# 6th ed shenanigans



## shaggy (Jul 9, 2009)

People have had some time to stumble onto unusual scenarios and funny rule abusings. I figure the best way to not get caught off guard is to compile a list and compare notes. The idea here is to see the cheese coming and not get caught in a bad situation, not help players be cheesier. For example...

1) if you're going to be shooting at bs1 with snap fire, might as well use it on something like flys that are only hit on a 6 anyway. Guard heavy weapons teams fire at flyers with the same effectiveness whether on the move or stationary. Take that opportunity to reposition for later turns

2) since moving flat out is in the shooting phase, you can play lots of games with LOS. Want to be truly annoying? Fire your long fangs and move a land raider in front of them sideways. Next turn, move the land raider and fire again without loosing a single model!

What examples have you found?


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## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

Monoliths can now scatter onto enemy/friendly models when deep striking with no Mishap. Due to skimmer rules, since they are forced to move there thanks to scatter, they move the minimum distance away.


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## Obinhi (Dec 30, 2008)

I want to bring up the KFF. The FAQ says that 'Units with in 6in get a 5+ cover save'. And with units defined as a collection of models this seems to allow the silly assed long distance KFF which in a 30 boys squad could cover nearly 2 feet of table and still get the cover, and this will apply to overwatch and all kinds of other crap like that, because overwatch takes place prior to movement. Not sure that this is rules as intended.


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## KAPcom (Jul 17, 2012)

If I read the rule correctly, you can give entire scout squads stealth with one camo cloak or telion. One unit with the rule gives the entire squad the rule. A way to save a couple points, which is nice.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Camo Cloaks do not provide stealth anymore. They are a flat +1 to cover per model. The Stealth USR does provide unit wide +1 though. So if you equip the squad with Camo Cloaks and have Telion in the group they will have a +2 cover save, which means in ruins they would have a 'terminator' cover save.


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## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

For Space Wolf Ally abuse you can take Canis Wolfborn and only have to take 40 points worth of Fenrisian Wolves to fill the compulsory Troop choice (he makes Wolves Troops). Fill out a TWC unit with the Fast Attack slot. Use the Wolves to bleed off Overwatch on a unit you want to charge.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Regarding your example Land Raiders as Heavy Vehicles can't go Flat Out. They also can't go faster than combat speed.


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## capnmoe (Mar 11, 2011)

Rems said:


> Regarding your example Land Raiders as Heavy Vehicles can't go Flat Out. They also can't go faster than combat speed.


Pretty sure Necron monoliths are the only heavy vehicle out there currently.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

ohiocat110 said:


> For Space Wolf Ally abuse you can take Canis Wolfborn and only have to take 40 points worth of Fenrisian Wolves to fill the compulsory Troop choice (he makes Wolves Troops). Fill out a TWC unit with the Fast Attack slot. Use the Wolves to bleed off Overwatch on a unit you want to charge.


You can do the same with Chaos Daemons by taking a 3 model squad of Nurglings as your Troop choice. Only 39 points.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

capnmoe said:


> Pretty sure Necron monoliths are the only heavy vehicle out there currently.



You're absolutely right. I've just checked and LR's are not Heavy Vehicles. my mistake, i thought there were, perhaps the 4 hull points confused me.


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## sgjohnson (Jan 20, 2012)

Now that weapons are blown off randomly, time to buy upgrades! Ex: A leman russ has a machinegun and a valuable Battle Cannon. If you get weapon destroyed, it's a 1/2 chance of losing the big guy. However, if you buy 2 machinegun sponsons, a heavy stubber, and a krak missile, its a 1/6 chance of the battle cannon being blown off!


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## shaggy (Jul 9, 2009)

Has anyone tried using a flyer's full movement of 36" and then go flat out in the shooting phase?! Played a game last night using the long board deployment. One turn my storm raven crossed the whole damn board with a scoring unit embarked inside for a surprise win.


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## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

Constantly outflanking a vendetta: zoom it min distance, and take a turn of shooting, and evade and go off the board if shot at, returning the next turn (as by T4 its automatic), and drop off troops Turn 5 (the weedier the better - just to piss your opponent off by capping another objective).

@Sgjohnson - do that on weaker one gun tanks, like the IG artillery pieces, as they're most vulnerable. Great for vindicators as it reduces the chances of the demo cannon being removed to 50% because of the oft forgotten FREE storm bolter - same applies for all chimera chassis artillery).


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## sverigesson (Sep 21, 2011)

shaggy said:


> Has anyone tried using a flyer's full movement of 36" and then go flat out in the shooting phase?! Played a game last night using the long board deployment. One turn my storm raven crossed the whole damn board with a scoring unit embarked inside for a surprise win.


