# Predators



## noodles87 (Jan 29, 2008)

so what do you think about them? worth the points or not?

tactics?

discuss :


----------



## warmster4 (Mar 9, 2008)

of course yes, they are relitavely cheap with sponsons and big gun at the top


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I think any predator with heavy bolter sponsons is worth taking.

Autocannon + HB = cheap AP4 anti-infantry dakka.
TL Lascannon + HB = lethal, mobile, anti-tank with the ability to defend itself from troops.
TL Assault Cannon + HB = Win. The Baal predator is easily the most lethal predator varriant, but unfortunately limited to Blood Angels only

As a rule I avoid lascannon sponsons. They turn the tank from a mobile fire-beast into a stationary pillbox, and marine tanks just haven't got the AV for that. If you move the tank at all then suddenly you;re wasting the points you spent on those things.


----------



## Fenrakk101 (Feb 23, 2008)

A Chaos Predator is deadly. Both weapons have a 48" range, and that is always bound to be able to hit an enemy unless it is behind barricades. The HBs also have good range, and it is likely that a Predator can kill an enemy before it even knows what the damn thing was. Sponson-mounted lascannons are worthless because the tank won't stand a chance against anti-tank infantry, and 2 infantry squads are required in a match, so lascannons on the sides are worthless, and no sponson-mounted weapons is also as bad.


----------



## Janus Blackheart (Jan 24, 2008)

The Pred is very versatile and highly effective. A steal as far as points are concerned and top notch front armour. It should be equiped based on how your army plays. Side sponsons should always be taken otherwise a weapon destroyed result will render it useless. The twin linked las and heavy bolters is well rounded. The autocannon and Hvy bolters is great for troops and light armour. The All las pred is good if your army stands and shoots and you can put it in a good hull down position. 

And yes I am very envious of the Baal.


----------



## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

I havnt fielded a All-Las-Predator in ages, i Play aggressive Chaos, and that Pred has a slow role, of anti Infantry. There is no other model which dishes out as much firepower as him.

And if you loose it, its just 100 pts..it tends to soak up a dedcent amount of fire too..

The All las version is just to expensive...rather get a dread with Multi, or Obliterator for anti vehicle


----------



## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Personally I think that it's always worth having the twin lascannon turret. I think that twin lascannon and heavy bolter sponsons is the perfect weapon fit. I've often fielded 3 of these as my heavy support section.

Compared with the autocannon turret you are going from 8 shots to 7 with one twin linked, which produces a very similar effect on hordes. On the other hand the advantages of the lascannon against tougher targets are enormous.

It's true that there are other units that you can buy to beat up tanks. Personally I like it if as many of my units as possible are a threat to the big stuff. That way I can still fight effectively if I get bad reserve rolls in escalation, or something like that.

Baal preds are ok but I don't think you can rely on them in the same way as the lascannon turret version. Too often, I have seen these come on from reserve and be out of range to fire their assault cannons at anything. I place a lot of value on whether a tank can do something decisive on the turn it arrives and every turn after that.

The major weakness of predators is their side armour. This makes them have to lurk in corners a lot of the time and causes them many problems if they have to advance or turn to face an enemy. When fighting against predators I have often been able to hit them in the side with railguns from very long ranges, which gives me an automatic penetrating hit.


----------



## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

I find that Predators are very much worth the points, even the all LC variant. While Oblits are admittedly better for the role of tank killing, points to effect, the lc/hb sponson Predator is top notch for taking out infantry.


----------



## Estragon (Feb 25, 2008)

The prospect of an all-las predator just seems a bit odd frankly. For my Chaos army it ends up costing 165 points, without the near mandatory havoc missile and EA or DP. Although that in itself isn't too salty, the idea that they can all disappear in one shot is a little worrying. A decent flanking manouver would have it torn to shreds, especially against fast vehicles. Added to that the 'one main weapon' rule and you've got a fairly-static, fairly-expensive, fairly-vulnerable firebase. If you want to include lascannons the turret TL one is, for me at least, the most appealing. Against infantry I can kit out a dedicated A-I pred for 115 points that spits out:
6 S5 Ap4 shots
2 S7 Ap4 shots, TL
And a small blast of S5 Ap5, TL
I could see that earning it's points back in one shooting round against pretty much any non-power armour unit, at a distance of 36". Worth it? Definately.


