# Jervis Confirms 40k Mission Book



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

The Warhammer 40k mission book we first mentioned here has pretty much been confirmed now by an email from Jervis to Captain Idaho over on Bolter and Chainsword.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=154304



Captain Idaho said:


> Oops, forgot to mention this to you guys from October! Bascially I have been unhappy with the bland missions that are the dominate driving factor of how we play 40K (including list building and style of play), so I took the bull by the horns and wrote up alternative ideas for the game, with 3 missions for Space Marines & Orks as examples. These missions are designed to be race specific and tailored to the character of the army in question (i.e. Space Marines targeting HQ & Elite units in favour of Troops, while Ork HQ units earn extra VPs for destroying things to prove how tough they are!).
> 
> Anyhow, I sent these ideas to none other than Jervis Johnson himself, pointing out I find it particular silly in the standard missions when a unit of 4 Genestealers stay on an objective to win a game instead of jumping on the nearby Guardsman and feasting when in reality the Hive mind would do the opposite.
> 
> ...


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Greeeeat...Jervis isn't happy to tamper with the codices in order to force you into his particular playstyle, now he's writing a book that flat out tells you how to play your army... 'cause god help you if your marines operate differently than JJ's marines.

Just give us back our kill teams, combat patrol and special mission rules back


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## Degzi (Nov 10, 2008)

i quite like th idea would make good reading regardless of anything else but it may restrict play as much as open it up


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## Coffeemug (Jan 4, 2008)

Hmmm...I dont think I like army specific scenarios. I would like to see more variety for standard missions. If there gonna go through all that trouble to publish a book give it both.
Most GT tournys and RTT's have a mission booklet anyway, and we as players can be more creative in the games we play. 

I always thought that the dawn of war mission should have random night fight that works like reserves, turn 1 NF, 2 4+ not, 3, 4 so on. 

Even add in different deployment types like angled and short board edges.

The random mission chart should have at least 6 possibility for set up and mission.

Unless the missions are realy creative and add to the game as a whole I dont think it a good idea.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I would've really preferred to see a book with more Standard Missions instead, something that all armies could play with the same objective. This supplement is clearly just going to be something that you use with your buddies (which is fun, of course) but won't get to use in more serious environments. Blech.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

New Release:

"YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!" by Jervis Johnson


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Galahad said:


> New Release:
> 
> "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!" by Jervis Johnson


For Jervis' self esteem's sake I really hope he doesn't read many of your posts Galahad. :laugh:


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

Sounds interesting.......:read:


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Galahad said:


> Just give us back our kill teams, combat patrol and special mission rules back


On that note; What _did _ happen to Kill team? Why did they choose not to put it into the new rules?


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

Concrete Hero said:


> On that note; What _did _ happen to Kill team? Why did they choose not to put it into the new rules?


'Cos the new missions are just much better...right:good: *non believing*


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Concrete Hero said:


> On that note; What _did _ happen to Kill team? Why did they choose not to put it into the new rules?


Because they decided to put only the core rules of the game into the book and not confuse the stupid people with anything extra.

Because 40k is already the most complex thing in the universe and all. *rolls her eyes*


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## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

Katie Drake said:


> For Jervis' self esteem's sake I really hope he doesn't read many of your posts Galahad. :laugh:



Actually i hope he does. It might stop him buggering things up!:ireful2:


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

MarzM said:


> Actually i hope he does. It might stop him buggering things up!:ireful2:


Doubtful. It isn't like he doesn't know that he's pissing people off. I can't imagine the volume of mail he must get from angry gamers. Nerd Rage!


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Agree in what some folks have said here. 
A book which gives more "standard missions and deployment rules" and maybe even more scenario special rules too would be very nice! A book only filled with silly special case: 3 Alpha in case you play SMs, 3 Bravo in case of IG and so on wont help out at all :angry:


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

why do you need to pay for a book for missions, when you can just use your imaginations?

*suddenly remembers this is 40k played by 40k players*

actually nevermind


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Imagin......Ation?

