# C'Tan Vs Other Factions High End Powers



## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

I'm curious where in your perceptions the C'Tan (night bringer, outsider, void dragon, etc.) Rank in terms of power versus the other factions deities/high end powers. Such as the emperor, eldar gods such as khaine when it was whole, the hive mind, the ruinous powers, primarchs etc.

Also one another thing I'm curious about, from what I've read some accounts state it was slaneesh and khorne who shattered khaine, while others say it was the night bringer who infected, divided khaine and it was he the nightbringer who led to the eldars fall not slaanesh.

Your thoughts?


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## BrainFreeze (Oct 9, 2008)

Pretty sure it was the Nightbringer that took down Khaine, dont have my books on me right now though.

If you go by the fluff available then the C'Tan and the Chaos "Gods" would be on the opposite ends of the spectrum at about equal power. The Eldar gods would be lower especially seeing as most of them were killed in the war between the Old Ones and the Necron. 

Though you have to accept that the 4 C'Tan left are the strongest of the race that we know of. So there is a very high possibility that there were much weaker members of the race then what we have still around.

Of the imperium the only member that would even be able to understand things on the level of the C'Tan and Chaos gods would be the Emperor. Wether or not he's a match for one or the other though is up for debate since we have noting to base his current power on other then his current status as an astropath beacon.

Of the other races, we dont know much of the higher ups in the hive fleets so we cant make a compairson though the Necron have no reason to fight the fleets. The Tau dont really have anything on this level. The Orcs of couse have their two awesome gods of awesomeness.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

That is what I read too, that the nightbringer maimed khaine in combat, and that the war between the eldar and ctan war led to the eldar's gods destruction and races downfall. Yet in other accounts it states slaanesh consumed the eldar gods and shattered khaine.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

Lux said:


> That is what I read too, that the nightbringer maimed khaine in combat, and that the war between the eldar and ctan war led to the eldar's gods destruction and races downfall. Yet in other accounts it states slaanesh consumed the eldar gods and shattered khaine.


It's my understanding that Khaine defeated Nightbringer, actually, during the War In Heaven, though this event may have been his undoing. From the Lexicanum:



> During the War in Heaven, Khaine fought and defeated the Nightbringer, shattering his necrodermis, although the resulting metal shards pierced his flesh, tainting his form with 'the aspect of the Reaper'. It is also said that this event precipitated the eventual fall of the Eldar: The Nightbringer planted the fear of death within all mortal creatures except the Orks, which furthered their survivalist emotions. In the depths of the warp, beings created during the turmoil of the War in Heaven would feast on these feelings and grow to sentience, setting into motion a chain of events that would close the Path of Rebirth for Eldar souls forever.


If I were to rank them, it would be as thus, keeping in mind that entities like the chaos gods can't directly combat the C'tan, or vice versa:

Chaos gods > Gork and Mork/ eldar gods at the height of their power > C'tan > The Emperor > The Primarchs.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Double posted, deleted.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

I figured the nightbringer didn't actually lose per say, as in I thought when it's physical manifestation was destroyed, it left unharmed and acquired a new form to house its essence. While khaine was infected and this caused his shattering into the many shards which went to the craftworlds?

Also did the night bringer combat khaine in the warp? I assume it did due to the eldar gods being purely warp entities. Thus the night bringers partial defeat could be attributed to it fighting khaine in the warp where it was weakest?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

He was infected which gave rise to his aspect as the Reaper, but it was his near-destruction by Slaanesh that caused him to be shattered and cast out of the Warp.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> He was infected which gave rise to his aspect as the Reaper, but it was his near-destruction by Slaanesh that caused him to be shattered and cast out of the Warp.


What doesn't make sense to me here is...if the night bringer fought khaine prior to the birth of slaanesh, how?...I mean to say, that the war the ctan waged upon the old ones and their forces anihilated then, and the ctan only relented when the enslavers came and whiped out thei ctans food source...the old ones and their forces.

So the eldar should of been anihilated to near extinction by this point yes?


