# Need Help Against Necrons; Using Vanilla Marines



## Kelann08 (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm new to playing 40K (started following the hobby 15 years ago) and I have a force of Imperial Fists. I joined an escalation league at a local store and there's one guy (the guy I met at another store and my "in" with the league) who is just destroying me every game. We played 2-3 games at 500 points and today we played a game with 750. Oddly, this was something of an improvement since I actually got a kill point this time. 

He runs a unit of 10ish Immortals, 5 warriors (who never see combat), 3 destroyers, 3 spiders (WTF spiders...) and a command barge. I need some help, be it strategy or list building, that will help me compete against him. I know I'm new and I know I should expect to lose but I'm feeling utterly helpless right now. I'm going to try and avoid playing him for a while (there's ~16 people in the league) because its just causing me to get frustrated and not want to play. 

Any help? opcorn:


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Not all lists are created equally, especially not at sub 1000 pt levels. Three spiders aren't easy to handle with so little special weapons available to you at that point level....especially as vanilla marines. The playing field will level out as you can field more, as you will have more tools to deal with them quickly. What do you field at 500/750? Might be able to help more knowing what you run and what you have available to you :victory:


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Sternguard and/or riflemen. Never leave home without them.


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

Yeah is you told us what you normally field it could help. What my main problem as a necron player is with the large proportion of units theyare terrible in close combat, not because they die easily but that they are I2 so they killed quick, if you can get into combat with the immortals you should take a chunk out of them. 

The destroyers have prefferred eneamy everything so they may be a bit more of a problem in CC but I normally only play with 4 and they get hammered in close combat - if u can take them all out then they can't come back.

The spyders are going to be the main problem - were there any scarabs because it seems a waist to take 3 without any especially in a game under 1000pts. These, you will need to shoot, they are T5 so unless you have a S10 weapon then you are going to have to take each wound one by one, unless you have multiple power weapons (e.g terminators) in which case again just assault them.

With regards to the barge, if he is sweeping a lot then he will probably be leaving his rear exposed so that you can take down his quantum shieldingwhich would make him AV11 all round.

The warriors should go pretty quickly if u keep shooting at them, and will definately be gone if they are assaulted.

If you can make them run from combat then the unit loses all its RP rolls and any downed models are removed.

I've probably just revealed my armies biggest weaknesses but oh well :grin:


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## Kelann08 (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback thus far.

In the most recent game I'm running Capt. w/combi-melta and relic blade, 5 man tactical, 10 man tactical (w/melta and ML), land speeder w/HF and HB and two dreadnoughts, one CCW/AC and one ML/PG. I'm in the process of adding 5 terminators w/SS/TH, 8 sternguard with combi-meltas/-flamers, 3 rhinos, 2 dakka preds, terminator librarian and a vindicator.

I originally intended to be a gunline army but I'm not finding much success in that. The normal old bolter isn't cutting it. I'm thinking I need to add power fists to my tactical sergeants. I may also bring my ~200 point command squad. Its pretty well kitted for CC. I'm looking forward to 1,000 points and I'll bring my librarian, terminators and LRC. I'm hoping the deathstar approach will help. 

I do have access to four bikes and an attack bike right now but I doubt it will help much.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Gunline Marines? Nah, you need mobility in 5th (the two weeks we have left of it), which means taking Rhinos full of Sternguard, Tactical bunkers, backed up by Rifleman Dreads and Predator Destructors. Best HQ you can take is a Librarian with Avenger/Null Zone, although against this list you might prefer Avenger and either Gate of Infinity or Force Dome. Using Gate alongside some Sternguard will probably go well for you, whether it's for going to an objective and using Kraken Bolts to take the Warriors off of it, going to Rapid-Fire range and hosing the Immortals with either Vengeance or Hellfire Rounds, and obviously using Hellfire Rounds to take down the Spyders.

