# Playing Against Grey Knights



## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

Okay, so far everybody has been discussing the merits of the Grey Knights Codex and models. 
But what about playing against them.
Has anybody fought them yet?
What did you think of the experience?

Yesterday, I had an 1,800 points battle against them with my Eldar Ulthwe Army.
I went first and by the end of my third turn my opponent conceded the game, having one squad of Heavy Weapons left with Range 24". 
Don't know the name of that unit, but each model had bucketfuls of shots had I been fool enough to get within range.

I found my opponent's lack of manouevrability to be a distinct advantage for my Eldar,
he only had a Land Raider with a load of Terminators in it to speak of for speed and redeployment. 
He had one of the Dreadknights, too. Which did nothing.
I made a point of killing it first. Not because I was afraid of what it could do, but I find it really disheartens my opponents to destroy their brand new, shiny toy before they've had a chance to use it. And once that was gone his Terminators and their Land Raider followed in quick succession.

All in all, too few models on the table of too high points value. 
In an 1,800 point game I only faced six or seven threats against ten very credible ones on my side.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

I haven't had one yet, but I look forward to bringing in my Necrons to have a jolly old time with them. Pariahs and the Deceiver in one army will be a recipe for great fun against GKs.


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

I'm sure i'll see a couple of GK units on monday (off to warhammer world), but as i'm taking vanilla marines (range heavy) i'm not holding much hope of beating them. My friend will be using my Flesh Tearers, so he should do a little better. Be interesting to see anyway.


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## Bayonet (Aug 13, 2010)

I've played a 1600pt game against them with my Guard, it was a KP game.

I ran a mech infantry list with a couple of LRBTs for backup, even though at the end of the game all he had left was a crippled landraider and 1 Paladin he still won because of the amount of Chimeras he popped of mine, I had all my troops in 1 large Platoon to minimise the risk of loosing a KP there but the transport killing and my Company Command squad was enough to give him the victory. 

I could easily decimate what units he did have with Las Cannons and Plasma (I took alot of Plasma...) but he had barely any KPs on the table compared to my many. I still had a third of my Army on the table at the end!


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## WHEEMIKE (Jun 16, 2009)

Yep all the psycannons in the world are worthless if you can’t get in range. I’ve been scratching my head, how to build a balanced GK army.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Grey Knights win big, or they suffer horrendously. 

I've had 9 Games with Knights now - 5 With 3K of Terminators, 2 with Draigo and Paladins at 2K, and 2 with my most recent list, a shooty Power Armour list.

So far, at 3K, it was able to last the longest - Grey Knight Land Raiders are tough as nails, but they're not a crux of the army. Yeah, the provide Twin Linked Psycannons, and if need by Rapid Redeployment, but they're not the be-all, end all.

Dreadnoughts - my favourite units. When Backed by a Techmarine, these are near indestructible. 4 of these in Reinforced terrain, backed by a Techmarine with an Orbital Relay oozes out of it's tight little brown one: 2 S10 AP1 Blast Templates, 8 48" S8 TL'd shots (2 at BS5), and then either another 8 48" S8 TL'd shots or 16 24" S7 Rending shots.

They have a 3+ Cover Save, the VenDread becomes near enough immune to damage (unless you opponent is capable of consistently rolling a 5 or 6 on the damage chart) - as Fortitude makes them immune to Shaken and Stunned while the Techmarines in base contact with both provide a 75% chance of repairing any damage done.

And even IF one of their weapons are ripped off, they can still pop out 2 24" S5 shots each, until the damage is repaired.

If you also take a Grand Master with that naughty pill, the Techmarine's become Scoring as well, and can take Rad Grenades to let the Dreadnoughts instagib MEQ's/Nobz/Tyranid Warriors on a failed Armour Save.

This is a crux, however - and need to be got rid of early or else you'll see Transports crash and burn, or the units held up indefinately in combat.

As for the troops - they come in two manners - spammy combat squads with easily defined roles, or Deathstars. It's a matter of identifying which ones you're weak to in the manner of the Combat Squads (i.e Mech Armies suffer to the Shooty Combat Squads) while Paladin Deathstar units are relatively slow (and *only* pack 4 Relentless Psycannons).


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## StalkerZero (Oct 3, 2010)

I have played about 10-15 games against them since the full codex was viewable. 

Overall, their CC ability against MEQ is pretty intense. They make my Grey Hunters cry.

Dreadknights are pretty scary but that Dreadnought still scares me more.

Overall, my Space Wolves faired much worse than I thought they would. I run 5 Razrobacks with Las/TL Plasma, 15 ML LF, and 1 Rhino full of a kitted out GH squad and they made it really competitive every game (I expected my extra range to be a huge downfall of theirs). What I found was that even though my list had range it wasn't mobile enough. I know looking at a list with 6 transports sounds crazy to say not mobile enough but the real damage is from the Long Fangs and they just can't move.

