# Holy shit when did Necrons become the answer to DE.



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Retraction
_-Please ignore the opinions I presented in this thread. For although my statments had basis in reason my points and opinions were unecessarily reactionary in nature. I retract my inflamitory staments and oplogies to anyone I may have offended with my expressed opinions. In the future I will try to aviod making staments when I lack the time, and reflection to contribute sound and productive arguments to further the hobby._


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## eyescrossed (Mar 31, 2011)

-looks at my Dark Eldar-

Well fuck.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

more proof that Ward is a gay asshole who makes his Codecies WAY too powerful.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> more proof that Ward is a gay asshole who makes his Codecies WAY too powerful.


Have you even read the damn codex? That is one god damn unit, and even then the unit he is on about is 100 points, it has front armor 11, and the guns don't even have an AP value. ALso, explain to me when Codex:Space Marines became "WAY too powerful," because I would love to learn about that.


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## willydstyle (Sep 30, 2011)

The fact that they have 24" range and are on a unit that will presumably use the large oval "flying" base means that since your DE stuff moves 12" and fires 36", you still have the advantage over something that can move 12" and fire 24", and has a helluva time trying to hide behind anything.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

gen.ahab said:


> Have you even read the damn codex? That is one god damn unit, and even then the unit he is on about is 100 points, it has front armor 11, and the guns don't even have an AP value. ALso, explain to me when Codex:Space Marines became "WAY too powerful," because I would love to learn about that.


 
I seriously doubt he has even picked it up to look at it.

He sounds like these guys who hate Matt Ward no matter what.

Also he is ignorant to the fact that Matt Ward was not the lone contributor to the Codex, it was a collaboration of several people.

To finish off all i have heard and seen at some of the GW stores i have visted the concensus from Necron players is all good, not one complaint.


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## gabool (Apr 3, 2008)

the tesla weapons arnt that big a deal since their range will only be 18" against most DE tanks and then a 5+ invul.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Sweet! Just what the Blood Angels need in an ally! My Blood Chrons are gonna rock!


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I hope you are kidding. If you are I reccomend you use the orange 'sarcasm' color.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Luke, he was talking about the reduced range due to Night Shields. So they are 18".


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

issue is, DE can be beaten by everyone but can beat everyone, having THIS hard of a counter makes their power that much lessened.

now, just to confirm though, doesnt the night scythe have that gay ass quantum shielding?


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## willydstyle (Sep 30, 2011)

Necrons is so far from a "hard counter" to DE to claim they are is just silly. The DE still outrange most Necron guns, and sure, you might be able to blow up DE transports easily, but so what, everyone can, and they only lose 60ish points of stuff when you do. When you blow up a Necron transport, you are doing a much more significant amount of damage. This thread is ridiculous.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

to make a point here, Luke, Most of the DE Vehicles are also "fast" so playing smart can keep them out of range of those annoying guns, especially if you add in the effectiveness of Night Shields, which, though not always optimal, can make a huge difference when dealing with annoying 24" retardedness.


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## willydstyle (Sep 30, 2011)

No, I actually already did offer some "counterevidence": the fact that while one specific necron unit has fairly decent move-and-fire capability, DE units still beat it. Also, if one of those open-topped transports moves, the guys inside can only shoot 12", so that's a *massive* (sarcasm intended) 18" threat range.

The thing about DE is that if you're playing them right, they don't much care about losing a venom, or even a few venoms, because they have lots more where that came from.

If anything, DE have the advantage over Necrons, though it's not a huge one.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Crons can only close that gap with vehicles, else they are as slow as the next guy.

Add night shields and most units in the Cron dex fall just short (24" becoming 18" thus 18+12+2 = 32, not 36) as you cant move more then combat speed still if you want to shoot units from inside. and if you turbo boost you cant disembark.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> issue is, DE can be beaten by everyone but can beat everyone, having THIS hard of a counter makes their power that much lessened.
> 
> now, just to confirm though, doesnt the night scythe have that gay ass quantum shielding?


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Wait, so you don't even have the dark eldar codex and presumeably don't actually play dark eldar then. Yet you create a thread bemoaning the availability of autocannon strength weapons in the necron codex as some sort of auto win against venom spam armies? 

Yes necrons will be able to swat dark eldar vehicles out of the sky, but every army can do this already (well tyranids find it harder than most). Just about every race's basic shooty troops can damage dark eldar vehicles.

