# GW embargoing sellers that ship to Southern Hemisphere?



## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

Independent sellers are abuzz with rumours, to be confirmed on may 16th, that GW will start cracking down on stores that ship to South America and Australia. Maelstrom games has been reached for comments, and said that they were not allowed to discuss it, which is a somewhat grim indicator that something bad is about to go down.

For many 40k players here, such websites are the only cost-effective way of getting models. Starter sets usually run US$ 300-400 :shok: otherwise due to a combination of taxes, clashing business models and GW's...'unique' representation policies.


Here in Brazil this came as a double whammy. First we heard that GW has started talks with a local retailer known for bad deals, rarely delivering orders and serially running away with the money while dropping sob stories about taxes and border controls.

Then we learned of GW's upcoming colonialist gambit. People are already dismayed and frustrated. Seems Warmachine is about to gain hundreds of new hobbyists in Brazil alone. I started Warhammer 40k a year ago, and have a CSM army and a starting Dark Eldar list. Guess it's not going to happen anymore.

*UPDATE:*

Maesltrom manager Rob posted on Warseer about the topic.

_Guys,
I thought I’d better just add something here before we are misquoted or misrepresented – I’m not saying that’s happening in this thread, I just want to make sure that doesn’t happen!

Games Workshop told me their new terms and conditions regarding trade accounts on Wednesday, but they have asked me to not reveal what was said until Monday the 16th of May, which is when they will reveal them to the general public. At that point we will inform all our customers what is happening.

Cheers_

_Rob
Maelstrom Games Ltd_


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

sounds like shits about to go down...(terrible use of pun).

i hope thats not the case since if that means less people buying from down under it will increase the price here. crap-tastic all around if true.


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

That seems like a poor buisness model...but no one ever said GW always did the smart thing.


Doc


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Well, I can only advise Aussies and 'Zilians to stick to their guns and never buy from GW again until they stop the abuse.

Noone ever got things their way by bending over and applying Vaseline themselves.


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Well, I can only advise Aussies and 'Zilians to stick to their guns and never buy from GW again until they stop the abuse.
> 
> Noone ever got things their way by bending over and applying Vaseline themselves.


You are so right in your response!! There has to be other ways for them to get their plastic crack??? Ebay stores?

Doc


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## Azezel (May 23, 2010)

ghost21 said:


> ive noticed certain countries get stung on the old conversion (or gws equivilent, sufice to say something is bieng done about this. yes you can pm me about it but im not at liberty to post here)


That doesn't sound like GW were planning to increase the sting...


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

cant see any truth in this rumour, how can GW possibly enforce it? are they going to vet every order indie companies receive? not to mention i think this would fall under the unfair business practices,its a form of price fixing and is anti competitive,they could be dragged over the coals for that surely?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> cant see any truth in this rumour, how can GW possibly enforce it? are they going to vet every order indie companies receive? not to mention i think this would fall under the unfair business practices,its a form of price fixing and is anti competitive,they could be dragged over the coals for that surely?


For once I like to see GW suffer in some way to make them reach out to masses with reasonable prices and play nice with other stores sellign their product.. As it stands its more of a select few who can afford it. Ebay everyday.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

GW are slowly becoming Microsoft in the 90's with their attempted Internet Explorer monopoly and extortionate currency conversion schemes. It's ugly, and the board of directors are becoming less human than the miniatures they push.


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## Callistarius (Aug 17, 2010)

I'm from Australia and wouldn't be surprised at all to see GW try to implement a policy like this. :angry: 

As an example of GW pricing in Australia, a Stormraven's RRP here is $110AUS. I ordered same from a UK-site (not naming anyone, don't want the Thought Police coming down on them) for $52AUS. Baal Pred $83 here, ~$38 online. BA box set $165 vs ~$75. 

The price difference is beyond ridiculous, venturing into criminal. I should check up with ACCC (consumer watchdog types) if this proposed policy contravenes our anti-monopoly laws.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

I suggest you make friends with us North Americans


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

I'm pretty certain the extra markup is because they are imported as "toys" into Australia, which attracts a duty of around 35% of sale value.

If they do this, it will pretty much kill off GWOz retail but be a windfall for resellers.


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## koby (Apr 4, 2011)

worse comes to the worst, make a pen pal and get them to ship it you as gifts, you'll probably get it even cheaper that way.


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## AlexHolker (Apr 27, 2011)

chromedog said:


> I'm pretty certain the extra markup is because they are imported as "toys" into Australia, which attracts a duty of around 35% of sale value.


The customs duty on toys in Australia is only 5%. There is no customs duty on "reduced-size model assembly kits".

Cite


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

No way in hell am i paying over $100 for things like Stormravens, Valkyries, Land Raiders, etc.

GW just need to update their exchange rates to significantly reduce the price in AU and NZ, because at the moment it is stupid. I am sure that you people in the USA wouldn't pay $180 for a battleforce, or you guys in the UK wouldn't pay over 100GBP for one.

If they get shitty about retailers shipping overseas, then ill just get someone overseas to buy it for me and ship it over, and give them a percentage for their time.
Problem solved.

Honestly though, if the AU price worked out at only 10-20% more than overseas, then i would probably buy it locally.
But the fact that they are DOUBLE the price of other countries, they are only screwing themselves over.


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

Normally I'd be playing the role of devil's advocate and defending GW as they're a business and need to make money and all that. However this time even I'm not going to stick up for them. Like Cheese said we in Australia and New Zealand are paying double what people in the UK and US are, and it's just not fair. I could understand if prices were a little bit more expensive to cover shipping and taxes along with any other expenses, but double the price, come on on, that just doesn't add up. Poor form GW, poor form indeed.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

I'm actually done with buying any GW stuff because I already have 20+K of my 3 armies, but I feel very bad for people who still need to buy their product. I can't believe that they would do such a thing without tempering the effect of this decision by factoring in the exchange rates...maybe they will release something to this effect on the 16th.

Time will tell I guess...I can see Warmachine going through the roof popularity-wise - already happening in my area. Trouble is that PP are already in a backlog trying to keep up with the current demand for their minis, let alone the growth spurt that this stupidity by GW will cause.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Has anyone considered how EU export tariffs affect sales? Last Christmas my Mum got me a couple of Denver Bronco jumpers via a friend in the States. She paid more due to the import tariffs the EU likes to use than she did for either shipping or the jumpers themselves.

That tends to be the case on most things you order from outside the EU and doubtless it's the case with stuff exported too. Also Australia and New Zealand are farther away from Britain than the States which means shipping there costs more. Now I don't know if they're sent by air or ship but there are a lot of other things to pay for besides the shipping, insurance for one. Factor all that in and it's going to cost more.

One possiblity I suppose would be to see if they can ship the products directly from China (if they do this already then ignore everything I've said above), which might lower costs.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

The Sullen One said:


> One possiblity I suppose would be to see if they can ship the products directly from China (if they do this already then ignore everything I've said above), which might lower costs.


As I understand it, the models are now manufactured in Nottingham only.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

The Sullen One said:


> That tends to be the case on most things you order from outside the EU and doubtless it's the case with stuff exported too. Also Australia and New Zealand are farther away from Britain than the States which means shipping there costs more. Now I don't know if they're sent by air or ship but there are a lot of other things to pay for besides the shipping, insurance for one. Factor all that in and it's going to cost more.


Yes, this is a factor, but GW takes it further than this would explain. In several cases, we pay double what the Americans and Brits do- there's no way all of that covers shipping. It's probably GW charging that much because they know they can- stuff just costs more in Australia pretty much across the board, and GW are pricing themselves in a manner they can get away with in our market.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Might it not be worth waiting for the announcement before we decide to storm the batttlements? It could be bad, but then it might not be. Act in haste, repent at leisure, eh

GFP


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Might it not be worth waiting for the announcement before we decide to storm the batttlements? It could be bad, but then it might not be. Act in haste, repent at leisure, eh
> 
> GFP


This.. for all we know the announcement could be they're opening an Austrailian factory.


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## AlexHolker (Apr 27, 2011)

The Sullen One said:


> That tends to be the case on most things you order from outside the EU and doubtless it's the case with stuff exported too.


I doubt it. Dumbed down, tariffs exist because the government wants people to buy from businesses in its country. Charging tariffs on exports has the opposite effect - it makes it harder for businesses in your country to sell to other countries, which means people will buy elsewhere.



> Also Australia and New Zealand are farther away from Britain than the States which means shipping there costs more. Now I don't know if they're sent by air or ship but there are a lot of other things to pay for besides the shipping, insurance for one. Factor all that in and it's going to cost more.


Maelstrom ships to Australia with the money saved by not having to pay VAT on exports. If GW can't do the same, I don't see why I should pay for their incompetence.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

If this is true you Ossies should just go fire bomb every GW store in Australia, should teach them to mess with you.

If that's a bit too extreme then buy some Liquid Ass and go into every GW store and throw it around on their products, walls, gaming boards etc. When they ask wtf you are doing you can honestly say you just want to make sure the store smells like GWs business model for Australia.

http://www.liquidass.com/


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## AlexHolker (Apr 27, 2011)

MadCowCrazy said:


> If this is true you Ossies should just go fire bomb every GW store in Australia, should teach them to mess with you.
> 
> If that's a bit too extreme then buy some Liquid Ass and go into every GW store and throw it around on their products, walls, gaming boards etc. When they ask wtf you are doing you can honestly say you just want to make sure the store smells like GWs business model for Australia.
> 
> http://www.liquidass.com/


How lowbrow. Can't we just board whatever vessel transports their kits and throw them into the Sydney harbour, like gentlemen?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

:goodpost:start a gaming revolution


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

MadCowCrazy said:


> If this is true you Ossies should just go fire bomb every GW store in Australia, should teach them to mess with you.
> 
> If that's a bit too extreme then buy some Liquid Ass and go into every GW store and throw it around on their products, walls, gaming boards etc. When they ask wtf you are doing you can honestly say you just want to make sure the store smells like GWs business model for Australia.
> 
> http://www.liquidass.com/


Speaking of, are you really from Åland or do you just really like the flag?


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks I learned something today...I had to look up Åland because I had never heard of it.

Doc


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## rasolyo (Dec 22, 2009)

As a Sisters player in Asia who's been direct-ordering every Witch Hunter model from my independent, I've been looking forward to the day when I could order the new plastics from Wayland/Maelstrom, and not have to pay above RRP prices for an already expensive metal army.

I know I might end up sounding like an ass if this turns out to be fake, but thanks a lot GW.


