# Conversion of models kits for 40k



## Makarov

Background​I was about to give up 40k when I heard about the recent price increase, mostly due to the fact that I could no longer justify spending money on a $39.99 Chimera(not including tax), when I could just buy a BMP-1 model kit for less than 20 bucks (including tax). Then it hit me . Why not just use a BMP-1 from a model kit as a proxy for a Chimera. I mean they look very similar (I get the feeling that GW based the Chimera off a real world IFV/APC). Have similar embark/disembark point (the rear of the model). Have a turret in a similar. The BMP model kit even has hatches in the rear that were designed for troops to shoot out of them (sound similar). So I decided why not, and I want to help my fellow players as well. Here are some model kits that are similar to certain GW counterparts. You could also use these model kits as a way to spice up your army, or for conversions.

I will periodically update this list when possible, and please feel free to pm me or add to this list.

*** Things to keep in mind
-Please note that these model kit aren't the exact same size as their GW counter part so don't expect a 100% identical model.
-Non GW models cannot be used in GW stores or GW tournaments.
-Certain model kits are designed to be more difficult to assemble then others.
-Price may vary from place to place, store to store.
-Some of these models will need some work to convert them into 40k models
-Also model kits vary from company to company.
-Be careful of model scale a 1:35 model isn't the same as a 1:72 model. 
-_Overall I highly recommend 1:48 scale, but 1:35 will do if that is all there is._

Websites to buy from
http://www.ehobbies.com/
http://tinyurl.com/73zwp45

_Imperial Guard:_

Chimera alternatives:








*BMP 1, BMP 2, BMP 3*

















Vendetta 








*MiL-24 Hind*









Basilisk








*8.8cm PaK 43 Waffentrager Tank*








*Marder III Tank Destroyer*









Hydra Flak Tank








*Soviet ZSU-23-4*








*USMC M50A1 Ontos*










_Space Marines_

Rhino 








*M113*









Vindicator








*Sturmtiger*









_Orks_

Ork Bommer








*WW2 F6F Hellcat*








*MiG 17F*









Some examples of good conversions.

http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=76349

An M3 Lee to Leman Russ









An M113 to a Chimera









An T26 to Leman Russ without sponsons


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## bastex

lemanr russ and sherman tanks 1:35 
i use m36 jacksons as vanquishers also 1:35


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## Sakura_ninja

It's just a shame 1:35th is closer to inquisitor scale, not 40k, they look waaaay too big when you see bright big blue smurf tanks completely the wrong size

1:48th lee grants, M12's, and turreted halftracks would be great for russ, basilisk and chimeras


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## Silens

It could be a nice idea, but if you showed up for a game of 40K with all of those tanks I would refuse to play. They look kind of similar but they are quite blatantly NOT 40k tanks.


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## normtheunsavoury

Silens said:


> but if you showed up for a game of 40K with all of those tanks I would refuse to play.


Yeah, cos, like, all the dice would stop rolling and their spots would fall off! It happens, I've seen it!


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## shaantitus

I would play you. No issues. We have at43 dotch yagas as basilisks and medusas, i use dustgame models for malcadors, a dreamforge leviathan as a khorne lord of battles and a 1:16th sturmtiger as an imperial leviathan. Only requirement would be that you make some effort to make them look 40k. they will have to be converted to fit in. Collect up those bits, hk missiles, use marine tank cupolas, mod the weapons etc.


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## Makarov

shaantitus said:


> I would play you. No issues. We have at43 dotch yagas as basilisks and medusas, i use dustgame models for malcadors, a dreamforge leviathan as a khorne lord of battles and a 1:16th sturmtiger as an imperial leviathan. Only requirement would be that you make some effort to make them look 40k. they will have to be converted to fit in. Collect up those bits, hk missiles, use marine tank cupolas, mod the weapons etc.


That's what I was thinking of doing. Putting a bunch of Imperial Eagles on the side and maybe have some guardsmen riding/sitting on them.




Silens said:


> It could be a nice idea, but if you showed up for a game of 40K with all of those tanks I would refuse to play. They look kind of similar but they are quite blatantly NOT 40k tanks.


http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=76349


An M3 Lee to Leman Russ









An M113 to a Chimera









An T26 to Leman Russ without sponsons


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## Keen4e

I don't really see much the point of this. If you find 40K too expensive, then don't play it and play the games with the realistic historical tanks. That kind of proxy does not seem right to me. I guess I would still play with you (had i not been playing in a gw store), because I don't like to be too fanatical about these things, but I personally would definitely not proxy my tanks by models like these.


