# Those 'Nids know something...



## Kaithan (Aug 20, 2009)

According to the fluff, when the Tyranids first came they left a few planets totally intact, in fact, they kept a really wide distance from them. As later surveillance results proved, they were Tomb Worlds.

So...
I would be curious, how the heck the Tyranids knew that Necrons are sleeping beneath the rocks ? Perhaps they knew something about the Necrons from previous times ? I haven't found anything related to this thing, not even the Tyranid and Necron Codex.

And another thing: I would wonder what would happen if a Tyranid Fleet would somehow disturb the aeon long sleep of the necrons and the two swarms would clash ? It seems the 'Nids somehow fear the Necrons or at least don't want to trifle with a foe that can really harm them ^^

Ideas ?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Biomass (or lack thereof), or the idea that the Tyranids are leaving their own galaxy, because of the Necron Red Harvest.

Nothing can be gained from fighting such a foe. You can't eat metal (or you can try, but if I see a Living Metal Harridan/Trygon, I'm gonna scream.


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## jams (Sep 19, 2009)

that's a very interesting point. i've never really thought about it before, but perhaps the nids do have some sort of feeling of self preservation :biggrin:


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Nah, I think it's pretty widely accepted that the Necro Tomb Worlds are void of all life or anything supporting of life. The whole point is that they don't want to be disturbed. 

'Nids want air, water, and biomass to consume. Naturally completely dead worlds would have nothing they want.


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

Supposedly the Tyranids navigate via the warp calls of genestealers and the "flow and ebb of the warp" These tomb worlds would be utterly devoid of any warp presence as well as any biomass. Necrons are the only other race known to possess the pariah gene which they cultivate, No warp presence, no biomass presense, might as well be invisible to the nids.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

i think that it is simply that they can tell that they are there and don't see the point in disturbing them. the machines have nothing they want.


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## WannabeKurt (Jan 19, 2008)

I think the point was that, in some cases at least, they aren't just not attacking; the entire hive fleets MOVE FAR AWAY from the planets in question.


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## darthkilzone (Sep 22, 2009)

Its the will be back rules:biggrin:but really maybe its kinda like animal instinct or they didnt pick up the reading of living beings because of some sort of necron effect:shok:


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

They bypassed the outsider's Dydon sphere because even in its weakened, demented state, it could still eat them. The C'tan consume stars - the necrons only harvest particular materials. 

Tomb worlds are dead worlds. There is no life, and the necrons, if they are there, are behind stasis fields, where they are perfectly safe. Nothing gets out of a stasis field - even if you had a fully functioning viable biomass-rich civilisation there, the 'nids wouldn't see it.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

WannabeKurt said:


> I think the point was that, in some cases at least, they aren't just not attacking; the entire hive fleets MOVE FAR AWAY from the planets in question.


Psychic signatures in the warp maybe? Remember the stories that the soulless nature of Pariahs and similar really hurts those with a connection to the warp, like psykers and so on. It might not be the pariahs, but something else the necrons have that leaves a big black spot on the warp. Something so that they can't be felt, and possibly the reason why the tomb worlds weren't discovered or explored for so long? The hive mind runs on psychic communication between it's troops, and probably keenly any disturbances like this. So maybe between that and the fact that there is no advantage to be had attacking a lifeless world causes them to avoid the tombworlds.


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## ironhammer (Aug 14, 2008)

WannabeKurt said:


> I think the point was that, in some cases at least, they aren't just not attacking; the entire hive fleets MOVE FAR AWAY from the planets in question.


you know it's possible that there is something else, has it ever been considered that whatever frequency or means the necron lords have to communicate with their warriors or operation signal causes some sort of irritation to tyranids and avoid it for that reason.

and here is another possibility, maybe it is chance that the tomb worlds are avoided, if you actually look at the flow of the tyranid fleets they are not exactly methodical, i would even say sloppy, the tendrils twist and curve in ways that destroy some worlds and bypass others, their looking for food, not genocide, so maybe it is just dumb luck the tyranids haven't hit a tomb world yet as not all tomb worlds are void of life.