Or what about an Imperial guard mech spam army with a plethora of strength 6 and 7 weaponary (multi lasers and autocannons) which chews through a gun boat list. The fragiliy of dark eldar vehciles is nothing new. I think you're making a larger deal of this than it is.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

> That is a far more reasonable argument. My opinion on the DE debate still stands however. As the fact remains that necrons have one advantage over DE, and that is the fact that basic DE infatry pose little to no threat to necron vehicles while a disembarked necron immortal squad is still a huge threat to DE choices, and do to enhanced survivability even more wounds will have to be caused to stop them then other MeQ style enemies.


true, but think how much damage a disembarking blasterborn squad would do to cron tanks, not much left


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## ThoseKrazyKasrkin (Aug 2, 2011)

LukeValantine said:


> I know everyone doesn't have the codex yet, but please don't post outright incorrect information.


Nuff said


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## the-ad-man (Jan 22, 2010)

LukeValantine said:


> I have lots of experience against them, and have read the codex, but do not myself own it.
> 
> This thread was mostly a reaction to me realizing the sheer amount sr7 hits a necron list can reliably introduce. After playing marines for most of my gaming life it was humbling to see a none Geck army that could easily have 20+ str 7 shots with out list tailoring.
> 
> Also note that many armies have the ability to fight DE spam, but I was stunned to see a army that does it naturally without tailoring.


so this thread was a knee-jerk reaction to seeing one unit in the codex?
can you please think points through first, this is why some people are so iritated on this thread.

if a DE player playes as slowly as a guard army, it will get shot to shit, but they wont, DE have more than enough speed and toys(non sexual toys!) to run circles around necrons. 

you forget dark lances, they will count nightcythes as av12 until the first psn which will then be av11, thats MUCH tougher than their own vehicles.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> more proof that Ward is a gay asshole who makes his Codecies WAY too powerful.


Is that you're way of saying you have no idea what you're talking about or how to play the game. Do you just take your toy soldiers and hit them together to see who wins?


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## Sworn Radical (Mar 10, 2011)

*You know, reading some of the more ... bloke and ranting comments all over this thread, I just might start thinking it's the week of the ...
*









*
... again.

Seriously people ... dark eldar sex toys ? Gay ass quantum shields ? Silly arguments to point things out as oh-so-overpowered when they're clearly not or simply have your beloved army at a disadvantage ? Get a life ... *


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

LukeValantine said:


> I have lots of experience against them, and have read the codex, but do not myself own it.
> 
> This thread was mostly a reaction to me realizing the sheer amount sr7 hits a necron list can reliably introduce. After playing marines for most of my gaming life it was humbling to see a none Geck army that could easily have 20+ str 7 shots with out list tailoring.
> 
> Also note that many armies have the ability to fight DE spam, but I was stunned to see a army that does it naturally without tailoring.


So the entire GK codex somehow got past you? With the amount of 24" psycannons, psybacks, rifleman dreads, GKs can just as easily bring this scary amount of firepower to bear against DE, without extreme list tailoring. 

And at least that is not AP -

This is a bit of a kneejerk thread. It wouldn't be a good codex if it wouldn't be able to cope with some of the current powerhouse builds (and DE venomspam is one of them).


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## Warsmith Drewgie (Oct 26, 2011)

I haven't read the Necrons codex myself but since the DE are my main army currently (until CSM get a new book) all I can say is I look forward to facing them. It sounds like they might have some problematic units for me to deal with but that is okay because I like a challenge. Curse you Mat Ward for keeping my games interesting and enjoyable as well as helping to secure the ongoing success and survivability of my favorite gaming company.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

You want good protection vs. DE? Tactics. Knowing your enemy and employing your army so as to give you as many advantages and your opponent as many headaches as possible. Maximize your chances and you will win. Min-maxing lists against a specific army is stupid and unsportsmanlike.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

jaysen said:


> Sweet! Just what the Blood Angels need in an ally! My Blood Chrons are gonna rock!


and the downright pathetic thing is, thats actually fluffy now *feels really sick*


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Dark Eldar are delicious. They're like little canned meals in those flying take-out Chinese boxes.


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## aranelthemithra (Nov 1, 2011)

Try actually playing the match up. I have only played DE since I came back and the recurring theme in my battles is... my vehicles die. 

Orks kill them, blood angels kill them, space wolves kill them, sisters of battle kill them, eldar kill them.... see where I am going there. 

Well, my wife's army is necron... 

