# Space Wolf Rumours - Updated 04.02.09



## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Lots of rumours about the Space Wolves, particularly as it appears there's a collectors Space Wolf model on the horizon, FAQ updates to Dark Angels etc, and Harry at Warseer suggesting the Wolves might follow the IG sometime in 2009. 

I've also got this tidbit from an anonymous source; usual caveats apply!



> - Looking likely to follow IG. All the D/BA players that moaned about the new Marine Codex... they've not seen anything when SW is released!
> - New sprue mock up & drawing look ace from what I been told, new sprue will be like the Dark Angels in term of more bits, also the possible of plastic Space Wolves scouts





Vaz said:


> Rumours - Having talked to one of the guys at the LGS, (GW Pompey) there are stories (with him having recently been talking to Phil Kelly, and several of the Dev Team, he didn't explain why) of the Fenrisian Wolves becoming an option for Space Wolf Armies (I'd assume either a Fast Attack Choice, or a non-FOC selection similar to CSM daemons), with Mediocre stats, but Furious Charge, or similar.
> 
> Wishful Thinking - Pretty popular rumour as well (no source as yet, but ask any Space Wolf player from before the Eye of Terror Campaign), is that the Wulfen are going to be allowed to be taken as a Unique choice, similar to the Legion of the Damned.
> 
> ...


---

Any updates for the Wolves in here. PMs welcome for anonymous information. Please don't wishlist! I'll mark confirmations in green *mmm green!*


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

New wolves, I wonder if it's worth buying up some grey hunter and blood claw box's before the price goes up?


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## cyberpunk (Aug 4, 2008)

fighting with a 3rd ed army vs a 5th ed army is what we do... hope Russ hears our prayers and GW releases a new codex soon.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

cyberpunk said:


> fighting with a 3rd ed army vs a 5th ed army is what we do... hope Russ hears our prayers and GW releases a new codex soon.


You should just play vs the other 3rd ed. armies out there like DE and Necrons.


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

Another SM update, just what we needed....


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

Well, since SW are the only marines not updated to at least 4th ed, it is kinda expected. hope its a great codex.


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## Mivarlocht (Jan 26, 2009)

Going to have to relay this info to my SW-playing friend. Thanks!


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

JokerGod said:


> Another SM update, just what we needed....


So what is needed? A Necron update? A Dark Eldar Update? Space Wolves are 3rd edition. So are the others... It seems that the Dark Eldar are MUCH more important than any of the others... Or is the Necrons who NEED to be updated?

But why not the Space Wolves? Because they're Space Marines, by right of that, they SHOULDN'T be updated...

I can't see why Space Wolves shouldn't be updated. Unless, of course, you follow the childish whine of "It's unfair, they got it before me..."

Why the fuck don't you complain over the Guard? I mean, they've got a more recent codex. But there are no complaints here. Space Wolves, Space Marines. Games Workshops Poster Boys. I know, let's be cool. Let's be quasi-anarchistic. Yeah, let's all jump on the band wagon.

To pretty much everyone complaining over Marines - Get the fuck off your high horse, and make a point that has some real value behind. I'm not telling people what to say, but when you get asinine, fucked up comments over the downright hatred over Space Marines "Oh look, they get all the new toys, Boohoohoo", "Oh look, _more_ marines...", when, really, they are baseless, and really pointless, it's both funny and aggravating. I don't know whether to pity you, or laugh at you, so I'll settle for both.

The rest are rumours/wishful thinking.

Rumours - Having talked to one of the guys at the LGS, (GW Pompey) there are stories (with him having recently been talking to Phil Kelly, and several of the Dev Team, he didn't explain why) of the Fenrisian Wolves becoming an option for Space Wolf Armies (I'd assume either a Fast Attack Choice, or a non-FOC selection similar to CSM daemons), with Mediocre stats, but Furious Charge, or similar.

Wishful Thinking - Pretty popular rumour as well (no source as yet, but ask any Space Wolf player from before the Eye of Terror Campaign), is that the Wulfen are going to be allowed to be taken as a Unique choice, similar to the Legion of the Damned.

Special Characters include Logan Grimnar (stats brought into line with Chapter Master, Orbital Bombardment), Bjorn the Fellhanded, Ragnar Blackmane, and the old Wolf Priest I can't remember the name of. Wolf Lords take the role of Captains, no more Battle Leaders. Frost Blades become Relic Blades. True Grit is removed, but Grey Hunters gain 2 Attacks, Points Cost increase (might get Heavy Weapons). Wolf Guards can be taken as either Terminator Squads, or Veterans.

Blood Claws (Power Armoured SM Scouts, BP/CCW, Power Weapon/Fist upgrades as before) can be taken as either Troops, or if taken as Fast Attack, must take Bikes, or Jump Packs.

Iron Priests become elites, can take Servitor Retinues.

Leman Russ Annhilators removed. Crusaders and Redeemers added. Distrust of new technology suggests that the Thunderfire is not added. Scouts (no longer 0-1) stay as elite, but can take Bikes. Gain Cluster Mines, Sniper Rifles, WS/BS4, Meltabombs, Power Weapons, Locator Beacons.

Not sure over Drop Podding, or Teleporting. They make use of them, but not too keen on it. I'd imagine that they gain Preferred Enemy vs. Thousand Sons/Troops with MoT, or lose it entirely. Maybe the same for Dark Angels.

I'd also think that the Rune Priests get access to Storm Caller, and all of the new Psychic Powers. Wulfen Rune Priests may be limited to "The Gate".

That's all I can think of that's been discussed.


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

SW and DA should not have there own Codex what so ever. It should have all bin covered in the SM codex By braking them up all GW is doing is pissing off people that don't play SM because then every one els has to wait even longer for there Army to get a much needed update. I will admit my last comment was short how ever it still stands, SM do not need any more updates what so ever, they have gotten enough and GW needs to focus more on the other armys so they can get updated in to 5th and become competitive.

Guard need and update so they don't get crushed by every power list out there, some as DE and Necrons. SW should be solved with an Errata saying "refer to Codex: SM" 

And for point, the only reason SM are the "flag ship" is because they get updates twice as often and are always getting the "New toys" as you put it instead of GW putting some work in to other armys that need it more then them.

And I apologize if the fact that I think of the players more then GWs bank account, but there is no reason to have 3 SM codex books out when they only need one.


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## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

I see no problems at all with a Space Wolf update before others. I'm sure it's cheaper and quicker for GW to update the SW than Necrons and Dark Eldar are who both need models _and_ codex updates badly - and the Space Wolves are equally as old. Certainly in this financial climate it makes perfect business sense to update an army that will sell well and was easier to update; regardless if you agree with it or not.

In any case, Necrons and Dark Eldar are on the horizon so I really do not see the issue here.


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

I get a bit tired of the SM spam sometimes but i cant begrudge SW an update no way no how. /me hides his 8 pointed thingamagigy......"For Russ!"


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

JokerGod said:


> SW and DA should not have there own Codex what so ever. It should have all bin covered in the SM codex By braking them up all GW is doing is pissing off people that don't play SM because then every one els has to wait even longer for there Army to get a much needed update. I will admit my last comment was short how ever it still stands, SM do not need any more updates what so ever, they have gotten enough and GW needs to focus more on the other armys so they can get updated in to 5th and become competitive.
> 
> Guard need and update so they don't get crushed by every power list out there, some as DE and Necrons. SW should be solved with an Errata saying "refer to Codex: SM"
> 
> ...


