# The Dark Angels Corner



## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

OK, so this thread is basically for anything generically related to the Dark Angels (and their successor chapters). Be it asking about fluff, tips for units, or help with a homebrew chapter, this is the place. 
I know this is kinda mixing forums, but it allows all us Unforgiven lovers to converge somewhere share their hunt for the Fallen.

I'll start by giving some useful unit tactica links (i know they're mine, but still :laugh :

Dark Angels In-depth Tactica
Dark Angels Company Veterans Tactica
Dark Angels Techmarine Tactica
Ravenwing Tactica
Deathwing Tactica
Vanilla Space Marine Dreadnought Tactica
Scout Tactica
Vanilla Space Marine Tactica
The Dark Fortress


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Unforgiven Lovers? That sounds very Dark Angels... The darkest secret of all.


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## mr_fallout (Apr 11, 2011)

This makes me think of an excellent question. Why did they ever remove Asmodai from the codex? I've seen, in parts of it, that they talk about him. Not dead, as alive. So why remove him from the codex?


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## Ninjurai (Mar 31, 2010)

darklove said:


> Unforgiven Lovers? That sounds very Dark Angels... The darkest secret of all.


ROFL!!!!!!!!!! Shhhh....You'll give away the ending.


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## WinZip (Oct 9, 2010)

Lets try to keep this thread serious guys. I like the idea for this thread spanner94ezekiel and when i have some free time ill scrounge around for some helpful DA articles.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Oh, it's very serious - and there is a Hampshire connection, which I found out about recently. It was all very interesting and informative.


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

I've recently started collecting DA, I'm going for the niche armies, and I'm currently sitting at about 600 points of Deathwing and 750 points of Ravenwing. I used the Deathwing last week against Dark Eldar, and pulled a very convincing draw.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Cool stuff people 
In response to the question about Asmodai, my guess is that the model wasn't too popular, so they phased him out of the codex. However, due to popular demand I have a feeling he may make an appearance in the next codex...
@Grokfog I believe I've seen a couple of your lists and you seem to know what you're doing, so good luck with your games :victory:
@WinZip cheers mate, it would be great for this thing to actually work, seeing as most of my ideas don't :laugh:
@Ninjurai and Darklove, just LOL but maybe another time, another thread?


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Okays, thought I'd revive this by posting a link to my new DA 3rd company WIP.

:victory:


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Found this excellent site that contains a whole range of tacticas, guides, armies, lists etc etc. It's called The Dark Fortress, so check it out if you're looking for more Unforgiven stuff.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Good idea of a Thread for DA, alhough I only play 'pure' Death Wing which doesn't get a whole lotta love here....all that RW Land Speeder/Vindicator/Predator inclusion going on. I understand why that is done, but there's no way I'm buying into it - 'pure' for life.

Looking forward to all that this thread produces...The Dark Fortress looks good.


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## VX485 (Feb 17, 2011)

Will be keeping an eye on this, my first army was DA, they have been on the back burner for awhile but i knoe when they get a new dex i'll be adding a heap to them - not far off having a whole company


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## thefallen (Sep 21, 2011)

I got into DA back in 2nd ed. They were my first, and still favorite army. 
I was wondering what people think about the fluff dynamic of the fallen angels. Who do you think were the real good guys? Fallen angels or ”loyalist” dark angels.
The heresy books paint the lion in a questionable light. The fluff of the fallen angel confessions point the finger at the lion as a heretic. are they lies of a condemned man or eye witness accounts? 
What do you think?
Im leading twards a little bit of both. The fallen were bordering on being renegade, but they were ”knight of the order” as such honorable men. Though they didnt like the fact that the empire showing up and taking over. Messing up 5k years of tradition.
It is also a little suspect that the lion got ”stuck” in the warp. Preventing his urgently needed aid to the emperor.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

thefallen said:


> I got into DA back in 2nd ed. They were my first, and still favorite army.
> I was wondering what people think about the fluff dynamic of the fallen angels. Who do you think were the real good guys? Fallen angels or ”loyalist” dark angels.
> The heresy books paint the lion in a questionable light. The fluff of the fallen angel confessions point the finger at the lion as a heretic. are they lies of a condemned man or eye witness accounts?
> What do you think?
> ...


I'm not one to shatter illusions, but you shouldn't ask questions you might not want the answers to.

GW have not deviated in any way from the background material from when Dark Angels first appeared. The homage to the source material has not been disputed, and continues to have a subliminal impact on the story ark of this Chapter.

