# Sixth Edition - Thousand Sons



## MidnightSun

6th has changed Thousand Sons quite a lot. This is more a train-of-thought post, listing what I think are the beneficial and detrimental changes to the rules regarding the Sons of Magnus.

*Rapid Fire*
Now everyone can shoot 24" when they move, which was one of the major selling points of Thousand Sons before. True, it wasn't killing armies, but it was at least something. This ability has now been made less 'special', being available to everyone.

*Force Weapons*
Still insta-gib, but only AP3. Unless of course you take a Force Axe, in which case you strike last (but you do have 3 Str 5 attacks), or you can run fluffy with the Force Staff (Concussive, Bedlam Staff anyone?). Overall, a minor nerf down to AP3, but as everyone else has been nerfed as well, not as major as it sounds.

*AP3*
Far more common now with Power Weapons being AP3. Not really sure on this, is the nerf to Power Weapons making Inferno Bolts better ('They're like Power Weapons that you shoot!'), or worse because more people will take Terminators now that Terminators are a. more survivable and b. can run people down (no srsly, Terminator Armour just gives you a 2+, 5++, Bulky and Relentless now, no rules about being unable to run down. Not sure how running down in combat works in 6th though, correct me if I'm wrong).

*Cover*
Cover commonly being reduced to 5+ is great, as the Thousand Son Invulnerable actually comes into play now. I think that this is a pretty major bump, especially if you take Allies to add Fateweaver for 4++ re-rollables (I'll be adding Fateweaver to a Terminator-heavy list, maybe with Icons of Tzeentch to make Hammernators, but betterer)

*Multiple FOC*
More a change to entire armies, and less useful for Imperial than for Xenos (about time!), but at anything above 1,999 points you can double all your FOC slots on top of any Allies. I see this being used to take 4x Lash, 7x Pavane lists (4 Sorcerors, 4 Heralds, 3 Princes) and 7+ Tervigons, but it does give us the option for more support that Thousand Sons desperately need. The enemy gets more too, but it's worth thinking about.

*Psychic Powers*
The Aspiring Sorceror is now worth a damn, as he'll only ever be 75pts maximum. Nobody in their right mind would take anything other than Doombolt as the compulsory power and then simply choose powers from the Pyromancy or Telepathy disciplines (Telekinesis might have potential, but from the look of it you could do better). 

Speaking of powers, the Aspiring Sorceror is one of the best we can get, being more accomplished than any basic HQ outside of Special Characters, and only then Ahriman. I'm going to go with Pyromancy on my Aspiring Sorceror because from the two mini-games I've played to practice 6th, Pyromancy seems to be a solid discipline, and as the Sorceror is level two, you've a pretty good chance of rolling Molten Beam or doubles with which to choose Molten Beam, or another useful power. The only ones I wouldn't really want are the two Blessings, although having a Str 6 Force Weapon (Str 7 for a Force Axe, Str 8 for a Staff IIRC!) that causes Soublaze is far from bad. For those that don't know, Soulblaze means that if you cause a successful wound on a unit, they roll a D6 every turn. On a 3+, they take D3+1 Str 4 AP 5 hits ignoring cover, if they roll a 1-2 the fire goes out.

Telepathy could be very nice though as you'll always get at least one good power. Ideally you want doubles or a 6 and something else, as Hallucination and Psychic Shriek are both great (Shriek is essentially the Doom of Malan'tai 3D6-LD-and-die-by-how-much-you-fail power, but with a 12" range and with a single unit to target).

Any other thoughts?

Midnight


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## bastex

MidnightSun said:


> and as the Sorceror is level two, you've a pretty good chance of rolling Molten Beam or doubles with which to choose Molten Beam


eum the sorcerer is a lvl1 but can pick 2 powers....


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## MidnightSun

bastex said:


> eum the sorcerer is a lvl1 but can pick 2 powers....


Mark of Tzeentch if you can pick two powers, you get two powers on the table, which is more than can be said for the majority of psykers. Point still stands, you get two rolls on the table.

Sorcerors can cast 2 powers a turn, does that not make him a level 2?

Midnight


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## Barnster

The other thing to consider is the bonus sons now have in resisting psykers, deny the witch

not a massive bonus but if you go against a lot a magic heavy armies, eg zoanthropes, eldar storm, gks could save a few marines


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## bastex

chaos faq:
Q:what psychic mastery level is a sorcerer of chaos?
A: mastery level 1

so basicly like a regular libby
read the faq m8


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## The Sturk

Not that it matters, but Termies were always relentless anyway. And Bulky just means they take up 2 spaces in a transport.

