# Mr. djinn's painting advice



## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Here is your chance to pick my brain on my techniques plus other people will be sure to post their ideas on matters. If you have a short or quick question please post it here and I will post my ideas. If your question is good enough myself and the other experts will use it in an upcoming issue of The Heretic with a more robust details explaination and several opinions.


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## Rahmiel (Jan 3, 2009)

I like to use metallics, but every time I paint them they come out looking streaked, not flat and smooth like it should, I have tried starting with a darker metallic and washing then highlighting, but I still can't get it smooth like it aught to be. What am I doing wrong? I thin the paint down, but not too much.


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Along the same line as Rahmiel, that is it will help with metallics, I'm wondering about dry brushing. I keep either having too much paint such that I just paint the model, or I don't have enough to show. It may seem like a very simple question, but I've heard that dry brushing is a nice technique for new painters to practice and it works well on vehicles. Have you thought of having a "new painters" section and an "advanced painters" section a la the WD Masterclass?


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## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

A few points;

firstly with metallic paints, make sure you mix them really well. Due to the size and weight of the pigment/flakes of the metallic paints they tend to settle very very easily so make sure you mix or shake your pot before use. 

Secondly thin down your paints to give them a smoother finish and put less paint on your brush. But this is also a double edged sword, if you thin them down with water they will have a higher chance of settling at the bottom of your palette so my advice when using metallics is to use a medium which will suspend the flakes for a smooth mix and finish.

Thirdly, ensure your surface is prepared carefully and is smooth, this also includes the primer or base coat of the paint to enable a reduction in streaking. 

Do everything in thin layers and you won't ever get that problem. Preparation of the model before painting counts for a big thing too.

Onto drybrushing, (a technique i avoid like the plague unless necessary) most people put too much paint on their brush when drybrushing, you should ideally brush off most of the paint until you have almost none on the brush. Make sure its not too wet or too dry. And use this technique to build up the highlights gradually, don't expect one layer of drybrush to solve your problems, for an effective drybrushing you will want to apply progressive highlights.

I hope all that helps.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Another note on drybrushing. Dont use a standard brush, as drybrushing is very harsh on the hairs of a brush and it will loose its point and become 'fuzzy'. If I do any drybrushing at all, I use one of my old brushes.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Rahmiel said:


> I like to use metallics, but every time I paint them they come out looking streaked, not flat and smooth like it should, I have tried starting with a darker metallic and washing then highlighting, but I still can't get it smooth like it aught to be. What am I doing wrong? I thin the paint down, but not too much.





moo said:


> A few points;
> 
> firstly with metallic paints, make sure you mix them really well. Due to the size and weight of the pigment/flakes of the metallic paints they tend to settle very very easily so make sure you mix or shake your pot before use.
> 
> ...


This answer covers 90% of the answer on the question. I will add taking a small piece of pewter from an old piece of slag (yeah you should geet them), about 3mm by 3mm, and put it in your metalics to help with the mixing of the paint. Also when moo added to thin them, I recommend using furture floor wax or your contries alternative as it is an acrylic based clear floor cleaner and it helps with paints going on smoother.

As for surface prep, some 2000 grit sand paper, clear coating or spraying hairspray over the area will help it become smoother and allow paints to come on smoother. With hairspray watch out, as the paint over the hairspray will come off easily with water or friction.

Drybrushing has pretty much been covered!

::the djinn24 vanishes::


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## Rahmiel (Jan 3, 2009)

Another thing I find I have a problem with is painting lots of skin. I start with tanned flesh as a base, then I put on a layer of dwarf flesh. After that I paint on elf flesh and wash with dwarf flesh to shade it. Highlighting with elf/skull white. But to me it doesn't look right. I just bought some of the gryphone (however its spelled) sepia and that looks a little better, but too tan. I would like to try and fix my original method, but I don't know what to do. Am I washing at the wrong stage, or with the wrong color do you think?


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## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

Personally with skin tones i would use a base colour of some sort of flesh colour and then ink the area lightly until im happy with the darkest shades. Then i will (in my little palette) put in some of the ink/wash and slowly add some of the base coloured paint to it. From there i would progressively add more as i highlight up. This will give you a good gradual transition of colour. Don't expect the inks and washes to do all the work for you . Once you hit the base colour then start adding highlight colour like white or if i want the character to be a bit more colder i add some space wolf grey. If i wanted him/her to have a warmer colour i actually add some pink/yellow mix to give them a warmer glow.


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

My first suggestion would be to stay away from the GW flesh tones as they are pretty crappy in the colour end of the painting spectrum, well Dwar flesh is crap. I tend to start out with Tallarn flesh as the base... if only GW would make all their paints Foundations... After that I Shade with Ogryn flesh wash. Sepia has too much of a yellowish tinge to it to be an effective flesh wash IMO. My flesh painting is different all the time, but I would add Elf flesh to the base colour instead of white, and end off with elf flesh as the final highlight. It's a more natural progression. The fast way of doing it is to paint with Dark flesh, Tallarn flesh on the raised areas, and elf flesh on the final highlight. It's a quick way and elimates the need to wash the flesh. With washes i tend to use them on the base coat, or at best after the midtone is on, then end with a final highlight. never use white to mix up the highlight as it will become more pastel in colour and not give you the natural progression in shades that you're looking for! Hope that helps!!

here's a pic that kinda highlights my method of base, midtone, wash, highlight... as a side note this guy is painted with Vallejo Model colour flesh tones and mixed to represent a cold flesh tone. I rarely use anyother flesh tones than vallejo.


