# Tyrannofex - Do we ignore him from the new book. Debate :D



## H0RRIDF0RM

Alright so there's alot of naysaying about the Tyrannofex. Is it because it doesn't have a cool model like the Trygon or do we dislike him because he's a little kids wet dream to convert grimlock from transformers into a Tyranid.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyhow lets really look at its stats lines for its point cost.

The Tyrannofex starts at a pretty hefty price of equivelent to a Tyrgon Prime with Adrenal Glands.

In comparison the Trygon Prime has +3 WS +3 I +3 A +2 LD over the Tyrannofex.
The Tyranofex only walks away with a +1 SV in difference. 

This tells me that the Tyrannofex at a glance it numerically inferior to a Trygon, but can probably last longer due to the 2+ save.

Now lets not Forget cover. There's no model for the Tyrannofex so I plan to just bulk up my Carnifex to have a bigger Venom Cannon, Extra Spinerows, and other stupid apandages.

Now the Trygon is not going to see cover unless he's very very lucky or next to a Venomthrope, but my Tyrannofex will.

Fortunately this is where I want him since he will be shooting shooting shooting.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

On to Bio-Stuff

The Trygon Prime has a crap load of 18 Inch Str5 assualt shots and can reroll failed to hits + failed to wounds against T6 or less aka Adrenal Glands. So he can deal some serious damage in close combat and reroll against moving vehicles that he can catch.

The Tyrannofex has some loadout options but lets begin with my favorite.

Capsule Cannon (german name) We get 2 Str 10 shots at 48". Nothing else in our book has this type or range at that level of Str in our book, but he's no becoming more expansive then our Trygon Prime.

Our Tyrannofex will also come with Thorn Volley, and a choice between 3 difference flamers that cover alot of situations. This means our Tyrranofex is total garbage at dealing with light infantry.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now at a glance the Trygon Prime is superior in almost all regards. It has synapse, is faster, can reliable deal with infantry at a range and close combat, and can wreck vehicles in close combat.

While the Tyrannofex has more survivability and an answer to ranged AV against mobile armies.

Does anyone think its fucking worth it???


----------



## Dies Irae

The point is that they don't have the same role at all. The Trygon is here to kill heavy infantry and transport/close range vehicles, whereas the Tyrranofex provides some long-range firepower, and will deal with IG Artillery, Fire Prisms, and every other vehicules staying in the back lines. 

Just consider a Tyrranofex in cover, and with Regeneration. That's a T6 W6 2+Save/4+cover and if you manage to wound him he regenerate on a 6. Oh and, IIRC, Tervigons can give FNP to a unit around 12". 
Then give this thing a 48" Assault(or Heavy, I don't remember, but anyway as it is on a MC it doesn't matter) 2 S10 weapon, which is perfect to deal with vehicles, even those with protections (I'm thinking about Eldar skimmers), as these 2 shots will be more effective than the AP1 of Tau Railgun (and don't forget that the Tyrranofex can move, and not only 1D6)

If i was playing nids, i would definitely add a Tyrranofex to my army


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

No, not at all. It's just an excuse to convince the younger little morons to buy the trygon and carnifex kit to convert it. It's ridiculously overpriced and adds nothing new except a S10 48" 2 shot weapon (at BS 3) and a bunch of flamers.

Yes long ranged anti-AV13+ weapons are nice, but for for the cost of 53 Termagants? No thanks.


----------



## Tim/Steve

Nids dont do long range firepower... so since this long range firepower in a nid list it is understandable very much overcosted: if you feel you must have something that doesnt suit the style of your army then you should be paying through the nose for it.

Personally, while Ive seen why its been costed as it has, I cant see anyone actually taking one... its just far too expensive an option. What I dont understand is not having the capsule cannon as standard equipment; the other weaponry just isnt worth it. If the starting 'hellhound' type flamer was AP3 then it would be a decent sweeper model to clear the table (especially if it could either switch between the secondary weapons each turn or choose at the start of each game), but as it is without the S10 its just unimportant... and anything that apporoaching 300pts that isnt worrying the hell out of the opponent is doing something wrong).


----------



## flankman

yeah. i was trying to justify this unit also (even excluding how painful hed be on your whallet_ but for 250+ points id much rather have a mawlock/trygon or a carnifex in a pod


----------



## flankman

and just for the record (pro me wrong if i am  ) toxin sacs puts your attacks at poison +4 so your not gona get 2+ to wound AND rerolls it will be 4+ to wound with rerolls


----------



## SHarrington

I can see no reason to justify playing with him unless you have used up all your elite slots.
Here's why:

3 Zoanthropes and a Spore Pod are ~50 points less then a tyrannofex.
They have the same number of wounds(6 total), an invulnerable save, and synapse.
They have a better ballistic skill and will fire more str 10 shots per turn (with lance and AP 1 at that!) Thats about a billion times more effective against vehicles (and anything with a 3+ or better save)

So unless I've used up all my Zoey slots, I just can't see any advantage of the tyranno.


----------



## Arkanor

SHarrington said:


> So unless I've used up all my Zoey slots, I just can't see any advantage of the tyranno.


Being in range of their tank means you're possibly also in range of a Psychic hood, Zoanthropes use psychic powers to fire.

