# What are the wolves of Fenris?



## ohiobr (Sep 30, 2011)

Reading A Thousand Sons and just got to the part where Phosis T'kar sees into "...the alien core of the being beneath the mask of the wolf."

Really advanced Wulfen?


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## eyescrossed (Mar 31, 2011)

Xenos, possibly?


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## Lubacca (Sep 4, 2011)

advanced humanoids?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Genetically engineered creatures created during the Golden Age of Humanity before the imperium by the first settlers of Fenris. Not sure why they made them, but they did.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

gen.ahab has it. While they might bear a superficial similarity to what we know as wolves their not actual wolves. Fenris is after all a whole different world, and a deathworld at that. 

Likely their something created or modified by the original settlers of Fenris back in the golden or dark age of technology. Which would be why they are so deadly not just in the 'natural world' but in warfare too; they're unnatural creatures.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

There are no wolves on Fenris k:


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## Lord Lorne Walkier (Jul 19, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> Not sure why they made them, but they did.


By the Emperor, so that when he sent out his future Astartes, the planet for his executioners would be ready to mold them.


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## harlokin (Jun 3, 2011)

I took it to suggest that some of the original settlers on Fenris had changed into what are now called Fenrisian Wolves, in order to survive. Hence they are not wolves even though they look like them.


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## GiftofChaos1234 (Jan 27, 2009)

Lord Lorne Walkier said:


> By the Emperor, so that when he sent out his future Astartes, the planet for his executioners would be ready to mold them.


If thats true then you're saying that the Emperor knew that the gods of chaos would scatter the primarchs and that Russ would happen to land there.
im sorry but no. he couldn't have known crap about that. otherwise he would have found him sooner or prevented it happening in the first place.


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## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

GiftofChaos1234 said:


> If thats true then you're saying that the Emperor knew that the gods of chaos would scatter the primarchs and that Russ would happen to land there.
> im sorry but no. he couldn't have known crap about that. otherwise he would have found him sooner or prevented it happening in the first place.


unless it was all part of a master plan? hmm


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, obviously, the author was hinting that the remembrancer was not the only person who was captive inside the infirmary at the Fang. There were other, darker, things in the shadows. When he tells one of the space wolf marines who he talked to in his dreams, the marine gets a pained look on his face and turns away. He knew the name. The inferrance is that something dark and ugly happens to some of the Space Wolf marines when they become too close to their animal natures. They become more and more animalistic, and eventually succumb to the beast, becoming wolves in form.

It is also hinted that natives of Fenris go through a similar transformation, and are then hunted and killed. If it gets out that their tribe harbour these maleficarum, then the entire tribe is put to the sword by its neighbors.

My guess is that Space Marines become wulfen, but tribesmen become thunderwolves.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

The Gunslinger said:


> unless it was all part of a master plan? hmm


If that's true than it implies that the Emperor planned for Angron to get his implants and Curze to get his crazy on. Which makes him even dumber than he currently seems.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

jaysen said:


> My guess is that Space Marines become wulfen, but tribesmen become thunderwolves.


I doubt it. In the codex entry for the TW it says they are closer to rhinos than wolves, having been cross bred to survive on Fenris. This indicates they were bred, rather than mutated. Besides, if TWs were mutated humans there would surely be some residual physical signs of their humanity.

What I think the inferences about fenrisians turning is more to do with werewolves, and might indicate that the mutation that causes the Wulfen might actually be present in native fenrisians even _before_ the implantation of the geneseed. The process might just activate a dormant gene already present in an aspirant. The difference is that a SM turned wulfen would be ten times more lethal than an unaugmented human who mutates.

This may also indicate why any succcessor chapters were a failure. The natives and the geneseed have mutated in tandem, and if you implant the geneseed in someone not from Fenris, maybe they simply aren't compatible.

Also, considering the SW rune priests attitude that they are channelling the spirit of Fenris rather than the power of the warp might also indicate that there is something that is on or part of Fenris that is feral and wolfish in nature, and mutates everything on the planet to a greater or lesser degree. Considering as well the passage posted in the first post by the OP, it seems that the TS is seeing into the psyche of the SW rather than seeing an actual wolf. The something alien he mentions might be the presence or some trace of some sort of World Wolf within the genetic make up of SWs in particular, and Fenrisians in general.