But this is what I was told to buy...


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

to be honest my personal favourite mission was total war, basicly boot the socks off the other side until he has nothing left, no turn limits, no objectives to capture,just death.


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## ShadowMatt (Sep 9, 2008)

Yeah, it hardly needs a whole book just for missions. How about a free download? (Wishful thinking I know.)
Some ideas: 1) One army has to destroy objectives by assaulting them, while the other army tries to defend them. Techmarines etc can repair objectives just like a vehicle. 
2) Capture the flag - an important item must be retrieved from the enemy's deployment zone and returned to your own. 
3) Desperate Defense - defending army sets up fortifications & deploys in center of board. Attackers deploy from any edge. 
4) Extraction - Both armies must reach their extraction point in the enemy's deployment zone. Team with most units in extraction zone at end of game wins.
Sorry Jervis, too late .


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## Gobbo (Jun 4, 2008)

And this 12 page full colour book can be yours for just £69.99 (Excluding VAT)


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

This is just another, high priced, unnecessary add on they can sell to the stupid 12 years "gamers" along with 8 battle for macragge paint sets, and yet another tac squad. I'm throwing my vote in with the "bring back kill team" lot.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Gobbo said:


> And this 12 page full colour book can be yours for just £69.99 (Excluding VAT)


When was the last time GW produced anything full colour? You'd be lucky if the cover was coloured.


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## Initiate (Mar 25, 2007)

Bull! All of it! I can come up with a dozen scenarios in my head in less than a minute. Jervis is probably behind his desk drooling while he thinks of more ways to get kiddies to buy his worthless junk.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Initiate said:


> Bull! All of it! I can come up with a dozen scenarios in my head in less than a minute. Jervis is probably behind his desk drooling while he thinks of more ways to get kiddies to buy his worthless junk.


I've got an entire 6'' binder full of missions I've written. Some of them are even posted on Heresy in the Custom Missions area of General 40k. It's not that hard to come up with something fun to do that's not a standard mission. I'm not surprised GW is capitalizing on the lack of creativity of people they're trying to inspire to be creative...

On a seperate note, can we just have a lynch mob go after Jervis? I want to punch him every time I read "Standard Bearer." It's like reading state-spun propaganda that encourages you to stick your balls in a wood chipper.


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## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

i agree with kill team and all they need is a pdf of 4th ed missions blitz breakthrough etc, why they would change it i don't know diverse and fun.
Army specific missions are just that play this way kill that guy to win i do that with mix and match hq cheese pedro in salamanders, eldrad in saim hann etc my own personal victory to mke the game fun for me.

its all targeted at super nerds and kids with there dads/moms money if you have a brain blank just google or look at forums


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Cant we just make up our own kill team for the new rules?

Cant see this as big on my list of things to buy. I'd rather go to the pub :drinks:


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Wouldn't Kill team fit well into 5th Ed anyway? Can't really remember the last time we played and used any sort of mission template...

humakt, what are you talking about? We have to wait for the Kill team Book of course!!

Seriously though... If I was stuck for mission types I'd much rather skim through Heresy than BUY a book of Race specific _standard_ missions


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

kill teams are a waste of GW's time and effort, They want to sell models and lots of them, thats why they dumped the specialist range, they are great games to play but they dont get you to spend your hard earned cash collecting more models, I am a massive space hulk and blood bowl fan but in theory i wouldn't need to purchase any thing else after i have bought the original box set to play the games until i die, and that is the main flaw in most wargames ,card games and roleplaying systems in terms of sustainability. GW has managed to reinvent its games and armies year on year by simply rehashing the same old crap into a shiny new piece of must have model. You only have to look at the space marines,they have been kicking around in the same form since the early 90's. And they are still flying off the shelves thats pure genius really.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

humakt said:


> Cant we just make up our own kill team for the new rules?


NO!!!!!
you MUST have a rulebook for it or you cannot play, those are the rules, otherwise GW will kill you and your entire family for having fun without there permission and without there rules

you have been warned
:alcoholic:


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I could make up my own rules entirely and stop buying crappy codices and awful new rules revisions...

