# Anti-Tau Tactical Discussion



## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

In order to continue this discussion without the continued derailment of another persons thread (for which I appologize sincerely) I started this new thread. 

My basic tactic against all Tau lists is to kite them at extreem range, ie. outside of the maximum range of their massed firepower, 30 inches. While the Tau do have guns that can lay down plenty of fire at longer ranges, they cannot create the sort of casualties they need to at ranges longer than 30 inches, with the exception of the Hammerhead submunition round.

Many Tau players attempt a Mechanized list that counters this disatvantage but also leaves them vulnerable to assaults if the defender can cover his firebase with fast moving assault troops. In the previous thread, I was informed that Fish of Fury will never fail if performed correctly, I must humbly disagree with this statement until it is explained to me exactly how a "properly supported" fish of fury tactic is performed. I have seen the tactic used before myself on many occasions and have never had a problem countering it with either Space Marines or Orks. This either means that it has never been performed properly by any Tau player I have ever faced, or it can indeed be countered.


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## Tahaal (Dec 22, 2006)

In order to know how to counter Tau, you must know Tau. So, I will play the role of Tau-supporter so that we can come up with better ways to defeat the blue-skins.

So, to pull off this "perfect" FoF, the tau player must understand that there is something that can counter-attack him. Now, it could be possible to have enough fast counter-assault units to keep any smart Tau player from even attempting such a tactic. However, that could just be an excuse for them to hide and only use their long-range firepower. You don't have to kill the entire enemy force to win, you just have to kill more.

Now, for the example of using a trukk of boyz as a counter attack, this would be easily counted, because a trukk is AV10 and open-topped, correct? With basic weapons of S5, they could easily destroy this threat. The FWs could jump up, shoot some orks, while a stealth squad/crisis squad could fire at the trukk. And there is no reason why the FWs should be alone. Only an idiot would try to send in FWs without some support tailing them.

For Jump infantry (like assault squads and whatever the ork ones are called) you just have to avoid them, or FoF them. It is entirely possible to hit them, unless they are hanging out in the middle of the enemy force. Then you can easily avoid them (easily for an expierenced player).



The best counter to FoF has nothing to do with hitting the squad. It has everything to do with hitting the transport. While tough vehicles (good armor, skimmers, no death on immobilized), under enough pressure they will fall. But no expierenced Tau player will leave it in the open for long. 

Kiting is possible, but you can only fall back so far. My concer would be that despite not have many 31"+ weapons, their's are alot better. And they can move into the 30", hanging out in cover. In a pure shootout, Tau have an upperhand.


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## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

This is where things tend to get sticky in tactical discussions, the "What if" factor. Orks are notorious for lacking reliable tank hunting squads and so destroying the transports become quite difficult. You cannot kite the whole game, but even a few rounds of massed Bigshoota fire that gets very little response from the Tau can tip the game balance. Of course Mission plays a huge part in how and what can be done tactically as well. 

As an Ork player, I would never let a crisis team or stealth suits get close enough to blow the Trukk apart. It becomes a whole cat and mouse manuvering game that has to be played out by individual players and will only be decided on the table top. There is no tactic that will win in every situation, but generally speaking I have found kiting the Tau to be extremly efffective, even if they are Mechanized and attempt to use FoF. 

If the Tau player tries to simply hide and use his longest range fire power, such as his hammer head to eek out a win at extrem long range, it will open up the table for the Ork player to move almost at will. It is always tactically advantageous to force your opponent to act in a predictable fashion. Tau players, and players in general expect the typical Ork army to run screaming in a giant horde across the tabletop. Few Tau players have even an inkling of what to do when this does not happen. All of their carefully planned Kroot counter assaults are suddenly caught out of position. Most of their firepower is still out of range on turn three, which is a case most Tau do not face. Suddenly their static elements end up playing no or little part in the battle, while their mobile elements find themselves out numbered or hiding. Each of these things are tactically advantageous for the Ork player.

I will say that the way I play my orks can be countered by any army played by any good general who is prepared for it and I will never claim that any tactic is undefeatable. What I can claim is that this tactic has worked well for me in every battle I have ever had against the Tau. I can't know that my tactic is only successful against the tactically stunted until a Tau player successfully counters it. Since so far, none have, I am left thinking the tactic is indeed effective. I am not trying to sound superior, I am simply trying to explain my experiences as frankly as I can. 

