# Weekly WTF? Q&A - Non-members welcome.



## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

We all have those moments when we're staring at the tabletop and our models thinking WFT?:shok: Sometimes, these are just blonde moments on our part, and sometimes they just happen to be physical representations of the loopholes within the game mechanic. Other times, these WFT? moments may be something more sinister brought about by your opponent overzealous desire to win, or by the unwanted and unnecessary attention grabbing from the peanut gallery.:ireful2:

Guys, this is the place to aire these WTF? Moments, so that you can get them off your chest, get issues resolved, and get closure on such frustrating incidents. Best do it now, before someone gets a sledgehammer to the face.:crazy:


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Hello all. My name is Heretical Hespithe the Horrid, and I've suffered a WFT? Moment! :cries:

I just don't understand how someone could say that it is fair to make wheel maneuvers during a charge so that they can take out a character who is behind a ranked unit that they would clip had they moved in a straight line toward my character. There was Line of Sight, but there was no possible way for the unit to Wheel-Move-Align without clipping the block unit. Still, my protestations were vetoed and my character was killed. This is in a tourney game a bit back in history, and it still rankles my tail feathers. I conceded the game at that point (turn 3) as i simply refused to play with a cheater.

Was I wrong? Was it a blonde moment on my part? Or, like I figure, was my opponent a cheating SOB?


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

i belive they were a cheating SOB. you can't wheel when charging you charge in a straight line. 


I have suffered many WTF moments the worst of all was when a guy said WS 3 attacking WS 6 hits on 5+'s but its not, its 4+!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even showing him the rule book hes said it was wrong.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

LOL... Now that's going a bit too far when critisizing the GW Dev team, lol... You even wrote all your rule books wrong!


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

my most recent wtf moment was with my gorger the unit he'd charged fled meaning he could only move towards an isolated wizard as he has to be closer to the enemy when moving only for the wizard to step out of line of sight but stay 1" from the gorger and repeated this for 4 turns otherwise ignoring him completely "stupid rules" if someone stands just to the side of me i'd know they were there why not the bloodthirsty gorger. but that is just one of many wtf moments.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

oh I should have added he now has the nerve to say it never happened!!!! the shop was full of people who herd the comotion.


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

> LOL... Now that's going a bit too far when critisizing the GW Dev team, lol... You even wrote all your rule books wrong!


TBH, WS 3 vs WS 6? I think we'd all agree it should be 5's.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Agree has nothing to do with the truth of the matter. I like the large margin in the WS chart.


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Lord Sinkoran said:


> i belive they were a cheating SOB. you can't wheel when charging you charge in a straight line.


Erm this is simply wrong. Of course you can wheel during a charge! I'll come back to this when I find the page it's on.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

I know you can wheel at the start, and you get a 'free' alignment when you make contact, but can you really wheel 'during' the charge move itself?


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Hespithe said:


> I know you can wheel at the start, and you get a 'free' alignment when you make contact, but can you really wheel 'during' the charge move itself?


I believe that this is the case. I have consulted several people and they agree.
I've had a look at the rulebook and the relevant sentence is at the top of the second column of page 21.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Cool... ya got me there, and you're right... sad though it is...

Still does not change the issue, as the unit charging was a chariot, and chariots do not wheel, thus has to move in a straight path. The wheel during any point thing is surprising.... I really need to read the latest edition more thuroughly...


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

Hespithe said:


> Cool... ya got me there, and you're right... sad though it is...
> 
> Still does not change the issue, as the unit charging was a chariot, and chariots do not wheel, thus has to move in a straight path. The wheel during any point thing is surprising.... I really need to read the latest edition more thuroughly...


Second paragraph of the second column of page 62. Chariots can only pivot once. It's essentially the same as the previous rule but with pivot instead of wheel.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

You just have to remember that, you must end up in contact with the enemy on the same side from where you declared the charge. So if you were in the units front arc, no wheeling around to somehow get a side arc charge. 

Hespithe, I still don't see how the chariot had LOS to your character but would have clipped your unit had it gone in a straight line. Unless it was only a very small bit of the character could be seen and because of the larger chariot base side it would have clipped the unit.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

That was just it....

A chariot is about 12" out and to the front of a unit of Clanrats.... My Grey Seer is just behind this unit, but can still be seen by the chariot (by about 2mm, that's it). The Chariot declares a charge against the Grey Seer, even though there is really no possible way that it can hit him without hitting the Clanrat unit first. He demands that he is completely right and can do so, even though it would mean that his chariot would have to pivot during the move. While I now understand that his is possible, he'd still have to hit the Character from the initial arc, but would be forced to hit the Clanrat unit first in order to do so....

So, even though he had LOS, and was in range, the Clanrat unit was in the way. I placed the Grey Seer their purposefully knowing that the Clanrat unit would prevent charges. Still, it is of no matter. I no longer have the army, and no longer play that opponent.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

just finished a game against wood elves with my empire i only took one wizard just for the dispels decided to take lore of life as thats how hes painted and got the spell master of the wood wasnt expecting to get much magic off as usual but total powered it 4 times in 1 game there is nothing more funny than watching girly elves hiding in woods only to get ripped up by their own trees he even bought the trees closer to me so i'd be in range 1 crappy wizard worth 115 pts killed 6 waywatchers and 5 glade riders (1 in combat after he'd zapped the unit)and took 2 wounds off the spellsinger that finally killed him that was definately a wtf moment


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

That was just awesome... the model and the moment collided to great effect!


