# Is Vulkan a top-tier primarch



## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

what do you think of his fighting abilities.. is he a top-tier primarch in fighting

how would he do against Leman Russ....... in a fight

Angron 

etc.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

I would think he was a talented CC fighter, but his skills were not entirely focused in that aspect like Angron, Russ, Sanguinius, Lion' El Johnson, etc. 

He wouldnt be Top tier in my opinion, though there may be fluff supporting that he is, which i am unaware of.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

is vulkan cc skils on par with russ??

or angron?


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

His fighting skills may not be on par with the others, but he could blacksmith all those motherfuckers under the table.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

that begs the question, who would win a blacksmithing contest between Manus and Vulkan? Were they known for different styles of blacksmithing? I think they were both technological/blacksmith-style primarchs.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> that begs the question, who would win a blacksmithing contest between Manus and Vulkan? Were they known for different styles of blacksmithing? I think they were both technological/blacksmith-style primarchs.


Ferrus Manus in _Fulgrim_, says something along the lines of using the bolter Vulkan gave him for the very first time for respect. He never used it before because he never trusted anything that wasn't made from his skills and knowledge.

I imagine Vulkan feels the opposite. Trusting his skills with his human hands. Unlike Ferrus Manus and his perfect metal hands. 

I think the smithing with the Salamanders is more about effort where the Iron Hands are with perfection. Each with its strengths and weaknesses.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

Well, Vulkan and the Emperor (referred to as the Outlander when he appeared) had a competition involving various feats of strength and such. 

I kind of like the fact that the Emperor had to beat him in the last competition (they'd competed in various tasks and feats the days previous) before Vulkan acknowledged the Emperor.


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## grimdarkness (Apr 19, 2010)

ckcrawford said:


> Ferrus Manus in _Fulgrim_, says something along the lines of using the bolter Vulkan gave him for the very first time for respect. He never used it before because he never trusted anything that wasn't made from his skills and knowledge.
> 
> I imagine Vulkan feels the opposite. Trusting his skills with his human hands. Unlike Ferrus Manus and his perfect metal hands.
> 
> I think the smithing with the Salamanders is more about effort where the Iron Hands are with perfection. Each with its strengths and weaknesses.


I thought that was the other way round. Vulkan used a pistol fashioned by Ferrus, which he had previously refused to use because he did not trust something that had not felt the fire of the forge.

.... or i'm being really dense.


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

grimdarkness said:


> I thought that was the other way round. Vulkan used a pistol fashioned by Ferrus, which he had previously refused to use because he did not trust something that had not felt the fire of the forge.
> 
> .... or i'm being really dense.


Yeah i heard Vulkan didnt use a weapon forged for him by Ferrus

and about Vulkan's combat skills, i cant really say seeing as there is so little fluff about him and all the primarchs were skilled fighters, but i dont think he would be able to beat Angron or Russ seeing as they specialize more in combat.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

The others would never get close enough to touch Vulkan, cause he makes the biggest and meanest hammers there is.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

In another thread someone mentioned in a HH book that vulcan was one of the strongest if not the strongest.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Doelago said:


> The others would never get close enough to touch Vulkan, cause he makes the biggest and meanest hammers there is.


Perturabo: "Where the hell is Vulkan?! That bastard took my screw driver! I'm so going to kick his ass!"

Dorn: "Beats me" *Shrugs* 

*Perturabo charges into Vulkan's forge and gets smacked by a giant hammer out of nowhere*

*Vulkan emerges with a big hammer with a really long handle*

Vulkan: "Bitches don't be messin' with me and my hammer."

Dorn: "lol"


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Chompy Bits said:


> Perturabo: "Where the hell is Vulkan?! That bastard took my screw driver! I'm so going to kick his ass!"
> 
> Dorn: "Beats me" *Shrugs*
> 
> ...


Doelago: +rep :laugh:


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Aye its in Age of Darkness ''Forgotten Sons" That one of the Salamanders says _"his strength and fortitude... in that, the Eighteenth Primarch was unrivaled"_. This is as Vulkan is running along literally throwing battle tanks into the air with his bare hands like toys. Although it is a Salamander giving this view and therefore likely biased, he is still objective enough to take into account that Ferrus Manus may have been as strong or stronger, but mentions that as Ferrus is dead, the point is mute.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> This is as Vulkan is running along literally throwing battle tanks into the air with his bare hands like toys.


