# New Tyranids.



## Judas Masias

The new Bugs are up for pre-order.:scare:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=6700002a


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## Revelations

Hello Christmas budget goinng out the window...


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## KarlFranz40k

This is being covered in the other thread already, but yes, it is very exciting.


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## fett14622

they look awesome.:grin:


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## Underground Heretic

Thank you for your diligence, Masias. The news and rumors are most up to date here. Again thank you for your keeping on top of the news!


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## jackd334

:O £30!!? For a trygo? Yes please!! I dont even play nids but i want on for a paintin profetc


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## bobss

Well, after my initial ''WTF. WANT. NOW'', Id rather have a Valkyrie 

If I ever have enough money, I will get a Titan crushing one of these things, and raising its guns towards the sky in victory....

The metals are awesome though. And the paintjobs from all 3 major Hive Fleets is much improved and refined


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## Vaz

NB - Thropes are now Elites, as are Pyrovores, Venomthropes and Hive Guards.

Warriors are troops, and Broodlord is now an upgrade Character for Genestealers. Who are still troops.

Edit - Still no fucking Harridan.


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## Lord of the Night

That Trygon is beautiful enough to make me want a Tyranid army. Hell may just get the Trygon model for display, have a bunch of Terminators killing it.


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## flankman

xept there is NO WAY IN HELL those termies el win


ok. i'm loving the guards guns 2 str8 shots that ignore LOS rules


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## jigplums

they look sweet as. the motivation i needed for my new 40k project


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## Inquisitor_Leith

They are lowering the cost of Gaunts, i wonder if the will lower their stat line as well. 

oh well, more fodder for space marines.


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## Azkaellon

More like more yummy yummy space marines for my hordeing Minions.


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## Phenious

I too am very excited for the new releases. MY only problem is not a job to pay for all the new goodies! But still can't dampen my excitement to see what is in that glowing new book. *excited face*


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## Llamafish

*possiable rules*

just found these rules for the new NIDS on this site Definitely buying a trygon, codex and two boxes of gargoyles:
Further new info on the forth coming Tyranid rules:
http://pink-tyranids.blogspot.com/2009/12/new-tyranid-rules-hot-info.html

Hive Tyrants are to gain increased WS and I

Tyrant Guard gain Furious Charge and Rage if the Hive Tyrant they are protecting is slain

Lictors have a reduced points cost and increased stats such as 3 wounds.

Hive Guard definitely 100% have a non LOS gun.

Pyrovores have similar stat line to tyrant guard with a Flamer that is 2+ Poisoned and AP3

Warriors have a 4+ save and 3 wounds as standard!!!!

Hormaguants are 1/2 price and gain I5 and Ld6

Gargloyles have a WFB esque poison rule; all to hit and to wounds with their guns auto-wound on a 6. NOT rending however along with a reduced points cost.

Carnifexs are 1-3 per Heavy Support slot and have WS4 BS3 as standard!!!

Trygons are unber combat machines who can deepstrike in and if they land on a model/unit it counts as charging them.

Mawlocs are not as good as Trygons in combat but have a very nasty pair of rules: 1. When they deepstrike place a large(?) blast marker down and scatter etc. Anymodel touched suffers a S6 AP2 hit. Anything that survives is pushed out the way and the Mawloc appears. Then at the end of any subsequent Tyranid movement phase (could possibly include the turn it arrives) the Mawloc may "go underground" again. It will automatically arrive in the following Tyranid turn and again follow the rules above to see if anything is hurt by its arrival.


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## exsulis

Llamafish said:


> Mawlocs are not as good as Trygons in combat but have a very nasty pair of rules: 1. When they deepstrike place a large(?) blast marker down and scatter etc. Anymodel touched suffers a S6 AP2 hit. Anything that survives is pushed out the way and the Mawloc appears. Then at the end of any *subsequent* Tyranid movement phase (could possibly include the turn it arrives) the Mawloc may "go underground" again. It will automatically arrive in the following Tyranid turn and again follow the rules above to see if anything is hurt by its arrival.


1. occurring or coming later or after (often fol. by to): subsequent events; Subsequent to their arrival in Chicago, they bought a new car. 
2. following in order or succession; succeeding: a subsequent section in a treaty 


Now if it was able to burrow back down in its own turn then said model would likely never get harmed, and it would be pretty broken. :alcoholic:


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## Vaz

Warriors. 3 Wounds. 4+ Armour Save as Standard.



...













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...




fouihewgiudhfweofihqw ifuhewgowihgewgoiejwfqso


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## oblivion8

9 carnifex's, 2 hivetyrants and (possibly) the red terror? 12 mc's...


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## Katie Drake

Maybe Warriors will finally be good enough that Nid players will use them? I love Warriors but nobody ever takes any, so I don't get to gun 'em down.


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## Vaz

I wonder if they're still 14pts each... That's 2 Flyrants, 2 Matloks, 2x Gargs, and as many warriors as possible for me then!


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

I was considering 8 WON gaunt, Zoanthrope(if they aren't turned into HQ-style choices) and half a dozen Hive Guard to guard my objective. Turns out 6 Warriors should be good enough =D


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## The Sullen One

So Broodlords are now longer HQ choices, well that's my friend's nascent nid army in need of an overhaul.

As for some of the other changes, such as Carnifexes coming in squads, does anyone else see a danger that the newer codices are becoming overly endowed with advantages compared to the older ones.

Starting with Codex: Space Marines, and continuing with Codex: Imperial Guard and now Codex: Tyranids, you've got the authors making massive changes, introducing new units and new rules to allow you to field more elite units.

Now compare this with Chaos Marines, Orks, and Eldar, which were essentially tidying up exercises, and all of a sudden you have, for want of a better term, a Codex gap. 

Already you've Warhammer players complaining that all they ever see in tournaments are Vampire Count and Dark Elf armies, not to mention the ubiqitous complaint from 40k players that all they ever see are Space Marine armies. What if, in order to win games, new players, as well as more experienced players, feel they must use armies benefitting from the newest codices?

Personally I wish someone at Games Workshop would tell guys like Mat Ward and Robin Cruddace that just because their writing that first codex, doesn't mean they need to make it way overpowered. But to be fair, maybe they feel the need to do so in order to avoid fan's ire. After all we've all read about the reception the latest Chaos Codex has received, not to mention some of the more unsavoury comments about it that have been made to Gav Thorpe.


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## Master_Caleb

The Sullen One said:


> As for some of the other changes, such as Carnifexes coming in squads, does anyone else see a danger that the newer codices are becoming overly endowed with advantages compared to the older ones.
> 
> Starting with Codex: Space Marines, and continuing with Codex: Imperial Guard and now Codex: Tyranids, you've got the authors making massive changes, introducing new units and new rules to allow you to field more elite units.


Okay tyranids have already gone through some massive changes from previous codeci (or codexes?). Next is what's wrong with allowing you to field more elite units? I honestly love to throw down that uber awesome creature of death that your opponent immediately points their guns at. It's not like this is going to be much of a change anyways as most tyranid players right now use nidzilla (an elite army list). If anything you will see more swarm heavy nids, and hence more regular troops instead of the elite kind. Also that's not forget to mention the fact that being able to field a million elite units doesn't mean you can. When guard came out people screamed, and yelled about 9 leman russ tanks. I see very few list who field more than three...



The Sullen One said:


> Now compare this with Chaos Marines, Orks, and Eldar, which were essentially tidying up exercises, and all of a sudden you have, for want of a better term, a Codex gap.
> 
> Already you've Warhammer players complaining that all they ever see in tournaments are Vampire Count and Dark Elf armies, not to mention the ubiqitous complaint from 40k players that all they ever see are Space Marine armies. What if, in order to win games, new players, as well as more experienced players, feel they must use armies benefitting from the newest codices?


As far as fantasy goes, I've tied with VC, and held ground against DE (although I lost), and I'm a NEW TK player. I do think some of the current armies do have their advantages over others, but every codex has that one thing that makes you stare in awe, and to be arguing that chaos, orks, and eldar are getting the short end of the stick is just ridiculous. I've played in allot of local tournies, and some of the hardest players to beat are chaos, eldar, and orks. As far as marines go, yes they are numerous. They are the poster-boy of 40k so it shouldn't surprise you when they show up at tournaments, it's not as big of a deal as you make it out to be. 

All in all I honestly think that you shouldn't be whining all that much about a new codex's toys. Every new codex has something which everyone considers broken, and then it comes out and it's not so bad after all (remember the hype around jaws)? Honestly if it makes the army a little more competitive then good, if it makes them even better then great. I felt this way about guard, and about wolves, and about every other army that has come out so far. My favorite thing about warhammer is having to adapt to new challenges, and without a hard new codex I just don't think it would be nearly as fun. And as for the old ones being horrible... I don't think you have fought an experienced dark eldar player... it's only one trick but damn it's a good one.

Thanks,

~MC


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## Katie Drake

Yeah... really not a fan of Broodlords becoming nothing but a unit upgrade. That effectively renders the 'Genestealer army' illegal.

Carnifex units scare me. A lot. Assuming that all of the Fexes aren't required to have the same wargear, it'll be possible to play the usual Wound-Allocation tricks. This wouldn't be so bad if we were talking about Thunderwolf Cavalry or something, but when it comes to a Monstrous Creature it's a bit different. Imagine how hard it's gonna be to bring down 12 Wounds worth of gribbly 'Nid death.

As for the Codex Creep talk... yeah, it seems that way when looking at things from a distance, but I don't think it's founded. I don't want to start a Codex Creep debate though, so we should probably try to stay off that topic.


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## Phenious

The Sullen One said:


> So Broodlords are now longer HQ choices, well that's my friend's nascent nid army in need of an overhaul.
> 
> As for some of the other changes, such as Carnifexes coming in squads, does anyone else see a danger that the newer codices are becoming overly endowed with advantages compared to the older ones.
> 
> Starting with Codex: Space Marines, and continuing with Codex: Imperial Guard and now Codex: Tyranids, you've got the authors making massive changes, introducing new units and new rules to allow you to field more elite units.
> 
> Now compare this with Chaos Marines, Orks, and Eldar, which were essentially tidying up exercises, and all of a sudden you have, for want of a better term, a Codex gap.


Oh come on! How many times have you personally beat down a Nid army at far range? I personally think these new updates puts the bugs back on even terms with all these Marine and Tau and Eldar armies that get to field a tank as a troop support choice when we didn't even get any tanks. The Fexs hardly ever got to do what they were ment to do, kill tanks. Now they might actually get to tackle a few before being gunned down. I know I have had many up hill battles against troops sitting in side big armor vehicles that my messily 8s and below guns can barely stun, let alone break. Nids have just gotten their much deserved upgrade in shooting I think. Will just have to see what comes of these new rules and new bugs.

As a last side note, with their fluff bugs are suppose to be constantly changing, evolving and adapting to their opponents. And with the increase of power in their main combatants of course they were bound to get stronger. Next will be which ever race has to compete with these three super powers, just from a fluff stand point.


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## darklove

Katie Drake said:


> As for the Codex Creep talk... yeah, it seems that way when looking at things from a distance, but I don't think it's founded. I don't want to start a Codex Creep debate though, so we should probably try to stay off that topic.


Have to admit though, with this trend, things are looking super cool for Necrons and Dark Eldar when they finally get their new books :victory:


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## The Sullen One

Okay maybe I was jumping the gun a bit when I talked about a Codex gap, and if it were Chaos getting such a great looking codex I wouldn't be complaining one bit. It's interesting though that Codices are going this way, and as Darklove said encouraging for what the Necrons and Dark Eldar will be getting when the codices are finally released.

As to your Phenious, I've only played Nids, and through a combination of good dice, good luck, and a plucky little scout sniper I eliminated most of my opponent's army in rapid succession. The exception was a Carnifex, and ultimately it nearly won the game for him.


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## Kale Hellas

anyone else notice when reading it that putting warriors out of hq anyone with only the old battleforce has to now buy a new hq, and the broodlord is just dodgey it was good in hq because then you have infiltrating armies


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## Winterous

Kale Hellas said:


> anyone else notice when reading it that putting warriors out of hq anyone with only the old battleforce has to now buy a new hq, and the broodlord is just dodgey it was good in hq because then you have infiltrating armies


You know, Warriors aren't ACTUALLY an HQ as is.
They're an Elites choice that can be taken as an HQ.
There'll probably be something along the lines of Warrior Overlords, with psychic abilities, or just stronger Synapse, available as an HQ choice.
Just because the GW product list for Nids is a bit out of order at the moment, doesn't mean it'll stay that way.
In all likelihood there'll be a Genestealer HQ choice too, like a bigger Broodlord, or a Patriarch!


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## Phenious

Before what has been released I heard rumors that depending on what the Warriors are equipped with will determine their rank and class. That even though they are placed in the Elite category they will actually have the equipment to be an HQ or even a troop choice. But then that was just a propaganda rumor. . .


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## Chaoz94

god damn it
just as im about to stop playing warhammer
these nids come out
and now i hate my power armoured armies and WANT THE FRAKING TRYGON GIVE ME ITNOWWWWWWWW
(chaos aside ,) 
i may have to............buy these new tyranids and ....corrupt them

chaoz.....


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## bobss

It warms the heart to already hear people trying to abuse a codex they dont even own yet....


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## Winterous

Chaoz94 said:


> i may have to............buy these new tyranids and ....corrupt them
> 
> chaoz.....


*picture of a Cultist riding a Trygon*
Whee captoured eet fhour CHAOZ!


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## Khorothis

Chaoz94 said:


> i may have to............buy these new tyranids and ....corrupt them


The EXACT SAME THING went through my mind, but my brother is collecting nids already, and even if he decides to drop them they won't be painted the way I wanted them to be... I wanted to paint them Tentacle Pink-Warlock Purple-Shining Gold and make OBVIOUS conversions of the Pyrovore and make a Tyranid army entirely devoted to Slaanesh. Just look at that Venomthrope, its the bastard son of /tg/ and /d/ (hate me as much as you like for this statement, but if you understand it you know its true)! 

I just hope Lictors will be more useful in the next Codex, 'cause the way they look they deserve at least a bit better rules.

*Applies Tranquilizer Cookie*

I think that when it comes to Tournaments, my Chaos boys will have to be able to be a shooty army or a close combat army using the same list because there is no way in hell I'll start running ahead against the new 'nids, especially with all those mean monsters coming out. I'm not saying I'm scared, only that I think its best to keep some distance. 36" preferably, thats the range of Heavy Bolters. :grin: 
I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for assault-oriented armies because with the great guns 'nids are getting said assault armies will be shot up by the time they manage to get into CC with another assault-oriented army. Orks vs Nids, for instance. Ork shooting phase? LOL. 'nid shooting phase? Ouch. Lets hope that few will have BS3 and even less BS4 'cause that'd be bloody scary. Gaunts wiping out their targets in the shooting phase - > ; _ ;


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## Usaal

Anyone else notice this?
HQ choices on the games workshop site now only have a Hive tyrant and Tyrant guards

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1020010&rootCatGameStyle=

Troop section has the Brood lord...

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1020009&rootCatGameStyle=


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## Winterous

Usaal said:


> Anyone else notice this?
> HQ choices on the games workshop site now only have a Hive tyrant and Tyrant guards
> 
> http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1020010&rootCatGameStyle=
> 
> Troop section has the Brood lord...
> 
> http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1020009&rootCatGameStyle=


Yes, if you read through any of the 3,000 threads about new Nids, this stuff will be explained.
Broodlords are going to be an upgrade for a Genestealer unit now, and Warriors are going to be troops standard.
That doesn't mean that they won't be able to be HQ, there could well be upgrades you can purchase that make them fit for a leadership position.


One thing I'm hoping for is special Synapses, and different range Synapse for different units like in 2nd ed.

For example, an HQ warrior squad could provide a BS bonus for anything in Synapse range, due to the Warriors having multiple minds and multiple senses to share information about, they might even be able to see through the eyes of smaller creatures by using their greater compound intelligence.

A Hive Tyrant with a certain upgrade could provide a special rule that, in addition to making things Fearless, also makes them immune to No Retreat wounds, as it has a stronger will and can not only stop the smaller critters from panicking, but force them to act in a sensible and self-preservative manner.

A Broodlord HQ could possibly provide surrounding troops with the Stealth special rule, as Genestealers are naturally stealthy and have an enhanced sense of self-preservation, the Broodlord shares this innate knowledge with other creatures.


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## wombat_tree

Winterous said:


> A Hive Tyrant with a certain upgrade could provide a special rule that, in addition to making things Fearless, also makes them immune to No Retreat wounds, as it has a stronger will and can not only stop the smaller critters from panicking, but force them to act in a sensible and self-preservative manner.


HT: Fight on my brood!
G: But Were dying!
HT: Oh hush now.
G: But I am scared!
HT: Well then lets think this one through. Well start by looking at the positive side of the situation. We get food and um...we kill humans?
G: Well I do see your point but I just don't see why we have to do all this, I mean I'm not even hungry.
HT: It's for the children.
G: Fair enough.


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## Khorothis

wombat_tree said:


> HT: Fight on my brood!
> G: But Were dying!
> HT: Oh hush now.
> G: But I am scared!
> HT: Well then lets think this one through. Well start by looking at the positive side of the situation. We get food and um...we kill humans?
> G: Well I do see your point but I just don't see why we have to do all this, I mean I'm not even hungry.
> HT: It's for the children.
> G: Fair enough.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Hive Tyrant with Commissar Hat. :grin:


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## Broguts

Vaz said:


> NB - Thropes are now Elites, as are Pyrovores, Venomthropes and Hive Guards.
> 
> Warriors are troops, and Broodlord is now an upgrade Character for Genestealers. Who are still troops.
> 
> Edit - Still no fucking Harridan.




what eves I'll slap some forgeworld wings on the trygon and take out the arms and its good enough


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## Chaoz94

Khorothis said:


> The EXACT SAME THING went through my mind, but my brother is collecting nids already, and even if he decides to drop them they won't be painted the way I wanted them to be... I wanted to paint them Tentacle Pink-Warlock Purple-Shining Gold and make OBVIOUS conversions of the Pyrovore and make a Tyranid army entirely devoted to Slaanesh. Just look at that Venomthrope, its the bastard son of /tg/ and /d/ (hate me as much as you like for this statement, but if you understand it you know its true)!
> 
> I just hope Lictors will be more useful in the next Codex, 'cause the way they look they deserve at least a bit better rules.
> 
> *Applies Tranquilizer Cookie*
> 
> I think that when it comes to Tournaments, my Chaos boys will have to be able to be a shooty army or a close combat army using the same list because there is no way in hell I'll start running ahead against the new 'nids, especially with all those mean monsters coming out. I'm not saying I'm scared, only that I think its best to keep some distance. 36" preferably, thats the range of Heavy Bolters. :grin:
> I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for assault-oriented armies because with the great guns 'nids are getting said assault armies will be shot up by the time they manage to get into CC with another assault-oriented army. Orks vs Nids, for instance. Ork shooting phase? LOL. 'nid shooting phase? Ouch. Lets hope that few will have BS3 and even less BS4 'cause that'd be bloody scary. Gaunts wiping out their targets in the shooting phase - > ; _ ;



ah , so ive heard of the problems of individuality with chaos marines now , tis why ive stopped playing them , every new codex whipes the floor with them(lets not even get started with space pups:/)
hopefully theyll be a low BS 
but ive been corrupted by the hive mind , henceforth im starting tyranids(congrats GW as soon as i get out of your infernal plasti-crack addiction
YOU ASSIMILATE ME AGAIN!)



Winterous said:


> *picture of a Cultist riding a Trygon*
> Whee captoured eet fhour CHAOZ!


that is so going in my sig xD
congrats you made my day , +rep


ALL PRAISE ZEH HIVE MIND JAH

chaoz


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## Khorothis

I just imagined Culist-chan riding a Hive Tyrant. :grin: Though a whole Tyranid Hive having the same bad accent as her would be more murderous than their claws.


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## Katie Drake

Got all this from BOLS.