My tactics rely on the contents of my army list as well, which does not contain hordes of boyz but rather highly specialized squads that do specific things. I can hang in a shootout with almost any army due to fielding 22 bigshootas, 5 of which are twin linked. That adds up to 66 str 5 shots 15 of which can be rerolled. In addition, I field 11 shootas that are designed to be the equivilent of str 5 storm bolters that are ap 3 within 12 inches. All of these guns are assault weapons to boot, allowing me to lay down this volley of firepower without the loss of any mobility.

I greatly appreciate your responses and hope I have explained myself to your satisfaction.


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## =DAEMON= (Dec 30, 2006)

The problem with this is that you rely on knowing your opponent before hand, thus you need to prepare a list sutible to this tactic, which would not work with a generic ork list, which lacks the shooting power of yours. Futher more, normal Tau players would not find it hard, esspecily using fish, to close the gap _if _ they take the inititive. 

Once in range they will proceed to maul you. Even weakened their FW are more than a match for shootas. Any CC units you send in will more than likely be taken down by FW etc. as they close in.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

The thing tau suffer too the most IMO is fast assault elements that they struggle to get to grips with. This also includes infiltrating assault units. One infiltrating Chaos lieutenant can spoil the day for a Tau army, let alone and army that contains many such units. Hormaguants that can emege from cover and charge in the same turn, units that charge out of transports. etc...


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## Relapse (Jan 2, 2007)

I agree with Jig.

I have recently played against Tau with a Wych army and just went in with a full speed ahead, run in the raiders and charge approach. There wasn't a lot the Tau player could do as Wyches swarmed his units and cut them down in HtH.
The only thing his Hammerheads and snipers really had to shoot at were raiders that had already dumped their squads into the midst of his army.
The thing that really killed him was the fact that the Wych weapons cut his ws in half, and when you're starting with a ws of 2, that ain't good.
Add the fact that half the Wych squads had their ws increased to 5 because of drugs and things get really nasty.


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## =DAEMON= (Dec 30, 2006)

But that is their army list. A normal list should take enough AT power to deal with that. How much did he have?


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

You don't need anti-tank weapons to fight Dark Eldar for the most part. Maybe a lascannon somewhere to hurt a Talos that's wandering around, but the Raiders can go down to bolter fire. I'm sure there was enough anti-armor in the army for any other opponent, though. The Tau certainly aren't lacking in that department.


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## Relapse (Jan 2, 2007)

Every weapon he had in the army, grunt weapons included was able to kill my raiders. I just used terrain and initial close combats to mask my second wave approach. The first wave just gunned in and went on a butt kicking spree.
I lost a couple raiders to smart missles before they got close enough to drop troops off, but the survivors of those vehicles were in the fight two rounds later, after they disentangled from the wrecks.
The wych army's main strong points against Tau are webways, speed and the fact they can attack out of raiders. In a cityfight game, they are one of the nastiest armies to go against.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

The concept of trying to outrange Tau is frankly absurd.

Stay out of range of their mighty 30" Pulse Rifles? Wow, you've neutralised the 6 Fire Warriors you'll see.

Mech Tau (is there any other kind?) is a very tough nut to crack- not only do they benefit from the best Skimmer Tanks which make ground tanks seem like a sick joke, they also get Jump Shoot Jump so are trying to play 2nd Ed.

So staying out of range is impossible, and outshooting them will be difficult.

I propose the opposite- you need to get in as close as possible, fast. Rather than giving them free reign to reposition and manoeuver- close with them forcing them to squirm out of the way.

The average Mech Tau list is:

Shas'el- Fireknife.
Shas'el- Fireknife.

Stealths- 4
Crisis- 2xFireknife. 2xShield drone.
Crisis- 2xFireknife. 2xShield drone.

Fire Warriors- 6x
Kroot- 10x
Kroot- 10x

Railhead
Railhead
Railhead

1500pts

For all my bravado- I have had very little success against Mech Tau.
Basically- Mech Tau>>Space Marines in the Rock/Paper/Scissors department. Just have to learn to accept this and be thankful if you pull out a draw.


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## =DAEMON= (Dec 30, 2006)

No, I disagree. Just because _you_ can't beat an army does not make them unbeatable.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

i dont think anyone said that. Did they?


