# battle of the famous librarians



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Mephiston, Tigurius, Ezekiel, Njal, and Ahriman (pre-Heresy) go at it. 

- Who comes out on top? 
- How would you rank them? 
- Who's the most destructive psyker in combat? 
- Who's the best anti-psyker psyker?

Stick to the fluff please. 

P.S. Does anyone find it weird that Njal was recruited as an adult...


----------



## Imp Blackheart (Nov 29, 2010)

what? no Sarpedon of the soul drinkers chapter? cmon they guy was a beast


----------



## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

Njal is a Space Wolf, all space wolves get recruited at adulthood, but for them it's ok, they take in most of the physical changes in the form of the wolf's blood, meaning that they can have the surguries and the stuff integrate into their bodies as adults.

Also,tabletop-wise, if it's CC Mephiston wins.
If it's shooting whatever librarian gets lucky with a shot of Vortex off first wins (Mephiston of course can't shoot anything but a plasma pistol)

Fluff wise Tigerius is "supposed" to be the most powerful librarian in the Imperium. "Supposedly."


----------



## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

All spacewolve's get recruited at adulthood? Now where did you hear that.

The astartes implantation process has always begun in the early teens. 

On topic; given that it's a fight we're talking about rather than a test of skills or specific scenario i'd give it to Mephestion. He's a very powerful psyker but also the most deadly in regular combat of the 5. He'd just have to resist the other's psychic attacks long enough to defeat them the regular way (which being a powerful psycher capable of speeding himself up, and having a pychic hood he likely could).


----------



## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

id vote Ahriman. the dude has been around for 10k+ years and is a total badass who theoretically has(should) no fear of the warp. so here comes badass spells/incantations back to back to back & repeat.


----------



## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

Rems said:


> All spacewolve's get recruited at adulthood? Now where did you hear that?
> 
> The astartes implantation process has always begun in the early teens.


All in the Wolves codex dude, check it out. It's called the Canis Helix. Also stipulates that the majority of Space Wolves are "Chosen at near death amongst the great warriors of battle, brought to fight among the gods (Paralleling Valhalla) or from among the great folk heroes of Fenris." Lukas the Trickster was already a famous casanova and folkd hero when he got recruited.



Rems said:


> On topic; given that it's a fight we're talking about rather than a test of skills or specific scenario i'd give it to Mephestion. He's a very powerful psyker but also the most deadly in regular combat of the 5. He'd just have to resist the other's psychic attacks long enough to defeat them the regular way (which being a powerful psycher capable of speeding himself up, and having a pychic hood he likely could).


Also adding in the fact that he's effectively a mini MC, but, his lack of an invulurable save is a detriment in this contest, not sure about Arhiman and Ezikel, but the only Librarian I know of in this list who gets one is Njal, and that's from his Terminator armor.


----------



## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Nicholas Hadrian said:


> All in the Wolves codex dude, check it out. It's called the Canis Helix. Also stipulates that the majority of Space Wolves are "Chosen at near death amongst the great warriors of battle, brought to fight among the gods (Paralleling Valhalla) or from among the great folk heroes of Fenris." Lukas the Trickster was already a famous casanova and folkd hero when he got recruited.


I'm looking at the codex right now and see no mention of selecting grown men. It does however state that 'youths' are selected and that the 'young men' and 'young Fenrisians' must pass the test of Morkai. Fenris is a deathworld after all. Your going to have to be a 'warrior' at a young age and a Fenrisian youth will not be anything like one of ours. 





Nicholas Hadrian said:


> Also adding in the fact that he's effectively a mini MC, but, his lack of an invulurable save is a detriment in this contest, not sure about Arhiman and Ezikel, but the only Librarian I know of in this list who gets one is Njal, and that's from his Terminator armor.


This is a fluff 'discussion' table top stats have no place in it. The stats are rough representations of power limited by the fact they have to be balanced to fit within a fair game.


----------



## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

Rems said:


> I'm looking at the codex right now and see no mention of selecting grown men. It does however state that 'youths' are selected and that the 'young men' and 'young Fenrisians' must pass the test of Morkai. Fenris is a deathworld after all. Your going to have to be a 'warrior' at a young age and a Fenrisian youth will not be anything like one of ours.
> 
> This is a fluff 'discussion' table top stats have no place in it. The stats are rough representations of power limited by the fact they have to be balanced to fit within a fair game.


I don't know what response to give you and thus I make you the joyous recipient of a shrug.

