# Is 40k progressing more realistic now?



## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Now that Games Workshop is advancing the timeline of Warhammer Fantasy battles.

It certainly was a suprise that they pulled this one, but judging from what they are producing for The End Times, its looking pretty epic. So far it seems to be well recieved, which leaves me feeling its a trial run for the same thing in Warhammer 40k eventually.

Would make a lot of sense if we will be seeing it when the Horus Heresy series wraps up with the Siege of Terra in some years and moving to the second comming of the Emperor for the Age of Ending.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Brother Lucian said:


> Now that Games Workshop is advancing the timeline of Warhammer Fantasy battles.
> 
> It certainly was a suprise that they pulled this one, but judging from what they are producing for The End Times, its looking pretty epic. So far it seems to be well recieved, which leaves me feeling its a trial run for the same thing in Warhammer 40k eventually.
> 
> Would make a lot of sense if we will be seeing it when the Horus Heresy series wraps up with the Siege of Terra in some years and moving to the second comming of the Emperor for the Age of Ending.


I really doubt they would move the timeline pass 40999, unless they change the name to warhammer 40Ks


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Some cain books is set past that date.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Brother Lucian said:


> Some cain books is set past that date.


There are those, but I think that's the only instance and it's not really intentional..


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I'd love if they did, but I doubt it. I reckon we'll be left on the brink, waiting for something to happen. 

I do like the tone of the fluff in the SW codex and Wraight's two SW novels. It looks as if they really believe they are in the end times already, and are gearing up for the shit to hit the fan in an Imperium-ending scale. And we know who they think is gonna come back for the end times. 

On top of that, over on Baal, Dante is on a massive downer, and Mephiston could be on the verge of sprouting horns. 

The 13th Black Crusade is still going strong, Ghazkul is still stomping shit around the Armageddon system, and more tomb worlds are waking every day, and they still haven't fixed the golden toilet. And then there's the Shadow in the Warp. 

However, the fact that the new edition makes no move forward on the 6th Ed book can be looked at in two ways; either they simply aren't moving forward at all, or they didn't put it in because they were saving it all for a similar supplement to Nagash. 

If they are going to do something similar, who would be the main protagonist? If they are going to do something of a similar scale it would at the very least need to be a demon primarch, I think. Abaddon just doesn't cut it for me any more.


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## Tyrannus (Sep 19, 2010)

Khorne's Fist said:


> If they are going to do something similar, who would be the main protagonist? If they are going to do something of a similar scale it would at the very least need to be a demon primarch, I think. Abaddon just doesn't cut it for me any more.


I'd understand this sentiment if this came before they announced a book series on Abbadon's rise to power to become the bringer of the End Times. So all I can say is that it's a bit silly to now say "Abbadon just doesn't cut it for me" now that they are about to properly flesh out his character and explain why he is the 40k equivalent of the Antichrist. I mean the first book just came out a few days ago for goodness sake! 

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I HIGHLY recommend reading the Talon of Horus. It's ADB at his best and it's just such a good read.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Tyrannus said:


> I'd understand this sentiment if this came before they announced a book series on Abbadon's rise to power to become the bringer of the End Times. So all I can say is that it's a bit silly to now say "Abbadon just doesn't cut it for me" now that they are about to properly flesh out his character and explain why he is the 40k equivalent of the Antichrist. I mean the first book just came out a few days ago for goodness sake!
> 
> EDIT: Forgot to mention, I HIGHLY recommend reading the Talon of Horus. It's ADB at his best and it's just such a good read.


Wouldn't a more apt analogy be like Archon, in fantasy, the 'greatest' chaos warlord in history and one seen as being able to destroy the Imperium (Empire) once and for all. The whole thing in the Big book made it seem like 41000 would be a floodgate opening.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Tyrannus said:


> I'd understand this sentiment if this came before they announced a book series on Abbadon's rise to power to become the bringer of the End Times. So all I can say is that it's a bit silly to now say "Abbadon just doesn't cut it for me" now that they are about to properly flesh out his character and explain why he is the 40k equivalent of the Antichrist. I mean the first book just came out a few days ago for goodness sake! .


