# how to beat necrons



## khuffster (Mar 3, 2009)

how do you beat necrons? ive always almost won but eventually i get overrun by a huge amount of necron warriors. i play my brother a lot but his army is almost all necron warriors, but he has 5 swarmas of scarabs 3 destroyers and a necron lord, the ressurection never allows all my fire warriors to kill enough in time.

Moved to 40k tactics - squeek


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## Trandoshanjake (Jul 22, 2008)

Pack as many plasma-toting suits and broadsides into the list as possible. If he hides his res lord in a ball of warriors, unload everything on that squad and try to kill it and the lord in one turn of shooting. They don't get a WBB roll if the whole squad is wiped out IIRC.


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## Master_Caleb (Jan 5, 2009)

Trandoshanjake said:


> Pack as many plasma-toting suits and broadsides into the list as possible. If he hides his res lord in a ball of warriors, unload everything on that squad and try to kill it and the lord in one turn of shooting. They don't get a WBB roll if the whole squad is wiped out IIRC.


they don't get their roll if there's not another model of the same type within 6''. 

Thanks,

~MC


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## Trandoshanjake (Jul 22, 2008)

Master_Caleb said:


> they don't get their roll if there's not another model of the same type within 6''.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ~MC


In that case, start with the destroyers and scarabs, as the former will be quite fragile and the latter don't get the rolls, as they are not "Necrons." After looking at your list in the other thread, I would also recommend getting into CC as fast as possible with your kroot, as cron are absolute garbage in that department.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

btw, there are already lots of threads like this, but how many points are you playing? Is it just the Warriors that cause you problems? How is it that you are losing, it can't just be WBB causing you problems?


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

Aim all/most of your fire power at one unit until it is dead , if there is a lord nearby with a resserection orb aim at him and his unit.

Killing the lord is the biggest priority. Afterwards aim at one squad etc.


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## khuffster (Mar 3, 2009)

thanks for the info


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## VictorLazarus (Mar 5, 2009)

Use high AP weapons and/or tanks - Necrons only have a few (less than 2 I think) anti-tank units and each is very expencive point wise so they prob won't be able to do a thing to tank armies.

MVL.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Heavy Destroyers can penetrate tanks... almost all the other models will glance on a 6 (due to gauss weaponry), so they can slow you down but not really kill you.

It is always better to destroy single units over weakening multiples- even if your oponent brings them back with WBB he'll have fewer units so will be able to shoot at fewer of your models (as an extreme- 1 unit vs 100 will lose no matter how strong, it would take 100 turns for it to wipe out the enemy).
Try to stop WBB- wipe out units that get isolated (more then 6" from similar), use AP3 or better weapons on units that are away from the res orb or just try to wipe out the lord and his unit.
Best way to beat crons is in combat... fire warriors wont work but kroot and battlesuits should. Mob any units that come close (try to get 2-1 or better), win the combat by a couple of kills and try to make the warriors run away... if they do you are almost certain to chase and destroy the unit (which they cannot come back from no matter what).

Tau are the best army out there vs monoliths... try to force necron players to need them for extra WBB rolls then laugh as your S10 weapons shread them.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

My best battle was against necrons
u have to split them up
cos if they have we will be back all the way across the board u can never take them out
kill the destroyers first use ur broadsides and fire wire warriors that should take them out
split your crisis into two halves all with plasma weaponry
harass his sides with the crisis play at 24 inches and ensure u r always in cover 
annoy him with the crisis until he moves a unit to deal with u if he gets out of 6 inches and u kill the squad he is dead
jump into 12 inch rapid fire with ur crisis and rip the unit apart if their is one standing then shoot ur fire warriors at it till it drops whatever u do do not let one of them live or they will all get back up

kill the destroyers first
ignore the scarabs till they get close then take them out with fire warriors
take two hammerheads and pie plate the centre unit and hit them with rail gun fire 
necrons are not impossible u just have to have the right tools and u have to split them up or u will never win


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

VictorLazarus said:


> Use high AP weapons and/or tanks - Necrons only have a few (less than 2 I think) anti-tank units and each is very expencive point wise so they prob won't be able to do a thing to tank armies.


Denying armor save works well as a tactic against any army, not just Necrons. Just be careful about the high AP weapons, they do not deny WBB (even AP 1 or 2). 

As to tanks, every model in the Necron army has the potential to least glance every tank despite AV. Most have the ability to penetrate low AV (as shown below). And as it happens, all tank armies don't actually fare well against Necron armies. 

I have a couple of friends that play IG armored company and who haven't had much luck.



Tim/Steve said:


> Heavy Destroyers can penetrate tanks... almost all the other models will glance on a 6 (due to gauss weaponry), so they can slow you down but not really kill you.


Warriors – shooting glances all AV on 6, CC glances all on 6 if D-field is purchased (not likely)
Flayed Ones – no shooting, but can purchase D-Field (although again, most don’t play with them)
Immortals – shooting penetrates AV 10; may purchase D-field (not likely) to glance in CC on 6.
Pariah – shooting penetrates AV 10; CC may penetrate any AV
Scarabs – no shooting but D-fields are very often purchased so may glance in CC on 6
Wraiths – no shooting but in CC may penetrate AV 11 
Destroyers – shooting penetrates AV 11, CC can only glance AV 10
Tomb Spyder – shooting can penetrate AV 10; CC can penetrate all AV.
Heavy Destroyers – shooting may penetrate any AV; CC only glances AV 10
Monolith – Gauss flux arc may glance any AV, and particle whip may penetrate any AV.
Lord – either shooting penetrates AV 10 *or* CC penetrates any AV
Nightbringer – shooting may penetrate any AV, CC may penetrate any AV
Deceiver – no shooting, but CC may penetrate any AV.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

khuffster said:


> how do you beat necrons?


