# Thoughts about Chaos



## LordofFenris (Mar 10, 2010)

So, after a long hiatus from 40k I have returned. I play Crimson Fists solely right now and I am currently building a Khorne Daemonkin army and have run across a few things.

What happened to Chaos? They appear to have so many dead entries in their codices. I also noticed they still do not have stock non Forgeworld drop pods.

What are everyone else thoughts on Chaos now? Any good rumors I may not have heard? Is there a new codex coming?

I am so behind. Thanks!


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

The state of chaos is poor at the moment. Basically you have to cherry pick between daemonkin, core codex, cs and the black supliment, and daemons. To stand a half chance.
Unfortunately csm are just to points expensive for sub standard marines. 
And the rumour mill is saying next year for a new dex. 
Don't get me wrong you can win with chaos, you just have to work very hard.


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## Ravion (Nov 3, 2010)

Yep I have a hard time winning in normal games but not with ZM games. I've play 6 ZM games and won 3 of them. The other 3 were against 30k Iron warriors and 1 game of 40k Iron Hands and even then I gave them hard time.


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

Not managed to play zone mortalis yet.
I've managed to beat necrons the last couple of times I have played them. But they were all very dull games. Fortunately I managed to kill his mobile units. But necrons just don't die it's very frustrating.


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## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

My advice is to play chaos for love, not for money.

Chaos can be good at elite infantry - Nurgle lists excel at tarpitting so long as they can move to the right spot and don't get instant death killed.

Khornate lists... just do Codex Khorne Daemon Kin, it actually works that way.

Slaneesh has excellent mid-range firepower and can be alright in assault, but still suffers from 'mediocre at best' in each category.

Tzeench lists are rather competitive, with mass daemon summoning and a conspicuous absence of rubric marines as they don't really add anything much...

Crimson Slaughter have some cool mixed formations, such as the cultist/helbrute combo and some of the daemon engine combinations.

Black Legion has nothing I am aware of to recommend itself except awesome fluff (Thanks ADB!)

Combining flavours has problems thanks to the mediocrity of units. They are elite infantry or capable SM or Daemon vehicles, but putting them to good use takes practice and skill, and setting them against their counterparts from other codexes ends up with dead chaos marines.

Interesting times!


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

LordofFenris said:


> So, after a long hiatus from 40k I have returned. I play Crimson Fists solely right now and I am currently building a Khorne Daemonkin army and have run across a few things.
> 
> What happened to Chaos? They appear to have so many dead entries in their codices. I also noticed they still do not have stock non Forgeworld drop pods.
> 
> ...


Take an MEQ army that's still designed for 4th edition, while paying 5th edition points costing for everything, then try not to cry too much when you realise it's now 7.5ed and the game left you behind about 8-9 years ago!
Oh, and enjoying paying the lovely "Chaos Tax" while trying to assemble your army... Most of your units are still Failcast/hybrid kits, certain units still don't even have an actual kit yet, and the bare handful of plastic kits we do have only come with barely 50% of your basic options, if you're lucky.

Now to add insult to injury, realise that Loyalist scum do everything we're supposed to be good at and that defines us, only about 100x better.

Welcome to the misery that is the Chaos cesspool of "GW hates villains and you're whole point for existing is to make Little Timmy feel awesome about his ultra powerful Speesh Muhreeens".

And for even more lols, our model range, as awful as it is, is now slowly disappearing! (though hopefully this means that the long overdue purge & re-boot is now only 8-10 months away!)

The one thing that Chaos players do better than everyone else however, is that we Forge the Narrative harder & more epically than anyone else, since we're now every bit as spiteful, embittered, and hateful of those Loyalist ***** as our background says we are!:good:


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## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

experiment 626 said:


> And for even more lols, our model range, as awful as it is, is now slowly disappearing! (though hopefully this means that the long overdue purge & re-boot is now only 8-10 months away!)
> 
> The one thing that Chaos players do better than everyone else however, is that we Forge the Narrative harder & more epically than anyone else, since we're now every bit as spiteful, embittered, and hateful of those Loyalist ***** as our background says we are!:good:


Ahem.

