# Questions on HH novel Nemesis *spoilers*



## AK74Bob (Oct 2, 2010)

Beware there will be major *spoilers* here. Brothers (and Sisters), I have some questions regarding the HH novel Nemesis. Question #1 Did Eristede Kell die? The book seemed to imply that he was crashing his vessel into Horus's flagship, but he was not mentioned by Horus and Erebus at the end of the book. Question #2 Does anyone have a definitive answer for what "Spear" was? I'm guessing he was a human that was experimented on and then blended with a daemon by Erebus. The book did talk a little bit about the "black pariah" project, but it was short in explanation. Question #3 Did Spear have the ability to teleport? Because that's how I assumed he got into the guys aircar to kill him and later was able to kill the psyker Perrig. And lastly how would you all rate the book overall? I thought it was very good, probably as good as the first 3 HH novels anyway.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Ill explain.

1. Yes he died, and the reason they didn't mention him is because they don't know who he was.

2. Spear was a Pariah, who was experimented on by the Clade Culexes and turned into the Black Pariah. Then Erebus found him and gave him the Daemon to wear as a second-skin.

3. No he was just very fast and agile.

I think _Nemesis_ is a very good book, its currently among my top 3 Heresy books, with _A Thousand Sons_ and _Fulgrim_. And Spear is one of my favourite 30k/40k monsters, he is incredibly imaginative and well-written.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

Whilst it seems obvious that Kell did die at the end of the book I personally thought his end was less than clear.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that he survived, but even the way in which he died is vague. Personally I thought that he just went 'splat' against Horus' ships, but others seem to think the guns got him.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Kell died, although it doesnt explicitly state it, its fairly certain. I think the guns got him, his ship was already getting hit and wouldnt have lasted much longer. It's one of the things i didnt like about the book. it just seemed so pointless and futile, why didn't he just wait out on the planet and try and shoot Horus.

Spears origin has been explained above pretty well, though its not clear whether the assassins made him into a black pariah or whether he was already somewhat different to the standard pariah and they brought it out more. 

Nemesis for a filler book was for me very good, although it could have easily been told in the 40k setting aswell i think, it didn't show us anything more about the heresy itself. But yeah i enjoyed it, especially the way in which Spear finally bought it


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Kell died, although it doesnt explicitly state it, its fairly certain. I think the guns got him, his ship was already getting hit and wouldnt have lasted much longer. It's one of the things i didnt like about the book. it just seemed so pointless and futile, why didn't he just wait out on the planet and try and shoot Horus.
> 
> Spears origin has been explained above pretty well, though its not clear whether the assassins made him into a black pariah or whether he was already somewhat different to the standard pariah and they brought it out more.
> 
> Nemesis for a filler book was for me very good, although it could have easily been told in the 40k setting aswell i think, it didn't show us anything more about the heresy itself. But yeah i enjoyed it, especially the way in which Spear finally bought it.


Because Horus was never going to be on Dagonet.

The answer to that is pretty much obvious. Spear was made into that because no other Black Pariahs have emerged since then, and the why is clear too, because they could, why does anyone experiment on anything, because they can and the results could be good. They made Spear what he is because they wanted more power.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Never? apart from the bit right at end when he's on it right? It's not obvious though, it was clearly a bad idea and the temple has since never wanted to atempt it again. But he could have easily been a freak of nature, just like theres not been another being like the Emperor, a one off if you will. You can't know for sure which it is


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

He only landed at the end to oversee the sacrifices, and that was caused by Sedirae's assassination. If that hadn't happened then he would never even have come.

The Emperor was planned though, by the ancient Terran shamans who committed ritual-suicide and reincarnated as him, a single being. Spear is a lab experiment, the Culexes Master admits it at the end, or at least implies it.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I really don't think Spear was a pariah. When he is dicovered on a black ship and kills a psyker, Erebus assumes that is what he is. If he was though, why was he affected by Iota when she turned off her damper, or how did the demon skin survive in the material realm whilst bonded to a pariah? Also, before Spear kills Perrig, she is still able to see into his mind with her powers, and even tries to send a psychic summons to Hyssos. 

Whilst she thinks he's a black pariah, if he was none of this could have been possible, her mind would have been crushed and her powers scoured from her the second he appeared.

Also, if he was a pariah, just getting him into the presence of the most powerful mortal psyker ever surely wouldn't have been that much a danger to the Emperor. A person of his strength should easily deal with a pariah if even 95% of his power was supressed.

