# Sanguinary Guard Yes Or No?



## jc40kba (Sep 27, 2010)

I have been struggling to justify using the sang guard ive tried them a gd few times and theyve always failed miserably. does anyone use them regularly, how do u set them up and most important DOES IT WORK. ive done one of the best paint jobs ive ever done on them and would love to get them on the table cheers guys.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

When I use them I always use them as supplemental support dropping in with Dante. This gives them versatility in my boOK. You have much better Elite choices than them, but Dante with his added bonus of -1 to a bunch of shit on the enemy HQ, makes them a troop choice. This is what makes them ok. DS with Dante and you do not scatter, and can get a couple of melta shots off against what is really annoying you. That is the only way I have found to use them for my play style.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

I am going to echo OIIIIIIIO sentiments. When I use them I typically drop them in with Dante and a Sang Priest. They are a scoring unit, that can take a bunch of melta, with a 2+ armor save and FNP. You still need to be cautious in how you move and where you deep strike so don't throw them out into the open and expect them not to draw fire. They are a really hard hitting unit that can really do alot of damage. You want to get real nasty attach a chaplain with a jump pack to the unit as well and you will crump a lot of shit. You want to make them flying Terminators substitute a Libby for the Chaplain and give him sword and shield. Sang gaurd are always going to be an expensive unit, but I have always found them worth the investment.


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## Astorath333 (Sep 27, 2010)

I totally agree with both of the before mentioned posts. However, I usually run them with 1 PF, a Priest, and the Sanguinor. +1 attack, FNP, FC, and a 2+ armour? Not to mention all have MC power weapons. An the sanguinor strikes at I & on the charge to take out any IC in the squad.


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## OrdoMalleus (Apr 24, 2009)

I have been keeping them in a stormraven to protect them with the load outs above, But when I have feilded them, I felt they need a sang priest for the FNP and if you hav a spare HQ a libby with Sheild, Blood lance and Jump pack.

Drop down, wreck something important , wither some fire and then munch something next turn. Of course consdiering they are meant to be the elite that the chpater marines aspire to, and that they will probably have served as a vanguard veteran to become a sang guard, I would hope that they will have heroic intervention in the next dex......


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## captain wood (Dec 4, 2010)

i think that useing them is a great tacticgiveing themdeath masks and chapter banner and an infrnus pistol then putting 1 squad with "Dante" and the other with "the sanguinor" they will then mega pwn  but thats just me


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## .Kevin. (Jan 10, 2011)

note if you just use one squad, give it a power fist and the chapter banner go in with dante and bam rape life itself.


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## jc40kba (Sep 27, 2010)

ive tried running them with dante and infernus pistols they come on pop sumfin then get shot to pieces for the price of using them for that purpose u could have a shitload of melta speeders dropping in for the same price possibly popping more stuff or even just a couple of speeders for a lot cheaper doing the same job. the only way ican justify using them is in apocalypse with their new data sheet.


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## Ashkore08 (Feb 12, 2011)

well i dont own a squad of these, yet their stats seem to indicate that when life gives them lemons, they beat the shit outta life and demand friggin beef instead.

the glaring oversight i see is lack of invulSaves. Sure, the standard issue IG flashlight wont make it past a +2 armour save, but that lascannon might. And adding a chappy/sang priest/IC should kick their badassery up to an 11, and keep it there.

Im gonna go and get myself a box next weekend,do some research, and see why the hell these dudes are failing so much.


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## jc40kba (Sep 27, 2010)

play test them before u buy to avoid disappointment lol ive been trying to use them for nearly a year and they fail time and time again the only way i can c them being effective is the way i mentioned above. too expensive for a five man squad u can get termies cheaper.


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## Alexious (Apr 13, 2009)

The Sang Guard are an interesting choice for any player. But your really looking at it for a typical marine army in relation to 1500-2000 points and their net worth.

Compare them to what else you can have, and their purpose.

1). Honor guard.
2). Terminators.
3). V. Vets.

