# Breakdown of daemons



## englhockey (Mar 19, 2009)

Ok there are tons of posts about deamons but what i want to know is whats a must have in your list all the time?
what units work best with other units int he codex
and what works best against other armies like whats best vs imperial guard or whats best vs ork


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## terminatormonkey (May 6, 2009)

ok lets start over shall we

HQ
Bloodthirster. hard to hit in CC, hes a MC so anti tank tough to shoot with small arms fire. good saves
Keeper of secrets. lots of attacks, always goes first. MC, will eat both armys infantry pretty well
unclean ones. harder than hell to kill. feel no pain. MC slow. good first rounder
lord of change. good ranged, great save, not recomended unless you use fate weaver. MC


Troops
Blood letters. ok against orks and imp. prw swords and Furious charge but wouldnt recomend
Daemonettes. amazing against imp good for orks. fleet lets em get in.rending and good int. should run thro both armys basic infantry.
Plaguebearers. hard to kill, feel no pain. take a ton of fire for first coulple rounds <<< give an icon
pink horrors shoot the hell out of almost anything first turn, bad at assault. good save
nurglings. ok good to tie up heavy weapons teams hard to kill but more of a nusince for the enemy.

Fast attack
Fleshhounds. beast so 12" assault, furious charge, ok for killing most infantry
seekers of slaanesh. good amount of attacks and rending, chew through infantry. good int
screamers. melta bombs but not good at anything else, jetbikes tho
furies. jump infantry, 2 attacks, undecided. good for tieing up units tho

heavy support
soulgrinder, av 13 . BS and WS of 3.(could be a problem) anti everything good for killin ork boys and tanks and good blast weapon also
daemon prince can be equipeded to do almost anything<<< must have

elites
beasts of nurgle. hard to kill but not much else there
fiend of slaanesh. 12" charge, hit and run rending, good int, lot of attacks 2 wounds.
flamers jump infantry and good against infantry and tanks alike. glance tanks on 4+ with template gift
blodcrushers good armour hard to kill, furious charge ws 5 not recomended for ig and orks

for anti either i recomend
Keeper of secrets, blood thrister
plaguebeares with icon, deamonettes.
soul grinders and daemon princes
fiends of slaanesh and flamers

that is all in my oppinion and if i miised anything or someone provides a decent argument then i will change it. also if you want tactics for CSM, SM, eldar, nids i have played against them and have a decent idea of what works there also, just PM me or make a post and ill do my best to help.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

T monkey has made some good points, but I'd respectively like to counter a few of them 



> lord of change. good ranged, great save, not recomended unless you use fate weaver. MC


Nonsense  I'd prefer to have standard LOC, it can hold its self up better in assault if it needs to. Its a lot easier to leave on its own than Fateweaver. With Kairos you really want to surround him with as many thing that can make use of his ability as possible, narrowing your influence on different parts of the battlefield.



> Blood letters. ok against orks and imp. prw swords and Furious charge but wouldnt recomend
> Daemonettes. amazing against imp good for orks. fleet lets em get in.rending and good int. should run thro both armys basic infantry.


If used right, Bloodletters are incredible, they are effective against pretty much any unit, not just hordes (in fact I think they're a bit wasted on a large mob). Will tear a unit of marines to tatters. Though they are a bit fragile, definitely worth considering

Daemonettes are the only troops choice I advise you never take  _Incredibly_ soft unit, they'll take heavy casualties from any kind of shooting. I wouldn't recommend these unless you are ready for some trial and error.

Horrors are great at blasting hordes of GEQs to smithereens. Though you'll be disappointing at the lack of damaged caused to MEQ's with this unit.

Plaguebeares are an obvious choice  Great for holding objectives. But unless you go for a tallyman list, that's about all they can do...

For heavy support; never take a lone Grinder, he just wont last/cause enough damage, take in two's or three's. But my money lies in Princes. A unit able to complement any kind of Daemon list, and more resistant to anti tank than the Grinder (less resistant to small arms fire though :S)

I detest Beats of Nurgle, but as always, give them a whirl yourself

Bloodcrushers, Fiends and Flamers are all very good units, different players will tell you different things. I'm a Flamer myself, I swear by those guys. They always managed to make an entertaining impact on the game 

You can strike them back conservatively and make use of their shooting; exactly the same as Horrors but with a better BS D), you're free to jump pack around, pouring shots or flaming what needs to be... Flamed. Then there's always the suicide flame strike option.

