# Horus, Master of Mankind



## Tzeen Qhayshek (May 4, 2010)

Let us assume that on that fateful day at the climax of the Siege of the Emperor's Palace that Horus did not lower the shields on his battle barge, and merely waited for the news of the Emperor's death instead of watching it for himself (or whatever reason why he lowered the shield). If the last defenders of Earth were crushed beneath the weight of the Traitors, what would be the fate of Mankind?

In the 4th Ed Chaos Codex, it mentions Abaddon wishes to forge an empire if Chaos. What this entails eludes me, but I assume that Horus would have a similar goal. If that was the path after the Emperor was killed, what exactly would an empire of Chaos be? I am aware that the Traitor Primarchs were essentially pawned or tricked into their deeds, but was Chaos merely a conduit to destroy the Imperium?

The Horus Heresy is naturally an intriguing topic, and I was wondering what other people might thing.


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## Inquisitor Malaclypse (Dec 6, 2008)

i would think what would happen is that the Imperium of Chaos would rise in power drastically, but ultimately fail to kill/destroy all loyalist forces. Chaos would then "burn" itself out and eventually the galaxy (and thus Mankind) could then rebuild.

read Legion for more details on that it's a hell of a read.


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## Khargoth (Aug 5, 2010)

Chaos is ruination and decay. Horus would burn the Imperium to the ground to achieve his goal and rule whatever's left. There wouldn't be any major or coordinated rebuilding of an empire, just the scattered ashes of humanity left to the whims of the gods. And yet, as a son of Perturabo, I still think the Emperor deserves to die...


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Horus would have continued his decent into madness and taken the rest of mankind with him.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

The Galaxy would be a damn bad place to live in, and you would most probably find a Great Unclean one in your toilet, and a Keeper Of Secrets (That cant keep secrets...) stalking you... And then you would have the Lords Of Change spoiling you the next episode of every TV show... And a Damn Bloodthirster jumping on every one that is bleeding and shout Blood for the Blood god... So, kind of boring in my opinion...

- Doe out


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I think Abaddon have the dream of creating a empire of his own, but I dont think Chaos could endure are a unity without enemies like the Imperium. Unfortunately when the Imperium dies (and as the fluff shows it, it will sooner or later), Chaos will start picking on itself and warlords will turn upon each other to be the stronger. Then other aliens and robots will kill them as well.


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## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

The world would have turned against itself. I think should Horus have killed the emperor, Many more Legions would have begged for mercy and turned to chaos, after seeing their Lord killed. 

Thus making an unstoppable army, killing off all the other Armies and races, until eventually it's all chaos, when they'd all turn on themselves and leave nothing.


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## gauntsghost025 (Apr 9, 2009)

If the Big E was killed, who would sit on the golden throne and hold the tide of daemons from rushing out of the webway and devour Terra? Who would guide/project the Astronomican? Humanity would have another Old Night, but would never come out of it.


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## BrainFreeze (Oct 9, 2008)

Until the Necrons seal off the warp and the Universe wide cry of "FREE CANDY" is heard allowing the C'Tan to feast until content...


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Look how well Chaos is doing for itself in the Eye. I think the only things that ever make a profit out of Chaos are the Chaos gods themselves, and even that's shaky.


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Good question. What if Horus became MoM? I don't know. I'd go with the "he'd convert all the Space Marines and rape the entire universe" scenario. He certainly wouldn't bake cookies and tuck us into bed, though, that's for sure.


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## Helsreach (Jun 2, 2010)

I suppose you'd have to look at the Word Bearers descriptions of Sicarus. The Word Bearers would probably be tasked with turning the other planets to chaos and having millions of willing slaves and followers not simply a suppressed population kept in check by the Arbites and promises of damnation but such intense faith that sacrifice was the highest of honors.I think that it would be nicer than the Imperium but in a way we couldn't comprehend.

I also know the Lion was waiting to see who won and would turn to chaos. I assume that without the astronomican the other legions would be unable to attack and be stranded in the warp. From there the Tyranids, Necrons and so forth would likely be destroyed. The great crusade would continue except with daemons and the like.

