# Sooo my Dark Eldar where called Over powered today.



## Terricus (Apr 7, 2014)

So I played a game against the guy who brought the pally star grey knights to our last tournament and won (tigurius, cotes, 10 pallys, 3 dks) and I wound up getting first turn with my dark eldar/eldar army (wraith knight and farseer) right off the bat I killed 7 of his pallys and after that he made them invisible and I went to work on the big dreads, picking them off one by one. By turn 5 he had 3 models left on the field. He then went on to say the "dark eldar need to be nerfed and they are completely over powered." I firmly believe dark eldar are a good dex and have enjoyed them but I hardly believe they are op. Have you guys ever had a game where everything went your way and your opponent accused your army of being op? I dont know if I should be offended or feel complimented lol.


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## Shanny2 (Feb 17, 2010)

nice job i would say lol i havent played a real game but alil here and there with my brother but i'm sure he wasnt expecting a beating lol


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## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr (Apr 3, 2012)

bad luck of the draw on his part, and he sounds like a one trick pony if hes complaining that Dark Eldar are Overpowered, as, while they can decimate forces quickly, they are anything but overpowered, due to their extreme quishyness.


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

Yeah, it's all about how you play the game. A couple of times I've been called OP, other times I've beat lists that I was told were OP. Really, it's part luck on the dice rolls and part being able to play well. I'd be interested to see the lists, but on a hunch the person was probably just bitter about losing.


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## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr (Apr 3, 2012)

Deus Mortis said:


> Yeah, it's all about how you play the game. A couple of times I've been called OP, other times I've beat lists that I was told were OP. Really, it's part luck on the dice rolls and part being able to play well. I'd be interested to see the lists, but on a hunch the person was probably just bitter about losing.


as a dark eldar player, theres no probably about it, DE tend to get that kind of response, either we decimate, or get decimated fairly quickly.


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

That happened to me in the transition from 4th to 5 th edition with my orks. I went from hearing that "Orks suck" to three months later hearing that I play orks because they are over powered. A lot as others have said is about how you play and a little luck. I have beat list that were suppose to be over powered and then I have had list that beat me when I should have beat them.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

The_Werewolf_Arngeirr said:


> he sounds like a one trick pony if hes complaining that Dark Eldar are Overpowered


I was thinking this one as well. Usually when I hear someone saying a army is overpowered after one match, it's because they knee-jerk react to getting a severe beating. Then they would rather blame the game than just admitting they met the rock to their scissor list.

DE is a glass-hammer; Either they win in 3 turns or they die by the 5th in my experience. There's hardly ever any middle ground.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

My armies get called overpowered by people who didn't have a plan to beat them. 
10 csm terminators in one big blob? OP!
An army made entirely of aspect warriors? OP!

DE are good at killing MC's with poison and providing weight of fire which is the best way to kill terminators... so obviously they're completely OP as you managed to beat a list made entirely of those two things and you should be ashamed :laugh:

Edit:I can't remember who said it but I think this is apt...
"Cheese is the battle cry of the ill-prepared"


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Pally-star players tend to be the scum of the game.

Cheap way to build a high cost 'army'.

Next time you know you'll be playing him, Take Vect to pretty much guarantee first turn and repeat the beating.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Well the pally star is hardly an all comers list...
Very little models so not much weight if fire...
If he acts like a bitch because he's not playing properly, it's no wonder he gets smashed... His dread knights were pretty much screwed at the sight if you...


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## Terricus (Apr 7, 2014)

Lol I agree completely, ive been playing dark eldar for 2 years now and have had great success but like stated throughout the post, its either feast or famine with them. Ive had tournaments where I went 3-0 and I have had some where I get smashed and sent home with an 0-3. But yea, the pally star is low model count and mcs. Basically our MO. I just really wanted to see how I would of done against him and wanted a pick up game. This was my first 7th ed game with my dark eldar (been playing csm and space wolves) and he is a pretty cocky dude, but he did appolagize by over facebook by saying good game and sorry for leaving so abruptly.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Terricus said:


> he is a pretty cocky dude, but he did appolagize by over facebook by saying good game and sorry for leaving so abruptly.


