# What is the point of a Hive World?



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Been wondering about this - and what exactly does a Hive World do for the Imperium?

I don't mean worlds which contain Hives while providing alternate functions (like Armageddon is a Forge World second only to Mars, or something according to IA1), in which the populace is kept in Hives.

But when I hear Hive Worlds, I immediately have images conjured up in my noggin about massive retirement villages. The people in a Hive provide very little benefit to the imperium, the only jobs there are to serve themselves - essentially, there's no point to a Hive World, and there'd be so minor a drop in production value (having no speakable tithe value, or else that valuable product for the tithe would form the core of its industry and be designed about that) that there's no gain from having one, yet the risk to the Imperium comes from the hives being used in blood rituals to xenos/chaos gods, source of resources not normally available (notably orks, in their reuse of scrap, but also for renegades in the use of fuel etc), to even the populace being used as a weapon - either turning to Chaos/secession/joining the Tau, or providing Biomass for tyranid hive fleets.

So, what do hive Worlds actually do for the imperium, that shelling out 90% of the planets population and giving them as Lasgun, telling them to run circuits for a little bit, get some muscle, and then throw into an enemies guns to soak up ammunition, and then turning the other 10% of the planets use to removing the rest of the planets natural resources while taking away the need for thousands of incoming resources or the need to section away space for supporting your own itinerant population.

And another quick question - why does every planet have precisely the same magnetic readings that allow the military forces to plan towards north, while having (in most books) a perfectly breathable atmosphere as well as having the same gravitic signature?


----------



## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

I may be wrong but I don’t think hive worlds are planned per say. I mean i bet if you left us long enough without any concern for the hippy environment we would develop earth into some sort of hive world.
Were like cockroaches, if we never have to worry about satiability we will just keep breeding and breeding until a hive fleet comes along and destroys everything.
That’s just my interpretation though.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I always think of a hive world as something akin to minas tirith in lord of the rings or the Favela in Rio Brazil,huge population in one place for mutual protection and easy distribution of resources in a relatively inhospitable area of a planet. I also think they may serve as labor camps for projects in other parts of the world or even off world (think commuting but your work place is the moon).

as for the planets, i would imagine that the planets have similar attributes to earth as thats what type of planets we would generally go in search for and inhabit, i suppose its a little like when countries in our own history invaded other countries with desirable attributes and resources.


----------



## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Hive worlds are almost always 'local' centers of manufactoring. Most produce rediculous amounts of supplies by working their massive worforce brutally hard. They aren't Forge worlds, because they're not controlled by the Mechanicus but they're pretty darn close. Most sector and sub-sector capitals are also Hive worlds. Also, people breed *a lot*, and although the Imperium doesn't care about its populace just throwing those people away is wasteful (and would quickly rob the Imperium of its most valuable asset, people). 

Also, Hive worlds typically have the highest tithe rate possible for a planet, so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they only support themselves. They have a very city-farm type relationship with agri-worlds, the hive world bringing in food and then shipping out the machinery used to harvest the food. One cannot survive without the other.

As far as atmosphere goes, humanity isn't very likely to bother trying to live on a planet without a breathable atmosphere, especially given that there appear to be plenty of liveable worlds. Plus terraforming is possible in 40k and I'd imagine that the atmosphere is the most important part of that.

Finally as far magnetic north goes. A planetary magnetic field is necessary to shield the world from cosmic radiation, which is remarkably dangerous for people. It would be nearly impossible to survive on a world that did not have a magnetic field for this reason. Magnetic fields are naturally oriented with a 'north' and 'south' pole so any planet with one would have both. So while they might talk about North and South (and I can't actually recall anyone doing so) that doesn't necessarily mean that North is the top of the planet (in so much as a planet can have a top).


----------



## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

Don't remember it's name but one Hiveworld shiped workforces and trained pilots to one of the Imperial Navys shipyards. Only one of many reasons. 

And as stated before, I guess most hiveworlds were, early settled worlds, maybe mining worlds, that have exhausted their natural resources and now just breed and supply the imperial guard with manpower and other supplies.


----------



## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

Hive worlds are people farms. They put those people to work making war stuff, but the main purpose is to make more IG. Hive worlds don't have the output of a Forge world, but they make a lot of little things like guns, medical kits, supplies, stuff like that. Basically all the stuff IG troops need. The Adeptus Mechanicus probably wouldn't let them build anything too crazy, reserving that right for the Forge worlds, but Hive worlds can probably pump out things like Leman Russes, Chimaeras, that sort of stuff.

