# Eldar Homeworld idea



## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

The birth of Slaanesh created the Eye of Terror, which overlaid the core of the Eldar Empire. It makes sense, as the more concentrated populations of Eldar produced greater amounts of sexy warp energy, and eventually partied their way to the birth of Slaanesh.

Now if we have a look at the Eye of Terror http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Eye_of_Terror, we see that it's circular (or spiral depending on the picture) and that it has a clear centre. That centre is logically the Eldar homeworld, as it would have produced more sexy energy than the others (greatest population), and would have probably been more depraved for longer than the others.

It would also make sense for the palace of Slaanesh to be there if it actually exists, as that's where the greatest concentration of Eldar suffering and pleasure (i.e pretty much what Slaanesh is made out of) is.

If that's true, then it'd be a pretty likely place for Daemon Fulgrim be hanging out, at his master's side. Is he still possessed by the way?

TLDR-Slaanesh, Fulgrim and the Eldar Homeworld are smack in the middle of the Eye of Terror.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I would hesitate to say that the Eldar homeworld is smack in the center of the Eye. We don't know the exact specifications of all the planets, but perhaps the planets more to the "east" were more habitable or had more materials or whatever. Or perhaps the south had better waygate access or whatever.

It's a fair guess that the homeworld is towards the center, but not a guarantee.

I never thought of the gods having a single planet where they chill. To me, I always thought the places they exist in are simply the Warp. Imagining them being in a garden for Nurgle, for example, is our mortal minds trying to wrap around a place of residence for the Chaos gods. We imagine it's on a planet because if we had a garden, it would be on a planet, you know?

And is Fulgrim still possessed? I personally think so, despite what _Primarchs_ said. I think it was a trick to have his men get off his back.


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

hailene said:


> I would hesitate to say that the Eldar homeworld is smack in the center of the Eye. We don't know the exact specifications of all the planets, but perhaps the planets more to the "east" were more habitable or had more materials or whatever. Or perhaps the south had better waygate access or whatever.
> 
> It's a fair guess that the homeworld is towards the center, but not a guarantee..


There's no guarantee of course, but the idea of the most populous Eldar world (the homeworld) =the greatest psychic focus point for the God of Sexytime does seem attractive.



hailene said:


> I never thought of the gods having a single planet where they chill. To me, I always thought the places they exist in are simply the Warp. Imagining them being in a garden for Nurgle, for example, is our mortal minds trying to wrap around a place of residence for the Chaos gods. We imagine it's on a planet because if we had a garden, it would be on a planet, you know?.


Slaanesh is everywhere a warp-sensitive creature has pleasure. But again, if he/she/dangly parts it is anything more than a an omnipresent feeling of perversion, the homeworld of the Eldar makes sense as the palace site of the Prince/ess/Tentacle Monster of Pleasure. And if Greater Daemons are slivers of the greater whole, it's a possibility that there's a huge sliver that's counts as the Chaos god itself.

I also like the idea of my laptop being archaeotech in 40,000 years and some Emperor's Children marine going FFFFFFFUUUUUUU when he finds it.



hailene said:


> And is Fulgrim still possessed? I personally think so, despite what _Primarchs_ said. I think it was a trick to have his men get off his back.


Pretty much . Didn't Lucius try and torture the daemon out? A Slaanesh Daemon eats torture for breakfast. Then the torturer. Then it has a full English.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

The Palace of Slaanesh is inherently part of the warp. It isn't present on a single world in the Eye, suggesting such would suggest a misunderstanding of the gods' realms.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Sturmovic said:


> Pretty much . Didn't Lucius try and torture the daemon out? A Slaanesh Daemon eats torture for breakfast. Then the torturer. Then it has a full English.


Yeah, it didn't seem to be a particularly solid idea. Seemed like a fundamental misunderstanding of daemons. They approach the possession as if it were a leech. If you put some extreme stimuli on the leech (like burning or freezing it) the leech may detach itsef.

Daemons don't particularly care. And if they do, their scale is completely different than a mortal being's.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The Palace of Slaanesh is inherently part of the warp. It isn't present on a single world in the Eye, suggesting such would suggest a misunderstanding of the gods' realms.


