# Future potential threat of the Tau Empire



## Brobaddon (Jul 14, 2012)

We know that the tau have evolved in mere 5000 years, from stone age technology to the technology that is superior than that of Iom. 

Coupled with their neverending drive and ambition, as well as their unique, fast and mobile style of warfare, which has proven to be more then a match for almost any race out there, as well being one of the best tactically adapted races out there.

They seem to lack in only one thing, and that is the lack of psykers and warp traveling, which makes their conquests probably sluggish compared to other races. 

With Imperium's might crumbling slowly as the time passes, and with their attention elswhere, could the Tau evolve their technology and influence, and become more than just a bothersome fly/nuisance after a tiresome day? 

Im aware that races such as orks, nids or necrons, seem to be a much larger threat, but considering the tiny size and numbers of Tau, they seem to be doing pretty well. 

Do you guys think GW has something more instore for these xenos, or will they always remain the way they are? 

I personally see them as a larger threat than orks, if left alone.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

LordOftheNight said:


> Stuff


Tau tech is not exactly superior, in some areas it is in others its not, i.e. in several books the Tau are able to make clone body parts for anyone who is missing one or for those that don't want a clone limb they can get a sleek and sexy cyber limb (Firewarrior, Fire Caste, Farsight Dex), while the common soldier gets a clunky and barely working cyber limb (of mars and Macherius books, for a couple). So Far the Tau haven't been able to make a titan, but looking at the progress of the battle suits its only a matter of time, the current largest suit being about equal to a Knight, a very mobile knight.

The tau are rapidly advancing, for every step in tech the Tau make the Imperium makes 2 backwards. The main limiting factor of the Empire is that their communications and FTL is slower but more reliable.


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## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

Depends upon their leaders, if most of their leaders are similar to the one that made a deal with Urien Rakarth - I love that piece of fluff - then no, they won't be going anywhere anytime soon, but if they have more Farsights and Shadowsuns then yeah they will grow and become a serious threat. Now they are just highly formidable, but in a few centuries who knows. I haven't read all of the fluff in the Tau codex but have they dealt with Necrons yet? 

I know they have dealt with DE, Imperium, Nids and Orks but not sure about the metalheads.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Loli said:


> necrons


Yeah, a frontier colony world reported a robotic force landing on the world, the colony was never heard from again.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

No.

The lack of far-reaching warp travel (or a reliable alternative) ensures that they will never pose a comprehensive threat.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The lack of far-reaching warp travel (or a reliable alternative) ensures that they will never pose a comprehensive threat.


Nids don't have warp travel, yet they pose a threat, (old/ne)crons don't have warp travel yet they pose a threat. The tau do have warp travel, its more reliable than imperial, I.e. 100 Tau Ships enter the warp, 99 leave, 100 Imperial Ships enter 80 leave, although the Imperial ships will get there first.


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## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> No.
> 
> The lack of far-reaching warp travel (or a reliable alternative) ensures that they will never pose a comprehensive threat.


Doesn't mean they won't develop it, at the rate they developed it what's stopping them creating a method of Warp Travel?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

locustgate said:


> Nids don't have warp travel, yet they pose a threat, (old/ne)crons don't have warp travel yet they pose a threat. The tau do have warp travel, its more reliable than imperial, I.e. 100 Tau Ships enter the warp, 99 leave, 100 Imperial Ships enter 80 leave, although the Imperial ships will get there first.


Nope.

The Hive Fleets manipulate gravity via the Narvhal (and is thus a viable alternative) and the Necrons use the webway (also a viable alternative). The Tau 'skim' the warp because they lack the navigational capabilities and thus are unable to travel distances comparable to the Imperium. This suits them at the moment because their empire is located in a highly dense set of stars and systems therefore it isn't much of an issue, however, it means that they lack the capability to effectively venture into the galaxy at large.

Its not impossible that they could develop an alternative to warp travel, but if the Necrontyr at their technological peak were unable to do so (they were forced to utilise the webway) then I doubt the Tau will be able to.



Loli said:


> Doesn't mean they won't develop it, at the rate they developed it what's stopping them creating a method of Warp Travel?


They have warp travel, but their lack of psykers severely limits it.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Loli said:


> Doesn't mean they won't develop it, at the rate they developed it what's stopping them creating a method of Warp Travel?


First, they have Warp travel. It's limited, however.

Why is it limited? Due to their lack of psychic abilities.

If they could manage something like what the Necrons can do and just go super-duper fast, anyway...maybe.

But back on topic.

I think it's really too early to tell how the Tau will fare against some of the nastier threats in the galaxy (Necrons, Tyranids, Chaos). They've done okay against the Orks...but so far we've seen them struggle pretty hard against the Necrons and Tyranids.

