# Versus Ork Warbikes



## Galahad

Versus: Week Twenty-Five​
They're fast, they're tough, armed to da teef and even well-armored (for orks). Warbikes represent a serious threat to almost any list, especially Nobz on bikes, with their multiple wounds and access to deadly wargear.

The only saving grace is that they are very expensive, even for orks, so loading up on them takes a lot away from the rest of the force. However, one or two good sized mobs can do some real damage, not to mention setting up a good cover screen for the rest of the army.

So how do you deal with a mob of jacked up orks (or Nobz) charging around on tooled up bike sand sporting cut-down big shootas...hell, they're TL so they'll even hit you more often than not.


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## Brian007

I just played an army of all bikes lead by the special character, painboss (for the feel no pain roll) and 1 unit of kopptas. Very fast and tough. This guy has been destroying every army he played and I knew I would play him so I made a list with my Tyranids to beat him. I had 2 tyrants with implant attacks and guards with implant attacks, 4 units of genestealers and 3 carnifexs with implant attacks. The monstrous creature took away saves/feel no pain and could handle the high toughness plus the implant attacks gave those nobz 2 wounds at a time and the rending from the genestealers took away the feel no pain/saves. Lets just say that it was a bad day for Wazdakka Gutsmek and da boyz!!!


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## LordWaffles

Brian007 said:


> I just played an army of all bikes lead by the special character, painboss (for the feel no pain roll) and 1 unit of kopptas. Very fast and tough. This guy has been destroying every army he played and I knew I would play him so I made a list with my Tyranids to beat him. I had 2 tyrants with implant attacks and guards with implant attacks, 4 units of genestealers and 3 carnifexs with implant attacks. The monstrous creature took away saves/feel no pain and could handle the high toughness plus the implant attacks gave those nobz 2 wounds at a time and the rending from the genestealers took away the feel no pain/saves. Lets just say that it was a bad day for Wazdakka Gutsmek and da boyz!!!


What if you were to have a very general list and tactics? Having formed your entire list to beat him isn't...exceedingly sportsmanlike.

As for the nobz on bikes, and orks in general, I'd suggest sarcrifical squads, with flamer counter-chargers to wipe up the mess. They're just orks on loud tricycles. Fire is still a cure-all for counter-chargers.

And a quick question, nobz with powerklaws are s9 on the charge? I'd say swamp them with lesser daemons or devote an exceptional amount of s8+ shots directly at them.

Or just play BT and carve them up


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## Brian007

Well the player wanted other players to try to beat him. He for what ever reason thought that his list could not be beat. So to make a list to beat him in my book was just fine. The original question was "how would you deal with this list". Well I did deal with it. So Lordwaffles if you can tell me that you never made a list to play against a certain army list then I will take your comment about me being unsportsman like but I don't think you can say that.


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## Cole Deschain

The rough part is the Toughness boost...

But you'll still do plenty of damage if you hit 'em with enough shots.

Cover OR Armor saves, in the final analysis, if there are bikes, there are never more than twelve per squad... so just shoot the bejesus out of them. Odds are good they're in front anyhow.

Their small squad cap means that their leadership plummets rapidly as they take casualties, so you don't even need to wipe a squad out- just inflict a FEW casualties and they can very likely be made to run.


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## Digg40k

Turn every single gun I can on them, the thought of having to face something like this scares me haha.


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## Leatharnak

Massed fire power direct at a single unit often destroy's that unit's fighting power. This is what I would recommend. Unless you were leading another horde of orks at the bikaz, in which case you run your sacrificial units in while you get a kan or dread on line to kleave them in twain and burn them with scorchas. Burnas would probably do pretty well too. Glorious power weapon flamethrowers!


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## Taggerung

I faced a mob of 6 nobs with a painboy mixed in on bikes. These guys are as people are saying are utterly nasty, especially since this guy also attached a warboss on a bike with them. I play marines, and even in CC they tore me to pieces. Toughness 5 makes them hard to handle even for marines. It also didn't help that we did dawn of war setup and on the first turn he was almost in CC range. It was rather sad, an entire army of marines shooting them only managed to kill 2 of the nobs. He came in on my lines decimated my 10 man tac squad and a terminator librarian who failed to cause any wounds. I even counter attacked with 10 assault marines and a chaplain, and caused 3 wounds...

It was a sad sad day for my army, and I called it on turn 3. The only saving grace is that in one turn my land raider rolled forward and blew up two battle wagons killing another 11 boys in the explosion.



In short, throw as much fire down range as you can especially ap1 ap2 stuff so you negate those feel no pain saves.


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## Steel Rain

This is a nightmare scenario for shooting armies like guard and tau. A tough CC unit mounted on bikes is hard for any army to take down. How do armies with little to no close combat ability take them down? I guess the answer is "Spray and Pray." Hit them with every single weapon that can fire at them. Maybe load up on conscripts and tie them down?


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## MaidenManiac

I have played 2 games vs the classical 10 retardnob-bikers unit with warbozz army and won both. 
Basically ive been shooting what i can afford each turn on them and tossed them backwards with LoS and DS a few Termies close to them as distraction. Yes those dies on the Ork turn for sure but its an easy and cheap bait for the Ork player to catch, which tend to happen each time. Even more likely if you have a heavy flamer and there is a squad of Lootaz close by, Ork players protect them madly 

In short i shoot them with heavy weapons that can be spared each turn to make sure that hits = dead if they dont save. I also try to distract/bait them with some cheap unit to buy time for more shooting.
Since units like nob bikerz are so extremly expensive they must outpreform themselves each game to give the player that fields them a chance of winning. Distract that, force him to kill cheap units with them, preferably behind his lines which forces him to move backwards instead of towards your main part of the army. When they do get close pick a unit for sacrifice and distance it from the rest of the army and let it die. Get some counterassault unit(s) ready reasonably close to countercharge whats left and mop up k:

If you play an CC army they will charge one unit and kill it, then die horribly on the countercharge when you gang up on them, no real problems there 

Normal Ork warbikes dies on heavy bolter eq fire, just plough in enough volume and they dissapear in a cloud of green goo just like all other Orks


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## Steel Nathan

I've never faced ork bikerz before, but they are nasty buggers (as we all agree on :wink. But then again, I've never faced the new orks before, or even orks in general for that matter  

Most people would just say "shoot them with lascannons", but what about turbo boost? Not only does it give them a serious ass cover save, but it makes them live longer, therefore getting bigger numbers in combat, and deadly for us! But I don't see a big worry about the regular orks on bikes, they're just everlasting annoying orks on faster transportation. The only thing added is that they have twin linked big shootas which can cause damage or heavy damage, depending on the unit they're shooting at . Now the Nobz, that's a completly different story :scare: 

The best thing to do with these guys for shooty armies (Tau, IG, Marines, Necrons) is to shoot them with the baddest, closest units you have. They have a save, thus they can fail them (eventually). The orks go pretty fast, so using rapid fire weapons is probably out of the question. Any smart player can postion the bikers to assault when they move up. While it may not be possible to eliminate all the ork bikerz from that squad, you can most certainly take out most of them to make them an easier target for Close Combat (despite being a shooty army). For the Nobz part, well chances are if the opponent has soupled up these guys, the rest of the army is probably at bit smaller than usual. That said, it won't be big of a problem if you use all or most of the possible firing units, because there wouldn't be much targets left to fire at. But with the Nobz, there are 3 very very very important things you must do before they enter combat and eat you. 

