# how did horus turn the other primarchs?



## FORTHELION (Nov 21, 2009)

I remember reading in galaxy in flames(i think it was) that horus says he only contacted the primarchs that he thought he could turn, hense he never contacted khan guilliman lion etc. He also mentions he had to offer them something in return for their support.
So what my question is what did he offer each individual primarch in return for their support?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

For the most part he didn't actually offer them a physical reward, moreso he used his skills in oratory and diplomacy to appeal to his brother's egos, ambitions and weaknesses.

Thinking about it though he didn't actually have to personally turn that many. Fulgrim, Perturabo, Angron and Mortarion were the only ones he had to turn, and even then the Daemon was whispering in Fulgrim's ear aiding Horus' cause.

Curze was already a renegade and opposed to the Imperium before the Heresy erupted. Magnus forced himself/was forced into Chaos' and thus Horus' embrace. Lorgar was devoted to Chaos before even Horus. And Alpharius Omegon joined Horus for undisclosed reasons, likely having something to do with the Xenos Cabal.

As for the ones he did turn. He appealed to Fulgrim's arrogance and ego, but it was the Daemon that truly made him join Horus. That leaves Angron, Mortarion and Perturabo. Angron never saw eye to eye with the Emperor and was always a bloodthirsty murderer, he was manipulated by Horus even when they were both loyal, it didn't therefore take much to bring him into the rebellion. Perturabo had long been bitter and jealous, fed up of the unjustified way in which his Legion was treated by the Emperor, and the amount of praise he heaped on Perturabo's rivals. Perturabo's bitterness culminated in the massacre of Olympia, which pushed him into Horus' grasp. Mortarion is slightly harder to justify, given that no obvious reasons are there nor have been given. But ultimately its assumed that its due to Typhon's influence, his admiration for the strong and despisation of the weak (note that he viewed the Imperium as being taken over by weakling mortals who were usurping the warriors and warlords who had conquered the Galaxy - The Council of Terra taking power from the War Council for example), his bond with Horus, possibly his underlying hatred for the Emperor after it was he who killed the Tyrant of Barbarus and not Mortarion, his belief that the Emperor was selfishly seeking godhood, Et cetera. 

But you've also got to take into account that Lorgar had embraced Chaos decades before Horus, and thus had been working to plant the seeds of heresy throughout the Legions for a long time. _The First Heretic_ for example tells us that Chaplains were despacthed to each Legion and warrior lodges fostered in most as one method of attempted corruption.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

^ answer of the century!! +rep for that!


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## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

Horus indeed had some luck he had so many Primarchs on his side. Without some lucky events he would have never made it to Terra and his rebellion would have ended alot sooner.

Mortarion indeed is only Primarch that i cant find or think any reasonable answer to why he was turned. He didnt have any grudge against emperor as so many other traitor primarchs had. Typhus couldnt influence him so much maybe there had to be other reason. Was Typhus turned by Erebus too, cant remember that but Warrior Lodges had some part in this. 

As said above why some turned:

Mortarion - ?
Angron - Angry to his father
Perturabo - His legion used many times as occupation force
Fulgrim - Possessed by demon
Magmus - Horus played part in this, either get him killed, turned or his legion along with Wolves devastated
Konrad - Own agenda
Alpharius - Own agenda
Lorgar - First traitor Primarch


Horus would have been most having maybe only few of Primarchs on his side but due to lucky events had about half of them.


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

The Primarchs are all guilty of genocide on planetary levels, and I think Angron had very strong sense of honour (He was a gladiator with a VERY Strong sense of comradeship, as can be seen by his honour scars, and the way he speaks of his former male and female brothers in the gladiator ring).

I think he was bitter, and he lashed out the only way he knew how. This does not excuse his blood rituals, or the extreme tactics, it just shows that as far as he was concerned, only the people who shed blood with him were worthy of being his brothers. 

Also the worlds he conquered in his fathers name, they are technically his fathers property, and by basically leaving them as charnel houses, he is getting back at his father.

His every action since not being allowed to die has been to destroy everything that his father built.

Which is another reason I have no love for the Emp.