I don't even know what they'd do if they got to the Maelstrom or Eye of Terror.

It all depends on how quickly they can improve their technology, I guess.


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## Brobaddon (Jul 14, 2012)

That is why I stressed their quick technological advance even without psykers and warp travel. Is there a race in 40k that had such huge growth in such a short time? ( Correct me if Im wrong )

I guess not. When you think about it, the Tau are exactly the same as Iom was in the 30k, believing that the galaxy should belong to them. While this is the case with many races, somehow the parallel with Iom fits the best. 

I've only skipped through the latest tau codex, so im not sure if there were any noteable skirmishes btw the Tau and Necrons. 

So far, they had little problems with Orks as Hailene said, and they've managed to stop the advance of 19 IG regiments + 5 sm chapters after the conquest phase. 

The other problem is perhaps their meager numbers. Losing troops is something they cant afford unlike the other races. They are, like the eldar. Or the latter is more numerous, hm...... 

I wouldnt put them ove the necrons and chaos, but with some kind of faster traveling, i'd say they're more dangerous than orks.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

LordOftheNight said:


> Stuff


The tau have only had 1, in the dex, encounter with the necrons, The Tau faired better than the Imperium of man did when they first encountered the nids, they lost a lower number of colonies and managed to actually cause the hive fleet to retreat, without destroying the planet.

Farsight enclave actually poisoned an entire splinter fleet by giving a virus to 10 of the scientists, willingly, that was working on it, 1 survivor survived, although they did kind of lose the planet, it wasn't completely lost just had and extinction level event that would pale in comparison to anything we have had.

About the warp travel the Humans during the dark age of technology made 2 methods of warp navigating, computers and navigators. They chose the navigators because they were more cost effective.

The Tau do have some warp capable allies, the Kroot which just know when to stop when they are near a planet and another psyker race that I forget, they actually move their ships with their minds.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

If the tau ever needed to deal with some of the major threats, I can see them going the route of automatons. They already have their drones. What's to stop the Tau from deploying new designs of Crisis suits which integrate more sophisticated drone controllers, more things like sniper drones, High Speed interceptor drones or whatever is used on the flier, etc etc. They're getting very, very close to having access to a nearly-unlimited army of AI tactical resources.

Also, don't forget that the Tau Empire is just that; it's an Empire. Unlike the IoM, they have no issues with Xenos, and it's only a matter of time before they find a race that is willing to ally with them, and have the psyker gene inside of them. For instance, the Demiurg, from BFG, were part of the Tau Empire, and they had those massive mining ships... they must have had some form of effective propulsion, right?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Xabre said:


> Drone controlled battlesuits


They already have those, look at the Farsight dex, 1 of the leaders is a memory engram, think copy/paste A.I., of Farsights old student.

Sigh. DOES NO ONE READ MY @#@#ing POSTS!


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

locustgate said:


> They already have those, look at the Farsight dex, 1 of the leaders is a memory engram, think copy/paste A.I., of Farsights old student.
> 
> Sigh. DOES NO ONE READ MY @#@#ing POSTS!


 
Switch to decaf, laddie.


I never said Drone-Controlled Battlesuits. I said Drone controllER battlesuits. Ie: more of the 'mark'o' configuration that people use. More like the Sniper Drone units in the heavy choice. A single Tau commanding _squadrons_ of advanced battle drones to bolster their ranks.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Xabre said:


> Switch to decaf, laddie.


Can't stand coffee can't flavor it enough without putting myself in a diabetic coma, had one wouldn't recommend it.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

locustgate said:


> The tau have only had 1, in the dex, encounter with the necrons,


They've had two. The little party at Ka'mais and the fight at Cano'Var. We're not given too many specifics, but neither went well for the Tau.



locustgate said:


> The Tau faired better than the Imperium of man did when they first encountered the nids


When was the first time the Tau met the Tyranids? Was it Hivefleet Gorgon? If so, that Hivefleet (noted to be particularly tiny) ravaged a respectable portion of the Tau empire. The Sha'draig colony is devastated to the point of uselessness. The worlds of Ho'sarn and Roksh are devoured.

It is also noted that the planets between Ka'mais and Ke'lshan are evacuated...I would assume the Tyranids would have eaten them along the way. At least some of them.

Just as a reminder, Hive Fleet Gorgon was, as per the Tyranid codex, "relatively small Hive Fleet". Still the Tau suffered. Also the Tau ran into great difficulties against the Tyranids that had a nasty propensity of becoming immune to Tau weaponry (both on land and in space). It was fortuitous for an Imperial expedition to be hanging around to tip the balance. The forces of Ke'lshan took so many causalities it has only just returned to full strength after 150 years of rebuilding! ((page 13, Tau codex)

The Tyranid codex states that "Hive Fleet Gorgon wrought havoc across a *sizeable swath of the Tau Empire*..."

