# Eldar or Dark Eldar



## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

Are Eldar or Dark Eldar better at CC tactics with a mech army like bikes and things like that

Ive heard Dark Eldar are but dont really know much about either army


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

The average DE is better at CC than a Guardian. 

Banshees/Scorps are arguably better than any DE but Incubi/Reavers in CC.

Talos don't count.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Unfortunately as we are so outdated, though when we came out we totally turned the meaning of CC on it's head and kicked the crap out of it, now yes we still pack a large punch but since we haven't had an update the Eldar have reach par with us in CC units - in saying this if it came about I had to choose banshees or wyches I'd take my wyches as we have 4+ invuls in CC and cost half as much as a banshee, the down side banshees unless fighting a DE archon with c drugs will pretty much 99% of the time strike first and have power weapons.


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## ItsPug (Apr 5, 2009)

Dark Eldar tend to be quite good in CC, their basic troops are better than guardians as mentioned above, but only the specialist CC troops in a DE army will be able to match a Eldar assault unit.

Hopefully that'll be fixed in the long awaited Codex.


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## Innsmouth (Mar 16, 2009)

Dark Eldar are pretty much CC oriented. You can also take Wyches as a troop choice in the second edition of the DE codex if you choose to take a wyche army. Wyches and a raider can pretty much do most jobs. I might be wrong but I think DE are more mobile than Eldar. If you have to deal with a lot of bikes and vehicles then you may want to consider this.


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## Innsmouth (Mar 16, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Talos don't count.


Why's that?


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## SpacedGhost (Dec 16, 2008)

The DE can still catch many people with their pants down with a 24" wych assault. They have some pretty solid guns with an assault profile too. They're currently hurting on account of being outdated though, and Eldar Banshees with the help of an Eldar Psyker just get obscene. Watching Banshees charge something after Doom has been cast can really suck for the unit receiving that charge.

I like DE, but they're at the top of the list of about 5 armies I feel NEED an update. It's kind of lame to watch my friend quit for two editions, come back, and still not have to buy a new codex. Either way I think the learning curve on both Eldar armies is a bit higher for players, and feel Eldar specifically have been one of the most consistent tournament armies since I can remember. Eldar pretty much have the total package. Psykers, assault, good weapons, solid base models, ways of becoming crazy resilient, and most importantly the entire 'dex seems to interact very well with itself. I don't count DE out of the running, but they've got a lot stacked against them and not as much going for them as some other armies.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Right now probably isn't a good time to start DE as they probably have a new book on the way, along with a new range of models. As such all your models would look dated and you would need new tactics pretty soon.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Innsmouth said:


> Why's that?


Because it competes with a Ravager for a limited HS slot. Ravagers are win, everything else in HS is fail as a result.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Yes until they fix scourge rules and points ravagers win hands down as they can deepstrike too if they want and shoot all their weapons if you arm them with Disintegrators


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Dark Eldar have more fire power than Eldar, this isnt a matter of opinion, its a fact.
So a good DE army will always outshoot a good eldar army.

DE are faster, and thus can react to attacks/re-deploy faster.

A standard Agoniser/Shadowfield/Splinter pistol Archon is probably the best HQ choice that isnt a Special Character you can get for its points. Add combat drugs and you'll give any HQ choice a run for its money, even Daemon Princes.

There is no reliable tactic against DE.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Isn't 'Always go first, or steal the initiative', a valid tactic?


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Yeh, but lets face it, DE do that better than anyone...


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Orochi said:


> Dark Eldar have more fire power than Eldar, this isnt a matter of opinion, its a fact.
> So a good DE army will always outshoot a good eldar army.


This is an interesting couple of statements.

Point one might be true. Dark eldar are able to take crazy numbers of dark lances with good BS on cheap platforms. Eldar can't match this.

However, it is not a given that they will always win a shooting match. Dark eldar specialise in armour 10 or 11 open-topped vehicles and t3/5+ troops standing on the ground. So they absolutely cannot take incoming fire. Eldar, with their better armour, fortuned cover saves and closed rather than open-topped tanks, are far tougher. 

