# Why Was Horus Not Made A Daemon Of Some Description?



## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Afternoon,

I am not well versed on 40k Fluff, I read the Codices and such but have taken little interest other wise, i prefer modelling to the Fluff. So you will have to bear with me on this. 

Given that a few of the Primarchs were made Daemon Princes or whatever; why was Horus not elevated to Daemonhood?
He was the instrument of all four Chaos Gods was he not? Should that not have made him some sort of 'uber' Chaos Undivided Daemon Prince?

SGMAlice

Edit: I was not specific enough. For clarification:
I was referring to when he was squished by the Emperor; as many of Chaos' greatest champions were dead before the Chaos gods intervened. Kharn is an example of this i think. But the question can also apply to any time in Horus' life after he turned to Chaos.


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## Archaon18 (Feb 17, 2012)

My best guess is that the Gods wanted one final show of bad-assness, ie killing the immortal God Emperor, not to mention he was not in their service for as long as the Daemon Primarchs.


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## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

I think the Emperor blasted Horus out of existence of body and soul. So there was nothing left for chaos to claim. 

Speaking of which it's kind of unfair that chaos can elevated followers to daemonhood, which makes them near immortal . 

I wonder if there be a balance to chaos. Something that is good and opposite to chaos and just as powerful.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

Eh, all 4 Chaos gods were already empowering Horus, and given how the Emperor only had to hit Horus once to burn his soul out of the warp, I doubt having him be a daemon would have made any difference. In fact, given how fast the Emperor banished Doombreed, Horus might have even been at a disadvantage as a daemon.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

we need a chaos god of order!


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Horus was never supposed to win. It was all about trapping the Imperium into a slow steady decline. Horus would have taken Humanity out in spectacular but brief blaze of glory, depriving the Chaos gods of their favourite snacking material. Horus was never anything but a means to an end, a tool to be used and discarded.




Haskanael said:


> we need a chaos god of order!


Oddly, a chaos god of order could make sense.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

A parallel can be drawn between Horus and Abaddon on this issue. Whilst it is not certain, many people speculate that the reason Abaddon hasn't ascended to Daemonhood is because he would not be able to conquer the Imperium if he did - for two main reasons: becoming a daemon drastically alters one's perceptions and purpose and manifesting in realspace takes a considerable effort. The same would have applied to Horus during the Heresy. He was gifted and empowered by the gods, but not ascended. 



Chompy Bits said:


> Horus was never supposed to win. It was all about trapping the Imperium into a slow steady decline.


Says who?



Chompy Bits said:


> Horus would have taken Humanity out in spectacular but brief blaze of glory, depriving the Chaos gods of their favourite snacking material.


I'd like to point out that the Cabal's prophecy was fallible, their predictions may not have become actuality.



SoulGazer said:


> In fact, given how fast the Emperor banished Doombreed, Horus might have even been at a disadvantage as a daemon.


The Emperor banished Doombreed?


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

I can understand him not being ascended before or during the Heresy but why not afterwards? when he was struck down?

Super Awesome Daemon Horus!
He could be the EoT's version of the Emperor! Except for the whole 'dead' bit (Horus would be 'alive').

A few people have said that the blow that killed him destroyed his soul as well as his mortal body but these are gods we are talking about, they can do pretty much anything they want to.

Do all souls not get absorbed by the Warp anyway? Or was this 'soul destroying blow' a way around that?

SGMAlice


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The Emperor banished Doombreed?


I'd read somewhere that they met on Horus's ship and Doombreed was banished with a gesture. All I can find in the CSM codex is that Doombreed was there, and I can't recall now where I read of the encounter. I'll try to find it again. I mean, you'd think the most powerful Daemon Prince of Khorne would charge head first into the Emprah if he was near, planned or not.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

SGMAlice said:


> Do all souls not get absorbed by the Warp anyway? Or was this 'soul destroying blow' a way around that?


It was probably supposed to kill off Horus forever, but knowing GW they may change their minds at some point.

...I wonder if Matt Ward is writing the CSM dex? :hang1: (It's a joke, don't eat me!)