If you mech up, the Destroyers suddenly become fairly useless, as do the Immortals and Warriors. Take advantage of the free Multi-Melta in the Tactical Squads and keep everyone close to the two Tactical bunkers - it's 2 24" bubbles of 'Fuck you' to the Command Barge. You don't want to drive AV11 Open Topped into Multi-Meltas, especially when you're paying that many points.

Midnight


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

I've never seen any SM (any chapter) do well below 1000pts. It sounds to me like you need some Heavy Weapons like Missile Launchers, being AP3 you'll tear those Destroyers and Spyders to bits.

Also as a basic rule, make sure to grind a unit into dust completely, if even one survives the rest can stand back up (well in that round anyways)


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I rarely see SM do well against Necrons. Necrons are too durable, they will just grind SM down in the end every time.

The only sure way to beat Necrons has not changed from one codex to the next: intensive target priority.

You need to identify the key Necron units from turn 1, and concentrate all damage on a single unit at a time until it is dead. It is the only way to be sure. Anything less will allow Necrons to regain their numbers. For example, I had a game where someone shot 15 out of 16 Necron Warriors dead, the Warriors passed their Moral Test and 14 Warriors passed the RP test - a whole turn of shooting resulted in a single dead Warrior.

This is the strength of Necrons, and it is this that your strategy must counter. You must force lots of moral checks, and CC moral checks are best because combat loss difference modifies the universally high Necron Ld.

That said, CC is no longer a weakness for Necrons, so don't expect an easy win just because your army might be able to pull off a turn 1 or 2 assault.


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## Kelann08 (Nov 22, 2011)

MidnightSun said:


> Gunline Marines? Nah, you need mobility in 5th (the two weeks we have left of it), which means taking Rhinos full of Sternguard, Tactical bunkers, backed up by Rifleman Dreads and Predator Destructors. Best HQ you can take is a Librarian with Avenger/Null Zone, although against this list you might prefer Avenger and either Gate of Infinity or Force Dome. Using Gate alongside some Sternguard will probably go well for you, whether it's for going to an objective and using Kraken Bolts to take the Warriors off of it, going to Rapid-Fire range and hosing the Immortals with either Vengeance or Hellfire Rounds, and obviously using Hellfire Rounds to take down the Spyders.
> 
> If you mech up, the Destroyers suddenly become fairly useless, as do the Immortals and Warriors. Take advantage of the free Multi-Melta in the Tactical Squads and keep everyone close to the two Tactical bunkers - it's 2 24" bubbles of 'Fuck you' to the Command Barge. You don't want to drive AV11 Open Topped into Multi-Meltas, especially when you're paying that many points.
> 
> Midnight


A lot what you're telling me is the direction I'm going. I'm pretty limited by my glacial painting pace. My future list is as follows...

Librarian - terminator, SS (w/terminators inside LRC)

5x Terminators - SS/TH (inside LRC)
8x Sternguard - 3x c-melta, 3x c-flamer (inside rhino)
1x Dreadnought - 2x autocannon

10x tactical - melta, ML (inside rhino)
10x tactical - melta, ML (inside rhino)
5x Scouts - sniper rifles

2x Land speeder - HF/MM

2x Predators - DAKKA
1x Vindicator

I figured this setup gets me a fair bit of everything I need and I can tailor my list as necessary. The vindicator won't see too much play due to range and lack of survivability but its a nice sacrifice unit in large games where I can afford it.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

i highly recommend getting some land speeder typhoons, they are usually out of range of all the scary gauss weapons, and you can hammer the spyders and everything into submission.

edit: but i would hold off on actually buying them until you read the 6th ed rules.


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## CPT Killjoy (Feb 15, 2012)

Honestly, that’s going to be your biggest problem right now. Since the 6th edition comes out so soon, it’s very hard to give you accurate advice. As @Fallen said, typhoons are a great choice, but there’s no reason to buy them right now. Working with what you have I would think the sternguard w/ Libby is going to be your best bet (for the reasons outlined above). Termies are another good choice, but really you just don’t have the points for what you would need in a 750 or 500 point game. In a 1k game, it might be a different story. Coming full circle though, that could all change in short order once the 6th comes out…..


