# How to defeat the flying circus(?)



## stompzilla (Mar 8, 2007)

I've had a lot of VERY boring, drilling related lectures this week and as a result have turned my mind more and more to the problems we're all likely to face at this year's GT, if for no-other reason than to stop me cracking up completely. 

So with this in mind i present my guide to ending the flying circus. 

There are several things an army needs in order to do this successfully i believe. I'll go through these step by step and explain my reasoning. 

1) Bait/ expendable units. In Tau this tactic is known as the Kau'Yon, or patient hunter. It basically involves keeping your units, small, cheap and expendable but with plenty of redundancy built into the list. If the only targets available are cheap units that are going to die in 1 round of combat then harlies are going to have problems. Proper positioning is essential however. Each unit must be >6" apart so that no-consolidation is possible and the unit bunched up so that they can't strike the end of your unit killing 1 or 2. With any luck those fruity [email protected]@rds are going to die as soon as they've taken your bait. 

2) The ability to put lots of glances onto Av 12 skimmers. An obvious one this. You ned 9 glances on average to kill a falcon. It is worth noting however that this number will decrease as you remove weapons. A falcon with no weapons dies on a 4,5 or 6. These lists also contain very little firepower, so keeping the falcons glanced enables you to act with some measure of impunity - as the return fire you will recieve is likely to be negligable. If he wants to fire his falcons then he's going to have to hide for a turn, which is another turn you don't have harlies in your pants. 

3) Maneuverability. You must be able to capitalise on the advantage given to you by your bait units and any falcons that you manage to down. You'll need to get close to get past that fruity veil of tears and send the clowns O'Doom back to 1992 where thay should have stayed. You'll also need to be maneuverable enough to flee should things take an unexpected turn. The more time you have to glance falcons before the clowns come for you the better. 

4) The ability to misdirect. If you can land behind the wave of advancing falcons, you can greatly increase your chances of achieving no 2. You may also force the attack out of shape, and make it more ragged and singular. 1 Harlie falcon at a time is a hell of a lot easier to deal with than 3 at once. 

5) The ability to take out their few support units with a minimum of effort. these support units are not going to be big or expensive but will prove to be a pain in the ass. Vibrocannons stopping your tanks from shooting at falcons and aiding in objective 2, jetbikes charging a unit and holding up a unit that should be blasting harlies are all bad things. Fortunately, the Harlie/falcon combo is an expensive one and as a result these support units are likely to be easilly taken out if you put the effort in. If you can pull off point 1 well too, this may also leave said beard-monger with nothing but 3 constantly glanced falcons flying around, too scared to drop their cargo because there's no target of opportunity that will be worth the loss of over 160pts of harlies. At this point you have the minor win. 

6) When playing a list like this, your major focus should be on destruction of the danger to your army. Objectives are important still, however i'm sure we're all familiar with tales of 6 harlies destroying 600-700 pts of another's army. You can't capture objectives if you have no army left. 

Hope some of you guys found that helpful and educational. If any one has anything else to add, or even disagrees with some of my points above then please step forward and say so. I'd love to discuss this topic further.


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## kelvingreen (May 15, 2007)

Are Harlies really that broken in today's rules? Crikey. Does no one care about game balance over there?

This looks like a good strategy. I'd love to know how well it works in practice. Keep us posted.

EDIT: Maybe some army-specific tactics might be useful here too. ie, how would Orks best follow your strategy, or what's the best way for Necrons to do what you've outlined, etc.


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## anathema (Jan 24, 2007)

Stomp, you forum whore you! Harlies as such aren't as broken as some on the internet would have you believe (Mine have pretty much done as well as my Banhsees used to do in the way I use them, just with more fruity rules like Hit and Run being a bit more useful) but the Harlequin Falcon combo is undoubtedly extremely effective. I only use one lot of this, and consider 3 a bit filthy against a lot of armies.

However overspecialisation does breed weakness in this case and GT players need to find ways to exploit these. One of the oft-overlooked elements of GT army build is "Could I beat myself?". If you don't have the tools to beat a similar list to yours, its not a good all-round list. Harlie/Falcon spam lists would probably score bore draws against each other as they have little AT in most cases and what they do have is easily silenced (Falcons)


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## stompzilla (Mar 8, 2007)

:lol: 

I'm bored!