I wrote so much in my post, so don't get me wrong, I'm your side of the fence.

Is there anywhere it explicitly states that it isn't on a physical world?


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

The Eye of Terror is realspace? I thought it was a hole in the universe where the warp replaced realspace.

The Palace of Slaanesh definitely exists, and should be either tied to a particular world in the Eye, or locked in a pocket dimension within the Warp.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Sturmovic said:


> The Eye of Terror is realspace? I thought it was a hole in the universe where the warp replaced realspace.


The Eye is a section of realspace where the warp has breached through in such a dramatic manner as to make most of the laws of realspace stop being applied properly (though they do still exist, gravity is a thing in the Eye it just doesn't work in a scientifically possible manner). However the Eye is still fundamentally part of this universe, which is why marines can survive there and why there are still planets (albeit ones that should be technically impossible). 



> The Palace of Slaanesh definitely exists, and should be either tied to a particular world in the Eye, or locked in a pocket dimension within the Warp.


I don't think there is such a thing as pocket dimensions within the warp. The warp is one vast ever-changing ocean of feeling, every part of it is connected and every part of it is Slaanesh (whilst also being Nurgle, Tzeentch, Khorne and none-of-the-above). Slaanesh's Palace is very real it's just impossible to define given the limits of our mortal perceptions. Fulgrim definitely has one planet in the Eye where he lives and does his thing and this world is obviously heavily dedicated to Slaanesh, and this is where I think the confusion is coming in. Slaanesh itself is not confined to any one location but Her servants are, because they are 'real' (as in: come from realspace and are primarily bound by reality) and She is not.


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

hailene said:


> Yeah, it didn't seem to be a particularly solid idea. Seemed like a fundamental misunderstanding of daemons. They approach the possession as if it were a leech. If you put some extreme stimuli on the leech (like burning or freezing it) the leech may detach itsef.?


A sexy, sexy leech.



hailene said:


> I wrote so much in my post, so don't get me wrong, I'm your side of the fence.
> 
> Is there anywhere it explicitly states that it isn't on a physical world?


Don't think so. On the other hand, its' existence isn't actually mentioned in more than one source, so the fluff is rather vague.



MEQinc said:


> The Eye is a section of realspace where the warp has breached through in such a dramatic manner as to make most of the laws of realspace stop being applied properly (though they do still exist, gravity is a thing in the Eye it just doesn't work in a scientifically possible manner). However the Eye is still fundamentally part of this universe, which is why marines can survive there and why there are still planets (albeit ones that should be technically impossible). .?


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Palace_of_Slaanesh.jpg is a picture of the Palace of Slaanesh. Note how the Greater Daemon is in a corporeal form. I may be reading into it too much, but Greater Daemons shouldn't assume form like that within the warp, right?

Also, here's another thing: Most pictures of the Eye of Terror show the Necron Pylons taking a slice out of the Eye that goes straight to its' centre. But the Eye, and Chaos in general didn't exist the last time the Necrons were awake, so controlling Chaos can't have been the original purpose of the pylons. 

The Eldar were around though, and were mortal enemies to the Necrons, so building the pylons right towards the Eldar homeworld to neutralise their psychic powers makes sense. That pie slice traces an ancient Necron assault on the Eldar Empire.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Sturmovic said:


> A sexy, sexy leech.
> http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Palace_of_Slaanesh.jpg is a picture of the Palace of Slaanesh. Note how the Greater Daemon is in a corporeal form. I may be reading into it too much, but Greater Daemons shouldn't assume form like that within the warp, right?


Here's the funny thing, of course the pictures that we see will look like a physical world. That's how we perceive things. 

The warp is an alien, foreign universe. Us understanding it how it "appears" would be like trying to describe a sun set to a person who has always been blind.

So of course the artists have to create something that us humans can comprehend. So it'll look like something we understand, and one of those means is sight.

I'm still not sold that the Palace is on any one planet, if it's on a planet at all. 

