# What if there was no Horus Heresy?



## Wolfhound10 (Mar 18, 2008)

Hi there folks. I'm new to the forums here, and looking for your input on this topic. 

So lets say that the Horus Heresy doesn't happen, or at least not nearly to the degree that it did. Maybe the Emperor heeds Magnus's warnings and takes action, or treats some of the Primarchs better. Maybe Horus doesn't even get "possessed" in the first place. Whatever.

How would this affect the future of the Imperium? Does the Second Founding still happen? Does the Inquisition get formed? Does the Great Crusade continue on as before, or slow down in the face of resistance from the other races? Does the Emperor finish his project of allowing humans to break into the Webway?

What do you guys think? I can see a much more successful Imperium myself, especially if it manages to hold onto some of the space marine legions that otherwise would have turned to Chaos.

Opinions?


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## MercStrider (Mar 14, 2008)

Mankind like the eldar were doomed to the path of extinction at the time of their conception. Besides... If it didn't happen, you couldn't really have the interesting 40k game we have today.


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## Silb (Jan 28, 2008)

The high lords of Games Workshop forbid these thoughts because the horus heresy was their path to a larger wallet!

Answering your questions, the Imperium wouldn't know that much about the threat of chaos and Cadia wouldn't be as heavily guarded. This would allow daemons and the occasional heretics to sneak into Cadia and disable its pylons with little or no effort. The second founding would not happen because there would be no reason to seperate the legions (unless they saw just the Word Bearers and a couple other legions turning traitor as a major threat). The Ordo Xenos would be created but the Ordo Hereticus and the Ordo Malleus would, at the very least, be postponed in its creation. The Great Crusade would still continue, but would start to slow down once the nids/necrons were encountered. The emperor would finish his webway gate thing but who knows what would happen then. All hell could break loose. Assuming that hacking into the webway doesn't majorly weaken the Imperium, the Imperium would be significantly more powerful, since they would still have most of the primarchs, the emperor, and many more space marines, guardsmen, and titans. Also, the Ecclesiarchy wouldn't be created because of the emperor's no-religion laws. This would make the Imperium less corrupt but would stop the creation of the Ordo Hereticus; although it is possible that the Sisters of Battle would still be created but would operate as part of another section of the Imperium, maybe as part of a plan to recruit women into a massive fighting force in order to fight the many threats of the galaxy.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

It would be the space marines would be the most powerful army in the game, and there would be no such thing as chaos space marines ownly deamons.


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## Alias2003 (Feb 7, 2008)

Spaces Marines wouldn't be the most powerful army in the game. There are still other races that are in the universe, and switching an event such as the HH, must have had an effect on the other races. I believe there are many different angles you could take, and there could still be chaos space marines. Remember, regular space marines were corrupted even before the Primarchs. So, over the 10000 years, there could be marines that still turned to Chaos and fought in their ranks. Interesting topic tho.

Alias


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## NiGhTloRd (Mar 17, 2008)

*no horus heresy .....arrr*

this could have been i spose and like some said there would be other races that would have been a pain in the armoured a**se :victory:

On the other hand again with the first rules all those millennia ago  i did the unspoken ... i made it so a cpl squads of space marines (bout all i had at the time ) had farted in they`re great ceremonies and got kicked out ...therefore turned against the Imperium.

So if Horus didn`t do it i did :biggrin:

So where there is an Imperium there will always be a chaotic version :victory:


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

That's an interesting thought. We would already have several new outcomes...

The Emporor is still alive. Several Primarchs would have never died. The Space Marine legions would remain as strong as they ever were. We would have the Webway portal. Certainly not saying they aren't the largest power in this particular galaxy, but that it would at least be twice as strong if not more so.

Other factors to consider...

The Tau Empire expanded during the Black Crusade; they probably would have been crushed under the Imperium pretty quickly. 

The Tyranid invasions would have been better defended against. Maccrage may not have suffered such huge loses and more defense would be committed to that front. 

The Chaos forces would still only be able to materialize through the Eye Of Terror, so I don't honestly see that front changing very much. With the exception that the enemy forces there would certainly be more pirate like and less organized as well as less susbtantial. 

The Orc empires may not have been able to grow as rapidly as they did. Armageddon would have changed dramatically as additional forces, and more than likely an entire Space Marine legion would have crushed the orcs. 

The Necrons would still be a threat, but more resources could be put against them. 

The Eldar of both incarnations still aren't much of a threat anyway and would simply be a troublesome nat, with few places to hide considering we would have access to their webway. The Black Library being another matter, but work similarly to the new Eye of Terror. 

But if I didn't say it already; humanity would still be united under the Emporors will and additional crusades woulds have taken place.


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## rafunparked (Feb 2, 2008)

Yeah the emperium would probably the most powerful force in the galaxy, even over the nids and every other race. You have to remember that the primarchs would prolly still be alive making smarter tactical decisions that otherwise would have fallen to the chapter masters like today. Also the SM legions were just that, LEGIONS. They werent 1000 man chapters sent to destroy forces like they are now they were 100,000 strong atleast. If chapters can do the damage they do now to the opposing forces then the legions would be unstoppable.
Just my 2 cents thrown in.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

We'd be called "snappydressers-online.net"


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

There are a couple things that were inevitable, though, and would have pretty major impacts.

