# Using Posessed Chaos Space Marines



## Alwyn (Apr 11, 2009)

Hi all yet another query I think these minitures are great but I am still unsure on how these would fit into a competative force or even in casual games. They seem to be overpriced and a little unreliable with no ranged weaponry. Does anyone field these successfully and are there any tips on their use?


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## Broken Sword (Jan 5, 2009)

I am pretty sure this question would have been better placed on the Tactics forum on this site, but I will be more than happy to answer your question. - I'll handle telling people that. You focus on giving good advice! :good: - Katie D

You are right to think that they are overpriced for their reliability. If they were expensive, but, say always counted as having powerweapons, that would be great, but the problem lies in the fact that they are expensive and you don't know what you are going to get and when you write a list (especially with the high cost of our units), you want to make sure every point is spent toward achieving your well-laid plan for victory.
I played them once when I bought the battleforce that they come with and that was also the last time I played them. They have made many apperances since then ... sort of, as conversion bitz for my chosen or my Plague Marines ect. I think of buying a box of possesed as kind of Chaos' version of buying a chapter upgrade conversion kit from GW.


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

Broken Sword is correct. They're to unreliable, and the fact that you deploy them BEFORE you roll is kinda ruining the Scout part. To unreliable, To costy. Great for conversions.


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## Kishvier (Apr 13, 2009)

Agreed, they're far too random to use at any use. If you actually use them, you have to put them in a rhino though.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Remember folks, only post actual army lists in the army list sections. Questions about specific units and the like belong here in Tactics.

Katie D


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## Alwyn (Apr 11, 2009)

My apologies, think I posted it here in the hope someone had a list for use in an army of possessed my apologies


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

I've always had great success using my possessed - which I know, is contrary to the general opinion on any forum anywhere... but I run a slaaneshi warband & am loath to throw 'zerkers into my list so I use the possessed as my CC unit of choice.

I just have two plans for what they're to be used for & both are able to be initialized once the roll has been made. If I roll scouts, they (as already stated must be in a rhino) roll towards something tender... dark reapers / devastator squads / etc.

If I roll FNP / Rending / furious charge / power weapons, well - then they're my melee power houses that I wanted...

As far as I'm concerned - fleet is the only power I don't enjoy rolling - you'll probably only get to make use of that fleet move once (though it is helpfull if they're in a rhino...

To me, possessed are similar to zerkers - only have these +/-'s going for them (note: there are more -'s...)

+ S5
+ 5+ invul
+ additional ability (S6 / I5 on the charge? squad of pw's? fnp?)

- no access to PFist
- no grenades
- not troops therefore no capturing points
- more expensive


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## inigo montoya (Feb 1, 2009)

I have used them in 2k plus games to good effect. As was previously stated, our units cost so much that to play a random unit such as the posessed in a low points game would gimp your list.

In big games, a rhino full of posessed is fun to use and has a 50/50 chance of being solid. I would not use them in a tournament ever under any circumstance, but they can be effective in high points games.


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

depends on the type of tournie... you'll find you get more composition points if you use them over 'zerkers since people don't just say - "lash prince + vindicator + zerkers... hmmm..." Instead they say "lash prince + vindicator + possessed?" - and then you lash his squad out of cover so the lack of grenades doesn't matter=)


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

m3rr3k said:


> I've always had great success using my possessed - which I know, is contrary to the general opinion on any forum anywhere... but I run a slaaneshi warband & am loath to throw 'zerkers into my list so I use the possessed as my CC unit of choice.
> 
> I just have two plans for what they're to be used for & both are able to be initialized once the roll has been made. If I roll scouts, they (as already stated must be in a rhino) roll towards something tender... dark reapers / devastator squads / etc.
> 
> ...


You make them successful because you run lash, and gimp yourself without zerks.

Also you forgot that possessed have no guns, don't automatically come with 3 attacks each, and unless they roll rending/furious charge, will be COMPLETELY destroyed by a single dreadnought.

FNP makes them decent, but than they lack any power. Power weapons makes them easily worth it(Although it's almost cheaper rolling with terminators). And with furious charge, you'd be better off with zerks.

The problem comes from the random rolling, and how unoptimized they are.




m3rr3k said:


> depends on the type of tournie... you'll find you get more composition points if you use them over 'zerkers since people don't just say - "lash prince + vindicator + zerkers... hmmm..." Instead they say "lash prince + vindicator + possessed?" - and then you lash his squad out of cover so the lack of grenades doesn't matter=)


Chaos players need to go into a tournament with a "I'm going to win" attitude. Because otherwise we will lose hardcore with uncompetitive lists.


