# How To Kill Abaddon



## jordan_darko (Mar 26, 2008)

Can It Be Done ! If So How ?! Big Game Coming Up For Me In The Long Run Against The Black Legion Lead By Adaddon Ill Be Using My Grey Knights How Can He Be Defeated !


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

mobbing him with terminators would be a good tactic id imagine. hes a bit harder than he used to be though, so im not sure how effective that would be.

or actually, mobbing him with any power fists would do the trick.


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## Suntalon (Apr 9, 2008)

If you are using grey knights then, send in Grey Knight termies. Their powerweapons make short work of him.

I have never had a problem killing Abbadon, he is one of the easier ones to deal with as he has to get into combat to make his points and as a termie he is very slow.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

ah, i meant to move this to tactics earlier.

*moves to tactics*


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## Cinder (Apr 3, 2008)

A Grand Master with a retinue of grey knight terminators will do the trick. Force weapons will make many characters die a quick death...


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## CallumM27 (Mar 20, 2008)

I agree with Cinder, a GM with Force Weapon does the trick. Give him some termies and you should kill him very quickly. If your really crafty then you'll have him assault you will your in cover so you get Inisitive 10 which will really kill him quick without any casulties


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## Gore Hunter (Nov 5, 2007)

a fully equipped Harlequin troop can beat him (its been done)
Or you just swarm him with Power weapons 
or just stand back and blow him to hell


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

GM with Force Weapon will not do the trick he is inmund to instant death. send in a lance strike and a vindica assassin. he should die


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

Both of those are bad ideas. Lance strikes only cause one wound against him so which means he has to walk though and sit in that same piece of terrain for at least 4 turns while the lance strike scatters little enough to still hit him. A vindicare assassin will take most likely 5 or 6 turns to take him down.

Force weapons kill differently than instant death in this version so that would work, however I thought he had a rule where psychic powers don't work against him. With Greyknights it is going to be a hard fight. IST squads with plasma guns might take some wounds off him as well as Inquisitor squad with plasma cannons. Best bet is to mob him with GK terminators. If you take a few wounds off him before you hit him in cc, there might be a chance he dies. He still strikes before you though with a minimum of 5 attacks so that might wipe you out before you get a chance to attack. Are you taking just pure GK or mixing in other stuff.


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## Cinder (Apr 3, 2008)

Well technically I believe the grand master is using a psychic power on the weapon not the character....in my opinion....dont know if that is grounds for an argument... but I believe he will die with the force weapon. Also in case if some of you didnt know, force weapons kill by making any multi-wound model have a loss of wounds not instant killing it. These are two SEPERATE ways of killiing.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

thank you i did not now that .that is agreat help


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

The thing about the assassin and lance strike, i ment to weeken him


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

Oh okie, still the assassin is still a bad idea unless he has one wound left. There are better targets that a vindicare assassin should be aiming at.


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

you guys seem to be mixing old rules with new rules for abaddon. he has a daemon weapon so he gets 5+2D6 attacks in cc. i read it in the dex. yeah, seems like mobbing him with termies is the only answer, and throw in a dreadnaut if you can. or if you can use titans then use a turbo-laser (i think it is) as it gets 2 or 3 str D shots, so he cant make a save of anykind against it and it kills him in 1 shot no matter what, cause it says so in the rules. :biggrin:


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## Changer of Ways (Jan 3, 2008)

A few wraithcannons, a character w/ initiative 6 and a force weapon, or a C'Tan all _might_... stand a 50/50 chance to do the big guy in. 

There really is no SURE way to kill him quickly... that's why he's a bad-ass, lol! :smoke:


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## morphius_ms (Apr 9, 2008)

The problem with Abaddon is that he gets 6+ D6 (on charge 5+ d6 reg)powerfist hits on initiative 6... that hurts alot!... 

I personally would NOT send termies in to hand to hand with him unless they have combat shields and even then only send ones that either don't have multiple wounds, or are immune to instant death...

The best way to kill him is to shoot shoot shoot at him with AP2 weapons , and if he gets into hand to hand hope he rolls a 1 on the extra hits cause that squad is probably gonna be wiped... and if he puts him in a landraider... your pretty much dead... 

