# Mechanised... Why?



## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Ok, I'm a little curious. Why is everyone so hot on being mechanised in 5th edition, for the people with a new codex, like SMs and IG, I can understand it, since it's pretty cheap for them to get those transports.

It still leaves me a little bewildered. As a longtime SoB player, I've always fielded my sisters as a full footslogging army, with an excorcist and/or a landraider as long range support. I've never really had any trouble being outmaneuvered, or outmaneuvering my enemy, and now I have my Al'Rahem platoon added to my forces, it's only become scarier how I can pincer and clinch my enemies in a vise and annihilate them.

So.. why would I want to spend points on rhino's, if I can get 5 extra sisters for the price of 1 rhino?


----------



## matty570 (Jun 14, 2007)

I'd say the biggest difference is the fact that flank/scout etc still work on vehicles. Meaning you can flank LR's in a space marine army... Also the fact that it is now harder to take out vehicles (unless they're in squadrons) with glancing not able to take down vehicles.

Plus the added perks of cover saves. I mean seriously the odd occasion where a monolith or a land raider gets a cover save is just wrong!! 

I personally, still dont like mechanised lists but I think thats just because I prefer the idea of foot sloggers and dont like painting tanks.

Oh and lastly since vehicles count as scoring units so long as they have a troop choice inside them makes them damn useful. For example taking that objective on the last turn with a 24" boost with a falcon loaded with 10 guardians, or an IG vendetta with a 5 man troop platoon command squad.

thats my 5 bits anyway


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

For me its target denial- if I literally dont have any infantry on the table then all anti-infantry weapons that you have are totally useless (especially the longer range ones like heavy bolters and sniper rifles).

My SW tend to get out of the transports for 1 turn before they charge into the enemy and cause chaos. In theory sisters wont care too much about those tactics but most armies do.
The best thing about having troops/elites hidden away in transports is that it gives the enemy anti-tank far too many targets to hit. They have to choose between killing tranports or support vehicles. I often have 3 rhinos with 2 dreads and a vindicator supporting them- most enemies target the vindi then panic and switch to the transports when they have already waited too long and let my troops get really close.


To give it a sisters spin- if SMs could take 9 whirlwinds and you knew someone who liked to then if you leave your sisters in the open they'll be shreaded by long range S5 blasts (and probably either pinned or broken). Throw them all in a couple of transports and suddenly what was a massive threat is no more then a nuisence- also means you can race 12" in the rhino, jump out another 2" and then have all your weapons well within effective distance (rather then moving <6" and shoot you move <14" and shoot).


----------



## Le Sinistre (May 9, 2008)

Add to this the 2 lash lists... There are too many of that type lists. You can nullify it with vehicles. The other thing is really the cover, what they give. :wink:


----------



## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm never worried about lash lists, SoBs are anti-psychers. Even my basic troops have a 5+ nullify psychic power ability, and that's not even counting the fact my inquisitor lord has a nice psychic hood to shut down about half your psychic powers that you successfully use.


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

... and the manouverability, not just the speed: having 5 rhinos is easy enough to move about at will... having 50 models in close proiximity really limits where you can move (normally meaning you can either stay stationary of do a general advance, loading 1 area with troops isnt easy to manage without presenting a massive target for blast weapons.


----------



## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

Who cares if you don't want to use transports... don't use them. I don't think it's a 5th ed sentiment, I think it's just the sentiment of those that like to have immunity to anti-personell fire and move faster. And outmaneuver non-mech lists.

Simple fact of the matter...

If you put a squad in a transport, it is at least 10x easier to get it positioned where you need it to be, when you need it to be. Say you have a foot sloggin sister army and I have a mech one... who do you think is the one that's going to be getting all the good point-blank rapid-fire and multiple flamer template shooting first? I will. I move faster. Simple as that.


