# Which Primarchs were closest friends?



## DeathGuardGarro (Nov 8, 2010)

Please list what Primarchs were closest with whom?
EXAMPLE: Horus and Sanguinius.


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## Epidemius (Nov 15, 2010)

I believe that Horus was Mortarion's closest friend


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Horus and Fulgrim had a good bond, but the latter and Ferrus Manus are explicitly states as being like brothers.

I also like to think that Guilliman, Alpharius, and Lorgar had a great thing going on before Roboute got married to the Codex...


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> I also like to think that Guilliman, Alpharius, and Lorgar had a great thing going on before Roboute got married to the Codex...


Not sure about Alpharius, but Guilliman was quite put off by Lorgar's fanatical insistence that the Emperor was a god.

I think Rogal Dorn and whoever else was on his awesome level would be good friends.


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## zerachiel76 (Feb 12, 2010)

In IA it says Fulgrim and Night Haunter were reasonably close as Fulgrim taught NH. It also says Mortarion and Night Haunter were quite close as well.

I don't know but from their common interest in technology I'd hazard a guess that Perturabo, Ferrus Manus and Vulkan could be friendly

The Khan and Leman Russ were friends I think as it's written in the Visions.

I don't think The Lion, Alpharius or Angron had any friends (except Horus who seemed to get on with everyone).

From the First Heretic it seems that Magnus and Lorgar were friends too.

Not sure about Guilliman or Sanguinius.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Horus & Sanguinius
Ferrus Manus & Fulgrim
Leman Russ & Lion El'Jonson

Those 3 are the pairings of brothers who we know were good friends, there's undoubtedly more but those 3 are the ones specifically pointed out in the background material.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Davidicus 40k said:


> Not sure about Alpharius, but Guilliman was quite put off by Lorgar's fanatical insistence that the Emperor was a god.
> 
> I think Rogal Dorn and whoever else was on his awesome level would be good friends.


Think you missed the irony in that post ^^

Bah, Baron beat me to the rest. They are the closest ones, with the addition of Fulgrin being very close to Horus aswell, Dorn was another close brother of Horus. But the three Baron listed are the strongest thus far


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

horus/Sanguinius
fulgrim/ferrus
Corax/dorn i think


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> Leman Russ & Lion El'Jonson
> 
> Those 3 are the pairings of brothers who we know were good friends, there's undoubtedly more but those 3 are the ones specifically pointed out in the background material.


Really? Russ and the Lion? I always thought that they were more like rivals than friends or brothers. Of course, that happened after the events that led to their famous confrontation, so it is possible that they could have close prior to that.



Davidicus 40k said:


> Not sure about Alpharius, but Guilliman was quite put off by Lorgar's fanatical insistence that the Emperor was a god.


You realize that he was joking right?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Akatsuki13 said:


> Really? Russ and the Lion? I always thought that they were more like rivals than friends or brothers. Of course, that happened after the events that led to their famous confrontation, so it is possible that they could have close prior to that.


Actually they become extremely close friends *after *their confrontation, their Chapters may not see eye-to-eye but the 2 Primarchs themselves grew close.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

I think Dorn and horus, Dorn flipped when he was told of Horus's betrayal and refused to believe it.


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## DeathGuardGarro (Nov 8, 2010)

Russ, Lion, Farrus Manus, Khan, seem to be the GOOD CHILDS who abide by everything the Emperor says.

Mortorion, Lorgar, Angron and Night Haunter seemed to be the Disturbed Bunch

Sanguinuss, Horus, Fulgrim, Dorn, and Guilliman. Seem to Be a Leader or Big brother Group

Corax, Alpharius, Vulkan, seemed to Be the younglings

Then Magnus? Idk where to put him


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## High Marshall Mendark (Jan 25, 2009)

I'd say Alpharius and Omegon


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## CJay (Aug 25, 2010)

Id like to say that Corax and Guilliman were close. Their chapters seem to naturally be on one anothers side, so there had to be some form of liking between the two primarchs.


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Akatsuki13 said:


> You realize that he was joking right?


Indubitably.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

I think the problem is that the HH books aften explicitly state the two primarchs are "the closest." For instance, in Horus Rising, it says that Sanguinus and Horus were the closest, but then in Galaxy in Flames, it says the same thing about Horus and Fulgrim, and then in Fulgrim it says the same thing about Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus.

That said, I've always thought that Lorgar generally got on well with and was respected for his wisdom by his brothers. The scene in A Thousand Sons where he mediates between Russ and Magnus comes to mind. Sanguinus also seemed like the kind of guy that you couldn't dislike. He and Horus seemed especially close. The same goes for Fulgrim, looking not only at his interaction with Horus but also the fact that at the beginning of the Crusade, their legions fought together for quite a while.

