# Nob bikerz- here to stay



## Vashtek (Nov 2, 2007)

Got this from BOLS from a tournament report on GT Baltimore:

_RD 4: VS Neil Cauley. Neil had already taken out Nick earlier. I am sorry for not having a pic of his Army. I could have sworn I had it, but alas it was two squads of 8 Nob bikerz with two warbosses, a 20 man shootas squad and a 10 man Gretchin mob to sit on an objective. The mission was Capture and Control with pitched battle deployment. Let me tell you, nob bikerz are mean. I know how to deal with them, and as you can see in the tournament, the top armies were nob bikerz. My list was designed to deal with the lists out there to kill nob bikerz, but alas there were enough of them out there. For those that want to know, more meltas, thunderhammer terminators, and just power fists are a good way to kill bikerz. As well as Deff Rollas too. Anyway, Neil played a great game and took me out when I had a crap charge into one squad. My guys were dead, and his were not. We called it as his two squads were about to hit my objective and at the very least contest it. Good game and Neil went on to win the whole thing so it isn't too bad that I lost heh._

This is from a guy that finished in the top 5 with a unit of nob bikers himself. Seems like nob bikers are the new boys in town... 

So what to do about it? What lists can beat nob bikers and also take on other armies?

I think that you can basically forget shooting them as they will have toughness 5, a 3+ cover save and FNP. They can in addition allocate shots to the warboss which has T5/6 to stop instakills from stuff like lascannon.

In combat you need stuff which is over str 8 (to insta-kill), denies saves and can take lots of power klaw hits back.

The only thing I can think of are terminators. Any other viable solutions?


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Shooting is viable, but not if you only do 1 hit now and then. Battlecannons or eq s8+ cheeseplate shooting things are brilliant against them, as are all ap1+2 weapons, but in case of these you need to shoot more then one to do any real good. But yea they are hard assed green cans of whupp azz for sure :scare: They have however gotten worse in 5th thanks to the removal of consolidating into CC, which reduce all "all eggs in a basket unit types" efficiency drastically.

Btw the coversave is 4+

Id say that a SM army with 3 vindicators have a really good chance of raping them to bitz, while still being playable against anything 
A CSM list with same 3 and 2 LoS sorcs would do better, actually damn good, against them 
I imagine that guards should be good against them, lots of cheap sacrifice units, and the 3 cheeseplates again. They however tend to pack nuff heavy weapons to have other ways of dealing damage too


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## Flakey (Sep 24, 2008)

Cover is your friend. Stick units in the upper floors of buildings and they are immune to a nob bikers CC. Stick units in woods and watch nob bikers have to take dangerous terrain tests if they want to CC you.


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## Vashtek (Nov 2, 2007)

The coversave is 3+ because they turbo boost first turn (which is 3+ cover save) and they are in combat 2nd turn. You don't get a shot at them if you go first because they get put in reserve.

Template weapons could be ok I guess... vindicators are ok for their points so that is a reasonable suggestion.

LoS fails v bikers- they simply go too fast and survive shooting...you just keep boosting towards the sorcerers. See skuzzlebumm's GT report where he massacred 2 LoS armies. 

I like the suggestion about cover and that is certainly something to bear in mind.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

I played a 2000 point Ork list last night. I fielded a 7 bike Nob squad /w warboss.

AMAZING UNIT. I soaked up fire for 2 TURNS from - 2 squads of guardians + their scatter lasers, 6 war walkers /w scatter lasers, 1 - 6 man squad of swooping hawks, and 1 round of bladestorm (30 shots) 

I lost 1 nob biker, and all the other models had 1 wound on them. That is insane soakage, they then proceeded to clean up some dire avengers (0 casualties) and then would have moved on to the dark reapers.

In large lists, I will never leave home with these guys & lootas. They are now a staple.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Actually aren't they T4(5)? So for instant death a basic power fist would work. And how do they achieve a 3+ cover save?
As for dealing with them, rhino-bound chosen with flamers, a big templar squad, etc.

They're amazingly point effective, but kill enough of them and they'll flounder.


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## Flakey (Sep 24, 2008)

5th edition turbo boost. A bike unit using turbo boost gets a +3 cover save the turn they are using it.

2 melta guns are also far better for you than the two flamers in the chosen. 2 flamers even in the most ideal positioning will only have a 50/50 chance of causing 1 wound. Less if you can not cover 3 bikes with both templates.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Flakey said:


> 5th edition turbo boost. A bike unit using turbo boost gets a +3 cover save the turn they are using it.
> 
> 2 melta guns are also far better for you than the two flamers in the chosen. 2 flamers even in the most ideal positioning will only have a 50/50 chance of causing 1 wound. Less if you can not cover 3 bikes with both templates.


