# What would you do to make the Necrons more interesting?



## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

lets get creative here for a minute:

we all know that the Necrons have a heap of potential, but the simple fact is that currently the codex doesn't allow players to make armies that are interesting enough, which is why we don't see that many of them.

now, imagine with me, for a moment if you will, that you are the newest member of the design team and you have been given the enviable job of writing the next Codex: Necrons. what are you going to do to make the list more dynamic, exciting and enticing to players?

(now the caveat, please don't post if all you are going to say is 'the necrons are fine as they are', you are perfectly entitled to that opinion, but it doesn't add anything to the conversation. also, we aren't talking about simple stat tweaks to make units more viable or switching WBB with FNP. those sorts of things are obvious to everyone and i want to hear what you personally can come up with.)


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

It's got to be more vehicles for me, especially a cheap transport option.

And move away from the old phalanx walking slowly towards the enemy thing. Don't get me wrong it is atmospheric and fluffy but as boring as fcuk.

Flayed ones, subterainean deployment maybe?

Oh and bin the monolith, it's looks are just offensive, like a traffic cone from the movie Tron.


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

New Monolith model as said above.

A new piece of wargear for the lord to make his squad have fleet. Or failing that make Pariahs have fleet so they can actualy get where they are going.

Some kind of Super Heavy Destroyer that functions like a tank.

Jumped up Tomb Spyder type thing?

Some kind of "Special Character" Lords and such.

Some fast APC type thing that can carry Necrons into the fight.

Some of these ideas are probably not very fluffy but hey ho.


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## Wiccus (Jun 2, 2008)

Most definitely the Necrons need a couple other troop choices. Something completely opposite from warriors maybe some burly close combat unit. Its just sad that you HAVE to take several squads of warriors.

A mechano spider like walker would be cool like a mobile gun platform for a bunch of heavy weapons.

Maybe something as simple as a squad upgrade or two. Allow a squad of warriors to get a unit leader with a better gun or a power weapon or something. Allow warriors to be able to get like a heavy weapon or two in the squad.

A few new types of vehicles would be interesting maybe a few fast ones.

Lords could be improved. Maybe 3 or so different types of lords that kind of allow a different army than you can normally have like space marines (khan allows bikes to be troops) and such. Like maybe a shooty lord, a combat lord and maybe kind of a sneaky phase shifter lord guy.

I really like the idea of phase shifting so I would like to see more units with that something fluffy I just picture like robo ghosts and it looks sweet.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Honestly, the Necrons really -are- fine as they are. You don't need a hustle to make the army more interesting or worthwhile.

You have a solid Troops choice, which is what the army operates on. The problem is that a Necron Warrior is essentially a mono-pose model. If they made arms perhaps swinging the gauss flayer as an axe (since it has that attachment), or legs that were striding rather than just sort of standing, a lot of the complaints about blandness would go away, I think.

The army doesn't have redundant units-- and in a way, that's good. You have dedicated close combat units in the form of Flayed Ones and Wraiths, both of which are for different close combat duties-- the Flayed Ones as a dedicated shock unit, and the Wraiths for dislodging dug-in heavy weapons teams and the like. Heavy anti-infantry fire comes from the Destroyers, while heavy armor busting comes from the Heavy Destroyers. Scarabs pin the opponent down and quickly intercept opposing fast units, and the Tomb Spyder bolsters other units' abilities to do their jobs. Then, you have a tactically flexible Troops choice that is solid in both close combat due to We'll Be Back and a generally good profile, and excellent at range with a gauss flayer.

I've always been of the opinion that the C'Tan and Monoliths were liabilities to the Necron army due to the Phase Out rule. Both represent large chunks of points which lower the total number of models you need to kill to phase the army out. It's a lot easier to kill 35 Necrons than it is to kill 50; for example-- and you may only need to get 35 in an army with a Monolith, as opposed to 45 or 50 in an army without one. The return in damage to your opponent and the raw utility of the C'Tan and the Monolith both aren't enough to offset that risk. I think the monolith is a more viable option under the current rules, however, because Armor 14 is a tough nut to crack, and not being able to use Melta weapons to their fullest against it makes it even harder to bring down. 

The reason Necrons are so streamlined and don't have a lot of unit choices is because, by their fluff, they've given up everything they are to be put into the metal shell that they now exist as. By adding a bunch of shiny new things, you'd be taking away from the feel of the army as this ancient, slumbering, efficient machine that exists purely to kill. 

The summary sheet has been leaked for the new Codex: Necrons... it's floating around Heresy's rumor section somewhere. There is an addition of a walker (Scorpion) and a new unit (Tomb Guard), and three kinds of Lords-- a standard one, one in service to the Deciever, and one in service to the Nightbringer. The Pylon is in there, too. So there's some more variety, but at the end of the day, it's the same, marching, relentless phalanx of what's essentially sci-fi undead.


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## Lord Lucius (Sep 18, 2008)

scrap codex "necrons" .Instead have codex "C'Tan" so ,perhaps the void dragon awakens as the Omnisia and you could take an army of Skitari lead by a "prophet of the Omnisia" ,aka a techpriest lord with necron troops and such appearing like summond daemons.BUT if you dont likr that you could just have an army of deep striking necrons!!! that would be seriously broken as necrons can do a lot of dammage deep striking "embarked" in 2 monoliths already!
OR have the Outsider and mad humans as an army!


