# Arming Chaos Aspiring Champions: CC weapons



## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Hey everyone, I'm a brand new player building his army trying to figure stuff out.

Right now I'm wondering how to arm my regular marine aspiring champs, and my 'zerker champs.

Currently, I have most of them armed with power fists. I bought a mostly pre-assembled army and this is how they were put together. I also have the chosen from dark vengeance, whom I plan to use as aspiring champions. Fists/axes/mauls are my options. I can easily attach power swords or chainswords/axes if I choose.

If it matters, my army is Khorne themed. I have a ton of berzerkers (30 or so) and a lord on juggernaut. I have about 10 bikers as well, champ also armed with a fist at the moment. I have 2 rhinos for the 'zerks as of now, and a land raider which will either be a 'zerker or terminator/lord transport.

Chaos champions must accept challenges, and fists strike last, so I'm wondering if I'm dooming them to a guaranteed death per challenge. Is this a bad thing? I realize units are bound to die in 40k, but I would love to balance the deaths of my units with as many enemy casualties as possible.

Thanks for any guidance you can offer, sorry if this is redundant. Still very unclear on the rules and without having played a game yet, have no clue about strategy.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

You seem to have the rules covered pretty well and your concern about fists in forced challenges is a very real one.
Since the new dex my CSM power fist champions are on a break. When they always are singled out, always strikes last and cost so many points they aren't really worth it in my opinion.
I prefer to keep them naked, but you can easily make arguments for the different choices of PW. 
To me swords or claws seem the best, but if the unit is joined by a lord they should be naked as in those instances the champs sole duty is to issue the challenge and allow the lord to slice the rest of the squad apart.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Is there a chance that the naked champ will win the challenge? Or rather, as you said, it's just to allow the lord to rape the rest of the enemy's squad. I gotta get over the fear of death of the champ unish:. After all, Khorne is super cool with him dying, instead.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

venomlust said:


> Is there a chance that the naked champ will win the challenge? Or rather, as you said, it's just to allow the lord to rape the rest of the enemy's squad. I gotta get over the fear of death of the champ unish:. After all, Khorne is super cool with him dying, instead.


Against most troops/anything like a marine or weaker a naked champ will usually win.
Against anything worse you shouldn't count on it, but then again the same is true if has a fist so there is little reason to give him one if you ask me.

Besides, if you keep him naked/with a pw he might actually win against a terminator champ everyone once in a while.

But if you have a lord around you shouldn't really care about the unit champ. In a lot of instances it doesn't matter if he dies as long as you win the combat/deal enough damage.

The only times you are sadface to see him go is in the standard CSM squads because he has a higher LD, but your zerks shouldn't really give a crappe.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Awesome, thanks for the help. I think I get it now.:victory:

I gotta get my army painted and actually play the damn game.


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## iamtheeviltwin (Nov 12, 2012)

I like the Power Weapon option myself. My meta is pretty heavy with power armor though, so the AP3 at init gives him a shot at winning a challenge.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

I prefer a lightning claw--rerolls to wound just about balance out with the loss of an attack, and against monstrous creatures and other high-toughness opponents, the claw is more useful. Also, if I have the points, I try to add meltabombs for that precious AT.


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

For the Khorne champion I would definitely give him a power weapon as the whole point of khorne bezerkers is to assault infantry units, so the the power fist will be overkill and potentially and leave you exposed in a challenge. A power weapon will let you attack at normal initiative and will give you +1 attack (for pistol and CC weapon) compared to lightning claws and power fists which are specialist weapons so won't.

For generic champions it really depends on what you are going to use them for, most of them can be left naked, but if say you find yourself getting assaulted by a lot of MCs a power fist may be worth it for the strength boost, or if you are advancing up the field then a power weapon may be worth it as you are going to be getting close to the enemy.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Awesome, I'm really digging all these replies.

While we're at it, what about biker champions (also of Khorne)? I know Mossy is a fan of the power lance due to its stats on the first charge. I have the skullcrusher lances, to boot. Very nice weapons.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

I use power lances on units that have massive charge bonuses, generally: bikes with the Mark of Khorne and the Icon of Wrath, for instance, for the champion's 5 S7 AP3 attacks on the charge.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

With a lance, does he have a shot at damaging vehicles? Or should I additionally arm him with melta bombs for that purpose?


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

Well, I like melta bombs on the champs, and I find it especially useful on bikerchamps. This is mainly because I pretty much always give my bikes meltaguns and send them tank hunting. Due to their speed they are pretty good at it too, but every once in a while the meltaguns fail to do their job and when that happens the bomb is pretty nifty to have as a backup plan, especially considering its cost.

