# Swooping Hawks Tactics Critique Request



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

I've been thinking about how to use swooping hawks in my games - I have far too much heavy support and not enough fast attack so I got to thinking how best to use them.

A five man squad led by an exarch with skyleap and a hawks talon is something like 140pts.

If I get first turn I place them as far forwards as possible, on a flank to mess with enemy scout moves as much as possible - vehicles won't come anywhere near them. So this gives 12" onto the table, 12" move, 7" (avr) charge so it's 31" threat range with the haywire grenades. So vehicles will either not scout move towards you or get into a defensible position (the whole point of this being to slow enemies down)
If there is a vehicle in range, charge anyway(they also have fleet)
If, on turn one, there is no chance of moving to attack a vehicle, they skyleap.
(assuming the initiative isn't siezed...)
If my opponant gets first turn, they stay in reserve.

Turn two - come back on a 3+ (2+ with an autarch)
Drop grenade (added bonus) - Use Hawks Talon (str 5 assault 3) on rear armour of vehicles. Whittle down vehicles with glances (you could fluke it and blow something up, but hopefully you might manage 1 or 2 glances)
Again this is trying to force the enemy to turn about face to deal with you - It's just to slow the enemy down.
if you also have deep striking spiders/outflanking scorpions/war walkers or anything fast (skimmers/jetbikes)then it's possible to support your attack and try for target saturation to reduce the threat of imminent death your hawks are probably now facing. 
Turn 3 - if they are still alive (probably not, but I'm optimisitic) HAYWIRE TIME!

I know this is a suicide squad, but I'd pay 140pts ish to delay the enemy army from closing with me till turn three - or at the very least force the enemy to advance where I want them to. 
If you've got Eldrad, you could also switch flanks with them. His redeployment move is before scout moves, but it does still mean you can mess with the enemy deployment - If you deploy one side with your hawks and your opponant puts all his tanks in place to advance down the other, then swap flanks 

Does this all work within the confines of the rules? 
Have I missed anything which scuppers this plan completely? 

I know it's not be the best plan in the world, for a unit that is at best over costed and poor, but I have 13+ Heavy support choices and only 4 fast attack...


----------



## stalarious (Aug 25, 2011)

I think it works I had a similar Idea when I picked up the eldar codex. however I thought about staring them in reserve and drop in then fly away and with the new rules I believe you can do it every turn?(please correct me if i am wrong I dont really play eldar still building my army first)


----------



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

You can do it every turn, but you don't get to use the haywire grenades against vehicles as you can't assault from a deep strike. Also if you start them in reserve, then you can't use them to scare enemy tanks into going somewhere else rather than straight at you


----------



## Platton725 (Apr 19, 2010)

Using Swooping Hawks in the manner above seems very inefficient, and I'm not sure it'll work the way you think it will, as they're a bit too fragile to actually hold stuff up. A 10 man tactical who rapid fires them will have a 50/50 chance of wiping them out altogether (1 or 2 might be left standing barring absolutely horrible rolls), and a good chance of killing the Exarch, which kills their skyleap. A 5-man combat squad who walks up, pumps 5 bolt pistols to the face and then assaults will probably kill them in CC over a few rounds. So, versus someone who knows what they're doing, you might hold up one unit, which probably isn't that important.

But test it on the battlefield, if it works in your gaming group, it works .

Swooping Hawks, if you disregard their points cost, is actually a pretty nifty unit, being able to jump 12" and shoot 24", with assault 2 AP5 guns. The S3 isn't so hot, but that's not the end of the world. Also a huge buff with the haywire grenades of 6th.

Now, I haven't really played anything with them in 6th, but in 5th I sometimes used a 6+1 unit with Sunrifle, and they were quite excellent in many battles. I almost never deep struck them, the Grenade(pie) is a lie....

Instead, using their extremely good mobility, you can position them so that not many weapons can be brought to bear versus them (behind LoS, or out of range for example) while shooting stuff. You can project a lot of antipersonnel fire in a quite big area. Playing them with a farseer was mandatory, as they benefit a lot from guide, and Doom is really the bread and butter when up against MEQ or monstrous creatures. This squad, when guided and shooting at a doomed target puts on average about 9,5 wounds before saves on T4 targets. They have multiple times in my games wiped out or pinned and then wiped out a Long Fang squad or combat squad in a key position by themselves.

