# Raveners actually a Legit choice? (Planetstrike)



## Ensanguined Priest (Feb 11, 2009)

The first thing i thought after reading the info about planet strike was _6 Fast attack And assaulting the turn i DS... RAVENERS!!!_

I think, in planetstrike, that raveners are really gonna be great again. As they can assault on the turn they DS (thanks to having the Deep Strike special rule), they really are gonna kick some imperial (or xenos, or anything else for that matter) ass!

Now, i envision PS to be quite large battles, maybe not quite apoc. size, but larger than a standard game. So myself and a few friends have had a few mock games, (using the Attacker/Defender FO, a couple of bastions and the barrage thingy), but really none of us have very large amounts of points worth of armies (_oh, the curse of being a student_). 
So with this in mind we just decided to do normal battles, but tweaked so they became 'planetstrike' ones.. Generally this means 1.5 - 2k matches, but with the new FO and shizz.

So, (trying to get round to the initial reason for posting) would Raveners actually be a good investment for a Tyranid army?
Ive always kinda overlooked them as they have seemed rather frail and expensive. but now im quite drawn to the idea of having a unit... or two... xD

6 Ravneners, with Dual Talons, and a Devourer each comes in at _around_ 300 if i remember right. This is a pretty large chunk out of that 1.5-2k. But is it worth is for 36 S3 Shots, and 39 S4 CC attacks, which can shoot *And* assault the enemy (hopefully) on *Turn One*?

Thats potentially Alot of Killy.....

xD


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Guns would probably be overkill but raveners themselves would be great- they can DS, run and assault 12". They are going to get the assault even if you DS them in complete safety.. so yes, they are quite good.

They will still die pretty fast and have no assault grenades but are I5 and decent enough


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## Master_Caleb (Jan 5, 2009)

I actually thought about this, and even though I wouldn't go for the guns it's possible, but even then I wouldn't risk it. It's too easy to scatter, and if your opponent sets up a decent base chances are it will mean mishap.... of DOOOOOM

thanks,

~MC


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

You shouldnt ever mishap with raveners- they are beasts meaning they can charge 12+D6" after a planetstrike DS.


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

Chaos Dreads are another lousy units that merits reconsideration for Planetstrike. When you can DS them so that there will almost certainly be an enemy unit closer than a friendly, their "Crazed" special rule might actually be a benefit.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Dude, DUDE.
Why would you even CONSIDER giving Raveners dual Talons??
Talons and Claws is the only option you ever take.

Oh yes, the extra attack is nice against infantry, but that's what you have Gaunts for!
But the Rending is what makes them useful, you can zoom across the board and rip a squad to shreds, or hit a vehicle really hard.

Guns are good on them, but expensive and unnecessary.
You'd be better off in PS taking medium squads of 3-4, with Talons and Rending, and just deep striking them near the enemy.
Be careful of cover though, that will be their downfall.


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## Ensanguined Priest (Feb 11, 2009)

Bah, Guns are fun
Pretty much everything in my army that Can have Devourers, Has devourers (except for two of my gaunt squads, but meh). 
But that might be something ill consider if the points are needed elsewhere, which tbf they probably will...

As for choosing double Talons over Talon & Claws, i always take talons. I just have an obsession with having loads of attacks (im sorely tempted to start IG, and take 9 Leman Russ Punisher's..).
Also, i suppose that with rending id be slightly more likely to kill the unit im attacking, with a PS deployment id presume that my opponent is going to have units set up pretty close together, i don't want whichever unit im attacking to be dead from my charge cause then id have my raveners lost to enemy fire. But with two rounds of CC attacks (the charge and enemy turn) then that extra attack should be enough to wipe out the enemy unit, allowing me to move onto the next target in my turn.
Thats just the way i think it.

