# Broken Troops



## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

So what's the most broken troops choice in the game? Is it Ravenwing bikers? Is it Blood Angels Assault Squads? Is it Eldar jet bikes? Is it Tyranid Warriors? What?


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

If by "broken" you mean powerful, I'd have to say Plague Marines.

Granted, this is in no way a rules question....

[puts on Magic Mod Hat]


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

pathwinder14 said:


> So what's the most broken troops choice in the game? Is it Ravenwing bikers? Is it Blood Angels Assault Squads? Is it Eldar jet bikes? Is it Tyranid Warriors? What?


If you're talking about actual troops choices, then probably Nob Bikers (troops with a warboss). The new 'nid tervigon maybe as well, but we'll have to see how that pans out  We'll probably find it's not as scary as it seems.

Other troop choice just aren't that broken, some are powerful (like plague marines, or bezerkers), but not actually broken. Looking at Raven wing bikers and Blood angels assault sqauds,they are nasty as troops yes, but neither is that uber on it's own. Tyranid warriors are a long way from being broken, they die rather easily to missiles, power fists and anything that causes ID.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Orks can field some ridiculous troops choices, of which Nob Bikers are some of the best (provided you have a warboss with them to allow them to be taken as troops.) Grotsnik and a unit of 30 slugga boyz is fairly ridiculous too, especially with 'eavy armour and/or cybork body. It is possible to take a Nob biker squad costing 840 points without taking equipment that doesn't help you. If you take duplicate bosspoles and WAAAGH! banners and all the extra gubbins, the squad gets over 1000 points.

Tervigons are good. A solid troops choice with a large benefit for its cost. But broken? Probably not. Nobody breaks troops choices like Orks.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Black Templars Sword Bretheren Assault Terminators!


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

If you mean completely stand-alone, probably Nob Bikers due to wound allocation rules

If you mean "as part of an army" then my money is on Dire Avengers. 32 Shots at S4 AP5 rerolling all hits and wounds. Point for point one of the most destructive abilities out there.


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## Atsuno11 (Jul 21, 2008)

I personally disagree with the nob bikers, because as you said, they can cost a ridiculous amount of points. Really, the unit needs to be powerful but still cost effective. Otherwise, it's mighty and powerful,. but balances out by the fact it's half your army. 

Or are we assuming totally stand-alone, slug fest of troops? Then...ya...No Bikers are burly. I mean...they have red, so dey go fasta and dere green, so dere da best! And not only dat but dere grean and BIG...and GOING FAST! WAAAGH! 

Sorry, haven't let my Orkiness show in a while. Too much Raven Guard, I guess...

If we are doing part of an army, I agree with Sethis. Dire Avengers are nasty, point for point.


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## Keelia (Aug 3, 2009)

110pt 10 man Dark Eldar Warrior Squad

2 36" S8 AP2 Lance weapons
2 12" S8 AP2 Lance weapons

All at BS 4. Can equal their points and exceed them easly in one turn. And more and more after that lol.


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

all round point for point best troop choice in the game has got to be the 15 points for a space wolf grey hunter. counter attack, acute senses, no fear. can take 2 special weapons , 1 for free. power weap, mow all cheap and good - access to the wolf standard. that in a rhino - great at tank killing/troop killing/reasonably fast/long lasting - whats not to love? they have the best bits of all other troop choices and no drawbacks. if they had fnp - o good i would have a mangasm....


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## Trignama (Jun 29, 2008)

As a unit? Well I'm gonna have to say a 20 man strong Black Templar Initiate/Neophyte squad... Tons of wounds, when they die they run forward, they all re-roll missed hits in combat (well initiates not neo's and depending on if you take the accept vow, but who doesnt?) a powerfist and melta gun? for roughly 285 pts depending on how you gear them? yeah my choice all the way


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

Yes I was talking over all power. I'm not concerned with cost effectiveness.


