# Chaos Legion codices



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Over on Dakka Dakka . com, someone mentioned Chaos Codeices much like Black Templars etc to be on the GW to-do list.

I'm not sure how true this is, (or if its already been mentioned here)

so...Have a look

Can't post link as im in a rush, so could someone have a look for me?

regards


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

nothing even in the pipeline for the CSM codexes, don't get your hopes up, 
it's a shame i'll admit but I doubt we'll see any for the next couple of years at least


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## fett14622 (Apr 29, 2008)

That would make sense for GW to do that just for the fact that there are several SM codices. 

My guesses would be Alpha legion, Tsons, Emperors Children, and Death Guard.

But I wonder if they will be PDF DL or for sale.


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## sethador (May 31, 2009)

in addition i think the iron warriors and word bearers deserve one 
but black legion can still use anything from any ''legion'' codex#


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## Chaoz94 (Jun 17, 2008)

personally 
a codex to all 4 cult legions , (world eaters , death guard , emperor's children , thousand sons) 
should come first
then they do the undivided legions 
(word bearers, night lords , iron warriors ,alpha legion)
and just say to people to use the current csm codex for black legion

well thats how i would do it

chaoz


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## Jordo02 (Nov 21, 2008)

Chaoz94 said:


> personally
> a codex to all 4 cult legions , (world eaters , death guard , emperor's children , thousand sons)
> should come first
> then they do the undivided legions
> ...


Exactly. The current one would almost work for any undivided army I think.


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## Chaoz94 (Jun 17, 2008)

Jordo02 said:


> Exactly. The current one would almost work for any undivided army I think.


forgot to add this but maybe they should redo the current csm codex to have cultists aswell 
oh and i think that the iron warriors should get something special like maybe a 
looted crusader/redeemer , a thunderfire cannon , or iron clad dread/land speeders 
and should be forced to take a warsmith as hq only but make him the only model to be able to have different marks

chaoz


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## Jordo02 (Nov 21, 2008)

Chaoz94 said:


> forgot to add this but maybe they should redo the current csm codex to have cultists aswell
> oh and i think that the iron warriors should get something special like maybe a
> looted crusader/redeemer , a thunderfire cannon , or iron clad dread/land speeders
> and should be forced to take a warsmith as hq only but make him the only model to be able to have different marks
> ...


Perfect perfect perfect. Although, I want landspeeders in my undivided army too. lol So not ONLY iron warriors. =)


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## nightfish (Feb 16, 2009)

Chaoz94 said:


> forgot to add this but maybe they should redo the current csm codex to have cultists aswell
> oh and i think that the iron warriors should get something special like maybe a
> looted crusader/redeemer , a thunderfire cannon , or iron clad dread/land speeders
> and should be forced to take a warsmith as hq only but make him the only model to be able to have different marks
> ...


Forcing people to include models is not a good thing.

Iron Warriors would never 'loot' anything.

If were being anal, cultists should be WB or AL only

Lets have everything SM have...alternatively, buy the SM codex and models, paint up Iron Warrors and ta da!

And finally...as someone has already said, unless GW are going to surprise us silly, there is no chance of legion specific codexes anytime soon. I would want them to fix the generic list first.


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## exsulis (Jul 17, 2008)

If GW did legions it would most likely be 1 for each of the gods, and they'd leave it at that as the rest could still be made(all of them can be made) with the current CSM dex though a cultist book would be the most different, and might draw the largest sales.

But I can't imagine them doing a new CSM dex when there are dexes out there that need a whole lot more love, when CSM is one of the top 3 power dexes atm.


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## Chaoz94 (Jun 17, 2008)

nightfish said:


> Forcing people to include models is not a good thing.
> 
> Iron Warriors would never 'loot' anything.
> 
> ...


or maybe have the warsmith as an upgrade for the chaos lord / or they could do the same principle as they did for the emp's champ in the BT codex

if IW never loot anything then how do you explain basiliks in iron warriors armies etc 

i could agree with the cultists 


we dont have to have everything , maybe just a tank or the thundefire cannon instead of summoned deamons to distinguish themselves from the other legions

chaoz


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## Khorne's_Chosen (Mar 29, 2009)

An official World Eaters codex ? It would be a DREAM !!


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## nightfish (Feb 16, 2009)

Chaoz94 said:


> if IW never loot anything then how do you explain basiliks in iron warriors armies etc


Produce it on forgeworlds. It only the chimera chassis with a large gun.