You mean like that way, there should only be one Marine Force. After all, they are only Marines, whether they worship the Chaos Gods or the Emperor. Or the Dark Eldar for that matter? I mean, they're still the same race, put them all in together. Oooh yeah, Raiders with Dark Reapers, shivers baby, shivers.

For Space Marines being the Flagship, yes, they are the flagship, no, they're not the flagship, because they get the new toys. They are the flagship, because they are pretty much unique to Warhammer. Tau, yes, they're pretty much unique, but they aren't as long term as Marines have been.

As for Marines getting new toys? Space Wolves are Space Marines. They use the same stuff that Marines get. Few new toys, past a conversion kit, maybe a new set of metal's for Special Characters, etc. 

And really? You're thinking of the players? What about those who prefer the originality that a new codex has? If the World Eaters got their own codex, I'd be happy. Very happy. Same for each craftworld for the Eldar. I'd guess you would. But then again, streamlining is for the players benefit, regardless of pretty much 60% at least of the community who would prefer the diveristy of multiple codexes/choices similar to 3rd Edition.

Necrons? Imperial Guard? Dark Eldar? Getting crushed by power lists? At elite level competition, maybe World GT, should that ever happen, I'd probably see 10 Lists of identical Orks or Eldar, (over-emphasised, obviously). But then again, if you're going to be in the top of the world, then you're going to be a good general, whatever your list.

No, Space Wolves need an update, as much as Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar, Squats and Necrons.


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

JokerGod, I respectfully disagree with your position on the frivolity of the separate books for variant Space Marine chapters. While, yes, generally a marine is a marine, but each of these armies has a distinct flavor that shows both in the fluff and in gameplay.

For instance:
Dark Angels, many similarities to the current C:SM, but where the Dark Angels are different is the Deathwing and Ravenwing. These units can be fielded as troops or either Elite or Fast Attack. Granted, Khan allows the C:SM marines to do a similar trick. The main differences are that these units have extra rules like Deathwing Assault, Ravenwing have teleport homers, not to mention that all of these Fearless.

Blood Angels have the fearsome Death Company, a unit no other chapter has access too, as well as the Furioso Dreadnought and Baal Predator. Assault Squads are troops choices. The main effect that these differences have on Blood angels is that most units cost more than their equivalent in other codexes. The availability to take Assault Squads as troops gives Blood Angels a distinctly combat theme.

Space Wolves, similarly, have a distinct CC theme that allows them to step up against most CC armies because they have units like Blood Claws. The same goes for Black Templar. Honestly, the variations between chapters and their effects on battles are significant enough to be analyzed by someone who is more experienced than I am. To be more succinct than I have been, if GW was to fold all of the chapters into one book it would essentially be a second BRB or they would have to lose a lot of the distinctions.


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## Dessel_Ordo (Jul 28, 2008)

I agree with Vaz (damnit, why did you have to go and reset the damned S---t Clock again??? WHY?!?!?!?!???) and Underground Heretic, wolves need an update as much as IG, DE and Crons. Besides, updated wolves will lead to fewer Smurfs, and eventually, there will no longer be a legion of little kids playing smurfs, just a legion of kids playing 40K.


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## K-ROD (Jun 30, 2008)

im am not looking forward to the space wolves update cause the current book is so good


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## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

Just as an update i was looking at bartertown and found this 

Clicky

But essentially looks like space wolves are out this year, yay  im a happy bunny lol.


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm not saying do away with them, all I am saynig is that it is very clear that GW can not support the current list of Codex books out right now, so instead of creating three books for SM just make it one book, Keep all the different chapters in it, keep the divers areas, just put it in one nice book, it will open up room to work on other armys that need an update as well, and it will allow SM players to play the chapter they want with out two of them being next to ignored. 

What would you rather have, 1 SM book that covers everything and updated once every Edition or three books with one getting 2-3 Updates and the other two being ignored for close to 10 years?


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## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

Jokergod why are you whinging new spacemarine codex has serious issues yay new toys but you can have one if you part with an arm leg and firstborn. 
As well as the nerfing of librarians and chaplins if its anything to go by wolf priests and such will be init4 aswell and blood claws ws3/bs3 so look forward to it as it'll make your ork hordes better.

I can't wait to see what happens to orks so a balanced tourny list can beat them can bet you'll pay more for an ork say between 10-13 pts for a normal boy same as scout which there better then.
So look forward to at least 30 less orks which i'll be happy as thats around whats left after it wins 90% of games.

Then everyone will leave orks for next power gaming army as it sure as shit won't be orks anymore lol....

GW do ork codex this yr!!!! It'll make more money as people will need to buy new armies.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

Vaz said:


> To pretty much everyone complaining over Marines - Get the fuck off your high horse, and make a point that has some real value behind. I'm not telling people what to say, but when you get asinine, fucked up comments over the downright hatred over Space Marines "Oh look, they get all the new toys, Boohoohoo", "Oh look, _more_ marines...", when, really, they are baseless, and really pointless, it's both funny and aggravating. I don't know whether to pity you, or laugh at you, so I'll settle for both.


Absocluckinglutely spot on! The hordes mithering about marines are normally the same band wagon hoppers who think that the GW pricing/publishing schedule is done by the people who shot JFK or covered up Roswell.


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## Fangio (Nov 23, 2008)

Tbh this is the SW rumours thread. Go SMurf bash somewhere else and let the boys in gray get excited. If it was rumours about something you cared about and someone was sitting there highjacking the thread and bashing them I'm sure you would be pretty annoyed. Let them be.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

moo said:


> Just as an update i was looking at bartertown and found this
> 
> Clicky
> 
> But essentially looks like space wolves are out this year, yay  im a happy bunny lol.


Wow!! Great find moo!! I might have to start another new army at the end of the year by the looks of that model!... :shok:


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## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Fangio said:


> Tbh this is the SW rumours thread. Go SMurf bash somewhere else and let the boys in gray get excited. If it was rumours about something you cared about and someone was sitting there highjacking the thread and bashing them I'm sure you would be pretty annoyed. Let them be.


I think this post perfectly underlines my expectations for the rest of the thread: any more 'should it/shouldn't it' debates about a SW release I'll just delete. I'll emphasise *RUMOURS* from this point on. Ta! - Syph


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

I think the decision to release full codexes for divergent chapters was the right one. Chapters like the Space Wolves, Black Templars, Blood Angels and Dark Angels are different enough to warrant this. The old approach of the mini codexes was awkward to use as the constant refering to the Space Marine codex slowed down games and created confusion (especially when the Space Marine codex you are told to refer to is replaced with a newer version)

The full codex approach gives so many benefits :-

1: Each army gets a longer development cycle which improved it in all areas.

2: More chapter specific models get releases improve the visual look of the army (and more cheaper plastic kits rather than metal upgrades).

3: The army rules can diversify even further from the standard Space Marines adding to their uniqueness and character.

4: Far more background and art is created which improves enjoyment of using the Army.


I can understand the frustrations of those non marine players at seeing what they consider "Another Space Marine army" especially those who have been waiting even longer (Dark Eldar), feel there army has effectively been removed from the rules system (cult specific chaos) or is frustrated at having to buy expensive metal models (Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights). 
The fact is that Space Wolf players have been waiting for well over ten years since their rules were updated and are as deserving as anyone of their army getting some love.

I know Dark Eldar players can genuinely say they deserve it more but I think they recognise a need for an entire re-working and are happy to wait that little bit longer for an exemplary codex and models at the end of it (especially thankful that Gary Morley is not sculpting their warriors.)


