# What Would The Chaos Legions Do If They Won?



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Hey everyone, because of the increasingly stereotypical representations of the various Chaos Legions and renegades (shudder...) I'm finding it difficult to imagine what kind of Empire the forces of Chaos would forge after their (inevitable) victory.

For example, the Word Bearers Legion have a very definite purpose in mind. Convert all of humanity into the worship and service of the Chaos pantheon. Using the power of Chaos they would then begin a new crusade to rid the universe of xenos (indeed most Legions have maintained their complete hatred for all things alien)

The problem arises when we take another Legion, say for example the Iron Warriors. The Iron Warriors have a legitimate reason for their continual struggle in The Long War. They were wronged (at least in their own minds) by the Emperor and many of Perturbo's fellow Primarchs. It was only through Perturbo's Iron will and determination that the legion was saved from being dashed and destroyed upon the defences of a million worlds in a million systems, with the sole purpose of contributing to the Emperor's quest to become a God and Rogal Dorn's (and others) vainglory. 

Now despite this legitimate, multifaceted and interesting background we have the problem of the stereotype of the Iron Warriors (which existed in their own time) as fortress builders and breakers. So in this case, what is their motivation in life once they cast the Corpse from it's self appointed throne? Will they just build fortress after fortress on world after world? 

Thats the problem for me, and its something I would like others maybe to help clarify. Its very difficult to imagine what many of the Legions would do with themselves after the successful victory on Terra.

So what do you all think? Would the IW's become landscape architects, would the EC paint some pretty pictures, would the DG give a new meaning to the phrase 'coughs and sneezes spread diseases'. 

Despite my poor attempts at humour, I would like any and all answers that might help solve this problem. But for the love of all things holy, don't just say something like 'The Imperium will never be defeated' or 'Chaos is too unstable a force to maintain an Empire', because as I demonstrated it is easy to imagine the WB's supplanting the Imperial Cult for the worship of the Chaos Gods, its just harder to figure out what all the other Legions would do.

So what say you?


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## Tyrannus (Sep 19, 2010)

Hmmm, That is a good question about the IW. And if I were tbh with you, I have no idea.
I mean, the IW are like those type of people who are so focused on revenge, they don't think about the consequences or whats gonna happen afterwards.

But I'll take a stab and say the IW will forge a sort of empire and act like a corporation selling arms and acting like mercenaries for the other warring legions and factions of chaos.

Which goes to my second point which will touch upon what I think would happen to the traitor legions as a whole after the fall of the Imperium: (surprise, surprise) Chaos.

Probably start warring with each other, with some legions following a specific God helping their patrons in the great game, while other legions like the IW might sell and aid anyone willing to pay for their assistance.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Continue to fight amongst themselves. The very nature of Chaos is that it's not a unified force.

The four Chaos gods fight amongst each other for dominance.

Just take the Eye of Terror (where the gods and their proxies fight an eternal war) and then multiply that 50,000 times across the galaxy.


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## Tyrannus (Sep 19, 2010)

It would make the Milky way into a living, breathing Hell In this universe.
(If one doesn't exist already.)


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

They'd probably have to inherit all the Imperium's problems like the Tyranid Swarms and Ork Menace. There would still be endless war for humanities survival.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

You know, thats the problem I was getting at, I think that the idea that everything would just disintergrate into chaos (oh the irony) is actually a bit of imperial propaganda (not literally, just that because we naturally think similarly to the imperium, we often unknowingly take its perspective of things.)

An interesting book on this subject is _Daemon World_ by Ben Counter, now the book is by no means a top 10 read, but it does shed some light on the matter. There is a large part of the world in which the book is set that is controlled by a cult of Slaanesh led by Lady Charbydia. The city and all its inhabitants are worshipers of Slaanesh and there are various temples were 'pleasures of the flesh' etc are constantly taking place, but by in large the capital city is like a functioning like a capital city.

