# Astartes vs. Space Marine



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Hey everyone.

Just a simple poll.

Its common knowledge that Black Library is trying to distance itself from the whole 'Space Marines' side of things and use the more grown up 'Astartes'. 

So I'm wondering have any of you made the jump and now refuse to use 'Space Marine' as well?

I personally don't mind people using Space Marines in casual settings, but cringe when proper fluff discussions use the term liberally.

Although I am guilty of alternating back and forth, as in a way its like trying to quit an addiction lol.

So what are your opinions?


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

I just say the dudes who are gunna screw your daemons over :wink:
To everyone else - the Unforgiven


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I really don't give a shit. I'll use whatever version I want at any time.


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

Whenever I meet an Astartes/ Space Marine, I usually address him as... SIR!


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## Dogbeard (Apr 15, 2011)

D-A-C said:


> Its common knowledge that Black Library is trying to distance itself from the whole 'Space Marines' side of things and use the more grown up 'Astartes'.


Someone should have told BL this before they released _Victories of the Space Marines_ last month. :wink:


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

I bet everyone just chooses the third option because it has a dirty word in it, and people assume apathy is cool.

Well when we have manipulated the lanaguge to the point you cannot express yourself anymore, you won't be laughing, because we will have abolished it ... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!

Everyone who is cool, knows that real men use Astartes.


You tell a chick you play with Space Marines and you wont get any.

You tell a chick you play with Astartes and she'll be puzzled just long enough for you to slip something into her drink and you'll be getting some all night long (depending on the strength of course).

Lol.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

:goodpost: Tips on "Gettin' Some" from Heresy Online.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

BlackGuard said:


> :goodpost: Tips on "Gettin' Some" from Heresy Online.


I just Knock em Out with my fist. Space Marine, Astartes, doesnt matter, the KO still coming.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

SPEHHSSS MUHREEENNNNZZZZ! otherwise known as Matt Ward's Warriors or the MWW for short.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Dogbeard said:


> Someone should have told BL this before they released _Victories of the Space Marines_ last month. :wink:


In this vein: Actually, Jim Swallow recently said that he had recieved orders from on high in BL to start shifting away from "Astartes" and more towards "Space Marines." Whether this is a BL marketing choice or a GW dictate is uncertain, but I did hear it.

Sorry, no link--I'm fairly certain it was in the BL Bolthole forum's "shoutbox" (AKA chatroom).

That said, I do prefer Astartes, definitely.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

D-A-C said:


> Its common knowledge that Black Library is trying to distance itself from the whole 'Space Marines' side of things and use the more grown up 'Astartes'.


_Space Marine Battles _series, _...of the Space Marines_ series, anyone?

I have never heard anyone call them anything other than space marines. Anybody who calls them astartes in normal conversation is, IMO, a pretentious dick.

What I have found while reading BL novels is not that they are moving away from calling them space marines. Actually quite the opposite, see above. What they do seem to be doing though, is use Astartes a lot more in the HH novels, and Space marine in the 40k novels.


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## Zakath (Feb 23, 2011)

In written fluff its nice to see some Space Marine - Astartes variation (and I do think that Astartes sounds more assuring). In casual conversation, though, everyone here calls them Mareens.



> What I have found while reading BL novels is not that they are moving away from calling them space marines. Actually quite the opposite, see above. What they do seem to be doing though, is use Astartes a lot more in the HH novels, and Space marine in the 40k novels.


Same here. Might be an effort to make a division between 30k and 40k characters and speech. Might not.


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

Considering that I play orks and refuse to play marines or "astartes" (which are technically the same thing) only when they do Bob Dole Marines will I ever bother to play either.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

Meh don't care either way, i see the Astartes as being a more formal way of saying space marines, used by the upper echelons....inquisitors and high commanders and the such. And space marine to be more of a dog soldier choice. 

TBH if i'm ever writing about the Astartes i switch between the two, having multiple words that mean the same thing is a great advantage for a writer.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

I think the terms are still entirely interchangeable.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

I agree with _unxpekted22_. Although, I prefer to use astartes where needed.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

I actually refer to them as "Salamanders" and as I'm the only SM player in my group that's what my friends refer to them as. 

