# Chaos Havocs



## Lopspoon (Jun 23, 2009)

Havocs

These guys are often overlooked by the flashier heavy support choices in a CSM army. However, they can be a cheaper and less flashy alternative for Obliterators.

The standard havoc costs the same as a standard chaos space marine and has the exact same stat line. This means that if you for some reason feel like taking units of more than 10 guys you should take standard chaos space marine as they can take objectives. They carry a bolt pistol, a bolter, frag and krak grenades as well as a hefty chainsword and bolter. Thanks to such a plethora of equipment the havocs can deal with most enemies that come along. 

Mathhammer

10 Havocs on the Charge = 30 attacks = 15 hits vs Meq = 5 dead Meq
10 Havocs without the Charge = 20 attacks = 10 hits vs Meq = 3.33 dead Meq

But Havocs are really taken for their ability to take multiple heavy or special weapons. The weapons are:

(I assume 4 of each)

Against Enemy Armour

Lascannons
AP 10 - 2.22 Penetrating Shots
AP 11 - 1.77 Penetrating Shots
AP 12 - 1.33 Penetrating Shots
AP 13 - 0.88 Penetrating Shots
AP 14 - 0.44 Penetrating Shots

Missile Launchers (Krak)
AP 10 - 1.77 Penetrating Shots
AP 11 - 1.33 Penetrating Shots
AP 12 - 0.88 Penetrating Shots
AP 13 - 0.44 Penetrating Shots
AP 14 - 0.00 Penetrating Shots

Autocannon
AP 10 - 2.66 Penetrating Shots
AP 11 - 1.76 Penetrating Shots
AP 12 - 0.88 Penetrating Shots
AP 13 - 0.00 Penetrating Shots
AP 14 - 0.00 Penetrating Shots

Meltagun at 6 Inches or Less
AP 10 - 2.44 Penetrating Shots
AP 11 - 2.22 Penetrating Shots
AP 12 - 2.00 Penetrating Shots
AP 13 - 1.77 Penetrating Shots
AP 14 - 1.55 Penetrating Shots

5 Havocs with 4 Lascannons = 215
5 Havocs with 4 Missile Launchers = 155
5 Havocs with 4 Autocannons = 155
5 Havocs with 4 Meltaguns = 115

Remember 3 Obliterators = 225

If people appreciate this, I’d be happy to do this for anti-infantry Havoc weapons.


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

I think that there is a place for Missile Launcher Havoks (against Eldar and Dark Eldar, mostly) and for Heavy Bolter Havoks to deal with hordes. I suppose one could field autocannon squads as well, but I find myself very unimpressed by that weapon.

Anything heavier would be better served by Obliterators and anything lighter would be better served by Chosen.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

I run a 10 man squad of Havocs in my Emperors Children army and I find it works well.
They are armed with 4 meltas, AC with PF and a Rhino. I use them to go after any AV 14 or any small elite unit I want killed. 
I know I could drop 2 meltas and make them scoring but I already have 4 scoring units and I find the extra 2 melta very useful.
The rest of my heavy support is used on 3 oblits and a vindicator but I may take that out.


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## Lopspoon (Jun 23, 2009)

I am a big fan of using 4 missile launchers, it can take out light or medium armored targets and can use the frag missiles to deal with Ork and Imperial Guard scum. I also find you can use Havoc's in games where I do not want to be called a cheesy beady goblin but still want to be able to deal with tanks and transports.

Havoc's are also much less likely to be targeted in turn 1 and when they face fire from instant kill weapons, they are less worried than obliterators.


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## Frederick Destroyer (Jul 28, 2009)

great thread. Could you do some anti meq and anti teq calculations too?


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## Praxiss (Aug 13, 2009)

I started out using a havoc squad with 2 lascannons and 2 autocannon. I auite like th AC as it can take on light armour and rip through infantry quite nicely.

havign read thsi thread though i am more tempted to take a 4 missile squad.

Nice thread


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

Praxiss said:


> I started out using a havoc squad with 2 lascannons and 2 autocannon. I auite like th AC as it can take on light armour and rip through infantry quite nicely.
> 
> havign read thsi thread though i am more tempted to take a 4 missile squad.
> 
> Nice thread


ML Havocs are great against Eldar as their low toughness / high save infantry can really be hurt from frag missiles and their vehicles have low enough armor that S8 can reliably hurt them. 

Plus krak missiles wound avatars on a 2, wraithlords on a 4 and deny their armor saves (though Avatars still have a great Invulnerable) and you can fire them at wave serpents instead of wasting lascannon or melta shots on their energy feild.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Well its nice to see the numbers support my occasional use of the autocannon.