But it would just be me at the table and I wouldn't really be playing warhammer.

Just because I can make up my own rules doesn't mean GW isn't doing the wrong thing by making crappy new product telling you how JJ wants you to play rather than giving people what they seem to actually want.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Galahad said:


> Just because I can make up my own rules doesn't mean GW isn't doing the wrong thing by making crappy new product telling you how JJ wants you to play rather than giving people what they seem to actually want.


It does seem odd that Jervis continues to pump out stuff that _people clearly don't like_! Why is it that he continues to make stuff that's the exact opposite of what GW's customer base is asking for?


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

On first impressions I thought this looked like a good idea, it seemed to make sense. But it's all dependant on how the books written.
Giving Tyranid players the chance to win objectives in a different way than SM is ok as long as it doesn't become a bunch of set in stone rules.
What worries me is the risk that GW will decide that if you play anything other than SM then you need the new missions book. 
"Ahh, you see Chaos Marines are played in a different way from Space Marines so they can't hold an objective like that they need to hold it like this, go over there and buy the book, because you really can't play them without it anymore."
"But I don't want to buy the book"
"OK, you'll have to buy some Space Marines then, We've got some lovelly Ultram...."


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe his son never played Kill team so he doesnt want to bother with it?

Sorry moving away from the thread a bit there. Maybe JJ thinks that by 'telling' people how to play he is making the 40k world a better place to be.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> It does seem odd that Jervis continues to pump out stuff that _people clearly don't like_! Why is it that he continues to make stuff that's the exact opposite of what GW's customer base is asking for?


Answer
a) He's a twit.
b) He's a dick.
c) He doesn't care.
d) BUY MOAR MARNIES1!!!!1!
e) All of the above.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Katie Drake said:


> It does seem odd that Jervis continues to pump out stuff that _people clearly don't like_! Why is it that he continues to make stuff that's the exact opposite of what GW's customer base is asking for?


Because in his mind it's *his* game, he just lets us play it, and apparently we've been doing it wrong.


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## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

Well, thats it. I'm tired of hearing it. *Grabs a torch and a six-barreled shotgun.* Who's with me to put an end to this badness?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Galahad said:


> Because in his mind it's *his* game, he just lets us play it, and apparently we've been doing it wrong.


Well sure, but you'd think that whoever owns GW would be like, "Bitch, give them what they want or *you're fired!*


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

When have you ever seen GW give people what they want? GW doesn't even have a forums! How could they possibly know what people want?


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Steel Rain said:


> When have you ever seen GW give people what they want? GW doesn't even have a forums! How could they possibly know what people want?


To be fair to GW, when they did have forums all they would get were people asking rules questions and other people just bitching about rpices and how broken their army was.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

humakt said:


> To be fair to GW, when they did have forums all they would get were people asking rules questions and other people just bitching about rpices and how broken their army was.


Dude that's what forums are for. The WoW forums is nothing more than theorycrafting, epeen flexing, and bitching about how UP/OP the flavor-of-the-month was.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Galahad said:


> I could make up my own rules entirely and stop buying crappy codices and awful new rules revisions...
> 
> But it would just be me at the table and I wouldn't really be playing warhammer.


well unless you find a 40k player whos open to new ideas?
:laugh::laugh::laugh:


Katie Drake said:


> Well sure, but you'd think that whoever owns GW would be like, "Bitch, give them what they want or *you're fired!*


of course not, the people who own GW only say things like
"bitch create more products people don't want and don't need and convince them they DO need it to actually play legally and at the same time giving us MOAR money to create more crap people don't need or want"


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

I would love new ideas and this book could be, if nothing, else a starting point to create your own missions. Best example I can think of is a story based campaign. Chaos are attacking Tau, how would Chaos act and how would Tau respond. The Witch Hunters codex has a small section in back giving examples of why a Witch Hunters army would fight certain armies. Take the fluff, expand it, and build on what you have and make your own games.