> Pics and news brought to the community by everyone's favorite masked man: Scryer In the Darkness
> 
> Well, 3 for 3 guys. Its Wednesday, and Tyranids info is dropping out of the sky around us. Here 's the latest set of pics and info snippets:
> 
> Okay, a bunch of new stuff to share with you all thanks to a very nice ninja. First up just a few expanded/clarified/interesting near direct quotes from the product brief...
> 
> 
> "Codex: Tyranids contains a whole new set of creatures that are not yet covered by Citadel Miniatures. Enthusiastic players will want to create their own Tyrannofex or Tervigon with the help of the descriptions and images from the bestiary. (The product brief advises that) these can be assembled from a combination of parts of the Carnifex, Trygon and Tyranid Monstrous Arms Bitz Pack."
> 
> 
> "Tyranid Warriors - Can be converted to an Alpha Warrior, a Tyranid HQ, which is ideal to lead a growing army of Tyranids or support a Hive Tyrant in its task. (The product brief advises that) you can combine the Tyranid Warriors kit with the new plastic Raveners to represent an Alpha Warrior."
> 
> 
> "Trygon - Many parts of this kit are compatible with the Carnifex, enabling customers to create their own Tyranid monstrosities. In addition to the entry in Codex: Tyranids, there is also the option for Trygon with Ravener Brood 'Tunnel Swarm' formation for Apocalypse."
> 
> 
> "Mawloc - Special rule is called 'Terror from the Deep' and it can 'smash defenses'." (This may just be flowery descriptive text rather than necessarily in-game function)
> 
> 
> "Pyrovore - Are melee monsters that devour their enemies, breaking down the biomass of their victims and then transforming it into a powerful acid attack (in the form of a flamer template)."
> 
> 
> 
> ~Get a load of that marketing sample sheet of the Biovore. Also note the mention of creatures in the codex without models that you can apparently build from the other kits (Carnifex-Trygon fusions apparently). New Apoc formations for the Trygons are also reported for early next year.
> 
> sildani [Moderator] 4 hours ago
> To better disseminate the info, I present the following, courtesy of Bregalad on Warseer:
> 
> Only official news on Carnifexes so far:
> - More attacks
> - Better BS
> - 1-3 Broods
> - Options to make it a walking tank or cc monster.
> So not completely nerfed so far
> 
> And from Scryer in the Darkness, also from Warseer:
> 
> Right, the good news is stores should be receiving their preview Codices very soon, i.e. literally any day now, the bad news is that they won't be the full Codex... but we all kinda figured that's what GW would do, right? Hopefully some lucky stores (read GW stores) will get proper Codices. So before we get inundated with all that, a few quick snippets for you that I haven't had time to verify (a bit run off my feet sorry) but can share with you:
> 
> The Shadow in the Warp is now 12" range on 3d6, Perils of the Warp on double 1 or 6. Free for Hive Tyrant, Tyranid Warriors and Trygon Alpha.
> 
> Hive Tyrant variant called the Swarmlord. Armed with 4 Boneswords (which are greatly improved now), and loaded up with special rules but costs more than a LR.
> 
> Zoanthrope variant whose S is equal to the number of Wounds it has... and it can have up to 10.
> 
> Pyrovore's template is S6 AP4 (not AP3). Also some talk of it getting to lay down a template every time it eats an enemy model... but I'm not sure if that was just a joke.
> 
> Now on to Deep Strike stuff... seems that the Trygon cannot in fact assault a unit he Deeps Strikes onto. Follows the same rules as Drop Pods apparently, i.e. stop within 1", however the same source hints that Mycetic Spore deployment is back, soooo...
> 
> And finally some totally alleged points cost and stats...
> 
> Trygon 200pts WS5, 6 Wounds, 6 Attacks* : Mawloc 160 pts
> Carnifex 170pts WS3, 4 Wounds, 4 Attacks*
> * Everybody comes with two pairs of scything talons as standard. There are also some biomorphs as standard but don't know what they are.
> 
> Discuss!
> sildani [Moderator] 20 minutes ago
> More stuff, courtesy of Scryer in the Darkness on Warseer:
> 
> Wait... the Hive Mind speaks to me... it says... you will make a tasty snack, no... it says...
> 
> The Shadow in the Warp - Perils is indeed all 3 dice. No discarding of the lowest.
> 
> Boneswords - disallow armour saves and if a wound is inflicted then a Ld test must be passed to avoid Instant Death. If a pair of Boneswords, Ld test is taken on 3d6.
> 
> Carnifexes - ...hold onto your butts... must be armed identically when in Broods.
> 
> Tervigon - is a HQ that spawns Termagants.
> 
> Looks like we have our 20 shot weapon.
> 
> Tyrannofex - No name yet, but I really do think that it must be the "Thorax Swarm" - S4 AP5 Assault 20
> 
> Latest word from the Hive Mind is that Hive Tyrants come with WS8 as standard, Swarmlord WS9.Latest word from the Hive Mind is that Hive Tyrants come with WS8 as standard, Swarmlord WS9.
> 
> And other new stuff, from BramGaunt on Warseer:
> 
> Some of this has been posted before, I'll post it again, plus all I remember.
> 
> 
> Generel rules:
> 
> Synapse Creatures
> 
> units within 12 inches are fearless. No eternal warrior.
> 
> Feral behaviour: each tyranid unit not in range of a Synapse creature has to pass a morale check or falls back to instinctive behaviour. Melee-creatures move as fast as possible to the next enemy, while shooting creatures go for the next cover and shoot at the nearest enemies. What they do is said in their entries.
> 
> Weapons: Weaponsymbionts are no longer modified by the creature they weald it. There are heavy variants of most of them for the bigger creatures.
> 
> Venom Cannon: uses 3" blast now. They suffer a additional -1 penalty against vehicles. So, a glancing hit is - 3, a penetration - 1. You can wrec vehicles with this weapon now =)
> 
> Heavy Venom Canon: S9, same as above.
> 
> Scything Talons: One pair of tham grants you rerolls on all 1's you roll to hit, two pairs allow you to reroll all of them. Bonesword causes instant death, as long as you do not pass a morale check after suffering a wound. If you bear two pairs, the morale check is made with 3 dice.
> 
> Tentacle whip: reduces the initiative of all models attacking the bearer to 1.
> 
> Crusher Claws grant d3 additional attacks.
> 
> Lots more similar changes.
> 
> 
> Biomorphs:
> 
> They grant general special abilities now.
> 
> Examples: Toxic Glands grant you poisonod attacks (4+), adrenalin grants furious charge, etc. A injector grants Instant death on each to wound roll of 6. I don't remember them all, though.
> 
> Units:
> 
> HQ: Hive Tyrant, Alpha Warrior, Tervigon. Named ones: A special Hive Tyrant, already mentioned, and a parasite-spreading winged horror.
> 
> Hive Tyrant: Initiative 6, Weaponskill 8. Starts of with a pair of cything talons, a tentacle whip and a Bonesword. Might be given wings or heavy carapace (2+ armour save)
> 
> May chose from 4 different psychic powers:
> Mental scream:
> all enemy units within 18 " have to pass a morale check. if they fail it, they suffer the difference between the roll and their morale characteristic as casulties with no armour saves allowed.
> 
> Lifeleech: one unit within 12 " suffer D3 autohits S3 AP2. for each casulty they suffer, the Hive Tyrant is granted one life point, up to a maximum of 10.
> 
> One that forces a unit to do a morale check or to fall back.
> 
> One shooting attack.
> 
> He might be given tactical advances, as for example to grant one standard unit outflank and +1 to reserve rolls.
> 
> Has lots of wapons available.
> 
> 
> The special Hive Tyrant has Weaponskill 9. Wardsaves passed against wounds from him have to be rerolled.
> 
> He may buff one unit within 18 inches with prefered enemy, furious charge or two other special abilities.
> 
> 
> Alpha Warrior:
> 
> Weaponskill 6, which he passes to a unit of warriors he joins.
> 
> Tervigon: Creates 3d6 termagaunts with standard loadout each movement phase, even if he's in close combat.
> 
> If he dies, gaunts near him suffer heavy losses.
> 
> He has his own psychic powers, though i don't remember them.
> 
> 
> The horror is a hit and run monster with wings. Each enemy unit outflanking may suffer casualties: your oponent names one model within the unit, it has to pass a toughness test. if it fails it is killed and the tyranidplayer gets D6 Ripperswarms. He may do thesame to victims he kills in close combat.
> 
> Each Hive Tyrant may be given a Tyrant guard.
> 
> Elite
> 
> Hive Guard: up to 3 per unit, Ballistic skill of 4.
> 
> their weapons are 24 inches, S8, AP4 and assault 2.
> 
> 
> Lictors: 1 - 3 per slot, they act together as one unit. Deployed like marbo.
> still grant +1 to reserve rolls. Deep striking units do not scatter if deployed within 6 inces of a lictor, as long as he was on the table for at least one turn.
> 
> Ymgarls Genestealers:
> 
> They are NOT a named unit. basically, they are Genestealers, which can morph: they may increase their Attacks, Toughness or strength characteristic at the beginning of each close combat phase.
> 
> they have the rule "hibernation": note one piece of terrain. whey the genestealers become available, they are placed in this piece of terrain. they may move, shoot and charge.
> 
> Unit size 5 - 10, no broodlord for them.
> 
> Zoanthropes:
> Warp field grants 3+ ward save.
> have to psycic powers: warp lightning and warp lance. warp lightning is S6 AP3 3 blaste, while the warp lance is S10 DS 2 Assault 1, lance at 18 inches.
> 
> squads of 3.
> 
> There is a named Zoanthrope which is a real pain in the ass for everyone, leachinglots of lifepoints with a strong 5 " template shooting attack.
> 
> The death leaper is his own elite choice, named. WS9, Initiative 7. Me is deployed like a lictor, but may retreat and be replaced text turn.
> 
> 
> 
> Core
> 
> Hormagaunts:
> Weapon skill 3, S3, Initiative 5, 2 attacks.
> 
> Infantery.
> 
> May be given poison glands and adrenalin. Unit size 10 - 30
> 
> Gaunts:
> come with.... no idea what the weapon is named in english, but it's S4 AP 5 assault 1.
> For each 10 gaunts, one may be upgraded with a S2 flamethrower that wounds against the strength characteristig.
> 
> Warriors: Weapon skill 5, lots of options. 4+ Armour save.
> If led by a Alpha warrior they take up his Weaponskill.
> 
> Genestealers: Mostly the same as before, less options. Point cost lower than Grey hunters, though. No way to boost their armour save.
> 
> Have infiltrators and fleet.
> 
> Broodlord comes with his old profile, at a point cost of a longang with a heavy boltgun.
> May have two psycic powers: Confusion, which makes both player roll a D6 and add the morale characteristics of a model chosen by the tyranid player. If the result of the tyranid player is the same or higher, the chosen miniature may not attack in this close combat phase.
> The other ability reduces the morale characteristic of surrounding enemies by 1.
> 
> Assault:
> Winged warriors are assault.
> 
> Gargoyles: we knewe about them.
> 
> Harpies:
> The Harpie is a flying, Trygon-sized creature that acts as a bomber. It may deploy Spore mines at a unit it flies over. Is a monstrous creature.
> 
> Raveners: come with two pairs of scything talons. May have a thorax swarm: thorax swarms are a special weapon, the ammunition is chosen at the beginnig of the game. 3 different flamer variants.
> 
> Heavy Support:
> Carnifexes: In squads of three. Have to carry the same loadout.
> 
> You cannot boost their initiative, and I am almost sure that you cannor surpass 3+ Armour save.
> when charging, carnifexes increase their initiative by t. If you buy them adrenaline ,that grants you Initiative 4 and strength 10. They still have 9 in the profile.
> Carnifexes start with two pairs of scything talons and 4 attacks.
> 
> Trygon: WS6, S6, 6 Lifepoints and 6 attacks.
> 
> Has a shooting attack, S6, ap5, assault 6, 12 " range.
> 
> If upgraded to a Alpha Trygon, he has 18 " and assault 12.
> 
> Tyrannofex: My favorite. a walking weapon battery.
> 
> Weapons are: Fleshborer swarm, S4 ap 5 assault 20
> 
> pyroacid spray: S6 ap 4 flamer templated, used exactly like the hellhound.
> 
> Capsule cannon: S10, AP4, assault 2, 48 " range.
> 
> unneccesary to mention that he's a monstrous creature with high toughness.


... scary.


----------



## bobss

Holy Jesus... thats _alot_ of stuff.....:laugh::so_happy:

+Rep just for it :laugh:

As for the new conversions, Im generally pleased in a quite way, but Ive barely read it yet:grin:


----------



## flankman

most of these things are quite overwhelming, and some of them seem like well,,,,fake?


----------



## Warlock in Training

Some of that is WAY OVER the TOP. Seriously some seem awsome and plausible others seem to be people talking out of their ass.


----------



## Katie Drake

Just cleaned up my post and edited out a lot of stuff that I didn't intend to be there in the first place. It should be a lot easier to understand now.

Katie D


----------



## flankman

Warlock in Training said:


> Some of that is WAY OVER the TOP. Seriously some seem awsome and plausible others seem to be people talking out of their ass.


i'm assuming that alot of it are translation problems, but ya i mean cmon life drain on tyrands and zoans seems a tad op (tho at that range it el probably only get used once)


----------



## bishop5

That sounds extremely awesome. 

I do like the sound of the huge new 'nids. Do want.


----------



## Talos

While some of it does seem over the top I think most should be true. It comes from a good source and with the nid codex less than a month away I am inclined to believe it.
The codex should be at stores soon so i guess we can have a look.
I like the idea of the thing that spawns gaunts.
This almost makes me what to start a nid army but dont know if I could every do another horde army painting 170 ork boyz showed me that.


----------



## Winterous

:shok:
DUDE, PSYCHIC POWERS, OMG, SRSLY, WTF?
3D6 TERMAGAUNTS A TURN?

OH GOD MY DROOL GOD MY CAPS KEY STUCK DOWN D:


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

O_O
Can't wait to get my hands on the new Codex now!! =D


----------



## flankman

oh ya well,,,,,,,,,,i cant wait even more!

ok actually i'm dead broke so i cant rlly afford these awesome new models


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

I'm not buying any because I'm starting Space Wolves and need all the cash I can get. Though I must admit, these Tyranid rules are looking very nice, and I might slow down the Wolves so I can paint and convert my Nid force :grin:


----------



## Gold170492

Got some hard facts for ya. Just got the Jan White Dwarf and with the Trygon you can make 3 varients. A Trygon, a Trygon Prime (which is a boosted Trygon with Synapse (or how ever you spell it)) and a Mawloc (which when it deepstrikes and hits a unit the unit suffers a S6 AP2 per mdel thats hit). Im not sure if this works for all 3 but the Mawloc and deff go back under ground and deepstrike again. Thats what stood out for me (hav'nt read it all yet). any questions and ill try and find it out for people (if its in the White Dwarf).


----------



## Katie Drake

Question - is there any mention of "Alpha" variants of other creatures like Tyranid Warriors and Broodlords?


----------



## Gold170492

Katie Drake said:


> Question - is there any mention of "Alpha" variants of other creatures like Tyranid Warriors and Broodlords?


Nope, no sight or sound of other Alpha varients that I could see. But they could of just not written about them, so dont quote me on that.


----------



## flankman

wtb more leaks (or better explained ones )


----------



## Winterous

flankman said:


> wtb more leaks (or better explained ones )


WTB time machine.


----------



## flankman

will it fit 2?


----------



## Winterous

flankman said:


> will it fit 2?


Doesn't need to, my plan is to go back in time, and draw "lawl" on the cover of the Nid codex just as they're about to print it.
Then everyone will know my wrath!

Oh, and grab a copy while I'm there.


----------



## H0RRIDF0RM

Katie Drake said:


> Got all this from BOLS.
> 
> 
> 
> ... scary.


Hahaha there's either a lot lost in translation or this is non sense or maybe I'm wrong and the nids book will be the one codex to rule them all.

Either way my pal is trying to get me a book and this weekend is when I'm going to check in with him. So I cross my fingers


----------



## Warlock in Training

Just like Space Puppies there will be certain Builds that will RULE and others that will allow alot to be desired.


----------



## Katie Drake

Alright peeps, here's the comprehensive gathering of info found on BOLS.



> The Shadow in the Warp is 12" range ability: roll psychic tests on 3d6 (all 3, don't discard the lowest), Perils of the Warp on double 1 or 6. Free for Hive Tyrant, Tyranid Warriors and Trygon Alpha.
> 
> Pyrovore: Template is S:6 AP:4.
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> Synapse Creatures
> Units within 12 inches are fearless. No more Eternal Warrior.
> 
> Instictive Behavior
> Each Tyranid unit not in range of a Synapse creature has to pass a morale check or falls back to instinctive behaviour. Melee-creatures move as fast as possible to the next enemy, while shooting creatures go for the next cover and shoot at the nearest enemies. What they do is said in their entries.
> 
> Bio-Weapons
> Weapon symbionts are no longer modified by the creature that wields it. There are heavy variants of most of them for the bigger creatures.
> 
> Venom Cannon: 3" blast now. They suffer a additional -1 penalty against vehicles. So, a glancing hit is - 3, a penetration - 1. So vehicles can now be wrecked with this weapon.
> 
> Heavy Venom Canon: S:9, same as above.
> 
> Scything Talons: One pair of tham grants rerolls on all 1's rolled to hit. Two pairs allow you to reroll all failed to hits.
> 
> Bonesword: Causes instant death, if the target fails a morale check after suffering a wound. If you bear two pairs, the morale check is made on 3d6.
> 
> Tentacle Whip: Reduce the initiative of all models attacking the user to 1.
> 
> Crushing Claws: D3 additional attacks.
> 
> Biomorphs
> These grant USRs.
> 
> Examples: Toxic Glands grant poisoned attacks (4+). Adrenalin Glands grant furious charge. An Injector grants Instant Death on each to wound roll of 6. There are many more.
> 
> Units
> 
> Headquarters
> Hive Tyrant, Alpha Warrior, Tervigon.
> Named HQs: A special Hive Tyrant, A parasite-spreading winged horror.
> 
> Hive Tyrant: Initiative 6, WS:8. Starts of with a pair of Scything talons, a Tentacle whip and a Bonesword. May be given wings or heavy carapace (2+ armour save). May be given a Tyrant guard.
> 
> Hive Tyrant variant called the Swarmlord. Armed with 4 Boneswords (see rules above), and loaded up with special rules but costs more than a Land Raider.
> 
> 
> May chose from 4 different psychic powers:
> 
> -Mental Scream: All enemy units within 18 " have to pass a morale check. if they fail it, they suffer the difference between the roll and their morale characteristic as casulties with no armour saves allowed.
> -Lifeleech: One unit within 12 " suffers D3 S:3 AP:2 hits. For each casualty they suffer, the Hive Tyrant gains one wound, up to a maximum of 10.
> -Power 3: Forces a unit to pass a morale check or to fall back.
> -Power 4: A shooting attack.
> 
> Tyrant may be given special abilities, such as the bility to grant another unit outflank and +1 to reserve rolls.
> 
> Many weapon options available.
> 
> Special Hive Tyrant: WS:9. Invulnerable saves passed versus wounds inflicted by him must be re-rolled. He may give one unit within 18" Prerfered enemy, Furious charge or two other USRs.
> 
> Alpha Warrior: WS:6, granted to any unit of Warriors he joins.
> 
> Tervigon: Creates 3d6 Termagaunts with standard loadout each movement phase, even in close combat. If killed, gaunts nearby suffer heavy losses. It has its own psychic powers.
> 
> The Horror "The Parasite of Mortrex": Winged hit-and-run monster. Every enemy unit outflanking may suffer casualties. The outflanking unit picks one model, and must pass a toughness test. If failed the model is removed and the Tyranid player gets D6 Ripper swarms. The Horros does the same to victims he kills in assault.
> 
> Elites
> Hive Guard: Unit size 1-3, BS:4 Weapons are 24" S:8 AP:4 Assault 2.
> 
> Lictors: 1-3 per FOC slot, acting together as one unit. Lictors deploy like Marbo. Grant +1 to reserve rolls. Deep striking units do not scatter if deployed within 6 inces of a Lictor, as long as it was on the table for at least one turn.
> 
> Ymgarl Genestealers: Biomorphable Genestealers. They may increase Attacks, Toughness, or Strength at the beginning of each assault phase. "Hibernation" rule: Pick a piece of terrain. When the Genestealers enter play, they are placed in the selected terrain. The unit may move, shoot and charge. Unit size: 5-10. No Broodlord option.
> 
> Zoanthropes: Unit size 1-3. Warp field grants 3+ invulnerable save.
> Two psychic powers:
> -Warp lightning: S:6 AP:3 3 blast
> -Warp lance: 18" S:10 AP:2 Assault 1, lance
> 
> Special Zoanthrope "The Doom of Malantai": Leeches wounds with a powerful 5" blast shooting attack. S is equal to current number of Wounds, max of 10.
> 
> Death Leaper: WS:9, I:7. Deployed like a lictor, but may retreat and be replaced text turn. ~???
> 
> Troops
> Hormagaunts: WS:3, S:3, I:5, A:2. Infantry. May be given poison and adrenalin glands. Unit size 10-30
> 
> Gaunts: Weapon is S:4 AP:5 Assault 1. For each 10 gaunts, one may be upgraded to a S:2 template that wounds against the target's Strength ~Sounds like tanglewebs return.
> 
> Warriors: WS:5, Many options. 4+ Armor save.
> 
> Genestealers: Mostly the same, but with less options. Cheaper than Grey Hunters, though. Armor save canot be increased. Infiltrate and Fleet.
> 
> Broodlord retains his statline, at a point cost of a Long Fang with a heavy bolter.
> May have two psychic powers:
> -Confusion: Both players roll a D6 and add the Ld of a model chosen by the Tyranid player. If the Tyranid total is the same or higher, the enemy targeted model may not attack in this close combat phase.
> -Ability 2: Reduces the Ld of surrounding enemies by 1.
> 
> Fast Attack
> Winged Warriors
> 
> Gargoyles:
> Harpies: Flying, Trygon-sized creature that acts as a bomber. It drops Spore mines on a unit it flies over. Monstrous creature.
> 
> Raveners: Two pairs of scything talons. May have a thorax swarm: a special weapon, with ammo chosen at the start of the game. Three flamer variants.
> 
> Heavy Support
> Carnifexes: Unit size: 1-3. Must have the same loadout. Cannot boost initiative, probably cannot improve armor past 3+. Gain +1 I when charging. Adrenaline glands give I:4 and S:10. Basic WS:3 S:9, W:4 2 pairs of scything talons, A:4.
> 
> Trygon: WS:6, S:6, W:6 A:6. Shooting attack: 12" S:6, AP:5 Assault 6. Deep Strike. Trygon cannot assault a unit he Deeps Strikes onto. Follows the same rules as Drop Pods, i.e. stopping within 1".
> If upgraded to a Alpha Trygon, weapon becomes 18" Assault 12.
> 
> Tyrannofex: Walking weapon battery.
> -Fleshborer swarm: S:4 AP:5 Assault 20
> -Pyroacid spray: S:6 AP:4 template, used like the IG Hellhound.
> -Capsule cannon: 48' S:10, AP:4, Assault 2
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> Dedicated Transports
> 
> Spore Capsule: Many units may purchase a Spore Capsule. Occupancy:1 Monstrous Creature, or 20 Infantry. Deep Strike. Disembarking unit may not move or assault. It may shoot.
> 
> STATLINE: WS:2 BS:2. T:5-6 W:3 A:3 S:6.
> Weapon: 6" S:6 Assault 6.


Enjoy!

Katie D


----------



## CQBean

Dont forget to add the crystals...


----------



## bobss

Isn`t the Trygon`s shooting attack something similar to Bio-Plasma?

Anyway, I saw the Gargoyles today and they look awesome, though the wings wont fit warriors.... :'(


----------



## Katie Drake

bobss said:


> Isn`t the Trygon`s shooting attack something similar to Bio-Plasma?


I thought it was some kind of electrical field that the Trygon could discharge at its enemies.


----------



## betrayer01

For those who are interested I randomly managed to pickup a Trygon model from my local Toymaster store. below are the sprue shots:



















Enjoy


----------



## bobss

What the FUCK!?

Oh, ive seen the sprues and they are nice, but as for Toymaster... wow lol


----------



## Katie Drake

Now I want a Toymaster in my town.


----------



## MaidenManiac

Those Toymaster guys will be sooooo popular if GW finds out

Grats to you though, and neat pics:grin:


----------



## Concrete Hero

Noooooooo! I just moved back up to North Wales for Christmas, I lived right next to a Toymaster in Cardiff...


----------



## bobss

An emplyer at GW told me you can make 4 Ravenors with the kit...

Can anyone see any sparebitz that would allow you to make 4?


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

The codex is starting to sound a little like the CSM one. I'm praying that doesn't happen.