1) Pray to the dice gods 
2) Shoot the hell out of them
3) If you're failing the saves, then sacrifice the model for the Ork Nobz. Sometimes the Gods need a bit of entertainment :laugh: 

For Close Combat Armies... I guess the best thing to do is hold tight and fire at them with what you got to reduce the numbers, after all, numbers are everything in orks. While it may be almost impossible to charge the bikerz because of the lousy biker distance, WAAGHHH and charge (not sure if bikerz are affected by WAAGHHH or not), you still are able to get charged and then attack them on you're own turn. If you want, have some sort of weak, suicidal unit get charged, then after they die (if they do...), charge with your most prized units and kick the shit out of the green giant bastards. 

But also remember: They have the disadvanges of bikers. As in they are easily crashers and can die easily if they go into terrain. I've seen it before, 7 bikers enter terrain, 2 came out alive :laugh:


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## Spot The Grot

I would have to say land raider redeemer or a hellhound could do quite well as they have the required AP to do well and ignore the cover save unless they turbo boosted that is , you would have a problem.Then again the painboy can still give the unit feel no pain so the unit gets another 4+ save makiing them even tougher to kill.


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## Vaz

PlasmaGuns. Since when was T5 a problem for S7? Throw down rapid fire Plasma Guns/Plasma Cannons with the Blast.

Redeemer Cannons on a Land Raider will hurt them, as well as the Multimelta if bought.

Krak Missiles will hurt as always, and having a squad of MEQ's with a Rapid Fire and Missile Launcher with Plasma Gun = dead Orks.

Combat Marines - Chapter Master, Hellfire Rounds, CombiPlasma, LClaw and Storm Shield. Re-roll to wound, 3+ Invulnerable, 2+ wounding. Honour Guard, with Chapter Banner and Relic Blades, Sternguard with LClaws and Stormshield/Twin LClaws.

Backed by a squad of Sternguard, even at Long Range, they can fire AP4 shots at 30" range. Losing 2-3 bikers a turn from that squad is nasty enough for the Orks,when combined by a Charge of those three units.


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## Cato Sicarius

Heavy Flamers are probably a good choice. They ignore their Armour Saves due to the Ap and they ignore the Cover Saves. Then it's wound on 4+ so it's a pretty good chance of slaying two or three which may break the squad.


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## Steel Nathan

Cato Sicarius said:


> Heavy Flamers are probably a good choice. They ignore their Armour Saves due to the Ap and they ignore the Cover Saves. Then it's wound on 4+ so it's a pretty good chance of slaying two or three which may break the squad.


 Heavy Flamers would be an awesome choice but... it's pretty low ranged, and those bikerz will eat the flamer dudes even before you have a chance to fire. if the flamers came from a tank (and it lived/ was unharmed from the attacking nobz) then they would be ok, but otherwise flamers are pretty useless.


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## Spot The Grot

Yer if hey are nob bikers with a pain boy you would have problems too as they would still get feel no pain.Remeber they may have even turbo boosted so they get their invul.
You really have to aim a lot of fire power at them to kill them.


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## Steel Nathan

Spot The Grot said:


> Remeber they may have even turbo boosted so they get their invul.


Spot, remember that from Turbo Boosting, you get a cover save now, not an invun save :wink:


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## Galahad

Vaz said:


> PlasmaGuns. Since when was T5 a problem for S7? Throw down rapid fire Plasma Guns/Plasma Cannons with the Blast.
> 
> Redeemer Cannons on a Land Raider will hurt them, as well as the Multimelta if bought.
> 
> Krak Missiles will hurt as always, and having a squad of MEQ's with a Rapid Fire and Missile Launcher with Plasma Gun = dead Orks.
> 
> Combat Marines - Chapter Master, Hellfire Rounds, CombiPlasma, LClaw and Storm Shield. Re-roll to wound, 3+ Invulnerable, 2+ wounding. Honour Guard, with Chapter Banner and Relic Blades, Sternguard with LClaws and Stormshield/Twin LClaws.
> 
> Backed by a squad of Sternguard, even at Long Range, they can fire AP4 shots at 30" range. Losing 2-3 bikers a turn from that squad is nasty enough for the Orks,when combined by a Charge of those three units.



Remember, Vaz, the AP really doesn't matter with these guys. Each Warbike has both a 4+ Armour Save as well as a 4+ cover save from its smoke cloud. You shoot a warbike with a plasgun, lascannon, krak missile, it;s still got a 50/50 chance of bouncing right off.

Heavy flamers or redeemers are ideal, except for the pitiful range. If you;re hitting somone with a flame weapon you better be about to charge, otherwise you're boned.

The only sure-fire way to take them down reliably is if you can get a powerful CC unit in close and beat them to the charge. Orks live or die based on who got the charge.

Their cover save is useless in CC, but their armour save is still really good, so you'll want something like banshees or LC termies.

The problem is, Bikes are about twice as fast as either of these, which makes outmaneuvering them and stealing the charge a challenge.


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## emperor

Nobs on bikes with FnP are phenomanelly resillient to shooting. Even 3 full squads of dire avengers bladestorming will barely cause a handful of wounds after the cover, armour, and then FnP saves are made. Unless your using high strength-low ap weapons there is simply no point shooting at them, just pick another target. 

I mainly play chaos so chosen or termies loaded with plasma is good shooting wise. Beserkers, termies, and dp's are good choices to take them out in hth.


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## Galahad

emperor said:


> Nobs on bikes with FnP are phenomanelly resillient to shooting. Even 3 full squads of dire avengers bladestorming will barely cause a handful of wounds after the cover, armour, and then FnP saves are made. Unless your using high strength-low ap weapons there is simply no point shooting at them, just pick another target.


Remember, they only get cover OR armour save, but not both.


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## Vaz

Never heard about the Smoke Cloud. Have to find more about them, I guess. I assumed the Cover was people talking about TurboBoosting.

Still, that is where LC Terminators in a Redeemer come in handy. Burn them like a Marshmellow, then put them on stick.


