# Apocalypse Questions Answered!



## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Wondering whether or not Apocalypse is worth purchasing? Have a question regarding a rumor or rule you have heard of? Want to know what awesome bonus you will receive for you formations? Ask your questions here!
All Heresy Members who have purchased Apocalypse are welcome to respond to posted questions. This is a community effort to enhance everyones Apoc Game experience and a chance to control some of the rumors still floating out there. Looking forward to helping you out


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

All the Black Templar info you have, I must learn. Only then will my decision to buy the book be made. Are they Armaggedon only? Can their formations be used in standard Apoc games?


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

So, how do haywire weapons effect super heavies? Also, will powers like Puppet Master effect them?


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

I *highly encourage* people to give some rep to anyone who answers questions. They're taking the time to answer them, the least we can do is give them some credit for their efforts.

No, it's not a requirement, but it's a nice way of saying thanks to everyone who helps out.


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

d3m01iti0n said:


> All the Black Templar info you have, I must learn. Only then will my decision to buy the book be made. Are they Armaggedon only? Can their formations be used in standard Apoc games?


The Armageddon War Zone formations are add-ons to the existing formations and such You can use them in standard Apoc Games. This will be true of all further War Zone formations Released as well unless stated otherwise in their rules



Styro-J said:


> So, how do haywire weapons effect super heavies? Also, will powers like Puppet Master effect them?


According to the rules for super-heavies there is no change in the way that haywire weapons hit them. Hits with haywire weapons are resolved as normal. However, Each roll of Explodes on the Vehicle damage chart is instead translated into D3+1 Hull Points lost. Additionally Crew Shaken/Stunned, Immobilized, and Weapon destroyed is ignored and instead is treated as losing a single hull point. Psychic Powers such as puppet master still affect superheavies. I have not seen anything to the contrary in the book.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Awesome, rep to you sir. Of course the Sons of Grimaldus is Hatred:Orks from what I hear, but still good. Think Ill buy the book and start saving for the Thunderhawk......


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Awesome, rep to you sir. Of course the Sons of Grimaldus is Hatred:Orks from what I hear, but still good. Think Ill buy the book and start saving for the Thunderhawk......


All Sword Bertheren Units are Harted (Orks) But they also have Fearless. And when you charge a unit from Codex: Orks all models in the Sons of Grimaldus formation also gets Furious Charge.


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## TheMadRussian (Feb 19, 2011)

Ok so is it me or is the apoc book missing point values for the rest of the fortifications that were released? It only shows the micro battery/missile launcher point costs in my digital copy. Any help here on the rest of the costs?


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

If I recall right, those kits are designed for standard 40K and Apoc. More to the point of your question, their rules for 40K are supplied in the boxes with the kits. So they would only be mentioned in the Apoc book if something is different for Apoc over their 40K rules.


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## Justicar_Bob (Jul 16, 2013)

Grey Knights get any fun toys? I want to know if this is going to hurt my wallet in the long run.


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## TheMadRussian (Feb 19, 2011)

Makes sense I guess still I hate seeing them and not knowing point values of thing. Thanks for the answer.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

That was my thinking on it. One of the ways I judge if I want a kit is how many points it is to field. Sure, I'd like to field Battle Cannon turrets; assuming the point cost is seasonable.


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## Corporal Chaos (Nov 27, 2007)

Can you tell me what the changes are from the first set of rules, mainly any major changes, if it is not too detailed,, or is this a total revamp of the original to be more inline with 6th ed. Thanks in advance.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Are the new fortifications apocalypse only or are they useable in 40k. I need to know from someone who has the card/rules included in the box itself. 

Thanks in advance


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## iamtheeviltwin (Nov 12, 2012)

Ravner298 said:


> Are the new fortifications apocalypse only or are they useable in 40k. I need to know from someone who has the card/rules included in the box itself.


I don't know about all of them, but the Vengeance Weapons batteries are usable in both systems.


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Ok Here we go. I did the best I could on this guys (considering im at work and supposed to be working  )


TheMadRussian said:


> Ok so is it me or is the apoc book missing point values for the rest of the fortifications that were released? It only shows the micro battery/missile launcher point costs in my digital copy. Any help here on the rest of the costs?


As Archon stated the rules for the units are supplied in the box. They may add them to publications when they release more warzone books as well. 


Justicar_Bob said:


> Grey Knights get any fun toys? I want to know if this is going to hurt my wallet in the long run.