It suddenly becomes a lot less good when half the time you're getting your AT guns shutdown, so they only actually HIT (never mind the damage) 1/3 of the time.


----------



## MaidenManiac

Arkanor said:


> Being in range of their tank means you're possibly also in range of a Psychic hood, Zoanthropes use psychic powers to fire.
> 
> It suddenly becomes a lot less good when half the time you're getting your AT guns shutdown, so they only actually HIT (never mind the damage) 1/3 of the time.


Completely agree with this detail, as I wrote in another thread that derailed into T-Fex vs Zoanthrope discussion instead.

Im not, by any means, saying that Zoanthropes are bad. Im just sceptical that they will actually be _that_ good as everyone wants them to be.
They cant walk across the board, theyll die if they try, so the Gnoffpod is the solution. 
This means that they can not fire turn 1 at all. Presuming that you pump more points into +2 on the reserves roll they 5/6 come into play turn 2, and hopefully do not scatter to hell somewhere. After Psycic Hoods (which WILL be everywhere), to hit rolls, AP rolls youre left with roughly 1 4+ roll to smoke your target. You pay at least 220 (plus at least part of the cost of things giving you better reserve rolls, and Gnoffpod upgrades) pts for it, against a LR you gain some points yea, but those brainbugs are dead the turn after. They are as tough against normal rapid fire weapons as 6 SM...

The more I look at the Zoanthropes the more my mind changes from first impression (CHEESE!!!1!one!) to a balanced unit. They are lethal, but hard to give the right chance to shine and its probably harder to make them survive the game.


The T-Fex costs more yea, 295 most likely with Spore Capsel Cannon and Reg. He shots with 1 less BS and no + on the damagechart, but can not have his gun "dispelled", will shoot turn 1, wont fail his reserve roll, and wont scatter out of range. He will also much more likely survive the game thanks to great save, reg and MC stats. 

He is a more "sure bet" then the "Zoanthrope Gamble", suicide units are always cheaper then units lasting the whole game. Then again there is the S9 heavy Venom Cannon for "suppressive AT" until a MC reaches the bad LRBT(or similar) which at least should be marginally included in AV13+ AT thinking:read:


----------



## H0RRIDF0RM

SHarrington said:


> I can see no reason to justify playing with him unless you have used up all your elite slots.
> Here's why:
> 
> 3 Zoanthropes and a Spore Pod are ~50 points less then a tyrannofex.
> They have the same number of wounds(6 total), an invulnerable save, and synapse.
> They have a better ballistic skill and will fire more str 10 shots per turn (with lance and AP 1 at that!) Thats about a billion times more effective against vehicles (and anything with a 3+ or better save)
> 
> So unless I've used up all my Zoey slots, I just can't see any advantage of the tyranno.


You fail to grasp the difference.

Zoanthrope cannot be used 1st turn, has a 50% chance to arrive 2nd turn, +% increase each turn. When they drop you then have to roll 3 Psychic Tests, followed by 3 BS 4 Hits, and then 3+ to Pen, and a 4+ to destroy vehicle. 

Now lets examine the following armies.

Space Marines = Psychic Hood 4+ to negate.
Imperial Guard = Thats alright you nuked our 130 Vendetta now we wipe your 220 point unit off the map.
Orks = OMG you blew up our 35 point truck.
Eldar = Try making those tests on 3d6 and then if you manage to inch through enjoy your Str 8 shot.
Tyranids = Shadow in the Wap + Monstrous Creature as our Target = Fail!
Chaos = You got them good.

etc etc etc

Now our faithful Tyrannofex lol I cannot even believe I'm saying this... Can sit in cover and launch 2 Str 10 Shots at 48 Inches from turn 1-5. He never needs to leave cover to do his job so he's effectively T6 W6 2+ Save 4+ Cover.


----------



## H0RRIDF0RM

MaidenManiac said:


> Completely agree with this detail, as I wrote in another thread that derailed into T-Fex vs Zoanthrope discussion instead.
> 
> Im not, by any means, saying that Zoanthropes are bad. Im just sceptical that they will actually be _that_ good as everyone wants them to be.
> They cant walk across the board, theyll die if they try, so the Gnoffpod is the solution.
> This means that they can not fire turn 1 at all. Presuming that you pump more points into +2 on the reserves roll they 5/6 come into play turn 2, and hopefully do not scatter to hell somewhere. After Psycic Hoods (which WILL be everywhere), to hit rolls, AP rolls youre left with roughly 1 4+ roll to smoke your target. You pay at least 220 (plus at least part of the cost of things giving you better reserve rolls, and Gnoffpod upgrades) pts for it, against a LR you gain some points yea, but those brainbugs are dead the turn after. They are as tough against normal rapid fire weapons as 6 SM...
> 
> The more I look at the Zoanthropes the more my mind changes from first impression (CHEESE!!!1!one!) to a balanced unit. They are lethal, but hard to give the right chance to shine and its probably harder to make them survive the game.
> 
> 
> The T-Fex costs more yea, 295 most likely with Spore Capsel Cannon and Reg. He shots with 1 less BS and no + on the damagechart, but can not have his gun "dispelled", will shoot turn 1, wont fail his reserve roll, and wont scatter out of range. He will also much more likely survive the game thanks to great save, reg and MC stats.
> 
> He is a more "sure bet" then the "Zoanthrope Gamble", suicide units are always cheaper then units lasting the whole game. Then again there is the S9 heavy Venom Cannon for "suppressive AT" until a MC reaches the bad LRBT(or similar) which at least should be marginally included in AV13+ AT thinking:read:


Off topic but who sais Zoanthrope cannot walk the field??? We've been walking them for 8 years now minus BS4, Lance, Ap1, all for reduced cost. I dont ever plan to drop pod mine. Let my enemy since Heavy Weapons into a 3+ invulnerable just because they might splat, that just means something else makes it to where I want it to go.


