# Dark Angel Rumours



## Deadshane (Dec 29, 2006)

We've seen it before on other forums, I'm sure it'll spark up some discussion here.


HQ
Grandmaster – Azarael
- Wargear – Same as previous but with some amendments. 


Belial – Master of the Deathwing 


Sammael – Master of the Ravenwing 
- Wargear Jetbike (armed with TL-Storm Bolters & under slung Plasma Cannon) and other stuff 
- May switch to his Land Speeder in which case he now counts as a vehicle and wargear Shield of night now provides AV14 front and sides. 
- If Sammael is included in a army one attack squadron may be upgraded to a Ravenwing command squad (Ravenwing standard bearer and Apothecary).


Company Master (Master of the 3rd, 4th and 5th companies)
- May take a five man command squad but doesn’t have to join them. 



Ezekiel – Grandmaster of the Librarians 
- comes with both DA Psyker powers plus Mindworm. 


Dark Angels Librarian 
- Pretty much the same as codex Space Marines except has two unique powers – Hellfire and Force Barrier (may not change them). 


Dark Angels Chaplain 
- Pretty much the same as codex Space Marines, may be upgraded to Interrogator Chaplains 
- May take Terminator armour, bikes or Jump Packs. 


Dark Angels Command squads (max 5 models) are a HQ choice but do not take up a HQ slot you can take one for IC but they do not automatically form a retinue and may separate. 
- Fearless
- May only take a Company Champion Upgrade if a Company Master is part of the army

Elites 


Deathwing Terminator squad 
- Squad Size is five models (no more/no less). 
- All members of the Deathwing are fearless 
- Only one heavy weapon per squad (One assault cannon, one Cyclone launcher or one heavy flamer). 
- Squad can include a mixture of standard and close combat terminators.
- Uses special rule ‘Deathwing Assault’ up to 50% of terminator squads may deepstrike in the first turn without having to roll for deepstrike. 
- Terminators are cheaper than the old Dark Angel codex but more expensive than Codex Space Marine Terminators 


Company Veterans squad 
- Base of five models and up to an additional five (although a max. squad of ten is needed to use the rule ‘combat squads’). 
- Can take a mixture of weaponry (combi-weapons, storm bolters, special and heavy weapons). 


Techmarines 
- Counts as elites but does not use an Elite slot in the FoC. 
- One Techmarine may be taken for each non transport vehicle included in an army. 


Dark Angels Scout Squad 
- Base is five marines and veteran sgt. 
- May include a further five scouts. 
- Armed with Krak, Frag and bolt pistol and one of the following as standard – Bolter, Shotgun or Close Combat weapon.
- Shotgun is now S4. 
- Rest of options similar to scout squads. 



Troops


Tactical squad 
- Uses ‘combat squads’ rule 
- May take a special weapon if five marines and a special and heavy weapon if ten marines (heavy weapon includes plasma cannon) 


Ravenwing Attack squadron (If Master of the Ravenwing taken).


Deathwing Terminator Squad (If Master of the Deathwing taken).



Fast Attack 


Assault squad 
- Uses ‘combat squads’ rule
- Assault squads can remove their jump packs and take a Rhino or Drop pod instead (points cost per demi squad/squad remain the same). 

Ravenwing Attack Squadron
- Base of three bikes (may add another three to a maximum of six.
- All Ravenwing bikes are fearless. 
- All Ravenwing bikes (including attack bikes) come with teleport homers and Scout USR as standard 
- Two bikes may take a special weapon (flamer, melta or plasma at a points cost). 
- Attack bike can be added as standard 
- If squadron consists of maximum bikes (six) then a land speeder Tornado may be added. 
- Squadron is deployed at the same time but may be separated into four scoring units (2x3 bikes, 1 x attack bike and 1 x land speeder Tornado). 


Ravenwing Support Squadron
- Base is one land speeder. 
- May include up to four more land speeders, one may be a Tornado and one more a Typhoon. 


Heavy Support 


Devastators 
- May use ‘combat’ squads rule allowing squad to be split into 2x5 marines; this allows you to split out heavy weapons into two units. 


Vehicle information 



Vehicles come with searchlights and smoke launchers as standard equipment. 


Drop pods are more expensive all other vehicles remain at the same price or are cheaper.


Whirlwinds have an option for incendiary Castellan missiles that remove cover saves.