I'm not allowed to say more on it in this thread; some people truly venerate DA and I don't want to upset anyone.


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## Caratacos (Aug 26, 2008)

That discussion is already afoot in the fluff section: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=105904 It is heavy on spoilers.

As for an army, I have a tri-wing army which is about 6-7k large. Most often I do field tri-wing, because I like it th most. My favourite HQ is Azrael. I usually field him together with nine or ten stormbolter armed veterans.


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## thefallen (Sep 21, 2011)

Caratacos said:


> That discussion is already afoot in the fluff section: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=105904 It is heavy on spoilers.
> 
> As for an army, I have a tri-wing army which is about 6-7k large. Most often I do field tri-wing, because I like it th most. My favourite HQ is Azrael. I usually field him together with nine or ten stormbolter armed veterans.


Good link, thanks. Its a great reference point to my questions.. But its more of a recap of fluff relating to the ”fall of caliban”.
Im sorry that I thought this thread was about dark angels related stuff. I missed the part where we only say if we like em or not and how many toys we have.
@ darklove if people cant handle a question of opinion, relating to a factious background story for toy soldiers. They seriously need to go back to the doctor for some stronger psyke meds. Im just trying to add some content to the thred.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

thefallen said:


> @ darklove if people cant handle a question of opinion, relating to a factious background story for toy soldiers. They seriously need to go back to the doctor for some stronger psyke meds. Im just trying to add some content to the thred.


I meant the inspiration for the creation of the Dark Angels and Lion El'Jonson. Some people don't like it, and it puts them off.


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## Caratacos (Aug 26, 2008)

thefallen said:


> Good link, thanks. Its a great reference point to my questions.. But its more of a recap of fluff relating to the ”fall of caliban”.
> Im sorry that I thought this thread was about dark angels related stuff. I missed the part where we only say if we like em or not and how many toys we have.


True that. I misread your post a bit.

In my world it is very hard to make a stand. 

In the beginning we had the first loyalist legion. When the Fallen took a stand, they became something else. Most probably under the influence of chaos. In my eyes they became something like unhappy separatists.

The remaining loyalists turned into something else as well. They are still true to the Emperor, but their motives are clouded. They leave their fellow imperial troops in trouble, just to set out on a hunt for the Fallen. There are even indications of them destroying a Black Templar ship.

So I really can't say who I see as the good guys.

The motives of the Fallen, Caliban born Dark Angels, were pretty just I think. They would have been much better left on their own. But still, seen from an imperial point of view, Caliban was a human world, belonging to the world of the Emperor.

And since the Fallen took a stand against the Lion and the Imperium, the Loyalists were right in their actions, when it came to destroying the Fallen. But what they became afterwards is a question of doubt. Much like Astellan points out they are far from what they once were.

And I play Dark Angels, but I have a hard time liking their ways. I really do like the miniatures, the colour scheme, the whole "tri-wing" thing. But in truth, I'd like a more noble, honourable and glorious chapter.

I hope this was a little bit more of what you were asking for


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Well, this thread is becoming more interesting as it goes along. I look forward to seeing how everything develops, especially since I picked up DA as a back burner Chapter last December.


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## Izzleydill (Jul 11, 2010)

I believe the fallen have been convinced by the Chaos Gods that they are doing the right thing. My thing is the fact of, only chaos space marines can live for 10,000 years right? Using the powers of the warp, blah blah blah. Anyways I haven't read all of the novel stuff, but that one fact makes me believe that the fallen have become Chaos on accident (which has happened quite a lot).

On a personal note I also like to go back to older fluff, prefering it over a lot of the more recent stuff. I have a personal reason to also believe that the fallen did actually go to Chaos, thanks to earlier fluff, just as I will always see the necrons fluff personally in the light of their 3rd edition codex, not the more recent one.


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## VX485 (Feb 17, 2011)

Update from the front, my DA detachment just annihlated a massive tyranid swarm along with numerous monsterous creaturs while only sustaining very light casualties. - true story :biggrin: DA stubborness lives up to it's reputation


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Spanner, I was actually planning on PM'ing you one of these days but I guess asking here would benefit the community more.

Ive been entertaining the idea of deathwing. An all terminator army would seem rather rewarding to win with....and Id like to have more experience in painting with all the colors involved. There seems to be a rather mindnumbingly endless debate on loadouts. The most common of sorts being x4 TH/SS (1 with CML), x1 SB/CF. 

