# The Term "Noobslayer" Clarification please?



## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

So im more than a bit confused by the sudden use of of the term "noobslayer" I have gathered it is somone who takes a list that isnt actually "good" (competitively speaking) owns some people at his FLGS, then gets owned in turn by a list that is actually "good" So..does this mean that everyone has at some point been a noobslayer? I think you can see my confusion..


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

Noobslayer isnt just beating up on beginners or bad lists. A noobslayer is a list that does very very well against beginners but falls apart against competitive players with actually solid armies. But because it does well against beginner level players it gains a reputation as good. Horde orks is a great example of this. 

Keep in mind though that the list is effective only against beginners. My loganwing is effective against most everyone, so its not a noobslayer. Horde orks fall apart against players who know their stuff, but they beat up noobs so have a reputation as a good army. Which is the second important point, the army has to have a reputation as good when it isnt good.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

Except that Horde Orks are effective and competitive if used correctly.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

No they arent, please refer to the thread on this for more information.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

Because you are the definitive voice on what is effective?


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

No, because reason is. Please go to that thread and state why orks are a competitive, along with refuting the many many arguments as to why they arent.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

A link would help, there are a lot of Ork articles.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79678


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

I'll back Midge up; Ork horde armies can of course be competitive if you know how to use them. 

I have never encountered the term noobslayer; but then again I only play people I like.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Everywhere I've gamed, it's the term for those egotistical freaks who knowingly take their optimised, stomp in the teeth lists against someone with fewer than 10 games under their belt.
Just to "show them how it's done".
Then they say they "forgot that you're new".


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

vrykolas2k brings up a good point. Its also used for players. We used to have a pair at my lgs who would play crappy spam armies (6 pred blood angels in 1500) against beginners or people they knew they would beat. Afterwords they would brag about it. If you beat them though they just refused to play you again and cried about it. Since my store became more competitive they quit showing up.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

I can concede some of the points in that thread. That being said it is still up to your own experiences. Orks are still a very effective army if played right, and I think that the blanket statement that they are uncompetitive is unwarranted. There are a couple of guys at my FLGS that are very good Ork players and manage to win a fair amount of games. Just because you have found a good way to counter Orks, and more specifically the Ork players that you usually play, doesn't mean that the army is shit on the competitive scale.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

The people in that thread who were arguing those points, and people all over who have argued them, are from all over the world. We have an American, an Englishman, a Danish(?) guy all arguing the same points. Who are the good ork players at your lgs and what do they play ork wise.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

Well unfortunately none of them are members of Heresy as far as I know, two of them play horde and one plays mech. Now do they stomp other players into the ground all to the time.... no. But that is not the definition of competitive in my opinion. Who wants a list that wins every time no matter what? How would that be enjoyable for everyone involved. 

I think that we have strayed away from the central topic of this particular thread, and even away from the issue of the Orks and thier competitiveness, into a discussion regarding what is competitive and what is not. I think D-A-C has a thread dedicated to that so I would be more than willing to take this discussion over there.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

You dont personally play orks do you?

Who are these ork players? I know theres John Wright with horde orks, Kevin Kirby with wagon, and guy with a fohawk (brandon?) who plays horde.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

Yes I have played Orks, and I have a small force of about 1500 points mech, that has done ok. But no they are not my main army. 

I am not sure who these guys are that you are talking about, and I am not sure how listing their names will give more credancy to one side or another, as I don't live in Russia, as your flag choice indicates you do, I am pretty sure that we don't know any of the same people.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Why do you act like such a dick towards someone who has a differing opinion to yours?

Any army can be used to devastating effect with the right strategist behind it. First rule of war is to make best of what you have got. Not bitch and whine to get the best possible outfit. So yes I too think Ork horde can be effective. Mainly because flood the table with enough Orks and those vehicles that apparently are hard to destroy only have soo much room to run around in. Its called cagin and a good horde player will use it to good effect.

My opinions. They differ from yours Chuggindathaterade. What ya gonna do about it?


