# What the hell is going on with BL?



## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Had a look at the New Release page over on BL. Of the 24 books on the first page, there are only three new titles, of which only one appears to be a full novel, _Tech-Priest_. Some of these re-releases are not even that old. Even on the second page most of them are shorts, collections of older stories, or wallpapers. Something is not right over there if all they can churn at the moment is re-releases.


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## Freakytah (Nov 20, 2009)

Yeah that whole site is getting very difficult to navigate. It's hard for me to tell what's new vs what's just repackaged shorts. The last HH novel I read was The Damnation of Pythos and I can't even tell if there's another actual HH novel to read. 

There was a time I couldn't read the books fast enough, and they were all good. The quality level seems to have dropped very rapidly over the last few years, which is unfortunate to me because the books are what I enjoy most since I don't play the tabletop game.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Oh, another thread about the disappointment that is the Black Library?

EDIT: this is a sarcastic remark intended to further belittle BL's (failing) efforts.


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## Vitarus (Apr 9, 2012)

Maybe if BL stopped being disappointing the threads about it would stop.


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## Stephen74 (Oct 1, 2010)

This is GW worlds business model, spam you with crap. Quantity not Quality is their tag line.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Stephen74 said:


> This is GW worlds business model, spam you with crap. Quantity not Quality is their tag line.


Okay, find me a miniatures line with better quality models than GW that aren't 'spamming you with crap'.

Say what you like about GW, their quality of stuff is _really high_, it's just that the price for it is exponential rather than incremental which people would expect. I'd gladly, _gladly_ pay more for GW models than any other models. Black Library, sure, I hear that it's gone to hell in a handbasket, but that's not enough to make sweeping statements about GW as a whole.

Sorry to drag the models into a BL thread, but the above statement is plain wrong.


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## Stephen74 (Oct 1, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> Okay, find me a miniatures line with better quality models than GW that aren't 'spamming you with crap'.
> 
> Say what you like about GW, their quality of stuff is _really high_, it's just that the price for it is exponential rather than incremental which people would expect. I'd gladly, _gladly_ pay more for GW models than any other models. Black Library, sure, I hear that it's gone to hell in a handbasket, but that's not enough to make sweeping statements about GW as a whole.
> 
> Sorry to drag the models into a BL thread, but the above statement is plain wrong.


No it isn't wrong. 
I'll agree the models are high quality, but look at what else they do and you'll see they put a lot of stuff out there that isn't great, that doesn't stand the test of time, that is only designed to achieve one thing, a cash injection as all the fan boys buy up the latest offering and then a couple of years down the line, you never see it again except on some dusty shelf in a warehouse waiting for a troll to fill a once in a blue moon internet order. 

Even with their good stuff it's spammed out. You barely get time to build an army before a new version of it is released these days and reinventing the rules all the damn time. How many versions of WHFB magic have there been now? Not to mention the massive price hikes. You lot are getting ripped off all the time but you refuse to see it.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Khorne's Fist said:


> Had a look at the New Release page over on BL. Of the 24 books on the first page, there are only three new titles, of which only one appears to be a full novel, _Tech-Priest_. Some of these re-releases are not even that old. Even on the second page most of them are shorts, collections of older stories, or wallpapers. Something is not right over there if all they can churn at the moment is re-releases.


My best guess is that the authors are getting burned out. Also I'd love to see the eisenhorn series re printed.


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## Squire (Jan 15, 2013)

Some time ago I was in Waterstones looking out for a new HH book I'd heard was recently released, wondering if it was one of the ones on the shelf or they just didn't have it. I made the mistake of going to the BL site on my phone and stood there for ages getting more and more confused until I decided it mustn't have been released yet

When I got home later and looked it up it turned out the book was a limited edition novella so wouldn't have been there anyway. I wasn't impressed


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## Stephen74 (Oct 1, 2010)

I've said before that the BL website is shockingly bad.
They should have one point of reference for each title. You look up, for example, Horus Rising and it should return listing for that Title with all the various format options listed underneath. Not 3 listings with multiple options under each one. 

They should also organise series better so people know what the hell goes with what because at the moment I doubt anyone, even BL, has a Scooby doos about what goes with what without having to look up some reference sheet.

