# Ranking Psykers from 40k



## magnus962 (Mar 8, 2010)

So I was sitting down and finally reading through the Eisenhorn novels by Dan Abnett and was thinking about all the different psykers he has been encountering through the books. I have previously read many novels from 40k including Ravenor, Thousand Sons, Gaunts Ghosts, and so on. Throughout these there is sometimes different "Classes" of psykers listed but that is not always the case (especially when referring to horus heresy novels).

I was wondering what people thought in terms of how these various different characters rank in terms of psychic ability? Lets hear your thoughts!

My first guesses of psykers i can remember off the top of my head would be something like this:

1) Emperor
2) Magnus the Red
3) Ahriman
4) Thousand Sons elites
5) 40k Librarians
6) Ravenor
7) Psyker "pets" from the Gaunts Ghost novels in The Saint (the ones that got in Cuu's head)


These are obviously speculation and not exactly great since it is hard to balance one psyker versus another. However, I think it would be interesting to see where some of the more notable ones stack up. Do you guys think that Pre-Nikea librarians would be stronger or weaker than the current 40k librarians? Is Ravenor's psychic prowess really that high up in the chain, or are there a shitton of eldar that should be before him?


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## Blueberrypop (Apr 27, 2010)

What about the eldar


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Would Mephiston make the top 10?

Also, i think the Doom of Malan'tai should be up there somewhere.
Considering he did wipe out a whole eldar planet by himself using purely psychic powers.


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## General Disarray (Apr 28, 2010)

1)emperor
2)the hive mind, albeit you may not class it as a singular psyker 
3)magnus the red, especially since his elavation to daemon prince
4)Eldrad Ulthran as he was the most powerfull psyker of the elder before his apparent death in the 13th black crusade
5)certain higher ranking Greater Daemons of Tzeentch
6)Ahriman


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## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

Malcador the Sigilite (Spelling?) was a psker second only to the Emporer so he should be above Magnus.

Also on the list I think should be Mephiston, Eldrad and maybe Lords of Change


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Tigirius should be above Mephiston.


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## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

Should the hive mind be in the top 5? not really as its power isnt really a power that it means to use it just happens. Tigerus v.s memphiston = draw in my opinion as the are both chife librarians. Would you consider actual gods as psychers?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Both being a Chief Librarian doesn't mean they would both have the same power, Tigirius is known as one of the Imperium's most powerful psykers whereas Mephiston is known more for his iron will power, powerful but not in the same league as the man who's supposed to have been able to tap into the Hive Mind.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

1) emperor
2) hive mind
3) magnus 
4) eldrad
5) tiger


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Captain Stillios said:


> Malcador the Sigilite (Spelling?) was a psker second only to the Emporer so he should be above Magnus.


Actually if you look at the evidence, Magnus is clearly above Malcador, even pre-Daemon Prince. Its not even a competition after his elevation to Daemonhood.

The Emperor's initial plan was to have Magnus the Red sit on the Golden Throne to maintain the Imperial Webway and direct the Imperium's armies through the both the Imperial built section of the Webway and the Eldar network. Therefore its safe to assume that Magnus would have been able to maintain himself whilst on the Throne.

Malcador the Hero on the other hand, was the Emperor's second choice in sitting on the Golden Throne. Malcador had to maintain and keep the Imperial Webway sealed whilst the Emperor confronted Horus, merely a few hours later Malcador was drained and swiftly died. Thus its safe to assume that Magnus (being capable of surviving on the Golden Throne) is a more able Psyker. And thats without bringing the Primarch argument into it.