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## Cpt. Loken (Sep 7, 2008)

First i'll give them so more troops and more equipment for warriors, squad leaders for everything, a command squad for lords, special characters, a walker unit, point costs down and well more of everything.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Wraiths - make 45pts give 2 wounds and power weapons 
Flayed Ones - 2 attacks and make troops choice
Tomb Spyder - Don't use up a FOC slot
Pariahs - 30pts - BS3 S4 T5 
Necron warrior -16pts drop strength to 3 and make WS 2 and do this for all no CC related Necron units like destroyers
Heavy Destroyers - 2 wounds or make 60pts or both
Lord - make 80pts or a lower version at this point cost
These would greatly change the layout and use of many necron armies


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

BIG ASS ROBOTS.

that's all they need ! something big and close combaty, GW should check out the coalition armoury from the rifts universe, they are all suitably skeletal and bad ass


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Monolith is fine as it is, it has good rules. Gauss needs an overhaul, it cant destroy vehicles anymore which sucks. I would suggest that it glances on a roll of 6, but only has -1 on the vehicle table rather than -2. toughness boost to 5 for all necrons. we'll be back changes to FNP. all units have the USR Stubborn.all necrons are slow and purposeful with the exception of lords and flayed ones.
They need another troops unit that can do damage in close combat. 
Flayed ones: Rules Infiltrate, Fleet : wargear: rending claws. stats WS: 4 
BS: 0 S: 4 T:5 W:1 I: 4 A: 2 Sv 3+ 15pts
Warriors are pretty good, but they could be more competitve. boost points to 20 per model: allow a pariah to lead the squad for +15 pts. allow 1 necron to be upgraded to have a a gauss cannon for 15pts or a gauss blaster for 10 points. being slow and purposeful allows them to be relentless.
Tier the lords with different abilities for each lord. have special character lords, e.g. the "Voidbringer" "Night-Herald" and "Lord of Deception" each has special abilities that come from their dedication to a certain C'tan. 
A "Harvester" heavy tank.(read hellforged and you'll know what i mean)
Wraiths: boost to WS: 5 2 power weapons. 3 attacks. ignore all difficult dangerous terrain. ignores barricades and walls. + 2D6 armour penetration. 3 per squad increased to 5. 50 points. New models please, in plastic
Obelisk troop transport. living metal AV 12 all over. skimmer & fast
Tomb spyder WS up to 5 wounds down to 1 initiative up to 3
New weapons called a Gauss Scorcher(flamer template) and a 
gauss anihillator :Fires either : [48" strength :7 AP 1 , ordnance1,large blast] or [ 60" Strength 10 AP:1 Heavy 2, gauss] this weapon is an upgrade weapon for a monolith's particle whip. 
C'tan go to apocalypse where they can function like they should
Models needed: 
New tomb spyder: plastic 22.50 euro
box of 5 plastic pariahs for 30 euro
box of 3 destroyers for 30 euro
obelisk transport plastic
upgraded warrior box with pariah parts and immortal parts. 30 euro
box of 10 metal flayed ones 35 euro
box of 5 plastic immortals for 35 euro
box of 5 plastic wraiths for 35 euro
plastic Necron lord customisable kit with wargear including wraith body and warscythe etc. 22.50 euro
Metal special characters


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Maybe models that look like big IG, living flesh over metal endoskeletons? O, and the occasional hot chick lord who's limbs become weapons... and a guy made of morphing metal...
Ya...


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## Rahmiel (Jan 3, 2009)

A transport with medium armor that can carry a mass of cron warriors would be cool (something akin to the large droid carriers in Star Wars Episode 1) as well some kind of robot tank other then the monolith, something to bridge the gap between destroyers and the monolith.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

You asked for it.


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

I say the flawed ones have Rending to show those claws are capable of ripping targets apart
Scarabs to be able to give necron units a 3+cover save when the swarm is in front (after all being described as a black cloud when they attack


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Hmm well I think the current onwards marching phalanx is the most tedious thing to fight against in the game currently. SO I reckon the solution is to bring them more in line with a chaos daemon kind of fighting style. Necron warriors rising out of the ground. 3 Monoliths descending into the midst of an opponents battle lines, disgorging hundreds of emotionless warriors. I think more of a focus on this style of game play would keep them fluffy and interesting. 

I'm no expert on the necron codex though, so I can't really go into minute detail, but I think things like the veil of darkness(?) should be more prevelent but with more limitations to prevent it being OP. More things should be deploying out of the ground like flayed ones, including warriors and immortals, with the alternative of the things coming out of monoliths, or posibly something else. I like monoliths, but I think they have too mixed a role. I would divide it up to encourage a more tctical approach, so there would be the portal carrier vehicles that are very tough, then more shooty vehicles that can't take as much punishment, but are more mobile. Then maybe one for transportation, like that things that was rumoured on BoLS ages ago, the monolith that had tiered levels that things could shoot from. I liked that.

I'd honestly get rid of destroyers. Personal grudge combined with the fact I don't think they fit the whole style. Whether that's due to me being an idiot or not, but I don't like them at all. I'd replace their role with more things like wraiths to emphasize the undead vibe.

And just introduce more damn units. They don't need to be individual or different, but jesus christ, the current codex has so few options that I feel I'm facing the same damn army every battle. Options are important, they don't have to be competative, but they need to be fluffy. Players need options when choosing an army, so they can decide to do it fluffy, or themed, or whatever. My ideas would provide this kind of variation - portal deployment? emerging from the ground? mounted on several transports speeding towards the battlefield? Whatever - it's your choice as the player. 

Yay.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

How about the 40k equivalent of ushtabi form the tomb kings book, a sm dread sized necron that comes in a unit of 1-3

Have it be a monstrous creature with upgrades for ccw that either eihance str or add an extra d6 for armor pen/ignore invulnerable saves (but not necessarily both)
have it start with a guass cannon (the one that destroyers have) and give the option to upgrade

"pariah" type troops option, has the soulless rule, but weak armor save(4+) and lacks the necron rule, as they are hybrids, and lack some of the goodness. have them start with 2 ccw, and upgrade to gauss flayer.

I like a light vehicle option, preferably something reminiscent of the screamong skull catapult or the corpse cart.


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Quite simply its the troops choice for me that needs a little something most.

Maybe another couple of types and most definaltly some options like a special weapon of a squad leader.

