# What's the best army in 8th ed



## Jack96

I'm thinking of starting a new army but I don't know what
any advice would be great but I don't want to start
skaven
any of the elves
anything chaos
brettonians
my previous army was lizardmen


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## Skartooth

Are you looking for the most powerful army as the title says? I would say that both high and dark elf's are very good in the new edition. Skaven are also be pretty good as-well with their ability to field a massive amount of infantry. I would suggest choosing an army through conversion painting and fluff opportunities rather than performance on the table top.

Skar


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## Barnster

Arguably none of the armies should be the best, they should all be balanced.

If the topics about what armies are easiest to play in 8th it would likely be Skaven H or D elves, dwarfs and chaos 

So the best thats not in your list would probably be dwarves


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## karlhunt

I agree, Dwarves have real potential but for my money I would say Ogres. Their army's overall power was trippled with the supporting attacks and being Monsterous Infantry.

Take a look here: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=11500022a

Admittedly the lists GW comes up with are usually garbage but the reasoning on this one isn't bad.

Tomb Kings are showing whole new promise, they always did have interesting infantry and they are the only army that isn't limited in the magic phase by a bad roll for the winds of magic.

All that said I would avoid Wood Elves and Brettonia like the plague, the Wood Elf skirmishing got killed witht he nerf stick and Brett cavalry is all but garbage now. If they could bring big blocks it might be worth it but being limited to 15 to a unit is just dumb!


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## Blue Liger

Yeah Wood Elf Skirmish gang tatcics got smashed to bits and with 360 arc of sight gone too it dulled elite units such as waywatchers a bit too much considering we have no armour and relied on the cover rules back in 7th. On top of this our stubborn ability with Eternal Guard has been taken up by just using lots though characters are still good in them as we can use them to count them as core. In saying this though Eternal Guard now pack a huge punch an can mass more attacks in CC than HE seaguard or whatever they are with less numbers, and glade guard just got nasty too with blocks of 20 or even 30 becoming popular and now have reason to take a musician or even full command


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## GrizBe

Ogre's defiantely got some advantage with the new edition. The addition of 'Stomp' attacks, and that their second row can use its full attack potential being monsterous... you've got a real juggernaut of a unit with them.


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## Tim/Steve

Ogres got some bonusses with the new rules, which is plainly obvious. What isnt so obvious is that the core rules that ogres relied upon disappeared, and as such they stayed about the same. They get lots of bonus attacks, but have just about the lowest I in the game and their magic is essentially useless now. I think they'll stay what they've always been- able to kick the ass of some army builds, but certain armies will just smash them.
I dont really understand people saying that waywatchers got nerfed... sure they have to be a bit more formal about their formation but the march and shoot, and easier set up rules should help them... the rest of the WE however arent quite so lucky.


I recon the most powerful armies in 8th will be HE and SKaven... with probably the Skaven as the best. Units of slaves are basically unbreakable if they are anywhere near the general (and especially if they have BSB close by) and their magic and toxins are very useful. Big blocks of slaves are cheap and will last a long time.. and Skaven shooting can still target the enemy while the slaves keep them locked. HEs are very very useful now with their ASF (especially with the re-rolls to hit). The boost to magic has helped them too, especially when the HE have lots of protection from miscasts (not to mention Teclis) and the cheap powerhouses that are Caradryan and Korhil.


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## Cheese meister

oh no brets limited 2 15 models a unit that is 4 ranks 4 steadfast breaking and stupid number of attacks due to the lance formation but daemons are pretty tasty all khorne just infantry and a few juggers


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## Jack96

If I want to make a nearly unbeatable broken armylist are ogres the way to go?


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## neilbatte

No. Ogres got a rank boost and the new magic items are quite useful but they're no better than orcs toughness wise and with the inability to get saves combined with low initiative means they will take a lot of hits long before you get a chance to kill stuff.
Any full strength infantry unit should be able to see off roughly equal points worth of ogre's.
Gnoblar tarpits and scrap launchers are a lot more useful than they were (but they are the least appealing models to assemble/paint) hopefully ogres will get a new book soon to address these problems but armies like Empire, skaven any elves even woodies will tear ogres a new one the only armies that find it harder are Dwarves (although their artillery will hurt more) and lizzies undead and possibly brettonian as they are all either low init or struggle to cause enough wound to make a difference.


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## Skartooth

> If I want to make a nearly unbeatable broken armylist are ogres the way to go?