I'm pretty sure that a force weapon would work on him in the old rules... but in the 5th ed, guess what, it won't because force weapons will be changed to say causes Instant Death... 

but maybe termies that are assaulted in cover might do the trick but remember he has an invuln save of 4+ also he has 4 wounds... 

I think the only thing that MIGHT kill him is a C'tan or if you can somehow get initiative on him with alot of power weapons... I think striking scorpions have init 7 (or something in eldar I can't remember and don't play eldar)... either that or just swarm him with like 30 guys and hope he doesn't hit his armor saves...

ps sorry about the last comment... thinking like orks


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

archon might take him out. 2+ inv save, combat drugs, agoniser.but you need some luck with 2+ saves


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## Gore Hunter (Nov 5, 2007)

Abaddon is immune to any kind of Instant death(that would include Force weapons


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

we have all ready talked about that gore hunter


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

revenant13 said:


> you guys seem to be mixing old rules with new rules for abaddon. he has a daemon weapon so he gets 5+2D6 attacks in cc. i read it in the dex. yeah, seems like mobbing him with termies is the only answer, and throw in a dreadnaut if you can. or if you can use titans then use a turbo-laser (i think it is) as it gets 2 or 3 str D shots, so he cant make a save of anykind against it and it kills him in 1 shot no matter what, cause it says so in the rules. :biggrin:


Just trying to clear up some confusions here...

D Strength weapons do cause instant death on anything that is susceptible to it. Immunities to Instant Death grants you Immunities to D-Strength weapons. If Abaddon were to get hit with a D-Strength weapon, he would only suffer a single wound per hit. One also has to wonder how they managed to snipe a IC at that range anyway...

As for Force Weapons, it was a bit of a snaffo with wording. Force weapons "kill the model outright" which is different then something causing "instant death". 

As far as killing him is concerned, deal with him the same way you would any other nasty single foe; numbers. He may have a 2+/4+ save, but the controlling player can only keep the die rolls up for so long.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I wouldn't send a Grey Knight Grand Master at him. Abaddon has a higher I value and a S high enough to kill the Grand Master in a single hit. If you do send a Grand Master at 'em, make sure he has Sacred Incense.


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## pyroanarchist (Feb 29, 2008)

Sending anything into cc with Abaddon is suicide in most cases. Howling banshees would probably wipe him off the board, but they are the one exception. If you can trick him into assaulting you while you're in cover, great. I'd assume he wouldn't do that with his prize, costs more than a Land Raider, IC. What I think some people are also forgetting about is that with his base 5+D6 attacks he re-rolls wounds because of the lightning claw. If you can't pile troops all the way around him in cc he will probably cut down enough enemies that you won't get any attacks.

I would say the best way to deal with him is a lot of firepower. Anything ap2 is great, but he still gets his 4+. I would just try to bolter fire him as much as possible. Don't let him in CC if you can help it. Heavy Bolters are great because the amount of shots you'll get on him. But really, if you can't beat his initiative with a lot of power weapons I wouldn't get in cc with him. Or if you've got a sacrificial squad to throw at him and hold him up, but I can't think of anything DH can use that is low points with invuln saves.

Hopefully this is somewhat helpful. Good luck on your game.


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## Rabbit (Apr 9, 2008)

pyroanarchist said:


> What I think some people are also forgetting about is that with his base 5+D6 attacks he re-rolls wounds because of the lightning claw.


Probably a near moot point, but his base is '4' attacks (not 5).


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

Rabbit said:


> Probably a near moot point, but his base is '4' attacks (not 5).


4 + ccw + 1 for charging + d6 = ouch


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## Changer of Ways (Jan 3, 2008)

Gore Hunter said:


> Abaddon is immune to any kind of Instant death(that would include Force weapons


Actually, Abaddon's 'Mark of Chaos Ascendant' rule states that he is "immune to the Instant Death rule". The Instant Death rule is described on pg. 27 of the 4th edition main rulebook; it covers being hit by weapons that double a model's toughness, that's it. Model's that are "immune to the effects of Instant Death" or that "ignore the Instant Death rule" (such statements are always capitalized in order to refer to this rule) are referring to being slain outright by weapons that double their toughness.
Models like the Nightbringer (Necrons) actually state that they are immune to effects of force weapons and wraithcannons.

