# How to kill Epidemius?



## Gold170492 (Feb 12, 2008)

I dont really care what army is because I've got mates who want him dead.

Ok back story is one of my mates has just started collecting Deamon (after collecting Tau and Orks) and he has slaughtred every thing Newport GW can throw at him.

His army is 

Epidemius (Hate Him) in a FULL unit of Plaguebearers

Another 2 Units of Plaguebearers

3 Deamon Princes

1 Great Unclean One

6 Nurglings

and thats all I remember (I think his DP is fully upgraded with wings and stuff)

So i want to know what Tactic you would use against this army

(If anyone doesnt know what Epidemius special rule is your lucky, if you want to know just ask)


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## Bloodspeaker (Mar 15, 2008)

Sorry mate it just can't be beat maybe mech lists can have some hope against it.

I have a suggestion for your mate though tell him to drop GUO and add Kugath and drop the nurglings and add more bearers.


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## Gold170492 (Feb 12, 2008)

Bloodspeaker said:


> Sorry mate it just can't be beat maybe mech lists can have some hope against it.
> 
> I have a suggestion for your mate though tell him to drop GUO and add Kugath and drop the nurglings and add more bearers.


Dude...your supposed to be on my side:cray: 
lol


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Epidaemus isnt actually all that tough to kill... but normally most people who use him will try to hide him away (so they dont instantly lose the tally effects). If he does come close he is best taken out in combat (although necrons will struggle with this a lord armed with a warscythe will have great fun- ignoring ALL saves is great against nurgle).
The funniest way I've ever killed Epi is with 4 SW wolf scouts... him and a unit of 8 plaguebearers getting their asses handed to them.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Those are good words from Bloodspeaker. Make sure he has Daemonic Gaze on his Princes and he will be lauging all the way home.

Wait, what?

Low AP Pie plates is what you want. Your wounding on 2's and if its AP2 or better he wont get his FnP. Then you realise just how useful a 5+ Inv save really is...

Remember the tally doesn't kick in until Epi himself is actually touching the board and will go away once the tally man is dead.


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## drummerholt1234 (May 27, 2009)

Concrete Hero is right High Strength (7+ preferable) and low AP blast template. If you have someone who runs Space Marines maybe a Librarian with Null Zone.


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## Gold170492 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hmm not sure if he has been against one of those... ill recommend it to a mate.

Any other ideas for different army's?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Fire Prisms/Fusion Guns/Bright Lances for Elddar all ignore FnP. RoF may be an issue trying to win with those.

That said, if the Eldar are being used well, then the Tallyman can count kills on one rotten hand, so it'll work out, eventually. Orks aren't worried by the Tallyman, they just throw bodies at him - he can have his 3+ FnP, because he'll need it son enough.
Chaos - Deep Strike Oblits, and Flamer them. More hits = more wounds = dead 'Bearers = Dead Epidemus. Dark Eldar are no more scared than Eldar, possibly less. Other Daemons? Charge. Tau? Missile Pods, Plasma Rifles. Charge with Kroot if necessary, or charge DPs. Necrons, just keep shooting. Witch Hunters, bring more Flamers. Daemon Hunters shouldn't be struggling - if so, same answer as Black Templars, more Land Raiders. All Marines could do with more Vindicators. Guard should have no issues, even Flashlight fire will down him.


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## Gold170492 (Feb 12, 2008)

If only things were that simple 

I think you forgot Nids mate


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Nids...charge again. Shoot if shooty, charge if not. He's pretty weak, even as Support Characters go - all you need to do is get in a few hits, and he's down for the count.


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

Here's how you fight deamons, with MORE DAEMONS MUHAHAHAHAHAHA...ahem, sorry about that. Anyway, if you can, 1 full unit of Bloodletters on the charge, S 5, I 5, WS 5. Oh dear 60 POWER WEAPON attacks (So no FNP save) hitting on 3's wounding on 4's. If the first round of combat doesn't wipe him out, most of his unit will be dead, and next turn him and the poor sods left will be dead, so no more Tally for you and the Bloodletter squad just got a 1/2 turn break from other things and they are free to rampage your Daemon enemy. Perfection. I've done it before and it works brilliantly. Not to mention all the Bloodcrushers, Bloodthirsters and all other nasties your imagination can come up with.