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## MaidenManiac

Vs Nob Bikerz plasmaguns makes a _huge_ diffrence imo Galahad. Nob bikers _will_ have a painboy giving out FnP. Plasmas are AP2 hence denying them that save leaving them with simply a 4+ coversave. All AP1,2 weapons are ace for shooting FnP bikers since they double the ammount of wounds inflicted after saves(no FnP). Instant death is even better vs them, it both removes the FnP and will also force the Ork to remove a whole model each time his save fails, which will be the case 50% of all wounds :biggrin:

This ofc sums down to Battlecannons, Demolisher Cannons and other cheeseplate tossing weapons which probably are the best sollution to the problem. They stop FnP due to instant death, makes multiple hits, and since bike squads are taking up huge space its almost impossible to miss :victory:


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## Tgoodman

I play Chaos Daemons. I have not faced an Ork player in a while so I have not used this tactic on ork bikers but I think it would be most effective...jump a unit of 3+ flamers in there path and flame the crap out of them. Ensure your flamers DS away from the bikers but reasonably close so they can at least get a shot off. With the flame templates you cover as many as possible with each flamer before rolling to wound. On a 4+ they take a wound...this ignores armor, cover save and the Feel no Pain. You are sure to wipe out quite a few orks. Yes most likely the flamers will get charged, but that is why they are a suicide team and you have a good H2H squad waiting by to mop them up while your flamers tie them up so you can get in the charge.

I have never tried this, but I think it would work well.


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## LaughinBrodie

I frequently play an all Nobz on bikes army so I know the frustration I put other players through. I play them pretty beefed up, so the units I found myself consistently irked by my be a little too costly for dealing with just regular biker boyz; but here it is.

Necrons. Going against 'crons I found that that mass amounts of warriors and as many monoliths as possible are great. Your units can lock 'em in combat , one monolith sucks them through a portal outta combat, while another zaps it with a whip. Not to mention if you keep all of your warriors within close proximity to each other and the Monoliths, the amassed fire on a unit of Nobz (even with FNP and Cybork amenities) will definitely lower the numbers. That requires a bit of tactical menuvering however, so if that's not your strong suit I also have big trouble with heavy destroyers (they're Nobz on Bikes but built for long range insead), and of course the Night Bringer can be a real pain.

Space Marines. Bring the fight to the orks, get a veteren squad on bikes with power swords. If you play Space Wolves, get a few Frost blades in there just to be sure you get the job done.

Tau. I hated having to deal with broadsides, but only when there were Kroot supporting them. By themselves they are an easy target for any fast attack. With the Kroot near by, even if I were to take out the broadside(s) the Kroot would be handy for a charge. I would decimate them most of the time, but they would weaken me (or distract me) enough for a dangerous volley from the warriors, or even a well placed marker light.

Imperial Guard. The only time I ever had trouble with the IG using my biker army, was when there were no tanks used. It was only a 1750 pt game, but it looked like an apocalypse set-up from the amount of IG on the table. I even had to check my opponents math to see if it was all legit. In any case the ridiculous amount of fire he was able to place on my army almost ended the fight before CC. 

So there you go. Those are the units from the armies I had the most trouble going up against with my Biker Nobz. Hope it was helpful.


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## Cato Sicarius

Incinerators on Grey Knight Termies should do it. No Cover, no Invulnerable, no Armour, and if any survive, then what can best Grey Knight Termies on the charge? Maybe some Special Character Greater Daemon, but certainly not Ork Bikers.

@Maiden Maniac: You seem to be focusing on Nob Bikers, but remember, we're discussing Warbikers here, who cannot get FnP. Although it does have some relevance.


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## Trevor Drake

Against Warbikers, I would suggest sternguard. The name eludes me at this time, but they do have a special ammunition that denies cover, and i believe is also able to pierce an AS of 4, but i may be mistaken on that last part. Either way, sternguad armies with Pedro or a sternguard unit with Lysander is simply crazyness. With my warbikers, I have trouble against that exact set up.


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## Syko515

well, considering my generic chaos list i always use? i lash them and then warptime/winds of chaos, the squad. when thats done i spam them with heavy bolter fire from both land raiders, add more spam from my 3 thousand sons squads, and finally charge whatever is left with my 2 daemon princes. i understand this is a very generalized statment, but if repeated enough times the orks drop fast. honestly ork bikes are nasty, but their quite fun to play around with. i love seeing ork biker lists when i take multiple squads of chaos bikers, this gives the game a fun feel.


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## Dafistofmork

Hur dis is Zog da Cunnin ere, and iv got some tactiks for ya. it aint da bikers you should be scared of, its da boss in the trukk right behind dem. hur hur hur
Zog, give me the key board now.
but im talkin to da umies
Zog, dont make me get chompa out.
no, not chompa. anythik but dat. ere you go.
thank you. right sorry about that. what Zog was trying to say was that whats scarier- a unit of 6 bikers 6" away, or a warboss and his nobs in a trukk 18" away (this is at the start of turn 2, by the way). it is which ever one you do not shoot!:laugh:
then, on turn 3-4, the boys get stuck in. :spiteful::laugh:

Oh, chompa's a squig by the way.:laugh:


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## Fangio

Trevor Drake said:


> Against Warbikers, I would suggest sternguard. The name eludes me at this time, but they do have a special ammunition that denies cover, and i believe is also able to pierce an AS of 4, but i may be mistaken on that last part. Either way, sternguad armies with Pedro or a sternguard unit with Lysander is simply crazyness. With my warbikers, I have trouble against that exact set up.


They are Dragonfire bolts but, while they do ignore cover, they only have AP5 which simply means you have replaced one 4+ with another. (Unless they turbo in which case you have at least reduced their save by one). Being Str4 though means you'll be needing 5s and then they get a 50/50 chance to save anyway. Sternguard in my experience are fielded in too small amounts to be truly effective in this situation.


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## LordWaffles

Warbikers? Why would we care about warbikers? The nobbish ones are the troubling ones.

And so far I haven't really found many effective counters. A ten man squad of TH/SS termies from any imperial army do well, as do an equal number of powerfist Tzeentch chaos terminators.

LC don't do anything to them. A full squad of charging khornate terminators will do:
50 attacks
25 hits
5 wounds(initial)
4 wounds(reroll)
-3 saves(5+ invul)
6 wounds, merrily distributed around nobs like candy.

BT terminators, all with TH/SS
30 attacks
15 hits(initial)
7 hits(reroll)
18 wounds
-6 saves
12 dead nobz.

Meanwhile the noob biker will probably kill half the squad, but it's worth it as now they only have one more of the stupid broken things, cruising around one million miles a minute to kill you from lightyears away with FANTASTIC guns.

Now the nobs counter with a million billion powerklaws. Terminators lose combat, flee, get overrun, gg.

The only way to beat them is by s8+ pieplate spam, lash oblit spam, or just hitting them with more s8 weapons then they have.


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## Wounded

Does the Warboss on a bike with a squad of nob bikers have that speed freak special rule?


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## Trath9

I know that my reply may not carry all that much weight on this forum, but when I was going up against a 1250 point biker heavy list, all I had to do was shoot them with blasts and template weapons that denied cover saves and hit them all pretty hard. They didn't take all that much to kill, and only got one unit of fire warriors down.