Guess what. 

Necron kill my vehicles too! 

But necron are pricey little units (i.e. they don't have massive troop numbers), and scarabs have proven to be annoying, reanimation protocol has been annoying, and Imotekh is annoying. But the standard strategies of DE apply and close combat is not something that Necrons are particularly fond of. 

Do Necron hold their own? In my small sampling which you know, actually includes having both codex, both armies and a table with some dice, yes, they have tools to keep it interesting. Is the match up favorable??? eh... tough to say with two very skilled players handling each army (I wouldn't even attempt to suggest I am skilled), but I would think DE have the edge just on what I have seen. 

But its nice to see necron proving competitive without actually seeming to represent the power creep people are so fond of "discussing" ...


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## H0RRIDF0RM (Mar 6, 2008)

LukeValantine said:


> Sweet jesus I never thought I would ever see so many muti shoting autocannon equivalents! Seriously without tailoring a list you can easily have upwards of 20 telsa auto cannon shots a turn! Sweet jesus I pity the poor bugger that spams venoms against a telsa heavy army.
> 
> Sure they only have range 24, but when most vehicles are skimmer or have rules to allow moving further and shooting that really doesn't matter against range 36" enemies. Hell with guass as the primary rule on every other gun you can get away spaming tesla cannons without losing anti heavy tank fighting power. Sure it starts to be a glass sword army, but damn Necrons look to be the guys to call on to fight those pointy eared space pirates!


The Necrons Codex has a more positive impact on the Dark Eldar's meta game then what you think. The imperial armies can no longer rely on Autocannons and Missle Launchers to perform the bulk of their dirty work. S7 and S8 in mass isn't effective against AV 13. As Necron competitive builds are produced the imperial armies will react by reducing the volume of AV fire power to include a S9 platform. A decrease in volume of fire power is very good for Dark Eldar as our vehicles are AV 10 and vulnerable to all shooting.

Necrons also have an obvious competitive build that abuse's night fighting; something the Dark Eldar don't fear. Necrons are also highly vulnerable to fast assualt units; something else the Dark Eldar have in mass. Did we forget Lance spam?

I was pretty happy being both a Necron and Dark Eldar player to know that the change to the meta game will be favorable for both factions.

Shame nobody will read this...


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## aranelthemithra (Nov 1, 2011)

H0RRIDF0RM said:


> The Necrons Codex has a more positive impact on the Dark Eldar's meta game then what you think. The imperial armies can no longer rely on Autocannons and Missle Launchers to perform the bulk of their dirty work. S7 and S8 in mass isn't effective against AV 13. As Necron competitive builds are produced the imperial armies will react by reducing the volume of AV fire power to include a S9 platform. A decrease in volume of fire power is very good for Dark Eldar as our vehicles are AV 10 and vulnerable to all shooting.
> 
> Necrons also have an obvious competitive build that abuse's night fighting; something the Dark Eldar don't fear. Necrons are also highly vulnerable to fast assualt units; something else the Dark Eldar have in mass. Did we forget Lance spam?
> 
> ...


I didn't consider the meta game, just the direct competition, but you make a great point about the night fighting. Imotekh really IS good... I think he's highly like to see good amounts of play.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I do appologies for getting a tad over exited about the necrons, but I did encounter a solid list that possess a problem for most DE venom spam lists.

Basically take a court of creptek's with veil of darkness attached to 4-7 ten man immortal squads as the core of the force. Then when you find your opponent is at his weakest or has yet to have the opportunity to shoot take every unit of immortals with a cyptek and deep strike them within 4-10" of the enemy vehicle of choice in the safest possible locations. If all goes well you will down 5 venoms before they get a chance to open fire, and without those venoms the DE will be hurting to kill enough of your force to stop this detachment of your army from killing all the units forced to leave their transports (True the DE player will most likely run the rest of his vehicles the hell out of range, but nothing is stopping you from veiling after them and killing all the remaining vehicles). 225pts a unit isn't cheap so the tactic isn't ideal, but it has the advantage that most DE venom spam lists take little CC competent units, or stuff to tamper with deep strike (To my experience form looking at online tournament lists and in game encounters.).

The numbers due support this tactic as every squad of immortals will induce 5 results on a venom if they get within rapid fire range with the deep strike. Unfortunately you are limited to how many of these units you can take, but even at 100opts game you can have up to 3 of these without crippling your army. Also do to being more resilient then a space marine you should not expect to lose more then 7-10 immortals in the retaliatory fire, but still a lot better then trying to out shoot DE.

