# Astartes armor during the heresy...



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

This is so confusing. 

So I decided to post a new thread. 

And see if you could tell me an answer. 

What the fuck. I am tired. 

What armor marks were in use during the Heresy?! I am planing this Heresy era army, and I was wondering if the Corvus and Aquila pattern marks were in use during the Heresy, seeing as (at least) the Aquila pattern is seen in Heresy era artwork, and then I heard that all the Marks were is use during the Heresy, thou the newer ones (Aquila) were only employed in small numbers. What is the truth? 

And was the Terminator armor similar to the current one? 

And what weapons were not in use during the Heresy?


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## mad matt (Jul 2, 2011)

Armor:
during the heresy Mark IV was the most spread armour. Then later on in the heresy MK V was the most used, because of its simpler construction. Corvus (Mark VI) was rather rare during the heresy. For Example in the "Garro:Legion of one" audiobook it is pointed out that Garro was wearing a modern and new type of armour with peaked faceplate. Even in the end of the heresy era, MK VII was hardly seen, if at all. 

Terminators:
Terminator armor was still a quite new invention when the Heresy broke out (as stated in the first HH novel, when they attack the mountain base) and some Legions hadn´t received any when the fighting part of the Heresy started. The Terminator armor looked quite different, especially the shoulders. Today there are some small manufacturers that offer heresy terminator shoulders.

Weapons
Assault Cannons were just beeing developed when the heresy started and hadn´t replaced the reaper autocannons yet, so Heresy Era Minis shouldn´t walk around wielding assault cannons. Though available most guns had different layouts.

I hope I could held you with this little survey.


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## Anfo (Jul 17, 2009)

Heresy Terminator Armor-










For the power armor used, go to http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_armor.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Pretty sure they first looked like


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Go to forge world they have your answer.


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## demon bringer (Oct 14, 2008)

pretty sure the heresy books said that only the emperors children where allowed the aquilla but some astartes where given the privelage of wearing it like some of the officers from other legions who had preformed impressive acts.

so if you where going to use the aquilla markings i would only use them on characters or squad leaders not your ordinary rank and file soldiers, unless your collecting emperors children of course


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Pretty sure they first looked like


Thats Sexy. I would like to have a Sqaud of them.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm leaning towards a Scouring style army, a lot more leeway in what you can have but still retaining a lot of the pre-heresy and heresy stuff.

For a heresy army though I wouldn't go beyond Mk V.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

At the time the heresy broke out Mark IV 'maximus' armour was being phased into the legions to replace Mark III 'iron' armour. As the heresy ground on and logistics were stretched with resources running low Mark V 'Heresy' armour was introduced. This was a stop gap measure, an armour type that was easily to repair and could be cannibalized from other marks. 

Marks VI 'corvus' was introduced at the end of the heresy and was a better version of Mark V. Mark VII 'aquilla' would not have been seen during the Heresy, owing to the aforemention resources problems but it was developed during this period. Mark VIII 'errant' was certainly not seen in the Heresy being a post Heresy invention. 

The Aquila symbol was only displayed in bulk by the Emperor's Children Legion, though it was also awarded as a symbol of great honour and merit such as Garro's battleplate. For when it's not for the Emperor Children it seems mainly to be a Terran quirk. 

For an early crusade era force its Mark II, for a later cruasde era force its Marks III and IV.

For a heresy era force the most common marks would be Mark IV and Mark V, with a few Mark III suits left over. 

For a Scouring era force your looking at Mark VI and VII.

Nowadays it's VII with VIII being slowly introduced.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Would MK VI armour be used in the Scouring? I'm getting some MK V Heresy armour to use as my Sternguard and I'm wondering whether I should combine it with MKVI or just keep them entirely as MK V.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Given that during the Scouring the Imperium was stabilizing again i certainly see Mark VI being used extensively. It's better than Mark V but still easier to produce than Mark IV which suits the Scouring as a time where the Imperium is slowly bouncing back. 

I imagine Mark VII was introduced alongside the Codex Astartes and Guilliman's other reforms when the Imperium was back on its feet.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Hmm most of my army is wearing MK VII at the moment, that wasn't used in scouring was it?


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

So, the MkVII armor is entirely out from the Heresy then?


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Doelago said:


> So, the MkVII armor is entirely out from the Heresy then?


