# Stormravens for All!



## SlamHammer (Mar 28, 2011)

How would you feel if all Space Marine armies were granted access to Stormravens? Also, would you rather it be the Blood Angels version, Grey Knights, or an all together new standard version for the other Chapters?


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I would be fine with that as soon as I get Thunderwolves for my Blood Angels army.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

The Blood Ravens? I think you meant the Blood Angels. 

And no, I would rather not have ANY other Chapters get access to it.


----------



## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Pretty much what Aramoro said. Giving it everyone means its no longer a unique selling point for those armies that do have access to it. Giving it everyone just opens up the arguement of why can't other chapters have Thunderwolves, or Deathwing or any of the other aspects that are unique to a particular marine chapter and codex.


----------



## SlamHammer (Mar 28, 2011)

Doelago said:


> The Blood Ravens? I think you meant the Blood Angels.


Whoops! Fixed.



GrizBe said:


> Pretty much what Aramoro said. Giving it everyone means its no longer a unique selling point for those armies that do have access to it. Giving it everyone just opens up the arguement of why can't other chapters have Thunderwolves, or Deathwing or any of the other aspects that are unique to a particular marine chapter and codex.


I would argue that some vehicles are transferable between Chapters. For example, Rhinos/Razorbacks, Dreadnoughts, Drop Pods, Demolishers, Land Raiders, etc are spread among many Chapters with slight or no changes. They may occupy a different force organization slot or have a slightly different loadout, but are for the most part interchangable.

Now do I expect someone to wield my Dreadknight or for me to run some Thunderwolves, not at all because they are unique to only a single army and fit that armies fluff. Stormravens have already crossed Codexs once. I would honestly expect to see the Stormraven become part of the new Chapters codexs as 6th edition roles in.


----------



## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

i dont know, why do people assume that storm ravens are what makes GKs and BAs unique?

would I want a storm raven for my SW? no.

do I care otherwise? no.

would it be "stupidly OP" for the rest of the SM armies to get the raven? no.


----------



## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

i sorta wish we did becuase of the game play advantages it would give. but on the other hand it (in my opinion) one of the ugliest models out there so , i wont miss that in my army.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Depends on whether you could put Thunderwolves in it.

Midnight


----------



## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

*ahem* DA *ahem* Flying Deathwing? Yes please.


----------



## rayrod64 (Apr 19, 2011)

Sure why not. 

Just a model and transport..
same thing happened with the LR Crusader and the Black Templars.
Now its standard across the board and it doesnt make the templars any worse off


----------



## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

I wouldn't give a shit, I'll let someone take a stormraven in any marine army, I really don't care, it'll only be shot down anyway, blue, red, green or yellow, they all crash and burn the same way


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

For my Jade Sabers it would be awesome, I don't get why they are the only two who can have it, I mean it's a vehicle not a special unit like thunderwolfs or dreadknights. It's like limiting the crusader to a black templar only item or a redeemer to salamander only, it makes no sense and you will sell less of them.


----------



## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

id like it to be allowed for Apoc, but in the other codexs id rather not, id like to see tempests for C:SMs and Twolves for SWs and DW for DA...the twilight marines & GKs can keep the storm pigeon in their codexs.


----------



## Lucio (Aug 10, 2009)

I wouldn't care particularly, though it was kinda nice just having it as a BA option. I don't think I would use it if I could one way or the other.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

My force is meant to be semi airborne so it would help the feel of it, was going to get that Caestus assault ram, would prefer getting something cheaper though


----------



## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Lol, even the Orks got it before the Spess Mahreens 

View attachment 15585


----------



## Bhaal006 (Apr 11, 2010)

Stormravens for everybody.


----------



## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

DestroyerHive said:


> Lol, even the Orks got it before the Spess Mahreens
> 
> View attachment 15585


and theres still looks better


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

DestroyerHive said:


> Lol, even the Orks got it before the Spess Mahreens
> 
> View attachment 15585


That is properly awesome my friend.


----------



## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

Not actually interested in the Storm Raven. Doesn't really go with my Salamanders. I'd prefer a Baal Predator, as I cannot stand not having access to a vehicle with such flamey-goodness.