...What? It'd be five flamers. And if they're using the eight man mob, overlapping templates would mean...

40 hits
13 wounds
6.5 dead nobs
I'm pretty sure an infiltrating rhino would give them the amazing advantage of placing themselves wherever they'd need to be in the best situation.

Five meltas would probably score the same amount...only they'd get that cover save
5 shots-4 hits-4 wounds-1 dead nob

Or do nobs have a 4+ save? Even with that you're still killing 3 nobs compared to the possible one of the melta gun, all for a squad costing a third of what the nobs run you.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> ...What? It'd be five flamers. And if they're using the eight man mob, overlapping templates would mean...
> 
> 40 hits
> 13 wounds
> ...


If your opponent has placed his nobz even remotely well spaced the most your going to hit with 1 template is 4 (realistically 2-3). 2" base /w 2" spacing for maximum cover for your foot sloggers. 5 templates nets you 20 hits. 5's to wound means your going to score 6.6666 wounds. 4+ armor save means 3.3333 wounds, 4+ FNP means 1.6666 wounds. So you might kill one. guess what, next turn you're dead.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Crimzzen said:


> If your opponent has placed his nobz even remotely well spaced the most your going to hit with 1 template is 4 (realistically 2-3). 2" base /w 2" spacing for maximum cover for your foot sloggers. 5 templates nets you 20 hits. 5's to wound means your going to score 6.6666 wounds. 4+ armor save means 3.3333 wounds, 4+ FNP means 1.6666 wounds. So you might kill one. guess what, next turn you're dead.


But these are bikers, on big biker bases. The template only has to touch them in the vaguest way to cause a hit. And with a lashing prince(Which is amazingly common), what they meant to position themselves with is kind of moot.

I totally forgot about feel no pain hahah, my bad.

And terrifying. You wiped out a squad meant to distract you. Well done. Now enjoy vindicator shells as you are no longer turboboosting.

And if you're saying flamers are unavailable to wipe them out, than what else? Dreadnaughts would just die in a shower of sparks. Power-fisting chosen cost way too much to be used in any competitive setting, melta guns are useless as you have a remarkable cover save. The best you can do is set up a sacrificial unit, hope the ork takes the bait, than fire lots of delicious things into it, or die.

To be honest, I can't think of a unit in the chaos codex that can take them mano-e-mano in CC besides maybe charging two squads of berserkers.
If 2 ten-man squads of berserkers get the charge, mathhammer would put them at...
20 bp shots-14 hits- 4.5 wounds- 2.25 failed saves-1 failed feel no pain(One wound from 20 bolter shots. Wow. Hello plague marines)

Now charging:
9 zerks-36 attacks-24 hits-12 wounds-6 failed saves-3 failed feel-no-pain(one dead, one injured)
9 zerks-36 attacks-24 hits-12 wounds-6 failed saves-3 failed feel-no-pain(two dead)
Than we move down to power fists:
1 Skullchamp-4 attacks-3 hits-3 wounds-3 dead nobs
1 Skullchamp-4 attacks-3 hits-3 wounds-3 dead nobs
5 nobs-20 attacks-10 hits-9 dead zerks

Well the zerks lose combat, but there be no more nobs about. Although the percentage of actually having that many berserkers in range and in a list is rare. You'd probably just run around and kill everything in a balanced list, nobs are stupid good, I can't think of a chaos elite choice to fight them with cost effectiveness, and probability of being in a balanced list in mind.

I still like the sacrificial squad idea mixed with a lashing prince and vidicators. It'd take all the benefits away from having the unkillable nob squad around, and it's much more viable in a list of similar cost.


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## Refyougee (Nov 24, 2008)

I kind of like the idea of 10 FDs coming out of a Wave Serpent. If you give crack shot to the Exarch you're killing 3 nobs even after taking into account the Turbo Boosting. For about 300 points. Not to mention how effective this is against alot of other units as well.


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## Darkangeldentist (Oct 31, 2007)

I've fought nob bikers a few times and they are damned mean. Terminators are the best marine option. Invulnerable saves mean at least one in a small unit or a support character charging with them will survive. The huge number of wounds in the unit mean the nobs loss and run away. (Instant death mutiplier.:biggrin

For Tau it's got to be combo of markerlights and the right guns. Blast from a railgun causes pinning as do the sniper drones. With markerlights you can drop their cover save to nothing and ensure they fail that pinning test.