The Imperium may have lost more worlds (it's unclear. The Tyranid codex states hundreds of systems were consumed by Behemoth, but we are not told how many were Imperial), but I assume that proportionally, the Imperium got off better.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

LordOftheNight said:


> When you think about it, the Tau are exactly the same as Iom was in the 30k, believing that the galaxy should belong to them. While this is the case with many races, somehow the parallel with them fits the best.


Except of course that the IoM controlled vast swaths of the galaxy already, possessed ships capable of traversing great distances quickly and was lead by the most powerful psyker in history.

And of course the IoM still got its ass handed to it.



> So far, they had little problems with Orks as Hailene said, and they've managed to stop the advance of 19 IG regiments + 5 sm chapters after the conquest phase.


The Tau have suffered substantially in their initial meetings with every other major player in the galaxy.

Damocles was stalled after significant gains and was in the process of being reinforced when an actual threat diverted it. I wouldn't really call that a win for the Tau.



> I wouldnt put them ove the necrons and chaos, but with some kind of faster traveling, i'd say they're more dangerous than orks.


My biggest problem with this is that the orks are a genuine threat, on a galactic scale, right now. The Tau are not and may never be. Saying that all they need is faster traveling to become a bigger threat ignores that they are not currently anywhere near as large a threat and ignores the possibility of the orks becoming a bigger threat as well.



Xabre said:


> If the tau ever needed to deal with some of the major threats, I can see them going the route of automatons.


How well did that work out for mankind?



> They're getting very, very close to having access to a nearly-unlimited arseemy of AI tactical resources.


Um, no, they aren't. The Tau are an extremely small blip on the galactic map. There technology is impressive in some areas but woefully handicapped in others. Remember that mankind's golden age included feats of technology far beyond the capabilities of the Tau. What the IoM still clings to from that period often outstrips Tau technology, and that's the barely functioning third hand hand remake of a bastardized copy.



> Unlike the IoM, they have no issues with Xenos, and it's only a matter of time before they find a race that is willing to ally with them, and have the psyker gene inside of them.


There was a time when mankind was accepting of xenos. They aren't anymore, because they learned their lesson. There are far more xenos out there willing and capable of hurting the Tau then there are willing to help them. Just look at the Tau's first interaction with the DE for how well blind trust works out in this galaxy.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

The only person I remember getting friendly with Xenos was Horus, and that didn't WMD well
But the yay are defiantly a _future_ threat, this is chiefly because they have only limited warp travel and experience in space combat
But what they do not know now, in a hundred or so years, they'll have it with the progress their making!
But the reason why tau lose to other races first is it's like picking up a new video game then playing it, you've got to get used to the controls/enemy/learn your limits
It's no diffrent with an alien race- you have to learn what they have, how to kill them, there tactics, that takes time
And the reason why gorgon caused so much damage was that they were incredibly adaptive, they would instansly counter anything the tau threw at them
I believe it even says that if gorgon at struck imperial space, it would have caused much more damage and have been nigh unstoppable as the imperium does not adapt, whereas the tau do, if the tau face an enemy that is pulse resistant, theyll start firing solid shot, which they did
If the imperium faces an enemy that's las resistant, theyll drown then with corpses
The tau may be small now, bit they will adapt, and they will grow, and they will conquer, bit once they have, they have no warp trace which means chaos will not be able to corrupt them like it did the imperials, so the taus crusade will live long and prosper


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I think the Tau are a potential army both in gaming and lore for GW. With the changes to lore, it wouldn't be to farfetched to think they would create a different scenario. They almost reek of change.


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## Brobaddon (Jul 14, 2012)

MEQinc said:


> My biggest problem with this is that the orks are a genuine threat, on a galactic scale, right now. The Tau are not and may never be. Saying that all they need is faster traveling to become a bigger threat ignores that they are not currently anywhere near as large a threat and ignores the possibility of the orks becoming a bigger threat as well.


As far as we know, Orks were always a threat considering their numbers and not just of recently. Unlike the orks though, Tau's style of war is much more deadly to imperium as eldar's, lots of mobility ,firepower, stealth and technology. Besides, saying that there is a chance orks would unite is the same as saying Tau will find a better means of transportation. Doesnt means Orks' case is more realistic. 