If you actually read what I said you'll see I mentioned that If it was going to be a_ similar scale_ as Nagash, Abaddon just doesn't match up. We have two minis for him. He's just a big terminator. The Nagash mini is bigger than a knight Titan. So I repeat, the only thing similar in 40k is a demon primarch.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Khorne's Fist said:


> If you actually read what I said you'll see I mentioned that If it was going to be a_ similar scale_ as Nagash, Abaddon just doesn't match up. We have two minis for him. He's just a big terminator. The Nagash mini is bigger than a knight Titan. So I repeat, the only thing similar in 40k is a demon primarch.


OR.....uber nid.....god that would be AWESOME!


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Well theres the Swarmlord, the current ubernid
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Swarmlord


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

Ynead!


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## Tyrannus (Sep 19, 2010)

Khorne's Fist said:


> If you actually read what I said you'll see I mentioned that If it was going to be a_ similar scale_ as Nagash, Abaddon just doesn't match up. We have two minis for him. He's just a big terminator. The Nagash mini is bigger than a knight Titan. So I repeat, the only thing similar in 40k is a demon primarch.


Ahh, apologies. I didn't think you were being literal and talking about miniature size when you said "similar scale".


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Brother Lucian said:


> Well theres the Swarmlord, the current ubernid
> http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Swarmlord


An ubernid that makes him look like a toddler. One that can control Hive Fleets.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Ciaphas Cain is considered as strong canon as it comes. So I guess the IOM survives into the M42 as Sandy has been able to get away with that bit of fluff for ages now. I mean the thirteenth black crusade looks to be another failure or limited success depending on your POV when it comes to Abbaddon as I have those that can't even manage to see some humor in the setting very far up my throat.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Beaviz81 said:


> I mean the thirteenth black crusade looks to be *another* failure


That's a very outdated view these days... :laugh:


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## Angel of Lies (Oct 10, 2011)

Meh it would be more entertaining if Abaddon crushes the Imperium on Cadia and the EoT doubles in size. Only to hit another series of Necron pylons (as yet) undiscovered. 

The roar of rage from Abaddon would be humorous if nothing else.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Brother Lucian said:


> Some cain books is set past that date.


I must concur Brother Lucian, more and more Warhammer 40k novel writers are turning to the future and the possibility that it holds.

It honestly peturbs me that Games Workshop has allowed both the 40k and Fantasy series to stagnat because they want to hold to a set dateline and not allow creative minds to explore new regions of the Fluff. The same problem faced Star Trek fans once upon a time, until "Star Trek: The Next Generation" took it to a whole new level. Star Wars faced the same situation through the 90's until we finally reached the "Phantom Menance". Then suddenly Star Wars fictions writers went overboard and creative a totally alternate future from what George Lucas had wanted. Zorgga the Hutt, Admiral Thrawn, and finally the YuZha'Vong(prob spelt that wrong). Why not let Warhammer 40k expand officially into the 42nd; just imagine the novels that would be written, the characters created, the plot lines developed, the future that has yet to be written.

Anyway that's my shpeil on the issue. I doubt they will get there, let alone allow it there.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

emporershand89 said:


> I must concur Brother Lucian, more and more Warhammer 40k novel writers are turning to the future and the possibility that it holds.
> 
> It honestly peturbs me that Games Workshop has allowed both the 40k and Fantasy series to stagnat because they want to hold to a set dateline and not allow creative minds to explore new regions of the Fluff. The same problem faced Star Trek fans once upon a time, until "Star Trek: The Next Generation" took it to a whole new level. Star Wars faced the same situation through the 90's until we finally reached the "Phantom Menance". Then suddenly Star Wars fictions writers went overboard and creative a totally alternate future from what George Lucas had wanted. Zorgga the Hutt, Admiral Thrawn, and finally the YuZha'Vong(prob spelt that wrong). Why not let Warhammer 40k expand officially into the 42nd; just imagine the novels that would be written, the characters created, the plot lines developed, the future that has yet to be written.
> 
> Anyway that's my shpeil on the issue. I doubt they will get there, let alone allow it there.


The problem with advancing the timeline is that it's going to go one of two ways.

All factions are going to be devastated worlds are going to be destroyed and heros killed.
Anyone that escapes are going to be suffering from fan outrage.