Even though a list like this is fairly competent against most armies I do not expect it to be overly popular due to the draw backs of multiple deep strikes, and how people are for now far more entertained by the wackier stuff in the codex.

As other have vocalized their superior knowledge on the subject of DE I was hoping someone could give some feed back on the following list inspired by my minor discovery.

Speaking of DE though, I happen to have a friend that really wants to play against me when I get my army up. This particular individual plays the standard venom spam list, and in fact has such a long track record of power gaming with such types of lists and belittling the enemies armies that he finds few gamers in his area willing to play against his 5th edd armies (Still gets lots of vassal games though). Keeping this in mind I thought I would seek the opinion of the senior DE gamers of the effectiveness of the following list. As said gamers have tried to make it painfully clear that I lack a thorough understanding of em.

HQ 
Necron Overlord
-Resurrection orb, war scythe, Phaeron.
Royal court
-> Cryptek 1, Harbinger of despair, veil of darkness.
Cryptek, harbinger of despair, veil of darkness.

Troops
Immortals 2X10 
-Gauss blasters
Immortals X10, night scythe.

Heavy
Annihilation barge.


Opponents runs something similar to this at 1000pts

HQ
Archon

Elites 
blaster born
-venom transport with extra gun
Blaster born
-Venom transport with extra gun

Troops 
3-4X5 warriors, in venoms with extra gun.

Heavy
3Xravangers.

....while writing this I remembered I had a digital copy of the DE codex all along....duh.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Dude...any necron list is solid no mater how stupid the player using it.....So they are currently the answer to almost everything....Thus Wardhammer is silly.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Azkaellon said:


> Dude...any necron list is solid no mater how stupid the player using it.....So they are currently the answer to almost everything....Thus Wardhammer is silly.


Ok I was being in good homour up to this point about the crticisms that were leviad against my staments in this thread, but your coming off as bit of a ass hole when you frame the comment like that. 

I don't know when I became the bad guy for making a naive over exited statement then trying to rationally defend it, but seriously lay the hell off. You have moved well beyond the realm of making constructive criticism to the realm of personal insult when you call people stupid for making a naive statement. Seriously azkaellon its not like you to be this belligerent and negative.

Alternatively I may just be being overly defensive and misinterpreting you comment, but you can see from the comments that lead up to this post why such a interpretation is not the first that comes to mind.

Also I may not know the DE in and out but I am getting damn close to having a similiar understanding of crons to that of CSM (5-6 proxy games sinc eits release and 3-4 reviews of the ocdex). SO I feel confident when I say that crons are hardly the answer to everything. As the army has some crippling set backs, and limitation. However I am finding more and more that they are all around a stronger list then the 4th and are well in line with 5th. The one thing I am noticing more and more is the critical role that HQ's play, as they seem to be the core element of the min max lists.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> Ok I was being in good homour up to this point about the crticisms that were leviad against my staments in this thread, but your coming off as bit of a ass hole when you frame the comment like that.
> 
> I don't know when I became the bad guy for making a naive over exited statement then trying to rationally defend it, but seriously lay the hell off. You have moved well beyond the realm of making constructive criticism to the realm of personal insult when you call people stupid for making a naive statement. Seriously azkaellon its not like you to be this belligerent and negative.
> 
> ...


Im not trying to be an ass hole its just the power creep is pretty large, the only unit i have seen on the table so far for necrons that isn't better then anything in another book are the sniper dudes. On a side note i miss read what you posted and thought you where LOSING to necrons using dark eldar, Go go having multiple infections and insanity atm!


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Azkaellon said:


> Im not trying to be an ass hole its just the power creep is pretty large, the only unit i have seen on the table so far for necrons that isn't better then anything in another book are the sniper dudes. On a side note i miss read what you posted and thought you where LOSING to necrons using dark eldar, Go go having multiple infections and insanity atm!


So its looks like this was a simple miss communication. Best of health to you in the future.
"Also in the next week I will be starting a project log of my humble attempt at necrons (FWI they are very colorful)


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> So its looks like this was a simple miss communication. Best of health to you in the future.
> "Also in the next week I will be starting a project log of my humble attempt at necrons (FWI they are very colorful)


Link me via pm when its up....If you do Rainbow Crons i owe you a beer.

