# Medusa and Colossus



## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Just wondering what people think of these two options:

What do people think of the colossus? I was thinking of replacing my Banewolf with a colossus, S6 and Ap3 with indirect fire and the long range seem to be far more useful in terms of AI, the Medusa seems to be a great and powerful AT option.

I was thinking of replacing the Executioner with two colossus tanks and my vanquisher with two Medusas.

This would mean dropping a vanquisher, executioner and banewolf in exchange for 3 medusas and two colossus sieg mortars or similar. The armour values wouldn't be as high but the damage output would be significantly larger.....


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

The Colossus is awesome, the ultimate MEQ killer, 2+ to wound, ignores both armour and cover saves.

Medusas are powerful, but they aren't a tank remember, they're an obscenely good gun on a fairly fragile mount, 1 shot can wipe out a Terminator squad, but Terminators can also kill Medusas easily.
If you do take a unit of 2 or 3 however, take one of them with the anti-armour shells, very powerful.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

When it comes to Colossi, you really need to take them in pairs to have a hope in hell of hitting anything. Since the Colossus can't fire directly (according to the Imperial Guard Codex) you'll never be able to subtract your BS from the distance scattered, making it an extremely inaccurate gun. Taking two in a single unit allows you to use the barrage rules which gives you a higher chance of tagging something vital.

I'm not a big fan of the Medusa. It reminds me a bit of a Vindicator or something - low armor with an extremely powerful but short ranged gun. If you ever decide to take one, be sure to give it the upgrade that negates its Open Topped nature to make it that little bit more survivable.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> When it comes to Colossi, you really need to take them in pairs to have a hope in hell of hitting anything. Since the Colossus can't fire directly (according to the Imperial Guard Codex) you'll never be able to subtract your BS from the distance scattered, making it an extremely inaccurate gun. Taking two in a single unit allows you to use the barrage rules which gives you a higher chance of tagging something vital.


Actually you can, so long as you have LOS, you can still subtract BS


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Actually you can, so long as you have LOS, you can still subtract BS


Yeah, direct fire just removes the Barrage rules from the shot.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Actually you can, so long as you have LOS, you can still subtract BS





Winterous said:


> Yeah, direct fire just removes the Barrage rules from the shot.


Fair enough. It's not often I learn something new about the rules - thanks for pointing this out, guys.

Katie D


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

No problems Katie, I only just got pointed out to me that area terrain doesn't work for Montrous Creatures.... so I've been claiming many saved wounds :grin: Not that I'd claim cover from rubble, mostly forects/ruins, which I could have gotten 50% obscurity if I tried.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Gotta keep in mind the minimum range of the Colossus; can be a huge disadvantage on 4'x4' tables. 

Especially when your opponent is drop-podding Space Wolves :cray:


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## fuzzawakka (Nov 16, 2008)

Can you explain to me how you can subtract the bs when shooting the colossus. As I use the colossus in most of my IG games I would really appreciate it  It says "a colossus siege mortar cannot fire directly " Sooo you can fire indirectly and still subtract the bs as longa s you see the target? How is that any differant then a basilisk medusa or griffon then? BTW I really hope your right I just need to understand the rules better so I can explain it to others when they cry foul


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## ItsPug (Apr 5, 2009)

Its no different from a griffon as that too must fire indirectly, and a medusa can only fire directly.

But a bassie can fire a direct shot and ignore the barrage rules.

These are...
Vehicle must remain stationary to fire
Subject to minimum range (in all cases ordnance barrage have a min range IIRC)
No need for LOS but if you have it you can subtract BS from scatter
Cover is worked out from the centre of the blast, not from the direction of the firing model.
Causes a pinning test at -1

Think thats it but someoneelse will chime in if I've forgotten anything


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

That's how I work it out also....although I don't use Bassies. Medusas and Collossus(es) I do use, and in pairs...no need for 3 as it uses up extra points and just compounds the whole squadroning issue imo.

