# help pick a army



## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

Hey guys, looking for abit of help
I want to start a fantasy project parallel to my space marine army, and was wandering what army to start.
Im looking for something with big units, and little focus on characters, because im good at painting a unit but my individual painting isn’t brilliant so I decided against any elves. Tactically I wanted a disciplined force with, which ruled out skaven and orks. Im not to worried about magic, will use it if I have it but its not a must. 
I think iv narrowed it down to either lizardmen or empire.
What’s your opinions fellow heretics?
Thanks in advance
The Gunslinger


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## KarnalBloodfist (Jan 30, 2010)

Sounds like you might want to pick up the new Empire book.


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## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

yea maybe, the only thing im worried about is trying to paint the puffy extravigent colour scheme


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

The Empire is quite analogous to Space Marines in a way, there are loads of little factions, Knighty Orders, Engineering enclaves etc which are all undocumented so there's no need for your guys to be flamboyant as you seen in many Empire Armies. You could make a very utilitarian force who shuns aesthetics in favour of practicality. 

Or you could play Warriors of Chaos.


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## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

what would be some good examples of a starter army? 
like how space marines is recommended a begginers army because its forgiving
iv not played fantasy in its current edition and dont want to pick one of the hardest armies to start again with


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Warriors of Chaos is probably the easiest Army to start with.


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## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

im not sure why i didnt consider woc... strange.
Thanks for your recomendation


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

As far as brightly coloured Empire troops is concerned, you could always play the army of Nuln. They basically just wear black.


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## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

TheKingElessar said:


> As far as brightly coloured Empire troops is concerned, you could always play the army of Nuln. They basically just wear black.


i always feel like black is cheating, plus you really need to do all teh highlighting etc with them to make it look decent, ends up always being more trouble then its worth


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Hardly cheating if highlighting is 'trouble'  haha. Fair enough, if you don't like a black army...though, trust me, it's not always easier!


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

WoC is a good basic choice, also Daemons of chaos (lots of rank and file that are not that difficult to paint and you don't have to play greater daemons). When plaguebearers look interesting, it actually is not hard to paint them with some highlighting in washes and inks to get the right effects and the unit is under-rated with the re-roll to wound banner. Bloodletters are not hard to paint but have enough detail to be interesting, as or horrors and flamers. You really only need two to three heralds to make the army effective. 

The only concern I have with WoC is the rumors are pretty solid that a new book is coming out some time between August and october this year and that will likely mean new units, a change in balance between units, and new plastic kits (chaos ogres and trolls). So, one can end up painting something only to find you need to rework the army and style (including changing the chaos god mark for certain units). 

Lizardmen are surprisingly easy to paint but do rely heavily on the Slaan and the Slaan's magic ability. You just paint up saurus (some converted to temple guard since tyhe TG models are over-priced) and skinks and chameleon skinks. You need a Slaan, an oldblood/saurus hero/ and skink priest or two. They are a disciplined army with the cold-blooded rule and fun to play. They are also the top tier army in lightly comped environments that still do not allow special characters from 7th edition books. Run saurus, temple guard, skinks (maybe with Kroxigors), salamanders for your basic units and you will have a solid/extremely competitive army with a Slaan, oldblood/saurus hero, and maybe a skink priest as a scroll caddy and cheap lore of heavens caster (which is under-rated since the signature spell and the #1 and #3 spells are some of the best for a cheap caster).


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## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

TheKingElessar said:


> Hardly cheating if highlighting is 'trouble' haha. Fair enough, if you don't like a black army...though, trust me, it's not always easier!


what i meant was it takes a lot more skill and effort to make a black army look good compared to blue etc, easy to slap black on a model, hard to make it look real

Hmm if it is rumoured that woc are getting an update I may have to look back at lizardmen, id be lying if I said the idea of have an army of giant lizards wasn’t appealing.
Thanks for your imput


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

The Gunslinger said:


> Hey guys, looking for abit of help
> I want to start a fantasy project parallel to my space marine army, and was wandering what army to start.
> Im looking for something with big units, and little focus on characters, because im good at painting a unit but my individual painting isn’t brilliant so I decided against any elves. Tactically I wanted a disciplined force with, which ruled out skaven and orks. Im not to worried about magic, will use it if I have it but its not a must.
> I think iv narrowed it down to either lizardmen or empire.
> ...


Empire is extreamly character centric, look into Warriors of Chaos.