----------



## SHarrington

*shrugs* just my opinion, influenced by the type of lists I play. (Majority DS/outflank @ 1000 points or less.)

I can see the reasoning as the other posters have stated.

I'm not so convinced about psychic hood fears though, as most marine armies I've played against don't take a psyker in favor of some Uber Special Character or spend the points on a Land Raider Crusader. Mech is very popular in my area.

But yes, I will conceed that IF they take a psyker, or if they are playing a metagame list designed to stop bugs, then the Fex is a better choice.


----------



## Tim/Steve

I doubt many people will try to ID zoanthropes, the 3++ save is just too good at stopping the high strength shooting, unless you had them in cover (ok most people would have) then zoe's have become harder for AP2 weaponry to kill (even with ID), instead I would expect anything S8+ to be trying to kill MCs, since nids can take so many there should pretty much always be 2-3 on the board at the very least (could have 17 in a 3k game.. not counting the DS spore thingies).
They are going to be more vulnerable to small arms fire but that is only a problem after you get in range to fire your own weapons, hopefully by then the enemy will have other things that are more pressing to care about.


----------



## H0RRIDF0RM

SHarrington said:


> *shrugs* just my opinion, influenced by the type of lists I play. (Majority DS/outflank @ 1000 points or less.)
> 
> I can see the reasoning as the other posters have stated.
> 
> I'm not so convinced about psychic hood fears though, as most marine armies I've played against don't take a psyker in favor of some Uber Special Character or spend the points on a Land Raider Crusader. Mech is very popular in my area.
> 
> But yes, I will conceed that IF they take a psyker, or if they are playing a metagame list designed to stop bugs, then the Fex is a better choice.


You did have a valid point in stating you wouldn't use them unless your elites were taken up. Tyrannofex may not be viable under 2000.


----------



## flankman

i'm pretty sure its better for them to just move foward instead of wussy sitting in cover i mean hes not rlly a big target having 6 wounds and all i would move him foward so that he can also use his second weapon and maby even crush things in melee


----------



## oblivion8

Well the fact is that any tyranid player will want to take at least one of the choices to effectivly deal with AV 14.

however everyone is saying you should only drop pod the thropes and I think thats ridiculous in some ways.
If you walk them up, you A: distract high strength shots B: have cover to hide behind as you walk up (potentailly) 
However if you drop pod them then chances are A:the enemy has a combat unit that can rape them, and can shoot their hvy guns at your MC's B:shoot them down with their hvy weapons, and you've only killed one tank.

In my opinion, I would rather walk them up the board and potentially distract/kill more than 1 tank, then use them as a nid version of tzeentch suicide flamers (albeit 200 odd points rather than 105)


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

I've gotta remember to check whether you *must* use the Landing Spore. If you can still walk it on, that opens up a world of flexiblity, for a not too steep price.


----------



## SHarrington

I'm heading down to my local store tomorrow to check the dex too. I didn't read the Landing Spore entry and now I'm curious if they have the "Drop Pod Assault" rule that space marines do. If they do, it might invalidate one of the arguments against drop podding Zoanthropes.


----------



## Arkanor

SHarrington said:


> I'm heading down to my local store tomorrow to check the dex too. I didn't read the Landing Spore entry and now I'm curious if they have the "Drop Pod Assault" rule that space marines do. If they do, it might invalidate one of the arguments against drop podding Zoanthropes.


Landing spores don't get DPA.


----------



## flankman

they do have the landing gear thingy (no mishap) and ya 40pt monstrous creatures are still pretty nasty even if you dont field the zoans IN it


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

If anyone wants to pay 265+ pts for a 2 shot S10 weapon at BS3, go for it. Personally I'm just gonna use my normal Trygon as an AV13+ hunter, or walk a few Zoanthropes up the field behind a couple of my carnifexes/Tervigons.


----------



## Katie Drake

After doing a lot of thinking and mathematical calculations, I've decided that the Tyrannofex just might turn out to be worth the significant investment in points.

*Tyrannofex*
- Capsule Cannon thing
- Regenerate
Pts: 295 ( :shok: )

Basically, it all comes down to sitting back and shooting at important targets every turn. This thing has a massive number of Wounds, a great Toughness value and an excellent armor save. It's also able to benefit from cover like any other Monstrous Creature, though it will admittedly take some luck to find an appropriate terrain piece for this purpose.

Since we're talking about a Monstrous Creature and not a tank, that means that there's no real way of stopping the Tyrannofex from shooting each and every turn bar killing it. There's no shaking/stunning it or blowing off its deadly weapon. This means that the enemy army needs to inflict six wounds over the course of five to seven turns. It doesn't _sound_ too hard, but I think it just might be.

