# Attacking Ships in the Warp



## Unknown Soldier (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm writing up some fluff at the moment and I need to know if it is possible for a ship to intercept, attack or board another ship in the Warp?

Answers, theories, wild guesses all appreciated.

Thanks.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Probably not. I imagine that one ship's Geller Field encountering another would short both out - making it Daemon City in there.


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## The Blackadder (Jan 8, 2009)

This would be immpossible. Two ships travelling faster than light trying to remain together long enough to engage in a battle. They would be unlikly to get remotely close unless they both engaged their warp engines at the same time, had the same sppeed and were heading to the same coordinates.


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

They wouldn't even get close to each other. Then there is the problem of how to board. Teleports would require prefect calculations and would be more likely to send a unit of Termies into the nearest star than hit the ship, no missile boarding, the missiles couldn't keep up. Even fighting wouldn't work. I suppose technically they could ram each other, but they would never be close enough to do that, and it just ain't gonna happen.


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## dark angel (Jun 11, 2008)

In the book Star Of Damocles the rouge trader Lucian Gerrit and his ship find a navy ship, the Ajax and he wonders weather or not to board it after their comms signals get no reply so yes it probaly would be possible


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

In the warp, remember that you aren't travelling at the speed of light. This isn't hyper space, like Star Wars, this is moving to another plane of existence, where time moves differently, either faster or slower, depending on the moods of those who have control over it.

In the book Shadow Point, and most importantly, the Macharius, it states that you can - however, remember that you can drop out of the warp at any time, and then make another warp jump - Daemon helmed ships are far more likely to be accurate with it, and also last longer than human crew, due to the stresses involved.


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## Unknown Soldier (Oct 24, 2008)

Thank's for all of the replies.

Dark Angel and Vaz, that's kind of what I thought, it's a different dimension, so ships aren't travelling at FTL.

I'm glad that you've also provided references where it has happened in the past, makes it more fluff approved.

Now that we've established it's theoretically possible to intercept / attack / board another ship in the Warp, how would you find it?

E.g. The Imperium needs to find a rogue Imperial ship that has entered the Warp, could a team of Astropaths 'home in' on the Navigator piloting the rogue ship?

The way I'm imagining it, is that the Astropaths locate the Enemy Navigator through psychic means, relay this information to the Imperial Navigator who then guides his ship into the Warp to intercept the rogue vessel.

Once inside the Warp, the Imperial Navigator uses the 'currents' to take him to the enemy ship's position, whereupon he wakes the combat crew who use teleporters to beam over to the enemy ship.

Just to make it super funky, I imagined that half of the boarding party would go bonkers from witnessing the horrors of the Warp or that a few daemonic creatures phased in with the teleportation to create more problems.

Does this sound feasible?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

It's impossible to locate a ship trapped in the warp. You can provide a beacon to follow, should it be powerful enough (think nearly every psyker in the Imperium transported to Terra to power a Psychic Choir created by the Emperor, and also powered by himself), but a normal Navigator can't break through it.

A Daemon might - that's their home existence, after all - it's what enabled the Daemon Piloted Contagion (I think it was) to home in on the Lord Solar Macharius, of the Execution Hour novel.

The easiest way of getting the ships to meet in the warp, is when one drops out of warpspace in system. This means that the ship drops out, and the energy bleed from over loaded Gellar fields (warp defences), and then swoop in. The hunted ship emergency jumps, and then the others pile in following the same gateway that was opened up (of course, they naturally have to have warp drive capabilities, otherwise they wouldn't go through).

Then as the two fight in the warp, and drop in, and drop out, the battle could go on that way.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

In the not too distant past I read a story involving two ships docking in the warp. I've looked for the story, but can't put my hand it right now. I think it's in one of the stories in Galaxy in Flames. Anyway, the process involved closing really slowly, and synching the frequencies of the Gellar fields, where upon the two fields merged and covered both ships. I'll keep looking for the story.


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## Unknown Soldier (Oct 24, 2008)

Thank's for that Mr. Fist, if you can find it and it's 'canon-ish' then that would be perfect for my story.

Vaz - if the Navigator is using the Astronomicom, surely some sort of psychic signature must be left behind.

