# Horus Heresy Discussion - WARNING: Spoilers - Update 29/9/07



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

*Horus Heresy Discussion - WARNING: Spoilers - Update 22/10/07*

Just thought I'd create a thread for any random discussion of the Horus Heresy books. 

If you havn't read them or don't want to find out what happens then don't read these posts as discussion will most likely be of Spoiler like material.

You have been warned.


I'm enjoying them so far. False Gods was a bit draggy but then again it had to be, can't all be bombs and bullets can it. The one thing I would like to see (which they have started to do now) is to include more of the Chapters into it, especially the other Legions who turn tratior - so far we have not heard anythign of the Night Lords, Iron Warriors or Alpha Warriors and only a little of the Thousand Sons (no doubt to Wraiths anger). 

But now that they have done Fulgrim, are doing Descent Of Angels, plus another book has just been announced called 'Legion' written by Abnett (all plot details are yet unknown). I have hopes that in the next year or two we will see books for a those other Legions come out detailling their fall from grace (Wishing and hoping Abnett will write 'The Dark').

Anyway enough from me. Let the discussion begin.


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> Hopefully they will tell us more about other traitors. Have enjoyed all of the books, but I thought Flight was a bit of a drag, but then again, what can really happen on a ship, apart from being assaulted by Nurgle. Fulgrim was spot on, really enjoyed it. Character buld so far has been good, especially Loken. Was sorta gutted when he got wasted. You can feel the arrogance in Lucius as well. Hopefully they will do a book about the sacking of Prospero. 

>> On another note Jaco,. Do you take these novels as fluff? Just with them being the most in depth about the Heresy so far.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Its a interesting question in regards to wether they could be considered fluff. Personally I do accept them as canon. For the reason that I don't think BL would fuck about with such a huge subject as the HH. They know that everybody will consider it as fluff in 5 or so years. And its very indepth.

There is a few minor things which annoy me (equipment etc), but in the majority I think that they are as good as they could be.

I totally agree with you on the Loken and Lucius thing. Their development has been great. I was glad when Loken died though, I would have been pissed if he had turned with the rest of the chapter and it really solidifed the idea that it really was brother against brother.


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> On the canon thing. You get people will say its not because its not in a dex or the like, but most of the novels are written by people who help design the games. 

>> I imagine when Descent of Angels comes out theres gonna be a lot of Dark Angels players saying either told you they not shady, or what the fuck man, my Angels cant be that dodgy. 

>> What do you thinks gonna happen wi Horus Aximand? Stay loyal to Horus or loyal to rthe Emperor, as he seems to be having conflicting thoughts.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

To be honest I'd love to see the size of a Codex that could properly explain the ins and outs of the HH. It would be bloody huge.

Descent of Angels is going to be really interesting I think. Not only because it is about the Dark Angels own private little Heresy but also because it is the first novel about a Legion that doesn't turn tratior (or not fully anyway). It's going to ruffle feathers though no matter what way you look at it.

I think Little Horus is going to stay loyal to Horus. He's in far to deep now, even if he did get away from the Sons he would be shot on site. Either that or he will be killed off in a later purge probably by Abbadon. Horus and Abbadon will get a little suspicous of his motives. He isn't embracing Chaos he's just still loyal to Horus. And once a tratior always a tratior so they will think he might og back to the Emporer.

One thing I really did like about Flight was when Qruze repainted his armour to Luner Wolves colors - I thought that was such a nice touch. 

Just checked on the internet and apparently Legion is going to be about the Alpha Legion. And because I'm so nice here is the cover of the book which I found. It might be fake though. 










Graham McNeils next book which is slated for Spet 08 is aparently going to be about the Adp Mech and their infighting so it should be interesting to see the HH universe expanded to the non SM organisations. 

Still no word on anything Night Lords  Whats worse is that their isn't much call for it. There is a fair amount for Salamanders and Raven Gaurd though which is fair enough something needs to be done about them but we can't have the Night Lords being the only Chaos Legion not being featured.


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> Honestly mate, I aint got a clue. :?: Only thing I could even think of is the Loyal legions returning to Earth to face Horus, but probably not. You got any ideas?


