# Garviel Loken



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

OK, I just got this crazy idea that I want to convert myself a Loken model. 

But what mark of armor does he wear? Does he have some extra stuff on it that every Captain and their five year old seems to have?


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, he would probably use Mark IV Maximus armor. He would be in the sea green Sons of Horus colors and have an "oath of moment" document on his shoulderpad.


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## tsne16487 (Aug 5, 2011)

Unless you wanted to make the Garviel Loken who helped to initiate the Grey Knights Chapter.

It would mean way cooler looking armour than the Luna Wolves/Son of Horus that he was.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

I want to replicate him as he looked while being a Luna Wolf. Say around the taking of sixty-three nineteen.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

*bump*

Anyone?


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

He wore very low key armour (compared to say Ediolon). Maximus (or Mark IV) power armour, with an oath of moment and his helm had the crescent symbol of his Mournveil position. He used a chainsword, bolter and gladius.


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## oiad (Feb 10, 2011)

As Rems said above. Here's a picture.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I always imagine the crest going the other way, front to back as it were. I know its the wrong way but in my mind it looks much cooler.


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

Here is a Lokan Related opinion question. 



*spoiler*


If Abbadon was in normal power armor would Lokan have defeated him? Lokan would probably have delivered a death blow with his chain sword but it couldnt get through the terminator armor. On the other hand, terminator armor slows the wearer down and Lokan mentioned that he was still amazingly fast with his bulkier armor. Would Lokan have fared better? Would his defeat been even more decisive since he was hurt and Abbadon would be faster?


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

That image that *oiad* posted is about how I'd imagine him. he'd have the crest because he's a captain and I don't imagine the Luna Wolves having to many blingy bitz on their armour. 

Where did that image come from? it's pretty good.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

JelloSea said:


> Here is a Lokan Related opinion question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most likely not, Abaddon was a superior warrior.


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## tsne16487 (Aug 5, 2011)

Im not sure Abbaddon was that much of a superior warrior, he was maybe better but not SUPERIOR, that kind of infers that Loken was no where near as good.

Yet it was Loken who drove his company to the false Emperors palace in Horus Rising, and even Abbaddon had to admit he was a great warrior. Loken took the prize that Abbaddon had expected by beating Abbaddon and the first to the target.

Also Lucius was perhaps one of the greatest swordsman in the entirety of all the legions, yet Loken bested him in the practice cages. In fact it was Loken who broke his nose and gave him his first scars.

Overall it would have been a good fight if they were in same armour, but they werent and Abbaddon took his licks also. Abbaddon was listed as being a huge marine even by Astartes standard and was a renowned warrior known by all the legions. I still think he would have beaten Loken, but either way Loken is no pushover, and probs my favourite character from the first trilogy of novels.

You have to have his Oath of moment on that he was remembranced receiving before the heresy began, its kind of one of the strongest images from the first few books.

Before it all went to shit.

However a fight I would like to see would be Grand Master Loken of the Grey Knights taking on a demon infused Abbaddon, that would be a corker.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

We don't actually have any hard evidence that Loken becomes a founding member of the Grey Knights. Besides he doesn't have any psychic powers, somewhat of a necessity i would have thought.


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## Machiavellismx (Sep 11, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Most likely not, Abaddon was a superior warrior.


Agreed. While Loken was no doubt a superb warrior, Abaddon is exceptional. 

Loken did beat Lucius in the practice cages, but Lucius was under the impression it was a duel before Loken sucker-punched him, telling him how the Luna Wolves fight is do what's necessary, find their opponents weaknesses and exploit them. I'm sure Lucius and Loken met another time to, and didn't Loken lose, showing that Lucius had taken on board his lesson from last time? I'm sure I remember reading that.

Anyway, I feel there is no doubt Abaddon was the superior of the two. In the Horus Heresy starting trilogy it is centred around Loken and his exploits. Had books been centred around Abaddon I think we'd see just how ferocious he is; you don't become leader of the Black Legion without being the best.


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

Though I love Garvi, we do have to remember he was quite injured when they fought. Which could be used for or against him in this argument.


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## tsne16487 (Aug 5, 2011)

As far As Garviel and his Psyker ability, he most certainly did have. Many many times in the book he had hunches, feelings that something wasnt right, or that something was about to happen, and then BAM, something did happen.