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## fowlplaychiken

Trath9 said:


> I know that my reply may not carry all that much weight on this forum, but when I was going up against a 1250 point biker heavy list, all I had to do was shoot them with blasts and template weapons that denied cover saves and hit them all pretty hard. They didn't take all that much to kill, and only got one unit of fire warriors down.


Afaik there arent many units that negate cover saves....units still get cover vs anything cept flame throwers.


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## capnwoodrow

Assaulting them with power weapons and plasma weapons. Those things make my bikers go


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## Skcuzzlebumm

Not so much a tactic but something worth keeping in mind is that bikes cannot go up levels in ruined buildings (specifically says they can't in the rule book - can't remember the page - look for moving in ruins).

So if you do have a multi leveled building/ruin just stand on any floor above the ground and you cannot be assaulted.


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## bl0203

Page 83 Moving within ruins; "Only Infantry, Jet Bikes, Jump Infantry, MC's and Walkers can move on the upper levels _*Ruins*_. Other units may only move on the ground level of a _*ruin*_."


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## Hellskullz

simple, I'd bust out my local GWs demo version of the Orks new Stompa and just smile at them! lol

Na, but really...
I guess for Marines I'd throw a combat squad/scouts to make them waste their charge (or another unit that's crippled). Then I'd charge them with CC termies w/ TH and SS. For Orks I'd probably make sure I got the charge with my own nob biker unit. With Eldar I'd either send in Avatar (Str 10 makes for instant death) or use Pathfinders for their rending on 5+


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## benos

i would have to say you need to overcome 2 out of three of thier defences and rely on luck for the third, they have toughness 5 (high str weapons) armour/cover save (had to get rid of both except with heavy flamers) FNP (high str or power weapons), looking at this, thunder hammer SS combo deals with the toughness and FNP as well as the armour saves(except with cybork) so is probably one of the better options (mount them in a redeemer to get them there safely) after that ordannace will reduce them to just the cover save and will hit lots of them, 
if you are trying to get them with massed fire look at the odds : 10 man dire avenger squad: with bladestorm 30 shots, 20 will hit, 7 (approx) wound, 3/4 of those are saved leaves 2 wounds caused(rounding up in all cases!) to get rid of 10 nobz bikers with massed small arms fire would need 10 squad/rounds bladestorming from dire avengers (though as stated morale will hit before then)
for normal ork bikers the heavy flamer is the way to go, it gets a lot of hits with a high enough str to wound and denies the cover saves.

Ben


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## Timesplitter

With a very shooty Nid army, I do not have too many probs with biker Nobz... They are a pain and their speed is amazing, but I have been lucky enough to blow the heck out of them with 5x Barb Stranglers (Love the Str 8 Large Blasts). Though I have seen similar Nid lists get torn a part due to poor unit placement. Nobz are beasts.. there are ways to beat them.. but I will agree they are very tough for most armies. I have heard rumours that BT can rip them up, but don't really know why. (Haven't looked up the reasons yet).


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## LordWaffles

Timesplitter said:


> With a very shooty Nid army, I do not have too many probs with biker Nobz... They are a pain and their speed is amazing, but I have been lucky enough to blow the heck out of them with 5x Barb Stranglers (Love the Str 8 Large Blasts). Though I have seen similar Nid lists get torn a part due to poor unit placement. Nobz are beasts.. there are ways to beat them.. but I will agree they are very tough for most armies. I have heard rumours that BT can rip them up, but don't really know why. (Haven't looked up the reasons yet).


Rerollable thunder hammers and weight of numbers. The only two things cheese on bikes can't stand.


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## flankman

does the pain boy make em fearless? if not just shoot enough of em out so there LD goes down to around 5 so they runz away even better if you bring them to 50%


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## Eric.West

From what I've read, I'd try out a Vulkan list. Two most spammed things I've heard are FLAME FLAME FLAME!, and of coarse the Thunder Hammer termy assault squad.

So..toss in Vulkan, and your re rolling all wounds with flamers and all hits with the thunder hammers. Hit them with a few vindicators, or heck even a thunderfire cannon ignoring cover before they get to ya, and shouldn't have a problem after a flame attack then assaulted by TH termies.

I'd also suggest ironclad dreadnoughts armed with 2 heavy flamers. Drop pod him in, flame away, tieing up the unit, giving you some time to shoot at other things for a bit.


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## BlackApostleVilhelm

i've never faced this before. i would end up shooting every gun i have at them to chew them up before they got into cc, definately have all my oblits trying to gun them down. and if a few survived i would make sure the unit they got to was something like terminators or zerkers.


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## Blue Liger

I find defilers are a good counter as in CC they excel with them as you strike against front armour but also Large Blast Temp S8 AP3 Ord, so straight to the Invul Sv if the have one or bye bye birdie...I mean Ork.


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## Crimson_Chin

3 scatter laser war walkers. Plus everything else in range, but them first. 24 str 6 shots is a lot for anyone to handle, especially in conjunction with guide/doom.


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## Orius

24 scatter lasers

16 hit

10 wound

5 saved

2.5 saved from fnp. So he took 2 wounds, you didnt even kill one biker...

I see alot of people not understanding what the nobs have for defense. Let me lay it out.

Shooting defenses:
2 wounds a piece!
5 toughness
4+ armor
4+ cover (3+ on the first turn turbo boost and they will turbo boost trust me)
4+ Fell no pain
5+ invuln (if they took cybork)

Thus the only good option are flamers...Good luck with those. I cannot see any tactic in the world that can *GAURANTEE* you can get flamers or heavy flamers on them. 

Even with heavy flamers they still get a possible 5+ invuln (if they take cybork) and a 4+ feel no pain. You will not kill them with 1,2,even 4 heavy flamers... 

Assaulting Defenses:
WS 6 (if waagh banner)
2 wounds
5 toughness
4+ armor
4+ feel no pain
5+ invuln (if they took cybork)

Lightning claw termies have 3 attacks? so here we go.

15 attacks

7 hit

3 wound (you killed one nob, congrats!)

1 saved by invlun (you wounded one nob!)

they attack you with 5 power claws, they got the charge for sure.

20 attacks at a 3+

13 hit

10 wounds

3 saved.

all dead termies!


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## LordWaffles

Orius said:


> Shooting defenses:
> 2 wounds a piece!
> 5 toughness
> 4+ armor
> 4+ cover (3+ on the first turn turbo boost and they will turbo boost trust me)
> 4+ Fell no pain
> 5+ invuln (if they took cybork)


I don't think this has been hammered into everyone here. Flamers do not cut it. You need instant death(thunder hammers, missile, melta, etc) that at least negotiate the two-wound thing and feel no pain. This is important as otherwise they will murder you.

Loyalist thunder hammering terminators have got a pretty good shot as well as sacrificial squads of regular terminators(All powerfist). Lightning claws don't work.