Dreadnoughts may take a Plasma cannon or Twin-linked Autocannon. 


General Information 


All Dark Angels wearing power armoured come with krak, frag and bolt pistols as standard 


All Dark Angels squads are led by veteran sergeants. 


Standards of Fortitude, Devastation and Retribution now come under a single classification of ‘sacred standard’ and require an interrogator-chaplain in the army to use. 


No veteran skills available to Dark Angels. 


Codex follows the same format as the recently released Eldar codex. 


‘Combat squads’ used for many selections, base is five models and then may be given another five models for a maximum of 10. When deployed unit may be split into two separate scoring units. 


Jink Save for the Ravenwing is gone. 


Stubborn and Intractable are gone. 


Rules for Cypher are not included in the codex 


No Mortis Dreadnought in the codex. 


Cheaper by the cost of a single basic space marine, rhinos come with smoke and searchlight.


Extra armour cost is 3 times that of C:SM cost. 


Miniature Information 


Several new HQ models including two new captains (already seen) along with remakes of named characters. 


Dark Angels upgrade sprue (similar to the Black Templars one but of better quality), icons for vehicle upgrades (no separate door sets). Including Deathwing parts and robed bodies. 


New Ravenwing sprue (including parts for the MotRW landspeeder) 


New Land Speeder sprue including parts for Tornado and Typhoon. 


2 army deals will be available - 1 Ravenwing and 1 normal Dark Angels


New model for Cypher. 


Cypher is getting a new model. The new model of Cypher is confirmed, due for a late release. The model is in a pose crossed between the Emperor's champion and the LOTR Witch King. I hope you get what I mean. He is looking slightly downwards, and is armed with a very nice sword and some pistol I didn't recognise. (source Destris) 


Plastic Devastators and potentially a plastic Drop pod maybe released alongside the codex.


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## Ryan El'Jonson (Dec 15, 2006)

Good to have the list on here, cheers for that matey. What do people think of all of this then? Sure Deathwing and Ravenwing have a few new nice touches but what about the rank and file boys? 

TBH it looks like they are worse than codex marines. Better basic weapons is a nice touch but hardly going to make a real difference... 
This close to launch I was hoping to see a few rules to replace jink save and intractable. I hope they do something


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## Jeepfreek (Jan 3, 2007)

Did I miss something? where is Asmodai?


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Asmodai is gone. (good his wargear combo sucked, he didn't even have a pistol even though it was on the model, and why have a power sword, where was his crozius, man he was dumb)

I'm not pleased about Azrael, why does he still have to keep that blinking combi plasma, "oh goody now I've shot I can't charge, oops" idiot

Liking the sound of Belial, wonder if he gets a nice model?.

Master of the Ravenwing sounds good and looks BRILLIANT, but what idot would choose his speeder over the jetbike?

I hope they don't change Ezekiel too much his model was great, but knowing GW they will ruin him

other stuff good some pointless but meh most of the stuff in codexes these days are pointless lol


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

A lot of these rumors look more like general space marine overhaul (like cheaper rhinos, more expensive drop pods)

I;d expect to see a lot of this stuff not in the DA codex but in the 'space marines redux' codex


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## Deadshane (Dec 29, 2006)

Galahad said:


> I;d expect to see a lot of this stuff not in the DA codex but in the 'space marines redux' codex


I dunno why people expect a revision for the basic marine codex. It's current enough that it isnt going to get an update for a LONG time.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I only mention it because it's on practically every future releases list I've seen posted.

I'm not saying we need one, but all the ruors say we're getting one anyhow.


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## Venerable Dred (Dec 27, 2006)

Stella Cadente said:


> ... I'm not pleased about Azrael, why does he still have to keep that blinking combi plasma, "oh goody now I've shot I can't charge, oops" idiot


Except that he also has a Bolt Pistol (just like every other DA not in Terminator Armour).
So no need to fire the _Lion's Wrath_ if you intend to have him charge into HtH.



> Master of the Ravenwing sounds good and looks BRILLIANT, but what idot would choose his speeder over the jetbike?


Well, it is a speeder/skimmer with AV14 on all but the rear sides, and it has TL-Heavy Bolters and TL-Assault Cannons both firing with BS5. So that is 7 shots that are all very likely to hit what they are shooting at.
(MotRW on his Jetbike can be taken out with massed small arms fire, not so when he is in his Speeder)

Personally, I think that the MotRW on his Land Speeder will still be a viable option.