Yes and no, Grey knights will be able to use any model that games workshop makes (which would be interesting to see Lord of skulls with a squad of dread knights) They will have access to 3 formations (so far) Brothers of the Flame : Castellan Crowe + 5 Purifier Squads (each squad must be 10 Models and cannot split into combat squads. They may also not take dedicated transports). With that you get Tide of Cleansing Flame which is an additional shooting attack for the formation (not per squad) only Crowe or one of the Knights of the Flame to make the attack. Range: Hellstorm Template Strength: 2 AP: 6 Type: Assault 1, Psi-flame. Psi-flame increases the attack Strength by 1 AND lowers the AP by 1 for every unit in the formation within 12” of the model making the attack. 
On to the Dread knight Brethren. This formation consists of 3-5 Dread Knights with no other restrictions. This formation has the Unstoppable Force Special Rule: At the beginning of the game pick one model from the formation. That model and all other models from this formation within 12” have the Shred special rule
And lastly the Extermination Force: consists of 1 Nemesis Dreadknight and 3-5 Stormraven gunships. The only restrictions are that the Dreadknight MUST have a Heavy Psycannon, and the Gunships MUST have psybolt ammunition. Special Rules: Marked for Extermination: Each turn the Dreadknight can fire a special tracking round instead of his normal weapons. This round has the following Profile: Range: 48” Strength: 7 AP: 4 Type: Heavy 1, Psychic Spoor. Psychic Spoor: A Unit hit by this shot if marked for the remainder of the battle. Marked units are automatically hit by the Formations Stormravens( Blast weapons hit with no scatter). Marker Units with the Daemon Special Rule have their toughness or Armor Value Halved against hits from Mindstrike Missiles and Psybolt Ammunition. 
All in all some nice formations and not too specific either. They are a bit expensive however but it can easily be considered an investment. 


Corporal Chaos said:


> Can you tell me what the changes are from the first set of rules, mainly any major changes, if it is not too detailed,, or is this a total revamp of the original to be more inline with 6th ed. Thanks in advance.


.
I, Unfortunately cannot as I never played the old apocalypse. However From what I have been able to read in the book this was a revamp for much of it to bring it in line with 6th Ed 40K. I wish I could be more specific than that but hopefully someone that has played the old and has the new will be able to answer the question better for you. 


Ravner298 said:


> Are the new fortifications apocalypse only or are they useable in 40k. I need to know from someone who has the card/rules included in the box itself.
> 
> Thanks in advance


All fortification are usable in both Apocalypse Games and normal 40K. Each box set has the rules specific for use in 40K Games. I just unboxed my Aquila Strongpoint and checked  I hope that answers your question.


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## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

Can you give me force requirements for the chaos legion warband formation and the lord of skulls points cost? I'll try help answering questions once i'm back in the uk where my book is waiting.


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

warsmith7752 said:


> Can you give me force requirements for the chaos legion warband formation and the lord of skulls points cost? I'll try help answering questions once i'm back in the uk where my book is waiting.


Certainly. Points for the Lord of Skulls is almost 900 and has the following options: 
Replace Gorestorm cannon with one of these: 
Ichor Cannon
Daemongore Cannon 

May replace Hades Gatlin gun with skull Hurler

Chaos Legionnaire Warband Restrictions:
1 Chaos Lord
3+ Troop Units
2+ Elites Units
Any Number of units from the following
*HQ
*Fast Attack
*Heavy Support

Additionally All models must have Veterans of the Long War Upgrade. If the Chaos Lord has a Mark of Chaos all models in the warband that can have one must have the same mark as the Lord

Hope that answers your question


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I believe, Swedemarine, that your post violates the board policy of no specific points values given.


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Creon said:


> I believe, Swedemarine, that your post violates the board policy of no specific points values given.


Thanks for Pointing that out. Its been fixed.


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## Justicar_Bob (Jul 16, 2013)

SwedeMarine said:


> Yes and no, Grey knights will be able to use any model that games workshop makes (which would be interesting to see Lord of skulls with a squad of dread knights) They will have access to 3 formations (so far) Brothers of the Flame : Castellan Crowe + 5 Purifier Squads (each squad must be 10 Models and cannot split into combat squads. They may also not take dedicated transports). With that you get Tide of Cleansing Flame which is an additional shooting attack for the formation (not per squad) only Crowe or one of the Knights of the Flame to make the attack. Range: Hellstorm Template Strength: 2 AP: 6 Type: Assault 1, Psi-flame. Psi-flame increases the attack Strength by 1 AND lowers the AP by 1 for every unit in the formation within 12” of the model making the attack.
> On to the Dread knight Brethren. This formation consists of 3-5 Dread Knights with no other restrictions. This formation has the Unstoppable Force Special Rule: At the beginning of the game pick one model from the formation. That model and all other models from this formation within 12” have the Shred special rule
> And lastly the Extermination Force: consists of 1 Nemesis Dreadknight and 3-5 Stormraven gunships. The only restrictions are that the Dreadknight MUST have a Heavy Psycannon, and the Gunships MUST have psybolt ammunition. Special Rules: Marked for Extermination: Each turn the Dreadknight can fire a special tracking round instead of his normal weapons. This round has the following Profile: Range: 48” Strength: 7 AP: 4 Type: Heavy 1, Psychic Spoor. Psychic Spoor: A Unit hit by this shot if marked for the remainder of the battle. Marked units are automatically hit by the Formations Stormravens( Blast weapons hit with no scatter). Marker Units with the Daemon Special Rule have their toughness or Armor Value Halved against hits from Mindstrike Missiles and Psybolt Ammunition.
> All in all some nice formations and not too specific either. They are a bit expensive however but it can easily be considered an investment.


