# New price of White Dwarf



## chaplin_magnus (Oct 1, 2007)

am i the only one who thinks this is highway robbery. 8.00 is bullshit :ireful2:what do you think!! does GW reallise they are pricing them selves out of exenstance. i am shocked:shok:at this raping of their bread and butter.


Translation
The current price of GW's White Dwarf is $8. They're pricing themselves out of existance and I'm shocked they're raping Bread and Butter. Am I the only one that thinks this is highway robbery? - Jez


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I have been collecting WD since 2nd ed and I dunno if I can afford to do it any more. $8.00 is a bit over the top for something that seriously has turned into an advertising. I find more useful information here and a few other websites then Ihave in the last year in WD, since they removed chapter approved I really have had no real reason to buy them.


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## Fluff'Ead (Aug 22, 2007)

Meh, White Dwarf being rubbish is old news.

Do your wallet a favor and give Firebase and Astro Mag a try.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

8.00 what?, 8.00 US dollars, Canadian dollars, aussie, yen, Deutschmarks, pounds, what???


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## CommanderAnthor (Sep 28, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> 8.00 what?, 8.00 US dollars, Canadian dollars, aussie, yen, Deutschmarks, pounds, what???


American I beleive seeing as djinn commented on it being 8 dollars and he's from the states.

So 4 pounds, 10 canadian etc..

I'm guessing here.


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## officer kerky (Jun 12, 2008)

well if its $8.00 aussie dollars thats a steel. because its $12.50 over here. now it is probably $8.00 american dollars not 8pounds.

i find it quite useless now. no chapter aproved. barely and conversions. its just loo at my army and stupid games they play with stupid stratigies


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Wow, so not only is there less useful stuff in WD now, they're charging you *more* for the ability to skim through faked batreps and sneak peeks that have already been leaked to the internet.

Nice.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I still buy it because they do put gaming material in there. However, eight bucks is lame. I might see if I can squeeze the store for a free copy because I do painting demos regularly...


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## rokassan (Jan 24, 2007)

Im done with it. I find myself paging through it quickly and then putting it down. $8 is a rip off. Its all advertisements...its like Victoria's secret or macy's charging you to send a catalog to your house. Its as if they are trying to run their company into the ground.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Actually as of WD347 (the Warrior of Chaos one out now) the price of White Dwarf has risen another 50p to £4.50...I remember the days when it was £3.00


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## officer kerky (Jun 12, 2008)

i remember the day in australia when it costed $9 and it was chock a block full of useful stuff. chapter approved, conversions, cool stories etc.

now its half devoted to lord of the rings and almost no one collects that now. USELESS


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## CommanderAnthor (Sep 28, 2008)

New motto:

Paper has gone up it's the new gold.


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## Gannon (Mar 13, 2008)

Yep I let my subscription run out 3 years ago and haven't looked back since. I get more info off the net than I could ever find in the worthless PoS that WD is. I thought they were doing a turn around with the WD's and were actually putting high quality stuff in it, and was considering a re-subscription, but not any more. Sorry gw I'll put that $80 (usd) towards terrain/models before anything else.


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## bon_jovi (Nov 16, 2008)

Yeah £4.50 is a bit steep, I mean i know most magazines i buy are in the region of £3.50 to £4 now (motorbike mags and Nintendo) but you get a shedload more articles in both and the Nintendo mag even comes with a free gift every month! The other guys are right in saying its pretty much just a point of sale now. Even the "tale of 4 gamers" series is more, "buy this for your army" than "use this like this" ect In itself that wouldn't be SO bad if it wasn't for the fact that most people can't actually afford all the "cool new stuff out this month" To be fair this is coming from a self confessed "fanboy" Who would buy Chapter specific toilet paper if they sold it, let alone a magazine with lots of pretty pictures!

How was that for my first internet forum rant?
It is 5:30 in the morning which probably doesn't help lol.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I really don't see the big deal. it's around €7 euro here. It always has been. That's a damn sight more than £4.50. Every other magazine is around the same price or higher. All the gaming ones, digital art ones, PC modifying ones are around €8-€10.... It'sstil worth it IMO.... Just for the shiny pictures


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> Actually as of WD347 (the Warrior of Chaos one out now) the price of White Dwarf has risen another 50p to £4.50...I remember the days when it was £3.00



blimey i remember when it cost £1.50 and had loads of useful info in it for almost any game that was out I.E D&D, runequest and loads more
the last copy i brought must have been about 8 years ago......lol
damm it showning my age now......lol


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## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Never really been a fan of WD. Have picked up a copy when I've seen relevant information to the armies I'm interested in but otherwise I'm not interested. It's hard for a magazine to beat the immediacy, frequency and variety of information the internet provides; it has to win on quality and it has to be value for money.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

fynn said:


> blimey i remember when it cost £1.50 and had loads of useful info in it for almost any game that was out I.E D&D, runequest and loads more
> the last copy i brought must have been about 8 years ago......lol
> damm it showning my age now......lol


I remember when it was 75p (1984)... the first time I cancelled my subscription because it had gone downhill was 1988.

Like a mug however, I came back.

It has gone downhill _again_ though, I date the current slide to around 311 (UK series), when the last Tau codex came out (about 3 years ago?). I thought before that there was an OK amount of hobby and gaming content in it. Now, there are occasionally good features, but it's every couple of months (I have one of those stupidly long 30th anniversary subscription deals that means I will continue getting it for ages yet).

:masochistic cyclops:


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

It does seem like they are shooting themselves in the foot. They start to include more ads and less hobby so fewer people buy it. Their margin gets tight so they put in yet more ads and less hobby to claw back some money, so fewer people buy it. Their margin gets even smaller so they up the price whilst continuing with lots of ads and not much hobby and what a surprise less people buy it.

What a bunch of chimps!


