# Today`s ethics in M41



## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Hypothetically...



Let`s say you are an inquisitor on a world recently invaded by the eldar. During the scouring, you get separated from your search party and stumble across a lone eldar child hiding in the planet`s wilderness. You notice that her waystone is damaged, and will no longer function. As an inquisitor, you are well aware of what fate awaits her if she were to die like this. 

Would you...

1: Kill her anyway, regardless.

2: Leave her to fend for herself.

3: Take her prisoner to salve your conscience, and hand her over to your superiors.



p.s. Please ignore the massive plotholes. I`m interested in the ethical dilemma and people`s responses to it, not storytelling. If this gets a lot of hits I may try more scenarios.


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

id keep her as a member of my retinue and shoot anyone who tried to stop me


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## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

Practically the above, either that, or give the child back to the Eldar.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Kale Hellas said:


> id keep her as a member of my retinue and shoot anyone who tried to stop me





Snowy said:


> Practically the above, either that, or give the child back to the Eldar.


Really? :shok: This is unexpected. Interesting though...


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

So were assuming we are the Inquisitor, possessing the morality we have today?

If so I would keep the Eldar Child, and raise her as one of my retinue. But then anyone who maintains 21st Century morals in the 41st Millennium will quickly find themselves dead.


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## grimdarkness (Apr 19, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> So were assuming we are the Inquisitor, possessing the morality we have today?
> 
> If so I would keep the Eldar Child, and raise her as one of my retinue. But then anyone who maintains 21st Century morals in the 41st Millennium will quickly find themselves dead.


precisley. If it was me, but with the moral compass i have now, I'd like to think that i would find a way to save the child. But the correct thing to do in the 41st millenium is to kill it. Xenos after all.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Is she hot?


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## WarlordKaptainGrishnak (Dec 23, 2008)

King of Cheese, she's a child...are you sick  though depends on the age...

anywho, yes spare the child


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Kill the xenos filth. My only concern is scouring the planet of the invaders.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Personally, for me it all depends on the age; if she is old enough to have some information, perhaps about Eldar society and their language and whatnot, then I'd turn her over to my superiors. She is an alien, her people readily kill mine without a second thought, they are happy enough to use us as cannon fodder whenever it best suits them.

Whether I am using my morals and ethics of now, or of the 41st millenium doesn't matter. Personally I have no reason to kill her, so I will not, but that does not mean I will do nothing with her or treat her as a normal person.


If she is to young to know much of anything, then she is only useful in observing how her body acts and reacts; best left to be dissected and studied. She has no knowledge of her people, so there is no point in keeping her around.



As far as being an inquisitor goes, I'm assuming we are doing this from the standpoint of an ordo xenos inquisitor. I have my doubts that a malleus one would even give it a second thought and just kill her for the crime of being an alien.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Well if i Was an inquisitor I would be a puritan so I'd lop her head off immediately but ethically I should wither return her to the eldar or keep her as a member of my retinue.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I would call any Inquisitor that arbitrarely killed a xenos that can be reasoned with without any real provocation a poor one.

Understanding of the Eldar is largely incomplete, prisoners are exceedingly rare, and formal relations with their Craftworlds are the overwhelming exception rather than the rule. An Inquisitor's foremost duty, especially one of the Ordo Xenos, would be to balance avoiding corruption with gaining an understanding of the enemy's weaknesses, to better exploit them later. Maybe the baby does not lead to this, in which case it is little more than a specimen to study. Or maybe it does, and now you have an in with the Eldar of said Craftworld.

Using 21st century morals? Uhm, you'd... protect her from your fellow humans until you were able to return her to her kind? As a very last solution, sure, train her, raise her to be a righteous warriors and all that jazz.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Phoebus said:


> Using 21st century morals? Uhm, you'd... protect her from your fellow humans until you were able to return her to her kind? As a very last solution, sure, train her, raise her to be a righteous warriors and all that jazz.


This is what I'd do, so quoted for the truth. (and to save me typing out the whole thing).


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## Xenobait (May 3, 2010)

+1 to that.

