# When Primarchs Die



## meinhardt (Sep 22, 2008)

When a demon dies there is usually a lot of soul screaming and drama.

When a particularly powerful sorceror dies there is also a lot of drama.

When Horus's soul is vaporized by the Emperor nothing happens but death which is understandable.

Primarchs are tough as hell and even tougher to kill. Guilliman got his throat split and made it to a stasis pod before he died. Sanguinius had to be killed by the baddest primarch. As far as we know FOR SURE per the HH books is that Manus dies on Istaan by getting his head lopped off. 


(i know sanguinius dies later but that offical story has not been released im talking about the series so far specifically Ferrus Manus)

In almost all primarch literature they talk about how the greatest powers are held up inside their bodies. Maybe even traces of the Emperors soul. The pinnacle of the Emperors science that obviously incorporates things having to do with warp power and souls (golden throne) (astronomican)

What Im wondering is what happens to a Primarchs soul after he dies. If Slaanesh gets a big O when she eats an eldar soul dont you think they would love to eat a Primarchs? 

So wtf do you think happened to Ferrus Manus' better half when he died?

If you want to write-they are creations and not real people so they dont have souls dont bother ive heard that a million times!


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

interesting topic, i'm intrigued to read the responses.

CP


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I really don't know to be honest, though what I got from _A Thousand Son_ was that Primarchs were created from the warp. I could be wrong. But if this is so, then perhaps their soul does blend with the rest of the warp and therefore becomes nothing.

However, because this is the idea you don't want to hear, I tend to always give a crazy answer for something every so now and then. I'd like to believe, that because the Emperor created them, that he exerted part of his energy and soul to make them who they are including using energy from the warp. When they die, their souls go to some artifact that the emperor secretly has by the Golden Throne. Much like the eldar and their Infinity Circuit, when they die, their souls will be consumed into that artifact until they are all dead. Now because the chaos gods own at least 6 of their primarchs because of that daemon prince rule that they are daemons and are now owned by their patrons, when the Emperor gets the rest of the primarchs deaths, he will be somewhat weaker than he normally would be if he had all of them. So right when all non daemon prince primarchs are dead, the Emperor will seal off all the damages done by the webway by the golden throne, get up and be like time to die you four bitches.
:biggrin:

hahaha. Its a crazy theory, but hey, I warned you, and thinking that BL or the 40k will ever end in with nothing more than a stalemate is crazy too.


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## hellsteath (Jun 29, 2010)

Crazy as it may sound it kinda makes sense, If the emperor had the ability and forsight to control humanitys movements for nearly 40000 years pre herasy he may well of had that sort of idea as a Just in case messure.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I wonder if my idea is crazy enough to go into the _*Bats%*t Crazy Theories*_ hall of fame.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

I've seen crazier shit in _it_.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

hellsteath said:


> Crazy as it may sound it kinda makes sense, If the emperor had the ability and forsight to control humanitys movements for nearly 40000 years pre herasy he may well of had that sort of idea as a Just in case messure.


Take into account though that towards the end of the Great Crusade, in the build up to the Heresy, the Emperor lost most of his cognitive abilites (so says the _Collective Visions_).


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## Kulzanar (Aug 10, 2010)

I agree with Ckcrawford. The Imperial Guard believes that when they die, the Emperor calls out to their souls. That they unite with him in death and give him strenght to battle that which can not be seen (so warp actually). It is quite known amongst the armies that the Emperor fights the things in the warp and most guardsmen that these days live have seen the horrors it can emit. The warp isn't that unknown anymore and they know it's the power behind chaos and that the Emperor fights that being, or so they believe. My guess is there is some soul collecting thingy which harvests the souls of those that bravely gave their life for the imperium of man. 

For Ferrus Manus, I think his soul might be entrapped in the warp since his death by the hand of his beloved brother, which has to endure with the horror he committed forever. Plagued and agonized by the demon himself.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

He was slain with the sword given to him by horus or the one from the laer temple. Either way i would think his soul was consumed by the weapon fulgrim wielded. I seem to remember that it healed his wounds also, using the power of the slain primarch.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

