# CSM HQ choices



## Lastik (Jun 15, 2011)

Hey folks it's annoying question time again!

Basically while randomly throwing pigments at my imperial guard regiment and calling it painting, I was thinking of CSM and was wondering if the only competitive choices for HQ are Greater Daemons?

Seems every list I see mentions them with lashes or something.

I was wondering because I have some termies in mid assembly and while I was considering a DA army, chaos is not entirely out of the question and while I know several warbands make use of daemons, not all of them do. So is a chaos / renegade warband that doesn't rely on daemons fluffy yet uncompetitive?


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## Anfo (Jul 17, 2009)

Many people use Daemon Princes as the HQ of choice for CSM. This is because The Lord is almost as if not more expensive than Prince, and the Princes stats are better ect. and the Prince is just as good a psycher as the Sorcerer. 
There is also the summoned Greater Daemon, who has better stats than the Prince, but no upgrades of psychic powers. He need to be summoned by killing a aspiring champion/Lord/Sorcerer. Many poeple don't like this this since you are loosing a decently priced piece for a MC that shows up mid game.

The Lash you talk about is the Lash of Submission. It is a Slaneesh power and allows you to move a unit within 24" a certain number on inches, then pin them. The Sorcerer also can have this power.

A full marine list is how most people play their CSM's it seems. Very few bring anything other that Bezerkers, Obliterators, Rhino's, Daemon Princes and vanilla marines. So if you want a full marine army, it can be fluffy and/or competitive.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Kharn for one is cost effective. Abaddon is nasty but he can be avoided by an astute opponent, and of course he is expensive.
I have had some luck with some more unusual builds. I have used a chaos lord with the mark of tzeench, a deathscreamer and a combi melta, in a rhino with plasma chosen makes for an extremly shooty squad.
Another I really want to try is a khorne lord on a juggernaut with a blood feeder, just to see how he goes.
Point for point though the dp is very potent.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

ive been doing this a lot lately. i write a long message about my oppinions on stuff. then i realize that im just ranting about something that dosent really matter. do any other people do that?
anyways my oppinon summarized into order.
1. daemon princes are the best HQ choice chaos has that is versitile.
2. yes chaos players that use daemon princes with lash are lame, but is it their fault that its the only broken thing we have to compette with newly updated armies.
3. to answer the trolls question about #2 above ^. yes i do use daemon princes with lash.
4. you can run chaos armies without daemons
5. i only really know 1 and that is the Iron Warriors.( i played them in 3.5)
6. yes i realized that #4 and #5 could be clumped together into 1 question, but i dont care its how i wrote it.
hope this helps.
ps. i dont respond to trolling...


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## Mindlessness (Dec 22, 2009)

As stated, DP's are the most versitile for points.
They also serve as cheap fire magnets so your more expensive, and generally better, units can get into place.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

Mindlessness said:


> As stated, DP's are the most versitile for points.
> They also serve as cheap fire magnets so your more expensive, and generally better, units can get into place.


oh yeah forgot about that. they can absorb lots of ap1/2 weapons. it saves your rhinos from wrecks and immobolized.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

5tonsledge said:


> 2. yes chaos players that use daemon princes with lash are lame, but is it their fault that its the only broken thing we have to compette with newly updated armies.


It's not even 'good' against the two newest codices, and usually 'completely useless'. Grey Knights will just shut it down, or kill your Daemon Prince in the first turn or two, and Dark Eldar will either kill you instantly with poison weapons or just stay inside their transports.

Lash is far from broken. The opportunity cost is massive - I'd much rather have Warptime and Mark of Nurgle/no Mark.



5tonsledge said:


> ive been doing this a lot lately. i write a long message about my oppinions on stuff. then i realize that im just ranting about something that dosent really matter. do any other people do that?
> anyways my oppinon summarized into order.
> 1. daemon princes are the best HQ choice chaos has that is versitile. You could argue that Sorcerors are more versatile due to more powers available, but in most situations I'd agree with you.
> 2. yes chaos players that use daemon princes with lash are lame, but is it their fault that its the only broken thing we have to compette with newly updated armies. Who's fault? You say you use DPs with Lash, so are you calling yourself lame? I don't get it.
> ...



Midnight


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## Lastik (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheers for the replies folks. I was asking because I have some termies and a friend of mine that no longer plays has given me his tzeentch screamers (as well as chaos warriors, since he had a small fantasy warband) and I'd hate to see them go to waste.

The HQ question comes because there are bands that while renegade, refuse to have deals with daemons. Out of the top of my head I remember the Night Lords I think and some based around the maelstrom (astral claws was it?), and also because I'll be facing GKs so I'm not too keen on relying too much on psykers/daemons.

In any case I'm simmering on this because I made a promise to avoid starting another army while I still have my IG to paint. The new codex will probably be out before I finish anyway.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Night Lords don't _refuse_ to deal with Daemons, they just don't worship the Chaos Gods. Their 1st Company Captain managed to get some daemonic bodyguards to protect him from psychic attacks and stop psykers from scrying.

Midnight


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Competitive : Lash Prince/Nurgle WT Prince.

