# What makes the Night Scythe so good?



## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

I seem to see everywhere that any mention of a Night Scythe in tactics is that 'they're amazing' 'they are OP' etc. and personally I don't see it.

I regularly run one in most my lists, but I am starting to use it less and less because it is just not resilient enough - pretty much every time (vearing in mind I have used it in at least 10 games now) it has come on the board par about 2 (even then it was down to 1 HP with some other effect such as stunned or weapon destroyed) the scythe has been intercepted by a quad gun equivalent - even when I have managed to somehow hid it behind a ruin.

I get that they could potentially win a game with a last turn objective denial, but that is very hard to do when it barely survives 1 round on the board, and as a transport it does keep the units inside relatively safe compared to other flying transport. THere are lists out there which seem to use 2 or 3, which I am assuming would work, but one of the scythe must be there purely to act as the decoy for any interceptor? Now spending 200-300pts just to have 100pts destroyed straight away doesn't seem like a good tactic to me, and it only works if they all come in (and based on probablity one of them won't), otherwise you lose a second one when it come in later.

I personally don't believe that AV11 is resilient enough to survive as a flyer and don't et how people can rate the night scythe above the helldrake, which is not only a bitch to take down but have the ability to clear an objective in a one round of shooting.

Does anyone else seem to have this problem? Why is it that you would take a NIght Scythe?


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

falcoso said:


> Does anyone else seem to have this problem? Why is it that you would take a NIght Scythe?


100 points, F/S AV13 until penned, transport that doesn't kill its troops when it blows up, S7 Arc gun with 4 shots.

You get that taken down by a Quad Gun? 6's to glance, and you lose it in a turn? _Really_??

....I friggin' want those dice.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Night Scythes don't have Quantum Shielding do they? 

But they are cheap and a dedicated transport which makes them a flyer able to be taken in larger numbers than any other army can.

Taken in ones and twos tho' they can be easily countered.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Shit, I really thought they had quantum shielding. Comment retracted, that does really change their survivability and I can see how the QG ruins your day.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

They don't have Quantum Shielding, and technically they don't have arc guns either. However, they are the cheapest flier on the market, with weaponry that can glance other fliers to death easily enough, making them strong interceptors. Add in that they can get troops onto the board fast, and you can see their strengths.

AV 11 is the standard for most fliers. the Stormraven has 12s, but it's a flying tank, and the Heldrake has 12s, but it's a flying DEMON. Those comparisons, sadly, just aren't flattering and really not fair. the Night Scythe isn't a dedicated gunship. It's a transport with some really effective defensive weapons (and high strength defensive weapons, at that). The Heldrake's job is to kill things in a brutal and efficient matter, and costs 70 points more. At that point you should be comparing one heldrake to two Night Scythes, and it'd be more accurate.

Now as for running a lone Scythe, keep in mind that it fairs the same as running one of anything. if you have a single large tank in your army (or Wraithknight, or Riptide, yadda yadda) and you have weapons TASKED for killing it, then yes, it's an issue because you're just feeding those guns. Because of fliers like the heldrake, a Quad Gun or VeloTrackers are standard... and Night Scythes just have to rush the field and do what they got to do. If they can drop a squad of Warriors behind a land raider and watch it gauss the thing to death... then that's 100 pts well spent just on the tactical flexibility.

Comparing them to the Heldrake, however, is a poor comparison.


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

ntaw said:


> Shit, I really thought they had quantum shielding. Comment retracted, that does really change their survivability and I can see how the QG ruins your day.


If they were AV13 I really wouldn't be complaining :grin:



Xabre said:


> They don't have Quantum Shielding, and technically they don't have arc guns either.
> 
> At that point you should be comparing one heldrake to two Night Scythes, and it'd be more accurate.


That is a very good point hadn't really thought about it in terms of points like that. But then I guess it goes back to my point about multiple fliers, if they don't both come in on the same turn then you are effectively back to square one becasue each one can be interecepted separately.

What do you mean by arc guns? They have tesla destructors that arc if that is what you mean?