However i do agree with taking smaller squads 
(thought id throw in something so didn't just disagree with everything said)


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Combine with the Supply Drop Strategem. What, you don't have a PS book yet? Roll a dice that doesn't physically exist, but is common enough, giving that many units OffGren, DefGren, and MeltaBs. Raveners are incredible in Planetstrike, buy some now. No joke.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Combine with the Supply Drop Strategem. What, you don't have a PS book yet? Roll a dice that doesn't physically exist, but is common enough, giving that many units OffGren, DefGren, and MeltaBs. Raveners are incredible in Planetstrike, buy some now. No joke.


How do YOU have it?
Just sneaked a peek at the local GW?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

It was part of 2nd prize at Fields of Blood. I'm rereading it right now, and posting anytime people ask specific questions about units that will be great at PS games. :wink:


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> It was part of 2nd prize at Fields of Blood. I'm rereading it right now, and posting anytime people ask specific questions about units that will be great at PS games. :wink:


Can you tell me if a unit of photocopythatbookrightnowandsendittome would be good?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

No, that costs too many points. I should warn you, PS will take a LOT of terrain, particularly craters etc. I know to some players this seems a lot of hassle, and expense, but, trust me, you won't regret it...:wink:


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> No, that costs too many points. I should warn you, PS will take a LOT of terrain, particularly craters etc. I know to some players this seems a lot of hassle, and expense, but, trust me, you won't regret it...:wink:


Good, Tyranids LOVE terrain to skulk around in!


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## Ensanguined Priest (Feb 11, 2009)

Supply Drop Sounds Awesome :shok:
*Creams Pants*
I just wish gargoyles didnt cost so damn much, i think they would work pretty well too


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Ensanguined Priest said:


> Supply Drop Sounds Awesome :shok:
> *Creams Pants*
> I just wish gargoyles didnt cost so damn much, i think they would work pretty well too


Considering what they're capable of in PS, I think they're worth it!
Deep strike, shoot stuff with good guns, run instead if you need to, charge, 2 crap attacks and 1 good attack.
I don't care WHAT you say, each one of those guys will take out at least 1 marine in that turn.


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## Ensanguined Priest (Feb 11, 2009)

Haha yea, but each one will also take out a fairly large chunk of money from some very limited funds


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Then care what _I_ say, 
Gargoyles aren't worth it, because Raveners have Rending, Scything Talons, a 13-18" charge, should be your second wave, and should probably be maxed - PS works better at 2k+


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## Ensanguined Priest (Feb 11, 2009)

Bah
with 6 FA slots ill take both (eventually).
Some raveners, goyles, and a few winged warriors 
Nid FA choices never looked so good :victory:


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

:laugh: I see you also play Blood Angels...so, perhaps you won't want to play Nids at all...especially with a Ground Observer...:wink:


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

While I love gargoyles they wont do too well against MEQs (it should take 3 to kill 1 MEQ if they shoot and charge). 
The problem that I can see is that most nids that can DS dont have flesh hooks- gargoyles or raveners attacking into cover could be quite painful if they are attacking a strong unit.

Another thing we were discussing in my FLGS the other day was the I value of bioplasma when attacking terrain- if it was 2*I, I2 or I1 was up for debate... we decided it struck last with the normal attacks but were unsure. Gargoyles attacking at I8 with bioplasma even when attacking into cover would be cool.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> :laugh: I see you also play Blood Angels...so, perhaps you won't want to play Nids at all...especially with a Ground Observer...:wink:


Stop fucking with us D:
Just because you know the rules T_T


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> Another thing we were discussing in my FLGS the other day was the I value of bioplasma when attacking terrain- if it was 2*I, I2 or I1 was up for debate... we decided it struck last with the normal attacks but were unsure. Gargoyles attacking at I8 with bioplasma even when attacking into cover would be cool.


It says in the BRB that the actual stat is reduced to 1.
So the Bio-Plasma would strike at I2.

Doesn't make much difference, just about everything worth putting in cover will beat that anyway.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

No, it's "lowered to 1 when attacking, regardless of other Initiative modifiers" - Bio-Plasma strikes at I1 against foes in cover...and you wouldn't waste a supply drop on them. Nearly every unit will be in cover, or a vehicle - Gargoyles won't be any good.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> No, it's "lowered to 1 when attacking, regardless of other Initiative modifiers" - Bio-Plasma strikes at I1 against foes in cover...and you wouldn't waste a supply drop on them. Nearly every unit will be in cover, or a vehicle - Gargoyles won't be any good.


