# are their only four chaos gods?



## Bob Franks (Mar 21, 2010)

are there four minor and four major chaos gods?


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## ClassyRaptor (Apr 7, 2010)

No there are only Four CHAOS Gods, Other Races like the Necrons, Eldar Orks have different gods and a different Number of Gods.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

No there are more chaos gods. The next most powerful chaos god would probably be Malice. He is mentioned in Heroes of the Space Marines


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

There are more than four, as Ck said Malice would be the next best thing... Then there's Melkirth who I don't even think is official in the canon as he is stated as feeding off of the Dark Eldar's emotions/actions so I don't know if he counts...

Other than those two I know there are a few more who are included in fantasy. Hashut and the Horned Rat to name just two of them.


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

Malice/Malal and Melkirth are probably the next two most powerful (assuming Melkirth is canon)

If you look in the Melkirth topic in General 40K we're currently redesigning a fanmade Melkirth as the 5th chaos god too

But officially there's many many minor gods, but only the main 4 as the major chaos gods


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## Bob Franks (Mar 21, 2010)

ok thanks!


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

murdock129 said:


> Malice/Malal and Melkirth are probably the next two most powerful (assuming Melkirth is canon)


Yeah, Malal, a Chaos god dedicated rebellion, infighting, outcasts and to the destruction of Chaos, was going to be the 5th major god, but sadly there was a copywrite issue, and he was dropped, never to be spoken of again. This was 20 years ago or something though, so before some of you were even born....

Still, it's a cool idea for a god, wish they'd gone back and just tweaked the idea enough to bring him back...


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Mainly depends on your definition of god. There are FOUR chaos powers, but any number of powerful daemons would doubtlessly have the hubris to call themselves gods, so the number could be legion. 
Other gods include Gork and Mork, the ork gods, and Khaine and Cegorach, Eldar gods, however their power has greatly diminished with the rise of humanity, and it can be argued that they are simply facets of the primary powers.
The Necron C`tan are not something that I would define as a god. They can be killed in a somewhat conventional sense of the word, and a warp based god is eternal as long as its emotions exist in the real world.

That`s a complicated way to put it, but basically there are four chaos gods and a number of wannabes.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

As many others have said there are more than four Chaos Gods. Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh are just the four most powerful and dominant within the Warp.

Infact even Greater Daemons or Daemon Princes can forge their own realms within the Warp, in the Formless Wastes. If these Daemons are powerful enough they can instill a measure of control in the Formless Wastes thus creating their own realm and become a god in their own right.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Malal might be gone for copywrite purposes but he is still remembered- often hinted at in the chaos fluff (if you know what to look for) and even has a semi-official colour scheme for his CSM: quarters of black/white... even has his own set of markings.
I cant remember what book it is in but there is a picture of one of Malal's marines in one of the official books; while they cant say it is dedicated to Malal it does hint about it being from another of the chaos gods. I just wish I could remember what book it is in (not CSM- mebbe in one of the art books).


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

I've inquired into this at GW and according to the staff, yes Melkirth is considered Canon.

So Melkirth is technically the 5th chaos god, though he's in even more need of an update than the DE and Necrons


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

murdock129 said:


> I've inquired into this at GW and according to the staff, yes Melkirth is considered Canon.
> 
> So Melkirth is technically the 5th chaos god, though he's in even more need of an update than the DE and Necrons


Well yeah everything is considered canon 

But Melkirth isn't the fifth Chaos God, hes just another minor Chaos God that pales in comparison to the four dominant ones.


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

OK he's a minor god, but in the future he will become the fifth chaos god (at least that was the case last time he was mentioned, which means now sometime soon he will ascend to become the 5th chaos god


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

malal's CSM legion was called the sons of malice.


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

murdock129 said:


> OK he's a minor god, but in the future he will become the fifth chaos god (at least that was the case last time he was mentioned, which means now sometime soon he will ascend to become the 5th chaos god


 Speculation on your part I take it?

