# I just saw the Vampire counts and WOW



## hacknslashgamer (Jan 28, 2009)

I love the idea of an ancient vampire raising a horde of undead to destroy human kind.
Can anybody share strong points and the weak spots of this army my other army is Dwarf's I think Vampire counts could be a fun army to play any comments would be of great help.


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## VeronaKid (Jan 7, 2010)

Although I have never actually owned a VC army, I've played against them numerous times. . .in old editions. Combining what I know from my experiences with my month-long knowledge of eighth edition, here's my thoughts:

Vampire Lords are, and always will be, up there with Chaos Lords as the be-all-end-all close combat beasts. When you combine that ability with their ability to cast, you get what is probably the best non-special-character characters in the game. So pro number one is really good entries in the heroes/lords sections of your list.

Core infantry is con number one. From what I've read, zombies have become relatively worthless in 8th, and skeletons never really did anything except auto-break elite units that had a bad round of dice rolling. . .and now they don't do that anymore with the change to the fear rules.

Special/Rare choices, like every army, have their own good and bad points. I've always gotten slaughtered by Vargulfs, so I shoot them with everything that can draw a line of fire to them. The Black Coach is an uber-chariot, but like all big single models, is susceptible to dwarven/empire gunlines and stone throwers- both of which are way more accurate now.

Finally, I know that the old addage when using this army was to take lots of low-level necromancers who could then cast lots and lots of movement and raise dead spells; now, the number of magic users you have is not nearly as relevant, since the winds of magic rolls determine the number of power dice you have. So, I would imagine that the old days of getting overrun during the VC magic phase is (thankfully) behind us.

Just my thoughts.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Raising the dead. That's the weakest part of the army.

In the past, you could have a large number of casters and just raise up more dead bodies for your army in game.

Now, though, even a L2 can shut you down so effectively that what you've spent will be useless.

Although - I recommend having a go with the Transformation of Kadon on a Red Fury Ethereal Vampire.

Let's just say hilarity ensues, especially when you give him the combat power when untransformed - after they've dispelled it, they've then got to deal with the Vampire.


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## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

EXPENSIVE... I am talking some of the models are just way expensive money wise... I think there is a unit of cav that is like $90 because they the old pewter ones....


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## hacknslashgamer (Jan 28, 2009)

Yeah the Blood Knights are 90.00


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

They are the best cavalry in the game though, and they are actually the newest models in the vampire count range.

Vamps are a really tough army to play as in 8th, they always had bad troops but they had an unlimited number of them, now that life machine can be shut down really easily. The lack of duplicate spells means that theres no more multicasting of curse of years or hellish vigour.

Also now that the lore of life has decent healing spells our healable dragons simply are not as special or as good as they were.

Mannfred is still an absolute beast of a character though


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## rodmillard (Mar 23, 2010)

Farseer_Iowan said:


> EXPENSIVE... I am talking some of the models are just way expensive money wise... I think there is a unit of cav that is like $90 because they the old pewter ones....


The answer to that (unless you have to play in a GW store) is don't use them. Morghul knights (from the LOTR range) give you six plastic models with command options for £20. I'm building a VC army atm using a mixture of Mantic and LOTR minis - all together (when its assembled) I will have close on 3000 points for under £120.

The drawback with VC, as has been said, is the core. Don't bother buying zombies - just raise them in game, use the Sceptre de Noirot to guarantee units of 10+ and use them to disrupt units already engaged. Skeletons are your Tarpit (I run mine 5 wide by 6 deep to deny steadfast) but don't expect them to do much else. Ghouls are the only hard hitters we have in core, thanks to 2A and poison, but to get the most out of them you need to run the units wide rather than deep, and they can't take banners so will almost always lose out on static CR. The innate bound spell on the corpse cart is always worth a shot too, although remember they don't count towards your minimum 25%.

The special choices are nice - never leave home without at least one unit of Grave Guard and/or Black Knights, but they can be a points sink if youre not careful. 

But where the army really shines is in the rare section. Blood Knights are, without doubt, the best heavy cavalry in the game although they are harder to use in 8th - enemy units will almost certainly have steadfast, so while you will do massive ammounts of damage on the charge you can no longer rely on breaking infantry blocks with them. Wraiths are still a good hammer unit, but the Unstable rule means that you have to pick your fights carefully. For the same reason, the Varghulf is now relegated to a supporting role. The black coach is now obscene, as it now draws power dice directly from the pool and can very easily max out its abilities by the end of turn two. Don't forget that all your rare choices except wraiths have the Vampire rule, so they are immune to crumbling if your general dies and can allow nearby units to march.

VC magic is still not to be underestimated - all your characters except Wight Kings can cast, and Forbidden Lore gives you access to the rulebook lores. A lord with Master of the Black Arts and Forbidden Lore: Death can generate enough power dice on his own for your minor characters to pump out the invocations and raise dead spells you need to keep the army moving.


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## hacknslashgamer (Jan 28, 2009)

So do all undead have fear I dont have the book yet and why are zombies pointless now 
it sucks to pay 65bucks for a new book I can buy half my army for that on ebay!


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

hacknslashgamer said:


> So do all undead have fear I dont have the book yet and why are zombies pointless now
> it sucks to pay 65bucks for a new book I can buy half my army for that on ebay!


Um......if you want a cheap army vampires are not for you, they are a horde army you need ton's and tons of models to win game's and Zombies are great! A Horde of em can make people cry!


