# Thousand Sons successors?



## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I was just reading some fluff on the Blood Ravens, and the similarity between them and the preHeresy Thousand Sons is striking. They both have a higher than average number of psykers and they have an insatiable thirst for knowledge, so much so that they are both willing to get too close to Chaos than is comfortable for the Imperium. Also, the fact that the BRs don't know their origins is intriguing.

Would anyone else agree that there is a possibility that they are the remnants of a loyal faction of the Thousand Sons? It's a stretch, I know, especially considering they were only created recently for a computer game, but there's no harm in speculating.


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## CallumM27 (Mar 20, 2008)

I think its true to because in the resent HH book Battle for the Abbys the TS Motep says near the end when fighting a daemon "Knowledge is power" which is the BR's battle cry. The psyker thing is a pretty big connection to.


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## Fhadhq (Jun 12, 2008)

in one book for the Blood Ravens (sorry have read the omnibus,so not sure which), a chaos sorceror tries to add a BR librarian to his bunch of psykers.
He insists of the BR as "brother" and "of the same blood (primarch)".
TS => BR k:


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## Madmcc (Jul 29, 2008)

Its been a while since I've read the Dawn of War series, but wasn't the reason for them having a higher percentage of psykers due to the population of there primary recruitment planet?


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## rgw (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm fairly positive that Blood Ravens are in some way descendant of the Thousand Sons. So I've made it a personal mission to kill as many of the heretic scum as I can. Besides, we Dark Angels like being the only chapter with a dark secret.

Get a new "thing" Blood Ravens, wasn't being in a series of video games enough?

Seriously though, I like killing Blood Ravens.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

The only thing better than killing Blood Ravens is killing cowardly Dark Angels, its more of a challenge though because they always run when they should be fighting.

When it comes to the BR and TS, I'd think that it wasn't a oyal faction that they come from but rather geneseed of the traitor legion that the mechanicum did not destroy. (If the heresy taught anything about them, its that they always have other agendas.)


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## safeinacell (Aug 27, 2008)

I'm dubious about this, after all the successor chapters didn't come into being until Guilliman's restructuring in the aftermath of the Heresy, so this would be after the Space Wolves burned Prospero.
On the other hand the Thousand Sons left in a hurry, so it's possible that some gene seed was taken by Imperial forces, to be used to propagate a new chapter. This seems unlikely, however as the Imperials would probably destroy the genetic material of a proven traitor legion.
Of course, Thousand Sons are followers of Tzeentch, so another plausible scenario could involve a convoluted plot to contaminate the Imperium's genetic resources using the Thousand Son's gene seed covertly. Would take some doing though.


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

I thought it might have been the Word Bearers they successors of. Maybe a loyal faction, it said battle brother fought battle brother throught the Imperium. But Thousand Sons would seem more plausible. Has anyone heard of the 'Sons of Prospero' who went rogue sometime in the Imperium's history. Maybe there were loyalits on many sides of the conflict who were later founded into loyalist chapters and there origins shrouded in mystery. :secret:


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## ironhammer (Aug 14, 2008)

well I do find it odd that that the Blood Raven's color scheme matches so much with pre-herecy thousand sons, and their nature is apparantly simmilar as well. Besides is it so far fetched to believe that after the herecy any Thousand sons that did not escape (mabey captered) would be exhonorated and be allowed to go forth and seek to redeem their primarch's name?


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## ironhammer (Aug 14, 2008)

Well I Say Not!!!


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

ironhammer said:


> Besides is it so far fetched to believe that after the herecy any Thousand sons that did not escape (mabey captered) would be exhonorated and be allowed to go forth and seek to redeem their primarch's name?


I'm inclined to say yes actually; the whole deal with the burning of Prospero is that Horus played on Russ's hatred of sorcery to have him deal with Magnus. Knowing that Russ and his wolves would spare none of the Thousand Sons, but counting on Magnus to pull something desperate and side with him later.


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## safeinacell (Aug 27, 2008)

ironhammer said:


> Besides is it so far fetched to believe that after the herecy any Thousand sons that did not escape (mabey captered) would be exhonorated and be allowed to go forth and seek to redeem their primarch's name?


