# FMCs



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I've never used these before, always been self conscious when it comes to using them as I'm used to large monsters in normal fantasy getting owned rather quickly and kind of came to uninformed conclusion it was the same in 40k.

So I was wondering whats the best way to use them, I've got a bloodthirster that I've had for a while now but never used and fancy trying it out but I don't know the best way to use them. Should I just have him jump 12" every turn or is it best to fly which I'm not familiar with either.


----------



## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Much like almost anything in the game, they are often best fielded in multiples. One FMC will get focused down and killed. Having two or more will ensure that at least one or two will survive till they get into combat.

With the changes the the FMC rules, they can no longer charge after switching movement modes, making turn 2 charges much harder. If your FMC is shooty, I'd keep them in the air. As for one that assault, I cannot say. Swooping them turn 1 will keep them safer from enemy shots, but opens them up on turn two as they have to wait till they charge.


----------



## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

@The Sturk has it right. Imo, the only viable cc FMC is the nurgle daemon prince. with a 2+ cover save on the jump he can charge unschated in turn 2. the other FMC are now best uset for that even flyby attack and shooting / psyking.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Ok thanks, if I did use the bloodthirster then it's better to keep him jumping so he can charge freely right? I'll look into getting a nurgle daemon prince, how come it has 2+ cover?


----------



## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

yes, jumping is better altough you will be shot better :laugh:
The Nurgle Daemon rule gives you shrouded. a FMC can Jink even if gliding. So if you jink to a 4+ cover, you benefit from the shrouded rule, going to 2+. Not jinking he still have a 5+ cover. But since you want him in cc, who cares about the snapshot thing.
The jink can be used even by the bloodthister, mind you. So he will not be so defenseless, just less reliable on getting in melee unschated.


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Note that you can't jink when you've landed. So best case scenario:

Turn 1: Swoop a long distance. Get shot by enemies with Skyfire, and rapid-firing small arms. Jink for a 4++.

Turn 2: Drop to normal mode. Get shot by all enemies freely. No Jink.

Turn 3: Move and Assault. Get shot by Overwatch. Potentially fail the charge. Probably win the combat and have enemy run away. Get shot again after consolidation.

Turn 4... You've probably won or lost the game by now. Assuming your FMC survived this long.

Personally, if you don't have a decent set of ranged weapons/psychic powers I wouldn't even use them offensively. I'd keep them on the ground, hidden, guarding a valuable unit that's taking an objective or something. Use them as a counter-charge unit and to prevent aggressive play by Wraithknights or Riptides.


----------



## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Sethis said:


> Turn 2: Drop to normal mode. Get shot by all enemies freely. No Jink.


I'm not sure you're right on this one. As I read the rules, it simply states that a FMC has jink. It says nothing about having to be in a certain flight mode - And as such, it can be used even when on the ground.


----------



## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Nordicus said:


> As I read the rules, it simply states that a FMC has jink.


Hilariously valid. Just remember:



> The decision (to Jink) must be made *before* any To Hit rolls have been made.


----------



## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Sethis said:


> Note that you can't jink when you've landed


I've to call you a liar on this :laugh:
FMC's have on their rules Jink. Nowhere on the book says that they have to swoop or that they are limited into their jink use. That was 6th 
Right now, you can jink whenever you want!


----------



## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

FMCs are good, but not great anymore. Smash going to one attack has made a big difference, as well.


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

That'll probably get FAQ'd really quickly (by GW standards) otherwise 2++ Nurgle Princes are very strong melee threats. I don't have the rulebook yet so can't be more precise.


----------



## mayegelt (Mar 18, 2014)

They aren't 2++, it is a 2+ cover save. So doesn't work in melee. It is just the fact they can get to melee without getting hit to much.


----------



## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

mayegelt said:


> They aren't 2++, it is a 2+ cover save. So doesn't work in melee. It is just the fact they can get to melee without getting hit to much.


and that is a fix to the OMG TOO SHOOTY AN EDITION rant that lasted for more than a year with 6th ed. now you can get FMCs and bikers in cc reliably (other guys still get a 4+ so not bad!)