Interesting fact; I know 4 players who play Dark Angels. All 4 fit this MO; They put out the same army and complain if their termies can't kill the entire opposing army.

I hope it's not a general thing :S


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

Nordicus said:


> Interesting fact; I know 4 players who play Dark Angels. All 4 fit this MO; They put out the same army and complain if their termies can't kill the entire opposing army.
> 
> I hope it's not a general thing :S


It is where im from. Thats why i hardly ever bring terminators anymore. Terminators are a one trick pony in my opinion and thats to tie down an enemy unit (or units for a few turns while they appear in the backfield or charge from a land raider. i never expect my terminators (when i field them to survive more than two turns and therefore i dont bother spending all the points on them.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Gret79 said:


> Edit:I can't remember who said it but I think this is apt...
> "Cheese is the battle cry of the ill-prepared"


That would be me!

I always used to love low model count opponents with my Eldar. I'd just SL them to death.

Now I've abandoned 40k for Infinity where your list doesn't matter nearly as much as your tactics.

Good riddance, Rock,Paper, Scissors!


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## Terricus (Apr 7, 2014)

Hahahaha brutal deathklokk  I understand why they use paladins. 2 ws and psykers but they are still t4 and I have a lot of st 8 ap2 or better weapons in my list...along with an ass load of splinter weapons


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## Code: Crimson (May 20, 2014)

I have only ever once had my army called OP, and it was during my first 3 months playing the game against this guy playing Imperial Fists, while I was playing Chaos Space Marines.

He had set up his list so that he could have a ton of marines storm up behind a line of three Centurions, and had no transports to speak of. As he was playing Fists, his ultimate goal seemed to be to find some nice spots to camp out and start gunning down threats. He also had a squad of Sternguard camping a building, and his HQ, possibly a Chapter Master, running up with the marines.

My list, being limited to what I owned, consisted of two squads of Chaos Marines, one with a plasma gun and heavy bolter, the other with two plasma guns. They were meant to be backed up by two squads of autocannon Havocs, and a Tzeench Daemon Prince with the Burning Brand would lead them into battle. And by Warp if that little guy didn't do just that. Then there was a squad of Warp Talons deep striking in to help the Daemon Prince land a nice charge. I think I had something else in there, Chosen perhaps, but it really doesn't matter.

Oh, and this guy also was cheating! Since I didn't know the rules all that well, and this guy, having fully painted his models to be Fists, talking about how much he loved their lore and their additions in the codex, and being a veteran player who had been in the game for over 10 years, claimed their Chapter Tactic was that every single bolt based weapon was twin-linked, all the time, no matter what range.

Well it sure ended up not mattering at all anyway, because Prince Killgore (the name I gave to my Daemon Prince) nearly tabled him in a few turns. My marines hid behind a wall until his army had been reduced to a single 10 man squad of marines, with Prince Killgore still slamming away at the Sternguard, which now had his HQ in it. Since the mission was The Relic, my guys just kinda walked up to it, picked it up, and began walking back to their wall. The Havocs were able to kill a few marines here and there before Prince Killgore got to them, and for the most part they just watched the carnage unfold. 

And the best part of it all; at the very end, he starting shaking with rage as Killgore finished off his HQ with ease, and screamed "I ****ING CAN'T BELIEVE HOW OVERPOWERED CHAOS IS! DID G.W. EVEN TEST THIS?" It was then that my friends came over, one of which began laughing as he saw a lone Daemon Prince on the opponent's side of the table, and piles of dead marines on the other being packed up by an enraged Fists player. The other just asked how it went. I told them that at first I was scared of their Chapter Tactic, but then the Daemon Prince was so powerful on his own that he was able to wipe out whole squads in a phase. Then, the guy who was laughing stopped, and his face turned to the most wide-eyed expression the man could make, as he turned slowly to face the raging loyalist.

"You're cheating with Space Marines, and calling a brand new player with a single Daemon Prince overpowered?" 

The rager immediately stopped what he was doing and turned pale, and quickly tried to cover up his lies. My friend pulled his copy of the codex, and slammed it down next to the now-cheater, open on the Chapter Tactics page. "Really? I sure don't see a line that says you have twin-linked all the time! Do you? Please, enlighten me!"

