# Thoughts on the Fortifications in 6th



## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

So, in WD 391, there was some reference to fortifications (separate FOC) in addition to the alliances, and does anyone think that's a good idea (with my cynical hat on, it sounds like GW needs to shift more terrain as planetstrike floundered and 5th didn't encourage their use). Cynicism aside, this could present some peculiar tactical options compared to 5th (IG gunlines get boosted cover thanks to defense lines/bastions, AA batteries etc). Ideally im gonna stay with mehtal bawks warfare (I BRINGS MY OWN MOVEABLE TERRAIN!) tbh, but it just sounds like another way to sell all models in the range

So, i thought i should start a thread on this, because i hadn't seen one mentioned before. Feel Free to comment on this on the buildup to 6th and beyond.
Antonius


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## oOChrisOo (Feb 14, 2012)

I think fortifications could be a brilliant addition to the game or a horrible addition. Imperial Guard gun lines with bastions being 14 all a round it could be really annoying killing bastions and tanks, especially with armies like space marines were it will take your best weapons to kill the bastions. while the bastions that can have lascannons, aswell as the tanks being able to kill them easily. However it could bring a whole new dimension to the game which could be very interesting. Although it would quite possibly be game breaking if they gave bastions and fortresses of redemption hull points. 

In my army list I'm hard pressed anti veichle/bastion wise with a all jump pack blood angel army with 1 storm raven hopefully 2 in the future. I don't have a lot of high strength low ap weapons other then my storm ravens and inferno pistols. Although its early days yet and they might balance it somehow.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I didnt consider having a bastion with AA gus on it. Something to weaken flyers would be an intersting twist on the new rules.

But I can imagine that the bastions will get used by IG quite a lot. A hardend gun implacement will be hard to destroy and a pain for most opponents.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

there is the possibility here for games becoming just two gun lines with forts shooting it out across the table with no one wiling to move, but with forts being large expensive models not easily fitting into a figure case a lot of people may not opt for them, exciting times ahead no doubt and an excuse to start some terrain projects!


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Its a nice thought that they have included them into the game but its a shame they haven't been more imaginative about the process. 

It would have been nice for something other than Imperial stuff to get a look in, some Chaos fortifications would have been nice, especially as the Imperial, Space Marine needing a piss statue, gives imperials a buff within a certain distance.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

I am looking forward to two guys both whipping out a Fortress of Redemption out of their bag...


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Anyone know where I can get designs etc for eldar for things like web way gates?


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I don't think the Bastions will be as durable as people think - glancing hits remove hull points after all.

One turn of shooting from a heavy weapon unit would ruin a Bastion. As it is stationary it will be hit automatically by anything assaulting it - so MCs and Dreadnoughts would turn it to rubble pretty quickly.

I would probably look to bring something that could help control enemy fliers, as others mentioned above, whether this is a Bastion or something else.

I don't know what units in each codex will be better or worse against fliers at the moment.

Necrons are going to be totally evil in 6th ed., with their Gauss weapons and plenty of nasty CC weapons (Warscythes roll 2d6 for AP unless GW amend it in an FAQ) and bad ass MCs.

Tyranids should really feel the benefit, with flying MCs, and some killer jump infantry. These both get new rules for assaulting. Beasts ignoring terrain means they can run up to buildings really fast through terrain and stay in cover.

What I'm trying to say is, don't get too hung up on buildings because they aren't free and aren't indestructible.


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## xxedge72x (Dec 21, 2010)

Sounds like Whirlwinds are about to become very popular.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

As stated Hull points will make the fortifications not as burly as they seem. I like the idea of them but its one per army, it takes points away from said army if you go big, and it can be glanced to death. It does look like they have added a lot of options to them in terms of anti-air and reserve manipulation though. I will probably at least get the Aegis set just to have it.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Since you only get one fortification as well, I think the defense line will be the most popular. It includes a weapon and can cover the most area for a gun-line. It's really cheap too(50 points) and while I don't know what a Bastion would run, the Fortress of Redemption seems pretty costly at 220 points. (Probably need to see what it can do.) Another reason the defense line might prevail is that it is probably not as killable, unless they are now letting us destroy all terrain.


