# Vallejo



## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Recieved this from Maelstrom games, thought i'd share for info:

"Hi there,

Every now and again a supplier informs us of a price increase and whilst most of the time the changes are relatively minor and occur without fuss, this one's big - so we're telling you all about it! Acrylicos Vallejo, that wonderful paint company from Spain, have decided to increase the prices of the individual paints within their major paint ranges - Model Color, Model Air and Game Color - to £2.10 each, as well as pretty much everything else they produce." 

I have a few of these paints but never been a fan of the dropper bottles - too much waste!


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

So they've cranked their prices up to GW levels for what alot of people consider to be an inferior product, what with the new GW paints?

Smart move guys.


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## Angelofdeath690 (Sep 21, 2011)

well that news sucks since i use the pastel colors for my models >< this makes me sad.


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

Hmmm but is it true ?

I have searched other sites and I cannot find a mention of it - could Malestrom games be err'ing on the side of caution - I have to admit I find it strange that company would warn its prospective buyers of an inpending price hike unless they expected a quick fire sale in return?

While I have a shii...shed load of GW paints - I have yet to use Vallejo, infact I am looking forward to it - since I have a lot of models to paint the dropper and pallet solution seems like a good idea - since theres over 

60 Tactical Marines
25 Terminators
10 Jump Assault Marines
5 Vanguard Jump Marines
5 Dreadnoughts
6 Bikes
2 Attack Bikes
2 Land Speeders
1 Rhino / Razorback
1 Whirlwind

I have my work cut out for me!

hmmm spray paint..... ooohhhh Army Modeler =)


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

GrizBe said:


> So they've cranked their prices up to GW levels for what alot of people consider to be an inferior product, what with the new GW paints?
> 
> Smart move guys.


Never heard anyone say that Vallejo are inferior... Some don't like the droppers, so love them. But the paint itself is of excellent quality. Most world-class painters that I'v read/seen tutorial from (Laurent Esposito Mas, Jenerie Bonamant) classify them as high-quality, on par with GW's and Andrea's.

When you get into airbrushing, Vallejo's are definitely better than GW's though. I'll have to try the "new" GW paints, but the old one are really harder to dilute properly and still get good coverage. 

Phil


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## kuriojichan (Apr 19, 2012)

Roughly a 17% price hike. A shame if true (as there are still many colours I want to get) but tbh not massively crazy. If they priced themselves higher than GW I'd question the logic of that but on par... why not? Do people just buy them because they're cheap?

My new paint collection is, apart from 3 colours, exclusively Vallejo and I think they're great. I'd still pay the slightly higher price if I really needed yet another shade of green...

Worth considering that Spain is in a world of economic mess right now so there could be all kinds of reasons behind (maybe forcing) such a pricing move.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

the dirty price gouging bastards, they put there prices up all the time! i can no longer afford to paint my models as all my paints have mysteriously evaporated while i typed this post so i am forced to buy more!!! bollocks i quit the hobby!!!


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

@boreas: I did say the NEW GW paints. Alot of painters have said the new ones are better then the Vallejo ones.


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## kelmar40k (Dec 2, 2010)

WHICH painters? The coverage on their new paint line is non existent. You have to to coat and coat to get a color. 

If you couldn't shade before, GW's new paints aren't going to help you learn but some people may think they are shading just by layering 2 colors.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

kelmar40k said:


> WHICH painters? The coverage on their new paint line is non existent. You have to to coat and coat to get a color.
> 
> If you couldn't shade before, GW's new paints aren't going to help you learn but some people may think they are shading just by layering 2 colors.



Uhuh.... obviously you've not used the new paint line at all and have no clue what your talking about. Nice attempt at trolling there, but your kung-fu is weak.


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## kelmar40k (Dec 2, 2010)

I used Kantor Blue, Altdorf Blue, Calliban and Warboss green. They don't shade as well because the pigment is less. Their transparency, for me, is an issue. 

I don't consider it trolling to have liked their last line better than their new line. I also don't consider it trolling to refute the statement that Vallejo sucks. 

Of course all of this is subjective, so as to gauge YOUR subjectivity on the matter, I asked which painters are enjoying the new paint line. 

Can you tell me? Winterdyne? Blue Table Painting? Various painters via CoolMiniorNot? If not, that's ok but don't offer up anymore straw man arguments and then accuse me of trolling. 