On a side note i am tempting to paint up 1000pts when i have some time in the new year and do a weathered Copper effect on the whole army. Considering it would be nice to have a shooty army since my BA and vampires...and Tomb Kings...And orks.......*sigh* Is anyone else starting to feel like matt ward is going to be the next head of gw? After all im sure 6th edition will be fantasy skirmish mode....


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

First off, the Necron list you faced was not legal. You can't have 3x VoD in a single Royal Court.
Secondly, the list is generally suboptimal and you should have been able to nuke it easily.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Azkaellon said:


> Im not trying to be an ass hole its just the power creep is pretty large, the only unit i have seen on the table so far for necrons that isn't better then anything in another book are the sniper dudes. On a side note i miss read what you posted and thought you where LOSING to necrons using dark eldar, Go go having multiple infections and insanity atm!


Not trying to be an asshole? Is it just natural to you then?

Necrons are good, they're as good as Dark Eldar, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Grey Knights etc.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> Not trying to be an asshole? Is it just natural to you then?
> 
> Necrons are good, they're as good as Dark Eldar, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Grey Knights etc.


Don't forget the mighty Tau!


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

jaysen said:


> Don't forget the mighty Tau!


I think it's probably fair to argue that the 5th Ed Codexes are better than the 4th ed ones, which does give you a two tier system, in 5th we have 

In 5th we have 

Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Space Wolves
Tyranids
Blood Angels
Dark Eldar
Grey Knights
Necrons

Now there are power levels within that, Space Wolves nearer the top, Tyranids nearer the bottom. But one thing they all have in common is multiple viable builds for a competitive army. 

In 4th we have

Chaos Daemons
Orks
Chaos Space Marines
Dark Angels
Eldar
Tau Empire
Black Templars

These guys are not the stars really, they're weaker than those 5th ed books in general and are all quite monobuildy. The 5th Ed ones not much more powerful but they are much much better books as they're more balanced and fun to play. Now I'm sure someone has a great story about how their Tau totally beat a Grey Knight list, that is unimportant.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I would argue that Daemons is the first 5th ed. codex. It was released only a few months before 5th ed., and already used all the 5th ed. terminology.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

It was released in 4th, with a 4th ed kinda power level and style.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

darklove said:


> I would argue that Daemons is the first 5th ed. codex. It was released only a few months before 5th ed., and already used all the 5th ed. terminology.


It doesn't deserve to be called a 5th edition Codex since it manages to be crap in basically every way that matters in this edition.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Deserving is one thing, but it was certainly written as a codex for 5th ed.

I agree that the power level is well below what it should be. I got the spearhead box when they were released and really like the Daemons, but they are severely limited in what they can do.


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## willydstyle (Sep 30, 2011)

For the math nerds: it's not so much power creep, but a power unit step function: u(t-5), where T is the edition of the game that the codex was released in


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## aranelthemithra (Nov 1, 2011)

AND .... back to the topic of the thread. 

More experience from playing DE vs Necron. (seriously, when you have two armies available, you can't avoid the match up 

I realize I am not a venom spam DE player. I love close combat builds for my DE with enough anti tank to rattle them enough that I can avoid dealing with them for most of the battle and then I let my wyches with their haywire grenades go amuse themselves... anyway... enough about that. 

Necron... not liking close combat (lychguard are an exception to this) - sure they get up again, but with 9 attacks from lileth with her ignoring armor saves and so on and so forth, the bloodbrides or wyches can get their pain token and just be that much more dangerous when reanimations occur - indeed necron players may NOT want their units getting back up with a bloodthirsty gang of girls waiting to slice them up again. 

*EDIT: Rules query? If a unit is wiped out by my girls, and 3 get back up and then get wiped out again... does that count as killing an enemy unit and as such would I get another pain token? *

If you are a DE and you are facing a lot of Necron, change your strategy. You SHOULD as a general of your army be very willing to do that. Redeploy your assets, find and exploit the weakness of your opponent and defend yourself against your weaknesses. DE having their paper aeroplanes shot down really isn't a new concern. 

I will say this, and you may or may not hate it, but when making the codex, GW should have been focusing on stunting the success of highly popular strategies with the most popular armies. Honestly, if Ward and friends said "way too much success out there with venom spam DE lists" and specifically used Necron to shut that down... good for him. That's EXACTLY what GW should be doing. It will piss off those that have been exploiting venom spam to success and now they have to re-evaluate how to make DE competitive without using the same lists they have for however long, but that's what keeps a meta game healthy. 

