# New HH novella - The Lion.......



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Everyone else got the email from BL??? Says it starts in the new Hammer and Bolter, and its called 'The Lion'

Well holy fuckstick I'm buying that H&B now! Though it's quite likely an extract from 'The Primarchs' I'm still getting it!


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

OH SHIT.... I should have bought it but I already got many stories that are part of it. I think I feel like I'm being raped if I buy them again. Please tell me what you thought about the short story when you are done.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Uh, damn. Seems I will have to buy the magazine.


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## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

Same ill end up buying the magazine now, though it will probs be in The Primarchs but still first chance to read is still a first chance.


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## Dagmire (Oct 9, 2008)

looks great, i like H&B


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu! First the anniversary mini, then Know No Fear, then Lone Wolf, then Kingdoms of Amalur, then Mass Effect 3, and now this? God dammit, college kids need to eat entertainment industry.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Holy shit! Major spoilers for Part 1 ahead.



The Lion kills Nemiel! The Lions ship has been boarded by deamons and a Librarian uses his powers to kill them, Corswain(of Savage Weapons) notes that their weapons could not harm them, the Librarians powers being the only way. Nemiel and intially the Lion look as if they will punish/execute the Librarian for breaking the edict, but when the Lion sees that only they can fight the deamons he orders them to forget the Edict(for now). Nemiel refuses to follow the order(to let the other Librarians use their power), The Lions says his authority is absolute, Nemiel then counters the Emperors authority is higher and then without warning the Lion behead Nemiel!! Holy fuck, crazy way to end it! He seems to regret what he did only a moment later, but still. 

Another thing this part has emphasised is how much the Lion no longer trusts anyone it seems, especially due to Perturabo(see Fallen Angels). He doesn't trust the Iron Hands anymore(they are heading to a battle between the Iron Hands and Death Guard) and even has one of his own captains put on watch for quite minor reasons. Kurzes words in Savage Weapons seem to have really hit the Lion home.

I will say though, whilst it worked for the shock factor, killing Nemiel off like that was a terrible decision imo. He was the main character of Fallen Angels, a major supporting character in Descent of Angels. And now he's just dead, like that, with no real input in the story till the end. There goes any confrontation we might have been hoping for between him and Zahariel. Very poor decision I think, could have used any random character tbh.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> I will say though, whilst it worked for the shock factor, killing Nemiel off like that was a terrible decision imo. He was the main character of Fallen Angels, a major supporting character in Descent of Angels. And now he's just dead, like that, with no real input in the story till the end. There goes any confrontation we might have been hoping for between him and Zahariel. Very poor decision I think, could have used any random character tbh.





What I don't understand is why the Lion killed him. Nemiel had barely uttered a sentence of disagreement - which would have been expected anyway given that the Lion was breaking a direct edict of the Emperor. Hopefully the remainder of the novella will expand on this and justify the Lion's overly rash action...

The Lion killed one of his own Astartes for no reason, and even seemed to relish the act (_"...For a moment he [Corswain] saw a vision of satisfaction, the Lion’s eyes gleaming as he stared at his handiwork."_) - what is going on?!


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Agreed. I hope this novella gets better, because at the moment I'm really not liking the direction they're taking with Jonson. And I'm going to call Nemiels death one of the most pointless and crappy decisions of the series so far. How could they waste such an imo important character with alot of scope for plot(Caliban-Zahariel) like that.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Agreed. I hope this novella gets better, because at the moment I'm really not liking the direction they're taking with Jonson. And I'm going to call Nemiels death one of the most pointless and crappy decisions of the series so far. How could they waste such an imo important character with alot of scope for plot(Caliban-Zahariel) like that.


I am going to give it the benefit of the doubt at the moment, after all that was only a third of the whole novella.


But I agree, as it stands I do not like the off-hand execution of Nemiel for no apparent reason.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I'm gonna wait for the big release, but this time I will pre-order it from Black Library instead of waiting at my local store. They cant be trusted too much as they never know exactly when they will get BL in store.


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

I'll wait for the eventual printing of it. I hate eReaders and prefer realReaders.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Who wrote the short story? Anyone know?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> Who wrote the short story? Anyone know?


Which short story?


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> Who wrote the short story? Anyone know?


Lol, nevermind. Actually... I totally understand why now. I thought it was ADB. LOL. So now the Dark Angels could totally do a 360. The only thing that bothers me is that the Heresy team should have allowed him to write the first novel.

