# Vindicator vs Predator: discuss



## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Hey guys.

This has grabbed my attention recently in a lot of threads floating around - What are your views on which is better, predator (anti-tank or anti-infantry) or the Vindicator?

Obviously there is pros and cons for each, such as dakka predators being cheaper and having more weapons incase one is destryoed, whilst Vindicator ignores armour saves and has top strength, large blast.

So, for you which will it be? If you could only take one, which would it be, and if you were writing a list how would you field them? (eg 2 vindicators and 1 dakka predator)

Discuss!


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Vindi. Utilitarian All Comer and a naughty fire magnet.

Preds when tooled are better at either, but can't move and fire all guns and rapidly get more expensive that way.


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## Izzleydill (Jul 11, 2010)

For me its always been the vindicator. Because it comes prepared for both. It also has to deal with I like to move my tanks up and the predator can't move and fire all the important weapons. Also there was the two months where the demolisher cannon counted as a ordnance, barrage in 5th edition... And it rocked.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Vindicator. For long range anti tank support, you can use long range, tw-linked laser razorback for the retarded price of ** cheap points. So much more effective. So much cheaper than a pred too.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

I am the same as you both. I always thought the majority of people thought the same, but after reading a few threads it appeared to be more 50/50.

I prefer the vindicator because of it's weaponry, it can move up to 6" and still fire it's massive weapon, essentially giving it 30" range, it's only 115 points as well.

What I like to do is run the vindicators in pairs, one with Sergeant Chronus behind the wheel, and a dakka predator for 95 points. Works really well.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Fuck that. Go for triple naked Vindicator's. It's like a cheap Triple Monolith/Land Raider set up, but with the firepower to match.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Fuck that. Go for triple naked Vindicator's. It's like a cheap Triple Monolith/Land Raider set up, but with the firepower to match.


I have tried that, and it did work really well, but for some reason I really like running 1 predator lol. I think because I play mostly horde armies it may be a reason, and there isn't the risk of scattering


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## DrinCalhar (Jul 10, 2010)

It all depends on the roll you need them to play and your army set up. Vindicator with a Lash is a win. However, if you run 3 of these you are going to need to find some anti-tank somewhere else. Vindicator is much better than anti-infantry pred. Vindicator can also be a great magnet for fire. 
Vindicator for Anti-Infantry role
Pred with las for Anti-Tank role


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

DrinCalhar said:


> It all depends on the roll you need them to play and your army set up. Vindicator with a Lash is a win. However, if you run 3 of these you are going to need to find some anti-tank somewhere else. Vindicator is much better than anti-infantry pred. Vindicator can also be a great magnet for fire.
> Vindicator for Anti-Infantry role
> Pred with las for Anti-Tank role


How do you figure Vindicators aren't as good as LC predators when the main weapon has S10 and AP2?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Range, and the reduction in strength if the hole scatters off. As I run bikes, though, I usually have around a half dozen melta's running around, all capable of getting flank or rear armour by Turn 2.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Range, and the reduction in strength if the hole scatters off. As I run bikes, though, I usually have around a half dozen melta's running around, all capable of getting flank or rear armour by Turn 2.


Range does have an advantage, but you can't move and shoot all of it's weapons unlike the vindi. Also 165 points for a LC Predator is quite a lot more than the 115 for a standard vindicator.

Also, Lascannon's only get 1 shot each, so that's 3 shots a turn, one able to re-roll to hit, so you're not going to be killing more than 3 in a turn.

Where-as the Vindicator can cover anything under the large blast marker, you could get 5+ models under there, and if that's a hit, as long as you wound, most likely on a 2+, that's 5+ dead enemies. Save's most likely ignored as the S of the weapon is likely to be double their toughness, and the AP of 2 backs it up if not. This is also great for popping tanks.

Even if it does scatter, you can still hit them, and this is increased if you take Chronus and use his BS for the shots.

So yeah the Vindicator may not be as reliable as the Lascannon, but when it does hit, those models are fucked! As are the models when a LC hits them, usually.


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## elkhantar (Nov 14, 2008)

Well, it also depends on the rest of your army. If you're running an "in your face" type of list, then predators all the way, please! Any scatter could harm your army more than your opponent's.

That said, I run BA, so my predators can move and fire just fine  so Auto-cannon + las sponsons for me!


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## Izzleydill (Jul 11, 2010)

The extra dice and picking the highest for pen makes a huge difference. Strength 10 ordnance is the best monolith killer. also against armor 10 or 11, the splash damage can still get on the carts because of the great pen ability.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I run an assault heavy army and have 2 vindicators in my list. Once, in 20+ games equaling about 120 shots from them, they have scattered to get half str on a rhino. They have a max scatter of 8". unless the enemy deploys everything within 10" of each other it is very easy to smash one unit in CC while still firing to full effect. 

I run my Vindicators with siege shield and extra armour, making them 170 for BA so I think 140 for SM? Still thoguh if it gets shot they can still move to hinder firing lanes, protect weaker units etc. Also one great thing is having a vehicle drive straight through a building with no test at all and letting rip with a str 10 shot  

the Predators are good but I think their roles can be better done by rifleman dreads. Melta for the big tanks, AV13 and over, autocannons for the transports and lighter tanks, plus with 4 rerollable shots instead of just 2 they're more likely to pop a transport, and do it cheaper too. Vindicators are a better choice for a very hard hitting army as they can threaten everything with equal power. The pred is good but I think they're over rated. Used them myelf and they didn't do much all game. If your anti tank is static it is very easy to avoid it. things like speeders and attack bikes do better as anti tank IMO


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## elkhantar (Nov 14, 2008)

Well, reevan, then you're much luckier than I am with scatters. I've splattered my squads multiple times, even with the BS reduction of the scatter. But hey, if it works for you, then great!


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

It's not so much luck it's just good judgement. I never fire my Vindicators at a target within 8-11" of my guys unless it's something that's immune to the str. 5 like a land raider. All you have to do is give them a bit of space and they work wonders


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

For Chaos Vind>Pred.

Also counter to what most think, your chances of missing the body of most tanks with the center hole is only moderately less then what you would get with a normal none template BS4 weapon. After all for the vast majority of situations rolling a 5-6 for scatter to hit a vehicle will still hit with BS4 (Depending on the tank), this is not taking into account the 33% chance of a direct hit. Now unfortunately I don't have the time to break down the math, but you have around 50%+ chance of hitting a vehicle with a virtually guaranteed pen in most instances with a vindicator shot.

Also preds are to expensive for chaos, but if your a loyalist go nuts.


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## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

Being a Blood Angels player I have to go for the predator simply because we get Baal's.


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