----------



## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

As a Tau player, it now seems necessary for me to include not just devilfish, but upgraded devilfish to keep my fire warriors safe. Tau can't fight their way out of a paper bag and now anyone trying to assault them (everyone) gets a d6 on top of their movement every turn (run). This leaves me with perhaps three turns to deal with large hordes, like a boyz mob, but the real problem is the classic landraider filled with terminators that seems to pop up in most games. Those I have two turns to deal with, and since I roll poorly I need a way to get everyone out of danger, so I bring devilfish.


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Transports are very helpful additions to an army... but dont forget they do have downsides- they limit squad size, cost points and most importantly give away extra KP (which can lose you the game in close anhiliation missions).

I do love transports because I like to be able to zoom about the field (its why I get bored with my nids- set up in big pile, move forward, shoot anything that lives and win gets a little dull) but that doesnt mean they are a supreme bonus.. they often suck and can lose you the game.


----------



## ThePublic (Apr 8, 2009)

I have felt that the newer editions of WH40k have made mechanized so popular because of a few things:

Target denial and winning a game that is short (really folks, 5 turns is real short compared to earlier eds) by parking on objectives in the final round.

Personally I hate the idea of crappy, no sense objective games, and feel that they bring down the hobby as a whole (ask me if you want me to elaborate)

That and it seems in the age of 40K that folks are shooting smooth bore, short ranged weapons and without vehicle to get you into range on a large board, you sit around alot and twiddle your thumbs (the ranges used to come in short and LONG in the old days, but again, ask if you want the full story).

No, 5th has become tank commander with a bit of troop by and large, and that my friends, makes me sad.

Sorry to rain on your parades

ThePublic


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

If someone would be so kind, the simple maths for a Battlecannon vs a Chimera of sisters, compared to a Battlecannon vs a sloggage (the collective noun for a group of walking individuals. Yes, I made it up, but it's pretty good.) of Sisters will demonstrate that the Chimera gets to survive more often. Rhinos it's a less pronounced difference, but it still protects you from all light a-i fire, as T/S said.


----------



## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I do see Mechanised more, but in saying that if you play footslogging armies right they are just as powerful.

When people say vehicles help out manouver foot based armies they are correct to some extent but when you play mech VS foot your vehicles yes can hit and run but in the end you move at the pace of the slower army and with short ranged weapons a wall of infantry will be able to shoot you and possibly even charge you.


----------



## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

2 Reasons I use them:

1) Protection - A transport eliminates any worry of AI guns as well as shields them from Heavy Weapons.

2) Maneuverability - I'd like you to find me a footslogging army that can move 36" in 1 turn AND have a cover save (Wave Serpent /w star engines). That means that those tanks literally have 1 turn to shoot before they recieve a facefull of melta. Another example, my meganobz are normally subject to S&P, however in a battlewagon they essentially have a 15" movement (13" move + 2" disembark & potentially a 6" waaagh and d6" charge) - again it means combat second turn for a slow but powerful unit.


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Mechanized was effective but not mandatory ack in 3rd and 4th because usually you would use your Fast Attack units, bikers, speeders, jump packs and the like to grab objectives. 

In 5th, however, there are two important changes: 
1) only troops can score. Barring a few 'take bikers for troops' options here or there, Troops are generally footsloggers and slow as fuck wihtout a transport.
2) Troops can still score if inside their transport. This means you can load up a unit of expendables and power towards the objective at 12", 18" or even 24" depending on the nature of your transport and grab last minut eobjectives without having to slow down and unload.

Combine that with safer transport rules (no more rolling coffins exploding and taking out half your squad) and cheaper dedicated transports, it;s easy to see why Mech has taken on new importance in 5th.


----------



## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

Some armies are just far more effective with transports, Space Marines being one of them but you still need to deploy effectively. I also like to mount my Ork Boyz in battle Wagons. I feel that 20 boyz in a wagon is far better than 30 on foot.


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Lash Machine said:


> Some armies are just far more effective with transports, Space Marines being one of them but you still need to deploy effectively. I also like to mount my Ork Boyz in battle Wagons. I feel that 20 boyz in a wagon is far better than 30 on foot.


