# Picking an Army-Help



## zacktheRipper (Jan 23, 2012)

I've always had an interest with Fantasy, though at heart i'm a 40k kind of guy. Yet, lately i've had more and more interest in playing Fantasy [friends do it too], and I've run down my options to either two armies: Beastmen or Warriors of Chaos. Now, I don't know anything about the actual RULES of the two armies, but being a Chaos-fan [my 40k armies are CSM and Traitor Guard XD] I was drawn to these two. I actually already have a box of Chaos Warriors, but I can also aquire a box of Gor for really cheap. So, what this runs down to, is can somebody help me out with the two pluses and negatives?  thanks


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## KarnalBloodfist (Jan 30, 2010)

I'll try to do a quick and dirty run down for you:

Warriors of Chaos
Pros:
1 - AWESOME close combat army! As a Core choice, warriors are one of the best unit choices out there. The ability to manipulate a single unit in so many ways (kit, marks, command, magic banner) really makes them a no-brainer choice. Also, marauders are so dirt cheap that it'd be an affront to the dark gods NOT to use them!!!

2 - Some pretty good magic. Level 4 magic users w/ the mark of Tzeentch are powerful casters. They get +1 to cast and have a pretty powerful lore. The other lores available to the lvl 4 as an unmarked caster are quite nice as well. Tack in some of the nasty toys that WoC get and you have a magic phase to be feared.

3 - Solid support units. The Special slot is filled w/ great units! Chosen are amazing (even when you're not using a unit maxed for potential!), knights dish out a world of hurt (they have magic weapons that confer +1S by default), chaos chariots are tanks, and trolls can get special rolls if they regenerate enough. Even the other Core troops (hounds and marauder horse) make great support troops.

4 - One word - Hellcannon! This is both a monster and an artillery piece. You have to make Ld checks ever turn but, get the thing into combat and it will hold up elite units and eat core for breakfast. Auto panic at -1 Ld when it's ranged attack (stone thrower effect) hits is great to. There are some nice combos out there to make opponents w/ Ld10 have to roll on something like Ld6 or there abouts.

Cons:
1 - Chaos lords may be cool but an exalted can pretty much do the job just as well as a lord. You'll be hard pressed to find a lot of lord choices that have better stats than an exalted champion.

2 - Taking the above into mind, if you use an exalted champion or a sorcerer lord as your general, you're only at Ld8 for your army. This is just slightly above average really.

3 - The hellcannon and thrown weapons from marauder horsemen are the only missile support you'll have outside of magic. While the hellcannon can be devastating, it can also be a real pain if it does nothing useful or if it should happen to eat YOUR guys.

4 - Aside from the hellcannon and warshrine the rest of the Rare choices are a bit ... *meh*. Hopefully some of that will change w/ the new book (due out at the end of this year!! k

Beastmen
Pros:
1 - Not really a true "swarm" army like Skaven or all gobbo armies, Beasts can still pump out some numbers. 2 or 3 30+ model Core blocks and 1 or 2 30+ model Special blocks makes for an intimidating sight!

2 - People WILL underestimate this army! I've gone up against some people who think, "Oh, GOOD! Beastment! This will be easy!" only to get rolled by a good player. 

3 - Great support units. Just like WoC, Beasts get some great support in the way of ungor raiders, 2 flavors of chariots, harpies that have the option to scout, and big mutated pigs!

4 - Lore of Beasts. The only BRB lore that benefits a specific army! Basically,it's easier to cast spells from the lore on any unit from the Beastman army.

Cons:
1 - There is next to no armor in the army. Sure, you can get some characters to a 1+ armor save but most of the time you're looking at 6+ ... if you even bother w/ the shields (I ALWAYS take additional hand weapons on gors!)

2 - The Rare choices are overpriced for what they do. They are fluffy and sound cool and all ... but ... more *meh* than WoC. Some of the specials like minotaurs and centigors are pretty *meh* too.

3 - Again, no shooting. Raiders have short bows and the cygor acts like a stone thrower. The jabberslythe has a banshee type attack but it isn't very effective.

4 - Low Ld. Again, same as WoC. 

Hopefully this helped a bit. I'm sure other people that play more and more competitively than I do will have some better info. Good luck!


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## All_Is_Dust (Aug 21, 2011)

I just started collecting my Warhammer Fantasy armies as well so I was in the same boat trying to pick an army. Now I don't have the books on either of those armies but I sure have read a lot about each while doing my research.

Warriors of Chaos is supposedly one of the best rule books to date. Great cost efficiency on HQ's, tough killy units and elites. Al around awesome army. They have some pretty recent models mixed with some older ones but for the most part all the models look gorgeous. 

I've read some negative things about Beastmen at this time. Mostly that they are very expensive troop choices and not point effective. Most people agree that WHFB is pretty well balanced but that this army is a bit weak. I especially love the Beastmen Minotaurs, they look smashing. Thing is, they could release a new codex that brings them up to date at anytime. We never know so take a good look at the armys, read the fluff and decide what appeals to you more 

It usually comes down to whats going to make you happier to paint? Unlike WH40K your going to need a lot more models in fantasy so you better like the models you buy 

Fact: A painted army plays better (and is more fun) than a grey army.


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## zacktheRipper (Jan 23, 2012)

Lol I'm most likely going to paint whatever things I do Nurgle-ish. I've already done Tzeentch-esque things with my CSM so. 