I've thought about it and I used to use Astartes, but switched to Space Marines to conform with the common usage in the FLGS and elsewhere.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I use Astartes more than Spae Marines, though it sounds cool it also have the whole "Its the 80s so we just put space in front of every cool thing then we have a sci-fi universe". I notice though when Im currently writing about Chaos Space Marines, it hard to name the "models" like Noise- and Plague Marines as Noise- and Plague Astartes instead, doesnt sound right.

Also Chaos Astartes? No good ring to it.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Space Marines are Astartes. They were always referred to as the Legionaires Astartes/Space Marines way back in RT. Astartes seems to be the new term, since loads of people use it.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

I prefer Astartes, but its not really a big difference.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

In the written word, I use astartes. But in conversations and simple discussions like this it is easier to just say marines.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

forkmaster said:


> I use Astartes more than Spae Marines, though it sounds cool it also have the whole "Its the 80s so we just put space in front of every cool thing then we have a sci-fi universe". I notice though when Im currently writing about Chaos Space Marines, it hard to name the "models" like Noise- and Plague Marines as Noise- and Plague Astartes instead, doesnt sound right.


Agreed but then i guess that could be because that's actually a name it would be like trying to call the A team, the A unit. the words are interchangable but when given as a specific name they're kinda locked. SM and Astartes is only interchangable because they've been introduced as both. 



> Also Chaos Astartes? No good ring to it.


I've got no problem with using Chaos Astartes or traitor Astartes. I guess i'm using the chaos/traitor section as a descriptor rather than a name.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

forkmaster said:


> Also Chaos Astartes? No good ring to it.


Traitor Astartes, on the other hand...


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

meh, their all loyalist scum to me...


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

It all depends on the context of the usage.

When it's an educated, highly-placed member of the Imperium, I prefer that they use Astartes, Adeptus Astartes, etc. When it's a grunt Guard trooper or a hive-dweller, I think it's more apropos that they use Space Marine--even if they know (via the mandatory Ecclesiarchy broadcasts) that Astartes is the proper term.

The Heresy novels have already indicated that "Space Marine" began as slang among the common people, anyways, and that its usage coincided with the Astartes beginning the Great Crusade in space.

I would rather that actual Space Marines do not refer to themselves as such, because the term is rather pedestrian. Also, their brainwashing and indoctrination, which focuses on their Chapter's past isn't likely to have steered them to such verbiage. All the same, it's obvious that this happens, since tons of 40k-era Astartes, to include high-ranking ones, use "Space Marine".

Cheers,
P.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Karak The Unfaithful said:


> meh, their all loyalist scum to me...


What about Chaos Marines? They're not loyalists.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

D-A-C said:


> Its common knowledge that Black Library is trying to distance itself from the whole 'Space Marines' side of things and use the more grown up 'Astartes'.


Actually, the opposite is true. While there was a run of many authors (myself included) using Astartes in prose, the new GW mandate is actually that it's incorrect. The rule is now to use Adeptus Astartes/Marine/Space Marine/etc. instead of ever using Astartes as a noun. 

I believe the official translation from High Gothic is now considered to be "of the stars", making them the Adepts of the Stars.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Honestly, I don't even know how Astartes is meant to be pronouned, like ass-tarts? 

And now I don't even want to think about it..


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> Honestly, I don't even know how Astartes is meant to be pronouned, like ass-tarts?
> 
> And now I don't even want to think about it..


Legend has it that Americans pronouncing it like that was one of the reasons for the change.


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## Dogbeard (Apr 15, 2011)

Even Roboute Guilliman frequently refers to them as Space Marines in excerpts from the Codex Astartes.

I presume the actual origin of the name is Astarte, the Greek name for a Semetic fertility and warrior goddess worshipped under various guises throughout the Eastern Mediterranean and Carthage in antiquity.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Actually, the opposite is true. While there was a run of many authors (myself included) using Astartes in prose, the new GW mandate is actually that it's incorrect. The rule is now to use Adeptus Astartes/Marine/Space Marine/etc. instead of ever using Astartes as a noun.
> 
> I believe the official translation from High Gothic is now considered to be "of the stars", making them the Adepts of the Stars.


