# Thoughts on Swarmlord



## wargamereric (Jan 20, 2010)

So I finally got to take a peak at the new codex in person the otherday..and I must say this guy stuck out quite a bit, he just seem nasty.

Having such high str/toughness/wounds and a 4up invuln save, combined with his deadly weapons that inflicts instant death regardless of toughness is just carnage. On top of that, any you manage to save you must reroll... -_-

Seems like he would just deck any special characters as well a chomp up most elite units. And if you avoid him with your SC's I don't see many normal units being able to take on this foe easily, aside from maybe a mob of 30 orks  And even then, this guy ain't going to be alone, being able to grant units furious charge every turn....

All in all, I'm scared lol, and find his point cost to be actually low it seems for what this guy can accomplish.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

The Swarmlord is pretty much the best walking tyrant there is, mostly due to invulnerable save and instant death attacks. An old adversary tyrant is better for support IMO, but doesn't do as well in combat, and can shoot decently but would probably rather be in combat or running to keep up with the other bugs. The 18" range for swarmlord's preferred enemy/furious assault is better for armies with lots of MCs or warriors though.

However, the Swarmlord really falls apart when you assault him with fearless normal infantry like an Ork mob or multicharge him and a squad of termagants. Without multiwound or expensive stuff to instant death, his 4 attacks just don't cut it (rerolling 3+ to hit and 2+ to wound in most cases, but still only 4 kills at most). The one time I've encountered a Swarmlord so far this is exactly what I did and I tore him up as he killed off Orks that would have died at the same rate as against a normal tyrant.


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## wargamereric (Jan 20, 2010)

Yeah as much as I thought about it thats the only thing I could see working most times against it is just a big mob of boys. 

Where I find it harder to tackle is with full Mechanized marine lists, where any unit you throw at it is gonna get a hurtin, real bad.


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

He's going to take lots of dakka on his way into assault in almost any game I'd bet seeing how he is such a beast in CC - but his 4+ invul doesn't apply against shooting attacks...


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

I think he's way to expensive for what he does. His toughness isn't near high enough (compared to T8 wraith lord who is half the cost btw) also you guy forgot to mention he only gets his 4+ invul while in close combat. Making him a gaint walking target for ap3 weapons which are a dime a dozens in every army (cept orks and nids) most hq units in space marines, chaos sm, deamons, Tau, eladr, dark eldar, have 3+ invuls at all times and they can be in a large unit of trash for body guards. He's way too expensive and since he is a MC he will almost never get a cover save. Those are my thoughts.


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## wargamereric (Jan 20, 2010)

Ahhh I must of been trying to take in too much info all at once and just seen the 4+ invuln didn't catch was only in melee. Makes a HUGE difference o_o

Guess if you let this guy get into combat at all, he should be down to past half wounds unless you've done something wrong, or completely lack dakka


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

Well most ap3 weapons are S8 so they wound on a 2+. 6 shots which are easy to get off in 1 round mostly hit on 3+ and wound on 2+. Even with a guard he's pretty usless. Cause everyone guns for him cause he's 1/3 of your army. This isn't fair considering no one could kill a eldar farseer in 1 round.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Im sceptical if were talking a TAC-PoV.

He costs 280 fucking points.
He has move 6.
He can hardly shoot.
He is a Close Combat Monster.

Find something wrong in the combination of things written above....
Add the detail that he more or less must have 2 Tyrant Guards to survive across the field and youre talking 400 points in 3 models that only has a 3+ save. Hardly _that_ good, right?


A normal Tyrant is still lethal in CC to most things, and can be kitted to fill blanks in the armylist much more point efficient. He will also most likely be able to shoot something, that actually might be useful, on his way across the table:wink:


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## VanitusMalus (Jun 27, 2009)

NewGuy55 no one has a 3+ invul in any of the armies you stated except for Eldrad of the Eldar, The Shadowfield of the DE is 2+ invul but if they ever roll a one it stops working. The only other thing I can think of with a 3+ invul are the Wraiths of the Necrons.


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

VanitusMalus said:


> NewGuy55 no one has a 3+ invul in any of the armies you stated except for Eldrad of the Eldar, The Shadowfield of the DE is 2+ invul but if they ever roll a one it stops working. The only other thing I can think of with a 3+ invul are the Wraiths of the Necrons.