----------



## Tzeen Qhayshek (May 4, 2010)

Dicrel Seijin said:


> Not actually interested in the Storm Raven. Doesn't really go with my Salamanders. I'd prefer a Baal Predator, as I cannot stand not having access to a vehicle with such flamey-goodness.


I have a feeling that the Blood Angels are willing to share that vehicle.


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm sure, fluff wise, that they'd share it with their closest brethren. I can see Imperial Fists and White Scars getting a variant. 

Game wise, absolutely no. Unless, you want to allow Thunderfire Cannon, Land Speeder Storm, and relic blades into the BA list.


----------



## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

jaysen said:


> Game wise, absolutely no. Unless, you want to allow Thunderfire Cannon, Land Speeder Storm, and relic blades into the BA list.


why not, none of the above 3 are in any way shape or form game breaking


----------



## Coldshrike (Sep 9, 2011)

Yeah, either than or a similar equivilant would be nice.


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Might as well just pick and choose all the advantages of the various codexes and avoid all the disadvantages. It's called unbalanced and broken. Blood Angels get Stormravens, Furiosos, and Baal class predators, but they don't get many of the choices that other codices get, such as Long Fangs, Thunderwolves, Blood Claws, Venerable Dreadnoughts, Storm Land Speeders, Thunderfire Cannons, 40pt TH/SS terminators, relic blades, etc... That's not even mentioning all the Imperial Armour goodies that cannot be taken in a BA list such as Caestus Assault Rams.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

if GW put out a codex update allowing them that would be cool,you can use them in Apppoc as pretty much anything goes and if you want to include them in house rules thats great too and more power to you, but personally i like that certain troops/vehicles are specific to one force and not another,makes marines less generic and gives them more character and im all for that. Keep wolves wolfey keep BA bloody and keep Smurfs smurfy


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I think there's a difference here because there's no actual alternative, every other thing mentioned that BAs should get have a decent alternative already, where as the stormraven is a pretty unique thing and the closest normal marines can get to it is...erh nothing unless you get the assault ram or a thunderhawk, both cost quite a bit and they are still only forgeworld and not part of the actual codex.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I think there's a difference here because there's no actual alternative, every other thing mentioned that BAs should get have a decent alternative already, where as the stormraven is a pretty unique thing and the closest normal marines can get to it is...erh nothing unless you get the assault ram or a thunderhawk, both cost quite a bit and they are still only forgeworld and not part of the actual codex.


I think that's what makes it good as a Blood Angels only thing, it's even different from the Grey Knight one (different FoC slots as well). Because it is so unique is the reason that everyone should not have it. Blood Angels have some cutting edge vehicles, that's their thing. Just as Dark Angels have their Wings, Space Wolves have their Thunderwolves etc etc


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

From a fluff point of view I fail to see how the Stormraven has not managed to reach the armouries of the other Space Marine chapters.

I mean the BA originally got one from the Grey Knights. This means it is in production somewhere (probably Mars) Since the Mechanicus do not like the BA very much (due to their selfishness in not sharing the STC for faster vehicles which is why they cannot get access to the FW stuff for example the Achilles) and I am sure the mechanicum could slip a couple through to the other chapters rather than JUST allowing the BA and GK's to use them.

I am more than happy to let one take up one of my Heavy Support choices since there is a lot of competition in that particular slot anyways.

In short it does not make sense.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Stephen_Newman said:


> In short it does not make sense.


Yes it does because it tell you why in the codex. They are no mass produced and Blood Angels are early adopters. It's not that it's impossible for other chapters to use them, they just choose not to. It has a role which other chapters use Drop Pods and Land Raiders for, it's just Blood Angels like flying around. That is the fluff reasoning behind it, don't blame anyone else it is YOUR chapter masters who are not using it.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Aramoro said:


> Yes it does because it tell you why in the codex. They are no mass produced and Blood Angels are early adopters. It's not that it's impossible for other chapters to use them, they just choose not to. It has a role which other chapters use Drop Pods and Land Raiders for, it's just Blood Angels like flying around. That is the fluff reasoning behind it, don't blame anyone else it is YOUR chapter masters who are not using it.


Homebrew fluff wise though we haven't even got the option to choose to use it.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Homebrew fluff wise though we haven't even got the option to choose to use it.