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

Stephen_Newman said:


> Why do you act like such a dick towards someone who has a differing opinion to yours?
> 
> Any army can be used to devastating effect with the right strategist behind it. First rule of war is to make best of what you have got. Not bitch and whine to get the best possible outfit. So yes I too think Ork horde can be effective. Mainly because flood the table with enough Orks and those vehicles that apparently are hard to destroy only have soo much room to run around in. Its called cagin and a good horde player will use it to good effect.
> 
> My opinions. They differ from yours Chuggindathaterade. What ya gonna do about it?


:goodpost: It must be an age thing. I was secure in the knowledge that I knew better than everybody else when I was 12. I am no trying to disuade you from friendly discussion Chug, but is does get kind of old when you start getting all defensive when someone has an opinion that is different from yours.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

Stephen_Newman said:


> Why do you act like such a dick towards someone who has a differing opinion to yours?
> 
> Any army can be used to devastating effect with the right strategist behind it. First rule of war is to make best of what you have got. Not bitch and whine to get the best possible outfit. So yes I too think Ork horde can be effective. Mainly because flood the table with enough Orks and those vehicles that apparently are hard to destroy only have soo much room to run around in. Its called cagin and a good horde player will use it to good effect.
> 
> My opinions. They differ from yours Chuggindathaterade. What ya gonna do about it?


The hell are you talking about Newman? Nobody is acting like a dick. You can debate people without disliking them. I dont actually live in Russia, I live in Dayton. Nor am I 12. And I am not getting defensive. Defensive would be trying to back out of an argument, instead of promoting debate. I figured most everyone knew that. So I think I might actually know the ork players that midge is talking about.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

I don't understand why you would say your 12 when you are not...Doesn't make sense.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Chug does not live in Russia, nor is he 12.

:laugh:

I agree with his posts in this thread - a Noobslayer is a list that pretends at being good by crushing newbies, and falling into the shit that it is when presented with a challenge.

Most Ork lists VERY clearly fall into this category.

Example:

Outside of Kannons, Buggies (due to their mobility), Looted Wagons, Battlewagons and Lootas, Orks have no ACTUAL ranged ability to kill things, or even suppress enemy Mech.

Therefore, any list without AT THE VERY LEAST one of these elements is complete shit when faced with Nids, SW, Eldar, Tau, IG, SM...and a bunch of other lists that can keep the enemy further than 12" long enough to remove their mobility.

I see Ork lists without any of these all the time, and people telling them it's fine - it isn't.

NO-ONE likes to be curb-stomped, and ENCOURAGING new players to a point where someone from out of town can breeze in with a proper tournament list and cream them in 3 turns makes them quit the Hobby, and this is good for no-one but eBay.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

Ive explained this a few times. Its the same reason I dont run leafblower guard or lash chaos. It baits people into building up some kind of strawman of me.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Ultra111 said:


> I don't understand why you would say your 12 when you are not...Doesn't make sense.


maybe pretending to be a 12yr old russian is his fetish, a little sick really, probably likes the increased attention he gets from "special" middle aged "friends"


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## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

Bleh. Not worth it.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

TheKingElessar said:


> Chug does not live in Russia, nor is he 12.
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> ...


I think ork lists with those are still noob slayers. But at this point I am on the hunt for one of these legendary ork tacticians who can handle any army with wagon/horde orks.




> NO-ONE likes to be curb-stomped, and ENCOURAGING new players to a point where someone from out of town can breeze in with a proper tournament list and cream them in 3 turns makes them quit the Hobby, and this is good for no-one but eBay.


This is true. Nobody here, at least as far as me and TKE are concerned, is going after people personally. I just feel if you have an argument, explain. I have explained why I feel orks a bad army. "Well if played right every army is good" is not an argument. Its countered by my "if both armies are played right orks probably lose" argument, which was ignored.



> You're one to talk about special attention from middle aged 'friends' stella.


Thats just not right dude


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> maybe pretending to be a 12yr old russian is his fetish, a little sick really, probably likes the increased attention he gets from "special" middle aged "friends"


Are there a lot of those types on Heresy Stella?

