# Custom codex: Immortal Vanguard



## <E!_Mance> (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a friendly only army (not so much anymore with Apocalypse looming over all) but it still is my basis for all of my army lists with the SPace marines from now on, I mean, I'd like to think so at least...
And these are in no way necessarily the real way GW has made any army, squats or alive.
*Codex: Immortal Vanguard*
* HQ*Father Melchior, Master of the Chapter Pts195 WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv2+/5+
 *Wargear:* Sentinel's Bane, Lance of Hiigara, Terminator Armour, Emblem of Ghosts, Lambent Arumak
*Special Rules:*
Independant Character
Honour of the Chapter
Rites of Battle
Teleport assault
 Sentinel's Bane: Bane shield that allows Melchior to ignore armour in close combat, and adds +2S and -1I to his profile.
 Lance of Hiigara: R18" S9 AP2 Heavy 1, gets hot!
Lambent Arumak: Enemy in close combat with Melchior suffer a -2Ld modifier.

Magi Emir, Revenant of the Company Pts215 WS5 BS5 S6 T4 W3 I6 A4 Ld10 Sv3+/4+
 *Wargear:* Storm Bolter, Blades of Vice & Ire, Frags, Meltabombs.
 Power armour, Fury of the Ancients Psychic power, Jump Pack, Psychic Hood, Shroud Morbid.
*Special rules:*
Independant Character
Psyker
Counter-attack
Honour of the Chapter
Feel no Pain
 Blades of Vice & Ire: 2 Master-crafted Force weaponsthat may be used once more than normal per turn.
 Borrowed Time: When Emir suffers any wound, he must pass a Ld test or suffer an immediate Perils of the Warp attack This can lead to another Ld test. Emir always counts as being killed for Victory points.

 Zael Osis, Chief Librarian of the ChapterPTS190
WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+/4+
 *Wargear:* Thunder Hammer, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak s, Force weapon.
 Power armour, Nightshade, Veil of Time, & Hellfire Psychic Powers, Shroud Morbid.
*Special Rules:*
Independant Character
Fearless
Counter-attack
Hit & Run
 Fallen: Dark Angels units always hit Zasifazel on at a 3+ at worst, and he counts as costing 380pts for victory purposes against Dark Angels.

Spectre Zephon, Lord BalcoraPTS185
WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+/4+
 *Wargear:* Hauberk of Balcora, The gatekeeper's tools, Meltapistol, Iron Halo, Meltabombs.
*Special Rules:*
Independant Character
Rites of Battle
Counter-attack
Balcora disciplines: All members of Tactical, Veteran, and Command squads may take Meltabombs & Combat shields for free.
The gatekeeper's tools: 2 master-crafted lightning claws.

Wisp Sachrad, Master of the Recruits PTS145
WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv4+/4+
 *Wargear:* Iron halo, Scout armour, Master-crafted Sniper rifle, Master-crafted Plasma pistol, Power weapon, Frags, Kraks, Auspex.
*Special Rules:*
Independant Character
Rites of battle
Counter-attack
Infiltrate
 Younger brothers: Sachrad may only take a scout squad as an Honour guard, this squad may not take extra men, and takes up no FoC space, but otherwise acts as normal.
 Detachment Captain - 100pts
WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv3+/4+
Equipment: Bolter, Chainsword, Frags, Kraks, Power armour, Iron Halo
Special rules: Independant Character, Rites of Battle, Counter-attack.
OPTIONS
>May replace Bolter with Bolt pistol for free, Plasma pistol for +15pts, or Meltapistol for +20pts.
>May replace Chainsword with:
Power weapon for +15pts
Power fist or Lightning Claw for +25pts
Pair of Lightning Claws or a Nanbanfu for +30pts
>May take a Storm Bolter for +5pts
>May take Meltabombs for +5pts
>May take a Jump pack for +20pts or a Bike for +30pts. If neither is taken, he may replace all of his equipment and the Counter-attack skill with:
Terminator armour, Emblem of ghosts, Storm Bolter, & Power weapon for +25pts.
Terminator Captains may replace their Storm Bolter with a Bane shield for +10pts.
Terminator Captains may replace their Power weapon with a Nanbanfu for +20pts.
>Any Captain may take the True Grit skill for +5pts.