It depends how your luck is- an elitist army will be glad to see the boyz in a battlewagon: 1 lascannon shot to the side could blow up the vehicle, which should kill 5-6 boyz in the explosion (or drop a melta near it- battlewagon will explode on a 4+ after penning) while 30 boyz are damn hard to whittle down to manageable numbers....
the huge BUT to that is that the battlewagon is quick, easily manouverable and has lovely 14 frontal armour (if you can ever get enemies in the tiny front arc). The biggest advantag eto orcs is probably that you can move quickly, so the game doesnt take 5h simply because it takes that long to move all the models.


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I like doing swarms of trukk mobz. Sure, the green tide is a strong, easy to build list, but there's something about a half dozen rusty buggies tear-assing across the board to snag objectives and tie up enemy units that appeals to me.


----------



## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, the only mechanization Necrons benefit from is Monoliths. But thats now a huge advantage as 5th Ed makes them unkillable by glances; What this basically means is that my monoliths are indestructible, and I can steamroll your army with them. Two monoliths are wonderful rear support for advancing warriors, giving you double the recycling power and double the S9 pie plates, and are a bargain for how incredibly tough and strong they are.

Because of 5th ed I've considered always fielding a third monolith, but that cuts into my other options, and I prefer having a teeming mass of infantry over a few indestructible tanks. Its preference really for all the races but transports, from what I can see, have as much chance to backfire as they have to help you win a decisive victory. If you pop a transport that has lots of units in it, guess what, they're still slogging it but you've probably killed a couple units too. But if you don't, they'll grab a last turn objective or dump a pile of Khorne Berzerkers on top of you.


----------



## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

Eh, part of it is that it's harder to kill an embarked squad than it used to be.

I used to empty my Trukks as fast as I could because the damned things were always getting blown up and the Boyz inside kept dying.

Especially against Ordnance. It could be rough losing a Trukk Mob or an entire Rhino full of Marines to a single Battle Cannon hit (I actually miss that particular rule. Gave Ordnance some much needed extra punch).

So now the ONLY drawback to transports is their points costs- and that actually saves new players money.


But my Orks still mostly walk... unless my Weirdboy gets all crazy-like.


I consider it another form of target denial.

If I'm playing Tau and they're running Broadsides? I am not at all concerned.

"Oh, you hit that one Ork with your rail guns? Well, HE'S super dead. His 29 friends are laughing themselves sick. Tell you what, I'll take the model and smash it with a hammer if it'll make you feel better..."


So yeah, it's the trendy routine in 5th. Many armies have always favored a transport approach.


----------



## IronFortress (Aug 16, 2009)

It is even more important now with the Space Wolves codex coming out. 

While SW are more expensive, their skills/abilities/wargears/oaths/wolves are amazing. The psychic powers are near godly: providing Cover Saves, d6 STR7 assault shots, removing entire line of models in 24" which incidently just doesn't work on vehicles... makes me cry that my CSM can't ride anything as cavalry... :cray:

Ok, people say the Space Wolves are limited by honor... yeah, show me a powergamer who does more than what MUST be done... :gamer2:

So they don't get combat tactics, but if you read into what they want to do... Combat tactics do not make any sense for them to employ anyways.


----------



## SKITTLESKITTEN (Feb 12, 2008)

Transports are fun, adds some excitement to the game, plus too a rhino at 35 pts is a really nice deal, add the fact that a marine has a really good chance of surviving an explosion and you have a steal. Also too, if you're not feeling fluffy, a cheap transport can be used as a movable obstacle of sorts. I mean who knows, in the spirit of bloodlust, an orc could very well run his trukk head long into an enemy squad. Also too, if hes all tribal like, he could end up scoughing at his imperial foe's following of rules and show him how an unmoralistic tactic can have a extremely bloody and nasty effect first hand. Not too sure about Orc fluff though, as like some of them "Bad Moons" are said to be very greedy by nature and not likely to use a kamikaze type tactic. Also too, Orc's might consider such a tactic completely unbecoming of a warmonger or aka a warrior, someone who follows the passions of war. For CSM its pretty obvious that if the fool doesnt crash sacrifice himself and his rhino that his buddy's will have a much worse fate waiting for him. I dont think Orc's are into torture though so I wouldnt use that fluff for them. Orc culture appears to very deep and I doubt they would ever torture, also life is pretty cheap to an Orc, and torturing someone to gain an "edge" when you consider your life relatively cheap is a really big no no. Further more, I think an Orc would take great pride in stomping an opponent with overwhelming force and really dont even have the patience or intelligence for cunning type combat and moving a gigantic horde around is very very far from stealthy.


