# Death of Horus/End of the Horus Heresy



## weasly (Jun 18, 2008)

Does anyone agree with the this view, its something I came up with:

At the end of the siege of Terra, Horus made his only mistake by lowering his defence shields and allowing the Emperor to board his ship and kill him. Its surmised that he did this to better see the destruction of the Imperium. I thought it may be because of a different reason.

Before lowering the shields Horus somehow comes to the realisation, maybe through some sort of vision, that if he wins the war then eventually he will destroy himself and Chaos with it (read the HH book "Legion" for more details). So as a final act of spite he lets the Emperor kill him to allow Chaos to rule the world thousands of years in the future. While it seemed like he had a small shred of humanity left he let his guard down and the Emperor killed him, while actually he did this on purpose to let the Emperor kill him, which makes sense since Horus was a master of diplomacy and hiding his true feelings. 

On another note I've heard that to finish the HH series of books, they may make up to 9 (9!!!!) books to describe the siege of Terra.

Anyone think this is interesting or maybe agree. Post dammit Post!


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

i dunno about Horus being THAT tricky. i dont really agree with it though. i always heard the DA and SW were closing on the system and he was running out of time, so he lowered his shields to allow the Emp on board so he could kill him in one on one combat. im pretty sure he wouldnt have known what happened between the AL and Cabal, and therefore couldnt have known what he would have done afterwards. sounds kinda silly i know, but in the HH books he constantly goes about _he_ should rule the imperium and not the Emp. wouldnt make much sense to let yourself get killed if you want to rule the galaxy.


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## Sinjordan (Jan 12, 2009)

In the last of the 'Visions of..' books it says that Horus asked for the Emperor's forgiveness.
Like revenant13 said, he was backed into a corner, but I also think he needed to prove to himself that he could beat the Emperor.


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

the reason he lowered his shields is a two part equation. the first is that the ultramarines, dark angels and space wolves were on their way to terra and the siege was progressing fast enough for terra to be taken before those legions got there. this led up to his decision to use his most loved tactic of severing the enemy's head, it is said he used to do this all the time, by killing the emperor the imperium would flop around like a chicken with its head cut off and be easy picking for the chaos legions. but he made a booboo and the emp killed him.


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## Micklez (Nov 22, 2008)

I think this is the standard rule, although with all the wispering of the DA spotty alegance going around i for one cant be sure. The theory about removing the head seems pretty consistent with all the fluff that ive read, although im only half way through the HH series. Maybe Horus just wanted that last little victory?


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

hello chaos!!! yes. finally i understand why the chaos legions in the heresy actually joined the chaos the way they did. Its all really understandable. The legions that are still loyal to the emperor could have very much joined chaos like the current traitor legions did. Look at all the stupid reasons why the legions joined chaos

Thousand Sons- Emperor got mad at for using magic even though they tried protecting him
Iron Warriors- unapreciated between the rivalry with the imperial fists. long term wasted sieges.
Alpha- To make sure their was a chaos to fight. if you read Legion ul understand
Night Lords- the primarchs ability to read the future very much like alpha legion and understand what needed to be done.

well.... haha their are a few il never understand. but yah omg dark angels almost did. Im not even talking about the fallen! If you read the last book it is stated that The great Lion actually did not fight in the palace because he wanted to see which of the sides would win. Wow!


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

By the way go Iron Warriors. Destruction to the Imperial Fists!!!!


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Lets us see
World Eaters- when the primarch was taken kind of kidnapped while he was trying to escape with his fellow gladiators, his fellow comrades were left to die.
Emperor's Children-Fulgrim got possessed when he took that alienonic weapon. who the heck knew it had a daemon in it?

I know im missing the unknown legion, death gaurd, and word bearers 

but the word bearers primarch basically just put a fit so i dont really feel bad for him.