Hahahaha no way man. I can't believe this, you think ogres could be broken and want to find out what the best army is. My advice to you would be to go out and play the game a bit first and get some experience, then decide for your self

Skar


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## Jack96

Then what army should I start I don't care about the look or feel of the army as long as it isn't horde (they take ages to pack away) I just want an incredibly broken list


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## Rob1981

Daemons are still pretty broken, but not as bad as they were, big units of Khorne bloodletters are just obscene, lead them with skulltaker for an extra dose of cheese


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## Jack96

No demons or chaos/elf army I play against them a lot and two of the same armies against each other is BORING!!!


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## Tim/Steve

Well, saince you have said no hoard, no elf, no chaos and it must be a strong army I rather think you have completely run out of options. The only 2 I think that are left are dwarves and lizzies... the dwarven war machine of doom army will be a very tough nut to crack in 8th, but I dont really see the power of lizzies beyond then having just about the best ranked units throughout their army (sure chaos warriors are better then temple guard, but not by much... and then there are saurus and skink ranked units to back them up- although I cant remember the names of the big things that joins skinks to give them some combat power).

The dwarven list is basically the maximum number of the best warmachines filling all the special/rare choices... I think someone said you could get something like 17 war machines at 2k (6 bolt throwers, 3 cannons, 2 grudge throwers, 2 organ guns and anything else you have the points for). You can take so much power in the war machines and then back them up with thunderers and a few cheapish blocks of warriors as well as being able to shut down most people's magic phase... but whether armies can weather then storm of metal long enough to reach the dwarves is yet to be seen (and I recon it would be really boring to play- shoot.... shoot... shoot... shoot.... win/loss, repeat next game. No magic on either side, little combat and no manouvering).


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## Jack96

If I can stop enemy magic and shoot them to bits then I guess I might start dwarves does anyone have any broken armylists for dwarfs against 1+ and 3+ armour chaos


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## Blue Liger

Jack96 said:


> No demons or chaos/elf army I play against them a lot and two of the same armies against each other is BORING!!!


You want a broken army and list to go with it but you won't go elves have fun, yes dwarfs are good but a HE line up will break them nicely.

To me you seem to be a win at all costs and no fun person so I'm just going to suggest HE or DE and ignore you rejections as they are prety well broken along side of dwarfs. Second point look in the army lists for Dwarfs lists 8th ed only just came out don't expect every dwarf player on here to be a master already go play a game yourself!


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## Rob1981

I'm wondering about your motivation for having a 'broken' army. Winning isn't everything, surely the enjoyment of the game takes paramount. And believe me, any army played well can win games for you if thats your primary concern. Do you paint at all or just play?


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## Skartooth

I too an wondering about your motivation to get a 'broken army' what the deal with it. I find it confusing you haven't a clue about what is good and what is not but want to win at all cost. This hobby should be for fun and enjoyment not 'win at all costs'

Skar


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## Masked Jackal

Frankly, if you want to win without using any tactics, which seems to be your goal here, you should just not try. If you want to try to make your opponents lose every time to you without a contest, and not have fun, then go ahead and ask them before the game and see how many takers you get.


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## Jack96

I rarel paint rob1981 except for my necrons but I plan on painting everything as I get it with my new army
everyone I play with has a broken list (archaon and 30/40 chaos knights in 3k and kurt helborg AND karl franz in the same unit of inner circle knights) I never stand a chance against them but I want that to change 
how bent is the dwarf king and what does he do


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## Barnster

If you play dwarves and want to stop knghts go cannon and bolt thrower heavy. Don't rely on special characters, but rather on big units of infantry and big guns. Just take a regualar dwarf lord with 1+ save and GW with the ASF rune. Ironbreakers will hold the line, with thunderers and quarrelers.


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## Tim/Steve

Dwarf King: him and his unit just dont die... ever. Thats basically summing him up. Anyone short of Archaon wont have much of a chance against him and the unit just isnt going to break (and being dwarves they are hard to kill). It is massively expensive and very slow moving though... so anyone with good tactics just tries to avoid you or lure you out of position while they destroy the rest of your army.



Barnster said:


> Just take a regualar dwarf lord with 1+ save and GW with the ASF rune.


There's no point taking the ASF rune with a great weapon as a dwarf... 8th ed means the great weapon's ASL cancels out the ASF of the rune and you strike at I... which being a dwarf if pretty mush ignorable. Just take the ASL great weapon and accept you'll be attacking second, your armour is normally good enough to see you through (especially if you take defensive runes).


