# Little Kids who play Chaos



## Minizke1 (Feb 7, 2010)

So I'm a new player, only about 3 games under my belt. My most recent game was against some 12-year-old who played Thousand Sons. The residing "referee" was busy with a blood angels vs. orks match. This kid made up so many fake rules, even he was having trouble keeping track of them. Is it just me, or does every little kid who plays 40k, specifically magic or psyker-based armies, make up rules to help himself win by default?


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Its not just you, but its also not always the case. There are some older people who will do anything in order to win just like some younger people do.

You can also find some younger people who act more adult and as better sports than some older opponents.


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## wombat_tree (Nov 30, 2008)

Yes, every twelve year old is obsessed with winning /sarcasm/. Sure some of them are, but that doesn't mean that every single one of them is.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Sadly you'll always get a few people who resort to innovative methods (cheating) in order to win. Best thing to do is to either call them on it or make up some rules of your own until they stop.


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## Akhara'Keth (Nov 20, 2010)

Minizke1 said:


> So I'm a new player, only about 3 games under my belt. My most recent game was against some 12-year-old who played Thousand Sons. The residing "referee" was busy with a blood angels vs. orks match. This kid made up so many fake rules, even he was having trouble keeping track of them. Is it just me, or does every little kid who plays 40k, specifically magic or psyker-based armies, make up rules to help himself win by default?


Not always, but there are many people cheating. Younger players are more obsessed with winning, it is the same in TCG like Magic.

I would like to know which rules he made up, I always like to hear stuff they make up :grin:


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## Shag (Jul 12, 2009)

wombat_tree said:


> Yes, every twelve year old is obsessed with winning /sarcasm/. Sure some of them are, but that doesn't mean that every single one of them is.


I totally agree with you sir. I don't think age has much to do with it. I don't believe maturity always comes with age and I don't believe that all young persons are unreasonable. I am fortunate to play with some friends in my apartment. We have disagreements:threaten: and we all want to win, but we work through it with civility and if there is legitimate confusion to a rule we use the roll off technique.:gimmefive:


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## Snake40000 (Jan 11, 2010)

Repeating what has already been said; but it is on a person to person basis, not age. If you having that big of an issue with it try this thread for how to deal with cheating. 
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55709


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

dont like youre thread name, but yeah little kids cheat. they do not think of the consequences of cheating. so get together with youre league cordinator, shop owner, or other players and make up a 3 strike policy. if they cheat 3 times they get banned from playing at youre shop for like 2 weeks or a month youre choice. that will really kick them in the balls/ovaries. at first they will be pissed(say they will never come again or yell and protest and say they didnt know it wasnt a legit rule, or my calculator must have messed up and didnt count the 300 extra points im over.) anyways you can weed them out this way. most of them after the 1st time getting banned will make sure they get their shit together, but there are some stuborn ones who will continue and get banned 2 or 3 more times. 
one kid got banned 5 times, and are shop gives him the cold shoulder now. no one will play with him. his dad came down and asked us to play with him and that he will not cheat again, but he cheated the first game back saying that he gave his space wolves squads the anti pysichic power, and taking upgrades on rhinos like extra armor. or he had the nerver to put powerfists on his sqauads without adding the points for them. anyways thats how we deal with kids at my shop or anybody who has cheated. 
also i rarely see kids play chaos space marines. they always play blackreach marines or orcs. most of them are spacemarine players fielding vulkan and drop pod vangaurd squads with combi meltas with a librarian that gives them all 5 up invuls.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

one of the ways my shop has weeded out point cheaters is by making it requirment to field a army builder list. they either by it or hope someone is nice enough to bring their laptop down and let them build a list on it. this get rid of those cheaters who forget to add extra armor on their points because it will make them go over. and my favorite is the kids who upgrade their sergants with wargear they didnt pay for. or my personal favorite is the ever changeing drednoughts. they may be drednoughts on the point cost, but they are venerable or iron clad depending on what is hapening that turn. lol had a kid who said his dreadnought was a venerbale dreadnought but when i looked at his list he had hidden away when he brought it up it said dreadnought..
i think since we have made the army builder law the biggest cheating we have been dealing with is proxy cheats. people will not mark a model they are proxying as something. like one time a kid proxied a devestator squad(which is cool with me i have no problem with that at all) but he was taking 1 lascannon 1 plasmacannon and 2 rocket launchers. none were marked. and he fired his plasmacannon from one model his frist turn and then the next turn when it was more convienient for his plasmacannon to be firing from a posistion he could see more khorne bezerkers thast had emergancy disembarked their rhino and were bundled together. i called him out on it and we debated for like 20minutes until i said fuck it and played the game and kicked his ass anyways.
but yeah i hate cheaters


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## Swarmlord (Feb 19, 2011)

Minizke1 said:


> So I'm a new player, only about 3 games under my belt. My most recent game was against some 12-year-old who played Thousand Sons. The residing "referee" was busy with a blood angels vs. orks match. This kid made up so many fake rules, even he was having trouble keeping track of them. Is it just me, or does every little kid who plays 40k, specifically magic or psyker-based armies, make up rules to help himself win by default?


 
Little bastards indeed!!!

I have found myself in afew battles with around 12-15 (i think). One was just like the snotling you ran into. another was a throne slave that would cheat his butt off! this kid would move an inch more or bump rolled dice. The one runt that i still cant not stand b/c he comes to my local all the time is an elder player enough said on that. 

I have had alot of luck telling the kids that if the bullshite keeps up then im quiting and word will get around the local.


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## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

Out of curiosity, what sort of rules was he making up?


