# Most overpriced pieces in 40k



## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

Have you ever sat there assembling a list, going over the codex and adding numbers in your head, and felt that this or that unit or piece -really- shouldn't cost that much?
If so, post your favorite point-hogging wonders here. I'll kick it off with a few:

Tau Fire warrior: the easiest way to measure a au player's maturity is to gauge his growing resentment of the Firewarriors. weet guns, not realthat adept at hitting stuff with them; inflexible (can't add anti-armor capacities or anything), crumbles in CC, lukerwarm morale. Tau armies are supposed to be about one unit helping the other out, yes...but these guys need a -lot- of help just to keep sucking air. 

Tau Gun Drone: Even costlier, even more nearsighted, shorter range. very lame for ablative wounds on troops choices. And they even have poor morale, despite being AIs!! Can't some geek Tau engineer just code some "shoot at greenskins/tyranids nonstop until you are crushed" lines into them, fr the greater good?

Chaos Defiler: Possibly one of the coolest, meanest units in the game. Amazing firepower, but also adept at going down on the first melta or rocket shot by any infiltrating/Deepstriking unit. Could use perhaps a bit less guns in exchange for a cheaper price, in order to make getting a spare for emergencies feasible outside of 2k points games.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

I would say Tyranid Warrios, as 30 points for a unit that can be insta-killed just sucks. Tyrannofexes are the worst, however, as they die quick and cost 265 points.

Oh yeah, definately Carnifexes. Got worse, cost double the price.


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## liforrevenge (Oct 6, 2009)

Everything in the Blood Angels Codex. Except Corbulo and Lemartes.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

DestroyerHive said:


> Oh yeah, definately Carnifexes. Got worse, cost double the price.


Holy crap, can't believe I forgot those. I leafed through the codex and just assumed I had read it incorrectly.

In my defense, I may have been dazed the the cheese that was the Mawloc, though.


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## EuroChild (Feb 4, 2010)

Fire Prisms. They do alright when they shoot, but most games they spend the whole time floating around being shaken or stunned.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Yup, pretty much 90% of the new Tyranids are way overpriced, making them alot less of a "horde" army


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## Caledor (Jan 15, 2008)

Why has noone mentioned the "humble" Grey Knight? At 25pts base for what is really a regular marine with an extra ranged shot and WS it doesn't exactly scream cost efficient.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Caledor said:


> Why has noone mentioned the "humble" Grey Knight? At 25pts base for what is really a regular marine with an extra ranged shot and WS it doesn't exactly scream cost efficient.


Extra ranged shot, double the range for shooting on the move, fearless, aegis, special rules against daemons, always get 2 attacks where SM only get 2 on the charge, strength 6, ws 5, fearless, shrouding, squad leader has a strength 6 power weapon.

So they have advantages. Given the rest of their codex they're still not really worth 25 points each, but they do have a purpose.


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## BiOHaTe (Nov 19, 2009)

Culler said:


> Extra ranged shot, double the range for shooting on the move, fearless, aegis, special rules against daemons, always get 2 attacks where SM only get 2 on the charge, strength 6, ws 5, fearless, shrouding, squad leader has a strength 6 power weapon.
> 
> So they have advantages. Given the rest of their codex they're still not really worth 25 points each, but they do have a purpose.


Considering Khorne Zerkers are 21 pts, Grey Knights look tasty.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

as much as i hate to say it....

Swooping Hawk's they are cool models....But there just Flying gaurdsmen!

Oh and maybe the great..."shining spear" The one eldar unit i have NEVER seen played.


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## Tossidin (Dec 10, 2008)

Space wolf Rune priest, Costs to much to be effective!


On a serious note, I second the carnifex, though I think it is with good reason they got more expensive.


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

Sephyr said:


> Tau Fire warrior: the easiest way to measure a au player's maturity is to gauge his growing resentment of the Firewarriors. weet guns, not realthat adept at hitting stuff with them; inflexible (can't add anti-armor capacities or anything), crumbles in CC, lukerwarm morale. Tau armies are supposed to be about one unit helping the other out, yes...but these guys need a -lot- of help just to keep sucking air.


Now you see i'm going to have to vastly disagree here. I've felt for some time that the Firewarrior is oneo f the best money for value units around. Yes his morale bites, yes they fold in CC, and yes they have no anti armor capabilites (a role thats better filled by broadsides and hammerheads anyway). Hes also only 10 points. 10 points?!