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## BDJV (Dec 15, 2008)

Vaz said:


> True Grit is removed, but Grey Hunters gain 2 Attacks, Points Cost increase (might get Heavy Weapons).


I really hope those last two are not true. Grey Hunters with bolters are already on the pricey side, and having heavy weapons goes against all established fluff since the first Codex Space Wolves.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Death Shroud said:


> I think the decision to release full codexes for divergent chapters was the right one. Chapters like the Space Wolves, Black Templars, Blood Angels and Dark Angels are different enough to warrant this. The old approach of the mini codexes was awkward to use as the constant refering to the Space Marine codex slowed down games and created confusion (especially when the Space Marine codex you are told to refer to is replaced with a newer version)
> 
> The full codex approach gives so many benefits :-
> 
> ...


Right on, the non SM players are not invested in SM enough to know that the divergent Sm codices are NOT "another Sm list" but are separate forces, as different from main SM as they are from other races. They are only similar on one point, being a type of SM. 

By putting out a separate codex for the divergent factions of SM, Gw is able to emphasize their differences in a manner with more substance than a different color scheme.


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## Fangio (Nov 23, 2008)

Death Shroud said:


> The fact is that Space Wolf players have been waiting for well over ten years since their rules were updated and are as deserving as anyone of their army getting some love.


Christ ten years? I remember when that codex came out. That is just wrong.

Edit: I have just official made my first I remember when post. Soon I'll be talking about the good old days of <insert game edition>


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

3rd Edition 40K? Ah, memories.


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

I got the 3rd ed box set (with the big rule book, 20 dark eldar warriors, 10 marines and a land speeder-still got them lying around somewhere) for christmas 04(the year before 4th ed if i rember right.) 3rd ed is my 2nd fav, after 5th. i hated 4th-too complex. i also lost every single battle under 4th-but i use orks, and under 4th they were crap-3rd they sutied the rules.


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## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Let's stick to *Space Wolf Rumours* please!


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## Insane Psychopath (Dec 21, 2006)

_



True Grit is removed, but Grey Hunters gain 2 Attacks, Points Cost increase (might get Heavy Weapons).

Click to expand...

_Yes the Grey Hunter will have there True Grit remove (much like Death Guards for chaos). However.... from what I been told so far is there going to have a Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat weapon (make up for True grit), Frag & Krak grenades.

Heavy Weapon I not hear anything, background wise it was alway the Long Fangs.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I like how grey hunters work- hoping that if they could take hws that they would be expensive extras (i dont want to be lured into free hws and then have hard choices over moving or staying still).
- I've also heard that they get the chaos marine set up (bolter, bp&ccw nades) instead of true grit.

reallyhope that frost blades remain- i love them so much

heard that blood claws gain furious charge instead of berzerk.


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## Insane Psychopath (Dec 21, 2006)

Tim/Steve said:


> heard that blood claws gain furious charge instead of berzerk.


Yes it to try make the new codexies to fit in with the rule book, much like some the older rule for Chaos & Orks have change to those found in the main rule book & like wise for the Necron when they get re-done be feel no pain... instead of we'll be back, just to fit in more with the rule book


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Syph said:


> I see no problems at all with a Space Wolf update before others. I'm sure it's cheaper and quicker for GW to update the SW than Necrons and Dark Eldar are who both need models _and_ codex updates badly - and the Space Wolves are equally as old. Certainly in this financial climate it makes perfect business sense to update an army that will sell well and was easier to update; regardless if you agree with it or not.
> 
> In any case, Necrons and Dark Eldar are on the horizon so I really do not see the issue here.


I'm unsure if it'd sell better then dark eldar or necrons. I've seen quite many more necron players then space wolves(Meaning I've HEARD of one space wolf player, and seen six necron players). I dunno what all the fuss is about with them, for all we know this might be a reincarnation of Chaos Space Marines. Then we don't have to put up with hearing stupid "wolf this" and "wolfnoun" or any other variation of the speech impediment.

Although I'd love an update to black templar, we've been around since fourth right?

Also a legion book...but GW haets chaos mehreens.

In short, yay another book, boo another t4 3+ book. I don't hate space wolves, I don't hate marines(Hell I play them) but I was hoping they'd spend this time working on something besides space wolves(Being that unless this updated dex is ork-level, I'll never see it in play)


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## ravenskystorm (Feb 13, 2009)

sw and da need there own codex as yes they are marines but they differ from the normal marine army lists especial sw and i dont see the arguement of it all being in one codex as it would be to much to put all in one book an still make it worth paying the inflated price for what i would do with the 3rd ed armys is get my opponenet with an upgraded army just to use from the same addition as mine if our oppenent doesnt agree then there just being beardy realy lol

oh an i hope we dont lose lemon russ tanks lol havein them fits with the lore and it would make my modal pointless lol


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## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> I'm unsure if it'd sell better then dark eldar or necrons. I've seen quite many more necron players then space wolves(Meaning I've HEARD of one space wolf player, and seen six necron players). I dunno what all the fuss is about with them, for all we know this might be a reincarnation of Chaos Space Marines. Then we don't have to put up with hearing stupid "wolf this" and "wolfnoun" or any other variation of the speech impediment.
> 
> Although I'd love an update to black templar, we've been around since fourth right?


And so hypocrisy runs deep in your own statement, in that surely BT's have received massive amounts of unnecessary detail because they are essentially space wolves without the wolf? They both follow unorthodox methods of their chapters also favouring in close combat and less in the way of heavy weaponry and yet space wolves have been around since 1st and 2nd edition and tbh need a much required revamp much like dark angels and blood angels.
Personally i don't see BT's as a broken army but DA, BA and SW are, they have so many obselete rulings now and their characters and units are in many respects so underpowered (comparatively) due to a lack of a much needed update. These three forces have so much background and story behind them since the start of 40k they will always have a huge fan base so you must live in a very isolated area, Lord Waffles if there are 6 necron players to a possible 1 sw player.

I for one would be glad to see all the marine armies receive the much needed detail. I do agree with your one statement about chaos cults tho needing much more detail but i doubt it will happen anytime soon. So im glad SW's are getting their new codex soon and i hope in the near future BA, DA too. 

Also bear in mind GW have a multitude of talented game designers and lots of play testers so just because they have dedicated a small amount of their intellectual resource into SW doesn't mean its a waste im sure they are working on many many others. I think the thing which frustrates most of the non-standard marine players is that this has been long overdue.


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## Elemental_elf (Mar 12, 2008)

I hope the Leman Russ isn't removed! I really love my Russ!


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## BloodANgels89 (Jun 16, 2008)

competition style wolves in place of fluffy ones.....eh....i'll take it


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

moo said:


> And so hypocrisy runs deep in your own statement, in that surely BT's have received massive amounts of unnecessary detail because they are essentially space wolves without the wolf? They both follow unorthodox methods of their chapters also favouring in close combat and less in the way of heavy weaponry and yet space wolves have been around since 1st and 2nd edition and tbh need a much required revamp much like dark angels and blood angels.


When did I say we needed a book? I think it's nifty, I never said I cared about BT fluff, detail, or anything else. They're space marines.
Personally I could care less if they dropped nounwolfs entirely, around the store(of about twentyish people) maybe one was like "Oh that's cute." 

