# Why Not use Abaddon?



## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Basically, I know the hate Abby gets from differant directions, regarding points cost, lack of manouverabilty etc. etc. 

But I ran him in a few games today, and he proved to be an unstoppable monster, he butchered 3 wolf Lord on Thunder Wolves, 3 Lone Wolves, and 2 Units of gray hunters. In one game. Obviously this is almost certainly the exception to the rule that he isn't useful. But at the size game I played 1500pts.

Even on a 6x4 board he was able to make combat, and slaughter. In higher points I would obviously give him and his terminator buddies that I ran him with a Landraider so he can get where he want's that much faster.

I can see myself using him quite often in future. 

So, tell me, why wouldn't you/don't you?


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

I am going to run my counts as Abbadon soon, alongside 5 MOS Terminators with Lightning claws, possibly making them Champions. Mainly because they sound like they can butcher the crap out of anything


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> So, tell me, why wouldn't you/don't you?


because the model is poo...thats the only reason I need


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## BrainFreeze (Oct 9, 2008)

I've run Abaddon and Typhus in a landraider with 3 lightning claw terms..it was more then alittle scary for people when they unloaded and assualted into their command squads. Huge point sink though if they get sniped off.


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## Tossidin (Dec 10, 2008)

Cause an MSU list will either sacrifice cheap units to him, or just stop the land raider and shoot the crap out of him. What is he gonna do, kill a 5 man tactical squad and then eat "x" lascannons and plasaguns? 

Also, as Stella mentioned, he looks god damn ugly! Who wouldn't want to shoot his face?


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

'Cause he failed 13 black crusades.


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## LKHERO (Nov 24, 2010)

Everyone in my area takes Abaddon as his go-to guy as a Chaos Lord. He's just that good.. there's no reason you should never take him unless you want to play dual lash. The guy's stats are amazing and he's worth the cost compared to all the other SCs of that point cost.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

hes fine, as long as you dont roll a one on his demon weapon extra attacks. that rule is stupid IMHO.

i use him in large games / apocalypse. otherwise i cant justify the points to for him & the things around him.

i use a LR, abby, and 8 bezerkers with a PF champ. so for a cool 703 points i can use abby.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Crappy model, but I have used him in a appoc game or two. Bastard tore through 2 trygons in one game.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> because the model is poo...thats the only reason I need


Yeah, come this weekend im going to kitbash Abaddon with a Termie lord, to hopefully make something not ugly. I hate his model, too small, and gross


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> Yeah, come this weekend im going to kitbash Abaddon with a Termie lord, to hopefully make something not ugly. I hate his model, too small, and gross


as would I...however I'd still want the sword and claw, so kitbashing one requires the original and the plastic lord, which would kill my credit card and make me say fuck it buy Zhufor from FW and do counts as.


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## bunji213 (Dec 11, 2009)

i made mine out of the termi lord, quick dual bolt pistol weld to the back of the lightning claw and an ogre blade caked in greenstuff pinned in to make the sword of self slaughter, i run him with 4 termis of slaanesh with lightning claws, in a land raider, in the occasional 3k game i'll run kharne and 9 berzerkers in the second land raider. anyway point is, easy to make abaddon using termi lord and your character stands as tall as his bodyguard. bonus!


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

Because Abaddon lost the mastery over his daemon weapon - The most powerful chaos lord in the entire freaking universe and he can't control his own daemon weapon. This unfortunately makes him go dud far too many times than what is expected of a 'cc monster'

He costs a lot. Something you can not afford to sink points into in a CSM army. In an 'ard boys situation? Ye, I can see him being used. In anything lower? Not so much. If you do, he's way to easy to deal with - as explained by Tossidin earlier. 
Considering adding a retinue and transport, way too many points to sink into a single easy-to deal with hammer that is prone to hurting itself and not doing anything.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

the last 6/6 games I used him, he has yet to fail me. You can't afford to avoid him, he single handedly makes me around 3/6 Kps every game.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> 'Cause he failed 13 black crusades.


This.