For those 10 points you get a Str 5, 30 inch Gun AND a 4+ armor save. There BS is 3 so they hit 50% of the time, however they wound guardsmen or eldar on a 2+ and meq s on a 3+ and since their guns can fire 6 inchs further than anyone elses you can make a solid firing line. For 10 points its a bargin, it amazes me Tau players take so few.


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

Sephyr said:


> Have you ever sat there assembling a list, going over the codex and adding numbers in your head, and felt that this or that unit or piece -really- shouldn't cost that much?
> If so, post your favorite point-hogging wonders here. I'll kick it off with a few:
> 
> Tau Fire warrior: the easiest way to measure a au player's maturity is to gauge his growing resentment of the Firewarriors. weet guns, not realthat adept at hitting stuff with them; inflexible (can't add anti-armor capacities or anything), crumbles in CC, lukerwarm morale. Tau armies are supposed to be about one unit helping the other out, yes...but these guys need a -lot- of help just to keep sucking air.
> ...


This is just wrong, Fire warriors don't have BS4 because they have access to markerlights, going by your logic it would only take 1 ML hit to make them hit on 2s which is just plain wrong. There is a similar reason for them not having heavy weapons, a Tau player can get silly amounts of special/heavy weapons in the rest of the codex. As for the leadership, Tau don't stand and fight if they are going to loose, they retreat and attack again. Thats rules fitting fluff, besides, Leadership 8 isn't _bad_, theres just better ones out there.

Lets compare to a gaurdian which comes in at two points less. 12" range, 5+ save, fleet and still sucks arse in combat. I think that the pricelooks alot fairer next to that doesn't it?



EuroChild said:


> Fire Prisms. They do alright when they shoot, but most games they spend the whole time floating around being shaken or stunned.


I could say the same about the Vindicator, the problem you describe isn't a points issue, its just that players know what they can do and so try to shut them down. If you reduce the price they will still have the power and so will still be targeted. Besides 115 points for a Fast Skimmer with AV12 and an awsome gun? About fair I think.

I do have a suggestion though, I think that a Laspreds are a little bit too expensive maybe just a drop in 10-20 points would make it a bit better seeing as lascannons aren't as fun as they used to be.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

In my opinion, everything with pointy ears is a little overcosted (that's both Dark and Craftworld Eldar). The one exception to that is Eldar Fire Dragons, which could stand for a two point increase given the emphasis on close-range weapons in this edition. The reason I think a lot of Eldar things are slightly overpriced is that their skills aren't significantly better than anyone elses', and they're all T3. I could see paying the same cost as a Space Marine per model if Aspect Warriors were either WS or BS5, depending on their role-- for example, Banshees, Shining Spears, and Scorpions should be WS5, and Avengers, Warp Spiders, and Swooping Hawks could be BS5. As for the Dark Reapers and Fire Dragons, making them BS5 would seriously break them, so they could just be left at BS4 with the explanation that reaper launchers are complex weapons that are tempermental in combat, so the best they get is BS4 with them; and in the case of the Fire Dragons, they're too busy being angry to focus on lining up their shots, but they're still Aspect Warriors and pointy eared scum at that, so they're still above average shots.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Repentia.




nuff said


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

I stick to my Tyrannofex.:so_happy:


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

DestroyerHive said:


> I stick to my Tyrannofex.:so_happy:


yea i do to... damn SUPER GLUE!

overpriced stuff - most eldar stuff is crazy - dark eldar tho are another matter 4 S8 ap2 lance hits for under 100 points for a troop choice that has bs4 is cheap as chips and twice as deadly!


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Carnifex
T-Fex
Harpy (though its right with the HVC- I would drop base and increase upgrade cost)
Daemonettes
Guardians
Predator Anhiliator
Vindicare Assassin
Deathcults
Necron Warriors
Pariahs
Tomb Spiders

Think thats most things that I like in theory but just wouldnt play in practice (if avoidable) purely on points cost.


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## GWLlosa (Sep 27, 2009)

Ogryns. I keep thinking I'd like to use them, but they're like $15 per model even secondhand.


Oh, and their points cost is high too.


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## yergerjo (Jan 3, 2009)

The Son of Horus said:


> In my opinion, everything with pointy ears is a little overcosted (that's both Dark and Craftworld Eldar).


