# Are Genestealers sapient?



## willoftheswarm93 (Jan 20, 2009)

While paging through the Tyranid Codex and looking at the GW website I discovered a mention that Genestealers are "incredibly intelligent" and that they infiltrate worlds far ahead of the main body of a given swarm fleet. This, combined with their lack of reliance on synapse (it says in their stats that due to an innate telepathic bond they don't follow instinctive behavior rules if out of synapse) and the fact that they are formed from corrupted members of various species (human, tau, ork, etc) suggests that they are more than intelligent than mere beasts. They also establish "genestealer cults" which focus on corrupting various influential families with tyranid genes, which suggests an ability to communicate verbally and to manipulate others. 

Has there been anything discussed in any 40k novel describing the mindset and or intelligence level of a genestealer?

Are they:

Given intelligence by the hive mind that remains irrespective of it's presence nearby?

Does some of the previous creature live on in a Genestealer, with each genestealer's level of cunning determined by the intelligence of it's host?

If the above is true, then are any personality traits from the host used to create a genestealer (such as an ork's love of conflict or a particular human's love of opera) retained? Does the answer to this question change if such a trait is useful to the hivemind? 

It seems that tyranid organisms separated from the swarm can "go native" as evidenced by the catachan devil, which xenobiologists speculate to be an evolved tyranid organism that's been separated from the host fleet. Has this process ever occured with genestealers (say if a tyranid fleet was about to attack a given solar system, and seeded genestealers on several planets in that system, but then was destroyed before an attack could be mounted) and if so what were the results? It seems that catachan devils have reverted to little more than really dangerous animals that are independent of the swarm-would Genestealers go mad away from the presence of the hive fleet, devolve into beasts, or turn into a separate form of organism over a number of generations away from the "mother fleet"? 

Just some questions I had


----------



## Fugital357 (Jan 19, 2009)

No, genestealers are not sapient. They usually arrive on a planet in small numbers, and they gain followers by hypnotizing them with their basic psychic powers. The followers usually worship them as Gods, perhaps as the Emperor returned or something. They bring initiates to their cult and give them to the genestealer to hypnotize as well. 

The genestealers will infect followers with an implant that affects their reproduction. Their children will be born with traits from the Genestealer, and will pass those traits on to their children. The hybrid followers are Sapient, but the Genestealers themselves are not. 

After serveral generation of this hybrid messsyness, some of the children will be full Genestealers, capable of spreading the infection. Only "pure" genestealers are capable of this, thus preventing and "taint" from the followers from spreading into genestealers.


----------



## willoftheswarm93 (Jan 20, 2009)

mmm...I had considered the possibility that genestealers simply mesmerize people into worshipping them, but then what use would their intelligence be?


----------



## Lord Lucius (Sep 18, 2008)

wolfs are inteligent,ravens are inteligent,neanderthal were extreemly inteligent,does that make them seNTIEnt(not sAPIEnt)


----------



## Grik (Jul 28, 2008)

Lord Lucius said:


> wolfs are inteligent,ravens are inteligent,neanderthal were extreemly inteligent,does that make them seNTIEnt(not sAPIEnt)


I was hoping he meant sentient, as for the life of me I couldn't figure out what saoient meant. :laugh: As for what a sentient being is, it is defined as being aware of ones self in the world, aware of your existence and mortality. So by that definition I would say wolves and ravens aren't whereas neanderthal man and genestealers are.


----------



## Lord Lucius (Sep 18, 2008)

what makes you say the last bit,Grik,have you seen neanderthal tools?You see one , youv seen the lot,sounds like instinkt there.mind,there is slight proof of neanderthals having religion.But what evidence have you got to say geensteelers are sentient(& yes ,I know they'r fictional:laugh


----------



## Grik (Jul 28, 2008)

I don't really. but it just seems to me that something that is able to build up a cult of genestealers and keep it hidden from prying eyes while it builds up, is a sentient being. The magus is aware the at if found action will be taken against him and his coven, and he certainly doesn't want that.


----------



## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Sentience can be defined as being aware of one's self and it's mortality as Grik said.
A common test is showing the creature a reflection of itself, if it understands that the reflection is just that, rather than another creature, it's 'passed' this very basic sentience test. Under those restrictions humans couldn't be classed as sentient till they've passed the age of 18 months...

I would say that Genestealers are sentient, but not intelligent (or at least not very intelligent). I'm guessing you're joking about Neaderthal's lack of sentience Lord Lucius, otherwise you sound like an idiot if that's what you really believe.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Sentience, Intelligence, Instinct, Knowledge... Way too much grey area to define those.

Sentience - capacity for sensation or feeling

Yes. They are sentient. Simple answer. Still, the other points that were raised do need claryifying.

Intelligence - capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.

Learning = adaption with the current tools, so yes, Genestealers have that. Reasoning? I'd say very little, unless you count on the ability to make a choice over how to act. Similar forms of mental activity. Well, Reasoning and unbiased arguments come hand in hand. No, they don't have that - the aptitudes, all those are worthless. So no. They're not intelligent. However, they are able to assess situations. So I'd say semi-intelligent.

Instinct - an inborn pattern of activity or tendency to action common to a given biological species.

Well, naturally, they have that. They have a singular task, and use the animalistic cunning to complete it when an unknown block is placed.

Knowledge - familiarity or conversance, as with a particular subject or branch of learning

Yes. They have that. Strangely, they're knowledgeable, but not intelligent, which is the exact opposite of Humans. I guess that could be why they are so successful.


----------



## willoftheswarm93 (Jan 20, 2009)

Alright..so they have the ability to make decisions based on rational assessment of costs and rewards, And they have have an instinctive knowledge of what will motivate people to join a cult, but outside of those distinct parameters they have roughly the intelligence of a chimp.

Seems appropriately alien-I like the point that Vaz made, regarding how they seem to be the exact opposite of races like the Tau or Humans-they have instinctive knowledge, but very little intelligence that they can use when that knowledge fails them-they know how to scout, how to hide, how to recruit, and how to fight, but very little else. So essentially their intelligence is analogous to a primitive AI-they're "programmed" for a few tasks, and can improvise to complete those tasks, but outside of those programmed tasks their programming needs to create new procedures for itself to follow, and as such is drastically reduced in effectiveness.


----------