The best way is either to swam them with ALOT of cheap, fearless wounds(neophytes, nids) or to hit them with a TON of powerfists or s8+ ap1-2 shots. Relying on a single squads powerfist is a recipe for disaster. The nobs will outfist you and win unless you prepare accordingly.

Also beware that they have rerollable heavy bolters on each bike. ON EACH BIKE. So unless you're sporting ALOT of dakka they will also outshoot you.

It's almost like a joke...


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## Mastermime

Yes Nob Bikers are horrific to face but really expensive too. They will eat a large chunk of your force and will have to kill an equal or greater number of points to be cost affective.

Template weapons and plasma guns will kill them easy enough, and unless they have taken all PKs (which I would never do) they wont ping many 3+ saves. And why are people discrediting TH SS Termies? A 3+ inv and a 2+ armour save? They would be able to mulch a 6 man Nob Squad as Easy as they would a Grot Mob.


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## bishop5

I munch through my mates Warboss + Nob Bikers with Belial and his Terminator retinue easy enough, fair enough he never normally takes more than 3 or 4 but having 5 Lightning Claw attacks (2 +1 for two LC +1 for standard +1 for charge) and 4 on the TH&SS guys really hurts. Add in a Chaplain for extra niceness.


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## Sebi

well.... I plan to play a nice bikerstorm list.... 
Wazzdakke and Whaghboss with three bikemobds one nobz and two pikkups with boyz companied by two deffcoptas

and I agree... there is no "unbeatable" list! But it sounds like fun 

Thanks for showing me the flaws of that armylist

But one thing to keep in mind:
why should I charg into CC when my dakkaguns can blow you to pieces? 
and the counterattack you all mention and the concentration of fire on one unit leaves the others free to do what they ever want... just wanted to mention that.

Well... my bikers are set up... I will see how the leist works out


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## MyI)arkness

This whole thread got us trolled! Or should i say Orked by orky cunning.  As for my few cents - if ure chaos can use lash and then mass pie them with plasma cannons, then any marines, then assault with dp's (if possible). 

Another overal tactic could probably be blocking them with useless wehicles like rhinos, they dont get consolidate if they destroy it, wreck is still a dt that makes them take dangerous terrain tests and u get to shoot/assault them if your army was placed right. I guess its all about sacrifises, enough firepower and simply a well balanced army.


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## Mastermime

The best way to beat Warbikers Generically, as I believe is what this thread is about is with Blast Weapons.

Whirlwinds, Vindicators, Lemans, Basilisks and the like. Ignores the cover saves (With a Direct Hit), And will certainly ignore their regular armour.

If this fails, small, cheap units could easily tie them till your next round of shooting. As most Ork Armies fielding Warbikers will be taking Trukks and Battlewagons, Firing your ordanance at these vehicles would be inifective and better suited for man portable heavy weapons, leaving those poor Warbikes to face green tinged death from above. 

As for a Mob of Nob Bikers fielded as suggested here, don't worry about them.

Example:

6 Nob Warbikers + Painboy + PKs + Waagh Banner + Boss Pole + Cybork Bodies = 475pts.

Why? Why would an ork player worth his Teef take such a ridiculously overpriced unit? Yes they are bloody difficult to kill but that's it. For the same cost I can get 2 units of 6 regular Warbikes with 2 more wounds, who hit just as hard, fire more shots and can late game grab me 2 objectives.

For a unit to be tactically sound it must be able to account fo its points cost in enemy casualties, or objectives held. This unit could never recoup 500pts in one game. 

My advice to anyone going up against such a unit is this. Shoot it with something big first turn then take away their charge with a big but cheap unit. I.E. A Guard squad or similar. Chances are you'll tie the combat, taking another turn away from this unit and their goal of 500pts.

In a 1500pt game 1/3 of his army will be locked into one unit of 6 models. Tie them up with cheap throw away troops and destroy his puny ork mobs.

I hope this was of some help.


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## TheKingElessar

As someone who has played Nob Bikers a lot, I fear Demolisher cannons. Somehow, it's the worst pieplate. Demolishers, and Looted Wagons, because they look so innocuous, but take down guys so fast...the other real threat no-one mentioned, (and the only reason I'm resurrecting the thread to bring up) is a Warlock Jetbike Council with several Destructors. They're as good as Heavy Flamers, but with 2/3 A each on the charge wounding on 2+ always against the survivors. A little bit of softening up with a Fire Prism or such and the Warlocks would tear Nob Bikes a new one. Especially since 5 Klaws isn't viable for wound allocation, 3 or 4 is an operational maximum. MEQ armies should throw combat squads at them, one at a time, always letting them charge, so that you get the extra round of shooting.

Regular Bikes are no big deal. Also, combi-melta Sternguard are particularly fearsome against Nob Bikes, with a little luck.


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## Inquisitor Einar

2 squads of dominions, driving up in their rhinos, jumping out and unleashing 8 flamers with divine guidance should work nicely. Flamers so no cover save, and 6s is AP 1, ignoring both armour and FNP


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## Culler

I play Orks and love my bikers and here's what I've found:

Regular warbikers are fun to use but not really a huge deal for their points. They shoot like mad and fight well but heavy bolters and especially autocannons and heavy flamers really ruin their day. Then their Ld is kind of crap even with a bosspole. So evne though they've always got a 4+ cover and 4+ armor, and T5, at 25 points each they're proportionally about as tough as a space marine and much more vulnerable to hellhounds and heavy flamers.

Nob bikers have their largest value in their tenacity. Typically they struggle to come close to killing an amount of stuff that nears their points but my opponent throws everything and the kitchen sink at them to try to eliminate them while ~100 boyz (1850 points) move up and actually do the work. My nob bikers+warboss unit typically costs around a third of my points, so expect it to be as difficult to take out as that many ork boyz. I wouldn't even use them except I don't have enough space to effectively deploy any more boyz and keep them from being bunched up.