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

Well I used to play at a little gaming club with this space marine player who did quite alot of cheating, mostly making up rules that don't exsist. Since I didn't have the rulebook back then I didn't know he was making it up! (I had my suspitions but no proof) anyway, I had a battle with guy while he had all these wierd and whacky rules in place with my chaos, and I pretty much hacked him do death with my daemons and bezerkers singing praise to the blood god! That was my last battle with him, when i got the rulebook I had a look through and I was pretty miffed when I found out he had actually been making it all up, haven't played him since...
But apart from that I've had very little incidents of cheating.

Oh by the way, if you have any trouble with that thousand sons player here are the rules for a thousand squad:

Slow and purposeful
fearless
Inferno bolts (AP3 bolt weapons)
squad led by a sorcerer with a force weapon and bolt of change pskyic power (R: 24', S: 8, AP 1, melta)
Counts as a troop choice (most people think they come under Elite)

Those are the only rules for thousand sons.


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## Snake40000 (Jan 11, 2010)

I honestly cant blame non chaos players for thinking 1k sons are elites.... they are probally the most poweful troop choice in all of 40k.

Like shit, smeq, fearless, AP3 weapons, Slow and purposeful, and a fucking pskyicer with a retarded anti everything power! I love theese dudes put them in a rhino and you with tear shit up.


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

> I honestly cant blame non chaos players for thinking 1k sons are elites.... they are probally the most poweful troop choice in all of 40k.
> 
> Like shit, smeq, fearless, AP3 weapons, Slow and purposeful, and a fucking pskyicer with a retarded anti everything power! I love theese dudes put them in a rhino and you with tear shit up.


Actually things like plague marines, khorne bezerkers and noise marines have some cool rules too (not so much noise marines, they have some whacky guns!) the bad thing is they cost alot: 1 thousand son ZApts per model, Bezerker XYpts per model, plague marine ASpts per model and I forgotten how much it is for a noise marine...

Edited to remove the individual point costs - darkreever


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## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

I do not run into that many cheaters, and when I do I tell them they are doing it wrong and beat the s**t out of their armies anyway. At the LGWS I used to frequent, the manager had made a home rule that forced they player to roll a D6 for each unit when he was cheating: the result was the number of models removed as casualties (with no armour saves whatsoever allowed) from an heart attack :grin: 

About the TS: The Bolt of Change power is not mandatory (even if it's seen most of the time). Also remember that they cost A LOT of points, especially the Aspiring Sorcerer (a squad of 8 TS + Sorc is above 250 points without the near mandatory Rhino and Bolt of Change.)


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

Karak The Unfaithful said:


> Actually things like plague marines, khorne bezerkers and noise marines have some cool rules too (not so much noise marines, they have some whacky guns!) the bad thing is they cost alot: 1 thousand son ZApts per model, Bezerker XYpts per model, plague marine ASpts per model and I forgotten how much it is for a noise marine...


my 2500 noisemarine list could rape and pilage anything youre blood god worshiping ass could place on the field. sorry the rivalry runs deep.
Anyways info on noisemarines for you. XX points a model. upgrades include sonic blasters which are bolters but not !. they are @ or # for Xpts a model. the blast master YY point for one model $ or % cant remember but its ^. then there is the doom siren which is my personal favorite of the equipment. & for ZZ points only tooken by champions. they are fearless and are * so they often time strike first. a personal note is to not take a sonic blaster spam along with the blastmaster or doom siren. simply because the shots will be allocated to the amount of wounds so you could potentially only kill a couple of things out right with the QQ weapons. my personal favorite way to run noise marines is in a 5 man squad a champion with a doomsiren and power weapon. and a member wielding a blastmaster in a rhino. you sit them back fire the blastmaster from the hatch of the rhino. and when shit gets withing 18 to 20 inches of youre stuff you jump out move forward 6 fire youre doom siren alone and then assault whatever is left striking at QQ with a power weapon. this has worked many times my 2500 point list of noise marines has yet to lose and honestly the only way i would run noisemarines.

Edited to remove all those individual points or stats - darkreever


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

Dies Irae said:


> .)


someone read storm of iron:biggrin:


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

> my 2500 noisemarine list could rape and pilage anything youre blood god worshiping ass could place on the field. sorry the rivalry runs deep.
> Anyways info on noisemarines for you. XX points a model. upgrades include sonic blasters which are bolters but not !. they are @ or # for Xpts a model. the blast master YY point for one model $ or % cant remember but its ^. then there is the doom siren which is my personal favorite of the equipment. & for ZZ points only tooken by champions. they are fearless and are * so they often time strike first. a personal note is to not take a sonic blaster spam along with the blastmaster or doom siren. simply because the shots will be allocated to the amount of wounds so you could potentially only kill a couple of things out right with the QQ weapons. my personal favorite way to run noise marines is in a 5 man squad a champion with a doomsiren and power weapon. and a member wielding a blastmaster in a rhino. you sit them back fire the blastmaster from the hatch of the rhino. and when shit gets withing 18 to 20 inches of youre stuff you jump out move forward 6 fire youre doom siren alone and then assault whatever is left striking at QQ with a power weapon. this has worked many times my 2500 point list of noise marines has yet to lose and honestly the only way i would run noisemarines.


My beserkers would mkae mincemeat out of your noise marines in CC! and your funny guns would be no help at all! hahahahahahahaha!! (sorry, like you said, its the Khorne-Slaanesh Rivalry thing. I must be getting carried away)

Anyway, speaking as a chaos player in general it sounds pretty good. Although I guessing a squad costs quite alot when you add up the model costs, sonic blasters, blastmaster, doom siren and champion. Hows much on average does a squad cost anyway?