Oof. I think my wallet just started crying blood! :shok:


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Yup. But if you can limit yourself to a unit per week ( I use money I've saved since I quit smoking). You will soo have a fairly nice force and that formation is not entirely unreachable within a few months.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Okay. Time for my question.

The new Transcendent C'Tan; is it similar to the old Nightbringer's or Deceiver's rules? Just how powerful is it?


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## Justicar_Bob (Jul 16, 2013)

SwedeMarine said:


> Yup. But if you can limit yourself to a unit per week ( I use money I've saved since I quit smoking). You will soo have a fairly nice force and that formation is not entirely unreachable within a few months.


Oh I agree it's not unreachable, but it's still quite a bit to build and paint specifically to play the game. Also that's a lot of Storm Ravens. Wow. Assault Cannons and Hurricane Bolters with Psybolts then?


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Archon Dan said:


> Okay. Time for my question.
> 
> The new Transcendent C'Tan; is it similar to the old Nightbringer's or Deceiver's rules? Just how powerful is it?


Since i do not have the Old Nightbringer or Decievers stats i can't answer fully. But i can provide the stats and from what i can tell its quite strong.
Powerful Stats as well as some ridicoulsy strong spells such as Seismic Shockwave: Many Long Range Strong shooting attacks. That is essentially a squad killer and has the potential to seriously damage super heavies as well. At a less than 450pts its not a bad deal except the trancendent Must take (and pay) for two ascendant powers(weapons)Im about to head home from work so i will give you some more details once i get home.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Yes, Dr. Manhattan on the battlefield is nasty. Oh, yeah, you mean Transcendant C'tan. My bad


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Yup. But if you can limit yourself to a unit per week ( I use money I've saved since I quit smoking). You will soo have a fairly nice force and that formation is not entirely unreachable within a few months.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

SwedeMarine said:


> Since i do not have the Old Nightbringer or Decievers stats i can't answer fully. But i can provide the stats and from what i can tell its quite strong.


-drools-
Yup, that is basically the old C'Tan. I think it might be more expensive but the powers are better. I want to field one now.


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

Can you give me any details on the Thousand Sons Coven formation? Namely what models are required and what the Coven can do...


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Deneris said:


> Can you give me any details on the Thousand Sons Coven formation? Namely what models are required and what the Coven can do...


Certainly You need 1 Chaos Sorcerers (ML 3) or Ahriman and 3+ chaos sorcerers (ML 1). There are no restrictions to the formation. this give the Storm of change Psychic Choir Power (Warp Charge 2). it is a Witch-fire power and has the following profile. Range 48" S: D AP: 1 Type: Assault X, Blast, Life-drain,Vortex

Life-drain works as follows: each time this power is cast remove up to 3 of the war coven from play. the number removed equals the value of X and therefore the number of Blast Markers Used for the attack.

Did I mention each one is a vortex ?  enjoy


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

SwedeMarine said:


> Certainly You need 1 Chaos Sorcerers (ML 3) or Ahriman and 3+ chaos sorcerers (ML 1). There are no restrictions to the formation. this give the Storm of change Psychic Choir Power (Warp Charge 2). it is a Witch-fire power and has the following profile. Range 48" S: D AP: 1 Type: Assault X, Blast, Life-drain,Vortex
> 
> Life-drain works as follows: each time this power is cast remove up to 3 of the war coven from play. the number removed equals the value of X and therefore the number of Blast Markers Used for the attack.
> 
> Did I mention each one is a vortex ?  enjoy


Damn... Looks like I have to buy the book... :so_happy:


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi there I've a few questions

What are the requirements and benefits for the Masters of the Chapter formation?

What are the benefits for the Devastator Co., Assault Co. and the Wings of Sanguinius formations?

