# Are you new to the Horus Heresy?



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

I just wondered as I was waiting for the bus this morning, do people who are new to the Heresy understand what's going on? do they understand the relationships between the players? 

I've been playing 40k since I was 12, so that's a good 18 years now (really?! that long?!?!) and the Heresy has been a part of the game, a part of the mythology for a long long time. Sure it's been growing, maturing, and there's still a few surprises for us old guys (Alpharius has a twin brother?! interesting...), but mostly we take it for granted that the Emperor had 20 sons, 2 were missing, half turned traitor... we know which legions are loyal and which weren't... we know what happens at the end.

I just wondered, does the series explain things in enough detail to those who have no prior knowledge of the story?

So come on tell me, does it? Are you enjoying it?

Rev


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

personally i dont think it does any favours for new people, the series is splintered and has no core heresy story arc running though each book, its just a mish mash of semi related stories told out of order.
I look at it this way, Star wars focused on the life of Luke and his buddies and there struggle against the empire as part of the rebellion, now as we know the rebellion wasnt just the contents of the millenium falcon, there were operatives all over the galaxy engaged against the Empire, while the heresy books were following horus and loken, they made sense and were enjoyable. So for me the series should be following key characters and the events within the timeline of the heresy itself, not the preiod of time before Johnson arrived on caliban, not some dudes adventures on fenris etc. 
In my close friends and family 3 out of four people who started reading the series have stopped because of the lack of progress in the heresy story arc, im the only one who is still reading and thats mainly due to the people on this forum encouraging me to stick with it.
I think somone at black libary should be putting together a time line and some form of diagram to show the relative relationship between the books and the story arc of the heresy events so we can see an overall veiw of where the fuck we are and more to the point to show the writers where we are supposed to be going and start to make some attempt at moving the storys time line back to horus and towards the battle of Terra.


----------



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

I'm currently lending all of my heresy books one at a time to a friend who's never played. He's enjoying them - I've had to explain a couple of bit's briefly when he started, but other than that he's not stopped reading them yet.
Helped when I gave him Dawn of War and he could see what the units looked like.
Made my 65 yr old mum read one - she thought it was a bit too violent 
My brother was impressed by the language - I think he thought they'd be childrens books. Instead today, we learnt 'bellicose'


----------



## TechPr1est (Nov 6, 2011)

i started doing 40k a year and a half ago and the first book i read was the first heretic. when i read the first heretic i had no idea what was happening i actually thought the emperor was a god :laugh:. And only recently i re read it did it make sense. i have now read.....

The first heretic
half of Deliverance lost btw just a question: which book do you get to read about the fight between horus and the emperor?


(Non heresy)
Ultramarines omnibus
courage and honour
Path of the warrior
Assault on black reach


----------



## tabbytomo (Aug 12, 2008)

When i first started reading black library works, i knew pretttyy much nothing. i read all the HH in order, until i began having to wait for new releases, i filled that time with eisenhorn, ravenor, word bearers series ect...now theres not much i havn't read (just the IG stuff really). I think that whilst bitsandkits make a solid solid argument, i think that because of the scale of the HH and the vast numbers of people involved, in would be quite unrealistic account of what happened should we follow just a few key players. To understand some of the decision they made, and why things happened, we have to have background on other legions and primarchs. However, i do think that some of the stuff is way to irrelevant in the grand scheme of things to count as serious background for the HH, and perhaps the focus of some of the stuff needs to be more heresy relevant, than just an adventure or story set in the times of the great heresy, Saying that, theres only been one or two HH novels i havn't enjoyed.  

Peace.


----------



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

"just a question: which book do you get to read about the fight between horus and the emperor?"

Not written yet - that'll be somewhere near the end of the heresy - the rate we're going, about another 3000 books away...


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

im not against BL exploring every nook and cranny of the heresy, if they want to put out a book telling me the life and times and sexual adventures of dave the servitor while working on dulcote 19 agri-world thats all well and good, but it shoudnt be at the expense of the core story, if they put out three books a year at least one of them should involve Horus or his cronies and the advancement of the heresy itself, the way the series is at the moment we are in effect stagnant and as far as i can tell the heresy hasnt progressed any further than the dropsite massacar on Isstivan or maybe a tad further along from that point, but at the current rate we will be celebrating 50 years of 40k before we see The Big E telling Sanginus to suit up for Horus season.