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

My tactic when I play my tau using friend is make him take leadership test because he's really unlucky with leadership, its only him failing Ld tests that make me win like the last time I battled him he shot my combat units to bits but I was able to do enough damage to force a Ld tests which basically won me the game.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

But how against the above Mech List?

Railheads are fearless.
Stealths are invisible.
Crisis are hiding.
Shas'o are untargetable.
Kroot are in hard cover and nobody cares if they or the FW run away.



> No, I disagree. Just because you can't beat an army does not make them unbeatable.


I love these statements- so much confidence, yet absolutely no advice or constructive help given, no surprise there.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

Jeridian said:


> But how against the above Mech List?
> 
> Railheads are fearless.
> Stealths are invisible.
> ...


I maybe be becoming blind but I can't see it, what army do you use against the Tau?

If space marine deepstrike terminators and shoot the crap out of them and then charge or land raider rush with lightening clawed terminators it it.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

The 'toughest' army I would bring is my GT SM army.

Master- Bolt pistol, power sword, combat shield, frags, Infiltrate.
-Command Squad- 8x B.p, ccw. 2xMeltagun. Vet.Sgt- Power fist. Infiltrate.

Dreadnought- Assault cannon, power fist, extra armour.
-Drop Pod

Tactical Squad- 8x 2xPlasma. Vet.Sgt- Power fist. Infiltrate
Tactical Squad- 8x 2xPlasma. Vet.Sgt- Power fist. Infiltrate
Tactical Squad- 6x 1xPlasma. 1xLascannon.
Tactical Squad- 6x 1xPlasma. 1xLascannon.

Tornado
Tornado

Predator- Twin-lascannon, heavy bolters, smoke.
Predator- Twin-lascannon, heavy bolters, smoke.

Total 1500pts



> If space marine deepstrike terminators and shoot the crap out of them and then charge or land raider rush with lightening clawed terminators it it.


Terminators are a tough nut for Tau to crack, but then that would require tailoring to beat the army- which kind of proves my point Mech Tau >> SM's. The Tau army doesn't have to tailor to beat me.

Land Raider? Seriously, even against a 'normal' enemy it is a turn 1 VP prize, but against 3 Railheads?
Lightning claw termies- charge what? The Kroot or the FW's- either of which is barely half their cost, and is designed to be expendable.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

Jeridian said:


> Mech Tau (is there any other kind?).


I field 50 fire warriors, five crisis and two broadsides with an ethereal believe it or not. But like most fluffy armies they regularly get their arses handed to them.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

> But like most fluffy armies they regularly get their arses handed to them.


 :wink:


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> Mech Tau (is there any other kind?)


Yes, Hybrid Tau.

This is what I field and it is a very tough army for the most part. However, the thread was how to BEAT Tau, so to answer the question:

Hand to Hand. It is the single, guaranteed way to win vs Tau. Tau may have good shooting and mobility but a cunning player will always be able to bring the Tau into H2H combat at which point the Tau army folds like laundry. Even a Mech Tau list is succeptible to this as the Stealths and Crisis suits can be charged. I am not saying it is easy but once done, the Tau player usually needs to be either very lucky or able to play 3 turns in advance to counter it.

Again, close combat is the single biggest weakness in the Tau list. Leadership is a close second and forcing Morale checks is the second best tactic. But mainly, go for the charge. Even a Mech Tau list CAN'T kill enough of your army to stop everything coming its way, provided you have enough bodies.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

Agreed, absolutely. Tau in combat is a good thing.

But, especially with a Mech Tau list, this depends on the Tau player making a mistake- leaving a Crisis unit in charge range, not gunning down that combat squad, etc.

I don't like depending on my opponent making mistakes to win a game.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

For sure. Against Mech Tau, the transports are the key. Once they are down, there are a whole lot of models, usually Entangled, waiting to be charged. Railheads are a nasty target too but taking out the transports to get to the gooey insides is a bit more important. Speaking as a Tau player anyway.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

Thanks, but the list I give above is a 'Mech Tau' list, or a Hybrid list, or Armoured list. Whatever you want to call it, it is *the* Tau army list if you want to do well at UKGT's, any tournament level, etc.

And as you can see there are no transports- and very few squishy bodies.

Kroot are cheap and expendable- you will often have to send in a lot more expensive troops to root them out of cover.

Fire Warriors- there's 6. Who cares if they die, not the Tau player for sure.

