# Should the Emperor have taken command?



## Thorin Hubertson (Jun 12, 2010)

Let's see...
The Great Crusade is in its 203rd year. The Emperor has retired to Terra to work. Day-to-day-running of the Empire is managed by his Lieutenant Malcalor, while the military forces are lead by his most beloved and most capable son and general, the Warmaster Horus.
Now a psionic information reaches the Emperor from Magnus, that Horus has rebelled on Istvaan. Big-E is angry, for this kind of message has been forbidden by him, and the message damaged the psionic defences of the Imperial Palace. So Leman Russ is send to Prospero to attack Magnus.
Unfortunately, the information received was true... So within 6 Months, a large force of all available SM-Legions is mobilized (8 Legions including the Imperial Fists, who will be late and ambushed enroute to Istvaan).

Horus was the most capable of all the Emperor's Generals... 
Should the Emperor have expected any kind of a trap? 
Should he have taken command himself instead of leaving command to one of the Primarchs?
Did he really expect Horus waiting unprepared for the unavoidable attack by the loyalist forces?


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## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

'A Thousand Sons' tells of Magnus' psionic trip to the Emperor's palace, and in that it is revealed that Magnus never had the chance to actually deliver his message. Also, it tells of how he utterly destroyed the Emperor's project.

If the project is wrecked, either the Emperor was sitting sulking in his dungeon, ignorant of Horus' imminent betrayal, or he was fighting off interlopers from the warp who were capitalising on the rent in real space that Magnus had torn open, and so couldn't get out himself. Was this not, after all, where Sanguinious was later to fell a horde of chaos minions whilst the Palace above was besieged? Though that then leaves open the matter of what the Emperor was doing from when Sanguinius took over the guard?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The enemy never breached the Throne Room/Dungeons and Sangunius didn't fight a horde of daemons there- he fought them outside the walls of the Palace.

The Emperor was doing something that was more important at that moment than taking command of his forces in the Great Crusade- and when Magnus destroyed the wards protecting the Imperial Web Way the Emperor had no choice but to send all his Custodians and Sisters of Silence in to the tunnels to stem the tide of the Daemons when (The Secret War- probably a more important conflict than the Heresy itself), his troops were forced out of the Webway at incredible cost he was forced to take to the Golden Throne to secure the breach. Where he stayed for the 7 years of the Horus Heresy until he faced Horus.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Thorin Hubertson said:


> Horus was the most capable of all the Emperor's Generals...
> Should the Emperor have expected any kind of a trap?
> Should he have taken command himself instead of leaving command to one of the Primarchs?
> Did he really expect Horus waiting unprepared for the unavoidable attack by the loyalist forces?


As I believe it, the Emperor wasn't the one who ordered the Isstvan V assault on Horus. Rogal Dorn was. The Emperor (according to the _Collected Visions_) was entirely pre-occupied on the Golden Throne, taking up the vast majority of his consciousness was the burden of keeping the Imperial Webway sealed, he wasn't really able to get involved in the Heresy at all. 



Iraqiel said:


> 'A Thousand Sons' tells of Magnus' psionic trip to the Emperor's palace, and in that it is revealed that Magnus never had the chance to actually deliver his message.


Actually, Magnus did deliver his warning of Horus' betrayal to the Emperor (_A Thousand Sons_ actually confirms this). But it seems (as stated in the _Collected Visions_ I believe) that the Emperor simply ignored the warning, believing Magnus the one to be corrupted.


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## ClassyRaptor (Apr 7, 2010)

Reading Mechanicum, it explains that the Emperor set humanity up for the task of, well everything. That he also knows the futre and basically everything that will ever happen. Then why didn't he see the Heresy?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

It didn't say he knew the future. It says he set up everything he would need but not that he knew the future exactly. He may have had the gift of foresight but that's no guarantee of anything.