He could have saved all those people, but I am sure he realised that they would have influence over Angron in ways neither HE nor the other Primarchs would.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Angron had a hatred to the Emperor when they basically first met I believe, as the Emp teleported Angron off the planet he was on just as he and his gladiator brothers in arms were about to fight their enemy to the death, and he had to simply sit there and watch his loyal men get slaughtered. So I would think Angron has always had something inside of him wanting to get revenge on the Emperor.

As for Mortarian, the best I can think of is that Typhus was pledged to Nurgle before Mortarian. Typhus then killed the navigators and told Mortarian he could navigate them, but he led them into a trap were Mortarian was told my nurgle that either he devote himself and his legion to Nurgle or suffer a horrible death. So I think Mortarian turned because maybe he wanted to save his Legion?


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

Ultra111 said:


> Angron had a hatred to the Emperor when they basically first met I believe, as the Emp teleported Angron off the planet he was on just as he and his gladiator brothers in arms were about to fight their enemy to the death, and he had to simply sit there and watch his loyal men get slaughtered. So I would think Angron has always had something inside of him wanting to get revenge on the Emperor.
> 
> As for Mortarian, the best I can think of is that Typhus was pledged to Nurgle before Mortarian. Typhus then killed the navigators and told Mortarian he could navigate them, but he led them into a trap were Mortarian was told my nurgle that either he devote himself and his legion to Nurgle or suffer a horrible death. So I think Mortarian turned because maybe he wanted to save his Legion?


Mortarion seems like a git from the 1K sons novel. More like save himself. He complained bitterly about magic and sorcery in condemning the 1K sons, so why when OBVIOUS magic/sorcery offered salvation he took help. Why not die honourably by his own hand, or destroy the ship.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Ultra111 said:


> As for Mortarian, the best I can think of is that Typhus was pledged to Nurgle before Mortarian. Typhus then killed the navigators and told Mortarian he could navigate them, but he led them into a trap were Mortarian was told my nurgle that either he devote himself and his legion to Nurgle or suffer a horrible death. So I think Mortarian turned because maybe he wanted to save his Legion?


Thats how he fell to Nurgle, not how he ended up joining Horus (which happened a fair while before).


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I think that Horus appealed to each traitor primarchs successes and failures. It seemed that every primarch had success not seen by the Emperor and failures that were really bolded out by the Emperor and the Imperium.

*Primarch-Success-Failure*
Angron- His brotherhood with his fellow gladiators-his aggressive brain implants
Mortarion-Toughest Legion-failed to live up to their traits when the plague hit them
Fulgrim-embodyment of perfectection-tratedgy that happened to the legion from thestart
Magnus-Most powerful pycher and librarian-didn't know what powers to touch/use
Perturabo-best siegest, smartest in terms of technology-only world to have rebellion
Logar-most loyal to the emperor-idealogy different from emperor's 
Curze-knew how to get things done in terms of world compliance-he became demonized as he was created into a monster by Dorn by his acts which Dorn did not approve

Some of these failures of course, are what the Emperor saw as flaws, not necessarly failures.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

_Child-of-the-Emperor's _answer is more than sufficing for the intended question, but two things I think should be mentioned is that concerning Ferrus Manus and the Iron Hands, and Magnus and the Thousand Sons. For the former, it is mentioned often throughout the Post-Davin parts of _False Gods_ after Horus' resurrection, _Galaxy in Flames_ and even _Fulgrim_, of Horus' want, if not need to persuade Ferrus Manus to his cause. The main reason probably being Manus' strong connection's to the Mechanicum of Mars, again, the ceramite and admantine backbone of the Imperial war-machine, but also Fulgrim's close nature with the Primarch. I suppose it's possible to say that no matter how much flattery Horus poured onto Fulgrim's ego, he would need to either sever the bond of friendship between Fulgrim/Manus, or to draw Manus into his ''righteous'' Crusade against the bureaucratic ''corruption'' the Imperium was headed for. Of course, those who have read _Fulgrim_ know that the Emperor's Children failed to honey-trap the Iron Hands and thus _annihilated_ them at Isstvan V.

