# Grey Knights gene-seed came from the Emperor?



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

First time reading through the daemonhunters codex, and it says inside that 

"where other Space Marine chapters were created from the gene-seed existing chapters [primarch gene-seed], the Grey Knights were unique in that their gene-seed was said by some to have come from the Emperor's own flesh"

so the Grey Knights aren't just a chapter of librarian equivalents, their gene-seed also came from the Emperor himself. 

I guess I'm saying I didn't know they were _that_ good in the fluff. 

I'm not too sure how the custodes were created (perhaps cloned from the Emperor's genetic material, this doesn't mean each custodes as powerful as the Emperor because the main source of the Emperor's power is his soul rather than his genes)

but anyway after reading that I'd say Grey Knights are at least equal to custodes (though GK weren't painstakingly engineered from scratch like the custodes, GK are powerful psykers)


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## VanitusMalus (Jun 27, 2009)

yeah Grey Knights are very powerful psykers. You should have seen them in earlier editions. Anyway each is a very gifted psyker who has overcome the taint of Chaos. It's said they can't be corrupted or fall under the influence of Chaos as other psykers are prone to do. The Custodes I never really got the story behind them, but supposedly they are very dangerous to intruders. It's funny because in game terms these powerful troops always have to be dumbed down. Otherwise say with Grey Knights you could possible take one against a 2,000 pt Daemon army and he'd probably win, lol.


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## Ork_boss (Sep 30, 2009)

No That is just mean to Daemons BILLIONS OF THEM!!!!
And why would a GK be on his OWN!!


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Grey knights are the emperors elite, designed to combat the threat of chaos. I guess as the primarchs had proven themselves to be able to fall under the sway of chaos the emperor created the grey knights to be as resistant as a he was.

Basically grey knights are truly awesome


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## Prince Endymion (Sep 19, 2009)

As a Deamonhunters player myself, I have a strong affinity for their lore, and their place in the hierarchy of 40k. 

Fluff-wise, I would say that a typical Grey Knight is the equal in psychic power to a librarian, or powerful sanctioned psyker in the IG. Justicars, of various skill are compared (in their own codex) as the equal of even the mightiest librarians in the Adeptus Astartes. 

That same codex goes on to explain that the hierarchy doesn't end there; that even among the Justicars there are those who excel and are chosen to be placed in Terminator Armor, and their Psychic might is greater tham any known. And even that is not the end. Brother Captains are distinguished among the Terminators and Gand Masters are distinuished among them... a Grey Knight Grand Master is likely the equal in fluff terms to Magnus, or Malcador, as I have been informed that there is, at any given time only 1 grand master, whose name is never known, and shrouded in such secrecy that almost no-one in the Imperium is aware (even senior members of the Inquisition).


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

I largely agree with you Prince - Apart from you comparing a Grand Master to Magnus the Red but that is not for this thread 

Also i'll also mention that it doesn't actually explicity state that the Grey Knights Geneseed comes from the Emperor - Its only a rumour.

And yes the Grey Knights are an extremley powerful tool of the Imperium - The major problem is that they simply can't be everywhere at once. The Galaxy is inconcievably Massive, the Grey Knights are a Chapter of Marines, they cannot combat every Daemonic Incursion, a Shame for the Imperium! 99.999% of the Imperium will probably never know the Grey Knights actually exist let alone be graced by their presence!


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## Prince Endymion (Sep 19, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I largely agree with you Prince - Apart from you comparing a Grand Master to Magnus the Red but that is not for this thread
> 
> Also i'll also mention that it doesn't actually explicity state that the Grey Knights Geneseed comes from the Emperor - Its only a rumour.
> 
> And yes the Grey Knights are an extremley powerful tool of the Imperium - The major problem is that they simply can't be everywhere at once. The Galaxy is inconcievably Massive, the Grey Knights are a Chapter of Marines, they cannot combat every Daemonic Incursion, a Shame for the Imperium! 99.999% of the Imperium will probably never know the Grey Knights actually exist let alone be graced by their presence!


Exactly. The Grey Knights are soo few in number that they alone, despite their immense power, cannot save humanity by themselves. 

