# Advice for a newbie?



## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

So far, I am fairly disillusioned with Fantasy.
I've played 3 games of the previous edition (2 losses, 1 draw), and one with the current (another loss).
From what I have observed, Fantasy players are WaAC. They don't want to remind new players about rules until after it's too late, and when you ask what you might do differently with your army, they pretty much tell you to buy a new army (if they bother to answer at all).
Magic phase is now pretty OP, or it might just be my view after a match against Teclis and two other wizards. Ya. That would be like me fielding Abaddon and Kharn in the same army to play against a guy who's new to the hobby.
I'm not fond of an entire army that strikes first regardless of the opponent charging or not, either. Seems a bit... much.
So, other than selling my armies for maybe a quarter of what I paid, is there any constructive advice on how I can get into this game?


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

Dude I'm so sorry that you've had to experience n00b bombers. Anyone that fields Teclis is desperate for a victory and anyone that fields Teclis against someone just starting out is majorly lame!

I don't wanna risk multiple facepalms from the vets but I know what you mean about HE being crazy fast. However there are ways to beat HE regardless of their crazy always hits first, automatic re-rolls. I would recommend reading the BRB cover to cover but there's no way you would remember everything, unless your Vaz of course. 

What army are you playing against the elves?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Don't worry, I forget as well. 

I've not read the BRB aside for the background section (A*, actually, whoever wrote was not called Mat Ward, for sure), but the rest is utter tripe.

Yeah, the game has shunted towards that way now. There are blatant power builds in armies now - for example Warriors of Chaos has two - Trolls with Dragon Ogres, Valkia and Shrines, or Warriors of Chaos with Dragon Ogres, Valkia and Shrines. Empire has now devolved into Spamming 3 Mortars in 500pt Games, (for 225pts, no less), Skaven is utter broken due to sheer numbers of Slaves and unbalanced magic, and High Elves are fucking mental.

The bright side? Ogres are more useable now. The downside, every other one became more a power gamers paradise than before, making Ogres worse than they ever were before, aside from at small points levels.

Adam Troke, the bell end who wrote Army Book High Elves design process was "they strike first and stuff because they're really light and graceful and fast and very speedy and quick and agile and really light and fast and graceful and stuff". He was Mat Ward before Fantasy got Mat Ward.

There's no reason as to why they should have ASF (even in 7th, it was fucking bollocks, even worse than it was today, as it removed an entire phase from the game from both you and them - no more maneouvre for advantage etc - the game use to be won and lost on movement phase, really in 6th. In 7th, now that you've got units with 3 I5 S5 WS5 attacks costing 20pts apiece, even by 40K standards, that's broken, and in fantasy, the unit's stats are often lower respectively.

What can I say? Fuck it off until a better edition comes out, ask to play by 6th edition rulebooks (check out the Vampire Counts and Skaven books in those editions - they're prime stuff, compared the haemorrhage inducing reads that the new ones are (or rather, VC's were in 7th) are two suggestions which spring to mind, but I guess those aren't what you want to hear.

If you want to post up your list in the army section, I'll try and go through both sides of the argument, if you wish, saying what works in each army, while still trying to improve on what you already have.

But yeah, as mentioned, if he's running a Dual Archmage/Teclis with Archmage combo, there's not much you can do about that.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Gromrir Silverblade said:


> Dude I'm so sorry that you've had to experience n00b bombers. Anyone that fields Teclis is desperate for a victory and anyone that fields Teclis against someone just starting out is majorly lame!
> 
> I don't wanna risk multiple facepalms from the vets but I know what you mean about HE being crazy fast. However there are ways to beat HE regardless of their crazy always hits first, automatic re-rolls. I would recommend reading the BRB cover to cover but there's no way you would remember everything, unless your Vaz of course.
> 
> What army are you playing against the elves?