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## Makarov

Keen4e said:


> I don't really see much the point of this. If you find 40K too expensive, then don't play it and play the games with the realistic historical tanks. That kind of proxy does not seem right to me. I guess I would still play with you (had i not been playing in a gw store), because I don't like to be too fanatical about these things, but I personally would definitely not proxy my tanks by models like these.


Its up to you if you want to use them as models or not. But, what many people here are forgetting is that they could also be used for conversions.


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## Dicrel Seijin

I have a flyer for you, though no pics. 

For the Ork Bommer, I'm using a 1:48 F6F Hellcat from Lindberg. 

The bommer kit has all the bitz needed to create all three variants and I figured that as long as I could find the right size fuselage (and wings), I could convert the airplane kit with the leftover bitz. It seemed a waste to buy three bommer kits and have all these bitz left over. 

And the Hellcat only cost me US$10.00 (so I "saved" US$35.50, which will go to purchasing other WH40K stuff). It will require some orky kustomizashun (patching it up with plasticard scrap and riveting) so I probably won't be fielding it for a while.

I'm currently on the lookout for a bi-plane for a true Krimson Baron kunvershun. Maybe have a pair of grots wing-walking.


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## lockeF

I think this is a cool find/thread. Its cool to do sweet conversions with. And honestly, I don't see it as a problem when playing friendly games. I don't look as it as trying to find a cheap alternative to 40K while still playing 40K. Its just buying some different looking tanks, hopefully modding them to have the proper guns and playing a match. But hell, I'm pretty lenient. Just as long as no one shows up with an imperial guard army full of little green army men, I let little things like that go.


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## Sakura_ninja

Silens said:


> It could be a nice idea, but if you showed up for a game of 40K with all of those tanks I would refuse to play. They look kind of similar but they are quite blatantly NOT 40k tanks.


Except they are, they have 40k weapons, markings and are used in a 40k army and fit the users 40k theme, so they are 40k vehicles as much as any gw vehicle.


Keen4e said:


> I don't really see much the point of this. If you find 40K too expensive, then don't play it and play the games with the realistic historical tanks. That kind of proxy does not seem right to me. I guess I would still play with you (had i not been playing in a gw store), because I don't like to be too fanatical about these things, but I personally would definitely not proxy my tanks by models like these.


Why do you assume its because the models are too expensive? (which they are) people might prefer these because the 40k tank designs are retarded shit and pretty average detail quality compared to full on proper models


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## Keen4e

Sakura_ninja said:


> Why do you assume its because the models are too expensive? (which they are) people might prefer these because the 40k tank designs are retarded shit and pretty average detail quality compared to full on proper models


Perhaps because it was the reason the author of this topic gave. The question whether you like 40k tanks design is I would say a personal preference. The design of Leman Russ chassis is a lot based on WW1 tanks, while the turret is a bit more modern. They don't look perhaps much realistic, but that's the whole point of 40K. If you want to play more realistic games, perhaps you should consider flames of war for instance. That being said, no matter how many aquilas, Imperial Guardsmen/Space Marines and heavy bolters you put on these tanks, they still won't be 40K tanks, because they lack their design.


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## Sakura_ninja

They have the design you want for your 40k army, what you mean is they are not 40k for you, to me they fit MY image of 40k allot more than the proper tanks do because I would do fluff for MY army that refuses retarded weapon and tank design.


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## Rems

An even cheaper solution is to simply make your own tanks from templates using cardstock or plasti-card (sheet styrene). It's both cheaper and fully game legal, especially if you accessorise with gw bits. It's not to hard to do either given the simple, straight shapes of Imperial tanks. 

Of course at the end of the day you can field whatever you like as counts as or conversions. Just don't automatically accept your opponent's willingness or play them or tournament legality.


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## lockeF

I tried to make rhinos out of plasticard, perhaps I should have used a template, but I bought the sides for the rhinos from bits and kits and then made the rest out of plasticard. I feel like I just don't have the patience for such things cause let me tell you, they turned out crappy.


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## Sangus Bane

All you need is time, tools, glue and enough bits to make it work.

A10- Lightning II- Warthogs can make for good Ork and Imperial bombers as well.


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## Keen4e

Sakura_ninja said:


> They have the design you want for your 40k army, what you mean is they are not 40k for you, to me they fit MY image of 40k allot more than the proper tanks do because I would do fluff for MY army that refuses retarded weapon and tank design.


