# The Empire and technology,



## dragonkingofthestars (May 3, 2010)

Well i had a long car ride, (i'm in Seattle!) so for the trip i picked up a book i thought might look interesting, the warhammer novel "iron Company"

and christ! the average empire solider seems to be about as scared of anything with more moving parts then a stick as he is of the guys throwing magic fire balls around.

or more accurately, they look at smooth bore black powder cannons the same way we look at cyber punk dystopien technology. 

I always saw the Empire as 16th century German with magic, not this technophobic . . .thing.

the sheer amounts of hostility between the chief engineers, the war priest, and the general is staggering to me.

I don't just start this thread to vent, (though it is partly that) I want to promote a discussion on just what is the empires relation to technology and innovation because this is just boggling to me.

That if nothing else renders Iron company non-cannon to MY view of the empire. It's a decent enough novel don't get me wrong and i do recommend it (a solid 6.5/10, that's passing!), but it portrayal of the empire is just so far from what I consider it that it as a source of cannon is dead to me.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

First, canon not cannon.

Second, sounds about right to be perfectly honest. You have to keep in mind that the engineering guilds, colleges of magic, and church of Sigmar are all very, very separate entities who all closely guard their secrets and inner workings. Since only they truly understand those secrets, there is a large level of distrust from anyone not in the know (assuming your not a pilot and have no training in flight, you don't take a plane up and trust everything will be fine right?)

Most soldiers of the Empire come from small villages; their families consisting of farmers or hunters or woodsmen. What do they know of the workings of a cannon? Those soldiers who come from wealthier families, those of merchants or minor nobles, wouldn't be much better. They might be trained to use blackpowder weapons, but they'd likely never be able to build one from scratch.

The Empire definitely has its roots in 16th century German, but keep in mind that a lot of concepts are taken to more extremes (also that the Empire has lasted for more than two thousand years for the most part.)

And remember, its not unreasonable to distrust that which you do not understand. There are countless books, movies, and games where people think they know what their doing only to cause bad things to happen.


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## iamtheeviltwin (Nov 12, 2012)

Also remember that different areas of the empire have much different levels of respect/knowledge of technology. For example state troops from the city state of Nuln will have much better knowledge and respect for gunpowder than hillbillies from Stirland, who are poor and less educated than those who live in the heart of the universities.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

dragonkingofthestars said:


> or more accurately, they look at smooth bore black powder cannons the same way we look at cyber punk dystopien technology.


To be honest if you put me by a smooth bore black powder cannon and tell me to put a couple of balls downrange I'd probably do a Perry and blow my arm off and I don't think I'm in the minority with that. I can fully understand how a peasant who can barely tie his own shoes let alone read or write would be shitting themselves round one. It's like old people and modern technology; they think with the press of one button on the keyboard they can wipe the harddrive, send their bank account details to every Nigerian Scammer in the world and cripple the power grid for the surrounding 200 kms.


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## dragonkingofthestars (May 3, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> To be honest if you put me by a smooth bore black powder cannon and tell me to put a couple of balls downrange I'd probably do a Perry and blow my arm off and I don't think I'm in the minority with that. I can fully understand how a peasant who can barely tie his own shoes let alone read or write would be shitting themselves round one. It's like old people and modern technology; they think with the press of one button on the keyboard they can wipe the harddrive, send their bank account details to every Nigerian Scammer in the world and cripple the power grid for the surrounding 200 kms.


ya, but as mentioned the Empire has had 2,000 years to get used to it. it can't be compared to a computer and more like a old person being terrified of cars, despite the fact that we as a civilization has had since 1885 to get used to these four wheeled gas powered chariots.

it's more then just the fear of technology that threw me, i get how empire black power weapons have a tendency to be unstable. (hell it took us till the late 19th century to figure out how to make a cannon that we confident would not risk blowing up) but it's the anmoistiy.

The preist hated the cannons and talked about them like he was dealing with a boarder line hertical thing, and the general did not even trust his cannons.

I feel that bears repeating. 

the general, the guy in charge of defeating a rebel by bashing down a fortress, the guy who was in command, did not trust his own cannons, NOT because they were old, not because they were in a state of dis-repair but because they were cannons. Never-mind that the empire had been using guns for. . . i don't know, hundreds of years? maybe thousands? and the dwarfs much longer then that!

there are quotes at the start of each chapter, and one really hit me, the book still in the car so i can't quote it verbatim so this won't be exact.

It's a excerpt of a speech, and the preist says that the learned man is the problem, that ever time you teach a child to read, to learn, you sow the seeds of the empire's destruction.

this is the thing that gets me, this sheer. . . revulsion for anything more complicated then a cross bow, and frankly a cannon is incredibly simple, just a big iron tube you fill with gun powder and a ball.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I was under the impression that black powder was a fairly recent addition to the Empires arsenal, Sigmar didn't use it if I recall (my Empire fluff knowledge is a little rusty).

It comes to accessibility to the technology. Just because technology exists does not mean it is available to everybody freely, most peasants won't have even seen a black powder weapon before. Combine that with the Engineers Guild wanting to safeguard their position and making out things as being more scary than they are and you get the type of situation you describe.

As for the animosity. You do realise that there are a great many groups of people in the world today who view education as a very dangerous thing both in the West and elsewhere. Knowledge is power after all. If you are educated and have the ability to think for your self then you are more likely to ask questions, you are more likely to question the status quo. Religion as a general rules tends to not like it when you start asking questions, established heirachys such as the Feudalism that is present in the Empire doesn't like it when you start asking questions. 

The anonmosity between the various factions of the Empire is due to the threat to the balance of power. Each one wants to be the ultimate authority in the Empire, the more power they have the better it is for them. Medicine used to be considered the work of the Devil by the Church because they didn't understand it and therefore couldn't control it. The Priest views cannons as almost heretical because they aren't part of the church and are an internal threat to the Churches power. The General doesn't trust the cannons because he doesn't understand them because he's probably not educated about them. He's not educated about them because if he was then he wouldn't need the Engineers Guild. What he does know is their reputation, a reputation built up the Engineers Guild. They are securing their position.

A cannon is incredibly simple to those who know what they are doing. I wouldn't have a clue about how much gun powder to use, what the elevation should be etc


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