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

Well I was playing this stupid kid who was probably about 16, and he did seem a bit mentally retarded so maybe I'm too rough on him but I don't think I am. Anyways, he was playing space wolves and this was my first time playing that army. All his troop squads (whatever theyre called) somehow had an anti-psyker ability, 4 plasmas, and relentless with a seargent with a power first. I called the bullshit flag after a turn when he revealed this, and the shop manager came over and began to say something but then was called somewhere else for about 20 mins so in that time I just said fuck it and went back to the game and kicked the kids ass. Last time I go to that GW.


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

Karak The Unfaithful said:


> My beserkers would mkae mincemeat out of your noise marines in CC! and your funny guns would be no help at all! hahahahahahahaha!! (sorry, like you said, its the Khorne-Slaanesh Rivalry thing. I must be getting carried away)
> 
> Anyway, speaking as a chaos player in general it sounds pretty good. Although I guessing a squad costs quite alot when you add up the model costs, sonic blasters, blastmaster, doom siren and champion. Hows much on average does a squad cost anyway?


youre brain must not work right follower of a wasteful god. you get off to blood shed while i prefer money women and power. yeah thats right scarface reference. hey it works for slaanesh. lol getting cought up in gods . anyways on average my squads run for 205 points in rhinos. heres my list and like i said its unbeaten. http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=71114


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Minizke1 said:


> Is it just me, or does every little kid who plays 40k, specifically magic or psyker-based armies, make up rules to help himself win by default?


in my experience just you, its not the kids I worry about cheating, its the adults I find cheating the most to win, especially if they play eldar, chaos and marines.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I wonder how much is cheating and how much is just not knowing the rules and wanting to play the game, so what if a kid give a unit the wrong weapons or a different ability, chances are if they dont know what they are doing or are still young enough that imagination and fun is more important than what in the codex, If you come across a kid whos bending the rules leave your ego at home and either walk away or make up some of your own rules and have some fun with it.
When its and adult and they are doing it for an advantage, then its different, but for children give them some slack or avoid playing them.


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

> youre brain must not work right follower of a wasteful god. you get off to blood shed while i prefer money women and power. yeah thats right scarface reference. hey it works for slaanesh. lol getting cought up in gods . anyways on average my squads run for 205 points in rhinos. heres my list and like i said its unbeaten. http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=71114


I had a look (a very quick one) and I don't have any comments about it.
I would choose pointless bloodshed.


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## Master WootWoot (Oct 17, 2010)

I don't make up rules, I just forget some of the real rules now and then. If I ever start CSM, I am sure I would use a lot of psykers, but stay to the original rule system.


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## shas'o Thraka (Jan 4, 2010)

My favourite thing to to when this happens is to make rules to counter there rules.

e.g. theres a kid at a club I go to who player Eldar, he says all his weapons are AP3, and conveniently forgets his codex every game, sooooo.....

I tell him its ok, because my marines all have 3+ invunerable saves =)


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## giavas (Feb 19, 2011)

> The residing "referee" was busy with a blood angels vs. orks match. This kid made up so many fake rules, even he was having trouble keeping track of them.


Well this is why the rules book exists............:victory:


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Kids will be kids, Its the adults that do it you want to be worried about and probably avoid.

SGMAlice


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## Minizke1 (Feb 7, 2010)

Stella Cadente said:


> in my experience just you, its not the kids I worry about cheating, its the adults I find cheating the most to win, especially if they play eldar, chaos and marines.


Well, I actually notic that adults are, well, more mature about it, and that even sometimes the kids'll "forget" their codex so I can't call them out.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Personally I just hate little kids playing Chaos (or adults with the intellect of kids who play Chaos) because they fail to understand the complexity of the fluff and that's why you should play Chaos instead of loyalists in the first place IMO.

That might make me sound like a jerk, but I will open up to being a complete elitist on the subject, as I feel that the Chaos fluff is some of the best written in the whole of 40k and if you don't even try to understand it and resort to stupid cliches then I just don't take you seriously.

It gets reduced to:

Khorne - CHARGE!!!!

Slaanesh - PORN!!!

Nurgle - DISEASE!!!!

Tzeentch - WTF!!!! (lol)

Chaos - ALWAYS HAS TO LOSE OR BE STUPID!!!


That's why the Horus Heresy series has been mostly really refreshing, in that the 'goodies' aren't just the most awesome thing ever.

Although Loken coming back changes all that.

But that's me getting waaayyy off topic.


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## Minizke1 (Feb 7, 2010)

Akhara'Keth said:


> Not always, but there are many people cheating. Younger players are more obsessed with winning, it is the same in TCG like Magic.
> 
> I would like to know which rules he made up, I always like to hear stuff they make up :grin:


The one that really screwed me over, and, as I have no rulebook (my uncle has it, didn't bother bringing it) I couldn't stop him. I had been destroying everything he fielded with a squad of scouts with sniper rifles and a missile launcher. When I went to attack his defiler, he claimed that I could only attack it if I had given the scouts Tank Hunter. I have no Idea what he was talking about. He also claimed that if one model in a squad can see one model in my squad, he can fire with his entire squad on my entire squad. A 10 man chaos marines squad with "ap3" bolters and an aspiring sorcerer completely annihilated my sternguard squad.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Ohoho, believe me, you are not the only one. I got this kid at our club with a horrendously ugly Black Templar army. I played nice and had a game with him since everyone else was busy. A bad mistake. This kid would nitpick the rules like a vulture on carrion until he got what he wanted.

