# Crossbreeding in the 41st M



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

So I know that the imperium hates everyone else besides themselves and sometimes they just everyone including themselves but would it be plausible see the races crossbreed like a half human half eldar or say male slaanesh daemon rapes a human or other alien female and she gives birth to a possible half daemon critter. I know its possible for one alien race to raise another alien as there own such as the human harlequin in the inqusition war.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

No.


To be more specific- humans are more closely related to dogs than we are Eldar, Orks etc and I'm not seeing any hideous dog-man hybrids wandering about.


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## Tel Asra Nejoar (Mar 16, 2010)

Unless you count the old 40K beastmen... FOR THE EMPRWWAAAAAOOORRRR!!!!!


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

considering we don't know how many chromosomes they have its possible except for ork since theyre fungi, but its sci-fi so anythings possible but itd probably be killed or considered lesser because of all the races self important views.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Though of course they've been retconned as hideous mutants who happen to resemble animal hybrids rather than the twisted result of some farm yard loving.


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Not since RT.
The Ultramarines used to have a member who was half-eldar. 

Since then, one of the BL publications came out (the one with the dissected xenos in it) it was revealed that Eldar DNA is a triple strand and not remotely (to the admech) compatible with humans and it has been retconned out (Humans can't engineer a eldar-human hybrid - which is not to say that the eldar with their psychic control over their own bodies couldn't manipulate things for it to happen somehow.). 

Of course, Eldar wouldn't mate with a human (it would be like a farmer mating with their cattle, or like mating with a lower-order primate). Orks are mushroom people (but apart from that, are seen to be fun guys), but spore, rather than breed. Tyranids do create hybrids at the genetic level and assimilate traits into their greater whole (like an organic 'borg race).


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

I disagree.

Ronnie James Dio is a half human half eldar, and look what he turned out to be... a god. He only died because he was eaten by a dragon.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

The Radicals Handbook supplement for Dark Heresy includes Xenos hybridisation as both a crime and a rule system so it must be: (a) possible with many non-human species, and (b) common enough at one point that someone noticed.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

It's all make-believe so anything's possible. GW has already violated so many biological concepts that Darwin himself is rolling over in his grave, so I don't see the problem with breaking a couple more. Frankly, part of the reason the fluff is so interesting is because of how ridiculous it is, so bring on the human-eldar hybrids!


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## Smokes (Nov 27, 2009)

So....I won't have to worry about a couple thousand Eldar-Human hybrids due to my efforts on various craftworlds? Nice but I'm going to need to get my stuff moved somehow.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

chromedog said:


> (it would be like a farmer mating with their cattle, or like mating with a lower-order primate).


For the eldar, it would be like furry porn then.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Humanity would never allow such a blasphemous abomination to exist. Heresy! Anyway, if they have a different DNA formation then hell no.


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## Smokes (Nov 27, 2009)

I am an Inquisitor of the Holy Orders and I did not have sex with those Eldar.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Yes lord inquisitor Clinton. Lol


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

I'm fairly certain the eldar are supposed to have evolved from birds, while orks are fungi and probably lack genitalia. Both would seem unlikely pairings with a human.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The Kroot evolved from avian creatures, not the Eldar.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Well they were both created by the old ones so they didn't really "evolve" in the typical sense.


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## Tensiu (Aug 15, 2009)

Bird-Eldars? Meh.
Kroot's evolusion is based on assimilating DNA of other races, and I've heard about Orks infected by Genestealers, but humans are humans, Eldars are Eldars, and only some kind of advanced bio-engineering might mix 'em, I guess.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Screw half-eldar. Bring me some half-Tau laydeez. :wink:


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> Screw half-eldar. Bring me some half-Tau laydeez. :wink:


That, quite possibly, would be the ugliest sob ever made.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Are you sure?


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## Ravingbantha (Jan 9, 2009)

I would say that at some point both the Eldar and the Empire have both attempted it. Sure it may be illegal for either race, but since when has that ever been a deterant. For the Eldar I could see them wanting to find a way to increase their reproduction rate. After all that's one thing we humans have down pat.