And I second Deadshane's comments regarding any sort of revision to Codex: Space Marines. If/when it gets done, it won't be for some time (I would not expect to see anything in '07, and the '08 schedule is still mostly undecided).


Venreable Dred


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

It's still too early to tell for a lot of this stuff. I seriously doubt GW will mess with the Rhino cost. If they do, then it'll be a flat decrease-- they won't try to make it look slightly cheaper but make you cover the lost points when you buy extra armor. 

I also kind of doubt shotguns are going up to S4. No reason to have bolters on the scouts if the shotguns are S4, really. The compromise is supposed to be that a shotgun isn't as strong but puts out as many shots at close range while allowing you to charge as a follow-up.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

BEHOLD!

Jetbike Master


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

Someone ransacked a BFG battleship prow! Other than that, it's a cool idea. A take from way back when marines had jetbikes and other cool things we won't speak of. I think it's a cool model, but a little too busy with iconography. Why the hell is he reading that huge book while flying a jetbike? I know, I know, but still... I'm definitely using that prow to make a BFG dreadnought flagship.

Khaine


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## Deadshane (Dec 29, 2006)

wow, thanx for that link, I guess I'm doing ravenwing, that model is awesome.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

No probs.

Looks more like a meltagun than a plasma cannon under the thing though...of course, it;s pretty hard to tell at that angle.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

You'll see it better from another angle. It's just like a Plasma Cannon with the to strip cut off and bolted to the bike.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

You're probably right. Wish I could find another pic though.

Sill, liiks sweet. Before I sat down and really committed to what army to play, it was a serious tossup between BA and DA (I had the old Angels of Death codex and fell in love with both)

Considering how long it looks like it's gonna be til we get the new BA codex, I'm starting to think I backed the wrong horse ;-)


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## Venerable Dred (Dec 27, 2006)

The Son of Horus said:


> It's still too early to tell for a lot of this stuff. I seriously doubt GW will mess with the Rhino cost. If they do, then it'll be a flat decrease-- they won't try to make it look slightly cheaper but make you_ cover the lost points when you buy extra armor_.


Really?!?

[_checks notes_]

Because that is the exact cost reduction for the DA Rhinos. :wink: 




> I also kind of doubt shotguns are going up to S4. No reason to have bolters on the scouts if the shotguns are S4, really. The compromise is supposed to be that a shotgun isn't as strong but puts out as many shots at close range while allowing you to charge as a follow-up.


Actually it is a couple of things - shotguns have no AP (so everyone gets a save), and they only have a maximum 12" range.

Anyhow, it should not be too long before all is known. 
(as it appears that some advance copies of the codex have begun to show up).


Venerable Dred


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

This month;s WD has a mall pic of the DA vehicle upgrade frame, a better pic of the jetbike master (Yeah, that is a plasma cannon) and some good pics of some ravenwing bikes and a speeder on the inside of the back cover (oh, and a poster too, looks like the cover art for the new dex)

The feather poles for the bikes are MUCH cooler now. Instead of eing candy canes with feathers glued on they;re actually sort of sculpted looking, angular with an eagle head. Kinda-sorta reminds me of the eagle buttresses fromCoD terrain. It's not the same but when you see it you;ll see what I mean.

They also have feathered farings for the bikes. Reminds me of the chaplain faring.

There's also little robed sword angel hood orniments

Oh, and the vehicle sprue comes with either one assault cannon or a pair (it;s hard to tell if it;s two hlves or two whole guns) styled much like the new terminator ACs. The pic in back shows a speeder upgraded with one of those.It looks sweet. Longer barrels, an angular faring, and a spotlight on it.

Expect a huge pictorial next month showcasing all the goodies


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Tracer rounds render any spotlight redundant in petty much any way. I mean, when is one not going to be shooting?


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Well, the lighr would be nice to, you know, help you see where you're shooting and if you've actually hit anything important. Tracers just tell you where the bullets are going, they don't tell you what's on the other end of that dotted line.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

That's what Tyranids are for. You know if it doesn't radio swear words at you, it's a bug.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I dunno if this has already been posted but if it has not then YAAY, if it has then Meh lol










Enjoy


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

On a totally unrelated note, I like your new signature. Rikku is the shizzle. 

