# Gunline armies -- your thoughts



## Tau2007 (Jan 25, 2008)

Hi all,
I was thinking of starting an Empire army and going the gunline route. I wanted to see what people think of those kinds of armies.

I love the idea/image of just row after row of handgunners and crossbowmen, with pistoliers and outriders on the flanks and artillery on the heights.

Sure, I might have some halbardiers or greatswords to keep things honest, but I think it'd be a blast (pun intended) to sit back and shoot the bejeezus out of all comers.

And, of course, there'd be a steam tank rolling around, too, to create further mayhem.

Any comments -- pro or con -- on such an army/tactic?

Cheers,
Tau2007


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Gunlines are a bit more unpredictable in WHFB then in 40k. To Hit modifiers combined with LoS problems of blocks will make it quite diffrent from 40k versions of the same armytype:gamer1:

Greatswords are a good choice to include, you will need something that can take a charge and those guys are the best you got! The STank is also a very good "recieving unit" but sadly it costs a rareslot which could have been a Hellblaster:dunno:

Naturally this kind of army fares better against some opponents then others, just like in 40k, but Im sure youve figured that one out:wink:

Empire has a huge ammount of troopers to pick from, probably the best depth of available units in the game, so you wont have too hard a time to change the army should you get boored of missfireing warmachines
Personally Ive blown 2 Great Cannons and a Hellblaster on 6 consecutive dice rolls: Missfire - 1, Missfire - 1, Missfire - 1. That kind of puts artillery out of the plan a while after that:stop:


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

Gunline armies are a good investment if your into tournament armies but they won't win you many friends as they're really tedious to play against. (March up, remove models, hope you've got enough left to kill the weak gunners.)
If you do go for a gunline I wouldn't recommend sending your outriders down the flanks as despite their name and the suggestion of light cav they can't move and fire so if you take them (for the longrifle) they're purely for artillery defense.
Halberds at the moment are better suited to Chaos armies as humans won't survive long enough to do any damage, Despite all my instincts as a fluff gamer the only competative state troop in combat is swordsmen with their higher initiative, WS and save for the cost of a halberdiers sheild.
For a gun line I'd probably just go with handgunners to as long rifles are worth their weight in gold. and the armour piercing helps.
Greatswords are also best left out in a gunline, They're a lot of points,designed to be an offense minded unit which doesn't mesh with the concept of a gunline you'd be better served getting some free company to sheild your guns and for misdirection.


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## Tau2007 (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks a lot to the both of you for the great advice!

Cheers,
Tau2007


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Gunline armies are, by and large, a one-trick pony. If your going to gunline it up, you need to go all out: don't even bother with melee units because they wont be enough to stop a bunch of pissed-off madafakas once they hit your gunline. It is best to invest in shooting units and artillery out the ying yang so that you have all the more bullets flying into the enemy every turn.

So far, the toughest gunlines to crack that I've faced are Dwarf and Empire lines, but the Dark Elf line is no slouch. Of course, you have to tailor your line according to what army you're facing; use weapons that can put out a lot of shots against horde armies like VC, and use armor-piercing black powder for Chaos and Brets.


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## Tau2007 (Jan 25, 2008)

Hi Captain,
So you wouldn't have ANY melee units to protect the artillery units or to keep the gunners from being flanked?

I'm going to have some non-gunner units, if only because I got a great deal on the 2007 Empire Army box set, which comes with 8 knights, 10 pistoliers/outriders, 20 state troops, and 20 flagellants.

I figure I can use the state troops and flagellants to protect the gunner flanks and the pistoliers/outriders to protect the artillery. I'll probably charge the knights up one flank just for the sheer hell of it.

Then the rest of my money will be spent on unit after unit of gunners and artillery pieces.

Yay, black powder!

:victory:

Cheers,
Tau2007


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

What ever you do, GET SOME ENGINEERES AND A CAPTAIN ON PEGASI!
Engineers will go miles toward keeping your war machines alive, while the pegasi flies around behind the enemy march blocking them. Anything you can do to keep them from marching is MANDATORY. Gun line is dirty, and will make everyone hate you, but if you are going to do it, do it right. Slow the enemy down so that you get the most shots possible before they hit you. A standard army can cover that 24" gap in 3 turns, with turn 3 being a charge. If you can march block them you will get two full turns of extra shooting and the enemy will only get one or two turns max to cut you up in melee.


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## Stuntiesrule (Mar 22, 2009)

Guns Guns and more guns you won't have the lack of blowing up dwarfs can get with their WM but again take engineers and shot them all good luck with the powder.


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## Tau2007 (Jan 25, 2008)

Hi Karl,
Well, I'm playing with a group of friends, so I don't mind making them hate me. LOL I've never entered a tournament and, frankly, based on all I've read and heard about them, I probably won't. The odds of running into a real jerk seem too high. I'd rather just play with my friends and not worry about some idiot ruining the game. 

