# What happend to the old school?



## DivineArchitect (Mar 24, 2011)

Hey people just throwing out my two cents, iv been reading alot of stuff about how the new codex are just terrible...and now during a late night bit of shopping i find this.....http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod1140066a

i mean are you really supposed to field this little F*cker in game? what happend to old school gothic, gritty look of 40k? 
am i the only one who feels as though whoevers working for GW is butching the game?


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Use a better model; perhaps a Servitor with an array of weapons? Nobody's forcing you to play ginger inbred/bristolian/orang utan.


----------



## DivineArchitect (Mar 24, 2011)

Haha well put. gota love the adeptus mechanicus just wish there were a few more models for em..but then again i do feel a conversion coming on..


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

DivineArchitect said:


> Hey people just throwing out my two cents, iv been reading alot of stuff about how the new codex are just terrible...and now during a late night bit of shopping i find this.....http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod1140066a
> 
> i mean are you really supposed to field this little F*cker in game? what happend to old school gothic, gritty look of 40k?
> am i the only one who feels as though whoevers working for GW is butching the game?


well the model in question is about as old school as 40k gets, that model's history goes right back to the invention of the game and "gothic" and "gritty" is the look of the imperium not 40k


----------



## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Even I gotta admit I'm baffled by that thing- it looks like some unit in the Tau army that even Tau fans would dislike.


----------



## eyescrossed (Mar 31, 2011)

I think the crux of the problem is Matt Ward. Some people like his books but the majority don't. I'm in the majority, to be honest. 

He adds Mary Sue characters to every Codex he writes, he broke 7th edition Fantasy when he wrote the Daemon book because "it would be a shame if they weren't more powerful than the other races" (what he actually said), has a hard-on for Ultramarines and added "Blood" to nearly _every single_ unit or wargear option in the Blood Angels Codex that didn't previously have it.

On the other hand, the Space Wolves codex had a fair bit of that going too... Although I really hope Ward doesn't end up writing a combined Space Marine 'dex for 6th edition with a new character, Awesomedude Magmajizz riding his trusty Nemesis Doom Wolf and wielding the Sword of Thunder Blood.

But I'm just a bitter veteran I guess


----------



## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

eyescrossed said:


> Although I really hope Ward doesn't end up writing a combined Space Marine 'dex for 6th edition with a new character, Awesomedude Magmajizz riding his trusty Nemesis Doom Wolf and wielding the Sword of Thunder Blood.


:laugh:
Ill throw out a couple of rep for that.


----------



## eyescrossed (Mar 31, 2011)

KingOfCheese said:


> :laugh:
> Ill throw out a couple of rep for that.


Sweet, thanks :biggrin:


----------



## Lucius Vane (Jan 21, 2008)

As a Dark Angels fan boy, allow me to say that when I go to bed, I have nightmares about what my chapter will look like after Ward inevitably gets his hands on it.

Darksoul Shadowblade, Supreme, SUPREME Grand Master of the Unforgiven chapters with his master-crafted S10 Dark Blade that makes him hit as a monstrous creature and his twin-linked plasma gun, riding his giant Shadow Bat. He will kill Cypher in the first paragraph of his fluff entry.:suicide:


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

I've heard a lot of people talking about using some of the Karman from AT-43 by Rackham Games as alternatives to the GW produced Jokaero Weaponsmith model. They're more gorilla based, but they do look WAY better than the GW version!


----------



## eyescrossed (Mar 31, 2011)

Those. Are. AWESOME!


----------



## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Yep, they are.

Some aussie retailers might still have some stock of the monkeyboys (MilSims might just have a small amount left).

They were shedding AT-43 stock at $5-10 per unit box in January. Boxes that were $45 not so long before.


----------



## wombat_tree (Nov 30, 2008)

Uber Ork said:


> They're more gorilla based, but they do look WAY better than the GW version!


Am I the only one that thinks those gorilla things look even stupider than the Games Workshop model?


----------



## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

wombat_tree said:


> Am I the only one that thinks those gorilla things look even stupider than the Games Workshop model?


They certainly do not capture the Jokearo as incomprehensible tinkerers; those gorillas (whilst possibly less comical) look like extremely easy to understand.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

It really like this AT-43 models, just a shame Rackham died really.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

No, no you're not.


----------



## ShadowMatt (Sep 9, 2008)

Given that Space Marines are pretty much forbidden from fraternizing with aliens or using alien tech, how does this guy fit in?


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

ShadowMatt said:


> Given that Space Marines are pretty much forbidden from fraternizing with aliens or using alien tech, how does this guy fit in?


Ah you see the Imperium is a funny place. The Imperium don't consider the Jokareo to be strictly sentient. So they're more like pets than some Xeno species. Who decides this? Inquisitors! Who disagree with Inquisitors? Heretics!

It's why they can cruise around with Daemonhosts etc.


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

If the Inquisition had a motto it would be "Do as I say, not as I do!"

Pet monkeys that can assemble a Lascannon in 30 seconds from a dead servitor and a Chimera's porta-potty are nothing compared to Sentient Daemon Weapons, Unregulated Psykers and Daemonhosts.

I do agree that the Jokaero model looks like shit and Matt Ward really needs to stop renaming everything in a codex though. Just say "Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon" instead of "Nemesis Doom Fist". Please? It's not cool, not clever, and just gets in the way of clear rules writing.


----------



## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

How does it fit in?

The same way Daemonhosts fit in with Ordo Malleus. 

Radicals.

There is an Ordo XENOS radical Inquisitor character in the book. This is your fluff justification.

They will use Xenos races and tech in order to defeat them, but like the Malleus, it's a slippery slope. One minute you're using xenos tech, the next you're a collaborating heretic.


----------



## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Sethis said:


> Matt Ward really needs to stop renaming everything in a codex though. Just say "Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon" instead of "Nemesis Doom Fist". Please? It's not cool, not clever, and just gets in the way of clear rules writing.


Except that the Nemesis Doom Fist isn't just a DCCW- it is also a force weapon and has daemonbane. So it does deserve it's own name- it is a different weapon in its own right.

Bloodfists on the other hand...