*Shrug*

As for fluff, as I have said, there really is no way to be sure about all this since in the long run it all comes down to a "My character I chose is better than yours" followed by choruses of "Nuh uh!"

FLuff says Tigurius is the best Librarian in the Imperium. So if you want a "concrete" answer from fluff that's the best you're going to get until this throwdown idea comes across Mat Ward's desk (and even then it will still be Tigurius coz it's Mat Ward )


----------



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

He is talking about the selection process as detailed in the space wolf trilogy of books.


----------



## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

Hmmm. Hard to choose.

I'd say either Mephiston simply because he's so badass, or Ahriman. I mean, both of them have an epic achievement under their belts; Mephiston conquered the Black Rage, and Ahriman managed to turn all the Thousand Sons (bar a few) into dust.

Also, some of the things Ahriman's minions can do in "Thousand Sons" are simply mad. I mean, one of them powers a Warlord titan using his mind ffs. :laugh:


----------



## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

1. Ahriman - he'd find a way to kill you with all the knowledge he has. He's gotta be pretty powerful to have cast the Rubric, not to mention he's the chosen one of Tzeentch.
2. Mephiston - much as I hate to say it, this guy's come back from death and the Black Rage. What's more is he's an absolute beast in combat
3. Ezekiel - He could probably win in a ranged battle against anyone except maybe Njall with Mind Bolt, and tbh as there's not much fluff on him, I'm gonna give him a wildcard.
4. Njall - JotWW is an absolute killer, not to mention the Wolves basically worship him as being close the the wolf gods or something
5. Tigurius - I reckon it's complete BS that he's the most powerful psyker in the Imperium (the Big E for starters), plus in tabletop the fact he doesn't have an invulnerable save really suck. Tbh I think any of the above could paste this guy.

For destruction up close it's gotta be Mephy, because he's basically and MC, and killed a fex or something with his bare hands.
For anti-psyker abilities I'm gonna go with Ezzie due to his MIndbolt and unlimited psychic hood.


----------



## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

In regards to those pointing out Ahriman's post heresy feats the op specifically said pre heresy Ahriman. 

@Luke Valentine, even in the Space Wolf trilogy Ragnar's still a 'youth'. He's in his teens and by no means a full grown man.


----------



## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

where (besides Lexicanum) does it say that Tigurius is the most powerfull psyker. I think Mephiston is the most powerfull, Tigurius might be more powerfull but in a broad sense, predicting the future for example is something he is renowned for, in terms of cc, I put my money on Mephoston,


----------



## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

It states that tigurius is the most powerful psyker inj the imperium in the space marine codex, primarily because he was able to stare into the hive mind and not die

I'm voting for ahriman, he wouldn't bother sullying himself in CC he would pull your soul out of your body and feed you to the predators of the great ocean, look how easily he killed wyrddrake, and im guessing he would have had some level of psychic protection. You don't become head psyker of the most powerful sect of psykers in the legion of the greatest psykers without being good..


----------



## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Even a preheresy Ahriman shouldn't be on the list, seeing as he's already being guided by a demon, thus unfairly augmenting his powers. 

Personally I think it's Mephiston. He really is the most bad ass of them all. We don't know enough about Ezekiel to really say, Tigurius is pretty awesome, but IIRC isn't the jury still out on how his contact with the hive mind has affected him? Njal is right up there, and if we were using 2nd Ed codex, he'd be the most powerful SM IC of all, not just libbies, but we're not, soooo.... Mephiston it is for me.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Depending on how good he's at doing what the Silver Skulls are known for, then I think Vashiro could beat them all as he'd know everything before they did


----------



## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

piemelke said:


> where (besides Lexicanum) does it say that Tigurius is the most powerfull psyker. I think Mephiston is the most powerfull, Tigurius might be more powerfull but in a broad sense, predicting the future for example is something he is renowned for, in terms of cc, I put my money on Mephoston,


Oh I personally COMPLETELY disagree with it and find the once again "Hurr durr, teh ultramareens is deh best coz they gotz teh bes psykor in teh IMPERIUM and da best captin and da best chapter mastorz, hur durr" to be absurdly offensive (As a Blood Raven, the title should belong to one of us  ) but it is unfortunately what the fluff states. I reall hope the come up with a basic Chief Librarian ruleset for 6th ed.