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## Rahmiel (Jan 3, 2009)

Thanks a lot, I'll try that on my next unit of sisters. I din know that GW skin tones were crappy, what other brand would you recommend?


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Vallejo Model Colors, Reaper Master Series, or P3.


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## Rahmiel (Jan 3, 2009)

Ok, I know where I can buy Reaper paints, but not the others. Where do you get them?


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

well I guess it depens on where you are man! Most hobby shops carry Vallejo, but you can always get them online


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Depending where you live, normally online. Not many store sell full lines of Vallejo since their racks cost a fortune. YOu can also ask your LGS to order you some of them as well. Also the Reaper Master Series is different then the typical Reaper paints.


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## Rahmiel (Jan 3, 2009)

Oh thanks guys.


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

There are quite a few places here that sell vallejo on the racks. I never see the game colours, but I guess being in a Metropolitan area really helps1 Don't know how far you are from Long Island Rahmiel, but it may be worth the trip to pic of some of the vallejos my LGS sells.. Or call them up maybe they do mail order, I'll ask for ya


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

The War Store also mail order VGC and VMC as well as RMS.


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## Hellskullz (Jul 24, 2008)

I have the same question as Rahmiel about skin, only its orkz.
Would you still follow the same process as with the flesh colors? 
and how would you highlight the muscles?


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

Same method works for all flesh tones! To highlight take your midtone and add some yellow. What colors are you planning on using? there are a few different types of green out there


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

With Ork skin you can do one of two methods, both of which can turn our really well. 

Start with a base of your choice of green and mix 2 parts dark brown with 1 part of your green, base the model in that color. Then paint all the raised edges with a straight cut of your green and finally highlight with a 1:1 mix of you green with Bleached bone.

Next method sounds like the newb way out but really can come out with some better shading if done with the right technique of layers. Start and base your skin with your choice of green, wash heavily with your choice of wash, I suggest the brown or black. Then lightly wash with the same shade, washing a bit higher on the details. Finally you can highlight with your original green and maybe the extreme edges with a 1:1 green wth bleach bone.


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

The Ork player in GW's Tale of Four Gamers used a similar strategy and he works on the 'Eavy Metal team.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Anyone else have any questions? Includes how to's, what to use, interesting and different ideas on things. ASK AWAY!


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## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

I popped into a new model store today in town; they don't sell Games Workshop products but have a wide variety of paints and modelling materials. I noticed the Vallejo rack, although it only had Model Colours on (as opposed to Game Colours). Is there much difference? 

Secondly, I noticed they sell a variety of 'mediums' - metallic, matte etc. Is the matte medium what moo spoke of when mixing metallics to smooth them and in what ratio to paint? Furthermore, is the metallic medium any good for making non-metallics metallic?


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Syph said:


> I popped into a new model store today in town; they don't sell Games Workshop products but have a wide variety of paints and modelling materials. I noticed the Vallejo rack, although it only had Model Colours on (as opposed to Game Colours). Is there much difference?


Model colors tend to have a fuller richer color, and more choices in the color line as well, but do not hold up as well to game play. The game line is formulated for game play. But this problem can be solved by spraying your model with a few coats of a clear finish.



> Secondly, I noticed they sell a variety of 'mediums' - metallic, matte etc. Is the matte medium what moo spoke of when mixing metallics to smooth them and in what ratio to paint? Furthermore, is the metallic medium any good for making non-metallics metallic?


From out friends at www.fauxalacarte.com



> Can we mix any colorant into any of the ‘Metallic Paint Mediums’ to produce a custom color?
> Both the Dispersions and Slow Drying Fluids can be used to tint the Metallic Mediums and Texture.
> 
> However, one should not add more than 10% by volume of either to a mixture as a change in application properties may result.
> ...


In a nutshell yes you can add paints to a metallic medium but you must be careful of the amount pigment you add. Also clear pigments will be better then typical paints (the new GW washes, or P3 inks).

Matte Medium will thin the pigment out in your paint some but will allow it to go on smoother as well as less shiney/glossy. If you do not care about the amount of shine (because you are going to dullcoat it) then you can also use future floor wax or any clear acrylic floor wax, ot mix with your paints to smooth the finish out, but doing so will cause them to become glossy.


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## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

That's great djinn, thanks bud. I'm thinking of using the metallic medium in washes to coat my Cold Ones to give the scales a real lizard sort of appearance. The matte medium may also help with this so I'm sure to investigate it further now. Cheers!


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I would suggest looking for irridecent white paint and mixing that in for a slight shimmer look as well. You can also use pearlecent paints.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

I have a real problem with Blending red. I have gotten all the advice you could imagine, from Heresy's own Moo... But I keep getting the same problem. The paint pools, So, my blending then looks really bad, and I just don't want to do it again haha, so, help? Advice? 

Another question, painting an entire rhino red... And the inside bone...
The outside, how should it be painted? Basecoat or not? Or just straight on with watered down blood red? 

By the way, I don't like using the new Foundation, because the red won't go on aswell to that as the black primer...

Cheers!


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

if your layering is pooling, it normally means that you're using too much water to thin it down.. use less water and the pooling will stop! As for foundations, that means you're not using them right. It might take a couple of coats to get it right as you have to thin them down, but I really think you're using too much water to thin your paints out!


