# Haters are gonna Hate: Traitors Hate



## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

Well the book is out. What do people want to say about it? Personally I think it's given us a new solid foundation to build off. The psychics make roads to fixing our delivery problems and the core choices give us some interesting features. Although these aren't game breaking, they can definitely give you a boost in the long war. 
Yes, by now everyone knows that the traitors are gonna hate>, but at least we now hate all the corpse gods minions. And the old vets +1 LD for free. Also we now have mechanics to actually use the boon table to boost our champions. In a game I played, by turn 2 my jugger Lord was rocking t6 eternal warrior +save Fnp and Fleet.
I think ob sec for your entire warband is another bonus not to be sniffed at. 
And finally we can actually do something with warp talons and raptors. The ability to charge after deep strike gives a point to warp Talon blind drop. Stick the lord here and they get the much needed assault grenades. This formation can tear apart backfield heavy support like devs and artillery.
I also like the terminaters formation 
Deep strike and shoot then shoot again. Gives you some options. The daemon engine one seems meh to me but I have never ran multiple fiends. Where as the cult of destruction looks pretty good to me, pulling mutilaters out of the dull drums and in to a unit that can do some damage in combat.
Personally I think the only really bad thing in the book is the Lord of skulls and its formation. But if you so happen to have 3 kytans it's pretty good. 
All in all I think if you're a long term chaos player, it has brought CSM back into the game. But hay this is just some of my opinions, what does the heresy sphere think?


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

I like the book and the options - There's plenty of shenanigans to be pulled and combined with cabals, daemons and the like, it can be a really devastating book. 

I have also accepted that unless we get a Skyhammer Ultra formation, people will bitch and complain until next year. I don't really care about the whiners anymore to be honest - I focus on enjoying my games. Chaos have always worked for me, even in a competitive scene and this book only amplifiers their power.

This traitor is very happy. 

(Pssst... Also note the Fenris part 2 that has Tzeentch Silver Towers artwork in it. Do you honestly believe this is the last we will get?)


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

Not at all nordicus :wink2:
With rumours of the daemon primarks returning and the resculpt of karne, the elder dude and ulric , I'm pretty sure that abbadon and co will be getting some love. Also I suspect as this chaos direction advances we may see something for the legion warband out in the future.
But like you say Nord my experience with chaos has not been that of the stereotypical csm player as I have definitely won more than I've lost. It's more how we seem to get token gesture updates as opposed to Gw putting some effort in that's left me salty. 
But from looking at what you can do with it, I kind of think the Galaxy is your oyster. 
Hell it even gives us ways to fight super heavys and armour with out taking a knight.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

DaisyDuke said:


> And finally we can actually do something with warp talons and raptors. The ability to charge after deep strike gives a point to warp Talon blind drop. Stick the lord here and they get the much needed assault grenades. This formation can tear apart backfield heavy support like devs and artillery.


Hi - I've been out of the loop with chaos for a while - can models without the demon special rule join a unit with the rule?
That and I always thought assault grenades only affected the model carrying them?


If that's not the case, my chaos lord and 10 warp talons may become good friends quite soon :grin2: 


I can't wait to use this book - The raptors, the hellpack and the warband all fit the models I like using anyway.
I've been using the BL relics - this will help get me some more mileage on them. Even though they're overpriced... 


TBH, I don't see too much what the fuss is when it comes to chaos being bad. I find them easier to use than my CWE :shrug:
Blast masters, Helldrakes, Oblits, and a 10 man MoS termie squad led by Abaddon has surprised a good few people.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Gret79 said:


> Hi - I've been out of the loop with chaos for a while - can models without the demon special rule join a unit with the rule?
> That and I always thought assault grenades only affected the model carrying them?
> 
> 
> If that's not the case, my chaos lord and 10 warp talons may become good friends quite soon :grin2:


Sure they can - The misunderstanding is usually because of the Deamon Codex, where it states that any model without the "Demonic Instability" rule cannot join the daemon unit. Seeing as all Daemons in the Daemon codex has the "Daemonic Instability" rule, people often think that you cannot join any Daemon unit at all, including those with the rule "Demon". 

Alas all Daemons in the Chaos Space Marine book does not have this rule (as it is unique to the Daemons codex), so they can be joined by pretty much anything.

It's a popular misconception though, so don't worry about it


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I really dig Traitor's Hate. The psychic powers alone make the book worth it. I'm a pretty casual guy when it comes to games, so I'm kind of indifferent to a lot of the whining that's gone on with Chaos Space Marines for the last couple years. They stand up fine on the table in average games. Sure, they have issues in the dick measuring contests that are NOVA and ITC events, but you can't judge an army by how it does in that environment since they house rule the shit out of the game anyway. But, if you're more inclined to look at things purely from a competitive standpoint, sorcerers picked up answers to problematic units across the board-- there's a lot of anti-vehicle stuff, whether it be haywire or not, some very powerful buffs, and a couple really ugly debuffs that all are essentially a dark mirror of the Angels of Death powers. Sorcerers always felt fairly mandatory in a Chaos Space Marine army purely because the army needs some of the heavy lifting they can do, but they're way too good not to bring now given the boost from Traitors' Hate. l

I also really dig the formations. I'm really partial to The Lost and the Damned and the Raptor Pack, though-- in both cases, it just makes the units that compose those formations do what they do so much better. I always liked Warp Talons, but Warp Talons popping up, charging out of deep strike, AND causing a blind test on anything nearby, possibly at a negative leadership modifier because of the formation, seems really, really good. As for the Cultists in The Lost and the Damned formation... Cultists are kind of the ultimate babysitter unit for objectives, and if somebody takes the time to just totally murder a unit of 10 cultists, then who cares? They come right back and have a decent shot of being able to come right back in near that objective they were just kicked off of. Hope somebody's got objective secured! Speaking of which, the Black Crusade formation gives all units Objective Secured, which is a helpful boost.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Nordicus said:


> Sure they can - The misunderstanding is usually because of the Deamon Codex, where it states that any model without the "Demonic Instability" rule cannot join the daemon unit. Seeing as all Daemons in the Daemon codex has the "Daemonic Instability" rule, people often think that you cannot join any Daemon unit at all, including those with the rule "Demon".
> 
> Alas all Daemons in the Chaos Space Marine book does not have this rule (as it is unique to the Daemons codex), so they can be joined by pretty much anything.
> 
> It's a popular misconception though, so don't worry about it


Thank you, that's the best news I've had in ages :grin2:


I can't wait to get my chaos back out again now!


Of the new disciplines I really want to try heretech and sinistrum. I think heretech will synergise with the raptor formation quit nicely. I can bring less HS, use the sorcerer to attack a transport and then hopefully stab the contents to death with warp talons and raptors.


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