# The Angels Sanguine -



## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Any ideas as to why the Angels Sanguine don't remove their masks?

This has probably been brought up numerous times on here, so I apologize, but it has been bugging me lately as I have recently finished an Angels Sanguine army and have been reading a lot into the fluff. 

My guess is the whole "vampire blood drinker" rumours and background has something to do with it, or they were disfigured by the warp. Any other ideas, mine are kind of goofy


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## jasonbob (Sep 6, 2010)

Maybe the planet they get all of their aspirants from has a population of really ugly people


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I think there's a chance of cloning going on, they won't remove their helmets because they all look exactly the same underneath.


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## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

Most Space Marines (Mainly Blood angels descendants) look similar anyway.

But anyway I believe it is that their fangs have grown so large that they are largely disfigured.

That or its some sort of honour thing.


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Some kind of Nosferatu thing going on, perhaps.


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## Medic Marine (Jun 28, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> I think there's a chance of cloning going on, they won't remove their helmets because they all look exactly the same underneath.


Wouldn't that have solved the BA recruiting issue in the third book? 

I figured they had big teeth, weird eyes or look like bats...


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Good point, hadn't considered that!


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## Medic Marine (Jun 28, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> Good point, hadn't considered that!


 turn that frown upside down mister! Maybe they shun the company of others so much that they refuse to give the plans to the BA fearing what fabious bile did... the blood fiends and all... is just a thought... its all fluff so no right or wrong.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

It's cool, i was thumbing through the Codex just today when the thought occurred to me about them being clones. Didn't think of the books though, so back to the drawing board.
If Bile can't get the cloning process right what hope have they got?
And, would they even consider the idea after what happened to the Raven Guard?


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## cragnes417 (Jul 22, 2010)

I thought they dont remove there mask since they maybe cyborg dude's like the iron hands since if you look at lexicanium they say "It is said that beneath the gleaming masks of the Angels Sanguine is a will of iron; but the truth is somewhat darker"


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

It would be awesome if they were cyborg, but cloning sounds more likely simply because when you buy a BA box of Death Co or Sanguinary Guard, all the bare heads look exactly the same, which was somewhat annoying from a modeling perspective


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

in some ways the mask i find gives the warrior a more unhuman chill about them.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah I would definitely agree with you there, especially since they are made to look like human faces, but show no emotion whatsoever. Kind of like a Black Library book I read that involved Necrons, the IG that came across them expressed how chilling it was to see the blank faces and cold, glowing eyes.


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## Mathai (Sep 1, 2010)

I like to put helmets on as many of my units as possible for that very reason. I like having them look uniform like that I guess, and one without a helmet and another with his own hairdo just looks funny to me.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Not to mention painting skin can be a bitch at times


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

The problem with the Raven Guard cloning process (or even just the geneseed implantation process) is that it was hyper-accelerated. This trying to make Marines too quickly is what caused the rampant mutation and psychosis of the Raven Guard troops seen in the Heresy after Isstvaan V. If the Angels of Absolution are using any sort of cloning technique then they wouldn't be under such pressure to build their numbers so quickly, would they? Even if they are cloning quickly, then all they need is a Chapter-sized number, not a Legion-sized number.
Besides, why would a Chapter resort to cloning? Is there a problem with the populations that they recruit from? Then surely they could find/be given another, depending on whether the Chapter wants to publicise what the problems are. It seems to my mind (bearing in mind I haven't read the BA books) that the cyborg/overt machine augmentation is the more likely reason. It might even be that they aren't actually organic-minded anymore, rather they are some sort of AI; maybe the Mechanicus is involved some way, or maybe the Chapter trapped itself on a dark road it can't get off in trying to rid itself of the BA's curse.