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

um wha? don't ya think the t'au would lose thier hooves Iron? at least a little?


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Maybe, but I'm not a foot guy anyway.


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

me either, just pointing something out.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> Are you sure?


I really really really doubt it would turn out that well.......:no:


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

ok so what about the sencond question what if say a male daemon was to rape a human or other race female and manages to impregnate her technically the child born whould be half daemon


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Ravingbantha said:


> I would say that at some point both the Eldar and the Empire have both attempted it. Sure it may be illegal for either race, but since when has that ever been a deterant. For the Eldar I could see them wanting to find a way to increase their reproduction rate. After all that's one thing we humans have down pat.


But that would be like us breeding with spider monkeys to increase our numbers- the Eldar look down on humanity to such a degree we're essentially a bipedal form of bacteria to them.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

TheSpore said:


> ok so what about the sencond question what if say a male daemon was to rape a human or other race female and manages to impregnate her technically the child born whould be half daemon


Daemons don't reproduce sexually, so no that would never happen.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

gen.ahab said:


> I really really really doubt it would turn out that well.......:no:


But _if it did_...


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

nothing is impossible only improbable


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## Tensiu (Aug 15, 2009)

In material world daemons are just an images, because in Warp they have no form. They are born of energy, and have no DNA. A daemon might eventually posses a child, but can't be a parent.


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

Just to point out an instance of such things in current print- The Chapter's Due (McNeill) has a female npc antagonist that is hinted (heavily) at being a human-eldar hybrid.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Euphrati said:


> Just to point out an instance of such things in current print- The Chapter's Due (McNeill) has a female npc antagonist that is hinted (heavily) at being a human-eldar hybrid.


I don`t think so. She`s just very well trained with a blade. Death cultists are much the same, sometimes better as I`ve read it.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

We still have not adressed Tau hybrids.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Theres nothing to address, different species cannot interbreed, cats cannot breed with dogs. But if you feel like it go wild and have whatever you fancy. Just remember Rule 34 and the consequences of your thoughts. 

Aramoro


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Aramoro's absolutely right. The main condition that differentiates separate species is the fact that they cannot reproduce with each other.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I'll be covering this issue soon, however...


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> I don`t think so. She`s just very well trained with a blade. Death cultists are much the same, sometimes better as I`ve read it.


I wasn't refering to the Blade dancers, but to the Corsair Queen.

'Kaarja Salombar sketched him a roguish salute, her wild blue hair swirling around her thin features. Honsou supposed that she was beautiful, with pale skin and warm, almond-shaped eyes of striking violet. There were some who said there was eldar blood in her veins, and Honsou would be hard pressed to disagree. Her tall, slender frame and inhuman grace certainly suggested an affinity with that ancient race...'
-page 70 The Chapter's Due

'It was a woman, barely clad in strips of lacquered leather and vivid fabrics that caught the light and made her shimmer with colour. With more than a hint of inhuman eldar to her lithe frame, and a wild mane of azure hair flowing around her shoulders, there could be no mistaking the identity of the woman. "Kaarja Salombar," hissed Scipio...'
-page 251 The Chapter's Due


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Sarah Jessica Parker looks like a Horse, that doesn't mean she is in fact half horse. 

Aramoro


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

I never said that this character was stated 100% to be an eldar-human hybrid, I was only stating that Graham McNeill makes a point to reference the possibility that she is multiple times throughout the text.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Daemons don't reproduce sexually, so no that would never happen.


He is right (to the extant a question about a fictional universe can have a right answer).

Taking as a comparison actual texts on Demonology, demons impregnating women were believed to obtain the sperm by raping men first.

So a Daemon might warp taint sperm first; however, it would not actually be transmission of DNA.