The best things against Nob Bikers from best to worst:
-Str 8+ large blasts. Instant death, no FNP, just cover. Str 10 is even better because it prevents the Ork player from assigning wounds that would instant death a nob to the warboss whose base toughness is 5, so it won't kill him.
-Power fists. In the hands of a str 4 or higher thing, it instant deaths nobs, allowing only a 5+ invulnerable save (which I always have with my nobs). Only downside is that you've got to be in melee with them. I will not send my nobs into melee with a big loyalist terminator squad because they have more fists than I do, they're cheaper and less mobile, and the best I can hope for is 1 for 1. Nob bikers typically only carry a few power klaws because one of my nob bikers with a power klaw is a 75-point model.
-Str 8+ shots. Ignores FNP, instant death. Can be tough to have enough of these shots to spam though. Again str 10 is better so they can't allocate wounds to the warboss to prevent instant death.
-AP 2- str 5+ shots. AP 1 or 2 ignores FNP, and str 6 or 7 from plasma wounds them pretty effectively, again, there's just the cover save to worry about.
-Heavy and hellhound flamers and other AP 4 templates. This is why I run my nobs with cybork bodies for the 5+ invulnerable save. 5+ invulnerable save and a 4+ FNP shrugs off most of these. Winds of chaos works much better though, ignoring the FNP.
-Heavy anti-infantry fire. Heavy bolters, autocannons, etc. Nobs shrug this off pretty effectively, but at least it's strong enough to wound T5 reliably. Nobs will actually take about 25% of the wounds inflicted by Str 7- AP3+ shots.
-Typical anti-personnel fire. Things with str less than 5 are going to have a hard time hurting nobs. It takes roughly 24 flashlight hits or 12 bolter hits (hits mind you, not shots), to stick a wound on a nob, and then wounds can be shared around.
-Typical CC. Again it takes around 24 str 3 or 12 str 4 hits to manage a wound on a nob, but since nobs are ws5 most will only hit them on 4s and this means being in CC with the nobs where they're happy as a clam.

Physically blocking the nobs is a good tactic too, forcing them to attack a transport or throwaway unit instead of killing what they want to is very effective. Each offensive action that the nob squad takes is at a premium due to their high cost and each time they have to sacrifice that action is a good thing for you.


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## mcmuffin

Depending on the number of warbiker mobs, i would generally try to take an ordnance heavy army, as well as some tank-bustin squads. the ordnance,e.g. 2 vindicators or basilisks orthe likes should be able to cause them instant death and negate their armour saves. the heavy weaons squads could then fire in with lascannons, plasma cannons and multi-meltas to finish them off


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## hockeydude16

not to shoot down any hope of killing nob bikers with ordinance things, but with these nobs i run at least two 10 man loota squads (as would any smart ork player) with would hamper any tank pie plates from reaching the nobs. As far as my personal experiance i have only had problems with monsterous creatures, power weapons and wraiths. I have also been boned a couple times by pinning weapons due to the lower leadership, so i guess that is an effective way to handle them.


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## Tim/Steve

Boomfexs all the way- fex with barbed strangler, scythything tals and +I if im feeling nasty.

The S8 pinning large blast is awesome- should hit 3-4 bikerz and if they fail their cover save/armour save they get instant killed (so no FNP and no wound splitting) and then if they charge the pks hit after the fex who will again instant kill them in CC.
Best of all is that at 113-117pts I can get 2-3 fexs for the price of 1 nob bikerz unit AND I have a good chabce to pin the unit if they didnt turbo boost (cause 1 to die with each of my 3 fexs thats 3 pinning tests the NObs have to pass... plus a probable 25% casuality test at the end of the phase if they pass all 3)


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## Lash Machine

If you are chaos I found that lashing the warboss(or two) away from the combat and bringing the other bikers towards you. Then assault it with whatever you have. without the warbosses being able to contribute towards the combat you should be able to win on wounds scored which will make them run, and get mowed down.

If I where any other army I would shoot everything possible at them before counter charging them with something nasty. Terminator with thunderhamers and storm shields comes to mind.


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## Sebi

how can you lash the Warboss out of the Bossbikermob?
isn't the lash a psychic power used like shooting?


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## Lash Machine

You lash him backwards, but in coherency and out of six inch pile in range, whilst pulling as many non power klaw guys towards you. I did this at the GT to a two warboss and 10 strong biker unit. When my bezerkers and two deamon princes chraged in they faced as few nobz as possible after the pile in moves and crucially no warboss touting power klaws. I won the combat on wounds and ran them down as they fled.

In a previous games I had come across two 10 strong units, each with a warboss. this did not go very well but I learnt a few tricks for the game described above. The trick really is to soften them up and charge them on your own terms whatever army you use.


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## Sebi

still I don't understand how you can push the Warboss out of the Bikers? imho that is not possible... but honestly I dunno the exact rule of the lash


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## Crane948

For all the people who said to amass all firepower in your army at them I disagree completely. While you're doing that you've got ALL the rest of the orks charging at you unscathed since you fired at the nobz on da bikes. Also the nobs will have 4+ cover FNP and 2 wounds so if they roll lucky there is a chance they can live. I would NOT point all my guns at the bikers.


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## Grimskul25

Crane948 said:


> For all the people who said to amass all firepower in your army at them I disagree completely. While you're doing that you've got ALL the rest of the orks charging at you unscathed since you fired at the nobz on da bikes. Also the nobs will have 4+ cover FNP and 2 wounds so if they roll lucky there is a chance they can live. I would NOT point all my guns at the bikers.


Crane has a pretty good point here, :good: to me if you were to take down Ork Warbikes effeciently I think its better to take one certain task force to eliminate or at least halt their advance and let the rest focus on his other forces. Preferably something that ignores the major advantages the Nobz have like their cover saves or FNP, something like TH termies in a LR or an inferno cannon, that way it takes away significant benefits and even if the unit you sent gets its ass owned, at least you (hopefully) did enough damge to it to render it managable/less useful.


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## Lash Machine

The thing with nob warbikers is that to have an effective unit with them you must take a full compliment plus a warboss or two which gobbles up half the armies points, unless they have two full units then thats the whole army. Even with one big unit of them there won't be too much pressing about the rest of the ork army.

The ork player is bound to turbo boost them right up to your face so you don't have much to lose by un loading everything on them in one go before hopefully charging them with a useful close combat unit.

But if there is a lone truk or a lightly armoured small unit of something lurking in heavy bolter range then it may be worth considering depending on the where and what for that particular unit might be up to.


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## Tim/Steve

Bikerz are a problem, when there is a choice of hitting them and hitting the rest of the orc army I would normally choose the army. The bikerz are just a single unit and as such they can't assault more the a couple of your units. 
I prefer to fend off the bikerz by not giving them any options but to charge (preferably) a single unit of mine that is expendible (when playing nids I fend them off with gaunts while I take on the rest of the army... 

Since my Nid army has about 16-17 units at 1500pts (especially when 1-2 are without number) I dont care how good the Bikerz are, they are only 1 unit and will massively overkill anything they charge.. but it'll take them a whole game to make any impact on my army... while my army is going to make an impact on the bikerz long before that.
Nids make good use of the fantasy MSU tactics... yes the downside is that in anhiliation missions you have to table your opponent but get the army right and that isnt actually that rare


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## Tony

I would suggest that you deal with the Nob biker mob the way you would deal with any dangrous and expensive unit. 

Shoot the c£$p out of it asap and hope it dies fast.

I love bikers. In my army I have 2 mobs of 8, I find that with 2 mobs they try harder, trying to out do one another :grin: enough fire power to overcome a low BS and enough St to cause damage


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## Inquisitor Einar

for SoBs, they're not That nasty to take down. Rhino with 10 dominions, 4 flamers and a brazier of holy fire works wonders.
Drive up, exit and flame over them. 5 flame templates gives you a LOT of hits. and no cover save. Add Divine Guidance and you will neutralize quite a few of their armour and FNP rolls. THis will seriously hurt such a squad. If you have an Inq with drivine pronouncement or a cullexus nearby, to reduce their leadership, then they will go and drive off.