Vanitus doesnt The Space marine army have stormshields (3+ invul) and they can be given as a upgrade to just about any HQ that wears Terminator armor. I even recall them having a Unit called a Librarian that has a 2+ invul save

In my area its 65% eldar players so I play eldar....allot


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

MaidenManiac said:


> Im sceptical if were talking a TAC-PoV.
> 
> He costs 280 fucking points.
> He has move 6.
> ...


Thats almost as much as the Necron god units cost. ANd they will work you in close combat as well as range.....


400+pts for something that has Zero survivability on there way to CC is just plain lame. A Higher toughness so that S4 weapons cant hurt him would have been nice.


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## EuroChild (Feb 4, 2010)

The Swarm Lord works when you throw in a few distractions to stop people from shooting at it. Like maybe a squad of outflanking genestealers.

These bloody genestealers are more than just distractions though, with their rending and brood lords and supported with a Mawloc. If you're lucky enough to have both of these units show up on the same turn using the Mawloc's Terror from the deep thingy to take out any heavy weapon squads that could target the swarm lord on his way into combat. (the S6 attack will insta-kill those annoying 2W IG heavy bases)

So - after taking out the heavies in that way, menacing your enemies flank with a bunch of nasty rending mofos and shoving a big ugly looking super-mouth up their backside (the Mawloc looks scarier than he actually is, but hey, in showbiz looks is what it's all about and all you want him to do is dance a bit and stop the enemy from shooting your Swarm Lord) your enemy won't know what to shoot at.

So without the shooting being on your Swarm Lord he can make combat, and even with just four attacks he is NASTY once he makes it, forceing re-rolls on invul-saves and insta-killing like some kind of executioner god thingy.

What you've just gotta ask yourself iis if he's worth all that effort. I'm not too sure to be honest with you because we generally do games with four or more players and our 'nid guy always send the stealers against orks and the Mawloc against me (TFTD against an Avatar and WL is a stupid move but I'm not complaining), so both of those units end up isolated and very dead while the Swarm Lord still gets shot to pieces by the fourth army (SW or IG).
I've seen the Swarm Lord in combat once when he made it with his Hive Guard and everything intact and he was bloody killer, but if you can't coordinate the rest of the army then he's just an overpriced ammunition magnet.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

I fought against him the other day and it took two turns of a 5 man Dark Reaper squad to kill him off.

The first turn I dropped his hive guard and he went down the second

Not that tough IMO, of course I would never let him get into CC with me, easy enough while he strolls across the battlefeild.

No, what I found most annoying was the 3 lictors that popped up next to my harlies and showed them the door.


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

The swarmlord is a hard counter to a few power builds that rely on nasty cc (nob bikers, jetseers etc). I'm not convinced he's worth the vast price tag against other armies, but if you play in a competative environment it may be worth the hit to deal with some of the nastiest lists.

Those who think he is easy to kill with guards are bonkers- place them behind some gaunts for a cover save and voila- never going to die at range.

5 man dark reaper squad (with fast shot, EML exarch)

(4 x 2 x 2/3 x 1/3 = 16/9) + (1 x 2 x 5/6 x 5/6 = 50/36) ~ 3.5 wounds on t6 3+ saves per turn.

So with cover from a gaunt squad it should take you ~ 6 turns to kill off the Swarmlord and two guards...assumming of course that the other guy lets you.


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## elkhantar (Nov 14, 2008)

and add in feel no pain from a friendly tervigon nearby and you won't kill them in the whole game. I don't really like him. He's way too expensive and slow for my tastes, but he's really not that fragile.


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

OddJob said:


> The swarmlord is a hard counter to a few power builds that rely on nasty cc (nob bikers, jetseers etc). I'm not convinced he's worth the vast price tag against other armies, but if you play in a competative environment it may be worth the hit to deal with some of the nastiest lists.
> 
> Those who think he is easy to kill with guards are bonkers- place them behind some gaunts for a cover save and voila- never going to die at range.
> 
> ...




He's a MC he doesn't get covet saves fro
small frieny units


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

NewGuy55 said:


> He's a MC he doesn't get covet saves fro
> small frieny units


I think if he's with at least two Tyrant Guard to make up the majority numbers wise, then the TG's are small enough to grant a cover save to their unit if they're behind some gaunts.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Concrete Hero said:


> I think if he's with at least two Tyrant Guard to make up the majority numbers wise, then the TG's are small enough to grant a cover save to their unit if they're behind some gaunts.