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## EndangeredHuman (Feb 20, 2008)

Ding dong the witch is dead.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I think it is just natural that people moan about the price when it goes up - but I also think that most people will just keep buying it anyway. GW can charge what it likes for things because there is no direct competition in the market. If you want something then you have to buy it from them at their price.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

there's a difference between moaning about a box of marines going up in price and an issue of white dwarf going up.

End of the day, you NEED those marines, you can't play without them.

However, you don't need an issue of white dwarf...and the quality/reasons for buying WD have gone down.

So while you'll always buy the marines no matter how much you grumble about it...raising the price on a crappy magazine with absolutely no gaming value and only a tenuous hold on the community is pretty much stupid.

"Shit, nobody's buying it, what do we do?!"
"Uh...write better articles? Stop faking batreps? Print FAQs in the magazine? Bring back Chapter Approved?"
"Nawww, fuck that..let's just charge more to make up for the loss."
"But...if nobody's buying it now, won't raising the price just drive more people away?"
"Well then, when that happens we'll just have to up the price again."
<2 years later>
"Sir, the magazine is down to four pages of shiny pictures, half a faked batrep and a comprehensive listing of local GW stores...and we only have one subscriber. He's paying about $1,200 an issue and he just wrote in to complain about the lack of content."
"Bump it up to fourteen-hundred and give him a free plastic grot in the next issue."


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

WD are £4:50 now??, why the hell complain about $8 then, your getting it cheaper than us.

guess I'll be saving £4.50 this month


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> WD are £4:50 now??, why the hell complain about $8 then, your getting it cheaper than us.
> 
> guess I'll be saving £4.50 this month



The price is relative to where you are! 8 bucks is alot of money here, especially for a magazine! There have been many times that GW has pulled the price hike bs, but I do think there's a little bit of legitimacy here, not so much for WD, it's crap and we all know it. But, let's say the Chaos Black Spray... 18 bucks a can (US)?!? C'mon, my store wont even stock it anymore because of that kind of happening... however the owner of the shop did say that what used to cost 20,000 dollars to ship the primers to the US now costs 50,000 US. Everyone is feeling the effects! The rise in fuel costs last summer forced the people to jack up the shipping prices. Yep fuel is cheap now, but they seem to have forgotten to LOWER the costs. GW feels that kind of effect too, though I'm shocked that the metal models went up and not the plastic, since polystyrene requires oil to be made...

I dunno, I've seen GW jack up the prices every so often, so I'm kinda used to it, though I wonder what kid's parents are willing to fork out 40 bucks for 10 plastic marines so their kids can get as addicted as we are... GW tries to advertise to kids, which WD makes blatant as all hell, but their pricing is so high, it's amazing...

ok I write using stream of conciousness, whatever comes to mind LOL so if it's all over the place, sorry LOL


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

I let my subscription go two years ago and went in last week to buy a WD. When the guy told me the total I handed back the WD and left. The content from it is gone and I can find all the shiny pictures I want here or on the net. 

Like Galahad said I may need the marines but I don't need the magazine to play the game and enjoy the hobby. Besides I can go to my local GW sit there in the store and read it from cover to cover. It only takes two minutes to find the relavent stuff anyway.


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## Truth Bearer (Jul 30, 2008)

Well Eight dollars an issue may seem like alot, White Dwarf is still a quality magazine - also, the subscription now gets you 15 issues for 80... which I think is a great deal.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

HorusReborn said:


> I'm shocked that the metal models went up and not the plastic, since polystyrene requires oil to be made...


It does, but metal requires vastly more energy.

It's one thing to make something out of oil and quite another to light the stuff on fire to make elecricity or move stuff about. IF you think about $50 for a barrel of oil, I bet you could fill kind of a lot of sprues with a barrel load. They then sell these sprues for maybe $10 each. Material cost is not significant, energy use in manufacturing and transport, is.

Anyway I'll echo the point: WD is pointless and we already saw everything in it months ago. I love stuff like the "sneak preview" of the battlewagon in the tale of 4 gamers, when pictures of it have been all over the net for weeks.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Truth Bearer said:


> Well Eight dollars an issue may seem like alot, White Dwarf is still a quality magazine - also, the subscription now gets you 15 issues for 80... which I think is a great deal.


Compared to what? White Dwarf is a joke. What's useful in it? Their tactica articles that point out the obvious that anyone that's even remotely decent at the game would've thought of? Blech.


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

aah ya know I didn't even think of energy... thanks for pointing that out!


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> WD are £4:50 now??, why the hell complain about $8 then, your getting it cheaper than us.
> 
> guess I'll be saving £4.50 this month


We also get our gas cheaper than you. But that doesnt mean we werent getting gouged when the price went up. (prices are better now, well see how long that lasts).

I was actually considering getting a subscription again. Looks like ill stick to persuing at the store.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Truth Bearer said:


> White Dwarf is still a quality magazine


can I have some of whatever it is your taking please.

WD hasn't been of any quality except rubbish since Fat Bloke left


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## darius (Oct 11, 2008)

I vaguely remember WD issue 1 (from my D+D days) but I only starting buying it regularly from issue 295. Even comparing 295 to last month's shows a great decline in quality and there is now not enough to read for my commute home.

What's really disappointing is that it would take little to vastly improve it. How expensive would it be for a photographer to show up to competitions, take pictures of the better armies, ask players about their armies, tactics, fluff, whatever brought them to play that army et voila a few pages of relevant material that many would find interesting.


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## Shamrok (Feb 14, 2008)

Yeah i cant afford it either, so i guess we have to wait until GW realizes hey we can make this cheaper, but then again...well no more white dwarf i guess, i cant do it


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## Air Meister (Nov 19, 2008)

I never bothered buying white dwarf unless it it was for 50p at a carboot sale even then it was a waste. I was always thought white dwarf was just another way of fleecing you extortionately as far as GW is concerned (lol i spend enough money on models).