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## Sinjordan (Jan 12, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> hello chaos!!! yes. finally i understand why the chaos legions in the heresy actually joined the chaos the way they did. Its all really understandable. The legions that are still loyal to the emperor could have very much joined chaos like the current traitor legions did. Look at all the stupid reasons why the legions joined chaos
> 
> Thousand Sons- Emperor got mad at for using magic even though they tried protecting him
> Iron Warriors- unapreciated between the rivalry with the imperial fists. long term wasted sieges.
> ...





ckcrawford said:


> Lets us see
> World Eaters- when the primarch was taken kind of kidnapped while he was trying to escape with his fellow gladiators, his fellow comrades were left to die.
> Emperor's Children-Fulgrim got possessed when he took that alienonic weapon. who the heck knew it had a daemon in it?
> 
> ...


Magnus The Red's spell that he used to warn the Emperor caused the protective seals the Emperor set up in the golden throne to be breached. Demons were able to pour through the webway. Damn right the Emperor would be pissed. 
Nighthaunter resented himself and in time came to resent the way the Empire was developing, believing it to be a corrupt hypocrisy. Plus he was chastised for his over the top methods of warfare. 
Angron I can understand, the planet he was on became compliant so the Emperor couldn't aid his war effort against the planet's overseers. 
Death Guard is a slight mystery to me, I put it down to Typhon/Typhus's scheming, personally. He was apparently a worshipper of chaos before being inducted into the legion, and steered them towards the Destroyer plague. Word Bearers need servitude under a higher being, they threw a tantrum when the Emperor told them off for religous extremism and Chaos came callin.....match made in heaven.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

k:
Thanks. Much apreciated! I didn't know that infact the thousand sons were bastards the way they were. Because in the heresy books it at least looked as though Magnus tried to help horus overcome chaos.:ireful2:
I give that man or woman two thumbs way way up for the info though!:good::good:


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

Horus knew that the Dark Angels and Space Wolves were on the way. Up to that point that battle was in Horus' favour but if he did not end it before the two legions arrived he would be facing a powerful fleet attacking from behind his forces which would have cost him the war.
Horus made sure that any signals announcing the approach of the fleet would be blocked. If the Emperor knew that reinforcements were on the way he could simply hold his ground for their arrival.

By blocking the signal and lowering his shield he offered the loyalists one chance to take out Horus (even though they must have considered the probability of a trap).

Horus made a tactical gamble, if he had waited he would have lost anyway (especially if the reinforcements held them up long enough for other legions to get to Terra). He lost his gamble. 

When fighting Horus the Emperor could still not bring himself to use the full extent of his powers against his favourite son. Only at the very end when he finally realised the he could not save Horus did he attack him with all his psychic power. The attack was so powerful that the Daemonic powers within Horus left him the chaos gods withdrew from Horus so as not to be hurt by the attack (yes the Emperor is that hard!).

As the chaos gods receeded from Horus clarity returns and he realises what he has done (some versions of the tale say he asked for forgiveness). The Emperor knew that he could not save Horus now and so destroyed him utterly (and Horus' soul in the warp).


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Thats very interesting... but... the question is (with the dark angels) is did The great lion really try to get to Tera? The siege lasted quite a while, and i do believe Caliban is pretty close to Tera. Or was he waiting.....uke


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## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

either way horus woulda lost since the other legions were coming and he couldnt have done a siege forever so he thought *wrong* that he could even think of beating the emperor so so sad


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## NurglingStomper (Jan 31, 2009)

So the word bearers worship the Emperor and they are called useless.
Now everybody worships the Emperor and it's called LAW.
Thousand Sons use magic it's called treachery
Inquisition and SM use it it's called battling the enemy... hmm sounds like hypocrisy.


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

NurglingStomper said:


> So the word bearers worship the Emperor and they are called useless.
> Now everybody worships the Emperor and it's called LAW.
> Thousand Sons use magic it's called treachery
> Inquisition and SM use it it's called battling the enemy... hmm sounds like hypocrisy.


The Emperor didn't ban the use of psychic powers just sorcery (there is a diiference between the two). 
As for the difference in approach between the Imperium run by the Emperor and the Imperium run by the High Lords of Terra you are absolutely right. It's one of the tragic things that changed when the Emperor was put on the golden throne. The Emperor was committed to ridding the human race of suspicion and worship and yet the Imperium became riddled with both. It is possible that the Emperor allowed this to happen as, without being able to leave his lifesupport machine and with no Primarchs around to act as avatars of his rule, he may have seen religion as a necessary evil to unite the Imperium.