The only other way to do it is give the favorite armies plot armor which takes away from the grimdark setting.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> That's a very outdated view these days...


So is your entire viewpoint. Nuff said.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Beaviz81 said:


> So is your entire viewpoint. Nuff said.


See, to be a successful troll, you actually have to throw in some meaningful comments before going back to full troll mode. if you're always trolling, you're never trolling, if you know what I mean?

OT: I don't know if it's more "realistic". Rather than realistic, I supposed more...filled out(?) would be a better term.

We're getting more information on what all the factions want and how they're trying to get it. How it pans out...we'll have to wait and see.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Reaper45 said:


> fan outrage.














hailene said:


> See, to be a successful troll, you actually have to throw in some meaningful comments before going back to full troll mode.


Shut ya trolling nonsense hailene. It was a friendly punt. Sheesh don't kill the good vibe here, I was enjoying the conversation with these lovely gentlemen. 



Reaper45 said:


> All factions are going to be devastated worlds


Anyway back to point. Reaper, and fellow Heretics, I cannot agree. I don't see Games Workshop doing what Mass Effect did to it's series; ending it. Seldom do Companies kill off cash cows that bring in their Income. Plus imagine the Strike the writers and Sci-Fi Intellectuals would have if the final expansions came along. It would be a riot.










No my friend's it will live on, the question is in which direction do you think GW will take it. Further into Hell or further into Heaven? Realism be damned as everyone is doing it nowadays. It is more about how well the Plot lines and characters/events are shaped that define the good, the bad, and the ugly.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

emporershand89 said:


> Shut ya trolling nonsense hailene. It was a friendly punt. Sheesh don't kill the good vibe here, I was enjoying the conversation with these lovely gentlemen.


You clearly have no idea about what your talking about, so take your own advice and shut up. @Beaviz81 has made it clear in the past that he believes little or nothing @Child-of-the-Emperor says regardless of its source or how much the information he posts is supported.

So no, it wasn't a friendly 'punt' as you like to call it; whatever the fuck that actually means.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

darkreever said:


> So no, it wasn't a friendly 'punt' as you like to call it; whatever the fuck that actually means


It means when you post responses like that it shows you missed the humorous point and took the words "literally" from my mouth Mr. Reever. Anyway i have a beautiful Nurse next to me with Honey crusted Glazed donuts so I'm gonna run.

Be Jealous


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

emporershand89 said:


> It means when you post responses like that it shows you missed the humorous point and took the words "literally" from my mouth Mr. Reever. Anyway i have a beautiful Nurse next to me with Honey crusted Glazed donuts so I'm gonna run.
> 
> Be Jealous


Reality:


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

Someone change the threadname to 'is 40k trolling more realistic now?' Cause this thread is about to slip.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

The problem with Heresy not being warseer or dakka, or whatever other warhammer you put on, is that despite majority being decent people who like to actually swear without being banned, you get some cunts who don't fit in at warseer for the same reason they don't fit in here.

They're idiots. You see two specimens in this thread.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Getting the thread back on track, I've long wanted the storyline to advance. However, the idea of a "Nagash-trend" isn't a bad idea.

Currently we have 30k and 40k essentially. If they made a supplement rulebook to allow you to play 41k with your 40k models, wouldn't that be interesting? It could play as the same armies but with different rules and perhaps some changes to the heroes and gear.

Maybe it's just me dreaming. But we already have 2 time periods where multiple models can exist - Why not add a third down the line?


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

It's impossible to continue the storyline as that's what's the tabletop gaming is for. GW has created its background and setting so the hobbyist gamers can continue from that to either create fluffy-armies or fluff of their own.

To continue the story á la Star Trek way would mean nothing is permanent and that would be like updating it with new things every year. Heck just introducing the Grey Knight walker and Centurion armour made fans cry out because it changed the setting too much. I prefer that they flesh out everything between and let the gamers decide for themselves what happens after midnight strikes 12.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

forkmaster said:


> I prefer that they flesh out everything between and let the gamers decide for themselves what happens after midnight strikes 12.


Though the result of the 13th Black Crusade is already out there and told. It was a campaign a few editions back if I recall correctly (it was before my time).