Librarian - 120pts
WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I5 A3 Ld9 Sv3+
Equipment: Bolter, Force weapon, Frags, Kraks, Power armour, Psychic hood.
Special rules: Independant Character Psyker, Honour of the Chapter, Counter-attack.
OPTIONS:
>MUST take at 1-2 of these psychic powers: Fury of the Ancients, Veil of Time, Nightshade (The Shrouding).
>May replace Bolter with Bolt pistol for free, Plasma pistol for +15pts, or Meltapistol for +20pts.
>May replace Psychic hood with Shroud Morbid for free, or take Shroud Morbid as well as Psychic hood for +25pts.
>May take a Familiar for +10pts
>May take a Storm Bolter for +5pts
>May take Meltabombs for +5pts
>May take a Jump pack for +20pts or a Bike for +30pts. If neither is taken, he may replace all of his equipment with:
Terminator armour, Psychic hood, Storm Bolter, & Force weapon for +25pts.
Terminator Librarians may take a Shroud Morbid as normal.
Terminator Librarians take psychic powers as normal.
>Any Librarian may take the True Grit Special skill at +5pts

Command squad - 120pts - 5 Marines
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
Equipment: Bolter or bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag s, Krak s, Power armour.
Special rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, True Grit, Counter-attack
OPTIONS:
>0-2 Marines may replace their Bolt pistol with a Plasma pistol for +15pts each.
>0-2 Marines may replace their Chainsword with a Power weapon for +15pts or Power fist for +25pts each.
>Any Marine may take Meltabombs at +5pts each
>0-2 Marines may replace their Bolter with a Flamer for +5pts, meltagun for +10pts, Plasma gun, Heavy Bolter, or Multi-melta for +15pts, Missile Launcher for +20pts, or Plasma cannon or Lascannon for +25pts.
>1 Marine may be upgraded to an Apothecary for +20pts
>1 Marine may be upgraded to a Standard bearer for +10pts
>For every Detachment Captain in the army, 1 Command squad may upgrade 1 to a Champion. Replacing his Chainsword with a Power weapon, & Combat shield for +25pts
>The Command squad may take a Transport.
*
Elites*
Terminator Squad - 200pts - 5 Terminators
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv2+/5+
Equipment: Terminator Aromur, Storm Bolter, Power fist (Sergeant has Power sword)
Special rules: Fearless, Teleport assault.
OPTIONS:
>Any may replace its Power fist or Power sword with a Chainfist for +5pts.
>0-1 Terminator may replace its Storm bolter with a Heavy Flamer for +5pts, Multi-melta for +25pts, Assault Cannon for +30pts, or add a Cyclone Missile launcher for +20pts.
OR
>Each Member of the squad replaces his weapons for a pair of Lightning claws for free, or a Nanbafu & Bane shield for +5pts.
>The squad may take a Drop pod transport.

Dreadnought - 115pts
Walker WS4 BS4 S6 I4 A2 Ft12 Sd12 Rr10
Equipment: Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with Storm Bolter, Smoke Launchers, Searchlight.
OPTIONS:
>Upgrade to Venerable for +20pts
>Replace Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon & Storm Bolter with Missile Launcher or replace Storm Bolter with Heavy Flamer for +5pts
>Replace Assault Cannon with Multi-melta or Twin-linked Autocannon for +10pts, or Plasma cannon or Twin-linked Lascannon for +15pts.
>Take Extra Armour for +15pts
>The Dreadnought may take a Drop Pod Transport.

Techmarine - 75pts - 1 Techmarine & 0-3 Apprentices. 1 Techmarine may be taken for each non-dreadnaught, non-transport vehicle in the army.
Techmarine WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv2+
Apprentice . WS4 Bs4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv4+
Equipment: Artificer armour, Bolter or Bolt pistol, Frag s, Krak s Power weapon, Servo-arm.
Special rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Blessing of the Omnisiah
OPTIONS:
>Replace Bolt pistol with Plasma pistol or Bane shield for +15pts
>Replace Servo-arm with Servo harness for +25pts.
The flamer or Twin-linked Plasma pistol on the Servo harness may be replaced with a Meltagun for +15pts.
>The Techmarine may be accompanied with up to 3 apprentices armed with a Servo-arm, Bolter, & Chainsword for +35pts. Each Apprentice adds 1 to the Blessing of the Omnissiah roll for the Techmarine. Any Apprentice may replace his Servo-arm & Bolter or with a Meltagun or twin-linked Plasma pistol for free. 1 Apprentice may replace his Servo-arm & Bolter with a Heavy Bolter for free.
>May take a Transport.