@ CotE- The Lion


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

ckcrawford said:


> Lol, nevermind. Actually... I totally understand why now. I thought it was ADB. LOL. So now the Dark Angels could totally do a 360. The only thing that bothers me is that the Heresy team should have allowed him to write the first novel.
> 
> @ CotE- The Lion


You mean a 180, surely? A 360 would just result in a lovely twirl but no discernable change.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I haven't read this, but the decision to kill Nemiel doesn't sit well with me

Who's the author btw?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I just finished reading this, and while I feel that the Lion overreacted, I do not entirely disagree that Nemiel was wrong. He disobeyed a direct order, and if he would have had his way than the ship could have likely fallen to the creatures. 

On a side note: Did the Lion really just Judo Chop Nemiels' head off.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> I just finished reading this, and while I feel that the Lion overreacted, I do not entirely disagree that Nemiel was wrong. He disobeyed a direct order, and if he would have had his way than the ship could have likely fallen to the creatures.
> 
> On a side note: Did the Lion really just Judo Chop Nemiels' head off.




Nemiel was still correct in what he was saying though. I'm still just really irritated with the decision, I cant emphasise enough what a stupid decision it was(imo), I just can't see where the logic came in to bring a prime character from two previous novels in, give him all of about 3 lines and then kill him off, especially in the way it was done. Nemiel seemed to be quite close to the Lion as of Fallen Angels end. Whilst I don't think they can even begin to salvage killing the character off for me, I dearly hope that Jonson spends a good amount of time in the rest of the novella regretting and tormenting himself over such a colossally shit decision.

And yes, it would appear he judo chopped him.


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## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

It's been asked and haven't seen the answer but the author is Gav Thorpe


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

I'll be waiting for _The Primarchs_ to read this, and personally i'm much more interested in the Curze story but here are my thoughts on what i've read here.




The Lion kills Nemiel? Ok that needs some real explanation. Nemiel should have met his end at Zahariel's hands, I thought that was the entire idea behind Nemiel leaving with the Lion and Zahariel being left behind with the future Fallen. So now it seems like that plot has been destroyed and the hope of an epic confrontation in the third Dark Angels novel. So now Zahariel may as well just be any other Fallen, rather than confronting his brother and giving a much more personal side to the Fallen. Not a good move in my opinion.

And the Lion's actions there seem more reminiscent of Angron and Konrad Curze. Though at least they are mad and have some kind of flimsy excuse for it, and even this seems a bit beyond them. The Lion murdered a loyal warrior for uttering a dissenting opinion. Nemiel would have had to capitulate on the decision since ultimately its up to the Lion. And if he still didn't like it he could just tell the Emperor about it. The Emperor would have either sanctioned the Lion or told Nemiel the way it is and ordered his compliance with the orders.

I don't like what i'm seeing thus far but I do have hope that the story will salvage this. And this is why.



ADB said:


> I loved The Lion, man.
> I just f**king loved it, start to finish. I think it’s the best thing you’ve ever written.
> Lots of manlove to you, if I didn’t have a baby on the way already I would want to bear yours,*
> 
> Aaron


If ADB loves it enough to be willing to defy genetics and bear Gav Thorpe a brooding baby with an abnormally deep voice, then its got to be good. That and I like Thorpe's work so i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until I read the whole thing. So i'll wait for the whole thing before pronouncing judgement upon it.




LotN


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## Chaosveteran (Aug 29, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> I'll be waiting for _The Primarchs_ to read this, and personally i'm much more interested in the Curze story but here are my thoughts on what i've read here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Isn't Zahariel the 40k Cypher?


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> If ADB loves it enough to be willing to defy genetics and bear Gav Thorpe a brooding baby with an abnormally deep voice, then its got to be good. That and I like Thorpe's work so i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until I read the whole thing. So i'll wait for the whole thing before pronouncing judgement upon it.
> [/spoiler]
> 
> 
> LotN


The last sentence has an asterisk, remember. 

I do love _The Lion_, though. It's fantastic. And me saying I really like someone else's 40K work is a rare thing (not out of dickishness, mind you).


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Chaosveteran said:


> Isn't Zahariel the 40k Cypher?




Who the hell knows? Cypher hasn't been mentioned in ages, and I don't think he's ever displayed psychic ability. I imagine Cypher might be given some hints in the third Dark Angels book but until then, again who knows?



