# 6th edition "powerful combinations"



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

hi guys, thought it would be interesting too see what people think are powerful combinations in 6th edition

these can either be within a single codex or by using allies

whatever you think works really really well and will make your opponent wince


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Orks and Necron is a new favorite combination of mine, not so much a combo as a very nice allied team. The Orks provide cheap bodies and klaws, and the Necron bring gauss shooting and flying transports. 

A fun combo (although it will probably be errata'd later) is to take Mad Doc Grotznik, and give Necron characters, Canoptek Spyders, and various necron elites a 5+ invulnerable save for only 5 points each.


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## Archaon18 (Feb 17, 2012)

Like Wraith units you can put them near a 'friendly' Psyker then they won't test for Wraithsight. Just because Eldar Pyskers are quite fragile.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm thinking some heavy psyched combos. Draigo Eldrad Mephiston Tigurious. Give them new powers or keep original.


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

Divination Psykers + Anything really.

The amount of Rerolls now possible for some armies is serious business. I've seen a x15 Death Company armed with Power Weapons and Fists Land every single blow and the follow up wounding was just as horrendous.


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## Terabyt3 (Jul 17, 2009)

I use a dirty jetbike seer council with fortune. Embolden allows re roll of failed psy tests 

Also Eldrad in the same army so two Runes of Warding meaning enemy psykers roll 4d6 on their tests!.


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## Lax (Jun 16, 2008)

It's a little sad to use a psyker for those reroll thought a chaplain gives them rerolls to hit and wound, that cannot be rerolled further.

Still in blood angels, I tried cobrulo+tycho+a unit  
With termies, that's real survivability.


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## CattleBruiser (Sep 3, 2011)

well there's the imp guard machine gun.

Another combo i've found that's really nice is farseers casting prescience on tau crisis suits.


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## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

I just thought I would push the boat out with a 5th ed style spam. 6 Manticores. Basically a troll against non-aircav builds, with the intention of wiping most of the opponents army t1


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

I like the idea of casting Invisibility on a large Death Company unit or Death Company Dreadnought. The only problem is that Blood Angel codex powers are pretty good and you can roll something worse.

There is, of course, the Eldar/Dark Eldar alliance and the many doors that opens. Fortuning or Guiding some DE units makes them nasty. And placing Vect with some Dire Avengers so they have Preferred Enemy when Bladestorming.

The Necrons have too many to mention them all. But I'm a fan of Zandrekh giving Night Vision to a Doomsday Ark, when that turn 1 Night Fighting is rolled. And Destroyer Lords with Tesla Immortals makes them quite feared.


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## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

Similar to that used in 5th - searchlight abuse. Best for t1 night fighting, and if anything easier in 6th because night fighting vision is set, not 2d6 based. Simply put weedy unit (like a basic sentinel scout with a searchlight or an empty chimera), which lights the way for bigger guns hidden in the dark, like manticores, russes and perhaps medusae. With the reduced likelihood of playing a kp game this is less situational, forcing your opponent to shoot at the weedy unit, probably swiftly killing it, and them dealing with the rest of my army under darkness.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Antonius said:


> I just thought I would push the boat out with a 5th ed style spam. 6 Manticores. Basically a troll against non-aircav builds, with the intention of wiping most of the opponents army t1


Don't forget a skyshield to give them all a 4+ invulnerable save! :biggrin:

Using the Eldar Fortune power on Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield terminators is also a lot of fun.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

mynameisgrax said:


> Using the Eldar Fortune power on Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield terminators is also a lot of fun.


If it worked, but it doesn't for a number of reasons.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> If it worked, but it doesn't for a number of reasons.


*re-reads ally rules*

Excuse me, I need to have a word with my Marine/Eldar playing friend.... :angry:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I can imagine Eldar and Tau can come up with something nasty - Eldrad allowing you to simply place your Broadsides to Line of Sight of an enemy unit, for example.


