# Rick Priestly has left GW



## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

Rick Priestly has either been fired from or quit Games Workshop.


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## Professor Pumpkin (Jun 25, 2010)

Only one thing can truly show the shock and horror in our minds....


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

:shok:

Thats kind of unexpected to say the least...


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Well.... that's a cockpunch. That seriously saddens me - he hadn't done much recently, but he was always involved in so many of the games/editions that I loved most. 

Has it been officially confirmed?


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Well, Warseer says it's been officially confirmed...

...but then Warseer saying something's been 'officially confirmed' is a bit like David Icke saying 'the dolphins told me'. The thing with situations like this, however, is that nobody on the outside will ever know the real truths behind it; so we can (and almost certainly will) speculate all we want, but that's all it'll be - speculation.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

lol @ David Icke.

Bound to go sooner or later, early retirement?


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

According to people from various gaming magazines and websites who've spoken to him... Henry from battlegames.co.uk and Mick of curteysminiatures.co.uk , apparently he's "left to persue other projects that he's had on the back burner for a while."

Personally I'm thinking he's been made redundant to save GW money what with all the cuts the governments forced on us. He was meant to be the face of Warhammer Forge afterall...


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## admin (Oct 9, 2007)

Am I the only one who couldn't give two fucks?


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## nightfish (Feb 16, 2009)

admin said:


> Am I the only one who couldn't give two fucks?


If you havent got anything good to say, dont say it - ever heard that phrase?

Back OT

I heard he wasn't happy with the way things were going with the game the other week. If his other projects are as good as what he made of the warhammer world then it will be worth checking out I think.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

admin said:


> Am I the only one who couldn't give two fucks?


nope, as long as jes goodwin is still employed thats all that matters.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

nightfish said:


> If you havent got anything good to say, dont say it - ever heard that phrase?
> 
> Back OT
> 
> I heard he wasn't happy with the way things were going with the game the other week. If his other projects are as good as what he made of the warhammer world then it will be worth checking out I think.


When the owner of the site says he doesn't give a fuck ... I kinda think that he can say that and not worry about it :wink:


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

OIIIIIIO said:


> When the owner of the site says he doesn't give a fuck ... I kinda think that he can say that and not worry about it :wink:


I disagree. No point in having a system if somone is going to be above it.



I agree with Svartmetal, we wont ever know, but he had his hand in a lot of good stuff, I would rather see Matt Ward go, but such is fate..


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## admin (Oct 9, 2007)

nightfish said:


> If you havent got anything good to say, dont say it - ever heard that phrase?


Yup, heard it plenty of times. Only trouble is it's totally worthless in the context of discussion forums. By your logic every thread should be a circle jerk with total agreement and positive comments.

That'd be a great forum to read :laugh:



> I heard he wasn't happy with the way things were going with the game the other week. If his other projects are as good as what he made of the warhammer world then it will be worth checking out I think.


GW has been in decline for years, every new edition of 40k or fantasy gets worse and worse so it's no surprise the old guard with the best ideas are jumping or being pushed off the sinking ship. 

Good move mate, whether forced or not.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

OIIIIIIO said:


> When the owner of the site says he doesn't give a fuck ... I kinda think that he can say that and not worry about it :wink:


he could ban himself  lol


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## Abomination (Jul 6, 2008)

It doesn't matter as long as Phill Kelly is there. He is far superior to all the others anyway. It's a shame he doesn't write all the codex's and army books as that would make the game 1000 times more awesome.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

GrizBe said:


> Personally I'm thinking he's been made redundant to save GW money what with all the cuts the governments forced on us. .


how on earth do you come to this conclusion?,
it's like saying the reason the underground is shut is because sainsburys are low on milk


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## Gog (May 27, 2009)

Bindi Baji said:


> how on earth do you come to this conclusion?,
> it's like saying the reason the underground is shut is because sainsburys are low on milk


But underground trains run on milk, Its how they see in the dark.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Gog said:


> But underground trains run on milk, Its how they see in the dark.


you learn something new every day, two things today


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

admin said:


> GW has been in decline for years, every new edition of 40k or fantasy gets worse and worse so it's no surprise the old guard with the best ideas are jumping or being pushed off the sinking ship.
> 
> Good move mate, whether forced or not.


See I think 40k and fantasy have been getting better every edition, but to each his own I guess.

What did the guy do for GW? I want to see what everyone is all upset about losing.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

He's pretty much the creator of 40k.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> He's pretty much the creator of 40k.


That explains why hes pissed.


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## Kobrakai (Jul 25, 2008)

Sad to see Rick leave, as he was definitely one of the old firm that got the hobby going many years ago.

Good luck to him though, sure he's got something good to fall back on


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## the.alleycat.uk (Jun 11, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> nope, as long as jes goodwin is still employed thats all that matters.


This man speaks truth ;p I'd add Juan and Brian to that list though.

Seriously though. Rick and Alan have been overseeing the IP and have been involved in the high level creative decisions made by the company. As part of the original buyout, Rick is likely to still be a significant stockholder so a 'sacking' is unlikely.

More likely is a semi-retirement which also alows him to tinker with other projects not under the auspices of GW.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> He's pretty much the creator of 40k.


This is the reason I think its sad that he left. Rick is the RT creator, aka the one that made 40k as a game.