Even if they were going to, I doubt a store manager would know and he likely wouldn't tell you if he did. >.>


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

Well yeah I admit it's speculation. I was referring to the fluff with him ascending, not actual models or an army ingame, I don't see them coming out anytime soon. And it said he was gonna be the fifth chaos god in the future a while ago in continuity. But yeah it's an assumption it'll be soon, they may well have just mostly forgotten him and decided not to make him ascend or something


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

murdock129 said:


> Well yeah I admit it's speculation. I was referring to the fluff with him ascending, not actual models or an army ingame, I don't see them coming out anytime soon. And it said he was gonna be the fifth chaos god in the future a while ago in continuity. But yeah it's an assumption it'll be soon, they may well have just mostly forgotten him and decided not to make him ascend or something


 Goes to show you, most of the time Wikia sites are good enough sources... But the articles are always questionable.

-Assuming you're using a wiki for your info-


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

I used what I found on Wikipedia and what the Games Workshop staff told me as a basis for that assumption

and sorry everyone for not being clear


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

I'm enjoying reading the speculation you're creating with your fanmade Melkirth but he'll never officially be the fifth major power- the fluff stating that he would ascend must be very old by now and after all this time I just can't see GW inserting a new Chaos deity into the game as a 'great' power when hardly anyone has heard of him (plus that wkipedia article doesn't actually have any references for where it draws it's Melkirth info from so I'm sceptical).


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> I'm enjoying reading the speculation you're creating with your fanmade Melkirth but he'll never officially be the fifth major power- the fluff stating that he would ascend must be very old by now and after all this time I just can't see GW inserting a new Chaos deity into the game as a 'great' power when hardly anyone has heard of him (plus that wkipedia article doesn't actually have any references for where it draws it's Melkirth info from so I'm sceptical).


First and foremost thank you for your compliment, I'm glad your enjoying it. I'm afraid chances are your right and there's next to no chance of him officially becoming the 5th chaos god at least ingame (and slightly more, but still low in fluff). And yes I was skeptical, though since the GW people seemed to already know about Melkirth I'm kinda inclined to believe he did and still does exist in some form


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Are Malal or Malice and Melkirth intended to be the same guy? I`ve heard both being described as the fifth power but was wondering if they were just different names ot actually different characters. 

If not, what makes them different?


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

dark eldar also serve slaanesh right? not just emperors children right?????


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

No, the Dark Eldar hate all Chaos but especially Slaanesh- it's not only the Emperor's Children that worship Slaanesh, other Chaos Space Marines do as well.


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

Melkirth was a minor god in the canon who in future would become the fifth chaos god. He (officially) is god of malice and wanton cruelty.
Malal was the fifth god for a short time till he was removed over a legal issue, he was the god of self destruction, and wasn't the same as Melkirth

So Malal officially doesn't exist anymore while Melkirth does but can be assumed has yet to ascend


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

why especially slaanesh?

oh the eldar fled from slaanesh


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

robot-waffle said:


> why especially slaanesh?
> 
> oh the eldar fled from slaanesh


Kinda, the Fall of the Eldar created Slaanesh who destroyed most of the Eldar as well as all but three Eldar gods (one of whom, Khaine, was split into many fragments if I remember right). Now when Eldar die their souls are taken by Slaanesh unless they escape to a waystone. And if a waystone is eaten by a Slaanesh daemon it's soul is taken in by Slaanesh anyway


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

in the game dark eldar building slave chamber has something to do about slaanesh


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

In Dawn of War yeah. Though that makes absolutely no sense Canon-wise and contradicts all other facts about Slaanesh and the Dark Eldar's relationship


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

also the soul cage has somethin to do with slaanesh


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

robot-waffle said:


> also the soul cage has somethin to do with slaanesh


We get the point.

But the Dark Eldar despise Slaanesh. Slaanesh is the one who constantly drains their souls, and who consumes and torments their souls when they die. She has a complete and utter dominion over all Eldar souls.

And also, assuming your talking about _Dawn of War: Soulstorm_, what has the Soul Cage and Slave Chamber got to do with Slaanesh?