Other things?
Make pariahs 'necron' for WBB or cheaper points wise.
Wraiths, up to five in a squad would help as would rending.
Lords, another cheaper variant would be nice.
Get FW to put down the Guard stuff for a change and do something better than that bleeding pylon. ( Honestly it ought to be called RGW, Resin Guard World.)


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Or Resin Imperial Tank World


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## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

I really would like to see another C'tan. I think it would have to be the Outsider since Viod Dragon is the most powerful being in existance. More troops, pariahs cheaper or better. You don't really need a transport, i think GW made then really resistant to attacks so they would't need it. Cheaper monoliths all the way as well, if u get one you have to Phase Out way more quikly than if you don't


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I'm not really bothered about seeing more C'tan, it would be nice but not very important.

I'm more interested in seeing the massive silver Warriors referred to in the fluff, the really killy ones. I like how most Necron units are based on modifications of Immortals or Warriors. 

There should be something demonstrates why the Necrons are the most technologically advances race, they don't really have any of that atm apart from the guns.


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

the cabbage said:


> It's got to be more vehicles for me, especially a cheap transport option.


it seems that 'new vehicles' is probably the most commonly occurring requirement for a new C: N. and, though it hadn't seriously crossed my mind before, the more i think about it the more it seems like a cool idea.



the cabbage said:


> And move away from the old phalanx walking slowly towards the enemy thing. Don't get me wrong it is atmospheric and fluffy but as boring as fcuk.


not sure i'm totally up for that, the inexorable, glacial march forwards is one of the defining factors of the Necrons and really helps set them apart from other armies (who are all a homogeny of easily deployed and easily moved troops). the Necrons should be a steam-roller, moving slowly forward like the zombie horde; easy to avoid for a time, but impossible to stop, and when they finally leave you with nowhere left to run and hide you will certainly be destroyed.

the solution really is in trying to find a way to make that slow march more intense and exciting for both players. though i will admit that the idea of no-vehicles and simply appearing up from the ground is quite a cool system too.



Son of mortarion said:


> I like a light vehicle option, preferably something reminiscent of the screamong skull catapult or the corpse cart.


i actually think that this is probably the best way to go. my first thought was of something akin to a SM Vindicator, that would travel with the Necron march and offer some serious fire support just ahead of the troops, softening them up for the inevitable. but equally a 'corpse cart' that offers buffs to Necrons near it might be quite a cool idea. but then again, isn't that what a Tomb Spyder is supposed to be?



Son of mortarion said:


> How about the 40k equivalent of ushtabi form the tomb kings book, a sm dread sized necron that comes in a unit of 1-3


would this clash some what with the Tomb Spyders? should it be a different type of Tomb Spyder that is more combat proficient?

i like it, but i'm not sure how the best way to deliver it background-wise would be.



Son of mortarion said:


> "pariah" type troops option, has the soulless rule, but weak armor save(4+) and lacks the necron rule, as they are hybrids, and lack some of the goodness. have them start with 2 ccw, and upgrade to gauss flayer.


again, i like it; it would make for an interesting alternative troops choice. however, i'm not sure how far you could push the idea of an army of Necrons who aren't Necrons. i really struggle to get my head around the background for pariahs as it is (a fusion of Necron technology and human evolution? wtf?) and the idea that the Necrons would want to be anything other than Necron really flies in the face of their own background. if Pariahs really are the next stage of Necron technology then i see no reason why a lesser form could not be in the troops choice, but as others have suggested, perhaps make them both Necrons again. (that or simply play down the whole non-Necron thing, by saying 'its not that they aren't Necrons, its just that they are different/modern Necrons).



Calamari said:


> A new piece of wargear for the lord to make his squad have fleet. Or failing that make Pariahs have fleet so they can actualy get where they are going.


you do know that everyone is allowed to 'run' in the shooting phase know? Fleet doesn't make your troops any faster.



Calamari said:


> Jumped up Tomb Spyder type thing?


this has been a concept i've been toying with for a while. i think it would be really cool to have a sort of 'servant leader' Tomb Spyder type unit as an HQ choice for Necrons. a little bit like the Nerubian Crypt Lord from Warcraft III.

my other suggestions for HQs would be a specific Destroyer Lord with his own special rules that, amongst other things, allowed full Destroyer units to be taken as troops, and to change the regular Lord to being something like a Autarch, so that he could be part Flayed One, part Pariah and/or part Immortal. though some inspiration should be taken from the new 'task oriented' direction GW are shift Necron Lords in.



Wiccus said:


> Most definitely the Necrons need a couple other troop choices. Something completely opposite from warriors maybe some burly close combat unit. Its just sad that you HAVE to take several squads of warriors.


my instinct would be to make Scarabs into troops choices. they are distinctly different from Necron Warriors, but not so straight forwards as 'bigger, more fighty ones!'

also, with the addition of a Tomb Spyder Lord it would be perfectly possible to take a completely non-Necron army, offering more variation for both players and opponents.



Wiccus said:


> Maybe something as simple as a squad upgrade or two. Allow a squad of warriors to get a unit leader with a better gun or a power weapon or something. Allow warriors to be able to get like a heavy weapon or two in the squad.


squad upgrades would be cool, though, again, i'd rather not see something we've seen in every other army. obviously, increased Ld is not a priority for Necrons, but what about a unit leader that provides Stubborn, as a display of his leadership? or are we simply looking for things that are better in combat?



The Son of Horus said:


> Honestly, the Necrons really -are- fine as they are. You don't need a hustle to make the army more interesting or worthwhile.


its certainly true that Necrons are a perfectly adequate army, but interesting they are not. the simple fact is that people don't play Necrons (most people don't even like playing against them). if people don't play them its because they are not interested in or inspired by them. that means they _are _boring. this is amply born out by the discussion at hand.

also, do you think that additional units and choices would be to the detriment of the Necrons? would you object if the new codex came out and it wasn't simply an update and standardisation of the previous one?



