# Thousand Sons vs Orks. Help needed



## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Ok gents, I am going up against an Ork list shortly with my Tsons and I need all the advice I can get. Game point size is 1850 with a portion of the list being fixed and unchangeable. Here is the fixed portion of the Ork list

H.Q
Warboss, warbike, power klaw, cybork body 
135 points

Troop
30 Shoota boyz, rokkits, nob, power klaw 
245 points

12 Slugga boyz, nob, power klaw, trukk with rokkit, grot riggers, reinforced ram 
157 points

20 Slugga boyz, nob, power klaw
155 points

12 Slugga boyz, nob, power klaw, trukk with rokkit, grot riggers, reinforced ram 
157 points

20 Slugga boyz, nob, power klaw 
155 points

Fast Attack
2 Rokkit buggy’s, 2 grot riggers 
80 points

Heavy Support
Battle Wagon, zzap gun, 2 rokkits, grot riggers, armour plates, reinforced ram 

Grand Total 1229

There will also be a 15 model Loota squad at the least and some other stuff to bring it to 1850. No cans or dreads, possibly zzap batteries and such, definitely a couple rokkit buggies as well.




Here is my fixed portion that CANNOT be changed.

1 Daemon Prince @ 205 Pts
Wings; Mark of Tzeentch; Warptime (x1); Wind of Chaos (x1)

9 Thousand Sons @ 317 Pts
1 Sorcerer with Melta Bombs; Doombolt
1 Rhino

9 Thousand Sons @ 317 Pts
1 Sorcerer with Melta Bombs; Doombolt
1 Rhino

9 Chaos Marines @ 255 Pts
Plasmagun (x2); Icon of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Champion with Power Weapon; Melta Bombs; 

1 Predator @ 100 Pts
Autocannon; 2 x Heavy Bolter Sponsons; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

Total Roster Cost: 1194



You can see just how badly I will be outnumbered by this army and I need some input on the best way to win. I will be adding 7 Havocs w/4 heavy bolters and a Defiler but I am uncertain what else to add. I am thinking of a 10 man berzerker squad and maybe a 5 man raptor squad with dual flamers or a greater daemon. I can also add in a Slaanesh Sorcerer with Lash to push units back. I just dont know for sure so I will welcome all tips and advice you guys give.


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

Some thoughts on your "unchangable portion" drop Doom Bolt for Winds of Chaos. Drop the Plasma Guns for Flamers. I also question why you're taking an Icon of Tzeentch in this case. 

The extra stuff doesn't sound bad, a Defiler can drop some serious Pie-Plate death out. But I think you might want to swap your Havocs for a Full strength squad of Noise Marines. They are biult to be troop rakers and excel at it (2 shots on the move at 24" or 3 shots standing still at 24"). Plus it could give you an excuse to take a Lash sorcerer to keep some of the nasties back a bit more, or push them together to aid the Defiler. 

Dropping the Havocs for the Noise Marines could also free up a slot for another Dakka Pred.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Revelations said:


> Some thoughts on your "unchangable portion" drop Doom Bolt for Winds of Chaos. Drop the Plasma Guns for Flamers. I also question why you're taking an Icon of Tzeentch in this case.


I'm fairly sure that the "unchangeable portion" is, in fact, unchangeable for the purposes of his game coming up.



The Wraithlord said:


> You can see just how badly I will be outnumbered by this army and I need some input on the best way to win. I will be adding 7 Havocs w/4 heavy bolters and a Defiler but I am uncertain what else to add. I am thinking of a 10 man berzerker squad and maybe a 5 man raptor squad with dual flamers or a greater daemon. I can also add in a Slaanesh Sorcerer with Lash to push units back. I just dont know for sure so I will welcome all tips and advice you guys give.


*8 Chaos Space Marine Havocs*
- 4 Heavy bolters
- 4 with bolters, bolt pistols and close combat weapons

This unit should serve you well. Try to have one extra body per heavy weapon in your Havoc Squads.

A Defiler would be absolutely great. I suggest that you equip it as follows:

*Defiler*
- Reaper Autocannon
- Heavy Flamer
- Battle cannon
- Dreadnought close combat weapons
- Daemonic Possession
Pts: 150

It really doesn't need to be changed any from how it comes in the Codex. The battle cannon should come in very handy for thinning out those big units of Orks, while the Reaper Autocannon gives you a reliable weapon for taking out those low AV vehicles like buggies and trukks. Finally, the heavy flamer allows you to get in close and fry a whole bunch of greenskins before getting stuck in. A note on close combat, though. Orks tend toward power klaws in their large units. It is very possible that your Defiler will charge into combat, kill an Ork or two and then be taken apart. Because of this I strongly suggest that you do everything in your power to avoid close combat with Ork units until they're only very few in number (of if they lack a power klaw).

