# Insane Artillery



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Dwarfs - everyone knows how powerful Engineer Cannons are these days, and I rarely play a list that doesn't include one.

However, this morning I played a 2.8K List, versus my Warriors - and it contained 2 Master Engineers, and 3 Grudge Throwers - each grudge thrower having 2 Runes of Penetration - 2 were Entrenched, 1 with the Hard Cover Rune, 1 with Accuracy, and the other with Flaming Rune. That's 3, yes 3, rare misfire Artillery, S5 Blasts.

Throw in a BSB with a MRoValaya and 2 Magic Resistance Runes, 2 Runelords, 1 with MRoBalance, 1 with MRoSpellbinding (both of these were with a Grudge Thrower), and a huge blob of Longbeards, along with lose change of units (Warriors, Anti-flyer bolt throwers etc) to make it legal.

Also, placing Runelords with Entrenched artillery is absolutely insane - they're T7 against enemy shooting, with a -2 to hit. In combat, against Artillery hunters, due to the 100mm base size for the 5, typical war machine hunters are looking at being inable to cause 7 wounds in one phase (5 fast Cavalry have 10 attacks usually), and due to taking a Great Weapon, can lay on some damage in return - particularly if you plonk on some weapon runes.

With the flaming rune as well, and the FAQ clarification, they cause Fear in Cavalry.

So, while it's a case of the combination - on the front, you're looking at a 3 150 odd point pieces of artillery, placing S5(10) templates, basically, one of which is super accurate.

And then throw in the Engineer Bolt Throwers, and you can take down enemy monsters and smash through units - and like said, with a huge point denial unit of Longbeards (with +5 to dispel, and MR(5)), they are maddening.


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## CoNnZ (Mar 28, 2009)

I presume the dwarf guy has no friends. Why people play like that is beyond me. Is your whole post what he bought or simply all the cheesy things us dwarfs can do?
Try going against an empire gunline, they are many times worse


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

That's the thing though - they're not. They can have more - but the best artillery available to Empire is a Great Cannon or Helstorm - Engineer's + Runes on Dwarven Artillery, with a points denial unit is extremely powerful - and the only thing that that army lacks in Lore of Metal/Life.

To be fair, I was using my own Try hard Valkia Troll List, so it was seeing how well we went. It would have been much worse if I took Warriors.


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## Flem (Feb 11, 2011)

Seems like you got screwed over to me mate.
1) Max MR is 3, so MR 5?
2) The Basic rulebook states Char's can't join warmachine crew unless stated other wise. I don't have a dwarf armybook but id seems strange for runesmiths to be able of joining them.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

yep, dwarfs are pretty downright goofy with their power builds... very few armies can compete against them - perhaps tzeentch/khorne daemons and of corse the slaan power builds.
and yet, despite the sheer nonsense dwarfs can come up with, everyone still rags on VC's as being the dirtiest army...*sigh*

i'd never play against such a list as it isn't fun, and it's not a game. just the other guy throwing dice and me removing chunks of my army from the table.
the real problem with warhammer (and 40k for that matter) are the players themselves... if people would stop being douchbags to eachother, then we'd all have fun! (but alas, people in general are dicks who only want to lord it over the other guy...)

cheers!


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## Durzod (Nov 24, 2009)

Not even dwarf characters can join warmachines, according to the rules and FAQ. The only thing they can do is add a generic engineer (and thus a wound) to the crew. The Master engineers add their bonuses if within 3". Runesmiths don't add anything to a unit within 3". they have to join. Give your buddy a copy of the FAQ, he obviously hasn't read it!


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Neither have I, bugger.


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## Snuffy (Mar 18, 2011)

It really doesn't sound that hard to deal with. You are basically talking about 3 very nasty stone throwers. If you take into account that those 3 stone throwers are both his artillery and his magic phase 3 S5 templates isn't that crazy. Although you cant dispel his shots, you can tie-up or kill the machines much easier than hunting a wizard. As for the point denial Longbeards, you can take care of that just like any other large group. Dwarves aren't even especially good as large point denial groups. 

