# Chaos Marauders, more than human shields?



## The Sullen One

I'm slowly building a Chaos army, and I want to include some Marauders. Are they good for anything other than cheap cover for my stronger units?


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## keytag33

They are better than core troops for some armies. 

I run them in blocks of twenty, they can do the whole meat shield thing and they do make nice screening units for frenzied troops. But the really cool thing is when they come to grips with the enemy they can hold their own pretty darn well.

I hope this helps


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## Vaz

I run blocks of 20 for smaller forces, and run them much larger.

155points, for 25 Marauders, Great Weapons and Mark of Khorne. 

Human Shields - 90 Points for a 5+ AS and -1 to hit or 80pts for 6+ Ward. Very nice.

I'm a fan of them, other than the models, although they are passable. You can theoretically fit 300+ Models into an army, or even 250, and have them be effective. Chaos can now do the un-numbered tides they're famous for


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## Ascendant Valor

Ever try sending a strong unit (with MoK and GW) into a unit of Empire State troops with a detachment? They'll cost about the same number of points, yet the Marauders will topple them.


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## Othiem

Ascendant Valor said:


> Ever try sending a strong unit (with MoK and GW) into a unit of Empire State troops with a detachment? They'll cost about the same number of points, yet the Marauders will topple them.


Not really. Take your 5x4 marauder unit and change into a 5x4 block of spears with a 5 column militia detachment. Militia go first taking out 2. Then marauders attack killing 5.5 spears, 1 militia. 5 attacks back if the champ challenged, the spears take down another 1 model. So that's 3 kills for Empire to 6 kills for the marauders. Empire has outnumber, flanking, and denies rank bonus, so that's 2 up for the Empire.

This is also assuming that the Marauders got the charge. At 4" M each, they don't have any movement advantage. Given you only expect the spears to get 5 attacks back best case anyways, charging in with them nets the same amount of attacks and clears out some of the front rank.

So net expectations: 
- Marauders get the charge, Empire wins by 2
- Empire gets the charge, Empire wins combat by a decent margin

I'd certainly hope this is the expected result, since the Empire unit is the far more expensive.
180 point Empire Unit
150 point Marauder Unit

However the Empire unit does not suffer from frenzy. Also, given the general theme of chaos as having very low body count, high priced troops, it makes sense that Marauders should come at a discount to compensate for the armies lack of numbers. 

Take home message: Marauders are really really good, and the variety of marks and gear makes them able to fill a wide set of roles, but even lowly state troops can deal with them.


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## scruff

Marauder Armies are well worth the price. Especially when you start with Wulfrik - he's BUILT for Marauder armies - and then add a couple of awesome heroes on top. Festus only makes sense with Marauders as Warriors do not give a damn about his ability
You could even take some Horsemen as part of it ^_^


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## Ascendant Valor

@Othiem: Don't be disillusioned by MathHammer. It's the rolls of the dice that matter, and the math is based on averages. Saying definitively one way or the other with math, in just about every scenario, is absurd. 

Ever try to design a concrete beam to exact specifications? There's no point, since the loading situations vary greatly. Hence, a lot of assumptions are made and a lot of factors are applied to compensate.

Point: I've seen such a thing happen, where the Marauders shred the State Troops.

I agree, the proper setup of State Troops can stand to perform admirably in many situations (making the Empire a decent army), but Marauders do pack tremendous punch point-for-point. One on One, Marauders will just about always win. On a larger scale, though, is where the State Troops really, REALLY come into play, because of their special rules and variety of arms and applications. I do agree with your MathHammer, but I take such calculations with caution since it only applies to an ideal situation of averages.


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## Othiem

Ascendant Valor said:


> @Othiem: Don't be disillusioned by MathHammer. It's the rolls of the dice that matter, and the math is based on averages. Saying definitively one way or the other with math, in just about every scenario, is absurd.


I'm not saying it's definitive, I'm saying that your definitive statement is demonstrably false. You can have your own opinions, but not your own facts. 



> Ever try to design a concrete beam to exact specifications? There's no point, since the loading situations vary greatly. Hence, a lot of assumptions are made and a lot of factors are applied to compensate.


You're the one who created the scenario, and the situation unit A charges unit B to the front isn't exactly a contrived one where tons of assumptions are being made. 



> Point: I've seen such a thing happen, where the Marauders shred the State Troops.


Of course you have, it's a dice game. Doesn't change the expected outcome.



> One on One, Marauders will just about always win. On a larger scale, though, is where the State Troops really, REALLY come into play, because of their special rules and variety of arms and applications. I do agree with your MathHammer, but I take such calculations with caution since it only applies to an ideal situation of averages.


I don't understand how you can agree with my math and then continue to harp on "one on one marauders will just about always win." Again, block of spears taking a charge isn't exactly a freak occurrence, it's pretty much the 90% case. Secondly, talking about marauders in general isn't terribly informative, since they're one of the most customizable units in the game.
They are a good unit that can fill many roles other than just screening more expensive units, but telling the OP to throw them into a combat you will lose the majority of the time is not a good idea.


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## Ascendant Valor

What I have meant to say all along is such:
"Marauders are powerful, in that they are cheap yet customizable. If used properly, they can hold their own in an army."
General, yes, but I do think such a broad generalization is what was sought after in this post. My opinion, such as it is, stands.


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