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## seermaster (Feb 22, 2012)

harliquins when charging through cover get a 2 up vs overwatch


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## crisissuitguy (Jan 8, 2010)

My new Nurgle list is soon to send people rage quitting. With allies I can take 45 gretchin and a big mek /w shokk attack gun in an Epidemius list. Because orks are Allies of convenience, theyre considered to be treated as enemies. Epidemius can Aura of Decay the Gretchin first turn and instantly put the Tally to its max, only because AoD isn't a template I can get away with it. So first turn every model that had feel no pain now saves on a 3+ and wound on 2's with shooting and close combat while ignoring saves. My cheap Nurgling bases can be a massive nuisance in combat, wounding on 2's and ignoring saves. Maximum trolling right there.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

crisissuitguy said:


> My new Nurgle list is soon to send people rage quitting. With allies I can take 45 gretchin and a big mek /w shokk attack gun in an Epidemius list. Because orks are Allies of convenience, theyre considered to be treated as enemies. Epidemius can Aura of Decay the Gretchin first turn and instantly put the Tally to its max, only because AoD isn't a template I can get away with it. So first turn every model that had feel no pain now saves on a 3+ and wound on 2's with shooting and close combat while ignoring saves. My cheap Nurgling bases can be a massive nuisance in combat, wounding on 2's and ignoring saves. Maximum trolling right there.


Jesus Christ, that's nasty. Can't see a reason it wouldn't work, either. It'll probably get errata'd soon though.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Actually, I double checked and Orks are desperate allies, so although the trick still works, there's a 1 in 6 chance that Epidemus will do nothing each turn.

You're probably better off allying Imperial Guard instead. Traitor guard are allies of convenience


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## crisissuitguy (Jan 8, 2010)

Well my list calls for 2 DP's of nurgle with Aura, so it shouldnt be a problem


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

crisissuitguy said:


> My new Nurgle list is soon to send people rage quitting. With allies I can take 45 gretchin and a big mek /w shokk attack gun in an Epidemius list. Because orks are Allies of convenience, theyre considered to be treated as enemies. Epidemius can Aura of Decay the Gretchin first turn and instantly put the Tally to its max, only because AoD isn't a template I can get away with it. So first turn every model that had feel no pain now saves on a 3+ and wound on 2's with shooting and close combat while ignoring saves. My cheap Nurgling bases can be a massive nuisance in combat, wounding on 2's and ignoring saves. Maximum trolling right there.


I don't want to start a whole new shit fight like the Epidimus thread so I'll say one thing and leave it at that.

Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon so it shoots. You're not allowed to shoot your Allies of Convenience.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Yea, you're right Magpie. On page 112, the second paragraph under Allies of Conveience has it bolded. You can't shoot your allies at all, template or otherwise. Blasts could scatter onto them but that's it.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Archon Dan said:


> Yea, you're right Magpie. On page 112, the second paragraph under Allies of Conveience has it bolded. You can't shoot your allies at all, template or otherwise. Blasts could scatter onto them but that's it.


Yep, that's one side of the coin. What if your AoC are next to epi who activates aura with enemies within 6' and it 'accidentally' hits your AoD? It's not a template, it effectes an area 6' around the daemon (a listed condition/exception). 

The whole thing is a mess. But if you sit epi back and fire off AoD with no enemies even on your side of the table just to eat your own AoD you're a shitpickle.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

mynameisgrax said:


> A fun combo (although it will probably be errata'd later) is to take Mad Doc Grotznik, and give Necron characters, Canoptek Spyders, and various necron elites a 5+ invulnerable save for only 5 points each.


I remember reading a thread in Dakka about this (but using Grotsnik's "ability" on IG, not Necrons). It got quite heated and very much into the parsing of the word "army".


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Ravner298 said:


> Yep, that's one side of the coin. What if your AoC are next to epi who activates aura with enemies within 6' and it 'accidentally' hits your AoD? It's not a template, it effectes an area 6' around the daemon (a listed condition/exception).
> 
> The whole thing is a mess. But if you sit epi back and fire off AoD with no enemies even on your side of the table just to eat your own AoD you're a shitpickle.


I can't see that as any different to firing a flamer template that hits your own guys. There is a conscious decision to fire it knowing full well the allies will be hit.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

why dosnt someone just email GW?


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Magpie_Oz said:


> I can't see that as any different to firing a flamer template that hits your own guys. There is a conscious decision to fire it knowing full well the allies will be hit.


Except the part where it's not a template, its an area. But as I said there's 2 sides to the coin, and since it doesnt affect me or the club I play in there's no point in hammering it out because there's an obvious divide here on the interpretation.

