# Tomb Spyder hammer



## ArmoredGhost (Aug 18, 2008)

My second 40K army was Necrons and I had a chance to play them again the other day and while I was making a list I had an idea for a "bodyguard" assault group for my Warriors and please tell me if this is even possible or if anyone has already posted this because I have been out of the Necron loop for a while. 

My idea was simple take a group of three TSpyders, place them together in a single unit, artificier a Scarab Swarm for each and bingo you have a huge Monstrous Creature unit it has been a headache for my buddies that I play with. So tell me what you think.


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## Lord Castellen (Jun 29, 2009)

i enjoy the idea of it, only problem is a leman russ blast to the face can rip that apart in a mighty quick hurry, are the tomb spiders T4 or T5 or T6, i cant remember, i know theyre 2 wounds, but i remember them being relitivly fragile against imperial special/heavy weapons


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## ArmoredGhost (Aug 18, 2008)

The TSpyders are T6. I usually don't play IG very often, usually SMarines, SoBattle. I definitely try to stay away from the big guns and in cover as much as possible.


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## Lord Castellen (Jun 29, 2009)

well in that case id say its actually a pretty decent idea, nice buffer between you and the opponent, and they need to be dealt with or else they rip apart opponent squads, whats the dealio with scarabs with them? are they bound to the tomb spyder? or can they fly off and pester on their own, cuz that could make a hilariously annoying army, not very effective, but fricken annoying.


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## ArmoredGhost (Aug 18, 2008)

That would be rather annoying but no the scarabs join the unit and must stay in coherency. What I do tho is I use 7xScarab Swarms with DFields and deepstrike, run to cover then glance the hell out of vehicles. Pretty effective.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

is it allowed to deploy the Spiders together?
I don't have my Dex at hand but the Tyranids have to deploy their Zoas as singel units.
But I am not sure

also the fact that you add scarab swarms makes the unit a mixed one and therefore you get cover not anymore by the 50% rule but by the "how many models are in cover?" rule

so if you can manage it to get 3 scarabs into voer 50% of the unit are in cover ynad you get a cover save


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Deploys independently, operates independently.

Monstrous Creatures, not Independent Characters (can't form units).

Sorry, it's illegal.


Although, the cover abuse with Swarms might still be possible, too tired to figure that, though.

EDIT: Just remembered, MCs are targeted separately, it can't get cover for the Swarms actions, and I think the "Swarm" rule disallows granting saves to MCs and vehicles (might just be vehicles).


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Squerl.

"Artificier: Heacn Necron Turn, A tomb Spyder that is not in close combat can expend energy to create a scarab swarm. The swarm is placed in contact with the spyder at the start of the assault phase. Roll d6 for each swarm produced. On a 1, the spyder takes a wound as it is drained by the energy espenditure. Each swarm produced will form a unit with the tomb spyder that created it and must retain coherency with it for the remainder of the game" 

aka it becomes a unit with the Tomb spyder.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

As soon as the Tomb Spyder is joined with 2 or more Scarabs, he will drop back to the majority toughness remember.

EDIT: Though the OP does suggest joining the Tomb Spyder units, which is illegal.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

So to sum up:


Tomb Spiders can't be in units together because they are Monstrous Creatures, and the Codex says they are seperate units.

Scarab Swarms created by a Tomb Spider form a coherent unit with the Tomb Spider, neither can be singled out.


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## officer kerky (Jun 12, 2008)

well does the codex state they must be in a unit.
because remember the codex outrules the big rule book.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

The codex states that they operate independently. In 4th ed. you were allowed to place them all at once like a single unit, although you did not need to place them together because they are MCs. This does not apply to 5th ed. because you deploy your whole army all at once instead of a unit at a time.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

darklove said:


> The codex states that they operate independently. In 4th ed. you were allowed to place them all at once like a single unit, although you did not need to place them together because they are MCs. This does not apply to 5th ed. because you deploy your whole army all at once instead of a unit at a time.


the codex states that they operate independently but they are counted as one unit on the FoC aswell, but only on the FoC


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## ArmoredGhost (Aug 18, 2008)

Ok sorry guys the only thing that lead me to believe I could was on pg20 "You may include 1-3 Tomb Spyders as a single Heavy Support choice. Tomb Spyders are deployed as a single unit but do not have to be placed together  and operate as independent units during the game. So my bad.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

well the kodex SAYS they can be deployd as a single unit... so they can be.
Kodex breaks RB ...

additionally as soon as a Scarab is produced the "unit" of Spider and Scarab has to be treated as a normal unit and gets cover like a normal unit... so if on of the two models has cover the whole unit has


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

*squint*

Okay, I'm completely certain I remember reading that Monstrous Creatures can be targeted independently of their squad, if they have one, I just can't find the exact quote...


