# On the nature of the Anathame, Kinebrach anathame and anthame; a compliation



## merp141 (Aug 1, 2012)

Looking at the qualities of the anathame

What qualities does it have? What do we know? How much of "what we know" are lies spread by chaos?

If you have anything about the anathame or anythign that seems like the anathame pleas post it!


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## merp141 (Aug 1, 2012)

Ok, so the molecular came from the fact that the apothecary said that the "it has the perfect genetic cameoflage"

Genetic camouflage makes no sense. A toxin is a simple protein or protein complex; it has no nucleic acids. In addition immune systems don't recognise nucleic acids (well it CAN, but it doesn't have to. It works pretty well even if it can't detect the DNA or RNA) Many Viruses, bacteria and cancer cells have molecular camouflage ie. their molecules are harder to "see" if that makes sense... =/

Sorry if the explanation isn't great, I'm not so used to talking to laypeople anymore...


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

i get what your saying, but then it is tailored for primarchs, so hey maybe it is genetic.

heres a link i found on everything kinerbach related.
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Kinebrach


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## merp141 (Aug 1, 2012)

Lost&Damned said:


> i get what your saying, but then it is tailored for primarchs, so hey maybe it is genetic.


N-n-n-no...... thats not how it works.... 

A toxin is a protein, a protein is just a protein.... it has no DNA or RNA.... This is sadly an inviolable fact so no... I doesn't have genetic camouflage. It could have molecular camouflage, thats real and it works and could work...


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

i will never be a doctor


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## merp141 (Aug 1, 2012)

Awww, dude thats a wiki... =/ No WAY we can use THAT as a source! You know as well as I do its just asking for trouble.. =P

Direct quotes about it from the books as read by me, you or others or its no use to us. Besides, I never read that it was dedicated to Nurgle. Besides, how were the Interex able to store it safely? Daemon or chaos weapons all have evil corruptive aura-type stuff going on, how did they and Erberus keep it under raps?



Lost&Damned said:


> i will never be a doctor


Well I'm sure if you WANT to be a doctor you could be.. People think its all hard but its mostly hard work and a certain mentality and clarity of thought. What kind of doctor; Scientific or Medical?


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

was just kidding about the doctor stuff, and as i said in the other thread:
-the weapon was kept in the museum, the same reason the sword that corrupted Fulgrim was left with an alien race, so the respective primarchs could be corrupted by them, them being the medium.It was intelligent to leave it with the interex.
its within chaos's interest to keep it with the interex and for it to be inconspicuous .
i gtg for training (exercise), see you in an hour or 2


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

I'm unsure exactly what you're looking for, but it seems to be a rational behind why the anatheme actually works. I think the biggest issue is the weapon appears to be sentient and fueled by the Warp; you speak the name of the individual into the weapon and it practically does the fighting for you. I would suspect Apothacary Vaddon's statement about the "perfect genetic cameoflage" comes from some warp-quality that allows the infection/venom/toxin to change in nature when detected or even threatened. Considering Horus can't even come out of his coma until the Chaos Gods are satisfied he's signed the deal, the delivery method is just a warp-based mask.

The biggest stretch is why in the hell an advanced society like the Interex would keep a weapon of this ferocity/potency in a public museum? "Sure it's an armed nuclear bomb that only needs to be hit with a ballpeen hammer to go off, but we have it behind glass and have this cool security system."


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## merp141 (Aug 1, 2012)

Sorry, but I just don't buy that. What you're saying sounds like meta; the blade was there so it could push on the storyline... =/ Not that its a bad argument, its good but it ruins my willing suspension of disbelief....

Also the Anathame doesn't do any chaos... *stuff*... like no voices, no glowing or fire or anything like that. It doesn't appear to have a mind of its own like all the other uber chaos weapons... It does have that aura of malice about it but It doesn't act like a weapon aligned to any of the gods... Fulgrim wields it against Guilliman despite the fact that its supposedly a Nurgle attuned weapon... =/

The plot thickens....  Also see you later!


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## Lord Commander Solus (Jul 26, 2012)

Trying to find a scientific reason for the anathame working? If you could find one that's satisfactory to us humans today it'd already be in manufacturing. Heck, why not start on the Webway and beat Big E to the punch? :laugh:

I think the anathame is more akin to C'tanic power than Chaos. It bends reality rather than unreality, if you get what I mean.


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## merp141 (Aug 1, 2012)

We're not *looking* for anything, just discussing the anathame. Any information you can contribute at is a help!



Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> I think the biggest issue is the weapon appears to be sentient and fueled by the Warp


Is it sentient though? Note that there is a difference between being intelligent and sentient. I can't think of a time where the anathame acted like an individual.. Sure it knows how to fight and can adapt to what its fighting but it itself seems to have no personality. Intelligent yes, sentient not so sure..



Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> The biggest stretch is why in the hell an advanced society like the Interex would keep a weapon of this ferocity/potency in a public museum? "Sure it's an armed nuclear bomb that only needs to be hit with a ballpeen hammer to go off, but we have it behind glass and have this cool security system."