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> Did the Alpha Legion not attack the Smurfs. Can remewmber reading something about this, not in Fulgrim though, even though there is a small mention of it. Apparantly, the Alphas had some men paint there armou like smurfs, smurfs thought they were reinforcements, then BLAMM, fucked. HEE_HEE, dead Smurfs.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Not sure aye. There is very little info about the book out other than its about the Alpha Legion. Not the chapter I expected to be covered next I can tell ya.


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> Im off for a few spliffs at my mates, so catch you later.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Just found out another peice of rumour. Aparently, according to some sources Legion is the 8th book NOT the 7th. So another book might be in between the two. It had better be published that way other wise a lot of people are going to get very confused.


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> Musr be 2 bookss between mate, cos Descent is the 5th, unless im missing something somewhere. :?:


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## PILGRIMSHOST (Jun 17, 2007)

About a year ago I bought my copy of GALAXY IN FLAMES and the manager told me that originally there was supposed to be seven books and now it seems its just gonna go on and on...its fine by me but can anybody tell me how many there will be?

By the way FULGRIM is the 5TH.

1. HORUS RISING
2. FALSE GODS
3. GALAXY IN FLAMES
4. FLIGHT OF THE EISENSTEIN
5. FULGRIM
6. DESCENT OF ANGELS
7. (I READ ON DAN ABNETS SITE) LEGION


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> My bad peoples. I was just looking at the books in front of me


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## FalseEmperor (Jul 29, 2007)

I just finished Flight of the Eisenstein and I felt it was basically 3.5 and not really a wholely new addition to the series. I enjoyed getting Garro's point of view of the events but it just seemed a bit "rehashy" to me. My local bookstore hasn't gotten either Fulgrim or Descent so I'm a little po'd about that. 
On a side note you guys answered something that has bugged me since I got Eisenstein, Loken died. That fuckin sucks. Now I've never been a history buff as far as 40k goes and so forgive me for my ignorance about some of the subject matter. See I held out a little hope that Loken somehow survived at the end of Galaxy in Flames. From what I remember I got the impression that he passed out from his injuries and that was all. Yeah I know I'm an idiot but that is just how I read it but then again it was really freaking late and I wasn't exactly "all there" mentally. So now I will take this moment to mourn his passing. ........ ok done. Although I agree that it is better that he died loyal to the Emperor though I really loved his character better than any of the others. 

~False


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Lol Descent hasn't really been released yet so none of us have unfortuantly. Can't wait though.

Yea Loken died. Even if he hadn't then there is no way he could get off the planet. I think its better that he died loyal and proud. Yes just checked and he's dead. Love the end of the paragraph which says he's dead though. It ends with Abbadon thinking that Little Horus needs watching. Abbadon is going to kill him, even if Little Horus is still loyal to the Warmaster.

I think Loken is nearly everybodies favourite character, just because he had such good character development over the first three books.


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> Agree with the point on Horus Aximand. Abbadon will kill him, but will be able to convince Horus that he was right in doing so. Abbadon seems to have ideas above his station, even though he is 1st Captain. I am liking the way they doing Lucius and detailing how the self scarring started. Emperors Children fucking :rock:


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Just finished fulgrim yesterday, and I was thinking, there are a few loose ends in Fulgrim that could lead to Tarvitz, and Vipus coming back. When Eidolon asks Lucius if he saw tarvitz die, Lucius says no, but there's no way he could have escaped. That in itself is nothing, but when asked about Ancient Rylanor (the dreadnought) Lucius says he saw nothing of him after the virus bombing, as he was assigned to guard something. Those two together could add up to something, as whatever rylanor was guarding clearly was something important if they were willing to pull their only vehicle off the front lines and have him sit around doing nothing. 

My hunch is it's an underground hanger, with some stormbirds or army transports in it. (I'm assuming this was Isstvanian surplus, left behind by the imperials, which is why Horus missed it. Since thunderhawks were new, they wouldn't have been left to rot on a backwater planet that was taken twenty years prior.)

