# Forge World rules



## Hurons_Champion (Aug 7, 2011)

Why won't anyone play with Forge World Rules, I play (When I'm Allowed) Tyrants legion but very few people at my local GW that allow me top use them. What are you thoughts on FW rules?


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

In general, Forge World Rules, and to a lesser extent Models, are judged on a person by person basis rather than being covered in the overall rules.
They are specialised and generally used for Apocalypse rather than standard 40k games. Some times over powered, sometimes under powered, but it is common for people to assume they are over powered and not want to play against them because you have an unfair advantage.
While this is quite untrue, it is the common line of though towards FW Rules and models.

In most cases few people will have a problem but it is best to ask your opponent before playing.

Alice


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

:goodpost:


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

You might be better off finding a FLGS and a group who is open to such things.


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## Capussa (Jun 22, 2012)

Unfortunately humans have a tendancy to fear the unknown, amoungst wargamers this is also present, especially amoungst those players who will only play against armies and players they are sure they will beat or have a belife that they cannot lose because they have not yet.

This fear also drives the collection of complaints that each new codex is over powered when released

Also it is worth checking the events at warhammer world as there is an increasing collection of Forgeworld based events including the Imperial Armour Warmarch on 18th-19th August and tickets are still on sale


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## Igni Ferroque (Dec 7, 2010)

Funny, I would love to be able to boast about taking down a Baneblade too. (He says with the utmost confidence and no prior knowledge of what a super tank can do.)

"Oh your army squashed another 2000 point army? Well I just popped me a baneblade!"

So what if you lose to it the first time. Learning how to crack the toughest nuts makes life much more enjoyable.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Surely now that GW has thrown 'balance' to the wind by allowing Allies into the standard 40K gaming mix, then the argumnet from the FW naysayers has lost even more weight.
Balance between the offcial 40K Codecii doesn't exist that much so adding the IA books isn't going to cause that much (if any) more imbalance.

Obviously only FW units stamped for 40K use should be considered...just getting in before the usual 'bringing a super-heavy' bullshitting crowd enter rhe fray.

That said, SGMAlice and Arcane have stated the standard answers that are relevant every time this subject comes up...which is mindnumbingly often, and the end result is always the same.


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## Lord Commander Solus (Jul 26, 2012)

Those guys are uptight. I'd love to play FW, makes a change from all the SM-variants. 

Plus Forge World is often underpowered rather than overpowered just to avoid this sort of situation. Those guys just need to stop taking themselves so seriously and realise it's a game to have fun with, not some life-or-death sword match.


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## Ork Mad (Sep 17, 2010)

:goodpost:


SGMAlice said:


> In general, Forge World Rules, and to a lesser extent Models, are judged on a person by person basis rather than being covered in the overall rules.
> They are specialised and generally used for Apocalypse rather than standard 40k games. Some times over powered, sometimes under powered, but it is common for people to assume they are over powered and not want to play against them because you have an unfair advantage.
> While this is quite untrue, it is the common line of though towards FW Rules and models.
> 
> ...


could have said it better


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I would be dubious, but not refuse a game, because I have no idea what I'm against. I know if I face Eldar, there's a fair chance of a proliferation of Str 6 weapons, at low BS but often twin-linked, on tough tanks with crap dudes inside, while I will never get a psychic power off without insane risk. If I face Blood Angels, I'll be fighting MEQ with a penchant for close combat/close range shooting, fast vehicles, and auras of Feel No Pain and Furious Charge.

If I faced Death Korps across the table? I think they have something about Rough Riders and Artillery units. Elysians? Deep striking Guardsmen with Warthogs they stole from the guys across the road at the Halo convention. Dred Mob? A bunch of Killa Kans and Deff Dreads with one or two of those big Mega or Meka dreads.

I have no idea what I'm fighting, and the people I play against fuck up the basic rules so often I don't trust them with extra rules. Apparently Krieg have an army-wide special rule called 'Shell Shock', any Pinning tests their Artillery cause are at -2 LD. Turns out that's a special rule on Quad-Guns, not on all of their guns, and it's -1 not -2.