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## Kaithan (Aug 20, 2009)

Still I don't know about any record in the history of 40k that a Hive Fleet would come in contact with a Necron army. At least there was no sentient being to record it xD
Still I'm puzzled that these two swarms haven't clashed even once. Even more surprising, since the Hive Fleets are stretched into deeper Imperial/Tau/Eldar ect. space.

About the dead world part:
In the Daw of War: Rising book a whole ecosystem is thriving above the sleeping Necrons with a Fortress Monostary of the blood Ravens + the native, but a bit barbarian people there. Ok, I admit that there is an Eldar device that mimics an effect that no eldar is nearby or living at all. But humans still live on that planet. The Ravens get fresh troops from that planet ^^ or at least they did xD ---> Drawback of the Exterminatus


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## Le Sinistre (May 9, 2008)

Kaithan, forget the Dawn of War books... They shouldn't be read as true fluff...


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## Kaithan (Aug 20, 2009)

Le Sinistre said:


> Kaithan, forget the Dawn of War books... They shouldn't be read as true fluff...


Didn't notice that the DoW books are not considered true fluff ^^;
At least good to know xD

Aside of that it is still an interesting question for me that what would happen fluff-vise if a necron and a Tyranid army would fight ? Since they are (to some degree) each one's anti-thesis xD
One is a biological mass that want to evolve by consuming life
The other is a mechanical army that despise all life and try to eradicate it in all levels.

In the end though both leave barren worlds behind them. Though I guess a Tyranid Fleet is doing this on a much bigger scale XD


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## Le Sinistre (May 9, 2008)

Not so sure.  Since necrons (especially the necron gods) would suck every little energy, I would say, the red harvest would leave the world and it's nearby star powerless. This is more, than the nids can do. And if the two races would clash... Good question. It could be, that the nids would lost controll, since the hive mind controlls could be destroyed from the necrons. And the animal instinct of the nids would come out. Who nows, what would happen then...


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## Sytus (Aug 27, 2009)

Perhaps the necrons create some slight nullification of psykers or other psychic powers e.g. the hive fleet.
This may be the reason they avoid them.
Also, the Ctan may be more widespread than we know.There may be beings of a Ctan nature in one of the "other" galaxies.The nids may have encountered them before,and may count them as a serious threat.


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## ironhammer (Aug 14, 2008)

or as i also said maybe the necrons electronics cause the nids some kind of irritation and act as a repellent, like how some electrical signals repel/attract insects in the real world.


and what in the necron arsenel can eliminate the hive mind? i know of no psychic hood equivalent in the necron army; besides the hive mind (hive thought would be a more accurate term in my opinion) is too vast and complex to just be "neutralized" how do you silence a million minds all at once?


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## Kaithan (Aug 20, 2009)

ironhammer said:


> or as i also said maybe the necrons electronics cause the nids some kind of irritation and act as a repellent, like how some electrical signals repel/attract insects in the real world.
> 
> 
> and what in the necron arsenel can eliminate the hive mind? i know of no psychic hood equivalent in the necron army; besides the hive mind (hive thought would be a more accurate term in my opinion) is too vast and complex to just be "neutralized" how do you silence a million minds all at once?


you forget about the Phariah gene ^^
It actually nullify psichic ability of any sort. Humans have this gene also but on a much lesser scale. Psychers fear phariahs since they can't use any kind of psy related stuff  hence why the Eldar hate necrons lol XD

I guess it would disrupt the synapse ---> tyranid gaunts and a like roam around aimlessly XD would be an interesting sight to behold xD (especially in the case of a carnifex XD)


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## killmaimburn (Mar 19, 2008)

Fear of a pariah is not simply a logical, concious fear of being vulnerable. In the presence of a pariah you will feel physically nauseaus and repelled by the pariah, and if you are a psyker, depending on your degree of power, remaining in close proximity to the pariah (even a human "blank") could be physically painful.