Consider: the average number of lascannons in someone's army is probably two to four. Naturally some armies will have more, some less and some none at all (though they'll almost always have some type of equivalent). What matters is that the weapon has a range of at least 36", a Strength of no less than 8 and an AP of 2 or better.

Let's go with four lascannons being fired by Space Marines, but really this could work with units like Dark Eldar Warrior Squads with two dark lances each, or several units of Imperial Guard Veterans with lascannon heavy weapon teams or any other unit with the same BS.

Four lascannons should yield three hits and approximately three wounds per turn. If the Tyrannofex is in cover, only 1.5 of these will actually go through. For argument's sake we'll say the 'Fex fails two saves.

In the Tyranid player's turn, he rolls his regeneration dice. He has a 1/3 (I think?) chance of regenerating a wound. Let's say he fails.

Assuming that none of the lascannons have been silenced, they shoot the TyFex again. Let's say they score one more wound, reducing the TyFex to three wounds.

In the next Tyranid turn, the Tyrannofex _should_ regenerate a wound (since he's now rolling three dice this turn, he has a great chance of rolling a six, especially when we take into account the fact that he may have regenerated a wound last turn). For the hell of it, we'll assume he rolls a single 6 and regains one lost wound, so he's back up to four wounds.

Another four lascannon shots (assuming none have been killed or otherwise dealt with) will yield us another two wounds on average.

You see where I'm going with this? As long as there aren't any really amazing dice rolls going on, it'll take _ages_ to kill the Tyrannofex at range. The chances of an army being able to fire all of its lascannons (or whatever) each turn without interruption are slim at best considering the nature of the Tyranids new shooting capabilities. That means that the Tyrannofex will get to make a minimum of ten S10 shots over the course of a game (two per turn). That's _bound_ to hurt something.


----------



## H0RRIDF0RM

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> If anyone wants to pay 265+ pts for a 2 shot S10 weapon at BS3, go for it. Personally I'm just gonna use my normal Trygon as an AV13+ hunter, or walk a few Zoanthropes up the field behind a couple of my carnifexes/Tervigons.


Screw a couple of fexes Take a Trygon and a Tyrannofex!!!!



Katie Drake said:


> After doing a lot of thinking and mathematical calculations, I've decided that the Tyrannofex just might turn out to be worth the significant investment in points.
> 
> *Tyrannofex*
> - Capsule Cannon thing
> - Regenerate
> Pts: 295 ( :shok: )
> 
> Basically, it all comes down to sitting back and shooting at important targets every turn. This thing has a massive number of Wounds, a great Toughness value and an excellent armor save. It's also able to benefit from cover like any other Monstrous Creature, though it will admittedly take some luck to find an appropriate terrain piece for this purpose.
> 
> Since we're talking about a Monstrous Creature and not a tank, that means that there's no real way of stopping the Tyrannofex from shooting each and every turn bar killing it. There's no shaking/stunning it or blowing off its deadly weapon. This means that the enemy army needs to inflict six wounds over the course of five to seven turns. It doesn't _sound_ too hard, but I think it just might be.
> 
> Consider: the average number of lascannons in someone's army is probably two to four. Naturally some armies will have more, some less and some none at all (though they'll almost always have some type of equivalent). What matters is that the weapon has a range of at least 36", a Strength of no less than 8 and an AP of 2 or better.
> 
> Let's go with four lascannons being fired by Space Marines, but really this could work with units like Dark Eldar Warrior Squads with two dark lances each, or several units of Imperial Guard Veterans with lascannon heavy weapon teams or any other unit with the same BS.
> 
> Four lascannons should yield three hits and approximately three wounds per turn. If the Tyrannofex is in cover, only 1.5 of these will actually go through. For argument's sake we'll say the 'Fex fails two saves.
> 
> In the Tyranid player's turn, he rolls his regeneration dice. He has a 1/3 (I think?) chance of regenerating a wound. Let's say he fails.
> 
> Assuming that none of the lascannons have been silenced, they shoot the TyFex again. Let's say they score one more wound, reducing the TyFex to three wounds.
> 
> In the next Tyranid turn, the Tyrannofex _should_ regenerate a wound (since he's now rolling three dice this turn, he has a great chance of rolling a six, especially when we take into account the fact that he may have regenerated a wound last turn). For the hell of it, we'll assume he rolls a single 6 and regains one lost wound, so he's back up to four wounds.
> 
> Another four lascannon shots (assuming none have been killed or otherwise dealt with) will yield us another two wounds on average.
> 
> You see where I'm going with this? As long as there aren't any really amazing dice rolls going on, it'll take _ages_ to kill the Tyrannofex at range. The chances of an army being able to fire all of its lascannons (or whatever) each turn without interruption are slim at best considering the nature of the Tyranids new shooting capabilities. That means that the Tyrannofex will get to make a minimum of ten S10 shots over the course of a game (two per turn). That's _bound_ to hurt something.


Swoons!