Magnus the Red was in violation of Imperial Law as decreed on Nikea, and eventually would have done something to warrant his arrest, if the Emperor didn't sic the Wolves on him for blowing out every psychic ward in the Imperial Palace to warn the Emperor. As a result, the Emperor would be short his man to sit on the Golden Throne and maintain the webway link. More likely than not, the Emperor would still end up on the Golden Throne, albeit not as a means to keep him alive, but as a means to keep the webway open. Most likely, with Magnus' eventual arrest, the Thousand Sons would be disbanded.

The Emperor would've also had to have dealt with the Night Lords at some point, and probably the World Eaters-- both were a little excessive in brutality. The Word Bearers were already traitors regardless of what Horus did, so there would've at least been a fight there. By my count, that's four Legions that the Imperium was going to probably lose either way. 

Assuming the Imperium did manage to break into the webway successfully and maintain that open link, the Eldar probably wouldn't have stood for it. There's a good possibility that we'd still have the Battle of Terra, but rather than Horus being on the opposing side, we'd have the Eldar trying to close that webway gate. 

Keep in mind that it's not clear the Emperor was physically immortal and he may have had to have been wired into the Golden Throne eventually anyway. That'd probably mean that the Imperial Cult is also an inevitability. Having the Primarchs around for a time (they too would've likely wandered off eventually, died, or whatever) would've helped, but somehow, I think the Imperium was sort of destined to end up as a facist theocracy-- the Heresy just accellerated that likely outcome.


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## Silb (Jan 28, 2008)

The Son of Horus said:


> ........I think the Imperium was sort of destined to end up as a facist theocracy-- the Heresy just accellerated that likely outcome.


They were destined for a facist theocracy, but not because of the marine legions or the eldar, it's because of the balance of universal power maintained by the massive, mysterious, and greedy powers of Games Workshop.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Jez, hilarious! I am glad it is after work.


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## chrisman 007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting idea. well, the imperium would've dominated the entire galaxy (to a certain extent), and the human race would be one united body. Xenos would be under a lot more pressure, the tau would've gone (the imperium would be more focused, and send all it's forces on one point).


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

The Sons of Horus. You raise some interesting points about the inherent inevitability of the Imperium fracturing. Regardless of whether or not the Emperor was still alive, the influence of chaos and individuality within the ranks of the Primarchs was already manifesting itself different ways. The real question would have been what would have had to happen to prevent the heresy from actually happening. One could argue that the forces of Chaos would have simply chosen an alternative champion over Horus if they could not gain control over him. 

I don’t think the Emperor himself would have willingly ascended the throne simply to maintain the portal, simply because of his necessity to guide his forces within the portal would have been to paramount to trust to other psyckers or Primarchs. They may represent him, but to insure humanities survival, he would have gone first. 

The tactics of each SM Legion would have been revised and visited at one point, but I doubt they would have been disbanded unless they continued being overly brutal. Even the current Blood Angels and Space Wolf chapters share some vicious traits that the Emperor would have addressed. In order to continue the crusades, the legions at most would have been absorbed by the others and the Primarchs chastised for not maintaining civil control. 

I would agree that the Eldar would have stepped in, but even at the time, I doubt they would have been able to match the might that Horus brought back to Terra. Their vast civilization was already shattered by Slaneesh as is, and every craft world was struggling to survive. Plus the Emperor and the Primarchs would have been at full power and be able to bring the vast armies under their control as well as their powers towards a single goal. A fight it may have been, but a quick and decisive lose would have been the fate of the Eldar. 

As far as the Emperor himself, we don’t know how long he could have survived. He’s lasted this long through the aid of the Golden throne, after his physical form was all but crippled by Horus. Who knows how he would have aged, considering how long he had lived prior to the great crusade. Even then, he would have chosen a likely heir in the event of his demise, who presumably would have been Horus himself. Not tainted by Chaos and presumably granted the vast powers and insight of the Emperor himself, could have easily maintained the Imperium to this day with little trouble, and possible grand expansion. 

However, it did seem regardless of the human spirit and possible outcome that the seeds of Chaos were planted long before the Imperium began to form and the human will is a fickle thing indeed.


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## OneEyedSpaceMarine (Mar 17, 2008)

The Emperor IS immortal, he's been alive for tens of thousands of yers, dating back to Before Christ. I dont think another 10,000 years would make a big enough diffrence to wire him into the golden throne. If the emperor were still fully alive, a huge portioon of the galaxy would be under terran rule. The Spacemarines would probably be used as a peace keping force, one of the things that angered Horus to no end.


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## Gore Hunter (Nov 5, 2007)

It was nothing to do with the Emperor treating hs Primarchs nicely They just trusted Horus + barely any of them realised that they were descending to chaos before it was to late.


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## Ljohnson (Apr 14, 2008)

It would be a boring game....


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## lightmonkey (Apr 1, 2008)

very true indeed, but nids would be more of a threat.


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## Tau Chaotix (Mar 1, 2008)

Even without the HH humanity would crumble eventualy, as some remembrance poet Karkesy said "no structure can last forever" the same aplies to civilisations, the Romans crumbld, the egyptions crumbled etc.

-Olek.


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## Lore-Colten (Mar 28, 2008)

well, chaos would still be a threat, as the gods didnt need horus nto push forward, no, do space marines still have desires? yes, will some turn, yes


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