Another note about the GK Geneseed comming from the Emperor: It is a rumor, yes, but its the ONLY rule stated in any codex. All other rumors are just fan-fare. I also highly doubt we'll ever know for certain if its true or not, but we're most assuredly meant to assume it is. 

Also, just finished reading Ben Counter's novel - Hammer of Deamons...

I reccomend anyone with any interest in the fluff stay away from it. It is definately the worst of any 40k novel I have ever read, and possibly one of the worst novels I've ever read of any genre. 

It has however, inspired my to write a novel myself, which I began late last night. I know it sounds pretentious to say that I think I could do better... but that book was bad... really bad.


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

Prince Endymion said:


> Also, just finished reading Ben Counter's novel - Hammer of Deamons...
> 
> I reccomend anyone with any interest in the fluff stay away from it. It is definately the worst of any 40k novel I have ever read, and possibly one of the worst novels I've ever read of any genre.
> 
> ...


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## Prince Endymion (Sep 19, 2009)

revenant13 said:


> Prince Endymion said:
> 
> 
> > Also, just finished reading Ben Counter's novel - Hammer of Deamons...
> ...


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I guess you could say the Grey Knights are man for man the most powerful chapter of astartes?


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## Prince Endymion (Sep 19, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> I guess you could say the Grey Knights are man for man the most powerful chapter of astartes?


Not at all. Grey Knights are not part of the Adeptus Astartes. They are an order of the Inquisition. 

The Inquisition is its own body, seperate from the Echlesiarchy, and from the Imperial Armed forces, and from the Adeptus Astartes. Its officials out-rank, if that term applies, every citizen on every world who is not the Emperor or a member of the Council of Terra. 

The only exceptions are the Ordo Malleus, and the Ordo Hereticus. Both Orders are military bodies who have (not litterally) sign contracts with the Inquisition to fight for them when the Inquisition truly needs them.


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## VanitusMalus (Jun 27, 2009)

Actually it even states in the Codex the Grey Knights have the best navigators in the galaxy and it says they are often the first to take on a Daemon incursion. Now here's the funny thing about, eventhough Space Marine Chapters number oly a 1,000 even their respective codexes have stated how they can't be everywhere, all the time, not even the Black Templars who stay constantly on the move. So um if the Grey Knights are in such limited numbers how can they be taken so many daemonic incursions. To take this argument even further, most daemonic incursions happen near the Eye of Terror, YET the Grey Knight are stationed on the moon of Titan near Holy Terra. Which from what I've seen of the maps are pretty dang far from each other. Anyway my observation.


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## VanitusMalus (Jun 27, 2009)

Oh also a Grey Knight wouldn't fight alone, but in game terms versus fluff I highly doubt it would take 30 of them to kill off 100 daemons. Fluff wise they strike me as a small band of them could take down a planetary wide incursion.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Prince Endymion said:


> Not at all. Grey Knights are not part of the Adeptus Astartes. They are an order of the Inquisition.


quit dodging the question, you know what I meant 

The Grey Knights are a chapter and its members are astartes in the sense that they've been implanted with gene-seed (be it the emperor's or a primarch's), I don't know whether they're part of the formal adeptus astartes organisation but that wasn't what I was referring to anyway

it seems man for man their superior to ultramarines, dark angels, space wolves etc.


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## Prince Endymion (Sep 19, 2009)

VanitusMalus said:


> Oh also a Grey Knight wouldn't fight alone, but in game terms versus fluff I highly doubt it would take 30 of them to kill off 100 daemons.


Well, that depends on the incursion I should think.

Grey Knights do travel in small groups. The Deamonhunters Codex states that they opperate in groups similar to cell, with a Justicar in command of a small squad, often with no further support from the chapter. 

These single squads often form the last line of defense for many planets, and if the threat is deamonic in nature, they often succeed. 



VanitusMalus said:


> Fluff wise they strike me as a small band of them could take down a planetary wide incursion.


Absolutely. One of the reasons that GK are so potent a weapon against chaos and the deamons is that their very presense physically harms deamons. 