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

for imperial players, a culexus solves all problems;
assault the shadowseer, souldrain it successfully and if you've positioned your assassin properly, then the fight's over and the clowns are taking a Ld7 moral test...
or else you could just hide your assassin behind some nice fat cover and deny the harlies a solid area of ground as any psykers caught near it will again be forced to take a Ld test or leg it...

keep in mind as long you keep the culexus out of sight of any vehicles, any infantry will need to take a Ld test in order to shoot and/or assault the bugger...

cheers!


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## anathema (Jan 24, 2007)

experiment 626 said:


> for imperial players, a culexus solves all problems;
> assault the shadowseer, souldrain it successfully and if you've positioned your assassin properly, then the fight's over and the clowns are taking a Ld7 moral test...
> or else you could just hide your assassin behind some nice fat cover and deny the harlies a solid area of ground as any psykers caught near it will again be forced to take a Ld test or leg it...
> 
> ...


If the Culexus assaults the Harlequins it will be taking about 12-18 WS5 I6 rending attacks to the face. It won't get the chance to souldrain before being killed. Oh and the chances are that it would be the clowns assaulting the assassin, not the other way round. 

Now while I'm not too up on the Culexus rules, its definitely only available in Witch/Daemonhunters so is not really a viable general tactic. Players at tournament level will most likely go for the much more effective vs. almost everyone Eversor or Callidus. In fact the callidus could be much more effective if it can catch the clowns in the open with its mind flame and then shapes its charge well enough in the assault phase.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

anathema said:


> If the Culexus assaults the Harlequins it will be taking about 12-18 WS5 I6 rending attacks to the face. It won't get the chance to souldrain before being killed. Oh and the chances are that it would be the clowns assaulting the assassin, not the other way round.
> 
> Now while I'm not too up on the Culexus rules, its definitely only available in Witch/Daemonhunters so is not really a viable general tactic. Players at tournament level will most likely go for the much more effective vs. almost everyone Eversor or Callidus. In fact the callidus could be much more effective if it can catch the clowns in the open with its mind flame and then shapes its charge well enough in the assault phase.


luckily for our plucky pariah, his souldrain goes before _any_ blows are struck! (think of it as a special I11 type of attack) there's no saves of any kind either and the assassin can always ignore non-psyker models when assaulting and pick out the shadowseer...
as long as you're smart about moving him into assault, he should be able to suck out the shadowseer's lifeforce and thus end combat before it really begins as there will no longer be an models in base-to-base to continue on...
getting the drop on the clowns is the hard bit as it will require carefull deployment and guesstimation of ranges. still, as long as he starts the eldar turn in close proximinity to a psyker, the psyker must take a Ld test or leg it. (and conviently take their unit packing off home with them!)

any imperial army can take an assassin as an ally as long they also take the mandetory inquisitor lord & retinue. (as you must have an inquisitor present to take an assassin!)
an allied inquisitor lord w/psycannon or scourging is also a welcomed addition too as those both ignore invulnerable saves...

so if the clowns become the new 'ultiment abusive army of choice', then imperial players should spend the 200'ish pts to kit up on those 'ignore invulnerable save' weapons... (the culexus is simply a beast no matter who you face due to his soulless & etherium rules!)

cheers!


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## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

assault cannons solve all problems


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## stompzilla (Mar 8, 2007)

hahaha, Unfortunately not.


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## royemunson (Apr 9, 2007)

I have played a few games against harlies and the thing that worked best for me was heavy bolter attack bikes, you drive up nice and close and let rip you wont kill them all but they are going to get dropped beow half strength.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

Here's a challenge: A way for DA to beat this unit?

1) There are no bait units, DA units are so expensive you'd lose far more pts than they just for the hope of trapping them.

2) Manoueverability- very tough, Rhino's are coffins against multiple Str 6 shots. The Eldar will always be more mobile.