You only need half the unit, so even one Tyrant Guard is enough


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

The Swarmlord on his own isn't worth the points he costs. Take into account all the extra stuff he does for reserves and outflankers especially, almost ensuring you get them in where you want them, his larger synapse range, PE or FC on other squads, etc etc etc, and assuming you can properly coordinate this stuff while you walk him up the field to lay the smackdown in CC, he is a beast. He is not meant to be thrown into any build. I think he is specifically for outflank/reserve medium/heavy builds. Either he helps the rest of your army get on the board and perform better and survive longer while he gets shot up, or he is ignored while your opponent tries to deal with all the outflankers/deepstrikers, and starts eatting anything in his path on turn three and beyond. But he is only a win win with the right list, and even then he takes strategy and coordination.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> You only need half the unit, so even one Tyrant Guard is enough


Actually no the Rules for MC (and vehicles coincidentally) take priority. And in order to claim a save for a MC (even one in a squad) it still needs to be 50% covered. Due to the rulebook telling us the vehicle rules always take precedence the SL himself will need to be at least 50% obscured in order for him to claim a save (this cannot be from his own unit). The Guard however follow a different set of rules.

Also for Mr. Oddjob, when I do take my reapers I like to have them fully supported, which will mean Doom at the very least and Guide if its feasible. Both of which were present during the game. The first turn catalyst was negated by my runes, second turn he was out of range. I didn't bring it up but the guard don't actually protect the Sl at all, I can always choose to shoot him directly and he will eat all the wounds. Until they fix the guard rules its open hunting season on any Hive Tyrant.

On the matter of Jetseers incidentally, after the Swarm Lord gets gets his 4 attacks in, regardless of weather or not 4 warlocks die, he should be brought down easily enough. Hitting on 4's with 2+ to wound, I haven't done the math or tried it out but it doesn't seem to be in the SL's favor. That's not including whatever shooting might or might not do before the charge.

Of course we can continue to go back and forth with hypotheticals, but the sad truth is it can go either way during the game.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Ragewind said:


> Actually no the Rules for MC (and vehicles coincidentally) take priority. And in order to claim a save for a MC (even one in a squad) it still needs to be 50% covered. Due to the rulebook telling us the vehicle rules always take precedence the SL himself will need to be at least 50% obscured in order for him to claim a save (this cannot be from his own unit). The Guard however follow a different set of rules.


Half the unit must be in cover to get cover.

Tyrant Guard is partial obscured, and being a normal model, would get a cover save.

Swarmlord is a Montrous Creature and needs 50% to get a cover, which in this case he doesn't.

At least half the unit has cover, hence the whole unit will get it.


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

BING! correct - as crazy as it sounds once a mc can form any kind of unit then its down to the smallest member of the squad. it would have better to have 50% on the whole squad tho - another little game mechanic that is going to be used and abused. nevermind tho - otherwise he is gonna die horribly pretty damn quickly! and compared to the gaurd and space wolf codex - the nid codex is tame.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

You wound be correct except the Cover rules for MC's take precedence. This isn't just me saying this, the rule even spell out what will happen with a unit.


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

Ragewind said:


> You wound be correct except the Cover rules for MC's take precedence. This isn't just me saying this, the rule even spell out what will happen with a unit.


Please provide (specific, not obscure) quotes and references for the claims you have made in this thread as I can't find anything to back them up.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

I think he is a BEAST!! especially when you can put him in Reserves with a trygon and pop them both both out on the same turn. THen you place the trygon in the enemies vulnerable spot and put the Swarmlord exactly behind him!! that way the swarmlord gets a cover save. and after that use the Trygons shooting attack ( or tryon prime which has more shots) the swarmlords psyker power Paroxsym on the enemy unit close by capable of hurting the Trygon or SL. hehe. then afterwards is mass slaughter! two MC's killing everyone! 

SIde note: also to make sure such strategy works get 3 lictors, and a Mawloc! lol Enjoy!