Magnus probably had some friends but kind of alienated people with his magic obssession. Then again, he was with the emperor when he met Lorgar, so the two are probably on good terms. Mortarion and Perturabo just don't seem like very nice guys to be around and Angron and Night Haunter... well... I mean Night Haunter had sort-of a friend in Fulgrim, who was his teacher in the ealry days of leading his legion.

I've always considered Roboute and Dorn to be a little too impersonal to really grow close to, particularly the former. Dorn is much more prone to flights of passion.

Khan, Vulkan, and Corax... these guys always get the least attention in the fluff, but they all seem like great guys, though Corax was probably a little moody. Ferrus Manus seemed to have a great relationship with Fulgrim (set up by the authors because they knew the two were going to duel)

Alpharius usually kept to himself, mostly. I think he had respect for Roboute until he became obssessed with proving the worth of his young legion.


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

I read the Horus was the only one that appreciated Alpharius's tactics and so I think they had some sort of common ground and brotherhood there.

Also Lorgar and Magnus were said to be somewhat close in the first heretic.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I don't think Alpharius ever had any more respect for Guilliman than others before their falling out. Nor was he obsessed with trying to prove himself, he was just a brilliantly tactical minded primarch, not that the others werent, but I firmly believe he is right at the top along with a few others like Horus, Jonson and Guilliman. Alpharius firmly believed in taking the route that would enable him to have a total victory, minimalist loses with vast amounts of intel gathered. To some of the primarchs it just seemed like he was showing off or trying to hard, but I don't believe that's the case at all. But that ideology of thinking outside the box clashed completely with Guilimans set doctrines, rigid rules and tactics, which of course worked, but the two methods were just completely opposite. In the end though Alpharius isn't said to like or dislike Guilliman, after their altercation he just chose to ignore him and not get concerned about it.


As for Lorgar, after reading The First Heretic, I agree that he and Magnus were likely close. But the over riding impression I got was the majority of primarchs didn't think very much of him and his religious and pacifist ways.


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> I don't think Alpharius ever had any more respect for Guilliman than others before their falling out. Nor was he obsessed with trying to prove himself, he was just a brilliantly tactical minded primarch, not that the others werent, but I firmly believe he is right at the top along with a few others like Horus, Jonson and Guilliman. Alpharius firmly believed in taking the route that would enable him to have a total victory, minimalist loses with vast amounts of intel gathered. To some of the primarchs it just seemed like he was showing off or trying to hard, but I don't believe that's the case at all. But that ideology of thinking outside the box clashed completely with Guilimans set doctrines, rigid rules and tactics, which of course worked, but the two methods were just completely opposite. In the end though Alpharius isn't said to like or dislike Guilliman, after their altercation he just chose to ignore him and not get concerned about it.


No, Alphariius definitely wanted to prove his worth after his row with Gulleman, culminating in Roboute pointing to his own legion's record and claiming that the Alpha Legion. After this, the Alpha Legion threw themselves even further into their preferred method of operations, largely cutting themselves off from standard Imperial practices and orchestrating greater and greater victorious examples of their approach to the Crusade, even when more conventional attacks would have been more efficient. 

The most notorious example of this took place on Tesstra Prime, where the Alpha Legion, instead of taking the opportunity to capture the planetary capital and force the world's surrender, allowed the enemy to dig in and defend it so that they could then expertly take the defending forces apart in a number of different ways. After a week of suffering seemingly random mishaps as well as brutal ambushes, the defenders were forced to capitulate, having taken 90% casualties. When asked why the Legion had not taken the simpler strategy, Alpharius is reported to have replied that they avoided it as "it would have been too easy." This campaign brought him censure from almost all of his brother Primarchs; only Horus, always impressed by Alpharius and his work, praised the Alpha Legion's skill.

Indeed, there have been a lot of instances where the Alpha Legion has held back troops etc. to test themselves more thoroughly.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

That's your opinion, I still don't think Alpharius was trying to prove anything to Guilliman, neither Alpharius or Omegon cared about what Guilliman thought of them(well what he thought about Alpharius) they state as much in Legion. 

Try not to copy and paste massive chunks out of Lexicanum (and at least reference it when you do), it's not always entirely correct. Tesstra Prime is only 'notorious' from certain perspectives, most notably Guilliman, to others like Horus(the Warmaster and arguably one of the greatest military minds at the current time) and others, myself included, it's a masterstroke of brilliance. He managed to achieve a total and complete victory with almost fuck all casualties. Sure he could have gone straight in and taken out the headquarters, but that would leave quite alot of forces still outside that would need to be taken out if they didn't surrender and would also have come with quite alot of casualties, and Alpharius and Omegon, and by extension the rest of the legion are shown to care alot more than other legions when it comes to minimalising casulaties of both their own men and agents aswell.