If you have a Codex and let me read and analyse it for 20 minutes? Okay, we'll game.

Midnight


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Hurons_Champion said:


> Why won't anyone play with Forge World Rules, I play (When I'm Allowed) Tyrants legion but very few people at my local GW that allow me top use them. What are you thoughts on FW rules?


The problem is that no one is familiar with the rules because the books are so expensive and are uncommon. So people don't know what to do against your army and don't want to go and learn new rules just to play one person. It's okay when it's a new codex like necrons because it will help when playing future necron players. But for forge world, the odds are you wont see it again. So, why waste the time or money?


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> Apparently Krieg have an army-wide special rule called 'Shell Shock', any Pinning tests their Artillery cause are at -2 LD. Turns out that's a special rule on Quad-Guns, not on all of their guns, and it's -1 not -2.
> Midnight


No. That is completely untrue.

The thudd guns cause pinning at -1, but that's because they are not ordnance, so it's to keep them on par with pinning checks but not giving them the bonus for 2d6 ordnance roles.

The DKOK army list up until the 6th launch, was on the FW website for free. It's not terribly different different from regular guard, but costs more, have no transports that hold more than 5 guys and have lots of artillery.

That being said, I have the codex printed and ready to be seen at any time, and have yet had anyone turn me down. Not knowing the rules is a really poor excuse for not playing, just because they don't know how to beat them, and can't properly tailor. I don't know the DE codex, or the GK codex, but that doesn't mean I would say "no" if they wanted to play.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Hurons_Champion said:


> Why won't anyone play with Forge World Rules, I play (When I'm Allowed) Tyrants legion but very few people at my local GW that allow me top use them. What are you thoughts on FW rules?


Its because some people are to whinny and uptight about there Big rulebook and codex's. However the Tyrant legion is a 100% legal army list according to GW as are all Fw model now pretty much so no need to ask Permission. If someone won't play you or whines & Bitches tell them to grow a pair. :victory:


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Azkaellon said:


> Its because some people are to whinny and uptight about there Big rulebook and codex's. However the Tyrant legion is a 100% legal army list according to GW as are all Fw model now pretty much so no need to ask Permission. If someone won't play you or whines & Bitches tell them to grow a pair. :victory:


This is why I would refuse to play you, the delicious salty tears. 'It's 100% legal, ITS LEGAL IT'S LEGAL WAHHH'

Imperial Armour is like Planetstrike or Spearhead, you wouldn't ask someone for a game of 40K and throw down some Spearhead assets now would you?


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I disagree, if it is set up for a standard game there is no reason to complain. a spearhead or planetstrike is an entirely different type of game. This is just a different army list.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

I use IA units a lot. I always ask first if people mind. However, the people I play against tend to use them too. I take a wraithseer - One of my regular opponants has just bought an achilles...It's like a mini fw arms race.

But everything can be beaten. Whats worse? - playing something which you probably won't beat and losing, or (as I did against a contemptor) hammering the new 'super unit' in 1 turn and then going on to table them anyway?


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Playing against FW isn't too different in my mind than playing against any other army. If you have the rules on hand (not an unreasonable request, we ask people to do the same with their normal armies) I'll play you, just give me a couple minutes to flip through the rules first.

If you took the time to buy the models and build the army it's not unreasonable to want to play them and I'll gladly play something other than another game versus standard Marines again (nothing wrong with your standard Marines but it gets kind of dull to play them all the time. Thankfully my FLGS has become more open to non-Marine armies and one guy plays Krieg now). 

With the new edition I think Forgeworld will see more table time since they provide a considerable number of Anti-Air units to the game as well as flyers for the armies who don't have any at the moment.


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## Sworn Radical (Mar 10, 2011)

jaysen said:


> ... the books are so expensive and are uncommon.


Hardly ...

They're actually quite common nowadays, especially the later ones from IA9 onwards. Plus, Aeronautica will fill a huge gap and thus see even more use IMHO.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Sworn Radical said:


> Hardly ...
> 
> They're actually quite common nowadays, especially the later ones from IA9 onwards. Plus, Aeronautica will fill a huge gap and thus see even more use IMHO.


