# Versus Eldar Wraithguard



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

*Versus: Week Twenty-Two​*
They're big, tough and scary, well-armed and well-armored...they're a little slow, but crammed into a transport and/or paired up with some farseers they're more effective...and sometimes they team up with their big brother the Wraithlord

So how do you deal with the semi-undead-space-elf-robot-golem-warriors known as Wraithguard?


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

melta guns and plasma guns do the trick. This scenario is exactly why i have three squads of plague marines with two melta guns and three with two plasma guns. some times the problem isn't armored vehicles or monstrous creatures, but sizable squads of high toughness gribblies. the combo gives my squads a reliable chance to do enough wounds to make a difference. in addition, I keep Puggsley around to discourage the wraithlord and his mates from coming too close. his plasma cannon gives me the ability to cause a lot of hurt with one shot.


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

once agin loads of special weapons, say chaos chosen five plasma guns rapid fire, should do the trick. Or of cousre if its eldar vs eldar then fire dragons, 10 meltas ouch.


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

Rending would probably do the trick quite nicely, as would sniper weapons. They are also not that great in combat despite their high str and T, so some high-strength monstrous creatures, like C'tan, Carnifex or Soul Grinders, could all do the job, you just have to risk a potentially lethal round of fire...


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## Sieg (Dec 3, 2007)

Just a reminder that with 5th edition making people use more troops, you can probably expect to see a few list trying to use 10 man troops choices of these guys. 

I say just stay out of range. Their guns only have a 12" range.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

9 Necron Heavy Destroyers and 15 Destroyers would do it. Lots of high S, low AP, shots from far away, and they can keep their distance as well.


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Yeah long ranged shooting seems to be the major weakness. But you already knew not to get within 12" right? With the new rules I think you're gonna be wanting to take a plasma cannon against them. 3+ to wound then dead for possibly 2-4 models if you get a direct (lucky) hit.


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## shas'o7 (May 17, 2008)

You could just wait for them to fail that roll, so they have to stand there. Then you can CC them to death. Even Fire Warriors could kill small squads, Kroot would own.


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Good luck finding an eldar player who lets his wraithguard go it solo without a psyker of some kind.


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Gotta love them, big strong, have Fawesome weapons.... wait what? This thread is to know how to kill them? YOU BASTARDS!!!! *poked by a shotgun* 

Ahem, yes well these guys are really hard to kill. The best way honestly is to get into combat. The Farseer and the Warlock can't protect them for long :laugh:... *sighs*. The powerfist would eat up these guys in a jiffy. Even though they have a higher S then a marine, and a good T for a Elite/Troop, they still only get 1 attack each. And the warlock too, but it's nothing dangerous. 

While shooting, anything with a good S + AP level and distance should take them out, eventually. Plasmas would do wonders against these guys, whether it's an in-your-face plasma pistol, rapid firing plasma gun or a template plasma cannon. Generally, anything single shotted could do something, but if the Wraithguard player had a warlock and farseer(and had any idea what he's doing with them), chances are your not going to get them that much. 

And yes shaso, if your playing Wriathguard, you be an idiot NOT to take a warlock. Not nessessary for the conceal power, but the auto pass for the Wriathsight test (and in Iyanden Eldar, it's nessessary to have a spiritseer )


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Vindicator, the fix-all tank!


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## stormshroud (Apr 27, 2007)

Vindicare assassin to take out the Warlock and then as has been said use longer range firepower to take them down.


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## shas'o7 (May 17, 2008)

Steel Nathan said:


> And yes shaso, if your playing Wriathguard, you be an idiot NOT to take a warlock. Not nessessary for the conceal power, but the auto pass for the Wriathsight test (and in Iyanden Eldar, it's nessessary to have a spiritseer )


Really? The Guys I play with don't use the warlock too much. Maybe they're just crazy? 

