# Erebus and Kor Phaeron



## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

Another random thought in regards to 40K fluff the and finished ''know no fear'' a month ago.

In your opinion who was the more powerful in influence, raw power, knowledge and favor in the warp.

The first I would say Erebus due to turning Horus but the later I'm not sure that's why I'm asking my fellow heretics

Cheers

P.S Haven't posted for a while but that doesn't mean I don't watch and read whats going on in here lol. :so_happy:


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## TechPr1est (Nov 6, 2011)

i havnt read know no fear but from reading the first heretic erebus seems to be the wise and kor phaeron the guy you dont want to mess with


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

I would say Erebus, big Kor is more brutish in his use of the dark powers, but overall I think Erebus has a better knowledge and definite favour of the Gods, Kors status derives mainly from his early association with Lorgar. Erebus is definitely the nore influential in-fact he is just a manipulative bastard


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Presuming you mean in M41, the Word Bearers series...



...partly revolves around a plot by Kor Phaeron to challenge what he sees as Erebus' rising influence over the Legion. Whilst Erebus states that such internal power struggles between himself and the Master of Faith are commonplace in Lorgar's absence, but ultimately meaningless.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I don't really know.

Kor Phaeron had the cool factor based off his appearance in the First Heretic and his awesome smoke ight ability but then he got his heart torn out by Guillimanand ran off on his ship.

Then again Erebus is more sneaky and has many tricks up his sleeve like his own personal assassin and the fact he has awesome scripture on his head. However he then got his head skinned by Horus for trying to meddle in one too many of his plans.

So in short I think both of them are tools.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

When did heart skinned?
I think Erebus is the one with the most favour from the gods, kor phaeron failed when it came to guilliman, the reason he failed is because of jealousy, due the fact erebus turned Horus but he hadn't turned anyone.
As far as I am aware erebus has never gotten whopped, and erebus seems overall far more knowledgeable, patient and cunning than kor phaeron.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Well Kor Phaeron poisoned Lorgar's mind, it was him whom instructed the Primarch on Colchis all the way from the beginning. Erebus was KP's apprentice.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

I thought someone would say that, but let's be serious, he was always poisoned, the most corrupted from the onset by chaos and was always a failure, lorgar falling was inevitable, his beliefs and principles are in certain ways the polar opposites of the "then" emepror and the "then" imperial truth, if ou read aurelian, the demon ingethel states that out of all the primarchs, Lorgars pod was damaged the most and he imbued with the bulk of chaos's mutating power.

Throught the heresy Erebus lead the way, kor phaeron may have been his tutor, but in the end kor was still eclipsed by his pupil, I think also the fact that Erebus is an astartes and kor is just an augmented human also plays a part.

And to reiterate a point, kor failed to kill Guilliman due to his own insecurities and jealousy, Erebus however in that specific part of the heresy preformed admirably and actually succeeded in his role.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Kor Phaeron, without doubt. It was _his_ Heresy. Lorgar was swayed from the Emperor's side because Kor Phaeron couldn't bear the idea that someone else could take his son away and then take his place.
Kor Phaeron was a leader on Colchis who sided with Lorgar because he knew a winner when he saw one. But then the Emperor comes along and suddenly Kor is sidelined; _his_ visions, _his_plans, _his_ desires, all dust at the whims of the Emepror. But Kor does have one advantage. he is Lorgar's father-figure from his earliest memories. He knows that Lorgar is easily lead- show him power that he feels is huge enough and Lorgar will dedicate himself to it, the perfect Prophet and Proselyte. Kor uses his influence to widen the gap, a gap caused by the Emperor's rejection of his diefic worship. 
Then, knowing the old ways of Colchis and the power that may be rested from the old gods, Kor works with erebus to foment the Heresy. when Lorgar qualis and doubts it is his father, a father who is contemptous of his son, who keeps him going. Later events may make Lorgar the undisputed master and Kor Phaeron an acolyte in all but name (and the ability to smush anyone who might mention this), but it was Kor who caused the Imperium to fall from the plannedperfection to what it is now. Kor Phaeron defied the plans of a near-god and caused him to be cast down.
Once Erebus does something like that, then maybe Kor can worry. Although, that being said, if a near-god can fall, so can a Dark Cardinal.

GFP


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## Xisor (Oct 1, 2011)

First of all: I don't know.
Second of all: I loved the expansion KNF gave to them.
Thirdly: I'd be extremely keen to see some Heresy stories (or indeed other 40k stories) revolving around one of these two.