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Terminators are not so great vs Necrons. They tend to be in small units and go down quickly.

Drop-pod Dreads are good, get you in close fast, but beware of hidden Warscythes.

Generally it doesn't matter what you use in your army as long as you know how to use it.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Best way to defeat Necrons is sweeping advance with a higher initiative unit.


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## CPT Killjoy (Feb 15, 2012)

@darklove: Two things

1) Sure they are as long as you use them properly. Especially in CC with LC’s and TH/SS. And considering you can’t get back up if the Terminators you are in CC with are properly spaced out, I’d say they are very effective. Just not a low points, and not for his list.

2) Of course you can argue that any unit can be used in a 40k game, but saying that it makes no difference what units you bring is ridiculous. If it didn’t matter, no one would ask for advice on list building. Also, the first statement contradicts the second. If terminators are terrible against Necrons, then shouldn’t he choose to bring a better unit?


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

CPT Killjoy said:


> @darklove: Two things
> 
> 1) Sure they are as long as you use them properly. Especially in CC with LC’s and TH/SS. And considering you can’t get back up if the Terminators you are in CC with are properly spaced out, I’d say they are very effective. Just not a low points, and not for his list.


Not quite sure what you mean here, spacing has nothing to do with RP. Necrons are no longer helpless in CC. They now have power weapons, and weapons that do not allow armour saves, as well as good invulnerable saves and things like Mind Shackle Scarabs. For their points cost, Terminators are a very weak option against Necrons and rarely yield a ROI worth the effort in any size game.




CPT Killjoy said:


> 2) Of course you can argue that any unit can be used in a 40k game, but saying that it makes no difference what units you bring is ridiculous. If it didn’t matter, no one would ask for advice on list building. Also, the first statement contradicts the second. If terminators are terrible against Necrons, then shouldn’t he choose to bring a better unit?


Ah, my poor friend, you must learn to read with rigour. You will observe, perhaps from a second reading, that I qualify my statement. There is no contradiction. I don't think the rest of that mind-splat requires comment.


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## CPT Killjoy (Feb 15, 2012)

You are correct. Through clever use of the word “generally”, you have made a statement that makes almost no sense. See how I did that there? Using “almost”. CYA just as solid as yours I think.

You can only resurrect as long as you are 1" from an enemy model right? And you have low initiative. So really.... if you end up in combat with Terminators, and they have lighting claws, and charge you in CC, they have 3 attacks each with reroll. And they ignore armor saves, which leave you with your INV saves only, which depending on the model the terminators are facing, isn’t great. So, (adding onto a point you did make earlier) if you play the terminators properly they are actually effective. They can reconsolidate on your position, and you can’t resurrect yourself because they would be spaced out to prevent it (having larger than normal bases makes this even easier actually), as you can’t resurrect more than 1” from the enemy and can only move 3” to accomplish this (2” really, since you have to have more than a 1” gap). Also, should someone be playing them correctly, they would ideally have close support or terrain to further make use of this rule, such as another infantry unit near them, or impassible terrain.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

As you ask; irony is probably best appreciated when it is not accompanied by quite as many grammatical flaws.

At any rate, let me enlighten you on the subject at hand: Necron Resurrection Protocols (RP)

Models that pass their RP roll will join a unit that is engaged in CC by making a 'pile in' move, the 1" restriction does not apply. This is important to know, Necrons would otherwise never be able to use RP from CC wounds in an ongoing combat, which is obviously not how RP is intended to work or how it is expressed by the wording of the rule in the codex.

Models with Ever Living can reanimate anywhere within 3" of their marker if they are the last model of the unit, and if they are the last model then this can be blocked by enemy models being within an inch.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I oncegot in a melee with two 5-man TH/SS termies with a 20-man blob of warriors and locked him in combat for three rounds, with both sides taking about three casualties total. TH/SS Termies don't get to take advantage of Necron I2, and lets face it, the rest of the Necron statline isn't so bad.


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