Remember, vehicles cannot hold objectives at all anymore (unless this was in the mission where it could have, then never mind), and if you went flat out to get to the objective, you would not have been able to drop off your troops on it (you can only disembark in the movement phase, except for the Valk/Vend Grav Chute Insertion, which I believe was meant to be FAQed to be just like Skies of Blood).


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## thisisaguard111 (Oct 20, 2010)

sverigesson said:


> Remember, vehicles cannot hold objectives at all anymore (unless this was in the mission where it could have, then never mind), and if you went flat out to get to the objective, you would not have been able to drop off your troops on it (you can only disembark in the movement phase, except for the Valk/Vend Grav Chute Insertion, which I believe was meant to be FAQed to be just like Skies of Blood).


Hover mode works too


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## sverigesson (Sep 21, 2011)

thisisaguard111 said:


> Hover mode works too


Yes, but irrelevant to my point.


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## b.anthracis (Nov 18, 2008)

Can you interlock two units in order to deny a charging unit the +1A (disorder charge)?


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

b.anthracis said:


> Can you interlock two units in order to deny a charging unit the +1A (disorder charge)?


Do you mean force them to multi-charge? 

I'd say no as you aren't compelled to multi-charge. It could get messy once the assault phase is over tho' if you are within 1" of units you are actually locked in combat with.


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## Ellevild (Jun 30, 2011)

@sverigesson

The stormraven are able to drop off troops when going flat out. Skies of blood...but maybe it has to be in hover mode?


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Definitely planning to buy a cheap Rhino for my heavy weapon squads, move it out of the way then after they shoot, flat out move it back to cover them from LoS.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

Arcane said:


> Definitely planning to buy a cheap Rhino for my heavy weapon squads, move it out of the way then after they shoot, flat out move it back to cover them from LoS.


You're sure to make friends that way


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

Arcane said:


> Definitely planning to buy a cheap Rhino for my heavy weapon squads, move it out of the way then after they shoot, flat out move it back to cover them from LoS.


If only rhinos had staying power. What would initially give you cover may end up exploding or becoming a smoking wreck that you then have to move out from behind, losing a turn of BS3 shooting.

Questionable.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Antonius said:


> Constantly outflanking a vendetta: zoom it min distance, and take a turn of shooting, and evade and go off the board if shot at, returning the next turn (as by T4 its automatic), and drop off troops Turn 5 (the weedier the better - just to piss your opponent off by capping another objective).


I think this is a great idea, but it's even better than that - it's not by turn 4 it's automatic, it's simply the next turn. It's under 'Ongoing Reserves'.

Midnight


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## LegionThree (May 1, 2012)

Only way i think the rhino screen would have a chance would be if you could at least get some hull down saves for it. As Zaden said they are super fragile and you dont want to block your LoS. A landraider would work but cost a lot and would have to give up its own guns, not worth it.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Zaden said:


> If only rhinos had staying power. What would initially give you cover may end up exploding or becoming a smoking wreck that you then have to move out from behind, losing a turn of BS3 shooting.
> 
> Questionable.


If it explodes, no big deal, since it's only a low strength hit, which will most likely do nothing. Any unit I would put behind it would be BS4, so not sure what you mean there. Of course it's only going to protect you for a couple turns, but it makes up for it's points with the models it would save from death. And of course, as mentioned you should be able to get hull down for it and smoke launchers.

Also, if your opponent is shooting at a rhino in the back of your field he is ignoring whatever real threat you are sending at him.


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

Arcane said:


> Any unit I would put behind it would be BS4, so not sure what you mean there.


Mispoke with the BS3...too many years of playing Tau I guess. I was eluding to potentially having to move your heavy weapons squad out from behind the new piece of LoS blocking terrain, aka the smoking wreck of a rhino. So at best you will be taking snap shots at BS1 for that turn. 



Arcane said:


> Also, if your opponent is shooting at a rhino in the back of your field he is ignoring whatever real threat you are sending at him.


Good point indeed.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Well I agree that it could be a bad tactic in some settings, for example, a low point game where you would be better served spending points elseware, or against an assault army who won't be shooting at you anyways. Against the assault army though it could be used to gtfo when they get close. 

Another 6th ed shenanigan which I -won't- be using is bringing multiple models with different power weapons for the same list. For example, you see your opponent is playing Orcs, you pull out the models with power mauls. You see your opponent is using lots of Terminators, you pull out the same models for your list, but the ones with axes instead. Rather dastardly tactic indeed. :scare:


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

Arcane said:


> Another 6th ed shenanigan which I -won't- be using is bringing multiple models with different power weapons for the same list. For example, you see your opponent is playing Orcs, you pull out the models with power mauls. You see your opponent is using lots of Terminators, you pull out the same models for your list, but the ones with axes instead. Rather dastardly tactic indeed. :scare:



I feel like a tournament would make you specify which type of power weapon you are using in the list.


