# What do we know about the ll and Xl legions?



## cheeto (Apr 1, 2011)

I've read some things suggesting the Grey Knights might be one of the two deleted legions but that was just speculation. I just think it's curious that there would be two missing legions. Even if their primarchs were never found, the legion would still have been established. Could be as simple as they were miscarriages... thoughts?


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

cheeto said:


> I've read some things suggesting the Grey Knights might be one of the two deleted legions but that was just speculation. I just think it's curious that there would be two missing legions. Even if their primarchs were never found, the legion would still have been established. Could be as simple as they were miscarriages... thoughts?



The Grey Knights was created at the end of the Horus Heresy, effectively Astartes 2.0. I strongly recommend reading the GK codex.


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## cheeto (Apr 1, 2011)

Brother Lucian said:


> The Grey Knights was created at the end of the Horus Heresy, effectively Astartes 2.0. I strongly recommend reading the GK codex.


I'd love too but I can only read so many books at any given moment! :biggrin:


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

cheeto said:


> I'd love too but I can only read so many books at any given moment! :biggrin:


Not that much fluff in it to read, it is an army book after all.


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## Machiavellismx (Sep 11, 2011)

I know there has been lots (and lots) of theories about the missing two legions, but haven't Games Workshop stated very clearly that they are simply there to allow gamers to make original legions and chapters? The idea is one missing legion went to Chaos, the other stayed loyal, allowing gamers of either sway to make their own legion/chapter without having to stick to the official ones.

There have been mentions of them, in one of the Horus Heresy novels he visits the Gene-tanks and "feels the untapped glories within" but I feel thats just for the readers enjoyment. They'll never be filled in as that would take away the market for original ideas for the gamers. I guess the best answer I found was they're what you want to make them, because there is no official answer, so they really are blank slates for you to do your own thing with.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Check out the FAQ. It links numerous threads here on Heresy on the II and XI Legions, including quotes from authors Et cetera.

Oh, and the Grey Knights are certainly not one of the two lost Legions. And this should be in the Fluff Forum, not BL.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

well, if one went chaos, then Lorgar wasn't really the "first heretic"...


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## cheeto (Apr 1, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Check out the FAQ. It links numerous threads here on Heresy on the II and XI Legions, including quotes from authors Et cetera.
> 
> Oh, and the Grey Knights are certainly not one of the two lost Legions. And this should be in the Fluff Forum, not BL.



Thanks. In retrospect, yeah, I should have posted this else where. A flu hit me like a freight train yesterday and I haven't been quite right since. My bad!


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## Duke_Leto (Dec 11, 2010)

As said above GW studio left 2 legions so players could design their own fluff...

However, I have always liked the idea that the Legion of the Damned was one of the two legions expunged from history and that they are somehow paying penance for whatever evil deed they perpetrated!

(In the Dan Abnett VLOGS someone suggests that the LOTD are in fact the various loyalists from the Traitor Legions who did not stand with Horus - I like that too).


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Duke_Leto said:


> As said above GW studio left 2 legions so players could design their own fluff...
> 
> However, I have always liked the idea that the Legion of the Damned was one of the two legions expunged from history and that they are somehow paying penance for whatever evil deed they perpetrated!
> 
> (In the Dan Abnett VLOGS someone suggests that the LOTD are in fact the various loyalists from the Traitor Legions who did not stand with Horus - I like that too).


I think youve confused the Grey Knights and the Legion of the Damned. The LOTD was first observed in the 41th millenium. The Grey Knights have been hinted at having members from the traitor legions that did not side with horus.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Damned


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

And unless the fluff has changed, the LotD are whats left of the fire hawks chapter.


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## Duke_Leto (Dec 11, 2010)

fynn said:


> And unless the fluff has changed, the LotD are whats left of the fire hawks chapter.


I didn't know that. Thanks.


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## Duke_Leto (Dec 11, 2010)

Brother Lucian said:


> I think youve confused the Grey Knights and the Legion of the Damned. The LOTD was first observed in the 41th millenium. The Grey Knights have been hinted at having members from the traitor legions that did not side with horus.
> 
> http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Damned


No I didn't confuse them with the GK - I just meant that I *like* the idea of the LOTD being one of the lost legions. It would no doubt require the fluff to be retconned (not for the first time, just look at the GK themselves in the most recent codex).


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

cheeto said:


> Even if their primarchs were never found, the legion would still have been established. Could be as simple as they were miscarriages... thoughts?


They were found alright. In the short story _The Lightening Tower_, Rogal Dorn stands in a court yard that contains statues of all the primarchs, and he reflects on the seperate tragedies of both the missing primarchs and their legions.

Then in _Prospero Burns_ I think it's Russ himself who talks about it not being the first time the SWs were sent to sanction an allegedly rogue Legion. So we know at least one of them fell foul of the Emperor in a most extreme way, for whatever reason. Considering how lenient he was by comparison with other legions that displeased him for a variety of reasons, like the NL, TS and WB, they really must have pissed him off in a big way.