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

MadCowCrazy said:


> If this is true you Ossies should just go fire bomb every GW store in Australia, should teach them to mess with you.
> 
> If that's a bit too extreme then buy some Liquid Ass and go into every GW store and throw it around on their products, walls, gaming boards etc. When they ask wtf you are doing you can honestly say you just want to make sure the store smells like GWs business model for Australia.
> 
> http://www.liquidass.com/


Very mature. :no:

Over the years I have seen GW's policies and prices turn away many older gamers and collectors...trouble is they are always replaced by attracting new younger players who's 'pester power' keeps parents parting with cash.

Because GW went global with their product and have attracted high numbers of customers around the world I think they have a duty of care towards their customer base. The only real way for them keep the product growing and reduce import costs is to have manufacturing facilities around the world...at least one for the States and maybe a smaller one for Oz.

Look at the auto industry...you don't see car manufacturers restricting their production facilities to the country of origin. Unfortunately, unless GW are going to invest in this way I fear that shipping, import and insurance costs will continue to escalate.

There are similar problems importing products from countries outside the EU to the UK. As an example I paid US $532 (roughly £320) for a couple of Battlefoam cases and postage. I then ended up shelling out a further $90 (£55) on import taxes...sucky but unavoidable.

Even private postage costs can be prohibitively expensive, especially to Australia. I have had a few people inquire about the Tyranid (and Tau when I was selling it) armies I have. It was going to cost £170 to ship the Tau and £100 to ship the Tyranids to Oz with suitable insurance cover. Who the hell wants to pay those kinds of shipping costs?


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

I had to do a report on a company for one of my college courses modules and I chose Games Workshop. I asked if I could state that it is unethical for the company to sell at such a high price, and was told that it was only unethical to sell a product at a price that consumers are unwilling to pay for, which is exactly what this is.

You poor Aussies have my sympathies.

If this all goes through, then I wouldn't blame you all for giving up on Games Workshop.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

This would be so much easier if GW just reviewed exchange rates every 6 months. It would make them a lot more from their non-uk hobby centres, in oz, ireland ind probably all other european countries.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Doesn't really surprise me, GW has fallen a bit short on it's minimum dickheadedness quota this month.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

I spoke to a someone within GW Australia management (i won't name names) but i asked him why do GW charge almost double here in Australia, and even more so in New Zealand.

He smiled and he arrogantly told me "Because we can".

If this is true and Maelstrom will be forbidden from exporting to Australia then that's it for me. I am out, i won't pay double.:headbutt:


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Achaylus72 said:


> I spoke to a someone within GW Australia management (i won't name names) but i asked him why do GW charge almost double here in Australia, and even more so in New Zealand.
> 
> He smiled and he arrogantly told me "Because we can".
> 
> If this is true and Maelstrom will be forbidden from exporting to Australia then that's it for me. I am out, i won't pay double.:headbutt:


I wouldn`t think less of you for naming this cunt. I may even know who he is. 

But seriously, I have bought local for most of my stuff. Some of the heavy expensive things I have sought secondhand, but I can only tolerate so much. 

I remember when a paint pot cost AU$4, I remember when a tactical squad was a flat fifty and now we`re paying six bucks a pot and over sixty for a ten man box. 

I wanted to support local, but it is getting ridiculous. :angry:


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## wombat_tree (Nov 30, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> I wanted to support local, but it is getting ridiculous. :angry:


Same, I love going into my local store it has a really nice feel and very friendly staff but the prices are so ridiculous that if I actually want to have a decent sized army I pretty much have to buy from a store like Maelstrom games.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Here is something to think about....

I started playing 40K waaaaaaaaay back in 2nd ed.
A lot of my marines i bought back then was at the release of 3rd ed, and i payed the GW-AU RRP for them.
This is going waaaaay back to 1998, 13 years ago.
How many people can remember the prices they paid for models 13 years ago.
It was a fraction of the price they are now, right?
I paid more for them back in 1998 than what people in the UK and US are paying for them in 2011.

That is how fucked the Australian pricing system is....


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## qotsa4life (Dec 31, 2009)

With the exception of the demon prince plastic kit, I haven't bought anything new in about one and a half years. I bought the demon prince from maelstrom. There's so much stuff available on ebay second hand I just don't need to pay GW prices. 

If this announcement goes ahead, I'm sure the independent retailers will find a way around it anyway.

At the end of the day, the goal of GW management is to maximise shareholder value, so we as the customers get the rough end of the stick. If everyone in Australia stops buying new GW stuff, shareholder value will drop and GW will modify their business plan. 

I think this thread will make for interesting reading tomorrow.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

docgeo said:


> Thanks I learned something today...I had to look up Åland because I had never heard of it.
> 
> Doc





MetalHandkerchief said:


> Speaking of, are you really from Åland or do you just really like the flag?



Yes, I live on Åland, the shitty little isle in between the ass cheeks of Finland and Sweden.

Swedish name if Åland, English name is Aland Islands, Finish name is Ahvenanmaa?! wtf? I bet none of you can even pronounce that correctly...
/facepalm


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

KingOfCheese said:


> Here is something to think about....
> 
> I started playing 40K waaaaaaaaay back in 2nd ed.
> A lot of my marines i bought back then was at the release of 3rd ed, and i payed the GW-AU RRP for them.
> ...


I remember $40AUD box sets, and buy 2 boxes get 1 free deals. Those were the days.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I remember $40AUD box sets, and buy 2 boxes get 1 free deals. Those were the days.


Pretty sure the very first Battleforce i bought was $75 or $80 (back in the 20th century).
They are now $165RRP, and i get them from overseas for $70ish in 2011.

The first tactical squad i bought was $27 (had a 10% club discount off the $30RRP, back in the 20th century).
Now they are $55RRP, and i get them from overseas for $25ish in 2011.

I just don't understand the logic at all. :dunno:


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

KingOfCheese said:


> Pretty sure the very first Battleforce i bought was $75 or $80 (back in the 20th century).
> They are now $165RRP, and i get them from overseas for $70ish in 2011.
> 
> The first tactical squad i bought was $27 (had a 10% club discount off the $30RRP, back in the 20th century).
> ...


Must have been just before my time. I envy you Mr Cheese.

Maybe they're just fucking around with us and seeing how high they can put the prices before we storm GW HQ with torches and pitchforks.


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

KingOfCheese said:


> Here is something to think about....
> 
> I started playing 40K waaaaaaaaay back in 2nd ed.
> A lot of my marines i bought back then was at the release of 3rd ed, and i payed the GW-AU RRP for them.
> ...


13 years ago...that would make you 10 at the time (according to your current age of 23) so you were spending your pocket money on these models. Show me one kid that can afford to buy anything from GW anywhere on their pocket money these days!

Shit, when I started it was 30 pence for a metal mini...man I feel sooooo old.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

The shit realy hit the fan when they overhauled the Imperial Guard when they stopped having 20 Imperial Guard at $40Au per box and split it into 10 Imperial Guard and $41Au per box thus doubling the cost of Imperial Guard Cadian Shock/Catachan Jungle Troops, it was May 2009 when the major price rises went into effect.

This was the time that an Assault on Black Reach starter set went from $115Au to $150Au.

I did some research some time ago and i found that to get one kid to take up the Warhammer hobby at 12 and have him still be in the hobby at 22 ten years later he is literally 1 in a 1,000, meaning for every 10 year veteran more than 999 players/hobbyists are burned out.

Incredibly within 12 months of a 12 year old begininnig the hobby over 50% of 12 year olds are burned out within 12 months, that means that around 500 have left the hobby for good.

Retention of customers within any business is vital, this however is not applicable to GW who are contented with chewing up and spitting out with high turn over as much as possible.

One major factor of the high turn over is parental financial burnout,parents can't in the long run justify the expence, but GW just doesn't give a fuck about that.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Do what I did and broaden your horizons, there are plenty of gaming systems out there, wargaming doesn't begin and end with G-dub!


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Cypher871 said:


> Show me one kid that can afford to buy anything from GW anywhere on their pocket money these days!


Oh, there's tons. They're all spoiled brats, but theres loads. I played a 13 year old the other month with a full 2500 point GK army- brand new. This was the week after the initial release. and he's not the only one- kids running around with multiple stormravens- and I'm using a predator made out of a rhino with a turret made from fucking stormshields to cut down on cost.

Besides, who needs pocket money when mummy and daddy pay for _everything_?

Man, I've only played 7 years, and even I'm noticing the difference. I would cream my pants if tacticals were 10 for fifty again. 

That said, I'm alright with buying from my local GW- I simply abuse the painting table and the Battle Bunker in order to get the best bang for my buck- I only buy primer, and the only terrain I've ever bought were some spare craters for vehicle explosion results. Oh, and I use cheapass dice from the $2 shop. Then there's the fact that I'm a mediocre painter, and the advice from the staff helps. I figure I get most of my money back that way.

Although that doesn't help people who don't use GW stores...


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## Whamhammer (Jan 19, 2009)

Man i remember when the prices here in New Zealand started going up a couple years ago and thinking it was frigging ridiculous, then i left the hobby and recently came back in the past month and well well well the prices have gone up even more, they no longer use the grading A B C D etc on blisters all the prices have individual prices now and cutting the regiment from 20 guys at 55 bucks to 10 guys at 40 bucks was pure BS, and now those 40 dollar boxes have gone up to 60 dollars!!!! Gw have no respect for the customers they just keep the prices going up and up, How far can they go.
Oh and more price hikes are coming up the bloody Tomb kings battalion went from 180 dollars to 220 dollars for the addition of 8 skeletons.
If i cant order Gw products online i'm done. Heroines a cheaper addiction than Games workshop!


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

coke123 said:


> Oh, there's tons. They're all spoiled brats, but theres loads. I played a 13 year old the other month with a full 2500 point GK army- brand new. This was the week after the initial release. and he's not the only one- kids running around with multiple stormravens- and I'm using a predator made out of a rhino with a turret made from fucking stormshields to cut down on cost.
> 
> Besides, who needs pocket money when mummy and daddy pay for _everything_?
> 
> ...


I saw at my local GW store once when a kid and his dad walked into the store and this kid about 11 or 12 looked at the Starter set AoBR and fell in love with it, and within 20 minutes the kids dad had bought over $1,500 bucks worth of Space Marines and the kids dad did not bat an eyelid over the cost.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Achaylus72 said:


> I saw at my local GW store once when a kid and his dad walked into the store and this kid about 11 or 12 looked at the Starter set AoBR and fell in love with it, and within 20 minutes the kids dad had bought over $1,500 bucks worth of Space Marines and the kids dad did not bat an eyelid over the cost.