If ships can't be intercepted in the Warp, then it could be quite a massive security risk. Imagine filling a ship full of Cyclonic Torpedos or nukes and launching it on a suicide mission to Terra - all it would have to do is exit the Warp right next to the planet and kapow!

I'm not fully up on Terra's defences, so maybe the above scenario could never happen.

Thanks again.


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## The Blackadder (Jan 8, 2009)

My appologies, I was wrong about the speeds involved in warp travel. If it is slower than light then there is a chance they could meet and do battle. As to the idea of the suicide ships ships can be detected travelling and exitting the warp so they would merely point all their guns at the giant green hole and blast anything that came through it.


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## Searune (Apr 10, 2009)

Balckadder Pink hole not green and as far as I can tell you could have boarding operations and combat in the warp also the tyranid codex hints at it


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Tyranids can't travel through the warp, AFAIK. However, they come from outside the galaxy, which shows why they are able to invade the eastern fringe, or from beneath the Galaxies plane.

If anyone ever decided to warp in close enough to an enemy fleet, they're only going to do it either when there aren't as many guns (so couldn't be done on something like a Ramilies, or anything bigger i.e Port Maw) waiting, or it's in the middle of battle, when it would be too dangerous to get them in.

However, while some minor capital vessels might sacrifice them selves as bait, the ones that would do the most damage as suicide ships are tankers of ammunition and promethium.

As for the warp signature, it would be too faint - Navigators frequently burn themselves out, and only the slightest ***** is left open in the gellar field to allow the warp to pass through into the node. This stops things getting let out - such as a Psychic Signature, which means that Daemons can track it down, and break through into the ships interior. With it being such a small gap, the amount let out would require something that's clever enough, and strong enough to break it's way in (we're not talking flesh hounds here, we're talking flesh hounds the size of a titan).


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## kaled (Jun 24, 2008)

Vaz said:


> Tyranids can't travel through the warp, AFAIK.


The Tyranids are capable of warp travel - it's mentioned a couple of times in their codex. There's a mention of warp-capable scout-ships or drones or something, and elsewhere it talks about a hive fleet coming out of the warp just outside a system, then drifting towards the planets.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Yep, but they hibernate while they do it, I believe. That's what makes it so easy for cool Chapters like the Scythes and Mentors to board their ships and destroy the foul Xenos. I still don't think Imperial vessels can be boarded in the Warp however - _any_ disruption to the Geller Field and they literally have seconds to live. Doesn't mean you can't have a Warp pursuit scene where the ship's Captain is preparing to open fire when the Inquisitor decries the activity..."No, you fool! We need them alive! The Golden Throne protects, but it won't protect you from me if you disobey my orders again!" ...or, don't use a pantomime villain as the hero...


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## Unknown Soldier (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks again for the responses.

As feared, it looks like I'm going to have to do some research on the Warp and Gellar Fields.

My laziness really knows no bounds. This is a disaster.:biggrin:


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## Searune (Apr 10, 2009)

The gellar field is a bubble or reality so in a sense they would not pop like two bubbles touching each other also you cannot pop a bubble with the soapy end of you bubble wand


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## Lord of Rebirth (Jun 7, 2008)

While it sounds like an easy way to commit suicide it could work. I think it was in Flight of the Eisenstien (I'm rereading it right now actually so if I finish it or come across what I was thinking about I'll come back with some citing.) that two ships are connected in the warp and there was a whole problem that the one was infested with daemons, likely because it's gellar field broke, and there is some issue with them using the joint hatches to board the other ship. Now that I think about it it might have been in Battle for the Abyss so if anyone wants to read that to check please do so since that book sucks....


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Searune said:


> The gellar field is a bubble or reality so in a sense they would not pop like two bubbles touching each other also you cannot pop a bubble with the soapy end of you bubble wand


Not if they had different frequencies. Star Trek is a better example, it's an energy field, not a literal bubble.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

Lord of Rebirth said:


> While it sounds like an easy way to commit suicide it could work. I think it was in Flight of the Eisenstien (I'm rereading it right now actually so if I finish it or come across what I was thinking about I'll come back with some citing.) that two ships are connected in the warp and there was a whole problem that the one was infested with daemons, likely because it's gellar field broke, and there is some issue with them using the joint hatches to board the other ship. Now that I think about it it might have been in Battle for the Abyss so if anyone wants to read that to check please do so since that book sucks....