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

You can also get an acrylic clear medium to "thin" your paints out. Normally this will be clear and slightly to a lot thinner then typical paints but will hold the pigment better. By using these products you can create a glaze that is semi opaque to transparent.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

HorusReborn said:


> if your layering is pooling, it normally means that you're using too much water to thin it down.. use less water and the pooling will stop! As for foundations, that means you're not using them right. It might take a couple of coats to get it right as you have to thin them down, but I really think you're using too much water to thin your paints out!


Ok, I'll put it another way with the Foundations . I *prefer* using just primer to foundations, as I prefer the texture :biggrin:

Thanks for the advice guys!


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Oh Marn if you can not find artist medium you can also use acrylic floor polish (clear).


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Ok, will do a few searchs and see what I come up with! :biggrin:
Thanks Again


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## Duke Vorian (Jun 21, 2008)

I have a few: Black armour; plasma gun coils; and horses


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

What do you want to know about those? Those are kinda broad!


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Djinn what do you do with the metal models you've painted? Do you put a finish on them or just leave them with the paint?

Also what finish would you use for them? Spray or Brush on?


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## Duke Vorian (Jun 21, 2008)

Sorry, haha. Um, How to paint black armour in general. I just put Chaos Black and thats it....but it looks way to boring. I'm told to do streaks of Fotress Grey on the 'high points' but its not working for me. 

As for Plasma Gun coils, um, how do you make it look really sweet? haha. Glowy and such, a blue coil glow.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Duke Vorian said:


> Sorry, haha. Um, How to paint black armour in general. I just put Chaos Black and thats it....but it looks way to boring. I'm told to do streaks of Fotress Grey on the 'high points' but its not working for me.
> 
> As for Plasma Gun coils, um, how do you make it look really sweet? haha. Glowy and such, a blue coil glow.


Black armour is always annoying .
In my opinion, to highlight do a 50:50 mix of Black to Fortress Grey, and paint the highpoints, where the light hits and you can see a reflection. Then, gradually make it 25:75 mix of Chaos Black to Fortress Grey, and then for a really extreme highlight add a bit of a lighter grey in there, or even white.


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## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

Duke Vorian said:


> I have a few: Black armour; plasma gun coils; and horses


Black is one of those colours difficult to paint well, as you want to give it some highlights without it looking grey. I just add a dark shade of grey to black and gradually increase it till i think it looks right. Or if you're feeling adventurous something like a blue added to the black (not alot) can sometimes lift the colour out.

Plasma gun coils are easy to paint imo, give it a base colour of enchanted blue and then just highlight each little raised bit with incremental additions of ice blue and then skull white. For the glow effect (OSL) you need to use those incremental highlights to pick them out around the surrounding area of the "plasma coils" the lightest areas being the ones closest to the source of the light, also bear in mind light travels in straight lines so not all surfaces will have the light picked up. Its one of those techniques you need to practice more then be told how it's done.

Horses..... erm stick it on the grill and ensure you marinade it well and finish it up with some veg and apple sauce. :so_happy:


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Wusword77 said:


> Djinn what do you do with the metal models you've painted? Do you put a finish on them or just leave them with the paint?
> 
> Also what finish would you use for them? Spray or Brush on?


For sure spray them down with a good matte finish for sure, stay away from teh GW though. Testors Dullcoat is probably the industry standard for a nice even clear coat. 

If you have an airbrush you can also find some good clear coats that you can spray on that way as well. Brush on is not bad for the bits you want shiney.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Moo pretty much has it for black but coils can also have a wash of blue wash or blue ink with an additional highlight of enchanted blue to give it a bit more of a pop.


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## DarkAngels_4 (Sep 6, 2008)

Hi there, I have a problem which for me is very difficult to solve it. I cut an ork head and i put it in the lower side of a terminator hand (looks like he just cut the head of the ork). My question is how can I create blood, like it is just a fresh cut of the ork head and the blood is already there and its almost liquid. I heard a theory of using quitar tales but I dont know how. Can you help me with that idea??

PS: Sorry for my bad english, I am from Greece...


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

If you get red ink, now wash but actual red ink and either use is pure or mix it slightly with blood red paint you get that really bright red that has a sheen to it like blood.

Now if you want a jagged looking would that has chunks of flesh hanging from it you can use Green Stuff to create the effect, or has you are carving the extra away leave enough matierial to make it look like there is still flesh there.


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## Rahmiel (Jan 3, 2009)

K I just ran into a problem with my nids. I used the color scheme like the ones on the boxes, but instead of a liche purple wash I used scaly green. In the codex the washes look as though they gave this excellent full deep color in the recesses. I had no such luck. My wash looked horrible and the deep recesses were barely covered after about five gaunts later I found that the only way to get that deep color was to just plain pain the whole model scaly green, but then this has to be painted over with bleached bone and that takes a lot of coats to cover (and with an army of gaunts it is not time effective). Is there a way to get a better wash or a way to cover the green easier? You guys have all been a great help in the past, I would greatly appreciate some help with this problem. Thanks.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I would suggest going and getting the green wash that GW sales. Making your own washes will work with some colors but not really well with other colors. you are probably not getting god color in the recesses due to the amount of water you have to add, it is probably diluting the pigment to much to get a good coverage.

But in all serousness go grab yourself the GW green wash, it gives great coverage and can be mixed with small amounts of paints to affect the shade and color as well.


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## Rahmiel (Jan 3, 2009)

Thanks Djinn I'll get some when I venture to the store.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Grab the black and brown at least, those two are like sex in a bottle to quote Mart007 and can be used by beginner to expert to great levels.


