# Orks vs Necrons



## Woodzee316

hey guys, 

just wondering if any one has got some ideas on how to stop a necron army with orks with out speciffically tooling up for them that is if you can. my greatest hope was relying on my SAG to stop the monolith but that is a little to unreliable. i can deal with warriors easy enough, destroyers give me grief because they can move and fire so require a little tactics, but with the monolith no good any ideas would be happily recieved and put to good use.

cheers


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## MidnightSun

Just kill the Warriors, if you can kill them easily you're sorted.

And by the way, when you say that Destroyers require 'a little tactics', do you not use tactics against anything else?

Midnight


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## darklove

MidnightSun said:


> Just kill the Warriors, if you can kill them easily you're sorted.


WTF? Seriously?

Every played against a Necron player who knows their own army?

This is pointless advice.

Sensible advice would be:

1. Make sure you have something S10 that can hurt a Monolith. PK on a Nob, or on a Warboss? Monoliths move slowly so you either hit on a 4+ or automatically.
2. Horde Ork lists are the hardest for Necron players to deal with because Necrons can't get enough shots off to kill them.
3. Play the mission. If it is an objective game, make sure that you go for objectives. If it is a kill point game, make sure you kill off whole units at a time. Remember that Necrons are pretty much the most mobile army there is; Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers can turbo in late game to contest objectives and block a win.


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## skelley

as a necron Player I say the thing that gets to me the most when playing Orks is the CC I mean CC against orks is brutal especialy if they got Slugga Boys when twent ork boys can throw out eighty attacks in a single round of CC a necron unit dosnt stand a chance. As for the monolith I would say a warboss with a PK on get the job done and if you have a bikker group with some nobs that monolith dosnt stand a chance in hell hope i helpped.


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## MidnightSun

darklove said:


> WTF? Seriously?
> 
> Every played against a Necron player who knows their own army? Do you aim at all the fire magnets?
> 
> This is pointless advice.
> 
> Sensible advice would be:
> 
> 1. Make sure you have something S10 that can hurt a Monolith. PK on a Nob, or on a Warboss? Monoliths move slowly so you either hit on a 4+ or automatically. By the time the Necron player is in close combat, it doesn't really matter what happens. He's dead.
> 2. Horde Ork lists are the hardest for Necron players to deal with because Necrons can't get enough shots off to kill them. Monoliths with large blasts and bolter shots, rapid-firing Warriors, Immortals with their Gauss Blasters, Destroyers. All of these things can put out plenty of shots.
> 3. Play the mission. If it is an objective game, make sure that you go for objectives Nah, thought I'd just sit on the baseline and make pew pew noises.. If it is a kill point game, make sure you kill off whole units at a time. Remember that Necrons are pretty much the most mobile army there is Dark Eldar are mighty slow, don't ya think? I mean, it's not like they have transports to move them around more than 6" a turn.; Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers can turbo in late game to contest objectives and block a win. You aim for the Necrons first - Destroyers are one of those threats. They have a longer range and more powerful gun than the other things in the Necron army - thusly they are the exception to the shooting-at-the-Warriors rule. Get rid of the threats, then move on to the grunts to force a phase out.


Stay in combat to avoid fire. However, the Necrons will try and stop you doing this so you need survivability in numbers or fast units (Warboss and Nobz on bikes, Battlewagons etc.)

If you are desperate to kill the 'Lith (Something I would not advise unless you're playing at higher points levels), use a Deffrolla. It's fast, survivable (For Orks), and is likely to do some damage.

Midnight


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## darklove

Lol, now you are just being silly. Thought we were talking about Orks vs Necrons, and suddenly DE appear in the conversation. Regarding Necron mobility: if the Necron player included a Monolith in their list then Warriors, Flayed Ones and Immortals can move up to 32" in a single turn; and Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers and Wraiths can move 44" in a single turn. Mention DE as much as you like, but it isn't relevant here.

5th ed. Necron tactics rely on keeping 'Necron' models off the table if they are slow, or very mobile if they are fast. Getting to CC with something 'Necron' is unlikely until the end game, by which time Necrons will usually have done enough damage for it to be largely irrelevant.

As a Necron player I know that I only want the enemy to shoot at the Monolith or C'tan, so that is all I allow them to shoot. My Phase Out is pretty safe until about turn 4, by which time Orks are usually all dead. It is almost impossible to lock Necrons in CC, every unit can either be teleported out of CC, choose to leave CC of its own will, or force enemy units to leave CC. Don't count on locking to survive.


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## Dawnstar

Honestly, the best way I've heard of Orks to destroy a Monolith is either Meganobs/Ghaz in a Battlewaggon or lots of Deffrollers. Anything S10 will do the trick nicely


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## darklove

Exactly. You can't ignore something like a Monolith, you have to have an answer for it. They tend to form the key function in Necron battle plans, so taking them out early is important. If you can't do it by the start of turn 3 then don't bother at all though, by then it will have already done most of its useful things.