You may call it power creep, but that's not how game design works. Sure, GW may have ratcheted up the power level of armies between 4th and 5th edition - business is business. Why buy 5th when 4th is technically better. Most of us aren't showing up at competitive tournaments anyway. There are D&D players out there still using v3.5 because 4th is just worse - Wizards makes no money from those players. 

What GW did with the Necrons was make a very competitive, very fun to play, very thematic and flavourful army. They surely do dislike DE vehicles, and so they should. I am sure they also have specific answers to threats from Blood Angels or Space Wolves or whatever, but I don't play those so I can't specifically speak to what the necron bring to the table. Stand back and shoot armies certainly aren't fans of Necron, but is stand back and shoot really any fun? Necron players may respond by dropping Flayed Ones in the list with lychguards to serve as the brute force to try and punish armies for getting in close. Then they become a little more susceptible to ranged threats and so the tweaking and balancing of the tactics becomes the key deciding factor as to who wins the battle - okay, the dice remain the key deciding factor, but you get the point. 

In short, which this post is not (sorry), if EVERY tournament across the globe has their top competitors loading up on the same list, from the same armies week-in and week-out, it is not only beneficial to GW ($$$$) but also the players and the scene in general to attack those specific tactics with the new codex. It's not just a good business move, it's an essential game-health move. You have to shake up the status quo. Necrons are NOT overpowered. They just aren't. They are very good at attacking venom spam and so they should be. 

Change is good. Embrace the change. 

You're pretending to be military strategic geniuses in charge of dozens of troops and vehicles - at least take some pleasure it trying to out think a problematic situation!


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## Warsmith Drewgie (Oct 26, 2011)

+rep for aranelthemithra, well put. I get so sick of people who lack the tactical skills to adapt to change, and so they just whine, bitch, and complain incessantly. Without even taking the time to think about the fact that if GW didn't make the changes then people who aren't running the current favorable army or tactic are either going to switch armies or quit playing. One hurts the gaming community (everyone playing the same thing), and the other hurts the gaming community and GW sales (people quit gaming, hurts sales, GW goes under, which really hurts our gaming community). Change is good and necessary for our game to involve and it's manufacturer to succeed (produce or perish).


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## Revarien (Jul 20, 2011)

aranelthemithra said:


> *EDIT: Rules query? If a unit is wiped out by my girls, and 3 get back up and then get wiped out again... does that count as killing an enemy unit and as such would I get another pain token? *



pg 29 of necron codex - reanimation protocol rolls can't be done if the unit has been destroyed... or if it's falling back. (so you can't keep getting tokens from a regular necron unit)

As for a lord or overlord, however, it can keep getting back up with everliving... so I supposed you 'could' farm pain tokens from it, if it keeps getting up.


I hope this helps


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

Won my first game against them with my Craftworld Eldar using a fairly straight forward mech/council list. The council was locked in CC most of the time doing the brunt of the damage. The Scorpions failed to do anything thanks to the C'tan Dangerous Terrain shenanigans (cool though). Winners of the day were the masses of S6 shots (that Eldar do well) that tore down Warriors and Scarabs alike. Monolith Suckage eventually saw the untimely demise of both Eldrad and the Jetseer, so I'll be sure to watch out for that next time.

If anything, I am more excited to try out my DE lists against them. I lean more toward Raider spam with mine, aiming for killing vehicles and getting into assault. If I can do that then I'm set.


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## aranelthemithra (Nov 1, 2011)

Revarien said:


> pg 29 of necron codex - reanimation protocol rolls can't be done if the unit has been destroyed... or if it's falling back. (so you can't keep getting tokens from a regular necron unit)
> 
> As for a lord or overlord, however, it can keep getting back up with everliving... so I supposed you 'could' farm pain tokens from it, if it keeps getting up.
> 
> ...


It does indeed. 

Just trying to think through how many attacks Lileth + 9 bloodbrides + 2 hydra gauntlets can produce vs a WS4 unit. I came up with... a lot.


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## aranelthemithra (Nov 1, 2011)

Styro-J said:


> Won my first game against them with my Craftworld Eldar using a fairly straight forward mech/council list. The council was locked in CC most of the time doing the brunt of the damage. The Scorpions failed to do anything thanks to the C'tan Dangerous Terrain shenanigans (cool though). Winners of the day were the masses of S6 shots (that Eldar do well) that tore down Warriors and Scarabs alike. Monolith Suckage eventually saw the untimely demise of both Eldrad and the Jetseer, so I'll be sure to watch out for that next time.
> 
> If anything, I am more excited to try out my DE lists against them. I lean more toward Raider spam with mine, aiming for killing vehicles and getting into assault. If I can do that then I'm set.


