# Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields



## DrinCalhar (Jul 10, 2010)

I play CSM and my friend just got a Termi squad with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields. Nothing I do seems to stand up to them. Other the a DP with lash what could help me defeat the Termis here.


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## hippypancake (Jul 14, 2010)

if its a five man squad you might want to find something in your army that ignores invo saves if any


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## Kirby (May 16, 2010)

Crush the rest of his force! Is he using an LR to deliver them? You can use sac melta to try and slow the Raider but this is on of the reasons CSM are so-so, no blockers or uber cc death even though they are supposed to be more cc than SM... Shooting them is your best bet and plop units you don't mind losing in front of them. Nothing you throw at them in combat is really going to do well and if even a couple of the Termies survive they'll drop a hammer on you.


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## BucketWalrus (Jul 14, 2010)

The only sure-fire way to defeat such a squad is to fire EVERYTHING (even though he gets a retarded 3+invuln) 

the best trick is to shoot low AP stuff at him (5 plasma chosens work nicely) and use a lash to drag the unit around preferably out of the 12 inch LOLASSAULT range of a terminator squad.


Though ignoring the terms and killing the rest of his army works just as nicely


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

9 Zerkers (8 + champ with PF) and Kharn in a Land Raider.

32 normal attacks
- 21.33 hit
- 14.22 wound
- 2.37 failed saves

7 PW attacks
- 5.833 hit
- 4.861 wound
- 1.62 failed saves

That leaves them with 1 terminator left, before they get to attack.
They strike simultaniously to your PF.

They have 2 attacks
- 1 hit
- 0.833 wounds
- 0.833 dead berzerkers

Kharn will hurt your own models too
- 7 attacks
- 1.17 hits
- 0.97 wounds
- 0.97 dead berzerkers

Then your powerfist strikes
- 4 attacks
- 2.67 hits
- 2.22 wounds
- 0.74 failed saves



2.37 + 1.62 + 0.74 = 4.73 dead terminators
0.97 + 0.83 = 1.80 dead berzerkers

You are better off only killing 4 terminators rather than 5, as this would mean the berzerkers wouldnt be able to be shot at in the opponents turn, and you can easily finish the last terminator off before it can strike back.
In fact, i would consider only running 8 berzerkers (7 plus a champ with fist) and Kharn, rather than 9 and Kharn.


Oh, almost forgot, take shooting into account too...

9 pistols
- 6 hit
- 3 wound
- 0.5 failed saves.

1 Plasma
- 0.833 hit
- 0.694 wound
- 0.23 failed saves

4.73 + 0.5 + 0.23 = 5.46 dead terminators
In fact, there would be a good chance you would destroy all 5 without any of them attacking, meaning on average you will only lose 1 berzerker, and that would be from Kharns attacks.
This also doesnt take into account any other weapons in your army that you target at them.


The one problem is that it leaves the unit vulnerable to enemy shooting for a turn, so i would be careful with how you go about it.
It also requires you to use a "bait" unit to try and lure the terminators out of their metal box.


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## BucketWalrus (Jul 14, 2010)

LOOK! RHI.. I MEAN LAND RAIDERS!, THOSE TERMINATORS ARE HIDING IN A MEHTAL BAWKS!.. Weh.. hmmehh. WEH SHOOD TAEK AWAY DER MEHTAL BAWKS!

3oblits using their lascannon (or multi-melta) should be enough to stun/wreck the landraider on a single turn if your lucky (plus since hes got 400+pts of guys, you could prolly afford two squads of 3 oblits for the same price!


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Kill the transport and then avoid them. They only have a charge range of 12 inches so you can avoid them fairly easily whilst you whittle down the rest of his army.

Lascannon or melta his landraider which he will be using to transport them and then forget about them, they will take a while to run upto you and if your mechanized just run away

If you have no choice but to kill them, then obliterators with plasma cannons or twin linked plasma rifles will deal.

a 3+ invun seems extreme but meh we kill enough marines and they only have one wound so when you get through the armour they are going down.

I was surprised by the beserkers stats against them, that was fairly impressive too so that could be another option, though i personally take dislike kharn, he's badass but i think special charactors are in general overpointed


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Shoot the LR down, and then saturate with Noise Marine fire. Who cares it's a 2+ save, many many hits will have them fail eventually, and if they're walking, likely they'll die soon enuff for anyoney!


