# Paper Waagh!



## Itybih2ku

Being cheap like I am. I decided that the money needed for a proper waagh was way too much for me. 

To that end, I decided that I had more time than money and decided to make myself a paper waagh. Whyle my fellow players initially scoffed at my "Tube" army. They have since come to realize that because of it, I have practically everything in the Ork Codex, then some.

I decided I would share the files with you guys here. Enjoy!
File Folder:  http://www.mediafire.com/?2iz1ibjbghluh

All files are in .pptx format. (Microsoft PowerPoint 2007+) You can download the entire zip file, or merely the individual files you want.

Please keep in mind that all figures and models are designed to be simply Print>Cut>Glue>Play. The vehicles ARE NOT designed to mimic the look of a WWG style ork model. They will be recognizable for what they are, but they will not win any beauty contests. This also means that the models are "smooth." The models have textures printed on the pattern. Unfortunately this means unless you have photoshop/ppt skills, you will not be able to add in alot of customization unless you glue on spare parts. However, if you are on the cheap like I am, it works and works well.

Included: 

*Ork Paper Army: * Includes tube proxies of every ork figurine in the codex. Base size when rolled and glued should approximate the standard base size. I use tubes instead of paper cutouts because tubes allow for better LOS (I.E. 3d tube vs 2d cutout.) Heights may not be perfect, but the tubes are perfectly usable, just remember if you can see the tube, you can see the model. 

*Big Gunz:* This file contains what amounts to a big metal looking cannon. The original shape WAS an enlarged cannon from a paper galleon. This shape has been re-skinned to give it a metallic look. Its not the prettiest figure on the table, but it will get the job done.

*Truck:* Yes, its the Ork Trukk! This figure will resemble a flat-bed truck when complete. It actually has enough room to hold 10 25mm tube figures. Not quite the 12 That its supposed to.

*Battlewagon:* This is probably the most complex of the paper models. Its body comes in 3 sections. And has parts for 3 variations of deffrolla. There is a simple steam-rolla, a 3-rotary saw blade -rolla, and a combine thresher style rolla.

*Tank:* This model is a fairly simple looking tank. Its mildly comical looking with a gun a bit too big for it, but works well as a Looted Wagon, or as grot tanks.

[/b]Pulsa Rokkit* This monstrosity stands over a foot high when complete. Its designed to be free standing, as such, it does not have the launcher as seen in the book. Oddly enough (pure coincidence) it seems to fit pretty well if layed into a Trukk.

While not in this set of downloads, I am also working on an Ork Stompa.  

I'm redesigning my Deff Dread and my Killa Kans as they just weren't working. I have yet to figure out a decent way to do Bikes, Buggies, or Trakks. 

----
Here are Pics for my Paper Waagh!
Unfortunately some of the pics are out of focus, but here goes!

Vehicle Samples:

All at Once:









My Looted Wagon/Grot Tank

















Big Gunzz (i'm Currently sitting at 9 of these things)









Trukk









The BattleWagonz

























Pulsa Rokkit









Tube Boyz

















What do you guys think?

PS the Tubes are now in color. But the original print offs were in BW for ink purposes.*


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## SGMAlice

That is pretty fricking cool.

Not something most people would allow on a table, but to be honest i wouldn't have a problem with it. The amount effort that has gone into this must be huge and the overall effect is quite impressive.

+1 Rep My friend

SGMAlice


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## Itybih2ku

SGMAlice said:


> That is pretty fricking cool.
> 
> Not something most people would allow on a table, but to be honest i wouldn't have a problem with it. The amount effort that has gone into this must be huge and the overall effect is quite impressive.
> 
> +1 Rep My friend
> 
> SGMAlice


Thanks!

I see no problem with it except for people who believe in WYSIWYG rules. My gaming group doesn't care, since everything is easily identifiable for what it is, the proxies are appropriate in scale, and LOS works great. 

The only things that are potential problems are secondary weapons on the Battle Wagons.

Though I don't think I'd bring it out to a tourny...


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## Lord Rahl

very urmmmm whats the word, ah yes that its, well used inititive. I like your idea but it seems like a lot of work was put into them and i personally would prefere the real thing, but it is a good idea and like the way you think.


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## bitsandkits

They look like shit and i wouldnt allow them to be used, even for paper templates they are poor models, save paper and printer ink and just use a tin of beans


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## MidnightSun

Sorry, kinda gotta agree with B&K here. Don't stand up to the real models by a long shot. Want cheap wargaming? Why are you with GW?

Midnight


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## Katie Drake

I'd happily play against this kind of army. I mean, granted it doesn't look as good as the real models but mechanically speaking there's very little cause for worry once playing the game itself. Everything is pretty much the right size and as long as you're consistent about who has what (no changing one's mind halfway through the game about a unit of Boyz having shootas or sluggas) then I don't see a problem. Don't worry about people who disapprove of what you're doing. You decide what to do with your time and money so screw anyone who tries to tell you otherwise.


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## Ultra111

I wouldn't have a problem playing against someone like this though I could see it getting visually boring after a while...

I think this is better used to screen-test a unit before buying it, so print out a few meganobz and see how they play, if you like them, etc, before you spend an unholy amount on the actual unit...

Oh and those Trukks look absolutely bloody rediculous  Soorry had to say that one lol

Overall a good idea I feel.


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## El Mariachi

The vehicles look good enough and I'd quite happily play against them although I'd draw the line at the 'tube boyz'. Just no. On the other hand who am I to complain? GW's last price rise priced me out of buying any more units (i was only getting infantry models as the last vehicle price rise priced me out of getting any more tanks) so i haven't bought anything in ages. I still play occasionally although with what little time i have left, I try and make some varied cheapish terrain to keep things fresh.

Anyone who can still afford to add to their collection is quite privileged


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## OrkByTheGraceOfGork

Itybih2ku, how about *orkified origami*?

More power to you. Stick it to the man!!! It should be understood that some people have a great imagination, want to share in their friend's hobbies but do not have the means to and can't/won't exchange their organs or limbs to finance their "divertissement". It can be a f**kin expensive experience!:crazy:


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## texcuda

awesome man, don't let the rules lawyers get ya down! :laugh:


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## Unforgiven302

I would have a problem playing against a person who brought that to a gaming club. I couldn't do it. I don't expect my opponents to have fully painted armies or even a fully WYSIWYG list, but I do expect to play against actual models. They don't even have to be GW models, they can be from a different game system or manufacturer all together, but I do expect plastic, metal or resin models none-the-less, not paper dolls.

Is it even creative? No, not really. It just reeks of being cheap. It is a game/hobby of miniatures after all, not paper dolls and paste like in kindergarten. 

The only exception to this would be for trying a new unit or item before buying or building the actual model(s). That would have to be the only time I would allow it, and even then, one or two games max. After that, buy or build an actual model and recycle the paper.

Sorry, I don't like or agree with it.


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## The Boz

I'd probably play you once. Maybe. Sorry. There's proxying a unit in an army, and then there's _this_.


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## Itybih2ku

To all those who disapprove:

Thanks for the feedback. I posted these to share for anyone to use. I do not really care for you're opinion. I also do not care that you would rather me spend the 100s of dollars to field this. I will continue to use these as I see fit. If you REALLY have a problem with people using them, the only one truly losing out is you. As you are now losing out on an opponent.


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## The Boz

Itybih2ku said:


> If you REALLY have a problem with people using them, the only one truly losing out is you. As you are now losing out on an opponent.


That's like screaming "You're losing out on a great shag!" after a woman who is running away from you after you just tried to rape her.


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## Unforgiven302

My response is in blue:



Itybih2ku said:


> To all those who disapprove:
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> Your welcome.
> 
> If you REALLY have a problem with people using them, the only one truly losing out is you. As you are now losing out on an opponent.
> 
> That is fine by me as I feel this game/hobby is about visual appeal and aesthetics just as much, if not more so than winning or even the random pickup game I can get in. I, (and countless others around the world) spent the time and energy to build, paint and generally have an army that I can be proud to display and use.
> Paper stuff like that is a slap in the face to those who take the time and put in the effort to have a visually appealing army to use.
> 
> I have seen paper tanks and vehicles before that were just as good as the actual model they were based on. Those are more acceptable as they showed that the person that built them put a lot of time and effort into them. Those you posted are laughable at best.
> 
> Here is a LINK to what I am speaking of. That is a quality bit of modeling and effort put forth to make something out of paper.
> 
> Here is another on an even larger scale, a titan. LINK.
> 
> I would play against an entire army of those, without question.


Sorry if I am coming off a bit harsh, or even dickheaded, I do not truly mean to be but I feel that strongly about it. 

If you are having fun playing the game and your opponent is good with it, who am I to complain really... k:


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## Itybih2ku

The Boz said:


> That's like screaming "You're losing out on a great shag!" after a woman who is running away from you after you just tried to rape her.


Wait. I am somehow "raping" you by plaing with this army. It must be because of the way you are dressed, you are just asking for it.

I personally think that you are just being a bit stuffy. Here, have a drink. I promise there's nothing in it.


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## The Boz

No, I'm saying that playing you would probably be as enjoyable as being raped by a muscular black man.
For starters, your models are ugly. But that's plain to see. 
Then, only your tanks have weapons modelled, and only the main turret. So you measure LOS from what, exactly? 
I'll have that drink now, thank you.


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## bitsandkits

Itybih2ku said:


> To all those who disapprove:
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I posted these to share for anyone to use. I do not really care for you're opinion. I also do not care that you would rather me spend the 100s of dollars to field this. I will continue to use these as I see fit. If you REALLY have a problem with people using them, the only one truly losing out is you. As you are now losing out on an opponent.


Well the same could be said for you, because you are not willing to invest in models you are quite likely putting off opponents, as other have said the game of 40k is a miniature based wargame, By all means look for ways to save money on models but at the very least show your opponent a level of respect and scratch build or convert a cheap kit.

Plus to be honest the ork army is one of the cheapest and most versatile and convertible armies for those on a tight budget, and you can pretty much scratchbuild and convert any model and field it as an ork vehicle not to mention you can pick up Ork boys from the AOBR for a pittance on ebay.

Personally i find proxy's disrespectful (unless its for rule test purposes), i will let someone use a predator as a rhino for an odd game, but if you want to upturn a bucket and call it a stompa your shit out of luck and the same goes for paper models.


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## Itybih2ku

bitsandkits said:


> Well the same could be said for you, because you are not willing to invest in models you are quite likely putting off opponents, as other have said the game of 40k is a miniature based wargame, By all means look for ways to save money on models but at the very least show your opponent a level of respect and scratch build or convert a cheap kit.
> 
> Plus to be honest the ork army is one of the cheapest and most versatile and convertible armies for those on a tight budget, and you can pretty much scratchbuild and convert any model and field it as an ork vehicle not to mention you can pick up Ork boys from the AOBR for a pittance on ebay.
> 
> Personally i find proxy's disrespectful (unless its for rule test purposes), i will let someone use a predator as a rhino for an odd game, but if you want to upturn a bucket and call it a stompa your shit out of luck and the same goes for paper models.


Which is fine. I have a gaming group I do play with, and they don't mind. (Though I do get a bit of well deserved ribbing).

I'm Cheap, but they want me to play. This was my solution. If you scoff, thats your business. I'll find less picky people and then I'll enjoy playing the game.

I play the game to play the game. As is, I don't give a Space marine's ass (slightly below a rat's) what your opinion of my models are.


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## SGMAlice

This can only devolve further; Into obscenity. I suggest you all let it go now. If he has some one to play then fine. If you dont like it then fine. We all have opinions.

Lets not start a war here eh

SGMAlice


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## bitsandkits

To be honest Alice this is how forums work, people post things and the members either agree or disagree in opinion, if we simply decided to agree to disagree it would be a pretty boring place.


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## Unforgiven302

Itybih2ku said:


> I play the game to play the game. As is, I don't give a Space marine's ass (slightly below a rat's) what your opinion of my models are.


But they are not models, they are paper doll representations of models. 

Anyway, in the spirit of of good sportsmanship, have fun with your dollies. :biggrin:


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## turel2

Those paper models are good for one off games and trying new armies.

But long term real minis are better, as they will out last paper.


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## SGMAlice

bitsandkits said:


> To be honest Alice this is how forums work, people post things and the members either agree or disagree in opinion, if we simply decided to agree to disagree it would be a pretty boring place.


You failed to grasp my meaning..... Unsuprising.

SGMAlice


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## bitsandkits

SGMAlice said:


> You failed to grasp my meaning..... Unsuprising.
> 
> SGMAlice


well maybe you should explain it to me?