Complete shambles.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

This isn't really a website issue, it's the fact that they are re-releasing books that are barely a year or two old, with next to no new content on the first two pages. There's something going on with the writers, wether it's some sort of dispute with GW or not. We're going through the leanest period I can remember regarding new releases.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

they must be noticing this no ? I mean there are no new books, the forums are dead, I guess the time of ending is close, also for BL


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## Goochman70 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah the books are a mess and the minis are a mess too.
Sorry for bringing the subject back but GW is supposed to own FW and still they can't get together and work on a regular range of products that we the customers can use in both games. 
Example, the mechanicum maniples.
FW had one for HH and GW released one for 40k that looks like the robot from lost in space. 
Wtf. 

Brother G


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## Goochman70 (Jan 10, 2012)

And I'm not too impressed with the twist BL is giving the HH. Ferus Manus can get killed but Lorgar Grimnar can hold a Warhound Titan from stepping on him and Angron?
Come on! !!!!!
Conrad can kill thousands of astares but Dorn gets killed by a few in the bridge of a starship? 
Really? 

Brother G


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

GW and BL are a failure of a business. I feel bad for those who wasted their creativity for these bastards. The Heresy was definitely something that could have pushed the 40k universe and even Warhammer as a pinnacle success with the top successful series of the same genre. 

They made something that could have been a masterpiece and walked all over it.


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## Goochman70 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah, you can see that a mile away. They keep feeding the press that they GW is at the same level as FW and is all bs. Anyone can see they are not telling the truth. 
They have the biggest he said she said argument going on in the story of gaming companies. 
One day all this stuff is going to come back and backfire on all of them and you'll see that they will loose everything, at that point I'll like to see them and ask them if it was worth it. 

Brother G


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Goochman70 said:


> And I'm not too impressed with the twist BL is giving the HH. Ferus Manus can get killed but Lorgar Grimnar can hold a Warhound Titan from stepping on him and Angron?
> Come on! !!!!!
> Conrad can kill thousands of astares but Dorn gets killed by a few in the bridge of a starship?
> Really?


Er...

Have you actually, y'know, read the books? Or know what 40k fluff is at all?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

This whole discussion is amusing and pointless. 

If you don't like the books, stop buying them like so many already have. Me included. It doesn't really make you appear any smarter to continue crapping on about how much they supposedly suck. 

Ditto the models. You don't like them? Follow the trend and jump ship to another system. I think they've gotten better in the last few years and the game has improved surprisingly well for gw's shift in priorities. 

At the end of the day, nobody forces you to buy any of this.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Serpion5 said:


> This whole discussion is amusing and pointless.
> 
> If you don't like the books, stop buying them like so many already have. Me included. It doesn't really make you appear any smarter to continue crapping on about how much they supposedly suck.
> 
> ...


This³.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

Serpion5 said:


> This whole discussion is amusing and pointless.
> 
> If you don't like the books, stop buying them like so many already have. Me included. It doesn't really make you appear any smarter to continue crapping on about how much they supposedly suck.
> 
> ...


yeah +1 on this.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> This whole discussion is amusing and pointless.


While others have decided to discuss what they perceive as a lack of quality, I started the thread to discuss the lack of anything new coming from BL, whatever the quality, and the fact that it appears there could be some serious problems bubbling away in the background.


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## Goochman70 (Jan 10, 2012)

MidnightSun said:


> Er...
> 
> Have you actually, y'know, read the books? Or know what 40k fluff is at all?


Er.... 
Yeah, I guess now you are going to tell me that you have a phd in the Horus Heresy and all the 40k history settings. 
I've been following gw for a little over 25yrs and read plenty of old books even worked for the company. 
So experience I got, and please don't talk to me like I don't know what I'm talking about. 
Thanks

Brother G


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## Stephen74 (Oct 1, 2010)

Khorne's Fist said:


> This isn't really a website issue, it's the fact that they are re-releasing books that are barely a year or two old, with next to no new content on the first two pages. There's something going on with the writers, wether it's some sort of dispute with GW or not. We're going through the leanest period I can remember regarding new releases.


You may also note that these re-releases are often a few quid more than the original release as well.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Khorne's Fist said:


> While others have decided to discuss what they perceive as a lack of quality, I started the thread to discuss the lack of anything new coming from BL, whatever the quality, and the fact that it appears there could be some serious problems bubbling away in the background.


I know, and I can honestly see that being the case. 

But the quality debate is one that you cannot really bring a resolution to except to stop buying the product if you don't like it.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

If GW or BL ever decide to do some research about why people have progressively walked away I think they would benefit from reading several threads and websites about why.