You just gave me the idea for a Slayer Sword winning diorama.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

locustgate said:


> In another thread someone mentioned in a HH book that vulcan was one of the strongest if not the strongest.


It's noted that with Ferrus dead that Vulkan is unarguably the strongest Primarch (and since Ferrus was the second largest Primarch after Magnus you know Vulkan must be a strong bastard if he was pretty much tied with that monster).


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> that begs the question, who would win a blacksmithing contest between Manus and Vulkan? Were they known for different styles of blacksmithing? I think they were both technological/blacksmith-style primarchs.


I'm sure Ferrus would make a nice, functional hammer, but Vulkan would do it with _style._

I'm not as up on my fluff as some of the people here, but in my head Vulkan is pretty much Shaft in power armour.

_Who is the man that would risk his neck
For his brother man?
Vulkan!, damn right

Who's the cat that won't cop out
When there's danger all about?
Vulkan!, right on...._


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

so you guys are saying he is one of the physically strongest...

but what about CC skills.. he might be stronger then russ, but could he beat russ in H2H

can he beat guys like horus, sanguinus, , manus etc. etc.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Ferrus Manus said:


> Yeah i heard Vulkan didnt use a weapon forged for him by Ferrus
> 
> and about Vulkan's combat skills, i cant really say seeing as there is so little fluff about him and all the primarchs were skilled fighters, but i dont think he would be able to beat Angron or Russ seeing as they specialize more in combat.


Haha, very well. Carry on Mr. Perfect.


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## Hammer49 (Feb 12, 2011)

I think he would struggle against the smarter primarchs. He may be able to hold his own against the more brutal styles of angron & curze, but the others wouldnt give him a chance to use his strength.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Hammer49 said:


> I think he would struggle against the smarter primarchs. He may be able to hold his own against the more brutal styles of angron & curze, but the others wouldnt give him a chance to use his strength.


so against guys like sanguinius.... vulkan would??


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

ckcrawford said:


> Haha, very well. Carry on Mr. Perfect.


I dont seem to get it, have i done something wrong?


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## Hammer49 (Feb 12, 2011)

Emperorguard500 said:


> so against guys like sanguinius.... vulkan would??


I basically think they would be to fast for him.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Hammer49 said:


> I basically think they would be to fast for him.


isn't vulkan like really slow anyways


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## Hammer49 (Feb 12, 2011)

Emperorguard500 said:


> isn't vulkan like really slow anyways


Exactly they would be able to strike and get out of range before any retribution comes there way.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

maybe the Khan is actually the best H2H fighter


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## no pain no gain (Mar 10, 2011)

*Hi hi*



Emperorguard500 said:


> so you guys are saying he is one of the physically strongest...
> 
> but what about CC skills.. he might be stronger then russ, but could he beat russ in H2H
> 
> can he beat guys like horus, sanguinus, , manus etc. etc.


Well, lets consider all factors:

He is supposedly very strong, which of course is always a plus.

He comes off as quite honorable and definitely not "a sneaky git", which might be a negative against opponents who would resort to anything in order to win, so a minus here.

He managed to beat the Emperor in a number of trials, so he must have some really good qualities, so a plus here.

He has a very advanced gun, indicating that he probably prefers to kill from a distance, so a minus here

He's black, and since most top-ranking boxers are black, this probably means he's an excellent boxer, so that's a plus

He wears green, and since green is a peace color that probably means he's not very aggressive, so a minus here

He's bald, and since most good fighters are bald or have really short hair, this probably means he's a good fighter, which is a plus

The Salamander lizard is quite a slow animal, so he is probably slower than most other Primarchs, so a minus here
So to summarize, I 'd say it depends... k:


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## MuSigma (Jul 8, 2010)

no pain no gain said:


> Well, lets consider all factors:
> 
> He wears green, and since green is a peace color that probably means he's not very aggressive, so a minus here
> 
> ...





LOL - Orks are Green.

Most Armies wear Green.