Gav and Alessio leaving is something I couldnt care fuck all about. Ive been mildly impressed by Gavs work and when those 2 finally gave out the CSM & CD codices they had it coming.

This is different though, just like when Andy Chambers left. Another of the old souls have left and thats sad. I hope he had some other plan rather then GW trimming their organisation.


There has been speculated that he is going to join the Perry twins on Warhammer Historical, guess time will tell. 
Its kind of strange though that the new Warhammer Forge had him as their face-character and then him leaving shortly after...


Best of luck in the future Rick :thank_you:


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Does that explain how this felt? 

Whats next? Is Jes Goodwin also going to leave GW? (<--- The one who posts a thread with that name will feel the power of negrep spam and hate mail...)


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

wonder if it had anything to do with this ?
http://www.warlordgames.co.uk/?p=4695


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

This doesn't mean the new forge world empire models are going to be cancelled right? As long as they are still coming I don't care


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## VanitusMalus (Jun 27, 2009)

man to hear Rick's leaving is crap. I always thought Rick and some of the old dogs are the ones who brought story and character to the 40K universe. Their rules were always creative and inventive and maybe they weren't the sort of rules were it was always an advantage to your army, but made for a good laugh when executed at the right time. Hope Rick does well in his new endeavor. If anyone knows what that is or whenever anyone finds out post it.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Good riddance.

I'm tired of the hippy-like mentality GW has toward its games. I want new blood to come in and take over and continue to push out more balanced and competitive armies for all the game systems, even the ones I don't play. Rick is one of the "good old boys" who is only interested in the "beer and pretzels" kind of play that I'm not interested in.

I respect Rick for having a huge role in the creation of 40K, but that doesn't mean he knows what's good for the future of the game.


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## aquatic_foible (Mar 17, 2010)

I was wondering about this - how is Warhammer Forge going to operate? Is it simply an "arm" of GW, or will it be a separate / independent company in its own right? If the latter is true, could it be that Rick Priestly has resigned his position at GW to "officially" take a top role at Warhammer Forge?

Personally, i wouldn't be surprised if he eventually ended up on the other side of the pond, at Blizzard...quite a few GW alumni have migrated there over the years [Andy Chambers and Mark Gibbons being names that spring immediately to mind].


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Bindi Baji said:


> how on earth do you come to this conclusion?,
> it's like saying the reason the underground is shut is because sainsburys are low on milk


Because pretty much every other company is laying off staff to save money because of the goverment cuts.... thats how.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> I want new blood to come in and take over and continue to push out more balanced and competitive armies for all the game systems, even the ones I don't play. Rick is one of the "good old boys" who is only interested in the "beer and pretzels" kind of play that I'm not interested in.
> 
> I respect Rick for having a huge role in the creation of 40K, but that doesn't mean he knows what's good for the future of the game.


You have seen what the "New Blood" has done to 8th edition fantasy right? Or 5th edition compared to 4th ed, which Rick Priestly and Andy chambers wrote?

The new blood ain't doing anything for you on that front, they're going backwards, and writing looser rules sets as they do so. I'm not saying they're writing bad games, just that they aren't making them more competitively minded or balanced! The "Old Guard" aren't all Jervis Johnsons.

Rick was also involved in Necromunda and Gorka Morka - two games that a lot of people will feel attachment to, and the sort of games that GW just gave up on some years back. So there's a lot of history with him, and you can see why people would be sad that he's leaving.

Hopefully though, he gets to go out and start some of his own projects again, though he's much more into the historical gaming side of things now anyway.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

maddermax said:


> You have seen what the "New Blood" has done to 8th edition fantasy right? Or 5th edition compared to 4th ed, which Rick Priestly and Andy chambers wrote?


Yes, and I prefer it.



> The new blood ain't doing anything for you on that front, they're going backwards, and writing looser rules sets as they do so.


I'd have to disagree with you here, but this isn't really the place to discuss it.


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

What's wrong with beer and pretzel gaming? I play for fun. What's the point of playing a game if the reason is not primarily to enjoy yourself?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

tu_shan82 said:


> What's wrong with beer and pretzel gaming? I play for fun. What's the point of playing a game if the reason is not primarily to enjoy yourself?


Was really hoping to avoid opening this particular can of worms here, but alright, here goes.

Contrary to popular belief, competitive players like myself play for fun. Yes, we _do_ actually enjoy ourselves. We have fun by doing the best we can to defeat our opponents in a fair, balanced game in a positive environment. It's about trying to mentally out-muscle the opponent and enjoying the challenge of doing so.

What's wrong with beer and pretzel gaming? Nothing, in of itself. It's just irritating when the company that you buy your products from pushes that sort of play on you when it isn't what you want. I for one don't want half-assed semi-balanced Codecies or rulebooks that are no good for competitive play, no matter how great more casual gamers might think they are. It's also irritating because since GW has tended to push their games as more casual things, most people that are interested in their stuff tend to adopt a similar philosophy. This makes it more difficult for people like myself to find others of our ilk.

I don't have fun when beating the living crap out of someone's army who isn't doing their best to win. It's like kicking a puppy or something - it's no challenge, it's mean and nobody gains anything from it. The casual gamer has no fun because he's getting steamrolled and I have no fun because I could have a more challenging tactical exercise (the entire reason I'm playing the game) while sleeping.