I think the lack of fluff this year is very interesting. There have been several debates about quality of fluff. But in this instance its lack of quantity. Its interesting when looking at other threads the differences. There was always two outlooks when looking at the change of type of quality in the novels. There was the obvious lack of quality which could also be looked at as a step away from traditional aspects of the fluff. Then there was perhaps a move to newer fluff for newer fans. Even how the fluff is portrayed with short stories and limited edition could attest to trying to pick up a new population of fans.

However, it seems like a lack of everything including the main core of many of the series and major writers. It really appears like GW is dying/cutting back. Especially considering End of Times and the selling out of certain models.


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## PlayingWithHammers (Nov 7, 2013)

Although long term future is certainly a discussion, at the very least a web shop should offer filters and sort options for the following:

- New books
- New e-books
- New CDs
- Reprints

Unlike many here I want to keep buying stuff directly, but the shop is so bad ive literally missed new books in amongst all the gumpf.

Knowing corporate IT systems, the reason the shop is unable to handle the new formats and reprints and is as bad to navigate as it is that the development budget is zero. They've slashed BL budgets. This would also explain the lack of new material. They can't commission much.


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## Stephen74 (Oct 1, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> Er...
> 
> Have you actually, y'know, read the books? Or know what 40k fluff is at all?


He's 100% right about lorgar. That battle was an abomination in writing. All it was missing was a line saying he was wearing his red underwear on the outside of his armour. Pulling gunships out of the air like king long and fighting titans single handedly. This took Primarchs well in to the utterly ridiculous. It was embarrassing to read.


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## Brobaddon (Jul 14, 2012)

> Pulling gunships out of the air like king long and fighting titans single handedly. This took Primarchs well in to the utterly ridiculous. It was embarrassing to read.


Why you mean, genetically altered demi-gods that came from Emperor's own dna and chaos god's warp-sorcery? My god, how could such a puny being ever lift a gunship. 

There has been a lot of examples about primarchs's incredible feats of strength even before Bertrayer, such as Vulkan flipping and tossing around rhino's and predator tanks. ( think it was an audio-drama ) and Fulgrim punching through Avatar of Khaine's head with a little bit of effort. It's not like this was something new or outside the limits of primarch's capabilities. If you think that way, then you haven't been paying attention. 

Sides, Lorgar was nearly killed by a Titan and Angron tore basically all of his muscles while squealing like a pig when holding just one leg. It's not like he lifted an entire titan. 

As for the topic, I think this is the perfect opportunity to re-read some of the best old titles, or some new ones that you missed. Im doing the same with Gaunt Ghost's series ( embarassed to admit I dismissed it before but am now exploding from joy reading this masterpiece ) And true, there's nothing to really read right now aside Deathfire and few of Dark Angels short stories which I'm not interested in.


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## Stephen74 (Oct 1, 2010)

If these primarchs should be able to do all the stuff that you lot claim, why need space marines at all huh? surely they can single handedly defeat whole star systems before breakfast. sheesh. If its this easy to please no wonder the standard of the books have gone down the shitter.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Stephen74 said:


> If these primarchs should be able to do all the stuff that you lot claim, why need space marines at all huh? surely they can single handedly defeat whole star systems before breakfast.


SMs were created because the primarchs were snatched away. In _Deliverance Lost _it's made clear they were a second thought for the Emperor, and he decided he needed to make thousands of these lesser versions to replace the 20 masterpieces. So the fact he ended up with both SMs and primarchs is pretty much just a happy coincidence.


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## Scrad (Apr 4, 2014)

Not to mention that carving out an empire in the stars would take a bit of time if it were 20 planets at a time.. Plenty of battles and compliances that didn't require a primarch but did require a well trained army or force.


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## Goochman70 (Jan 10, 2012)

Scrad said:


> Not to mention that carving out an empire in the stars would take a bit of time if it were 20 planets at a time.. Plenty of battles and compliances that didn't require a primarch but did require a well trained army or force.


Yeah and please don't forget that Rogal Dorn didn't get to live in a single incursion against a battle barge of the iron hands I believed, he made it all the way to the bride but got waxed there.
WTFO. Kunrad can kill thousands of Dark Angeles and survived but Dorn gets killed! !!! And he was accompanied by his best. 
WTFO! 
Can we say bullshit!!!!
Black Library has a very sick sense of humor and it's been showing up on this novels. They have changed the Heresy how they see fit and sometimes I feel it's not fitting well. 
I really hope it doesn't come and bite them in the ass at the end result. 
Brother G


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## Goochman70 (Jan 10, 2012)

The only loyalist primarch that has any kind of godlike power that BL has shown is Vulkan, he can't die but the mo'fo is crazier than a mountain goat. 

