# 6th Edition, Rhino's Mobile Wall?



## Snake40000 (Jan 11, 2010)

With 6th edition being out for some time. I was wondering...

Running (Chaos) Space Marines in them is really no longer viable because they are not assault vehicles and they get popped really easy. So I get why so few people even want to take them.

But whats wrong with taking them as a mobile wall? Use rhino's to block a few shots from the big guns so your guys can get closer without being annihilated?

Yes I know it’s not 100% effective but its better than nothing especially against Tau.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Using Rhinos/Razorbacks as cover for advancing troops is a tactic I use with my Blood Angels. The units at least get cover, if not completely blocked. Just bare in mind that your mobile wall will give the enemy cover too, if not used right. There is also the idea of using your infantry to give something like a Predator a cover save. Again, I do this with my Baal Predators, creating a wall with my advancing Death Company in large games.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

I don't understand your sentiment. You mean to tell me you think it's better to footslog behind your transport than to ride it? What kind of topsy turvy logic is this? 

Tell me this then: If your opponent is placed so he can see past or over your Rhinos you'd rather have a 5+ cover for your guys than full on deny him those shots until your rhino is dead? You do realize that both the explosion crater and the Rhino wreck also provides your guys cover, right?
You'd also prefer a mobile army, or one with artillery, to get to ignore your Rhinos and go straight for your guys? I doubt that.

Since the arrival of 6th Rhinos are no longer obligatory. That doesn't make them bad, it just makes them so they aren't overpowered. They are still good (especially for CSM) and heres why:

1: Mobility. No matter how you look at it, Rhinos make your guys faster. By a lot. Why the hell would I want to run 6+1d6" a turn when I can, for a low price, move 18" instead? It's very simple really, I wouldn't.
2: Protection. Rhinos, for their cost, offers some really good protection for your guys. Sure, they aren't the toughest transport around, but it's one of cheapest in the game. Besides Rhinos get a whole lot tougher when you consider point 3.
3: Target saturation. Most lists have a finite amount of ranged, antitank units. So when your opponent has to choose between firing his weapons at your long ranged units or your fast approaching dudes in lunchboxes you are winning either way. 
4: Utillity. Even when your tracked squares have done their duty, delivering your guys right on top of your opponents forces, if they are still operational there's plenty of things they can start doing, including but not limited to:
Shooting (picking off a guy here and there is nothing to sneer at. Also, CSM Rhinos are pretty good at forcing Ground tests on flying monsters), Tank Shocking (to move guys off objectives or to blob them up for some template death), Blocking (both LoS and against counter charges), etc.

Rhinos, use them, love them, push them around the board making "Vroooomm!!" sounds. Once you go Rhino, you'll never go Giraffe (or whatever). 
There's only really one bad thing about them and that's the "wait a turn to charge" illness that has befallen my lovely transports. But the cure is easy: Make sure your guys can do something the turn they disembark. Essentially this just means that you should buy special weapons for all your units and you should leave your Bezerkers at home (or in a Land Raider if you must).

Rhinos: The cure for what ails your CSM in a shooty edition.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH said:


> push them around the board making "Vroooomm!!" sounds.


I do that. I love to do that. I usually laugh like a psycho when attempting tank shock.
Rhino FTW!


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

Walking your models behind a rhino is completely pointless as it is easy for units to move around and shoot at you rguys giving them only 5+ cover, instead of immunity to fire until the rhino is destroyer and you are forced to move a lot slowest. If you do want to do that then at least make sure there is another unit that you want to advance that is inside the rhino to make use of its ability to block fire, and even then only a unit that you aren't likely to put in a transport (e.g. cultists) follow them.

There was quite a nice idea in a CSM tactica from WD years ago and that was to put two rhinos 2" apart and get a shooty unit to shoot through the gap, now I'm not saying that you should go out of your way to do this but say for instance you have blob of boyz coming towards you and rhino nearby, move your rhino into position to force ither the boyz to assault the rhinos or go round, giving you the opportunity to fire at them a bit more.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Use the Rhino to get to where you need to be (the objective), then use it as mobile terrain. It blocks surprising amounts of firepower, especially from 'one-man-armies' such as Obliterators and Solodins.

Midnight


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

I feel I should clarify my tactic. I buy my Rhinos and Razorbacks with Tactical or Devastator squads, both of which sit in my backfield or take the ride. It is my Assault Marines that move behind the tanks, giving them cover without the risk. The fast tanks can still do all their shooting as well. Then, when ready, the Assault Marines can leap the tanks, if need be.


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

yeah that makes sens but then why not just deep strike the assault marines and just trnsport up the supporting units to give them some help in that turn where they can't assault?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Deep Striking exposes you to fire. Advancing ASM up behind a wall of Razorbacks full of Sternguard/Tacticals does not. Deep Strike scatters. Advancing normally doesn't. Deep Strike needs a reserve roll, of which BA have no manipulation. Advancing doesn't. Deep Strike means you cannot charge turn 2. Advancing does.

Midnight


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

MidnightSun said:


> Deep Strike needs a reserve roll, of which BA have no manipulation.


Aside from Descent of Angels that allows you to re-roll failed reserve rolls for JP units.

I use Razorbacks in every game I play with BA. They keep my guys safe from Vector Strikes for at least a turn and move them up on objectives well. What's not to like?


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

So what it sounds like is you don't like rhinos any more because you can't drop Assault Marines in someone's face turn 2 with them any more?

Working as intended.

And what kind of people are you fighting that don't just kite them? The purpose of transports is to enable something with low mobility to get around faster. Putting your guys on foot kind of defeats that purpose. You must not play against many Tau/Eldar players if they let you just run up and hit them.