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## Trevor Drake (Oct 25, 2008)

True, if the Iron Warriors were able to bring a FW that made bassies into the warp or some other form of making it work out, then everything is golden.

Personally, I want to see Night Lords make a comeback, they are rather few and far between at the moment.


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

As much as I would love an entire codex devoted to the Emperor's Children, I think a big SM sized codex that covers all nine traitor legions would be a much better solution all around.


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## Zondarian (Nov 17, 2007)

I can tell you that they have been strongly hinted at. I don't have the link but Jarvis ( I think thats his name) Basically said the 4th Ed CSM dex was shit and that it would be done better next time, he then went on to suggest that they would be legion dexes.


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## Insane Psychopath (Dec 21, 2006)

Jerives told me that Games Day & that the UKGT while looking that my own IW army last year that there is going to be a Codex Legion. But it not high up on there list of "to do".

We already got a list from Games Day Spain on what due out over the next two year (possible add on a half as well depend on add on (Apoclypse, City Fight, Planet strike srot of things) as thing can & will change).

Only time it will be release is if there is time.

So bottem line is, don't exspect codex Legion any time soon (Dark Eldar & Wolves more important & have waited the longest out of any other codex). But there is one that is roughly being planned. As said I would not exspect this until after two years & a bit.

IP


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## scruff (Mar 3, 2008)

My preferred order:
- Codex: Iron Warriors - Mix a SM force with an IG Armoured Company, and what do you get?
- Codex: Brotherhood of Shadow - Alpha Legion and Word Bearers are far too similar to have wholly separate 'full codexes' so they need to be combined. Different styles for the different operatives
- Codex: Cult Codexes - Nuff Said. Separate, of course, but still there for completion
- Codex: Black Legion - AKA: Basic CSM book
- Codex: Others... - Forget lol


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## KarlFranz40k (Jan 30, 2009)

Meh, personally I'm content to mix around with army themes, and if I find some pattern that I want to make competitive but the CSM dex won't let me, I'll use a loyalist codex and the "counts as" rule. Like chaos chosen, only 1 attack? Thats a joke! Substitute for vanguard veterans acting as elite night lord raptors, use your imagination, it doesnt have to look official, as long as it looks good!


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I want to see Traits make a return. Chaos Traits? Chaos Doctrines? Yes fucking please.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Jordo02 said:


> Exactly. The current one would almost work for any undivided army I think.


Yeah any undivided army that contains lashing flying princes, plague marines, zerkers, and obliterators. Which Alpha legion has none of any.

The current dex is less than the minimum needed to build undivided legion lists. To say anything otherwise is to spit in the eyes of legionnaires.

Honestly I'd prefer just one solid book with all the legions with their special rules inside it. Otherwise certain armies might get the shaft(Let's assume iron warriors get dicked, as is their just due since everyone hates them. How many people would that piss off?) With a larger book(Which seems to be the trend) we'd have less focus, but maybe we'd be able to salvage a solid list that more people are okay with.


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## Chaoz94 (Jun 17, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> Yeah any undivided army that contains lashing flying princes, plague marines, zerkers, and obliterators. Which Alpha legion has none of any.
> 
> The current dex is less than the minimum needed to build undivided legion lists. To say anything otherwise is to spit in the eyes of legionnaires.
> 
> Honestly I'd prefer just one solid book with all the legions with their special rules inside it. Otherwise certain armies might get the shaft(Let's assume iron warriors get dicked, as is their just due since everyone hates them. How many people would that piss off?) With a larger book(Which seems to be the trend) we'd have less focus, but maybe we'd be able to salvage a solid list that more people are okay with.


true though i hope lash is removed
because even though im a chaos marine player i absolutely hate the power as its too cheesy for me 

chaoz


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## drummerholt1234 (May 27, 2009)

I think that they should do it like they did the space marine codex with reasonably priced special characters that give the traits of the chapter/legion to all models in the army.


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## BrotherYorei (May 9, 2009)

i think they should do one for each god and have the chaos' original codex as undivided.


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## drummerholt1234 (May 27, 2009)

Like one for each god and then a undivided one with Special Characters for those particular "special" undivided armies. That would be cool!


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## space cowboy (Apr 3, 2009)

Maybe I am the only one, but I am starting to move towards the side opposing the special characters thing. I don't like having to take the special character to get the legion/chapter trait. I would rather it be more thematic across the whole army than that.

Thanks,
Howard


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## exsulis (Jul 17, 2008)

Zondarian said:


> I can tell you that they have been strongly hinted at. I don't have the link but Jarvis ( I think thats his name) Basically said the 4th Ed CSM dex was shit and that it would be done better next time, he then went on to suggest that they would be legion dexes.


