# Can Constatin Valador beat every chapter master 1 on 1



## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Do you guys think Constatin Valador (leader of the adeptus Custodes) could beat every chapter master 1 on 1,.............


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## Blueberrypop (Apr 27, 2010)

Does the emperor count?


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Blueberrypop said:


> Does the emperor count?


no, of course constatin would get destroyed by the emperor

im talking chapter masters, not the primarchs, but guys like magnus and that

*
if i remember correctly didn't constatin use to spar with horus, and did exceptionly good against him* someone tell me if this is true or not


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## Blueberrypop (Apr 27, 2010)

Well it depends on what the situation they are fighting in


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

I'm assuming you mean "modern" chapter masters like Dante and Grimnar. Hard to call but I'd say Valdor would beat most of them, assuming he's still alive. Valdor is/was master of the custodes and custodes are generally regarded as being stronger and better equipped than most astartes. 

"The custodes were the product of an older, formative process, a process, some said, that had been refined and simplified to produce the Astartes en masse. Generally, custodes were larger and more powerful than Astartes, but the differences were only noticeably significant in a few specific cases. No one would be foolish enough to predict the outcome of a contest between an Astartes and a custodes." Dan Abnett in Tales of Heresy p29.



Emperorguard500 said:


> if i remember correctly didn't constatin use to spar with horus, and did exceptionly good against him[/B] someone tell me if this is true or not


"It is not possible to say,’ replied the master of the custodes. ‘As one who knew the Warmaster well, I cannot believe it is overweening pride or ambition that has inspired this infamy, nor resentment. I believe—’" Dan Abnett in Tales of Heresy p30.

Judging from this it's quite possible Valdor sparred with Horus at some point.


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## grimdarkness (Apr 19, 2010)

Emperorguard500 said:


> no, of course constatin would get destroyed by the emperor
> 
> im talking chapter masters, not the primarchs, but guys like magnus and that
> 
> ...


I remeber reading that he beat Horus in single combat, which is how he gained Russ' respect. but dnt quote me on that, i can't remeber where i read it.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

a custode is in general better in everyway to an astarte. therefore it is logical to assume that mr valador can open a can of "whoop-ass" on just about any1 he pleases. now dont quote me on this but id say that the most veteran of the custodes is on par of a primarch - at least imo they are - now when we add in weapons & armor it starts to lean to primarchs but if they are just sparing or such...


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Fallen said:


> but id say that the most veteran of the custodes is on par of a primarch


I strongly disagree.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

In answer to the OP - yes, I would say so, in general. The master of the custodes was apparently quite the bitch slapper.

As for him being on par with a primarch - hell no.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

If they were on par with a primarch then the battle for Terra would have gone differently.


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

Ye Valador could beat any chapter master he comes across, but compared to primarchs, they'll need to get a new custodes general


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Valdors dead Isn't He?

To be fair one of the 1k sons came very close to killing him, But started to "spawnify" just before he put in the killing blow. 

The idea of the ordinary custodies being on par with primarch is absurd though


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## grimdarkness (Apr 19, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> If they were on par with a primarch then the battle for Terra would have gone differently.


weren't they all busy fighting in the webway during the siege? or was that just before?


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

grimdarkness said:


> weren't they all busy fighting in the webway during the siege? or was that just before?


Them and the sisters of silence, yes.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

grimdarkness said:


> weren't they all busy fighting in the webway during the siege? or was that just before?





Baltar said:


> Them and the sisters of silence, yes.


I was under the impression the battles in the Webway between the Custodes/Sisters and the Daemonic hordes occured following Magnus' warning - many years before the Siege of Terra. The Custodes/Sisters were able to hold off the Daemons until the Emperor brought his powers to bear to seal the Imperial Webway portal. During the Siege of Terra, the Custodes would have therefore been involved in the fighting for the palace rather than fighting in the Webway (The Emperor having the Webway situation contained as long as he was on the Golden Throne).


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## grimdarkness (Apr 19, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I was under the impression the battles in the Webway between the Custodes/Sisters and the Daemonic hordes occured following Magnus' warning - many years before the Siege of Terra. The Custodes/Sisters were able to hold off the Daemons until the Emperor brought his powers to bear to seal the Imperial Webway portal. During the Siege of Terra, the Custodes would have therefore been involved in the fighting for the palace rather than fighting in the Webway (The Emperor having the Webway situation contained as long as he was on the Golden Throne).


just had a quick read of the relevent parts of CV and it seems you're right, they had retreated from the webway by the time of the siege.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I seriously doubt a somehow-time-travelling Valdor would be able to defear a Chapter Master with a millennium of combat experience under his belt--such as Commander Dante. The level of skill and accuracy Dante could bring to bear would be inhuman; his defensive ability--from his knowledge of fighting systems to his understanding of the timing behind blows--would border on the prescient.