I think that the tyranids bypass the tombworlds simply from lack of incentive to attack. Also, there is some speculation that the outsider is the actual hive mind,


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## ironhammer (Aug 14, 2008)

necrons don't have a pariah gene, necrons don't have any genes, their metal and circuitry built in the image an extinct race. Besides eldar hate necrons because necrons are the enemies of all life, and because the old ones made the eldar for the explicit purpose of fighting the necrons which is also why they made the orks.


also i think you people might have your terms mixed up because i remember someone on this thread mentioning that tau have this gene, tau don't neutralize psychic energy, they just don't have any warp presence or psychic ability of any kind, which is unusual but doesn't affect surrounding psychers, necron wouldn't have a warp presence either but that is because they are not alive. "blanks" or "untouchables" do exist and are studied to great detail, commissar cain's aid was a blank after all, but the necron and tau do not share this ability as it still requires a warp presence (a negative presence like a psychic black hole but a presence nevertheless).


Also i have said this so many times before, do not take the term "hive mind" literally, there is no actual single conscience moving the hive fleets, its all the collective minds of all the bugs in the hive fleet thinking as a unified whole, creating the appearance of a single mind when in fact it is the culmination of thousands.


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## Skye (Oct 22, 2008)

The total avoidance of Necron planets is strange...I thought so when I read it too. Possibly, the giant "bubble" of null and anti-psyche creates great pain to the hive mind. Dead worlds obviously wouldn't attract Tyranids, but it wouldn't cause them to avoid the worlds completely. The entire hive is run through a psychic command structure, so avoiding psychic abominations is reasonable (even to the animalistic bugs )

Edit: One line of the Necron Codex bothers me...
When they describe the Pariahs, they metion something along the lines of them "being the only Necrons created through Necron machinary and human evolution" 
I always took this to mean they are kinda like cyborgs or something, allowing them to have the Pariah gene. :/


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## Kaithan (Aug 20, 2009)

Skye said:


> Edit: One line of the Necron Codex bothers me...
> When they describe the Pariahs, they metion something along the lines of them "being the only Necrons created through Necron machinary and human evolution"
> I always took this to mean they are kinda like cyborgs or something, allowing them to have the Pariah gene. :/


Well if you read the Phariahs you will see a sentence about that these creatures are the next step of necron "evolution". As far as I know, Necrons can make humans into phariah if they possess the Phariag-gene. At least the text implies that the C'tan is planning to make a next step to evolve their minions while using up the useful speciments of the Human race.
Kinda creepy if you ask me oO

And there is the story in the Necron Codex about the Callidus assassin, who want to kill a high rank man (I think a planer goverener ?) since he turned to heresy. But actually it turns out to be a Necron Phariah xD Though it is interesting that they can speak oO I always thought that Necrons don't really speak. Or they don't waste time with speaking XD

At least finally somebody who was bothered by that fact that was mentioned in the Tyranid Codex ^^
I was thinking about the same line, but I was curious about other opinions :3


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Kaithan said:


> And there is the story in the Necron Codex about the Callidus assassin, who want to kill a high rank man (I think a planer goverener ?) since he turned to heresy. But actually it turns out to be a Necron Phariah xD Though it is interesting that they can speak oO I always thought that Necrons don't really speak. Or they don't waste time with speaking XD


The governor in that story is the Deceiver. c`tan are immune to phase weapons, but a mere pariah would not be. 
These observations about the nids deliberately avoiding tomb worlds support my theroy; The hive mind is composed of the remnants of the old ones, having fled the galaxy after the war in heaven was lost, creating the perfect warrior race and integrating themselves with it, then returning when the time was right to absorb all life in the galaxy, thus neutralising the threat of chaos and gaining enough power, through a truly unified galaxy, to utterly annihilate the c`tan. If any stand a chance, it would be the tyranids.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

And yes, pariahs are indeed cyborgs. They need to be, to make use of the pariah gene which emits negative warp energy. Hence they cannot self repair. If you zoom in on them in Dark Crusade, you can see parts of their skull!