The Dark Angels frame has some interesting stuff on it-- I'm about 99% sure that the assault cannon is two halves instead of a full gun, just from looking at it. I won't complain if I'm wrong, though. 

It'd be nice if they'd make the above picture a Ravenwing battleforce. It'd make getting bikers reasonable (money-wise, at least) instead of the fifteen bucks (US) a pop.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Once it;s available I plan on buyng a couple DA frames. A lot of the stuff is usable anywhere (plastic parts to make tornados and Whirlwinds!) and some of it can be converted to blood angels (We have a wing fetish too) a little GS over the sword to make a blood drop, a little filing to make the feahers pointy instead of square...


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Almost all of that stuff is usable on any Space Marine army.


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## Knight of ne (Dec 31, 2006)

there shall be a ravenwing battleforce and a DA battleforce, if anyone wants to know the contnts just ask.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Well here are both battleforces and there boxes and also decided to include some other pics as well lol, enjoy










Quite a nice few things I reckon, good add-ons to the BIG box set army deal

(top left, DA battleforce, bottom right RW battleforce)

btw: thanks about the Signature comments lol, yes Rikku is indeed the..umm whatever that word was lol


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

cheers for those pics guys, would be good to see a few biker forces out there, i've always thought they would be quite powerful myself, and interesting to play


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

It's an American word, yo. 



Anywhoo, I'm in love with the Ravenwing box. Currently, bikers are 15 bucks (US) a pop, and six of them are alone worth the box's price tag. Throw in the Attack Bike at another 30 bucks, and the Speeder at 30, and you're getting 150 bucks' worth of stuff for 90 dollars. Very hot. I'll have to load up on 'em.

The regular Battleforce isn't bad either. Enough guys in there for a 10-strong Devastator Squad, plus the Rhino, the scouts, and the command squad bits (what's with including a command squad in all these different SM battleforce boxes? You only need one, or two if you want to use some of the bits elsewhere.) 

I love the power mace. Time to convert a Chaplain, me thinks. I'd also expect to see that used on Dark Apostles for Word Bearers armies.


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

I wish there was a lesser Dark Angel special character besides Namaan. Maybe master belial or the killer gold-faced chaplain on the old codex and the Piscina IV stuff from 2nd.

The new models look cool, but GW is removing the realistic quality from their minis. Everything is chunky and flat, with barely any sweeping curves, mainly cloaks and the like. Seems like most of them have football pads on.

Khaine


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

If it wasn;t for the fact SM bike are an awful waste of points, I;d really consider the ravenwing box because it looks so freakin cool.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

that is a Plasma Cannon I am 100000% sure of it, I have this pic from a different angle










and this other one


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

If that isn't a plasma cannon, then I'm a Tau sympathizer. That's such a scary prospect... it looks like a twin-linked storm bolter on there, too... four barrels on the model for boltguns, plus the plasma cannon. At that point, the followup charge seems like a moot point.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

yeah, as I said, there was a better pic in the WD that clearly showed it s a plasma cannon


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## The Drop Zone (Jan 25, 2007)

Talked to my rep at gw today... he led me to believe its possible the MOTR on a JET BIKE might be a LIMITED RELEASE.. dont know if its true but then it would lend to them making a new speeder version.. or using the existing one with upgrades

i know im getting one of the new box sets and then who knows

but i love the master on his jet bike...

and yes the sm codex is being redone after the chaos marines get their codex buiilds in the next year they will release the new jetbikes for all space marine chapters.. among other things you may see only one heavy per terminator squad period.. which is lame then i wont be using terms anymore just assault terms


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## Skcuzzlebumm (Dec 21, 2006)

The Drop Zone said:


> Talked to my rep at gw today... he led me to believe its possible the MOTR on a JET BIKE might be a LIMITED RELEASE.. dont know if its true but then it would lend to them making a new speeder version.. or using the existing one with upgrades
> 
> i know im getting one of the new box sets and then who knows
> 
> ...


nah its not limited release but will eventually end up mail order only - like some of the BT stuff.

and yes the SM dex is been re-done, but a LOT longer away than that. And the new "cult" CSM chapters are not coming out all at once next year. Trust me on this.

Also SM's aint getting jetbikes, cause the MOTRW has the LAST surviving imperial jetbike.

LAST.

Sorry to put water all over your fire dude but just setting things straight.