I've had the experience of using them and wanted to know which painters have had better results than mine own.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

GrizBe said:


> Uhuh.... obviously you've not used the new paint line at all and have no clue what your talking about. Nice attempt at trolling there, but your kung-fu is weak.


I'm also interested in knowing which painters have said the new GW paint is better than Vallejo. The only person I know of that has reviewed the paints is Buypainted. He shows some examples on the coverage.







My impression is that GW couldn't do another price rise this year, so instead they changed the entire paintline so retailers would have to buy the whole new set, just in time before the fiscal year report which would show a boost in sales. Afaik all previous price rises has been just before the end of the fiscal year, meaning allot of retailers would buy stock in order to get the lower prices, this in turn shows a higher sale for GW in their fiscal year papers.

I'm curious to see how much sales have dropped in Australia this year, last year was 20% or such, I'm sure this year will show another -20% sales unless paint range sales change this a little.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Well starting with my local store and gaming club and the guys in them who regularly attempt to break Golden Deamon, then generally browsing the painting forums in various places, including cool or not minis... there are alot of people I know who've used Vallejo who say the new GW paints are much better.

I'll also point out my local store manager was featured on the GW blog with his Lysander model some time ago, so he knows how to paint a decent model... yes, I know its his job to talk up GW products, but he's also not the sort to tell you somethings good when its a bunch of crap. He dislikes the new basing paints for instance and tries to steer people from them.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Breaking News - GW says GW paints are the best....


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## kelmar40k (Dec 2, 2010)

GrizBe said:


> Well starting with my local store and gaming club and the guys in them who regularly attempt to break Golden Deamon, then generally browsing the painting forums in various places, including cool or not minis... there are alot of people I know who've used Vallejo who say the new GW paints are much better.
> 
> I'll also point out my local store manager was featured on the GW blog with his Lysander model some time ago, so he knows how to paint a decent model... yes, I know its his job to talk up GW products, but he's also not the sort to tell you somethings good when its a bunch of crap. He dislikes the new basing paints for instance and tries to steer people from them.


So let me get this straight, let's wrap my brain around this. YOU haven't used Vallejo paints and you like GW paints thanks to your GW store manager?

At no time did you say, I have painted with the new line or express WHY you like them or the differences between Vallejo and GW... 

... and you call ME the troll.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Which paint is "better" is ridiculously subjective as to be a pointless discussion really. I use a range of paints from different manufacturers as they all have different strengths and weaknesses.

For the record I do like new GW paints and I think they work better for me than the older ones. I like the thinness of the layers


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

How dare you kelmar40k for having a different opinion than someone else on the internets, for shame!

I'm sad to see this, I just switched to Vallejo paints. :/

To me the bottom line is this; GW's new paints don't match their old paints at all. If you have a half painted army like many players do, tough luck. As the video above shows, while some of the new GW paints are great, many of them (shades) are redundant and poor quality when compared to their predecessors. Why buy 2-3 different colors when I can buy 1 and dilute it for my needs?


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Arcane said:


> Why buy 2-3 different colors when I can buy 1 and dilute it for my needs?


Because kids find that hard to do with GW paints as they dont come in dropper bottles? and it's a great way for GW to trick them into buying paints they dont need? :crazy:


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

To be honest, I know way to many painters that paint from the pot as opposed to a pallet - the GW containers in a lot of ways encourage this.

I have always used a pallet and diluted paint for a better result - GW and other non-brands. After reviewing some (many) youtubes, GameColor / Model Color came highly recommended and the video results certainly backed up the reviews.

thats not to say a very experienced professional painter couldn't perform the same with GW paint. its nice to try something different and learn new skils... currently I plan to learn the art of the wet-blending and will even give oils a go if and when I find them (pending pocket money allowance from the wifie!)

at the end of the day, theres no need to argue paints - arguably art is a subject medium at best - I find it quite ironic that the argument has evolved into pigments and mediums (kinda like arguing the meduim of the medium) ;D


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

The skill of the user will always be the main factor, you can give an inexperienced person photoshop and a pro artist MS Paint, I bet you the pro artist will create something allot better than the inexperienced person.

I've seen street artists work magic with bloody fingerpaint and charcoal...


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

MadCowCrazy said:


> The skill of the user will always be the main factor, you can give an inexperienced person photoshop and a pro artist MS Paint, I bet you the pro artist will create something allot better than the inexperienced person.
> 
> I've seen street artists work magic with bloody fingerpaint and charcoal...


