Terminator armour, too!










Blood Claws are similarly fantastic and make your choice to fill Troops slots a tough one. While they cannot take a boltgun, they do come standard with a chainsword and bolt pistol and can be taken in squads of up to 15 to really maximise the oomph of your bonus auras. They also get +1 Attack on the charge while still retaining a 3+ to hit in melee – they deliver a lot of punishment for a low price tag. A Wolf Priest who grants re-rolls to hit in melee and a Leadership boost goes exceptionally well with these hotheaded warriors.










There is still so much to talk about but we’re running out of space. I will give you a little information on the Deathwatch and Grey Knights, though. The Deathwatch remain a force all about customisation and flexibility. Their Special Issue Ammunition lets them take down xenos scum of any variety.










Grey Knights have incredible damage output. Nearly all of them are Psykers, able to deal mortal wounds, and pack around double the firepower of a standard Space Marine. In melee, they wield deadly Force weapons which can cut down even the foulest of enemies.










Unfortunately, that is all of our time for this article. Hopefully, the information provided piqued your interest in these non-Codex Chapters as they are all characterful and tremendously enjoyable to play.


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## jamesvalentine

mmm yes hilarious...*yawn*


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## Brother Lucian

Seems like character-hunting snipers will become -extremely- popular, especially versus armies with very high reliance on buff-bots.


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## Khorne's Fist

I was intending on trading off the Nurgle minis, but the more I look at them the more I'm thinking they might just become the main force I collect out of this box.


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## Khorne's Fist

*Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Talons of the Emperor​*
Hello everyone, Frankie from SoCal Open here to finish off our faction focused reviews with the ever-loyal warriors of the Adeptus Custodes and Sisters of Silence! I was one of the playtesters for Warhammer 40,000 and help run several of the largest Games Workshop gaming events in the world! Suffice it to say, I love these games and enjoy showing them to other people. But enough about me, let’s get to it.

The Custodes are the warriors trusted with guarding the Emperor and the Golden Throne. They are more powerful than the Space Marines and are constantly at war with Daemons, which has kept them fairly preoccupied for the past 10,000 years. They are said to be forged from the Emperor’s own gene-seed and can take on entire armies on their own. These mighty warriors were only recently available in Warhammer 40,000, but let’s take a closer look at how they will perform in the new Warhammer 40,000.

First up, we have the Custodian Guard themselves. These guys are monsters coming in with Toughness and Strength 5 with 3 Wounds and a 2+ Save. They are basically small characters running around the table with their guardian spears or sentinel blades. Both of these are AP -3 and do D3 Damage which makes these guys very scary in close combat. Their ranged weapons are also quite good, being AP -1 and dealing 2 Damage. The Custodes also inspire all other Imperial units and give them a re-rolls to morale if within 6” of the Custodes Vexilla. As in the lore, these mighty warriors will wade into the worst of the enemy’s fire, shrug it off, and then cut them down with blade and bolter!








​The Custodes also have a Venerable Contemptor Dreadnaught in their arsenal. The Dreadnaught starts off with a BS and WS of 2+ and 10 Wounds. You can either arm it with a multi-melta or a Kheres pattern assault cannon which is Strength 7 and AP -1 with a LOT of shots. It also has a 5+ Invulnerable save and a 6+ ignore-all-wounds style save to back that up. This Dreadnaught is truly fearsome and, in addition to being a gorgeous model, serves an important function of providing mid-range fire support to the advancing Custodes.








Lastly, we have the Custodes’ Venerable Land Raider. This Land Raider has a BS of 2+ which makes it a little deadlier than even other Imperial Land Raiders, who already loom large on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium. As if a 2+ Save on a Toughness 8 model wasn’t enough, it also has a 5+ invulnerable save and a 6+ ignore-all-wounds rule which makes it the most resilient Land Raider we have seen so far. This is the perfect vehicle to transport your Custodes and, in most cases, will get them up the field safely so they can spread the good word of the Emperor….or just smash things to bits!

The Sisters of Silence provide even more fantastic tools to the Imperial player. They come with the Psychic Abomination ability, which has a stacking weakening effect on enemy psykers, giving them up to a -4 to manifest psychic powers. That really diminishes the psychic capabilities which many lists rely on for their strategies, such as Chaos units moving a unit twice with Warp Time, etc.








​Beyond this, Sisters of Silence also reroll failed wound rolls against units with the Psyker keyword and pack some serious firepower. They’ve got a choice of bolters, swords or flamers in the three infantry units available to them. If the unit is equipped with bolters, they can also opt to target enemy Psyker Characters even if they’re not the closest unit with their Prosecution Protocols rule.

Well, thank you all for joining us on this journey with the faction focused articles. We hope you all enjoyed them and are as excited about the new Warhammer 40,000 as we are. Happy gaming!


EDIT: I'm a little disappointed it appears they aren't going to roll the FW stuff into this list, rather than having to wait on the relevant FW supplement for them. Considering there's only three units for Custodes with 40k rules, would it have been hard to add the FW contemptor options, like the halberd or sword and shield, into this list?


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## Lord of the Night

Mine arrived this morning and it's absolutely stunning! Now I just need to get the Death Guard Green spray and the few paints for my Primaris scheme and i'm ready to go.


LotN


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## scscofield

So 8th is not a rumor now, it is reality. Go out and make new content. Thread closed.


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