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## Broken Sword (Jan 5, 2009)

his is a bit off topic, but it addresses the comp score; I fail to understand how somebody can say that a CSM list doesn't make sense comp-wise because it includes different legions (because of opposing gods or a slaaneshi prince leading deathguard). You might be able to justify taking comp points in a daemon army for that reason, but for CSM? What about the Black Legion? Or what about the fact that the CSM are not daemons and though they serve Chaos, they still make their own decisions and are not some drop of a god's essence like a daemon is:ireful2:.

:angry:I have painted all my army to have at least some aspect of the model showing a Black Legion tie and when I hear people saying, (in the voice of the comic book store guy from the simpsons) 'Well you can't have those units together because it isn't fluffy' I tell them to think hard for a minute about what they are saying ... and I ask, So, does Abbadon have to worry about that when he puts together a group during the Black Crusade? Do you think that Ahriman would really have a problem using the Deathguard to achieve his goals. Or haw about the fact that nobody else's codex gets examined like that in composition the way Chaos does. I have never seen anyone get hit for have Mega-Armoured Nobz in a Speedfreak army, they just say 'oh well, their Orks'.:angry:

Anyway, I have ranted off topic for too long. Whatever you do, play for fun. If you like your possesed, keep and find a way to make them work, If not give them a great paintjob because they are cool looking models and if not that, give them to me and I will make something terrible out of them:laugh:!


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> You make them successful because you run lash, and gimp yourself without zerks.


Generally I don't use lash at all. I have better luck with warptime.



LordWaffles said:


> Also you forgot that possessed have no guns, don't automatically come with 3 attacks each


Didn't forget - just didn't mention. How many shots do you usually get with your bolt pistols? one round of shooting - inflicting 2 maybe 3 casualties to an ork mob? meh.



LordWaffles said:


> and unless they roll rending/furious charge, will be COMPLETELY destroyed by a single dreadnought.


True - but since your possessed never shoot anyways they can always be running away from that dreadnaught (which will be stopping to shoot...). Of course, if they're tied up in combat & the dread saunters in there's a round or two without a dreadnaught putting the hurt somewhere else... Not necessarily a fair trade (not cheap for sure...) but that's why you try to keep your possessed away from those dreadnaughts...



LordWaffles said:


> And with furious charge, you'd be better off with zerks.


The problem comes from the random rolling, and how unoptimized they are.[/QUOTE]

True.






LordWaffles said:


> Chaos players need to go into a tournament with a "I'm going to win" attitude. Because otherwise we will lose hardcore with uncompetitive lists.


Chaos is not alone in this regard.



Broken Sword said:


> his is a bit off topic, but it addresses the comp score; I fail to understand how somebody can say that a CSM list doesn't make sense comp-wise because it includes different legions (because of opposing gods or a slaaneshi prince leading deathguard). You might be able to justify taking comp points in a daemon army for that reason, but for CSM? What about the Black Legion? Or what about the fact that the CSM are not daemons and though they serve Chaos, they still make their own decisions and are not some drop of a god's essence like a daemon is:ireful2:.
> 
> :angry:I have painted all my army to have at least some aspect of the model showing a Black Legion tie and when I hear people saying, (in the voice of the comic book store guy from the simpsons) 'Well you can't have those units together because it isn't fluffy' I tell them to think hard for a minute about what they are saying ... and I ask, So, does Abbadon have to worry about that when he puts together a group during the Black Crusade? Do you think that Ahriman would really have a problem using the Deathguard to achieve his goals. Or haw about the fact that nobody else's codex gets examined like that in composition the way Chaos does. I have never seen anyone get hit for have Mega-Armoured Nobz in a Speedfreak army, they just say 'oh well, their Orks'.:angry:
> 
> Anyway, I have ranted off topic for too long. Whatever you do, play for fun. If you like your possesed, keep and find a way to make them work, If not give them a great paintjob because they are cool looking models and if not that, give them to me and I will make something terrible out of them:laugh:!


Not everyone wants to play red corsairs / black legion. As such, not everyone feels that a disciple of khorne should ride next to a disciple of slaanesh. Feel free to do it if you want, its possible to run a competitive list while sticking to fluff - and technically it is fluffy if you want to run a black legion. But hell - everyone hates on the ultra-smurfs, Black Legion is their chaos equal.

The OP asked specifically where possessed fit in a chaos army.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

m3rr3k said:


> Generally I don't use lash at all. I have better luck with warptime.


I saw slaaneshi themed, I made an assumption, my mistake.




m3rr3k said:


> Didn't forget - just didn't mention. How many shots do you usually get with your bolt pistols? one round of shooting - inflicting 2 maybe 3 casualties to an ork mob? meh.


Threat range of zerks-18"(Also plasma pistols  )
Threat range of possessed-12"





m3rr3k said:


> True - but since your possessed never shoot anyways they can always be running away from that dreadnaught (which will be stopping to shoot...).