I think people underestimate the ability of people to get used to new and strange surroundings. Would the Legions decend into war and conflict? Quite possibly. Would the hundreds of billions of imperial citizens become mere playthings for demons? You know probably not. Don't forget, why humans are so valuable to the Chaos Gods is that they aren't created by a part of that diety's power, unlike demons which are. So when a human joins a Chaos God its all positive gain, when a God makes a demon its actually a subtraction from their power. Thats why the Word Bearers insist that humanity (and especially Astartes) are far more valuable than pathetic demons.


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

3 words...

Kill! Maim! Burn!


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Just look at the Eye of Terror. That's where the minions of Chaos hold sway.

There is constant fighting amongst the warbands. Each is trying to gain additional territory, knowledge, weapons, artifacts, and most of all, favor of their god.

When one Chaos god and all his followers are ferocious berserkers, you can probably bet that shit is going to get ruined. Quite often and quite quickly.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

ckcrawford said:


> They'd probably have to inherit all the Imperium's problems like the Tyranid Swarms and Ork Menace. There would still be endless war for humanities survival.


I think ckcrawford is correct in assuming that the Chaos Legions would have to take on much of the burden of the imperium. The Chaos Astartes might think that they are superior to basic humans, but they need them for new recruits, logistical tasks etc, and yes even sacrificial offerings. So to assume that the Chaos Legions would just exterminate humanity is ridiculous.



Imperious Rex said:


> 3 words...
> 
> Kill! Maim! Burn!


I know your joking (at least I hope so) buts thats exactly the kind of sterotype of Khorne followers that sucks. If they thought like that, how the hell do they stick around for thousands of years?



hailene said:


> Just look at the Eye of Terror. That's where the minions of Chaos hold sway.
> 
> There is constant fighting amongst the warbands. Each is trying to gain additional territory, knowledge, weapons, artifacts, and most of all, favor of their god.
> 
> When one Chaos god and all his followers are ferocious berserkers, you can probably bet that shit is going to get ruined. Quite often and quite quickly.


I'd say there would be alot of infighting. The only point I would disagree with, is you have inadvertantly missed your own point. The Chaos Legions are currently bottled up and are forced to fight for resources. If they owned the Imperium, they would have a constant supply of logistical necessities such as ammo, ships, forges, slaves, recruits etc.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

It's not simply that they're lacking in resources, but the fact that they want more.

More planets. More slaves. More weapons. More more more more.

Plus, as the codex states, they win favor with their god as they slay members of their opposing god's forces.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I actually don't think that the traitor Legions would know what to do if they won. Outside of the Great Game being played in the Eye, the forces of chaos are almost defined by their opposition to the Imperium, at least when it comes to those who sided with Horus and those groups that later turned to heresy.
To destroy the Imperium would need the Legions to unite under one banner; once that battle had been won, however, it would be a replay of what happened in the Eye after the Scouring, as each Legion, hell, each Warleader tries to get their agenda as the only one. 
Abaddon might be able to lead the troops to cast down the Emperor, but I think it would take the daemon-Primarchs to be able to conquer the galaxy and actually make those gains stick in the face of all of the other menaces out there.

GFP


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

think i like the idea of the IW becoming mercanaries for hire as well as likened to a arms corprosation that would just be so cool, one thing for certain, might find out what the AL are upto now if this ever came to pass.


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## Eremite (Aug 27, 2010)

Great question!

It would certainly vary from Legion to Legion (and of course Chapter to Chapter for more recent converts). Some Legions would specific agendas of galactic rulership, establishing their own (rival) empires such as the Black Legion and Word Bearers. The aligned legions might follow this path, apart from the World Eaters who are too busy killing to rule, or simply do the bidding of their dark masters in the great game. The Iron Warriors and Night Lords would probably become mercenaries just trying to survive as I really do feel that these two Legions in particular really have no goals beyond their ancient grudge against the Emperor and Imperium. With them destroyed, they’d mill around pointlessly for some time. The Alpha Legion would do what they’ve always done. Whatever that is...

