# Orc Big 'Uns AHW or HW&S



## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

So I will be tkaing part in a campaign that is being run in my Local GW and have been play testing my 1k list.

This is where I get a little stuck, I'm running 24 Big 'Uns with the +1 Leadership banner. I have tried the AHW option which was fantastic the amount of S5/4 hits that the unit pumped out was awesome but ultimately the unit got whittled down in pretty much all the games.

So I figured I'd try the HW&S option which increaded the survivorbility of the unit but sucked out a fair bit of the punch and I needed to support the unit much more (flank charges with 5 Wold Riders in the end) 

The other option that I am playing with at the moment is to drop the idea of Big Uns completely and using the points from the Banner and the Big Un upgrade to get more boyz.

What does Heresy recommend?


----------



## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

The big uns upgrade in the new book is too cost efficient (+1S and +1 WS from initial S3 and WS3 often significantly increases the hit rate and wound rate and can often reduce the rate of getting hit) to ignore most of the time and you get the most bang for the buck with it by having an AHW most of the time because it doubles the value of the upgraded attacks in the front rank. But the big uns upgrade is most efficient for savage orcs because they get a 6+ ward save and extra attacks with frenzy. Savage orcs are the most points efficient core unit of orcs. If you want a tar pit, then night goblins with nets and shields are most efficient. 

There is always a debate between more protection and more killy, but generally the rule in 8th edition is to maximize the ability to kill. For example, chaos marauders with great weapons are superior to HW/S as long as enough models are run in the unit to survive after the enemy strikes first. Similarly, a grave guard unit whit GW is superior to with hand weapon/S but you have to run the unit a lot larger to be effective precisely because it is less resiliant and striking last. If you are going to run a unit smaller with characters, then marauders with MoTz and HW/SH makes more sense and the same is true with HW/SH for grave guard. The same rule appllies to ordinary orcs. If your unit is getting whittled down, then you are matching it up with something superior such that you need to increase the size of the unit, figure out how to deploy and move to obtain more favourable matchup, or accept that the unit needs to kill enough to make back its points before it dies (including so weakening a superior unit so as to allow additional units in your army to ultimately finish off that unit).


----------



## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

Well in that case I'll just keep the AHW option and focus on getting off Sneaky Stabbing on something and getting that in the flank or S5/4 Armour Piercing for those pesky Chaos Warriors

. The movement and positioning isn't really that much of an issue it tends to be the units that get thrown out at 1k that leave me a little confused.


----------



## nandron (Feb 27, 2012)

Would you consider a mangler squig or 2 or a 20 man unit of N.gobs with 2 fanatics. Both options come to 120 points and whittle down Chaos warriors very nicely. Enough that your Big Uns will be able to deal with the survivors. I used 2 mangler squigs in a 1000 point campaign recently and they were so nasty almost the first thing my opponents tried to do was kill them. At a 1000 points you face limited magic and shooting which makes them more survivable and they block enemy charge lanes etc... Just a thought.


----------