Yes! Please make my outdated army even cheaper (DE)! Then I can squeeze more death onto the table! k:



MJayC50 said:


> overpriced stuff - most eldar stuff is crazy - dark eldar tho are another matter 4 S8 ap2 lance hits for under 100 points for a troop choice that has bs4 is cheap as chips and twice as deadly!


Actually that would only be 2 AP 2 S 8 Lance shots at 100 points, for 2 more (at a shorter range) try adding 10 more points. :grin:


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

> Repentia.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I second this. Expensive, die easily, strike last with crappy armour saves and not way to get into combat effectively.


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## Siphon (Jan 17, 2009)

Possessed Marines - Way to expensive for what they do. If they could choose their special, then the price would be fine. With the random price, way too expensive.

Plasma Pistols - How often do you see these? I give one to my Assault Squad serg and thats about it.

Vanguard - Seriously, I have to pay extra for the special assault ability only useable when they deepstrike and then I have to buy the jumppacks for them too? You pay extra for nothing if you don't give them jumppacks, basically get screwed both ways. Not to mention the ridiculous costs of most space marine special weapons. I guess these guys balance out Sternguard which are extremely useful for their points.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

The Son of Horus said:


> The one exception to that is Eldar Fire Dragons, which could stand for a two point increase given the emphasis on close-range weapons in this edition.


That's the fault of whoever had the bright idea of making the only reliable way to kill a tank either to hit it with a powerfist or a melta gun. The Lascannon is the dedicated anti-tank gun, but sucks cheesy goat balls for it's intended purpose. Melta is simply more powerful than it should be.



The Son of Horus said:


> The reason I think a lot of Eldar things are slightly overpriced is that their skills aren't significantly better than anyone elses', and they're all T3.


I disagree. No-one else in the game has a unit armed ENTIRELY with Power weapons at 160pts for 10 models. Likewise Melta guns. Likewise S5 AP3 Heavy 2 missiles. Likewise S4 AP5 Assault 3 guns.



The Son of Horus said:


> I could see paying the same cost as a Space Marine per model if Aspect Warriors were either WS or BS5, depending on their role-- for example, Banshees, Shining Spears, and Scorpions should be WS5, and Avengers, Warp Spiders, and Swooping Hawks could be BS5.


No. Dire Avengers already get 33 shots hitting on 3s and 2s for the Exarch. Making the entire unit hit on 2s would make them FAR too expensive for their role and life expectancy, and also ruin the synergy of the Guide/Doom combo. Likewise Warp Spiders would become stupidly good being able to Deep Strike behind tanks and loose off 2x BS5 S6 shots each at rear armour.



The Son of Horus said:


> As for the Dark Reapers and Fire Dragons, making them BS5 would seriously break them, so they could just be left at BS4 with the explanation that reaper launchers are complex weapons that are tempermental in combat, so the best they get is BS4 with them; and in the case of the Fire Dragons, they're too busy being angry to focus on lining up their shots, but they're still Aspect Warriors and pointy eared scum at that, so they're still above average shots.


The best and most famed marksmen in the Eldar army shoot worse than the guys who spend 90% of their time trying to practice flying or teleporting? Doesn't fit. Eldar weapons are not "tempermental". Imperial Plasma weaponry is "tempermental". Eldar create precise instruments of almost surgical death, not half-assed primitive explosives.

I would say if anything that Banshees, Dragons and Avengers should be 1 point more, they're ridiculously good value. However Guardians, Hawks, Spiders, Spears and Vypers are overpriced (or just need to be made better in order to justify the points).


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

I actually think the lascannon / melta situation is in a great place. 4th Edition showed the lascannon as far far to dominent. Everything came with it. Dreadnaught with twin linked las cannon, lassed up predators, devastator squads and a land raider. It ripped tanks apart from over 48 inchs and then leasurely picked off whatever had survived the massacre.

Now Lascannons are still dangerous and still the best Anti Tank weapon the Imperium has at 48 inchs (aside from D weapons). Melta weapons are superior in Anti Tanik but that superiorty is only in a 6-12 inch window. I tend to find that pretty balanced.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

I HIGHLY disagree with SM weapons overpriced. If anything, they're way _underpriced_. 35 points for something that can inst-kill practically everything?


