# Salamanders vs Ultramarines in age of darkness? :S



## Longfang1234 (Jan 22, 2011)

im sure that when reading Rules Of Engagement, there is a battle where the marine revus or reman or something is fighting a traitor contigent of salamanders? is this just a wargame to test the new codex? or are perhaps the ultramarines traitor? confusing.


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## space cowboy (Apr 3, 2009)

Virtually the whole story was about a wargame to test the Codex. I got that Guilliman was testing the Codex in the guise of what would happen once the Imperium fell. It seemed like Guilliman is planning on the Emperor being overthrown by Horus, other legions switching sides once that happens, and the Ultramarines having to defend their empire (Imperium Secondus or whatever) against Horus's arrayed armies.


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## Longfang1234 (Jan 22, 2011)

ahh i see cheers man that helps alot. 

I suspect that they simply pretended that they were infact Salamander soldiers then? possibly the battles against world eaters and sons of horus are infact real battles? where as the battle against the salamanders was simply a projection or enemy astartes labelled as salamander inside their helmet targetting system. very interesting. 

its interesting to think that maybe the ultramarines infact engineered the outcome of the heresy to better themselves in standing afterwards. this series is getting sneakier and sneakier!


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## space cowboy (Apr 3, 2009)

The fights against the World Eaters and Sons of Horus are all part of the war game. If you go back and read the story, they never actually kill anyone, just the indicator in the helmet blinks out. Nothing is ever mentioned about blood splashing or tanks exploding, it is all just fake kills. You will also note that not all Ultramarine companies are present for a fight that has come to Ultramar. The idea is to make us understand, after the fact, that the 'traitors' were being played by other Ultramarines.


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## Longfang1234 (Jan 22, 2011)

aw okay yeah that makes sense. I thought that but wasn't too sure and couldn't be ersed reading it all again. Cheers though. That makes a lot more sense now.


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## Black Templar Chaplain (May 25, 2011)

Also (this is to my knowledge), the Ultramarines only had to defend their empire against the near entirety of the Word Bearers Legion due to the animosity from the "kneeling legion" incident. That is also talked about in 'Battle for the Abyss'. 

Basically after Isstvan V the Word bearers sent like 90% of their legion to attack Ultramar. Correct me if I'm wrong but the rest of the traitors (barring the Alpha Legion who had to waylay the Space Wolves from reaching Terra) were at the siege of Terra. The Word Bearers alone kept the Ultramarines out of the fight with their numbers (the Word Bearers were the second largest legion and ultras were the largest).

So yes, these were war games since the Salamanders were loyal and didn't have the strength to fight anyone after Isstvan V.


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## Black Templar Chaplain (May 25, 2011)

As an addendum to my post though, it is kind of odd that the war games were based on Calth and Prandium which were the hardest hit worlds right? Might just be that way to make it an interesting read/make you draw your own conclusions lol


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Black Templar Chaplain said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but the rest of the traitors (barring the Alpha Legion who had to waylay the Space Wolves from reaching Terra) were at the siege of Terra.


And the Night Lords who were engaged with the Dark Angels (among other things) in the galactic east.

(although having said that ADB has mentioned in _Soul Hunter_ and _Blood Reaver_ that at least some contingents of Night Lords were present at the Siege of Terra).



Black Templar Chaplain said:


> The Word Bearers alone kept the Ultramarines out of the fight with their numbers (the Word Bearers were the second largest legion and ultras were the largest).


Well according to _Rules of Engagement_ the Ultramarines willingly remained absent from the Siege of Terra, the Word Bearers didn't manage to achieve their objective at Calth.



Black Templar Chaplain said:


> So yes, these were war games since the Salamanders were loyal and didn't have the strength to fight anyone after Isstvan V.


In regards to the Salamanders, as someone else has said. As it was all just wargames the inclusion of the Salamanders was probably just preparing for the worst.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> And the Night Lords who were engaged with the Dark Angels (among other things) in the galactic east.
> 
> (although having said that ADB has mentioned in _Soul Hunter_ and _Blood Reaver_ that at least some contingents of Night Lords were present at the Siege of Terra).


Now that I think about it, isn't it odd that the NH chose to confront the Lion (assuming he chose to) instead of seeing his father perish by his own hands?

Or maybe Horus forced him but still, I would wager that the NH is one of the few Primarchs to really have something against the Emperor (Angron, Mortarion, NH > the rest imo) and what better way to cement his newfound alliance with Kurze than to let him have this or at least be there to see Horus do it himslef.


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