However, if you read Legion you'll know that the last shreds of Lupercal would cause him to become regretful and bitter and lead him to destroy chaos through destroying humanity and his allies, feeding chaos until it consumes itself, making the warp a serene place once more.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

If the emp had been defeated we would have a warp rift in place of terra. A stable conduit to the warp. The whole sol system turned to chaos. The loyalist legions would have fought on but would ultimately be unable to win. And before anyone says' what about the other loyalist legions approaching terra' there would have been an unlimited supply of demons available as soon as malcador expires(once the emp is gone) and the golden throne is unnocupied. However I wonder what the alpha legion would do in this situation. I guess the Dark angels would be the 'Darker angels' though.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

i honestly believe that abbadon has his own agenda for mankind than the chaos gods invisionment. there is something that tells me he wants to rule mankind without the darkgods, the reason i think this is because he will not ascend to daemonhood when he could have.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Well from various sources we have some insight as to what would have happened if Horus had killed the Emperor on the fateful day.



Helsreach said:


> However, if you read Legion you'll know that the last shreds of Lupercal would cause him to become regretful and bitter and lead him to destroy chaos through destroying humanity and his allies, feeding chaos until it consumes itself, making the warp a serene place once more.


As _Helsreach_ says, the Xenos Cabal prophesied that if Horus triumphed over the Emperor, he would wipe out the Human Race in his guilt, even his closest allies would have warred against him in one final Chaotic apocalypse in which Humanity would become extinct and Chaos along with it. Take into account though that the Cabal were/are not infallible, and this wouldn't have necessarily happened.

Alongside this, _Codex: Chaos Daemons_ states that the Emperor is the only single entity preventing a complete Chaos victory, that he is shielding humanity from the worst depridations of Chaos, and without him humanity would by default be helpless before the dark temptations of Chaos and fall into its grasp. 

As well as that, the Imperial Webway would be unable to be sealed and Terra and the Sol System would be flooded with Daemons and any remnants of loyalist Imperials (although its unlikely there would be any, given that the vast majority if not all of humanity would have fallen to Chaos) would be unable to utilise Warp Travel without the Emperor's Astronomican.

So essentially, if Horus would have triumphed all of humanity would have fallen to Chaos and Horus would have ruled over the ashes of the Galaxy. Chaos would be ascendant and nothing would be able to challenge its dominance. 



forkmaster said:


> but I dont think Chaos could endure are a unity without enemies like the Imperium. Unfortunately when the Imperium dies (and as the fluff shows it, it will sooner or later), Chaos will start picking on itself and warlords will turn upon each other to be the stronger. Then other aliens and robots will kill them as well.


Remember that Chaos is its own enemy as well, the Great Game is the obvious example of this. Chaos constantly fights itself as it is, but that doesn't mean it is weak. Without the Emperor, Chaos would be utterly dominant of the Galaxy as well as the Warp, no threat like the Tyranids or Necrons would have been able to challenge a Galaxy dominated by Chaos.



5tonsledge said:


> i honestly believe that abbadon has his own agenda for mankind than the chaos gods invisionment. there is something that tells me he wants to rule mankind without the darkgods, the reason i think this is because he will not ascend to daemonhood when he could have.


The Chaos Astartes codex specifically states that Abaddon wishes to forge an Empire *of Chaos* over the ashes of the Imperium. He is too far enthralled to the Chaos Gods to ever stand a chance of ruling without them, even if he wanted to. 

The reason he hasn't ascended to Daemonhood is because firstly he is much more useful to the Chaos Gods as a mortal and thus able to constantly lead wars and incursions into the Imperium, which he wouldn't be able to do as easily as a Daemon Prince (thats assuming he hasn't actually been offered Daemonhood). Secondly is the option that Abaddon has rejected Daemonhood for himself, because he knows that as a Daemon not only would it be harder for him to manifest in the Material Universe, but he would likely lose his current purposes and hunger for revenge.


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## Turkeyspit (Jun 11, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> As _Helsreach_ says, the Xenos Cabal prophesied that if Horus triumphed over the Emperor, he would wipe out the Human Race in his guilt, even his closest allies would have warred against him in one final Chaotic apocalypse in which Humanity would become extinct and Chaos along with it. *Take into account though that the Cabal were/are not infallible, and this wouldn't have necessarily happened.*


I wanted to highlight this, because if memory serves, the Cabal presented only 2 options to Alpharius:

1 - Horus kills the Emperor, goes insane, and Choas implodes on itself in quick order.