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

ye thats my question, ur wise


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

robot-waffle said:


> in the game dark eldar building slave chamber has something to do about slaanesh





robot-waffle said:


> also the soul cage has somethin to do with slaanesh


They weren't presented as questions at all, they were presented as statements.


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

my english isnt really good. and when you think so much about what your gonna say it messes up


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks for clarifying, Murdock.

Soul cages and slave chamber are just DE machines to keep and use their slaves, right? There is no connection to Slaanesh.


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

"Before the Fall, the Eldar had an immense galaxy-spanning empire comprising millions of worlds, larger and more powerful than even the Imperium of Man at the height of its power. The Eldar lived in relative peace—barbarian races such as the Orks were kept at easily manageable numbers and never had the strength to threaten the might of the Eldar empire. The humans were not yet virulently xenophobic and did not have a large domain, and the Tyranid Hive Fleets were unknown. The C'tan and Necrons, ancient foes of the Eldar, were long ago defeated and still remained dormant.
Life on the Eldar worlds was idyllic, with fantastically sophisticated machines to take care of all labour and manufacturing required, leaving the Eldar free to indulge in other, more aesthetic pursuits. With all menial work taken care of for them, the Eldar became indolent and decadent. They began to explore more and more the arts of pleasure, delving ever deeper into hedonism. The descent into decadence spanned millennia. Tradition and order disintegrated as they limited the pursuit of pleasure. Sects called Pleasure Cults were formed, dedicated to achieving the highest levels of hedonistic sensation, and their ceremonies and practices became ever more wild, eventually devolving into violence and sacrifice of their own kind. Some Eldar hated what their race had become and left the Homeworlds for the virgin Maiden Worlds, or left on the newly-constructed Craftworlds, leaving the Pleasure Cults to their madness.
Meanwhile, something terrible was stirring in the Warp. The millennia of Eldar hedonism had made a massive impact in the psychic realm of Chaos. Within the warp the decadent Eldar civilization was giving shape to a Power of Chaos, which grew and grew over thousands of years, getting stronger and more defined until suddenly it sparked into an intelligence – a shatteringly huge and malign intelligence, with an immense and bottomless thirst for Eldar souls. This was the birth of Slaanesh.
The process lasted for thousands of years, corresponding to mankind's Age of Strife, although when Slaanesh finally came into being, the results with the universe were apocalyptic and sudden. An almighty psychic shockwave scythed across the galaxy. The souls of almost every Eldar were stripped from them in an instant and devoured by the new-born Chaos god. There were few survivors. Most were driven mad, their minds trapped half in the real world and half in the swirling insanity of the Warp. A great warp rift was created, encompassing the entire Eldar empire and creating the Eye of Terror.
Of the few survivors of the Pleasure Cults, some remained sane and able. They found to their horror that Slaanesh had not yet finished with the Eldar – S/he was slowly draining their souls while they still lived. To escape this these survivors fled in small groups to the Webway, the system of sealed tunnels that run through the Warp and enabled the Eldar to traverse the galaxy safe from attack by Daemons and other Warp creatures. Deep in the Webway, these small groups came together and laid the foundations of Commorragh. More and more survivors began to arrive, and added their own parts to the new city, making it even larger and more heavily populated.
Some Kabals can trace their history back to the creation of the Dark City, including Asdrubael Vect’s Kabal of the Black Heart"

that explains almost everything that slaanesh and dark eldar share.

Slaanesh can be counted as an Eldar god, s/he was formed by their sacrifices and s/he takes a big part in eldar mythology.

