# Tactics versus Greater deamons



## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

I have had problems with Greater deamons especially keeper of secrets, against my elves. I have tryed shooting when I could see it, but all it dus is one and if I am lucky two wounds. The main problem is it has ASF with high Inishitive and is one mean spell caster, can I have some help please


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Curse of arrow attraction + Bolt Throwers would hurt it. A dragon might stand a chance against it, especially if it has already been weakened.


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

I don't know the stats for a Greater Demon (Western-ized term, baby!), so I can't lend you any specifics. I've also never faced a Greater Demon, so I can't speak through experience. But I'll be damned if I don't try to help another Elf player!

I'd have to make a few assumptions, first:
-This GD is High T, High S, High W, High WS. All of which I can assume to be higher than an Elf's stat lines.
-This GD doesn't care about psychology, and causes Fear or Terror, or something of the like.
-This GD is powerful in combat.
-This GD will not be running around by its lonesome.

With these assumptions, you have a tough cookie ahead of you, my friend.

I'd first look at it this way:
-Do you need to even deal with the GD?
-Can it be avoided?
-Can you stand a good chance to gain more Victory Points than what you would lose by entering combat with it?
-Can you even damage it in any phase?
-Do you have any units or characters that are kitted out for such a confrontation?

I'd imagine Caradryn, if all else fails, can Suicide Bomb it. That's an easy, but costly idea.

Another is a DoW cannon.

White Lions would likely chew it up. They'll take heavy losses, though, so you'd have to do some quick thinking to see if it is worth the points cost. Lose a unit of 15 WLs at a bit under 300pts for a 300pt model is very debatable. 500pts of WLs for a 300pt model is foolish.

Bolt Throwers. Damage it from range. You probably won't kill it without sacrificing too many points into your RBTs, but you should manage to weaken it if only slightly.

If it has Frenzy or something similar, lead it around with an Eagle or two.

Don't sacrifice your heavy hitters to something that will only bog them down. That is, Dragon Princes might be better off grinding through some other unit than a GD.

This is all I've got right now, but I hope you get my idea. All you need to do is weigh your options.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

It's Daemon. Always. And while we're on the subject, they're called Dwarfs, not Dwarves. Not that you mentioned Dwarfs (or -ves), but I just thought it bore mentioning once and for the record :grin:.

White Lions will get munched, on account of the Keeper's ASF. Too bad you don't run Druchii - a couple of Manbane Assassins should do nicely. As it stands, I'd say your best option is to shoot the bejeezus out of it with Bolt Throwers, and maybe some Magic Missiles for good measure. Or, as Skoll said,the Curse. Can Asur field four Bolt Throwers? That'd damn sure put a dent in the thing.

And if, when all's said and done, you can't take it out, just remember: there's no shame in losing to Daemons. They're just beardy, is all .


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

The stat line is available under the model at the GW site here if you don't have the armybook, but in addition to the powerful base stats they have ASF and one mean spell caster. Causes Terror, as well as this it can be equiped with I think it is called soul eater. Which means each wound he inflicts in combat, he heals wounds lost. So if I manage to hurt it, it will end up getting into combat with its 20 march and charge, so it will end up healing itself in the end. As well as this the daemon lore of slannesh is very horrid against low T elfs, as most of it is magic missiles and damaging.

Posting an entire stat line is against forum rules - squeek


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## zabo (Dec 19, 2008)

Ummmm I was going to say to bog it down with a bunch of spear dudes, but then I saw that it had movement 10, holy mother begeezus! your best bet is the bolt throwers.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

Initiative 10? You sure? I thought it was 8 or something. Bugrit. That means even the Assassins wouldn't do the job reliably. Ah well. Bolt throwers, bolt throwers, bolt throwers.


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

I'd put my money in Phoenix Guard, then. They can hold the thing up and will take half the casualties. That is, of course, if you MUST engage the Greater Demon ( <- Stubborn!).

Although Bolt Throwers are still going to be the best. Not to mention I'd assume it is difficult to field these things en masse, so your RBTs won't be too overworked by game's end.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I know in a game against a khorne Deamon I managed to put the most armoured character I could against it challenge it then hopefully survive the attacks then rely on combat res to win the combat it finally lost enough wounds most to instability to die. you just have to make the unit look irresistable to the Deamon,


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

sorry guys about the stat line, any way the army I am useing against the keeper has 2 RBT it is my 2000 point army. Do you think I should put in more


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Well you can't put in 2 RBT's in, they don't have 2 per Rare, as far as I'm aware.