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## 1k-termie (May 31, 2008)

Truth Bearer said:


> Well Eight dollars an issue may seem like alot, White Dwarf is still a quality magazine - also, the subscription now gets you 15 issues for 80... which I think is a great deal.


Over here, its Ten bucks! TEN! Now, when I DO pick it up, all i hear are people telling me what a great deal it is. Over at my local comic shop, it costs 12 bucks before tax. So 8 bucks doesn't seem so bad now, does it?


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Truth Bearer said:


> Well Eight dollars an issue may seem like alot, White Dwarf is still a quality magazine - also, the subscription now gets you 15 issues for 80... which I think is a great deal.


So, you've been on the GW payroll for how long?

White Dwarf is a joke now compared to what it used to be and at £4.50 it's not really a very funny one. 
I can find everything I once got in WD right here. News and rumours, yep. Painting galleries, tips and advice, Heresy's got that covered. 
Rules, fluff, army lists the works.
That, I think, is the problem though, whatever they do to try and improve WD is a waste of time because the internet has made it redundant. It's a shame but thats the truth of the matter IMHO:cray:


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## Gannon (Mar 13, 2008)

Agreed. Now I'm not a fanboy by any means, but if they went with quality over quantity it would far outweigh the cost. I understand that legally they have to include the LotR stuff, but I think that's when it really started taking a turn for the worst. Does anyone know when the contract is up with LotR? Maybe we'll see an increase in actual quality content once they drop LotR and focus on WHFB, WH40K, and the Specialist games like BB, Mordheim, and Necromunda.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

don't start with LotR's again, just don't, its been proven time after time after time after time that its still a good seller and used to consistently make more money than both 40k and fantasy combined well after the magic of the movies was over.


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

The LOTR game wasn't that bad... I thought it was too much of a fad for me to get into it, but I have played a few games. Yeah we may not be interested in it, but c'mon, there are LOTR players who have no love for WFB or 40K. The truth is WD has gone tits up long ago! I do wonder though if it is us who are just getting older to see WD for what it is? I mean long ago, I was younger and loved WD, now I'm older and I see it as advertising. What do the kiddies who see this for the first time think? Though I will say this, thank God for the Heresy with all the info at my disposal, I've just saved me 8 bucks a month.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

HorusReborn said:


> Though I will say this, thank God for the Heresy with all the info at my disposal, I've just saved me 8 bucks a month.


Indeed. I for one donate the money I would be spending on WD to Heresy itself to help pay with server fees and stuff. Totally worth it in my mind. :good:


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

agreed Katie... I plan on becomming a supporter very soon!


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I don't think its got anything to do with our age Horus, I look at older WD's and enjoy reading them at 20, lots of pictures still, but they have a different feel to them, the battle reports were more interesting, and there was allot more of them, plus WD had specialist games back when I was reading them, so instead of 3 game systems, we had 7+ to read about, pictures of staff armies, public armies, proper FAQ's, Index Astartes, added units etc.

what do we get these days, the same pictures copy and pasted everywhere, rigged battle reports, useless articles, and thats it


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## gwmaniac (Sep 1, 2008)

gah. it's getting worse and worse. first the quality, now the prices! I remember unwrapping my november issue excitedly to find that subscriptions are now 75 to resubscribe. I like their strategy on how to make a profit!!


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## 1k-termie (May 31, 2008)

I agree, Katie! Only prob with me, I dont MAKE any money! hahahaha.... hu...

I bet GW is well aware of this, that the internet is taking over, but many people STILL don't get this, so it still sells pretty well.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

the quality has been slipping so much that they forget how to play the game. Batrep for the black reach issue. Most of the orks did a few run moves and they assaulted that turn too. Cover wasn't used properly(not by the rules anyway) and there wasa few more I can't remember now....


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

i find it really hard to hold my tongue at these kind of Pricing threads, so i thought hell why bother.

I think it stems from naivity. People have been saying this kind of shit from the begining of currency, and in gw its nothing new. GW is pricing themselves out of business......guess what there not. They are basing there pricing on the current markets costs of production......like most sucessful business'. There is a reason they account or 98% of the uk gaming minatures market....because they know what there doing. They put quality and customer service ahead of price.

I remember when it was.....[insert price here]

Was that back when kids made there own amusedment with a stick and a hoop and an inflated pigs bladder?

As an example a gw shop makes around 72p profit on a regiment box. not alot at all. because actually theres a shit load of cost that goes into producing gw products. it takes 2 years to go from concept to the shelves and literally dozens of people are involved in the design process. The molding processes are the most advanced minature production in the world. 

Have you looked at the cost of printing? A mate of mine owns a printers and he says he couldn't print wd for £4.50 let alone make it as a product.

I know i'm probably falling on deaf ears anyhow, but i think people have very naive ideas about business and very little concept of what gw does for its customers compared to other business practices.

I would also say if you think you can do better, why not try? Someone quoted firebase and some other webmag. At least these guys are doing something. but when i checked firebase out i thought it was rubbish. Lets say you actually think its good. Now produce it as a magazine, distribute it world wide and let us know how much you'd have to charge to pay your staff and make a profit[which by the way is the only way your business will be able to grow, make new developments pay back shareholders/financial backers]


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

But we're not talking about regiment boxes or other things you need, Jig.

The argument sort of falls apart when the item they're raising the price on is one that is 1: Not needed to play, 2: Of criminally poor quality, and 3: Already hideously expensive compared to items you *do* need to play.

Which is more valuable to your tabletop gaming experience? The new SM codex, or four issues of "Pretty pictures and faked batreps monthly" magazine?

I respect your rant for its general principles, but I think it was misplaced on this thread. People aren't whining that GW is too expensive, they're commenting on the fact that white dwarf is an unarguably shit-worthless product and rather than improving or scrapping it they're just charging more.