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## ClassyRaptor (Apr 7, 2010)

Well it certainly gave that idea, how can one set up an entire species for something he wanted them to do, if he didn't know something big was going to happen and how to get around it.
You know, like global warming


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

The emperor was the probably the single most intelligent and powerful psykic being to have ever existed. We have no idea what he was capable of.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Though it is said that his powers of foresight were dimmed in the years preceding the Heresy, he's powerful but not omnipotent even he can be frustrated in his designs.

And what if Global Warming happened? That would just be unfortunate for civilisation as we know it, I doubt it would spell the end for humanity as a species.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

then again maybe he had already an inkling of this happening and on some level knew he had to allow it, who knows what the emperor knew or didn't know, after all when he retired towork on the golden throne he already had plans for magnus to take over that aspect and i have to wonder what kind of father ignores the warnings from a son who has been nothing but loyal to him? in my opinion he knew something was going to happen and i just wonder if he allowed this to happen no matter what cost as the grand design.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

gothik said:


> then again maybe he had already an inkling of this happening and on some level knew he had to allow it, who knows what the emperor knew or didn't know, after all when he retired towork on the golden throne he already had plans for magnus to take over that aspect and i have to wonder what kind of father ignores the warnings from a son who has been nothing but loyal to him? in my opinion he knew something was going to happen and i just wonder if he allowed this to happen no matter what cost as the grand design.


A son that had disobeyed him twice telling him about his favourite, the son he raised up above all others? Of course the Emperor isn't going to listen to Magnus.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

seems to me then that the emperor like others would never have believed that Horus could do such a thing, but i still have a inkling that he had an idea something like this was going to happen maybe not horus, if i was the emperor and considering his zealous nature i would have thouht maybe Lorgar but i still think he knew somethng was going to happen.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Well all the fluff points to the Emperor not having a clue about the impending Heresy- he's not ominopentent, his visions can be clouded (which they were in the years before the Heresy).

Really Magnus caused at least as many problems as Horus, in trying to warn the Emperor he ended up putting the loyalists at a *major* disadvantage, in fact I'd go as far to say that if Magnus hadn't tried to warn his Father then the loyalists would have won the Heresy with a lot less life lost.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

The emperor was a narcissist. I find it difficult To believe that he could have thought that any of his creations COULD fail let alone did fail. Besides, lorgar was only ever loyal.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

until he was told to be more like gulliman...what a kick in the teeth


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Truly the path to damnation is paved with good intentions. The heresy occured because of the emperors failings.

Lorgar, arguably the chief architect of the heresy fell because of the emperor's insults and desire for speedy conquests.
Perturbo fell because of being largly ignored and living in Dorns shadow.
Magnus because he wanted to save his brother and save the imperium.
Fulgrim (assuming he could have discarded his sword), Angron and Mortarion are a bit more iffy, but lets say they fell out of love/ loyalty of their brother. 
Kurze was a bit weird, as he never fell because of chaos, but rather personal failings. 
we still don't know the extent of Alpharius's fall, but its possible he was doing what he thought was best for the imperium

The emperor was blinded by his trust in his beloved son, and wanted all the others to be like him, he had tunnel vision


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

i honestly believe Alpharius/Omegron is working the side lines and i am so glad that finally the up to know little known about leigon is given a reason to do what they did, wouldn't surprise me that come the end of it all Alpahrius or whoever is leading them reveals why they did what they did.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Angron fell because of his nature and his hate for the emperor, I don't think he gave a shit about what his brothers thought, he only needed an excuse.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

gothik said:


> and i have to wonder what kind of father ignores the warnings from a son who has been nothing but loyal to him?


I would actually say Magnus was one of the most disloyal Primarchs, if not _the_ most disloyal Primarch during the Great Crusade.


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## Bakunin (Mar 27, 2010)

One of the big assumptions is that the Emperor viewed the primarchs as his sons not as simply his tools to achieve somehting. Most fluff writes that the Primarchs view the Emperor as a father, the other primarchs as brothers and that the Imperium portrays them as his children and the heresy was a betrayal of a father by his son.