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Eh, it's a good question. Besides the cop-out answer of "The Chaos Gods are fickle and unpredictable", there must be some semi-logical reasoning. The first thing that comes to my mind is the perhaps Horus had not served long enough to ascend. Even for the most favored of mortals, the path to daemonhood is a long one (which does make me wonder if the process could ever be sped up). After his defeat, his soul was destroyed, so he could not continue the path in the Warp. Another thing to consider is that Abaddon is the greatest servant of Chaos Undivided, yet he is still mortal for reasons that CotE mentioned. Should he perish, he would likely become a Daemon Prince, though I'm not sure if such a thing exists for Chaos Undivided.

As for a "good" equivalent of a Daemon Prince, well, there isn't one besides the Emperor, or perhaps Ynnead if the Eldar's prophecy comes true (and even then, it would only be able to slay Slaanesh). There are very powerful mortals fighting Chaos, but no "gods" exist that would be able to challenge the Ruinous Powers - except, of course, Chaos itself. An old god once existed, Malal, which signified Chaos's tendency to destroy itself. I'm not sure why it was retconned out, as I think it makes a lot of sense, though perhaps the Great Game rendered it unnecessary.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Basically what happened was:

The Emperor couldn't really bring himself to kill Horus, despite his betrayal, this allowed Horus to wound the Emperor with the injuries that caused his internment on the Golden Throne.

Supposedly the Emperor would have let Horus kill him it seems, because it was only the death of a Guardsman called Ollanious Pious (this has probably been updated to a Custode or high ranking person ... maybe Loken some day) that snapped the Emperor out of his daze, and made him realize Horus was just pure evil.

(I'd like to take a moment to point out that by this stage Horus had strangled Sanguinius, so why the death of a guardsman/custode mattered is beyond me.)

Basically, the Emperor then charged up and incredibly powerful psychic attack, so powerful, that all four Chaos Gods removed their energies from Horus so that the attack wouldn't spill out and damage them as well.

This meant that the energy blast was so powerful (on a psychic level) that the Gods of Chaos were actually scared of it. 

After the Gods had retreated, Horus was actually back to his pre-Heresy self for a few moments, but the Emperor probably couldn't risk it, or was too angry and killed him anyway. 

This attack completely obliterated the life force/soul/energy that made up Horus, destroying every trace of that energy for all eternity. 

However we do know that it left his body intact, as Abaddon was able to remove his fallen Primarch's claw, and the Son's of Horus, kept the corpse in the Eye of Terror, and it was eventually stolen by Fabius Bile and the Emperor's Children. 



So that's why Horus never ascended to Daemonhood, he was literally obliterated by the Emperor, the very substance that made up his 'being' was destroyed, so there was nothing to save or bring back. 





Another possible theory (my own) is that Horus had kind of already become better than a Daemon Prince, or at least a Daemon Prince in all but name.

Let's remember that all four Chaos Gods had buffed Horus with extra powers, and that's really the only reason he was so powerful (although he still couldn't beat the Emperor). So maybe he had already ascended to the point of becoming as powerful as possible without WANTING to transcend into a fully fledged Daemon Prince.

Abaddon has been able to reject ascension, so maybe Horus thought the idea was daft, and maybe the other Primarch's only accepted ascension because they had been defeated militarily and had nothing to lose by accepting Daemonhood.


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

Haskanael said:


> we need a chaos god of order!





Chompy Bits said:


> Oddly, a chaos god of order could make sense.



Malal, he wants to destroy chaos from what I gather. but get his power from chaos so once the 4 chaos gods were gone he would also disappear.
maybe bringing a bit of order?

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malal


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

D-A-C said:


> (I'd like to take a moment to point out that by this stage Horus had strangled Sanguinius, so why the death of a guardsman/custode mattered is beyond me.)


It may be because the Emperor did not see it, unlike the death of the guardsman/space marine/custode. If I remember from the older stuff I read, Horus didn't just kill this individual but he flayed him like a Necron gauss weapon would. Stripping the individual down at the molecular level and keeping him alive to suffer every bit of it.

Honestly, it doesn't matter how much you love someone, how much you don't want to believe certain things. In the face of such evil, to the point where the aggressor is deriving some form of pleasure from it (as I remember Horus was smiling as he did this) there really is no coming back.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Says who?