I am going off to a darkened room with a cup of tea to contemplate what I just wrote, as it just came to me in a bit of a flash. My head hurts.:shok:


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

MEQinc said:


> If that's true than it implies that the Emperor planned for Angron to get his implants and Curze to get his crazy on. Which makes him even dumber than he currently seems.


That's presuming he liked mankind, maybe he liked seeing them suffer!

Imagine it, he gets humanity behind him, shows everyone how boss he is, secretly knowing of the massive clusterfuck he's set in motion, and sacrificing himself fighting horus, so he can watch the Imperium become some ridiculous and shoddy death machine. 

He created marines and primarchs to take on the galaxy, made some of them evil to cause people more grief, then sat back with his broken body to watch the ensuing lolz. I reckon he planned everything, he knew mankind was fatally flawed with stupidity, so he just wanted to supersize the flaw :wink:


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Grins1878 said:


> That's presuming he liked mankind, maybe he liked seeing them suffer!
> 
> Imagine it, he gets humanity behind him, shows everyone how boss he is, secretly knowing of the massive clusterfuck he's set in motion, and sacrificing himself fighting horus, so he can watch the Imperium become some ridiculous and shoddy death machine.
> 
> He created marines and primarchs to take on the galaxy, made some of them evil to cause people more grief, then sat back with his broken body to watch the ensuing lolz. I reckon he planned everything, he knew mankind was fatally flawed with stupidity, so he just wanted to supersize the flaw :wink:


The Emperor is Tzeentch, Tzeentch is the Emperor!:shok:

Damn, now I know how Lux feels.:biggrin:


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## The Gunslinger (Apr 4, 2011)

Khorne's Fist said:


> The Emperor is Tzeentch, Tzeentch is the Emperor!:shok:
> 
> Damn, now I know how Lux feels.:biggrin:


who?


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Khorne's Fist said:


> I doubt it. In the codex entry for the TW it says they are closer to rhinos than wolves, having been cross bred to survive on Fenris. This indicates they were bred, rather than mutated. Besides, if TWs were mutated humans there would surely be some residual physical signs of their humanity.
> 
> What I think the inferences about fenrisians turning is more to do with werewolves, and might indicate that the mutation that causes the Wulfen might actually be present in native fenrisians even _before_ the implantation of the geneseed. The process might just activate a dormant gene already present in an aspirant. The difference is that a SM turned wulfen would be ten times more lethal than an unaugmented human who mutates.
> 
> ...


That's a good explanation. I was just going off the Prospero Burns book. I haven't read that far into the codex.

I always looked at the Space Wolves being the creation of some teen girl, maybe Rick Priestley's girlfriend or something, that had a fixation with wolves. But, once I read Prospero Burns, I got a whole new admiration for the legion.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

The reason that the SW geneseed doesn't work on off-worlders is due to the genetic alterations the original settlers made on their own DNA. It isn't some sort of magical mumbo-jumbo, or the warp, or anything like that. It is simply that the seed was designed to work on them, and only them. On any other group of humans, the Canis Helix simply doesn't take. 

And no, the people of Fenris sure as fuck are not thunder wolves in the making.



Khorne's Fist said:


> Also, considering the SW rune priests attitude that they are channelling the spirit of Fenris rather than the power of the warp might also indicate that there is something that is on or part of Fenris that is feral and wolfish in nature, and mutates everything on the planet to a greater or lesser degree. Considering as well the passage posted in the first post by the OP, it seems that the TS is seeing into the psyche of the SW rather than seeing an actual wolf. The something alien he mentions might be the presence or some trace of some sort of World Wolf within the genetic make up of SWs in particular, and Fenrisians in general.


Ya, or the wolves are simply a group of cool, but stupid superstitious tribesmen in really nice armor.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

On Topic: They're mutations(Probably Astartes since they're so tough.) Everything is warp-touched on that world and none of the Space Puppies will admit it. They also kill anyone who says otherwise. :threaten:

Off Topic:

When Horus was taken to the past by Chaos while wounded on Davos, he was sent to Terra when the Word Bearers(who were also in the past via Chaos) broke the gellar fields protecting the Emprah's lab which allowed Chaos to scatter the Primarchs. Big E stopped time for a moment when he spoke to Horus, and he could have stopped the Primarchs from being taken, but he didn't because it was all part of his plan. The Emprah was able to see the future up until Horus came with the Traitor Legions to Terra, then he was mostly blind due to all four Chaos gods empowering Horus in orbit. Big E is just another Chaos god tryin' to make his way in the universe. :victory:


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I think it was in "Prospero Burns" that it talks about them a bit.