But the big unwritten part is what does the Emperor have to say about this? The Emperor is largely left out of Black Library fiction, with him and his character being talked about, but never really being present. There are of course exceptions. for example, 'The last church' where he is portrayed as a self righteous Richard Dawkins character, pushing his way and crushing opposition. Although he works through logic, he cannot accept any difference and is willing to do anything to achieve his way. Ian Watsons Inquisition wars novels also feature the Emperor. All the years of being on the throne have destoyed his mind, subdividing it into many multiple personalitys with no idea of what the other is doing. But that is old fluff.

What does seem to be becoming apparent to me, with the heresy novels, is that the Emperor has his own agenda and is pushing it. The Primarchs and marines see him as a father figure and are loyal to him. The Emperor sees them (and mankind as a whole) as tools to achieve his goal (or goals). Not everyone who has met the Emperor is as full of praise for him as his ultra loyal subjects. Some of his subjects are even beginning to question his motives.

With this in mind, it explains why he created the primarchs. It wasn't because he wanted sons or to create heirs to his empire. It was because he needed generals and powerful ones at that. He did not have the same loyalty for his primarchs as they had for him. But he was perfectly willing to use their loyaltys.

When the emperor created the primarchs, it is strongly hinted ne used chaos as part of the creation process. It is also hinted he knew exactly how they would be and then used their personalitys to get the most out of them. 

Magnus thinks the Emperor is acting like a father and friend, but instead is betrayed. He discovers the Emperoro keeps secrets from him and also sets up a show trial and stabs him in the back. The Emperor reveals that his big plan was to keep Magnus imprisioned on the golden throne and that was the reason he created a priumarch as psychically powerful as Magnus.

The reason the Emperor ignored Magnus warning is because he had always viewed him as a thing of chaos and when Magnus warned him, presumed he was acting as a chaos entity. So he did not react to the warning but gave up on Magnus and decided to move forward his plan of enslaveing him on the Golden throne.

One of the reasons the Custodes were so willing to wipe out a primarch was that they had seen the Emperor create them and knew that in reality they were chaos creations so had no trust for them.

Of course it is also possible that the Heresy featured in the Emperors grand plan. There are multiple reasons for this, but I think one of the most prominent is that the Emperoro emerged from the Heresy as basically a god. 

If the Emperor had acted differently, rather than telling everyone he had to concentrate on his project in the basement, he would of crushed the heresy, but would not of let the chaos in his primarchs run amock as he planned and iun turn would of lost his chance to achieve god like status.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Vali ThunderAxe said:


> Reading Mechanicum, it explains that the Emperor set humanity up for the task of, well everything. That he also knows the futre and basically everything that will ever happen. Then why didn't he see the Heresy?





gen.ahab said:


> It didn't say he knew the future. It says he set up everything he would need but not that he knew the future exactly. He may have had the gift of foresight but that's no guarantee of anything.


I would like to quote Magnus from False Gods "He might have _a_ future", meaning there are many different outcomes depending on the choices we make. Even Magnus saw into the future, but its always changing in Tzeentchs scheeming way.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> Magnus thinks the Emperor is acting like a father and friend, but instead is betrayed. He discovers the Emperoro keeps secrets from him and also sets up a show trial and stabs him in the back. The Emperor reveals that his big plan was to keep Magnus imprisioned on the golden throne and that was the reason he created a priumarch as psychically powerful as Magnus.
> 
> The reason the Emperor ignored Magnus warning is because he had always viewed him as a thing of chaos and when Magnus warned him, presumed he was acting as a chaos entity. So he did not react to the warning but gave up on Magnus and decided to move forward his plan of enslaveing him on the Golden throne.