"Thousands upon thousands of years later, when the Eldar race traveled to the stars and forged a great empire, they grew decadent and indulgent. Their thoughts and emotions coalesced in the Warp into a new and deadly god - Slaanesh. The birth of Slaanesh and the Fall of the Eldar heralded the end of the Eldar pantheon. Slaanesh slew the Eldar gods viciously - Lileath, Asuryan, even the old, blind Morai-Heg were murdered by Slaanesh. Khaine, the mightiest warrior of the gods did battle with Slaanesh and was cast down and eventually shattered into a million pieces which became his Avatars. Thus did Lileath's prophecy come true, and the Eldar were the cause of Khaine's destruction - even as he battled to save them. Slaanesh is the youngest God in the Chaos pantheon.
Though this is certainly the most well known of the myths, Eldar mythology contains many stories, and each Eldar is expected to know at least all of the major ones. The effect of these myths upon the Eldar language, which is said to be amazingly complex and almost incomprehensible to human ears, mainly due to the intricate references to these myths. For example, the word 'Faolchú', which commonly refers to the Eldar war machine known as the Falcon, but also refers to the legendary bird and its actions, lending the word connotations beyond the immediate.
Near the end of the war in heaven, it is believed by one craftworld that when Slaanesh claimed Isha as his own, Nurgle heard her cries for help and came to her aid. Nurgle took Isha from the jaws of Slaneesh and now she is caged within his cauldron chamber, making her taste all of the poisons and poxes that he designs. If the results please him, he empties the contents into a bottomless drain, making it rain upon the mortal worlds. If it does not please him, he swallows the concoction, vomits it back into his cauldron and starts afresh. It is said that while Nurgle is busy with his plagues, Isha whispers to mortals, seeking to tell them the cures for the poxes she has tasted."


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

_robot-waffle_ what is your point? We are all well aware of the history of the Eldar and how Slaanesh was birthed...


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

i didnt know i learned it, all i still wonder is why the heck does soul cages description mention slaanesh


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

I gotta agree with Child-of-the-Emperor, what was the point of posting this?


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

I gotta agree with Child-of-the-Emperor, what was the point of posting this?


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

my point was that i know slaanesh gets stronger with souls, and dark eldar need souls they are *addicted* to it. thats why soul cages mention slaanesh in description?


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

I somehow doubt it. The Dark Eldar have something to do with souls probably (I'm not an expert on them) but Slaanesh will swallow *their* souls when they die


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

k but that dosent really answer why is slaanesh mentioned on the soul cage description, though they both have something to do with souls


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

I don't know why Slaanesh was mentioned, no one here knows why it was mentioned, you'd have to ask GW. Probably just a mistake


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

i dont think its a mistake because it is mentioned both in the description of slave chamber and soul cage. and how am i gonna ask em?


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

Don't know how you ask them.

And I mean it was a mistake, the people coding the buildings for the game thought the DE worship Slaanesh


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

i thought they did when i bought soul storm lol


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## techwitch (Nov 6, 2009)

Malal, Chaos God of Infighting, lost in official canon due to infighting... sometimes truth is stranger than fiction...


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

"Also known as "The Outcast God", "The Lost God" and "The Renegade God", Malal was the embodiment of Chaos' indiscriminate tendency toward destruction, even of itself and its own agents. The nature of Malal's powers is parasitic, as the Renegade God grows in power when the other Chaos Powers do"
"There is a name whispered quietly and with fear even by the most depraved, the most evil, and the least sane of the worshippers of Chaos. That name is Malal, the Renegade God of Chaos. Any man who dares look within the unholy black pages of The Great Book of Despair, that foul tome held sacred by worshippers of Chaos, would find the following words: "...and he that went before now came last, and that which was white and black and all direction was thrown against itself. Grown mightily indignant at the words of the Gods, Malal did turn his heart against them and flee into the chambers of space . . . And no man looked to Malal then, save those that serve that which they hate, who smile upon their misfortune, and who bear no love save for the damned. At such times as a warrior's heart turns to Malal, all Gods of Chaos grow fearful, and the laughter of the Outcast God fills the tomb of space . . ."

In eons past Malal was cast out from the bosom of Chaos by the other Gods, or else abandoned them of his own volition, no one is sure which. In any case, Malal's relationship to the other Gods of Chaos is a strange one. All Gods of Chaos pursue purposes that are wholly their own, yet only Malal occupies a position so resolutely parasitic upon his own unfathomable creed.