Any way for them to beat Space Clowns that doesn't involved your entire 1500pts army concentrating on one unit to the exclusion of the rest of the Eldar? Or the need to take non-DA units that aren't allowed in tournaments?


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

I played the clowns against Imp guards and they are quite fragile to shooting, even poor shooting with S3.

They have a 4+ inv save, so normally you will loos one for every two wounds.

With a toughness of 3 there are pretty much nothing that won't wound on at least 4+, heavy bolters and the likes of it (Tau comes to mind) will wound on a 2+.

So I think the best thing to do against clowns is to shoot them as soon as they come with in range and then sack a unit to hold them of and shoot again next turn.

It sounds easier than it is but it is possible.

For DA the biggest problem is as always the lack of heavy weapons in affordable squads and the lack of the ultimate Eldar killer the Librarian with familiar.

The problem with Harlequins is that they don’t come alone.


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

Shoot them?

With Veil (who doesn't take Veil) the average spotting distance is 14" with their average charge range 15-16".

But even that requires them to be stupid enough to walk into a gunline- most Space Clowns ride in a Skimmer of Indestructable Doom.

So, no, you shouldn't be able to shoot them unless your opponent is really bad, or they have already chewed through their points worth in close combat.


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## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Or unless you play properly. A well-placed unit can prevent their effective charge, and a single round of Rapid Fire from two squads of firepower will shatter them.


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## stompzilla (Mar 8, 2007)

No, Master J, pretty much has it right.

What the space clowns will do, when played right, is zoom up in an indestructable skimmer. Maneuver, so as to only contact 2-3 models beat them next reound, consolidate and move on.

I'm seeing a lot of posts where people seem to dismiss the flying circus. They are wrong. Seriously, this army is totally brutal when used by a pro (Like at a GT final - think tomatoes).

If you haven't seen it yet, then you need to find some better opponents.


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

Not saying they aren't nasty, but they aren't indestructible and neither their skimmer.
And if you give them a Falcon and that is the only thing you can give them then they will lack numbers.

And Stomp, in theory you are right, contact only 2-3 models and splat.
As easy as stalking falling back marines, can be done but in most of the cases wont work, so I say clowns is not the end all be all units. But it is still a scary unit.

And I made a mistake in my last post they do not have a 4+ inv save only have a 5+ inv;
so if shoot by a Imp guard squad (<12" away) you get 20 shoots that produce 10 hits of which 5 wounds and the clowns will only save 1-2 wounds, this gives you 3-4 dead clowns.

In a skimmer they will not charge until round three, as they will start round one moving in too strike, turn two disembarking and first in round three they will be able to assault. Might as well take them on foot and give the some more bodies.

If you guys are worried about clowns you should really dread the new Death Company, they have the same cheese set-up but a 3+ save and a 6+ “save everything when it goes south…”
And when you thought they made rhino-rushes impossible, they were just kidding you,
am I wrong but didn’t over-charged engine have a break down on 6+ rule?
Now they don’t any way and after what I heard they will cost 30pts to field as they do for Dark Angels, they even might be free for the DC!?!


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## anathema (Jan 24, 2007)

> And Stomp, in theory you are right, contact only 2-3 models and splat.
> As easy as stalking falling back marines, can be done but in most of the cases wont work, so I say clowns is not the end all be all units. But it is still a scary unit.


It does work extremely well actually. I've been doing that since I put them in my army and have had great success with that exact tactic. I'd even go as far to say that I value the Shadowseer for the plasma grenades more than Veil, as my harlies hardly ever get shot as they're never outside of combat in my opponents turn. Bouncing them around between units and using units as stepping stones is the most effective way to use them.



> In a skimmer they will not charge until round three, as they will start round one moving in too strike, turn two disembarking and first in round three they will be able to assault. Might as well take them on foot and give the some more bodies.


Like many people, you assume that they'll spend a turn in the open before charging. This doesn't happen. You can disembark and charge as long as the transport hasn't moved so if you leave a unit within 13-18" of a mounted Harlequin squad, there's a damn good chance they'll charge you straight out of the transport. I've had my Harlequins charge turn 2 in quite a few games as my opponent forgets that they're in the Falcon and moves too close.