I know galaxy in flames says that the precentor's palace is bombed again, but the surviving loyalists are in the warsinger's temple, and nothing is said of their death, other than "the battle for isstvan III was over". No mention of roofs crashing down and crushing astartes, nothing like that. So, it's possible that the warsinger's temple led to an underground hanger filled with ships, and these final hundred men were able to escape, as galaxy in flames says they only bombed the city. If they flew low, they would be able to escape the fleet's sensors (even if the sensors did pick them up, there's debris flying all over the place down there and it would be very difficult to discern flying rocks from a stormbird, at least from orbit) and land somewhere else on the planet, waiting until the fleet left and then figure out a way to escape the planet.

What do ya think?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I don't know if I would want Tavritz or any of the others coming back, they died a awsome hero's death. It would be kinda cheap to bring them back I think.


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

yeah, but the final battle between tarvitz and lucius was kind of...empty. Lucius running away like a whipped dog didn't really do it for me, it needs to be much bigger I think.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Thats a good point actually, hmm I'll have to have a serious think on it all now.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

*Look what I found!*

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=115554

More than enough to make me drool and yea sure Abnett didn't write the Night Haunter short but i've been impressed with McNeil's work in Fulgrim, defintly made up for his first HH book which kinda blowed. I still want Abnett to write The Dark (yes I know it an't important to the overall story but I can dream) and the battle between Horus and the Emporer though.

Plus the bit about GG is interesting. I really don't mind Abnett dragging the seris on as each book is just so dam riveting!.

Now to find that thread about Legion. Come here little thready!


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Nice find man.


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## Alexander_67 (May 5, 2007)

I'm enjoying this series no end. It has been said i agree that some of them drag ala false gods but its to be expected. The fighting and war narration makes up for that ten fold in my opinion. 

The best i think so far is a toss up between Dan abnetts Horus rising or The first half of Fulgrim. I say the first half of fulgrim because i havent the heart to read the second half and read about the downfall of the Emperors children as i think they are awesome. 

I was a bit miffed about never finding out why Mortarion turned to chaos, his motives were never revealed in Flight of the eisenstein. I think it doesnt really need to be said why Angron goes to chaos, i mean he was pratically there already but it would have been nice to hear Mortarions view. It also strikes me that the book Fulgrim is the first to really get personal with the primarchs. You get to hear Fulgrims/Ferrus Manus thoughts and feelings first hand not just regurgetated by some 3rd party. I that thought was odd. The Primarchs before hand had been sort of above it all and while constantly narrated about and talked to, you never really got to know what went on it their minds. I dont know if seeing that in Fulgrim was a good thing or bad. Any thoughts

(I also wondered what the hell happened to Saul Tarvitz and his unit?)


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## Helikaon (Aug 27, 2007)

I like most of this series, the writing is solid in all the books ut I am sick to death of Garviel Loken's little band of loyallist traitors, gve us some oiut right traitors already! (athough Iacton Grulgor and the ending chapters of _Fulgrim_ more than make up for some of the lacking)

I can't wait for _Descent of Angels_, the Dark Angels have always been my favourite chapter and hopefully we can get some new fluff for Cypher and the Fallen.

_Legion_ should be cool as well, especially if it features the Imperial Army.
What are everyones hopes for the series?

I wan't:

The Fall of Prospero from both sides, inclding the Primarchs
A Sanguinuis narrated Blood Angels novel
An Iron Warriors novel like Horus Rising (i.e. told from the perspective of a soldier or Captain)
A novel from the Emperors perspective
and a novel set directly after the Heresy has ended
[/list]


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Three books:

The Dark (Night Haunters Tale - its actually his personal diary but from the perspective of may Zso Sahaal is fine as well) - written by Abnett of course.

A book about the Raven Gaurd

A book about the Salamanders.

(Those two could actually be combined - be their perspective of the Drop Site Masscres)


A Space Wolves book would be nice as well but they will get coverage in the Fall of Prospero.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

I loves the HH books. I keep them right next to my bed so I can read them at all times. It is also widely known if I go on a trip without a HH book, or books, the world will end.