----------



## Squire (Jan 15, 2013)

Jumping seems the most sensible way to use a non nurgle CC FMC. The only situations I could imagine using a turn to swoop would be if there isn't line of sight blocking terrain you can jump to on T1 and it's obvious your FMC is going to get gunned down, but there is LOS blocking terrain within a swoop move. It could keep something like a daemon prince alive for a later charge once you've killed/assaulted some of the enemy shooting units. That seems like a pretty lame scenario

Alternatively I suppose if your opponent has lots of good shooting but no anti air you might want to keep your FMC out of the game for a turn or two until a better chance to land appears. Not a very good situation either to be honest.

I really dislike this new swooping rule


----------



## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

swooping is only useful for ML3 princes that want to stay out of trouble and cast cast cast! 
Or nice if you have to use them as antiair, a thing sometis you will be forced to do


----------



## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

neferhet said:


> and that is a fix to the OMG TOO SHOOTY AN EDITION rant that lasted for more than a year with 6th ed. now you can get FMCs and bikers in cc reliably (other guys still get a 4+ so not bad!)


Yes--to fix a too-shooty edition they made it so that you can't charge with an FMC the turn after swooping _and_ so that an FMC DSing in _must_ swoop, effectively nerfing every non-nurgle melee FMC to the point of unusability. A great fix to a too-shooty edition--ruining the one unit type that could still reliably get into combat, with Nurgle DP's as the one exception.

...yeah, I'm a bit bitter.


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Well if you want a melee alternative to FMCs then Land Raiders are now very attractive with the new damage chart. They laugh off everything Tau can throw at them (even Farstrike only has a 1/6 chance to blow one up when he hits) apart from Fusion Blasters, and Eldar just have Wraithknights that are seen with any regularity. And two squads of Hammernators royally screw over both armies.

I appreciate that doesn't help Nids or Daemons that much though...


----------



## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

well, now FMC are just not auto include anymore. I think that anything that makes something not-auto win is a good thing.
but i agree on the fact that the nerf bat was too hard on cc monsters, making only viable shooty ones, in a competititve ambient.


----------



## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

neferhet said:


> but i agree on the fact that the nerf bat was too hard on cc monsters, making only viable shooty ones, in a competititve ambient.


I agree, but on the other hand, the Slaanesh whip-ironarm-FMC just got that much more deadly, as it's harder to shoot down. At least there's that.


----------



## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

in fact, biomancy FMC are a thing. probably the only viable way to get in melee or near


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

neferhet said:


> well, now FMC are just not auto include anymore. I think that anything that makes something not-auto win is a good thing.
> but i agree on the fact that the nerf bat was too hard on cc monsters, making only viable shooty ones, in a competititve ambient.



Meanwhile, devourers flyrants are probably the best fmc in the game now. 

Nurgle and be'lakor using jump mode while jinking are about it. Everything else simply dies. I played fmc a lot in 6th, and the list is completely dead now. You have to go the other way with hounds/seekers/blob units/grinders. 

Ps grinders are amazing in every way now.


----------



## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Ravner298 said:


> Meanwhile, devourers flyrants are probably the best fmc in the game now.
> 
> Nurgle and be'lakor using jump mode while jinking are about it. Everything else simply dies. I played fmc a lot in 6th, and the list is completely dead now. You have to go the other way with hounds/seekers/blob units/grinders.
> 
> Ps grinders are amazing in every way now.


Some on point analysis right here--I hope you Heretics are paying attention. Only one grounding test for your Flyrants? Mmmm-mmm-mmh, delicious. Otherwise, Hounds+scout and hope your opponent isn't Inquisition-squatting servo-skulls everywhere.

A minor thought I've had, when considering Be'lakor: he automatically has the new "Shrouding" power, so he can make one non-Nurgle melee FMC get a 2+ cover save as it jump monstrous creature hops its way up the field, if you manage to get the power off then Jink. So with Be'lakor in the bunch, you can bring a Bloodthirster or melee-bound LoC, if you want. Or, for that matter, a non-Nurglish DP of some sort (say, a Slaaneshi DP with Lash taken as AA, but your hypothetical opponent didn't bring flyers).