----------



## DivineArchitect (Mar 24, 2011)

eyescrossed said:


> , Awesomedude Magmajizz riding his trusty Nemesis Doom Wolf and wielding the Sword of Thunder Blood.
> 
> But I'm just a bitter veteran I guess


hahahaha yes + rep indeed

yea i stopped playing this about 8 years ago and have recently got back into it...lets just say i feel like writing a very very angry letter asking were my beloved has gone.


----------



## Biellann (Sep 6, 2010)

DivineArchitect said:


> .lets just say i feel like writing a very very angry letter asking were my beloved has gone.


Oh where oh were could my baby be
Matt Ward took her away from me...


The Jokaero isn't crap IMO, but it could be better/less static looking.


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

yeah....Nemesis Doom fist....

That's somehow...a little juvenile.

maybe?


----------



## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

Biellann said:


> Oh where oh were could my baby be
> Matt Ward took her away from me...
> 
> 
> The Jokaero isn't crap IMO, but it could be better/less static looking.


matt ward: writer, baby stealer


----------



## Biellann (Sep 6, 2010)

Looking at this image makes the Jokaero seem a bit better. The side shot on GW's site is just crap:










Also: Baby as in wife/gf.


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Biellann said:


> Looking at this image makes the Jokaero seem a bit better. The side shot on GW's site is just crap:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting... this particular shot *does* make him look better. Ok, so as long as you always observe a Jokaero from this angle it looks half way decent. Other than that... I'll chalk this sculpt (along with pink horrors and a few other newly created models) as sculpts that should have never made it past quality control...




.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Just incase people were confused Matt Ward has nothing to do with the Jokareo really, they were already an established thing in the canon of 40K. He just gave them rules.


----------



## turel2 (Mar 2, 2009)

Codex: Jokaero will hit the shelves shortly.

The fluff will include the necrons and the Jokaero creating a hybrid Robomonkey. The Robomonkey then brings the emperor and the Primarchs back to life.


----------



## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Beware the Doom of the Eldar, the Robo-Mon-keigh!


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> Just incase people were confused Matt Ward has nothing to do with the Jokareo really, they were already an established thing in the canon of 40K. He just gave them rules.


Correct. They can trace their roots back to the original Rogue Trader days which I'm sure would have been when Matt was a wee lad. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Jokaero

Still... it's a wonder why anyone at GW _*ever*_ thought space Orangutans were a good idea. Right, cause nothing says technological micro-sized super weapon specialist like an orangutan...












You know... seeing the Jokaero model reminds me of how I felt the first time I saw Jar Jar Binks...










Why George Lucas? ...why?




.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Uber Ork said:


> Correct. They can trace their roots back to the original Rogue Trader days which I'm sure would have been when Matt was a wee lad. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Jokaero
> 
> Still... it's a wonder why anyone at GW _*ever*_ thought space Orangutans were a good idea. Right, cause nothing says technological micro-sized super weapon specialist like an orangutan...


----------



## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

Uber Ork said:


> .


This would make a better basis for the model....hmm i think you could use the artillery wheels for the front wheel and maybe small track wheels for the rear ones...


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Or this guy... He just looks like he's up to something. 

Like... if you reach for his tomato, he's gonna blast you with a digital super laser. 





.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i really cant understand the anti jokero sentiment, its a well established fluffy alien creature and they bothered to make a model and include it in the army list, you dont have to field it, but its nice to have the option and a model to do it with from the off, its nice to see something that adds variety and shows that the imperium and 40kverse isnt just full of humans. More power to GW and more of the same please, they should get those concept artists and model designers working over time on producing more alien stuff so the balance is atleast 70/30 in favour of alien/chaos vs imperium armies


----------



## Ninjurai (Mar 31, 2010)

you could always go with this...

http://www.x-entertainment.com/updates/pics/congo13/2.jpg


----------



## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

If i ever see one of those space monkeys on the table against me, screw winning im sending everything i have against it regardless of the cost that monkey is dieing!!! (I hate monkeys if you can't tell) Also im afraid to ask where its plasma gun vents....


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

(i think I said this before)
So if he is bad do the GK spank him. Do th GK spank the monkey!!!

Really I see nothing wrong with the inclusion of these lil guys but I still think the whole digital weapon thing is a lil far fetched with shooting las shots and what not. Sure oblits do the same except the gun actually comes out of them and fires. Im sorry he's not a planeteer who points his damn ring and yells fire. 

So I wonder if you get 5 of them to fire at once can they summon the Emperor.


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

TheSpore said:


> So I wonder if you get 5 of them to fire at once can they summon the Emperor.


That'll be in 6th edition. :biggrin:





bitsandkits said:


> i really cant understand the anti jokero sentiment, its a well established fluffy alien creature and they bothered to make a model and include it in the army list, you dont have to field it, but its nice to have the option and a model to do it with from the off,


I think it's because the animal they chose. 

Sci-fi is rarely original and aliens are often portrayed as insectoid, avian, reptilian, aquatic, etc. The creators of sci-fi shows, movies, games, etc. know that we as humans have a tangible need to be able to relate to the sci-fi creatures we're watching/playing a game with. It has to be familiar enough for us to relate and connect to, yet foreign enough for us to believe it's alien. No one would watch a TV series about a family of gas clouds that use electric currents to communicate. We would soon tire of watching gas clouds float around with electric sparks passing between them because we just can't relate to that. I mean floating gas clouds with no dialog? How boring. We might watch it for a few minutes to see if anything interesting would happen, but then we would soon tire and change the channel. 

GW has done a good job of this in the past, of making something both different enough to be interesting, but familiar enough to be believable. In fact I like all the other aliens GW has populated the 40K universe with. For instance I think the avian Kroot are cool. They look cool and tough, and because of that you can take them seriously. Their form is humanoid and avian so we can relate to it (i.e. it makes sense in our minds), but they're different enough to be interesting. The same goes with the insectoid vespids, while not very useful in game terms, they still look pretty cool, etc. 

So it's not that GW borrowed from creatures we're familiar with on our planet to populate their universe with, as heck, nearly every single alien that ever populated the Star Trek universe was humanoid (Klingons, Romulans/Vulkans, Cardassians, Bajorans, Trill, Breen, Betazoid, Jem'hadar, etc.) and they were all _*for the most part*_ petty cool. 