I pulled off a rather ridiculous move the other day using Lash (surprise) and the new rules. 

My opponent had a unit of Sternguard deployed over the top 3 stories of a 4 story ruin (counting the ground floor). I successfully cast Lash of Submission and forced his Sternguard to jump off the top of the building, forcing the new Impact Tests. I ended up killing 4 models. That's 100 points gone just from falling.

We weren't actually sure if it was legal or not, but since we were practicing for a Tourney, we had the TO confirm that it was possible. I'm gonna post the situation in the Rules section to see what people have to say.


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

Arcane said:


> ....And of course, as mentioned you should be able to get hull down for it and smoke launchers.


can't use smoke if moving flat out which will prevent you from moving back into place...



Iron_Freak220 said:


> I feel like a tournament would make you specify which type of power weapon you are using in the list.


there has been one 6th ed tournament in my area so far & they did not require this, of course if I saw you playing two games at a tournament with different types of power weapons I would be reporting your ass as a cheater to the TO...



Iron_Freak220 said:


> My opponent had a unit of Sternguard deployed over the top 3 stories of a 4 story ruin (counting the ground floor). I successfully cast Lash of Submission and forced his Sternguard to jump off the top of the building, forcing the new Impact Tests. I ended up killing 4 models. That's 100 points gone just from falling.


as far as I can tell, as long as the models didn't move farther than your roll of 2D6 this should be perfectly legal (i.e. roll a 6 & make them jump two levels)... didn't even think of this! for the next couple of weeks lash is even better - back to the good ol' days of the first weeks of 5th when lash was the most OP thing ever! My pink marines are in heaven!


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

I've got two more shenanigans, both involving Independent Characters.

In 6th ICs can join other ICs. So Chaos Daemon Heralds can all join up to form a super squad. It may not be very points efficient but it would be cool. And 4 Heralds of Tzeentch joined together with Bolt on a Disk would make a pretty nasty anti-tank unit. Or you could keep them cheap and just use Gaze to go MEQ hunting.

Chaos Space Marines also have an IC trick up their sleeve. You can join two Biker Lords together to make a decent power squad. If you give one Bike the Mark of Nurgle then T6 becomes the majority toughness to protect them from small arms fire. If you give the other Lord the Mark of Tzeentch then you can Look Out Sir the low AP attacks to him with his improved Invul save.

Again, not very points efficient, but neat.


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## Suijin (Aug 11, 2011)

Iron_Freak220 said:


> I've got two more shenanigans, both involving Independent Characters.
> 
> In 6th ICs can join other ICs. So Chaos Daemon Heralds can all join up to form a super squad. It may not be very points efficient but it would be cool. And 4 Heralds of Tzeentch joined together with Bolt on a Disk would make a pretty nasty anti-tank unit. Or you could keep them cheap and just use Gaze to go MEQ hunting.
> 
> ...


In 5th ICs could join other ICs also, only difference now is Look Out Sir.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

Suijin said:


> In 5th ICs could join other ICs also, only difference now is Look Out Sir.


Party pooper


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## Suijin (Aug 11, 2011)

Iron_Freak220 said:


> Party pooper


Well you can setup the ICs to tank a lot more shit with Look Out Sir than you could with the old wound allocation from 5th, so it is still a valid point I was just elaborating on why it might be better in 6th.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Today I used Terrify to make two Thousand Sons and an Aspiring Sorceror run down the Avatar of Khaine. I lol'd. It also made 8 Wraithguard run away.

Midnight


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## Karnax (Sep 23, 2010)

Arcane said:


> Another 6th ed shenanigan which I -won't- be using is bringing multiple models with different power weapons for the same list. For example, you see your opponent is playing Orcs, you pull out the models with power mauls. You see your opponent is using lots of Terminators, you pull out the same models for your list, but the ones with axes instead. Rather dastardly tactic indeed. :scare:


A worse tactic is to arm them with an axe _and _a maul. You get to choose which one to use, and, as neither type has the specialist weapon rule, you still get +1 attack. May not look very good though (model wise, I mean).


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

Chaos terminators don't get two power weapons, ergo you can only have one power weapon at a time and can't, as far as the actual rules are concerned, be armed with both simultaneously (lightning claws only). If simply modeling this way for advantage... well that's cheating sir. Of course, pick-up type gaming - have fun! explore, try out different weapons combinations. In a tournament schenario I can almost guarantee swaping power weapon types between games would be frowned upo.