With regards to whether or not the average citizens life would change... It would, I’m sure, quickly descend into anarchy as the barriers between material space and the warp are weakened by the sudden loss of the Emperor (especially in Segmentum Solar – that warp gate he’s sitting on is suddenly wide open...) and probably by ritual and effort from the many mortal chaos servants. Smaller alien empires (the tau, Q’orl, eldar) might hold out against the tide of chaos, but only for a time. The big threats like tyranids and Necrons would have no cohesive resistance so could actually destroy/conquer the universe... But then again they might be destroyed by swarms of daemons.

Orks, needless to say, would love every minute of it.

With regards to the idea that chaos ‘needs’ humans (or other sentient beings), it’s a yes and a no. They’re a food source in terms of souls and emotional energy. Chaos servants and their victims tend to be a lot more emotionally unstable (and therefore more productive) than mentally healthy people. So insanity would probably be the order of the day.


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

The GK book "The Hammer of Daemons" spends a lot of time describing what a Chaos planet is like with the political intrigue and in-fighting that constantly takes all in their chosen Gods name. IMHO I think the galaxy would just become an extension of this where each faction ruled its empire and made war on the others. There could never be any sort of cohesion because they only thing that ever bands them together is their hatred of the imperium which would no longer exist. It's the paradox of Chaos; most people turn to Chaos to gain control of their existence, but in reality the ultimate goal of Chaos is...Chaos!


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## The Crimson King (Oct 14, 2010)

They would destroy each other.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

It was rumoured in "Legion" that if Chaos was successful they would just self destruct because chaos is powered by the emotion of humans mostly.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> It was rumoured in "Legion" that if Chaos was successful they would just self destruct because chaos is powered by the emotion of humans mostly.


No, that's not what the Cabal postulated. They predicted that if Horus triumphed in the Heresy and supplanted the Emperor, that he would loathe himself for what he had committed and that he would bring the human species to the bring of extinction in a final apocalyptic war that would have seen even Horus' closest allies turn on him.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> No, that's not what the Cabal postulated. They predicted that if Horus triumphed in the Heresy and supplanted the Emperor, that he would loathe himself for what he had committed and that he would bring the human species to the bring of extinction in a final apocalyptic war that would have seen even Horus' closest allies turn on him.


Yes but as a result of that it would destroy chaos to, that's why they wanted the Alpha Legion to help Horus. Humanity would be destroyed but so would the great enemy.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> No, that's not what the Cabal postulated. They predicted that if Horus triumphed in the Heresy and supplanted the Emperor, that he would loathe himself for what he had committed and that he would bring the human species to the bring of extinction in a final apocalyptic war that would have seen even Horus' closest allies turn on him.


C-O-T-E is quite right, it is Horus' loathing of what he has done that triggers the cataclysmic event of the extiction, as he probably turns on all is bretheren, they in turn try to stop him, and there is one final apocalyptic battle.



Words_of_Truth said:


> Yes but as a result of that it would destroy chaos to, that's why they wanted the Alpha Legion to help Horus. Humanity would be destroyed but so would the great enemy.


Two things to remember not everyone in the 40k universe has a singular agenda (yes even Khorne followers, shock, horror) so who is to say the Cabal don't have other motives at heart? 

Also why would Chaos suddenly stop when humanity was extinguished? The Laer were alien followers of Slaanesh, the Eldar have to deal with Chaos as well in terms of constantly fleeing Slaanesh, he was borne out of their, not human, emotions, which are said to be many times more powerful than even a human psyker. 

I really like the IW idea that has been advanced so far, them with their Empire, dealing between Legions, that sounds very good fluff wise.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

D-A-C said:


> C-O-T-E is quite right, it is Horus' loathing of what he has done that triggers the cataclysmic event of the extiction, as he probably turns on all is bretheren, they in turn try to stop him, and there is one final apocalyptic battle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I said it was rumoured. The whole idea of Chaos self destructing was that chaos is simply an echo of all living beings within the universe and a vast majority of it is made up of the echo of humanity, their thoughts, their feelings etc etc. Robbing Chaos of a vast majority of it's power in one fell swoop or simply absorbing everything into chaos by it's dominance of humanity could cause a feed back surge so great it could self destruct.