Also, the "You think you can do better?" argument is fundamentally flawed.

I can't build a car from the ground up, but I have a fair right to complain if mine is manufactured in such a way that it becomes prone to explosion when the seatbelts are buckled


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

however i feel the quality issue is totally seperate, i have no problem with people complaining about quality whatsoever, after thats a subjective thing that is personal to them. However there were several cries of...i can't afford it [if u can't afford 50p get a job] and i remember when it only cost....blah blah. 
the magazine is priced based on the costs o production.
Quality of content for the mag is totally different


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## Hudson (Jun 3, 2008)

and lets face it if the mag went up to £6 or even £7 people would still buy it 

i can't see WD going out of business or even pricing themselves out as the increase in price and thus the increase in profit will outway the loss in customers

plus this will only encourage more distributors to sell it i know from experience WD is available to discount traders and can be sold cheaper so that way the loss GW make from customers refusing to pay the higher amounts they will recoupe from additional sales from traders and because they will not get the costs involved from selling to trader (reduced costs as the trader will fund his own distribution) it will make more profit

lets face it a big company like GW will not increase prices without full consideration of losses there are many shareholders with GW who would have to agree to large decisions like that and i think would have a better understanding of the implications than any of us here


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

I kinda agree with Both Jig and Gal.

Jigs is right in all he says about costing and profits etc.

That said Gals comment about product quality( Dramatic exploding cars aside.) is correct.

WD has been plop for years now imo. I actually was fool enough to buy last months to add to my other halfs gaming experiance.

It used to be packed with all sorts of goodies.
( I never got over the fact that Epic was really replaced with LotR but ignore me on that one its a pet hate.)

How to make scenery sections now replaced by Buy This Scenary etc

But GW is a Business and selling you stuff is the name of the game.(And you thought it was Warhammer.)

To those older players that remember this price or that (Im one too), forget it, the price is up thats that. Its your choice to buy or not.
Just remember the fact that you were lucky enough to be into the hobby when it was run by Gaming Enthusiasts and not Accountants, that plastics were a byword for crappier minis than pewter and that White Dwarf was worth buying if not essential.

We can ALL enjoy the facts that paint quality and minis are so much better than they were 20 years ago and Dexs are better value than they were in 3rd ed.


Back to the White Dwarf issue, 
is it over priced for a full colour Magazine of that print quality? No not really.
Is it a big fat advert with very little value to you in the hobby? Most definatly.

What can you do? Not much really just stop buying it and if sales drop enough GW might remember to ask themselves why.

I miss the Journal is it still about? I remember when that was about it was packed full of cool conversions and rules for stuff..........


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## Fluff'Ead (Aug 22, 2007)

jigplums said:


> however i feel the quality issue is totally seperate, i have no problem with people complaining about quality whatsoever, after thats a subjective thing that is personal to them. However there were several cries of...i can't afford it [if u can't afford 50p get a job] and i remember when it only cost....blah blah.
> the magazine is priced based on the costs o production.
> Quality of content for the mag is totally different


Quality and pricing are always related when you ask yourself if you're getting your money's worth. Regardless of whether GW raises prices because they have no other choice or simply for shits and giggles, fact is that WD doesn't offer enough to be worth buying.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Well, I took a subscription out in August, got my first in September, just before the price rise, so, I am a lucky one, who gets all their WDs at £4 each, with 2 free I think.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Viscount Vash said:


> To those older players that remember this price or that (Im one too), forget it, the price is up thats that. Its your choice to buy or not.
> Just remember the fact that you were lucky enough to be into the hobby when it was run by Gaming Enthusiasts and not Accountants, that plastics were a byword for crappier minis than pewter and that White Dwarf was worth buying if not essential.


I think you've hit the nail on the head there, a lot of us do remember when GW was run by enthusiasts. The web site and WD are examples of what happens when the accountants get too much control. 
Both are now just big catalogues with shiny pictures. It is a shame but that's the way with big business.
I just don't buy WD anymore, I have picked up two copies in the last two years just to have a look at when I was bored. I read them and found I was still bored, but had an overwhelming urge to buy some Space Marines?!
:scratchhead:


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## Hudson (Jun 3, 2008)

lol when you consider GW as a whole entity it still is a hobbiests hobby i mean most shops which are run at a profit have 1 maybe 2 staff at any given time. i rarely have entered a GW with less than 4 now this is surely a exercise in good customer realtions over good business sense there aren't many business that will teach you something for free however you can go into a GW store and be taught to paint, game or whatever

i do not buy WD but i disagree that a price rise is anything other than a move to recover some losses in these hard times the whole GW model is customer based, i find it hard to beleive they are increasing prices to make more money, if this were the case they would have raised prices before a credit crunch in which they could have gained more profit/pound whereas now with the small increases in prices it just seems they're trying to cover raising costs - regardless of content WD (even as a large catalogue) is still cheap as jig says it must cost a fortune to produce 

Bring back paul sawyer would be my view he made it a great publication (in his hayday) also it's down to us as hobbiests to change it. try writing articles that you'd like to see in WD and send them in? suggest things and post them, might not make a difference but it may just make the magasine exactly what people want to read?

who knows but in answer to the question: no not a rip off it's the same value as it's always been just with a worse content (down to the writers in terms of production costs the price has increased on par if not below inflation)


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I agree with you Hudson, when Sawyer was in charge of the magazine it was great, it had a lot of stuff for the gamer. Now it really seems like it is nothing but one large advertising for their product, which in some ways it is nice. IMHO they need to get rid or shrink the LOTR section down a lot. Include a monthly FAQ by persons who know WTF they talk about and can make things like this official. Bring back Chapter Approved! Include special characters for us. Make us want to buy this damn thing again!


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

djinn24 said:


> IMHO they need to get rid or shrink the LOTR section down a lot.