Didn't someone (I don't recall who) said that a normal human prepared with the appropriate gear would last mere minutes on the surface of Fenris? And then he posed the question how would iron-working primitives not only survive, but continue to grow in such an inhospitable nightmare. Then hinted at genetic tampering to allow the colonists survive.

Unfortunately, it didn't work out for everyone, and so (it is intimated) the Wolves came to be?


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Yeah, unfortunately, wolves don't fair too well in artic conditions either. How many wolves do you see in northern Alaska or the south pole?


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Wolf


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

jaysen said:


> Yeah, unfortunately, wolves don't fair too well in artic conditions either. How many wolves do you see in northern Alaska or the south pole?





Malus Darkblade said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Wolf


TOLD  haha

The wolves of Fenris might yet still be psychic meterialisations, much like teh orks thinking something works, so it does... the wolves might be a manifestation of the spiritual beliefs of Fenrisians.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Not sure if anyone has posted or referred to this quote from _A Thousand Sons_ but here it is anyway:



“Imagine the time when mankind first discovered Fenris,” continued Magnus, “a world so utterly inimical to life that humans simply could not survive. Everything about Fenris was death, from the blood-freezing cold to the sinking lands to the howling winds that suck the life from your lungs. Back then, of course, geneticists saw impossibility as a challenge, and daily wrought new codes within the chromosomes of human and animal genomes as easily as the Mechanicum punch data-wafers for servitors.”

“So you’re saying that these colonists brought gene-bred wolves with them to Fenris?” said Phosis T’kar.

“Perhaps they did,” allowed Magnus, “but more likely they adapted, imperfectly at times and without thought to the consequences. Or perhaps there were other, older races living on Fenris.” 

Ahriman watched Magnus as he spoke, feeling that there was more to the origins of Fenris than he was telling. Magnus was a traveller who had ventured deeper into the hidden reaches of the Great Ocean than any living soul. Perhaps he had actually witnessed the earliest days of the Wolf King’s world. Magnus gave a studied shrug and said, “You look at those beasts and you see wolves, but is that only because it is what you expect to see?”

“What else would we see?” asked Hathor Maat. “They are wolves.” 

“When you have travelled as far as I have, and seen as I have seen, you will learn that it is possible to look beyond the expected and into the true heart of a thing.” Magnus gestured towards a wolf loping alongside the column, its powerful muscles driving it uphill through the heat without pause.

“I can look past the flesh and muscle of that beast, paring back the bone into the heart of its marrow to read every scar and twist in its genetic code. I can unravel the millennia of change back to the logos of its origins,” said Magnus. Ahriman was surprised to hear sadness in his voice, as though he had seen things he would rather not have seen. “The thing it is, what it wished to be, and all the stages of that long evolutionary road.”

The wolf stopped beside Magnus and he nodded towards it. An unspoken discourse seemed to pass between them. Ahriman caught a knowing glance from Ohthere Wyrdmake. Despite his reservations, he felt the urge to nurture the nascent kinship between them.

“Away with you!” shouted Phosis T’kar, shooing it. “Damned wolves.”

Magnus smiled. “I told you, there are no wolves on Fenris.”


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

I think magnus is also refering to the space wolves astartes themselves with this speech

As if the space wolves are the suffering ones, out of all the astartes their genetic code is arguably the most corrupt, a tragedy, and a curse. (Also leading to the battle of the fang when the priest tried to cure the defective genes)

The wolves feel completely from what was the ideal astartes, they regressed into their own barbarism, lacking the nobility of the other legions (ok so the night lords are scummy but that due to them rather than their dna). 

Maybe the wolves were not meant to be the way they were/ are, Maybe they were not meant to be savage barbarians, who respect nothing but strength, they are afterall more corrupt than the rest of the loyalists, and arguable more corrupt than serveral of the "traitors"


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Wikipedia is a pack of liars. That is all.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Barnster said:


> Maybe they were not meant to be savage barbarians, who respect nothing but strength, they are afterall more corrupt than the rest of the loyalists, and arguable more corrupt than serveral of the "traitors"


But that's the thing. They're not savage barbarians who respect nothing but strength. In _Prospero Burns_ Ogvai clearly explains to Hawser that this is just an image they like to maintain to both their friends and enemies, so that if and when they have to fight someone, they will underestimate and misjudge the SWs. 