Now this may not be direct Psychic ability but certainly latent psychic ability. 

As far as Loken not being a founding member of the grey knights, youre right there is no direct evidence of this. But we do know that Malcador sent Garro to Istvaan III with the intention of recruiting another member of his secret project.

We know that Loken was the only survivor of Istvaan III, and we know that Malcadors secret project was the creation of the Grey Knights and Inquisition.

Its pretty safe to say that Loken was recruited to be part of the Grey Knights.

As far as his battle with Abbaddon, yes he had been betrayed and fought, virus bombed and fought, attacked and fought, had been injured, and the Istvaan III assault lasted several months. Abbaddon had spent that entire time on Horus Flagship and was fresh as a daisy when he fought Loken. I still think Abbaddon would have won but it would have been close.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I'm not so sure. Aximand and the others seem to believe Loken is their best duelist:
"You're the best of us with a blade" Little Horus insisted


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

Would a fresh Loken fared far better? I has been a long time since I read the first 3 books but I think I remember reading Loken say in normal armor Abbadon was far faster.

I deffinetly remember that Loken would have killed Abbadon with a blow to the chest had Abbadon not been wearing his Terminator armor. The things to think about are:

Loken was hurt
Loken would have struck a death blow, perhaps 2
Loken was hurt
Abbadon was fresh
Abbadon was in armor that a chain sword could not get though
Abbadon was noticeably slower in his terminator armor.


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## oiad (Feb 10, 2011)

Lol, Loken hurt x2 for good measure. 

On the GK subject, It's worth noting that at most Garro & his Knights Sigillite will likely, if at all, only become mentors to the first wave of Grey Knights - not actual Grey Knights. Resisting the taint, remaining loyal, fighting chaos and traitors - all things they have experience dealing with and all are things that will be invaluable to a new chapter with no experience and whom have been created to handle such things.

*EDIT* - BTW, cheers locustgate.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

tsne16487 said:


> As far As Garviel and his Psyker ability, he most certainly did have. Many many times in the book he had hunches, feelings that something wasnt right, or that something was about to happen, and then BAM, something did happen.
> 
> Now this may not be direct Psychic ability but certainly latent psychic ability.


Certainly this has nothing to do with his finely honed super-senses. I would imagine that many, many marines get 'hunches' as a result of a) being genetically engineered to have super-sense and b) having decades or centuries of combat experience



> We know that Loken was the only survivor of Istvaan III, and we know that Malcadors secret project was the creation of the Grey Knights and Inquisition.
> 
> Its pretty safe to say that Loken was recruited to be part of the Grey Knights.


Weren't the Grey Knights founded much latter than the Heresy? I thought I remembered it being the Reign of Blood or something.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Enough of Loken, Where is Tarvitz


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Talk about derailing a thread about Lokens armor?


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## tsne16487 (Aug 5, 2011)

Hmm, could be the super senses thing making him more reactive, but it didnt seem to work for other marines at that time, it was always written as if he knew something was going to happen. Heightened senses and marine gene-seed dont say anything about causing ESP type effects, but I guess it could have been that.

Never the less he was still specifically recruited into Malcadors secret venture, which would turn out to be the grey knights.

And the Grey Knights were definitely created during the Heresy, as it was malcador that hid them in the warp so that Horus wouldnt find them as they were starting out. They appeared from the warp after the Horus Heresy had ended, but owing to time in the warp moving faster, they already had a full chapter strength of 1000 Knights, as opposed to the handful that were hidden by Malcador.

If they had been created after the Heresy then Malcador would have been dead and would not have been around to hide them in the warp. He gave up his body and power to allow the Emperor to be placed on the Golden Throne at the end of the heresy.


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## tsne16487 (Aug 5, 2011)

Doelago said:


> Talk about derailing a thread about Lokens armor?


Lol, yeah I guess alot of peoples favourite character form the early HH novels was Loken, but as far as the issue of his armour, I think the picture posted earlier in the thread is about the image I have of him in my head.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

JelloSea said:


> Would a fresh Loken fared far better?


"Abbadon pushed Loken back, the first captains strength _easily greater than his._" 

Probably not all that much better.


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## tsne16487 (Aug 5, 2011)

Doelago said:


> "Abbadon pushed Loken back, the first captains strength _easily greater than his._"
> 
> Probably not all that much better.


