# grey knight frustration!



## Robfu (Feb 14, 2012)

ok I don't get it, You have nemesis force swords that lower invul saves by one in close combat. You have storm shields. You have an army based on knights by look and name. What you don't have is the ability to put those 2 pieces of wargear together. WTF!
what is worse you don't have the ability to have an inquisitor, who can virtually requisition anything in the arsenal of the imperium and beyond, to gear themselves up in this manner either. I call bullshit.
I ask were is my sword and board knights, I don't think Draigo's sword counts as a nemesis sword, if it does, whoopdy friggin do, that is one guy. I mean really Paladins without sword and board.

-Robfu out!


----------



## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

WHAT???????????????

Regular Grey knights can not take storm shields 

Your basically asking why can't I take a 2+ / 2+ marine, which strike first most of the time and is capable of inflicting instant death, and allow no regular save personally I think the answer is pretty obvious....

BALANCE

That would BREAK paladins completely


----------



## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

it would break them EVEN MORE you mean


----------



## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

So wait, you're complaining that Grey Knights aren't powerful enough?

But sure, if you want me to be able to take 10 two wound Terminators who have Force Weapons and a 2+/2++, can abuse wound allocation AND score then sign me up!

Also Nemesis Force Swords raise the bearers invulnerable by +1 (5++ becomes 4++ etc), not lower the opponents by 1.


----------



## SavageConvoy (Sep 21, 2011)

My crisis suits cry out of pity for the Grey Knights.


----------



## arlins (Sep 8, 2010)

my sympathy goes with you 

next time i face GK ill forgo shooting them so they can get into CC without a scratch.
That should redress the inbalance that you have pointed out.


----------



## Robfu (Feb 14, 2012)

Actually, I know it was prolly balance as the reason why. I also believe that they are powerful. But for fluffs sake, wtf!


----------



## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

Model them with a sword and shield and say the shield is what gives them the +1 invul? Doesn't need to be explicitly stated with rules for you to model someone how you like.


----------



## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

I must learn to play nice


----------



## MidnightKid333 (Feb 2, 2011)

Grey Knights are already broken as hell and you are still whining?

-.-

@SoulGazer - He is both.


----------



## Robfu (Feb 14, 2012)

I find it so funny that you call me immature and a troll, when not only did I concede the reason why they prolly don't have the combo. My real gripe is about fluff, and the lack of forsight on GW's part. I think it says more about your reading levels rather than anything about myself. 
The fix I believe I will do to get the broken effect you are all afraid of is to give my "sgts" nemesis force staves, but model them with sword and boards. There that fixes the mechanics problem, but not really the fluff. 
It is one thing to be a forum that allows cursing and adult discussions, and a totally other being one that is populated with those old enough to understand what they are reading.

Peace out
-Robfu


----------



## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

does it ever say in the fluff that the combo is never used....?


----------



## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Here it is, pg. 1,143,672 of the "Throne thoughts of the Eternal Emperor" Fourth Edition, Terra House Press:

"And the number of your storm shields shall be One. No More, No less. They shall not be Two, Nor three, nor even Five, but only one."

And they ate Sir Robin's Minstrels, and there was great rejoicing!

(humor interlude)


----------



## Robfu (Feb 14, 2012)

Creon said:


> Here it is, pg. 1,143,672 of the "Throne thoughts of the Eternal Emperor" Fourth Edition, Terra House Press:
> 
> "And the number of your storm shields shall be One. No More, No less. They shall not be Two, Nor three, nor even Five, but only one."
> 
> ...



You sir are awesome!


----------



## Imwookie2 (Jul 14, 2010)

A knight is made of the principles he stands for......not the equipment he uses.


----------



## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

You can always model your grey knights with shields. Say they are purely cosmetic and have no bearing on how they perform in game (or rationalise it as the reason to why their invulnerable save becomes better). Then you have sword and shield knights without breaking any rules.


----------



## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

As before mentioned - balancing.
I personally dont think the Grey Knight models would look any good with shields. "Spartan" Ultramarine types would, but Grey Knights can not. Its a fashion thing i think like how i can never pull off those damn high heels (maybe i should shave my legs?).


----------



## SavageConvoy (Sep 21, 2011)

If the Emprah protects, why would they need the shields or even power armor. Guess they don't have much faith afterall.


----------



## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

They all have shields. Those little ones that go by their shoulder-joint.:grin:


----------



## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

Robfu said:


> My real gripe is about fluff, and the lack of forsight on GW's part.


*Enter Chaos Rant Here*

its GW its the land where logic, balance, and awesome Chaos codexes do not prevail....yet for the last one.



DeathKlokk said:


> They all have shields. Those little ones that go by their shoulder-joint.:grin:


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## kaboot (Jan 4, 2012)

If your concerned with the fluff, from what I know, ALL GK go into battle with the wargear they like the most. They get to PICK what works best for them. Maybe they all hate shields.