----------



## Katie Drake

From Warseer



> Hey guys. So I got to do a little light bug related Codex reading today ^.^ I know you have all kinds of rumors collected already but I'm gonna write it
> 
> all anyway. This is what i remember from the Codex. As always if you don't belive me your own fault.
> And I am doing this after maybe hour of reading. So don't stone me if I get some WS or the names wrong or smth
> 
> Additionally thank you to all you guys out there who helped me with the proper names. And again, this stuff is true, but it is based on my memory so there of course may be minor mistakes.
> 
> I marked the second wave of changes green
> 
> Tyranid army rules:
> - Synapse creature is pretty much the same except, and I cannot stretch that enough, NO more eternal warrior and before you ask: no nowhere, not on
> 
> Genestealers, not on Hive Tyrants not on Trygons NOWHERE
> - there are no boss biker like wound groups for tyranids. Squads all need to take most weapon and morphes or none
> - Instinctive behavior is split into 2 classes of Tyranids:
> Lurkers: instantly take cover and shoot at the next target when they fail their check
> Hunters: get the "blood lust" rule from te rulebook (always move and assault next enemy)
> - Tyranids don't suffer normal warp attacks when rolling 1,1 or 6,6 on Psychic powers
> - Tyranids never have additional close combat weapons, their profile is all they get
> 
> I'll get all the weapons and morphs out of the way first and ten just list the name in the entries.
> 
> Weapons:
> (all weapons are assault so I'm not gonna mention that every time), I may have missed one or two simply because there are to many ^^
> 
> Venom Cannon:
> R 36 S 6 AP 4 Assault 1 Blast
> get -1 on the vehicle damage chart
> 
> Heavy Venom Cannon:
> R 48 S 9 AP 4 Assault 1 Blast
> get -1 on the vehicle damage chart
> 
> Barbed Strangler:
> R 24 S 4 AP 6 Assault 1 Large Blast
> 
> Stranglethorn Cannon:
> R 36 S 6 AP 4 Assault 1 Large Blast
> 
> Fleshborers:
> R 18 S 4 AP 5 Assault 1
> 
> Spinefists:
> R 18 S 4 AP 5 Assault X (X= Number of Attacks), always twinlinked
> 
> Sting blaster:
> R 12 S 5 AP - Assault 1
> 
> Spike rifle
> R 18 S5 AP 5 Assault 4
> 
> Devourer
> R 18 S 3 AP 6 Assault 2
> 
> 
> Texorin Bugs:
> 3 fire modes, may be fired additionally to all oter weapons
> R Flaming S * AP - Assault 1, allways wounds on 2+ against non Tanks
> R Flaming S 5 AP 5 Assault 1
> R Flaming S 3 AP 6 Assault 1, rending
> 
> Death blasters:
> R 18 S 5 AP 5 Assault 1, Blast
> 
> Biomorphs:
> 
> Toxin Sacs:
> ALL units may buy these, the squad gains poison attacks (4+)
> 
> Adrenal Gland:
> ALL units may buy these, the squad gains Furious Charge
> 
> Spore launcher:
> Grants offensive grenades (only bigbugs)
> 
> Injectors:
> On a roll of 6 To Wound, the target suffers Instant Death if they fail their saving throw.
> 
> Flesh hooks:
> Weapon R 6 S 5 AP - Assault 2
> 
> Various types of chitin:
> Ranging from 6+ Armor save to 2+
> 
> Toxic blood:
> When a model with Acid Blood loses a wound in close combat the model that caused the wound must pass an Initiative test or suffer a wound with no armor saves allowed. Vehicles take a glancing hit on a roll of 4+.
> 
> (Eldar scream huray)
> 
> Toxic miasma:
> All enemy units in CC range with this model must take a T check or lose one wound with armor saves allowed. (Eldar don't scream huray any more )
> 
> 
> Lashwhips:
> All enemy units in CC wit this model have I 1
> 
> Boneswords:
> A model losing a wound by a horn sword must pass an LD test or suffers Instant Death. If the wound was caused by a pair of bone swords he must use 3D6 for the check
> 
> Scything talons:
> Models with scything claws may reroll 1s to hit, models wit a pair may reroll all to hit rolls
> 
> Rending claws:
> give rending rule in CC
> 
> Crushing Claws:
> Give +D3 attacks and lower own I to 1
> 
> Regeneration:
> At the start of each turn the model recovers a wound on a 6
> 
> Wings:
> Model moves as jump infantry.
> 
> HQ:
> 
> Hive Tyrant:
> - has WS 8
> - Old profiles
> - No ward save as far as I recall
> - Shadows of warp: All psychers using their powers within 12 must roll 3D6, double 6 or 1 still result in an attack from the warp
> - comes with scything talons and can equip about any weapon and morph in the book
> - may have two of the following psychic powers for free:
> The Horror: One enemy unit within 18 must take a panic test
> Life leech: R 18 unit recieves D3 S 3 hits no AS, hive regains one wound for every lost wound caused this way
> warp scream: R 12 enemy units WS and BS is reduced to 1 for 1 round
> Dominate: Hive tyrants synapse range is 18 inches for one round
> - May buy any number of these abilities for some points:
> Unspeakable Horror: Units wishing to charge or shoot at the hive must pass an LD check or........ well Not shoot/attack
> Vicious mind: A core unit may flank and you get +1 to all reserve rolls
> Ancient enemy: All Tyranid units within 6 have the Preferred Enemy rule
> - May still buy a set of guards who stayed pretty much the same except their stuff does different things now (see biomorphs) and they have 2 wounds and get furious assault and blood lust when Papa is taken down
> 
> Tervigon:
> WS 3 BS 3 S 6 T 6 W 4 I 1 A3 LD 10 AS 2+
> 
> - may spawn 3D6 termagants per movement phase which may be activated as normal, but on a double number he can no longer spawn anything for the rest of the game.
> - has spike blasters, is monstrous
> - termagants within 6 may use his LD and gain counterstrike
> - Has dominate psi power and may exchange it for:
> The catalyst: a unit within 12 gains feel no pain
> The force: unit within 12 may run/sprint AND shoot
> 
> Alpha Tyranid Warrior:
> WS 6 BS 5 S 5 T 5 W 4 I 5 A 4 LD 10 AS 4+
> - synapse creature, shadow of warp
> - may buy almost everything except the REALY heavy stuff
> - tyranid warriors in his unit may use his WS and I
> 
> Elite:
> 
> Hive Guards:
> WS 4 BS 4 S 5 T 6 W 2 I 2 A 3 LD 7 AS 3+
> - Carry Harpoons: R 48 S 8 AP 4 Assault 2, don't require LOS (just like smart missile systems of the Tau)
> - may buy some biomorps like crushing claws and stuff
> 
> 
> Lictors:
> - have 3 wounds now
> - Have Stealth and Move Through Cover
> - Gives +1 to reserve rolls and acts as an teleport homer within 6
> - Appears anywhere on the table when available but may not move or charge that turn
> - Has rending claws and AP and scything talons
> 
> Zoanthropes:
> - have only 5+ armor but 3+ Invulnerable save
> - same profiles
> - have two psychic powers
> warp lightning: R 24 S 5 AP 3 Explosive 1
> Warp Lance: R 18 S 10 AP 1 Assault 1, Lance
> - Don't pay for psychic powers any more so relatively cheap
> 
> Toxantroph:
> - Zorantroph profiles only with 2 attacks
> - has tentacle whips and toxic Miasma
> - has poison attacks 2+
> - all tyranid units within 6 gain a 5+ cover save, defesive granades and every enemy that charges them must test for dangerous terrain
> 
> Pyrovore:
> - Biovore profile only 3 wounds
> - his attacks CC ignore armor saves
> - as a heavy flamer
> - when killed outright explodes in flaming acid and damages everyone around
> 
> Troop:
> 
> Tyranid Warriors:
> - 3 wounds now
> - scything talons as a basic
> - may get all weapons except for the REALLY heavy ones
> - may have 2 melee biomorphes (check all the clwas in the list) even boneswords or pairs of boneswords
> - synapse creatures ofc
> 
> Hormagaunts:
> - NO longer may charge 12
> - very cheap
> - 2A profile
> - fleet with 3D6 and use the highest result
> 
> Termagaunts:
> - even cheaper
> - have two individual weapons
> Toxic stinger: R 18 S 3 AP 6 Assault 1
> Grapling choker: R Flaming S 2 AP - Assault 1, wounds against S not T
> - every unit allows one Tervigon to be played as core
> 
> Genestealers:
> - same profile
> - not subjected to instinctive behavior
> - may buy a Brood Lord for almost 50 points who has more W, S, T, A, LD, WS....everything ^^
> may have one of two psychic powers: one that makes genestealers count as having frag granades and one that may hypnotise , meaning bot roll an D6 and add their LD. If you are higher, the enemy may not attack
> may buy some biomorphs like toxic blood
> 
> ripper swarms:
> - may deep strike
> - when they fail instinctive behavior they eat each other (one wound per point failed)
> - not very expensive
> 
> 
> Fast Attack:
> 
> Winged Tyranid Warriors:
> - only 5 points more expensive than normal ones but worse AS (5+)
> - fly obv ^^
> - no options to medium heavy weapons
> 
> Gargoyles:
> - SO cheap they make stormboyz seem like grey knights against them
> - have FANTASY poison attacks in CC
> - Termagant profiles
> - have bug throwers
> - fly ofc
> 
> Harpy:
> WS 3 BS 4 S 6 T 5 W 4 I 5 A 3 LD 7 AS 4+
> - monstrous creature, flyes, has a twinlinked Stranglethorn Cannon
> - every unit he charges gains -1 I
> - may shoot 3 spore mine on a unit he flyes over (like screamers) which causes a great blast S4 or 5 (don't remember) or three spore mines if he misses
> 
> Winged ripper swarms:
> - well they are ripper swarms with wings, what else is there to say? ^^
> 
> Bulk of spore mines:
> - 3-6
> - deep strike and... well what do spore mines do? land somewhere and explode near smth
> - explode in large blast S 4 AP 4 per guy
> 
> Raveners:
> - still beasts
> - 3 wounds WS 5 and 4 A profile
> - scyting claws and wrenching claws as a given with a few options for exchange
> 
> 
> Heavy support:
> 
> Carnifex:
> WS 3 BS 3 S 9T 6 W 4 I 1 A 4 LD 6 AS 3+
> - may be taken in squads of 1-3
> - pretty expensive
> - need I to mention that tey may buy freaking EVERYTING?
> - no more profile upgrades
> - have "Bulldozer Rule" that gives them +2 I on charge
> - Have Bio-plasma which is a shooting attack R 12 S 7 AP 2 Explosive 1
> 
> Trigon:
> WS 5 BS 4 S 6 T 6 W 6 I 4 A 6 LD 8 AS 3+
> - may sprint
> - may deep strike and leaves behind a tunnel through which other units may deep strike in subsequent turns
> - may NOT charge the turn he deep strikes
> - bio electric field has R 12 S 6 AP - Assault 6
> - may be upgraded to alpha in which case he is a synapse creature, has LD 10, has shadow of warp, and is bio electric field has Assault 12
> - slightly more expensive than a carnifex
> 
> Mawloc:
> WS 3 BS 0 S 6 T 6 W 6 I 4 A 3 LD 9 AS 3+
> - may deep strike, if he apears under a unit he places a large template there which has S 6 AP 2 ten moves all remaining models aside and is placed there (not in CC)
> - has fall back and sprint rule
> - may dig himself in again if he is not in CC in your movement to automaticly reapear in your next movement phase
> 
> Biovores:
> - pretty cheap
> - may shott one spore mine each that explode like descrbed above
> 
> Tyrofex:
> WS 3 BS 3 S 6 T 6 W 6 1 A3 LD 10 AS 2+
> - monstrous
> - has Texorin Bugs and ONE of the 3 following weapons :
> R 48 S 10 AP 4 Assault 2
> R 36 S 4 AP 5 Assault 20
> R Flaming S 5 AP 4 Assault 1, is shot like the inferno cannon of the imperial hellhound
> 
> Stuff I missed so far:
> 
> Mycetic Spore:
> WS 2 BS 2 S 6 T 4 W 3 I 1 A2 LD 4 AS 5+
> - deep strikes
> - may be bought as an transport option for most units (not trigon, Mawloc, Venators, everything with wings)
> - may carry 20 infantry guys or one monstrous creature
> - may shoot: R 6 S 6 AP - Assault 3
> - may not move
> - has tentacle whips
> 
> 
> Special Chars
> First on No EXACT profiles here. I spent more attention on the rest of the list.
> 
> The Swarmlord (HQ):
> - bigger bader Hive Tyrant
> - Carries two enhanced boneswords
> - Whirl of blades: has a 4+ ward save in CC
> - May use two psychic powers per turn
> - may give one unit within 12 counterstrike, furious assault or sharp senses for one round
> 
> One Eye (heavy support):
> - Carnifex char
> - Regenerates on 5+
> - has a small temper problem which lets him get additional attacks for hit "basic attacks" and sometimes go berserk[/color]
> - units within 12 may use his LD
> 
> Horror of Malanai (Elite):
> - has stat line pretty similar to an alpha warrior with T 4
> - Supersonic scream: Every enemy unit within 6 must take an LD test with 3D6 and lose the amount of wounds they failed it by
> - whenever he causes wounds in any way he gains one wound up to the max of 10
> - Has S X where X is the number of his wounds
> - Psychic storm: can fire multiple DS 3 bolts with S equal to his wounds (so X)
> 
> Death Leaper (Elite):
> - better Liktor
> - has some "disappear again" rule like the old sly marbo
> - VERY good at backstabbing people
> - VERY good at scaring people from behind for no reason ^.^
> 
> Terror of Mantrax (HQ):
> - larger gargoyl
> - may shoot parasites at enemies tat can turn them into ripper swarms
> - every enemy non tank model that flanks must take a T test or become a ripper swarms if they fail
> 
> Ymgarl Genestealers (Elite):
> - Genestealers which can Either morph up their S, T or A by one at the beginning of their turn
> - may start in "tranquil rest" which means they can ambush from a certain piece of terrain instead of beeing deployed (pretty likely to the old catachans)


Katie D


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

The more I hear, the more I like! Can't wait for it!!


----------



## Winterous

*twitch*

*drool*


----------



## bobss

Boneswords seem badass! as do Warriors in core...

I can`t wait to get the `dex to check out this 'Harpy' thing...


----------



## Munky

Wow sound very cool, with lots of scope to comvert gribbly beasties......i like it a lot.


----------



## Coffeemug

Im glad I magnetized my army. Less things to break appart.

Looks like ill be buyin more modles too. lol

I thought 6 fexes and 2 tyrants would be enough!!!!!!

Im a bit bummed about the ranged weapons but im sure ill get over it with all the claws you can use.:good:


----------



## Warlock in Training

Horror of Malanai (Elite):
- has stat line pretty similar to an alpha warrior with T 4
- Supersonic scream: Every enemy unit within 6 must take an LD test with 3D6 and lose the amount of wounds they failed it by
- whenever he causes wounds in any way he gains one wound up to the max of 10
- Has S X where X is the number of his wounds
- Psychic storm: can fire multiple DS 3 bolts with S equal to his wounds (so X)



Is it me or does this thing sound like a LOAD of BS? Whenever he causes wounds he gains a wound to max of 10, and sonic scream causes LD check with 3D^ and a wound for each point failed by. WTF, I call BS. That is the most balance breaking unit I ever heard of. Why not give the Nids a Bio Titan to use in standard games as well.:suicide:


----------



## bobss

Im tempted to have a squad of 15 'Devourgaunts' i.e. Termagaunts with Devourers, near a Venomthrope, thus getting a 5+ cover save and the other whatnot. Could just stick them on the board and start cutting down guard by the dozen, and if they get shot at they have a decent cover save. If they get charged then the Venomthrope takes away the advantages of the charge(?) plus they have to make a test for dangerous terrain and then he gets to work slicing them up. Sounds good.


----------



## darklove

I held the new Trigon in my own hands today... It is super sweet, a really nice looking model. I think everyone will get one, even if they don't use in their army, just because it is so nice.


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## Katie Drake

Warlock in Training said:


> Horror of Malanai (Elite):
> - has stat line pretty similar to an alpha warrior with T 4
> - Supersonic scream: Every enemy unit within 6 must take an LD test with 3D6 and lose the amount of wounds they failed it by
> - whenever he causes wounds in any way he gains one wound up to the max of 10
> - Has S X where X is the number of his wounds
> - Psychic storm: can fire multiple DS 3 bolts with S equal to his wounds (so X)
> 
> 
> 
> Is it me or does this thing sound like a LOAD of BS? Whenever he causes wounds he gains a wound to max of 10, and sonic scream causes LD check with 3D^ and a wound for each point failed by. WTF, I call BS. That is the most balance breaking unit I ever heard of. Why not give the Nids a Bio Titan to use in standard games as well.:suicide:


Well, this particular Zoanthrope wiped out an Eldar Craftworld on its own (Craftworld Malanai) by sucking up every soul in the Infinity Circuit and then releasing an amazingly powerful blast of psychic energy.

Poor Eldar always losing Craftworlds...


----------



## bobss

> Poor Eldar always losing Craftworlds...


Yeah! Its like Dwarves in Fantasy. Whever they want to big up a new army they always kick dwarves in the teeth, by making them loose a hold. Same for Eldar loosing Craftworlds... I just hope we get some updated Info on Hive Fleet Leviathan curb-stomping the Orks in the Octavius system (That`ll shut you Ork players up for once)


----------



## Katie Drake

bobss said:


> Yeah! Its like Dwarves in Fantasy. Whever they want to big up a new army they always kick dwarves in the teeth, by making them loose a hold. Same for Eldar loosing Craftworlds... I just hope we get some updated Info on Hive Fleet Leviathan curb-stomping the Orks in the Octavius system (That`ll shut you Ork players up for once)


There's no shutting the Orks up. They live to make noise. :laugh:


----------



## World Eater XII

when does the chaos codex get an super awesome make me want to collect it dex?

On relevant note all this stuff sounds so super awesome cool!


----------



## Styro-J

Don't forget that "Horror of Malanai" guy could probably be wiped out with a single melta shot, or a Bright Lance. That is, if the no Eternal Warrior anywhere bit is true.


----------



## Concrete Hero

Warlock in Training said:


> Horror of Malanai (Elite):
> - has stat line pretty similar to an alpha warrior with T 4
> - Supersonic scream: Every enemy unit within 6 must take an LD test with 3D6 and lose the amount of wounds they failed it by
> - whenever he causes wounds in any way he gains one wound up to the max of 10
> - Has S X where X is the number of his wounds
> - Psychic storm: can fire multiple DS 3 bolts with S equal to his wounds (so X)
> 
> 
> 
> Is it me or does this thing sound like a LOAD of BS? Whenever he causes wounds he gains a wound to max of 10, and sonic scream causes LD check with 3D^ and a wound for each point failed by. WTF, I call BS. That is the most balance breaking unit I ever heard of. Why not give the Nids a Bio Titan to use in standard games as well.:suicide:


And the moaning begins...

I'm guessing, if this unit does exist, it will be a unique unit. That means it will be floating around on its own. I'm guessing it also will _not_ start out with a lot of wounds, 3 max I'm saying. And you don't even know the range of it yet! Please think a little before you go into a wailing tantrum and declaring it the most game breaking unit you've seen. What if the range is only 12"?

I'm pretty sure Lash would take care of this, and if the no eternal warrior thing is true, then it wont be hard to blast it away. Snipers? I can already think of plenty of things that could take care of this.


----------



## flankman

wow i cant wait!!!!!!!! (tho more translation things confusing me wrenching claws?) i was suprised at gaunts not getting a 12'' charge but since they are half points who cares  and improved fleet ftw


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## bobss

> And the moaning begins...


Touche. Though it probably began when Carnifex Squadrons was announced. My only piece of moaning, though I plan to play Nids is Warriors. 3 wounds, decent basic stats, a ton of upgrades, access to nearly all ranged weapons.... and Troops? As much as I dont care, it`ll only give none-Nid players a vantage point to snipe at us with...


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## Katie Drake

The Horror of Malanai is a unit upgrade that can be taken on any one unit of Zoanthropes. A _single_ Zoanthrope may be upgraded to the Horror. Like all Zoanthropes, the Horror is protected only by a 5+ armor save and a 3+ Invulnerable save. One only needs to successfully wound him with a krak missile or similar once to bring him down. There's really no need for panic.


----------



## Winterous

bobss said:


> Though it probably began when Carnifex Squadrons was announced.


HELLO FORCE WEAPONS!

Oh, and the Dire sword finally has a use, Carnifexes with Ld6?
Go go Dire Rangers!


----------



## Underground Heretic

This sounds like it will actually spur the sales of assault terminators, all to be given thunder hammers. The more I hear about the tyrannids, the more they actually seem to be a *shudder* balanced codex. I've been whining a lot myself, but with these rumors, it seems like the only MC to fear is the, I want to say unique, one that forces re-rolls of made invulnerable saves. All the other big bugs look like they could be knocked out with a thunder hammer and either wounded on a two or instant killed if they fail an invul. The horror is scary, but not as much as the 6/4 hellhound cannon. I don't play against hellhounds because there are so many marines locally, but if they used one they could wipe a squad hiding in cover with a 4+ save. Looks like the answer is either big and blasty or tough and smashy.


----------



## Styro-J

How would anything with a Dire Sword short of Asurmen, even then, think to take on a Carnifex?


----------



## Winterous

Styro-J said:


> How would anything with a Dire Sword short of Asurmen, even then, think to take on a Carnifex?


...
With Doom, which you will probably have with a squad of Dire Avengers, you have about a 30% chance to wound if you need a 6.
With 3 attacks, or 4 if you charge, and the Carnifex having WS3, so you hit on 3+.
So, assuming you charge, that's 3 hits on average, and just lower than 1 wound from that.
He has Ld6, so um, after you wound, he has a more than 50% chance of flat out DYING.
And that's before he attacks.


----------



## lokis222

Hive Tyrant – Stickmonkey tells us Tyrants are likely to get more psychic powers and a 5+inv save as default.
- WS8, I6.
- Starts of with a pair of scything talons, a tentacle whip and a Bonesword.
- May be given wings or heavy carapace (2+ armour save)
- May chose from 4 different psychic powers:
- Mental scream: all enemy units within 18" have to pass Ld check. If they fail, they suffer the difference between the roll and their Ld as casulties with no armour saves allowed.
- Lifeleech: one unit within 12 " suffer D3 autohits S3 AP2. for each casulty they suffer, the Hive Tyrant is granted one Wound, up to a maximum of 10
- One that forces a unit to do a morale check or to fall back.
- One shooting attack.
- He may be given tactical advances, for example to grant one standard unit outflank and +1 to reserve rolls.
- Has lots of weapons available.

Swarmlord - Armed with 4 Boneswords, costs more than a LR.
- WS9
- Invulnerable saves passed against Wounds from him have to be rerolled.
- He may buff one unit within 18 inches with Preferred Enemy, Furious Charge or two other special abilities.


Zoanthrope - Broods of up to 3
- Warp field grants 3+ Inv save
- Psychic powers: warp lightning and warp lance. Warp Lightning is S6 AP3 3 blast, Warp Lance is S10 AP2 Assault 1, lance at 18 inches
- Has The Shadow in the Warp standard



The Doom of Malantai - Last survivor of a swarm destroyed by the Eldar of Craft World Malantai. It sucked the souls out of the Crystal Matrix and killed almost all of its citizens.
- After using its strong 5 " template psychic shooting attack it suffers D3 wounds with no saves allowed.
- May leech up to 10 wounds, and the strength of its psychic attack increases to the number of wounds it has left
- Has The Shadow in the Warp standard

I found this one my Korean gaming group website.


----------



## bobss

Wtf? do Devourers still have the Living Amunition special rule? because by looking at their profile and comparing it to that of Spinefists, they are worse....


----------



## Katie Drake

bobss said:


> Wtf? do Devourers still have the Living Amunition special rule? because by looking at their profile and comparing it to that of Spinefists, they are worse....


Living ammo is long gone, I believe.


----------



## bobss

> Living ammo is long gone, I believe.


Dude! what the fuck? living amunition is what gave Tyranid weapons that nice bio-weapon feel. I cant believe that two small bio-weapons stuck to your hands is nastier than a great big two-handed weapon....


----------



## Sytus

Has the death of living ammunition e=been confirmed.If so, DAMN IT!They gave the nids a special kind of weapon, a bio-weapon...


----------



## Katie Drake

Sytus said:


> Has the death of living ammunition e=been confirmed.If so, DAMN IT!They gave the nids a special kind of weapon, a bio-weapon...


It hasn't been confirmed no, but there's been absolutely zero mention of the rule in all of the rumors and sneak peeks we've gotten.


----------



## KarlFranz40k

Darnit, I loved the living ammo rule, meant my termagants actually killed stuff.


----------



## flankman

whats funny is that flesh borers (from the leaks) are going to be weaker then spine fists now = / same range ap and str but no twin linked no living ammo


----------



## MaidenManiac

Found a photo of interesting stuff *here* which confirms various rumours of unit pricing...