Theres nothing I like from the fast attack section, IMO its all points that could be spent much better elsewhere


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## terminatormonkey (May 6, 2009)

great point Concrete hero. i think the blood letters are the better troops but for imp i like th daemonettes


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I'll list what I consider to be the "best" units in the Codex. All of the units listed will have some sort of chemistry with each other, so you won't have to worry too much about synergy once you get to the tabletop.

_Note: Though I'm going to state the rest of this post as though it were fact, do know that all of this is entirely my opinion, which is no more or less valid than anyone else's. I do not consider myself some sort of Daemon Goddess, so feel free to disagree with me._

Daemons have a lot of strong HQ choices. The Bloodthirster of Khorne when given Unholy Might and Blessing of the Blood God is my favorite HQ choice hands-down. He's quick, he's fairly tough, he hits like a ton of bricks and he looks awesome. What's not to love?

Fateweaver is also great, but very difficult to use in games of 1,500 points or less. The thing with Fateweaver is that since he's so hideously expensive it's often wise to take him as your only HQ choice and spend the rest of your points on increasing your numbers. Fateweaver works best in armies that have a lot of smaller Daemons. Generally one should avoid taking too many Soul Grinders with Fateweaver in their army since Grinders will rarely benefit from Fateweaver's special rules.

The Keeper of Secrets is good, but I consider him the worst of the Greater Daemons. I know that tons of people will disagree with this sentiment, but whenever I've used him I've always found that he takes far too much damage from shooting. Any army with a decent amount of ranged capability can remove several Wounds in a single shooting phase if they focus their fire. However, if one is able to hide the Keeper successfully, these guys can be devastating, especially when given Soporific Musk so they can _Hit and Run_ and therefore avoid a good amount of enemy shooting.

Skulltaker's a solid choice too. He's far superior to a normal Herald of Khorne and because of this I really can't think of many reasons to bother taking a generic Herald. Skulltaker's really good when given a Juggernaut as the stat increases he gets make him even deadlier than before. Skulltaker on a Juggie is an almost mandatory inclusion if you decide to take a single unit of Bloodletters.

Tzeentchian Heralds are excellent, be they on foot or in Chariots. Give them Bolt of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery and We Are Legion and have fun. Don't make the mistake of replacing Bolt with Breath of Chaos. The main point of a Tzeentchian Herald is to improve upon a Daemon army's meager shooting abilities - don't waste the opportunity by taking powers with a short range.

For Troops, the two best choices are Plaguebearers and Horrors, in that order. Plaguebearers are excellent Icon and objective holders. They can also beat on undertalented units in close combat, too. Guardsmen, Battle Sisters, Fire Warriors, even very small units of Space Marines can all fall prey to a unit of Plaguebearers in combat. Don't make the mistake of charging at a full-strength Tactical Squad or tempting any sort of super assault unit with power weapons. Plaguebearers are only resilient if they get to take their Feel No Pain save, otherwise they die quite easily.

Horrors are excellent. Taken in units of 8-12, these guys can throw out impressive amounts of firepower that will eat alive anything with a 4+ or worse save. While it's true that Horrors often fail to make much of an impression on units of MEQs, try taking two units of 8 Horrors and focusing their fire on a single squad. You'll likely be pleasantly surprised just how well you do.

Bloodletters *can* work, but I've yet to have much success with them. I can count on one hand the number of times that I've been able to charge my opponent with these guys because people know how much carnage a unit of 'Letters can cause. Even relative newcomers to the game seem to have an almost instinctual fear of these guys, so they rarely reach the enemy in great numbers and rarer still will they survive a battle. Take units of at least 14 models or not at all.

Daemonettes, frankly, suck. Despite having Rending, they're actually less flexible than Bloodletters are and die even easier, sad as that is. I took a unit of 13 and even with Fateweaver standing right next to them, these ladies were chewed through with small arms. Avoid these girls.

