# How do the Thousand Sons recruit new members?



## sethgabriel1990 (Sep 21, 2010)

I know the Thousand Sons were/never have been a particularly large legion, but since the Rubric of Ahriman, i'm assuming that the only marines left with any gene-seed are the really bad-ass psyker types, and they aren't dying at a rate to sustain a legion, so... how do they recruit new members? :shok:


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

I have been under the impression that they dont. Instead they seem (from what I have heard) resurrect their dead by bringing them back from the warp using some arcane ritual.


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## sethgabriel1990 (Sep 21, 2010)

thats pretty cool, fits in with them fluff-wise to me. what I dont get about this though, how come they dont just resurrect all of their dead members at one time? surely then they could go and have it out once and for all with the Space Wolves??


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## Fire Tempered (Dec 16, 2010)

That thing works only on Rubric marines I think. When one is destroyed, they bind his soul to armor again.


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## sethgabriel1990 (Sep 21, 2010)

so essentially, rubric marines are immortal?


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## Fire Tempered (Dec 16, 2010)

I'm not sure, it seems so.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

sethgabriel1990 said:


> so essentially, rubric marines are immortal?


Burn them all to cinders and they ain`t coming back.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I don't believe they recruit, either.

Well, perhaps the Sorcerers do, once in a very long while. Essentially, they are less a Legion (heck, less a warband) and more a cabal of semi-independent Sorcerers. Their activities would be less like any other Legion's (raiding, warring on the Imperium, fighting against other Traitors) and more esoteric: studying, accumulating knowledge, searching for things, etc.

Their Rubric Marines are already bound to their individual suits of armour. I would assume that, so long as the armour itself remains intact, the Rubric Marine would not need to be "resurrected".

As for whether this effect could be replicated, it's worth remembering that the "armor binding" was a completely unanticipated side-effect of the Rubric of Ahriman. Perhaps some other Sorcerer will nail down just *that* part of it, I suppose. The fact that the latest Codex has the Sorcerer's "hiring out" their servants to other warlords would indicate this, I would think. Otherwise, this would have to be reconciled with a VERY finite number of Rubric Marines.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> Well, perhaps the Sorcerers do, once in a very long while. Essentially, they are less a Legion (heck, less a warband) and more a cabal of semi-independent Sorcerers. Their activities would be less like any other Legion's (raiding, warring on the Imperium, fighting against other Traitors) and more esoteric: studying, accumulating knowledge, searching for things, etc.
> 
> Their Rubric Marines are already bound to their individual suits of armour. I would assume that, so long as the armour itself remains intact, the Rubric Marine would need to be "resurrected".
> 
> As for whether this effect could be replicated, it's worth remembering that the "armor binding" was a completely unanticipated side-effect of the Rubric of Ahriman. Perhaps some other Sorcerer will nail down just *that* part of it, I suppose. The fact that the latest Codex has the Sorcerer's "hiring out" their servants to other warlords would indicate this, I would think. Otherwise, this would have to be reconciled with a VERY finite number of Rubric Marines.



I think this pretty much somes it up to be honest.

1. Recruitment is carried out by the Sorcerers who seek out knowledgable human psykers and gifted individuals who they take on as apprentices.

Ahriman is the best example of this. It explicitly states that many warbands are glad when he shows up, only to find that by the end of his time with them, he has stolen any artifacts that were of value and taken the most gifted members as well.

2. Supposedly because of the way the Rubric Spell ended up the souls of former TS Marines can be brought back from the warp and encased in a new set of armour. But dont forget that they are basically devoid of any will of their own, so are used extensively as bodyguards for sorcerers and not even necessarily Thousand Sons Sorcerers.

3. The Black Legion Sorcerers know the Rubric Spell and make Rubric Marines for themselves. So who is to say that captive or traitor marines aren't turned into Rubrics against their will?

4. Tzeentch provides all for his favoured Legion 



Hope that helps.