And when you cite hypocrisy and call objection, highlight that hypocrisy. Otherwise it just makes me think you enjoy using the word. (Objection!)



moo said:


> Personally i don't see BT's as a broken army but DA, BA and SW are, they have so many obselete rulings now and their characters and units are in many respects so underpowered (comparatively) due to a lack of a much needed update. These three forces have so much background and story behind them since the start of 40k they will always have a huge fan base so you must live in a very isolated area, Lord Waffles if there are 6 necron players to a possible 1 sw player.


It just means I live in an area where nobody wants to play an army with a pronounced annoying speech impediment. Surely you don't WISH to imagine your general battling the forces of nobodycaresville only to talk like a smurph taught wrong? (This wolfing bolter just wolfed up on me!)

DA aren't as broken as they are just bad without a certain build. Get on the bandwagon with everyone else with "bad codex" syndrome, like tau(Weak), crons(Really weak), BA(Meh?), Ultramarines(Failed at ard boyz), chaos(You must have THIS build to win!).

And you make a great point that Grey knights don't need any help at all. They're well known for just stomping through GTs, ignoring the living GOD out of minor psychic powers.(Nob bikers? Eff that Shi*, I've got twenty five point marines!)



moo said:


> I for one would be glad to see all the marine armies receive the much needed detail. I do agree with your one statement about chaos cults tho needing much more detail but i doubt it will happen anytime soon. So im glad SW's are getting their new codex soon and i hope in the near future BA, DA too.


I'm glad to see -A- codex show up, as for who it's for, I couldn't care less. If they turn out better than templar, I'll play them. Otherwise they're a funny-hat wearing space marine.



moo said:


> Also bear in mind GW have a multitude of talented game designers and lots of play testers so just because they have dedicated a small amount of their intellectual resource into SW doesn't mean its a waste im sure they are working on many many others. I think the thing which frustrates most of the non-standard marine players is that this has been long overdue.


Hahahaha...haha...really?
It wouldn't have taken three games for playtesters to say "Spawn/naught/possessed/lord/sorceror/vanilla marines/bikers/predators/fabius bile/huron don't work"
or
"Nob bikers are cheaters."
Talented game designers? See codex:Spikey marines.
Or perhaps Codex:Sad angels.

All they have is a small amount of intellectual resource, and we're wasting it updating an army that isn't really complained about.(Cron/DE/Daemon hunters)

But don't get me wrong man, wolf for the wolfgod.


Wait...is Phil Kelly writing this book? Oh. Nevermind what I said.
I'll play this army for sure. Phil Kelly writes the most BROKEN books of the edition he wrote them in. Maybe this is GW's way of apologizing for an underpowered smurph dex?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Syph said:


> Let's stick to *Space Wolf Rumours* please!


Yeah, anyway. You're beginning to sound like a broken recond. Live and let die, and all that.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Okay lord waffles, please stay on topic. discussing the bad points of other codices and wanting updates of other codices on this thread is doing nobody any good. 

Vaz, That's a bit too close to a personal attack. you're right in that it should stay in topic but be a little less of a dick about it.


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## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

Just to clarify a few points and hopefully make myself clear with out someone out and out attacking what i say and stay on topic as much as i can.



LordWaffles said:


> When did I say we needed a book? I think it's nifty, I never said I cared about BT fluff, detail, or anything else. They're space marines.
> Personally I could care less if they dropped nounwolfs entirely, around the store(of about twentyish people) maybe one was like "Oh that's cute."


Firstly you mentioned that you think BT's require an update, when i was merely stating that there are plenty of others which require an update and you clearly know it yourself and point out things like the GK's but the space wolf are also one of these in the category of a much needed update. Also bear in mind that like you said maybe your area doesnt favour wolves i believe there are plenty of sw players out there. I just don't feel your area is a clear indication of the quantity of wolf players.



LordWaffles said:


> It just means I live in an area where nobody wants to play an army with a pronounced annoying speech impediment. Surely you don't WISH to imagine your general battling the forces of nobodycaresville only to talk like a smurph taught wrong? (This wolfing bolter just wolfed up on me!)


Interesting how you attack players who do like space wolves, i mean it must mean you are either very angry at all their hype or some other thing would be bothering you as such, personally i think the space wolves have a good history and some nice quirks about them which make them very distinct and should be portrayed in a proper codex.



LordWaffles said:


> DA aren't as broken as they are just bad without a certain build. Get on the bandwagon with everyone else with "bad codex" syndrome, like tau(Weak), crons(Really weak), BA(Meh?), Ultramarines(Failed at ard boyz), chaos(You must have THIS build to win!).


Maybe broken is the wrong work. Maybe, it just favours certain types of builds "for tournament play" but not everyone plays in that style, i always build armies based upon fluff which is why im eager to see the new sw codex, to see what i can do with their new lists. 



LordWaffles said:


> And you make a great point that Grey knights don't need any help at all. They're well known for just stomping through GTs, ignoring the living GOD out of minor psychic powers.(Nob bikers? Eff that Shi*, I've got twenty five point marines!)


Im about 95% certain i didn't mention Gk's but thanks for making things up. I never said none of the other codices were right either but everyone will have different opinions, some like the new chaos dex, others don't. But that's the whole balance that games testers work on.



LordWaffles said:


> I'm glad to see -A- codex show up, as for who it's for, I couldn't care less. If they turn out better than templar, I'll play them. Otherwise they're a funny-hat wearing space marine.


Well i agree with you that it is good they are updating the codices but i do think you do care about what they bring out and rightly so, they should concentrate on the weaker races, but GW do lose sight that it is a game sometimes and look for the more capitalist view.



LordWaffles said:


> Hahahaha...haha...really?
> It wouldn't have taken three games for playtesters to say "Spawn/naught/possessed/lord/sorceror/vanilla marines/bikers/predators/fabius bile/huron don't work"
> or
> "Nob bikers are cheaters."
> ...


And yet you still continue to play? interesting, anyway my point was that they wouldn't dedicate 100% of their resources on just one dex, its why they have teams to work on a multitude of materials. And... (wait for it) Oh! look they seem to be releasing IG soon and dark eldar and crons are to follow (from rumours and other sources) 

To be honest lord waffles, take a step back mate and calm down, this thread is meant to be for the new sw rumours not for you to attack. 

Anyway here is an image i found of the new space wolf captain (for those interested):









Not keen on the head myself but a simple head swap would make a nice model i think. 

With the leman russ tanks i wonder if Sw's would have access to the new IG russ tank variants which would be very fun.


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## bon_jovi (Nov 16, 2008)

Sod the arguments, i can't wait for the new SW Codex! Shouldn't be long now!


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Haven't seen that model painted til now actually... Doesn't look as cartoony but still a small bit... I'd prefer to make my own with lightning claws but still not too bad...


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> Needless opinions





moo said:


> Anyway here is an image i found of the new space wolf captain (for those interested):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The head looks horrifically bad, like the sculptor sneezed in the middle than decided to just mosey along with his/her life.

The body is decent, I like the gaudy wolf heads on the backpack as well as the pelts.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

the head does look like he's taking quite a painful dump actually... he's not even looking where he's going


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> I hope some of these rumours are true, ie Bjorn making a return, more than 1 unit o scouts, Wolf guard as squads instead o bodyguards. Frost blades becoming relic blades sounds pretty good, make them less availasble but harder than they were/are. Bad rumours ie Grey hunters wi heavy weapons never happen, never has in background or previous codices?, BCs wi ws/bs 3, never agreed on this one, bs 3 I can handle, but ws 4 would be better as they train exclusively in cc. Wulfen as a specila LOD type choice, hope not, keep 13th seperate. Yeah, "standard" wolves turn into Wulfen, but are never put into packs, it generally happens during the Blooding, when they not been accepted into the Chapter, or during battles, and a swift kick in the plums fae a Wolf Priest usually sorts them out.