The 1 shot at 24" alone is enough to make regular marines cry.


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## MidnightSun

bastex said:


> chaos faq:
> Q:what psychic mastery level is a sorcerer of chaos?
> A: mastery level 1
> 
> so basicly like a regular libby
> read the faq m8


Thousand Sons have their Aspiring Sorcerors. Mark of Tzeentch means you can cast two powers per turn, thus making you mastery level 2. Read the Codex, 'mate'.

Midnight


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## bastex

opening my codex ><
the aspiring sorcerer is a psycher and *must* be given one Psychic power 

maybe im blind but it say nowhere that he has 2 powers maybe he has just the one bcouse of the mark ? (bcouse at the regular corcerer and dp it stated u can have 2 whit the mot )

and having 2 powers and using 2 powers are 2 totaly diffent thing bcouse u can choose 2 doesnt mean u can use 2 a turn unless stated (like ahriman)

thats my 5 cents


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## MidnightSun

Page 88, Codex: Chaos Space Marines:
'The only exception to this is a model with the Mark of Tzeentch, which can attempt to use up to two psychic powers per player turn.'

Thus, models with the Mark of Tzeentch are all Level 2 Mastery Psykers.

Midnight


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## bastex

ok i missed that (maybe bcouse i dont play psykers whit my ironwarriors lol) but i think its kinda hard to do 2 psychic powers when u are only allowed one (so u have a lvl 2 whit 1 psychic power well it sounds odd)


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## MidnightSun

Unless of course I'm wrong and it merely lets you use your Force Weapon + another power, in which case I'll be running around with Str 6 ID.

Midnight


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## bastex

or use one psychic power that burns 2 warp charges 

lol we both called it wrong cant wait till they faq the rule book lol


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## Barnster

The way it always was, was that you could take 1 power and cast 2 spells

So you got 1 power + your FW

how this translate to new mastery I'm unsure, maybe the sorc will be mastery 1 and MoT gives him a bonus warp charge?


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## MidnightSun

I thought the whole point of mastery 2 was that you could cast two powers. That's why Ahriman is mastery 3, because he can cast three powers. Same with Eldrad.

Midnight


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## Steaknchips

> BRB P 66
> "In older codexes, Mastery Level may be written out long hand in the form of a special rule that allows the Psyker to use more than one psychic power each turn - the number of powers that can be used per turn is their Mastery level."
> 
> Chaos Marine Codex
> "Models with the Mark of Tzeentch may use two psychic powers per turn."


So they get one power and a mastery level of two. Can use that power and use their force weapon and get a decent stop against powers used on their unit.


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## falcoso

Well they would get 2 warp charge a turn, so you could use a more powerful power i guess. Personally I don't think that Thousand sons have bee directly effected much, except maybe slow and purposful being a move6'' no running, which is kind of good, the rest is everyone else being made a bit better or worse. Personally I don't like the fact that rapid fire is full range to everyone now, as you said that was the big selling point.

However I don't think my style of play with them is going to change that much with them specifically. I still love them, Ap 3 bolters - what's not to love.


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## bixeightysix

This topic is pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Because some of these same things were going through my head. The Mastery Level 2 Aspiring Sorcerer is pretty nice, honestly. And from what I can tell on Paper, Ahriman is nothing to shake a stick at either. I definitely want to play test some games with Thousand Sons and "see" how the changes affect them. Just reading it never works for me. Sometimes something looks great on paper and then I play and it turns out not so great. Thanks again for the post Midnight.


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## MidnightSun

Well, I now have the book in front of me.

They're Mastery Level 2, as fair as I can tell, but can only generate one power per turn. This is much more random now, so I imagine I'll be taking Telepathy and swapping out Dominate, Mental Fortitude and maybe Terrify for Psychic Shriek. Other option is Pyromancy, but Flame Breath is just a slightly-better-than-average Heavy Flamer.

SnP stops you Overwatching, which is pretty shitty, and Perils of the Warp simply takes off a wound now, no chance of this 4++ actually happening 

On the other hand, I see no restrictions on bringing along Battlefield Debris Chaos Shrines to give me 4++ re-rollables.

Still going to take them for a couple of games, see how well they actually do. Psychic Shriek _is_ a great Primaris Power, after all, for only 10 points. If it doesn't work? Meh, Daemons will fix it.