S10 is your friend when playing against Necrons.


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## MidnightSun

darklove said:


> Lol, now you are just being silly. Thought we were talking about Orks vs Necrons, and suddenly DE appear in the conversation I was simply stating that DE are faster than Necrons.. Regarding Necron mobility: if the Necron player included a Monolith in their list then Warriors, Flayed Ones and Immortals can move up to 32" in a single turn One unit can do this per turn, and now they're all beautifully bunched up for a Shokk Attack Gun shot.; and Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers and Wraiths can move 44" But Wraiths can't do anything if they move that far - just die as they get assaulted. Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers should only be getting two or three turns of movment - they are PRIORITY targets (Along with Warriors, of course). in a single turn. Mention DE as much as you like, but it isn't relevant here. DE can move all of their units 24" per turn. They can do this every turn until their transports are brought down. They can make this move in any direction they want. They are not all bunched up at the end of this movement.
> 
> 5th ed. Necron tactics rely on keeping 'Necron' models off the table if they are slow And then you're playing like Daemons - fighting a full army with half of one., or very mobile if they are fast. Getting to CC with something 'Necron' is unlikely until the end game BA Jumpers? Battlewagon Orks? Flying Princes? Daemons? For the Necron army to do maximum damage, you need to be within 24". Preferably 12" for Rapid Fire. If you fail to fulfil your damage quota, then you get charged. Then you will die., by which time Necrons will usually have done enough damage for it to be largely irrelevant. But they will have sustained equal if not more damage in return. Other armies can shoot too.
> 
> As a Necron player I know that I only want the enemy to shoot at the Monolith or C'tan, so that is all I allow them to shoot. My Phase Out is pretty safe until about turn 4, by which time Orks are usually all dead You play Necrons and table Orks by turn 4? Damn.. It is almost impossible to lock Necrons in CC, every unit can either be teleported out of CC By another unit, choose to leave CC of its own will One very expensive and non-Necron unit that moves 6" a turn can do this., or force enemy units to leave CC Which one is this? Pariahs and Lord with Nightmare Shroud? Please. Or Flayed Ones? Scary stuff, with 2 S4 attacks in close combat, which have no cool bonuses at all. No Power Weapons, no Rending. Nothing. Wraiths? Die to bolters. Tomb Spyder? WS 2? 2 Wounds and no invulnerable? Pass. The Nightbringer? Moves 6" a turn. Why would you want to get this guy OUT of combat anyway?. Don't count on locking to survive. No, count on killing, because that's what close combat was made for. 'Locking' is done on scary units, like C'Tan, and done with cheap units, like Guardsmen.





darklove said:


> Exactly. You can't ignore something like a Monolith I can., you have to have an answer for it. They tend to form the key function in Necron battle plans, so taking them out early is important. If you can't do it by the start of turn 3 then don't bother at all though, by then it will have already done most of its useful things. What, moved the army forwards by 18"? Or teleported the units that are in combat out of danger? Oh, wait, your Necrons don't get into combat until 'the end game'. So just why are you bringing the Monolith? One not-quite-a-Demolisher-Cannon shot per turn? Or as a big fire magnet that moves 6" a turn and goes bang when I kill your other stuff?
> 
> S10 is your friend when playing against Necrons It's good against everyone..


10 Letters.

Midnight


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## darklove

Most of your green text doesn't mean anything, it doesn't seem to refer to any of the text I wrote that you copied because you have the rules and codex details wrong, and you keep shifting the context.

Perhaps you could re-post, but in full sentences, with some coherent thought? For example: 'bunched up'?; What can do anything after moving flat out?; What is the problem about teleporting exactly, Monoliths and Lords can do it = 5 teleports per turn? etc., etc. Take a breath before you post.

Anyway, lots of bunk that could be cleared up by you reading the codex before you post.

Lets talk tactics, and you shouldn't making up stuff that isn't true about the Necron codex and what is/isn't in it.

When I play against Orks I use Monoliths because I get 3d6 shots at every unit: Orks tend to swarm, which means they need to bunch up to fit onto a gaming table.


