# BA DoA - 2 Librarians vs Mephiston?



## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm putting the finishing touches on my Blood Angel DoA army and noticed that Mephiston is conveniently exactly the same amount of points as the two jump pack Librarians I have slated as my HQ now. I'm working over the advantages and disadvantages and wondered if anybody else had an opinion or experience with one over the other. The way I see it:

2x Librarian: More natural for a DoA army, causes more deployment problems for the enemy with Blood Lance, can't get picked off by ranged weapons while in a unit, two Force Swords and Psychic hoods. 

Mephiston: A better natural assassin against ICs and MCs (which may give the rest of my list problems), more wounds and attacks then both libbys, better chance of a kill with the Force Sword, armor save and T6 can shrug off krak missiles, more of a psychological game changer.

Mephiston almost seems like a no-brainer, but his big drawback is I have no way to reserve him. He'll have to start on the board, all by his lonesome more often than not. That will mean hiding him out of LOS in probably a less than ideal location. What do you think?


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

well...if you want to DoA then mephiston wouldnt work very well unless you had a drop pod or storm raven. in general i think 2 libbys would be scarier if shield and blood lance were on each. 5+ cover save the turn you drop down or blood lance lots of tanks/units.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Go with the Librarians, they're much more synergistic in your army than Mephiston is. All Mephiston does is beat face, he doesn't offer a DoA army much else. With the pair of Librarians you get twice the psychic hood coverage, two blood lances and two shields (that cover save is _key_).

That being said, DoA is an army that struggles mightily in certain matchups so I'd be careful if I were you. Some armies are going to be extremely difficult to beat no matter which HQ you choose to take.


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## Azrell (Jul 16, 2010)

2 libbys unless you want to bring Mephy down in a stormraven or start him on the table. Mephy doesn't have the DOA rule and there isn't a way to get it to him.

He does have a psychic power that lets him move as jump infantry, but only BAs with "jump packs" as wargear get the rule, and he has to be on the board to cast it.


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## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

Katie Drake said:


> That being said, DoA is an army that struggles mightily in certain matchups so I'd be careful if I were you. Some armies are going to be extremely difficult to beat no matter which HQ you choose to take.


Yeah, this army is my answer to mech spam. Go ahead and try to table 50 marines with 4 FNP bubbles, 2 Shield 5+ cover bubbles, and a unit of 2+ Sanguinary Guards. I may not win every game but I'll never go down easily. 

I've come to the same conclusion as the consensus here. Mephiston offers a lot on paper, but just wouldn't work well with the army. 

Now I just have to decide if I want to run two Lance/Shield libbys or give one another power like Fear of the Darkness. Fear could really mess with gunline armies and Devestators by keeping them away from their home edge. Nobody wants to fail that check and get sent off the board if they fall back to the map edge. But fortunately that's not a modelling decision.


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## dbgoldberg323 (Sep 10, 2010)

Hey, the imagery could be cool, Mephiston's there just chillin and calls down some hot DoA backup. 

In my experience, he kills at least three enemy units (of any kind) before he dies from cumulative wounds. Be smart with him, keep him in cover, keep him near those FNP bubbles, and he does amazing things. Aside from the fact that he'll be a huge psychological threat to your opponent, he really is capable of dealing with most of your opponent's army by himself. Don't send him at the Deathstar, send him at the rest of their army where he'll do the most damage and wipe out units you'd have to deal with later. Yes, deploy him out of LOS if possible, but at least keep him in cover.

However, since you're trying to make a DoA list, don't bring him. Use the Librarians, they'll be more synergistic with the army.



ohiocat110 said:


> Now I just have to decide if I want to run two Lance/Shield libbys or give one another power...


I prefer Unleash Rage and Sanguine Sword.

Shield of Sanguinius is a cool power, but it only works 1/3rd of the time. Sure, it will statistically PREVENT 1/3rd of non-template casualties, but on the tabletop that *never* happens. It's just like rolling that 5+ Terminator Invulnerable save. Not gonna happen reliably enough to waste a slot for that power.

And Blood Lance is also not one of my favorites. 4d6" statistically equates to 14", and so far that's been about right in my games. However, cover plays a huge part in defending against the purpose of this power. If you're coming down and using Blood Lance against one vehicle, then you're not getting the most bang for your buck. If you're using it against multiple vehicles in close proximity then every vehicle past the first is probably getting cover. It's a really cool power in concept, but it doesn't (or at least _hasn't_ for me) translate well to the table.

As for my preferences on powers, I prefer Unleash Rage and Sanguine Sword.