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## Itybih2ku

turel2 said:


> Those paper models are good for one off games and trying new armies.
> 
> But long term real minis are better, as they will out last paper.


True. But it takes no real time to re-build. The tubes take 5 min or less for a page of 16 minis. Plus, they'll still last a VERY long time with small amount of care. 

To put it another way, If someone accidentally breaks your battle wagon you are out 60 bucks, + Construction and painting time.

I'm out 6 sheets of paper, and about 2 hours of work.


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## gally912

Well, I'd just like to chip in that when I saw the pictures, I smiled and said: "Ha! Creative."

As a side note, what could be more orky than building vehicles without original proper parts?


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## NeroRat

this is a very creative thing you did here Itybih2kuj--something I would have never thought to do. For me though, warhammer is ~60% about the models and 40% gaming. And for me it is more about visual appeal than anything else. But if you're more about the gaming side of things and have fun making the paper models and have people who don't mind you using a paper army then by all means go for it and have fun!


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## bitsandkits

Itybih2ku said:


> True. But it takes no real time to re-build. The tubes take 5 min or less for a page of 16 minis. Plus, they'll still last a VERY long time with small amount of care.
> 
> To put it another way, If someone accidentally breaks your battle wagon you are out 60 bucks, + Construction and painting time.
> 
> I'm out 6 sheets of paper, and about 2 hours of work.


you can try to justify them all you want but at the end of the day you have produced them because you either cant afford or dont want to pay for the actual models, which on this kinda level just defeats being involved in the hobby, I could stretch and say that the vehicles i can understand the point, but making paper tubes for ork infantry is just a step too far for me.
Like i said it just shows a huge lack of respect for the game and your opponent, but if your Ok with it that's great and if your completely sure your gaming group is Ok with it thats great too, personally i feel they are either humoring you or possibly just laughing at you behind your back and what you consider "ribbing" may actually them being diplomatic about your army.


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## Katie Drake

I see. So because someone can't afford models they don't deserve to be a part of the hobby. That makes sense.


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## gally912

bitsandkits said:


> you can try to justify them all you want but at the end of the day you have produced them because you either cant afford or dont want to pay for the actual models, which on this kinda level just defeats being involved in the hobby, I could stretch and say that the vehicles i can understand the point, but making paper tubes for ork infantry is just a step too far for me.
> Like i said it just shows a huge lack of respect for the game and your opponent, but if your Ok with it that's great and if your completely sure your gaming group is Ok with it thats great too, personally i feel they are either humoring you or possibly just laughing at you behind your back and what you consider "ribbing" may actually them being diplomatic about your army.


So, I take it your the type who would refuse to play baseball on the sandlot and pokes fun at the poor kids who want to play but have to borrow gloves, neh?


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## Tzeen Qhayshek

Save the forests! Buy plastics!

I don't think I would play you. Sorry. This is crossing a line for me. I would surely hope you plan on picking up models someday when things change.


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## Itybih2ku

I plan on picking up the Island of Blood Fantasy set this week.

But the idea is if the main book is 75, for 100 I can get the book, sticks, models, templates, etc.

That will probably be my only purchase though. I'll Square and paper any other models I want for the game.


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## Tzeen Qhayshek

If you are willing to spend money on models, why not just collect them over time?


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## Itybih2ku

Tzeen Qhayshek said:


> If you are willing to spend money on models, why not just collect them over time?


I'm not really willing to spend money on models. This set is pretty much the exception to my rule.

Like I said, everything else I'll Tube up.


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## Unforgiven302

Itybih2ku said:


> I'm not really willing to spend money on models. This set is pretty much the exception to my rule.
> 
> Like I said, everything else I'll Tube up.


So it really is because you are cheap? Not just poor or broke, but dirt ass cheap. :laugh:


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## Itybih2ku

Unforgiven302 said:


> So it really is because you are cheap? Not just poor or broke, but dirt ass cheap. :laugh:


That is exactly what I said in the OP.

Didn't you read it? It was right at the very front of the post.


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## Unforgiven302

Itybih2ku said:


> That is exactly what I said in the OP.
> 
> Didn't you read it? It was right at the very front of the post.


I was too distracted by the pictures of wadded up toilet paper on a game board you posted... :shok:


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## Itybih2ku

Unforgiven302 said:


> I was too distracted by the pictures of wadded up toilet paper on a game board you posted... :shok:


Hey, TP has only been used on ONE mock up. And that was on a spore pod for the Nids. If you haven't you should really try it. Lay on a square of TP and then hit it with a spray bottle. Creates a VERY cool skin texture. You just have to paint it after the fact.

Of course, I'm sure you'd turn a nose up at that too, not everyone can be as L337 as you are.


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## Unforgiven302

Itybih2ku said:


> Hey, TP has only been used on ONE mock up. And that was on a spore pod for the Nids. If you haven't you should really try it. Lay on a square of TP and then hit it with a spray bottle. Creates a VERY cool skin texture. You just have to paint it after the fact.
> 
> Of course, I'm sure you'd turn a nose up at that too, not everyone can be as L337 as you are.


If a homemade model looked good or even closely resembled what it was supposed to be, I do not have a problem with it. I have played against lego dreadnoughts, self cast resin models and even a guy who made all of his tanks (9 of them, all Leman Russ') from wood. They were done to a point that it was hard to tell his tanks from those of an actual store bought model. Creativity is free and limitless, you are just cheap and lazy.


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## Itybih2ku

Unforgiven302 said:


> you are just cheap and lazy.


I thank you for the compliment!

I'm more concerned about playing. If I can PLAY without spending 100s of dollars, then I'll do that. As it is I've saved myself over 500 EASILY by a rough guestimation if I were to buy everything new.


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## Unforgiven302

Itybih2ku said:


> I thank you for the compliment!
> 
> I'm more concerned about playing. If I can PLAY without spending 100s of dollars, then I'll do that. As it is I've saved myself over 500 EASILY by a rough guestimation if I were to buy everything new.


Being lazy is nothing to be proud of, just so you know...

EDIT:
There are so many more ways to achieve better results than what you are doing though. Cast your own models, it can be super cheap and will be so much better looking. Wood, plastic card stock, foamboard and many other materials that are not only cheap but would produce a much better result. Those paper orks are just beyond my comprehension of being acceptable, it is just too much. The problem is that it just adds no flavor or any appeal to a game that is just as much about being visually attractive as it is about the actual rules and following them. i am sure you have seen a piece of shit car drive by right? Why settle for that rusty, smoking piece of shit car when you could put a bit of real effort into it and have a car that you don't need to wear a bag over your head while your driving?


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## Itybih2ku

Unforgiven302 said:


> Being lazy is nothing to be proud of, just so you know...


Oh, I think it quite depends on where the focus of one's laziness really is. My interests really lie beyond the mini wargame realm. If its something I'm REALLY interested in I'll put in some work.

On the other hand, that's not to say I didn't put some actual work into those models. They are quicker than perhaps the standard model, but they are still not the quickest and easiest thing to put together.

Each BW takes about 2 hours to do. Each Truck about an hour. Each Big Gun takes around 30-45 minutes. I don't recall how long the Rokkit took, somewhere around 2-3 hours. Its taken me a couple hours to work on my Stompa. And it'll probably take me a while on my Killa Kans and my Def Dreads.

I want something that I can PLAY with, not something I can put on display. I've looked at the paper models that are out there for Lehman russ's and such. They require way too much work for something I'm going to simply push around a table. But your priorities are different than mine. I don't care about playing the #*!$ measuring contest on who has the best painted model. I'm just looking to play.

I am sorry if my models don't measure up to your quality standards, but I THINK i'll get over it. If not there's always a 5th of Jack and a bottle of sleeping pills.


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## Katie Drake

Dude, you should seriously change your username to Paper Waaagh!. I swear this is one of the most epic things ever. Also, love how you're sticking it to all the haters. I'd rep you, but then I did that already. 

Katie D

EDIT: Here's someone else's idea of paperhammer. I actually prefer your tube idea as it gives them some dimension.


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## Masked Jackal

Remember guys, modeling is just *one* aspect of the hobby. Paper Waagh, as he is now officially named (No, you don't get a say in it. ), obviously doesn't like the modeling aspect. There is *nothing* wrong about that, and the methods he is using here allow him to enjoy the other two, especially gaming, more. If you wouldn't play against this army, I'd say that you're just too caught up in your high opinion of your own models, and the time you've spent on them, to ever think that maybe, just maybe, other people don't enjoy it as much as you do.


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## Itybih2ku

Unforgiven302 said:


> There are so many more ways to achieve better results than what you are doing though. Cast your own models, it can be super cheap and will be so much better looking. Wood, plastic card stock, foamboard and many other materials that are not only cheap but would produce a much better result. Those paper orks are just beyond my comprehension of being acceptable, it is just too much. The problem is that it just adds no flavor or any appeal to a game that is just as much about being visually attractive as it is about the actual rules and following them. i am sure you have seen a piece of shit car drive by right? Why settle for that rusty, smoking piece of shit car when you could put a bit of real effort into it and have a car that you don't need to wear a bag over your head while your driving?


Dude, I gave up caring about peoples negative opinions of me YEARS ago. If the beat up old jalopy RAN WITHOUT PROBLEMS then I'd drive it, even if it was primer colored, and had a trash bag covering the broken back drivers side window. I mean seriously, you are getting bent out of shape for my part of a hobby not being cool enough for you. Lets face it, its a game that many people play in their basement. ALOT OF THE WORLD looks down on it. 

Seriously, judging people by their stuff was supposed to be left behind in high school.


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## The Son of Horus

...really guys? What's with the haterade in here?

First, you know... if all you want out of the game is the game, then that's fine. And this is a perfectly reasonable way to go about doing it if you don't feel the urge to drop hundreds of dollars on it. Would I find it a little tiring sometimes? Maybe. I certainly wouldn't mind the cardstock vehicles. But ultimately, it's not really my call, now, is it?

I'd be aware that your opponents may or may not put up with cardstock models indefinitely. One of the things that's always set Warhammer apart from other games is the hobby focus. As someone who paints miniatures to pay the majority of his rent, I'm of the opinion that you're honestly missing out by not at least giving the hobby end a go. 

Either way, there's no excuse for people coming in here and flaming you over it, Itbih. If you're getting what you want out of the game and the hobby, then ultimately, that's what's important. If not (and I do seriously suspect that at some point, other folks will want to play against real models), then adjust what you do. 

On the subject of buying models... the simple fact of the matter is that if you really wanted, you could play 40k using pennies as markers for infantry units. "But what about true line of sight, Horus?" I hear you cry? Measure an inch up from the base. Most models are about an inch tall. Problem solved. While you might say you "have" to have the models, that's ultimately just because Games Workshop's business is selling you plastic spacemen. 

Oh, and everyone that's flamed Ityb in here... stop being douchebags.


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## Amoeba Bait

@ Itybih2ku (or should I say Paper Waaagh!). I don't really see what the big problem is. I fyour cool with it and your opponents cool with it,m then you fine.
I mean, I recently got into Battlefleet Gothic, (which is awesome btw), but I dont own any figures, so I proxied them. 



















I understand that people are entitled to their opinions, but if they're going to just bitch about something and not enjoy the game, then they're not worth your time.
Granted painting and constructing models is fun, but not everyone enjoys it as much as others (something this guy at my local GW should learn. I've played him about 3-4 times and i've never seen him with a painted miniature).

Remember, it's all but a game built for your enjoyment. If your having fun, then your doing it right.
:victory:


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## Itybih2ku

Katie Drake said:


> Dude, you should seriously change your username to Paper Waaagh!. I swear this is one of the most epic things ever. Also, love how you're sticking it to all the haters. I'd rep you, but then I did that already.
> 
> Katie D
> 
> EDIT: Here's someone else's idea of paperhammer. I actually prefer your tube idea as it gives them some dimension.


Thanks Katie! I might just change my name 

Oh I did quite a bit of looking for paper models before I started my own program. I saw that very picture. I'll admit his nids look much better than a tube army, but they completely screw up LOS for the game. Thats why I settled on Tubes.

The paper models I've downloaded from other people either come with poor instructions, or are designed to mimic the GH models down to even adding a cut out for each rivet on the tank. I wanted something to quickly be able to put together to play. 

Lets face it, paper models are easily destroyed. However, I could probably replace my entire collection of models in about 20 hours of work with a rough guestimate, using only about 5-10 bucks of material.