Warning: tactic maybe too much cheese for opponent to handle. especially when in unison with the other forces you have ramming down your opponents main defense line, which might induce slight disorder and confusion and frustration and anger in later stages. haha.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

I misread the Subterranean rules for Tyrgons. sorry. i though units can arrive on the Same turn as the trygon but apparantly not. You will have to wait a turn for the SL. >.> by then the trygon should be in CC. oh well.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

Zaden said:


> Please provide (specific, not obscure) quotes and references for the claims you have made in this thread as I can't find anything to back them up.


I'm typing from my phone and don't have acess to my books for a few hours, however might I be so bold as to suggest you go read the cover rules for vehicles an vehicle squadrons. You may also read te MC rules but thy will direct you to back to the vehicle rules. 

As to picking out the MC in a squad you should go read the rules for independent characters second page under shooting at IC's. This rule alone would invalidate the cover rules as he is treated as a seperate unit when shooting at him.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Ragewind said:


> As to picking out the MC in a squad you should go read the rules for independent characters second page under shooting at IC's. This rule alone would invalidate the cover rules as he is treated as a seperate unit when shooting at him.


RAW you are correct, but most people are willing to accept that this is just a stuff up and that Tyrant Guard should actually be able to protect the tyrant.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> RAW you are correct, but most people are willing to accept that this is just a stuff up and that Tyrant Guard should actually be able to protect the tyrant.


Yes and I am one of those people which is why I had to kill of the tyrant guard before shooting the SL. It always helps to know the proper rules however and I at least try. Besides debate is fun and keeps you sharp so thanks for the discussion.


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## Iron_Chaos_Brute (Feb 3, 2010)

The Swarmlord has a place in Nid armies because he's really the only hard counter to dedicated assault troops. Unlike literally every other MC in the book, he can stand up to things like Hammernators, TWolf Cav, and Bloodcrushers that even Supergants will have trouble pulling down.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Would it be tactically sound to put swarmlord in reserve and then have him come in behind a Deathleaper? that way he can avoid being shot and then he can just go and run into CC if he's close enough, and the deathleaper can provide a cover save if swarmlord gets targeted or if they target leaper they have to test for sight which will hamper enemy effectiveness.


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

the swarmlord cant enter with the deathleaper 
The only way the swarmlord could enter play from reserve is if it got lucky enough to come in behind a trygon the turn after the trygon comes in.

As for the swarmlord in general, by himself, he's obviously not worth the points. However his abilities (especially in a stealer heavy list) make him more then reasonable. Plus 2-3 guard will keep him nice and safe until he is in cc. 
For all those that say that the AP 3 weapons will take him out, then yay, now you have to deal with the other mc's, thropes, and other mean stuff nids can take. (I would in fact prefer him absorbing shots so my thropes can get up the board safely)


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

oblivion8 said:


> the swarmlord cant enter with the deathleaper
> The only way the swarmlord could enter play from reserve is if it got lucky enough to come in behind a trygon the turn after the trygon comes in.


The swarmlord is an MC, so he can't use a trygon hole anyway. If he's not on the board at the start of the game, then he's walking on from your board edge.



oblivion8 said:


> As for the swarmlord in general, by himself, he's obviously not worth the points. However his abilities (especially in a stealer heavy list) make him more then reasonable. Plus 2-3 guard will keep him nice and safe until he is in cc.


Stealer heavy would definitely make him more valuable, all your stealers turning up on a 3+ for turn 2, rerolling their outflank would be pretty decent. Have him setup with a couple of guards, a couple of big units of hormagaunts/termagauts, and then outflank with 3-4 units of steelers, and deepstrike with a few zoans. While that'd be useful, if you put him with a swarm army like that the downside would be that he'd draw alot more fire than he would in a nidzilla list, seeing as there wouldn't be as many other big things to draw fire away from your swarmlord - every big AT gun would be aimed squarely at him from turn 1.

Still, he's a lot of points, and isn't that hard to take out with shooting, so he can be a bit of a risk, until you get him into combat. He's devastating once there, but getting him there is what takes the time.


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

> The swarmlord is an MC, so he can't use a trygon hole anyway. If he's not on the board at the start of the game, then he's walking on from your board edge.


assuming that the hive tyrant and guard get FAQ'd in favor of the majority ruling, would the swarmlord with 1 or more guard not be entitled to using the hole, as 50% is not MC?
just a thought.



> While that'd be useful, if you put him with a swarm army like that the downside would be that he'd draw alot more fire than he would in a nidzilla list, seeing as there wouldn't be as many other big things to draw fire away from your swarmlord - every big AT gun would be aimed squarely at him from turn 1.


