# Tactics against grav guns on white scar bikes or just in general.



## Jonny B (Aug 22, 2013)

Hi all, please send me any info on defending, attacking, playing, beating grav guns 

I'm about to face some white scar bikes and the lad equips them with a mixture of grav guns and meltas. Now I understand meltas but if I'm correct these grav guns can wound my terminators on a 2+?

I play CSM and already using a set list for a club tournament that involves, terminators, marines, chosen, vindicators and a heldrake. Thing is, if this lad goes first and the game is played width ways hes on you quickly using scout.

Anyway, any help appreciated. Thanks, Jon.


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

Grav guns wound against armour save, so vs terminators they do indeed wound on a 2+. They are also AP2 18" range and get 3 shots.

On the plus side they are pretty vulnerable to a helldrake & Vindicator.

He will probably be gunning for any terminators you have so i'd try and use that to your advantage, possibly use them to bait a trap if you can or deepstrike them in once your drake shows up.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

He spams grav guns you spam helldrakes, he sends one of your marines to the hospital, you send one of his to the!


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## Jonny B (Aug 22, 2013)

Cheers guys. Seem a bit dodgy to me these grav guns.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

Bah. Gravguns are so situational that thay make me laugh. they are just dumbed down plasmaguns if shooting your marines. you do not want them to shoot your 2+ models and that is all. Outshoot him with deepstrinking combiplasma terminators, with plasma or melta chosen, with vindicators...mind you, the white scar bikers list is the SM netlist. It is strong. he will manage to get a turn 2 charge with a 20ish bikers after peppering you with gravguns, then he'll go hit & run and rinse and repeat. Dangerous if you don't have a way to deal with such a list, wich means heldrakes and cultists meatshields and lots of plasma. Some deamon ally could also be fun (daemonettes comes to mind: fast, rending, no armour, cheap) 
Also, you might want to invest in vehicles like rhinos to hold your troops and predators or better still Defilers. yeah I know, they suck. but a large blast at Str 8 and Vp3 is going to ruin his day. (heldrake is better though...of course)


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## Jonny B (Aug 22, 2013)

Cheers Neferhet. I'm using the list you gave me so I have a few plans to pepper him with my bolt guns from 25 marines. Last time I played this guy using a different list of mine he blew my 2 vindicators up in turn 1 by dropping his pods in right next to them, out popped marines with meltas! I've since learnt the bubble wrapping technique so stand a better chance. This time I need to get first turn and lenghtways table play.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

if you know that he is gonig to use full biker white scar list, maybe you should consider rethinking a little bit the list 
Anyhow, GLORY TO CHAOS!!!


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## Jonny B (Aug 22, 2013)

Trouble is, I need to keep this same list throughout the tournament. I don't expect to beat this guy really; he's been playing for years and plays competitively. Just wanted to gain a better understanding of the crazy grav guns. Cheers for the help everyone :thumbup:


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## Shaun (Aug 7, 2010)

Grav gun white scars are tough to deal with very in your face very fast. The advice to focus on each unit is good. Unfortunately Psychic Shreik (12 inch range) is easily countered. A flying MC must move 12 inches to stay flying, a good biker general will duck under the MC casting shriek and stay behind it out of range. Bubble wrap against the bikers. You will also encounter possibly a white scar land raider with devastator centurions grav guns and grav amps, scouting. This is an expensive but lethal unit and very hard to stop.

Getting in an early round of shooting is very helpful and placing meat shields up front is essential.

White Scars are not a dominating list though. The biggest problem for White Scars is other marine/tau lists that contain lots of shooting thunderfires or inquisitors with servo skulls or marine/tau/eldar lists with scouting infiltrating units to block their early movement.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Bring some blobs of cultists...

Grav guns useless against 6+ armour...Blobs can tarpit bikes. And massed small arms fire negates the jink saves (or anything in the game really, except armour).


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Straken's_Fist said:


> Bring some blobs of cultists...
> 
> Grav guns useless against 6+ armour...Blobs can tarpit bikes. And massed small arms fire negates the jink saves (or anything in the game really, except armour).


