# IG Veterans in 6th?



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

I haven't used my Vets much in 6th ed and I'm curious what is the best role for them in the new edition? My lists are the usual Autocamping troops backed by LRBTs and Vendetta. 

How do people feel about putting them in Vendettas now? What about just throwing em in a Chimera?

Does anyone even bother with Doctrines anymore or are they too expensive?


----------



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I like to run

ADL w/QC

Lord Comm w/ camo
Harker
Vets w/ 3 snipers and ac hwt w/ forward sentries 


Lots of chances at precision shot fun, I have the LC man the QC.

Effective? It kills stuff and is fun to pick on special things in units


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

I like it but I'm kind of thinking something somewhat cheaper for an allied force to unlock a Vendetta or Leman Russ. I want the Vets to still be effective though.


----------



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Everything i listed with a vendetta is 530 ish


----------



## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Some things should never change when fielding Vets, regardless of the edition.

Special Weapons choices should always be Melta or Plasma....all the rest are lesser choices by either been poor at actually doing much damage (Snipers/GL's), or not utilising the BS value (Flamers).

Some IG'ers crap on about Get's hot been a killer for using Plasma, so forgo using one of the most powerful and effective weapons for lesser ones....what a hoot, under - utilising our best Troops due to a 1 in 6 chance of dying, unfreaking believable.

Personally though, I would consider suicidal 5-man ST Squads with 2 Meltas to do the early game backfield AV duty, which makes it easier to accept that ChiMeltaVets hold back for those first few turns like I say further down.

While I'm on the subject of weapons, the most useful and versatile Heavy Weapons are AC and Lascannon, the rest are poorer choices unless as used as Hull weapons on vehicles (HB/HF).

Vets never ever should be on foot, well until forced out of a vehicle...T3 guys die far too easily to far too many widely used enemy weapons.

I disliked Vets in Vendettas in 5th Ed but seen as the Flyer is now more durable and likely to last until late game turns I can see having Plasma Vets for late-game Objective taking.

Vets in Chimeras are still viable but need to be held back for a few turns so HP's don't get stripped off too early, and leave the Vets on foot and in range of too much enemy firepower once that happens. 

Mech lists should have the maximum amount of vehicles possible, so for that reason I don't see Hybrid foot/mech lists been that effective now. So Vets in Chimeras, Artillery at the back in an ADL, and Hellhound and Russ varients out front moving forward slowly.

Doctrines have never been popular, especially not on multiple Squads, because it's far more effective to just field more bodies.

Bear in mind I'm talking about competitive gaming here...this is the Tactics Forum afterall.


----------



## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

I agree on the plasmas, HOBO. I run infantry gunline due to lack of Chimeras (I'm pretty frugal). I play Salamanders and Tyranids routinely, and both my opponents have learned that my gunline is very vulnerable to templates. I counter their deep striking templates by spreading out my infantry so that my deployment zone is filled. In the middle of that infantry blob, I stick my plasma vets. Flame templates fail to reach them during my opponent's turn; the next, the plasma vets move forward and hose the deep-struck unit. If you deep strike vs my army, you're going to die. Pretty much the way things go.

Just a thought about vets' place in a blob guard army.


----------



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

I've heard throwing in a single sniper can be good because of the chance of pinning your opponent. Common tactic with Firewarrios and carbines.


----------



## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

Arcane said:


> I've heard throwing in a single sniper can be good because of the chance of pinning your opponent. Common tactic with Firewarrios and carbines.


It's not worth it. You've got a 75% chance to hit, a 50% chance to wound, then whatever you're shooting at has to fail an armor save (excepting the occasional rend) and then a pinning test. 

That's a very low percentage chance just to make one squad unable to move or fire anything but snap shots. You're better off spending the points on something useful.


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I've been running a fully pumped up vet squad in a vendetta and its been doing sterling work for me:

3 plasmaguns, plasma pistol and demolitions doctrine.

That pumps the squad up to 155pts but it adds the mid-field punch that I've really been needing. I'm willing to accept the unit is basically a throw away and it'll die pretty easily once it hits the table but its there to target an enemy unit the rest of my army will struggle with.
My big problem to date has been MCs and TEQs.... which vets mess up pretty easily. Add to that the meltabombs from demolitions and I can deploy into terrain, shoot the crap out of an MC and then hit t with S8 AP1 combat attacks if it charges me (as few MCs have assault grenade equivalents).