Daemons are lucky in that we have a good number of excellent Elite choices. Flamers, Bloodcrushers and Fiends are some of the best units in the game. Flamers can be hard to use right, but they really only need one chance to rip a chunk out of your opponent's army. Bloodcrushers cannot be praised enough. They're the perfect mix of combat power and resilience. A unit of 4 'Crushers can and will turn any and all units into paste if they get to charge. I've seen the Nightbringer go down to a unit of 'Crushers before (which was incredibly lucky, but still!). Every Daemons list should try to include at least three of these guys as a single unit. Fiends are almost as good as 'Crushers. They're a lot faster and hit with even more Attacks. Fiends are one of the Daemon's better options for taking out light and medium vehicles, and tear most infantry apart with ease. Just take fairly large units of them as Fiends, like all Slaaneshi units, are far from resilient.

The Fast Attack section is something I'm just gonna skip over. I've had no luck whatsoever with Flesh Hounds. Anything they can do, Fiends can do better. Furies are crap. Seekers are more expensive Daemonettes. Screamers are interesting and have potential, but I haven't used them so I can't really comment.

Heavy Support is great. Soul Grinders are good when taken with phlegm, but always, in all but the smallest games take them in pairs or not at all. Grinders aren't soft, but if you only have one it'll attract all of the enemy's anti-tank firepower and likely won't last long.

Daemon Princes are where it's at. The best Princes are those of Nurgle and Tzeentch, generally in that order (yes Dallas, you convinced me that Nurgle Princes are amazing!). Khornate Princes are a waste of time. Do not take one. Slaaneshi Princes can be useful, but are generally on the expensive side for what they can accomplish. Nurgle Princes should have Iron Hide, Cloud of Flies and Noxious Touch, where Tzeentchian ones should pick up Unholy Might, Iron Hide and Bolt/Breath.

Hope this helps!

Katie D


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## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

Great advice here!

I play an all Khornate Daemon list, and it is true, I rarely leave the table with many units. Having said that, I'm also yet to lose with them, thanks to luck and deepstrike's denial of terrain potential.

Having hordes of bloodletters makes elite armies such as daemonhunters cry. Even with the reduced WS that you will usually be suffering, if you can get your bloodletters in for the kill they will take out Marines, Terminators and Terminator HQ, leaving your opponent sobbing. I always play each unit supported by a unit of bloodcrushers these days, it presents a bigger target and a smokescreen for the big bloodletter units to advance under. Often, one of the two will be neglected, and that there are three of these pairs circling the table means that invariably somewhere, there is blood for the blood god. 

Unfortunately, this is pointsy, so I haven't got much experience with Daemon Princes or Soul Grinders. I'm sure I can find a way to work them in though!


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Ok, I'm really surprised noone has mentioned this yet.
Herald of Nurgle, with Aura of Decay.
Yes, not particularly powerful, but against horde armies it is _delectable!_

A 6" radius of S2 hits.
Dood.
DOOD.
DS that guy (and a modest retinue of Plague Bearers) in the middle of a clump of infantry, and POW.
Then you've got an icon on the squad and all your pretty other things can come in.
Combined with backup from Horrors and maybe a Soul Grinder or shooty Daemon prince, you're sweet against their deployed infantry.
It'll be half as good against Orkz, but it's still a big deal.

Plaguebearers in the first group, they're great for getting an icon beach head in, and with your Herald they'll be very good at killing infantry.

For the other herald, the Masque might be a good choice, pulling out heavy weapon squad from cover (or moving assault mobs away)

Some Horrors for troops, remember to take the Changeling, that can really help against heavy weapon squads.

I agree that Daemonettes are really fragile, but don't rule them out.
You just need to make SURE they have a cover save, and get them into combat as soon or as safely as possible.
They will destroy infantry, very, very badly.
You may well not need any though, depending on what you choose to take.