The player cried "But the Daemon Prince is still overpowered! He killed almost all of my army like it was nothing!" 

"That's because you were using a stupid strategy that you bolstered by trying to cheat. Next time, actually play the game by the rules, and build an army that follows them."

The cheater then stormed out of the store, and we didn't see him again until recently, trying to sell off some old Imperial Fist models.


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

Code: Crimson said:


> I have only ever once had my army called OP, and it was during my first 3 months playing the game against this guy playing Imperial Fists, while I was playing Chaos Space Marines.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Moahahaha!!!


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

I hate cheaters... But it makes them 10 times better to wipe!
It's amazing the kind of lies people come up with if they think you don't know the rules... Often accompanied by a forgeten codex if you call them out on it as well...


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Code: Crimson said:


> I have only ever once had my army called OP, and it was during my first 3 months playing the game against this guy playing Imperial Fists, while I was playing Chaos Space Marines.
> 
> He had set up his list so that he could have a ton of marines storm up behind a line of three Centurions, and had no transports to speak of. As he was playing Fists, his ultimate goal seemed to be to find some nice spots to camp out and start gunning down threats. He also had a squad of Sternguard camping a building, and his HQ, possibly a Chapter Master, running up with the marines.
> 
> ...


This just made my evening.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I play a very balanced marine army that I've put together to face a lot of contingencies. 

My usual opponent is Dark Eldar and I tend to beat him, he's a tournament player but considers me one of the best in the store despite my nervousness and not that much of a steady grasp of the rules, but I have my marines down to a T imo, which I think is due to my anxiety that makes me worried so much I end up planning for all eventualities.

I have a thunderfire cannon if in case someone decides to camp or to ignore cover, my squads are small and spread out and supported by lighter tanks like Razorbacks so that he can't focus fire units to death, usually ends up meaning my small squads actually survive. You get the picture, problem is people already consider space marines OP any way and because I put loads of planning they now consider me to be a "power gamer".

I really want to prove I don't just play an over powered army but I'm worried about trying different things.


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## Terricus (Apr 7, 2014)

I feel ya, space marines are pretty balanced army but are far from op. in the right hands they are a great utility force capable of dealing with everyone. In 6th edition spaming was streamlined but now 7th has been run for a short, armies who are capable of dealing with multiple different dexes stand supreme. Eldar are still the king pin by far but, as more and more 7th ed dexes drop we will see more of a leveled field (famous last words lol)


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## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr (Apr 3, 2012)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I play a very balanced marine army that I've put together to face a lot of contingencies.
> 
> My usual opponent is Dark Eldar and I tend to beat him, he's a tournament player but considers me one of the best in the store despite my nervousness and not that much of a steady grasp of the rules, but I have my marines down to a T imo, which I think is due to my anxiety that makes me worried so much I end up planning for all eventualities.
> 
> ...


honestly, some people just cant stand the idea of a "list" built to win, and if you build to win you are automatically a power gamer in warhammer, its part of the reason i have not played in so long is because either i build to win or i build this shitty list that just gets floored every time. theres no fun in that.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

The_Werewolf_Arngeirr said:


> honestly, some people just cant stand the idea of a "list" built to win, and if you build to win you are automatically a power gamer in warhammer, its part of the reason i have not played in so long is because either i build to win or i build this shitty list that just gets floored every time. theres no fun in that.


That's my position, one of my friends though doesn't build lists to win he builds them for the hell of it and just to take part, but he always loses and I don't get it, my self confidence is already at a low, putting together a force to play a game with no expectation of winning would just make me feel like shit. I tried playing the Dark Eldar player with a 1k horus heresy word bearer force using daemons as allies to make up the points and it sucked and he destroyed me and that's probably the last time I'll do it. I don't want to play OP armies, I know I could destroy people if I did, I want to find a level where I'm competitive but not a sure thing but thats difficult.


