# Gw staff, make me feel like quiting



## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

Here i am in a dilema that I feel like the good people of heresy should know about, I am a long time standing vet of this game and have built up a large repitore of models and armies, and there is not much i need in the way of hobby material. 

To get to the point i have been attending vets night in my local store since it opened and it was good plenty of opponants and a variety of armies to face each week. I got to meet new people and talk about the hobby and helped to improve their armies. 

The problem is the Gw staff who is running the store has stopped open gaming on vets night and introduced some crappy weekly system rota, one week will be 40k, the next week lort, followed by fantasy. They have stopped us using the gaming tables and have 1 table alloted for the weeks event. 

They have also said if you do not buy the relivant supplement or start in another system you cannot play in the store that week. This week it is going to be a planetstrike week.

I despise planetstrike, what is the point to it? The staff had said to me if i want to come and game on the day i must buy the stupid book for its ridiculous cost and put my name down for the game.

Again next week is war of the ring, i dont play wotr, i hate rules for it, but again i have been told, (like many others) that we have to buy the rulebook and start an army of wotr if we want to game on next weeks vets night.

They have done this because they dont like the fact that, alot of people are using lists to win the games and there are more 40k players than other players, they said they wanted to see more variety of games beeing played and people trying differant lists. I thought the whole point of being a vet was that you didnt need to try new things. 

It seems to me they dont like vets and it make feel like quiting ond saying a big fat F*** YOU GW. If your wondering why i dont play somwhere else, its because there is nowhere else and i do not have transport to travel 40-50 mile away to a club.


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## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

that sucks man, have you asked him if he really thinks this will work? and that the reason that 40k is being played more often is probably because more people like/play it in your general area than anything else.

this manager seems to be running the store like a dictatorship.

make some complaints to him, get a petition going to get it back the way it was.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Personally, I'd make a complaint to GW head office. Get other people to make complaints as well. Going right up the tree with enough people complaing can sometimes get regional managers jumping up and down.


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## Insane Psychopath (Dec 21, 2006)

That is really bad & a good way to put of customer.

I am a ex-staffer & I can say right now, what draw new customer/people out of intrest is seen people play the games. There only so much us as staffer can talk about, but when people are playing or painting, it show people what the hobby is all about, see it in a diffrent light.
It like a resraunt (sp)/food place as you will. Busy it is, the more like you will get people in, the quite it is, more people tend to avoid it thinking it dodgy.

To take away freedom is a good way to put of gamer like yourself off, this result in the store lossing money & customer, result in targets not being met, etc..

To my knolwege this is not a standard GW thing, if you & your fellow gamers are up set. You could possible talk to the manger & let him know how you & other feel, fail that you could always write in a letter to the HQ or the Regianl Manger, like I said to my knolwege this is not standard & seem to be your store only.

As to be honsty it is complete unfair. Like you I hate planetstrike, in fact I hate all exspansion I'd rather see the time use on brand new codex to be frank, only tolerate there release due to cool models. It just more the hype behind them then little to nothing being done after words.
I have been to a GW (not my local one) that open last year & was put off due to being force to play planet strike if I wanted a game, but I just wanted to check the place out & get a practise game for the Throne of Skulls. Also the guy try running his store the way your local GW trying out theres.
Also like yourself I am purely a 40k player, I like attend tournament & as such I want to try get as many games as I can. I get that least two to three games a week.

Just I am not a fan of WFB or LotR, I have no issue against them, just preffer Warhammer 40k to be honsty.

The only other thing if all else fail is to check if there any local Gaming clubs or if there another Games Workshop near by???

Like I said, have work from GW. Gaming or painting in store is really needed, it bring people in the store who has never heard of the hobby out of intrest. There only so much us as staffer can talk about.
Take that away & you loss the gamer, the customer & the money to make those targets.
It the one thing about the GW hobby that has been great compaired to other wargamer in the sence that we have the store to allow people to come in & play the game & paint.

But again I'd suggest possible talking to the GW manger but make sure other who feel upset are there to back you up. But make sure the store quite.
Fail that you could always try talk to the Regianl manger or send a little letter to GW HQ. Like I said this is not standard to my knolwege for any store.
There ment to be a gaming night in each store for the older gamers like our selfs. Then there a gaming day for the younger gamers.
Fail that I'd look into another Games Workshop store or gaming club or try get a group of the people you enjoy gaming against & possible play that each other homes.

Hope this helps. Just this stuff dose annoy me that they are force you to play the stuff you do not want to & when it is not standard GW policy (sp) to my knolwege.
Only way to get thing sorted is to voice out about it.

IP


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

40-50 miles to get to a club in the UK??? where do you live ? start up your own club, have a word with some of the other vets and play in someones loft/kitchen/basement/pub/shed/garage/bedroom etc

Also, and i hate to point this out but, if you play in GW store you really should support the other systems and contribute to the stores staying open buy purchasing supplements etc, after all they are a business not a game club, play in the stores for free? not gonna happen.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Start your own club.

I have never (and wont ever) play in a store.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

bitsandkits said:


> Also, and i hate to point this out but, if you play in GW store you really should support the other systems


pffffft fuck that.

I supported there other systems when they had BFG, Mordheim, inquisitor and necromunda on the shelves, and look what they did to us players when we did "support the other systems", they told us to piss off and take our money elsewhere.