I would have chewed him out, but of course he kept his mother by his side and I didn't want to look like a throbbing dick. It wasn't until after I lost ludicrously and talked to the other regulars and learned that they all too hated his guts. 

Never played with him since.


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## Snake40000 (Jan 11, 2010)

5tonsledge said:


> my 2500 noisemarine list could rape and pilage anything youre blood god worshiping ass could place on the field. sorry the rivalry runs deep.
> Anyways info on noisemarines for you. XX points a model. upgrades include sonic blasters which are bolters but not !. they are @ or # for Xpts a model. the blast master YY point for one model $ or % cant remember but its ^. then there is the doom siren which is my personal favorite of the equipment. & for ZZ points only tooken by champions. they are fearless and are * so they often time strike first. a personal note is to not take a sonic blaster spam along with the blastmaster or doom siren. simply because the shots will be allocated to the amount of wounds so you could potentially only kill a couple of things out right with the QQ weapons. my personal favorite way to run noise marines is in a 5 man squad a champion with a doomsiren and power weapon. and a member wielding a blastmaster in a rhino. you sit them back fire the blastmaster from the hatch of the rhino. and when shit gets withing 18 to 20 inches of youre stuff you jump out move forward 6 fire youre doom siren alone and then assault whatever is left striking at QQ with a power weapon. this has worked many times my 2500 point list of noise marines has yet to lose and honestly the only way i would run noisemarines.





Karak The Unfaithful said:


> Actually things like plague marines, khorne bezerkers and noise marines have some cool rules too (not so much noise marines, they have some whacky guns!) the bad thing is they cost alot: 1 thousand son xx/xxpts per model, Bezerker xxpts per model, plague marine xxpts per model and I forgotten how much it is for a noise marine...



Rawrg Guys dont post spesific point costs why did no one else catch this!!!


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## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

D-A-C said:


> Personally I just hate little kids playing Chaos (or adults with the intellect of kids who play Chaos) because they fail to understand the complexity of the fluff and that's why you should play Chaos instead of loyalists in the first place IMO.
> 
> It gets reduced to:
> 
> ...


Agreed. Although it's nearly the same for every army with some of the youngest players. Orks are WAAAAAAAAGH, Space Marines are the good guys (lol), and so on. However, I have to admit that to me, Khorne will always get reduced to CHARGE!!! Doing it any other way would take the fun out of it :grin:



Snake40000 said:


> Rawrg Guys dont post spesific point costs why did no one else catch this!!!


I was about to say the same thing. 



5tonsledge said:


> Someone has been reading Storm of Iron


(_with Teal'c voice_) Indeed


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## Shag (Jul 12, 2009)

Minizke1 said:


> Well, I actually notic that adults are, well, more mature about it, and that even sometimes the kids'll "forget" their codex so I can't call them out.


How can a player forget a codex?:shok: I think that would just be a red flag there...


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Minizke1 said:


> Well, I actually notic that adults are, well, more mature about it, and that even sometimes the kids'll "forget" their codex so I can't call them out.


how is it more "mature" for a "mature" player to cheat?


Snake40000 said:


> Rawrg Guys dont post spesific point costs why did no one else catch this!!!


because nobody can be fucked to report them to mods anymore?, the amount of times I see posts and army lists with pts costs listed these days is quite suprising, and so many people will say "don't post pts costs" but they'll still be there for weeks


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> because nobody can be fucked to report them to mods anymore?, the amount of times I see posts and army lists with pts costs listed these days is quite suprising, and so many people will say "don't post pts costs" but they'll still be there for weeks


Your no more innocent than anyone else who can't be fucking bothered to report it. Didn't see a reporting of the post from you, Snake, or Dies Irae.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

darkreever said:


> Your no more innocent than anyone else who can't be fucking bothered to report it


never claimed I was did I.


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## GeneralSturnn (Feb 20, 2011)

if someone told me about a rule that I've never heard about, I check on it, they tell me:"I'm not lying! why would I lie?" I say:"you apparently aren't telling the truth or else, I could freely check the rulebook couldn't I?" well, the funny thing is, most players I play against are honest, I just check to be sure, better to lose to skill then to lose to cheating.


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## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

darkreever said:


> Your no more innocent than anyone else who can't be fucking bothered to report it. Didn't see a reporting of the post from you, Snake, or Dies Irae.


unish: I didn't know we were supposed to report it...


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## davidmumma66 (May 11, 2010)

Minizke1 said:


> A 10 man chaos marines squad with "ap3" bolters and an aspiring sorcerer completely annihilated my sternguard squad.


That actually could be an easy noob mistake. Thousand Sons have ap 3 bolter and an aspiring sorcerer, He might have been confused on points cost though, because my first time writing a 1ksons list I didn't realize the sorcerer was 60 points. Luckily though before i played any games with it my friend caught the mistake


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Its not just 12 year olds, people of any age can cheat. Personal rule that I will not play anyone without a codex, period. To much drama.

5tonsledge for the love of my eyes, capital letters, and paragraph breaks PLEASE, I read one line of that massive wall of letters and gave up, not worth the headache.


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

I played against a guy once who used a 1500 pt Tyranid army in a 1200 point game. Rage.


I don't think I've ever played against cheaters, just people who reeeeeeeeaaaaally don't understand the rules of their codexes. I try to play the people who know what they're doing, but they hardly come in. D:


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

I have found older and youger children being cheats as well as anyone else. Now i played a game wher i was teamed up with a kid playin CSM and he had a defiler which he kept behind a wall the entire game tried to say it was a dumb idea to move it out in the open and fire because it might get shot at. I may have come off as a bad sport (which i am not) I tried to explain to him that if u dont you wasted your points and now im having to pick up slack where you refuse to do the smart thing. That progressed to me quitting and telling him he was an idiot and should be taken back to the warp to have a stern talking to by the ruinous powers.

