# Another noob who cant figure out which Army to play; sorry guys



## Karchev23 (Dec 15, 2011)

Once again sorry for posting this, just been thinking about it abit in my spare time. Basically once I finish my Basic Training il be posted to a Base where Il have pretty much nothing to do but train, shoot stuff and do Drill. So I'm going to need something to do in my spare time down there ( which I will have alot of ). I have decided to get back into Fantasy since afew of my Mates already in the Army have set up a club down in the base where i'l most likely be posted too. Ive narrowed the Armies down too these

Ogre Kingdoms
Dark Elves
High Elves
Empire ( when the new book comes out )
Orcs & Gobo's 
Skaven


Any suggestions would be much appreciated, and if so could I please know alittle bit about the play style and how expensive the Army would be to put together.

Cheers!


----------



## Konrad_von_Carstein (Nov 21, 2011)

What kind of an army do you want to play all of these armies have different play styles.


----------



## Karchev23 (Dec 15, 2011)

Im honestly not sure, I usually play just to have fun and I love to play different types of Armies in my games. I play Warmahordes mostly, Soooo yeah. If theres anything I prefer is Infantry heavy Armies.


----------



## Lord Azune (Nov 12, 2011)

Infantry heavy, go gobbo.


----------



## NíckUK (Apr 6, 2011)

I'd suggest either skaven or gobbos if you want infantry.


----------



## Karchev23 (Dec 15, 2011)

While I do like Infantry heavy I do like to have alittle bit of everything, So cav etc. O&G's seem like a good choice, While I do love the warmongering Orciness, Orcs and Goblins dont really do anything for me. But il probably end up giving them a go.

Cheers!!


----------



## misfratz (Feb 9, 2012)

Karchev23 said:


> While I do like Infantry heavy I do like to have alittle bit of everything, So cav etc. O&G's seem like a good choice, While I do love the warmongering Orciness, Orcs and Goblins dont really do anything for me. But il probably end up giving them a go.
> 
> Cheers!!


To me this says: Don't do Orcs and Goblins!

It sounds too much of the thought process I went through when I started Fantasy. I was really attracted to Dwarfs, but I felt that I wanted cavalry too. So I decided to do Empire - who can do a bit of everything. Now, I don't dislike my Empire army, but if I had my time again I'd definitely go for Dwarfs, because that's where my heart is.

I'd advise a non-rational way of making this decision. Take a good look at the basic troops for each of the armies you have short-listed, and just see which one inspires you the most, or that you'd want to paint most or whose character you like. Maybe it's the underhanded sneakiness of the Skaven, or the haughty superiority of the High Elves?

It might even be worth buying a single box just as a test, before committing to a single army.

Otherwise I fear that you'll end up with a pile of unpainted miniatures and a lack of motivation to finish the army off.


----------



## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

second that


----------



## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

Let's talk about High Elves.

High Elf playstyle is all about our infantry tearing accros the board at full pelt and getting stuck into melee while our Magi buff and debuff. We're fast and killy and we generally look good doing it.

High Elves have a strong movement and CC phase phase and are very strong in the Magic phase, but our shooting is sub-par. Some say we simply don't have any truely good shooting units - I go further and say all our shooting units are actually _bad_.


All High Elves have a special rule: Speed of Asuryan. That means that, regardless of initiative they Always Strike First (ASF). In addition, if the Elves' initiative is equal to or higher than the enemy's (and it usually is), they reroll to-hit.

High Elves ASF _regardless of weapon_. Even with Greatweapons, we hit first.

That means high Elves almost always hit (high natural init means we have rerolls most of the time) and almost always wound (our good troops have STR4-6 due to weapons carried).

This is not nearly so powerful as sounds, since elves are weak and have thin armour, but it is cool, and very flavourful. We are very very glass-cannon. We hit first, and kill lots, but if the bad guys survive, they kill lots back.

We have good stats, even basic Core are WS/BS4 I5 Ld8, and it only goes up from there. We also have movement 5 across the board, and that combined with our small numbers mean we can mostly out-manouver the other guy in the Movement phase.

We pay for that by having some of the most expensive troops in the game.

The High Elf force is actually one of the least cookie-cutter armies in the game right now. No two people agree on just what the ideal list is, and in fact, most people differ significantly. That's nice.

However, there are some common elements.

Your typical High elf army is led by a Level 4 High Elf Mage.

Like All High Elf Magi, he has an extra+1 to Dispel enemy magic (for +5 total) which is very very useful. He has good leadership (9) and like all elves, he moves fast and has good initiative, with Always Strike first (not that you want him in CC).

High Elf Mages may choose from nine Lores of Magic. More than any other army in the game. They may use their own Lore of High Magic, or any of the eight Lores in the main rulebook.

(Most armies have access to only a few core Lores, some have their own Lore as well or instead. Only High Elves have their own Lore AND access to all eight core Lores)

High Elves also have some of the best wizard-enhancing magic items in the game, such as the Silver Wand which grants an extra spell, and the Banner of Sorcery which adds an additional d3 Power Dice to our casting pool, making for a very strong Magic Phase, or the Annulian Crystal which reduces the enemy's casting pool and buffs our dispelling pool at the same time.