This begs the question then... if all the other xenos/daemonic races in 40K (Tau, Eldar/DE, Orks, Necrons, all 4 flavors of chaos daemons, etc.) are pretty cool, why not the Jokaero? For me, it's because they chose a monkey... and not even a cool monkey like a gorilla, but an orangutan. 

This choice is a critical one. For instance, King Kong wouldn't be nearly as fierce if he would have been portrayed by a chimp. There's just no way that Bo Bo the circus chimp could be as intimidating as a giant multi-story gorilla. Even the name is important. "*King Kong*" sounds way more intimidating than "*Bo Bo*." All these choices come together to create believability.

Do you want me to be afraid of the creature? Then don't pattern it after animals that aren't terrifying. Do you want me (as in the case of the Jokaero) to believe this xenos to be extremely intelligent? Then base it off an earth creature that's extremely intelligent. This is why the Tau work. They're and altered humanoid. We know humans to be the most intelligent species on our planet. If you want to pull off intelligence, as with the Tau, then make them humanoid. 

Monkey's though? I mean, they're reasonably intelligent... They can solve simple problems, learn sign language, create and use simple tools, etc. but it's way too much of a stretch to believe they could make something so sophisticated as a digital weapon. To do this, GW would have needed to make them more humanoid than simian, but that's not what they did. The Jokaero sculpt looks almost 100% like an orangutan that someone put a fancy backpack and goggles on. 

Honestly, I have no problem with the other aspects of the Jokaero. The fact that they're technological wizards, masters of miniaturization technology, and skillful weapons specialists... even their name is fine, but you have to wrap that all in a package that I'm going to believe. 

I mean look at this...










How am I supposed to take the orangutan Jokaero seriously? Their actual sculpt, IMO, comes across terrible. It looks cute, friendly, and like a dressed up monkey I might see at the zoo... 










...at least make me believe the thing can create a ring that's as powerful as a las cannon. That's all I'm saying, and I mean no offense, but I think GW dropped the ball on this one. 






bitsandkits said:


> its nice to see something that adds variety and shows that the imperium and 40kverse isnt just full of humans. More power to GW and more of the same please, they should get those concept artists and model designers working over time on producing more alien stuff so the balance is atleast 70/30 in favour of alien/chaos vs imperium armies


I completely 100% agree with you on this. ...just not so much with space orangutans. :wink:











.


----------



## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Good logical argument there UberOrk.

I think the issue is that Jokearo are from the days of RT when half of the rule book was in jokes and puns; even the name could be an unsubtle hint. They are part of history and hence resurrectable but do not fit the new serious world view and updated moulding technology.

Back in RT, they were ideal for what they were; Orangutans are sort of goofy looking, so worked for the idiot-savant mad professor idiom.


----------



## gundamboy195 (Aug 17, 2010)

Lol!!!!!, i got one on order, planning on converting it into Dr Zeas


----------



## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

My point exactly. If they did Planet of the Jocaero sculpts, they'd fly off the shelves.

This one is interesting, though!

http://www.frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=36405

Ape Austin....a Simian Barely Alive...


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

i have nothing aginst the jokero but that its just a dumb lookin model IMO


----------



## Mick @ Liberro Games (Mar 25, 2011)

I like the little monkey guy, but I'm not sure he would be of much use in a game. Fun to paint though. Variety's the spice of life. There are plenty of minis out there that some may feel ridiculous in appearance. This little monkey might have something up his sleeve. Something other than bananas :grin:


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Like a lascannon he pops out of his finger.


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> Good logical argument there UberOrk.
> 
> I think the issue is that Jokearo are from the days of RT when half of the rule book was in jokes and puns; even the name could be an unsubtle hint. They are part of history and hence resurrectable but do not fit the new serious world view and updated moulding technology.
> 
> Back in RT, they were ideal for what they were; Orangutans are sort of goofy looking, so worked for the idiot-savant mad professor idiom.


I didn't get into the game until 2nd ed so i missed the RT days. Yes, now that you mention it, I can see the "Joke"-aro now. 

While I can appreciate that the species hails from a time of jokes and puns, 40K has come a long way since then. In the wake of the most recent releases... the hard as nails and heroic Space Wolves, the ravenous and implacable Tyranids, the valiant, righteous Blood Angels, the violent and ruthless Dark Eldar, and the _(for the most part)_ elite and lethal Grey Knights... the Jokearo model seems... well, a bit out of place.

For me, it's all in the model. They could have made the orangutan aspect more believable by giving us a little more of this...










instead of this...


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

I think when they sculpted the model they wanted to make them look intelligent rather than all muscle and full of brawn


----------



## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

Vaz said:


>


Is this the result of crossing the Jokaero with the Tit Slug?...


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

TheSpore said:


> I think when they sculpted the model they wanted to make them look intelligent rather than all muscle and full of brawn


Yes. I was more meaning an aggressive war pose, instead of a cute and cuddly pose. Something that makes you fear the Jokearo, not want to pet them.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Uber Ork said:


> Yes. I was more meaning an aggressive war pose, instead of a cute and cuddly pose. Something that makes you fear the Jokearo, not want to pet them


Isn't that kind of the point though? Not everything in the 40K universe is _angry vicious killer beast_. They aren't taken for their scary nature, or their ability to bite through solid metal, or ultimate cosmic psychic powers. They are a somewhat harmless but highly intelligent tech designer. They aren't meant to intimidate. 

If that is the tack people are taking, why aren't there complaints that the Inquisitorial scribe models don't look like they could garrot you with their pen fingers? Or that the Witch Hunter Medic isn't a psycho wielding a 6-foot syringe....?


----------



## Biellann (Sep 6, 2010)

SilverTabby said:


> Or that the Witch Hunter Medic isn't a psycho wielding a 6-foot syringe....?


I would totally buy that model.


----------



## liforrevenge (Oct 6, 2009)

I actually really like that model, not sure why. Guess I'm a minority


----------



## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

My demonhunters have allways been more of a dark mechanicus army. The jokaero will just be an alternative form of armed techpriest.


----------



## Ashkore08 (Feb 12, 2011)

The weaponsmith doesn't look all that bad. I mean, he could look aggressive if he wanted to, but being more intelligent was more important for him i suppose.