So what would you guys suggest as a tactic for a solo scythe then? Just rush up the field as far as you ca, drop the unit inside and then hope to god it survives? Thinking about it you could drop the unit then pick it up the next turn?


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Xabre said:


> and technically they don't have arc guns either


Tesla destructors have the Arc special rule and they're on the Night Scythe. Care to explain what you mean here? I know I confused Living Metal and Quantum Shielding, but this one is pretty black and white.



Xabre said:


> AV 11 is the standard for most fliers. the Stormraven has 12s, but it's a flying tank, and the Heldrake has 12s, but it's a flying DEMON.


Valkyries are AV12 front and side as well (unless my buddy has been wrong for a while), and they are predominantly transports. I'm not sure of their options, the one I have always faced has a lascannon and that's all. Not that this changes your point, it's just another flier with better armour.



falcoso said:


> So what would you guys suggest as a tactic for a solo scythe then?


If you run an ADL with a QG you could combine all those twin-linked S7 shots into some sweet anti air. Aside from that it's the only flier that can deploy troops as normal while still moving 24" or less, and the only restriction from 24" to 36" is that the squad can only take snap shots. You can get some decent squad placement out of that hopefully.


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## LTKage (May 2, 2012)

They're cheap, they have a good gun that can ruin light vehicles, is ok against other non-AV 12 flyers, has INVASION BEAMS, and is a flyer. Definitely awesome when 6th Edition started and not to be trifled with even as skyfire becomes more common.

Concerning tactics for solo Night Scythes, the most obvious strategy is to kill things with Skyfire and/or Interceptor before they come in. Other units with formidable volume of fire and damage output, such as Warp Spiders, ought to be a high priority as well. Tau Pathfinders or things like Eldar Farseers (massed twin-linking) should also be targeted.


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## Silens (Dec 26, 2010)

I've never run a single scythe. I run five. - Maniacal laughter. -

They're flyers that troops can embark/disembark from without the flyer having to go into hover mode. They have a S7, 4(?) Shots Twin-Linked gun which gets a bonus 2 auto-hits on sixes. The transport capacity is quite big as well. I run them in a 2k list with 30 Immortals.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

ntaw said:


> Tesla destructors have the Arc special rule and they're on the Night Scythe. Care to explain what you mean here? I know I confused Living Metal and Quantum Shielding, but this one is pretty black and white.


My apologies, when you said Arc, I was thinking of the Monolith, which has Gauss Flux Arcs, as part of its name. I honestly forgot that the Destructor even gets the Arc rule.

As for the Valkyrie, it does have 12/12/10, and a single Multi-Laser, plus some single use rockets. Adding a single Lascannon increases it's strength substantially but removes most of it's quantity of shots. But it also doesn't have the accuracy of a Scythe, and unless you're using an IA Elysian list, cost you one of your Fast Attacks.

The Vendetta runs a far more impressive firepower output and only +30 points... I'd say that one's a stronger comparison.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Xabre said:


> I honestly forgot that the Destructor even gets the Arc rule.


It's great, specially when there's a few units close together on an objective!



Silens said:


> I run them in a 2k list with 30 Immortals.


6 man squads?



Xabre said:


> The Vendetta runs a far more impressive firepower output and only +30 points


So I have heard, but my buddy's moving away from IG and never made his Valkyrie into one. I was just thinking of other AV12 fliers. There's a lot of AV10/11 out there!


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## Jam123456 (Feb 9, 2012)

well i think with all flyers the tactic is go big or go home...

One of anything is weak. 2 is a bit better but 3 or 4 of these can work well. this depends on pts level of games but i would say a minimum of 1 at 750 2 at 1K and 3 at 1.5K would work well. That isn't a great amount of points for what they bring. 


however most of my opponents rarely take any anti air other than other flyers.

Also remember that you still have to draw line of site for intercept so i'm sure you must have some terrain that can help you there. LOS is drawn from gun to model even for flyers so you should be able to get a cover save if you place any terrain of 8 inch or so down. 

Secondly at 100 points you get a cheap ass transport which can really dish out some shots. if your running one then try to find line blocking terrain or take out major sky fire threats in turn 1. if not try two or three if you can run proxies and test them and you will see the difference.