For instance, Chaos and Tau. Tau win if they can hold a series of ramparts, representing city walls, Chaos wins if they can get a squad of any kind on the wall. Next game, If Chaos won, Tau are running as Chaos tries to catch them in the streets. If Tau won, Chaos has to move a battering ram to a "gate" under fire. Make rules for the ram like the ram must be carried by six models and the unit carrying the ram may not fire and is Slow and Purposeful. If the ram reaches the gate and the unit carrying it is not killed in the subsequent turn, Chaos breaches the gate and enters the city.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Underground Heretic said:


> I would love new ideas and this book could be, if nothing, else a starting point to create your own missions. Best example I can think of is a story based campaign. Chaos are attacking Tau, how would Chaos act and how would Tau respond. The Witch Hunters codex has a small section in back giving examples of why a Witch Hunters army would fight certain armies. Take the fluff, expand it, and build on what you have and make your own games.
> 
> For instance, Chaos and Tau. Tau win if they can hold a series of ramparts, representing city walls, Chaos wins if they can get a squad of any kind on the wall. Next game, If Chaos won, Tau are running as Chaos tries to catch them in the streets. If Tau won, Chaos has to move a battering ram to a "gate" under fire. Make rules for the ram like the ram must be carried by six models and the unit carrying the ram may not fire and is Slow and Purposeful. If the ram reaches the gate and the unit carrying it is not killed in the subsequent turn, Chaos breaches the gate and enters the city.


You have good ideas, but the problem is that not all of us are lucky enough to play in a group with people open to playing things beyond the basic standard missions.

This is why some of us complain when rules aren't "official" because our groups won't even consider them.


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Unfortunately, I tend to be a rules lawyer. I like knowing what is what, so I try to get terrain declared as to what cover saves it gives. If both players agree and put it down in black and white, I'm very happy. I just get frustrated when things are decided halfway through and "wow, if I would have known that I would have done something different." But like I said, new missions and to a much smaller degree house rules, are fine with me if they are clearly defined _before the game_.


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## Darkangeldentist (Oct 31, 2007)

This has been quite a wretched thread for whinging and complaining over a very vague and broad idea. It feels like everyone complains about the basic missions but when there's rumour about an expansion with loads more it's all just boring, awful and another money grabbing idea to leach money off people. (That last part is probably spot on.)

Different missions sound interesting and at the worst it should at least give a solid basis for people to try out their own missions.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Darkangeldentist said:


> it's all just boring, awful and another money grabbing idea to leach money off people.


which it is, especially when you can do the same thing for free and better using your imagination........as long as you don't play "those" people


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Darkangeldentist said:


> This has been quite a wretched thread for whinging and complaining over a very vague and broad idea. It feels like everyone complains about the basic missions but when there's rumour about an expansion with loads more it's all just boring, awful and another money grabbing idea to leach money off people.


The problem is that there are currently exactly three Standard Missions to play with. People are looking for more variety in their Standard Missions, not extra army-specific in friendly games only missions that a chunk of us will never get to use because of our playgroups.

We're complaining because we're not getting what we've been asking for. Instead GW is putting something out there that we won't get to use.


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## bon_jovi (Nov 16, 2008)

Gobbo said:


> And this 12 page full colour book can be yours for just £69.99 (Excluding VAT)


But now vat is down 2.5% its a bargain!


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Katie summed it up pretty well.

This isn't a case of GW giving us what we want, and us whiny internet people complaining that it's not enough.

It's a case of GW NOT giving us what we want, and dressing it up as something we *should* want. 

Nobody has asked for a list of special army-specific victory conditions and mission objectives. They asked for more standard missions and more modes of play.

If this book turns out to actually *have* more non-army specific missions and modes of play, but with just the crappy "JJ tells you how to run your army" stuff tacked on, then I'll happily buy it and ignore the crap I didn't want.