If they do take the warlock though, he won't be too hard to kill. Eventully they'll take him as a casualty instead of loosing a lot of wraithguard.


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## Sleedon (Jan 22, 2008)

It's quite simple. Like a lot of people said use cc but you have to use something that can have a high strenght or rending. I would try to use jump infantry or something that comes out of a tanks like termies out of a land raider crusader. 

Alternatively you can use long range low ap high strength guns i wouldnt use fire dragons because if you don't get all of the wraithguard the dragons will be dead next turn You really need something with like 24 range. For tau not railgun because it only has one shot.Go with ion cannon or rail rifles they would do the trick. Anything like that. Vindicadre would work but you would have to be careful. Pulse laser or prism cannon for eldar. Or you could just use more wraithguard with a farrseer support. Stuff like that long range more than one shot or blast and low ap high strength:victory:


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

shas'o7 said:


> Really? The Guys I play with don't use the warlock too much. Maybe they're just crazy?
> 
> If they do take the warlock though, he won't be too hard to kill. Eventully they'll take him as a casualty instead of loosing a lot of wraithguard.


Well to me they are too expensive to be left alone without a warlock of some kinds, hell I even make sure that my Wraithlords are "under the fluence" of pyskers. I almost cried the first time I failed a wriathsight test for my Wriathlord...(obviously I'm over reacting). 

And why kill the warlock? He happens to be the most important guy in that squad. But I guess it's a personal opinion and tactic. If it wins games the it's good I guess k:


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I've used a devastator squad all with plasma cannons against 7 of them and it worked brilliantly. the few that drifted too much hit the wraithlord near them and killed that too:biggrin:


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Bah. "Versus Wraithguard"?

Ignore them and focus on other parts of the eldar army, like those that are some kind of threat to you. Send in someone with a powerfist if you can be bothered.

Wraithguard are very rare because they are rubbish and the figures are expensive. As such, you may want to check their rules when you play them to make sure they don't have any nasty surprises because you will usually go for long stretches of time without seeing any, and you may forget that they exist. Don't worry though, they have no surprises at all.


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

They do have one surprise: Instant Death if you roll a 6 to wound

But I do agree with Someguy that you often won't see them thanks to *MASSIVE* overpricing of the models. If they were plastic I think you'd see them more often.


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

*sighs* wish I found that out before I decided to play Iyanden. Which is why it's best to get the Spirit Host to start off with, then work your way up (and which is why I decided to only use one squad of them... for Financial Reasons <.< >.> <.< >.>)


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Now imagine 30 wraithguard with concealing Spiritseers and a Farseer and Eldrad protecting them with fortune... Oh my, did they just double their survivability? :laugh:
¤
I know, its a huge point sink, but you are paying for something. Mass T6 models with power armour and 5+cover saves that get re-roles. And the best 12" gun in the game for a large unit. Oh! Almost forgot! THEY CAN RUN TO YOU NOW!!! no more slow wraithguard slogging across the board.
¤
Anyway, back to the Thread. Power Fists, Rending, EarthShakers, Multiple shot low AP guns, Lots of High S shots, anything short and your in for a bad day.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Desolatemm said:


> Now imagine 30 wraithguard with concealing Spiritseers and a Farseer and Eldrad protecting them with fortune... Oh my, did they just double their survivability? :laugh:
> ¤
> I know, its a huge point sink, but you are paying for something. Mass T6 models with power armour and 5+cover saves that get re-roles. And the best 12" gun in the game for a large unit. Oh! Almost forgot! THEY CAN RUN TO YOU NOW!!! no more slow wraithguard slogging across the board.
> ¤
> Anyway, back to the Thread. Power Fists, Rending, EarthShakers, Multiple shot low AP guns, Lots of High S shots, anything short and your in for a bad day.


And if I kill that one unit, I eviscerate your whole force. That task is easily achieved with 3 bassies and little else.


