# Need advice/help. (Space Marines, Imperial Guard, general painting &figure collecting



## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

*Need advice/help. (Space Marines, Imperial Guard, general painting &figure collecting*

I'm new here, and am planning to start playing the 40k tabletop game proper, having been drawn to the universe by the books and websites. I've looked through the various codexes, and decided to play either Space Marines or Cadian guard. However, upon looking through the games workshop online store, I ran into some issues.

1)How do you add shoulderpad decorations? Is glue needed for all figures? If so, what kind of glue?

2)What kinds of spraypaint are usable for figures? Is it necessary to use the official, possibly overpriced, spray and detail paints for them, or can I use generic brands? If so, can you name acceptable ones?

3)What's the cheapest set of figure purchases needed to actually start playing (I already have the SM and IG codexes, and the 5th edition rulebook)?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Ok so, first of all which army?
IG or SM?

With IG, you need a surprisingly large amount of models for a minimum force.
With SM, you can have 11 models in your minimum force.

For SM (probably an easier first army), I'd suggest first off getting a Tactical squad.
Do them up nicely, give 7 guys bolters, and leave the other 3 Armless, you want to know what you're giving them first.

1) You mean transfers? This article explains how you work them.

2) Use GW paints, they're designed for the models, and very good quality. Yes they're expensive, but if you use them right they last a long time.

3) Do you have any friends who play? Because to actually have a decent fight you need a fair bunch of models, best to borrow an army until you have your own.


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

Hello, and welcome to the hobby :grin:.

1)Shoulder pads decorations can either be transfers (As Winterous stated) or painted on by hand with a fine-scale brush and nerves of steel. Most, if not all, models need glue. Fortuneatly, most of the rank and file models are now plastic, so you can assemble them with plastic model glue (The same glue used to glue together model cars/trains/planes). Plastic model glue is generally easier to work with, as it actually melts the pieces joined together. If the model is metal, or a hybrid of metal and plastic, you'll need to use Super Glue (AKA Krazy Glue). A bit harder to work with, and somewhat more haradous as it can bond flesh in seconds.

2) The Gw spraypaint is usually good, but CAN be more expensive. It IS formulated for use on models, so you don't have to worry about odd chemical reactions. If you check the local craft stores you can probably find alternatives, but best to check the reaction on spare pieces of plastic. As for the detail paint, you have alot more options besides GW: Vallejo, Tamiya, Delta Americana, and Reaper are all good names. Delta may be the cheapest, and available at most craft and hardware stores. Mostly, alomost any acrylic paint will work, as they're easier to work with than oil-based paints.

3) The tactical squad is a good starting place for marines. To get the hang of painting/assembling, most GW and stores that sell GW product have painting nights specifically for people that want to learn how to paint and assemble models. Of course, the painting and modelling forums on THIS very site are some of the best online.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Ok, thanks for the help.

What about vehicles, painting/cost/ decorations-wise? I'm wondering if I should get them, seeing as they cost the same as a single Spess Marine squad...


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

hungryugolino said:


> Ok, thanks for the help.
> 
> What about vehicles, painting/cost/ decorations-wise? I'm wondering if I should get them, seeing as they cost the same as a single Spess Marine squad...


Get a Vindicator, easily the best Heavy Support choice for Marines.
You'll almost always use it, so it's a sure buy.

I'd assemble it without any gear other than stock, except maybe extra armour.
And for the Siege Shield, magnetise it; it looks fucking awesome, but you don't want it all the time.


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

from your codex you'll see that a vindicator is a pie plate specialist for SM

but i recommend getting a predator first, as you have more options for weapons and the like- you can start out by simply blu-taccing the guns on and tryin them against friend to see what you want
- the vindicator is good aswell, easy and a prety good model- pretty much u just aim and shoot with the big template and if you dont scatter then you will generally kill alot

have a look at other people's lists on this site (very infomative) and then post up your own list before you buy and assemble too much- this way we will be able to help you adjust it and then you start giving GW all your money

if you want to dive in the deep end, buy the battleforce and be guided by your codex on how you assemble

(SM is a much easier army to use than IG, in my opinion, so id start with them)


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

hungryugolino said:


