# Elysian Drop Troops



## arizonajirt (Apr 5, 2011)

So I have been looking around Forge World and have had my eyes on the Elysian Drop Troops. does anyone have them or field them. Are they about the same as normal Imperial Guard, but with more Airborne abilities? If you do have them and play them, is it as its own force or as an expansion to an existing IG army?


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## arizonajirt (Apr 5, 2011)

So from the fact that 60ish people have looked at this so far and no comments, that no one uses Elysian Drop troops.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

I know Vaz does...maybe when he turns up you'll get some decent advice.

There is a stand-alone Elysian army list in IA8 that I hear is pretty damn good, and it could be even better than just using the IG Codex to represent them, mainly because Vendettas/Valkyries are dedicated transports in the IA8 list, not just FA choices like in the Codex.


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## arizonajirt (Apr 5, 2011)

Thank you. I have all of the IA books, or will at least once the new apocalpyse shows up in the mail. I have read the IA8 book since I also play Raven Guard. Which this also gives me a good reason to buy the Elysian Drop Troops. Hopefully Vaz shows up sometime soon and provides his knowledge and wisdom.


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## folketsfiende (Nov 21, 2011)

I do have an Elysian army - 2600 points of Forgeworld (mostly) goodness (here's a link), and play them as an army of their own in friendly games. I tend to deep strike most of the forces, since this is the main advantage of the army. If you're still following this thread and have any specific questions, I think I'll be able to answer them...


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## arizonajirt (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks folketsfiende, I have in mind getting the following items to build a stand alone Elysian army. 

1 senior command squad
2 junior command squads
6 drop troop squads
6 vendetta/valkyries
4 tauros assault vehicles
2 tauros venator vehicles
4-6 valkyrie sky talons
6 drop sentinels
various heavy weapons (not sure which yet)

I think this would be a good all around army which I could make work for a lot. 

now as for some questions: are the drop sentinels really worth it, or would a standard sentinel work just as well?
do you have the tauros vehicles, and if so, do you ever use them, are they good, or are they just a point killer?

Thanks in advance for your help


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## folketsfiende (Nov 21, 2011)

arizonajirt said:


> Thanks folketsfiende, I have in mind getting the following items to build a stand alone Elysian army.
> 
> 
> 1 senior command squad
> ...


Bear in mind that Elysians do not have access to all the heavy weapons regular does. They can have missile launchers, heavy bolters or mortars.

Sky talons are not a great asset. Having so many might be a bit of a point waste. Since they're exceedingly cool, I understand why you want to have them, but their uses are limited. They can transport tauros vehicles and sentinels, but the tauros vehicles are fast and are Scouts, so rarely will they need a transport. The sentinels can deep strike, which most of the time will mean that you can land them where you want them.

I think you should consider a Long range ground scanner. It's pretty nifty being able to twinlink an infantry squad now and then. I once managed to twinlink a combined squad of twenty, giving them the order First rank fire, thus enabling me to squeeze out 54 twinlinked lasgun shots at a daemon - which felt great!

As for your questions:

Sentinels: If you run the IA8 rules there is only one kind of sentinel, and that's the drop sentinel. The main problem with sentinels for regular guard are their squishyness, which is not much helped by going for extra armour and similar upgrades. IG sentinels will probably get blasted to bits early on since they pose a managable threat (they carry heavy weapons, but are easily dealt with). Drop sentinels have the pros of regular sentinels, but fewer of the cons. Since you can drop them in on your enemy, the low AV is not a big issue, you are likely to get the chance to shoot your preferred target before you get blown to bits. My favourite is the Heavy flamer Drop Sentinel - get close and personal! Remember that you can't assault on the same turn that you deep strike though...

Tauros vehicles: The regular (small) tauros is well invested points. You get a mobile and durable special rules grenade launcher or a heavy flamer. Don't invest to many points in upgrades though.

The venator (the sixwheeled kind) is not as interesting, though more durable. I f you run a list with many Vendettas you have no real need for more twinlinked lascannons, and the multilaser is not as interesting as blast weapons like the grenade launcher. I can't see a place in your list for the venator, when considering game value/points cost.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Sorry, missed this thread. Don't tend to travel around the army lists that much these days.



