# Are summoned Daemons worth it?



## Reverend Hobo (Dec 25, 2009)

Recently I've heard a few people saying that they like to use summoned lesser daemons in their army, but I haven't really heard any specific reasons why they're good, so I figured I'd ask you guys.

Are they worth it? Or would their points be better spent elsewhere?

What are their strengths?
Their Weaknesses?


----------



## randys_s13 (Dec 29, 2009)

Well they are cheapish invulnerable safe 2 attacks and they can assault the same turn they are summoned. So now you can basicly have 2 units attacking, when the other guy was only worried about one, or if a unit is diembarking, the deamons can distact long enough for them to assault.


----------



## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

Reasonably priced deep-striking objective grabbers with an invuln save and not complete rubbish in an assault, not a must-take unit, but usually worthwhile.


----------



## Broken Sword (Jan 5, 2009)

Bringing Lesser Daemons to the Fight: The Lesser Daemons are a unit that many people have mixed feelings about. I think they are pretty useful, but your army has to be built to accomidate their use. First and foremost, you will need icons in your army. This can be done cheaply with cult troops for 5 points a model or can be done with regular CSM with the Icon of Chaos Glory (Which they should have anyway).
.
This is important because if there are no icons on the board when they become available, the unit is destroyed: That's right, they have to DS within 6" of an icon, so having a few icons in your army is a must(depending on how many units of LDs you are taking and what you want to do with them).
.
What do my Daemons Do For Me? Your Lesser Daemons can work in both offensive and defensive set-ups. In the offense, LDs work very well as you can roll forward with your rhinos and hopefully get them in when you want them and assault the enemy from their deep strike (yes they can, read page 61!) They will have 3 attacks on the charge and can deepstrike up to 6" from the vehicle. But what if my vehicle gets blown up? Still good, as now they can hopefully turn up to deep strike and assault approaching enemy so you can get your charge in from your troop unit (works well with armies of Rhino mounted Berzerkers!). Beware, the enemy can mow down LDs most of the time, but if you use tandem tactics like this, then they will have to choose between killing your squad or the daemons (the easy kill or the tough guys) Either way, they are going to get beat down. This also works well with Plague Marine Squads and adds to their survivability very well.
.
In the defense, daemons work pretty well to hold onto objectives while your troops (who are better in a fist fight, move on to take care of would-be attackers and to consolidate onto enemy held objectives. This can be a very annoying tactic to play against as you have to get his troops off those objectives, but his real troops are moving around the board attacking you and keeping you from holding them. The fact that a player who employs this with multiple units of daemons also makes more targets, thus making it harder to clean all the objective in a 5 turn game. It also works in tak and hold missions because the enemy can assault in and even beat a squad of daemons, only to get charge by another squad ... and maybe he will still win, but then he gets attacked by another squad of daemons, see where this is going?
.
The key thing to remember in each situation is that your Lesser Daemons are not very tough and can get killed if not employed correctly. In kill point missions, you need to use mutual support and be careful to make the best use of them with the offensive tactics discussed earlier.


----------



## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

If we were discussing Greater Daemons i would gladly have alot to say. lol
but Lesser demons... hmmm... they require thought and careful planning to be used effectively while still being worth there point cost. 

Pros: Lots of attacks, 3 points cheaper then space marines while having there stats but lacking proper armour saves, but invul is better then nothing. They are fearless (i think) and are troop choices.

Cons: Can get easily killed! a squad of 10 being killed by rapid firing marines or tau or eldar is 130 pts down the toilet! must be deep striked with a banner or icon on the board when they are available from reserves. (also bad if you have unlucky reserve rolls) there points can easily be put into buying more important and more usefull stuff such as (9 CSM cost only 5 more points then 10 lesser daemons and way more useful with there bolters and better armour save.)

Summary: they can be usefull against horde armies? heavily armoured foes like Necron, Space marines, other CSM, and such would be highly frowned upon to use them.
but then again thats just one person's opinion. lol


----------



## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I found that they are a nice meatshield. :grin:

But seriously, I'm planning to use them with Bikers, who can quickly get close the first turn and call is some support. Then comes the praying part (which is perfectly fine, since I'm a Word Bearer ): can your Bikers survive long enough to call in your men? And its not just LDs: Greater Daemons (more on that guy later), Obliterators and Terminators! Just imagine: an innocent little CSM army rolls forward, then suddenly another army deep strikes right in your face! Though all of this is pure theory, it needs a lot of testing to see if it works properly.

About Greater Daemons (since DreMister brought it up ), they're badass. Think of him like this: he hits like a Khornate Daemon Prince (a bit better in fact, with WS8), moves like a Carnifex (which is okay I think) and is resilient like a Tzeentchian and Nurglite Daemon Prince *combined*. To me hes like a sluggish nuke: all you need is to get him close enough to the enemy and he'll tear apart everything short of a Monolith. Like I said, awesome.


----------



## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

hehe, Khorothis and only 100 pts!! such a steal of a deal!


----------



## Reverend Hobo (Dec 25, 2009)

Thanks guys. I think I'll include some Daemons in my army now.


----------



## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

XxDreMisterxX said:


> hehe, Khorothis and only 100 pts!! such a steal of a deal!


130 points minimum - don't forget the cost of the champion he comes out of....

Some folks like to pretend that a chosen squad w/ champion makes a cheaper GD but don't forget: 5X15+15 = 90 & 5x18+10=100...


----------



## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

clever handle said:


> Some folks like to pretend that a chosen squad w/ champion makes a cheaper GD but don't forget: 5X15+15 = 90 & 5x18+10=100...