Uhm...easily?

Hahah I've never had a real struggle to beat them in standard missions. Of course I don't play tau though.

My best advice would be to just kill anything that qualifies as a necron. Force him to phase out.


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## white_kid (Oct 16, 2008)

destroyers and heavy destroyers are a main priority (shouldnt be that hard to kill just a squad of fire warriors shooting or two)

scarabs are a must for u to kill. they will tie u up on turn two (most maps) and will own your fire warriors take em out by massing fire warrior shots when they are in range.

if u have the broadsides use them to kill the monolith (if there is one fielded)

and a tricked out hq with gun drones (for extra wounds) is teribly hard for necrons to kill trust me i know 

other such plasma and low ap weapons are good against necrons. massed fire or crisis suits with low ap guns will destroy the necrons. i play necrons and they are durable but not terribly strong (maybe its just my bad rolling) and will not pose to much of a problem if u prioratise.


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

In order to stop wbb when there is a res. orb nearby you have to not only use high ap weapons but bring down the lord using the orb as well that is why you must target the unit he is with. or at least isolate units from the res. orb and stop them with those low ap weapons. The problem is res. orbs allow wbb under almost all circumstances except when their is no orb within 6". that is how you beat necrons.


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## Mud213 (Nov 20, 2008)

I was going to say, just get them in close combat, but then I saw you played tau...

*snicker*


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

It's really not that hard. With necrons its really just a war of attrition, just focus on the warriors and get into CC(well maybe not for you because, your soldiers are panzies at CC). What works for me is using a battle cannon to bring down as many as I can a turn(and they won't get back up without a res orb). Then I get into close combat with dedicated CC troops, kill a lot and sweeping advance them. That reminds me I forgot to check, do necrons get WBB when you sweep them.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

if he doesnt have a monolith, make sure to focus your firepower at the lord, or isolated squads (like the destroyers first so they die all together) remember that the rules state that the unit must be within 6 inches of the Lord and have another model of the same type within 6 inches of the model being rezzed.

how does he play? does he fill up his squads?

if he does, make sure to call him on any squad getting filled since anything past 20 warriors in a single squad isnt allowed, I have taken out quite a few enemies like that.


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## hells_fury (Apr 17, 2008)

im amazed no body mentioned this unless i have been given false info, weapons that are double their toughness bypasses their WBB rolls, so STR 8 or higher weapons will negate a standred warrior of their WBB


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## ironhammer (Aug 14, 2008)

pound his warriors, if enough die the rest of his army will phase out


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> if he doesnt have a monolith, make sure to focus your firepower at the lord, or isolated squads (like the destroyers first so they die all together) remember that the rules state that the unit must be within 6 inches of the Lord and have another model of the same type within 6 inches of the model being rezzed.
> 
> how does he play? does he fill up his squads?
> 
> if he does, make sure to call him on any squad getting filled since anything past 20 warriors in a single squad isnt allowed, I have taken out quite a few enemies like that.


Ok, just to correct a few errors here, don't want people getting the wrong idea.

1. You do not need to be within 6" of a Lord to be able to roll WBB. You don't even need a Lord in your army.
2. Units of Necrons have a maximum size at the time you 'buy' them, but once the game starts there are no restrictions and the unit size may grow. The Codex says WBBed models join the nearest unit, so that is what they do. Unit sizes can go up and down once the game startes, as happens when ICs join and leave units for example.


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## Ascendant (Dec 11, 2008)

A couple questions I would like to piggyback on here.

How would you suggest dealing with a necron lord with destroyer body that flies around with six scarab swarms? I was thinking hit them in cc, since little else can harm them. 

Under current rules, I believe scarabs to be pretty obnoxious. They can turboboost for a 2+ save, and with majority toughness rules, I think a spyder can crap one out for 3 more wounds at toughness 6...


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Ordnance them. Scarabs are weak to ordnance and from there you can take the Lord down as usual. Yes, they are pretty nasty under current rules.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

In theory ordnance is the answer to how to deal with ANY unit in 40k. They are usually high S and catch lots of units.

A better option, and one that is more readily available to some armies than others, is flamer units. If I remember correctly they ignore cover, unlike ordnance, so the 2+ save is not worth much.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Flamers- ignore the cover save (2+ on scarabs if they turbo boost) and double wounds, 2-3 flamers is a pretty dead unit.
If you do charge into combat ignore the lord and just smack the swarm about... you'll get tuns of kills that the unit/lord will then have to take as no retreat wounds (powerfists will rack up the wounds pretty damn fast as each 'wound' will kill a 3 wound base), ideally you kill all the scarabs and chase the lord to death as he runs away (no WBB for that), or just make him take a ton of saves for no retreat if a couple of scarabs are still alive).