Each of the above fufil or can fufil a similiar role in the BA structure but tend to have a better life expectancy or can be used in different roles. The Honor Guard get the SP which is a major boost. Terminators with Invulnerable are better save and V. Vets are a FA slot which is more often used for Baal Preds. ( i have yet to use V. Vets as i don't see them as viable for what you pay for them)

That said the SG are an interesting choice when used correctly. Too many people are thinking the SG are there to be a smasher unit. They are better used as the second wind..in my opinion. Supporting assaults they can wipe out numerous foes quickly and used in harmony they have greater survival when an opponent has to choose what to target. Dumping them into a "SURPIZE!!!!!! Fire the infernus pistols or plasma pistols" role to take out anything is a silly move. You do that with a Dready and if he lasts another turn you say awesome! I can't see any infantry unit apart from stormtroopers which are cheap being able to really justify doing that ever.

People are far too quick as well to keep the PF as this ultimate Armor stopper. The PF is an effective weapon agreed. But the glaive is a better option imo when your dealing with infantry which is what they should be facing. I think with so much mech out there, people are blind to the fact that the marines have awesome options to crack open Rhino's, Razorbacks, LR, Falcons, DE stuff and the many Guard options. The PF is not the greatest weapon when your capable of cracking open stuff with ML, melta and other things. Cracking stuff open then swarming over what pours out has worked well for me with BA rather than being there and swinging a fist at it. (perhaps thats playstyle too).


Anyway... thats my 2 cents.


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## Pearlay (Nov 26, 2009)

Dante makes them Troops but your crazy to buy 200+pts worth Elite Power to sit on Objective like troops, thats what tacticals are for Holding ground, Preferabley from armored Vehicle for Survivabilty.. stick a Priest for sure.. 2+ and FnP is Nut hard to kill, Plus Furious Charge & add a Chappy for Fearless & Re-Roll Misses = Assaulting Death ! (7 models with 3 attacks on charge = 21 hits with Re-Rolls) Nasty Not counting the Deaths from shooting before hand.


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## jc40kba (Sep 27, 2010)

ive thought about this before but wen u compare it to the 8 death company with power weapons and a reclusiarch without jump packs that i usaully use which is 37 attacks on the charge re rollin to hit and wound and theyre cheaper its hard to justify using them . saying that av got a 3k game this weekend maybe i should try them in that?


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## jayromandell (Jan 4, 2011)

I gotta agree with the underwhelming feel I get from these guys. I have Commander D and am thinking really hard about adding the Sanguinor to add to my second SG squad. I field them because they look totally boss, but end up being black holes as far as points are concerned. For their cost, they are horrible. I think upping them to 2 wounds would put them where they need to be or giving them a 4 up inv save.

Every time, and I mean every time these guys get obliterated hard. I was so dissapointed I was this close (holds fingers closely together) to building a space wolves army. Its so bad that my son calls them golden turkeys. I have tried all kinds of tactics. And for me, having to use up an elite just to make them effective is lame (SP).


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## Tienshinhan (Feb 5, 2012)

Id like to say that in a game I played two days ago, against Tyranids, a fully pfed squad of Sang Guard took out a carnifex (Losing 2), took no wounds from 48 devourer shots, and got into combat with a squad of Tyranid Warriors. Although, I made a mistake and forgot the Warriors had Lash Whips and Boneswords, so needless to say, they all died. If I had not made this mistake I could have easily put the hurt on another monstrous creature.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

I have played mine a lot. I run them with a PF, 2 Infernus Pistols, and the banner. I put them with Dante and a Priest with JP and Infernus pistol.

They have been hit and miss for me.

I have learned:

1. Only DS them on the outer edges of an enemy force. If you put them anywhere else they will get ganged up on. 

2. Try to DS them NEXT TO another friendly unit. This will help with any ganging the enemy may want to do.

3. They are *not* a DeathStar unit. With no Invulnerable saves they lack surviveability.

4. They *are* a support unit or a head hunter unit. I have used them effectvely to DS and kill an enemy character who got out too far from his army. I have also used them to pop annoying enemy HS choices like Predators, Hydras, Devastators, etc.