> luckily for our plucky pariah, his souldrain goes before any blows are struck! (think of it as a special I11 type of attack) there's no saves of any kind either and the assassin can always ignore non-psyker models when assaulting and pick out the shadowseer...
> as long as you're smart about moving him into assault, he should be able to suck out the shadowseer's lifeforce and thus end combat before it really begins as there will no longer be an models in base-to-base to continue on...


Cheeky stuff! :lol: I didn't know that. However, once the Harlequins have lost the Shadowseer, they can hit and run and then charge you in their turn or just shoot the Culexus. The Shadowseer isn't the biggest problem in the Flying Circus, and spending 200 points to get rid of it isn't the most effective use of resources IMO. Still a nice little trick though!


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

Well this is true, and I forgot about the 24" move, I gotten used to play marines. But still the same when you disembark you cannot assault if the vehicle moved so you have to go straight for the enemy and hope for a good fleet move. But I see your point. But still risky too bring 6 guys in that close to the enemy. You really need three units or at least two with good CC capability to be a real threat.

I for one would say that a banshee squad would be equally bad or even worse to face, as they could take a wave serpent and max out at 10 models.

Actually if you play some Mathhammer you end up with:
Six clowns fully kitted with a falcon would end up killing ~7 marines if you roll 4-5 rending attacks. In this I only calculated the wounds the clowns would do not the falcon.

A banshee squad of 10 would kill the same amount of marines and totally ignore their armour.
And this squad would almost leave you with point to spare on a Dark reaper squad, you only need to raise like 10 pts or so. And yes the Banshees have a fancy ride of their own.


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## Fallen Angel (Dec 22, 2006)

Problem is you cant have holofields on a wave serpent and i for one would much rather face three wave serpents than one falcon!!


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## stompzilla (Mar 8, 2007)

I've seen 6 harlequins destroy an entire army before now. Not in isolated incidents either. Week after week against good players.

Imagine this scenario: Falcon drives up a flank 24" and is hidden by terrain and is 6" - 21" away from your army. You can't shoot it and even if you do, you need 9 glances to kill it. Next turn the harlies disembark, gaining nearly 3" of movement from the disembark move. The falcon then tank shocks their intended victims closer to the harlies, or shoots something. The harlies then mve 6" totally ignoring the cover. They then fleet up to 6" and charge another 6" and are on you. If you've left squads close together. They'll get as close as possible and maneuver into position to get as many into combat as possible, whilst closing the gap onto your next unit. After giving you a sever butt raping and wiping out your unit before you even get to swing, they consolidate into your next unit. Your guard army doesn't know it yet, but they're all dead. 

If your squads aren't close together, they'll adjust their movement accordingly so that only 1 harlie hits combat and gets the min no of models possible into it's kill zone. Likely, you'll be in combat in your turn, where the harlies have piled in and will then proceed to wipe out your unit. They are then free to consolidate, move 6", fleet and charge another 6" contacting your next uit. Meanwhile there is a whole eldar army shooting you to bits and you can't shoot the harlies because they are once again in combat.

If your units are spread thin and the harlies don't manage to get into combat a second time you'll struggle to kil them anyway because of the VOT. If they hit a unit and are stil stuck there after 2 turns of combat (Fearless troops say), they can hit and run at the end of your turn and then bounce into another, less able unit and kill it, or go back for more with the advantage of + 1 attack and S4 at I7.

Seriously, dude - fear the harlequins.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

anathema said:


> > luckily for our plucky pariah, his souldrain goes before any blows are struck! (think of it as a special I11 type of attack) there's no saves of any kind either and the assassin can always ignore non-psyker models when assaulting and pick out the shadowseer...
> > as long as you're smart about moving him into assault, he should be able to suck out the shadowseer's lifeforce and thus end combat before it really begins as there will no longer be an models in base-to-base to continue on...
> 
> 
> Cheeky stuff! :lol: I didn't know that. However, once the Harlequins have lost the Shadowseer, they can hit and run and then charge you in their turn or just shoot the Culexus. The Shadowseer isn't the biggest problem in the Flying Circus, and spending 200 points to get rid of it isn't the most effective use of resources IMO. Still a nice little trick though!