It's like the Matrix, the way neo defeated smith was to let himself be defeated and because smith was only there because of neo he got cancelled out. It's the same as Chaos, you can't half Chaos without living beings and if you destroy the majority of all life in the galaxy then chaos would either implode or be so weak it could no longer cause any problems.

This is also relates to the reasons the races were originally created in the first place. Eldar were created to help defeat the C'tan but their raw physic abilities brought about chaos, Humans and Orcs were also created to defeat the C'tan but were to develop at a much fast rate and were also susceptible to chaos, at least humans were as orcs are to dumb to register in the warp much. The final race to be created were the Tau, they evolve quickly they don't register in the warp at all so chaos is no problem and they don't fear them and eventually their technology will be so powerful it'll be able to counter the C'tan and Necrons and everthing else, except Tyranids maybe.

Chaos was just a mistake, a mistake that would only be distinguished the same way it was created.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

If the Thousand Sons took over the galaxy would literally be an uglier place.:laugh:


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## Master_Marius (Sep 5, 2010)

fight ones against the others.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Tyrannus said:


> It would make the Milky way into a living, breathing Hell In this universe.
> (If one doesn't exist already.)


It's called pittsburgh

I could see after about a year of parting, nurgle dancing around, tzeentch.....reading books(?), Khorn a massive fight club, Slaanesh....drugs sex and ro....wait...forget the last part, the forces chaos begins fighting among themselves again.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Honestly they would tart fighting each other with the most powerful legion basically becoming the new target for all the other disfranchised chapters both loyalist/and traitor.

Lol abbadon the new leader of mankind fighting a noble war for the continued survival of humanity against the ruinous daemon primarchs who want to destroy all life.


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## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

The planets in Hammer of Daemons and Daemon World show some kind order though. If anything, these worlds are just ruled by superior Daemons or Heralds. I think that like in Daemon World, they would basically sell themselves as a personal retinues for these Daemon Lords against the lesser forces that constantly try to gang up and overthrow the bigger powers.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

LukeValantine said:


> Honestly they would tart fighting each other with the most powerful legion basically becoming the new target for all the other disfranchised chapters both loyalist/and traitor.
> 
> Lol abbadon the new leader of mankind fighting a noble war for the continued survival of humanity against the ruinous daemon primarchs who want to destroy all life.


I'm bit confused as to which Daemon Primarchs wish to destroy all life? I don't think that is any of their goals. There may be a challenge for leadership, as Horus was undoubtedly number one when he was around, but after that it is very open as to who would be top dog.



TRU3 CHAOS said:


> The planets in Hammer of Daemons and Daemon World show some kind order though. If anything, these worlds are just ruled by superior Daemons or Heralds. I think that like in Daemon World, they would basically sell themselves as a personal retinues for these Daemon Lords against the lesser forces that constantly try to gang up and overthrow the bigger powers.


I'm glad you concur Tru3 Chaos, thats what I've been arguing as well, that society under Chaos would be weird, and probably horrible, but that society would still largely function, albeit in a way that is simply too difficult for us to imagine. 

I still think they might try and restart the crusades though, I really do.


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## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

D-A-C said:


> I'm bit confused as to which Daemon Primarchs wish to destroy all life? I don't think that is any of their goals. There may be a challenge for leadership, as Horus was undoubtedly number one when he was around, but after that it is very open as to who would be top dog.


Actually, I don't think the Primarch Daemon Princes care about the fairs of mortals. This is cliche but if you think about it, Most daemons refer to Daemon Princes as being tainted because they were once human. So in many ways I would say that the Daemon Princes especially great ones like the primarchs are more concerned in obtaining favor from Daemons and their Gods... at least for now.



D-A-C said:


> I'm glad you concur Tru3 Chaos, thats what I've been arguing as well, that society under Chaos would be weird, and probably horrible, but that society would still largely function, albeit in a way that is simply too difficult for us to imagine.
> 
> I still think they might try and restart the crusades though, I really do.