But one of my best and competetive opponents is actuall some lil 15 yr old kid.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Minizke1 said:


> The one that really screwed me over, and, as I have no rulebook (my uncle has it, didn't bother bringing it) I couldn't stop him. I had been destroying everything he fielded with a squad of scouts with sniper rifles and a missile launcher. When I went to attack his defiler, he claimed that I could only attack it if I had given the scouts Tank Hunter. I have no Idea what he was talking about.


Not sure what he was on about, it is true that only with Tank Hunter could Sniper Rifles glance the front of a Defiler though. 




Minizke1 said:


> He also claimed that if one model in a squad can see one model in my squad, he can fire with his entire squad on my entire squad.


Depends how obscured, he can fire on your entire Squad though even if he can only see one guy. 



Minizke1 said:


> A 10 man chaos marines squad with "ap3" bolters and an aspiring sorcerer completely annihilated my sternguard squad.


Thousand Sons have AP3 Bolters. 

Perhaps you both need to learn to play?


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## Luisjoey (Dec 3, 2010)

in my first games of 40k (around 2006) i played with a 9years old kid, he was a pretty decent opponent that crushed me twice in a row, he knew the basic rules well and when i made mistakes he corrected me, never cheated; some adults should take the example.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Never played against any cheater, but I find that people who resort to cheating have pathetic lives, and more than often it is an adult than a child from what I have seen (or heard for the matter).


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## Champion Alaric (Feb 17, 2011)

"Its not just you, but its also not always the case. There are some older people who will do anything in order to win just like some younger people do.

You can also find some younger people who act more adult and as better sports than some older opponents."

So true it hurts


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## Minizke1 (Feb 7, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> Not sure what he was on about, it is true that only with Tank Hunter could Sniper Rifles glance the front of a Defiler though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I get where you're coming from, and, actually, he was counting the ten man squad as normal Chaos Space Marines. But, hey, it's my third match. what're you gonna do?


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Minizke1 said:


> So I'm a new player, only about 3 games under my belt. My most recent game was against some 12-year-old who played Thousand Sons. The residing "referee" was busy with a blood angels vs. orks match. This kid made up so many fake rules, even he was having trouble keeping track of them. Is it just me, or does every little kid who plays 40k, specifically magic or psyker-based armies, make up rules to help himself win by default?


I've found that no matter how many people I play, the adults cheat way more than the kids. Especially if money becomes involved, or pride.

Teenagers and below don't give much of a damn about either, but I've seen a grown man break down into huffing and tears at 'ard boyz while suffering losses. And I've also seen a 12 year old politely pick up a decimated, run-down unit and simply shrug in good natured manner.

tl;dr= Being older doesn't make you more mature.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

We once had a 30 something yr old cheater that only played in tournements(he was eventually banned) We called him narl or combat carl. This dude was a piece of work he would submit his list then play with a list that not only included his original list + about 1000pt extra stuff. He also would take advantage of any yourger player to the extreme. People didnt get too suspicous until they notcied he was tableing every opponent he went up aginst. (i was about 16 at the time) Then he faced me. The future analyst to be. I have always known my rules and how the army works, also im a very logical thinker as well. This fool tried to take shots through a single hole in a wall with 4 missile launchers( he played CSM mind you havocs were only allowed 3 back then) and then stated i can't see him so i can't fire at him even though he tring to take shots at me the whole time. My favorite one though was he was able to see a SM's foot just the tip of his foot and tried to take that shot. I wound up tabling this guy despite his retarded list and then he tried to say i cheated. He wound up in the end taking home first until i said by the way let me see your army list.(since i wasnt tabled but yet everyone else was) I took his list then added all his points and found it to be about 3500 pts.I looked at this guy and simply asked what math system did you use to build this because im seeing you being about 1500 pts over. His reply was "oh that damned computer program army builder must be wrong because i used army builder.(his list was hand written) My reply was an easy one and is what got him banned form even being in the store. " well thats funny because i used army builder as well and my list is completely to the point correct and yes i checked it and did the math myself" He tried to argue and even wanted to take it outside when my brother in law (ex army scout) jumped in said well if you would like to fight for real you will face both of us and i don't know where you got you close combat training but well lets just say the US Army trained me well."


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

> I have found older and youger children being cheats as well as anyone else. Now i played a game wher i was teamed up with a kid playin CSM and he had a defiler which he kept behind a wall the entire game tried to say it was a dumb idea to move it out in the open and fire because it might get shot at. I may have come off as a bad sport (which i am not) I tried to explain to him that if u dont you wasted your points and now im having to pick up slack where you refuse to do the smart thing. That progressed to me quitting and telling him he was an idiot and should be taken back to the warp to have a stern talking to by the ruinous powers.
> 
> But one of my best and competetive opponents is actuall some lil 15 yr old kid.


what? A defiler behind a wall for the entire game? Thats just a waste of points. For those of you who do not play chaos defilers are huge six-legged dreadnaughts with massive claws, and are best used out in the open. You are not a bad sport, but you were right kepping it behind a wall is VERY stupid because no one is ganna attack something that isn't being used.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

I don't think every 12 year old plays like that. I mean, I know some little kid I played at a local tourney. He handed my ass to me on a plate 

Totally not cheating


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Karak The Unfaithful said:


> what? A defiler behind a wall for the entire game? Thats just a waste of points. For those of you who do not play chaos defilers are huge six-legged dreadnaughts with massive claws, and are best used out in the open. You are not a bad sport, but you were right kepping it behind a wall is VERY stupid because no one is ganna attack something that isn't being used.