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## Masked Jackal

Jack96 said:


> I rarel paint rob1981 except for my necrons but I plan on painting everything as I get it with my new army
> everyone I play with has a broken list (archaon and 30/40 chaos knights in 3k and kurt helborg AND karl franz in the same unit of inner circle knights) I never stand a chance against them but I want that to change
> how bent is the dwarf king and what does he do


If your local players are taking something like that against you, there are ways to counter without being completely broken. For one thing, Archaon and a huge unit of Chaos Knights like that are over half the points allowance at 3k. Even with Magic Resistance 2, just casting away with Lore of Metal, combined with baiting and redirecting can keep this from being an issue. I'm not sure about Kurt Helborg and Karl Franz, as no-one here plays Empire, but I'm sure that there are similar counters to that unit. If it becomes that much of a problem, simply run counter-lists to them. A games no fun if you get wiped off a table, and, depending on the person, even the winning side feels the pain.


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## Yilmar

Masked Jackal said:


> I'm not sure about Kurt Helborg and Karl Franz, as no-one here plays Empire...


Ouch!
I know I don't reply that much but that hurts :scratchhead:

Now countering KF and KH in a unit of IC knights is quite easy you know. All Empire special characters have very weak defences. Kurt Helborg only has a 2+ as while KF has a 2+ as, 4+ ws and with magic resistance a 2+ ws on magic. The magic resistance also transfers a 4+ ws to the rest of the unit. So granted that you won't kill them easily by magic but the other defences are easy to overcome. 
The best way to counter both heroes and the unit of IC knights is purely by ranks and volume of attacks. The unit usually isn't steadfast and therefore has no stubborn making the unit vulnerable to break from combat. Also after the initial impact is absorbed, knights are generally good for only 1 turn, you should be able to wear them down and kill the unit eventually. All you need is a horde of stubborn or unbreakable infantry with a character that can dish out the pain in challenges.

Good luck!

Yilmar " the one that plays Empire " :grin:


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## karlhunt

Keep in mind that Lore of Metal's sixth spell causes every model in the unit to be removed as a casuality on a 5+ (6+ if they have more than one wound) with no saves of any kind allowed. That means that MR is worthless against it. Dwellers Below (life?) does the same with a Str check, I lost 11 out of 30 IC Knights on turn one this way.


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## Yilmar

And thats why you shouldn't have to many eggs in one basket.
Thank you 8th ed magic!


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## Jack96

If I'm dwarves I don't have magic but I really want to beat that empire army he used all the handgunners and warmachines in the world against me today and ONE little halberdier overran my stegadon cast pit of shades on my temple guard all that was left was my slann who causes d3 winds which are doubled against kurt cause I nominated him it was my 1 chance to kill him I was ws 10 and I got a 2 to hit it was the most annoying thing EVER
I'd still like to know the rules for the king and the minimum sized game I can use him


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## boreas

I understand you play Lizardmen? If you already have those, you could cheeze them out... 2 units of 3 salamanders will usually be horrendously powerfull against the Empire. Add to that a slann with Ruminations of Focus, Cupped hands, plaque of Tepok (+1 spell) with lore of Metal and you'll devastate his knights and (if there is one) Steam tank. Finally, take some terradons accompanied by a skink chief on terradon with Mask of EEE! to give the unit terror) and go warmachine hunting (add 2 units of chameleon skinks and you wont fear cannons anymore!). Finally, add blocks of 6x4 saurus with HW&S (very resistant blocks of troops that can be buffed by Enchanted Blades of Aiban). Final Transmutation can hurt all big units also.

That should also work well against a chaos list that's heavy with Chaos knights and WoC.

Phil


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## Jack96

I won't be able to cheese out on my lizardmen as I am selling them along with my wood elves so i can have money to start dwarves and emperrors children for 40k
I don't want to buy dwarves till I see a broken thorgrim grudgbearer list so I know what to buy


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## the-graven

You know I'm fightinh DE and HE too, and the high elf player likes to make a list as strong as possible, this mostly results in broken, but you know what, I'm not gonna make a broken list with my lizzie's, I don't care if I lose, I just play for fun, you should try that too, just play for fun. And if it really annoys you ask your friends if they can make some less broken lists, so it'll be more fun.
Another thing, make up a scenario wich works in your favor, i.e. make a scenario where wild cold ones ambush(his army of course).


