# Effects of Daemon Prince Ascension



## harlokin (Jun 3, 2011)

On another forum somebody posted that the Chaos Gods have offered Abaddon Daemonhood on multiple occasions, but he's turned it down each time in favour of his long-term plans, because “it changes perspective on existence and alters priorities”.

I'm trying to work out some fluff for my Night Lord Daemon Prince and was wondering whether the above is correct, and if so, what is the perceived impact of Daemonic ascension?

Any insights gratefully received.


----------



## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

He'll have access to some sort of Daemon army that he'll be tempted to use instead of the Chaos Legions. He probably thinks of the war against the Imperium as one that the Traitor Legions should be the main force behind, so the use of Daemons won't exactly create a sense of poetic justice when he destroys the Imperium. He'd lose the support of those who disdain the use of Daemons too (see the Night Lord's trilogy by ADB).

And the impacts of becoming a Daemon Prince?

You'd be stronger, more susceptible to the Grey Knights attacks, shunned by those who hate Daemon's, potentially gain a Daemon army or could ditch your old army and be a part of a Daemon one...


----------



## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

Not to mention as a Daemon Prince you become an immortal denizen of the Warp that will be in existence long after the imperium is dust. With that perspective, why bother destroying the Imperium when you can just watch it rot away?


----------



## stevey293 (Aug 16, 2011)

Grokfog said:


> Not to mention as a Daemon Prince you become an immortal denizen of the Warp that will be in existence long after the imperium is dust. With that perspective, why bother destroying the Imperium when you can just watch it rot away?


Would make a hell of a boring novel/game/video game though


----------



## harlokin (Jun 3, 2011)

Thanks for the responses guys.

I understand the points made, but aren't the Daemon Primarchs still respected, they continue to lead their former Legions rather than mobs of Daemons, and are still seeking to destroy the Imperium?


----------



## Machiavellismx (Sep 11, 2011)

in the Lord of the Night book, Zao hates the fact his former Night Lord brethern have become tainted and that his fellow captain is now a Daemon Prince, as he felt it betrayed what the legion stood for.

I think the idea that when you become such an immortal denizen of the warp, your priorites would change. like someone said, you can just watch the Imperium rot instead.


----------



## eyescrossed (Mar 31, 2011)

harlokin said:


> I understand the points made, but aren't the Daemon Primarchs still respected, they continue to lead their former Legions rather than mobs of Daemons, and are still seeking to destroy the Imperium?


Not exactly.

Perturabo just stays on his Daemon Planet, as do Fulgrim, Mortarion, Magnus and Lorgar. 

Horus is dead, as is Konrad Curze.

Alpharius/Omegon may be dead (at least, one of them) and even if they're not, they may not be working for Chaos and aren't Daemon Princes either.

So that leaves Angron, basically.


----------



## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

harlokin said:


> Thanks for the responses guys.
> 
> I understand the points made, but aren't the Daemon Primarchs still respected, they continue to lead their former Legions rather than mobs of Daemons, and are still seeking to destroy the Imperium?


They're certainly respected, but they tend to just lounge away in their Daemon worlds now. So no, they don't lead their legions, at least not like how they used to. There could be some exceptions that I'm unaware of though.

Edit: Ninja'd by eyescrossed...


----------



## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Also I have heard previous that due to demons being unstable outside of the warp is another reason he turned it down. Farther away from the EOT the worse the unstability gets and ole Abby is trying to get to earth.


----------



## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

harlokin said:


> Thanks for the responses guys.
> 
> I understand the points made, but aren't the Daemon Primarchs still respected, they continue to lead their former Legions rather than mobs of Daemons, and are still seeking to destroy the Imperium?


Only Angron has ventured from the Eye in centuries. The others brood on their planets and play the endless game of the gods. They are generally still respected but they very rarely lead any kind of army at all.

Remember, most CSM seek to achieve immortality, once they've achieved that they are generally left without a goal. With infinite time to achieve minimal and whimsical goals most cease to have much impact on the material realm. Also remember that a Daemon Prince has a harder time manifesting in reality than a CSM (who doesn't suffer at all). Basically they cease to be flesh and blood creatures and become much closer to true daemons, with all that entails.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

_Daemonic ascension_ refers to the process by which a mortal literally becomes a daemon. The very fabric of their own reality is shifted, they are transformed into immortal warp entities (without physical form, senses, or swathed in mortal concerns). They become completely bound to their patron and it's ideals, and considering the Dark Gods for the most part _"care nothing for the affairs of mortals"_ this is transfered to an extent to their daemons. Their primary concern remains the Great Game. Obviously though, daemons do still crave entrance to the material realm because it is a realm of constants, and no doubt Daemon Princes would still bear their mortal hatreds to a certain extent. But when one has become immortal and is as a god within the realm of the warp, such petty mortal concerns such as the Long War against the Imperium becomes near-irrelevant. 

In regards to Abaddon, it has been speculated by an Imperial scholar that he must have been offered daemonhood numerous times (because of the untold suffering he has caused the Imperium) but has refused the gift in order to pursue his personal goals and aims. It isn't necessarily true though. I don't imagine the gift of daemonic ascension is something that can be readily refused.


----------



## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

I don't think you can turn down Khorne when he offers you something either.