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Hmm, well that's 3 whole units which I would imagine are well spread out, and good luck with that scatter. You'd take out a fair few, definitely. But I don't think you'd manage all of them before they got within kill range. Plus, that lot would just be about half of 2000 points, so another 1000 points of eldar would be present to consider. I'd be thinking as many MCs as possible to back up would be lovely.


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## Changer of Ways (Jan 3, 2008)

Well as a CSM player, I can tell you how I've dealt with them in the past using my army.
I've seen them both marched and transported.
Neither choice utilizes Eldar's capabilities to their maximum in my humble opinion. If their weapons were 18" instead of 12" like shuriken catapults are, I'd say that they might be more of a threat; but I doubt even the new 'Run' rule will help them out enough to make them effective.
Run isn't reliable and the unit is still on foot, making it susceptible to being handled however a clever opponent wants to. 

When I deal with foot-slogging Wraithguard they usually get "Lashed" into a tight circle and then eat plasma cannons from my obliterators. Transported 'guard are a bit more difficult to handle, but the best way is to present a tempting target and then jump them with a hidden power fist after they've been drawn out of their vehicles. Five models aren't quite as scary as a full unit, but when transported their versatility multiplies.


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## Beaky (Dec 15, 2006)

These all work well for me:

-Rail Rifles and Ion Cannons work well.
-As do Plasma Rifles and Fusion Blasters.
-Rending Attacks are good. (genestealers are the bane of Wraith-guard/lords)
-Plasma of any sort.
-you could just ignore them, deal with them later.
-Big Monsters (avatar, hive tyrant, C'tan)
-Long-Range Tanks
-Lots of firepower


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

beenburned said:


> Hmm, well that's 3 whole units which I would imagine are well spread out, and good luck with that scatter. You'd take out a fair few, definitely. But I don't think you'd manage all of them before they got within kill range. Plus, that lot would just be about half of 2000 points, so another 1000 points of eldar would be present to consider. I'd be thinking as many MCs as possible to back up would be lovely.


yes that is 100 out 0f 2000 points, however, the bassies are closer to 500 out of 200 points, leaving many heavy weapons to deal with the rest. that is the basic problem with the uber unit of doom with the leader from hell, it is expensive, and a lot more fragile than the owning player wants it to be.


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## Dessel_Ordo (Jul 28, 2008)

I really like chaplains... with a 5 man veteran squad for killing damn near anything.
My current vet squad (with their MoS) (starving college student, forgive the fact that there is only one) can dish out, on the assault 8 regular s5 attacks (FC), 20 power wep attacks (maybe 21, I am considering giving my MoS a set of lightning claws, and just making it look like the crozius arcunum is hanging by the belt) and 4 powerfist, s10 attacks.
provided I can keep the 'guards distractd while the Vets get up close, that is bound to make them cry.

I have learned from experience that veteran marine squads make Eldar cry, the better shape the power weps are in the harder (albeit, for less time) the eldar cry.

the trick is, of course, distracting the guard for long enough (alternatively, hope to hell they run and fail epically (1 or 2))

and did I mention that MoS = litanies of hate = re-roll all failed to hit rolls... plus lighting claws get to re-roll all failed to hit rolls as well.

did I mention I like veteran marines...

back on topic, I normally keep a "throw away" squad armed with 2 flamers (cleanse and purify, gotta enjoy it while it lasts). The squad looks/seems/on paper is - menacing, and being bigger and flasheir (and always at the very front of my army) it tends to get attacked, by everything, yea, some hate is geared at other stuff, but about 1 turn b4 flamer range, these guys start to get the hate poured on to them. by the time they hit flamer range they would be in the wraithguards 12 inch range... so wraithguard go for the seemingly biggest threa, next turn (combat should still be live/immenent by now) I have my vets w/MoS charge into the combat/Wraithguard/whatever else I may need to CC-fuck, and kill


are there any holes in my logic here?


