# what is the most powerful unit 1v1 on the table top?



## DK1 (Nov 16, 2011)

Just as the title says, if it came down to one model, IDC, Vehicle, hero...who could take on any one other model and reliably win (dependent of dice of course)

This using normal combat, as if deploying a whole game to solve this question I.E. two named units fight it out as if an annihilation match with DS from reserve and so forth.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

From the base ruleset (not counting Forgeworld or Apoc) I'd have to say Metiphiston has to be one of the best if not the best in terms of sheer power in a single model.


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## DK1 (Nov 16, 2011)

yea but isn't he the one that casts 3 powers per turn, that's a lot of chance to hit POTW.


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

Skulltaker. I'd happily put him into combat with any other character.


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## DK1 (Nov 16, 2011)

Wouldn't GK Crowe take him on?


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

Eldrad, eat my 3+ rerollable invulnerable save while I whittle you down with two attacks from my wound on 2+ (and reroll to wound) power weapon. Perils of the warp? It can choke on my ghosthelm and 3+ invul. What if my power some how fails even with runes of witnessing? I'll do it again, staff of Ulthanesh! Oh and mind war, mustn't forget mind war...


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Can't discount the Swarmlord. Inflicts instant death, monstrous creature, nice invulnerable save, gets rerolls on virtually everything he does, and plenty of psychic powers to boot.

(Skulltaker couldn't do crap to most vehicles)


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

DK1 said:


> Wouldn't GK Crowe take him on?


My money would still be on taker. Rending instant death on a 4+? Beat that crowe, with your close combat weapon of ultimate fail.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

DK1 said:


> yea but isn't he the one that casts 3 powers per turn, that's a lot of chance to hit POTW.


Even with the testing he's Leadership is 10, and without the powers he's running 7s over most of his stat blocks and can't be instant deathed by high strength attacks (T6). On the other hand low AP weapons and power weapons make him die pretty fast.

For fun Celestine can be hilarious to field since she's suprisingly hard to kill with her 2+/4++ and popping back up on a 4+ with D3 wounds drives some players nuts. She's not the most powerful thing ever, but it can be hilarious to field her sometimes.


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

Isn't there one GK who always comes back to life? What about him?


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

It's a WH character, Saint Celestine. I'm not sure if she can stop vehicles though.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Samules said:


> Isn't there one GK who always comes back to life? What about him?


Justicar Thrawn. He's a squad upgrade who rocks some extra stuff (as well as T/S4) but is cheaper than Celestine (who may not be an independent character..that's not clear thanks to the split codex).



mynameisgrax said:


> It's a WH character, Saint Celestine. I'm not sure if she can stop vehicles though.


In the current White Dwarf Codex she has Krak Grenades so she can, but not very effectively. 

Personally I think it'd be more fun to see her having the Monsterous Creature rules to represent the powers of a living saint (just so she can tear into tanks bare-handed).


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## DK1 (Nov 16, 2011)

that Jusicar Thowrn that comes back to life. he would take out just about any daemon he faces


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## DK1 (Nov 16, 2011)

mynameisgrax said:


> It's a WH character, Saint Celestine. I'm not sure if she can stop vehicles though.


she gets melta bombs, and always wounds on a 4+ at I7


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

DK1 said:


> she gets melta bombs, and always wounds on a 4+ at I7


She can't get melta bombs anymore. She's locked with frag and krak grenades. I know a lot of people like to bring up the Witch Hunters codex but GW has offically replaced that with the White Dwarf codex (like it or not). 

Besides, her new resurrection rules are better than her old ones because she can keep trying to get up(turning getting tabled into a hilarious game of Bop-a-Saint (ala Bop-a-Mole)).


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

Grax, Samules, there is an obvious way to settle this question...


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

id put kharn up there, hitting on twos I6 on the charge with...7 attacks(i think)...and is the ORIGINAL mini-MC - unlike that one vampire one


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## Routine (Sep 25, 2011)

Vehicles aside, Asdrubael Vect is a threat to anyone on the board. hits with 7 attacks on the charge, wounds on 3+ with a power weapon, hits most things on 3+ and re-rolls to hit (against everyone), hits at Initiative 8, has a 2+ invulnerable save (until it fails, but if it fails the user is probably dead anyway)


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I'd say the Swarmlord. One on one, he will beat just about anyone. He is a character killer, pure and simple. Abaddon can beat face on some other units, granted, but the big Nid is the winner here.