Although its true he would see less fire in a nidzilla list, he would still draw fire from your zoanthropes, other MC's and T4 units in a swarmlist. Plus if it is as said before, he gets 4+cover and possibly feel no pain, making him one hell of a wound sponge nontheless.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

oblivion8 said:


> assuming that the hive tyrant and guard get FAQ'd in favor of the majority ruling, would the swarmlord with 1 or more guard not be entitled to using the hole, as 50% is not MC?
> just a thought.


No, it's not a majority ruling situation. If the unit conatains guys who aren't infantry, then it isn't an infantry unit, it's a mixed unit. For the same reason, characters with jetpacks/bikes/riding beasts ect. don't become infantry when they join a unit, and can't use transports.

Majority rules really only apply to unit toughness and cover (and probably there's something else I've forgotten about, but anyway), but definitely not to unit type.



oblivion8 said:


> Although its true he would see less fire in a nidzilla list, he would still draw fire from your zoanthropes, other MC's and T4 units in a swarmlist. Plus if it is as said before, he gets 4+cover and possibly feel no pain, making him one hell of a wound sponge nontheless.


True, but zoans and warriors can be seen in 'zilla lists too. This guy is just generally going to get shot at alot unless there's something else big and nasty that's closer. With guard, that's not so bad, but he's 400 points or so with guard, and moving only 6" a turn plus run (if he's not using a power). It's a lot of points, and the enemy is going to have quite a few turns to shoot at him. I think he could definitely be useful, you'd just have to be careful with him.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

So MC's cant use the Deathleapers or Lictors pheromone trail rule?!!
thats a bloody shame. 
I was hoping on making a deep striking Nid force and somehow getting the SL closer faster would be a big advantage. Maybe with 2 trygons and a mawloc deep striking, and hormogaunts using there holes to deploy or using myscetic spores. Outflanking stealers, deep striking Zoans, deep striking gargoyles, deep striking raveners.. haha the list goes on.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

XxDreMisterxX said:


> So MC's cant use the Deathleapers or Lictors pheromone trail rule?!!
> thats a bloody shame.
> I was hoping on making a deep striking Nid force and somehow getting the SL closer faster would be a big advantage. Maybe with 2 trygons and a mawloc deep striking, and hormogaunts using there holes to deploy or using myscetic spores. Outflanking stealers, deep striking Zoans, deep striking gargoyles, deep striking raveners.. haha the list goes on.


Pheromone trail will give the swarmlord +1 to his reserve roll, but he's still walking in from your own board edge - there's no other way to get him onto the board. That means it's usually not a good idea at all to put him in reserves, as it just means a whole extra turn or two of walking up the board. Pheromone trail doesn't give the deepstrike ability to anyone, it only allows unit who can already deepstrike to do it without scattering. The swarmlord doesn't have the option to get a mycetic spore to deepstrike in, so he has no possible way of deepstriking. So a deepstriking army needs something else besides the swarmlord.

Hope that helps clear things up


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> RAW you are correct, but most people are willing to accept that this is just a stuff up and that Tyrant Guard should actually be able to protect the tyrant.


RAW he is not correct. Being able to join a unit as an IC does not in fact make you an IC (or allow the Tyrant to leave the squad as an IC).


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

OddJob said:


> RAW he is not correct. Being able to join a unit as an IC does not in fact make you an IC (or allow the Tyrant to leave the squad as an IC).


lets not start this debate again  lets keep it to the other thread on tyrant guard in the rules section. Tyrant Guard rules need clarification, one way or the other.


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

Ragewind said:


> Also for Mr. Oddjob, when I do take my reapers I like to have them fully supported, which will mean Doom at the very least and Guide if its feasible. Both of which were present during the game. The first turn catalyst was negated by my runes, second turn he was out of range. I didn't bring it up but the guard don't actually protect the Sl at all, I can always choose to shoot him directly and he will eat all the wounds. Until they fix the guard rules its open hunting season on any Hive Tyrant.
> 
> On the matter of Jetseers incidentally, after the Swarm Lord gets gets his 4 attacks in, regardless of weather or not 4 warlocks die, he should be brought down easily enough. Hitting on 4's with 2+ to wound, I haven't done the math or tried it out but it doesn't seem to be in the SL's favor. That's not including whatever shooting might or might not do before the charge.
> 
> Of course we can continue to go back and forth with hypotheticals, but the sad truth is it can go either way during the game.