We will probably never know.


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## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

well the lords of terra over time began to worship the emperor not just right away


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## weasly (Jun 18, 2008)

"The attack was so powerful that the Daemonic powers within Horus left him the chaos gods withdrew from Horus so as not to be hurt by the attack (yes the Emperor is that hard!)."* (made a mistake)*

Heres an idea, most likely wrong though. The Emperor knew of Chaos from the start, and set up the whole of the Imperium and the Horus Heresy so that when he fought Horus he could destroy the Chaos Gods themselves through Horus.


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

A couple of months ago I might have said that the even the Emperor couldn't have planned so far ahead but after his trick with the Dragon in "Mechanicus" it's a possibility.


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## anarchyfever (May 24, 2008)

so was the Emperor working on the golden throne that whole time in his underground bunker


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## Angel of Retribution (Jul 10, 2008)

The Emperor only reluctantly killed Horus, and did so after the Chaos Gods had left his body so that they could not reclaim his corpse he obliterated everything that was Horus, soul and all! But i don't think Horus could see the future, he just knew if the DA, SW and UM arrived at Terra his forces would be caught in the middle and the seige would be over. He lowered the shields of his Barge to lure the Emperor on board and kill him cos if the Emperor dies, humanity would die with him. He was the shining star that united the human cause. If he died the blow that would resonate from his death would shatter the hope and fighting spirit of the whole Imperium and Chaos would rule supreme. 

By being on the Golden Throne, the Emperor is still an icon for his people and will continue to be so for as long as the Golden Throne survives. But i'm pretty sure if the Emperor ever returned he'd be pissed with the way his Empire was turned into the very thing he had strived for millenia to abolish...or maybe not...will we ever find out, who knows...


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

His job was to defeat the Imperium, while he died in the process he sent the Imperium into 10000 years of contant war, where the Imperium is slowly getting closer to it's own destruction. The Emperor was defeated, The Primarchs have been defeated, The legions have been defeated, and the Imperium is left being run by power hungry dictators, with no allies, losing territory all the time, with the chapters falling to chaos on a regular basis, Cadia is closer to it's destruction than ever before, and the Golden Throne is damaged and can't be fixed. With all that I don't see Horus as failing, and since the fighting has not stopped since the Heresy, for all intents and purposes it still continues now. Directly because of Horus the Imperium is dieing, on the verge of the Emperor's total victory he was defeated, the Chaos Gods are more powerful than ever, the the Imperium is up to it's neck in shit. At this point even if the Emperor was to return to Imperium would still struggle to survive. You say he failed, I say he succeeded but not how he thought he would. Horus has died but the Heresy continues.

P.S- can you tell I like the CSM


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## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

horus mission was to kill the emperor and he succeed

hes in the golden throne and is slowly becoming nothing


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## War$m!7H (Jun 20, 2008)

we all know the Emperor is just taking a very long battle nap *wink wink*

:grin:


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I bet hes taken a long ass shit in his golden toilet. Its still gonna be a while.


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

Horus wanted to rule the imperium, not defeat it.

and since the Emp is technically not dead, Horus failed.


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

Horus wanted to rule, the Chaos Gods aren't bothered either way. And Horus got a nice clean death, whereas if someone has to attack the Emperor, for all his brilliant he would not even be able to protect himself from a single humble traitor marine, he is practically dead, he can't move all he does is still there, probably hating life, thinking back going I should have killed Horus earlier in the battle, you can hardly call that a victory.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

you know what the emperor is thinken.... "God damn! I picked the wrong children to be at my side. My left over children are fricken morons! Guilleman! Why the @#$% did you make all the legions smaller? Dumb Ass!" Why don't we just make ourselves even more weaker!"