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

swntzu said:


> I believe that this is the case. I have consulted several people and they agree.
> I've had a look at the rulebook and the relevant sentence is at the top of the second column of page 21.


wtf wheeling when you charge...that doesn't make sense atall I mean WTF


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Well, LS... Swn did back it up with the correct page number and all. He's right, thought it must be an often overlooked bit of text, lol.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

just played against the vampire counts today with my new ogre list. managed to kill a vampire and necromancer with hellheart, but for a real wtf moment i'd just accidently lured his blood knights in front of 3 units of 3 lead belchers however rolling the dice lady luck decided to even things out at the end of my shooting there were 3 lead belchers left standing another 2 running away and a confused looking castellan wondering where his immortal mates had gone.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

opponent trying to claim a wall[gw fence] blocked los for my hammerhead. WTF!!!!!!!
then he bemoans the fact he didn't realise and therefore wouldn't have moved his unit behind it, so even though he couldn't have moved the squad anywhere where it would have stopped me shooting any way, i offer to move my hammerhead somewhere else and shoot another unit. Then he gets upperty because I'm cheating, by offering, not actually doing just offering, to move my hammerhead somewhere else, and even dispite the fact that its still my movement phase and the hammerhead is what ive just moved. WTF!!

i know this is a 40k wtf but he's an annoying twat so i thought i'd mention it.

As for fantasy guylooking in his ogre book and claiming ogre bulls have a 3+ save, even after i point out that i have an ogre army.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Some people will take any advantage, real or imagined, they can get. Just give them the game, and start another with a more reasonable opponent.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

There was a guy a while back who insisted a Flame Cannon could hit units not covered by the template, because he caused more wounds then goblins.

-Dirge


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## maxtangent (Jan 31, 2008)

I used to play against a guy who rolled the dice behind scenery - I couldn't see the results. I doubt he was cheating, but seriously, WTF?


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

dont you hate people who roll a cocked dice, and if its in there favour, but as soon as its against them they try to re-roll it.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

I had some guy try to complain the dice was cocked because it landed on an slope of a hill. The dice was flat and the angle of the slope was probably 10 degrees....yeah that didn't fly.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

I ask my opponent if I should reroll the dice... letting them make the decision. Usually its no problem either way. Again, taking advantage of these situations makes for a very poor gamer.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

Most of the time, its usually pretty clear and we both agree it should be rerolled or not, however if we don't, we usually use the dice test, place a same size dice on top of the cocked dice, if it slides off or causes the original dice to tip reroll it.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I count the cocked dice if their is any daylight between the bottom face of the dice and the surface of the bored, or enluess it's dropped between an upright and a steep slope. Usually the GM will decide on a re-roll though.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

I was playing some little kid who was faerly new to the game. A semi-veteran came over to watch the game and started just taking over the kids army he even had the nerve to snatch the tape measure off the kid and move a unit where he thought it should go. I went mental and said "oi, give him the tape measure and go away" well words to that effect maybe a little more offensive. ..ok a lot more offensive. he then repied with "yeh what you going to do about it!". I gave my usual reply when someone says that "do you really want to know?" He then promptly walked out teh shop.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

LOL.... I've been on both ends of that. I opened my mouth, out of line, and was promptly asked to shut it. Embarrased the crap outta me. This was as a newer gamer, and I make a point to not offer advice unless it is requested. I'm a bit nicer to the newer gamers who make the same mistake, but the vets already know better. These guys take the cake.


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## swntzu (Dec 25, 2007)

There's a difference between offering advice and commenting (which all of us do from time to time) during a game and actively interfering.

I've not seen that many bad things in my time but I'm sure that will change when I start playing more games.


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## maxtangent (Jan 31, 2008)

Ah, the good 'ole kibitzing issue. Have you heard the joke that you should keep a deck of playing cards on you just in case you become lost?
That way, you can start a game of solitaire and someone is bound to show up and say, "red 9 on black 10."

A popular game in my group is Titan. One guy used to help everyone else in the battles against me, but I never helped anyone in their battles with him. Talk about an unfair advantage.


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## demon of greed (Jan 20, 2008)

my most recent WTF moment was only 2 days ago lol we couldnt work out how to do a combat resolution because it was a massive fight with a goblin shaman attacking from the rear on a pack of giant rats who flanked a unit of night goblin spearmen who were engaged at the fron to a unit of clan rats whom were flanked (on oposite side to pack of rats) by goblin boss who had been charged in the rear by a unit of clan rats. we wasnt sure if we should split the fight in to 3 fights or just do the resolution as it was.
we ended up just rolling to do it (even= split it up) (odds= one big one) we kept it as on big one i wont n gobbos ran away, but at end of the battle we tried to figure out what went wrong but still couldnt work it out, might actualy post a thread on it see if any one can help.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Yup, those big massive melees are a pain, but the book does give pretty clear instructions on just how to proceed. Glad to see you guys could easily work it out with a simple dice roll. Makes for a fun game no matter the outcome.


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## Master Andael (Jan 18, 2008)

One of my WTF moments was when one unit of 20 Night Goblins defeated chaos knights overran into my sauruswarriors beaten them to and go through a large piece of the opposing army. I mean WTF Night Goblins shouldn't do something like that.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Ha... I had a unit of Skaven Slaves do that to a unit of Chaos Knights... funny funny.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

i had something like that happen to my chaos warriors the night gobbo archers had killed my mutant monstrosity and went 2 rounds with my warriors before fleeing i didn't pursue as there was a risk of leaving the board only for them to rally and shoot 4 more warriors


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