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## Silens (Dec 26, 2010)

ntaw said:


> It's great, specially when there's a few units close together on an objective!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nah, I actually only run two Night Scythes. The other three are Doom Scythes. 3 units of 10 immortals. 1 sits in my ADL, two come in via Night Scythes (First turn of arrival one of these units switches out with the one in the ADL so my Overlord can move up the field).


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Jam123456 said:


> well i think with all flyers the tactic is go big or go home...
> 
> One of anything is weak.


*Heldrake*

I'm the guy who's constantly bringing down Falcoso's Night Scythe, and to be fair, I also run 2 Mortis-Pattern Dreadnoughts with Autocannons, soon to be Lascannons, so I've essentially got 4 Twin-Linked Icarus Lascannons and a Quad-Gun as my AA (I need that much to have a 50% chance of taking down my group's single, meta-destroying Heldrake).

But essentially, yes, run at least 3 and you'll see an improvement.

Midnight


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

Nice job Midnightsun, gotta keep those toasters down, otherwise they will get right back up again.

*que Tubhumping by chumbawamba*


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

MidnightSun said:


> I'm the guy who's constantly bringing down Falcoso's Night Scythe


:laugh: After seeing some of your lists, yeah. I can see how one flier would be finished.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

The reason is simple. The Ghost Ark can only carry necron warriors. 

The Night Scythe can carry almost any infantry in the necron list. Fast. 

That is why.


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

But the problem with that is that you are forced to drop the unit as far up the field as would be best otherwise the scythe is destroyed and they have to wait even longer before they then have to walk. If this is turn 2 that the scythe comes in then the unit you drop is going to be far away from any units that can support it meaning that it will be the attention of a lot of fire. However if you do use the multiple scythe tactic then I guess it would be a lot more workable as there would be multiple units that you would need to prioritize 




MidnightSun said:


> *Heldrake*
> 
> I'm the guy who's constantly bringing down Falcoso's Night Scythe, and to be fair, I also run 2 Mortis-Pattern Dreadnoughts with Autocannons


I think u have needed one of the dreadnoughts interceptor shots once, the rest of the time the quad gun deals with it  - they are generally used to take down another friend's helldrake 

I have actually had a thought on a tactic to use when you have one scythe- take a destruc-tek with gaze of flame and set it off on the turn it comes in, whereas it is fairly impossible to stay out of 48" range on a normal sized board, 36" is a lot easier to do, and even if you can't there is the potential to get a 3+ jink save. Thoughts?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

falcoso said:


> But the problem with that is that you are forced to drop the unit as far up the field as would be best otherwise the scythe is destroyed and they have to wait even longer before they then have to walk. If this is turn 2 that the scythe comes in then the unit you drop is going to be far away from any units that can support it meaning that it will be the attention of a lot of fire. However if you do use the multiple scythe tactic then I guess it would be a lot more workable as there would be multiple units that you would need to prioritize


Cannot say I've had this problem, i always plan for a turn one or two drop anyway.  At least I used to. I've shied away from flyers in general this time around.


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Ahhh the night Scythe! Such a twisted invention.

I personally think it would be easier to discuss the things that are bad about the scythe because frankly there are less things to type but what ever.

First is its point cost:
Only costing 100 points for a flying transport that has a 100% guarantee that your squad will not die if/when it falls from the sky is pretty nifty especially when the squad its transporting is not cheap. To put it into perspective seeing a Grey Knights ship fall from the sky with a full squad of purifiers in it can really sway the game into the opponents favor. That's a lot of points to be losing. Now being able to simply put your necron squad into ongoing reserves instead may suck because their mobility is gone BUT its a lot better then being deleted from the game.

Not to mention at that point cost you can take LOTS OF THEM!!!!


Second is its mobility:
Being able to move up to 24 and fire its all its weapons / deploy its squad is devastating. Having second player turn can absolutely foil any opponents chances of holding objectives.

