# what is the best way to equip a lord?



## gdog (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm really into daemon weapons, what are your thoughts


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

my thoughts about demon weapons are that in nearly every instance a sorcerer with warptime is better. Do the math, even if you don't count the chance of rolling a one and doing nothing, you do far more damage on average with the sorcerer. The only time I'd consider it is with a MoS lord with a blissgiver, because striking at I6 with instant kill (that can't be blocked as it's not a psychic power) is good for assassinating enemy characters.

Tzeench, a sorc with warptime and doombolt does better at both shooting and combat and a lord with DW, and is only 10 points more. Nurgle, Sorcerer with warptime or rot, the chance to instant kill with a force weapon makes up for no 4+ to wound.

With Khorn, give him a pair of LCs, he will massacre anything. That said, getting a double 6 on a bloodfeeder would be fun....


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

demona weapons are risky, but if you don't mind rollin the dice then the blissgiver is my fave, followed but the bloodfeeder(with the lord on a juggernaught) and third place goes to the undivided weapon. despite the risk they're worth it for the havoc they can cause.


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## Blood God (Apr 27, 2008)

Well i got one lord with MoS and Pair of Lightning Claws :biggrin:
And i got a lord with Mot and a powerfist. Kinda like a slow but unstoppable hq. 
"Well i got 4+ inv save and a powerfist which might instant kill you but all in good time."


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

A Slaanesh Lord with a Blissgiver is the only set up for a Lord I like with a daemon weapon. Not much else is worth the point value, its better to go with a Sorceror with warptime and any other power you want.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

So far, out of... a few games, my Khorne Lord has only rolled a 1 once on his dice for extra attacks.
And he then rolled a 1 to wound himself lol.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

You don't roll to wound when your daemon weapon tries to eat you - you take your Invulnerable save, and if you fail, you lose a wound.

And as an aside, this really isn't the place for this topic.


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## titan slayer (Jun 21, 2008)

look what i've found out is a chaos lord of khorne with daemon weapon is pretty much unstopable:good: against termies and other heavily armoured enemy's it is also useful against swarms


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## Regwon (Nov 22, 2007)

in all cases for chaos HQs:

demon princes are the best

followed by sorcerers

followed by lords.


but if you must take a lord with a demon weapon:

lord with mark of nurgle with a demon weapon with wings or on a bike.

the nurgle demon weapon is the best for the following reasons:

bissgiver is over kill against characters. d6+3 attacks will kill a character the vast majority of the time, but against anything with T5 or higher it begins to suck.

bloodfeeder has to much chance of killing you. 2d6+3 attacks looks great on paper but if you charge and wipeout an enemy in your turn your going to get shot to peices in your opponents. it is still no good against T5+

death screamer is the 3rd best demon weapon. it kills MEQs like a hot knife through butter but if you really want to do that get some thousand sons. they kill more MEQs and last longer. it is still no good against T5+

the undivided demon weapon is the 2nd best because the +1S is good. 

plaguebringer kills characters because of the sheer number of attacks it gets but it also kills monstrous creatures because it wounds them on a 4+. if a lord with any other demon weapon (appart from the undivided) get stuck in combat with a wraithlord (likely to see a lot more of those in 5th) you will lose, admittedly slowly but you will lose. against nidzilla you can only really hurt all those MCs through luck without the plaguebringer.

even so, i would still suggest taking a demon prince.


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## hayzo (May 23, 2008)

Take the daemon weapon, just for the fluff!
besides, you never know, your oppnonent could go all out with farseers and runes of warding.
Deamon princes without wings slightly smell..


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## general (Feb 1, 2008)

MoK and bloodfeeder. A max of 16 attacks on the charge is not to be sniffed at. And you will average around 7 on 2d6.
Its a risk, but I reckon worth it. Had one in a game today. Wiped out half a squad of boyz without taking a wound (and he didn't charge!).
If I was in a competitive game, maybe jump pack and pair of lightning claws. But I would probrably prefer the possible destructive power of DW.

