# Warriors of Chaos or Dark Elves?



## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

Hello Heretics!

With the release of 8th edition, I wanted to start a WFB army, but I've always been torn between Warriors of Chaos and Dark Elves. I find the models equally awesome, I love the possible colour schemes as well, but I would like to know what YOU would advice me to take:

-If I go for warriors of Chaos, I'll probably play a Khornate force. Since WoC have nearly no ranged firepower, I plan on getting as good as I can in close combat. My army would include a lord on Juggernaut with heavy CC equipment and some anti-magic items, a unit of Khorne Knights to go with him, 2 big units of Khorne Warriors with additional melee weapons, some Chaos Hounds to harass the flanks of my opponent and maybe a Hellcannon. The remaining points would be spent on Marauders.

-On the contrary, if I play Dark Elves, it would be a ranged list: lots of warriors with crossbows, Bolt Throwers, Corsairs with crossbows, and lots of magic too. I would also love to have an unit of cold Ones Knights, as I love the models, but I don't know if they would fit the rest of the army very well.

So, what do you think, WoC or DE?


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Both are excellent options. The main thing I'd ask myself is whether I care about being fragile or not. Both are very powerful on the offense, but the Dark Elves are a glass cannon, while the Warriors are very much outnumbeered.


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## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

Well I think I'm going to go with Dark Elves then. My main opponent would be my friend's Orcs and Goblins, and if being outnumbered is really a problem with Warriors of Chaos, facing 80+ goblins and 30+ orcs will be a big problem.
The dark elves are fragile, but they will only die if someone hits them. With a full ranged army, I can focus my fire on the main ranged elements of the enemy and it's cavalry in the first turns, and then let hell rain on his melee troops. And if he finally comes close, one or two good CC units (Cold Ones, Corsairs, maybe Executioners) will catch the remainings of my opponents army and tear them into bloody ribbons.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Dies Irae said:


> Well I think I'm going to go with Dark Elves then. My main opponent would be my friend's Orcs and Goblins, and if being outnumbered is really a problem with Warriors of Chaos, facing 80+ goblins and 30+ orcs will be a big problem.
> The dark elves are fragile, but they will only die if someone hits them. With a full ranged army, I can focus my fire on the main ranged elements of the enemy and it's cavalry in the first turns, and then let hell rain on his melee troops. And if he finally comes close, one or two good CC units (Cold Ones, Corsairs, maybe Executioners) will catch the remainings of my opponents army and tear them into bloody ribbons.


To accomplish these tactics best, I'd use several nice blocks of Repeater Crossbowmen, 20-man each, perhaps a large unit of 30-man for The Guiding Eye, magic for Dark Elves is particularly notable for its power and sustainability, being able to get free dice from several different sources. (Sacrificial Dagger, Darkstar Cloak, Power of Darkness.) Cold Ones can still work well now, though I haven't really been experimenting with them much (Phasing them out for chariots, but people on Druchii.net have good idea for how to keep them viable.) To add on to your shoot then counter-charge tactics, Hydras, as ever, would be the best Rare choice all-round. Those things can put a lovely hole in any unit, and when they're reduced by shooting, Hydras can solo something around twice their worth under good circumstances. :grin:

Don't let just me persuade you, however, I'm sure some of our other members can weigh in the advantages for WoC?


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I play both of the armies you're discussing (my only two Fantasy Armies, as it happens), so I thought I'd jump in.



Dies Irae said:


> -If I go for warriors of Chaos, I'll probably play a Khornate force. Since WoC have nearly no ranged firepower, I plan on getting as good as I can in close combat. My army would include a lord on Juggernaut with heavy CC equipment and some anti-magic items, a unit of Khorne Knights to go with him, 2 big units of Khorne Warriors with additional melee weapons, some Chaos Hounds to harass the flanks of my opponent and maybe a Hellcannon. The remaining points would be spent on Marauders.


Sounds like a decent force, but I would urge you not to get Hounds under any circumstances, and reconsider your choices of Marauders and Knights.

Hounds are bad. Bad bad bad. The only reason I have taken them so far was to satisfy the "minimum of 3 units" requirement. You're better off with something else 99% of the time.

