# Chaos Marauder Horseman



## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

I just picked up my first box of fantasy - getting the Marauder Horseman as their will definitely be used in my WoC army, and they were the cheapest money wise 

I don't have an army book yet, but from what I've read, its best to give them the MoK and spears as WoC tend not to have much ranged attacks. I plan to have 10 of them, 5 with spears, and a full command.

What does a full command consists of? A musician, a standard bearer, and what else should I have? Haha, I should probobly pick up an army book asap, but I'm in the process of building the command for my unit and have no idea what to arm them with gear-wise haha.

Thanks for any feedback/advice!

Cheers


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Full command is a banner, musician and a champion... if you are using units of 5 then I wouldn't bother with more then the musician. I dont know why anyone would take units of 10+ but if you do thats when the baner/champ might become more important.

As for weapons, I think I would give them spears and throwing axes, though I seem to remember flails are an option, and if so thats fairly nice (though it depends on how many points they are)... basically you need the book to see the costs, know what role you want them to do (they wont be frontline, but can quickly flank the enemy and kill small units/warmachines) and how expensive you're willing for them to be (I would tend to try to keep them cheap).


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Awesome thanks, yeah I decided it would be dumb to buy anything else without first having an army book, ordered one online and it should be here by Tuesday. I will have to check out how many uits have the option of ranged attack, while flails may be nice, I'm thinking spears/throwing axes would be best if most units lack the ability to have ranged attacks. 

So I shouldn't take a 10-man unit of marauder horseman? Like I said, completely new to fantasy, and I haven't been able to find a good 2,500 point list (that fits what I want to do - Khorne heavy)


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

Most of the chaos armies I face just use mok and flail in 5 man groups as handgrenade units( they ride up and go off causing maximum damage then they're done)
If you want a command then as said standard, musician are easy to represent champions either arm them differently to show they're there and try to use the most impressive head so they stand out.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

How effective were they when you played against them used with flails and MoK?


Nevermind, fuck the flails, none of the arms will match up, and I got frustrated and threw all the flails in the garbage...haha. Decided to run spears and throwing axes with a musician and a champion, going to have 2X5 Marauders instead of 1x10 with full command.


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## Anarkitty (Jul 29, 2008)

Other than the Hellcannon, Marauder Horsemen are the only unit in WoC that have any ranged attacks at all (unless you count breath weapons, which are pretty rare). I like to give them light armor and throwing axes or throwing spears and use them as harrying units in my Slaanesh army.

If you're going Khorne, Flails are your best bet, or light armor+shield+spears, but not throwing spears or axes. With Frenzy, you won't get to shoot very often, and don't get most of the benefits of Light Cavalry anyway. Also the Champion's extra attack is really not worth the points when you are already getting the extra attacks for the Frenzy.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Alright, I'll go with the spears and sheilds then, the flails got to frusterating to build lol.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I always found the ranged attack potential the marauder horsemen have to be sort of a moot point. They're pretty much it in the army, and they're not particularly good-- why bother trying to make up for a weakness when you can play further to the army's strengths? 

With that in mind, I like flails on marauder horsemen. Doesn't matter what mark they have-- they're cheap, they're quick, and they're WS4 and S5. They're great for sticking a big horde in the flank so your Warriors can break through and move on to the next target. Really, it's the only way I like running Marauders-- while Marauders on foot are a great buy, I've found they still end up outclassed by other light infantry just because you can't get as many in base due to their 25mm base size. If they were on 20mm bases, they'd be a lot better, I think. Since they're on the same base size as Warriors, and one Warrior is more than three times better than three marauders (which cost the same when armed with a flail, great weapon, etc), I've found I just get a lot more mileage out of units of 14-19 Warriors lead by a hero instead of the gigantic mobs of northmen.

Anyway, the Marauders can also go hunt down wizards and war machines the way warhounds used to be able to. Five Warhounds aren't an effective screen or quick hunting unit the way they used to be, but you still need something to go deal with bolt throwers and cannons as fast as possible. The horsemen can do that and then turn back around and continue to support the rest of the army, where a sufficient unit of warhounds gets depleted doing the same thing.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Would it be a mistake to run multiple squads of 5 Marauder Horseman instead of Marauders themselves? Save 4 or 5 squads of Marauder Horseman to tie up units and keep the ranged attacks off my Warriors, some with flails and MoK for mobs, others with weapons to go hunting?


