# IG Artillery choices?



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I want something Artillery like. But keep drawing blanks. 

Manticor seems the best choice.... but AP4 does no good against all the 3+ I find myself against. The chance to fly off my target by 2d6 isn't appealing.

Medusa seems great. The ONLY problems I have with it is its a Direct Fire and that means my AV12 will be popped, even 4+ cover doest seem to make up for this. Also 36 inches is too close sometimes.

Basilisk is awesome and would be my first choice, squad of 2 for 250 seems great for Anti Marine and Tank. The BIGGEST problem Ive seen is its minimum range of 36 inches. Thats alto of distance it cant cover when it matters.

Colossus sounds great for Anti-Infantry, but the 2dg Scatter single shot is unproductive and a more often than not wasted shot, as well as ST6 meaning not good against Tanks.

Griffon..... yeah right.

So My question is what is the better Artillery tank?


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## ItsPug (Apr 5, 2009)

With any artillery you're trading the armour for the ability to fire from out of LOS. There is always going to be a trade-off.

As to the question itself I use a manticore and 2 squadrons of russes. Manticore is used to take out vehicles as the str 10 ordnance is a blast! (pun intended) and hordes. The Russes to take out MEQ. The Manticore can do alright against Marines if you get multiple hits,


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## laviathan13089 (Apr 21, 2011)

the medusa seems redundant to me, you can get las cannons and meltaguns on your troopers and even multimeltas, demolishers, lascannons, or vanquisher cannons on russ's. why take a medusa at all? there are other guns that do a comparable jobs at simmilar ranges, with better survivability (squadrons of av14). i think the leman russ squadron is the single most powerfull tank choice. they cost a little more, but you get more out of them. the only thing the artilery has on them is range (yeah 120", you'll shoot that far all the time...sarcasm) and the ability to fire indirectly (3d6 scatter... no thanks) so if your committed to getting artillery i would say the basilisk, its got range and power, can direct fire, and fits a wider variety of situations. although, manticore's are really nice, especially 2. if you spend small amounts of points on them and then use your surplus on your leman russ's they tend to make your HS choices go pretty far.
you can take any combination of tanks from the ordinance battery and basilisks can direct fire, so w


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

The thing with Artillery is that it's generally more devastating than the other HS choices, Russes mainly, so it doesn't matter so much if it doesn't last all game. In the right circumstances all the Artillery is worth fielding, even Griffons:grin: I have at least 2 of every Artillery piece and have used them all quite a lot.

I use Manticores as I've found them to be the best 'generalist' - type Artillery...very good at anti-Hoard/MC/Armour and if you roll 2 or more Blasts even good against MEQ.

The other 'generalist' is the Basilisk and the only thing it has over the Manticore is AP3 which means it's better at killing SM's, but the latter is +1 S and more shots (average is 2)...I only field Bassies in Apoc games now because I face a ton of Mech lists, and the Manticore is awesome against them, hell 2 is even better.

If I don't field 2 Manticores my second slot is a fully kitted Executioner, while my third HS slot goes to a pair of Hydras.

On your other choices you mentioned -

Medusa does need protecting because of Direct fire (but I protect all my Artillery anyway..lasts longer) but it is IG's longest ranged 2D6 weapon (BB's) so has its uses, plus even a hit at S5 can still do enough damage against lighter AV. But if using the standard weapon I'd prefer just to take a Manticore. 

Colossus is great against MEQ on a Terrain-heavy Board...if not doing this I wouldn't bother with it.

Griffons are anti-Hoard mainly and their 're-roll means it's very accurate, plus it's an Ordnance Barrage weapon so good against light AV.

Overall, out of all of them IF you're making an all-comer's list the Manticore is first choice, Bassie second....or there's always Leman Russes - top 3 are LRBT, Demolisher and Executioner.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Quick question, and for some reason im confuse, does Inderect Fire counts as 3d6, or is it 2d6, and both cases you do NOT minus the BS from the roll? 

If it is 3d6 then the Mantocore really never hiting the target at all rarely, unless you roll a Hit?


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Indirect Fire is 2D6, and you don't subtract the BS.

Personally, i think that all of the Artillery choices are decent for their points. Some slightly more than others, but they all have their own purpose.
Generally though, i think the Manticore is easily the best. The only downside to it is that it can't be squadroned where as most of the others can.

I am running 2 Manticores and a LR Executioner with Plasma Sponsons.
The Manticores dish out a lot of hurt to high-AV vehicles and hordes, while the Executioner takes care of anything with a decent save.
After using Hydras in a few lower point games though, i have been tempted to drop a Manticore to put in a pair.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

2D6, mate.

Marines are fairly high in number around here, and running a bike list, I can reasonably counter executioners - but Collossus rape me. A mate of mine runs 2 Collossus and 2 Hydra alongside Plasma and Melta Vets in Chimera's.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Awesome, Sounds like the Manticore and Colossus are going to go thru the paces. 

Are Hydras really that good? At first I wanted to fit them in, but I took Hits under my Platoons instead. The HWT get 6 shots vs 2, 6 wounds, 4+ Cover Saves, and are Scoring on Objectives, and receive Orders. The Hydras have 2 shots at a longer range, and Bikes/Skimmers going flat out don't get their save, but the chance to die to Immobils as well as Wreaks and Explodes. 

So at 150 is 2 AC HWTs in a Platoon better than 2 Hydras in a HS slot?