Aside from that, I personally think its very hard to even class the Hive Mind as a psyker. I wouldn't include it in the running at all.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

1) Jason Statham
2) The Emperor
3) Magnus the Red
4) Eldrad
5) Arhiman


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I would not put Ahriman on the list. Granted he is powerful, but he himself admits to using daemonic allies as the source for most of his strength. His followers are unaware of this fact. DoW Tempest.

imo:

1: The Emperor. Commonsense.
2: Magnus. Also commonsense.
3: Tigurius. One on one with the Hive Mind.
4: Ravenor. Made of awesome. Strength and cunning.
5: Eldrad. One on one with a Blackstone Fortress?! (theory)
6: Mephiston. Resisted the RT or BR (I don`t know) and grew stronger from it.
7: SwarmLord. A single Hive Tyrant able to transcend fleets and supercharge boneswords.
8: Doom of Malantai. Demolished a craftworld`s population!
9: Ahriman... Yeah, alright.
10: Probably some rogue alpha psyker or something...


I did not include the Hive mind, since it`s not a single entity. I also did not include daemons, because they`re not technically psykers.


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## Farseer Dave (May 4, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> 1: The Emperor. Commonsense.
> 2: Magnus. Also commonsense.
> 3: Tigurius. One on one with the Hive Mind.
> 4: Ravenor. Made of awesome. Strength and cunning.
> ...


i would deffinatly not rank Tigurius higher than Eldrad , the guy has been around for a hell of along time. he has shown he poseses extremmly powerful abilitys when it comes to scrying the future , Foresaw the heresy before the emperor for eg , he predicted the fall of iyanden and the 13th black crusade!

not only that but he defeated Abaddon in single combat proving he is no pushover when it comes to close up and personnal fighting!

id put eldrad rank 3 in raw power , the emperor and magnus probably beat him in pure destructive ability .

Farseer Dave.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> I would not put Ahriman on the list. Granted he is powerful, but he himself admits to using daemonic allies as the source for most of his strength. His followers are unaware of this fact. DoW Tempest.


Does it matter? All sorcerers use Daemonic Pacts, even Magnus.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

What interests me is the different grades of psykers, I think Ive read there are alpha or beta level forms of psychic abillities.


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## magnus962 (Mar 8, 2010)

Yeah they rank Alpha and Alpha plus as being the top dogs but really the lists that have been in this thread so far are all superior to that. Ravenor would an Alpha plus if I remember the books correctly but that would still put him fairly well below any of the superpower entities throughout the 40k galaxy.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Why Alpha being the top dogs. I reckon it would sound better being Omega, as in if they ever get possesed that's what it will be- Omega, the end.

I could see the Emperor being a Omega Plus level (if they followed my scale)


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

0) Me
1) Emperor
2) Magnus the Red 
3) Ahriham / Hive Mind
4) Varro Tigarus 
5) Eldrad Ulthan
6) Mephiston
7) Greater Daemons of Tzneetch


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## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

Anyone thought of including tzeentch?


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

I don't think it's fair to compare psykers of different races. The Eldar have much more refined psychic abilities than the psykers in the Imperium while the sorcerers of Chaos are further empowered by the Chaos Gods. So it's hard to fairly judge and compare their strength.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Depends what you look at in terms of power. Eldard can't level cities with his psychic might, but he can look into the threads of time and affect whole worlds destiny. It's arguable to know which of these is more powerful. Mephiston could almost certainly defeat Eldard one on one, but Eldard would ensure that meeting never took place in the first place. 

Aramoro


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> Depends what you look at in terms of power. Eldard can't level cities with his psychic might, but he can look into the threads of time and affect whole worlds destiny. It's arguable to know which of these is more powerful. Mephiston could almost certainly defeat Eldard one on one, but Eldard would ensure that meeting never took place in the first place.


That's exactly my point. What is the display of greater power? Leveling an entire city with their power, or seeing into the myriad of possible futures and arranging for the city to be destroyed without having to do it directly?

Also, I wouldn't necessarily proclaim Mephiston the stronger out of the two. Eldard did fight and defeat Abaddon once, an impressive feat for anyone. But it's hard to say. You have the oldest and greatest of the Eldar Farseers, who foresaw the Horus Heresy and the only Blood Angel to have completely overcome the Black Rage. Both are extremely powerful psykers.