To be a follower of Malal is to be a Chaotic warrior bent upon shedding the blood of other Chaotic creatures. As such, Malal is both feared and hated by the other Chaos Gods. Malal's worshippers, too, are loathed by other Chaotics; they are outcasts beloved by neither the friends nor enemies of Chaos, dependent upon the least whim of their patron deity. Few men worship such a God; fewer still live long in his service. The bonds that tie master and servant ever drain upon the soul of the warrior, and it is a rare man that can loosen the bonds of Malal once forged."

found only 1 source that gives description

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malal


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

How about you just post the link rather than giving us the entire Lexicnaum article in your posts?

It's not like Slaanesh is the only Chaos God that consumes souls, they all do and the Dark Eldar consume souls to sustain their lives as their own life force is continously sapped by 'She Who Thirsts' and if they die then their souls will immediately be consumed by Her.


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

and by her you mean?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

robot-waffle said:


> and by her you mean?


Slaanesh is referred to by the Eldar as 'She who Thirsts'.

And when the Baron said 'her' he was also referring to Slaanesh.


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

how can she be a he when he is a she? i thought tzeentch was the lord of change


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The Gods don;t have a defined sex, you can't think of them in that way- they can appear however they wish and Slaanesh is often portrayed as male, female or a hemaphrodite.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

robot-waffle said:


> how can she be a he when he is a she? i thought tzeentch was the lord of change


Just think about it for a minute...

The Chaos Gods do not maintain genders. They are not males or females. They are essentially sentient emotions.

Although that having been said, Slaanesh is said to be able to take on a male, female or hermaphrodite form when 'it'(!) wills.


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

Slaanesh can be whatever he/she wants to be. Technically it's a hermaphrodite. But we're getting off topic


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

murdock129 said:


> I somehow doubt it. The Dark Eldar have something to do with souls probably (I'm not an expert on them) but Slaanesh will swallow *their* souls when they die


 I believe that's the point of the Dark Eldar killing and raiding Imperial worlds and the like, they feed Slaanesh preventing her from simply wiping their souls out like she did when she was birthed.

Unless that isn't how it works -though I'm pretty sure it is.


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## Tuck3r (Apr 9, 2010)

I think noise's theory makes the most sense. i also have a question if Slaanesh is the god of pleasure and excess wouldn't it appear as a giant crab clawed futa if it ever manifested itself... really odd theory i know but still.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

One thing that should be noted is that DOW story really wasnt cooked up GW it was done by THQ just like the blood raven were a creation done simlpy for the game.

The mention of slaanesh was prolly just the good folks at THQ misunderstanding the fluff a lil bit.

to say what needs to be said is that the DE fear slaanesh just as the Eldar do.

Thats it im saying GW needs to make a new DE codex with some fluff there story needs more substance.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I`m pretty sure blood ravens were in the fluff before DoW, but there was no fluff, they were just another name that got pulled out of the hat for the making of the game. 

I think...


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Nope, the first time Blood Ravens appeared was when DOW came out- not unexpected a more than 1 Chapter as suddenly appeared in a Codex with a back story (Iron Knights being a major example, they're a GW staff member's DIY chapter).


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## robot-waffle (Apr 9, 2010)

im starting to think that GW dosent care...


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

robot-waffle said:


> im starting to think that GW dosent care...


Why? About what?


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## murdock129 (Apr 3, 2008)

I think he might mean GW don't care about fluff, though I may well be wrong


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Not so much that they don`t care, but as this is a fan perpetuated storyline, they would be somewhat limited on what they could do.

They can`t really "advance" the story much further without overhauling the whole game, so I have noticed they`re beginning to cover more "history."

Frankly, I wouldn`t mind if they advanced or concluded it, the game itself would not have to change.

But then again, theorizing and speculation are a lot of fun and keep us interested (thus more money) so I`d say it`s unlikely to go much further. If anything, they may go further back. Which, imo, would be just as interesting.


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