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

I did ring up the Hq and inquire about it, but they have just told me to talk to the manager of the store and try to reach an agreement. All of us who are upset by the actions of the store have tried to voice what we think, but we just get "if you are upset by it go and play somwhere else", the manager even said they had a list of clubs in the local area we could ring. Talk about turning people away, its a joke and im really frustraited about it. The manager must think they are a mini hitler, because what 'the-ad-man' said is true, a Dictatorship.


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

So they are making the tables available to specific games or systems on a weekly basis. Well, the only thing to do is voice your opinion to the people in charge of your dislike for the change. Don't be a dick about it, but that goes without saying really. Honestly, it is up to them how to run their shop I suppose and if you don't agree, your either out of luck or going to have to buy into the new format. The other option is to get the others that are unhappy with the new format and get the attention of the manager as a group. Don't turn into a mob, but make it known that "X" amount of customers are unhappy and request a middle ground be found to make everyone content. 

Also, if you haven't spent any money at the shop and continue to use it for gaming it does look poorly on those involved. The shop manager is getting frustrated that no one is investing in the shop and he/they are being used and not taken care of. It sounds to me like he is trying to generate revenue and new or expanded customers for the store. Can't really blame him for that now can you? That is his job. 

Basically, be kind, be fair and most of all be understanding to the stores needs and desires too.


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> Also, and i hate to point this out but, if you play in GW store you really should support the other systems and contribute to the stores staying open buy purchasing supplements etc, after all they are a business not a game club, play in the stores for free? not gonna happen.


I agree with what you are saying, and i have bought things to contribute to the store even know i dont like the said product, i just dont like to be told what i can and cant play each week, when it clearly states on their website, that is a place to take part in all and any aspects of the hobby you wish.


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

@ unforgiven302, thanks for the input, i agree about the store wanting to make money (they are a buissness) but people who want to play on a regular basis do actually buy stuff reguarly, the shop is doing quite well for itself. On another note people cant always buy stuff as they other commitments such as family and bills. A couple of the guys used to get stuff every week until they lost their jobs and the manager dosnt seem to understand. 

I do however agree with the store needing to make money.


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## OpTi (Aug 29, 2009)

Had a similer problem a while back in my local GW, manager was being a complete twat and nobody liked him. So we all decided to not bother buying anything in the store and bought everything from another local shop. It wasn't like we didn't try to talk to him about it he just ignored us and in doing so lost all our buisness, and considering there's alot of tournament players we tended to need to buy stuff in bulk and need it quick.

When we get a new manager we all had a chat and worked out when we can use the tables, how many etc. He was a really cool guy so we all started buying from the shop again. We also helped him out with themes and stuff for saturdays or working out ways to get people to buy stuff from the shop. Every vets night we all went and had our dinner together with him and chatted about the hobby. We'd even buy shit we didn't really need just because we didn't want another manager.

In summary, in our store screw with vets and lose your job. Let us play and we'll help you keep you're job best we can.


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## rasolyo (Dec 22, 2009)

Bottom line: it's their business, they can run it any which way they want.

But hey, if it's stopping customers from coming to the store to buy stuff, or forcing people to form their own clubs and not play at the store anymore, they only have themselves to blame.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> Also, and i hate to point this out but, if you play in GW store you really should support the other systems and contribute to the stores staying open buy purchasing supplements etc, after all they are a business not a game club, play in the stores for free? not gonna happen.


So paying an arm and a leg for the codicies/army books and models isn't enough? We are talking about the supplements, after all. By having an army you've pretty much paid your dues as far as I'm concerned; once you factor in a codex, 2000pts of models, templates and maybe even dice, you've already given them a serious amount of business. Why should you be obligated to pay for a supplement you don't want to use?



OpTi said:


> Had a similer problem a while back in my local GW, manager was being a complete twat and nobody liked him. So we all decided to not bother buying anything in the store and bought everything from another local shop. It wasn't like we didn't try to talk to him about it he just ignored us and in doing so lost all our buisness, and considering there's alot of tournament players we tended to need to buy stuff in bulk and need it quick.
> 
> When we get a new manager we all had a chat and worked out when we can use the tables, how many etc. He was a really cool guy so we all started buying from the shop again. We also helped him out with themes and stuff for saturdays or working out ways to get people to buy stuff from the shop. Every vets night we all went and had our dinner together with him and chatted about the hobby. We'd even buy shit we didn't really need just because we didn't want another manager.
> 
> In summary, in our store screw with vets and lose your job. Let us play and we'll help you keep you're job best we can.


My thoughts exactly. Make them realise that you are giving them your business by taking it away. You know what they say, you don't know what you've got until it's gone. 

Although I must say, I've never had this problem myself; all the managers and staff in pretty much every store in Sydney (that I've been to) are all really cool guys.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

coke123 said:


> So paying an arm and a leg for the codicies/army books and models isn't enough? We are talking about the supplements, after all. By having an army you've pretty much paid your dues as far as I'm concerned; once you factor in a codex, 2000pts of models, templates and maybe even dice, you've already given them a serious amount of business. Why should you be obligated to pay for a supplement you don't want to use?



Its an unrealistic expectation to think a retail store should also give you a free to play venue just because you have purchased goods from it,plus its far cheaper to buy an odd supplement than to buy and make terrain and gaming boards and/or pay for the upkeep of a club and room hire.
you buy your army and codex for you, if you want to play in store GW or FLGS is always gonna be extra.