In the previous edition, I played Dark Elves vs. the old Vampire Counts, against a guy who had... no vampires. Weird. 
The new High Elves codex came out, I was still using the old Dark Elves codex. I got a draw only because the opponent whiffed too many die rolls. Not my preferred method of not losing.
The next game was a complete disaster for me. I killed a few people in different units.
Got the new Dark Elves codex, someone gave me their Bretonians, and I bought Vampire Counts.

The later game was my Bretonnians vs High Elves. I took out a unit of archers. Teclis took out my Knights of the Grail in his first Magic Phase. He got overpowering force or whatever it's called, and I learned that the mirror I bought for my 4th level Damsel was useless in this edition (acts as a Dispel Scroll, and inflicts a S6 wound on the mage). In his next Magic Phase he took out most of my Knights of the Realm unit. In his third he took out most of my Knights Errant. Always with overpowering force, never with any damage to him (unlike my Damsel, who died when she got it).


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Vaz: Phil Kelly wrote the background in the fantasy rulebook.

As for what has become of fantasy... Well, I've played since the heady days of 5th ed 'herohammer' and I have to say that fantasy as always seemed a bit more WAAC's than 40k.

Still, the best thing you can do is what myself and my group have done; tell those douchebag WAAC's, 'ard boyz dicks to go piss themselves... just don't play them, even if it means you simply collect & paint for most of this edition, things will get better!
I'd also be willing to bet that there's at least a few other disgruntled players in your area who also are looking for a more relaxed, less 'stomp on the other guy's balls' style game! Keep asking around and talking to other semi-regular/rarely seen faces at the local store/s and you'll find some mates who share your mindset.

The magic phase is simply yet another Matt Ward screw-up. It's perfectly fine when players aren't obsessed about breaking it. For example, my group & I have basically said 'no' to things like power scrolling the 'uber spells, as well as allowing ward saves to work on the insta-killing spells.
We also limit ourselves by not allowing Lv3/4 wizards untill higher pts levels where they're not nearly as game-changing.

I really feel that the biggest problem right now is the sheer lack of respect players have for eachother... The WAAC's style game and the attitude of "suck it up you whiney bitch or don't play competitively' is proof of this IMHO!


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

The really amusing (not) part is, all four games were supposed to be "friendly" games.
Hard to figure out what tactics to use with a given army when said army gets vaped 'ere it can even do anything.
I'll try the Vampire Counts next when I finish assembling them; perhaps my luck will change.
It would be nice if anyone in this area played something besides high elves, though... I just haven't seen any others since the VC guy sold off his army when they made the rule-change that you had to use a Vampire for the general.
A rule that makes sense to me...


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## Durzod (Nov 24, 2009)

I second the advice about finding someone else to play. There's bound to be someone there who isn't an embarrassment to the hobby. Surprisingly, I find the local 40k players more WAAC than the Fantasy players. I guess it's because we have more wives/girlfriends learning Fantasy (and you don't DARE get all WAAC with them!).


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## Daemon Prince Paintbox (Feb 21, 2011)

Sorry you've had a bad experience to begin. Don't get disheartened. I think players that have no time for new players really shouldn't play. But they probably have no friends! You learn nothing when people crush you in the ways you've had dealt against you. If you have a local club or mates who play just go down and ask to have some battles. Start small and learn the basics. Then when you get better you'll pick things up each match you play. There should always be people ready to help you guys learn.

You could read the rule book but you'll forget everything. But it's great to have at hand and use it to confer with as you go through each round. 

If you come up against Teclis again just shoot the guy! (Teclis....not the player!)

Some armies do have some slight benefits so you need to play to your strengths.

Hope you get some good games in soon. All the best and happy gaming


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

Sorry about your experiences.
Anyone who plays Tecilis in a 'friendly game' has odd views of friendship.
anyone who plays Tecilis vs. some one who's very inexperienced in the game/ edition, is a horrible sport.

Dark Elves are still very potent, but shine at higher levels. They are a delicate army that take some fussing to live up to their potential.

Good luck


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Well, thanx for the answers, everyone.


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