Sure the Collossus's minimum range can be a bugger but it's still less than a Bassie's, and negating Cover Saves in 5th Ed is a great benefit.

I take Medusas with BB's and Enclosed Compartment to improve the killiness (str10 is great against MEQ/MC's) and survivability, but the best way to ensure (hopefully) that your Artillery hangs around for a few turns is to field an Inq/2 Mystics Retinue nearby so that any enemy DS'ers hoping to destroy them end up on the receiving end of some decent weaponry themselves.


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## fuzzawakka (Nov 16, 2008)

I still dont see where it says that you can use your bs to reduce scatter when you are firing inderectly. Can you point out a page? Also where does it say that you take a pinning test with -1 leadership?


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

fuzzawakka said:


> I still dont see where it says that you can use your bs to reduce scatter when you are firing inderectly. Can you point out a page? Also where does it say that you take a pinning test with -1 leadership?


page 58 under 'Ordnance Barrage Weapons'....pinning part is at the bottom of the 4th Paragraph.

Actually the BS isn't used when firing an Ordnance Weapon indirectly...it scatters the full 2D6.....same paragraph.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

fuzzawakka said:


> I still dont see where it says that you can use your bs to reduce scatter when you are firing inderectly. Can you point out a page? Also where does it say that you take a pinning test with -1 leadership?


Page 32, third paragraph.
They use all the rules for a regular Blast weapon, with a few exceptions.

Page 32, fourth dot point.
It specifically mentions the BS thing.


For the -1 Ld thing, that's only if you're using an Ordnance Barrage weapon, which is on page 58, right side.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Page 32 of the BRB.

The reduction of the BS from the scatter in LOS comes from the fact that Barrage weapons follow the rules for Blast weapons, except for the changes on page 32. One of these is preventing the reduction of BS from scatter if you do not have LOS. If you have LOS, you ignore that bit and revert to the normal blast rules, which state you may reduce your scatter by your BS.


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## fuzzawakka (Nov 16, 2008)

Thats very kool with the -1 modifyer i like the collosus even more. I think i will like it even more if its really true about the -bs w/los .

The one thing that i still dont understand is it says it always
fires inderectly so what else does that mean besides always scatters full 2d6


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

fuzzawakka said:


> The one thing that i still dont understand is it says it always fires inderectly so what else does that mean besides always scatters full 2d6


Firing indirectly is just a way of saying it fires as a Barrage weapon.
Ordnance Barrage weapons have the option of firing as either an Ordnance Barrage, or just an Ordnance weapon, unless specified otherwise.

If they fire as a Barrage, they follow all the rules for Barrage weapons.
If they fire as an Ordnance weapon, they follow all the rules for a Blast weapon.

Not having LOS isn't the same thing as indirect, indirect mean that it's arcing over the battlefield, but you can still aim it if you can see them.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Always indirect means that it can't shoot under its minimum range (unlike those that can swap to direct to avoid it) and that cover is always taken from the centre of the template, and side armour for directly hit vehicles.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Always indirect means that it can't shoot under its minimum range (unlike those that can swap to direct to avoid it) and that cover is always taken from the centre of the template, and side armour for directly hit vehicles.


Or, put more simply, it always fires as a Barrage weapon.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

I was explaining what barrage effectively means. Oh, and if it can only fire indirectly, remember, if you have LOS you don't scatter.

So the differences I stated above are the only options a non-indirect only weapon has that a indirect only one doesn't.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> I was explaining what barrage effectively means. Oh, and if it can only fire indirectly, remember, if you have LOS you don't scatter.


Er, wha..?



Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> So the differences I stated above are the only options a non-indirect only weapon has that a indirect only one doesn't.


In addition, it causes Pinning tests (in this case at -1 Ld), and when multiple Barrage shots are being fired by the same unit, you use the rules for Multiple Barrage.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

>_< 

Thanks for pointing that out Winterous, I've written it so much you think I'd be ableto type it right without looking.


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