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## sethgabriel1990 (Sep 21, 2010)

so there's evidence that they have gene-seed left then? And i like that; 'tzeench provides all'


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

sethgabriel1990 said:


> so there's evidence that they have gene-seed left then? And i like that; 'tzeench provides all'


My understanding would be that they don't need gene seed very much.

By that I mean in the sheer quantities that other Legions would.

As someone said, they are very esoteric and aren't running around crazy, they more swiftly raid museums and ruins and things of that nature.

Also what do they need the geneseed for?

Rubrics certainly don't need any, and they don't necessarily need to transform gifted psykers into Astartes.

Also their own gene-seed was very unstable before the Rubric Spell was cast.

So all in all, I would doubt they would be particularly concerned with gene-seed in comparison with some of the other Legions.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Although they are very different from other traitor marines I would guess that Tsons sorcerers would still be marines, gene seed and all.


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## sethgabriel1990 (Sep 21, 2010)

I didnt think, the gene-seed was flawed to begin with... hence the Rubric. how confusing for me :biggrin: so it would seem that they're never going to regain their former strength, and roughly stay at the numbers they are now?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Phoebus said:


> I Their Rubric Marines are already bound to their individual suits of armour. I would assume that, so long as the armour itself remains intact, the Rubric Marine would need to be "resurrected".


In the 2nd(?) SW book a group of TS brought back a large group of Rubrics using a bunch of slaves.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

While I appreciate the concept of TS marines being resurrected from the Warp whenever they're killed, in the final SW novel, Ragnar Blackmane is actually IN the Eye of Terror on a Chaos construct world. He kills a whole bunch of TS Rubric marines, including one of their chief sorcerers. If the marines could simply be resurrected back from the Warp, why wouldn't they just be invulnerable regardless... or I imagine the SW would have figured out by now they need to destroy any TS armour after killing the spirit within.

I was wondering about the whole TS propagation myself, since if not readily available, they'd be down to almost nothing by now after 10 millenia of getting their asses handed to them by the SW.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> While I appreciate the concept of TS marines being resurrected from the Warp whenever they're killed, in the final SW novel, Ragnar Blackmane is actually IN the Eye of Terror on a Chaos construct world. He kills a whole bunch of TS Rubric marines, including one of their chief sorcerers. If the marines could simply be resurrected back from the Warp, why wouldn't they just be invulnerable regardless... or I imagine the SW would have figured out by now they need to destroy any TS armour after killing the spirit within.
> 
> I was wondering about the whole TS propagation myself, since if not readily available, they'd be down to almost nothing by now after 10 millenia of getting their asses handed to them by the SW.


Wow that's not a completely biased interpretation of the fluff.


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## sethgabriel1990 (Sep 21, 2010)

D-A-C said:


> Wow that's not a completely biased interpretation of the fluff.


 
my thoughts exactly :grin:


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Yea, just got through reading the second SW Omnibus and haven't made it to the TS HH novels yet. That aside, I do think the TS are one of the most interesting Legions, both before and after the Heresy.


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## DivineArchitect (Mar 24, 2011)

soo....they're a bunch of really pissed of museum curators?


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## vipertaja (Mar 20, 2010)

Resurrection of fallen rubric marines seems to be their thing, as others have already mentioned. Sorcerers might be recruited from the cultist sorcerers occasionally, but I've seen no mention of it. 



sethgabriel1990 said:


> what I dont get about this though, how come they dont just resurrect all of their dead members at one time?


The ritual could be slow and difficult...and it could also require a horrible price for all we know. Use your imagination. When you deal with chaos it's not as simple as "why don't they just...".


Personally I think rubric marines could also be recruited on occasion. Wouldn't it be a suitably ironic Tzeentchian thing to do: to reward the long faithful service of a mortal cultist by basically making him an automaton? It wouldn't really require gene seed either, seeing as how the "wearer" of the suit is a pile of ash inside. Imagine wishing for immortality and finding out* that it makes you basically a ghost in a suit of armour with very little in way of personality. 

Silly cultist thinking joining the legion would make him a sorcerer... :laugh:

*if you even have time to realise it, of course...