But if it turns out to be what they're hinting at, which is just army specific special rules that nobody actually asked for, then I think I've got a fair right to complain about GW wasting resources helping JJ do his control freak routine instead of giving the fanbase the products they've been asking for.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Forgive the trollish rant, but honestly... when GW releases this kind of crap, it makes me die a little inside. As Galahad said... it's Games Workshop making product completely contrary to what the majority of players want, and they're pushing it as something you *need* and *should* want. And then there'll be Jervis's little fanboy article in White Dwarf, the assorted redshirt types trying to pick your pocket for the 30 bucks this book will probably cost, and stuff a copy of it in your hands. The thing that bugs me the most about these sort of releases is that it sends the message that Games Workshop doesn't think anyone's capable of producing hobby material except them-- that their clientelle is just plain fucking stupid. First, we have the "streamlining" of Codecies and Army Books. They cut out all the options they don't make models for, because Heaven forbid that you actually model anything yourself... what, with this being a game which invovles modelling and painting... Then, they cut out Victory Points, because basic addition seems to be beyond most gamers. Clearly, it would be unheard of for a gamer to come up with an intelligent, entertaining set of missions which engage the entire local group for a few hours each week, and follow up with a pint... Oh no... It's not like I've got a fucking binder full of missions that I wrote when I was drunk or half asleep, and have had tremendous success with...

Jervis is the ultimate redshirt. The dumb douche writes a bloody column once a month that basically reads, "I'm a good ol' boy, just like you, and when I play with my plastic spacemen, I do it like this. Since I do it like this, and make it sound like good 'ol fashioned family fun, I'm gonna make sure you do it like this too."

One of these days, I half expect the Standard Bearer article in White Dwarf to read, "I'm really excited about our brand new edition of Warhammer 40,000-- Warhammer 40,000: Colon Blow. It'll be a great new way to play with your plastic spacemen, and it'll completely invalidate all currently standing rules. Rather than actually playing a game and interacting with other people, all you need to play 40k Colon Blow is a lead pipe to bop yourself on the head with until you stop reading my shitty fanboy cumstain articles, and a package of these fun, hard plastic Chaos Space Marine suppositories."


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## Kenny3760 (Jan 5, 2007)

I just hope it is a book full of more "standard" missions with a couple of specials for each army. Even the DE 3ed codex had a special mission for them, what happened to them in the new dexes. 
My bet is that missions of the type that were in the 4ed rulebook end up in this new book. That would do me fine as there was a bit of variety in them.


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## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

I'm guessing a few people have seen this:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...tId=cat410004&categoryId=1000016&aId=10200001

Could this be the sort of thing we have to look forward in this rumored book? If so, I can see this being made up of several sections:

A color section (because, after all, that's why we're paying through the nose for the book, right?)
A section of new mission-specific rules (Fight To the Finish, Stand Firm, etc.) and set-ups.
A section for the possible rebirth of kill-teams.
A section dealing with scenarios for specific armies.

Of course, this might be wishful thinking. The ideal mission book would be a tome of ideas and examples of variations mixing those ideas. Offering suggestions for 'story lines' is also a plus, in my book. However, if this is like everyone fears (a book of dictated plots and strategies)... um, no. That's why I have my 4th ed. rulebook in the closet still. Pleanty of ideas there that can be tweaked from here to Tuesday.


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## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

What would really be all that wrong with GW brining back Meat grinder and such missions again. Cleanse! Oh how i'd love cleanses or a mission where you have to capture an objective and get it off the table! Or how about Breakout! 

Nostalgia!


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

spudboy said:


> I'm guessing a few people have seen this:
> 
> http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...tId=cat410004&categoryId=1000016&aId=10200001
> 
> ...


That link is to an article about using scenery, but the description of the book you give is interesting.

