# Thoughts on taking a predator



## Erich (Sep 1, 2008)

I'm putting my first SM army together and was wondering if it was absolutly neccesary to take a predator or some othe form of armor for a general list.
Also, what is the general thinking on rhinos or other transport units.

Thanks
-Erich


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Taking at least a few transports for your army is usually considered a must for a competitive force, as the extra movement and protection they offer is usually pretty good. With how cheap they are points wise, rhinos or razorback are awesome. The only down side is that they are an easy kill point in annihilation missions, but even this isn't such a huge draw back, considering their worth. 

Aside from this, Armour is not considered a must, but the right pieces can really help improve your armies killiness. A predator destroyer (Pred with all Las cannons) is great for taking out enemy armour, but most people prefer a vindicator for an all rounder, which can do massive amounts of damage to both vehicles and can wipe out infantry with its powerful blast. 

Having a couple of pieces of armour (like a dreadnought and a pred/vindicator) can also help if you have a lot of transports, as the enemies heavy weapons will be focusing on these, and maybe letting your transports live a little longer.

Anyway, hope that helps a bit!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

maddermax pretty much nailed it. There's a reason he was awarded the Crest of the Wise, after all. 

In most Space Marine armies, you're going to want to take a transport for every Tactical Squad. Rhino or Razorback, it doesn't really matter which, though I personally prefer Rhinos since they can fit an entire squad.

As for Predators, it's certainly not absolutely necessary to take them in a successful Marine army. Predator Destructors with lascannon sponsons are excellent at knocking out light and medium vehicles (particularly transports like Rhinos, Devilfish and Wave Serpents), but Land Speeder Typhoons can do the same job almost as well for less points since two krak missiles will generally ruin most vehicle's day.

Again as maddermax said, having more pieces of armor on the field than just your transports will increase the life expectancy of your transport vehicles tremendously. Many players feel more threatened by a Dreadnought with a twin-linked lascannon than a Rhino, for example. A thunderfire cannon is also a marvelous way to draw fire from other parts of your army as the cannon usually only needs to fire once to get your opponent's attention.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

I don't play SM, but that is pretty much all I have played against and as a tyranid player, here is my list of horror:

Twin-linked lasers on razorbacks (At their cost, there are few things I hate running against more)
Vindicators (that 24" blast sucks!)
Thunderfire cannon (this one is absurd at its cost because it comes with a tech that can upgrade one piece of cover by plus one and once it dies, you have a tech to help repair your armor.)
Ironclad Dreadnaught in a droppod!!! (My latest, greatest nightmare. I have lost some of my best placed units due to it)


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## ModoX (Oct 20, 2008)

Just wanted to throw in some thoughts on the Predator...

The all lascannon pred is decent, but as has been hinted at (though not strongly enough I feel), there are much better anti-tank options for SM players. I personally run three multi-melta attack bikes, which are cheap, fast and deadly to any armour, even AV14. Another similar option is landspeeders with multi-melta and heavy flamer, which are a little more expensive and arguably not actually as durable (what with the bikes being toughness 5 and getting a 3+ cover save from turbo boosting), but can deep strike, ignore terrain that can potentially knock bikes out and have the heavy flamer for when they run out of armour to kill (if they last that long).

Anyway, now to actually talk about the Predator. I personally rule out the use of the lascannon version due to the above, but by taking the standard tank with the heavy bolter sponsons you get an 85 point durable tank which is a formidable anti-infantry weapon. Don't worry about the weapons only being AP4, volume of fire is more important when taking down heavily armoured infantry. Just keep an eye on side/rear shots, melta weapons and power fists and these should perform well for you.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

what about having the twin linked lascannon turret gun with heavy bolter side guns?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Fallen said:


> what about having the twin linked lascannon turret gun with heavy bolter side guns?


Not really worth the points in my opinion.

Heavy bolters really don't do anything against vehicles that the lascannon will want to target and the lascannon isn't really very effective against the kinds of units that the heavy bolters excel against. A large mob of Orks really won't be too bothered by the lascannon shot, whereas a Hammerhead can laugh off the heavy bolters. Much better to go with an autocannon turret and lascannon sponsons since both weapons can engage similar targets (vehicles with an AV of 12 or less is perfect, though the lascannons can make attempts at AV 13 and 14).


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Waste of points, anything the Lascannon wants to shoot, the Bolters can't hurt. Anything you're pointing Bolters at probably doesn't need a Lascannon shot.

A S7 Autocannon and 2x S9 Lascannon go hand in hand quite nicely though.