_If_ however, I was an inquisitor using M41 ethics I would...
1) Be a little more inovative, and boobytrap the little xeno! Then send a squad to deliver her to the nearest eldar unit.

OR

2) Train her to be part of my personal harem. Dem eldars was so pervy dey made a hole in the space!


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## Kickback (May 9, 2008)

I kill it, I'd break its xeno neck.
One less future problem to deal with


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Save the child then go to Chaos. It's funner over there.


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

Kill it.

With fire.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Kickback said:


> I kill it, I'd break its xeno neck.
> One less future problem to deal with





NoiseMarine said:


> Kill it.
> 
> With fire.


My thoughts. 

I would kill the eldar child BEFORE she becomes the farseer who engineers the destruction of a dozen imperial worlds. What with irony being all the rage nowadays.

Scenario 2.

Defendin a fortress against tyranids. Between waves, the gates are left open in case refugees from other towns or whatever turn up. They are closed/reinforced/electrified/whatever during attacks.

This time, a group of PDF are approaching. Estimate two squads in two chimeras. But a large wave of tyranids is pursuing them fast. It is too close to call from your vantage point, and no better opinion is availabe. The decision is yours.

Do you:

1: Leave the gates open until the troops make it, their extra help is worth the risk at this point.

2: Close the gates, it`s not worth it. Too much is at stake. The troops could be compromised after all!

Again, ignore the plotholes and go with what you know. You`re still an inquisitor for this one so how you think it out is up to you.


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

leave the gates open and shoot anything that gets in with them.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

What does the Nid force consist of?

Remember that MC's get 2D6 AP.
Whats the AV of the gates?


If its swarm, leave them outside and shoot the shit out of bugs.
If its MC's, may as well open it. They are only going to smash it down anyway.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Mixed. Hormagaunts and raveners rushing out ahead, Fexes and tyrants closing up behind.

MCs will be neutralised before they reach gates. Assume that. :grin: But if enough little critters get in, you will lose precious time dealing with them. Bear that in mind.

AV of gates? This is fluffwise! But if it helps...

AV 14 with 2 structure points.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Leave them outside- chances are if the Bigs ones will be dead long before the gates then the littles ones will either

A)be too preoccupied with trying to open the chimeras giving your men more time to kill them
B) be too preoccupied with trying to scale the walls leaving the men in the chimera more time to kill them
C) try to do both at once giving you a chance to catch them in a big crossfire.

opening the gates to let in 20 men and risk everyone else is stupid and reckless.

As for the previous scenarion- disection. the more we know about their biology the better we can kill them, and they don't seem to bothered with killing our children, why should we care about theirs?


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Leave them outside, running the risk of the open gates being overrun for two potentially compromised squads is simply not worth it. You have the safety of everyone behind those walls at stake, and sadly it is the safety and needs of the many that are greater than that of the few.

Also, if this is supposed to be from a fluff perspective then keep in mind that bigger tyranid creatures are very hard to bring down. It takes massed firepower of heavy weapons to do the job, and thats while trying to hold back a tide of smaller creatures. For example, a carnifex on the table-top doesn't seem all that big, but fluffwise its supposed to be an 8.5 ton, 20 foot monster with tank heavy chitin. (Hive tyrants are roughly the same height and about 5 tons for those who are wondering.)


Trying to save those two squads is noble, but for those of you who said you'd leave the gates open, would you honestly risk the lives hundreds or thousands for less then two dozen? Remember, once those 'nids start pouring into the gate, you will struggle to get it closed; humans run out of ammo and get tired, a wave of tyranids trying to enter a breech will not.


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## GWLlosa (Sep 27, 2009)

I think there's a quote somewhere in the IG Codex that sums up the situation perfectly. I don't have the codex on me, but it's a good one. Will post it when I get home. It boils down to, essentially, "The PDF swore to protect the planet with their lives. Letting them in would risk the planet, only to save their lives."

In a nutshell, 

PDF --swears--> save Planet.

Rescue PDFs --risks--> losing Planet, gaining PDFs.

So, 

Rescue PDF --risks--> losing planet, for the gain of people, whose job it is to risk themselves to save the planet.