Did you find that the Necron just don't do well in CC? My list is Raiders for my wyches and lileth with her brides, venoms for trueborn and warriors with the goal of getting the wyches and lileth in to assault range ASAP and just going to town. It's a fragile (you sure do hear that a lot with DE) strategy but it's so much fun.


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## Revarien (Jul 20, 2011)

aranelthemithra said:


> It does indeed.
> 
> Just trying to think through how many attacks Lileth + 9 bloodbrides + 2 hydra gauntlets can produce vs a WS4 unit. I came up with... a lot.



Oh, as a Necron player... I must give you a heads up (as I've found them to be soo soo nasty), that be very weary of getting Lilith next to a Necron Lord/Overlord, in base to base... Mind swarm scarabs 'randomly choose' someone in base contact with the owner of the MSS... Lilith could end up killing your whole squad.


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

aranelthemithra said:


> Did you find that the Necron just don't do well in CC? My list is Raiders for my wyches and lileth with her brides, venoms for trueborn and warriors with the goal of getting the wyches and lileth in to assault range ASAP and just going to town. It's a fragile (you sure do hear that a lot with DE) strategy but it's so much fun.


Just watch out as they may be TOO good. Necrons still fold in hand to hand most of the time. The Initiative of suck really puts a damper on what they can do in return. They also have relatively few attacks to throw back at you. Lower Immortal Toughness and lower Warrior saves will help you win combat much easier. The problems arise when you win combat, run them through (almost guaranteed with Bloodbrides), and are caught in the open to get shot at. Haywire antics sounds extremely fun as well.

Their elite assault units will hurt, but once again with your better initiative and mass of attacks you should pull through fine. Flayed Ones will probably be scarier to you due to their number of attacks than Lychguard. Especially since power weapons don't mean much to Wyches and Bloodbrides. Do watch out for S7 against Lileth though.



Revarien said:


> Oh, as a Necron player... I must give you a heads up (as I've found them to be soo soo nasty), that be very weary of getting Lilith next to a Necron Lord/Overlord, in base to base... Mind swarm scarabs 'randomly choose' someone in base contact with the owner of the MSS... Lilith could end up killing your whole squad.


This is very true, too. It caused a Warlock to attack his squadmates. I think it only makes them do like D3 attacks though (he rolled a 3 for me anyway) using whatever special rules they have or something like that. Maybe that would increase the number of attacks for Lileth, but I'd be inclined so say its just rules carried over for the D3 attacks made.


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## aranelthemithra (Nov 1, 2011)

Revarien said:


> Oh, as a Necron player... I must give you a heads up (as I've found them to be soo soo nasty), that be very weary of getting Lilith next to a Necron Lord/Overlord, in base to base... Mind swarm scarabs 'randomly choose' someone in base contact with the owner of the MSS... Lilith could end up killing your whole squad.


If someone did that to me, I would laugh. Does she get a pain token for that?


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## aranelthemithra (Nov 1, 2011)

Styro-J said:


> Just watch out as they may be TOO good. Necrons still fold in hand to hand most of the time. The Initiative of suck really puts a damper on what they can do in return. They also have relatively few attacks to throw back at you. Lower Immortal Toughness and lower Warrior saves will help you win combat much easier. The problems arise when you win combat, run them through (almost guaranteed with Bloodbrides), and are caught in the open to get shot at. Haywire antics sounds extremely fun as well.
> 
> Their elite assault units will hurt, but once again with your better initiative and mass of attacks you should pull through fine. Flayed Ones will probably be scarier to you due to their number of attacks than Lychguard. Especially since power weapons don't mean much to Wyches and Bloodbrides. Do watch out for S7 against Lileth though.


This makes me think that raiders as cover may be the best option 95% of the time against necron. Drop off lileth and her friends, plop the raider between her and the closest ranged unit and try and provide her some cover so she can run to cover after wiping out the necron unit.

Hopefully my scourges, the dark lance on the raider and trueborn with their splinter cannons and blasters can lay waste to any direct threats. I am quite protective of my women, I would hate to see them die - though having FNP active would help a little. The wyches can also go drop in on any nearby units and try and knock them out to protect lileth more.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I think I'll be using Wraiths to counter DE assaults. The Wraiths always attack first, and their rending attacks will make short work of any DE, being S6 as well for ID goodness.