................Damn thats like going to the only gw left in my area....the kids buy like 500-800 worth of stuff in one go and just DESTROY IT! on the upside they are great at bitz trades.......at least if you dont mind striping 5 layers off a model.


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## tu_shan82 (Mar 7, 2008)

Well I've found where I'll be getting my models from once GW stops Wayland from shipping down under. Link. Admittedly the prices aren't as low as ordering from the UK, but they're a hell of a lot better than paying full retail. I still think this is a very unfair move on GW's part though.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Achaylus72 said:


> I saw at my local GW store once when a kid and his dad walked into the store and this kid about 11 or 12 looked at the Starter set AoBR and fell in love with it, and within 20 minutes the kids dad had bought over $1,500 bucks worth of Space Marines and the kids dad did not bat an eyelid over the cost.


:shok: You know what, I do the costing for every army I play, so I can plan purchases and stuff. The average halfway decent 2000pts army costs $700-$1000 (depending on choice of faction, how much you mech up, etc.) That implies that the dad bought, what, 3-4k in one hit? I wonder how much of it got painted?


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Combat Company is a good one...I've used them a fair bit for smaller buys. Overall the local aussie LGS's and online stores, and especially the ones that have both, should do pretty well from this move by GW.


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## eyescrossed (Mar 31, 2011)

Yeah, methinks GW will stop getting my cash if this turns out to be true.


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## wombat_tree (Nov 30, 2008)

coke123 said:


> Oh, there's tons. They're all spoiled brats, but theres loads.


I'm 14 years old, my first box of models was bought when I was 12. I got $10 a week and the box took me five weeks of saving to get. Yes I've sometimes been spoiled for birthdays but I've still bought quite a bit of Warhammer simply by saving up my $10 (now $15) a week to buy the box I wanted. Not all of us are stereotypes. 

Anyway, it's now the 16th so does anyone have any information regarding if this rumour is true?


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Give it another hour, it's usually 10AM GMT.


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## ashmo (Mar 20, 2011)

keen to hear what the outcome is


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## vraksianrebel (Jan 14, 2011)

looking at the link for the combat company they have put up that GW is stopping all production of metal and metal/plastic kits to be replaced by plastic/resin so it might just be that announcement maybe?


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## travismaher (Feb 5, 2010)

I am an Australian who works with small businesses day in day out, I am not a financial advisor or anything like that but I do believe I have solid understanding of the aussie economy and the difficulties of doing business here. 

Doing business in Australia is an expensive proposition for global companies. We have ridiculously high real estate, commercial rent is about to sore, we have high CPI / Inflation and moderately high interest rates. Which reflect back again on commercial mortgages, staff payroll expenses and let's not forget utilities. Tip of the iceberg, I could keep going.....

Package all this into a first world, mature market with customers who have a sophisticated high level of expectation with regards to their shopping experiences and unfortunately a population of only 21 odd million. So companies have to build these distribution networks, beautiful retail outlets, facilitate a HQ function to support the retail experience, yet they don't get to enjoy the volume of business that they do in Europe, the US or even Asia. 

Volume is an important notion to understand. As their fixed costs as a proportion to their expected volume is going to be out of kilter for this market. 

I am not sympathizing with GW and I must admit I do not know their recent price history as I have just returned from a 15 year warhammer hiatus. However, considering all the above I do understand what might drive them to make a business decision such as what we are led to believe may be revealed today. 

There are so many examples I can think of. Look at motorcycle clothing, bicycle clothing, motorcycle parts and accessories , car parts, computer software, clothing, shoes. All of this stuff you can buy much cheaper o/sea's. 

This is just my take on what may happen today. Sometimes it helps to consider issues such as this from both sides. In the industry I work in, if we had the luxury of legally eradicating Grey Imports, we would take significant measures to try and make this happen. However, this is not an option for us. 

/my2cents.


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## travismaher (Feb 5, 2010)

Oh I just wanted to add that I think this could actually benefit the Australian gaming community. I like most here have purchased a bucket load of stuff from maelstrom since getting back into the game. More than I care to admit to my wife. 

However recently, some gaming buddies of mine have decided to try and steer a significant portion of our gaming dollar towards one particular gaming shop we all enjoy playing at. It can only benefit us in the long term if this particular shop (with it's 50 or so gaming tables) will be around for the long term. If the majority of the Australian war games community are purchasing their plastic crack from o/s then the future of Australian gaming entities is certainly grim. 

Again, just my 2 cents.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

travismaher said:


> Oh I just wanted to add that I think this could actually benefit the Australian gaming community. I like most here have purchased a bucket load of stuff from maelstrom since getting back into the game. More than I care to admit to my wife.
> 
> However recently, some gaming buddies of mine have decided to try and steer a significant portion of our gaming dollar towards one particular gaming shop we all enjoy playing at. It can only benefit us in the long term if this particular shop (with it's 50 or so gaming tables) will be around for the long term. If the majority of the Australian war games community are purchasing their plastic crack from o/s then the future of Australian gaming entities is certainly grim.
> 
> Again, just my 2 cents.


I partially disagree.

I agree that buying from overseas is killing GW-AU.
I agree that you are always better off supporting a local store/club.

However, i don't think that buying PURELY from overseas would have a significant affect on our wardollies in Australia.

Sure the GW stores will close down, and independent stores will have to look into other stock to sell and probably no longer supply tables to play on... but the club scene in Australia is EASILY numerous enough to supply venues for people to gather and enjoy their hobby together.

Almost everyone i know buys their plasti-crack from overseas, and a club president will organise a venue to hire every week or fortnight, and people give a gold coin donation to play.
If there are a lack of clubs in regional areas, then people can easily start their own.
There are more than enough clubs in the cities though.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

If they do stop stuff shipping from overseas, I'm done with buying models. Finish the stuff I have off, sell the stuff I don't particularly want and then put more towards my beginning in Warmahordes.


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## Synack (Apr 8, 2008)

Any updates?


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

KingOfCheese said:


> I partially disagree.
> 
> I agree that buying from overseas is killing GW-AU.
> I agree that you are always better off supporting a local store/club.
> ...


I have to disagree with that, in my local area we had four leagues 12 months ago, but now three have bitten the bullet, this is because of the massive cost of GW product and becaue of this no one was playing.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> If they do stop stuff shipping from overseas, I'm done with buying models. Finish the stuff I have off, sell the stuff I don't particularly want and then put more towards my beginning in Warmahordes.


I might do the same as you as i am keen on finishing my Chaos Army, but i'll sell everything else and switch over to Warmachine and Hordes as a hobby.


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## Kettu (Nov 20, 2007)

travismaher said:


> However recently, some gaming buddies of mine have decided to try and steer a significant portion of our gaming dollar towards one particular gaming shop we all enjoy playing at. It can only benefit us in the long term if this particular shop (with it's 50 or so gaming tables) will be around for the long term. If the majority of the Australian war games community are purchasing their plastic crack from o/s then the future of Australian gaming entities is certainly grim.


And mine just shut down. After how many years of being in the heart of Sydney they just had to fold because they could no longer afford the rent.

I was friends with the staff, I had regular shopping and gaming trips there and now, because Sydney is trying to outclass Melbourne as the Shopping capital, they can no longer afford to remain within the city.

I see where you are coming from but shops come and go with times and trends. If I can get the product for what it is worth and NOT the 200% GW has decided it will sell for then I damn well will.

I have family in Europe, I have friends in Europe, I won't just start buying from Australia because GW told me to _'turn, bend and present'_. 
Hell I have even seen fellow forum goers offer to be the middleman for a slight profit (Or even none at all).


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Achaylus72 said:


> I have to disagree with that, in my local area we had four leagues 12 months ago, but now three have bitten the bullet, this is because of the massive cost of GW product and becaue of this no one was playing.


Well, there would be some influence, but i doubt that the influence would be significant enough to force people to other hobbies.

Between imports and non-store clubs, i think there is enough to keep the hobby going quite strong.

If anything, cheaper models through imports have made the hobby more popular in Australia as it is more affordable.
I know several people who have armies now that probably would have never played if they had to pay the AU RRP.

For a start, i probably would have never started a Guard army if i had to pay the RRP. I would have just stuck with my Orks, Nids, and CSM.


I guess it depends who you know too.
What happens on one side of the country may not be the same as the other side.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

KingOfCheese said:


> Well, there would be some influence, but i doubt that the influence would be significant enough to force people to other hobbies.
> 
> Between imports and non-store clubs, i think there is enough to keep the hobby going quite strong.
> 
> ...


I supposed that local pressures come into it as well, but not withstanding this it is a massive blight on the local area when 75% of the leagues have folded and that as many as several hundred gamers just walk away from playing Warhammer Fantasy/40K leaving a massive void.

But what is damning is that GW Australia/International just doesn't give a fuck, as i have said before i know no other business that just openly doesn't give a fuck about its customers and customer retention as badly as GW Australia/International


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## Carna (Mar 13, 2008)

This will be good for local gaming stores if they stock other systems I guess.

As to AU pricing, I think it sucks, *but* I like to think of it in terms of "hours". I earn $X/h, if I buy something, say a book which I know I'll get at least 7 hours from, it would be 7x$X= maximum I'm willing to spend on it (which is why I never buy DVDs..), so with WH40k, if I buy a Tactical Squad box for $60, I know it'll take me probably 3 hours to cut them out, glue 'em together, and possibly another 7 to paint (over a few years of course), so it's not TOO expensive, it's just too expensive in comparison to other countries. A lot of things are 1-off buys anyway.

Honestly I can't buy anything more anyway, once you've bought an army you've got 100+ hours worth to be getting on with, and I've already got a shit load of mini's to do.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

> It's a sad day for us here at Maelstrom Games for we have the unpleasant task of informing all of our Rest of the World customers that Games Workshop will no longer allow us to sell their products to you, but here's a couple of crumbs of comfort - shortly we'll be able to sell their excellent Finecast range and we've just brought in the quite superb Kabuki Models stuff!
> 
> 
> Games Workshop's new Terms and Conditions
> ...


fresh from maelstrom guys, i feel really sorry for you aussies and non eu guys. GW officially sucks cock now


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

That is it i am out of the hobby, now i'll switch over to Warmachine and Hordes.

Fuck you GW. Now watch GW slam the price of product here in Australia through the roof.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

I officially quit. Warmachine, here I come!