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## Pandora (Jun 19, 2012)

Gret79 said:


> Anyone know where I can get designs etc for eldar for things like web way gates?


I would imagine anything dome shaped should work, like the DE Webway Portals. Hmm. If I can take a larger Webway Portal as a Fortification option I may be dropping the little ones from my lists.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

I was thinking about the webway gate used in Dawn of War - They had a physical one in white dwarf it used to get used a lot for the eldar for stock pictures.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

darklove said:


> I don't think the Bastions will be as durable as people think - glancing hits remove hull points after all.
> 
> One turn of shooting from a heavy weapon unit would ruin a Bastion. As it is stationary it will be hit automatically by anything assaulting it - so MCs and Dreadnoughts would turn it to rubble pretty quickly.
> 
> ...


14 all round is actually pretty tough to take out. Yeah, glancing hits can take out hull points, but to glance it 4 times in a turn is difficult enough anyway. 9 krak missiles at BS4 average a single glance. Once you get into melta range, it'll go down pretty quickly, but that's like any vehicle really. Because Glancing hits mean far less in terms of effectiveness in 6th (no shaken/stunned ect), it'll also be far more effective until it's taken down.

Before, transports weren't too good for heavy squads because there usually wasn't enough fire points, and open topped vehicles were always too light. This will give you a hard fire point for heavy weapons squads, with a good view over the battle field. That's going to be pretty tempting for shooty armies. That said, the Ageis line for 50pts will also be pretty good, especially at such a cheap price, and because it's easily transportable to games. I think bought terrain is definitely going to be a part of most games, especially with such a cheap buy in.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

Do you think G.W will bring out generic points, stat lines for fortifications and dimensions so you can build your own, like light/medium/heavy fort and throw in species specific special rules, I think that could be cool with the right rules/restrictions.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Only if they can work out a method to charge you hideous amounts of money for the designs.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

Most likely mr unsavory, but I'd like to build my own fortress of redemption as personally I think the g.w one is hideous, and think what fun ork players would have with their pile o guns like in dawn of war. Anyway if g.w are smart they would make some modular bunker kits that you could stick together to make a light/medium/heavy fort, damn it I don't want a titan I want to spend 1000pts on a spacemarine siegfried line!!


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

Isnt that what the hardened stronghold is? 2 bastions with a crap ton of those concrete walls you can use to make huge lines of cover.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Archon Dan said:


> Since you only get one fortification as well, I think the defense line will be the most popular. It includes a weapon and can cover the most area for a gun-line. It's really cheap too(50 points) and while I don't know what a Bastion would run, the Fortress of Redemption seems pretty costly at 220 points. (Probably need to see what it can do.) Another reason the defense line might prevail is that it is probably not as killable, unless they are now letting us destroy all terrain.


Don't forget the Skyshield is an option too (gives you bonuses to your reserve rolls I think), but I'd hate to try and put that in my deployment zone. 

Of the known Fortifications the Defense Line seems like the best option. It's cheap, offers AA support to armies who don't have any, and fits in any deployment zone due to it's size and flexible placement.

Honestly I'm not against the idea of Fortifications but some generic ones (like trenches, or pillboxes) would be nice. Granted I don't have the BRB yet so I don't know what opens are available, but the idea is promising. And if it turns out to suck, no one will use it anyways.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Doelago said:


> I am looking forward to two guys both whipping out a Fortress of Redemption out of their bag...


Is that what the kids are calling it these days?



Zion said:


> Honestly I'm not against the idea of Fortifications but some generic ones (like trenches, or pillboxes) would be nice. Granted I don't have the BRB yet so I don't know what opens are available, but the idea is promising. And if it turns out to suck, no one will use it anyways.


BRB stands for Big Red Book, so this phrase should now be BYB or Big yellow book. 4th edition was the BBB or Bib Black Book.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Excellent.