Rick and a lot of the good ol boys are the types of players that I respect as people and as hobbyists, but cannot relate to as fellow players of the game because we have vastly different goals when setting up our plastic and pewter men on the tabletop. For them, the fun comes in getting together with a bunch of friends and pushing toy soldiers around, rolling dice, coming up with cool special rules and stories to better represent the imaginary conflict happening before them all while getting all kinds of drunk and fat. While I can appreciate the appeal of booze and junk food as much as the next person, I'm personally bored to tears in this sort of gaming environment. It doesn't stimulate my mind in the way I prefer. Have you ever tried to defeat a child at chess? Now try playing a child who's drunk and is focusing more on his snack than the game in front of him and you'll get an idea of what it's like for a competitive player in these sorts of environments.

I want Games Workshop to continue writing tight rules and Codecies. I want GW to support the tournament scene better than they're currently doing. I want GW to better support and ratify the rules that they write for all of their game systems. I want the _game_ (not the hobby as a whole, just the game) to improve, but I don't think that can happen as long as we have a company full of casual players running the show. Thus, when one of the people that are contributing to my frustration falls off the boat I don't tend to get overly upset.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Katie, i think your going to be frustrated,no amount of new blood is going to change the companies approach to the game rules, 40k and warhammer are casual, tight rules and the tournament scene are alien concepts to the folks at lenton.


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

Which is one of the reasons I find Warmachine quite apealling.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I'm with maddermax regarding the new bloods: they aren't helping much, if at all. Otherwise people would actually like Matt Ward and not hate and laugh at him. You know, all those blocks of 40+ models, retarded spells, spiritual liege and trapped behind their own defenses stuff. And the list goes on.

But when it comes to the competitive vs casual debate, Katie has pretty much summed up the issue for me. But then theres what B&K said. Thats why I'm switching to Warmachine: its designed and balanced for competitive play (every army can be pretty mean with the right combos), whereas 40K boils down to having the latest, preferably imperial codex, and WHFB isn't any different. Its just sad, I used to be very enthusiastic about these two games, but suddenly, a flood of shit starting last December. Goodness. O_O

Edit: like-minded ninjas are always welcome. :grin:


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

No offense, but if you're after a competitive game why not just play chess? There's an endless supply of competitive players and you can replace the pieces with your 40k/fantasy models if that tickles your fancy.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I've returned to the game just recently, not played a game yet, still painting my army but after reading through the rules for WHFB I get the impression it is a lot easier to understand.

It also makes a lot more sense. I hated having a unit of ten handgunners and only 5 of them ever shooting, I hated having units being charged and being wiped out without even having the chance to fight back. I've been reading the books since I was little and this edition of WHFB just makes a lot more sense and is a lot more realistic.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> No offense, but if you're after a competitive game why not just play chess? There's an endless supply of competitive players and you can replace the pieces with your 40k/fantasy models if that tickles your fancy.


Chess is to strategy games as WoW is to real life: a noob-friendly imitation for beginners. If chess would satisfy our minds then there wouldn't be a whole industry making PC games.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Chess is a memory games lets be honest. The best players remeber the best moves from old games and select the most likly combination of moves to win.

Katie, I can see your point, and although I dont agree with it entirly I always thought there was room for many different type of gamers in this hobby. And because of that we do need different types of designers. Personally I like playing power gamers occasionally, even if my army gets trousered in the process. I learn more when playing against a strong list and it teaches me how to use my weaker units better.

I've always liked Rick Priestly (even met him a couple of times), and its a shame he has left or is leaving. I hope he does well in what ever he chooses to pursue. If its warhammer Historical I may be tempted to get it and see how it works.

But I think GW will survive in tact without him and new blood will hopefully come in and put a stop to the constant codex creep we are getting this edition.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Rick going wont change anything, hes a game designer, they have the games and they havent released a new game since lord of the rings, his days were always numbered.
The rule books and the codexes will just get rehashed with a new edition for years to come and the newer writers will add new flavour and fluff as we go along.
Besides hes of that age were if hes been smart hes paid off his house and his kids have left home and hes got a few quid in the bank and hes spreading his creative wings, either that or he was jaded by the companies direction and has buggered off down the road to work with his mates at warlord, they are producing minis for the area hes a huge fan of so it would make sense to go freelance and work on a rule set for warlord.
Either way GW will keep doing what its doing the way its doing it because it works, they have been at it for 30 years they are not going to suddenly change direction because one employee has gone.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Contrary to popular belief, competitive players like myself play for fun. Yes, we _do_ actually enjoy ourselves. We have fun by doing the best we can to defeat our opponents in a fair, balanced game in a positive environment. It's about trying to mentally out-muscle the opponent and enjoying the challenge of doing so.


I agree. I'm one of these players. I have tried using deliberately sub-optimal lists and I just can't stand it. I have to build a competitive list or I don't enjoy playing it.



Katie Drake said:


> What's wrong with beer and pretzel gaming? Nothing, in of itself. It's just irritating when the company that you buy your products from pushes that sort of play on you when it isn't what you want. I for one don't want half-assed semi-balanced Codecies or rulebooks that are no good for competitive play, no matter how great more casual gamers might think they are. It's also irritating because since GW has tended to push their games as more casual things, most people that are interested in their stuff tend to adopt a similar philosophy. This makes it more difficult for people like myself to find others of our ilk.