At the same time they are fully aware of the role the Emperor has laid down for them, and are comfortable with it. This means that they don't go look for the meaning of life through warp sorcery or feel the need to justify their existence by deifying their creator. This seems to make them look like simple barbarians, when in fact they are the only ones bright enough to truly recognise what they were created for, and embrace it.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Khorne's Fist said:


> At the same time they are fully aware of the role the Emperor has laid down for them, and are comfortable with it. This means that they don't go look for the meaning of life through warp sorcery or feel the need to justify their existence by deifying their creator. This seems to make them look like simple barbarians, when in fact they are the only ones bright enough to truly recognise what they were created for, and embrace it.


An in simply bowing to destiny and fate would be the worse possibilty for a member of the thousand sons and especially magnus, who throughly believe they are able to control their own destiny


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

SoulGazer said:


> Off Topic:
> 
> When Horus was taken to the past by Chaos while wounded on Davos, he was sent to Terra when the Word Bearers(who were also in the past via Chaos) broke the gellar fields protecting the Emprah's lab which allowed Chaos to scatter the Primarchs. Big E stopped time for a moment when he spoke to Horus, and he could have stopped the Primarchs from being taken, but he didn't because it was all part of his plan. The Emprah was able to see the future up until Horus came with the Traitor Legions to Terra, then he was mostly blind due to all four Chaos gods empowering Horus in orbit. Big E is just another Chaos god tryin' to make his way in the universe. :victory:



You are assuming that Horus and the Word Bearers were actually sent into the past? Something personally I find hard to believe and just a little stupid. I always took it to be a vision, not real, just another tool the gods used to corupt them.


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## harlokin (Jun 3, 2011)

Angel of Blood said:


> You are assuming that Horus and the Word Bearers were actually sent into the past? Something personally I find hard to believe and just a little stupid. I always took it to be a vision, not real, just another tool the gods used to corupt them.


Agree 100%. 

The Chaos Gods twisting the truth, and using outright lies to corrupt someone??....Unpossible!


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Barnster said:


> I think magnus is also refering to the space wolves astartes themselves with this speech
> 
> As if the space wolves are the suffering ones, out of all the astartes their genetic code is arguably the most corrupt, a tragedy, and a curse. (Also leading to the battle of the fang when the priest tried to cure the defective genes)
> 
> ...


I actually really like this interpretation. It also fits with the idea that Magnus seems to speak in metaphor a lot, as befits a powerful seer. He sees right through the Space Wolves 'act' and says so, right in front of some Space Wovles who fail to see his meaning.



Khorne's Fist said:


> But that's the thing. They're not savage barbarians who respect nothing but strength. In _Prospero Burns_ Ogvai clearly explains to Hawser that this is just an image they like to maintain to both their friends and enemies, so that if and when they have to fight someone, they will underestimate and misjudge the SWs.


Image or no it is also a part of their being. The fact is that the Space Wolves have embraced this 'personna' to the degree that it has stopped being just an act. They have become the mask and are little more than barbarians (note that being a barbarian doesn't make you stupid, it makes you superstitious and uneducated) with an inflated sense of their self-worth.



> This seems to make them look like simple barbarians, when in fact they are the only ones bright enough to truly recognise what they were created for, and embrace it.


They are hardly the only ones, and the company that puts them in is not a glorious one. The Night Lords, and Night Haunter in particular, understood exactly what the Emp intend for them and threw themselves whole-hog into it. The World Eaters saw the power of the Astartes and embraced it savagely. That the Space Wolves, or at least some of them, are 'bright' enough to recognize the same does not make them special. That the Thousand Sons and Word Bearers are bold enough to try and find new purpose does not make them fools; Loken is a highly regarded character precisely because he refused to accept his nature as an Astarte. In many ways striving to overcome ones base nature is far more noble than simply accepting it and letting it rule you.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

> That the Thousand Sons and Word Bearers are bold enough to try and find new purpose does not make them fools;


Considering how they ended up, it kinda does.


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