Force weapons don't slay models due to their strength being double a model's toughness. Force weapons, wraithcannons and certain other attacks sometimes state that they "slay the opponent outright, no matter how many Wounds it has". This is not the same as the Instant Death rule.

Necron C'Tan cannot kill Abaddon outright, but their attacks will ignore his invulnerable save and will wound on 2+ as opposed to his attacks that wound on a 4+ and don't ignore invulnerable saves.


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## Ario Barzano (Jan 18, 2008)

i would recommend using Grey Knight terminators against him, and back them up with brother captain stern.mind you the only time i have seen abbdon killed was at an apoc game where my dad had 40 Grey Knight terminators and brother captain stern If that doesn't work pump masses of lascannon shots.


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## Changer of Ways (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah well, a Greyknight Grandmaster wouldn't really give you any special advantage. I hope that he survives Abaddon's attacks. The Grandmaster is I5, and Abaddon's gonna hit at I6 with 5-10 attacks that hit on a 3+, with 2+ to wound (re-rollable by the way) at strength 8, so if even one wound gets through the Grand Master is history. I hope that Abaddon rolls bad and that the Grandmaster makes all of his invulnerable saves!!

Katie's right, there's no Adamantine Mantle in the Daemonhunters list; with the Sacred Incense at least the two characters might kill each other at the same time...


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Best bet is to have a grandmaster and brother captain stern with the Grey Knight terminators. Then you have got 2 nemisis force weapons to take out Abaddon. Holy relic, Sacred Incense and icon of the just is a must


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## chrisman 007 (Jan 3, 2008)

In apocolypse, giv the Vortex grenade to an idiot on the other team. He'll give it to abbadon. Then, watch a few guardsmen die, then laugh like hell as it doubles up on him. Or, alternatively, about 95 lasguns ought to do the trick.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

what do you think of my combo


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## abaddonthedespoir (Jan 28, 2008)

While I haven't read the whole thread yet, so I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but he's usually going to have a squad of terminators with him, because almost all the chaos players, including me, at my local GW field him like that.



chrisman 007 said:


> In apocolypse, giv the Vortex grenade to an idiot on the other team. He'll give it to abbadon. Then, watch a few guardsmen die, then laugh like hell as it doubles up on him. Or, alternatively, about 95 lasguns ought to do the trick.


Actually, statistically, 95 rapid-firing lasguns will do 2 wounds


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## Estragon (Feb 25, 2008)

If you can, avoid him. Lots of points wandering around the board going 'helloooo?' would make me giggle Or tank shock with a landraider after surrounding him.
On a mildly serious note? If theres only one icon one the board, take it down. I generally wont risk a deep strike unless I can icon-strike. Not since I lost 300+ pts in one bad scatter roll.


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## Ljohnson (Apr 14, 2008)

One wound at a time HAHAHAHA


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## Psyan (Apr 6, 2008)

One on one, I'd say that C'Tan has a decent chance... but doesn't it cost more than he does, points wise?

Other than that, I'd say hit him with a DE Archite with Shadow Field, Punisher, T-Helm, Combat Drugs and Animus Vitae.. if you're looking to take him out in hth with a single character.

The Archite has a better initiative and if she has (mine is female) killed anything before attacking him, she'll charge in with 6 S6 attacks. We probably shouldn't argue whether or not she gets the charge, since she can fleet and has 12" charge as a drug option. Since Abbadon's weapon skill will be halved, she'll hit on 3s.. which would average out to 4 hits..and then reroll the misses, which should give her 5 hits, which will wound on 3's... more than 3, less than 4 will wound.. and he'll save 2 with his invulnerable save. Conservatively speaking, that's just under two wounds before he gets to attack back. That means that she should kill him at the end of her second round of attacks, but definitely by the end of the third.

Abaddon will average 7.5 attacks a turn, hitting on 4's. He'll hit 3.25 of those and with an Invul Save of 2+, the Archite isn't likely to fail that save until the the second turn of fighting, although it will only take one hit to smash her into a pulp.