The books themselves are uncommon compared to everything else, and at £132 for Imperial Armour 9,10 and 11 that's pretty pricey as well. 

My problem with it is the Eldar Imperial Armour units are just flat better than the codex ones so if I want the best Eldar Army I can make with IA legal I need to use IA. Why do Vypers exist when Hornets are just better, same slot, pretty much same cost but better. Corsair ones are even better than that. 

In the end I have no problem using it and letting people use it but can people drop the incessant whining of 'It's LEGAL THOUGH' when it's not. If your opponent doesn't want to play against Imperial Armour suck it up.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> In the end I have no problem using it and letting people use it but can people drop the incessant whining of 'It's LEGAL THOUGH' when it's not. If your opponent doesn't want to play against Imperial Armour suck it up.


Forgeworld is no less legal than White Dwarf supplements. It's still a GW product made by GW with the intention of being used in the same game system as their regular products. It's the same kind of non-codex add-ons or alternate lists that allow different modes of play as any supplement really, these just come in hard backs and with custom models sometimes.

And by the same vein someone could say they don't want to play against Grey Knights, Necrons, or any other codex book too. It's just that people pitch a bigger fit about people wanting to play Forgeworld for some reason.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Zion said:


> Forgeworld is no less legal than White Dwarf supplements. It's still a GW product made by GW with the intention of being used in the same game system as their regular products. It's the same kind of non-codex add-ons or alternate lists that allow different modes of play as any supplement really, these just come in hard backs and with custom models sometimes.


And the White Dwarf supplement unit Night Spinner was not legal in GW tounries when it was released. Codex's are getting MRP'd to include the White Dwarf units at which point they become totally fine for all 40K play. The codexes are not getting MRP'd with Imperial Armour units. 

Imperial Armour is a supplement, like Spearhead and Planetstrike. 

Also the Imperial Armour books are explicitly made by Forgeworld, not Games Workshop. I look up the 40K books available to play 40K with on the GW Website I find every codex, not a single Imperial Armour book in that section. 

The rules are so official for standard play GW holds special tournies to allow you to use your Imperial Armour armies. Oh wait, why would they have to specify and badge it as an Imperial Armour tourney if they were totally, 100% legal. 



Zion said:


> And by the same vein someone could say they don't want to play against Grey Knights, Necrons, or any other codex book too. It's just that people pitch a bigger fit about people wanting to play Forgeworld for some reason.


If I've built a Codex : Eldar army I'm not playing on a level playing field if someone's using Imperial Armour. So as well as buying my codex I must drop £45 + models on Imperial Armour stuff if I want a fair shot. Do you not see why that's a bit wacky?


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

I have a contemptor curiosity and Fe drop pod that allows assault on arrival. No one ever agrees to let me play it.


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## Eleven (Nov 6, 2008)

Capussa said:


> Unfortunately humans have a tendancy to fear the unknown...


I'd say it has more to do with the fact that most people build their lists without giving themselves the option of imperial armour units. Whether or not the units are 'overpowered,' having the option to choose them gives you a tactical flexibility that the player who built his list without access to imperial armour didn't have. Thus, imperial armour is always an unfair advantage.

That being said, I will always allow my opponents to use imperial armour stuff because it is awesome and they should get their money's worth out of the overpriced bastards.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> And the White Dwarf supplement unit Night Spinner was not legal in GW tounries when it was released. Codex's are getting MRP'd to include the White Dwarf units at which point they become totally fine for all 40K play. The codexes are not getting MRP'd with Imperial Armour units.
> 
> _We're not talking about tournaments, but regular play. And not every WD supplement gets added in (Zealots for Sisters for example were never added to Codex: Witchhunters).
> _
> ...


In all seriousness, you don't NEED Forgeworld stuff, and to think that you do is a serious logical fallacy. With the way 6th Edition runs you have a lot of ways to add to your army if you're looking at helping buff your weaknesses that Forgeworld is not the only thing on your list.

If anything you sound whinier than the FW players since you're so damn adamant that FW CAN'T be legal.

