# Space Marines, Religion, Cult of the Emperor?



## GWLlosa (Sep 27, 2009)

I was under the impression that Space Marines, in general, still followed the "Imperial Truth" of the Emperor (i.e., the view that all religion is false, and there are no gods) because that's what they were taught to believe by him personally back in the day. 

I know that after the Battle for Terra, and especially after the dust settled on the Heresy proper, the Lecto Divinicus (sp?), which espoused worship of the Emperor himself as a divine figure, became the official faith of the Imperium. I didn't think that applied to the Space Marines, though. 

I was especially thrown off because I was playing the latest Dawn of War II Expansion, "Chaos Rising". I know alot of people don't care for the game for various reasons, but it is officially canon and whatnot, and GW supposedly reviewed it for correctness. At several points in the game, when your Blood Ravens are in combat, they shout things that sound distinctively "Lecto Divinicus" flavored, like:

"For the Emperor!"
"Remember the Primarchs! They watch over us still!"
"I go now to join the Emperor!'
etc.etc.

So the question is, what exactly is the religious standard for Space Marines? Does it differ from chapter to chapter? Do they tolerate any presence/influence from the Ecclesiarchy?


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## Zenith_of_Mind (Mar 12, 2010)

I think that beliefs and doctrines vary from chapter to chapter, but generally, Space Marines do not consider the Emperor to be a god. They consider him to be the father of mankind, the most capable mortal ever and like a father to them. But not god. 

Only the Word Bearers considered him to be a god, and we all know what that led to.

For that reason, most chapters are not on good terms with Ecclesiarchy or the Inquisition. For the things you mentioned:


> "For the Emperor!"
> "Remember the Primarchs! They watch over us still!"
> "I go now to join the Emperor!'
> etc.etc.


These are normal battle cries. For instance, the Space Wolves think that when they die their spirits go to the Emperor's hall (based on Valhalla). This even may be true, because of the Emperor's omnipotent powers.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Zenith_of_Mind said:


> I think that beliefs and doctrines vary from chapter to chapter, but generally, Space Marines do not consider the Emperor to be a god. They consider him to be the father of mankind, the most capable mortal ever and like a father to them. But not god.
> 
> Only the Word Bearers considered him to be a god, and we all know what that led to.
> 
> For that reason, most chapters are not on good terms with Ecclesiarchy or the Inquisition. For the things you mentioned:


Indeed. As _Zenith_ said, I imagine it would generally vary from Chapter to Chapter, but for the most part I would say that no, Astartes do not worship the Emperor as a god. Especially the First Founding Chapters. But I imagine there are also a handful of chapters that actually do.

That being said though, there are a fair few examples of Astartes worshipping the Emperor as a god in recent publications. The White Consuls in _Dark Creed_ for example. 



Zenith_of_Mind said:


> because of the Emperor's omnipotent powers.


Hardly omnipotent..


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

if the astartes dont worship the emperor then why are they always flippin praying.
I dont mean the blood angels cause well we all know why they pray


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## Tel Asra Nejoar (Mar 16, 2010)

astartes and the mechanicum are exempt from imperial faith. the astartes have a form of ancestor worship for the most part, not as gods but as forbears whom embody all that is strong and pure in mankind, and stand a step below the emperor in importance. most dig guilliman as their ancestor, though sanguinus is also much venerated. to them the emperor is a man who made the ultimate sacrifice for humanity, not alive and powerful, yet not allowed the rest of death. thats how i see it anywho.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The Astartes as has been stated, for the most part, don't worship the Emperor or their Primarch as Gods- they pray to them but more to centre their minds/humours (plus it's part of their physiology requiring hypno-suggestive conditions for the correct running of their implants) and as Tel Asra Nejoar said a form of ancestor worship. They want the heroes of the past to recognise their feats but they don't expect to be aided like say an Adeptus Sororitas would.

Some Chapters *do* believe in the Emperor as a God though, most notably the Grey Knights and Black Templars.


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## Twisted (Mar 11, 2010)

You have to be careful about using the words worship and venerate.

