# Raven Guard vs Imperial Fists



## raven_jim (Sep 27, 2013)

HELP!

Me and a friend have been laying down some serious banter for a upcoming game and he knows my raven guard list like the back of his hand and has tailored his list to face it...

I am hitting him with a lot of assault units and fliers so he has decided to set up a aegis line with quad gun and sit back and pick me off as I approach... I have no chance

I was thinking of ditching my rhinos and razor backs for drop pods, shortening the gaps and forcing him to deal with the threats rushing out the drop pods. Also by ditching the rhinos his tank hunter rule will be useless as he plays imperial fists

Has anyone got any opinions/tactics on facing a shooty army and is the drop option a good one?


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

You aren't screwed. If you were you wouldn't ask for help.

It's been a little bit since I played Raven Guard, but my most common opponent is an Imperial Fist player. What else does he have and what list will you run and we might be able to give you more constructive tactics.


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## raven_jim (Sep 27, 2013)

Deus Mortis said:


> You aren't screwed. If you were you wouldn't ask for help.
> 
> It's been a little bit since I played Raven Guard, but my most common opponent is an Imperial Fist player. What else does he have and what list will you run and we might be able to give you more constructive tactics.


We are having a small 750 point match, I have a feeling he will be using 10 scout snipers, a command squad with chaplain, razorback, ages defence line, tac squad and a devastator squad, possibly some anti air tanks or whirlwind not sure what else he has up his sleeve.

My list is a chaplain with an assault squad, 2 tac squads, rhino, razor and storm talon...

I have many options when it comes to assault and heavy weapons for the tac squads, I have a libby and captain as alternate HQ options as well as a dreadnought and drop pod

Cheers for getting back to me


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

i love raven guard and think there one of the best space marine chapters with a really nice set of chapter tactics, at this points lvl i always run a librarian over a chaplain as he can make a big difference in game this size and really hand you an advantage with his powers, in games this size with raven guard i like a single drop pod that coming in on turn one, complimented with your initial scout move of 12"( tactical squad in a rhino that is) your up and in there face turn 1 putting a good weight of fire down on them add in you get stealth first turn can really help, one thing to watch out for tho using the drop pod is if his defense line has a quad gun/ lascannon as it can shoot at your squad once it comes out the pod, but as long as ya rollings not to bad your come out nearly unscathed , then use this squad to secure/ take out the anti air before your talon arrives. so turn one your have 2 tactical squads up and around the enemy lines putting some good fire down and giving your opponent a lot to think about turn one, then hoping you had a good landing for ya drop pod he should help in providing a blocker for line of sight and your assault marines can move up hopefully unscathed and full strength to launch at assault whilst ya libby puts out powers to either kill for help you survive depending what powers you get.


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## raven_jim (Sep 27, 2013)

With the libby i free up a whole load of points to boost up my other squads with more damaging weapons. My theory with the Chaplain was his furious charge and boost he gives being attached to my assault marines... But I agree a libby would work better and by equipping a tac squad in a drop pod with a few flamers and heavy bolters, it will quickly eat up his ranks.
One question I have about a level 1 libby is the number of powers they get to take, is it still 2 but you only get to use the 1? this has always been a rule I am not so sure with...


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

on page 66 of the small rule book, its says unless otherwise stated, a psyker knows a number of psychic powers equal to its mastery level.

so lvl 1 takes 1 power and lvl 2 takes 2 . i always run my libby at lvl 2 but lvl one for the points it is is good


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

raven_jim said:


> We are having a small 750 point match, I have a feeling he will be using 10 scout snipers, a command squad with chaplain, razorback, ages defence line, tac squad and a devastator squad, possibly some anti air tanks or whirlwind not sure what else he has up his sleeve.
> 
> My list is a chaplain with an assault squad, 2 tac squads, rhino, razor and storm talon...
> 
> ...


So, if all he brings for troops is a tactical squad and scouts, you have an advantage. Send your assault marines to eat the scouts (which they should manage) and the he either has to send his one troops choice left out to claim objective to keep them back. Then you could just hold 2 objective with your more durable tactical squads and win.

He'll be sinking a lot of points into a command squad. If you destroy their transport, you can just run circles around them and shoot them rather than having to assault them and he's just wasted a lot of points (for this scale game).

I don't know too much about the Storm Talon, but my thought would be that having a Dreadnought with something like an assault cannon and DCCW with a heavy flamer in a drop pod. It drops in near/behind the Aegis. Between the assault cannon and heavy flamer on rear armour should strip about 2 hull points off. Then I would put lascannons or missile launchers on your devastators, take the other one off. Then you can get rid of one tank a turn, for as long as the dread lasts. Plus, if his scouts are in the aegis, you can incinerate them with AP4, ignore cover.

If he's bringing a Whirlwind, good. They're garbage and basically wasted points. 

As for the gun on the Aegis hurting your drop pod, don't worry. A Quad gun only has a ~20% chance of killing it and a Lascannon only has ~11% chance. Plus, if it does blow the drop pod up, fair enough it's a kill point but the only damage to your dread is a S4 hit on rear armour, which I'm pretty sure can't hurt it (I forget if dreads are rear armour 11 or 10). 

So I recap:
1) If he's bringing scouts, either burn them or eat them with an assault squad. 5/6 games are objective based and if you can remove his scoring units you'll stand a much better chance.
2) Drop the Storm Talon for a Dread in a Pod. Even if the Pod blows up, not much will come of it.
3) Destroy his transports. They're free kill points and it gives you the advantages of agility.
4) Remember what the objective are. If your Imperial Fist player is the same as mine, he'll try and draw you into a kind of siege battle and focus on kill points. If the game is objectives based, focus on the objective and kill your opponents scoring units.