Eldar do well with all the tricks and special weapons at their disposal. Doom!

Chaos are much like marines. Although a Slaanesh lord with daemon weapon sounds interesting. (Lash will of course make things a lot simplier. Away with you, into terrain.)

Nids must rely on the big guys really but implant attack can mean Orks pay a heavy toll for the damage they inflict. Necrons need the C'tan.

Nob bikers are mean but if you buy lots they suck up all the points and if they are small you risk them not doing enough.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

I almost always toss a unit of nob bikers in to my orc army, and the things that work best for taking them down are anti-tank weapons s8 or higher in large numbers. The best things to take them out are stripped-down carnifexes or any other str 8 no save melee attacks or railgun solid shot. A 1500pt tau army should be able to take down a decent number of them each turn.

Also, watch what units are shooting. Use your anti-tank guns first/when no models have wounds missing and then use any smaller arms you're going to use after that to avoid insta-killing bikers that are already missing a wound and would have gone down to smaller arms.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Note that instant kill now kills unwounded models in preference to wounded ones. If a railgun wounds an ork, the ork player can't remove a wounded guy unless there are no other eligible targets.


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## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

On a side note. Less so if the Warboss is in the unit but how about tank shocking the Nobs? Chao's especially due to Dirge casters (god i wish i still had Warp Amps)! They are after all only leadership 7!

Or Mind War. That would be good too.


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## snuggles (Apr 29, 2008)

how to kill nobz with bikes and feel no pain?

anything that can mess with their leadership would be great.
although i hate them i would say use flayed ones and those other necrons with the power weapons and mess with opponents leadership. being that they are a small unit breaking them in this way should be easy. since when they charge you they have crap initiative you may even strike first if not simal.

dark eldar can use torment gernades to break their ld easily and just by staying on the open topped raider and shooting they should be able to wittle them down.

eldar, i would mind war the painboy in the unit to get rid of the fnp, and then use squads of pathfinders to pin them, and make sure the squad is doomed as well, and have fire dragons in a falcon hit using guide and doom.

chaos, LOS and demolisher cannons. i would use cheap units as road blocks and focus on 1 unit at a time

tau, put Kroot in the woods so they have to test dangerous to get to them and krootox for cc, maybe hounds but i dont know them too well. I think tau have a few guns that ignore cover so i would use em and ues transports to get 2/3 units of fire warriors clore for a rapid fire barrage.

when you set up terrain for tourneys try as hard as ytou can to get cover in the right places, and most important HE HAS TO ROLL FOR INDIVIDUAL MODELS FOR DANGEROUS TERRAIN. thats right the warboss and the painboy can get screwed this way as well as and specially equiped powerfist weilding nob.
I hope this helps feel free to let me know if i am oversighting anything


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## Sieg (Dec 3, 2007)

I dont know what is so bad about all of these. I agree that Chaos has very little to actually worry about in this fight. My example that i used for this discussion with my friends was my MoT DP. I can fly in and then use wind of chaos to weaken the group. Then with warp time i can attack first and these hits will ignore their armor and feel no pain. then i have a 3+/4+ save to cover me. They will most likely loose combat and fail their leadership.


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## snuggles (Apr 29, 2008)

I almost forgot my best chaos weapon against them!
I play thousand sons so i use three scorcerers in my sons squads a dp and Arhiman

they all have gift of chaos so in all that would be 11 times you could cast it at them if you sucker them in wiith a bait unit or two.
there is no cover save there is no feel no pain and its not only insta kill but they are now in combat with a pesky little bugger and will be unable to charge at you 

I love doing this to termi units and the like. I dunno if you go by their base T or modified by the bike. either way with 11 tries you should see some 5's and 6's and dont forget you can snipe with it so get rid of the painboy, and powerklaws.
also you might want to think of another tzeentch combo. 
DP with wings and warp time and the flaming spell(cant remember name)
you fly in cast warptime cast flamer spell wound on a 4 with rerolls and no cover saves.
I think they still get fnp. then you assault and get to reroll hits and wounds. I would target the boss with these. but i dont see how they win erasily vs a whip army since you can string them out far enough to assault without letting the boss swing and try to break them.


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

I've had most success with Terminators as well, though I wonder how my Daemon Prince would have fared.


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## Sieg (Dec 3, 2007)

i am almost positive that you use the base T for gift of chaos. Also, they do get FNP but that is better then letting them get their normal 2 saves a piece, at minimum it should cause a wound or 2.


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## snuggles (Apr 29, 2008)

VS gift of chaos they get no cover save and they get no FnP save. They are not wounded so they get no save


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