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Angelus Censura said:


> Would it be a mistake to run multiple squads of 5 Marauder Horseman instead of Marauders themselves? Save 4 or 5 squads of Marauder Horseman to tie up units and keep the ranged attacks off my Warriors, some with flails and MoK for mobs, others with weapons to go hunting?


In my experience 5-model Marauder Horsemen units are too fragile to keep an enemy unit tied up for more than one turn of CC. Although they often strike first thy do not kill enough models to avoid getting pasted by two ranks of return attacks. If your opponent's ranged units are small enough (or deployed thinly enough) not to have a second rank after you hit then they might do better.

I usually give MH throwing weapons but have never used them unless a Vanguard move gets me end on to the enemy lines and I have first turn; otherwise they do more damage in CC than at range.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Marauder horsemen will cause a hole if they hit something... but they aren't going to take out block units, or even live if anything targets them.

What they are good for is keeping the 'flies' off your warrior units: those fast units that can just outmanouver your warriors can suddenly get their heads caved in my horsemen.

Throwing axes will rarely do very much, but occasionally they can be very nasty- I remember a unit of my glade riders being mostly killed off by a lucky round of shooting by marauder axes... but since I had 3 units of galde riders to the 1 of marauders they were soon toast and my advance continued.
Thats the problem with marauder horsemen- WoC aren't ever going to bother putting much points into the flanking units... while other armies do, which often means they'll get their arses handed to them. Then again my friend plays a WoC army without any flank support... I can just surround him at will.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

So an even trade off would be a unit of normal Marauders and 2 Marauder Horseman units for both sides of the board to do the flanking maneuvers, while the Marauders attract the brunt of the ranged attacks and act as a first wave to weaken block units for my Warriors. 

I think I may be spending way too much time on figuring out this one unit haha, may be better to just get what I think look cool and rely on strategy vs how good certain units are at what lol. I need to experiment a little with some game play


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I would grab a unit of 5 horsemen with spears and axes, play a few games with it. If you like them get another, if you dont care about shooting lose the axes, if you want more combat power upgrade to flails and/or MoK, if you have trouble breaking all the time then take MoS.

Marauder units split a lot of WoC players- they are a way to get a lot of potential on the board for cheap, but they die fast and find it hard to win fights.If I was a WoC player I think I would use them as flank guards beside my warriors, either as a hoard (10*4-5) to be able to beat enemies, or just a unit of ~20 to worry the enemy a bit and flank anything that looks like it could take on the warriors.


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## itsonlyme (Aug 22, 2008)

I think in most cases you are just as well to use chaos hounds as to use marauder horsemen, marauders horsemen are still a pretty handy but considering the points of a unit of hounds you get 3 times as many (so usually 3 units). They can still warmachine hunt, they can still guard flanks and they can still act as redirectors. 

I have tried marauder horsemen with flails and MoK in units of 10 with some success and have also tried them with MoN, the MoN unit actually surivives the game!


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Hmm, definitely something to think about then


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

woah there.

Yes, hounds are MUCH cheaper, but you're missing out on a lot.
That's on the same lines of me saying 'yeah, Chaos warriors are ok, but you can get 4 marauders for every one Chaos Warrior!'.

Hounds are fast, have swift-stride and cheap. That's it.
Marauder horsemen are fast, can re-roll pursue and chase down rolls WITH swift-stride, have access to Marks, weapons and throwing weapons, and have an armor save that can be brought up to 4+ (sacrificing the fast cav/ van.). Not only that, but they're fast cav and vanguard and can deploy much more forward than hounds.

Yes, hounds are cheaper. Yes maruader horsemen may not live through the game, but that's almost a given with MSU horsemen. With big blocks, you can break ranks and even give LOS to a lord/hero mounted. 

Horsemen CAN kill most things, but die; a glass cannon. 
Hounds have slim chances of killing much, but are cheap.

It's comparing apples to oranges.
for warmachine hunting? Maybe hounds MIGHT be better, but they are not a universal solution for WoC problems. Marauder horsemen are good, spectacular if used right. 

plus their models are gorgeous.
Hope that helps.