> 1 senior command squad
> 2 junior command squads
> 6 drop troop squads
> 6 vendetta/valkyries
> ...


Bear in mind this is purely from a gaming view , model wise, I have yet to find major fault with any of the Elysians.

For units - you need your Senior Command Squad. Don't tool it. Just give it melta's or Plasmas (preferably plasma, it's your highest concentration and most forgiving access to it thanks to FNP). I like having Dedicated Valkyrie Transports, but if you want to go for a "Knights of Arnhem" style Drop Troop army, then obviously that's up to you.


Due to the expense of having a platoon in valks, you're looking at a minimum of nearly 500points before upgrades, so these should be your blob squads to deep strike.

i much prefer to just run Veterans in Valkyries with Twin Rocket Pods. You can't really argue with 12 Ordnance Templates a turn.

Vendetta's are fast attack - I max the fast attack slots, taking 1 vendetta in each. That means I miss out on Venators - which provide the other majority anti-armour aside from infantry in the army list - although they put out a decent amount of firepower for less, and are one of the most resilient squadrons out there, even with twin hunter killers they are only capable of providing one turn of 3x TL Lascannon and 6x Hunter Killer Missile before reverting to 3x TL Lascannon - whereas two Vendettas for a similar price provide 6x TL Lascannons and 4x heavy Bolters for all game (ignoring potential damage).

Drop Sentinels are Brilliant - multi-meltas make them high threat. At such a cheap cost, you can Deep Strike Suicide them - and your opponent has to waste shots on them after they've invariably toasted something they didn't want toasting - or risk losing something else. As they're vehicles, they're more resilient than Storm Troopers - but I find them useful as well - 2x minimum units with paired Melta guns and a pair of Drop Sents with multi-meltas can make a mess of any enemy rear line vehicles.

long Range Ground Scanner. Cheap as chips - make sure you max out the squad size, but as you can twin-link you units shooting it makes them more threatening than normal - making them more accurate than marines at shooting.

Sky Talons - Free enemy kill points. No real need for them aside from looking pretty. Sure you can transport your vehicle units faster - but you also sacrifice that units shooting. It's rare that you'll need to transport your unit faster than preferring to shoot.

I'll dig my list out at a more convenient time. or probably update it, considering the amount of new armies that have come out since (not just Codices, but other existing codices changing to counter the new ones).


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## arizonajirt (Apr 5, 2011)

Thank you both for your help with this. I now know what I want to do. The Sky talons are neat, but what you two have told me, I may only get one, if even that. Ill throw together a list tonight if I get a chance and will ask for your surpreme guidence. YOu both have been a great help breaking everything down for me.


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## folketsfiende (Nov 21, 2011)

Vaz said:


> For units - you need your Senior Command Squad. Don't tool it. Just give it melta's or Plasmas (preferably plasma, it's your highest concentration and most forgiving access to it thanks to FNP). I like having Dedicated Valkyrie Transports, but if you want to go for a "Knights of Arnhem" style Drop Troop army, then obviously that's up to you.
> 
> i much prefer to just run Veterans in Valkyries with Twin Rocket Pods. You can't really argue with 12 Ordnance Templates a turn.


It's good to remember though, that following IA8 you can only have one plasma or melta in the Company Command Squad. So, you cannot count on the CCS to dish out significant damage that way. If you wanna hurt the enemy with the CCS it might be a good idea to opt for the heavy weapon team with a missile launcher or mortar. Otherwise, the CCS is obviously good for issuing orders.

The Multiple Rocket Pods are not Ordnance. I don't know if this makes any difference. S4 Large Blast is devastating, especially if run in larger numbers.


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## arizonajirt (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks again for all of the advice. I am figuing out how I want to build this so I know how many of the Forge World employees kids I'll be sending through college on this order.


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## arizonajirt (Apr 5, 2011)

So what I have come up with so far is this. please let me know what you think

Company Command Squad - w/ plasma, medpack, aux granade launchers, vox, valkyrie
Long range scanner team
Platoon Command Squad - w/ Melta, vox, aux granade launchers, valkyrie
3 drop troop squads - w/ Melta, vox, aux granade launchers, valkyrie
Vet Squad - shotguns, melta x2, granade launcher, valkyrie w/ rocket pods
vet squad - aux granade launchers, Bolt pistol, Plasma x2, melta x1, valkyrie rocket pods
Drop sentinels squads X2 - 3 melta, 3 flamers
2 Vendetta Squadrons - w/ bolters
1 Tauros squadron - w/ granade launchers

eventually I want to add the special weapons teams (snipers) and some heavy bolter teams. 