Third is its gun:
The Night Scythe comes equipped with a "Twin-Linked Tesla Dystructor". This cheeky gun has no AP value but what really makes it great is its ability to compound a to-hit roll of a 6 into an additional 2 wounds (Maxing its possible wound total to 12 with one scythe!!!!). Being Str 6 means that even AV 12 vehicles/flyers are trembling! This gun also has the Arc special rule which means on a dice roll of a 6 it can potentially wound itself, friendly models, and/or foes within 6" of the target squad you initially shot.

The ways to play Scythes really depend on what your going for in the army. typically one on its own wont give you the results you want because it just like every other unit in the game could look great on paper, but at the end of the day it always comes down to dice rolls. Increase the QTY of scythes will directly result in an increase in productivity on the table.
I did the good old fashion:

SPAM / OVERWHELM / DANCE PUPPET / FLYING CIRCUS/ FRENCH BAKERY


At it proved super effective.

The scythe still has its set backs such as its inability to hover, and its inability to maneuver all that great (it needs vector dancer IMHO lol!) but over all this thing for its points is amazing!

My Necrons never leave home without one...or two...or 6 
Chaosftw


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

Yeah, Nightscythes are great. 100pts for a model that can carry up to 15 dudes, and if they shoot it down they don't all die in a huge ball of fire? Oh and it doesn't have to enter Hover mode to have them get out, or pick new guys up.

What I do sometimes is I move the Nightscythe onto the board, have the dudes get out, rapid fire at something (if I have 15 Warriors, most likely kill it), and if they are still there next turn, suck them back up and then move on to the next target.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Da Joka said:


> What I do sometimes is I move the Nightscythe onto the board, have the dudes get out, rapid fire at something (if I have 15 Warriors, most likely kill it), and if they are still there next turn, suck them back up and then move on to the next target.


That's only going to work twice at best?

Turn 1 can't enter
Turn 2 Enter, disembark, shoot
Turn 3 Embark, move
Turn 4 Disembark, shoot
Turn 5 Embark, move


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

It's a big turn 6 man. Jeeze.


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

falcoso said:


> I have actually had a thought on a tactic to use when you have one scythe- take a destruc-tek with gaze of flame and set it off on the turn it comes in, whereas it is fairly impossible to stay out of 48" range on a normal sized board, 36" is a lot easier to do, and even if you can't there is the potential to get a 3+ jink save. Thoughts?


So as it turns out, this isn't such a good tactic as I realised that the solar pulse only lasts one turn meaning that if I set it off during my turn to protect the scythe from interceptor my opponent is effected at all next turn :/



Chaosftw said:


> Ahhh the night Scythe! Such a twisted invention.
> 
> I personally think it would be easier to discuss the things that are bad about the scythe because frankly there are less things to type but what ever.
> 
> ...




Don't get me wrong there are some good points there, and while the scythe is amazing in that you can protect the unit inside when it crashes, most other flying transports are armour 12 which is a lot harder to take down.

Cheers for your input guys looks like with everything in necrons you just need MOOOOORRRREEE :grin:


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

While the Night Scythes do have their uses, If I were a Necron player I'd be loath to spend the money on "'Cronair".

Once Space Marines get Flakk Missiles it is pretty much game over for them. 
One per squad Hitting on 3+, Glancing on 4+, and that is before you get to the Quad gun/ Stormtalon /Stormraven, is going to go a long way to reducing the "shock and awe".


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Magpie_Oz said:


> Once Space Marines get Flakk Missiles it is pretty much game over for them.


I swear, if the BA get shafted out of this upgrade due to their lack of connection with Mars I'll lose it. Putting away the foreshadowing of nerd rage...



Magpie_Oz said:


> One per squad Hitting on 3+, Glancing on 4+, and that is before you get to the Quad gun/ Stormtalon /Stormraven, is going to go a long way to reducing the "shock and awe".


Not to mention Mortis upgrades for dreadnoughts if you're playing out of some IA books. 