But power lances I despise. Even with their charge bonus I find them unimpressive and without it they are just really expensive chainaxes. Hell, I'd rather put power axes on my champs than that stupid lance. Having a good weapon on the charge (hell, it's not even great) isn't worth much when it is crappe in all other instances. Having a weapon that is always good is worth much more if you ask me. 
So I'm gonna say that any time you are considering to go with the lance, be ashamed of yourself and go with a sword or lightning claw instead.


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## Lord Krungharr (Feb 5, 2012)

Hmmm, are power lances +2 Strength on the charge? I thought they were just +1, so the biker champ would be 4+ Furious Charge + Lance=6. Still pretty good with the Rage and 2 CCW though.

I also like the Lightning Claw idea, I like pairs better, but Slaanesh tends to be better for that. A combi-melta or plasma comes in handy for those throw-away Champions.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Also to remember is with the space marine book just having come out a lot more armies are using combat tactics to reduce the amount of enemy sarges to challenge you out.
And while it's sad to see our champs fall they do have the extraordinary power to randomly turn into chaos spawn or daemon princes, so for the fifteen point investment its not a horrible waste of points.
If you aren't running plague marines though, do not bring a fist or axe, the other troopers just arent sturdy enough to take a round of beating. A simple power sword/lightning claw is usually fine. If you really need to skimp on points a melta bomb will do if need be.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Good point, m'lord of breakfast treats. Not something I had considered. Less challenges sounds good, in theory, to me. Then again, I don't really understand too much yet .

Other than space marines, which sergeant equivalents are going to give my guys the most trouble in a challenge?


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

A daemonette allures will wreck your day with an ap2 weapon swinging at a pretty high initiative if they bought the upgrade(Which they will if an allures exists).
Aspiring Champs generally should wield power toys to punk unsuspecting other generic squad leaders(Space marines rarely carry weapons, ig will get flattened before they swing, ork nobs might get slain which is still better than them krumping three dudes, DE are issues because poison powertoy is a thing with a high initiative. Generic eldar are too diverse, you'll take the lunch money of some provided you have a powerweapon of some type(Dont take maul though, that thing universally sucks))
With chaos, I think the champ issue falls into two very diverse thoughts. One being that our cult champs can wreck the majority random squad leaders of other armies and get rolls on the chaos boon table(Read:Money in your pocket), but if you have a Chaos Lord in the unit, you're going to throw that particular aspiring champ under the bus so the Lord can cleave apart squads. Since only one challenge can be issued, you would do well to have the aspiring champ jump in the way to leave the chaos lord open to wreck squads.

Oh and cultists don't get anything. Ever. Adopted little sniveling fucks need to work for their chaos boons.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

LordWaffles said:


> Oh and cultists don't get anything. Ever. Adopted little sniveling fucks need to work for their chaos boons.


Champ on a quad gun for precision shots. Most likely way to get him rolls on the boon table, for all the good it would do him.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Awesome, very very good stuff.

Now, next question, what about arming a terminator squad?

When I use him as an HQ choice, I have a termi lord with chainfist/LC. 

Currently my termi-champ has a power fist/combi-melta. Is this a decent enough equip for him in most situations?


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

I would advice against ever giving a terminator champ anything other than a combiweapon. After all, he suffers from the same weakness as the standard CSM champs, except the other members of his squad can have the exact same equipment as him but for much cheaper. For instance, a powerfist cost more than 3 times as much on the termie champ than it does on a normal termie. And this champ don't even have an extra attack. I would just leave him naked (remember, he has a PW standard) or give him a combiweapon if needed and nothing else. The cheaper you keep the happier you are to see him become a prince and the less sad you'll be if he turns into a spawn or you have to sacrifice him so your lord can get to murder in peace.


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## iamtheeviltwin (Nov 12, 2012)

AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH said:


> just leave him naked (remember, he has a PW standard)


This is key...you get a free PW and if you want AP2 just model a Power Axe instead of the Sword. Not worth the points for other upgrades.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Cool, very good points. Thanks guys!

During my first game yesterday, my lord + termis deep striked (struck?) onto the board ready to cause some mayhem. All 5 of them died due to shitty rolls (lots of 1s), leaving the lord all by himself. So the equip on the champ didn't even matter haha!


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

Sometimes that happens. Last game I used mine they came down turn 2, opened fire with their combiplasmas and 2 died from Gets Hot! I was like, WTF guys?


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Haha that sucks. My warlord trait was rerolls on the boon table.

Roll 1, got nothing. Roll 2, +1 BS... with fisticlaws. He took out a wraithlord and a psyker of some sort, so at least he did something.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

See that is why I avoid using terminators...that and the whole never being able to run down units.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

But they're so cool! I do have a Land Raider, so I suppose I can toss a squad of 9 + HQ inside and deliver them that way, but seeing as how it was my first game, I'm just gonna experiment with many delivery systems and see how it goes. I had 10 berzerkers in the LR instead.


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