Also, emailing GW isn't exactly the end all be all of rules answers.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Magpie_Oz said:


> I can't see that as any different to firing a flamer template that hits your own guys.


It's not a template, that's why it's different, it's an ability which affects a given area. A noted exception in the Allies section.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

In the immortal battle between "the rules don't say you can do that" and "the rules don't say that you can't" I generally have to side with the latter. The rulebook includes exceptions to rules, so if this was an exception, they would've listed it. 

In a case like this, however, I have to agree with the latter even more strongly, simply because there isn't an adequate answer to the question: "then what happens?"

Specifically, what happens if both your allies and your opponent's models are within 6 inches? The 6th edition rules state that allies such as these are treated as enemies in all respects, only you can't target them with attacks. Aura of decay does not target, it just automatically hits all enemies within 6 inches. 

So you use it. Does it only affect your opponent's models? No, because your allies are treated like enemies. Does the presence of your allies forbid you from using it? No, because it's not a targeted effect, and there are no conditions in the rules where it wouldn't go off. You choose to use it, and then it resolves.

Aura of decay is a weird example. Until they errata it, I have to side with the argument that it does work, simply because there's no reason it wouldn't.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> It's not a template, that's why it's different, it's an ability which affects a given area. A noted exception in the Allies section.





> It's not a template, it effectes an area 6' around the daemon (a listed condition/exception).


Get me the president.

Well said, grax.

Im all honesty it's silly, I for one would be laughing to see my enemy investing 200ish points in epi/bubblewrap, and then another 200 points in orcs that he himself will be killing to make PLAGUEBEARERS his main killy unit. 

Gee oh golly whatever will we do to stop that onslaught.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Ravner298 said:


> Except the part where it's not a template, its an area.


It is a ranged weapon and stated to be so very clearly in the Codex on a number of occasions.

If you can "accidentally" shoot your AoC with a ranged weapon then you can "accidentally" shoot your AoC with a template.

Of course you can do neither.

If this is to fly it will need to be shown, from the rules, conclusively that, amongst other things, Aura of Decay is NOT a ranged weapon but is an "other ability".

But I think all of that has been covered elsewhere. best not to derail this thread with further circular argument.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

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## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

So that we all go back to the topic in question, i would say any of the Dual FOC spam builds will work horribly, given the 2HQ 4 troops restriction will satisfy the "1 troop per 500pts" advice i have seen given across the forum, and getting large access to powerful units (like 6 manticores, 18 vendettas, Vindicatorspam, MOTF Dread Spam etc etc). Kudos to anyone who has the wallet power to pull these spam lists off, but still.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

Antonius said:


> So that we all go back to the topic in question, i would say any of the Dual FOC spam builds will work horribly, given the 2HQ 4 troops restriction will satisfy the "1 troop per 500pts" advice i have seen given across the forum, and getting large access to powerful units (like 6 manticores, 18 vendettas, Vindicatorspam, MOTF Dread Spam etc etc). Kudos to anyone who has the wallet power to pull these spam lists off, but still.


Yeah, i think 'Ard Boyz is going to get a whole lot more 'Ard.

What chance do you possibly have against someone who fields 6 manticores out of line of sight? Unless you yourself bring 6 flying monstrous creatures or something.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

With multiple force org charts, I think it can and will be exploited for the 6 heavy support slots. It will of course vary from army to army, but just about every army has a unit in the elite/fast/heavy slot that's cheap, effective, and they'd love to have 4-6 of. (perhaps on a skyshield for 4+ invulnerable save and so it's difficult to assault them?)

Orks: 6 units of 3x Big Gunz Kannons

Vanilla Marines: 6 Thunderfire Cannons 

Space Wolves: 6 units of Longfangs

Grey Knights: Even MORE Psycannons

All other marines: 6 Vindicators

Sisters: 6 Exorcists

Imperial Guard: 6 Manticores

Tyranids/Necron/Chaos Daemons: all the monstrous creatures you'd ever want


(Okay, the Eldar armies get kinda gypped, but let's face it: 'screwing over Eldar & Dark Eldar' has more or less been the theme of 6th edition)


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Iron_Freak220 said:


> Yeah, i think 'Ard Boyz is going to get a whole lot more 'Ard.
> 
> What chance do you possibly have against someone who fields 6 manticores out of line of sight? Unless you yourself bring 6 flying monstrous creatures or something.