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

Lux said:


> I figured the nightbringer didn't actually lose per say, as in I thought when it's physical manifestation was destroyed, it left unharmed and acquired a new form to house its essence. While khaine was infected and this caused his shattering into the many shards which went to the craftworlds?


The way I look at it, it's the equivalent of a soldier scrapping with a carrier of a disease. The soldier kicks the carrier's ass, but contracts the disease the carrier had. He still won the fight, it just wasn't worth the price of winning.



> Also did the night bringer combat khaine in the warp? I assume it did due to the eldar gods being purely warp entities. Thus the night bringers partial defeat could be attributed to it fighting khaine in the warp where it was weakest?


Something tells me that the C'tan can't enter the warp. If they could, the Nightbringer would be pretty blood stupid to enter the realm where his greatest weakness is present in full force.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

The c`tan cannot enter the warp, nor can a warp god enter the materium.

This battle occured at a time before the chaos gods existed, before daemons and before enslavers. This is only my interpretation, so bear with me:

At this stage, the warp and the materium overlapped. So it was very possible for c`tan to fight Khaine and such, and the eldar could fight literally alongside their gods. 

But when Khaine wanted to destroy the eldar, (fearing they would be his undoing) Isha pleaded with Asuryan to save them. Asuryan did this by placing a barrier between the warp and the materium, ensuring that the gods and mortals could never interact directly. The c`tan, being entirely material, stayed on the same side of the barrier as mortals.

Later, when Slaanesh defeated Khaine, he was shattered and driven through this barrier, becoming the avatars of today.

imo, These eldar gods were the Old Ones, and they erected the barrier between as a measure of protection from the c`tan, little realising that the birth of Chaos was on its way...


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

If your interested, a partial answer to your question was discussed at length in this thread:

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55100



BrainFreeze said:


> Pretty sure it was the Nightbringer that took down Khaine, dont have my books on me right now though.


It was actually Slaanesh. With some differing sources claiming the weakened Khaine was fought over by Slaanesh and Khorne, which is what caused him to shatter and be driven out of the Warp.

Eldar mythology claims that Khaine actually defeated the Nightbringer as others have said, during the War in Heaven I believe. But as with all mythology, the tale may well be a myth, parable or just a complete fabrication.



BrainFreeze said:


> The Eldar gods would be lower especially seeing as most of them were killed in the war between the Old Ones and the Necron.


Most of the Eldar Pantheon were killed and consumed during the Fall of the Eldar by Slaanesh, not during the War in Heaven.



Lux said:


> Also did the night bringer combat khaine in the warp? I assume it did due to the eldar gods being purely warp entities. Thus the night bringers partial defeat could be attributed to it fighting khaine in the warp where it was weakest?


The Warp is anathema to C'tan. So if such a duel did take place, it wouldn't have been in the Warp. And its also not clear whether or not the Eldar gods were pure warp entities.



Serpion5 said:


> But when Khaine wanted to destroy the eldar, (fearing they would be his undoing) Isha pleaded with Asuryan to save them. Asuryan did this by placing a barrier between the warp and the materium, ensuring that the gods and mortals could never interact directly. The c`tan, being entirely material, stayed on the same side of the barrier as mortals.
> 
> Later, when Slaanesh defeated Khaine, he was shattered and driven through this barrier, becoming the avatars of today.


With the information we have, that is probably the most logical conclusion to arrive at.


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## shas'o Thraka (Jan 4, 2010)

Lux said:


> Yet in other accounts it states slaanesh consumed the eldar gods and shattered khaine.


I'm not sure how reliable this would be, seeing as how Slaanesh was practically 'created' by the Eldar greed, so any threat Slaanesh could have been at the time, would have made him a target by *ALL* of the Eldar gods.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

And yet that is the account that is backed up by the majority of fluff, remember Slaanesh would have been incredibly powerful in comparison to the Eldar Gods when he/she was 'born'- Slaanesh had been fed by the countless millennia of Eldar decadence plus the heady draught of trillions of Eldar souls once he ripped his/her way into existence.


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