You can homebrew a Blood Angels Successor.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Unfortunately the whole Red Thirst etc doesn't work well with my chapters background, the Space Wolves fit it better, as it means I can use the rules for the fenrisian wolves to represent my sabers and the wolf scouts to represent the elite scouting they have, but they are also fairly mobile due to being a white scars successor but they live on a world with dense forests which means they make use of speeders, assault troops and aerial assaults.


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Neither do the my Tigers fit with the Black Death/Red Thirst ethos. However I think a Stormraven in orange with black tiger stripes would look awesome!

Damn my Chapter Masters!!


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

There is nothing stopping you getting a Storm Raven for your Homebrew, no different from trying to use the Cassius Assault Ram after all. Yes it's not tourney legal but you can still use it in friendlies probably. 

I mean Blood Angels can't use Achilles Land Raiders but i've seen a few BA forces with them in anyway.


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Hmmm, I think I'll make a Venerable Furioso for Homebrew. A furioso with the venerable special rule and BS 5 would be nice.


----------



## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Screw the Codex. I field Land Raider Crusaders in my Chaos Army. So if i want to field the Turkey Vulture in my Chaos Army i will, screw the rules.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Achaylus72 said:


> Screw the Codex. I field Land Raider Crusaders in my Chaos Army. So if i want to field the Turkey Vulture in my Chaos Army i will, screw the rules.


'Opponent says no, Achaylus is sad panda'



> Hmmm, I think I'll make a Venerable Furioso for Homebrew. A furioso with the venerable special rule and BS 5 would be nice.


There's a reason BA's don't have the Venerable rule.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I really see no problem with any of the chapters including normal codex chapters using stormravens, they don't break fluff apart from taking away the uniqueness that BA have over it despite them having tons anyway. It's a transport vehicle, it makes no sense for other chapters to not be able to use it, just like it used to be for the crusader when only Black Templars could use it. BA have plenty of unique things already I don't see why they have the right to withhold vehicles like the Stormraven and even Baal Predator from other Space Marine chapters.

Comparing the stormraven to thunderwolfs is just wrong, you could compare the death company to them but not a vehicle.


----------



## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> 'Opponent says no, Achaylus is sad panda'
> 
> 
> 
> There's a reason BA's don't have the Venerable rule.


Yes but happy Panda, because Happy Panda plays Apochalypse and Happy Panda Makes up own Data Sheet. Happy Panda allowed to make up own Data Sheet, So Happy Panda plays with Turkey Vulture.


----------



## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

I have no doubt that when the other loyalist marine dexs get redone that the majority will be able to use the stormraven- it's a huge (and cool) plastic kit* that would likely sell by the buckload.

Fluff wise, should the other chapters get it? Why not? The concept is cool and fitting for marines in general.



*Shame it looks like ass- I've converted the crap out of mine.


----------



## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

As oddjob says I can't imagine the normal marines not getting the model as an option in the next marine codex. Its a big plastic kit that will only make its money back if they sell it to other marine players. 

I dont see how BA players can moan, they have enough unique things to be going on with with out worrying about the loss of a single transport option. I know they will, but there are plenty of options that will never get into the SM Codex that BA, SW and GK have that make then unique and different to use.


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Hmm... Kharne on a Thunder Wolf transported by a Storm Raven = instant win for happy panda.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Comparing the stormraven to thunderwolfs is just wrong, you could compare the death company to them but not a vehicle.


Why not? It's a unique unit to the codex just like Thunderwolves are. I would love to give my Dreadnoughts Venererable or take Long Fangs but I can't as they are not Blood Angel things, just as Storm Ravens are not Salamander things etc. 

There are fluff reasons why other chapters don't have there right there in the Codex so you cannot say that there is no reason. You can't pick a choose which fluff you want and which fluff you don't want when deciding if there's a fluff reason for something.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

There's a massive difference, you have things that fill the roles that Long Fangs and Venerable Dreadnoughts do, the storm raven fills a roll nothing else in the list does. It's also iffy fluff wise and making it open to all races makes perfect sense. 

Maybe the Black Templars should take back the crusader, maybe only Salamanders can have a redeemer, Maybe more should be taken away from BA to give them a reason for having the storm raven over other chapters not having it.

BA already have loads, making the Storm Raven usable by other codices won't make a difference to BA it'll just take a little uniqueness away from them, heck they already have fast vehicles which apparently other chapters can't figure out, they can apparently learn how to fly a lot better to.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

It is supposed to be a rare craft, originally only used by the Grey Knights...