I remember that but I think it is in Flight on the Eisenstien.
In Battle for Abyss they do drop a mine in the warp to slow down the ships following them.


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## Fallen Angel Sammael (Jun 18, 2009)

No i would think it is impossible for any ship to attack another ship while in warp.


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## The Architect Of Fate (Apr 21, 2009)

In the warp, you are always moving. Not only that, but you are going faster than light. The chances for two ships in the warp to intercept within even the lowest quantity of time possible, with warp eddies and waves, is so close to zero I would say that it would not happen in this universe's lifetime. And, given that, if you fire missiles, bombs, or lasers at your target, they would be going at the exact same speed as you, so you would have no chance of reaching your target. As for boarding, any attempt to launch a ship or shuttle from a launching bay would have the same result as the missiles and bombs. It is simply not feasible. Not only that, but since this is the realm of utter absolution of purpose, the laws of chance do not apply in the warp, making such an events possibility exactly zero.

EDIT: Technically, you would be traveling faster than light if you compare the distances involved to get from one point in the universe to another in a certain amount of time.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

ok i just finsihed reading battle for the abyss. now seeing the HH is 'supposed' to be cannon we can take examples of what happened in that as truth? yeah?

1. while following the _furious abyss _in the warp, the good guys ship _wrathful_ actually docks with the ship _fireblade_ in the warp. although at the time of docking the fireblade was already infested with chaos and had no gellar bubble going so as far as a gellar field vs gellar field docking goes i dont know.

2. the _furious abyss _doesnt actually 'attack' the other ships in the warp, but it does drop a physic mine (full of dying psykers) into the warp which exploded and sent the warp behind the abyss into a massive storm which claimed the ship _fireblade_ even with a gellar field. so i guess the only way to attack someone in the warp is by disturbing the warp around them with physic attacks?


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

Well.... There are ways around it. In one BL novel that I've read a group of Ork Weirdboys sat in a shuttle stationary in the Warp and when the Imperial fleet passed they did some psychic mumbo jumbo and dragged them all out into real space. Unfortunately to do it they needed to be close to the warp so had no protection and were all gobbled up by Daemons in pretty short order. . .


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

The Design team have stated the HH books aren't actually canon...anything in a future BRB or 'Dex that contradicts it is, though.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

TheKingElessar said:


> The Design team have stated the HH books aren't actually canon...anything in a future BRB or 'Dex that contradicts it is, though.


Funny that. On the BL forums last year it was stated several times that anything published by them is canon.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Really? Hmmm. Well, since I heard that, they may have changed their minds, but I can't remember when I was first told that...though I think it was last year, strangely enough. Internal power struggle perhaps? 

Interesting.


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## kaled (Jun 24, 2008)

TheKingElessar said:


> The Design team have stated the HH books aren't actually canon...anything in a future BRB or 'Dex that contradicts it is, though.


I've heard a lot of people say that they've heard that BL books are not canonical, but so far no one has been able to quote a verifiable source for the statement. On the other hand, there are plenty of statements to the effect that BL novels are part of the canon.

Remember, canon means 'official', it doesn't mean 'true'. It's perfectly possible for something in a codex , BL novel or rulebook to be a myth, lie or half-lie even though it is canonical.

In _Draco_, the Inquisitor's ship docks with a hulk adrift in the warp, so if they do it in _BftA _too then I'd say there's enough evidence that it's possible for the OP to have such an incident in his fluff - just make up some techno-babble about modulating Gellar field frequencies or something.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

The Architect Of Fate said:


> In the warp, you are always moving. Not only that, but you are going faster than light. The chances for two ships in the warp to intercept within even the lowest quantity of time possible, with warp eddies and waves, is so close to zero I would say that it would not happen in this universe's lifetime. And, given that, if you fire missiles, bombs, or lasers at your target, they would be going at the exact same speed as you, so you would have no chance of reaching your target. As for boarding, any attempt to launch a ship or shuttle from a launching bay would have the same result as the missiles and bombs. It is simply not feasible. Not only that, but since this is the realm of utter absolution of purpose, the laws of chance do not apply in the warp, making such an events possibility exactly zero.
> 
> EDIT: Technically, you would be traveling faster than light if you compare the distances involved to get from one point in the universe to another in a certain amount of time.