But the people who would field him in their armies are probably going to convert the shit out of it if they're not happy. So i mean, its all well and good saying the model could be better, but if youre not using a GK army, and dont plan to field weaponsmiths... stop complaining.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Uber Ork said:


> Yes. I was more meaning an aggressive war pose, instead of a cute and cuddly pose. Something that makes you fear the Jokearo, not want to pet them.


They're not something to fear though, they're basically harmless bumbling animals that will shoot at things you point them at. There is a reason they're WS1 you know.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Also, looking at the model, it would be a matter of a pea-sized ball of Green Stuff and half an hour's work to give him a ferocious face if you really _really_ felt he should be a fierce harmless techno-ape...


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

SilverTabby said:


> Also, looking at the model, it would be a matter of a pea-sized ball of Green Stuff and half an hour's work to give him a ferocious face if you really _really_ felt he should be a fierce harmless techno-ape...


I'm not sure "harmless" is the right word for a developer of ring sized weaponry as powerful as a las cannon, multi-melta, or Hv flamer, and (more importantly)... who's willing to use it in battle along side the radical, often hyper violent and warlike, inquisition. 

Shooting something that's 48" away from you is one thing I suppose. To scale that would be pretty far away, but being willing to incinerate your opponents, burning them alive right in front of you takes a certain... ferocity... don't you think. 





Aramoro said:


> They're not something to fear though, they're basically harmless bumbling animals that will shoot at things you point them at. There is a reason they're WS1 you know.


WS1 yes, but you're not using them for their CC abilities. BS3 says they're at least as practiced or efficient as any trained basic human where shooting is concerned. They're also as good a shot with their weapons as a trained Tau Fire Warrior is with his. The Tau, while being one WS better, are also not known for their CC abilities, yet I would hardly say they're harmless. 

It's interesting to note that the Tau are also technologically astute. Unlike the Jokearo however, the Tau scientists don't take the weapons they create and use them to kill people... rather they let the Fire cast do that.





*@ both SilverTabby and Aramoro*
- The model says friendly zoo ape.

- The fluff says they're "technosavants without peer" who if can be "lured into an inquisitor's service... will swiftly make it's mark on the retinue's weapons and wargear"

- The fact that they can be included on the tabletop, and actually fire the weapons they make, tells us they're anything but "harmless." Try telling that to your opponents after your Jokearo just finished shooting and killing part of their army. :laugh:


I mean no disrespect, but I think you guys are inserting things that aren't expressly mentioned in the fluff. 


Yes, their understanding and mastery over technology is "instinctive" and "impossible to predict," but that doesn't necessarily make them harmless. And yes, they aren't always focused entirely on war, but on sometimes purely aesthetic qualities. This lack of complete military focus frustrates the inquisition, but clearly their offensive and defensive capabilities for war are great enough for the inquisition to put up with it... and I can only assume for the Ordo Xenos to grant them some kind of protected status. 

Taking a look at the "Inconceivable Customization" chart. We see that only 1 result has no wartime application, 1 is a re-roll, and the other 4 are split evenly between offensive weapon upgrades and defensive protection. 

Now if that were it, and they just stood off at the rear and fixed/helped defend/improve equipment, etc. I might agree with you guys that they could be harmless. Many scientists might be in weapons development for the shear joy of discovery and creation, or for the Jokearo, because they really like tinkering and improving things. However... they don't _*just*_ tinker.

The problem with what you're saying, for me anyway, is that it's inconsistent with the "Jokearo Ingenuity" rule. They not only make weapons, they use them. They, not just someone else, shoot and kill the opponents of the inquisition. How does that make them harmless? 

Could they be tricked into service? Sure. Could they be coerced? Sure. The word "lured" is undefined. For all we know, the inquisition has their family imprisoned and is threatening to kill them unless the Jokareo fight for them. Who knows... it simply doesn't say.

What it does say though, is that they do fight, and they do kill. How can you equate that to them being harmless?



My fault with the model is that the sculpt depicts the Jokearo precisely as you guys describe them, harmless. Literally, the model looks like a gentle slightly dressed up zoo ape. This makes no sense to me. 

The entire theme of 40K, as summed up on the very cover of the BBB is, "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war." Not peace. Not "harmless." War. We play our games on the field of battle, not in the hallowed halls of diplomacy or within the creative lab of science, but on the table top. This is where the model is intended to be used. In war. The Jokearo fluff has them going to war. Has them willing to not only create deadly weapons, but willing to use them to kill the enemies of the Imperium. 

The sculpt, however, doesn't say any of those things. It doesn't (aside from maybe the backpack) even say anything about their techno-wizardry. It literally looks like something out of a simian psychologist's documentary on how we need to preserve the friendly and intelligent creatures (which I have no problem with by the way... I rather like orangutans). In the end, that makes absolutely no sense to me... 

The bottom line is this. 

How a model is sculpted should tell us about that models character, intent, abilities, etc. This is why orks, tyranids, and space wolves are often sculpted in dramatic aggressive posses, or why the tau have a clean and technologically advanced look. GW nails this 98% of the time, but the new Jokearo sculpt looks more like a common zoo ape with goggles and a funky backpack than technosavants capable of extreme destruction. 

It tells us nothing of how deadly they can be on the battlefield, or of how absolutely brilliant technologically they are, and to me... that's a shame. 







SilverTabby said:


> Also, looking at the model, it would be a matter of a pea-sized ball of Green Stuff and half an hour's work to give him a ferocious face...


While I appreciate your comment. Not everyone has the skills to sculpt and instead relies on GW's models _as is_ for their army. 

Again, the VAST majority of the time GW gets their models right. I could list off any number of amazing sculpts that come to mind. Truly, the number I find fault with is rather small. It just so happens... this is one of them. 







.


----------



## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

Going back to Dave T. Hobbit mentioning names in Rogue Trader being in jokes and puns, they are names after Peter Lorre's character in the film "The Maltese Falcon"...
Joe Cairo.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

OK, how about this one then. A super-computer nerd who lives in a dark basement surrounded by computers and drinking nothing but pepsi all day has developed the galaxy's most virulent computer virus, that can stop all necrons and other mechanicals in their tracks. However, that virus needs to be delivered within 20ft of the target, and only the nerd has the know-how to make it work correctly. So, that nerd agrees to accompany a warband to deliver said virus on the battlefield. 