Another interesting point is that concerning Magnus and his Legion. I _think_ and please bare with me, those who wish to correct/verbally flay me, that Horus manipulated Russ into utterly destroying Prospero, instead of putting it under harsh reprimands like the Emperor originally intended (_False Gods_ and my dreadful memory being my source) This, combined with Tzeentch/One of the Change God's lieutenants admittance that Magnus was the Ruinous Power's first choice in their gambit to destroying the Emperor 's creation, show's Magnus' strength and overall importance. We can guess from this, that Horus saw Magnus as not only an incredible threat, but possibly a rival or even the thing that would sway the Galactic-wide war in either faction’s side. Horus' decision to wipe the Thousand Sons from the face of the Galaxy instead of using his polished flattery and charm upon Magnus is _very_ interesting.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Thats how he fell to Nurgle, not how he ended up joining Horus (which happened a fair while before).


Ah crap good point lol.

CotE pretty much answered it in his post To be honest.


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## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

I think it has been almost confirmed that it was Horus which changed orders of Leman or said something to him that made him come to destroy 1k Sons instead of arresting them. Think that Custodes was just with him to prove that he was under Emperors orders and not as fighting force. Sisters on other hand were maybe just as safe measure if things would go wrong or to prove how serious situation was.

Think Horus planned these 2 Legions to utterly destroy eachothers and maybe at same time get chance to turn Magnus to traitors side. Wonder if he tried to sway Leman too at same time. And whatabout other loyal Primarchs? I think he was quite close with Sanguinius too. But i guess that after Horus went traitor, he simply didnt have enough time before Istvaan to try others too.


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## Flayed 0ne (Aug 29, 2010)

in "Ravens Flight" Corax was contemplating Angrons motivations...concluding that it must have been "Freedom"...freedom from constraint...from holding back...a pricelss gift...and the -perfect- way to edge the likes of Angron into irrevocable Chaos!

...im sticking to it! 

"Age of Darkness" is comming out next year :shout: ...perhaps we shall learn all that we ask!


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

I think Mortarion's allegience to Horus' Crusade and his later fall to Nurgle should be written of _and made clear_; certainly to the degree that Horus, Fulgrim, Alpharius/Omegon, Magnus and Lorgar have been.

To my petite ''wishlist'', I will add Konrad Curze*, Perturabo and Angron. Curze may indeed have his story fleshed out and explained within the Night Lords series, but I'd still enjoy a Horus Heresy novel, featuring some of the characters from _Soul Hunter_; just as McNeill plans to use characters from _Storm of Iron _for his ''Iron Warrior Heresy Novel''.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

bobss said:


> To my petite ''wishlist'', I will add Konrad Curze*, Perturabo and Angron. Curze may indeed have his story fleshed out and explained within the Night Lords series, but I'd still enjoy a Horus Heresy novel, featuring some of the characters from _Soul Hunter_; just as McNeill plans to use characters from _Storm of Iron _for his ''Iron Warrior Heresy Novel''.


Really, great. Forrix and Kroeger were cool and seeing them in Heresy era would be sweet, a shame Honsou won't be there though. He's the king of the Iron Warriors.

ADB semi-confirmed that if he does a Night Lords heresy novel it will be about 1st Captain Sevatar, and that Talos and 10th Company won't be featured. Perhaps we can hope for a cameo like Zso Sahaal's in _Soul Hunter_ but apart from that, I hope he sticks to this. Talos and First Claw are awesome but Sevatar is promising, and though he won't survive the Heresy (ADB has already confirmed that Sevatar dies at some point in the Heresy and is replaced by Sahaal), I do want to learn more about the very first man to utter 'Death to the False Emperor!'. Who wouldn't?.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> ADB semi-confirmed that if he does a Night Lords heresy novel it will be about 1st Captain Sevatar, and that Talos and 10th Company won't be featured. Perhaps we can hope for a cameo like Zso Sahaal's in _Soul Hunter_ but apart from that, I hope he sticks to this. Talos and First Claw are awesome but Sevatar is promising, and though he won't survive the Heresy (ADB has already confirmed that Sevatar dies at some point in the Heresy and is replaced by Sahaal), I do want to learn more about the very first man to utter 'Death to the False Emperor!'. Who wouldn't?.


I agree. Writing about Talos and 10th during the Heresy would really shatter some of the potential, and be quite dull in all honesty. It's already looking like Talos will get 6 novels, he doesn't need a Heresy one as well! Other Night Lord characters needs to be explored, and from what little we know on Sevatar from _The First Heretic_, he sounds ace.