Frankly, gaming rules just don't do justice to individuals such as Kharn, Abaddon, Dante, etc., when it comes to close combat. Those guys shouldn't even bother rolling--it should be more a question of "how badly did they hurt you?"


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

I have reason to believe that Valdor is alive, because space marines can not die from old age (the age as far as i know though...), we so far know Valador that was not killed or severly injured during the Horus Heresy (as it would be quite a significant event and mentioned in the collect visions or somewhere, and he was in the company/protection of the space wolves, Custodies and Silent sisters) so he isnt in a dreadnought, and as the Custodes dont leave Terra (well very rarely..) we can assume he wasnt killed in action outside of Terra..

so my prediction is that hes alive somewhere in the palace of Terra but wearing some kind of superior armour that acts as a life support system and kinda looks like Dante's armour.

as for Valdor against Dante, i would say Dante would be beaten as Dante is weaker than the Sanquinor who is not a chapter master ( and is to believed Azkaellon, the lone surviving Sanguinary guard from the Horus Heresy) and if the sanguinor is from the Horus Heresy than he would be 10 millenia old (and he can still kick Dante's ass at that age)

woah that was a lot to write.. had to get it off my mind


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Remember as far as we know Valdor wasn't even at terra at the time of the seige, but was held up with the space wolves after prospero.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Barnster said:


> Remember as far as we know Valdor wasn't even at terra at the time of the seige, but was held up with the space wolves after prospero.


What Valdor was up to during the Heresy is part of the confusion of the period.

He appears in _Blood Games_, _A Thousand Sons_, _Prospero Burns_, and _Nemesis_ so far.

Throughout _Blood Games_ he is on Terra, even though it is set during/post-Burning of Prospero. He is also involved to some extent in the assassination attempt of Horus in _Nemesis_ (so not on Terra). And I guess he will more than likely take part in the Siege of Terra when the Heresy novels get there. So all in all he seems to be able to be in more than one place at a time.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

From what i just found out, and by good speculation....


i think a highly trained and powerful custode would be slightly under a primarch...

valador is pretty effin powerful...


as from what i remember

*Valador beat Horus in a sparring match*


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

"slightly under a primarch"

Yeah, like a 12 year old is under a titan. Valdor is not just any custode, he's the equivalent of a chapter master to a standard marine, compared to a normal custode.

A normal custode is roughly equal to a space marine, with differences (not greater - different).

There was literally an entire legion of custodes - if they were even almost as powerful as a primarch then - Horus - no problems. That legion alone could destroy all the other legions on their own.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

_@Emperorguard500_: for the record its Valdor not Valador. 

Im completely with _Baltar_ on this one, Valdor or any other custodes were/are no way near the level of strength/intelligence/wisdom/aggression/tactical acumen (etc) that a Primarch maintains.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

In older fluff Custodies were in all respects similar in attributes and biology to normal space marines, but their training was completely different, focusing on defensive engagement and higher independant thought and awareness.

Primarchs were avatars of war, godlike people (child-like though) Custodians were an important part of the defense and beat traitors due to their disipline, training and awareness, not because they were god-like


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hmm I'm going with no. 

Most of the current chapter masters seem to have been fighting against the most fearsome opponents in the galaxy for hundreds of years. Valdor might have been a fearsome warrior but most of his engagements seem to have been at the side of the emperor not to mention that he wasn't on a constant battle footing and spent a lot of his time operating as a political entity. 

I can't see people like Calgar (who once punched an Avatar to death) Dante, Grimmnar or even Azrael going down to such a man. Those guys are quite often described as having battle records exceeded only by their respective Primarchs. On top of that Valdor is only going to have 200 maybe 300 years of experience. Dante and Logan have at least 500 years.


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## Zenith_of_Mind (Mar 12, 2010)

I think it has already been said, but I'll simply add that Valdor wouldn't be nowhere near a match for a Primarch. In one of the HH novels, I think it was _False Gods_, we can see Horus killing a dozen Custodes with ease until Emperor intervenes and stops him. It was a vision, but I'm pretty certain the scenario would be the same if it had happened for real.

Valdor could be a match for some chapter masters, but I haven't read enough info on him to be sure. I will say yes, but again, I can't really back it up.


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## vortex_13 (Apr 17, 2010)

Wasn't Valdor said to be larger than the other custodes? Almost the size of Horus?


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