# Why don't people use grenades?



## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

I mean these are perfectly viable, there easy to model on. Wouldnt you like your seargeant to do a strength eight attack on the backside of a vehicle. Why does everyone seem to forget?


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Because the Krak grenades rarely do anything anyways. As I recall, they're generally on units you don't want assaulting vehicles.


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## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

Personally, I model them onto all of my guys on the off chance that I might add grenades to my guys' wargear. However, unless your going up against an all vehicle force for offensive grenades or expecting to have alot of close combat for defensive and some offensive grenades, the grenades are simply a waste of points.

edit: darn, ninja'd. For example, squads of nameless soldiers. However, I gave my Lord Commissar melta bombs, and he took out a land raider.


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## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

Nave Senrag said:


> Personally, I model them onto all of my guys on the off chance that I might add grenades to my guys' wargear. However, unless your going up against an all vehicle force for offensive grenades or expecting to have alot of close combat for defensive and some offensive grenades, the grenades are simply a waste of points.
> 
> edit: darn, ninja'd. For example, squads of nameless soldiers. However, I gave my Lord Commissar melta bombs, and he took out a land raider.


The Grenades are free


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## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

If they are free, then I see absolutely no reason not to take them, other then the fact that it is an extra thing to remember.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

Basic Wargear...

Kraks are next to useless. Its only Meltabombs that have any use.

SGMAlice


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Well, the way I see it, the unit most likely to get in close combat with such a squad is most likely a walker, which would use front armor. Movement is also an issue for making those grenade hit's count.

But I still see your point, the only thing krak grenades won't bother is a LR. So even a basic tac squad armed with only a flamer can bring down most vehicles, assuming they can get in CC with it.


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## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

Frag - Only ever used to assault into cover. pointless as most men have equal or higher strength (except guard and even than S4 on armour means you need 6's)
Krak - Nice if they are free and you are up against a Walker but otherwise not used that much. Much easiyer to blow the thing up at a distance.
Melta - Nice but they do cost pts and often only the sergeant cna have one and he's the one with the Powerfist most of the time so it's pointless.

Personly i only use Melta bombs on my Vets(with Hawker) and otherwise only every give it to my marines who don't have an anti-tank weapon or i have a few spear points.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

I use Melta Bombs ALL the time. its staple for me on my Space wolf Scouts. BEL them and melta stick a tank, boom


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## IanC (Sep 3, 2010)

Honestly? I forget I have them!


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

jaws900 said:


> Much easiyer to blow the thing up at a distance.


And safer too. While it is feasible (NOT VIABLE) to use Krak grenades, the situations to use them rarely materialise. Most units that carry them also tend to have better guns, which are best used at a longer range, and they are better off avoiding CC.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I find myself constantly using both frag and krak grenades. In the case of the former, it's because we play with enough terrain on the table, and there's just a simple inevitability that you're going to have to shake something out of cover. A unit of pretty much anything hunkered down in a building can be hard to remove short of going in there and beating them over the head with something, and in a lot of cases, striking in initiative order is quite preferable to them simply going first because you don't have frags. It doesn't help you against things like Eldar or the odd Noise Marine, but most things that have frags in the game are I3 or I4, and most things in general in the game are I3 or I4. Getting your attacks in, rather than taking casualties first, is pretty important, I think.

As for krak grenades, I find myself using them simply because they're there. Does my sergeant have a power fist to deal with that dreadnought? You bet. But I'll still roll the krak grenades for the rest of the squad, because sometimes my power fist whiffs, and the krak grenades will manage to at least slow the dreadnought down for a round of combat. In other cases, I'll roll the krak grenades against vehicles just to be sure that I get it. A power fist is all well and good, but if you roll poorly on the damage table, you're not actually accomplishing that much. Kraks are only two strength lower than a Space Marine's power fist, and you get a lot more attacks (a full squad will throw nine while the sergeant uses his fist with three attacks, since you always are charging the vehicle). You should get a couple good hits in there, and that can often be the difference between destroying the vehicle and merely shaking or stunning it.