LotN


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## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> I'll be waiting for _The Primarchs_ to read this, and personally i'm much more interested in the Curze story but here are my thoughts on what i've read here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Total agreement, im currently nor too happy with Nemial being bunked off for something so lame but if ADB loved it so much then im goung to go into the story with an open mind and not judge from an extract.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Here's the thing. I get why the Lion did what he did with ...



... Nemiel. I mean, come on. The _Invincible Reason_ has been boarded by daemons, and there are SEVEN individuals who are able to do something about it. Nemiel is not just ready to _kill_ one of them; he's literally telling the Lion that he will not obey his commands in this middle of a battle.


What I *don't* get is...



... the Lion saying "treat the Iron Hands the same as the Death Guard." What? Are you serious? I get Gav is going for the whole "I can't trust anyone" theme. Fine, whatever, I never thought it made sense but obviously that's how it's going to be. But the Lion KNOWS the Death Guard are traitors, and he obviously KNOWS that Ferrus Manus and the Iron Hands were torn apart by Mortarion and his allies. There's suspicision, there's distrust, and then there's idiocy.


Also, why is it that...



... the Luna Wolves in "Horus Rising" and "False Gods", the Death Guard in "Flight of the Eisenstein", and the Ultramarines in "Know No Fear" are able to overcome their initial shock and fight the shit out of daemons and monsters, but Corswain - a former CHAMPION - decides to throw the whole And They Shall Know No Fear theme out the window and run away?


Consider also that it's QUALIFIED in the first two novels that the denizens of the Warp aren't a mystery! Loken talks about how it's POSSESSION that freaks them out, not random monsters with a horrific look about them.

Hell, a small group of Dark Angels was able to overcome initial shock/horror and closed in to fight a much more powerful Daemon in "Descent of Angels". What was the point of Corswain all of a sudden losing it?

It's the same thing as ...



... Nemiel's death.


Both were very blunt - inappropriate, IMHO - ways of driving forth certain points/themes.

At the risk of sounding overly negative, though, I DID enjoy Part 1 of this novella. I thought the ...



... translation/reversal stunt that crippled the Night Lords ship...


...the Lion pulled was really neat, and went well with his theme as a tactically brilliant, intuitive commander. It's also cool to see little tidbits, like the evolution of the Dark Angels from the Terran model to a Calibanite one. E.g., ...



... aside from Champions/Paladins, we know that they have Orders, which consist of 5,000 Astartes. What's not clear is if each of those Orders consists of five of the Chapters seen in the latter parts of "Descent of Angels" and in "Call of the Lion". The latter story, especially, implied that the Dark Angels Chapters consisted of 1,000 Astartes, as opposed to the Ultramarines', which had 10,000 men.


Plus, overall, I thought the characters are much more "alive" than in "Purging of Kadillus". Part 1 seems to be a nice combination of Gav's approach shown in "Call of the Lion" and the themes A-D-B established in "Savage Weapons".

Cheers,
P.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well, in Corswains' defense, he really didn't have an option. In those other cases the marines were fully capable of at least doing perceivable harm to the daemons, and ultimately banished them. In this case, Corswain and his men had no means of banishing them. Their only weapons, being their bolters, were utterly incapable of doing any damage to the daemons corporal form, and there would be no feasible means of attempting anything other than that. In seconds these creatures could burrow their way through meter thick barriers, so it isn't as though power weapons were an option. Really, his only workable solution to their current predicament was to fall back. If he they would have stayed they would had died, and more than likely done it without bringing down even one of the creatures. Also, it isn't as though Corswain just up and booked it screaming about naughty blazing fire serpents from hell; he recovered from the initial shock, attempted to fight back, realized that there was no hope and sealed the passage. After that he ordered a full retreat because there was really no other option. It was a perfectly reasonable reaction to the situation, at least in my opinion.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

I disliked the Lion after reading the former HH DA books, he moved up a notch after reading savage weapons (although he should have killed curze), I do not like the way this is going,
I am not sure if ADB is a good reference if it comes to book reviews


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> Well, in Corswains' defense, he really didn't have an option. In those other cases the marines were fully capable of at least doing perceivable harm to the daemons, and ultimately banished them. In this case, Corswain and his men had no means of banishing them. Their only weapons, being their bolters, were utterly incapable of doing any damage to the daemons corporal form, and there would be no feasible means of attempting anything other than that. In seconds these creatures could burrow their way through meter thick barriers, so it isn't as though power weapons were an option. Really, his only workable solution to their current predicament was to fall back. If he they would have stayed they would had died, and more than likely done it without bringing down even one of the creatures. Also, it isn't as though Corswain just up and booked it screaming about naughty blazing fire serpents from hell; he recovered from the initial shock, attempted to fight back, realized that there was no hope and sealed the passage. After that he ordered a full retreat because there was really no other option. It was a perfectly reasonable reaction to the situation, at least in my opinion.