Leave the door closed. If they value their oaths, they'd prefer it that way, so to open the gate would be to slur their honor and stain their character with base accusations of cowardice. Their sworn purpose is to take risks for the cause, not the other way around.


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## ItsPug (Apr 5, 2009)

Option C.

Shoot the idiot who left the bloody gates open in the first place. What use is a fortress with its gates unbarred?


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Close the gates cause those PDF troopers could be infected by Genesteallers.


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

Close the gates and tell the troops outside to fight then kill them for they are comprimised


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Leave the gates open to let the troops in. Throw the elfdar child off the wall from scenario one to distract the tyranids to allow minimal time to close the gates.


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## Betawing (Jul 25, 2009)

For the first Scenario: I’d take the child and 
1. _Definitely take the small child (like very young child) and keep it for my retinue, but there then comes the xenos loving facture if you get caught, which you eventually will._
or
2. _Give it to my superiors for I am an Inquisitor and must learn the weaknesses of the enemy._
For the second Scenario: 
If I’m an Inquisitor: _I would shut the gates in the 41st millennium and there is only WAR and SACRIFCE. So in order to save the fortress then close the gates, for normal mortals can only do so much against the Swarm._

(I know you didn’t ask this but . . . I must say it as well)
If I was my Space Marine’s Chapter Master: _Then I would know that to stand and fight with my battle brothers is the only way to win and that those that stand behind fortifications are weak in themselves. So I would keep the Gate open till the PDF arrived and were safely inside. For there is only honor in this way of fighting. But it wouldn’t be a big deal that right before the PDF got to the gate we closed it and laughed then of course opened fire on the whole swarm of units below our positions._



I really like these Scenarios, keep it up.


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## cain the betrayer (Oct 12, 2009)

for the first senario 1 would torture the litlle xenos and after that feed her to some snakes with slow working painful deatly poison
and on senario 2 i would close the gates and keep firing on the horde of nids with everything we have got even if we kill some pdf and if a one of the pdf make it alive i would personaly gun them down because of risk of infection


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## vortex_13 (Apr 17, 2010)

Scenerio 1 : I'd keep the child and raise it as a part of my retinue. Having an Eldar as a flunky seems like a good deal.

Scenerio 2: Gates stay closed. No way is 2 squads worth exposing the entire fortress.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

cain the betrayer said:


> for the first senario 1 would torture the litlle xenos and after that feed her to some snakes with slow working painful deatly poison
> and on senario 2 i would close the gates and keep firing on the horde of nids with everything we have got even if we kill some pdf and if a one of the pdf make it alive i would personaly gun them down because of risk of infection


Aren`t you a nice fellow?:biggrin:

I would close the gates. I really didn`t find it to be a difficult decision this time.

Scenario Three:

You are a space marine. During a purge of an infested city, your squad was forced to split up, leaving you with only one squadmate for backup. An earlier confrontation has left you with prescious little reserves of ammo. In the underhive, searching for signs of genestealer infestation you come across a small family of refugees. A mother and two children for example.

Suddenly your battle brother comes under attack by two genestealers further up the tunnel, about a dozen metres away.You run about six metres to his aid when a screech draws your attention. A third genestealer has targeted the refugees, and has already closed to about the same distance from them as you. You have a clear shot, but it might be unwise to risk the ammo for one stealer. The alien will probably reach the civilians before you do. 



With barely a split second to decide, would you...

1: Take the shot. What are space marines for if not to defend humanity?

2: Try valiantly to beat the alien to them on foot, conserving your ammo but risking their lives.

3: The civilians are as good as lost. Save your battle brother, he will do more good in the long run.

???


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Take the shot, i couldn't possibly outspeed the stealer. Also chances are my battle brother will be able to fend them off for the 2 seconds needed to deal with the 3rd stealer.

And if i tried to save my BB i die as the 3rd stealer assualted my ass.