The attack is worked out at double the model's initiative value.
Since the initiative value is 1, it strikes at 2.


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

dude, you guys are forgetting lictors. they DS into terrain, and if the attacker has one modle touching an objective (which is terrain) then he claims it, even if the defender is pressent! auto win for the win!


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## Ensanguined Priest (Feb 11, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> :laugh: I see you also play Blood Angels...so, perhaps you won't want to play Nids at all...especially with a Ground Observer...:wink:


I hate you, stop talking about things i dont know 
Ill probably give both a go. Its just ive been doin BA for about 8 years now, and only started Nids last year, so kinda in a xeno-y mood atm 

Cant wait for that bloody book to come out tho....


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Dafistofmork said:


> dude, you guys are forgetting lictors. they DS into terrain, and if the attacker has one modle touching an objective (which is terrain) then he claims it, even if the defender is pressent! auto win for the win!


Ok, let's think here.
You have to have it there for...
How long?
Until the end of the game?

Wow, that will be easy with your 2+ cover sa-
OH WAIT, FLAMERS.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Dafistofmork said:


> dude, you guys are forgetting lictors. they DS into terrain, and if the attacker has one modle touching an objective (which is terrain) then he claims it, even if the defender is pressent! auto win for the win!


Not if they can't be placed...they have to touch a Bastion to claim it. Trust me, Lictors aren't necessary - especially when your reserves table looks like this:
Turn 1- 3+ Turn 2 - 2+ Turn 3 - Auto. They would not live until turn 5, nevermind turn 7 (RGL, as usual) 

Also: @Exsanguined Priest - A BA Army could potentially table the opponent on turn one. It really wouldn't be hard.


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

well, thats what your neverending broods are for!


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## Ensanguined Priest (Feb 11, 2009)

Naw, just destroy things, dont worry about objectives, i dont really foresee many gaunts in my PS army, but thats probably just my style 
Warriors, Raveners, perhaps gargs, load of stealers and few tyrants xD
( Or Dante and 40 assault marines, depending on my mood :wink: )

But TKE, course it wouldn't be hard, their Blood Angels  
But, Would you like to share why you think that? Or are you going to make me wait till Saturday?... 

Is RGL an always, or just for some missiony things? I really dislike it for some reason it


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I dont think that PS games last for 5-7 turns, I think it might only be for 4.
Damn, need to get my hands on that rulebook again


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> I dont think that PS games last for 5-7 turns, I think it might only be for 4.
> Damn, need to get my hands on that rulebook again


TKE actually HAS one.
So listen to him


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

RGL is constant. I'd say the Design Team prefer that syatem for 40k than the always 6 system of WFB. Hormagaunts may be king Gaunt in PS, but I'm biased, I just love them anyway...


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> RGL is constant. I'd say the Design Team prefer that syatem for 40k than the always 6 system of WFB. Hormagaunts may be king Gaunt in PS, but I'm biased, I just love them anyway...


What's RGL?
And yeah, Hormagaunts are pretty damn cool!
I Catalyst them and hurtle them into units in cover :biggrin:
Costs so much less than giving them all Flesh Hooks, and you only need 1 alive for them to score, so as long as you don't bite off more than you can chew you'll be sweet.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

RGL- random game length (at a guess)
I HATE hormogaunts with a massive passion. They used to be astonishingly expensive and are now just over-points and pretty rubbish. Give me their points worth in spinegaunts any day.. even if Im only shooting then they are better.

15pt hormogaunt has -1WS, -1T and -1I then a genestealer... I dont think that a 12" charge is worth the loss of the stats
10pt hormogaunt has +1WS and the 12" charge over 2 spinegaunts... but there are 2 of them and they get more attacks when they charge (not to mention guns)

Either way I dont like them.. if you have a job that requires the exact balance between the 2 hormogaunts might be useful but personally I build specific units, either built to kill or bog down... yes fast assault is another option but when it neither kills or bogs down its pretty useless- spending 300pts on a unit to rapidly attack and bog down the enemy is almost always more expensive then suffering an extra turn of shooting and then charging in


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Random Game Length. Planetstrike will give you a reason to use a squad of 32 Hormagaunts, and I don't just mean Supply Drop...