Chosen are still the best, because they can Outflank or infiltrate before becoming demonified. Otherwise, a cheap terminator champion is very handy, as you're not losing anyone important to the squad, as you are if you lose your normal champ in a CSM squad. Generally though, you don't just get a squad to be your GD summoning unit, you get a few squads that you use otherwise, and give them a cheap champion.

As for summoned demons, I think they're cool. They have a few good uses against different enemies, but I think their best two are probably as a blocker/meatshield, as Khorothis mentioned, as they're a cheap fearless unit with an invulnerable save, or as an assault support unit.

Blockers: A unit of 8 should just hold for 2 rounds against 5 TH/SS termies, so they'll hold them for the enemy turn, and then you can shoot/assault them again the next turn. They can hold out a few turns against a regular or ironhide dreadnought, assuming support doesn't come for them. Buying that extra time can be handy, if some big bad unit is tearing into your lines, and you need to protect some important squad or vehicle.

Assualt Support: Now, I don't mean just throwing your demons into an assaut along side you're regular guys - that can be bad sometimes, as demons can be targeted and (with their weaker save) be a liability. Anyway, what I mean here is with DS/infiltrating/bikers units, you get up there fast, and you use your demons against the soft targets behind, while your other units take on other targets. Usually you're close up units will get embroiled in combat, but demons can still be summoned from them and go to take out other nearby units. If they take out an IG heavy weapons squad or a dev combat squad, they've been of great value.

Now, the thing is that they are only situationally useful, and if they turn up at the wrong time, or get into combat with the wrong enemy then they just die, wasting points and possibly giving up kill points. That's why they're not popular in tourney armies, where everyone wants consistency.

Anyway, that's my bit on the demons, hope it helps!


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Just my opinion, but please, _please_ avoid taking the Greater Daemon. He's the biggest piece of crap in the Codex, which is really saying something.

Lesser Daemons can be good objective holders as they're the cheapest Troops choice available to Chaos Marine armies. Other than that, they can be of assistance in armies themed toward the Thousand Sons since they're pretty good at close combat and can arrive exactly where they're needed.


----------



## Doombreed (Dec 20, 2009)

Not to get off track from the original question, if the GDemon actually counted toward the HQ slot or was 0-2 then I would definetly put it in my army. 

Back to the question at hand: in my experience I love them but its assaulting after they DStrike is what's key. Not knowing where a group of 10+ basic marine stat line full force at any unit within 12' is pretty scary even for tanks. In one game I ripped the guns off of a Pred and a Vindi in two turns because I plopped down 12 LDemons and charged my buddies gun line and not moving his vehicles. 

It ultimately depends on how you use them, or even if you need them. In my current list I have a lot of troops so I don't need them and oped to use Chaos Termis in stead for a little more punch. My two cents, spend them wisely it's all I got.


----------



## crzy eyes (Dec 31, 2009)

i play khorne and in my opinion they are the perfect tool for taking out the enemies armourd troops, they can easily take on a 10 man marine sqaud and wreck some real damage. and they are reasonably cheap


----------



## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

In my opinion I feel that there are far better choices in the chaos codex which offer alot more flexibility than lesser daemons. Compared to everyting else they die easily and lack a cutting edge in close combat. They maybe fearless, but lose a combat annd you lose by that number of wounds and resulting armour saves.

The Greater deamon is an excellent choice although you need to have three champions, ideally one scarifical one but with a couple of fall backs, to guarantee it arriving on the board. The gamble is when it arrives but as long as the transporting unit is in a rhino it gives you extra distance when it arrives and the added advantage of getting it where you need it. If things go awry in the game then popping out of a tooled up champion is not the end of the world considering what the daemon can do.

All the points so far about lesser daemons are fair enough but I would rather spend the points elsewhere as all the other troops, despite being a bit more expensive they are far more useful.


----------



## Ishamael (Aug 26, 2008)

Ah, a chance to shamelessly plug these little buggers! I use a squad of 8 Bloodletters as my only squad of Lesser Daemons, and they mainly do three things: Go to ground on an objective in cover while spread out 3" away from it, counter assault, and tarpit. I've tied terminators and dreadnoughts up for multiple turns when they would have walked in and Rickrolled my Berzerkers, allowing them to get away at something else.

I will say being forced to have an icon on the field sucks, BUT it's fantastic for putting out a lone Rhino for a nice morsel for your opponent to go after, then when reserves come in you can mess his battle plans up.

Edit: It's an atrocious idea, but I had the thought earlier to use a Greater Daemon in my Tzeentch army, but that would require sac'ing an Aspiring Sorcerer, although if they're already in CC they're shafted without the Sorcerer having Warptime.


----------



## Malgron (Jan 6, 2010)

I haven't played in a while but have been reading and scheming quite a bit.

I would say that the lesser daemons in the right situations can be extremely useful.

On page 45 of the rullebook is has a nice picture of being trapped and falling back. If you know you are going to crush an enemy in assault, why not deepstrike the daemons just behind your foe to prevent a fallback move, instantly destroying them. Keep in mind that you can't assault with them, or else the enemy can just move through them. This also works if you hop out of a rhino and rapid fire, then assault with daemons to try and force the wounds needed for a fall back, and using your rhino squad to prevent a fall back.

It isn't really a tactic, especially with little to no terrain, but you should keep an eye open for situations where this can be done.

And just as everyone else said, whats not to love about the surprise extra assaulters, and objective claiming ability.


----------