Meltabombs are the one thing I tend to leave behind these days. The preponderance of meltaguns in a given army these days, combined with the sergeants with power fists, makes the meltabombs feel like sort of an afterthought. I'll occasionally give them to a Chaplain or something because I don't have anything better to do with 5 points, but I often find they're just never used. I suppose if there were more land raiders running around locally, I might rethink my position on that, since meltaguns can miss and power fists still need sixes to glance a land raider... but that's really the only instance where you need the bombs.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

yeah as Horus has stated. its much better to just roll the kraks to make sure you get some damage off on a vehicle, rather then rely on JUST the PF in your squads.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

search116 said:


> I mean these are perfectly viable, there easy to model on. Wouldnt you like your seargeant to do a strength eight attack on the backside of a vehicle. Why does everyone seem to forget?


well the fact there *not* strength 8 is a turn off, and the fact my guardsmen have to pay points for them and the fact I now have to get guardsmen in close combat with a vehicle that can't attack me back.

I'd rather just pay the points for a lascannon.


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## The Thunder of KayVaan (Jun 19, 2009)

I'll only take them if there are free, but my friend (plays black templars) hates the fact that he keeps forgetting to take them. It sorta goes like this...

"Armoured sentinel! you've lost your main gun! now charge those black templar that have no power fists or krak grenades!" - me

"FUUUU-" - friend

He has sworn to take krak grenades whenever i field my sentinels now  so i make him waste points in my opinion.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Krak Grenades are nice, but you certainly need to know what you're doing if you plan on paying for them.
A squad of Marines can use them to great effect, only a fool would disregard them as useless, they are quite powerful in reality against most vehicles (not many vehicles have rear armour greater than 10).

Frag Grenades are, well, just there.
Most of the time it's not even an option, you just have them.
But for those armies that don't have them automatically, you're a fool if you don't at least consider them.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

My view on grenades is such:

I always remember all the rules for grenades (I remember my units have them too) and frag grenades are always used when applicable.

Krak grenades are more useless to me since they require me to assault a vehicle. Now the people I play against are not going to be stupid enough to park a worthy enough vehicle like a predator within 12 inches of a squad. 

I never take melta bombs unless the troops in question can outflank. This is because I prefer the range of my poor man's preds, devvies, missile launchers, vindicators and other heavy weapons. Not too struck on melta weapons to be honest.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Units that actually have to pay for grenades rarely need them and they are generally overpriced (excepting melta bombs on characters or other individuals.)

For example, ork boyz are 6 points each, and can all have assault grenades for 1 point per model, which significantly increases the cost of the unit. This expensive upgrade gives the unit the ability to strike at all of initiative 3 on the charge, which is simo with guard and after everyone but tau. So, pretty much completely useless.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Or for the same boys buy a trukk with a stickbomb chukka for 5 points and cover the 12 man unit as it assaults. Orks do not have great armour so any opponent they get to strike equally or first to instead of last is good news.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Stephen_Newman said:


> Or for the same boys buy a trukk with a stickbomb chukka for 5 points and cover the 12 man unit as it assaults. Orks do not have great armour so any opponent they get to strike equally or first to instead of last is good news.


This, it's cheaper and move effective really.
I would only actually give Stikkbombs to a Nob squad, since they I4 on the charge, meaning they're hitting that 'average Initiative'.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

I play Nids. 'Nuff said


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> I play Nids. 'Nuff said


Hey, they HAVE grenades.
Venomthropes can allow Termagants to use S4 Defensive Grenades against vehicles :>


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## Dermon Caffran (Jul 20, 2010)

all my vets av got the demolitions doctrine partly for fluff paetlt cos meltas are well handy


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## IanC (Sep 3, 2010)

I remembered to use my grenades today! Took out a Vindicator in close combat with 3 Scout bikers thanks to their krak grenades 

1 glancing hit, 1 penetrating, penetrating got a 6 on the damage table, KABOOM! (and the bikers survived... till they got took out by his Land Raider on the next turn)


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Grenades cost points and well... unless the squad REALLY needs them because all they do is assault then there is really no point in tossing points away. Yes it may be 5 points per squad but that easily becomes 15 point which can be put elsewhere. 40k has become an armour and anti-armor game so the more LC's you can put on the board is much better then making sure your 5 man assault squad has bombs for the rare chance they will be assaulting a vehicle.


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## IanC (Sep 3, 2010)

Space Marines get Frag and Krak for free. IG get Frag for free.