I think there is just enough cheese still to be discovered in the Necron codex to give a perfect storm of a headache to any CC oriented army.


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## aranelthemithra (Nov 1, 2011)

darklove said:


> I think I'll be using Wraiths to counter DE assaults. The Wraiths always attack first, and their rending attacks will make short work of any DE, being S6 as well for ID goodness.
> 
> I think there is just enough cheese still to be discovered in the Necron codex to give a perfect storm of a headache to any CC oriented army.


That's the way a codex should be. You should have answers. But spending points on wraiths or any other CC oriented answers makes you susceptible to the strengths of other armies. 

Additionally, unless you are going to be putting a lot of CC answers in, you tactically must account for surgical strikes from DE - lets be fair, Necron (and most armies for that matter) aren't the most mobile and DE certainly have that in their back pocket. 

I think the necron codex is going to be good for the game on a few levels. I want to see Necron account for DE switching more aggressively to an assault build, it means another set of armies can hammer them with devastating ranged attacks. As Necron have to adjust for the uptick in ranged focus armies (even DE might start switching back to Venom spam a little more to get those anti-infantry ranged attacks going - in fact, necron don't WANT DE to switch to ranged, one of the major strengths of necron is the ability to use the AMAZING general Imotekh to mess with ranged, which is something DE handle better than most. Pushing DE in to full on ranged assault would be detrimental to a core necron strategy... but again, necron have answers to that, if the care to invest in them), the necron have to step away from defending against the weakness to CC and spending those points on things to handle the current ranged trend... as they switch their tactics and list compositions, the DE and other CC focused armies switch back and so the game goes. 

THIS is what makes 40K fun. Staring down 24 lances from a DE army isn't nearly as fun as trying to figure out how to balance your army so you can handle the annoyance of 20 wyches ripping through your units or some massive ranged assault, or just the mass numbers of da boyz.

I have NO idea what Necron do about Tyranids - that's a match up I can't visualize in terms of match up. But I can tell you this... Tyranid players had better be trying to get all their friends to pick up necron as an option in their army selection because Necron might just reduce the number of vehicles on the board in the typical list and we all know that Tyranids like that.


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

Slightly out of topic, but these questions have been wandering around my head for the last couple of days....

First, am I right in thinking that this is Wards first non-Imperial codex?
And second, does anyone have any idea how Daemons would fare against Necron? With this second question, I'm more pertaining to Daemons abilities in CC and their random deployment to help get charges against unsuspecting canned food....


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Grokfog said:


> First, am I right in thinking that this is Wards first non-Imperial codex?
> And second, does anyone have any idea how Daemons would fare against Necron? With this second question, I'm more pertaining to Daemons abilities in CC and their random deployment to help get charges against unsuspecting canned food....


1. Yes.

2. Daemons should die pretty horribly to a competent Necron player with a decent list. The only thing Daemons have going for them against Necrons is that at least the Necrons can't really do effective mech armies which is the main weakness of any Daemon list. That being said, Necrons excel at short ranged shooting and can be very maneuverable due to their various teleporting tricks (Monolith, Veil of Darkness and so on). Tesla weaponry can also really tear through the smaller Daemons due to how low their Toughness is (usually) and how poor their saves are. As long as the Necron player can minimize the number of assaults that happen then he should win easily enough.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

The necrons seemed much more geared as an anti marine army (at least the force I saw today) rather than DE, I watched a BA vs crons and the angels were tabled quickly although they struggled in combat, When I fought them after I fared better but mainly due to some lucky shooting and a lack of vehicles in my force which reduced the effectiveness of a few of his units.
I think by removing the phase out and high AP and power weapons no longer stopping we'll be back was possibly a step to far especially when combined with all the shiny new stuff and the stupid amounts of weapon destroyed the majority of the vehicles can take is irritating, the transport has 5 either side so potentialy can ignore 10 hits (however unlikely this may seem although today I saw 4 hits = 4 wp destroyed)
The unkillable lords assistant seemed a bit cheap at about 80ish pts fully equipt with high armour save, ward and res orb and not taking up a force org slot.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

The Transport (Ghost Ark) only has 2 weapons: 2x Flayer Arrays. Each weapon destroyed result knocks out an array, so the 3rd weapon destroyed result = immobilised.


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