Now, would an appropriate model for that nerd be:
a) A catachan jungle fighter with the massively over-done bulging biceps,
b) a fierce and determined Inquisitorial stormtrooper, or
c) a thin short guy in glasses wielding a laptop?

Now, in comparison, the Jokaero seem actually quite similar to this. They love to tinker: they upgrade other people's weapons and give them bonuses. However, the digital weapons that (in the WH book at least) they give Inquisitors to use are nothing like as powerful as what they can wield themselves. Which suggests that the really big ones are only usable by the Jokaero themselves. And if you are as much of a techno-wizkid as one of these, the 'lure' required to get them to the battlefield would be: "I don't believe it's as effective as you say. Show me". 

Also, having a gun doesn't make _you _less harmless in and of yourself, physically. BS3 means a steady hand and a good eye. I have that. And I wouldn't call myself 'fierce' or 'willing to jump into battle'. If I had the know-how to make a giant gun, and was asked to bring it to the battlefield to save the world, the model that represents me would still be a slightly awkward, 30-something girl. 

I think what I'm trying to say, is that regardless of reasons for going to war, going will not automatically make you a fierce warrior whose looks will strike fear into the hearts and minds of your enemies. Sometimes an intelligent ape with a really powerful gun is just that - an intelligent ape with a really powerful gun.


----------



## DivineArchitect (Mar 24, 2011)

SilverTabby said:


> Now, would an appropriate model for that nerd be:
> a) A catachan jungle fighter with the massively over-done bulging biceps,
> b) a fierce and determined Inquisitorial stormtrooper, or
> c) a thin short guy in glasses wielding a laptop?
> ...


 Atleast a nerd in some sort of nasty lookign armour.

personally i think i ninja monkey would of gone down better


----------



## Bhaal006 (Apr 11, 2010)

SilverTabby said:


> OK, how about this one then. A super-computer nerd who lives in a dark basement surrounded by computers and drinking nothing but *pepsi* all day has developed the galaxy's most virulent computer virus, that can stop all necrons and other mechanicals in their tracks. However, that virus needs to be delivered within 20ft of the target, and only the nerd has the know-how to make it work correctly. So, that nerd agrees to accompany a warband to deliver said virus on the battlefield.


That's ridiculous, everyone knows nerds (Super-Computer or otherwise) only drink Mountain Dew.


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Bhaal006 said:


> That's ridiculous, everyone knows nerds (Super-Computer or otherwise) only drink Mountain Dew.


Sorry, my bad. Us Brits often have trouble finding Mountain Dew so have to take whatever we can get :wink:


----------



## turel2 (Mar 2, 2009)

Bhaal006 said:


> That's ridiculous, everyone knows nerds (Super-Computer or otherwise) only drink Mountain Dew.


I don't know what you mean, I love Mountain Dew and i'm not a.....

oh hang on.. :gamer1:


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Well then this is for you guys! :biggrin:


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Uber Ork said:


> I'm not sure "harmless" is the right word for a developer of ring sized weaponry as powerful as a las cannon, multi-melta, or Hv flamer, and (more importantly)... who's willing to use it in battle along side the radical, often hyper violent and warlike, inquisition.


They're harmless from the point of view that from the old fluff they're not really that self aware. The Inquisition treat them like animals, much like we treat dogs. They will attack things that the Inquisitor tells them to, much like a dog, well a dog with a DEATHRING ™ . That was what they always used to be, I'm not sure if anything has changed. 

If you just left them to their own devices they wouldn't go on murderous rampages, they're taught/encouraged to do that by Inquisitors.


----------



## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Bhaal006 said:


> That's ridiculous, everyone knows nerds (Super-Computer or otherwise) only drink Mountain Dew.


Back in the RT days, computer nerds used to drink nothing but Jolt or Jolt Ultra (this was back before the so-called "energy drink" market happened).
Jolt (red) had double the caffeine of coke (iirc) and Ultra (purple) was double again (maybe just triple the coke level). It's been a while since I've seen it, let alone had any (over 17 years).

Many were the computer user group meets fuelled by that stuff, and pizza.

Mountain dew had less caffeine in it than Jolt.


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I have no idea what this Jolt or Mountain Dew is, heard of it though. I guess i'm not a proper computer nerd.


----------



## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

It was in TV shows of the 80s, whenever a computer nerd was on screen - they always had cans of 'Jolt'. It was illegal to sell in Australia due to the caffeine content until 1990 or so (We got a different version of Mountain dew for sale here, too. Our mountain dew was cat's piss, instead of cat's piss that keeps you awake and "did it, done it, doin' it tomorrow!" as the ad campaign had it.).

It was even in X-file episodes when the lone gunmen were featured (and their spinoff) later on. Blue and black box parties had cartons of it for consumption courtesy of our American friends. These coloured boxes were to enable "high speed" internet connections at what were "dialup" speeds (9600baud up to 56k in one go, better error detection/correction. They were also illegal.)

Then our gu'mmint here discovered it was possible to get faster than dial-up speeds and the devices were obsolete, and then the web happened.


----------



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

SilverTabby said:


> OK, how about this one then. A super-computer nerd who lives in a dark basement surrounded by computers and drinking nothing but pepsi all day has developed the galaxy's most virulent computer virus, that can stop all necrons and other mechanicals in their tracks. However, that virus needs to be delivered within 20ft of the target, and only the nerd has the know-how to make it work correctly. So, that nerd agrees to accompany a warband to deliver said virus on the battlefield.


I quite like this idea. It makes me think of Jeff Goldblum from Independance Day. He was probably the least intimidating individual ever, but he was a techno-genius and ended up being super important.


----------



## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> They're harmless from the point of view that from the old fluff they're not really that self aware. The Inquisition treat them like animals, much like we treat dogs. They will attack things that the Inquisitor tells them to, much like a dog, well a dog with a DEATHRING ™ . That was what they always used to be, I'm not sure if anything has changed.
> 
> If you just left them to their own devices they wouldn't go on murderous rampages, they're taught/encouraged to do that by Inquisitors.