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

That might work against some Eldar players but personally I would shoot the Flamer squad with Dark Reapers, unless they were the only target for the Wraiths as I'm not really afraid of 6s to wound and then a 3+ save. I might lose a couple but I'd find your Veteran squad far more menacing. . .


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## Da Red Paintjob Grot (May 6, 2008)

Well, i make wraithlords lick my ball by using krak missiles.


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## coldstuff64 (Feb 11, 2008)

You should but some plasmas and meltas in a bunker and have them focus on the wraithguard, and have a sniper take out a spiritseer if there is one.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Dessel_Ordo said:


> I really like chaplains... with a 5 man veteran squad for killing damn near anything.
> My current vet squad (with their MoS) (starving college student, forgive the fact that there is only one) can dish out, on the assault 8 regular s5 attacks (FC), 20 power wep attacks (maybe 21, I am considering giving my MoS a set of lightning claws, and just making it look like the crozius arcunum is hanging by the belt) and 4 powerfist, s10 attacks.
> provided I can keep the 'guards distractd while the Vets get up close, that is bound to make them cry.
> 
> ...


Sound enough logic but there are a few mistakes. Furious chargew bonus is added after the powerfists doubling so it's only str.9, only:laugh:, And lightning claws reroll failed rolls to wound.... Probably typos but it's best not to confuse others etc.
Still great tactic, I use it a lot too:biggrin:


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## UltiLink (Sep 4, 2008)

How many of them are there?
If one, id set a FB piranha on it.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

This unit remains entirely unworthy of a "versus" thread.

Just lock them in CC with anything you like. They will never leave.

Fielding 30 of them is a joke. You think you are hard to kill? See how hard it is to kill an ork or nid force with just 30 guns, all with a 12" range. See what happens when said orks or nids easily charge you without you ever getting to fire said guns.

Now see that army against double-lash chaos.

Now against IG or Tau, or shooty marines.

How about other eldar? Skimmers miles out of range, snipers, dark reapers, fire dragons, not good.

Any kind of marines...

Grey knights?... everyone has S6 weapons in CC and no trouble getting there. Sisters?... oh dear, rending bolters.

Necrons? Locked with a scarab swarm.

Wraithguard are _fairly_ tough. That's all. This is balanced by costing double what a normal MEQ type thing would cost. You jump out of your wave serpent, you shoot your 5 fancy guns, 3 slugga boyz die, you die. Even in the ulikely event that you get to take our a carnifex or something the nid guy just charges you with anything else he likes and that's the end - and your unit cost way more than the carnie did (even before considering your transport).

My original advice remains: Ignore wraithguard.


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Ignore wraithguard, so my unit of 5 can pop about the battle field in a wave serpent picking off what presents itself. You're a fool if you use them to counter a tyranid troop choice, but what about a lictor or carnifex? 

Scoot round the battlefield with star engines, then next turn destroy that "bassie" or whatever. When treated like a small squad of assasins, they are something to be feared. The fact that so many of you have said "forget about them" works in their favour.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

A unit of wraithguard in a wave serpent is going to cost a minimum of 300 points and probably nearer 350. Any of the targets you have mentioned costs under half that.

You can move your wraithguard where you want and kill a unit. Of course, there's no guarantee at all that the unit will die, what with cover saves and the small number of shots you fire, but it might work. Your unit firing at the bassie has a bit less than a 50% chance of a kill, I believe. Fire dragons would have a substantially better chance, particularly since they have AP1 guns.

That part is easy anyway. The problem is the next turn. You will quite easily get to shoot at a carnifex if you want to but a shooty fex is going to be in cover (so may well survive and eat you) and a melee or short range dakka fex is going to be part of a wave of other nids. Can you get within 12" of the fex to shoot it but not within charge range of any of the other nids? Probably not. If you don't kill the thing it just eats you itself of course.