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

I am simply correcting some mistakes I saw but IF a necron lord has a ressurection orb and your unit is wiped out(not by sweeping advance special rules cannot apply) the unit that is attached to the necron lord WILL get wbb and the unit MIGHT get wbb IF there is either a tomb spyder within 12' or another unit of it's type within 6". For example a necron lord with res. orb and say 10 warriors he was attached gets destyoyed if there is AT LEAST another unit of functioning warriors within 6" those 10 warriors get wbb. if there are no other units of warriors within 6" then they do not get wbb, BUT even then the necron lord can still get wbb because he does not even need a unit of his type within 6" to do so and the res. orb makes it impossible to prevent wbb(except by sweeping advance). The only other way to bring back those 10 warriors in that situation is to have a tomb spyder within 12" and another unit of warriors IN THE SAME GAME and those 10 warriors can get wbb.What happens after this example occurs is then those warriors either MUST join the unit within 6" of them or they just stand back up if a tomb spyder allowed them to wbb.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

A couple of things you can do:

Bring Kroot - Being Tau, you also suck in combat, more than necron in some cases. Your Kroot are slightly better and should be able to win. Run em down!

Railguns - Great for taking out his monoliths and then moving on to destroyers/h. destroyers. I prefer taking them on the hammerhead as you get the option of 2 modes of fire which can help to cause mass wounding against warriors.

Suits - pack lots of ap3 or lower (fireknife config works well) as his guys will go down a lot easier.

Devilfish + Firewarriors - Bring at least 2 squads to bear on an enemy unit to also cause mass wounding.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

titan11 said:


> I am simply correcting some mistakes I saw but IF a necron lord has a ressurection orb and you sweeping advance the unit he is attached to the necron lord WILL get wbb and the unit MIGHT get wbb IF there is either a tomb spyder within 12' or another unit of it's type within 6". For example a necron lord with res. orb and say 10 warriors he was attached to loses in close combat and gets sweeped if there is AT LEAST another unit of functioning warriors within 6" those 10 warriors get wbb. if there are no other units of warriors within 6" then they do not get wbb, BUT even then the necron lord can still get wbb because he does not even need a unit of his type within 6" to do so and the res. orb makes it impossible to prevent wbb. The only other way to bring back those 10 warriors in that situation is to have a tomb spyder within 12" and another unit of warriors ON THE TABLE and those 10 warriors can get wbb. In either case though you MUST have the effect of the res. orb as well. What happens after this example occurs is then those warriors either MUST join the unit within 6" of them or they just stand back up if a tomb spyder allowed them to wbb.


I Don't think they do get WBB, the rulebook is quite clear about it.

"...The destroyed unit is removed immediately, UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED no save or OTHER SPECIAL RULE can rescue the unit at this stage; for them the battle is over"

Since WBB does not specify (IE: Make direct mention of taking WBB after a sweeping advance) anything about WBB/sweeping advance, they do not get it. Unit is gone - best way to destroy Necrons.

This is also how it was played at the 'ard boyz tournament here on July 11/09 as my friend who played Necron unfortunately witnessed at the hands of some nob bikers.


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

I am sorry I was just told this by some guy who is also a judge and has been playing for ten years that is why I trusted his judgement. you are probably right and both of us wrong I did not know that special rules could not be used after a sweeping advance until now. Tell me was this changed between 4th and 5th edition? I am simply new to the game and have never played under any edition except 5th. It is possible that this has changed and that guy I was talking about was just not up to speed on the new ed. I just went ahead and edited my above post accordingly so as not to mislead people.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

titan11 said:


> I am sorry I was just told this by some guy who is also a judge and has been playing for ten years that is why I trusted his judgement. you are probably right and both of us wrong I did not know that special rules could not be used after a sweeping advance until now. Tell me was this changed between 4th and 5th edition? I am simply new to the game and have never played under any edition except 5th. It is possible that this has changed and that guy I was talking about was just not up to speed on the new ed. I just went ahead and edited my above post accordingly so as not to mislead people.



I'm not entirely sure if it was a change from 4th to 5th. I only started playing 40k in the last 2 months before 5th came out. I actually started with Necrons as well but when they changed the rules for Gauss, I shelved them pretty quick. Now reading about WBB and sweeping advance, they are way too broken. The need to be fearless, without a doubt to be semi viable in combat.

There are just too many units that can rope a bunch of warriors in combat and run em all down - IE nob bikers, eldar jetbikes, etc etc.

When I play against necrons with my Orks I'll usually just bring 2 fulls squads of 10 nob bikers with a warboss each (for my troop choice) and try to phase them by turn 3. That 3+ cover from turbo boost and being in combat on turn 2 is just too much for Necrons to handle.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Necrons really need universal Stubborn for their army, that'll mean that they'll still lose and might still break but that it'll be seriously unlikely. I would hate to see them get fearless, partially because there is just far far too much out there that is fearless already and partially because fearless is a stupid and broken rule...

Sweeping advance is indeed the most stupid aspect to 'crons, if you hit a unit of 20 its far better to kill 10 then chase down the rest with a sweeping advance then to just kill all 20 straight off.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

yeah. I agree - stubborn would also be nice fluffwise.


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

actually giving them stubborn instead of fearless would make them harder to kill in cc because IF you lose a cc and have fearless you have to make armor rolls equal to the amount of unsaved wounds you lost by making your people more likely to die as opposed to just rolling ld once and PROBABLY get off scott free.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Right now necrons are barely viable as an army to play and everyone I know has abandoned the army at least until the next version of their codex arrives. That's a bit unfortunate because their fluff is quite interesting.