2 - The Emperor kills Horus, and the Universe stagnates for millenia before Chaos overtakes it.

But what -really- happened was secret-option 3

3 - The Emperor kills Horus, but is himself incapacitated, and locked into the Golden Throne, leaving the Universe in the hands of the Council of Terra and the Ecclesiarchy.

So one has to question: is the current state of affairs in M41 better or worse than what would have happened if the Alpha Legion had remained loyal? 
(the Cabal inferred that Option 2 would result if Alpharius sided with Terra)


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Turkeyspit said:


> I wanted to highlight this, because if memory serves, the Cabal presented only 2 options to Alpharius:
> 
> 1 - Horus kills the Emperor, goes insane, and Choas implodes on itself in quick order.
> 
> ...


Actually no thats not quite correct. Your right in saying that the Cabal only revealed two possible outcomes to the Alpha Legion, them being:

1) As you said, Horus kills the Emperor and eventually takes down the Human Race and Chaos along with it.

2) The Emperor kills Horus, *but gives up his own 'life' in the process.* The Imperium will endure but will slowly and surely stagnate and Chaos will eventually triumph - (Bit in bold being what you missed out).

Essentially outcome number 2 actually occured (despite the Alpha Legion joining Horus).


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

The way I see it, the Chaos gods re greedy and are only trying to glorify themselves. The reason they involve themselves with humans is for them to worship them. I think that after Horus won, the chaos legions would expand with their own crusade. This would goes on for years, upon years, upon years, but I think that after a while, chaos will begin to close in on itself. The gods' legions and worshipers will fight each other and chaos and anarchy will break out.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Androxine Vortex said:


> The way I see it, the Chaos gods re greedy and are only trying to glorify themselves. The reason they involve themselves with humans is for them to worship them. I think that after Horus won, the chaos legions would expand with their own crusade. This would goes on for years, upon years, upon years, but I think that after a while, chaos will begin to close in on itself. The gods' legions and worshipers will fight each other and chaos and anarchy will break out.


It would have happened straight away. The main priority of the Chaos Gods the vast majority of the time is the Great Game of Chaos (the eternal war amongst themselves which can never end). The only reason the Chaos Gods became so active and involved in the events of the Material Universe during the Great Crusade was because the Emperor was a threat to them. Once the Emperor had been taken out of the equation (by Horus) then the Chaos Gods just simply resumed the Great Game, and became less interested in the affairs of mortals and the material universe, until a time arose again when the 'eternal flow of emotion across aeons' was threatened.

Essentially they are just protecting their own interests.


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## TraitorsHand (Sep 19, 2010)

Personally I think the Chaos Gods started it simply to remove an annoyance (the Emperor). They honestly dont care about the material realm, and it wasnt till the Emperor tried sapping their powers (by trying having humans go through webways instead) that the Chaos Gods took full note of him. Than with a few whispers and a bless here and there they pretty much destroyed that annoyance. So the Gods wouldnt care about this chaos empire, and would take as much notice as they do now (which isnt much). The factions and legions would battle eternally for dominance.. with Daemon Princes acting as planet leaders and I doubt there would ever be a "leader". well that's just my two cents.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

In _Legion_ I think this was covered well. If the Cabal were right, and I remember correctly, the whole point of the Alpha Legion betraying the Emperor would aid in killing him and thus bringing about the extinction of Humanity.

Assuming Horus won, the Cabal said he would be racked with grief at his Father's death and would turn against his brother primarchs. All the Traitor Legions turned to Chaos for their own reasons and there was no real _unity_ per say -- like most rebellions.

My belief is that if Horus had succeeded, then Humanity would have burned itself to ashes and the Galaxy would have been left to rebuild -- making the Eldar probably the dominate race ... again. Of coarse until the Tyranids came along ...

Although one could also say that if Alpha Legion had stayed loyal they could have been there to launch some kind of surprise attack on Horus and thus may have changed history -- saving the Emperor from being crippled and leading humanity to its Golden Age.

Of coarse, that leaves just as many questions to be answered.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

The Gods of Chaos would have continued their wars against each-other, and the loyalist forces would have eventually gained the upper hand... possibly in alliance with the Eldar.


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