This game system has never revolved around competitive play. You knew that going in. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of GWs income came from the 11-16 age bracket. You can't have a seriously competitive system without alienating that age bracket. Therefore they cannot turn around and make it all about the tournaments, all the time. They have to try to cover all the hobby bases - casual, hardcore, fluff, painting, sculpting etc. If they focused exclusively on one area of the game, they would go out of business overnight.

Basically, I've been playing since WD156, and in all that time I have read uncountable articles on having fun games, thinking dramatically about battles and having a narrative, being creative in your approach to army building and terrain making, and ideas for unusual scenarios.

What I haven't seen is any articles listing the top 10 players at a given tournament, with a copy of their army list, a picture of their army, an interview or two that goes over their tactics and how they put together their list, a battle report between two competitive gamers with their own armies (not the studios collection of eminently well painted shit) or an article focusing on competitive archetypes (Mechdar, Lash, Nob Bikers or anything else).

Given all of the above, I don't see how you can complain about casualness being "forced" upon you. It seems more to me like you're the one trying to force competitiveness on everyone else.

*However (please read this carefully):*

The articles I've listed as being never printed in WD are _exactly_ the type of articles I would _want to read_. I would _love_ it if they started accomodating more competitive players by publishing guides on playing "hardcore", a monthly list of top-tier armies, interviewed people who won tournaments etc.

I would also love it if they made codicies tighter, with unambiguous rules, and made every army have a competitive archetype (if not multiple archetypes) _while retaining the ability to have games that are not entirely about the winning._



Katie Drake said:


> I don't have fun when beating the living crap out of someone's army who isn't doing their best to win. It's like kicking a puppy or something - it's no challenge, it's mean and nobody gains anything from it. The casual gamer has no fun because he's getting steamrolled and I have no fun because I could have a more challenging tactical exercise (the entire reason I'm playing the game) while sleeping.


*I agree.* However isn't that a problem with your opponent selection? If you have problems finding a good competitive game, then I suggest that you simply live in a bad area. I sometimes have a hard time finding someone good to play against, but I'm fully aware that there are other clubs, in other places, that play competitively all night, every night. GW is not responsible for your local demographic.



Katie Drake said:


> while getting all kinds of drunk and fat. While I can appreciate the appeal of booze and junk food as much as the next person, I'm personally bored to tears in this sort of gaming environment. It doesn't stimulate my mind in the way I prefer. Have you ever tried to defeat a child at chess? Now try playing a child who's drunk and is focusing more on his snack than the game in front of him and you'll get an idea of what it's like for a competitive player in these sorts of environments.


I think this is unnecessarily derogatory towards people who play casually. I've never been drunk while playing, and nor have any of my opponents. You're taking bad lifestyle choices (drinking, obesity) and tarring everyone who isn't a GT player with the same brush. Please don't do it. You're intelligent enough to know that it's not right. Of course there ARE people who get drunk and eat chips while playing Warhammer, but thankfully I've never met one. When I play casually, it's because I'm having a bit of a laugh with my friends while having fun, just like when I play Counter Strike Source (which can also be played competitively) or sports.




Katie Drake said:


> I want Games Workshop to continue writing tight rules and Codecies. I want GW to support the tournament scene better than they're currently doing. I want GW to better support and ratify the rules that they write for all of their game systems. I want the _game_ (not the hobby as a whole, just the game) to improve


Me too. Wholeheartedly.



Katie Drake said:


> but I don't think that can happen as long as we have a company full of casual players running the show. Thus, when one of the people that are contributing to my frustration falls off the boat I don't tend to get overly upset.


I don't think that it's the casual players that are the main source of the problem. I think it's the fact that GW has never tapped into the competitive scene as a source of revenue. If they took a leaf out of, say, Magic: The Gathering's book, and had an international Pro Tour, with local, regional, and national qualifiers and a large prize for the winner, then they might actually make some money out of it. Hell, I'd be happy if they established some kind of DCI system, where you could keep track of your win/loss record and see your national rankings if you wanted to.

The problem is, they cannot put such a system in place so long as the rules and the hobby itself are so flawed. It's a bit of a catch-22. You can't have a good tournament scene because the game is so casual, and you have a casual game because there isn't enough of a tournament scene to financially power changes to the game. It would take an effort (and willingness to spend money) on GWs part to get the competitive scene rolling, but why should they? There's nothing in it for them.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I never played with "beardy" or overpowered list, I like the composition make up and while I try to make a decent army I never go out of my way to make it unstoppable, for example I'm deliberating leaving out a Steam Tank from my Empire army. If I lose to a "competitive list" I don't have any problems instead I think good for them, but then I think well I'd find no enjoyment in creating a deliberately over powered army as it ruins the fun of the challenge.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Maybe he is jumping over to Mantic Games? Wouldnt that be another slap in the face of GW


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## the-graven (Apr 26, 2010)

Just as Sethis I would like to read those articles about top-5 or top-10 players and their lists and tactics, I and a lot of other people could learn a lot from that, so if you're on this forum, and you get in top-10 of a huge tournament, perhaps make an article with your list, tactics and perhaps some pictures of your army, it's much appreciated.

the-graven


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

MadCowCrazy said:


> Maybe he is jumping over to Mantic Games? Wouldnt that be another slap in the face of GW


Seems highly unlikely, apart from the name that are GW and i cant see him swapping a secure well paid(i assume) established company to do the same for a GW clone in this financial climate.
To be honest what does it matter, we dont even know if the rumor is true or not lol , could just be PP spreading bullshit to gain some sales.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Sethis said:


> This game system has never revolved around competitive play. You knew that going in. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of GWs income came from the 11-16 age bracket. You can't have a seriously competitive system without alienating that age bracket. Therefore they cannot turn around and make it all about the tournaments, all the time. They have to try to cover all the hobby bases - casual, hardcore, fluff, painting, sculpting etc. If they focused exclusively on one area of the game, they would go out of business overnight.