Also found this "sum up":


> Synapse - Now it's just "Fearless." No more immunity to instant death, and it's straight fearless instead of automatically passing LD tests.
> 
> Ranged Weapon Symbiotes - As a whole, these are all nerfed. Still a prevalence of mid-strength poor AP weaponry, but with overall far fewer shots per weapon, and all strength/attack characteristics are fixed now, instead of based on creature equipping them. The Venom Cannon is now S6AP4 blast, with -1 to vehicle damage chart rolls. The Heavy Venom Cannon is expensive, limited availability, and S9AP4 blast, with -1 to vehicle damage chart rolls. I would rather have a multi-shot S10 weapon that can't pen, honestly.
> 
> HQ
> Tyrant - At a significant points cost increase, you get a de facto diresword, and you re-roll to hit rolls of "1." You get similar stats to present, but one higher iniative, and WS8 (which is kind of silly, WS7 makes more sense based on the math of the game itself). You have a ton of options, but most are highly expensive ... they range from psychic powers granting Feel No Pain to a unit for a turn (Catalyst) and other potent psy powers to tactical advantages giving TROOPS units outflank, or adding 1 to reserve rolls, etc. Wings are 60 points. They do not have an invulnerable save, are vulnerable to instant death, and barring expensive upgrades have access only to a 3+ armor save. Tyrant guard are roughly the same, but more expensive (~60 points each). No real reason given about why they're pricier.
> 
> Flying Horror - Expensive flying monster w/out a whole lot of durability. Interesting powers and what-not, most effective at shutting down outflankers. Outflanking models all have to take a T test or get turned into ripper swarms, and his victims in combat may get rendered down into rippers also. Again, like the other monsters for the most part in the dex, new cool tricks are heavily offset by high points costs and relatively low durability.
> 
> Tervigon - Probably one you'll see most often used. Rumored cost is only around 150 for a 2+ armor save, T6W4 monster with low attacks / ws / bs / I characteristics, but cool "tricks." For one, they are synaptic, for two they are an HQ but also an optional Troops choice. For every gaunt squad you take, you can take a Tervigon as a Troops choice, allowing 5 in an army for a minimum investment of 900 points (750 for the Tervigons, 150 for the minimum 3 gaunt squads at min size). Tervigons spawn 3d6 plain equipment termagants in the movement phase at will, although if they roll a double on any of the 3 dice they lose the power for the remainder of the game. Possible "gaunt farm" lists where you're spawning an average of 53 termagants per turn until your guys get ganked or burn out. Rare case of an affordable monster in the dex ... sort of. Not affordable compared to demon princes, or old nid dex costs, but at least not ridiculous (though his combat stats are lackluster at best).
> 
> Alpha Warrior - T5 and W4 with good equipment and options, WS6 and high BS that he confers to a unit of warriors if he joins them. Best use will probably be allocating single S8/9 weapon shots to him so that failed cover saves don't = dead warriors.
> 
> Swarmlord - 280 point super tyrant with 4+ invul in close combat but same durability issues at range. No higher toughness or wounds or anything, but WS9 and even higher initiative/etc. Forces 3d6 (or higher) LD test for unsuccessful saves or suffer instant death. Numerous capabilities and psychic powers, with the ability to use two psy powers per turn. At the price, again a big issue of durability with the prevalence of ranged ap3+ weaponry in the game right now.
> 
> Elite
> 
> Ymgarl Genestealers – Buffed super stealers who can add 1 to their Attacks, Strength, or Toughness at the beginning of every turn. They secretly deploy in a terrain feature and when they come in from reserves move / shoot / assault as if coming on from board edge. AWESOME, RIGHT? But wait, there’s a catch. If the enemy occupies that same terrain piece, they are destroyed.
> 
> Pyrovore – Weird choice. Most of the elite guys are sub 100 points, closer to 50 than not, and this includes the pyrovore. Walking, non-fleet heavy flamer toter with hellhound rules for shooting it. Ignores armor saves in close combat with S5, but has only 2-3 attacks and low WS. When he dies, he explodes on a 4+ for S3 AP- hits within d6”. Absurdly bad stats for a new model, kind of surprising. Doesn’t fill any new role not better filled by other Nids, and S3 AP- explosions are more likely to be harmful to nearby Tyranids than to nearby … anything else.
> 
> Lictor – Went far cheaper, but lost the key to its effectiveness. Still rending, good stats, and gains a wound, still adds +1 to reserves, and now apparently acts as a teleport homer for deep striking nids. Unfortunately, while it doesn’t scatter on deep strike and just pops up a la Marbo, it also (like Marbo) can’t assault out of deepstrike. Now an excellent unit for showing up as a teleport homer and +1 reserve roller that you get to shoot at for free for a turn, and that can’t jump out and actually do anything. May have a 6” range AP- S6 Assault 1 shot it can fire when it shows up …
> 
> Venomthrope – 3 attacks wounding on 2+ in combat; 3 wounds/T4; 5+ cover save for itself and any unit within 6”; defensive grenades for itself and any unit within 6” … no better than a 5+ cover save and vulnerable to krak missiles and anything else, and a giant fire magnet given its buff. Confusingly bad choice, not b/c its powers aren’t very good, but b/c it’s so incredibly fragile and eminently targetable.
> 
> Zoanthrope – S10AP1 18” Lance shot still only has at BS3 and requiring a psychic test around 10% chance to kill an AV12+ vehicle … 3+ invulnerable save in exchange for losing the 2+ armor save. 3 wounds but vulnerable to instant death from S8 and higher. Retains smaller warp blast “small blast” ap3 shot. Confusing selection.
> 
> Horror of Malanti (or something similar) – Variant Zoanthrope supposedly still under 100 points, though may be under 100 points as an UPGRADE to a Zoanthrope (meaning well over 100 points net). Has some pretty sick psy powers, and can “leach” itself up to 10 wounds; at least one of its powers has a strength = to the number of wounds it has. Like other Zoans, is vulnerable to instant death from S8+ weaponry, and has a 3+ invul (giving it space marine like vulnerability to small arms … in other words, high vulnerability to small arms).
> 
> Hive Guard – These guys actually look really good. About 50 points for a T6W2 BS4 2-shot S8AP4 24” range assault weapon that doesn’t require line of sight and can penetrate vehicles. This is the “obvious” transport killing selection for the nids. 150 points will net you 3 guys who can be kept in cover (their armor save is only 4+) and are pretty resilient to all forms of firepower, since they are not instant killable, and since they are high toughness vs. small arms. They’ll earn statistically reliable kills on AV12 and lower transport vehicles. Unfortunately you can only take 3 and they compete for spots with the more intriguing zoanthropes. 4+ armor save makes them far more vulnerable to combat against “tough” opponents.
> 
> Troops
> Tervigon – see HQ
> 
> Gaunts – Nerfed extensively. Instead of a 5 point spinegaunt being S3AP5 twin-linked fleet move through cover and with the ability to get without number, it’s now a 5 point Termagant being S3AP6 not twin-linked not fleet not moving through cover and no without number. Lovely. Apparently other weapon upgrades (including spinefists, lol) are very expensive relative to the cost of the gaunt.
> 
> Hormagaunts – “Buffed” in the sense that they aren’t overcosted anymore, but it’s hard to say if they’re really in line with Orks in terms of combat troops. They gain a better / more reliable fleet (3d6 pick the highest), but lose the beast charge. They lose one weapon skill, gain one initiative, and retain same number of attacks. For a few points per upgrade, they can be given furious charge and/or 4+ envenomed attacks. You’ll see them used and spammed, but I don’t know if they’re really any good still. No ability to hide any kind of better weapons in the squad means they will of course be dreadnaught bait, and tougher troop bait. The removal of a fast charge has far reaching implications in terms of the ease with which an opponent can get a reliable rapid fire / flamer blast off at them.
> 
> Warriors – Another wound, better weapon skill, similar stats otherwise. 30 points base, with scything talons (a pair of which allows you to re-roll 1’s to hit) and a relatively average anti-infantry gun. While scoring, and spammable, they are now vulnerable to instant death from S8, and there are a lot of S8 guns in the game right now. Synaptic still but highly confusing changes. Continue as a demonstration of the fact that it is nearly impossible to appropriately cost multi-wound models that aren’t hide-able (transports, perma cover save bikes, different weapons for allocation, or independent characters) and that are vulnerable to instant death.
> 
> Rippers – By the sounds of it, these are actually worse. Still vulnerable to instant death, still vulnerable to blasts/templates due to being swarms, and if they get outside of synapse and fail their LD test they actually eat each other.
> 
> Genestealers – 2 points cheaper with not a lot of upgrade options. One stealer can be turned into a broodlord with similar stats to the old HQ broodlord. Their own “hidden pfist” just … you know … with only S5. Stealers all gain infiltrate, so they can all outflank by default. Probably a much more viable option in anyone’s eyes now, except they can’t get extended carapace, so they are at best a 5+ save. Oh …
> 
> Fast Attack
> Harpy – Most hilarious ill-conceived entry in the dex. For around 150-160 points you get a flying monstrous creature that poops spore mines on enemies it flies over. Sound good? Think again. T5 W4, 4+ save, vulnerable to instant death. Ooops.
> 
> Gargoyles – Legitimate selection. Any to hit roll of 6 wounds automatically. 6 points supposedly. Flying, but no longer fleet. One might argue with their guns dropping to S3AP6, fleet going away, bio-plasma changing to just a wound on 6 to hit and a drop to 6 points = finally costing them properly, only to take away all the things that made them good … glance / immobilize threats to vehicles, high initiative s4 attacks, lots of speed with fleet, and s4 shots prior to charge. Ooops.
> 
> Flying Warriors – Warriors with less options for 5 more points.
> 
> Raveners – Extra wound, vulnerable to instant death, may be able to enter play via Trygon tunnels. Re-roll to hit, WS5, with rending, and cheap at only 30 points base. Still beast charge and fleet. May be given a cool flamer with 3 fire modes including a rending mode. May be a viable option in some builds. I personally hope so – have always loved ravs.
> 
> Heavy Support
> Carnifex – As rumored, massive increase in base cost with relatively marginal increase in stats. Can be taken in broods. Base equipment gives them a 12” range plasma cannon shot at bs3, and 5 attacks on the charge that re-roll to hit and are still S9. Highly expensive upgrades to give them a ranged weapon or a better armor save, untenably so perhaps. Can be given furious charge, and by default add +2 I when charging due to being big nasty battering ram critters. So, can potentially have 5 re-roll to hit I4 s10 attacks on the charge. Cost is the big downside, and base durability of only 6/4/3+
> 
> Mawloc / Trygon / Trygon Prime – 170/200/? Points each, Mawloc is a “blast you when I show up” burrower/reburrower with average combat stats and t6/w6/sv3+ … Trygon has same stats but better ws/I/attacks and is more expensive, and has a 6 shot s6 weapon. Trygon Prime is synaptic trygon with 12 shot weapon. All 3 apparently protected a la drop pods from deep strike mishap.
> 
> Tyrannofex – 250 points of “lolwut?” Kitbash of fex and trygon. You’re paying for 6 wounds, 2+ save, low I, BS3, low attacks, 20 shot S4AP5 gun, S5AP4 hellhound flamer, Ravener flamer, and 2 shot S10 48” AP4 gun. It’s like Cruddace just chucked a bunch of guns and wounds and armor on a monstrous chassis and charged points to match. Inability to voluntarily select many of the crap it has renders it untenably expensive just to have 2 BS3 anti-tank shots, basically. Everything else in the army is better at killing infantry for the points, and all of its OTHER guns are only effective vs. infantry.
> 
> Biovores – 35 points each for a S4AP4 large blast that can turn into a spore mine. Spore mines also fast attack choices. Independently selected spore mines deep strike after sides selected but prior to deployment, making them useable as infiltration/dawn of war denial units if nothing else. S4AP4 and no other mine options is a big nerf to “expectations” but better than biovores used to be. May only be allowed to take 1 biovore squad, but can have 3 in it and they operate as a battery. Problematic in that the entire army is anti-infantry by default, and in such a way that it is all moving and operating together. A unit that sits at the back of the board not supporting the main thrust and chucking large blasts that later in the game threaten your own units … is still just as bad as it ever was. No anti-tank capability makes it just throwing 135 points into the hopes of bad scatters for the sake of spawning spore mines to piss people off. Spore mines don’t count as kill points but also don’t contest or capture objectives.
> 
> 
> $.02 …
> 5 x Tervigon lists supported by 9 x Hive Guard to pop transports may be viable
> Psychic lists with lots of potent powers may be seen a lot, but will run into trouble against some lists at the tournament level
> Numerous units that without seeing the codex to make final decision are just bad … Tyrannofexes, Biovores, Lictors, Venomthropes, Carnifexes, Swarmlords, Harpies, Gaunts, Rippers, Warriors, Pyrovores, etc. are all crap for their points/effectiveness breakdown.
> 
> 
> There are a lot of things I’m not touching on, and the dex will be fun I’m sure. Need to see more than just rumors, need to see the actual dex, but felt like sharing my $.02 and passing along some of the rumor mill in the process.
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, I don't think Tyranid are going to have any impact on the game at all, other than to encourage baddies who still use footslogging lists and swear they are competitive to mech up along with the rest of the top tier of players. The nids are still utterly lethal to pure footsloggers, but if the rumors pan out as true people are going to take weird nid lists with their elite slots and such dedicated to anti-transport capacity, and ultimately nerf their own ability to deal with infantry to a point, while hoping to be able to pop enough transports to even the odds. Most of the "top tier" armies at present are still going to fare quite well against most nid builds you can put out, so it's going to be up to talented nid players. The "we always have cover everywhere even on a wide open board" Nid Meatball will remain, and the army will slow down even more b/c of a loss of "move through cover" across the board.


Kudos to *MVBrant*


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

If all of that is true I will be very disappointed in the GW design team. They have essentially cut out a bunch of stuff that made the tyranids unique (bioweapons dependent on host, living ammo, cheap monsters, eternal warrior) and replaced it with a bunch of new crappy creatures designed to attract the 10 year olds to play as the monsters. I mean seriously; Tyrannofex? Tervigon? Flying Horror? Swarmlord? Who thinks up this shit. (The Ymgarl Genestealers, however sound very interesting.)


----------



## cafel

I reserve judgment till I get my hands on a codex, but what I've heard has made me queasy. Then again I fear all change. Really I don't think this codex is as bad as some have made out. Certainly not as great as some of the other recent releases (IG, I'm looking at you), but I can see several approaches working out.


----------



## Katie Drake

I don't understand why Tyranid players think that losing Eternal Warrior is so bad. Nid players always wanted their medium-sized creatures (Warriors, Raveners, etc) to be more resilient against small arms fire, so GW increases the number of Wounds that these creatures have. Now Tyranid players are mad that their creatures aren't immune to instant death... can't have it both ways, y'know? :no:

Personally, I'm _glad_ that there'll finally be some worthwhile targets for force weapons again. I'm _glad_ that we'll need heavy weaponry to have a good chance of taking down the medium-sized creatures and I'm very glad that Warriors, Raveners and Lictors will be able to take more of a beating.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Nids sound like killers for me, my local players don't normally run full-mech :grin:


----------



## Winterous

Katie Drake said:


> I don't understand why Tyranid players think that losing Eternal Warrior is so bad. Nid players always wanted their medium-sized creatures (Warriors, Raveners, etc) to be more resilient against small arms fire, so GW increases the number of Wounds that these creatures have. Now Tyranid players are mad that their creatures aren't immune to instant death... can't have it both ways, y'know? :no:
> 
> Personally, I'm _glad_ that there'll finally be some worthwhile targets for force weapons again. I'm _glad_ that we'll need heavy weaponry to have a good chance of taking down the medium-sized creatures and I'm very glad that Warriors, Raveners and Lictors will be able to take more of a beating.


I'm a Nid player, and I fully agree.
Nids have half the commonly taken multi-wound models in the GAME, and they're ALL immune to Instant Death, it's bullshit!


----------



## MaidenManiac

Katie Drake said:


> I don't understand why Tyranid players think that losing Eternal Warrior is so bad. Nid players always wanted their medium-sized creatures (Warriors, Raveners, etc) to be more resilient against small arms fire, so GW increases the number of Wounds that these creatures have. Now Tyranid players are mad that their creatures aren't immune to instant death... can't have it both ways, y'know? :no:
> 
> Personally, I'm _glad_ that there'll finally be some worthwhile targets for force weapons again. I'm _glad_ that we'll need heavy weaponry to have a good chance of taking down the medium-sized creatures and I'm very glad that Warriors, Raveners and Lictors will be able to take more of a beating.





Winterous said:


> I'm a Nid player, and I fully agree.
> Nids have half the commonly taken multi-wound models in the GAME, and they're ALL immune to Instant Death, it's bullshit!


Loosing any boon is always bad 
I do however agree with both of you. Instant death has, up till this, more or less been very rare. It will probably be good for the game to see that change 

There is naturally a fair amount of whining in the stuff I saxed, this is the internet after all, but some of the conclusions might hold true. Time will tell...

The days where the Tyranid store ex shows up should dawn any day now. Its less then 4 weeks to release date, so I really think that the answers are knocking on the door any day now:wink:


----------



## tu_shan82

*Trygon and Ravener sprue pics.*



Bigred @ Bell of Lost Souls said:


> Hi everybody! We have a set of nice front and back sprue pics for the Trygon and Ravener, as well as a bonus walkaround video of the Trygon frames.


TRYGON SPRUES






































RAVENER SPRUE


----------



## Rayza

my first though when first seing the trygon

THE BIGGER THEY ARE ....................FASTER YOU RUN AWAY !!!


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord

I went into my local store today to have a look at some of the new stuff. There were 3 undercoated raveners and a undercoated trygon. The ravener miniatures look less ugly in person, and the one bursting out of the hole could even look cool with a proper pose and a little converting. Not a fan of the trygon model. Although large models are cool in theory, the large amounts of flat surfaces make it seem devoid of detail. If I buy one It'll need some serious green stuff work.


----------



## Doombreed

Those new models look amazing. I could have sworn that they where going to go back to the old school way to play Nids (horde mode), but it looks like they're heading toward a more diverse way to play a monster list (Nidzzila).


----------



## spudboy

Doombreed said:


> Those new models look amazing. I could have sworn that they where going to go back to the old school way to play Nids (horde mode), but it looks like they're heading toward a more diverse way to play a monster list (Nidzzila).


Or move away from Nidzilla, period. Points costs are being readjusted and new units being brought in to encourage larger hordes, it seems


----------



## darklove

Although a 9 Fex list is now possible from just Heavy Support... Seems pretty Zillatastic!


----------



## spudboy

From the looks of things those cost about 200 a pop, meaning at least 1800 points just on HS for 9. Not a cheap buy, by any means. Plus, no troops. Of course, such a thing would be a dream for a Planetstrike defense list.


----------



## oblivion8

rumours look ok, wish venomthropes were turning out to play better (rumor wise) I wanted to get a squad for my list, but the pyrovores are looking a little better. I wonder how many broodlords will be able to be taken, or if it will be a changling kinda upgrade.
I just hope pure genestealers still is a viable well working troop choice, I dont want to buy any guants, however at 14 points each, they (in theory) would be a fine choice, throw in a unit of ymgarl and 2 trygons and sounds like an alright army start =D


----------



## oblivion8

btw is it just me or does it look like you can make 4 raveners out of those sprues?
looked like 4 torso's but i dunno....


----------



## spudboy

oblivion8 said:


> btw is it just me or does it look like you can make 4 raveners out of those sprues?
> looked like 4 torso's but i dunno....


Maaaaybe. Probably like the 3 Dire Avengers I have around here without legs. Parts variants that needed a part or two more to turn them into complete models.

Just have to wait for the bits to start flowing.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

They will be a pack of 3 models, much like the Warriors they are extremely similar to.


----------



## MaidenManiac

spudboy said:


> Maaaaybe. Probably like the 3 Dire Avengers I have around here without legs. Parts variants that needed a part or two more to turn them into complete models.
> 
> Just have to wait for the bits to start flowing.


Legs are always the "limiting factor". Thats the part you never get even 1 pair extra on any sprue, quite a cleaver move from GW tbh


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

MaidenManiac said:


> Legs are always the "limiting factor". Thats the part you never get even 1 pair extra on any sprue, quite a cleaver move from GW tbh


Quite a dickhead move if you ask me. But I suppose it had to be something. Oh and for Tau it's not the legs the are the limiting factor its the torsos (quite a silly move as torsos are easy to convert).


----------



## oblivion8

strange, acually when looking at the pics more in depth....
4 tails
6 Torsos? 
3 pairs of big scything talons, 6 pairs of small
3 heads
3 pairs of rending claws
3 spines
3 carapaces
1 ripper (wtf?)

all I can say is.... wtf were they thinking? 
truly shows how cheap gw is, if they through in 1 head, spine and carapace (which they could easily fit in that sprue, you would get 4 ravs, which would justify 50$...
u might in fact save money if you bought 3 boxes of raveners and a box of warriors (only like 10$ or so but still...)


----------



## tu_shan82

Looking at the sprues, I don't think that there are six torsos,but rather six torso halves making that a total of three torsos. Could be wrong however,and I guess we will find out when someone actually buys the kit.


----------



## Winterous

oblivion8 said:


> 4 tails
> 12 torso fronts
> 3 torso backs
> 3 pairs of big scything talons, 6 pairs of small
> 3 heads
> 3 pairs of rending claws
> 3 spines
> 1 ripper


I amended the torso bits, there are 12 torso fronts, of 4 different varieties.
This is undoubtedly so you can make your Raveners look the way you want them to, which is a good thing.
There are only 3 torso backs though, so you can only make 3 actual torsos, and the rest of the fronts could be used for scenery or conversions.

And what's wrong with there being a Ripper in there?
It's similar to one of the ones you get in the Gaunt pack (the smooth one), but has a different tongue, spikes on its back, and an interesting crescent tail spike.


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

The 4 torso varieties represent the 3 different torso mounted bioweapons they can have(there's 3 different 'flamer' weapons they can have, an one torso is if you don't want bioweapons).