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

hmm i can see GW going tits up down under after that shity anouncement.
How many hobiest in the afected countrys will now stop playing GW games and switch to other systems.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Games workshop need to get their priorities right. Customers should be taken care of, and every other successful business realises this. That is why they have a loyal customer base. GW on the other hand, choose to chew up an spit out all of those who stuck with them for the last number of years, even when systems like warmachine and hordes are expanding. This is a kick in the bollocks for everyone in Australia, South America and Canada.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

After some careful thought, i am deeply saddened by this, this hurts deeply, in all my experience as a loyal customer this is betrayal at its worse, but Karma is a bitch


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

GW can frak themselves off. I'll keep buying and playing, but I'm NEVER paying the Canadian prices. Hopefully Wayland will keep selling, otherwise, I'll find some other means.

Phil


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## GhostDog (Apr 16, 2010)

Doesn't this affect any anti-monopoly laws in the UK?

I know it doesn't affect UK people, but surely a company saying to who another company can and can't sell it's good to is illegal.


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

This is like watching car crash TV...you are horrified at what you are seeing but cannot stop watching. I am quite frankly dumb-founded at GW's attitude. I know they have been losing sales to independents for years now but to think they can monopolise and control who can sell there product and where it can be sold to is almost fascist in outlook.

GW management...Mussolini would be so proud!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Oh for god's sake... it effects Canada too? :angry:


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Un-fucking-believable.

Sorry for all those outside the EU zone, this is really harsh. 

Has there been an official GW statement on this? It would be interesting to see what cobblers they come out with.

Privateer Press and other such companies must be laughing there nuts off.


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## GhostDog (Apr 16, 2010)

I'm sure the official story is to protect the sales by independant retailers in the countries affected. However if GW had better prices then they wouldn't have to protect the sales.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Sorry for the profanity, but that's a proper cunts trick. I'm properly shocked by that...


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

hooray for GW being little shits trying to Escalate their own profit through underhanded means.

I mean they may aswell say goodbye to a HUGE portion of their playerbase with this move.

companies who undersold GW to places outside the UK will stop selling to those people, those people will still refuse to buy from GWs pricing. GW loses profits from the companies that were underselling them in the first place. GW loses money, and says what the fuck.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

8% of income came from Australia in the last 6 months. I assume that figure can only be calculated on sales from GW stores and registered Australia based distributors.

It will be interesting to see how it shifts in the next 6 months.

I thought our prices were high, but if I buy from Wayland games (or the like) i'm paying 50% of the Australian RRP. That's where the fundamental issue lies.

Surely it would be more beneficial to sell to the distributors (Maelstrom et al) for a slightly greater sum (1-2% higher than present) and let them do the non-EU/USA distribution.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

This is BS for Australia, New Zealand, India and Japan. The Americas should be fine since their prices are decent, but these 4 will hurt badly. I bet the second hand market for GW minis and the Privateer Press games are going to boom, leaving GW with a net gain of a big fat NOTHING.

Even I'm going to move to mostly the second hand market and PP out of sheer sympathy.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> This is BS for Australia, New Zealand, India and Japan. The Americas should be fine since their prices are decent, but these 4 will hurt badly.


Except they're raising prices at the same time for some unfathomable reason.

GW, if you're listening... this is me quitting 40K.

Go fuck yourselves.


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Except they're raising prices at the same time for some unfathomable reason.
> 
> GW, if you're listening... this is me quitting 40K.
> 
> Go fuck yourselves.


::shock-horror::


I can understand without condoning the reasoning, but I have to say thats not the way I would go about doing it.

Have they considered simply lowering the far/south east MSRP costs? Surely it's not that expensive if 3rd party sellars can afford it.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

My phone and emails have been ringing hot....lots of my mates are totally pissed off over this BS. We've worked out GW will be losing up to 10 grand from our group this coming year alone, which will now go towards Warmachine/Hoards, which was gaining popularity even before this shit hit the fan, and it's now cheaper to start a FW Army like DKOK/Elysians than a stanfard IG list...well unless GW make FW not include OZ in its free shipping for £250+ orders.

The only positive is that one of my mates owns an OZ LGS so should gain more sales from this.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

gally912 said:


> ::shock-horror::
> 
> 
> I can understand without condoning the reasoning, but I have to say thats not the way I would go about doing it.


I really don't want to stop playing 40k, but I feel that I've been pushed too far by the company. I've put up with their abuse for years - crappy rules support, consistent price increases and so on, I'm just tired of continuing to buy GW's stuff simply because of a sense of loyalty. The company doesn't _deserve_ my loyalty and more to the point, my money.

So instead of sending a letter or something silly like that, I'll voice my displeasure with my wallet. Maybe other people will do the same thing and Games Workshop will decide that they need to clean up their act, but until they do, it's Hordes for me.


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

So what does this mean for other online retailers like the WarStore? Will they just not be able to sell GW products to America anymore too? If so, then I'm out. GW is so incredibly abusive to its player base and although I love the game...I really cannot take it anymore. Perhaps I will give WarmaHordes a go.

If I'm safe here in the US though, well I suppose I'll be more hesitant to buy minis in the future.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

Yep, fuck you Games Workshop.

I've seen some pretty bad ethics from companies before, but this really shits on the biscuit.

I hope Heresy Online starts some sort of movement that helps people buy from the company via Heresy Online members, or helps them get into Warmachines, Hordes, etc.

I seriously didn't think it'd go this far. I mean, the prices could be justified because of the niche nature of the market, the size of the company (It's not a massive player on the international scene), and the cost of the materials, but now that they won't be using pewter (Was that the metal? I don't know..) there's no real reason for them to be that price anymore. But they raised the price instead! They'd better be fucking god-like when it comes to detail or I'm going to be pissed off. Anyway, this is the first time I've seen a blatantly vicious, aggressive and completely unethical move being made by the company. These people can't afford the miniatures, that's the entire reason why they're buying from other countries. It's not like they're getting one up on the company, they genuinely cannot afford the prices at home. This will not and cannot net Games Workshop more money. You can't suck blood out of a stone.

It's just entirely unfair for all affected and I think it's a fucking dirty tactic. I have no respect left for this bloodthirsty, ruthless, fucking disgrace of a company.

On the bright side, this increases the chances of the company going under(Pardon the pun), and the license for the games being taken up by someone who will actually make progress with the storyline. And Matt Ward will be no more.

tldr; Fuck Games Workshop, we might get a new supplier if we're lucky.


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## ashmo (Mar 20, 2011)

Well that's just crap  luckily I've got heaps to paint I'll get all of it done before deciding what to do.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

everything has its ups and downs. screwing people internationally with the policy and having international prices in places like Australia retardedly high wont net them any money.

the price hike going from Metal to Resin might be uncalled for, but if they never sell the models from them being too over priced i am sure they will lower the price eventually.

the price Hike does not bother me that much, i even expected it, to be honest, but the international shipping bullshit they are trying to pull now makes me feel sorry for people in Australia.

then again, people who COULD afford the GW prices but bought from the cheaper stores did exist weapon, not everyone was a nice guy who bought from GW if they could.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

That doesn't justify a thing to me KA.
I'm filled with too much murderous rage to comprehend your post, let alone read it...

But seriously, they have gone too far for me.

Making money is one thing, but alienating an entire country is another.

I can see the point you make, honestly, I can.

But I'm just too pissed off to give you a rational counter-argument right now.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

do not get me wrong, weapon, alienating ALL of AUSTRALIA and the other less well off countries with their policy is complete and utter bullshit, I will not for one second ever argue that point.

the price hike from the resin to metal though, is not that bothersome.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I am at a loss for words. I a not affected by this all that much as I order from the US mainly when I guy stuff, but for fucks sake, I feel bad for the AU folks.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> So instead of sending a letter or something silly like that, I'll voice my displeasure with my wallet. Maybe other people will do the same thing and Games Workshop will decide that they need to clean up their act, but until they do, it's Hordes for me.


Sending a letter isn't silly at all. A well-written hardcopy letter can have a lot more effect than you might think.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Svartmetall said:


> Sending a letter isn't silly at all. A well-written hardcopy letter can have a lot more effect than you might think.


Eh, I'll give it a go then. Still not spending another penny on anything from GW though.


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## Uncle Nurgle (Jun 26, 2008)

Okay, please do correct me if I'm wrong as I can imagine I could be quite easily way off the mark, but...

Is this not a move to prevent Uk and Europe based internet companies out pricing local retailers in the countries that they've restricted access to?

As in, stopping store A closing down in Australia because no one bothers to buy their product when they can purchase it from website B for cheaper? Rather than some dastardly attempt to convince people to buy from their retail chain? I mean, don't they get the same amount of revenue from the sale to independent stores regardless of their location? 

Like I said, maybe I'm way off the mark and this is just evil corporation tactic number 235, it's just that was actually the first thing that popped into my mind when I read the statement and it wasn't until I read this thread that the whole evil corporation tactic thing entered my perhaps naive brain.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I am going to call the Memphis NA HQ this week, planning on going to the Fine Detailed release party on the 29th as well. Going to see WTF is up.

Any Aussies want or need something I am more then happy to buy and remail to you for a small fee to cover gas.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Uncle Nurgle said:


> Okay, please do correct me if I'm wrong as I can imagine I could be quite easily way off the mark, but...
> 
> Is this not a move to prevent Uk and Europe based internet companies out pricing local retailers in the countries that they've restricted access to?
> 
> ...



The problem is this. GW made it almost essential to buy from online stores in some countries. I rarely order from anywhere other then the US because I can get the product here, even at full MSRP, at a pretty decent price. Folks who live in AU get raped when buying it at full price due to what GW makes their retailers charge. They literally pay almost double what I do for the exact same thing.

I understand that import taxes and shipping costs but if a person in the UK can send it to the AU and it is still a lower price then GW should do something to resolve that as well. 

I am a GW fanboy but this is a bullshit way to stop a problem that they caused.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Uncle Nurgle said:


> Okay, please do correct me if I'm wrong as I can imagine I could be quite easily way off the mark, but...
> 
> Is this not a move to prevent Uk and Europe based internet companies out pricing local retailers in the countries that they've restricted access to?
> 
> ...


if you read up on all the posts in the thread, you notice that the prices in Australia from their GWs are retardedly high, where as getting the models from a third party company, like maelstrom, got it for a far more reasonable price. If GW lowered the prices in australia and the like, i am sure many would not complain about this new policy as much.


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## Carna (Mar 13, 2008)

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1080173

I ask you, $46 for 24 Moria Goblins, 12 of which are just copies, with no extra bits and very few converting options, $46?!! I thought when it was $35, it wasn't great but I could understand the price, but $46 is bullshit. Understandable with Marines or something like that, you get options options and more options, but this is bullshit and now no one can get it cheaper from UK?!