Thats not bad considering this is my collection of models:

3 battle wagons 
6 Trukks 
9 Big Gunzz (stand-ins for any of Lobba, ZZap or Kannon) 
1 Pulsa Rokkit 
1 Stompa (Design not ready to publish) 
2 Looted Wagons 
3 Killa Kans (design not ready to publish) 
1 Deff Dread (Design not ready to publish) 

15 Burna Boys 
15 Kommandos 
30 Lootas 
15 Storm Boys 
10 Nobs 
12 Mega Nobs 
15 Tank Bustas 
6 Meks 
6 Pain boys 
6 Runt-herds 
6 Squigs 
20 Grots 
1 War Boss 
1 Big Mek 
1 Weirdboy/Warphead 
1 Gazthul Thrakka 
1Mad Doc Grotznik 
1 Boss Snikrot 
1 Boss Zagstruk 
15 Flash Gitz


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## Amoeba Bait

Itybih2ku said:


> Seriously, judging people by their stuff was supposed to be left behind in high school.


Quoted! k: I hate highschool and all it's kindergarten type predjuice.


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## Itybih2ku

]


Amoeba Bait said:


> @ Itybih2ku (or should I say Paper Waaagh!). I don't really see what the big problem is. I fyour cool with it and your opponents cool with it,m then you fine.
> I mean, I recently got into Battlefleet Gothic, (which is awesome btw), but I dont own any figures, so I proxied them.
> 
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> I understand that people are entitled to their opinions, but if they're going to just bitch about something and not enjoy the game, then they're not worth your time.
> Granted painting and constructing models is fun, but not everyone enjoys it as much as others (something this guy at my local GW should learn. I've played him about 3-4 times and i've never seen him with a painted miniature).
> 
> Remember, it's all but a game built for your enjoyment. If your having fun, then your doing it right.
> :victory:


I recommend you take a look at the following game from I don't know how its models stack up in size or anything else compared to battlefleet gothic, but if it does line up, then you could probably get some quality ships from the set.

I built both fleets a while back and ate up about 100 bucks in ink. (Stupid ink jet).

It was quite a bit of work, but it was worth it in the end. (Besides, its hard to paper proxy models that are already paper.)


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## Amoeba Bait

Thanks man. You keep on Trukk'n. :victory:


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## bitsandkits

Masked Jackal said:


> Remember guys, modeling is just *one* aspect of the hobby. Paper Waagh, as he is now officially named (No, you don't get a say in it. ), obviously doesn't like the modeling aspect. There is *nothing* wrong about that, and the methods he is using here allow him to enjoy the other two, especially gaming, more. If you wouldn't play against this army, I'd say that you're just too caught up in your high opinion of your own models, and the time you've spent on them, to ever think that maybe, just maybe, other people don't enjoy it as much as you do.


thanks for the - rep :laugh:

sorry but i have to disagree, Modeling is not just an "aspect" you can chuck away, he still needs game pieces and these paper tubes are dare i say it "models" and in his own words he is too cheap to buy the actual models so proxy's an army with paper. 
If this was just a case of he couldnt afford to be in the hobby and was looking for a way to have a playable army while slowly collecting the Orks,then i would be the first to congratulate him for his ingenuity.

If some guy showed up week in week out to your club with this paper ork army would you honestly keep playing him ?bearing in mind he has said its because he wont fork out for the models, he can but he wont?


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## Bubblematrix

On one hand I like the ingenuity, every new kind of army model/paintjob I see even if I hate it interests me - I like to see how different people choose to represent their plastic space men. And you sir have definitely come up with a novel approach and gone to town with it.

However, I personally would not enjoy a game against this.

For me the game is not just the rules (if it was I sure as hell wouldn't play 40k, but that is another discussion) for me the game is the whole.
I like to play using well constructed terrain and scenery, with crafted models and against people out to use tactics andarmy variety - take one aspect away from this and I feel cheated.

For example, I played my second (my first was the GW demo in store) game of WFB at the weekend. We had the GW grass mat and a few fantasy trees we had around, but we didn't have enough fantasy scenery to set up a board - so I had to reach for my terrain-to-be box and choose some materials.
I actually found myself looking at the "temple", made from aerosol cans and a cork mat, and didn't enjoy the game as much as I would have if I had made some "real" scenery to play with.

I can see why you would want to make a cheap paper army, and if your play group is happy with it who am I to question. But on a personal level I wouldn't be happy with it as a permanent fixture.
I just need all of the elements in place to make my game fully enjoyable. 

Part of that is the plastic models
Part of that is the table I play on
Part of it is the rules
Part of it the people
Part of it is even the randomness of the dice

Substituting any of these things to me would make my game feel cheated as they all form the hobby which I enjoy.

That said, you are happy with it and so are your play group so what is there to discuss


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## fynn

great idea there, but i see it from a different point of view, haveing paper armys are a great way to introduce kids to the game, give em a paper army each, they can play a few games to get used to the rules and the way the army works, and if they like it and want to stick with the game, you can then start spending cash on proper models. ive know too many parents spend cash of 40K/WHFB for there kids, only for the kid to get bored with it and just dump the models (unless i can get there first that is..............lol).
so for introduceing someone to the game, there great.
And dont forget when both WH and 40K came out, they had cut out paper figures in the books.


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## Pssyche

If you don't care for or want other people's opinions on your models, why did you post them on a forum that you know you will get instant feedback from? 
Unless, of course, you just want everybody to backslap you saying "What a great idea! Why didn't someone else think of that before?"

Oh, and somebody did think of it before. 
Games Workshop.
Rogue Trader had cut out counters in the back of the book for both the Space Marine and Ork armies that appeared in the Scenario that came in the original rulebook.


Your stuff is shit.


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## The Boz

Katie Drake said:


> EDIT: Here's someone else's idea of paperhammer. I actually prefer your tube idea as it gives them some dimension.


I'm sorry, but I have to ask... are you on drugs or any other kind of medication?
You prefer rolled-up paper printed Boyz to this!? You find a sorry excuse for a trukk prettier than this!? ...How!?


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## Amoeba Bait

I thought there was a strict anti-flaming rule one this website. OK, you dont like it fine. Dont comment. Theres no need to be all 'you shit. I hate you for doing this. You killed the game.' So lets stop with all that. Its been said before, and I'm making that call again.
On the other hand, I do agree that modeling and painting are cruical parts of the hobby, and you are definaly misssing out if you dont own a few minis.

I think this thread is just going to de-rail into a endless debate on proxy-ing so lets just leave with the saying: If you havent anything nice to say, dont say anything at all.


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## Tzeen Qhayshek

I suppose all power to you then. I wish you luck with your projects. I would be more comfortable playing you if they were being used until the real thing, but I think we have enough levity here.

Happy hunting.


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## bitsandkits

Amoeba Bait said:


> I thought there was a strict anti-flaming rule one this website. OK, you dont like it fine. Dont comment. Theres no need to be all 'you shit. I hate you for doing this. You killed the game.' So lets stop with all that. Its been said before, and I'm making that call again.
> On the other hand, I do agree that modeling and painting are cruical parts of the hobby, and you are definaly misssing out if you dont own a few minis.
> 
> I think this thread is just going to de-rail into a endless debate on proxy-ing so lets just leave with the saying: If you havent anything nice to say, dont say anything at all.


im sure if the MODS see anything they are not happy with they will act so no need to worry, plus im not sure that this thread can be derailed into a debate about proxying when the opening post was about paper orks, if we were now talking about donkey killing you may have a case for a derailed thread.


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## The Boz

Amoeba Bait said:


> If you havent anything nice to say, dont say anything at all.


This bit is anathema to me. If I wanted to join a sycophantic board full of yes-men, I would have.


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## Itybih2ku

Pssyche said:


> If you don't care for or want other people's opinions on your models, why did you post them on a forum that you know you will get instant feedback from?
> Unless, of course, you just want everybody to backslap you saying "What a great idea! Why didn't someone else think of that before?"
> 
> Your stuff is shit.


Simple, I posted it to share the work. Judging from the number of downloads people have done of the various files, Its not as unpopular as you might like it to be.

I posted, not for the atta boys or the you go!s, I posted it so other people could download it. The only reason I even posted pictures is so people could see what they were downloading, and get a good idea of how things are suposed to fit together.


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## Aramoro

I quite like the paper models, quite creative and nice way to experiment with stuff. 

I do realise though that toy soldiers are very serious business though. Heaven forbid anyone deviate from the accepted way to play toy soldiers. I mean man barbies cannot be taken lightly. Though I suggest that if you think playing against paper models as as fun and getting raped by a muscular black man that you might have lost some element of perspective. I would suggest that when presented with a gaming table and a muscular black man you would sit down and play that game every single time. 

Unless getting raped by muscular black guys is your thing Boz, i'm not here to judge. In fact maybe The Boz was saying how much fun it would be to play against this paper force because he loves being raped by muscular balck men so much?

You are playing with toys. Just because someone else's toys are not as shiny as your own is no reason to cast said toys from your pram. Seings how you sell GW miniatures and parts I can see why you are against it B&K, simple business sense really.

Aramoro


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## The Boz

As I mentioned before, there are actual gameplay considerations involved. Funny how everyone seems to ignore those...


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## EmbraCraig

So does no one else remember when GW used to give you sheets of tokens to cut out and print from the backs of the rulebooks to play the introductory scenarios then? The old Warhammer Siege book had a good few pages of Dwarf and Orcs & Goblin units if I remember rightly (well it had the pages of units, just not sure about the armies).


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## The Boz

So does no one else remember when people used to race horse-drawn carriages? Why can't I enter my horse-drawn carriage at the Indy 500!?


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## Aramoro

The Boz said:


> As I mentioned before, there are actual gameplay considerations involved. Funny how everyone seems to ignore those...


Hmm i'm pretty sure you just said it would be about as fun as getting raped by a muscular black man



The Boz said:


> No, I'm saying that playing you would probably be as enjoyable as being raped by a muscular black man.
> For starters, your models are ugly. But that's plain to see.
> Then, only your tanks have weapons modelled, and only the main turret. So you measure LOS from what, exactly?
> I'll have that drink now, thank you.



Yup that's what you said. So is that saying you would find the game fun or not? Where on the fun scale is getting raped by a muscular black man stand for you? Super fun maybe? If he modelled all the turrets would take make it more fun? Say getting raped by a Mexican gentleman?

Aramoro


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## The Boz

If I was gonna get raped, I'd rather it be a small ****** than a Terry Crews-like dude.


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## Aramoro

The Boz said:


> If I was gonna get raped, I'd rather it be a small ****** than a Terry Crews-like dude.


Ah so you prefer being raped by the smaller gentlemen then. That's clears it up thankyou. 

I'm with you though, toy soldiers is serious business. A poorly modelled battlewagon is basically the same as being raped. These bastards who insist on having 'fun' and playing a 'game' can go get bent. Its not about that, it's about dressing up your pretty dol...serious gaming miniatures. 

Aramoro


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## The Boz

You consider not playing with someone's dollies serious business?


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## Marneus Calgar

I wouldn't go up against it. The hobby is about the models, not about paper things. I think this is a rubbish way of showing your "hobby".


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## El Mariachi

Just browsed through this again, feel free to disagree with the guy as I do (as I said in my original post I would allow the tanks but really the tube orks) but what a lot of people are saying is bordering on offensive. Let's keep this friendly eh? this isn't Warseer.


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## Itybih2ku

El Mariachi said:


> Just browsed through this again, feel free to disagree with the guy as I do (as I said in my original post I would allow the tanks but really the tube orks) but what a lot of people are saying is bordering on offensive. Let's keep this friendly eh? this isn't Warseer.


Thanks. Its quite alright though, as I said. I could care less about the haters. My goal is to spread the files. As it is, I've had a fair share of downloads. I don't expect people will go to the extreme total paper army I have, but that's not the point. The tubes are very useful for army testing, proxying, or anything else.

I've done the "tubes" for a game called malifaux that a friend and myself are interested in. I've done it for every model in the main book. We can easily test the game out, play it to our hearts content, and now never "HAVE" to buy a model in order to play. The group may want to later down the road, but that will be a decision of aesthetics than needing to buy to play.


I think my next tube army will end up being Necrons, if I don't do the Skaven for WHFB.

 But please, keep arguing with me. It keeps this at the top of the forums so that others can continue to download the files.


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## Jdwoogie

When you get the necron army tubes and vehicles pm me the link. My friend wants to start a necron army but he's in the army and has no place to store his models or the time to paint or assemble them till he's out next year. It would be a great tool for him to use.
thanks in advance,

woog out!