Well, yes I do find that hard to swallow, this is the Imperium we're talking about, after all. Not exactly the most reasonable people the galaxy has ever seen. Consider the punishment for a heretic is quite often permanent, indeed, often fatal. Compound this with the point that the Thousand Sons are guilty of things I believe the Inquisition terms "Witchcraft" and "Diabolus Extremis", and you have the recipe for a very large bonfire.
And thats before we get started on the whole "traitors that broke their oaths to the Emperor" thing, and you know, I think the Imperium frowns on that somewhat.
Oh, and as for any that were captured by the Space Wolves? Again, not reasonable people and keep in mind that the Sons of Russ were turned loose on Prospero after Magnus, and therefore by implication the whole legion, disobeyed a direct order from the Emperor to discontinue the practice of scorcery.


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

It very well could happen. After all, even though the tsons are now traitors in the extreme, they were actually still loyal when the Space Wolves attacked them. Also, the Emperor ordered Magnus be brought alive, so it is quite possible that the Emperor was trying to recreate the Tsons again in a better way.

Who is to say that the Blood Ravens are not that recreation?

Also, I believe it said somewhere that the traitors' geneseed was still kept frozen...


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

There is 1, if not 2, definite Thousand Sons successors.
If I remember the record correctly, they were an attempt to halt the drastic mutation of the Thousand Sons geneseed, by the Imperium. Don't remember where I read this.. But it also told of an Emperor's Children successor as well, that is pro-Imperial.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

safeinacell said:


> Well, yes I do find that hard to swallow, this is the Imperium we're talking about, after all. Not exactly the most reasonable people the galaxy has ever seen. Consider the punishment for a heretic is quite often permanent, indeed, often fatal. Compound this with the point that the Thousand Sons are guilty of things I believe the Inquisition terms "Witchcraft" and "Diabolus Extremis", and you have the recipe for a very large bonfire.
> And thats before we get started on the whole "traitors that broke their oaths to the Emperor" thing, and you know, I think the Imperium frowns on that somewhat.


If you read about the Badab War the Mantis Warriors, Executioners and Lamenters were all pardoned even after commiting treason. So it is plausible that loyalist rememnants of the thousand sons were pardoned and presumably kept secret to protect them.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

> So it is plausible that loyalist rememnants of the thousand sons were pardoned and presumably kept secret to protect them.


Especially if they were nowhere near Prospero when the SWs arrived and Magnus fled to the Warp. There were components of the Legions spread all over the various warzones, so conceivably it's possible that a company or even chapter didn't know about it all until after the fact.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Maybe some of the Tsons escaped when the Legion turned traitor and had a Flight of the Eisenstien type of journey back to Terra. Garro was let off after all.


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## itsonlyme (Aug 22, 2008)

safeinacell said:


> I'm dubious about this, after all the successor chapters didn't come into being until Guilliman's restructuring in the aftermath of the Heresy, so this would be after the Space Wolves burned Prospero.
> On the other hand the Thousand Sons left in a hurry, so it's possible that some gene seed was taken by Imperial forces, to be used to propagate a new chapter. This seems unlikely, however as the Imperials would probably destroy the genetic material of a proven traitor legion.
> Of course, Thousand Sons are followers of Tzeentch, so another plausible scenario could involve a convoluted plot to contaminate the Imperium's genetic resources using the Thousand Son's gene seed covertly. Would take some doing though.


I thought marines had to send a % of the gene seed back to detect for mutation and the like, i think its pretty conceivable that the imperium has all the traitor legions gene seeds locked away, only difference between the the thousand sons and the other traitor legions is the emperor turned his back on them.

So yeah, i think you can say i agree that everything points to the blood ravens being made from the thousand sons gene seed 



Khorne's Fist said:


> Especially if they were nowhere near Prospero when the SWs arrived and Magnus fled to the Warp. There were components of the Legions spread all over the various warzones, so conceivably it's possible that a company or even chapter didn't know about it all until after the fact.


Well you would think that is the thousand sons can send a message to the emperor using forbidden lore then perhaps they could message each other.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

itsonlyme said:


> Well you would think that is the thousand sons can send a message to the emperor using forbidden lore then perhaps they could message each other.


Not so. Magnus had to use a huge amount of power to contact the Emperor, so much so he breached the tunnel the Emperor was trying to link to the webway. They wouldn't use that kind of power to contact small detachments half the galaxy away.


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## itsonlyme (Aug 22, 2008)

Khorne's Fist said:


> Not so. Magnus had to use a huge amount of power to contact the Emperor, so much so he breached the tunnel the Emperor was trying to link to the webway. They wouldn't use that kind of power to contact small detachments half the galaxy away.


what when the chapter is being wiped out, its hardly like its a desperate situation or anything, you would think infact that they would want to warn their brothers of what the imperium had done.