5. They are a fire magnet. Keep them in reserves or in a transport until they come in.


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## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

They're a nice Elite choice. You have to know their role though and not try to use them as flying Terminators, which is the trap people usually fall into when deciding they're bad or overpriced.

1. They're a nice unit to drop with Dante. A couple IPs plus Dante with the no-scatter DS should be enough to neutralize any armor threat, then move on to demolish somebody in CC. But just because you take Dante doesn't mean you have to take a Dantewing of all SG. One or two units is plenty, and it's nice to have them as scoring.

2. Use what they have: the 2+ save and power weapons. They're excellent for romping around in the enemy backfield to take out ML units, shooting HQs, or any other smaller unit with an armor save. They're great for quickly butchering babysitter units left on a home objective.

3. Don't try to use them as Terminators and expose them to lascannon or melta fire, and don't use them like an Assault Squad that can afford to take a few casualties to massed CC or horde shooting. 

So basically, you want to use them as Elite killers and headhunters. That's a perfectly good role since just about every army uses some kind of small infantry unit for shooting or a specialty role. You can even run them into a unit of (regular 5++) Terminators. On the charge they'll typically kill 3-4, crippling them before they strike back. But I'd keep it to 1-2 units, more than that and you don't have the bodies you need to deal with a full range of threats.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Stay around the sidelines, killing units that could easily be killed by something cheaper. Don't send them in against any real combat unit, because a lack of Invulnerables and a low body count will see you dead in seconds.

Midnight


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## MidnightKid333 (Feb 2, 2011)

I know a guy who runs a full sanguinary guard army, with all but one squad with infernus pistols, the odd unit out is using plasma. I think they're beter than some of the other options, there, especially terminators. The sanguinary guard having jetpacks just bypasses all of the other perks of using terminatorsor those other marines you mentioned. 

They get wrecked by any power weapons, though. Genestealers are their weakness.


Random fact: my doom of malantai killed two of these sanguinary guard squads in one go.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

MidnightKid333 said:


> I know a guy who runs a full sanguinary guard army, with all but one squad with infernus pistols, the odd unit out is using plasma. I think they're beter than some of the other options, there, especially terminators. The sanguinary guard having jetpacks just bypasses all of the other perks of using terminatorsor those other marines you mentioned.


No no no! You're more manouvrable than Terminators. Ok. You have the same armour save, but you lack even a 5+ Invuln. You have a Strength 5 Power Weapon, rather than a Power Fist or Lightning Claws. These weapons are, on the whole, comparable, although Power Fists or Thunder Hammers probably rank at the top. 12" S4 AP4 assault bolter? Terminators pack a Storm Bolter, and a heavy weapon in place of your one 6"/3" range Melta pistol, or have 3++ saves or another Lightning Claw, making them better than you at killing almost anything but Wraithlords. You can sweeping advance people, but Terminators can fire heavy weapons while moving, so that kinda balances out, but Terminator Armour can fit in a Land Raider. Overall, just having Jump Packs doesn't make Sanguinary Guard equal to Terminators. If it was, everyone would take Triarch Praetorians instead of Lychguard.



MidnightKid333 said:


> They get wrecked by any power weapons, though. Genestealers are their weakness.


Unless you're taking Hammernators, so do Terminators, so this isn't purely a weakness of Sanguinary Guard.



MidnightKid333 said:


> Random fact: my doom of malantai killed two of these sanguinary guard squads in one go.


That's what Doom's for - killing small infantry squads who didn't bring a transport 

Midnight


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## The 9th (Jul 16, 2011)

Sorta, but mostly no...they're good for bitz under 2000pts. -but in 2000pts+ games they're good with Dante attached and DOA to support where needed. It would be awesome to see an army with Dante HQ & Sanguinary Guard filling up all 6 troop slots.