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## Champion Auzias (Apr 30, 2009)

Can't beleive noone else has thought of it, but it is simple really. An IG Platoon.

Has a pseudo-HQ built in, can field 5 squads of ten, all with chimeras, 5 squads of heavy weapons, 2 special weapons squads, and fifty conscripts. All for one troop choice. It will just overwhelm any other troop choice, and the greater part can take good upgrades and take transports. Green tide, anyone? Oh, and with AL'rahem, it all outflanks too.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

Champion Auzias said:


> Can't beleive noone else has thought of it, but it is simple really. An IG Platoon.
> 
> Has a pseudo-HQ built in, can field 5 squads of ten, all with chimeras, 5 squads of heavy weapons, 2 special weapons squads, and fifty conscripts. All for one troop choice. It will just overwhelm any other troop choice, and the greater part can take good upgrades and take transports. Green tide, anyone? Oh, and with AL'rahem, it all outflanks too.


Damn! That's just wrong. Out of curiosity, how many points is it?


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

even better if not restricting points is to have them led by straken. counter attack n furious charge? plus he is a beast in combat - s7 on charge 2d6 armour pen.


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## Champion Auzias (Apr 30, 2009)

Straken is company command, sadly, so he is HQ, but yeah, straken with ANY of those is very mean in CC. 

And as for the cost? Extreme. I think it is the most expensive ANYTHING choice in the game, someone number crunched and get a fully kitted in every aspect possible platoon that was somewhere around the neighborhood of 20k points.


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## Keelia (Aug 3, 2009)

Well if no cost. Oblits.

Basicly any weapon. Can be anti tank or anti infantry. 2 wounds BS 4 with a 2+/5+


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

troop choice only keelia, but it would be fun if ironwarriors had some sort of special character that allowed oblit cults to be taken as troops! and yea straken i guess couldnt be included  nay mind


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## elkhantar (Nov 14, 2008)

* ninjaed * oblits aren't troops *ninjaed*

And points should really be a factor. There can be some silly combinations that are balanced by points. Some of the troops described (e.g. BA assault marines) are balanced by their points cost not only to be reasonable, but not particularly effective.

And if you don't count points, can't Deathwing get some pretty silly units too? (just curious, but I suppose that SM terminators as troops can be good, right? even if the IG has this won before starting, that is...)


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## Theripontigonus (Dec 13, 2009)

Hm, theres three that stand out in my mind.

-SW Grey Hunters. 10 man squad with flamer, plasma gun, wolf standard, and a motw or pw is 175 points. They also have couter attack and acute senses as MJC50 noted earlier. Are they as powerful as units like nob bikers, no, but they have bolter, bolt pistols, and close combat weapons. That means they can double tap bolters on their turn, then if they get charged can potentially have 3 attacks per model at I4, re-rolling all ones in one combat. They are also fairly inexpensive for what they can do, and are a scoring unit.

-Terivgons. I know they arent that nasty, and Im the last person that should complain about them (Jaws, baby). However, they are a scoring unit if taken as troops, they shit out more scoring units, and are pretty tough at T6 with a 3+ save. By no means are they invulnerable, and most infantry can still wound them with shooting, but its not horribly expensive for the points, and if it is able to get off catalyst it can cause some real headaches.

-genestealers. this may be influenced by how badly they seem to wreck my squads, but genestealers just hit like trucks against space marines, can infiltrate, can outflank, are rending, and have 3 attacks on the charge. They also have a decent armor save, and can move through cover. Pretty good stuff for a unit with a fairly low points cost (1 point more than a grey hunter), and if you can get a tervigon near them with catalyst, they can go toe to toe with just about anything, and if they cant kill it, they can certainly tarpit it.


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## Keelia (Aug 3, 2009)

I still stand by the Dark Eldar warrior squad for 110 pts.