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

Similar issue:

My local GW had an epicwinsausage dawn of War tourney and I was stoked to join....until I realized I had to BUY 500 POINTS WORTH OF STUFF TO PLAY.

Man was I pissed. I had just recently bought the WoC battalion and was looking for a Fantasy game. But oooooh no. All the WHFB players were at home/with each other someplace else because for the following THREE WEEKS it was all this effing WHFB tourney.

Wouldn't have been so bad if my dad hadn't forced me to go to GW every Saturday and Sunday


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

When it comes down to it, as many people have said, they are selling to models not the hobby anymore.

If they change the days when you play, play at someones house etc. until the day when you are alotted to play in the GW with 40k or whatever. Don't try and starve them of your custom because they can always take a hit like that, especially around Xmas when the parents are buying it in bulk as a present. 

You never know, the idea of playing WotR and fantasy might not take off due to lack of support.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

While GW are a business, the manager of your local store seems to be going in the wrong direction. To survive a business must cater to the market, in this case 40k players, and if they don't, they go bust.

Talk to him, ask him why he's gone in this direction, ask if it's pressure from HQ (a mate of mine who used to work for them was told his one-man store had to outperform a three-man store in a larger town). Hopefully you'll get a reasonable answer, otherwise I'd stop going, if only for reasons of personal pride.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

KingOfCheese said:


> Start your own club.
> 
> I have never (and wont ever) play in a store.


Do this.

Out of the 40K vets at your store there should be at least one willing to host something at their place or failing that you guys should be able to set something up elsewhere. Starting your own club is the way to go.


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> Its an unrealistic expectation to think a retail store should also give you a free to play venue just because you have purchased goods from it,plus its far cheaper to buy an odd supplement than to buy and make terrain and gaming boards and/or pay for the upkeep of a club and room hire.
> you buy your army and codex for you, if you want to play in store GW or FLGS is always gonna be extra.


I understand what you are saying, but dude seriously they have three clubs, beginners, core and veterans, all these clubs are free and no where does it say you have to pay for stuff to play here. If they want to make money through the clubs they should start charging a weekly rate of say £2 a night ect. 

We are going off topic here, i just dont feel like i can do the hobby anymore due to some stupid rules that the Gw staff has implemented in the store, i go to meet new people and have fun, i cant do this if their is some stupid game system going on that i dont wish to take part in. If i do not taske part im not allowed to play any other game it just sucks.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Sounds like the manager sucks in some regard. It makes me feel lucky about the manager we have since he interacts more with his customers rather than alienating them and acting all geeky. When in on Saturdays he often listens to us over the lunch half hour we shut for to ask our opinions and balancing of rules in store campaigns that might be coming up. I know he has been rebuked by GW head office a couple of times because he makes enough space for 2 4x4 tables free to play games on at the expense of the introduction tables which he has to accommodate at least 4 foot for each system.

In short just talk to the guy more often and offer a reasonable alternative to just moaning at the guy.


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

The Sullen One said:


> Talk to him, ask him why he's gone in this direction, ask if it's pressure from HQ. Hopefully you'll get a reasonable answer, otherwise I'd stop going, if only for reasons of personal pride.


I have spoke to them, as have others and we were told its because they wanted to see variety in the store not just 40k and the same armies being played, but people tring new things and starting new armies ect.

I fail to see how an organised event will make people do this. Since the manager started doing it, we have lost alot of people who used to play, it is just the managers close friends and others like myself who stay and play.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

The pressure on managers to make money is immense, especially in the last year or so... and its kinda drilled into all staff that a vet only spends on average 1/4 of what a new recruit does. Its not so surprising that some managers act like dickheads towords vets.
Also, any event run by a store _must_ have some reason behind it... and for reason read profit: "to keep vets happy" isn't really a reason as far as GW are concerned.

Then again there are some managers out there who are human and understand that vets are relatively easy to keep happy, help out the store immeasurably in many ways besides money and that if you keep them around once in a while they do reward that patience by just randomly buying a new army.
This is certainly how it is at my local store... but its still recovering after one of the managers about 5 years ago very effectively got rid of all the vets in 1 move, resulting in the store dropping a massive amount of revenue.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Lord Rahl said:


> I understand what you are saying, but dude seriously they have three clubs, beginners, core and veterans, all these clubs are free and no where does it say you have to pay for stuff to play here. If they want to make money through the clubs they should start charging a weekly rate of say £2 a night ect.


Problem is they dont have 3 "clubs" they have three sets of wallets,if your not spending then you are no use to them and the vets are the statistically most likely to not spend.

I would honestly try and grab some veterans and set up on your own, talking to the manager will achieve nothing, he answers to his boss and his boss will be pushing sales and in the current market he will be pushing hard.

Plus its a good time to start a club, the economy is on its arse so it should be easy to get a room for free in a working mens club or a pub in return for a few extra customers. Would take some effort and someone with some resources like a table and scenery but it could be done.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> Its an unrealistic expectation to think a retail store should also give you a free to play venue just because you have purchased goods from it


Then why is it realistic to assume that buying a supplement that you won't use will grant you access to the tables, but not an army which can easily cost $700-$1000? plus paints, templates, codicies, etc.


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## Hooobit (Dec 5, 2010)

Everything that Bitsandkits said pretty much.