GFP


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## Tossidin (Dec 10, 2008)

For some reason I have always thought they were disfigured by the gene curse, turning more vampiric in looks, as is kind of a "theme" with the blood angels and thei succesors. 
Also, I am not thinking that they are cyborg, as in the BA book "Red fury", we see Sentikan (the chaper master) in a hood, speaking with a normal voice. Of course this doesn't prove anything, but I had thought that if they were cyborg / machine / AI etc., we would have gotten a hint about it. 
It must be something serious though, as Sentikan threatens Corbulo with killing him where he stands if he removes the mask of a dead brother. 
Rafen saying, in the second book, that no blood angel would ever even utter the word "vampire" makes me think it could be the serious reason. 

Not that there are any good connections, but these are my thoughts, hopefuly some food for thought at the least


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

It could be that to try and keep the AI-Marines in check, all of the Chapter's high offices are taken by fully organic Astartes; at least those whose only aumentations have been physical, rather than mental/neurological (at least neurological as it pertains to actually having the brain/personality replaced or significantly enhanced by machine). So, the 'face' of the Chapter can walk around without a helmet and interact fully with anyone but has as one of their main duties stopping others from stumbling on the secret. It very well may be that the Astartes of the Angels of Absolution have become grotesque vampire-a-likes, but wouldn't that extend to the Chapter Master? It does raise the issue that, rather than the CM being elevated due to his prowess and knowledge, it is the fact that he is less mutated than his Battle Brothers that gives him the leadership. It might instead be that the CM is only represented by a less mutated Marine, with the _actual_ CM leading from the shadows, using the non-mutant as a 'mouthpiece' of sorts.
I really like the 'overrun by AI' idea myself. It gives an added wrinkle to a Chapter who everyone might assume is falling to the BA's curse. It's not, 'Aaargh, Vampires!'- instead it's, 'Aaaargh, Vampires!' BAM, they're _robots_ instead!

GFP


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Now if they cannot remove their helmets, is it ONLY the Angels Sanguine, or the entire chapter? When it comes to miniatures, it would seem that it would only be successor chapters affected, as there are bare heads on the BA sprues which look completely normal - more so than most of bare head bits. They also all look exactly the same, which could go back to what was mentioned earlier about Space Marines all looking similiar anyways because they follow the looks of their Primarch. However, why would only a select group be affected while others are fine? This would be translated over to the AI theory as well, the head bits do not seem heavily augmented at all, but if it were neurological, then it may not be visible to the naked eye. But then if it weren't visible, then why not remove masks? GW seems to be mind fucking us. The bits may just be something they threw in there for the hell of it, but the miniatures/special characters are not all wearing helmets, so it doesn't add up.


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## Tossidin (Dec 10, 2008)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> It could be that to try and keep the AI-Marines in check, all of the Chapter's high offices are taken by fully organic Astartes; at least those whose only aumentations have been physical, rather than mental/neurological (at least neurological as it pertains to actually having the brain/personality replaced or significantly enhanced by machine). So, the 'face' of the Chapter can walk around without a helmet and interact fully with anyone but has as one of their main duties stopping others from stumbling on the secret. It very well may be that the Astartes of the Angels of Absolution (Sanguine?) have become grotesque vampire-a-likes, but wouldn't that extend to the Chapter Master?


In Red fury, as I mentioned, Sentikan (the CM), wears a hood that (which I should have mentioned) hides all his features and face. He is hidden like everyone else in the chapter, so I don't really think your theory, though interesting, fits.

@ Angelus Censura

The Angel sanguine are the only BA succesor chapter known to never remove their helmet (or at least hide their face), and Red Fury makes it seem like they are the only ones. (Main character wondering why, Flesh tearers mocking them about removing the helmets)

"However, why would only a select group be affected while others are fine?"
Actually I would think that only a chapter(s) would be affected, as they may have done something / played with / treated the blood or gene transfer differently. Or something completely different? I am not led to believe this would be translated easily to your AI theory.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Tossidin said:


> @ Angelus Censura
> 
> The Angel sanguine are the only BA succesor chapter known to never remove their helmet (or at least hide their face), and Red Fury makes it seem like they are the only ones. (Main character wondering why, Flesh tearers mocking them about removing the helmets)
> 
> ...