@ unforgiving i think my sig comes in handy for this thread as well... thanks again


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## the-ad-man

bitch bitch, moan moan. 

seriously, let this thread die. 
its just full of people on both sides felling very butthurt that not everyone agrees with them.
(psst.... no offence but you can do what you like. i, as well as most people here, will never see you in real life)


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## EmbraCraig

The Boz said:


> So does no one else remember when people used to race horse-drawn carriages? Why can't I enter my horse-drawn carriage at the Indy 500!?


Because it's in the rules of the race - you can feel free to race your buddies cars outside of competitions though, which would be a closer comparison to what we're taking about here.


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## Unforgiven302

Jdwoogie said:


> @ unforgiving i think my sig comes in handy for this thread as well... thanks again


I so couldn't agree more...


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## bitsandkits

Aramoro said:


> Seings how you sell GW miniatures and parts I can see why you are against it B&K, simple business sense really.
> 
> Aramoro


I have a trade account with Staples so if your genuinely interested paper Orks, i do you special price!!


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## Masked Jackal

bitsandkits said:


> thanks for the - rep :laugh:


Using it for what it's meant for.



> sorry but i have to disagree, Modeling is not just an "aspect" you can chuck away, he still needs game pieces and these paper tubes are dare i say it "models" and in his own words he is too cheap to buy the actual models so proxy's an army with paper.
> If this was just a case of he couldnt afford to be in the hobby and was looking for a way to have a playable army while slowly collecting the Orks,then i would be the first to congratulate him for his ingenuity.


Unfortunately for your argument, it *is* just an aspect. If this hobby were merely Tabletop Modelling, then you might have a point, but this is Tabletop *Wargaming*. He can damn well do what he wants to.



> If some guy showed up week in week out to your club with this paper ork army would you honestly keep playing him ?bearing in mind he has said its because he wont fork out for the models, he can but he wont?


Yes, I would, and furthermore, I would support his decision, and creativity.


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## Katie Drake

bitsandkits said:


> im sure if the MODS see anything they are not happy with they will act so no need to worry,


You mean like this?



The Son of Horus said:


> Oh, and everyone that's flamed Ityb in here... stop being douchebags.


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## Daniel Harper

Simply put, I see this like PC gaming. Say me and a friend wanted to play a game online together, generally I'd go and buy it whereas they would torrent it. I would have no problem with this at first just to try the game out, but if they insisted on using this ill-gotten copy then I'd get annoyed purely because I bought it properly.

Saying that this is a great way for people to try it out and if they then buy bits here and there I'd be fine with it. In fact I'll rep you for what you've done and can't wait to see the necrons.


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## Warlock in Training

Pretty cool A good way to see if something works before buying it.


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## bitsandkits

Warlock in Training said:


> Pretty cool A good way to see if something works before buying it.


He aint buying it, thats his actual army


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## Itybih2ku

bitsandkits said:


> He aint buying it, thats his actual army


Yup 

No guilt or shame either.

Of course, what others want to use the *FREELY AVAILABLE MODELS* for is their own business.

I hope someone brings these to your shop/club to show off or use.


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## Masked Jackal

Itybih2ku said:


> I hope someone brings these to your shop/club to show off or use.


Would be good for getting reactions from asshole GW employees. :victory:


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## Tzeen Qhayshek

Masked Jackal said:


> Would be good for getting reactions from asshole GW employees. :victory:


Now THAT would get my attention.


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## Itybih2ku

Tzeen Qhayshek said:


> Now THAT would get my attention.


I'm sure it would.

Though one thing I'm sure GW wouldn't realize is this:

The people, like me, who would use an army like this would never spend money on GW stuff to begin with. The only $$ i've spent thats gone in the direction of GW has been the ork codex.


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## Ste

Ok this just seems silly? sure its a good idea to proxy the army but it seems pointless to me to never buy and GW models if ur playing warhammer? 
But if its cool il use my boots as warlord titans  woo jump on the band wagon (Y) 

-ste-


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## Itybih2ku

Ste said:


> But if its cool il use my boots as warlord titans  woo jump on the band wagon (Y)
> 
> -ste-


I'm sensing Sarcasm....


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## the-ad-man

Itybih2ku said:


> I'm sensing Sarcasm....


the force is strong with this one......


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## slugsung88

Itybih2ku

First off I just want to say this thread is EPIC! 

As for me, since I don't play the game, I'm 100% model (I buy them cause they are cool, so I probably waste more money than you guys in term of playability) and 0% gaming. The whole gaming aspect doesn't appeal to me, but that probably cause I have no one else to play with. The other problems is that if you play the games, some of the more nifty model are not use as much like (space marine scout) which I think look a lot like IG. 

If your name became Paper Waagh, seriously dude that would be awesome! I give you prop for your creativity, of course since I don't play the game, it would be useless. I like your vehicle but your tube soldier has got to go. If there was one paper model that I would like, (not that I want to) is the Imperial Guard BaneBlade/StormLord. 

I know you don't plan on buying if now or ever, but some of the more impressive model like the Ork Battlewagon makes me drool.

Though I would love to bring this in to that Jerk and see him cringe.


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## Ste

the-ad-man said:


> the force is strong with this one......


yes very strong, but by no means am i being sarcastic i mean as we speak im printing off a titan vinyl to stick on my boots because i dont want to give gw money so that they can put more work into the hobby i like 

-ste-


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## Itybih2ku

Ste said:


> yes very strong, but by no means am i being sarcastic i mean as we speak im printing off a titan vinyl to stick on my boots because i dont want to give gw money so that they can put more work into the hobby i like
> 
> -ste-


Just wait until HOME 3d printing becomes affordable...

Then I'll get rid of my Paper Proxies, download the CAD files, and print my own resin waagh

I do have a set of rules for my models when i do them. 

-Be recognizable for what they are after a quick intro.
-Maintain a fair amount of consistancy with LOS rules so that nothing is truly game breaking.


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## Ste

I dont understand why if you want to make a green tide you dont just buy hundreds of AOBR boys? there cheap as dirt from bits sites.
I would not play against paper models sorry :/ great iniative but i dont spend hours putting together and painting my models to a what i think of as a good standard to see my opponent stick up a few hundred paper tubes?
-ste-


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## Unforgiven302

Ste said:


> I dont understand why if you want to make a green tide you dont just buy hundreds of AOBR boys?
> -ste-


Because he is as tight with a penny as anyone could be. He is a self proclaimed cheapskate. 

There is no arguing that paper tubes as models is fine if you are just trying out a new army for one or two games before making a commitment to the models. Not a problem there, I think that is ok at home against a friend. But this guy has said that this IS his army... and will be.

To each his/her own.


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## Ste

Unforgiven302 said:


> Because he is as tight with a penny as anyone could be. He is a self proclaimed cheapskate.
> 
> There is no arguing that paper tubes as models is fine if you are just trying out a new army for one or two games before making a commitment to the models. Not a problem there, I think that is ok at home against a friend. But this guy has said that this IS his army... and will be.
> 
> To each his/her own.


He even stated he has money but just doesnt want to spend it? i mean yeah GW is expensive but the orcs can be collected cheaply? its just annoying to be honest :/

-ste-


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## Warlock in Training

I like the accurate and creative way to "try out" a Ork List. These models is Ricockulas expensive. Again I like to play against a nicely painted model army, but if someone came to the table with this, I have no problem, color the pics would be a Nice Touch.


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## Jdwoogie

So i've been observing this thread and i guess i'll take another shot at the dead horse. The summary of this arument is as follows:

Great idea, way to fuck over GW. I'll use them to test out a army. As long as you and your opponent are ok with it is a good way to play the game. vs. You have to be artistic, talented, rich, and have tons of free time to participate in playing plastic/metal space men!.


correct me if i'm wrong.

woog out!


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## slugsung88

Even though he has the money doesn't mean he will spent it on GW products. What I mean is even if you made enough income to buy GW, are those income use for more important things and he rather spent it on those important things (e.g. movies, dinner, etc...) and don't have much money left over or does he have lot of moneys (money not spent on anything else) and is just that cheap?

I can't understand the ladder but I can understand if he rather spent that money on something else. As for me I have to spent money one way or another, so I rather spend on something I can keep and collect and someday show it to my son how awesome I really am.....joking of course.

Oh one last thing, if I ever play a single game, I much rather play it with his paper Waagh then people who buy the model but never actually paint them or have like one color scheme.(for me that defeat the whole purpose)


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## Itybih2ku

Unforgiven302 said:


> Because he is as tight with a penny as anyone could be. He is a self proclaimed cheapskate.
> 
> There is no arguing that paper tubes as models is fine if you are just trying out a new army for one or two games before making a commitment to the models. Not a problem there, I think that is ok at home against a friend. But this guy has said that this IS his army... and will be.
> 
> To each his/her own.


I'm still at a loss as to why MY choice of playing this game leaves YOU butt hurt.

But to each his own.

I'd rather WAAAAAAAGH than WAAAAAAAAH!


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## Tzeen Qhayshek

I believe it is obvious to the fact that he is calling you a cheapstake. If you haven't noticed, that is what everyone is upset about.


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## Ste

Itybih2ku said:


> I'm still at a loss as to why MY choice of playing this game leaves YOU butt hurt.
> 
> But to each his own.
> 
> I'd rather WAAAAAAAGH than WAAAAAAAAH!


I doubt it makes us feel hurt? im geussing that its just really fucking annoying that you have just stuck a few stickers onto tubes? when we spend money on the hobby. look if you dont wanna spend money on the hobby at all. then why are you bothering to play it or spend time doing the games? I wouldnt mind as i said if u did it for two or three games as a proxy to make sure u liked the army but come on you have stated you wont buy any models? just absolutely pointless (Y)

-ste-


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## The Boz

In before reply that is something along the lines of 


> You're just jealous because he's creative and he thought of this first, before all you other sheeple.


Also, piracy.


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## bitsandkits

Itybih2ku said:


> I'm still at a loss as to why MY choice of playing this game leaves YOU butt hurt.
> 
> But to each his own.
> 
> I'd rather WAAAAAAAGH than WAAAAAAAAH!


Its pretty simple to understand and its not about your choice to play 40k, but the way you have chosen to play it, by your actions you are cheapening the game for others (your game group)but you cant see it or want to admit it, Its like saying your a big fan of the band Queen, but your music collection is all borrowed,copied or bootlegs,do you think that it might not sit well with other Queen fans if you went along to a weekly Queen application club or posted on a Queen fan forum?. 
But if you had bought cheap Queen albums from bargain bins or from ebay because you didnt want to pay the shop price, im sure Queen fans wouldn't have an issue.

I have had a few people minus rep me because of this thread(thanks again) and for some reason they feel i am in the wrong because Itybih2ku is poor and cant afford the models, can i ask that before you start dishing out minus rep that you take a moment and read all 11 pages and not jump to conclusions that hes making paper Orks because hes poor, in his own words he has done this because hes cheap which is his choice.If he simply couldn't afford the models but still wanted to play and came out and said so that would be completely different.


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## MidnightSun

Not wanting to appear sycophantic, but I still agree totally with B&K.

Midnight


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## the-ad-man

bits and kits is right, im just glad paper waaaagh isnt at my gaming club, as you'd be laughed out of the store


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## Itybih2ku

Ste said:


> I doubt it makes us feel hurt? im geussing that its just really fucking annoying that you have just stuck a few stickers onto tubes? when we spend money on the hobby. look if you dont wanna spend money on the hobby at all. then why are you bothering to play it or spend time doing the games? I wouldnt mind as i said if u did it for two or three games as a proxy to make sure u liked the army but come on you have stated you wont buy any models? just absolutely pointless (Y)
> 
> -ste-


1. That still sounds like your butt hurt.

2. Get over it. 

3. The GAME is fun to play.

4. It lets me spend money elsewhere.





Now onto a side note for people who would like tubes for their armies, either as proxies or as an entire army.

The file is a power point. The Ork Pictures are simply copy and pasted into the right places in the frame and then "Grouped"

To create a Tube for a specific figure:


Find the Ork Tube that is appropriate size to the one you are proxying. 
Delete the Ork Picture
Google a picture of the troop that you want.
Paste into PPT
Resize to fit the frame
Place into the appropriate box.
Re-name (or delete the name on the frame altogether
Copy the newly created figure until you have enough for a squad, or until you fill up the page, which ever comes first.
Viola! Finished Tube.

Vehicles are another story entirely. I don't have many tips on those. If one of the proxies I have will work for a Rhino, use it. Other wise, you are currently SOL.


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## MidnightSun

Admittedly, for proxies, it's a good idea. But only for one or two models.