well, even once the shadow seer is gone, the clowns still need to pass a Ld check to shoot and/or assault the assassin... (that's his etherium kicking in!) without the seer, the clowns simply won't fall back as the psyker is obviously dead...
this is the main reason i love the little bugger so much! he's quite dirty with his Ld abilities because they even work against fearless units!

also the main bulk of the pts you'll spend for the assassin will be the assassin himself and the mandetory inquisitor lord w/psycannon or incinerator and/or scourging... each of those 3 weapons/psychic powers ignores invulnerable saves. as for the retinue, you can simply take a few familiars for cheap!

the real key to making it work is of corse careful deployment... if the infiltrate rules aren't in play, this ploy won't work as the clowns will deploy at least one or two units after the assassin is deployed... if infiltrate is being used though, you can hopefully find some place nice and dark to hid the assassin out of sight yet fairly central on the table... yes you'll lose one flank, but as long as you can keep the culexus hidden untill the clowns get in range, he'll do a real number on them! (if you get him within 6" then the clowns are royally screwed in their turn as they take thoseLd7 tests or run!)

cheers!


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

“Seriously, dude - fear the harlequins.”

Not saying I don't, but then again they are hard but not unbeatable.
And you pay a lot for them to have the abilities they have, and they only have two transportation options foot slog or ride a falcon.

Another thing I noticed when playing with clowns is that if you have a terrible first turn in the assault, none to few rending attacks and a streak of good saves from the opponent, then if you stay in there the clowns weakness starts to show, the lack of strength and the poor save.
You need the assault momentum given by the extra attacks and the +1 S from furious charge. So after first round you better break and run, it’s not a good option to stay and fight.

Units like Banshees compensate for the lack of strength with power weapons.

But the clowns are evil no doubt…


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

stitch's dirty, filthy anti-clown assault unit;
inquisitor lord w/holocaust
3x familiars
total; 83pts

keep the lord behind the familiars so he can't be engaged. line him up like so if you have to;
--------- familiar
familiar inq lord familiar
as he's not in base-to-base contact, the inq lord cannot be targeted. the clowns will of corse kill the familars. now your lord can holocaust those silly clowns and drop a S5 pie-plate on them! (my record so far is frying 6 of 8 clowns in one go!)

cheers!


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Units like bikes and jetbikes could prove really useful for dealing with the clowns. Use them to block the exit of the falcon and then you guarentee they can't assault in that turn. If they are running there own hatch blocker i.e. 3 jetbikes engage them in combat.

Also having nice big units will help. Harlies are pretty vulnerable in general, so if you either get a round of shooting off, or get attacks back then you should do we'll against them. the whole unit on the charge is likely to kill 4/5 marines, obviously on a good turn even more. You need to make sure you are striking back and doing them some damage. Having a mechanised army can help. they are unlikely to do much damge if your army is mounted up.

One thing to also make sure of is that your opp is doing his movement correctly. No extra inch or 2 on the falcons movement. It is a very cumbersome model to disembark from, as there is only the single rear exit. that means they will often be disembarking to the rear of the tank, giving you those prescious extra inches.

You need plenty of mid/high str firepower to keep the armies firepower contained. If those serpents can't shoot and the prism's are hiding everyturn, you can keep the army reasonably intact for dealing with the falcon harlie situation.


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## Lord Alkmie (Jan 10, 2007)

Jupp I also think that overcome and concur is the melody.
If you let them assault they will be nasty as H**L, but if you bring it to them then it is another thing completely.

I also have to correct Jigplums on the average kills; they tend to kill 6-7 marines if every thing goes by the book. So they are quite capable to off the whole unit, even if the unit are at full strength. Most likely they will not though.
As a comparison they will most likely kill 8-9 Fire warriors, so even these not too fierce warriors stand a chance and will most likely drag one clown with them in the process.

So while they are nasty I think the biggest problem is the sheer terror they extract on the mind of the opponent, while you get all worked up on the clowns other things pass ever so slowly through the net.