As IG, you can do something similar. get a Psyker battle squad, reduce their leadership, then drive up with a chimera with veterans and burn em with 3 flamers and a heavy flamer.


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## TheKingElessar

Or, flame them with a Callidus' flamer template...


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## Warlock in Training

I have not faced the list but I have been thinking what evryone one is saying. Throw down a ton of AP 2/1 weapons on them and find some units with Power Weapons to lead the counter Charge. Flamers are great to. 

So with what I have to face that Nightmare. 3 Oblits (using Plasma Cannons), Vindi (Ap2 Pie of Death), and Lash Princes (throw them back to a safe distance and MC stats eat them). I think the likes of 5 Termies w/ Pair L. Claws and lead by a Lord with Deamon Weapon all with MoK would crush a mob quite handily. I mean thats like 25 attacks on the charge, with reroll to hit PWs, + the possible 17 PW attacks from the lord would be a Nightmare for a 10 Man Mob.


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## Tim/Steve

I find the best route is just to fire S8 weapons at them... doesnt matter about any other stats. They are likely to have 3+ cover so AP isnt that important (S8 flamer template would be great... but callidus doesnt count). Vindi works well, but I fond cheap boomfex are the best, every shot should take out 1-3 nobz on a hit; 2 hits later the squad isnt really a threat anymore (and if you can catch them before they turbo boost they'll probably be pinned).

Units with several powerfists also scare the hell outta the bikerz- sure they'll kill a lot of my blood claws on the charge but with a possible 6-9 powerfist attacks back (if I get counter-attack) then the orcs will lose their unit to... in the long run losing a 170pt MEQ unit to take out a possible 500pts of nobz really isnt a bad trade.


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## TwoKill

Drop pod with deathwind launchers and iron clad with double heavy flamer right next to the unit. The double heavy flamers will deal massive damage and the deathwind launcher has the potential to hit a lot. Make them roll a lot of wounds then force the unit to take care of the giant armor 13 walker.


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## TheKingElessar

A S10 Warboss, with his 5A, isn't scared of an Ironclad...neither are 4 Nobs at S8...Drop Pods can't shoot the turn they land, either...


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## LordWaffles

TwoKill said:


> Drop pod with deathwind launchers and iron clad with double heavy flamer right next to the unit. The double heavy flamers will deal massive damage and the deathwind launcher has the potential to hit a lot. Make them roll a lot of wounds then force the unit to take care of the giant armor 13 walker.


They'd still get the FNP save with the heavy flamer, also next turn since you couldn't assault, they could just run around the back of the dread and fire off 20-30 TL big shoota rounds into your AV10.

I like the idea but you won't score enough wounds to drop them, but if you do get into CC just dedicate attacks into the warboss, with no ET(thank god) he'll drop like a fly to the first failed invul save from your S10 might.


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## Someguy

I think the ironclad is worth considering, but not in a pod. It's a great counter-charge unit and is certainly competitive vs nobs bikers. Str 8 isn't great against it and it gets lots of chances to instant kill things.


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## Inquisitor Varrius

I'm always a fan of orbital striking bikers, but maybe that's just me. A Lance Strike raining down on a unit does a big template worth of S 10 and pinning. If you hit them 1st turn, a bunch die and can't move, then you hit them 2nd turn, and there's nothing left. I do that whenever anyone plays Wazdakka and his millions of bikers.


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## englhockey

i think a thunderfire could kill a few each turn 4 templates, use the ammo that ignores cover on them no cover save, 100 points for that and a tech marine is def. worth it.


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## Giga[0]

I used to have a lot of trouble when I regularly played against my mate's Nob Biker army list, 750pts. I would use Space Marines and it would be a real struggle. I think the most I ever managed to achieve was a draw, although I was still learning the majority of the new rules.

However, I did find that placing a Scout unit amongst some cover with a Missile Launcher was pretty effective for defending my objectives. Consequently, I would recommend placing small units into cover with heavy weapons where they can cause a decent amount of damage with high AP weapons with small chance of retaliation due to the difficulty in which they manouevre through terrain. On the other hand, Scouts now have a lower Ballistic Skill so it may be more worthwhile to have a couple of Combat Squads with a Missile Launcher or a Lascannon if you feel the extra points are worth it. In my opinion, they're not necessary.

Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields are also great against Nob Bikers because of they're incredible Armour Save and the bonus of having a decent Invul. Save due to the Storm Shield. A couple of Power Fists thrown in there can be extremely useful too. Try to include at least one unit of Terminators in your list if you know you're going to be facing a lot of Bikers, as they're one of the few things available, in a Space Marine army at least, that can properly withstand and repel them. Hope it helps .


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## Lopspoon

Vindicator tanks FTW,


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## Meat Shield

Callidus assasin + psyker battle squad. pyskers lower there leadership so that they are wounded on a 2+ as well as being instant killed. The flamer ignores all their saves and as i just said, instant kills them (with the lower ld).


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## Culler

TheKingElessar said:


> A S10 Warboss, with his 5A, isn't scared of an Ironclad...neither are 4 Nobs at S8...Drop Pods can't shoot the turn they land, either...


The warboss is scared spitless, I dunno what you're talking about. The dreadnought goes before any powerklaws and can instant death him. Then the typical 2 PKs I run my squad with besides the boss have to roll 4s to glance and my 2 big choppas need 6s to glance.


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## TheGrunt

My favorite thing to do to bike squads, be they ork, marine, eldar or whatever, is to make _them_ fear _me_. My gunline often can't whittle them down fast enough to stop them from charging, but if I can take advantage of my phychic choir then at best they're testing at Ld 3. Good luck rolling that one ya green skinned pansies. :taunt: Throw my valks behind them and they're toast from the crossfire.


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## zeroblackstar

If your a SM player:

The problem with nob bikers seems to be..

cover save
armour save
toughness
FNP
speed

you can get around ALL of the above in one go. thunderfire cannon using subterranean blast. Now the 4 templates worth of st4 hits might tickle one of 'em, but this next bit is where it gets interesting..

The "tremor" effect will cause EVERY biker in the unit to take a dangerous terrain test if it moves next turn. No armour save. No cover save. Bypasses toughness altogether. No feel no pain save.

Since its a heavy 4 blast weapon your almost guaranteed to hit at least one of the bikers and force the difficult terrain test for the entire unit. If they dont move, you have just bought yourself another turns worth of shooting, plus the ork player is clearly insane.

