# help for a newbie



## dre619 (Feb 18, 2011)

I am brand new to Warhammer Fantasy and i played my first real game yesterday(i did play once before when someone was showing me how to play 8th edition) with my Dark Elves. Played against my friend who brought his Lizardmen that haven't seen action in years, and he brought along his army book dated 1997 (not sure what edition that was). 
Most veteran players would have cringed at our battle mainly due to the lack of overall knowledge and forgetting the rules alot. I will say that I won the battle mainly due to my sorceress and the fact i totally forgot to roll stupidity for CoK until near the end. I did apologize to him for that. 
Anyways since it was our first time we decided to do a 500pt army. I will post what I had and what i remember him having (again he had an outdated book). Until i get a few more games under my belt he will be my opponent and he only has Lizardmen, so any strategies or army builds against Lizardmen would be great. Please explain why you would do/choose something so that i can better understand it. I own the DE Battalion box(20xCorsairs, 16xCrossbowmen, 12xSpearmen, 5xCoK) 10xExecutioners w/Full Command, 10xBlackguard, 1xBolt Thrower, bout 20 Crossbowmen and 16 Spearmen not included in the Battalion Box 


Dark Elves: 
Sorceress lvl2 w/dispel scroll 160pts (only now i realized i overspent on my hero so i feel like more of a jerk since i forgot stupidity) 

Warriorsx10 w/shields 70pts 

Corsairsx10 w/sea serpent standard 135pts 

5xColdone Knights 135pts 

took lore of Dark Magic and rolled for Word of Pain and Chillwind (realizing now how much i inadvertently cheated, had i lost the battle i may have just given up Warhammer all together lol) 

Lizardmen 
10Ssaurus 
8xSkinks w/Kroxigor 
8xSkinks w/Kroxigor 
6-8 Skinks w/Champion (cant remember if it was 6 or 8) 
1xFat Frog on throne who had Lore of Life and got Dwellers Below 

Few questions first then I will write out the battle breakdown in all of its broken splendor! 
1.For Eternal Hatred: When is it the first round of combat? First time you engage an enemy? First time you attack? 
2.CoK: Knights and Coldones get attacks? (i played as if they did) 
3.If attacked from the flank or rear do you get to attack back? 
4. Book says initiative decides who strikes first, does that hold true for EVERY time a close combat attack happens even if its not my turn? 
5.Can magic missile aka Chillwind be cast into combat? (i'm hoping yes otherwise i am a dirty cheater) 
6. If a Coldone Knight dies does the Coldone stay in combat or do they die as a unit? 

Lizards go first, we both set up since we didn't know what we were doing, and we played on a 4x4 table. Lizard layout from my POV L to R: 8xSkinks w/Kroxigor 8xSkinks w/Kroxigor 8xSkinks Fat Frog 10xSaurus 
Being the incredible General that i am I set up my 10xSpearmen across from his Saurus(hindsight not the best idea), My CoK in the middle in front of my Sorceress and my Corsairs setup to my left facing all the shooty skinks 

Turn 1: everyone moves, nothing else happens (did debate about the distance of a shortbow so we settled on 12in, anyone verify or correct?) 

Rest of the battle goes as follows in no certain order the best way i can remember it: 
Spearmen took on the Saurus and did good the first round but ultimately died a round or two later 

CoK went straight at his Fat Frog and they stalemated until the end of the game (Fat Frog did a great job rolling 4+ armour saves, but my CoK did better with their 2+) 

Corsairs did awesome. Didn't stand up to the shooting as i had hoped but in CC they did great against Skinks (don't know if that is saying much) At one point they fled and were able to rallly and charge the Saurus doing excellent damage. That caused the Saurus to flee and the Corsairs got ensnare against them so no more saurus. 

Broken lvl2 Sorceress with Dispel scroll did AWESOME! As she should have. Chillwind took out his Skinks while Word of Pain kept his Saurus and Fat Frog at bay. 

End of the Battle had my CoK fighting Fat Frog, side flanked by lone Kroxigor, and rear flanked by 4 Skinks and a champion. Only 1 CoK died. Sorceress finished off the Skinks, then the CoK killed Fatticus Frog, with the corsairs to flank and finish off the Kroxigor. 

After typing all this, that game may have been the most broken game ever, but we both had alot of fun. 
Next we will up the points to 1000


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

dre619 said:


> Few questions first then I will write out the battle breakdown in all of its broken splendor!
> 1.For Eternal Hatred: When is it the first round of combat? First time you engage an enemy? First time you attack?
> its the First time you engage an enemy
> 
> ...


on a side note you should try get the most up to date book for lizard men


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## Flindo (Oct 30, 2010)

just a heads up, your friend cant legally use that 1997 book, you would have to be playing that edition for it to work, anyways I agree with everything Sybarite says


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## dre619 (Feb 18, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. And yes i told him to get a new book, but he is broke at the moment. Thanks for the clarification on the rules


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## ultor (Dec 6, 2010)

1.For Eternal Hatred: When is it the first round of combat? First time you engage an enemy? First time you attack? 
its the First time you engage an enemy. And you can benefit from hatred if you engage another enemy unit later.

