# plasma gun vs grenade launcher



## chillitownairman (Dec 11, 2009)

Im just starting a guard army and am trying to decide between using plasma guns and grenade launchers. I like plasmas ability to kill marines, but am cautious due to the potential death the model. I also like the versitility of the grenade launcher (having frag and krak rounds at any time). So tell me your thoughts and give me your reasons.


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Well plasma is strong and its low AP can deny any marine or equal an armour save, but it comes at the prices of potentially frying the user and more points per infantry squad.

The grenade launcher, whose krak shot is not as strong or low an AP as the plasmagun, is cheaper and allows you the different kinds of shots but will generally never be able to do the damage of the plasmagun. If you want a cheap stronger shot, it doesn't add that much to an infantry squads overall price.


I'm personally a fan of the grenade launcher, though mostly from the fluff point of view that plasma weapons are on the rarer side of things.


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Grenade Launchers are a great weapon for their cost, you become a threat to Transports (important), and also bolster your anti-infantry power, as you can fire a Frag round at 24" even while on the move!


----------



## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Against MEQ's/Termi's/MC's Plasmas are going to do more for you than GL's. Sure they can potentially kill a man but it's only a 1 in 6 chance so the odds are in your favour. I take 3 and a Medic in one of my CCS's, and when they do die it's generally not because of 'gets hot'. 

I wouldn't spam them but taking zero could mean you haven't covered all your potential threats.


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

HOBO said:


> Sure they can potentially kill a man but it's only a 1 in 6 chance so the odds are in your favour.


Remember HOBO, should you decide to double tap with them your odds of overheating double. Still in your favour, at only a 33% chance of happening, but all it takes is one round of bad luck to see one or two of them gone.

Any other special weapon does not have that overheat possibility, which can be what makes them a tad more appealing. The lack of chance can outweigh the risk of it, no matter how minute.


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

darkreever said:


> Remember HOBO, should you decide to double tap with them your odds of overheating double. Still in your favour, at only a 33% chance of happening, but all it takes is one round of bad luck to see one or two of them gone.


You've got the numbers wrong actually.
Shooting one plasma shot with a Guardsmen is a 1/18 chance of death.
Shooting two plasma shots with a Guardsmen is a little more complicated.

2D6 brings 36 possible results, 1 of these is 2 overheats, 10 are 1 overheat.
For 2 overheats, you have a 1/9 chance of survival, for 1 overheat, a 1/3.

10/36 * 2/3 = 6.666
1/36 * 8/9 = 0.888
Adding them together brings 5.925

So, 5.926/36 chance of a Guardsman dying from firing his Plasma Gun rapid fire.
If we round that to the ever-so-near 6/36, we have a 1/6 chance of death.
As opposed to if you fire a single shot, which entails a 4/36 chance of death, which is a 1/9 chance.


----------



## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

I myself bring a lot of plasma to the table with my Traitor Guard as I play against a lot Marines, it usually works for me but it can be costly in more ways than one. I don't really worry about my guys getting cooked, it does happen , but Khorne likes that kinda thing and that's what guardsmen (even traitors) are there for, to die... if gets hot doesn't kill them something else probably will. 

Having said that the grenade launcher not a bad option at all, you really can't go wrong, where things can potentially go really wrong with a plamsa gun.


----------



## officer kerky (Jun 12, 2008)

i would personaly go greande launcher mainly due to:
doesnt harm me
good againt horde/low save armies (guard, eldar,dark eldar,tyranid,orks)
plus has a blast so works great against the horde armies tyranid and ork
along with great for poping weak tanks from afar like grav falcons, buggies, rhinos etc as long as its av12 or less.
plus cheap meaning more of them. 

downsides to plasma:
your opposition will know what to do to that squad straight away so its a fire magnet.
also guard have low save so if it does blow up in their face chances are they will die.

advantages:
kills meqs, good against av13 and lower.
kills marines and necrons yay.
and its at the temperature of a sun which is so cool.


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Winterous, just wondering but why would you subtract the two overheat values rather than add them? (the 10/36 and 1/36)

Also, on 2d6 where overheat is 1's and 2's wouldn't you get double overheats on double 1's and double 2's and another eighteen overheats from results with a 1 or 2 in them? Thats about double the results your post claims isn't it?


----------



## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

darkreever said:


> Remember HOBO, should you decide to double tap with them your odds of overheating double. Still in your favour, at only a 33% chance of happening, but all it takes is one round of bad luck to see one or two of them gone.
> 
> Any other special weapon does not have that overheat possibility, which can be what makes them a tad more appealing. The lack of chance can outweigh the risk of it, no matter how minute.


True that, and I do have my Plasma CCS doing drive-bys in a Chimera so double-tapping is the norm, but the Medic does help out with that...what % the Medic's save equates to I have no clue...I don't do Mathhammer.

I'm not into Spam-anything really and even though Melta is considered king in 5th Ed I'd never go that route, even to my detriment....I understand fully why others hold a different view:good:

My take on Hoard/Infantry/MEQ/MC/IC killers is Ordnance pie-plates, S10 and AP2, so I'm ready for any eventuality....generally speaking.


----------



## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

plasma only overheats on a roll of a 1 now, regardless how many shots you had. if they both roll 1 i suggest you want to get a better plasmagun! gren launchers can be good if you go all out with them - gren spam - but only against some armies. i would have a healthy spattering of both. grens on foot plasma's in chimera's


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

darkreever said:


> Winterous, just wondering but why would you subtract the two overheat values rather than add them? (the 10/36 and 1/36)
> 
> Also, on 2d6 where overheat is 1's and 2's wouldn't you get double overheats on double 1's and double 2's and another eighteen overheats from results with a 1 or 2 in them? Thats about double the results your post claims isn't it?


Don't understand what you mean by the first bit.
But Gets Hot weapons only overheat on 1 in 5th ed, making Kaptin Badrukk a decent option, because he no longer kill himself as a matter of course.


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Winterous said:


> But Gets Hot weapons only overheat on 1 in 5th ed, making Kaptin Badrukk a decent option, because he no longer kill himself as a matter of course.


:shok: What? When did this change back? (When fifth came out of course)

Wow, absolutely did not know it had gone back to only overheat on the 1. Thats much better now; the plasmagun definitely went up in my book since fourth. Learn something new everyday, more or less.


----------



## toffster (Dec 13, 2009)

personally i think plasma gun, in real life it would be better. However there is the risk of frying the user and it does overheat (i think)

So i reckon, maybe instead of a plasma gun, two or three grenade launchers per squad. If that works of course, im a fan of Tau so i don't know that much about guards execpt the stuff i read in their codex, which i have to admit is very little.


----------



## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

plasma gun your guardsmen are likely to get killed anyway might as well die in style


----------



## officer kerky (Jun 12, 2008)

can we get a page ref on the BRB for plasma over heating cant seem to find it.


----------



## dobbins (Sep 19, 2009)

Vet Squad with 3 Grenade Launchers firing frags at any kind of squad and statistically there has to be a fair few failed saves for anything 3+ and you'll be saving 30 points


----------



## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

officer kerky said:


> can we get a page ref on the BRB for plasma over heating cant seem to find it.


I won't give you a page because I'm lazy, but it's amongst the ranged weapon types.
Gets Hot is what you're looking for.


----------



## dobbins (Sep 19, 2009)

Gets Hot! - Page 31 BRB


----------