Lictors have a 2+ cover save basically all the time they aren't in close combat. They aren't particularly difficult to kill with shuriken catapults in the open anyway, but wraithguard are probably the worst unit in the eldar codex to kill them with.

Fire dragons are pretty good. Wraithguard don't really have any advantages over them. You could buy 10 fire dragons with an exarch with firepike and both exarch powers for the same as 5 wraithguard with a warlock. Wraithguard are tougher, kind of, but that doesn't make much difference when they are inside a wave serpent. People tend to take cheaper units and put them in invincible falcons - something you can't do with wraithguard. 10 fire dragons with tank hunters and crack shot on the exarch are clearly far more dangerous than 5 wraithguard.


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

minimum of 195 I believe. I wasn't saying those things specifically. I don't see a tyranid army with a 'fex and say "ooh I better take my wraithguard." I was more saying that when used correctly, wraithguard are your best option. The extra toughness and armour make them significantly tougher then fire dragons, which have always seemed like a one use unit to me, before they got finished off in the next turn.

I'm only argueing this because i think it's silly for people to write them off.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

That's fair enough. My argument runs something like "they suck, write them off, save your money". 

I don't rate the toughness 6. In close combat it just means they take a bit longer to kill, assuming no power fists are present. Their own offense in CC is so tiny that they are always going to end up losing in the end, and their range of 12" more or less guarantees that they will see CC. Toughness also has no effect while in a transport, so it has basically no influence over whether they get into position to fire their guns, or whether they get to fire them twice.

Wraithcannon are a great gun but I don't think they are on a good platform. They would be awesome on jetbikes, for example, but you can't do that. On a wraithguard they can't expect to fire often, can't really do a lot to get into position, and aren't worth the effect of a single shot. Wraithguard on foot will often be charged before ever firing.

The quote of ~350 points was 200 for the wraithguard and warlock plus whatever the wave serpent costs.


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## Triangulum (Jul 15, 2008)

*He's Right*

Wraithguard are such a point suck unit, yeah they can probably kill or at least do alot of damage to any single MEQ squad or Monsterous creature, the problem with this is that after that they are out in the cold I have 4 armies in the 5000 pt range here is how I would kill them with each one


Guard- They kill a squad of my elites or maybe a vehicle, then I open up with the plasma or meltas every squad has, hose them with heavy weapons fire, then I drop a battle cannon shell on them and wipe out the remnants, oh and if there are any survivors, just charge them and watch attrition work.

Tau- They kill off a crisis team or tank (hopefully) then my gunline full of strength 5 weapons wipes em out, my ion cannon Hammerhead takes em out, or another fireknife team plows em into the table. Oh or the vespid go to work. They aren't that tough or that hard to kill. Roughly equivalent to an MEQ with feel no pain

Daemonhunters- Deal with the hits, probably lose a squad of knights, hose em down (kill one or two hopefully with psycannons) then charge their ass with Termis or an inquisitor and retinue- hell even normal knights could wipe em out with even numbers. 

Necrons- I probably lose an elite squad, or take some wounds on my Lord (would be fun to watch them fight a monolith) then Open up on em let destroyers heavy destroyer and immortals thin the ranks (a squad of 20 warriors would do some damage too), then plow in a squad of warriors to tie em up forever or have the Pariahs/Wraiths tear them apart. Come to think of it if I put in my lord I could probably wipe em out with swarms. Oh and if they jump in near a monolith, they die. 



This unit sucks and few people field them. Even less use them right like the other dude is describing. They are not worth this.


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## Shadowfire (Mar 20, 2010)

Damn, one of my favourite powers of the Wguard is the psychological effect they have on opponents.
Real off their stat line, let your opponent ask to see your Codex, always makes me smile.
Explain how their weaponry works, hand over Codex again, am normally smirking by now.
Place a unit of 10, emphasising they are a Troops choice right in the middle avec Mr Eldrad and wheel them confidently forward.
Watch as opponent starts to fire on them, explain saves, cover saves and Fortune, this time offer Codex, yeah, rub it in.
Psychologically, you've already won the game, just chuck a few dice as opponent scurries about redeploying army forgetting any initial battle plans they had. :taunt:
Job done, and best of all, it's all a bit of a bluff. Eldar-tastic.