Hello heretic scum. Can I interest you in supporting the Ecclesiarchy? Benefits of a donation include being made of strong metal instead of puny plastics, no new models for over a decade, half of your old range including your only transport disappearing from sale. Donate now, and we'll throw in no AA at all to shoot down those Emperor-damned Helldrakes.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Shandathe said:


> Ahem.
> 
> Hello heretic scum. Can I interest you in supporting the Ecclesiarchy? Benefits of a donation include being made of strong metal instead of puny plastics, no new models for over a decade, half of your old range including your only transport disappearing from sale. Donate now, and we'll throw in no AA at all to shoot down those Emperor-damned Helldrakes.


 While Sisters are easily the most hard-done by army, they've also always been a 'fringe army', similar to the likes of Catachans, Inquisition, Harlies, Genesneaker Cults, etc...

Chaos on the other hand is probably the single most important faction to the entire setting, as it is THE antagonist around which the entire setting revolves... It is the ultimate threat to absolutely everyone. The Old Ones were devoured by the Warp Entities spawned during the 'War in Heaven'. The Necrons went into stasis in part because of the birthing of the Gods. The birth of Slaanesh crushed the Eldar empire of old, and she remains their inevitable doom. It was the Chaos Gods who broke the power of the Emperor and the fledgling human Imperium, and now doomed humanity to a slow & inevitable demise. Even the Tyranids are not immune to the mutating effects of daemonic warp-plagues!
Everyone has reason to fear the Chaos Gods and their servants, and yet, this fight is also a futile one, as Chaos can never be destroyed - the inevitable victory can only be delayed.

Chaos Marines are the most recognisable face of that force, and are considered one of the 'Big 4' armies alongside Loyalist Marines, Orks & Eldar.

Both armies are actually to the point of needing full-on 100% overhauls, but guess what? I'm sorry to say that CSM's are simply far more important than Sisters of Bitter, and always will be.
40k can exist fine if Sisters go the way of Squats.
The setting itself would need a huge re-boot/overhaul if Chaos Marines were to suddenly disappear!


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

I play Chaos Marines, Chaos Daemons and Daemonkin - Honestly, you can stand up to pretty much anything bar the toughest tournament lists with a combination of the above. You can make some awesome fluffy lists, and you have a lot of variety in your armies.

Chaos Marines are in a bit of a tough spot, but they can work great as allies or together with the other armies as allies. They are a bit old in their rules though, so they will be a tad begind the other out there.

Chaos Daemons are completely fine and can be a very fun army to play. You can go monster mash, swarm, psyker heavy and all in between. You can field 4 different lists that don't even feel like the same army if you do it well enough.

Khorne Daemonkin are, what the title of the army suggests, the epitome of Khorne. It's across the board as fast as you can and kill crap. If you loose something along the way, hey it doesn't matter, as you can use that loss to buff the rest of your army.

By using Imperial Armor 13 from Forgeworld, you will have access to droppods via the Dreadclaw, if that's your thing. You also have access to knights from Forgeworld. 

In short, if you love Chaos (Like I do) you have plenty of options to choose from - And it's still funny as all hell :good:


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

experiment 626 said:


> While Sisters are easily the most hard-done by army, they've also always been a 'fringe army', similar to the likes of Catachans, Inquisition, Harlies, Genesneaker Cults, etc...


I'm not going to disagree that CSM are a core faction, but just because something is a fringe faction on the table (usually because it's poorly or not supported leading to little or no real way to play it, like the old The Lost and the Damned armies) doesn't make them a fringe in the setting. The Ministorum is one of the richest and most influental organizations in the Imperium with massively deep pockets for example and really should reflect more on the table, not less. 

That aside I don't really know if we need a measuring contest on who has it worse and how bad X army has it is more important than how bad Y army has it. It sucks for everyone and I don't think we need to spend time pretending it doesn't.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Heh, at least Sisters players can still buy their basic models!
Chaos Marines can't even do that now...

5 weeks and counting now since the CSM kit has been "Sold Out", while Possessed have been gone for nearly 3 months! (hilariously, they were "Sold Out/No Longer Available" about a whole month _before_ the "new" Crimson Slaughter supplement released, and every single formation requires at least one unit of the buggers!)

And by extention, without the basic CSM kit, we also can longer build Noise Marines or Thousand Sons either! (though the latter is rumored to be getting a new plastic kit "sometime after summer"...)

And no, *this is NOT a simple reboxing w/32mm bases*!
GW already did that as a stealth 'release' shortly after they released the Khornekin codex.