The Son of Horus said:


> The summary sheet has been leaked for the new Codex: Necrons...


that is highly debatable. i don't personally believe that anything has been leaked, as the page is quite clearly a fan dex at best and a hoax at worst. the fact that the changes made are all the basic things that player routinely point out, the odd copy write information at the bottom (particularly for something that isn't going to be published for another couple of years) and the artwork from the previous codex would seriously imply that this has nothing to do with GW.



Lord Lucius said:


> scrap codex "necrons" .Instead have codex "C'Tan" so ,perhaps the void dragon awakens as the Omnisia and you could take an army of Skitari lead by a "prophet of the Omnisia"


i'm not sure that that would go down so well as it would obviously have radical implications about the background (the Imperium would be through into chaos if Terra's nearest neighbour suddenly transformed into one of its most dire enemies). a more popular choice for the AdMech to enter the game would simply be a standard AdMech force, either a FW garrison or a Exploritor team. also, i don't think that their is significant reason to believe that if the Machine God was revealed to be a façade for the Void Dragon that the AdMech would continue to side with him, or that the Void Dragon would do anything other than destroy them anyway.

but it would be good to see something done with the C'tan. though i'm personally undecided as to whether they should be removed as playable units or simply made over into something a bit more appropriate and understandable.



Cpt. Loken said:


> First i'll give them so more troops and more equipment for warriors, squad leaders for everything, a command squad for lords, special characters, a walker unit, point costs down and well more of everything.


those are some pretty broad concepts. care to get a bit more specific? what kinds of additional troops? what kinds of upgrades? why squad leaders when all units are Ld 10 anyway? what would the command squad consist of? what could special characters bring to the army that regular units didn't? what would the walker units be? giant Necrons? giant Tomb Spyders? something else?



darklove said:


> There should be something demonstrates why the Necrons are the most technologically advances race, they don't really have any of that atm apart from the guns.


their ability to 'teleport' using the Monolith, which inexplicably doesn't rely on the warp is quite significant. but it would be more significant if it wasn't inexplicable.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

To clarify, I was thinking along the lines of the "Giant terminator" in the t4 previews when I was talking about a 4Ok ustabi equivalant, the tomb spyder fills an Apothecary/techpriest type role, very different than a shock assault role like I was envisioning.


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

Ok, this is just a half baked idea, I dont really have much info about the chrons, but what about eldar pariahs?


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Maybe give them something like a dreadnought type thing. A huge necron armed with loads of scary weapons.

And maybe make the basic necrons relentless, so they are that slow moving firing line that just doesn't stop.

And turn the gauss rifle into someting that is rending. ( DEFINITELY scary )
( or maybe make this someting like a squad upgrade )

Flayed ones definite should get either power weapons or rending.

Another interesting idea maybe would be for them to be able to raise 'pylons'.

A pylon would be a vehicle unit that deepstrikes, like a droppod.
Once it has arrived, it has 1 or 2 of those small guns that are on the monolith and AV12 all round.
It also can function as a portal for a necron unit, teleporting it to itself the turn after it arrives. This will give the necrons some nasty mobility tricks up their sleeve.


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

Son of mortarion said:


> "pariah" type troops option, has the soulless rule, but weak armor save(4+) and lacks the necron rule, as they are hybrids, and lack some of the goodness. have them start with 2 ccw, and upgrade to gauss flayer.QUOTE]
> 
> as AdmiralDick said, to prevent a necron army from not being necrons could it be something like you can only take one of these squads for every 1 or 2 warrior squads?
> 
> ...


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## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

(musing) Maybe something like, oh i don't know, maybe similar to the squidies from the matrix, yeah, like 2d6 cc attacks at like s6 or 7. that's be pretty cool, so it'd be like a suped-up wraith. It'd have to keep with the skeletal theme of course, and it'd _maybe_ get some guns yeah.


So what do you think? I recon it covers the about-dreadnaught-sized cc dedicatd unit, give it 6 toughness and 2 or three wounds and I think it fits quite well.


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## Aktar09 (Apr 4, 2009)

i know this cant happen because of the earlier fluff, but id like customisable ctan - a basic profile, and then you can give them lots of upgrades


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## GiftofChaos1234 (Jan 27, 2009)

They need Schwarzenegger


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

revenant13 said:


> also for a more apocalypse thing, do necrons have any flyers? i think that would be fairly interesting.


they have some quite cool small craft in BFG, and i always imagined that they would have had some pretty awesome airsupport in comparison to other races (no need to worry about a fragile pilot), but were generally not so hot an interstella travel. i don't even know whether there are rules for Necrons in Epic.



Asmodeun said:


> (musing) Maybe something like, oh i don't know, maybe similar to the squidies from the matrix,


its fair to say that the Necrons share similarities with machine armies form movies (like the Terminators and the machines form the Matrix), but i don't think its worth actively persuing the similarities. that would make them more bland and insipid, and less Necron-y.

however, there is potential in the concept of a 'super' wraith.



Aktar09 said:


> i know this cant happen because of the earlier fluff, but id like customisable ctan - a basic profile, and then you can give them lots of upgrades


seeing as the C'tan have pretty complex characters and specialist equipment, i'd be interested to hear what kind of up-grades you would offer to customisable C'tan?


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## Wolfgang_Molder (Mar 3, 2008)

ok, i see alot about giving them fast transports, special characters etc, THIS ISN;T WHAT NECRONS ARE, think borg from star trek or failing that, zombies from any zombie movie, give them free deep strike (popping up from the ground and such) give a super ressurection style monolith that lets everything in 12" get a free wake up call i don;t care, but DON'T make it another clone army and ruin their feel and play style because at the end of the day if we start making them more like other armies, we might well all just play smurfs


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## Wolfgang_Molder (Mar 3, 2008)

also (i know two in a row i suck majorly but get over it) customizable c'tan!? spare me! we don;t want another autarch disaster and put another pathetic chaos lord clone


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

@wolfgang_molder: ok, so we've heard what you don't want; and for the most part i can agree with you. but what _*do *_you want?

forgetting for a moment all the things that would be a bad idea, what would be a _*good *_idea?

