# Which Dark Eldar units are good?



## turel2 (Mar 2, 2009)

Hi, I'm a DE noob and I was wondering which DE units are worth having in your army?


----------



## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

Ravagers immediately spring to mind, some would say two are alright, most would say every army needs three, which takes up all your Heavy Support slots, but whatever. I would say at least two, but were I to make a Dark Eldar army I'd take three, two with Dark Lances and one with Destroyers.

Wyches are always nice, get them into Close Combat quick and they can cause some major damage if kitted out right, but leave them out in the open and they'll die within two turns (if you're lucky).

Incubi and Archon unit of death are an obvious choice, stick them in a Raider and barrel them into pretty much whichever enemy unit you want to die, they'll take out Terminators, Wraithguard, Plague Marines, whatever you want. Don't make the Archon too pricey though, he's got a good statline, he just needs a good weapon (Agoniser, much?) and some armour.

Edit: Oh, also, Lelith Hesperax makes a nasty special character if you want to use her, just don't throw her into too many big boys. Keep her with a squad of Wyches and charge them into infantry squads and she'll make mincemeat of them (9+ power weapon attacks against Space Marines? Yes, please). She probably will die before the end of the game, but she'll kill stuff.


----------



## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

DE are tricky. there are multiple ways to play them, though 2 or 3 ravagers are a must.

Each unit has a place in the army more or less, and it more depends on HOW YOU want to play the army that chooses what other units are brought.

Wytches in raiders is a general one
Warriors in venoms is another list that people like to employ

I love Incubi, but they can... and are... serious fire magnets. anything they get into CC with will die almost assuridly, but they cost quite abit and can be gunned down fairly easily.

if you want to go cheap HQ, a bare haemonculi is the creature of choice.

if you want an ultra killy HQ, archon with shadow field, combat drugs, and an agonizer are it.


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Why not simply go for the ones you like?


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

yeah how do Wracks with Haemoncula stack up?


----------



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> yeah how do Wracks with Haemoncula stack up?


Dead on turn One. Against me they will be at least.


----------



## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

The DE codex is unique in that it has no "turds" that noone will ever use because of being overpriced or straight bad. Some units are overpriced slightly, like Hellions for example. But nothing as bad as Tau Stealth Suits/ Vespid, or Eldar Swooping Hawks.

But probably the best, most points efficient DE builds will have lots of Kabalites/ Trueborn with special weapons.

A wych swarm (note, it has to be a SWARM) could do well too.

But as previously pointed out, 3 Ravagers are pretty much mandatory until the Void Raven hits the shelves.


----------



## HereticHammer01 (Apr 29, 2011)

Trueborn are probably worth taking as they're basically more elite DE warriors so can do the job even better. As has been said wyches in raiders are pretty deadly. For me I'd definitely take an archon with incubi retinue. As has been said above though the dark eldar codex is arguably one of the best currently because much of the unit choices in it are viable. The next wave shouldn't very far away now so you could wait to see if any new cool units come out you may want to use.


----------



## turel2 (Mar 2, 2009)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> The DE codex is unique in that it has no "turds" that noone will ever use because of being overpriced or straight bad.


Wow, that must be a first lol
ty for your info :drinks:


----------



## Kenny3760 (Jan 5, 2007)

Units that I've found to work well include 
Trueborn with blasters in venoms with extra splinter cannon. 
Ravagers with 3 Dark Lances and flickerfield. 
Baron and a massive unit of Hellions. 
Wyches, either a unit of 10 in a raider or MSU's in venoms with extra splinter cannon. 
A Duke/Baron combo HQ with units of wyches, hellions and reavers can be pretty funny as well.

I haven't found a use for incubi yet, don't need to get into HtH to kill infantry now, thats what poison is for. Lelith, I haven't found that great, 9 attacks against a unit of marines is only 6 hits and 2 kills, not that great really. Although with a unit of wyches she does become a great tarpit against almost anything.

Haemonculus and wracks provide pain tokens for my army and an extra troops choice, little else.


----------



## TraceofToxin (Jan 26, 2010)

A better question would be, which DE units are bad?

Grotesques
Mandrakes
Succubus

Grotesques mainly because they have no PW option. Mandrakes because they have no grenades, no PW option, and cost too much. Succubus because it cannot get a shadowfield or a huskblade/soul trap.

Even still, they all have their uses. Grotesques are serious bullet sponges, Mandrakes are the only infiltrating unit available and have a 5++, Succubus are cheap with a 4++ in CC standard. None of them are as bad as say... a pyrovore, vespid, etc. They're all still completely viable and useful units.

Phil Kelley is pretty good at writing a codex without too much useless crap. Cruddace should take notes.


----------



## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

@TraceofToxin

Have to disagree with you on the Grotesques, S/T 5 with 3 wounds and attacks each. Abberation with scissorhand has 7 attacks on the charge.

They dont need power weapons because of the amount of attacks they kick out and the sheer amount of wounds with FnP.


----------



## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

I realize now his original question wasn't "which are bad", but "which are good".