Also the fact that the Emperor has warned Magnus twice not to pursue the practise of Sorcery, and twice he was disobeyed with the 2nd time undoing the Emperor's plans that had taken thousands of years to come to fruition. 
I don't doubt that the Emperor used his 'Sons' as means to an end, but that end was the salvation of humanity and with Magnus's interference it was a plan that was never to be.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

@ Bak,
I disagree with you on some point but I do agree that the emperor was an extreme narcissist. He did view them as his children but in the way a narcissist would view and love his children, he loved them but only to a point and once they ceased to be usefull or if they moved against him he would come down on them with all the fury he possessed. The reason that the emperor refused to believe that Horus had turned was that the emperor saw himself in Horus and that his he believed that HIS greatest creation could never fail him, in a sense HE could never fail. He had no reason to station magnus on the throne until he opened to rift.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> I disagree with you on some point but I do agree that the emperor was an extreme narcissist. He did view them as his children but in the way a narcissist would view and love his children, he loved them but only to a point and once they ceased to be usefull or if they moved against him he would come down on them with all the fury he possessed. The reason that the emperor refused to believe that Horus had turned was that the emperor saw himself in Horus and that his he believed that HIS greatest creation could never fail him, in a sense HE could never fail.


That is plausable, but ultimately its still an assumption. We don't know anything for sure when the Emperor's involved.



gen.ahab said:


> He had no reason to station magnus on the throne until he opened to rift.


Yes he did, he planned to station Magnus on the Golden Throne to guide Imperial Forces through the Webway - It was always his intention to have Magnus placed on the Golden Throne, _A Thousand Sons_ directly says this when the Emperor's and Magnus' minds meet. It also states that Magnus became aware of everything the Emperor planned for humanity (him on the Golden Throne being part of it), and he didn't seem furious or betrayed by anything the Emperor was planning, he welcomed his planned stationing on the Golden Throne (even though he knew it would never happen) as a great honour. So if Magnus was aware of everything the Emperor was planning and didn't seem distressed by it at all, we can assume that the Emperor really was acting in the best interest (from one viewpoint at least) of humanity as a species.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Ah well.... That's what I get for speed reading. Lol


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## Bakunin (Mar 27, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> It also states that Magnus became aware of everything the Emperor planned for humanity (him on the Golden Throne being part of it), and he didn't seem furious or betrayed by anything the Emperor was planning, he welcomed his planned stationing on the Golden Throne (even though he knew it would never happen) as a great honour. So if Magnus was aware of everything the Emperor was planning and didn't seem distressed by it at all, we can assume that the Emperor really was acting in the best interest (from one viewpoint at least) of humanity as a species.


It's true that Magnus didn't turn on the Emperor when he learned of his plan. However that is just another tragic aspect of Magnus. He never betrays the Emperoro even and is always simply striveing to serve him. Yet the more he does this, the more he deepens his doom. Even as his legion and home planet is being destoyed, Magnus remains loyal, but as a result makes his defeat by Russ all the more inevitable.

With this in mind, his accepting of the Emperors plan is, as you say, just one view point. But it is the view point of someone who was always trying to be loyal to the Emperor and also full of remorse for how he percieved he had betrayed the Emperor. He would of, at that point, followed the Emperors plan no matter what it was, believeing he had failed his father and not seeing how the Emperor had in fact used and betrayed him and his brother primarchs.

I see it as a delibrate irony that all the 'crimes' of Magnus are simply reflections of what the Emperor himself does. For example, the acts of sorcery that finally condemns Magnus cost the lives of 1000 psykers, Very soon after this, the Emperoro is useing 1000 psykers each day to power the astronomican. Likewise, the Emperor uses power he gains from chaos gods to make his primarchs and build his Imperium. Magnus makes a deal with Tzeentch in order to save his legion and take part in building the Emperors Imperium. 

