# Astartes relation with humans.



## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

From reading the black library books. I notice that most Astartes treats humans as something beneath them. I think it's partly the way the Astartes are programmed. Astartes are fighting warriors so either by the gene -seed or hypno -programming they lack some human emotion such as compassion or even empathy. We all know that Astartes don't have fear . 

Which makes them perfect warriors since a lack of compassion and fear makes them perfect killing machines but from reading ,"Helsreach", the Salamanders had some sympathetic view towards humanity where as the Black Templar was all about war. 

This maybe a spoiler alert but the Salamanders were more concern about protecting humanity where as the Black templar was all about killing the enemy. 

So if a Salamander is about protecting humanity it leads me to think it's more about the culture of the chapter that makes the Astartes the way they are. I always assume that the gene-seed (look at Space wolves for example) has such a huge imprint in their emotion. 

Which leads me to think how astartes really view humanity. Astartes gets disgusted if they see Imperial Guards show fear in the trenches to the point of disdain. 

If let say the majority of Astartes think humanity is something that they cannot relate to and even look down upon. Then why die for them ? Obviously it's for the Imperium and the Emperor but this can easily lead to corruption and chaos. 

Astartes are genetic breed to fight and to kill .
An Astarte values courage, victory ( more wins a Astartes warrior gets the more value he has ) and violence. Violence is something that Astartes craves and I think values. So why not more loyalist Astartes turn to Khorne ? 

Khorne is a God of war not of peace. Astartes are made to fight and that's what they live for. I mean with Imperial Guards for example they fight for whole different reasons besides loyalty to the Imperium. If you read Gaunt Ghost series they fight for family, or for a new home world. Some Imperial Guards fight because of fear of dying..fear sometimes is a great motivator. 

But Astartes it's different. I used to thought in the gene-seed that there was some programming that made an Astartes loyalist by nature and protector but as I read more black library books I start to think different.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

It depends on the primarch, in promethan sun, the Emperor tells Vulkan that he was created with compassion built into him and the sons of a primarch always follow suit.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

A lot of it is the culture of the stock they use too I think, the UM have a very stable and nurturing system of planets that supply them with recruits. They tend to be much the same in their relations with humans. The SW are from a more wild planet and culture and they tend to be more wild themselves. As to why they fight, it is programmed into them. The ones that do not succeed at being programed do not make it out of the Scout squads if they even made it that far.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I always thought the direction the Black Templars went to be quite the opposite of what Rogal Dorn was. His attitude is a lot more prevalent in the Crimson Fists, who (if you've read Rynn's World) are also very thoughtful, stubborn and have elements of compassion about them.

Some fluff written on chapters simply don't take their geneseed into account when they write for them and so you have all kinds of stuff going on. Thankfully the latest fluff is reflecting more on their origins and less on trying to make them bad asses.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Do keep in mind they're psycho-indoctrinated for loyalty towards the Emperor and humanity. 

Also the Black Templars were also fighting for the wider war effort. They complained that the Salamanders drop-pod assaulted to protect some civilians when they could have assaulted directly into the Ork leadership and possibly stemmed the entire Ork attack (and save more lives in the process) for a while.

They later complain that instead of watching a particular civilian shelter, the Salamanders and Black Templar could have pushed their advantage and slain an Ork warboss.

Sacrificing the many for the few.

And I don't think the Astartes are disgusted with human soldiers. It's just...if you've ever played on a sports team or been part of a team in general and you have people less devoted or in general less skill (due to no specific failure on their part) than you, you can't help feel a bit of resentment that they can't quite carry as much as you can.

Yeah, you may want to help them get better, but they're either not willing or capable of matching you. 

That's how I see it.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

If you read the books. Fall of Damnos and Purging of kadallus. You learn a few things about ultramarines and dark angels.

For instance. In Damnos Ultramarines showed respect towards humans that fought alongside them, one even went so far as to carry an injured human to his Sergent when she passed out from the strain of the battle.

Also another Sergent felt sorry for brave men who died an undignified way.

In Kadallus two different marines while fighting orks protected a trooper who was fighting one even gave him his bolt pistol when his lazgun was destroyed.

Another one saluted him after shooting an ork that was going to kill him. He did the same for that marine.

So it just depends on who it is.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

You also learn how the Crimson Fists relate with humans to in Rynn's World.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

I think gene-seed will only carry you so far when discussing the attitudes of Astartes from any chapter. As you say, there are some that are compassionate and some that are not.

-=Maybe a Spoiler?=-

The Marine Molevolent for instance, were willing to sacrifice a great many humans to achieve their goals. In contrast, the Salamanders are more about protecting them.

It falls to culture, upbringing, and Chapter beliefs, and to an extent it also falls to character-flaws or strengths within the Astartes themselves.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

it just depends on each chapter and its culture.

the older chapters (foundings 1-3)

have more of a bond with humanity as a whole, but the newer the chapter the more scorn and lack of care appears.

perhaps its just that the later chapters have not learned how to "respect" their human comrades to the degree of older chapters such as the Salamanders, Space Wolves, etc.

the difference between the BTs and Sallies that everyone is mentioning is just different means of how to wage a war. BTs are strictly about eradicating the enemy ASAP; while the Sallies are more of how to wage war more "gentlemanly" by not killing innocents...well THEIR innocents.


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## Klaivex (Dec 21, 2010)

Fallen said:


> it just depends on each chapter and its culture.
> 
> the older chapters (foundings 1-3)
> 
> ...