> Ok, thanks for the help.
> 
> What about vehicles, painting/cost/ decorations-wise? I'm wondering if I should get them, seeing as they cost the same as a single Spess Marine squad...


didnt realise i wasn't answering the question- sorry

you will find that everything is expensive in the world of warhammer, its not like you can go to the competitor and get it cheaper (and dont GW know it, just scroll over the acronym).
The vehicle kits come with alot of optional 'decorations' for your vehicles, so they can be reasonably customised with different bibs and bobs. 
i have bought the GW spray gun for my tanks- i simply undercoat then apply several layers of camo style colours, and i weather them to look 'veterany'
the cost is the cost, i once read a national poll that discovered that warhammer is the most expensive domestic hooby from all that they researched- try ebay if you want (slightly) cheaper deals.

hope my rantings helped!:victory:


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

*Blood Ravens*

Ok, thanks. As for price, I'm aware 40k is an expensive hobby. I'm just trying to save money where I can... 

I have a different, related question. I want to paint a Blood Ravens Army, but can't find instructions for anything but their marines. Does anyone collect blood ravens/ have a better painting guide than the official one?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

hungryugolino said:


> Ok, thanks. As for price, I'm aware 40k is an expensive hobby. I'm just trying to save money where I can...
> 
> I have a different, related question. I want to paint a Blood Ravens Army, but can't find instructions for anything but their marines. Does anyone collect blood ravens/ have a better painting guide than the official one?


Well the instructions for their basic Marines should be enough.
You paint all the vehicles the same way as you do the Power armour, just with more details.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I've painted a couple Blood Ravens armies, and I've found they're very simple to paint once you get the steps down.

I've found it's easier to paint Space Marines without their backpacks or bolters glued. If they're already glued on, no big deal-- it's a little harder to get the brush to the breastplate, both front and back, with the gun and pack attached, though.

I'd start from a black undercoat-- that means spraying the model black. Set primed models aside for a couple hours. The undercoat actually dries in about fifteen minutes, but it's better to be sure, and this gives the primer time to do its chemical thing to key to the model. 

Then, if you're using Games Workshop paints, I'd start with a basecoat of Mecherite Red-- that's the Foundation Paint. Remember, foundation paints are rather thick, so you'll want to thin it a little with some water. Paint everything that's not going to be metal with it. 

Now, get an old eyedropper bottle or mixing pot-- you can find either at any hobby store. You'll want to mix up a wash of Baal Red, Leviathan Purple, and Devlan Mud, at about a 1-1-1 ratio. When your red is dry, give the model a wash with this. This will shade the red nicely. This takes a while to dry, so I'd set the model aside at this point for a bit.

I'd then go and paint the soft armor (the ribbed bits on the joints), the belt, and the metal bits of the bolter and backpack with Boltgun Metal. When that's dry, give those bits a wash of Badab Black.

With a detail brush, pick out the eyes with Knarloc Green (the mid-tone Foundation Green), then again with Goblin Green. Dot the eyes with white when that's dry.

Now, paint the shoulder pads with Khemri Brown. Don't worry about getting it on the shoulder pad trim, because we'll touch that up in a bit. When the Khemri Brown is dry, apply a couple thin layers of Bleached Bone. It won't cover evenly in one coat, and if you just lather it on, you'll obscure detail. Once you're happy with the bone color on the shoulder pad, wash it with Devlan Mud. 

When the shoulder pad is dry, pick out the trim on the pad and the eagle on the breastplate in black. At this point, the model should be good to go. 

When your hand has become a bit more steady after some time in the hobby, you can go back and add highlights and more detail-- but for the time being, those steps will give you a consistent, easy result for Blood Ravens.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

And for a gold eagle ala http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PpaJ8vsrk...mn07H8/s1600-R/Screenshot-Wine+desktop-3.png?

Thanks for the guide: it has fewer paints needed than the official one: 15 paint pots for one spess marine is a bit silly.

By the way, do you have photos of the BR made with that? I'm kinda curious what they'll look like...

:grin:

P.S.

What are "inks" and how much do they cost?


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of them done with that technique. I use a different technique for commission work, but it's not one that's conductive to learning how to paint models, or put an army on the table quickly, for that matter.