Virtually any gun in the eldar arsenal can pop DE tanks, since their anti-personnel weapons (shuriken cannons and scatter lasers) easily have enough strength to blow up DE vehicles.



Orochi said:


> There is no reliable tactic against DE.


There are several. Dark eldar tend to use their extremely fast charge with wyches. It's predictable because they can't survive a shooting match so they have to come in. You can either stay out of range of it or place screening units to take the charges, and then counter attack with reserve units

For all their skill at taking out tanks, dark eldar hate attacking people in transports. They have to get out of their raider in the movement phase and can't be certain that the transport will die. If it doesn't, they are going to be hit by all kinds of nasty stuff and the squad will disappear.

As things stand I don't fear dark eldar much. It's an interesting exercise in defensive play that can be quite fun, but it's usually not too bad.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Why would they get out of the Raider? It's Open-Topped, so they can Shredder you from on board...


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Shows how little experience the DE generals you're playing have Someguy if they're relying on Wych charges 
Typical DE tactics will either be Raider Spam or Sniper Spam.

Wyches aren't high on anyones agenda, and DE players very rarely run them. 
I have NEVER used a mounted wych charge.

DE warriors have no need to leave there Raiders, and a good DE player will never move less than 12". Slowing only to maximise the damage (usually by 2-3 Raiders + cargo to unload on one target).

DE ground armies (warrior sniper spam) will (and should) stand behind a wall of Grotesques, who are completely immune to any weapon under S6. Eldar Ground troops do not have this level of firepower (bar maybe a few scatter lasers/shuriken cannons). Eldar tanks do not have the volume of fire availiable to say an Imperial Guard Chimeria with a multi-laser or a Marine Speeder with an assault cannon.

DE can field greater numbers/Have a better average range/better shot than the Eldar Guardian...their Equivilant. the Dire Avenger is considerably more expensive than the DE warrior, thus cannot be matched equally.

Transports are even easier to deal with than Main tanks. The unit inside, once its Transport is blown, will be slowed down considerably, thus unable to effectively combat DE. Here the fact DE do not need to leave their transports to fire makes the 'Drive by' with several raiders highly effective.

A wave serpent with its cheapest weapon comes in at the price of 2 raiders. The Raiders may not have the armour of a waveserpent, but it has a better default gun and BS. So a 'true' Raider army will often have i high number of transports.

I for example, in 1500 points, have 5 raiders and 3 ravagers. Thats 14 Dark lances.
Wave serpents/fire prisms cannot withstand repeated turns of that.

And finally, Eldar cannot stand up to a Reaver Scalpel attack, very few (if any) armies can. Eldar cannot rely on getting into CC, due to the DEs ability to rapidly redeploy.

However, as we all know, DE are due an overhaul soon, so Tactics will have to be completely re-done, if not a little bit.

Eldar have a much more visually pleasing model range right now aswell.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

DE Warriors are also superior to even Storm Guardians - as their WS is contingent upon a single model.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

15 DE warriors with all special weapons can and will easily out shoot and decimate an eldar guardian squad with the same point cost and will easily match up against a dire avengers squad within this same point range due to the fact that the above DE squad is 150 points and at 12" range has 8 splinter cannon shots 2 blaster (S8 Ap 2) shots and 22splinter rifle shots at a BS of 4.


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

Guardians could just sit back and blast away with the EML, the cover may help out but that works both ways. Taken from a supported stand point, I'd like to see what'd happen. Between the transports and what not (despite point costs). I'd say both sides may have their work cut out for them.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

An EML has not got the greatest of threats considering you have a lower BS meaning more scatter chance, Scatter laser is better against them, but how many players decide to armt here wraithlords and alll with scatter lasers and also how many players field swathes of guardians over the dire avengers


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Poor players, in my experience.

Although, how many players even own a DE army  ?


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