*edit: forgot to add, hounds can LOSE fights for you on CR alone. Easy kills for many troops above slave levels. They'll kill them rather than try to dent your monster CC units....thus tying or even winning the fight. Horsemen give a mean option.


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## itsonlyme (Aug 22, 2008)

While marauders are great when you start adding in marks, weapon options your units become very expensive very quickly, a unit of 10 marauders with MoK/MoN can easily come in add 200-210pts. Sure hounds won't win many combats but that is not what they are required to do, especially at 30pts a unit. Still they do not really struggle against warmachine crew with WS4 and the +1 on the charge, most crew will only do 0.75wounds a turn while the hounds will do 1.66 against WS3 T3 and 1.1 against WS3 T4 targets and 0.83 vs WS4 T4 targets. 

If a unit of hounds fails to break a crew on the charge is really doesn't matter as it has prevented it from firing and they still have a fair chance of finishing off the crew in a 2nd round of combat.

for roughly the same points as a unit of 10 marauders with a mark and upgrades you can actually take a unit of 3 dragon with additional hand weapons. This unit will have the damage out as a unit of Khorne marauders with flails against infantry and WB, higher T, same or better save, cause fear and be able to go into a 1 wide formation and still aim 7-8 attacks at a single model (perfect for wizard hunting) while taking far less attacks in return. Certainly horsemen are core but with Marauder infantry and chaos warriors being so good this edition who ever struggles to fill the core?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

itsonlyme said:


> While marauders are great when you start adding in marks, weapon options your units become very expensive very quickly, a unit of 10 marauders with MoK/MoN can easily come in add 200-210pts.


Define easy. 10*7+25+30 = 125pts.



> Sure hounds won't win many combats but that is not what they are required to do, especially at 30pts a unit. Still they do not really struggle against warmachine crew with WS4 and the +1 on the charge, most crew will only do 0.75wounds a turn while the hounds will do 1.66 against WS3 T3 and 1.1 against WS3 T4 targets and 0.83 vs WS4 T4 targets.


True. Also the strengthin warhounds is actually of no use in battle - but rather in deployment. For 60pts, you can force your opponent to pop down one or two units to foce his hand - useful when Chaos Armies typically number 3-5 slow moving hard to maneuvre infantry.



> If a unit of hounds fails to break a crew on the charge is really doesn't matter as it has prevented it from firing and they still have a fair chance of finishing off the crew in a 2nd round of combat.


I was also going to state that they don't need to kill; only to stop firing.



> for roughly the same points as a unit of 10 marauders with a mark and upgrades you can actually take a unit of 3 dragon with additional hand weapons. This unit will have the damage out as a unit of Khorne marauders with flails against infantry and WB, higher T, same or better save, cause fear and be able to go into a 1 wide formation and still aim 7-8 attacks at a single model (perfect for wizard hunting) while taking far less attacks in return. Certainly horsemen are core but with Marauder infantry and chaos warriors being so good this edition who ever struggles to fill the core?


Unless I'm mistaken. you need to be 6 wide with Monstrous Infantry to claim Horde. Going one wide will net you less attacks than going 2x2, the benefit being that you'll be in contact with 2 less bases. However, I think 6 Additional Attacks outweighs the negatives.

But yes - Dragon Ogres I find are a must have now - Taking Great Weapons, they are the one unit in the army which is a dedicated armour hunter - good if the opponent takes Blood Knights, Questing Knights (despite the 5+ Ward), or Knightly Orders - them being the only really decent Cavalry around, excluding Monstrous ones. They also suffer from being Special in a list overloaded with specials.


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## itsonlyme (Aug 22, 2008)

Vaz said:


> Define easy. 10*7+25+30 = 125pts.


I was talking about marauder horsemen 



> True. Also the strengthin warhounds is actually of no use in battle - but rather in deployment. For 60pts, you can force your opponent to pop down one or two units to foce his hand - useful when Chaos Armies typically number 3-5 slow moving hard to maneuvre infantry.