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## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr (Apr 3, 2012)

Words_of_Truth said:


> That's my position, one of my friends though doesn't build lists to win he builds them for the hell of it and just to take part, but he always loses and I don't get it, my self confidence is already at a low, putting together a force to play a game with no expectation of winning would just make me feel like shit. I tried playing the Dark Eldar player with a 1k horus heresy word bearer force using daemons as allies to make up the points and it sucked and he destroyed me and that's probably the last time I'll do it. I don't want to play OP armies, I know I could destroy people if I did, I want to find a level where I'm competitive but not a sure thing but thats difficult.


its the bad seperation in warhammer though, and you wont ever see both sides agreeing, you have one side which builds only "for fun lists" which just take whatever for themeing and are almost always inneffecient with their points compared to competitive lists which take the list building aspect to a refined point. its a problem with warhammer itsself rather then an issue with the players though, as if you dont basically build cookie cutter lists, you will lose.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Words_of_Truth said:


> That's my position, one of my friends though doesn't build lists to win he builds them for the hell of it and just to take part, but he always loses and I don't get it, my self confidence is already at a low, putting together a force to play a game with no expectation of winning would just make me feel like shit. I tried playing the Dark Eldar player with a 1k horus heresy word bearer force using daemons as allies to make up the points and it sucked and he destroyed me and that's probably the last time I'll do it. I don't want to play OP armies, I know I could destroy people if I did, I want to find a level where I'm competitive but not a sure thing but thats difficult.


Did you try reading and understanding his book and your own?

As stated by Sun tzu


> If you know others and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know others but know yourself, you win one and lose one; if you do not know others and do not know yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Reaper45 said:


> Did you try reading and understanding his book and your own?
> 
> As stated by Sun tzu


My HH army was limited by the models I had, I had to include Erebus so I could use daemon allies and I didn't have a lot of models at the time only two squads of ten, a 5 man terminator squad and some daemons, it was quite rushed but he wanted a game and I fancied taking them for a spin. I didn't have enough range to take down his transports and all he did was shoot me to death from range since I was on foot and entirely made up of infantry. I brought the army with me on the day cause I thought I was going to be playing my other friend who had 1k worth of HH but he didn't show up. I basically wasn't really prepared for it.

I know how his army works very well now and how mine does which is why I guess I tend to beat him with my normal marines. I've played him often enough and not lost outright and the closest was a draw and that was only because he did a rule wrong in regards to template weapons and who takes the damage from them (it's from the centre of the template, not the model out in front, he took like 12 saves on his platform) I just don't want to be called a power gamer, which is why I'm wracking my brains on what I can do to prove otherwise.


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## TheV0791 (Jul 14, 2014)

WAIT... A grey knights player complained about DE being OP? :laugh: I've only ever heard it the other way around, and quite often too.
I believe that people will call anything OP when the subject of scrutiny is used correctly. I was told that my Vanguard Veterans were OP when they killed a Gorkanaut (I don't know spelling) a 30 man Boyz squad and a fully kitted Warboss in one round of combat. But meltabombs are for vehicles, Vanguard are for hordes and my CM is for your Warlord. :so_happy:I've just heard too many people say that Vanguard are terrible in a competitive list...


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## Terricus (Apr 7, 2014)

Lol I agree! He is a regular tourney player (I am as well to an extent except i dont net list) and he is a true power gamer. Now dont get me wrong I enjoy playing extremely difficult list, sometimes I win sometimes I get my ass kicked as the gentleman quoting sun tzu knows; the best defense is knowing your opponent as and knowing yourself. So losing is a part of the learning experirence. Now that being said people automatically believe units/armies are obsolete at top tables. This is actually a boon to the people who play those "under powered" armies. No one expects you, everyone wants to believe that spamming the most of one or two particular units is the best build but, as you know from experience when you meet an army that has the tools to handle the spammed unit you are in trouble. vanguard vets are like most elites, they are very killy but pricey. You do not smash a hammer into another hammer, you hit the targets that you know they will handle. Suchs as you stated a blob, gorkanaut and your hq sounds tooled enough to kill a warboss.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

I believe that all armies can be competitive, however some have more options in this field, and some have better options...
This are the armies typically called OP and power gamed... People focus on the more powerful options in their own right.
I've heard grav centurions called OP and must takes because the rape all riptides... Well their a problem of your net listing 3 riptides... Maybe if you had taken some hammerheads, or foie warriors, or knew the game better than dropping pie plates they wouldn't be so much of a problem?
Just because an particular unit is the scissors to your paper... Doesn't make it OP, it just makes it good in that scenario...
If you take a list of all paper... Expect scissors to turn up... If ou have a list of rock, paper and scissors... When scissors turns up... You've got rock ready to go!