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

It's a stretch indeed, however, stranger things have happened in the 40k universe. You only have to look at the Flight of the Eisenstein novel and the subsequent promotions of Nathanial Garro to be able to make this speculation conceivable.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

EDIT: sorry, Digg posted in the meantime: this is _contra_ Itsonlyme, and in support of the position put forward by Digg and Khorne's Fist... Essentially, I think Garro is a good comparison.

What Magnus did, personally, was use his sorcerous power (as the second-most powerful sorcerer produced by humanity) to contact the Emperor of Humanity (the most powerful sorcerer humanity had produced), to tell him that the Warmaster, the field Commander of _all the human armies_, had turned traitor. This is pretty high level stuff.

What you're suggesting is that he'd think it as important, or even be able, to psychically radio a few sergeants, captains or librarians scattered throughout the Galaxy to tell them that the K-Sons were under attack from the Space Wolves, _while that attack was going on_.

He might have done; he might not, it maybe not being _quite_ as important as the first message. He might have tried, and not been able, because of a lack of 'transmitting/receiving power' (the first psychic email was to the _Emperor_ remember); or because he was in the middle of a planetary invasion by the SWs. He might have tried, got through, and the scattered companies of the K-Sons may not have been able to return to Prospero in time. He may have got through, only to find that some of the Librarians and Captains said "**** you, you crazy red cyclops, we told you messing with sorcery was a bad idea, we're of to beg forgiveness from the Emperor, maybe he'll let us form the Blood Ravens."

:red cyclops:


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## itsonlyme (Aug 22, 2008)

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this matter because frankly i dont think thats how the blood ravens got their gene seed anyways. As i said i think its more likely that they got their gene seed from the repository of gene seed stored within the imperium. Im also pretty sure that blood ravens arnt a second founding chapter (unless this has changed of course, im not 100% up to date on the current fluff).


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

itsonlyme said:


> I think we will have to agree to disagree on this matter because frankly i dont think thats how the blood ravens got their gene seed anyways. As i said i think its more likely that they got their gene seed from the repository of gene seed stored within the imperium. Im also pretty sure that blood ravens arnt a second founding chapter (unless this has changed of course, im not 100% up to date on the current fluff).


It's all just speculation mate it's no worries. I don't think anybody said they were a second founding chapter, I certainly wasn't implying that they were. They could have been created at any founding post-heresy and still from Thousand Sons stock.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Hey no worries; I just don't think warning the Emperor of Horus's treachery can be compared to warning some detatchments of the Space Wolves attack.

Not sure what a "Secound Founding Chapter" would mean in this instance anyway. If they're descended from either K-Sons geneseed, or are loyal K-Sons - let's stick to "if" - they're probably not going to advertise the fact; and the Blood Ravens' origins (including foundation date), geneseed and Primarch are unknown.

But, you're right, those things on their own don't mean the BR *are* loyal K-Sons, or have their gene-see. But, from where I'm standing, they mean that the BR *might* be loyal K-Sons or use their geneseed.

:still a big red cyclops:


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## itsonlyme (Aug 22, 2008)

Digg40k said:


> It's all just speculation mate it's no worries. I don't think anybody said they were a second founding chapter, I certainly wasn't implying that they were. They could have been created at any founding post-heresy and still from Thousand Sons stock.


Well the way i see it is if that they were from loyal thousand sons (well strictly they were all loyal till the emperor threw a hissy fit  ) then when they split the legions with the 2nd founding logically this is when the Blood Ravens would have been founded and more logically they would just be hiding with the other chapters. As they arnt and just unknown i think it seems likely that due to problems with creating new chapters (gene seed mutation, cursed founding, etc) they looked at other sources. Seeing as they still have the gene seed from the traitor legions they may have tried the thousand sons. Thats my take atleast, this would also explain all the unknowns about the chapter.


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## wildboar66 (Aug 29, 2008)

It was suggested in the codex’s that white dwarf ran a couple of years ago that the Blood ravens had a closer link to the Dark angels then the Blood angels or Raven guard. But of course the fluff on them could have changed by now.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

maybe they were created when geneseed was a low point and either some malfunctioning servitor picked up the wrong stock from stored traitor protogens or some sleeper agent of chaos whos in the mechanicum did it for some insidious plan in the far future. 

best i could come up with, sorry.


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