To say nothing of the way that the new vehicle damage chart treats Soul Grinders. If Defilers are almost worth it now, thing of how under-priced and fantastic Soul Grinders are, now! Run three plus an allied Helbrute formation/forgefiend/heldrake, and you are in walkerspam heaven, I should think... (the mathhammer checks out! But will actual games, is the question...)


----------



## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

i think, mossy, that your walker /defiler enthusiasm should be reduced 
even if they are not so easily destroyed now, they still reatain the same problem as before: they die to glancing. my beasties 3/4 of the times just die from autocannon or lootas spam. so they are just like before, without that crappy one-shot dead thing...


----------



## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

neferhet said:


> i think, mossy, that your walker /defiler enthusiasm should be reduced
> even if they are not so easily destroyed now, they still reatain the same problem as before: they die to glancing. my beasties 3/4 of the times just die from autocannon or lootas spam. so they are just like before, without that crappy one-shot dead thing...


Perhaps I am a fortunate soul, whose Daemon Engines tend to save 2/3 of their 5+ invulns. Perhaps.

4 HP or IWND are a blessing that counterbalances a great deal of glances, though, I must say. And if you get grimoire or Cursed Earth on some of these... *sighs contentedly, leans back*

The mere enemy frustration as your daemon engines shrug off pen after pen is worth it. Sure, you'll sometimes lose one, but... like I said, worth it.

(to be perfectly honest: yes, daemon engines are my blind spot. I have a love for them that my mathhammer-driven brain seldom gets to indulge in the actual list-building process, and paired with the aforementioned fact that when I do field daemon engines, they tend to save most of their invulns... I admit that I'll treat them heuristically rather than algorithmically. To my shame, as someone who prides themselves on their logical approach to D6-base probability in 40k)

edit: now now, let's be perfectly fair, here. With Daemonic Possession basically rendering 2/3 of the Pen chart useless, getting rid of the "crappy one-shot dead thing" means that an AV 13 vehicle with 4 hull points is basically a 4 wound, T9 creature*. That's freaking _tough_.

*T9 assumes 4+ to wound, seeing as T9 + 4 (on a D6 for Pen) is a glance of 13.


----------



## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Mossy Toes said:


> Perhaps I am a fortunate soul, whose Daemon Engines tend to save 2/3 of their 5+ invulns. Perhaps.


Agh. i hate you. in 2 years i've only managed 2 invuln saves and 3 IWND rolls...and for a year i played regularly dakkafiend and defiler... consider also that my deamon weapons roll "1" 4 times on 6...and you have a perspective on my point of view (not jocking here. all actual facts!



Mossy Toes said:


> edit: now now, let's be perfectly fair, here. With Daemonic Possession basically rendering 2/3 of the Pen chart useless, getting rid of the "crappy one-shot dead thing" means that an AV 13 vehicle with 4 hull points is basically a 4 wound, T9 creature*. That's freaking tough.


Well, to think about it as such... how about an AV 12 creature, instead (which is the CSM standard)?


----------



## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

neferhet said:


> Agh. i hate you. in 2 years i've only managed 2 invuln saves and 3 IWND rolls...and for a year i played regularly dakkafiend and defiler... consider also that my deamon weapons roll "1" 4 times on 6...and you have a perspective on my point of view (not jocking here. all actual facts!
> 
> 
> 
> Well, to think about it as such... how about an AV 12 creature, instead (which is the CSM standard)?


Muahaha, I have been leeching your luck on engine invulns. Not Daemon Weapon rolls--those I often manage to fail at the worst possible time... (Say, while I try to finish off a wounded Wraithknight before it instagibs me)

AV 12 is "wounded" on 4+ by S8, so a T8 creature, basically. Sure, Armorbane/melta adds another D6 and such, but by the same coin... immune to poison.


----------