Most that practice it would say ancestor veneration and not ancestor worship, although in some languages the two may not be distinguished. The problem is that the word worship brings up connotations of godliness and divinity, as if praying to a thing that never really had any physical form to start with.

Where as ancestor veneration on the other hand is to show respect to those that have gone before us. Quite often it seems that ancestor veneration has a lot to do with duty to ones lineage.


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## Lord Hunsadia (Apr 30, 2009)

I may be wrong but I seem to recall the phrase "God-Emperor" being used in the Ultramarine omnibus by Graham McNeill.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lord Hunsadia said:


> I may be wrong but I seem to recall the phrase "God-Emperor" being used in the Ultramarine omnibus by Graham McNeill.


That's actually a fairly accurate description of the Emp. Both God and Emperor to mankind. To be honest in any sort of galaxy spanning ten thousand year Empire uniting the priesthood and secular power behind one figure is the only practical and sensible choice if you want Humanity to show any kind of unity. 

Don't believe me? Read Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune. Similar concept with far more philosophy. The Big E is basically a more super powered version of Leto Atreides anyway :so_happy:

And what was the title of Leto Atreides? Yep God-Emperor.


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## Twisted (Mar 11, 2010)

Coder59 said:


> Don't believe me? Read Dune...


I was wondering if someone was going to mention Dune with the words god-emperor standing out from the page.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

getting back to the OP, i think that is where you find some of your rifts when it comes to the Heresy. Obviously i'm paraphrasing, as i know there are more complex reasons that the Horus Heresy took place, but part of the reason there was division was in the fact that the Emperor preached that there is no religion there are no gods. And then turns and declares himself as a god, and demands that people follow him fervently. Obviously this is highly hypocritical, and therefore was one of many reasons that certain legions turned against the Emperor and went rogue/sided with Horus. Some not necessarily turning completely to the Chaos Gods, however still retaining the Emperor's original portents of "no gods at all." does this make sense?

CP


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## Garven Dreis (Oct 26, 2009)

I didn't think the Emperor demanded feverant worship of him en masse, the only Legion to have done this was the Word Bearers, and to my understanding, they were punished several times for taking the worship way too far.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

Thing I don't get is, worship is required of most organizations in the Imperium, and the Astartes aren't born space marines. So at some point the potential space marines must worship the Emperor.

That means when the recruits become astartes, the process either changes their minds to the point where they typically don't recognize the Emperor as a god worthy of worship, or they're told to knock it off. Faith is seemingly the one thing in the dictatorship that is the Imperium that brings the masses any amount of happiness, so if I'm told as a newly recruited astartes that I can't worship my god any more, I'm going to be pretty peeved.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

K3k3000 said:


> Thing I don't get is, worship is required of most organizations in the Imperium, and the Astartes aren't born space marines. So at some point the potential space marines must worship the Emperor.
> 
> That means when the recruits become astartes, the process either changes their minds to the point where they typically don't recognize the Emperor as a god worthy of worship, or they're told to knock it off. Faith is seemingly the one thing in the dictatorship that is the Imperium that brings the masses any amount of happiness, so if I'm told as a newly recruited astartes that I can't worship my god any more, I'm going to be pretty peeved.


I think the most logical solution to that would be that as the Ecclesiarchy doesn't interfere with Astartes business, they also don't interfere with Astartes Home/recruiting worlds, meaning that the humans on those worlds don't necessarily recognise the Emperor as a god, unless their Astartes Chapter does.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

That makes sense. Thanks CoTE! 

I'd rep you, but the site isn't letting me :-/


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I think the most logical solution to that would be that as the Ecclesiarchy doesn't interfere with Astartes business, they also don't interfere with Astartes Home/recruiting worlds, meaning that the humans on those worlds don't necessarily recognise the Emperor as a god, unless their Astartes Chapter does.


I think that's highly likely. It's also true that Astartes recruit from some pretty savage backwards cultures who may have through accident or design no "True" information about the Emperor. So It's not a huge jump of logic to imagine the Marines grabbing their recruits then during the indoctrination process showing them what the Emperor really was. 

Just look at Fenris they have Legends of the "Allfather" and the "Dark God" Horus.


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