Veteran squad - 105pts - 5 Marines
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
Equipment: Bolter or bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frags, Kraks, Power armour.
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, True Grit, Counter-attack, Combat Squads.
OPTIONS:
>The squad may include up to 5 additional Marines for +20pts per .
>0-3 Marines may replace their Chainsword with 1 weapon from the following list:
Storm Bolter for +5pts, Power weapon for +15pts, Power fist or 1 Lightning Claw for +25pts, or 2 Lightning claws or Nanbanfu for +30pts.
>Any Marine may take a Combat Shield for +5pts, or replace their Bolter, Bolt pistol, or Chainsword with Bane Shield for +15pts.
>Any Marines may take Meltabombs for +5pts.
>0-2 Marines may replace his Bolter or Bolt pistol with 1 weapon from the following listL
Flamer for +5pts, Meltagun or Heavy Bolter for +10pts, Plasma gun, Multi-melta, or Missile Launcher for +15pts, or Lascannon for +20pts
>My take a Transport

Scout Squad - 80pts - Sergeant & 4 Scouts
Sergeant WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv4+
Scout . . .WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv4+
Equipment: Bolter or bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frags, Kraks, Scout Armour.
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Combat squads.
OPTIONS:
>The squad may include 5 more Scouts for an additional 65pts.
>Any Member of the squad may Replace his Chainsword with a Sniper rifle for +5pts.
>One Scout may replace his Chainsword for a Heavy Bolter for +15pts, or a Missile Launcher for +20pts.
>The Sergeant may replace his Chainsword with a Power weapon for +15pts or a Power fist for +25pts.
>The Sergeant may replace his Bolt pistol with a Plasma Pistol for +15pts
>The Sergeant may take Meltabombs for +5pts.
>If the squad has not taken ANY Heavy weapons or any other weapon that would increase their Strength above 4 in any way, they may purchase the Scouts Special Rule for +30pts for the squad. The 1st unit to do this may be taken as a Troops Choice.
*
Troops
* Tactical squad - 105pts - Sergeant & 4 Marines
Sergeant WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
Marine . WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
Equipment: Bolter, Chainsword, Frags, Kraks, Power armour.
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, True Grit, Counter-attack, Combat Squads.
OPTIONS:
>The squad may take an additional 5 Marines at +75pts.
>The Sergeant may replace his Chainsword with a Power weapon for +15pts or a Power fist for +25pts.
>The Sergeant may replace his Bolter with a Bolt pistol for free, or a Plasma Pistol for +15pts
>The Sergeant may take Meltabombs or an Auspex for +5pts.
>1 Marine may replace his Bolter with a Flamer for +5pts, Meltagun for +10pts, or a Plasma gun for +15pts.
>1 Marine may replace his Bolter with a Heavy Bolter for +5pts, Missile launcher for +10pts, or a Multi-melta for +15pts.
>May take a Transport
*
Fast Attack*
Assault squad - 130pts - Sergeant & 4 Marines
Sergeant WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
Marine . WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
Equipment: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frags, Kraks, Power armour, Jump Pack.
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Counter-attack, Combat Squads, Deepstrike.
OPTIONS:
>The squad may take an additional 5 Marines at +110pts.
>The Sergeant may replace his Chainsword with a Power weapon for +15pts or a Power fist for +25pts.
>The Sergeant may replace his Bolt pistol with a Plasma Pistol or Meltapistol for +15pts
>The Sergeant may take Meltabombs for +5pts.
>The Sergeant may take a Combat Shield for +5pts
>2 Marines may replace their Bolt pistols for Storm Bolters for +5pts.
>The squad may replace their Jump Packs with a Rhino for free.