*Defers to clearly greater knowledge of this*
:smoke:


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

TheKingElessar said:


> Are there a lot of those types on Heresy Stella?
> 
> *Defers to clearly greater knowledge of this*
> :smoke:


you'd have to ask someone with knowledge of that, but in GW I bet it goes down a storm, since that always has at least 1 creepy middle aged guy with a beard looking at the boys playing...and running a noobslayer list....and usually wearing a staff shirt.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

Ok you guys caught me. Its because Im really Chris Hansen and am looking for wargaming pedophiles.

So with that said, Stephen Newman, why dont you have a seat in that chair.


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## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

You don't get an opinion Chris hansen... you're 12, grow up.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> you'd have to ask someone with knowledge of that, but in GW I bet it goes down a storm, since that always has at least 1 creepy middle aged guy with a beard looking at the boys playing...and running a noobslayer list....and usually wearing a staff shirt.


That was very funny.

It would be hypocritical of me not to Rep it, so I shall.

Back on topic, does anyone else have any Noobslayer questions? Or even other terms they aren't sure of? May as well discuss them all while we are here.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

ChugginDatHaterade said:


> "Well if played right every army is good" is not an argument. Its countered by my "if both armies are played right orks probably lose" argument, which was ignored.


I will concede that I probably don't have the ins and out knowledge of the army as some others here obviously have, and as such I only have my own experiences to rely on. In those experinces I have found Orks to be a challenging opponent, both in the horde variety and the mech variety, and the few times that I have played my own army it has performed as I expected it to. Have I won every game, no I have not, but I don't think that it was a failure of the list or the army as much as some mistakes that I made and horrible dice rolling. 

That being said I am going to flip the topic slightly to this.... As you and TKE have said, and for the sake of this point I am going from the standpoint that I agree with you as to the competitiveness of an Ork army, the rest of your debate aside. If the Orks are not a competitive army, and will lose more games than they win, what would you tell a new player who has started an Ork army to help him/her avoid the "noobslayer" (back to the original topic)? I think that it is my responsibilty to bring the thread back on topic since I derailed it to begin with.

I will continue by saying that I am attracted to the hobbying aspect of Warhammer more than the gaming side, so I look at the Orks as a wonderful project full of wonderful conversions and painting challenges. If I approach the army from that stand point, which is how I ended up with Ork models in the first place, I think that it would be a horrible thing to find out that my army "sucked". As I think that any army can be played well to a certain extent, how do you keep from discouraging a new player from getting involved if his interest is in an Ork army. Just telling him that it is not competitive doesn't help him mesh his desire for an artisitic project and his desire to find a well balanced list.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

Theres a few things you have to understand about the game and semantics. And you didnt derail the thread, Stephen Newman did.

First, the term noob in this context is applied to the bottom 90-95% of the player base, at least when I use it. And I dont mean it to be degrading, the way video game players do. 

The second is that the noobslayer aspect of the ork army is as built into it as the color green. I dont think you can get that out of it. 

Third, if you want PM me and we can play either at the bookery or krystal keep sometime.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

ChugginDatHaterade said:


> First, the term noob in this context is applied to the bottom 90-95% of the player base, at least when I use it. And I dont mean it to be degrading, the way video game players do.


I normally refer it to those who cannot remember the rules. Regardless of ability since it is among the first thing you need to know about the game.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Players buying into Orks, I would advise a few things:

1) Learn not to rely on Power Klaws, by not using Nobs in Boy mobs.
2) Learn the rules to a greater extent even that other players, because any advantage you can eke out helps, and you can't learn advanced play without better-than-average rules knowledge.
3) Forget Burnas, Kommandos...every Elite but Lootas is bad as an Elite choice, and takes away from Lootas. - Lootas are the ONE Ork unit that any Codex would take off them, though Nids would try to move it to Heavy Support and Eldar to Fast Attack...
4) Have fun. You can't play as well without having fun - losing is an important part of learning, and you should EXPECT to lose more than you win, at least at first. If it's the other way around, it probably isn't because you are awesome, and it ISN'T because the army is.
5) Learn to emotionally detach from your toy soldiers - just because someone says 'Orks are bad' doesn't mean they are attacking YOU.
6) Try to stay at 1500 points or less with the army - Orks are punished less at this level, as it becomes harder for players to balance number of anti-tank weapons for everyone else, and Flamers for Orks. Marines can do it, but even variants (SW, BA) struggle, and will be forced to charge you to deal with your Boyz. This is risky for them, even though the odds still favour them, not you.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

ChugginDatHaterade said:


> Third, if you want PM me and we can play either at the bookery or krystal keep sometime.