 
I'm not sure about the whole AI thing as this thread is the first I've heard of it, I have however heard a lot about the Vampire theory, I just figured all Blood Angels would be affected vs just a sucessor Chapter. But it didn't occur to me that each successor Chapter recruits in their own way and would in turn handle the implantation of the gene seed differently. As cool as the AI is, if all we have to go off of is a Lexicanum article stating "will of iron", I highly doubt that is enough evidence to support some sort of neurological implantation. It could simply be just a metaphor or choice of words from the author.So my guess lies with the Vampire theory. Which, if following old legends, Vampires cannot handle sunlight, which could translate over to them not removing their masks to avoid the light. Also, if their fangs have become grotesquely long, their skin pale, and eyes black, that would make sense as well - if they were to be seen without helmets like that, the Inquisition would shit their pants


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

This is a real stretch of the imagination but maybe it's a similar sort of thing to Vampire-The Masquerade (from back when it was good and not all twilighty).
Each of the BA successors exhibit different aspects of vampire mythology.
The BA are more like Anne Rice vamps, good looking with a sense of the aesthetic.
Flesh Tearers and Knights of Blood represent the Dusk Til Dawn types, all blood thirsty and savage.
Then the Angels Sanguine come in, Nosferatu types who would rather hide their disfigurement in case the Inquisition starts snooping.


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## Tossidin (Dec 10, 2008)

Angelus Censura said:


> I'm not sure about the whole AI thing as this thread is the first I've heard of it, I have however heard a lot about the Vampire theory, I just figured all Blood Angels would be affected vs just a sucessor Chapter. But it didn't occur to me that each successor Chapter recruits in their own way and would in turn handle the implantation of the gene seed differently. As cool as the AI is, if all we have to go off of is a Lexicanum article stating "will of iron", I highly doubt that is enough evidence to support some sort of neurological implantation. It could simply be just a metaphor or choice of words from the author.So my guess lies with the Vampire theory. Which, if following old legends, Vampires cannot handle sunlight, which could translate over to them not removing their masks to avoid the light. Also, if their fangs have become grotesquely long, their skin pale, and eyes black, that would make sense as well - if they were to be seen without helmets like that, the Inquisition would shit their pants


This is my belief too, and it really makes sence that they wouldn't want to show disfigurement (Like DA fallen in a way?) as the Inquisition would be all over them.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah haha, I would love there to be a book written about the Angels Sanguine kicking the asses of the Inquisition in this sort of situation. A member of the Inquisition sees the face of an Angels Sanguine marine, the marine kills the inquisition member to keep him quiet, the Inquisition finds out anyway and try to wipe the Angels Sanguine out, the Sanguine completely annihilate them and they keep it as a dark secret from the rest of the Imperium. The Inquisition bugs me haha


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I only mentioned the CM being different from the rest of the Chapter because someone mentioned that he wore a hood, not a helmet, and I assumed the idea behind telling me that was that his face could clearly be seen. As it is still as hidden as his helmeted brethren, then you can discount the idea of a normal 'face' for the mutated CM.
As for whether it is Absolution or Sanguine, the OP asked about Absolution didn't he, or have I got mixed-up halfway through the thread?

GFP


+++++++EDIT+++++++
Where the bloody hell did I get Absolution from?
Where I ask you?
WHERE?


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

The Angels of Absolution are a Dark Angels Chapter while the Angels Sanguine are a Blood Angels chapter. Dark Angels wear hoods out of shame for their bretheran that have become The Fallen, as to why the Angels Sanguine wear masks and refuse to take them off in the presence other others outside their fortress monastary is still unknown.

[EDIT]Hahaha no worries, I was wondering where the whole Angels of Absolution came into play lol, you had me second guessing if they were really Dark Angels like I had thought haha


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## Lord Mephiston (Sep 16, 2010)

Without giving away any spoilers, I must say that the story "The Blood Of Angels" by C S Goto in The Book Of Blood should answer your questions:grin: 

Lets just say that they're not the most handsome bunch. Something to do with their recruiting world's citizenry's naughty deeds...


