# Competitive Ogres?



## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Okay, I'v seen alot of comments in the past about Orge Kingdom armies not being competative. I always disliked seeing this as they are one of my favourite fantasy armies. However, after looking over the list, I realised I missed something before. Skag the Slaughterer. He is the only way to get a slaughtermaster in at 2000 points, he is a beast in combat, is quite tough and can buff Gorgers. 
So I decided to throw together a Hypothetical list. It involved Skag, 2 Butchers for characters, to make the most of Gut Magic. 2 units each of Bulls(5 w/ extra hand weapon) and Ironguts(4), with only standard bearers. One Irongut unit got the Ragbanner to help a bit with panic. The rest of the list was 2 units of three leadbeltchers and 3 Gorgers.
The idea was simple, on turn one get as many regenerate/Toughness buffs as possible, and then try and get Skrag into combat. After one kill, and with the Toughness buff, he will be quite hard to kill, especially if you keep using bloodgreul. The Gorgers will show up turn 3 quite easily. After that its just trying to crush the opponent. 

I realise this list won't be competative to the extreme, like Chaos Warriors or Deamons, but hopefully will give some armies a run for their money.

Comments are welcome here, I want to see if we can give Orges *something* they can use to help in competative play.


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## FatBoyFat (Feb 23, 2009)

I played a few games with my mates ogre army, and I do look being different with tactics.. I know everyone say its a waste of points, but I had a unit of 12 ogres, that I just steam rollered up the middle! they took on all comers and didn't slow down, it was even better since your guarnteed to outnumber them and cause fear, and with impact damage as well.. I know its got weakness, but I kept some smaller units to cover the flanks, and it worked pretty damn well.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Ogres are always going to have troubles until they get a new army book - but you are right that it doesn't mean they can't be effective. As for Skragg... he's good, very good, but still, with him and a couple of butchers in at 2000 points? you'll have very few points to play with the main body of your army. Gorgers are excellent though, and can take on just about anything, and cause absolute havoc amongst low ld armies. 

I'd like to see how that army plays, you will still have a problem with heavy cavalry and the like mowing down your infantry blocks. The gorgers will at least give you a decent chance against gun lines.


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## Mutants_ho! (Jul 3, 2008)

I once saw a list with Skragg and !8! gorgers in it.
Suffice to say it decimated a good many armies before it went against a full knight bret army and lost. Skragg is good as he changes a list with little variation, giving it a little boost, but if you use him regularly you may find old friends reluctant to play against you .


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

Its not so much that Ogres are uncompetative more that to be truly competative you only concentrate on Ironguts and butchers which is dull.
Scragg is a good character but I dislike using gorgers as they are too easily negated although i expect this is less the case when there are more of them but I'm all for people trying out different OK lists I'm using an Ogre gunline at the moment with some success.


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## Gharof von Carstein (May 19, 2008)

ogres arent competitive. unless you use 2 bull rhinox riders (banned from most tourneys) and plenty of ironguts and butchers. than you could be in for a fun game. you will still probably lose a lot do...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Looks at the 2008 GB Grand Tournament Results -

Top Positioning: 4th
Average Positioning: 7th
VP's Total: 1st
Win %: 48%

Not competitive at all, apparently.

[/sarcasm]


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## Gharof von Carstein (May 19, 2008)

im just speaking from personal experience. i mean GT results are top generals. in the hands of a top general Ogres can be devastating. but be honest. have you ever faced ogres and lost?? i havent.


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## Vorag of Strigos (Feb 25, 2009)

I underestimated an Ogre Irongut regiment cause there were only 6 of them, but after they tore into my regiment of black knights (2 rows of 5) and killed 3 of them I instantly regretted it, they were also incredibly resiliant to cut down, despite my killing blow special rule.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Vaz said:


> Looks at the 2008 GB Grand Tournament Results -
> 
> Top Positioning: 4th
> Average Positioning: 7th
> ...


Where can I find GT results do you know? just wondering, thinking about taking a statistical look at that sort of thing  From the results I've seen before, they tend to have a scattering of players through the ranks, and usually a cluster of them on the bottom rungs. This is probably because they need a bit of finesse, so only damn good generals can get them near the top, and even then It's probably partly dependent on opponents army setup/army list and whatnot. Have seen an 8th, but a 4th is pretty good.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

The thing with tournament rankings is that they are unbalanced in favour of the more popular(easier to win with) armies That being said I know 2 really good competative OK generals who play in tournaments and they say a lot of their wins, while they are both exceptional generals, come down more to their opponents unfamiliarity with their ogre lists. 
Ogres are difficult to defeat when played by good Ogre generals and even lucky ones like me but large amounts of the list are not competative enough for its cost so to be competative is quite restrictive and dull.
The main reason Ogres seem so weak is because as 1 of the cheapest armies to collect and the nice models in the range it tends to attract a lot of new players but they often struggle to get the best out of them. In a way its similar to a woodelf army in the tactics are learnt over a longer period than a relatively simple army like Dwarves so you end up losing more than you win to start with.


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

neilbatte, that is perhaps the best explanation I have seen presented for the Ogres. Ever. I can agree wholly with everything you've just stated.

I can't begin to tell you how many times I thought my Sword Masters would stomp a unit of 4 Iron Guts, only to have my Sword Masters be butchered and run down in one turn.

On the flip side, that same player sent a unit of 6 bulls into my White Lions and Phoenix Guard. Very, very bad move. Still, he returned a decent amount of pain and the remainder of the Bulls lived to fight another day.

The Dwarfs I've faced were headed by a new general. The first time we sparred, he used a gunline army against my Elves. Ouch.
The second time, him and I worked together to take on a massive OnG army. He didn't know how best to supplement my Elves, who tried valiantly to hold his Castle formation. My few elves were spread too thin without their Dwarven allies as support and were moslty bypassed by faster units, missile fire and magic. Hence, his army took more casualties than mine, oddly enough.


I love Ogres, and I'd love to see their Army Book redone soon. They have the potential to be an absolutely amazing army.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

maddermax said:


> Where can I find GT results do you know? just wondering, thinking about taking a statistical look at that sort of thing  From the results I've seen before, they tend to have a scattering of players through the ranks, and usually a cluster of them on the bottom rungs. This is probably because they need a bit of finesse, so only damn good generals can get them near the top, and even then It's probably partly dependent on opponents army setup/army list and whatnot. Have seen an 8th, but a 4th is pretty good.


I'll ask my mate (who has them all saved) to e-mail the rest of them, then I'll host them


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## Apoctis (Feb 14, 2008)

I was thinking of ogers but then an experienced VP player told me they were easy to beat if you knew how. Plus they didn't look formal.


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

they are also easy to win _if you know how_-that is the challange of the "lesser races"-how to use them.


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