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

I'm surprised they didn't try and shaft us Norwegians or the Swiss too since we're not in the EU. I wonder how that would have impacted the nationals this year which is held in Switzerland :read:


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> I'm surprised they didn't try and shaft us Norwegians or the Swiss too since we're not in the EU. I wonder how that would have impacted the nationals this year which is held in Switzerland :read:


its not that they are not screwing you guys, its just that GW has always tried to screw with Aus and only now are Australians feeling it since they cant buy online anymore for cheaper.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Ha. This is pretty fucked up. GW always went about business half backwards.

That the retail prices are twice as high as elsewhere seems unusually harsh, especially since the Australian dollar is pretty high right now. Which means either there is some reason normal business costs so much more for them down under or, they are trying to royally screw the Australian gamers. (It seems like the latter, but since I don't know anything about Australian duties and tariffs I figured I'd ask)

Is there some Australian import duty on GW stuff that makes it so much more expensive?

Seems strange as mentioned that GW wouldn't just equalize the wholesale costs, because that would just as easily balance out the RRPs. (Or at least I expect it would.)


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

well you have to remember this, if GW can get australians to pay that retarded price right now, they would be basically haveing a money pool from it!


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Import taxes and other charges only make up an overall figure of 5% of the total Australian shelf price, this is pittance.

This tiny charge does not justify the massive 45% average price differential.

Why does GW Australia charge so much, because they can, and now that we have been isolated from the rest of the world, which now includes buying from rock bottom priced indies from America. I contacted several Indies in the US and they are forbidden to export to Australia under GW Contracts, even though the US and Australia signed a free trade agreement.

So we as i have said we have been completely and utterly isolated.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Achaylus72 said:


> Import taxes and other charges only make up an overall figure of 5% of the total Australian shelf price, this is pittance.
> 
> This tiny charge does not justify the massive 45% average price differential.
> 
> ...


GW wants you to buy from them in australia. and yet, they are being retarded with their pricing.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I wonder weather they are stopping the sale of gw kits from the forgeworld website. When i buy FW i get a couple of chimeras or LR's thrown in because they cost half as much. Thing is i buy almost all my gw stuff on ebay now. Either us or aus. There was a time when i would pay full aus retail(too much money) but that time has passed. Everything i buy now comes from alternatives to gw. Not to mention alternative manufacturers as much as possible.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Looking it at another angle to which i had not considered is that now there will be a flood of dumped Warhammer armies on EBay, maybe i might be able to finish off my Chaos Army afterall.

So i suppose this is a good thing, an opportunity to take an advantage of others misery, like a vulture, i'll feed on the dead.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

was looking at getting a dreadknight to convert for my dark mech(gk) army. Retail aus $90. Ebay us including freight $50. From a seller with all good feedback. Might not be the end afterall. Ebay is your friend.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Achaylus72 said:


> Looking it at another angle to which i had not considered is that now there will be a flood of dumped Warhammer armies on EBay, maybe i might be able to finish off my Chaos Army afterall.
> 
> So i suppose this is a good thing, an opportunity to take an advantage of others misery, like a vulture, i'll feed on the dead.


This goes back to my greatest fear in this hobby. All the money I spent and time invested will be for nothing when GW goes under or becomes second to Privateer Press because of shit like this. 

If they can fuck AUS over like this whos to say it wont happen hardcore to America, Canada, or any country that hasnt felt the sting as much? 

I seriously hope GW go damn near bankrupt again like they did so long ago. Only Ironicly its not lack of sale prices from bad manaegment but this time it because overcharging and alienating.


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## Whamhammer (Jan 19, 2009)

Unbelievable!!! I just got back into the hobby and i guess i'm out. 220 dollars for a battalion is too much for me as well as the new price hikes with this bull shit new resin crap. FUCK GW


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I just want to add that I feel really sorry for you guys that have been shafted by this fucking idiotic move on GW's part, it's flat out wrong and I can't see any real justification for it. 
I struggle to afford UK prices and have started taking painting jobs to feed the plastic crack addiction. 
For what little good it might do has anyone thought of putting a petition together? Twinned with a shitty letter or several thousand it may go some way to at least letting GW know what complete dicks they're being. 
Other than that I would say vote with your wallets and switch to Warmachine/Hordes.


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## Kettu (Nov 20, 2007)

*GW about to commit suicide. Rumour Control. Take with lots of salt.*

Ok, source is 4chan's /tg/ board of all places so take with more salt then you average Fast Food meal but anyway...



> "Basically, GW have decided that starting soon, nobody and that means absolutely nobody, other than the guys who deal with the products etc, will know what is in the pipework or being released until 1 WEEK before it's actual release date. There will no longer be any incoming emails or the like, apparently the first that anyone will know of anything will be on the back page of WD. Which looks like releases will be tied into the same day that WD is released bearing in mind that subscribers get it around a week early.
> 
> Now before you all post pictures of salt cellars etc, I shall tell you where I heard this info. Today GW held it's National Managers Meeting at GW HQ in Nottingham, and the source of this was actually present at the meeting. So bearing in mind it came from the head honchos at GW, and was announced to each and every member of GW management from across the country, please refrain from the salt jokes please."


If this rumour is true then this'll be the final rumour we'll ever hear.

:suicide:


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

ill believe it when i see something not known till a week before its release


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

There will always be leaks. To many people have to be involved for only the head folks to be in on it.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

also a good note would be that the 'incoming' emails and the like make people salivate and speculate and gets them wanting said army, thus giving GW more money, so if they actually did do something as stupid as shut all leaks up including intentional ones, they would be trying to kill their own company so hard they may aswell just say GW is closing.

but as i said before, i wont even consider this true until it happens, ESPECIALLY SINCE its from, that place of all places.


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## Caratacos (Aug 26, 2008)

I heard this rumors started to spread on GWikileaks...
j/k


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## aberson126 (Sep 12, 2009)

store owners of shops will have to know before hand that things are being shipped to them. They have to keep their mouths shut. You cant trust people. Keeping things secret is impossible


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Caratacos said:


> I heard this rumors started to spread on GWikileaks...
> j/k


that would be WikiGWeaks (wiki-gweaks).

Also, i'll ask around, see if i can get a more solid fix on this situation. perhaps a more thorough explanation. Because i think we deserve one, and i know people.

CP


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Commissar Ploss said:


> that would be WikiGWeaks (wiki-gweaks).
> 
> Also, i'll ask around, see if i can get a more solid fix on this situation. perhaps a more thorough explanation. Because i think we deserve one, and i know people.
> 
> CP


i doubt that this is anything more then overzealous bullshit being spouted on 4chan, but having someone look into it would be good anyway.

still, with their new policy, going to resin with price hikes, and plastics getting a price hike in some ways, they really want to destroy a GOOD portion of their playerbase outside the UK, dont they.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> i doubt that this is anything more then overzealous bullshit being spouted on 4chan, but having someone look into it would be good anyway.
> 
> still, with their new policy, going to resin with price hikes, and plastics getting a price hike in some ways, they really want to destroy a GOOD portion of their playerbase outside the UK, dont they.


yeah, i feel ya.

I'll definitely do some poking around this week and see who i can get to squeal. That would be a shame if it's true, but i wouldn't worry about it too much right now to be honest.

CP


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

I am more worried about the 5 dollar price hike again, and GW going under from trying to strangle as much money as they can out of people


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

/tg/ is good for only one thing concerning GW products and thats early poor res scans of a codex (sometimes they have hi res but not at first).

Plus GW would be very stupid to do something like this as it would massively impact their pre-order sales. 1 week is barely enough time for UPS ground to ship stuff to you. Add in that FLGS need time to order the new product and it makes this seem mostly unbelivable.

Most likely this will be an unknown for 4-6 weeks before launch not 1 week if anything.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

Whats the big deal with people knowing whats coming out? So what? Why cant we have a list of all the stuff that GW is planning on coming out with and when?


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

unxpekted22 said:


> Whats the big deal with people knowing whats coming out? So what? Why cant we have a list of all the stuff that GW is planning on coming out with and when?


Because the upfront cost of starting an Army for any wargame is very high.

If you are looking at building an army to play from scratch (like you were playing SM and you wanted to start Tomb Kings) and you saw that a new codex was coming out in 6-8 months you might wait on buying those models until the new codex release. Which means GW doesn't get the money as quickly.

Taking it a step further, lets say we had a hard list of what was coming out over a 24 month period. Sales on armies listed would tank because people would wait for the new codex they KNOW is coming out at a set date down the road. Sure sales would pick up upon release but before that you would have several armies being dead weight on the shelves.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Commissar Ploss said:


> that would be WikiGWeaks (wiki-gweaks).
> 
> Also, i'll ask around, see if i can get a more solid fix on this situation. perhaps a more thorough explanation. Because i think we deserve one, and i know people.
> 
> CP


The Explination will be as follows

"LOL WE LIKE YOUR MONEY!"

.....

no really my friend got that when he phone asking why the bunker store that should of opened 2 months ago doesn't exist. (Ya! 4 months with no store! and starting soon i cant order from Wayland or maelstrom so my paints will run out as well!)


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

How is GW planning to commit suicide? Sorry but not releasing details of what's new and upcoming doesn't strike me as a fatal development. It won't affect established lines and since there most successful range, Space Marines, haven't had a new release in ages (not counting the sub-codices), I don't see them going under because of this.

As for the price rise all you overseas people are complaining about, I don't pretend to know anything about that, but here in blighty everyone is raising their prices, not just GW.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Wrote Customer Service a letter saying that due to the arrogance of GW I'm leaving the hobby. Got this is reply:

_Dear Jamie

Thank you for your email. We appreciate that you have concerns regarding this issue and your feedback will be passed on to our management team as apart of our normal customer feedback process.

Thanks again, feel free to contact us again if you have any further concerns.


Did you know? You can place orders over the phone using a credit card by calling us at the Hobby Service Centre. You can also post your orders to us and pay with a cheque or money order.

We can also help you resolve rules queries and provide updated information on your previously placed orders.

Games Workshop Hobby Service Centre Australia
Po Box 576
Ingleburn
NSW 1890
Phone: 02 9829 6111
Email: [email protected]
Webstore: www.games-workshop.com

- Please do not delete previous messages in the email trail as it will assist us in your inquiry -_

Sounds like a "fuck off we don't care to me - not amused by the "did you know..." line - I'm sorry did you not fucking get what I just said?