My question would be: Are you using your Heavy Support slots right now? If not, add in 2-3 Dakka Predators. AV13 with 8 shots each is fine against Demon Princes and Hordes alike.


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## Raptors8th (Jul 3, 2009)

Okay, what do you want your pread to do, and what else are you using? The best preads are generally the Dakka pread discussed above and the transport killer (autocannon and las sponsons). Whatever you take, leave the TL las at home, it's not worth 45 points more than the autocannon. As for how to use it, preads are generally best agains light armour (i.e. transports and fast vehicles) and MCs. Dakka pread is okay against hordes, but vindis are better. And meltas should be taking down the enemies heavy armour, not lascannons.


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## ModoX (Oct 20, 2008)

I don't think it's necessary to rule out the TL Lascannon and HB sponsons because they give you a multi-tasking tank. Some people don't like to work that way, but it could work for others. What would stop me taking it is more the simple fact that, as Raptors8th said, the TL Lascannon is too expensive when compared to other anti-tank options in the codex.


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## moshpiler (Apr 16, 2009)

i'm sorry but who in their right mind would take lascannon sponsons at that price. most people cry about how expensive they are in devestator squads. on the other hand the HB ones, in my opinion, are absolutely fine.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

moshpiler said:


> i'm sorry but who in their right mind would take lascannon sponsons at that price. most people cry about how expensive they are in devestator squads. on the other hand the HB ones, in my opinion, are absolutely fine.


Erm, because heavy bolter sponsons don't do anything to vehicles. Have people forgotten that 5th is Mech-Edition, or are there that many people that are still playing lists that made sense in 4th? :no:


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## Annabelle (Nov 24, 2008)

I hate playing against the autocannon heavy bolter pred. It can ruin my infantry, transports and MCs. The cheap price allows for more options elsewhere. My thousand sons army sometimes uses one with the same setup + a havoc launcher. Fire this at a rhino and its at least stunned. With the new nid codex out soon it may be seeing more use.


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

i run my space marines without any vehicles other than a dreadnought, ive only lost 1 out of 6 games with the list im using , so you dont need tanks although they do look and work great , theyre generally expensive for space marines


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Kale Hellas said:


> i run my space marines without any vehicles other than a dreadnought, ive only lost 1 out of 6 games with the list im using , so you dont need tanks although they do look and work great , theyre generally expensive for space marines


Rhinos, Razorbacks, Drop Pods and Predators aren't really very expensive. Hell, neither is the Whirlwind or Vindicator. The only _expensive_ vehicle the Marines have is the Land Raider, but it's priced so high for good reason.

As for you winning so many of your games, congrats. :good: Your list must be geared toward anti-tank, or your local metagame doesn't punish infantry heavy armies. Either way, it's good news for you.


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## moshpiler (Apr 16, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Erm, because heavy bolter sponsons don't do anything to vehicles. Have people forgotten that 5th is Mech-Edition, or are there that many people that are still playing lists that made sense in 4th? :no:


okay, I'm not the best at tactics (or even close) but why can't you just get lascannons in tac squads? most people have told me that lascannons are a waste on devestator squads so why get them for the same price on a pred? and anyway with the vast multitued of meltas and powerfists available to SM, i ask, why?


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

moshpiler said:


> okay, I'm not the best at tactics (or even close) but why can't you just get lascannons in tac squads? most people have told me that lascannons are a waste on devestator squads so why get them for the same price on a pred? and anyway with the vast multitued of meltas and powerfists available to SM, i ask, why?


A Combat Squad w Lascannon sitting on a Objective is one good way of getting a LC into SM armies, the other would probably be Razorbacks imho, and see below...


Regarding the Predators Id say that the TLLC turret is way over the top expensive. You keep the Autocannon and basically decide the role for the Pred with the choice of Sponsons. Heavy Bolters are cheaper and will designate it into inf-mower whilst the Lascannon gives the "good old setup" which is brilliant against all but the heaviest of vehicles (though its still a threat against them too)


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

moshpiler said:


> okay, I'm not the best at tactics (or even close) but why can't you just get lascannons in tac squads? most people have told me that lascannons are a waste on devestator squads so why get them for the same price on a pred? and anyway with the vast multitued of meltas and powerfists available to SM, i ask, why?


Because you generally want your Tactical Squads to be moving around, capturing objectives and engaging enemy troops up close with their bolters. It's possible to Combat Squad and leave a small unit with a lascannon in your deployment zone, but that tends to make both halves easier to destroy than if they'd stayed together. There have been a lot of discussions in the Tactics and Army List sections on the merits of Combat Squads though, so I won't go too far into it here. If you're interested, check out those sections.


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