CotE, the Emperor lost his _pre_-cognitive abilities; I know he was stressed but he could still think!
ck, I agree with part of what you say. But, I don't think there is some acrcane artifact by the Golden Throne that hoovers up any free-floating Primarch's souls, but rather the essence that came directly from the Emperor returns to him.
I am very much af a mind that the Emperor has almost personified his seperate personality traits and made them flesh. The Primarchs are, in some sense, an actual part of their father that can live its own life. When the Primarch dies the soul isn't taken by any of the chaos gods, nor is it subsumed back into the warp, or not all of it, but most if it is already claimed by the Emperor, much like Slaanesh with the Eldar. However, there is raw warp power inside the Primarch as well as the Emperor's own power- it would be this that returns to the warp. It might even retain some of its former Primarch personality, too powerful to fade away entirely, the golden touch of the Emperor too powerful to allow the chaos gods to claim it for themselves. This could offer a mechanism for the dead Primarchs to return. Under the correct circumstances this remaining Primarch warp-shadow is somehow reconnected with the emotions of its life and what it was created to do, the vast play of human emotion swirling through the warp (which would be the case with any incident big enough to cause a dead Primarch to return from death) resonating and empowering the shadow back to life.
As to why the chaos gods can, seemingly, claim the souls of the traitor Primarchs, those souls were given willingly, allowed to be corrupted by a concious act of the will. 

GFP


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> ck, I agree with part of what you say. But, I don't think there is some acrcane artifact by the Golden Throne that hoovers up any free-floating Primarch's souls, but rather the essence that came directly from the Emperor returns to him.


I thought the "artifact" kind of makes the theory more interesting.
Otherwise, I conjured that idea from my ass. 

On another note though, I did like how GFP expands the idea that the primarchs are essentially part of the emperor and that basically no matter what happens they will be claimed by him. That would be good for the Imperium because he will need all his strength to muster his might against the chaos gods and reuniting the fanatics of the Imperium. I assume that many parts of the Inquisition will hate his return very much like Logar did after the Emperor told him off, and their might be some civil war.

On the other hand, those primarchs that have turned and are essentially consumed by chaos; if they don't get absorbed then the Emperor will be facing more problems in his return.

All speculated of course.:scratchhead:


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

What happens when Primarchs die? I'd say lightening storms and the person to kill him takes their memories and strength whilst mumbling "In the end there can only be one...."


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

In your best Christopher Lambert voice....


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

In all honesty... probably nothing. Except for Magnus, due to his super psyker abilities, if he was to cark it, there would be some major warp disruptions. As for the other primarchs (assuming this is before they became daemon princes) if they were to die, they would just... well die. Like a space marine. They were not gods after all. And with the exception of Magnus, they were not psykers.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Except for the wolf, he was creating psykic screams that were frying the minds of psykers while living.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Read the end of Fulgrim to get an idea of what happens when a Primarch dies. If it hadn't happened by the hand of a daemon-possessed Primarch, in some isolation, then there could well have been some major fallout for the one who dealt the killing blow, and whoever happened to be around them.
When the IFs boarded the _Sword of Sacrelige_ to recover Dorn's body, everyone was dead; I imagine that a goodly number of traitors were killed by the fury of a Primarch's soul being torn from its body, especially if some of his genesons were still fighting.

GFP


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## bane-of-banes (Sep 9, 2010)

interior crocodile alligator loljk, probably something off the charts sorta crazy, they'd probably become something of the likes of the now-in-stasis god emperor, and that's some interesting stuff GFP, kudos to that!


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## DonFer (Apr 23, 2010)

I'd like to expand on the Idea that the Primarchs were created from the warp. This could have interesting implications. This for one, can be the actual deal, the emperor struck with the fell powers. This could be the reason they scattered all 20 of them across the galaxy (I mean scattering them acorss the galaxy instead of say.. possess them, is prety much a very lame and under-powered tactic IMHO). If they indeed were created from the warp, then much like the daemons they can regenerate themselves (of course it can take a while) and eventualy come back.

Personally I like to think that in order to create the Primarchs, Empy had to tamper with the warp and his own soul. But that's just me.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

DonFer said:


> I'd like to expand on the Idea that the Primarchs were created from the warp. This could have interesting implications. This for one, can be the actual deal, the emperor struck with the fell powers. This could be the reason they scattered all 20 of them across the galaxy (I mean scattering them acorss the galaxy instead of say.. possess them, is prety much a very lame and under-powered tactic IMHO).


The release of _A Thousand Sons_ only furthered the support for this school of thought. There is no doubt that the Primarchs were forged in some way utilising the warp. This coupled with the revelation from Magnus (that the Emperor had indeed bargained with the Chaos Powers) seems to suggest that the Primarchs came into being at the injunction of the Chaos gods. 