Apparently, at the height of the Heresy the MK V would be the most common imo with the MK VI coming in towards the end maybe. The MK VI, as stated would be the most common during the Scouring with the MK VII coming in towards the end of that or mid way through.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

God fuck it. I was just filled with false hope that I could make a Captain and maybe a few high ranking dudes wear it. Damn unfluffy box art.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Doelago said:


> God fuck it. I was just filled with false hope that I could make a Captain and maybe a few high ranking dudes wear it. Damn unfluffy box art.


You could always classify it as artificer armour or convert it with green stuff to make it seem older.

Btw Wasn't the Codex Astartes created as soon as the Heresy was over? I know that by the time of the Iron Cage Incident the Imperial Fists had already split up into the Crimson Fists and Black Templars.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I'm pretty sure that Mk VII Power Armor was developed during the end of the Heresy. Due to the timing of the development and ensuing events, however, it was only really fielded to Loyalists on Terra and Luna--by the time it had been completed, Horus had made it to our solar system.

I'll try to locate said information in the appropriate Codex when I get the chance.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Ok.


At the start of the hersey (just before the legions went traitor) most of the legions wore mark II armour.

Mark II was also very prevalent, but was not given out to legions enmass, and was more used by shock troops and boarding parties because it was simply mark II with additional armour to the front covering the weak spot and the 'banding' that can be seen on mark II.


Mark IV was just being phased in and as the hersey struck the legions that were sent to put down the inital traitors were all outfitted in mark IV armour. Ironically most of these legions went traitor, or were oblitterated on ivsstan.

Mark IV armour was notoriously difficult to maintain, unless you had a perfect supply chain, something that during the hersey was very difficult to sort out. Thus during the early stages of the heresy as the traitors made their way towards earth the loyalists made the mk V armour.

MK V was very easy to make and maintain and was extremely heavy and thus needed extra cooling systems - this is why the chest of MK V armour is covered in cables. The armour could not be perfectly bonded like the MK IV and thus it needed huge adamantium rivets to hold the armour plates together (hence the really knobbly appearance of the armour.

As the traitors found the same issues as the loyalists they took forgeworlds that enabled them to manufacture MK V armour to replace the damaged MK IV that they were currently using.

Now the older and newer fluff seem to disagree a bit from here on. The main reason being the length of time the hersey went on for. The older fluff has it as about 30 years if memory serves, whereas the newer fluff has it as about 3 years (I think).

Thus in the older fluff as the traitors approached mars they had just produced MK VI armour and that was used to fit out all the loyalist marines on terra (I have no idea what the ultramarines and wolves would have been wearing at this point, most likely a mix of MK II and MK V with almost no MK IV). This was a long term development of MK IV, but using more readlily avaiable marterials.

As horus took mars the facilities to build MK VI armour were being transported to earth and enough was left to allow Horus to manufacture MK VI on mars.

Everyone who made it to terra was then set on designing the replacement for MK VI which was MK VII. As mars was overrun fully MK VII was being produced on luna and terra for the loyalist forces.

So - early hersey forces should be in MK II with some MK III.

Mid hersey traitors should be in MK VI (as should the imperial fists) and the other loyalists should be in MK V.

Late hersey loyalists would look like current marine armies, accept the proportion of mk VII and VI should be reversed (about 3/7). The late traitor armies should be in MK VI.


All of that comes from the very well written space marine armour article that was in wD YEARS ago and the first edition compendium.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

If possible is their any info on the Scouring? As my troops are going to be Crimson Fists, they where only around after the heresy finished so it would be helpful if I knew what I should aim for. At the moment three tactical squads and a devastator squad are in MK VII, while my newest squad is going to be in MK V and I'll be using them as Sternguard but I was wondering whether it's worth adding some MK VI or MK VII bits in.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Maidel said:


> At the start of the hersey (just before the legions went traitor) most of the legions wore mark II armour.


Mk II and Mk III, really.



> Mark IV was just being phased in and as the hersey struck the legions that were sent to put down the inital traitors were all outfitted in mark IV armour. Ironically most of these legions went traitor, or were oblitterated on ivsstan.


Actually, I thought it was clearly stated that this was very prevalent armor, and the original articles on the power armor stated that many of the Legions had converted to Mk IV by the time the Heresy broke out.