That's funny as the CSM is his template, and his design theory was the one enforced for the last few armies in 4th up until the Ork dex. So J.J. has his head up somewhere :angel:

I hate the having to take a special HQ. Traits if thought out isn't a bad idea but it can be abused if they add too much.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

My Ideal Chaos Marines Codex...

Well, I'd say my preferred way to go would be to have the Codex cover Black Legion - as pretty much the Ultramarines of Chaos - and Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers and Iron Warriors each with their own special rules (e.g. Cultists for WBs and AL, extra armour for IWs etc.). Those four Legions each had special rules in the previous Codex, and I've always thought it colossally sucked for fans and players of those four to have those taken away in the new one.

Also, it _really_ needs to have individual stats for Greater and Lesser Daemons of each of the Four Ruinous Powers; IMHO one of the biggest failings of the current Codex was its reduction of everything down to bland Generic Daemons. I have no _clue_ why someone thought that was a good idea, since it robbed a vital part of the very nature of Chaos Marines of its essential flavour and variety. Yes, you can use a (for example) Great Unclean One model as a Greater Daemon, but it's not the same as having proper Nurgle stats for it. 

_Then_ give the Death Guard, World Eaters, Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children a mini-Dex each.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

If we can get a competitive list out of the alpha legion being in the undivided book, I'm all four ruinous powers being represented in additional codexes. As is, the undivided have NO representation and the ruinious powers get icons and cult troops.

And yeah the 4th edition codex is ass. Just a big ol' bag of poorly thought out ass.

Anyone have any verifiable rumors or should I start infiltrating around the internets?


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

i like the idea of a codex for each legion with a specific god, tsons, EC Death, and world eaters(cept world eaters arent rly a legion anymore). but yeah if it takes them half a year to release one new codex...psh forget about it being soon. especially since the majority of fans would say other races are due first. personally if they started coming out with them after the new dark eldar codex i think it would be sweet. by-pass demon hunters, sisters and demons, chyeah.


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## space cowboy (Apr 3, 2009)

exsulis said:


> I hate the having to take a special HQ. Traits if thought out isn't a bad idea but it can be abused if they add too much.


Actually, I don't think that you need a trait system, you just need to create how the baseline legions/chapters operate, make sure that no one legion/chapter is clearly superior to any other, and then if someone wants to create their own chapter, they just pick the one from which they want theirs to be a derivative. Much more balanced, that way you don't get the dumb 4th edition SM problem of someone taking a drawback that isn't really a drawback.

Thanks,
Howard


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

Chaoz94 said:


> personally
> a codex to all 4 cult legions , (world eaters , death guard , emperor's children , thousand sons)
> should come first
> then they do the undivided legions
> ...


^ I agree with something like this ^

"Legions of Chaos" Codex, but dont split them into 2 separate for the cults and undivided. Just do them all, thats what they should do for the SM ones as well. A codex for all the other SM armies instead of one codex for each.


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## Shadowvast (Jun 11, 2008)

Jervis mentioned this last year at Baltimore GD....I asked him point blank and he said that chaos not getting the response that it should, because the whole, and I quote "trilogy" was not out yet. He then elaborated on that as the renegades or "undivided" book we have now, the daemons, and the upcoming but way off "cult" book, which was mentioned as a single book with a focus on each power....not legions. Assuming that is still the plan, I wouldn't look for it until late 2011, as we have too much other stuff in the rumored pipepline before them.:ireful2:

** EDIT**

Don't forget this was more than a year ago, and plans change for a bunch of different reasons. That was then plan then, but is it now?


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Shadowvast said:


> Jervis mentioned this last year at Baltimore GD....I asked him point blank and he said that chaos not getting the response that it should, because the whole, and I quote "trilogy" was not out yet. He then elaborated on that as the renegades or "undivided" book we have now, the daemons, and the upcoming but way off "cult" book, which was mentioned as a single book with a focus on each power....not legions. Assuming that is still the plan, I wouldn't look for it until late 2011, as we have too much other stuff in the rumored pipepline before them.:ireful2:
> 
> ** EDIT**
> 
> Don't forget this was more than a year ago, and plans change for a bunch of different reasons. That was then plan then, but is it now?


If it's just about the 'cults' than I wouldn't look for it at all. Not even if it came out.

"Undivided" is not cult troops with shitty pirates mixed it for flavor. I don't think a single person in that studio recognizes that undivided means no gods. Not icons of gods, marks of gods, or troops of gods. That is the exact opposite to what "undivided" chaos is.