>. I hope Ulrik fucks off, and they bring Njall Stormcaller back in his place. No teleporting hopefully and some other shit. 

>> On the point of SWs not needing a seperate codex fae Vanillas, they are way to off that path for this. Not having a shot at anyone here, just saying. Played Wolves for many years, and know they nothing like Codex chapters. 

>. Anyhoos, what happens to them happens, wehether good or bad, I'll still play them, (unless they get absoloutly bum-fuddled, and turned into a grey codex chapter). Thats all im saying at the mo, and May Russ piss in yer beer!!:so_happy:


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## BDJV (Dec 15, 2008)

Firewolf said:


> Frost blades becoming relic blades sounds pretty good, make them less availasble but harder than they were/are.


Frost Blades becoming Relic blades is aweful because it's two handed.


Firewolf said:


> >. I hope Ulrik fucks off, and they bring Njall Stormcaller back in his place. No teleporting hopefully


Keep Ulric, bring back Njal and un-retcon teleportation back to 2nd ed. (cause I'd rather have the option to not buy drop pods if I wanna DS and save points.)

While I'm at it ditch the 0-1 jump pack equipt BC's and let me use the rest of the minis I have had collecting dust since 2nd ed.


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## bon_jovi (Nov 16, 2008)

Firewolf said:


> >> Thats all im saying at the mo, and May Russ piss in yer beer!!:so_happy:


I think he did piss in my beer, its called Bavaria, from holland and its not good! (Off to get a Carlsberg) Anyway, i played against the wolves once in a three way game and its hard to comment too much as the guy cheated something rotten, I only really figured it out when i looked up the rules when i got home! 

Eitherway i'm looking forward to my Dark Angels champion going toe to toe with a Space Wolves one again. for the honour of the chapter and because he called his robes girly.


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

BDJV said:


> Frost Blades becoming Relic blades is aweful because it's two handed.
> 
> 
> >> My bad, I totally forgot they were 2 handed, a well, thats pissy then. As you mentioned BC jump squads, they better drop the price on them, if the bs/ws 3 thing is correct. uke:


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

relic blades are not 2 handed weapons. they just do not allow a second attack for 2 close combat weapons.... you can stil wield a CCW and a relic blade, just it would make no difference =)


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Why not give the Wolves both Frost Blades _and_ Relic Blades *laughs evilly*
They are hacky-and-slashy enough to have a ton of melee weapons in my opinion.


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## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

I want to see the special character : Techno Viking.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

at last a new space wolf codex 
may have to return to the bank of mum
though that minature may well force me to return to building my thousand sons
the guy looks like he has just been penetrated
plz let that not be the general standard
and to those that say nay to a new codex may russ leave his spear in you
everyone deserves their chance though the DE really do need a redo


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## Munky (Oct 2, 2008)

Pauly55 said:


> I want to see the special character : Techno Viking.


LOL I'm with you there that guy is a legend!


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## BDJV (Dec 15, 2008)

Boogle at Warseer just posted that Wolves are scheduled for a December release date.


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## Locust (Dec 26, 2008)

Pauly55 said:


> I want to see the special character : Techno Viking.



NO NO NO NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO! 

The Wolves of Russ do NOT dance to techno!


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## Fangio (Nov 23, 2008)

Locust said:


> NO NO NO NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO!
> 
> The Wolves of Russ do NOT dance to techno!



In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only jazz.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I think they'd be into something like that Lordi crowd that won the eurovision a few years ago. Long hair, big teeth, loud, and with a hint of viking. 

Then again, the Eurovision is a bit camp, so maybe not.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

BDJV said:


> Boogle at Warseer just posted that Wolves are scheduled for a December release date.


I doubt that, Id guess November or bust(this year). GW dont want big new releases in December since Xmas is taking more then all time the staff has allready in the stores:wink:

So I'd modify that schedual to November if I were you folks


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## Apoctis (Feb 14, 2008)

I know this isn't asked very often but how about new SW fluff rumours because I don't play them I just have a codex and I really like the fluff. I have also read some books that are great. I hope Long fangs stay the same they were easy to convert. Man I wish I hadn't sold the army but gaurd looked to good.


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## davidg32 (Dec 19, 2008)

Any word on scouts keeping their "behind enemy lines" special rule? 

also I cant wait for this new codex... ive been wanting to get my hands on the fw terminators... they look so awesome! 

as fas as grey hunters go i hope they clarify the whole true grit or not... to be honest it just got so confusing in 4th edition. 

Russ be praised his Wolves are getting an update!


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Ive heard Grey Hunters are getting the CSM build of bolter, bolt pistol and ccw so dont need true grit.

I doubt OBEL is gonna stay, they'll probably get to outflank and choose the table side or something...


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## Baradur (Aug 14, 2008)

I've said in another thread, I guess that the new SW dex will be coming out in November, along side Prospero Burns. Makes sense if you ask me, smart move as well, bring the new rules out along side the book which is going to probably inspire people to want to play The Sons of Russ.
New codex, yay ^_^


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## pez376 (Mar 24, 2009)

*Space Wolves ranty goodness regarding new codex*



JokerGod said:


> SW and DA should not have there own Codex what so ever. It should have all bin covered in the SM codex By braking them up all GW is doing is pissing off people that don't play SM because then every one els has to wait even longer for there Army to get a much needed update. I will admit my last comment was short how ever it still stands, SM do not need any more updates what so ever, they have gotten enough and GW needs to focus more on the other armys so they can get updated in to 5th and become competitive.
> 
> Guard need and update so they don't get crushed by every power list out there, some as DE and Necrons. SW should be solved with an Errata saying "refer to Codex: SM"
> 
> ...



I feel I think I need to jump into this debate a sec: As a space wolves and necron player, I also have a CSM army.

Starting from 2ed W40K, Space Wolves/Dark Angels and Blood Angels have ALWAYS had a separate codex from the Ultramarines, there was if I remember correctly NO generic Space Marine codex. (I am not sure why GW took this route of marketing back in 2nd edition - but they decided that all the armies at the time would have an individual specific codex).
At the time also from memory Orks/Eldar/IG and Chaos had their own specific codexes. Prior to this time there was only 1 manual for W40K which was rouge trader. 
I am not sure why but the "loyalist" space marine armies were themed to a specific ideas. Space Wolves were vikings, ultramarines were roman, Dark Angels - monastic & Blood Angels - Beserkers. The ideas behind these themes are still there if you look in there background carefully but ultramarines have distanced itself from the original concept and has progressed into what is now become "CODEX ASTATES CHAPTER" and become the model space marine chapter (they always have been). Because of this theming that has shaped these chapter in the lore of W40K it is unfeisable to lump them all into one codex. Blimey the new SM codex was big enough ( and that just took in the ultramarines and codex chapters) but to add in all the variations of SW/DA/BA plus any other original founding chapters like IF/IH or WS and Sallies which was all in the 3rd edition SM or index astartes update supplements. The codex would of been too large and too expensive to produce thereby making it too expensive too buy.

Returning back to the original point since the original 2nd edition codex that SW has had, they only had 1 codex update from the 3rd edition. the same goes for Dark Angels. GW tried unsuccessfully to update the codex for the "other" space marine chapter by releasing an online update for the blood angels. This was SO badly received by everyone they have decided against doing that with other chapter codexes.