EDIT: Fucking ninja'd by Tim/Steve! :laugh:


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## KarlFranz40k (Jan 30, 2009)

I think using raveners as deepstrikers in planetstrike is a wee bit fishy, ain't they ment to come form ABOVE not BELOW?? :laugh:

Not that I'm complaining :biggrin: Own 3 of them so they may finally see some more action.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm really excited about this new induction of 40k, it's exactly what I heard alot of people complaining about(Stale missions, the tiers had been figured out).

Anything in that book like formations? I'm trying to see if playing vanilla chaos marines has any benefit(Nevermind raptors finally being a better choice than cult marines)


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

No, no formations, but, since the main problem with nilla CSM is that they can't get T5 and FnP at the minute maybe they'll see a bit more use...:wink: Units of 20 of them, to be precise...


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> No, no formations, but, since the main problem with nilla CSM is that they can't get T5 and FnP at the minute maybe they'll see a bit more use...:wink: Units of 20 of them, to be precise...


RUB IT IN OUR FACE MORE WILL YOU?
I REALLY WANT TO BE MORE PISSED OFF WITH YOU T_T


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

At least draws will be hard to get, only 2 missions allow them - and _everything_ being scoring is nice too...


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> At least draws will be hard to get, only 2 missions allow them - and _everything_ being scoring is nice too...


*sobs loudly*


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Sisters of Battle? No, neither they nor Daemonhunters get any real boosts...pity. I honestly can't see a huge benefit to playing them in these missions. 

Necrons get no offensive bonus, and Chaos may as well not have one...


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Sisters of Battle? No, neither they nor Daemonhunters get any real boosts...pity. I honestly can't see a huge benefit to playing them in these missions.
> 
> Necrons get no offensive bonus, and Chaos may as well not have one...


With SOB, deep striking sisters Repentia?
If they use their 'fall forward' move, then they charge the enemy, IN THEIR TURN.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

If the defender gets a full shooting phase, they're toast - probably even half a shooting phase - automatic weapons on bastions etc shoot first, at the closest unit - so they'll go a dozen different directions, most of them a variation of into the dirt...


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> If the defender gets a full shooting phase, they're toast - probably even half a shooting phase - automatic weapons on bastions etc shoot first, at the closest unit - so they'll go a dozen different directions, most of them a variation of into the dirt...


Silence <_<
The point is they're awesome!


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

No, but Seraphim get Melta Bombs all round don't they? And multiple Flamers...hmmmm. SoBs might not NEED a boost...


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> No, but Seraphim get Melta Bombs all round don't they? And multiple Flamers...hmmmm. SoBs might not NEED a boost...


Ooh, that's gonna HURT!
But yeah, SOB are flamer-happy.
So deep striking a squad with like 4 will be wonderful!


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

Add a Canoness and watch the fireworks. Especially with a decent inv. save and a flamer; that unit could do quite a bit in their first turn. My plan was to take 4 units of seraphim, 2 of assault marines, a callidus assassin, some death cultists, and a few orbital strikes. I'm trying to play a game where nothing actually starts on the board.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

GKs get a pretty big boost.. a basic squad can become a DSing squad by just moving them to the FA slot. No extra costs.. so you can now DS and assault immediately with your knights. THat's a pretty big nasty there.. and they have their homers, so once the first squad is down, you can deploy the others even closer to the enemy.

DSing a cannoness and having her assault immediately is also very nice. she's a bitch to muder in CC with her 2+ inv save.

Seraphim landing around you with flamers and eviscerators ready is also pretty annoying.