----------



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

bitsandkits said:


> the life and times and sexual adventures of dave the servitor while working on dulcote 19 agri-world


Have you thought about pitching this to black library? I'm sure there's at least a mini trilogy in there. :biggrin:


----------



## tabbytomo (Aug 12, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> but it shoudnt be at the expense of the core story, if they put out three books a year at least one of them should involve Horus or his cronies and the advancement of the heresy itself


Say no more. This would be brilliant, all year round releases of general heresy-era adventures, and some core 'this is the heresy motherf***er' sponsored by Horus.


----------



## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Gret79 said:


> Have you thought about pitching this to black library? I'm sure there's at least a mini trilogy in there. :biggrin:


Knowing my luck they would take a trilogy and spin it out over 20 books and dave would not have sex after the first three books,but the focus would switch from daves lusts for agri-milkmaidbots to his servitor buddy's creation story 50 years prior to daves wondering hand phase, and no doubt Abnett would get involved and dave would develop a wet leopard growl when he orgasms.


----------



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

bitsandkits said:


> Knowing my luck they would take a trilogy and spin it out over 20 books and dave would not have sex after the first three books,but the focus would switch from daves lusts for agri-milkmaidbots to his servitor buddy's creation story 50 years prior to daves wondering hand phase, and no doubt Abnett would get involved and dave would develop a wet leopard growl when he orgasms.


This is turning into quite a pitch. All you need now is to have the story told in third person, by someone who wasn't there and I think you've got a workable series k:

But don't forget the image of GW - you'll need to remove all the sex. so I believe you're left with "servitors buddy creation" for 50 years...


----------



## radicallight (Sep 1, 2009)

I can only asume that the 'counsel of the heresy' (the authors sat around a table planning the next books) must smoke a load of weed, for them to come up with such a tangled narrative. "Just going over here for a bit...nobody minds do they?"
Clearly ADB is a proper toker, so he's got his shit together. Macca is an part-time puffer, so occasionally drops an outcast dead. While poor old Ben Counter is a complete lightweight, bangs out Battle for the abyss in a post bong stuper, and forgets to put in an ending. James swallow occupies the "what the fuck are you talking about" postion and is lost in a funk of conspiracy and assassins. Dabbers meanwhile, has just returned from the garage with 20 ****, a packet of pickled onion space raiders, and 10 kilos of Harribo. 
"Guys, guys, we forgot about about the white scaaaars maaaan"


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I know one of my mates who picked up the Outcast Dead as his first book, and then decided to not even bother with anything else, even after I recommended KnF, TFH and Horus Rising as the best books.

The Outcast Dead was that poor 120 pages in that it turned off people new to the series. I still don't know what actually happened to the Outcast Dead, the unmemorable characters, and general verbal diarrhoea of Graham McNeil attempting to right a) a gripping story, b) Mystery story simply ended up as word vomit.

Words from an English Literature Master, so not only did it fail as a story, but it failed as a technical piece of prose - something I think even Gav Thorpe has managed with Deliverance Lost and Fallen Angels.


----------



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

I think B&K has a good point about a visible time line. I'm hoping they put out another "collected vissions" style book and include something like that in there. I think I even suggested that to BL at one point via email...

Ok, any other people new to the series? What do you guys think? I'm guessing that, if teh narrative doesn't even make sense to seasoned 40k players it much be confusing teh hell out of newbies...


----------



## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Vaz said:


> I know one of my mates who picked up the Outcast Dead as his first book, and then decided to not even bother with anything else, even after I recommended KnF, TFH and Horus Rising as the best books.
> 
> The Outcast Dead was that poor 120 pages in that it turned off people new to the series. I still don't know what actually happened to the Outcast Dead, the unmemorable characters, and general verbal diarrhoea of Graham McNeil attempting to right a) a gripping story, b) Mystery story simply ended up as word vomit.
> 
> Words from an English Literature Master, so not only did it fail as a story, but it failed as a technical piece of prose - something I think even Gav Thorpe has managed with Deliverance Lost and Fallen Angels.


Thorpe didn't write _Fallen Angels_, just to let you know - he only wrote _Deliverance Lost_. Mike Lee wrote _Fallen Angels_. Although Thorpe does have an upcoming Dark Angels novel (_Ravenwing_, out Jan 2013).


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

That explained with it was different. Even so, Thorpe's Descent of Angels wasn't that bad.