A Tzeenchi Daemon prince with Bolt, and nothing else, would be a decent anti-vehicle weapon.
Both in melee and shooting, because his good BS will mean a lot to that bolt.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

An effective way to bring Bloodletters on safely and even give them a good chance of charging I've found is to use units of Crushers as Icons. Drop the letters in right behind them. Crushers are large enough to be a good buffer against a charge and fearsome enough to draw most of the fire, its quite a simple tactic but its really been working for me.

I still prefer Tzeentch princes, but that's because that precious inv save has saved them time and time again


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## terminatormonkey (May 6, 2009)

i love that 4+ save on my DP
damn i forgot the heralds!
Thnx for pointing those out Katie altho the daemonettes are weak, when played right they can run thro most infantry.


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## englhockey (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks for all the information, it really helps


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## terminatormonkey (May 6, 2009)

so you switching to daemons then?


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## englhockey (Mar 19, 2009)

I play daemons some what ive been buying bloodlettrers, daemnettes, and i had a few princes and a thirster but i needed to know what everything exceled at so i can build a list


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## terminatormonkey (May 6, 2009)

plague bearers to hold the first round with icons
all four of the greater daemons are a blast to play and lots of blood letters!
and a soulgrinder cause they look kool. thats my advice otherwise buy what looks coolest!


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

Well i can tell you that is a lot of really good advice that has been posted on daemon units. It has helped me put together a really good list. It is good to play what you like and what works for you as daemons can be a highly personalized army to fit your style.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Does anyone take a Daemon prince WITHOUT armour?
If so, are they like, always Tzeench?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Winterous said:


> Does anyone take a Daemon prince WITHOUT armour?
> If so, are they like, always Tzeench?


I'd imagine so. Daemon Princes are very vulnerable without an armor save. Even Tzeentchian Princes _should_ take Iron Hide to protect them against mid-strength shooting.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> I'd imagine so. Daemon Princes are very vulnerable without an armor save. Even Tzeentchian Princes _should_ take Iron Hide to protect them against mid-strength shooting.


I suppose, but it's another 30 points, it's a lot of points man.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Winterous said:


> I suppose, but it's another 30 points, it's a lot of points man.


30 points that keeps a 120+ point investment standing a lot longer than it would otherwise.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> 30 points that keeps a 120+ point investment standing a lot longer than it would otherwise.


Yeah I guess.
On a Prince with just MoT though, for the melee goodness and decent toughness, I don't think you'd really need it.
It'd make for some cool conversions too, Daemon princes WITHOUT armour :O


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Winterous said:


> Yeah I guess.
> On a Prince with just MoT though, for the melee goodness and decent toughness, I don't think you'd really need it.
> It'd make for some cool conversions too, Daemon princes WITHOUT armour :O


Melee goodness that _will_ fall to bolter fire... And Iron Hide doesn't necessarily mean armour.

I'm paranoid when it comes to princes though, I give them all the 'basic' upgrades (Flight, Might, Hide)


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Concrete Hero said:


> I'm paranoid when it comes to princes though, I give them all the 'basic' upgrades (Flight, Might, Hide)


Flight? Meep! That's expensive... you can get three Bloodcrushers for that. :O


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Flight? Meep! That's expensive... you can get three Bloodcrushers for that. :O


It does seem bank breaking... But it has earned its keep, I couldn't go back to walking princes now (apart from Daemonic Gazing Nurgle princes for a tally list).

Walking Princes, Bloodcrushers; they're just too slow... 

I'm a prophet of the flying prince ways and I wont be swayed :crazy:


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## terminatormonkey (May 6, 2009)

i only give them flying to keep my 5 daemon death punch rolling.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Concrete Hero said:


> It does seem bank breaking... But it has earned its keep, I couldn't go back to walking princes now (apart from Daemonic Gazing Nurgle princes for a tally list).
> 
> Walking Princes, Bloodcrushers; they're just too slow...
> 
> I'm a prophet of the flying prince ways and I wont be swayed :crazy:


Do you face a lot of mech lists? Or do you just have a hard time playing slow armies?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Concrete Hero said:


> It does seem bank breaking... But it has earned its keep, I couldn't go back to walking princes now (apart from Daemonic Gazing Nurgle princes for a tally list).