A lot of people are saying DP. Yes they're good. In the same game my DP took out several vehicles, and an ork warboss. But they get shot. A lot.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Inquisitor Aurelius said:


> You don't roll to wound when your daemon weapon tries to eat you - you take your Invulnerable save, and if you fail, you lose a wound.
> 
> And as an aside, this really isn't the place for this topic.



It wasn't always thus...


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## Hashulaman (Apr 9, 2008)

I have a terminator lord with combi melta, and Daemon weapon.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

general said:


> MoK and bloodfeeder. A max of 16 attacks on the charge is not to be sniffed at.


Seventeen, actually, or eighteen if your Lord happens to ride a Juggernaut. And pay no attention to these unbelievers; DWs are great. I like the Undivided and Slaaneshi versions myself. Bloodfeeders are killier, but there's also a one in three chance that they'll turn on you, which is not so great. Daemon weapons in general are not for the risk-averse, but even so, I prefer to play the odds. Plus, the Blissgiver (or what's functionally equivalent to one) meshes far better with my fluff, which, as I see it, is paramount.

And Regwon, with all due respect, is just plain wrong. D6+3 (which averages 6.5) won't kill a character the vast majority of the time. Against a Space Marine commander, you're hitting on 3s, which means 4.333~ hits, wounding on 4s, so that's 2.1666~ wounds, and he's probably got (if you're lucky) Terminator armour, which means he'll be saving 1/3 of the wounds, and you're left with 1.444~ wounds, or thereabouts. Even if you optimistically round up, that's still only two wounds, which means he lives long enough to smack you five times with his power fist, and it's goodbye Mr. Chaos Lord, sir. However, with the Blissgiver, he's dead before he can touch you. 

Similarly, while you'll do some damage to a TMC with the Plaguebringer, the odds are very low that you'll actually manage to snuff the thing, and if it happens to be a 'Fex, you're dead again. Whereas with the Blissgiver, should you happen to luck out and pull a 6 to wound (as indeed I just did in a practical test, so clearly it's not that uncommon), you can jump for joy as the big ugly gribbly goes down for the count. The Plaguebringer's better against anything with T8 or higher, and that's about it.

So, yes. Buy a daemon weapon. Cut a bloody swathe through your enemies. Lose your Lord to the occasional bad roll at an inopportune moment. It's still better than consistently having your DP blasted out of the sky by concentrated Lascannon fire. And anyway, it's all in good fun.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

you see i agree with general as daemon princes eem to draw more attention to them than termianotr lords with daemons plus they can cost the same and more than a lord and also terminator lords even with dw can still join squads and be partially protected in them unlike daemon p's so i prefer t lords with dw and my prefernece is khorne


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## akiasura (Jun 13, 2008)

In 5th, won't Blissgiver be pretty much useless? Against anything scary enough to warrant a Insta Kill weapon (IE, Deamon Princes and other Monstourous creatures), we find said weapon being completely worthless.
Deamonprinces-Eternal Warrior. No Insta Killy
Tyranid Monstourous Creatures-No insta Kill. T 5/6 on most scary things makes them unreliable weapons.
WraithLord-T8. Good luck with that. I wouldn't risk being one-shotted with those odds.

Really, we only see blissgiver come into power against orks. Orks have Nobz (2W) and Warbosses that are scary as hell, yet die pretty quickly to blissgiver. Heck, a Lord with Blissgiver could wipe a squad of Nobz on his own! That's more then 200 points, probably closer to 300, gained! But against another opponent? I'll take the Undivided, or Nurgle one.
Especially the Nurgle one if it counts as a posioned weapon!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Er, this should be in Tactics.

Thread moved.