Of course it is argueable that the Emperor is also undone by his deals with chaos and the resultant primarchs. Although I personally feel that the Emperor had predicted the Horus Heresy and saw it as the action that would make him a god. This is why the cult of the Emperor as a liveing god is shown to be rapidly growing in the series first three books. What I think the Emperor did not predict, was that it would also make him a liveing corpse with no say over the future direction of his Imperium.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

But he isn't anywhere close to being a god as it stands, if he always wanted this to happen, if the great crusade had been a success it could be argued that, to the people of the imperium, his divinity would have become all the more apparent and humanity would have worshiped him all the same. Ultimately, he lost the crusade, his life, and the imperium in the heresy. If he dies, assuming that all the souls of humanity do go to the emperor, he could become a warp god more powerful than any one of the chaos gods but I doubt he foresaw this. I think you may put to much stock in the emperors ability to foretell the future.


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## Bakunin (Mar 27, 2010)

Its not really the Emperors ability to foretell the future, but his ability to plan the future and then set events in motion that will fulfill his plans. The problem is that even the best made plans can go a bit wrong.

If the crusade had continued to go to plan then it is true that people would of worshipped him as a god. However, the majority wouldn't. He would of been seen as a great man, but not a god and his empire built upon logic would of easily crushed arguements that he was a god. The fluff says that some SM chapters don't teach thed Emperor is a god, but follow the pre-heresy teachings that he is just the greatest man who ever lived.

What the Emperor needed was a clean slate where all previous gods and religions were dismissed as superstitious nonsense. Logic would be the new power in the universe. On top of this, the dictatorship of the Emperor was required, where his word and commands were not questioned.

Once this was in place, the Emperor was in a position to seem like a god, but to get the people worshiping him, he needed to be seen to guide them through an event of massive turmoil and also to defeat a supernatural evil. The Horus Heresy served this purpose, unfortunately it didn't end how he planned it and instead of being a god, his warp presence remained bound to his corpse on the golden throne, but constantly manintianed by the individuals who worship him in the organised religion of the Imperium.

But I accept there is another possibility. The Emperor truely never intended to be a god, but people started believeing this is how he was. Belief caused the release of his psychic energy through some individuals, which of cause was interpreted as miracles. The Heresy and subsequent turmoil then sealed his fate of being regarded as a god. The fact that he is worshipped allows his warp presence to be fed by energy and maintained, makeing him a god, but trapping him, since he is still tied to the golden throne and the corpse on it (in a similair way that a daemon is bound to a daemon host.)


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## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

I think Horus was right and the Emp. was intending to become a God, just not in the way that Horus thought. If Magnus could see this coming I am sure the Emp. could to. Magnus was so dumb that he thought he could make deals with Chaos and come out on the winning side - you can see where that got him. At any rate, my theory is that the emp. knew all of these things were going to happen - including his maiming, so that the galaxy would be set up to worship him the way it does in 40k. 

**SPOILER**

In 1000 sons the emp. named the legion before he found Magnus "1000 sons", when Magnus "cured" the legion of the Mutation they suffered from they had been widdled down to 1000. Further, after they escaped from Prospero there were only a few more than 1000 SM left... and they were losing numbers do to the mutation and prior to Ahriman casting the Rubric. How much do you want to bet the # of SM was down to 1000 by the time he got around to casting it? Which begs the question "Did the Emp. know that the children of Magnus would turn to Chaos?" I think he did - I actualy think he planned on it.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Bakunin said:


> With this in mind, his accepting of the Emperors plan is, as you say, just one view point. But it is the view point of someone who was always trying to be loyal to the Emperor and also full of remorse for how he percieved he had betrayed the Emperor. He would of, at that point, followed the Emperors plan no matter what it was, believeing he had failed his father and not seeing how the Emperor had in fact used and betrayed him and his brother primarchs.


Indeed. But what I was trying to say was that if the Emperor ultimately planned to ascend himself to godhood, or had some other bleak and selfish plan for humanity, Magnus would have been aware of it in the moment their minds connected. Even given the circumstances of Magnus' warning, I would still presume that his faith and loyalty in the Emperor would have been shaken if this was the case. But it wasn't, he grimly accepted his fate to be administered by the Emperor's Wolves. Thus it can be assumed (by this admittedly weak argument, with no other concrete basis or evidence) that the Emperor wasn't planning to ascend to godhood, or any other selfish goal, what he intended was indeed for the good of the species (from one viewpoint obviously).