Midnight


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## Itybih2ku

MidnightSun said:


> Admittedly, for proxies, it's a good idea. But only for one or two models.
> 
> Midnight


Admitteldy, thats for each group, and more specifically each person and opponent to agree on is it not?


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## MidnightSun

I meant for me, I throw away the models I mess up the paint scheme/construction on. Space Marine Captain, used a cheap spray that left bobbles, tried to paint strip but it left a film. Threw him out. Big Mek with KFF, converted him with KMB, didn't like it, out. DP, got sprayed over once too many times. Guess what? Out. I don't know how I sleep at night knowing I've thrown/given away at least £50 of models. So I just couldn't stand having a mere excuse for an army such as this one.

Midnight


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## Unforgiven302

Itybih2ku said:


> I'm still at a loss as to why MY choice of playing this game leaves YOU butt hurt.


I am not "butt hurt" in any way, so don't think I am. I have a strong opinion that the game is played with miniatures, be they GW ones, another manufacturer or even ones a person cast themselves, but true miniatures none-the-less. I have played against lego dreadnoughts before, and they looked decent enough. I have even played against a guy who made an entire armored column of IG leman russ tanks from wood. They looked just as good as the plastic kit GW puts out. I have no problem seeing that as the effort and final product looked presentable and good. 
I feel strongly that the essence of the game is diminished or lessened by paper tubes in the long run. As I have said before on more than one occasion, for a game or two, ok, but after that it would be nice to see a person invest in the hobby to have something that adds to the visual appeal of the game. By invest I mean either with money or with some skill and serious effort. I believe that the models are what bring most people into the game to begin with and the aesthetics of a well built and painted army is something to not only be proud of but also amazing to see on a table top. The game aspect alone is a multidimensional one with sportsmanship, tactics, luck and aesthetics all bundled into one. I feel that you and any opponent you face are missing out on the whole experience available to you when you field an army or paper tubes. 
As for playing against someone who brings something like that to the table, like I said, one game, maybe even a second, but after that, no more as I feel it detracts from the game itself. 
These are my opinions, just as yours are yours. I am not insulted, "butt hurt" or anything else you can think of, other than opinionated. Again, I have already said this but I will reiterate... to each his/her own...


----------



## Jdwoogie

MidnightSun said:


> I meant for me, I throw away the models I mess up the paint scheme/construction on. Space Marine Captain, used a cheap spray that left bobbles, tried to paint strip but it left a film. Threw him out. Big Mek with KFF, converted him with KMB, didn't like it, out. DP, got sprayed over once too many times. Guess what? Out. I don't know how I sleep at night knowing I've thrown/given away at least £50 of models. So I just couldn't stand having a mere excuse for an army such as this one.
> 
> Midnight



Instead of throwing those models away, I'll pm you my address and you can mail them to me once you have enough to fill a flat rate box. I don't have much money. I just converted a squad of Long fangs for my friend's space wolf army using chaos havoc missile launchers i got for cheap on e-bay. Any extra bits or figures i can get my hands on allow me to increase the amount of possessed chaos space marines i can field on the table. Congrats on being wealthy enough to toss models, but instead of tossing them in the trash, toss them to me, i'lll put them to good use.

@unforgiven- very nicely put. You don't sound "Butt hurt" or as I say butt touched. You're one of the few who state their point without being harsh. 

Woog out!


----------



## MidnightSun

Ok, I'm not wealthy (I can only afford maybe a box of Guardsmen a month) but it's just I'm a perfectionist. I also have a full Necron Phalanx + Battleforce + Lord + 2 Tomb Spyders (Missing arms) I don't really want, but I'm too mizerly to give anything away to anyone. Oh, and I'm soon receiving 2000pts+ of Chaos that I don't really want either.

Midnight

EDIT: BTW it's all going on eBay so don't send me offers


----------



## Unforgiven302

Jdwoogie said:


> @unforgiven- very nicely put. You don't sound "Butt hurt" or as I say butt touched. You're one of the few who state their point without being harsh.


Don't be too quick to give me any praise, I have been harsh in a few of my past posts about this subject.


----------



## Supersonic Banana

Look, I play the GAME (as you call it) for the cinematic feel it has when 2 armies crash headlong into each other. I want to see a chaos space marine and an ork having a scrap rather than my chaos space marine putting his chainsword through a bill board that says "ork boy".


----------



## MidnightSun

Yar, that be true. And part of the hobby for me is geting to the end of an evening, having painted a fuckload of Cadians, and going 'Great, that's even more Guardsmen for my force, and I can take pride in that fact' and array them on my bedside table (You see, I like to read at night and the flashlights save money on electricity :biggrin. You print of a sheet of paper and wrap them up and dabbing them with a spot of glue. I do that at school during lunchtime 'cos... well usually because I'm in the shit for something but you get the picture.

Midnight


----------



## Itybih2ku

Supersonic Banana said:


> Look, I play the GAME (as you call it) for the cinematic feel it has when 2 armies crash headlong into each other. I want to see a chaos space marine and an ork having a scrap rather than my chaos space marine putting his chainsword through a bill board that says "ork boy".


Its odd. I didn't know GW models moved... 

It always seems to me that what I see is your little statue standing next to my little statue not moving...


----------



## Traitoris Extremis

Thats really funny, i dont think i have ever seen anything like it. I have made rhinos out of cardboard but i have never thought of paper. but yea i would totally allow someone to play with that. simply because i just love playing. my friends dont have armies but they love to play with me. now that i dont have orc or space marines from Black Reach we just use paper flat of course with the unit names on them. we just bought some dexes and now we play all the time. but yea that is insanly cool. kudos on the work putting those together. hey look on the bright side, you dont have to buy paint.


----------



## MidnightSun

As B&K and I have stated more than once, this isn't because he doesn't have an army yet. It's because he doesn't want to spend money to support the hobby, whic in turn must lead to no sense of achievement. Like computer games, they're cool, but after nearly 5 hours you think 'What have I really done with today?'. Well I've painted some beatuiful models, and I look at my Guardsmen and I picture them as if they were real living creatures. I can do that, because they have pinky flesh, green armour and beige fatigues. If I just had bits of paper that wouldn't happen. In short, I would throw them out because I think they're shit.

No offence, hats off for being creative but they just don't stand up to real models and, to me, cry out 'The guy who owns me is a lazy fuck!'

Those who know me on Heresy will know that this is the first time I have used more than one curse word in a single post :shok:

Midnight

EDIT: I wouldn't mind if you had posted them and said 'Here's some proxies I'm using just to try out the army' you would have got much more positive replies. But what you've really said is 'Screw you, I have free models and you don't, aren't I a genius?'. It's not the models that piss me off, it's the manner in which they are presented.


----------



## Traitoris Extremis

Its not bad for like temporary, as long as you are making some sort of attempt to progress your army. but yea after a while if you never bought anything people might eventually get annoyed by it. but i still think it is neat.


----------



## Itybih2ku

MidnightSun said:


> EDIT: I wouldn't mind if you had posted them and said 'Here's some proxies I'm using just to try out the army' you would have got much more positive replies. But what you've really said is 'Screw you, I have free models and you don't, aren't I a genius?'. It's not the models that piss me off, it's the manner in which they are presented.


Of course that's NOT what I said at all. Not even close. Its not even a paraphrase.

I said "I have made some free models, down load them and you can have them! Please, enjoy the fruits of MY labor. Share in my prosperity."


----------



## MidnightSun

Itybih2ku said:


> Yup
> 
> No guilt or shame either.
> 
> Of course, what others want to use the *FREELY AVAILABLE MODELS* for is their own business.
> 
> I hope someone brings these to your shop/club to show off or use.



They're not freely available models. They are bits of paper.



Itybih2ku said:


> Of course, I'm sure you'd turn a nose up at that too, not everyone can be as L337 as you are.


And I find that a bit 'Oh well, I don't care, I have free models and you don't, screw you'. And wtf is L337?

Midnight

And now you've gone and made my 500th post an angry one. Meh!


----------



## SGMAlice

ooo!! fan boi wordage!!.... Pfft idiocy
'L337' means 'Elite'

Remember when you'd input 80085 on a calculator and turn it upside down? (I know you did, there is no use denying it) 
it spelt 'BOOBS'
This is the same kind of thing; using numbers as proxy for letters.
It was popular for a time, Commonly refering to Counterstrike players (Pure idiocy in my opinion and Unreal Tournament was better ) 

A nice lesson in interweb culture for you :laugh:

SGMAlice


----------



## MidnightSun

Thank you, SGMalice. Learn something new every day, huh? 

May you also enlighten me to the rest of this interweb knowledge, such as 'Fan Boi Wordage?'. This is what happens when you live ina village full of chavs and old people with only Heresy Online, a Nintendo DS with no games and a vast pile of necron sprues to occupy you for six weeks. You lose track 

Midnight


----------



## SGMAlice

MidnightSun said:


> Thank you, SGMalice. Learn something new every day, huh?


Always, my friend, always.

Your welcome

SGMAlice


----------



## The Boz

SGMAlice said:


> Remember when you'd input 80085 on a calculator and turn it upside down? (I know you did, there is no use denying it)
> it spelt 'BOOBS'


No, it spells SBOOB...


----------



## SGMAlice

The Boz said:


> No, it spells SBOOB...


Oops!! :shok:
Pfft! my bad :laugh:

You know what i meant

SGMAlice


----------



## Blue Liger

Except he shouldn't have to know what that leet speak means as it's not meant to be on the site, it's in the rules!

On topic whilst I think the idea is novel and kudos to the OP for the hardwork he/she put in (I'm assuming a he in this case), as the saying goes - There is no substitute for quality. I would use these for play testing but then again proxying is in someways just as easy if I already have models as is literally free. 

That being said I would play against this for a few games but each time I played it say over the course of a month I would expect to see less and less paper on the field as it went on, just as people who you play against regularly like to see a new army not painted come back more painted than it was each time they play it.
This not only gives more character to a game but helps encourage one another to develop hobby skills and hobby in general.


----------



## SGMAlice

Blue Liger said:


> Except he shouldn't have to know what that leet speak means as it's not meant to be on the site, it's in the rules!


:shok: OH NOEZ!!! What are the L337 Fanboi/girls gonna do now?!!

Note the sarcasm. IMHO if you can't speak proper english then you shouldn't speak at all
And no twisting my words, as you all know very well what i mean 

SGMAlice


----------



## Warlock in Training

Boobs is a bad word here? So what the hell were going to talk about when the next Daemonette Models come out. "Wow look how... lithe they are...":laugh:


----------



## The Boz

Use the word sboob.


----------



## SGMAlice

The Boz said:


> Use the word sboob.


Your not going to let that go are you?

Bloody men! 

SGMAlice


----------



## bitsandkits

i like boobs like my orks, real ! and green


----------



## Katie Drake

bitsandkits said:


> i like boobs like my orks, real ! and green


I like my salesmen honest but you don't see me telling everyone about it.


----------



## LTP

Katie Drake said:


> I like my salesmen honest but you don't see me telling everyone about it.


XD


I love this army. Its great. Good idea and lots of effort put in, if you don't want to play it then don't but don't knock the guy for building it. As long as his fellow gamers are happy with it then I don't see the problem . 

Oh and Boobs is never a bad word. :grin:


----------



## WarlordKaptainGrishnak

LTP said:


> Oh and Boobs is never a bad word. :grin:


But what of Bobss? Someone could be eager for some, and get all excited, then make a typo...

On topic, an interesting idea, that's about it. Not going to get involved in all this aye-ing and nay-ing however.

Grish


----------



## The Boz

SGMAlice said:


> Your not going to let that go are you?


It's pretty much my favorite word right now


----------



## shaantitus

Generally when I get hold of boobs(or sboob), letting them go is not at the top of my priority list. 
However there are two relevant things I would like to add. 

Firstly, despite gw's bad rep as the money hungry corporation, they created the rich game we have today. And I feel that supporting that is worthwhile. I have no issue with recycling other peoples models and the modern wonder that is ebay but it is still a game about models. The spectacle of well(or even my standard) models on a scenery rich tabletop is the premise on which the whole hobby was based. And I feel that that is compromised(at least in part) by this concept. Once again, ok for temp use, not ok in the long run.
Second, the comment about when 3d printing becomes viable in the home and running off hundreds of your own orks for nix. Personally if I found someone doing that I would let gw's legion of lawyers know. Couple of bits here and there ok. Whole armies= problem.


----------



## gally912

shaantitus said:


> Second, the comment about when 3d printing becomes viable in the home and running off hundreds of your own orks for nix. Personally if I found someone doing that I would let gw's legion of lawyers know. Couple of bits here and there ok. Whole armies= problem.