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Sqwerlpunk said:


> *squint*
> 
> Okay, I'm completely certain I remember reading that Monstrous Creatures can be targeted independently of their squad, if they have one, I just can't find the exact quote...


You are right in that MCs can, in normal situations, always be singled out. But this is a special rule in the Necron Codex, so it over-rules the BRB.


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

There is nothing to state that they cannot be singled out, see the Tyranid codex Special Rule Shieldwall for an example of that. I'm not sure if the rule exists in 5th, tbh, if it doesn't, yes you can use the Swarm in cover to gain cover for the "squad". If it does exist, then no, there is nothing there to state the Tomb Spyder can't be picked out apart from the Swarm (interestingly though, if you chose to target the Swarm, the Necron could allocate to the Sypder).


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

What I mean is that you can't single them out in the same way as an Eldar Warlock or an SM Sgt can't be chosen as a specific target out of their unit. The TS and SS for a single coherent unit.


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## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

What's more, if the majority of the unit gets the swarm USR, the unit will also gain stealth! and vulnerability to templates. . .


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

true but also not! cause this case is mentioned in the Dex so the Scarabs have it the spyder not! its explained.


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## BrotherR (Oct 10, 2008)

the Spyder and the swarm form a unit. you can't target either seperately. spyders do not gain the swarm rule so do not get their reduced cover save.
with 1 scarab there is no majority toughness so you are wounding against toughness 6.

They are an okay unit with uses and not too expensive. so for 55 pts you get a 2 member unit. T6 and 5 wounds.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

it is about the wounds against the Scarab base. If those come from a small blast the Scarbs fragility still takes place as it is written i nthe Tomb Spyders explaination about their Scarabs


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## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

I'll have to look at the BRB again, but I'm pretty sure it says that Monstrous Creatures can be targetted seperately, even if part of another unit. Yes, the scarabs being unable to leave the spyder makes it use the retinue rule, but I think that maybe the spyder can still be targeted.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

careful you don't produce too many scarabs or you'll drop your toughness to 3


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Crimzzen said:


> careful you don't produce too many scarabs or you'll drop your toughness to 3


Ninja'd you by about a page 

Always good to re-iterate though


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## Pucadubh (Jan 29, 2008)

Hi all,
just pondering a list with Spyders and was wondering about Kill points. If you deploy a unit of 3 and the operate as independant units, does this mean you have just fielded 1 or 3 kill points?


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

any separate unit in the game counts as one killpoint ... just like the Zoanthrophes from the Tyras or the dedicated Transports with orks , sm etc


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

3 KP if you have 3 of them... same problem for nids with 3 lictors or 3 zoanthropes. Each is independent so they are all seperate units (and so seperate KP).

I love tomb spyders so long as they have 1 base of scarabs with them. They'll be a T6 unit that will get a 3+ cover save at the drop of a hat (if the scarabs are behind a unit/in 4+ cover then the scarabs get a 3+ cover save, since 50% of the unit has a 3+ cover save the unit has a 3+ cover save.. including the spyder- again pioneered by the nids).
You cant always target an MC no matter where it is or if its in a unit. This was a rule (saying that you could) back in 4th (mebbe 3rd) edition that meant the nids needed the Shieldwall SR on tyrant guard, that rule is now obsolete.

TBH I cant see how vulnerable to blasts would work but if I was playing I think I would say that any wounds allocated to the scarabs from blasts/template weapons became doubled (though by RAW I think that all wounds should be doubled- rule says units with the rule double wounds and not models... the rule isnt lost so is still there on the unit).


All in all, some negatives but the additional wounds and the cover saves would more then make up for it. Not sure if this makes the unit worth taking but its certainly worth considering (just keep powerfists away from it- 1 hit on the swarm will instant kill it and give +3 to combat res... if you took a wound making the scarabs it'll only take 2 power weapon wounds to kill the spyder via allocation or just a couple of no retreat rolls from losing combat).


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