Best way to deal with Wguard? Threads on forums like this 

All of a sudden they aren't that much of a threat and are quite easily killed off or ignored.

Still it's good to run them out every now and again. Keeps people on their toes


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh Shadowfire, but could you tone down the Necro-ing? Just a little please?

Just in case you're new to forums, "Necro-ing" means posting in topics that are very old and either have served their purpose or wandered so far off topic that there's no point reviving them.

Just in the last two days you've brought up like 20 threads whose last post was sometime in 2008-9. This is classed as Necro-ing and in a lot of forums would get you an instant moderator warning and eventually a ban. Heresy is a bit nicer though, so I thought I'd throw you a heads up. 

It might be worth confining your replies to threads that have been posted in the last month or two (at the latest), you can see the date of the last post in any thread just above the person's Avatar. In this thread it was 30-09-2008.

It's great that you're another Eldar player who is enthusiastic about joining in with the community on Heresy, and I wish you the best of luck beating your regular opponent! I'm glad the forums are helping you with ideas and tactics and I look forward to chatting with you soon in threads! (Ideally ones on the first two pages on the forum) k:


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## Shadowfire (Mar 20, 2010)

Loud and Clear Sethis, ty


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

No worries! 

Take it easy,

Sethis


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Yes, they are tough, and at 10 man, WILL be camping on an objective. However, at 12", they can easily be avoided. Focus attentions else where.

at 2k points, a full unit of Wraiths still costs 1/5 of the army. Thats a massive chunk to surrender to camping.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

I like Wraithguard, give them a Farseer with Fortune and Guide, and a Warlock with Conceal, and they are amazingly tough.
About a 55% cover save, and an 88% armour save, and at Toughness 6 they're very hard to kill with anything but the heaviest weapons.

And then of course you trudge them into range, and fortune some delicious Wraithcannon death on their anything.


..
How to kill them?
Battlecannon, probably the best weapon to use against them honestly.
Failing that, high Strength weapons, only an idiot would take them without Conceal, or keep them in cover; so high AP weapons won't help too much.


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Yes, but for 385 points for the unit (not counting the farseer, since you'd take him anyways) they can afford to throw a freaktarded amount of, say, plas at them.

You're paying for freakish toughness and a cannon of a gun. Unfortunately they're tough but not _that_ tough and their cannon, while cute, just isn't nearly kill-ey enough. At 12" range killing 5.5 dudes just isn't that impressive, and it's not exactly the bane of vehicles, y'know?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

You can ethier use High Strength weapons, or use a crap ton low Strength. No Invunerable, 1 wound, and a 3+ save is hardly worth fearing. Plus at their Pt value, Squads of 10 its not too effective. Stay out of their 12 guns of death, and pound at them from a distance. Plus at squads of 10 they're force to move on foot. 

I know a guy that uses a list like this. He uses 3 squads of 10 with Spiritseers, 3 Wraithlords, a Farseer, and some Rangers to hold objectives. Pretty solid but gets shot to hell, if he somehow found the points to split one sqaud into Wave Serphants, it would be deadly. As it is its just too slow to work.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

If your playing chaos a double DP charge will still rape a unit of wraithgaurd no matter what its size especially if your using warptime, or a unit of khorn raptors will still likely be able to tie a small unit of em in combat with the whole causing 3 wounds thing. On a funny side not this is the one instance where taking a Nurgle chaos lord would really help I mean just put em in a unit of raptors and watch em kill 2-3 with his daemon weapon. 