However, please limit this thread to tactics. There's a place for rules queries and a place for pointless wishlisting (I guess, though I haven't looked for it). This is the place for tactics.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Someguy said:


> Right now necrons are barely viable as an army to play and everyone I know has abandoned the army at least until the next version of their codex arrives. That's a bit unfortunate because their fluff is quite interesting.
> 
> However, please limit this thread to tactics. There's a place for rules queries and a place for pointless wishlisting (I guess, though I haven't looked for it). This is the place for tactics.


When you say barely viable do you mean they are too strong and always win?


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Not in my experience. I did once lose a game against necrons, using Tau in 3rd edition. Since then a formula of killing the destroyers and then phasing out the warriors has worked every time.

To be honest though, I haven't even seen a necron player in 5th edition. They got nerfed so hard in so many ways it leaves them as a shell of what they once were. No rending kills on tanks, savage LD modifiers in cc and only warriors able to take objectives have hurt them worse than any other army. You can even hit monoliths in cc now, when you used to always need a 6 (which was silly, what with it being a building-sized, slowly moving lump of metal).

If you do make them work at the moment, congratulations. I'd love to know how.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Though we only have one necron player over here at the local GW, and he lacks the brains to execute a proper battleplan, so beating him is childsplay, Necrons have suffered a lot in 5th edition, in 4th, I had to completely ignore the monoliths because I simply couldn't hurt them with my sisters, now, I have penitents that bust it up ( though I never use em )

Beating them is pretty easy, since their army has such a basic makeup, you can easily determine and eliminate threats on the battlefield and force a phaseout.


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

Man we have one 'cron player and he is nigh unto unstopable. I don't know if he's cheating somehow or if maybe there's a rule we missed that makes them killable. at any rate there is no viable way for Marines (let alone Orks) to drop a monlith and the damned thing is killing off 5-10 of my men every turn. If I try mechanized I loose all of my vehicles on turn one due to that damnable gause weaponry rule. The few warriors that do fall to my massed fireing just stand back up on the next turn so what's the point? How can anyone say necrons are underpowered / nerfed? Who cares if Warriors are the only unit that can capture points? They can easily drop a unit of marines twice their size but can be a larger sized unit than marines anyway. Try to drop them in CC and they will kick your ass due to more attacks just due to numbers. Seriously. I don't understand why EVERYONE doesn't play crons. Well other than that I had already bought an army long before I found out how OP necrons are.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

The gauss rule really shouldn't be killing your vehicles if you play marines. It only gets glancing hits, and only on a 6. Glancing hits can't destroy vehicles unless they are open topped (which your vehicles are not) or the firing weapon is AP1 (which gauss weapons are not). Even then, warriors generally don't do much shooting on turn 1 if you are above 24" away.

If you are getting outnumbered in cc by enemies that are slower and more expensive than you, something is wrong.

Marines have plenty of ways to kill monoliths anyway. You can have 2 vindicators for every monolith he brings. You can have dreads batter it in cc and you can just lascannon it. You can also ignore it, send a land raider full of terminators into his army and smash them into little pieces.


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

Las cannon takes an average of 29 shots to destroy a monolith and melta is worthless against it. dread will be destroyed by the monolith coupled with warriors before it ever hits cc. even if it makes it there it's only a 1:3 chance of pen hitting and the monolith ignores all of the options for glancing hits. Necrons are not slower than me unless I missed something, ont he contrary they are faster due to being able to teleport around with the monoliths and then assault out of them. If he is ever concerned with the way a CC is going the mono flies over and teleports them out to shoot my marines down once again. Remember there can be 20 warriors to a group but only 10 marines, and adding the rhino to transport the marines makes them more expensive than necros by far. as for how he destroys my vehicles so quickly, 20 warriors fire, average of 3-4 glances, one get two imobilized results and the vehicle is destroyed. done and done. As for the vindis, well I can only bring a total of three of them. He has 2-3 monos depending on game size. Tops it off with a c-tan and CC is no longer a viable option.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I can beat any race apart from Orks (played by veterans), for which the Necrons have no viable counter.

VS MEq I am 95% wins in 5th ed. since you can't consolidate through the whole army in CC anymore and the game has a limited number of turns (have only lost 1 game to SM and none to CSM), vs TEq I'm generally 80+% sure of a win, vs GEq... Poor basterds don't have a hope.

Generally people ignore the missions and go for Phase Out, which they have almost no hope of doing, and so lose on objectives. In Kill Point games they try the same but Necrons are hard to kill, and a Monolith is worth as many points as 10 Warriors so the Necrons are generally not worth many kill points. For the same points SMs generally give double the kill points because the players love combat squads and ICs and dedicated transports.

Warrior reserves are also now able to enter play from the table edge rather than through the Monolith, which has many benefits. I also make good use of the ability to redeploy my whole army after my oponent has placed his infiltrators thanks to the Deceiver's special abilities. I almost never use a RezOrb because I find they are not needed for 90% of ranged attacks (S8+ is the only threat to WBB from shooting), and I don't let my units get assaulted unless I want to be.
I use at least 3 units of troops, but keep them close to minimum size, so that there is a nice PO buffer and a good objective grabbing chance.