If they are free you might as well try to use them, right?


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but don't grenades hit the armor facing your touching. If so it makes perfect sense for most opponents to take 3+ attacks at strength 4 against AV10 then 1 attack that hits a possible AV13-14 at strength 6. Also do to the limitations on grenades use in CC they are next to useless against walkers. Sorry if this has already been brought up but I didn't have enough time to read the whole thread.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> Not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but don't grenades hit the armor facing your touching. If so it makes perfect sense for most opponents to take 3+ attacks at strength 4 against AV10 then 1 attack that hits a possible AV13-14 at strength 6. Also do to the limitations on grenades use in CC they are next to useless against walkers. Sorry if this has already been brought up but I didn't have enough time to read the whole thread.


No, actually, they count as a single melee attack per grenade, so they hit the back unless you're getting munched by a walker.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Space Marines vs Tau Vehicles...

Krak is pretty useful then


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## IanC (Sep 3, 2010)

Masked Jackal said:


> No, actually, they count as a single melee attack per grenade, so they hit the back unless you're getting munched by a walker.


It represents finding a hatch or a open gun point and chucking the grenade in it, right?


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## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

IanC said:


> It represents finding a hatch or a open gun point and chucking the grenade in it, right?


That's fucking bad-assed. 

That is all.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

IanC said:


> It represents finding a hatch or a open gun point and chucking the grenade in it, right?


Yep.

Also, fuck messages that are longer than 10 characters.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Krak grenades are kinda weird; they're an implosive grenade.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Krak_grenade

However, how do you use them against a vehicle?

Do they have an adhesive substance to stick to it?
Do they have a magnetic clamp to stay attached?
Do they expect the user to hold it up to the vehicle while it explodes?
Do they explode on contact, so you just throw them at short range?


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## Daemonetteboobs (May 31, 2010)

I loathe people remembering they have krak grenades, they'll usually end up stunning a vehicle that you were sure would be fine for the next turn. Also, Winterous, I think they're used much like in Halo when a spartan smashes a grenade into a tank so hard that it indents itself into the armor.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Daemonetteboobs said:


> Also, Winterous, I think they're used much like in Halo when a spartan smashes a grenade into a tank so hard that it indents itself into the armor.


Doesn't work logically.
IG can't do that, Space Marines probably couldn't do it either, unless they had like 20 seconds to keep punching away.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

I think im gunna model a Power armor dude riding the back of a baneblade punching through it and title it "grenades go boom now" lmao


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

And then you lose your hand :laugh:
Otherwise it's a sound plan.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Winterous said:


> And then you lose your hand :laugh:
> Otherwise it's a sound plan.


well I never said the dude lived, just that hes blowing up the baneblade... usually super heavies that blow up, blow up good and take... well... everything with them


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Winterous said:


> However, how do you use them against a vehicle?
> 
> Do they have an adhesive substance to stick to it?
> Do they have a magnetic clamp to stay attached?
> ...


You see that exhaust pipe? You see that small potatoe-shaped object you're holding in your hand?

Let the 10 year old inside you figure the rest out... :grin:


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Sethis said:


> You see that exhaust pipe? You see that small potatoe-shaped object you're holding in your hand?
> 
> Let the 10 year old inside you figure the rest out... :grin:


I'd say it looks more like a pill.
A suppository to be precise :grin:

But really, it's an implosive grenade designed to rip holes in armour, not cause wide-spread damage.


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## unixknight (Jul 26, 2010)

Winterous said:


> Krak grenades are kinda weird; they're an implosive grenade.
> http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Krak_grenade
> 
> However, how do you use them against a vehicle?
> ...


Actually I think it says somewhere that it's assumed the attacker has some means of fastening the explosive to the vehicle, like a clamp or magnet or whatever. 

"Sticky bombs? Are you making that up, sir?"
"No. It's in the field manual. You can look it up if you want to."
"Well we seem to be fresh out of field manuals so perhaps the Captain will enlighten us."
"Well you take a basic G.I. sock, stuff it with as much Comp B as it will hold, smear it with grease, and attach a fuse to it. It's a bomb that sticks. A sticky bomb."

-Saving Private Ryan


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Let's just assume that it has some sort of spike that hooks into the side of a vehicle *cough*


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