# Synergy with Deathguard (don't say nurgle!)



## whittsy (Feb 8, 2013)

To put things simply, I've decided on Chaos: Daemons as my allied choice. I'm split between Slaanesh and Khorne. The reason behind these 2 choices is like this - Tzeentch and Nurgle don't really get a long so fluffy reasons not to be Tzeentch. Nurgle would be cool but I'm looking to add a splash of colour to the table top, don't REALLY want a sea of rotten green on the table. That leaves me with Khorne and Slaanesh. I've read through some tactica already on both the daemon types and it seems pretty even. I thought I'd ask. I've played Daemons a long time ago in fantasy, and i was really young and just loved the idea of massive melee bloodshed so I played khorne, but to counter that, i have a Khorne based Warriors of Chaos army with a hint of Tzeentch. Anyway, what would best compliment my Deathguard army, the warriors of the XIV Legion? Slaanesh, or Khorne? Was Mortarion closer to Angron, or Fulgrim as a brother? The daemonettes look pretty useful, and this "pavane" thing i'm reading about sounds handy, so does having some Seekers for outflanking etc etc, but Blood Letters, cheap, S5 power weapon wielding psychos really tickles my aggressive side. Then again, a Herald of Slaanesh can be a psyker (I think, I hope) and the Khorne Herald, cannot. Any tactical ideas to help me with my choice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers Heretics!


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

I know that i regularly play against a guy who brings nothing but khorne and Nurgle together and he ends up troucing me each and every time. considering you can take an aegis and man its emplaced weapon with BS5 bloodletters thats no small feat. plus with the addition of The hounds of khorne you can (in theory) basically tie up someones units first turn and there isnt much they can do about it. add that to the fact that they are 2 wounds each they also become pretty resilient. Bloodletters and a herald should easily take care of your Allied FOC and not cost you too much. Plus Nurgle and Khorne tend to get along very well.


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## whittsy (Feb 8, 2013)

SwedeMarine said:


> I know that i regularly play against a guy who brings nothing but khorne and Nurgle together and he ends up troucing me each and every time.


Goooooooood. Goooooooooood.



SwedeMarine said:


> The hounds of khorne


I've always liked the model of these!

Khorne does tickle my fancy as I have stated. Plus it gives me a reason to buy the Forgeworld Bloodthirster....


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

The downside of Khorne is that Daemonettes are so much better than Bloodletters. Seriously, the bunch of attacks, rending, fleet and faster run move of Daemonettes for one less point than the AP3, higher S, and Furious Charge mean that Daemonettes will be tearing up house against Termis, Monstrous Creatures, whatever, while Bloodletters only kill Marines marginally better than their opposite number... and that's when they get the charge. I'd go Daemonettes any day of the week. Even _Wednesday_.

Other than that, though, Khorne tends to be more durable and outright brutal, versus the bucketloads of quick attacks that Slaaneshi daemons get. Compare a Seeker to a Flesh Hound--one has Rending and runs faster and has more attacks, but the other has an extra wound and toughness (and Scout, which gives the Outflank that Seekers already have, albeit without Acute Senses). A Bloodthirster has wings, power armor, and a nastier statline than a Keeper of Secrets (though costs significantly more and can't be a psyker).

Pavane is no longer a thing from the tacticas it used to be, really, since it's now a radically different psychic power rather than just the ability it used to be. It's still useful against single-wound opponents with no FNP or invuln if you can reliably get the enemy Leadership to be very, very low, but... I wouldn't rely on that.


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## whittsy (Feb 8, 2013)

Good points @Mossy Toes . Slaanesh does interest me greatly, mainly so I have a reason to use Noise Marines. My main opponents are Space Marines and Tau, so rending and fleet and outflank would all be really handy against them. I'm thinking of picking up a Codex: Chaos Daemons on friday and do some study of my own. Suggestions are still welcome though, as I have no effing clue on Daemons!


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Noise Marines and their Ignores Cover AP3 is dead fun, though points-expensive for die-as-easily-as-Marines models.

Plus Daemonettes, should they get in charge range, are well-kitted to counter Riptides (and swapping an HQ's Exalted Reward for Grimoire is an excellent way of making sure that the Daemonettes get within that range).

Though Khorne Daemons can't get psychic powers, one thing to look for in terms of load-outs on MCs (Prince/'Thister) is the following, I've found: a Lesser Reward and a Greater Reward, the Lesser swapped out for an Axe of Khorne or Etherblade (the former comes on a Bloodthirster already), and the Greater swapped out for the Blade of Blood. The Blade gives the bearer Rampage, whether or not the bearer is using that weapon, so you get the other weapon's abilities (I prefer the master-crafted of the Etherblade to the still-nifty kinda-Instant Death of the Axe), and they're both Specialist Weapons.