If it is indeed primarily extra generic missions (and kill teams) with just one section on race specific stuff then I'd buy it


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## Druchii in Space (Apr 7, 2008)

The Son of Horus said:


> Forgive the trollish rant, but honestly... when GW releases this kind of crap, it makes me die a little inside. As Galahad said... it's Games Workshop making product completely contrary to what the majority of players want, and they're pushing it as something you *need* and *should* want. And then there'll be Jervis's little fanboy article in White Dwarf, the assorted redshirt types trying to pick your pocket for the 30 bucks this book will probably cost, and stuff a copy of it in your hands. The thing that bugs me the most about these sort of releases is that it sends the message that Games Workshop doesn't think anyone's capable of producing hobby material except them-- that their clientelle is just plain fucking stupid. First, we have the "streamlining" of Codecies and Army Books. They cut out all the options they don't make models for, because Heaven forbid that you actually model anything yourself... what, with this being a game which invovles modelling and painting... Then, they cut out Victory Points, because basic addition seems to be beyond most gamers.


The sad truth is though they still don't see any of us on Heresy as their main customers and thats the damned problem. All they are looking at are the 12-14yr olds who according to them do struggle with the Vp's and making armies up. If they ever lower the games to 10+ I'd probably ignore that edition as it would be so dumbed down it'd be unthinkable to play.

However whats really annoying about my statement that after running several clubs over the years most in the 12-14 range seem to cope with the rules and lists just fine. 

So I have to be honest here is it just Jervis' kid that doesn't get it and he's tailoring the game because of him or is it just a majority of troublesome kids that hang at GW stores?

Or worse still has the design team started taking stupid pills and need the help because I'd really like to know where GW is getting their feedback from that has forced them to make the codex lists/mission changes of late?



As to the book, who knows if it ever appears i'll look into it, but aye tbh if I wanted to make specific scenarios for friendly games thats what the pen and pad is for.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Druchii in Space said:


> So I have to be honest here is it just Jervis' kid that doesn't get it and he's tailoring the game because of him or is it just a majority of troublesome kids that hang at GW stores?


I'm honestly of the opinion that Jervis' son just isn't very smart and we're all suffering as a result.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

GW has also seen a lot of their good design talent run off to other game developers too.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Steel Rain said:


> GW has also seen a lot of their good design talent run off to other game developers too.


Can you blame them?


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

I hope it's true, and they bring back the old 4th ed missions... I used to really enjoy playing them. I really don't like the new missions, because it basically tells you how to set up... and a few additional rules, nothing fun!


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## Kenny3760 (Jan 5, 2007)

Katie Drake said:


> I'm honestly of the opinion that Jervis' son just isn't very smart and we're all suffering as a result.


I don't know if it's just Jervis's boy. 
At the club I attend there a lot of kids sort of 11-14 years old and trying to get them to play a mission other than "kill them all" is a nightmare. Most of them don't want to try a mission, a lot of them don't know what 5th ed is. Now you can try and teach them missions and new rules etc, but they really ain't interested, and herein is the real problem, because they are the market sector that keeps GW going. I'd say that's where the real spending goes on and so that's where the game, unfortunately in my opinion, is aimed and heading too rapidly.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

You mean there are other missions than kill them all? What's the point of playing if you don't have to kill them all?


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## Fluff'Ead (Aug 22, 2007)

Well, that's the kind of stuff I'd like to see in WD. Maybe I'll buy it for the fluff.

Oh, and let's leave Jervis' kid out of this.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Wow, strong opinions being voiced by all...

I think i'm going to wait until it's released before making a judgement. Hopefully they'll add a few new standard missions to accompany the gems they slapped in the shite edition core rulebook.

Sadly "Destroy the Necron Pylon then moonwalk the fuck out of town" or "Distract the Hive Mind with bad stand up comedy" doesn't tickle my fancy. I'd be down for a game of "Spank the abused canoness till her arse bleeds" though. 

There's always hope... unless Alessio gets the go ahead of course...

I like Jervis. He created BloodBowl :yahoo:


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

wow, how quickly this led to a gw bashing thread. Im not exactly sure how, what seems like a good idea to me, got so much hate, and what exactly have you guys asked gw for....because there seem to be quite a few calls of gw not doing what weve asked them for, but i don't know what that is?


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Double wow within a minute of each other.