And the fact that as soon as you dont play another "assaulty" army you will need to chase the opponent. Good luck doing that in TDA.
The whole game will boil down to if the opponent kills the Land Raider Abby rides in before he hits the line, or if he gets there intact. Basically a simple game of a few dice rolls and not much thinking...


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

MaidenManiac said:


> Basically a simple game of a few dice rolls and not much thinking...


Is this a thinly veiled insult? I hope so, because those are the best 

and, to your quoted bit, thats my kind of game :grin:


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Abbaddon is a lot like a c'tan slow expensive, and best used right smack in the middle of the enemy forces so they can't avoid him.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I tend to employ a 10 man pathfinder squad. They are horrible to expensive units like abby and his bodyguard. If his LR is popped in first turn then he can be sniped before he even reaches my lines. In short he is too slow and requires a lot of investment before he becomes wrthwhile.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> Is this a thinly veiled insult? I hope so, because those are the best
> 
> and, to your quoted bit, thats my kind of game :grin:


Im leaving the insult detail to the viewers minds:wink:


I do see the merit of playing "all in" builds now and then. They just grow more and more booring every time though. The standard Abby+termies/zerks+LR is such a 1 trick pony that it makes Zerg 6pooling in SC2 seem like a broad strategy:laugh:


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

He just needs to run into something bigger, nastier, cleverer and more successful than him (Of which there is but one that I can think of: the Swarmlord) and he gets churned up. I've never found him effective as he spends all game getting killed by Boyz or Gaunts who intercept him. Although in a LR against Orks he's probably pretty nasty, because Orks anti-AV14 is practically non-existant. 

Midnight


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## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

No one has ever said he is bad at what he does. The problem is that other things are just as good at what he does in most cases, and don't cost more than a possessed Land Raider.

Also, unless you're doing 2000+ points, his massive investment locks your list into one play style. A competent opponent will recognize this from the second he looks at your list and move to counter it.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

I don't play Black Legion, so it's pretty much a moot point.
If I did, in larger games I'd probably use Abbadon.


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

The problem with Abby isn't necessary Abby. The problem is that Chaos Termies kind of suck, as do Chaos land raiders, and he needs to be taken with both. So by extention, in my mind, he isn't great.


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## Supersonic Banana (Jul 23, 2010)

You can either have a game where abbadon does nothing, or a game where afterwards you suddenly find yourself with no gaming buddies.

Their weekends do tend to get very "busy" after 1 model steamrollers their entire army.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

If your opponents couldn't avoid him on a 4x6 board then I question the skill of your opponents.


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## gally912 (Jan 31, 2009)

Stephen_Newman said:


> I tend to employ a 10 man pathfinder squad. They are horrible to expensive units like abby and his bodyguard. If his LR is popped in first turn then he can be sniped before he even reaches my lines. In short he is too slow and requires a lot of investment before he becomes wrthwhile.


Pathfinders with drones? :shok:


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

What most people have already said: very expensive, too slow, and relatively vulnerable. In larger games around 2500 or more points I'm more likely to take him. Plus he's been using the same dinky model since... second edition.

This brings to mind the first time I witnessed Abaddon. I was but a wee lad who had picked up an old copy of White Dwarf at a garage sale (#200, actually, from the way early nineties). It was this purchase that propelled my entrance into playing 40k, but I digress. The issue covered the (then-recent) release of the original, 2nd edition Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Int eh customary battle report, a Chaos force headed by Abaddon faced down some Orks. This, of course, was back in more lighthearted, haphazard days, and the Chaos player (I believe it was Andy Hoare, facing Jervis) was determined to have Abaddon and his retinue take out the Warboss himself. He deepstruck into battle (back when it was viable to actually do so) and ended up within assault range of the warboss... only problem was that Abaddon had scattered in such a way that he landed on the _other side_ of the river that the Warboss was near. This has always stuck with me as a sign of how very powerful, and at the same time rather inept, the Despoiler can be.

Also, I seem to recall that in previous versions of the Codex, Abaddon, never had to test for mastery with his demon weapon. He's Abaddon! He don't take guff from no demon!