This all means that should you be fighting against two or models (though to be fair, MC vs MC/tank showdowns are pretty common these days), you'll be getting a bonus 2-4 attacks per turn. Naaasty. 20 points for a Bloodthirster (leaving room for another Exalted or Greater Reward) and 30 on a Prince (leaving room for another Greater Reward and the excellent survivability they tend to give--you can feel free to swap out the less useful of the rewards for the Blade).

Of course, that's if you go Khorne. Seekers + Grimoire is a nasty combo with a 2/3 chance of being able to soak up most of your enemy's shooting for a turn with their excellent mobility. Grimoire does well to compensate for their frailty.

Of course, another option is the Flesh Hound rush. 20 2-wound models buffed to a Grimoire 3+ invuln running up the field for a T2 charge (with Scout and Beast movement) are nothing to sniff at.


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## whittsy (Feb 8, 2013)

To tell the truth, I'm having a hard time typing this reply seeing as I've got both my hands on it ("it" - if you know what I mean) from reading these ideas. I bought a codex off Ebay for 26 bucks less the retail price. BARGAIN! I seem to be drawn more, pardon the..whatever it is.... of the comment, to Slaanesh. I'll understand more of what you're all talking about when I get my new Codex. Thanks Swede and Mossy! Much appreciated!


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## SwedeMarine (Jun 3, 2013)

No worries. Slanessh is a good option as well.


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## Jdojo18 (May 8, 2012)

Personally I like Khorne much more than Slany, but Slaanesh can offset the plague's slow movement with their fast attacks and movement.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

It's Khorne vs Nurgle where Nurgle really shines. "Oh, you stack charge bonuses? Welcome to a little thing called defensive grenades."


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Mossy Toes said:


> Noise Marines and their Ignores Cover AP3 is dead fun, though points-expensive for die-as-easily-as-Marines models.


I'd just like to poke a hole here and say that they really, really don't die as easily as Marines. Against 48" range guns, they die like Marines, but since they're going to sit pretty much on your table edge in the corners to maximise the distance between them and the enemy, it's often hard to even get to them, let alone apply firepower. Wave Serpents can shoot their Shields but can't Twin-Link them, and Serpents are pretty damn inefficient against MEQs anyway. Most other guns are falling well short of you.



Mossy Toes said:


> Plus Daemonettes, should they get in charge range, are well-kitted to counter Riptides (and swapping an HQ's Exalted Reward for Grimoire is an excellent way of making sure that the Daemonettes get within that range).


Definitely. A lot of people see Daemonettes as anti-horde due to their high quantity, low strength attacks, but when you have that much Rending they become really mean (although while Daemonettes are good, Genestealers are terrible. Go figure).



Mossy Toes said:


> Though Khorne Daemons can't get psychic powers, one thing to look for in terms of load-outs on MCs (Prince/'Thister) is the following, I've found: a Lesser Reward and a Greater Reward, the Lesser swapped out for an Axe of Khorne or Etherblade (the former comes on a Bloodthirster already), and the Greater swapped out for the Blade of Blood. The Blade gives the bearer Rampage, whether or not the bearer is using that weapon, so you get the other weapon's abilities (I prefer the master-crafted of the Etherblade to the still-nifty kinda-Instant Death of the Axe), and they're both Specialist Weapons.


Is an Etherblade and Blade of Blood really necessary? Bloodthirsters already chop up pretty much anyone in melee, and paying more points for the privelige seems a little extraneous. I'd bring the Grimoire or nothing.



Mossy Toes said:


> Of course, that's if you go Khorne. Seekers + Grimoire is a nasty combo with a 2/3 chance of being able to soak up most of your enemy's shooting for a turn with their excellent mobility. Grimoire does well to compensate for their frailty.
> 
> Of course, another option is the Flesh Hound rush. 20 2-wound models buffed to a Grimoire 3+ invuln running up the field for a T2 charge (with Scout and Beast movement) are nothing to sniff at.


This is another good point, but a little footnote: if you're bringing the Grimoire because you had 30pts leftover when you'd made your list, that's a good use of the points and I'm all for it, but if you're bringing 20 Flesh Hounds or Screamers with the view to putting the Grimoire on them and making them super-tough, I'd a. heavily advise Fateweaver to ensure Grimoire goes off, and b. take Screamers, because then (with Divination on Fateweaver) you are quite likely to have your Screamers rocking a 2+ re-rollable Invulnerable and re-rolls to Hit.

In other words, don't build around the Grimoire unless you have reliability with it (Fateweaver) - if you're just bringing it to supplement an already-solid detachment, then you don't need the re-roll enough to warrant Fateweaver.


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