You seem to have a grasp on DA, what do you run? Do you magnetize and switch around? Since the FAQ, do shooty deathwing armies still have a place? Do you have to mix support units in, or are all terminator armies viable? 

Anyone with experience or input feel free to contribute also, this isnt limited to spanner, and thanks for any replies


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

I do like the survivability with having storm shield but against orks, guard, tyranids and some Eldar armies you're going to want some Lightning claw attacks as well to soften them up before they get to attack and have to try and save them all before the hammers attack. The CML is usually better than an assault cannon as it has twice the range and can use frag or krak missiles to take out vehicles or infantry equally well.

Best bet I think is to mix some squads up with a CML and some claws but have one that is fdesigned just to kill things in CC with Belial to really turn the pressure up.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

@Ravner298:
Deathwing I find tends to work well with a variety of squad loadouts. For pure DW, at at least 1500, you want about 2 or more 'generic assault' units, i.e. 4x TH/SS, CF/SB, CML. These guys bear the brunt of the fighting, using the chainfist for anti-tank, cyclone for anti-transport, and then the TH/SS make a mess of everything else.

Then you want at least 1 'shooty' unit. Despite the abundance of good armour, they still have a place in the army, as most of your army is CC orientated, so a squad like this makes all the difference against infantry armies. I tend to run as a basic squad with assault cannon, as the rending does stuff that CMLs can't, and maybe chuck in a chainfist as a safeguard. Taking a CML is a fair alternative though, as you also get the additional stormbolter - however I advise against taking a HF on any squad except one riding in a land raider as they simply won't get close enough to use it half the time, so is a waste of a heavy weapon. 

Belial's squad needs to be a mix of both if there's no transport, but if you are taking one (which I advise), then go for a DLC and TH/SS split, but keep a chainfist handy for walker assaults. The apothecary is far more useful than the banner, but the latter is useful if you have the points. If taking both and dual HQ, then split the HQs and banner/apoth into two squads to provide a dual threat - as a secondary HQ I always go for Interrogator-chaplain as the buffs it provides are sweet, while the libby isn't worth the points, even for the unlimited psychic hood. However, if you're running in a transport or footslogging, don't be afraid to take a PA model, as their invun will be good enough against most attacks anyway.

With regards to the issue of splitting armament in squads into DLC vs. TH/SS, I always think DLC are pretty pointless unless used in a majority, as the output is about equivalent to TH/SS, but without the defensive capabilities. Therefore, I only go for a minimum of 4 DLC. The last model I give either TH/SS for defensive, or CF/AC for anti-tank. If you're mostly fighting infantry, however, it's possible to go max DLC, particularly if you have a ride.

Finally, with regards to deployment, I always find it better to have at least 1 land raider squad, and more so at 2000+. Land raider's are invaluable for providing protection and mobility to your otherwise slow and potentially vulnerable terminators. Although they can be one-shotted by melta, I find that you can always find solutions to that e.g. smoke or cover. I tend not to deep strike CC units unless in large quantities (3 or more), as otherwise scatter becomes an issue and they can be destroyed piecemeal. Even DWA doesn't provide a permanent solution to this, though it is helped by the use of RW teleporter homers. I don't mind deepstriking shooty units, though I often find it more valuable to walk them up, as they don't really be wanting to see CC.


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

With regards to Deathwing, my preferred method is to specialise. Hence, I have one squad all armed with TH/SS (and one with a CML), one squad all armed with DLC (And a CML), then 2 squads loaded for shooting, one with a CML, the other with an assault cannon. Then depending on my opponent they change their deployment roles to suit.


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Don't underestimate lightning claws. 4 swings on the charge at I4 can make a significant difference when fighting opponents with access to power weapons and armor (marines), or large amount of attacks (orks). 

I run a deathwing command squad with 
2 TH/SS
1 APOTH w/ HF + CF
1 TLC w/ Company Banner
1 TLC or TH/SS Preference
Belial with LC's. (Don't waste that I!) 

Basic DW loadout for me is
2 TH/SS 
1 LC
1 CF/SB
1 LC or TH/SS depending on pref
w CML.

It allows for a benefit from would allocation as well as being right killy versus everything.


Shooty Squad is 
1 TH/SS
2 PF/SB
1 CF/SB
1 PF/SB/CML

3++ for stray high AP shots, variety for wound alocation, CF for dealing with walkers and other nastiness. CML for popping everything. Plus 8 SB shots.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Good info! How well does DW hold up against newer armies? If I recall, its a 4th edition dex with some modernizing in the FAQ. On paper, it seems like it'd have major problems against armies like DE and necrons...which is unfortunate because my buddy plays necrons and will be my common opponent. Should I stay away until they get a better book?