Roger Roger


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## unixknight (Jul 26, 2010)

ChugginDatHaterade said:


> A noobslayer is a list that does very very well against beginners but falls apart against competitive players with actually solid armies. But because it does well against beginner level players it gains a reputation as good. Horde orks is a great example of this.


Kinda like the Carrier Swarm in StarCraft...


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

ChugginDatHaterade said:


> First, the term noob in this context is applied to the bottom 90-95% of the player base, at least when I use it. And I dont mean it to be degrading, the way video game players do.


So you count yourself in the top 5% of players in the world then? Or are you a noob?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> So you count yourself in the top 5% of players in the world then? Or are you a noob?


Personally, I consider it to be a 75-25% split, with the 25% being actually good...and, yes, including me.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

Yeah sure, out of all the players who play 40k. Including those who only play with 2-3 friends in their basement and such sure top 10-5%. Out of people on heresy probably top 25%


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## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

Fuck sake Chuggin you piss me off so much.

You're 12 and from russia, and you run lash chaos leafblower n wolves... ur such a noob @ 40k

man u r really aggravating.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

ChugginDatHaterade said:


> Yeah sure, out of all the players who play 40k. Including those who only play with 2-3 friends in their basement and such sure top 10-5%. Out of people on heresy probably top 25%


Care to back that up with any evidence of just blowing smoke? Like how many players are there in total in the world, whats your ELO, whats your success rate in nationals?

Oh wait they don't have ELo ranking for 40K, an no ranked nationals, guess you're just making shit up then,


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Stephen_Newman said:


> I normally refer it to those who cannot remember the rules. Regardless of ability since it is among the first thing you need to know about the game.


It's pointless asking you to answer this question, but if I asked you what was on page 94 of the BRB, you wouldn't be able to answer it immediately without checking.

Nothing else to add, it's all been said.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

Nah im not making shit up. I would say that one out of every 10-20 players i meet is as good as I am. Its not a scientific fact, but its honest and based on years of experience.


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## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

I'd table you in 12minutes CDH.

I'd noobslay you with my orks.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

12 Minutes? It would probably take you 12 minutes just to move your orks.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

ChugginDatHaterade said:


> Nah im not making shit up. I would say that one out of every 10-20 players i meet is as good as I am. Its not a scientific fact, but its honest and based on years of experience.


This is fairly close to my experience...I know...about 8 players who'd be a solid challenge, out of about...70? Somewhere between 60 and 70 I've met, and about 8 who are a challenge consistently. And by that, I don't necessarily even mean they are as good as me - just that it isn't practically a foregone conclusion.

My 25% is as hopeful as it is anything.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

ChugginDatHaterade said:


> The hell are you talking about Newman? Nobody is acting like a dick. You can debate people without disliking them. I dont actually live in Russia, I live in Dayton. Nor am I 12. And I am not getting defensive. Defensive would be trying to back out of an argument, instead of promoting debate. I figured most everyone knew that. So I think I might actually know the ork players that midge is talking about.


Well, given your command of the english language (poor) and the fact you act like puberty hasn't started yet, I believed it.


I joke, I joke.

:laugh:


Though there are some posters around that definately need a real attitude change.
The opinions presented are just that; they need to stop acting like their opinions are facts.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

There are however, facts in 40k. Such as the following. Grey hunters are better in close combat than tactical marines. Or that large hordes of orks are both very slow and unwieldy, and have trouble dealing with tanks, etc etc. The thing though that needs to be remembered is that a great deal of the very competitive gaming community, a large number of who play orks, dont feel that orks are competitive.