My intrinsic love for melee will probably be too strong to overcome at some point, and I'll start fielding 24 knights. LOL

Thanks for the suggestions re. engineers and pegasi!

Cheers,
Tau2007


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Tau2007 said:


> Hi Captain,
> So you wouldn't have ANY melee units to protect the artillery units or to keep the gunners from being flanked?


Nope; especially in small games (< 2250pts). I've seen firsthand the horrifying power of strict gunlines, and even had the dubious pleasure of being on the business end of one. I run a mostly cavalry High Elf army with Tyrion at 2250pts, and by Turn 3 I had only one half-strength unit left. It was a Dwarf gunline btw.



Tau2007 said:


> I'm going to have some non-gunner units, if only because I got a great deal on the 2007 Empire Army box set, which comes with 8 knights, 10 pistoliers/outriders, 20 state troops, and 20 flagellants.


In that situation, just field whatever you can. I'd only suggest having only shooty units if you can afford real-money wise.


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

I'd be interested to see how this works. My Empire army is being themed around the religiosity of the Empire with all of my characters being Warrior Priests and taking two units of flagellants one as core and another as rare. Guns will be detachments for me, though i can see how you'd want an entire army of just guns guns and more guns.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Just to point out a minor thing here, you may want to consider at least having the option to bring some melee units. If you face OK with gorgers or WoC with Wulfric you are likely to lament your lack of CC troops pretty quickly. There are quite a few nasty options for various armies that can (some if used intelligently, some easily) cause serious trouble to a gunline.

If I were playing you and you had a fully static line with no CC troops I would quickly start to plan ways to take advantage of that, I would imagine your regular opponents aren't just going to line up and walk across the table each time. Also, if you do go full static gunline then try to be as friendly and sportsmanlike as you possibly can, even if your opponent is whinging. The last thing you want when playing a gunline is some arsehole who crows over your losses and laughs every time you thin a unit out.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

People who say that No Melee troops in a Gunline army are talking Shit, bluntly.

Dwarves can pull it off. But that's what having Great Weapons, T4 and a 4+ Ranged Armour Save can do on your ranged units.

Empire, High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, and Tomb Kings are the shootiest armies. They are all fragile, and need something to keep the attention from a methodical march up the front, take damage, then hit them.

You're going to need movement, and a hitty unit, especially with the proliferation of flanking and hit them from behind armies - TikTakTo with his Terradons are awesome, and Wulfrik is just a Murderer, not to mention having 20 Marauders with Flails *behind* your lines, out of Line of Sight, and charging to the rear, you'll lose sharpish.

All non Dwarf Gunlines require something to counter enemy flankers. This is a Heavy Cavalry unit. I wouldn't leave home without one - 5 Heavy Cavalry, with Lances, Full Command, maybe a War Banner, maneuvre that into the flank of an enemy charger, voila, instant +6 SCR in your favour (Enemy Loses Ranks, and Banner, you have +2 from the Warbanner and Standard). Slap on 6 Str 6 Attacks, they'll be needing to roll Snake Eyes to stay.

You'll need a unit of that to counter toughies, such as Warriors of Chaos, Dwarven Gunlines (You will lose versus Dwarves in a shooting match), and Saurus. 3+ Saves really put a dampener on your attacks.

I've fought quite a few gunlines over the years - with all forms of Chaos Warriors, Daemons, Beasts of Chaos, High Elves, and a Bretonnian Army. High Elves faired the worst - Losing their armour saves, and wounded on 3's is pretty easy to kill them with Armour Piercing Handgunners, although White Lions (as expected) work well, only Phoenix Guard doing better, but overall, not much else other than weather the storm.

Bretonnians worked the best. Second Turn Charges with 6 Heavy Cavalry Units, charging over the board edge, and then coming on the next turn worked wonders. But that's to be expected, although the Cannons proved to be a pain, killing 12 Knights out of 72.

Chaos Warriors are the most resilient, but slowest. 3+ Saves and Toughness 4 goes a long way, and have only lost against Gunlines when they've included something which takes the onus away from the Shooters - i.e Heavy Cavalry, or an Ironbreaker Anvil Unit.

Beasts of Chaos are actually pretty good. Warhounds, Warhounds Warhounds, and Skirmishing Melee units. Ranged units worst nightmare. You'll need something to counter them.

Strict Gunlines for Dwarves work, but as said, they have flexibility in their Ranged units to both tank (3+ Melee Save, 4+ Range Save, or Str 5 with a 5+ Save), while Empire have a 6+ Save, and Toughness 3. Halberdiers aren't that good, they're too weak, and can't utilise the shield as well. Only use these as Detachments for Spearmen, so you can get a charge.

I did an army like this to see how it would go, and I had something like 80 Handgunners, 2 Mortars, 2 Cannons, 2 Rocket Batteries and 4 Engineers with Pigeon Bombs. Very good fun.


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