# Gabriel Angelos of the Blood Ravens...



## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

Did we ever find out (figure out) what was going on with him?



As per the stories that some of you loathe by CS Goto, what was going on with Angelos and his connection with the Astronomicon Choir/Crescendo Crash he was experiencing? Is he a latent pysker? Some other connection I missed? Or are we left here going "Nope, don't know the the fekk is going on with him!"


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

that's a good question... i can't fucking remember. probably because i've purged all of Goto's writing from my memory...

CP


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Commissar Ploss said:


> that's a good question... i can't fucking remember. probably because i've purged all of Goto's writing from my memory...
> 
> CP


Are his books really that bad? Never read one, but I am looking at the Blood Ravens omnibus, but if it sucks I will go with something better.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

It is a little pulpie but ok
sort of beverly hilss 90210 for nerds, everyone does something with everyone


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

I like that anaolgy, the storyline is ok, just don't like the way it is written, which is opposite from the Ultramarines series.


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Doelago said:


> Are his books really that bad? Never read one, but I am looking at the Blood Ravens omnibus, but if it sucks I will go with something better.


I can say with ceryainty that I found _Warrior Brood, Warrior Coven and Eldar Prophecy_ to be atrocious so I haven't been willing to gamble on any other Goto books. They aren't great 40k books because they don't complement the fluff very well. They aren't even decent standalone books because the plot (what little there is) is predictable, the dialogue is corny and the charachters are boring.

Avoid if possible, if it's too late to avoid it; stop reading and burn it.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

Well the writing is crap, but actually the blood ravens are a pretty cool chapter with a lot of rather cool fluff potential, tons of librarians fighting with Eldar swords does it for me,


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Doelago said:


> Are his books really that bad? Never read one, but I am looking at the Blood Ravens omnibus, but if it sucks I will go with something better.


Never read his works myself, but the Internet has quite a mouthful to say about him. Basically, he defiles canon left and right without regard. The only thing keeping him less infamous than Ward is the fact they haven't let him within 50 feet of a codex. He's -that- bad.

_"While similar accusations might be fairly leveled at almost any Black Library author; instead of the usual once-per-book or once-per-chapter, or even just once, against Goto you can count one for every page on average (sometimes more).

He is also the only Black Library writer to ever be so much of a pussy to try excusing himself with "having an artistic license" (which in his definition apparently means he's being free to screw the canon left, right and inside out however he fucking pleases). He is apparently also a cigar-smoking midget, and rides a motorcycle —much like Doomrider—which pleases him.

Everyone knows that Terminators, wearing the ridiculously heavy armour that they do, are perfectly capable of performing backflips, right? No, not right, fucking stupid.

Land Raiders. They can transform into Razorbacks now. (They also change back in under a page and a half)

Khornate Sorcerer. "_

He has apparently also made Eldar D-Cannons fire bullets. Not bolt rounds or ballistic shells, but old fashion bullets which in the realm of 40k are slightly more dangerous than airsoft bbs. Oh and apparently carnifexes can mount multilasers on their backs. I wish that last one was a joke.


As for Gabriel himself... Dangit I can't find the spoiler tags.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

C'Tan Chimera said:


> Never read his works myself, but the Internet has quite a mouthful to say about him. Basically, he defiles canon left and right without regard. The only thing keeping him less infamous than Ward is the fact they haven't let him within 50 feet of a codex. He's -that- bad.
> 
> _"While similar accusations might be fairly leveled at almost any Black Library author; instead of the usual once-per-book or once-per-chapter, or even just once, against Goto you can count one for every page on average (sometimes more).
> 
> ...


Fuck it, Sabbat Worlds, here I come.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Doelago said:


> Fuck it, Sabbat Worlds, here I come.


a sound decision. 

CP


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

Aside from the hate of Goto that some of ya'll have, what could've been happening to Angelos that I mentioned in my spoiler tag? Anyone have any ideas?


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

Personally I think that perhaps the Corpse God of Mankind was reaching out to 'ole Gabe ( much like he did for Uriel Ventris? ) to lead him in the right direction. When I read the Blood Ravens omnibus I rather enjoyed it, but having played 40k for the last year and a half I must say that I am damn nervous about re-reading it. (I might set the little bastard on fire if it gets too bad.)

There is one thing that does kind of stand out for me though ... they have some sort of an Astrinomicon relay or some shit that they carry around on one of the ships, what for I have no fucking clue ... oh God, serious misgivings about re-entering the first 40K book I read now.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

OIIIIIIO said:


> (I might set the little bastard on fire if it gets too bad.)


Dont! Give it to me!


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Out of all gotos books the blood Ravens are the best

We never find out about gabe and the emperor, nore do we know what happened to macha, or the connections between the BR and pre heresy thousand sons, when they find a dead thousand son in the basement of a chapter fortress. The array on their main fortress is iffy as well what wiith kyras' fall

He goes from fighting ahriman and necrons, to when we see him in DoW2, we know in the gap he fought a highly sucessful war against the tau but thats it

his connection to the choir is never mentioned again. 