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## Betawing (Jul 25, 2009)

Scenario Three:

As a Space Maine I would shoot one bolter round at the genestealer hopefully catching it off guard just long enough to race to a better position to defeat it and protect the humans. But at the same time I would open up a vox link to my Battle-Brother to alert him of the situtation. Upon defeating the first genestealer engaged I would assit my battle brother.


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## cain the betrayer (Oct 12, 2009)

i would asist the batle brother and kill the genestealers and let the human family die
because what are they good for and after that i would turn to chaos 

btw thanks for the compliment i think i would go great with 40k if where real


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## vortex_13 (Apr 17, 2010)

Open fire on the genestealer attacking the refugees. It won't take too long to tear through them and come for me and my battle brother anyway. Best to kill it quickly now then assist my brother.


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## Platypus5 (Apr 7, 2010)

I would use her as a bargaining chip against the eldar.

"Get the fuck off my planet or I blow her brains out."

Combination of A and C.

Aim one shot at the genesteeler (hopefully crippling it.) Then using the rest to save the battle brother.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I would take it, and raise its as yet another tool to use against Chaos.


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## LordofFenris (Mar 10, 2010)

Hmm......

Senario #1: Turn the Xenos over to my superiors. Only a better understanding of their filth will allow us to eradicate them from the galaxy.

Senarios #2: Close the gates. As a member of the Imperial Guard, it is your duty to serve the Imperium and if required, give your life. Fight to the death and bring glory to the Emperor!

Senario #3: Because I am a Salamander, Vulkan decreed that all human life is to be protected. Save the refugees first. Not to mention, my Battle Brother is more than a match for that xenos scum. If he falls, I will honor his sacrifice.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

For the third scenario; as a space marine it is my duty to be willing to lay my life down for the rest of humanity. By turning my back on the three when they need protecting most, I am turning my back on my oaths to protect these people.

I would lay down fire at this third enemy, charging it as well in the event that it manages to dodge my shots and keep moving forward. My battle-brother may or may not be able to handle the two genestealers, but I would expect him to keep the innocent safe were our places reversed.


Unless, of course, I am part of a chapter that puts more value on the lives of its own than those they are charged to protect. If that were the case, I would let the genestealer have them while coming to the aid of my brother, he and I can fight the three better than he might fight the two on his own.



In this scenario, which chapter is a bit important regardless of how we feel. If I was a member of a chapter that did not value the lives of non astartes then my ethics and morals would probably shift a bit.


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## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

scenario #1 Kill the eldar scum. just because its young doesn't mean that it is viable as a member for your retinue even if you raise it. and second of all. its Xeno Scum not worthy to scrape its self off your boot.
scenario #2 close the gates, because the guardsmen are already dead.
scenario #3 take the shot. if i didn't i would be just as good as a traitor marine. the Emperor made the SM's to unite, and to defend his people, humanity. that and fighitng and deing in the service of the Emperor is an honour.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Darkreever, I was generalising, chapter specifics don`t really matter. 

I will take your first reply at face value, simply because it occurred to you first so must hold greater value in your own mind. (psych!)

I`m not a psychologist. It`s just an interest of mine. :biggrin:


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> I will take your first reply at face value, simply because it occurred to you first so must hold greater value in your own mind. (psych!)


Honestly, no I just wrote them down in that order for no particular reason; between the two I'll stick with it though because its in line with a general view for the chapter.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

1. I would turn the child over to the eldar in return for them cease there invasion. They would more then likely comply just to save one eldar life.

2 From a military standpoint close the gate. You do not want comprimise your base to the enemy regardless. Sounds wrong but war isnt pretty

3 Take the shot that stealer will come for you next and your BB is trained to fight the civ.s are not


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Scenario Four.

You`re an imperial guardsman stationed at a stronghold near the front line. Lately things have been quiet, the enemy has not attacked for a while.

Through actions performed by an unspecified person (wink) you find yourself in a position to do the hippity dippity with an attractive young technician. She`s as eager as you are and the two of you slip into a nearby broom closet or some such.

Just as you are about to begin, the alarm sounds and every soldier is ordered to his post. She looks at you longingly...

Would you:

1: Hell, she`s worth the execution. Make it long, and make it hard. :laugh:

2: To your post soldier. The Emperor`s enemies await their judgement.