I have to disagree.

In "Descent of Angels", there was no guarantee Zahariel and Israhafel's gambit was going to work, and the Dark Angels kept fighting against a being suffering no meaningful effect from their weapons.

And, again, in "Know No Fear" ...



... Samus was absolutely unstoppable. The Ultramarine Captain took a gamble with the Atheme. It paid off, but the point is that until then they had been unable to halt the daemon's rampages, but they still didn't run.


Bottom line, it all comes down to responses. Corswain's *instinct* (that's the specific word used) was to flee. His *fear* overrode him. It's not his tactical sense I'm questioning, because the way the scene was written that never came into play as much as his fear.

Cheers,
P.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

In both of the cases mentioned there were options left to the marines. Yes, Corswain acted on instinct, but it wasn't as though he had any other choice. He knew that if they stayed then they would all die. His instinct told him that. That doesn't mean he acted on fear alone. It did not say he panicked, but rather that says he acted on instinct. He was a veteran of the Astartes, so it is fair to say that if it says he acted on his instinct than more than fear would have been in play.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

piemelke said:


> I am not sure if ADB is a good reference if it comes to book reviews


Probably not. I dislike 90% of BL's output. I dislike 90% of any genre I read, though. It's not intentional.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

This thread was pretty chaotic. And the shit sounds pretty crazy.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> In both of the cases mentioned there were options left to the marines. Yes, Corswain acted on instinct, but it wasn't as though he had any other choice. He knew that if they stayed then they would all die. His instinct told him that. That doesn't mean he acted on fear alone. It did not say he panicked, but rather that says he acted on instinct. He was a veteran of the Astartes, so it is fair to say that if it says he acted on his instinct than more than fear would have been in play.




I'm not sure what options the Ultramarines had against Samus...being surrounded as they were by the Word Bearers, and having no choice but to hold their ground and allow the Magos to raise the communications net.

And again, it really just comes down to how I felt about the depiction of their reaction/emotions/etc.


I get what you're saying... but it might just be an "agree to disagree" bit. 

Cheers,
P.


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

Well I thoroughly enjoyed it. Personally I have never understood this "oh Captain Smith would not have fought berserker Slash Chops and his daemons like that, he would have done it like Captain Blogs did way back bla bla bla bla" Its a fight, things happen quick, to say one thing must happen in any set of circumstances because it previously happened in a similar set of circumstances, is (imo), ridicules. I have no problem at all with Corswain's actions. 

Variety is also why I enjoyed this so much. I'm glad that it appears that El'Johnson is not going to be just another run of the mill "loyal Primarch". He's moody, dangerous, unpredictable and mysterious. Nemiel for me never held much interest, in fact him having his head ripped of is probably the most interesting thing that he has done! As for why El'Johnson's treating the Iron Hands as potential targets, well I'll quote from Chapter Master Astelan "He was waiting to see which side won, of course".

For me, the Dark Angels and Lion El'Jonson have just got a bit darker and far more interesting and I'm very much looking forward to reading the rest of the story.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Probably not. I dislike 90% of BL's output


Well, there's an honest man for you


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I shall call it the "Gav Thorpe Phenomena." I honestly thought Gav Thorpe should have started the Dark Angels series. Now the Dark Angels story is just confusing. Having so many authors putting in their thoughts and changing it up. And now all the fans are trying to piece the info together. Now its just confusing and it really appears that there were different attempts as to the fate of the Dark Angels. But I hope that the DA do end to be the treacherous bastards Astellan described them as in _Angels of Darkness_.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> I shall call it the "Gav Thorpe Phenomena." I honestly thought Gav Thorpe should have started the Dark Angels series. Now the Dark Angels story is just confusing. Having so many authors putting in their thoughts and changing it up. And now all the fans are trying to piece the info together. Now its just confusing and it really appears that there were different attempts as to the fate of the Dark Angels. But I hope that the DA do end to be the treacherous bastards Astellan described them as in _Angels of Darkness_.