We also don't know what he was doing for the 10 years between CR and Retribution


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

Which current BL author should pick up the Blood Ravens writing mantle (since so many loathe Goto with such a passion) to flesh out the question I've posed & also expand on the storyline already presented to us?


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## sonn (Nov 25, 2010)

In one of the Dawn of War Retribution endings: 


Angelos becomes the new chapter master after Kyras is killed. Then Angelos and Diomedes purify the chapter and return it to glory.


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

sonn said:


> In one of the Dawn of War Retribution endings:
> 
> 
> Angelos becomes the new chapter master after Kyras is killed. Then Angelos and Diomedes purify the chapter and return it to glory.


And some folks don't play (or haven't played this one) pc games. Besides, it's always good to have what happens in a game, put in print.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Diatribe1974 said:


> And some folks don't play (or haven't played this one) pc games. Besides, it's always good to have what happens in a game, put in print.


If you want to know what happens, you might as well go on YouTube.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

OIIIIIIO said:


> There is one thing that does kind of stand out for me though ... they have some sort of an Astrinomicon relay or some shit that they carry around on one of the ships, what for I have no fucking clue ... oh God, serious misgivings about re-entering the first 40K book I read now.


It's to keep the Necrons from waking up. Yes, seriously that is what one of the eldar farseers mentions. Though the BR have no idea at that point what the purpose of it all is anymore. On that note, how in Holy Terra do the farseers keep teleporting onto the BR's battle barge? I mean once, I could understand, but twice? And in supposedly one of the most secure areas on the ship?

I also had problems with Goto's writing. It is perhaps a good thing that I read it when I was just getting into 40K and still was trying to memorize my codex. With the information that I know now, I might have even more trouble making it through the omnibus.


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## cheeto (Apr 1, 2011)

I enjoyed reading the Blood Ravens Omnibus. There! I said it. I can't remember though whether it was the second or third 40k book I read. Clearly I was no expert on 40k canon at the time. The one thing that caught my attention as far fetched was the speed of a terminator in single combat against an eldar exarch fought out in the open. I seemed to remember reading about terminators in White Dwarf when I was in my teens as warriors who sacrificed agility for armor to fight in tight spaces...

Still enjoyed the series. If I read it again I imagine I would be rolling my eyes even more but still enjoy all the same... I imagine.

What I am curious about is if Goto is so far off base, and I make no argument that he isn't, why does BL allow him to continue and why are their editors not stepping in for corrections?


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## Hammer49 (Feb 12, 2011)

cheeto said:


> What I am curious about is if Goto is so far off base, and I make no argument that he isn't, why does BL allow him to continue and why are their editors not stepping in for corrections?


Maybe they are correcting the books, but they probably dont have the time to rewrite the whole book.

His BR books were okay, but his other books were very hard going to read, and are some of my least favourite BL books.

If they do any more with the BR I hope they get ADB as the author.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

cheeto said:


> What I am curious about is if Goto is so far off base, and I make no argument that he isn't, why does BL allow him to continue and why are their editors not stepping in for corrections?


there are no plans to have Goto continue. The Blood Ravens are done for the foreseeable future. And the debate continues. Is it really Goto's fault the writing is so bad? Yes, the fluff errors he makes are egregious, but isn't it the job of an editor to catch such things and prevent them? Especially in such a tightly controlled universe as 40k, it doesn't pay to have an errant writer floating around fucking up the fluff that has taken so long to finally establish. So, should we really blame Goto? or should the Editors take the blame? I know my answer, but i'll leave it you to decide for yourself.

CP


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

cheeto said:


> The one thing that caught my attention as far fetched was the speed of a terminator in single combat against an eldar exarch fought out in the open.


No mention that it was a dark reaper exarch?

their well known for their close combat prowess........


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

Doelago said:


> If you want to know what happens, you might as well go on YouTube.


Oh, I already know what happens in the game. All I was pointing out is that some folks simply don't play PC/console games in the 40k universe. Their "40k video game" consists of 28mm war gaming miniatures on a tabletop surface somewhere and a ton of dice.


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## cheeto (Apr 1, 2011)

Commissar Ploss said:


> there are no plans to have Goto continue. The Blood Ravens are done for the foreseeable future. And the debate continues. Is it really Goto's fault the writing is so bad? Yes, the fluff errors he makes are egregious, but isn't it the job of an editor to catch such things and prevent them? Especially in such a tightly controlled universe as 40k, it doesn't pay to have an errant writer floating around fucking up the fluff that has taken so long to finally establish. So, should we really blame Goto? or should the Editors take the blame? I know my answer, but i'll leave it you to decide for yourself.
> 
> CP


I'm going to guess... both. To me it's just flat out irresponsible to take an established context and morph it at a whim for whatever reason, whether it be lack of research, or convenience. It's no better for BL to allow it to continue. I know their bottom line is at stake, but integrity actually helps to ensure a strong bottom line... I'm curious as to how they word their contracts.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Barnster said:


> No mention that it was a dark reaper exarch?
> 
> their well known for their close combat prowess........


yeah... terminators doing backflips? i don't think so...