Of course, with luck, the Doom is a badass anti-anything machine.

Midnight


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Njal Stormcaller. I always win my Clash of Heroes battles with him, JOTWW will kill any enemy within six turns :laugh:. Swarmlord seemed like the second best option, because he's great at killing any character w/o EW. He also has T6 and a 4++in CC to boot.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Fully upgraded necron overlord, Has a load of attacks is super survivable and on average you attack yourself.


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## MidnightKid333 (Feb 2, 2011)

Swarmlord would kill all.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

The Sanguinor.... Or, an Emperor Class Titan.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

aboytervigon said:


> Fully upgraded necron overlord, Has a load of attacks is super survivable and on average you attack yourself.


This. +1

Anybody heard of Mindshackle Scarabs? All that power your attacks deal would just be going into yourself. That and the infamous 2+/3++/4+++ save he has. And S7 power weapon. And the power to suck you into a Tessarect Labyrinth,.

It USED to be the old C'tan, ignoring invulnerable saves, the Deceiver or Nightbringer would own all. (probs Deceiver with I5). The new ones wouldn't even come close.


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## HUMYN HYBRID (Aug 9, 2011)

lol, my lil brother is reading this, and he is screaming nightbringer.... so for my brothers choice, nightbringer. for my choice, hmmmm. its tough to say, but id prob go swarmlord, only cus i dont know much bout any other race besides tau.... but for the epicness of my fail, WARLORD WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!


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## Durandal (Sep 18, 2011)

Draigo


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Easily the Swarmlord or Eldrad.

Nothing comes close. All you Ward-rons need to read other codices.

Jus' Sayin'


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

I've done the mathhammer vs a swarmlord and the lord owned it.


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## DK1 (Nov 16, 2011)

i said it earlyer, but all the inv saves getting thrown out there, a Vindicar Assassin can remove an INV save for the rest of the game on a 4+, his BS is 8, one round he uses wounds on a 2+, the round is AP1 for all shots, and he can use 4D6 vs vehicles...if even Drago gets hit and drops his INV save hes takin a wound every turn till hes dead. the Assassins range is 36 so that's at a min 3 turns of shots if you have los.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

Orochi said:


> Easily the Swarmlord or Eldrad.
> 
> Nothing comes close. All you Ward-rons need to read other codices.
> 
> Jus' Sayin'


Mindshackle Scarabs. :laugh: I'd like to see you consistently pass Leadership on 3D6 or all that killiness will go out the window as you hit yourself.

PLUS the Lord is one of the toughest, if not THE toughest, model in the game. He can afford to sit and wait until you fail Mindshackle, all the while hitting you with S7 power weapon...

As for the Vindicare, this is true, but for how long can you run? :biggrin:


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## DK1 (Nov 16, 2011)

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> Mindshackle Scarabs. :laugh: I'd like to see you consistently pass Leadership on 3D6 or all that killiness will go out the window as you hit yourself.
> 
> PLUS the Lord is one of the toughest, if not THE toughest, model in the game. He can afford to sit and wait until you fail Mindshackle, all the while hitting you with S7 power weapon...
> 
> As for the Vindicare, this is true, but for how long can you run? :biggrin:



well he can run and shoot at the same time...but true...cant run forever.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

He actually can't suprisingly.


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## DK1 (Nov 16, 2011)

he can, he has a pistol that fires the same rounds, so 12 moving, and 36 stationary.


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

Necron Overlord
Phaeron
Warscythe
Phylatery
Mindshackle Scarabs
Sempiternal Weave
Tesseract Labyrynth
Tachyon Arrow
Ressurection Orb
Phase Shifter
Vs
Eldrad Ulthuan

Using the same combat order as my most recent games.
Round 1: The tachyon Arrow fails to pierce the rune armor and Eldrad successfully uses fortune and mind war twice. The lords head explodes. He does not get back up.

Round 2: Fortune goes off fine and the two mind wars are resisted. Tachyon arrow is ignored. Eldrad Charges and wounds the overlord twice (passing the scarab test). The overlord hits once and fails to pierce the armor. The tachyon arrow is ignored again. Fortune goes off and mind war is resisted. Eldrad is mindshackled but remains unwounded by himself or the lord. Mind war finally works and the lord's head explodes. He fails reanimation.