----------



## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

thats funny doe, since the BA got it first despite that

edit: I hope that GW gives the rest of the Marine armies something far cooler then the Stormraven, then tell GKs and BAs they are SoL cuz they have their flyer already


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> There's a massive difference, you have things that fill the roles that Long Fangs and Venerable Dreadnoughts do, the storm raven fills a roll nothing else in the list does. It's also iffy fluff wise and making it open to all races makes perfect sense.


The fluff says you do no use them, you use Land Raider and Drop Pods instead. That is not iffy that is just how it is. They might change that in the future but right now the Fluff says no Storm Ravens.

Blood Angels have nothing which fills the Thunderwolf, Dreadknight, Daemon Prince, Deathwing, Ravenwing, War Walker, Manticore or Monolith roles. So Blood Angels should get all of these as well then, yes?


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, Untold epic heroes, Baal Predator, Furioso, Librarian Dreadnaught, the list goes on.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, Untold epic heroes, Baal Predator, Furioso, Librarian Dreadnaught, the list goes on.


Exactly these are the things which make armies different, these make Blood Angels different from Space Marines , Space Wolves, Dark Angels etc. The Storm Raven is one of those things. I'm glad you agree.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> thats funny doe, since the BA got it first despite that


I was talking about it from a fluff point of view...


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Aramoro said:


> Exactly these are the things which make armies different, these make Blood Angels different from Space Marines , Space Wolves, Dark Angels etc. The Storm Raven is one of those things. I'm glad you agree.


I don't agree because as I said, the Storm Raven fills a role other space marine chapters don't have anything close to replicating. Blood Angels have everything and more, the loss of the Storm Raven being unique wouldn't make much difference and wouldn't detract away from the fact they are blood thirsty animals due to a genetic flaw, no where does the Storm Raven alter that, you still have the furioso, the librarian dread, the fast vehicles, the death company, all the things that put emphasis on the chapters unique blood thirsty nature. 

The Storm Raven is out of place, why do blood angels need to take advantage of a flying vehicle and other chapters like the Raven Guard (Named Storm Raven and it's not even available to the Raven Guard >.<), White Scars and Space Wolves don't? It makes no sense and opening up the vehicle to the rest of the space marines will not only mean they will sell more but also make more sense.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I don't agree because as I said, the Storm Raven fills a role other space marine chapters don't have anything close to replicating. Blood Angels have everything and more, the loss of the Storm Raven being unique wouldn't make much difference and detract away from the fact they are blood thirsty animals due to a genetic flaw, no where does the Storm Raven alter that, you still have the furioso, the librarian dread, the fast vehicles, the death company, all the things that put emphasis on the chapters unique blood thirsty nature.


You must agree as you just made exactly the same point, you should stop changing your stand point as it's confusing then. The Blood Angels don't have anything which fills the role of a Daemon Prince, your point is what exactly, that different armies are different? In the fluff only the Blood Angels and Grey Knights use it, so in the game only they have it. As it says in the fluff the role of the Storm Raven is filled by Drop Pods and Land Raiders in other chapters, so they DO have something which fills the role, Drop Pods and Land Raiders.



Words_of_Truth said:


> The Storm Raven is out of place, why do blood angels need to take advantage of a flying vehicle and other chapters like the Raven Guard (Named Storm Raven and it's not even available to the Raven Guard >.<), White Scars and Space Wolves don't? It makes no sense and opening up the vehicle to the rest of the space marines will not only mean they will sell more but also make more sense.


The Storm Raven is no more out of place than the Baal Predator, they only use it as it matches the fighting style and ethos of the Blood Angels, just like the Baal predator.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm not changing my point, I'm saying Blood Angels don't need a Daemon Prince..(Sanquiror..>.<) They have *alternatives*. Other Chapters don't have alternatives to a storm raven, the whole fluff about other chapters using Drop Pods or Land Raider is idiotic as they don't even perform the same roll (they do if you combine them, so you have a flying land raider...) You're saying the Raven Guard would prefer to drop a pod on a position and then what? Carry it out with them? Would you prefer they rumble in with a Land Raider, kind of defeats the point. Same could be said for any other chapter that values speed and efficiency like the White Scars and homebrew chapters based on it. No other Chapter values the same Ethos as Blood Angels..?