2 36" S8 AP2 Lance and 2 12" S8 AP2 shots.....all at BS4


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

yea you do get good value as a troops choice with the humble warrior. however they do have a pish save and if anyone gets round to attacking them then they normally go away. but hey you got to deal with those damn raiders first!


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## Keelia (Aug 3, 2009)

MJayC50 said:


> yea you do get good value as a troops choice with the humble warrior. however they do have a pish save and if anyone gets round to attacking them then they normally go away. but hey you got to deal with those damn raiders first!




Thing about those warriors is.....If u cant get through their 12" ring of death with out assaulting them that turn you are in for a world of hurt. 4 S8 AP2 shots 12 S3 AP5 shots. Granted S3 isnt nasty but people under estimate it


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

All TH/SS Wolf Guard w/ Logan Grimnar to be troops and Arjack
Rockfist to be the most bad ass and expensive unit on the table.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Definately SM Tactical Squads. 15 points each? 17 would make more sense, or a 4+ armor save.

Also I would say Genestealers are broken (even though I play 'Nids) because even though they get shot up, 27 of em' destroyed an 11 man Assault Termie squad.

Edit: Oh yeah, my Hierophant's looooving it's new 3+ invulnerable save!


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## hazzaozzy (Sep 13, 2008)

I say plaguebearers, they are cheapish, have high toughness for a troop choice, have poisned attacks, have feel no pain and they have an invulnerable to top that off. One of the best objective holding troops in the game.


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## Saggamortuss (Aug 22, 2008)

Probably a Tervigon. A six wound MC that can hold objectives, not to mention poop gaunts and bestow Feel No Pain, is pretty nasty. I would say that genestealers, while pretty buff, got a little nerfed since the good 'ol 4th edition days. The Broodlord for sure got nerfed in the new codex and since I always supported stealers with him I guess it's nerfing by extension? Anyways, 'stealers and Tervigons!


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Sethis said:


> If you mean completely stand-alone, probably Nob Bikers due to wound allocation rules
> 
> If you mean "as part of an army" then my money is on Dire Avengers. 32 Shots at S4 AP5 rerolling all hits and wounds. Point for point one of the most destructive abilities out there.


Except that "bladestorm" is a waste of points as is the exarch. Its much cheaper and efficient to just take basic squads and shoot them every turn, at least if your target priority changes, you don't have a useless unit. Additionally, any unit that relies on 2 psychic powers to make it good, isn't all that good in my book.



Champion Auzias said:


> Can't beleive noone else has thought of it, but it is simple really. An IG Platoon.
> 
> Has a pseudo-HQ built in, can field 5 squads of ten, all with chimeras, 5 squads of heavy weapons, 2 special weapons squads, and fifty conscripts. All for one troop choice. It will just overwhelm any other troop choice, and the greater part can take good upgrades and take transports. Green tide, anyone? Oh, and with AL'rahem, it all outflanks too.


I don't think so.... 10 nob bikers /w their warboss are going to multi-assault a lot of those units and cause your to need to roll a lot of double ones. Additionally, most of that shooting is str 3... I think T5 with a 3+/5++ and FNP with 2 wounds is more than adequate to deal with that



Keelia said:


> I still stand by the Dark Eldar warrior squad for 110 pts.
> 
> 2 36" S8 AP2 Lance and 2 12" S8 AP2 shots.....all at BS4


I still stand by turbo-boosted nobz. 3+ cover save means that you only cause .74 wounds... probably taken on a warboss to avoid ID.



I still stand by nob bikers.


12-24" movement.
T5
2W
3+/4+/5++ & FNP
5 attacks on the charge @ str 5
able to hold objectives
wound allocation


Sure they're expensive but mine always make their points back, whether its by having tonnes of firepower poured into them while they hold an objective or crumble a flank.