I still enjoyed reading about Astelan after reading Dark Angels. Anyhow, yeah, complaints abound about TOD.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Even so, Thorpe's Descent of Angels wasn't that bad.


He didn't write _Descent of Angels_ either. 

That was Mitchel Scanlon.


----------



## Shepherd492 (May 1, 2012)

I'm too scared to start it yet. I've only read like five WH40k books so far, and only one of those was Space Marines (but it was Space Wolf, which had some good background info that I think included the HH) so I'm going to finish up some more and get introduced to more marine chapters before I start reading it. I don't want my experience ruined because I have no clue what is going on.


----------



## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

Shepherd492 said:


> I'm too scared to start it yet. I've only read like five WH40k books so far, and only one of those was Space Marines (but it was Space Wolf, which had some good background info that I think included the HH) so I'm going to finish up some more and get introduced to more marine chapters before I start reading it. I don't want my experience ruined because I have no clue what is going on.


cool, if you want more Space Wolves, read the HH books A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns (also read Battle for teh Fang, but that's not HH).

Other than that, read the series from beginning and in order and it should make some sense. The first three books are certainly in order. And get a copy of HH Collected Visions if you can justify the cash for an overiew of the whole story (and some awesome artwork, it's well worth £30 in my 'book' :grin.

Rev


----------



## bixeightysix (Jun 28, 2010)

I've not *just* started the HH series, but I can say, I'm fairly new to it. And fairly new to 40k overall. I just started playing regularly about a year and a half ago, and even still, that's off and on. I'm not extremely knowledgeable about the 40k universe either, but I understand the basics. I'm starting Legion (book #7, I think)...and I'm not neccessarily lost, but I do feel that things are becomming dis-jointed. I also find myself looking up quick summaries of each book to find what I'm going to discover in each book. (This led me to totally skip Descent of Angels altogether, and I'm planning on picking it up right before I read Fallen Angels. I want to do this so I recall the events of Descent of Angels better.)

I LOVED the way the first 3 books followed the same timeline, and I feel that was probably needed for the stage to be set. And as things expanded with Garro and the Death Guard, and then again with Fulgrim, I still found myself longing for the story to "progress". Then when I started Descent of Angels, I was totally lost and had to figure out "what to do" in regards to reading order.

I think this is where people who are not familiar with the 40k univers will lose interest. As I said, I am skipping Descent of Angels because it doesn't "fit" right here...or so I have read on several reviews/forums. I think this is where Black Library might be able to improve in the series. I understand the events of the Heresy are so HUGE that it can't really be covered in a mere trilogy, but I think if the books followed a timeline a bit better, readers newer to the 40k universe may feel less timid about diving in. I know in my case, I would enjoy it more and probably absorb things better. 

This is just my short opinion. I think it's a very enthralling story. The ultimate treason. I sometimes think of it as the equivalent of the US military branches fighting one another (Like Marines/Navy VS Army/Air Force)...it feels that unimaginable in a way. But there are definitely some flaws in the way the books were written and unless someone is willing to do some research, it might be a little difficult for someone totally new to the 40k universe to follow. I thoroughly enjoy the books though! I just wish everytime I read about a new legion, I didn't want to strip all my models and start a new Paint Sheme! haha!


----------



## Hachiko (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm new to the HH, and still fairly new to W40K as a whole. In the beginning, I stayed away from the Heresy books, I was worried that since they seemed to be graded so well (mostly...) that other 40K would seem subpar. Obviously this was totally unfounded.
I had no idea in the beginning how it was structured. I knew that Horus was a big honcho and that he turned traitor and the Emperor finally put him down. I for some reason thought that would happen in the first few books, the 'original trilogy' as some term it, and that the rest of the series dealt with the fallout, how it shaped chapters into the entities seen in the M40 era. And I was really psyched about that thought. Now that I know it is just a perennial cash cow, being dragged out to an inevitable conclusion. I have that kind of OCD that demands I read these things in chronological order, so I have to read a crapload of books before I get to The First Heretic, or some of the later Abnett books. 
Hell, I've only read Horus Rising and False Gods so far, and there was such a declination in quality between HR and FG that I am almost wary to commit myself to any further reading in the series.


----------



## Kelann08 (Nov 22, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> the life and times and sexual adventures of dave the servitor


Can we make it a graphic novel please? A very graphic novel...


----------



## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

Kelann08 said:


> Can we make it a graphic novel please? A very graphic novel...


Oooh, can we have a pop up book?


----------