> Thus in the older fluff as the traitors approached mars they had just produced MK VI armour and that was used to fit out all the loyalist marines on terra (I have no idea what the ultramarines and wolves would have been wearing at this point, most likely a mix of MK II and MK V with almost no MK IV). This was a long term development of MK IV, but using more readlily avaiable marterials.


Despite the difficulties in maintaining Mk IV, it is still listed as the most prevalent of the armour of the pre-Heresy era.

So, looking at the Great Crusade as a 200-year period...

* The conquest of Terra would be accomplished using Mk I "Thunder" Power Armour.
* The initial expeditions outside of Sol would feature Mk II "Crusade" Power Armour.
* As the Galactic Core is reached (which is close to Terra, and thus can be assumed to be found early in the Crusade), Mk III "Iron" Power Armour.
* Mk IV "Maximus" Power Armour is stated as being introduced at the zenith of the Great Crusade. That would probably be right around the Ullanor Crusade, then.
* Mk V "Heresy" and Mk VI "Corvus" were both developed during the Heresy, and were both aimed at addressing the difficulty of maintaining Mk IV without the necessary logistical support.

The main difference between the two is that Mk V was developed by elements "in the fight"--artificers and Techmarines--as opposed to VI, which was developed by the Mechanicum. Mk V was designed to be a stopgap; Mk VI was designed to be an actual replacement.

So what you're seeing at the time between Isstvan V and the Siege of Terra is:
1. A shrinking number of Mk II and Mk III suits, which had already been getting phased out due to their inferior qualities.
2. A majority (even if a slim one) of Mk IV suits, described as having either partially or completely replaced earlier patterns in many Legions.
3. A growing number of Mk V suits, since these were actually being made in the field.
4. A growing, but much smaller, number of Mk VI suits, since these were being made "in the rear" and would have had difficulty reaching Loyalists for the same reason as replacement parts for Mk IV.

And then, of course, the final battles on Terra saw the fielding of Mk VII "Aquila" Power Armour.

Following the Heresy and the Scouring, the vast majority of loyal Astartes were either dead or had their wargear damaged enough to require replacement. Production on that point focused on Mk VII, but we have to remember that only Terra initially had that capability. Other major production centers would have been pumping out VI until VII templates reached them and they were able to switch as well.

Mk II-IV would no longer be produced. II and III maintained "old school" status, but mostly for ceremony. IV, no longer produced either, but also unhampered by the logistical problems of the Heresy, reclaimed its status and appeal and is stated as affording its wearer great honour. V was also not being produced, and in fact carried with it the stigma of the Heresy to outsiders.

Does that sound accurate enough?

Cheers,
P.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> If possible is their any info on the Scouring? As my troops are going to be Crimson Fists, they where only around after the heresy finished so it would be helpful if I knew what I should aim for. At the moment three tactical squads and a devastator squad are in MK VII, while my newest squad is going to be in MK V and I'll be using them as Sternguard but I was wondering whether it's worth adding some MK VI or MK VII bits in.


The majority should be MK VI and MK VII. There would be very little of the older armours, but if there was any, it would be MK V.

The founding chapters would have kept anything really good for themselves as 'honoured artificats'. They would most likely have let the MKV go because it really was substandard compared the other Mks of armour.




Phoebus said:


> Mk II and Mk III, really.


Nope. MK III, and I quote:

'Was never intended to replace MKII'
'Optional heavy armour type suitable for fighting on board space craft and tunnel complexes'
'MkIII is too clumsy and uncomfortable for everyday use'.

thus, the legions were almost exclusively MK II with MK III for special operations (like a mini terminator armour).



> Actually, I thought it was clearly stated that this was very prevalent armor, and the original articles on the power armor stated that many of the Legions had converted to Mk IV by the time the Heresy broke out.


Again, it depends on the source. At the outbreak of the hersey it was given to those legions who attacked istavaan, and then later one of the HH novels says it was given to the entire imperial fists legion. - Quote - 'The issue of mk IV armour was only half complete when the HH broke out' 'Many of the most recently supplied chapters [legions] were to turn against the imperium.'