Scout Biker Squadron - 90pts - Sergeant & 2 Bikers
Sergeant WS4 BS4 S4 T4(5) W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv4+
Scout . . .WS4 BS4 S4 T4(5) W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv4+
Equipment: Equipment: Bike with Twin-linked Bolter, Chainsword, Frags, Kraks, Scout Armour.
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Scouts.
OPTIONS:
>The squad may add up to 3 additional Scout Bikers for +25pts each.
>1 biker other than the Sergeant may add a sidecar to their Bike for +20pts, it adds +1A, +1W, and either a Heavy Bolter or Multi-melta which can be fired as well as the Twin-linked Bolter.
>The Sergeant may replace his Chainsword with a Power weapon for +15pts
>The Sergeant may take a Bane Shield for +15pts
>The Sergeant may take Meltabombs or an Auspex for +5pts.

Biker Squadron - 110pts - Sergeant & 2 Bikers
Sergeant WS4 BS4 S4 T4(5) W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
Marine . .WS4 BS4 S4 T4(5) W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
Equipment: Equipment: Bike with Twin-linked Bolter, Chainsword, Frags, Kraks, Power armour.
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear.
OPTIONS:
>The squad may add up to 3 additional Bikers for +30pts each.
>2 bikers other than the Sergeant may replace their Chainsword with a Flamer for +5pts, Meltagun for +10pts, or a Plasma gun for +15pts.
>1 biker other than the Sergeant may add a sidecar to their Bike for +20pts, it adds +1A, +1W, and either a Heavy Bolter or Multi-melta which can be fired as well as the Twin-linked Bolter.
>The Sergeant may replace his Chainsword with a Power weapon for +15pts or a Power fist for +25pts
>The Sergeant may take a Bane Shield for +15pts
>The Sergeant may take Meltabombs for +5pts.

0-1 Land Speeder Squadron - 65pts - 1 Speeder.
Fast Skimmer BS4 Ft10 Sd10 Rr10
Equipment: Heay Bolter or Multi-melta.
OPTIONS:
>Up to 2 extra Land Speeders may be taken at +65pts each.
>1 Land Speeder may take a Typhoon Missile Launcher at +10pts
>up to 2 Land Speeders may take an Assault Cannon for +35pts or a Heavy Flamer for +10pts each.

* Heavy Support*
Devastator squad - 105pts - Sergeant & 4 Marines
Sergeant WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
Marine . . WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
Equipment: Bolter, Chainsword, Frag s, Krak s, Power armour.
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, True Grit, Counter-attack, Combat Squads.
OPTIONS:
>The squad may take an additional 5 Marines at +75pts.
>The Sergeant may replace his Chainsword with a Power weapon for +15pts or a Power fist for +25pts.
>The Sergeant may replace his Bolter with a Bolt pistol for free, or a Plasma Pistol for +15pts>The Sergeant may take Meltabombs for +5pts.
>Up to 4 Marines may upgrade their Bolter to a weapon from the following list:
Heavy Bolter for +15pts, Missile Launcher for +20pts, Plasma Cannon for +25pts, or Lascannon for +30pts
>May take a Transport.

Dreadnought - 115pts
Walker WS4 BS4 S6 I4 A2 Ft12 Sd12 Rr10
Equipment: Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with Storm Bolter, Smoke Launchers, Searchlight.
OPTIONS:
>Upgrade to Venerable for +20pts
>Replace Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon & Storm Bolter with Missile Launcher or replace Storm Bolter with Heavy Flamer for +5pts
>Replace Assault Cannon with Multi-melta or Twin-linked Autocannon for +10pts, or Plasma cannon or Twin-linked Lascannon for +15pts.
>Take Extra Armour for +15pts
>The Dreadnought may take a Drop Pod Transport.

0-1 Company Armoured Division - 1 Vehicle
Whirlwind . .BS4 Ft11 Sd11 Rr10 85pts
Armed with Searchlight, Smoke launchers, and either Vengeance or Castellan Missiles
>May take Pintle Storm Bolter for +5pts
>May take Hunter-killer Missile for +10pts
>May take Extra Armour for +15pts

Vindicator . .BS4 Ft13 Sd11 Rr10 125pts
Armed with Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Storm bolter, and Demolisher cannon
>May take Pintle Storm Bolter for +5pts
>May take Hunter-killer Missile for +10pts
>May take Extra Armour for +15pts
Predator . . .BS4 Ft13 Sd11 Rr10 70pts
Armed with Searchlight, Smoke launcher, and Autocannon
>May upgrade Autocannon with Twin-linked Lascannon for +30pts
>may take a pair of sponson Heavy bolters for +25pts or Lascannons for +60pts
>May take Pintle Storm Bolter for +5pts
>May take Hunter-killer Missile for +10pts
>May take Extra Armour for +15pts

