# Addition of New "Mathhammer" forum?



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Would anyone like to see a new forum to highlight and showcase the excellent Combat Calculator we have here on Heresy.

The way I see this happening would be people listing a unit then people can post other units with the calculations to see how they fair against them. 

Perhaps a thread would be titled "Eldar Howling Banshees" followed by a whole heap of stats to show who they're good against. Every unit type would have its own thread then post after post of "tests" to show who they're good / poor against.

It'd be cool to find a proven "rock, scissors, paper" style chart for virtually every unit type in the game. 

Does anyone think this could work? Would you want to moderate and oversee this new forum if it went ahead?

Post your opinions here.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Interesting concept.
Suppose it could work.

Compiling charts of certain units vs other units would be a HUGE task though, and would probably take months (if not years) to achieve.

However having a separate forum section where people can request mathhammer calculations or observe certain matchups could be an interesting addition to the forum.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I think that it would defeat the point of having the Calculator there for public use. Instead of trawling through pages of calculations you can just do it yourself on the CC (Which is really quick because it's so easy to use).

Midnight


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Yeah it is good to do it yourself, the problem with that though is things don't get indexed by google. There's no "bonus" to having it if people don't know it exists. 

This imo should highten its popularity through searches retrning the threads.

just a thought mind, might be pointless but having a forum with stats in should draw more people in, the program is pretty much inactive, its seen more since I added it to the side bar on threads so I'm thinking its inactive because no one knows it exists.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I think it would be nice to have a seperate section for it, but I would be concerned that there would be a lot of "I want..." threads and not enough people posting "This is what I found when I..." threads. Basically lots of people looking for answers and not a lot of people providing them.

I'm not sure what qualifications you need in order to become a moderator, but I'd happily help run such a section if it did come into being, I have a fairly large interest in mathcrafting the armies I play, and enjoy helping others pick the right unit for the job.


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## Karnax (Sep 23, 2010)

How about, there is no actual stats, but instead, have it as say,

Howling Banshees
Good against x, y, and z, because...
bad against a, b, and c, because...

You could also give examples of units they work well with i.e. psyker with doom to help their S3.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

The inclusion of actual stats (I imagine) is pretty much the point of the mathhammer forum. The type of article you describe would fit perfectly in the existing Tactica section - anything to do with real numbers would be placed in the Mathhammer bit.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

I feel like calculations like that are useful as support for other tactical discussions or for general forum games like 'beat this unit' threads.

I don't see it getting a lot of traffic just for itself such that it requires its own subforum. It's not as though we're seeing tons of mathhammer threads popping up elsewhere in the forums which would evidence an existing need for a new subforum. So, essentially the new subforum would also need to generate reasons to go there that the site doesn't currently have.

So if it's not a lot of effort, I'd say go for it as an experiment and see what people make of it. I don't think it'll see all that much traffic, but hey, you never know for sure until you try it.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

My main concern would be people then turning their noses up at MathHammer even more on the rest of the boards. If you don't think that would happen, then I think this is a def goer. Either way, if it increases traffic to the site, it can't be a bad thing, right?


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

I frequently break out some rudimentary calculation in my posts and a lot more in depth calculation for my own benefit, but, mathhammer is generally only half of the answer to any sensible question. By splitting the forum up one seems to be trying to only answer half a question.

I believe it makes more sense to keep the mathhammering as part of general tactical discussion.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

I just want something that'll draw more attention to this script. 

If someone releases a new tool on another site its raved about all over the net... example - Dakka slame store finder (a google map API)... we release something (the combat calculator or the wargaming club directory etc)and watch the tumbleweed roll past.

It needs promotion, a stand alone forum promotes it so it's worth looking at I think. The vote is strongly in favour so I'll set it up.


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## IntereoVivo (Jul 14, 2009)

Could it be worked into the Meta forum? If we then promote the Mathhammer side it might pick up the Meta activity as well. I know we're re-working the Meta forum as we speak so it shouldn't be hard to work in.


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## Busken (Oct 20, 2010)

*nice, but*

it's a very nice idear and i like it in general, but i don't think i would work since the ultimate power of warhammer is the dice...


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Busken said:


> it's a very nice idear and i like it in general, but i don't think i would work since the ultimate power of warhammer is the dice...


I disagree. An important part of becoming better at the game is learning to manipulate situations in your favour, and thus mitigating the importance of luck. MathHammer is an excellent way to get a grounding in this...learn what you can average, and assume you will do less.. Then commit additional resources to the task.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

IntereoVivo said:


> Could it be worked into the Meta forum? If we then promote the Mathhammer side it might pick up the Meta activity as well. I know we're re-working the Meta forum as we speak so it shouldn't be hard to work in.


Yeah I think that'd be the better place for it


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

If it will help grow the forum, sure.

On a side note, do we have something like heresy online banners for members to put into their sigs on other forums? Something similar to the Dakka gif? That or members can just put some form of sig that points to heresy online competitions like the one I have, could help promote heresy.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

IntereoVivo said:


> Could it be worked into the Meta forum? If we then promote the Mathhammer side it might pick up the Meta activity as well. I know we're re-working the Meta forum as we speak so it shouldn't be hard to work in.


I'm not so sure, how does Mathhammer relate to the Meta-game? I honestly don't see the connection.


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## IntereoVivo (Jul 14, 2009)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> I'm not so sure, how does Mathhammer relate to the Meta-game? I honestly don't see the connection.