It is more likely that this army set up is just especially good and kicking the crap out of your army setup. Instead of crying unbalance, try to find new tactics.

I am only some what familiar with warriors, but cant you field large groups of marauders with great weapons ? With their big base, he can only get 9 hits per stone thrower. Take a horde or 2 of those and you should have fun beating up his longbeards. From what you said, he is spending about 500-600 points on anti magic and about 500 on the stone throwers. Don't give him any large blocks of expensive troops to shoot at and leave the wizards behind. You will have beaten half his army before you even deploy.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Hi welcome to Heresy.

Thanks for some of the tips.

Much of it's been debunked in any case - but firstly - Dwarves don't have magic, and trust me; being on the recieving end of 3 S5 templates is honking filthy. Against a competent player, you won't be able to tie up Stone Throwers etc.

Neither is it often their entire set of war machines or ranged troops. 

Next - explain to me where I "cried unbalance". 

Secondly - If I took large groups of Marauders, that would be completely taking away the purpose of taking a Valkia Troll army, no? And no, they wouldn't have fun beating up Longbeards. Longbeards eat them for breakfast. You're advocating also sending T3 versus S5 war machines? Really? Even with Chaos Warriors, (with 4++ Wards, you're going to be losing a shag load of troops).

I don't know if you've played 8th edition, but MSU doesn't work for combat troops. Neither will taking MSU protect me from artillery being able to take out often the same amount of troops.

As to leaving the wizards behind, the only one I ever take is a L2 with Puppet - there's no room for them otherwise. I'm not about to start tailoring lists either.

And big 60 wound blocks of trolls with Mutant Regen is nice to soak up the wounds from the Artillery. It came down to the army just being superior. WoC struggle against Dwarves in any case. And points denial blocks are just the way to go. I don't know if you've ever had to fight your way through about 1200pts of Dwarf Longbeards, but the only way to counter them is by taking other 1200pt+ units - which in a standard list, noone does. 

1200pts tied up in one unit when they're as decent at combat as Dwarves (T4, 4+/6++ at their cost is NICE, and due to the combat rules - can actually deal damage back out).


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## Xela (Dec 22, 2010)

Oh good, someone revived the thread, so if the characters couldn't join the warmachines how much easier would the gunline have been to fight?


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## Snuffy (Mar 18, 2011)

Vaz,

I realize dwarves don't have magic. What I was saying is that 3 s5 templates is the total output of damage for both the artillery and magic phase. An amount that is not what I would call "insane"

I know this is not the limit of war machines a dwarf army can play, but in your scenario it seemed to be. 3 stonethrowers, a large block of longbeards and a boatload of anti magic. Perhaps some bolt throwers. 

Although you didn't specifically cry unbalance, I took it from several aspects of the post. The title "Insane Artillery", and how you felt it was "maddening". 

I am not specifically advocating MSU here. I play dwarves, and recently had an interesting experience dealing with 40 marauders with GW. With the large base size and low point cost it was unproductive to hit them with stone throwers. The marrauders pack enough punch to be a bother. 

As for the wizard, good on you. It looks like all those points he spent on anti magic were wasted, and instead of being a hindrance to you, it should be listed as a bonus. 

As for 1200 points of Longbeards, I think there are many other ways to deal with it than just matching it up with the same point value unit. A slann could likely push through even the dwarf anti magic, or multi salamander it down. Dwarfs can just use 3 s5 stone throwers . Scaven are full of good ways, weapon teams come to mind. 

As for the trolls being a good way to soak up artillery hits, I am not sure what you are saying. I was under the impression that the point of this post was to talk about how they didn't work.


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

As a dwarf player I would never take this list as it's broing and lame. I wouldn't worry too much as three grudge throwers aren't amazing as in reality they go all over the place.


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