If IG and SM formations are takena s part of a CSM army, then are those units battle brothers?

And finally, can the Armageddon Warzone startegic assets and formations be used in normal games of Apoc, or are they limited to the scenarios in the Warzone chapter of the book?


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

SwedeMarine said:


> Certainly You need 1 Chaos Sorcerers (ML 3) or Ahriman and 3+ chaos sorcerers (ML 1). There are no restrictions to the formation. this give the Storm of change Psychic Choir Power (Warp Charge 2). it is a Witch-fire power and has the following profile. Range 48" S: D AP: 1 Type: Assault X, Blast, Life-drain,Vortex
> 
> Life-drain works as follows: each time this power is cast remove up to 3 of the war coven from play. the number removed equals the value of X and therefore the number of Blast Markers Used for the attack.
> 
> Did I mention each one is a vortex ?  enjoy


What does "vortex" do? Does it create a lasting template? :shok:


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Great Questions Heres the answers 


tu_shan82 said:


> What are the requirements and benefits for the Masters of the Chapter formation?


Masters of the Chapter consists of the following units: 1 Chapter Master
0-1 Honor Guard Squad
4-10 Captains
With the following Restrictions: All units must belong to the same space marine chapter

You get two benefits with this formation: You may choose three additional Strategic assets in their first schedules Break rather than just the one. Secondly, If the chapter master uses the finest hour/sons of the primarch special rules all captains in the formation gain a 3+ invulnerable save until the start of their next turn
Note: Chapter Masters and Captains can be Special characters with their corresponding stats but they must be from the same chapter as the rest of the formation



tu_shan82 said:


> What are the benefits for the Devastator Co., Assault Co. and the Wings of Sanguinius formations?


This is actually a bit fuzzy as there are no direct formations for assault or devastator companies in the book. hopefully the restrictions will explain why but here goes. 
A Space Marine Company formation Must consist of the following:
1 Captain
1 Chaplain
1 Command Squad
3 Dreadnaughts (any type and/or combination)
10 Space Marine Squads
Formation Restrictions: The formation can either represent a Battle Company (BC) or a Reserve Company (RC). A BC must have 6 Tactical Squads, 2 Assault Squads, and 2 Devastator Squads. A RC must have 10 squads of the same type (all assault, or All Devastator, or all tactical, etc...) All Space Marine Squads Must have 10 Models, and the Command Squad Must include the Company Standard. all of these formations with the exception of Wings of Sanguinius convey the following Special rules: *Counter attack*, *Comrades-in-arms*: When a enemy unit declares a charge against a unit in this formation any units within 12" that is in the formation may also fire over-watch (they may only fire over-watch once per turn), *Seize and Control*: All units in formation within 12" of a strategic objective have the Stubborn Special Rule, and finally *Strike Cruiser* the player with this formation has an additional Orbital Strike Strategic Asset. 
Note: Captains can Be special characters but must be from the same Chapter as the formation.

Wings of Sanguinius is as follows:
1 Captain
1 Chaplian
0-1 The Sanguinor
1 Honorguard or 1 Sanguinary Guard Squad
10 Assault Squads
Restrictions: All Assault squads must have 10 Models. All Models must have Jump packs. No unit may have dedicated transports.

Special Rules: 
*Airborne Assault:* All units in formation have *Deep Strike* and *Descent of Angels* special rules. If the formation is held in strategic reserve it can come in at the start of *ANY* turn including the enemys'
*Caught unawares:* All units from the formation have the *Shrouded* Special rule on the turn they deepstrike



tu_shan82 said:


> If IG and SM formations are takena s part of a CSM army, then are those units battle brothers?


Here is some clarification straight from the book

" The players on a side each command their own army, and all armies on the same side are treated as allies, Armies from the same codex that are commanded by different players cout each other as Battle Brothers for the purposes of the allies rules. Armies that, according to the Allies Matrix, Ally only, 'Come the Apocalypse' count each other as Desperate Allies."



tu_shan82 said:


> And finally, can the Armageddon Warzone strategic assets and formations be used in normal games of Apoc, or are they limited to the scenarios in the Warzone chapter of the book?


Strategic assets from the Warzone Armageddon Supplement are only usable in games of Warzone: Armageddon Apocalypse. Formations however are usable in standard Apocalypse Games.

Hope this helped, Let me know if you need clarification on anything.


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Deneris said:


> What does "vortex" do? Does it create a lasting template? :shok:


its a Strength D template weapon (which is ridiculous.) After resolving woulds from a Votrex hit the template is left in play and at the beginning of each subsequent player turn scatters 2D6" (direct hits are dicounted and uses the little arrow on the Dice) Any models under the new location is hit as previously stated. Rolls of a double when scattering removes the Vortex template from play.