I think I liked Galaxy In Flames and Fulgrim the best...GIF because it's always fun when 40% of the main characters die off rather uncerimoniously. I mean, if Horus himself came down and hacked Loken's head from his shoulders everybody would cheer, but just pressing the button and blowing them away is kind of...anticlimactic.

-Dirge


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Right bit of update for you. I've done some wandering around the net and come up with some interesting little titbits of infomation. Some of you will already know this but for those that don't:

The Latest Book has been annonced its going to be called *"Battle for the Abyss"*, will be written by Ben Counter and will be released in August next year and... thats about all I can tell you for certain. There is a bit of rumour flowing around about it everything from it being a Mech tale, Horus defeating a large portion of the Imperial Navy and Dorn and somebody else (can't for the life of me remember) having a Navel confrotation. Some people also hope/think it will be Blood Angel related.

The facts about the Prospero book have come to light as well. It will be written by two authors. The book will contain two stories. Dan Abnett will write the Space Wolf perspective of the event and Graham McNeill will write the Thousand Son's presective. Aparently depending on what order you read the stories in will affect how you see the event. No word on offical title (although I imagine it will be The Fall Of Prospero or Prospero's Fall or something along those lines) or release date yet.

There is a lot of talk about the specifics of the plot of Descent Of Angels but I won't go into that. Its all quite boring and complicated and just gets confusing in the end. 

The two short stories which Dan Abnett and Graham McNeil wrote are being published in a 'Chapbook' limited to 1500 copies of which only 500 are available through the website apparently. 500 will be available at a GD (probably the UK one) The last 500 will be available at another (as of yet unknown) time. I'm just going to cry now. They will probaby be available late next year for download via the website. At least I hope so. I'm so strapped for cash at the moment that I can't get it. The first decent bit of Night Lords in the seris and I have to be broke.  

Theres been talk of a Mech novel written by McNeill but still nothing solid.

Anyway thats all for now. Updates when they come to light.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I've read Horus rising and Decent of Angels and was surprised at how they portrayed the primarchs as being so very human, i was dissapointed with how Descent of Angels finished though. I'm contemplating trying to write a story for Corax, hes always been left out of the loop never mentioned by the other primarchs in stories it as if hes the black sheep of the family. So i either wanna write one myself or hope that a book containing him and his relations with the more promient primarchs comes out.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Why is it the Sons of Horus are painted Green? its such an unusual colour and in the White Dwarf entry they were never green were they?


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

They're painted a kind of light puke green before the Black Legion-era scheme. The Luna Wolves were grey, the SOH puke green, Black Legion, duh, black.

-Dirge


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

They don't really ever get given a reason for the color of the Sons Of Horus. Maybe Horus likes puke green?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Ok - while trawling the Black Library website I found the first offical word about "Legion", including a color cover.

Heres the link: http://www.blacklibrary.com/product.asp?prod=60100181060&type=Book

Not much to go on but I imagine that there is going to be a lot of soul searching in the book for the Alpharuis. And those guys on the cover arn't Orcs - they are Imperial Army. I got confused at first.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Yeah the one after that is meant to be battle for the abyss but no info on what its about is out yet. I think all legions will end up getting a book in the series though some may share books like the way the imperials fists have been in eisenstein, they will probably take a more prominant role in a book closer to the attack on tera.
I'm hoping they do more for the raven guard and salamanders they along with the iron hands have always been the most ignored legions.


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

My favourite character was Torgaddon. 
I've been pleasantly surprised by this series, despite Graham MacNeil's efforts. His books were the weakest by far, he even managed to fumble the emperors children story. SHAME. Anyhoo, thats my personal oppinion. Fave out of the series were Horus Rising and Flight of the Eisenstein, despite the fact that it hardly progressed the story.
Now, if they'd just take MacNeil's pen away...I dont mind who else they give it to, the rest have done a really good job.

PS, graham macneils arnt HORRIBLE, they just arn't as good as the rest by a distance.

Oh, would just like to say: They're good, but the Gaunt's Ghost books are better. - They're the only GW books ive ever seen read by people who DONT play the game.