Found living rooms and such to be average to play on but models tend to fall over on carpet. A heater and a garage is normally a good shout.


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## notsoevil (Nov 30, 2010)

coke123 said:


> Then why is it realistic to assume that buying a supplement that you won't use will grant you access to the tables, but not an army which can easily cost $700-$1000? plus paints, templates, codicies, etc.


When was that money spent if you're a "vet"?

Last month? Last year? Longer ago?

$700-$1000 doesn't spread out that long when you're running a business.

A business owner is always going to experiment. Change prices. Change policies. If it nets them more money because the vets aren't hogging the tables, he's going to roll with it. If he loses money, he'll change policies again. Vote with your wallet -- if you leaving the store doesn't affect his bottom line, then it doesn't really matter does it?

If you go to a store weekly, at least buy monthly. Most store owners are going to know who buys from them and who doesn't but uses their resources. Buying an army doesn't give you unlimited access to store resources.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

coke123 said:


> Then why is it realistic to assume that buying a supplement that you won't use will grant you access to the tables


I never said it was realistic, that was just the "price" the OP quoted.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Wow... That manager sounds like a real fucker... I would suggest an armed revolution... Gather a bunch a veterans around you, kit yourself out properly, and walk into the Jedi Temple, erh, Hobby Center... 









_Something like that, but consider changing the guns with army cases... For legal reasons..._


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## Kalshinko (Oct 22, 2010)

I'm not saying the store manager is right, He should be able to acomadate everyone. I'm stateside and our manager has no problems but were not a battlebunker or anything like that.

What I wanted to point out is the manager of a store is required to buy and keep in stock certain items. Put it this way if you have all 40k players and nothing else, you are still required by GW to have a certain supply of fantasy. At my local shop fantasy does not sell, our store owner has all this stock of fantasy stuff and can't sell it. Also to note the list of required items changes a lot, so you could see how a store could accumulate a bunch of stock that they are required to have that just does not sell. Maybe your manager is just trying to get rid of the stuff he can't sell.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

First and foremost the store is a shop. If he's forcing people to play fantasy its a business strategy to increase fantasy sales. 

I'd honestly look into joining a GCN club or setting up a gaming club yourselves.


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

You all have very valid points and i agree totally with them, but the fact of the matter is we who are vets do buy regularly at the store and eventho it might not be much, pauints here and there brushes those little boxes of 3-4 blokes it all adds up when you get 20+ peeople doing it. I know they have to keep certain stock in the store but that is not the problem. 

We are being told what we can play and when we can play it, despite buying products reguarly. As for the other "clubs" if they want to make a profit from them, they should do what i said, and charge a weekly rate for the use of store resources.

I would start up my own club buty i have neither the time or money to invest in it, all our homes and garages are out the question as our partners will not allow it. They think it is to much hassle having so many people around at once.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Lord Rahl said:


> I would start up my own club buty i have neither the time or money to invest in it, all our homes and garages are out the question as our partners will not allow it. They think it is to much hassle having so many people around at once.


Well he pretty much has you over a barrel then


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Find a more communal place. Might cost something for loaning it for an evening but they say everything has its price.


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## Coffeemug (Jan 4, 2008)

Things like this have happened in my area as well.

This last year GW USA decided to Fire all managers and staff all the way up to like regional managers, and go with a 1 man run store. I live the Milwaukee Chicago area so I have 2 GW stores that I spent allot of time in. I got to know the managers very well. These guys loved their jobs and stores. They supported the gaming community and ran events that were appropriate to the crowd. They saw the value of the community as a business and got a relay good rep with FLGS’s. ( I know this is not the norm)
I don’t know a time going into one of these stores that there weren’t at least 10-15 people in the store, all of which consistently purchased product form them. I personally would go out of my way to buy new things at these stores because of the management. (I love my FLGS but support for GW was lacking)
When GW removed these guys and hired on a single "Red Shirt" to run the store, things went south FAST. Removal of game space, only open for 7 hours of the day, stupid campaigns, and a pestering to always purchase items or game systems that were not popular. 
I have not been in a GW since this change. I would say that a good 80% of the people that went to these stores vacated to the Local scene. I still love the game, and the Hobby. GW will get my money through the FLGS from now on. In our area it’s “Bad Business” to be only focused on Selling Product. A game store will flourish if it has community support. 
Sorry to hear you don’t have options BTW.
Looks like the basement will be your new choice.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Lord Rahl said:


> We are being told what we can play and when we can play it, despite buying products reguarly.


At my store which isn't owned by GW, certain days of the week are reserved for certain things. Sundays are for 40K open gaming. Thursdays are for Warmahordes. It'd be silly for me to go in on a Thursday and then complain when I can't get a game of 40K in. It's not really much different than what you're describing.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> At my store which isn't owned by GW, certain days of the week are reserved for certain things. Sundays are for 40K open gaming. Thursdays are for Warmahordes. It'd be silly for me to go in on a Thursday and then complain when I can't get a game of 40K in. It's not really much different than what you're describing.


Not really, GW has launched a radical expansion of it's British network, with new one-man stores opening in a lot of towns, most of which don't have a friendly local gaming store. In other words it's either GW or somebody's house/community building, so it makes sense for managers to accomodate their customers, in order to entice them to gaming nights (where they are more likely to splurge on impulse buys).