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## Jack96

I've already promised someone i'd sell the lizzies to him so I can't


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## deathbringer

First of all as has been repeated jack you seem like a "I must win" tool, my advice is get a brain and some tactical ability and games will start to go right for you. If your current list cant counter it change your list slightly look for weaknesses in their list and match them to the strengths in yours, not throw a pissfit and say dont want to play with these shitty models anymore.

Vampire counts are still a horribly difficult army, with nasty nasty vampires easily renewing there unbreakable units due to the new casting system. Generally they are still nasty, though the limit on lords and charactors makes them far less difficult than they were however roll on huge huge ranks of zombies and ethereal units in the flanks.

Dwarves are tough too as artillery is now horrible, stone throwers and peasants in my brett lists, shit i feel sick just thinking about it. Unfortunately i think im just going to have to loose and stick with my large armounts of knights, at least they look pretty.


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## Jack96

I'm gonna do demons 
here's an idea for a 3k list
keeper of secrets lvl 4 100 pts of gifts (dunno what to give it)
2 heralds of slaanesh maxed out and 1 on a seeker
skulltaker
30 demonettes with siren standard
30 demonettes
30 bloodletters with endless war standard
6 seekers
6 flamers

what do you think
if anyone knows what to give my KoS please tell and say what the gifts do I don't have an armybook yet I was just lookin through the stores copy today


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## Freedirtyneedles

o.k so you'll be selling off all your old models to buy a new army that you think will defeat everything. but what happens when that army fails your expectations? Logic dictates that it would just be cheaper to find a way to win with the army you have instead of starting a new one everytime you lose.
example: I started playing nurgle themed warriors of chaos army, and had a TON of losses while learning how my army worked, and how to actually win with my army. Archeon Can be beaten...I did it in a challenge with a simple nurgle lord. never fought Franz but I beat Kurt with the same Lord, if those guys keep popping up, have a strat to beat em down. no army out there will win just by showing up,find what your army does well and focus on that, then find out what your army sucks at and figure out a strat to compensate. example, my army is very infantry heavy, the units are meat grinders with legs, downsides are they have no ranged support are expensive and slow moving. solutions: grabbed a nurgle sorc to help wittle down enemy units as I advanced, got a nice banner to keep my front line from scattering, gave the large units mark of nurgle to protect from missle fire, and screened with chaos hounds, also added some cav to help the flanks. result: very nice list that my rivals like to play against, that does'nt rely on cheesey combos to win, just a solid plan and an understanding of what my army can and can't do. do I win everytime? hell no, but winning everytime is'nt that fun.We have an undefeated empire player in the club, he seems kinda bored and WANTS to be beaten(of course he ain't gonna just let ya do it), but it's still a blast to play against him(pun intended). bottom line, if you ain't having fun...take a stepback and see why. then come up with your solution.
anyway that's my two cents.


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## Arbite

Jack96 said:


> I'm gonna do demons
> here's an idea for a 3k list
> keeper of secrets lvl 4 100 pts of gifts (dunno what to give it)
> 2 heralds of slaanesh maxed out and 1 on a seeker
> skulltaker
> 30 demonettes with siren standard
> 30 demonettes
> 30 bloodletters with endless war standard
> 6 seekers
> 6 flamers
> 
> what do you think
> if anyone knows what to give my KoS please tell and say what the gifts do I don't have an armybook yet I was just lookin through the stores copy today


Get a book. Also, that army shouldn't be overly difficult to beat.


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## Azkaellon

Well for the record im going rid of my DoC armybook.....

Anyhow There is no "best" it all depends on your play style! Demons are a simple army so if you like playing simple tactics there perfect!!!

Mind you....Right now Warriors of chaos are flying off the shelfs.....


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## Tim/Steve

Not really surprising- and can be summed up by 3 of the units I was playing against last night: 30 warriors, 10 wide with MoN and frenzy banner. Valkier. 15 MoK knights.
Each is capable of just running forward and hitting something and almost everything will crumple under their attack. Very simple to understand, very simple to play with (and so enjoyable to make mincemeat of).


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## the-graven

Jack you know what you should do, pick an army whose playing style and look you like, and learn how to play it, you'll lose when you start the army, but when you get experience you'll learn how to use that army well and what you need to counter specific army lists


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## Darkblade

The best way to play a broken army, is to grab the nearest dwarven/lizzard/chaos/whatever army box, put the models together, then go grab a sledgehammer, smash the models, and put glue on them. There you go, broken army.