Chaa-ching !

I reckon you got it in one mate. New paints and new formulas just means you have to change your technique to suit or fine paints that suit your old technique. 

That is why I say Vallejo v Citadel v Tamiya v fingerpaints is a pretty much pointless debate.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Vallejo is superior to Citadel paints in every way imaginable. At least, the old paints. I know little about the new ones, but since all my models are done in Vallejo's color range, guess what paint I'm going to continue to use?

Plus, the dropper bottles are excellent for palette painters like myself. Painting straight from the pot is a hassle and unsuitable for higher-level techniques.


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

GrizBe said:


> So they've cranked their prices up to GW levels for what alot of people consider to be an inferior product, what with the new GW paints?
> 
> Smart move guys.


well then... I guess I should just stop using vallejo paints despite my rather positive experience with them...

cuz, you know, you obviously know everything about both paint ranges...


Buuuut I haven't used the new GW paints yet, so I'll withhold my judgment on those for now. I sure hope they're as good as you say they are.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

kelmar40k said:


> So let me get this straight, let's wrap my brain around this. YOU haven't used Vallejo paints and you like GW paints thanks to your GW store manager?
> 
> At no time did you say, I have painted with the new line or express WHY you like them or the differences between Vallejo and GW...
> 
> ... and you call ME the troll.


Learn to read moron.... 

I pointed out Golden Deamon standard painters... I pointed out another painter who has been featured as an outstanding painter who won't push crap onto others.

Also, I did say i've tried the new paints, I pointed out you obviously haven't if your calling the coverage of them poor when the coverage of them is the best I've seen of any paint.

When theres people out there that are proper hobbiests in my gaming club I know personally, and are superior painters to myself, who have used tried both ranges, and they tell me that the new paints are the best ones to use... i'm gonna believe them over some idiot who can't even read a post properly.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Settle down chaps, remember this is PAINT we are talking about, not the Gaza Strip


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

it all boils down to personal preference, For me the dropper bottle is an instant deal breaker, for others its an instant win, for some people price is the deciding factor,for others its easy availability and for others its using GW colours used in there painting articles. 
And most of those things are more important to the average gamer than the degree of pigmentation or the ability to cover black from the pot, fact is the top painters in the world would never limit themselves to one paint range or another any more than any other true artist, i suspect the winners of golden deamon and the crystal brush are using all number of stuff on the chosen models to make them better than the next guy.

Personally i use citadel because i know when i run low im a bus ride/car journey from a place i can buy another pot, i dont have to worry about colour matching or go on a mammoth quest to find an indie who stocks "the flavour of the month paint range" and i know i wont have to put the pot into the tumble dryer to mix the separated paint like i do with vallejo. GW have taken a massive gamble going so far away from the old range but loads of people i know and trust have used the new paints and they have almost all to a man given them the thumbs up, i am awaiting my full set to arrive at the moment and will give them a test drive when they land.
People should make up there own minds, far too many people write GW paint off without ever trying it, I have used and own vallejo paint and its never given me a result i couldnt achieve with Citadel, but it has caused me problems due to the bottle and settled paint giving me inconsistent shade on its reds, but in its favour its air brush range is awesome.


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

GrizBe said:


> Learn to read moron....
> 
> I pointed out Golden Deamon standard painters... I pointed out another painter who has been featured as an outstanding painter who won't push crap onto others.
> 
> ...


1. Have you used Vallejo paints?
2. Have you used the new Citadel paints?

Two answers of "yes" and/or "no" will suffice to answer these questions. Errata, Namecalling and Rustled Jimmies will be disregarded.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Adramalech said:


> 1. Have you used Vallejo paints?
> 2. Have you used the new Citadel paints?
> 
> Two answers of "yes" and/or "no" will suffice to answer these questions. Errata, Namecalling and Rustled Jimmies will be disregarded.


Yes to both questions. Though in Vallejo's case it was some years ago so I'm unaware if they've changed since then. Hence why i'm inclined to believe the painters at my local gaming club who've tried/used them more recently then me.


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

GrizBe said:


> Yes to both questions. Though in Vallejo's case it was some years ago so I'm unaware if they've changed since then. Hence why i'm inclined to believe the painters at my local gaming club who've tried/used them more recently then me.