This is what always bothered me about that part. I really don't understand it either.. =/

In addition a weapon of chaos is corrupting by its very presence; it has power even when not wielded. The anathame does not. It almost seems to work.. well like a computer. It does nothing until you tell it to do something, then it does it. Doesn't act like ANY daemon weapon I've ever heard of....


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## merp141 (Aug 1, 2012)

Lord Commander Solus said:


> Trying to find a scientific reason for the anathame working? If you could find one that's satisfactory to us humans today it'd already be in manufacturing. Heck, why not start on the Webway and beat Big E to the punch? :laugh:


Not what we were doing. Just going over what we know from the fluff and putting it all together and looking at the inconsistancies.

The bit about the science is a question he asked in another thread, just a wording issue, but thanks for the attempt at humour, it brightened my day =)



Lord Commander Solus said:


> I think the anathame is more akin to C'tanic power than Chaos. It bends reality rather than unreality, if you get what I mean.


I do get what you mean, and actually the thought had crossed my mind to.. It acts more like a advanced programmed machine than a weapon posessed by a daemon....


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

Maybe you have to be corrupted to some degree or at least psychic to make it work in the way it does? If the interex aren't psychic they may jus think its a good story


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## HOGGLORD (Jan 25, 2012)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> The biggest stretch is why in the hell an advanced society like the Interex would keep a weapon of this ferocity/potency in a public museum? "Sure it's an armed nuclear bomb that only needs to be hit with a ballpeen hammer to go off, but we have it behind glass and have this cool security system."


You're forgetting a handful of dudes with spears and chainmail, maybe even bows and arrows...

I was going to say that instead of a conventional virus, it was more like a technology, like a biological machine, created for the purpose of harming who and whatever it is intended to, it can edit it's (insert important scientific technical term here) structure to be tailor made for any foe.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Could it be, and this could just be a stretch but bear with me here. Could it be that the author thought that the words he was typing sounded cool in a science fantasy setting so he used them without really bothering to delve into the deeper reaches of the science behind it?


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## merp141 (Aug 1, 2012)

HOGGLORD said:


> You're forgetting a handful of dudes with spears and chainmail, maybe even bows and arrows...


Emmm..... what? Sorry I don't quite remember that part of the book.. =/



HOGGLORD said:


> I was going to say that instead of a conventional virus, it was more like a technology, like a biological machine, created for the purpose of harming who and whatever it is intended to, it can edit it's (insert important scientific technical term here) structure to be tailor made for any foe.


Thats a good'un. If it were a star trek thing and I could technobabble the hell out of it I'd say that its got some sort of sensor in the hilt that on command can scan the opponent you name right down to their molecules. The information would be passed to the blade, which would be made of adaptive nano-machines. When the enemy is cut the blade leaves trace machines in the wound and they do what they can to kill the subject. Also this high tech approach is supported by the fact that the kinebrach were once a very techologically advanced race...

Also I've just realised how little I care anymore  Please do carry on without me! :so_happy:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

> "Magnus opened his eyes to see sparks flying as stone chipped stone, and primitive smithing tools shaped a blade of napped flint. He saw the sword take shape, the workmanship little better than that of the pre-Neanderthal civilisations of Old Earth. Yet this was no human artifice, and this craftsmanship was sophisticated and undoubtedly alien. The proportions of the blade and grip were subtly wrong, the hands that fashioned them blue black and downy with a fine comb of russet hair. Nor was this a normal blade, it was sentient. The word didn’t fit, but it was the most appropriate one Magnus could find. It was forged by alien metallurgists in ways too inhuman to be understood, imbued with the power of the fates. It was a nemesis weapon, crafted to slay without mercy. Magnus recoiled from the blade, horrified that an intelligent race would dare craft such a dreadful tool of destruction. What reason could there be to bring such a vile thing into being?"





> "Magnus saw a rearing mass of metal in the heart of a swamp, the rusted hulk of a starship that rose like an iron cliff or an ocean-going vessel sinking to its doom. Putrescent things made their homes in its rusted superstructure, and something monstrous made its lair in its dead heart. Magnus had no clue what that might be, but saw the glitter sheen of metal and knew that the nemesis blade of the alien craftsman had found its way here."


Both quotes from A Thousand Sons may be of interest.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

‘They are tailored weapons,’ Naud replied. ‘Blades of sentient
metal, crafted by the kinebrach metallurgists, a technique now
utterly forbidden. We call them anathames. When such a blade is
selected for use against a specific target, it becomes that target’s
nemesis, utterly inimical to the person or being chosen.’

also, when horus was fighting Temba, it wasn't just Temba fighting him, but the sword itself willed his destruction, its not like normal deamonic weapons but it nevertheless isnt solely a creation of the physical world, but a melding of the two. especially considering my quotes (at the bottom of this post) its clear the weapon is biological in nature.

and regarding what you said about fulgrim using it, though it was a weapon of Nurgle, i see no conflict of interests, there is no great enmity between Nurgle and slaanesh, its perfectly plausible for Fulgrim to use it, the blade would really only want to kill and poison as many people as possible and fulgrim gave it the chance to kill one the greatest beings in existance.