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## The Drop Zone (Jan 25, 2007)

well for starters my rep wouldnt just tell me that for no reason at all about the le release of the motr

its going to mail order only like some of the bt stuff? .. exscuse me.. i can order any of the bt stuff right now that i need and can buy it direct for my store.. not sure where you get that one from.. but anyways

and i didnt claim the csm were all coming out next year i stated the sm were going to have a new codex after the csm get their upgrades...

as far as sm getting jet bikes unless you work for gw games design you dont have any more proof then what we have all read on the various boards...and after asking some soiurces i have since i ahve a store i remain somewhat hopefull they will add them in the new dex

thats all


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

No they won't. The entire point of the MoR having a jetbike is that it is the last one _ever_. There will _not_ be any codex entry for them because there is only one. It would be akin to GW suddenly making female Space Marines in terms of complete disregard for the integrity of their own intellectual property. It will not happen, because Games Workshop cannot afford to alienate their longtime gamers, who form the most useful and important aspect of the hobby.

You said right there that Chaos will get their builds next year. That seems to me an awful lot like you're saying they'll get a new codex next year, since you can't upgrade anything without a new codex.

Most people actually have to mail order things because, funnily enough, they don't actually own game stores, and there are very few stores that carry the entire range.


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## The Drop Zone (Jan 25, 2007)

""""You said right there that Chaos will get their builds next year. That seems to me an awful lot like you're saying they'll get a new codex next year, since you can't upgrade anything without a new codex. """

the word from gw is that each chaos "chapter" is getting a redo.. potentially 2 chapters per codex this is being done because they are phasing out the eye of terror book

""""Most people actually have to mail order things because, funnily enough, they don't actually own game stores, and there are very few stores that carry the entire range."""""

thats not what the previous poster said he said that the motr would go to mail order only and i said that wasnt the case i used the bt as was his initail example of they are not mail order only.... i am very aware that not every local storte can carry everything .. i know i dont have every model in my store...

i posted what i was told directly from my sales rep... now this could be one of two things he was blowing smoke at me which i doubt due to the type of business i do with him or 2 hes blatently lying to me, again which i highly doubt

where did you find the information that the motr is the last jetbike ever? was that in the latest wd? if so that explains it i havent read the wd ...i hardly ever read wd...


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> thats not what the previous poster said he said that the motr would go to mail order only and i said that wasnt the case i used the bt as was his initail example of they are not mail order only.... i am very aware that not every local storte can carry everything .. i know i dont have every model in my store...


Without meaning to sound like an asshole or anything and no offence meant in any way, but the fact that you own a store of some kind tells me that you are old enough to have learned punctuation. Please use it so the rest of us can read your posts correctly on the first try. 

Back to the discussion.

I could see the jetbike going to mail order only if GW felt it wasn't selling enough to make up the cost of stocking it on the shelves. Our local GW store doesn't carry Exorcists anymore for that very reason. Doesn't mean it will happen in this case but there is a precedent.


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## Skcuzzlebumm (Dec 21, 2006)

in the UK - i notice your are from across the pond so obviously cannnot comment on thier stock system though i presumed it to be similar to the uk - the BT range was splash release and after 2 months they stopped boxing up the different plastic squad sets and they where removed from the store order forms. Currently a store can only order in metal vets, grimaldus, Emps chump and helbract. These often wander on and off the order form aswell as they wait till demand build before doing another run.

Dark angels will go the same way, i know ppl in marketing here in the UK. Have even discussed the BT realese with them (when i was staff) and even recently was chatting to them about whats on the horizon - they are more reliable than a rep sitting in the US. Sorry staff and reps as a whole often have very poor intel. I'm fortunate in that i know a fair few ppl in very much the right places (will not name names as it may get them in trouble obviously) but lets say that i have been into the studio on more than one occasion in the past 2 years and have regular dialouge with the ppl who really do matter.

I know this could easily been blown away as "ooh i'm best buds with jervis and he tells me everything" crap talk that is often seen around the net. But those who know me will know what i am saying is true.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

My dad used to run a game store. This was back when GW used to lgo through wholesalers rather than requiring direct to retailer. Our wholeale rep never lied to us, but that isn;t the same thing as saying he always knew what the hell he was talking about.

Just because someone works with a given company doesn't mean the';re in the loop or getting the right info. We used to get the detailed release schedule for Palladium Books (makers of Rifts) but 80% of it was delayed, cancelled or renamed before release. Doesn;t mean our guy was feedign us a line. It just meant that he didn;t have good intel.


