# Goblin doubts



## Cleitus_the_Black (Jun 8, 2009)

Hi everyone. New player to fantasy with fairly standard "what army?" type of post.
I play Chaos Marines in 40K, and in Fantasy I want to play a very different type of army (which is too bad because Chaos warriors look pretty bad ass IMO). So, I've basically narrowed it down to Orcs and Goblins or Skaven for my first army, so I can horde it up like nobody's business.
The problem is, I get a little bit competitive, and have a terrible habit of failing armour saves and other important rolls, and from what I have read all goblin armies (which is my first choice right now) are not a great army for people who want to win.

I will not be entering tournaments or anything like that, so I'm not looking for the best possible cheesey army or anything, I am just wondering if it is possible to run all goblin (night goblin at first thanks to the handy starter set) armies that can get the job done, or if Skaven are any better for that. Or if there is a different horde army that is good that I haven't even considered!

Thanks for reading, hopefully someone out there can give me good news!


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## Mutants_ho! (Jul 3, 2008)

Well to tell you the truth Night Goblins can be VERY competitive, but you need to know how to use them, AND have a good army list. Some armies (VC's ...) can be played and do well with any army list pretty much, not so with Goblins/Night Goblins.

A competitive (so basically cheesey) goblin list would have 8! bolt throwers and 10-20 fanatics. This is the list I use at tournaments:

Goblin Warboss: 152 pts
-Martog's Best Basha
-LA/En. Shield
-Warboss Umm's Best Boss 'At
-Bigged's Kickin' Boots

Goblin Big Boss: 92 pts
-Big Red Banner
-LA

Goblin Suicide Bomber (Big Boss): 97 pts
-Wollopa's One Hit Wunda
-Brimstone Baubble
-Wolf

Night Goblin Shaman: 110 pts
-2x Dispel Scroll

Night Goblins (35): 235 pts
-Nets
-FC
-3x Fanatics

(2) NGs (30): 177 pts (354 pts)
-3x Fanatics
-Standard, Musician

(2) NGs (30): 155 pts (310 pts)
-3x Fanatics
-Musician

(4x) Goblin Spear Chukka (2): 70 pts (280 pts)

Giant: 205 pts
Giant: 205 pts

My win/loss is a positive 83-ish% with this list .

So yes, they are viable in competitive and friendly environments, BUT to be truely strong they have to be a bit stream-lined, leaving out alot of fun options, such as pump wagons, and squigs.

They also fare badly against demons.

Now don't believe they are an upper tier army just because of my ramblings, I'd say they are a second tier army, IF used right. Not many can do this. Oh, and you need to be lucky too, the dice are a major part of the army as well.

If you really want a competitive army I'd go Skaven. I'm just pointing out they can do well.


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

Don't forget Empire, too, Cleitus. They're technically a Horde army, but they are fairly well rounded in Combat. They've got a whole slew of troop choices to boot, from durable lowly Militia to noble Knights to disciplined ranks of Swordsmen to the voracious assault of Great Swords to Cannons to Steam Tanks... they've got lots to choose from!


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## Cleitus_the_Black (Jun 8, 2009)

Hmm. Skaven was my first choice for fantasy, but the 2 pt diff between clanrats and goblins made me want goblins, for even MORE horde! But I do want options for a decent army, and if there's only really one build for goblins to do well, I think I will move on to Skaven, due to the awesome options they have (warp-everything). And how cheap slaves are, and shooting into combat makes me really happy.

I would think about empire but at 6 pts a model, they are less horde-ish, and I want to play not-humans. Although empire units look really good and they have a lot of options, just not quite what I'm looking for.

Thanks for your responses guys!


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## Jester12 (Jun 18, 2009)

My skaven have about 250 models in 2250 point list. If you want horde skaven is the only way to go. Goblins can be very hordey but they do not get the benefits that the skaven do with their special rules. Plus new skaven book is rumored to be out very soon hopefully november and new armies and new models is always fun.


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## Cleitus_the_Black (Jun 8, 2009)

I have been waffling between Skaven and Empire (because it would be cool to play "good guys") but I think Skaven has won out. Better Batallion box, rules for hording, plus the empire is only sort of horde. While the empire has lots of choices, skaven has more than goblins at least, and they are all built around the horde idea. Now to go buy me some rat men...


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## Jester12 (Jun 18, 2009)

Good luck with them. The batallion is definately a deal. They are probably going to make new clanrats but you're going to need to use some as slaves anyways and the plague monks and rat ogres are still kinda new so they probably are no going to redo them. Anyways I'm sure you'll enjoy them and if you have any questions I've been playing skaven for about 10 years now so feel free to pm me.


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## Cleitus_the_Black (Jun 8, 2009)

Damn that's very kind. I will definitely do that. I hope to grab the battalion in the next week or two and start playing some small games, and move on from there! Honestly, Fantasy has always drawn me more than 40k, so it's about time I started to play


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

Good choice on Skaven, they're lots of fun. Models are nice, lots of horde-ing, and cool technology too. Well picked!


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## LiamMeowFace (Jan 18, 2009)

I play O&G's but when the new skaven come out if they replace the horrible plastic they have now ill do them


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## Cleitus_the_Black (Jun 8, 2009)

The prospect of new Skaven book and models is enticing I must admit.


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

If I can be convinced to start a new Fantasy army; it'll be skaven.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

The best thing about Skaven if your bad with armour saves is that it doesn't matter.
They get very little armour and there is always more where they came from.
You might find painting a horde army a bit of a shock after a small elite force like marines though.


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## Jester12 (Jun 18, 2009)

neilbatte said:


> The best thing about Skaven if your bad with armour saves is that it doesn't matter.
> They get very little armour and there is always more where they came from.
> You might find painting a horde army a bit of a shock after a small elite force like marines though.


What!?:shok: You have a unit that for 5 points a model comes with a 4+ armor save in close combat. Against str 5 they still have an armor save. That's amazing for a standard stat line unit for 5 pts a model. I do agree however that painting a horde army is rough. I myself made the mistake of wanting to play so much I got ahead of my painting and looking at 100 unpainted models when you've already done 100 can be unmotivating. My suggestion is paint it when you get it and dont buy more till what you have is painted even if it's a quick and simple paint job. Either that or invest in the new spray gun :good: or go with the classic plain grey color scheme I'm currently using for my lizardmen.


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## Cleitus_the_Black (Jun 8, 2009)

Haha painting has been a problem of mine, even with CSM, but I am coming up with a pretty simple scheme that I like the thought of, and I think painting as I buy is a great idea. I have a box of klanratten and will be buying the battalion, but after that no more (for $$'s sake really), so I can focus on what I've got. Also, I'm looking forward to seeing some new Skaven stuff. Kind of exciting. Though I asked the guy at my LGS if he knew anything, and he said the September sale list or whatever it is he gets from GW didn't say anything about Skaven. Fingers crossed for October (just in time for the birthday!)
And yeah my thinking has been if the units are 5 points a model, failing saves is no big deal. Not too long ago I failed 7 out of 7 3+ saves on berzerkers (21 pts each). Needless to say, the vein was popping!


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