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## Marius_Ruberu (Feb 15, 2012)

I started Fantasy with the Lizardmen before they even had a codex. It was in a white dwarf instead. Army is really fun to play, strong units, and easy to paint. Mine just have aqua skin and blue scales highlighted with some lighter blues. I mainly focus on Saurus warriors and only have a few skinks with blow pipes. But with the most resent book i have been re-looking over my army. But really fun army to play. You dont need to use magic and i have killed many armies using none, but i have killed lots of armies using a Slann and lots of magic.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Marius_Ruberu said:


> I started Fantasy with the Lizardmen before they even had a codex. It was in a white dwarf instead. Army is really fun to play, strong units, and easy to paint. Mine just have aqua skin and blue scales highlighted with some lighter blues. I mainly focus on Saurus warriors and only have a few skinks with blow pipes. But with the most resent book i have been re-looking over my army. But really fun army to play. You dont need to use magic and i have killed many armies using none, but i have killed lots of armies using a Slann and lots of magic.


You started Lizzies in 1988??


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## stalarious (Aug 25, 2011)

I would put my money on lizardmen they are a awesome army to look at their paint scheme can go from simple to complex and you still get your disciplined army and their is magic if you need it. 
(I think lizardmen are awesome their models and fluff make them fun to play against)


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## bobahoff (Nov 24, 2011)

Just a quick one, apologies for jumping on but I also am starting a fantasy army fairly soon and would like some advice. I have narrowed it down to 3 possibles:
Warriors of chaos
Ogre kingdoms
Bretonians

Essentially. What I want is a fast moving army that can dish out some serious damage but also take a fair amount of damage in return. Also it needs to be pretty small models wise (that means not many models not small models)

Finally I would like something simple to pick up but difficult to master. I love experimenting with different army lists on the table. As a casual player I'm not looking to win tournaments, just have a striking looking army that I can have a good laugh with win lose or draw


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

For a striking army that looks the business, Brets are most assuredly up there.


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## bobahoff (Nov 24, 2011)

thats what i was thinking, however the problem is that its now a pretty old book. is it due for re release any time soon. also i had heard that it can be a bit of a nightmare in the hands of a less experienced bloke, so what is the learning curve between 40K and fantasy?

I dont mind losing but I dont want to be getting decimated every time I get them out of the case


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## Atreyu (May 30, 2011)

It definitely is an old book, and don't look for an update right now, as it hasn't really been rumored period. The next book seems to be WoC, but GW is being smart and keeping that quiet (I have only heard two very vague rumors about them). Brets are definitely a striking army, and can definitely hit hard. They just don't do what they used to with breaking everything when they crash into combat. A lot of units are now steadfast in return, and can handle Brets charging. I would personally suggest Ogre Kingdoms, because they have some nice models, strike hard, and move unexpectedly fast.


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## bobahoff (Nov 24, 2011)

also with brets is it possible to field a nearly entirely cavalry army and if so will it get taken to pieces by more numerous armies?

I do like the ogre kingdoms minis,just to confirm they are an army you have to learn to use arent they you cant just point them in the general direction of the enemy and watch them chew every thing up and spit it out afterwards


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## Atreyu (May 30, 2011)

It is possible, just for shooting you would probably end up relying on either mounted yeomen or trebuchets if you wish to have ALMOST every guy on a horse. It would not necessarily get taken to pieces, you just have to be smart. With being only 3 wide and still count as having ranks, you can do multiple charges onto one unit in the front, helping you try to break that steadfast your opponent may have. Also, you must consider the possibility of getting flanked alot, so try to enter a flank denial army to ensure you won't start losing combat res so easily.


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## bobahoff (Nov 24, 2011)

flank denial?


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## Atreyu (May 30, 2011)

Flank denial is where you set up your army where you cannot be flanked by any means by your opponent. Something crucial for a brets army. 

Ogres are a little of point in a direction and a little of learning. They have lots of big stuff that basically just smash. However, you can do alot of different things with the ogre kingdoms army. You can run them as MSU to save points for the mournfang cavalry and big monsters like the thundertusk, or have big blocks of ogres surging forward relying on the butcher/slaughtermasters magic that just toughens them up.