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## darklancer59 (Jun 16, 2008)

XDXD well if u ask me and ive seen it b4...a chaos lord with term armour, the chaos iron halo....power wep...and it was litterally a tea bag....shot with 6 tau rail cannons, 4 of my bright lances, 5 las cannons, heavy bolters........shit loads of bolters tau fire warrior squads (full squads of 3) , ion cannon, las cannons, shuriken catipults!!!!!! it still didnt die and out lasted 3 tuns by himself (cause it was a 5 on 5 apocolypse game and the chaos army was whiped except for the lord and we were like....*gob smacked* just die tea bag lord just die!! so i recomend u all the stuff i said


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## hurt-wm (Jun 8, 2008)

blissgiver eats space marines...but only commanders. What to equip a lord with is heavily dependant on what role he will play.if you want him to get stuck In to big combats , give him termie armor and good cc weapons, like the khorne daemon weapon (lightning claws? Don't know if that's legal...) If you want him to kill HQs, give him the mark of slaanesh and blissgiver. Lords are very versatile.


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## chaos vince (Jun 10, 2008)

lightning claws are a legal choice for a chaos lord but thery're almost as many points as the daemon weapon and the d weapon has the potential to give your t lord between 11 and 17 attacks on the charge depending on the d weap. . all of them have their uses, the slaaneshii one is awesome against char. heavy armies like space puppies and orks(lots of multi wound models) fighting things like wraith lords and fex's in cc isn't a good idea in general anyway. having an i6 lord in cc against most characters that insta kills and ignores armor though, now thats nice.


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

For blissgiver vs big things, bliss giver does not instant kill through toughness, it just does, and as far as i know and judging on previous things that protect from instant death, it only protects from instant death dealt by 2xS over T, not from force weaps and in that way a bliss giver that acts much like a force weapon w/o having to take the test, its possible i need to look at how bliss giver applies again :laugh:

Edit: Reread the post, they're probably changing it in 5th right? :laugh:


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

Unless TMCs are granted special immunity to Instant Death in 5th, the Blissgiver will still work against them. It says specifically that it inflicts Instant Death regardless of Toughness. Now, you still can't wound a T8 model, so it's useless there, and likewise it won't function against anything with the (much despised) Eternal Warrior USR, but if you're trying to take down a Tyrant, you just might have a shot.

[EDIT: Bugger. Forgot about Synapse. Bastard space-roaches. Ah well. It'll still work on a 'Fex if you're lucky. Unless I forgot something else.]


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Urm... as far as i know blissgiver like force weapons bypass synapse and eternal warrior since those protect from ID from things that have S = 2xT not from weapons that bypass toughness, am i confusing myself again? :laugh:


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

Tyranids within sypnapse range are; "Inmmune to the effects of instant death caused by a weapon with a strength double the creatures toughness." Word-for-word out of the codex.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

SO from what I got on this slaanesh have a high int. extra atacks, khorne have a load! of extra attacks, nurgle wound on a 4+, undivided raises strength so what does the tzeentch one do? 


And thing is with instant death and force weapons if I'm getting this right people think force weapons cause instant death? If that's not what people are saying my apologies but if they are here goes. Force weapons do NOT inflict instant death. they kill outright which means all the remaining wounds are taken off the model. All the instant death rules do not apply to force weapons as they act differently. It is very different rules wise
If people were not going on about that sorry for rambling =)


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## Hashulaman (Apr 9, 2008)

GW cleared that little issue. In 5th, Force weapons will cause instant death upon a sucessful pyskik test


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

I tend to go for lords without a mark, +1 S and +D6 attacks is handy!

In termie armour and with a combi-melta (because for 5pts, who wouldnt?)


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## hurt-wm (Jun 8, 2008)

true. blissgiver init 6 is crazy, its almost unfair. there really isnt a drawback, like powerfists going last. except that it cant knock over tanks.


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## Imperial Dragon (Dec 22, 2007)

a lord with a daemon weapon and jump pack without mark seems like a strong cheap choice.