Also the planets are all similar because otherwise the IG wouldn't function properly and the GW writers would have to come up with some way the IG wouldn't be used as zerg with flashlights. We all know that'll never happen. :laugh:


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

MEQinc said:


> Hive worlds are almost always 'local' centers of manufactoring. Most produce rediculous amounts of supplies by working their massive worforce brutally hard. They aren't Forge worlds, because they're not controlled by the Mechanicus but they're pretty darn close. Most sector and sub-sector capitals are also Hive worlds. Also, people breed *a lot*, and although the Imperium doesn't care about its populace just throwing those people away is wasteful (and would quickly rob the Imperium of its most valuable asset, people).


What sort of supplies though? Military supplies? Those supplies could be created by a severely reduced number of people.

Fair enough point about Forge Worlds being Mechanicus, but those supplies do not require the Multi-billion people that are on a hive world. 



> Also, Hive worlds typically have the highest tithe rate possible for a planet, so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they only support themselves. They have a very city-farm type relationship with agri-worlds, the hive world bringing in food and then shipping out the machinery used to harvest the food. One cannot survive without the other.


I'd simply assumed that the infrastructure of a Hive World would be so highly inefficient that any tithe gained would outweigh produce - after all they require supplies to ported in according to the lexicanum - after all pollution is not going to make the world typically flora or fauna friendly. 



> As far as atmosphere goes, humanity isn't very likely to bother trying to live on a planet without a breathable atmosphere, especially given that there appear to be plenty of liveable worlds. Plus terraforming is possible in 40k and I'd imagine that the atmosphere is the most important part of that.


But on any worlds they fight on. Look at the Imperial Guard books, like Fifteen Hours etc. Someone who's grown up on an agri-world is able to travel from one planet to another which has so similar atmosphere that he is able to function without the need for oxygen support.

Check out Macharia in the Cadian System, and compare it to Cadia. It's gravity is likely to be exponentially higher, its atmosphere exponentially denser (even if, as you say, terraforming replaced the atmosphere to be perfectly equal), and all sorts of numerous other different variables that affect how the human body works (including altitude, respirating plants etc).

Beta Anphelion Book is the only book which I remember stated anything to do with an atmosphere that might be anything other than breathable - andthat was due to the ammonia in the air, and the concentration hovered above, below and around a band that was considered breathable.



> Finally as far magnetic north goes. A planetary magnetic field is necessary to shield the world from cosmic radiation, which is remarkably dangerous for people. It would be nearly impossible to survive on a world that did not have a magnetic field for this reason. Magnetic fields are naturally oriented with a 'north' and 'south' pole so any planet with one would have both. So while they might talk about North and South (and I can't actually recall anyone doing so) that doesn't necessarily mean that North is the top of the planet (in so much as a planet can have a top).


Brain fart then, sorry. The reference to North comes from several mentions in the IA books, as well in the Horus Heresy books (particularly Fallen Angels).


----------



## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Vaz said:


> What sort of supplies though? Military supplies?


For the most part, however most technical supplies (finished goods) would be more likely to come from a hive world than somewhere else.



> Those supplies could be created by a severely reduced number of people.


Not really.
1) Processes in 40k tend to the horribly inefficient and tend towards requiring manpower to fill the gaps in the technological ability. 
2) Hive worlds produce billions of tons of supplies daily, precisely because they have such a huge workforce working constantly. 
A lesser populace on a more technologically advanced world (or setting) would be capable of matching a hive world, nothing else in 40k can.



> Fair enough point about Forge Worlds being Mechanicus, but those supplies do not require the Multi-billion people that are on a hive world.


For the most part Forge worlds produce a far smaller amount of superior products. And many Forge worlds do have populations similar to those of hive worlds (the distinction is basically who's in charge, not how many people there are).



> I'd simply assumed that the infrastructure of a Hive World would be so highly inefficient that any tithe gained would outweigh produce - after all they require supplies to ported in according to the lexicanum - after all pollution is not going to make the world typically flora or fauna friendly.


The supplies coming in are different from those going out. Hive worlds require food and raw minerals, as for the most part they have eliminated their ability to provide their own. The supplies they send out however are finished products, technical goods. Like the city-farm analogy I mentioned earlier. 

For more information about the difference between (and the vagueness of) the planet 'classifications' I'd suggest reading the Dark Heresy source books, which at least attempt to provide a rational inter-planetary economy.