And for those bringing up his 13 failed Black Crusades, he didn't lead ALL of them...

Just, like, 7...

Or 9...


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## 5tonsledge (May 31, 2010)

i like abby but only in high points with a retinue of terminators in a land raider. But i would much rather really good chosen squads and 6 troop choices with my Daemon princes.


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## ApostleofBlood (Feb 26, 2010)

Abaddon's actually probably one of my first choices in HQ when I play. He's a real nice tank with the eternal warrior, 4 wounds and everything. He destroys practically everything put in front of him(The only thing that really stands up to him in my game group is a Swarm Lord). Give him four termintators to have as back up and deepstrike near a mark and you're usually golden.


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## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

daxxglax said:


> 13 failed Black Crusades


Hate to nitpick here, but in most cases the Black Crusades actually completed their objectives, which is pretty damn impressive when you consider how prone the god-aligned Chaos forces are to killing their allies over petty rivalries, and the fact that the only stable warp route out of the Eye is 99% Gun. People just tend to misinterpret "Black Crusade" as "Destroy the Imperium once and for all".


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## Supersonic Banana (Jul 23, 2010)

Deathscythe4722 said:


> Hate to nitpick here, but in most cases the Black Crusades actually completed their objectives, which is pretty damn impressive when you consider how prone the god-aligned Chaos forces are to killing their allies over petty rivalries, and the fact that the only stable warp route out of the Eye is 99% Gun. People just tend to misinterpret "Black Crusade" as "Destroy the Imperium once and for all".


I agree. His last crusade was just to get hold of some advanced-alien-death-star-thingys (the name eludes me) that can destroy planets instantly (e.g. faster than his Planet Killer flagship) and he actually got 2 of them (i think).
yes...a fail


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Orochi said:


> If your opponents couldn't avoid him on a 4x6 board then I question the skill of your opponents.


This is the sole answer to all questions regadring Abbys use or no use.
As soon as folks learn that running away from the "Icon of melee devastation itself" is the way to go you should see why you dont play him. Up till then happy killing...


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## uber (Feb 28, 2011)

given that the same practice of "make him chase you" also applies to kharn, it would seem much more economical to put kharn w/ crew in a LR and watch your opponent worry about him. this gives you more points for other juicy targets, like oblits or defilers.

then again, using abby with a lash prince could work out pretty well. i plan on trying it eventually.


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## Dakingofchaos (Sep 29, 2009)

this might sound a stupid questino but i havnt seen deep striking him mentioned before, why is this? does he epicly fail at deepstriking with bodyguards or have i stumbled upon a new concept? :laugh:


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Dakingofchaos said:


> this might sound a stupid questino but i havnt seen deep striking him mentioned before, why is this? does he epicly fail at deepstriking with bodyguards or have i stumbled upon a new concept? :laugh:


Well the possibility of a mishap sucks, and he gives the enemy a free turn of shooting at him and/or running away while he stands there saying 'Grrr' and looking intimidating. Added to the fact that he might not actually turn up until turn four, it's not very clever to Deep Strike with such an expensive unit.

Midnight


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## uber (Feb 28, 2011)

midnight pretty much summed it up why we don't DS with him.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> Added to the fact that he might not actually turn up until turn four, it's not very clever to Deep Strike with such an expensive unit....


Its surprising how often one rolls "1" on the reserve rolls turn 4 for important units. Id call Abby and posse "important units".
You dont DS him, or any other 500+ pts unit, because you miss effective use of his abilities that way. The only time that would be viable is with a pod so you know that your deathstar unit _WILL_ show up turn 1 without misshaps.


Regarding a Lash Prince to "feed" Abby units thats more or less mandatory to get some decent mileage out of him, thus adding another 155 points to the cost of him. Prepare to see that DP shot to hell, literally, the second his T5 ass shows in any ones LoS.


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## Caliban (Nov 27, 2010)

Take him with a small band of tzeentch termies and place him as far forward as you can. You're opponent then tries to stay the hell away from him, but can only get away as quickly as you chase. so keep the rest of the army fast or very shoot to make the most of the fleeing enemy


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