You stalking me bitch? :aggressive:


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

GW makes it hard to ask for things because they have very limited customer interface where it counts. With no GW moderated forums, they would be hard pressed to give us what we ask for. Sure you could flood them with emails, but there is no way to tell if that goes to the right place. And GW stores don't have the same pull that HQ does. Every company with great customer service has a few things: customer service phone numbers/email addresses, forums, and blogs. GW has 1 of those.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

write to jervis 
he loves mail


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

I bet he does. I bet he rolls in all the hate mail he gets, cackling like at madman at all the poor spelling, bad grammar, and incoherent ramblings about how much he sucks.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Jezlad said:


> I'd be down for a game of "Spank the abused canoness till her arse bleeds" though.


 you kinky bitch..........where do I sign for this?


jigplums said:


> and what exactly have you guys asked gw for....


a half decent product written by someone who isn't as thick as a tree and as ignorant as ignorance itself.

we'll never get it though.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

jigplums said:


> because there seem to be quite a few calls of gw not doing what weve asked them for, but i don't know what that is?


As I said before, we're asking for more standard missions that are "official" and usable outside of friendly games. We want more variety in the standard missions, not race-specific stuff (not to mention I'd be willing to bet that at least half of these race specific scenarios will be totally imbalanced in one way or another).


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

So, with breakthrough and etc. From 4th and even 3rd.

Why can't people just take those missions and play with 5ed rules? I don't have my 3rd and 4th edition books on me but surely any glaring errors between editions could be fixed with a bit of sense.

That should be all the 'standard' missions people are asking for, because between those ed's there's quite a few right?

Just a suggestion? No need to direct this GW hate at me now...


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

...because that's in the same boat as just making shit up.

You CAN, but that doesn't excuse GW from their responsibility to actually make a decent product.

Imagine you bought a car and they only decided to put three wheels on it.
Rather than providing you with the fourth wheel, they offer a three-pack of ski attachments instead, because the dealership really thinks that a car with a white paintjob should be driven on snow a lot.

Sure, you could go back, pull a spare wheel off your old car and fix the new one, but does that mean you're not allowed to complain that the dealership sold you a bad car to begin with, or that you can't be upset with the ski package not being what you really needed?


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

My tiredness, coupled with the task of facing a metaphor just baffled me.

I do know what you mean, and GW should have just stuck it in the main rulebook, it just seems... A bit odd that they didn't.

I think people are just going to complain before and after release on principle now :biggrin: (Not saying that complaints are unjust. I can't wait for my Kill Team rule book...)


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Concrete Hero said:


> I think people are just going to complain before and after release on principle now :biggrin: (Not saying that complaints are unjust. I can't wait for my Kill Team rule book...)


Yeah, we'll continue to complain as long as GW keeps wasting resources and time on producing supplements to the game that _nobody asked for_. I'm not saying that GW shouldn't be allowed to add stuff that they think is cool and a good idea to the game... I just think that they should actually pay attention to what their consumer base is asking them for instead of just ignoring it entirely and producing what they figure we should want.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> I just think that they should actually pay attention to what their consumer base is asking them for instead of just ignoring it entirely and producing what they figure we should want.


GW do appear to be doing what the software industry does. Think of what they believe are 'cool' features and then trying to make it sound like its what people wanted all along.

Microsoft have been doing this for years and making buckets of money.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

well actually if you read the 1st post of the thread, you'll find someone did ask for this product. The guy that jervis wrote too very specifically asked for it.

So you all going to stop the pointless gw bash a product we know nothing about yet?


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## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

jigplums said:


> So you all going to stop the pointless gw bash a product we know nothing about yet?


Stop complaining?

ON THE INTERNET?!


ARE YOU MAD, SIR?!