Dreads don't stop to shoot. And it's about field control. If I can deploy a dread and stop the possessed from being anywhere in a 12" ring around it, it's paid for itself merely by stomping around and making noise. Also note that it'll be firing it's guns away at what it needs to.



m3rr3k said:


> Of course, if they're tied up in combat & the dread saunters in there's a round or two without a dreadnaught putting the hurt somewhere else... Not necessarily a fair trade (not cheap for sure...) but that's why you try to keep your possessed away from those dreadnaughts...


Again, field control. If I can keep your possessed away from my juicy target for the price of 125(dread with plascan), it's not only paid for itself, it's also blasting 2-3 possessed off the board a turn.



m3rr3k said:


> Chaos is not alone in this regard.


The only other lists that suffer from the fluff argument are space marines(And they never win to begin with), and orks(Who win all the time and like said before, 'are orks', which is somehow more justified than 'random chance incarnate').





m3rr3k said:


> Not everyone wants to play red corsairs / black legion. As such, not everyone feels that a disciple of khorne should ride next to a disciple of slaanesh. Feel free to do it if you want, its possible to run a competitive list while sticking to fluff - and technically it is fluffy if you want to run a black legion. But hell - everyone hates on the ultra-smurfs, Black Legion is their chaos equal.


Everyone hates red corsairs. You idiots ruined what should have been a perfectly good chaos dex dedicated to the real legions. Not some bizzarre space pirate who can cast warptime.

Also, fyi? Abaddon is a terrible leader who has failed nearly every crusade he's been even remotely involved with. Right now he's staring down cadia with every obliterator/plague marine/lashing daemon prince he can find, and still fails.

And m3rr3k is completely correct in that black legion are mary sue ultramarines...with spikes.




m3rr3k said:


> The OP asked specifically where possessed fit in a chaos army.


Short answer? They don't.

Long answer? Non-competitively.


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## Broken Sword (Jan 5, 2009)

My final thought on the possesed (and sorry for going off topic in my last post), is that the possesed are for fun games where two players can clash using lists that draw on some of the fun things in their army, like the Ork Shokk Attack gun and how it could randomly go boom and kill a bunch of orks, or shoot the mech across the board:laugh:. The possesed work like that in the fact they fit into our list as a reflection of the fickle attentions of the Dark Gods. They fit well into any fun list the way a Fabius Bile List makes for fun and should be played in games where the opponent has the same mindsetk:.

As a side note ... Red Corsairs? EWWWW.:so_happy:


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## Atilak (Nov 28, 2008)

I made some mathammer..

Zergs versus Possesed
208pts zerg unit is 8zergs with fist - 212pts poss is 7possesed with MOK

*
Possesed - Scour/Fleet on foot (2/6 of possible results)*

Zerg charged and win 6 to 0 (last Possesed dead from No retreat!) -*LOSS*
Possesed charged and loss 4,5 to 3 -*LOSS*
*
Posssed FNP (1/6 of possible results)*

Zerg charged and win 4 to 1 (one Possesed dead fron No retreat!) - *LOSS*
Possesed charged and tie 3-3 - *TIE*

*Possesed Furious charge (1/6 of possible results)*

Zerg charged and win 6 to 0 (last Possesed dead from No retreat!) *-LOSS*
Possesed charged and win 4 to 3 *- WIN!*

*Possesed Rending (1/6 of possible results)*

Zerg charged and win 6 to 0 (last Possesed dead from No retreat!) *-LOSS*
Possesed charged and tie 4,5 to 4,5 - *TIE*

*Possesed POWER WEAPON! (1/6 of possible results)*

Zerg charged and win 6 to 0 (last Possesed dead from No retreat!) *-LOSS*
Possesed charged and win 8 to 4,5 - *WIN!*


Result! - No setup will win both types of combat.. Only 2 of 6 results(furious,power) are able to win when charge. Only one(FNP) is able to not be annihilated on defense. 2 of 6(FNP,Rending) are able to TIE on charge.

Thats CC to another "pure" CC unit from CSM army.
Also Possesed has no pistols and no antitank.

I definitely agree that they are only for fun based games.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I hate these comparisons of which one would win in a fight. We already know that the zerkers win, but since the chances of your posessed meeting an equal-costing unit of zerkers are quite small, compared to the chances of them meeting any other type of unit, it does not help us much.

Zerkers are better than posessed. I think the point has been made many times over. Zerkers kill more marines and take less casualties (because they strike first on the charge) against almost any opposition. A zerker skull champ can have a power fist and they get guns if they want them, making them more versatile, scoring, and flat out more powerful point for point, or even one on one.