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

SwedeMarine said:


> its a Strength D template weapon (which is ridiculous.) After resolving woulds from a Votrex hit the template is left in play and at the beginning of each subsequent player turn scatters 2D6" (direct hits are dicounted and uses the little arrow on the Dice) Any models under the new location is hit as previously stated. Rolls of a double when scattering removes the Vortex template from play.


So I could pop out 3 vortexes a turn? :shok:


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Unless there is a rule i have missed then yes you could. ork and guard players would love you


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

SwedeMarine said:


> Great Questions Heres the answers
> Here is some clarification straight from the book
> 
> " The players on a side each command their own army, and all armies on the same side are treated as allies, Armies from the same codex that are commanded by different players cout each other as Battle Brothers for the purposes of the allies rules. Armies that, according to the Allies Matrix, Ally only, 'Come the Apocalypse' count each other as Desperate Allies."


Apperntly there's a box somewhere in the book thta specifically states that any and all IG and SM fromations can be taken as part of a Chaos army, and any vehicle formation in the book can be taken by orks. So the main thing I need clarification for is what are the benefits of doing this as opposed to just taking them as allies, which you can do in Apoc anyway if I'm correct, ie are units chosenin this way treated as Battle Brothers or is there some other benefit that I can't think of. It just seems odd to have that in the book if there is noextra beneift to be gained when these formations can be taken anyway. 



SwedeMarine said:


> Hope this helped, Let me know if you need clarification on anything.


It certainly did help, quit a lot actually. Rep added.


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

tu_shan82 said:


> Apperntly there's a box somewhere in the book thta specifically states that any and all IG and SM fromations can be taken as part of a Chaos army, and any vehicle formation in the book can be taken by orks. So the main thing I need clarification for is what are the benefits of doing this as opposed to just taking them as allies, which you can do in Apoc anyway if I'm correct, ie are units chosenin this way treated as Battle Brothers or is there some other benefit that I can't think of. It just seems odd to have that in the book if there is noextra beneift to be gained when these formations can be taken anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> It certainly did help, quit a lot actually. Rep added.


OK heres the skinny on that.

Chaos is allowed to field IG and SM as traitor versions. Essentially they retain all formation bonuses and since they are traitors they are treated as battle brothers. 

Orks can indeed take any other armys formation as they are notorious for looting. let me know if i need to clarify any points.


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

SwedeMarine said:


> There is no official model for this altar. It is essentially an objective marker (which can be made however you wish technically). The Asset needs to be used before deployment and allows the chaos player to placer a marker within their deployment zone to represent a ritual altar (no full model is needed). All friendly Chaos units within 12" of this marker had a 6+ invulnerable save. If that already have and invulnerable save they add +1 to it. You can certainly still use the old temple of skulls terrain if there is room for it but distance has to be measured from the center of the model(unless you place a marker on that specific terrain). other than that it does not count as a building (although you can place it in one if you have buildings in your deployment zone).


So wait a sec... if I park a unit of Rubrics (4+ Invuln) near the altar, they get a 3+? And my Sorcerer lord with a 3+ goes to 2+? :shok:


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Deneris said:


> So wait a sec... if I park a unit of Rubrics (4+ Invuln) near the altar, they get a 3+? And my Sorcerer lord with a 3+ goes to 2+? :shok:


That my friend is exactly right. now just imagine that formation parked in that same area  that's alot of Hate (and vortexes)


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

SwedeMarine said:


> That my friend is exactly right. now just imagine that formation parked in that same area  that's alot of Hate (and vortexes)


You read my mind :wink:


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

what do you guys think about capt lysanders formation, im looking at building it for my fists


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

kickboxerdog said:


> what do you guys think about capt lysanders formation, im looking at building it for my fists


I think it sounds like alot of Angry terminators who really do not like super heavies. Its an awesome way to tie up or even destroy a superheavy within a few turns. All in all id say its more than worth it.


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Deneris said:


> Originally Posted by SwedeMarine
> That my friend is exactly right. now just imagine that formation parked in that same area that's alot of Hate (and vortexes)






Deneris said:


> You read my mind


If we ever have the chance to play a game together... remind me to either not accept or to be on your side


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

SwedeMarine said:


> If we ever have the chance to play a game together... remind me to either not accept or to be on your side


The Ebon Fists go traitor? :wink: I may have to add a chained up Ebon fist Librarian as a Coven thrall...


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Unfortunately my psychic choir is lacking in personnel. I might let you tie up a servitor or two though.


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