I like LotR, shrink or get rid of the warhammer sections instead


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

*your right to complain*

I checked out the exchange rates on the federal bank of New York's website and I'd say given that White Dwarf costs £4.50 here in Britain, that the American version is about a dollar to much.

That said, while I can't speak for the American edition, the British one is in my opinion not only good value for money, but also is far superior to any other wargames magazine avaliable on the market.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Stella Cadente said:


> I like LotR, shrink or get rid of the warhammer sections instead


To each their own and all, but... burn! Burn heretic!


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## domdan (Oct 26, 2008)

tbh i dont mind paying. i mean come on guys, its less than a fiver a month (gbp). and it has got a lot of good articles such as 'eavy metal workshops and battle reports. i will still continue to buy it.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

domdan said:


> i mean come on guys, its less than a fiver a month (gbp). and it has got a lot of good articles such as 'eavy metal workshops and battle reports.


Good articles? 'eavy metal workshops are fine, but the Battle Reports are absolutely terrible compared to how they used to be. Blech.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Like many of the others I used to have a subscription to the "magazine" and have let it lapse. It wasn't the price, I will always find money for a paper goods of quality to read as often i read them numerous times and referance them often. In short as others have said WD is not quality. Its blah blah blah etc I won't bore you with the details of my personal gripes with it as its nothing that anybody hasn't said before.

Its not the price thats the problem, its the content. There is none. 

- So in that vein I propose that instead of WD meaning "White Dwarf" it should now stand for "What Drivel" -

(No offense intended to anybody who sleeps with the latest copy of WD under their pillow)


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Fluff'Ead said:


> Quality and pricing are always related when you ask yourself if you're getting your money's worth. Regardless of whether GW raises prices because they have no other choice or simply for shits and giggles, fact is that WD doesn't offer enough to be worth buying.


Exactly!

In the 'standard' thread complaining about price increases, that's all the person is doing, complaining that it's more expensive than it used to be. Nobody (except the occasional person who doesn't care for their latest codex) ever really argues that GW isn't providing a quality product, so in those threads Jigplum's argument is ptetty valid.

However, in this thread, most of the posts I've read are commenting on the fact that WD isn't WORTH $8 an issue.

Back before Paizo's license ran out and WOTC snapped it back up and turned it into some online crap I used to have a subscription to Dragon Magazine, which was about $8 an issue, cover price.

I never once complained about the cost of Dragon Magazine because every issue was packed with stuff I can actually use in my games. New races, classes, rules, Monthly official FAQ sessions, comics, product previews, release schedules that actually projected for the whole YEAR, etc...it was very, very, very much worth the cover price.

Its sister magazine Dungeon was so popular it actually started costing WOTC money because it adversely impacted the sales of WOTC produced adventure modules (Why buy a $15 module when your monthly Dungeon sunscription contained several stand-alone adventures AND pieces of the ongoing adventure campaign arc for only $8?)

White Dwarf, however, is not even remotely worth its current cover price, let alone any increase.

Quality and price are very important. You shouldn't expect to pay premium price for a sub-par product. If GW can't put in the effort to make White Dwarf worthwhile then perhaps they should consider cutting their losses.

Also, as much as I hate to disagree with Hudson, the customer service at every GW store I've been to has been universally off-putting. To the point that I only ever visit them twice a year, when someone else is paying and there's noplace else that stocks what I want. 

Corporate-trained drones with very little game knowledge and canned sales techniques are not helpful to me. Someone assuming I don't know how to play right off the bat is not helpful to me. Someone pestering me about the latest pre-orders when I came in to get a product off the shelf is not helpful to me. Someone who doesn't know that a Basalisk doesn't come with all the Chimera parts sure as *hell* isn't helpful to me.

Maybe if I were an abject noob without any idea what I want I'd find the local GW to be a haven of customer service excellance...but as a veteran gamer I avoid the place like the plague. This is why I shop online from nice people like Hudson ;-)

That said, the GW hotline is brilliant, always wonderfully helpful.


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## when in doubt shoot! (Oct 19, 2008)

The battle reports suck, Whatever they've just released always wins to promote their stuff. I only use the painting workshops, and any gw staff member at my local gw will tell me how to paint them for free.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Katie Drake said:


> To each their own and all, but... burn! Burn heretic!


exactly, you can't have a magazine that makes everyone happy, but going around saying "get rid of LotR, it suxzors, it loses GW money" (I know that hasn't been said allot around here YET, but its the usual foolish response) (or saying it in any other way, even if sounding intelligent) is not only pointless OR pathetic, but also false


domdan said:


> tbh i dont mind paying. i mean come on guys, its less than a fiver a month (gbp). and it has got a lot of good articles such as 'eavy metal workshops and battle reports. i will still continue to buy it.


once again can I have whatever drug your on, if it makes even the cesspit of useless articles and fake Battle Reports known as WD look good it MUST be powerful stuff.

my neo mag is less than a fiver a month, heck less than £4 a month, but contains far much more useful information in it about its subject than WD does about its subject


Jacobite said:


> (No offense intended to anybody who sleeps with the latest copy of WD under their pillow)


depends why its under there, thick issues can be comfy in desperate situations, and if it gets ruined, its a bonus.

but also if you sleep with an older copy under your pillow, thats acceptable


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Compare white Dwarf to what Dragon was before WOTC snapped it back up and anyone with eyes will see it's not worth it


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

Galahad said:


> Exactly!
> Also, as much as I hate to disagree with Hudson, the customer service at every GW store I've been to has been universally off-putting. To the point that I only ever visit them twice a year, when someone else is paying and there's noplace else that stocks what I want.
> 
> Corporate-trained drones with very little game knowledge and canned sales techniques are not helpful to me. Someone assuming I don't know how to play right off the bat is not helpful to me. Someone pestering me about the latest pre-orders when I came in to get a product off the shelf is not helpful to me. Someone who doesn't know that a Basalisk doesn't come with all the Chimera parts sure as *hell* isn't helpful to me.
> ...


wow, way to make sweeping judgements that insult people gal. How many gw's have you been in? not that i really care, my opinion of you has just gone done several notches.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

jigplums said:


> wow, way to make sweeping judgements that insult people gal. How many gw's have you been in? not that i really care, my opinion of you has just gone done several notches.