Zooey72 said:


> Magnus was so dumb that he thought he could make deals with Chaos and come out on the winning side - you can see where that got him.


I could just as easily say: 'The Emperor was so dumb that he thought he could make deals with Chaos and come out on the winning side - you can see where that got him.' 



Zooey72 said:


> At any rate, my theory is that the emp. knew all of these things were going to happen - including his maiming, so that the galaxy would be set up to worship him the way it does in 40k.


The issue though is that the Emperor's existence has, for the last ten thousand years been one of pure agony and depridation. His consciousness has been shattered, he endures terrible burdens and every thought process and ability is focussed solely on allowing Mankind to endure as a species and stave of the worst depridations of Chaos. Not exactly an existence I would plan for.


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

On the note of "Did the Emperor see the Heresy coming?", I don't think he did. I mean, if you think about it, the Corvadie (Or whatever the precognitive Thousands Sons cult is called) had to navigate the warp to see the strands of the future, and at some points it was almost impossible, and the cult lost prominence. Also, Magnus was able to cover Prospero in a psychic bubble to prevent his sons finding out about the coming of the Space Wolves. Baring in mind that all psychic powers are derived from the warp, we know that the warp holds the power to seeing the future. 

So, because we know that the Powers of Chaos want to take humanity, and as such orchestrated the fall of half of the Primarchs, then they could also have done other things, such as create a similar psychic bubble around Terra, stopping the Emperor from seeing the Heresy. Or, they could have (since we are told the warp has no real beginning or end, it merely is) from the 'beginning' of their reigns, the Chaos powers could have concealed that future from the Emperor, or let him see what they wanted him to see, which might not have been the heresy. And since all the future are held within the warp, they could have fed him a future which had him as a god, and then orchestrated it so that future never came to be. That's just my theory anyway!


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## Bakunin (Mar 27, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Indeed. But what I was trying to say was that if the Emperor ultimately planned to ascend himself to godhood, or had some other bleak and selfish plan for humanity, Magnus would have been aware of it in the moment their minds connected. Even given the circumstances of Magnus' warning, I would still presume that his faith and loyalty in the Emperor would have been shaken if this was the case. But it wasn't, he grimly accepted his fate to be administered by the Emperor's Wolves. Thus it can be assumed (by this admittedly weak argument, with no other concrete basis or evidence) that the Emperor wasn't planning to ascend to godhood, or any other selfish goal, what he intended was indeed for the good of the species (from one viewpoint obviously).


I see what your saying, but I'd argue that this is wrong on a number of areas. Firstly, the Emperor was a more powerful psyker than Magnus. When Magnus attempted to warn him and his mind connected with the Emperors, the Emperor took control. What he saw was not only form the Emperors perspective but the Emperor controlled whatr he saw. He revealed to Magnus how he was truely a thing of chaos because of his dabblings with sorcery, his anger at how Magnus had undone his work, protrayed life on the Golden throne as wonderful and so on. 

If it had been a true exchange, the Emperor might of taken more notice of the warning that Magnus was attempting to bring. He might of also seen flaws in his own plans and how his arrogance was leading to millenia of war. But instead the Emperor was in control and he was controlling what Magnus was being shown and also how it was presented to Magnus. Perhaps his ultimate aim of becomeing a God and (as has been hinted at) he learnt this from chaos while attempting to use the powers of chaos for other projects, remained hidden from Magnus. Perhaps it was presented as the ultimate glory for humanity.