----------



## MaidenManiac

Found this on BOLS:


> Merry Christmas everyone - a German copy of the codex has been leaked onto the internet. I've only seen a few pages translated, so I'll give details on those for now.
> 
> The other Instinctive Behavior besides Lurk (possibly called Devour?) grants Rage to the unit and specifies that they cannot shoot, but may run so long as the model moves in the manner specified by Rage (ie towards the closest enemy unit in sight). We already knew about the Rage part but the no shooting/rage run info I hadn't heard before so I figured I'd mention it.
> 
> Devourers (normal AND monstrous creature versions) apparently force a morale test if a unit is
> wounded by one, and it must be taken at -1. This is going off my own intuition as to what the german means, this isn't an actual translation, so I don't know details.
> 
> Warriors - 3-9 per brood, 30 points, WS5 BS3, S and T the same as before, W3 I4 A3 Ld10 Sv4+. They come with scything talons and devourer standard, as well as Shadow in the Warp. They can replace their devourer for a pair of spinefists, another pair or scything talons, or rending claws for free, or a deathspitter (now 18" s5 ap5 assault 3) for 5 points. They can exchange their existing scything talons (not a pair that they've recieved for replacing their devourer) for rending claws (5 pts), a pair of boneswords (10 pts), or a bonesword and a lash whip (15 pts). 1 Warrior per brood can take a Venom Cannon or Strangler(?) for 15 and 10 points respectively (remember that these are the 'light' variants with reduced strength and range). Adrenal Glands and Toxin sacs cost 5 points each, I assume this is per model and I doubt you can mix it up. My personal thoughts here is that while t4 30 point models with a 4+ save is still a risky investment, the relative cheapness of some of these upgrades (with the exception of the special weapons, which I find to be over-costed) makes up for it somewhat. Flying Warriors confirmed, they have a 5+ save and presumably no way to improve this. 35 points a pop and are in fast attack.
> 
> Alpha Warrior - WS6, BS4 S5 T5 W3 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv3+, 80 points. Same standard loadout as a regular warrior, except there's something under special rules (leitbestie) that went untranslated, though this might be the rule that buffs a Tyranid Warrior unit he joins that was rumored. It also has the Independent Character rule, so you don't have to purchase a Warrior brood along with him. Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands are 10 points each instead, and it can take Regeneration for 10 points as well. His weapon choices and costs are otherwise identical to a normal Warrior.
> 
> Genestealers - Same statline as we're used to, 5+ save with no upgrade available, 14 pts. They can be accompanied by a Broodlord for 46 points, who enjoys WS7 S5 T5 W3 I7 A3 Sv4+. He seems to have lost his Inhuman Strength and is stuck with just Rending Claws at first. All of them come with Fleet, Infiltrate, and Move Through Cover. The Broodlord can take Scything Talons for 2 points, an Injector (instant death on a wound roll of 6) for 10, and Acid Blood for 15 (automatic wound against whichever unit is attacking the Broodlord for each unsaved wound inflicted, no saves). Genestealers can take Scything Talons for 2 points, Adrenaline Glands for 3 points (I really like this, furious charge on genestealers is a horrifying concept), and Toxin sacs for 3 points (also awesome, rerolling wounds on anything with s5 or less means more chances for rending). No translation on his psychic powers but existing rumors are likely accurate.
> 
> Pyrovore - Very strange. Existing statline rumors pretty much hold true - including the I1 A1 part, and is 45 points. However his weapon, which is simply a heavy flamer with no extra range like a hellhound, behaves oddly. Everytime he is wounded, he automatically fires it and 'explodes' like a vehicle, (s3 ap- within d6"). He has the Devour instinctive behavior but has a special exception allowing him to still fire his flamer. The best I can make sense of this guy is that you're supposed to charge him in and force the opponent to deal with him until he finally explodes a final time and dies.
> 
> Hive Tyrant - WS8 BS3 S6 T6 W4 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv3+, 170 points. Comes with Bonesword and Lashwhip, as well as a pair of Scything Talons. Has Shadow in the Warp standard as well as two out of four Psychic Powers (dominate, life drain, psychic scream, warp scream). Bonesword/Whip can be swapped out for another pair of scythes for free, scything talons can be swapped for either a twin-linked deathspitter or twin-linked devourers with 'monstrous creature ammo' (18" s6 ap - assault 6). Both options are 15 points. Important to note is that in this case it is perfectly legal to swap ANY pair of scything talons, including the ones that replaced the bonesword/whip, so Dakkarants are still legal, albeit much more expensive. The next part specifies that only ONE scything talon pair can be replaced by a heavy strangler or venom cannon for 20/25 points respectively. He can take 3 special non-psychic powers that are each 25 points (these are the rumored abilities like granting outflank, +1 to reserves, and so on). Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Acid Blood, Injector, Toxic Miasma, Regeneration - 10, 10, 15, 15, 15, 20 points respectively. It can take 1 of the following torso options - thorax swarm (flamer template rumored to be available to Raveners), extended carapace (2+ save presumably), wings, for 25, 40, and 60 points respectively.
> 
> Carnifex - rumored statline is true. 160 points, Broods of 1-3. Has +2 I charge, Fearless, 2 sets of scythes standard. Can replace one pair with crushing claws for 25 points, adds d3 attacks each round but overrides the built-in charge bonus. Can replace both pairs of scything talons with the twin-linked monster devourers for the same cost as a Tyrant (15 points), Heavy strangler/VC costs are also the same but limited to 1 each. Spore cysts - 5 points, count as frag grenades, adrenal glands and toxin sacs are 10 points each, bioplasma (12" plasma cannon) is 10 points, regeneration is 25 points. If the brood numbers 1 carnifex, it can take a mycotic spore. Head options (excluding regenerate) and tail weapons are gone.
> 
> Tervigon - WS3 BS3 S5 T6 W6 I1 A3 Ld10 Sv3+, 160 points. Has "thornvolley" weapon standard, 18" s5 ap4 assault 4. Has synapse, shadow in the warp, dominate. Can take scything talons for 5 points, crushing claws for 25. Adrenal glands and toxin sacs are 10 points, acid blood, injector, toxic miasma 15 points, regeneration 30 points. "Thorn Volley" can be replaced with "Thorn Blast" for free, same range and strength, no AP and is large blast. Can take catalyst or the force psychic powers for 15 points each. "Brood Father" special rule grants his leadership to all gaunts within 6" as well as the bonuses from toxin sacs and adrenal glands equipped on the tervigon, as well as counter-attack. However if the tervigon dies, all gaunt units within 6" suffer 3d6 s3 ap- hits. Spawning gaunts works as rumored, they must be placed within 6" of the Tervigon. If terrain/models prevent placement the model is lost. Gaunts spawned are the default profile in the codex.
> 
> Trygon/Trygon Alpha - everything rumored is pretty much true. Has Deep Strike, Fearless, Fleet, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed (Trygon only), Synapse Creature (Trygon Prime only), Shadow in the Warp (Trygon Prime only). The following wording is translated as close to what will likely be in the english codex as possible. Subterranean Attack: If a Trygon (or Trygon Prime) following the rules for Deep Strike will be placed in impassable terrain or on another model (friend or foe), reduce the deviation distance to the minimum that is necessary to not touch the obstacle. After the Trygon (or Trygon Prime) has emerged, mark the position of the creature's base with an appropriate marker. Any Tyranid infantry units (no creatures with wings) arriving in the following turns from reserve may use the network of tunnels created by the Trygon (or Trygon Prime) and come out of the tunnel exit, rather than entering the battlefield normally. If a unit is deployed this way, the entire unit is placed so that all models are in legal formation within 6 inches of the marker. If models cannot be placed because of impassable terrain or enemy models within 1 inch, these models are destroyed. The unit may not move in the turn in which they appear, and may not assault, but can shoot or run as normal. Only one unit may enter the battlefield via each tunnel exit.
> 
> That's all I've seen so far. Source is anonymous, but all thanks and credit go to his translation.
> 
> *Edit: Included cost for Pyrovore and details on Trygon special rules. Also added details on Devourers and confirmation of Flying Warriors.


Cred to *Madjob*


----------



## oblivion8

no assaulting out of the hole 
makes sense, but is kind of dissapointing, those raveners and stealers are going to become easy fodder if they get to close (5+ save =O), however if the raveners can take the flamer and have 3 wounds each it may be worth it to do it with them...


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

Awesome deathspitters are still good. No need to cut up my warriors.


----------



## Winterous

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Awesome deathspitters are still good. No need to cut up my warriors.


Not as good as they were though 
More power against single targets, but shorter range and not so good against horde.
On a positive note though, Venom Cannon are now good against infantry as well


----------



## subtlejoe

does anyone know what sything talons will do, i know it means you will be able to re-roll 1's to hit, but does that replace the +1 attack, which would make it pointless having screamer killers!!!!


----------



## wombat_tree

I am not sure if anyone has already said this but I noticed that on pg 57 of the January White Dwarf it says the points cost for the models in the particular army that will be playing the game using the rules from the new codex. So I can give you the following points costs:

Trygon - 200pts
Mawloc - 170pts
Gargoyles - 6pts
Hormagaunts - ? (there is listed 15 hormagaunts for 80 points which means they are 5.33 points each? :scare: Note: they are not listed with any biomorphs)
Deathleaper (lictor variant thingy) - 140pts
Hive guard - 50pts
Venomthropes - 55pts
Carnifex 'Straglethorn cannon' upgrade - assuming that the Carnifex is in fact 160 pts then the upgrade costs 20pts
Hive Tyrant with Heavy Venom Cannon, Old Adversary, Paroxysm and Leech Essence - 220pts
Tyrant Guard - 60pts

It was also mentioned on pg 26 that warp blast is now S10 AP1 Lance


----------



## MaidenManiac

wombat_tree said:


> I am not sure if anyone has already said this but I noticed that on pg 57 of the January White Dwarf it says the points cost for the models in the particular army that will be playing the game using the rules from the new codex...


I found a link for that which could be found a page back, but for those that missed it the link is *here*


----------



## Katie Drake

:shok: Death Leaper better be fucking awesome for that many points...


----------



## wombat_tree

Katie Drake said:


> :shok: Death Leaper better be fucking awesome for that many points...


Well in the WD battle it appeared (I think it was outside of area terrain) ate a dreadnaught and then survived a turn of shooting from a land raider crusader.


----------



## MaidenManiac

Stuff has finally started to roll in, BOLS gives the following details:


> Lots of reports coming in from overseas of 1st hand views of the codex at long last:
> Here are some confirmed morsels to keep you on the edge of your seat:
> 
> Carnifex: WS:3 BS:3 S:9 T:6 W:4 I:1 A:4 Ld:7 Sv:3
> Scary options such as the return of old-school bio-plasma which is now a 12" Plasma Cannon
> Groups of 1-3 confirmed, +2 I when charging. Costed as Leman Russ Eradicator
> 
> Trygon: WS:5 BS:3 S:6 T:6 W:6 I:4 A:6 Ld:8 Sv:3
> Its bioelectric field is a 12" S:5 AP:5 Assault 6 weapon.
> It indeed deepstrikes and leave a marker behind that other tyranids can reserve through.
> Costed as Baharroth.
> 
> Zoanthropes: WS:3 BS:4 S:4 T:4 W:2 I:3 A:1 Ld:10 Sv:5
> Dual modes of fire are 24" S:5 AP:3 Assault 1 Blast, OR the 18" S:10 AP:1 Assault 1 Lance (move over Tau)
> Unit sizes are 1-3 and they are Elites. Costed as a SM Predator.
> 
> Tyranid Warriors: WS:5 BS:3 S:4 T:4 W:3 I:4 A:3 Ld:10 Sv:4
> Can be put in a landingspore, unitsize 3-9, costed as a CSM Termy.
> 
> SwarmLord: WS:9 BS:3 S:6 T:6 W:5 I:6 A:4 Ld:10 Sv:3
> Causes Instant Death, Armed with quad boneswords, 4+ Invulnerable, Gives +1 to reserves.
> Costed as a pair of Colossus.


Cred to BigRed @ BOLS !

I still hope, though more and more in vain it seems, that the Zoanthrope Railgun on 'roids is some kind of a bit worse then it looks....


----------



## Underground Heretic

I'll admit I'm worried about the new tyrannids, but It seems Cruddance knows his stuff. The Trygon hole looks like a constricted version of deep strike, especially with the restriction of _no assaulting the turn reserves arrive_. The drop podding zoanthropes and carnifexes are what I think most armies will be worried about, but unless they have some AP 4 ignores cover weapons at range, I think my Tau can still out maneuver the Nids and escape.

It will be a bit of a slap in the face to be knocked off the top of the BFG totem pole, but it isn't the end of the world. Still am grumbling about the Zoanthropes being a terminator and one half in points. Most armies should have a way to cancel this, as it's a psychic power. Some of the older codices should be in the best shape, baring Space Wolves. The Inquisitorial model psychic hood (DH, WH, DA, ¿BA?) C:SM psychic hood, Runes of Warding, the Crucible of Malediction, and even Weaken Resolve should go a long way to stopping the psychic tank busters. I'll just trust in markerlights and rapid fire.

On a different note, I want to thank and congratulate all of my fellow Heretics for holding yourselves (for the most part) to a much higher level and not degenerating into the whining fest that BoLS comment threads tend toward.


----------



## oblivion8

hmmm well the rumours have changed once again....
2 wounded zoanthropes? with no eternal warrior that looks a bit grim... 
perhaps synapse does something else as well to make up?
And im sure they will keep some of the psychic good stuff that was in the last codex, no psychic test=no denial or something like that. I am disapointed that the rmours of burrowing tunnels cant assault after cdeepstriking (they are snakes oming out under you wanting to eat you after all).
But considering the rumours are just that, rumours, i wont hold my breath.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Mate, this close to release date, these 'rumours' have probably been confirmed by someone who's seen the codex. They will be true, barring a few minor errors, which will be minor.

EDIT: I've put together a Rumour Roundup for the new Tyranids, just to make it easier to look at all the infomation


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

One of our members, Dies Irae, came to me with this intresting infomation about the Zoanthrope upgrade, the Doom of Malanthai, which he confirms to be in the codex:



Dies Irae said:


> when the "Doom of Malanthai" fires his psychic power, he loses 1D3 Wounds...which makes him far less interesting!


Thanks for the heads up mate, rep for you!


----------



## Warlock in Training

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> One of our members, Dies Irae, came to me with this intresting infomation about the Zoanthrope upgrade, the Doom of Malanthai, which he confirms to be in the codex:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up mate, rep for you!



Oh Thank God :so_happy:. I was worried about that one. 

Sorry but for whatever reason I find Nid Players challenging as it is and some of these Rumores sounded over the top. But after seeing all the little leaked info I think they will be formible as ever, but beatable. I think the Broods of Fexes will cool to see. 6 Fexes and a couple of Zoanthropes makes for a Bad Day for all those 5th Edition Mech Armies I would Think.


----------



## Talos

I am very tempted to make a army based around the Tervigon. If you can make them troops with guants then I will have to make a horde army. I just love the idea of making more guants each moving phase.

If psyhic defense works against nid I will have a reason to take a psyhic hood.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Goatboy's HQ reveiw from BOLS:



> Hi Goatboy here again and today I want to start off the jump into the sticky and gooey center of the new Tyranid codex. Preview codices are out in some locations and I am going to go into reviewing the units available to all the Hive Minded people out there. This review is not the be-all-end-all as this is based on my own opinion and how I feel they will play versus myself and the armies I like to throw down. We all know each area is different and sometimes what works in your local game does not always work versus other types of armies. So enough of this lets get onto the review.
> 
> HQ - I TELL YOU BUGS WHEN TO SIT AND WHEN TO STAND!!!
> 
> Real quick - some interesting info on the rules that all of these guys have. First of all, the loss of Synapse combined with Eternal Warrior is huge for the Nids. In fact I feel that a lot of the smaller guys really suffer for losing this and lose some of their overall benefit. But we'll see if the lovely ability of the army to get fully screened will help that out. The Shadow in the Warp is kinda meh when compared to what the Space Wolves got. But I feel the range is just too small to really make it "useful" as if you are within range you most likely don't care about their powers and just want to throw lots of wounds onto them with your grubby claws.With nids having so many psychic powers now, I understand why Games Workshop would put something in that just says 4+ counter in the Wolves codex.
> 
> 
> Hive Tyrant
> Welcome to the return of the close combat badass. I am not sure this is a good thing, as the only way to get him moving quickly is to give him wings, thus losing the chance of having 6 wounds of bodyguards to take a hit for the team. I don't really feel he is worth the trouble as he is expensive and somewhat situational to get working. If you are playing versus a heavy assault army, then he will be golden as he will keep anything away from the meat of your army and let you counter assault to your heart's content. I think a better build will be as a reserve-helper to let your army create a beneficial 2nd turn in your face assault/charge/etc. The two builds I like are as the big gun battery or maybe as a flying death beast. I don't think it is the best HQ option they have as some of the others will help your army more. I do wish they could take 2 Heavy Venom cannons.
> 
> The psychic powers are interesting and could prove beneficial later on. I think this is the final kick on - if you don't have a way to stop mind bullets then you might be a bit boned. They are all interesting and I like Life Drain as a way to make sure your combat monster gets into someone and eats up some guys. Now if he could only use it to give wounds back to his bodyguards, that would be cool.
> 
> 6/10 - Expensive and will not give you the most benefit like some of the other choices will.
> 
> Swarm Lord
> Here is an interesting choice. He is a super assault monster and gives your guys some neat abilities as they march into contact with the enemy. I really like the idea and the overall thought on his look, I just feel he is a bit too expensive. Still he is a beast in combat and with his 3 escorts walking by his side, he has a real good chance of getting somewhere. Screen him with warriors and have the warriors screened with guants and you got a really annoying death block that can move up and do some damage.
> 
> 6/10 - Just too expensive to be viable for the army. There are better synapse choices that will save you points and let you get more punch for your army
> 
> Tyrant Guard
> If you are running a walking Tyrant then you will be running 3 of these guys. Boneswords might be a good option as it will let you crush just about anything you hit. With the Swarm Lord look for these units to eat any of these "deathstar" units you see running around 40k. I know my Thunder Wolves will run away from this fat unit and hope to hurt something else.
> 
> 8/10 - They have options that make them interesting. Wish the Tyrant were better to let this unit work better.
> 
> Tervigon
> Now here we have something very interesting. This is definitely one of the better choices in the game, making your Termaguants scary, thus letting your other units do much more as the guants need to be dealt with before it becomes too late. Catalyst is great and something I would buy on this guy. You also want to add in regenerate too. The interesting thing of course is that if you take a Termaguant squad (Please buy lots and lots -GW) you can get one of these guys as a troops choice. This lets you take some other kind of HQ choice instead of filling up the 2 with these guys. This is pretty dang sweet and I give a big high five to Games Workshop for this. Also whatever the Tervigon has (Adrenal Glads, Toxin Sacs) the Termaguants get too. Plus you mix in the ability to "create" more Termagaunts to score with and you got a no brainer unit. I would probably also put Regenerate on this guy as well as look at him as the big brother to watch out for the poor Termaguants that are getting beat up upon.
> 
> This guy also has some of the best psychic powers. Catalyst will be your friend for sure. Use it and use it often. Frenzy is ok, but not something I would waste the points on. Dominate is alright and I am glad it is for free. So again, use Catalyst...often.
> 
> 10/10 - These guys are the new "it" of the Nid codex.
> 
> Alpha Warrior
> Now here is another really interesting choice. With the way to get the Tervigon pretty easily in an army, I think the Alpha Warrior might be the left fist for the one two HQ punch on the Nid Codex. I think a few of these guys might be a great choice to help your Warrior squad, as well as give you some extra hit you could need for the middle layer of Warriors you should be expecting in the upcoming months. I think making him a Sarge with a Lash Whip and Bonesword might be the way to go. Will see as the months lead on and we really start to play with the army and see how the gibbering horde really works.
> 
> They also are able to give their WS and BS to the warrior squad they join. This is pretty interesting as it lets you have a nice midrange move and assault force that is the back up for your first horde.
> 
> 7/10 - Might go up as we start to test them more.
> 
> The Parasite of Mortrex
> Very characterful choice here, and something I am not entirely sure about. You will most likely want him to be attached to some Gargoyles as it will allow it to use its movement fully. I have to wait and see if this monster ends up being useful. It is pretty expensive and I don't have much faith in ripper swarms so most likely he won't be used. But we will see. The biggest thing is, since he is a flying unit he can get close and use Shadow in the Warp to create some shenanigans for the Eldar and other psyker heavy armies.
> 
> 5/10 - Not enough information to really figure out if this is going to be "good".
> 
> So there is the HQ slots for the Tyranid codex. I really think the Tervigons are where it is at and being able to take more then 2 really lets you do some dirty things in this codex. Of course the old standbys are just not where it is at as new figures generate new sales . I personally will probably take one Hive Tyrant with 3 Guard, some Tervigons, and a mixture of MC's. The fluffy center will be Termaguants with some lovely Genestealer friends to come in from the side and ruin whatever party is going on. I hear they love spoiling your army's picnics and get all over your food and drinks...
> 
> 
> 
> Look for the next installment in a few days. I plan on going into the big pool of Elites we now have with this codex. They really seem to want to cram in as much "neat" stuff in the elites section, thus leaving you with some difficult choices on how to build your own world eating army.


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## oblivion8

just out of curiosity, how are you supposed to take boneswords on warriors, tyrants, and guard when only one bonesword comes in a hive tyrant pack? Other than buying bitz online, or spending a gazzillion dollars on 8+ hivetyrants, i cant imagine this is very feasible.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

I would just scratch-build one from a sycthing talon and a rending claw. Use the Talon as the blade, part of the talon arm as a hilt and the rending claw as the holding hand. A bit of Green stuff and it shoudn't look to bad.


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## your master

converting boneswords is quite easy ive converted my hive tyrant to have 2. check out this thread on the moddeling link
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=541402#post541402


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## Farseer Darvaleth

dude these have been out for AGES check the white dwarf thers loads about it this aint news lol wtf


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

What are you on about?


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## bobss

xD...

As for Hive Tyrants, I cannot stress how awesome Toxic Misasma and Lash whips will be. The biomorph Toxic Miasma, to the last of my knowledge, although tis the fickle ways of rumours that it may of changed, that your opponent must to a Ld Test or suffer 1 wound, with no armour-saves (perhaps no Inv either...) and Lash whip takes your opponents Ld down to 1, so.... your automatically going to fail. Dont quote me on this, again, I havent checked the rumours for nigh on a week or two.

Theres actually very little, if not no beneficial info about the Horror of Wtf in the WD, its mostly asking Robin Cruddace about the Fluff (Which I for one cannot FUCKING wait for!) and how the changes in the models reflect the changes in the Nids etc etc etc..... actually it graces the rules very little....


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

bobss said:


> xD...
> 
> As for Hive Tyrants, I cannot stress how awesome Toxic Misasma and Lash whips will be. The biomorph Toxic Miasma, to the last of my knowledge, although tis the fickle ways of rumours that it may of changed, that your opponent must to a Ld Test or suffer 1 wound, with no armour-saves (perhaps no Inv either...) and Lash whip takes your opponents Ld down to 1, so.... your automatically going to fail. Dont quote me on this, again, I havent checked the rumours for nigh on a week or two.


Umm, Toxic Miamsa is a T test and Lashwhips reduce I


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## Winterous

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Umm, Toxic Miamsa is a T test and Lashwhips reduce I


Smoooooth XD


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## bobss

Yes, you are infact right, but hell, I did put my trademark '' Dont quote me on this '' xD


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord

Acid blood requires an I test if you cause wound on the creature equipped with it. If the test is failed the model that caused the wound suffers an instant no AS wound. Lashwhips reduce all models in base to base, to I1. I could see these being take together to help monstrous creatures against squad leaders with PFs. 

All models in base to base with a creature equipped with Toxin Miasma must take a T test or suffer an instant no AS wound. This ability is gonna cause more combat deaths than the creatures themselves.


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## MaidenManiac

The Toxic Miasma allows armoursaves too, so its not _that_ horrible:wink: "Savingthrows are made as normal."

I personally think that keeping the cost down on TMCs will be the way. A Hive Tyrant with a Venom Cannon and 2+ save costs 235 pts for example. He will easily jump towards the 300s with miasmas, adrenaline glands, reg and other upgrades. Schyting Talons seems like a juicier weapon to keep on him in my eyes too. Reroll 1s to hit (50% of your missed attacks) is awesome, well better then making TH+SS termies fight at I1 again...


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## Winterous

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Acid blood requires an I test if you cause wound on the creature equipped with it. If the test is failed the model that caused the wound suffers an instant no AS wound. Lashwhips reduce all models in base to base, to I1. I could see these being take together to help monstrous creatures against squad leaders with PFs.


O_O
That on a Tyrant with LIFELEECH!
That would be very fun, _very_ fun indeed!


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord

MaidenManiac said:


> The Toxic Miasma allows armoursaves too, so its not _that_ horrible:wink: "Savingthrows are made as normal."


Oh, I wasn't aware they got an AS. It doesn't seem OP now (still could be useful). Thanks for the correction.



MaidenManiac said:


> I personally think that keeping the cost down on TMCs will be the way. A Hive Tyrant with a Venom Cannon and 2+ save costs 235 pts for example. He will easily jump towards the 300s with miasmas, adrenaline glands, reg and other upgrades. Schyting Talons seems like a juicier weapon to keep on him in my eyes too. Reroll 1s to hit (50% of your missed attacks) is awesome, well better then making TH+SS termies fight at I1 again...


Agreed. Add in the fact that tyrants and alpha warriors can already have an adrenal gland that pushed their Initiative up to 6 on the charge, and the talons are the obvious choice (assuming they have I5 base like most other HQs).

