# Actual Bolter Damage by author.



## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

Been catching up on my BL reading (Damn my eyes), and every now and again I see a depiction where marines are pouring fire into some man/mutant/monster and the author seems to discount the fact that bolter rounds EXPLODE.

You cannot riddle a humanoid body with bolter shells, they will make you explode like blood sausage.

Concentrated fire into any body mass that the round can penetrate will cause it to EXPLODE on penetration (mass reactive).

You can't get attacked by a creature, 4 marines fire a clip each into it and it falls to the ground with only bullet holes. If the creature is so dense the rounds are too constricted by the surrounding flesh to detonate, chances are the shells cannot penetrate the skin.

We would never kill any orcs like that.

I imagine bolter damage to be the same as cutting someone open, putting a sawed off shotgun in the incision and pulling the trigger.

Utter bloody mess.

This is what Terry Crews had in the AA12 Shotgun "The Expendables', a Mini bolter shell (frag grenade round) : I expect a bolter to be bigger, pointier and FAR more damaging: Video:


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

I'd be willing to bet ogryn, warbosses, and a ton of MCs can take bolt shells with no problem. Then again what do I know, I've never fired a bolter before.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Also got to remember that Bolt shells need to travel a certain distance to prime, otherwise they'll go straight through something before they explode.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

I can imagine that bolters would be useless against Orks.

The only way to stop the spores is to burn the bodies.... which is hard if there are no bodies to burn.


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

Imperious said:


> I'd be willing to bet ogryn, warbosses, and a ton of MCs can take bolt shells with no problem. Then again what do I know, I've never fired a bolter before.


Define take..

Take as in bounce off, or take as in penetrate but not explode ?

No matter how dense or flesh is, if the round goes in, it will explode. If the tissue is superdense, it will do minimal damage, but you will not get a through and through wound like a steel jacketed round.


Either:

Rounds travel a certain distance (based off some electronic sensor): unlikely
Rounds have a mass reactive sensor (hit the tip with enough force it will explode)
Rounds have an ignition timer (fuse), that explodes naturally after the round hase travelled a certain distance (based on how fast the fuse burns)

I don't have any Codexes, can some one say what the official word is ?


"mass-reactive shells known as bolts, which are timed to explode just after penetration for maximum lethality. The standard bolt is .75 calibre with a super-dense metallic core and diamantine tip."

Which indicates after they meet enough resistance they explode, like hitting a friction match with a hammer.

"It is possible that the creation of this projectile was motivated by the ancient first encounters with the alien Orks, *whose massive frames and tendency to ignore pain render solid projectiles ineffective*"


So, it seems as i thought, the round fires, meets enough resistance and the charge goes off.

If you are firing it into a creature and he is not dropping, and the shells are not exiting, it means they are encountering enough resistance to explode, or the creature is made out of jelly..


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

I'd go so far as to say, that beings with extremely dense flesh would be damaged of course, but not fatally so. Now a human or ork? They're toast.


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

I concur, but I was reading about a humanoid creature, about a space marine in size (I think) 4 marines emptied clips into it while it attacked, and it fell dead near them.

Kinda jerked me out of the story...

The shells penetrated, but no mention of the fact that the inside of the thing would be shredded meat.

The big one is a .75 Round.. That is what a bolter fires, half of it is explosives.

You cannot empty 4 bolters into a marine sized creature, have them penetrate and not shred the creature like confetti.

Imagine having a killer whale swallow about 80 grenades (assuming each bolter holds twenty) , even if the outside of it is intact, every vital organ is ground-up mince. It would leak blood and juices from every orifice.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

the correct definition is "caseless, mass-reactive, deuterium core" rounds. basically as they are portrayed in the new ultramarines movie. they fly, until sufficient force is applied to the tip to overcome the rounds inertia, and then it ignites and explodes. Although some authors seem to portray it as a solid slug in certain scenarios and its descriptions, although the official definition is that of above.

cheers

CP


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

KingOfCheese said:


> I can imagine that bolters would be useless against Orks.
> 
> The only way to stop the spores is to burn the bodies.... which is hard if there are no bodies to burn.


Well according to the very brief lore about the Pre-Emperor age it is explained that Bolters were invented for the sole purpose of killing Orks. When humanity first reached the stars we still had weapons as we do in modern times today, and they were utterly and completely useless against the Orks, thus the Bolter's explosive shell was the only thing that could truly pose a threat to them.

Bolter shells must travel a certain distance before they can explode, so they aren't great in close combat unless the wielder can pull off a shot through a vital organ like the brain, but against Orks thats completely pointless. But there are situations when Bolt rounds don't explode, maybe a failure in the bullet itself, or divine intervention.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> Well according to the very brief lore about the Pre-Emperor age it is explained that Bolters were invented for the sole purpose of killing Orks.


Well, its good short-term, but it will only help spread the spores which in the long term just makes things worse.


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

I think that the "Travel a certain distance only" thing might also be a slight mistake.