----------



## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

MOst of the main points have been touched upon, but something that has been missing is cc initiative- it generally takes a lot of effort to kill a cheap transport, then the guys inside can still act on their turn. There are a lot of cc units in the game that will get to charge something no matter what you do. Having a transport is the easiest way to prevent them charging something valuable and making sure you can still shoot them (and assault them) in your turn. If you don't have transports you are going to have to have an assault screen which is considerably less reliable. 

Interestingly, the rush to mechanise has resulted in more anti mech in armies, thus making pure footsloggers more viable. Not as viable as mech in a lot of circumstances but still better.


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Good example of mech being used as anti-assault in an offensive manor is drive-by burnas- 20 burnas in a battlewagon flaming out the window then relying on the battlwagon's size and speed to either stop the wagon being hit in CC or to stop it being surrounded so at worst you can still get your guys out of the vehicle (rather then walking up, burning then being squished by a peaved enemy).


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I'm fond of fifteen Tankbustas in a battlewagon with red paint. Move 7" fire 15 krak missiles, repeat as needed ;-)

Expensive though, lot of eggs in one basket, but fun


----------



## oreomaster3 (Mar 13, 2009)

what i take :

4 rhino full of sisters

3 penitent engines

2 exorcists

1 LR



like to see space marines trying to come in cc to kill my tanks, fail and i flame them from the inside


----------



## anarchyfever (May 24, 2008)

I think its important to realise that different races take tanks (dedicated transports only) for different reasons

Space Marines - Tanks are cheap and effective protection
Tau - Tanks can move and shoot 12"
Eldar - Speed, Firepower and durability (But they make up for it in points)
Dark Eldar - Speed, also ability to deep strike (I love that rule, wargear screamers)
Orks - Speed
Tyranids - None
Necrons - None
Imperial Guard - Durability

what do you think?


----------



## Praxiss (Aug 13, 2009)

Am i the only one who keeps forgetting that Rhinos have a firepoint?! Doh.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

anarchyfever said:


> I think its important to realise that different races take tanks (dedicated transports only) for different reasons
> 
> Tau - Tanks can move and shoot 12"


Devilfish are all about giving the Tau some objective capturing potential. Without any 'fish Tau need to rely on Kroot or foot slogging Fire Warriors to win two out of three games.


----------



## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Devilfish are all about giving the Tau some objective capturing potential. Without any 'fish Tau need to rely on Kroot or foot slogging Fire Warriors to win two out of three games.


This is true for more then the TAU army. IG really benefits from Chimeras/Valkyries for snatching objectives midfield/enemyside, as does Eldars in Waveserpents/Falcons, Dark Eldars in Raiders and so on. 
Basically all of youre average T3 trooper wins lots of having a ride across the battlefield. These guys tend to be shot to bits before they reach halfway otherwise:wink:


----------



## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Iron Angel said:


> Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, the only mechanization Necrons benefit from is Monoliths. But thats now a huge advantage as 5th Ed makes them unkillable by glances; What this basically means is that my monoliths are indestructible, and I can steamroll your army with them. Two monoliths are wonderful rear support for advancing warriors, giving you double the recycling power and double the S9 pie plates, and are a bargain for how incredibly tough and strong they are.
> 
> Because of 5th ed I've considered always fielding a third monolith, but that cuts into my other options, and I prefer having a teeming mass of infantry over a few indestructible tanks. Its preference really for all the races but transports, from what I can see, have as much chance to backfire as they have to help you win a decisive victory. If you pop a transport that has lots of units in it, guess what, they're still slogging it but you've probably killed a couple units too. But if you don't, they'll grab a last turn objective or dump a pile of Khorne Berzerkers on top of you.