As someone said already, If Tau manage to stumble upon someone who'll form an actual alliance with them like Mechanicus and Iom, rather then being assimilated into greater good, and if those xenos prove to be technologically even more capable than tau, giving them access to warp travel or some kind of faster traveling, then the threat level will rapidly increase.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

The Tau would just recruit a race that is good with navigating the warp, they don't necessarily need to do it themselves.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> The Tau would just recruit a race that is good with navigating the warp, they don't necessarily need to do it themselves.


Outside of BL specifically creating a new race as a plot foil for giving the Tau Warp capabilities, I'd have to wonder what Warp-capable race would effectively let themselves be enslaved by a lesser race for their own aggrandizement. Especially when the main virtue of that race to the Tau is their ability to run away faster than the Tau can chase. Everything I've seen about the Kroot and Vespids being subservient to the Greater Good doesn't lend itself to a win-win relationship, more like win-survive.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Demiurg perhaps?, like someone suggested, they could act like the mechanicus does for the Imperium.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Can I just draw everyone's attention to the first word in the tital please- _future_
The Tau will happily invent better warp travel given time, as the OP allows, and can make computers to navigate, you dont need psykers
And it's not like the other races are slaves to the tau, their treated as equals among the tau and do benefit from it


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

kiro the avenger! said:


> Can I just draw everyone's attention to the first word in the tital please- _future_
> The Tau will happily invent better warp travel given time, as the OP allows, and can make computers to navigate, you dont need psykers
> And it's not like the other races are slaves to the tau, their treated as equals among the tau and do benefit from it


Just the tau are more equal.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Their communists, what did you expect?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

kiro the avenger! said:


> The Tau will happily invent better warp travel given time, as the OP allows, and can make computers to navigate, you dont need psykers


Physical technology or computers will never be able to effectively navigate the warp, it is impossible for non-psychic tech/individuals. Mankind at the height of their technological peak (Dark Age of Technology) didn't achieve such tech and neither did the Necrontyr (accepted as the race that have the most advanced technology by far). In order to effectively achieve what I'm calling 'deep' warp travel (which the Imperium utilises) you need psykers, there is no way around it.

The Tau, of course, could always use another xenos species for this purpose. The Nicassar seem to be the closest they have at the moment.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Demiurg


Already part, atleast some

List of known Empire members/frequently employed
Demiurg (unknown, Allies/Mercs/Member)
Galgs - mercenaries
Human
Hrenian
Ji'atrix
Kroot 
Vespid
Morralian 
Nicassar (Nomadic psykers, no FTL)
Ranghon
Tarellian - mercenaries



kiro the avenger! said:


> Their communists, what did you expect?


Actually the Caste System interferes with the whole commy thing.

One thing about the warp I always read that even if a race of psykers that doesn't mean they can navigate the warp, a psyker in the warp is like crack in a crack house, it doesn't end well. The only way a normal psyker can navigate is if they make a pact with a greater demon/chaos god.

Preempting any questions, the tau have had encounters with chaos and the high ranking ethereals may be keeping the worst parts secret. (farsight dex)


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

kiro the avenger! said:


> The only person I remember getting friendly with Xenos was Horus, and that didn't WMD well


I was actually referring to pre-Imperium mankind. The Age of Strife was noted to involve a fair deal of xenos enslavement of man.



> But what they do not know now, in a hundred or so years, they'll have it with the progress their making!


That's not necessarily true. Technological progress isn't linear like that, just because the Tau have made rapid progress so far doesn't mean that they will continue to progress at that rate. Nor does it suggest that warp travel is an inevitable outcome of that progress.



> they have no warp trace which means chaos will not be able to corrupt them like it did the imperials, so the taus crusade will live long and prosper


They have a small warp trace, not none, and they have no knowledge of what Chaos really is. This makes them potentially corruptible, as soon as Chaos decides they need to be.

The Tau will live and prosper for as long as the other races continue to ignore them and not a moment longer.



LordOftheNight said:


> Unlike the orks though, Tau's style of war is much more deadly to imperium as eldar's, lots of mobility ,firepower, stealth and technology.


Yet the Ork style of war has caused far more damage to thr Imperium than the Eldar and Tau combined. All the tech in the world means nothing if you can't bring it to bear.



> Besides, saying that there is a chance orks would unite is the same as saying Tau will find a better means of transportation. Doesnt means Orks' case is more realistic.
> 
> 
> > That was exactly my point. Crediting the Tau as a greater threat than the Orks based on hypotheticals is useless.
> ...


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## Brobaddon (Jul 14, 2012)

> That's not necessarily true. Technological progress isn't linear like that, just because the Tau have made rapid progress so far doesn't mean that they will continue to progress at that rate. Nor does it suggest that warp travel is an inevitable outcome of that progress


Doesn't means it wont continue to progress. Tau have a saying that their technology advances, but not the warfare style. Look at the Riptide battle suit. 