In my opinion, he is some sort of psychic mirror/amplifier. I felt this was implied in the novel by the fact that the plan was to get Spear close to the Emperor, and use his own reflected and amplified powers to kill him.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Where have you got that ofrom?? It never says Horus had no intention of landing on the planet. Horus was going to land on the planet, he simply sent Sedirea first to see if it was safe, and even then, Kell still could have waited to see if Horus came down, which he did, rather then going on a pointless suicide run.

And exactly its still completely vague as to how spear came about, its not definite. And even if the Emperor was the result of the shamans its still a one off event, it wont happen again, just like Spear could have potentially been a one off event


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Where have you got that ofrom?? It never says Horus had no intention of landing on the planet. Horus was going to land on the planet, he simply sent Sedirea first to see if it was safe, and even then, Kell still could have waited to see if Horus came down, which he did, rather then going on a pointless suicide run.
> 
> And exactly its still completely vague as to how spear came about, its not definite. And even if the Emperor was the result of the shamans its still a one off event, it wont happen again, just like Spear could have potentially been a one off event.


Horus would never have come to Dagonet if the Assassins hadn't started an open rebellion, and then he sent Sedirae down because he was too busy to go, knowing that the worthless masses of the planet wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Sedirae and himself.

Spear was definitely a one-off event because it is implied in the novel that he was created by the Culexes Clade, the same way Iota was, just with a different process and goal.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

You don't know that, your assuming that. Now they've assasinated Luc, wait for Horus to come down to enact his revenge and shoot him then.

And again your assuming that about Spear, he was clearly experimented on by the temple but you have no idea whether he was different to normal Pariahs in the first place, you would have thought they would experiment on more than one incase Spear died or something else happened during testing. By only experimenting on him alone suggests to me he was already different somehow


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## AK74Bob (Oct 2, 2010)

I appreciate the info/your opinions. I assumed that Kell died at the end, but was unsure of how died. The book implies that he kamikaze's into Horus's flagship...which is frigging stupid, but oh well. I thought he was going to attempt to board the vessel and get to the bridge where we would get a cool fight and some good dialogue. Would have been epic. I also was curious as to how Spear would have infiltrated the Imperial Palace in order to get to the Emperor. With the Emperor's blood inside him could he imposter him like he did with his other victims?


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## Mr_Darkness (Aug 25, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> You don't know that, your assuming that. Now they've assasinated Luc, wait for Horus to come down to enact his revenge and shoot him then.
> 
> And again your assuming that about Spear, he was clearly experimented on by the temple but you have no idea whether he was different to normal Pariahs in the first place, you would have thought they would experiment on more than one incase Spear died or something else happened during testing. By only experimenting on him alone suggests to me he was already different somehow


No, that would have been to easy.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

I the Darkness, i think If Horus thought their was an assassin on the surface, he couldve just sent a legion down to hand out the hate and discontent.

I can't really see an assassin outsmarting a Primarch...or in the eternal words of that russian guy in the trade thread, Primarh


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Too easy? Kiss my friend. Keep It Simple Stupid. Often the best way to do things


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

Apply directly to the forehead!


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Just finished it. Thought it was good. As for spear, he was altogether different prior to experimentation by the clade. Erebus added some extras but spear's abilities don't conform to anything we already know about.
Kell dies apparently although that is a bit of a low point . Seemed totally futile and wasteful. On the other hand the thing with his sister had messed him up a bit.
The thing i was most impressed with was the humanising of all the types of asassins. From the old codex they were practically robots(in action and mindset) but this book really expanded on what they were like inside. The calidius, vindicare and the culexis all now have a semi human face and we can see that they are actually people. The garantine was the best though, his portrayal is excellent, his potency and mindset.
I found the concept of the infocyte to be quite engaging as well, the digital asassin makes a lot of sense really.


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## polynike (Aug 23, 2008)

To answer the last question posed by the OP

I didnt like this one much, among the weakest of the HH so far. TS by far the best one. Very much looking forward to FH and PB!


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## AK74Bob (Oct 2, 2010)

Yeah _Thousand Sons_ was one of the best without a doubt. It still didn't feel as Grand as the first three though.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

Its sort of weird reading a book but knowing that neither of the targets die from these assassination attempts.

However it was quite clear to me that the repurcussions of killing Hours would be alot smaller(in a way) than if the Big E got "speared" so early on in the Heresy.


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

Just finished Nemesis. One of the better HH books (A Thousand Sons is still my favourite). Spear was awesome... not someone you would like to meet on a dark night.
The assassins were, in my opinion, crap! They just did not get it together and failed in their mission. What a basic mistake... waiting for Horus to arrive and announce himself to the planets citizens. Takes off helmet... *BLAM! *.
Incredible... arn't you supposed to aquire/ confirm target first? They clearly did not. I could see what was happening when Luc Sederie began to remove his helmet, it was obvious to me, so it should have been obvious to the sniper. Horus's mob would have made sure the LZ was clear and secure before they let the boss come down...
A simple error that a group of assassins should not have made! :nono:


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

World Eater XII said:


> Its sort of weird reading a book but knowing that neither of the targets die from these assassination attempts.
> 
> However it was quite clear to me that the repurcussions of killing Hours would be alot smaller(in a way) than if the Big E got "speared" so early on in the Heresy.