Show me someone who spends the kind of stratch you need to build a GW army and I'll show you someone who really digs the fluff or play style of an army and is willing to pay extra to play that army. I've yet to hear of ANYONE who plays Forgeworld to try and be the skull-dragging WAAC players we see using the regular codexes. If anything the extra cost of the books and models make those kind of players pretty much unheard of.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I'm talking about all play, Casual and competitive. If you feel the need to pull out your 'It's 100% legal, made my GW so there' in casual play then you need to practice using your words more. Who cares if it's legal or not for casual play? 

Right now a Codex : Eldar army is just worse than an Imperial Armour one. If I play my Eldar army against an Imperial Armour one I'm at a disadvantage because their units are simply better than mine. That is just an objective fact. 

At the end of the day if you're all about the Fluff and not about being competitive why do you care if it's legal or not. Why are you trying to strong arm your opponents into playing you by browbeating them? Use your words and people will play you. 



Zion said:


> And in the same vein tournaments are known to have all sorts specific rules. No Special Characters. No more than 2 of any unit. Ect. Saying that you have a Tournament that allows FW is no different that saying you allow Special Characters.


No Special Characters is a change to the core rules, as is making Imperial Armour legal. So in that sense you are correct.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> I'm talking about all play, Casual and competitive. If you feel the need to pull out your 'It's 100% legal, made my GW so there' in casual play then you need to practice using your words more. Who cares if it's legal or not for casual play?
> 
> _Some people are VERY picky about what they'll play. Sure some folks will let you homebrew but most won't. Same goes for FW._
> 
> ...


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

If FW units are made legal then some one who uses them is hardly going to whine about it if their opponent is too much of a coward to play against them when there is little to no reason not to.

The rules should be made apparent and a copy provided if necessary, but that is simply politeness and should be done as a matter of course rather than as an exception, given the relative rarity of the books.
They are after all quite expensive and not everyone can afford them.

Alice


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

SGMAlice said:


> If FW units are made legal then some one who uses them is hardly going to whine about it if their opponent is too much of a coward to play against them when there is little to no reason not to.


See just throwing out words like coward are simple attempts to brow beat and make you look stupid at best. If one player is leveraging Imperial Armour units and one player is not then it's not a fair match up really, one player is using a subset of the units available to them and expecting to play against someone doing the same. 

Comparing Death Company Dread to Penitent engines really is idiotic though Zion as they're not even for the same army, unlike Vypers and Hornets say.


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## SGMAlice (Aug 13, 2010)

No attempt was made nor intended, but it did have the effect i WAS intending. It was said simply to emphasise my point that there is little to no reason not to play against them. If the game is made 'Blind' (turn up and play) then bringing FW is probably a bad idea as few people expect it, but if the game is arranged or the person is known then the expectation is there.

The general consensus that FW units are over powered is silly at best and blatant ignorance at worst. Carried on by those with little to no experience with FW units. Many are over costed for their role/equipment and likely detract from the rest of the army's available pool of points.
'I don't want to' is personal preference rather than a solid reason not to and anyone using that in such a way is being facile.

Ignorance gets one few places. How about trying to understand FW and its units before making snap judgements based on general consensus.

Alice

P. S. That last sentence is aimed at the general gaming view rather than at anyone in particular.


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## Sworn Radical (Mar 10, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> If your opponent doesn't want to play against Imperial Armour suck it up.


True. But in the end both players should always agree to the terms of the upcoming game, otherwise it probably wouldn't be fun for either. What I mean by that is simply, if my opponent doesn't want to play vs. FW / IA units that's fine. But no one's forcing me to play against Codex Grey Knights either, do you get my point ? Of course that's not the case in a tourney where regular codicees are used but probably no FW stuff, but in a casual game both (or all) participants should agree to / be happy with the stuff (supplements, scenarios) that's being used anyways. Communication and mutual interest to have an interesting game is the key here. After all, most of us play the game to enjoy it ...