> Yet the Ork style of war has caused far more damage to thr Imperium than the Eldar and Tau combined. All the tech in the world means nothing if you can't bring it to bear.


Neither do superior numbers if you cant use them effectively. Tau have so far demolished orks on just about any battlefield. If you want to use examples as who inflicted more damage, I'd suggest Chaos over Orks. 




> Theres a lot of its in that statement. But let's add a few more. IF the Imperium continues to ignore Tau expansion, IF no major Waaghs start in the region, IF no larger hive fleets move in, IF the Necron presence continues to be negligible and IF no other race shows up to give them problems; then the Tau have the possibility to become a real player


All of the orks threats have been dealt with pretty effectively. Unless you send a Waagh the size of Ghazghkull's one that was sent on Armagedon, it probably wont deal enough damage to Tau. 

Necrons, I doubt they would worry themselves or be interested in Tau at all. Considering that some dynasties even send diplomats to establish diplomatic relations, I could see one of them joining the Tau. 


Im not that of a fan of Tau, but I do think they have a potential, more then people think.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

LordOftheNight said:


> Doesn't means it wont continue to progress. Tau have a saying that their technology advances, but not the warfare style. Look at the Riptide battle suit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps you should read about the war of dakka.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

LordOftheNight said:


> Doesn't means it wont continue to progress. Tau have a saying that their technology advances, but not the warfare style. Look at the Riptide battle suit.


I'm not saying the Tau won't progress. What I'm trying to say is this: the Tau are not currently a threat, their potential to become a threat hinges on a huge number of unknowns and unknowables and therefore we cannot ascribe any sort of certainty or inevitablity to their progress or their success.

As you say, the style doesn't change. I can't think of something more style changing than changing your long distance travel and communications technology.



> If you want to use examples as who inflicted more damage, I'd suggest Chaos over Orks.


I was responding to a claim that the Orks way of war was inferior to the Tau way, Chaos is irrelevant to that.



> All of the orks threats have been dealt with pretty effectively. Unless you send a Waagh the size of Ghazghkull's one that was sent on Armagedon, it probably wont deal enough damage to Tau.


Waagh Ghazghkull would tear through Tau space yet the Imperium didn't even lose a planet to it, that's telling. Charadon (spelling?) is an Ork empire the size of the Tau Empire but barely registers on the Orks numbers, that's telling. The Tau have stalled one, fairly minor, Waagh, any of the Waaghs that have troubled the Imperium in recent memory would've torn huge chunks out of Tau space.



> Necrons, I doubt they would worry themselves or be interested in Tau at all. Considering that some dynasties even send diplomats to establish diplomatic relations, I could see one of them joining the Tau.


Yes, I can totally see one of the most ancient, powerful and technologically advanced races offering to join a fledgling race whose empire barely rates as a footnote. The Necrons wouldn't worry themselves about the Tau, which means that if they awaken on a Tau world, or a number of Tau worlds, they will exterminate them without hesitation.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

MEQinc said:


> Waagh Ghazghkull would tear through Tau space yet the Imperium didn't even lose a planet to it


I want to support MEQ here. I don't think people realize how BIG the fight on Armageddon is. So let's back up a bit and talk about Imperial tithes.

Everyone knows the Administratum levies a certain...tax, on each planet. The amount they take depends on how much a planet can give (in terms of percentage). Basically a peaceful, blossoming planet may expect to see a great majority of its resources taken by the Administratum. On the other hand, war torn planets like Armageddon will have small tithes to compensate for the fact that it's fighting off the largest Ork invasion in all of Imperial history.

So what do the _annual_ tithes from Armageddon look like in terms of Imperial Guard regiments?

*100 million men and a million vehicles*. Per annum. 

The codex states explicitly this is a tiny fraction of the population--Armageddon is spared the harsh tithes of another planet because of the all-consuming war on it.

Think about it. The _leftovers_ of Armageddon's war production is over 100,000,000 men *a year*. What on Earth sort of massive meat grinder must be fought on its surface? How many billions of soldiers are fighting on its surface?

THAT is the threat of Ghazghkull Waaagh! And keep in mind that reinforcements are being poured into Armageddon from around the sector as well.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

they took on gorgon pretty impressive, showing they indeed have some potential, but without vmax>>c they will never be a serious player,
for me they are just a poor attempt to lure manga loving youth in the 40K universe, shiny battle-suits are just not enough, I would like to see them eradicated as an example of how our beloved dark and grim galaxy deals with "the geater good".