We don't have the best magic in the game, or the best anti-magic, but no other army comes close to our combined magic/anti-magic.

High Elf combat characters are not the best in the game, but have a number of key advantages.

Unlike anyone else, Elves may wield Great Weapons without the initiative penalty. In fact, even with a Great Weapon, Elves Always Strike First - that means not only do Elf characters hit hard, they hit first.

High Elf magic items mean that a fighty elf Lord will often have a 2+ rerollable armour save, 4+ ward, a 2+ Ward against fire and will often make the enemy reroll succesfull armour and ward saves.

Since a Great Weapon is so useful to us, our Characters almost never need a Magic Weapon, which frees up points for other magic items, of which we have a lot of good ones.

High Elf Core Troops are normally a large block of spearmen or several small units of Archers (our archers are crap, but people will insist on using them, go figure), or a blend. All our core troops have excellent WS and BS, Always Strike First and usually re-roll to-hit, allowing them to go toe-to-toe with even the elite troops of other armies. Elf spearmen and Seaguard always fight with one rank more than any other army's Spearmen allowing for a huge volume of attacks.

Our core troops also have high Leadership (8). Elf spearmen with the spell Mindrazor (use Leadership instead of strength to wound) make other armies cry for their mummies. Yeah, 51 STR 8 reroll to-hit attacks will do that.

High Elf Special however, is where we truely shine.

First, unlike any other army in the game, we can field more than two of the same kind of Special and Rare units. Hell yeah.

Swordmasters are like an elf-shaped buzzsaw. WS6, STR5, I5, two attacks each, Always Strike First. See that hoard of badguys. Boom, gone. Next. I use three units of 14 in my standard lists - the redundancy compensates for their fagility.

White Lions. Yeah, that's right, they're _lion-strangling lumberjack Elves_. Strength SIX! Stubborn with a 3+ save Vs shooting. Our go-to Monster Killers.

Phoenix Guard. *Four. Plus. Ward.* These guys have 5+ armour and if that fails they still have that 4+ ward. Only Strength four but with that Ward, add in the Banner of the World Dragon (unit is utterly immune to magic) and you have an anvil that will survive anything.

Dragon Princes may just be the best heavy Cavalry in the game. 2+ armour AND 2+ ward against flaming attacks, Elven Steeds (faster than other horses, and twice as elven!) Two attacks at WS5/I6 Always Strike First, STR5 on the charge.


High Elf Rare units are all about Great Eagles.

To quote from one of my regular opponants 'Those Eagles aren't strong, but they're so annoying!'

Yes. Yes they are, that's how you know I'm using them right. Whether it's hunting war machines, blocking marchers, preventing charges or just getting the hell in the other guy's way, Eagles are there.

High elves are not a top-tier army, but they are hugely fun to play. They have a massive list of funky tricks and really reward the technical playstyle.

Elf Weaknesses are resistance, discounting characters and cavalry, nothing in our army has an armour save better than 5+ and nothing has a parry save. All Elves are Toughness 3.

All elves are on 20mm bases, and cost a lot of points, typically around twice as much as a human with a similar role. Small bases and high points mean we have about the highest points to area ratio in the game and that hurts when templates start flying.

We are also weak in the shooting phase. We have expensive, crappy Archers and one very overcosted war machine.

We are also almost always outnumbered both in terms of units and models. We have good Leadership, but if even one of your units does run, that is a massive problem from which you mightn't recover.

As good as our Magi are, they are very expensive. (The downside of army-wide ASF is that we pay for it, even on models that should not be in combat, like Magi and Archers). We can really dominate the magic-phase, but expect to pay up to 25% of your total points to do it.


Model-wise, we have some of the best, and some of the worst models in the game. Our Archers and spearmen are just plain ugly. Damn they are ugly. and you've got to use them... feels bad, man.

On the other hand, Dragon Princes are superb - a real joy to paint and they look ace on the table. Our Dragon is also a sight to behold.

It's definately an army that will let you have fun as a painter or converter.


As for cost... You may think Island of Blood will save you a ton of money, but you'd be wrong. The only really useful models in the set are the Swordmasters and the Mage.

Swordmasters are lovely and cheap, around £10 for ten, and it is possible to convert the griphon and use it as a counts-as eagle, but mostly you'll be buying the normal kits. Given that we're an elite army it's not the most expensive to collect, but expect to drop a goodly amount of cash.

My 2'000 point lists have between 90 and 100 or so models depending on how I'm building.


----------



## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

Karchev23 said:


> Ogre Kingdoms
> Dark Elves
> High Elves
> Empire ( when the new book comes out )
> ...