Sad thing is that in my experience, he's actually right. I'm yet to find a single GW employee that's been even remotely helpful.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

maybe there is a genuine problem with overseas gw's then?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

jigplums said:


> maybe there is a genuine problem with overseas gw's then?


Quite likely, yes. I'm yet to go to a GW on your side of the pond, but I hear that they're far more numerous than they are around here and that the staff are genuinely helpful and interested in their job. I also hear that being into GW stuff is more socially acceptable there, but that's sort of another topic.


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## Hudson (Jun 3, 2008)

yes must agree i'm afraid british GW stores seem to be the complete opposite in my experience. not once have i walked into any GW store (by any i mean the 4 i've visited) and not greated with a warm welcome by people half way through a game

some are at times a little too helpfull, but i couldn't say i've ever come out feeling neglected.


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## Druchii in Space (Apr 7, 2008)

Aye, I'm thinking this is a North American issue regarding GW stores, I've been in 7 diff UK stores in my time. All where crewed by staff who knew what they where talking about, wanted to be there, and in three cases the Manager made you want to pop in as he was such a laugh to have a chat with. 

Been to Games Day with two diff stores as well, and oddly it was a very similar 'fun' experience from different ends of the country. (west to east.)


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

> Dragon Magazine


Galahad, that magazine used to be awesome. I remember being a kid and spending hours at the library just reading those. If WD was only 1/10 of what that used to be. Thanks for bringing back the memories.



> Sad thing is that in my experience, he's actually right. I'm yet to find a single GW employee that's been even remotely helpful.


I live in Ontario and I have met a few who are decent people, pretty funny, aren't drones and aren't too pushy with sales. I think these are not the norm, but they do exist and grouping all of the GW store staff as useless, product pushing drones is not fair.


On the topic of WD, I think the lack of content and the space "ads" take up is not unique to that magazine. If you open up a gaming magazine or computer game magazine its pretty much the same deal. However, those mags are still at around the $7 range not the $10 WD is at. A lot of these magazines are being dumped straight to an online site or being removed altogether.

The problem is that all the useful information can easily be found online now a days. Want a master painter guide tutorial, go to CMON, want tips and tactics check a forum, want to see what is new and coming, go to a forum. Most people seem to rather enjoy reading printed material over reading it off a screen for a small cost, but at some point that cost is too much, WD passed that point a long time ago.

After all this what is left, battle reports (which are getting better but are still pretty terrible) and that is it. Maybe a story every now and than, but not likely. $10 worth of content no way.


What I would like to see in WD...

Paint Guides: These are still pretty good. Good way to show off the new models without making it a pointless ad. Would be nice if they went back and looked at a different scheme for an older army maybe.

Model, sculpting, kit bashing: I have seen some pretty cool stuff made for GW stores, or on the website from paint or die competitions. Some employees make some pretty cool models in their army. Why not have these in the magazine. Even have staff submit entries, most of the user created online magazines get material from outside players. GW has this huge base of apparent gamers working for them, why not use them and not just the same 10 people who are at the head office coming up with stuff.

Battle Reports: These will always be in the magazine but they are not where they used to be. They have improved slightly though. Why not even take a few games from a hall of heroes tournament or something. I would love to see how the winner actually did it.

Supplements: Stuff like Apoc datasheets, new scenarios, new vehicle designs, small games like 40k in 40 minutes, tactics even. I would not want to see FAQ or rule queries here. Not knowing an official rule change because I didn't get the issue is a bad idea. They way they update FAQ's is crap at the moment, but it would be better than updating them in a magazine that most people don't buy.

Event updates: Give a description of how a big conflict tournament went. How was Games day etc, what was announced etc. Ever see the blogging and reviews that go on about Comicon or Blizzcon, why can't it be like this for GW. Keep this as a fun look at things though and not a corporate, company line speel.

New Stuff and Previews: Its not going away so live with it. Could be less of it though and more info and less pictures.

Specialist Games: A lot of people play these games, they are a great start to get someone into the hobby. I understand there are no floor space on store shelves but why not advertise these in the magazine. Using a few articles, these games with the price point is something than can and might catch peoples eyes and be impulse buys. 

Stories: Even if its the first chapter from a new book. They do that in books now, provide the first chapter from another book written by the same author. I have never read a GW novel, I might like it, I might not. Not going to spend the money on one if I have no idea how it is, but if there was a teaser or a preview than hey I might just.

WD can provide a way to advertise products without being so blatant. I think right now the magazine is too visual, properly placed and written substance can do exactly the same or more to sell something than a pretty picture. It needs to go back to a format that mirrors what the old GW site was. Guys who play the game writing about the crazy fluff for their armies, how they are trying to finish off 2000 point of goblins in a month etc (read any paint or die article as an example of how WD should be, more light hearted and less corporate). If the magazine doesn't change, I say just fold it up and ditch it like a lot of other specialty magazines are doing


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

1. WD is a shadow of what it used to be
2. while not necessarily overpriced for a magazine, overpriced for content
3. LoTR sux

hahaha, j/k abotu 3. sry, had to say it. While i dont like LoTR. I have not played in so i keep LoTR bashing to a minimum. I just wonder if LoTR is making all this money why the LoTR section at my stor is only 2 foot wide while fantasy and 40k have 32 feet of space.