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## Vampboi (Jan 9, 2009)

Hey Djinn, got some questions about black. I am painting up my army for Chaos Marines (Hakkanor's Reavers). I am having some issues figuring out how to add some depth to the areas that are just straight black. The only option I've been able to find or think of is using something like a 70:30 mix of black/grey and hardlining the edges and pronounced areas, but I'm really looking for a method that would add some depth to the black. Would drybrushing white on the areas then washing them with the GW black work or look decent? Or anything else you can think of.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I am a firm believer of reverse highlighting, such as painting the lighter colors first and then layering the darker colors over it until you get the desired depth and highlighting. With black I would almost suggest starting and basing with a very dark grey and go over it with a black wash to fill the crevices and layer on top of the plating.

If you already have a black model hardlining dark dark grey and building up to slightly lighter shades will give you the best results. If you are just looking for a table top quality you can also dry brush to speed the process up. When I say dark dark grey, you do not want it that noticible to the naked eye, that is to avoid the Tron look.


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## Kalamadorel (Feb 10, 2009)

When painting the grey knight nemesis force weapons what would you recommend on how to paint the blades? 










Theres an example of what I mean.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Well if that is your model up there then I say you are spot on. If not then It is up to you. Normally Power weapons are done in blues like above, but some have been done in red and look really well. I always suggest using a color vs flat metals since you have to convey a sense of power, which is normally attributed to electricity.


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## Kalamadorel (Feb 10, 2009)

Nah thats not my model (I wish :grin It was just an example of how I would like to paint force/power weapons.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Is that the same color scheme that you want (the blues) or did you want to go with a different color? Basically I think the picture is self explanitory, paint the entire thing the darkest color you want, and slowly build up the lighter colors on the areas you want higlights with more highlights on the tip and less on the bottom. I am not a fam of the breaks the person has in the blade but that is entirely preference.


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## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

Here's one that's been asked often, but I still can't get it right. How do you paint a clean white? And reasonably fast, for RnF quality models, so just watering down and layering isn't an option. I've tried bleached bone basecoats with washes, that looked horrid. I tried bleached bone up to white in 3 layers, didn't really work. I tried space wolf grey base up to a white, and that still came out blotchy. How the hell do you paint a decent white? I'm about 3 days away from paint stripping everything and spray painting them white.


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

Thats one of Tom Schadle's pieces. The color recipe is on his site if you havent seen it:
VMC 50 Dark Prussian Blue
VMC 52 Intense Blue
VMC 54 Royal Blue
VMC 55 Ultramarine
VMC 65 Andrea Blue
VMC 66 Deep Sky Blue
VMC 67 Sky Blue
GW Skull White
GW Blue Ink Glaze

Other then that its just what djinn said, build up the colors form darkest(@ hilt) to lightest(@ tip of blade). Put in the white lines and ink the blade blue. Go back over the tip with a little white. Presto. You can cut a few of those colors out especially if your gonna drybrush instead of layer.


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## Kalamadorel (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks very much for the help guys.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I normally spray paint them white and use washes. 

If you have already based in another color the other lighter greys and such only help the white pigment to not be over whelmed by the darker base coat. I am guessing you are wanting the very top to be a nice straight white? Well I know white is one of those colors that always likes to streak and go on thick. I have found that flow aid (winsor and newton galleria series) helps with that while not cutting down on the pigment count. If you want a really smooth coat you can cut your white paint (or any color) with future floor wax (clear acrylic floor wax) and that helps the paints go down smooth, but can be toxic, read the labels. 

How many layers is your max? Can you post a pics of some of your test pieces please.


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## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

djinn24 said:


> How many layers is your max? Can you post a pics of some of your test pieces please.


Crappy pics, but all I have is a web cam. From left to right they are

- Bleached Bone with Devlan Mud wash
- Bleached Bone with Ogryn Flesh wash, white overlayer (dear god that was a mistake)
- Bleached Bone with Black Wash (still ugly but better), white overlayer
- Space Wolves Grey with white overlayer.

I'd prefer no more than a 3 step process, as my 2250 list has over 100 of these little buggers, but if a respectable white takes a bit more I'll suck it up. I'm shooting for a cleaner white look. Any chance you could detail your method for starting with white and washing down?


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## rob12763 (May 2, 2008)

future has a lot of great qualities,if you add just a little to your washes it helps them break surface tension and settle down in the cracks.Rob


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## Darkweo1209 (Nov 22, 2008)

I'm Painting a biel-tan eldar army and I'm having some problems trying to get a decent wash for the white armor. I've tried grey and black washes, but they come to dark... any ideas?


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

With white you are going to end up having to go back over the white areas to brighten them up a bit once you put the wash on, that or use inks with a very fine tip brush and have it only flow into the crevises.


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## Sieg (Dec 3, 2007)

i am starting to paint my eagle warriors and i was wondering if you had any tips for halving modes. Mostly, is it usually free hand or is something used to make the split. Also, any suggestions on what colors to use to do highlights or shading on blue or white?


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I have never halved models and unless you have access to an airbrush any tips I would give on this one other then, go slow, would be mute.

Blue you just use the blue wash to wash it, and a slightly lighter blue for highlights. AS for white I normally start with a semi dark grey and paint the white over that so it ends up shading itself, if not you are going to end up repainting the white once you wash the first time anyways. For white, thin coats, many coats. Once again I would suggest the future slor wax to help it go on smooth. White seems to be the biggest pain in the ass with brush strokes and comeing out all wacky.