Mr Oddjob...tee hee, I like it!

The warlocks won't be eating the SLs strength six attacks if the swarmlord gets his way- they'll be going on the farseer. Without him the unit is toast irrespective on how the fight goes. If the nids get off either catalyst or paroxysm the seers are fairly buggered. Even if the farseer can't be contacted he is now under the shadow in the warp (some of his own medicine-ha). Run the numbers for yourself- the jetlocks have a very hard time in that combat, particularly with catalyst/paroxysm. 

Five reapers with doom/guide

10 x 8/9 x 5/9 x 1/2 = 400/162 ~ 2.5 wounds or 4 turns of shooting to kill off the SL and guards. But the other guy gets to play too...so this won't work for more than a turn. If you are misinterpereting the cover/shieldwall rules then bully to you. The rest of us will be taking our perfectly legal cover saves :victory:


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

OddJob said:


> Mr Oddjob...tee hee, I like it!
> Without him the unit is toast irrespective on how the fight goes. If the nids get off either catalyst or paroxysm the seers are fairly buggered. Even if the farseer can't be contacted he is now under the shadow in the warp (some of his own medicine-ha). Run the numbers for yourself- the jetlocks have a very hard time in that combat, particularly with catalyst/paroxysm.


Actually, eldar farseers don't really care about Shadows of the Warp at all, as long as they have runes of witnessing, while your chances of getting of paroxysm or catalyst go down to about 50% because of runes of warding, with a 25% chance of taking a wound yourself. Yep, damn beardy eldar seers have everything covered in that regard:laugh: Of course, once you're in combat they die, but the point of farseers is to keep them OUT of combat as much as possible  and they're a little faster than the Swarmlord.


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

Agreed- however, if the seers fail fortune they are toast. If the nids fail catalyst/paroxysm they still winzorz (just not as dramatically). Runes of witnessing are also not an automatic choice due to usually being of marginal benefit and making a perils check more likely. Also also, how do runes and shadow interact? It's not fair to simply have them cancel out (as this removes the increased likelyhood of perils caused by shadow). Roll 4D6 and ignore bottom and top result for the test but count them for perils?

The seers may be faster, but they still have to congregate at the same points on the board. Large units of smaller bugs are also fairly effective at tying the unit up for a couple of player turns. If the seers want to keep away it's a win for the Tyranids as thats a mega bunsey unit not doing what it does best.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Runes and Shadow in the Warp simply cancel out. Its in the Eldar FAQ, yes they were referencing an old version of Shadow in the Warp but same rule, same name so the Eldar FAQ still applies. 

Aramoro


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

Well the point I am trying to make is that every army has bad units that no one uses, due to them costing to much, or just not being useful. It just sucks that the swarmlord is one of those units. And having to add 200+pts in guard to make him survive past round one is stupid. That's almost a 500pt Hq!!! The farseers ability are much more useful and he cost much less. Btw all you guys telling people he's easy to kill I'll have to disagree. He has 5 attacks standard hits on 3s wounds on 2s no saves and has 7ws which make it had to swarm units to hit him.


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## Iron_Chaos_Brute (Feb 3, 2010)

NewGuy55 said:


> Well the point I am trying to make is that every army has bad units that no one uses, due to them costing to much, or just not being useful. It just sucks that the swarmlord is one of those units. And having to add 200+pts in guard to make him survive past round one is stupid. That's almost a 500pt Hq!!! The farseers ability are much more useful and he cost much less. Btw all you guys telling people he's easy to kill I'll have to disagree. He has 5 attacks standard hits on 3s wounds on 2s no saves and has 7ws which make it had to swarm units to hit him.


>_< The Swarmlord is not one of those units. 1st off, it's 400. 2nd off, it's the *only* hard counter to Hammernators, Nob Bikers, Bloodcrushers, Twolves, etc. in the Codex.


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

Iron_Chaos_Brute said:


> >_< The Swarmlord is not one of those units. 1st off, it's 400. 2nd off, it's the *only* hard counter to Hammernators, Nob Bikers, Bloodcrushers, Twolves, etc. in the Codex.