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I think it has got a lot to do with the 'warp shadow' a world creates. We know that living things have, for want of a better word, souls, sparks in the warp. A world with a lot of life, especially sentient life, would show as quite a bright light to a species that could see it. This would mean that Tyranids are able to zero-in on worlds with vast amounts of biomass through psychic means.
Many Necron tombworlds are barren and lifeless, although not all of them. Necrons are also, as has already been pointed out, anti-warp (sort of) and so a highly psychic group would want to avoid them, certainly if there are more attractive targets nearby, galactically speaking. So we get left with Necron tombworlds not showing in the warp as brightly as the life-filled worlds that surround them, and the psychic 'Nids being put-off by the 'anti-warp-ness' of the 'Crons.
With the Dyson Sphere; if it is completely artificial, to the point that everything is a machine, then it wouldn't register to the 'Nids psychic senses. The greatly magnified 'anti-warp' nature of the 'Crons and possible C'tan lurking inside would be a bigger spur to not just float on by and ignore it, but rather to take a proper detour and munch on some more attractive worlds that just happen to a long, long way away from the dirty Necrons.

GFP


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

There is a story in the new nid codex about the nids and necrons clashing, the necrons completely slaughtered the nids and then go on to slaughter a tonne of tau

It may simply be that the nids are aware of necrons and based on some previous experience are simply avoiding them as they are scared of them.

Tyranids are intelligent predators, you don't prey on things that can easily kill you when there no potential gain


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Im very possitive the new Nid Dex or Taus have a story where the Tau are fighting the Nids. They're losing. Necrons show up and Kill Nids. Etherial goes up to Nec lord and says "hey thanks". Nec Lord stabs his ass and kills the remaining Tau. First Tau and Necron meeting. So this story should prove that Necs can still sneak up on nid Fleets, but most Tomb Worlds are Devoid of life, very few have life.


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

interesting topic and interesting ideas k:

but there was a fluff theory (which i rather like), we all know that the Outsider (c'tan) left the 40k galaxy, but the theory goes that the Outsider left the galaxy to create his own race to harvest everything, which are the tyranids. So the plan would go like this:

1. Outsider makes the tyranids
2. Tyranids eat everthing in galaxies
3. When everything was consumed, Tyranids start to eat each other
4. The last surviving Tyranid is really huge and contains so much biomass/life energy (as he ate all other tyranids) and is eaten by the Outsider, making him practically immortal

now i cant tell you how a anti-warp god made a race that becomes warpish:threaten:, but evidence behind this theory is that the c'tan are extremely vulnerable to the warp and psycic powers, so the tyranid fleets and hive minds would easy defeat the c'tan (which were also in weakend state) but they chose not to. If i am also correct, the Outsiders dyson ball was the first planet to be avoided by the Tyranid fleets, now this may be due to the fact that the planet was screwed up or because they were afraid and intimidated by their master....:biggrin:


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## Tel Asra Nejoar (Mar 16, 2010)

a lot of tombworlds do have life, Pavonis(which had the tomb of the nightbringer under it), Damnos, mars, and many more.even if the world is dead, the nids still absorb some of the minerals in the rocks, as theses are used for reinforcing armour plates/repairing hiveships etc, so deadworlds are attacked, just not referenced as noone is there to report. so i doubt its the "scoured of life thing". Also i think that if they emmited a field of somesort the imperium/eldar/tau would have figured out how to trace it(especially the Eldar, who are trying to prevent the awakening). And necrons arent pariahs, they arent nulls, they just have no access to the warp, they manipulated human genestock to create pariahs, which took millenia, would they have done it if their race were all nulls? seems like a lot of energy expended to get where you began. and if the necrons were nulls, why dont people who come into contact with them exibit the same reactions as they do around nulls? because they are not is my belief. as to why they avoid them, perhaps its as simple as getting the resources from the tombworlds would require more energy expended than they would get out.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Ferrus Manus said:


> interesting topic and interesting ideas k:
> 
> but there was a fluff theory (which i rather like), we all know that the Outsider (c'tan) left the 40k galaxy, but the theory goes that the Outsider left the galaxy to create his own race to harvest everything, which are the tyranids. So the plan would go like this:
> 
> ...


Where is this source of information that suggets the Outsider left this Galaxy?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

The necrons were never nulls. They are like the tau in this regard. I read somewhere that a certain gene is required to make a psychically sensivive race such as humans or eldar which is positive to the warp. Then there is the pariah gene, having the exact opposite effect of being negative to the warp. The tau have neither effect. It is said that they register extremely faintly, but they possess no psykers. I imagine the necrontyr would have been much the same. Not psyker, not anti-psyker, simply indifferent. Thus reliant on technology to thrive, again, much like the tau...