Yeah, I don't actually want GW to come to the point where all it does is push competitive play 24/7. That'd actually be just as bad. I'm not asking for the company to toss aside all notions of the hobby or casual play, I just want them to give some _visible_ support to the competitive side.



> Given all of the above, I don't see how you can complain about casualness being "forced" upon you. It seems more to me like you're the one trying to force competitiveness on everyone else.


I see your point, however all I can do is assure you that the last thing I want is to force people that are paying their money on a product to do stuff with it that they don't want to do. A lot of people may not believe it, but I'm actually not out to destroy every person that doesn't share my views, or sweep them under the rug or anything like that. If I'm coming across in that manner, it's probably because my frustration with the situation is spilling over into my posts. For that I apologize.



> *I agree.* However isn't that a problem with your opponent selection? If you have problems finding a good competitive game, then I suggest that you simply live in a bad area. I sometimes have a hard time finding someone good to play against, but I'm fully aware that there are other clubs, in other places, that play competitively all night, every night. GW is not responsible for your local demographic.


Not especially. I happen to live in an area where competitive play is pretty much the norm. I'd say about half of the player base is into competitive play where the other half is a bit more casual, but is quite content to throw down with the more serious players of the group. The number of "scrubs" (and I use the term loosely, as I don't even particularly like it) in my area is smaller than in most areas, at least from what I can ascertain from talking to other people about their groups and so on.

What I'm trying to do is bring the more competitive scene outside of my group. It's all well and fine that I can have a great time at my local club, but what about people that aren't as lucky as me?



> I think this is unnecessarily derogatory towards people who play casually. I've never been drunk while playing, and nor have any of my opponents. You're taking bad lifestyle choices (drinking, obesity) and tarring everyone who isn't a GT player with the same brush. Please don't do it. You're intelligent enough to know that it's not right. Of course there ARE people who get drunk and eat chips while playing Warhammer, but thankfully I've never met one. When I play casually, it's because I'm having a bit of a laugh with my friends while having fun, just like when I play Counter Strike Source (which can also be played competitively) or sports.


Yeah, this was actually intended to be humorous rather than insulting. I was using an extreme example (and detailed descriptions of it) for comedic value while attempting to make my point. I don't actually believe that all casual players are drunk, fat people that can't stop stuffing their faces or anything along those lines.



> I don't think that it's the casual players that are the main source of the problem. I think it's the fact that GW has never tapped into the competitive scene as a source of revenue. If they took a leaf out of, say, Magic: The Gathering's book, and had an international Pro Tour, with local, regional, and national qualifiers and a large prize for the winner, then they might actually make some money out of it. Hell, I'd be happy if they established some kind of DCI system, where you could keep track of your win/loss record and see your national rankings if you wanted to.


Agreed. That'd be awesome. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen unless someone screams _"wake the fuck up!"_ in GW's ear. I'm not delusional enough to believe that I can accomplish this by myself, but I'm not the only person trying to do this. I guess time will tell.



> The problem is, they cannot put such a system in place so long as the rules and the hobby itself are so flawed. It's a bit of a catch-22. You can't have a good tournament scene because the game is so casual, and you have a casual game because there isn't enough of a tournament scene to financially power changes to the game. It would take an effort (and willingness to spend money) on GWs part to get the competitive scene rolling, but why should they? There's nothing in it for them.


You actually can have a good tournament scene. In fact, it's starting in the US right now. Earlier this year there was an event called the Nova Open which had just the right amount of focus on competitive play and was a massive success. Nova was the inspiration for a number of other small and new events who are adopting what people call the "Nova system", which refers to the way that the event is run, scored and so on. Pre-registration for the second Nova Open started only a couple days ago and so far the numbers are extremely promising.

Games Workshop isn't going to directly support the competitive scene any time soon, but players that want a more hardcore style are taking steps to make it happen themselves. Who knows where we'll be in five years time?


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

What do you mean by the term "scrubs"?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Words_of_Truth said:


> What do you mean by the term "scrubs"?


Eh, it's a term used to describe people that don't play competitively in any way, shape or form. Basically people that are mostly into painting or whatever.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Katie Drake said:


> Eh, it's a term used to describe people that don't play competitively in any way, shape or form. Basically people that are mostly into painting or whatever.


lol Isn't that a little derogative for people who simply treat it like the hobby it is?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Words_of_Truth said:


> lol Isn't that a little derogative for people who simply treat it like the hobby it is?


Yeah, hence why I attempted to make it clear that I wasn't actually a fan of the term. I only used it because the post was long enough as is and I was trying to speed through it.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Never heard the term used before that's all, just seems a bit arrogant to call people who simply enjoy the hobby something degrading. 