How can a dead tournament get any harder?

It's no longer Ard Boyz, anyway, ETC lists and heavily comped armies are where its at these days.


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## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

mynameisgrax said:


> With multiple force org charts, I think it can and will be exploited for the 6 heavy support slots. It will of course vary from army to army, but just about every army has a unit in the elite/fast/heavy slot that's cheap, effective, and they'd love to have 4-6 of. (perhaps on a skyshield for 4+ invulnerable save and so it's difficult to assault them?)
> 
> Orks: 6 units of 3x Big Gunz Kannons
> 
> ...


Fixed that for you.

Though Spyders are really cheap for what they do. Not to mention they come in units up to 3...

Red text is for mods editing your post...like this -G


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Eldar dual FoC ally Fire Prisms annoys me.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Oh come on, Necron get 'flyers everywhere' even without the second FOC. They're dedicated transports and 100 a pop.

I like the idea of 18 MC Spyders crawling over the board. ^_^

I didn't think of the fire prism combo. Not sure how feasible that is though. We'll have to see.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

What, no 18 leman russes?

I'm tempted to see what a BA army with 4 assault squads and 6 3-man multimelta assault bike squads would look like on the field.
Maybe a pair of Div librarians on bikes to lead them.

hummm...you can just about fit 2 biker epislatories, 4 5-man assault squads, 6 2-man attack bikes (or 4 3-man), 3 biker priests and 2 jump pack ones into 2k points...but the end result looks pretty fragile.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

Let's not forget 18 obliterators


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## Herr-Flick (Nov 13, 2009)

Annyone else thought of sticking a big mek with a shock attack gun in a unit of big guns (pref lobba for the range) with a max amount of t7 grots (total of 12 and a runtherd)
As long as the guns are intact the whole unit counts as t7 

This unit gives your big mek one hell of a lot of staying power if you can keep your enemy from assoulting it


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Eldar and Dark Eldar anyone?

use Eldar Fortune power on any Dark Eldar Char with SF giving a 2+ inv save with rerolls and throw that char in a unit with high T and put him at the fount so every shot has to hit him .


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Shieldbreaker GK's. Also, you can just challenge that character out of the fight.

Lastly, IIRC, it only affects Eldar, not Dark Eldar - I've tried to pull the whole Dark Eldar are still Dark Eldar.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Not to thread derail this in to rules debate. The whole eldar/dark eldar thing, I let slide until it get's FAQ (I don't have/play either).

sure if he took a Fortune-Doom-Shadowfield-Poweraxe Archon it would be annoying but still cool. (also their are ways to counter this such as SB shot from a vindi)


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Pedro Cantor + The Sanguinor + assault type unit. Units get pretty scary when they get +2 attacks.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

Herr-Flick said:


> Annyone else thought of sticking a big mek with a shock attack gun in a unit of big guns (pref lobba for the range) with a max amount of t7 grots (total of 12 and a runtherd)
> As long as the guns are intact the whole unit counts as t7
> 
> This unit gives your big mek one hell of a lot of staying power if you can keep your enemy from assoulting it


*_Raises hand_.*

Sort of. I don't attach the Big Mek. (And last game that was a good idea since I rolled doubles and had a mishap--a large blast template centered on the Big Mek mishap.)

I really love the lobbas since night-fighting doesn't screw them up like the other types. And pre-measuring means I no longer have to guess range. :biggrin:

Thing is, I've killed more with a Lobba barrage than I have with a SAG. Don't get me wrong, I love the randomness of the SAG, but I don't want to jeopardize a unit that is consistent (and which my opponents usually leave alone since they're targeting the SAG) and not prone to mishap.


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## Masonicon (Dec 3, 2011)

how about combination between every 40k races that aren't Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle against Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle(IG got no Psykers, Abhumans, and Techpriests while SoB can't uses Acts of Faith. both of them are restricted to Regular Humans)?