Really?

Was it ever BL policy to make the switch to Astartes? Cause I could of sworn I saw a youtube vid with one of the authors explaining that ... or maybe he was just saying that was what he personally preferred.

Personally I like the idea that has arisen as a result of the discussion of this thread.

I think the common people of the 40k universe, the majority of whom never actually see an Astartes (or Adeptus Astartes) would refer to them as Space Marines.

Whereas they themselves, and those of the Imperial High Commands would use the term Astartes.

I think that shows the way slang kind of develops in real life.

What that technically means is that us regular folk in regular conversation should use the term Space Marines.

Although the idea of calling them Matt Ward's Warriors has my wholehearted support as well lol.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

D-A-C said:


> Really?
> 
> Was it ever BL policy to make the switch to Astartes?


Nope. Some authors just preferred it.



D-A-C said:


> Cause I could of sworn I saw a youtube vid with one of the authors explaining that ... or maybe he was just saying that was what he personally preferred.


I said it online a few times before the mandate came through. I can't speak for the others.


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## Dogbeard (Apr 15, 2011)

"A Space Marine needs not joy, nor glory. Service to the Emperor shall be his wine and sustenance, and his soul shall be content." - Codex Astartes

"We will always be Space Marines, my friend." - Uriel Ventris

"I am as you are, a Space Marine and servant of the Emperor and Lord Sanguinius." - Arkio the Blessed 

"I'm a Space Marine!" - Justicar Alaric

"We are the Spess Mahreens! We are the Emperor's fury!" - Indrick Boreale


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

I prefer Astartes, Space Marine reminds me too much of GI Joe and sounds too gung ho/F*** YEAH!! *sprays room with gunfire* 

In my opinion, it reduces them to grunts/simpletons and just dosen't click with all the complex fantasy-oriented lore behind them. Chaos powers seeking to corrupt _Space Marines_? Meh.

I think another reason for BL pushing for Space Marine is due to all the toys, games, etc. that have already been released with the word stamped on it and not to confuse the younger crowds from getting into the series.


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## Fire Lord (Feb 15, 2009)

I like and use both. No biggie. I just don't use astartes around people who don't understand what one is. You say space marine, people understand alot faster.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> Honestly, I don't even know how Astartes is meant to be pronouned, like ass-tarts?
> 
> And now I don't even want to think about it..


_Ah-star-tees_



Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Legend has it that Americans pronouncing it like that was one of the reasons for the change.


Bloody yanks. :laugh:

Personally I much prefer the term _"Astartes"_. _"Space Marines"_ just sounds too cliche, cheesy, and in my opinion doesn't go far enough to put forward the full extent of the power, prestige and importance of the Chapters/Legions.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I remember I had a thread about which legion/chapter sounded the stupidest or which would I prefer to have changed. I said Space Wolves.

In this context I really think the word "space" in front of a elite military force sounds retarded. I guess if you use the term a lot you don't really think about it. But if you actually do, it just sounds like a bunch of astronauts with laser guns in space with glass helmets, floating around. 

It's almost as redicolous as the final battle in James Bond's _Moonraker_


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Legend has it that Americans pronouncing it like that was one of the reasons for the change.


It is more As-tar-tees...... never heard anyone say ass-tartes.


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

I refer to them as both. Depends on my mood.


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## Epidemius (Nov 15, 2010)

I use both often.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I think Space Marines is probably better in the long run, it can be recognised a lot easier for the wider general public which is important when you consider things like the computer games and even the upcoming movie.


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## Abomination (Jul 6, 2008)

I prefer the term 'Astartes' myself but I'm not bothered. I just wish not so many people played Space Marines so we could get some variety on the tabletops.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Prefer Astartes myself, like others have said, Space Marines just sounds a bit too cheesy and shit.