Thanks for the great run down Karnal. I do like the idea of a horde army, considering the armies I have are not as thick with the units. Also, though, the only experience I have with horde armies is when I was very young and into Orks. This is why I'm in a bit of a dilemma with the choices...one thing I DO like though, is that Gors/Ungors are only 30 dollars a pack.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

I'll add a point to Karnels

Skaven
Pros
I doubt anyone will ever out number a proper skaven army

Insane warmachines

The hellpit Abombination

Fun as hell

IF everything goes right you win
Cons
A pain to paint all those models

Expensive to buy all those models, even with the starter set

Nothing will ever go all right, something will break

You NEED a bsb or your whole army is gonna run of the table

Tomb kings
Pros
amazing looking army

raising is fun

amazing lore

Cons

Hard to use

Everything is horrible unless supported

Slightly bellow all 8th edition codexs and hugely underpowered vs some 7th edition ones

Vampire counts

Look awesome

Okish lore

ability to create new units

Ability to never ever die with good magic
cons
new so no great tactical knowledge on them

dependent on magic

infantry sucks and unlike tomb kings no way to counter it.


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## zacktheRipper (Jan 23, 2012)

Thanks for you additions, but I'm not really looking for any other Army. I have considered Vampire Counts but its really only between Beastmen and WoC ^_^


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Beastmen if you want to be Unique! Chaos if you want to kill stuff..........


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

The draw back of Warriors of Chaos is the expensive cost of the characters and the relative lack of shooting. The army is vulnerable to getting shot up and hit with magic. Rumor is that the new army book is out late in 2012 (likely to take away Mark of Tzeentch ward save and fix the double war shrine/favour of the gods gimmicky build, but fix some points and add flexibility to the army). 

Don't under-estimate the value of a horde of 50 to 60 chaos marauders with GWs. A to player who I travel with just switched to WoC after playing dwarves and is running two units of 60 (at 2500 points) and went 4-1 at the last two tournaments (1st overall due to paint scores and 3rd overall due to boost from paint scores). The chaos lord on disc of tzeentch can get to a 1+ armour save and 3+ ward save and the character can get a look out sir from chaos knights. 

Chaos knights are under-rated as they provided barded steeds for key units. 

Warriors are the best troops.

I like war shrines for their ability to both guard flanks, give support and buff troops with rolls on the gifts of chaos chart. 

Also, chaos ogres with chaos armour, MoK, and great weapons compare well with and will beat ironguts. Trolls are also a good support unit as long as run close to the leadership unit or run in a Throgg based army. Also, dragon ogres are a fun and fast unit to play (a bit expensive for what they can do in 8th edition). 

Tzeentch casters are under-rated and an exalted hero with the book of secrets and mark of tzeentch becomes a combo caster and fighting character. A lvl 2 wizard with MoTz and third eye and infernal puppet become a formidable mage because of the ability to steal the opposing magic and the ability to punish miscasts of the opposing mages while reducing the risks of your miscasts. 

Beastmen is a fun and interesting army, but is clearly below average where Warriors are currently above average in competitiveness. The game is still pretty balanced, so beastmen played well can win (a beastman army won a small, but elite tourney I was at this summer). There are just too many limitations, however, and the lack of a save on troops is a problem. Razorgors are one of the best units as both interference/diversion units and able to charge and kill light units (fast cav and skirmishers); take max units of these. Also, chariots are under-rated. Minotars can be devastating if they get rolling and wining combat but are too expensive points wise for what they do. 
One strategy is the herdstone, shaman spam. The herdstone gives +1 power dice per shaman within 6". Since it can be an impassible terrain object and block line of sight, you can anchor a unit on either side and hide the casters behind it to avoid getting them charged and killed. Beast and death lores are really good for this army. The Herdstone bunker has limitations in that it forces you to sit back and let and army come to you. Armies with good ranged shooting and magic with range will pick off the army if you do not have stuff to go out and kill things. This army struggles with modest leadership levels, the randomness of beastmen ambush (can't control where they come on reliably), lack of good shooting, and a so-so army book lore. The primal fury mechanic can be excellent with the ability to generate hatred every turn.


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## zacktheRipper (Jan 23, 2012)

Hm. I'm actually liking Beastmen more and more. Though I've heard they can be quite weak. I'm a huge fan of their miniatures [especially the Ghorgon <3_<3] and I like their fluff. While of WoC interest me, I just built a box of Warriors I've had for some time and they have zero flexibility in poses or sprue diversity, which really bothers me. Its like..back, front, weapon+weapon/shield and head.. 

Anyways thanks to all of you for your input. I may just go out and get myself a box of Gors sometime soon. ^_^


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## All_Is_Dust (Aug 21, 2011)

zacktheRipper said:


> Hm. I'm actually liking Beastmen more and more. Though I've heard they can be quite weak. I'm a huge fan of their miniatures [especially the Ghorgon <3_<3] and I like their fluff. While of WoC interest me, I just built a box of Warriors I've had for some time and they have zero flexibility in poses or sprue diversity, which really bothers me. Its like..back, front, weapon+weapon/shield and head..
> 
> Anyways thanks to all of you for your input. I may just go out and get myself a box of Gors sometime soon. ^_^


AWESOME! Make sure to post your units as you paint them, always love watching new armies form


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## KarnalBloodfist (Jan 30, 2010)

zacktheRipper said:


> While of WoC interest me, I just built a box of Warriors I've had for some time and they have zero flexibility in poses or sprue diversity, which really bothers me. Its like..back, front, weapon+weapon/shield and head..


I think the warriors are some of the sweetest looking models in Warhammer, but, I completely agree w/ you on the flexibility. They have to be the most static models GW has made out of all the newest kits.


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## zacktheRipper (Jan 23, 2012)

That is precisely why I am most likely going to do Beastmen. WoC look incredible when they are painted up and ready to go, but I like some options for posing. 

Well, I decided to go for Beastmen. Thanks for the help everyone. You can expect a box of Ungor Raiders [<3 they look SOOOO GOOD!] done up in a month or two..lol I have many CSMs to paint but you will be seeing them!


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