The only problem would be that you don't have those homers to land safely. That can be solved using a few GKs though.. drop one of their squads, then abuse their homer.
And dump those repentia right in front of your enemy, when they shoot at them, first girl to go is their mistress.. making them LD5. He will have to annihilate the squad completely, or they will 'break' and assault them in their turn.

Dropping a couple of Penitents right in front of the enemy might also be quite scary. You can use them as cover for your regular sissies, because your enemy will HAVE to shoot them down, else he's got a close combat problem with 3 of those monstrous killing machines tearing up his lines.
Sisters can walk in behind them and shoot anything that is not engaged with them. And if your token GKs have landed, you can position your SoB squads so their flamers are in optimal position to burn enemies right in front of them. ( like say, just up to the aegis line he put down, so you can use it as cover yourself for return fire and counter assaults )


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> And dump those repentia right in front of your enemy, when they shoot at them, first girl to go is their mistress.. making them LD5. He will have to annihilate the squad completely, or they will 'break' and assault them in their turn.


Aaw yeah, that's a good point actually!
If you give them a full squad, and spread them out after they touch down, then the amount of firepower they'll need to wipe them out completely is incredible!
Just gotta make sure they don't pie-plate them.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Easy.. when you DS em.. they're allowed to run.. so you can spread them out to be less pie plate friendly.


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## b.anthracis (Nov 18, 2008)

And daemons are completly screwed? Cause no unit has deepstrike, but daemonic assault. So they are the only army which can not assault after DSing, or?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

b.anthracis said:


> And daemons are completly screwed? Cause no unit has deepstrike, but daemonic assault. So they are the only army which can not assault after DSing, or?


They can't normally, and they'd probably be too powerful if they could.
I mean, HALF the army comes in on turn one, and you get fairly cheap Monstrous Creatures deep striking too!


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## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

Winterous said:


> Aaw yeah, that's a good point actually!
> If you give them a full squad, and spread them out after they touch down, then the amount of firepower they'll need to wipe them out completely is incredible!
> Just gotta make sure they don't pie-plate them.


Maybe I am missing something, but when has it ever been hard to kill 20 models with T3 and a 4+ save? Equivalent points of anything with a gun will kill them. Not to mention the fact that even if some survive shooting, they also have to survive the attacks of whatever it is they charge since their initiative sucks. Repentia are only good at assaulting tanks.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

The problem is, that as soon as they make a leadership test from say, a pinning weapon, and their mistress has been removed as a casualty ( something you want to do here ), they will most likely fail, with their LD5, causing them to go nuts and run into your lines.
If they are up close and personal with them, you can't shoot the rest of them.
So tossing a pie plate on them kinda gets them in your face. You will have to use other means for it. And even then, when the shooting ends, they will be in your face anyway.

That all said.. yes.. they DO suck.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Pauly55 said:


> Maybe I am missing something, but when has it ever been hard to kill 20 models with T3 and a 4+ save? Equivalent points of anything with a gun will kill them. Not to mention the fact that even if some survive shooting, they also have to survive the attacks of whatever it is they charge since their initiative sucks. Repentia are only good at assaulting tanks.


That's just it though, if you have 20 of the things all spread out, then they won't be THAT easy to kill.
Heavy bolters will destroy them, given, so against armies with lots of HB's or AP4 guns this tactic won't work particularly well.


But, the enemy has 2 options really.

Shoot them lots and hope to kill them all, otherwise they WILL fail their morale check, and will likely charge them in their own turn.
Don't shoot them, or shoot them a little and kill <1/4 of the, and either counter-charge or risk being charged next turn.

Now, the 2nd option really isn't one they will consider is it?
Unless they have assault units at the ready, which is unlikely since the defender is encouraged to stock up on heavy support, they won't do very well in that assault, and will quite possibly be shredded when the sisters attack back.

If they choose the 1st option, then they aren't shooting at the REST of your army.
Which is very likely a bunch of battle sisters who've deep striked next to the enemy and are presently shooting them lots.


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## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

Ensanguined Priest said:


> Supply Drop Sounds Awesome :shok:
> *Creams Pants*


lol you haven't even seen what it does yet, and yet you still cream your pants. Many, actually make the every one would calll that Extreme Extreme Premature Ejaculation..... or you just get exited easily.....