As I said before, my personal experience with the recent vallejo paints are quite positive, but with the price hike.... idk. I'll probably look into the new citadel paints now :T

Anyway, you may proceed with judging Vallejo. Thank you for taking the time to answer my inquiries.


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## Badbear (May 11, 2012)

Well i sell a large range of paints in our shop. And i also own over 400 diff paints of vellejo and lifecolor and all the new gw paints. and i like all of them as they all react differently when used. i do have a grip with the gw dry metalic paints as mine are way too dry to the stage of unusable. But shit happens as i like the vellejo metals for that.
And ill use a combination of brands on any figure even gw on military modelling too. I will say all my Professional painters that do commision work do use vellejo and oils. also Vellejo paints have more paint in them than gw's do


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

GrizBe said:


> Uhuh.... obviously you've not used the new paint line at all and have no clue what your talking about. Nice attempt at trolling there, but your kung-fu is weak.


You disagree withe me so you must be trolling!

Honestly though, Ive only used the old GW paints. They always worked fine... and ill probably just stick with the new ones just so I dont have to order them from anywhere.


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## kelmar40k (Dec 2, 2010)

GrizBe said:


> So they've cranked their prices up to GW levels for what alot of people consider to be an inferior product, what with the new GW paints?
> 
> Smart move guys.


"@boreas: I did say the NEW GW paints. Alot of painters have said the new ones are better then the Vallejo ones. 
Uhuh.... obviously you've not used the new paint line at all and have no clue what your talking about. Nice attempt at trolling there, but your kung-fu is weak."

"Learn to read moron.... 

I pointed out Golden Deamon standard painters... I pointed out another painter who has been featured as an outstanding painter who won't push crap onto others.

Also, I did say i've tried the new paints, I pointed out you obviously haven't if your calling the coverage of them poor when the coverage of them is the best I've seen of any paint.
"

When theres people out there that are proper hobbiests in my gaming club I know personally, and are superior painters to myself, who have used tried both ranges, and they tell me that the new paints are the best ones to use... i'm gonna believe them over some idiot who can't even read a post properly. 
Games Workshop (the people who have all your money)
Also Games Workshop Stores
"

Grizbe, 

At no time did you point out your sources until I asked. All I did was ask which painters and was called a troll. After pointing out the weakness in your agrument you call me a moron. 

I just have one thing to say.

It will be ok. Let the internet rage go. We just have differing opinions on paints.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

MadCowCrazy said:


> I'm curious to see how much sales have dropped in Australia this year, last year was 20% or such, I'm sure this year will show another -20% sales unless paint range sales change this a little.


no it wasnt, it was 1-2% drop in sales ( £10,795,000 dropped to £10,630,000 last year) the issue was a drop in *profit* because of high costs to run the company down under and people buying cheap imports from EU sellers. Which GW promptly closed the door on and 12 months later Wayland still havent "solved " the ROW mystery. 

Anyway I dont think GW put these paints out to solve any drop in sales, the finacial statements and announcements from the company are "inline" with expectations or doing well, if anything the paint range and stacks of plastic releases and ironically people buying finecast to replace metal will show they know how to run the company and make money doing it.


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## Dusty's Corner (Aug 25, 2008)

Just a quick point about limiting to certain brands. Where I once worked for a big company doing painting, they limit the paint range to just Citadel. This is because when they send the model/toy to China, the painters there need to be able to reference from it using a standardized paint range. They're told what paints were used but they have to work out the ratios themselves. So a lot of toys on the shelf (like action figures type) are painted using Citadel. Not too sure if they still keep to that and what they think of the changes to the paint range. But at the time, I would of been told off if I started using other brands. Generally on a corporation level, they'll stick to a certain range of paint/colours to aviod complicating things.

I quite like Vallejo's paints, so I might need to stock up!


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Another major point for me to stick with Vallejo: I can have Maelstrom Games ship whatever color I want across the world for free... Plus Vallejos (after price hike!) cost me 3.50$ while GW's (new paints) are 4.45$ (for a lesser amount...). I'll definitely will try the new GW paints for the heck of it, but I'd be suprised if the qualoty difference made it worthwhile to drive to and from the nearest dealer (and hope the color I need is in stock!). 