Well, no one really. But to me it fits with how he's been portrayed in the series so far. Even without including the Cabal prophecy form _Legion_. I mean look at _Nemesis_ and the short story involving the that Ultramarine and Salamander in _Age of Darkness_. The guy wiped out entire planets and annihilated sectors to prove a point. How long can something last when its ruler actively takes a large part in destroying it. Horus was completely gone by the end, to the point of killing off his closest brother. I don't think even a victory over the Emperor would have curbed his new found bloodlust. And once you wipe out all the xenos, what's left? 


But hey, this is just my opinion.


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## SonofMalice (Feb 5, 2012)

jimmy gunn said:


> Malal, he wants to destroy chaos from what I gather. but get his power from chaos so once the 4 chaos gods were gone he would also disappear.
> maybe bringing a bit of order?
> 
> http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malal


Malice/Malal is supposed to represent Chaos' inherent tendency towards self-destruction so it isn't really that he is an ordered being so much as a Chaos hating (ironically) Chaos god. What fragments about him exist state that their is no love lost between Malice /Malal and the Imperium (his chosen CSMs, the Sons of Malice :grin:, actually allied with Abaddon during fail crusade 13) 

On topic. D-A-C has the right of it, according the recent material the Emperor specifically used a psychic attack so powerful that it wiped Horus from existence specifically to prevent his return as a demon puppet of the Dark Gods. That power interestingly enough has popped up in the Grey Knight Arsenal as Holocaust which is supposed to do the exact same thing (albeit at lower power levels).


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

My own thoughts is that Horus didn't worship Chaos. Chaos was merely a means to an end--overthrowing the Father he felt betrayed him and creating an Empire free of false idols (namely the Emperor).


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

SGMAlice said:


> I can understand him not being ascended before or during the Heresy but why not afterwards? when he was struck down?


As has been said, because his soul was utterly wiped from existence by the Emperor's strike. All that remained of Horus after the Siege of Terra was a lifeless corpse.



SGMAlice said:


> Do all souls not get absorbed by the Warp anyway? Or was this 'soul destroying blow' a way around that?


The lore suggests that all (with minimal exceptions) souls are delivered into the warp upon death. But the Emperor erased Horus's soul, there was nothing for the gods to ascend.



Davidicus 40k said:


> Should he perish, he would likely become a Daemon Prince, though I'm not sure if such a thing exists for Chaos Undivided.


Lorgar and Perturabo?



D-A-C said:


> Abaddon has been able to reject ascension


That was the theory of a crazed Imperial scholar - but it is not certain.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

It would seem i have a definitive answer to my query
Thank You all for your input.
+Rep to the deserving 

SGMAlice


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

Haskanael said:


> we need a chaos god of order!


Guess what happens when the Emperor's body finally dies?


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

From what I'm getting here and already know, The Chaos Gods feared the Emperor, at least to some degree. At his height, the Emperor could easily send Daemons back into the Warp with minimal effort. He ws the most powerful Psyker in the galaxy. (I find that odd, given humanity is merely on the verge of Psychic evolution, making Psykers a rare mutation. Meanwhile, the Eldar have had Psychic ability much longer and yet the Emperor was better.)

As it is, the Chaos Gods see humanity as pawns and tools or even food. And at the very least, Tzeentch can see the future. It is possible that the Chaos Gods knew the outcome of the battle between Emperor and Horus before they even turned him to Chaos. They needed a tool to severely weapon the Emperor.

From what friends have told me, the Emperor had big plans for the Webway and possibly taking control of the Warp. But that is speculative for the most part. And I think the Chaos Gods retreating their power from Horus illustrates both their fear of the Emperor and their view of Horus as nothing but a tool, as he had already critically wounded the Emperor. Furthermore, page 7 of Codex: Blood Angels describes Horus as a monster, far stronger than Sanguinius ever had been. 