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm not sure which book this is. It could be the 'Cron 'dex, or even Xenology; the fluff says that the C'tan were vulnerable to warp-based powers, as were their followers. This is why the Old Ones made races that had a warp connection such as the Eldar, Humans and even the Orcs.
Whilst the Necrons are not Pariahs, they are certainly a race that is the very antithesis of the warp and the Old Ones; the greatest achievement of the C'tan would be to seperate the materium from the warp, elimanating their one real weakness (isn't this what they wanted to do to Medusa V?). So, whilst their isn't a null type of effect that would make the 'Nids paychic senses go haywire, there is probably some sort of warp damping effect that spreads out into the space around, maybe looking like some sort of dead/calm spot in the warp when a psycher lookes at it.

GFP


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## Tel Asra Nejoar (Mar 16, 2010)

^^^ if this were the case(tombworlds being calmer in the warp), then the other races would have picked up on it, like the eldar, who want to stop the awakening. this is something 'nid specific, and anything the nids can sense in the warp, id think the eldar could too(being all-but masters of it), or largescale daemonic assaults on these worlds(cant see the ruinous powers liking calm areas in their chaos). for me, it doesnt add up.


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> Where is this source of information that suggets the Outsider left this Galaxy?


Necron Codex: page 5- line 15- "That which lies outside will be drawn to the harvest" 

 Page 58- 16th paragraph/speech- "The one who lives Beyond, The lord of Insanity..."


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## BucketKnight (Mar 27, 2010)

I love Serpion's theory.

But on a simpler note I can agree with the idea that Tyranids just don't find enough edible matter on the (mostly) dead Tomb worlds.

If we consider the Hive Mind to be a singleminded primitive space organism it stands to reason that it has some kind of 'animal instinct'. Similar to most animals getting nervous when a storm is coming? Perhaps the Hive Mind 'knows' that Tomb worlds are bad wihtout actually having been taught.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Ferrus Manus said:


> Necron Codex: page 5- line 15- "That which lies outside will be drawn to the harvest"
> 
> Page 58- 16th paragraph/speech- "The one who lives Beyond, The lord of Insanity..."


Both of those are just referring to the Outsider not that he left the Galaxy, you're making a leap here even for you.


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## AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH (Apr 17, 2009)

I'm quite sure that being in the Dyson Sphere is like being outside of the galaxy. And the reason why he's called the Outsider.
But it's a complicated matter. The sphere is indeed in the galaxy, but the inside of it isn't. Kinda like a stasis field existing outside of time. 
At least, that's how i've been informed.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

every planet necrons are on are dead worlds? i dont think dead worlds and tomb worlds are interchangeable terms in this case.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Not every Necron world is a dead world. Some became dead, some already were and some survive because of races like humans setting up colonies or outposts. Of course, in such cases, it`s only a matter of time...


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

okay im a noobie. who/what is the OUTSIDER?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

High_Seraph said:


> okay im a noobie. who/what is the OUTSIDER?


One of the four known remaining C'tan. Although we have next-to-no information about him.


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## Sytus (Aug 27, 2009)

What we _can_ tell is that it is some kind of "Lord of Madness" which was driven insane by the consumption of other C'Tan.


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## jamierobinson94 (Jun 20, 2009)

I don't know if this has been brought up at all but since the tyranids are a psychically linked race could it be possible the necrons disrupt the Tyranids connection to the Hive mind?
Also I think its just general knowledge that Psykers just find the necrons more unnerving than a regular person would I don't know if its considers Canon but in dark crusade Eliphas the Inheritor is visibly shaken when attempting to communicate with the Necron Lord Telepathically.


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## Peakey95 (Mar 30, 2009)

mind = BLOWN :L :L


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Eliphas reaches out to commune with the lord, to instill fear in his soul. The necron`s response (unintellible) causes unease in the chaos lord. Because there is no soul.

I love how even a chaos lord can feel fear from a necron. If the rules matched the fluff, the evil deathbots would be harder than space marines, even those damn red pretty ones.


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