Generally 5th ed. has helped Necrons, but CC is still death for the unit getting attacked (apart from the C'tan or Destroyer Lords). The low _ makes their LD10 meaningless._


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Karl.. don't forget a rhino also has a stormbolter.. 2 immobilised means immobilised and weapon destroyed, he needs at least 3 glancing hits that roll a 5 or 6 to wreck your rhino's.
As for the best way as SMs to take out a monolith, get a dreadnought with a CC weapon, put it in a drop pod, and drop it next to the monolith. Assault and stomp it with a bunch of attacks at S10. That should teach it some manners easy.
Unless he moved, you auto hit, even if he did, you hit on 4s, he can't move any faster than that.
Get 2 of those, and you'll basicly have nullified his monoliths, for much less points.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

I just don't understand how you can lose to Necrons - there's the odd player who can make them work but for the most part, they're pretty crippled.

Seriously, get them in combat with something halfway decent. I don't mean throw a 5 man tac squad or 10 orks into combat and hope to win. Every army has some sort of unit that can destroy in combat. For me, I throw a squad of nob bikers into a few of their units and watch them break. For SM, try vanguard with power weapons or assault terminators. They really have nothing to stop you. Ignore the monolith, it's damage contribution is minor at best and you should be destroying units in a turn of combat so that the portal is useless. If he fires the ordinance, he can't fire the flux arc thingy. Knock out his destroyers early game and go for the phase. Easily done by turn 3-4.


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

Assaulting a 'lith really does not work well for 2 reasons one is the fact that there are very few units that can assault the same turn they come in from deepstrike(some have a special rule that let's them do that) and the ones that can usually cannot even damage the 'lith so I would just shoot you up. Also I could shoot AND assault YOU with some units myself and tie you up without you ever bothering the 'lith. It is usually easier to kill a 'lith with shooting then assaulting because if the 'lith is assaulted with something that can actually hurt it than the player is doing something wrong.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Yup, shooting is the way to go: even my nids are 50-50 between shooting and combat 'lith kills... sure I dont tool my fex up with S10 and 2+ saves against crons (cos Im nice.. they still have no chance but no point rubbing more salt in the wounds) but even then I think a few zoanthrope pot shots would be as good as the fex
admitedly though Im not above running a fex at a monolith hoping the cron player will sacrifice some warriors to let the 'lith escape... just makes phase out happen that much sooner.


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

I would just turn your fex into target practice with my warriors and use wraiths with destoyer lord to tie up others in cc. You might think you could easily win in those circumstances but using a bunch of tomb spyders with scarabs helping out would actually work a lot better than most people would give them credit for. 9 wraiths 1 destoyer lord with warsythe and 6 tomb spyders can put a lot more hurt on people than you would care to believe. Back that up with a monolith and 40 necron warriors(and another lord with destoyer body and df) then you have all the shooting you will ever need.(yes this is assuming that there is a 2000-point game going on)


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> Karl.. don't forget a rhino also has a stormbolter.. 2 immobilised means immobilised and weapon destroyed, he needs at least 3 glancing hits that roll a 5 or 6 to wreck your rhino's.
> As for the best way as SMs to take out a monolith, get a dreadnought with a CC weapon, put it in a drop pod, and drop it next to the monolith. Assault and stomp it with a bunch of attacks at S10. That should teach it some manners easy.
> Unless he moved, you auto hit, even if he did, you hit on 4s, he can't move any faster than that.
> Get 2 of those, and you'll basicly have nullified his monoliths, for much less points.


This is when Pariahs come in handy. THis is exactly what they are designed to do- Guard stuff. You drop your Naut near my Lith and you're going to be eating warscythes for breakfast- One shooting phase, then one assault phase, and that Naut is history. I'll pie plate it if I can, then I'll shoot it with Pariahs, then I'll assault it with them. Bye bye, Dreadnought.


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

That is why shooting is better than assaulting the 'lith I am NOT GOING to stop you from shooting it because if you can see a building literally coming at you then all you have to do is be able to hit the broadside of that barn and hope you have something big enough to bring it down. the best way to bring down a 'lith is use a str10 ap1 ordinance weapon, you still get to roll 2D6 and add ONE die to the strength of the weapon and then add 1 to the vehicle damage roll due to ap1. living metal does NOT negate the extra die from ordinance weapons you just can never add BOTH to the strength.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Straight out of the Living Metal rule: "Ordnance weapons roll 2d6 for armor penetration and select the highest score".


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Nids are easy for Necrons to beat, just shoot them and they fall over dead. Destroyers totally own all Nids, and usually spam kill all synapse creatures by turn 3. C'tan will usually kill a Fex in 1 turn, even with the random 2+ save because of the save ignoring attacks.
Not met a Nid list that could beat me yet.