Brother G


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

Goochman70 said:


> The only loyalist primarch that has any kind of godlike power that BL has shown is Vulkan, he can't die but the mo'fo is crazier than a mountain goat.
> 
> Brother G



Guilliman survived in the vacuum of space for an incredible amount of time in 'Know No Fear" as one other example.

And his mental abilities displayed in both that and The Unremembered Empire are incredible as well, definitely far beyond normal human range. I did think the fight with Curze got pretty carried away though. He seemed OP, for sure. I'm sure Guilliman, the Lion, AND a crazed Vulkan could have taken him out just fine....especially since a squad of legionaries put Guilliman in the hospital for a couple days with some bolter fire... Some discrepancies for sure. But if you consider the size and scope of the project these authors have embarked upon, it is easy to see why some things don't always stay as consistent as we would like.

Also, I don't think it has ever been said what, _exactly_, happened to Dorn. All they know is that he went missing, and parts of his armor and body were found, but nothing close to the whole thing. I believe it is widely suspected, and accepted, that something much worse than a Bridge's honor guard or some such took him out.

Continuing off of Khorne's last comment about why the legions were needed, 20 Primarchs would not have been able to hold the same kind of formidable garrison on conquered worlds, either. They needed armies, even with demi-god leaders. It was because of their power and awe that the Legions revered them so highly, looked up to them so much.

-----

Anyway, I am glad to see re-releases, but not fi they are more expensive than before. That seems kind of weird. They have been producing a lot of books in recent years but I have only been reading the novels on a regular basis for about that time so I'm not sure if it has been significantly less than prior times. We don't know GW's ultimate goals since they don't like to communicate with us for some reason. They may purposefully be trying to create a smaller more niche consumer base than one that is as big as possible. the quality of their stuff has become _vastly_ better recently, but indeed too expensive for most. They have released a lot of those 'space marines battles' novels than I thought they would do, the horus hersy novels I think have been coming out the same pace as usual? How many of those usually come out each year since it began? I suppose I could look it up.

The point being, maybe they are focusing on quality over quantity, even in the BL sector. Quality in stories is of course, very subjective though, as we can see by this thread. There's always been varying degrees of BL novels.

I know some of the big BL authors have been doing other projects lately. Abnett especially, with his screenplays and such.

Perhaps it also has something to do with this whole changing of Warhammer fantasy thing? I do not keep up with Fantasy much but Age of Sigmar definitely seems to involve a lot of fluff changes, and this may have put a damper on the number of releases for that section this year.


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## Mob (Nov 14, 2010)

Stack 'em low, sell 'em high. Synergise with the models. Create the idea that the novels have inherent value as objects well above any reasonable price. Make higher profit on lower overall sales, which also brings down your overheads even as you increase the 'quality' of the novels by making them hardcover and adding four drawings.


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## Vitarus (Apr 9, 2012)

I can't wait for the first Ruinous Edition to come out. That'll be a $100 novella, but it'll have blood and shit on the cover, so well worth it.

And the ultimate: The Imperial Edition. A $100 Quick Read with "I'm the Emperor of Mankind, and I approve of this story." on the cover. I mean, how can you argue with the Emperor???


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

I thought about this some more. The BL forums don't have near the traffic they used to a year or two ago. I think videogames might be killing tabletop soon. You can be just as creative with many of them now, and they cost way less. And you can find people to play the same game with much easier thanks to online gaming. Since GW and BL budgets are tied together, and their core authors are busy with other projects, it makes sense for fewer releases.


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## Mob (Nov 14, 2010)

I doubt they'll let tabletop die, they're a model company. And they spent a year or two there wrecking all their video game rep in pursuit of quick cashflow. Credibility in that sector is only now just starting to show any glimmer of showing up again, and there's still a few hurdles to clear (and stinkers to come out).

If the pattern of user interest on the Lex has any anecdotal bearing, the DoW games brought a load of people into the community.

I think we've gotten as close as we can get to working out what's going on with the current info we have. Consensus seems to be that increasing mandate from on high about content synergy and the pursuit of the 'as much profit for as little outlay' strategy is responsible for all the nonsense.


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