:O
I never thought of that, Daemon princes work for Tally lists!
Man, and I was thinking they'd have a hard time with MEQ lists :S


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Do you face a lot of mech lists? Or do you just have a hard time playing slow armies?


Mostly Mech. Mech... _Everything_. And in truth I probably do have a problem playing slow armies, though its been awhile since I've used a 'slow' list. Even my GK having pimping wagons to get them around.



Winterous said:


> :O
> I never thought of that, Daemon princes work for Tally lists!
> Man, and I was thinking they'd have a hard time with MEQ lists :S


No-oo not at all. Its a brilliant way to get the tally up fast.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Ku'gath is good for it, too. Necrotic throw or whatever it is can cause enough casualties in one go for the Tally's effects to begin.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Ku'gath is good for it, too. Necrotic throw or whatever it is can cause enough casualties in one go for the Tally's effects to begin.


Yeah, that's pretty damn powerful!


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## terminatormonkey (May 6, 2009)

hey can he move and do that power (the throw) im only asking cause its ordnence andhe a MC so....


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

P51- MC's are all relentless, they can move and shoot whatever they wish to.

I've played a Tally list a lot. The Daemon Princes and Ku'Gath are the main ways the kills start to add up, plaguebearers really cant do the job early on before the bonusses start kicking in.


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## englhockey (Mar 19, 2009)

what is a tally list?never heard of it:scratchhead:


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

englhockey said:


> what is a tally list?never heard of it:scratchhead:


It's a Daemons army that uses Epidemius, the special Nurgle Herald's Tally ability as its main game plan. Tally lists are usually made up of only Nurgle Daemons so that the effects of Epidemius' Tally will take effect sooner and faster. Check out Epidemius' special rules for details on how the Tally works.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

terminatormonkey said:


> hey can he move and do that power (the throw) im only asking cause its ordnence andhe a MC so....


Actually Ordnance weapons don't restrict firing while moving at all.
If somehow you had a Guardsman equipped with a Battle Cannon, he could fire on the move, as it's not a heavy weapon but an Ordnance weapon.

An example is the Demolition charge, it's an Ordnance weapon, but can be thrown while moving.
Another example is the Orbital Bombardment from SM chapter masters, and the Ordnance Barrage from the Master of Ordnance in IG; both specifically state you have to stand still to fire it.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Ku'gath is both Slow and Purposeful and a Monstrous Creature, so he gets Relentless from each of those rules. He can move and use the necrotic throw.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

And remember, he's a Monstrous creature.
They can fire 2 weapons every turn.
So he can use 2 of his 3 shooting attacks every turn.


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## terminatormonkey (May 6, 2009)

i thought vehicles couldnt move and fire ordence, what bout walkers then? the defiler has abattle cannon.

anbody use the screamers with success?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

terminatormonkey said:


> i thought vehicles couldnt move and fire ordence, what bout walkers then? the defiler has abattle cannon.
> 
> anbody use the screamers with success?


Vehicles can move and fire with ordnance, just not indirectly. So you can move and fire with a Defiler's battle cannon, but not with, say, a Whirlwind that's trying to shoot over terrain.

As for Screamers, I'm yet to try them out but I hear good things about small units (4 strong, usually) as they really help against vehicles which Daemons struggle with. Unfortunately they're not very effective against walkers, but I guess that's why we have Monstrous Creatures. ^_^


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Winterous said:


> Actually Ordnance weapons don't restrict firing while moving at all.
> If somehow you had a Guardsman equipped with a Battle Cannon, he could fire on the move, as it's not a heavy weapon but an Ordnance weapon.


ROFL! Reminds me of Serious Sam:









On a somewhat more topic relevant note: if I roll an all-Tzeentchy army, does fielding scores of Horrors help them overcoming their weaknesses enough that its worth the effort? I'm thinking of these guys sucking in melee (though not as hard as the Tau I imagine, lol bonk-bonk), holding objectives and having trouble killing MEQs and TEQs. Secondly, how does an all-Tzeentchy army deal with MEQs and TEQs?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Khorothis said:


> On a somewhat more topic relevant note: if I roll an all-Tzeentchy army, does fielding scores of Horrors help them overcoming their weaknesses enough that its worth the effort? I'm thinking of these guys sucking in melee (though not as hard as the Tau I imagine, lol bonk-bonk), holding objectives and having trouble killing MEQs and TEQs. Secondly, how does an all-Tzeentchy army deal with MEQs and TEQs?