I am certain I have seen that in novels as well.

Based on the definition of how the bolt rounds work, it is not travel a certain distance then blow, it is travel and arm then explode on meeting enough mass to trigger the detonation.

They may sound similiar, but there are slight diffferences.

ie.



> "Astyanax fired his bolter in rapid precision at the berserk Chas cultists as they rounded the hill and swarmed his position."



If it blew after a certain distance ONLY, what would happen is that it would penetrate the human bodies until it reached far enough to explode.

The shell is defined as "mass reactive" ie. reacts to mass, ie needs to meet enough resistance to prime and explode the charge.

So what would happen according to the definition is that the round would penetrate enough bodies till it met enough resistance to explode.

It is a small difference, but it makes a difference depending on how the author uses it.

For example.

If it was distance ONLY, and you had a Psyker possessing a marine and using his own weapon to commit suicide, what would happen is the round would penetrate and pass through the marines skull and detonate in the sky.

Would should Correctly happen is that the round goes into his head, and detonates after the shell is armed by meeting enough resistance by passing through his dense flesh and bone.
Like what happened to Marduk.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

I think it works on the same principal as an RPG, which requires about 30ft to arm.

More to make sure the guy dont fuck himself up.


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

i see no reason for the rounds to arm, im sure theyre comlicated enough not to go of in flight, the mass of a ork being different to that of flight in air.

also imho a tough hide/ tough skin would stop the shells going through and through, the shell would go off inside the body and not always blow it to peaces. 

shooting at IG would blow them to tiny bits but orks and those in armour would not fall to bits cos the bits would be held inside the body armour, skin or shell


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

If the rounds didnt arm then how would they go off or stop said shooter blowing his hands of if it jams in the barrel? 

Say, for some reason the barrel is blocked, imagine it hitting that mid barrel and exploding.

So if it had a arming mechanism at least then it would just jam and not explode and cook of all the rounds in the mag.


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

> I think it works on the same principal as an RPG, which requires about 30ft to arm.
> 
> More to make sure the guy dont fuck himself up.


No that is not right.... Else close combat, they would be useless.

I do agree that the tough skin of some creatures would prevent them from being blown to bits, but internally they would be fucked up from the shrapnel.


@WorldEater..Did you read what Ploss and the others said on the previous page ?

The GamesWorkshop defintion is "Mass-reactive"

It means they hit something with enough force and that triggers the explosion... Jamming in the barrel wouldn't cause the tip to hit a thing, so it wouldn't arm. using a stick to poke it when it is stuck in the barrel would definately cause it to arm and explode, killing you and the stick.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

If the barrel is blocked with something that can stop the bolt, im pretty sure it would explode, as i dont think the bolt rounds are smart enough to tell the difference between shit in a barrel and hitting someone in the face.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I'm not a fan of the "has to travel X distance to arm". It should be an impact-driven detonation. The problem is that the bolter was first described before such concepts were commonplace, and retcons are not always popular.

Such is life.

Additionally, I don't even register Astartes firing their bolters in bursts anymore, unless they're dealing with Orks, Tyrannids, Necrons, or other Astartes. Against Eldar, Guardsmen, etc., it's just pointless overkill. Furthermore, when you consider how few rounds each clip is; how large said clip is; and how hard it would be to carry more than a few such clips, bursts just make no sense to me. I see Space Marines engaging 95% of the time with well aimed, devastating single shots of their exploding ammunition.

Where Orks are concerned, I don't see this as an issue. They don't process or react pain as we do, and they are chock-full of redundant systems.


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## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

I believe that there are many different type of Bolter rounds, like grenades that certain lauchers nowadays have.

Bolter round is basically like a miniature grenade. If main thing is for ammo that on contact explodes, it would be very dangerous ammo to use. Just some shit in barrel and thats it, it blows on your face. Many modern grenade launchers have ammo that takes travel time to protect users from accidently killing themselves. I believe first rounds of these types were introduced about Vietnam war era, when few people accidently shot round on ground next to their feet and blew themselves up. I believe there must be different Bolter ammo used on many different Chapters.

.75 caliber is like what, 20mm or something? Concussive blast radius is very small, maybe just few meters. But penetrating persons body and then explode would be fatal to anyone, except biggest creatures.

I believe "standard" Bolter ammo would take few about 5meters of flight time to arm and when contact something, sends fuse which just explodes very shortly after. Even when fired at close-combat distances without exploding, ammo this heavy would have enough kinetic force to kill almost anyone.


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

if the gun jams and the shell hits a bloackage in the barrel the barrel may be able to cope with that


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## Turkeyspit (Jun 11, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> I see Space Marines engaging 95% of the time with well aimed, devastating single shots of their exploding ammunition.


I agree with this, but sadly, I don't see it in the fiction.