It has a range of 60". demolisher cannon is 24". your vindicator is going to get raped by the nob squad, because it WILL be number one on the to pwn list and you know it. Not only that but your going to have to move your vindicator towards the orks in order to put space between them and your normal troops before they chew them up as well. Youll get one or if your lucky two shots off at best. The thunderfire cannon can quite happily dish out attacks all game (or until its destroyed) from the point on the board furtherst away from those bikers and terrain willing, from the saftey of some ruins or something.

In fact the bikers might head straight for the cannon as soon as possible because this thing has the power to cripple large mobs of boys. Either way, its a win win because youll buy another turn or twos worth of shooting before they get into CC with your expensive units who are probably dealing with the other threats on the battlefield.

Considering the cannon is only 100pts, and your average nob biker is roughly around 75pts, id say this probably gives you best gun for the job in terms of cost and effectiveness.

Dont rely solely on the cannon to save the day, as it wont. However if you play SMs and your going to be playing orks. Take a thunderfire cannon as a heavy support choice. I promise you wont regret it. Ever. Even if it gets wiped out on turn one.

my 2 cents...


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## TheKingElessar

Sure - A Thunderfire Cannon can do all those things. But it can also be easily destroyed by a single hit. The first time it's faced you may think it's not high on the enemy's target priority, but that ignores the opportunity cost of having the Thunderfire over a far superior (and cheaper!) DakkaPred. Low as it may be on the enemy's list (first time they face it, if they aren't smart enough to know it's capabilities) - they won't take much to take it down...statistically a round of shooting from said Nob Bikers should be plenty - and they may well not have to move to get you.


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## zeroblackstar

TheKingElessar said:


> Sure - A Thunderfire Cannon can do all those things. But it can also be easily destroyed by a single hit. The first time it's faced you may think it's not high on the enemy's target priority, but that ignores the opportunity cost of having the Thunderfire over a far superior (and cheaper!) DakkaPred. Low as it may be on the enemy's list (first time they face it, if they aren't smart enough to know it's capabilities) - they won't take much to take it down...statistically a round of shooting from said Nob Bikers should be plenty - and they may well not have to move to get you.


aye this is true, but its a trade off. The dakka pred is 15pts cheaper but firing both heavy bolters and the autocannon on the bikers. Thats 8 shots, some of which will miss. The rest of which will still have to roll to wound (against toughness 5) then get past the cover save, then the FNP will kick in. Of course itll last longer when shot at but nob bikers dont do a lot of long range shooting...they klaw things to death. Pred vs. nob bikers in CC? Its a dead pred. You can position the thunderfire cannon on the opposite side of the table to the rest of your army and still be in range. Cant do that with a pred. This splits the ork force up. Divide and conquer.

If the bikers take a rokkit launcher, which only has 24" range, its first 5+ to hit. Then it will hit the cannon on a 1-4, and the techmarine on a 5-6, and then still need to avoid rolling a 1 to penetrate, thats of course if your cannon isnt in cover. Not taking a thunderfire cannon because a nob biker might get lucky with a rokkit launcher seems silly.

Thunderfire cannons are very fragile but considering you get a techmarine with full servo harness (75pts worth right there) who can also bolster the cover the cannon is in to gain a +1 to its cover save, along with probably the best crowd control weapon in the SM arsenal. Cant see how youd go wrong really.

But its not an either/or decision. Take both! :mrgreen:


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## Culler

zeroblackstar said:


> Considering the cannon is only 100pts, and your average nob biker is roughly around 75pts, id say this probably gives you best gun for the job in terms of cost and effectiveness.


The TFC is annoying for nob bikers, putting almost 2 wounds on them when they move, but they still get their invulnerable against it and 1-2 wounds each round aren't going to stop them by a long shot. Orks also have lootas that deal with TFCs well. Also, Nob bikers are 50 each base (nob + bike + cybork) with a few with PKs and special equipment that might take them to average 60 points or so each.

The best shot a SM player has at stopping Nob bikers is dreads who instant death them and the warboss leading them in assault but mostly triple vindicators are a great answer. 1 Vindicator shot will likely pay for the tank by instant death to a couple nobs and with good deployment and/or a screening unit you can get 2 volleys off before they kill a single vindicator and more before they're all silenced. And lootas don't do well against AV 13.


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## TheKingElessar

Still true - but a Predator is a lot more versatile. Better not to assume you're playing Nob Bikes, or Orks in general, and plan for most possible outcomes (despite the aim of this thread, lol) and that _usually_ means 3 Predators will be better than any combo of them and 1+ Thunderfires.

Plus, of course, the fact that a Predator can at least try to escape Nob Bikers under it's own steam, not sit and wait to be a speedbump. An amusing image, I admit - but not ideal for the SM player. Either way, of course, (hate to repeat that phrase, but...) this thread seems somewhat redundant now. Orks aren't in the least bit scary anymore - not outside of 13" from a Deff Rolla at the start of the opponent's turn, anyway. :laugh:
Fine by me, the rate I paint I might just get all my Lootas done in time for the next Codex, when Tankbustas do the job they dream of while they sleep on the display shelf - and make Lootas seem pitiful in comparison. (NOTE - not a rumour, just a fantasy.)


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## Hellskullz

Grey Knights are their bane. Almost the entire armor has power weapons and can boost their own attack with hammerhand to make up for the added toughness of the bikes. To make it even more deadly, add am IC to that squad and have him cast hammerhand too and be equipped with rad grenades. Another Strength bonus and the grenades lower the enemies toughness. You now have S6 power weapon attacks going against T2-3 (3-4) (not including warboss or if they have a way to get extra toughness). And unlike the bike toughness bonus, Rad Grenades reduction DOES count towards instant kill. The grenades work too even if they charge you. And having halberds insure you go first instead of a tie on initiative if they charge.


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## MidnightSun

Necromancy, much?

Midnight


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## OpTi

As a general tactic i use when facing horrific deathstar units is to feed them some bullshit unit i don't care about that they will butcher in thier turn leaving them open to attack during my turn. Once accomplished hit them with anything that will cause ID.

More specific tactics are:

Chaos

Lashmachine already mentioned this tactic with lashing the bikers in a very specific way to reduce the total number of bikers that can reach combat, thus massively increasing the chances to win in combat and run them down.

GK

Halberds and force weapons... yeah orks lose

Tau

Marker lights to reduce cover and rail guns

Dark Eldar

my tactic at the start work very well here, feed them some sucky unit and then dark lance the crap out of them.

SM
Tactic at top then a vindicator, sternguard with combi meltas.

I'm sure you can find something in every army that will work although daemons might struggle but i'm no expert on them.


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## TheKingElessar

Tailoring a list to deal with a specific unit (especially a not-very-scary one like Nob Bikes) is always silly/cheating.


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## Mindlessness

Has no one suggested rending?
Psycannons, hurt everything. No FNP and an instant wound. GK can have two in a 0 man squad. That whole squad is putting out 2 S5 shots each and 2/4 S7 shots with rending on the psycannons.

Bound to ruin some gits day.


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