Dragons and Deamons are sometimes Green


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## GiftofChaos1234 (Jan 27, 2009)

course if vulkan managed to throw one of those tanks into one of his opponents it'd be a different story

EDIT: i made an oopsies :/


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Most information I've come across seem to point to him being incredibly strong (Including some of his Astartes to, like Zhufor is from a Salamander successor he's meant to be incredibly strong and tough) but slow, still incredibly fast by Space Marine standards though just not as fast as other Primarchs. In the First Heretic for example he was just wading through marines smashing them aside with a single strike. Until I've read the latest limited edition HH novel I can't be sure whether he's a top tier Primarch.

I always considered Corax to be a lower tier Primarch but after reading a lot about him, such as him beating Horus in a duel, him sticking two fingers up at Horus, having a badass power, laughing at Lorgar as he beat his ass down, I actually consider him a lot higher up the table than he was. 

I want to know about The Khan, several times he appears during conversations and a lot of it concerns his martial ability in close combat.

However after reading stuff about Roboute Guilliman I'm actually lowering him down the table.


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

In Age of Darkness it said that the strongest primarch physically was between Ferrus Mannus and Vulkan, but now that argument was mute. And strength clearly isn't everything, as Fulgrim proved, twice against Mannus.


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## Chaplain Garrus (May 15, 2011)

I'm not sure what would consist of a top tier primarch but he has a spear that could burn through almost anything in the known universe.

Also this slowness thing I believe is not necessarily attributed to the gene seed/creation of salamanders, more the actual gravity of their home planet Nocturne. The planet has a higher gravity strength than other planets which makes Salamanders hardy and very buffed up soldiers. 

I don't think Vulkan's slightly slower reactions would really factor that much, from what I interpreted it's probably like a split of a split second slower than other marines' reactions, maybe with higher gravity more brain power is diverted to resistance against the gravity? And if it is to do with the gravity of the home planet Nocturne, then Im sure he'd be just as fast, if not faster than some chapters as a result of pushing against such high gravity, when he visits planets of lower gravity strengths.
Salamanders have problems using certain light vehicles on their planet due to the gravity being so strong.

Regardless I wouldn't factor in a "slower" reaction time of Vulkan as being a disadvantage, if you think average space marine has a nanosecond reaction, Vulkan probably has a nanosecond and a half slower reaction considering that his speed would still be more than superhuman. 


EDIT: As for combat, Vulkan may not beat some of the close combat specialists in a fist fight or he may well be on par but he would likely specialise in flame weapons and slow drawing but hard hitting melee weapons such as hammers/axes. So I'd say he was more a close-range ranged specialist. Salamanders are very aggressive in close combat.
Also in a one on one fight, depends what each primarch would be fighting with in terms of who would win.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

raider1987 said:


> In Age of Darkness it said that the strongest primarch physically was between Ferrus Mannus and Vulkan, but now that argument was mute. And strength clearly isn't everything, as Fulgrim proved, twice against Mannus.



Well, i still believe without the Laeren blade, Fulgrim woud have been killed my Manus in the second fight.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

I agree with angel of blood, after having read the nick kyme books, I would say the battle doctrine is more ranged fights but ranged in the sense of just more than cc range where their flamers have maximum impact and everything coming through the wall of fire is smashed by big hammers, 
that being said Vulkan is the BA baracus of the primarchs, black strong and good with a welding torch, after reading the age of darkness short story I would say he is pretty good at cc, ok he is slower but once he has a grip on you you are fckd, sort of like marv fighting kevin in sin city


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## no pain no gain (Mar 10, 2011)

*Hmm*



Words_of_Truth said:


> I always considered Corax to be a lower tier Primarch but after reading a lot about him, such as him beating Horus in a duel, him sticking two fingers up at Horus, having a badass power, laughing at Lorgar as he beat his ass down, I actually consider him a lot higher up the table than he was.


Where did you read that Corax beat Horus in a duel?