I'm failing to understanding how you're finding my argument confusing and switching stand point, it's been the same all the time. Storm Ravens add nothing to the Blood Angels apart from giving them an awesome additional vehicle. It doesn't build on their Red Thirst, Black Rage character, it simply gives them another option of transport which is pointless when they have fast vehicles already. There's no change in my point here, I'm simply stating it doesn't really add to their character it's just "there", it could easily be just "there" with every other chapter.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Other Chapters use Thunderhawks in the fluff...


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Doelago said:


> Other Chapters use Thunderhawks in the fluff...


Only because nothing else is apparently available ;-)...You give me a £41 Thunderhawk and I'll shut up.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Only because nothing else is apparently available ;-)...You give me a £41 Thunderhawk and I'll shut up.


*makes one out of paper*

Here you go.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I'm not changing my point, I'm saying Blood Angels don't need a Daemon Prince..(Sanquiror..>.<) They have *alternatives*. Other Chapters don't have alternatives to a storm raven, the whole fluff about other chapters using Drop Pods or Land Raider is idiotic as they don't even perform the same roll (they do if you combine them, so you have a flying land raider...)


But blood Angels don't have anything that fills the role of a Daemon Prince, that is your whole argument in it's entirety. 

Fluff says they do perform the same role, as this is about the fluff you are wrong, flat out fucking wrong. 100% totally wrong, I cannot emphasise just how much you are wrong as the fluff about Storm Raven directly tells us they use Drop Pods and Land Raiders to achieve the same results. It doesn't matter how stupid you think that fluff is, it is still just true.




Words_of_Truth said:


> You're saying the Raven Guard would prefer to drop a pod on a position and then what? Carry it out with them? Would you prefer they rumble in with a Land Raider, kind of defeats the point. Same could be said for any other chapter that values speed and efficiency like the White Scars and homebrew chapters based on it. No other Chapter values the same Ethos as Blood Angels..?


I am not saying this, the fluff says this, thus the fluff is right and you are still wrong. Raven guard are pretty stealthy so i can see why they avoid using and enormously noisy huge flying tank to get places. I don't make these choices though, the fluff writers do and they did. End result Blood Angels and Grey Knights use them, other Marines don't.




Words_of_Truth said:


> I'm failing to understanding how you're finding my argument confusing and switching stand point, it's been the same all the time. Storm Ravens add nothing to the Blood Angels apart from giving them an awesome additional vehicle. It doesn't build on their Red Thirst, Black Rage character, it simply gives them another option of transport which is pointless when they have fast vehicles already. There's no change in my point here, I'm simply stating it doesn't really add to their character it's just "there", it could easily be just "there" with every other chapter.


It's not just there, Blood Angels have it because more than anyone else they refuse to give up their mastery of the skies even for a moment, unlike other chapters. That is pretty much word for word from the fluff. Your argument is confusing because you seem to think some units add character but some doing based on some arbitrary divider that exists solely in your head. For me the Storm Raven adds plenty of character to my Blood Angels force as I maintain my mastery of the skies.


----------



## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

like I said before, I cant wait for a much cooler, stronger, Ariel vehicle to come out avalable to everyone but GKs and BAs which wont use it cuz they are too busy with their "storm ravens"


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Aramoro said:


> But blood Angels don't have anything that fills the role of a Daemon Prince, that is your whole argument in it's entirety.
> 
> Fluff says they do perform the same role, as this is about the fluff you are wrong, flat out fucking wrong. 100% totally wrong, I cannot emphasise just how much you are wrong as the fluff about Storm Raven directly tells us they use Drop Pods and Land Raiders to achieve the same results. It doesn't matter how stupid you think that fluff is, it is still just true.
> 
> ...


So basically you're rigidly sticking to the very very weak fluff as to why Blood Angels have the Storm Raven and fail to see the benefits other chapters would gain by having the option of using the Storm Raven? You actually believe the Storm Raven adds more to the whole Blood Angels character compared to the likes of the Death Company and Furioso Dreads inc Librarian Dreads? 

There is an alternative to a daemon Prince..it's called a badass Blood Angel HQ that can go toe to toe and sometimes cut it to pieces, tell me what vehicle within the actual codices that can provide heavy support, fly, carry a dreadnaught and carry 12 models all at once?