I was under the impression that the Meta forum was shifting into something pointed a bit more at Net Lists and power units (rather then armies). If this is the case then I assume we'll be mathhammering for all the units anyway.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

IntereoVivo said:


> I was under the impression that the Meta forum was shifting into something pointed a bit more at Net Lists and power units (rather then armies). If this is the case then I assume we'll be mathhammering for all the units anyway.


I was thinking more away from net lists as a whole, but rathe whats in them and why they are in them. I guess Mathhammer could help, but general mathhammer threads would be out of place IMO, and deserve a forum if enough people are willing to contribute articles about certain situations that they discovered. For example, the day when I discovered that point for point, Fleshborers were better at killing stuff than Spine Fists in the last Nid Codex. It went in Tactics, but if we had enough threads like that it would make sense to have a Mathhammer forum.


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## basstim (Sep 18, 2010)

I think that a combat calculator would be a good idea. Then, you have a good idea of who to attack/ avoid in combat. Tactica could also go hand-in-hand with a calculator like this.


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## IntereoVivo (Jul 14, 2009)

basstim said:


> I think that a combat calculator would be a good idea. Then, you have a good idea of who to attack/ avoid in combat. Tactica could also go hand-in-hand with a calculator like this.


Ummmm....you mean THIS?

I think he just made your point Jez.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

basstim said:


> I think that a combat calculator would be a good idea. Then, you have a good idea of who to attack/ avoid in combat. Tactica could also go hand-in-hand with a calculator like this.


:laugh: I LOLed :laugh:

Maybe the combat calculator does need better advertising of some kind if heresy's own members don't know it exists.


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

My thought is that wouldn't a specific forum sooner or later involve printing stats, figures and points values? 
And isn't that what the forums avoid using for fear of Games Workshop calling "Foul"?


Incidentally, this is how I use the Combat Calculator.

Step 1. Prior to facing off with an enemy that I have rarely or never played before I will try to envisage which situations I can reasonably expect to crop up in the forthcoming battle. 

Step 2. I'll try to work out what number of models from my core units that I usually field will work best in a battle against the units that I expect to see pitted against me. I'll see whether it's worth firing a transport's weapons in support of the unit or whether they don't really need the help.

Step 3. Then when I feel confident of victory in that particular face-off, I'll set up some models on a table top at home to represent the skirmish and roll the dice, so as to get used to the flow of that particular battle. 


That might seem a bit much to some of you but I don't get to play that many games and it helps get me up to running speed come the battle, as opposed to interminably leafing through the "to hit/wound charts" during the game.


Anyway, that's how I use the Combat Calculator. I'm sure everybody has their own particular method.


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## misinformed (Mar 29, 2010)

The "by-the-numbers" approach provides a helpful baseline that allows player to see, all things being equal on open terrain, how units will fair against others. Understanding that this is completely as though two equal computers were blindly rushing each other, who would win.

Utilizing these numbers removes the argument of who would win in poor tactics (which does occasionally come up). However, as always, it is the better player factor that it can never calculate. As such, I find these calculation to be very handy (though I have previously done them myself), but no substitute for tactical knowledge.

Al that being said, I would enjoy a section of Mathhammer for me and other statistics geeks to hammer things out.

On a separate note, the calculator has given me ideas that I would like to see added to it. Though most of them would be things that would have to come after the initial data was collected. Things like:

-Army strength listings (Overall placement of CC ability, shooting ability, defensive ability, etc with that understanding that all things are never equal.)
-Handicap system (A method of showcasing that difference in player ability. Using a simple -5 to +5 "player ability" quotient to see when one unit would be equal with another.)
-Terrain of scenario options (Set to simple Low, Medium, and High with low assuming open, medium assuming the last 12" open, and high assuming no open terrain achieved.)
-and other things too, but I won't bore you lol

Once again, there would be no perfect calculation, but there are definitely a few of us that enjoy discussing it. Moreover, it would be nice to have them together in one forum and not lost between threads.


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## Azrell (Jul 16, 2010)

I use the combat calculator all the time when building list, its awesome for choosing what units and making sure they can fufill there assigned roll, ie.. tarpit, cc dmg, shooty etc...

what would make it get used even more? link it to an easy to use iphone app. maybe with the ability to store units so you can see how many wychs are going to die to when a tac squad double taps them in game.

i have a good idea what is going to happen because i check thing like that as im building a list but if i could check what an opponents squad is likely to do as hes moving!!

But u don't know that its own forum section would help much, maybe just some articles in tactica or something to bring attention to it.


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## Vaifal (Jan 7, 2012)

It would be perfect to know the probable outcome of a battle and if your luck sticks to that or even goes over then it's a success!!!


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## Lord Azune (Nov 12, 2011)

I'm wondering, is there a way to convert it for Fantasy for the few of us who play Fantasy?


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## tomqi (Jun 18, 2012)

*Naw*

Me don't deed combat calculater... I MEAN I DO, but not always and I seen it to, it was MAD!!!!!! MOTTO: I LIKE CHAOS SPACE MARINES!!! 

*U see this motto in EVERY reply I do, just to pass it on!!! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## OMNOMNOMIVORE (May 31, 2012)

tomqi said:


> Me don't deed combat calculater... I MEAN I DO, but not always and I seen it to, it was MAD!!!!!! MOTTO: I LIKE CHAOS SPACE MARINES!!!
> 
> *U see this motto in EVERY reply I do, just to pass it on!!! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


the f*ck?


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

I would definately be interested in a mathhammer forum, and as also as suggested by Lord Azune would love it to be expanded to the Fanatasy portion of our members (some of use don't like our toy soldiers to have personal rocket launchers and laser pens)


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