Canadian WD__10$can - 12.20 US - 5.3 GBP
UK WD_______ 4.5 GBP - 8.41$can - 6.75 US(wow, GBP fell .4 against the dollar since last month)
US WD_______ 8$US - 5.2 GBP - 6.48$can

Based on current exchange rates 11/26.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

I find it only takes about 5 minutes to read any useful stuff, so do what I do, just read it in the store and put it back on the shelf!


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

asianavatar said:


> Event updates: Give a description of how a big conflict tournament went. How was Games day etc, what was announced etc....


One big issue(hehe) here is the fact that WD is printed with material 3 months in advance. IE the April number is printed in January. This leaves them with very obsolete things to write about that are past before the WDs hits the shelves. Why? Everyone has seen/red/eaten/whatever it online allready:headbutt:

GW must seriously revamp the whole WD idea.
From scratch:wild:

Personally I think that they are, a bit like the record companies, stuck in the old ways of thinking that were common some 20ish years ago. England is not by far the most computerized land in the world and old habits die hard, so the peoples making desicions on GW HQ are still living in the "old world" where everyone used to buy magz. The modern world aint like that. Buying a mag that takes up some event 3 months ago aint "kewl" anymore, its out of date:spiteful:
And selling out of date things at overprice is probably the best recipie for epic fail ever:alcoholic:


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I'll have to agree with Gal and Katie, every GW I've been in I feel pressured to buy something I don't want, or like I'm being watched like a hawk, just in case I stray from the Marine section and they can force me back, I hate going into GW's, thats why I ain't been in one for anything major in.................a long time, I like to just go in, get what I want, and get out fast, before the vulchers come to get me.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I don't know if it's because I'm a foreigner (from up North), but the southern GW's, like Poole just seem so much less welcoming than the one I'm used to.

Or maybe it's because I don't like Southerners, since my local Games Workshop got a new manager, and I didn't like him, so I went to one that was a little farther away.

Bah, Off Topic, ftl.

I've recently (well, 2 weeks ago) been looking at an OLD OLD White Dwarf (267, I think it was), any case, the Balrog had just been released, with the brand new topsyturvy LotR and Main Game Systems back-to-front and upside down.

Haha, when I first bought it, even that kookiness (why would they do such a thing? etc got me hooked) kept me interested, then they stopped it after a couple of issues.

Since then, it's steadily gone worse, then when the specialist games took a seperate route from the Magazine, and finally, when the in-depth background disappeared. The last straw was when Fat Bloke went =(. Last one I bought was WD300, or the 30 year birthday ones, and only for the 'special limited editions' that they were. Sold them for a tenner on ebay.

Before that, the last one, I think was just after the Beasts of Chaos was released, and only nicked a mates everyso often to read the articles, but now, I can't even be arsed to do that.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

jigplums said:


> wow, way to make sweeping judgements that insult people gal. How many gw's have you been in? not that i really care, my opinion of you has just gone done several notches.


I'm sorry to hear that, and I never meant to offend you but I wasn't making sweeping judgments. I was making judgments of the stores I had been to. I said that every single GW store *that I had been to* was universally terrible for customer service (universal in the sense of failing at every important aspect), and they have been, at least on the times I've been to them. I've been to two or three (I can't recall offhand if the third one was a GW store or if I'm thinking of the corporate run mall store that used to be a WOTC outlet) and they were all staffed by youngsters with little actual gaming experience, and all with the same arsenal of pre-loaded corporate sales techniques. I only go there once or twice a year because I don't like it there, so perhaps I'm just catching them on "Bring an idiot to work day" it's possible if I stuck it out and became a regular I'd find the place less irritating, but I've been too put off by them to put in the effort.

I've worked corporate retail, I know how they train employees. I sold lawnmowers at sears and hadn't mown my own lawn in years (bad grass allergies), hardly knew a thing about them. I just repeated the shallow mantras and made sure I read the display stand faster than the customer did...then I went over and sold someone a treadmill, a power drill, etc...no experience needed, just confidence, spiel and the ability to read without moving your lips.

The people working at the stores I've been to seemed to have had the same sort of 'sales over substance' training that I remembered. Teach them the right lines, give them just enough product knowledge to fool the casual buyer and hope they pick up the rest before they get fired or quit.

And from what I hear from others, this is pretty typical, at least in the north american stores.

Here's a sample from my last visit to GW...quoted from a Pointless Gripe I made in september



Galahad said:


> I fucking hate going to GW stores. I only set foot in the local one here when my mother decides to take me out shopping for my birthday or christmas.
> 
> Well, last sunday, a month to the day after my birthday my mom gets around to taking me out.
> 
> ...


For the record, this was posted right afterwards, so the tone is one of a pissed off customer. I never actually cussed the kid out or called him names. I ust told him I knew what I wanted and didn't need him just yet. He responded by offering to teach me how to play...because obviously if I know what I need I have no idea how the game works? He tries selling me on pre-orders and other crap while I'm trying to shop for what I want. I managed to get him to leave me alone, then later called on him for help, wrongly assuming he knew his merch...only to get upsold to a more expensive model that didn't have the parts I needed, despite being told that it DID.

This is pretty typical of my GW experience. The guys inside the store are more focused on making a sale than actually helping you or, god forbid, letting you shop on your own. They don't know the product (even the kid's boss assured me the bassie had a chimera inside) and succeeded only in pissing me off and making me say terrible things about them on the internet. 

However, I will never, ever complain about the customer service from the GW hotline. Those guys are always fantastic.