I'm sure it could manifest on a planet if She so desired, but to be permanently anchored to one? Sounds too much of a physical world limitation.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

hailene said:


> Is there anywhere it explicitly states that it isn't on a physical world?





hailene said:


> I'm sure it could manifest on a planet if She so desired...


The Chaos Daemons codex clearly states that each realm constitutes part of the warp, with everything else that isn't part of a realm being referred to as the Formless Wastes. Seeing as the Eye of Terror isn't part of the warp that pretty much says it all. 

If Slaanesh's palace was present on a single world it would apply physical limitations on something that quite frankly can't (and shouldn't) be limited. It would have physical dimensions, some measure of order, and could potentially be physically invaded. It would also thus be placing such limitations on Slaanesh herself considering the gods and their realms are constituted of the same warp energy. 

Even if Slaanesh willed it, her palace could not exist on a single planet (not even one in the Eye).



Sturmovic said:


> The Eye of Terror is realspace? I thought it was a hole in the universe where the warp replaced realspace.


No. The Eye of Terror is a warp overlap, its where the possibility of the materium merges with the impossibility of the immaterium. Thus the laws of reality still apply to an extent, and hence why planets (and presumably stars) still endure within its boundaries. 



Sturmovic said:


> The Palace of Slaanesh definitely exists, and should be either tied to a particular world in the Eye, or locked in a pocket dimension within the Warp.


No it shouldn't. It is inherently part of the warp and is made up entirely of the warp energy that constitutes Slaanesh, essentially Slaanesh and her palace are one and the same entity; thus it cannot endure outside of the warp's boundaries.



Sturmovic said:


> Don't think so. On the other hand, its' existence isn't actually mentioned in more than one source, so the fluff is rather vague.


The lore may only exist in a single source, but it isn't vague at all.



Sturmovic said:


> http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Palace_of_Slaanesh.jpg is a picture of the Palace of Slaanesh. Note how the Greater Daemon is in a corporeal form. I may be reading into it too much, but Greater Daemons shouldn't assume form like that within the warp, right?


Technically, no they don't assume corporeal forms within the warp (but then they technically don't in realspace either). But when mortals peer into the warp they automatically assign visions to the incomprehensible warp energy in an attempt to understand it. See this thread for details. 



Sturmovic said:


> The Eldar were around though, and were mortal enemies to the Necrons, so building the pylons right towards the Eldar homeworld to neutralise their psychic powers makes sense. That pie slice traces an ancient Necron assault on the Eldar Empire.


The original Eldar homeworld is somewhere within the Eye of Terror no doubt, considering all the sources claim that Slaanesh devoured the heartlands of the Eldar Empire - which would presumably include their original homeworld. Most likely what remains of their homeworld is dedicated to Slaanesh, perhaps its even Fulgrim's infamous 'pleasure planet', but it certainly isn't the location of the Palace of Slaanesh.


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## Cowbellicus (Apr 10, 2012)

Sturmovic said:


> sexy warp energy



If I could hand out rep, you would be getting some sir.


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## Xisor (Oct 1, 2011)

The Eldar, indicated in _Xenology_ to be an engineered race, as servants or allies to the Old Ones... I can't help but think that, actually, the Eldar don't _have_ a homeworld.

They had worlds that marked the centres of their Empire, absolutely, but homeworlds? No. No, I don't think so.

Also, the centre of the Eye of Terror surely doesn't exist. Mainly because the further in you go, all that's happening is you're further from reality. Once far enough inside, you'll no-doubt find yourself deep in the warp. What lies in the heart of the warp? Well, the gods, probably. So, invariably Slaanesh lives in there, so to speak, but once inside the Eye, very little can certainly be said.

On the other hand, as per _Atlas Infernal_, it is indeed possible to mess around in the eye of terror... so what would I know. Sure, Fulgrim's romping around the Eldar homeworld. k:


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The Chaos Daemons codex clearly states that each realm constitutes part of the warp, with everything else that isn't part of a realm being referred to as the Formless Wastes. Seeing as the Eye of Terror isn't part of the warp that pretty much says it all.
> 
> If Slaanesh's palace was present on a single world it would apply physical limitations on something that quite frankly can't (and shouldn't) be limited. It would have physical dimensions, some measure of order, and could potentially be physically invaded. It would also thus be placing such limitations on Slaanesh herself considering the gods and their realms are constituted of the same warp energy.
> 
> Even if Slaanesh willed it, her palace could not exist on a single planet (not even one in the Eye)..