Oh, that's not the old fluff I remember. There used to be jokaero raiding bands that would descend on outlying settlements and steal anything technological, and disappear. They have their own spacefaring ships, and in RT days, capturing them and using them to make things resulted in their making things to get away with. The Inquisition's "Tame" jokaero probably are there cause the inquisition allows them to steal anything not nailed down without problems, as the victims are heretics anyway


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Creon said:


> Oh, that's not the old fluff I remember. There used to be jokaero raiding bands that would descend on outlying settlements and steal anything technological, and disappear. They have their own spacefaring ships, and in RT days, capturing them and using them to make things resulted in their making things to get away with. The Inquisition's "Tame" jokaero probably are there cause the inquisition allows them to steal anything not nailed down without problems, as the victims are heretics anyway


*Creon*, I can't speak to whether your recollections are on track with the original RT material _(as I don't have any RT stuff)_ but I can say that your description definitely fits what Lexicanum has to say about the Jokaero.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Jokaero

The description they give of them, is being genetically engineered with knowledge to make things. They have extremely advanced ships, and are thought to be designed by the old ones. 

This lends much credence to the article's comparison of a Jokaero's innate knowledge being similar that of an ork mek boy, as it is thought the orks were also created by the old ones. If that is indeed the case, then the ork codex can shed some light here.

Mek boyz can't explain to you how to build something they just know how to do it. In the same way, Jokaero don't even have a language (as the article points out) and so really can't explain their tech to you either. 

So, are they harmless techno-apes? 

Well, one thing we know for sure, is that having an innate understanding/mastery of technology doesn't automatically make you harmless. In fact from it, as the innate knowledge ork mek boyz possess doesn't in anyway make them harmless. In fact... in the same way that a mass murderer is more dangerous with a large bomb verses a steak knife, it makes them *more* harmful. 

However, on the flip side, having an innate understanding/mastery of technology doesn't guarantee you'll be harmful either. It is entirely possible that a race could only use their techno-mastery to heal and help verses harm and hurt.

In the end I think it comes down to what you do with the innate knowledge and devices you manufacture, etc. that determines whether you're harmless or harmful.

The orks use this their knowledge and devices for war and to harm. The Jokaero? As a race we know very little about them, but this discussion isn't about the race. It's about a GW model. A GW model that represents a Jokaero included in an inquisitorial warband.

So... is a Jokaero included in an inquisitorial warband harmless?

Well, I guess that depends. Are you an enemy of the inquisition being burned to death by a Jokaero heavy flamer fired by a jokaero or in a tank that was just destroyed by a super heated beam or a highly powerful concentrated blast of light? Or are you on the receiving end of one of their raids (as Creon and the Lexicanum article talk about) where they _"band together to fight a common enemy if they seek a specific object, and they fight with complex strategies and maneuvers?"_ ...then no, they're not harmless. 


Even the race as a whole may not be so harmless... not just those Jokaero fighting for the inquisition. The Lexicanum article goes on to even explain how they seek out undefended targets to raid. So while they don't have a language, they're smart enough not to attack fortified positions and instead attack unsuspecting farmers in their farm houses to get what they want. 

The article is unclear on whether they harm the farmers financially (like a computer hacker or common thief might) or whether they harm them physically. One thing we can take away though, is when the Jokaero as a race want something, they're willing to take it forcibly.

While the Lexicanum article doesn't speak about whether the Jokaero not fighting with the inquisition use deadly force to slaughter the farmers or suspensor fields to hold them in suspended animation while they make off with their stuff... we can be clear about what codex Grey knights says the ones fighting with the inquisition do with their Las Cannon's, Multi-Meltas, and Heavy Flamers... 



As an aside. The Lexicanum article appears not to have received an update from the Grey Knights codex yet, as it only lists RT as the source for its info. Not to mention this line...
_"Attempts to control the Jokaero and force them to construct technology have met with failure as they build things with which to escape from their captors."_ ...which clearly isn't the case anymore. 

If anything the C:GK entry on them makes them even more dangerous as the Jokaero fighting for the inquisition aren't just limited to raiding to get what they want anymore. They kill right alongside the inquisition. Who cares how the inquisition got them to do it (promised them 10,000 bananas as a reward, told them the people on the other side want to kill their children, etc.), the bottom line is... they do it. They now kill for the inquisition...



So does that make them harmless? I have a hard time seeing how. The definition of the word harmless is...



dictionary.com said:


> *harm·less*/ˈhärmlis/Adjective
> 1. Not able or likely to cause harm.


So which if these two examples describes the jokaero in the service of the inquisition? 

1. are they *not able* to cause harm? No. With BS3 and a choice of 3 heavy weapons they're quite able to cause harm... and furthermore do cause harm. I mean, that's what the weapons are there for right? To cause harm. It's not like they're using the las cannon to slice a banana, the multi-melta to super heat their meals, or the heavy flamer to start a camp fire... 

And 2. are they, while being a part of an inquisitorial warband; which is the context of this whole conversation, *not likely* to cause harm? No. The inquisition is one of the most violent, warlike entities in the imperium. They're not including the Jokaero in their warbands for the aesthetic improvements they can make. They're including them to kill and lay waste to the enemies of the imperium whoever they may be.


So I'll rephrase my question. According to the definition of the word harmless, are they harmless? Not at all. 


Comparing them to a computer super geek with the programing skill to make the most virulent computer virus in the galaxy only works as a comparison if the computer virus is able to super heat a person's computer causing the operator to instantaneously explode like a multi-melta would, or is able to cause the power supply to catch on fire and spew liquid flaming chemicals out from the console to ignite and then burn alive the person seated at the computer, etc.

The only similarity to a super cyber criminal and a jokaero that fits (aside from they're both drawn to technology), is that they both cause harm. One harms computer software and hardware with a super powerful virus, the other harms life with super powerful life ending weapons. 

Reading the weapons descriptions in the GK codex we see this...

*Description of a Heavy Flamer from C:GK pg. 56*


> Short ranged weapons that spew out highly volatile clouds of liquid chemicals which ignite on contact with air. They are primarily used to scour the enemy from defended positions, as walls are of no defense against belches of superheated vapor.


Which I might add results in burning their victims to death right in front of them!

*Description of a Lascannon from C:GK pg. 57*


> There are few finer weapons for tank hunting on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium than the lascannon. Within the gun is a laser chamber that charges an energy blast capable of shattering any enemy vehicle with a single shot.