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

sybarite said:


> Not to thread derail this in to rules debate. The whole eldar/dark eldar thing, I let slide until it get's FAQ (I don't have/play either).
> 
> sure if he took a Fortune-Doom-Shadowfield-Poweraxe Archon it would be annoying but still cool. (also their are ways to counter this such as SB shot from a vindi)


I'm basing my guess on the Hatred rule, if you have Hatred (Eldar) then you only Hate things from Codex : Eldar, you don't hate Dark Eldar. I would guess that Preferred Enemy (Eldar) doesn't also give you Preferred Enemy (Dark Eldar) by default. In that sense fortune can only affect Eldar not Dark Eldar.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> I'm basing my guess on the Hatred rule, if you have Hatred (Eldar) then you only Hate things from Codex : Eldar, you don't hate Dark Eldar. I would guess that Preferred Enemy (Eldar) doesn't also give you Preferred Enemy (Dark Eldar) by default. In that sense fortune can only affect Eldar not Dark Eldar.


Sounds right.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

> how about combination between every 40k races that aren't Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle against Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle(IG got no Psykers, Abhumans, and Techpriests while SoB can't uses Acts of Faith. both of them are restricted to Regular Humans)?


So confused with this. Are you saying Guard and Sisters are a bad combination?


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

asianavatar said:


> So confused with this. Are you saying Guard and Sisters are a bad combination?


I'm not exactly sure what he meant, but I'll go on the record as saying that "Guard" + "_____" is never a bad combination. They're too versatile and cheap to ever really be ineffective.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

So anyway, I have finally gotten around to contemplating allies (read: mixing my BA with my Eldar) and have come up with this random list of stuff:

*Universal Special Rules shared by units with ICs*

Acute Senses, Adamantium Will, ATSKNF, Crusader, Fearless, Hit and Run, Infiltrate (IC confers to unit, but not vice versa, Dedicated Transports gain it), Monster Hunter, Move Through Cover, Night Vision, Outflank, Preferred Enemy, Scout (Dedicated transports gain it), Shrouded, Skilled Rider, Slow and Purposeful, Stealth, Stubborn, Tank Hunters, Zealot.

Independent Characters may join units from allied detachments if you are Battle Brothers, and confer all of the special rules above.

Al-Rahem plus a Space Wolf IC of your choice added to a PW blob squad. Your Outflanking Platoon now rerolls the board edge it arrives from and has ATSKNF.

Rough Riders with Mogul Kamir now get 10 Fearless Cavalry who strike at I5 with S5 Power Weapons with 3 attacks apiece on their first charge. For 145pts.

IG Priests added to any melee unit to give them rerolls to hit (i.e. mini-chaplain).

TH/SS Terminators with Shrike and a Crisis Commander with Hit and Run upgrade. Infiltrating, Fleet, Hit and Run Hammernators. Take that, bitches.

Add an IC of your choice to Wolf Scouts to have them enter from the enemy long table edge (with a reroll, lol).

Add a Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Saga of the Hunter to your IG blob squad to benefit from Stealth, ATSKNF and to have someone who can actually fight worth a damn for a mere 80pts.

More as I think of them...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Sorry to put the kibosh on it - but A Hunting Lance strikes at S5 and I5. Furious Charge has no effect on it, like it has no effect on a Relic Blade, being a set value modifier.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

So what is the point of the upgrade character having it and conferring it to the squad? Seems a little... pointless... even by GW rules writing standards.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Be fair, It was written by fuckface, I mean, cruddace.

However, the Hunting Lance is a once per battle (first charge only) item, after which their other charges are affected by FC for s4 ap- assaults.

If Im honest, being Cavalry, lack


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I thought they got it in the first round of every assault (I don't play Guard and have never seen them used on the table).

Fuck that noise then.


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

I don't know how well Counter Attack gets conferred. I don't have my book at hand, but I think it limits who it effects further down the rule. I'll check that in the morning.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Ah, you're right, missed that on first read-through. Damn. I was just scanning for "If a unit contains at least one model with..."


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Styro-J said:


> I don't know how well Counter Attack gets conferred. I don't have my book at hand, but I think it limits who it effects further down the rule. I'll check that in the morning.


It's a bit odd. It starts with the usual "unit containing at least one model" but it requires a leadership test and if passed, units with the counter attack rule get the +1 attack.

So really the model has to already have counter attack

Edit - sigh - Ninja'ed


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I think it was phrased that way to avoid questions like "So, is it only models with the rule that test? Do they use their native leadership or can they use the highest Ld in the squad, even if that model doesn't have the rule?" Etc etc.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Sounds fair, I reckon that might be it.


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