Well I am the Tru3 Chaos. Even in a Khorne "society", like in Hammer of Daemons, it seems as though they can function as well. They just try to manage blood letting in the arena and in seperate battle fields so it doesn't ruin the functioning part of that society. And though Khorne is known for "blood for the blood god" Khorne also is "martial nobility and honour." So to an extent it gives _some_ guidelines to making sure it doesn't fall to complete anarchic results.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

You guys are citing examples of areas that worship a single deity.

Sadly, there are 4. And these 4 fight each other constantly.

If the question was, "What if one Chaos god won, what would happen?", that'd be different.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

The question is though what would the _Legions_ do if they won. Not specifically Chaos. And I bet half of them would probably become slaves to Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons that control worlds. The other half would probably be roaming around picking fights with everyone and everything else. 

I would argue though, that Chaos is meant to fight itself or else the whole galaxy would fluctuate unevenly with only one or fewer emotions.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

hailene said:


> "What if one Chaos god won, what would happen?",


Chaos would cease to exist.


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## Tyrannus (Sep 19, 2010)

Here's an interesting theory:

What if Chaos takes out the necrons and tyranids? (big IF) Basically have complete dominion of the Milky way (Minus the Orks cause you can't seem to get rid of them). Yes, I reckon there would be alot of infighting because of the inherit nature of chaos; but another reason could so the Chaos Gods can give a xenos race from a different galaxy time to develop and heavily populate said galaxy.

Once that happens, they slowly start corrupting this new race (as a sort of vanguard and litmus test). Then once the Gods know they are worth the effort and have a slight hold hold in their galaxy, they create a rip in the warp and spew forth the legions of hell in their galaxy!

This sort of (farfetched) theory appeals to me because it makes humanity the true bad guys, and with the help of the Chaos Gods become like the tyranids; going to different galaxies sowing Chaos and disorder wherever they go, feeding the Dark gods as anarchy takes hold of another helpless xenos race.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Assuming the Chaos Legions somehow "won" as is, I imagine the condition for victory would be some sort of victory that combined the destruction of Terra with the shattering of the Imperium (meaning, rendering it unable to remain a cohesive entity).

At that point, absent a truly unifying figure (Abaddon is not it, and has not been it; he is merely the greatest man amongst them), I can't imagine the Legions doing anything other than pursuing a variety of agendas. There would be a variety of those.

Some, like the World Eaters, would change very little, I think. They would remain dangerous to the other Legions and the Galaxy at large.

Some few, like Honsou before his twist of rage, might pursue a sort of poisoned idealism: remember his stated belief that Humanity would ultimately prosper under, and be stronger for its allegiance with, Chaos? He doesn't strike me as the sort to want to eradicate Mankind (at least not then).

Most, however, would probably inflict on the Galaxy at large what they did to the Eye of Terror: destructive wars caused by their penchant for infighting, horrific abuses to fuel rituals needed to serve said wars, the establishment of strongholds over which they would fight said wars, etc. Chaos is conflict, and anything approaching peace would imply intolerable stagnation.


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

Well, that and the fact that the Chaos Gods don't really like each other.


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## DrinCalhar (Jul 10, 2010)

They would kill themselves off a few months after they win.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

sit around after raping pillaging and murder drink all day and play russian roulette to the tune of swords of a thousand men? or YMCA if youre the emperors children


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

If the Chaos Legions won they'd plunder everything on Terra, dig deep into the layers upon layers of ruins below the planet's surface and eventually rediscover GW. Then, though initially bewildered, they'd start organising Warhammer 40k tabletop tournaments to be held between the legions but it'll be really boring coz' there'll only be Ultramarines models left (and it's probably really hard to do conversions and paint models when you're wearing gauntlets).


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## Lord_Anonymous (Oct 13, 2010)

As if they'd win to start with...:laugh: god i hope not... :blush: there would be endless debates of whose god is better!


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