Im glad you agree. I have fouund that most the time when some of the yourger players cheat its not on purpose but mostly a lack of experianceand they are still learning. I used to rind a one kid all the time about his shrouding ability with the GK and another about his faith points.


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## Guardsman Novick (Feb 23, 2011)

I just started playing again after about a ten year haiaitus. But I remember when I had just started, i had 500pts space marines. The guy who ran games at the store didn't moderate much, and I got tired of listening to the kid cry about my razorback with a lascannon and twin linked plasmaguns, so i let him field his 1500 space marine army which somehow consisted of only terminators. I figured just see how many I can kill, until he said they all deep struck with locator beacons, and since I had a tank, it was only fair. Didn't really bother me too much because it only wasted like five minutes of my day.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Guardsman Novick said:


> I just started playing again after about a ten year haiaitus. But I remember when I had just started, i had 500pts space marines. The guy who ran games at the store didn't moderate much, and I got tired of listening to the kid cry about my razorback with a lascannon and twin linked plasmaguns, so i let him field his 1500 space marine army which somehow consisted of only terminators. I figured just see how many I can kill, until he said they all deep struck with locator beacons, and since I had a tank, it was only fair. Didn't really bother me too much because it only wasted like five minutes of my day.


I dont have issues with kids at all what i do have a problen with is lil kids touching my models with there grubby lil hand without asking first


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## Brother Arnold (Aug 29, 2010)

Well, I haven't had any issues with opponents who cheat or don't really know what they're doing, and most of the time I get tabled or have to forfeit because the dice just handed me my ass. However just recently I was talking to this kid at my school who plays SW and we were discussing how a Beastmaster pack with two Beastmasters a pair of Clawed Fiends would do against a unit of Wolf Guard Terminators.
Now, I don't know the SW codex as well as I think I should, but he claimed that the Terminators could take both frost axes and thunder hammers, something which would cause so many arguments there's no way it would be legal. The kid decided he would calculate the strength bonuses from each so the Wolf Guards' strength was ten and he was able to instant kill the Clawed Fiends, even though I pointed out that it might also be TH first then frost axes after bringing it to S9.
Then the kid changed it to a charging unit of 10 Thunderwolf Cavalry, which would have 70 attacks on the charge. He decided to assume that he rolled perfectly, and said he'd have re-rolls to wound even though he picked TH/SS (although that could just have been a special rule Thunderwolf Cav has, I don't know). The Clawed Fiends would die instantly according to him, and then I asked how much the Thunderwolf unit cost. It was about 800pts, four times as much as the Beastmaster unit cost. I told him that that would be over half the points cost for a regular sized game, at which point we started talking about an actual game rather than just pitching two units against each other. I said I could bring them down with weight of fire, and with Raiders going around the place I could keep at a safe distance. So then he brought in some Longfangs to "shoot down my kites". I said he wouldn't have enough points for his compulsory choices, and he said Canis Wolfborn made Thunderwolves Troops, which sounded fair enough to me. But I said that he still needed another Troops choice, to which he said he could just stuff the Thunderwolf Cavalry into Rhinos. Aside from the incredibly dubious "Dedicated Transport as Troops choices", there was also the issue of stuffing MASSIVE FRICKING WOLF CAVALRY into a transport which can't even fit Terminators in it. Apparently it can fit five Thunderwolf Cavalry models in it. Hold on, that was one unit of ten wasn't it?
Then when I protested that, he just went "nenenenenenene" and ended the conversation. I made a mental note to never play against him.


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## Shaun (Aug 7, 2010)

Don't bother playing little kids its that simple, little kids come in all ages.
I don't have a friendly local games workshop. The GW shops I have played over in the states and in New Zealand have taught me some simple truths.

Don't play against kids who have an all proxy army its a high probability they don't know the codex they are using that well.

Don't play a cold game, listen to how current games are going nearby, any issues you hear that are going badly mark the player as "don't accept"

I dislike the strange rules people, the dice turners, the list fudgers, the tank surfers, they bother me less these days its no loss to me as you seldom learn anything from playing cheaters.


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## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

annoyingly there is always someone like that


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

Damn im quite lucky it seems. There are no cheaters where I live and if your using a new codex or playing a new expansion there are going to be mistakes and that is about all the "cheating" I see.


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## Arm1tage (Feb 10, 2011)

Are there actually people fudging lists?


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## shogunboy (Jan 18, 2011)

Luckly, I haven't had any issues with cheating at my FLGS, but there was 1-2 incident where someone was playing an incomplete monolith in one tournment, and the same guy later went over 35 points for his necron forces. Otherwise, I did have a slight trouble with a kid new the game. I played him once with him and his father, and lucky it didn't become a big issues. Basically,it was that he was adding on rules to make his game more fluffy despite the fact I did nicely told him that learning the rules is more important until you are familiar rules.