Hopefully some or all of that is useful. Let is know how it goes (Battle Report?)


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

Deus Mortis said:


> As for the gun on the Aegis hurting your drop pod, don't worry. A Quad gun only has a ~20% chance of killing it and a Lascannon only has ~11% chance. Plus, if it does blow the drop pod up, fair enough it's a kill point but the only damage to your dread is a S4 hit on rear armour, which I'm pretty sure can't hurt it (I forget if dreads are rear armour 11 or 10).
> 
> a


i cant remember where i read it(thought it could be FAQ), but a quad gun/ lascannon emplacement with interceptor can shoot at the unit that comes out the drop pod as they are considered to have arrived from reserve this turn(which is the requirement for a interceptor shot) and considering the shots are made at the end of the movement phase the models are on the table the opponent dosent have to shoot the pod with his gun, so a dread with Armour 12/12/10 depending on its facing could have to take 4 strength 7 shots which could really hurt it.


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## raven_jim (Sep 27, 2013)

This is what I thought, as an interceptor who ever was in the drop pod would be fair game for the quad gun. Although I'm thinking a well placed drop pod could provide some cover?


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

Ah, I hadn't seen that FAQ. Well, provided that the Dread is front facing the gun, it's got the same armour value as a drop pod (they're both AV12, except for the back if the dread) so it's still only a ~20% chance it'll be blown up by the quad gun. Depends if you're willing to risk it.


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

raven_jim said:


> This is what I thought, as an interceptor who ever was in the drop pod would be fair game for the quad gun. Although I'm thinking a well placed drop pod could provide some cover?


oww yeah for sure , normally i use my drop pod and the dread/squad to take out a gun placment before my flyers come in so sooner the better and only problem with positioning a pod between the gunplacment and dread is you may block los to the dread from the gun but your also block your own los to the gun, that why i like running squads in pods for this gun placment clearance as a quad gun is 4 shots but ya marines will get ya armour save and worst case you lose 4 marines but still have 6 left and with the lascannon you lose 1 marine, but with a dread all it takes is one good shot and you lose your whole unit that just deepstrikes in to clr the placment.


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## raven_jim (Sep 27, 2013)

kickboxerdog said:


> oww yeah for sure , normally i use my drop pod and the dread/squad to take out a gun placment before my flyers come in so sooner the better and only problem with positioning a pod between the gunplacment and dread is you may block los to the dread from the gun but your also block your own los to the gun, that why i like running squads in pods for this gun placment clearance as a quad gun is 4 shots but ya marines will get ya armour save and worst case you lose 4 marines but still have 6 left and with the lascannon you lose 1 marine, but with a dread all it takes is one good shot and you lose your whole unit that just deepstrikes in to clr the placment.


Mathhammer, I like the way you think


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

Deus Mortis said:


> Ah, I hadn't seen that FAQ.


 i cant find it now lol , it may have been removed as the wording of interceptor is clear and says it can shoot at a unit that has arrived from reserves this turn, and a unit coming out a pod has arrived from reserves.


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## raven_jim (Sep 27, 2013)

Deus Mortis said:


> Hopefully some or all of that is useful. Let is know how it goes (Battle Report?)


I will attempt to write a battle report for this as it will be an epic encounter, there has been so much build up and banter 

So D day draws ever closer and I was flicking through my codex last night and I read something about the Auspex... 

Going back to my drop pod theory, I was going to deploy a unit near his aegis line defence and pick them all off. I'm expecting him to hide all his devastators and scouts behind a wall and I think the aegis gives a 2/3+ cover save, will the Auspex reduce his cover save or am i misreading the rules? I have 10 points free which i used equipping my sgt's with melta bombs but reducing his cover saves seems a more viable option?


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

raven_jim said:


> I will attempt to write a battle report for this as it will be an epic encounter, there has been so much build up and banter
> 
> So D day draws ever closer and I was flicking through my codex last night and I read something about the Auspex...
> 
> Going back to my drop pod theory, I was going to deploy a unit near his aegis line defence and pick them all off. I'm expecting him to hide all his devastators and scouts behind a wall and I think the aegis gives a 2/3+ cover save, will the Auspex reduce his cover save or am i misreading the rules? I have 10 points free which i used equipping my sgt's with melta bombs but reducing his cover saves seems a more viable option?


a defence line gives a 4+ cover save its under battlefield debris( page 104 small rule book).
and a auspex is a good bit of gear and will drop that cover save to a 5+ which will be very helpful/ but remember an auspex is special issue wargear so i think its only ya hq can take it and it only has a range of 12" but not to much a problem with a jump pack or scouting ravenguard tbh


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## the_barwn (Jul 23, 2011)

Seeing as you play Raven Guard, what you could do to freshen things up is try the Raptors Chapter tactics from forgeworld because they are from your gene stock & that would shock him with your shooting being harder


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## raven_jim (Sep 27, 2013)

Raptors Chapter tactics? This is something I will have to read into. As this is a friendly match i suppose i can use any chapter tactics but out of curiosity what are the rules with forge world stuff? Are they allowed is tournaments? Sorry I am going off topic here...


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## the_barwn (Jul 23, 2011)

Normally you would have to check with the tournament organiser but in a friendly game, it would be a suprise to your opponent :biggrin:


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