Except the fact that there is pretty much absolutely nothing legally wrong with that unless he is selling them as actual GW shop products. 

And really, GW has no control (and should have no control) over how people decide to use the rule-books people have bought. People can use GW models, FW models, chess pieces, pennies, or paper tubes- theres nothing that forces anybody to use miniatures at all. (And from a copyright standpoint, they shouldn't have shut vassal down either)


----------



## shaantitus

I think if gw did come across a fully 3d printed army of their IP they would have a go. And for those of you who were wondering i was referring to this comment.
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showpost.php?p=719372&postcount=94


----------



## Katie Drake

shaantitus said:


> I think if gw did come across a fully 3d printed army of their IP they would have a go.


Except printing off images of stuff on pieces of paper isn't illegal and that you'd try to get someone in legal trouble for it is really lame. Butthurt "fluff player" is butthurt.


----------



## gally912

Thing is, there is no legal ground to stand on when it comes to that, so it doesn't matter anyways. 

And aside from that, getting lawyers on somebody for not wanting to buy the same mini's as you to play a game is about as petty as you can get.

Just sayin'


----------



## bitsandkits

let the thread die people


----------



## Katie Drake

bitsandkits said:


> let the thread die people


Why? More downloads for the download god and all. Plus, some people might've missed it the first time around.


----------



## bishop5

Haha, that is freakin' sweet...


----------



## Quantrilltoy

I like the vehicles, and expecially the rocket. (I want one!)The card works fine for boxy vehicles. You could add spare kit bits too. I wouldn't be so happy with the figures though as they still look 2 dimensional. I thought the trucks were a better size than the 'real ones' as they look like you could fit more figures on them. I made many of my ork vehicles from cheap toys. For example, I have made battery powered tanks into battle wagons. I also bought a 20 cent second hand Bob the Builder vehicle and turned it into a battlewagon. I made a roller from part of a post roll and added tooth pick spikes. I think it looks cool and it is special because I made it from such humble origins. And it has character, as you would expect an ork vehicle to have. I used to have a couple of people scoff but I think they were either narrow minded or jealous that I had made them so cheaply. Others thought they looked impressive. My advice, if you want to do things cheaply is use your cut out vehicles and adapt some GW spare parts to combine with them but Buy some second hand orks to go with them. James


----------



## Kurrent

I would never play against a "tube" army. it is not wysiwyg by any means. wysisyg is the basis for all of warhammer. Also, unless you are somehow buying GW paper, you wouldn't be anywhere near table-top regulations. Build a monlith out of a necron Battle force box 100% a-ok imho, print out pics of ork boys and glue them to bases, hell no. You are a disgrace to the hobby at best... whats next painting the little plastic army men from the dollar store up as IG? You disgust me.


----------



## Katie Drake

Kurrent said:


> I would never play against a "tube" army. it is not wysiwyg by any means. wysisyg is the basis for all of warhammer. Also, unless you are somehow buying GW paper, you wouldn't be anywhere near table-top regulations. Build a monlith out of a necron Battle force box 100% a-ok imho, print out pics of ork boys and glue them to bases, hell no. You are a disgrace to the hobby at best... whats next painting the little plastic army men from the dollar store up as IG? You disgust me.


You disgust me more. Know why? Because somehow building a Monolith out of GW cardboard is better than using the same from a cereal box, according to this post.

=/


----------



## Aramoro

Kurrent said:


> I would never play against a "tube" army. it is not wysiwyg by any means. wysisyg is the basis for all of warhammer. Also, unless you are somehow buying GW paper, you wouldn't be anywhere near table-top regulations. Build a monlith out of a necron Battle force box 100% a-ok imho, print out pics of ork boys and glue them to bases, hell no. You are a disgrace to the hobby at best... whats next painting the little plastic army men from the dollar store up as IG? You disgust me.


Are you actually for real? 

Do you know who disgusts me? People who pray on the innocent and vulnerable, muggers, killers, rapists etc. They disgust me and offend my morals. 

People who play with toy soliders but play with pretend-pretend-imaginary spacemen? No not so much. Especially if you are playing with pretend-imaginary spacemen yourself. 

Aramoro


----------



## Jdwoogie

Kurrent said:


> whats next painting the little plastic army men from the dollar store up as IG?


actually... 

woog out!


----------



## Daniel Harper

People, calm down. I too disagree with what his done as others have but what he has done is perfectly legal and his choice. And frankly he can do what he wants with his army. But showing disgust towards him is beyond extreme. Can't we all just get along? :wink:


----------



## Kurrent

Katie Drake said:


> You disgust me more. Know why? Because somehow building a Monolith out of GW cardboard is better than using the same from a cereal box, according to this post.
> 
> =/


At least using GW carboard is using GW product, and if done right counts as being table top quality. How can he expect to play in a sanctioned tourney with a tube army? 

In addition the second he provided someone else with his schematics whether for currency or for free he has still distributed it, was his distribution of copyrighted images legal? I think not. Last time I knew GW owned the rights to all things warhammer 40k and their likenesses, hence the legality issue. Thus they would need to release the paper craft items for public use and distribution before he could "jump the gun" and put out his own knock offs for public use and further more, possibly such items could be sold thus infringing GW copyrights and trademarks further.


----------



## Unforgiven302

*this horse is DEAD!!!*



























(I think you get my point on this subject...)


----------



## bitsandkits

Unforgiven302 said:


> (I think you get my point on this subject...)


are you sure they are all horses? they look alot like......


----------



## Masked Jackal

Kurrent said:


> At least using GW carboard is using GW product, and if done right counts as being table top quality. How can he expect to play in a sanctioned tourney with a tube army?


Tourneys generally bring out rules-lawyers and fucktards. It's not a surprise if he doesn't want to use these in a tourney.

As for the other part of your post, I'm not even going to touch that.


----------



## Unforgiven302

bitsandkits said:


> are you sure they are all horses? they look alot like......


Shrek Donkey says, "They all horses... I approves."


----------



## Jdwoogie

Unforgiven302 said:


> (I think you get my point on this subject...)


best post ever....

woog out!


----------



## Chaosftw

Sure, ill play that army. 2 conditions. 1. Outdoors and 2. In the rain.

and ANYWHERE where GW product is sold I can guarantee you that the store managers/owner tournament runners etc. will just laugh at you. you brought cheap to a whole new level. If you like the game and you enjoy playing with others get a job, save some money, and buy a proper army. I am all for proxy, conversions, crazy lego models, among numerous other things I have seen. But shiiit there is a line you need to draw. Sir you passed that line about 36' ago when you deployed that sorry excuse for an army in your 12' deployment zone.

On a positive note I think your vehicles are kind of neat. Perhaps using plasticard and generating something a little more to scale and u may have a start to something there. I mean people make models out of plastic card all the time.

Chaosftw


----------



## gally912

I'm surprised there are some people who did not make the necessary logic jump that said "hey, he probably doesnt play in GW-sponsored tournaments, nor attempt to"

As a side note, and I'm actually going to get a little angry here, when the hell did this hobby get so big that anyone in their right minds shoots down a player because he wants to use proxys? You must have hundreds players with fully painted *official* plastic men that line up to play against your also immaculately detailed fully painted plastic men, amirite? 

Disgrace to the hobby? Feh. With your kind of attitude, I wouldn't play against you if you had solid gold plated space marines crafted by Michael-fuckin-angello.


----------



## Aramoro

I do think people often forget they're playing with toy solider. But I guess spacemen are Serious Business and we all need to remember that.

its not about fun or having a laugh. its about how much youve spent in gw.

Aramoro


----------



## Katie Drake

gally912 said:


> I'm surprised there are some people who did not make the necessary logic jump that said "hey, he probably doesnt play in GW-sponsored tournaments, nor attempt to"
> 
> As a side note, and I'm actually going to get a little angry here, when the hell did this hobby get so big that anyone in their right minds shoots down a player because he wants to use proxys? You must have hundreds players with fully painted *official* plastic men that line up to play against your also immaculately detailed fully painted plastic men, amirite?
> 
> Disgrace to the hobby? Feh. With your kind of attitude, I wouldn't play against you if you had solid gold plated space marines crafted by Michael-fuckin-angello.


+1. I heart this post.


----------



## Chaosftw

gally912 said:


> I'm surprised there are some people who did not make the necessary logic jump that said "hey, he probably doesnt play in GW-sponsored tournaments, nor attempt to"
> 
> Who would run a Warhammer 40k tournament and allow people to enter with out 40k models? tournament supporters would not allow it and I cant imagine the tournament supervisors would ether. Who would pay to enter a tournament to play against paper and ink?
> 
> As a side note, and I'm actually going to get a little angry here, when the hell did this hobby get so big that anyone in their right minds shoots down a player because he wants to use proxys? You must have hundreds players with fully painted *official* plastic men that line up to play against your also immaculately detailed fully painted plastic men, amirite?
> 
> Proxying in the eyes of most is using a model to represent another model for a short period of time to play test or until they buy it or something else off that nature. using a full paper army with no intent to get the models but purely to cheat the business is no longer proxying.
> 
> Disgrace to the hobby? Feh. With your kind of attitude, I wouldn't play against you if you had solid gold plated space marines crafted by Michael-fuckin-angello.
> 
> Dont play against us then. As supporters of the business and the hobby for ALL its aspects we have a right to voice our disgust for something like this.


Here are a couple of things for you to 'chew on':

1. How do u fee when you see someone with paper be allowed into a tournament when you know you paid for models, payed for conversions, payed for paint, paid with time and then payed to show up and game. When all you had to do is draw with a black marker on some paper and save 50% of the cost. Does that not bother you a little. (P.S. this is not directed at the individual it is just a generalization and hypothetical for the sake of argument)

2. (**IMPORTANT**) *IT IS PEOPLE LIKE HIM THAT CHEAT THE BUSINESS THAT CAUSE PRICES TO GO UP FOR THE HONEST PLAYERS. (not the entire reason but certainly a part of the problem and not the solution.)

Cheers,
Chaosftw*


----------



## Katie Drake

Chaosftw said:


> 1. How do u fee when you see someone with paper be allowed into a tournament when you know you paid for models, payed for conversions, payed for paint, paid with time and then payed to show up and game. When all you had to do is draw with a black marker on some paper and save 50% of the cost. Does that not bother you a little. (P.S. this is not directed at the individual it is just a generalization and hypothetical for the sake of argument)


Except he's flat out said multiple times that he only plays with his friends. Do you _really_ think any sort of tournament is going to allow paper tube models?

People, think. Please. >_<


----------



## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

Wow, this is rediculous, its hilarious how this guy is argueing with the "haters". If you tried to play me with that shit I would just laugh. Its idiotic. If more were like you, the prices would be raised even more. And to all of you who love to point out their basically dolls. Damn right. They are my 2000$ dollar doll collection your fucking right I'll take it seriously.


----------



## ROT

Calm down Chaos; They're just Paper models :laugh:

And lol, That green text was seriously damaging, Change that if you want people to take you seriously.
-But then again; With your point, who will :laugh:

Good work :drinks:


On a more interesting side of this thread; +Rep for those models :laugh: Good for you 'pal. They look hilariously brilliant :laugh:

As always, ROT:drinks:


----------



## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

So ROT, why dont you make a paper army, and take it in! Take some pics, post a batt-rep or two, let us know how it goes!


----------



## bitsandkits

Katie Drake said:


> Except he's flat out said multiple times that he only plays with his friends. Do you _really_ think any sort of tournament is going to allow paper tube models?
> 
> People, think. Please. >_<


Yes and only friends would allow someone to get away with it and even then its more likely they are humouring him so they get a game, even if it means its a game against paper tubes. 

Yes this hobby should be about having fun, but i feel that someone playing with paper orks is quite likely to be having fun at the expense of the other players fun. We are talking about a "miniature wargame" so by its definition is a game of war using miniatures, I cant see a reason for defending someone's obviously selfish choice to want to be part of a miniature wargame hobby but not use miniatures,I dont care how he got the models, or how much he paid, or even if they are GW models or even if they are painted(he didnt even use colour ink on the tube orks!!!!), but the minimum you would have to expect is for a player to show up to a game with an army of miniatures??


----------



## Chaosftw

ROT said:


> Calm down Chaos; They're just Paper models :laugh:
> 
> And lol, That green text was seriously damaging, Change that if you want people to take you seriously.
> -But then again; With your point, who will :laugh:
> 
> Good work :drinks:
> 
> 
> On a more interesting side of this thread; +Rep for those models :laugh: Good for you 'pal. They look hilariously brilliant :laugh:
> 
> As always, ROT:drinks:


Who said I was angry? Im just pointing things out and instead of just tossing out random babble I am using significant points.