MaidenManiac have you by any chance seen the codex?


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## Underground Heretic

I've seen a summary of all the rumors and it seem pretty complete. Like I said I'm most worried about being cornered and surrounded by a mass drop strike. The army that I think will get some real playtime is the below. It should come to around 2000 points. Long range anti-tank isn't in there, but then this army will be up close and personal really quickly. I don't see why most TMCs should be upgraded, the tyrant comes with Bonesword, lash whip and talons, from what I've heard and trygons come with twin talons, giving them preferred enemy.

Two Hive Tyrants w/ _Leach life_, _Nerve shock_ (one unit within 12" WS and BS 1 for one round), _Tactical Insight_ (+1 to reserves) and wings
Two pairs of Zoanthropes in landing spore
Three broods of twenty hormagaunts w/ adrenal glands (Furious Charge) in landing spore
Mawlock 
Two Trygons


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## Critta

Warlock in Training said:


> Horror of Malanai (Elite):
> - has stat line pretty similar to an alpha warrior with T 4
> Is it me or does this thing sound like a LOAD of BS? Whenever he causes wounds he gains a wound to max of 10, and sonic scream causes LD check with 3D^ and a wound for each point failed by. WTF, I call BS. That is the most balance breaking unit I ever heard of. Why not give the Nids a Bio Titan to use in standard games as well.:suicide:


The only thing I can see with this is that it's T4 without eternal warrior, point a S8 weapon at him and poof, he disappears to instant death...

Seems to me that the nids have lost a lot with the lack of eternal warrior with synapse.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Underground Heretic said:


> Two Hive Tyrants w/ _Leach life_, _Nerve shock_ (one unit within 12" WS and BS 1 for one round), _Tactical Insight_ (+1 to reserves) and wings
> Two pairs of Zoanthropes in landing spore
> Three broods of twenty hormagaunts w/ adrenal glands (Furious Charge) in landing spore
> Mawlock
> Two Trygons


Hormagaunts in landing Spores? That won't work, they can't charge after deepstrike. 

Hive Tyrants are also fairly expensive for what they do, I think the Tervigon is an overall better choice, but one that won't work too well when spammed for heaps of Gaunts.


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## Winterous

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Hormagaunts in landing Spores? That won't work, they can't charge after deepstrike.
> 
> Hive Tyrants are also fairly expensive for what they do, I think the Tervigon is an overall better choice, but one that won't work too well when spammed for heaps of Gaunts.


It will if you have a Trygon in front of them, blocking the shots.


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## Underground Heretic

I have no doubts that the tervigon would be a better choice but if it's walking all the way across the board it gives me a few turns to shoot at it. Being a Tau player, anything that gives me two to three turns to lay into them with railguns and mass S 5 shots doesn't really worry as much, it's the armies that are in my face quickly that worry me.

Any army that can field lots of S8 or better weapons should, especially if they are mid to long range. From the summary, could be wrong, bu there seems to be a lot of T 4 some T 5 and most monstrous creatures are T 6. S 8 weapons should be able deal with most MCs on a 2+, maybe even instant kill most of the midrange bugs.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Winterous said:


> It will if you have a Trygon in front of them, blocking the shots.


What if your Spores land before your Trygons? Your better off running through the tunnels if you want the Tyrgon for cover, which is less flexible. Also, a Tyrgon is going to have a very hard time covering half the brood in the middle of the enemy army, especially when things like vehicles can move round to get side shots, or hit you with barrage weapons.


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## oblivion8

I think that turn 1 assaults with genestealers will be fun.
Infiltrate 12" away (if possible of course) then move, fleet, assault.
against tau, this will work especially well against battle suits and things not in vehicles (obviously) or eldar holding objectives ect... would work wonders against large guard platoons.
As for the tyrant and hormies, its kinda catch 22 in some instances, they shoot the tyrant unit wound sponge=the hormies get closer, they shoot the horde of hormies=the tyrant gets closer. I suppose they could take one out after another, but you'd need a lot of firepower IMO. And this is not to mention all the other shit they have to deal with.


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## Llamafish

*Possiable Summary?*

i got a pdf of a possiable Nid summary , which i tried to uploaded, but not working?


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord

Do you mean this downloadable one?:
At this link i was stupid enough to illegally provide?


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## Underground Heretic

You're probably right cafel. I just stumbled on the material I provided, but being as it was anon, I'm not sure quite what I was thinking. I am curious as to how close it is to the actual codex, though.


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## cafel

I'd take that shit down. I don't think GW would look kindly on posting that kind of stuff. We know they're itching to shut down sites that breach their copyright.


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## torealis

Llamafish said:


> i got a pdf of a possiable Nid summary , which i tried to uploaded, but not working?


Good. Don't. 

A note to everyone: This is a stupid idea that WILL provoke the wrath of GW's legal department and get us into trouble. The slightest break of this rule will result in punitive action from mods.


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## markjelly

I want a pyrovore, there well cool:grin:


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## Katie Drake

markjelly said:


> I want a pyrovore, there well cool:grin:


They're so bad... it tries to being a firing platform, but isn't particularly helpful because its range is terrible. It tries to be good at close combat with poisoned attacks and acid blood, but it only has one Attack... :laugh:


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## Winterous

Katie Drake said:


> They're so bad... it tries to being a firing platform, but isn't particularly helpful because its range is terrible. It tries to be good at close combat with poisoned attacks and acid blood, but it only has one Attack... :laugh:


Stop shooting his dreams down Katie, you're sitting on an asteroid!


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## oblivion8

im sure there are ways to field them usefully, everything has a use in certain situations and armies. and for a 40$ model it BETTER have a use or two =P


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Nope, Pyrovores are just one of those units who don't have a very good ruleset.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Nope, Pyrovores are just one of those units who don't have a very good ruleset.


Or model... Or fluff... Actually why are they in the dex at all?


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## oblivion8

lol, im not too sure, all of you have probably seen the dex i can imagine.
I have to wait until they come out to see it  (thats just one of the perks of being in china i suppose XD)


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## Winterous

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Or model... Or fluff... Actually why are they in the dex at all?


I like the model.



oblivion8 said:


> lol, im not too sure, all of you have probably seen the dex i can imagine.
> I have to wait until they come out to see it  (thats just one of the perks of being in china i suppose XD)


I haven't T_T
Are the preview codices cut down, or the full thing?


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## oblivion8

> I like the model.


I second that motion.


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## Winterous

oblivion8 said:


> I second that motion.


All in favour...


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## oblivion8

well for anybody that has seen the dex, is genestealers infiltrate and fleet confirmed?


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Aye, I love the idea behind it as well 

EDIT: Can you have Genestealers any other way


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## oblivion8

i just find it funny, everybody is yelling TERVIGON SWARM LIST!
but their are so many nice things you can do in the new dex, Better then last ed, where it was either (swarm guants) (fex's galore) (genestealer cult) (shooty tyrant list) and you very rarely saw lists that were different.


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## Katie Drake

oblivion8 said:


> well for anybody that has seen the dex, is genestealers infiltrate and fleet confirmed?


Yup, and the Broodlord has Fleet as well, so he won't slow the 'Stealers down like he used to. About the only thing that's gotten worse about him is that he doesn't have Inhuman Strength anymore, but he has access to some very nice psychic powers that more than make up for it.

I forget the name of it, but one of his powers force a model in base contact to roll a D6 and add its Ld, while the Broodlord does the same. If the Broodlord wins, that model can't attack in close combat that turn at all... very nice way to shut down independent characters and upgrade characters.

EDIT: As far as Genestealers go, I've been wondering if it isn't finally worth giving them scything talons. Since there's no way to increase their Attacks characteristic and Feeder Tendrils are no longer present, rerolling 1's To Hit seems pretty good for the points... I mean, a 'Stealer with talons costs what an unupgraded Genestealer did in the old Codex.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Katie Drake said:


> Yup, and the Broodlord has Fleet as well, so he won't slow the 'Stealers down like he used to. About the only thing that's gotten worse about him is that he doesn't have Inhuman Strength anymore, but he has access to some very nice psychic powers that more than make up for it.
> 
> I forget the name of it, but one of his powers force a model in base contact to roll a D6 and add its Ld, while the Broodlord does the same. If the Broodlord wins, that model can't attack in close combat that turn at all... very nice way to shut down independent characters and upgrade characters.
> 
> EDIT: As far as Genestealers go, I've been wondering if it isn't finally worth giving them scything talons. Since there's no way to increase their Attacks characteristic and Feeder Tendrils are no longer present, rerolling 1's To Hit seems pretty good for the points... I mean, a 'Stealer with talons costs what an unupgraded Genestealer did in the old Codex.


Spend the points on Toxin Sacs first. Then Scything Talons if A) you can't put another guy in or B) your already at 10 or so models.

12 Genestealers with Scything Talons and Toxin Sacs is only 228 points O_O

Remeber, with Toxin Sacs and S4, they will be re-rolling wounds against most things. Lots of Rends for everyone! =D


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## Winterous

Katie Drake said:


> EDIT: As far as Genestealers go, I've been wondering if it isn't finally worth giving them scything talons. Since there's no way to increase their Attacks characteristic and Feeder Tendrils are no longer present, rerolling 1's To Hit seems pretty good for the points... I mean, a 'Stealer with talons costs what an unupgraded Genestealer did in the old Codex.


Wait, don't Scything Talons still give you +1 attack?
I thought they were the same, but also added the re-rolling 1s to hit thing.


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## MaidenManiac

Winterous said:


> Wait, don't Scything Talons still give you +1 attack?
> I thought they were the same, but also added the re-rolling 1s to hit thing.


No they do not:no:

At 190 pts for 10 infiltrating fleeters with sick CCstats who reroll 1s in cc with poisoned 4+ rending attacks those bugs seem fierce indeed

Remains to see if those upgrades are worth their points though. More bodies on the field is always a factor to count in. 10 stock Genestealers and 10 stock Termagaunts are the same price (190), and twice as many scooring models:wink:


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## InquisitorTidusSolomon

Winterous said:


> All in favour...


Aye...
(Effing character minimum)

I'm really excited for this dex, but I can't wait to try kitbashing a Tyrannofex and a Swarmlord.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

MaidenManiac said:


> No they do not:no:
> 
> At 190 pts for 10 infiltrating fleeters with sick CCstats who reroll 1s in cc with poisoned 4+ rending attacks those bugs seem fierce indeed
> 
> Remains to see if those upgrades are worth their points though. More bodies on the field is always a factor to count in. 10 stock Genestealers and 10 stock Termagaunts are the same price (190), and twice as many scooring models:wink:


I've done the maths, 8 Stealers with Talons is 1 point cheaper than 9 without and actually have a higher damage output(just barely, mind you). It gets better with Toxin Sacs though :grin:


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## oblivion8

so the only stealers with feeder tendrils are the ymargl?

considering that 10 stealers in the 4th ed codex with scuttlers, scything talons, and toxic sacs came to 270 pts I think genestealers got a lotta love in the new dex, but im still disappointed that you cant take any form of broodlord hq, it makes sense fluff wise and would have been cool =/


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## Winterous

oblivion8 said:


> so the only stealers with feeder tendrils are the ymargl?


If you have Stealers with them on, it doesn't mean you can't use them anymore.
Ymargl aren't the ONLY stealers with Tendrils, they're just the iconic ones.
They've probably just removed Feeder Tendrils as a biomorph, and given them to Lictors exclusively.


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## InquisitorTidusSolomon

Winterous said:


> They've probably just removed Feeder Tendrils as a biomorph, and given them to Lictors exclusively.


Any word on whether Feeders will still give PE to friendlies within range?


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## Concrete Hero

InquisitorTidusSolomon said:


> Any word on whether Feeders will still give PE to friendlies within range?


Feeder Tendrils are gone. Lictors still have them on their face, and you can model them on stealers, but they have nothing in the game that represents them rules wise.


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## Critta

One query from some stuff that I've seen, the Hive Tyrant and Doom of Malan'tai are listed as having a psychic power which forces squads to take a LD then take wounds based on how much they failed by.

It seems to me that RAW (based on not having seen the exact wording in the dex) this has the potential to do damage to squads within transports.

Seems pretty nasty to me :laugh:


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## subtlejoe

How many creatures in the new dex have poison? just reading the rule book and if the strength is equal too or more than the victim you get to re-roll to wound. that me against smaller than a demon their going to dominate!


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## The Son of Horus

There are a fair number with poisoned attacks in the Codex, although they tend to come in small units, and off the top of my head, I can't think of any that are better than S4. Almost all the poisoned attacks are wound on 2+ rather than 4+, though.


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## InquisitorTidusSolomon

Concrete Hero said:


> Feeder Tendrils are gone. Lictors still have them on their face, and you can model them on stealers, but they have nothing in the game that represents them rules wise.


Oh, ok. I thought Winterous was saying that only Lictors have the biomorph in the new dex.


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## Katie Drake

Almost every unit in the entire Codex has access to poison in close combat if they want it. Toxin sacs gives a model poison (4+), which can be given to Gaunts, Hive Tyrants, Carnifexes, Genestealers and so on. I really like the idea of Hormagaunts always wounding on a 4+ or rerolling failed To Wound rolls, especially since they get to reroll 1's when rolling To Hit and have so many Attacks... :laugh:


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## Winterous

InquisitorTidusSolomon said:


> Oh, ok. I thought Winterous was saying that only Lictors have the biomorph in the new dex.


I said probably, I haven't read the new dex


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## MaidenManiac

Katie Drake said:


> Almost every unit in the entire Codex has access to poison in close combat if they want it. Toxin sacs gives a model poison (4+), which can be given to Gaunts, Hive Tyrants, Carnifexes, Genestealers and so on.
> I really like the idea of Hormagaunts always wounding on a 4+ or rerolling failed To Wound rolls, especially since they get to reroll 1's when rolling To Hit and have so many Attacks... :laugh:


Just like Katie says poison can be all over the place. Rending gets a hell of a lot better with poison thats for sure:victory: Damn shame that Raveners cant have poison...
The big question is if they beat Adrenaline Glands on Gaunts though. My bet is no. S4 I6 is pretty sick on the charge, its a little bit weaker against T3 models but will strike before almost everything in the game and on top of that it makes them bugs able to hurt vehicles

@ Critta:
Cant really say, Im not that fluent in German game mechanics...Im personally interested in which unit the HT must assault after using it. Its a shooting attack that hits all non-vehicle units within 2d6...


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## Winterous

MaidenManiac said:


> The big question is if they beat Adrenaline Glands on Gaunts though. My bet is no. S4 I6 is pretty sick on the charge, its a little bit weaker against T3 models but will strike before almost everything in the game and on top of that it makes them bugs able to hurt vehicles


I took both on my Hormagaunts, 13 points per model, but devastating on a charge.
Ok, not devastating, but good, and had a great chance of Sweeping.
Now they'll be devastating though, and soooooo much cheaper :biggrin:


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## MaidenManiac

Winterous said:


> Now they'll be devastating though, and soooooo much cheaper :biggrin:


I believe that the standard Hormagaunt will be 8 pts, this with Furious Charge. Thats quite a lot less points for about the same striking capacity. You trade WS for rerolls of all 1s to hit, but gain even higher I. Striking at the same time as Eldar Exarchs is a good way of keeping retaliation down. If people are outside of terrain that is...


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

MaidenManiac said:


> I believe that the standard Hormagaunt will be 8 pts, this with Furious Charge. Thats quite a lot less points for about the same striking capacity. You trade WS for rerolls of all 1s to hit, but gain even higher I. Striking at the same time as Eldar Exarchs is a good way of keeping retaliation down. If people are outside of terrain that is...


Almost, Hormagaunt with Furious Charge is 8pts, but you don't have to buy Furious Charge


----------



## Winterous

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Almost, Hormagaunt with Furious Charge is 8pts, but you don't have to buy Furious Charge


That's what he meant, the standard taken Hormagaunts will be with Adrenal Glands.


----------



## oblivion8

i see, well at least its not bad for players that put FT on everything XD


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

I'll be putting Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands on my Hormagaunts. 3 S4 attacks on the charge, re-rolling ones to hit, and wounds against most opponents, all at I6 ^_^


----------



## elkhantar

Yeah, but no energy weapons/hidden sarges will mean that a lot of those will be saved. And the vehicle is still quite fragile to deliver the attacks. I'm not so sure that I'm willing to pay 10 points per hormagaunt. At 8 points, however, with said S and I.

I think that I'll stick with just AG.


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

elkhantar said:


> Yeah, but no energy weapons/hidden sarges will mean that a lot of those will be saved. And the vehicle is still quite fragile to deliver the attacks. I'm not so sure that I'm willing to pay 10 points per hormagaunt. At 8 points, however, with said S and I.
> 
> I think that I'll stick with just AG.


Agreed. Stealers are the only troops that I would consider putting toxin sacs on.


----------



## Salahaldin

I thought in the new edition toxin sacs didn't increase strength, just allowed you to wound anything on a four+. (Poisoned)


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

Salahaldin said:


> I thought in the new edition toxin sacs didn't increase strength, just allowed you to wound anything on a four+. (Poisoned)


Yep, they do. I'm too tired to explain why it's so good on genestealers. So short answer: It increases their rending chance. I'll edit in the full explanation tomorrow.


----------



## Winterous

Salahaldin said:


> I thought in the new edition toxin sacs didn't increase strength, just allowed you to wound anything on a four+. (Poisoned)


That's exactly what they do.
It's Adrenal Glands which are increasing the Strength, they provide Furious Charge.
And any poisoned weapon is allowed to re-roll failed rolls to wound (it's important to remember that they must fail) if the Strength of it is equal to or higher than the Toughness of the target.

So basically, Toxin Sacs on Genestealers is a must, because against regular Marines, you go from a 1/6 chance of Rending to...

1/6 chance to Rend.
2/6 chance to wound.
3/6 chance to re-roll

So, of that 3/6 chance, you get the same chances again.
So...
You end up with a 3/12 chance to Rend.
A 6/12 chance to wound.
Aaaaand, a 3/12 chance of failing.


Ok, so it's not a _must_, but it does increase your rend rate by half.
Against MEQ that is.


----------



## DestroyerHive

I don't know, I went up against 11 Assault Termies with Lysander and my 'Stealers managed to eat them alive before they fought back. I had about 27 non upgraded 'Stealers, and the Broodlord who killed 3 on his own:laugh:

Plus they die really quick when they enter from outflank so i don't think TS are reallt necessary.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Check the rules for poison in the BRB. If you wound better than what the poison would, you can re-roll wounds.

Saves don't matter when your dishing out that many attacks. 16 Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands will average 7 dead marines on the charge. 20 Hormagaunts without(the same price) will average 5.83. Then you must also consider the fact that re-rolling is a grea way of boosting your dice rolls.


----------



## cafel

Taking a look at this codex I'm just liking the possible mobility of it. Just thinking about Trygons and spore pods makes me tingle. I generally have good reserve rolls and might add a Lictor to boost the likelyhood of reserves coming into play early. A three zoanthrope pod will stop a tank cold something like a fourth of if my math is right, and at least stop it from shooting ect. almost 90% of the time. Combine this with a venom cannon on the pod and your looking at some nice chances. Combine that with a six wound monstrous creature or two which'd take a shit load of shooting and assualting to bring down before it assaults and your lucky to be ready to face the foot slogging termagaunts/genestealers/warriors and might not even bring down some of the deepstriking element.

This codex really faced the single major complaint I had about 'nids, which was that they were way too static. Honestly I'm very optimistic about this codex.


----------



## Azkaellon

Ok this has been bugging me....(No Pun)

But have people already gotten there hands on the codex? OR am i missing something???


----------



## Masked Jackal

I don't really know, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to be told that it has leaked.


----------



## Azkaellon

Me ether, I would kill for a look at it though. *Insert Machine Gun here*


----------



## oblivion8

will they be releasing these drop pod spores in a second wave? if so I hope they are as cheap as the drop pods


----------



## bobss

> will they be releasing these drop pod spores in a second wave? if so I hope they are as cheap as the drop pods :


Rumours that around Christmas they would, but you`d need all the Rock Salt in Chester (IIRC) for this....


----------



## oblivion8

well at least they have some new fluff units, and does this spore pod have armor or does it have wounds? or does it just disappear when it lands?

I guess no one is going to be able to field them in tourneys for a while then, which is kinda disappointing (unless you make your own XD)


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

They're an immobile monstrous creature, that have a 6" ranged weapon that can be upgraded to various other weapons including; VC, BS, TL DeathS, etc. They don't take synapse tests.


----------



## oblivion8

so can u equip it with a hvy VC? S9 shot on a drop pod, paired with the zoanthropes would be sick XD


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

nope, only regular S6 one.


----------



## oblivion8

owell, still pretty nifty


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

They can only shoot at the closest target though, which makes them pretty unrealiable.


----------



## Winterous

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> They can only shoot at the closest target though, which makes them pretty unrealiable.


So a short-ish range weapon is ideal then.


----------



## oblivion8

what is the range of the hive guard? I heard it was 48" but that was a while ago...


----------



## Underground Heretic

Having seen the new codex, I would recommend being wary of they hive guard. Their gun is indeed S8 AP4, but it's special rules are fantastic. It simpley steals most of the cover and line of sight rules from the smart missile system: you can only benefit from cover you are in or touching if it is between you and the hive guard and vehicles are hit on the facing toward the guard.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

But they don't have a range all that much longer than the Zoanthropes, which makes them about the same as a Zoanthrope in terms of effectiveness (of course, ZOanthropes work better on heavy vehicles and Hive Guard better against light vehicles)


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

The range is a disappointing 24", but keep in mind you can move 6" then fire it, so it's threat range is 30".


----------



## Winterous

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> The range is a disappointing 24", but keep in mind you can move 6" then fire it, so it's threat range is 30".


Still, it's a powerful anti-transport weapon, which is of incredible use to any horde army!


----------



## oblivion8

and they gets like 2 shots each do they not?


----------



## Katie Drake

oblivion8 said:


> and they gets like 2 shots each do they not?


Yep and good thing too, since they're not very accurate shooters.  If they only fired one shot I doubt they'd be worth taking.


----------



## oblivion8

why are they BS 3? thought they were 4 =S


----------



## Winterous

oblivion8 said:


> why, are they BS 3? thought they were 4 =S


I think that's what you meant.
And yeah, I think they are BS3.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

I remembered them being BS4 :scratchhead:


----------



## MaidenManiac

Unless Im blind they are BS4

They will be the mandatory Elite slot pick in the Tyranid codex for sure. Very few armies will leave the shelves without at least 1 unit.


----------



## bobss

MaidenManiac said:


> Unless Im blind they are BS4
> 
> They will be the mandatory Elite slot pick in the Tyranid codex for sure. Very few armies will leave the shelves without at least 1 unit.


This being Hive Guard?

I heard there guns were S8 AP4 Assault 2, with a range of 48", no LOS required, and Living Amunition rules... (so... rerroll to wound?)


----------



## HOBO

I think some rumours have it at 48" but others say 24"...just march them up the board behind a cover-giving unit so the shorter range should be mitigated somewhat...maybe.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

bobss said:


> This being Hive Guard?
> 
> I heard there guns were S8 AP4 Assault 2, with a range of 48", no LOS required, and Living Amunition rules... (so... rerroll to wound?)


Living Amunition isn't in the Dex. Also, they aren't that much more ranged than a Zoanthrope.

Nids need both really, Drop Zoanthropes are great for trying to take down AV14, whilst Hive Guard can cripple transport without wasting their lifes.