Ok, the biz: you need to make sure you have a shooty army that will hit and wound at AP3. Then you need to kill whole units at a time. Then you need S10 weapons to kill Monoliths because you should NEVER ignore them, especially if you are trying to PO the Necrons becuas the Monoliths give WBB re-rolls. Then you need snipers to kill the C'tan. A unit of assault troops that can DS and attack in the same turn are also useful.
If you have all those things you stand a chance of winning vs Necrons.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

titan11 said:


> I would just turn your fex into target practice with my warriors and use wraiths with destoyer lord to tie up others in cc. You might think you could easily win in those circumstances but using a bunch of tomb spyders with scarabs helping out would actually work a lot better than most people would give them credit for. 9 wraiths 1 destoyer lord with warsythe and 6 tomb spyders can put a lot more hurt on people than you would care to believe. Back that up with a monolith and 40 necron warriors(and another lord with destoyer body and df) then you have all the shooting you will ever need.(yes this is assuming that there is a 2000-point game going on)


FEX? Fexes more like... I run 4 in 1500pts. Along with 2 Hive Tyrants- 25 T6 wounds for 786pts (and sometimes I add in 3 tyrant guard if my synapse needs bolstering), crons just cant deal with that... and Im not even upgrading them to be nasty (3 elite fex with no upgrades other then weapons) or taking the 8 MCs thats possible.

Lets Mathammer a heavy support fex to death (mine is 179pts and has 2+ save and 5W... so the equivalent price of under 10 warriors): 
5W * 2+save = wounded 30 times
S4 guns * T6 = 180 shots
BS4 = 270 shots
Rapid Fire = 135 warriors = 2430pts
... or to put it another way, if you fired twice the fex's points cost worth of warriors at it, in rapid fire range for every turn of a 7 turn game you should just about kill it.

There are only 6 things that worry MCs in the Necron codex and none of them work on a battle scale:
Pariahs dont have enough attack or strength (wounding on 5+ or 6+) and you can only afford 3 for the price of most of my MCs and only 5 for the most expensive
Lords again are too weak and dont have enough attacks and will cost MORE then most of my MCs if they have any equipment.
Heavy Destroyers cost way too much and are way too easy to kill (hence why almost no-one ever uses them)- either my weapons wound them on a 2+ or re-roll to wound anyway.
The monolith pie plate of doom is nasty and ignores my armour save but only if you hit the MC with the centre of the blast and then it only takes 1 wound.
Tomb Spiders are potentially nasty but in practice just arent durable enough.

finally:
C'Tan would cause me some trouble... except it drops you down to 1 res orb and is the same points as 2-3 normal MCs. Ive seen many cron players take them as a MC counter but they only help against 1-2, not the possible 8 that nids can field at 1500pts.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

darklove said:


> Nids are easy for Necrons to beat, just shoot them and they fall over dead. Destroyers totally own all Nids, and usually spam kill all synapse creatures by turn 3. C'tan will usually kill a Fex in 1 turn, even with the random 2+ save because of the save ignoring attacks.
> Not met a Nid list that could beat me yet.
> 
> Ok, the biz: you need to make sure you have a shooty army that will hit and wound at AP3. Then you need to kill whole units at a time. Then you need S10 weapons to kill Monoliths because you should NEVER ignore them, especially if you are trying to PO the Necrons becuas the Monoliths give WBB re-rolls. Then you need snipers to kill the C'tan. A unit of assault troops that can DS and attack in the same turn are also useful.
> If you have all those things you stand a chance of winning vs Necrons.


A boomfex is 113pts and fire a S8 large blast pinning weapon (so instant death on all warriors/imortals).
Zoanthropes fire S5 AP3 blasts.
- 6 boomfex and 3 zoanthropes are under 1000pts and could phase out a 2k cron army by themselves... the other half of the nid army could just watch (not that Ive ever been that mean).

Most Ive ever lost against 'crons is 1 MC, a couple of warriors/zoanthropes and a handful of gaunts and I have never run anything close to a nasty list against them (I use biovores... thats how nice I am ).
Never had a cron list avoid phase out into turn 4 before- even a C'tan couldnt have reached me and even if I ignored him could he even begin to have won a fraction of his points cost back in that time (and if he's hiding from my shooting- and nids have a lot of S5+ shooting- then he wont be any threat anyway).


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

You've forgotten the important Gauss rule. Gauss rule means a shot automatically hits if it rolls a 6, regardless of T/WS, as long as the shot comes form a Gauss weapon. So lets say thirty warriors throw out sixty shots. Ten of them hit automatically, regardless of T/WS. Of those, one of six inflicts a wound. So it would take 3-4 turns to kill it, providing _nothing else_ shoots at it, like giant Monolith pie plates, Heavy Destroyers, Immortals- Oh, and your prize fex is steak if Pariahs get anywhere near it. Granted this is a limited threat since nobody uses them, but Pariahs make hamburger out of fexes with laughable ease (They turn pretty much ANYTHING into hamburger with laughable ease. Shame they're so damn slow). Actually, a Monolith pie plate plus three heavy destroyers will take, on average, half its wounds in one round of firing. Finish it off with Destroyers, and take the last wound with Immortals if necessary. Necrons, generally laughing off Ld tests when not engaged in a melee, should be able to target the fex regardless of whats between the two. Thats 180 points of hard-hitting Fex dead without inflicting a single casualty. Since you're running four, if I focus my Warriors and any CC support I have only on your rushing units, within four turns I'll have killed all of your fexes. Now, I dont know how you've got your fexes kitted out weapons-wise.

