# Regarding O(&G) armies



## octopec (Dec 8, 2009)

Hello everyone,

I'm new to this section of the forum, so I'd like to say hi and wish everyone an early merry christmas 

I'm looking at starting WHFB, and the O&G are just too awesome to take my eyes off of. I'm thinking however that I like orcs very much more than goblins, so my first question would be: is it possible to make a decent O&G list that revolves around minimal use of goblins? I love the larger models like black orcs, and I would also be fine with stuff like goblin chariots and cavalry (again, larger models). Would it work out play-wise though, I'm not looking for a super duper army but it would be nice to have one that doesn't get totally creamed by everyone and their plumber.

My second question regards the new O&G army book that is supposedly (?) coming soon, like some time in 2010. Do you think this is a correct time estimate, and what kind of changes do you expect in that army book? More units, or just buffing the current ones?

Thanks in advance!


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

you certainly can avoid taking large goblin units, though cutting them completely out does take out some useful options. Light cavalry, war machines and cheap mages are what you really need goblins for. beyond that, you can avoid them.

If a new book is coming, it's most likely going to be early 2011, more than 2010, to fit in with the apparent arrival of the 8th edition of the rules. This is all highly hypothetical at this point though...


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

I agree with Maddermax. Goblins are always useful scroll caddies, and allow more diversity in an army, spear chukka`s, doomdivers, squigs, fanatics...

Though, Im pretty sure the next book will be late next year.... I bet my.... soul.... on it...


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## octopec (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks for the replies which were spot on - I really don't mind using gobbo special / rare / cavalry units, I think they look pretty cool. What I don't want are the standard tiny gobbo blocks, I just like the look of orcs much better. Me looking at black orcs is like Homer looking at chocolate...Mmm...Chocolate...Grrghhghgrhgh..


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

octopec said:


> Thanks for the replies which were spot on - I really don't mind using gobbo special / rare / cavalry units, I think they look pretty cool. What I don't want are the standard tiny gobbo blocks, I just like the look of orcs much better. Me looking at black orcs is like Homer looking at chocolate...Mmm...Chocolate...Grrghhghgrhgh..


They make for expensive snacks, just warning you


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Blocks of gobbos are almost useless in game: shortbows will protect a flank if the enemy sends anything really weak at it but not much else and units of combat gobbos will almost always just get crushed by whatever attacks them... having said that having a couple of cheap ranked up units to throw onto a flank is always useful: 3 ranks, outnumber, banner and musician gives you a +6 to SCR (almost- musician only occasionally is helpful) but is does mean that anything like a very strong monster hitting them with few, powerful attacks is not going to do too well: a bloodthirster could do 5W to your gobbos and still lose (while it would still do those same wounds to black orcs... for a bloodthirster they are equally easy to kill).


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Really? ive heard of many tales in which massed goblin short bow fire has felled even Giants...


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Love how you say 'even giants' ... giants are possible the easiest things in the game to kill: large target, T5 6W and no save whatsoever- ok better if you are using poisoned attacks but even basic shortbows will get +1 to hit and then take wounds on a 6
- at close range an average of 54 shots with shortbows will kill a giant... get a little lucky and roll a few extra 6s to wound and the giant will be dead long before that.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I'm not sure I'd bother bringing regular Orc Boyz. Goblin units aren't good, either, to be fair, but they provide the static combat score you're after for a lot fewer points. They can (usually) hold an opponent in place for a turn for your Black Orcs to charge. 

Alternatively, if you don't mind the infuriating fact that Games Workshop doesn't produce plastic models for them, you could bring large units of Savage Orcs, which are... savage. Frenzy is, in my experience, the most underestimated ability in the game because everyone assumes you'll just find a way to draw them off. The reality ends up being pretty different, as you have to go out of your way to do that, and have to have the right unit to do it with. Most armies don't have the wiggle room to mess with drawing out a Frenzied unit like that, and even if they do, they have to do it in such a way that the Frenzied unit can't see any other target to potentially charge (even if it's a failed charge.) Long story short, Savage Orcs are excellent, and far better than regular Orc Boyz. 

Ultimately, you'll need some goblins. It's a sad fact of life when you're a greenskin, it seems. One of the things that makes it possible for Orc units to win fights is decent shooting, and that's provided almost entirely by goblin units such as Spear Chukkas, fanatics (which isn't really shooting, but it's got a similar role and is resolved in the same way), and outrageously maneuverable fast cavalry such as Spider and Wolf Riders.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

The Son of Horus said:


> Alternatively, if you don't mind the infuriating fact that Games Workshop doesn't produce plastic models for them, you could bring large units of Savage Orcs, which are... savage. Frenzy is, in my experience, the most underestimated ability in the game because everyone assumes you'll just find a way to draw them off. The reality ends up being pretty different, as you have to go out of your way to do that, and have to have the right unit to do it with. Most armies don't have the wiggle room to mess with drawing out a Frenzied unit like that, and even if they do, they have to do it in such a way that the Frenzied unit can't see any other target to potentially charge (even if it's a failed charge.) Long story short, Savage Orcs are excellent, and far better than regular Orc Boyz.


You cant declare a charge thats obviously out of range- its defined as cheating by the WFB FAQ (one of them)... so if a unit is more then an inch or two beond charge range then the opposition can just call the game if they want.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

My mate often used a force made from just orcs and with a bit of luck when rolling for spells has managed a first turn waagh against me a few times and even when he doesn't with solid blocks of boys advancing in line (bar animosity) and a strong unit on the flank or even a couple of chariots to counter anything trying to sneak around the side the orcs usually make for an even battle whatever I take.
Savage orcs are good but I find its an all or nothing situation. A whole army of frenzied orcs is a nightmare 1 unit not so much.


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## matty570 (Jun 14, 2007)

Its expensive but I would definitely take a unit of big uns as well as the extra WS, S really help even though they are relatively expensive. But I agree I would definitely take a couple of spear chukkas just to keep those steam tank, large monster armies honest.

I do think that you can make a playable army just using Orc's but the likelihood is you'll have fewer units and could find the frustration of animosity really hitting home!!

Have you looked at pump wagons? Surprisingly useful, I completely underestimated them when playing against a friend who took four!!


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