If most of those play 40k then you go with 40k. At my local GW 40k tends to dominate gaming days, though if there are two players who have brought Warhammer FB armies then there is provision made for them to have a game. There's also something of an understanding that those who've been waiting longest are next in line for a game.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

The Sullen One said:


> Not really, GW has launched a radical expansion of it's British network, with new one-man stores opening in a lot of towns, most of which don't have a friendly local gaming store. In other words it's either GW or somebody's house/community building, so it makes sense for managers to accommodate their customers


But the OP'S manager is accommodating his customers, If anything hes over accommodating because hes covering all systems and expansions, unlike your store were "provisions" would be made for WHFB. 
Just because one system dominates does not mean you only pander to the whims of the players of that system, in business you dont always focus on the stock that sells itself, you have to try and shift the slower moving less popular stuff too because thats stuff cost money to make.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> Just because one system dominates does not mean you only pander to the whims of the players of that system, in business you dont always focus on the stock that sells itself, you have to try and shift the slower moving less popular stuff too because thats stuff cost money to make.


Actually you cater to demand, if demand in a GW store is for 40k then you cater for 40k. Any business will always focus on turning its most successful products into a cashcow. Sure they'll try and accomodate the less successful lines, which in a way is what this guy is doing, but not at the risk of damaging those products that sell very well.

The problem here is that GW has a lot of products which don't sell well. Some because many of us like to stick to what we know, some because GW simply doesn't market them too well. The old manager of my GW tried to get a Bloodbowl campaing going because that was the specialist game people wanted to play. It lasted about two weeks before petering out due to lack of interest.

Similarly early this year he floated the idea of doing a War of the Ring tale of four gamers. It was dropped because everybody wanted to get their hands on the new edition of Warhammer.

Consequently managers have been content to allow 40k to predominate because if it leads to sales they can still meet their targets.


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## Mortigar (Oct 5, 2010)

Have a word with some local pub landlords, im guessing many will have unused rooms they would be happy to either rent out or maybe let you play there for free as they would welcome the extra income from players


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## nightfish (Feb 16, 2009)

I agree with the GW staff on this one. So many people going mad over this but I guess its just spontaneous forum rage.

I wish when I was younger my local GW had done this, especially organising nights with specialist games like Necromunda.


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## Flayed 0ne (Aug 29, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> Problem is they dont have 3 "clubs" they have three sets of wallets,if your not spending then you are no use to them and the vets are the statistically most likely to not spend.


...this is bullshit...i have spent more that 2000 dollars at my GW...if they cant treat me with respect...if i am made to feel as if im "no use" to them...then they are epic fail in thier job and dont deserve a dirty dime of business...you dont treat people that way...especialy in a business... 

...vets play and contribute to the hobby unquestioningly...new players buy big on impulse but a good many of them never stick with it...vets, you KNOW will be back to buy more to keep thier hobby going...foresaking vets is death for business...if it wasnt for "vets" passing the word along over the years (even to thier own children in many cases)...this company would have died out long ago...as it happens...due to the longevity of the hobby and the many many many vets that have stuck with it through the decades (literaly)...it is today the success -they- have made it...

:angry:

ps...the GW rep at my store is cool as hell...to -everyone-...not just 'paying' customers...and his numbers are through the roof...the place is always busy...and the register always ringing...


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## turel2 (Mar 2, 2009)

GW staff can be gits when they try to push Minis to make a profit.

But they are running a business, they just have no subtlety with Vets.


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## Storm of Iron (Nov 18, 2010)

Sounds like your getting the shite end of a somewhat shitty stick, at my local GW in town they have dedicated nights for each game system. for example thursday is Late night for 40k/40kvets tuesday is fantasy and wednesday is LOTR. futhermore we are allowede to decide what/if we want to play planetstrike blah blah blah etc. or just play a standard game of 40k and if we dont have the right suppliment then we are allowed to borrow a copy off the shelf or share a copy with a friend. 

the staff in your local GW sound like arsehole who are only in it for the £££ people whom are like this make my blood boil. Take my GW staff they couldn't do enough for you, a few months back when I started up my IW army again one of the staff sat down with me and had a 4 hour long discussion as to what I should take unit and upgrades etc. and after that we sat down and he helped me write out and any army list.

my two pen'orth

SoI


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## nightfish (Feb 16, 2009)

Flayed 0ne said:


> ...this is bullshit...


Nope its not. All the vets I know play with one army over and over again. It annoys the hell out of the staff as pushing sales doesn't work with them..


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## Kalshinko (Oct 22, 2010)

Lord just have your demon prince lash the manager into traffic or have Eldrad mind war him!!


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## MoreDakka47 (Dec 29, 2009)

I think you need to burn the store to the ground  No but seriouslly creating your own club sounds like the best bet.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

Vote with your wallet. Organize your group of 40k vets, and dont show up except on regular 40k nights. Play at someones house or find another store to go to. If the store becomes a ghost town most of the week GW should change their opinion.

The other thing you can do is complain to the higher ups. If you appeal to GWs sense of hobby you might be able to get more done. "Well im just mad that I spent 50 hours painting these 2 squads of dark eldar warriors and cant even play them for another 2 weeks." Stuff like that.


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## Flayed 0ne (Aug 29, 2010)

@nightfish...

good point...there are some vets i supose that wouldnt be much use to "sales"...but when a new customer comes into a GW and sees lots of people playing...it makes the possible new investment of minis and paints all the more attractive if they know for sure there will be able to actually play them...