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## Inquisitor Malaclypse (Dec 6, 2008)

I rather like the idea of these guys as assault troopers. load these guys out with IoS, PW and like 3 flamers and you may have an effective anti 'Nid unit.

anti a lot of things really.

+rep to Lopspoon for putting things in perspective; maybe this will change the boring Oblit/Vindie load out that CSM armies are plagued with.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I hope so Malaclypse far to many CSM players have a hard on for vindi's, and obliterators.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Faced 4 heavy bolters and they were superb
strength 5 3 shots is absolutely fantastic
However I do like the missile launcher for versatility but the scatter is what kills it for me
also except orks and kroot ap6 is not that great
i would take two squads personally
One melta's in a rhino
Another heavy bolters
quite cheap and very deadly


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## Lopspoon (Jun 23, 2009)

Do to some requests, here is more Mathammer, yay!

Against Terminators:

Lascannon 2.22 Killls
Missile Launcher 0.37 Killls
Autocannon 0.74 Killls
Heavy Bolter 0.88 Killls
Plasma Gun
(One Shot) 2.22 Killls
(Two Shots) 4.44 Killls
Meltagun 2.22 Killls

Against Meq:

Lascannon 2.22 Killls
Missile Launcher 2.22 Killls
Autocannon 1.78 Kills
Heavy Bolter 1.78 Killls
Plasma Gun
(One Shot) 2.22 Killls
(Two Shots) 4.44 Killls
Meltagun 2.22 Killls

Against Geq:

Lascannon 2.22 Killls
Missile Launcher 2.22 Killls
Autocannon 4.44 Kills
Heavy Bolter 6.67
Plasma Gun
(One Shot) 2.22 Killls
(Two Shots) 4.44 Killls
Meltagun 2.22 Killls

Cost For Havoc Squads of 8 (4 Regulars, 4 Special Weapons)

Lascannon -260
Missile Launcher -200
Autocannon -200
Heavy Bolter -180
Plasma -160
Melta -140

10 Bolter Shots from Regular Space Marines

1.11 Dead Havocs 
This wound could very well be put on one of the regular havocs so you maintain your shooting capabilities

0.55 Dead Obliterators
In a 1/2 Chance you lost a single wound, pretty good!

But if you get hit by anything str 8 or more, the havoc squad will only loose a standard marine while the obliterators have a 1/3 chance of keeping their firepower the same.

Also, if you want to bring along melta, I`d suggest chosen, they can infiltrate which means you can get close to the weak enemy side armour.

Sorry if anything is misspelled I`m on a foreign keyboard which has some of the keys in different places.


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## Frederick Destroyer (Jul 28, 2009)

great thread. I really hope that this makes more people diversify their armies. Actually, I hope that no one else reads this so everyone facing me expects 9 oblits or 3 vindi's so my regular havocs cause...well, havoc as they don't have the number of shots to kill them. This is an excellent thread and leads me to believe that I can use an army of footsloggers to get the job done. Who needs tanks anyways!


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

I would never take no tanks or no oblits
Oblits are great simply because of their diversity but I'm really not a fan of any of the CSM tanks though the vindicator is pure gold


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## Frederick Destroyer (Jul 28, 2009)

that's exactly what I hope. I don't want other people to use my strategy. The point of no tanks is that everyone else will have them and so opponents will be expecting me to have tanks. Thus they will bring tank killers. Imagine that they have two squads with tank killing power. Those tank killing squads (with lascannons, meltas, etc) will only kill one marine per turn per weapon. That's effective, but when I have 60 marines coming down on them, they just can't kill all of them. Think about it this way: 4lascannon shots will kill a AV 13 tank worth at least 150 points, while they will only kill 2 marines (assume BS of 3) worth 30 points. While I lose some firepower, as long as I have meltas and lascannons in squads of 10 then I will not lose my own firepower. I lose speed of course, but with ds termies and bikers/raptors that is negated.

Imagine how screwed a player who has 8 meltas and 2 lascannons will be when I field 50 marines. You are going to kill my guys, but not fast enough. And once I do get into close combat you won't be killing me much longer.

The point of this strategy isn't that it's the best use of points; it's that most people won't expect it and will be screwed when they bring lots of tank killing weapons. And everyone brings at least 8 meltas/lascannons/other tank killing stuff.


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## Lopspoon (Jun 23, 2009)

I have to wonder how effective a footslogging army is at getting objectives that are in the enemie`s deployment zone, as well those lascannons that will not be shooting at your tanks will be shooting at your HQ, your monstress creatures and your terminators. However I do enjoy the idea of negating his melta weapondry. It will also be difficult to get into combat with those 50 marines if your opponent has transports and is able to pack up and move away. 

Thanks again for commenting
Lopspoon


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## flankman (Jan 26, 2009)

you forgot to add the S VS T in your melee calcs


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