Games Workshop doesn't make inks anymore-- a lot of people call the new washes GW makes "inks" because they're used similarly, but they're actually quite different.

A wash is made either by watering paint down to about 75% water to 25% paint (so watered down, in other words, that it flows into the recesses) or by mixing paint with wash medium in the same proportions (about 75% wash medium to 25% paint.) 

GW's washes cost as much as any of their regular paints, which, in my opinion, are overpriced and not particularly good. The washes and foundation paints are about the only thing from GW that I still use. The regular Citadel Color range is fine for learning how to paint with, but I'd switch to Reaper Master Series/Vallejo (the products are identical apart from branding) as soon as you've mastered the basic techniques. Reaper and Vallejo are cheaper and don't dry out due to bad packaging, to boot. 

Reaper and Vallejo both make inks still. Inks are very similar to washes, except they're in an ink medium, which is a gloss medium. Inks are used for "lining in" recesses and for glazing a miniature (which is similar in concept to washing, but is used to give an overall tone to the model rather than shade recesses and even out harsh highlights.) You can also wash a miniature with inks, but you end up with a slight gloss finish. In some cases, that's fine-- if you're going for a slightly wet or slimey look, that's perfect, but in others, you'll have to go back over it again with a matte medium to even it out.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Ok, thanks. Can you tell me which GW paints correspond to which Reaper/Vallejo ones?


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Sure. There's a conversion table in the Modelling & Painting Section, which can be found here: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31571

While not complete, it covers the conversion from GW to Reaper and Vallejo-- but Reaper and Vallejo's lines are both much more extensive than GW's-- Reaper Master Series has 200-some-odd colors, last I counted, for example.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Well, I took the leap today and finally got the marine tactical squad set, a can of chaos black spray, and a bottle of glue. Paints are next...:grin:

On a related note, what varnishes should I get? I hear bad things about the GW ones, and would find ones stocked by wal-mart/home depot etc. easiest to get. Any good, common and preferably cheap ones?


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## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

SoH's tutorial tips are good and it's a very good colour scheme, I have been painting my space hulk terminators to blood ravens too. When i get around to making a tutorial for the colours etc i will give you a shout.

I find the Gw ardcoat varnish spray gives a semi-glossy effect on your model which does fade with time and use, so if you expect to game quite a bit then there isn't any harm in using it. I personally use the vallejo matt varnish which is really good. But with any varnish always shake the can vigourously for a few minutes before use and don't get too close to the model with it or else it will leave a white build up on the model and ruin the paintjob and the model.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Two more Spess Marine questions.

1. Which hand goes with the bolter and how does it fit with it? A picture would be helpful.

2. How should I equip the squad? Advice welcome.


EDIT: Disregard the first question please; answered at http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=221 .

I'm thinking mostly bolters, a bolt/chainsword combo for the sarge...


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Another question:

what ratio of paint to water constitutes "foundation"? "thin"? full layer?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

hungryugolino said:


> Another question:
> 
> what ratio of paint to water constitutes "foundation"? "thin"? full layer?


Answer:

Experiment.
It's hard to tell you, you might want to have a different consistency for your models, but a good bet (what I use for my Nids) is about 1:2 water to paint, I only do 2 layers though, and the 2nd layer is just a touch up.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Ok, thanks. 

I have a Spess Marine specific question as well:
the tactical marine set comes with ten or so backpacks. Some have skulls on the back, others have vents. There are 4 or 5 with a hole where the decoration should be. Any idea what should go there, if anything? I've never heard of a Spess Marine with a hole in its backpack.

Also, if anyone knows whether I can get backpacks with an Aquila and skull on them ala Dawn of War's marines, your help would be welcome.


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## pantsmessiah (Aug 16, 2009)

If I'm thinking of the right thing that is where a banner pole would go. Is it towards the top of the pack between the skulls/vents?

ie:


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

It's not on top so much as towards the middle, where the skull/lower vent are in the two others. Also, how do you paint a plasma gun/rocket?


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Another question: how does a SM sergeant differ from normal marines? I can't see any real difference beyond the lack of a helmet and flag on the back...


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

hungryugolino said:


> Another question: how does a SM sergeant differ from normal marines? I can't see any real difference beyond the lack of a helmet and flag on the back...