> But on any worlds they fight on. Look at the Imperial Guard books, like Fifteen Hours etc.


While I can't respond specifically to that novel, most of the world's the Imperium fights on are, or were, human. And it seems (as illogical as this may be) that the other main xenos breath the same atmosphere that we do.



> It's gravity is likely to be exponentially higher, its atmosphere exponentially denser (even if, as you say, terraforming replaced the atmosphere to be perfectly equal), and all sorts of numerous other different variables that affect how the human body works (including altitude, respirating plants etc).


For the most part this is likely just a simplification/brain-fart by the authors but I'll attempt to rationalize it anyway (because why the hell not). The reason that air pressure plays a role in how well humans can breath on earth is because the surface level concentrations are what we want them to be. I would guess that in situations were terraforming was performed they would calibrate the concentrations such that they would be appropriate at surface level, so while humans would be able to breath normally on the surface of most worlds (ignoring gravity for the moment) climbing or descending would always pose the same challenges. 

Gravity is harder to explain but I'd suggest that most Imperial worlds are roughly the same size (I can't recall if sources ever specify the diameter of any worlds) and so have gravity that is similar. The logic behind this being that most worlds that humanity would live/fight on would be in the habitable belt of their star and would thus likely have similar gravitational effects on their formation (I'm fairly certain science has/will discredit this idea but screw it). The reason these minor changes aren't noticed is because ships alter their artifical gravity during transit to slow get the troops/travellers ready, similar to what they do with the day/night cycles in one of the Gaunt's Ghosts books. 

Bear in mind that this are both just theories, I don't actually have any evidence to support them.


----------



## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

The gravity and breathable atmosphere problem has bugged Sci Fi for years, Star Trek, for example, every world they went to had the same breathable atmosphere, same gravity and all aliens speak English with an American accent, WTF?:shok:

I view it as one of those science fiction/fantasy things that's best left alone, purely my own opinion of course.


----------



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I guess hive worlds (I'm assuming hive inhabitants reproduce at a phenomenal rate...kinda like rats) supply a bunch of people for the IG


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> The gravity and breathable atmosphere problem has bugged Sci Fi for years, Star Trek, for example, every world they went to had the same breathable atmosphere, same gravity and all aliens speak English with an American accent, WTF?:shok:
> 
> I view it as one of those science fiction/fantasy things that's best left alone, purely my own opinion of course.


This. You are of course right that it would be highly implausible if not outright impossible that all the planets, including(and especially) xenos planets would have the same or very similar gravity, and that the oxygen and general make up of the air would be breathable etc, terraforming can only be an excuse on so many planets. But like Norm said, it's just one of those things i've ultimately managed to simply ignore without thinking about any more, because it just can't be rationalised really, planets generally need to be at a perfect 'sweet spot' distance from a star to be anything like Earth, and that's just with suns similar to ours, never mind all the ones with red giants or dwarf stars. Sure terraforming could bring them to the right level initially, but the terraforming would need to be constantly ongoing, something we know isn't the case. So again, we all know it's wrong, implausible and illogical, but it's one of the big sci-fi things we just have to let slide.


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Most of these planets were colonized during the Age of Technology. 

It stands to reason that terraforming took place, maybe even to the extent of manipulating a planet`s magnetic field in some cases? 

And if not, then who cares anyway?


----------



## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> I view it as one of those science fiction/fantasy things that's best left alone, purely my own opinion of course.


Suspension of disbelief *high-five*.


----------



## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

Vaz said:


> And another quick question - why does every planet have precisely the same magnetic readings that allow the military forces to plan towards north, while having (in most books) a perfectly breathable atmosphere as well as having the same gravitic signature?


The abhuman Ogryn race originated from a planet with stronger gravity than earth. So there are stories about planets with different gravitic signatures, it is just not any in-game rule for it. Certainly some houserules anywhere you like to play on a huge "super-earth". Fun to think of what this would cause for problems. Shorter range for shell weapons, harder moving causing every running and walking through difficult terrain throw extra dice and choosing the lowest.  

By the looks of all Deathcorps of Krieg I would say their atmosphere isn't that safe to breath. How do an ork horde addapt to a toxic atmosphere and how to show it in-game? Always do dangerous terrain tests even when beeing stationary? 

There are just your imagination that limits you in how to add any of the factors you mentiond in-game.


----------