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

Luckily, the only "cheater" I've ever come across was a 16 year old who liberally applied the 6" movement for dismounted troops. I didn't really care, though at the end I told him he should be more careful with measuring in the future (I.e. measuring from the front of the base then placing the rear of it at 6")


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## a_bad_curry (Mar 10, 2011)

uhh.. Tsons do have ap3 bolters

Im pretty slack with rules, but once some 10 year old at GW was saying that His ultrasmurfs had all these fancy special rules and statlines AND refused for me to see his list or codex. it turned out he was using a combo of BA, SW and DA codices, cutting out the best bits and applying them to his army. I asked him again what points his army had, and he stayed silent. My eldar had 1000 pts, and his 'Smurfs' had 1300. I got pissed and threw one of his models at him, so both me and that guy got banned for a week

Also, even though the kids 'might' be learning the game, they generally know that they are cheating anyway. Being 15 myself, i can say that while some kids wont know they are cheating, most will


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

a_bad_curry said:


> uhh.. Tsons do have ap3 bolters
> 
> Im pretty slack with rules, but once some 10 year old at GW was saying that His ultrasmurfs had all these fancy special rules and statlines AND refused for me to see his list or codex. it turned out he was using a combo of BA, SW and DA codices, cutting out the best bits and applying them to his army. I asked him again what points his army had, and he stayed silent. My eldar had 1000 pts, and his 'Smurfs' had 1300. I got pissed and threw one of his models at him, so both me and that guy got banned for a week
> 
> ...



Yo got pissed off...and threw a ten year old's model at him...? If I were you thats not exactly something I would go around saying....


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## Shadowbadger (Jan 2, 2011)

When I was a naive kid I played in a game at the GW store. It was the release of the epic imperator titans and I had one on one side and an older guy (in his thirties maybe) convinced me to not fire upon his titan and he would do the same, allowing them both to have a bit of a game.

You can see where this went, well done, you have tricked a kid.

The shop staff then promptly resurrected my titan.

I know this is not cheating but it highlights how important winning is to some people of all ages. I would rather play an interesting game myself than spam one overpowered unit that an army cannot handle well.


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## VX485 (Feb 17, 2011)

There was a kid at my local who played black legion and did tend to cheat a bit, not making up rules etc. but just being way over points and when i called him on it, was just a case of 'oh' from him. I didnt get angry with him but did say politly that next time he needs to write up a list and have the correct amount of points because other people may not be so forgiving.

That said i did play him a few more times and it took a few games before he really got into the proper list building (after my friendly reminders). He hasnt been to the store for a while, would like to play him again (getting tired of just playing against orks and SW)

Winning, everyone likes to win, but when people try to win at all costs as i tend to see more in tournamets the 'social' factor goes out the window. I'm all for a competitive game but i always play fairly and exppect the same from my opponent.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

The only cheating i've ever experienced is from inch pinchers. We've probably all experienced it.

I caught a guy out once a while ago. He came on from reserve with a unit of bezerkers on foot and managed to charge one of my units a couple of turns later. He wouldn't accept that he was wrong until I measured the distance from his board edge to my unit. Around 31 inches. I then pointed out that he could only have caught me if I was within 24 inches of his edge. 2 moves, a run (and I know he didn't roll a six) and a charge. He had pinched 7 inches over the two turns and thought I wouldn't notice.


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## Shadowbadger (Jan 2, 2011)

The early Citadel Journals had an article or two listing cheaters tactics. Knowing the length of your forearm for a casual lean over the table was one.

Some more extreme (although unconfirmed) reports had High Elf Spearmen sporting Krak Grenades.


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## vulcan539 (May 17, 2010)

Odd, the biggest cheating iv had was a kid who was running 1750 BA in a 1000pt game when I first starred playing 6 odd years ago, and someone claiming they could run as many death company as they liked because they were free with out taking the test thing BA's have. 
out side those two times, the most annoying thing is 12/13 yr olds leaving after 1st turn when there uber awesome little kid rant about SM is proven wrong when I play my IG vs them.


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## shogunboy (Jan 18, 2011)

vulcan539 said:


> Odd, the biggest cheating iv had was a kid who was running 1750 BA in a 1000pt game when I first starred playing 6 odd years ago, and someone claiming they could run as many death company as they liked because they were free with out taking the test thing BA's have.
> out side those two times, the most annoying thing is 12/13 yr olds leaving after 1st turn when there uber awesome little kid rant about SM is proven wrong when I play my IG vs them.


And I thought it was bad with some Dark eldar players leaving at turn 2-3. Guess then again, some people seem to forget the fact winning isn't everything.

A bit off topic, but I think the title needs to be changed since this isn't really a topic all about kids playing chaos.


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## hells (Mar 11, 2011)

haha accidents happen too, i remember one of my smashing loses where i was blown away by massed IG, after i left the store i reliased id feilded the wrong list and used 1750 points in a 1500 game >< served me right xD

all in all stats and rules do end up mistaken from time to time, no matter how many times ive read my codex and like to think i remember all my stat lines i double check most stuff cause i tend to mix up a few numbers here and there, mistakes happen, alot in my case too :/ but im getting better and better mainly cause i always double check stats now


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## VX485 (Feb 17, 2011)

TheSpore said:


> I dont have issues with kids at all what i do have a problen with is lil kids touching my models with there grubby lil hand without asking first


That is a pet hate of mine, i dont even like it when they do ask most of the time, speically when they are over fed, struggling to breath while standing up, stub fingered spoilt tubs of lard (as you can probably tell i dont like them). Too many times has a model of mine been dropped and come apart needing to be fixed


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I`ve come to know a few cheaters in my area. 

They don`t last. :so_happy:


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

> I`ve come to know a few cheaters in my area.
> 
> They don`t last.


I'm lucky, their are no cheaters in my area. apart from this one guy who always cheated and I beat him in 90% of the matches we played...while he was cheating. Haven't seen him for about a year now.


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## Supersonic Banana (Jul 23, 2010)

sometimes i tell people that its my first ever game even though ive been playing for 3 years so i can laugh at the outrageous bollocks they come up with.