With nothing but heavy support fexes, this would be the only time I'd wager it would be safe to DS a monolith on top of Nids. I'm going to lose it anyway with two Hive Tyrants, might as well take double the Monolith's point value in the process. Throwing D6 shots into your units and then particle whipping a fex, then finishing it off with HDs and Ds, plus whatever GFA destroys, it'll likely pay for itself on the turn it enters, plus it'll survive until you manage to get something S9+ over to it, which on average means it will take double its value in points before going down- Meanwhile, you're focusing on destroying or escaping from the stupid thing, while I'm having a field day strafing you with Destroyers and pouring lots and lots of shots into your army. By the time you get it killed, a lot of units will be at partial strength, you have a couple dead fexes from combinations of pie plates and HD/D fire, more if you put them close together, and the wreckage of the Monolith will sit there in the middle of your weakened army mocking you the entire game. Even with a Tyrant hammering it, it'll usually take 3-4 turns for you to get it killed, since more than likely you'll roll "weapon destroyed" results, which have nearly no effect on a Monolith, or an Immobilized result, which is worthless since I wasn't going to move it anyway. Your remaining two fexes (maybe only one) will have lost a wound or two, and it'll fall over dead after some HD shots and poured fire from Immortals. That leaves your Tyrants, which can be brought down in a similar fashion. Then you have like four genestealers or something left, which I slaughter with my Warriors.

So, recap: Keep the HD's out of fire thats too dangerous and they'll pay for themselves against fexes. My favorite tactic against nids is Triplith, where I DS three Liths right on top of your Fexes, and pie plate as many as I can. Three liths pour 3D6 shots into the area in the center area between them, which I usually take advantage of by surrounding something valuable and just hammering it with 3-18 shots each turn (Remember Gauss rule!) and then plating it with all three. WHatever is there is usually dead after that turn, be it a superfex, a Tyrant, or whatnot. The rest get to suck down Destroyer shots as the Monoliths mercilessly rip the entire army to bits. They'll bring down one only to get plated by the other two and die a green fizzy death. I've never seen a Nid player take down more than a single Lith from a Triplith, and thats with four super fexes and two Tyrants. I usually double the enemy's kill points and he never even gets me close to PO because he keeps trying to spam S7- hits on it with 0 effect. Meanwhile the GFA rips up the surrounding armies and I pie plate anything that looks important.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

And so, the inevitable rules discussion. Why do so many people, and so many necron players, forgo the usual practice of reading the rules for their army? Instead we have a bizarre sort of chinese whispers system where a redshirt tells somebody one thing, then he tells his friend something slightly different, then the friend posts something on the intranet, complete with totally wrong math hammer.

The gauss rule of wounding (not hitting) on a 6 is almost completely irrelevant. Strength 4 weapons wound anything up to T7 on a 6 anyway. Anything strength 5 and above can wound T8 stuff even without the gauss rule. It doesn't affect armour saves. Against nids, a warrior's gauss gun is just a bolter.

Looking at the actual maths of this situation, 10 warriors at 24" get about 1 wound a turn, which the carnifex has a 3+ save against. It takes them 12 turns to drop a fex, assuming it is nice enough to stand still letting them shoot it. Obviously, the fex is quite a lot cheaper than the warriors..


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

That's what heavy Destroyers, Destroyers and Immortals are for ... or maybe not.... I have not so much experience that I would dare to say....


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Guy, I was more pointing out the gauss rule for GFA which is only S3, I believe.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Iron Angel said:


> Guy, I was more pointing out the gauss rule for GFA which is only S3, I believe.


The Gauss Flux Arc is Str5 actually

There's no Gauss weapon who's strength is below 4, _all_ of the others are above 4


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

The worst gun in the Necron codex is S4 AP5, and only 1 unit has that, everything else in the codex has better. Lots of S5 AP4 units, some S5 AP3, an S6 AP4 and a few S9 AP2, and an S9 AP1/2 - all in all they are not bad guns.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Iron Angel said:


> Guy, I was more pointing out the gauss rule for GFA which is only S3, I believe.


I'm sorry but seriously, have you read either the necron codex or the core rulebook, or are you just here to illustrate the point of my last post?

Flux arc is strength 5, not 3. However, even if it was strength 3 it would still wound a t6 carnifex on a 6 without needing the gauss rule.£

Oh and also, you can't fire the flux arc and the ordnance gun at the same time. Deep striking into a nid army is a poor option.

In order to discuss tactics you need to understand the rules and likely events in game. Your previous example of 30 warriors rapid-firing at one carnifex is not going to happen in a game. Plus you have 540 points of necrons vs 113 points of carnifex. When the other 4 carnifexes (that the nid player can almost afford for those points) show up, the problems start.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

EDIT- partially ninja'd but I'll not delete anything.. just bow to Someguy's faster typing/thought process

Gauss wounding on a 6 is totally irrelevent to nids... you'll wound on 5's or 6's anyway.

When you DS your monolith it counts as moving at cruising speed so cannot fire any weapons (there is debate over whether or not it can fire the particle whip when DS, I normally allow it). It can NEVER fire both the particle whip and the flux arc on the same turn since the particle whip is ordinance (and if you fire ordinance you cannot fire any other weapon).

@Iron Angel - Pariahs eat through T4 models, but arent strong enough to deal with T6/7 MCs (even a full unit shouldnt kill the modt basic fexs). Monoliths arent going to worry a nidzilla (if a flux arc goes off in range of 6 cheap fexs you should still only do 1.5 wounds.. leaving 22.5 wounds left to take). Heavy Destroyers arent the worst idea in the world but all of them would need to survive and fire at the nids for 4+ turns to get their own points back... if I let them survive that long I deserve to get beat.