Midnight


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## davidmumma66

After beating Tau/DA mix two days in a row the Thousand Sons are looking pretty good, maxing Ahriman on pyromancy allows him to make the best use of his ability to use more than one power that counts as a shooting attack in a turn, and who can honestly say spontaneous combustion is not a fun power (especially against kroot in a woods that grants the +1 cover-save, on top of their already +1 in woods). The other fun option, is with the double force org, you can get 4 mastery level 3 sorcerers, 1 base, +1 for mark of tzeench, and the familiar grants 1 level, as far as my understanding goes, because Hurons familiar makes him mastery level 1. The only thing that's no bueno is we don't gain over-watch, but our bolters are better with cover down to a 5+ and our 4++ looks much nicer than before. Overall, except my rhinos dying pretty early on leading me to have to foot-slog, we're doing pretty well in this addition.


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## MidnightSun

Unfortunately, the Hamadrya is special, but the run of the mill Familiar was FAQ'ed NOT to give you an extra level. Presumable having four Eldrad-level psykers was deemed overpowered by the design team, and who can honestly blame them?

I'm still not sure on Disciplines. I thought Psychic Shriek was an absolute steal, until realizing that it's usually only going to cause one or two kills. Of course, you can get very lucky, or synergize it to hell for cool effects, but apart from that it's not necessarily better than, for example, Fiery Breath.

I thought that Assail was a terrible power. Really, really bad. A single AP- Multi-Laser shot at 18" that, whilst being able to hit more than one dude, gets rapidly worse and becomes fairly useless when you hit three dudes or more. 

But then I looked at Strikedown again. It triggers on saved wounds as well, and whilst you can move individual models in a unit now rather than the whole unit, you're forcing Difficult Terrain checks if the unit wants to move the dudes that got wounded (a 2+ roll if you're canny with placement). And you can hit the dude you really want - smack it at an Ork Nob in his Boyz squad. Now if they want their Power Klaw moving up, they're in Difficult Terrain. Hit the Meltagunner. If they want to get into tank-killing range, they're going through Difficult Terrain. Hit anyone you like in an assault unit and they're charging on 3D6, picking the two lowest.

I really am liking the look of Telekinesis - for one, because it's an awesome mental image, for two, because it's rare to roll up a crap power. Crush is very random as a D6/2D6-based Focussed Witchfire but will average out very nicely, despite the low chances of hitting the guy you want. Gate of Infinity is the same power we know and love, and is actually better now, especially on Thousand Sons. A unit of Invulnerable-saved MEQs appearing behind you to mow down your precious modesl you hid at the rear with AP3 Bolters needs playtesting, but I reckon it'll be quite nasty with some tinkering. 

Objuration Mechanicum is comedy gold, any effectively immunizes you from Precision Strikes and Rending. Shockwave is the dud power, but you can swap out for Assail. Telekine Dome is sweet as it goes onto a unit within 12", not the psyker's unit, so I'm giving by basic CSM 5+ Invulnerables that, if they save any damage with, bounce shots back a la Dispersion Shields. Vortex of Doom is only slightly changed, now blowing you up on a failed Psychic Test, not on Perils (although Perils now auto-kills the Aspiring Sorceror). Thousand Sons are, of course, Slow and Purposeful, so they can fire Vortex on the move. It's also a fiendish anti-tank weapon now as the hole doesn't have to be on the vehicle and AP1 gives you a +2 on the damage chart.

So yeah, Telekinesis. That's not the say the other options aren't worth it, but I'm definitely leaning towards this discipline over Telepathy (too many duds - having to take Leadership isn't worth much with all the Marines and Fearless dudes running around) and Pyromancy (which is probably equally good but I'm more a Raptorae man than a Pyrae).

Midnight


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## falcoso

Pah we have technology on our side... I hope. Personally I think psycic shreik is a good power, its only really against necrons they aren't going to do much, but only have gloom prisms to help deny the witch. Against something like Nids, that would be amazing, oh a hoarde of 30 gaunts, I have to roll more than a 5 with 3 dice to take a wound off you so


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## MidnightSun

Uuh, falc, it's not roll more than a 5 to do a wound. It's for every point above 5 you score on 3D6, you do a wound. Dunno if this needed clarifying, but it's there.

Personally, vs. Necrons, I'd go for Telekinesis. It's rare that a power is rolled that won't be any good to you - Shockwave is pretty much tripe as I say, but just about everything else is pretty awesome. Objuration Mechanicum springs to mind here - Synaptic Disintegrators having to re-roll Precision Strikes and Rends, an automatic glance/pen on a Flyer (Malediction so no roll to hit!), etc. 

