# Dark Riders or Shades



## Wingman (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm debating about whether or not to field dark riders for flank and WM harrasment or if I should just go with shades for that. I'm the only Dark Elf player at my LGS so I have never seen either used before but both seem to be equipped for about the same thing. 

As far as allowance goes I have enough warriors and crossbowmen that I don't need to worry about getting dark riders just to fill the quota. 

So are they both mainly supposed to do the same thing or does one excell better than the other in certain areas. What are your experiences with either of them. Thank you all for your help.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

if you choose to do shades, the Mandrakes for Deldar work well for them, just saying.


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

I don't know what is in the rest of your army, so maybe you DO need the fast movement of the dark riders.

But I do know that shades have ALWAYS given me trouble.
Skirmishers with FANTASTIC ballistic skill that can move about freely (and scout) means there's a ton of dead warmachines/ lone models

Personally, I see dark riders as overpriced and the bows (repeater) for them make them even more expensive. Plus they're easier to shoot at , being non-skirmishers.

you COULD if you wanted to, place an assassin in your shades. Just an option (that most don't take).


Good luck


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## Deathypoo (Jun 27, 2011)

5 Dark Riders get a 5+ armor save, are much faster, and charge hard enough to easily kill wm crews. I don't normally give them crossbows as it costs too much. Dark Riders can pretty much get to wherever they need to be turn 1 to charge on turn 2. They are mounted darkelves so probably slightly better than other army's cheap flankers. They are core.

5 Shades can start taking crossbow shots on turn 1, but 10 shots per turn against a typical war machine takes about 3 turns to kill (hit on 4+, wound on 6 = 1 wound a turn). They are slower than cavalry, and need a melee weapon upgrade to fight well against other flankers - which they can do but you don't *want* them doing because they're a shooting unit. They are a special choice.


The only argument I see for shades is versatility. Give them an extra hand weapon (which makes them exact same points cost as riders) and get into CC, and still shoot on free turns... but I always take the dark riders.

EDIT: Shades hit on 4+ assuming they fire double and moved or are over half range. For shades I assume they're going to have at least 1 of the later 2.


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## Durzod (Nov 24, 2009)

It's probably just my play style, but I always get a lot out of my fast cav units. Having swiftstride, they do a better job of baiting charges, but being cav means they have trouble wirh dangerous terrain.


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## Wingman (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks for the posts everyone. I think I might be leaning torwards Dark Riders based on what you all have said. Getting the charge on warmachines quickly will be nice and as long as I get to their flank before they can fire much than I should have plenty of troops left to take them out quickly.

I do fairly well against most front rank units with a unit of 40 spearmen, 2 units of cold ones, 20 crossbowmen, and two reapers. In addition I normally take a hydra, 40 Corsairs (if I need extra points), 2 sorceresses, and 20 executioners (until blackguard are in finecast). 

I'm going to check out and see how making mandrakes as shades will work out because that could probably look really good.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

I just use their full model as shades, and give them a cool backstory as to why they use magic "fireballs" instead of their bows XD


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

I use one unit of each. I find I absolutely need shades to deal with enemies with scout and skirmisher unit and certain war machines. The free reform and march and shoot abilities make shades really annoying and they can tie up and distract a lot. 

On the other hand, the vanguard move and free reform abilities of fast cav make dark riders essential. I find that dark riders are slightly over priced but if one takes them you might as well put the RXBs on them. There are times when they can take out skirmishers, bait and flee, harass and march block (units occasionally fail their LD tests), redirect charges. They are expensive as redirectors and can get shot up more easily than I'd like but they as often as not end the battle with one or more alive (giving up no VPs) and having done their job. 

It takes time and practice and skill to use both units and learn their strengths and weaknesses but both units are standard in a good dark rider army, shades being more common and popular in 8th edition whereas dark riders were more common and popular in 7th edition.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I love shades... in that I hate to fight against them. Dark riders have never been a problem for me.

Shades are fantastic, but I wouldn't class them as war machine hunters: they are excellent harassment units, and are supreme at taking down small enemy units/flankers... but they suck pretty badly at killing war machines.
Dark riders on the other hand are better at killing warmachines and are solid on offense... but die far too quickly for their points, just like the other elven fast cav.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Shades with XHW and hatred and high initiative will usually kill a war machine and over run into the engineer or the next war machine very often. With their WS and I, you are typically striking first and hitting 8 out of 9 times with the hatred re-roll. With six shades, that translates into 10 2/3 hits at S3. Even with T4 dwarves and four crew, one will kill 3+ on average and have almost a 50% chance of killing all four. Against empire and skaven war machines, shades will kill nearly every time.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Shades. Though Dark Riders can be made to work, and work quite well, a unit of 6 shades is just about the perfect general purpose harassment and warmachine hunting unit. They lose 8" of movement over Dark Riders, and armor, but I think that's worth it for the BS5 and much cheaper price. Give them AHW and they can take warmachines easy.


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## Wingman (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks for all your help everyone. I'm looking forward to trying everything that you have suggested. It sounds like shades are the favorite here so I'll see how they play in a game for me.


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