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## sethgabriel1990 (Sep 21, 2010)

vipertaja said:


> Resurrection of fallen rubric marines seems to be their thing, as others have already mentioned. Sorcerers might be recruited from the cultist sorcerers occasionally, but I've seen no mention of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cultists to rubric marines sounds cool... But just thinking out loud here, the TS could presumably 'poach' members from other warbands and 'rubric' their arses surely? And they must get the odd loyalist-turn traitor marines. But im guessing if say, a librarian from a loyal chapter went to then, he wouldnt get the rubric done on him


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

But you'd really need an Astartes to make any sort of useful Rubric, wouldn't you? I mean that we know a Rubric's will is subservient to the Sorceror in charge, but the Rubric _does_ retain its knowledge of fighting and shooting as an Astartes; this will always be at a higher level for a Rubric-ised Astartes over a Rubric-ised Cultist. Plus, there's the issue of morphic memory (to nick a Discworld word!). 
The physical of a Rubric is that of an Astartes (no shit, Sherlock, I hear you cry!). We all went through that period as our body grew (and doubtless some are going through it as they read this) when we became inexplicably clumsy and unco-ordinated, at least compared to what we had been. It may last for hardly any time, or be a real life-ruiner. This happens because our physical body changes faster than the brain can keep up. How is this relevant? Well, take a normal Human and stick his soul in a body that's massively bigger than anything he had whilst alive; further, add into that the PA that takes a hell of a lot of learning to use- learning a Rubric can't do. Using Cultists might be done in a dire emergency, but you'd end up with clumsy, unco-ordinated, inaccurate and crap-at-hth Rubrics, who'd never be able to improve no matter how long they survived.
It's a lovely idea, though, and I can see isolated examples working out.

GFP


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I have to disagree with the "cultist-to-Rubric" concept.

The Rubric, and the effect it had on the rank-and-file Thousand Sons was, at its most fundamental level, both a colossal joke played by Tzeentch against Ahriman and a threat that could not ignored. Ahriman _sought to stop mutation_ leveled on his Legion by the Lord of Change... using the very tools of the Lord of Change. Tzeentch, in turn, showed him that the only way that would happen is if something just as bad, if not worse, was inflicted upon them.

The idea that sorcerers lesser than Ahriman can somehow replicate a twist on his works caused by Tzeentch himself seems a bit of a stretch. Furthermore, the manufacture of such warriors strikes me as contrary to the Legion's theme.

Now, can those suits of armor the Sons have been bound to be repaired? That's something I'd like to see... some fluff regarding the integrity of said suits, how much damage it takes to ruin the sorcerous effect on it, etc.

One poster questioned the possibility of there still (realistically) being any Rubric Marines left after ten millennia. I would point out that time moves differently in the Warp, and that, at any rate, the Thousand Sons warbands do not engage in constant conventional warfare. Their activities are far more esoteric, and those campaigns--such as they are--they do engage in are determined far more by sorcery than by the might of their automata-like infantry servants.

Cheers,
P.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

According to lexicanum, the book _Battle of the Fang_ states there is around 700 Marines (both sorerers and Rubric together), meaning Ahriman went way with the rest. My theory is when the Rubric was cast they binded their souls with Tzeentch forever. Just look at Eliphas, he came back twice from the dead.

So I think that shouldn't be too hard for the Thousand Sons to do the same. Just find empty armor and bind it with the souls floating around in the Warp. I wouldnt say it would be easy, but not impossible.


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

As i remember it they preform dark rituals in the same way Ahirman did on a willing marine (but on a much smaller scale) and poof! he becomes a rubric marine.

Or take some power armour and insert a captured soul into it


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## Helsreach (Jun 2, 2010)

Well Huron can influence a Sun with the power of his Librarium, Abbadon can drag souls out whenever he wants, as can the Dark Council, I'd say the Thousand Sons can pretty much do the same and that all they need to do is "search out talented minds" turn them into Sorcerers and then use them to bolster the ranks whilst replenishing the rest of their Rubic Marines. Never forget they do have Thrall Sorcerers who get sacraficed for a power boost so some recruitment is definately needed.


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