Hmm perhaps, perhaps not. Physical strength or size does not decide the outcome of mortal combat. Also his strength was boosted by the terminator armour over normal astarted power armour.

Loken was a formidable warrior, and possibly Abbaddon would still have bested him. It is worth pointing out though that Loken was singled out because of his combat ability and his ability to win battles and read the battle and adapt. Whereas Abbaddon was noted for his rage and furious combat ability.

Rogal Dorn himself spoke on Lokens behalf after seeing him in battle, and recommended to Horus his promotion to the Mournival.

Also Horus himself recommended Abbaddon take the Justaerin with him for backup, Horus recognised what a dangerous opponenet Loken would be for his first Captain.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

tsne16487 said:


> Rogal Dorn himself spoke on Lokens behalf after seeing him in battle, and recommended to Horus his promotion to the Mournival.


No, not because of his combat abilities. Rogal Dorn wanted a voice of reason into the mournival. Read the naysmith talk between Kyril and Loken in Horus Rising.


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

battle does not necessarily mean toe to toe fighting, it involves tactics and junk and stuff lol.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Personally, I got the impression Horus didn't expect Abaddon to simply roll over Loken otherwise he wouldn't of offered the Terminators to go with him.


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

If only Loken had a plasma pistol with him.


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

Alsojames said:


> If only Loken had a plasma pistol with him.


Then he could have blown his hand off and be done with it.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Personally, I got the impression Horus didn't expect Abaddon to simply roll over Loken otherwise he wouldn't of offered the Terminators to go with him.


Just because you expect someone to win is no reason to send them in alone. The Justaerin weren't particularly needed for anything else, Loken might not have been alone and the outcome of an idividual battle is impossible to predict. Horus might have believed Abaddon would steam-roll Loken but he's a smart enough guy to realize that Abaddon might trip, or have a suit malfunction, or something that would give Loken the opportunity to win and plan accordingly.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Although once again, Loken was considered to be the best duelist within the Luna Wolves, makes sense that Horus might have had some doubts, no matter how small


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Well, if I remember correctly, one of the short stories in _Age of Darkness_, _Savage Weapons_, mentioned Abaddon as being one of the greatest warriors among all the legions. The one Dark Angel was remarking that there were probably less than 20 other Astartes who could take him in a fight and Abaddon was one of them.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

And was Abaddon not the only one who (along with Horus Lupercal) survived the clash with the greenskin warboss on Ullanor?


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## Lord Lorne Walkier (Jul 19, 2009)

tsne16487 said:


> As far As Garviel and his Psyker ability, he most certainly did have. Many many times in the book he had hunches, feelings that something wasnt right, or that something was about to happen, and then BAM, something did happen.
> 
> Now this may not be direct Psychic ability but certainly latent psychic ability.


I am so glad to hear i am not the only one out on this limb. I will take it a steap further and give examples of Loken's Latent psyker powers.

1) In GiF when Loken joins the mournvaul he has a vision of the future. Read this scene again with the knowledge he will live past Istvaan III and might be a fouding Grey Knight. He try's to see his own death but can't. He settles on his near death momunts. He sees himself left for dead on Istvaan III. He can sense the ceremony and recoils against it.

2) His first duel with Lucius. He did a precog strike on him. He read the strands of the future and knew what Lucius was going to do. 

3) When Loken finds the temple on the Vengeful Spirit. He senses the power of the place and then he fights off the control of the book of Lorgar, with the strength of mind and his anger. 

4) Cerberus. What ever walls were blocking his psyker powers were broken down after spending 4+ years alone on Istvaan III. Alone with a planet full of plague bearers. The Strength of his mind was strongly hinted at in the Audio book Legion of One.


tsne16487 said:


> As far as Loken not being a founding member of the grey knights, youre right there is no direct evidence of this. But we do know that Malcador sent Garro to Istvaan III with the intention of recruiting another member of his secret project.
> 
> We know that Loken was the only survivor of Istvaan III, and we know that Malcadors secret project was the creation of the Grey Knights and Inquisition.
> 
> Its pretty safe to say that Loken was recruited to be part of the Grey Knights.


