# Ogres in a WoC army



## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Are Ogres worth taking in a WoC, and if so, what should they be used as? Maybe just as human sheilds or tanks for CC with a MoK or Nurgle?

I have some sweet conversion ideas and just got my WoC army book, so I'm stoked to start making a list


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## itsonlyme (Aug 22, 2008)

Personally I wouldn't bother, dragon ogres are a whole different kettle of fish!


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Wait, you wouldn't bother with the Dragon Ogres or the Normal Ogres? Regular Ogres seem pretty mean, with 3 wounds a peice for only 35 points, and 3 attacks (4 if their a mutant) - only thing their lacking is with their WS


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## Durzod (Nov 24, 2009)

Unless you plan on being a tournament junkie, go with what interests you. If you think of ogres as a kind of heavy cavalry unit (They're tough and a bit faster than other infantry), that should give you an idea of how to use them. They can act as a link between the main line of Chaos Warriors and the flanking Knights. 
I usually equip mine with Great Weapons, as you're probably gonna strike last anyway with their I so you might as well make it hurt.
You sound like an avid modeler, so you can make your own Dragon Ogres from Ogre bulls and Cold Ones. I did it with the new Dark Elf Coldies (Put the knights on horses as effete Slaaneshi knights), but the Lizardman Coldies could also make interesting ones (less sleek and speedy, but beefier and maybe a better match). Don't know what to do with the riders, though. Unless as bitz for mutant conversions.
Anyway, the main thing is to have fun.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Personally, Dragon Ogres or Trolls fulfil all the roles that Ogres can be expected to fill, except for one.

Bodywalls - at 55pts, Trolls are too expensive, even with Mutant Regen to have multiple blocking units.

700pts however, pops out 60 wounds (2 units of 10 Ogres) and are fairly decent in CC against non elites (with their 6 attacks per base contact, and a 5+ Armour), they can make a dent in many flankers. They have M6 as well to help with countering flankers, and baiting enemy units with.


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## Anarkitty (Jul 29, 2008)

I personally like Ogres more than Trolls just for the modeling opportunities they afford.
I can envision a Slaanesh Ogre. I have ahard time with a Slaanesh Troll.
Though now that I type it, I don't know...


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

There are tradeoffs, and this has been discussed before on this forum. 

Chaos Ogres are cheaper per model and can be upgraded with great weapons, chaos armour, music (swift reform comes in very handy if the unit is next to chaos knights with a BSB and general), and marks. They are best run as a supporting unit to a warriors unit or more commonly chaos knights and ranked up min 4 to max 6 wide with at least two ranks (4 wide always means all four files get to attack even a unit with 5 20mm wide models, 5 wide will get all attacks against 6 models 20mm wide and 5 models 25 mm wide units). Only go to 6 wide if you plan to run as a horde with models in the third rank, which is a big investment and will attract and absorb a lot of magic and shooting. With T4 and 4+ AS and lower I, they can get shot up some but should get into combat quickly. I prefer the MoK due to the extra attacks and absence of panic risk, in which case they need to be in range of the BSB (and preferrably also the general) or screened by a very cheap war hound unit (which doesn't last very long) or cav to avoid the enemy baiting them into a difficult to make charge and not being able to march into battle. 

Trolls have stupidity and lower I and very low LD meaning they have to have Throgg (not allowed in our area except for special situations) and/or be close to the BSB to be effective. Yes, the regen is nice and can generate gifts of chaos over time if the unit is hit by ordinary shooting or combat attacks, but regen can get shut down now with a single flaming wound in the phase. Wound them with a flaming attack first and all wounds after that in the phase cannot be saved with regen. 

Dragon ogres are actually no longer clearly superior to ogres as before in 7th edition. DOs have 1 greater WS, 1 greater W, 1 greater S, 1 greater LD and 1 greater M. That sounds like a lot more but they cost a lot more and have the same number of attacks as chaos ogres. DOs they cannot have music or standards or marks. Thus, DOs have have a greater base points cost per wound and relatively the same cost per wound as ogres when the cost of chaos armour, MoK and music is factored into the cost of a unit of 6 chaos ogres (both with great weapons) and they cost so much that you cannot rank them up to max attacks as easily as you can with choas ogres (a lot of cheap infantry run narrow widths and deep ranks in order to remain steadfast for awhile). Also, the dragon ogres cost per attack is far greater than for chaos ogres. While the dragon ogres attacks are somewhat more potent (+1 Ws and +1 S) against models with WS3, T5+, or AS3+ or better, ogres with MoK and ranks will get so many more attacks and against normal infantry the additional potency of the DO attascks is often lost (both are wounding on 2's and hitting on 3's and 4's). With no MoK, DO units will be smaller such that they can risk panicking more easily to shooting. 
A unit of 6 DOs w GWs costs more than a unit of 8 Chaos Ogres with chaos armour, GWs, MoK and music. Both units have 24 wounds and lose their wounds at the same rate (same T and AS) but the Chaos ogre unit will get in 28 attacks (3x8 +4 for MoK) as compared to only 18 attacks (3x6) by the DOs for a slightly lower points cost. More than half the time, both units will hit at the same rate and wound at the same rate and then enemy unit with get the same save. Thus, unless you expect to see WS 3 models, T5 to T8 toughness models, and/or models with high AS of 3+ or better a whole lot, individual chaos ogre attacks will typically have the same potency as DO attacks in wounding and killing and a unit of 8 ogres with generate a lot more ACR than 6 DOs. Additionally, with 8 ogres, one can keep the supporting attacks longer and the second rank longer (3 ogres have to die before the second rank is lost if combat reforms are taken into account and only one DOs needs to die for the second rank to be lost for good) with with a unit of 6 DOs.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Cool thanks guys. Yeah, since the Ogres come with those hollowed out stomachs where the armour normally goes, I was thinking of using greenstuff to have guts and shit falling out, or one with his stomach as a huge mouth, etc. Could be pretty badass 

I figure I will take 5-10 of them rather than Chosen. (Was going to take one or the other)


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Angelus Censura said:


> ...the Ogres come with those hollowed out stomachs where the armour normally goes, I was thinking of using greenstuff to have guts and shit falling out, or one with his stomach as a huge mouth, etc....


That could look amazing.



Angelus Censura said:


> I figure I will take 5-10 of them rather than Chosen. (Was going to take one or the other)


Aeasthecitally, probably a good choice, as the metal Chosen are hard to personalise; the plastic Warriros are easier to convert but are very static so can still look very similar to Warriors.


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## Entai (Mar 21, 2011)

Angelus Censura said:


> Wait, you wouldn't bother with the Dragon Ogres or the Normal Ogres? Regular Ogres seem pretty mean, with 3 wounds a peice for only 35 points, and 3 attacks (4 if their a mutant) - only thing their lacking is with their WS


Dragon ogres are WAY better. They count as cav, so they can move quickly, with 4 wounds a piece. With 3+ attacks depending on the Mark you give them.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Sorry. Dragon Ogres can't take a mark, can't take an musician or a standard, so Chaos Ogres with MoK have more attacks per model than DOs and far more attacks per point or, more properly a far lower point cost per attack in a standard unit of the point cost. Also, think not in terms of number of wounds and attacks, but value per point in terms of potency (killiness: ability to hit and kill against a mix of common core and special units) and resilience (ability to survive combat against a mix of common core and special units). DOs and Chaos ogres have about same resiliency for a given point cost but Ogres have significantly greater average potency for a given point cost.


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## Entai (Mar 21, 2011)

olderplayer said:


> Sorry. Dragon Ogres can't take a mark.



My mistake, I got confused.


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