I borrowed a friends wagon ork army for a game and tabled a mech space wolf player, you know the deal. 3 fang squads, 5 razors of hunters, a big wolf cav deathstar. That was first game ever playing with orks against a fairly experienced mech marine player. I would never bring orks to a serious tournament. They have too many problems, all of which have been outlined above.

And I totally forgot this wasnt the orks thread


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

ChugginDatHaterade said:


> I borrowed a friends wagon ork army for a game and tabled a mech space wolf player, you know the deal. 3 fang squads, 5 razors of hunters, a big wolf cav deathstar. That was first game ever playing with orks against a fairly experienced mech marine player. I would never bring orks to a serious tournament. They have too many problems, all of which have been outlined above.
> 
> And I totally forgot this wasnt the orks thread


I don't want to start another argument Chug but the paragraph above makes it sound like you won with the Orks. If you tabled the Mech Wolf player then you have only served to prove my earlier point that Orks are competitive. If you lost, then I misunderstood what you wrote above.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

I definitely won with the orks. But that was only because he wasnt expecting what was coming to him. I noobslayed with an ork army. He never let it happen again though. Orks are very easy to learn to play against.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

ChugginDatHaterade said:


> I definitely won with the orks. But that was only because he wasnt expecting what was coming to him. I noobslayed with an ork army. He never let it happen again though. Orks are very easy to learn to play against.


True, but that can be said for just about any list. If I know you are bringing a certain army then tooling up my list to deal with yours is all part of the game. Just because I can make a list with my Nids to deal with Blood Angels, doesn't lessen the effectiveness of the BA army. Same can be said for the Tau, or the Space Marines.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

No no, Im not talking about list tailoring at all. Im talking about during the game tactics and what you expect from your opponents army. The above mentioned blood angels example, that army has 3 autocannons, 6 lascannons, and 14 melta guns. Not a single flamer and I still feel confident I could give orks a fight.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Vaz said:


> It's pointless asking you to answer this question, but if I asked you what was on page 94 of the BRB, you wouldn't be able to answer it immediately without checking.
> 
> Nothing else to add, it's all been said.


Actually sad as it is. I have a mild photograpgic memory so I could tell you that either has relevance to the missions section or just the introduction page of the Dark Millenium section of the book.

Actually I meant someone who does not know the rules. Not remember every part of the rulebook.


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## Anfo (Jul 17, 2009)

ChugginDatHaterade said:


> Its not a scientific fact, but its honest and based on years of experience.


You're 12...you have no 'years' of experience.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Anfo said:


> You're 12...you have no 'years' of experience.


Jesus, people continually fall for this..He isn't 12. And, According to him, he isn't a netlister. Though he is quite knowledgeable in terms of competitive play. If he says so, chances are, its true.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Anfo said:


> You're 12...you have no 'years' of experience.


You're 15. Have you even started shaving? How's tenth grade working out? Voice still cracking?

Seriously, three years isn't a large difference. Plus, I think Chug's older than me.


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## Flindo (Oct 30, 2010)

I have never heard this term used at my FLGS, however, as you can see from my wins defeats raitio, I am not a noob slayer .

-Flindo

EDIT: This was my 500th post


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

Midge913 said:


> Except that Horde Orks are effective and competitive if used correctly.


Just like EVERYTHING


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## Zjoekov (Jan 11, 2011)

It's funny how many people attempt to troll ChugginDatHaterade. I think you make quite some people feel uncomfortable Manus  

Fact is that Chuggin obviously knows where he's talking about and he's able to back up his claims with proper arguments. Contrary to the people who claim that Orks are competative because...eh... well just because!

I heard from reliable sources though that he's definitely 12 years old and n00bslays with his Leafblower army while lawyering the crap out of little kids.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Competitiveness is not something provable by discussion. Just an aside.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Alsojames said:


> Just like EVERYTHING


Or not?

Really...players of equal skill, competitive lists, average dice - Orks will lose to *ANY*5e Codex.

So will Necrons and current DH. Daemons and DA are close behind. Then Eldar, Chaos, BTs, SoBs. (In no particular order.)


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