But any fight between them would be any epic clash of legendary warriors.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

magnus962 said:


> Yeah they rank Alpha and Alpha plus as being the top dogs but really the lists that have been in this thread so far are all superior to that. Ravenor would an Alpha plus if I remember the books correctly but that would still put him fairly well below any of the superpower entities throughout the 40k galaxy.


Personally I dont hold that you can be ranked any higher than Alpha Plus. The difference in power beyond that level is ranked by sheer amount of willpower, which in turn enables you to manifest and control your abilities rather than them controlling you.

I consider the Emperor as an Alpha Plus Psyker, the difference between him and other Alpha Plus psykers being his unconquerable force of will, with which to direct his abilites.



warsmith7752 said:


> Anyone thought of including tzeentch?


Well hes not really a Psyker.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Does it matter? All sorcerers use Daemonic Pacts, even Magnus.


I think it matters because it`s not really their power is it? I`m sure any psyker could do the same, even Tigurius if he had the mind to. 

My scale was in regards to raw power and skill, which Magnus has daemons or not.


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## deathwatch_v (Mar 18, 2010)

i thought Ravenor was a gamma level psyker (although i could be wrong). Didn't he have a fight with an alpha power level psyker and win coz he was better trained or sumthing...sorry would check for myself but a friend has my ravenor omnibus .

And also if there is alpha plus, does that mean every level have pluses, like beta plus, and are there minuses? IMO i think there would be, it would make more sense than only being able to class psykers in the amount of greek letters...surely there is more power deferential between psykers than...(insert amount of greek letters here  ).


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I don't think you can include *any *Daemons or Daemon Princes in the list of Psychers. Daemons and those elevated to Daemon Prince status are no longer part of the material realm and become part of the Warp. They therefore do not channel the energies of the Warp like Psychers do, and are no longer Psychers. You can see this perfectly in the Daemons codex. They don't use Psychic Powers, because they are a pure psychic force made manifest, and use Gifts that are bestowed upon them by their God rather than an innate ability or skill/talent.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> I think it matters because it`s not really their power is it? I`m sure any psyker could do the same, even Tigurius if he had the mind to.
> 
> My scale was in regards to raw power and skill, which Magnus has daemons or not.


I think its very hard to differentiate then. Sorcerers are still utilising their own ability, and willpower - just like Imperial Psykers, but have bargained with Daemons for extra power. Where would we draw the line? Any Psyker who gains aid in some form or another is discredited?

Chaos Sorcerers have to bargain with Daemons in order to gain the power of part of the Daemon's own essence, but that in effect then becomes their power.



Serpion5 said:


> which Magnus has daemons or not


Although Magnus is now a Daemon himself.


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## shas'o Thraka (Jan 4, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Therefore its safe to assume that Magnus would have been able to maintain himself whilst on the Throne.


I'm not sure if I missed something here, but di Magnus ever sit on the Golden Throne, because he was the first choice, but obviously with the petty differences such as chaos etc. he didn't. I was just wondering....


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

No, he never sat on the throne. The wolves made sure of that. Lol


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Personally I dont hold that you can be ranked any higher than Alpha Plus. The difference in power beyond that level is ranked by sheer amount of willpower, which in turn enables you to manifest and control your abilities rather than them controlling you.
> 
> I consider the Emperor as an Alpha Plus Psyker, the difference between him and other Alpha Plus psykers being his unconquerable force of will, with which to direct his abilites.


I don't think you can be ranked higher than alpha plus because there is no rank higher than alpha plus.

To the best of my understanding, the ranking system is an Imperium device to gauge a psyker's strength. "Alpha" is the highest standard rating on that test, likely because nothing ever crops up that's as high or higher than an Alpha. "Alpha Plus" is a catch-all rank that basically translates to "we don't know where the hell to put this guy." There could be a huge power difference between two alpha plus psykers, but the Imperium ranking system isn't equipped to differentiate between those two. It's like two people getting a perfect score on an IQ test: one might be much smarter than the other, but the test isn't capable of measuring the difference.