That being said, you've just described a layered air defense that would work against pretty much all fliers. Flakk is expensive for DA, and it will likely be just as for other SM chapters. There's already a few people even on this site that advocate against using FMLs in tactical squads as the rest of the squad's shooting is basically wasted on snap shots or on weapons that just can't do anything. Not that I won't be super excited for my BA to use it one day or even to ally it in via DA, but I doubt it will make that much of a difference in anyone's local meta unless it's spammed...and we all know the strengths and weaknesses of spamming certain things in list, specially something so specifically tailored to one type of unit.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

ntaw said:


> I swear, if the BA get shafted out of this upgrade due to their lack of connection with Mars I'll lose it. Putting away the foreshadowing of nerd rage...


Meh, BA will be going to supplement anyway


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Magpie_Oz said:


> Meh, BA will be going to supplement anyway


wha....no...you...but...:ireful2:

hahahaha


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Magpie_Oz said:


> Meh, BA will be going to supplement anyway


Coordinates: LOCKED
Exterminatus: AUTHORIZED
Firing Sequence: ACTIVATED



Anywho ...
I actually thought the death to Flyers came with those Quad Icarus guns. Pretty nasty stuff. The problem with Flakk missiles is the cost. In a tournament setting, you are paying the cost of those missiles for every round, even if you come across no Flyers. And if that's the case, you should maximize the effectiveness. Rather than have 3 Tac squads shoot with one gun, use Devastators and ensure the destruction in one blow. Of course, Space Marines will probably have a Sargent upgrade that grants Splitfire.

As for Cronair, I don't think we'll see the end of it so quick. Granted, I only have 2 Scythes, but I run mine with the stipulation that the unit disembarks the turn the Scythe arrives. Interceptor works after my movement phase. So I may lose the Scythe but the passengers won't get stuck footslogging from Reserves. Few opponents hold back enough that the Scythe's unit won't have a target.

Some of you might think I'd do better just deploying the unit. But if my opponent wins the roll-off and makes me go first, I can't position to counter their units so effectively. But the Scythe brings the right unit to the right target.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

ntaw said:


> That being said, you've just described a layered air defense that would work against pretty much all fliers. Flakk is expensive for DA, and it will likely be just as for other SM chapters. There's already a few people even on this site that advocate against using FMLs in tactical squads as the rest of the squad's shooting is basically wasted on snap shots or on weapons that just can't do anything. Not that I won't be super excited for my BA to use it one day or even to ally it in via DA, but I doubt it will make that much of a difference in anyone's local meta unless it's spammed...and we all know the strengths and weaknesses of spamming certain things in list, specially something so specifically tailored to one type of unit.


Flakk is unusable in it's current incarnation. I've taken it maybe twice, three times, and it sucks so much dick it's not even funny or fluffy. It literally only affects Cronair and Dakkajets, and both of those can kill your Devastators before they can shoot. Speaking of which, so can the Heldrake and Stormraven, but at Str7 with 4, non-twin-linked shots, you can't actually damage them so it's not like they care.

Midnight


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

Magpie_Oz said:


> While the Night Scythes do have their uses, If I were a Necron player I'd be loath to spend the money on "'Cronair".
> 
> Once Space Marines get Flakk Missiles it is pretty much game over for them.
> One per squad Hitting on 3+, Glancing on 4+, and that is before you get to the Quad gun/ Stormtalon /Stormraven, is going to go a long way to reducing the "shock and awe".


Its not the anti-air that is actually the problem, I mean most vehicles are going to be affected by anti-tank at armour 11, it the fact the interceptor just loses you 100pts of your army and all you have done is drop a unit further up the board.

I don't really see the point in flak missile, you end up wasting the rest of the unit's shooting unless you take an entire unit of them, and for those points you ma as well get an aegis line and quad gun which will be able to intercept and is twin-linked


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

I don't see flakk as a one or the other. 

Point is that as anti aircraft weapons become more readily available in larger numbers the weak, yet abundant, Necron flyers lose their effectiveness.

At the moment 10 flyers at 100 points each gives you a huge advantage and mean you can attack ground targets with impunity once you have taken out the single quad gun you are allowed.

With Stormravens and Flakk being easily added to the mix now or Tau being able to Skyfire a large number of weapons and so forth well, like I said if I were a 'cron thinking where to spend my money it wouldn't be on flyer spam.


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