A short version of the result is here: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/13th_Black_Crusade 
The campaign was named "Eye of Terror": http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Eye_of_Terror_Campaign

So I think the reason the timeline is kept where it is, is due to GW knowing how much people love the current setting. This is also why a "campaign" book might be a good idea, so it's kept in 7th edition and the players can choose to play before or after the 13th Black Crusade.

It's a interesting thought at least.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Nordicus said:


> So I think the reason the timeline is kept where it is, is due to GW knowing how much people love the current setting. This is also why a "campaign" book might be a good idea, so it's kept in 7th edition and the players can choose to play before or after the 13th Black Crusade.


But the setting won't change all that much if they did bring some things to a head of moved the plot along. The Imperium would still be on the brink, and shit would still be grimdark. We'd just know a bit more about where the story is heading. As it is we've pretty much stagnated since 5th Ed.

EDIT: On top of that, GW don't give a shit about what people love or don't love. They have admitted as much many times, and do no market research.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Nordicus said:


> Though the result of the 13th Black Crusade is already out there and told. It was a campaign a few editions back if I recall correctly (it was before my time).
> 
> A short version of the result is here: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/13th_Black_Crusade
> The campaign was named "Eye of Terror": http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Eye_of_Terror_Campaign
> ...


As far as I know, that campaign has been retconned according to all BL authors I've spoken with about it.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

forkmaster said:


> As far as I know, that campaign has been retconned according to all BL authors I've spoken with about it.


Oh? I've never heard about that. Got any sources as that would be a damn shame in my opinion


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Yes, the whole Eye of Terror Campaign was written off a while back. 


As for something Nagash-esque rocking the 40k universe, it'd be pretty sweet but also impossible to keep everyone happy at the same time. Not that I think that would bother them, but 40k simply has too many big players for any one of them to just rise up and auto intimidate the rest. Plus from a story telling perspective, you need something that's really going to shake things up and make everyone take notice. 

With factions like orks, tyranids and necrons, too many simply aren't going to care if some renowned primarch returns, or the most exalted of all daemon princes takes to the Cadian Gate. 

When you weigh mankind's struggle with Chaos against things like the Fall of the Eldar or the War in Heaven, it just seems piddly. For a campaign like this to really have an effect it needs to be something that genuinely threatens everyone, like a massive new hive fleet rocking up that dwarfs the other three combined, or some grand necron fuck-up that sees the c'tan loosed on the galaxy once more. 

GW introduced these factions to be big and scary, and they've since become the biggest and scariest. Time to make something of it rather than shove them to the wayside and forget about them.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> Yes, the whole Eye of Terror Campaign was written off a while back.


That whole clusterfuck still makes me :laugh:


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

forkmaster said:


> to all BL authors I've spoken with about it.


Sources, I would be very interested to see who you know. Sandy Mitchell by any chance?










Here is the funny part, I don't even use Facebook. Believe me or not I'm still a honest to goodness MySpace user (or was until 2 years ago). Social Media is really not my thing, I spend too much time with the Steam Development community or the Law Enforce schools. But good Trolling LOL. Jeez even a joke never makes it past you. It never ceases to amaze me how much Trolling you guys get away with here. Yet when I utter one word of dissent and it's apparent wrong and "offensive"? Very confusing message there.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

emporershand89 said:


> Sources, I would be very interested to see who you know. Sandy Mitchell by any chance?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of the reasons I post on this forum, is due to its lack of trolling. Unlike most other forums...this one is relatively free of trolling.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Lux said:


> One of the reasons I post on this forum, is due to its lack of trolling. Unlike most other forums...this one is relatively free of trolling.


You know what they say. If you can't tell who the troll is, it's probably you.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Did you put your penis through the doughtnut hole emperorshand89? Then get your nurse to eat it off without licking her lips?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Khorne's Fist said:


> You know what they say. If you can't tell who the troll is, it's probably you.


All trolls have been eradicated from this forum, we truly have reached a state of utopic perfection.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Lux said:


> All trolls have been eradicated from this forum, we truly have reached a state of utopic perfection.


Agreed and you know what every utopia needs.... a self appointed almighty rule.......I appoint myself...I know I'm humbled to accept the title of LORD OF ALL HERESY.