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## Lopspoon (Jun 23, 2009)

I do not know his rules but if allowed could you inform of this beasts abilitys


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## Gold170492 (Feb 12, 2008)

I agree he is basically any old PB but in a BIG unit of PB's.... thats why he is so hard to get to. :headbutt:


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

He is an IC, has WS4, T5 W3 and 5+inv 4+FNP saves...
any dedicated CC unit should easily wipe the floor with him and his unit so long as you are packing some powerweapons. Sure basic S3-4 guys without power weapons are almost wasting their time but a power fist or 2 will shread him, if the plague bearers dont have power weapons from the tally then they will also do very few wounds back to anything with even a half decent save.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

As a Chaos player, I suggest 3 Vindicators. 3 Demolisher Cannon shots from 24" should make short work of him. If that doesn't work, send in some Berzerkers with Champ and PF. If that doesn't work, send in 9 Oblits with plasma cannons. If that doesn't work, use the Lash Prince-Olbits/Vindies combo. Its an unholy thing to do, but you look desperate enough.
With Daemons, I'd take Deus Mortis' advice: Bloodletter spam. Alternatively, a pair of Bloodthirsters should handle him (sounds a little overkill though), or 3 Grinders with Phlegm -> melee. 

Whatever you intend to do, I suggest you try and stick to a ranged solution because the Nurgle player will obviously do his best to keep his Tallyman safe. Though if theres a something mean in among your CC ideas (like the Bloodletter spam) then its worth a try at least.


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## Bloodspeaker (Mar 15, 2008)

The problem with epidimius is reaching him i don't know how your friend plays but many players i have seen using him deepstrike him well out of the main battle and of course well out of melee so it's a bit hard to reach him if you are not DE or eldar or generally a very fast moving army.

As many have said before the best way to defeat him in my experience is pie plates or fast units in transports with as many power weapons as possible...


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

drummerholt1234 said:


> Concrete Hero is right High Strength (7+ preferable) and low AP blast template. If you have someone who runs Space Marines maybe a Librarian with Null Zone.


Null Zone?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Its a psychic power- all passed inv saves within 24" (?) of the libby must be re-rolled... makes those 5+inv saves of most daemons almost useless (1/9 instead of 1/3 passed). Doesn't help with FNP but non-nurgles will just get shreaded by any sort of wounds (flashlight death.. finally found).


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## Strange Dude (Jul 15, 2008)

Tim/Steve said:


> Its a psychic power- all passed inv saves within 24" (?) of the libby must be re-rolled... makes those 5+inv saves of most daemons almost useless (1/9 instead of 1/3 passed). Doesn't help with FNP but non-nurgles will just get shreaded by any sort of wounds (flashlight death.. finally found).


Yep Null Zone combined with sternguard and hellfire rounds should bring him down fairly quickly.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

For Tyranids, Carnifexes with Barbed Stranglers will destroy them.
Pie plates, AWAAAAAY!

But yeah, if they tend to deploy Epidemius away from the battle, have your obligatory winged Hive Tyrant move towards the centre of the board, and then charge him as soon as possible.
You'll wound on 3+ (probably), and their 4+ to wound won't matter, because you have a 3+ or 2+ save, and strike first.


Whatever you do though, keep light infantry AWAY from him!
He has Aura of Decay, any enemies within 6" of him in the shooting phase takes a S2 hit!


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## Gold170492 (Feb 12, 2008)

Ive just remebred something

He use's his Nurgulings as MC hunters.:biggrin:


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Gold170492 said:


> Ive just remebred something
> 
> He use's his Nurgulings as MC hunters.:biggrin:


Actually, that's debatable.
Nurglings, although _obviously_ followers of Nurgle, are not defined as such in the rules.


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## Gold170492 (Feb 12, 2008)

Gold170492 said:


> Ive just remebred something
> 
> He use's his Nurgulings as MC hunters.:biggrin:


I ment when the tally's up (nasty little buggers)


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

So did Winterous- he was questioning whether the tally affects them in the first place. If they arent marked out as being followers of nurgle (or having themark of nurgle or whatever the tally needs) then they wont be affected... this might be something that needs a FAQ to say whether RAI was for them t be in (as obvious followers of Nurgle) or being out (beneath his attention)... personally I just think its another case of the 'Perfect' codex being anything but.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> So did Winterous- he was questioning whether the tally affects them in the first place. If they arent marked out as being followers of nurgle (or having themark of nurgle or whatever the tally needs) then they wont be affected... this might be something that needs a FAQ to say whether RAI was for them t be in (as obvious followers of Nurgle) or being out (beneath his attention)... personally I just think its another case of the 'Perfect' codex being anything but.