While it most likely was given to some of the remaining loyalist legions, those 3 inital traitor legions did not have it (unless I missed something). Thus if it was given to half the legions it went to 4 traitor legions at istvaan and 3 loyalist + the imperial fists for a total of 8. Thus if it was 'half complete' there is another legion who got it, perhaps the luna wolves or space wolves?



> Despite the difficulties in maintaining Mk IV, it is still listed as the most prevalent of the armour of the pre-Heresy era.


Where is it listed? Just asking, never seen that source. My understanding that MK II is far and away the biggest pre-hersey armour type.




> * The conquest of Terra would be accomplished using Mk I "Thunder" Power Armour.


Yes



> * The initial expeditions outside of Sol would feature Mk II "Crusade" Power Armour.


Yes


> * As the Galactic Core is reached (which is close to Terra, and thus can be assumed to be found early in the Crusade), Mk III "Iron" Power Armour.


No, still MK II


> * Mk IV "Maximus" Power Armour is stated as being introduced at the zenith of the Great Crusade. That would probably be right around the Ullanor Crusade, then.


Even later - right before the start of the HH. In Horus rising they are all in MK II, and thats pretty much as late in the crusade as you can get before it being the HH.



> * Mk V "Heresy" and Mk VI "Corvus" were both developed during the Heresy, and were both aimed at addressing the difficulty of maintaining Mk IV without the necessary logistical support.


Yes, and so was MK VII which was used by the loyalists on Terra.



> The main difference between the two is that Mk V was developed by elements "in the fight"--artificers and Techmarines--as opposed to VI, which was developed by the Mechanicum. Mk V was designed to be a stopgap; Mk VI was designed to be an actual replacement.


Yes, but I dont see where the techmarine bit comes from, the bits im reading dont mention that, but it might be the case because it doesnt say otherwise.



> So what you're seeing at the time between Isstvan V and the Siege of Terra is:
> 1. A shrinking number of Mk II and Mk III suits, which had already been getting phased out due to their inferior qualities.


Yes



> 2. A majority (even if a slim one) of Mk IV suits, described as having either partially or completely replaced earlier patterns in many Legions.


50/50 spilt


> 3. A growing number of Mk V suits, since these were actually being made in the field.


For the entire HH until they reached the Sol system



> 4. A growing, but much smaller, number of Mk VI suits, since these were being made "in the rear" and would have had difficulty reaching Loyalists for the same reason as replacement parts for Mk IV.


Id be surprised if many of them made it out of the sol system, I susspect they only saw use on Mars/Terra. But a few probably did get out before hand.



> And then, of course, the final battles on Terra saw the fielding of Mk VII "Aquila" Power Armour.


yup




> Following the Heresy and the Scouring, the vast majority of loyal Astartes were either dead or had their wargear damaged enough to require replacement. Production on that point focused on Mk VII, but we have to remember that only Terra initially had that capability. Other major production centers would have been pumping out VI until VII templates reached them and they were able to switch as well.


I dont think any other productions facities could make MK VI or MK VII until later - anything being made away from Sol would be MK V.


> Mk II-IV would no longer be produced. II and III maintained "old school" status, but mostly for ceremony. IV, no longer produced either, but also unhampered by the logistical problems of the Heresy, reclaimed its status and appeal and is stated as affording its wearer great honour. V was also not being produced, and in fact carried with it the stigma of the Heresy to outsiders.


MK II and III wouldnt be produced anymore.

MK IV couldnt be produced easily, and anyway MK VI was better and covered the same design areas.

MK V wouldnt be produced for the reasons you mentioned, but probably was for legions/chapters far out that needed emergancy supplies because it was 'made using as many pre-mkVI compenants as possible' - thus could be easiliy made from old stock.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Forgeworld's description of Mk IV armour -

"This pattern of power armour was developed towards the end of the Great Crusade, using advanced technologies recovered by Astartes forces from scattered Forge Worlds across the Imperium. Despite being intended as the pinnacle of power armour technology, and containing many advanced systems, MkIV armour remains a valued rarity among most Chapters."

If I'm using Mk V, Mk VI and Mk VII armour which era do you think I should base my Crimson Fists army on?


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Anything from the time of the second founding all the way till their near destruction.

How much MK V. Obviously the more MK V the closer to their founding they will be.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Atm I've only got 5 which I'll be using as Sternguard, they haven't arrived yet and I was considering merging them with MK VII or MK VI bits head wise as well.