Unleash Rage is cool because you get to re-roll hits for the Librarian AND his unit, in both your turn AND the opponent's turn. Sure the Librarian is no Chaplain, but having Preferred Enemy almost every combat phase turns any unit into something a little more scary. I've lost track of how many combats I've won with that power, that led to game wins.

Sanguine Sword lets you kill vehicles/walkers or high-toughness creatures if you need to/have to. Also, it's easier to cause Instant Death to T5 or weaker models over trying to pull off the Force Sword ability. Wounding on 2's that are double the target's toughness is a lot more feasible than wounding on 4's or even 5's and then passing the Psychic Test to cause Instant Death (it's not the test that's hard, it's the wounding on 4's or 5's).

These are just my personal preference, and if you really enjoy the powers you use more, then by all means keep using them. I'm just trying to help provide options and perspective!

Good luck!


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## Toten (Dec 26, 2008)

I´d go with 2 librarians, simply because they bring more utility, in Shield of Sanginius, and unleash rage / Blood Lance / Sword etc.

Taking Shiled is a must, really, you cant always get cover saves on your marines, and saving 1/3rd of them is really nice. Saying 5+ isnt reliable enough, is bullshit. Its far better than 0 chance. a billion times better actually.
And you should bring firepower in your army to take down big MC`s, or have a dedicated close combat unit, like Sanguinary Guard who charge in. Or a Dedicated Melta squad, Honor Guard, or a combat squad with 2 meltas and a sergeant with power fist, chances are you die, yes. But melta is one of the best anti-AMAGAWDIMGETTINGRAEPD! units in the game. Termies? ok 3+, bolter fire them down,force an enormous amount of saves, and the "reliable" 2+ rolls more 1´s than he wishes. 

If you need to assault a vechile to destroy it, there is something fundamentally wrong with your list, and YOU DONT ASSAULT Dreadnoughts, you kill the bastards with everything you´ve got. Meltas, Missile Launchers, whatnot. just bring the firepower.

Unleash Rage is not THE best power, but its far from the worst, rerolls may save you, rerolls may kill you. When a 5 or 10 man squad assaults a squad from a exploded rhino, what you you want: 1: Kill them 2: Stay in combat, and kill them next turn.
2. Why? Well if you dont kill them asap, that means you cant be shot at, which means that either you enemy has to dedicate another unit to peel you off, or sacrifice that unit, and your unit can go over and bring another unit a bad day.

Blood Lance: My personal favourite, simply because its reliable, and better than a melta, cuz it takes down several vechiles. "Cover Saves?" well, thats a 4+, and that is 50%, if you hit 2 vechiles you got a ´100%´chance to get one through, now I know that math is bullshit, but you get the point. Its also hilarious to send through a bunch of units, causing each to take a cover save, on a single wound. Things are gonna die of that, simply because they cant save EVERY cover save there is 

What Mephiston brings is nothing short o one model of solo asskicking, that bastard can kill anything and anyone if he so wishes, simply because he is badass. But he aint worth his points, not from a competitive standing point. When meeting a competitive list, he´ll either be gunned down before he can munch though a unit, or after he munches through a unit. And if you want him to live all the way you got to lag him behind you so he has the cover save from the other models. Or hide him outside LOS, which generally means hamstringing him.

oh well, Best of luck


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## dbgoldberg323 (Sep 10, 2010)

:biggrin:

Lol, I was simply offering sound advice based off of actual experience. I have played hundreds of games with my Blood Angels, against many competent generals with tournament-quality lists. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to say I'm "100% right" or that I'm "zomg the greatest evar", just that I'm offering a valid opinion based on plenty of games, as opposed to strongly-worded theory-hammer.

I believe I said things like "I prefer power X", "Power Y isn't one of my favorites", and "Power Z is cool because". I never said any one is "THE best power", just that I have discovered what works for me and what helps me win games.

Also, though it's cute to say "if you're assaulting vehicles then there's something fundamentally wrong with your list" and "YOU DONT ASSAULT Dreadnoughts", have you actually tried playing against lists with dreadnoughts in them with good generals behind them? Getting into combat with them is sometimes not a choice, especially against great players. Sometimes, you find yourself in an unlucky situation such as in combat with a walker. It happens. I believe I said something to the effect of "Sanguine Sword is great to use on Walkers/MC's if you have/need to", and not "ZOMG CHARGE WALKERS WITH SANGUINE SWORD BLARG!!!!!11!1!!!one!11!". 

Chillax and just look at how I said what I said. After all, I'm just offering advice to a fellow BA player!


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

I enjoy running Mephiston right behind his Honor Guard w/ JP. They give him a cover save, FNP, and FC. Fucks people up when he goes at I8 and is S7.


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