Well it was worth a shot. I still think some fragment or reflection of the Palace could be on the Eldar homeworld. Probably not the whole thing.





Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The original Eldar homeworld is somewhere within the Eye of Terror no doubt, considering all the sources claim that Slaanesh devoured the heartlands of the Eldar Empire - which would presumably include their original homeworld. .


The point is that the homeworld is the middle, and most likely at the end of the Cadian Gate wedge. That was my main point really.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Eye_of_Terror


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

hailene said:


> Here's the funny thing, of course the pictures that we see will look like a physical world. That's how we perceive things.
> 
> The warp is an alien, foreign universe. Us understanding it how it "appears" would be like trying to describe a sun set to a person who has always been blind.
> 
> ...


On the other hand the Warp is a reflection of the emotive energies of sentient races, so it shouldn't be totally incomprehensible. We're making it after all, right now. Porn movie by porn movie.



hailene said:


> I'm still not sold that the Palace is on any one planet, if it's on a planet at all.
> .


A reflection then. An aspect that's located on the planet that's the most sacred place for Chaos (except Terra).


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

Xisor said:


> The Eldar, indicated in _Xenology_ to be an engineered race, as servants or allies to the Old Ones... I can't help but think that, actually, the Eldar don't _have_ a homeworld.


Good point, but they seem to be more naturally-evolved than the orks (who apparently have starship design stuffed into their DNA). Maybe their affinity for the warp is the engineered part?



Xisor said:


> Also, the centre of the Eye of Terror surely doesn't exist. Mainly because the further in you go, all that's happening is you're further from reality. Once far enough inside, you'll no-doubt find yourself deep in the warp. What lies in the heart of the warp? Well, the gods, probably. So, invariably Slaanesh lives in there, so to speak, but once inside the Eye, very little can certainly be said.
> 
> On the other hand, as per _Atlas Infernal_, it is indeed possible to mess around in the eye of terror... so what would I know. Sure, Fulgrim's romping around the Eldar homeworld. k:


Fair enough. The Astartes Praeses can sort it out.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Sturmovic said:


> On the other hand the Warp is a reflection of the emotive energies of sentient races, so it shouldn't be totally incomprehensible. We're making it after all, right now. Porn movie by porn movie.


No, it really is incomprehensible. There are several times where psykers try to communicate what the warp is like to non-psykers and it falls short. The most recent example I can think of is in _Void Stalker_. It's between Talos, a non-psyker, and Octavia, a navigator. Talos starts off.

'May I ask what it [the warp] was like?'

'The war[ is dark here. Utterly dark. The colours are all black. Can you imagine a thousand shades of black, each darker than the last?'

He shook his head. 'You are asking me to envisage a concept alien to the material universe.