A. Bikes will beat down Cultists in melee as Str5 HoW + 2 str4 attacks each vs WS3 6+ save T3 dudes who wound back on 6s.
B. You can't tarpit White Scars as the have army-wide Hit and Run at I4.
C. Those small arms are wounding bikes on 6s. You statistically need 36 Autogun shots to kill one Biker.
D. Cultists aren't native Fearless, so they make terrible tarpits unless you bring a bunch of Lords or Dark Apostles.

I'd recommend Huron to Infiltrate a long line of Cultists as Scout Defence. Outside of that, all the things CSM are good at are especially good against Bikers, so keep on bringing Noise Marines and Heldrakes and you'll be fine. Infiltrating the Cultist wall really lets Chaos' superb anti-heavy infantry firepower come into play.


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

He's already said his list is set - he can't change units.
@Jonny B - could you post your full list so people can have a more accurate idea of what you have to work with?


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Problem with Huron is servo skulls...apparently _everyone_ takes them now (I wouldnt know though) to prevent infiltrate. I thought flamers on cultists might work but clearly not...

Just spam Noise Marines and Heldrakes, ignore those jink saves...

Or if your list is set...see above


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Straken's_Fist said:


> Problem with Huron is servo skulls...apparently _everyone_ takes them now (I wouldnt know though) to prevent infiltrate. I thought flamers on cultists might work but clearly not...


That's a fair point; if the White Scars player is bringing an Inquisitor with Skulls, then infiltrating ain't gonna work. However, the Scars player might not be bringing Skulls - Bike armies have no units that really benefit from a foot-slogging Divination caster, and bring no blasts or deep striking to speak of. Tome of Vethric is pretty situational and rarely useful for them, and the Liber Heresius' main bonus is a White Scar core rule anyway. Flamers in singles aren't scary to anyone, really, and Bikes essentially laugh them off. They're better than Autoguns, but not worth paying points for.



Straken's_Fist said:


> Just spam Noise Marines and Heldrakes, ignore those jink saves...


Essentially yeah. Chaos are really good at killing expensive 3+ dudes, and Bike armies really suffer against the Heldrake and Blastmasters. Same reason why GK were removed as a competitive army.

Having your list set is a bit of a bummer. I'd add a vote asking to see your list, and we'll work from there.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

*Sigh* Yep. It's a sad truth that Guard infantry blobs are infinitely better than cultists at everything...Allying in a guard platoon always makes much more sense. 

The ability to take a heavy weapon and a special weapon every 10 men, plus orders, plus a better save, plus only 35pts for a commissar to prevent them running away. All for only +1pt per model...Autocannons/GL combo for those T5 bikes would be my choice...But yeah, the list is set so guess it's pointless discussing this...


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Straken's_Fist said:


> The ability to take a heavy weapon and a special weapon every 10 men, plus orders, plus a better save, plus only 35pts for a commissar to prevent them running away. All for only +1pt per model...Autocannons/GL combo for those T5 bikes would be my choice...But yeah, the list is set so guess it's pointless discussing this...


35pt Commissars? What are you playing, pre-Inquisition 40k? :victory:

But yeah, Cultists > Guard Blobs > Ork Boyz (yeah, Orks as a whole aren't competitive anymore, but Orks are probably the most efficient Troops unit in the entire goddamn game. It's the rest of the Codex that is... imperfect).


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## Shaun (Aug 7, 2010)

All the white scars bikes have hit and run tarpitting is not a valid tactic agaisnt them


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## Jonny B (Aug 22, 2013)

Cheers for the comments again. May I ask what tarpitting is please? 

My list consists off:
Abaddon and 5 terminators with power axes and combi meltas.
10 marines with 2 plasmas 
15 marines with 2 plasmas
5 Chosen in a rhino with flamers
1 lord on a steed with murder sword and sigil, he outflanks with 5 Chosen with plasmas
2 vindicators
1 heldrake
5 havocs with 4 autocannons

Played some white scars last night but with mostly meltas and some flamers. 3 flyers and vindi and pred. He ripped me apart but I was poor tactically and reserve rolling plus he stole the initiative!


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

Jonny B said:


> Cheers for the comments again. May I ask what tarpitting is please?


Using a large or tough unit of cheap models to keep a scary enemy CC unit locked in combat, hopefully stopping or slowing them from reaching your important units.


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