In _False Gods_, the Chaos gods reveal to Horus (that according to them) the Emperor did indeed make a bargain with them in order to muster the energy needed to create the Primarchs, and subsequently broke his pact. This is why the Chaos gods struck back at the Emperor the only way they could; via the Primarchs.

And as for why the Chaos gods scattered the Primarchs rather than anything else, was because thats all they were able to do. In _False Gods_ then inform Horus that with the power the Emperor stole from them they were unable to strike back at him directly. Now I know these were the words of daemons and warp entities, but to me they actually sound highly plausable.



DonFer said:


> If they indeed were created from the warp, then much like the daemons they can regenerate themselves (of course it can take a while) and eventualy come back.


The Primarchs may have been forged using the warp, but they were not warp entities like daemons. The only reason daemons can 'regenerate' is because they don't have a physical presence to begin with, thus when they are banished from realspace their essence isn't actually affected. The same doesn't apply to the Primarchs.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

When the ones loyal to the Emperor die, they will join him at the golden throne, but when the traitors die, they get rapped by Slanesh...


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

When the Loyal ones die, they get raped in Slannesh's realm. When the Traitors die, they do the rappen :laugh:.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I hate to be so pedantic but its 'raped' ^^ unless of course they are having a rap battle with slaanesh and co

The HH series does seem to be expanding on how the Primarchs came to being. Remember when Sanguinius died his death left an imprint on his entire legion and sucessors, true in part to the brutality of his death, but none the less, a prime example of what a primarchs death can cause


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

Empy used bits of his own soul and bits of Chaos divided and undivided to make Primarch stew and then ran off with the pot leaving Chaos to starve. Yeah that would piss off most people, so unable to punch the Emp in his eye, they did the next best thing, and tried to kick over the pot.


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> Remember when Sanguinius died his death left an imprint on his entire legion and sucessors, true in part to the brutality of his death, but none the less, a prime example of what a primarchs death can cause


Good point. That could suggest, albeit tenuously, that some of the primarchs whose fates are unknown (Russ, Corax, Vulkan, Lion etc) havent died yet, or at least haven't met excessively gruesome ends, further enhancing their mystique.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Horus made sure that Sanguinius death was as horrific as he could possibly make it, with the intention that it would curse his sons and release their dark side (which had already been dragged from the depths of their souls in the Signus campaign)- I doubt the death of any other Primarch would have the same effect.


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Yeah I know, just teasing it out a bit.


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> Horus made sure that Sanguinius death was as horrific as he could possibly make it, with the intention that it would curse his sons and release their dark side (which had already been dragged from the depths of their souls in the Signus campaign)- I doubt the death of any other Primarch would have the same effect.


Just to torment them, or to possibly have them turn to Chaos ?


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

The Blood Angels would never turn to chaos. I guess Horus did it to put the Blood Angles fighting on Terra into disarray. Hoping that his forces would overrun them in the confusion. Except his didn't count on them going all berserker and kicking some mega traitor ass.

Thats just an edujmakated guess...


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Whilst it might be the the BAs would never turn to chaos, it's probably even more effective to make them fear that they _might_. This leaves the entire Legion and any successors second-guessing themselves, their motivations and methods. Can they ever truly cut-loose in battle with the fear that they mightn't be able to control themselves anging over them? What would happen if the shining sons of Sanguinius all of a sudden, after the climax of battle start rampaging through the Imperial survivors, drinking their still-warm blood and eating their flesh, whilst the assembled ranks of Generals and high administratum Magi watch on? They must, each on his own, afraid that this is an all too real threat.

GFP


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I don't think Horus knew killing Sanguinius in such a way would curse his entire legion, he just really wanted to kill him painfully as he could. Theres no way he could have known that if he was to murder Sanguinius so brutally that it would forever curse his legion. And even so it's still a example of what a Primarchs death can do


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Unless of course Horus had been made aware of what the Bloodthirster Ka'Bandha (spelling?) had done to the Blood Angels in the Signus Cluster, then he'd probably have known that he was making the BA's curse worse.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Fair point. Either way it would take a Primarch dying to create such a curse, couldn't have happened if it was just some top Blood Angel commander (well so i assume)


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The 'curse' itself was always present, it was the Blood thirster Ka'bandha that purposely made it worse in the Signus Cluster, both the Black Rage and Red Thirst were already a minor part of the Legion before then- the death of Sangunius just made the Black Rage worse (Ka'Bandha was the one who worsened the Red Thirst curse).


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