What do you think? all squads mounted in Valkyries, Sentinel squads deep striked, and harrass the enemy with the fast attack choices?

so this list will send someone's child at forge world to Oxford University no doubt. Comments and suggestions please.


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## folketsfiende (Nov 21, 2011)

> So what I have come up with so far is this. please let me know what you think
> 
> Company Command Squad - w/ plasma, medpack, aux granade launchers, vox, valkyrie
> Long range scanner team
> ...


Looks very fast. You'll be able to zip around the battlefield, outrunning all but eldar, and even them most of the time. Seeing as how the Vendettas will probably move around a lot to get the best shooting angle, chances are that you'll almost never get to use those heavy bolters (they don't count as defensive weapons).

If you're planning to deep strike any of the units, you might wanna invest in a homing beacon or two.

The Valkyries transporting the platoon units are not kitted yet. The best idea is probably to keep using Rocket pods.

Since you have so many transports, what are you aiming for pointswise? Remember that some troops (sniper teams, melta heavy units etc) work well when deep striking into the enemys midst. Sure, you'll take a few casualties yourself, but with a homing beacon you can reduce the risk, and the look on your opponents face will be priceless when he/she realizes that there's suddenly an enemy unit blasting their tanks away from close range...

Lastly, with a list like this, you will have fun. Elysians are intense and powerful, but not op (IMHO), so hopefully your adversaries will enjoy the games as well.


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## arizonajirt (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure about points since I have only got to play two games this year. I live to build whole companies and apocalypse armies (already owning 3). I haven't kitting the Valkyries yet since I wasn't sure how to at this point. It's going tone crazy fun building this list. Thank you both for all of your input and help. I'll start a wip log when I order the models after the start of the year.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Vendetta's should take heavy bolters. As the other lascannons you have require you to be Combat Speed to fire them you might as well also take the Heavy Bolters as there's very little else to take.

How big is the Tauros Squadron? If just one, I'd personally not bother taking it. The list can often bleed kill points and that's an extremely easy way of throwing it away.

How many Aux Grenade Launchers do you have in the squads?

Have you got any additional members in the LRGS Team?

Vet Squad, don't bother mixing weapons. Just go for one build. If you're just out of range of torching a tank with the melta rule, then an extra melta will make all the difference. Also, against Heavy Infantry, it'll net you a further kill that a Frag or Krak Grenade would be unlikely to.

Drop Sentinels - I favour units of two, personally, but that's due to risk losing so much firepower in one shot. Personally, I'd drop one Heavy Flamer Drop Sent in favour of a second Multi-melta, and run 2x2 MM, and 1x2 HF.

Vets shouldn't really be engaging in H2H - I'd go for Lasgun's personally. If you really need to assault that badly, then an extra shot is likely to be much more useful due to BS4 than 1 shot and assault at WS3 without melee weapons.

As for your Valks, I'd suggest just run Rocket Pods. Best way IMHO.


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## folketsfiende (Nov 21, 2011)

Vaz said:


> Vendetta's should take heavy bolters. As the other lascannons you have require you to be Combat Speed to fire them you might as well also take the Heavy Bolters as there's very little else to take.
> 
> Vet Squad, don't bother mixing weapons. Just go for one build. If you're just out of range of torching a tank with the melta rule, then an extra melta will make all the difference. Also, against Heavy Infantry, it'll net you a further kill that a Frag or Krak Grenade would be unlikely to.
> 
> Vets shouldn't really be engaging in H2H - I'd go for Lasgun's personally. If you really need to assault that badly, then an extra shot is likely to be much more useful due to BS4 than 1 shot and assault at WS3 without melee weapons.


Good points! I didn't think of the lascannons as separate weapons, but that's what you get for not running Vendettas...

Vet squads are best when kept cheap and with a clear purpose. Mixing weapons in the same unit is almost never good.