We do not know Loken was the ONLY survivor. The fate of Tarvitz, Rylanor ect has yet to be finalized. I do agree that it is clear Garro, Loken, Veran, Rubio will be apart of the 8 Astartes taken by Malcador to the Emperor. I also add Arvida, Tarrasch, Qruze, Tarvitz to my list.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord Lorne Walkier said:


> I am so glad to hear i am not the only one out on this limb. I will take it a steap further and give examples of Loken's Latent psyker powers.
> 
> 1) In GiF when Loken joins the mournvaul he has a vision of the future. Read this scene again with the knowledge he will live past Istvaan III and might be a fouding Grey Knight. He try's to see his own death but can't. He settles on his near death momunts. He sees himself left for dead on Istvaan III. He can sense the ceremony and recoils against it.
> 
> ...


None of the above explicitly suggests psychic ability. If Loken was always intended to be a Grey Knight I imagine the authors would have included implicit examples of a potential or latent psychic talent in the novels. Most of the above can be credited to simply being intuition.


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## Machiavellismx (Sep 11, 2011)

I believe Loken becoming a Grey Knight was an after-thought of the writers, to ressurect a popular hero from the first trilogy of the Horus Heresy.

Personally, I kind of wish he had stayed dead  the reason being that when Loken was killed, it really struck a chord with me of how far Horus and the others had truly fallen. We really got to know Loken over the three novels, and his death felt like an actual tragedy, an example of how torn the Imperium was going to become. It's like what Stalin said, "The death of one is a tragedy, the death of a million is just a statistic." Totally true here. We know billions were killed because of Horus/Chaos, thats bad, but to see Loken die fighting his own brothers, wow. That got to me. Bringing him back kind of ruined that, it felt like 'oh Horus' treachery wasnt really that bad, the main character survived, the important people always do.' No. 

I'm glad he survived and ended up becoming a GK, but it cheapens his death to me and ruins the first trilogys ending.


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## Lord Lorne Walkier (Jul 19, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> None of the above explicitly suggests psychic ability. If Loken was always intended to be a Grey Knight I imagine the authors would have included implicit examples of a potential or latent psychic talent in the novels. Most of the above can be credited to simply being intuition.


You are right that the suggestions are not explicit. They are in fact, very subtle foreshadowing. Why would you think that they would make a plot twist like "Loken is a latent psyker" implicit? It seems to me that they have been trying to convince us that he died on Istvaan III, a lie. If they went out of their way to fool us on this why would they be strait about mind powers. To me a good writer can get you thinking one thing and then by the end of the story have you feel completely different. Loken having the potential to be a psyker, is clearly a closely held secret.


Machiavellismx said:


> I believe Loken becoming a Grey Knight was an after-thought of the writers, to ressurect a popular hero from the first trilogy of the Horus Heresy.
> 
> I'm glad he survived and ended up becoming a GK, but it cheapens his death to me and ruins the first trilogys ending.


You are not alone with these feelings. I think that the writers wanted you to feel cheated when Loken turns up alive. There is no reason to have been so convincing about his death if they did not want people to think he died. They have been saying for over a year that Loken was always meant to survive though.

Check out his interview with Dan Abnett. At 6:56 he jokes about a James Swallow story called "the Return of Loken". The real title was Legion of One.





At 8:06 of this next one Graham McNeill talks about how much effort they put into not messing up the story plot lines.





To think they dug Loken up because he is well liked is harsh. Most people may have liked him but from what i can tell they also feel he should have died. They wanted his near death to be important. A reason to explain how he could have changed into what will be, a Grey Knight.

If you check out the first trilogy again, with the knowledge that Loken dose not die, you will see that it is mostly from the perspective of survivors. As the first book starts its Loken telling a story. Why have him die in the end and start the book that way? "Dead men tell no tales" Right? This scene like the ones i talked about above take on new significance when Loken's survival is known. Now it is clear that Loken is telling his story (the Trilogy) to some one. My guess is Malcador and maybe the other 7 astartes taken before the Emperor. The words "I was there.." have been used again in at least one other HH book. I think these may be a clue as to who is apart of the group. It is like Malcador asked him, "Why did Horus turn on us? Start from the beginning...". Fulgrim was Tarvitz's tale. FotE was Garro's.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Librarians tend to be super boring because they stop being Astartes and are all about 'the tides of the Great Ocean' or some other psyker lingo. So I hope they don't make him one even though I never was a fan of boyscout Loken.


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