# Curiosity over Lost and the Damned



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I've just been curious lately over why nobody uses the lost and the damned rules from the eye of terror codex anymore even though it used to be extremely popular and everyone wishes it was legal, but is still able to make a 100% legal army list and has been for....well forever.

I know its harder to get hold of now, but in these days I also doubt that, just look how many people got illegal copies of the Marine and Guard codex, can it really be that hard to get one of the Eye of terror codex?
(not supporting people actually doing it, but is there really any point in pretending it didn't happen when lists for marines and guard and other codex's were coming out months before the codex)

so is it all down to people being Lazy and preferring to whine over something thats still legal but refuse to admit it in case they bruise there pride, or do too many people think Tournament rules apply to ALL 40k games?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Mainly because it was campaign based, and someone finally thought 'fuck balance, let's go with fluff.'

As it happens LatD came up with the best list in the Campaign book, but the rest of them weren't legal.

For example, Slayer Characters in the Storm of Chaos became nigh on unkillable, and then if you did, they still killed you back after you've sent them to an early grave. Not balanced at all, especially considering the Dwarves already overwhelming ability to have a competitive game, even with a non ranged list, and then throwing 80 Unbreakable Dwarves at an enemy, then you've got little balance. Archaons Horde- in 6th Edition, Chosen Knights were almost unstoppable, and without Peer, (but now with Dragon Princes, Cold One Knights, and Blood Knights, even the updated Chaos Knights aren't that special) and having 4 Units of 5 charge you and then 3 other Chaos Knights led by Archaon, you've just said goodbye balance.

However, many new players won't have access to that campaign book, and to stop the whining over how unfair it is, it's illegal. That's the main reason.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Vaz said:


> and to stop the whining over how unfair it is, it's illegal. That's the main reason.


says who though?, I've never seen GW officially sate it to be illegal

and I don't see how it was unfair, I enjoyed playing against hordes of Zombies, I think they should of been cheaper to make winning close to impossible, like it should be against a horde of the undead


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Ask every Red Shirt who's worked during that time. They'll say it's illegal. And boy would they not be working long when word got out they lost a sale for telling something was no longer legal.

Also, check most/all GW run competitions. It'll list the legal books, or the illegal ones. The former list won't show Eye of Terror, and the second list will.

That answers GW stance on it.

Personally, I have no issue with it, and like playing against it, but in a tournament, and someone came with an illegal list, I wouldn't play them, regardless of whether they've brought a 2000pt List to a 1500pt Tournament, or an illegal 1500pt army list.

Friendly games, no issue. But while playing under GW sanctioned rules, then you do what they say.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

It is a great list and I wish it was still legal or GW updated it a bit but we know that wont happen.
The problem I find with it is when you use the CSM characters/unit as it talks about getting upgrades. All these upgrades are from the old 3.5 Chaos codex which many do not have and it gets to be a bit of a problem when you have to use a old codex.
I tried making a list using upgrades from the new CSM but it does not really work.
Of course you can just use it as a stand alone list and not use CSM or IG units.


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

I still have a lost and damned army and some tournaments still permit them although not GW ones. It is a shame as they were fun, relatively competative and offered alot on the modelling front. In many ways it would not kill GW to produce an updated codex for what was the most popular of the armageddon and Eye of terror books, especailly as there are plenty of models already out there to support it but I doubt it is on their agenda.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Vaz said:


> Ask every Red Shirt who's worked during that time. They'll say it's illegal.


a red shirt.....seriously
Also, check most/all GW run competitions. It'll list the legal books, or the illegal ones. The former list won't show Eye of Terror, and the second list will.[/quote]
but GW tourney/competitions rules don't mean squat outside said tournament/comp


Talos said:


> The problem I find with it is when you use the CSM characters/unit as it talks about getting upgrades. All these upgrades are from the old 3.5 Chaos codex which many do not have and it gets to be a bit of a problem when you have to use a old codex.


not really a problem though, Agitators ain't worth giving wargear too, and arch heretics can be Chaos LT's or sorcerers, by raw sorcerers still exist in the codex so take them, aspiring champions ain't worth giving gear too just to get LD10


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

Lost and the Damned are my current army, along with my Traitor Guard. I am having a lot fun building and playing with them, and since I rarely play in GW stores and I have absolutely no interest in tournaments, whether the army is actually legal or not isn't much of an issue for me or the guys I game with. 

Some kind of updated rules would be nice though, it is kinda hard to use it with the new Chaos codex, especially when I want to use the new IG book too. I guess that is why I love Apocalypse, an official, standalone codex would be awesome though

I really don't understand why GW don't fully support this army. All they would need to do is write a new codex, maybe bring out a box of mutants (even though making your own is a lot of fun) and we have a new army, all the other units could use models from the Imperial Guard and Chaos range (I use a lot of Skaven and Fantasy stuff too).


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Siege said:


> I really don't understand why GW don't fully support this army. All they would need to do is write a new codex


they don't even need that much effort, just copy and paste lots of stuff into a white dwarf to make an army list and that'll do.

but then I guess if they did that they would have to sacrifice a few pages not showing space marines off


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

Damnit i just reread my Eye of Terror codex and the Lost and damned list is awesome it would fit my Traitor guard so much more than the just using the IG codex and painting them a different colour.
It would only take a few changes to make it fine for 5ed. They just need to make some small changes as we are using the new Chaos Space Marine codex and also change the Transport prices to match the newest codex. Reword a few rules and we would be fine. But yea I guess they need those 4 pages in WD for more marines.

I dont understand why they dont I swear you buy more models for a Lost and damned army. To make my mutants I buy around 3 box sets.


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

Yeah I agree even a white dwarf list would be ideal. 

Talos you are absolutely right. I have bought boxes of Orks, Cadians, Zombies, the Chaos mutation sprues, some Skaven guys that I forget the name of, all to make up my Mutants. I think it would be a great way for GW to generate more sales without really having to do much at all. 

Has anybody got a homebrew list that they use? I was working on one of my own for a while but I guess I got caught up with other projects. I might have another look at it. Would anybody else be interested in contributing ideas?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I can do one better than a homebrewn.

http://www.2shared.com/file/5848152/370ce39c/Codex_Lost_and_the_Damned.html

Enjoy!

Katie D


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

Is that the list from Codex: Eye Of Terror?


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

no its a new list made by The Tempus fugitives. Given it quick look over and so far it looks pretty good. A few things look very pricey and there are quite a few pointless units. Would you really pay 80 points to make your 20 beastmen T4 instead of T3 ? But other than that it has some great ideas and I may have to try it out in a game. Also the Leman russ looks abit strong. You can buy 3 for one HS slot and they dont count as a squadron so with a Arch Heretic you can have 9 russ that arnt ruined by squadron rules (although alot of points).


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

Cool. I'm a bit late checking back here but thanks for that Drake. Looks good.


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## aromasin (Jun 26, 2009)

When the campaign was on I knew they wouldn't keep mutants for long, so I bought 5 boxes of mutant sprue's. Paired with IG, skaven and zombie sprue's they've lasted years. I've still got two boxes unopened.

To answer Talos' first post, no you don't have to uses the old 3.5 codex, the 5th ed. works perfectly fine. I mainly just use 2000pt's of Plague Marines a Plague Zombies, paired with some Traitor Legion and Tanks. This is really just a mix of the Eye of Terror, IG and Chaos Marines Codex's. 

If you think about it, on average about 1/8 of people's games are friendly. It's a friendly army! A simple way to get past the tournament problem is simply not to play LatD!


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