Crisis- should be keeping to the 24" range, JSJ out of LOS and combat range.

Stealths- a little more tricky as they must stay slightly closer- but the Night Fight shield helps.

Shas'el's- as Crisis.

Railheads- they're as hard to take down in combat, as with shooting.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Jeridian said:


> Thanks, but the list I give above is a 'Mech Tau' list, or a Hybrid list, or Armoured list. Whatever you want to call it, it is *the* Tau army list if you want to do well at UKGT's, any tournament level, etc.


I disagree, there is actually a reasonable amount of variantion between tau lists at the GT's, some mech, some suit based, some hybrid. Ive seen ones with 5 kroot squads do well[last year in fact] and ones with 6x6 firewarrior squads as well. Most armies get a similar feel to them, and you look and think they are all pretty similar but when you look closely you see quite a few differences some subtle and some more extreme.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

What would be in a 'typical' mech tau list?


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Check Jeridian's reply on page 1 of this thread. He lays out a basic, and very typical, 1500pt Mech Tau list.


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## Deadman_Ian (Jan 6, 2007)

You need to have a bunch of infeltreters/deep strikers to get in cc with the fire warriors an other infantry and some powerful antitank for the hammerheads. If they have a hoard of kroot try not to fire all your weapons at them because that'll draw your fire off their fire warriors then they WILL mow you down.


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## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

I've been away a few days and just got back to take a look at the thread. The absurdity of outshooting Tau sounds like a pipedream, but in my own experience (which is all I have to draw from) it works.

I realize that a "typical" ork army cannot outshoot the Tau. A typical ork army can't outshoot anyone. A typical ork army relies on a horde of naked orks screaming across the board. That's why I use a list that is anything but typical. I imagine that's why I have never suffered from the particular ills that plague most Ork players. My "shooty" ork list is not one I use against one army or another, but is my all purpose list. I don't build lists that are tailor made to beat any specific anyone, I have just found that my list works particularly well against Tau. I would recomend a shooty Ork list to any ork player regardless of who or what he was facing.

Without posting my whole army list, I will sum it up as a list that relies on shooting and fast assault elements in the form of Trukks and a battlewagon.Since I cannot possibly prove that my tactic works without having each of you here to play against and show exactly what I do, you can assume one of three things: 

1) Every Tau player I've played against does not know what he's doing.

2) I am a liar with nothing better to do than troll 40k boards with absurd tactics for no other reason than to be a jerk.

3) The tactic works when used by a knowledgeable general.

Basically, I start my army in cover at about 36 inch range where possible. Most cover offers a 4+ or 5+ save, allowing me to take a great number of casualties before I ever have to lose a single bigshoota or rokkit. As the enemy advances to try and bring his guns in range, I back off slightly, while keeping to cover, to keep them at arms length. The fast assault units of my army remain in a forward position but out of LOS. If the enemy tries to close the distance again, this will often put them in assault range by the fast assault units, meaning they will be crushed in CC if they advance or be subjected to long range fire if they don't. 

If the enemy is fast, in the case of mechanized troop carriers, they will close quickly and lay down a hailstorm of fire once they disembark. However, they will not only have to come within assault range of the fast assault units but also subject their transports to a fullisade of rokkits which is likely to destroy, or at least stun them, which steals away their mobility and leaves them stranded close to an Ork horde.

If the troop carriers try to wait until my fast assault units in the Trukks are destroyed to advance, I will make a cat and mouse game with the stealthsuits (they are likely to be the unit chosen to go after my trukks that are in hiding). I will do my utmost to keep teh trukks close enough to support the boyz on foot but also out of reach of the stealthsuits, which is not hard considering teh trukks are fast and the range of stealthsuits is limited. If the Tau player elects to use Pirahnas to go after my Trukks, the Bigsoota fire will almost invariably destroy them before they ever get the chance. 

If the enemy army is Tank heavy, such as the three Railhead scenario, I rely on massed rokkit shots and a fast, powerklaw heavy assault squad to deal with them. If the enemy concentrates fire on the megaarmored unit rearing to tear apart his tanks, he is going to take quite some time to bring them down and thus leaves the rest of my army open to do what they like. Granted it is hard to hit Skimmers in CC, but 36+ str 8 to 10 attacks are likely to yield 6 hits, which are likely to yield a destroyed vehicle. 