I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but you can't portal and use the s9 pie plates in the same turn.



Galahad said:


> I like doing swarms of trukk mobz. Sure, the green tide is a strong, easy to build list, but there's something about a half dozen rusty buggies tear-assing across the board to snag objectives and tie up enemy units that appeals to me.


This is actually one of the things that attracted me to orks originally. That and their bikes. Unfortunately, it doesn't do very well for me so I only do it during casual games.



OddJob said:


> MOst of the main points have been touched upon, but something that has been missing is cc initiative- it generally takes a lot of effort to kill a cheap transport, then the guys inside can still act on their turn. There are a lot of cc units in the game that will get to charge something no matter what you do. Having a transport is the easiest way to prevent them charging something valuable and making sure you can still shoot them (and assault them) in your turn. If you don't have transports you are going to have to have an assault screen which is considerably less reliable.
> 
> Interestingly, the rush to mechanise has resulted in more anti mech in armies, thus making pure footsloggers more viable. Not as viable as mech in a lot of circumstances but still better.


This works especially well against armies that really can't blow up armour during the shooting phase. Things like Tyranids and Orks who mainly rely upon CC to crack vehicles. Usually, this results in a squad cracking open a vehicle and then recieving a facefull of ammo in the following turn.



Tim/Steve said:


> Good example of mech being used as anti-assault in an offensive manor is drive-by burnas- 20 burnas in a battlewagon flaming out the window then relying on the battlwagon's size and speed to either stop the wagon being hit in CC or to stop it being surrounded so at worst you can still get your guys out of the vehicle (rather then walking up, burning then being squished by a peaved enemy).


Works pretty well, although if you don't wipe the squad, the power fist will wreck that battlewagon (hitting on a 4+ against rear) leaving your burnas hella exposed.



Galahad said:


> I'm fond of fifteen Tankbustas in a battlewagon with red paint. Move 7" fire 15 krak missiles, repeat as needed ;-)
> 
> Expensive though, lot of eggs in one basket, but fun


Also quite fun!


----------



## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

ThePublic said:


> I have felt that the newer editions of WH40k have made mechanized so popular because of a few things:
> 
> Target denial and winning a game that is short (really folks, 5 turns is real short compared to earlier eds) by parking on objectives in the final round.
> 
> ...




I tend to agree.
5th seems to pander more to the Tau and IG players than it really should.
Then again, I've always played more boots-on-the-ground type armies than vehicle-heavy ones... but that's just my preference in how I build them.


----------



## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

surely the real reason i use transports is so i dont have to get all my models out in one big hit (if at all lol). they are hard to kill. get good cover saves now. u can conga line them and get cover that way. they give cover saves in case summit needs cover (even the wreck!)defensive weapons (always good 4 chipping away at near dead units or trying to get lucky - generally attritional value) you have smoke nades. anyone can use them not just the squad it was bought for. most have fire points (melta death that can move 6 making ur meltagun 18 inch range!!!) template weapons can be fired out the hatch (or if open topped, n e where from the hull). but most importantly i think it comes down to the fact that in 5th you need your troops. no one brings the min n e more. ppl aim for the troops when u play them. no troops=no win (2/3 of the time). transports protect troops from pie plates. lots of small arms fire and flamers. protecting them for longer and meaning u will have more chance of having some alive to claim at the end of the game. all these things combined is why it is a no brainer for transports and armour values. If you dont have them then your not going to be winning much if you play tourneys/competitively. shhhimples!

o right. not just the first page of replies then. guess its all been covered. TAXI!


----------



## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

I saw this topic and had to laugh.
I my self picked up a new army just before the beginning of 5th. Now my army is going to be transport heavy because of the nature of my amry. My new army is Thousand Suns. I take transports just so I can feel like I'm actually moving instead of relying on my near famous 1's and 2's for my movement rolls.

