# Should I come back?



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Short story, simple question: Should I come back to playing WHF? 

Okay, to elaborate the full story; 

I had been an accomplished 40k player for 3-4 years when I decided to take up WHF because many of my friends and fellow gamers also played. My interest was immediately drawn to Tomb Kings seeingas they were so remeniscent of my 40k faves the necrons. :grin: 

However, the local GW staff and my fellow gamers told me that I would be better suited to starting with a different army at the time because TK were very uncompetitive compared with what was out there. This was a few years back now, back before 8E was released. On their advice, I went with Lizardmen instead, them being a close second fave and having access to a far more solid list build and magic. 

My early attempts to learn did not fair well. Having been so well accustomed to the _roll dice and giggle_ aspect of 40k I found the uber cometitive nature of the system far too difficult to grasp or enjoy. I tried numerous times to design a list for lizards that would work, even having veteran lizard players help me out in that regard, but even so my success was extremely limited. 

To date, I have won a total of three games. I remember those three from the rest because they`re all I ever won. 

Disheartened with them, I thought I`d bite the bullet and try Tomb Kings anyway. This was still under 7E, and as you can guess, my games fared even worse. 

You can say I was just a bad player and you`d be right. I simply don`t have the same mind for WHF as I do for 40k.

But now, a new edition of WHF is out. I heard it was far more random in nature, and that a lot of the elitist competitive jerks were crying about their insta win lists no longer working. For me, this was like a massive beacon crying _Come back Serpion! Come back!_ 

And so I did. With newly revised Lizardmen and a new edition of the game, I started to play again. And I enjoyed the new system, but the fact remained that my fave army was still not a viable choice, at least not for my abilities as a gamer. 

My win rate for lizards was still fairly low, I would win one game for every two I lost. I claim not to be a competitive player, but even so i don`t particularly enjoy losing. 

So, my question arises. Should I give WHF another go now that my favourite army has a viable army book? Or is it likely I am just setting myself up for more disappointment?


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## Alexious (Apr 13, 2009)

The question is not whether you should come back... but do you wish too?

Something about WHFB is attracting you... so work out what that is. For me and I am now in my 22nd or so year of GW plastic crack and of course metal crack addiction its something that I take and leave at will.

There will be periods when I dont play for 5 months... or even a year... then I will pick it up and paint like mad and play 30 games in a month... I take it and leave it as I go.

As for 40k or Fantasy consider a few things. 

1). Can you afford a decent army of both? This is not a cheap hobby.
2). What army attracts you and why? For me if I loved TK or Lizards or whatever it would make no difference if they were the worst out there... it would be thats the army I play as I love the idea or theme or specific idea about it.
3). If its all about a win loss ratio for you... and I say this with the greatest respect... then perhaps your looking at this incorrectly or playing the wrong game man... 40k and Fantasy are not pure tactical games... they are games of chance with a lot of factors involved that are not always fair to one army or one style.... but it changes every time a new book or edition is released. If your desire is only a win ratio play chess... or if its not complicated enough and your a historical nut... try your hand at 20mm historical or FOW or something else. For me I love the complication of the ACW stuff that comes with 4000 parts of cardboard or World in Flames... if I can find players for it. 

As for that answer.... you already know it.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Go for it. You've gotta realise that practice makes perfect- you can't expect to enter the game and immediately begin winning. Play with the more experienced players in your local area and ask them if they'd give you tips throughout the game. You shouldn't let yourself become disheartened by some losses whilst you're still learning. If the game appeals to you, and you can afford it, then why not?

Not to mention, those new Tomb kings models are damn sexy. I'm having trouble stopping myself from picking them up myself. How can you resist?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Well, for your key points...



Alexious said:


> The question is not whether you should come back... but do you wish too?
> 
> Something about WHFB is attracting you... so work out what that is. For me and I am now in my 22nd or so year of GW plastic crack and of course metal crack addiction its something that I take and leave at will.
> 
> There will be periods when I dont play for 5 months... or even a year... then I will pick it up and paint like mad and play 30 games in a month... I take it and leave it as I go.