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> Awesome, Sounds like the Manticore and Colossus are going to go thru the paces.
> 
> Are Hydras really that good? At first I wanted to fit them in, but I took Hits under my Platoons instead. The HWT get 6 shots vs 2, 6 wounds, 4+ Cover Saves, and are Scoring on Objectives, and receive Orders. The Hydras have 2 shots at a longer range, and Bikes/Skimmers going flat out don't get their save, but the chance to die to Immobils as well as Wreaks and Explodes.
> 
> So at 150 is 2 AC HWTs in a Platoon better than 2 Hydras in a HS slot?


They have TWO twin-linked Autocannons and a Heavy Bolter each.

So 4 shots each, re-rolling hits.

So a pair of Hydras has 8 AC shots and 6 HB shots.


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## TimberWolfA (Jan 12, 2010)

KingOfCheese said:


> They have TWO twin-linked Autocannons and a Heavy Bolter each.
> 
> So 4 shots each, re-rolling hits.
> 
> So a pair of Hydras has 8 AC shots and 6 HB shots.


Exactly, Space Marine Dakka-Dreads are jealous. As to one being better than the other, it depends on the rest of your army. All mech or all infantry is the way to roll.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Hydras are great...t'l'd at BS3 is also more accurate than BS4 (just fyi). Having 2 sets of AC's also means it takes 2 weapons destroyed results to wipe them out entirely. They are also good at AI so don't just limit them to AT.

In the end AC HWS's fit the Infantry Theme, Hydras fit with a Mech Theme.
Not that I tailor but 6 Hydras (or more like some of my mates have) makes the new DE cry.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

BS4??? The Stats say BS 3, the same as HWT BS?


And Yeeees, I too hate going up against the new DE (5 matches, 5 losses), hence one of the reasons why I sold a small portion of my Chaos to kickstart my IG.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

The BS comment was just a passing one really...I'm saying that been t'linked a BS3 unit is better than a BS4 unit at shooting.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Ahh fuck thats were I was confused. Page 51 says Heavy 2 thats it nothing TL. On Page 102 with the points cost it shows it is TL. Got it.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

TimberWolfA said:


> All mech or all infantry is the way to roll.


I tend to disagree.

Having a couple of artillery peices in an Infantry list is VERY handy, and having a blobbed platoon to hold the home objective in a ChiMeltaVet list while shooting their Autocannons and acting as bubblewrap for your artillery can be game winning.


Lists are better when they are mainly mech or mainly infantry (not a 50:50 mix), but they always do better when a little bit of the other theme is introduced as a supporting role.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

KingOfCheese said:


> I tend to disagree.
> 
> Having a couple of artillery peices in an Infantry list is VERY handy, and having a blobbed platoon to hold the home objective in a ChiMeltaVet list while shooting their Autocannons and acting as bubblewrap for your artillery can be game winning.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more...Hybrid lists for the win:victory:


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## Mikeybx (Jul 8, 2009)

Basilisk all the way  and don't forget minimum range is only when your firing indirectly


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## TimberWolfA (Jan 12, 2010)

KingOfCheese said:


> I tend to disagree.
> 
> Having a couple of artillery peices in an Infantry list is VERY handy, and having a blobbed platoon to hold the home objective in a ChiMeltaVet list while shooting their Autocannons and acting as bubblewrap for your artillery can be game winning.
> 
> ...


I suppose that I'm not disagreeing, just being too general (since I was referring to my philosophy for all armies, not just IG). Upon inspection, my Space Wolf Armies always have a rhino to put my Rune Priests in or troops of ~8 inside the 4-6 rhinos I'm running. My Eldar armies have more than just DAVU in each Wave Serpent. My Tyranid Army has Termagants to support my massive amount of T6. And my Daemon Armies, um, well, Daemons just ignore all rules and sensibilities that apply to the rest of the game.

Conclusion, sure, I'll try to be more descriptive in the future.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks for the help. The Bassies and Manticores rock. I like the Hydras but the LRBTs, Bassies, and Manticore take up the Heavy Spots. I guess in lower point Games Ill take them.


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## Flash (May 11, 2011)

Controversy here we go. I think manticore, deathstrike, medusa and colossus are designed for apocolypse games.

For 40k I think the basilisk is the best all round flexable artillery for the points cost. The Griffon also shouldn't be overlooked, I think it's under rated. It's an ordnance barrage for 75 points.

Personally I think all the artillery choices are lacking though so I always play leman russ as my big guns for 40k games and always do very well with them. AV 14 and generally much better weapons and special rules.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I have used the medusa in several games against CSM's and it has allways been worth it. Either a significant amount of firepower is used to neutralise it ot it brutally rapes a couple of squads of marines. They are are also capable of firing over a chimera parked in front. Good cover.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Flash said:


> Controversy here we go. I think manticore, deathstrike, medusa and colossus are designed for apocolypse games.
> 
> For 40k I think the basilisk is the best all round flexable artillery for the points cost. The Griffon also shouldn't be overlooked, I think it's under rated. It's an ordnance barrage for 75 points.
> 
> Personally I think all the artillery choices are lacking though so I always play leman russ as my big guns for 40k games and always do very well with them. AV 14 and generally much better weapons and special rules.


Not controversial at all...just your personal opinion which is fine. 

I agree that the Deathstrike should be Apoc only, but disagree about the others. Manticore is the best all-rounder, with Bassie second. Medusa and Colossus are specialised so aren't used a whole lot overall so don't cop much ill-will from the majority of players...in my area anyway (which covers about 100 players).

I see many competitive lists that have zero LR's...Artillery does the majority of its damage in the first few turns, whereas LR's are more about reasonable damage over more turns. Yes Artillery requires some protection, but LR's are just as susceptible to assault due to similar rear AV and limited range (on some of them, not all).

Still, this is just my opinion as well, so ymmv...which is cool:gimmefive:


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