A scrubber in the uk is has connotations with either slutty women or a tramp/homeless person.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Never heard the term used before that's all, just seem a bit arrogant to call people who simply enjoy the hobby something degrading.
> 
> A scrubber in the uk is has connotations with either slutter women or a tramp/homeless person.


Yup. Again, I tried to make it clear that I don't actually like the term or agree with its use.

As for the "scrubber" thing... I assure you that's not at all what I meant.


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

I find it funny that you think that competitive play is not taken into account as much as other aspects when imo GT play is exactly what drove the massive changes to the last CSM Codex. ( Mainly to get rid of the cheesy Iron Warrior lists that suddenly dominated pre change.)

I think I might object to the term _scrub_ and wonder what the origin of the term is?


I feel its a shame that Rick Priestly has moved on from GW for whatever reasons.
I thank him for all the fun I have had in the hobby since Rogue Trader and wish him luck in the future.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Viscount Vash said:


> I find it funny that you think that competitive play is not taken into account as much as other aspects when imo GT play is exactly what drove the massive changes to the last CSM Codex. ( Mainly to get rid of the cheesy Iron Warrior lists that suddenly dominated pre change.)


I'd disagree that GT play is what prompted GW to change the old Chaos 'Dex. While it was almost certainly a contributing factor, I think most of the reason for the changes was because most people had a hard time either understanding the rules inside the Codex (for example, not going over point limits for wargear or Daemonic Gifts) or following them with any degree of accuracy. The late 3rd edition version of Codex: Chaos Space Marines was simply too complex and didn't match up with the standardization that Games Workshop was leaning toward down the road.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Didn't hear the irony in the "beer and pretzels" part Katie, sorry.

I wouldn't define the term "Scrub" by referencing other areas of the hobby. In my mind a scrub is someone who is absolutely terrible at playing the game, despite bending a lot of effort towards achieving that goal. Whether it's because he can't pick a good list to save his life or has no concept of tactics or probability, he tries to win but never does. Everyone can beat him, including the slightly strange guy in the corner with a Codex: CSM army made entirely of Lesser Daemons. I wouldn't call someone who enjoys painting a scrub, because he's made it clear that winning games is not important to him, so I don't expect him to be an amazing player. A "scrub" on the other hand, tries to make out that he is a good player when he clearly isn't.

And for the record, I don't like the term either.


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Cheers for the definition Sethis.

I can now consider myself not a scrub, I do my competing in the real world and have hobbies to relax or blow off steam.

Your most entitled to disagree KD 

Your wish will never happen with the rolling Codex release system though.
Might be worth formulating a thread dedicated to this _can of worms_ though lol.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> I'd disagree that GT play is what prompted GW to change the old Chaos 'Dex. While it was almost certainly a contributing factor, I think most of the reason for the changes was because most people had a hard time either understanding the rules inside the Codex (for example, not going over point limits for wargear or Daemonic Gifts) or following them with any degree of accuracy. The late 3rd edition version of Codex: Chaos Space Marines was simply too complex and didn't match up with the standardization that Games Workshop was leaning toward down the road.


Yup, the main motivation was to simplify the Codex. To the point where you can't come up with different Mark effects for a DP (Khornate DPs anyone? Especially in that brand new tactica... :laugh and the Legions, defining characters of the fluff of 40K, are reduced to paint schemes. And people got payed for this. Ridiculous.

Oh and about "scrubs", I can relate to that feeling: non-competitive players tend to have an awful aura of weakness and paper-balls. You can kinda see the shadow of Darwin's Scythe looming over them, waiting for the best moment to strike.  But then again, there are those guys who just enjoy fooling around and playing with toys. They're likeable fellows.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

Hmm, scrubs here are people who are just not very impressive in any way. I often wonder at how words can gain totally different meanings when you cross the pond. My personal favorite is ***. Here in the US that would be a derogatory name that an asshole would call person of a homosexual nature, predominately directed toward males, (although my sister's girlfriend calls my sister a *** all the time?!?). In the UK in the '90's anyways it was a cigarette.

On topic, perhaps he had a disagreement with the direction the company was going and has decided to move on. As long as GW does not shut down or fucking ruin 40K by doing something really stupid then, hey, what can we do about it. Good luck to him, but I never met the man so it really does not matter to me.


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## Daniel Harper (May 25, 2008)

Errrmmmm, my local GW has said he hasn't left. Who do I believe? :shok:


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Daniel Harper said:


> Errrmmmm, my local GW has said he hasn't left. Who do I believe? :shok:


The internet, as local GW's don't usually know anything.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I think its more likely that hes just moved to do Warhammer forge stuff and Chinese internet whispers being what they are translate that to hes left the company.


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## Phil73805 (Feb 28, 2010)

To be brutally honest I find this difficult to believe. I had a long chat with him at Games Day (I used to know him well back in the day) and the chances of him leaving just as his farewell project, Warhammer Forge, is getting under way is highly improbable.

He wanted to retire with the Warhammer story finished and done in the way he had always envisioned it and while I disagreed with his approach there was no doubting his passion. I may of course be wrong and something major may have changed but I really doubt he's gone. The man's an icon.


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## shas'o Thraka (Jan 4, 2010)

I have heard of him, but never had much experience with any of his 'works' so to speak, so this doesn't really affect me.

What does annoy me is how people say the game was better in the 'old days.' I you don't like the game as it is, don't play.