Hopefully that eases your tortured mind

**edit** And just cause they use "knight" elements, doesnt mean thay need to be strick to the letter. Im sure the Carcharadons chapter doesnt look like sharks, and im sure they dont swim in oceans eatting seals.


----------



## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

because their swords are 2 handed, they don't have room or another spare hand for a storm shield.


----------



## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

the-ad-man said:


> because their swords are 2 handed, they don't have room or another spare hand for a storm shield.


Cha-ching !

Give that man a coconut !

Well 'cept for the terminators of course


----------



## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

Magpie_Oz said:


> Cha-ching !
> 
> Give that man a coconut !
> 
> Well 'cept for the terminators of course


swords, halberds and staves are still 2 handed for termies right?


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Shields are for pussies anyway.


----------



## Scythes (Dec 30, 2011)

They obviously have enough faith in their amrour they don't need to cower behind some big ol' sheild. 

Also....


Serpion5 said:


> Shields are for pussies anyway.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

deathklock was actually on the money, they shield is present in the small tilt shield on the shoulder, which is a massive nod fluff wise to knights, that shield on the left shoulder was there to protect knights during jousts from the lance sliding off the breast plate and into the left arm pit which is where all the heart gubbins happens to be.

I dont think this thread had anything to do with fluff from reading the opening post and thread title


----------



## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> deathklock was actually on the money, they shield is present in the small tilt shield on the shoulder, which is a massive nod fluff wise to knights, that shield on the left shoulder was there to protect knights during jousts from the lance sliding off the breast plate and into the left arm pit which is where all the heart gubbins happens to be.
> 
> I dont think this thread had anything to do with fluff from reading the opening post and thread title


i think its more 'why doesnt grey knights have all the stuff everyone else have?'

poor grammar intended.

its simply to make the codex more unique, and not 'another power armour codex' as many people cry. grey knights easily have enough new toys to play with. i've never missed the storm shield from the codex, mainly because any gk hq with an iron halo and sword will have that 3++ anyway haha


----------



## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

*Shields are for old ladies and men afraid to get hit!!*

At least, that's what I always told our warriors when I was on my feral druid in WoW (when that sucked up too much of my time).


----------



## Skari (Dec 20, 2011)

Why use a shield when you can use a stick and its better.


----------



## kaboot (Jan 4, 2012)

the-ad-man said:


> because their swords are 2 handed, they don't have room or another spare hand for a storm shield.


 
Well, maybe the PA knights, but terminators could, Draigo has a shield/sword combo. But he's a puss.

Why not just use nova cannons? It might help balance out the GK codex :crazy:


----------



## Robfu (Feb 14, 2012)

kaboot said:


> Well, maybe the PA knights, but terminators could, Draigo has a shield/sword combo. But he's a puss.
> 
> Why not just use nova cannons? It might help balance out the GK codex :crazy:


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
k:

I meant it as a grip and a fluff thing, I didn't meant why not add storm shields to the current codex, i was griping about only one guy being able to use them.
I mean the Inquisitors can't even get them, and I have played them since 2nd ed. so i have one with a storm shield i can't use now.
I could see them, the termies giving up storm bolters for them or at least the HQ choices doing so.
you could even set it as a package thing.
only give the option to buy a storm shield with the halberd or hammer.
or give the inquisitors the option without access to the nemesis sword.
oh because 2== invul in close combat is unbalanced, oh wait they get that with a staff?
a staff?
really?
ok so they are monks too, so friar grey knight. ok i can go with it, but the gimping of the inquisitors is annoying and these are belated groans about the transition from the Inquisitorial codices to this Grey Knight one.
I dare you to call a Spartan a pussy, Build a time machine go back in time and call one that to his face, I dare you. If you ever stood up and played or fought with weapons you would respect sword and shield more. Is it sexy, not as much as two -handed barbarian hulk fest , no.
Is it the right thing for the heroes that face daemons, I think so. I would also have went with shields similar to Draigo's and not the classic storm shield.
I think they thought about doing it, but was so sold on the nemesis sword and that the two together would be unbalanced, they drooped them except for Draigo.
also just for those who are absolutists about separating fluff from rules. GET OVER IT!
without the fluff there would be no rules and without the fluff you would be hard pressed to explain the rules in a way that makes them clear in the context o the game. That is why there is a lil fluff with every piece of wargear and such. It is there to help explain the reasoning behind the rule and the origin of the rule. they go hand in hand, it is how you get things that are RAI compared to RAW.


----------



## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

"so i have one with a storm shield i can't use now."

So what? 
My Space Wolves have a Leman Russ Exterminator that they can't use any more. 
My Wolf Scouts have four Shotguns. Ditto.