Just what my Eldar/Dark Eldar needed. A unit of Plague Marines in a castle to camp on the home objective.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

humakt said:


> Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
> 
> 
> 
> BRB stands for Big Red Book, so this phrase should now be BYB or Big yellow book. 4th edition was the BBB or Bib Black Book.


It also stands for Big Rule Book (as the softback is the Little Rule Book), at least at my FLGS when we're using our little site's chat.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Do we know yet if fortifications are going to be available in every game type?

I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that the fortifications were only intended for certain game types, because as it has been noted two forts set up across from one another would be pretty stupid.


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## Dînadan (Mar 7, 2009)

Kreuger said:


> Do we know yet if fortifications are going to be available in every game type?
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that the fortifications were only intended for certain game types, because as it has been noted two forts set up across from one another would be pretty stupid.


Going by the newest WD, fortifications come out of your points allowance, so presumably they'd be allowed in all games as people generally don't roll/pick scenario then write their lists.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I still find it odd that you can 'buy' a piece of terrain. 

One thing I noticed in the WD was that they hinted terrain could be more dangerous. Does this mean random dangerous terrain like in Fantasy?


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## Dînadan (Mar 7, 2009)

humakt said:


> I still find it odd that you can 'buy' a piece of terrain.
> 
> One thing I noticed in the WD was that they hinted terrain could be more dangerous. Does this mean random dangerous terrain like in Fantasy?


Think so - p63 mentions a unit moving with range of one terrain piece triggering it's ability, and the wording of forrests on p72 sounds a lot like how you'd describe mysterious forrests in Fantasy.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

I think terrain will be popular at first and then fade out as people realise that most assault troops have grenades, cover isn't that great, and theres soo many deep strikers out there

So you have a defence line? I'll raise you trygons, or terminator units, or some daemons or a veiltek


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## Bayonet (Aug 13, 2010)

Barnster said:


> I think terrain will be popular at first and then fade out as people realise that most assault troops have grenades, cover isn't that great, and theres soo many deep strikers out there
> 
> So you have a defence line? I'll raise you trygons, or terminator units, or some daemons or a veiltek


Or my entire Army... In the case of Blood Angels ^^


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Kreuger said:


> Do we know yet if fortifications are going to be available in every game type?
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that the fortifications were only intended for certain game types, because as it has been noted two forts set up across from one another would be pretty stupid.


According to current rumors, Fortifications have a FOC slot (0-1) and count against your points total for your army. And it has to fit in your deployment zone. So yes you CAN spend 220+ points on a Fortress of Redemption, but you could end up horribly screwing yourself when you get a game type that gives you a small deployment zone (like the one that uses the short ends of the table).



humakt said:


> I still find it odd that you can 'buy' a piece of terrain.
> 
> One thing I noticed in the WD was that they hinted terrain could be more dangerous. Does this mean random dangerous terrain like in Fantasy?


Consider it your army planning ahead of time and either setting up a defense (like the defense line or air dropping a bastion in a key location) or for scenarios (like defending a fortress (Fortress of Redemption obviously) rather than you're "buying a building". But that's building an army with a bit of fluff in mind.

From what I gathered from the WD and the rumors is that there are rules for Mysterious Terrain (like Forests) but you can also designate other bits of terrain as Mysterious if you like (just like a lot of the rules, there are optional ways to use them).


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I wonder what kind of fortifications Necrons will get.


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

Gret79 said:


> Anyone know where I can get designs etc for eldar for things like web way gates?


I think something like "stargate" a great wraithbone circle with glowing runes all over. Then I think one is on the cover of the Eldar Codex. Two arcs leaning towards eachother with a field of energy between them. 

I have planes of building one myself as a terrain project, just don't know when. I'm guessing though that the technology that is needed can be built in allmost any form aslong as it shows a clear definition of the gate itself.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

I as I understand no terrain is default Mysterious, except if a TO says so for that tournament. But in friendly games you would designate terrain as now. So if both players just want simple forests then that's all they'll be. But if you choose them to be Mysterious you get stuck with who knows what. I imagine most of my regular opponents will choose regular forests.