It's far more likely that the ancient & almost certainly decrepit molds for the basic CSM kit are no longer usable... The quality of the models has been utterly horrible for about 3-4+ years now, with miscasts & distorted details being considered 'normal'.
Unfortunately, I doubt that if it is indeed the molds that are gonners, that GW will spend money to replace such a relic of a kit with new molds. Probably more likely that they'd be happy to simply leave the CSM line in tatters, and just continue running down existing stock until the supposed Chaos overhaul rumored to be coming in mid 2017...


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)




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## mic1402 (Jun 4, 2010)

@scscofield I'm afraid do not see the point in your post besides being generally obnoxious. 

Back On topic, Stories need good villains, and unfortunately chaos has suffered good old villain decay. On both TT and in Fluff. It is a bit odd how three of the main "villain" factions are currently the weakest though (Chaos,Orks,nids) 

I Personally was thinking of making a chaos marine/Traitor storm troopers army. I'm still trying to figure how it would work with the rules however. Also anyone one have any links to any Nicely made CSM armies?


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Simple really, his sky is falling CSM is getting squatted shit is old before he even posted it. CSM has some of the newer models in the whole line of 40k models. They are not getting squated, and more likely all those 'sold out' kits are being replaced with something new.


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## mic1402 (Jun 4, 2010)

But he never said they where going to be squatted; he said they might be neglected for some time, which is different. That's happened to a number of factions before. Besides GW recently canned two entire lines, so i can't blame people for being apprehensive.
Though i would say that Chaos with formations and allies can at least make somewhat workable lists. Which is more than some factions can say.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

In this thread, nope, he started another whole thread for that.


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

scscofield said:


> They are not getting squated, and more likely all those 'sold out' kits are being replaced with something new.



I agree with you in that they are most likely getting something new.

But his comment on Chaos being squatted was very clearly a joke. Now, either you didn't get that the obvious joke was obvious, or you're deliberately taking it seriously as an excuse to be obnoxious towards him.
I suspect the latter since you're clearly intelligent enough to be able to understand a joke (especially when the OP actually writes below his post that it was sarcasm)

This is usually a pretty friendly forum. I agree, the whining about Chaos is a tad old now and it can get frustrating to read the same arguments over and over again, but such arguments can either be ignored or intelligently disproven (as you have done with your factual remarks about newer models)

Perhaps a new thread should be made and moved to Off Topic. We could name it, 'Pointless Chaos VENTING'.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

mic1402 said:


> Though i would say that Chaos with formations and allies can at least make somewhat workable lists. Which is more than some factions can say.


Which factions?


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

scscofield said:


> Simple really, his sky is falling CSM is getting squatted shit is old before he even posted it. CSM has some of the newer models in the whole line of 40k models. They are not getting squated, and more likely all those 'sold out' kits are being replaced with something new.


Chaos Marines are without doubt the oldest model line after Sisters of Bitter.

Most of our stuff is from the early 2000's.
Our late 4th ed release stuff was from 2007, and of those kits, one was just the Loyalist kit with a couple spiky sprues thrown into it, Possessed are now 'Sold Out', the basic CSM squad was just the same original kit with a couple added heads and a new 'command sprue' that still missed out half the squad's basic options, and the Terminator kit may as well not even exist it's so bad!

But yes, please tell us how Chaos players have been so spoiled rotten, and are just rolling in new kits that get re-done every other edition, while getting heaps of brand new options (which are stolen from Imperials obviously!)
Oh wait, that's the golden child, over-entitled bratty Speeesh Muhreens who get that treatment.

Loyalists have had more new kits than Chaos Marine have btw...
Chaos since 2012 has gotten;
- Forge/Maulerfiend
- Hellchicken
- Raptors/Warptalons
- Hellbrute
- Mutifails

Loyalists on the other hand have had;
- Tactical Marines
- Centurions (which totally aren't Oblits x100!)
- Sternguard
- Vanguard
- Assault Marines
- Devastators
- Hunter/Stalker
- Stormtalon (which also just got re-released with a brand new variant, because... "reasons!")
- a couple million or so special release HQ models
- yet another needless Land Raider variant that's likely to become standard come their next unnecessary codex update... (while our lone version, which happens to be the overall _worst_ variant, can't even function at a basic level)

Yep, gotta love all that obvious Chaos favouritism we've gotten! And talk about how game crushingly OP we are - man, those poor Loyalist saps stand absolutely no chance against our cheesy Helldrakes & Plaguemarines!


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Refer to the statement that you quoted for my response, hasn't changed yet.


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