Fast mobile counter-assault units are the key: bikes, assault marines and jet-bikes come to mind. Hit them with a round of shooting if possible and assault the remaining clowns.
Invulnerable saves is good so you could sneak past some of the rending attacks, storm shield would do it nicely and combat shield would do.

As for DA I can recommend the Lion’s helm the whole unit gets a nice 4+ save to the counter assault unit and Ravenwing to hunt them mid-field and to help in the counter assault.


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## Ultima (Jun 16, 2007)

Ok I'l post my view on how to beat the evil circus of death:

1. Obviously, killing the damn falcon! On average it takes about 9 glancing hits. Therefore mid strength weapons with lots of shots seem to be the best way to get somewhere near that amount. Lascannons, rail guns etc are all very well however, you can only get 1 glance per shot and to be honest it doesnt take much maths to know it will take forever to get glancing hits with just weapons like that. My estimation are guns like the assault cannon, autocannon. gause cannon, missile pods and the ion cannon are the best way as you are more likely to glance it. Penetrating post first turn is absolutely impossible so just think about reaching 12.

2. Avoiding the charge. The firepower to kill the falcon MUST be able to move. Autocannon havocs for example are a nasty unit but they are essentially a gun platform that a 24 inch moving vehicle is really not going to find that hard to stay away from. Not only that once a falcon is parked and ready to drop off the harlies for their charge you have to be able to run away! discluding the 2inch jump they get from disembarking if you are within 13-18 inches of the harlies then for 99% of units in the game that means your dead. Therefore being able to move away from the falcon to stop the charge and still be able to shoot things is essential. Alternatively if you can keep running from the falcons while killing everythingelse in the enemy army you will still have a minor victory which in a GT army is all that matters.

3. Block the exit. The falcon has 1 exit point and has to wait a turn before the harlequins can wreck havoc. Therefore anything fast has time to park infront of the exit point which prevents the disembarking and thus the charge.

4. Leaving the harlies stranded. Harlequind are of course beastly in combat. Therefore if your force is purely firepower orientated such as tau for example. Make sure the harlequins can not manipulate you by keeping only a few of the models in your unit in the killzone. Otherwise they will do enough to win combat, and next turn bundle in and kill you and then move on. Therefore take lots of small units so that when the harlies come out they will definitly wipe out/break the unit and you can then shoot the living daylights out of them next turn obviously this tactic can depend on what army you are using.

5. Counter assault. This also obviously largely depends on what army you are using. If you can invest in a unit that can actually beat the harlequins in combat. This means of course you can kill them in combat which means the harlequins are no where near as much of a threat. the examples i can think of are wyches, howling banshees and possibly genestealers if they get the charge.


To be honest the circus is utter filth. Anyone who sets their hopes on qualifying in the heats simply MUST think of how their army can deal with them because the majority of armies out there simply have no answer to the flying circus trick unless they have actually thought out a plan previously because the trick is close to fool proof. The harlequins have extraordinary killing power combined with filthily fast initiative making them able to defeat 99% of all units in the game and they are inside a fast moving transport that on average takes 9 rolls on the damage table to down! Just one harlequin unit if used like a pro can quite easily destroy your entire army, to be honest, one harlequin unit used by an utter novice can destroy your entire army. Therfore you must take them into account.


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## ender556 (May 23, 2007)

Whats all this fuss about harlequins?

The max the falcons can carry is 18 and that costs a BUCKET LOAD of points. Even a few spine gaunts in cover can take down 1 or 2 of them harlies. 

In fact as a nid player I would gladly welcome the harlies to dance with my critters. Its like food coming to me.


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## anathema (Jan 24, 2007)

ender556 said:


> Whats all this fuss about harlequins?
> 
> The max the falcons can carry is 18 and that costs a BUCKET LOAD of points. Even a few spine gaunts in cover can take down 1 or 2 of them harlies.
> 
> In fact as a nid player I would gladly welcome the harlies to dance with my critters. Its like food coming to me.