Now a cameo appearance is different though, and would be quite cool. Like the brief mention and different perspective of Zso Sahaal in _Soul Hunter_.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I could see Sevatar being killed by Corax on Istvaan if he is indeed going to die.

On topic, i was mostly under the impression that Mortarion had never really forgiven the Emperor for killing the tyrant on Barbarus and wasn't devoted to him like the others. The i assume Horus used that to turn him


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

> how did horus turn the other primarchs?


Probably a frock and knees up at the Pink Oyster.

Horus - "Hey Angron - fancy doing a drag night at the local gay bar?"
Angron - "Yeah sure"


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## Vast (Oct 26, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Magnus forced himself/was forced into Chaos' and thus Horus' embrace.


As far as I recall, Horus actually contacted Russ after the Emperor had dispatched him to Prospero, and convinced Russ to change his mission from "Bring Magnus to Terra" to "Wipe out the Sons". 

Consequently, Horus actually did have a hand in Magnus turning fully to Tzeentch's embrace in order to save the Thousand Sons. If Russ hadn't gone in with a search and destroy mentality, transporting Tizca to the eye of terror using chaos-borne power wouldn't have been necessary. With that said, until Abnett's book; _Prospero Burn_s comes out, we won't know exactly what Horus said. (correct me if i'm wrong.) 

PS: What you said is still correct, I just wanted to note that Horus did play what I feel is a fairly significant part in Magnus turning to Chaos.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I've wondered before is Magnus ever found out that Horus changed the order from "bring him to me" to "destroy them". Can't imagine him being ecstatic to find out he had done so


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> I could see Sevatar being killed by Corax on Istvaan if he is indeed going to die.


No, that's not going to happen. Sevatar is the main character in ADB's short story in the _Age of Darkness_ compilation. So we know he at least survives Isstvan V.



Vast said:


> As far as I recall, Horus actually contacted Russ after the Emperor had dispatched him to Prospero, and convinced Russ to change his mission from "Bring Magnus to Terra" to "Wipe out the Sons".


I don't believe it states anywhere that the Emperor ordered the apprehension of Magnus. In all sources it states that the Emperor directly ordered the Burning of Prospero. We now know that Horus contacted Russ in some form, but this may have been simply to reaffirm the Emperor's order. Valdor seems to have had a hand to some extent in all this as well.



Vast said:


> Consequently, Horus actually did have a hand in Magnus turning fully to Tzeentch's embrace in order to save the Thousand Sons. If Russ hadn't gone in with a search and destroy mentality, transporting Tizca to the eye of terror using chaos-borne power wouldn't have been necessary. With that said, until Abnett's book; _Prospero Burn_s comes out, we won't know exactly what Horus said. (correct me if i'm wrong.)


_A Thousand Sons_ informs us that Tzeentch had a hand in the Thousand Sons from their inception. They were always destined to fall.



Vast said:


> PS: What you said is still correct, I just wanted to note that Horus did play what I feel is a fairly significant part in Magnus turning to Chaos.


He may not have done.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Really? I was under the impression that the Emperor ordered Russ to aprehend Magnus and that Horus did change the order, and i thought the Valdor bit was just speculation and rumour with no official fluff actually supporting it

Although looking through it, collected visions does state the Emperor made it clear no mercy was to be shown. Still thought other fluff said it was aprehend though. Still can't find anything on Valdor supposedly manipulating it though


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## Vast (Oct 26, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I don't believe it states anywhere that the Emperor ordered the apprehension of Magnus. In all sources it states that the Emperor directly ordered the Burning of Prospero. We now know that Horus contacted Russ in some form, but this may have been simply to reaffirm the Emperor's order. Valdor seems to have had a hand to some extent in all this as well.


Indeed, I may be doing more than a fair share of assumption. However, given that Horus was already corrupted by this point, it seems likely his intentions would have been sinister. I personally believe that the Emperor wanted Magnus alive - Magnus' visions in Thousand Sons tell us that the Emperor intended for the Primarch to replace him on the Golden Throne. 

This would be a good point to come back to when _Prospero Burns_ comes out, in my opinion. 



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> _A Thousand Sons_ informs us that Tzeentch had a hand in the Thousand Sons from their inception. They were always destined to fall.