Land Raider BS4 Ft14 Sd14 Rr14 250pts
Armed with Searchlight, Smoke Launcher, Pair of Sponson Twin-linked Lascannons, and Hull-mounted Twin-linked Heavy bolter
>May take Pintle Storm Bolter for +5pts
>May take Hunter-killer Missile for +10pts
>May take Extra Armour for +15pts
0-1 The Land Raider Arbalest
Pts320 BS4 Ft14 Sd14 Rr14*
Armament:* Searchlight, Smoke Launcher, Hull-mounted Twin-linked Lascannon, Pair of Sponson mounted Assault Cannons, 2 Hunter-killer Missiles, Machine spirit.
_Assault Vehicle.__ Access Points:_ Front assault hatch & 2 side Hatches.
_Fire points:_ None.
_Transport Capacity:_ 12 Space Marines, Terminators count as 2 Marines.
 *Special Rules:*
Dire presence: The Arbalest may only be used in an army list as a dedicated transport for a Detachment commander with the Emblem of Ghosts. It takes up a Transport choice rather than the Company Armoured division choice for the FoC.
*
0-3 Dedicated Transport vehicles* - 1 Vehicle
Rhino . . . .BS4 Ft11 Sd11 Rr10 35pts
Armed with Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, and Storm Bolter
>May take Pintle Storm Bolter for +5pts
>May take Hunter-killer Missile for +10pts
>May take Extra Armour for +15pts

Razorback BS4 Ft11 Sd11 Rr10 50pts
Armed with Searchlight, Smoke launcher, and Twin-linked Heavy Bolter
>May upgrade Twin-linked Heavy Bolter to Twin-linked Lascannon for +20pts
>May take Pintle Storm Bolter for +5pts
>May take Hunter-killer Missile for +10pts
>May take Extra Armour for +15pts

Drop Pod . BS4 Ft11 Sd11 Rr11 50pts
Armed with Storm Bolter and Inertial Guidance Mechanism

Sorry for the long post, so to make it shorter, any questions as to this list will be answered seperately (no profile tables or anything...)


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

You need to get some sense of balance.


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## <E!_Mance> (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I'm happy to make it balanced.
Just point it in the right direction and I'll make some changes, but 1st you'll need to show what balance is rather than just naysaying to help get it.


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## angels of fire (Dec 4, 2007)

Why are the transports cheaper?:scratchhead::no:


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

The transports are cheaper as this is based on the Dark or Blood Angels codex, which have only 5 or 10 man marine squads, cheaper transports, more expensive extra armour, combat squads, and default vehicle upgrades.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

i love it when people come up with their own dexes. 

the hardest thing is to get a good sense of balance. i havent read the 'dex fully, but i will. have you playtested it and stuff like that?


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## Master Kashnizel (Jan 5, 2008)

Cool Idea I would like to see more stuff from you like a paint scheme.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

The characters are right off, for one. A simpel rule for this stuff is that if you make something using your own codex it should cost more than exactly the same thing from a real one. what it should never ever cost is less, because that is invariably far too cheap. You should also have to pay out the arse for weapons that you don't normally get, because there's a good reason that characters don't normally have them. You should also keep to an absolute minimum the number of things any character has that they couldn't get normally.

You really do need to fix pretty much all of the characters. They range from remarkably underpriced to grotesquely underpriced.

Also, don't just make up a price for the new vehicle without consulting the VDR price for it first. You can undercut that by a small margin, but it should be a reasonable guideline. The cost is probably the closest to sane out of the options you made up.


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## Khorus (Jan 7, 2008)

I have to agree with uberschveinen. Your character models are way too cheap. Your Terminators are also too cheap for having Fearless. I wont even go into your Squads counter attack and true grit, if you want that play Space Wolves. Oh and Techmarines are better in codex than you have in your custom codex and they should always take up a FoC slot not per Tank, that is getting a bit much. 195 pts for a 3w 2+ armor 5+ invuln character wielding a LASCANNON and is Str 6 in Assault?!? Yeah you need to up the points here by about 200 more. Anyway nice try on it, needs more balance and good luck getting anyone who is Codex to let you play with that Custom.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

I like custom dexes'. I even made one up for my Kytharin idea. I like the looks of this one, I'd play it.