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Sworn Radical said:


> True. But in the end both players should always agree to the terms of the upcoming game, otherwise it probably wouldn't be fun for either. What I mean by that is simply, if my opponent doesn't want to play vs. FW / IA units that's fine. But no one's forcing me to play against Codex Grey Knights either, do you get my point ? Of course that's not the case in a tourney where regular codicees are used but probably no FW stuff, but in a casual game both (or all) participants should agree to / be happy with the stuff (supplements, scenarios) that's being used anyways. Communication and mutual interest to have an interesting game is the key here. After all, most of us play the game to enjoy it ...


Oh absolutely, when you're playing a game you all need to agree what is what. But just trying to counter balance the inevitable calls of coward and whiner when people don't want to play against Imperial Armour. 

I play Codex Eldar and generally we don't use Imperial Armour but one of my friends want to use Vultures etc for an Imperial Armour Guard army. I'm not going to play my normal Codex Eldar against that, why would I? I'll be using Nightwings and Hornets because they're simply better than the Codex choices.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> See just throwing out words like coward are simple attempts to brow beat and make you look stupid at best. If one player is leveraging Imperial Armour units and one player is not then it's not a fair match up really, one player is using a subset of the units available to them and expecting to play against someone doing the same.


If I choose to supplement my army with, say the Avenger instead of allying in guard for Vendettas I'm not excepting you to do the same, I'm just choosing an option that is available to me.

The way your argument reads is like saying that Player A like Allies for their army and uses them and expects Player B to do the same. It's not that simple. Player B may decide they like playing their army better with no allies. Does this immediately make Player A's army better? No. List composition is only a facet of what it takes to play the game well and if you get too hung up on that point you'll lose far more often than you win.



Aramoro said:


> Comparing Death Company Dread to Penitent engines really is idiotic though Zion as they're not even for the same army, unlike Vypers and Hornets say.


Not in the same army but similar enough that the comparison isn't one that should be discarded so flippantly. 

Some FW specific units (like Krieg Thudd Guns) are only available in specific armies (for this example Krieg). Now they may be the same race, but they're not the same army. Same goes for some other FW stuff. Paring a FW specific codex against a generic one doesn't mean you have a difference in power level, it means you have a different army that shares SOME basic similarities with the other.

They can even have the same kinds of things, but approach them differently (for example Krieg brings stationary Artillery Platforms instead of mobile Artillery Tanks that guard have). This would be why I compared to similar, but not identical options from two different codexes. It's the same kind of thing that can happen when you pair up two similar armies, one FW and one not. 

Besides, you never throw your strengths against theirs if they're better at it, you play smart and manipulate the field to play. 

In short: power levels are bullshit, and if you get too caught up on what fancy toy someone brings you'll never really enjoy the game. Play to have fun, not to get your knickers in a twist because someone took the time to build the Red Scorpions, or a Death Korps of Krieg army, or took a flyer or AA gun to balance their army with current meta.

Yes, FW Eldar are currently better than regular Eldar (at least on paper, and I don't really know how much they go points wise so I'm taking your word that somehow FW has stuff that is better and more cost effective than the regular codex books). When regular Eldar roll back around though FW Eldar will fall into place along with the rest of the FW armies out there: generally more points heavy than their counterparts and less effective. 

FW isn't the ultra-competitive player's tool to success, they're options for players who like strong fluff based armies, or just want to take their army places that they couldn't before (like Areonautica).

Ask to see the rules, ask questions on what you don't get, but most importantly realize that someone took the time and money to get some models the liked and wants to use the rules to go with them. And if that's the case it's not really fair to that other player to tell them no just because those rules come from Forgeworld instead of a standard codex.

EDIT: Apparently I need to stop taking so long to write up these novels I call posts. That or take up blogging.



Aramoro said:


> I play Codex Eldar and generally we don't use Imperial Armour but one of my friends want to use Vultures etc for an Imperial Armour Guard army. I'm not going to play my normal Codex Eldar against that, why would I? I'll be using Nightwings and Hornets because they're simply better than the Codex choices.


To be fair with your example you'd probably do the same for Vendettas just because you don't have any fliers otherwise.