Or maybe, just maybe, you can try to play this game in a way that it´s made to be played...say...for fun....instead of trying to get a steamroller army build, wich frankly, still can get on his arse by bad dicerolling.


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## jigplums

empire, orcs and dwarfs all fair well with the new rules.


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## jigplums

Just a quick point here guys, Lots of you have said stuff like play for fun, or the way the game is supposed to be played etc... however to be fair who are you to dicate jacks hobby to him? so you guys like to play "for fun". not everyone does.

I'll use jezlad as an example. He plays competatively, with every game he does. He wants to win, and when we play he expects me to build the most powerful army i can and try to destroy him. Thats his hobby.

Now while i agree that its not just the army that dicates who wins but also what you do with it, saying stuff like Get a brain, or use tactics isn't really that helpful for him either is it? Also we can try to say that all armies are equal, but that simply isn't true. i think any army used right can compete, you need certain aspects for that elements in the army to do well.

If you have tricks you have that help you deal with uber units, then why not share? try to go into as much detail as possible so he can understand how he can use that in his games. 

So some questions i think will help?

What do you like your armies to have?
how many points do you want to build?
what are your favourite models?


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## the-graven

Jigplums your right, but all I've been saying is: Pick an army you like and try to counter those lists with that army, it's only a matter of time before you've learned how to counter and beat them, and after you beat them they'll try other lists to beat you, so pick an army you like, doesn't matter if you like it fluffwise,gamewise or modelwise and then find a way to counter them. One thing you have to remember too, don't expect to win all the time, the dice dictate anyways.


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## Putch.

Jigplums is right, but posting asking people to write you broken lists, or asking what the most powerful army is doesnt make much sense, even if most or some of us "play for fun" We cant tell him the most powerful army, a lot of people would say wood elves or ogres are weakest, but my friends wood elves roll me on a regular basis. The game is decided partly by skill, army, and army build and set up. But always by dice. So I am with The-graven on this one, pick an army you like, for whatever reason you like, and develop tactics and ideas on how to win. Dont just go from army to army because you think their an assured win. Because there will always be somone better than you, and you might get beaten with an army you consider crap. So pick an army, and learn to play it well, and you can beat anyone regardless of the army they chose.


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## Jack96

I've chosen demons but I've no idea how to counter any of his units


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## Masked Jackal

Jack96 said:


> I've chosen demons but I've no idea how to counter any of his units


Which is actually a lie. There are plenty of ways to counter units, especially those as lopsided and gimped as the ones you've described.


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## Jack96

Could you tell me how


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## Masked Jackal

Jack96 said:


> Could you tell me how


Lets use the Chaos Knights as an example, that large a unit is easily redirected by bait-and-flee tactics, and is quite vulnerable to the right shooting and spells. Cannons and bolt throwers will eat through that unit like nothing, and the Lore of Metal could easily kill 6-7 of those with a single spell. Seeing as how they'd have the numbers you posted, the warriors would have practically nothing else other than that unit, and you could redirect everything that is not geared to kill them against other stuff.


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## CaptainBudget

I may have missed something here, but I'm under the impression that the chaos army he's winging about has one large unit of knights, one large unit of warriors and a general.

I'd just like to say that if this is the case the army is illegal as it has to contain a minimum of three units plus the General.

Even then, just use a Daemon unit as a speedbump by forcing him to charge you (if memory serves they no longer have instability, but even if they do it isn't that much of a problem), then in your turn flank him with another ranked up unit. You win on combat res (3 ranks, banner, kills to his banner and kills; though throwing a character into one of these units will help no end), and he isn't stubborn. Repeat on his warriors. Done. 

Throw lots of magic at the unit as Masked Jackal said (the right spell such as lore of metal or a big "characteristic test or die" spell that targets everyone in the unit will do serious damage and are quite easy to come by. I don't know what lores Daemons can use but you can undoubtedly do some serious damage if you look hard enough.


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## Jack96

He has several large units of warriors and kairos fateweaver can take any 2 lores and knows all spells in lore of tzeentch I'll be taking lore of slaanesh cause I've taken kos


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## Tim/Steve

Jack96 said:


> He has several large units of warriors and kairos fateweaver


No he doesnt. WoC and DoC are different armies and cannot be played in 1 army unless its as part of a doubles game.
Anyway, if he did take kairos just take a KoS/HoS with siren song and laugh as one of the worst combat units in the game is forced to charge you (although kairos now gets a thunderstomp... so not as bad as he was).