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## Keelia (Aug 3, 2009)

Crimzzen said:


> Except that "bladestorm" is a waste of points as is the exarch. Its much cheaper and efficient to just take basic squads and shoot them every turn, at least if your target priority changes, you don't have a useless unit. Additionally, any unit that relies on 2 psychic powers to make it good, isn't all that good in my book.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I watched a Tau player clean out Nob bikers in turn 1. Put 8 marker lights on them....Hit with 6....Then dropped the LD by 6. Put 4 rail guns into them...Killed 3 bikers...They failed LD test and ran off the board in turn 1. Good by 400+ pts. I think points need to be put into perspective. Yea nob bikers are nasty but they are also a heap of pts. Where some of the other enteries are just as good and only cost 100-200 pts.


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## inigo montoya (Feb 1, 2009)

Nob bikers are indeed scary, but not the best. Now that the shock factor has worn off they are more of a "wow I better deal with these NOW" unit than a "OMFGOMFG what do I do" unit.
Perhaps the tervigon (time will tell) 
My money right now is on the plague marine.


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## Arkanor (Jan 1, 2010)

Crimzzen said:


> Except that "bladestorm" is a waste of points as is the exarch. Its much cheaper and efficient to just take basic squads and shoot them every turn, at least if your target priority changes, you don't have a useless unit. Additionally, any unit that relies on 2 psychic powers to make it good, isn't all that good in my book.


Bladestorm and the Exarch certainly are not a waste of points if you need to focus a lot of firepower in a pinch. If you're just slogging across the board then yeah, it might do you well to have more men. If you're Mech it helps significantly to be able to cram 60% more firepower in your truck. DA's aren't amazing on their own, but they play their part in the grand battle plan, and that involves supporting them with other units.

Besides, your next turn you'll probably be getting back in your transport, who cares if you can't shoot?


My vote's on Nob Bikers, the thread title is "Broken" troops, not "good" troops. There are plenty of good troop choices. Nob Bikers wound allocation cheese is pretty broken.


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## Pedro (Jan 29, 2010)

Definitely a Grey Wolves marine. It's a tactical marine, only cheaper, with more weapons, better senses and counterattack. Rubbish. Yeah, something is more powerful than smth else, but this is wrong.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Wow, that does sound cheap! And no, Tervigons are definately not broken, as they will die very quickly.

I would say the Legion of the Damned, those damn SM have a 3+ inv save along with multi meltas and such. Oh yeah, and they deep strike for only 155 pts for 5!


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## Keelia (Aug 3, 2009)

DestroyerHive said:


> Wow, that does sound cheap! And no, Tervigons are definately not broken, as they will die very quickly.
> 
> I would say the Legion of the Damned, those damn SM have a 3+ inv save along with multi meltas and such. Oh yeah, and they deep strike for only 155 pts for 5!



Know how to get around a 3+ inv?

Shoot mass numbers of str 3 weapons at them. Not only is it lame but even lamer when they start failing saves to str3 weapons


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

i would say chaos terminator champion squad with lightning claws. What? 3 base attacks, +1 from claws, +1 if you get the charge, so 5 models can make 25 attacks on ws4, i4, so hit 12~, mere 9 power wounds against meq. Mark of khorne make it 30, thus 10~ power wounds. Rerolls let you wound 6t stuff pretty well too. mark of tzentch and you get 4+ invu, nurgle = 5t...sure it costs alot, but a squad of 6-7 should be able to cut down almost anything on charge and has Decent survivability + can take chainfist or smth for wehicles.

Another one is sm honour guard or whatever, bunch of guys with 2+ armor save that got no terminator armor drawbacks, and relic blades. Each have i think four 6s 4i power attacks on charge. Then you add chapter master or whatever with similar items but also digital lazers, mroe attacks, better stats... Librarian or smth could add 5+ invu but yeh quite easy to deal with high ap weps...doh dont have codex right now to check. They actualy won both games i played with them (against sm ss/th termi list and seer council eldar) lol


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## Brwrr (Jul 7, 2009)

You're talking about troops only, right? No Legion of the Damned, I think, or Terminators or Honor Guard. Unless they can be taken as troops somehow?