So my opinion, rules wise, is that the best unit in the entire codex are the Scourges. When we finally get the models, we don't have to spam the cardboard ravagers to deal with armor anymore.

Second, the Cronos Parasite Engine. Ever faced Space Marine Razerspam lists? Well, now you have a buttload of dark lance shots with Scourges, and Scourges are fast attack. That opens up 3 Heavy Support slots to the Cronos, which is the ultimate Marine slayer (it has toughness 7, a 3+ save, and an AP3 flamer... yeah.)

So I predict a lot of lists will change when these models come out. DE will pretty much be the anti MEq army of choice. Use Scourges to pop the boxes, use the Cronos to mop up the survivors. Profit.

But this is entirely my opinion.


----------



## TraceofToxin (Jan 26, 2010)

effigy22 said:


> @TraceofToxin
> 
> Have to disagree with you on the Grotesques, S/T 5 with 3 wounds and attacks each. Abberation with scissorhand has 7 attacks on the charge.
> 
> They dont need power weapons because of the amount of attacks they kick out and the sheer amount of wounds with FnP.


Like I said, they're not BAD, but compared to the rest of the book? Yeah, they're not that great. They suffer from Ogryn syndrome. They look good on paper, but compared to other options in the book, they're lacking. Not to say they're useless and no one should ever use them, but there are stronger choices.

A lack of a PW means against most dedicated CC units of the same value they'll lose combat. The lack of fleet means they have trouble dictating where the fights will take place and hitting softer targets (Which Wracks, Incubi and wyches can all take out just as easily for cheaper). That delegates them to being bodyguards (Which is what they are better at than anything else in the codex) and tarpits (Which Wyches/beastmaster units are both better at).


----------



## Abomination (Jul 6, 2008)

To be fair all the units are pretty good. I would say the stand-outs would be Wyches, Kabal Warriors, Ravagers and Incubi. As for special characters the sinfully sexy Lelith Hesperax kicks alot of ass.


----------



## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Abomination said:


> To be fair all the units are pretty good. I would say the stand-outs would be Wyches, Kabal Warriors, Ravagers and Incubi. As for special characters the sinfully sexy Lelith Hesperax kicks alot of ass.


Wyches and Ravagers (only by default though, since we don't have Scourges yet) are the only ones you mentioned that would be a good idea to bring to a tournament. Lelith looks alot better on paper than she really is. Kabalites are better in their Elite versions (Trueborn - one of the main ways to deal with enemy armor) 

- and Incubi are completely pointless as they:

1) Compete with Kabalite Trueborn for Elites
2) Gets focused and om nom nommed before they ever get to do anything.
3) Are very expensive.

I agree that nothing is "bad", but Wyches trump Kabalites for troops and Trueborn trumps Incubi for elites (by far). Eventually, Scourges and Cronos Parasite Engines will make Ravagers at least partially obsolete-ish.

When it comes to Special Characters, Duke Sliscus is the powerhouse by far.


----------



## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Handkerchief... first off...

scourge, they look good on paper, but have you tried them in game? to make full use of any kind of AA they have, even with 5 units, you pay MORE for them then you would for a ravager. the ravager may be a paper plane but a paper plane that can sit in cover and use TLOS to its advantage is better then a small swarm of space elves who get ID killed very easily.

115 for a ravager
140 for blaster scourge 5 man unit, DOUBLE that for the 10 man unit.

sorry but scourge are NOT that great thanks to their point cost.

As for Incubi, You are insulting them as if they are a shitty unit. you could not be more wrong. I had my incubi multi charge 2 assault marine squads and they wiped BOTH out in one turn, well, damaged both squads made both run, and ran down both squads, but its the same thing. 

ill give you some points to counter your current thinking about incubi.
1. they may get focused, but if they do not eat through atleast one enemy unit, you are playing terribly wrong.
2. They are no more expensive then scourge, which you seem to love, and yet they have a better armor save, an amazing power weapon, and if you take the onslaught upgrade, they will almost definately kill one or two units if you play your cards right.

As for your trueborn comment, TRUEBORN ARE ONLY GOOD if you are running venom spam list and lack AA and you take one or two squads of them to take out some armor, OR, paying the extra to get the extra shooting from shard carbines.


----------



## TraceofToxin (Jan 26, 2010)

Complete agreement with Khainite.

Scourge are awesome, but they cost way too much. When you figure they get less shots at less range for more cost... Plus not having 3x Ravager means that's 3 less AT targets for your opponents. Unless you're running a foot list... you want your troop vehicles alive as long as possible to get to objectives. Losing all your ravagers isn't that bad as long as you've de-meched the majority of your opponent.

I don't think I value Incubi as highly as he does, but they are far from shitty. They have their own unique problems, but I still find they are very good at what they do - mow through MEQ.


----------



## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> Handkerchief... first off...
> 
> scourge, they look good on paper, but have you tried them in game? to make full use of any kind of AA they have, even with 5 units, you pay MORE for them then you would for a ravager. the ravager may be a paper plane but a paper plane that can sit in cover and use TLOS to its advantage is better then a small swarm of space elves who get ID killed very easily.
> 
> ...