Rules wise he has 1 more attack and Ld.
Model wise all you have to do is make it obvious he IS the Sergeant.
Most of mine would have a helmet on, and only a few would have the banner, I'd just give them a fancy ornament and a Powerfist (a sure sign of Sergeanthood)


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Ok, but what do you mean by ornament? Also, the tactical marine pack doesn't come with a power fist, right?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

hungryugolino said:


> Ok, but what do you mean by ornament? Also, the tactical marine pack doesn't come with a power fist, right?


Ornament, as in decoration.
Like, a loincloth, or a fancy head dress, or different armour, or a shoulder pad with an insignia on it.
Things like that.

No, the Tactical Marine box does not come with a Powerfist.
Unfortunately the only Melee weapons it DOES come with are Knives and a Chainsword, there's a few Bolt Pistols in there too.


There are only 4 kits that include plastic Powerfists for loyalist Marines.

Devastators, there's a left-handed one pointing with a small scroll on it, for a name or something (don't know why Devastators would WANT a fist)

Command Squad, a left-handed one which isn't clenched, so it's kind of claw-like in appearance, I think the symbol on it is a Crozius Arcanum, the weapon Chaplains use.

Commander set, this set is very useful, containing the only plastic Combi-weapons available, and has a fist and Power sword, the fist is left-handed, clenched fully, and has one of those leafy head dress things on it, like hat Caesar wore.

Assault Marines, has a Power sword, Power axe (pretty), and a right-handed (only right one) Powerfist, pointing to the side, with a skull on the top.


If ever you need to know what a box comes with, use this site.
http://www.bitzbox.co.uk/
It doesn't say how many, but it tells you what it has in it!


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Ah, I see. Since we're discussing tactical marines, how should I paint the krak grenades and knives?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

hungryugolino said:


> Ah, I see. Since we're discussing tactical marines, how should I paint the krak grenades and knives?


Knives, however you want.
Krak grenades?
I think people generally paint them red, not sure though.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I generally paint the knives and krak grenades the same way as any other metal on the model. The frags, on the other hand, I tend to paint green. A lot of "pineapple" style grenades seem to be portrayed as being green in a lot of art, on TV, etc., so even though they're generally not green, it makes them stand out as frags on the model, I think. Then, I just hit the pins with the equivalent of chainmail.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Ok, so I've got my tac marines, a brush, and a dozen 12 ml pots. Time to make a monstrosity of misapplied paints...

How much should I water it down for base/secondary layers etc?


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

hungryugolino said:


> Ok, so I've got my tac marines, a brush, and a dozen 12 ml pots. Time to make a monstrosity of misapplied paints...
> 
> How much should I water it down for base/secondary layers etc?


Depends what style of painting you are going for - if you haven't already i'd spend a few hours looking through the painting guides on the heresy forums and on youtube.

When i came back to the hobby i spent a night doing just this, and my first mini was staggeringly better than the ones i'd painted all those years ago.

In a short answer though, for general painting you want it thick enough to actually get some colour down, but watery enough so it flows well and doesn't obscure the details - about 2:1 water to paint is a very rough estimate.

Good luck brother ugolino, give us some pics when you're done


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

*Well.*

Finally painted my first figure. 

On one hand, I was a complete idiot and didn't thin the paints. You can still see the details though, and looks ok from medium distance (in any theoretical games). Paint's a bit blotchy, but not so you'd notice at a distance. 

Painting then assembling appears to be the way to go. A great way to make bricks is to cut up the frames the pieces come in. I made a pretty nice stand that way. : Boltgun Metal, Chaos Black, and some carefully applied and smeared Red Gore for bloodstains) The base is better than the miniature, really...

On the other hand, decals are fairly easy to paint if you use a mechanical pencil. I used one ("Sharpwriter" with the lead extended for most of the painting and decal creation.) No need for transfers.

So, one Marine. No Golden Daemon, but could have been worse. Lost my camera, so no pics for now.

Just one question: where would the Marine's combat knife go? Sidearm? Main weapon (flamer, boltgun, meltagun)? I put the krak grenades on the marine's right side of the belt.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

hungryugolino said:


> Just one question: where would the Marine's combat knife go? Sidearm? Main weapon (flamer, boltgun, meltagun)? I put the krak grenades on the marine's right side of the belt.