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Why do people even argue with Aramoro? He's the most consistantly correct person I've ever seen on a forum.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Because I happen to think his view is incorrect in this case.


----------



## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Ravner298 said:


> Why do people even argue with Aramoro? He's the most consistantly correct person I've ever seen on a forum.


in this case, its about "fluff" versus utility.

Utility wise, GW should give a 'flyer' to the other SM armies. not necessarily needing to be the storm Pidgeon, but it would be the optimal idea for GW to make more money off those kits.


----------



## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

And if the Storm Raven is such an integral part of what makes BAs "unique"... why does it only suddenly appear in their latest codex? Most of the other "special" units (Longfangs, Death Company, whatever) have been around for quite awhile, and ARE "special" to their home armies. The Storm Raven, irregardless of paint job, is a piece of gear. It should be allowed across the SM spectrum just like the Land Raider variants...


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

The game follows the fluff. The storm raven gunship variant is only accessable to Gks, who gave a few to BAs back in the day. Your counter arguement is based solely around your own personal belief that the fluff is weak and that vangard, speedy and sneaky based marine chapters should have access to it as well and are more justified in having it than BAs. It just doesn't work that way.


----------



## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Ravner298 said:


> The game follows the fluff. The storm raven gunship variant is only accessable to Gks, who gave a few to BAs back in the day. Your counter arguement is based solely around your own personal belief that the fluff is weak and that vangard, speedy and sneaky based marine chapters should have access to it as well and are more justified in having it than BAs. It just doesn't work that way.


I dont hear anyone saying BAs 'shouldnt' have it, but that BAs and GKs shouldnt be the only ones with it.


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Not shouldn't, just that other chapters background justifies them having it more.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> I dont hear anyone saying BAs 'shouldnt' have it, but that BAs and GKs shouldnt be the only ones with it.


Yes, they should. But they aren`t, cause every Blood Angels successor also has access to them.


----------



## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

Achaylus72 said:


> Screw the Codex. I field Land Raider Crusaders in my Chaos Army. So if i want to field the Turkey Vulture in my Chaos Army i will, screw the rules.


I'd love to do that, but wouldn't it be unbalanced? Part of the fluff of Chaos is that they generally don't have the newest interations of gear, and stuffing 12-16 zerkers in the new variants is...quite murderiffic, especially if you ass Daemon Possession, something loyalists don't have.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

If it wasn't for the fact of the Black Rage etc I'd probably use the Blood Angels rules just so I can field nearly a fully airborne army tbh, although I still like the idea of actually having sabers...caught between two codices


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Words_of_Truth said:


> If it wasn't for the fact of the Black Rage etc I'd probably use the Blood Angels rules just so I can field nearly a fully airborne army tbh, although I still like the idea of actually having sabers...caught between two codices


Well do you want some puppies running around or do you want a giant flying tank transport? Maybe have 2 lists, same custom chapter, one satisfies the vangard aspect with scouts and sabers, the other the 'fist' with storm ravens.



> especially if you ass Daemon Possession, something loyalists don't have


except GK /grumble


----------



## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

i would rather have libby & chappy dreads (as HQs) instead of the storm pigeon for the other marine codexs.

it could fit in the CSM dex nicely though, just put it in the FA section.


----------



## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

All this debate would vanish in an instant in GW released a plastic Thunderhawk... :laugh:


----------



## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Deneris said:


> All this debate would vanish in an instant in GW released a plastic Thunderhawk... :laugh:


/agree

you hit the nail on the head with that statement deneris


----------



## Mundungu (Jul 23, 2010)

After seeing that they banked so heavily on crafting such a large model, and how many my local shop was sent I predicted every marine codex would have the option to take one by their next codex. Not so sure about CSM, but certainly every loyalist will. It's simple economics.


----------



## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Deneris said:


> All this debate would vanish in an instant in GW released a plastic Thunderhawk... :laugh:


Hell lets go the whole hog add a Plastic Warhound Titan in the mix and many a nerd will be creaming themselves, if they ever bring out either i'd certainly would save up and get a few for my army.


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

All this pissing and moaning, why don't you just play a Blood Angels army and stop whining about how your current army doesn't have BA goodies?