(also, there is an edit button if you wish to extend your post)


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## Wolfgang_Molder (Mar 3, 2008)

heh, i think a good idea would be to make what is already there more interesting, rather than change the army for what they are, make what it is more interesting, new models, some variation, possibly another option for a vehicle but not an apc, they have the monolith for that, but pissibly a lightly armoured cheap sort of kamakaze vehicle that you send in to do something and basically count it out (like scout sentinals) but i think other than that necrons don;t really need much (if anything)

btw, thanks Dick, i get a little off track sometimes and forget what i am talking about or the point i intended to make


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

Wolfgang_Molder said:


> heh, i think a good idea would be to make what is already there more interesting [...] make what it is more interesting, new models, some variation


well, that leads to a few questions (some easier to answer than others): what do you think the Necrons are? what, to you, are their defining feature? and what features would you like to elaborate on with new units?

following on from that: how would you make currently existing units and/or archetypes more interesting and offer them more variation, whilst within the frame works of your own themes?



Wolfgang_Molder said:


> pissibly a lightly armoured cheap sort of kamakaze vehicle that you send in to do something and basically count it out (like scout sentinals) but i think other than that necrons don;t really need much (if anything)


i like the idea of a Kamikaze style vehicle, that you simply don't expect to have at the end of the game, though i'm not sure how well that would fit in with the 'indestructible' nature of the Necrons. also, would it be something that you sent ahead of you warriors? or something you expected to support them as they march forward?


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## Korrogoth (May 2, 2009)

How about some necrons warriors devoted to the gods: mayby a necron warrior with a smaller gauss gun with a bigger sythe at the end, covered in smoke and black veils to make it devoted to the Nightbringer


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## terminatormonkey (May 6, 2009)

no offense to necro players. i always thought necrons were made to get people who wanted somthing simple to play, an easy paint, and somthing that would scare children with out blood. also fairly cheap to play necros from what ive heard and the only esential troops are warriors, a lord, and a monolith.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

I'd give them all Chris Tuckers voice

More specifically, Chris Tuckers voice when he plays the DJ in 5th Element


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## primeministersinsiter (May 31, 2009)

Make everything plastic. 
Change the tomb spyder models to look like the squid things from the Matrix. 
Give the wraiths the same jump move as warp spiders.
A rule somewhat like the SM cluster mines, instead of an explosion, walking into the booby trapped terrain would reveal a squad of flayed ones.
A Necron who's a bigger than an immortal.
My 2 cents.


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## Epic Fail (Jun 23, 2008)

I'd like to see a necron monstrous creature that really looks monstrous. A big scary looking walking think tank would be great - not cliche like the chaos walking daemon tank but a crisp lined tank of annihilation. Being able to customise it between anti-tank, anti-personnel and a transport would be great. (I see it holding the troops in it's belly and deploying them by dropping them out.

I think more necrons should be able to teleport too, a fast attack choice that covers the field by teleporting would be great - kinda like warp spiders I know but the imagery is different to me, and that's what counts first when I build an army.


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## freaklord (Sep 13, 2007)

hairy chests


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

here is the "new" summary. it is a hoax. i traced it to its source (a german fourum) and it was an april fools gag.
http://www.tabletopwelt.de/files/necrons_refsheet.jpg
going to try to refind the original site.
found it:
http://www.tabletopwelt.de/forum/showthread.php?t=114822
the esential part of the post is this bit (translated by myself)
UPDATE: 
I do hereby on the April Fool's joke - the Ref-Sheet is obviously a fake, the Wayfarer and I have cobbled together. Nix for ungut!
so now that i have laid the rumers to rest, on to the cool stuff.
necrons look fine to me, but maybe some cool kind of deep stricking ability to represent them rising out of the ground would be good.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

my 2cents:
keep the units as they are in general jsut add and adjust some bits here and there.
Why?
Cause the concept of the NEcrons is that slow advancing steamroller you cannot escape from after all

What is bad now in the 5th?
1. they are basicly beaten in any CC which should not be
why? Cause almost every other race can "hide" a PF/PK in their units
2.obviously the Gausrule has suffered 
3. some point adjustments would de

about 1.
either allow a "leader"upgrade for PF etc of make the NECS in general stronger - e.g. make the Gaussrifle armour ignoring in CC?

about 2.
Make all Gauss weapons Rending (instant wound on a roll of 6 for wounds) and adjust for the vehicle damage from -2 to -1 for glancing hits which are still inflecte on a roll of 6 on the penetration roll no matter how weak the Gaussweapon is

about 3.
make warriors cheaper and adjust the profile or make them better... 18points is too expensive for what they can do right now (boltermarine cost 12pts, right?)
flayed ones cheaper or give em energy weapons with better AP (buyable upgrade?)
Wraith: cheaper or energy weapons with good AP (buyable upgrade?)

I see no problem with the NEcrons being boring honestly... they have both:
Strong static units and fast powerful once as well as the strongest Tank in the 40k Universium

They are just not competative right now... or lets say... not as strong as other armies
When I think about the possibilities you have at 1000 points for orks or SM not to talk about 1500 and what I can st up with Necrons it gets hard to win simply for the fact that the models are not worth the points right now.

there are enough necron units and within their edition I bet they were strong enough to counter everything that was there... but right now they are not!
18 pts for a MEQ or a not competative Flayed one ...
41 for a wraith
the whole army imho just needs some rules and points adjustments and all would be ok


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## Tau22 (Apr 27, 2009)

Giant, flying, gauss-shooting jellyfish.
Or just some kinds Extra heavy Destroyer lord, with more than one gauss flayer.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Some kind of AV 12 spider thing that's a fast vehicle with a good ap 2 flamer (gauss discharge...disintegrates anything directly in front of it.)


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Earlier in this thread, I said that Necrons were fine as they are. And I still maintain that position. However, if I had to add a couple units, I think I'd look into something like these.

