# Empire or Vampires?



## hippogryph (Oct 26, 2008)

First post for a first time fantasy gamer!:biggrin: So I'm trying to choose between vampires and Empire for my Fantasy army. At my shop there are a few fantasy players but 40k currently rules the house. So I'm trying to generate more fantasy interest. To this end I come to the heresy boys for some help on army selection. (sorry this was long.)

So what's good about the Empire? It seems they have alot of infantry selections and that's about it. And vamps seem to be a very good army with few weak spots. So really if I could get some more info from what others have experienced with and against these armies I would appreciate it. 

Thanks in advance


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

empire have the most core choice of any army amazing black powder weapons good artilery flexible characters, lots of models for a low points, general low Ld

vampires counts all cause fear, immune to psychology, vampires are hard, scarey magic, rely on characters to keep the army going


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

A friend of mine used to play empire. They're very flexible, and have heaps of variety in troops and in the type of army you field, though most (including my mate) go for a shooty/infantry heavy army. If you love variety, that'd be the one. From what I understand, VC is extremely powerful when played well, so if you want a powerful army, with lots of magic and can spawn its own troops, that's probably your best bet.


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## Blackhiker (Dec 28, 2007)

As people have said before the empire has an incredible advantage in terms of it's customization, but all of their normal units are human which means that their stat line isn't the best. Though they do have a fairly decent selection of ranged weapons which are more powerful than the norm.

As for VC their core units are horrid the only good part about their core army is that you can keep making more during the battle. The best part of a vc army is the other options since vampires have an immensely better stat line than almost all the humans. The down side to a vc army is that your army needs to be close to vampires to march and if your general vamp dies your army will crumble to dust.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Remember there is vampire units, which alow you to march as well. Fear is the key with VC, the outnumder by fear, works well. The core units in VC are zombies which are one of the cheapest units at 4 points each, they can get biger by rasing. There are the gouls which have posion attacks and 2 attacks each, and are T4. Then there are the skelleitons better stat line than zombies and can have magical standards.


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## jax40kplyr (Sep 15, 2008)

Love playing VC myself so I'll chime in. VC are great (in my opinion) for folks who are new to the game. Customizeable, lots of magic options and casting dice, relatively simple concepts to use (march into enemy and grind them until they run from fear), and can't run! 
Empire armies are all about mutual support, evidenced by their detachment system. Individually they aren't that great, but when you have to advance through their cannons, mortars, handgunners, watching your flanks for pistoliers and knights - it gets a bit harrier. I think Empire are extremely dangerous *when properly used by someone who knows what they are doing* - otherwise alot of armies can roll over them.
If you plan on playing the game into the future, VC are a more recent codex and are considered the hardest to beat, with Chaos Daemons a close second. I've taken a break from them myself because the strategy of using them got somewhat stagnant - basically - march into them, take casaulties, raise up replacements, grind them down and chase them when they flee.
Be prepared though, if your Vampire General fails his "Look out Sir" and takes a cannonball to the face, or miscasts and dies, to automatically lose the game (your army will fall apart every turn).


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## Amra_the_lion (May 26, 2008)

if your trying to drum up interest in fantasy, Empire is not the way to go. It takes a special person to really appreciate the empire figure line, even the new ones. Feathers and pajamas dont really do it for most people. Dont get me wrong, empire is my first love and I take them against all comers, but most people just call them gay.

I in fact just started a vampire counts army not but two days ago, buying an army book, and a box of skeletons. I have three painted to what is very likely my highest standard. They look incredible, and I have already got a few "Holy $#@% I want to play fantasy now!" It is so easy to get people to wow over the vampire count line, especially the new plastics. 

So I guess it depends on your preference, but vampire counts are a great list, look amazing, and can drum up interest better than the empire. That being said, get a buddy to start a list thats an opposite from yours, if you go empire, get him into vampire counts. Paint them to stand out against each other on the field. Like blue empire and red vampires units, so anyone walking by can easily tell them apart without getting too close. And my final tip for getting interest; use painted armies. Painted draws so much more attention.


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## hippogryph (Oct 26, 2008)

Many thanks 
@ Amra- Yeah I was kinda thrown off by the tights as well. 

I will probably go for the VC because of the cool customization for the Counts.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

can not wait to see your army list.