----------



## NagashKhemmler

Katie Drake said:


> After doing a lot of thinking and mathematical calculations, I've decided that the Tyrannofex just might turn out to be worth the significant investment in points.
> 
> *Tyrannofex*
> - Capsule Cannon thing
> - Regenerate
> Pts: 295 ( :shok: )
> 
> Basically, it all comes down to sitting back and shooting at important targets every turn. This thing has a massive number of Wounds, a great Toughness value and an excellent armor save. It's also able to benefit from cover like any other Monstrous Creature, though it will admittedly take some luck to find an appropriate terrain piece for this purpose.
> 
> Since we're talking about a Monstrous Creature and not a tank, that means that there's no real way of stopping the Tyrannofex from shooting each and every turn bar killing it. There's no shaking/stunning it or blowing off its deadly weapon. This means that the enemy army needs to inflict six wounds over the course of five to seven turns. It doesn't _sound_ too hard, but I think it just might be.
> 
> Consider: the average number of lascannons in someone's army is probably two to four. Naturally some armies will have more, some less and some none at all (though they'll almost always have some type of equivalent). What matters is that the weapon has a range of at least 36", a Strength of no less than 8 and an AP of 2 or better.
> 
> Let's go with four lascannons being fired by Space Marines, but really this could work with units like Dark Eldar Warrior Squads with two dark lances each, or several units of Imperial Guard Veterans with lascannon heavy weapon teams or any other unit with the same BS.
> 
> Four lascannons should yield three hits and approximately three wounds per turn. If the Tyrannofex is in cover, only 1.5 of these will actually go through. For argument's sake we'll say the 'Fex fails two saves.
> 
> In the Tyranid player's turn, he rolls his regeneration dice. He has a 1/3 (I think?) chance of regenerating a wound. Let's say he fails.
> 
> Assuming that none of the lascannons have been silenced, they shoot the TyFex again. Let's say they score one more wound, reducing the TyFex to three wounds.
> 
> In the next Tyranid turn, the Tyrannofex _should_ regenerate a wound (since he's now rolling three dice this turn, he has a great chance of rolling a six, especially when we take into account the fact that he may have regenerated a wound last turn). For the hell of it, we'll assume he rolls a single 6 and regains one lost wound, so he's back up to four wounds.
> 
> Another four lascannon shots (assuming none have been killed or otherwise dealt with) will yield us another two wounds on average.
> 
> You see where I'm going with this? As long as there aren't any really amazing dice rolls going on, it'll take _ages_ to kill the Tyrannofex at range. The chances of an army being able to fire all of its lascannons (or whatever) each turn without interruption are slim at best considering the nature of the Tyranids new shooting capabilities. That means that the Tyrannofex will get to make a minimum of ten S10 shots over the course of a game (two per turn). That's _bound_ to hurt something.


What if they use a leman russ executioner and kill it in a turn .


----------



## oblivion8

can the pod move or assault?? that would be the most amazing thing ever, but if it cant whats the point of it being a MC? or am I missing something?


----------



## H0RRIDF0RM

oblivion8 said:


> can the pod move or assault?? that would be the most amazing thing ever, but if it cant whats the point of it being a MC? or am I missing something?


The pod isn't really that awsome. Its WS2 BS2 so its shooting is crap, and nobody is going to assualt it unless you configure your Zoanthrope, Carnifex, or whatever so that its nigh unavoidable to hit the Mycetic Spores Base.

Its also low toughness and armor save so more then likely it will shoot shoot miss until something kills it, but!!!!!!!!!

If you pay 10 more points for it you get a TL Death Spitter and can take pop shots at rear armor for what its worth lol. Might even be viable. Maybe the pod should have its own thread! k:


----------



## Katie Drake

NagashKhemmler said:


> What if they use a leman russ executioner and kill it in a turn .


What if they get a unit of 50 Conscripts in range and use First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire! and kill it in a single turn?

The Leman Russ Executioner would be hard pressed to deal more than 3-4 wounds in a turn to a Tyrannofex, even with plasma cannon sponsons and a hull lascannon, plus hunter killer missile and heavy stubber.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Katie Drake said:


> After doing a lot of thinking and mathematical calculations, I've decided that the Tyrannofex just might turn out to be worth the significant investment in points.
> 
> *Tyrannofex*
> - Capsule Cannon thing
> - Regenerate
> Pts: 295 ( :shok: )
> 
> Basically, it all comes down to sitting back and shooting at important targets every turn. This thing has a massive number of Wounds, a great Toughness value and an excellent armor save. It's also able to benefit from cover like any other Monstrous Creature, though it will admittedly take some luck to find an appropriate terrain piece for this purpose.
> 
> Since we're talking about a Monstrous Creature and not a tank, that means that there's no real way of stopping the Tyrannofex from shooting each and every turn bar killing it. There's no shaking/stunning it or blowing off its deadly weapon. This means that the enemy army needs to inflict six wounds over the course of five to seven turns. It doesn't _sound_ too hard, but I think it just might be.
> 
> Consider: the average number of lascannons in someone's army is probably two to four. Naturally some armies will have more, some less and some none at all (though they'll almost always have some type of equivalent). What matters is that the weapon has a range of at least 36", a Strength of no less than 8 and an AP of 2 or better.
> 
> Let's go with four lascannons being fired by Space Marines, but really this could work with units like Dark Eldar Warrior Squads with two dark lances each, or several units of Imperial Guard Veterans with lascannon heavy weapon teams or any other unit with the same BS.
> 
> Four lascannons should yield three hits and approximately three wounds per turn. If the Tyrannofex is in cover, only 1.5 of these will actually go through. For argument's sake we'll say the 'Fex fails two saves.
> 
> In the Tyranid player's turn, he rolls his regeneration dice. He has a 1/3 (I think?) chance of regenerating a wound. Let's say he fails.
> 
> Assuming that none of the lascannons have been silenced, they shoot the TyFex again. Let's say they score one more wound, reducing the TyFex to three wounds.
> 
> In the next Tyranid turn, the Tyrannofex _should_ regenerate a wound (since he's now rolling three dice this turn, he has a great chance of rolling a six, especially when we take into account the fact that he may have regenerated a wound last turn). For the hell of it, we'll assume he rolls a single 6 and regains one lost wound, so he's back up to four wounds.
> 
> Another four lascannon shots (assuming none have been killed or otherwise dealt with) will yield us another two wounds on average.
> 
> You see where I'm going with this? As long as there aren't any really amazing dice rolls going on, it'll take _ages_ to kill the Tyrannofex at range. The chances of an army being able to fire all of its lascannons (or whatever) each turn without interruption are slim at best considering the nature of the Tyranids new shooting capabilities. That means that the Tyrannofex will get to make a minimum of ten S10 shots over the course of a game (two per turn). That's _bound_ to hurt something.