I've also seen once in my life and it looked really cool was a chaos Lord with mark of Tzeentch with daamon weapon (death Screamer) and Daemonic steed and i think he had meltabombs cause he took down a rhino.

Edit: even though it doesn't cause ID like the blissgiver wouldn't the plaguebringer be a good weapon vs fexs?


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## LegendX (Jun 16, 2008)

"best" is situational of course.

Blissgiver is a great choice for character killing, however with a good number of mainstream units being immune to instant death, you run the risk of losing some of its efficiency. (mind you the nid army is immune if in synapse range as someone noted before).

I tend to lean towards the bloodfeeder, although the weapon has a higher chance to fail you and cause you to take that horrible inv save...the other side of the fence (possible 17 attacks on the charge) is extremely worth running the risk. 
Lack of +S hurts with any of the daemon weapons unfortunately, which makes NOT choosing a marked lord a viable option.

LX


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## hurt-wm (Jun 8, 2008)

not all that many things are immune to ID now unless im missing something, just DP's, nids in synapse, adamantine mantles, a few others. the plaguesword would be good foe fex's and wratihlords, 4+ to wound is nothing to spit at.


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## LegendX (Jun 16, 2008)

hurt-wm said:


> not all that many things are immune to ID now unless im missing something, just DP's, nids in synapse, adamantine mantles, a few others. the plaguesword would be good foe fex's and wratihlords, 4+ to wound is nothing to spit at.


Problem, what is that if you're facing something that you would wound on 2 or 3+.

Not worth it, especially for a unit that is so anti-infantry.

LX


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## necroman (Jun 13, 2008)

would have to go with blessgiver
the nids are not immune to instant death from it, because its not a double strength weapon as it says in the codex, unless im missing something
plus ini 6 owns chaplains and other characters. 

the plague sword is just as effective, if not more so than taking out toughness 4 or lower, in 5th edition poison rules, did any1 check them out, how cool. but really hard to kill tough 5 or more guys, with an avg of about 1.44 wounds, where with the bless all u need is one wound, which isnt that hard to do. plus beating a tyrant in combat and outright killing it on first turn charge, is something i wanna see.


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## Initiate (Mar 25, 2007)

My favourite would be a daemon weapon, mark of khorne, personal icon, terminator armour and combi flamer. I got pwned by someone using that. Personal icon means you can have lesser daemons DS right next to you, mark of khorne gives you more attacks, termi armour protects you better, combi flamer can be useful for getting rid of that pesky last squad, and daemon weapons are already awesome.


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## Imperial Dragon (Dec 22, 2007)

nope not missing a thing with the nids atleast i don't think you are. The problem is vsing tyrants fex's and most other MC there T5 or better so your only wounding on 5 and 6+ which isn't that good so you have to get the wound to kill the model.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

But with an average of 6.5 attacks, hitting on (what's a Tyrant's WS? Less than six, I think) 3s, you hit with about four attacks, about one of which gets the five to wound, and presto! Dead Tyrant, at least until the wording is changed when they redo the Codex. Against a T6 opponent, you'll statistically lose more often than not, but still, all it takes is a little luck.


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## LegendX (Jun 16, 2008)

necroman said:


> would have to go with blessgiver
> the nids are not immune to instant death from it, because its not a double strength weapon as it says in the codex, unless im missing something
> plus ini 6 owns chaplains and other characters.
> 
> the plague sword is just as effective, if not more so than taking out toughness 4 or lower, in 5th edition poison rules, did any1 check them out, how cool. but really hard to kill tough 5 or more guys, with an avg of about 1.44 wounds, where with the bless all u need is one wound, which isnt that hard to do. plus beating a tyrant in combat and outright killing it on first turn charge, is something i wanna see.


Synapse defends against any form of instant death. Thats just the common description for the instant death rule to take into effect, which is why its in the codex.

How is it easier to kill a T2 compared to a T7 if you wound on 4+ for both?

LX


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