So, as with all other Eldar units, I find they work best when in concert with the rest of your army, as you are all about synergy.

Of course, the weak points, as with practically all of the Eldar army, is that they are quite fragile and doesn't really cut it for their points when up against modern codices. I find them a very interesting and fun unit to use most of the time, but you will be let down when someone manages to drop a Battle-cannon/Whirlwind/Eradicator/OldLadyHandbag template on your 21p per model unit and wipe them all out in a torrent of eldary tears.


----------



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Platton725 said:


> A 10 man tactical who rapid fires them will have a 50/50 chance of wiping them out altogether (1 or 2 might be left standing barring absolutely horrible rolls), and a good chance of killing the Exarch, which kills their skyleap. A 5-man combat squad who walks up, pumps 5 bolt pistols to the face and then assaults will probably kill them in CC over a few rounds. So, versus someone who knows what they're doing, you might hold up one unit, which probably isn't that important.
> 
> but you will be let down when someone manages to drop a Battle-cannon/Whirlwind/Eradicator/OldLadyHandbag template on your 21p per model unit and wipe them all out in a torrent of eldary tears.


Left the bit in green cos I like the quote 

They way I'd got it was you don't get to shoot at them untill at least turn two 

My main problem with my eldar is self inflicted - I take a shooty army. This means I need to keep things away from me, cos assault is painful.
If you get first turn - put hawks as far forward as they can go.
So up to 36" onto a 48" board - Watch vehicles not come down that flank (as in scout moves. Realised I didn't make this clear in my first post. my last game was against Blood angels - scout moving Baal Predators make an absolute mess of my army - str6 ap3 ignore cover saves) . Then either charge or skyleap if I'm not in range - without giving them chance to be shot - ie on turn one.
My plan was to use them to slow down an advance through space denial - 
(Not to shoot or survive or anything else which would require delusions of grandeur - they're swooping hawks:sarcastichand - and after that, use them as a distraction. If you deep strike in behind someone's heavy support, you can get a couple of shots in at str 5 on rear armour. Then they have to deal with them as they have haywire grenades - so they'll hopefuly waste some of my opponants shooting. My main opponants are all MEQ (BA, DA, CSM, soon to be GK). 
I can shoot flashlights at them, they'll shoot back with bolters. 
End result = just as many space marines as there were before, no hawks left on the table.

The only other thing I'd do is put them out of sight on a flank and use them as a vehicle deterrant. Until someone shoots them.
This was just to check it's legal and I'd not missed anything - not if it's a good idea  (it isn't - unless in very specific circumstances)


----------



## Platton725 (Apr 19, 2010)

I think it's all legal, but I dunno, feels like 2 vypers @60pts (2xShuricannon) would do the same job or better, and be cheaper. 12 S6 shots is a bit better especially if you aim at the rear armor...


----------



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Vypers aren't much good against front armour unless they're expensive, I need something to deal with sm tanks (Rhinos/Razorbacks/Baal predators) before they get to my lines - so anything that'll slow them down is also good

In my normal list at the moment I'm running (normally do 2000-3000 points, 2 x FOC)

3 Wraithlords
10 Wraithguard
Wraithseer
2 x 7-8 squads of pathfinders
5 Dire avengers in WS
5 Fire Dragons in WS
2 fire prisms
Eldrad
Farseer
Phoenix lord/avatar/iyriel
Harlequins

It's a really static army and I don't like giving up my speed - but everything quick in my army seems to die amazingly quickly.
I was tempted to try deep striking warp spiders, out flanking war walkers and a min squad of hawks - using an autarch and have them all on turn 2 (hopefully)

I need 'something' to keep armies away from me - any suggestions would be welcome 

(I'm also going to buy a warp hunter - that'll help a bit )


----------



## Platton725 (Apr 19, 2010)

But Vypers are quite good versus SM Mech, because it's quite easy to get side armor shots, and S6 vs AV11 is just as good as S5 vs AV10. Also, you get on average more hits with 6 shots at BS3 than 3 shots at BS5.


----------



## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Gret79 said:


> You can do it every turn, but you don't get to use the haywire grenades against vehicles as you can't assault from a deep strike.


You don't need to assault you can just throw (shoot) them.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

The limiting factor is you can only throw 1 of them per unit.


----------



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

So I could have three shots with the exarch at str 5 and throw a haywire grenade?


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Yeah it's just a shooting attack really.


----------