Back on topic the Brotherhood of Snakes seem to be pretty good with humans, but I think their fortress was located near a city.


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## Veteran Sergeant (May 17, 2012)

Vaz said:


> The problem with Heresy not being warseer or dakka, or whatever other warhammer you put on, is that despite majority being decent people who like to actually swear without being banned, you get some cunts who don't fit in at warseer for the same reason they don't fit in here.
> 
> They're idiots. You see two specimens in this thread.


Haha, I was banned on Warseer (probably had something to do with me telling off their admin for encouraging trolling). Aside from its hobby area, that place is such a shithole. Though Dakka is pretty close in its "General" and "Background" communities, again because there are moderators who encourage trolling by protecting bad behavior.

That said, 40K isn't going anywhere. Like I've posited before, the 13th Black Crusade campaign being shitcanned probably has as much to do with the product direction as anything else. If anyone _actually_ thought the setting was going to radically alter either way was fooling themselves. I don't think anyone on the team thought it would be possible to game the system like the Chaos players did, so they probably expected it to end up fairly even.

But was GW going to allow Cadia to be conquered (thus having to rebrand all of their Cadian IGuard figures)? Heh. Was Chaos going to break out and conquer Terra? Please. They'd have just lost somewhere else down the line and we'd have gotten a "Cadian Crusade" campaign instead, and everything would have reset to zero.

Because that's the sustaining truth of 40K, across pretty much the 21ish years of "modern 40K" (starting with the fluff consolidation in 2nd Edition). No change. 

And that's because 40K isn't really a story. Sure, stories happen in 40K. But 40K is a setting for you to play with expensive plastic toy soldiers, and that setting's overarching narrative is there for the players to create their own stories alongside that shared narrative space. 

There's not _reason_ to push the story forward. Sure, some players want to know "what happens next", but for every person clamoring for what's next, there are probably ten who are just happy to continue playing with their toy soldiers in the status quo. After all, there are 10,000 years worth of history to explore in 40K. 

Besides. What would actually happen in 000.M42? Nothing. It's not suddenly going to change because the calendar rolls over 1 place.

Fantasy can talk about "The End of Times" all it wants. But no times are actually going to end.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Then there's also the fact that no matter what fantasy is never going to be on the same scale as 40K It's a single planet meaning that there's always going to be a limit as to what forces can be brought to bear. Meaning that a small group is always going to be able to affect the outcome.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Reaper45 said:


> Then there's also the fact that no matter what fantasy is never going to be on the same scale as 40K It's a single planet meaning that there's always going to be a limit as to what forces can be brought to bear. Meaning that a small group is always going to be able to affect the outcome.


I had never considered this. That is a awesome point, well made.

Cookie to you good sir.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Define small. Despite you talking of galactic scale warfare, it's little more than still boiling down to one conflict in a particular location. That city can be Middenheim, or it can be the Gates of Terra.

Gorthor the beastlord killed "millions" (although that maybe hyperbole, authors perspective as if they were the beastlord bigging things up, or the author being a complete twat, all of which are possible). There is 15,000 years of history and conflict to back up on, with endless daemons whenever the writers wish thanks to two polar gates and the great Magical storms which whip across the world.

The "scale" is no different other than numbers on a map. The number of villages, border fortresses, towns, dwarf holds, elven colonies, temple cities, etc which have been destroyed in published literature probably outnumbers the 40K novels number of destroyed planets or cities, and they serve the exact same purpose. Those "millions" which were killed were still the same drop in the ocean as the half dozen villagers who were killed in the nameless village at the start of "Archaon; Everchosen".

The only time you actually get a scale of how bad things have gone is in the 30K novels - and that is not down to the nature of how some backwater shithole like Pythos was taken by Chaos, but by the events happening where entire legions are being split in two. The first two novels which saw the traitor legions decimate (and that word has lost its meaning through over use - but I literally mean, decimate - as in, kill 1 in every 10) their own ranks to kill the "loyalists", where forces which not only outnumber our own military, but are ultrahumans, let alone superhumans are fighting amongst themselves having conquered the stars. In 40K, I'm sorry to say that feeling is lost as it's "just another world", similar to how it's "just another town" and that the meaningful locations to the players can't be touched.