CP


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Commissar Ploss said:


> yeah... terminators doing backflips? i don't think so...
> 
> CP


They dont? Dang, there goes my fanfic. :headbutt:


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

I'd still kill for a new trilogy that tied in the last bit of material that's not only in the game (Chaos Rising, ect), but also the successful Tau Campaign that Gabriel underwent by an author folks would enjoy reading (Gav Thorpe perhaps?).


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

Wait! Hold the phone here boys!

Carnifexes get to have multilasers on their backs ...






I'm sooo going Tyranid ...


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## KingDeath (Nov 18, 2008)

Nothing of Goto's inane drivel has ever been referenced in any of the DoW games ( which are, since the chapter was made for these games, a primary source of fluff for the Ravens ). I think we can more or less consider it to be out of continuity.


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

KingDeath said:


> Nothing of Goto's inane drivel has ever been referenced in any of the DoW games ( which are, since the chapter was made for these games, a primary source of fluff for the Ravens ). I think we can more or less consider it to be out of continuity.



Not out of continuity, but more like "A chapter waiting for solid writer that everyone will enjoy to tell their tales again...." The idea of a loyalist chapter formed from a traitor legion has the potential to tell some wonderful tales for all to read/experience.


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

NiceGuyEddy said:


> Avoid if possible, if it's too late to avoid it; stop reading and burn it.


hahaha! Love it!


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Doelago said:


> Are his books really that bad? Never read one, but I am looking at the Blood Ravens omnibus, but if it sucks I will go with something better.


I never saw much wrong with them, but they were the first BL books I ever read, so could be why... 



Dicrel Seijin said:


> It's to keep the Necrons from waking up. Yes, seriously that is what one of the eldar farseers mentions. Though the BR have no idea at that point what the purpose of it all is anymore. On that note, how in Holy Terra do the farseers keep teleporting onto the BR's battle barge? I mean once, I could understand, but twice? And in supposedly one of the most secure areas on the ship?


The second astronomicon was to keep the necs from waking up how exactly? Are you sure you`re not thhinking of that black pyramid thing?


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## Mob (Nov 14, 2010)

I'm gonna go against the flow _a bit_ (I'm a member of the Goto is awful club, don't worry) and say that the third book is worth reading if you like the Thousand Sons. It's also the better book of the series in that little of laughable Goto-nonsense happens (I actually can't remember any backflips or kids with rocks or multi-lasers etc in that one, though there's probably something stupid in there), although the story as a whole continues to make very little sense and makes generalisms of the accepted fluff creak a bit.

Also, it's one of those books where other characters constantly wander (and ask) why the main character is being all weird, don't particularly get an answer and then do what he says anyway because he's the protagonist.
"Gabriel, why do you keep abandoning your duty to the Chapter and the Emperor, why do you like hanging out with filthy xenos more than your bros, what exactly is your malfunction man?"
"Can't explain, there are bad guys I want you all to fight!"

I mean, did anyone else feel sorry for the (supposed) asshole character? The other Captain? Because he's like, just trying to do his job and behave according to his indocrinated belief system and keep his ship and men alive.
And Gabriel keeps blowing him off, letting him down, ignoring him, countermanding him etc. Poor grumpy Other Captain.

*tl;dr*
The first-person sections with Rhamah and his interactions with Ahriman and the Prodgal Sons in the 3rd book will be interesting to Thousand Sons fans and aren't terribly-written.


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## Lord Mephiston (Sep 16, 2010)

Just finished playing DOW 2 Retribution Space Marine campaign. 




The guy is now chapter master of the Blood Ravens. Congrats to him :boredom:


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## Moriar the Forsaken (Apr 18, 2011)

Such heresies are unacceptable. 8(



C'Tan Chimera said:


> _Everyone knows that Terminators, wearing the ridiculously heavy armour that they do, are perfectly capable of performing backflips, right? No, not right, fucking stupid._
> 
> _Land Raiders. They can transform into Razorbacks now. (They also change back in under a page and a half)_
> 
> ...


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## Moriar the Forsaken (Apr 18, 2011)

I hope that becomes the canon ending, and not the other ones.

Gabriel Angelos played by Paul Dobson is excellent, has the best lines and story arcs, which sadly have not been explored fully yet.



Lord Mephiston said:


> Just finished playing DOW 2 Retribution Space Marine campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Vitarus (Apr 9, 2012)

WOW! Reading the omnibus now, because I heard there's lots of psykers, and I like psykers. The first several posts here suggest it was a bad idea! :laugh:


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## Vitarus (Apr 9, 2012)

Well, I was sure happy about the psykers. But the stories didn't seem intriguing enough. The grand, intricate plans of the ne'er-do-wells weren't as cool as I'd read in some of the other books.

But then the third book kicked in with the Harlequins! Great stuff throughout with them! Bizarre, theatrical, elegant, graceful! They really saved the whole omnibus for me. And lots of Eldar history. Very happy. :grin:


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