I play BA, Space Wolves, and Imperial Fists, thinking about starting a Mentors army also. And no, I don't want the dexes mixed up and homogenized. I like them the way they are. Do you see me pleading to have Dante given orbital bombardment like every other chapter master?


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

It's all about balance.... you get good stuff, they give you bad stuff to balance it out.

In earlier dexes the Blood Angels had free furious charge, but the black rage D6 role to randomly move balanced it out, because it was unwise to take devastators.

The BA scouts were great CC'ers, but you couldn't take sniper rifles or bolters. Balance.

You got Death Company for the cost of a regular trooper, but it was random how many you'd get, and they could come from any model, to include your expensive terminators.

In the current dex, they changed it up, you no longer get all those benefits. Instead, you get death company dreads, furioso librarians, and stormravens. The balancing part is the lack of orbital bombardment, storm land speeders, venerable dreadnoughts, TH/SS terminators cost +5pts, no 6str relic blades, all the characters are super expensive now, death company are so expensive there's no point taking them, etc.... etc...

If you take the goodies, you gotta pay the piper and take the balancing badness, as well. You can't have everything. That's freaking life.

Edit: the Warhound and Thunderhawk would not serve, since they are Apocalypse only.


----------



## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Using fluff as an argument for something not being included in a dex is as pointless as trying to stop the tide coming in. GW write the fluff, and they can change it whenever they want or make it as silly as they want. The BA necron 'lets be friends for a day' episode is a good example.

From a commercial point of view its too expensive to create such a big model for what is only a subset of the marines. They will release it for other chapters to make the most money from the mould.

BA have plenty of unique things. They have characters that are more than a match one to one against a Deamon prince (unlike SM who dont this). They are heavy assault troops that can benefit from feel no pain, there are super fast vehicles. They have some of the best dreadnoughts that are available to no other marine chapters. There are more than enough toys to keep a BA player happy and different from any other chapter.

I will look forward to a very similar model being available to all marines when the new dex is written


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

New Dex won't be for a while though right?


----------



## reapercake (Sep 14, 2011)

I agree i think the SR is just another vehicle, where as the Death Company, thunder wolves etc are chapter specific. An ultramarine just wouldn't look right perched onto of a giant wolf! :laugh:


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> New Dex won't be for a while though right?


You're probably looking at a year for a new Codex I would guess. Then it'll be Storm Ravens all round.

The mistake people always make is looking at the Space Marine books as all one big book and saying 'But it's all Imperial so there's no reason why not!' If Blood Angels were a different human faction this would never even be considered it's because people think 'ah well they're just Space Marines'. The different Codex's represent different factions, with different rules and different equipment. I would love Chimeras on my Blood Angels army, they're Imperial after all so why not.


----------



## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I understand what your saying Aramoro, but there are a couple of things which you may want to take into account. All marines get Rhinos, Razorbacks, and all 3 variants of Landraider. Adding a stormraven to this isnt much of a leap, not like giving a Chimera to marines who already have other land based transports. Also the IG do get the flying fortress of a vehicle making them currently more mobile than a majority of marines, which seems perverse. So why give marines that flyer? No wait they already have a flyer available in the stormraven kit. 

Why would GW not allow SM, there biggest selling army, not to take a flying transport? I assume it will not be kitted out the same as the BA or GK variant. 

I understand the desire to be different but I think its only a matter of time before we can all select one in a marine army (although maybe not SW as thier codex is still new, sorry lads). Its happened before with the crusader so I think its going to happen again.


----------



## reapercake (Sep 14, 2011)

Achaylus72 said:


> Hell lets go the whole hog add a Plastic Warhound Titan in the mix and many a nerd will be creaming themselves, if they ever bring out either i'd certainly would save up and get a few for my army.





Deneris said:


> All this debate would vanish in an instant in GW released a plastic Thunderhawk... :laugh:


Whimper whimper: want!! Also want a warlord! and a fang would be nice lol!


----------



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

My Space Wolves don't need that pansy flying machine when we have good, practical bikes! granted, you could carry more mead in it but they'd all be arguing over who gets to steer the damn thing...


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

TheReverend said:


> My Space Wolves don't need that pansy flying machine when we have good, practical bikes! granted, you could carry more mead in it but they'd all be arguing over who gets to steer the damn thing...