Now lets look at it from a marketing point of view. Space Marines are the biggest earning product across the entire GW product range. This includes Warhammer and LoTR. So in this time of financial insecurity and unrest, what are GW going to push to sell? An army which could bring in up to 5% profit or something which can bring in 20% profit. it is a no brainer - space marines ARE going to win every time over any other army. is it no coincidence that the HQ in Nottingham UK has a big statue of a SM outside? Not really as Space Marines have made the company what it is today. Therefore returning to the point that if the codex is going to be too expensive to buy this WOULD of impacted on sells of that product line probably to the extent that if that happened GW would probably would of had gone into liquidation this year or next (Thank god they didn't). It is NOT a case a GW pissing off other non SM armies, it is purely down to a marketing decision. 

Now as someone who has been waiting since 2000 for a new SW codex that is 9 years, I had been waiting 5 years since 2002 for the Chaos Marine codex which has been out now for 2 years and they decided to take out demons from the CSM codex to form a "new" army, and I have been waiting since 2002 for the new Codex for Necrons. I couldn't believe that GW released a new SM codex after the release of 5ed so soon after the last codex was updated. But again the Ork codex was released as a 5ed codex so as Space Marines are always the army of choice regarding new W40K release it made financial sense to bring them inline with 5ed 1st to compete with the orks. (After all you cant have the defenders of humankind losing to xenos scum, can you?)

As time has progressed armies like SW/DA, Necrons, DE and IG ALL need drastic action regarding their codex update as the FAQ doesn't cut it and these armies are near unplayable IMO. I haven't played my wolves in 2 years because the points cost of the models/per unit compared to other "codex" marine armies is so unbalanced it just isnt worth playing because I already know I am going to lose and cannot compete. I am approaching that threshold at the moment with my necrons since the release of 5ed. fighting Tau/ Eldar or "codex" SM's is just not worth it.

I do not begrudge IG getting their codex update, I just wish it was Necrons or SW. 

When SW's codex came out in 2000 for a number of years it was popular to hate SW simply because people viewed them as overpowering compared to "codex" chapter marines. To a simple case this was fairly true, over time with the many updates to Space Marine and other armies of W40K Space Wolves have been seriously suffering, to the extent now people like ohhh wow space wolves..how novel!
Necrons had the same treatment so did Eldar and DE. in fact I can't remember the last time I saw anyone field a DE army, probably about 3 years ago in my local GW store. It is to some extent NAS (new army syndrome).

I will say sorry to those regarding my ranting, I have been waiting SOOOO long for this codex and I still need to wait at least another 4-6 months before it is even confirmed that it is the next codex to be released?

There are armies out there that have been conceived, introduced and codex updated since the last codex updated for Space Wolves so have a bit of compassion and understanding and dont fall into the trap..."Not more SM's" 

Also JokerGod please don't take my rant personally as I can clearly see your point of view and to a certain extent agree with it I took your quote as a specific mainly because it seemed quite a common agrument that I been hearing for a while now. But please just accept that non codex chapter SM are different armies to normal SM's and they also need a codex update too. After all on the past performance of GW it will probably be nearer to 2018 when SW get another codex update!


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## pez376 (Mar 24, 2009)

I would like to appoligise for going off topic somewhat regarding my above post.

Now back on topic:

I heard it was a November release from my local GW store. so im expecting that to slip to feb 2010 lol.

Leman Russ (exterminator) going (NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO)
it was comparable to a predator tank but because of the association regarding the primarch it was unusual to see it fielded in a SM army, making it more chapter specific.

Grey Hunters losing true grit and gaining BP/Bolter &CCW for extra points...well without the extra points cost, losing true grit for that build isnt that bad, but to increase the cost WTF?


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Vaz said:


> Blahblahblah


Fuck your 3+ I want a t-shirt save!

Haha, on a serious note though, good for them. Bad for chaos if they get preffered enemy.(Like we need a reason to not take tzeentch troops)

The rise in points for 2 attacks isn't unprecendented. Look at possessed.


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## trog (Apr 6, 2009)

well 2 wat iv heard from romurs dating back to mid last year it was meant to go guard, necrons, dark elder and the sons of russ last of all


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## Nemesis-The-Warlock (Jun 10, 2008)

trog said:


> well 2 wat iv heard from romurs dating back to mid last year it was meant to go guard, necrons, dark elder and the sons of russ last of all


dark elder were originally pencilled in for this year but necrons definately weren't


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## moo (Aug 12, 2008)

trog said:


> well 2 wat iv heard from romurs dating back to mid last year it was meant to go guard, necrons, dark elder and the sons of russ last of all


and rumours being what they are, they aren't official release times/information so it's not surprising.

It's weird how the leman russ tank might not be part of the sw dex considering it's named after their primarch. They should keep it in imo, but we will see.


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## Wachaza (Mar 20, 2008)

UK Games Day will be either Space Wolves or Space HUlk with the other following in November.


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## Baradur (Aug 14, 2008)

So, hearing from Bolterandchainsword, and warseer, Phil Kelly has finished the Space Wolves codex and has started writing up Grey Knights?
Space Wolves to be released on Games day? What do we think?


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## Nemesis-The-Warlock (Jun 10, 2008)

Baradur said:


> So, hearing from Bolterandchainsword, and warseer, Phil Kelly has finished the Space Wolves codex and has started writing up Grey Knights?
> Space Wolves to be released on Games day? What do we think?


space wolves codex was finished a good while ago and even if it really is grey knights for his next project I still wouldn't expect it for a fair while just yet


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Take a look here, and combine it with whats written on this page here,and you might very well be on to something...

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31897

If that holds true then BoC and SWs are the 2 things up next with them Wolves at Gamesday and the Beasts in November. This would even more hold true if the SW codex is completed!
I doubt that Space Hulk will have such a big release that it will push an armybook to either 40k or WHFB into the next year. My guess would be that its released "as an additional release" somewhere during the autumnk:
The ratarsed ones(Skavens) seems, mainly from "lack of rumours", to be pushed into 2010...


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## Nemesis-The-Warlock (Jun 10, 2008)

MaidenManiac said:


> The ratarsed ones(Skavens) seems, mainly from "lack of rumours", to be pushed into 2010...


thats one heck of a jump of logic


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## trog (Apr 6, 2009)

dis is the first iv heard of a grey knight codex, to wat extent rumours i thought they were goin to throw all the inquisition in2 1 codex. they were essencally the same neway, ill just follow grimmer n fight them tooth n claw for the armagedon atrosity


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## Nemesis-The-Warlock (Jun 10, 2008)

trog said:


> dis is the first iv heard of a grey knight codex, to wat extent rumours i thought they were goin to throw all the inquisition in2 1 codex. they were essencally the same neway, ill just follow grimmer n fight them tooth n claw for the armagedon atrosity


having all the inquisistion in 1 book was just a rumour, 
but it has been stated fairly recently that xenos hunters won't be coming for a very long time, 
and that both deamon hunters and witch hunters will be released at least once before then


and in reference to the earlier post skaven have not been moved back


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

doesn't true grit and the new counter attack cancel each other out. and now that anyone can make a assault response move, wolves lost a nifty advantage that they are paying points for, IMO they are in need of an update.