According to 40K fluff, your army would probably be accused of techno-heresy for tampering with the holy form of the Leman Russ battle tank.These crazy techpriest maniacs even objected to put a twin-linked lascanon on a predator, let alone making a tank that looks like T36 or a sherman. That being said, the idea of making an original guard still appeals to me, so if you can find the right fluff, in the end: why not.


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## Old Man78

Are they your conversions, if so sweet! I love the ZSU 23/4 infact I'm planning on making similar turret to put on a chimera to turn it into a hydra as it looks way better than the G.W one, and I'd play you no dramas!!!


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## Makarov

Oldman78 said:


> Are they your conversions, if so sweet! I love the ZSU 23/4 infact I'm planning on making similar turret to put on a chimera to turn it into a hydra as it looks way better than the G.W one, and I'd play you no dramas!!!



http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=76349
The conversions in the pictures aren't mine. They belong to the OP in the link. I can't paint anywhere near that well.


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## Silens

If you showed up with those conversions I'd be happy to play.


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## Dave T Hobbit

A potentially useful resource.

NOSTALGIA I can still remember when all 40K vehicles were made from other people's products. /NOSTALGIA


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## Sakura_ninja

Good point, they are 40k because there was a time when no vehicles existed for 40k, plus a time when vehicle design rules existsed AND a time when gw had grav tanks made from head and shoulders bottles.


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## Dînadan

This does look like a good idea. Had a brief browse of the internet earlier today, and buying a historic tank and slapping on weapons from bits&kits and stuff from the bits box, it looks possible to make a predator or vindicator for arround £25, compared to £35 for the 'proper' GW kit.

will definately be trying this when I have the cash to do so.


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## Sakura_ninja

Somebody say vindicator? 
http://www.modelsforsale.com/catalo...Club---German-Sturmtiger-38m-RW61-Scale-1/48-


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## Makarov

Sakura_ninja said:


> Somebody say vindicator?
> http://www.modelsforsale.com/catalo...Club---German-Sturmtiger-38m-RW61-Scale-1/48-


Added


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## imm0rtal reaper

Personally, I'd be MORE than happy to play against someone with those tanks. They look great and it's good to see something different once in a while. 

If they were mine and I went for a game and someone refused to play me because I was using converted historical, I'd call them a dick and leave. 

Outside of a GW store or an indie store with a strict policy, you can use whatever you want and no one should have a problem with it. I'm ALL for proxies. I'd happily play someone using the IG list but using a few daemon models, pieces of card and stacks of bases if they were testing the army to see if they wanted to commit. 

I encourage all the gamers I know to look for alternate sources of miniatures becuase the variety makes the game more interesting.


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## bitsandkits

Im kinda on the fence with this, for me it does seem false economy to take up a hobby you cant afford and turning up with nicely painted proxy non GW models can cause friction , some people will refuse to play and are perfectly within there rights to do so, many clubs and such play WYSIWYG to and as GW fill in more and more of the gaps in codex books proxies like these are becoming less and less acceptable. But the flip side of the coin is , why shouldnt people convert non GW kits to the fit the game?, but scratch building and converting for your own pleasure is different from proxying models because you cant or wont pay for the GW models, its kinda like the old argument between using a self sculpted model vs a green army man, one model shows a keen interest in the craft side of the hobby the other shows a serious lack of respect for your opponent.

People are not necessarily dicks just because they wont play against you, its just people have certain expectations and standards, after all its there time and hobby too, some people will only play with and against fully painted armies, some people will play with and against balled up tissues so long as they get a game, each person has there own idea of who or what they should face, and sometimes its not your models or paint job it could just be you they dont want to play because your a Dick too.

Should also be noted that as great and as cheap these model tank kits are they are also designed for stationary display and not constant moving around a battlefield and in and out of model cases, if your going to use them take the time to strengthen the glue joints (brace it with some spure) and generally look at leaving fragile parts off the model as they will snap off if you look at them wrong. 

I like the idea of converting other ranges to work within GW systems, im not so keen if its purely a financial reasons, not because im a purist but its more its a hobby and there are plenty of ways to get the genuine models without spending the earth via ebay and buying second hand, but as always my opinion and the opinion of others on forums is not relevant, ultimately its the person holding the purse that has to make the choice.


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## Sakura_ninja

bitsandkits said:


> Im kinda on the fence with this, for me it does seem false economy to take up a hobby you cant afford and turning up with nicely painted non GW


The hobby is what you make it.


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## fynn

@the poster who says he would refuse to play someone who used Non-GW kits, Would you also refuse to play an Ork player who turned up with some great looking converted/scratchbuilt non-GW Battle wagons and other orky tanks as well?
I Know a few ork players who still use there own converted battle wagons and trucks that they built for there army long before the GW kits came, and they look a damm site better.