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## MidnightSun

darklove said:


> Most of your green text doesn't mean anything, it doesn't seem to refer to any of the text I wrote that you copied because you have the rules and codex details wrong, and you keep shifting the context. I'm using the green to add to your sentences in that particular instance.
> 
> Perhaps you could re-post, but in full sentences, with some coherent thought? For example: 'bunched up' Indeed - you have to fit your ten + Necron Warriors/Immortals within 2" of that little door on the front of the Monolith. Veil of Darkness makes all of your models touch each other's bases - no spreading out to avoid blasts for them?; What can do anything after moving flat out Nothing can do anything after moving flat out - Wraiths are just like other units in that they sit at the end of their big long move and do nothing.?; What is the problem about teleporting exactly, Monoliths and Lords can do it = 5 teleports per turn? You take three Liths and two Lord with Veils? etc., etc. Take a breath before you post.
> 
> Anyway, lots of bunk that could be cleared up by you reading the codex before you post.
> 
> Lets talk tactics, and you shouldn't making up stuff that isn't true about the Necron codex and what is/isn't in it. Wait a minute - Necron Lords, Flayed Ones, Pariahs, Immortals, Nightmare Shrouds, Veils of Darkness, Necron Warriors, Destroyers, Wraiths, Tomb Spyders, Monoliths, the Deceiver, and the Nightbringer (All the units I've mentioned) aren't Necron units? So what Codex are they from?
> 
> When I play against Orks I use Monoliths because I get 3d6 shots at every unit: Orks tend to swarm with multiple AV 14, Obscured vehicles. Yep, loving them swarms of Orks., which means they need to bunch up to fit onto a gaming table. Not that many people play Green Tide, mainly because by now they've realised that armour=/=good, and horde Orks have no armour=/=are not good. Hybrid and Mech Orks are.


My advice to the OP? Play Mech or Hybrid (Most or all of your units in Battlewagons or Trukks. Use Buggies, Koptas and Deff Rollas for anti-tank). Necrons don't sweat Green Tides. They have the firepower to blast them to bits. They are scared of fast things, that will kill them in close combat, or that are practically immune to the most commonly-used Necron weapons - Flayers and Cannons. Necrons don't get Melta, at all, and the best Anti-Tank they have is the Warscythe. This is realistically available on two infantry models in the enemy army (Who don't really want to be in combat - they need to be supporting the Warriors. Get rid of Lords, or more specifically the Resurrection Orbs, and the Warriors die. The Warriors die, you win the game either through objectives or Phase Out.).

So, with the Warscythe being a somewhat sub-par anti-tank weapon, we go to Heavy Destroyers. Wow, Lascannons. 3s to hit (So 2 hits on a squad of 3), 6s to penetrate your Battlewagons. 5s to destroy. So, if the Necron Player is _very_ lucky, and hasn't got a Monolith or any Tomb Spyders, then you might lose 2 Battlewagons a turn. But then you can just SAG the Heavy Destroyers, and then the basic Destroyers, and then the Warriors can't do anything. Unlike Space Marines, Necrons rely on each other - for WBB, for fire support, for anti tank etc.

Quoted from 3++ is the new black -
*Monolith*: The most overrated unit of all time. Ever. Monoliths are a pain to kill, sure, but who bothers to try? Since the Mono isn't a Necron, going for Phase Out gets easier and for all its vaunted resilience, it goes poof like everything else. It doesn't even do that much damage. Flux Arcs? Immortals and Destroyers do it better. Particle Whip? No teleporting for you and it scatters, plus S9 isn't the best vehicle popper out there. Re-rolling WBB is useful, but another unit of Destroyers would be better for raising your Phase Out count. Avoid.

This sums up my view of Monoliths.

Knock out the Warriors and the support goes away. Knock out the support and the Warriors can't do anything. There's a reason they gave Tactical Marines special and heavy weapons - Bolters do not win battles.

Midnight


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## fishywinkles

Pretty much agree with most of MidnightSun's points, though a couple of things I disagree with are below.



MidnightSun said:


> So, with the Warscythe being a somewhat sub-par anti-tank weapon, we go to Heavy Destroyers. Wow, Lascannons. 3s to hit (So 2 hits on a squad of 3), 6s to penetrate your Battlewagons. 5s to destroy. So, if the Necron Player is _very_ lucky, and hasn't got a Monolith or any Tomb Spyders, then you might lose 2 Battlewagons a turn.


Due to jetbike move and the ludicrous dimensions of the battlewagon, side armor shots are stupidly easy to get. S9 vs AV12 is a much better prospect and open-topped just makes it better (though if you take an 'ard case there is no more open-topped which also limits the battlewagon as an assault platform, allowing the faster elements of a necron army to get away if tou don't properly plan your assaults.



MidnightSun said:


> But then you can just SAG the Heavy Destroyers, and then the basic Destroyers, and then the Warriors can't do anything.


SAG is unreliable at best and a waste at worst. Yes AP2 is annoying and odds say the strength will be decent, but it is a blast at BS2 which means if you roll about a 5 or more for your scatter odds are you will miss the destroyers.