That said I would encourage everybody who is fucked off about this to write a letter to them. Take 5 minutes and god knows maybe it might do something. 

I an't buying anything from them ever again.


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

Yeah...from a purely buisness stand point the one week thing isn't really possible for a successful company. The reasons have been discussed here and are the mail system, preorders, and local game stores. The best they could likely due is 4 weeks if they want things to run smoothly. I don't feel this will destroy them in any way but continued, significant price hikes could.


Doc


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## eupluvian (May 13, 2010)

Just sounds automated to me. Either by software or by indoctrination. 

What a crap day. Been glued to forums all day trying to make sense of this. Got not much done at work.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

docgeo said:


> Yeah...from a purely buisness stand point the one week thing isn't really possible for a successful company. The reasons have been discussed here and are the mail system, preorders, and local game stores. The best they could likely due is 4 weeks if they want things to run smoothly. I don't feel this will destroy them in any way but continued, significant price hikes could.
> 
> 
> Doc


when has GW ever come across as a successful company though? the only reason we put up with their bullshit is because we want the models like crack.

and they are the asshole dealer who keeps hiking up the price for us to get that crack!


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## ZARDRA (Nov 12, 2008)

this all started over a year ago when the head honchos at Nottingham decided to change the company from being what it used to be and turn it into a retail chain that is focused solely on recruiting new customers and doing bugger all for vets. there are alot of things planned for gw and not a lot of it is good. the way they are treating staff in the stores is getting a joke, if you think for your self your looked at like your a freak, if you question any thing that the regional managers or HQ say you don't fit into there profile and are gotten rid of as quickly as possible. there will always be roomers about whats coming out but dont be surprised if some of the specialist games go for good. all though if what i heard about next year is any were near true then we will all still be going back for more punishment, bring on 6th edition!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Yeah, that's a canned response, probably automated. What it's saying is that your comment/complaint has been received and it's being forwarded to higher-ups that can actually deal with it. In the meantime, buy some more of our stuff (sort of douchey but not uncommon with companies nowadays).

The real question is if you'll get any sort of response from a real person.


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## docgeo (Jan 8, 2010)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> when has GW ever come across as a successful company though? the only reason we put up with their bullshit is because we want the models like crack.
> 
> and they are the asshole dealer who keeps hiking up the price for us to get that crack!


Yeah I hear you but these prices really open the door for a new dealer with lower prices.

Doc


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Yeah, that's a canned response, probably automated. What it's saying is that your comment/complaint has been received and it's being forwarded to higher-ups that can actually deal with it. In the meantime, buy some more of our stuff (sort of douchey but not uncommon with companies nowadays).
> 
> The real question is if you'll get any sort of response from a real person.


do we ever from GW?


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

docgeo said:


> Yeah I hear you but these prices really open the door for a new dealer with lower prices.
> 
> Doc


the funniest part is anyone with half a brain can steal from the crowded GWs... its sad.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> do we ever from GW?


Not really, no.


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

There is of course another unpalatable conclusion you could draw from these actions. GW may have realised they have over-reached themselves in global expansion and are now trying to retrench their operation.

It may be that over the coming years you find them closing down their overseas assets and only become commercially available to the EU or even harsher, the UK.


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## AlexHolker (Apr 27, 2011)

Cypher871 said:


> There is of course another unpalatable conclusion you could draw from these actions. GW may have realised they have over-reached themselves in global expansion and are now trying to retrench their operation.
> 
> It may be that over the coming years you find them closing down their overseas assets and only become commercially available to the EU or even harsher, the UK.


If that were the case, the UK-based independent retailers that sell internationally would be one of the things you'd want to _preserve_ - they let GW sell to more people without any extra infrastructure on GW's part.

It also wouldn't be the same year they're _bringing back_ the Australian Games Day.


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

if GW was planing to scale back on there world wide operation, they be stupid to tie the hands of indie online shops like wayland.
im in the UK and im not happy about this ruleing by GW, as its a great way to loose old and new custom. 
Heres an idea for all you ausies, seeing as GW are bring back GD to you this year, dont go, and if you have already got a ticket, get a refund, cos if hardly anyone turns up to GD in protest of the embargo, they may have a re-think.
But then again they probaly wont give a toos knowing GW


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

Actually, what really needs to happen are two things. A strong petition to demand the condemnation and reversal of these fascist policies and a complete boycott from as many folk as possible all around the world on buying GW products of any description.

Can we as one of many forums instigate this kind of action? Are there others that feel the same way? How can we link up to make the voice of the public heard by this company? The only way to make them halt what they are doing is to put a serious dent in their revenue!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Cypher871 said:


> Actually, what really needs to happen are two things. A strong petition to demand the condemnation and reversal of these fascist policies and a complete boycott from as many folk as possible all around the world on buying GW products of any description.
> 
> Can we as one of many forums instigate this kind of action? Are there others that feel the same way? How can we link up to make the voice of the public heard by this company? The only way to make them halt what they are doing is to put a serious dent in their revenue!


I'm all for organizing a boycott. I imagine between massively decreased sales and a veritable ton of emails, letters, faxes and so on even Games Workshop will have to bend under the pressure.


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## Akhara'Keth (Nov 20, 2010)

Cypher871 said:


> Actually, what really needs to happen are two things. A strong petition to demand the condemnation and reversal of these fascist policies and a complete boycott from as many folk as possible all around the world on buying GW products of any description.
> 
> Can we as one of many forums instigate this kind of action? Are there others that feel the same way? How can we link up to make the voice of the public heard by this company? The only way to make them halt what they are doing is to put a serious dent in their revenue!


I would totally support you. there are so many big forums outside where you can address a lot of players.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Write your emails people, remember not to go full out nerd-rage. Even if you're not affected by this, just sending a message telling GW you think it's an asshole move and you're not happy with it will help.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

You can post angry comments here also: http://www.facebook.com/gamesworkshopofficial

Just 'like' the group and then post away.


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## Akhara'Keth (Nov 20, 2010)

Katie Drake said:


> You can post angry comments here also: http://www.facebook.com/gamesworkshopofficial
> 
> Just 'like' the group and then post away.


that would mean that I have to 'like' GW. NEVER!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Akhara'Keth said:


> that would mean that I have to 'like' GW. NEVER!


Just 'like' it, make your comments then unlike it. Seriously, I feel that it's important that GW's customers do everything they can to make their displeasure clear.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

This is fucked. Seriously fucked up. 

Gonna have me some angry words at some people... :ireful2:


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## HereticHammer01 (Apr 29, 2011)

A boycott could be a good idea. There's some very large forums on here, so especially if they worked in co-ordination...

The thing is once GW takes the plunge to resin it will not want to turn back because of the sunk costs involved: the costs which are lost forever. If it has to switch equipment to making resin, they don't want to have to change back. So it could be too late. With the increased competition the rumoured price increase seems like a nonsensical move. Resin should be cheaper than plastic, FW prices are due to hand sculpting probably. I think GW will lose market share with this move since if anything they should decrease the price of the models.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Yeah, that's a canned response, probably automated...
> 
> The real question is if you'll get any sort of response from a real person.


And this is why you send a hardcopy letter to an office, not an email. Hardcopy letters get attention (and results) that emails never, ever will; and there's no such thing as an automated response to hardcopy. 

And, guys and gals? Never, _ever_, send 'angry rant' letters. That's a fast track to the waste-paper bin. Remain polite, while registering your disapproval as strongly as you can.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Email sent and letter going in the post tonight. I think it's ridiculous.

I'll be willing to supply folk overseas to keep their hobby alive if the embargo continues.

P.s. where have all the adds and green text links appeared from on this forum? It's doing my head in!


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Svartmetall said:


> And this is why you send a hardcopy letter to an office, not an email. Hardcopy letters get attention (and results) that emails never, ever will; and there's no such thing as an automated response to hardcopy.
> 
> And, guys and gals? Never, _ever_, send 'angry rant' letters. That's a fast track to the waste-paper bin. Remain polite, while registering your disapproval as strongly as you can.


Absolutely correct, never ever write angry, it translates onto the page, also never write drunk, that also translate onto the page.

To get to these folks you must send well written letters, it furthers your cause and always be respectful of whom ever you are writing to.

Anyway i found my saviour on Ebay, been looking and found several US based EBay storse that sell way below Aussie shelf prices and even with postage it still is roughly 30% lower than GW Australia.

GW Australia thinks it has won, sadly this only shows how much they are mistaken when an overated chimpanzee like me can find great deals.

I am more determined to stay in the hobby, just to spite those arsewipes


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> You can post angry comments here also: http://www.facebook.com/gamesworkshopofficial
> 
> Just 'like' the group and then post away.


Done, left an almost polite message and will sit down and write a formal letter to them tonight.


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## Sacrean (Apr 9, 2009)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> when has GW ever come across as a successful company though? the only reason we put up with their bullshit is because we want the models like crack.
> 
> and they are the asshole dealer who keeps hiking up the price for us to get that crack!


Well since we keep going back for more that is what I would call a successful company. They get our mney and we keep going back. It's the definition of insane. But I will continue to do so because I love most of their models andI love the game. Sorry if it seems like I am trollig. I'm really not. Just pointing out that they are in fact successful.


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## exsulis (Jul 17, 2008)

aberson126 said:


> store owners of shops will have to know before hand that things are being shipped to them. They have to keep their mouths shut. You cant trust people. Keeping things secret is impossible


The store owners have to put in orders for said product before it can be ordered, and shipped. GW already bones store owners with no info until right before a release. Literally, blogs have the product codes before the store owners. I've seen it get to the point where the WD had the Next issue spoiler on the back, and the store couldn't order yet because GW hadn't released the product codes. And this was for the Grey Knight Releases :shok:


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## Abomination (Jul 6, 2008)

I really doubt that this would count as suicide. The price raise in time may be suicide but not announcing things in advance I doubt is going to hurt them. Before the internet you would have had to wait till WD anyway unless you inside access.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Abomination said:


> I really doubt that this would count as suicide. The price raise in time may be suicide but not announcing things in advance I doubt is going to hurt them. Before the internet you would have had to wait till WD anyway unless you inside access.


no pre-orders = no impulse buying = no egging people on to anticipate it = no profit


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## ashikenshin (Mar 25, 2010)

Pre-orders will still be there, just one week in advance instead of a month


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

I think a more likely thing that this rumour alludes to would be the managers getting told to tell their staff to shut up about new releases until a week or so before release. That actually sounds feasible. 