Tomb Scorpion-- a monstrous creature, rather than an armoured walker, which could go toe to toe with a wraithlord. If you look at the fluff, the Necrons and Eldar have been at each others' throats since before we crawled out of the oceans-- it makes sense that there'd be a similar weight-class construct the Necrons use to fight the Eldar wraith constructs. Make it low to the ground, with powerful close combat ability, and play up the role of a combat specialist that defends the flanks of warrior phalanxes from targets they can't handle. 

Obelisk- Immobile vehicle, maybe AV12. Maybe have a single monolith-esque weapon that's able to switch between multiple low-strength shots for shooting up infantry squads, and a single, focused blast for harder targets. Make it S8 for the focused attack so the Heavy Destroyers are still the definative defense against AV14 targets. 

Assault Destroyers-- give Destroyers the option to trade in their gauss cannons for close combat weapons. Then, change wraiths so they're able to do something like the Eldar Skyleap, and hop around surgically killing weak targets, while combat-oriented destroyers use their toughness to their advantage to win protracted combats with dedicated close combat units.


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## ooglatjama (May 20, 2009)

Instead of the vehicles as transports, make them all capable of deepstrike and give them something like icons.
The icons would be on vehicles that deepstrike first, then all the other necrons can come in on the same turn (maybe like a fraction per turn) without scatter.


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

Korrogoth said:


> How about some necrons warriors devoted to the gods


that's a pretty good idea. though its not a direction that i would personally want to take the background in, there is certainly plenty of scope for such units. and it would provide some decent inspiration for new elite/retinue options.



terminatormonkey said:


> no offense to necro players. i always thought necrons were made to get people who wanted somthing simple to play


i doubt anyone would take much offense to that kind of assumption, however, its not exaclty born out by the facts. Necrons are currently very out of date. when they were designed they were as complex as all the other races (in fact they were somewhat more complex with tribal mechanics like WBB and themed weapons).

also, lets not fall into the trap of thinking that variety automatically implies complexity. if all the units that are currently in the C: Necrons remained the same and a couple of new units were thrown into the mix, nothing would prevent players from using the simple army lists that they had been before.



primeministersinsiter said:


> Make everything plastic.


i think that's something most players will agree on for pretty much every race.

that being said, the Necrons already have a high percentage of their core units in plastic (Warriors, Scarabs, Destroyers and Monoliths). making the Lord the obvious ommission, but as he's really not customisable enough to warrant a plastic kit its not surprising one has never appeared.



primeministersinsiter said:


> Change the tomb spyder models to look like the squid things from the Matrix.


personally i rather like the look of the Scarabs and Tomb Spyders as they are. we all like the Matrix and Terminator movies, and its cool to see 40k riffing off elements of those worlds, but to copy them wholesale would simply deny the quality of the 40k universe and degrade the movie franchises.

it would be cooler to build on the background we already have and desing new and different types of machine based on the same rough 'tomb spyder' design.



Epic Fail said:


> I'd like to see a necron monstrous creature that really looks monstrous. [...] Being able to customise it between anti-tank, anti-personnel and a transport would be great. (I see it holding the troops in it's belly and deploying them by dropping them out.


this seems to be number one on the players request list. though i'm still not sure how it would fit into the background.

also, i think that if you want to guarantee a unit will be good at nothing then try and make it good at everything. there really is no need to make a new vehicle unit that can be anti-personel, anti-tank and transport all at the same time. it would be better to think up three different vehicles that could excel in those feilds individually.

also, wouldn't your vehicle rather tread on the toes of the monolith?



freaklord said:


> hairy chests


hmm. hairy chests, moving in formation and covered in silver. sounds like disco to me...



The Son of Horus said:


> Earlier in this thread, I said that Necrons were fine as they are. And I still maintain that position. However, if I had to add a couple units, I think I'd look into something like these.


smooth as butter. no one noticed a thing! :grin:



The Son of Horus said:


> Tomb Scorpion-- a monstrous creature, rather than an armoured walker,


i like it.

how would you marry it up with the current background of Tomb Spyders and Scarabs though, which are built as servitor type units?

there doesn't seem to be any indication currently that the Necrons used their technology to build automata for combat. i'm not saying they couldn't, just that they don't appear to have done.



The Son of Horus said:


> Obelisk- Immobile vehicle, maybe AV12.


again i like it. though being stationary will cause problems if its sole purpose is to shoot the enemy.

i'd like to see more stationary units that have funky in game effects like a cross between Necron Pylons and Circle Oroboros Standing Stones from PP's Hordes.



The Son of Horus said:


> Assault Destroyers-- give Destroyers the option to trade in their gauss cannons for close combat weapons. Then, change wraiths so they're able to do something like the Eldar Skyleap, and hop around surgically killing weak targets, while combat-oriented destroyers use their toughness to their advantage to win protracted combats with dedicated close combat units.


i think that sounds like one of the best ideas yet. it certainly adds a lot to the identity of both units and to the army as a whole.


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## JB Mallus (Apr 28, 2009)

Psykers with curses would be cool.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

JB Mallus said:


> Psykers with curses would be cool.


Never ever ever going to happen - Necrons are the total opposite of anything to do with the Warp. There is no way that they could ever have phykers, but they might all count as 'nulls'... Like Pariahs.


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## JB Mallus (Apr 28, 2009)

darklove said:


> Never ever ever going to happen - Necrons are the total opposite of anything to do with the Warp. There is no way that they could ever have phykers, but they might all count as 'nulls'... Like Pariahs.


I know nothing about the Necrons. Does it show? :grin:


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

oh yeah!!! :grin:

no matter what will happen imho the NEcs are as they are and they are fine... they just are outbalanced as they were "forgotten" over two editions (like others ... I know)
Whatever will happen I hope they do not kill the IBB and I also hope they will not come up with some smart ass idea that just does not fit the theme.
I started necrons for that evil, soulless, "slowly but for sure getting your throat" style


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## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

Not _exactly_ like squidies, just similar, with the whole 'scary as hell deadly tentacles coming in from everywhere' theme, and a similar wolume of good cc attacks, _before_ the enemy hits you, a nice change for necrons.
It would be quite similar to the cc destroyers mentioned, only the counter-measures would be more similar to those neccessary for a furioso.