True, but I believe that Chaos took a specific interest in the Dark Angels (or at least, Johnson) from the beginning, and yet they remained loyal. Likewise, Magnus and the Sons stretched their loyalty to the end and beyond - who knows, if not for the feelings of betrayal that struck them after Nikea and the Space Wolves attacking Prospero, that loyalty may have continued. 

I still personally suspect that Horus had more than a small hand to play in the downfall of the Thousand Sons and their turning fully to Chaos.


Edit: I am almost sure that Valdor's involvement is specifically mentioned in Thousand Sons somewhere, however, I simply can't remember where. I'll re-read the end of the book tonight and get back to this.


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## Yllib Enaz (Jul 15, 2010)

I think its somewhere between the two. The Thousand Sons would have fallen at some point due to Tzeentchs influence, however it was the the Emperor/Russ/Horus that pushed them over the edge. If the attack on Prospero hadnt occured then maybe they Sons would have remained loyal and then fallen to chaos of few hundred (or thousand) years later. 

Also the appearanceof Magnus and his attempts to warn Horus in his vision on Davin may have led Horus to think Magnus was unturnable so having his legion removed by the Space Wolves was just lucky for Horus (in Horus' view).


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Valdor is sent to Prospero with the Space Wolves, but before and during the heresy times custodes were still sent out from Terra on highly important missions or on behalf of the Emperor, so it makes sense that the custodes would be sent with the Wolves. but i don't see anything more than that in it.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Really? I was under the impression that the Emperor ordered Russ to aprehend Magnus and that Horus did change the order


It's still not clear. Sources do note that the Emperor directly ordered the Burning of Prospero, and we still don't know exactly what Horus contacted Russ saying. _Prospero Burns_ will hopefully shed some more light on the subject.



Angel of Blood said:


> and i thought the Valdor bit was just speculation and rumour with no official fluff actually supporting it


'...He saw the honeyed words of Horus and the sinister urgings of Constantin Valdor, each spoken with very different purposes, but designed to sway Leman Russ towards a destination of total destruction.' - _A Thousand Sons, Page 535._

It's only an implication, but it's likely he was involved to some degree.



Angel of Blood said:


> Although looking through it, collected visions does state the Emperor made it clear no mercy was to be shown. Still thought other fluff said it was aprehend though. Still can't find anything on Valdor supposedly manipulating it though


The Emperor's warning at Nikaea should also be taken into account:

'Woe betide he who ignores my warning or breaks faith with me. He shall be my enemy, and I will visit such destruction upon him and all his followers that, until the end of all things, he shall rue the day he turned from my light.' - _A Thousand Sons, Page 356._

He seems fairly willing to visit destruction on any traitors...



Vast said:


> Magnus' visions in Thousand Sons tell us that the Emperor intended for the Primarch to replace him on the Golden Throne.


Aye, but that was before Magnus sent his warning to Terra and shattered the Golden Throne.



Yllib Enaz said:


> I think its somewhere between the two. The Thousand Sons would have fallen at some point due to Tzeentchs influence, however it was the the Emperor/Russ/Horus that pushed them over the edge. If the attack on Prospero hadnt occured then maybe they Sons would have remained loyal and then fallen to chaos of few hundred (or thousand) years later.


Magnus' warning to the Emperor was implied to have been planned by Tzeentch, which inevitably in turn led to the Burning of Prospero, which in turn led to Magnus giving himself over to Tzeentch. Its one long chain of cause and effect which started before Magnus even arrived on Prospero.


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## Vast (Oct 26, 2010)

I found the passage I was seeking in _A Thousand Sons_;

(Page 583 in the paperback)
He saw the honeyed words of Horus and the sinister urgings of Constantin Valdor, each spoken with very different purposes, but designed to sway Leman Russ towards a destination of total destruction. 

I assume from that that the complete sacking of Prospero was not Russ' original charge, and that Valdor wanted the sorcerers wiped out in the name of good, while Horus was either to weaken the loyal forces via damage to the wolves (indeed, one of the reasons Magnus cited for not fighting: "The Emperor will have need of his loyal wolves before the end...") or, depending on the dark knowledge given to Horus, to assist their fall to chaos.


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

Here's a list, from what I understand so far. 