Sure its hard to kill, but that entire time, he's not going to do much. Remember, being a Montrous Creature, he needs to be 50/50obscured, which means he will be giving cover saves to what he shoots at most of the time.

Chance of destroying a Land Raider without cover: 10.8%
Chance of destroying a Land Raider with cover: 5.5%

Most armies can ignore that sort of shooting, safe in knowing you've wasted 300 points.


----------



## H0RRIDF0RM

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Sure its hard to kill, but that entire time, he's not going to do much. Remember, being a Montrous Creature, he needs to be 50/50obscured, which means he will be giving cover saves to what he shoots at most of the time.
> 
> Chance of destroying a Land Raider without cover: 10.8%
> Chance of destroying a Land Raider with cover: 5.5%
> 
> Most armies can ignore that sort of shooting, safe in knowing you've wasted 300 points.


No that doesn't mean you give cover to the enemy tank. If that was even logical my Eldar Grav Tanks wouldn't lance shit.

Just put him behind a short wall.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

H0RRIDF0RM said:


> No that doesn't mean you give cover to the enemy tank. If that was even logical my Eldar Grav Tanks wouldn't lance shit.
> 
> Just put him behind a short wall.


Then anything with an elevated point of view (which can include some vehicles with high mounted weapons) will be able to see over the wall. Even without giving cover, he still doesn't have all that crash hot a chance to take out heavy vehicles, and against the weaker stuff, I'm sure 3 Hive guard should be up for the job. 

2 Drop Zoanthropes and 3 Hive guard is only a bit more expensive than a Tyrannofex, but I prefer the flexibility they offer.


----------



## Tim/Steve

SO you take a ~300pt tyrannofex to deal with the high AV enemy vehicles... since WLS is correct that its only a 10.8% chance to destroy a a LR each turn if you shoot at it every turn for 6 turns you have close to a 50% chance of killing it, assuming nothing bothers to shoot/kill you.
Can anyone really say they want to spend 250-300pts on an anti tank unit that is only going to kill LRs in every other game?


WHat Ive read seems to suggest that the landing spore is a troop... does it have some sort of rule to stop it scoring? Otherwise it's awesome, drop it on an unguarded objective with some zoanthropes who can go hit the enemy and you're laughing. Admittedly I kind of doubt it can score


I think the easiest way of giving it a cover save is to put it within 2" of the edge of a forest- enemies shooting between the trees gives you cover while you being within 2" gives you a clear shot... personally I dont think Ive ever managed to get a useful cover save for my MCs, but then mine are almost always trying to advance, not hiding away.


----------



## SHarrington

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> 2 Drop Zoanthropes and 3 Hive guard is only a bit more expensive than a Tyrannofex, but I prefer the flexibility they offer.


*My name is Sean and I endorse this statement.*


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Tim/Steve said:


> SO you take a ~300pt tyrannofex to deal with the high AV enemy vehicles... since WLS is correct that its only a 10.8% chance to destroy a a LR each turn if you shoot at it every turn for 6 turns you have close to a 50% chance of killing it, assuming nothing bothers to shoot/kill you.
> Can anyone really say they want to spend 250-300pts on an anti tank unit that is only going to kill LRs in every other game?
> Especially when two Zoanthropes in a Landing Spore has about the same chance, but is half the price
> 
> 
> WHat Ive read seems to suggest that the landing spore is a troop... does it have some sort of rule to stop it scoring? Otherwise it's awesome, drop it on an unguarded objective with some zoanthropes who can go hit the enemy and you're laughing. Admittedly I kind of doubt it can score


Nope, no scoring for Landing Spores.


----------



## Tim/Steve

*does the maths*

Assuming you drop 2 zoe's in range and there is no psychic hoods around each zoanthrope has a 22% chance of destroying the LR with a single shot... so that gives the LR only a 60.7% chance of *living* through both shots.