Maybe they are trying to flatten chaos marines out? Maybe the established fluff next edition is that we're all renegades from loyalist parties? Eventually we'll simply become a divergent codex of loyalist marines that just barely operate out of the norm. Awesome.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

undivided just means they praise no one god more than the other. they have no preference about which chaos god is the "best". they follow all of them equally, and will take the advantages given to them by whichever god chooses to favor them at the time.

now that goes for actual chaos forces, like legions

for the "renegade" chapters, or pirates or w/e they are, then undivided probably does mean they dont praise anybody.


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## Rixnor (Dec 23, 2007)

Honestly a new codex is not necessary. A very simple FAQ could be added to the current codex would take care of all the problems:

In place of the text that starts with "Welcome, Favoured of the Gods....." on page 3 and ends with the text "...Printed in Canada." on page 104; 

replace with the text found in Codex Chaos Space Marines copyright 2002 starting on page 2 "Welcome to Codex Chaos Space Marines....." and ends with the text "...no Veteran abilities" on page 64. 

Problem Solved!!!

Elysian


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Yeah, Waffles, Chaos Undivided armies aren't Markless, Iconless, Daemonless forces. Or at least they don't have to be.

All an Undivided force is is one that doesn't prefer to worship any particular God over another. It's fine for specific units in an army to pray to, say, Nurgle before the battle and carry his Icon to receive his blessing for a battle or something. That doesn't make the unit in question Nurgle worshippers. There are plenty of Chaos Marines that ask for assistance from each of the Gods in turn over the course of their lives.

On top of this, it's possible for an army that's otherwise undedicated to any particular God to include some Cult units. A Black Legion army, for example, led by a Champion without any particular Mark of Chaos could most certainly have a unit of Khorne Berserkers join his warband.

A force of Chaos Marines only really becomes a Divided one when the majority of Marines choose to permanently dedicate themselves to a particular power.

As for the Cult book... I'm really not too happy about that one. They're going to essentially "undo" all they've done toward having Chaos players take a mix of units rather than dedicating themselves completely to one power. While it's good news to an extent as it allows armies such as the Death Guard or Thousand Sons to be represented accurately at last, I think it's going to seriously confuse things. Besides, it'll only be a matter of time before the power gamers decide on the "best" power to worship, and we'll see the same Khorne/Whatever list posted a zillion times in the army list forums... ack.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Yeah, Waffles, Chaos Undivided armies aren't Markless, Iconless, Daemonless forces. Or at least they don't have to be.


Perhaps I misspoke.
Alpha legion armies are markless, iconless, and usually daemonless. Last edition an undivided squad couldn't even be marked without becoming pledged to that god, though honestly, I agree that maybe they could favor one god over another. But at that point, it kind of defeats the whole undivided thing.



Katie Drake said:


> All an Undivided force is is one that doesn't prefer to worship any particular God over another. It's fine for specific units in an army to pray to, say, Nurgle before the battle and carry his Icon to receive his blessing for a battle or something. That doesn't make the unit in question Nurgle worshippers. There are plenty of Chaos Marines that ask for assistance from each of the Gods in turn over the course of their lives.


Last edition I thought it did. I thought that was the one good thing out of our codex, the option to mark a unit but not pledge them to a certain god.
I could see the unit in question becoming a problem fluffwise, bringing the icon into battle and outperforming the fellow soldiers would lead more and more of them to that certain god, resulting in schism.



Katie Drake said:


> On top of this, it's possible for an army that's otherwise undedicated to any particular God to include some Cult units. A Black Legion army, for example, led by a Champion without any particular Mark of Chaos could most certainly have a unit of Khorne Berserkers join his warband.


This I most certainly agree with. It's established in the fluff that cult troops are bought by undivided.



Katie Drake said:


> A force of Chaos Marines only really becomes a Divided one when the majority of Marines choose to permanently dedicate themselves to a particular power.


Which is what eventually happens when what I detailed above happens. Unless you buy a frothing maniac squad of zerkers, or a charisma-less plague marine squad, marines in the force will most likely start to favor the icon that does the best, and stand under it, rather than the lord in charge.(Even if he is a t4 5+ invul sissy)



Katie Drake said:


> As for the Cult book... I'm really not too happy about that one. They're going to essentially "undo" all they've done toward having Chaos players take a mix of units rather than dedicating themselves completely to one power. While it's good news to an extent as it allows armies such as the Death Guard or Thousand Sons to be represented accurately at last, I think it's going to seriously confuse things. Besides, it'll only be a matter of time before the power gamers decide on the "best" power to worship, and we'll see the same Khorne/Whatever list posted a zillion times in the army list forums... ack.