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

This argument is why i had to buy a cadian army and not the death korps that i wanted. People at my LGS basically bullied me into buying standard cadian cause everyone in that store is a bunch of wusses and will only play when they know they will win. Since i come from RTS games on the computer, this is by far the biggest spoiler of table top gaming. In RTS i click auto match and people cant just quit cause they see my name. If they did, i get a win to my account and they get a loss. In TT people will just flat out not play with you, making that expensive FW army now a shelf piece. 

Long story short, why doesn't GW just make FW stuff count as GW stuff to end this argument? Why does FW exist if it cant be used?


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

I apply a simple division to games based on purpose:

_Playing for fun_ (wet afternoons, spending time with friends, re-fighting a famous battle, &c.): both sides have an army and we play

_Playing for a meaningful win_(tournaments, bragging rights, testing a new army, &c.): both sides know what is acceptable before building lists.

So, I will usually be fine with Forgeworld units, but might not accept someone bringing a Forgeworld unit without prior warning to anything other than a friendly game.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

*forehead smack* I missed this post earlier when it went to a new page:


andrewm9 said:


> To be fair my store used to actually encourage the use of FW, except for the occasional tourney (depended on who ran it), now the players are 50/50 since the local 40K scene has been reduced.
> 
> Two Avengers? Wow! Thats more than 260 dollars plus shipping at current exchange rate. I admit I have more than that invested in my Sister and Guard armies, but thats steep.


Good to hear that the scene is getting better then. 

$260 (plus free shipping since a couple other guys pitched in and we made it a group order) was cheaper than the $300 start up cost of a Vostroyan army. Granted Vostroyans look cool and I may start them some day because I dig their models and all (though the hats ARE a LITTLE silly), right now I'm wholly dedicated to my Sisters and was more than willing to keep going with them instead of doing a second all metal army.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Aramoro said:


> I play Codex Eldar and generally we don't use Imperial Armour but one of my friends want to use Vultures etc for an Imperial Armour Guard army. I'm not going to play my normal Codex Eldar against that, why would I? I'll be using Nightwings and Hornets because they're simply better than the Codex choices.


But you would play your normal codex against normal Imperial Guard? If I brought a thunderbolt you would freak out? Even with the Vendetta being 2-3X better than anything in Aeronautica book.

That's just blind stubborness. Few FW units can compare to what's in the standard codices.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Taggerung said:


> But you would play your normal codex against normal Imperial Guard? If I brought a thunderbolt you would freak out? Even with the Vendetta being 2-3X better than anything in Aeronautica book.
> 
> That's just blind stubborness. Few FW units can compare to what's in the standard codices.


No, I would make an Imperial Armour list to play against you. I'm not going to voluntarily hamstring myself and play a Codex army when my opponent isn't. If someone's playing a Codex Imperial Guard army I will play a Codex army. Few units can compare to Codex ones but the ones that can are really really good, and those are the ones people will play.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> No, I would make an Imperial Armour list to play against you. I'm not going to voluntarily hamstring myself and play a Codex army when my opponent isn't. If someone's playing a Codex Imperial Guard army I will play a Codex army. Few units can compare to Codex ones but the ones that can are really really good, and those are the ones people will play.


Your logic doesn't make much sense. You'll claim that it's hamstringing yourself if you play against FW without FW but it's not if you face similiar units with them using FW.

I'm sorry but if you're facing flyers you're at an equal disadvantage regardless of the source with your codex. To claim that a regular codex somehow makes it more fair to play against without FW is incredibly silly.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

That's not what I said, playing any list without access to Imperial Armour is hamstringing yourself, even if you don't ultimately take any of them. More choices makes better lists.

But it's about playing your best game within the limits defined by the game. By default the game is what's written in the Brb and the units from the Codex. As it happens Elder are weaker against flyers without Imperial Armour but thems the breaks.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Aramoro said:


> No, I would make an Imperial Armour list to play against you. I'm not going to voluntarily hamstring myself and play a Codex army when my opponent isn't. If someone's playing a Codex Imperial Guard army I will play a Codex army. Few units can compare to Codex ones but the ones that can are really really good, and those are the ones people will play.