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## Dugong (Apr 13, 2008)

deathbringer said:


> Kill the transport and then avoid them. They only have a charge range of 12 inches so you can avoid them fairly easily whilst you whittle down the rest of his army.


No offence but, no. I think you need to do the opposite.

I fight a SM player who fields Vulcan and assult terminators and although he does not use a land raider the squad must be destroyed.

Ranged weapons to an extent are good, but if you're using obliterators i'd only shoot at them if there was nothing else worth shooting at, with a 2+ save and 3+ invun it's not worth it. with high ap shots you're not going to force enough saves and high ap shots don't have enough impact.

First things first, we need to get rid of the land raider. he's definately going to charge that thing straight towards you and in a way such that you can't ignore it. Your two main options are to either destroy it first or give him bait.

To shoot it down you'll need melta or ordinance, vindicators can do very well and serve as a good distraction tank. deepstriking terminators with combi-meltas should do it as long as you have an icon nearby. PM riding in rhinos can pop it through the firing port and so on. I wouldn't reccomend using lascannons since it's 6's to pen and your oblits probably have other high priority targets to shoot. Although don't try to destry it in cc. only your dp's have a good chance at killing it and he'll just get counter assulted which is bad.

Currently at 2000pts i have all of the options i mentioned above which allows me to deal with multiple land raiders with a little luck (you always need a little when facing one).

The second option is to use bait, eg a PH squad in a rhino with meltas. just run up in front of it and start shooting, he's scared of the melta and will destoy the rhino and then assult the pm's inside. either way they must get out of the raider.

Once this is done the single best way of killing them is through cc. prefably assult him with multiple units such as demon princes and khorne berzerkers. Kharn is a very good choice for this and i loved using him in exactly this situation but remember he's not immune to instand death so only use him if you're confident that the squad will be destroyed before they strike back.

A simble rule of thumb for me is for 6 assult termis or less use 1 dp and a squad of at least 8 berzerkers (my champ has a p/wep rather then p/fist which i explained in a different thread but it's basicly because i don't want the berzerkers charging vehicles hence i don't need it).

Now if you use kharn that would replace a dp so in my opinion kharn and a squad of berzerkers on the charge will kill the squad. if it's a rather large assult terminator squad or has a dangerous IC, then i'd assult with another berzerker squad and/or another dp, preferably one with warptime. The best way to ensure all these squads assult at the same time is to use rhinos and have them near the land raider when you start shooting at it (but don't disembark before the thing is destroyed even if it means waiting a turn. you don't want your guys in the open to find out you didn't destroy it in the shooting phase) or to have your rhinos nearby to your bait unit since you can disembark, move then assult providing the rhino did not move.

Either way the best rule of thumb is to attack it with melta or ordinance to destroy the raider and assult the contents. if you're having difficulty destroying the raider then set up a counter assult for when he does get out.


Good luck


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Your advice is solid, I'm a tau player, avoidance is what im good at and I've found its more than possible if your mech'd up.

Smash the land raider from afar and then scatter, he is slow 6 inches plus run a turn so in one burst your away from him into other targets leaving him chasing you, wasting time.

You can make 200 odd points of his army totally redundant as it has no shooting ability. Then when you have dealt with the other threats you can take on that nasty 200 on your own terms with the remenants of your army

Then again i have railguns so the odds of me killing a land raider on turn one are pretty high making it even worse as he has to slog across the board before i scatter.

Plus with avoidance there is less chance of bad dice rolls fucking you up. Say you dont slay them and they get to strike back, a couple of termies with thunderhammers hitting your daemon prince i dont like those odds even though he is immune to insant death.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Regarding Tau, 2 squads of Fire Warriors rapid firing with some Markerlight assistance will wipe out a unit of TH/SS Termies.


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## BucketWalrus (Jul 14, 2010)

as everyone has said, pump enough shots into them and they will go down (2+ armor or 3+invuln, youll get em eventually)

use a lash to bunch em up (and move em away, even more funny if you manage to pin them on the test), let loose all frag missiles and plasma cannons on the easy target (hell if you some how got a flamer as well, its extra wounds so go ahead and use it!) let loose any pistols from a charging squad, bolters/specials from others. and if they STILL aren't dead, mop them up with the assaulter squad.

yes its Overkill, but if it means you just killed the greatest threat in the battle, then FUCK YEAH!


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