The short-edge deployment zones would make for horrible use of fortifications. Somebody will have to leave the safety and venture out to fight. But the one with triangular deployment zones(so long as I am understanding them right) the fortifications could be insanely close.

As for buying a building. I look at it like the armies are picking easily defenseible positions. This obviously falls apart with certain choices but it's better than nothing. Maybe GW will introduce an actual model for the Drop Bastion, a fortification that starts in reserve but arrives anywhere by deep strike.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

i hate the idea of purchasable terrain. i can see why it would be fun and useful, but it seems to create a very static and WW1 style of games if both players take fortifications.

i like the idea of having fortifications on the battlefield but the way GW decided to go about it is a little bit like "well Planet Strike Failed...and we got all this stuff...Hey Ward (or whoever is the main author of 6th ed) write something to sell all of this stuff" "yes my lord"


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

It is another foc choice, you don't have to take them. Depending on my list points I will most likely skip them first if I need points.


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## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

I'll use my list to provide my own terrain (Chimera bunkers anyone?). Less terrain on my edge of a table is better (i don't reserve either, and if i did, i would get an astropath for its buff), because then i can dakka you in a killzone. Encourages me to load up on siege gear dependent on uptake in 6th ed, to murder those bastions quicklike, but otherwise has minimal impact on my list. Maybe when i convert a hydra, i would retain the Aegis line (rather than selling it on/ donating it to my LGG). I hope there's also some room or encouragement for creation of own fortresses (other than simply the GW fortress of redemption) and bastions, like the guidance in the planetstrike book (one of the actual good uses in the book).

Small Fortifications are the order of the day: Bunkers, Gun pits and Defence lines/trenches(that can also be easily generic) would be best in 6th, instead of simply: Aegis line, Bastion and Fortress of Redemption only.


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## Phrazer (Oct 14, 2008)

I just hope 6th doesnt turn into Planetstrike-by-stealth...


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## oftenwrong (Mar 24, 2009)

I’m a proud owner of 4 bastions, Fortress, landing pad, some 20 foot of wall and all the guns and bits that come with it. Since Planetstrike was such a flop and few wanted to play with the tall bastions and Fortress, I’m looking forward to finally getting to use some


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Fallen said:


> i hate the idea of purchasable terrain. i can see why it would be fun and useful, but it seems to create a very static and WW1 style of games if both players take fortifications.


I'm not sure about it making the game more static, you'll still have to move out of your 'safe area' to claim objectives and can't take your cover with you.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

> Just what my Eldar/Dark Eldar needed. A unit of Plague Marines in a castle to camp on the home objective.


Don't forget their epidemius ally giving them all 3+ fnp against everything :victory:

It is going to come down to how expensive the good stuff is. Would YOU pay 200ish points for a fortress of redemption? Would this be a 'replacement' for your transport vehicles? Look at what you'd have to give up. I personally don't think its worth it. But the armies I play don't exactly need cover....


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## Tolethmemnos (Aug 9, 2010)

As one of my rare posts! I am definately looking forward to my newly started Iron Warriors enjoying some proper Siege style warfare with Imperial fists, Imperial guard and such like.

Plus with the addition of the Allies rule...perhaps I might be able to bring out the salvaged basilisks all over again along with large fixed weapon emplacements!

''You have your faith in a pathetic corpse god, We place out faith in the biggest fortress and largest guns, what can your faith do to that?''


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Fortress of Redemption seems to weigh in at the reduced cost of a Landraider. My DW have a Godhammer LR for home camping...so that might prove a curious swap.

I can see a more tactical advantage of preventing Rhinos thundering down both sides of the board, allowing you to focus on one side/flank.

This is however, making the assumption that 6th will inherit 5th's dependance on mobility. Transports add ~£25 quid to the cost of a basic squad...so I can't see GW dropping this theme. And the Trench Warfare style died several editions ago. If you want that, play epic/LoTRs.


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