----------



## HOBO

What size are these drop spore thingies...they can hold 1 Carni, or up to 20 Gaunts, or just 3 Zoans....are they going to be different sizes I wonder?


----------



## oblivion8

and what are you going to do if you wanna play in a tourny with zoanthropes =S Be extra careful I suppose...


----------



## bobss

> Living Amunition isn`t in the Dex


What the Fuck?!

This epitomized Nid Bio-weapons ffs...

No Living Amunition or Eternal warrior.... and Carni Squadrons.... Fuck sake, all the armies are just becoming to similar... they are loosing their uniqueness... short of different styles of play and of course different fluff/look then Nids are just Guard.....


----------



## Critta

HOBO said:


> What size are these drop spore thingies...they can hold 1 Carni, or up to 20 Gaunts, or just 3 Zoans....are they going to be different sizes I wonder?


From what I've heard either 20 infantry, or 1 MC.


----------



## oblivion8

I do agree that nids lost a lot of the things that made them individual, but they have kept a few things at least: synapse, MC's, and well..... thats actually all I can think of sadly 

The removal of enhancing stats, bio weapons, synapse playing a bigger role, lictors assaulting out of ds, and addition of blander rules (Im sorry but carnifex's have never been mentioned to hunt in "packs" in any of the fluff I've read) is quiet disappointing, but you got to live with what you've got I suppose. =/ at least we got new units...


----------



## subtlejoe

Carni's aren't pack creatures, but are line breaker/ shock units. i can easily imagine a horde of canifexes charging guard lines. 
As for losing the unique quality of the army i personally think they are the most unique! An army with no armour and still have massive tank buster units is impressive. shoot a russ with a lascannon it blows up *bye bye* but shoot a hive tyrant or carnifex andits only minus one wound and it goes on squishing!


----------



## MaidenManiac

@ bobss: yes it was the Hive Guard I refered to, and they are 24" weapons:wink:



bobss said:


> What the Fuck?!
> 
> This epitomized Nid Bio-weapons ffs...
> 
> No Living Amunition or Eternal warrior.... and Carni Squadrons.... Fuck sake, all the armies are just becoming to similar... they are loosing their uniqueness... short of different styles of play and of course different fluff/look then Nids are just Guard.....


That which you are referring to would be 3d ed. That stripped away fuckloads of detail form the game (imho, and I bet that almost all "old timers" will agree). 5th ed codices are actually personalizing the armies quite good again. 40k armies manage to become characterful with a good number of personal special rules while still blending well in to the rule system (something WHFB should take note of). They also get more and more FO options. SM, IG, Tyranids have all at least 30 FO entries in their Codices, with most of them even playable, which is a damn good improvement from 3d and 4th ed books to say the least 



Critta said:


> From what I've heard either 20 infantry, or 1 MC.


Regarding the Gnoffpod, sorry, Landing Spore its indeed 20 inf or 1 MC



oblivion8 said:


> I do agree that nids lost a lot of the things that made them individual, but they have kept a few things at least: synapse, MC's, and well..... thats actually all I can think of sadly
> 
> The removal of enhancing stats, bio weapons, synapse playing a bigger role, lictors assaulting out of ds, and addition of blander rules (Im sorry but carnifex's have never been mentioned to hunt in "packs" in any of the fluff I've read) is quiet disappointing, but you got to live with what you've got I suppose. =/ at least we got new units...


You never saw Tyranids in good old "Space Marine Epic" right? "I spore-pod my Carnifex company on your ass!" "Happy hunting while my Dominatrix and Hierophant jumps up and down on your Titans" 

I honestly think that the new Tyranid Codex is full of character and I really believe that it will be a very individual army on the board


----------



## Winterous

I really like that they brought back Stranglewebs, they were such a classic weapon!
Although wounding on Strength instead of Toughness, with a S2 weapon, will really only make a difference against ORKS.
Oh well, it's a flamer weapon, and all those 6s to wound will be better than one 4+ to wound any day


----------



## Master_Caleb

I recently looked through my copy at my store and here's a few first impressions I was left with, and a questions if you guys know the answer.

first is do you get extra attacks for two CCW's (I.E. scything talons, two bones swords, rending claws, etc.) Also would the new hive tyrant (can't remember his name) get +2 since he has two sets? If you get an extra attack for sets it would be insane (Genestealers get 5 attacks on the charge ?.?) My friend brought up the topic and I don't really know the answer. 

As far as my preview goes I'll break it down for what I remember

*[HQ]*

*Tyrant = Good*
He's expensive, but you get allot of bang for your buck. He's got a million options, can take guard, and has a host of psychic abilities. He's scary then he used to be, and I was quite honestly impressed, although the guard aren't as good as they used to be in my opinion. I think you'll see the return of the flyrant with their new stat line, and leech life, although I wouldn't be surprised to run into that special character one on occasion. A final good thing is that he can support your army with +1 reserve type of things. 
Advantages: Sturdy, lots of options, can provide support, good psychic powers, and can dish out allot of damage. 
Disadvantages: Expensive, and even more so when you tack on guard.

*Tervigon = Good*
It seems like a good option to me. Same cost as a fex with -4STR +2W, and a host of other abilities, including synapse. I can see running these with Adrenal Glads, and Toxin Sacs (it will save you points on your termagaunts), and the potential to spam 5 of them is open. Honestly I think these guys will do better by running two of them as troop choices so you have a heavy objective holder (along with two more troop choices for say... genestealers...). Although the gaunt farm option seems fun, I don't think I'll be playing it (although I was thinking of 5 tervigons, 6 tyrant guard, and 3 mawlocs for 60 T6 wounds and with cheap gaunts that's 2000 points). Also the FnP is awesome.
Advantages: Not to expensive, sturdy, produces gaunts, can be a troop choice, and can give FnP. 
Disadvantages: Slow, can't deal out too much damage compared to similar options, and the gaunt ability stops on doubles. 

*Alpha Tyranid (or was it tyranid prime?) = okay*
This guy isn't as flashy as your other HQ choices, but he does have the advantage of being cheaper. He's got decent options, and can help a firebase of tyranid warriors. We'll see if he pans out in the long run, but for now I can't really says he's bad or good.
Advantages: Cheap, and helps warriors.
Disadvantages: Not as sturdy, deadly, or supportive as other choices. 

*The Parasite of Mortex (I believe this was the HQ one) = Below Average*
He's not a bad HQ, but at the same time I found him to not be quite as amazing as the rest of the oppositions. First off he's the same price as a tervigon, has T5 instead of 6 and has 4 wounds instead of 6. He's built mainly for a niche with allot of ripper swarms, but the strategy seems to die when this guy bites the dust. The ability to turn sergeants outflanking into rippers, and the ability to make models turn into rippers is pretty neat though. Problem is the new rippers start to die without synapse (or this character), so you have to provide him with more synapse, and more anti-tank support, and even then an army of rippers is really sub-par. I think it would be a fun theme to play, but honestly I just don't see him being that playable. you could maybe say you want to play him to mess up scouts, but then that's allot of points that may or may not help you, and could have been spent on something better.
Advantages: Turns people into rippers, turns scouting sergeants into rippers, and stops rippers from dying when out of synapse
Disadvantages: Falls into a niche, not as touch as similar choices, and requires support from other things that strains point costs further.

*[Elites]*

*Hive Guard = Good*
T6 W2, and their no LoS weapons for the amount of points they cost is just ridiculous. I looked at these guys and new they were gonna be winners. They are sturdy, have great anti-rhino guns, and are the right size to fit behind gaunts. I can see running these in squads of 2, and tearing through a rhino, or twelve. 
Advantages: Sturdy, Good Weapon, Good Size, and Cheap point cost.
Disadvantages: Armor save isn't great so they require cover, and they aren't great in close combat. 

*Lictors = Okay*
Well the lictors are better then they were, but I'm not overly impressed. They now require synapse (alright they're ld10, but it's still annoying), and can't assault the turn they come in. On the other hand they give +1 to your reserve rolls, act as a homing beacon, don't scatter, gained a shooting weapon, have to shoot at them like night fight, and I'm pretty sure they went down in price. Although they're okay, and I can see them doing certain things, genestealers generally do it better. I can honestly see them being used mainly for the reserve bonus, or in armies with lots of drop pods where a homing beacon would be very helpful. Aside from that it seems like they're just going to get shot down before they're much of a help, but I could be wrong. One thing to not forget is when you roll a 6 with fleshhooks, you don't get -1 on the vehicle damage table (as rending makes it AP2).
Advantages: Help reserves, count as a homing beacon, don't scatter, and gained a shooting attack.
Disadvantages: Are competing vs. better elite choices, are fragile, can't assault on deepstrike, and are slightly expensive. 

*Death Leaper = Better*
The death leaper is a slightly better lictor. I really like the model, fluff, and ability to play with him, but on the other hand he's a bit expensive, but he has a trick that may make him worth playing over other lictors. Before that though, he has a list of numerous abilities, each with a funny title. One is "He's after me!", and you make an enemy character lose d3 to leadership the entire game, another is "What's that?" that makes people rolls -1 dice for difficult when they're close to him, and those sort of things. In total there's four abilities, but his best one is his ability to go back into reserves. This may not seem very useful aside from the ability to redeploy for assaults, but in reality it's useful for two main things. The first isn't as good, but if you have allot of deepstriking units then you have a mobile homing beacon. The second strategy, is if you're going second you can place him with 3'' of an enemy objective, and contest it. No scatter roll. 
Advantages: Neat tricks, can mess with enemy characters, and being able to go back to reserves means he's able to contest last turn.
Disadvantages: Cost allot of points, and is still squishy.

*Zoanthropes = Okay*
Honestly these guys are awesome, but the bad seems to outweigh the good. They have a 3+Inv, a S10 AP1 Lance, and the old S5 AP3 Blast, but they are all psychic powers at BS3. This means hitting is difficult, and the limited range on the lance means you have to be close to even have a shot. T4 means you're ML bait, and being 5 points more expensive then hive guard makes them less attractive. There's the potential to deepstrike in a drop pod, but with the amounts of librarians that we see on the table top you could even find getting the power off to be an issue. 
Advantages: Best anti-tank weapon in the game, decent AP weapons for anti-infantry, offer synapse, and a good inv save.
Disadvantages: Cost a bit of points, low BS, have to get off a psychic power, and are squishy. 

*Horror of Malantai = Okay*
He's a zoanthrope on roids. He's pretty cheap for all the extra fun, and I can see drop podding him to do the leech life thing on a ton of opponents. Having his strength equal to his wounds is kind of nifty, but overall without Eternal Warrior all it takes it one powerfist, or S8 weapons to pop him. Even T5 would have made him more playable, but as it stands he'll probably be reserved for the friendly game. 
Advantages: Can get up to 10 wounds, has some neat abilities, and still allot of the advantages of a zoanthrope. 
Disadvantages: He's very fragile with T4, and cost a good deal of points for how fast he'll probably die (10 wounds doesn't help if you suffer instant death). 

*Ymagrl Genestealers (is that how you spell it?) = Good*
When are first saw these guys my impression was beefed up genestealers. After seeing the new genestealers I was actually pleasantly surprised to recognize them as a unit with a different strategy in and of itself. First off "dormant" means they sleep in a piece of terrain you choose, and when they wake up they're placed in it 1'' away from enemy models. They can then act normally that turn, including assault. If that's not cool enough they get to choose rather to add +1T +1S or +1A every turn. This means you can have T5 genestealers with 4+ armor... sounds like a broodlord. On the off hand, they don't have assault grenades, and are a bit expensive.
Advantages: Can appear and assault in the same turn, can beef up their stats, and have better stats then a regular genestealer.
Disadvantages: No grenades, and are pretty expensive.

*[Troops]*

*Warriors = Okay*
Well they're like the rumors say. I honestly didn't pay much attention to them beyond that. They were pretty expensive base, and T4 just doesn't give them justice. I can still see them as objective sitters, but even that was kinda pushing it. I'll wait for someone to prove me wrong (which I'm sure they will)
Advantages: Tougher then most infantry, don't require synapse, have lots of options, and have 3 wounds.
Disadvantages: Expensive, vulnerable to instant death, and deathspitter isn't as good anymore. 

*Rippers = Okay*
These serve two purposes, and once is for a niche army. The first is with the parasite of malantai in which case they are the bases of your army as you probably are going to be a themed ripper army (since they can hold objectives now). The other place they will serve is cover for gaunts, and honestly gaunts would probably make better cover for gaunts. They're very vulnerable to instant death, and also vulnerable to blast being a swarm. Plus they now eat themselves when out of synapse. I can see the tunneling maybe being used for fun. 
Advantages: 3 wounds, fairly cheap, can hold objectives now, and can give off cover saves. 
Disadvantages: Vulnerable to blast and instant death, not very good at anything, and compete for troop slots. 

*Genestealers = Good*
They used to be good, now they're better. For the loses they take to some stuff, they gain stuff in others. They now cost a very small amount of points, and being so cheap I can play 120 of them in a 2000 point game (given you won't be able to upgrade them, and will have trouble having support, but look at your opponent's face when you lay that many of them down). The are still I6, and can take a broodlord, and with Adrenal glands can have furious charge. Despite all of that their best ability comes with three special rules. Infiltrate, Scout, AND Fleet! This means you can infiltrate your squads 18'' away, scout up 6'', and start with 12''. Then you have 6'' move, d6'' fleet, and 6'' assault. First turn phase out for necrons anyone? If you're going second, just follow the old mandate, and scout them. I can't see going wrong with a unit, or three of these. 
Advantages: Can start right in your opponents face, generally cheap, rending claws, broodlords, and lots of attacks.
Disadvantages: Armor save is fixed at a 5+, could end up bait if your opponent steals the initiative, and no more 1 point preferred enemy. 

*Termagaunts = Good*
What can I say? Cheap, effective, and they allow you to take a tervigon as a troop choice. The flame template is back, and the options for weapons aren't too bad, although I'd never take the devourer as it's too expensive (given you can get 90 shots with the gaunts 0_0). These guys are nice, expendable, and with the tervigon bonus you can't go wrong. I honestly think I'm going to be running two units of these so I can have two tervi's to sit on objectives.
Advantages: Cheap, Expendable, and get you a tervi slot. 
Disadvantages: Can't do much of anything to vehicles, lost fleet, and won't be able to go toe to toe with an ork boy. 

*Hormagaunts = Okay*
For a point more you get much better at close combat, gain fleet (and 3d6 take the highest at that), and lose the ability to take a tervigon. I still don't think they're a bad unit though. You can hype these guys up with furious charge, and have them make a field day with I6, and S4 vs. marines. They're cheap enough you can lose a couple, and keep going, and I wouldn't be surprised if you saw these pop back up. Even so I can see how these could be overshadowed by better troop options, but that by no means makes them bad.
Advantages: Better at close combat, cheap enough to be expendable, can reroll 1's, and have extremely high initiative for their cost.
Disadvantages: There's better troops options, you lose your gun, you can't take a tervigon for hormagaunts, and they're slightly more expensive then regular gaunts.

====Break====

Given that I'm exhausted at this point (it's late in my area) I'm gonna head to bed. I'll come back tomorrow, and do the fast attack, and heavy support optoins, but I hope this gives a good run down for the time being. 

Thanks,

~MC


----------



## Katie Drake

Master_Caleb said:


> first is do you get extra attacks for two CCW's (I.E. scything talons, two bones swords, rending claws, etc.) Also would the new hive tyrant (can't remember his name) get +2 since he has two sets? If you get an extra attack for sets it would be insane (Genestealers get 5 attacks on the charge ?.?) My friend brought up the topic and I don't really know the answer.


Nope, says right in the Codex that Tyranids never get bonus attacks for having additional close combat weapons. The upgrades that used to grant additional attacks have either ceased to exist or now do something else.



> *[HQ]*
> 
> *Tyrant = Good*


Agreed, he _is_ good. Really good, even. Personally, I'm really excited to see the return of the flying Hive Tyrant with two pairs of scything talons return. In the old Tyranid Codex everyone just took two pairs of twin-linked devourers... but those aren't as good anymore, so more power to the combat Flyrant. The nifty psychic powers make Hive Tyrants even better than before - the power that reduces an enemy unit to WS and BS1 for a turn is freaking *brutal*.




> *Tervigon = Good*


Yeah, they're good. They're just not something one would want to take lots and lots of. I'd think that two Tervigons would be enough for any list pretty much regardless of size. These guys seem to be more objective campers than anything, at least to me. Sure they can create new Termagants, but people seem to not realize just how abysmally bad Termagants are stat-wise.




> *Alpha Tyranid (or was it tyranid prime?) = okay*


He's actually called an Alpha Warrior and you're right, he does buff units of Warriors pretty nicely. You're also right in saying that he's not nearly as glamorous as the other HQ choices. Most people would rather take the Swarmlord (special character Hive Tyrant) than they would an Alpha Warrior, because frankly, slightly bigger Tyranid Warriors aren't nearly as cool! That being said though, I think these guys might be the key HQ choice in the new Tyranid Codex. In many newer books, it's the cheapest HQ choices that turn out to be the best, and Alpha Warriors can be made quite effective for very few points.



> *The Parasite of Mortex (I believe this was the HQ one) = Below Average*


Again, agreed. This guy's really nothing special. He's a cool idea and I'm sure some people will have fun with him, but I doubt he'll see a lot of use in competitive play.



> *[Elites]*
> 
> *Hive Guard = Good*


Yeah, these guys are grand. Not needing a line of sight makes these guys fantastic at ganking transports like Rhinos and Wave Serpents. I personally dread the day that the Tyranid players in my area pick up a unit of these guys.



> *Lictors = Okay*


Yeah, Lictors are decent I guess. Personally I don't have any use for them now that they're unable to assault on the turn that they arrive on the battlefield. Helping bring in Reserves is good, as is making Deep Strikers more accurate. Unfortunately though, the soul of the Lictor has been removed in this new incarnation.



> *Death Leaper = Better*


Deathleaper is what all Lictors _should_ be - highly evolved super predators that are absolutely terrifying to face. His ability to mess with the Leadership of an enemy character as well as his ability to just up and disappear if the Tyranid player decides he'd be better used elsewhere is just fantastic. I can imagine Eldar players having fits when Eldrad is struggling to cast his psychic powers because he's too busy checking under his bed for Deathleaper. :laugh:



> *Zoanthropes = Okay*


Zoanthropes are fantastic imo. Two or three of those in a landing spore and you're golden. Only Monoliths and Black Templar Land Raiders with Blessed Hull have any chance of standing up to warp lance.



> *Horror of Malantai = Okay*


Kind of a cool idea, but he's really nothing special, plus, as you say, he's extremely vulnerable. I'd pass.



> *Ymagrl Genestealers (is that how you spell it?) = Good*


Close - it's Ymgarl. 

Ymgarl 'Stealers are fantastic. If it wasn't already stressful enough to have hordes of Tyranids rushing your lines, burrowing from underground and raining down from the skies, now you have to be scared of the very terrain. I faced a unit of these guys earlier this week and I have to say, even though they didn't arrive until Turn 4 and didn't get to charge anything, they definitely pulled their weight simply by making me worry when a squad of super 'Stealers was going to jump out of some bushes and rend my troops to pieces. I can tell you that my squads stayed very comfortable in their transports for most of the game due in no small part to the threat that these Ymgarl gents present. 

Now I'm tired too, so I'll have to comment on the rest of your stuff later. So far you've done a great write up.

Katie D


----------



## Winterous

Master_Caleb said:


> One thing to not forget is when you roll a 6 with fleshhooks, you don't get -1 on the vehicle damage table (as rending makes it AP2).


That's wrong actually, it says on a 6 to wound, and obviously you aren't rolling to wound.

Nice write-up though, +rep.


----------



## oblivion8

are you shitting me, stealers have scout as well??? omfg, if you go first you could effectively wipe a medium-low mech army down to half strength at least, on turn 1  (although the chances of fighting a low mech army isn't very high). 
I have lictors and zoanthropes, and ill probably use both just so people don't say I'm being cheesy with the super-stealers. But to be honest, unless you are taking a boring army with just hive guard as your elite, then you kind of have to find good ways of using the other choices.


----------



## SHarrington

> Genestealers = Good
> They used to be good, now they're better. For the loses they take to some stuff, they gain stuff in others. They now cost a very small amount of points, and being so cheap I can play 120 of them in a 2000 point game (given you won't be able to upgrade them, and will have trouble having support, but look at your opponent's face when you lay that many of them down). The are still I6, and can take a broodlord, and with Adrenal glands can have furious charge. Despite all of that their best ability comes with three special rules. Infiltrate, *Scout*, AND Fleet! This means you can infiltrate your squads 18'' away, scout up 6'', and start with 12''. Then you have 6'' move, d6'' fleet, and 6'' assault. First turn phase out for necrons anyone? If you're going second, just follow the old mandate, and scout them. I can't see going wrong with a unit, or three of these.
> Advantages: Can start right in your opponents face, generally cheap, rending claws, broodlords, and lots of attacks.
> Disadvantages: Armor save is fixed at a 5+, could end up bait if your opponent steals the initiative, and no more 1 point preferred enemy.


k:Where is this codex at? I need to get my hands on it. The one I paged thru said nothing about Scout. k:


----------



## Winterous

SHarrington said:


> k:Where is this codex at? I need to get my hands on it. The one I paged thru said nothing about Scout. k:


The 5th ed Tyranid codex, being released in a week.
It's what this whole thread is about.


And really, if you tried Stealer-rush, if they Take the Initiative, you're FUCKED!


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Genestealers DON'T get Scout as far as I can remember.

Now I few things I have to say:

Hive Tyrant- Yes is really good, but he is pretty expensive for what he does. Nevre Shock is really the only power he will be using, its a brilliant power especially when combinded with Toxin Sac/Adrenal Gland Hormagaunts. 
Dakkatyrants are no longed the best build IMO, as they are even more expensive and not quite as effective as before.

Zoanthropes- I think, like Katie, that these guys will be essential in a lot of Tyranid lists. 

Warriors- Are still a very good choice, as they can give you an objective keeper that can give your army fire support and doesn't need to babysitted.

Genestealers- Even without Scouts these guys are dangerous. Toxin Sacs is almost a must because it makes the unit sooo much more powerful.

All in all a good summary


----------



## Critta

Master_Caleb said:


> I recently looked through my copy at my store and here's a few first impressions I was left with, and a questions if you guys know the answer.
> 
> first is do you get extra attacks for two CCW's (I.E. scything talons, two bones swords, rending claws, etc.) Also would the new hive tyrant (can't remember his name) get +2 since he has two sets? If you get an extra attack for sets it would be insane (Genestealers get 5 attacks on the charge ?.?) My friend brought up the topic and I don't really know the answer.


From the pre-release stuff I saw, you never get +1 attacks for tyranids with multiple CCW. I imagine it's buried in the book somewhere, have a proper read and you should unearth it 

One question for those who have actually read the codex. From what I saw, there was no way to give a Hive Tyrant an invulnerable save, if this is really the case, that's all pretences of him being sturdy out of the window as far as I'm concerned.

Also whilst on hive tyrant's, their psychic power, Mental Scream - what's the exact wording?


----------



## Winterous

Wait, is it just me, or are Slaaneshi Daemon weapons and Fabulous Bile going to get some love now?
ID causing weapons + 6 wound Monstrous Creature with a 3+ armour save = win!


----------



## SHarrington

Winterous said:


> The 5th ed Tyranid codex, being released in a week.
> It's what this whole thread is about.
> 
> 
> And really, if you tried Stealer-rush, if they Take the Initiative, you're FUCKED!


I meant all that as a comedic response.