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Awesome! I will have to add that one to my "Shit I have to buy, but probably shouldn't spend the money on" list. Does it go into the details of the recruiting process and more intricate details of their structure and such? I like it when BL books talk more about the chapter itself while leading up to a battle. I read an awesome Space Wolves book that went into the recruiting process from tribes, how the recruits are chosen, and then the implantation of the geneseed. I wish I could remember the name of the book, that was one I could read a second time.


By the way, here is a link to a blog my buddy and I are in the process of starting up if anyone wants to check it out. It doesn't have a whole lot of anything on it yet, but this will be where I post more fluff, the stages of my Angels Sanguine army completion, and some other stuff. PM me if you have any suggestions or comments of things you would like to see done, or things that could be changed about the blog itself - sorry for going off topic, but it sounds as though that book will answer the Topic's question and settle all debates.

www.shakennotstunned.blogspot.com


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## sethgabriel1990 (Sep 21, 2010)

i didnt know anything about this!! god im ignorant lol intersting ideas though


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I think it's just the geneseed mutation gone too far. the AI thing sounds completely out of the blue with no real back up to be honest apart from one saying that is used to describe most marines. Blood Angels and their successors are known to be physically better looking than most other chapters, if the Angels Sanguine were to be physically deformed, have large fangs and general vampy looking, it would mar them from the Blood Angel's legacy and probably cause them to be shunned by their brethren.


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

Which would cause them to hide their faces from their bretheran and maintain the stereotype that the BA are the best looking chapter.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

or maybe they are all dracula under there?


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

There probably mutated from there time in the warp, you remember what having half his face paralysed did to Tycho.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

What time in the warp?
I'm sure they spend a lot of time there travelling around the place but no more than any other BA successor, why would they react differently?


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## Angelus Censura (Oct 11, 2010)

The only reason that makes sense to me is a mutation of their gene seed - which is mentioned in the codex as the reason for the red thirst and rage rules.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Angelus Censura said:


> Which would cause them to hide their faces from their bretheran and maintain the stereotype that the BA are the best looking chapter.


Exactly. Plus Don't the Angels Sanguine Have much Higher numbers of Death Company than the other chapters? Or was that a different one? If it's them I'd say it'd be geneseed mutation then.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I just wanted to point out that the AI thing IS JUST SOMETHING THAT I SURMISED. It isn't based on any fluff, it was just something that I came up with as a suggested answer to the question of why this particular Chapter don't remove their helmets, inspired by the supplied quote that the Astartes 'have a will of iron, but their helmets hide an even darker truth'.
Further debasement of the geneseed, so that the Battle Brothers are more feral/Vampirel looking certainly fits with the BA theme.

GFP


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

I would put my money on there being something with cloning of the geneseed etc, aking to the Lamenters.

The Lamenters are a Blood Angels successor chapter that has found a cure for the Black Rage, the psychic imprint Sanguinius left upon his Legion at the moment of his death. 

It is rumored to come through use of extensive cloning.

The known facts about cloning in the 40k Universe (if, I believe it was the Last Chancers series, is to be trusted) is that it leaves the 'clone' with no soul. I'm thinking of the project to create the super-humans based off of some Imperial hero type. Macharius maybe? 

Anyways, this has left the Lamenters with chronic bad luck. They have never won a noted engagement, and are currently nowhere to be found (I believe there are also a dedicated part of the Blood Angels searching for them, due to them curing the Red Thirst and Black Rage.) 

Keeping in mind that the Angels Sanguine are the backers of Mephiston, who is trying to find a cure for it all, believing there is a cure.

They could most definately have tampered with something they shouldn't have, and have become disfigured for it, such as accenting certain unwanted features as previously mentioned.

The opposite of this would be the Flesh Tearers, who welcome the Red Thirst and see it as a gift (Khorne Berzerkers anyone?) with the Blood Angels split pretty much down the middle.


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## sethgabriel1990 (Sep 21, 2010)

Flesh Tearers are awesome! they are kinda like khorne berserkers Cruor, but theyre not (as) evil! embrace the thirst! you could argue that the space wolves are the same, letting the wolf side of them come out in battle


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