----------



## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Call me old fashioned but I am a fan of keeping things simple: Lots and lots of infantry everywhere to utilise the guard's "we roll more dice than you" strengths. Then just whack the Veterans in Chimeras on the flanks with melta or plasma (though I prefer putting the plasma in more disposable squads as gets hot is an issue, 2in 6 chance when rapid firing).


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

A plasma vet has a 21% chance of killing himself if he rapid fires.... but if your standing in front of a marine squad armed with bolters you have a 100% chance of dying from return fire if you don't kill them. Personally I'll take that chance of dying.

If I needed anti-tank I'd take meltas every time, but I've found my pair of devil dogs work beautifully, so I need my vets for plasma duty.


----------



## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Tim/Steve said:


> A plasma vet has a 21% chance of killing himself if he rapid fires.... but if your standing in front of a marine squad armed with bolters you have a 100% chance of dying from return fire if you don't kill them. Personally I'll take that chance of dying.


That's fine and it's down to personal preference. I just prefer to pump the points into more bodies and more lasgun saturation when it comes to anti-infantry. Regardless of the mathhammer, I just seem to have shitty luck with the plasma and wipe myself out before they have much chance to be really effective.


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

HOBO said:


> due to a 1 in 6 chance of dying,


Thats only the chance of the gets hot, those odds are 1 in 9 (1 in 12 with carapace armour); making that argument even worse.


----------



## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Unless you are rapid firing...


----------



## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I think the only changes really are that plas/ melta vets still need transport to make them effective. Chimeras need to be used with a little more tact than before, but the valk/ vendetta options have improved. They still have their place that for sure. I was thinking about it though and i have never used vets as part of my infantry gunline. Allways in hybrid lists or full mech. I hybrid lists as hobo mentioned they are a little easier to deal with under the new rules, but pair up a chimera full of vets with a demolisher works well. The chimera can use the demolisher as cover until you are ready to go out and fry something. It has worked well for me over the years and there is no real reason why it still wont work well if done properly.


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Straken's_Fist said:


> Unless you are rapid firing...


Rapid fire, last I checked, doesn't increase the likelihood of gets hot on a roll by roll basis. So yeah you have double the chances, but each of those chances are still 1 in 9 or 1 in 12.

All you've done with rapid fire is reduce the time the averages work out to potentially causing one wound on yourself, since it still takes 9-12 shots.


----------



## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

darkreever said:


> So yeah you have double the chances


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

And what exactly is your point here? Two grots are more likely to kill that veteran than a rapid firing plasmagun, and they wield half range lasguns for fucks sake.


A veteran guardsman rapid firing a plasmagun against marines averages 1.1 kills with the risk of gets hot causing .22 wounds.

While its true that toting either a lasgun or meltagun will reduce that risk to zero, his kill output is also reduced. .155 for the lasgun and .56 for the meltagun. Over the course of five rounds of shooting the plasma vet will do more damage than his melta or lasgun counterpart. Hell it will even do better than the meltagun against light armour, and as well against armour 12.


----------



## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

Too bad that veteran with a plasma gun costs what 22 points? vs your marines 16?


----------



## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

It looks like the ways to play vets hasn't really changed all that much, with your three basic roles still being fire support, suicide squads or tank/TEQ/MC hunters.

I personally have melta vets in chimeras still in my mech list, and my 'special forces' list uses plasma vets in vendettas. I haven't used them, typically, in my gunline lists, where I prefer to spend the points on cramming in more autocannons or tanks.


----------



## vonklaude (May 16, 2010)

JelloSea said:


> Too bad that veteran with a plasma gun costs what 22 points? vs your marines 16?


IMO the thing is to put the plasma on the CCS and leave the demo-vets with melta. In part because things your vets want to demo are likely also things you'll need melta for. So let's say plasma-CCS (21/fig) and melta-demo-vets (25/fig). Both in Chimeras.

1.1*16 is 17.6
.22*21 is 4.62

For every 17.6pts of Marines you consume in firey plasma, you lose 4.62pts of Imperial Guard to Gets Hot!


----------