Another thing needs to be borne in mind here: I've seen how much alcohol is consumed at National Managers Meetings. It's really quite scary. So any rumours coming from said meetings can often get a little garbled...


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Remember guys you can all participate in a boycott of sorts. 

GW makes money from a couple of things, the main 2 are: models and modeling supplies. I you cannot bare to boycott their models, just stop buying GW modeling supplies instead. There are plenty of other companies that make equal, if not superior modeling supplies. Just substitute your GW paints and supplies for; vallejo, the army painter or p3 stuff.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

Aye. Paints excepted, GW supplies are (in my experience) absolute shite, and cost about twice as much as a version that's actually superior in most of the ways that matter. My flush cutters cost around $3, and they're brilliant. 

Actually, I suppose I've been boycotting that particular element of their line for years without even thinking about it, so that's a pledge I know I can keep. Anyone else care to sign on?


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## qotsa4life (Dec 31, 2009)

There's a facebook group being run by a dude that seems to have some contacts within GW. It's a petition sort of thing about the embargo and it would seem this guy's actually lined up a meeting with GW management. Anyway, you should check it out for yourself http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_109577025797447


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## fynn (Sep 19, 2008)

yeah, hes hopeing to hear back from GW about a meet up in the next 24 hours, so with any luck it will go ahead, and he may get some straight answers.


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

I have been onto the Office of Fair Trading's website this morning. The advice there is to email the Consumer Direct website for advice which I have done this morning.

You are restricted to a certain number of letters to get your question across but I think I managed to convey a concise history of the problem and ask for advice...I have no legal or business background so could only put across my point of view as a consumer.

Here is the email to which I await a reply:

_Hi, I would like some advice on a UK company called Games Workshop. Year upon year they push the prices of their products up claiming that costs of raw materials are to blame. This can be argued as a valid point for some of their products but the increases are annually applied across their full range of products including literature and was happening long before the economic crisis of the last few years. It is beginning to reach a level now where it is almost an elitist product. 

As any enterprising business, they have contracts with numerous independent retailers to supply them with their products. In the past they have successfully restricted the sale of new products on Ebay which has lead to a number of on-line stores selling GW merchandise normally at a 20% discount to the UK, EU and further afield to Australia, Asia, the US and Canada and Japan.

Their latest bid to continue their monopoly is to effectively hamstring the independents by restricting their sales to UK and EU countries only. Maelstrom Games recently posted on-line GW's new T&C's.

...Games Workshop's new Terms and Conditions, come into force on the 31st of May 2011. These, among other things, restrict the sale of language products - (rulebooks and codices that are not in English) and, most crucially of all, restrict the sale of all of their products to the European Union, although there are a couple of countries (such as Norway and Switzerland) that are geographically within Europe but not in the EU that we can still sell to. 

The full list of countries that we can sell GW products to is as follows: 
Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom.

The conditions of our contract with Games Workshop mean that we have to say goodbye to our loyal customer base in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States, as well as those from Brazil, Chile, Peru, Russia, Japan and South Korea...

My question to you is: is this legal and is there anything that can be done about it?

Regards._

As soon as I get a reply I will add it to the discussion.


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

Cypher871 said:


> I have been onto the Office of Fair Trading's website this morning. The advice there is to email the Consumer Direct website for advice which I have done this morning.
> 
> You are restricted to a certain number of letters to get your question across but I think I managed to convey a concise history of the problem and ask for advice...I have no legal or business background so could only put across my point of view as a consumer.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:

Please keep us informed on the reply


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

Oh, I'm quite certain it's legal - they're not stupid enough to institute a policy like this without having it vetted by the lawyers first. But it damn sure isn't ethical.

Still interested to hear what the OFT's got to say, though.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Inquisitor Aurelius said:


> Oh, I'm quite certain it's legal - they're not stupid enough...


Hahaha, that made me laugh.


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

I actually send a similar mail to the EU trade ombudsman to enquire if that embargo is actually legal or if it violates certain laws. Not that my first language is not English, so they'll just have to forgive any spelling or gramatical errors. 

_Subject _

_Trade embargo from games-workshop _

_Content _

_Hello

I'm contacting you because of a strange trade embargo being enforced by a Brittish company called Games Workshop. Games Workshop produces and sells toy miniatures in several countries world wide. Their recommended retail price however, varies greatly from country to country and even more so when you look at their prices in different continents of the world.

In recent events, Games Workshop is prohibiting certain UK based online retailers (mainly Maelstrom Games and Wayland Games) from shipping their products to certain areas of the world (mainly the southern hemisphere) in their terms and conditions. This is because their recommended retail prices in those continents are nearly twice as high as those in Europe of the United states.

So my question to you is, can Games Workshop actually do this? Doesn't this infringe any EU laws that are instated for freedom of trade? 

I personally do not suffer from this, as I live in Belgium, and the independant retailers that I mentioned can still deliver and sell goods to me. I'm asking this on behalf of all the people in the gaming community who live "down under", because to me, it feels like unfair business practises to just enforce trade embargos at a whim.

I thank you in advance to look into the matter
kind regards,
Koen_

Not sure if that'll make any difference, but it's worth a shot, no? :so_happy:


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

I have had a reply as set out below. It looks like the only thing you could push is the monopoly aspect if it could be proven.



_Wednesday 18th May 2011

Dear Mr Coe,

Thank you for your enquiry to Consumer Direct, your reference number for this case is [Ref]. In view of the information you’ve supplied, it appears that you may have a customer service complaint against the trader. The following points may apply;

A trader can charge what they like to sell their product and to whom they choose, the law just states that price should not be misleading. 

However if you feel that as a result the trader is creating a monopoly, then you may wish to contact the OFT reporting Centre on 0845 7224499. 

If you are also unhappy with the customer service received, you may still wish to approach the matter from a customer service point of view. 

Customer service complaints regularly result in customers receiving more than they are legally entitled to as the trader may be willing to provide something, as a gesture of good will. 

Our experience shows, that the best way to deal with this is by letter. Send the letter by recorded delivery, keeping a copy as this has more impact, and can help to prove that you have been reasonable. 


Below I’ve included some useful suggestions for your letter.

Although it does not give you legal rights, traders have a responsibility to comply with various laws and regulations, some of which are enforced by the Trading Standards Service. Traders should not, for example purposely misleads consumers, so where appropriate, we do ensure that Trading Standards are informed. 

If you need further advice on this case please call 0845 404 05 06 for assistance from one of our advisers. Alternatively you could look at our website, www.direct.gov.uk/consumer

Thank you for your enquiry 

Kate Vaughan 

Consumer Direct South West Advisor


Customer Service Complaint - Letter Suggestions

Personal Name / Address Details

Trader’s Name

Trader’s Address

Trader’s Postcode

Date

Start your letter ‘To whom it may concern’

Include the details of your contract. This may include; 
Ø What you initially agreed to.

Ø The date that you agreed. 

Ø The cost of the service. 

Ø Any additional agreements made since the contract was formed. 

· Outline your complaint, briefly explaining your reasons for complaining. 

Ask for what you feel you’re entitled to. 
Request a response to your complaint and set a reasonable date for this response. 
End the letter ‘Yours Sincerely’ 
Sign off with your name. 


Please note that Consumer Direct wishes to make clear that any advice provided is based on the information supplied and is subject to revision or amendment in the light of further evidence. Only the Courts can interpret statutory legislation with any authority.

Hopefully, the advice given has addressed the main issues raised within your email. 

You may also benefit from reading these ‘frequently asked questions’ which have been included to help answer further questions you may have. 



*Frequently Asked Questions:*

The company has ignored my previous complaint – what else can I do?

Larger companies often have stores nationwide so if you’ve a complaint against a large company and have not managed to resolve the issue (through complaining to your local store or department) you could consider researching their head office address, in order to escalate your complaint. 

This can be particularly useful, if for example, you have experienced poor customer service in store, as the company may not be aware of the way in which their employees are behaving. 

The same can be said for unprofessional or ‘pushy’ doorstep sellers (such as those selling gas and electricity agreements) – Companies should be made aware when their employees are behaving in an unacceptable manner. 

Smaller companies can prove more difficult, as if the trader refuses to acknowledge your complaint, you may be left, unable to pursue the matter further.

However, if you do not get a satisfactory response to your complaint, you may always choose not have further dealings with the company, once you have fulfilled your contractual obligations. 

Traders have a reputation to protect and repeatedly failing to address customer’s complaints can quickly result in a reduction of customers, which can, in turn significantly reduce a companies profits. 



What if I haven’t received any terms and conditions?

The trader cannot introduce new terms into the contract after it has been agreed (unless this was agreed or stated when the contract was formed).

Only terms that were fixed as a part of your contract will apply. If the trader does attempt to add new terms into your contract, this may be considered a breach of contract.

Often however, traders only need to make terms and conditions available, meaning that if for example, goods are purchased online, terms and conditions may have been provided on the trader’s website, by email or perhaps even sent to you in the post - Double check to ensure no terms and conditions were provided. 

If you spoke to the trader before agreeing to the service, terms may have been agreed verbally. These verbal terms will apply but may be more difficult to prove.



Are Trading Standards able to help me?

Sellers should comply with various laws and regulations, some of which are enforced by the Trading Standards Service so we ensure that where appropriate, the relevant Trading Standards authority is informed. 

Please be aware however that Trading Standards do not generally assist consumers in pursuing their individual cases and where a consumer has legal rights, the only way they can enforce these would be through the courts - rather than with the assistance of Trading Standards. 

Please follow the advice given and consider contacting the seller in writing, requesting a good will gesture. 



I haven’t got an address for the seller – How do I find one?

If you’ve access to the internet, try researching the seller’s details online, perhaps by searching the sellers name and location in an internet search engine (or any other details that may narrow the search). You can also try online business listings such as yell.com

Check Companies’ House (the government register of UK companies). Visit companies’ house online at http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/ or call their contact centre on 0303 1234 500 (national call rate).

If you don’t have access to the internet, you may find the sellers address in a local, published business directory (such as yellow pages or the BT phone book) 

Consider contacting advice agencies such as the Citizens Advice Bureau, as they may provide assistance. 

If you have an address for a seller who may have recently moved, try writing to this address, as the seller may be collecting their mail or having it forwarded on. 