It happens.


----------



## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

the-ad-man said:


> because their swords are 2 handed, they don't have room or another spare hand for a storm shield.


I've come for my coconut, Nemesis Force Swords aren't two handed, only the Halberd is


----------



## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Robfu said:


> also just for those who are *absolutists* about separating fluff from rules. GET OVER IT!













What do people who believe government should be under one power have to do with fluff vs rules?




> I dare you to call a Spartan a pussy, Build a time machine go back in time and call one that to his face, I dare you.


OK I'm back. I did it. I called him a big wet stinky pussy. He didn't react at all! I guess he didn't speak English.

After that I fast forwarded to 1968 and caught a Zeppelin concert. Man, that Bonham guy can bang those drums!


----------



## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

DeathKlokk said:


> OK I'm back. I did it. I called him a big wet stinky pussy. He didn't react at all! I guess he didn't speak English.


Probably it was more that the cat wasn't introduced to Europe until the 1st or 2nd century so it is unlikely that he had even the slightest notion of what a pussy is and its implications on his man brand.


----------



## DK1 (Nov 16, 2011)

Well what if gk could take a shield that gave them another +1 to inv in close.

Also got to remember Grey Knights are sword and cc fighters, there armor is built to let them move around better.


----------



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

They have issues shooting their stormbolters when there is a shield strapped over it.


----------



## Robfu (Feb 14, 2012)

First off very funny, second I know now that you guys are trolling me on a thread that I have some regrets starting, and I think that I placed in the wrong forum.

But, it is not bad trolling and maybe you felt I was calling you out or something. I wasn't I have dealt with absolutists before and if you want the quote I am using it from. Here it is, but please don't sanction me for it.

"You need a common judge to avoid the state of war, and that�s one reason to form a society.� HOWEVER, it�s never a reason to form an absolutist society, or one against the laws of nature, because the rulers under this system are themselves using �force without right� and therefore are in a state of war with their subjects.� Only here, they have all the forces of the state on their side, so the subjects are worse off than in the state of nature." John Locke: Second Treatise of Government.

http://spruce.flint.umich.edu/~simoncu/368/locke.htm

here is a link to show a argument using logic. 
http://fatfist.hubpages.com/hub/There-are-NO-Absolutes-There-is-NO-Absolute-Truth


----------



## Robfu (Feb 14, 2012)

oh and the word absolutist and Absolutist, capitalized to recognize it specifically, are two different words.
absolutist is someone who practices absolutism in whatever form.

"Absolutist" is as you say. 
the same difference would be to compare them to the words god and God.


----------



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

After reviewing this and your posts in the crowe thread I have to say this sums up my thoughts.


----------



## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Don't make the mistake of confusing "taking the piss" with "trolling"

If I say, "nice work with the period placement there matey" that would be taking the piss.

"STFU F'tard you're infantile and intractable " is Trolling.

Oh and a handy tip, rather than quoting things that are really pretty much irrelevant and don't actually provide any evidence to support your case, try the final word in all English meanings, The Oxford Dictionary: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/absolutism?q=absolutists+#absolutism__2 ; kinda backs you up.


----------



## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

So, what the Hell has that got to do with Fluff vs. Rules?

I think the thread is giving you just what you asked for. reasons why GKs don't carry Shields. Storm Shields at least.


----------



## Robfu (Feb 14, 2012)

DeathKlokk said:


> They all have shields. Those little ones that go by their shoulder-joint.:grin:


was this not the snarky post you used after giving me an infraction on the Crowe post, then looked up this post that had been buried for a month and would have been lost and forgotten.
I wonder why? Was it to goad me into something, was it for you and your friends to bully with?
I mean why would an old forgotten post get drudged up right after our interaction.
Were you fishing for something?
I hope you are entertained with my insane rantings like a moth to a flame.
Maybe its the flame of enlightenment you seek and you see it in me and are fascinated.
I don't know but you brought this and it is on you. 
I know this rant was silly and useless and just for shits and giggles.
Considering the context of what conspired between us and Magpie bringing back up in his post on this thread. 
I do call you Trolls and you live under the bridge of absolutism.


----------



## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

Robfu said:


> was this not the snarky post you used after giving me an infraction on the Crowe post, then looked up this post that had been buried for a month and would have been lost and forgotten.
> I wonder why? Was it to goad me into something, was it for you and your friends to bully with?
> I mean why would an old forgotten post get drudged up right after our interaction.
> Were you fishing for something?
> ...












Using big words doesn't make you sound like you know what you're talking about. It makes you hard to understand


----------



## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Robfu said:


> Considering the context of what conspired between us and Magpie bringing back up in his post on this thread.


eh ?


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I think its time everyone grows up a bit



Locked


----------