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Yes, against venomspam DE you will suffer due to the lack of mobility and the fact that most of your army is infantry. Tbh I have no idea about Newcrons as I haven't played against them, but if you reach combat, I believe Reanimation Protocols aren't an issue for weapons that ignore armour saves, so they're less of an issue. GK aren't too bad either as if you can take down their transports early with cyclones, then essentially you have the same range shooting as each other, except your termies are troops.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Just curious, but, is there any point in running regular marines with a DW build?


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

What do you mean? If you mean power armoured troops alongside DW, I would say to an extent yes. Tri-wing is IMO the best way to play DA, using Deathwing, Ravenwing and 'greenwing' to each of their advantages. Essentially, the bests lists work at high levels, where you can fit Sammael and Belial in. You take two RW, two DW and two tacticals as troops, all with different roles. Then you fill the elites with two dreads and belial's DW squad, the fast attack with land speeder typhoons, and the heavy support with land raiders, preds, vindies etc.

The regular marines are there as support and to hold objectives, while the DW do all the dirty work.


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## StalkerZero (Oct 3, 2010)

Pretty exciting to see so much interest in DA lately. 

I play Fallen Deathwing and must say it's one of the most fun armies I've played. Very unique to have so much survivability and ability to dish out pain.

I run my Fallen fluff as if they were looking to do nearly the same with Chaos as DA are trying to do with the Emperor (make up for something that no one but them really cares about period). So they are trying to hunt and purge the Dark Angels from existence.

Personally, I think a full on TH/SS with 1 SB/CF in each squad is a ridiculously efficient set up for the whole army. As long as you support them with Speeders it's tough to kill and can put down almost any army (like others I mainly have problems with DE). 

This is a huge WOW factor army. People love to think that killing 31 Terminators is easy. Not so easy when 25 of them are packing 2+/3++.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> What do you mean? If you mean power armoured troops alongside DW, I would say to an extent yes. Tri-wing is IMO the best way to play DA, using Deathwing, Ravenwing and 'greenwing' to each of their advantages. Essentially, the bests lists work at high levels, where you can fit Sammael and Belial in. You take two RW, two DW and two tacticals as troops, all with different roles. Then you fill the elites with two dreads and belial's DW squad, the fast attack with land speeder typhoons, and the heavy support with land raiders, preds, vindies etc.
> 
> The regular marines are there as support and to hold objectives, while the DW do all the dirty work.


Sweet. I've two Raven Wings and 10 Deathwing Termies as well as a Belial and Sammael. I'm curious as to what would take up the Dedicated Transport slots and if there are Landraiders in there for the two DW used as Troops.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Unfortunately, for DA there is no option for the DW to take land raiders as troops - however there is no such thing as a dedicated transport slot. That's limited by the number of units that may take such a vehicle, not by FOC limits.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> Unfortunately, for DA there is no option for the DW to take land raiders as troops - however there is no such thing as a dedicated transport slot. That's limited by the number of units that may take such a vehicle, not by FOC limits.


Oh, I didn't realize that DW didn't get a DT.


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## Caratacos (Aug 26, 2008)

Do you think that it would look good to use Mk III Iron Armour for veterans? And would it do good enough to use them as they are, or do you think that I shall try to make robes?


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Tbh it is entirely up to you for how you model your units. I think that if you like Mk III armour then go ahead. As for robes, I don't know if it goes with that particular mark, bu again that's your decision. Fluff-wise, I think you might want a mix of various marks to represent they're the company's finest, so have survived from different wars and campaigns.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Deathwing tactica

DA Rumours

Just a couple of useful links


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

DA 6th edition Analysis

An update!


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## Brother Belphor (Jul 26, 2012)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> Deathwing tactica
> 
> DA Rumours
> 
> Just a couple of useful links


just joined Heresy Online but i heve to say this is by far my favorite corner.

Thanks for the Dark Angels updates :victory:


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## Kreestafa (Apr 10, 2013)

I'm a serious dark angels fanboy. All I can say is use drop pods. the teleport homers make your turn 2 the endagme. Seriously. try it.


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

Kreestafa said:


> I'm a serious dark angels fanboy. All I can say is use drop pods. the teleport homers make your turn 2 the endagme. Seriously. try it.


How are you even sure that you gonna get those Drop pods to drop on turn 2? Also you need to use Belial or Bikes for teleport homer


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