*Description of a Multi-Melta from C:GK pg. 57*


> Melta weapons are lethal anti-armor guns, used when undertaking assaults against heavily fortified defence lines and bastions. Most effective at very short range, melta weapons are capable of reducing rock, metal and living material to molten slag or ash. Melta weapons make no noise when fired, but the super-heating of the air produces a distinctive and sinister hiss. Should the weapon's beam strike a living creature, the target's body moisture vaporises in a memorably explosive fashion.



Still think thy're harmless? 

If so, maybe it's me who should change my mind. 

Maybe I'm just missing how it makes perfect sense for a Jokaero after seeing his/her "target's body moisture" vaporise "in a memorably explosive fashion," or who just watched his/her target burn to death right in front of them, or just who watched an enemy tank (with living beings inside) "shatter..." and then who comes back with the inquisition to do it again and again is harmless. :wink:




..............................






chromedog said:


> Back in the RT days, computer nerds used to drink nothing but Jolt or Jolt Ultra (this was back before the so-called "energy drink" market happened).
> Jolt (red) had double the caffeine of coke (iirc) and Ultra (purple) was double again (maybe just triple the coke level). It's been a while since I've seen it, let alone had any (over 17 years).
> 
> Many were the computer user group meets fuelled by that stuff, and pizza.
> ...


Ahhh... yes, Jolt soda, I remember it well. Tasted awful though, but boy did it have a high caffeine and sugar content. 2-3 cans was usually good for some heart palpitations. 

This stuff helped me through college. Many an all night study session or writing a term paper was fueled by Jolt soda! k:










Also... I believe the slogan was "All the sugar and twice the caffeine," which fits perfectly with your double the caffeine content of coke example... although for the life of me, I can't remember what soda they were comparing themselves to for having twice the caffeine content? Was it coke? Mt. Dew? Man, I can't remember. :biggrin:


----------



## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Well, with that much time and effort put into the post then I will put up my hands and go "fine, they aren't harmless". 

However, that doesn't change my opinion that the model is just fine. Simply because they aren't harmless doesn't mean the model has to look fierce and deadly. Many of the world's most poisonous or deadly creatures are pretty, colourful and 'harmless' in appearance. An alien shoulder-mounted poison arrow frog who can kill you in 3 seconds with a deadly squirt of venom would still just be a colourful amphibian sitting on someone's shoulder. No huge teeth or bulging biceps there. 

So I guess the question is actually different to what we've been arguing. In nature, the most harmful 'harmless' creatures can actually be the prettiest. So, if you had massive intellect and the ability to make all these weapons - why do you _need _to look scary or impressive?


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Creon said:


> Oh, that's not the old fluff I remember. There used to be jokaero raiding bands that would descend on outlying settlements and steal anything technological, and disappear. They have their own spacefaring ships, and in RT days, capturing them and using them to make things resulted in their making things to get away with. The Inquisition's "Tame" jokaero probably are there cause the inquisition allows them to steal anything not nailed down without problems, as the victims are heretics anyway


The fluff on them is a bit inconsistent to say the least. No can decide if they're what you would call an intelligent life form, they're savants at technology but don't seem to do anything else. They don't seem to plan ahead, yet build spaceships, it's all a bit bizzare. 

In the end there's maybe what, 4 Paragraphs on infomation in total about Jokareo ecer written by GW. In fact Uber Ork has written more about Jokaero in his last post than GW ever has. With that in mind, who cares, make it up yourself, make them as harmless or and viscous as you like.


----------



## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

Maybe WE should write the fluff. Less Ultramarines, more Space Marines, yes?


----------



## DivineArchitect (Mar 24, 2011)

Agreed home made fluff is always much....fluffier

i think my base instinct will tell me too kill it with a very large concentration of basilisk fire i do ever see one. harmless or not!


----------



## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I have determined that painting armor Orange seems to make Jokaero hit it far better than any colour. That explains their colour, they just like orange 

In my battle with my test army, which is almost all inquisition, the jokaero never failed to hit the orange falcon. They missed other stuff all the time, but never that. Unfortunately, it was only stunned every turn, and had no weapons at the end.


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

SilverTabby said:


> Well, with that much time and effort put into the post then I will put up my hands and go "fine, they aren't harmless".


:biggrin:





SilverTabby said:


> However, that doesn't change my opinion that the model is just fine.


Yes, 40K is a very personal and subjective hobby, which for me is one of its greatest strengths. One person is drawn to the Tau, another to the look and feel of Space Wolves, another to Orks, etc.

I'm glad you like the model, that's a good thing, and it goes to show the old adage is alive and well. _ "You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."_ Sometimes GW nails it with a model no one has complaints with, and sometimes... like with the Jokaero they please some of the people while others feel like they missed it.






SilverTabby said:


> Simply because they aren't harmless doesn't mean the model has to look fierce and deadly. Many of the world's most poisonous or deadly creatures are pretty, colourful and 'harmless' in appearance. An alien shoulder-mounted poison arrow frog who can kill you in 3 seconds with a deadly squirt of venom would still just be a colourful amphibian sitting on someone's shoulder. No huge teeth or bulging biceps there.


I can agree with that, however, I think in this case GW made the wrong choice to go with the "poison arrow frog" of Jokaero models.

Again, a sculpt (the way the model's posed, its expression, etc.) says a lot about how we're to perceive a model. Since Games Workshop is (primarily) a miniature company, it's absolutely critical to get this right. Everything else ('eavy metal, fluff, photography, marketing, and layout, etc.) works together with these sculpts to create the amazing universe we all love and play in. 

There's a synergy with all these different elements that make or break a model. 

For instance. If the fluff says space wolves are ferocious, then they shouldn't be sculpted wearing clown outfits, or if the fluff says orks are a fungal based life form that have green skin then 'eavy metal shouldn't paint them with human flesh tones, etc.

For me, GW dropped the ball with the Jokaero because the model doesn't capture what the Jokaero are known for (technosavants without peer, upgrading weapons and defense, and shooting powerful ring sized digital weapons). Looking at the model, I don't get a single one of those fluff items (other than maybe the backpack) that is central to the Jokaero.

For me the synergy is off. 