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## gwmaniac (Sep 1, 2008)

Hudson said:


> yes must agree i'm afraid british GW stores seem to be the complete opposite in my experience. not once have i walked into any GW store (by any i mean the 4 i've visited) and not greated with a warm welcome by people half way through a game
> 
> some are at times a little too helpfull, but i couldn't say i've ever come out feeling neglected.


the employees at my GW greet the new customers pretty well, but I must say they do pressure the people a bit to start the hobby. Heck, they tried to get an elderly couple to play! But the good thing is they go overload on the freebies. Like I killed a Daemon Prince and a Bloodthirster in one turn during an Apocalypse battle and they gave me a combat squad, and the dirst time I ever entered that store, they gave me a Vindicator and Predator from raffles, not to mention a mini army of Catachans! The people who go there greet me pretty well, but they probably would be too busy in a battle to notice another customer. But all in all, I'm pretty content with my fellow gamers and employees at my GW.


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## TAUfanatic (Jun 7, 2008)

this is why I'm glad I have a subcription

of course it''ll run out evenyually.....


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## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

i read all these complaints and gw backing and laugh yes mag is shit on quality but still wages go up production goes up it steam roles all they way to the newsagent.

same with models but i have 7k in marines all bought from ebay and uk discount stores i forked out bugger all for it compared to uk and aus gw stores buying cheaper then aus prices in aus a battle force is 150 dollars i can get same battle force for $80 aus with free shipping from ebay .
it might take 1-2 weeks but i believe that 70 bucks is better off in my pocket hell another ten and i could have two battle forces for an an extra ten bucks so quit whinging and find the bargins.
everyone knows prices will go up or you will continue making the same 20 pounds an hour for life but governments force better pays people ask for better wages giving pay rises companies need to balloon prices to cover increased costs so they still make a profit.
as a contractor when living costs go up i say i could go to work make nothing at end of week or stay home and make nothing i knw what i'd rather.

ok that everything i need to say


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

jigplums said:


> maybe there is a genuine problem with overseas gw's then?


Yes Jig, Gal's accessment does seem harsh, but over here in the US the GW stores seem to goout and hire any person they can in an attempt to find someone who can learn how to sell something versus someone who actually knows about the game. I honestly avoid GW store in lieu to going to a real gaming shop, normally you have to know something about a game or gaming in general to open one of those. It wold be nice if they made potential customers take a test to see how well they know the system.

From what I have seen the GW stores in the UK tend to hire people who really know the games, and yes I am envious of that!



spike12225 said:


> i read all these complaints and gw backing and laugh yes mag is shit on quality but still wages go up production goes up it steam roles all they way to the newsagent.


As has been said many times before, it is not the cost going up that pisses most of us off, its the fact that the quality has went down to a level where none of us could give two shits less about the magazine. GW needs to hire Paizo to do WD, maybe then we could get a quality product.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

spike12225 said:


> but still wages go up


wages going up, thats hilarious, try wages stay exactly the same, everything else goes up


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> wages going up, thats hilarious, try wages stay exactly the same, everything else goes up


_Sighs_.......


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

djinn24 said:


> GW needs to hire Paizo to do WD, maybe then we could get a quality product.


That would be beautiful, man. I think I'm tearing up.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

*throws Galahad a tissue box*

Who/what is Paizo???


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

The guys who ran Dragon and Dungeon magazines for the 3rd/3.5 edition period of D&D.

They were the same price as WD but with more pages of content, packed with new rules, adventures and options, gamer comics and <gasp> Monthly official Q&A answers from one of the game developers. Dragon and Dungeon were the perfect paradigms for gaming mags.

Unfortunately when their contract with WOTC ended, they took the rights back and converted it into a shitty online shadow of its former glory...most believe it;s because Dungeon was costing WOTC too much in adventure module sales (Because their content was BETTER and cheaper/more plentiful than official GW adventures)

In short, Paizo made D&D's two magazines *too* good.

<owns every Paizo-produced issue of Dragon Magazine>


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## Hudson (Jun 3, 2008)

ok everyone here seems to know what they wanna see in a monthly mag. we've got artists we've got gamers

Heresy online Monthly!!!

seems a good idea to me


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Hudson said:


> Heresy online Monthly!!!
> 
> seems a good idea to me


Indeed... :grin:


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

Hudson said:


> ok everyone here seems to know what they wanna see in a monthly mag. we've got artists we've got gamers
> 
> Heresy online Monthly!!!
> 
> seems a good idea to me


Prepare to be dragged off by men is suits for having too good an idea


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## Hudson (Jun 3, 2008)

lol ideas are easy implimentation is the hard part


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Don't buy this month's UK WD as they've made a serious FUBAR- I shall be returning to the shop I brought it from and expecting a return of my money.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

whats the Fubar?, it only helps if you tell us


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

well it might only be a fubar on my copy, so i'm returning it tomorrow for an exchange. The fubar I have is the fact that the Battle Report for the Tale of 4 Gamers cuts out at turn 4 and then restarts with the first 16 pages of the same article.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Yep, totally worth $8


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I would be so into a gaming mag if we could get the license for GW.


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## Hudson (Jun 3, 2008)

is a license totally required? i mean it's a gamers mag about gamers opinions and experiences as long as rules for stats etc are followed there surely shouldn't be too many problems


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

For use of their imagery and such then we would have to have their permission I am pretty sure, but I am not a lawyer.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Perhaps you would if you directly used their imagery, etc, but there isn't anything they can do about people taking a photo of their product (like at Bell of Lost Souls with upcoming releases) and writing about it. As for artwork and whatnot, there are plenty of artists here that are capable of producing stuff at the same level as GW artwork, so you wouldn't need to use any GW art either.


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## Hudson (Jun 3, 2008)

exactly i mean:

'eavy metal: heresy members could give them a run for their money
battle reps: no comment needed lol
new releases: pics from conventions etc

lots of stuff all in house and opinions etc


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Jez did post a thread about a Heresy ezine asking for interested parties, in case anyone missed it, no idea what is happening with it further than that thread mind.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

well I didn't see the FUBAR, but I guess I missed it since this months WD was not only more expensive, but also took all of 10 seconds to read.........and I ain't joking


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