'It's cold. How can a colour be cold? In the darkness...'
~~~~~~~~
The warp, the actual warp, is something beyond mortal sense. There's a reason why psykers call non-psykers "blunts".



Sturmovic said:


> A reflection then. An aspect that's located on the planet that's the most sacred place for Chaos (except Terra).


I can not believe why or even how, Slaanesh's palace would be limited to a planet. I'm between CoTE and you, and believe that it normally resides in the warp and thus isn't on any planet, but if Slaanesh wills it, a physical reflection of it could occur on a planet of her choosing. I guess it wouldn't technically actually be it, but it'd be just as "real" as a Greater Daemon is.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Xisor said:


> The Eldar, indicated in _Xenology_ to be an engineered race, as servants or allies to the Old Ones... I can't help but think that, actually, the Eldar don't _have_ a homeworld.
> 
> They had worlds that marked the centres of their Empire, absolutely, but homeworlds? No. No, I don't think so.


Perhaps. The only thing I can think of to argue the contrary is the following passage from _Codex: Eldar_: _"Although the whereabouts of the original Eldar homeworld is unknown, it is said that this world had three moons. These were called Lileath the Maiden Moon that was purest white, Kurnous the Hunter's Moon that was greenish and dim, and Eldanesh the Red Moon..."_ 

Although thats hardly conclusive.



Sturmovic said:


> Well it was worth a shot. I still think some fragment or reflection of the Palace could be on the Eldar homeworld. Probably not the whole thing.


Perhaps some twisted Daemon Prince has attempted to replicate the Palace on a Daemon World. But I am remaining resolute that the Palace simply cannot exist anywhere other than wholly within the warp. Although I could probably concede that _hailene_'s idea of a "physical reflection" of the Palace being plausable.




Sturmovic said:


> The point is that the homeworld is the middle, and most likely at the end of the Cadian Gate wedge. That was my main point really.
> 
> http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Eye_of_Terror


It depends how you interpret it, but its not clear that there is a middle or direct centre of the Eye. Also you seem to be basing your theory on the assumption that the Eldar homeworld was the centre of the indulgence and insanity that gripped the Eldar Empire, which we simply don't know was the case.


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Pe
> Perhaps some twisted Daemon Prince has attempted to replicate the Palace on a Daemon World. But I am remaining resolute that the Palace simply cannot exist anywhere other than wholly within the warp. Although I could probably concede that _hailene_'s idea of a "physical reflection" of the Palace being plausable..





hailene said:


> I can not believe why or even how, Slaanesh's palace would be limited to a planet. I'm between CoTE and you, and believe that it normally resides in the warp and thus isn't on any planet, but if Slaanesh wills it, a physical reflection of it could occur on a planet of her choosing. I guess it wouldn't technically actually be it, but it'd be just as "real" as a Greater Daemon is.


The Eldar homeworld is the holiest planet dedicated to Chaos. I'm convinced it should be touched directly by Slaanesh in some way, and not through a daemon prince or pawn.




Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> It depends how you interpret it, but its not clear that there is a middle or direct centre of the Eye. .


The Eye is pretty spherical (or spirally, depending on the pictures), so there should be one. The Cadian rift also points right to the middle.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Also you seem to be basing your theory on the assumption that the Eldar homeworld was the centre of the indulgence and insanity that gripped the Eldar Empire, which we simply don't know was the case.


It's a very reasonable assumption though.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Sturmovic said:


> The Eldar homeworld is the holiest planet dedicated to Chaos. I'm convinced it should be touched directly by Slaanesh in some way, and not through a daemon prince or pawn.


Cite your source? Who says it's the most holiest planets?



Sturmovic said:


> The Eye is pretty spherical (or spirally, depending on the pictures), so there should be one. The Cadian rift also points right to the middle.


Source that says the homeworld is in the center?



Sturmovic said:


> It's a very reasonable assumption though.


No more than assumption, though. Do you have any proof to back it up?


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

hailene said:


> Cite your source? Who says it's the most holiest planets??


No source, as it has never directly appeared in fluff. However, as the centre of the birthplace of Slaanesh it would surely hold colossal significance to any Chaos devotee.

There is only one planet that's even more sacred to Chaos-Terra. 



hailene said:


> Source that says the homeworld is in the center???


No source. For my evidence, see the earlier posts. 



hailene said:


> No more than assumption, though. Do you have any proof to back it up?


None. The subject has never been touched on directly in fluff. I believe that my line of reasoning is pretty solid though.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Sturmovic said:


> No source, as it has never directly appeared in fluff. However, as the centre of the birthplace of Slaanesh it would surely hold colossal significance to any Chaos devotee.
> 
> There is only one planet that's even more sacred to Chaos-Terra.


Any Chaos devotee? Surely you mean just Slaaneshi cultists? Why would it hold any significance for followers of Khorne, Nurgle or Tzeentch? But even then, Slaaneshi cultists are more preoccupied with sensory depravity and pleasure-seeking to get caught up in religious sentimentality.

And please enlighten me as to why Terra is sacred to Chaos? By "Chaos" I am also assuming you are referring to it's human devotees rather than the actual gods?


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Any Chaos devotee? Surely you mean just Slaaneshi cultists? Why would it hold any significance for followers of Khorne, Nurgle or Tzeentch? But even then, Slaaneshi cultists are more preoccupied with sensory depravity and pleasure-seeking to get caught up in religious sentimentality.?


True, although there are quite a few followers of Chaos Undivided, who would see Slaanesh as an aspect of a greater whole, and would give significance to all four gods equally.

And as for Slaaneshi sexy-time, I would hazard a guess that the planet would be significant to them because it'd be the nearest to their god (and ultimate pleasure) that they can ever be.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> And please enlighten me as to why Terra is sacred to Chaos? By "Chaos" I am also assuming you are referring to it's human devotees rather than the actual gods?


The Eldar home world birthed one Chaos god. Terra birthed three. Although I'm not sure anyone apart from the Emperor knows that.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Sturmovic said:


> And as for Slaaneshi sexy-time, I would hazard a guess that the planet would be significant to them because it'd be the nearest to their god (and ultimate pleasure) that they can ever be.


How is it the nearest to their god that they could ever be? Slaanesh isn't present in the Eye, nor has she ever been.



Sturmovic said:


> The Eldar home world birthed one Chaos god. Terra birthed three. Although I'm not sure anyone apart from the Emperor knows that.


The Eldar homeworld didn't birth a Chaos God, the Eldar did. The same applies to Terra - they are just lumps of rock. 

And for the record, the Chaos Gods were not birthed by humanity. That may have been the case in the earlier editions of the lore but it has since been strongly refuted by more recent lore.


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## mob16151 (Oct 20, 2011)

OT: You know what bothers me about the eye of terror? The pylons on cadia. The time frame for them seems.....................wrong.


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> How is it the nearest to their god that they could ever be? Slaanesh isn't present in the Eye, nor has she ever been..


It kind of goes to my idea that some aspect of the Palace of Slaanesh is there.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The Eldar homeworld didn't birth a Chaos God, the Eldar did. The same applies to Terra - they are just lumps of rock. .


Chaos folks are a supersticious lot.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> nd for the record, the Chaos Gods were not birthed by humanity. That may have been the case in the earlier editions of the lore but it has since been strongly refuted by more recent lore.


Really? I've not seen it anywhere.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

mob16151 said:


> OT: You know what bothers me about the eye of terror? The pylons on cadia. The time frame for them seems.....................wrong.


Unless of course their original intention was nothing to do with the Eye of Terror. That, or they managed to predict the formation of the Eye, and given that Orikan the Diviner is said to have predicted the Fall of the Eldar long before it happened, the latter seems plausable. 



Sturmovic said:


> It kind of goes to my idea that some aspect of the Palace of Slaanesh is there.


But of course, as you admitted, that is just mere speculation.



Sturmovic said:


> Chaos folks are a supersticious lot.


Maybe, but that still doesn't mean they are dull enough to believe a planet birthed a god. 



Sturmovic said:


> Really? I've not seen it anywhere.


It can be gleaned, from among other things, at least four codicies: _Chaos Daemons_, _Chaos Space Marines_, _Necrons 3rd edn_, and _Necrons 5th edn_.


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Unless of course their original intention was nothing to do with the Eye of Terror. That, or they managed to predict the formation of the Eye, and given that Orikan the Diviner is said to have predicted the Fall of the Eldar long before it happened, the latter seems plausable.


How about an anti-Eldar weapon?




Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> But of course, as you admitted, that is just mere speculation.


Speculation is all we have when the lore doesn't extend over certain subjects.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Maybe, but that still doesn't mean they are dull enough to believe a planet birthed a god.


Of course not, but the epicentre of said birth might well hold significance.




Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> It can be gleaned, from among other things, at least four codicies: _Chaos Daemons_, _Chaos Space Marines_, _Necrons 3rd edn_, and _Necrons 5th edn_.


On the other hand I believe that it's revealed several times that the earliest Daemon Princes are warlords and the like from Earth, with the implication that they developed alongside Chaos.

Unfortunately I don't have the first hand source material, but 40k wiki suggests these as possible sources:

ber Chaotica - "Khorne: Black Crusades"
Index Malleus: Daemons of the Warp, p. 93
Codex: Eye of Terror, p.5
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (3rd Edition, 1st Codex), p. 8
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (4th Edition)
"Spawndom and Daemonhood," p.11
"The Final Battle," p.15
"Daemon Prince," p. 32
Codex: Chaos Daemons (4th Edition), p.46
Index Astartes
Storm of Iron (Novel) by Graham McNeill


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## thebinman (Jun 18, 2010)

I always thought Old lore has the Eldar home world being completed destroyed by the Fall.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Sturmovic said:


> How about an anti-Eldar weapon?


Perhaps. Given that the warp plagues would have no doubt effected the area that the Eye now covers, the pylons may have been intended to limit their spread. That or to combat the warp-magicks of the Eldar and other psychic races. 



Sturmovic said:


> Speculation is all we have when the lore doesn't extend over certain subjects.


But the lore _does_ extend over this subject, at least partially. _Codex: Chaos Daemons_ reveals enough information about the realms of the gods to rule out them existing in the Eye.



Sturmovic said:


> On the other hand I believe that it's revealed several times that the earliest Daemon Princes are warlords and the like from Earth, with the implication that they developed alongside Chaos.
> 
> Unfortunately I don't have the first hand source material, but 40k wiki suggests these as possible sources:
> 
> ...


It is generally accepted (and supported by lore) that the War in Heaven was the seminal event that gave rise to Chaos. Although of course, Chaos is eternal and timeless, but for simplicity's sake:

This is supported by two key passages:



> "They [the Necrons] have found a new and unexpected age of civilisation and war. The galaxy is blossoming with life but still overrun with latent psykers and worshippers of the infernal warp energies unleashed by the war with the Old Ones." - _Codex: Necrons, 3rd edn, p. 26._





> "In the warp, similar thoughts and emotions gather together like rivulets of water running down a cliff face. They form streams and eddies of anguish and desire, pools of hatred and torrents of pride. *For billions of years* these tides and waves flowed unceasingly through Warpspace, and such is their power that they formed creatures made of the stuff of Warpspace.
> 
> These instinctual, formless beings gained rudimentary consciousness and the Chaos gods were born - vast psychic presences made of the dreams and nightmares of *mortals*. As the *races* of the galaxy prospered and grew, so too did their hopes and dreams, their rage and wars, their love and hatred, feeding the Chaos Gods and nurturing their power. Eventually, the gods reached into the dreams of *mortals* to demand their praise and servitude." - _Codex: Chaos Space Marines, 4th edn, p. 8._


Also, I quickly checked some of those citations you posted, and found absolutely nothing related to this subject. I guess that shows you the reliability of 40k wiki.

Aside from the above quotes, other evidence refuting humanity being the creators of Chaos:



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Ultimately though I refuse to believe that the first three chaos gods manifested during the rise of mankind (unless it is a pure coincidence). Simply because this implies mankind played a significant role in their manifestation. You can't honestly say that humanity's petty conflicts across a single world brought about the rise of Khorne, when for 60,000,000 years across the entire galaxy (if not universe) inter-planetary through to plausable inter-galactic warfare was being waged. The War in Heaven itself is noted as a conflict the likes of which the universe has never seen again, this conflict in itself would have contributed significantly to the rise of Khorne rather than semi-intelligent monkeys bashing each other with sticks.
> 
> This can in turn be cross referenced with the rise of Slaanesh. A galaxy spanning empire with trillions of subjects who are one of the most (if not the most) psychically attuned species in the galaxy took thousands of years (possibly up to a million according to _Codex: Eldar_) to give rise to Slaanesh. I refuse to believe mankind gave rise to three chaos gods in the space of a couple thousand years (and that's being generous) even when civilisation had barely started on Terra and wars in general had few casualties and minor bloodshed compared to other conflicts raging in the universe.


All mortal races effect Chaos, not just humanity. Considering there have been innumerable species and civilisations prior to the rise of man, and considering the War in Heaven was a conflict that vastly eclipses anything that mankind ever has and ever will produce, its safe to say that mankind did not give rise to three of the gods.


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