...there will always be jackasses on both sides...vets should be a wealth of knowlage that only contributes to the stores all around appeal to a new gamer...

...im still pretty new...and watching the vets at my store play...with thier fully painted armies and commanding grasp of rules and strategy...and thier willingness to help new players....inspires me to acheive the same status in my armies and play style...

...maybe my store is "uncommon" in the fact that its run well and the patrons are solid people...if thats the case...i am very very greatful...


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

Apparently there are people at my LGS who play warmachine/hordes and people who play fantasy. But I never see them because they dont actually play at the store. Well im not interested in going to someones house to play, so I havent gotten into those games. I can see vets not showing up impacting GWs sales. So when the stores taken a loss in sales over say a month or two they might realize their error.

What you have to remember is that you are buying their product, they work for you.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Flayed 0ne said:


> ...this is bullshit...i have spent more that 2000 dollars at my GW...if they cant treat me with respect...if i am made to feel as if im "no use" to them...then they are epic fail in thier job and dont deserve a dirty dime of business...you dont treat people that way...especialy in a business...


You say its bullshit but in the next breath your spending $2000, so its not bullshit, your spending so you are important to them, if you were not spending such vast amounts you would be a complete non entity,you completely missed the point.

Lets approach this another way, Lets say you want to get into golf, there is a golf club nearby with an 18 hole course, shop,bar and health club attached.
You walk into the shop and buy a full set of clubs and some clothes,shoes and a nice hat and a book on how to play, So your all set to go right? tee off at hole number one? 
No, because you are not a member,you havent paid for member ship, you have the equipment, but the club requires you to pay on a regular basis for the use of the facilities, So that means you might have to fork out more than just the initial costs in some way, in wargaming this could mean that in some places it will be pay per week, some places it will be picking up a supplement or a 500 point army or what ever, The price and frequency will be set by the guy holding the keys to the door.

SO back to the golf, you have the kit,you know how to play and your a member ! all ready to play ? Yes! ,but you want to play golf on wednesday mornings and wednesday morning is reserved for Ladies golf and your not a lady, so your choices are grow a vagina and tits or find some where else to play.


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## ChugginDatHaterade (Nov 15, 2010)

I could understand if this was on a daily rotation. Like monday/thursday are 40k, tuesday/friday are fantasy, and wednesday/saturday are lotr. But saying you cant play for 2 weeks is pretty bad.


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> SO back to the golf, you have the kit,you know how to play and your a member ! all ready to play ? Yes! ,but you want to play golf on wednesday mornings and wednesday morning is reserved for Ladies golf and your not a lady, so your choices are grow a vagina and tits or find some where else to play.


Or you find a rich friend who IS a member and you play for free with him! Great success!










Mmmmmm.... though that pond is a bitch with my slice.

Now, actually on topic, that system seems really weird, but understandable. They need to sell merchandise, and the best way to do that is showing off every variation of the game. Planetstrike helps them sell fortifications, Apoc day helps them sell crazy big shit, etc.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

ChugginDatHaterade said:


> I could understand if this was on a daily rotation. Like monday/thursday are 40k, tuesday/friday are fantasy, and wednesday/saturday are lotr. But saying you cant play for 2 weeks is pretty bad.


He can play, just doesnt want to play 40k planet strike because he does not want to buy the supplement, which reads like "im just here to use you tables" which is perfectly understandable, but the tables are games workshops to do with as they want. its just a rock and a hard place choice, buy the supplement and play something you dont want to or dont and dont play.

If it were me i would just give it a break for a week or two, stay home get some painting done or relax and go back when its back to normal.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Boc said:


> Or you find a rich friend who IS a member and you play for free with him! Great success!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because hes going to vets night, which means its one night a week


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

bitsandkits said:


> Because hes going to vets night, which means its one night a week


Aye, figured that out and edited the post haha.


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

See, it's amusing, because someone is arguing with a guy who runs a retail outlet on successful retail strategies.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

nightfish said:


> especially organising nights with specialist games like Necromunda.


difference there is they would be organising games people might be interested in, and are cheaper to do, instead of crappy games like planetstrike and fantasy.


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## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

not realy VETERAN night if your not a Veteran in your game. I don't play Fantasy or WOTR (i can play the latter but i chose not to a it's crap). I would hate it if i was forced to play Fantasy or not play at all. I don't know the first thing about half the armys other than Great wepaons give you plus 2 strength but you strike last and how the special rules "cold Blooded" works.
Sometimes i won't get a game ion as there arn't enough tables or no one plays the system that i have (often more of problem 2 years ago when i played LOTR only) but being such as dick to say "you can't play unless you own every book/rules and even modals for each army/system then i have to say [email protected]#k them. My local i nice but thye know not to try that s#1t and to be onest if they do jsut tell them where to stick it, orginise everyone else at the Vet's night and take away there beisness on mass.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

jaws900 said:


> not realy VETERAN night if your not a Veteran in your game. I don't play Fantasy or WOTR (i can play the latter but i chose not to a it's crap). I would hate it if i was forced to play Fantasy or not play at all. I don't know the first thing about half the armys other than Great wepaons give you plus 2 strength but you strike last and how the special rules "cold Blooded" works.
> Sometimes i won't get a game ion as there arn't enough tables or no one plays the system that i have (often more of problem 2 years ago when i played LOTR only) but being such as dick to say "you can't play unless you own every book/rules and even modals for each army/system then i have to say [email protected]#k them. My local i nice but thye know not to try that s#1t and to be onest if they do jsut tell them where to stick it, orginise everyone else at the Vet's night and take away there beisness on mass.