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## SonsofOrion (Jan 26, 2007)

Skcuzzlebumm said:


> These often wander on and off the order form aswell as they wait till demand build before doing another run.


It seems to me that mostly they flip a coin to see what goes on the order form. This done to ensure fairness to all the other armies.

this is a joke. any resemblance to an actual theory or opinion living or dead is purely co-incidental


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## The Drop Zone (Jan 25, 2007)

well again what you say goes on over in the uk i cant argue nor would i try but let me tell you that over here we have a few more options with the bt's than you do

just like you guys were able to buy the bonesinger and we were not i bought 30 of them and had them shipped anyways but they were not released here only on a giveaway

so far in the 8 months i have been dealing with him hes been pretty close to perfect so take that for what its worth


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

As for the jetbike being the last, that's been in the background for the Dark Angels Master of the Ravenwing since close to the end of second edition. It's become a very solid piece of information, and I've seen it in a codex, an old WD (which I'll never remeber so don't ask) and the very latest one, if I recall correctly.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Back on subject, I found some high-res, double-sided pics of the upgrade sprues. There definately are TWO assault cannons on the vehicle sprue

(filched from Ravenheard on B&C)


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

The two assault cannons will be for the Master of the Ravenwing Speeder. I Imagine using a simple conversion you should be able to use them for termies save buying two boxes for the twin weapons.


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## Skcuzzlebumm (Dec 21, 2006)

though you do get a spare one on the infanrty sprue aswell. Think we'll find a lot of DA players putting up spare termi cannons soon.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

MOTRW already has hs own model, why would they supply parts to convert a special character?

Plus, there's a termie assault cannon on the other sprue ;-) Plus with only one AC per 5 man squad, there's no longer a need for extra terie AC above and beyond the one included in the box.

Besides, closeups of the ravenwing box cover shows a speeder with an entirely new looking assautl cannon, lookign exactly like the one in the sprue


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## Skcuzzlebumm (Dec 21, 2006)

thats right there is a MoRW speeder model but IIRC it is no longer current stock and will slowly disapear from exsistance. The new spure allows you to make the MoRW out of plastic and/or easy tornado's.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I can;t imagine them retiring the MOTRW model while they;re revamping the chapter. "Hwer's a brilliant new model of the MOTRW...but if you want the speeder version, you;ll have to settle for a crappy kitbash. We strill have the original, but...meh...we needed to use u space on the sprue."

Hesides, look 'inwards' from the ACs, you see two ammo bins, underneath them two weapon mounts, and beneath them two spotlight pods.

If you look at the new Ravenwing tornado model you;ll see it has an identical long-barreled AC with a spotlight pod mounted to the side of it.

Trying to find a bigger pic, but look at the speeder. Long barreled AC, visible seperation between the support bar and the barrels, and a spotlight pod mounted on the side
http://i5.pbase.com/o6/77/256377/1/73164867.DyAUwAIA.Ravenwing.jpg


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## Skcuzzlebumm (Dec 21, 2006)

yep but also in the new Dex (sorry no pics guys :lol: ) i shows a MotRW model made up of plastic parts from the upgrade sprue.

I know a good while ago a few of the design studio said they where trying to slowly steer away from hybrid kits (mix of metal and plastic) as they are less cost effective to produce.

The current one is a hybrid kit so can see the sense in making it possbile to easily do one from the sprue.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

As for the actual upgrade sprue, damn, that's as good as the Templar one, but with some more and some less useful parts. Two each of that and the Templar sprue and you've got enough customisabiity for a small army.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Well then I would contend that the 'home made MOTRW' option is a helpful kitbashs uggestion rather than the primary intent of those ACs ont he sprue. As I said, teo guns, teo mounts, two spotlights. I'm sure they're eprobably set up so you could twin-mount them if hyou wanted, or with a little cutting, but I think they're primarily there to make a pair of tornados, with a MOTRW conversion as an option.

In any event, it;s pretty goddaned awesome. Unlike the templar upgrade sprues, this is stuff that can be very useful to other chapters. 

Most SM chapters have some sort of wings theme. BA have flying blood spatter, ultrasmurfs have golden chickens, there's too many chapters with the word 'raven' or 'eagle' in their names to count. Swprds are another popular icon as well. Cut down the destinctive DA flares near the tip to make it a little more generic and you;re good to go.