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

Technological progress is not linear, IRS exponential, think about it, 20yrs ago, we had no computers or mobile phones, now our phones can send people to the moon and we have made foot ball playing robots!
200yrs before that, we didn't even have a combustion engine and were firing muskets at each other!
Tech breeds more tech, it doesn't hinder it


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

and yet we are no longer able to follow Moore's law with sufficient yield,
and yet we had the turk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turk 
I would be careful stating that tech progress is exponential, certainly taking the full impact on society into account, whilst the progress of the combustion engine has been staggering, it has left us with a serious hangover


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

kiro the avenger! said:


> , 20yrs ago, we had no computers or mobile phones, now our phones


1993....We did have computers and cell phones, not as good of now of course but we did have those. 

The first 'mobile phone' was around during 1918, but that was huge, it wasn't until around 97 that we didn't get pocket sized cell phones. 

The first 'computer' was designed in 2000s BC, but was mostly a calculator, the first 'modern' computer was made in 1941


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

piemelke said:


> they took on gorgon pretty impressive, showing they indeed have some potential, but without vmax>>c they will never be a serious player,
> for me they are just a poor attempt to lure manga loving youth in the 40K universe, shiny battle-suits are just not enough, I would like to see them eradicated as an example of how our beloved dark and grim galaxy deals with "the geater good".


Do they? According to the Farsight fluff the ethereal's are hiding important knowledge from the tau, from what I understand it seems like they have a hidden agenda.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

The first 'mobile phone' that you mentioned was more in line with a tank 
A hand held phone was very recent in the grand scheme
And now your phone has more computing power than NASAs system did when they sent men to the moon
Regardless of the social impacts, the more technology you have, the faster you can develop new one, to an extent
And who says 'deep warp' travel is taus only option?
There's the web way they could use, or they could invent done completly new method the imperium hasn't even though about, maybe they could invent some kind of mass effect relay as they already pull their ships along with a 'gravitic wedge'


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

kiro the avenger! said:


> Tech breeds more tech, it doesn't hinder it


That's why technology has had a smooth, exponential increase the last 6000 years of human history. No regressions. No dark ages. No nothing.

Just like man kind in WH40k. The Imperium is the technological peak of humanity, right?


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

kiro the avenger! said:


> The first 'mobile phone' that you mentioned was more in line with a tank A hand held phone was very recent in the grand scheme
> And now your phone has more computing power than NASAs system did when they sent men to the moon


and yet men where sent to the moon whilst the computation power is now used to post on facebook the color of toilet paper just bought,
you are of course right that technological development creates opportunities for more development etc. but not necessarily at an exponential rate.



kiro the avenger! said:


> And who says 'deep warp' travel is taus only option?
> There's the web way they could use, or they could invent done completly new method the imperium hasn't even though about, maybe they could invent some kind of mass effect relay as they already pull their ships along with a 'gravitic wedge'


the tau could indeed invent some kind of quantum slipstream or what not you are completely right, however I guess the point is that the tau have potential but are yet too small to be significant at a galactic scale and lack some key tech, 
I agree with MecThingy, there are a lot of things that can go wrong and a lot of things that would have to be solved.
As far as I am concerned, burn the xenos manga clones


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

The tau are defiantly no more than a thorn right now, but even the smallest wound may go septic given time 
And I don't think the orks are much of a threat to the imperiums existence, as I believe the second orks out number the imperials, they'll start smashing their own heads, as their well, orks and any thing that can be crumped, will be eventually


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

kiro the avenger! said:


> FTL


Right before the Dem(can't spell) crusade the tau invented an engine that could go near the Speed of Light, but when they encountered the main imperial forces they quickly looted and reversed engineered their modern FTL device, the only thing that prevented them from making one equal to imperial because the enginseers they interrogated had no clue how they worked. (farsight dex)

Sooo yeah imperial ignorance has prevented the tau from developing equivalent warp travel.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

I thought they learned their knowledge of warp travel from some imperial(or possibly ork) wreck they found of in space, at least I'm sure what the old 'dex said
And social factors in technological profession won't really affect the tau due to their caste system where everybody has a place and works to the best of their ability, or they pressumbly *disappear*
So their phones would be launching men to the moon if they could, not that they haven't already passed that stage :grin:


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

kiro the avenger! said:


> stuff


Farsight dex said they looted it from a captured imperial ship during the early days of the D crusade.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

kiro the avenger! said:


> And now your phone has more computing power than NASAs system did when they sent men to the moon


And yet we can no longer send men to the moon.