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## Tuck3r (Apr 9, 2010)

lol yeah so it goes alpha plus then riddik psyker....
"Others, Sister they don't know what to do with just one of me"


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

shas'o Thraka said:


> I'm not sure if I missed something here, but di Magnus ever sit on the Golden Throne, because he was the first choice, but obviously with the petty differences such as chaos etc. he didn't. I was just wondering....


No he didn't. But the Emperor intended for him to.



K3k3000 said:


> I don't think you can be ranked higher than alpha plus because there is no rank higher than alpha plus.
> 
> To the best of my understanding, the ranking system is an Imperium device to gauge a psyker's strength. "Alpha" is the highest standard rating on that test, likely because nothing ever crops up that's as high or higher than an Alpha. "Alpha Plus" is a catch-all rank that basically translates to "we don't know where the hell to put this guy." There could be a huge power difference between two alpha plus psykers, but the Imperium ranking system isn't equipped to differentiate between those two. It's like two people getting a perfect score on an IQ test: one might be much smarter than the other, but the test isn't capable of measuring the difference.


Indeed. I realise now that my post you quoted wasn't well explained or elaborated upon. What I meant was that the Imperial Ranking system is just to put Psykers in context, it isn't perfect and cannot be used to readily explain each Psyker's power. 

Psykers who have manifested the ability to be classed as an Alpha Plus Psyker - In my opinion can however be readily ranked in the same category, the only way to differentiate between them is their level of manifest willpower.


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## BrainFreeze (Oct 9, 2008)

darklove said:


> I don't think you can include *any *Daemons or Daemon Princes in the list of Psychers. Daemons and those elevated to Daemon Prince status are no longer part of the material realm and become part of the Warp. They therefore do not channel the energies of the Warp like Psychers do, and are no longer Psychers. You can see this perfectly in the Daemons codex. They don't use Psychic Powers, because they are a pure psychic force made manifest, and use Gifts that are bestowed upon them by their God rather than an innate ability or skill/talent.


If we go with this though we cant exactly count the Emperor at this point though since he isnt exactly "part of the material realm" right now and he gains power from the killing or millions of psychers by the imperium.

We're better off without putting restrictions such as this on the listing.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

BrainFreeze said:


> If we go with this though we cant exactly count the Emperor at this point though since he isnt exactly "part of the material realm" right now and he gains power from the killing or millions of psychers by the imperium.
> 
> We're better off without putting restrictions such as this on the listing.


It may also mean that if the speculation is true about the Emperor bargaining power from the Chaos Gods, then he would automatically be discredited from any psychic rankings if we go down that route. Especially considering that by some people's definitions, Chaos Sorcerers (who employ Daemonic Pacts) should be discredited as well.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Ranking ( my 2 cents)
---------------------

1. Emperor (duh)
2. Magnus (pre and daemon)
3. Malcador
4. Eldrad ( If he can beat one of the oldest space marines alive and the strongest chaos warmaster, then he can totally obliterate Mephiston. He is also the most powerful Eldar farseer and even pitted his spirit against a demon in the blackstone fortress(which i doubt any imperium pskyer can do. He is also old!! and being old to psykers also means being stronger as a psyker.)
5. Ahriman
6. Greater daemon of Tzeentch and Tzeentch Princes
7. Tigerius

just my thoughts for here.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

XxDreMisterxX said:


> Ranking ( my 2 cents)
> ---------------------
> 
> 1. Emperor (duh)
> ...


2. as a Daemon = NOT A PSYCHER
6. as Daemons = NOT PSYCHERS

Only beings of the material realm, by definition, can be Psychers. That is like asking the question: Which mammal is the best swimmer? and then including FISH in the list! Some mammals can't swim, others do it really well, but although fish can also swim they are not mammals.
Psychers are material beings that can channel the Warp's energies, they are not creatures made of the warp because such creatures (including Daemons and Daemon Princes) are already Warp Stuff.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

It's pretty hard to find a mammal that can't swim. I would probably say Demoniacally enhanced psychers are more akin to Dolphins than fish. So Magnus is some sort of Dolphin, I think bottle nose. Sisters of Silence are all Giraffes. 