I wanted to get a Contemptor Dreadnought sometime but I won't if its against the fluff of the army. I was thinking of getting more older styled armour but I'm not sure, especially since it's a second founding and they are pretty expensive to.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Personally, I wouldnt merge the heads and body bits - if they were the oldest models of armour left in the chapter, chances are they would all be fielded together, rather than in bits.

Also, despite how some of them seem, its really only the MK VI and VII (and VIII) that are all modeled off the same design and are fully interchangable.

Just to give you and idea, in the fluff, MK II and MK III helmets are fixed and the marines head moves inside the helmet....


Yes, is a bit of fluff i am glad they havent repeated since.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Maidel said:


> Nope. MK III, and I quote:
> 
> 'Was never intended to replace MKII'
> 'Optional heavy armour type suitable for fighting on board space craft and tunnel complexes'
> ...


Actually, I said both Mk II and Mk III Power Armour were used. This is correct both factually and chronologically. You're simply further elaborating as to what it was used for specifically. 



> Where is it listed? Just asking, never seen that source. My understanding that MK II is far and away the biggest pre-hersey armour type.


Warhammer 40,000 Compilation Book (also an old publication), which essentially re-printed Rick Priestly's White Dwarf article on Power Armour. I quote...

Per Mk II: 
_"This sort of armour was used throughout the Great Crusade. Many maintain that it is the most efficient of all ... armours, although its overlappening plates are notoriously difficult to repair."_

Note that II had its troubles without the logistical issues and confusion IV was plagued by.

Per Mk III:
_" ... dates from the inner-galactic wars between the Emperor's forces and the inhabitants of worlds close to the galactic core."_

So yes, Mk III was also used early on. Just in a specialized role. 

Per Mk IV:
_"The Great Crusade lasted for approximately 200 years ... Much of the equipment of the past was rapidly wearing out, including the old Mark 2 and 3 armour suits ... While some Marine Chapters chose to continue local production ... the Adeptus Mechanicus set about producing ... the Imperial Maximus Suit.

... The result was only marginally less mobile ... and considerably easier to produce and maintain.

... The Martian factories were turned over to its production and many of the Space Marine armies were entirely or partially re-equipped."_

So, as stated previously, what we're seeing is II (and its specialized variant, III) on the way out, and IV on the way in.

Per Mk V:
_"The general issue of Mark 4 armour was only half complete when the Horus Heresy broke out. ... many of the most recently supplied Chapters were to turn against the Imperium ... The [Techmarines and artificers] had hardly got used to the new armour ... and ... were ... unable to maintain it properly let alone duplicate it

... Production of Mark 4 ... ceased, and [the Mark 5] was designed almost literally overnight.

... Huge quantities were shipped out to Space Marine Chapters during the Heresy, including to Chapters which subsequently went over to Horus."_

By this time you're seeing increasingly fewer suits of II (and III) and a majority mix of IV and V.

Note--I'm guessing the fluff given for IV and V can be reconciled if you consider that the original four Traitors had gotten Mk IV armour right before Isstvan III... and the latter four Traitors had gotten Mk V right before Isstvan V?



> Even later - right before the start of the HH. In Horus rising they are all in MK II, and thats pretty much as late in the crusade as you can get before it being the HH.


Given the timing between Ullanor and the Heresy, I'm sticking with my guns on this one. It would take months, if not longer, for new armour to make it to the fleets fighting the Crusade. Production thus started sometime before "Horus Rising" and was at least halfway through before the events of "Galaxy in Flames" and "Flight of the Eisenstein".



> Yes, but I dont see where the techmarine bit comes from, the bits im reading dont mention that, but it might be the case because it doesnt say otherwise.


It's from the same article I'm quoting.  



> 50/50 spilt


To each their own. The text reads that the replacement process was only "half complete", but I don't read this literally. Furthermore, if the situation was such that the old suits were falling apart, I posit that "specialist suits" like the Mk III, which are described as not being for "every day use" probably saw just that. That is, if the Legions were faced with the prospect of their gear falling apart in combat, they would likely form specialist echelons for their ship-to-ship and tunnel combat actions. That way, they could keep as many Mk II suits in action without risking a warrior dying due to insufficient armour.