But the situation your describing isn't what's happening, The dude running the shop is rotating the games so that all systems are played, which prevents people getting left out in the cold, hes also cleverly said we are playing planet strike and to play you will need your own book, not such a bad request if you want to play the games and at this time of year a manager will be focussing people on big purchases like scenery packs, i wouldnt be surprised if they are pushing starter sets, mega paint sets, brush packs and all the other big extras like battle forces too, wonder why they are doing that?? wonder why they might be focusing players on a game that might entice them to buy say a fortress of redemption or a bastion or two?

People are always quick to jump on the anti GW band wagon and expose the big GW "they only want our money conspiracy", this thread is just a guy fucked off because the manager of his store has the forsight/stones to put the shops bottom line before the whims of a set of customers who statistically dont spend that much and when they do its not normally in the shop. And the OP has stated he does not have the time,money or the inclination to do anything about it, moral of the story "dont play in stores join a real club"

Same goes for specialist games, if they made enough money they would be in stores, but they dont, so they aren't, i miss them too but i dont need to play them in a shop to enjoy them, people in clubs are much more receptive to the idea of blowing the dust off an old copy of dark future or gorkamorka.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

at my local stores there's usually a "mega battle" once a month for one of GWs systems (2/3 of the time its 40k since thats most popular) where everyone brings 1k points of their army of choice.

sometimes its something from planet strike, apocalypse, or battle missions & we will KNOW about it before hand. which will entice some of us to but that book out of curiosity alone...like whats the mission statement/objectives/special rules.

honestly since neither of the two stores i game at are GW store have impromptu requirements of what i need to play that night, other than my army & stuff, i buy from them.

IF i was required to buy something to play that i didnt plan on buying THAT DAY/ever then i dont see an issue with this manager. but if its a bit like my "mega battle" scenario where next time we play 40k its gonna be planet strike, you will need a copy of the book to play...then the only person that needs to make that choice is each individual player


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

@bitandkits

I dont have the time or money to START my own club, i would rather spend the money on new minis and my time painting them. Also we are not allowed to borrow a friends supplement, we HAVE to own a copy to play. I know how you are thinking as afterall you have your own buissness, but i think you have missed the point completly, i was asked to leave and find somwhere else to play if i did not want/agree to play in the organised event.

We have had a planetstrike battle twice already and i dont see the point to it, i would rather play a standard game, on one of the spare tables, But no im not allowed, i've been told its said game or leave. 

Ps. After a group of us spoke what we thought, we have now had our time cut in store, it used to be 4.30-8.00 Open gaming, but now its 4.30-5.30 open gaming then the said system has to be played, if you do not take part you have to leave. This can't be good for buissness, asking customers to leve because they choose not to play the said game.


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## BLANK (Mar 14, 2009)

I agree with Bits and Kits here, at my Local GW, we have a few players that buy things online and come in and play and gladly advertise this, in my opinion right there the store staff if they wanted to have the right to boot them out as they are essentially destroying the customer base it has. 

We also have those whom I agree with in that if you don't buy things from the GW you shouldn't play there as you are essentially going in there and saying something along the lines of I have an xbox I bought second hand for $100 and then going to a mates house and using his tv, couch, electricity and net connection because you dont have them at your place and not letting him join in.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Lord Rahl said:


> @bitandkits
> 
> I dont have the time or money to START my own club, i would rather spend the money on new minis and my time painting them. Also we are not allowed to borrow a friends supplement, we HAVE to own a copy to play. I know how you are thinking as afterall you have your own buissness, but i think you have missed the point completly, i was asked to leave and find somwhere else to play if i did not want/agree to play in the organised event.
> 
> ...



Lord im not sure if your looking for sympathy or advice but realistically the best advice has already been given and the why's and wherefores of your situation are not going to change by anything said in this forum, Yes it sucks to be you, but you are at the mercy of the store manager because its his store.

That said if he has truly advised you to "sling your hook" so to speak then im going to go out on a limb and say that your level of custom is not sufficient for him to tolerate you playing in store, Is that good for business? not really but neither is having people in store taking up playing space from paying customers or players in store who undermine the manager and his promotional ideas? out of interest how much do you spend between 4.30 to 8.00 per week? i have a figure in my head, but the reality is we are in an anonymous forum so you can pluck a figure out of thin air and we wouldnt know any better, but i suspect that you want to use the GW facilities at either little or no cost to your self on your terms because the alternative is not attractive, so you are back to square one. 

You have to do whats right for you in the end, if the manager is only out for money/sales and he sees this as a way to get it, that's his choice and i doubt anything you say or do will change that,its his lively-hood after all, But re-reading your posts it feels a bit more like he simply has an issue with you or people like you and is being diplomatic about how he goes about asking you to find someplace more suitable to play.


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

Im not looking for sympathy or advice, just trying to vent some frustraion and see others opinions of the sucumstance. I do spend a fair bit in the store and i have also started up an after school club for the kids on my local estate. They have all got into the game and spent obscene amounts of money in the store getting started, does the manager care 'NO' they do not. Do i get paid by the school 'YES' and the money i get goes straight into the store each week for new minis ect. Im not going to disscuss how much i get and spend as i feel that is a private matter. 