If your facing someone when it's their first ever game ffs dont take advantage of them.

Im 15 and i hate little shits giving my age group a bad name.


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

> sometimes i tell people that its my first ever game even though ive been playing for 3 years so i can laugh at the outrageous bollocks they come up with.
> 
> If your facing someone when it's their first ever game ffs dont take advantage of them.
> 
> Im 15 and i hate little shits giving my age group a bad name.


I agree, you shouldn't cheat (especialy around little kids who are having their first game)

Conclusion:
cheating = bad


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## Ghost792 (Jan 6, 2010)

I had a game against a kid's IG on Sunday. I used a bolt of change on his Sentinel because I didn't have a better target, but his Sentinel was getting a cover save. He rolls a 3. Then he says "oh wait, I think I gave it a Camo Cloak". My response was "you've waited until now to tell me and it seems like you are pulling it out of your arse, I'm not allowing it". So then the Sentinel explodes. The thing is is that this kid has been playing long enough to know better, so it makes me wonder if he's tried this on anyone else.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

I dont think a sentinel can have a camo cloak anyways..


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## overlordsson (Aug 5, 2010)

That is why I always, let me rephrase that, ALWAYS have a rule book next to me at all times so that way you can look it up if he is right, If you can't find it, he is surly cheating and making up rules.


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## bluemeenie (Mar 9, 2011)

I response to the OP's first post...First of all I think most kids are drawn to Chaos because of all the cool monsters..I have a 9 year old and when I took him to my LGS the first time to pick out an army (he started showing interest) he was immediate drawn to choas book cover....so you will more likely see them playing that (or really any dark/evil race) rebelious role....kinda like most really older (50ish) players usually go for the IG's or in fantasy empire it seems like to me. (not to lump everyone but it just seem like that).

Now to the cheating...I'm pretty linient and know that this game is pretty big from a rules standpoint and young kids under 17 (hell even 21) have very short attention spans and from my experience don't really read the rules but scan them or just play the rules as they are given to them (experience)...

If you call them on it, and show them normally the look is of dumbfoundedness....or what I call the "awe shucks mister, I didn't mean nothing" (those who are old enough will get that qoute  )....

Maybe its the father in me but I find that usually the very young kids (9-14) usually aren't blatently trying to cheat they are just doing the above...and can be corrected. I myself have done that on occasion and usually it mainly comes from remembering an old 1st or 2nd edition rule that has been removed.

That said though if I play a young kid enough that he keeps "making mistakes" I'll usually tell him that until he reads the whole book and learns his army he can just keep it in the bag...and others around my LGS do the same...those types don't last long.


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## Epidemius (Nov 15, 2010)

The kid might of just confused some things. and thousand sons are actually really good (relentless; fearless; and yes, AP 3 bolters). what were some of the fake rules he used?


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## connor (Jan 31, 2011)

well lately my last two games have been a 2v2 with some of my freinds, and well the one kid plays tau and every time he rage quits the game, leaving his ally their to fend off a army of SM and IG. 
the first match went like this, (keep in mind i have never even picked up a Tau codex so i have no idea what their special rules are) 
me and tau kidvs 2 space marine forces
turn1:SP player1 uses his grand masters orbital bombardment and lands a direct hit on his only devilfish, 3 on damage table and destroys rail gun. next his land raider moves up and shoot its lascannons at his group of broadsides, of course he hit them and they all got double toughed. pretty much after that he deep striked his crisis commander into the heart of the enemy army it scatterred to far and he rolled a 1 on the mishap table and the unit was destroyed, then he just sends his fire warriors headlong into assault with terminaters because "theirs nothing left i can do in this game" meanwhile im standing their thinking about how he has S5 rapid fire weapons.


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

> well lately my last two games have been a 2v2 with some of my freinds, and well the one kid plays tau and every time he rage quits the game, leaving his ally their to fend off a army of SM and IG.
> the first match went like this, (keep in mind i have never even picked up a Tau codex so i have no idea what their special rules are)
> me and tau kidvs 2 space marine forces
> turn1:SP player1 uses his grand masters orbital bombardment and lands a direct hit on his only devilfish, 3 on damage table and destroys rail gun. next his land raider moves up and shoot its lascannons at his group of broadsides, of course he hit them and they all got double toughed. pretty much after that he deep striked his crisis commander into the heart of the enemy army it scatterred to far and he rolled a 1 on the mishap table and the unit was destroyed, then he just sends his fire warriors headlong into assault with terminaters because "theirs nothing left i can do in this game" meanwhile im standing their thinking about how he has S5 rapid fire weapons.


speaking from a tau point of view, he is a fool and needs a long, long chat with the Ethereals on T'au because you do not assault with tau (wether you can shoot or not!)


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## Malferion (Mar 9, 2011)

I have a friend who is not 12 years old who will make up rules. I know when he does it, but I usually don't need to call him out on it because somebody else walks by and overhears something and lectures him. It's pretty funny whenever it happens


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## Minizke1 (Feb 7, 2010)

Okay, to be clear, A) I didn't mean to bash on Chaos. B)I'm aware of Thousand Sons AP3 bolters. His Chaos Space Marines Squad was using AP3 bolters. C)I know that little kids aren't the only ones who cheat like little punks.


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## Exile13 (Mar 14, 2011)

I find the best way to deal with cheaters is to pick out the units he cheats with most and kill them first. Then continue to beat them mercilessly and gloat incessantly about how you still won.:victory: Of course I do play chaos...


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

Dark Reapers would solve this problem.


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