----------



## harlokin (Jun 3, 2011)

Thanks again for the insightful comments, it makes a lot more sense now.


----------



## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

Fulgrim has also been active after turning Daemon Bigshot, at least long enough to killing Rouboute Guilliman and instantly becoming 40Ks most beloved person ever. 

But yes, other than Angron, other Daemon Princes usually find that the material world loses much of its interest once they ascend. They have literally endless time to pursue their goals, and become aware of a new layer of intrigue and wonder. They may still keep nominally in touch (entering the materium a few times a millenia to try and mess with old rivals, like Magnus did with the Space Wolves).

Personally, I find it a bit weird. I mean, you've toiled and bled and schemed for centuries to reach a level of power your enemies can barely fathom, and once you get it, you just up and leave? I'd at least go on a last, epic spree of devastation before retiring. But GW has a sort of rule stating that no one above a certain power level can be active in the galaxy. Therefore, no Primarchs, Chaos Primarchs, or the biggest and baddest of greater daemonsare ever just hanging out and doing stuff across the setting.

Leave the spotlight solely on Draigo, where it belongs.


----------



## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Sephyr said:


> Fulgrim has also been active after turning Daemon Bigshot, at least long enough to killing Rouboute Guilliman and instantly becoming 40Ks most beloved person ever.
> 
> But yes, other than Angron, other Daemon Princes usually find that the material world loses much of its interest once they ascend. They have literally endless time to pursue their goals, and become aware of a new layer of intrigue and wonder. They may still keep nominally in touch (entering the materium a few times a millenia to try and mess with old rivals, like Magnus did with the Space Wolves).
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that Fulgrim really isn't Fulgrim anymore. He's been taken over by a Daemon.

Also, as others have said, once you attain immortality and see time not as a linear progression but closer to a snap shot of _is_, waiting a thousand or ten thousand or million years isn't that big of a deal.

Although Angron seems to have ants in his pants. He led that 250 year crusade of burn maim kill. Then the party at Armageddon, too.


----------



## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

hailene said:


> Although Angron seems to have ants in his pants.


No, I think there's far more wrong with Angron than ants in his pants. Nice understatement though :laugh:.


----------



## Harriticus (Nov 10, 2010)

When you become a Daemon Prince your ability to retain form outside of the EoT or the Warp also becomes a problem, was was the case for Angron in the 1st Armageddon War where the WB had to constantly waste time erecting devices to keep Angron in the Materium. Abaddon doesn't want this "weakness" despite the benefits, he's still determined to continue Horus legacy and indeed since Horus was never a Daemon Prince then to Abaddon he won't become one either. There's a kind of genuine loyalty and respect for Horus in Abaddon's actions despite his crazyness.


----------



## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

It's pretty interesting about the Daemon Primarchs. I think it goes to show that Chaos is happy with the state of the imperium. Throwing a black crusade at them every now and again combined with the other threats they face confirm that the right emotional energies feed them. The only reason to stop would be to stop another Anathema like the Emperor. So it looks like because of this the Primarchs now ascended to be able to glimpse the grand plan see that their revenge on the imperium is as complete as it can be. A slow death.


----------



## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

As many have said, the new state of mind and reality in which you perceive the world is staggeringly different from when they were mortals. Although not from the 40K universe a good idea of what being a daemon prince is a like is in Sword of Vengeance when Natajassa is born again as a Slaaneshi Daemon Princess, she not only sees the world in more than three dimensions but mortal's souls their history and possibilities in terms of how they would be if they took different actions in their lives. 

Don't forget that after the ascension whether or not that Daemon Prince has any particular reason for becoming a DP besides the power/immortality, if he still has that much hatred to screw around with the world's of the Imperium or just wants to terrorize the materium rather than play the great game, it's all based on the person who ascended.


----------



## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Meh. For me it's just hard to comprehend Lorgar doing nothing other than just sitting in temple meditating for 10k years (in the warp it's probably only been a few days) but still.

What strikes me as odd however is that Angron and Magnus apparently retain some of their mortal personalities, namely their need to exact revenge on the Imperium or on enemy chapters.


----------



## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Meh. For me it's just hard to comprehend Lorgar doing nothing other than just sitting in temple meditating for 10k years (in the warp it's probably only been a few days) but still.


Maybe all the stress from the failed heresy has made him constipated and he's been sitting on the crapper waiting for the bomb to drop, so to speak.



Malus Darkblade said:


> What strikes me as odd however is that Angron and Magnus apparently retain some of their mortal personalities, namely their need to exact revenge on the Imperium or on enemy chapters.


I think Angron just likes breaking shit. Don't think there's really a method to his madness. Khorne only cares for skulls for his throne, so Angron randomly rampaging across the stars killing things and spilling blood does seem to fit with Khorne's agenda.

As for Magnus, he's probably bored out of his skull, so plotting revenge keeps him busy. From what we see in _Battle of the Fang_, all the TS do is sit around reading moldy books and play with their armour. That, or maybe Leman Russ stole his electronic Sudoku game.


----------



## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Their _ascension_ to daemonhood robbed them of so much character and intrigue imo.

Perhaps BL needs to change up what daemon princes are expected to do (helping their respective chaos masters with their _ game_) and maybe have them return to focusing on dismantling the Imperium.


----------