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

What about DSing Winged Tyranid Warriors? They are also fast attack so you could have 6 units of them DS and assault when they arrive...


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Lupercal101 said:


> lol you haven't even seen what it does yet


We have actually, TKE told us.
Gives like 3 units you own assault and defensive grenades, and melta bombs.



darklove said:


> What about DSing Winged Tyranid Warriors? They are also fast attack so you could have 6 units of them DS and assault when they arrive...


And yes, VERY yes.
Melee warriors are awesome, their only downfall is they aren't fast enough to get into melee reliably (with wings OR leaping), and are too expensive to risk casualties getting in.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Awesome as Homers are, Ground Observers almost negate the requirement for them. Repentia suck balls. Melee warriors cost more points, ergo fewer of them, than Raveners. Who said Daemons couldn't DSA in Planetstrike? I certainly never did, and I've got the book right here...:wink:


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## Ensanguined Priest (Feb 11, 2009)

Lupercal101 said:


> lol you haven't even seen what it does yet, and yet you still cream your pants. Many, actually make the every one would calll that Extreme Extreme Premature Ejaculation..... or you just get exited easily.....


Haha, well we do know what it does :



Winterous said:


> We have actually, TKE told us.
> Gives like 3 units you own assault and defensive grenades, and melta bombs.



But yea, think how my Gf feels 

Im REALLY psyched for PlanetStrike. I dunno why but just gets me really excited, i cant wait!


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## Ensanguined Priest (Feb 11, 2009)

Ooh also, just made the order for my first batch of Raveners! xD


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

My plan: 27 warriors, 9 raveners, a Trygon, 2 flyrants, crapload of gaunts w/ 'without number' rule, maybe a harridan. That should make the average IG player feel less happy after the first turn. Go large scale games!:victory:


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

w/o number can really make anyone feel unhappy if it's on a unit that can deepstrike, is that possible? I mean.. DS down, shoot, assault, get killed and take some buggers with you, next turn rinse, repeat..


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

Dunno, I don't have the book. Would be pretty sweet though...


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## Ensanguined Priest (Feb 11, 2009)

I dont think you could do that, in the Tyranid codex it says that w/o number brings them back from the nid player board edge. Even if they can outflank etc. still can only come from the edge, and anyway nothing that can have without number can deepstrike (normally) so no fear of that DS, shoot, assault and re-entry 
Well, not unless they take the Sustained Attack stratagem... :victory:


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

Hehehe... Most of our Apoc/Planetstrike combos look more interesting for the IG:suicide:


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## Ensanguined Priest (Feb 11, 2009)

I really dont look forward to playing against IG
Hell, they can field too many tanks in a regular game, as a Defender its just stupid amounts...


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

We're all too poor for tanks. I'll be up against 3000 points of infantry, a Leman Russ, and Yarrick.


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## Ensanguined Priest (Feb 11, 2009)

Your a lucky man Inq Varrius, one of the guys i play against has like 16 leman russ, hes been collecting them for like years...


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

:grin: I like my cheap friends.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Inquisitor Varrius said:


> My plan: 27 warriors, 9 raveners, a Trygon, 2 flyrants, crapload of gaunts w/ 'without number' rule, maybe a harridan. That should make the average IG player feel less happy after the first turn. Go large scale games!:victory:


I actually recommend not using Apoc...It makes things a lot easier for the Defender, more than the attacker. Too many mishaps...


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## Thlaylie (Jun 8, 2008)

Why is no one mentioning the Firestorm that the attacker gets to start? I think I will go full Nidzilla with The Red Terror added to make 10 MC's.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Thlaylie said:


> Why is no one mentioning the Firestorm that the attacker gets to start? I think I will go full Nidzilla with The Red Terror added to make 10 MC's.


The attacker gets the Firestorm, what's your point?
Yes it hurts, but not THAT much.

And why the Red Terror?
He's not that good.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Or in the current Codex...