Meanwhile there's penty of non 'branded' goodness, from robes to weapons (Power mace?! Hell yeah! hello plastic chappy)

The extra speeder parts alone are insanely helpful.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them drop the three ssperate hybrid speeder kids and come out with just one kit that includes a new quartersprue packed with weapon options (take the section of the DA sprue, drop one of the assault canons and ammo boxes, add a heavy flamer and fuel tank, drop the DA icons and add the targeter eyepiece and the issile pod doors, good to go)

I'm a BA player and as soon as the upgrtade sprues are available I'm ordering 'em


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

Drool. I love those sprues. I'm glad I only have one unit of deathwing built. I'm going to concentrate on my two land raiders and build just the legs, torso, and head of my other terminator boxes. I can't wait till this sprue comes out.

BTW, when is the codex due to be released?


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

No idea, but probably a couple weeks after the boxed sets hit the shelves


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## SonsofOrion (Jan 26, 2007)

hurrah for the boxsets.... i do need extra sprue stuff. i'm getting tired of hand tooling it all. besides i'm running out of band-aids and superglue from carving down other pieces.


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

> I'm a BA player and as soon as the upgrtade sprues are available I'm ordering 'em


Damne straight!  
I think It's a fine excuse for to get some Termies finally done for the Angels Wing.
Regarding the command based sprue those 2 pictures seem be two mirrored pictures of the same sprue are you sure you get TWO ass-cannons per command/upgrade sprue? :?


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

They're not mirrored, they're fromt/back. Check out some of the other details pieces and you'll see. Both asscans are 1 solid piece. that's why they look the same in both images


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## blkdymnd (Jan 1, 2007)

So is it a definate that Deathwing only get one AC per 5 man squad? I've been in and out of this thread trying to keep up but hadn't seen it confirmed from anyone thats says they've seen the book? Just curious


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

> So is it a definate that Deathwing only get one AC per 5 man squad? I've been in and out of this thread trying to keep up but hadn't seen it confirmed from anyone thats says they've seen the book? Just curious


Afraid so!  
It's basically one per squad then you have the option customise the remainder with fists and storm bolters, Lightning claws or thunder hammers / shields.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

Does anyone have the terminator squad magic combo?


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

pathwinder14 said:


> Does anyone have the terminator squad magic combo?


hmm whats the magic combo, its certainly not mine lol 2xHammers and shields, 2xClaws, and a SGT with Claw and Shield, people would call me mad for not havin an assault cannon lol.

so tell us, what is the magic combo?


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

I'm afraid to say It but I think with the loss of the twin weapon option there Isn't really a magic number/unit. Previously they worked well as a moving twin ass-cannon platform, now that they've lost that and due to the fact that asault termies Just don't cut It (unless LR mounted) they really have to become all-rounders so maybe something along the lines of this?:

5 x Terminators:
1 x Assault Cannon / Power Fist
1 x Thunder Hammer / Storm Shield
2 x Lightning Claws
1 x Sgt Power Weapon / Storm bolter

To be honest Increasing their std cost and losing the extra cylcone or ass-cannon, on a personal level they sort of become obsolete In the competetive sense.
Unless I've missed something out entirely? :?


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

I currently have this:

Sgt with power weapon and Storm Bolter
Terminator with Assault cannon and Chain Fist
Terminator with Storm Bolter and Chain Fist
2 terminators with Storm Bolters and Power Fists

I dedicate another Terminator unit to close combat with all lightning claws and 1 assault cannon.


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## TheEmperor'sChampion (Jan 24, 2007)

the lightning claws one should get a fist or hammer. otherwise a mc can come in a tear them a new one. i personally laugh at the ass platform tactic, dropping 240 pts for 2 decent guns is kinda idiotic.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Finally, someone else who actually realises this.

As for the Deathwing itself, you might want to wait until you've, you know, actually even seen the new rules before you decide said rules invalidate them.


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## Glen Roeder's love child (Jan 25, 2007)

I agree with uberschveinen 

It's probably best to wait and see the codex in full before anyone starts righting off individual units.

As with any codex you need to look at it as a whole and look at the combinations not just individual units.

I would certainly suggest giving it a very close read a couple of times because even if unit X is not as good as in the vanilla codex on first reading, think about the combos and tactics they will undoubtably be a few hidden gems in the list if you look hard enough.