Phil


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## vetsgtnamaan (Feb 19, 2011)

As others have said, with the majority of my models painted using Vallejo's and me having a large stock pile of the colours I use on a daily basis they could triple the price and it would not affect me in the least. I certainly prefer Vallejo and I doubt that will ever change, like most gamers I am a creature of habit and trying to match new paints and a new scheme to existing models is just a waste of time.

As for comparing the two paint lines well I am sure GW switched to the company that now makes both GW and Vallejo paints for a reason.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

boreas said:


> Plus Vallejos (after price hike!) cost me 3.50$ while GW's (new paints) are 4.45$ (for a lesser amount...).


Thing is if you thin GW paint to the same consistency as Vallejo you end up with about half as much again give or take.

Not sure about the new paints yet but with the old when I got a new one I would straight away decant half of it into a new container and then add 6ml of water/retarder to each and double my paint stock. So I'd be getting 24ml for $AU6. 

Vallejo paints for me are $AU5 + about that much again for postage (ok order a few and it is less) so for ME GW v Vallejo is a no brainer. 

Not for everyone tho' of course.



vetsgtnamaan said:


> As for comparing the two paint lines well I am sure GW switched to the company that now makes both GW and Vallejo paints for a reason.


Now that is interesting for sure, who makes them ?


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Magpie_Oz said:


> Thing is if you thin GW paint to the same consistency as Vallejo you end up with about half as much again give or take


Actually, a "fresh" pot of GW paint is thinner than a fresh pot of vallejo, in my experience. I can't say for the new ones, though. No matter what paint I use (66% GW, as I still have lots of colors, 30% Vallejo, as I'm switching, 4% P3, to try them), I still dilute with half the amount again of water and a quarter the amount again of future (acrylic base). For example: 4 drops of paint, 2 drops water, 1 drop future... That might vary from paint to paint (desert yellow, for example is extremely liquid).

Phil


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Hmmm future as a medium, I didn't know you could do that I've only been using it as basically a gloss coat. Must give it a go.


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Also works wonders as a thinner for paint when airbrushing...

Phil


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Is it a retarder as well ?


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Like most medium, yes... Altough I find it makes your paints more shiny if you leave it to the open air for too long. 

Sorry about the threadjacking! Feel free to PM me if you have more questions!

Phil


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## Badbear (May 11, 2012)

i use a combination of 25% blue windex and 75% distilled water for thinning paints for the airbrush and for brush painting and its great. It keeps the paint flowing better


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

Badbear said:


> i use a combination of 25% blue windex and 75% distilled water for thinning paints for the airbrush and for brush painting and its great. It keeps the paint flowing better


Now thats a good tip, I shall try this.

I am curious - and sorry for the OT, but methods do you use to clean your brushes ?


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

I spray pure windex for a few seconds (I use it as cleaner in-between color, although I prefer the Future as the thinner), then full dis-assembly, individual part cleaning (Windsor and Newton brush cleaner), re-assemble. After each and every session. A bit tedious, but less so than a clogged airbrush when I feel like painting.

Phil


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

boreas said:


> I spray pure windex for a few seconds (I use it as cleaner in-between color, although I prefer the Future as the thinner), then full dis-assembly, individual part cleaning (Windsor and Newton brush cleaner), re-assemble. After each and every session. A bit tedious, but less so than a clogged airbrush when I feel like painting.
> 
> Phil


Thanks for the heads up, I am looking at getting an Air-Brush setup, sadly the last time I used one in terms of models was in Art at college - time has massively moved on since then.

Would you have any recommendations (sorry for the OT again guys)

In the mean time, what about cleaning regular paint brushes?


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

I've got an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS. Very good, although not "professionnal" airbrush. With a small compressor (no tank) that's not too loud.

As for cleaning brushes: Windsor and Newton brush cleaner is cheap and cleans really well. Every month or so, I clean all brushes deeply with it. I then use hair conditionner (yes!) to "form" the point on my brushes. When I use them again, after the conditionner, I just rinse them very well. Thus, I keep my brush in good shape for a long time (especially my Da Vincis and Windsor and Newton).


It migh be a good idea to open up a topic about all that, in the modelling and painting section. See you there!

Phil


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

Thanks Phil!

I look forward to the read!


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

I've not found that Windex with ammonia has much of an effect on Citadel paints, am I doing something wrong? 

I use it to strip my Tamiya paints which it rips off with ease but it doesn't touch the Citadel stuff.


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