This is not entirely true, I agree that one of great things about them is force your opponent to deploy 2-3 units (which you can stretch with a shrine and hellcannon anyways). They have also make for good walking cover, you either have to shoot the 30pts unit or take a -1, you can use them to protect flanks from counter chargers with the correct position and angel, if a unit attempts to charge them and overrun more often then not if position correct they will miss your unit. Hell if you really want you want you can use them to give you opponenent a speed bump to get to you quicker (not very often admittedly) or you can use them to march right up to units and hold them in position. Very often a enemy unit will charge and kill them but after doing so reform, if you like a 1" away they wont have moved far at all. This can either result in a halted battle line or certain units getting left behind. I think because of the low points of the unit you can use them in so many ways and really not care what happens to them.



> I was also going to state that they don't need to kill; only to stop firing.


Yeah its a great one against the right army, done it to dwarfs a few times, kept the cannons from firing long enough for the rest of my army to reach combat. Its just a added bonus if they kill the unit they charged!



> Unless I'm mistaken. you need to be 6 wide with Monstrous Infantry to claim Horde. Going one wide will net you less attacks than going 2x2, the benefit being that you'll be in contact with 2 less bases. However, I think 6 Additional Attacks outweighs the negatives.



No you are not, I made no comment about horde, it really depends who you are playing against and the unit you engage, you go 1 wide if you feel you are going to lose a model (this is on a unit a 3). what this means is that at most someone can get 3 models into b2b combat with your dragon ogres. It also means you have to lose 8 wounds before attacks are lost against the single point you have chosen (say a sorcerer or BSB). Say if you playing DE and they have a lvl4 hidden in a unit of spearmen, if you went 2 wide they could attack you with 18 attacks, now with the unit of 3 if you lost that back model (I talking about 3 because my list couldn't fit another guy  ) you would only be able to aim 5 attacks (with additional hand weapons) at that single model. It doesn't matter if you Dragon ogres lose combat, once they have killed that sorcerer you have just dramatically shifted the balance of the game anyways. Chances are its no lore of shadow to worry about casting mindrazor with how ever many dice they feel like on a unit of black guard while in combat with your 600pts unit of chaos warriors/knights (not to forget all those debuff spells  ).


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

I have generally built my horsemen with flails and run them as fast cav to bait and flee and guard flanks. With flails they at least kill stuff when charging into a flank of a unit already in combat with another unit or skirmishers, small screening units, and other fast cav. They can potentially help take out salamanders with the +2S of the flails. I have only occasionally given them throwing weapons when used solely as fast cav for bait and flee but find that the lower LD of WoC troops and lack of assurance of having the BSB nearby by the rallying unit makes bait and flee a hit or miss tactic relative to say dark riders in a DE army. They are good for charging and running down things like skirmishers (chameleons) and other fast cav and depleted or fleeing troops later in the game for VPs and to tear away units (especially poisoned shooting skirmishers, fast cav with shooting,) that can march and shoot and harass (pick off slowly) the main blocks of troops. I've not liked this unit as much in 8th edition, but view it as a necessary evil to protect flanks and rear from scouts and skirmishers. I have also viewed this unit often as primarily a means to provide a look out sir bubble around characters (given that chaos knights are so much more expensive) such as an exalted hero and/or lord with MoT on a disc (character on disc is a cav troop tye,so gives look out sirs; for flying out of the unit and going after solo characters and monsters and monstrous beasts, war machines, skirmishers or tying something I want to hold up with a lord on disc with max protections of 1+ AS and 3+ ward and crown of command), BSB on barded steed (for max AS and re-roll AS and to allow the BSB to run near units that need his re-roll buff), or a lvl 4 or lvl 2 sorceror mounted or disc or barded steed for (max AS) with third eye and MoT (maybe put bloodcurdling roar on something, which can average one wound a run with no AS against high AS units, for its cost, one killed heavy cav model pays for the item) to get it in close enough to steal spells and do a lot of damage with magic. The idea is to give the unit the cheaper mark of slaanesh so the unit does not panic and flee and use it to transport the characters to where they need to be and then continue to fulfill that role or, if the characters fly out or march out, later fulfill the role of fast cav to charge and break something already in combat on the flank or rear or run down some fleeing units before they can rally or units so depleted that the unit can safely kill them. In that role, the unit is cheap enough to do its job. If the opponent has any decent shooting or magic attacks the unit gets shot up too easily, especially if kept as fast cav (which is really needed to save it from giving up VPs late in the game), 