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## Lupercal's Chosen (May 8, 2008)

Destroy them and smelt the bodiesinto gork and mork thatl do it


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I had a thought about this over the weekend and here is what I came up with:

In addition to the standard updates that people have been saying I would like to see a super-elite option that would operate as an either/or system; i.e. you use the standard army list OR you choose this system - no mixing and matching.

This would take the form of a *single *huge Walker model, about the size of a Warhound Titan, that would generate all other units and/or act as a super-heavy tank. This means there would not be a fixed army list other than the Walker, taking up all 3 Heavy Support slots on the FOC, and the Necron player deciding what they want to build as the needs of the battle dictate (but not exceeding a legal FOC at any time). 
Each turn the Necron army would get XXXpts to spend on units that would then be ‘stored’ ready to emerge from the Walker as if disembarking from a transport. Points that are not spent in 1 turn can be held over to the following turn, this means that cheap units could be built quickly while more expensive ones might take a few turns to be afforded.

This Walker would also replace Phase Out with a new game mechanic. Any units created by the Walker ‘phase’ back to the walker when they are destroyed and can be ‘reassembled’ at half their original point cost (to represent that they are only being repaired and not created from scratch). This means that a unit is never actually destroyed (in keeping with the Necron fluff), but would still count as a kill point each time it ‘phases’ back to the Walker. This would create some tough choices for the Necron player: do they rebuild fallen units or keep the points for units they originally intended to build…

As a super-heavy the Walker would be very tough and killy, but not able to hold objectives etc., and it would be worth 3 kill points (1 for each FOC slot it occupies). Therefore the Walker can build anything that is not a Heavy Support choice. Upgradable weapon load-out to give players some options if they don’t want to build many units but just have a really powerful killer Walker. Some of these upgrades might further limit unit construction options or increase/decrease the number points available for unit building. Suggest a base cost of 500pts+. Suggested pts limit to spend on construction of new units and the repair of ‘phased’ units each turn would be 250pts.

Thoughts?


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

darklove said:


> Never ever ever going to happen - Necrons are the total opposite of anything to do with the Warp. There is no way that they could ever have phykers, but they might all count as 'nulls'... Like Pariahs.


i wouldn't be so sure. if there's one thing we know for certain, its that nothing is certain.

the Necrons are certainly not shy of a logical disconnect. if they really are that loathing of alien races, why did they take the time to investigate the C'tan and find a way of talking to them, rather than blasting them from the sky? and what's the deal with Pariahs, why bother wasting your time with convoluted nonsense like 'a mix of human evolution and necron technology'? if the C'tan are so powerful, why aren't they more impressive on the table top?

there are a number of ways psychic powers could be introduced into the army, irrespective of whether it undermines their basic themes. maybe they could have slave, tortured psykers (like penitents). or have developed some exotic technology that allows them to access psychic powers to a limited extent, without being psykers themselves. or they could simply sack of the contrived nonsense about C'tan not being psychic and give them psychic powers.

i agree whole heartedly that it would be better if they had no psychic powers and a certain level of immunity from them, but i also know GW have a way of doing the opposite of what you want to see.



Sebi said:


> no matter what will happen imho the NEcs are as they are and they are fine... they just are outbalanced as they were "forgotten" over two editions (like others ... I know)


i'm a little confused as to how they can be both 'fine as they are' _and _'outbalanced'.

i think most of us can see why they are unbalanced, but could you please tell me in what way they are fine? what do you believe to be the themes and mechanics that should be immutable?



Sebi said:


> Whatever will happen I hope they do not kill the IBB and I also hope they will not come up with some smart ass idea that just does not fit the theme.


IBB is cool, but in comparison to FNP it's quite complex. i too, hope they don't sack it off completely, but i get the feeling that it is unlikely to stay.



darklove said:


> I had a thought about this over the weekend and here is what I came up with:
> 
> [...]
> 
> Thoughts?


i see what you're getting at, but what you've actually described is a standard army that is housed within a massive transport model, which isn't all that exciting and is more than a little problematic. what happens if it gets destroyed in the first turn? what's to stop a player only taking one of those vehicles and never generating an army? why would they want to generate an army if the vehicle was as powerful as you suggest anyway?

its an intersting concept, but i think it would require a lot more work. if the machine could only produce units from a set repetoire that might be a start.


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## Crimson_Chin (Feb 20, 2009)

Pariahs - please, make them necrons. Just that would inspire people to take them. And either one more base attack in CC or a 4+invulnerable save. Make them more killy or more durable, they deserve it.

I like the idea of teleporting small pylons (or something similar) into place and using them as gates, that you then bring other units through. It would end up being something like a souped up drop pod. I say don't put any guns in it, make it deploy a unit from reserves when it comes down, and from then on have it count as a table edge for the cron player in terms of bringing on reserves.

Squad leaders are, IMO, completely against the nature of necrons. The one exception I could see would be adding a pariah to the squad. He wouldn't be a 'leader' persay, as much as he would be a 'herder'. It would certainly make the squad a little tougher to kill in CC.

And while having a big scorpion might be cool, hasn't that been done? I'm pretty sure that the DE have the rights to that one (Talos anyone? )


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## Sangus Bane (Jun 17, 2009)

They need more and larger models, it now depends largerly on those flying blokes and the infantry, if they could add some tanks, just small ones, like the Tau piranha it would have more sorts of units which would be a valid reason to start an necron army.


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## JB Mallus (Apr 28, 2009)

Crimson_Chin said:


> And while having a big scorpion might be cool, hasn't that been done? I'm pretty sure that the DE have the rights to that one (Talos anyone? )


There are plenty of other insects and arachnids out there.
Giant/large mechanical centipede?