Slightly Competitive/Fluffy : MoS Lord with DW (Nids, Nob Biker List), Undivided Lord with DW (Str 5, D6 Attacks, PW), Lash Sorceror hidden in a Rhino or Bezerker/NM Squads, Kharn, Typhus (In large point Games), Abby (Same as Typhus).

Fluffy : Whatever you want, but dont expect to win.

Really how it breaks down. Really Suks but Gav raped us.


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## Lastik (Jun 15, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> Competitive : Lash Prince/Nurgle WT Prince.
> 
> Slightly Competitive/Fluffy : MoS Lord with DW (Nids, Nob Biker List), Undivided Lord with DW (Str 5, D6 Attacks, PW), Lash Sorceror hidden in a Rhino or Bezerker/NM Squads, Kharn, Typhus (In large point Games), Abby (Same as Typhus).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input. For some reason I have the same "got shafted" vibe from the tyranid codex that I do from the CSM ( I have some termagaunts, genestealers and some 2 ed gargoyles and warriors).


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> Competitive : Lash Prince/Nurgle WT Prince.
> 
> Slightly Competitive/Fluffy : MoS Lord with DW (Nids, Nob Biker List), Undivided Lord with DW (Str 5, D6 Attacks, PW), Lash Sorceror hidden in a Rhino or Bezerker/NM Squads, Kharn, Typhus (In large point Games), Abby (Same as Typhus).
> 
> ...


How dare you forget kharn! Anyone that thinks a character under 180pts that packs 6 str5 power weapon attacks that hit on two isn't competitive has to have their head examined. Seriously even with all his draw back he still shit kicks 90% of all other SM characters in a fair fight.

Some people say, yah but he has no eternal warrior which I reply how the hell did the enemy unit have anyone left after him and 9 berzerkers hit them?. Hell I have had kharn and his escort of zerkers double charge two separate marine units of ten and wipe both through combat rez and the 15 dead marines they caused (TO be fair kharn did kill 1 bezerker before he hit the enemy).

I mean run the numbers and most other codex would have him priced well about his current cost.

Ok rant over.

Needless to say the current dex has such weird pricing that you would have to be fairly easy going to not automatically take Kharn/DP/lash sorc or even abby over every other choice for HQ's in the codex. Hell Ahriman cost only 25pts less then abby, but will struggle to accomplish even 25% the damage abby can muster in 1 round of CC. While lords, bile, Lucius are just so underwhelming that their is really no motivation to take them ever.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> Competitive : Lash Prince/Nurgle WT Prince.
> 
> Slightly Competitive/Fluffy : MoS Lord with DW (Nids, Nob Biker List), Undivided Lord with DW (Str 5, D6 Attacks, PW), Lash Sorceror hidden in a Rhino or Bezerker/NM Squads, Kharn, Typhus (In large point Games), Abby (Same as Typhus).
> 
> ...


This^^^^^^^^^^

Why can't I rep you moar Warlock in Training?

Also Kharn is pretty good.


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## XT-1984 (Aug 23, 2011)

Sorcerers have Force Weapons now at least. Personally I have never used a Chaos Lord, his only saving grace is his Daemon Weapon that'll probably wound him and stop him from attacking that round. 

Kharn is pretty awsome, STR 6 on charge and 2d6 AP wrecks Vehicles very nicely.

Daemon Princes are good with wings, although they can be quite fragile.


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

Go fluffy and take Bloodfeeder and a Juggernaught.

Also don't forget that Gav Thorpe introduced CSM's as free from the Suffocating Imperial Doctrine and finally able to explore all the Love their super human bodies can take.

Whatever the hell that means in an army of Super-Men and Cultists in Gimpmasks and Nipple Chains....


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## Lastik (Jun 15, 2011)

Hmmm..... nipple-chains.... :spiteful:


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Not related in any way, but I just got out of the hospital for kidney stones.....the only reason I am making this post is because I am still fairly incoherent from the morphine.


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## Lastik (Jun 15, 2011)

LukeValantine said:


> Not related in any way, but I just got out of the hospital for kidney stones.....the only reason I am making this post is because I am still fairly incoherent from the morphine.



Haaa... then you'll feel right at home in this thread :laugh:
I trust everything went well?


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

> the only reason I am making this post is because I am still fairly incoherent from the morphine.


What's it like to have FnP in real life?


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## Chaos40kAD (Apr 25, 2009)

I read this thread a few times, and I pretty much agree with everything in it. I really like Kharn myself, he's a beast and always fun. That being said, Warhammer 40k is a game, and I play it primarily for Fun. I have a large selection of HQ's because I not only like trying different things, but most of them are !Great! models, and I really enjoy collecting and painting them. 

Yeah you probably aren't going to win any big Tournaments fielding a Khorne Lord with bloodfeeder, but when you get big rolls and crush an entire squad with just his rolls, memories are made! :smoke:

Not to start an auxiliary rant, but CSM's just really aren't that competitive with the current codex creep. I don't play them to be a power gamer and win every game and spit on noobs at the LHS, I play them because I like the stories and the models. 

So I field what I like in friendly games, and if someone always fields power lists, then I pretty much move on and try and find friendly gamers for good fluff games with unique objectives or whatever, always a better experience. 

-Brett


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