# Empire Vs Bretonians - Help Needed



## melsaphim (Jan 1, 2010)

As part of a campaign i have just started, my empire army will be attempting to conquer bretonia ^.^ oh the joyous day that shall be had. I have arranged my army list and will be having my first battle soon. and herein lies the problem, it has been years since i have played a full and proper game of fantasy and never have i played with 8th ed rules properly.

For this battle i shall be using the list below and will be facing an unknown 'peasant' list of basic troops with a hero choice as part of a 'border guard' army to get things rolling.

My army will consist of handgunners (20), spearmen (20), knights (8) grandmaster w/ metoiric iron and ogre blade, cannon, witch hunter and pistolliers (5) - (i know the grand master is abit odd but it is needed in the campaign requirements and the witch hunter is there for army theme)

As i said i will be facing mostly peasants with a hero choice or two but nothing too major, my only real problem is that having not played a game with current rules nor having played a game in a few years properly im stuck as to what tactics work best now, what positions to take on deployment and such. any help in this regard will be much appreciated.

Liam


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## Hurons_Champion (Aug 7, 2011)

if i was you i'd ditch the Witch Hunter an pick up a battle wizard instead, magic is quiet strong so i'd play with it and see what works for you best.


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## Deathypoo (Jun 27, 2011)

The biggest changes for tactics in 8th edition comes from Close Combat and general bloodyness.

Step-up, steadfast, and supporting attacks combine to make knightly charges not so devastating. In general, charging and high initiative are mitigated in usefulness. The new rules also make close combat a much bloodier affair, with a lot more wounds caused both ways.

Everything else has gotten more powerful too, so get used to seeing troops die in much larger quantities than previous editions. As your army grows in the campaign, you'll probably want much bigger blocks of infantry to compensate.


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## melsaphim (Jan 1, 2010)

Hurons_Champion said:


> if i was you i'd ditch the Witch Hunter an pick up a battle wizard instead, magic is quiet strong so i'd play with it and see what works for you best.


Hey all, thanks for the advice. i had my first battle of the campaign the other day and went with a wizard with lore of life instead of the witch hunter. i must say the magic was useful in the long run.



Deathypoo said:


> The biggest changes for tactics in 8th edition comes from Close Combat and general bloodyness.
> 
> Step-up, steadfast, and supporting attacks combine to make knightly charges not so devastating. In general, charging and high initiative are mitigated in usefulness. The new rules also make close combat a much bloodier affair, with a lot more wounds caused both ways.
> 
> Everything else has gotten more powerful too, so get used to seeing troops die in much larger quantities than previous editions. As your army grows in the campaign, you'll probably want much bigger blocks of infantry to compensate.


I also upped my game to a 50man horde unit of spearmen supported by my gunline of cannon and handgunners with a general on griffon (love the model) and a unit of outriders in support. 

The battle went well, however the knights were a real problem until i managed to trap them in my horde unit of spears and flank charge them with the griffon and outriders. 

Any tips for dealing with brettonian cavalry would be greatly appreciated as i only face one unit in this fight with a damsel in the second rank and i know in the coming fights i will be running into more and more knight units with them getting more and more scary each time

Thanks in advance
Liam


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

The brett knights can be good if played well simply because of their ability to rank up three wide in lance formation and get a lot of attacks on the charge as wells as hide the damsel in the middle of the second rank and because they get the ward save blessing of the damsel. But they typically only have a 2+ armour save and core knights are S3 when not charging. Your knights are actually superior in that you get full plate armour for an armour save of 1+ and your inner circle knights get S4. Also, warrior priests allow you to re-roll to hit in the first round of combat. 

The key is to get the charge on their knights, preferably in the flank, and to have armour piercing on something. If you have a steadfast unit in the front and countercharge with a detachment into the flank you can break ranks and win on static combat resolution after the first round of combat. 

With lore of life, flesh to stone makes your units facing the knights very hard to wound and dwellers (limited range) can ravage a unit of knights if it gets off. 

Empire cannons and hell blaster volley guns with a dedicted engineer can wreak havoc on brett knights because of the number of ranks the cannon can shoot through and the number of S5 AP shots and hits that the HVBG will reliably get off with an engineer. 

The brett infantry is inferior, so the big threat is their lance formations, trebs, and peg knights (whcih can fly out on the flanks to kill your war machines).

In a full 2500 point battle, expect a lvl 4 damsel with lore of life ( a problem for you because the flesh to stone makes the knights rock hard, regrowth allows recovering lost knights, and dwellers can decimate your horde units) and often a lvl 2 damsel with beasts or heavens, three lance formations, two trebs perhaps with bowman behind stakes, and a unit of peg knights.


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## Arlex (Jul 2, 2012)

As a Bret player, I must say that you should defininetly leave Bretonnia alone. 

What olderplayer has said is entirely true and I will only supplement it slightly- 
-Watch your guns! Bretonnian players greatly dislike things that shoot, especially big things that shoot. I've seen one unit of pegasus knights kill the entire artillery side of a dwarf gun line) He WILL try to get at those squishy big guns and you need to make sure you deploy them to be protected 

-Tie down his knights! I think you got the jist of this in your first game. Now you REALLY have to make it work. Bretonnians biggest damage dealer is the lance. Charge it, or barring that, get a nice fat infatry unit to absorb the charge. A steadfast horde can eat a knights charge with fair ease and then leave you open to counter attack. 

-Fear Grail Knights. Seriously. His best unit and it's a nasty one. I've seen Grail Knight LITERALLY run down a 50 man horde unit with the charge, and then later that game grind down a 30ish (remaining) unit after being charged. They are UBER and with the right banner a big problem. Solution. Guns. Shoot them. A lot. Have an expendable unit eat the charge, and position so that he overruns in a dangerous direction. 

-Magic. A good bret player is going to love his casters and hate yours. I know I, personally, go as anti-mage as humanly possible with my lvl 4. I want to make sure at least one of your wizards keels over dead. Watch out for that. 

-Trebs. They hurt. Kill them. Kill them quickly. Or they will kill you. 

Good luck and...I can;t believe I'm going to say this, happy Bret hunting!


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