Crush can get rid of annoying Crypteks/Lords without having to face scary things like Sempiternal Weave/Warscythe or Mindshackle Scarab Lords, Vortex is a great anti-everything power (AP 1 Blasts and AP3 Bolters equals dead Necrons). Gate of Infinity is just letting me take my own Veil of Darkness with slightly more risk from the double-dice-kills-a-dude, but that's unlikely to happen anyways. Telekine Shield is fantastic against a gauss-heavy army, effectively giving one vehicle per turn a 5++ save that rebounds shots onto nearby enemies (and saves 1/3 of Scarab attacks, but they still get Entropy). Assail is pretty cool, as it forces Destroyers into Dangerous Terrain checks, and makes a Lychguard unit or whatever slower and therefore easier to deal with.

Midnight


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## davidmumma66

Against Necrons pyromancy is even better, with the blinding powers and necrons if they fail the initiative test dropping their bs to 1 is a huge boon, and at i2 they're probably failing


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## LukeValantine

God tactica for sixth midnight. I also picked up on the mastery level two thing, but I take it on my tzeentchian DP. As it gives me the option to run him as something other then a proxy for a lash prince. 

Not sure if you mentioned this but some of the best powers also require mastery level two minimum to use (The ones everyone is afraid of). So other then Ahriman tzeentchian asp's and DP's are the only way to get those precious 2 warp charges.


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## Voss

MidnightSun said:


> Unfortunately, the Hamadrya is special, but the run of the mill Familiar was FAQ'ed NOT to give you an extra level. Presumable having four Eldrad-level psykers was deemed overpowered by the design team, and who can honestly blame them?


True, but it does give you another power to swap, which is useful in its own right (both in terms of tactical options and better odds of getting what you want). Shame all the cheap powers are gone by that point.


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## MidnightSun

I don't like Mark of Tzeentch because you're paying at least 55pts (MoT + Warptime/Bolt, next cheapest powers) for one roll on the Discipline chart. If you're taking a Sorceror with Doombolt, Mark of Tzeentch, a Familiar, Bolt of Change and Warptime to give you three powers to swap in, why not buy Ahriman for another 50pts or so? He's Mastery 3, so can cast a Warp Charge 2 spell and another Warp Charge 1, can cast three Warp Charge 1 powers because of his Black Staff, as well as being able to Deny even Level 2 powers on a 4+.

Oh, he also gets Inferno Bolts, and has kickass fluff and a kickass model.

Midnight


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## Ravner298

davidmumma66 said:


> After beating Tau/DA mix two days in a row the Thousand Sons are looking pretty good, maxing Ahriman on pyromancy allows him to make the best use of his ability to use more than one power that counts as a shooting attack in a turn.


Catching up on my forum reading after being away for a week, quick note on this.

Ahriman was FAQ'd long ago to only be able to use 1 PSA (or....witchfire.....I think) attack a turn regardless of his rules. It simply allowed him to use warptime and his force weapon in addition to shooting attack in the same turn. In 6th, unless they took his leash off and I am still unaware of it, this translates to only 1 witchfire spell a turn still, but grants him the ability to cast buffs and/or use his force weapon accordingly.

I was pretty upset to see the sons not getting divination (hands down the best lore) or biomancy, as they were the fore runners of those schools of magic as well in the HH series....but balance and etc I suppose. Molten beam is fun, although difficult to use with its LOS restrictions in conjuncture with positioning to ensure his survival from shooting (and only being able to fire it every other turn due to its warp charge cost).

If ahriman didnt have such a large price tag I'd probably give him another look as well.


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## Mud213

One thing to note is that difficult terrain tests aren't as scary as they used to be since you can take armor saves against failed dangerous terrain tests. Still bad against Orks but not so much against Destroyers or the like.


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## Iron_Freak220

Ravner298 said:


> Catching up on my forum reading after being away for a week, quick note on this.
> 
> Ahriman was FAQ'd long ago to only be able to use 1 PSA (or....witchfire.....I think) attack a turn regardless of his rules. It simply allowed him to use warptime and his force weapon in addition to shooting attack in the same turn. In 6th, unless they took his leash off and I am still unaware of it, this translates to only 1 witchfire spell a turn still, but grants him the ability to cast buffs and/or use his force weapon accordingly.


Ahriman got FAQ'd to only be allowed to fire a _particular_ psychic shooting attack once per turn as opposed to being able to only fire one PSA per phase. 

So Ahriman could not fire doombolt 3 times per turn but could fire doombolt and bolt of change in the same shooting phase.


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