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

hey djinn, its really nice that your doing this for the people of heresy, and i just have to say, this is the reason why i came here, for people like djinn. but anyway, my question

i have trouble keeping motivated in painting alot of figures, probably not that much, but i have an airbrush that i can use here for base coating, but i dnt have the thinner-paint ratio for the foundation or normal gw paints?

and i am very interested in the RMS and was wondering if getting the metallic colours would be a good choice? ive heard that gw do good metallics, and also i have heard that reapers series are pre mixed with drying retarder and thinner? does this effect their coverage compared to gw or are they simmilar?

thanx, Dirty-dog-


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## Troajn (Feb 25, 2009)

This question has probably been asked a thousand times, but I was reading a post on ork skin by Red Corsairs

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18246

In stage one he mentions using a basecoat of Catachan Green, is it a rule of thumb that this base coat would be diluted, if so by what ratio. I am new to this and I get the impression that all colours should be diluted and never used straight from the pot, but not all tutorials tell you. What is the general rule?

Thanks


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I always use the GW metalicsm I find that their products in this area is best. If you are planning on airbrushing more you should look into the Vallejo Airbrush colors. I have not used them yet but have heard good things about them.

Normally I mix at about 1 part mixing solution and 1 or 2 parts water depending on the paint and what pigment/how old it is. The art of airbrushing is mainly in mixing your paints, that is probably the hardest thing.

For base coating. 1:1 or 1:2 is always a nice mix. You want them thin enough to ofer good coverage and not gunk up the details but thick enough where it does ot take you 10.000 coats to get coverage.


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## Troajn (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks for the reply, so would that be a general rule, to add water to all inks prior to painting


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I do, but the amount varies as to what I am doing. Vallejo and I believe RMS are some of the thinner paints and I still thin them some.


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## Nerdbot (Jun 4, 2008)

i Need Some help with my Black Templars i am going to start. Im wondering should i basecoat white or black.. im worried about the white..thx


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

when i was going to do black templars i was going to basecoat them white and paint the black on after, so that i didnt have to worry about painting white over black unless i made a mistake.

but they way that i was going to paint white on them if i did do a white over black was going to be painting denheb stone on it then slowy progressing up to white with thinned layers.

p.s, thans for the answer djinn, helped out alot, infact im building a ventilation booth now cause mum wont let me use it otherwise.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I would basecoat white and then build thedarker shades and I would almost advise agains going straight to black. Look at black items in photos and very little of the object will actually look black, it will be a mix of greys and lighers colors, depending on the lighting. If you do go straight to black then watch he highlighting, use gradual steps and build them.

If yougo with basing black then paint the white areas with a bleach bone or light color grey before going straight white.


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## Nerdbot (Jun 4, 2008)

Thx for the tips. I think im going to basecoat black and slowly build up the white.:victory:


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## Dessel_Ordo (Jul 28, 2008)

... wet blending and osl are kicking my ass.
Specifically, OSL off of a bikes headlight, and a green lightning type wet-blend.
help?


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

OK; i've got a question...

I'm OK at painting but i'm very slow... it takes me ages to finish a model to a standard i'm happy with and subsequently I lose interest rather fast and find it difficult to finish armies.

Do you have any advice for painting faster but at relatively the same quality, or is it just a case of becoming faster with practise? Case in point; i've just got a new Tau army and i've got 48 Fire Warriors to paint; i'm half way through my first guy as a test piece and it's taken me 3 hours so far...


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I will research the OSL since I have yet to use it much myself, sorry i did not see the new post there.

As far as the speed painting. Line 10 or 20 models up and do the same parts at the same time (base, head, eyes, clothe). It will make it a bit less bleh and help you speed up a bit. Also go for getting the three color min first and get the army up and running then start worring about GS winning armes as well. You can always repaint over a clear coat.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

*poof* the djinn is back, while these will not be going into the Heretic as its format has changed, it may eventually be compiled into a one off PDF to spread the Heresy more! Have a look through and see if you like the info you have gotten or ask a new question!


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> *poof* the djinn is back, while these will not be going into the Heretic as its format has changed, it may eventually be compiled into a one off PDF to spread the Heresy more! Have a look through and see if you like the info you have gotten or ask a new question!


Well i'm YET to see any good advice on simple ways to paint Gold armor with out it looking stupidly fake (Yes it is always done "Correct" by highlight standards but it still looks crappy to the eye) Or maybe something on force weapons....i would kill for a good way to do ice blue force weapons..... *cough is painting hector rex cough*


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## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

Dessel_Ordo said:


> ... wet blending and osl are kicking my ass.
> Specifically, OSL off of a bikes headlight, and a green lightning type wet-blend.
> help?


For starters OSL is a very scene orientated technique, depends very much on the setting and area around. But simple and quick OSL on weapons and lenses etc can be achieved with slow highlights of a certain colour like green for example, moving from dark angels green all the way up to goblin green and then possibly doing a 50:50 mix of goblin green and skull white to the source of lighting itself. 

Just remember light travels in straight lines (except in some cases but that's more a physics lesson than is necessary here) and so some areas of the model will not be hit by the OSL beams so try to draw an imaginary line from the source to the object itself. 

Generally speaking the area being surrounded will the ones hit by the light, the closer it is to the source the stronger the highlights. In a real life example and can also be applied to assist when painting  is to get a small torch and shine it on the model and see where the light hits, that will give you an idea of source lighting. (This is also a cheat technique for doing the source highlighting which i do on my models )



bishop5 said:


> OK; i've got a question...
> 
> I'm OK at painting but i'm very slow... it takes me ages to finish a model to a standard i'm happy with and subsequently I lose interest rather fast and find it difficult to finish armies.
> 
> Do you have any advice for painting faster but at relatively the same quality, or is it just a case of becoming faster with practise? Case in point; i've just got a new Tau army and i've got 48 Fire Warriors to paint; i'm half way through my first guy as a test piece and it's taken me 3 hours so far...