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## TOM/emperor mankind (Apr 5, 2012)

1 the formation:grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

2 dante:grin:


3 sanguineury preist

4 cover

5 deep strike

thats some things you can do to make your :angel: get :victory: . and ther not good at normal line infantery get them in with slow elite like terms


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

TOM/emperor mankind said:


> 1 the formation:grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> 2 dante:grin:
> 
> ...


This has to be one of the most incoherent posts i have ever seen. The internet never meant for this to happen . . . :cray::cray:


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## Lord Azune (Nov 12, 2011)

Am I the only one who thinks they'd be pimp tank hunterkillers if you outfit them with infernus and power fists? It honestly seems like their only role within the army... jump around like crazy people hunting MCs and Tanks.

Then again.. a melta with a 6" range... 3" for melta to work... ouch.


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## CE5511 (Apr 16, 2011)

Lol! I say just stick with them killing things that have no obvious save. Say, tac squads or assault squads maybe. They remind me of the thunderwolf cav, you can spend the points to make them killy against lots but if they are kept basic the do wonders in and of themselves.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

The problem comes when they're 200pts without any kind of upgrade, and although they'll maim a Tactical Squad or something in combat, if the Sergeant has a Power Fist or something you'll lose one or two of the Guard in the combat.

They're also a bit too killy to go for Tacticals - you charge in with 3 attacks each, re-rolling five misses, and killing them on 3s. They punch a Guard to death, and then use Combat Tactics to get the hell out of there. Now you're stuck in front of an army of angry Space Marines, and that's seen as a problem where I come from.

Midnight


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

jc40kba said:


> I have been struggling to justify using the sang guard ive tried them a gd few times and theyve always failed miserably. does anyone use them regularly, how do u set them up and most important DOES IT WORK. ive done one of the best paint jobs ive ever done on them and would love to get them on the table cheers guys.


I have never used them. But I have faced them many times and OH GOD THE PAIN!!! :shout: 

My opponent fields two squads of five, both joined by a sanguinary priest and one led by Dante. Both will Deep Strike in asap and hurt hard with their damn melta pistol things. 

My only hope is to get furious charge with some very angry tyranids or blast them apart with very lucky necrons. Because if they survive my following turn (which they too often do) I am in for a world of hurt. 


They are well justified. I assure you. :washim:


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

TOM/emperor mankind said:


> 1 the formation:grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> 2 dante:grin:
> 
> ...


Smileys are NOT a substitute for words. Have you read the rules? We have posting standards. You are failing to meet them.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Times like this I miss the negrep.

Midnight


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## The Golden Sons (Apr 15, 2012)

The problem with putting Dante into the unit is that you are then reaching a points investment which is unsustainable in most games.

A more economical investment would be adding the sanguinary priest, but the problem with that is that the major benefit he adds (Feel no pain) counteracts massed fire, which in all honesty isn't the squads major problem. The squads big problem is that they have no invulnerable saves, leaving plasma and las cannons to butcher them generally.

Personally, I just wouldn't field them. Everything that they do well there is another unit to take its place. If you do field them, I would put in the priest w/ a shield to get an invuln save you could allocate plasma wounds to and try to distract enemies with it as I march it upfield.

Of course, all of this is IMHO, with the added note that I do not play Blood Angels, only against them.


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## Dantes-scribe (Aug 11, 2012)

Ok for starters hi  im new to here but im an avid BA sag gaurd army player.

First mistake that i see is sag are not termies full stop so stop comparing.
They both forfill a close combat roll yes but SG units are rapid response heavy hitters who sacrifice an inv save for speed.... Mean while termis are a slow moving ammunition magnet who take 3 times as long to do the same job by the time they reach the first enemy unit UNLESS u put them in that nice big 250pt land raider and making the unit a hell of alot more expensive for a lil extra speed.

Second mistake i see is DS them. Dont DS them coz ur opponent is going to set up ready for you to deep strike often having a sacrificial unit for you to deep strike behind... Dont do it! Run them up using cover and hide them behind it as you make ur way up to STRIKING DISTANCE.