I think it'd be great to finally have competitive tzeentch and have dedicated units that don't halfass with icons.

That being said I'm entirely uninterested in having a paint-by-numbers army like world eaters, or any of the "godfull" marines.

Plus the whole power swing is going to suck, I entirely agree.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I think they should go back to CSM 4th Edition. Where all the Cults and Undivided Legions had there special rules and units/gear all in the Original Codex. Even SMs 5th have small special rules with the riginal Foundings and Crimason Fist. What the hell?


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## exsulis (Jul 17, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> I think they should go back to CSM 4th Edition. Where all the Cults and Undivided Legions had there special rules and units/gear all in the Original Codex. Even SMs 5th have small spacial rules with the original Foundings and Crimason Fist. What the hell?


That was actually a 3rd ed dex not a 4th since that is what the current dex currently is. And that dex was too obusive for GW to consider going back to the way it was, fluffy but obusive. An in theory the Cults book could be more like a ani-guard army.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

I dont think we need a new codex. In the 3rd codex each legion had its own page or two with special wargear and powers. Some had extra units like the cultists. All gw need to do is release a few new faq with these changes.
I was making a emperors children list today and I was trying not use mass noise marines. I made a list but it lacked something all i needed to make it more like a EC list was sonic blasters on chosen and a doom siren on the champ. Not saying those changes would be balanced but just saying they only need to change a few things.


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## exsulis (Jul 17, 2008)

Yeah, the second 3rd edition dex had more options but it got away from GW, and made the mess. Also, I never want to see another siren bomb again.


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## InquisitorTidusSolomon (Mar 7, 2009)

My two cents...

I think they should have one Undivided Codex, which consists of Black Legion, Word Bearers, Night Lords, Alpha Legion, and Iron Warriors. This would contain rules for all these Legions, as well as their special characters. However, they would NOT be allowed to field Khârn, Lucius, Typhus, or Ahriman, so as to make the Legion Codexes have some relevance. 

Then make a Codex for World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, and Emperor's Children, who DO get the aforementioned special four characters, but however can NOT field Abbadon, Huron Blackheart, or Fabius Bile. Then perhaps give the legions some special rules to represent them.


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

Wow rly? Because i thought we should have a god damn aweful codex where you can mix everything up and it doesnt matter...oh wait.


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## thatCavguyc8d (Jan 6, 2009)

the new CL book should be like the 3rd ed one. it should include all of the legions, what ever their gods, while paying close intention to all of the rules which made each legion unique and fluff. Like, for eample a sleenishi army's chaos lord should have the option to take a doom siren and a Nurgle squad of choosn should have the option of getting blight grenades and so on.


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

i think most of us are agreed that there is no real news here. it has been rumoured since before the release of the current C: CSM that the design team would like to do another one or more codexes focus on some aspects of the legions. the only thing that has become more solid is their intent to do so. there are still no dates or goals being talked about.

this thread has devolved. its cool to wish-list our hopes for future CSM releases, but it certainly isn't news. it would be better if this discussion was moved or closed.



Gul Torgo said:


> As much as I would love an entire codex devoted to the Emperor's Children, I think a big SM sized codex that covers all nine traitor legions would be a much better solution all around.


no offence to you Gul Torgo, because you certainly aren't the only one to talk like this, you just managed to say it more succinctly, but i actually think that its the sort of attitude which makes the game worse. when we, the players, show a stunning lack of imagination and adventurousness, by saying 'i can't see why different Legions could be different, nor would i want to play with them if they were', GW actually listen. its one of the few things they do listen to.

armies are bland and insipid in comparison to many other gaming systems and certainly imcomparison to the imagination and talent of those on the design team. i find it sad that we are so willing to settle for so little.


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## fhilicrane (Apr 28, 2009)

I think it would be a cool Idea to make CSM codexs that were specific to the chaos gods, Nurgle, Khorne, Etc...

But to be honest I also think it would be cool to have a Black Legion specific codex. I know they can use everything sense there leader is Abaddon himself. But i'm a littel one sided sense Black Legion is the army I play.

I also think it's time Abaddon got a new model.

CHAOS!


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## eqmddlh (Jun 19, 2009)

I believe that are armies that urgently need an update. That is the case of the Dark Eldar, who codex is ten years old and same thing can be said to most of their miniatures.


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