Unfortunately i have found 3 things which help, but it is a very personal thing. Everyone is different and variety is the name of the game really.
1. Lots of practice and getting used to being quicker. Although in actuality as i improve my painting i get slower ! :threaten:
2. Find quicker ways of painting or skip a step but you can lose quality in this sense. Stuff like washes and inks help speed up the process immensely, even wetblending or airbrushes.
3. Find something to put on in the background or juggle 2 projects to keep you motivated.

When i first started painting it took me 4-5 hours to do a tabletop miniature and that wasn't great either. Now it takes me about 3-4 hours to do a fairly neat tabletop model. 

Oh as a quickie side note for point number 2. Undercoat the whole model black and then use a coloured spraycan like from army painter and spray from the above position in light motions building up the layers, this will give you a sense of shading and highlighting on a model without doing very much. Then just tidy up the model and add details 





Witch King of Angmar said:


> Well i'm YET to see any good advice on simple ways to paint Gold armor with out it looking stupidly fake (Yes it is always done "Correct" by highlight standards but it still looks crappy to the eye) Or maybe something on force weapons....i would kill for a good way to do ice blue force weapons..... *cough is painting hector rex cough*



Depends on what type of gold effect you're going for, i.e. metallics or NMM. -If it's NMM, one of the white dwarfs with the sanguinor does a pretty darn good example but it's a timely process and requires alot more than the tutorial actually describes as NMM needs good blending to work effectively. Most of the examples i've seen around are really blocky and too abrupt.
-Metallics on the other hand are quicker but more difficult to achieve a really good contrast as metallics are always hard to photograph. But washes and inks are your winner here. Lots of layers on the lower sides and joins will darken the metallic paint sufficiently to give you a good contrast, however due to the nature of washes etc, it's a really time consuming process and you need to wait for each layer to dry first or else you'll have a chance of rubbing off the previous layer.

Phew  anyway enough of a little side-kick advice from me, back to Djinn and i'll go hide under my bridge now and attack any other painters coming my way :smoke:


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

moo said:


> For starters OSL is a very scene orientated technique, depends very much on the setting and area around. But simple and quick OSL on weapons and lenses etc can be achieved with slow highlights of a certain colour like green for example, moving from dark angels green all the way up to goblin green and then possibly doing a 50:50 mix of goblin green and skull white to the source of lighting itself.
> 
> Just remember light travels in straight lines (except in some cases but that's more a physics lesson than is necessary here) and so some areas of the model will not be hit by the OSL beams so try to draw an imaginary line from the source to the object itself.
> 
> ...


Hmmm for artificer armor i was thinking to try the following
0)Prime Black
1)Base Coat Grey 
2)Paint over with Mithiral Silver
3)Wash with Sepia in layers till it starts to have a hint of a yellow\gold shine
4)Drybrush Shining Gold over the raised area's
5)Wash with Sepia Lightly
6)Highlight with Burnished gold along all the armors fine points near the cracks.

7)?????

8)Profit.


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## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

That would work i think, the only aspects i don't like but is more a personal preference is the drybrushing because it's generally quite a messy technique. I've actually never used sepia so i don't know how bright/dull coloured etc. When i painted my dwarf army i used a similar technique but rather than burnished gold and sepia when i finished the gun-metal colours i used watered down yellow wash to make it really bright, so i know the technique works. I would say find an old model that you really don't care too much about (use it as a gold statue as a marker later ) and test it out on that.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I would think burnished gold, brown wash, drywash burnished gold again, shining gold and then finally mithril. But metallics are finicky. I normally airbrush an alchol based gold on and wash it with brown and black washes to get the effect I want, yeah I know, I cheat.

Moo and any other painter PLEASE feel free to answer stuff. I am a good painter, and a technical painter but I am not the gods gift to painters.


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## Dagmire (Oct 9, 2008)

Dear Mister Djinn,
My name is Dagmire and I have been painting for about 2 years now. You may have seen some of my work both here ( http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=60606)
and here ( http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54286 ).
Most people know that I am very much into the Inquisition; they will also know that Gray knights are coming soon. 
Clearly I will be buying myself a force, my problem is that I have only ever painted 1 space marine. I am unsure on how to get the best effect on marines. I will be trying an NMM silver OR a “stone like” light gray. Both colour schemes are new to me and very difficult to paint. I will also want some green eye sockets with Light source shading, again another hard effect to achieve.
Although I will not be dirtying them down as much as my guard I will want a chipped like effect on their ornate armour.
I am not sure on how the Force weapons will look but again I want a difficult task to set myself in order to become a better player
I ask for your help now sir in both sorting out a good painting guide and also tips on how to achieve said effects.
Yours hopefully
D


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I remember you Dag, your one of the posters I was happy to still see around. Glad to see that you finished your Sister army and damn does it look nice. It appears your skill has greatly approved since the last time I saw your work.

I myself am looking forward to the new Grey Knights as well. I have a 3000 or so points of them and want to see what new models come out. The armor chipping is a pretty easy effect. Paint a black base, cover almost all of it with silver metalic and then shade.