Wether Magnus learnt all the Emperors plans or not, he already truely believed in everything the Emperor was doing, was blind to the fact that like the other primarchs, he was the simply a tool to be used by the Emperor and the first thing that was revealed to him when he tried to warn the Emperor was how he was a thing of chaos, a betrayer and how he had just jepordised what the Emperor saw as his greatest plan. 

The second thing to remember is that Magnus had a very open mind to useing the warp and its teachings. He might not of recoiled from learning the Emperoro had doscovered a way of becoming a God and a way of rivalling the chaos powers. He might of seen it as the ultimate way of taming the warp and useing for the good of mankind. Just as he saw nothing wrong with his legion haveing Daemon familiars, it is possible he saw the Emperor becomeing a powerful warp entity as outwaying any possible badside. He loved the Emperor, despite the facts, despite him already punishing him for what he saw as doing no wrong. Why question him now? 

Of course it does raise the question of why the Emperor was being so secretive. Why he had not previously discussed the warp gate with Magnus while Magnus, by contrast, proudly told him of his discovery of one and showed his understanding of the potential importance of it. But I guess the Emperor moves in mysterious ways.

The final thing worth bearing in mind with Magnus is the fact that he was already a creature of chaos. Although he was not aware of it, like the other primarchs, he had been created with chaos power. He had already done a bargain with Tzeentch and he was slowly being corrupted by the over use of forbidden power. As such, his views and ideas were not necessarily rational ones, but those of a servant of chaos and one that was being actively played by Tzeentch. His continued use of magic and his encourageing its use amongst his Legion post Nikea is a good example of this. 

With this in mind, he might of welcomed everything the Emperor showed him, including the idea of becomeing a god (if that was shown to him) because he thought it was for the good of the species, but truely because he was already thinking as a creature of chaos.

Of course, Magnus ultimately represents the defeat of the Emperor and his plans by Tzeentch, while Magnus was the unknowing tool. The Emperor delibrately created Magnus to be a powerful psyker (probably useing power from chaos). he thought he could control him and use him as his tool. Yet this tool inevitably drifts towards chaos. The Emperor is prepared for this and possibly factors this into his long term plans. Yet Tzeentch manipulates Magnus, so that each action he does to prevent his downfall, makes it more inevitable. The Emperors hamfisted attempts to control Magnus means that an event that could of let the Emperor have control over his future and the events of the Heresy, means that Magnus is forced to attemtpt a warning that not only plunges the palace into chaos, but basically seals the fate of the Emperor as a powerless god on the golden throne. In many ways, the story of Magnus is not about him being claimed by Tzeentch and being undone for dealings with chaos, but the story of the Emperors downfall for thinking he could deal with chaos and not be brought down by the chaos gods.





Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The issue though is that the Emperor's existence has, for the last ten thousand years been one of pure agony and depridation. His consciousness has been shattered, he endures terrible burdens and every thought process and ability is focussed solely on allowing Mankind to endure as a species and stave of the worst depridations of Chaos. Not exactly an existence I would plan for.


I believe that the Emperor did not plan the Horus Heresy but always thought his primarchs would do such a thing. He would lead mankind to victory and this would lead to his godhood. (I am also open to the idea that he never intended to be a god, but thats the way things turned out.) 

The problem is that he ended up on the Golden Throne and now his conciousness is bound to this. He has no choice to stave off chaos and help mankind endure as a species. He needs the worshippers souls to feed his conciousness, otherwise it will be absorbed by the warp. He also needs his twisted religion to remain as it is, otherwise no one would worship him and so by default, he would have no souls to feed on.

The Emperor did not plan to end up like this, but by achieveing partial godhood, has no choice about doing anything else. In fact, like chaos gods, the longer he exsists this way, the more he reflects his worshippers and thirsts for them to continue their actions of war and repression, thus dooming mankind to continue in eternal war and be stuck in decline. The huge irony is that this is all that saves humanity from chaos.

Of course the above is very open to debate, but fluff on Thorians provides other interesting ideas on the nature of the emperors warp presence and how its tied to the corpse on the golden throne.


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