On the pronounciation, i know that its Ah-star-tees, but for some reason i cannot get out of the habit of saying it Ah-star-tays.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I should make myself clear, I like both names and I think Astartes feels a lot more formal and "mature" but Space Marines is a much easier term to generate interest with amongst casual fans and the general public which is why I went with that.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Listen to The Dark King and you'll hear how it is pronounced pretty clear.  And Traitor Astartes does sound much better as someone said on page 2-3. ^^


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm glad to see this topic has actually provoked some decent discussion. 

The poll actually seems to be doing pretty well; plenty of votes coming in.


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## SaintTom (Nov 26, 2010)

I personally prefer to call them Astartes, but I do usually just say Space marines when talking casually. Though when I do say Astartes, I pronounce it without the second "T", a bad habit i picked up from somewhere. :dunno:


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> It is more As-tar-tees...... never heard anyone say ass-tartes.


I know how it's pronounced, you strange person.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> I remember I had a thread about which legion/chapter sounded the stupidest or which would I prefer to have changed. I said Space Wolves.


What would you have called them? The Rout? Or the Vlka Fenryka?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> _Ah-star-tees_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's exactly how I pronounce it- in my head as well as outloud- plus similar reason as to why I prefer the name Adeptus Astartes to Space Marines.


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## Angelis Mortis (Mar 7, 2011)

in my background and short story that im working on i call them astartes for that was the emperors name for them k:
but wen im at my local GW i call them marines as the majority of players are ten to fourteen


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> I know how it's pronounced, you strange person.


Well, I should certainly hope that you do. :laugh: I was merely attempting to point out we can pronounce some thing right, despite what some brits think.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

gen.ahab said:


> I was merely attempting to point out we can pronounce something right, despite what some Brits think.


I would humbly beseech you to contemplate how many times the letter 'i' appears in the word 'aluminium' 


On the original subject - from _Prospero Burns_, at the bottom of page 39:

'Hawser wondered what Legion the Warrior belonged to. He couldn't see any insignia properly. What was it that people were calling them these days, now that the bulk of all Astartes forces had deployed off Terra to spearhead the Great Crusade? 

_Space Marines_. That was it. Space Marines. Like the square-jawed heroes of ha'penny picture books.'

I love that little section - it really leapt out at me the first time I read the book, in fact, for this very reason - since it gives both ways of referring to the power-armoured buggers a grounding in the speech and perception of the people of the time, and manages to differentiate between and validate both at the same time.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Svartmetall said:


> I would humbly beseech you to contemplate how many times the letter 'i' appears in the word 'aluminium'


I would also like to stress this. 

Al - Loo - Min - Ee - Um :biggrin:


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Well, I should certainly hope that you do. :laugh: I was merely attempting to point out we can pronounce some thing right, despite what some brits think.


Actually, joking aside, 10 years of writing in various mediums has made my default habit to speak in English, and write in American English, finding those spellings a little more elegant. S'weird.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Svartmetall said:


> I would humbly beseech you to contemplate how many times the letter 'i' appears in the word 'aluminium' .


A-lu-min-im. Always pronounced it as such and will continue to do so. So


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> A-lu-min-im. Always pronounced it as such and will continue to do so. So


By St George's Cross don't you mean to say: Alu-mini-um


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Alum-ini-um?


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Seconded! Great line in a great story.



Svartmetall said:


> On the original subject - from _Prospero Burns_, at the bottom of page 39:
> 
> 'Hawser wondered what Legion the Warrior belonged to. He couldn't see any insignia properly. What was it that people were calling them these days, now that the bulk of all Astartes forces had deployed off Terra to spearhead the Great Crusade?
> 
> ...


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

When it comes down to it i actually use the term loyalist or traitor waaayyy more than either astartes or spacca mahreen.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

According to Audio Books its "As' Tart'Es" to Pronounce....so im going with who gives a shit! Ether way there super humans with giant guns.


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

Does it really matter? I mean: they're both the *same thing*(hint hint) with two different names! Meaning you can call them what you like, the title should be changed to something along the lines of: "Astartes *or* space marine"


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

The Question is, if you played that army, and somebody asked you what you played, how would you reply?

If you said "astartes" with a straight face, I'd probably back away slowly.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Wow, if that counts as conceding a match, you might be in trouble. :wink:


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