Yeah, the rules for Epidemius (or whatever) are quite poorly written.
For a star there's the 'what exactly counts as a follower of Nurgle' thing; which, although plainly _obvious_, isn't clearly defined in the rules.
And then there's this little predicament.



> 20+ All attacks from followers of Nurgle ignore armour saves!


Now, this doesn't specify which _type_ of attacks.
As written, ANY attack from a FoN (follower of Nurgle) ignores armour saves, even shooting attacks.
This means that Aura of Decay becomes quite powerful when you have 20+ kills, as it's a 6" S2 AP2 death field.


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## Ferik (Nov 5, 2008)

I myself have a pure Nurgal army and I tend to struggle against vehicle heavy armies since I have minimal anti-tank (DP) also IG seem ideally equipped to deal with Nurgal due to the amount of fire power they can dish out + the master of the fleet which will slow down my reserves from comming in.

On a side note a SM Librarian with Null Zone is a serious headache for any Daemon player as is an DH Inquisitor with Mystics and Sanctuary.

As for the Tally man you have to eith DS or infitrate a unit or 2 to deal with especially seeing as he will deffinantly be well out of the fight and with a bodyguard as well.

Anyways my 2 bits.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Ferik said:


> On a side note a SM Librarian with Null Zone is a serious headache for any Daemon player.


It's great against Tzeenchi Daemons, but nowhere near as useful against anything else.
Nurgle still get their FNP save, and Slaanesh and Khorne don't have a good enough save to make much difference.


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## Ferik (Nov 5, 2008)

Winterous said:


> It's great against Tzeenchi Daemons, but nowhere near as useful against anything else.
> Nurgle still get their FNP save, and Slaanesh and Khorne don't have a good enough save to make much difference.


I don't think thats entirely true if you hit Nurgal with the apropriate AP to ignore their FNP then all they have is their invul as for the others if you wipe out the squad compleatly then I think that makes quite a differance.

The only problem being is that your relying on one model to make a differance and usually thats not a good idea well in my books at least :grin:


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

The Null thing is probably only moderately useful vs Daemons. Since Daemons can DS it means enemies probably only get 1 round of shooting before the brown stuff hits the fan. Daemons usually have a higher I than SM and more attacks. 
Khorne Bloodletters (basic troop) also all have power weapons, and Daemonettes (basic Slaanesh troops) have rending attacks, so there might not be many SMs left to make the Daemons take any saves.
So the Null thingy is probably only going to be useful for about 1-2 turns, after which most SMs should be dead (my 1.5k Daemon army ALL have power weapons, and several get to reroll failed to-wound rolls, for example).


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## Ferik (Nov 5, 2008)

I hear yeah there and totally agree which is why my marines are fully mobile (in rhinos or Raiders ) and I avoid assaulting like the plague (no pun intended... well maybe a little :biggrin especially seeing as marines have nothing that can compare to the assault capibilty of daemons it really comes down to deployment and strategy for marines at least for me.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

darklove said:


> The Null thing is probably only moderately useful vs Daemons. Since Daemons can DS it means enemies probably only get 1 round of shooting before the brown stuff hits the fan. Daemons usually have a higher I than SM and more attacks.
> Khorne Bloodletters (basic troop) also all have power weapons, and Daemonettes (basic Slaanesh troops) have rending attacks, so there might not be many SMs left to make the Daemons take any saves.
> So the Null thingy is probably only going to be useful for about 1-2 turns, after which most SMs should be dead (my 1.5k Daemon army ALL have power weapons, and several get to reroll failed to-wound rolls, for example).


I think you might say I dont quite agree with that- its very hard for daemons to DS in assault range (except daemonettes). They have to be within 12", cant scatter the wrong way and if they are 6-12" away then the enemy will probably just walk 6" back to get the extra turn of shooting.
Bloodletters/daemonettes that DS in RF range are probably pretty much toast (null zone will help but isnt really needed)... the ultimate evil is that only daemonettes have frag grenades, so a single tactical squad in cover would not only get to RF bloodletters if they DS in assault range but will also get to attack first in combat.