3: Make it a quickie (to her disappointment) and hope the Commissar doesn`t notice.




I admit it. I`ve run out of serious ideas for the moment.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

As long as we make it through this fight, we'll be able to have some fun afterwords. Better to face possible death from the enemy, knowing that I'm protecting her; rather than definitely face execution for what could be seen as dereliction of duty or desertion.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Go to my post, when i get back from killing shit she'll be extra wild, nothing gets the blood pumping like a bit of slaying.


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

definatelt go to post and hope like hell we survive then do the hippity dippity long and hard


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I have to make the criteria a bit harder for the next one, I think.


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## elkhantar (Nov 14, 2008)

Yup, that one was waay too easy. Go to your post and fight for both, then have fun afterwards to celebrate


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> I have to make the criteria a bit harder for the next one, I think.


You could amend this one to "you have arranged a brief fling with this fine young filly, only you find out to your horror afterwards that she is the commisars daughter, and she is now pregnant. The commisar comes up to you and asks if you know who has gotten her pregnant, do you:

A) come clean to the commisar and promise to do your duty to her, never let her down ect ect.

B) lie to the commisar, blame it on the captain whom you dislike, and pray he believes you

c) commit suicide


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## Helvron (Jan 4, 2010)

To my post, i took an oath to defend the Emperor's relm, and his people. and its not like she's the only female i will run into during my life if i survive. that and she has her own post to report to.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Scenario 5:

IG again.
Flying in a convoy over enemy territory, you come under attack. All Valkyries and other carriers are shot down, and there are only three survivors.

You. (A guardsman) 

A Commissar reputed as a real hardass. :nono:

A female pilot who is the most gorgeous woman you have ever seen. :victory:

Fortunately the enemy seem to have assumed no survivors, leaving the three of you to make the trek across the desert and hope for safety. There is roughly ten kilometres of sand in any given direction, and your supplies are very limited. In addition, your leg is damaged, possibly broken and difficult to walk on.
The Commissar orders that you advance. The pilot suggests a fall back is more tactically advisable. 

Would you...

1: Follow orders... What does it matter at this point? 

2: Kill the Commissar when he isn`t looking. Take your chances at getting home with the pilot. :wink:

3: Kill them both so the supplies last longer. :spiteful:


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

10 kilometers? hell i'd follow orders. then when we get to wherever we're goin i look like a hardass for walking through th desert and the commisar might be impressed enough to make me part of his entourage. And the pilot will be like "oh, you so strong, sucky sucky five dollar"


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

lawrence96 said:


> 10 kilometers? hell i'd follow orders. then when we get to wherever we're goin i look like a hardass for walking through th desert and the commisar might be impressed enough to make me part of his entourage. And the pilot will be like "oh, you so strong, sucky sucky five dollar"


Bearing in mind you just crawled out of a plane crash, not a shower. You`d be wounded and possibly bleeding internally. I`ll edit the original post.


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

id follow orders, if you've gone that far why stop now.


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## Snowy (Jul 11, 2009)

If I was going on normal logic I would retreat.
But if I was going on the 40K "Super Imperium" logic I'd follow orders.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

having checked out the new condition i'd still do the same thing- Forward for the Emperor! If it's the same distance in any direction i'd go to where i knew there'd be medics, and where i wouldn't be shot for deserting.

Afterall if i did go back to base there'd be a commisar who'd say "and why did you retreat?" the infantry man's handbook thing says "if trapped behind enemy lines sell your life dearly". So if i killed the commisar at the crash site the one back at base would kill me for retreating!


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

kill them both and attack the front


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

1) Take her in train her to be a member of my retinue. If she reverts to her eldar ways torture her.

2) Close the gate have the PDF make a barricade out of the chimeras have snipers help pick off nids that get close to them and shoot the S*** out of the rest

3) First I would try to throw my knife(what ever cc i have) at if that misses or doesn't kill it shoot it then back up team mate while protecting the civz

4) Quicky report if I survive all nightlong

5) Kill commisar go with the pilot if supplies become low kill pilot


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