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## Cheese meister

and can just go oh well here we go i'm a dragon who is i10 and ws10 munch bye keeper of secrets nicce knowing you


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## Skartooth

If your mate is smashing you week after week with the same cheesy list. Tell him to stop, if he doesn't then I would stop playing him. It shouldn't come to the point where you are both of you are trying to find the cheesiest combo's to beat each other. That just makes the whole game a lot more competitive and cut throat, could lead to arguments etc..

Skar


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## the-graven

Tim/Steve said:


> No he doesnt. WoC and DoC are different armies and cannot be played in 1 army unless its as part of a doubles game.
> Anyway, if he did take kairos just take a KoS/HoS with siren song and laugh as one of the worst combat units in the game is forced to charge you (although kairos now gets a thunderstomp... so not as bad as he was).


T/S I think he meant his opponent has a big unit of warriors and his own(jacks) Kairos can only take two lores, not that his opponent is using an WoC+DoC mix.


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## Cheese meister

no kairos has every tzeentch spell and 1 spell from each lore at +6 to casting attempts and re-roll a d6 every player turn and can generate extra dice


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## Jack96

He generates extra dice that's broken I might take him and blue scribes


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## Calamari

Jack96 said:


> Then what army should I start I don't care about the look or feel of the army as long as it isn't horde (they take ages to pack away) I just want an incredibly broken list





Jack96 said:


> If I can stop enemy magic and shoot them to bits then I guess I might start dwarves does anyone have any broken armylists for dwarfs against 1+ and 3+ armour chaos





Jack96 said:


> I rarel paint rob1981 except for my necrons but I plan on painting everything as I get it with my new army
> everyone I play with has a broken list (archaon and 30/40 chaos knights in 3k and kurt helborg AND karl franz in the same unit of inner circle knights) I never stand a chance against them but I want that to change
> how bent is the dwarf king and what does he do





Jack96 said:


> I won't be able to cheese out on my lizardmen as I am selling them along with my wood elves so i can have money to start dwarves and emperrors children for 40k
> I don't want to buy dwarves till I see a broken thorgrim grudgbearer list so I know what to buy





Jack96 said:


> He generates extra dice that's broken I might take him and blue scribes


Please, for everyone's sanity please stop saying "broken". "Broken" implies some kind of rediculous advantage or rules abuse that comes from poor writing or some such. Activley seeking out "broken" things makes you sound like an arsehole.

Instead, use other words like "competative", "good" and "the muts nuts" among others. These words have the meaning it seems you are trying to convey.


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## jigplums

Masked Jackal said:


> Which is actually a lie. There are plenty of ways to counter units, especially those as lopsided and gimped as the ones you've described.


he said he doesn't know how to counter the units. Can you please read the post your going to reply too first.

You still haven't explained how. You said you can bait them, but not explained how he should do it. Then listed things that are not in the army he's chosen and said how easily that would deal with it.

It would be a lot more useful for jack if you told him how you would do it with a daemons of chaos army, what units you would use and how you would set it up.
if you dont know daemons that well then maybe the same thing but how you would do the same tactic with your army, excluding wherever possible things that his DOC cannot possibly replicate, i.e. cannons and bolt throwers


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## the-graven

For baiting, use cheap expendable units.
Is that good enough for you jigplums/jack


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## the-graven

Calamari said:


> Please, for everyone's sanity please stop saying "broken". "Broken" implies some kind of rediculous advantage or rules abuse that comes from poor writing or some such. Activley seeking out "broken" things makes you sound like an arsehole.
> 
> Instead, use other words like "competative", "good" and "the muts nuts" among others. These words have the meaning it seems you are trying to convey.


I agree with calamari, use these words, you look nicer that way, though I still don't know what "the muts nuts" is.


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## the-graven

Cheese meister said:


> no kairos has every tzeentch spell and 1 spell from each lore at +6 to casting attempts and re-roll a d6 every player turn and can generate extra dice


I know that, all I was saying si that T/S was misintrepretating jacks quote.
Okay, I'm sure I spelled that word wrong, how do I spell that:wacko:


EDIT: That was three quotes in one go, I'm tired where's my coffee


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