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## inqusitor_me (Jan 27, 2008)

I'm reading False Gods and boy its shit. They changed the whole freaking thing of how it started. They should of made Dan Abnett write it. Because Graham McNeill doesn't keep with the Loken character the way that Abnett wrote him. What does everybody else think?


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## ACoz (Oct 23, 2007)

Looking to get into reading these for myself... what's the order they need be read in, or is there one?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Fantastic ACoz, they are a awsome seris. They go in this order:

Horus Rising
False Gods
Galaxy In Flames
The Flight of the Eisenstein
Fulgim
Decent Of Angels
Legion (Soon to be released)
Battle For The Abyss (After that)

All you need to know about the books can be found here:

http://www.blacklibrary.com/product.asp?prod=60100181022&type=Book


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## ACoz (Oct 23, 2007)

Nice!

Thanks Jacobite!

Conveniently enough, I've already got my hands on a copy of Horus Rising...


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

No problem mate. be interesting to hear your thoughts on the it.


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## Andros (Dec 10, 2007)

About that thing with Tarvitz and Vispus coming back.... I don't think that'll happen at all......

A bomb hit the Palace and they didn't bother taking cover, They knew it was over, and I think the only one who survived might be Rylor, due to him being underground, and guarding something.......

And I want to know what happens to Keeler and all that, and Garro, he becoming the first Grey Knight or Death Watch?

False Gods and Descent of Angels were the worst out of the HH Books for me though <.<;


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## Wade (Jan 21, 2007)

I've just finished reading the new book Legion and it is quality! 
Fulgrim is probably still my favourite though this comes a close 2nd!


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

Alexander_67 said:


> It also strikes me that the book Fulgrim is the first to really get personal with the primarchs. You get to hear Fulgrims/Ferrus Manus thoughts and feelings first hand not just regurgetated by some 3rd party. I that thought was odd. The Primarchs before hand had been sort of above it all and while constantly narrated about and talked to, you never really got to know what went on it their minds. I dont know if seeing that in Fulgrim was a good thing or bad. Any thoughts
> 
> (I also wondered what the hell happened to Saul Tarvitz and his unit?)


If you can get hold of "The Lightning Tower/The Dark King" short story book that was available at Gamesday it's well worth a read. "The Lightning Tower" was the most introspective piece of fiction based on a Primarch that I have read, it was really personal. It actually made me like Rogal Dorn as a character, previously I'd thought he was the biggest wanker out of the Primarchs.


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## Emperor's Fang (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm just kind of jumping in here but i just finished Eisenstein, and picked up Fulgrim, but i was thinking that maybe Garro, Qruze, et all might be the first of the Inqusition for the Ordo Hereticus or maybe the first of the Grey Knights. I mean look they proved they were loyal, can't go to any other Legion, and are not (in Qruze's case) about to betray the spirit and intent of the Legion they came from.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

A couple of new covers for you from "Battle For The Abyss" and "Mechanicum". They look very cool and the 1k Son Marine on the "Battle" cover is very interesting. I think Wraith may be pleased :grin:.


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

Yeah the Thousand Son IS intriguing, makes me even more excited about the next book. I love the Mechanicum cover too. I was talking with a friend about the mechanicus during the heresy and wondered if the split of their forces was just a logical decision so that the the mechanicus would survivve no matter who won, guess we'll find out later in the year.


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

Thats a nice cover jac, but i thought we'd established Battle for the Abyss was Smurphs v Word Bearers?

The figure in the centre is certainly one of gulliman's space gerbils, and the ones on the far left and far right are word bearers, so what's the thousand son in there for?

Artists cockup? Otherwise.....very interesting.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

No idea aye, I amuse it must be a Thousand Son who was with the Ultramarines and obviously stayed loyal because he didn't know about the whole Prospero thing.