Horus- Chaos corruped by eberus
Lorgar- Willingly corrupted, (I haven't read First heretic yet so forgive me if wrong)
Fulgrim- Playing on his pride and need for perfection, now possessed by deamon.
Magnus-Horus turned lemun russ against him so magnus thought the emperor wanted him dead so he turned.
Angron-Appealing to his 'hulk smash' personality. 
Mortarion- Because they were close apparently.
Pertuarbo- Same reason. Oh and apparently he thought dorn was a twat. I'm sure we will get expansion on these two someday.
Night haunter- He had committed atrocities and was already on the imperium's naughty list. Thought Gilliman was a tit. Hated Dorn too. (nearly beat him to death before the heresy even started)
Alpharius- He thought that siding with chaos would prevent humanity long drawn out destruction to chaos. (he was wrong). Also Thought/knew Gilliman was a tit.


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## SeventhSon (Dec 5, 2010)

*The Night Haunter*

personally i feel the Night Haunter was betrayed, from what i have read so far, Konrad Curze and the Night Lords were effectively the Witch Hunters of the Horus Heresy, his actions were fanactical

however he claims that after his :aggressive: with Dorn that an assassin broke into his room and tried to kill him, that was the first of many, and why he decided to flee

it seems from that, that the Emperor got cold feet and decided to deal with Curze before it was too late, alternately, it may come to light, which wouldnt surprise me that Horus sent the assassin, to incriminate Curze further, pushing him towards Chaos, which would be quite a nice twist to the Curze storyline


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Im curious as to what Fulgrim would have done had he never come across the Laeren Sword. I mean he was literally moments away from blowing Horus and the others away to hell when the swords whisperings stopped him, i like to think had he not had the sword he would have opened fire.

Also want to see another book for the Alpha Legion(well several actually) about them actually joining Horus. Whether they just simply sent him a message saying "We've heard what your planning, we're in" waited for Horus to contact them and faked having known about it beforehand and then agreed or what. Legion was excellent but it's just made me want a ton of other books about them now


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Im curious as to what Fulgrim would have done had he never come across the Laeren Sword. I mean he was literally moments away from blowing Horus and the others away to hell when the swords whisperings stopped him, i like to think had he not had the sword he would have opened fire.


Was that in the Fulgrim book? I don't remember it.

I don't know, Fulgrim seemed a bit corruptable to me. With his perfectionist nature I think he would hav ebeen swayed by the promises of greater perfection and fallen. The Laeren sword just made his fall into chaos faster I think.



Angel of Blood said:


> Also want to see another book for the Alpha Legion(well several actually) about them actually joining Horus. Whether they just simply sent him a message saying "We've heard what your planning, we're in" waited for Horus to contact them and faked having known about it beforehand and then agreed or what. Legion was excellent but it's just made me want a ton of other books about them now


I need to re-read Legion, think I'll enjoy it more now I know more about the alpha legion. It would be quite cool to have another alpha legion book, but I think other legions need one first.

Is there a book on the Night Lords heresy-era yet? I would love to read that.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Aye page.335-336 in Fulgrim. He thinks of the warning Eldrad gave him, realising he could end the rebellion before it even begins, has his ships go into attack formation and plot firing solutions. He realises that he actullay want so open fire and looks like he is about to when Eidolon brings him the Laeren sword claiming he requested it brought to him and the moment he equips it the feeling and urge to attack disappear.

And yeah, totally agree the other Legions need books first, but i just want more at some point, preferably from Abnett again


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Aye page.335-336 in Fulgrim. He thinks of the warning Eldrad gave him, realising he could end the rebellion before it even begins, has his ships go into attack formation and plot firing solutions. He realises that he actullay want so open fire and looks like he is about to when Eidolon brings him the Laeren sword claiming he requested it brought to him and the moment he equips it the feeling and urge to attack disappear.
> 
> And yeah, totally agree the other Legions need books first, but i just want more at some point, preferably from Abnett again


I don't remember any of that 

What I'm going to do is wait for more of the heresy series to come out, and then start from book one. Simply because otherwise I forget what happens in the previous books, and I have to read them again anyway, so I may as well wait :laugh:

Last heresy book I read for battle for the abyss. I initially thought it was going to be about the battle between the Ultramarines and the Word Bearers during the siege, and was disapointed with what was actually inside the pages...