As for extending the range of a weapon, it only extends the range of a weapon in 1 instance (Infantry can normally move and shoot 12 giving most weapons an effective range of 18") That is when a transport moves as fast as it can without moving "full out" so that the troops can still disembark (most vehicles will be 12") giving most short range weapons an effective 24"


----------



## Rye (Sep 22, 2009)

Oddly enough, Chaos Marines don't have drop pods. What's better to counteract 'Zerkers' Rage than with a Rhino? 

I also love my 55pt Chimeras. Stocking up a Vet squad with shotguns, flamers, a heavy flamer and Harker and then tank shocking them into an Ork mob never was so much fun.  Also, Creed can give an Ogryn squad the Scouts special rule, along with their dedicated transport. Outflanking Ogryns is also great fun. 

Really, unless you're Tau or an army list made up of purely shooty units, transports are the way to go.


----------



## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

Chaos has dreadclaws... kinda better than drop pods.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

maniclurker said:


> Chaos has dreadclaws... kinda better than drop pods.


I got the impression you were more of a Tournament'y type player...Imperial Armour hardly counts as an option.

If it's not in the Codex, it's not worth bringing into the discussion.


----------



## Gigantor (Jun 21, 2009)

While 5th may seem like it encourages more tanks and transports, but every infantry model can run. I've seen carnifexes move and run 10" - 12" on a regular basis. And by allowing combat to be resolved against the rear armor, anything that's not a LR or monolith gets screwed. Yes they made tanks and transports better, but do what I do. I use lascannons to kill rhinos and I get cheap kill points. I think they just made the whole game faster to play.


----------



## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

As has been said, a lot of the "why?" has been covered now, but I'll add a couple.

Battle Cannon shooting infantry = 7 or so dead infantry of a 10 man squad if it hits. Even if it scatters it'll get 1-3 often enough.

Battle Cannon shooting squad in 35-55pt transport = 1-2 dead infantry IF it beats the smoke launchers/flat out/hull down save and IF it penetrates the armour and THEN rolls a 6. In all other circumstances it = 0 dead infantry. Add the fact that if it scatters more than ~3" then it's half strength because the hole misses the tank.

Even IF the tank gets blown up, you've got half a chance of it leaving a wreck behind that gives your men a 4+ cover save.

The amount that a 35pt rhino ameliorates the damage taken from blast weapons alone makes it worth the points.

Add in the fact that infantry in an Armour 12 vehicle are immune to Heavy Bolters, Flamers, Pulse Rifles, Boltguns, and difficult to dent with Plasma and Assault Cannon fire.

Add in the fact that you can move 12", get out and Rapid Fire, in addition to shooting from fire points (and no longer be open topped in the case of Guard). You also have the tank's weaponry (even if it's just a Storm Bolter).

Add in the fact that transports are walking/rolling/floating cover saves for other vehicles/squads behind them e.g. Assault infantry, Dreadnoughts, Main Battle Tanks.

Soon you have a pretty good list of reasons to spend 35-50 extra points on every infantry squad in your army!


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

As a Chaos Player I use a few Rhinos for my Troops but theres plenty of Infantry/MC that will own a IG Tank Commander. 

DPs are devastating with Wings and a MoN or MoT with there Immortal Warrior rule makes them highly survivable as they carve up 2 to three Land Raiders a game. 

Greater Deamons take no FOC slot, so against a IG Mech List I have no prob adding 2 or the more MCs for tank and infatry killing. 

Oblits LOL need I say more? 3 Squads of 3 will annihilate 2000 pts of Chimeras, Russ Squadrons, and LRs. They also wipe out any Infantry out there. The only weakness is Pie Plates S8 or higher of death. 

Chosen with 5 Meltas and a cheap Rhino make for a bad day for Tank Commanders as the outflank means Long Range Barrage Tanks and AV14 Tanks that sit back and shoot get cooked.

Terminators with Combi Meltas/Chain Fists are also useful against Tread Heads. 