My Destroyer spam Necrons do amazingly well against them though. Despite lacking any real psychic defense and how bad Necrons are in CC I don't think I have lost a game yet at 1500 Necrons versus Grey Knights.

Their basic gun being a stormbolter is just about as nice a perk as their CC weapons being force weapons it seems.

Edit: This weekend we are going to proxy up the 54 Jokearo list and the Pyskers in Chimeras of doom list for 1500 and see how I fair against them.


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## Caliban (Nov 27, 2010)

what is the killer dread?


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## StalkerZero (Oct 3, 2010)

Caliban said:


> what is the killer dread?


Dual autocannons with pysbolt ammo. He hurts a lot.


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

I have only played small games of about 1k points against them and havnt lost any of them. 

The guy who collects them in my local store has decided he wanted to be a complete nob and build a list that consisted of 8 models in 1000 points. Yea thats right 8 f***ing models. 

I wont say it wasn't tough to beat but it has no mobility at all and i soon out ran him and shot him with long range firepower.


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## Caliban (Nov 27, 2010)

StalkerZero said:


> Dual autocannons with pysbolt ammo. He hurts a lot.


ouch ouch ouch. how many points in all if i may ask?:shok:


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I used Eldar with runes of warding. The stupid GK kept melting their own heads through failed psychic tests. I seriously do not know why my opponent kept trying to cast them.

Against my stripy marines I have also had decent success. I rely on long range firepower which the GK have little of. The removal of the shrouding means they are a lot easier for my force to beat the crap out of them. My captain (nicknamed Tony) has even managed to gib Mordrak. They are not as hard as people suggest. Although I throw 5 lascannons a turn at them backed up by nearly a dozen missile launchers.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Caliban said:


> ouch ouch ouch. how many points in all if i may ask?:shok:


135 for Standard, 195 for Vendread.


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

So it's not just one army that is faring well against the Grey Knights, it seems it's across the board.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Just need to maximize ranged threats and blow the hell out of them.


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## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

by the sounds of it, the GK are not an easy army to play. they seem kinda like a CC force. Tellyporter?? or a rhino or something that would allow them to get in close maybe. or go with the Gen.ahab approach get as many heavy weapons as you can and let the devil glue the enemy pieces back together in hell.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I've had little problem against them with my BA (Libby, 2x 10 ASM, Honour Guard, Storm Raven, Baal, Crusader with 5x Hammernators, Furioso Dread).

Vs Paladin Death Star I threw 20 Assault Marines, 5 Honour Guard, 5 Hammernators and a Librarian at it in one turn, using my JPs and the Crusader to get the charge. 12 Power Weapons, 24 Power Fists/Hammers and 50 normal attacks all with FC took it down to Draigo on one wound and a Warding Stave - in return I lost almost an entire Assault Squad and all the Honour Guard barring the Fist. It's just a matter of throwing enough AP2 wounds at them - because torrent does jack shit against them (6 Rapid Firing Hurricane bolters knocked off, what, 2 wounds?).

Vs a very "Standard" GK army (Paladins, DK, SS, Interceptors, Rhinos, Dreadnought) I was able to disrupt/damage a fair amount of it from range because he could only threaten 24" - and was able to use my Fast Transports to pick targets on my terms (Top tip: Take Furioso Dreads because they make GKs cry like little girls). I think I lost like 5 guys?

Until people actually get the money/time to build some of the more competitive builds then GKs don't look all that powerful to me, despite all the silliness in their book. Wait a few months and see how it looks then, I guess.


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

Just get an asston of AP 3/2 weapons (Dark Reapers and Guardians with bright lances are great) and you're good. I'm personally gonna start writing my Falcon-Heavy list (2 Falcons, one with a scatter laser and one with a starcannon on top of the pulse laser as well as a Fire Prism) for when all the GK players start showing up.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

You dont really even need that much AP2/3. You just need speed. Mechdar, shooty DE, land speeders and other fast vehicle based armies have a huge advantage against GK. They are really only dangerous at 24". Also they are only average in CC despite all the force weapons, because they only have WS4 and 1A each (generally). So unless your fighting purifiers or palis you can take down a SS/Interceptor squad fairly easily. 

The trick I believe to beating GKs is to stay either more than 24" away (vs palis,puris) or be in close combat (vs SS/Inters) assuming you have a decent close combat unit. 

They really are not as good as the hype made them out to be. Because the model count is so low and the range of effectiveness for the GKs is so limited they can be out maneuvered pretty easily. 

I can't speak for henchmen lists but the above holds true for pure GK lists


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

I've got to agree with Iron Freak 220.