JB


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## Sangus Bane (Jun 17, 2009)

JB Mallus said:


> There are plenty of other insects and arachnids out there.
> Giant/large mechanical centipede?
> 
> JB


which can cut through the enemy's tanks with its massive jaws? or can it lay seige on a bastion by crawling over it and laying mines where ever it walks... sounds like a plan... someone should do that! maybe it can even transport things...:victory:


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

The entire army is fine as it is. As mentioned before they have incredibly durable troop choices and if they wanted to could just march a bunch of warriors at you and probably win. The only problem with Necrons is that they are horribly weak in HTH, which they should be! You can't have better shooting than a space marine and expect to be as good in HTH as an ork! The only thing this codex needs to fix every problem they have is to make everything *Fearless!* This would get rid of the issue of being snowballed in HTH easily (since they would lose a couple more models instead of the whole squad) and would prevent them from not being able to carry out their march to your lines by being pinned or falling back, and the kicker is, this would be completely and utterly fluffy! Necrons don't get scared, they just keep going till they die or the enemy is dead, they don't care either way.


So ya, maybe a couple of different units, but nothing game shattering or different for them is needed (New warrior models wouldn't hurt) but leave them as they are (except fearless) and you have a solid tough as nails army to deal with.


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## Baalirock (Oct 6, 2008)

As much as a giant metal centipede would be undoubtedly cool, If the necrons got a walker, I think it should look more like a machine and less like an earth insect. Something very large and sleek looking would do very nicely. Failing that, maybe something that looks like a walking Piledriver or something.

As for the psyker issue, since the Necrons have technology so far and away from the rest of the races of the galaxy, who's to say that they couldn't use some of that tech to produce in-game effects that could be used in place of actual powers. Sort of like how Skaven grey seers load themselves with warpstone to replace magic. Maybe we could see Necron engineers (for lack of a better term, atm). They could use some kind of gravity-based tech to launch beams of destruction around the table, and would be subject to a roll similar to "peril of the warp" every time they tried to use the power. That could be cool!


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

@admiraldick: I thought of the Massive walker as more of a mobile entry-point for the combat units - but that you could customise it to be more like a super-heavy tank at the expense of fewer build points, or max out the build options for fewer destructive powers.
3 Structure points (1 for each FOC slot it take up) and living metal AV14 (it should be *at least* as tough as a Monolith) should do the trick to prevent turn 1 destruction - and if they manage to kill it in 1 turn they deserve to win! :victory:


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

admiraldick said:


> [..]
> 
> 
> i'm a little confused as to how they can be both 'fine as they are' _and _'outbalanced'.


simple: All units are fine ... even in their profile at some point but need small tweaks without much changes and some point adjustments.
Nothing big

I will test them further cause my experience is - honestly speaking - not good enough


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

Crimson_Chin said:


> I like the idea of teleporting small pylons (or something similar) into place and using them as gates, that you then bring other units through.


that could be quite cool. kind of like a drop pod crossed with a webway portal. i've not been a fan of the 'all teleporting' army, because its too similar to Daemons. but if you could purchase 'spires' as FA choices and Deepstrike them on to the table top in the early game, and then allow all Necron units that enter from reserves to Deepstrike scattering from that 'spire', that could work quite well.

obviously it would need a lot of play-testing, but its an idea.



Crimson_Chin said:


> Squad leaders are, IMO, completely against the nature of necrons. The one exception I could see would be adding a pariah to the squad.


Necrons clearly have a command structure (whether it's efficient or not), so it isn't against the theme. but the real issue is why would we be adding unit leaders?

lets be honest, we don't really want 'leaders' who add a Ld buff or the ability to better follow commands. what we want is a heavy weapons guy who has access to powerful CC weapons. and that wouldn't be beyond the realms of imagination, but the idea would work out better if we were honest about its function in-game.



JB Mallus said:


> Giant/large mechanical centipede?


i really think that ideas got legs...

oh dear. that was an all time low.



Sangus Bane said:


> which can cut through the enemy's tanks with its massive jaws? or can it lay seige on a bastion by crawling over it and laying mines where ever it walks... sounds like a plan... someone should do that! maybe it can even transport things...:victory:


seriously though, i like the idea, particularly the mine layer.

though i'm not sure that it needs to be a transport vehicle as well.



Taggerung said:


> So ya, maybe a couple of different units, but nothing game shattering or different for them is needed


what new units would you give them?



Baalirock said:


> As for the psyker issue, since the Necrons have technology so far and away from the rest of the races of the galaxy, who's to say that they couldn't use some of that tech to produce in-game effects that could be used in place of actual powers. Sort of like how Skaven grey seers load themselves with warpstone to replace magic.


lets not forget Dwarven non-magic magic.


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## heartoffury (Jun 17, 2009)

I admit, I've not read every post in this thread. So I apologize in advance for any repeats of what's been said.

My main complaint for necrons is their lack of flexibility in small games. My gaming friends and I like playing small 500-600 point pickup games and necrons have exactly _one_ 500 point list. The only variation I'm allowed is ~forty points for a res orb, three scarab swarms or some other upgrade for my lord. Other than that I'm left with a lord and two squads of warriors. I would love for the warriors to have a few options, maybe a heavy weapon or two, or perhaps a squad champion that counts as two+ models when calculating phase out and helps with WBB in some way.

My problem with allowing warriors to have heavy weapons is that it makes immortals pretty useless, since they're just warriors with one more toughness and a better gun.

And what's up with wraiths being forty-ONE points? Honestly, WHY? :ireful2: Never have I planned a list with wraiths and came up with 1500 points, it's ALWAYS 1501 or 1502, depending on how many wraiths I took. I'm aware that most opponents consider 1500 and 1501 the same thing, I just think the extra point for wraiths is unnecessary.

Wow, that was a tad long-winded.


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