Im a fan of mobile marine armies, but often against daemons its just better to dig in and let them eat it.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Its obvious that you kill him with death duh....:so_happy:


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## deviant_cadaver (Sep 6, 2008)

Nids can take living ammo that will help with the high toughness. another option is drop the DP fast the just make him fallow you around the board while you shoot. with SnP you should be able to out run them.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

This may not apply directly to you, but as it turns out, Lash of Submission is _very_ effective at bringing Epi down.

You can lash him away from the rest of his unit and line them up behind him.

Then when you assault him, because of the independent character rules in assault, you can direct all your attacks straight on him. If you do this with a Prince as your platform for Lash you should be able to take him down no problem. Hitting on 3's wounding on 3's and him saving on 5's.



> another option is drop the DP fast the just make him fallow you around the board while you shoot. with SnP you should be able to out run them.


dc, I would _never_ try and chase someone around the board with Epi. He gets in cover and survives.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Concrete Hero said:


> This may not apply directly to you, but as it turns out, Lash of Submission is _very_ effective at bringing Epi down.
> 
> You can lash him away from the rest of his unit and line them up behind him.


I don't think you can do that.
ICs are treated as an upgrade character except in melee, so Lash would affect the whole unit, not just him.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

I think you've misunderstood me.

I don't mean take him out of the unit, I mean arrange it so he's right in front of you and his unit is in a line behind him.

Which is perfectly... do-able.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Concrete Hero said:


> I think you've misunderstood me.
> 
> I don't mean take him out of the unit, I mean arrange it so he's right in front of you and his unit is in a line behind him.
> 
> Which is perfectly... do-able.


Oh ok.
It's a bit tricky, because it doesn't say up to 2D6", it says move them 2D6".
So you'd need to like, fan the unit out a bit.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Its inconsequential. The Prince would blow Epi away even if the PB's were surrounding him


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Concrete Hero said:


> Its inconsequential. The Prince would blow Epi away even if the PB's were surrounding him


Fair enough I suppose.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

Pro Tip: To kill the Daemon named Epidemius shoot it until it dies


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Dreadnought or any walker for that matter will smash Epidemius, and any plague bearer body guards.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> Dreadnought or any walker for that matter will smash Epidemius, and any plague bearer body guards.


Problem is getting them to him.
He can just run away, and things can come in to get in your way if they need.


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## hells_fury (Apr 17, 2008)

sisters of battle dominion squad

8 sisters, 4 with bolters, 4 with flamers, veteran with power weapon and brazier of holy fire (one use flamethrower) palatine/canoness with a blessed weapon/ eviscrator, brazier of holy fire, book of st lucius and cloak of st aspria mounted in a rhino

rock up next too Epidemius,divine guidence act of faith. 6 flame throers covering as many models as possible, so if your lucky and u coverall 10 then thats 60 wounds there meaning 10 will become AP1 negate amour and FNP, followed up by 8 bolter shots making it another 1 more shot becoming AP1 so hes got 11 saves of 5+ on each model and then 2 more of 3+ saves from the AP5 wounds. chances are hell die.

if that doesnt kill him you have next turn to shoot some more or if he charges into CC then you have some power weapons to kills him off, all in all should be easy as ^^


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

hells_fury said:


> sisters of battle dominion squad
> 
> 8 sisters, 4 with bolters, 4 with flamers, veteran with power weapon and brazier of holy fire (one use flamethrower) palatine/canoness with a blessed weapon/ eviscrator, brazier of holy fire, book of st lucius and cloak of st aspria mounted in a rhino
> 
> ...


I dare you to calculate how much that costs.

Ultimately though, a squad in a transport is probably the best standard way of killing him.
Get close, dismount, flash light.

Individual armies would have better ways though.


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## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

It would cost around 360 or so. 

Nurgle Deamons are actually one of the lists that sisters aren't that great at beating. Exorcists are pretty good for it, but dominions are fine too with divine guidance. The problem is that point for point, we just have a hard time throwing out the firepower that is needed to bring down plaguebearers, who are as it turns out, designed to resist small arms fire.


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## hells_fury (Apr 17, 2008)

bit over pauly, its 329, not too bad for a sister squad, especially with considering its got the canoness in it, thats about 100 points there


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