This leads me to believe that the remaining traitor Primarchs would have reluctantly chosen ascension to Daemonhood. A Primarch has to be at least as powerful as a Daemon Prince. We have Daemon Prince models for the game but, in my opinion, no Primarch-level models. Perhaps "ascension" is really a step down for a Primarch. They may become basically immortal but manifesting in real space is not particularly easy.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I say he was not made a warp being because of the crippling limitation that come with it.
They wanted a champion that could strike at the heart of the imperium a place where the influence of the warp was greatly weakened for a number of reasons. That and the gods probably know their best bet was to play on the emperors weakness, and if horus came as a warp entity the kinship that held the emperors power at bay for most of the fight would never have come in to play.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Yeah, his freedom in realspace would be pretty restricted if he ascended to daemonhood


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Diatribe1974 said:


> Guess what happens when the Emperor's body finally dies?


The most credible potential consequence would be that without the Emperor's protection the warp would engulf realspace - given that that is the stated result of the Emperor's death in at least two codicies. 



LukeValantine said:


> and if horus came as a warp entity the kinship that held the emperors power at bay for most of the fight would never have come in to play.


That's also a good point to take into account.


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

Archon Dan said:


> He ws the most powerful Psyker in the galaxy. (I find that odd, given humanity is merely on the verge of Psychic evolution, making Psykers a rare mutation. Meanwhile, the Eldar have had Psychic ability much longer and yet the Emperor was better.)


Well remember the Emperor was a normal man randomly born with incredible power. He was the reincarnation of the combined souls of those shamans that sought to guide humanity's path. The combined souls of dozens of powerful psykers in a single entity would be something formidable in its power.



> And at the very least, Tzeentch can see the future.


Well not quite. In Kairos the Fateweaver's page in the Chaos Daemon Codex it explains that not even Tzeentch can see the future with crystal clarity because it's simply too utterly massive with all the possibilities of what could happen for even him to comprehend. In fact Tzeentch hates that he cannot see the future with absolute certainty.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

> Basically, the Emperor then charged up and incredibly powerful psychic attack, so powerful, that all four Chaos Gods removed their energies from Horus so that the attack wouldn't spill out and damage them as well.
> 
> This meant that the energy blast was so powerful (on a psychic level) that the Gods of Chaos were actually scared of it.


Where does it say this?


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Akatsuki13 said:


> Well remember the Emperor was a normal man randomly born with incredible power. He was the reincarnation of the combined souls of those shamans that sought to guide humanity's path. The combined souls of dozens of powerful psykers in a single entity would be something formidable in its power.


This is old fluff that has been retconed out, claiming "at worst these theories could be considered complete fabrication brought about by Tzeentchian Cultists and the lies of Chaos, as the Inquisition has decreed."


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Wusword77 said:


> This is old fluff that has been retconed out, claiming "at worst these theories could be considered complete fabrication brought about by Tzeentchian Cultists and the lies of Chaos, as the Inquisition has decreed."


Of course, because the Inquisition is much more trustworthy.


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## VX485 (Feb 17, 2011)

As far as i know, Horus was manipulated into becoming an agent of chaos, he thought he was the puppeteer in this saga but he was the one who was being played. 

Horus was also destroyed mind body and soul utterly by the Emperor


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

Haskanael said:


> we need a chaos god of order!


You mean Nurgle? Because he already exists.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

Chaos God of order is a bit of an oxymoron. Anyway I believe that in truth the use of the Primarchs as vessels for the Chaos powers was an actual tactic. Beings of both realspace and the warp that can harbor the combined power of the gods would be very beneficial.I'm not sure how much Abbaddon weilds if greater or lesser. To make him a warp entity would have made him something that would need massive amounts of energy to maintain himself on top of leading the rebellion.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> Where does it say this?


Sorry about the delay, I don't own a copy of the collected visions, but my friend does, in it it states (regarding the battle between Horus and the Emperor):

*(As a side note) The the guardsman of the original fluff has indeed been retconned into a custode (much more sensible IMO)*



(After Horus killed the custode):

_Now [the Emperor] knew that there was only one way he could end this. The Grip of the Chaos gods was too strong, their claws sunk too deeply into Horus's soul. The Emperor must kill his favoured son to break their hold on him. He must strike one deadly blow. He knew he would get no other chance.

The Emperor used the brief respite won for him by the death of his bodyguard to gather his wits. Mustering every iota of his concentration, he forced his psychic might into a bolt of pure force, more coherent than a laser, more destructive than an exploding sun...