How would you like it as a Space Wolf player to be told that your entire chapter was wiped out during the defence of the Cadian Gate? Or that the Ulthwe Craftworld had been destroyed, and all were lost? It's the same thing with saying that Middenheim was destroyed by Archaon, so now you may no longer field Knights of the White Wolf, etc.

There is no difference between the scales other than imaginary zeroes.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

hailene said:


> See, to be a successful troll, you actually have to throw in some meaningful comments before going back to full troll mode. if you're always trolling, you're never trolling, if you know what I mean?
> 
> OT: I don't know if it's more "realistic". Rather than realistic, I supposed more...filled out(?) would be a better term.
> 
> We're getting more information on what all the factions want and how they're trying to get it. How it pans out...we'll have to wait and see.


I'm sorry, but I have a personal low opinion of CotE. And I'm accused of trolling just for making it public. I'm sorry but I tend to have a very low opinion about people I disagree with, and when he cracks a joke at my expense I elect to take exception and hit back. It's the common law about mirroring, you reap what you sow. And trust me, I'm all into mirroring.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

How about instead you stick him on ignore.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Beaviz81 said:


> I'm sorry, but I have a personal low opinion of CotE. And I'm accused of trolling just for making it public. I'm sorry but I tend to have a very low opinion about people I disagree with, and when he cracks a joke at my expense I elect to take exception and hit back. It's the common law about mirroring, you reap what you sow. And trust me, I'm all into mirroring.


LOL, works every time 



Lux said:


> One of the reasons I post on this forum, is due to its lack of trolling. Unlike most other forums...this one is relatively free of trolling.


I agree, it is...relatively...troll free. However heated debates still rage in the dark corners of Jezlad's creation. I'd almost say......



Vaz said:


> Did you put your penis through the doughtnut hole emperorshand89? Then get your nurse to eat it off without licking her lips?


Oh my Goodness; TROLL ALERT! TROLL ALERT!! 

On a side note they were delicious, right from Honey Dew Donuts shop on Temple Street. Good stuff. 



locustgate said:


> Agreed and you know what every utopia needs.... a self appointed almighty rule.......


Like this guy. Seriously he started his own Country within the U.S (Nevada) call the Republic of Molossia. Read it, it's either the crazy work of a man with too much time on his hands, or a citizens who actually got away with breaking the law (I think).

http://www.molossia.org/

BTW +1 Rep for you Mr. Veteran Sergeant, my hats off to you sir. Couldn't have said it better myself. I would only disagree on the point of reseting to Zero without a new playing field but in general you made the point.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Vaz said:


> Define small. Despite you talking of galactic scale warfare, it's little more than still boiling down to one conflict in a particular location. That city can be Middenheim, or it can be the Gates of Terra.
> 
> Gorthor the beastlord killed "millions" (although that maybe hyperbole, authors perspective as if they were the beastlord bigging things up, or the author being a complete twat, all of which are possible). There is 15,000 years of history and conflict to back up on, with endless daemons whenever the writers wish thanks to two polar gates and the great Magical storms which whip across the world.
> 
> ...


Honestly I'm not going to argue with this, both systems tend to ignore logic in place of rule of cool.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Beaviz81 said:


> It's the common law about mirroring, you reap what you sow. And trust me, I'm all into mirroring.


Still waiting for the part where you bring up valid in universe sources combined with insightful (or at least logical) rhetoric.

But, hey, copy the part where he mocks you for talking out of your butt. We can't all be perfect.

The latest example of this happening is, to my memory, in the "Ultramarine Casualties at Calth" where you try to convience everyone (and failing) that the Ultramarines only lost 10-20% of their men at Calth despite CotE (and others, myself included) citing directly from _Know no Fear_ that the Ultramarines almost certainty lost considerably more than that.

I did notice that when CotE gave some pretty explicit and detailed citations you mysteriously disappeared.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

emporershand89 said:


> Sources, I would be very interested to see who you know. Sandy Mitchell by any chance?


Well okay wrong use of plural, but ADB has made quite a few comments about it and even a very detailed post on his blog as his novel _Cadian Blood_ will be having problems for canon and Rob Saunders also confirmed in a interview that it might difficult to continue the storyline from _Atlas Infernal_.


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