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## BDJV (Dec 15, 2008)

Did anyone else catch Nick Kyme on Worlds End radio? He mentioned that he's doing an audio Space Wolf book for release at Games Day. I'd say it's a great time to be a Wolf fan! I'm still hoping for a GDUK pre-release of the Wolf dex.


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## Wachaza (Mar 20, 2008)

Games Day wiil be either Space Hulk or Space Wolves. If BL ae putting stuf out then it might point at SW . If Prospero Burns was due at GD I'd be very confident of SW but since it's a bit later now who knows.


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## falcon77 (Apr 3, 2009)

Space Wolves seriously need a new codex, that 3rd ed piece of shite is a joke. The only decent thing Space wolf players got from 3rd ed was a figure for Logan Grimnar and a codex that has good fluff value, wtf ?.
Multiple marine codex's why not, Dark Angels and Blood Angels could be combined "Angels of Death" like 2nd ed, the new Space Marine (should be Utramarines). Giving players two SM codex's.
I couldn't comment on Necron or Dark Eldar (which should have been a Slaanesh cult army) as I never played them.


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## falcon77 (Apr 3, 2009)

Forgive my ignorance I forgot about the Black Templars, I'm a relative newbie to any ed, past 2nd ed.


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## pez376 (Mar 24, 2009)

My local GW store of which we are lucky and have two in my city, have confirmed to me that SW dex will be released in Nov.

Apparently the logic is that; in November the company wants a BIG W40K army release due to the increased sell that carry on throughout December (ultimately xmas) and to tie them over to the next army/dex release in February. (This is expecially true this year due to reduced sells/profits from the credit crunch). 

As W40K is the biggest profit earner for GW, and marines the best selling army plus it makes sense that the release happens then. Planetstrike will probably by summer or gamesday maybe Space Hulk (for which I can't wait  ) will be out then.

But as for the release of SW dex this according to my local GW stores is November.

If I hear anything different I will post it


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## BloodANgels89 (Jun 16, 2008)

HONESTLY.......

The Wolves do not NEED new codex.....As much as people want to talk crap about it(People at my local gaming store) or ANYWHERE for that matter....we don't need it.

Being able to have 3 power weapons/fists in a 15 man squad... for around the SAME point cost as a ten man marine squad with power fists, special weapon, heavy weapons, and transport kicks TOO much ass. 

Our vanilla HQ's rock harder than special characters more times than not. I literally sent my wolf lord into a squad of plague marines and walked out untouched, and he's only 150 pts.

We have awesome special rules, awesome point costs, and the fact we refer to space marine codex for most things makes it better (All my hq's have a 3+invuln)

We only have SLIGHT things to care about, and that's our over priced Logan Grimnar (If he has eternal warrior that'd be great) aaannnd.....that's it.

I almost always win my games with space wolves against RECENT codex releases.

I am actually afraid of what the new codex holds, because I have a feeling i can not run three power fists anymore, or take HQ's that actually DO something for a decent point cost


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## BDJV (Dec 15, 2008)

BA89, I think you are oversimplifying the problems that the Wolves have. You forgot that we have overpriced BC bikers and Jump packers. We also have overpriced Rhinos and Razorbacks. How bout all of the unusable Wargear?

I look forward to what Phil Kelly does with the Wolves!


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Two words sum up the problem with space wolves as they are currently: True grit. With true grit, the space wolves pay points for an ability that is inferior to chaos having bolt pistol, bolter and ccw. True grit is not the only problem, but is a symptom of the greater problem, 3E codices. 

BTW Saying that a force does not need a new codex, since another also
needs one isn't helping things, it is creating a climate where each player faction sees the other as competing for mutually exclusive resources. In addition, the " marine factions don't need codices" argument doesn't work any better, as it oversimplifies the issue with a " they look the same, so they play the same" approach. Personally, I would like to see more codices, such as IG codices drawn up based along the theater that the particular force was drawn up for. That is, take the idea of codex: catachan jungle fighters and run with it for all major environments; include the catachans in a jungle/swamp book, cadians and vostroyans in a cityfighting book, etc. Ithink that eldar need a similar approach, as one book cannot do justice to the craftworlds, exodites, harlequins and eldar pirates any reasonable justice.
Other factions might be reasonable to have a one book approach, as the differences are more in makeup of the list, so a list based- approach might be appropriate, as less significant variations are needed.


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## BloodANgels89 (Jun 16, 2008)

If you like bikers and jump packers then I see your problem. 

We only have like two pieces of unusable war gear as well, which in my opinion, hardly made a difference before either way.

A rhino with extra armor in the new dex is 50 pts, we can get them for 58, only an 8 pts difference, when blood claws are 3 pts cheaper than a standard marine.

Also, we get 12 pt power fists, tactical marine power fists are 25.

Sure we can't take heavy weapons in troop choices, but we don't need them.

I just hope GW doesn't take away our CC aspect by reducing us to 1 power weapon or fist per squad or something retarded like that.


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## pez376 (Mar 24, 2009)

Looking at what the new dexes have been released, it seems quite common that vehicle costs are coming down (i.e. Dedicated transports - and I am expecting the costs to come down for SW as per the FAQ we are to use the points value from the SM dex) and the cost of weaponry going up (i.e. Power fists). As power fists in particular went up in points value with vanilla marines and CSM's, I have heard the rumour that PF's for IG has gone up in value.

What would that do for SW. IMO I believe we will still get the extra options as we had before (3x PF in GH squad) but you will pay an increased premium for it..maybe even the 25pts per model as for vanilla marines.

The over costing of units is what make playing SW unbearable, In my experience Wolves either do very well or very badly, dependent on which army you are facing. This is due to an imbalance of the 3ed dex compared to more recent dex army releases as their points cost for units have been decreased. 
As what Son of Mortarion stated with regards to True Grit, he is quite right, I have heard the rumor that this is getting replaced with the BP, Bolter, CCW combo as in the CSM army.

Just looking at the SW special rules in the front of the current codex and comparing the to the last FAQ, The following rules no longer apply because they are outdated: And they shall know no fear/Drop Pods (Now used from SM dex), Mixed Armour/ Counter Attack/ No matter the odds (All now invalid rules), the only ones left are: Will not teleport, Acute senses, true grit, fenrisian wolves.
It is as you can see just not a matter of debating points costs of units or their abilities but a general re-write of the army rules that is needed to bring it back into contention with regards to 5ed. That is what is needed to be resolved and why we need a new dex urgently. 

I would like to commend BloodANgels89 for having a good record against other armies, some of his arguements make interesting reading but I believe his views are in a minority with regards to his views on if a new SW dex is needed or not.

Plus look on a brightside: new dex usually means new models for our awesome army


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## Lord Lucius (Sep 18, 2008)

GW stoped FAQs so ,how can you say you cant use those rules (apart from those you actually cant eg the grey knights rules) and has any one considerd that the high prisd units are rare in a space woolf army? if any one moans about high pts ,play vanilla marines with SW moddels,no really ,you will probably enjooy that army beter,far more customizable


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## pez376 (Mar 24, 2009)

Lord Lucius said:


> GW stoped FAQs so ,how can you say you cant use those rules (apart from those you actually cant eg the grey knights rules) and has any one considerd that the high prisd units are rare in a space woolf army? if any one moans about high pts ,play vanilla marines with SW moddels,no really ,you will probably enjooy that army beter,far more customizable


UMMM GW doesn't do FAQ's any more??