:laugh: :rofl: Now, where the hell is the +rep button?


----------



## Alex1706 (Sep 15, 2011)

Looking at it from GWs perspective, I think it is neither a fluff nor a balance issue, but a nice opportunity to boost SR sales.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Could I use the Storm Raven as another vehicle? Like a Land Raider?


----------



## Alex1706 (Sep 15, 2011)

The Storm Raider, nice idea


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I mean it could count as a Land Raider Crusade right? Has the right armaments, downside is the line of sight though.


----------



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Put the Raider on a flying base?


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm on about if I wanted to use the Space Wolves rules (who can't presently use the SR or probably when everyone else can due to how new their codex is) then alternatively I could use it as something else? Mayeb put it on a low flying base or something and use it as a Crusader?


----------



## Alex1706 (Sep 15, 2011)

In a friendly game, I would let you do it, but the difference in size to an actual LRC sure is a problem.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Meh..guess I'll just wait and see.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

humakt said:


> I understand what your saying Aramoro, but there are a couple of things which you may want to take into account. All marines get Rhinos, Razorbacks, and all 3 variants of Landraider. Adding a stormraven to this isnt much of a leap, not like giving a Chimera to marines who already have other land based transports. Also the IG do get the flying fortress of a vehicle making them currently more mobile than a majority of marines, which seems perverse. So why give marines that flyer? No wait they already have a flyer available in the stormraven kit.


All Marines have Rhinos, but not all Marines have Fast Rhinos. My problem is not with people wanting it etc. It's people saying there is no fluff reason not to have it, there is it says so in the book. That will probably change but it is what it is right now.




humakt said:


> Why would GW not allow SM, there biggest selling army, not to take a flying transport? I assume it will not be kitted out the same as the BA or GK variant.


I have no doubt that they will at some point when they bring out the new Codex.


----------



## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Aramoro said:


> I have no doubt that they will at some point when they bring out the new Codex.


Yeah it's defiantly gonna happen in the end.

Fluffwise means nothing to GW,
the LandRaider Crusader was originally only (0-1) in an SM army except for Black Templars who designed the variant.

Not so rare now though.

GW will want to sell more Thunder Guppies and are unlikely to offer any fluff for why they will become available.


----------



## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Viscount Vash said:


> GW will want to sell more Thunder Guppies and are unlikely to offer any fluff for why they will become available.


Im sure they will come up with something. Maybe the Ultrmarines wouldn't come to the Grey Knights My Little Pony Birthday party if they didnt get a the new flying machine that they gave to their BFF, the Blood Angels. So the GK's gave in because the blood angles always bring along thier new BFF the Necrons, who the GK's think are a bit boring.


----------



## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Na GKs are just jealous coz the Crons might beat them in the shiniest hienie competition.


----------



## Alex1706 (Sep 15, 2011)

I think they are going to use the same lame fluff they used for the LRC.

Something on the lines of "Initially, only the BA and GK used stormravens, but as news of the stormravens success spread, other chapters requested information and bla bla".

Fluff does mean something to GW in the sense that they are going to bend it and use it to boost sales volumes. And why not, they are a company with shareholders after all...


----------



## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Other chapters probably won't be able to deploy via skies of blood. They better allow something new in the BA codex to make up for the loss of the stormraven.... say, relic blades or Land Speeder Storms.


----------



## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Just for the absolute heck of it i'll create an Apocalypse Data Sheet to allow These Thrice Damned Turkey Vultures to go over to Chaos, now i feel all warm and fuzzy, i have to get some for my Chaos Army.:biggrin:


----------



## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I dont understand why BA's dont get Land speeder storms, and it would seem fair to let them have those. Not sure about relic blades though. You dont want BA to be too close to normal marines, and Marines should have a one or 2 commander choices that are different.


----------



## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

humakt said:


> I dont understand why BA's dont get Land speeder storms, and it would seem fair to let them have those. Not sure about relic blades though. You dont want BA to be too close to normal marines, and Marines should have a one or 2 commander choices that are different.


I think it all has something to do with that those at GW want to keep BA and 2nd founding chapters that are linked to BA unique, maybe they shun the use of Land Speeder Storms, like some chapters shun Rhinos but heavily deploy Drop Pods, and once landed are Space Marine Infantry.


----------