Elysians in hth assuredly means that your plan didn't work, or that your unit has done it's work, and is getting chewed up by a mean enemy unit, that will get shot to pieces by another of your own units. No need to kit them for cc, at least not for gaming purposes.

Arizonajirt, looking forward to the paint log. Good luck!


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## yshabash (Apr 11, 2010)

*Laughs at puny little elysians while bombarding them with krieg superheavies*

My personaly opinion is that elysians have some interesting rules, but I've never found them to be as competitive as vanilla guard. If your playing to win then you should play regular guard. I do just that and for casual games I have a small krieg army, just for fun once in a while when I want to pop up using a superheavy with more high explosives then a leman russ squad as a transport for a whole platoon.


I've never found any special guard to win against vanilla guard for one special reason, points. Guard are already one of the most competitive armies simply because they have access to a lot of cheap vehicles for very little points and orders that can make a 100 point platoon seem like a space marine battleforce. When you drop krieg and elysians sure krieg get comissars everywhere and giant tanks, and then there's elysians of course with very mobile deploying and full squads equipped with nothing but special weapons but they will still never beat a well made and well played vanilla guard force.


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## arizonajirt (Apr 5, 2011)

Thank you all for your imput again. So from what I get from Vaz and Folketsfeinde, shotguns are no good for vets and I should kit them out with just Laz and special weapons. I will most likely equip all of my Valks with Rocket pods. I am still toying with the list, so everything I get will help alot. 

@Vaz: I was planning on running 3 Tauros vehicles. Im not sure on the Aux Granade launchers yet. Being a Former Marine, I love the M203. Im not sure what LRGS means, but if that is by the people I play with, I have only got in 2 games this year due to everyones (the 5 of us) work schedules. We are all police officers on rotating shifts so we barely have common days off, and being here in Germany, much harder to find people in our area.

@Folketsfeinde: Thanks for the encouragement. I have been looking at the drop troops for quite a while and am finally going to break down and build them. 

@yshabash: I really dont play much, so playing to win or not is not that big to me. When we do play it is for fun only. I already have a seperate imperial guard army with 2 full platoons. The Elysian Guard will be my fully fun army more than a win and kill army.


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## folketsfiende (Nov 21, 2011)

arizonajirt said:


> The Elysian Guard will be my fully fun army more than a win and kill army.


And fun you will have! Deep striking is exciting, and flying your Valkyries and Vendettas across the board to new positions your opponent didn't foresee is :yahoo:. When you get to play with the army, don't forget that both Valkyries and Vendettas get a Scout move, as does the Tauros squadron.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

arizonajirt said:


> Thank you all for your imput again. So from what I get from Vaz and Folketsfeinde, shotguns are no good for vets and I should kit them out with just Laz and special weapons. I will most likely equip all of my Valks with Rocket pods. I am still toying with the list, so everything I get will help alot.


At the end of the day, the list is up to you. I have Shotgun Vets for the models - you spend so much on them, you might as well get them if you want. For rules purposes (and I doubt that many people will complain over the using the lasguns of shotguns - when it comes down to it, it's two different shades of crap when you compare that to the Pulse Rifles, Bolters, and Splinter Rifles out and about - but statistically, the Lasguns perform *slightly* better.



> @Vaz: I was planning on running 3 Tauros vehicles. Im not sure on the Aux Granade launchers yet. Being a Former Marine, I love the M203.


Heh, something to be said about being in the military for Elysian players - currently a LCpl in the Royal Marine BRF/MSG. I saw the AGL, and had a fit. First army list I made had about 40 Vets all with AGL's. It was utter tripe, but absolutely hilarious when I dropped in, and declared that a marine squad was on the end of S6 shooting - looked like my mate had a stroke.



> Im not sure what LRGS means
> 
> 
> > Sorry - Long Range Ground Scanner.


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## arizonajirt (Apr 5, 2011)

Vaz, When I was in OIF1, the best people I worked with was the Royal Marines. They are some of the most crude, uncouth, and worst people to trade with. but when it came down to it, there was very few people I would rather have served with. The Royal Marines and US Marines are the same in the honor and pride we carry. I got out as a Sgt. Some of the best days of my life.


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