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

I find this last post rather amusing. Right or Wrong, A lascannon costs a Devastator squad 35 points for 48 inchs of instant death right? Its generally considered vastly to expensive and no one takes them. Some deals just arnt as sweet as they look on paper.


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## raverboi (Jan 15, 2009)

JackalMJ said:


> I find this last post rather amusing. Right or Wrong, A lascannon costs a Devastator squad 35 points for 48 inchs of instant death right? Its generally considered vastly to expensive and no one takes them. Some deals just arnt as sweet as they look on paper.


i beg to differ
i use devestators with 2 lascannons in them fairly frequently
BLOOD ANGELS ones mind you, they cost an arm and a leg, at 305 points for what i usually take

being considered over-priced or not is usually a matter of how easily they are used effectively


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

Calamari said:


> This is just wrong, Fire warriors don't have BS4 because they have access to markerlights, going by your logic it would only take 1 ML hit to make them hit on 2s which is just plain wrong. There is a similar reason for them not having heavy weapons, a Tau player can get silly amounts of special/heavy weapons in the rest of the codex. As for the leadership, Tau don't stand and fight if they are going to loose, they retreat and attack again. Thats rules fitting fluff, besides, Leadership 8 isn't _bad_, theres just better ones out there.


Markelights still hit fire with BS3, meaning you usually need a sound investment in Pathfinders (and also their nifty but expensive transport). With the preponderance of cover in the game now, those s5 shots will be killing far less than expected, especially against hordes that -must- be thinned out fast. Most markerlight hits are better used stripping cover saves or firing seeker missiles at transports.

They really should lower their WS to 2 if they are really meant to toast in CC, and toss that point either in BS or in morale, or leave it off and drop their cost to 8 or 9.

And the 'Tau flee from a losing battle to fight again' theory is nice fluff-wise, but in the actual game they flee their way right into defeat.


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

Do you honestly think a unit with a 4+ save, 30 inch str 5 weapons should only cost 8 points... really? Apparently you havn't looked at the units of other races recently. The Tau may need boosts but its not by making Firewarriors cheaper. And giving them BS 4 would just brake them.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

JackalMJ said:


> Do you honestly think a unit with a 4+ save, 30 inch str 5 weapons should only cost 8 points... really? Apparently you havn't looked at the units of other races recently. The Tau may need boosts but its not by making Firewarriors cheaper. And giving them BS 4 would just brake them.


The mere fact that the most common use of FW's is to sit in a transport away from the action, with as few of them as possible being taken in order to leave points for other units that actually perform their roles efficiently, attests to how they do not bring enough to the table to be worth their points. 

Agreed, they have a mean weapon choice. As mentioned before, they will miss a lot with them and many of those hits will be saver through omnipresent cover and the pulse rifle's poor AP. And their own armor save, while certainly nothing to disparage, is just enough to be bypassed by any semi-serious AP weapon.

Maybe the right way to put it is that they are not overpriced but inneficiently designed for their goal, thus not really returning the points spent on them.


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

while you make some valid points my cuonte is that they dont miss anymore than anyone else really. SM, CSM and Necrons for example have BS 4 which on average results in a 66% hit ratio, followed by a 66% wound ratio on T3 opponents or 50% on MEQ. This along with a few other features makes them much more pricey. Fire Warriors have a 50% hit ratio, a 5/6 wound ratio on T3 and a 66% ratio on MEQ's. And their much cheaper. All these troops have crappy AP on their guns and all suffer equally against cover saves. It is not a Tau unquie problem.

Tau also arnt the only army that has BS3, its fairly common, BS4 goes to the "elite" armies, Tau dont actually meet that standard, thats why Firewarriors are cheap at 10 points. Compare them To a Eldar Guardian... those guys suck.

Anyway the fact that people take as few as possible and never use them could be because people are stupid. I've had a Firewarrior gun line take chunks out of the Nightbringer. 

All that aside they may need some reworking for the new rules. Most old codexs do. But really I think these guys are awesome at their prescribed role.


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## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

Indeed, but keep in mind that Tau have very limited troop choices, and troops are the guys that can actually hold objectives. Eldar Guardians are lame, yes, (keep in mind, though, that they have the option of bringing along and protecting a warlock for a very palatable cost) but for only a couple points more apiece than a FW an Eldar can get Dire avengers which shoot and fight quite well, have better morale, amazing initiative and the same armor save. If the FW had that statline, I'd happily pay even more than the DA's cost for each.


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