# Count-as Lysander VS Space Marine Captain



## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

Ok, I've come to a cross road in the development of my army, in the way of my First Company Captain. My two ideas are: 1) Captain Lysander 2) Space Marine Captain with Artificer Armour, Relic blade and Storm shield.

Here's my pro and con list for both:

*Lysander:*

Pro's:

1 more wound
Eternal warrior
Strength 10 in CC
Bolter Drill
Bolster defenses

Con's:

Strikes at Initative 1
Chapter Tactics
Costs 40 more points

*Captain:*

Pro's:

40 more points
Strikes at Initative 5
Can be altered to meet other requirements (i.e. ranged)
Still wounds MEQ's on 2+
Can perform sweeping advance

Con's:

No Eternal warrior, so gets insta-killed by a stray lascannon or Lysander's thunder hammer.

Have I missed something? Is there some glaring flaw or bonus I have overlooked, as I can't make my mind up  

Help would be appreciated fellow heretics k:


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## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

Deus Mortis said:


> Ok, I've come to a cross road in the development of my army, in the way of my First Company Captain. My two ideas are: 1) Captain Lysander 2) Space Marine Captain with Artificer Armour, Relic blade and Storm shield.
> 
> Here's my pro and con list for both:
> 
> ...


So basically for 40pts you lose initiative and sweeping advance but you gain eternal warrior, an extra wound, strength 10, re-rolling any bolter/storm bolters/bolt pistols that are in Lysanders squad and bolster defences.....
Of course you should take a Captain..... 

(Hint:^^ TAKE LYSANDER!)


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

It's Lysander for me. 

But having said that, it depends on the points cost entirely.

There is no point taking a 200 point model when the points cost is between 500 - 1500 points (1500 may be possible though), so a captain should be used here over Lysander. But at 1750, Lysander should fit fine.

Then again it also depends on the list you are running. 

A captain is also more versatile than Lysander in the sense that you can kit him out to fit your army, rather than having fixed weapons like Lysander does.


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## Dakingofchaos (Sep 29, 2009)

can you take relic blade and storm shield? i thought relic blade was two handed? xD


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## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

It is but only for the purposes of weather you get an additional close combat weapon.


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

What if he's a Chapter master instead?


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Because they are exactly the same bar for obital bombardement, at an increase in cost for 25 points. 

25 points for a 1 shot only per game, scatter that isn't affected by the firers BS is pretty bad. It could end up 12" away from the intended target, it could even wipe out many of your own models.

That being said, it is utterly devastating if it hits. But I'd go for the Captain over Chapter Master any day, unless the points cost was something like 3000.


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Er, what? It's a trick question.

You only take captains if they're on bikes. As such, comparing anything with a foot captain is a bit of a false comparison.

Instead, compare him to a Libby. And a Libby grants psychic defenses, provides you with Null zone and (and here's the kicker) they don't have to get outside of their metal bawks, and therefore can go with your basic bawks, rather than forcing you to drop 500 points on raiders.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Well yeah, I only ever take a captain on a bike, and otherwise I normally use a Librarian instead, but seeing as the OP wanted to compare those two, I did 

And even then I only take the captain to allow bikes as troop choices and command squads.


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## moshpiler (Apr 16, 2009)

the OP wants someone to lead his 1st company. librarians don't usually fit the role of captain, fluff wise.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Good point, moshpiler. Competitive wise then, librarian, but otherwise yeah he wouldn't fit that role. Unless his fluff fitted it, like if they were blood ravens for example.


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

Well the Chapter I play is Raven guard, usually fast striking assault-based marines. Seeing as Terminator armour (and Lysander in particular) are generally used for prolonged assaults, I thought the captain might fit the fluff better, but that's just me...


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

If you're fluff is be all-end-all, then consider running him on a bike. Raiders cost too much; you never want to be fielding just one raider and until you hit 2k points running two raiders is gonna wreck your points allotment.

If you want something a bit more "fast moving assault" oriented than Bikers, it might make more sense to use the BA list courtesy of the "counts as" rules. You'll get a bit of guff for picking up the second-newest army list out there, but it's the only list that adequately supports a jumpers list. Heck, it's the only list where assault marines don't horrendously suck.

Remember that you can liberally and gratuitously use those counts-as lists. A Blood Priest could instead be The World's Coolest Apothecaries, etc.


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