To put it another way, 2 zoanthopes shooting at a LR for 1 turn have a slightly better chance of destroying it then if you fired the tyrannofex at the LR for 4 consecutive turns... so you have an anti-LR force thats 4 times more effective for 1/2 the price... yes please.

Tyrannofex is relatively better at destroying lower AV vehicles... but why would you take a 300pt monster to deal with dreadnaught/transport equivalents which will tend to be in the 50-150pt range..?


----------



## lokis222

I started out loving this guy, but the math is weak for this guy. 

He looked scary, but in the end, you have a decent chance to take out an AV 12 a turn. I cant see anyone really losing sleep over this unit once they get over the gun and look at the stat line and number of shots.

Two things I have been toying with other than this guy are:

1. Landing spore with thorn blast + 2 zoanthropes. The zoanthropes pop something hopefully worth their points and if there is nothing worth their points, at least I didn't spend 300 pts. Then, due to the large 18" template blast, the other guy has to spend two units and hope to take out both. The guy can leave the spore, but it will probably be at least a mid to high level irritant. Esp if it is sitting on an objective.

2. Old One Eye + Landing spore with thorn blast. This sits at 310 pts, but when I figured out that you could deep strike Old One Eye, that a 4S weapon could only wound on a 6, that he had a 33.333% chance to regenerate each wound, that between his four attacks and crushing claws and mania, you stand a small chance of having 14 S10 armor ignoring attack in CC that rerolled 1 miss because of the scything talons I was pretty sure it was a better inverstment than the tyrannofex. 

This can:
A: Almost kill a LR guaranteed.

B: Wipe out at least five guys an assault phase with few worries about taking damage.

I would hate to see this guy drop in my backyard. I would probably panic and this, all things aside, is the purpose of the tyranofex. You are hoping to sow fear in the hopes that your opponent will concentrate fire long enough for you gribbly, killy units to get in and show them the varied and interesting places that scything talons will fit.


----------



## MaidenManiac

H0RRIDF0RM said:


> Off topic but who sais Zoanthrope cannot walk the field??? I dont ever plan to drop pod mine. Let my enemy since Heavy Weapons into a 3+ invulnerable just because they might splat, that just means something else makes it to where I want it to go.


The point is this:
3+ save is exactly _half_ as good as 2+, you fail 1 in 3 instead of 1 in 6. Back in the previous book it actually was hard to kill it with rapid fire stuff, it aint anymore, thus it will have huge problems walking across the table. The Zoanthrope wont attract all that AT shooting you all hope. It will attract a Tactica Squad w heavy bolter or similar and die from it. The heavy guns will still shoot the big bugs. The Zoanthrope will be mowed down by bolter equivalent weapons:read:


----------



## Tim/Steve

MaidenManiac said:


> The point is this:
> 3+ save is exactly _half_ as good as 2+, you fail 1 in 3 instead of 1 in 6. Back in the previous book it actually was hard to kill it with rapid fire stuff, it aint anymore, thus it will have huge problems walking across the table. The Zoanthrope wont attract all that AT shooting you all hope. It will attract a Tactica Squad w heavy bolter or similar and die from it. The heavy guns will still shoot the big bugs. The Zoanthrope will be mowed down by bolter equivalent weapons:read:


Tac squad with a heavy bolter melta/flamer and sgt with bolt pistol will average 1.2W on a zoanthrope if they all fire at 13-24" range... by which time it is too late and the zoanthrope _has_ crossed the field. Sure you could drop down in a drop pod and but even then you'll be averaging only 2.8 wounds max (even factoring in melta and combi melta doing 3W if the zoe fails its save). So Tac squads , not too much of an issue.
As for random heavy bolters.. it'll take an average of 6.7 HBs to kill 1 zoanthrope. So you'll need quite a number of them just to get rip of a single unit of zoanthropes.. and if I find that one unit dies too fast I can always just go cheesy and include 3... at 540pts for 9 it really is quite doable, and would be a total nightmare for enemy mech/MEQ armies.


----------



## oblivion8

IMO zoanthropes walking will be just as fine as it was before.
Like previously stated, by the time all those "rapid fire" weapons are able to be used effectively, chances are the thropes have already fired a volley. And if the opponent doesn't want that volley going off, then they will focus some of their hvy weapons on the thropes, saving your MC's from them. Also if they focus on shooting your thropes with the rapid fire, then your swarms get spared (Id much rather see thropes taking that many hvy bolters then my genestealers) not to mention the fact that you cant use pods in any competitive environment, so its either walking them up or they're out anyway.


----------



## Katie Drake

oblivion8 said:


> not to mention the fact that you cant use pods in any competitive environment, so its either walking them up or they're out anyway.


Wait, what? Why not? Just because there isn't an official model doesn't mean anything... the only Drop Pod models were from Forge World for ages and people still used those. It's just a matter of converting up something appropriate looking instead of plunking down a primed bottle of cola and claiming that it's a landing spore.


----------



## flankman

i'm confused as to why its only str 6 in CC. isnt it a carnifex with big guns? and well 3 attacks isnt that great.. because i would use it as a walking gun that will eventually destroy things in melee but an alpha warrior can out perform in in cc


----------



## Katie Drake

flankman said:


> i'm confused as to why its only str 6 in CC. isnt it a carnifex with big guns?