So enough about zerkers, this is a thread about posessed. Is there a good way to use posessed or not is the question, not whether we should take them in the first place. We've heard all the arguments for not taking them, now what are the arguments in favour?


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## Atilak (Nov 28, 2008)

Someguy said:


> I hate these comparisons of which one would win in a fight. We already know that the zerkers win, but since the chances of your posessed meeting an equal-costing unit of zerkers are quite small, compared to the chances of them meeting any other type of unit, it does not help us much.
> 
> Zerkers are better than posessed. I think the point has been made many times over. Zerkers kill more marines and take less casualties (because they strike first on the charge) against almost any opposition. A zerker skull champ can have a power fist and they get guns if they want them, making them more versatile, scoring, and flat out more powerful point for point, or even one on one.
> 
> So enough about zerkers, this is a thread about posessed. Is there a good way to use posessed or not is the question, not whether we should take them in the first place. We've heard all the arguments for not taking them, now what are the arguments in favour?


They can be quite good with mark of tzeentch. 4+ invul make them hard, but cost 40pts. You can play them as retinue for kharn and have good chance that they survive his wrath on 4+ invul but you risk that they will have scout or fleet and cant use it with IC joined..

I think that there is no all around aspect which they can be use for.. You can always find other CSM unit better point/effect wise..


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Someguy said:


> Is there a good way to use posessed or not is the question, not whether we should take them in the first place. We've heard all the arguments for not taking them, now what are the arguments in favour?


I take them to help people learn how to play the game.


And to let tau win every so often.

But as a serious argument for them:
Mark of tzeentch is a fantastic all-around mark to keep them stomping around, making a mess of everything that tries to snuff them on the inv save. They're quite decent at fending off alot of orks without a powerklaw, but not in any point-effective manner.

Uhm...I used to take them alot. I liked rolling for daemonkin and getting "powerweapon".

Seriously, I'm trying my best but drawing a blank. They're a funny fluffy unit, that I love to take next to my chaos lords and dreads.(And waves of spawn.)


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

That's fair enough. I don't expect people to invent some magic way of winning GTs with these guys. Some units just aren't very good.

I think the problem for a lot of new chaos players is that these guys come in the battleforce. Normally, I'd recommend battleforces to anyone starting a new army, but in the case of CSM you get some of the more mediocre units. Even so, we may as well look at the best ways to use them since there's not a lot of point telling people to take them back to the shop. At least they also get a squad of zerkers that they can use.


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## WoRLoKKeD (Apr 1, 2008)

Someguy said:


> So enough about zerkers, this is a thread about posessed. Is there a good way to use posessed or not is the question, not whether we should take them in the first place. We've heard all the arguments for not taking them, now what are the arguments in favour?


I personally use Possessed almost all the time in both the Slaanesh and Tzeentch loadouts for my CSM, and I'd say that while they're not easy to play with, they're by no means a bad/weak unit. 

*First argument in favour: It's a game of chance you can't lose.* No matter what you roll, you're getting something mildly useful at worst and incredibly, stompingly awesome at best. 
Example? 
You're going against Tank-heavy guard. You roll Rending. So long as you can get close enough, you're laughing and they're dying. At worst, you get Scout. This still lets you take a scout move to get them as best out of the LOS of the big guns as possible, quite possibly blocking off an important flank route at the same time. 
The trick is to think on your toes and reap the benefits as much as possible. 
(As an addition to this, there's no chance of them deciding it'd be hilarious to chase a butterfly that meanders across the battlefield with devastating effects, unlike certain Chaos Dreads...) 

*Second argument in favour: No ranged, sure.* But they're beasts in CC, fairly comparable to CC Termies. Only, they have a higher strength and an inferior save. From experience, they are more than capable of doing the damage before snuffing it, though, especially if you can use their Daemonkin roll to get an advantage (Read: Anything except Scout, really. And even that can be used in preparation to block off a route or something.) 

*Third argument in favour: They're both fun and fluffy.* Possessed are Chaos in it's purest form, only without the chance of waking up with three arses or something. It's all of the perks with none of the waking up an invertebrate spawn. And they look awesome, to boot, even before conversion. 

Finally, again, no matter what the roll is, it's not negative. Using them in a tourney can swing the tide greatly in your favour, although it can turn round and bite you in the arse. They're a high risk / high pay potential unit. In casual games, they're a great way to keep you on your toes and thinking of alternative strategies. As I said to someone in the chat the other day, if you're going into a game revolving around dice with a concrete strategy that can't afford a ratio of error/chance/what-have-you, you're going about the game the wrong way. 

Just my two penneth worth.


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## Wu-Tang-Tau (Apr 2, 2009)

I wouldn't waste my effort with them. Use berserkers!


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