----------



## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

good all round tank


----------



## Sieg (Dec 3, 2007)

I run a marine army with 3 Dreds with assault cannons and CCW with Hvy flamer so i do use the all LC version. I feel that it works well for what it needs to do and usually makes up for its points within the first two turns.


----------



## noodles87 (Jan 29, 2008)

Sieg said:


> I run a marine army with 3 Dreds with assault cannons and CCW with Hvy flamer so i do use the all LC version. I feel that it works well for what it needs to do and usually makes up for its points within the first two turns.



my thoughts exactly sieg, i take the all las pred and (concidering my main opponent loves tanks) always pays off wihthin turn 1 / 2 :fuck: take that black templars!!!


----------



## Sieg (Dec 3, 2007)

my main opponent plays Nidzillas so i need the extra las shots to take down the fex and tyrants quickly. 2 all las preds usually do the job quickly and effectively with a little back up from my other stuff.


----------



## Shamrok (Feb 14, 2008)

Plain and simple its a good solid tank in my (limited) experience, and the Baal is amazing for softening up the enemy before an assault.


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Any reason why nobody goes for a turret autocannon and sponsun lascannons?

Seems a good all round tank hunter to me but can also be anti heavy infantry


----------



## Absolute035 (Jan 13, 2008)

Estragon said:


> The prospect of an all-las predator just seems a bit odd frankly. For my Chaos army it ends up costing 165 points, without the near mandatory havoc missile and EA or DP. Although that in itself isn't too salty, the idea that they can all disappear in one shot is a little worrying. A decent flanking manouver would have it torn to shreds, especially against fast vehicles. Added to that the 'one main weapon' rule and you've got a fairly-static, fairly-expensive, fairly-vulnerable firebase. If you want to include lascannons the turret TL one is, for me at least, the most appealing. Against infantry I can kit out a dedicated A-I pred for 115 points that spits out:
> 6 S5 Ap4 shots
> 2 S7 Ap4 shots, TL
> And a small blast of S5 Ap5, TL
> I could see that earning it's points back in one shooting round against pretty much any non-power armour unit, at a distance of 36". Worth it? Definately.


I feel that is the best roll of the predator, it's a lot of shots and at 115 points doesn't hurt too bad to lose. the las sponsons limit mobility and that's the last thing you need when you're trying to protect your 11 side armor.

Just to note, the autocannon is not specified as twin linked in the codex


----------



## Maxwell256 (Mar 15, 2008)

In order to take full advantage of the three lascannons, the tank has to stationary. I would prefer to keep my armor moving. That is why I prefer the two heavy bolts

MaxWell


----------



## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

With the rumour that defensive weapon strength will drop to 4 in 5th edition I think that heavy bolter sponsons will probably be on the way out. A stationary anti-infantry predator will probably be a bad choice since you can achieve the same result with scoring infantry.

Lascannon preds may remain useful. It does give you three lascannons for a relatively economical price and can fire on the move if it needs to.

Baal predators are interesting in that, thanks to their engines, they may be able to move and fire a bit. They still suffer quite a lot though.

I think that there will be some who go for razorbacks with twin lascannons instead of predators. You can get about two razorbacks per predator with the newest points values and they can move troops around. They don't suffer from the defensive weapon change because they don't have sponsons anyway. They also give away one kill point instead of two. I might test this a bit.


----------



## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

Someguys right, new razorback with TL lascannons are under half the cost of a 3 las predator, don't take any FOC places, can transport, move and fire to full effect, there's two of them, and in fact will probably need them AND their squad killed to give away one point. In-fact they make your troops harder to get points from, as well as not giving any extra.