2.CoK: Knights and Coldones get attacks? (i played as if they did)
yes they both attack at diffent I

3.If attacked from the flank or rear do you get to attack back? 
Yes but you do not get supportive attacks

4. Book says initiative decides who strikes first, does that hold true for EVERY time a close combat attack happens even if its not my turn?
yes its does and you will find you strike 1st agiest lizard men every time 

5.Can magic missile aka Chillwind be cast into combat? (i'm hoping yes otherwise i am a dirty cheater) 
You can't cast magic missiles to units that are in combat and you can't use magic missiles at all if your caster is in combat.

6. If a Coldone Knight dies does the Coldone stay in combat or do they die as a unit? 
no if the knight dies so does the coldone 


Just a correction and an additional info


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

To kill that lot lizards, I would take lots of crossbows and kill the meagre ten saurus in one hit. If even one is left alive he'll just revive them with Lore of Life. CoK should work nicely as well; Lizardmen really rely on large blocks of infantry to hold against charges an then grind down the enemy. He doesn't appear to have any large blocks. The other best way is to use magic that attacks their ludicrously low initiative- i.e. lore of death or shadow. Against an experienced Lizardmen player, I doubt this would work, but since he's not even playing with a legal list (the frog costs way too much to be allowed in a 500pt game) I doubt he's aware of this. If he's going to spam dwellers, then shove some purple suns or penumbral pendulums down his throat.


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

coke123 said:


> Lizardmen really rely on large blocks of infantry to hold against charges an then grind down the enemy.


Granted I have only ever played against one Lizardman opponent he doesn't play like that at all. His usual tactic is to send in his hordes of skinks with their stupid, stupid, annoying poison attacks and use them as a fire screen for his multiple units of Saurus. He then usually engages your main troop block with his temple guard and then flank and rear charges with his other units, therein getting the combat bonus every time. With whatever skinks he has left he then goes after my warmachines, and then, if by some insane stroke of luck the Stegadon has made it across the board without getting annhilated by the cannon, he will storm that in to finish me off with impact hits.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Actually, to be fair, that use of skinks would probably work in 500pts, but when you go up to higher point battles, it's the saurus that win the day. I had a bigger reply, but decided against it in the spirit of not clogging up the thread with off topic chatter. PM me if you really care, but I kinda doubt you do. Otherwise we'll leave this for a Lizardmen thread.


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## dre619 (Feb 18, 2011)

Anyone know a link of the Lizardmen stats and points value? If i could find that then we could start playing a legit game since he cannot afford the book at the moment. 
I'm thinking we should stay with 500pt armies for a few more battles so i can use all my units and see which ones i do and don't like. Of the 4 i used the order from most favorite to least is 1.CoK 2.Sorceress 3.Corsairs 4.Spearmen Corsairs would have tied with sorceress had she not been broken.
I want to try a shooting army next with my Bolt Thrower and Crossbowmen. Everything i have read about Crossbowment is only take musician for reform and not worry about the rest of the command.
Question 7: Crossbows are a 2x shot with the second rank being able to fire, does the second rank get the second shot as well or do they fall to the support rules? (2x5 crossbowmen=20 shots with rerolls due to Hatred is what im understanding)


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

ultor said:


> 5.Can magic missile aka Chillwind be cast into combat? (i'm hoping yes otherwise i am a dirty cheater)
> You can't cast magic missiles to units that are in combat and you can't use magic missiles at all if your caster is in combat.
> yes he is right for some reason l thought it was an expiration like boles





dre619 said:


> Anyone know a link of the Lizardmen stats and points value? If i could find that then we could start playing a legit game since he cannot afford the book at the moment.
> because you a new l will warn you. you can be ban for giving out status and points per man. the rules are here http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1
> 
> Question 7: Crossbows are a 2x shot with the second rank being able to fire, does the second rank get the second shot as well or do they fall to the support rules? (2x5 crossbowmen=20 shots with rerolls due to Hatred is what im understanding)
> you would get 20 shots at -1 to hit you only get Hatred in close combat


hope it all helps and thanks ultor


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Started this post around ten hours ago, and then got busy, so if it's already been said, sorry!

To start with, we can't tell you where to find rules on the internet or such- I'm pretty sure that'd be breaking GW's IP, and they really don't like that. If we did and GW found out (and they probably would) they could easily shut down heresy, and put Jezlad and the mods in shit. So if you want statlines/rules, either buy the codex/army book, or look for yourself (not that I'm advocating ripping off rules).

Anyway, as for lists...Here's a 500pts Lizard list that should do alright, if you want one for your mate-

Scar Veteran with Light Armour

15 Saurus with Full Command

10 Skink Skirmishers with...Probably blowpipes, but some prefer javs. pick whichever one you want.

10 Skink Skirmishers as above

1 Salamander.

I know that earlier I said skinks aren't the best way to go, but then again I don't really play 500pts. At this low a level, another block of saurus means going without command groups for both of them, which seems... a bit pointless if you feel like winning combat/actually breaking the opponent. The idea is to outmaneuver the enemy, wearing them down until you initiate combat with the saurus.

I had a peek at the Dark Elf book today, and thought up what would do well against lizards- I figured all out shooting- you're not beating saurus in combat anytime soon, so I was thinking of a pretty basic fighty/shooty hero, two units of crossbowmen with musicians, some Dark Riders with Repeater handbows, and a RBT. A fair amount of ranged firepower, and maneuvrability in the dark riders in order to combat skinks/run circles around saurus whilst peppering them with shots. Can't stress enough that I don't know Dark Elves, but from my perspective this should be pretty darn good.


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