-Dirge


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## DeusMortemEst (Dec 14, 2007)

You know, you should really just base all your units and especially characters on allready existing ones, as it can be difficult to calculate points and such.


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## <E!_Mance> (Jan 2, 2008)

cccp said:


> i love it when people come up with their own dexes.
> 
> the hardest thing is to get a good sense of balance. i havent read the 'dex fully, but i will. have you playtested it and stuff like that?


Yes I have. And I don't remember having Fearless Termies, that's gone.
That main structure is based on the new BA & DA, yes. This is why it's designed like it is.
*achem*
Rhino in BA & DA = 35pts, Razorback & Drop pod in same = 50pts. If this is the way Marines are going, I'm adapting too.
Cheaper s... Now, I will make them more expensive but I'd like to see asking prices.
Lascannon now... Wait, it is. Ok, this is a MUCH older design.
Techmarines are like this in the new Marines, so I'll be using it like that. BUt if you'd read the dex and actually think about how it's structured, you'd see that there can only be 0-1 of these 'inferior to the norm' red guys... LOL WUT?
This isn't for tourney play, unless it's Apoc, in which case it'll be hell to play against anyone anyway.
True Grit & Counter attack are part of the traits system, yes? I've essentially taken traits on this army. Albeit more things are featured, but traits are there. They used to be Heed wisdom & Trust brothers, with Flesh over steel & Stand alone. Based on that, there is True grit.
Besides, Mantis Legion, ravens, guard (3rd ed.), watch, and Scythes of the Emperor all have it too. Not just Space Wolves.
The prices are hard to fathom, I know. But you haven't given me a more acceptable price for these things and instead are just repeating each other's points over a few things. I'd gladly change it, but I want to know what to change it to.

And this isn't overpowered. Not compared to, say...:

Tau Stelath suits with Plasma rifles
Infiltrating assaulty Tau with I6 in the charge
Aun'shi with a pistol and immunity to psychic powers.
An entirely new race.
A monsterous creature that ignores all saves and wounds on 4+ at worst... with fleet and may move in assault phase.
Tranquility Snipers.
A Tau vehicle with a TL Railgun & 5 Burst cannons that transports Stealth suits.
...
XV22s running free.
That's what I play against. We all sat down and really thought about what to price them at... But outsider advice is welcome.

I'm working on getting the newest version done up and linked somehow. It's got fluff & schemes etc.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Just because other people are idiots doesn't mean you should also be an idiot. Tell your Tau pal that he's an arse, and just play with codex models. If you try to beat his overpowered idiocy with your own, you'll either win and start an escalation of silliness, or lose and have been better off never doing it.

Never make these things for competitive reasons, it never, ever, _ever_ works out. I would consider myself rather good at this stuff, having done an enormous amount of it, and I playtest my own rules as far as I possibly can solo. Even then, I don't expect to use them and wouldn't do so unless someone else asked me to.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

how long did it take you to write all of that??? I like when people make their own armies you can't get much more personalised than that


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## zealotic (Oct 11, 2008)

to take all of the pissed off bull out of everyone's arguments I would say that Mance needs to force his opponents to only play their actual codex, not over powered whatever's going-on's, and that the codex point values need to be changed.

In reality you can make whatever you want, the points are there to make everything balanced, sure a space marine can kill an imperial guardsman almost every time in combat, but the odds are about even for 3 guardsmen against a space marine.

I have no problem with your characters and the special rules, just make things more balanced. By that I mean you should get a few friends to play test the 'dex, and have them write up extensive objective battle reports. After about 50 of these, yes this is a lot of work why do you think that GW takes so damn long with them, look at the lists and whats working, whats not, whats over-priced, what's not doing what it's supposed to, etc. Edit the 'dex to make things as balanced as possible, rinse repeat.

The big thing is to not use yourself as the only playtester, because even though you may think the 'dex is balanced, maybe you do something which weakens, or strengthens the armies you're playing, or whatever. I can't stress this enough, even titans can be killed by a couple of terminators, its not just luck its also averages. Don't look at lucky or unlucky moments, look at moments when the numbers average out, and then see who wins.

Of course that's if you want a balanced codex, otherwise just ask your opponents to stop being dicks and just use the regular GW codex, people trust them for a reason.


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