OLS and NMM are two effects that I need to learn myself. From what I understand going an army of NMM Grey Knights would be a holy hell. I will look around and see if I can find some good tutorials on these topics, I recall a NMM tutorial done by moo or squeek in the tutorial section.

I am painting mine boltgun and working on highlights from there. Basically painting a Space Marine is much like painting a sister. Start with your base, wash it a few times and then apply a few layers of highlight colors.

Here is one issue, these are suppose to be reflective right? Silver? That is going to play hell with the OLS since the silver would reflect better.


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## Otep (Mar 18, 2008)

I have a slight problem with my SoB's hair. I hate normal looking models and want mine to be "unique" and all that fun stuff!

My special girls are along the lines of Scorpion green and the normal sisters are a 1:2 mix of the pink-ish purple (the name escapes me) and elf flesh. i have problem's highlighting them and giving them depth because their both fairly vibrant colours. I dont know where to start


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Oof that is a good one, you can't just add white because it bleaches it out.

I would say take the darker of the 2 mixes and go 2:1 to start with.
First Highlight would be your normal 1:1.
Second Highlight 1:2. 

You can also use a wash between the highlights and then redo the highlight (2:1, wash, 2:1, 1:1, wash, 1:1, etc etc).

That should give you some depth and highlight.


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## Otep (Mar 18, 2008)

I may give that shot once my Sargent stops calling me to help out cleaning the cage/do inventory/random military crap


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

You at Irwin? Whats your MOS?


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## Otep (Mar 18, 2008)

i'm at fort couch  reserves for the lose! the closest base here is march air reserve base 

i was at fort irwin last weekend though for traning, long ass convoy when you have to be the RTO  i'm a 25u... techy s6 type lol


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Damn radio fixer. I am an 88M now and getting forced to reclass to 36B.


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## Otep (Mar 18, 2008)

eeeeeeeew... my light wheel buddy's wife is going for 88m at the moment O_O 

again, thank you for for the tip


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## Azwraith (Apr 23, 2009)

Okay can i have a little help on using a basic airbrush (Paasche VLS) 
like how to handle distance you use etc?

and how you dilute the paints

i use Vallejo Game colours.. has anyone had experience airbrushing with them? whats the right medium.. what ratio do you use for diluting.

mm.. and how many layers of white does it take to get it smooth.. i always have trouble getting it smooth.


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## Scathainn (Feb 21, 2010)

So, to be honest....

I'm not the world's greatest painter. I like to think I'm ok, and that I can paint at tabletop quality or above...but that isn't necessarily the case.

Now, recently, I've stripped down my entire army (because I hated it) and started repainting them as Space Sharks. My recipe so far is quite simple: prime Army Painter Uniform Grey (basically Codex Grey), wash with Badab Black once or twice, then paint from there.

Here are some pics of my nearly finished Space Sharks Captain (needs to finish eye lenses, the spiked shoulder pad, fix the highlighting on the relic blade, some other small details):






































So, my two questions.

1. Based on these pictures, in all honesty, how good of a painter do I seem to be? 

2 (a slightly more practical question): How would you go about making models like these look a little grimy? Not necessarily battle-damaged, but just...dirty, I guess.


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## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

djinn24 said:


> Moo and any other painter PLEASE feel free to answer stuff. I am a good painter, and a technical painter but I am not the gods gift to painters.


Well to be fair there are many people who offer brilliant advice as they've seen it and have experience with the same issues of model painting but not always necessarily applying it often themselves so i think just giving advice whether it's from experience or just knowledge will never be bad advice in that respect.

@Dagmire: i would say good luck to you mate  lol, i love NMM but i could never do a gray knight army, it's too much for my attention span and patience. I think it would be very very time consuming process especially for a whole army. I would actually recommend metallics (i'm waiting for the NMM painting gods to strike me down) they would offer a quicker result especially for gaming just using washes, inks and different shades of metals will help give you a great effect in a quicker amount of time. This is just what i recommend but it also depends what you're going for, a gaming army? or a display army? if you're going for the latter i'd invest the time to try NMM and see if you like it and can apply it to the whole force.

As a side-note i would recommend that anyone venturing more into painting techniques should concentrate on one at a time and get used to them. So wanting to do NMM and OSL is quite daunting really as you're trying two mid-high level techniques in one go. Obviously everyone is different but for me i'd rather be awesome at 2-3 techniques than being mediocre at all techniques.

@Scathainn: I can't see the pictures, is it possible for you to reupload?


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## Scathainn (Feb 21, 2010)

Hang on a sec, let me try a different server.

EDIT: Should work now.


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## Dagmire (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks Moo and djinn


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## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

Scathainn said:


> So, to be honest....
> 
> I'm not the world's greatest painter. I like to think I'm ok, and that I can paint at tabletop quality or above...but that isn't necessarily the case.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the re-upload, to answer your questions in my opinion:

1. You stay fairly neat and you have nice smooth paintjobs with consistent coverage which makes you potentially a better than average painter, but for my own stylistic tastes you need to black line or better define each area and give some contrast to the model which will make it look better. Depends very much for what you're looking for really, army/tabletop painter or display painter?