'Eavy metal painted them correctly (orange orangutan like fur), and photography took (as always) nice crisp high quality photos, marketing and layout did a great job including those photos on the website and in the codex, etc. and Matt Ward (yes Matt Ward),  did a good job writing the short bit of fluff C:GK has on them.

So, where'd they drop the ball? For me, again, in the sculpt having synergy with the fluff.

Here's an example of what I mean. Lets say we were going to make a model who (1) needs to fit within the dark, "there is only war," 40K universe, and (2) who needs to be connected to its tinkering/improving things or shooting ring sized weapons fluff, we wouldn't want to use this model...










Why? Because this model doesn't say any of those things. This is what I mean by the sculpt needing to have synergy with the fluff. The King Louie from Jungle Book figurine doesn't (1) fit within the dark 40K universe, and (2) says nothing about being a technosavant. 



This for me, is also the answer to your question...



SilverTabby said:


> So I guess the question is actually different to what we've been arguing. In nature, the most harmful 'harmless' creatures can actually be the prettiest. So, if you had massive intellect and the ability to make all these weapons - why do you _need _to look scary or impressive?


It doesn't need to look scary so much as it needs to fit within the 40K universe where there is (and this is especially where the inquisition is concerned) _"only war."_ It's _"in the grim dark future,"_ not _"in the bright pretty future."_ 

The Jokaero sculpt however says pretty harmless creature, and to me this is a huge disconnect from the universe it belongs in, not to mention a disconnect from the kind of things the Grey Knights codex has them doing. Killing. Killing. And more killing.


Harmless zoo ape does not = these things... 







Aramoro said:


> In the end there's maybe what, 4 Paragraphs on infomation in total about Jokareo ecer written by GW. In fact Uber Ork has written more about Jokaero in his last post than GW ever has. With that in mind, who cares, make it up yourself, make them as harmless or and viscous as you like.


Well yes, this is always the default position. Everyone has the right to do what they'd like, how they like in their own gaming circles. The most important rule in the rulebook as it were. 

However, since the OP was asking...


DivineArchitect said:


> i mean are you really supposed to field this little F*cker in game? what happend to old school gothic, gritty look of 40k?
> am i the only one who feels as though whoevers working for GW is butching the game?


...if other's agree with the *DivineArchitect*'s stance. I for one do agree with him, not about GW "butching" the whole game, but for sure at least this particular sculpt. :biggrin:







Alsojames said:


> Maybe WE should write the fluff. Less Ultramarines, more Space Marines, yes?


:laugh: We'll you won't find me disagreeing with you on a better disposition of UM fluff verses other 1st founding/prominent (2nd founding or otherwise) chapters, but alas... that may never happen. 

As to us writing the fluff, I think the most we could hope for is for GW to develop focus groups where they listen to fan feedback. Had George Lucas done that, we would have never had this...


----------



## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Uber Ork said:


> However, since the OP was asking...
> 
> ...if other's agree with the *DivineArchitect*'s stance. I for one do agree with him, not about GW "butching" the whole game, but for sure at least this particular sculpt. :biggrin:


That's what I disagree with. Old School is not that Grim or that Gritty, It featured Space Apes and Aliens who could only communicate thought the medium of the marching band. That stuff is Old school. Then 2nd Ed was Grim and from there it's been sanitised and made a lot less Grim from 3rd Ed onwards. 

The Jokaero is a nice little reference for anyone who played back in the day and the sculpt sums them up pretty well.


----------



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> That's what I disagree with. Old School is not that Grim or that Gritty, It featured Space Apes and Aliens who could only communicate thought the medium of the marching band. That stuff is Old school. Then 2nd Ed was Grim and from there it's been sanitised and made a lot less Grim from 3rd Ed onwards.


Ok, I see what you're saying now. Sorry I missed that. I've never read the original RT stuff, just the Lexicanum article based off it, but I think in this situation that both you and the OP are right. 

You're pointing out the Jokaero model fits the fluff of the RT days (i.e. the original old school). This doesn't fit so much with the Lexicanum article which sources RT material on the Jokaero... but those articles are hardly conclusive.

The OP as well as myself on the other hand, are saying the Jokaero model deviates from the look and feel of the 40K universe as set out from 2nd ed on. When comparing 2nd ed (considering it came out in 1993) to modern 5th ed, 2nd ed is "old school."

In fact the stretch from RT (1987) to second (1993) is only 6 years. Compare that to the gritty gothic universe we've had in play for 18 years and it makes it much more odd that GW would make a move back towards RT. I don't mean so much that they made a Jokaero model, but that the model fits the RT era more than the current 5th ed era.

For me that's part of the problem, but I also have a second beef that the OP didn't touch on. The model is not only inconsistent with the direction of the 40K universe for the last 18 years, but is inconsistent with the 5th ed fluff written about them in C:GK. The Jokaero 5th ed fluff doesn't have them being vicious blood thirsty monsters, but it doesn't have them as harmless zoo apes either. They fight, they kill, they shoot weapons, etc. ...yet the model says harmless zoo ape. That doesn't make any sense to me.

While I can appreciate that it may be an excellent reflection of the Jokaero from the RT days, it certainly doesn't reflect the current Jokaero fluff nor the current 40K universe. Is this model simply an anomaly in a long line of amazing and fluff accurate GW sculpts, or is this a new trend for GW? Are they changing the 40K universe from dark and gritty back to silly? Who knows, only time will tell for sure but I doubt it.

I have a feeling that what we have here isn't a shift in overall direction, but simply a bad sculpt. One that should have never made it past quality control because it reflects a bygone era verses the one we've been in for the past 18 years. All I'm saying is lets get back on track GW and make sure that your models are consistent with "old school" ...or perhaps more precisely, with what's been the 40K school of thought since 2nd ed and what's been on the front cover of 40K rulebooks since at least 3rd ed... 











Grim ...dark ...war. 

Not friendly zoo ape. :grin:



.


----------



## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Looking at the painted model again I cannot actually tell how much of the appearance is sculpt and how much is painting; it would not the first model GW have made where it looked very different in the blister from on the site.

Particularly, the eyes; if the eyes were painted a less happy colour than heroic blue and had shading around them to make them look more sunken, then the model might be considerably more grim-dark.


----------



## eyescrossed (Mar 31, 2011)

Insomniac monkeys are very, very grimdark.


----------