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## VanitusMalus (Jun 27, 2009)

It's not that we don't like the game as it is but the game was way more involved and unique in the "ole' days". As I've said and I'm sure some others would agree the game has become simpler with each incarnation that has been released. One thing I didn't like about 3rd edition (which made the DE really suffer) was they concentrated less on fluff and more on rules. 1st and 2nd edition were filled with fluff and story and gave life to the game, it was so unique it caught the eye of many because unlike other games it put a lot of models in your hand and gave you a background of who and what they were. 

3rd edition was simply a story here, a story there and lots of rules. They took the 3 rulebook concept (The main rulebook, Wargear book, and Units book) and reduced them to one rulebook. They removed the Psychic phase (which was always good fun) and the cards for wargear and psychic powers. 3rd edition just felt easy. Now I'm sure this was because of growing popularity and the demand to dumb it down for newbies (which is the word my gaming group used not scrubs), but it just had more life.

I do appreciate the fact they have returned to fluff with the 3.5 dexes and the 4th and 5th edition releases. I hate the fact they took all the character out of the C:CSM. If I ever face against someone running a Lash DP with Khorne Bezerkers and a Nurgle Sorcerer I'm going to have to burn your models with a holy flamer, sorry but that is probably the most unfluffy combo one could ever put together. As Katie stated C:CSM Codex 3.5 (I think it was) was complex but the game is complex and if that Codex caused people to pull their hair out because they couldn't write up a list without going over on points, than they probably should have switched to Hero Clix or Pokemon Card Battles (hmm maybe the latter would have been to complex also).

Anyway Rick gave life to a hobby many of us have most of our life. I've been playing since I was 13 (18 years ago). I wish they had stuck with Rick's original concepts but hey everything evolves, lets just hope it evolves like **** Sapien and not like **** Erectus.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

shas'o Thraka said:


> I have heard of him, but never had much experience with any of his 'works' so to speak, so this doesn't really affect me.


Well, I can understand you haven't played Necromunda or Gorka Morka, but you haven't played 40k or fantasy either? He helped create those from scratch too, many years back  The game you play is built on the game he helped create. I'm sure there's a quote about "shoulders of giants" that applies here somehow...

You can see why some people might be sentimental about his leaving.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

Katie Drake said:


> The internet, as local GW's don't usually know anything.


And the internet is the home of unbiased accurate truth and balance? :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

the cabbage said:


> And the internet is the home of unbiased accurate truth and balance? :laugh::laugh::laugh:


Not even close. But you'll find that the interweb rumors about GW stuff are pretty bang on about 3 months before something comes out. GW staff are notoriously awful sources.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Not even close. But you'll find that the interweb rumors about GW stuff are pretty bang on about 3 months before something comes out. GW staff are notoriously awful sources.


That's because they're pretty much kept in the dark until that three month period, and they know what happens to people who leak stuff.


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## monketo (Jan 6, 2008)

What is he doing now? Does anyone know?


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

monketo said:


> What is he doing now? Does anyone know?


having his dinner I believe


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## cheech (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi All,
When I heard this rumor a week ago, I was quite shocked to hear it. I Spoke to a mate of mine who knows him quite well. He'd spoken to Rick directly on the phone and confirmed it. Based on this I beleive it's 100% definately truth and no rumour. Although RP didn't go into any details obviously as he and GW are going through the settlement package. It appears it was a shock to him too. As some have mentioned, already it was coming from the "redundancy" angle. (but I've seen that angle used in places I work to cover a multitude of sins - Not that I say this is the same case here, he and we may never know the real rason). And anyway, IF it is announced to be redundancy then wouldn't It be strange that we've not heard of any other "brass" going too??? (ooooowh my suspicious mind lol). 

I find it very difficult to believe that he's let go in the beginning/middle of the Warhamer Forge plans. It all seemed very interesting to me, playing around with the whole WH fantasy timeline with the license he had (Must say I was pleasantly surprised at what things he was planning on doing with WF on GD 2010 and was looking forward to it). I hope that wasn't the issue that put the powers above noses out of joint to have this happen to him. GW needs to move in different directions - it awakens new ideas IMO!

Sad news of the grand daddy of the Warhammer world we all are fond of. Who's next eh? John Blanche, Jes? If they do I'll tell em all what for!


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

It would be almost impossible to make Rick redundant, sorry but thats not how redundancy works.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> It would be almost impossible to make Rick redundant, sorry but thats not how redundancy works.


Not true. Redundancy is simply where your position is being abolished, as they have no need of it, as opposed to firing, which is where they still want the position, but not you in it. If he was in charge of the setting up of Warhammer Forge, and finished that task, then they could make him redundant (as the setup is no longer being done) and give the management position to someone else. Or they might have decided to roll Warhammer Forge into Forgeworld, or just restructured Warhammer Forge's hierarchy in some way so that RPs position disappeared. There are many reasons he could have been made redundant.


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## cheech (Apr 19, 2008)

Well Redundancy, that's just a word that's been banded around. Ppl can call it what they will. Fact of the matter I'm trying to get across is. He's going, they'll label it how that want, it was not his intention to go (as he was G-ed up for this new venture in WF). I hope the decision can be turned around for him. I Sincerely do.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

maddermax said:


> Not true. Redundancy is simply where instead of firing you, they say your position is being abolished, as they have no need of it. If he was in charge of the setting up of Warhammer Forge, and finished that task, then they could make him redundant (as the setup is no longer being done) and give the management position to someone else. Or they might have decided to roll Warhammer Forge into Forgeworld, or just restructured Warhammer Forge's hierarchy in some way so that RPs position disappeared. There are many reasons he could have been made redundant.