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## vindur (Apr 1, 2008)

As far as i can see Garro became the basis for the Grey knights and Qruze was told the imperium was in need of "inquisitive people" suggesting hes the first inquisitor


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## CallumM27 (Mar 20, 2008)

vindur said:


> As far as i can see Garro became the basis for the Grey knights and Qruze was told the imperium was in need of "inquisitive people" suggesting hes the first inquisitor


It says in the last chapter of FotE that Garro, Qruze and Amendera Kendel are the inqusitive men and women the impirium needs. So i think that Garro=first Daemonhunter, Qruze=first Xenos hunter and Kendel=first Witchhunter. I had a convo with some grey knight players it says in the collective visions says that the Emperor wanted 8 space marines with psykic talents and loyalties were unquestionable who became the first Grey Knights.

Back on topic I've just got Legion today and can't wait to find out what secrets it reveals :biggrin:


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## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

On the Abyss picture I would say that Magnus probably sent a few TS to warn the Ultramarines of Horuses betrayal about the same time as the Word Bearers set the trap for them. Remember.. Magnus knew the betrayal was coming and was probably trying to warn more than just the Emperor.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Just finished Legion today and I must say that I loved the little twist dealing with Alpharius. Gave me a whole new outlook on the primarchs, what might have happened to one or both of the ones expunged from Imperial records, and the death of Alpharius after the heresy.

Flights always been my favorite though, since it is focused more on a handful of astartes who were forced to watch as everything they held dear was destroyed by those they called brother and leader. (The fact that it is written well is a bonus considering who the author is.)

I still think that people knock Descent of Angels when they shouldn't though. Its far from the best in the series because it has little to do with the Heresy itself, but the important story of the Dark Angels occurs after the heresy, what leads to it occurs beforehand and has to be done now instead of later.

Fulgrim and GIF are tied for me as the saddest books in the series so far; GIF because you knew what was coming and hoped it wouldn't, watching marines stand up to their own primarchs and overwhelming numbers that they would never hope to defeat. Fulgrim is just as sad because the entire novel is about the gradual fall of an entire legion and fleet, and then how far Fulgrim is driven by his own corruption.


I'm not entirely certain how many books they plan on coming out with, but I do remember reading that there will be one about the Blood Angels on Calth, and the first signs of the black rage that plagues them now; one about the fall of Prospero and the damnation of the Thousand Sons; one pertaining to the trap created by the Iron Warriors to destroy the Imperial Fists fleet in an attempt to cripple a fourth legion; and at least three books for the siege of terra. (With that one, I personally cannot wait for the defense of the eternity gate, with Sanginius alone holding back the forces of chaos as everyone else withdraws, and then see him get some revenge on the daemon that broke his back on Calth...)


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## Dragonlover (Oct 17, 2007)

The Blood Angels stuff is actually on Signus Prime, not Calth. Calth is the Ultramarines/Word Bearers bit.

They've basically said 'If you keep buying them, we'll keep writing them'.

Dragonlover


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

while all these books will be great i feel that they need to start adding abit of the emperor into the story. i know they will want to leave him out for as long as possible because everyone wants to read about him and it generates interest but they cant possibly do the heresy and just add abit of the emperor at the end of the series.
he has got to be the character with the most needed to be said about as he was either a bumbling idiot or more scheming than tzeentch. anyone else have any thoughts on this?


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## Holyboltshells (May 22, 2008)

Sorry for seeming blind but can someone explain why they believe the Battle for Abyss pic has a thousand son in it, it seems like a Ultramarine to me :shok:

The Mech book seems awesome and like the theory about the mech fighting on both sides to preserve themselves seems like something they would do. 

Legion has been my best so far though i loved Horus Rising. Best moment for me so far has either gotta be Loken beating Lucius in the practise cage or the revelation of Alpharius Omegon being one soul in two bodies. Worst has to be Torgaddon getting killed, seemed way to easy for Horus Aximand and i expected Aximand to be killed by Torgaddon and then for him to be killed by Abaddon.

The idea of the survivors of the Flight of the Eisenstein being the first Inquistors is sound, although i doubt its quite as perfect as each is the first of each order.

I highly doubt we will see much of the Emperor. If we do it would have to reveal to what extent he knew of his sons actions. Seems more likely he will stay elusive.

I feel that Descent of Angels was definitely the strangest book, having less to do with Caliban then the Dark Angels if you get what i mean. Can clearly see the seeds of discord. Do we reckon Zaherial will stay loyal (but be treated as Fallen) or follow Luther. Personally feel hes the current day Cypher.