I do wish to come back to the medieval style side of this hobby. But as to what I`m looking for in the hobby, beyond the collecting side which I`m fine with, is the gaming side.



Alexious said:


> 1). Can you afford a decent army of both? This is not a cheap hobby.


I have been a 40k player for almost eight years now, maybe more because I wasn`t really counting. I own a decent force of every xenos race, and have given away or sold roughly 60% of my purchases over that time. Expense is not a problem.  



Alexious said:


> 2). What army attracts you and why? For me if I loved TK or Lizards or whatever it would make no difference if they were the worst out there... it would be thats the army I play as I love the idea or theme or specific idea about it.


TK appeal to me for no reason other than their fluff. Undead powerful kings out to reclaim their lost civilsation. They`re necrons all over again. 



Alexious said:


> 3). If its all about a win loss ratio for you... and I say this with the greatest respect... then perhaps your looking at this incorrectly or playing the wrong game man... 40k and Fantasy are not pure tactical games... they are games of chance with a lot of factors involved that are not always fair to one army or one style.... but it changes every time a new book or edition is released. If your desire is only a win ratio play chess... or if its not complicated enough and your a historical nut... try your hand at 20mm historical or FOW or something else. For me I love the complication of the ACW stuff that comes with 4000 parts of cardboard or World in Flames... if I can find players for it.


Well no offence but historical games bore me to tears. And I am not afraid of losing a few games, it`s _never winning at all_ that I don`t want. I can score a decent win ratio with most of my 40k games and I would like to be able to boast the same with Fantasy. Do you feel that 8E is random enough to make the game interesting, rather than the copypasted lists of 7E which saw certain players and lists practically auto winning? When I play, I want to know it will be a good game, not an exercise in placing and removing model skeletons from the table over six turns. 



Alexious said:


> As for that answer.... you already know it.


No mate, I don`t. If it were that simple I would not have asked. :dunno:


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

If expense isn't really an issue then go for it- look through the different armies available, mebbe evern read some of the fluff/novels and fins something about an army that you really enjoy... then grab a small army.
Finding the right army can often make a huge difference- I have 3 WFB armies, and if I had started with my HE first I doubt I would have kept playing. I might break them out every now and again but they just aren't that enjoyable for me to play. Instead I started with ogres which were incredibly difficult to play with but great fun...

If expense had been an issue I would probably have said just to stay with 40k. You're obviously drawn to WFB, but you've also said that something about it didn't chime with you. That could well be down to the army you chose... but if it is from the game system itself then thats cause for concern.
If you really do enjoy 40k for the "throw dice and giggle" aspect then perhaps WFB isn't the game for you. Its more involved and you have to think about what you are doing a little more: standard tatcics and just throwing dice at a problem will often not work. This is a weakness of WFB, but also its main strength: no 2 WFB games will ever be quite the same, while I've played a lot of 40k games where I can make a pretty good prediction of what is going to happen before we even set up... sure its still fun, but can get a little boring at times.


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## Evil beaver2 (Feb 3, 2009)

If youve got the option to try it with a borrowed force, then I see no reason not to try that first. That way youll have a better idea of what youll need if you decide to get your own, and you wont waste time or money buying and painting units that you wont use.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Warhammer Fantasy is a completely different game to 40k. Having started out as a 40k player, I decided to start Warhammer Fantasty once 8th edition was coming along. I played a couple of games using the old 7th edition rules, before playing four games in the new edition.

In two of those games I got my arse handed to me by a Chaos Daemons army, where my opponent was using the Lore of Death to decimate my army. After that I went back to 40k but recently I too have been thinking about fantasy, not least what to do with all the Bretonnian and Chaos Warrior models I've got. Now I really enjoyed making my Nurgle warriors so I'll stick with them for now and try and get back into the game over the next few months.