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## weasly (Jun 18, 2008)

Zondarian said:


> whereas if someone has to attack the Emperor, for all his brilliant he would not even be able to protect himself from a single humble traitor marine, he is practically dead


TBH in the book Descent of Angels when that guy meets the Emperor he is so awed he cant look and him and has to shield his eyes against the light coming from the Emperor. If a traitor marine met him he would probably ask himself what had become of himself and would repent immediately. Plus the Emperor still has awesome psychic powers (the astronomican).


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

weasly said:


> TBH in the book Descent of Angels when that guy meets the Emperor he is so awed he cant look and him and has to shield his eyes against the light coming from the Emperor. If a traitor marine met him he would probably ask himself what had become of himself and would repent immediately. Plus the Emperor still has awesome psychic powers (the astronomican).


yah but now the emperor kind of looks like crap now. His body is broken. He has tubes all over himself. He probably doesn't exercise. So hes probably fat as hell. I mean you could be right. But the taint of chaos is so strong that traitor marines are really basically doomed.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Yo I don't think i clarified that well. Its kind of when you meet a really hot girl. And you think shes the most beautiful thing you have ever seen. You hang out with her long enough and soon all you thought about her was wrong. she isn't the most beautiful thing you have seen or perhaps beauty isn't everything so you just don't think about the girl the same. Its kind of like Chaos Marines. At first they thought the emperor was all that. Like what a divine being! But slowly they realized he wasn't and that even though he wasn't really a liar. He wasn't "true."


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## Epic Fail (Jun 23, 2008)

I don't think that Horus got what he wanted (unless it was a blazing sword to the guts and a psychic blast to oblivion). The chaos gods on the other hand, got exactly what they wanted - 10,000 years and counting of endless war and bloodshed. Neither the Emperor or Horus won that battle

Is the emperor really alive or is he just a gigantic duracell now?


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## War$m!7H (Jun 20, 2008)

still seems like hes taking an extra long battle nap


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Epic Fail said:


> Is the emperor really alive or is he just a gigantic duracell now?


hahaha pretty much man. He's whimpering to himself..." I hate Horus. What and asshole. I hate Guilleman for making all the legions weaker. Why are my loyal sons sooooo stupid?":ireful2:


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## Angel of Retribution (Jul 10, 2008)

The Emperor is still what he needs to be...a beacon of hope to his people. And to be honest i don't think he will die (or if he does is instantly reborn) because i don't think all the shamans would have self sacrificed to make him if they knew he could be defeated so cheaply. The Emperor lived for so long and is so powerful (as to make all four chaos gods cower with just a thought) that he could perish so pathetically, that would be cheating the masses. And the emperor could see the future...he knew he was gonna sit in the Golden Throne for a long time, he wouldn't have chose that route if he knew the Imperium would fall before his return.

Maybe the fact that the Golden Throne is failing is actually because the Emperor is regaining his strength and is about to return...


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Hate to say it, but the Emperor is anything but infallible, if he could see the future then he wouldn't have bothered with the whole Father and Son thing where Horus was concerned, nor would have come to Mortarion's aid on that mountaintop, or rescued Angron from being imminiently slaughtered, and... well you get the idea.

In addition he's a dessicated husk kept alive by a chair which from the blurb surrounding the 5th edition is slowly conking out.

As to Guilleman being stupid, well that's the $64'000 question that gets you the beach trip and the supermodel.


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## Angel of Retribution (Jul 10, 2008)

All paths lead somewhere and everything happens for a reason...maybe the Emperor saw all this but couldn't change it for fear of creating something worse...hell i don't know, i just know that after the immense fight he sits on the Golden Throne for however long and then just dies...what a rip-off!!! That's a lame way to end it better to go out in a blaze of glory than fade out into nothing!


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## Fumble Tumble (Oct 3, 2008)

ok this conversation is just random

but i think he's dead beyond reasoning with no chance of survival unless he's cool and can make miracles happen


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## whatwhat (Oct 7, 2008)

weasly said:


> Does anyone agree with the this view, its something I came up with:
> 
> At the end of the siege of Terra, Horus made his only mistake by lowering his defence shields and allowing the Emperor to board his ship and kill him. Its surmised that he did this to better see the destruction of the Imperium. I thought it may be because of a different reason.
> 
> ...