Similar tactics work for most armies with nobs in a safe truck convoy or turbo charging on bikes being a good method for orks. Or thunder shield loyalists temies or vindicators being the loyalist answer to the problem. Remember they may be T6 with a 3+ armor save, but the matters little when fighting a marine squad with PF in close combat or genestealers since they both don't ignore armor saves in CC or cause instant death.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Cyklown said:


> Yes, but for 385 points for the unit (not counting the farseer, since you'd take him anyways) they can afford to throw a freaktarded amount of, say, plas at them.
> 
> You're paying for freakish toughness and a cannon of a gun. Unfortunately they're tough but not _that_ tough and their cannon, while cute, just isn't nearly kill-ey enough. At 12" range killing 5.5 dudes just isn't that impressive, and it's not exactly the bane of vehicles, y'know?


As I've said, with proper support (Warlock with Conceal, and a Farseer with Fortune) they become extremely hard to kill.
And also, you forgot to count Guide in to that calculation, and they are definitely not an anti-infantry unit, they can seriously injure any tough units with ease, and can fuck the shit out of a vehicle if they get the chance.


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## High Marshall Mendark (Jan 25, 2009)

Once upon a time, in a land far far away, there was a unit of wraithguard
They met a vindicator
The End


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

High Marshall Mendark said:


> Once upon a time, in a land far far away, there was a unit of wraithguard
> They met a vindicator
> The End


Um...



Winterous said:


> As I've said, with proper support (Warlock with Conceal, and a Farseer with Fortune) they become extremely hard to kill.
> And also, you forgot to count Guide in to that calculation, and they are definitely not an anti-infantry unit, they can seriously injure any tough units with ease, and can fuck the shit out of a vehicle if they get the chance.


Why hello there 55% chance of saving those wounds!


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Someguy said:


> Bah. "Versus Wraithguard"?
> 
> Ignore them and focus on other parts of the eldar army, like those that are some kind of threat to you. Send in someone with a powerfist if you can be bothered.
> 
> Wraithguard are very rare because they are rubbish and the figures are expensive. As such, you may want to check their rules when you play them to make sure they don't have any nasty surprises because you will usually go for long stretches of time without seeing any, and you may forget that they exist. Don't worry though, they have no surprises at all.


And what do you do when you do see whole army of WG, Wraithlords, and Warlock? Ive seen 2 armies like that, 1 guy that still plays that. :wink:



High Marshall Mendark said:


> Once upon a time, in a land far far away, there was a unit of wraithguard
> They met a vindicator
> The End


That will work.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> That will work.





Winterous said:


> As I've said, with proper support (Warlock with Conceal, and a Farseer with Fortune) they become extremely hard to kill.
> And also, you forgot to count Guide in to that calculation, and they are definitely not an anti-infantry unit, they can seriously injure any tough units with ease, and can fuck the shit out of a vehicle if they get the chance.


55% chance to save against that wound, for the third time.
It works, but not as well as you'd hope.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Hmmmm... Conceal is a bitch, Ive save 15-17 wounds on gaurdians thanks to Fortune and Conceal.


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

You're spending 40 (well, 15 for WG) points to get a crappier version of something that is free. Welcome to 5th ed: cover is not exactly hard to find.

A rerollable 5+ it a 5/9 chance of saving. A forrest or some rocks, or even another unit gives a 4+ save, which is only worse by 1/18, and you won't need to drop a 30 point power onto it. If you DO fortune them, you're facing a 3/4 chance to save. A 4+ not only better each step of the way, it also gets more from Fortune as well.

But wait, you say, I want to march my WG down the field! I can't camp cover, because I'll need to move!

My response? Why the fuck would you do a daft thing like that? They'll take a year to get there. By that time the battle will be _over_, and they'll have no impact on the fight up until then.