The whole idea of the Warp is that it bypasses the need for FTL, the warp is a separate dimension where time, space and matter are different. 
Also, in the HH book Tales of Heresy, a ship docks with another in the warp, they have to align the Geller fields but they do it.

As for the actual idea of firing on ships in the warp I suppose it should be possible and would open up a whole stack of possible outcomes.
It could just work, shells rocket between the two ships as they navigate a terrible warp storm, tearing whole in their Geller fields as well at their hulls.
Or you could run with the idea, maybe the shells, as soon as they hit raw warp energy, are turned into screaming half Daemons, filled with the hatred of the ships gunners. They tear through the warp, gaining power until they hit the other ship where they explode in a firestorm of hatred and malice, destroying the souls of the ships crew.
Or maybe they just get mutated into evil warp chickens that do no real damage but make a terrible squawking sound.... 

The thing to keep in mind is that the Warp is not a logical place, physics has no relevance and logic is anathema.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

In the Tales of Heresy story, "The Voice", we get to see ships docking whilst in the warp. The one ship is stationary, and is also using a powerful beacon to allow it to be found. The other ship has to come in really close to it so that the two Gellar Fields actually join together to form a "reality bubble" that covers both ships. This allows a shuttle, with no Geller Shielding, to cross between the two ships without being overrun by daemons etc.
When it comes to firing at other ships during warp travel, I don't think it would be safe to do, if not actually impossible. The way I see it, if you fire your weapons _through_ the Geller Field then you might cause it to collapse either totally or locally. Either way it means you iz teh skrewed!
As for HH books, or at least books set in the 30k era, that show ships docking normally whilst in the warp, it could be that the technology is lost by 40k or just that there is too much distrust of the systems for them to be used.

GFP


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## Eliphas (Jun 23, 2009)

Wouldn't Chaos controlled ships at least have a better opertunity to attack? Since they don't have to worry about gellar fields, could they at least make a decent attempt at ruptureing the unfortunate Imperial ship's field?


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## Crimson_Chin (Feb 20, 2009)

I would be damned afraid of shooting ANYTHING while in the warp, with my luck I'd hit a greater demon in the asshole and inspire it to eat my ship.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Crimson_Chin said:


> with my luck I'd hit a greater demon in the asshole and inspire it to eat my ship.


if it was a slaanesh daemmy he'd probably like that!


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## kaled (Jun 24, 2008)

Eliphas said:


> Wouldn't Chaos controlled ships at least have a better opertunity to attack? Since they don't have to worry about gellar fields, could they at least make a decent attempt at ruptureing the unfortunate Imperial ship's field?


Chaos ships still need to be protected from the warp, whether that be with gellar fields, arcane sorcery or something else. A powerful patron might be able to protect you from malevolent warp entities, but the warp itself is corrosive to any ships that travel within it as the laws of physics that hold the ship together do not apply in the warp.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

As for Chaos ships in the warp, I think they need to be protected as well as Imperial ships. The warp isn't just the domain of daemons of the 4 Dark Gods, but there are also millions (billions?) of other...things out there that would devour all the souls aboard any ship they could infiltrate.
I don't know that this is the case, but maybe the Geller Field can actually help protect a ship during warp storms. I haven't read this anywhere, just an idea.

GFP


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## Unknown Soldier (Oct 24, 2008)

Hmm, some very interesting food for thought there. Thanks again for all of the well informed replies.

The Geller Field theories have really got me thinking? Imagine finding a Forge World floating in the Warp protected by a planet sized force field?

Norm - the missiles turning into daemons really tickled me, thanks for that. :biggrin:


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## kaled (Jun 24, 2008)

I don't know about an entire Forge World, but I can imagine an AdMech research station being located in the warp. In fact, that could be a great idea for an _Inquisitor _campaign...


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