Round 3: Tachyon arrow misses, fortune goes off and mind war does 2 wounds. The lord does nothing but Eldrad is mindshackled. However he laughs at his own pitiful efforts at suicide. Mind war does nothing, the arrow misses and eldrad charges. No damage is dealt. Shooting does nothing. Eldrad thwacks the lord. He gets up with two wounds right after eldrads shooting phase. After about 12 more rounds of this stuff eldrad FINALLY fails a save and is killed by the tachyon arrow.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

All that equipment to beat one old man.

What are the numbers cost to cost? As I know Eldrads, but not the silver space marines of the non-grey type.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Tell me If im wrong but doesn't mind war allow the 3+ invunrable that the Lord has and also on AVERAGE Eldrard fails the test. Plus I thought you thought the Vindicare could run and shoot at the same time.


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## Sothot (Jul 22, 2011)

My Necron Overlord got raped by a librarian in his first game. Dice may have been against me, but all that gear counts for crap when a force weapon instant deaths you. I would hardly consider an Overlord contender for most killy 1v1.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Tyranid Heirophant Bio-Titan. Those things are near impossible to kill without wasting 2000+ points on it.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

Sothot said:


> My Necron Overlord got raped by a librarian in his first game. Dice may have been against me, but all that gear counts for crap when a force weapon instant deaths you. I would hardly consider an Overlord contender for most killy 1v1.


Did you use a Res Orb? Reanimation protocols can be used regardless of how you died these days. My Lord got force weaponed twice. :laugh:

Eldrad appears to be a bad example seeing as he can't really kill himself and uses psychic powers. The Overlord is good vs killy opponents, not sneaky ones. :biggrin:


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

meh its on average its one wound and on average the lord will save the Mind war.


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

The Sanginour is pretty much a Character Killer. I believe he can re-roll failed Hit, Wound and Armor saves, has Power Weapon (With reroll I believe as it's MC) and has 5 attacks. He also can buff any Sergeant in the game with some extra stats, turning them into mini-heroes of their own. Even Abbadon has to be careful near him.

Mephiston is pretty powerful, if you assume he passes his 3 power tests.

Skulltaker is often known as one of the best.

Eldrad.

Overlords.

Swarmlords.

However, I prefer fun characters, rather than out and out super death star ones. Inquistor Karamazov and Inquisitor Valeria are fun characters, not to mention Inquisitor Karamazov looks ace!

Celestine is also a pretty awesome looking and playing character, so fun to just go "Oh, look at that, you spent a turn killing her... and she's right back up again!"


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

aboytervigon said:


> meh its on average its one wound and on average the lord will save the Mind war.


You forget, on average this was normal. 5 wounds out of close to forty mind wars is BELOW average even.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

But we have the same leadership so on average it will be a draw.


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

Let's see, 5 wounds dealt is 15 before saves and with 35 mind wars on average there is a 50/50 of one of us rolling higher (aprox) so that IS below average.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Samules, put Eldrad up against the Sanguinor.... I'm curious who would win using your combat rolling.


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

The Sanguinor
Vs
Eldrad

Well over sixty turns in total. Final score: Eldrad 2-Sanguinor 1


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

Surprised know one has mentioned Bystander (i mean Lysander). Strength 10 master crafted thunder hammer, 4 wounds, 2+ / 3++. He tends to take characters out easily IMO. Especially since after round 1 of the fight the enemy will end up the same iniative as him.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> PLUS the Lord is one of the toughest, if not THE toughest, model in the game. He can afford to sit and wait until you fail Mindshackle, all the while hitting you with S7 power weapon...


Swarmlord hacks you to death then just stands on your token so you cannot resurrect, job done. Assuming you mount your Swarmlord on a suitably Swarmlordy base.

The Sanguinor only loses to Eldrad if he stands there and takes it, in combat Eldrad will get killed even with his fortuned save, he's only got one attack after all.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

What about 30 Death Company tooled up?

That is, after all, 1 unit.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

30 Death Company with Dual Thunderhammers, Jump Packs and Lematres. That's 120 Thunderhammer attacks on the charge re-rolling to hit and wound, less what you kill of course. A cool 3000 points there as well.

But I think the OP means single model sadly.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I do love how Overlords can potentially make any enemy hit themselves - if Lysander isn't Eternal Warrior then it would be a very short fight.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Yeah I think we might see an errata to Mindshackle Scarabs to mean the hits cannot be allocated to the victim. But for now we have Overlords running up to the Swarmlord shouting 'Why are you hitting yourself, you should stop hitting yourself!'


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

I think a furioso librarian needs a vote in here as well. They can be extremely difficult to kill and can pack a punch.


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