# New to Warhammer Fantasy



## Zero Effect (Feb 15, 2011)

As a few people know me for my Dark Eldar in 40K, I have decided over time that my painting skills and then my game play will be tested more in venturing into the world of Fantasy.

Having taken the dip from looking at various armies models, reading rule books and looking at something to test my painting skills to another level, the Forces that I am looking at commanding are - Daemons of Chaos.

I currently own the rule book and am slowly building the 1st box that I got 10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch.

I have also set out on a list of 1000 points to build up and slowly paint (Dark Eldar is my main project for 2012).

1000 point list

1 Herald of Tzeentch on Disc of Tzeentch
18 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch with Changeling, musician and standard bearer
1 Herald of Slaanesh
18 Daemonettes of Slaanesh with Alluress, musician and standard bearer
3 Screamers of Tzeentch
3 Flamers of Tzeentch

The one thing that I approach you with at this present moment is;

What is the standard size fantasy game these days?

I have the new supplement on the Daemons from White Dwarf so am aware of the Flamers update (just love the look of the new ones).

Finally to give me an idea of basing a DofC, what sort of basing effect would suit the whole army?

Thank you for reading and any pointers or advice will be gratefully received.

Zero Effect


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

I am playing Daemons as my tournament army right now. The standard game is at 2400 or 2500 points. Some places still play at 2000 points. Daemons really play best at 2400 to 2500

I would consider the following as a wish list for what to get if you want to play a lot of options:
1. Two herald of tzeentch (can consider making one with a BSB banner and/or with flying for winged horror).
2. Up to 40 horrors (most people only play one unit of 10 to 20 to babysit the herald of Tzeentch, cast flickering fire spell on one dice and to channel power and dispel dice, but, in a comped environment, a larger horror unit can act as a lvl 3 or lvl 4 for magic offense and defense without having to take a second herald of tzeentch or having to spend expensive points on magic levels on a greater deamon)
3. {optional] One or two heralds of slaanesh
4. {optional} Up to 30 daemonettes (most people playing only one larger unit of up to 30 or one or two minimum 10 units each with the herald. These are specialized units for hitting lower T lower AS units and using siren song to pull something out of position.)
5. At least one herald of khorne (the hatred he gives to the bloodletters is essential and his ability to get a decent armour save and magic weapon for 50 or fewer points makes him a good fighting character)
6. Up to 50 bloodletters, a bloodletter horde with a herald of khorne is the best killing unit you have available in the game right now. A unit of 30 to 45 bloodletters is pretty standard. The herald is essential for the hatred maximizing hits for killing blow rolls in round one of combat. 
7. [optional] one herald of nurgle with and without palanquin option
8. [optional] up to 40 plague bearers Plague bearers are under-rated with the posion and re-roll to wound banner and T4, they are still effective in 8th edition and do not require a herald of nurgle. They make a good anvil unit. 
9. 2 to 6 Fiends of slaanesh (totally under-rated as chaff and redirectors, best used as single models or in units of 3 or 4, extremely vast and resilient, can go after light units of skirmishers and fast cav)
7. [Optional] Soul grinder (take with fire thrower and maybe Daemonbone clasw for when iron claw works against something tought with multiple wounds; not yet sure if worth it, low number of attacks is an issue and means this is best used in a supporting role charging with another unit)
8. 3-6 Screamers (new rules with +1S, +1T, +1Wound and +2attacks for slight point cost increase now make these viable now in place of furies and flamers whereas they were only used in fluff armies before due to being over-costed before; fewer wounds per point but greater T and slashing attacks make them very effective against light units and war machines, a bit expensive to use solely as chaff)
9. 5 to 15 furies (before the new rules update, I played 3 units of 5; even with screamers being viable, I will still have at least one and likely 2 units of 5 due to low points cost and unique abilities to redirect, block and take out or tie up light units in opposing armies; tremendously valuable for screening units for hard cover from BS shooting, for getting in the way and redirecting enemy threats, for killing or at least tying up war machines, and for going after very weak skirmishers; very under-rated; will die if they lose combat with LD 2)
10. 5 to 10 fleshhounds (under-rated due to S5 and WS5, high MR means magic missiles and a lot of direct damage bounce off them, can take on things fiends cannot due to extra +1S and +1 WS)
11. [optional] Keeper of Secrets model with spirit swallower (probably the only consistently reliable greater daemon in 8th edition due to ability to recover wounds from attacks and thunderstomp in combat)
12. [optional] Great Unclean One (high number of wounds and certain daemonic items make this still a popular greater daemon)
13. [very optional] Bloodthirster (used to be great in 7th edition, too easily killed in 8th edition by war machines and high S shooting and certian magic)
14. [optional] 3-6 flamers (update really nerfed them by -1S and multi-shot penalty but they may still have a role as your only skirmishers with decent shooting; now more likely to be played in one small unit of 3 as shooting and redirector units because of the multi-shot penalty significantly reducing the ability to march and hit targets at long range)
15. [optional] Exalted chariot (not convinced of the value of the new slaanesh chariots due to high points cost and poor AS and only T4, but the big one with the extra wounds and large number of attacks from crew and steeds might combo nicely with a Keeper of secrets or something else like bloodletters if it can hit a corner of a unit with the other unit hitting most of the opposing unit to max combat). 

Special characters worth considering:
1. Kairos (high ward save and magic casting abilities make him over-powered)
2. Skulltaker (excellent character killer, not a herald means can join units from other chaos types; combos with changeling in a unit of horrors)
3. Changeling (really nerfs a tough character charging a unit of horrors)
4. Epidemus (excellent if playing a great unclean one and plague bearer units, talleyman strategy is huge)
5. Masque of Slaanesh
6. [optional] Blue Scribes (not convinced of this one)

Units over-costed, generally played less often:
1. Beast of Nurgle (points cost reflected ability to roll for both a regen and ward save in 7th edition, nerfed in 8th edition, new update should have lowered the points cost and fixed this model to make it viable again)
2. Seekers of Slaanesh (some like them, but they just are not points efficient, too easily shot up and killed, not enough S to hit hard on the charge)
3. Nurglings (over-priced but sometimes used for fluff and thematic purposes, often used with Epidemus talleyman army or with GUO special items)
4. Bloodcrushers (still playable but compared with other new monstrous cav units, such as demigriph knights and mournfang, these are over-costed by about 15 to 20 points due to having only 2 wounds, instead of three for most monstrous cav, and the more limited number of attacks of the mounts and/or absence of impact hits by comparison)


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

As for basing, the basic choice is some sort of hard scrabble (looks like rocks and dirt) with some grass (yellowed and spotty) or other vegetation reflective of an arid environment consistent with the pictures on pages 69 to 80 of the army book. Alternatively, Ive seen something more surreal for a daemonic world, for example I used some large resin crystals (painted with gloss medium and metalic purple to look like amethyst crystals) on the base to mount my Keeper of secrets as though he was straddling a rough, crystaline surface. For khorne and tzeentch themes, a broken rock basing that looks like lava fields (with lava exposed in the cracks) is interesting. You sometimes see small skulls on Khorne unit bases. (Examples of bases with the lava, broken rocks and skulls can be seen for bloodletters on page 70 fo the army book.)


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## Zero Effect (Feb 15, 2011)

OlderPlayer, thank you for the advice and food for thought. I will be coming back for more eventually! Thanks again


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