Its worth noting that they are jump infantry as well. If you can't figure out how to get cover with something that can move 12" a turn without giving them a moving box you probably don't have enough terrain on the board.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Iron Angel said:


> you probably don't have enough terrain on the board


Pfft. Tell terrain to check itself, the game is still fun both ways. On my trench table there is literally nothing to block LoS entirely unless you're fighting the length of a trench and there's a bunker in between you (not seen often). Then Rhinos/Razorbacks are wicked cool for blocking LoS and completely necessary.

Don't even get me started on if you just so happen to roll a 1 for each 2x2 square for the randomly generated terrain rules.

What I'm saying is that if you need cover to be on the board to hide your marines behind you've already negated your use in this thread.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

The game is balanced around adequate cover. Its the whole REASON people manufacture their cover in the form of rhino walls. So, no, needing cover from terrain does not negate your usefulness, not being able to get cover does. And really, the only people that want to play a game on a board that has no terrain on it are Tau and IG.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Around 80% of my board is area terrain, and it's hella fun to play on. In fact, my BA have continually won out games against both IG and Tau on it and my Razorbacks have been pivotal in blocking LoS when it mattered most.

What you implied here: 



Iron Angel said:


> If you can't figure out how to get cover with something that can move 12" a turn without giving them a moving box you probably don't have enough terrain on the board.


is that there should be enough cover on the board that you don't need to do a Rhino wall to protect advancing jump troops. What I said here:



ntaw said:


> What I'm saying is that if you need cover to be on the board to hide your marines behind you've already negated your use in this thread.


is that this thread is about using vehicles (specifically Rhinos or Razorbacks) as cover, and this tactic comes in to play regardless of how much terrain is on the table as it assumes that there is nothing between your advancing troops and the enemy but your Rhino wall. Suggesting that one isn't using enough terrain is a useless contribution, and doesn't help the OP's inquiry at all. If they had more scenery this tactic wouldn't really need to be used, right?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> Its worth noting that they are jump infantry as well. If you can't figure out how to get cover with something that can move 12" a turn without giving them a moving box you probably don't have enough terrain on the board.


Rhinos block LOS consistently, which you can't do with many other bits of terrain. If you're lucky there'll be a shit ton of Bastions or complete buildings, but that's the exception and not the norm. Rhinos are cheap, manoeuvrable, and give you the best cover save in the game, which is not being shot.

Midnight


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

True, but they are really easy to destroy, and if your stuff is outside them, people can just ignore them if they can position well.

Too many people deathball and its easy to block their whole army's LOS, you need secondary units at the very least. But thats for another topic.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> True, but they are really easy to destroy, and if your stuff is outside them, people can just ignore them if they can position well.
> 
> Too many people deathball and its easy to block their whole army's LOS, you need secondary units at the very least. But thats for another topic.


I think the idea is you put stuff _in the Rhinos_, like Tacticals. The idea is to have everything NOT in a Rhino, BEHIND a Rhino. Otherwise I agree, advancing empty Rhinos up the field with Marines behind is an idea of such stupidity only Wade Price would actively advocate it in an official tactica. Goddamnit GW.

Midnight


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> I think the idea is you put stuff _in the Rhinos_, like Tacticals. The idea is to have everything NOT in a Rhino, BEHIND a Rhino. Otherwise I agree, advancing empty Rhinos up the field with Marines behind is an idea of such stupidity only Wade Price would actively advocate it in an official tactica. Goddamnit GW.
> 
> Midnight


Actually, this isn't a completely awful idea, dependent on the situation.

If you have a decent shooting mech army like say, GK, or a hybrid assault army like the hybrid BA discussed above, then this is a decent idea.

For a shooting army, the vehicle damage table is really punishing- Shaken means your shooting unit is Snap Shooting next turn, and Stunned means they can't shoot at all- and those comprise half the goddamn damage table. If they manage to start suppressing your units embarked inside your mech, then there is a VERY good chance that your own units will be unable to retaliate- meaning they will eventually have to be exposed to firepower anyway, with no way to damage the enemy. Compare this to simply hiding behind a Rhino, where the Rhino still needs to be killed, but now the unit is was protecting can punish your opponent for shooting the Rhino? Seems pretty good to me.

Also consider the applications in a fast hybrid assault army- the ASM can't embark in razorbacks, but they can hide behind them. If you're doing Blood Hamer or something similar, then taking empty Razorbacks for your Devastator squads which simply advance up the field protecting your ASM whilst contributing firepower? Also a pretty good idea.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

I've toyed with the idea of taking TLHB Razorbacks with 10 man Devastator squads only to combat squad the heavy weapons backfield and rush the 5 bolter marines up in the RB's. Good smattering of S4 AP5 fire (S5 AP4 HB, of course) plus if you happen to roll BGNT for the mission you have mad scoring units.

They would of course, be screening my jump pack troops on the advance and supporting my drop pod units that are (hopefully) ahead of the line and sewing mayhem with melta guns.

I know it's slightly off the initial strategy, but still in the same vein of Rhino/Razorback wall.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

My two cents is either take a shit ton of rhinoe's with bolter marines, or just run human waves at the opponent. Never between the two shall they meet.


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## Skrimir (Sep 12, 2008)

Ive found them really useful respect games without them. The simple fact they have to destroy it spending shooting turns of some units is enough for me as they are not firing to other vehicles. Plus your marines are protected probably the enough turns(normally 1) to make some damage. And with rhino saturation i even dont have to get other vehicles they even make some chances to finish alive by themselves.


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