A pure Tzeentch army is probably the second strongest single-God force you can run. Only a pure Nurgle army with Epidemius is better.

If you take a lot of Horrors, you should be able to wipe out most units that can assault you. Taking objectives is never really easy, but small units of Horrors can do the job fairly well, especially if they're in cover so you can opt to go to ground if you need to.

MEQ and TEQ heavy armies aren't easy to deal with. Generally you'll want to use your most powerful long ranged abilities like Bolt of Tzeentch and Daemonic Gaze a lot while normal warpfire mops up anything still left standing after your Greater Daemon(s) and Daemon Princes have had their way with the enemy. Flamers of Tzeentch excel at taking out units of Marines and Terminators, especially in units of 3 or 4 strong.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> A pure Tzeentch army is probably the second strongest single-God force you can run. Only a pure Nurgle army with Epidemius is better.
> 
> If you take a lot of Horrors, you should be able to wipe out most units that can assault you. Taking objectives is never really easy, but small units of Horrors can do the job fairly well, especially if they're in cover so you can opt to go to ground if you need to.
> 
> MEQ and TEQ heavy armies aren't easy to deal with. Generally you'll want to use your most powerful long ranged abilities like Bolt of Tzeentch and Daemonic Gaze a lot while normal warpfire mops up anything still left standing after your Greater Daemon(s) and Daemon Princes have had their way with the enemy. Flamers of Tzeentch excel at taking out units of Marines and Terminators, especially in units of 3 or 4 strong.


So Horrors, Flamers, DPs and probably LoCs are the way to go? Secondly, is would it be a good idea to have small Horror squads holding objectives and bigger ones moving around kicking butt? Or should I just make every squad the same size?


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## terminatormonkey (May 6, 2009)

hey whats the daemons best tactic to kill a monolith? the living metal makes it hard unless you have a soulgrinder and i hate taking them against necros cause of the gauss weponry


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

terminatormonkey said:


> hey whats the daemons best tactic to kill a monolith? the living metal makes it hard unless you have a soulgrinder and i hate taking them against necros cause of the gauss weponry


Mostly you just don't. Monoliths are nigh-impossible for Daemons to deal with. If killing it is an absolute must, just focus every Bolt of Tzeentch you have and hope to get lucky. Bolt's low AP means we can destroy a 'Lith on a Glancing Hit. Wind of Chaos can do fairly well at stopping the Monolith from firing its weapons.

To outright destroy a Monolith, the only luck I've ever had was having my Bloodthirster with Unholy Might charge. With an effective S of 9 and 6 Attacks you can take out the 'Lith... but not without a lot of luck. I guess the Soul Grinder's Tongue attack is our best answer at range and the Grinder's Dreadnought close combat weapons would do best up close. The problem is, as you've said, wading through all the glancing hits without becoming immobilized or something.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Just like SoB daemons should just not try to kill it... if the best you can do is S8 AP1 then forget it.

They really need to alter the living metal rule- its stupid that while some armies have almost no chance to kill it others just take one look and laugh (eg Tau).


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Vehicles can move and fire with ordnance, just not indirectly. So you can move and fire with a Defiler's battle cannon, but not with, say, a Whirlwind that's trying to shoot over terrain.


Keep in mind a lot of things CANNOT fire directly.
So they can't move and fire their things.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Winterous said:


> Keep in mind a lot of things CANNOT fire directly.
> So they can't move and fire their things.


Well sure. Things like Colossi, Griffons and stuff don't have a direct fire option, but that's stated clearly in their profile.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Well sure. Things like Colossi, Griffons and stuff don't have a direct fire option, but that's stated clearly in their profile.


Yeah, I'm just saying because you specified "When shooting over cover", insinuating that a lot of the time they'll have the option to shoot directly, which isn't true.


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