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Red Terror DS'ing next to Marneus Calgar, assaults and eats him before he gets to strike back... not shabby for 104pts (since Red is a MC ravener he has the DS rules), especially when you throw in the 9" move/assault thing, means even if he scatters he could well still be in assault range (though no fleet/beast rules to pimp him up).


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Oh yes, what an efficient way to use 100 points.
POTENTIALLY instant-killing a model which is probably going to be in reserves anyway.
The Red Terror is a one-trick pony, he can insta-gib, great.

HE'S NOT EVEN IN THE CURRENT CODEX.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Calm down you aussie! Jeez, thought of losing the Ashes too much? 

If you got Calgar like that it'd be a good spend, and hilarious to boot.


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## Thlaylie (Jun 8, 2008)

This is my reason for using The Red Terror:
















(he has an additional set of Death Leaper scything arms in place of those lower Lictor Scything arms now)

He's the whole reason I started Tyranids and the entire reason for my army. Without him...

Check out my Photobucket and see what I have done since I built him:
http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k176/Thlaylie/?start=all


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

@ TKE: I've never eaten Calgar, but I've eaten Yarrick and Dante (BA, is that the right name?) so maybe the horror will come back into my list.

And I know Apoc makes the defense easier, but we alternate enough so it'll all work out.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Thlaylie said:


> Stuff


O_O

*twitch*


DEAR LORD MAN!
AWHERJKAWHJRG32q5ip3472;oqaASWHFRJdlkawkajhbfkuq238NHKSAJZHF>

But what's with the Gaunt-head Rippers?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Nice model. Have to admit, I'd be happy enough using it as a Trygon, but it's your games.


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## Thlaylie (Jun 8, 2008)

Thank You. I figure if someone complains it's not in the Codex, I'll just use him as a Trygon as that's GW's lame excuse for not having him in the latest Codex (that The Red Terror was basically a small trygon).

Gaunt headed rippers represent the 3rd edition codex "Exceptional Size" mutation, they get +1 S and +1T.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Thlaylie said:


> Thank You. I figure if someone complains it's not in the Codex, I'll just use him as a Trygon as that's GW's lame excuse for not having him in the latest Codex (that The Red Terror was basically a small trygon).
> 
> Gaunt headed rippers represent the 3rd edition codex "Exceptional Size" mutation, they get +1 S and +1T.


Err, GW's excuse for taking out the 'unique' Tyranids is that they didn't fit in the slightest.
They went against EVERYTHING that symbolises the Tyranids.

And yeah, mutations were fun 
I had a whole squad of Ripper Mutants (only 3 species in the whole army) with VENOM CANNON!
They (squad of 10) shot a CSM squad, hit thrice, wounded once, he passed


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## Thlaylie (Jun 8, 2008)

I thought the fluff behind The Red Terror, Old One Eye and death Leaper quite good and it explained why these offshoots developed. They should be brought back at the least. Mutations would naturally be occurring all the time in a Tyranid swarm and singular units would naturally adapt to their environments after being left behind. I believe it was part of the "nerf all other armys so smurfs reign supreme" movement at the time when they removed them.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Thlaylie said:


> I thought the fluff behind The Red Terror, Old One Eye and death Leaper quite good and it explained why these offshoots developed. They should be brought back at the least. Mutations would naturally be occurring all the time in a Tyranid swarm and singular units would naturally adapt to their environments after being left behind. I believe it was part of the "nerf all other armys so smurfs reign supreme" movement at the time when they removed them.


I think they removed it because it was REALLY COMPLICATED.
Seriously, to make any major use of it, you had to heavily restrict what you took, and taking only Gaunts and a Hive Tyrant is BORING.
They wanted people to make interesting lists, and Mutations (how they were, I agree that something like it would be good) restricted that heaps.

I agree that the special 'nids had good fluff, but they really only fit in a campaign or scenario.

Anyway, they supplemented the lack of Mutations by making Biomorphs better, now it's just customise your units, instead of customise some units heavily.


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## Thlaylie (Jun 8, 2008)

You are right about the complication, but that's what makes it fun.


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