# New to fantasy need help picking an army



## Gnasher2001 (Jan 9, 2012)

Hi everyone, 
So I decided after playing a game of WFB last weekend at my FLGS, that I would start collecting a Warhammer Fantasy army. I have narrowed the armies I would like to play down to Skaven, Warriors of Chaos, and Vampire counts. I was just wondering which army might be a little more forgiving to someone new to the game? Thanks guys
Gnasher2001


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

Actually - all three are very forgiving, albeit in different ways.


Skaven are hands-down, balls-out the most powerful army in the game right now. They are great in every phase, have limitless numbers of cheap, all-but-unbreakable troops, fast movement, great shooting and magic and good combat.

You almost have to try to lose with Skaven.


Warriors of Chaos are hard as nails, very potent in close combat, tough and with strong armour. They have rock-solid magic, with wizards who can also wear armour. Even if you make some tactical blunders, WoC are simply tough enough to take it on the chin and still have a good shot at winning. There are very few things in the game that can out-fight a good unit of Chaos Warriors in a straight fight.

Vampire Counts, like all undead are immune to psychology and never run from combat - they have legions of cannon-fodder and raise more every turn giving you the ability to recover well from any mistakes you make.


I realise that that doesn't give you a lot to go on, all three armies you suggest really are forgiving for the newcomer.

however - I'd strongly advise you not to choose an army that way. A year from now you won't be a new player, but you will still have whichever army you chose now - so chose one you want to play for a long time. choose one that has models and a playstyle you like a lot, choose one with great fluff or cool characters, choose one that none of your mates play. Choose an army for long-term reasons, not just 'which will forgive a new player's mistakes best'.


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## TechPr1est (Nov 6, 2011)

Azezel said:


> Warriors of Chaos are hard as nails, ..................., WoC are simply tough enough to take it on the chin and still have a good shot at winning. There are very few things in the game that can out-fight a good unit of Chaos Warriors in a straight fight.


 
i really waant to know how they go when the opposing player has the lore of metal


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

While nasty, the Lore of Metal is hardly auto-win. Even Bretonnians can win against metal mages with a little skill. And let's be honest, Bretts aren't quite as well off as WoC (lower armour saves too!).

The way WoC deal with Metal is the same way anyone deals with any lore: magic defence. In WoC's case, a scroll and the Infernal Puppet. It's not like you'll ever see metal in an all-comers list anyway, though.


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## Gnasher2001 (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. I guess if I chose based purely on fluff and modeling I would choose WoC. I think in the end that would be the best.


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## Rhaven357 (May 23, 2012)

Vampire Counts have some really awesome units and imho the best centerpiece model currently out (terrorgeist)


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

I actually find Skaven to be tricky to play. I find the unreliability of certain undercosted rare and special units (hellpit abom, doomwheel, and warp-lightning cannon and other shooting models) to be frustrating. One of the persons I respect most is a top Skaven player. His warning is that it takes a long time and a lot of work to paint all the models, and you need experience to learn how to balance the army and keep the leadership bubble in place for the main steadfast units (slaves and clan rats particularly) in the Skaven army. Once you learn how to play and balance a Skaven army list, it is clearly top tier, but looking at Indy GT results in the US (generally limited comp and only special characters and Book of Hoeth banned) Skaven are not significantly above average in wins and losses and battle points because you need experience to play it well. Skaven, played well, can win tournaments. 

WoC is one of my favorite casual armies but I've generally not used it as a competitive/tournament army. It is a forgiving first army to play (was my first army when I started playing WHFB) with a heavy combat focus and good potential for magic defense (with infernal puppet). For that reason, I always find a game with and against a well-designed WoC army a tough fight and a challenge. WoC typically are slightly above average in competitiveness in a lightly comped tourney environment (below Skaven, Lizardmen, and Dark elves). But the army has more limited shooting options, no viable scouts, and expensive (but elite) characters and more limited core choices than I would like. I've played a throgg based army with troll core and chaos ogres and chaos knights with non-monstrous infantry characters in the knight unit. I've played armies based on core khorne warriors with halberds, tzeentch or khorne chaos knights, khorne great weapon marauder hordes (sometimes), chaos warhounds to screen and act as redirectors and diverters, and tzeentch war shrines more typically; sometimes with one or more units of trolls, a hellcannon, marauder horsemen, khorne chaos ogres or dragon ogres thrown in. The double warshrine, deathstar (typcially an over-sized unit of chosen, warriors or knights) armies with a favour of gods character or unit champ are kind of cheesy (not broken) to play, especially with chaos chosen. The double war shrine, favour of the gods, deathstar army requires that you roll and re-roll on the eye of the gods table in each of your shooting phases until you either get an 11 or 12 on the dice (to get your favoured unit the 4+ ward save and stubborn benefit) or one of a few other possible dice rolls that are of less or no benefit but do not allow for a re-roll. It can get old in a hurry and result in a win when the ward save is obtained on the deathstar unit early and a loss when it comes late or not at all. 

My primary concern with recommending Woc at this time is how the anticipated (reliably rumoured) new army book will change the balance and mix of units and how you equip units. With a new WoC book out mostly likely in October, if not in August, you run the risk of building an army one way only to have to modify it (at least the equipment choices) soon thereafter. Expect the balance between marauders and warriors and their optimal equipment choices and the benefits from the chaos marks to change. Perhaps marauder horsemen might become a bit lower priced; expect to lose many magic items from the existing book and a possible increase in points costs of the favorite magic items that remain and expect that chaos gifts currently chosen to change, be fewer in number and different points costs (possibly restricted by the magic points limit). Also, expect the competitive mix of special and rare units and their equpment, magic banners, and chaos marks to change (like the war shrines might be repurposed into chaos chariots with area augment or hex effects depending on the chaos mark chosen and with the roll on the eye of the gods table eliminated). 

I really like the new Vampire Counts army book, so much so that I have collected all the models required to build armies up to 4000 points with a variety of different options for units and characters and themes; whereas I previously was not interested in playing the army. It is not an easy army to play in some ways because of the crumble rules (lose wounds by the amuount you lost combat), heavy reliance on vampiric characters to lead the army, and potential reliance on the area effect magic chariots (corpe carts and mortis engines) and magic augment spells. But the number of viable/competitive options for units, banners, characters, and themes/focus of the army has increased substantially with the new book over the old book in 8th edition. It is not a broken army but looks to be very competitive (well above average) in 8th edition. (BTW The VC book was potentially broken with certain builds in 7th edition and clearly top tier.)


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## kain1989 (Dec 1, 2009)

I'd go to the store, and take an hour or so to read through the fluff of all the armies you want to play. find the one that pulls the most to you. then choose that army. If you choose an army merely by how "good" it is. If you do, and then don't care for the fluff and the models, you'll get bored of them.


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

From what you put, Skaven win, hands down.

For me, it's Dwarfs as my main WHFB Army with Skaven as my secondary.


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