As for monoliths- the living metal rule means that MCs dont role 2D6 armour penetrations... hive tyrants cannot hurt monoliths in combat (without a warp blast/venom cannon the tyrant cannot hurt the monolith at all... and venom cannnons all almost totally ignorable). The best way to kill the monolith is to DS it next to lots of fexs... if you dont DS it it'll probably never get killed: you'll phase out LONG before fex are able to charge it (or choose to- normally warriors are close and make a nice target for MCs).


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

It's been a while since I've played, admittedly. I'm more into painting than playing so the rules are getting jumbled. I'll have another go-through of the Codex and BRB. You guys just showed me how long its really been...


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

I guess the best way to neutralize necrons is to kill them in melee with power weapons or equivalent weapons AND cause as much instant death as possible after killing the lord with res. orb (if applicable) when you are shooting them. that will eventually result in phase out.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

Yeah.... I had to feel it:
CC and phaseout is the saves way cause every unit in CC with a bunch of warriors can not be shot at and though warriors are long lasting ... at some point the last one will fall (my one squad of 10 held out 3 rounds till some Space Wolves brought the last down - the enemy had to pull in another of his squads ^^ )
Phaseout .... yeah
But what do you do against a destroyer wing... try to capture some Destroyers in CC .... hope you can do it ^^


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Ive always found that a drop pod full of plasma weaponry is a great counter to a wing of destroyers (6-8 plasma shots and 14 bolter shots) normally kill destroyers pretty well.
Ofc if you cant get that much firepower into a pod I have to pity you 
Other then that I would just say that all those light-medium anti-tank weapons on the field should be targetting the destroyers (eg heavy bolters, missile launchers.. mebbe even lascannon equivalents) since they are either totally or mostly ineffective against any monoliths.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

I've had great success with punching the Necron player in the face then running away.


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

Actually SeBi it is easy to kill necrons because if you get a sweeping advance on them they cannot make any WBB rolls because no special rules can save them from that according to the 5th edition rulebook.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

titan11 said:


> Actually SeBi it is easy to kill necrons because if you get a sweeping advance on them they cannot make any WBB rolls because no special rules can save them from that according to the 5th edition rulebook.


interesting ... you're right.... but all "dead" Crons make their IBB next round .... as they are not anymore part of the destroyed unit and the LD10 of all Crons makes it hard to cut the Squad down enough to lower the LD so far that they run :grin:

and if a Cron lets get his Squad be captured into CC he deserves to lose  (I speak out of my own experience!)


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

If you get a Warrior squad jumped in CC, you should pull them out with a Monolith and shoot your attackers. Reroll WBB, get a shooting phase, charge them. They don't get the charge bonus, you do, and if they keep on living after that, repeat it. Warp out, shoot, charge. Everything should be dead by then.

As for how to kill Necrons: Not sure if I've said this before but if theres a Res Orb nearby you can't. If theres a monolith nearby, not only can you not do it, you'll _lose_. Kill both of those as fast as you can if you want to kill Necrons.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

nice advices!

I will try the Monolith next game k:


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Use of the monolith means you have to survive the first round of combat... which is the round you are most likely to lose on (ie attackers have their charge bonuses). Get a good unit into the warriors and they'll lose (as Sebi said- any cron player that lets his unit sbe caught in CC has lost).

The 1 thing to avoid against crons is to get into a close range slug match between crappy weapons: a line of marines or guard facing a line of crons and just exchanging RF fire is going to lose everytime unless there is a lot of plasma in there.

I always try to divide and conquer crons- the goal is to disallow WBB at all- any squad thats the only one of its type is targetted early, any unit that gets cut off (normally by forcing the cron player to portal the unit next in line to the monolith) gets anhiliated - vindicator, plasam cannon and lots of assault cannons/bolter fire manages to kill 10-20 crons pretty damn fast.
- I normally ignore normal tactics and just pick apart the enemy and force them to phase out... they'll be a much better army late on 2010 with a new dex when they lose their crippling vulnerabilities.


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## Annabelle (Nov 24, 2008)

Best way to beat necrons is to play 1k sons =) AP3 bolters mow them down.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

Annabelle said:


> Best way to beat necrons is to play 1k sons =) AP3 bolters mow them down.


yeah but that is a very specific case indeed! as Ork my best weapon in this regards is the Rokkit launcher ...

so I say:
it depends in the army you play:
are you strong in CC ---> get them into CC and you win
are you good at shooting and denying armor saves --> mow em down (as you said :grin

in general:
go for phaseout


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## titan11 (Jul 24, 2009)

I do not think most players are aware of this but not getting a armor save prevents wbb UNLESS it's in cc. "we'll be back" reads as follows:necrons that are hit by weapons that deny their armor saves IN CLOSE COMBAT cannot make "we'll be back" rolls. The special rules specifically says that. So if you are pounding the crap out of me with ap3 or better weapons they can still make wbb as long as instant death does not get involved. USUALLY instant death DOES get involved but not always when you are talking about a weapon with ap3.For example those thousand sons bolters will not prevent wbb nor will plasma weapons because they are always str7 ap2 and that will not cause instant death to a necron with toughness 4. You must pie plate them with str8 or higher weapons if you want to cause them instant death AND prevent WBB Or deny their armor saves somehow in CC.


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