In my 1,800 points Eldar I took two distinct factions.
2 x 10 Guardians. One with a Brightlance, the other with a Scatter Laser. These were backed up with two squadrons of 2 War Walkers. One squadron with two Brightlances, the other with two Scatter Lasers.
These gave me a solid long ranged firebase.
But my main thrust was a Wave Serpent with Farseer and 8 Warlocks, a Wave Serpent with Farseer, 7 Banshees and Exarch and a Falcon with 5 Fire Dragons and Exarch.
These were Star Engined across the board and rolled up the Grey Knights' flank.
I didn't meet much resistance to be honest, one Wave Serpent and the Farseer/Banshees squad were my
only casualties. And the Banshees only succumbed in the main due to my opponent taking and passing a Psychic Test for some weapon or other, without announcing he was taking it. Which was a bit naughty bearing in mind I had Runes Of Warding which could quite possibly have stopped him in his tracks.

They didn't impress me and their lack of numbers certainly left a lot of space on the board for me to isolate and exploit to maximum advantage whilst still sniping away with some hard hitting ranged units.


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## jesse (Sep 29, 2008)

ive only played one game against the new grey knights. It was two Gk players. I played on a team with my friends dad who was running space wolves. i played deamons, and they quit turn 3. GK long range helped our cause out alot, coupled with the fact that the soul grinder likes to eat units that have been combat squaded .


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

Pssyche said:


> Okay, so far everybody has been discussing the merits of the Grey Knights Codex and models.
> But what about playing against them.
> Has anybody fought them yet?
> What did you think of the experience?


I played a 1500 pt game yesterday

he had a dreadknight with the jump ability, modrak(or whatever) and his ghost knights, 4 GKPA squads - 1 had a psycannon, 1 had a infernus-flamer-thingy, the rest all had a justicar & halberds. a storm raven with a typhoon missile launcher, a dreadnought with an autocannon (without psybolts) in the raven.

i played CSM with 3 objectives and spearhead deployment - i was given 1st turn.

he DS his entire army - which i suck at dealing with.

eventually he beat down my army but i didnt find that the GK dex was something amazing or anything, i did not know that i was to be playing GKs or else i would have brought my NM list.

-----------------
Hammerhand & halbred combos suck to deal with, especially if your a power armored army.

Mordrak-dude is an asshole to deal with, he's a major priority to kill off due to him making the rest of the army easier to DS when available. that and he respawns ghost knights - :angry:.

i feel that wyches and I6 eldar(both) CC unit heavy lists can easily take out the GKs just dont stay locked in combat for 2+ player turns.

the dreadknight is just a big ass terminator, so treat him as such - either massed firepower to get some 1s for armor fails, or shoot AP1/2 stuffs and make him take invul saves.

against the list i played against i believe that; mobile, shooty, and swarm lists are all issues that GKs have trouble with.

in short, to make the GKs lose is to remove their power armored units, without them you will have very little to worry about - since then you just start to avoid units you dont need to deal with and focus on the rest.

Edit: walkers are a major theat to PA/termie armor GKs.


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## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

the thing you have to remeber about Gray Knights is that they are jsut normal Space marines for the most part with a ton of better gear. If you don't get in combat or you have a very mobile army they wills truggle to do a thing to you. A inquisitoral army however if far more deadly as it can do any job needed and the amount of transports avialbe can become very useful.

You hit Gray kngiths with Ap3, Ap2, Ap1 weapons they die easily at range, only once in combat are they hard nuts but they are slow due to poor armour and few fast attack choices...also they are expensive and psychic defence scews they up royaly.


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## Supersonic Banana (Jul 23, 2010)

i played several games against them today.

They are not what they were hyped up to be but then again i was playing as orks so force weapons dont scare me that much. I had 2 warbosses and 20 boys including a nob with a power claw run through Draigo and 5 of his paladins AND a dreadknight before they go shot up. So basically 400pts of orks ran through about 600-700 points of greyknights in 3 turns.

However my friend who has necrons got really pissed off when he found out that the thunderhammers are force weapons too and lost his deceiver on turn 1 (the scenario we were doing meant he could be in assault turn 1).


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

Had a 2 v 2 battle today. 
1,750 points each player.
My Eldar & a Dark Eldar player versus Grey Knights and Dark Angels.

They gave up during turn 4.

From my limited experience of playing against them I think the key is to take the fight to them straight away. Star Engine your units into their Deployment Zone. That way. They are forced to commit their important units into their quarter of the table.They're nothing special in close combat. So even if they win, it'll be turn 4 before they can break out, and due to the high cost of their upgrades, they probably won't have enough transport to ferry them across the board to your deployment zone.

Today, having done exactly that, two tooled up Grey Knight C/C Terminator Squads which included two characters who's names escape me, plus Belial and three five man squads of Dark Angels Terminators assaulted 2 Farseers,
5 Warlocks, 14 Banshees, 2 Exarchs, 5 Dragons & their Exarch. 
It took two game turns at the end of which I'd lost 5 Warlocks and 2 Dragons, they'd lost 23 Terminators and the game. 
My teammates held up his end too, putting a stop to the Dreadknight's flank attack and shoring up our firebase from further incursions.

I'd play against them any day of the week.


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