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## MidnightSun

Battlewagons will usually be obscured by a KFF, making half of the Destroyer shots just bounce off. Besides, which Ork player doesn't protect the flanks of his Battlewagons (With ablative Trukks or other Battlewagons)?

Use Deffkoptas that you usually use for anti-tank to deal with Heavy Destroyers. 15 Deffkoptas (Your Fast Attack) will beat 9 Heavy Destroyers (His Heavy Support). No problem.

Midnight


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## Ravner298

> Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers can turbo in late game to contest objectives and block a win.


Correct me if im wrong but I thought only troops can contest objectives?

Also correct me if im wrong, but the units listed are FA/HS slots.


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## darklove

Ravner298 said:


> Correct me if im wrong but I thought only troops can contest objectives?
> 
> Also correct me if im wrong, but the units listed are FA/HS slots.


I shall indeed correct you.

Anything can *CONTEST* an objective. Only Troops can *HOLD* objectives. Therefore it makes perfect sense to turbo boost a non-Troops unit onto an objective that an enemy is trying to hold and thereby contest it.

Destroyers are Fast Attack; Heavy Destroyers are Heavy Support.


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## Ravner298

Man. I've got to re-read my 5th ed book. Ive got 4th all mixed in there.


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## fishywinkles

MidnightSun said:


> Battlewagons will usually be obscured by a KFF, making half of the Destroyer shots just bounce off. Besides, which Ork player doesn't protect the flanks of his Battlewagons (With ablative Trukks or other Battlewagons)?


Yeah, it is always best to assume the orks are packing a KFF. I was just pointing out that it is easy to get side shots on a battlewagon (your original post seemed to imply that they would mostly be hitting front armor), parking trucks on the sides doesn't completely block LOS and if it is with other wagons then I would shoot them instead.



MidnightSun said:


> Use Deffkoptas that you usually use for anti-tank to deal with Heavy Destroyers. 15 Deffkoptas (Your Fast Attack) will beat 9 Heavy Destroyers (His Heavy Support). No problem.


15 deffkoptas are a pain in the ass, coupled with a KFF they can be quite hard to shift. First couple of turns the necrons should be aiming to take these down, using regular destroyers as well. The deceiver's abilities can be quite useful as well due to the deffkoptas lackluster leadership.


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## The Sullen One

Best way to take out Necrons with Orks. Take one or two bosses and as many boyz as you can, all the way upto 180 depending on the size of the game. Seriously why do anything else?

Taking wagons simply means less boyz and given that Orks and Necrons have the same general initiative, you want as many boyz as possible because if you charge a Necron unit, all your boyz who make the charge will be able to attack.


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## Mindlessness

Your 180 boys will be devistated by Necron fire. No doubt.

3d6 from the lith at all of them. 3 shots from each destroyer, not to mention warriors within 12 inches.

Assuming you roll even, thats 12 lith shots, 13 destroyer shots, and say 40 warriors? All within 12' thats over 50 shots. Thats two 30 man ork squads toast. AT AVERAGE ROLLS.


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## The Sullen One

Mindlessness said:


> Your 180 boys will be devistated by Necron fire. No doubt.
> 
> 3d6 from the lith at all of them. 3 shots from each destroyer, not to mention warriors within 12 inches.
> 
> Assuming you roll even, thats 12 lith shots, 13 destroyer shots, and say 40 warriors? All within 12' thats over 50 shots. Thats two 30 man ork squads toast. AT AVERAGE ROLLS.


So? You've killed thirty Orks, well done. I'd have another 120 to send in. Having played a lot of games with horde Orks, I'm used to the pretty horrific casaulties they take, but as long as you've got sixty boyz left over it'll work out. Besides at 15'' the Necrons would be within Waaagh! range.


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## Mindlessness

60 orks*

Two squads. Even then, lith can remove them from combat. Rinse and repeat. 
Mek orks can get there quicker and have more boyz to rips necrons apart.


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## MidnightSun

Mindlessness said:


> Mek orks can get there quicker and have more boyz to rips necrons apart.


Albeit with fewer Boyz than a Green Tide list - If two out of five Battlewagons are destroyed (A reasonable expectation) then you hit with 60 Boyz. That's why Hybrid works well. Don't take 5 Battlewagons or 180 Boyz - take 2 or 3 Battlewagons and 90 Boyz.

Kan Wall works agaisnt Necrons. Obscured Squadrons don't care about Glances too much (Effectively ignoring a one, two, three or four on the damage chart? And a 50% chance of ignoring all hits completely? Why thank you, Kustom Force Field and Squadron status), and Grotzookas punish Necrons who use the Lith teleport (Six medium-strength blasts on a bunched-up unit. Nasty). And if the Kans die, who cares? You have Boyz and Deff Dreads behind them, and they're the real killing power in the list.

Midnight


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