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## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

Honestly if you want to drum up interest in WFB, don't play vamps. VC and DoC are both in a power level all of their own. If you want a group of people who can have balanced games between them, stick with the more midline power level armies. Rolling over everybody with VC is not a good way to get people into a new game.

And my poncy puffy shirt feathered empire state troops will mess you up!


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## hippogryph (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks for the replies and I can see where the vampires would get a little boring so I was thinking of doing an all Empire Knights army. It's unique and they look cool enough they would generate interest. I have a friend who may be interested so hopefully we can get something going.

So is an Empire Knights army feasible? To be more to the point can it win consistently?


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## Drax (Sep 19, 2007)

it would be a bit of a one trick pony, but it could win.

can't remember if the knights are special in this book though (i'm at work) - you may have to have some unmounted units to make it legal - don't think so though. if you did, they could just be the squires forming support roles

i'd support a couple of knight units with some pistoliers and outriders if i were you - that way you keep the mounted theme, but get a bit of variety and a little fire support.


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## jax40kplyr (Sep 15, 2008)

Unless they're inner circle, they count as core choices.
I ran the "all knight" army before - its is really a 1 trick pony that suffers from combat res, vulnerability to getting outflanked, etc. I personally never won with the army - just kept getting shot up by dwarves, failing fear checks, etc. Especially if you get charged, your going to be hurting.
Try a general spread - a unit or two of infantry, 2 units of knights, some shooty units - Empire is all about balance and mutual support.
If you dying to go with the all mounted force - go with Bretonnians - much, much better knight army.


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## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

IMO an empire all cav army is less a one-trick pony and more a no-trick pony. Knightly Orders work best in conjunction with state troops. On their own knightly orders just don't have that much punch, what they do is combine with the foot sloogers combat res to push them over the edge into victory, and provide extra speed for running down a fleeing unit. If you're looking to do an all cav army, go Bretonian. Straight up better cavalry for a better price, with lance formations that give the punch you need to break units on the charge. They look great too, more king arthur and less codpiece than empire, and would also be a good midline power level army for a gaming group.


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## hippogryph (Oct 26, 2008)

Hmm I guess I can make it like a whole Templar army has gone to war taking their auxiliaries though I don't know if this is fluffy. How big are the knightly orders?


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## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

Fluff wise? A knightly order is generally quite large. Usually they fight as auxiliaries when requested by the Elector counts, but on occasion will go off on wars of their own. See the fluff about the Knights Panther and Order of the Blazing sun for examples of orders that have done their time outside of the borders of the Empire.


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## Amra_the_lion (May 26, 2008)

but empire knights are so old! wait till some sexy ones come out!


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## hippogryph (Oct 26, 2008)

Allright guys I'm now armed and possibly dangerous (to myself) thanks for the the advice and info now onto war!


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## Drax (Sep 19, 2007)

with Empire Knights there are two types - the Knights Templars who are basically knights of a religious order such as White Wolves or Blazing Sun, then there are the regular, secular knights who are just regular men (albeit usually nobles or wealthy merchant's sons).

so basically if you want them to be your own knightly order which is a relatively new one and so is still quite small, you can and then just say that because of their size, when they go to war, they need the support of their squires. 

perhaps it was founded by a land owner after the SoC to try and rid the area of the remnants of the chaos warbands, or to keep the area clear of the increasing numbers of greenskins.


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## jax40kplyr (Sep 15, 2008)

What still kills me about the Empire cavalry (and all other cavalry) is that the front rank is the only ones who get to attack (Bretonnia aside due to Lance formation). Fluffwise - would definately like to see that one fixed. Then you might actually see some cavalry units bigger than 5 models.


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

hippogryph said:


> Many thanks
> @ Amra- Yeah I was kinda thrown off by the tights as well.
> 
> I will probably go for the VC because of the cool customization for the Counts.


Lol they get me too also that I could never win with the Empire for some reason (3 games-3 losses ^^;; ) But yea I'm on the same boat but Making Warriors of Chaos and I'll say that Vampires look cool ^^.


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## Amra_the_lion (May 26, 2008)

empire arent easy to play against top tier armies. You can win, but you have to pay careful attention to composition. Its not like WoC that you can slap something together after walking in the door and take top prize... god that pissed me off...


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