Plus I tend to find that combination armies look cooler, are funnier to play and fluffier... No one deploys 3 riptides and no support... No grey knights gonna throw down their entire elite force without any back up... Their just asking to be picked off by a superior force!


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## kavyanshrike (Sep 10, 2011)

my DE was accused of being overpowered when they killed my opponents army taking no casualties, I managed to do this because I used my reavers (I think that's what their name is, the bikes anyway) to kill his HQ which he left in the open then he just gave up and advanced unit piecemeal which after deploying the webway gate my wyches destroyed them (he was a marine player with tactical squads and nothing else decent). He said my DE were overpowered and never played 40k again.

Also played as elder with 2 wraithlords a unit of dark reapers and two units of guardians and a farseer, won twelve straight games with this list ( even playing one guy twice) and if any of them would have targeted the guardians they would have annihilated them in two turns (most of the games were objectives).

Most armies aren't overpowered its just no-one has the patience to use tactics or learn them there is a weakness in almost every army, the reason why I have recently stopped playing 40k is that most people who I have played against recently just whine when you beat them and are insufferably annoying when they beat you.


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## Silens (Dec 26, 2010)

On the subject of OP armies, I had a friend who seemed to always choose an OP army. Eventually I caught on that he seemed to have terrible dyslexia because he quoted certain rules a little differently to how they were written and it always seemed to lean in his favour!

Like And They Shall Know No Fear! being a rule that Space Marines were effectively Fearless and his Shadow Dancers (Might have the unit wrong) in WHFB using the same dance turn after turn.


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## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr (Apr 3, 2012)

Silens said:


> Like And They Shall Know No Fear! being a rule that Space Marines were effectively Fearless and his Shadow Dancers (Might have the unit wrong) in WHFB using the same dance turn after turn.


and they shall know no fear used to be very similar to fearless, so i can see where your friend could have made the mistake on how they are played on that aspect.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

All armies are OP when they beat the opponent like a drum. Never mind tactics and strategy. Recently, I got my fairly successful anti-marine 'nid army wiped off the face of the planet by DE. They were NOT OP, or unfair. I knew when they showed up I wasn't likely to win, cause I had a MC heavy list to shred Marine armor and tac squads, and shoals of poison just don't make that a happy list. we enjoyed the game, and some bystanders said "That didn't seem fair" and I said "That's a hard matchup to play. Luck of the draw". I still don't have a good solution for 'nids against DE. They are just a hard army for bugs to deal with.


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## Terricus (Apr 7, 2014)

Yea high toughness, low model count armies struggle against the dark eldar. You are right though, this game is all about match ups and sooner or later everyone runs into their counter.


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## Silens (Dec 26, 2010)

The_Werewolf_Arngeirr said:


> and they shall know no fear used to be very similar to fearless, so i can see where your friend could have made the mistake on how they are played on that aspect.


Yeah, I know. Those were just two examples out of many. Any one of them looked like perhaps an innocent mistake. When you've got half a dozen of them for every codex, things start getting fishy. He was the sort of person to do it, too; he was also a big fan of the "Oh I thought that 2 was a 3" thing when rolling a large number of dice, but I never saw him leave behind a 3, thinking it was a 2.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Creon said:


> All armies are OP when they beat the opponent like a drum. Never mind tactics and strategy. Recently, I got my fairly successful anti-marine 'nid army wiped off the face of the planet by DE. They were NOT OP, or unfair. I knew when they showed up I wasn't likely to win, cause I had a MC heavy list to shred Marine armor and tac squads, and shoals of poison just don't make that a happy list. we enjoyed the game, and some bystanders said "That didn't seem fair" and I said "That's a hard matchup to play. Luck of the draw". I still don't have a good solution for 'nids against DE. They are just a hard army for bugs to deal with.


Skyblight Swarms. He can't kill everyone...

And Flyrants are *probably* the best anti-Dark Eldar thing in the game :victory:


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Given my experience, yes, he can kill everyone  Flyers might make a comeback, as I have three, including the flyrant, but we'll see if I see them again. Power armor is big in my meta.


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