I love getting my Genestealers in an assault. I wouldn't say broken though because they usually get shot up right after their first assault.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

> I love getting my Genestealers in an assault. I wouldn't say broken though because they usually get shot up right after their first assault.


*remembers* ha, yeah, the good ol' days when Genestealers only played one round.

And those Chaos Terminators don't sound broken, just a bit overpowered.


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

but they arent. i would love to face these guys - sure, go nuts you got good stats but unless i get out manouvered then they are a priority. and they are an awful lot of points


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

so many people mentioning SW Grey Hunters... I will admit the fact I can set them up with either 2 Melta guns, or 2 Power Fists (or 1 Power weapon and 1 power fist) along with MotW and a Wolf Standard... though just remember, everything comes at a price.

Grey Hunters are cheap and powerful, but they can do some nasty work too.

Id say the new Genestealers are up there for cheap effective units of cheeze.

1 more point then hunters and they do HOW much better in close combat with outflanking?


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## Arkanor (Jan 1, 2010)

DestroyerHive said:


> Wow, that does sound cheap! And no, Tervigons are definately not broken, as they will die very quickly.
> 
> I would say the Legion of the Damned, those damn SM have a 3+ inv save along with multi meltas and such. Oh yeah, and they deep strike for only 155 pts for 5!


Legion are laughably bad, and furthermore aren't even troops.

They're no better than Tac marines vs normal bullets, just shoot cheap guns at them. They can't secure objectives either, useless.


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

MyI)arkness said:


> Another one is sm honour guard or whatever, bunch of guys with 2+ armor save that got no terminator armor drawbacks, and relic blades. Each have i think four 6s 4i power attacks on charge. Then you add chapter master or whatever with similar items but also digital lazers, mroe attacks, better stats... Librarian or smth could add 5+ invu but yeh quite easy to deal with high ap weps...doh dont have codex right now to check. They actualy won both games i played with them (against sm ss/th termi list and seer council eldar) lol


I'm sorry I dont think I can agree on this statement. Even though I plan to take them myself I dont think their worth the points at all. We are talking 35 points a model, 2+ armor save but no invunerable so anything AP 2 will munch them. They only come stock with power weapons (which is nice) the relic blades will cost you a further 15 points a model, so now more costly than Terminators and less surviable. To get 3 attacks (four on the charge) you need to buy a Chapter Banner. If you want to spend even more points you can give them Digital weapons though.

Nasty in CC to be sure, but are they even worth the points?


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

I'd have to agree with inigo montoya and say the plague marine. Once sitting in cover on an objective they're immovable.


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

JackalMJ said:


> I'm sorry I dont think I can agree on this statement. Even though I plan to take them myself I dont think their worth the points at all. We are talking 35 points a model, 2+ armor save but no invunerable so anything AP 2 will munch them. They only come stock with power weapons (which is nice) the relic blades will cost you a further 15 points a model, so now more costly than Terminators and less surviable. To get 3 attacks (four on the charge) you need to buy a Chapter Banner. If you want to spend even more points you can give them Digital weapons though.
> 
> Nasty in CC to be sure, but are they even worth the points?


Well as i said, i obliterated two decent armies with this list, but they are surely not competetive, especialy if enemy is prepared for them.



Brwrr said:


> You're talking about troops only, right? No Legion of the Damned, I think, or Terminators or Honor Guard. Unless they can be taken as troops somehow?
> 
> I love getting my Genestealers in an assault. I wouldn't say broken though because they usually get shot up right after their first assault.



DOH...supposed to be just troops, well im sick and cant think straight xD

As for on topic, i like noise marines. So much firepower that they can handle just about any low armor swarm and got good range. Also absolute meq killers if they get the charge with doom siren and base 5i (not 4 + 1 from slaanesh mark) surely helps for those sweeping advances, not very good against the famous plague marines though:}


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