This is a guess, but it looks like this particular poison induces a
form of anemic hypoxia. Once it enters the bloodstream, it’s absorbed
exponentially by the red blood cells, in preference to oxygen.
With the Warmaster’s accelerated metabolism, the toxin was
carried efficiently around his system, damaging his tissue cells as
it went, so they were unable to make proper use of the reduced
oxygen content.’


the Warmaster was immune to such things.’
‘And so he is, but this is like nothing I’ve ever seen before… it’s
as though it’s been specifically designed to kill him. It’s got precisely
the right genetic camouflage to fool his enhanced biological
defences and allow it to do the maximum amount of damage.
It’s a primarch killer – pure and simple.’

And regarding it being in a military museum (its a catalogue of weapons the interex has procured from various alien races), its not public, they put it their entirely to test the imperium, to see how they would react, what level of knowledge they had regarding weapons/chaos and gauge their desire for war and level of corruption.


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## merp141 (Aug 1, 2012)

Lost&Damned said:


> ‘They are tailored weapons,’ Naud replied. ‘Blades of sentient metal, crafted by the kinebrach metallurgists, a technique now utterly forbidden. We call them anathames. When such a blade is
> selected for use against a specific target, it becomes that target’s
> nemesis, utterly inimical to the person or being chosen.’


This just tells me that its intelligent nanotech...



Lost&Damned said:


> it is clear the weapon is biological in nature


Explain how you reached this conclusion. Biological systems are adaptable but they don't work that fast. I suppose we could just say "well, magic" and leave it at that but lets base everything solely on what we can find in direct quotes. It more closely resembles nanotech imho; the whole "robot mouse" thought experiment.




Lost&Damned said:


> and regarding what you said about fulgrim using it, though it was a weapon of Nurgle


Show me where it says "the anathame is aligned to nurgle". Actually something I considered when thinking about how ancient the Kinebrach are is that if they had been devoted to anyone it could be Malal. In addition doesn't it say the weapon had an "aura of malice" somewhere? Plus its a weapon desigend to kill anything (maybe even eerything.... :shok: ) Just a pet idea, I have no evidence.

The lack of serious emnity between Nurgle and Slaanesh I'll buy, but not to the extent that they would let their greater daemons use weapons aligned to other gods, and I haven't seen it happpen anywhere.. Still, I suppose plausible.



Lost&Damned said:


> And regarding it being in a military museum (its a catalogue of weapons the interex has procured from various alien races), its not public, they put it their entirely to test the imperium


Did they say this? Can I get a quote?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lost&Damned said:


> though it was a weapon of Nurgle


Where are you pulling that from? There is no lore whatsoever that suggests the blade was in some manner aligned with Nurgle.



Lost&Damned said:


> there is no great enmity between Nurgle and slaanesh


Oh, there is.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

The parade’s destination was a building called the Hall of Devices,
a place which apparently had some military significance to
the interex. Old, and of considerable size, the hall resembled a
museum. Built into a steep section of the bay slopes, the hall enclosed
many chambers that were more than two or three storeys
high. Plunging display vaults, some of great size, showed off assemblies
of weapons, from forests of ancient swords and halberds
to modern motorised cannons, all suffused in the pale blue
glow of the energy fields that secured them.
‘The hall is both a museum of weapons and war devices, and an
armoury,’ Jephta Naud explained as he greeted them. Naud was
a tall, noble creature with complicated dermatoglyphics on the
right side of his face. His eyes were the colour of soft gold, and
he wore silver armour and a cloak of scalloped red metal links
that made a sound like distant chimes when he moved. An armoured
officer walked at his side, carrying Naud’s crested warhelm.
Though the Astartes had come armoured, the Warmaster had
chosen to wear robes and furs rather than his battle-plate. He
showed great and courteous interest as Naud led them through
the deep vaults, commenting on certain devices, remarking with
delight when archaic weapons revealed a shared ancestry.
Most of the kinebrach weapons on display didn’t resemble
weapons at all. Boxes, odd trinkets, rings, hoops. Naud clearly
expected the Imperials to ask questions about the devices, and
betray their warmongering appetites, but Horus and his officers
affected disinterest. In truth, they were uneasy in the society of
the indentured alien.
(they did this to gauge the imperium's lust for war/level of corruption.)

>its an armoury
>a vault
>protected by curators/powerfields

Also:regarding the blade

‘The kinebrach have never been able to explain it
to us. It is a factor of the forging process that defies technical
evaluation.’
‘Like a curse?’ prompted Sindermann. ‘An enchantment?’
To Sindermann’s surprise,
Naud replied, ‘I suppose that is how you could describe it, iterator.’

the fact they cant explain it in technical terms leads me to believe its creation is somewhat warp based, though admittedly this is not conclusive to its allegiance to Nurgle, and i guess it was just an assumption on my part due to the fact its highly probable that the blade is a symbiosis of warp and reality, the fact temba first used it and how it uses poisons.

and COTE, i was under the impression that though they all fought fought with each other, there was only true enmity between nurgle and Tzeentch and Khorne vs Slaanesh and Tzeentch.


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