Now thats mostly non Tank choices of Infatry and MCs for Chaos Players while not falling into Tread List and comabating Tread Heads of 5th. All you need is a 2 or 3 Marines squads with Rhinos to take Objectives. Hardly a Mech List. However this is a CSM solution to Mech List without buying LRs, Defilers, or Vindies that can only have 3 max of anyway. Oblits are way better option though and easy (and fun) to make from Terminators with Green Stuff and weapon bits.

I also can think of 3 other armies that are awsome without Tanks. 
Nids of course.
Bikes as troops Lists, like Raven Wing, or Space Captains on Bikes, Or Eldar Jetbikes and Jetbike Seer Councils, ect.
Necs have the Monilith, thats it. Not a Mech Army.

I also want to add that in 5th there are Mad, MAD cover saves. Unless your playing a bare board game there will be plenty of 4+ coversaves around and thats where SMART foot Slogers place there Objectives. With the Run rule even the slow Orks can move quickly from place to place while surving strong Strength/AP weapons with little Loss. And Tanks have a good chance of rolling a 1 on Dangerous Terrain Tests and for Squadrones of Russes or Speeders thats a bad thing. Vehicle down.

Now for IG or Orcks using Dreads, Cans, and Wagons, or Space Marine Lists with 3 Dreads, Land Speeders, and LR variants, Yes I can see the need for people awsome Mech List but its not essential for 5th. At All. All you need is a few Transports, not every Troop choice with a ride.

Well thats my 2 cents.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

WiT, perhaps our definition of awesome differs, if you list Nids and Necrons...


----------



## oreomaster3 (Mar 13, 2009)

it's also the fact that you can spam vehicules (?? 11 ?? razorbacks with twin-linked HB ?) + rhinos with guys inside (and maybe meltas), that gives you 33 heavy bolter shots, while moving 6' each turn to get closer (or away from cc, with enemy needing 4 or 6's to hit ) and unload all ur army at one, rapid fire the crap out of your opponents while ur heavy bolters still shoots:laugh:


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

LOL moving 6' (6 foot) would be nice.. 6" (6 inches) is more like it 

11 rhinos/razorbacks is extreme but almost impossible to table- you need to kill ~2 a turn (or an average of 6 penetrating hits a turn) to clear them by the end of the game... certainly wont stop them before they can deliver their cargo unless your whole army is just anti-tank.


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

TheKingElessar said:


> WiT, perhaps our definition of awesome differs, if you list Nids and Necrons...


True but Destroyers can fly behind tanks for those rear armore shots, Scarabs have those Glance to death Disruption fields things (not sure on this), and 3 Monoliths are very hard to pop and destroy tanks easy. A Ctan would tear tanks up too. There not awsome I guess but thay can work if directed for anti-tank role.

Now Nids still have it going. 3 Carnies, 2 Hive Tyrants, all with Venom Cannons, and Gene Stealers with there Rending Attacks, you can mess up most Mech Armies like this.

But I do suppose Awsome can be strecthing it. k:


----------



## TheDarkRust (Oct 1, 2009)

I dont really like transports all that much as well. I dont like them even more so when it comes to kill point games.

Mech lists are pretty easy to beat in kill points.

I think another reason is that people ussually ignore them and instead have there anti tank shoot at well there tanks. When I always shoot down the transports first. It helps shut down there army as well as ussually the things in transports are more for CC or short range and they cant do much if they havent even gotten out of the gate yet.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Okay, but what about the other 2/3 games, the non-KP ones? :wink:


----------



## ItsPug (Apr 5, 2009)

Being Mech keeps my squishy guard alive to claim objectives, unless were talking about a combined 50 man mega squad which sits on the home objective.

Big combined squads are better as you can keep the wounds off the special and heavy weapons and just remove the flash lights, now if only there was a 50 troop capacity vehicle for standard (ie not Apoc) play.:laugh:


----------



## maniclurker (Jun 12, 2008)

Plus you can LOS block and provide cover saves for troops that don't have a transport, as well as tank shock and other stuff.


----------