@bits and kits, bear in mind mate, some times its a case of being in the game for a long time, and GW slowly priceing you out, ive been playing for over 20 years, and for me its a case of either buying stuff from indie sellers, second hand or tradeing items, and most of the time its the last 2 options for me


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## bitsandkits

i hadnt finished typing


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## bitsandkits

Sakura_ninja said:


> The hobby is what you make it.


your hobby is what you make it, but if your hobby requires the interaction with other people then the opinions of those people impact on your hobby.
From your previous posts you have a fuck you attitude which is fine, but that comes with consequence.


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## Sakura_ninja

bitsandkits said:


> your hobby is what you make it, but if your hobby requires the interaction with other people then the opinions of those people impact on your hobby.
> From your previous posts you have a fuck you attitude which is fine, but that comes with consequence.


Not bothered anymore


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## bitsandkits

fynn said:


> @bits and kits, bear in mind mate, some times its a case of being in the game for a long time, and GW slowly priceing you out, ive been playing for over 20 years, and for me its a case of either buying stuff from indie sellers, second hand or tradeing items, and most of the time its the last 2 options for me


well like you i was there for the release of rouge trader, yes it costs more than it did 25 years ago, but the world has changed and we can go around in circles and talk about the times when we could buy a unit of eldar for a fiver etc etc.
Im not going to make excuses or give reasons why GW is the price it is, im just saying you either accept the price,adapt or leave the hobby, My gym membership went up by almost a third at the start of april, i either stump up the cash, find another way to exercise for less or walk away, but as always GW do not have a responsibility to make products affordable for all, they have a responsibility to make profit for the company and its share holders, and sadly that means some people will be priced out of the hobby.


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## bitsandkits

Sakura_ninja said:


> Not bothered anymore


good for you k:


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## imm0rtal reaper

bitsandkits said:


> im just saying you either accept the price,adapt or leave the hobby.


Do you not think converting cheaper tank kits is adapting?


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## Magpie_Oz

I like to use models other than GW, particularly for vehicles as I don't like the look of most of the GW vehicles. 

Getting 3 non-GW vehicles for the price of 1 genuine item is a big draw card too.


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## bitsandkits

imm0rtal reaper said:


> Do you not think converting cheaper tank kits is adapting?


where did i say that they shouldnt ?


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## imm0rtal reaper

bitsandkits said:


> where did i say that they shouldnt ?


Just the general tone seemed to suggest you were against using historical kits as proxies in general. And I was just pointing out that converting them is adapting. 

I understand that some people won't play against people who use coins and stuff as proxies when testing armies, that's fair enough if you're playing someone you don't know. 

But I think as long as the venue allows it, you (not you specifically, but people) shouldn't have a problem with proxies that effort has been put into (like those tanks)


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## LukeValantine

Personally my traitor guard are getting some old school wheeled chimera all thanks to chapter house.


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## humakt

That looks good LukeValentine, but it means a vehicle which is more expensive than the GW variant as you need the conversion kit and the origional kit.

This is an interesting thread, and I have not seen a convincing argument as to why people cant do this, as long as the vehicle they are taking is clearly explained to your opponent. At the end of the day whats the difference between taking one of the above vehicals and me taking my truckofex?

Perhaps its because I do come from the day of shampoo bottles as Eldar grav tanks.


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## Zetronus

*@thread*


Keen4e said:


> According to 40K fluff, your army would probably be accused of techno-heresy for tampering with the holy form of the Leman Russ battle tank.These crazy techpriest maniacs even objected to put a twin-linked lascanon on a predator, let alone making a tank that looks like T36 or a sherman. That being said, the idea of making an original guard still appeals to me, so if you can find the right fluff, in the end: why not.


I have read this a lot, and lets be honest the fluff here is a clever way to ensure the sale of overpriced plastic kits - as opposed to substitute products and or conversions - it plays right into the hands of the purist and fanatical.

_(It wouldn't surprise me if we start hearing, no you can not use unofficial GW scenery any time soon!_)


I am all for the conversions and adaptations... as long as it looks the part I am happy to play against it or field in battle - either that or any Ork amy I have seen wont be able to be fielded LOL!

although I may raise an eyebrow at an unpainted shampoo bottle.


*@Makarov*
It would be an honour to battle against your most resplendent army of war machines!


*@Bits*


> ...Im not going to make excuses or give reasons why GW is the price it is, im just saying you either accept the price,adapt or leave the hobby..