As for Eldard being able to simply smite Mephiston its not that easy. The Eldar powers are usually about mentally dominating and destroying some ones mind from the inside. They don't tend to summon Vortex's into the Warp like the Imperials are want to do. In this situation Mephiston is probably the best equipped Astarte to deal with getting his head exploded. 

Aramoro


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Well there are a lot of humans that can't swim, but also many that do, but that is beside the point. Magnus is a fish because he is not in the same scale, The Emperor would be a dolphin or a seal, somewhere at the bottom would be humans and badgers. If you include fish then even Magnus would come way down the list:

1. Tzeentch
2. Nurgle
3. Slaanesh
4. Khorne
5-5,000,000. All other major Warp entities
5,000,001. Significant Greater Daemons
Somewhere yet further down the list comes the Emperor and the other Psychers.

You can't even conceptualise it adequately, it is like trying to understand the distances between stars and galaxies: the human mind can't do it.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

All humans as a species can swim, as can almost all mammals, except maybe giraffes (possibly, no ones tried to drown a giraffe unbelievably) . Magnus was born of the material realm yet now can only live in the Warp, hence I would go for Dolphin. With the Chaos gods being fish as they are born of and can only exist in the warp. 

Aramoro


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

When Magnus was a physical being he might have been a dolphin, but once he became a Daemon he was a fish; so in the current context he would not feature in the list because the current status is Daemon/fish.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> It's pretty hard to find a mammal that can't swim. I would probably say Demoniacally enhanced psychers are more akin to Dolphins than fish. So Magnus is some sort of Dolphin, I think bottle nose. Sisters of Silence are all Giraffes.
> 
> As for Eldard being able to simply smite Mephiston its not that easy. The Eldar powers are usually about mentally dominating and destroying some ones mind from the inside. They don't tend to summon Vortex's into the Warp like the Imperials are want to do. In this situation Mephiston is probably the best equipped Astarte to deal with getting his head exploded.
> 
> Aramoro


Did u forget that Eldar have powers like Eldritch Storm and lightning powers? and other natural destructive powers!! Warlocks also have one, but i forgets what its called.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I think its very hard to differentiate then. Sorcerers are still utilising their own ability, and willpower - just like Imperial Psykers, but have bargained with Daemons for extra power. Where would we draw the line? Any Psyker who gains aid in some form or another is discredited?
> 
> Chaos Sorcerers have to bargain with Daemons in order to gain the power of part of the Daemon's own essence, but that in effect then becomes their power.
> 
> ...





Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> It may also mean that if the speculation is true about the Emperor bargaining power from the Chaos Gods, then he would automatically be discredited from any psychic rankings if we go down that route. Especially considering that by some people's definitions, Chaos Sorcerers (who employ Daemonic Pacts) should be discredited as well.


In retrospect, maybe we should have disincluded the Emperor and primarchs from the beginning, if you want a scale of raw unnassisted power.

But that does not give a realistic idea of what they can do if they turn chaos to their cause (Such as Empy and Ahriman). 

CotE, I see your point. My bad...unish:


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

XxDreMisterxX said:


> Did u forget that Eldar have powers like Eldritch Storm and lightning powers? and other natural destructive powers!! Warlocks also have one, but i forgets what its called.


I did not forget. Their destructive powers aren't that awesome compared to many. Imperial open up portals into the Warp for instance. The Eldar powers are generally more focused on constructs and aiding themselves and others, more support powers. 

Aramoro


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Wasnt there a high ranked Inquisitor in Ghostmaker and that Sergeant Soric? I think they were pretty high ranked both of them.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Soric was a beta level. Good for a human but nothing really special.


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