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## Suijin (Aug 11, 2011)

Most people refer to DCA when talking about this as they get power weapons (at least the SoB version, haven't personally checked the GK book to see if they get power swords or power weapons), so whatever they are modeled as is what they are.

I'm personally kind of down on that type of thing. The SoB rules had the power sword references changed to power weapon due to some models having a power maul.


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## Ellevild (Jun 30, 2011)

Corbulo is fun in 6th edition. He practicly give the whole unit a 2+ feel no pain. As long as he is the closest model to the enemy shooter or in base contact during CC.


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## Salahaldin (Aug 15, 2009)

When Dire Avengers use Bladestorm, they can still fire overwatch. Bladestorm says you can't shoot in your next shooting phase, overwatch is in enemy's assault phase. Combine with a psyker using Forboding, and that's one unit you do not want to charge.


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

Salahaldin said:


> When Dire Avengers use Bladestorm, they can still fire overwatch. Bladestorm says you can't shoot in your next shooting phase, overwatch is in enemy's assault phase. Combine with a psyker using Forboding, and that's one unit you do not want to charge.


this is one of those "technically, by the grace of gods (or bad FAQing...)" rules which totally goes against the intention of the rule. You may find an opponent who is willing to let it go once - but that opponent will probably take a long time & a bit of convincing to play you again with your Eldar.

... Sometimes playing RAW isn't the correct thing to do when it is OBVIOUS that what you're doing is against the spirit of the game.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

:goodpost:

What he said.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Been away for a long time the best that I have seen.

all barrage weapons can fire at a target within minimum range as long as they fire indirectly (pg 34)

Battlements are the most evil thing to date.

an Imperial Bastion does not cost that many points, gives you a 3+ cover save and you get to allocate the wounds instead. But the best part is you can't be assaulted, the unit can either hit the building (with AV 14 base) or each of them can throw their grenades if they have any.

in other words I can have my unit vs 100 tyranid hormagaunts and they can't do anything to me :biggrin: (pg 96)


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## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

@Sybarite - i think the indirect fire rule is very very poorly worded. My FLGS said that "within minimum range" means between the min and max range (which makes plausible sense). They don't have a clear Direct Fire thing like 5th did.

Also, the bastion is OK, not OMGCHEEZ. Replace the aforementioned hormagaunts with imperial guardsmen and i can imagine you will be crying - D3 HITS FROM LASGUNS - OMFG (and remember EVERYONE can throw Grenades into the bastion). Almost better to stand outside and take laser pointer fire (less will hit). 

Tbh the Bastion is ok, but its not OP. 

Barrages are EXCELLENT, because you remove models with respect to the template centre, rather than the front - excellent for sniping out those heavy weapons or specials (and perhaps even a non-IC Character). Manticores in this scenario are horrible and ripe for abuse (i one shotted a squad of Dire Avengers, Swooping Hawks and a loaded serpent with a salvo, pinning most of the remnants).

My 2p worth 
Antonius


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

@Antonius on indirect fire it said's "this means they can fire at a target that they do not have line of sight to and/or a target that is within the weapons minimum range (if it has one).

to me that is clear cut, note you can't fire directly at a target who is within the weapons minimum range.

with Bastion if you place it in an area that is not near cover and you put anyone with T5 or higher like plague marines or Tau broadsides and you can throw as many D3 sth 3 shots as you want at them they won't get remove. on top of that you are in no mans land with no cover.

Also what happens if your not imperial? like what can Orks do really? they can't use power clwazs because it's Armour 14 (unless its a warboss) and they have no grenades as well. they have to get one of there walkers to take it out if they have any.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Flamers and then some more flamers.


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## drice (Aug 14, 2012)

With the new wording to the Nid FAQ only the heavy venom cannon causes -1 to damage rolls. The wording for the regular venom cannon states that the heavy venom cannon causes -1 to damage rolls, not the venom cannon.


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## Salahaldin (Aug 15, 2009)

clever handle said:


> this is one of those "technically, by the grace of gods (or bad FAQing...)" rules which totally goes against the intention of the rule. You may find an opponent who is willing to let it go once - but that opponent will probably take a long time & a bit of convincing to play you again with your Eldar.
> 
> ... Sometimes playing RAW isn't the correct thing to do when it is OBVIOUS that what you're doing is against the spirit of the game.


I realize this is a poor sportsman type thing to do. I don't even own Eldar, this is just something I thought of. This discussion is about "6th Edition Shenanigans". The Bladestorm shenanigans I submitted is only possible under 6th edition, and is thus a prime example. I am not encouraging this sort of abuse, simply making people aware of what to expect at a tournament, which is what the purpose of this thread is for.

Opening post:


shaggy said:


> The idea here is to see the cheese coming and not get caught in a bad situation, not help players be cheesier.


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