CC is the single best way to beat Tau, but you have to have a plan to bring them in close enough to assault. The idea that "enogh bodies" will get you into CC seems like a failed idea to me, since that is the primary gripe of Ork players, their boyz never see CC because they get shot to death first. To assault Tau you have to contain their mobility. To contain them you have to surround them. To surround them you have to draw them towards you. To do that you have to out range them. Don't chase them, they are faster than you, make them chase you.

What makes most static firepower armies weak is a well corordinated assault on part of the army or the ability to outrange them. In the case of my orks, they are naturally great in the assault (I use slugga boyz to carry the rokkits and Bigshootas) and have massed firepower at range.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Warboss Dakka said:


> 2) I am a liar with nothing better to do than troll 40k boards with absurd tactics for no other reason than to be a jerk.


Priceless.


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## HavenDan (Jan 6, 2007)

First off to say, Warboss Dakka... you are awesome! You play Orks like a real man! 

To beat Tau i use a similar tactic except more mechanized. I use a "Dakka Wagon" with Huntas in it (BS3 Orks) which wipe out fire warriors like no other. 

I also use a horde of 80 screaming angry Madboyz (I play Snakebites) and also run Rokkit Buggies up the flanks. I also have a Leman Russ shelling the enemy and a Big Mek using his KFF on both the Battlewagon and Leman Russ. 

Using three threats (the buggies, the gibbering horde of madboyz and the two heavy vehicles) I force the enemy to reposition to get out of the way of the Leman Russ and Battlewagon, leaving them vunerable to the buggies and the madboyz (who usually never see combat but o well) Most shooty armies in general tend to shoot at the boyz who usually get reduced to a smoldering hulk but im okay with that because if they shoot the boyz they ignore my other two threats. A good tactic is also using the buggies to screen the boyz and let them shoot the buggies. Either or they can't deal with all three threats.

Therefore, all of my useless Ork rabbeling amounts to to beat Tau you just need to overwhelm them and give them to many threats to handle. Mabye instead of a 15 man assault squad have 2 8 man assault squads so they have to split their fire. Don't make any target to big but not to small either. That's how you deal with Tau.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

It's a neat trick to overwhelm Tau with sheer numbers of targets when your basic trooper is 15 points base.


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## HavenDan (Jan 6, 2007)

...was that supposed to mock me? You'd be suprised about how many marines you can get if you don't go for the extra stuff. Anything with heavy bolters will suffice against Tau for you marine players, wounding the fire warrior on a 2+, outranging him and ignoring his armor is good. Against Crisis suits use landspeeders or assault squads, you can catch them. 

Fast moving assault and a long range firebase wins the day. 

I forgot that 2/3 people are marine players sorry..


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

> Anything with heavy bolters will suffice against Tau for you marine players, wounding the fire warrior on a 2+, outranging him and ignoring his armor is good.


I'm greatly intrigued about why people are so obssessed with destroying those 6 Fire Warriors? What should people do about the other 1440pts of Tau?


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

From personal experience Fury of the ancients Is a real pain for Tau as Is the DC being a fast tough assault unit they can usually take on a whole Tau army all on their own. As mentioned your probably not going to outshoot Tau and If you do they'll outmaneuver you anyhow, the trick Is to close them down and quick via deepstrike, pods, Infiltrate or Jump packs.


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

I find the biggest problem with battling Tau is that there are too few things too shoot at and while I advance to get a better shooting position or getting in to assault range, he shoots my army to pieces.

I have had games where I think the games is going my way, just too realize that the numbers I killed don't total up to that much in victory-points and then he starts killing of my expensive units whit does pesky suites. And I don’t even get to shoot back!!!


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Its all about making the right priority decisions as well when facing tau, as as has been sad you can get to the end of the game an realise your haven't actually scored many vp's. If a few expensive suit squads and vechiles survive u might be short


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

It is much easier to battle them if there are no victory points involved or the mass of points come from objectives.

Just make sure you get last turn so you can grab or secure points/objectives.

Another thing to be aware of is that they don't suck as much as you might expect in CC.
It could actually take a while be fore they break, but when they do they usually eat it!

The problem fighting Tau in CC; is killing the opposing unit in the opponents turn, or he will shoot the living daylight out of the unit with the other units.


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## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

Thanks for the compliments Dan. As an aside, I faced Tau again lastnight in a 2000 point battle. He played an army based around 2 stealth teams, 2 crisis teams, 2 commanders, 3 railheads, 2 IG Squads, 3 Firewarrior Squads and a pathfinder squad.