Kor Phaeron has been highlighted as a really interesting, enigmatic character here. Well, perhaps not interesting as a character in a literary sense, but in an imaginative sense he captures a peculiar place in 40k: he's human, largely. Even before becoming a post-human (though, notably, not an Astartes Legionary), Kor Phaeron has already overseen the tutelage of Lorgar and harnessed him. He slipped up for a few decades when the Emperor intervened, but ultimately Lorgar came back to Kor Phaeron's truth.

In a manner, Kor Phaeron achieves the most of any individual, any... mortal. He's almost like Nagash. He transcends his humanity, his mortality, but... is he a daemon prince? What does he become? Has he forsaken himself? Sold his soul to Chaos? Been tricked, duped?

I think the answers and ways to answer those questions are extremely intriguing. I can't say one way or another, but getting to the heart, or even just loosely circling them... very much intriguing.

If Erebus is an outright villain, I hate (and, err, love) to speculate on what Kor Phaeron is.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Xisor said:


> First of all: I don't know.
> Second of all: I loved the expansion KNF gave to them.
> Thirdly: I'd be extremely keen to see some Heresy stories (or indeed other 40k stories) revolving around one of these two.
> 
> ...



Youd want to read the Word Bearers trillogy then, it gives some insights onto what KP and Erebus is up to in the 41th millenium.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

What I would like to see is a series of books to explain how Erebus came to even know of the gods true existance. I believe his story will probably be even more interesting than Lorgar's.


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## nate187 (Feb 2, 2009)

1+ COTE I had forgot about that series of book and paragraph.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

How did Kor Phaeron even survive that, btw? He's not even an Astartes! He's just an augmented human...


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

SoulGazer said:


> How did Kor Phaeron even survive that, btw? He's not even an Astartes! He's just an augmented human...


Chaos Magics and the Favor of the gods = Some of the finest plot armor.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Kor Phaeron, without doubt. It was _his_ Heresy. Lorgar was swayed from the Emperor's side because Kor Phaeron couldn't bear the idea that someone else could take his son away and then take his place.
> Kor Phaeron was a leader on Colchis who sided with Lorgar because he knew a winner when he saw one. But then the Emperor comes along and suddenly Kor is sidelined; _his_ visions, _his_plans, _his_ desires, all dust at the whims of the Emepror. But Kor does have one advantage. he is Lorgar's father-figure from his earliest memories. He knows that Lorgar is easily lead- show him power that he feels is huge enough and Lorgar will dedicate himself to it, the perfect Prophet and Proselyte. Kor uses his influence to widen the gap, a gap caused by the Emperor's rejection of his diefic worship.
> Then, knowing the old ways of Colchis and the power that may be rested from the old gods, Kor works with erebus to foment the Heresy. when Lorgar qualis and doubts it is his father, a father who is contemptous of his son, who keeps him going. Later events may make Lorgar the undisputed master and Kor Phaeron an acolyte in all but name (and the ability to smush anyone who might mention this), but it was Kor who caused the Imperium to fall from the plannedperfection to what it is now. Kor Phaeron defied the plans of a near-god and caused him to be cast down.
> Once Erebus does something like that, then maybe Kor can worry. Although, that being said, if a near-god can fall, so can a Dark Cardinal.
> ...


Erebus made Horus fall, like I said and explained in my previous post lorgar was always going to fall, you said it yourself "easily lead", lorgar isn't a undisputed master, he is viewed by his brothers as a fool and as I said in my previous post, a failure both before and after the heresy.
Kor never master mined anything, it was all chaos's doing, lorgar was corrupt from the onset, kor just took advantage of that fact.
Erebus succeeded in his goals in the war with the ultramarines, kor failed, Erebus played a role in turning arguably the greatest primarch, kor influenced an already corrupt and failure of a primarch.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

Brother Lucian said:


> Chaos Magics and the Favor of the gods = Some of the finest plot armor.


Hah! Good point. :gimmefive:



Lost&Damned said:


> ...lorgar isn't a undisputed master, he is viewed by his brothers as a fool and as I said in my previous post, a failure both before and after the heresy.


_Aurelian_ would like a word with you. He certainly doesn't sound like a failure to me once he fully accepts Chaos.



Kor Phaeron is just a tool of Chaos to get Lorgar to go to the Eye. After that, it was all Lorgar and Erebus. I really don't think Kor Phaeron is useful at all anymore and I fully expect Lorgar to pull a Fulgrim/Lion and just execute him instantly when he gets up from his nap, er, meditation. Instagibbing established characters seems to be the new thing for BL.


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