For the most part I agree with what you say, however I would add the fact that as a member of the hobby we all have the right to complain / have our views heard. What they (GW) do with that information / complaint is their business - they may take action, make additions, amendments or just ignore you, but neither you or I can take the right to complain away from someone.

This is a process of feedback, and in any business is a critical component in reaching your customer and future customers.

So in my humble opinion, if someone has something troubling them, get it off your chest, dont hold back... in retrospect think of it like this - you are doing GW a favour by complaining as you are offering them a chance to improve their products by using your feedback.


*@thread*
40K is getting quite expensive, while I can afford it, as some others on here, a lot are finding it a struggle - I can understand that in these economically challenged times - however this should concern us all... with a massive price bar to get into the hobby - and successively expensive components - this means a lot less players taking up the hobby... and more players leaving..

So in retrospect GW are priceing EVERYONE out of the game, even if we can afford it.

there I said.... sue me =)


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## Azkaellon

Im thinking Of using these as my voidraven's...with a big of conversion love mind you. 

http://round2models.com/models/amt/klingon-bop/product

(Might be a bit big though...lol)


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## Dave T Hobbit

Azkaellon said:


> Im thinking Of using these as my voidraven's...with a big of conversion love mind you.
> 
> http://round2models.com/models/amt/klingon-bop/product
> 
> (Might be a bit big though...lol)


That could look really good.


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## Azkaellon

Dave T Hobbit said:


> That could look really good.


Thanks! Do you think it will be to big though? I am thinking since the wings slant...it might work!


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## Dave T Hobbit

Azkaellon said:


> Thanks! Do you think it will be to big though? I am thinking since the wings slant...it might work!


A Razorwing is 7" by 8" so the Bird of Prey would be approximately twice the size; that does not seem an unreasonable ratio for a bomber to a fighter.


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## Azkaellon

Dave T Hobbit said:


> A Razorwing is 7" by 8" so the Bird of Prey would be approximately twice the size; that does not seem an unreasonable ratio for a bomber to a fighter.


Good point...I think i will draw up some conversion idea's and post em up tomorrow!


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## scscofield

You could probably cut the wings down to the razorwing span. Maybe even use the cut down parts in front of the cut wings to make the wings broader. I think the DE would favor a more teardrop shape than the t shape of the bird of prey also.


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## Makarov

So I've decided to practice what I suggest. I recently got this model kit, and I'm thinking of converting it into a Chimera.










I shall post pics when done. A heads up, I suck at painting so it will have a basic paint scheme.


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## Inquisitor Thrax

Actually 1/48- 1/46 scale stand in quite nicely. Great call, BMP-1's standing in for Chimera's. That's exactly what I am doing, more so because I love the BMP AFV series. I'll post pics when I am finished. I have seriously considered a Hind F Valkrye stand except I really like the Valkrye kit. My friends and I have been at this stand in routine for some time now. A friend of mine in Florida made 2 different Predator variants one based on a Panzer I model and the other based on the Aliens movie licensed tank model kit. Additionally he made a specialized Terminator carrier out of the WWII German Ferdinand. The designers at GW come up with a lot of their kits by kitbashing I have no doubts. Cheers and let us not forget the vehicle design rules that were out back in 4th? edition 40k. My gaming circle still uses them. Cheers, good luck kitbashing, customizing, and ever making 40k neater looking!


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## Contour5

I'd love to pay 39.99 for a tank here in Aus it would cost me $55 which is $57.78 US.

But I wouldn't have a problem playing against Scale models it wouldn't stop me losing.


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## Decho

In tournaments I can see why people might want everything to be official kits, so you instantly know what it is you're facing. In basically every other context I really can't see why people should have a problem with it, but fine I knows some people will.

As long as effort has been put in 'proxies' are fine by me, though that term doesn't really work in the context of the models from the front page, they're fully modelled tanks with imperial markings, and I can think of numerous fluff-sound reasons why imperial troops may be using non-standard equipment (even though it does make them techno-heretics to some).


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## Haskanael

I'd play after you carefully explained on the spot wich tank represents wich xD


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## Decho

Additionally, the new 1:48 Airfix Op Herrick range may provide some useful stuff for lighter vehicles: http://www.airfix.com/airfix-products/operation-herrick-afghanistan/

especially the jackal/coyote and possibly the quad bikes (when they're released), depending on how well they scale (will be getting some of those and seeing about possibilities for scout bikers). Of course, I wouldn't recommend buying from the airfix site with those prices...


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