While that is a generalization it seems often times to be true. It may well be related to it but is also seems like the older chapters have a lesser opinion on the newer chapters.

This is clearly seen in Victories of the Space Marines, "Exhumed." The Ultramarine resented the fact that he had to follow the orders of a (i think) Death Specter. That was also a good story on how the Astartes feel about having to kill civilians.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

A lot of the old Legions didn't care too much for their human brethren. Night Lords, World Eaters, for example. Iron Warriors also went apeshit, too (though they were under duress at the time).

Just the ones that didn't particularly cared for humans had less qualms leaving them behind.


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## Geist (Mar 9, 2010)

HUMANITY IS SUPERIOR, DOWN WITH SPACE MARINES!!!

...Mmhmm..... Anyway, as many have said, it depends on the many variables(Chapter Age, Chapter Lineage, Personality Flaws, etc...) All of which could have no effect on the Space Marine depending on their own personal views. There could be a Black Templar who learns to respect Humanity because of the courage portrayed by a single Cadian taking on a CSM in single combat. Or a Ultramarine who has seen Guardsman after Guardsman run away in fear due to fighting alongside a Penal Legion, souring his views on Humanity.

The biggest influence is personal experience IMHO.


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## GiftofChaos1234 (Jan 27, 2009)

well from reading battle of the fang (i dont think this is a spoiler but be careful) i gathered that the Wolves thought of the humans in the fang very little, and would never speak to them. however once the battle starts the wolves gain respect and compassion towards the people they are fighting for and with. you see lone grey hunters charging units of thousand sons to allow the human soldiers to retreat and to save them etc. 

i dont think this would jsut be the space wolves either. i think most chapters would proabbly just think little of the majority of humanity simply because they dont interact with them all too much. whereas when they begin to fight a war with them, their respect and empathy towards them grows. also see the first armaggeddon war. Logan Grimnar was immensly pissed off when the inquisition rounded up everyone who had heard of the daemonic entity of the fight and shipped them off.


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## Tedathalan (Jun 20, 2011)

A given chapter/company/squad's attitude to normal humans may also influence whether or not they fall to Chaos. If I remember the fluff correctly, some Space Marines become so resentful of having to fight and die for 'normal' humans who they have no emotional connection with that they turn to Chaos so that they can follow their own desires/goals. Other Marines who better understand the humans they are protecting may better resist the temptation because of loyalty and compassion.


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

Personally I'd think that it comes more down to how they are raised to think about humans, remember, from the tender age of about 11 to 14, the chapter IS your family, the men you fight and die alongside are not only your comrades in arms, but literally your brothers, your sergeant is your father,the chapter master is by extension, your wise old grandfather, if they feel that humans are worth protecting, they are going to pass that feeling on to you. and you are going to pass it on to the new recruits after that.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

The two chapters that are most humane (according to fluff) are the Salamanders and Ultramarines. One contributing reason is that they live with them, among them. 

The Salamanders don't sequester themselves on Prometheus, most live among the people on Nocturne. The same can be said for the Ultramarines; Macragge, and specifically The Temple of Correction in the Fortress of Hera, is a pilgrimage site.

The Chapters that hold themselves apart from humanity are the ones that seem to have rather skewed ideas of the people that they came from.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

One thing to remember is that the SM were created to protect humanity and to help reunite the human race again as a whole. Many of the SM have compassion towards humans and hell even some CSM have a lil towards there cult followers, but the main thing is SMs are warriors and fighters. They were trained in the art of war and they will fight for honour and justice, this why when a gaurdsman goes above and beyond the call of duty the SMs tend to respect them. If they are CSM they tend to kill just to well kill, but even CSM of some warbands have a degree respect towards humans as well and they will even protect there recruiting grounds just as obsessively as loyalists.

Since no one has adressed this Im going to considering it was mentioned. SM tend to stay quite loyal to their chapter and they do a great job (for the most part) in weeding out the weak and corrupt. So that even though SMs are bred for war they don't turn to Khorne for more power because of their devotion to the Emperor. Now that being said at times the bad apples can make it through the cracks or a SM or chapter has been wronged so badly by the Imperium they decided that its not worth fighting for and dying for either, so when a chpater or lone SM goes rogue and embraces Chaos the tend to turn to Khorne more than any other god for the simple fact that war is what they know and killing is what they do best so naturally they turn to him, but this also depends on the SM in question some marines want the power to triumph over pain so they turn to Nurgle ther nasty, they may want to be known and remembered for being a great warrior that fought valiently so then they turn to Slaanesh the sexy, or they may just desire knowledge and want to understand what their role in life is and turn turn to Tzeench the Bi-Polar.

Many think that SM have no emotions which isn't true, they have feelings like any other human, because even though they have been genetically altered to be a super soldier they still have emotions and can feel compassion with a human they have simply grown a bond with either on the battle field or they had to protect an individual that really couldn't fend for themselves, such as a child or a helpless woman(which has happened many times in the fluff). Look at The First Heretic, and think of the main char. Argel Tal, he held a huge bond with the blessed lady almost to a degree of love you would show a sister and he also held a love for his best firend even though he had changed so much over time. IMO he was a good example of how a SM would normally act on a day to day basis(besides his lil issue from the warp). In short SM are realy just as human as any other normal human they just have their emotions under better control or have had them suppressed by by there training toa degree where they can't interfere when they are in combat. This is why many SM wind being Slaaneshy lovers, because they had supressed their emotions for so long that they become overwhelmed by their emotions.


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