I think the DA should've been left in the hands of ADB after he had written _Savage Weapons_. I think World Eaters, Flesh Tearers, Night Lords, and Dark Angels should've be reserved for him. Too many cooks disturb the pot. I don't like how he handles a few things, but overall he's an excellent writer and has done/will do these legions justice.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> I think the DA should've been left in the hands of ADB after he had written _Savage Weapons_. I think World Eaters, Flesh Tearers, Night Lords, and Dark Angels should've be reserved for him. Too many cooks disturb the pot. I don't like how he handles a few things, but overall he's an excellent writer and has done/will do these legions justice.


I know what you're saying. I think you are right, in terms of established lore. ADB is a more competent writer for the DA. 

But if the DAs are heading towards Gav Thorpe's portrayal of them... then I really think they should have just stuck with Gav Thorpe all along.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

(I doubt it) but perhaps 4 different authors for the 5 appearances the Dark Angels have made in the Heresy series was intentional to add to the ambiguous/mysterious nature of the First Legion. Or maybe it is just a result of _Descent of Angels_ and _Fallen Angels_ recieving much less favourable reviews than most other heresy novels and thereby the team deciding to try out a different author. Who knows.

Or of course, I could just be talking a load of shit.


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> (I doubt it) but perhaps 4 different authors for the 5 appearances the Dark Angels have made in the Heresy series was intentional to add to the ambiguous/mysterious nature of the First Legion. Or maybe it is just a result of _Descent of Angels_ and _Fallen Angels_ recieving much less favourable reviews than most other heresy novels and thereby the team deciding to try out a different author. Who knows.
> 
> Or of course, I could just be talking a load of shit.


I doubt that was the intention (I may be wrong though but its a very strange tack to take). I feel its just a bloody mess to be honest. Why were Scanlon and Lee's stories ok'd? I thought both were very poor for different reasons. For me the blame has to lie with Alan Merritt, he's supposed to be on top of this kind of thing. I'm not a fan however of just one author writing about a particular Legion/Chaper, very much against that in fact. I just wish however that more effort was made (by some) to produce a more consistent set of events (Magnus's warning anyone, when was that again? might take place during the third war for Armaggedon next, its the warp thats done it, its ok :scratchhead. 

I've enjoyed both Gav and Aaron's contributions to the Dark Angels. However my ideal would be Aaron writing them/Lion as fence sitters and I'm not sure if he's keen on that take. I have to say as well that I have noticed that Aaron makes a real effort for his work to be consistent with other published stories (such as the small mention of a purge of the Word Bearers in TFH). 

I'm also not against retconing either as long as it changes things for the better (now who's being inconstant! :wink


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

I also do not like that one author get's a chapter or legion for himself, look what Swallow did to the BA, that is a complete disaster, also Nick should take a brake from the salamanders (which he will be doing with the EC) and have another author have a go at them.
I would like to see more variation, as long as everything is consistent. 
as for ADB he did a solid job with the NL, I do not like his WB work let Swallow have a go at the NL, that should reduce the blind adoration for the NL of some,


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

piemelke said:


> that should reduce the blind adoration for the NL of some,


Doubt it, they'll just do a Goto


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## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

I just read it last night and I really enjoyed it. My favorite thing I have to say is how bad Curze/Perterabo got to him, he is now coming off to me as the single most distrusting and aloof primarch out there. I'm really liking Dark Lion here and can't wait to read the rest


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## Kickback (May 9, 2008)

This is more in line with how I always envisioned The Lion to be like.
Still a loyalist though!


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

...but still, killing Nemial in such unnecessary fashion? A really odd choice IMO
 

I'd like to clarify that I wouldn't want an authour to hold a complete monopoly over a legion. However *if an authour is good and shows that he really "gets" a certain legion*, I'd want that authour to write most of the stuff for that legion, especially works featuring that legion as protagonists.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I think the death of Nemiel will work out great. Here is why:

It is mentioned a lot toward the end of _Fallen Angels_ that the guys on Caliban are very suspicious that the Lion is conspiring against them by sending most of the Calibanites to a world that is apparently destined to die. They mention that Nemiel could be one of the last hopes for them. I think having him die and the future Fallen find out about it could arouse their suspicions further to the point they open fire on the Dark Angel fleet when they return.


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