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Zombies are still just a speedbump unit, the anvil to your line, its still the vamps and the wights that do the killing

the problem with zombies is that there are more missile troops around and less magic so they die more and come back less


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Vampires are some of the very few characters that can charge a standard block of infantry alone and expect to win. The army is very appropriately named, I think, because whem you go against the counts, that's exactly who you're facing: the counts themselves. Every other unit in the army is a buffer for you to get your vampires into cc with. Add to that the fact that they're excellent casters as well and you've got the strongest non-named characters in the game (and let's not get started on the named vampires).

Pros: Absurdly strong characters, solid rare choices
Cons: Absurdly weak core choices...but like I said, they're just "extra armor" for your characters anyway


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Waning one: Corpse Carts with Necro are REALLY NASTY. Add in Vanhel's Danse and you get extremely terrifying Zombies. Double Attacks and ASF, nasty! As soon as you kill them, they ust get back up again. Mannfred is horrible, and Vlad's nasty too. Konrad is... is just... just... :shok:. So many high-strength attacks it's insane...

I don't see any cons with the army, Zombies are terrible but you can easily raise an extra 50 in two or three turns, and supporting Horde attacks plus extra combat round for Vanhel's Danse in which the enemy can't strike you back... I don't know what to kill them with. Can't get them to run away either.

Midnight


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## Cheese meister (Jun 5, 2010)

hmmm the point here is that i know a guy who used an all zombie army and trounced his opponent fancy ws10 zombies same fancy s4/5 zombies sounds gd to me


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

How did he do that? I know that Crown of Command can give you WS7 zombies, but what about the Strength and extra WS?

Midnight


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Spells of various sorts can get you WS10, I10, ASF zombies... dont know how you get the +2-3 strength, Okkam's would make them very high strength (OMG that would be bad) but cant think of anything in between.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Blood knights are only initiative 4, that creates a whole range of issues for them against some armies, high elves, skaven, chaos esp etc. So in spite of their high strength, the fact they often go at the same time or last, really effects their damage output.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

NagashKhemmler said:


> Blood knights are only initiative 4, that creates a whole range of issues for them against some armies, high elves, skaven, chaos esp etc. So in spite of their high strength, the fact they often go at the same time or last, really effects their damage output.


They're tough cavalry, are they not? I haven't played against them, but they should have at least a 2+ save, and some other good stuff for resisting damage, it's not likely that they're in that much danger.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

They have a 1+ save, are frenzied S5 with lances and have a couple of attacks basic anyway. My firend uses a unit of ~8 with 3 characters (1 a BSB) and they are almost unkillable. They have regen so have 1+/4++ equivalent, hit like a ton of bricks anyway but then have 1 vampire with blood lust who can kill half a unit by himself and a vampire lord who has that stupid sword which raises a model for each wound done... so you some of them and then he just gets them back automatically. I could beat it in 7th by abusing their frenzy, but I have no idea how I would even try to fight them in 8th (probably just hide in woods and hope for all the dangerous terrain roles to be failed).


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> They have a 1+ save, are frenzied S5 with lances and have a couple of attacks basic anyway. My firend uses a unit of ~8 with 3 characters (1 a BSB) and they are almost unkillable. They have regen so have 1+/4++ equivalent, hit like a ton of bricks anyway but then have 1 vampire with blood lust who can kill half a unit by himself and a vampire lord who has that stupid sword which raises a model for each wound done... so you some of them and then he just gets them back automatically. I could beat it in 7th by abusing their frenzy, but I have no idea how I would even try to fight them in 8th (probably just hide in woods and hope for all the dangerous terrain roles to be failed).


Damn, that is tough. If I could, I'd use Lore of Metal, or Death to snipe out the Vampire, but I can't really think of anything else that would reliably get through that. Probably would be best for me to just feed it a cheap unit, but that works better for some armies than others.


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## rodmillard (Mar 23, 2010)

Masked Jackal said:


> Damn, that is tough. If I could, I'd use Lore of Metal, or Death to snipe out the Vampire, but I can't really think of anything else that would reliably get through that. Probably would be best for me to just feed it a cheap unit, but that works better for some armies than others.


Yeah, my blood knights live (?!) in fear of the Gold College. It doesn't help that since my other armies are dwarves and HE, and we have a couple of brettonian players, Metal is a popular choice for "all comers" lists in the local metagame. (It's for this reason that I don't take armour on my VC general - just a 4+ ward). 

I don't like the blood knight deathstar any more - it may have worked in 7th, but with the new magic lores and the loss of guess range artillery it just screams "target" in 8th. Personally, I'm running 6 with a dread knight/red fury vampire attached - which still comes in at over 500 points.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Yeah, 2 cannons placed in either of you board corners would laugh at the blood knight deathstar now, especially burning dwarven cannons. However the unit gets placed it'll have at least 1 cannon sending its ball through its rank.

Lore of metal is a star, I absolutely love it... but there isnt a good reason to take it as a stand alone. I was plannig to use a Lv4 archmage/Teclis with shadow/death and a Lv1 metal mage who would roll and then almost always take searing doom instead... but I never have had much love for my HE and so they are currently in the cupboard with no expectation to get them out again.. the only other way I can get lore of metal is with a wizarding hat... stupid ogres/WE not being able to take the fun lores :cray:


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