Cheers


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

no pain no gain said:


> Where did you read that Corax beat Horus in a duel?
> 
> Cheers


Yeah I haven't herd of this. Corax in Ravens flight acknowledges that he would be killed if he ever fought angron, the only ones that could beat angron are Horus and Sanguinius. Suggesting that those are the top 3 in martial prowess.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

no pain no gain said:


> Where did you read that Corax beat Horus in a duel?
> 
> Cheers


It's difficult to remember. There where three Primarchs said to of beaten Horus in a duel. Leman Russ was one, I think Sanguinius the other and finally I believe Corax was the last, I'm unsure whether it was in the early HH books or elsewhere though but it was definitely three as I understand it. Edit - Actually I believe it was an old dwarf article.

Corax said he couldn't best Angron which I believe was more out of fear than actual comparison, similiar to how Dorn thought he could own everyone except Night Haunter.

In relation to the topic, after reading the latest limited edition book, I'd place Vulkan as a middle tier Primarch, he could carry a weapon that no one else could lift apparently but his biggest virtue was his compassion.


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> It's difficult to remember. There where three Primarchs said to of beaten Horus in a duel. Leman Russ was one, I think Sanguinius the other and finally I believe Corax was the last, I'm unsure whether it was in the early HH books or elsewhere though but it was definitely three as I understand it. Edit - Actually I believe it was an old dwarf article.
> 
> Corax said he couldn't best Angron which I believe was more out of fear than actual comparison, similiar to how Dorn thought he could own everyone except Night Haunter.


I would really not consider an old white dwarf article cannon. Multiple sources throughout the years and many books have stated that Horus was the best of them all when it came to martial prowess. Only Sanguinius was the challenger... but we all know how that one turned out.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

raider1987 said:


> I would really not consider an old white dwarf article cannon. Multiple sources throughout the years and many books have stated that Horus was the best of them all when it came to martial prowess. Only Sanguinius was the challenger... but we all know how that one turned out.


It's a very minor point that I doubt will be corrected, so it's the best we have to go on. I still maintain Dorn didn't die storming a bridge since the article is so out of date, but people still use the old Index Astartes article against me.


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> It's a very minor point that I doubt will be correct, so it's the best we have to go on. I still maintain Dorn didn't die storming a bridge since the article is so out of date, but people still use the old Index Astartes article against me.


You are probably right there, I really do not take anything said in a codex for a board game as strict cannon. I have never brought a codex, but the person who got me into 40k has and I have read a few. I mean in the space wolves codex it stated that Ironhelm, the Space wolf chapter master defeated Magnus the Red in single combat at the Battle of the Fang. Thanks to the awesome book by Chris Wright we know that 

that is very far from true, magnus destroyed at least 8 dreadnaughts, dozens of Spacewolves, possibly the majority of a company, 5 rune preists who were so powerful some even controlled the weather using it to destroy armies, as well as a wolf lord and his honour guard all in terminator armour, he then did battle with Bjorn the Fell handed, and Ironhelm was just the last to go in, when magnus was at a fraction of his strength he easily killed him, then left because his objectives were achieved. 


The Grey Knights codex is even more insane, with a grey Knight who for some reason just can't die. Another guy exists in the warp and just runs around killing every deamon, and he also defeated the deamon primarch Mortarion in the warp.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Chaplain Garrus said:


> I don't think Vulkan's slightly slower reactions would really factor that much, from what I interpreted it's probably like a split of a split second slower than other marines' reactions,


Reaction time can play a huge role in a hand-to-hand fight. Particularly when dealing with individuals as fast and powerful as a Primarch. If it takes Vulkan 1.5 nano-seconds (which is probably way too fast even for a Primarch) to react to a punch being thrown and that punch can land in a half-second than Vulkan's going to be getting pummeled and be pretty much completely unable to respond. Also Primarchs have shown the power to one-shot each other in the past (Russ v. Lion, Night Haunter v. Dorn) so it's quite likely that the one unopposed strike the enemy Primarch can get in before Vulkan responds is all he'd need to k.o. him. 

Ultimately Vulkan may be a very talented and dangerous fighter (indeed he's pretty much guaranteed to be) but he is not a top tier *Primarch*. To qualify to be in the top tier of a group like that you gotta show some real talent, or at the very least have another Primarch speculate that you're good. As is Vulkan's got nothing on the whirl-winds of carnage that Angron, Corax, Sanguinious and even Horus are.


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