18 Harlequins costs 486 points, 3 Falcons with all the jazz is around 600-660 points. Say about 1100. Which is a lot. However thats 72 S4 rending attacks going first on the charge. Which is also a lot. 
That's also about 600-odd points which will be pretty hard for you to kill.

Swarm nids are one of the armies that the Circus is least good against, but a good player will soften up the big point stuff like fexes and tyrants then whittle down the broods before throwing the Harlies in on a big suicide 'kill lots of points of stuff and hold them up' rush, probably against TMC's first, then gaunts. The Falcons then go for objectives and go for the minor win.


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## ender556 (May 23, 2007)

This is precisely what I mean. 660 points of the army wont be shooting because its super easy to stun 3 falcons a turn, come on AV12?

486 points of harlies is still only 18 bodies and they have to exit a stationary falcon at least 18 inches next to my nids. I would just surround it with gaunts.

So with 660 points stunned and about 486 points in transports or soon to be locked in combat that leaves what? 400 pts of an eldar army left shooting at me?

Does not sound like too bad a deal.

Keep in mind that if by chance one of those falcons is immobilized or goes down its really good game.

Its a strong list I admit, but this cheese calling, etc. is a bit much.


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## anathema (Jan 24, 2007)

> This is precisely what I mean. 660 points of the army wont be shooting because its super easy to stun 3 falcons a turn, come on AV12?
> 
> 486 points of harlies is still only 18 bodies and they have to exit a stationary falcon at least 18 inches next to my nids. I would just surround it with gaunts.


So you have 3-5 TMC's and still have points to field enough gaunts to block the exits in 1500? With their BS 3 its going to take 3 gunfexes at least to glance 3 Falcons and thats assuming that theycan see them. You'll need to have about 4-5 to guarantee glancing the 2 you can see, and then you're into godzilla territory which is what the Harlequins want.

Basically you'll either have enough fexes to silence the Falcons, in which case you're godzilla, or the Falcons can fly around without much fear after they take out your Anti-tank and charge the Harlequins in on their terms. Don't forget that there are other units. You can fit 2 units of Rangers and a Farseer in there as well, which will also cause problems to TMC's. 

Its not an unbeatable list, but its extremely handy against MEQ's etc. and has a lot of power to even take on hordes also. The only army I can forsee it having some problems against are rokkit horde Orks where the return attacks will cause big problems or infiltrating armies that get first turn and kill the Falcons. There may be others, but its strong. 

Gamma missions may be some people's saviour at the GT.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

thats the only thing that puts me off with a Skimmer heavy eldar list for the GT, you are never very sure of what cover you will get and if you don't get first turn in gamma it could be a short game. I played a practice game last year and used 3 falcons and let my opp go first to see how well it would hold up. All 3 falcons were destroyed or immobilised in the first turn


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## don_mondo (Jan 28, 2007)

Lord Alkmie said:


> If you guys are worried about clowns you should really dread the new Death Company, they have the same cheese set-up but a 3+ save and a 6+ “save everything when it goes south…”
> And when you thought they made rhino-rushes impossible, they were just kidding you,
> am I wrong but didn’t over-charged engine have a break down on 6+ rule?
> Now they don’t any way and after what I heard they will cost 30pts to field as they do for Dark Angels, they even might be free for the DC!?!


Actually it's a 3+ save and Feel No Pain. And you can only have one unit of them, max 10 models (or possibly 14, waiting on the FAQ). Course, there's no problems shooting at the Dath Company.......
And no, BA cannot rhino rush, the Assault Vehicle upgrade is only available on Land Raider variants. So while they can move forward 18" in the rhino, they cannot do so and disembark and assault. So you will get to shoot at that rhino and potentially entangle them. 
And yes, Over Charged engines can stall when you try to use them, on a 1 now instead of a 6. Unfortunately, it only lasts one turn, they're not immobilized by it any more. 
BA rhinos are 40 points. And no, DC doesn't get a free rhino, they have to pay the points for it (or a drop pod). In fact, they have to buy their jump packs now if they want them.

So I would worry more about Harlies in a Falcon than BA DC, but then, I don't worry much about Harlies........ I've faced them several times with my IG and they've never amounted to much.


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