The Emperor's psychic bolt struck the Warmaster. Horus screamed as destruction rained down on him, he twisted and writhed in titanic agony. He strove frantically to counter the Emperor's deathblow but his struggles became ever more feeble as the lethal energies played over him. Driven by all the force of his rage and pain and hatred the Emperor willed Horus's death. He sensed the forces of Chaos retreat, disengaging themselves from their pawn. As they did so, sanity returned to the Warmaster. The Emperor saw the realisation of the atrocities he had commited flicker across Horus's face. Tears glistened there. 

p365 of the Horus Heresy Collected Visions


_Hope that helps.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

_@D-A-C_: But the _CV_ does not state that the Emperor's onslaught would have somehow damaged the Chaos Gods or that they were scared of it. If the Emperor was somehow capable of damaging the gods with a direct attack, do you not think he would have done it prior to his duel with Horus? I believe thats what _Serp_ was getting at. 



D-A-C said:


> *(As a side note) The the guardsman of the original fluff has indeed been retconned into a custode (much more sensible IMO)*


Although since _Know No Fear_ it again seems that it will be Ollanius Pius.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> _@D-A-C_: But the _CV_ does not state that the Emperor's onslaught would have somehow damaged the Chaos Gods or that they were scared of it. I believe thats what _Serp_ was getting at.


Yeah but it states '_He sensed the forces of Chaos retreat, disengaging themselves from their pawn.'

_Now, I could be making a leap of judgement, but this indicates to me a certain reluctance by the Chaos Gods to have anything to do with Horus as he was under assault by the Emperor's psychic bolt. To me it sounds like it was so powerful it was a possible danger to them.

The Bolt didn't drive them from Horus, it 'made them retreat' which is a totally differnt thing.

People might suggest the Gods were done with Horus and they had achieved what they were after (constant strife within the Imperium / the defeat of the Emperor's plans of conquest), but I've never taken that to be the case. 

I belive they wanted Horus to win outright and turn all the galaxy outside of the Warp into one big Chaos dominion. People are putting waaayyy too much emphasis on the Cabal's 'vision'. But that's getting off topic slightly.

As I said, to me, that sentence sounds like the Gods thought to themselves 'bugger this I'm off!' whenever the Emperor charged his concentrated psychic bolt of destruction. 



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Although since _Know No Fear_ it again seems that it will be Ollanius Pius.


Haven't read it yet, so without spiling too much, I'm guessing he is a guardsman in the book? Or is that now the name of a Custode?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

CotE has my point exactly. 

If the Emperor was indeed capable of battling the Chaos Gods I imagine he would have. This strikes me as more a case of the gods choosing to withdraw their power from a doomed pawn rather than have it lost. In a similar manner to when they reabsorb a daemonic servant. 

I will not speculate as to their reasoning, but I do not believe it was done out of fear, and I do not believe the Emperor could have actually harmed them.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> CotE has my point exactly.
> 
> If the Emperor was indeed capable of battling the Chaos Gods I imagine he would have. This strikes me as more a case of the gods choosing to withdraw their power from a doomed pawn rather than have it lost. In a similar manner to when they reabsorb a daemonic servant.
> 
> I will not speculate as to their reasoning, but I do not believe it was done out of fear, and I do not believe the Emperor could have actually harmed them.


If the Emperor had the power to completely destroy Horus' soul it is not implausible that he could have destroyed whatever power the vested within Horus' form with the same attack.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

True. But if they had seen he was already lost, I imagine they would have preferred to save their energy rather than needlessly lose it.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

They went with Luther after Horus. When that failed they saw Abbaddon as the next guy and he's been their MVP since.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Deadeye776 said:


> They went with Luther after Horus. When that failed they saw Abbaddon as the next guy and he's been their MVP since.


I disagree that such emphasis should be placed on Luther, the Calibanite betrayal was an afterthought in terms of the wider Heresy. Horus was the champion of the gods, he was the one who brought the Imperium to it's knees and forced the Emperor to ascend to the Golden Throne. Luther festered heresy within a single Legion that did not manifest until after the Siege of Terra and which was subsequently rooted out, he cannot be compared to Horus.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I disagree that such emphasis should be placed on Luther, the Calibanite betrayal was an afterthought in terms of the wider Heresy. Horus was the champion of the gods, he was the one who brought the Imperium to it's knees and forced the Emperor to ascend to the Golden Throne. Luther festered heresy within a single Legion that did not manifest until after the Siege of Terra and which was subsequently rooted out, he cannot be compared to Horus.