After all if everything was the same as it is in CSM then it would be CSM. We also know that GW have stopped just throwing in lots of free benefits for the deviant lists, which has got to be a good thing.


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## Skcuzzlebumm (Dec 21, 2006)

Though its good to point out that myself and Longbeard at least, have had access to the Codex now since the start of Feb.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

Skcuzzlebumm said:


> Though its good to point out that myself and Longbeard at least, have had access to the Codex now since the start of Feb.


So are terminators getting telepot homers as standard equipment?


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## The Drop Zone (Jan 25, 2007)

no they do not, the bikes have them bult in

and yes it is a bit of a puzzle why they are more exspensive have less firepower and get nothing for it

frankly i played with them one time yesterday ... difficult game

not a solid army creation scheme by gw


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

But they are fearless and half of the units rounding up can deep-strike on the first turn.
So they have some things that normal termies don't.

The problem is that you want to have both bikes and termies to get the most out of them both, but that will put a big strain on your pointlimit.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

On the up side, that many high cost units means it should be cheap to set up a high point army, and easy to paint ;-)


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

Yup, it sure will.

On thing I am afraid of is that DA will be too limited in viable options, that is it will only play good in one set-up or otherwise you would be better suited to play standard marines.

My reason for this is that you pay a lot to have Deathwing and Ravenwing as an option for your army, and the only other thing you have going is a more verse tail standard unit with both bolter and bolt pistol.

On the other hand you have to pay a high price for the heavy weapon in a standard squad.

The flexibility of DÀ just took a hit if you ask me, but then again you didn’t ask me now did you.


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## Deadshane (Dec 29, 2006)

Something that I think people are overlooking is how awesome the Vet squads are. They are WAY cheaper than an equivalent SM vet squad when you factor in the Terminator honours that you dont have to buy to get the special weapons.

....I'll be looking more into this today.


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## blessed knight (Feb 27, 2007)

azrael, 10 vets (2 fists) and a crusader. is looking quite good.

I seen a few posts now claiming DW are 'more expensive' Why?

instead of tank hunter / furious charge, DW get fearless, the option to mix termi types in the squad and can deathwing assault for the same price as the vanilla squad.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

> I seen a few posts now claiming DW are 'more expensive' Why?


Aside from the fact they are more expensive pts wise 215 for a unit, do the math.

The loss of Tank Hunter and a 2nd Assault Cannon clinches it for the not worth it IMO.

Fearless- good, but so's Ld 10 with ATSKNF. 
In some cases ATSKNF is better than Fearless (see No Retreat rule).

Option to mix weapons. I suppose. If you really want even less firepower in exchange for lightning claws. Most people aren't in the business of charging Termies, and they can only walk- so how are those lightning claws to get into assault?

Deathwing Assault- Has it's uses. Deep Striking Turn 1 may not always be a smart move.


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## blessed knight (Feb 27, 2007)

Jeridian said:


> > I seen a few posts now claiming DW are 'more expensive' Why?
> 
> 
> Aside from the fact they are more expensive pts wise 215 for a unit, do the math.


OK, 215 divided by 5 = 43

vanilla termi with skill = 43

so how do you get them being more expensive?

Is it some new maths trick? :lol:


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

Well the Space Marines have something that is sadly lacking from the Dark Angels- free choice.

Skills are optional, you can choose not to take them.

A SM Termie squad is 240 for 5 with 2 Ass Cannon. Not a bad unit all round.

A DW Termie squad is 245 for 5 with 1 Ass Cannon. 

Fearless = Ld 9 ATSKNF, really not that impressive.

Lightning claws, etc not that impressive- just makes the unit even more ineffective at shooting and the enemy just stays outside 12" until the Termies are dead or weakened.

Deathwing Assault- Has it's uses.


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

"Well the Space Marines have something that is sadly lacking from the Dark Angels- free choice."

This is my feelings too. I don't think you can compare Fearless with the other two.
Both make the unit better at either charging or shooting, fearless make them not much better at any thing.

Fearless < Ld 9 + ATSKNF

I would say that ATSKNF is much better, most of the time you will have the option to join a character with high LD or have a commander in the army that boost all LD.

And if the unit have to take LD-tests it will probably be better of to break and have one round of shooting before re-engaging. Only up-side is that they will be immune to pinning.


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