> Id be surprised if many of them made it out of the sol system, I susspect they only saw use on Mars/Terra. But a few probably did get out before hand.


Ironically, Priestly's article indicates that once Horus captured Mars, the Traitors started manufacturing VI for themselves, and shipped it out to their allies outside Sol en masse! 

Cheers,
P.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

So this turned into both a minor thread highjack and a good debate? Interesting. 

So it would be OK to use Mk.VII armor as "artificer armor" then, eh? Early model or something. What do you guys think?


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

What it basically comes down to is this:

1. If your Heresy-era army was in vicinity of Sol, you can have any Power Armour you want... minus VIII. Mind you, if there were Word Bearers to be found on Terra right before Isstvan V, that tells me contingents from other Legions could be there as well, all the way to the end.

You can justify VII by saying your Heresy army was from the Siege. Or, if you don't want your army to represent that late an era, you can use VI instead.

2. If your Heresy-era army is from outside Sol, it will be difficult to justify Mk VI (II-V are good to go) and pretty much impossible to justify Mk VII.

I don't know that I would use VII as "artificer" armour, but that's just me.

Cheers,
P.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

That termi armor that malus posted is one of three prototype sculpts done by jes goodwin and bob nasmith for termi armor.
http://www.solegends.com/citcat89/c894106marines-h.htm
Bottom Left corner. The left most one is the predecessor of the more common terminator armor.
http://www.solegends.com/citcat89/c894105marines-h.htm
Which has more or less remained unchanged.
I have not seen armor marks listed anywhere for terminator armor so i would assume there is really only a single standard type in circulation.(excluding gk models of course)
Of course please enlighten me if i am wrong.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

This is what Lexicanum says about Mk VII armour

"Mark 7 armour was developed during the Horus Heresy, and remains in use as the most common form of power armour ten thousand years later. It represents the final major development of Mark 6 armour.

While the final battle for Mars was underway, the Imperium realised the planet would eventually be lost. Armour development teams were transferred to Earth to continue, incorporating their latest work into the armour type that would become Mark 7. As Mars fell to Horus, the new armour began reaching the Space Marines on Terra and Luna.

Mark 7's main improvement is the newly designed chest plastron which covers the chest and arm cabling. The chest bears the Imperial Eagle, giving the armour its common name of Armorum Impetor, or Eagle Armour. 

This mark abandons the studded shoulder armour plate, and replaces the helmet. As Mark 7 is a development of Mark 6, both have a great deal in common, and parts from one mark are readily interchangeable with parts from the other."


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Phoebus said:


> What it basically comes down to is this:
> 
> 1. If your Heresy-era army was in vicinity of Sol, you can have any Power Armour you want... minus VIII. Mind you, if there were Word Bearers to be found on Terra right before Isstvan V, that tells me contingents from other Legions could be there as well, all the way to the end.
> 
> ...


 

All of this is good advice, I concur.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

shaantitus said:


> I have not seen armor marks listed anywhere for terminator armor so i would assume there is really only a single standard type in circulation.(excluding gk models of course)
> Of course please enlighten me if i am wrong.


I have never seen them listed as differing mks of armour, and unlike the power armour which had a history before the HH novels came in, its the HH artwork that has given us the supposedly earlier model of terminator armour.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/8/82/Custodes_terminators.jpg


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## Dracnye (Jul 8, 2011)

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_Armour

Mark 5 "Heresy Armour"
The equipping of the legions was only partially complete when the Horus Heresy broke out. Many of the newly equipped Legions turned against the Imperium while many loyal Legions had old style armour. With war damage and mobile operations resupply for damaged equipment was difficult or impossible. Marine artificers and Techmarines had to use old style equipment from older models to keep the legions fighting. The Mark 5 is commonly called the Heresy Suit. This pattern is distinguished by a studded helmet, shoulder plate and greaves. These studs are the tops of bolts which attach each layer of the armour to one another. The helmet appears to be an early version of the Mk. VII helmet, although it is significantly more low-tech in its design.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

That's misleading as that quote comes from another source, the first few lines about being 'partially complete' in fact refers to the mk IV armour.


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## cragnes417 (Jul 22, 2010)

the books I read describe mark II armour being used mostly during that time line 
mark IV and Mark V were still being introduce to the chapter's


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