An Archmage, with Annulian Crystal, and Great Eagle, and Reaver Bow (The Bolt Thrower One, anyway) will do wonders. It will shut him down, pretty easy. Battle Banner on the Phoenix Guard, Lion Chariots in the side. Impact Hits strike before ASF, so watch out afterwards though. 2 Should do the trick.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

High elfs can have 4 rares now. Thanks for the advise Vaz, I did not rearlise that Impact Hits strike before ASF. Nice thing to know


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

This is just genural advice-take the charge with a large block of heavy armoured infanty-20 ironbreakers lead by a thane with oath stone and a tricked out weapon+armour is a good example. then let combat res do the rest. i once got lucky, and got one trapped in a protracted combat with 20 dwarf warriors. not sure what unit HE can use though.


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## Trandoshanjake (Jul 22, 2008)

Dafistofmork said:


> This is just genural advice-take the charge with a large block of heavy armoured infanty-20 ironbreakers lead by a thane with oath stone and a tricked out weapon+armour is a good example. then let combat res do the rest. i once got lucky, and got one trapped in a protracted combat with 20 dwarf warriors. not sure what unit HE can use though.


Yah, because elven armies are just full of ironbreakers.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Yes, because he was using an anecdote on how to deal with them.

I could say that to deal with Greater Daemons, I have Chaos Warriors with Hand Weapons and Shields to hold the charge, with the Mark of Tzeentch. In the next phase, I charge in a Spawn, Hellcannon, Knight unit, Dragon Ogre Unit, or Chariot.

If, with a bit of thought, the High Elf player works out how they can use it, they find the next best things - Hence Phoenix Guard, despite the lower save, have an untouchable Ward Save, and can hold well, with certain bonuses - Magic Banners and the Like. Then in the side go their equivalent units - Stubborn White Lions, White Lion Chariots, Dragon Princes, etc.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

banner of battle would work well with the Phoenix Guard, and as well if a war banner is also with the unit you are talking, 3+ for ranks, D6 for the banner of battle, +2 war banner and banner +1 out numbering


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

You can only ever gain the Benefit of one Banner in any single combat.

So in Reality, you gain +3 for ranks, +D6 for Battle Banner, and +1 for outnumber. Also, +1 in the following turn for a Flank Charge (remember that only one can be got for a Flank charge).

Also, you must be aware of things such as Seekers etc - they are rapid, and although Str 3, will be able to stop those White Lion chariots from making an Impact - literally.

You might not cause the wounds (T6, Keeper of Secrets?) to kill him, but beating it in combat until the White Lions hit hard. And they do. Very.


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## xaiff101 (Jul 7, 2008)

The thing is that not most people take Spirit Swallower because of the cost... Also with M 10 he's most likely to get the charges before you. Combat resolution is a way to kill these big guys.
A lot of you are also assuming that you'll pass the terror tests. If he isn't jacking with your Ld hard... Then he's doing it wrong.
The best thing that you can do is try and shoot him down when you have the chance, time him up with cheap tarpits, or have him meet your big bad surprise.

Please do not post exact points costs of items, models or upgrades it is against forum rules - squeek


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## fosit of the emperor (Sep 26, 2008)

Vaz said:


> You can only ever gain the Benefit of one Banner in any single combat.


ive got a hunch that you are able to combine a regular stardard bearer (with war banner) and an army standard bearer (with banner of battle) 
correct me if im wrong


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

fosit of the emperor said:


> ive got a hunch that you are able to combine a regular stardard bearer (with war banner) and an army standard bearer (with banner of battle)
> correct me if im wrong


Indeed, unless its a special thing to do with Banner of Battle, I can't find anything that indicates that you can't have the effect of both, or have to choose between them. Vas maybe getting it confused with one of the previous editions, which I think may have had something like that.

As per the rules, you get +1 normal standard, +1 BSB, and any bonuses for magical standards are added on top of that. You of course don't gain multiple SB bonuses if more than one unit is in combat, but the effects of magical banners still stack.


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