----------



## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Fluffwise, Ahriman would rape the face off any of them, pre or post heresy. Look at _A Thousand Sons_, his future sight allows him to flawlessly guide a ship through anti-aircraft fire, amongst other things. I have yet to see any of the others show that level of psykic gift.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> 5. Tigurius - I reckon it's complete BS that he's the most powerful psyker in the Imperium (the Big E for starters), plus in tabletop the fact he doesn't have an invulnerable save really suck.


quite obviously the writer (was it Ward?) was trying to say "the strongest psyker in the Imperium, _not counting the Emperor_" 

I wouldn't ignore the statement out of hand if it really is in the official fluff.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

So strong he can be shot by a melta gun and die.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> So strong he can be shot by a melta gun and die.


source? or are you going by tabletop...


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

What do you think


----------



## joebauerek (May 14, 2010)

I'd have to say Ahriman for 2 reasons:-

1) He worships Tzeetch for gods sake (who is a master of the warp, which is of corse what librarians do, manipulate the warp), so he'd have a slight advantage in that being an advantage.

2) Being 10 millenia old he has more experience than any Imperial librarian which gives him acess to more power than anyone else.

btw this is all fluff based since i know on table he sucks majorly.


----------



## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

I don't know about Ahriman, are you talking pre-heresy? If its post-heresy all these librarians 1v1 against him have no chance; Ahriman's been at it for 10 millenia collecting tomes of power and knowledge so i'm pretty sure he's in a completely different league. 

Even pre-heresy wise I would probably give the win to Ahriman, being trained under Magnus himself gives him a lot of clout, arguably the only person to challenge him would be Mephiston.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> What do you think


tabletop rules are not relevant in the fluff section

of course, if Tigurius has ever been injured by a meltagun in the fluff


----------



## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

Pre-heresy Ahriman would stomp them all. He hung out with Magnus the Red, for cryin' out loud. He's seen some shit. Even back then he knew things that are utterly lost to the Imperium now. Knowledge is power, after all, and no Imperial psyker in the 41st millennium comes close to Ahriman in the 31st millennium in terms of knowledge(or power, I say, but that's BL's call. )


----------



## Ultra1 (Mar 10, 2011)

i initially lean to Ahriman in year 30K, but then i stop and think that the others are 40K timeline. the imperium has had an extra 10K years to learn about the warp and how to use it effectively. Ahriman's power was set at a time when I think a lot of people weren't really aware of what the warp actually was. by 40K everyone knows about the warp and what's really in it. there's a significant amount of knowledge out there in 40K that wasn't around in 30K. so i think that puts an advantage on the 40K libs. with that said it makes it difficult to compare Ahriman to the others, but i still think he'd beat them for a lot of the previously stated reasons. being number 1 in a legion of ALL psychers has to count for something.


----------



## SynthNine (Oct 26, 2011)

Ezekiel all the way man because I like the Dark Angels so they automatically are number one!

LoL I sound like a noob. 

Honestly though I think that they are all equally matched in some way or another.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Ultra1 said:


> the imperium has had an extra 10K years to learn about the warp and how to use it effectively. Ahriman's power was set at a time when I think a lot of people weren't really aware of what the warp actually was. by 40K everyone knows about the warp and what's really in it. there's a significant amount of knowledge out there in 40K that wasn't around in 30K.





SoulGazer said:


> Even back then he knew things that are utterly lost to the Imperium now. Knowledge is power, after all, and no Imperial psyker in the 41st millennium comes close to Ahriman in the 31st millennium in terms of knowledge


interesting, two opinions at odds over whether the Imperium's warp knowledge has experienced a net loss or a net gain


----------



## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Ultra1 said:


> the imperium has had an extra 10K years to learn about the warp and how to use it effectively.


But has the Imperium actually devoted any time to studying the warp? Or rather have they spent the last 9k (M32 to M41) devolving into a nuthouse of religious fervour and accusations of witchcraft?



> by 40K everyone knows about the warp and what's really in it.


I'm sorry but bullshit. The most that any Imperial citizen knows about the warp is that it's a literal hell infested by mankind’s sins that want to eat you. Some might also know that this is the realm travelled through on long distance space flights. A very select few might even know that power can be channelled out of this dimension.




> there's a significant amount of knowledge out there in 40K that wasn't around in 30K.


The Thousand Sons dedicated 200 years to collecting and learning every single scrap of information about the warp. All of this information was then burned when the Space Wolves attacked. It is explicitly stated that the fires of Prospero burned knowledge that would never be seen again by the Imperium. Ahriman knew more then than any other save Magnus (and the Emperor) and that still holds true when compared to 'modern' 40k.


----------