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I believe that the proper place for extra missions would be in the White Dwarf mag surely that would give it some point beyond shameless catalogue and would give many of us a reason to buy it again. 
To be honest though I still use the mission cards that came with the first proper boxed set and none of my gaming group have any problem with that and both armies having an unknown objective that may be totally at odds with the enemys plans just seems to make for better games rather than having 2 points on a battle field and trying to get your army closest at the end. bring on assassination and witch hunt even watching a Tau army trying to win a guerilla warfare mission is pure class.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Concrete Hero said:


> So, with breakthrough and etc. From 4th and even 3rd.
> 
> Why can't people just take those missions and play with 5ed rules?


finding an opponent that will actually let you is close if not impossible


jigplums said:


> So you all going to stop the pointless gw bash a product we know nothing about yet?


of course not, GW deserve it.

and 1 person asking isn't really a consumer base, its 1 fanboy with the same mindless mentality of most fanboys, or its just 1 bloke Jervis made up to give him an excuse to make a shitty book, OR its his son


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## spudboy (Jun 13, 2008)

The hostility, palpabile it is.

Perhaps the only way to know what direction this is going in is to wait and see, and hope whoever does playtesting for them will have the guts to come out and say what everyone feels: don't dictate to the players how to play their armies, and don't assume we all just want to beat each other's brains in.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

spudboy said:


> and hope whoever does *playtesting* for them


playtesting? GW playtesting?....such a thing is unheard of


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## World Eater (Aug 31, 2008)

Jezlad said:


> Wow, strong opinions being voiced by all...
> 
> I think i'm going to wait until it's released before making a judgement. Hopefully they'll add a few new standard missions to accompany the gems they slapped in the shite edition core rulebook.
> 
> ...


Hail,
Maybe the new book will give my Berzerkers an extra spank on the abused Canoness till her ass bleeds. If that were the case count me in!

Blood for the Blood God indeed!

World Eater

P.S. I also liked BloodBowl as well


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

spudboy said:


> I'm guessing a few people have seen this:
> 
> http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...tId=cat410004&categoryId=1000016&aId=10200001
> 
> ...


If this is what is in this book, I would probably buy it. Only if kill team rules are in it though. The army specific stuff is meh. It'd be fun to run that in pickup games, but it doesn't fly in tourneys.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

jigplums said:


> well actually if you read the 1st post of the thread, you'll find someone did ask for this product. The guy that jervis wrote too very specifically asked for it.
> 
> So you all going to stop the pointless gw bash a product we know nothing about yet?


One person. *One* person, Jiggy. That's one random guy who wasn't actually asking for a supplement, but just mentioned to JJ that he thought it was funny that Tyranids are more interested in capturing ammo crates than eating Guardsmen.

One person does not well represent an entire consumer base.


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## Sanguinary Dan (Feb 2, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> playtesting? GW playtesting?....such a thing is unheard of


That's not actually fair. They do playtest. They're just doing it wrong. I've been involved in developing 4 different air combat board games and we playtested the hell out of them. But because we all knew what we meant when we wrote a rule we missed things. Which is why you need to go outside the incestuous inner circle and get truly blind opinions. If someone "gets it" without you having to explain it you learn just as much as when they come up with something 180 deg.s from what you thought you wrote.:wacko:

Someday GW will learn how to do this. Probably just after Forge World hires editors with better than a pre-school command of the English language.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Sanguinary Dan said:


> Someday GW will learn how to do this. Probably just after Forge World hires editors with better than a pre-school command of the English language.


:laugh: Oh man... I couldn't help but laugh. This is _so true_! I suppose I can let poor editing go for the awesome models and rules they give us, though. ^_^


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> I'm honestly of the opinion that Jervis' son just isn't very smart and we're all suffering as a result.


Hey! The PC term is "Abundantly retarded". God, you people and your judgemental, hateful behavior 



Jezlad said:


> "Spank the abused canoness till her arse bleeds"


Does that mean templar get "Preffered Enemy: Canoness Ass"?


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Id like to draw everyones attention to the rules.



> Personal attacks will NOT be tolerated! If you lash out personally against another user you will receive our full attention, and trust me, you don't want that. Attacks against people outside of Heresy are also discouraged, though aren't as serious as attacks against other users. Disagree with people, attack their ideas, counter their statements, but name-calling and open attacks have no place here.


I think this thread has run its course - we'll continue the discussion when the book becomes available for purchase.


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