I used 2 Slugga Boyz Squads with 4 bigshootas in each, 1 Slugga Boyz Squad with 3 rokkits, Warboss and 6 Nobs in mega armor in a trukk with a rokkit launcha, 6 buggies with rokkits, trukk boyz mob and trukk with rokkit launcha, 16 Skar Boyz 3 with burnas led by Big Mek with KFF, battlewagon with zzap gun, rokkits and 5 bigshootas, and a basilisk. I usually take more Bigshootas than Rokkits but I was experimenting a bit.

Mission was take and hold Gamma and ended with him having killed all my buggies, warboss' trukk and two nobs from his squad, 1 mob of Sluggas, ten skar boyz and 3 boyz from another squad. I killed everything except 1 commander who deepstruck on his last turn (I went first) and 2 of his hammerheads which lost their railguns. He conceded the game before we played out turn 5, but if we had played it out he would likely have killed another whole boyz squad and lost both his remaning hammerheads.

The result was a Victorious Slaughter due primarily from VP's gained by holding the objective with the bulk of my army.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

orks vs tau is always likely to be a messy one


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## DarwinsGhost (Jan 19, 2007)

My Chaos army mopped up a combined Tau Nid army (don't ask how we fluffed that). It was 1000pt tau and 1000pt Nid vs my 2000pt Chaos army.

Basically my army was plaguemarines (but not deathguard - thus I could take oblits but did not get free champions or extra summoning roles)

The swarms of nids and some kroot got tied up and slowly killed in building by my swarms of nurglings backed up by my lord and a plaguemarine squad with flamers.

The tau, well, they were simply outshot at 36-48" by a Dread with plasmacann/misslelauncher/Havocs, 3 oblits, and a pred with las sponsons, havovs and an autocannot. At 48-36" the only thing that could shoot back where his hammer toted railguns. But, in the first turn his hammerheads and half his heavy command squad fell to massed chaos fire. After that the fire warriors were smashed apart by the heavy weapons while they slowly moved forward (but never got close enough). A stealth team got off some potshots at the lord, but when a rhino dumps a Kai gun, bolter, melts, and a flamer 3" away it's hard to hide.


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## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

Glad to see I'm not totally out of my mind about the prospect of out shooting Tau. One of the biggest skills involved in being a solid Warhammer general is knowing how to use range, both close and long, to your advantage.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

I'm sorry but I don't get how you can 'outshoot' a competent Tau player with a Mech/Hybrid list.

The 3 Railheads are Range 72" and can move 12" and shoot.
The 4-6 Crisis are Range 36" and can move 6" shoot then hide again- so 42".

The only thing being outranged by you staying outside 30" is *6 Fire Warriors*. And this is beneficial to the Tau player since your not closing in on his hidden Crisis firebase, or threatening the sniping Railheads.

I'll cut you some slack, since these kind of Tau armies are honed/tailored to take on Space Marines (i.e. small numbers of tough troops), and may indeed suffer to hordes of Ork's that they can't kill enough. And maybe, indeed those 6 Fire Warriors are scary for Orks and require hiding from rather than the 3 Railheads and numerous Crisis.

I'd say the opposite of 'outranging' I'd say you have to get as close as possible, as fast as possible. This cuts down the amount of area the Tau player can JSJ and hide amongst. It forces them to be even more cautious with their army.


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## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

Jeridian said:


> I'm sorry but I don't get how you can 'outshoot' a competent Tau player with a Mech/Hybrid list.
> 
> The 3 Railheads are Range 72" and can move 12" and shoot.
> The 4-6 Crisis are Range 36" and can move 6" shoot then hide again- so 42".
> ...


My first problem with the scenario is that I have never once, in all my time playing against Tau, faced an army that had only 6 firewarriors in it. If this is THE standard tau list, it seems to be awefully rare in, well, everywhere I've ever played. The great majority of Tau lists I have faced have been Fish of Fury lists with 36 firewarriors mounted in devilfish. It's not that you don't close the distance on the crisis suits, it's that you outrange his firebase while going after the suits with fast assault units and cutting off their route of escape. 