BTW, with true line of sight, I find hounds (absent Throgg) in 8th edition to be a waste absent preventing a MoK unit from prematurely charging. They are to low to even provide hard cover for cav or monstrous infantry and maybe have a role screening a MoK warrior or chosen block initially to prevent those unit from having to charge if they fail a LD test. They may be cheap but they don't do anything worth their points in my experience.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Personally I would run both a couple units of warhounds and a unit of marauder horsemen with flails and axes (probably no mark though). The way I see them they both have similar, but different roles: the horsemen are to batter through irritating units, be they flankers, warmachines or to just smash into the flank of a ranked unit and do some damage. The hounds are a disposible unit; sure they can still go hunt/tie up warmachines but their main use is that they're fast and cheap. Deploy them first and you can change your plan and move them back into position mid set-up but better then that is their use in game- use them to slow up enemy units or redirect them. String your doggies out in front of an important enemy unit at an angle and they'll have very little choice but to charge you... then you flee. If you get away then you've lost nothing (assuming you can rally again), and if you dont you've given away 30VP to expose an enemy to a flank charge or pulled an enemy unit out of position for a couple turns.

I've done this with much more expensive units before and its still worked for me- I was playing a beardy VC army with a huge unit of bloodknights with 2 vamps and a wight king BSB (one of the vamps had the sword that raises back up dead models each time it wounds). My ogres couldnt compete with it so I used my yhetees to draw the unit off- by the end of the game I had lost a unit of yhetees and a couple of leadbelchers (I almost never take these guys, I hate them) to the uber unit but had anhiliated everything else the VC player had on the board.
Picture a bullfighter twirling past the bull... then slaughtering its family


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## Anarkitty (Jul 29, 2008)

I find it worth the points to give throwing spears or axes, as a unit of 5 only costs 5-10 points for the ranged attaks. It's not a big investment, and it's nice to have the option, even if you only use them once in a while. 
It can be a nasty surprise, especially to smaller units set up behind some sort of defence like a river or the like that don't expect Chaos to have any shooting. Or to harry units that are too big to assault alone while you dance around their flanks waiting for the infantry to catch up. It only takes one or two kills for spears to pay for themselves.


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## itsonlyme (Aug 22, 2008)

Yeah I have actually tried the two smaller unit of marauder horsemen and I found with how the games works the same old tactics of marching up, redirecting charges does not work, in order to redirect a unit you must be willing to lose a unit. Even a unit if 5 guys is still close on 90pts! I think the unit f 10 with a mark has been the most successful unit because it actually has the damage output to do enough damage to a unit and enough wounds to last a game and retain its points even if its just a single unit (MoN is best). 

Most of the units that are to big to assault by themslves are not going to be helped by a unit in the flank, its really units like horde savage orcs which just have so many attacks, charging in the flank with marauders will just away more VP's. Those units really need to be weakened before they reach combat either through magic or shooting.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I wasn't saying to deriect charges with horsemen- thats what the dogs are for. If I was using dogs I would be happy to just put them 1" in front of the enemy unit- letting the enemy either charge of sidestep (whick of course means I block them next turn). 
....oooooo
x...oooooo ____ Do something like this (ooo are enemy unit xxx are dogs)
..x.oooooo ____ If you get it right you can block the enemy from wheeling and marching
....x.... _______ past, so they have to charge you, but your flee move will take them
......x..... _____ off in the wrong direction. It can remove a powerful unit from the game for a while or just give you an advantage in an even fight: though the enemy would obviously flee, which is why other units of dogs/horsemen would be useful to have around behind the enemy. In fact if nothing else I would take dogs for that- messing around behind the enemy doing nothing so they can pounce if they flee your combat units.

Horsemen are far too expensive to do this sort of thing with the same abandon. While I'm perfectly willing to lose a cheap unit like hounds horseme could actually make an impact on the end game VP count (although depending on the course of my battles I am willing to make such sacrifices, but I wont plan to). This means I'll still lure people into charging them, but normally onyl from a distance of 6"+ so that I can reliably escape.
.........x


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