Kinda-sorta. It's like a weird hybrid between a Carnifex and a Tervigon, which in itself is somewhere between a Carnifex and a Mawloc or Trygon. Confusing, man.


----------



## Iron Angel

So that means its a Carnifex-Tervigon + Carnifex-Mawloc/Trygon

Ok.

So, that means its a Carnifex*2+Tervigon+Mawloc/Trygon

I am now officially confused.


----------



## H0RRIDF0RM

Katie Drake said:


> Wait, what? Why not? Just because there isn't an official model doesn't mean anything... the only Drop Pod models were from Forge World for ages and people still used those. It's just a matter of converting up something appropriate looking instead of plunking down a primed bottle of cola and claiming that it's a landing spore.


http://armorcast.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=120_37&products_id=146

Enjoy these Heresy before they get a price jack. Just purchase and add Tyranid bits.


----------



## oblivion8

> http://armorcast.com/store/product_i...roducts_id=146
> 
> Enjoy these Heresy before they get a price jack. Just purchase and add Tyranid bits.


good find + rep 

But unfortunately if you are playing in gw tournies, the model must be at least more than 50% gw model, might pass in smaller gw tournies (maybe) but things like ard boyz would be a no-go (unless you added a retarded amount of nid bitz). Thats why I said they weren't tourney plausible, cuz unless you want to use all of your nid bitz to make one pod, there isn't going to be another way around it.


----------



## MidnightSun

I'd buy a drop pod and stick those weird plant/mouth/tentacles from the Genestealer box on it. After all, I'm having more Genestealer boxes than Mycetic Spores.

Midnight


----------



## Serpion5

I tried the Tfex several times. He can work, but he does need to be supported. 

He`s basically death to light vehicles like vypers, especially when in squadrons. He does need to kill a lot to make back his points, but he _can_ do it.

At other times he was hopeless, missed most of the time then got rent to bits by blood claws when they ran out of better things to kill.

I guess my point is, he is every bit worth his points, it really depends on the dice. You can argue statistics and math all you want, but if the dice decide it`s your day, it will be your day. If the dice are in a bad mood, they may decide to say "fuck you nid player" and give you those dreaded "ones."

Me? I pick a model that looks cool. Therefore, I bought/converted them all.:biggrin:


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

I think you've missed the point with the tyrannofex a little, light vehicles are better dealt with by Hive Guard. For the same points, they can throw out 10 S8 shots hitting on 3's as opposed to 2 S10 hitting on 4's.

AV14 is easliy dealt with by Zoanthropes, which leaves things at AV13 for Tyrannofex. The problem with that IMO is that between Zoanthropes and Hive Guard you should have enough to get rid of AV13 anyway.


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

It's a pile of poo-poo pancakes. As Wolf_Lord_Skoll pointed out there are other things that can do he same job:
A) Better.
B) Cheaper.
Like the pyrovore, rippers & mawlock it's an example of a good idea poorly executed.


----------



## LucarioNid

He would have been good, had he had more weapons and cost less. He's too light on the infantry, but if the army was built around him he could well be useful. 
Maybe making the HQ low points could help if it was a list amde around tyranno?
Maybe, to make him a bit better:
HQ: tevigon
Elites: 2 Hive guard, 2 Zoanthropes (For tanks if the tyranno dies, and tough infantry)
Troops: 20-30 Termagants, Fill up the remaining points with Hormagauants(for CC)
Fast Attack: None
Heavy Support: Tyranno with fleshborer hive or rupture cannon

It's just an idea, but it'd probably suck against guys like the IG. Also note that I have never used one. 

Also, if you want to model one, I'd convert a carnifex with green stuff for a rupture cannon, or those funny crater thingys from genestealers for fleshborer hive.

To add, the fleshborer hive can cause some major damage. The fleshborer hive is basically 20 termagants. If the tyrannofex lasts the full match, it could unleash 100-140 shots from that thing. The acid spray just looks crap. Yes, it's free, but what does it do with template range? Not much. 

I say: Only use if you base the army around him.


----------



## DestroyerHive

Everytime I use the Tyrannofex it does really well, but for the point cost I'd rather take a Trygon.


----------



## Barnster

I'll ignore it until theres a model for it, but to be honest I think I will still just take either trygons or carnis after its released, I think they'll release a plastic terivgon/tyranofex kit either near christmas or early next year, then I may change my mind


----------



## MaidenManiac

The guy that won best painted on Gothcon (last tournament I was on) used a Barbed Hierodul as his Tyrannofex which looked damn cool:good:

Link


----------



## quachill

I just used the tyranofex in a 3 game tourney with two games prior. 

The Tfex can be a good psychological piece especially if you have a good model for him. The Tfex is not horribly effective for his points cost. If your opponent doesn't poor fire power into killing the Tfex you have wasted points that would have been better spent else where. 

I wont say he is useless he can pop tanks, but in 5 games with mostly average rolling for the Tfex his only saving grace was my opponent firing at him instead of my key units.

I for see as time goes on and more people who encounter the Tfex they will realize there are higher priority targets than the Tfex and at that point my Mr. Phalic the Tfex will have to retire from the field as an overpriced bug.


----------



## Orochi

Yeh, I find that the Tfex is easy enough to ignore.

Slow, not as powerful as other MCs in the Tyranid dex.


----------