Look at the rules for the Shrouding - fluff wise that equates to each and every GK burning with the light of the Emperor so brightly that it not only conceals them at a distance, but literally sears the flesh from the deamon itself, making it difficult from the deamon to exist near them, (sometimes deamons can't approach them at all - sanctuary). and if the Deamon manages to attack, it has to fight back its own urge to just return to the warp where it is safe. I imagine that only the strongest deamons could even lay hands on a GK without being litterally immolated in holy fire. 

Couple that with the psycannon rounds and the holy promethium of the flames and you can see why even a small force of GK could lay waste to entire armies of deamons.

This isn't even taking into consideration the psychic poweres that every GK are imbued with. 

Brother Captain Stern has banished named Greater deamons of chaos multiple times, and has bested a prized champion champion Changer of Ways on more than one occasion. Granted Stern is badass, even by GK standards.


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## kaled (Jun 24, 2008)

Prince Endymion said:


> Not at all. Grey Knights are not part of the Adeptus Astartes. They are an order of the Inquisition.


If we're being specific, I'd say it's more correct to say that the Grey Knights are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Malleus - they're the military arm of that Ordo rather than being part of the Inquisition as a whole.



> The only exceptions are the Ordo Malleus, and the Ordo Hereticus. Both Orders are military bodies who have (not litterally) sign contracts with the Inquisition to fight for them when the Inquisition truly needs them.


The Inquisition itself is not a military force, but it can call up military forces if an Inquisitor deems it necessary. Neither are the Ordos military bodies - however the three Ordos Majoris do have Chambers Militant (the Grey Knights, Deathwatch and Sororitas) who stand ready to fight on behalf of the Ordo in accordance with their respective pacts and agreements. As far as we know, the Ordos Minoris do not have Chambers Militant, although they may have Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (and other less well known forces) at their disposal. Other Inquisitorial groups such as regional Conclaves, cells, cabals, factional groups etc, can also have temporary or permamently attached military forces.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Just Edit your post VanitusMalus - it saves double posting! 



VanitusMalus said:


> Actually it even states in the Codex the Grey Knights have the best navigators in the galaxy and it says they are often the first to take on a Daemon incursion. Now here's the funny thing about, eventhough Space Marine Chapters number oly a 1,000 even their respective codexes have stated how they can't be everywhere, all the time, not even the Black Templars who stay constantly on the move. So um if the Grey Knights are in such limited numbers how can they be taken so many daemonic incursions.


Not really sure what your trying to say. But the Grey Knights simply cannot be present during all Daemonic Incursions. Its simply not possible. But as Prince said they often travel in small groups which allows them to better combat the numerous and seemingly constant Daemonic Incursions occuring around the galaxy all the time. Very rarely if at all have they ever gathered in mass numbers, even during the First War for Armageddon I believe there was only 100 Grey Knight Terminators present (Could be wrong on that number though!).



VanitusMalus said:


> To take this argument even further, most daemonic incursions happen near the Eye of Terror, YET the Grey Knight are stationed on the moon of Titan near Holy Terra. Which from what I've seen of the maps are pretty dang far from each other. Anyway my observation.


Where does it state that Daemonic Incursions mostly occur around the Eye of Terror? Warp Rifts can and have been generated almost anywhere in the galaxy.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

> at any given time only 1 grand master, whose name is never known


Wrong.

It even states in the codex that unlike other chapters there can be many grand masters.
One of which is part of the inner conclave of the inquisition.

Although i've never seen any good impersonations in books of grand masters.

But i reckon it would be hard. After all few things in 40k has the same power level.

And when things have to high power level, it can stop beeing interesting.

"And the grand master finally found the right hand of khorne, the second greatest warrior in the deamon realm, only khorne himself is more dangerous.....

-Puny human, how can you begin to comprehend my power, my master khorne himself.....

-Madness? This isn't madness.

-What? Hey you're not even listening!

-THIS IS THE IMPERIUM!!!!!! *WHOPASS!!!!!*"

And grand master kicks deamons ass, perhaps not like that but you get my point, when characters have too high power level it can stop beeing interesting.


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