To help properly define the areas you can do a couple things, first is to just get more badab black and just splosh it on, it will make things messy but you just then get some grey and re-apply it to the areas after the wash is dry and that'll neaten up the model.
The other is to actually use the tip of the brush and carefully with some watered down black apply the paint to the edges and crevasses of the model to give it really strong definition (note if you think the use of black is too much brown is a good alternative, oh and brown ink is GW's gift to painters)

2. To make your model more gritty and stuff you can do a couple of things. Look at weathering powders from Forgeworld or better yet MiG have the cheaper and better formulation, but it is easily rubbed off and requires some way of sealing it on the model.
For grimy models, you can always get some mud effect and splash it around the legs instead of the weathering powders, or you can get some badab black and make a streaky effect across the smooth upper surfaces of the model to signify ash and soot hitting the model at speed etc. or you can apply rust or oil along certain joints, much like you see in nurgle models but works well with power armour actually. Obviously as you'd pointed out battle damage works pretty well too.

One thing to bear in mind is that the base of a model really sets the tone and atmosphere, so if you wanted grimy you can always do a industrial waste base with cans of chemicals etc and rubbish on the base in rubble, barbed wire etc. or you could go for an arid desert, broken land feel with red or white dust etc, which would work well with the weathering powders.

PS: damn mold lines !!!, drilling the barrel helps give it a bit more realism too


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

i dont know if this has been posted i read the first page and the decided to post.
If youre laszy and dont feel like wet blending and highlighting just dry brush.
Now i know dry brushing has been covered, but if youre army lets say space marines or chaos have gold trim id suggest doing the trim first if youre highlighting. simply prime the model first, then apply scorched brown to the trim area, then begin dry brushing dwarf bronze to the trim. Once you feel the dwarf bronze is ballanced begin dry brushing burnished gold to the areas which light hits the model. you can spread this layer down and hit all the edges nicely. then mix mithril silver and burnished gold either 50/50 or slightly less mithril silver the color should be silverish white gold. apply this light and you really want a lot of the paint off the brush. only apply this coat where the light plays on the model the most. so like towards the top of the trim. thats how i paint gold and i do this before i base the model so that the dry brushing dosent spread on the color, and so you dont have to worry about small drybrushing area. Dont know if that helped. the same process for silver but with shadow grey as a base coat and chain mail and mithril silver.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

@Scath. I would say you are a solid painter with a great start. You paint is neat and looks fairly smooth. Like Moo said I would but more black or brown wash on it to give it more depth, I probably use more of that then any other paint by far.








Also if your doing a fairly large army you might wanna consider this stuff. Its a lot like the wash but a bit thicker. YOu can also use Minwax water based wood stain but you have to be careful as it is thicker and will glob on your model.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw1b56j_gSI&feature=player_embedded#!

If you get you hands on the minwax use this technique on it as well, its done the exact same way and is 5 bucks a can vs 30. 

Looking at that powerweapon it is time for you to also start working on wet blending. There are some great tuts on it and you have the perfect model to start on there.

@Azw: I use both VMC and VGC through my airbrush, but I have a gravity feed so the mix will be slightly different since you are pulling it up from the bottle. So keep that in mind as I go through this. Word of warning you will get gunk on your needle tip, its the downside of using acrylis paints in an airbrush.

I basically either use water, windex, or a drying retarder to thin my paints. Windex works the best. You want to mix it to a consistancy between 2% and whole milk. The next deal is to figure what pressure you want/need to paint at. You do this by figuring out how fine you want to spray and mess with the airpressure until the paint stops streaking as you spray it. I normally use my desk to screw around but a piece of paper or a pallet would work great to.

If the white is not going on smooth then ensure you are mixing you paints well, if they are really old you can try straining them through a piece of pantyhose. I normally have to shoot white about 3-5 layers for total coverage over a dark color.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

Yo Klomster here.
I see myself as a good painter, and i always get a nice paintjob that get the reflection "Cool!" Both from myself and others.

I get colour fields and such neat and tidy, but when it comes to the more advanced highlights and getting transactions between layers and also freehand jobs, it takes to a halt.
It seems i've hit a highpoint, like this is a good i'm gonna get.
I hope that is not the case and hope to learn those insane layering techniques i see on some armies.










Example paintjob.










And another one.

As you can see is roughly my level of skill. The Techpriest is a winner of 1 painting comp (not much of a comp, 4 contestants and i got split first) and not placing in a bigger one.

I'll also throw in the model many people claim is my best work









Anyways, problems are.
How do get better at the extreme highlights and freehand jobs.
How do i persuade myself to start blending paints, i don't water down, i don't mix more than i have to.
I almost only paint from the pot, and that works to a degree, but it has limitations.

Will blending paints just magically enhance my painting or is it overrated?
Hope i don't overheat your brains with my questions and stuff


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Well, blending and shading is worth it. But you need to learn to start watering down the paints and do multiple layers to get the effect that you are shooting for. Its not uncommon to do 7-10 layers to get a blend right. Also paint additives like drying retarder and flow aid will help on blending but this isn't the time for it.

You have skill and logically from what I see wetblending is the next step in your painting progression. I don't think you have hit the max of your potential, I see the fact that you have mastered the base steps and some of your line work is better then what I do.

Freehand, honestly if you can't draw then you can't do it. If you can draw then its the same concept. You can use templates but that is the extent of it.

Have to head back to work, will add more if someone else doesn't beat me to it.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

*Smacks oneself on forehead*

I just realised why one waters down paints.
To get less pigment per stroke, so the coverage is less prominent and so it's a natural progression from the colour underneath to the next.

How could i've been so stupid 
+rep for making me realise.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Your paint on the models you have up looks really smooth for having no water added, normally paint will appear thick. Also if you have brush strokes that are showing you cann used thin down paint to fill the valleys the brush left.


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## Scathainn (Feb 21, 2010)

Cheers for the advice Moo and djinn, +rep on the way


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