So why do have this link that goes to the 5ed FAQ?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=600005&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&start=2

You will find all the FAQ's plus errata here for all the armies and 5ed rulebook by GW

It sez in the SW FAQ to ignore them rules, i did not make it up!!!!! for the rules I stated in my previous post to ignore, these have been made redundant and no longer work in 5ed (That is why it states in the FAQ to ignore them). As for the other rule these have been superseded by rules in either the 5ed RB or the current SM codex.

I wasn't moaning about the high price of units, I was making the point that the SW dex IS outdated because some units are overpriced now for 5ed compared to how they played in 3ed or 4ed.

As i also stated in my previous post "congrats to BA89" because since 5ed I really have mixed results with my SW army. I am not doubting your prowess or tactical genius, or even my ineptitude as a tactician (If your results are what they claim I would really love to hear what your list is and your tactics in play..Honestly, so I can improve my army). The drastic issues your fearing I doubt will happen..but what we HAVE been getting away with since 3ed will be MORE heavily penalized by extra points cost That and also to bring us more in line with 5ed rules. Other factors like the cost of Bikes and Jump-marines will i expect become lower and our units to come more inline with the current SM characters ie. Logan Grimnar to be priced and stat line as compared to a normal Chapter Master. Wolf Guard to be demoted to Veteran troops etc (But again not so rigid structure as vanilla marines). I don't believe GH will get a heavy weapons choice or that there will be exceptional changes to the SW fluff way of play.

From MOST of the rumors that has been circulated especially on this thread..most of the changes seems to be for the better>for the good of the army. There IS always serious disappointment when YOUR dex is re-released AND things have changed but that is something that ALWAYS happens. I remember when Eldar lost Harlequins and Was V disappointed when CSM lost demons (or they was seroiusly nerfed and not worth playing). I ALSO remember with clarity the crap I always use to take at my LGS when I always produced my SW army because it was the army that people used to hate (taken up more so now by Necrons). People are simply not scared of Wolfs AND they should be ..after all our primarch taught us better than that, and to be our own chapter not like those other sheep (Smurf-wannabe) chapters lol.


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## Lord Lucius (Sep 18, 2008)

so sorry, I cant remember when but a games workshop told me it no longer existed,and I couldnt find it on the new site,but your right and Im wrong (and the dex is dated I agree,sorry)


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## BloodANgels89 (Jun 16, 2008)

Space Wolves 1850

HQ: 429
Wolf Lord-
-Wolf Tooth Necklace
-Frost Blade
-Storm Shield
-Master Crafted Weapon
-Runic Armour
-Wolf Pelt

Rune Priest-
-Wolf Tooth Necklace
-Frost Blade
-Storm Shield
-Master Crafted Weapon
-Chooser of the slain
-Wolf Pelt

Wolf Guard Battle Leader-
-Wolf Tooth Necklace
-Frost Blade
-Storm Shield
-Master Crafted Weapon
-Runic Armour
-Wolf Pelt

Troops: 865
Gray Hunters-
-9 Man
-1 Power Fist
-Melta Gun
-Rhino (Smoke, Armor)

Wolf Guard Battle Leader-
-Storm Shield
-Power Fist
-Wolf Pelt

Blood Claws #1- 
-10Man
-2 Power Weapon
-Flamer


Blood Claws #2- 
-9 Man
-1 Power Fists
-Flamer
-Rhino( Armor,Smoke)

Blood Claws #3- 
-13 Man
-2 Power Fists
-Flamer

Heavy: 550
Land Raider Crusader-
-Armor
-Multi Melta


Land Raider Crusader- 
-Armor
-Multi Melta

As you see, it's a very simple list. 

I have come to realise with the SW codex that the cheapest of the cheap work the best (besides land raiders)

All of those HQ's have literally demolished squads by themselves, and those who play with me fear them completely, mainly the rune priest, for his ability to cloak himself (and squad) in a shroud that allows them to attack first, hence the power weapon choices rather than power fists( which always strike last). I just decided what squad would do what, and tailored it to be just that.

Thirteen man squad with wolf lord is my "Objective taker" squad. They unload alot of models, charge anything on the objective, kill it, and wait there for the enemy to get frisky. 

Rune priest squad with two power weapons hunt down CC squadrons, or squads in cover somewhere, basically just a troop hunter squad. They make sure nothing can flank.

Grey Hunters hunt monstrous creatures and armor.

last blood claw pack is used wherever they are needed (defending a taken objective, assist in tank/creature hunting/ stopping the flank)

This strat always seems to work for me. And if it's not an intricate game I have two land raiders screen two rhinos up the field into the heart of the enemy.

I have had bad luck with dreadnoughts, never attempted wolf scouts, wolf gaurd squads are too expensive for what they do (ten blood claws can do the job for cheaper), our special characters (with the exception of ragnar, but even then....) are easily replaced with the HQ choices above for roughly 135-148 pts a pop.

Like I said, this strat works, hug terrain for them cover saves, or popping smoke, I ALWAYS find my self charging SOMETHING by turn 2...literally.

Just remember, no matter how much shooting they have done to you, once you get that first squad into combat, the game is most likely yours


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## pez376 (Mar 24, 2009)

Lord Lucius said:


> so sorry, I cant remember when but a games workshop told me it no longer existed,and I couldnt find it on the new site,but your right and Im wrong (and the dex is dated I agree,sorry)


No Probs mate (it was hard to find), hope I helped you out by giving you the web address of the FAQ k:

And many thanks to BA89 of the posting of your army and tac's, It has given me some ideas with regards to where I might be going wrong on some games. I normally play between 1000-1500pts due to time constraints, when I play my buds, I might try to get them one nite to extend their game to 1850 match to see how it goes lol.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

SW are just boring for now- I have a stupidly high win record with them but they dont have a lot of choice if your going for effective units. Bikes/assault squads need prices slashing, grey hunters need an upgrade, Iron Priest doesnt work and would be crap anyway and the special characters (except ragnar) are a joke

Having said that, they dont NEED an update, go Blood Claw heavy, throw in vehicles from C:SM and you got an awesome army... it needs a revamp to stop it becomming old and tired (bu crons are far more guilty of that).


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## Baradur (Aug 14, 2008)

Anyone heard anything more solid about the codex coming out the end of this year?
I'm kind of worried that they moved Prospero Burns back until April next year.. o_o


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

I have it on reasonably good authority that we will see SW by november this year. How do I know this? My local store manager plays SW and was ordering some things from GW Direct. He asked about Logan Grimnar, and the guy on the other end said they were unavailable due to "repackaging". So, although most definitely not concrete, things look like they are underway for SW.


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## BDJV (Dec 15, 2008)

Phil Kelly has hinted twice now that at GD UK there would be a preview for the Wolves. So I'd guess that October or November for the actual release.


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## Bodyguard666 (Apr 14, 2008)

Found this on BOLS today.


> Whispers on the wind tell us the following:
> 
> Space Wolves have two new main sets planned:
> -Wolf Guard in Terminator armour.
> ...


Dunno if anyone else has seen it yet. I can't wait for the new pups!


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## BDJV (Dec 15, 2008)

It's already reported in the New SW rumors thread.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=34806


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Ordo Xeno Commander said:


> I have it on reasonably good authority that we will see SW by november this year. How do I know this? My local store manager plays SW and was ordering some things from GW Direct. He asked about Logan Grimnar, and the guy on the other end said they were unavailable due to "repackaging". So, although most definitely not concrete, things look like they are underway for SW.


Not a great thing to go by- the wolf dex was removed over a year ago and most of the range including the battleforce cant be bought any more either


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