That maybe possible in other countries but in the UK the redundancy laws are water tight, infact its very difficult loose a job once you have been working with a company for longer than 2 years, Hes one of (if not thee)the longest serving members of staff so a pay off would be very high and hes a very creative talent not to mention his recent and very public work with warhammer forge.

Im not saying hes still with the company im saying redundancy cant be used to remove people from positions at a whim, restructuring at that level to loose 1 person would be extremely dangerous and would see GW in a tribunal and handing over a significant amount of cash and any HR manager would know that as would there legal team, they may have offered him early retirement but as they have kept hold of a very sick john blanche and stuck by him through think and thin, i think its very very unlikely GW board would force Rick out of the door just to save a few quid, and as we already know they dont need to cut costs of that nature and his yearly salary wouldnt be significant enough to be of concern. 

As i have said before its most likely someone got the wrong end of the stick and mistook him going to do warhammer forge as leaving GW.

Im not convinced hes left and in all honesty i cant see GW letting a talent like Rick just walk away, hes far too valuable an asset to be a freebooter.


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## cheech (Apr 19, 2008)

Mate, I wish that were true about UK redundancy laws as I wouldn't have been turfted out of a role that was still clearly needed recently. I lasted 3months, TUPE laws as FANTASTIC as they may seem can ALWAYS be worked around if they need to. Don't think for 1 minute there's this shieid of protection for us as they have bigger pockets than us and MUCH better access to lawyers.  
It's all bye-the-bye as time will tell when it's annonced or not.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

This is what I have been told by an ex GW store manager (one of the first stores) who is still friendly with GW

He has left, he is not allowed to talk about it yet, it sounds like it was expected.
I have no idea if he has gone to warlord games, although there were/are talks


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

I wish him the best of luck, without the old and bold the hobby would have little or none of the depth which we enjoy today.

And the hardened tournie players can be as dismissive as they like but they also enjoy the other aspects of the hobby or they'd migrate to a tighter rules set.


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## cheech (Apr 19, 2008)

Oh Dear, the news gets worse... I've also just heard that JJ is another name in the frame to go. But this time I believe he left after hearing Rick was going.. Whether it's for the same reason or he felt that RP going didn't sit well with him I can only speculate. Sad sad news.... I hope again it's not true. Just relaying what I've heard.... again from good sources..


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

cheech said:


> Oh Dear, the news gets worse... I've also just heard that JJ is another name in the frame to go. But this time I believe he left after hearing Rick was going.. Whether it's for the same reason or he felt that RP going didn't sit well with him I can only speculate. Sad sad news.... I hope again it's not true. Just relaying what I've heard.... again from good sources..


Yes! *YES!* Bwahahahaha!

Finally, no more Jervis. Thank goodness. :biggrin:


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

cheech said:


> Oh Dear, the news gets worse... I've also just heard that JJ is another name in the frame to go.


I hope you're being sarcastic.


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

Generally speaking I wouldn't have much to say against Jervis, however after the fucked up piece of over priced toilet paper that is "Codex Dark Angels", I wouldn't miss him if he went.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

cheech said:


> Oh Dear, the news gets worse... I've also just heard that JJ is another name in the frame to go. But this time I believe he left after hearing Rick was going.. Whether it's for the same reason or he felt that RP going didn't sit well with him I can only speculate. Sad sad news.... I hope again it's not true. Just relaying what I've heard.... again from good sources..


I think i'll miss the overall influence he has but I won't miss his dog shit column in WD. I like the overall hobby and if the rules aren't water tight then so be it.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

My sales rep said they both looked very employed this morning when he saw them at the coffee machine getting a brew.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

That means very little ... I have been layed off while the company was still hiring. :grin: They might have a couple of weeks while all things get settled as far as money goes.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

OIIIIIIO said:


> That means very little ... I have been layed off while the company was still hiring. :grin: They might have a couple of weeks while all things get settled as far as money goes.


they were both wearing Tshirts saying "we have not left, dont listen to internet rumours, as they are mostly bullshit"


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> they were both wearing Tshirts saying "we have not left, dont listen to internet rumours, as they are *mostly* bullshit"


My bold.

Surely this means that in fact they have started a coup and all of the other heads of GW are trussed up in a back room with a man in a gimp suit and a cop that looks like a Village People singer dropping his pants AS WE SPEAK!!!

Oh the humanity! :grin:

If Rick goes that's a shame, if Jervis goes hopefully the door slams and hits him up the arse on the way out.


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## VanitusMalus (Jun 27, 2009)

then after the door hits him up the ass it falls off it's hinges into a mini black hole and through some strange quantum leap wipes the past clean of all work he has done with GW.


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## World Eater (Aug 31, 2008)

Hail,

I don't think JJ would be a decent offering to the Blood God!! No loss there.
On Rick, if he's gone that's too bad, but he already did so much for the GW brand. I don't believe that GW will just up and change all the things that RP has created/designed for the games.

BFTBG!!

World Eater


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