Please note that Consumer Direct wishes to make clear that any advice provided is based on the information supplied and is subject to revision or amendment in the light of further evidence. Only the Courts can interpret statutory legislation with any authority.[/COLOR]_


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I don't think Embargo is the proper term. An Embargo intimates that the areas focused on cannot purchase GW product at all. They can, they simply need to buy it from local sources. That's not an Embargo, it's Marketing policy. It would be interesting to see if they allowed UK GW to sell to these areas. That would give a great boost to the "monopoly" argument.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

I'm not defending GW's pricing policy outside of EU/USA (which is what this is actually about), but GW are not doing anything unethical or unlawful.

It's not unethical. It's not healthcare or anything like that; it's a luxury leisure purchase.

It's not unlawful. Any company can give exclusive distribution rights. It's contract law.

[Edit: It's just bad business].

The monopoly argument won't go anywhere. GW own a 'monopoly' on their own products in that they can set whatever price they like for them and they can choose who and who not to sell them to. They do not control the miniatures or tabletop wargames market and they do not control the resources that allow other companies to produce the same type of products.

The issue is the more longstanding matter of the RRP in Australia (and elsewhere). It seems that the first proper step would be to ask GW why they charge more (something like +60%) in Australia; what is the justification for the pricing? and go from there.

And, of course, if all else fails UK RRP + Ebay shipping still works out way cheaper than Australia RRP.

I feel sorry for the people who want to by the stuff, but can't afford the ever increasing prices, but any trading standards complaint is not going to get anywhere.


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

increaso said:


> I'm not defending GW's pricing policy outside of EU/USA (which is what this is actually about), but GW are not doing anything unethical or unlawful.
> 
> It's not unethical. It's not healthcare or anything like that; it's a luxury leisure purchase.
> 
> ...


I do have to agree with your sentiments chap. At least the advice I sought is from a reputable source and not speculation.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Mcdonalds got sued once for their hot coffe being hot and not labling the hot coffe was hot. 

Point is the whole Monoply, Fair Trade Act, ect maybe a long shot, but people won cases or force things to happen over dumber shit.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> Mcdonalds got sued once for their hot coffe being hot and not labling the hot coffe was hot.
> 
> Point is the whole Monoply, Fair Trade Act, ect maybe a long shot, but people won cases or force things to happen over dumber shit.


 
Oh so thats the reason why my HP salted peanuts has a warning on the back saying 'this product may contain nuts...'


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## Arias (Jan 8, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> Mcdonalds got sued once for their hot coffe being hot and not labling the hot coffe was hot.
> 
> Point is the whole Monoply, Fair Trade Act, ect maybe a long shot, but people won cases or force things to happen over dumber shit.



It wasn't just that the coffee was hot, other McDonalds were serving there coffee at at least 40 degrees cooler than this particular one, the lawyers argued that if it were served at the appropriate temperature it would not have caused her third degree burns so fast. The whole thing is still stupid, putting a cup of coffee between your crotch is daft to say the least and her own fault but whatever.

Anyway, back on topic. 

I know they can't really be proven to be a monopoly but it still seems kind of odd to be only able to buy it from there stores and not allow any other competition, especially for just specific regions. I would think that something could at least be worked out or done about it, maybe a loophole of some sort.

Just to add this, I have never really seen a company limit you purchasing an item just at there location, it would seem like a bad business decision but I have never seen any laws against it.


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## AlexHolker (Apr 27, 2011)

Cypher871 said:


> I have had a reply as set out below. It looks like the only thing you could push is the monopoly aspect if it could be proven.


That _is_ what they're doing: GWAU is being granted a monopoly on the import of GW products to Australia by its controlling company, in order to enforce unreasonably high prices being charged in this region.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

AlexHolker said:


> That _is_ what they're doing: GWAU is being granted a monopoly on the import of GW products to Australia by its controlling company, in order to enforce unreasonably high prices being charged in this region.


No because a third party could buy GW product at retail price in the UK, ship it to australia and sell it at whatever price they wanted.

They are being given the sole licence for importing the product from GW at GW wholesale prices.

This happens all the time - when the Iphone was first released in the UK it was avaiable only from O2 - that wasnt considered a monopoly.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

So what you're actually saying is that GW selling products that they make themselves and own all the rights to exclusively, and have no actual obligation to sell anywhere but in their own stores if they so chose equates to them holding a monopoly? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. They chose to allow others to -also- sell their products, they can choose to stop. 

Monopoly laws are there to ensure fair distribution of sales of the *same* products by multiple producers, like banks, and phones that can operate on multiple networks. GW products are only produced by GW, and intended for use in a game that only GW makes, so they don't hold a monopoly, they are simply the sole manufacturer. Now, if 40k was open-source material and multiple manufacturers could make models for the same ruleset, -then- GW could be said to be holding a monopoly...


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

Having looked into it a little I am not convinced that shipping doesn't play a large part in the costs.

I have sold a lot of kit on ebay over the years and postage costs to Australia have always been high. The reverse is also true.

Take a look at this Aussie website selling flat pack 3mm MDF scenery products. I was considering the Imperial Ruins set which runs at £82. You then have an additional £57 (69.5% of the original retail cost) to pay for postage. Then, when it arrives in the UK you will have to pay import Tax on that £82 retail price.

Suddenly, that product is no longer a viable purchase!


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

i have to firmly disagree. It is to do with the base price. How is it that i can purchase a model in the UK and get it shipped to australia for half the price i would pay in a shop here. They both travel the same difference and in fact as the gw bought item would have been shipped surface in bulk the shipping would be less. Also that there has never been a price correction for the huge changes to the exchange rates between our two countries. 5 years ago the pound was almost 3:1 against the dollar. It is now less than 2:1 and the prices are unchanged, or going up?


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## GhostDog (Apr 16, 2010)

Cypher871 said:


> Having looked into it a little I am not convinced that shipping doesn't play a large part in the costs.
> 
> I have sold a lot of kit on ebay over the years and postage costs to Australia have always been high. The reverse is also true.
> 
> ...


On another forum I made a list of different products from GW UK, GW Aus, Wayland Games and a NZ FLGS Vagabond Games.
I won't put the list here, but it basically came down to the following.

Unit -------- GW UK ----- GW Aus ---Vagabond ----- Wayland Games
--------------(GBP) ------ (NZD) ------ (NZD) -------- (GBP) -- (NZD)
DE Warriors -- 15.50 ------ 48.00 ------ 40.80 --------- 12.30 -- 25.11

The exchange rates at the time of this were 
GBP 1 = NZD 2.05052
NZD 1 = GBP 0.48768

So using that rate a straight conversion is Warriors GBP 15.50 = NZD 31.78. So this means we are paying around 31.5% more than UK. Which is a NZD 16.22 in freight & taxes per box. I really doubt the freight & tax is that much more. Also I've found freight to be around $6-$7 from Wayland games when I purchase a couple of boxes. 
Of course this is dirty math as it doesn't take into account VAT 20% (I believe) and GST (Aus/NZ version of VAT) NZ GST 15%

I've worked for a company that used to ship in 3-4 pallets of books from the US. We used to add $3-$4 for freight per book, and that was adding a bit on to the actual cost.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

shaantitus said:


> i have to firmly disagree. It is to do with the base price. How is it that i can purchase a model in the UK and get it shipped to australia for half the price i would pay in a shop here. They both travel the same difference and in fact as the gw bought item would have been shipped surface in bulk the shipping would be less. Also that there has never been a price correction for the huge changes to the exchange rates between our two countries. 5 years ago the pound was almost 3:1 against the dollar. It is now less than 2:1 and the prices are unchanged, or going up?


OK, here is an interesting point made on another thread I didnt really think about until now.

What is the average salary of a shop working in Australia? Im thinking its a lot higher. And as this is the major cost for any retailer this may be the reason for the price differences. Just a guess by the way


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## Biellann (Sep 6, 2010)

humakt said:


> OK, here is an interesting point made on another thread I didnt really think about until now.
> 
> What is the average salary of a shop working in Australia? Im thinking its a lot higher. And as this is the major cost for any retailer this may be the reason for the price differences. Just a guess by the way


Minimum Wage for a Retail Employee is A$16.47 (part/full time) or A$20.32 (casual) per hour. This in in Queensland at least, on an award contract. They can't legally pay lower than this.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

What does that translate to on current exchange rates?


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> What does that translate to on current exchange rates?


Using the rates above you get £1 for 2 dollars (ish).

So their minimum wage is higher than ours by a little to a lot depending on whether casual or part time/full time. 

edit: Just thought i'd add that I don't know what the manager salaries are like in Australia, but in the UK they are a joke (something like £13k-15k starting).

As I understand it house prices are very high in Australia (and presumably renting costs), but the standard of living and salaries are better than the UK.

It quite easy to use this information and say:

It costs more to run a GW shop in Australia and the Australian's have more spare cash to throw around.

But that is mere speculation. 

The only way you will have a chance at understanding the in-and-outs is to contact GW.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> What does that translate to on current exchange rates?


1 Australian dollar = 0.657807309 British pounds

From a google search.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

increaso said:


> It quite easy to use this information and say:
> 
> It costs more to run a GW shop in Australia and the Australian's have more spare cash to throw around.
> 
> ...


 
The first part is fact, the second part is speculation.

austrialians in general according to their average wage converted to pounds earn about 45% more than people in the UK.

Therefore the reason why prices are higher in Australia is that you have to pay the staff more, the haulage company more the storage company more, the electricty company more - etc etc.

However, if the australians in actual fact HAVE more money left over, well that is pure speculation and extremely hard to prove either way.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

We told you to take Rolf Harris back or this would happen ! but you didnt listen


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> We told you to take Rolf Harris back or this would happen ! but you didnt listen


And not forgetting you got Germaine Greer, sucks to be you.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Nah - its simply a reaction to the fact that the aussies always win the ashe...

Oh wait


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## Cypher871 (Aug 2, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> We told you to take Rolf Harris back or this would happen ! but you didnt listen


Ahummmm ahaaaa, cen ya tell wut it is yet? :wink:


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

To Australia









Sincerely, 
Games Worshop


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

mcmuffin said:


> To Australia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which is also what some of us are responding to GW with:biggrin:


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## Biellann (Sep 6, 2010)

increaso said:


> Using the rates above you get £1 for 2 dollars (ish).
> 
> So their minimum wage is higher than ours by a little to a lot depending on whether casual or part time/full time.
> 
> edit: Just thought i'd add that I don't know what the manager salaries are like in Australia, but in the UK they are a joke (something like £13k-15k starting).


An admin assistant gets paid roughly (off the top of my head) A$24k+ per year, so I would imagine that a GW store manager would get paid a bit more.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

HOBO said:


> Which is also what some of us are responding to GW with:biggrin:


now lets not point any fingers here herp derp :grin:


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