Sorry bout the lengthy post but these books are awesome


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## Dragonlover (Oct 17, 2007)

The Thousand Son on Battle for the Abyss is currently unexplained, we're assuming some kind of emissary/wrong place at the wrong time scenario with him.

Dragonlover


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

the descent of angels to me is by far the most intrigueing and delves the deepest into any other legion so far. even though on the surface it has nothing to do with the heresy if read carefully it has everything to do with it. it shows how luther was really a standup guy and loved the lion although he was definately jealous. it shed some light on the fact of how luther must have felt because he couldnt become a full astartes so now he was pushed even further away from the lion. it also shows how secretive the lion really was, much like the picture painted of alpharius before legion came out. it shows how the lion never really gave props to those beneath him which is another thing that led to luther's fall from grace. it shows how jealous he was that zaharial and the marines following him were able to defeat the daemon and not him. the lion's pushing away of luther and the dark angels that were following him led them to belive that he didnt care about them at all, which must have been absolutely crushing to their spirit. especially luther who, through everything from finding him in the forest and following him on his campaigns and being there for him through everything and standing by his side and striving to be his best for him even though he was never appraised and then having to deal with not being a full astartes but still leading with all of his charisma and ability only to be pushed away from the one he called brother and left behind. sure he had a weakness when he left the flight deckto let the bomb go off BUT he still came back to fix it and did with zaharial's help. i think its rather tragec really. it also sheds light onto why nobody knwos who the fuck lord cypher is! this guy probably thought the lion was breaking with tradition and whatnot so he defected with luther. who knows!! i really loved this book, i actually loved all of them but this one is really enlightening. it really made me fell for luther, poor guy. my guess is that zaharial took up the mantle of lord cypher during the fall so that he may continue the good fight and not truly be known by anyone.


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## Fenzar (Jun 10, 2008)

*1k sons on battle of abyss cover*

Hi all,

Firstly I'd like to say i've never actually played Warhammer 40k. I've just never had the time or the funds to get into it and I suck at painting etc arts and crafts type stuff. However I love the 40k books and have almost all of them and HH is my favorite part of them rivaled only by Gaunt's Ghosts. I was thinking about the 1k sons because they provide a very interesting and tragic story, one of the best of the Heresy I think. After playing through all the DoW games and reading the Blood Ravens novels I think it's somewhat safe to assume that the Blood Ravens are a loyalist remnant of the 1k Sons. Where could this loyalist remnant be that they do not get caught up in the burning of Prospero? Oh, maybe with the ultramarines as pictured on that cover? I think it would be really neat if the Great Father Azariah Vidya makes an appearance here leading a contingent of 1k sons. The only thing that makes think this wouldn't happen is that they would be giving a lot of the "secrets" they keep away. It would still be sweet though and a good way to tie in the "current" history and novels of 40k to the HH even more.


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

i must say BlackApostle, that is a most excellent summing up of Descent; i had a bit of trouble interpereting it myself. theres a lot of speculation surrounding that book, but i think it did exaclty what it was meant to do; make the DA even more shrouded than they were before. Honestly, i think the HH series is going to answer a few important questions, but it will open all new ones because thats the way the 40k universe is. if they gave us all the answeres right now, thered be no forums like this where we talk about what _might_ have happened or how things _might_ have gone down. Personally, i think the way GW is handling the HH series is genius.
as for whether or not the emperor will make an appearance, i dont think so. He may appear in the last three, but i seriously doubt he will be given any character time at all.
although it would be totally awesome if im wrong


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## vindur (Apr 1, 2008)

My therey links up to DoW. Azariah Vidya was first captain of the thousand sons and was sent to terra with a company of marines to warn the emperor. but were lost in the warp.

Blood ravens dont know who their primarch is, have a huge interest in knowledge, have and unusually high level of pyskers and mutations. And their first chapter master is called Azariah Vidya. Also the word bearer in DoW seems to know about their past which would explain the connection between the WB vs Ultras and the 1k son there for no apparent reason.


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