It's 460pts with 3 base guards no power weapons or lash whips. And he is too one of those units I played 3 games with him and learned my lesson. you didn't mention eldar rangers There a HUGE threat! 10 possible wounds with no says if they roll 5-6. on top of that he 100% CC he moves way to damn slow he doesn't even have fleet for gods sake! Eldar walkers, Sm terminators. Rail guns! Everything is a threat to him cause the guy who wrote our codex decide that a 280pt hq shouldnt have a invulnerable save and that T6 is high enough. It's true man he's way to many points for a giant support hq!


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Maddermax- thank you for clarifying things for me.  My mind can rest in peace now, though i really would have wanted the rules to be slightly different so that my previous strat would work, but dont we all? haha. I might just have to settle for a Heavily based CC Hive Tyrant w/ wings and have at least 2 death leapers for there support and reserve bonus and trail. I can still deepstrike winged units right?


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

NewGuy55 said:


> It's 460pts with 3 base guards no power weapons or lash whips. And he is too one of those units I played 3 games with him and learned my lesson. you didn't mention eldar rangers There a HUGE threat! 10 possible wounds with no says if they roll 5-6. on top of that he 100% CC he moves way to damn slow he doesn't even have fleet for gods sake! Eldar walkers, Sm terminators. Rail guns! Everything is a threat to him cause the guy who wrote our codex decide that a 280pt hq shouldnt have a invulnerable save and that T6 is high enough. It's true man he's way to many points for a giant support hq!


I don't think he needs three Guard, thats wasting points. One should be enough if you use him well.


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> I don't think he needs three Guard, thats wasting points. One should be enough if you use him well.


I have to take at least three. My opponents always have Eldar Rangers this way I might be able to save him in round 1. And By using him well you mean Hiding him be hide a wall right? that was the only way He survived till round 3 on my third game.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

NewGuy55 said:


> I have to take at least three. My opponents always have Eldar Rangers this way I might be able to save him in round 1. And By using him well you mean Hiding him be hide a wall right? that was the only way He survived till round 3 on my third game.


Well, if your playing that you can't pick the Tyrant out (which is the common consensus), then they are treated as a single unit, so with one Tyrant Guard, if you partially obscure it, both will get a cover save.

10 Pathfinders will average 10/3 no armour wounds and 4/3 saveable wounds. Thats an average of 2.1 wounds a turn. 

Swarmlord and Tyrant Guard have 7 wounds together. Thats 4 turns to kill it


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

Path Finders Rend on a 5-6up and always wound on a 4 up and the farseerer allows them to re-rol failed wounds


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

Rend doesnt skip cover saves so basicly its worthless if your getting cover saves for being in a unit.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Hmm, forgot about Guide/Doom in my calculations. Still, 24" is close enough to eat him with other troops, so make him pay if he gets close


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

I just can't find a use for him in my list. Most of your opponents will know what he can do and will simply just avoid him. He's only really good at 1 thing - Killing multi-wound models and 90% of those are faster than he is.

I took mine with 2 tyrant guards /w lash whips which ran me 410 points. Because of his speed, its at least turn 2-3 before he gets there which leaves him little time to earn his points back. Most people will point a couple of heavy weapons his way each turn and start killing his guards. "Isn't that the point of the guards though Crim?" Sure, except that they are 65 points a pop! OUCH.

So my swarmlord finally makes it into combat with a tac squad (at this point I was just happy to be able to charge ANYTHING) - the two tyrant guards are dead from gunfire. OK, lets see what he can do with a whooping.... 4 attacks (5 on the charge).... Sweet, he killed 4 marines (roughly 60 points - almost paid for 1 of those dead guards). They do a wound back with the power fist and break. The swarmlord dies to the rest of the heavy weapons pointed at him now that hes in the open.

This has been the case a few times now, however throw in X expendable unit. I've had him stuck in a unit of 30 boyz where he killed a whooping 3-4 a turn, yay 24 points!

Again, most of the things you want him into (nob bikers, seer councils, termies, characters) are either mounted on something faster than you or in a vehicle which is also faster than you).



So, how to make him effective? Well you need to combine his charge with another unit. This is the only time I can see him being useful. However you've now just committed nearly half of your army to wipe out a substantially small unit... Congrats.

I think you're much better served running two hive tyrants or a tyrant and an alpha warrior.


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