I dunno, true the Emperor being 'speared' as you so aplty put it would have a much worse fall out than Horus being assassinated, but i still believe that if Horus was killed at that point the Heresy would have failed completely. Yes the battles may rage on for longer, but the Emperor wouldnt have been reduced to the state he is in now, Sanguinius would most probably be alive, i doubt the traitors would have even reached Terra, and if they did the siege would have been broken by the Dark Angels, Ultramarines and Space Wolfs anyway as there would have been no final gambit to lure the Emperor away, he wouldn't risk everything to go kill Abaddon for instance, and even if he did the guy probably would have got owned by Sanguinius anyway.

So yeah, Empeor dying, worse than Horus dying, but would still win them the war i think


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## space cowboy (Apr 3, 2009)

I happen to think that the novel showed us a few things.

First is the possibility that Horus is becoming more paranoid. He did send a captain down first to a planet that was already theirs, after all. Plus the Emperor has had other assassins sent after Horus as shown at the start of the novel. Sure he may have cause to be paranoid, but I think that little bit seemed like it was supposed to show that Horus has started to become paranoid and possibly afraid of his own 'mortality', so to speak, and what his loss would mean to his cause.

Second, that the Emperor's machinations have completely unforeseen ramifications. After all, wasn't it terribly 'convenient' that the assassins just happened to be going to the planet where the item with the Emperor's blood was being held so that they could meet up with Spear and kill him while in the process of prosecuting their assigned mission? It seems like this novel, as well as Thousand Sons, have parts that were specifically designed to show us that the Emperor knows what the hell is going on and what the hell he is doing all the time.


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## AK74Bob (Oct 2, 2010)

The Emperor didn't send any assassins after Horus. It was Malcador and the head assassin guys and girls.


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## space cowboy (Apr 3, 2009)

AK74Bob said:


> The Emperor didn't send any assassins after Horus. It was Malcador and the head assassin guys and girls.


Yes, because they totally could have done that without at least the Emperor's tacit permission.


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## jasonbob (Sep 6, 2010)

Well he is pretty busy with the webway so yeah they probably could have.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

I dunno but i think the use of assassins made those under Horus more sure of thier cause though!


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## jasonbob (Sep 6, 2010)

I think the fact they they butchered their battle brothers on both Istvaan battles shows they were already pretty dedicated. Plus Luc Sedirae died Erebus kept the fact that there were assassins to himself though I'm sure Horus knew. The rest of the Legion was probably in the dark though.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Most importantly: Since when did Luc Sedirae have his own Battle Barge?


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

Well he wanted to pull over for a Burger king and Horus goes "man i ent pulling over" and gives him his own battlebarge so he can hand out the hate and discontent in the drive through!


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I'm fairly certain the Emperor didn't know about about the assaination order, never mind autherise it, wasn't that the point of the end conversation?

Probably wasn't Sediraes own battlebarge as it were, just one of the Luna Wolves was on.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

Wasnt the end convo more about using all of the imperiums resources together? and for the assassins to be brought more to the fore?

While Horus was completely against the use of *spears*


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## jasonbob (Sep 6, 2010)

bobss said:


> Most importantly: Since when did Luc Sedirae have his own Battle Barge?


Perhaps a luna wolf from another exploratory fleet did not turn to the heresey and was replaced


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## neukd (Jan 5, 2013)

As per my interpretation:

The Officio Assassinorum does not report to the Emperor. It is explained early on in the novel that they work under "don't-ask-don't-tell" conditions. Just like Vanus does not tell the Emperor everything he is up to - he is trusted to do what he must to fulfill his duty.

My opinion:

Kell's death. Felt like we were left hanging - "I am the weapon"? Expected more.


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## Michael Bradbury (Apr 13, 2020)

Apologies for the threadnomancy, but I've only just finished Nemesis (I'm filling in the gaps of the books I've missed).


Something the original posts don't seem to have picked up was that Horus knew about the Imperial assassins, which is why he sent a decoy down to the planet and why he then knows what's happening with the attack on the ship at the end. So he had a traitor highly placed in the Imperium, and there were only a handful of people who knew about this operation. Was this ever followed up? I can't remember reading about such a high ranking informant in any other books.


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