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

They were never born - Yawn

They were never found - Yawn 

They were the Grey Knights - Yawn

The were the Legion of the Dammed - Yawn 

Sigmar is a lost Primarch - Mega Yawn

All these staggeringly unimaginative and boring theories have been suggested countless times before. Thankfully none of them are correct.


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## Duke_Leto (Dec 11, 2010)

mal310 said:


> They were never born - Yawn
> 
> They were never found - Yawn
> 
> ...


Well you're a little ray of sunshine aren't you


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

The point I'm trying to make is this. The whole lost legion thing provides a blank space for some imaginative and creative storytelling. Unfortunately the theories put forward on these threads and elsewhere are hopeless! How is "they were never discovered or they were never born" even remotely interesting. Surely a scenario where they were found like all the others and lead their legions but something (insert great story) happened and it all went bad, would be more interesting and fun. 

I'm afraid the 'idea' that they were the Legion of the Dammed is just the same, its unimaginative and frankly boring in my opinion. The Legion of the Dammed is its own mystery (Fire Hawks) and an interesting one at that. Nothing is gained by joining these together.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

They are meant to be a blank space for people to have a traitor force/Space Marine chapter that was not a descendant of one of the named legions.

However I personally would love one of the lost legions (the good one) to be the Angry Marines.

Possibly the Pretty or Reasonable Marines make up the other.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

The Politically Correct Marines. They fire rubber bolts.


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## Durant (Aug 24, 2011)

I think to sate the appetites for fluff of those of us who do not like loose ends BL should commission a set of non canon novels or a book of shorts on different takes on the fates of the missing legions.

I know my head would explode if such an announcement was made :grin:


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Space Wolves ate them.


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## GeneralSturnn (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm still in the process of making my own Loyalist legion(of course I know that means my Primarch cannot join matches, because, well, for one, he'd be OP sort of and 2, the last Primarch I ever heard joining battle was Angron, but he was taken out a couple years ago right?)


not to mention, I'd be breaking the lore in that all loyal Primarchs are either Dead, or MIA, which I won't do that, the only time I'd let my Primarch join the fight is if it were Apocalypse, maybe.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Space Wolves ate them.


Pretty sure the running theory is that the Ultramarines ate them--henced why they're two and a half times bigger than the second largest Legion.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

That theory has been dismissed actually by ADB himself. It's now canon that the Space Wolves with the minor help of the Word Bearers wiped them out from existence.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Space Wolves tenderised them and prepared the meal then


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> That theory has been dismissed actually by ADB himself. It's now canon that the Space Wolves with the minor help of the Word Bearers wiped them out from existence.


Couldja link me the source that hammered the last nail into that theory's coffin?

I've never really been a fan of the UM grabbing the left overs, anyway.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Legion II are the Reasonable Marines, and their Chapter Master is wandering around dazed, sweaty and confused in an alternate universe where he is known as Jean Lu Picard.


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

cheeto said:


> What do we know about the ll and Xl legions?


No, no, no guys... THIS is what happened to the II and XI Legions!






If you liked that you can find more of the artist's stuff here.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

hailene said:


> Couldja link me the source that hammered the last nail into that theory's coffin?
> 
> I've never really been a fan of the UM grabbing the left overs, anyway.


I knew you'd ask for a source. 

So not in the mood to scroll through all of ADB's posts right now but maybe when I get high on caffeine I'll try to lol.


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## Durant (Aug 24, 2011)

Uber Ork said:


> No, no, no guys... THIS is what happened to the II and XI Legions!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL, Great spoof :laugh:


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

I know right? :laugh: You should check out more of the artists stuff. It's pretty funny. :biggrin:


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## shadowhawk2008 (Apr 15, 2011)

MontytheMighty said:


> well, if one went chaos, then Lorgar wasn't really the "first heretic"...


I understood the plot to mean that Argel Tal was the First Heretic, not Lorgar.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Reading The Outcast Dead at the moment, and this isn't really a spoiler at all, but they mention Magnus and how his actions(breaching Terra) will cause the Emperor to make an example of him, and when someone asks what that means the answer is

"It will mean the Wolves will be loosed again"

So whilst Prospero Burns and other sources heavily implied that the Wolves had taken part in the destruction of at least one of the missing legions, its now confirmed that they definetly were loosed at least once.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> That theory has been dismissed actually by ADB himself. It's now canon that the Space Wolves with the minor help of the Word Bearers wiped them out from existence.


The _theory_ that the XIII Legion embraced the remaining Astartes of Legions II and XI has not been discredited by AD-B. It was merely pointed out that it was rumour and gossip and not to be taken as fact, that doesn't necessarily mean it didn't actually happen.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

It's actually been confirmed people. They were infected by the LMFAO shuffle and couldn't stop. The Imperium saw it as a Slanaashi affliction and the wolves destroyed them by doing the watootsie. It was a bloodbath.


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Space Wolves ate them.


BA are the vampires... so logically, they ate them?

anyway troll. like. a boss. That way. you. will. have. no. friends. lol i so funny isn i


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