I think that UM vs WB needs a book, as does the BA v Daemons (if there isn't one already)...you know the one where that Ka'branda (something like that) daemons slaughtered loads of BA whilst sang is trapped.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Ultra111 said:


> I think that UM vs WB needs a book


The war at Calth will undoubtedly be covered in at least a single novel at some point in the future.



Ultra111 said:


> as does the BA v Daemons (if there isn't one already)...you know the one where that Ka'branda (something like that) daemons slaughtered loads of BA whilst sang is trapped.


_Fear to Tread_ (as in the phrase "Where Angels _fear to tread_") is being written by James Swallow and will be released possibly towards the end of next year or in 2012.



Ultra111 said:


> Is there a book on the Night Lords heresy-era yet? I would love to read that.


No not yet, but the Night Lords will feature in the compilation _Age of Darkness_ in a short story written by ADB entitled _Savage Weapons_.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The war at Calth will undoubtedly be covered in at least a single novel at some point in the future.


Brilliant, I always thought that it deserved a Novel; maybe it can redeem the fairly disapointing book that battle of the abyss was.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> _Fear to Tread_ (as in the phrase "Where Angels _fear to tread_") is being written by James Swallow and will be released possibly towards the end of next year or in 2012.


Great news again 



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> No not yet, but the Night Lords will feature in the compilation _Age of Darkness_ in a short story written by ADB entitled _Savage Weapons_.


aaah ADB, sweet


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> Aye page.335-336 in Fulgrim. He thinks of the warning Eldrad gave him, realising he could end the rebellion before it even begins, has his ships go into attack formation and plot firing solutions. He realises that he actullay want so open fire and looks like he is about to when Eidolon brings him the Laeren sword claiming he requested it brought to him and the moment he equips it the feeling and urge to attack disappear.
> 
> And yeah, totally agree the other Legions need books first, but i just want more at some point, preferably from Abnett again


Fulgrim would not have stood a chance against horus, he would be dead before he hit the ground.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Doesn't matter how tough you are when your ship is exploding all around you


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

raider1987 said:


> Fulgrim would not have stood a chance against horus, he would be dead before he hit the ground.


_Angel of Blood_ was referring to Fulgrim and the 28th Expeditionary Fleet translating into the system where Horus was stationed after Fulgrim's 'meeting' with Eldrad. Fulgrim realises that he could destroy Horus and his fleet there and then and prevent the prophesied (by Eldrad) rebellion from ever occuring, simply by open firing on the Warmaster's fleet (which was fully concentrated on the planet thereby presenting a weakness IIRC). The influence of the Laeran blade prevented Fulgrim from doing so (not that he would have done so without the Laeran Blade anyway, the rebellion being based solely on the words of Eldrad).

As for Fulgrim standing a chance against Horus in combat? Well Fulgrim is noted (alongside the Khan) as a master swordsmen and duelist among the Primarchs. He would have stood a chance and it may not have been as clear cut as you are suggesting.


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

Yeah you are right not as clear cut but in a one on one fight Horus would kill fulgrim. In raven's flight Corax sais that horus is the most powerful primarch in combat, only sanguinius and angron would be any match for him. (or something to that degree)

And at the end of fulgrim, when deamon possessed fulgrim goes to explain the situation to horus, he goes unarmed as he knows horus would kill him if he thought that he posed a threat. 

I don't know maby fulgrim annoyed me too much with his stupidity during fulgrim, but I really can't see him besting horus, even when he became some weird snake thing. 

Horus is the one who made the emperor little more than a corpse nailed to a chair, and that was seconds after killing another incredibly powerful primarch. Granted this was at the end of the heresy when he was bloated with chaos powers and could kill a custodian guard by looking at him, but hes always been a badass.


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## donskar (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:
how did horus turn the other primarchs? 

Let's not give Horus all the credit (blame?). He had a lot of help from Lorgar, Erebus and his like. I don't pretend to have encyclopedic knowledge of the whole HH canon, but IMHO First Heretic opens up whole new vistas of meaning. IMHO Lorgar is the "first heretic" of the title and it is his influence -- and especially Erebus' work that causes several Primarch's to go over to the "dark side"


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