Please oh great one, explain to me how my points are invalid to this discussion?

If anything your post is the joke here nothing relevant to say. You try and attack my font colour... *yawn*, Then you attempt to attack my points... but oh wait... nothing to back up the comment. 

great work ROT, your a winner. 

Im excited to hear what you have to say next, maybe no text this time just smiley faces to really show off your I.Q.

Chaosftw


----------



## Katie Drake

bitsandkits said:


> Yes and only friends would allow someone to get away with it and even then its more likely they are humouring him so they get a game, even if it means its a game against paper tubes.


If it really takes away from his friend's fun so much, then they'd stop playing him.

As for the whole "but this is a miniatures game!" thing, I agree. It's a miniatures game. But if people are happy playing with paper tubes, then who gives a shit? Unless you're playing against his Paper Waaagh! personally then there's no reason to complain.

Live and let live.


----------



## Chaosftw

Katie Drake said:


> If it really takes away from his friend's fun so much, then they'd stop playing him.
> 
> As for the whole "but this is a miniatures game!" thing, I agree. It's a miniatures game. But if people are happy playing with paper tubes, then who gives a shit? Unless you're playing against his Paper Waaagh! personally then there's no reason to complain.
> 
> Live and let live.


I think this topic has moved from a personal thing on that individual but more of a generalization to all who use things other then the minatures to play the game.


----------



## SGMAlice

This is back up top i see XD

It would be interesting to know what the OP is up to now regarding this subject. Does he still use them or has he bought some mini's e.t.c.
Does he even come here anymore!?

SGMAlice


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

I doubt he bought some minis. He said many times he has no intention too. Not for lack of many, for lack of commitment to the hobby, or whatever else you want to say. 

That seems like the biggest problem, its just a lack of respect for the hobby, and to some degree, the people you are playing with or against.


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## TheAbominableDan

I can only speak for myself when it comes to this. I would not be happy facing this army. I work slowly but I work on my army. I put in time, money and effort to purchase, build and paint an army I'm proud of. There were some points in the discussion where the original poster seemed to imply that he was smarter for having done this and not spending money. That I disapprove of. This is my hobby and I enjoy it. If I want to spend my money and time doing this who is he to tell me it's wrong?

Now that's just me. If his friends have no trouble playing this then what do I care? I'm not in this group. He made a choice and it doesn't effect me in the least. He weighed the cost against the ability to play in tournaments and in the store and he made his choice. It's not the one I would have made, but oh well.


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## bitsandkits

Katie Drake said:


> If it really takes away from his friend's fun so much, then they'd stop playing him.
> 
> As for the whole "but this is a miniatures game!" thing, I agree. It's a miniatures game. But if people are happy playing with paper tubes, then who gives a shit? Unless you're playing against his Paper Waaagh! personally then there's no reason to complain.
> 
> Live and let live.


I agree with your live and let live sentiment, what he does with his buddies is his own business, but he came here to share his idea with the forum and was very unashamedly proud of his cheapness and by doing so he has popped his head above the parapet, so he has to be prepared for people to say "hang on a minute i dont like that because xyz" 

Yes live and let live, but this type of thing is worse in my opinion than a PDF codex from pirate bay, 40K is a social game and playing with friends at a friends home or a club is like entering a contract, by agreeing to play 40k with your friends you are also agreeing to field an army of miniatures, hell thats why you get two different sets in the box, tournaments and GW shops aside you still need to put a "fit for purpose" 3d physical representation on the board to play and an ork boy is not a cylinder and with true line of sight the tubes wouldnt be fit for purpose. 

If he couldnt afford to play, i would understand, if they were a stop gap, i would understand, if he genuinely was interested in paper modeling and scratch building, i would understand the vehicles, if he was testing out he ork army, i would understand,if he needed several hundred ork boys for an odd apocalypse game, i would understand it at a stretch, But for the love of Mork and Gork dont try and pass off paper tubes for an army to people who have spent thousands of pounds and countless hours building and painting miniatures.


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## bitsandkits

SGMAlice said:


> This is back up top i see XD
> 
> It would be interesting to know what the OP is up to now regarding this subject. Does he still use them or has he bought some mini's e.t.c.
> Does he even come here anymore!?
> 
> SGMAlice


he hasnt been back for about a month,maybe hes writing down his posts on paper and blue tacking them to his monitor


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## OrkByTheGraceOfGork

bitsandkits said:


> Yes live and let live, but this type of thing is worse in my opinion than a PDF codex from pirate bay,...


What's wrong with a PDF codex?

OBGOG


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## Quantrilltoy

I would love to have that paper rocket; it looks cool. The battle wagons are nicely boxy and you could put spare weapons on them. The trucks don't look like the current ork truccks but the current ork trucks don't look like the earlier model trucks either. Actually, these paper trucks, are in some ways better, because you could probably fit all your unit on them. I must admit that I's draw the line at the paper orks though; they still look 3 dimensionsl. Many of my ork vehicles have been made from secondnand children's toys - battery operated tanks, macdonald's toys and a Bob the Builder vehicle with added roller from card tube and toothpick spikes. I have even made killer cans from toy robots and even made a war boss from a toy robot and putty head. They all look awesome and I've had compliments on them. But some have winged about them as not being GW models. My theory is they did so because, they lacked creativity, were narrow minded or were jealous because i did things so cheaply. And yet these same people had used unpainted GW models in games and sometimes even just the bases! So, using an original approach does not disgust me but narrow thinking does. Yes, the 'look' of the game is important but we can be flexible. James


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## bitsandkits

Quantrilltoy said:


> I would love to have that paper rocket; it looks cool. The battle wagons are nicely boxy and you could put spare weapons on them. The trucks don't look like the current ork truccks but the current ork trucks don't look like the earlier model trucks either. Actually, these paper trucks, are in some ways better, because you could probably fit all your unit on them. I must admit that I's draw the line at the paper orks though; they still look 3 dimensionsl. Many of my ork vehicles have been made from secondnand children's toys - battery operated tanks, macdonald's toys and a Bob the Builder vehicle with added roller from card tube and toothpick spikes. I have even made killer cans from toy robots and even made a war boss from a toy robot and putty head. They all look awesome and I've had compliments on them. But some have winged about them as not being GW models. My theory is they did so because, they lacked creativity, were narrow minded or were jealous because i did things so cheaply. And yet these same people had used unpainted GW models in games and sometimes even just the bases! So, using an original approach does not disgust me but narrow thinking does. Yes, the 'look' of the game is important but we can be flexible. James


And thats admirable James, in essence taking toys and converting them is what Orks are all about, the looting aspect is one of the best features of the Ork culture and anyone who wants to save money by doing so should be commended, But that isnt what this was all about, this was more about the OP saying " im gonna play the game but i aint spending a bean on the hobby, but my game pieces wont bit fit for the job either, also im bloody clever for doing it too"


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## bitsandkits

OrkByTheGraceOfGork said:


> What's wrong with a PDF codex?
> 
> OBGOG


nothing, as long as it was free to download from an official GW source


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## SGMAlice

bitsandkits said:


> ...this was more about the OP saying " im gonna play the game but i aint spending a bean on the hobby, but my game pieces wont bit fit for the job either, also im bloody clever for doing it too"....


Yeah, he did go a little far with that, even in my opinion and i'm usually pretty generous with my leeway on such things.

SGMAlice


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## gally912

Chaosftw said:


> Here are a couple of things for you to 'chew on':
> 
> 1. How do u fee when you see someone with paper be allowed into a tournament when you know you paid for models, payed for conversions, payed for paint, paid with time and then payed to show up and game. When all you had to do is draw with a black marker on some paper and save 50% of the cost. Does that not bother you a little. (P.S. this is not directed at the individual it is just a generalization and hypothetical for the sake of argument)


I'd again like to reiterate that this has nothing to do with tournaments of any kind, or about money being spent. It's about one group of players that thinks the way they play the game is the only right way to play.

This sentiment is WRONG.



> 2. (**IMPORTANT**) *IT IS PEOPLE LIKE HIM THAT CHEAT THE BUSINESS THAT CAUSE PRICES TO GO UP FOR THE HONEST PLAYERS. (not the entire reason but certainly a part of the problem and not the solution.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Chaosftw*


See, economics says that if more players were like him, e.g. people who dont want to spend for overpriced plastic men, than GW would actually have to drive prices down if they wanted to stay in business. GW LOVES your mentality because it means they can charge whatever the hell they want- you'll pay for it because, hey, the only real way to play is with proper miniatures, amirite?


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

You are right. that is the only real way to play. Minitures wargame. Not grab random shit and call them models.


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## bitsandkits

gally912 said:


> [/color]
> 
> See, economics says that if more players were like him, e.g. people who dont want to spend for overpriced plastic men, than GW would actually have to drive prices down if they wanted to stay in business. GW LOVES your mentality because it means they can charge whatever the hell they want- you'll pay for it because, hey, the only real way to play is with proper miniatures, amirite?


Actually what your talking about works in some cases, but in others its perfectly acceptable to sell to fewer people at a higher price to maintain your business, this is particularly true in niche markets, GW could reduce the prices but that would not make middle aged house wives and loads of other demographics suddenly start buying GW products, If GW reduced its prices tommorow by 25% you would spend less, they would make less buy its would be unlikely that you would spend any more money that you had already decided to.

Example your army list needs 2 terminator squads, GW reduce the prices by 25% would you buy 3 squads ? or 2 and keep the saving or buy the 2 and spend the 25% saving on another product you dont need ? the answer is likely all three ,some would buy 3 squads,some would buy two and keep the saving and some would spend up to the budget they had in mind,and the reality of that is GW would not make any more money and most likely would loose money. 

And yes miniatures should be used to play miniature based wargames


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## Chaosftw

gally912 said:


> [/color]
> 
> I'd again like to reiterate that this has nothing to do with tournaments of any kind, or about money being spent. It's about one group of players that thinks the way they play the game is the only right way to play.
> 
> This sentiment is WRONG.
> 
> 
> 
> See, economics says that if more players were like him, e.g. people who dont want to spend for overpriced plastic men, than GW would actually have to drive prices down if they wanted to stay in business. GW LOVES your mentality because it means they can charge whatever the hell they want- you'll pay for it because, hey, the only real way to play is with proper miniatures, amirite?


you know... I did say right at the bottom..


> (P.S. this is not directed at the individual it is just a generalization and hypothetical for the sake of argument)


and as for point 2, well.... you have got half of the concept of economics down to a science. What about the other half? Bits and Kits spelt it out for you.

Also have you ever heard of the "Domino Effect"? well the more people that accept this way of thinking the more that will or consider doing it. Then it will grow.. (again most likely wont but for the sake of argument)

Chaosftw


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## Quantrilltoy

Reading the tone and language employed by a number of negative responses I wonder if those replying would speak in the same way in person, or would it depend how big the bloke was? Are some people spending so much time on a computer that they don't know the niceties of proper communication and good manners? frankly a novel idea was presented, helpful to many. I would include some of the paper models if I needed to but would be reluctant to play against the tube orks, just as I don't like playing against unpainted figures but do so to get a game in. But those who want to use them feel free. And since when was saving money a sin? I buy new models when I want them but also second hand ones from flea markets and ebay. I have made models that looked great from cheap toys and cost me less than a dollar. And although most of my ork army is GW it includes at least 4 different series and other manufacturers. james


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

A big sign your struggling for a worthwhile response, trying to make us look like internet tough guys. I for one would do exctly what I said. Laugh at that bullshit. And walk away. You think I give a shit? What is he going to do? Law enforcement is there for a reason.

Not to mention as was already mentioned, it has not so much to do with saving money, as with the general disregard for the hobby, and he thinks that doing so somehow sets him higher than the rest of us who support our hobbies, because hes a cheap bastard?


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## bitsandkits

Quantrilltoy said:


> Reading the tone and language employed by a number of negative responses I wonder if those replying would speak in the same way in person, or would it depend how big the bloke was? Are some people spending so much time on a computer that they don't know the niceties of proper communication and good manners? frankly a novel idea was presented, helpful to many. I would include some of the paper models if I needed to but would be reluctant to play against the tube orks, just as I don't like playing against unpainted figures but do so to get a game in. But those who want to use them feel free. And since when was saving money a sin? I buy new models when I want them but also second hand ones from flea markets and ebay. I have made models that looked great from cheap toys and cost me less than a dollar. And although most of my ork army is GW it includes at least 4 different series and other manufacturers. james


You seem to have taken this thread very personally, again it isnt about saving money, i would be the first person to congratulate anyone who had come up with a genuine method to save money on this hobby, i relish saving money, i get a genuine happy when i save money on something i want or need, But "saving money" can only be really be claimed if what you have at the end of it is fit for purpose and personally i dont think a paper cylinder ork is a suitable representation of a Ork for a game of 40k ,again saving money isnt a sin.