In my mind, the large caliber of the bolt round, its mass-reactive nature, and the heightened senses and reflexes (and therefore targeting ability) of an Astartes, render automatic fire to be unnecessary. I don't really see the Bolter as a proper tool for suppressive fire, nor can I see an Astartes relying on such a tactic; that is what their enhanced strength, reflexes, speed and powered armor are for, and if heavy suppressive fire is needed, you call in some Devestator Squads equipped with heavy bolters.

And yet, book after book, I read about Astartes firing their bolters, and worse, their bolt-pistols, in automatic bursts.

But I find a lot of what I read in BL novels regarding technology to be objectionable. For instance, in _Storm of Iron_, Graham repeatedly refers to Astartes 'cocking the hammer' of their bolt pistol. Really? Ugh.

With such a vast array of authors playing in the same sandbox, contradictions and anomalies are inevitable.


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

Which is my original point. The bullets are HUGE, High Explosive with armour peircing SUPER dense tips.

There are also not that many rounds to a bolter.

So emptying them again and again into something would not only defy logic, but would be wasteful to the extreme.

If you attack something, the rounds penetrate and explode, and it still coming, stop firing and use a blade/power weapon, or take it on hand to hand if needed.

A SM is the equivalent of a Sniper veteran mingled with a reflexes pro gamer on a red bull binge. Single accurate shots nearly 99% of the time.

Do the BL Authors have to do a primer on equipment before they get authorised ?

I mean most of us readers have some familiarity with the base world physics/tech that we are reading about, and it is very jarring when we read something that is out of place like Sardines in a tin of Milo.

If Graham is talking about bolters being 'cocked' he needs to do some penance....

Is there some continuity overlord council that makes sure at least the mechanical fundamental things are consistent.

Like the teacher from Hogwarts;

'Bolter rounds are not bullets! Bolters cannot be 'cocked', a bolter does not have 200 rounds per clip' 

Type it 1000 times BL Authors


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

imho when i was reading one of the sw books the main dude was shooting his bolt gun on full auto into a horde of traitor guardsmen

well i saw it that even on full auto it was one bullet one kill....or more tbh, the bullets were cutting 2-3 down per bullet... 

one persons body didnt appear to be setting the bolt round off but by the 3rd or 4th they were exploding, sometimes in mid air.......OMFG SOD THAT FOR A GAME OF LAUGHS!!!! amazing weapon, all they need is a chainsaw type bayonett and itd be the best gun ever in any game ever


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Hellados said:


> one persons body didnt appear to be setting the bolt round off but by the 3rd or 4th they were exploding, sometimes in mid air.......OMFG SOD THAT FOR A GAME OF LAUGHS!!!! amazing weapon, all they need is a *chainsaw type bayonett* and itd be the best gun ever in any game ever


highlighted the bit that counts...

You mean these?
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamm...s/SPACE-MARINE-BOLTER-PHOBOS-PATTERN-X10.html

:biggrin:


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

omfg i need those on ALL MY BA!!! theyre amazing!! i was actually thinking of the gears of war guns in some kind of 40k mmo, mmorpg, fps or something  

ive always seen one 'shot' in 40k to represent one burst of ammo cos i doubt it would take just one round to take down an ork, yes the marines are bad arse but then so is everything else in the galaxy or the guards would use flash lights on them, not the elite astrates


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

nestersan said:


> If Graham is talking about bolters being 'cocked' he needs to do some penance....
> 
> Is there some continuity overlord council that makes sure at least the mechanical fundamental things are consistent.
> 
> ...


Why wouldnt bolters need to be cocked? surley gotta but a round in the chamber somehow?

Im assuming here bolter works on the principal of a bolt assembly that is pushed back by gasses that then feed the next round into a chamber by pushing said bolt assembly back?


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

From the descriptions, the bolter has a minimum of gases used, cause the shell starts to accelerate after it leaves the barrel because of the rocket motor. The round has just enough conventional powder( or the 40K) equivalent to get it out of the barrel.

Remember the barrel is not even rifled, it is smooth bore like a modern tank shell.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I think this is pretty accurate...

Midnight


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## AK74Bob (Oct 2, 2010)

1 bolter round would be more than enough to kill an elephant. Even without detonation a bolter round would deliver an insane amount of energy into its target. Most likely it would just penetrate right through a target like an ork, which is just a big humanoid target and most likely said ork would die quickly from a shattered spinal cord/massive trauma/and all of its blood emptying out of its body in a matter of seconds. You hit anything center mass with a .75 caliber round and it will die quickly. 50 caliber rounds are known for cutting people in half, so I imagine 75 caliber bullets would probably make for good T-rex/blue whale hunting.


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

I read yet another story where SM got spooked and emptied the clip on MUTANT RATS.... :angry:

Also, the writer seems to think that the bolter rounds would ricochet off of the sewer walls and make pretty red sparks as they bounce around.... :shok: 


Someone please give them a primer on SM ammunition...

Writers: Think high velocity armour piercing grenade not M-16 bullets. PLEASE !!


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