I do get annoyed though, when i have made the store money (through promotion of my own) and support the store by spending money, to have it thrown back in my face.

On a side note it's not just me, there are others who feel this way aswell. As a whole i could'nt say how much the others spend and its not my place to say, but we all help generate income for the store only to have it throen back at us.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Lord Rahl said:


> Im not looking for sympathy or advice, just trying to vent some frustraion and see others opinions of the sucumstance. I do spend a fair bit in the store and i have also started up an after school club for the kids on my local estate. They have all got into the game and spent obscene amounts of money in the store getting started, does the manager care 'NO' they do not. Do i get paid by the school 'YES' and the money i get goes straight into the store each week for new minis ect. Im not going to disscuss how much i get and spend as i feel that is a private matter.
> 
> I do get annoyed though, when i have made the store money (through promotion of my own) and support the store by spending money, to have it thrown back in my face.
> 
> On a side note it's not just me, there are others who feel this way aswell. As a whole i could'nt say how much the others spend and its not my place to say, but we all help generate income for the store only to have it throen back at us.


Cool, walk away then, its obvious that the manager in question isnt interested in the money if you are spending or having other spend in the store, its got to be you and the others hes not happy with.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Lord Rahl said:


> I understand what you are saying, but dude seriously they have three clubs, beginners, core and veterans, all these clubs are free and no where does it say you have to pay for stuff to play here. If they want to make money through the clubs they should start charging a weekly rate of say £2 a night ect.
> 
> We are going off topic here, i just dont feel like i can do the hobby anymore due to some stupid rules that the Gw staff has implemented in the store, i go to meet new people and have fun, i cant do this if their is some stupid game system going on that i dont wish to take part in. If i do not taske part im not allowed to play any other game it just sucks.


Then shut up and move on. If you didn't want to discuss you shouldn't have posted. this dramatic "I'm leaving the hobby" bull. Ithelps noone, and pisses off a lot.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Lord Rahl said:


> The problem is the Gw staff who is running the store has stopped open gaming on vets night and introduced some crappy weekly system rota, one week will be 40k, the next week lort, followed by fantasy. They have stopped us using the gaming tables and have 1 table alloted for the weeks event.
> 
> They have also said if you do not buy the relivant supplement or start in another system you cannot play in the store that week. This week it is going to be a planetstrike week.


How hard can it be to tell a nerd to get out of your way? Seriously Lotr sucks dick, just inform them of that.

That or just be like "Yeah I forgot my book" then politely ask them to provide a demo of the other games.

Or just don't show up the weeks when they do gay shit. We're not a magic eight ball dude.


Or shit give me the places number and shop hours. I'll record me trolling them relentlessly and post it up here.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

For once LordWaffles made me smile =) The thought of you trolling an establishment somewhere warmed my heart.

@the OP - Seems like its mostly been said. Either B&K is right and there's a personal issue between the manager and you/vets or he's under pressure to raise sales on those other systems/supplements. If you're a jerk, then you're reaping what you've sown. If he's under pressure (or just short sighted) then he might be needlessly draconian, however if his job is on the line then he may well be scared and willing to cut off his nose to sell his face.

Its just a matter of where the investment is in the grand scheme of things. The veterans are the guys who are in it for the long haul. In most cases they will buy each new system/core rules when they're rewritten, they'll update thier armies with the new codex, and they want to keep playing for years. Keeping veterans happy is an investment in the player base over the long term. Besides which, having a healthy crop of vets shows off the latter stage of gaming: players who know the rules fluently, have well painted armies, and can discuss the game & hobby intelligently. My old store did its best when there was a moderate group of vets and a moderate group of new comers. The new comers wanted to watch and learn from the vets, and the vets enjoyed having new people to play against. And there were always people around wanting to get a game in. A healthy population is a sign of a good store. Alienating one part of the gamer population in favor of the other doesn't seem to be good business. (When my local games store became less friendly they lost a whole generation of players and it took them a few years to recover a solid group.)

The other major consideration for a GW store is that many players don't have their own place to play. Part of the investment in the miniatures is the implicit expactation that GW offers a place where they can come at reasonably appointed times and play. If the manager removes the time when the OP can get a game in, the manager has also removed the opportunity/possiblity to play. He might not be thinking about it that way. Or he might be hoping to strong arm all of the vets into buying more secondary material. If there are many and more 40k players who aren't going for his new gambit then he'll eventually have to back down - or risk losing their/your business.

BUT to be fair, you guys aren't buying a new mega-paint set or an army box every month or even every week, and those sales are mighty attractive for a GW store manager. I'm just summarizing here, but if you and the vets make up that big a percentage of his sales - then boycott the store, shop ebay (or Bits and Kits!), and start your own club for a few months. It might be better all around. But if its not, after a few months the manager may well notice the gap in his sales where you vets used to be.

I know I'd be pissed if I were in your place, if for no other reason than it is a drastic change to the relationship. Heretofore, you have been able to expect that you spend money now and again, and you can come play 1 night a week. And as you tell it, without warning that expectations has been upset. That is also bad for business. That's like selling somebody a warranty (or other continued service they can expect) and then changing the terms of the agreement without warning. 

Kreuger out.


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