Black library HH series spoiler bellow, highlight to read it.


Ok, heres a theory going round on a small scale amongst those who have read the horus heresy novels. In galaxy of flames Aximand is described to have shown guilt upon killing Torgaddon and Loken with Abbaddon, in fact throughout all of the series he featured in he always was a little wary of the Luna Wolves/Horus' betrayal of the Emperor. So to get to the point, it has been suggested that in order to upkeep the portrayal of horus' as an equaled tactician, as he has been portrayed in the series so far, the novel which will cover the fight on Terra will not have him lowering the shields and instead will have Little Horus Aximand, the only remnant of loyalty left amongst the traitor legions at the end of galaxy in flames, lowering them in an act of redemption.

Just throwing that out there. Whichever the reason I hope they don't stick with "Horus did it to better see the destruction of the Imperium." As I find that totally anticlimactic and flawed.


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

whatwhat said:


> Black library HH series spoiler bellow, highlight to read it.
> 
> 
> Ok, heres a theory going round on a small scale amongst those who have read the horus heresy novels. In galaxy of flames Aximand is described to have shown guilt upon killing Torgaddon and Loken with Abbaddon, in fact throughout all of the series he featured in he always was a little wary of the Luna Wolves/Horus' betrayal of the Emperor. So to get to the point, it has been suggested that in order to upkeep the portrayal of horus' as an equaled tactician, as he has been portrayed in the series so far, the novel which will cover the fight on Terra will not have him lowering the shields and instead will have Little Horus Aximand, the only remnant of loyalty left amongst the traitor legions at the end of galaxy in flames, lowering them in an act of redemption.
> ...


I am currently reading the HH series, I'm upto Fulgrim and I came to the same conclusion myself.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

"Ok, heres a theory going round on a small scale amongst those who have read the horus heresy novels. In galaxy of flames Aximand is described to have shown guilt upon killing Torgaddon and Loken with Abbaddon, in fact throughout all of the series he featured in he always was a little wary of the Luna Wolves/Horus' betrayal of the Emperor. So to get to the point, it has been suggested that in order to upkeep the portrayal of horus' as an equaled tactician, as he has been portrayed in the series so far, the novel which will cover the fight on Terra will not have him lowering the shields and instead will have Little Horus Aximand, the only remnant of loyalty left amongst the traitor legions at the end of galaxy in flames, lowering them in an act of "

you can't prove Loken died.... lol... thatd be cool if hes still alive or something. Him and the other loyalists. Cause arn't there rumours of one of the Dreadnoughts finding a tunnel and getting the surviving loyalists in it?


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

only Raylnor (EC dread) got to that underground hangar. Tarvitz told him to guard something. its unclear what it was though, what with the building caving in on them and all. and even if loken didnt receive a killing blow from abaddon hed have bled white from his wounds.

i REALLY like that aximond theory though. i never thought about that.


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## War$m!7H (Jun 20, 2008)

Loken was cool, but i was sad to see Torgaddon go =( he was leet :biggrin:


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

I like that little Horus theory. That would work for me.

And here is the ultimate in conspiracy theory: The Emperor wanted Chaos to rule the galaxy and created the conditions for it to flourish...
Thats why he sat around and did nothing while Horus went on the rampage.....


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## scolatae (Aug 25, 2008)

If thats true then why did he bother with the whole no religion thing and just worship chaos from the off?:dunno:


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

i like the idea of little horus. makes more sense and i can actually see him doing that. After all he was supposed to be watched after he killed torgaddon. i had thought about that before but didnt think GW had the brain power to think of something like that (they can be a little dumb). as for rylanor surviving in that tunnel, im pretty sure if he got any loyalists in there it was very very few, as in about a squad of Emperor's Children a squad of Luna Wolves and even less World Eaters if any. im pretty sure they still wouldnt be down there and when/if they were found they were immediately brought to terraand made into some kind of special unit. idk just my two cents.


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