3rd mistake...... Really tank hunting..... *palm to face* 
Im sorry but if ur using them to tank hunt, plz tell ur local GWS staff member to slap some sence into u lol

Ok, so i kno your thinking who the hell is this guy right? Well since BA were re-released iv been playing a 1000-2000 pt sag gaurd army with an approx win ratio of arround 85-90% tho i tend to strughle against an elite GK army or any other elite army.

My 1000 pt list consists of;

1 unit of sag gaurd with banner and 1 infernus pistol
1 unit of sag gaurd with 1 infernus pistol
Dante
Saginor
2x sag priest with JP

So how do i use a total of 14 mdls to win?
Simple!

Being such a small army, its VERY easy to hide them as they move up behind cover so that they are out of sight for the most part.... Yes from time to time u will get shot at but stratigic placement will still provide u cover or limit the amount of fire aimed at them.

Dante tags along with the banner unit but i try to keep them all close to bennifit from the extra attacks granted by the banner and the saguinor in CC and FC granted by the preists. The preists also provid FnP for any small arms fire u may recieve if ur units can be shot at..... Dnt under estimate FnP on an expensive unit!

Now most players will try to draw u out with a sacrificial unit so they can shoot u next turn.... Again, DONT do it! 

Go around or simply over them to the juicy units behind! Simply send the sagiunor to deal with the unit in the open while u munch down with ur other 2 units on the "back up" lol. The sag is more than capable beating down on most units with his stats etc

Basicly u want to aim to kill any TROOPS choices they have so that they can score objectives but try to go for the total distruction of them for the win..... 8 out of 10 wins i have is because iv destroyed their entire army and its not hard! Unless ur facing GK grrrr

Now ill let u work out y i take both the saguinor and dente and how many attacks the sag gaurd units get on the charge when used with the saguinor and the banner....


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## Dantes-scribe (Aug 11, 2012)

I forgot to mention that u DONT want to kill a whole unit in one turn, u want to leave enough enemy mdls left so that u can finnish them off in the opposing players combat phase so long as their unit has ran from ur initial onslaught....

This enables your unit to not get shot at in their turn coz ur still in CC.... If you destroy them in their turn you now have ur turn to assault ur next target without being cannon fodder first! 

Its all about playing for the next turn and playing the smart move and not being gun hoe! Thats why so many ppl are failing with their SG units


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Just some comments:
1. Welcome to Heresy, enjoy your stay.
2. Please check dates on threads before posting - this one applies to 5th ed.
3. While you may be an excellent player, and be facing top class opponents, your gaming experience from your local meta isn't exactly a justification. Where I am, that list would get mullered by armies that either can manouvre equally as well/have fliers, or have sufficient number of models not to care about 14 Sangs. Hence why people recommend that Sang Guard are used in conjunction with RAS squads for better balance. Finally, while they may be an expensive way of doing it, Sangs are perfectly capable tank hunters, and if you manage to waste a Land Raider or a couple of Leman Russ then you're doing fine.


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## Dantes-scribe (Aug 11, 2012)

Yeh sorry i noticed the date on the thread after i posted lol.

As for flyers, yeh they are a problem but you dnt see to many in a 1000 pt game like my list and tactics were directed towards 
Any thing over 1000pts i include a storm raven or two 

Being overwhelmed by numbers isnt such an issue.... Iv faced many horde armys and i find that not all the enemy can reach for a hit due to the 2" from base to base rule in combat and FNP def helps there....
I faced against every codex army out there and like any of them their is no full proof combination to ensure a win. 

Like i said if you know ur going to struggle, the best thing to do is kill the troop choices in ur opponents army so they cant score and go for the DRAW tho new rules with bonus objectives can come into effect.

As for tank hunting yes.... They can but dont dedicate them to tank hunting... Its just stupid when there are better units is what i mean... I do however equip a IP or 2 in each unit incase the need arises to pop a tank or 2

Honestly, using such an elite force is a dif way of gaming and forces u to play a dif style to ur standard army of a bit of this and a bit of that but id reccomend everyone to giv it a try


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