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## ShadowMatt

*Take that stick out of your arse*



bitsandkits said:


> you can try to justify them all you want but at the end of the day you have produced them because you either cant afford or dont want to pay for the actual models, which on this kinda level just defeats being involved in the hobbyQUOTE]
> 
> B&K you are beginning to sound like a game nazi. "Oh I spent $1000 on my army so you should have to as well. What's that, you can't afford to spend $1000 on toy soldiers? Too bad, you're not allowed to play."
> Small minded people defeats being involved in the hobby more than 'counts as' models.


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## SGMAlice

@ShadowMatt: Not being able to afford it is one thing, but intentionally not buying them and saying that you never will, then acting like we are stupid for doing it is another all together.
I hope you read the entire thread otherwise your going to look rather stupid for what you just said my friend.

SGMAlice


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## hippypancake

wow...I must say this escalated like hell from the last time I was on...When I was here people were actually talking about the tube orks not about what they represent in today's economy.

I think I'm going to say that this escalated almost as bad as WW1...and that was bad


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## SGMAlice

It should have stayed dead really.

Oh well

SGMAlice


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## hippypancake

SGMAlice said:


> It should have stayed dead really.
> 
> Oh well
> 
> SGMAlice


We finally agree Alice xD


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## SGMAlice

Finally?! I don't recall that we have ever disagreed. Ah well never mind

SGMAlice


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## hippypancake

SGMAlice said:


> Finally?! I don't recall that we have ever disagreed. Ah well never mind
> 
> SGMAlice


of course we do we're doing it right now xD


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## Tzeen Qhayshek

I would play him if I got to smash his paper orks every time I killed one.


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## Chaosftw

Tzeen Qhayshek said:


> I would play him if I got to smash his paper orks every time I killed one.


LMAO Can I use a lighter as flamers?


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## ArchangelPaladin

> I would play him if I got to smash his paper orks every time I killed one.





> LMAO Can I use a lighter as flamers?


I was gona stay out of this, but now that would be cool once or twice. Get together with your mate spend the 15 minutes to print and tape your tube men, then play on a surface you don’t mind messing up and then be absolutely brutal with each others models: tear um to shreds as you kill them burn vehicles to the ground, you could even add some fire works like use a black cat for a small blast and a M80 for a large blast. Of course this goes with out saying but: *Adult supervision required.* 

And also people should be penalized(negative rep if not temp bans) for resurrecting threads from a year ago.


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## humakt

There is no rule against threadomancy on Heresy. As long as something useful is being said any thread can be returned from the depths. Play nice people


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## Whizzwang

humakt said:


> There is no rule against threadomancy on Heresy.


but.. but... then I don't get to play with Heinrich.


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## gally912

ArchangelPaladin said:


> And also people should be penalized(negative rep if not temp bans) for resurrecting threads from a year ago.


But... this thread is less than a month old?


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## ArchangelPaladin

> But... this thread is less than a month old?


I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, so forgive me if you are; Timestamp on op is 1/9/10, although now I’m confused because it also says he joined in September 2010… either way old threads full of nothing by flaming should stay buried.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

oh share more of your awesome wisdom. And how is that confusing..? that means he both joined and posted september first.


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## Jdwoogie

ArchangelPaladin said:


> I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, so forgive me if you are; Timestamp on op is 1/9/10, although now I’m confused because it also says he joined in September 2010… either way old threads full of nothing by flaming should stay buried.


you were confused by their silly U.K date presentation. They do Day/Month/Year. Not the Month/Day/Year that we are accustom to.

it's ok. i was thrown by it as well.

woog out!


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## Unforgiven302

ArchangelPaladin said:


> I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, so forgive me if you are; Timestamp on op is 1/9/10, although now I’m confused because it also says he joined in September 2010… either way old threads full of nothing by flaming should stay buried.


The time/date stamp on Heresy is in European. The first number is the day followed by the Month then the year.

So 1/9/10 is September 1, 2010. (Why the rest of the world doesn't do it like this is beyond me as it makes far more sense.)

EDIT: I have been Wooged...


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

Canada does


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## Unforgiven302

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> Canada does


I guess Canadians can be proud of something then...


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

Ouch!


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## bitsandkits

Unforgiven302 said:


> The time/date stamp on Heresy is in European. The first number is the day followed by the Month then the year.
> 
> So 1/9/10 is September 1, 2010. (Why the rest of the world doesn't do it like this is beyond me as it makes far more sense.)
> 
> EDIT: I have been Wooged...


actually the rest of the world does apart from the USA and China though i have to admit China uses year/month/day format and has a history of using its own calendar so was to be expected,Cant really understand why the USA has to be different to everyone else, feels a bit like the French insisting on having everything translated into French on the international stage rather than learning English like the rest of the world has.


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## gally912

Well, if you accept that the way to write out the date long hand is:
September 1st, 2010 

then shorthanding the date without moving placements becomes:
9/1/10

I suspect it comes from a time before literacy was the standard and people used what was regional to them.

@ArchangelPaladin

Of course you are right. You'll also notice the forum conspiracy for this thread, cause if you notice the time-stamps on any of the other posts, you'll notice that we all only post in this thread on the 9th Day of Every Month. Tradition, you see.


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## Unforgiven302

bitsandkits said:


> Cant really understand why the USA has to be different to everyone else


You see, there are three ways to do things:

1) The right way.

2) The wrong way.

3) _*THE AMERICAN WAY!!!!*_

(Sometimes you can exchange number 1 with number 3. But number 3 is never ever to be confused with being number 2, just on rare occasions it is seen as being that way... but then people who see it that way would be wrong... :biggrin


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## bitsandkits

gally912 said:


> Well, if you accept that the way to write out the date long hand is:
> September 1st, 2010
> 
> then shorthanding the date without moving placements becomes:
> 9/1/10
> 
> I suspect it comes from a time before literacy was the standard and people used what was regional to them.


the long hand way to write the date is 1st September 2010 which in real terms is how mathmatically correct eg 1s/10s/100s etc so a "day" is a unit of a "month" and a month is a unit of a "year"


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## countchocula86

This thread needs to die a horrible death, and be sealed with various warnings to ward off necromancers.


Who am I kidding, what self respecting necromancer heeds warnings.


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## Jdwoogie

bitsandkits said:


> the long hand way to write the date is 1st September 2010 which in real terms is how mathmatically correct eg 1s/10s/100s etc so a "day" is a unit of a "month" and a month is a unit of a "year"


That's a bit queer if you ask me. If you read that it says it's the first september of the year 2010. If you do it the other way September 1st, 2010 it makes much more logical sense.

woog out!


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## Aramoro

No the thread should never die. 

I find the paper hammer stuff really interesting. I've got all the templates now and looking at them for making wrecked vehicle terrain. For that kinda of thing it's really handy 

Check out this thread on dakka ( I know it's burns some peoples skin to look upon that forum but try)

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/287475.page

Really good work there at a fraction of the price really. 

Aramoro


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## tu_shan82

bitsandkits said:


> the long hand way to write the date is 1st September 2010 which in real terms is how mathmatically correct eg 1s/10s/100s etc so a "day" is a unit of a "month" and a month is a unit of a "year"



Which is the correct way to write the date, unless your an American, in which case you do it the other way round, confusing the shit out of people from other countries.


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## jondoe297

Woah this spiralled out of control quite rapidly! I must say it has been a lengthy but amusing read! 
So to throw my hat into the belated ring!
I think the tube orks are the crappiest thing I have ever seen, very little imigination or creativity, the trucks etc thats slightly different but looking at other models made out of paper they are pretty substandard!
To be honest I think its a bit of joke, I would play once out of politeness and then avoid after that, may seem snobby but seriously how lame!! I'm embarrased when I dont run a fully painted army (undercoated at least)
The fact remains people spend hours of the time and money and is belittled by this paper poxying (yer I misspelled on purpose) 
There is a element of each to your own but seriously where is the line drawn, someone made a comparison about 'supporting' a band but never buying any of their music . . . that really winds me up! You gotta support the company to keep it going stong! 
People have 'attacked' people on hear for voicing their opinion I believe a nazi comparison was put forward . . . bit extreme, unrealistic and pathetic!
Aesthetically the fact remains bits of paper don't stand up to 'proper' minitures! and IMO thats the actual core of this thread "not you're poor you cant play" and other things banded around! 
I think thats me ranted out, oh no, wait! the date should only be displayed one way (read right way) and thats day month year!
Happy gaming (with toy dolls  )


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## Itybih2ku

Wow....
Been a while. I figured the thread had died a while ago. Last I remember was talk about boobs.

I would like to say thanks to all of those out there keeping this thread alive so that the link to the Paper Waagh stays alive.

Also, I NEVER said, NOR implied that anyone who bought the GW's stuff were dumb, or that I was smarter than them. (Cheaper YES!, but smarter, no.) I've never claimed that what I do is really what anyone else should do. However, I have no problem sharing what i've done for anyone else who wants to use it.

Work has kept me busy this last month, and I've only had about 2 days off since this thread had died. 

I've since spent a little bit of money on WHFB, and am now at the point where I will probably start proxying up the rest of the Skaven army that I have.

For the haters, you'll be happy to know that I've bought 1 Island of blood set, traded my high elves for a second island of blood skaven army, purchased one box of night runners, and the Skaven battalion box set. I'm currently working on paper versions of the Screaming Bell, Plague Furnace, Doom Wheel etc.

I need to get some decent measurements, and then i'll work on Boxing up the rest of the skaven army.

Until then, keep the paper waagh alive. 172 downloads of the various files. Keep em rolling!


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## TheAbominableDan

Itybih2ku said:


> To put it another way, If someone accidentally breaks your battle wagon you are out 60 bucks, + Construction and painting time.
> 
> I'm out 6 sheets of paper, and about 2 hours of work.


This post struck me as implying that you thought you were smarter for doing it your way.


----------



## humakt

I'd be interested to know what was the main download Itybih2ku.

Is it the vehicles or the ork roll infantry? This is totally out of curiosity as that isnt a bad number of downloads.


----------



## Itybih2ku

TheAbominableDan said:


> This post struck me as implying that you thought you were smarter for doing it your way.


At that point I was a little snippy since people had all but called me the son of satan for doing what I was doing... I don't really care all that much, but even in a flame retardant suit, it got a little warm from some people's hate.





humakt said:


> I'd be interested to know what was the main download Itybih2ku.
> 
> Is it the vehicles or the ork roll infantry? This is totally out of curiosity as that isnt a bad number of downloads.


The biggest download has been battlewagons by far. 61 downloads for those. The Tube Boys came in a close second with about 53 downloads. My guess is that the battle wagons are up there because its cheaper by far than the 60/wagon. The tubes make very decent proxies for anyone who wants to use them.

(I wouldn't be surprised if some of those downloads are from the haters, but they refuse to admit it.)

And for anyone who wants to point it out. The 172 is a total number of downloads of the various files.


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## JeroenFM

Well I suppose that if this works for you and the people you play with then more power to you. Personally, I wouldn't get any satisfaction from playing with (or against) paper mockups, mostly because it ruins the suspension of disbelief (same goes for bad terrain by the way).

I've actually played a game with paper mockups once, to introduce a co-worker to 40K when I didn't have the miniatures handy. It was not anywhere near satisfying compared to a game with fully painted miniatures.


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## Jdwoogie

Itybih2ku said:


> And for anyone who wants to point it out. The 172 is a total number of downloads of the various files.


You'd probably have a hell of a lot more downloads if your download hosting site wasn't so damned annoying to use! :ireful2:

woog out!


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## Itybih2ku

Jdwoogie said:


> You'd probably have a hell of a lot more downloads if your download hosting site wasn't so damned annoying to use! :ireful2:
> 
> woog out!


I've not tried to download from it so I'm completely unaware of any such problems....  

I'll see if there's anything I can do.

Edit: I'm not sure what the annoyance is. However, I have added a ZIP file to the downloads section so that you can download all of it at once. I originally put them up separately so that people could grab only what they wanted, and I could add new files as needed.


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## Jdwoogie

it was a while that i tried, i can't remember what specifically annoyed me but i remember thinking... this is a pain in the ass.

woog out!


----------