In truth, most U.S. Game stores have the pre-view codex all ready in the store and displayed. That’s how I know that Genestealers don't have scout. I've actually seen it firsthand. (Both local stores got theirs on Friday)

The comedic part is, "where is this codex?", because if there was a codex out there that actually gave them _scouts_... then I want a copy of it. 


*Chuckles*
As for seize the initiative, all I can say is ... How many games have you played where the game was decided on a single throw of a d6? Too many in my case. And 5 out of 6 are better odds then I usually get.
I try to ignore seize the initiative, because it's rare to see, and rarer still that the other player has deployed to take advantage of it too.
Regardless, as they don't have scouts, such a situation would not occur as we have described.


----------



## Truefaith

Genestealers do have infiltrate base tho. So They dont get the scout move, but they can infiltrate or outflank.


----------



## oblivion8

my dreams of infiltrating scouting rending killy stealers has been shattered u.u
I will have to do with infiltrating rending killy stealers....


----------



## SHarrington

Oblivion:
Could always play Shrike. He's pretty much a broodlord with infiltration, fleet, 12" move, 2 scything talons(re-roll misses), extended cacrapace (3+ sv), power weapons, and rending.

How come Tyranids don't get anything as gnarly as Shrike?


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Shrike meet Alpha Warrior with Twin Boneswords and Sycthing Talons. On the charge, Shrike averages 1.1 wounds, while the Warrior averages 1.5 and forces Shrike to havea 50/50 chance of dieing. Even if Shrike isn't killed outright, the Alpha Warrior is going to beat him down round 2.


----------



## Winterous

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Shrike meet Alpha Warrior with Twin Boneswords and Sycthing Talons. On the charge, Shrike averages 1.1 wounds, while the Warrior averages 1.5 and forces Shrike to havea 50/50 chance of dieing. Even if Shrike isn't killed outright, the Alpha Warrior is going to beat him down round 2.


And how much does that Alpha Warrior cost?
Compared to Shrike?


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

Shrike costs 105pts more than an Alpha Warrior with scything talons & Boneswords.


----------



## SHarrington

Sorry, I didn't mean to start a "Well, I have this model so you lose, but I have this, etc, etc" debate.

I just wanted to mention that if you want a first turn charge squad similar to how the Genestealers "could" have been, had they had scouts, you could run Shrike with a command squad. 
All his deploment/movement rules apply to his squad as well, so you stick the command squad on bikes (to keep up with shrike) and arm them with appropriate armarments and have a 1st turn assault squad on par with a genestealer squad with a broodlord, that has the range to almost guarantee the assault.


----------



## flankman

yes slanesh deamon weapons are gona make nids cry (i actually have a slanesh lord somewhere lol might undust him for nids) getting the 6 to wound is hard but when you get 3+d6 attacks and I 6 its not that bad. also (on a online leak) it says that the whole unit of zoans can share a pod so deepstriking 3 zoans is a pretty reliable way to remove a unit of meqs or blow up tanks with out getting one shotted by ML/LCs first


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

I made a slight mistake with my Maths, I forgot to add Shrikes bonus attack for charging. Shrike will cause 1.67 wounds on the charge, so if he passes his Ld Test(s), he will end up killing the Alpha Warrior, but dieing in the progress.

I didn't mean to offend you with my post on how Shrike could be bitch slapped, it was more of a joke "think you can out CC Nids?" kind of thing.

However, I fail to see how Shrike is better than a Broodlord, considering he doesn't have Scouts that I can see?


----------



## SHarrington

Shrike has a jump pack.
His movement on a 1st turn assault is 18+d6 (12 move, d6 fleet, 6 charge)

A Broodlord with scouts would have 18+d6 (6 scout, 6 move, d6 fleet, 6 charge)

Thats how I see the movement would be the same all things considered equal.

As for the stats wise.. he's pretty close to the broodlord, but better weapons. *shrugs* No Psionics but has power armor. 


In reality, Shrike has 6" more then the broodlord (movement distance I mean, sickos!). I'm not trying to prove why he's better (cause I really don't know if hes better) just that that poster was fantasizing about the 1st turn charge and I showed him a way to mimic the speed of a broodlord with scouts.

Thats why I think Shrike is comparable to a broodlord if the broodlord had USR scouts.


PS. I would pay 190 points for a 5th edition broodlord who had scouts. With that USR, the Genestealer Blitz list would take on a whole new life of its own.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Ah, touche'. I didn't even consider the Jump Pack distance  

Still, first turns assualts with a Stealer Shock list would be devastating. And yes, that does explain Shrikes rise in points over an Alpha :laugh:


----------



## Katie Drake

The Genestealer rush army isn't exactly dead as it is. I faced one recently... ugh.

Hive Tyrant for HQ

Two units of 16 'Stealers including Broodlords

Two units of 20 Termagaunts to absorb bullets and be a pain in the ass

Two Zoanthropes (no landing spore, thankfully!)

8 Ymgarl 'Stealers (as if he needed more!  )

A Trygon

Basically he'd hold his normal 'Stealers in Reserve and either outflank or use the Trygon's hole to enter the battlefield. The Ymgarl ones chill out in a terrain piece before popping out at the most inconvenient time possible for the opponent, while the Tyrant and Zoanthropes look menacing, provide Synapse and pop tanks (in the case of the Zoanthropes, at least. Granted most armies would be able to take them out early on, but this was the player's first draft of this particular army). The Trygon pops out somewhere and generally acts all gribbly and nasty.

It was pretty scary, let me tell you... nobody should have to face that many 'Stealers at once.


----------



## Winterous

Katie Drake said:


> Basically he'd hold his normal 'Stealers in Reserve and either outflank or use the Trygon's hole to enter the battlefield. The Ymgarl ones chill out in a terrain piece before popping out at the most inconvenient time possible for the opponent, while the Tyrant and Zoanthropes look menacing, provide Synapse and pop tanks (in the case of the Zoanthropes, at least. Granted most armies would be able to take them out early on, but this was the player's first draft of this particular army). The Trygon pops out somewhere and generally acts all gribbly and nasty.
> 
> It was pretty scary, let me tell you... nobody should have to face that many 'Stealers at once.


D:
That's awful!
What an awful thing to do!


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

He did declare whether he was tunneling or outflanking during his deployment right?


----------



## oblivion8

well I have 44 genestealers and I was planning on buying two more boxes and a second broodlord. So if 32 was enough, then 60 should be more then fine XD

And the first turn assault is not completely gone, you infiltrate your brood 12" (if you can) and move-fleet-assault, which could potentially f-up your opponents tactics for the game completely. 

I was thinking of running 4-5 stealer units, maybe outflank 2-3 and infiltrate the rest. Have my hive tyrant, carnifex's, zoanthropes and hive guard walk up the board menacingly, then potentially have lictors, ymgarl, ravaners, and/or trygons jumping out of nowhere.

That all is, of course, hypothetical. =S considering I dont know the points of the new units, ill probably have to play some ridiculously large pt game for that


----------



## Critta

Now that zoanthropes can take landing spores, I see no reason not to put this wonderfully upgraded unit into one so it can at least assure itself one shot 

I dunno with T4 and no EW, I just see zoanthropes being too fragile to survive to get a decent anti-tank shot in otherwise.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Critta said:


> Now that zoanthropes can take landing spores, I see no reason not to put this wonderfully upgraded unit into one so it can at least assure itself one shot
> 
> I dunno with T4 and no EW, I just see zoanthropes being too fragile to survive to get a decent anti-tank shot in otherwise.


I totally agree, 2-3 Zoanthropes in a spore is dangerous.


----------



## oblivion8

you totally posted twice

you totally posted twice XD

I hope my zoanthropes will be able to survive the heat in a tourny without a spore pod, I plan on using them but i dont want them to be picked off easy. 
I think a 3+ invulnerable should let them last a while at least.


----------



## KingOfCheese

Is it just me, or does the new codex suck balls???
All of the MC's are massivly overpriced.
On top of that, people are making WAY too many false assumptions about their effectiveness.

For example, the Tervigon.
People saying "Wow, up to 18 gaunts every turn! Thats like 100 gaunts per game per Tervigon!"
Seriously, do the math.
There is a 45% chance that you will roll a double on 3D6.
This means that on average, you will probably summon 2 squads of 10 gaunts in the entire game, which is just giving your opponent more kill points.

Not only do the new additions to the codex suck (for their points cost), but the old ones recieved a massive cost increase. 

The only upside i can see to the new codex is the basic troops.
Hgaunts, Tgaunts, stealers, gargoyles, and the Zoanthrope.
Some minor changes to each, some minor changes to effectiveness, but most importantly the decrease in points cost.

Seriously, i am looking through the codex, and im just thinking that there is honestly nothing worth running at all in HQ, FA, or HS. Nothing at all.

Not that it really bothers me though, because im planning to make a stealer shock list. I have over 100 stealers, and they are what got me into the army in the first place, so at least they had some sort of improvement.

Only problem is, i have to take a HQ, and there really is nothing worth taking in the army.

Anyway, ill end my rant now. Personally i think we got screwed over pretty bad. Too many people are thinking "wow, thats awesome!", instead of "wow, thats awesome, but it wont be as effective on the table, and its cost isnt worth it".

Sorry, im just really picky on making lists doing all the math and working out the most effective way to spend points. I must be doing something right going by my win/loss ratio.


----------



## Winterous

joebloggs1987 said:


> Is it just me, or does the new codex suck balls???


It's uh, actually just you.


----------



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

The Tervigon isn't about spawning Gaunts, its about Catalyst, Synapse and buffing Gaunts with 3 USR


----------



## KingOfCheese

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> The Tervigon isn't about spawning Gaunts, its about Catalyst, Synapse and buffing Gaunts with 3 USR


Yes, i am aware of that.

The Tervigon is borderline worth its points, but it is still massivly overrated.

A lot of the other MC's are rubbish though. I mean, look at the new Carnifex.
All the talk about running 9 of them in an army, and they turn out to be WAY too expensive to justify running. I miss the Elite Dakkafex.


----------



## oblivion8

> It's uh, actually just you.


lol nice XD

i haven't seen the new dex but from what I've heard its not bad.

Point costs might be a bit high, but a hive tyrant is still an effective HQ

like said the troops are good

pyrovores, tyrannofex are bleh, but thropes (both), hive guards, tyrant guard, lictors, broodlord, tervigon, and even biovores have there use.

we go SC which is sweet 

and much much more that is going to be fun to use, people will probably just complain because they have to learn how to play tyranids again, which is fine by me, variety=fun IMO


----------



## Coffeemug

I have not seen the book so it is hard for me to make a solid argument about cost, but I do have tha old book and Fexes have been way under costed for to long. 

Compared to other units they are about30-40 points to cheap. If a fex starts with a pair of sything talons and is in the 120-30 range I have no problem with that. If it is more than that I could see where alot of you are comin from. 

From what things look like with tyrants in this thread they are also not over priced but properly priced. 

It seems that people think that a T6 modle with a 3 plus save insane I,S,WS,LD should cost 100 points. You are nutz. Bug Players are just going to have to pay for the good stuff now. Thats what I see at this point. 

It also seems that you will have to "play" the army instead of roll over any opposition with 3 units. 

I put my bugs on the shelf after sweeping a tournament with a big bug list. It was not fun. I guess I am different than ther people that actually like to play the game. 

Oh well. 

2 cents again.


----------



## Winterous

Coffeemug said:


> I have not seen the book so it is hard for me to make a solid argument about cost, but I do have tha old book and Fexes have been way under costed for to long.
> 
> Compared to other units they are about30-40 points to cheap. If a fex starts with a pair of sything talons and is in the 120-30 range I have no problem with that. If it is more than that I could see where alot of you are comin from.
> 
> From what things look like with tyrants in this thread they are also not over priced but properly priced.
> 
> It seems that people think that a T6 modle with a 3 plus save insane I,S,WS,LD should cost 100 points. You are nutz. Bug Players are just going to have to pay for the good stuff now. Thats what I see at this point.
> 
> It also seems that you will have to "play" the army instead of roll over any opposition with 3 units.
> 
> I put my bugs on the shelf after sweeping a tournament with a big bug list. It was not fun. I guess I am different than ther people that actually like to play the game.
> 
> Oh well.
> 
> 2 cents again.


I think they're about 160-ish points base, they come with Talons and (I think) a gun, but it might just be two sets of Talons.
At any rate, they have been MASSIVELY buffed.
On the charge they get +2I, and if you give them Adrenal Glands they have I4 on the charge, this is an incredible tool.
Their bio-plasma has been reverted to the old classic, a short-ranged PLASMA CANNON.
And Crushing Claws now revoke the +2I bonus, but give an extra D3 attacks, making for an INSANE anti-vehicle monster.


----------



## flankman

ya pretty much this^

id make my mine with TL devourer + bioplasma in a pod
this will give them the 2 shot limits that can sometimes whipe squads and now i'm not sure if i want scything talons/crushing claws and the other bonus's (Regen)


----------



## flankman

also...40 point monstrous creatures...how is that in any way bad  or over priced


----------



## Commander_Culln

YAAAAY!!!!!! My codex arived today, I'm so happy!!! 'ahem'


----------



## Azkaellon

Commander_Culln said:


> YAAAAY!!!!!! My codex arived today, I'm so happy!!! 'ahem'


GO Gw sending out stuff before its released!!!!


----------



## Commander_Culln

Witch King of Angmar said:


> GO Gw sending out stuff before its released!!!!


Oh yeah!!! some really nice rules in there!


----------



## Winterous

flankman said:


> also...40 point monstrous creatures...how is that in any way bad  or over priced


You mean the drop pods?
Yeah sweet, a 40 point Monstrous Creature that can't get into an assault unless it gets charged, which no one would do because it has Lash Whips so it gets to attack even if it dies!

I haven't read the rules in-depth for it, but that's what I've gathered


----------



## shaantitus

I so want more bugs but i so cannot afford the money or the time to do them up. Might just have to get the codex and mod my existing guys. That trygon seems to be takling to me though....... argh what to do.


----------



## Hive Guard

I just got done reading the new codex i wish i didn't. I sucks so bad. I have over 13k of nids and it looks like my 15 carns are of no use. guess i going to be playing my guard from now on.


----------



## SHarrington

Curious Question: How did you use 15 fex's in the last codex?

(I'm assuming your talking non apocolyse, because apocolypse rules work just fine with the new codex as with the old one.)


----------



## Katie Drake

SHarrington said:


> Curious Question: How did you use 15 fex's in the last codex?
> 
> (I'm assuming your talking non apocolyse, because apocolypse rules work just fine with the new codex as with the old one.)


Nobody said anything about _using_ 15 Carnifexes. Just owning that many.


----------



## oblivion8

13,000 pts of nids? :shok: when will someone ever play that many points?? however I guess you could have all options available to customize your army, but thats still crazy XD


----------



## SHarrington

*chuckles* Imagine how much money he could have saved if he had magnetized everything instead of buying one model for every single biomorph variation?


----------



## oblivion8

my god, if you did that, you would own like, 1000+ guants... XD


----------



## Winterous

Hive Guard said:


> I just got done reading the new codex i wish i didn't. I sucks so bad. I have over 13k of nids and it looks like my 15 carns are of no use. guess i going to be playing my guard from now on.


I'm assuming most of them are shooters, in which case you do always have the option of ripping their arms off and replacing them with something else.

The codex is good, it's been completely re-balanced though.
It's good BECAUSE it's shifting the balance of the whole game, no longer is the Slaaneshi Daemon Weapon basically pointless, Force Weapons just got a huge buff, and so did the Land Speeder Storm.

Heavy vehicle spam is less useful, since Nids have the single most powerful anti-vehicle weapon in the game now.

Transport spam is less useful, since Nids not only have the single most powerful anti-vehicle weapon in the game now, but they also have extremely powerful anti-transport weapons en-mass.

Assault Terminators (with shield) got a nerf in the form of the Swarm Lord, he forces them to re-roll their Invulnerable saves, and he gets a 4+ invulnerable against them.

And hell, so did Seer Council Bikers and Nob Bikers, Seers have a bit of a hard time pulling of their powers with Tyranids around, and Nobs have a variety of vulnerabilities, such as Bone Swords (ignoring all their saves, chance to instant death).


----------



## Winterous

SHarrington said:


> *chuckles* Imagine how much money he could have saved if he had magnetized everything instead of buying one model for every single biomorph variation?


Yeah, magnets are a Nid's best friend.



oblivion8 said:


> my god, if you did that, you would own like, 1000+ guants... XD


Was this in reference to the other quote?
If so, most biomorph variations for Gaunts are shit


----------



## oblivion8

to be honest though they didnt balance the unit choices. By that I mean force organization chart choices. In the first game it was unbalanced because there was only 1 (2 if you count warriors) elite choices. Now the new codex takes that and then goes to far offering you like 7 elite choices, all equally useful.... damned if you do, damned i you don't I suppose...


----------



## Winterous

oblivion8 said:


> to be honest though they didnt balance the unit choices. By that I mean force organization chart choices. In the first game it was unbalanced because there was only 1 (2 if you count warriors) elite choices. Now the new codex takes that and then goes to far offering you like 7 elite choices, all equally useful.... damned if you do, damned i you don't I suppose...


Actually, that's a good thing.
It means you don't just take the best of every slot, you take a unique and characterful army.
You could take 3 Pyrovores in a Drop Pod, scorch some poor unit, and sit there being a big ugly threat in their face.
You could then have Hive Guard knocking out their transports, and a some Lictors popping up to threaten the larger vehicles.

There are a lot of combinations you can use, which is a good thing.


----------



## oblivion8

Yes I suppose, but I disapprove of death leaper taking a slot to himself (should be upgrade character IMO). Also ymgarl stealers are elite, and although I wish they were something like 0-1 troops, I slightly understand why they are elite (but its still annoying). I have lictors, and zoanthropes, and I want a deathleaper, ymgarl, and hiveguard, but alas, ill have to make separate army lists I suppose


----------



## InquisitorTidusSolomon

Winterous said:


> Heavy vehicle spam is less useful, since Nids have *the single most powerful anti-vehicle weapon in the game now.*


I just got my codex today (yay for pre-ordering) but could you fill me in on this mega-weapon? Is it glaringly obvious and I'm just not seeing it? Or is it some obscure random weapon?


----------



## Katie Drake

InquisitorTidusSolomon said:


> I just got my codex today (yay for pre-ordering) but could you fill me in on this mega-weapon? Is it glaringly obvious and I'm just not seeing it? Or is it some obscure random weapon?


Warp lance from the Zoanthropes. It makes railguns look average. :shok:


----------



## InquisitorTidusSolomon

Katie Drake said:


> Warp lance from the Zoanthropes. It makes railguns look average. :shok:


Ah, I thought so. Thanks, Katie.


----------



## elkhantar

Warp lance is pretty good vs vehicles, yeah, but it's short ranged, so you have to get your guys there first. Luckily, they can drop-pod and blow a tank now  One question, though, for those who already have the codex (I'll have to wait to saturday...) is Warp Lance affected by psychich hood the SW priests and other shenanigans?

Thanx!


----------



## Katie Drake

elkhantar said:


> Warp lance is pretty good vs vehicles, yeah, but it's short ranged, so you have to get your guys there first. Luckily, they can drop-pod and blow a tank now  One question, though, for those who already have the codex (I'll have to wait to saturday...) is Warp Lance affected by psychich hood the SW priests and other shenanigans?
> 
> Thanx!


Yup, it is. There are no "latent" psychic powers that are always on in the Tyranid Codex. All of the psychic powers require a psychic test. Yes, even Warp Blast, the small blast version of the Zoanthrope's psychic attack. I don't see this as a huge problem, though. Sure, Rune Priests will be able to shut down your powers with annoying frequency, but you'll still manage to cast the power 6/10 times against conventional psychic hoods, assuming the user's leadership is equal to your own.


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## Khorothis

About the range problem with the Warp Lance: Snot Pods (forgot their clever official name) work like Drop Pods, so you just stick three Zoanthropes in it, drop in near vehicles and they'll blow them away. Shouldn't be a problem with a 3++.


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## Winterous

Khorothis said:


> About the range problem with the Warp Lance: Snot Pods (forgot their clever official name) work like Drop Pods, so you just stick three Zoanthropes in it, drop in near vehicles and they'll blow them away. Shouldn't be a problem with a 3++.


Should be a problem with psychic hoods.


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## Khorothis

Winterous said:


> Should be a problem with psychic hoods.


It might be just me, but you don't bump into psychic hoods *all the time*. I know that *I* can't do *shit* about psychic powers, along with a couple other armies. Also, that psychic hood won't be stuck on your 'thrope, its probably going to be somewhere in the front whereas your 'thropes should DS in the back. Also, 'thropes have Ld10 so I wouldn't worry too much if I were you.


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## Concrete Hero

Katie Drake said:


> Yup, it is. There are no "latent" psychic powers that are always on in the Tyranid Codex.


What about Shadow in the Warp? That's always on isn't it?


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## oblivion8

no offence, but I haven't seen a competitive marine army with a librarian in a long time. True they might show up now, but that would mean changing lists to accommodate him. Plus most tourny lists (and friendly) aim to fight all types of armies, so will probably not field a librarian as often as to annoy nid players overly.


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## Creon

Honestly, if you start snotpodding STR 10 Lances, I think you'll start seeing a lot more anti-PSI stuff on the board. just because the Mech lists are dominant now, they need to do something about that tactic. Normal development.


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## MaidenManiac

Creon said:


> Honestly, if you start snotpodding STR 10 Lances, I think you'll start seeing a lot more anti-PSI stuff on the board. just because the Mech lists are dominant now, they need to do something about that tactic. Normal development.


I totally second this!

The few times I run LRs in my army Ill make damn sure I have a Rune Priest in it, period. Youre welcome to Gnoff Pod nearby, but I wont make it easy for you! Id be surprised if normal SM players wont reason the same way. Librarians are both cheap and effective as HQ, even more so now when all Tyranids are vulnerable to Force Weapons.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord

Nids have resuscitated the librarian and the Slaanesh DW.


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## Underground Heretic

And to counter the surge in psychic hoods and other types of psychic defense, nid players will discover this amazing character in their new codex named Deathleaper. Deathleaper basically adds d3 point to the nid's roll on the contest and drop the probability of a psychic power that the nid player doesn't want to happening.


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## Azkaellon

The one thing that will tick me off about this new book is the following originally posted on warseer and ever so true....

Originally Posted by Shadowfax(warseer)
We'll see lots of Spinegaunts fielded as Termagants.
We'll occasionally see actual Spinegaunts, and be able to instantly draw one of three conclusions about our opponent; lazy modeler, fluff lover, or abject moron.


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## Winterous

Witch King of Angmar said:


> The one thing that will tick me off about this new book is the following originally posted on warseer and ever so true....
> 
> Originally Posted by Shadowfax(warseer)
> We'll see lots of Spinegaunts fielded as Termagants.
> We'll occasionally see actual Spinegaunts, and be able to instantly draw one of three conclusions about our opponent; lazy modeler, fluff lover, or abject moron.


I don't see what's wrong with Spinefists, aren't they basically just a twin-linked Fleshborer on a Termagaunt?


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord

They're only S3, while the Flesborer is S4. I'd rather have the Fleshborer and save a point.


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## Katie Drake

You basically pay more points for a more accurate, but less powerful shot. No thanks...


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## Winterous

Well that's just weak, I'd rather give them Spike Rifles.


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## Katie Drake

Winterous said:


> Well that's just weak, I'd rather give them Spike Rifles.


Naw, I'd just leave the Gaunts as is. An extra 6" of range isn't really worth it, especially when you're losing a point of Strength.


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