I'd put her chances at roughly 50%... which isn't too shabby, considering that she costs over 100 points less than Abaddon. You could add mininal squad of Wyches with a Succubus with Agoniser and Combat Drug Dispenser for that, just to make sure the odds are tipped in your favor. Just don't let Guardsmen shoot at them before they get stuck in... massed flashlights are the Wych's worst enemy.

Alternately (or even additionally) you could swarm him with Wyches and an Agoniser wielding Succubus. 16 Wyches (with Wych Weapons) and a Succubus with an Agonizer and Combat Drug Dispenser cost 1 pt less than Abaddon. With their 4+ Invulnerable saves and Wych Weapons halving Abaddon's WS, it's going to take him quite a while to chop through them... meanwhile, the Succubus hits on 3+ and wounds on 4+.

Out of curiosity.. how have people been ruling on Wych Weapons taking away the benefit of a second CCW as relates to Abaddon? I didn't take any attacks away from him in the (admittedly rough) math I used above, since Drach'nyen and the Talon of Horus are counted as one weapon.


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## Strytec (Apr 20, 2008)

With Grey knights mass assaultcannons and give them psycannon bolts so saves whatsoever if you roll sixes to hit. Assault cannons are the most imbalanced imperial weapon in th 40k game because they have rending.


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## Chaos&Beer (Apr 6, 2008)

I use Abby every chance I can get in my army, and I think that assaulting him is an extremely bad idea. The best way to kill him is by putting as many shots on him every round as you can. Numbers will always win for you against Abby. 

When I play against my buddy's tyranid army he just wastes him with gaunts, nobody can do much against 120 twinlinked shots with living ammo. Shoot the living crap out of him every turn, he'll be dead by turn 3.


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## Changer of Ways (Jan 3, 2008)

Changer of Ways said:


> ...Model's that are "immune to the effects of Instant Death" or that "ignore the Instant Death rule" (such statements are always capitalized in order to refer to this rule) are referring to being slain outright by weapons that double their toughness.
> Models like the Nightbringer (Necrons) actually state that they are immune to effects of force weapons and wraithcannons.
> 
> Force weapons don't slay models due to their strength being double a model's toughness. Force weapons, wraithcannons and certain other attacks sometimes state that they "slay the opponent outright, no matter how many Wounds it has". This is not the same as the Instant Death rule...


Wow, nevermind.
Just got a .pdf of the 5th edition main rulebook and under Force Weapons it states specifically that Force Weapons cannot kill models that are immune to Instant Death.
This means that as far as 5th edition is concerned, we were both wrong.
Force Weapons will in fact inflict Instant Death the same way as a weapon that is double a model's toughness, but also that Force Weapons will no longer ignore that rule. Huh.:scratchhead:


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

IF psychic powers work on him (dunno, haven't read the rules), get a chaos sorceror to turn him into a spawn, or the ork weirdboy IC to turn him into a squig.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Like most characters, just charge him with equivalent points of solid close combat troops that have some kind of power fist wielding squad leader. Failbaddon is tough, but at 275 points the bastard costs more than a land raider. I'd wager 40 orks + nob with power klaw will beat him every time. Or 15 banshees + exarch with executioner, or 12 harlequins with kisses, you get the picture.


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## Regwon (Nov 22, 2007)

if abbadon is wondering around on his own really he (and ther person controlling him) derserves to be shot. hes just like any other IC in that he can only soak up so much fire. he should almost always have a retinue of terminators (ideally with icon of tzneetch) so you wouldnt be able to shoot him to death easily. in combat he will kill pratically everything so dont charge him. the two best ways to kill him is to pour so much fire into the unit that they die (at which point the rest of the army has probably killed you) or to just ignore him. he can only more 6" a turn so most armies should be ablt to stay out of the way.

just to clarity some points:

because he only has one lightning claw he does not gain the bonus for having 2 cc weapons, so his base attacks remain at 4.

he is immune to instant death but not psycic powers or (currently) force weapons.

his demon weapon doubles his Strength to 8 but only grants +1d6 attacks.


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## emperor (Apr 2, 2008)

two farseers with mind war should do the trick as you can ignore his retinue and the near suicidal act of assaulting abaddon witha full retinue of terminators can be avoided.


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