I see what you mean, in that if someone brings FW you want to bring it as well, which is fair. However if someone at a friendly pick up game said "I play a FW list, do you care?" Would you turn them down just because you don't have any FW units with you??


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Taggerung said:


> I see what you mean, in that if someone brings FW you want to bring it as well, which is fair. However if someone at a friendly pick up game said "I play a FW list, do you care?" Would you turn them down just because you don't have any FW units with you??


Depends what it is really, if it's some sort of all flying all the time list probably as that's not going to be a fun game for me at all.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Aramoro said:


> Depends what it is really, if it's some sort of all flying all the time list probably as that's not going to be a fun game for me at all.


Well that wouldn't be fun for anyone Forge World or not. If someone dropped a 6 flier necron army out in front of me, I would just shake hands and walk away before really playing. The point I was getting at is that whether it is a Forge World army, Draigowing, or a Vendetta spam. Regardless of the codex, people who want to play cheesy lists will play cheesy lists.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

ARMYguy said:


> This argument is why i had to buy a cadian army and not the death korps that i wanted. People at my LGS basically bullied me into buying standard cadian cause everyone in that store is a bunch of wusses and will only play when they know they will win. Since i come from RTS games on the computer, this is by far the biggest spoiler of table top gaming. In RTS i click auto match and people cant just quit cause they see my name. If they did, i get a win to my account and they get a loss. In TT people will just flat out not play with you, making that expensive FW army now a shelf piece.


That's your fault, not theirs. Nobody, but nobody, can force you to buy an army unless you give up and give in to their petty whining. You could have easily used Krieg models for a Guard list. Also a bad analogy with RTS:

If, by some extreme mistranslation of data, I could face you using a Lights of the Warp army (but with 20 cap) when you were using a standard Dark Crusade force, you'd get a better analogy. I'd be playing Guard, but simply better due to Inquisition units and tank variants. You'd be able to take two LRBTs. I could take 4 Vanquishers. You could get a Baneblade. I could take a Shadowsword, which is blatantly overpowered in LotW.

Aramoro's example of Hornets and Vypers is the best. Hornets really are just better. Hell, Corsairs are probably just better than Eldar due to Relentless Missiles with JSJ for Troops, and Hornets.

Midnight


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## Capussa (Jun 22, 2012)

GW use FW as a test bed for some concepts and based on their popularity they move into the GW mainstream, for example

The Baneblade, Valkyrie, Hydra, Medusa, Manticore, Vanquisher & Executioner all were introduced by FW in IA1, all are now in codex guard with the exception of the baneblade which is in Apocalypse and all are improved on the original rules and generally cheaper


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

MidnightSun said:


> That's your fault, not theirs. Nobody, but nobody, can force you to buy an army unless you give up and give in to their petty whining. You could have easily used Krieg models for a Guard list. Also a bad analogy with RTS:
> 
> If, by some extreme mistranslation of data, I could face you using a Lights of the Warp army (but with 20 cap) when you were using a standard Dark Crusade force, you'd get a better analogy. I'd be playing Guard, but simply better due to Inquisition units and tank variants. You'd be able to take two LRBTs. I could take 4 Vanquishers. You could get a Baneblade. I could take a Shadowsword, which is blatantly overpowered in LotW.
> 
> ...


Yes you are right, i could have. I just didn't for various reasons. Of course there is nothing stopping me from collecting them now and slowly selling and phasing out my standard cadians, or keep the cadians for tournaments as i don't know if FW is allowed at those. Good points on the RTS comments too, i was just raging that day.


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## urza5589 (Jul 11, 2012)

This argument is silly... I play Tau/Eldar and would not demand that somone play non-IA because im Codex then i would demand they play a 4th Ed codex because im 4th? I would take my chances over IA eldar then 6th Necrons any day of the week... there is always things that are cheesy/broken/op... if somone brins them and your not feeling it walk away. That is a valid point, applying it specificly to FW is a poor notion. Games that i wont play are regardless of what the front of there rulebook says. 

People that are fun to play with Codex armies are fun to play with IA armies and people that are not are not, and i dont play people when its not fun. Enough said.


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