Ogre Kingdoms:

A very powerful army. They have amazing shooting, combat and movement to dictate where and when it all takes place. Monstrous Infantry that can't be thunder stomped by hellpits and the like.
 Some not so old models and some AMAZING models in their new range. 
 Not a high model count (except the all gnoblar army) so you can usually even buy a full one from the store for about 400-500 bucks.
Dark Elves

A very powerful army that depends on treachery and guile. Not a straight forward 'rawr smash' army. They're fragile and not terribly strong as a whole. Rock solid leadership, cheap as dirt core and some of the most nasty and loop-hole filled items out there. 
 Their core is ok; corsairs and dark riders can make a smaller more 'elite' army. and the most the models are dated. These alone made me want to quit DE. If you can't stand painting that 25%, well, you're in for a long haul. 
 Re-rolls to hit in first turn. Huge. very big. 'to hit' is where the combat is decided
 acess to some great , albeit expensive on the pocket, monsters
 high model count.

Empire
well, as they are...


High model count. Some amazing minatures. Loads of diversity. Who else has resplendent knights, tanks, cannons, doomsday-hippies-of-death, ranks of infantry, black powder weapons and holy shrines that piss all over your parade? 
 formidable magic defense
 ability to change strategy in any list. Never really bound to one type of army. ...just don't be that guy who turtles in a corner with hell-blaster,hellstorm,cannons, mortars and steam tank. (special place in hell for them) 
 Access to potent artillery, but most troops are wet-paper bags in a fight.

....well, it's all up for grabs now, as the book is rumored to be the next. 

skaven: 


If you're looking to power game. it's the book for you
 if you're looking to paint hundreds upon hundreds of models, it's for you.
 some great models.
 

hope it helps.


----------



## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Good basic review by Blackspline except for Skaven. They have excellent magic, interesting shooting (warp lighting cannon, poison wind mortars, warpfire throwers, gutter runners shooting skirmishers), lots of core troops that act as tar pits, and some unusual models that can be potent in the hellpit abon and doomwheel. They even have a decent fighting character in the war lord on a litter. Skaven are not broken but they are a top tier army.


8th edition is now pretty balanced and becoming more balanced with the new army books being mostly balanced and competitive (Tomb Kings are struggling a bit relative to Ogres, Orcs and Goblins, and Vampire Counts). 

Of the armies listed above,
Without the use of special characters in some of the 7th edition books and/or mild comp/sports emphasis:

Dark Elves are consistently top tier (along with Lizardmen) but are not easy to play

Ogres and Skaven are top tier or close to top tier. 

Empire and Orcs and Goblins are both now very competitive armies and can do well in tourneys if run right.

High Elves are struggling and slightly below average unless allowed access to the lord level characters and Book of Hoeth (which are broken and not fair to play against and therefore often banned in Indy GTs in the US). 

Arguments are for choosing an army with a relatively new book (like Skaven, Orcs and Goblins, and Ogres) because the models will be newer and you will have the ability to play the army longer before having to change it and buy additional models.


----------



## BozlyLittle (Jul 3, 2011)

dont wait for a new book to come out... it'll never happen if you wait


----------



## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Yes, but you can be pretty sure that armies with relatively new books will not get a new book any time soon. I would not hold my breath for a new Dwarf, Wood Elf, or Brettonian book, as GW seems to have forgotten how long those books have not been update and how much two of those books badly need a new book.


----------



## misfratz (Feb 9, 2012)

olderplayer said:


> I would not hold my breath for a new Dwarf, Wood Elf, or Brettonian book


The other thing about this is that the plastic kits that these armies do have are all good quality. If you started with those you'd probably be kept quite busy for a fair old while, before you had to consider whether to go for the existing models in the rest of the range, or not.


----------



## stalarious (Aug 25, 2011)

Personally I would go skaven having read the army book they have the fun rules like o&g
they have a heavy monster that players dont like. And they are the only army that lets you shoot into combat. Thats right shoot INTO combat.

Also the models are sweet IMO


----------



## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

I'd go for Orcs and Goblins myself, (slight bias here since a new greenskin player for 8th) purely for the vast amount of variety that you can fit into your lists.

They have Good Infantry Units capable of holding up and grinding down enemy units in the way of Savage Orcs/ Orc Boyz, Night Goblin Hordes (with nets and fanatics) these usually form the anvils for the bigger stuff to hit such as....

Savage Orc Boar Boyz, Orc Boar Boys, Chariots, Trolls, Giants, Big Spiders (not for me mind) at the moment I'm playing around with the idea of 14 Savage Orc Boar Boy Big Un's with Additional Hand Weapons and armour piercing banner along with Terror Causing Character for a nasty suprise (especially Ogres failing Fear test, the look on the players face is priceless.)

Also warmachines are dirt cheap 6 Bolt Throwers for 210 points, thats the easiest selection I have ever had to make, plus they are part and parcel of the fantasy world, imagine warhammer without Orcs


----------



## stalarious (Aug 25, 2011)

wait your name is ratvan and your siding with Orcs?
Im confused.lol


----------



## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

its a nickname from work, I enter sewers on a regular basis (Sewer Rat) its just pure chance that I decided against being a skaven player


----------