Dont take Lex for gospel


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## Sangriento (Dec 1, 2010)

Sanguinius and everybody else

because everybody loved tweety


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> That's your opinion, I still don't think Alpharius was trying to prove anything to Guilliman, neither Alpharius or Omegon cared about what Guilliman thought of them(well what he thought about Alpharius) they state as much in Legion.
> 
> Try not to copy and paste massive chunks out of Lexicanum (and at least reference it when you do), it's not always entirely correct. Tesstra Prime is only 'notorious' from certain perspectives, most notably Guilliman, to others like Horus(the Warmaster and arguably one of the greatest military minds at the current time) and others, myself included, it's a masterstroke of brilliance. He managed to achieve a total and complete victory with almost fuck all casualties. Sure he could have gone straight in and taken out the headquarters, but that would leave quite alot of forces still outside that would need to be taken out if they didn't surrender and would also have come with quite alot of casualties, and Alpharius and Omegon, and by extension the rest of the legion are shown to care alot more than other legions when it comes to minimalising casulaties of both their own men and agents aswell.
> 
> Dont take Lex for gospel


Gah! Caught red-handed!

Of course the events described are in the Alpha Legion section of Index Astartes IV, described in much the same manner. In defense of my original point, however, I'd like to bring up the previous Chaos Codex, in which it is explicitly stated that the Alpha Legion tried to "prove its worth relative to the older legions." You bring up Legion as an example, but I'm not quite sure it works in this instance. Alpharius and Omegon have a hard time telling anyone everything, so they probably wouldn't ever mention "Yeah, all this creeping about is to out-do that tosser Guilleman." 

Of course, it's not as simple as "out-doing Gulliman." I think they were trying to prove that their methods worked and were superior to those of their brothers. In fact, I'd say the Alpha Legions secrecy is one reason they don't hang out a lot with their brother legions. I mean, Alpharius was discovered rather late in the Crusade and everyone was busy commiting genocide and overthrowing cultures. Plus, if I were a Primarch and was paying my good bro Alpharius a social call, I'd get pretty annoyed with their whole "I am Alpharius" schtick. "Oh, hey Pech. No, you're not Alpharius, will you take off the damned helmet! No- Oh, hey Alpharius, I... wait... there's something off about you... like you're not precisely the same as th elast time I saw you... do you have a twin or something? Wait, nevermind, that's absurd."

Though I suppose in bringing up Index Astartes and Codex Chaos Space Marines, I am inadvertantly supporting your "up to interpretation" argument. Most of the Index Astartes Traitor Legion articles paint their entire career in a rather darker light than those of the loyalists. And, of course, Chaos Space Marines is written to show the more sinister motivations and how awesome the CSM's are, so there's something of a bias there.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I'm gonna say that my hommie Perturabo had a distant relationship with Dorn and Lion El Johnson. 

Dorn, just because it seemed when rereading that Index Astartes, it seemed as though after the dinner they had they said things to one another that hurt more than if they said that to someone else. Could be evidence that the two were close (or at least closer than Perturabo was with any other Primarch). Also the Iron Cage incident seemed something very personal to Dorn to get back at his rival brother. One could say it was just Dorn wanting to punish Perturabo over his failure on the Walls of Terra. But... Perturabo was not the one who breached the walls.. in fact... the only reference I read about Perturabo and the Walls of Terra is the passage where it says Perturabo took a perverse pleasure in watching the crumbling of the walls. So interesting there.

Lion El Johnson, due to that little passage in _Fallen Angel._ It seems quite interesting that Lion El Johnson trusted Perturabo (a distant "cousin" which they usually refer to one another as brother) with the siege engines of Horus, the "support" when the time came, and to keep secret about the Lion's involvement in the incident. Also, the Lion breaks character in this one scene. It could be the way he is with all his brothers. But he goes out of his way to explain to Perturabo how he knew about Horus' engines in lots of detail. Which is not something he did with anyone even his most trusted captains in the entire book. When Perturabo says that perhaps the Lion should be warmaster, the Lion in return also shows Perturabo may have broken character. He says something in the lines of, what you just said means a lot coming from you. Meaning Perturabo is a very proud primarch, and really didn't have to say that. And he really didn't, they already made the deal and the Lion thinks that Perturabo is going to Istvaan to destroy the traitors.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Sangriento said:


> Sanguinius and everybody else
> 
> because everybody loved tweety


lol! Its funny because its true, if he had been warmaster the heresy most likely never of taken place! But in the end Horus and Sanguinius where the greatest Friends or so the novels say.....then they contradict them selves and say Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus are!


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> lol! Its funny because its true, if he had been warmaster the heresy most likely never of taken place! But in the end Horus and Sanguinius where the greatest Friends or so the novels say.....then they contradict them selves and say Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus are!


Nah, Horus and Sanguinius were best friends, but Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus were BESTEST friends.


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