My advice to you would be much the same, especially since Tomb Kings have now been redone, complete with some very impressive sounding units. Start out small and get the hang of the game. One thing I will say though, is make sure you've got some sorcerers. I think they're a requisite part of any army that wishes to be successful under the new rules.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

The new tomb kings are a wonderful book overall; balanced fairly well with plenty of variety, and few real 'no brainer options' that lead to a power-gaming curve. There's few if any real 'instant win' buttons in the army, which is definately a good thing!
I'd say go for it and start up your long desired TK collection!

In fact, those tomb kings are so appealing, that I'm currently working my lahmian VC's into a 'tomb lahmian' army!:biggrin: (partly too because the VC book sucks monkey-balls)


8th has leveled the playing field so that any army can take on and beat any other army... I've found personally though, that you simply need to find a group of like-minded gamers to really enjoy the game.
Like all things GW, there's still some glaring 'Wardisms' present, like the magic phase which can really ruin the game if you run into a couple TFG's who insist on spaming the broken shit.

Cheers!


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## kain1989 (Dec 1, 2009)

the transition from 40k to fantasy is a hard one. With 40k, you get a solid list, and solid tactics, you're probably going to do well. with fantasy, you need a solid list, a solid deployment, and solid movement. I'm not saying 40k is point and click, but fantasy is much more reliant on the movement phase.

I'd say go for it, find some guys who are good for friendly games, and let them show you some of the basics, and you'll pick it up quick. at least that's what happened to me.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

experiment 626 said:


> The new tomb kings are a wonderful book overall; balanced fairly well with plenty of variety, and few real 'no brainer options' that lead to a power-gaming curve. There's few if any real 'instant win' buttons in the army, which is definately a good thing!
> I'd say go for it and start up your long desired TK collection!
> 
> In fact, those tomb kings are so appealing, that I'm currently working my lahmian VC's into a 'tomb lahmian' army!:biggrin: (partly too because the VC book sucks monkey-balls)
> ...


Traitor! Vampires will have there day when we get an FAQ to fix are over priced bs......(Or a new book......)

*cough*

Anyhow i would say play your Lizardmen they look cool and are an uncommon army~ (Here at least....everyone is dark elfs....or chaos or Skaven or high elfs)


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

I think calling Tomb Kings "balanced" is a bit premature at this point.
But yes, they're powerful and could be the emerging "army to beat"


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Looking at your top 2 choices and the new changes with 8th edition, I'd definitely say give it a go. 8th Edition is much better for casual gaming, and both Tomb Kings and Lizardmen are at a really good spot right now.


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## Abomination (Jul 6, 2008)

Come back to Fantasy, it's pretty awesome. I started a few months ago as an aside from 40k but I've found Fantasy to be much more enjoyable, balanced and tactical to play. Its a much more level playing field compared to previous editions too so Lizardmen would have little trouble competing now. 

I also have the TK army book and it is awesome. Some gorgeous artwork and you can make many different and competitive lists from it. If you liked TK background before you love it all over again in the new TK book, it's really well written and brings the TK 'alive' so to speak.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Well the poll seems pretty favoured towards yes, so I`m gonna get started. 

Already bought the sepulchral stalkers. Love these models, and their abilities and rules make me lol a lot. :laugh: 

Thank you for your help.


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## turel2 (Mar 2, 2009)

Trial it first, you might like it now.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Well the poll seems pretty favoured towards yes, so I`m gonna get started.
> 
> Already bought the sepulchral stalkers. Love these models, and their abilities and rules make me lol a lot. :laugh:
> 
> Thank you for your help.


If all else fails and you end up not liking it you can send me the tomb kings and i will send you more necrons!
:friends:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I hate the game itself, but the models, and the fluff I'm beginning to enjoy more and more. Recently picked up the Malekith series again with the release of Caledor (fucking epic, by the way), and the special models, such as the Sphinx, Abomination, Dragon, Archaon, Belakor, and Carnosaur.

While I'm not a fan of the monsters in game, the models are just too good to pass up.


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## HereticHammer01 (Apr 29, 2011)

I think its good you're starting again: it is always more enjoyable if you win, but I usually have fun even when losing. I think this edition is better for the new gamer. Perhaps read up on the tactics, grab the rulebook and you may have more success.


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