Honestly, you don't even need to outrange the typical mech Tau list you posted because one turn of massed rokkit fire will totally destroy the list's ability to fight you (barring some horrendously bad rolling). Sure, if his firebase is a whopping 6 FW's then outranging them is pretty pointless, but in that case it's become a moot point. The firepower of a few suits will utterly fail to kill the number of boyz required to slow the green tide. As you said, that list is for killing MEQ, not horde.

So, you're absolutly right, outranging that list you posted is absurd, particularly because it becomes a wholly uneeded tactic. Instead I would simply, shake/stun/destroy the railheads and advance on the suits. I wouldn't even bother with the kroot until everything else was wrapped up. Even if I fail to blow the railheads up turn after turn, simply keeping them from moving or shooting is enough, and I have more than enough rokkits to do that without a real problem. Heck, if I get lucky and blow one or two of them up in the first few rounds the Tau's fate are practically sealed.


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

From experience against some of the best Tau players In the UK theres basically TWO formats for the 'best Infantry in the game' :wink: :

6 x Token Firewarriors + Deckchairs + Tequila + (Optional Sombraro's)

OR

8-10 Fire warriors In a GunFish with SMS etc

I'll tell you now for a fact that most experienced tourney Tau players given the option would mostly Ignore them altogether and fill up on Kroot (possibly the most efficent troops In the game) or add more suits.
Personally against 'tourney' Tau you have to close them down and limit their breathing space then and only then will they start to fall.
Edit: Oh and If you play marines Fury Is COMPULSORY!


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

> My first problem with the scenario is that I have never once, in all my time playing against Tau, faced an army that had only 6 firewarriors in it. If this is THE standard tau list, it seems to be awefully rare in, well, everywhere I've ever played.


 :? 
Have you EVER been to a UK tournment! :wink:


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## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

Having only been to the UK once and that being before I played 40k for the first time, the answer is no. I'd love to take on that list though as I don't see it as being a particularly hard nut to crack. It brings less anti-horde firepower to the tabletop than I normally face, and contains the typical trio of Railheads... I honestly don't see the problem.


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## LongBeard (Dec 22, 2006)

True, the strength of the list Is the ability to bully the elite armies over six whole turns while losing few casualties, most GT or tourny lists are NOT built to face horde armies as there not generally seen as the popular choice. With a horde ork army though skimmer walls, SMS and the HH pie plates could cause problems but I'd probably still go with the Orks If they bring mass rockit spam and manage to hit! :wink:


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

I get your point Warboss Dakka- a Mech Tau list like this will suffer against a horde army like Orks. It has been tailored so much to beat SM's/Eldar/Chaos that it has left itself slightly disadvantaged against Orks.

You also have the right as an Ork player to revel in the ease you have in destroying Tau armies- any victory someone can get with Orks means an IW player quits.


But for most people, most of the time- Ork's don't exist. You are facing MEq's and most often you are using MEq's. In this environment, the Mech Tau list is awesome- it's so easy to use, point and click.

And it's a ballache to fight.


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## Warboss Dakka (Jan 1, 2007)

I totally agree with that list as a good tournament anti-MEQ standard. I also agree with you both that Orks hardly exist in the minds of the tournament masses. I do not so much revel in the ease with which I beat Tau but rather enjoy using tactics that few expect and less prepare for. Most tournament lists I have faced have struggled mightily to counter the Dakka I field. What I revel in is exposing a way of doing things that breaks from what is generally accepted as "the way things are done". I preach the obscure, unused tactics of Dakka, I just hope I didn't come off sounding like an elitest ass while doing it. Forums lack an adequate expression of emotion.


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## Prophaniti (Jan 24, 2007)

No you sound pretty measured to me. I'm also a tau player at GT's (24th at UK heat 1 this year) and my list is geared to Meq's rather than hordes. I do have some horde coverage though.

I'm also one of the rare players that takes a lot (24) firewarriors on foot. Although as Jeridian points out in the UK you aren't usually facing more than 12 firewarriors.

My priority targets are always fast assault units. With a static firebase they can cause all sorts of problems. When it comes to facing orks I've never had a problem, but I face them rarely and my opponents haven't used them with the thought you put into it.

Lastly horde orks have had their status boosted somewhat by the success of an ork army placing 2nd at UKGT heat 2 or 3 this year. The composition (anti-meq horde) is perfect for the metagame at UK tournaments where meq's make up 2/3 of the field and few people equip to fight horde forces.

That's me for now.


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