> And who says 'deep warp' travel is taus only option?
> There's the web way they could use, or they could invent done completly new method the imperium hasn't even though about, maybe they could invent some kind of mass effect relay as they already pull their ships along with a 'gravitic wedge'


The Necrons at the height of their power couldn't come up with a better system than looted webway. Since the Necrons had access to beings with near complete control of the material realm and technology far outstripping anything the Tau have, I interpret that as meaning that there is no other way.



kiro the avenger! said:


> And I don't think the orks are much of a threat to the imperiums existence, as I believe the second orks out number the imperials,


Orks already outnumber humans. There numbers are such that every Orks codex has stated that a unifies Orks force would be unstoppable by anything else in the galaxy. If you think the Tau are more of a threat than that then you clearly don't understand the scope of the Imperium or the Orks.



kiro the avenger! said:


> And social factors in technological profession won't really affect the tau due to their caste system where everybody has a place and works to the best of their ability, or they pressumbly *disappear*


That really helped the USSR beat the States into space didn't it. Caste systems have proven themselves to be unsustainable in modern societies on earth due to the social pressures they exert on their society. The Tau system is already beginning to show signs of failing such as the Farsight Enclaves. It may not be able to hold itself together for long, I certainly wouldn't credit it as a strength.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

kiro the avenger! said:


> And who says 'deep warp' travel is taus only option?There's the web way they could use, or they could invent done completly new method the imperium hasn't even though about, maybe they could invent some kind of mass effect relay as they already pull their ships along with a 'gravitic wedge'


The webway isn't a viable option. It is a broken, incomplete sub-realm and is infested with various warp-beasts, xenos, Eldar kin and Necrons. The Tau would also have no means by which to effectively navigate it. 

Another method of travel (other than warp travel) is plausible. However, as _MEQ_ and myself have already said, the Necrons were unable to develop such a method despite them being the most technological advanced faction by far and having had the patronage of the C'tan. This suggests that there is no viable option other than warp travel for the Tau. 



kiro the avenger! said:


> And I don't think the orks are much of a threat to the imperiums existence, as I believe the second orks out number the imperials, they'll start smashing their own heads, as their well, orks and any thing that can be crumped, will be eventually


The Greenskins have always been, are, and will always be a significant threat to the Imperium. Look at The Beast's Waaagh for example.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

actually it is not unreasonable to assume that the tau will downgrade some of their tech after further expansion, also here the man on the moon serves as a good metaphor, the space shuttle, technologically highly "advanced", is no longer used, in stead robust cheap (and old) sovjet tech is used mainly to shoot us into space, although this is not the optimal technical solution it serves as a good solution at a system level.
Maybe far stretched but the space shuttle could be perceived as the tau solution, which is technically superb, however the Mechanicus solution, the old russian stuff, is more beneficial if the objective covers more than just the technical performance but also global cost including efficiency, logistics...
I would argue that if the tau empire expands further and logistics becomes increasingly important (I do not think it is fair to assume a homogenous resource density) it might be more interesting to downscale some of the tech, since I can imagine that most of the tech advanced solutions require very specific resources, e.g. rare earth elements. 
e.g. the lasgun might come close to the mathematical optimum to supply IG with, certainly when fighting organic enemies.
This might no longer hold for e.g. necrons, if so, the mechanicus will do the math and adapt accordingly.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

The Tau Empire is an interesting beaast in the geenral scheme of the Warhammer 40k universe; both in how they play on Table Top and how their Fictional story has developed. They remind me of Nazi Germany mixed with some Chinese Communism.

From a Historical stand-point the Tau Empire is a lot like the Third Reich of Germany. They developed quickly, revolutionlised their indsutry, agriculture, goverment, and military industrial complex fairly quickly. Add a touch of Socialism and Religion in there and you get the modern Tau goverment. It also is very territory hungry; expanionists if you will. Like hitler and his Third Riech the Tau are great Diplomats, and know when to use words, and when to use the sword to acheive their colonial ends. For the moment it is working for the Tau....but good things never last forever. They also resemble the Communistic goverment of China in the sense that they are progressively driving themselves to new feats of technology in order to better the lives of their people. they do also suffer from the occasional "delusional" politicans and commanders within their armed forces. Also, like Nazi Germany, they use _Blitzkrieg _tactics mixed with their mobile suits (BattleCrisis Suits) to hit-and-run on their enemies. As many of you know they avoid direct and CQC style of warefare. Thus they use better equipted technology against their enemies who often are not as advanced, but have the advantage of numbers. 

On the Ficitonal side of things they remind me of Star Trek, and the Federation. The "Prime Directive" as it is know states the progressive development of the betterment of the common man's lives. To that end the Tau have done so, and developed what we could only descirbe as "Warp Technology" admist the crazy idea's of "Warp Travel." Unlike Star Trek, which is usually much quicker, the Tau take time to reach their end objective, but their are much safer in their application of the core technology than the Imperium of Man. They also are similar to Star Trek in the fact they rely more on their technology than their brute force or numbers. Tau technology, lets be honest, is second only to Necrons who really hold the edge in their mystical weapons. 