If you aren't going to objective-camp with 375+ points of sheer, unadulterated overcosted durability then drop the unit size. Put them in a transport. Infantry needs transports if they're going to get anywhere in time to matter. Now you can deliver 5 wraithcannon shots to somewhere on the battlefield. Mind you, 5 wraithcannon shots and a heavy flamer is going to do a ton, so why not give the warlock a singing spear. For 203 pts you get 5 wraithcannon shots, which will yield... 1 1/9 penatrating hit. So... 10/27 of a chance to destroy anything with an AV. The Spear will destroy an av10 vehicle 5/27 of the time, and an av 14 1/27 of the time.

Somehow a <50% chance to destroy a vehicle isn't that impressive. Fire Dragons will hit as often, will penetrate av14 more and will destroy anything they hit more. I'd rather destroy a landraider ~75% of the time for less points. For 206 points I can put 6 Fire Dragons in a transport. They'll kill more and cost 100 pts less.


The way to beat them is to not field them unless you're playing a silly game. If you see them, treat them as overpriced tarpits.


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## Arkanor (Jan 1, 2010)

Versus Wraithguard: Thank your opponent for not bringing mech Dragons instead. :biggrin:

Yeah the gun is good, but they get one shot a piece (at low range), and can be brought down easy by heavy weapons. Assault Terminators are much nastier to deal with IMO, WG are almost like AT's with no land raider. And for the cost of a 10 man squad of WG, you're looking at 20 meltaguns or 10, a WS, and change.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Winterous said:


> As I've said, with proper support (Warlock with Conceal, and a Farseer with Fortune) they become extremely hard to kill.
> And also, you forgot to count Guide in to that calculation, and they are definitely not an anti-infantry unit, they can seriously injure any tough units with ease, and can fuck the shit out of a vehicle if they get the chance.


Winterous, maths (like Shakira's Hips) don't lie. Run the numbers on shooting enemy Troops of any Armour Save (oryte, AP2) vs chances of Destroying any AV (oryte, abysmal against AV10,11,12) and then tell me they aren't anti-Infantry. lol


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

WG are anti Infatry, and the Wraith Lords often use to accompany them are Anti everything in turn . Thos list are pretty decent. I think its a very sound tatic if they could get Inv. Till then its decent list not awsome.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> WG are anti Infatry, and the Wraith Lords often use to accompany them are Anti everything in turn . Thos list are pretty decent. I think its a very sound tatic if they could get Inv. Till then its decent list not awsome.


How are they anti-infantry?
They don't have the scale of fire needed to hurt hordes.
What they are is anti-heavy, heavy units or vehicles, both are their point of excellence.
No matter the Toughness, they wound on 2+ and don't allow Armour saves.
No matter the Armour Value, they will always Glance on a 3-4 and Penetrate on a 5-6.

They can do their fair share of damage against lighter units, but what they're good at is killing heavy stuff which other things have trouble against.

And they can effectively have an Invulnerable save, with Conceal.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

They are AP2, not AP1. Single shot weapons must be S9+, Melta, or AP1, or any combination, to be anti-vehicle.

That FORCES them to be anti-Infantry. No-one, AFAIK, said it was GOOD anti-infantry.


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## Alexious (Apr 13, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> They are AP2, not AP1. Single shot weapons must be S9+, Melta, or AP1, or any combination, to be anti-vehicle.
> 
> That FORCES them to be anti-Infantry. No-one, AFAIK, said it was GOOD anti-infantry.


I thought the only thing eldar were forced to do was to be pro- emo metrosexual chest waxers.. 

A message bought to you by the All Eldar are Emo especially Swooping Hawks Council.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> They are AP2, not AP1. Single shot weapons must be S9+, Melta, or AP1, or any combination, to be anti-vehicle.
> 
> That FORCES them to be anti-Infantry. No-one, AFAIK, said it was GOOD anti-infantry.


You know what, you're right.
They're not so great against vehicles, but are still tough as fuck.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Winterous said:


> You know what, you're right.
> They're not so great against vehicles, but are still tough as fuck.


As always. Duh. :wink:


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