----------



## Maximus (Mar 9, 2008)

From the point of view a non-marine player has, I would say that all Predators have a big red target painted on them, especially if they have lascannons. Las-Preds and devastator squads with lascannons are mostly the first two targets to eat fire from my anti-Tank squad oder infiltrating storm troopers with meltaguns.

The good front AV means that the opponent has to use the big guns (S8+ or lances) for them, but if he flanks you, the predator is toast. In a 1000 point game it may be a bit expensive to loose them.


----------



## Gore Hunter (Nov 5, 2007)

They are great if you want to make sure an enemy vehicle should die.


----------



## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

Absolute035 said:


> Just to note, the autocannon is not specified as twin linked in the codex


I thought it was a Reaper auto-cannon, which is twin-linked. That makes it more sucky if it's not.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Shamrok said:


> ...and the Baal is amazing for softening up the enemy before an assault.


So true. I personally run three Baal Predators in games of 1700 or more. They're invaluable for thinning out the enemy ranks to ensure that your assault rips the beating heart out of the enemy army.

I also have a healthy respect for the twin-linked lascannon and heavy bolter variant, as well as the autocannon/lascannon sponson one. But nothing matches up to the Baal Predator. Take that non BA players! :fuck:


----------



## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

yes, because not only are they cheap there a bullet magnet


----------



## Trigger (Mar 12, 2008)

Razorbacks are under half the points for a reason :-Armour 11 is pathetic. Twin Las and HB for me, although I think the autocannon model looks better


----------



## Ljohnson (Apr 14, 2008)

I love them. I use all the varients available to my army. I've got 6 of them. The only one a cann't use is the BAAL. The all lascannon versions are good also. That does get a little pricey though. If you take one or two they get ignored because of the landraider you've got plodding around the field.


----------



## Moschaboy (Jan 5, 2007)

since the new chaos codex came out, there are only 2 predator options left for me. the lascannon/heavy bolter one and the autocannon/heavy bolter/havoc missle launcher one. the other variants are way to pricey for their mobile firepower and their survivability. if i want moving lascannons (all las pred), i take 3 obliterators. if i want to have cheaper anti tank (auto/las pred), i take 2 obliterators.


----------



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

I always take a 3 LC Pred.

One three LC pred sits at the back blasting whilst the other two HB preds get involved more.

It usually works really well for me.


----------



## Ludoldus (Apr 8, 2008)

Aye, i take a 3 las pred and its great because it's 1: a major bullet sponge and 2: its handy for when something really has to die (i.e. Land raider full of terminators)

Plus, i dont really need anti-infantry, as 20 man crusader squads on the charge seem to manage well enough


----------



## julio d (Apr 20, 2008)

Ludoldus said:


> Aye, i take a 3 las pred and its great because it's 1: a major bullet sponge and 2: its handy for when something really has to die (i.e. Land raider full of terminators)
> 
> Plus, i dont really need anti-infantry, as 20 man crusader squads on the charge seem to manage well enough


HAHAH SO TRUE! haha i was playin against ORKS with my Trilas
Turn 1: Kills the Big Battlewagon on the Table
Turn2: Vapourizes a squad of 3 Kans!
Turn2: Kills one of his looted tanks

3 Lascannons all the way save the full autos for infantry and LRCs


----------



## Estragon (Feb 25, 2008)

Julio, whereever the hell you are, can I fly you in to roll my dice for me? This from a guy who has rolled double '1's for AP with a melta.....:grin:
Agreed with the comments about the new Ed. HB preds are going to wander off somewhere else if you can only fire one weapon if you move. At all. Same for razorbacks: do you want a tank that can move 6" a squad that can on their own move up to 12" by running?


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

When I use a predator, I don't pay for sponsons, I find the extra points can be spent on more plague marines. Iusually do'nt get much out of the sponsons, as they have a habit of being either innapropriate for targets that present themselves, or targets don't present themselves. predators are valuable for more than cost-effectiveness, they are a good way to provide mobile fire support, especially if you ad a havoc launcher, which I have found to be more effective than the sponsons.


----------