Doesn't matter where it goes.
I think a lot of people put it on the lower leg, but on their back or on their arm even would work well.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Another couple of questions.

1)What paint ratios for detail/normal undercoat/high-lighting?

2)Does the Force Commander set come with a "standard" backpack as well as the eagle one?

3)What's the difference between frag and krak grenade models, if any?


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

hungryugolino said:


> 2)What kinds of spraypaint are usable for figures? Is it necessary to use the official, possibly overpriced, spray and detail paints for them, or can I use generic brands? If so, can you name acceptable ones?
> 
> 3)What's the cheapest set of figure purchases needed to actually start playing (I already have the SM and IG codexes, and the 5th edition rulebook)?


2) Army Painter supplies what is in my experienced opinion the best range. They have throngs of different spray paint colors, and they are formulated pretty much the same as GW, costs less, and as I said; more different colors. They even have a yellow spray paint, which if most Iyanden or Alaitoc players knew about would save a lot of people much headaches. I strongly suggest you check out their browns and greens - or their greytones for your Imperial guard.

3) it depends on the chapter. Vanilla space marines; tactical squads. Blood Angels; assault marines (these replace tacticals). Dark Angel ravenwing or White scars; bikes. Dark Angels Deathwing; terminators.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

hungryugolino said:


> Another couple of questions.
> 
> 1)What paint ratios for detail/normal undercoat/high-lighting?
> 
> ...


1)If you're talking about watering down, you don't have to water down paint to highlight.

2)No :/

3)The ones on the SM sprues are all alike, but normally you don't have to represent stuff like that on a model. In the real world, a "krak" grenade is reminiscent to a High Explosive grenade, (cylindrical in shape, kinda like a coke can) while a "frag" is like the little green round ones you see in movies. (Although the ones in movies tend to explode like a freaking incendiary grenade, but that's a whole different story!  )


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> 3)The ones on the SM sprues are all alike, but normally you don't have to represent stuff like that on a model. In the real world, a "krak" grenade is reminiscent to a High Explosive grenade, (cylindrical in shape, kinda like a coke can) while a "frag" is like the little green round ones you see in movies. (Although the ones in movies tend to explode like a freaking incendiary grenade, but that's a whole different story!  )


Frag grenades are the cylindrical ones with bumps on them, whereas Krak grenades look like big pills, they're rounded with a ring in the middle.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

High explosive grenade as it appears in the real world (and counter strike, heheh)









Frag Grenade









The US MKII Frag.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Pictars.


What's your point?
One of them has the pineapple bumps on the outside, thereby CLEARLY labeling it fragmentation.
The other may well be a HE grenade, but it's actually a Krak grenade by process of deduction.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Winterous said:


> What's your point?
> One of them has the pineapple bumps on the outside, thereby CLEARLY labeling it fragmentation.
> The other may well be a HE grenade, but it's actually a Krak grenade by process of deduction.


My point was that in your previous post you switched them around.

Also, HE = Krak. Same thing. Krak is just the 40K name for "big 'splodin 'nade" aka High Explosive.

And frags will never change, they'll always be like little round apples of shrapnelly love. :laugh:


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> My point was that in your previous post you switched them around.
> 
> Also, HE = Krak. Same thing. Krak is just the 40K name for "big 'splodin 'nade" aka High Explosive.
> 
> And frags will never change, they'll always be like little round apples of shrapnelly love. :laugh:


<3 Frags, they're so kayewt :3

And Krak nades are actually _implosive_, they're designed to rip a hole in armour, I'm pretty sure at least.


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## hungryugolino (Sep 12, 2009)

Ok...been a while.

I now have three Marines more or less painted: two bolter tac marines and a plasma pistol/chainsword sergeant. Marine Number 1 is ok; I'm touching up the red bits. Marine number 2, I'm completely repainting; the shading doesn't fit in with the brighter other two. I'm actually pretty happy with my sergeant. His face turned out better than I expected it to: it doesn't look too shabby on the table. Needs better detailing though. I'd upload pics if I could.

Anyway, do any kits have krak grenade models in them? I intend to give my second marine squad the heavy stuff.


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