Just to build on C-O-T-E thought, think of what someone like Erebus managed to achieve, he has Horus' ear, he was responsible for his turning to the Dark Gods, I think Luther comes of poorly compared to some of the other characters. Even mono-God followers such as Ahriman, Kharn, Lucius and Typhus would be more powerful than Luther IMO.

Plus the current Luther isn't the same one that turned part of the Dark Angels, and its implied that he has his own agneda, which is killing the Emperor, so that he may be reborn. He views the Throne as a tomb holding the Emperor back.




Serpion5 said:


> If the Emperor was indeed capable of battling the Chaos Gods I imagine he would have. This strikes me as more a case of the gods choosing to withdraw their power from a doomed pawn rather than have it lost. In a similar manner to when they reabsorb a daemonic servant.
> 
> I will not speculate as to their reasoning, but I do not believe it was done out of fear, and I do not believe the Emperor could have actually harmed them.





Serpion5 said:


> True. But if they had seen he was already lost, I imagine they would have preferred to save their energy rather than needlessly lose it.


They have no reason to remove their power from a mortal just because he is about to fail. Many followers of Chaos are gifted with power and in the moment of their demise they are not suddenly denied access to it.

If the Emperor couldn't hurt the Gods of Chaos why bother retreating your power from Horus, it won't make any difference? But then again, if the Emperor couldn't hurt the Chaos God's why bother with the Heresy? 

I think the Emperor was more than capable of doing damage to the Chaos God's psychicly due to his immense power, and he was only getting stronger as time went on, and that's why the step in when they did. He couldn't defeat them permanantly at that point, but he could definately cause them harm.

Don't forget the Emperor could bvanish rooms full of eventhe most powerful Daemons with the blink of an eye, and was able to defend his labratory on Terra for years against significant daemonic incursion (albiet by devoting most of his power to the task), but that means he was literally holding back the entire legions of chaos daemons from spilling into Terra.

I think maybe you are underestimating just how powerful the attack designed to kill Horus really was. Think of it as the Gods protecting themselves from any 'spillover' more than being worried about a direct attack that would permanatly hurt them. They don't want any potential psychic energy spilling over into their domains and damaging them, even momentarily.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

D-A-C said:


> Plus the current Luther isn't the same one that turned part of the Dark Angels, and its implied that he has his own agneda, which is killing the Emperor, so that he may be reborn. He views the Throne as a tomb holding the Emperor back.


*cough* That's Cypher *cough*


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> *cough* That's Cypher *cough*


Oh man, I'm such an idiot sometimes. I'm tempted to go back and edit my post so I don't sound like a tool, but then, I wouldn't learn anything if I did that. 

To be fair, my knowledge is mainly about Chaos, and then various bits and pieces regarding the other races. 

This will just have to spur me on to re-read _Descent of Angels _which I actually really enjoyed first time round.

Once again, whoops.


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

Chaos doesnt want to win. Chaos never wanted to win. If Chaos won, there would be no more chaos. The 4 gods would not get near the support they used to, making them very small factors on the galaxy. 

The current great war falls right into their hands. The Imperium has enough to fight back but not to win. This creates an endless war making the gods grow more and more powerful as long as the war continues.


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

not important. Horus fulfilled his purpose by mortally wounding the emperor, thusly depriving the IMPERIUM (not emperor. sorry, I'm a little sleep-deprived at the moment) of a true leader and initiating its slow downward spiral into intellectual darkness and technological regression. Horus created an environment that will feed the dark gods for ages, and actually increase their power greatly once the emperor dies if what the rulebook says is right.


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## stalarious (Aug 25, 2011)

Well the way I see it, The tool did its job and they didnt see a need to bring him back.
Why fix a broken tool if your never gonna use it again.

Now if the emperor ever came back then you can bet the Gods of chaos will bring him back.


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