As for other units, your Raptor idea is ace. The only thing I'd alter is making the unit at least 6 strong, preferably 8 so that you can commit to close combat and still cause a large number of causalities. Since you're going with a Thousand Son theme I'd suggest staying away from any Icon but that of Tzeentch, though to be honest it'll likely become more of a liability than anything else, so an Iconless unit may very well be the way to go.

The Lash Sorcerer is a grand idea. Consider giving him a Familiar and Wind of Chaos, or, god forbid, Gift of Chaos so you can start turning Nobs and the like into Chaos Spawn.

Do your best to stay far away from a Greater Daemon. Lootas and the like will be just itching to blow that thing to pieces. Better to give them less easy targets, I'd think.

As for tactics, here's my suggestion. Stay back. Stay far, far away. Use your Thousand Sons' ability to move and still fire at full range. Deploy back from the edge of your deployment zone, around 4" away from it. As the Orks advance with their large units of Boyz, back away slowly while firing your bolters at them, doing your best to maintain an approximately 20"-22" gap between your front line and the Orks on foot.

As for the fast moving Trukks, do your best to ensure that they charge the units that you want them to and not your expensive Thousand Sons (who should be shooting as much as possible). Try to intercept them with units like Raptors, Khorne Berserkers, even your Chaos Space Marine Squad. The important thing is to ensure that your main shooters are able to keep on punishing your foes until they're close enough to counter charge.

I hope this helps a little and good luck!

Katie D


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Good points so far.

To use lash vs hordes, don't just use it to send units away. Consider bringing them closer, depending on the situation.

Often, by bringing a unit closer to your lines, you are able to focus fire it and kill it with its friends unable to help. It allows you to have your raptors jump and flame it without worrying too much about a second unit coming in and charging them, and so on. 

Perhaps most importantly, it gets your weapons working to maximum effect straight away. You have a hell of a lot of orks to kill, so get started! Lashing them forwards means you can start flaming and rapid firing on turn 2 at the latest.

On the other hand if there are too many things nearby to kill in one go, that's the time to lash something away. Probably best to lash the unit that's further off, if there is any real difference, as that's the one that's most likely to then be out of charge range in its turn.

Take first turn if you get the chance by the way. This is a game that's unlikely to be decided by who can sprint to an objective on turn 6. Every kill counts right from the start. People do sometimes suggest that going second allows opponents to come close and wander into range and stuff, but let them do that for your second turn shooting phase. You may as well have shot a few of them dead already by then.

Funny thing happened the last time a guy won the roll for 1st turn and let me go first. It was at a tournament and there was quite a lot of noise, and this guy spoke incredibly quietly. I didn't hear him. We just sat there looking at each other for at least a minute or two, each waiting for the other guy to start moving things. It was my Tau against dark angels with quite a few guns on either side and first turn was clearly a big advantage. I never would have thought he'd give it away.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Yeah I think I will have to go with the Lash sorc for sure along with the defiler and havocs, if I can fit it all that is. problem is that I have nothing in this list that can take out the battlewagon before it drops the payload of 20 screaming orks on me.


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## Triumph Of Man (Dec 27, 2007)

> Troop
> 30 Shoota boyz, rokkits, nob, power klaw
> 245 points


You probably don't care, but for consistency's sake I'll just point out that having a Klaw on the Nob is illegal (and GW being GW, I strongly doubt it's been FAQ'd, mostly because there won't be a new FAQ before 2020).


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

Triumph Of Man said:


> You probably don't care, but for consistency's sake I'll just point out that having a Klaw on the Nob is illegal (and GW being GW, I strongly doubt it's been FAQ'd, mostly because there won't be a new FAQ before 2020).


While not an "official FAQ", a buddy of mine participates on Warseer, and one of their members got a response from GW saying it was an oversight. http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139358 But I guess you still have to wait for the FAQ. Soon!!!


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

Triumph Of Man said:


> You probably don't care, but for consistency's sake I'll just point out that having a Klaw on the Nob is illegal (and GW being GW, I strongly doubt it's been FAQ'd, mostly because there won't be a new FAQ before 2020).


Nope not illegal White Dwarf US issue 336 has a shoota boy squad lead by Nob with PK. THe creator of the ork codex is the one playing the army. 

Anyway on to the topic. If he has a loota squad destroy it. Raptors or lash it and bring it close to blast it to pieces. I use my lootas to sit back and wipe out whole units at a time. 

Try to stay atleast 18 inches away as that is the max range of ork shoota so you can out distantance shoot him. zzap batteries don't even worry about those they aren't as effective as they use to be. 

He will try to hit you with the fast stuff and pound your army with long range then time the battle wagon arrival with the rest of the boys. This is a common ork tactic. If you can single out a unit and blast it to pieces then move on to the next one. 

I would say if lootas are there take them out first. Then the fast stuff especially the boss before he charges. I wouldn't worry about the BW to much as 20 orks aren't that big of a threat they are more than likely a unit used to tie up something and have the Nob PK things.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Yeah I am planning to direct the Predator, Havocs, and if needed, the Defiler at killing the Lootas the first chance I get.


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