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## bobahoff (Nov 24, 2011)

Sounds good to me ogres it is. So basically I need a butcher, some basic ogres and maybe a special/rare unit to begin with as well as an overtyrant


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## HOGGLORD (Jan 25, 2012)

Look's like your stuck in the same dilemma as me, Lizardmen, Warriors of Chaos or Empire? Aztec, dinosaur riding, giant lizard warriors, Heavily armored, soulless knights and dark mages, alongside fanatical warriors and demonic beasts, lead by dark champions of unrivaled skill or disciplined volleys of rifle and cannon fire, alongside knights and rank upon rank of cannonfodder infantry. It's a tough choice!


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Nope. Don't bother with a tyrant.

In 7th it was an auto-choice but now in 8th with the new army book tyrants just arn't worth it unless you are playing 3k+ games... mine hasn't even touched a table in over a year.
You are going to want a slaughtermaster and a bruiser with BSB: the great maw is an awesome law which can easily turn fights in your favour with its spells and SMs can be made pretty evil in combat without too much effort. A BSB helps with any leadership trouble and if you don't give them a magic banner you can make them pretty nasty in combat to boot.
As for everything else- yes, a bit block or 2 of bulls is a good way to start, and then add in leadbelchers/mournfang and mebbe an ironblaster or 2 and you have an excellent start to an ogre army.

Other choices such as ironguts, scraplaunchers and the big monsters are nice choices too, but not in the same class as the ones I mentioned before (though ironguts can take a magical standard, which means people often take them in place of bulls- its a great way to take the banner of discipline and up that SM to Ld9).

Units not worth taking are: 
*Tyrants*- not much better then a SM and you sacrifice magic, good fun in high pt games, but not worth it in anything under 3k.
*Yhettes*- don't work. Magical attacks in an army that cries out for magical attacks... but when not fighting ethereals they are just expensive bulls that trade a few bonuses for extra pts cost, have no armour and take up special %.
*Hunters*- die easily, kill very little and take hero % away from butchers/BSB
*Hunter on stonehorn*- seperate they are not great, together they pool their weaknesses without gaining much. 
*Gnoblars*- if they weren't so annoying to set-up or paint they would probably get used more... but the sort of players that enjoy messing around with billions of models don't usually play ogres. They are decent tarpits if taken in enough numbers and backed up by general (and BSB if possible), but that isn't a vital role in most ogre armies.
*All special characters except Skrag*- SKrag is immense and the best lord choice there is (about as nasty in combat as a tyrant, tyrant's Ld and SM's magic plus his bonus special rules), the others are a joke. Gresus is better in the new book so could be used to good effect but is not great while Bragg and Golgfag are ridiculous. Bragg is an expensive bruiser with no defense who only works in challenges, which no-one is going to accept anyway (and the monster-characters that you can force into a challenge and will want to HKB will kill him first anyway) and Golgfag is a massively expensive bruiser that removes the choice of special rules from your maneaters and whose nice choice of magical items is random, slows down games and even if you roll doubles 6s doesn't pay for his price increase over a normal bruiser.
*Giants*- used to be a funny joke, now have lost the funny and are just a joke. Compare them to an ogre character- they are about the same points, same T but have no armour, no ward can't hide in units and are only marginally killier... they die so fast they rarely do any damage and can't tarpit anything you would want to for longer then a turn (if your lucky).


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## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

HOGGLORD said:


> Look's like your stuck in the same dilemma as me, Lizardmen, Warriors of Chaos or Empire? Aztec, dinosaur riding, giant lizard warriors, Heavily armored, soulless knights and dark mages, alongside fanatical warriors and demonic beasts, lead by dark champions of unrivaled skill or disciplined volleys of rifle and cannon fire, alongside knights and rank upon rank of cannonfodder infantry. It's a tough choice!


Yea I think I'm going to go with lizardmen seem like a interesting side project


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

this is amusing as im taking a 40k project to go alongside my empire


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## bobahoff (Nov 24, 2011)

So based on what has been said so far ( thanks BTW +rep) I am going to buy as a starter

Slaughtermaster
Ogre kingdoms battalion(a unit of ogres, leadbelchers and ironguts)
An additional box of ogres
2xboxes of mournfang cavalry
A scrap launcher

Anything else I should take or is that enough


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## Atreyu (May 30, 2011)

I would consider building the scrap launcher kit as the ironblaster. A move and fire cannon is just brutal, and its also a chariot so if things seem to go wrong, charge!


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## bobahoff (Nov 24, 2011)

:spiteful: yes its all coming together. I'm getting WFB rulebook this month then build up my ogres over the following months in secret before unleashing them


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

yeah that sounds like a solid start and is pretty much what I would use in most games though I don't yet have an ironblaster (moo cannon)


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