Marauders are pretty mediocre, and I can't believe that anyone would ever choose a mediocre core option when they have possibly THE best infantry in the game taking up another core slot in the form of Chaos Warriors. Plus the models are ugly. :laugh: Personally I'd rather that all of my infantry was Warriors. If you do go Khorne, then I would suggest Halberds instead of hand weapons, because I think unless you're fighting lots of T2, the front rank causes almost exactly the same number of wounds on basic infantry (due to needing 2s to wound) BUT the second rank benefits from them as well, unlike Additional Hand Weapons where you still only get 1 attack in support. Halberds will also help out against any high-armour/toughness targets he might have. If he has a lot of bowmen then consider Shields as well.

Knights, although I love them, are no longer the powerhouses they used to be. If you were playing a non-horde army like Elves then I would recommend keeping them, but against 80 stubborn goblins they're just not going to be killy enough. If you do want some flanking cavalry for War Marchines then I would go for Marauder Horsemen with Throwing axes.



Dies Irae said:


> -On the contrary, if I play Dark Elves, it would be a ranged list: lots of warriors with crossbows, Bolt Throwers, Corsairs with crossbows, and lots of magic too. I would also love to have an unit of cold Ones Knights, as I love the models, but I don't know if they would fit the rest of the army very well.


My Delf army is also a very shooty one - 2 Sorceresses, 2 Bolt Throwers, 30 Crossbowmen, with a bit of combat punch - 30 Fenzied Corsairs and 10 Cold One Knights (sometimes Black Guard). I do enjoy playing it, with a couple of niggling problems.

S3 and T3. I know it's the "standard" statline, but I really hate not having access to anything else that isn't a Hydra. It always feels like I'm struggling to do consistent damage, or survive counterattacks.

Army balance. I can never decide if I've struck a good balance between Combat and Shooting, because sometimes I'll have a game where I annihilate the enemies "main" unit before it touches me, and the Corsairs/Cold Ones are reduced to mopping up (which isn't really justifying their points cost) and then other times I'll barely scratch him before he hits combat, and then I need to fight tooth and nail to survive long enough for my Sorceresses with Black Sun and Black Horror to do their work.

It is, of course, entirely up to you, but overall I think I enjoy playing my Chaos slightly more, simply because there's a lot less worry involved. I can go head to head with almost anything without thinking "oh shit, oh shit, oh shit, I really need to do something about that". On the other hand, there's a lot of satisfaction to be had from reducing the initiative of someone's prize unit by D3 and then hitting them with a large purple sun template...


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

As a counterpoint to some of Sethis' arguments, depending on your playstyle, you may actually enjoy not being able to just throw your men into any combat. More strategical thinking and all that jazz. But well, weigh the pros and cons we've covered, and decide what you want more. Good luck with whatever you do choose.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> The only reason I have taken them so far was to satisfy the "minimum of 3 units" requirement.


Hounds do not count towards that minimum.


As for which army to go with I say this: decide which play style you like better and go with that. I am not a big fan of stand and shoot armies so it is the CC focused Warriors of Chaos for me. I would take the one you like the play of the best and stick to that as you will enjoy it the most.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Sethis said:


> Hounds are bad. Bad bad bad. The only reason I have taken them so far was to satisfy the "minimum of 3 units" requirement.


They do not actually count towards the minimum units. According to p134 of the BRB the only thing they count towards is the total cost of your army.

*EDIT:* Drat Ninja'd


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## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

Well, after some thinking, I've chosen my army, and that will be..... Dark Elves!

Now to the army design, I was thinking about buying Island of blood and converting the models, and after seeing the pictures of the miniatures it doesn't seem to hard to do. Then buy a Battleforce for Christmas. Which will give me: 1 Sorcerer, 1 Lord on Griffon (proxy Cold One?), 22 Spearmen, 16 Crossbowmen,5 Dark Riders, 10 Executioners 20 Corsairs and 5 Cold Ones Knights. What should I add next? I was thinking about a Reaper Bolt Thrower or two. A Sorceress would be useful too. Oh and of course the Army Book.
What else?

PS: Damn, Halo Reach and Island of Blood, I'm going to spend a lot on September  ...


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