Now what does this have to do with enemies you ask? Simply put the Tau are one big, fat, Blue technology. Eventually a race, known or unknown, will rise to make eternal war upon them as Choas does upon the IoM. Also all is not well within the Tau Empire, and I fear rebellions will start to rise up once the Tau become less "accepting" of xeno's species. Eventually GW will bring the Tau into conflict with someone again; the question is who?


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

MEQinc said:


> And yet we can no longer send men to the moon.
> 
> 
> 
> The Necrons at the height of their power couldn't come up with a better system than looted webway. Since the Necrons had access to beings with near complete control of the material realm and technology far outstripping anything the Tau have, I interpret that as meaning that there is no other way.


There's a difference between not wanting to send men to the moon and not being about to. Aside from scientific research and proving that someone is superior what reason do we have to return to the moon?

Last time I checked the necrons were busy with the whole not dying and fighting a war to develop other FTL travel methods. If they would have won the war in heaven without becoming machines it's totally possible they would have developed a FTL system.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Reaper45 said:


> There's a difference between not wanting to send men to the moon and not being about to.


There is. And at this moment mankind does not possess any operational craft capable of reaching the moon. 



> Aside from scientific research and proving that someone is superior what reason do we have to return to the moon?


Exactly! Tech does not develop linearly, nor is it always progressing, it responds to the needs of the society creating it. We did not develop space flight as a natural progression of our tech, we developed it because of Cold War posturing. We have not maintained our space flight capabilities, despite furthering the tech involved in them, because it was no longer necessary. 



> Last time I checked the necrons were busy with the whole not dying and fighting a war to develop other FTL travel methods. If they would have won the war in heaven without becoming machines it's totally possible they would have developed a FTL system.


You don't think developing a FTL system that wasn't dependent on the enemy would've been a big priority during their war? They developed a huge number of highly advanced technologies during this period, remember that the War in Heaven lasted a long time, but couldn't be find a better transport option. Just look at our own history to see the way war often spurs rapid technological development. Further, their society has continued to develop technologically since they became machines and they still haven't found a better option than temporarily high jacking their mortal enemies transportation system.


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## kiro the avenger! (Nov 8, 2010)

We dont go to the moon right now because theres no point, so we didn't bother maintaining the craft.
We are however developing new technology such as reaching mars or colonising the moon, and when they are ready, we will get back on the bandwagon, so space technology hasn't stopped now, the practical has just taken a breather


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

LordOftheNight said:


> That is why I stressed their quick technological advance even without psykers and warp travel. Is there a race in 40k that had such huge growth in such a short time? ( Correct me if Im wrong )


Potentially, Humanity.

In all honesty, we know very little about human advancement prior to the Age of Strife. The theme of the Dark Age of Technology lets us know that this was the apex of human technological advancement - a period when humans almost certainly surpassed the Tau (just on the basis of what is hinted at). What made that time period truly important, though, was the discovery of the Navigator Gene, which allowed humans to use the Warp.

The time period before that is the one we need to look at in terms of humans being compared to the Tau. Unfortunately, that's an age we know next to nothing about. Humans circa M4 (using our five thousand year period from 2,000 B.C. to 3,000 A.D.) might have been akin to savages when compared to humans of the Dark Age of Technology, and thus comparing them to the Tau is laughable. Or, it could be said they were very much comparable because starships that only skim the Warp, hover vehicles, jet fighters, and advanced exo-suit technology was a joke compared to fully-functional STC technology, artificial intelligences, various types of mass-produced, artificial servants and warriors, etc.

Ironically, even though they are de-facto enemies of the Imperium of Man, one could plausibly argue that the small size of their empire, coupled with the fact that humanity attracts all the big enemies, means that the Tau are, unintentionally, a "protectorate" of the Imperium. Absent the Imperium, it's doubtful the Tau would have ever gotten a chance to develop as they did. For example, absent the Imperium, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that a random Ork fleet gallivanting around could have ended them while they were still sharpening sticks as weapons.



> As someone said already, If Tau manage to stumble upon someone who'll form an actual alliance with them like Mechanicus and Iom, rather then being assimilated into greater good, and if those xenos prove to be technologically even more capable than tau, giving them access to warp travel or some kind of faster traveling, then the threat level will rapidly increase.


I think that's easier said than done, though. The fact that a race is psychic doesn't mean that they'd also have the Navigator Gene. Heck, it doesn't mean they'd even have the inclination to travel through the Warp. I don't think it's a coincidence that there are only a few species that are galactic in scope, just as I don't think it's a coincidence that the Tau haven't yet found a species willing to be their suppliers of Navigators.


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