While all your points are completely correct on a scraping-at-the-surface level, you need to think more ahead than that. If you do commit to Scourges, you open up for the Cronos, which harmonizes really well with the concept of blowing up transports.

And I'm sorry if I came off as an Incubi hater. All I meant is that I would never ever consider them over a squad of Trueborn + Venom in the current competitive metagame. That does not mean they are bad, it means they are competing for an FoC slot with a better unit.

Incubi points cost hurts more than the Scourges. Even with lots of terrain, Incubi will not make up for their points with or without a transport against a tuned list. Scourges can more often than not arrive just where you need them as reserves, which means more for survivability than a 3+ save.

I also agree that Scourges aren't in essence better than Ravagers. But the Cronos is (in the current metagame).

The currently popular DE lists include 3x trueborn in venom and 3x ravagers. GREAT plan for popping those transports. But then what? What do you do with the survivors? Some would say that's a Wyches job, but I say that a Cronos can do that better for less points.

A Cronos will easily obliterate a marine squad in one turn, whether it is 5 or 10 man makes no difference. However, I never said ignore Wyches. You need both.

The harmony in such a list is much better even if you pay out the butt for Scourges. Wyches gain pain tokens from the Cronos, a machine that will soak stupendous amounts of fire from the enemy all while melting marine face. The Scourges don't suddenly become useless once you run out of tanks to shoot at, as they will always have some anti-infantry firepower as well.

I would however always consider more of a mix.

But I still wouldn't use Incubi.


----------



## Luisjoey (Dec 3, 2010)

Wyches and incubi! play around them because are good!


----------



## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> While all your points are completely correct on a scraping-at-the-surface level, you need to think more ahead than that. If you do commit to Scourges, you open up for the Cronos, which harmonizes really well with the concept of blowing up transports.
> 
> And I'm sorry if I came off as an Incubi hater. All I meant is that I would never ever consider them over a squad of Trueborn + Venom in the current competitive metagame. That does not mean they are bad, it means they are competing for an FoC slot with a better unit.
> 
> ...


oh i fully know the chronos is a beast for taking out infantry, Ive used it a few times in a proxy apoc game. But even with the current metagame, it has its issues, as anyone with any brains will target it or do their best to keep out of its weapons range while destroying other targets. I have been playing with 2 ravager 1 chronos lists lately for a 1500 - 2000 point range.

to point this out: the chronos is slow if your playing meched lists. and our units are too weak to foot slog across a battle field (save for the engines themselves) the speed differences make a huge difference, unfortunately.


----------



## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

I dunno about you but if you're up against a lot of big tough guys (Dredknights/Anything big in the nids dex) an Archon with a huskblade, soultrap and a Lhamean girlfriend can tear that shit up no problem. Don't even need to give him a better ranged gun.


----------



## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Oh yes, it's slow. But in my proxies I've never had a problem reaching my destination with all or two wounds intact. But that is why you can't have just 1 

Enter the Scourge


----------



## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Alsojames said:


> I dunno about you but if you're up against a lot of big tough guys (Dredknights/Anything big in the nids dex) an Archon with a huskblade, soultrap and a Lhamean girlfriend can tear that shit up no problem. Don't even need to give him a better ranged gun.


or i can just dark lance them to death as that works wonders


----------



## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

That too. But it's funnier to watch an S3 Archon take down a T6 (or even a T8 biotitan) monster by hisself.


----------



## TraceofToxin (Jan 26, 2010)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> While all your points are completely correct on a scraping-at-the-surface level, you need to think more ahead than that. If you do commit to Scourges, you open up for the Cronos, which harmonizes really well with the concept of blowing up transports.
> 
> And I'm sorry if I came off as an Incubi hater. All I meant is that I would never ever consider them over a squad of Trueborn + Venom in the current competitive metagame. That does not mean they are bad, it means they are competing for an FoC slot with a better unit.
> 
> ...



That's great synergy and all... but there's still no reason to take a Chronos over Ravagers when we have no trouble killing MEq to begin with. Not to mention 3 wounds with a 3+ isn't going to take "Stupendous amounts of fire" to kill. The only thing DE ever need more of is anti-tank, and the only reason we can never get enough is that we run out of slots/points.

The easiest way to kill MEQ is the same way you kill TEQ... you shoot venoms at it until it dies. With 36" you never have to worry about them being out of range or getting caught in melta range. 

At the end of the day a 115 point ravager blowing vehicles up 36" away with an additional 12" movement to get where you need to is better than 140+ point scourge unit that can't move and shoot 36" or has an 18" range with the same movement. 

Scourge are still a fantastic unit, and their ability to fly around with haywire blasters is something you can't get anywhere else in the codex.



Alsojames said:


> That too. But it's funnier to watch an S3 Archon take down a T6 (or even a T8 biotitan) monster by hisself.


An Archon can't touch anything T7+, the Lhamean doesn't extend to the huskblade.


----------