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## Tel Asra Nejoar (Mar 16, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> Sarah Jessica Parker looks like a Horse, that doesn't mean she is in fact half horse.
> 
> Aramoro


im working on a way to prove its true! the theory is that there is in fact a sub-species of humans hiding in popular media. my studies have led to the discovery of several others of this rare breed, including sarah michelle-gellar, Helena bonham-carter, and rachel weisz. Just you wait till im on the cover of national geographic!


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## Tensiu (Aug 15, 2009)

Tel Asra Nejoar said:


> im working on a way to prove its true! the theory is that there is in fact a sub-species of humans hiding in popular media. my studies have led to the discovery of several others of this rare breed, including sarah michelle-gellar, Helena bonham-carter, and rachel weisz. Just you wait till im on the cover of national geographic!


You have discovered beastmen! It means Chaos is real, as Chaos borns 'em, and it means that in about 28 thousand years Emperor will becput in Astronomican! Oh God, you have made the greatest discovery of all time!

We have to invent Gellar field as fast as possible.


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## Tel Asra Nejoar (Mar 16, 2010)

what sort of gellar field? one to aid safe interstellar travel, or to cage the beast that is SM-G?


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## Tensiu (Aug 15, 2009)

The one that seems to be generated by pylons on Cadia to establish route to the Eye of Terror, and protect matter from Warp energy. If Chaos is real, then we'll need that technology.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Lets just put this in simple terms:

Eldar + human = impossible and blasphemous

Elf + human = a-ok


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Tensiu said:


> The one that seems to be generated by pylons on Cadia to establish route to the Eye of Terror, and protect matter from Warp energy. If Chaos is real, then we'll need that technology.


The pylons on Cadia don't act like a Gellar Field- Gellar Fields trap a bubble of reality, whereas the pylons supress the warp in their vicinity.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> The pylons on Cadia don't act like a Gellar Field- Gellar Fields trap a bubble of reality, whereas the pylons supress the warp in their vicinity.


Are they of necron design or something?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

It's believed so, it's not exactly been said that they are for definite but all descriptions of them are Necron in nature.


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## Tensiu (Aug 15, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> The pylons on Cadia don't act like a Gellar Field- Gellar Fields trap a bubble of reality, whereas the pylons supress the warp in their vicinity.


Anyway, it was noted somewhere that they were vibrating, or sumthin' like this, before Abaddon's last Black Crusade, and this vibration (or sumthin') was similar to vibration (or sumthin') of Gellar field. I'll try to find where it was.



> The Pylons were, as far as Imperial researchers could ascertain, inert until the final years of the 41st millennium. All the Pylons began to resonate with an almost imperceptible vibration, the amplitude of which was discovered to be very similar to that of an Imperial starship's Gellar field. It had long been theorized by the researchers that the Pylons were responsible for creating the large, stable route into the Eye of Terror. The vibration appeared to confirm that theory, as it was assumed that the Pylons were trying to hold back a large warp storm engulfing the region, a theory further reinforced by the very similar use of Necron technology in the Medusa V campaign.


It's from the internet, but I'm sure i've seen this info in nbe book : /


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## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

I want to point one thing out... A horse (64 chromosomes) and Donkey(62 chromosomes) can produce offspring and this goes with horses and other Equus (zebras, donkeys,horses, etc). My thoughts are this, Eldar and Mankind have enough similarities that you cannot tell me they're might be a way (technological intervention) that there couldn't be Eldar/Human hybrids. To touch upon the Tau, one description is the females were very Feminine (human characterist wise) does that mean that there could be cross breeding I not sure, however I know the Tau uses strict sterilization on the human populations for fear of a growth explosion, another part of me makes me wonder if they are not afraid of cross breeding.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Farseer_Iowan said:


> I want to point one thing out... A horse (64 chromosomes) and Donkey(62 chromosomes) can produce offspring and this goes with horses and other Equus (zebras, donkeys,horses, etc). My thoughts are this, Eldar and Mankind have enough similarities that you cannot tell me they're might be a way (technological intervention) that there couldn't be Eldar/Human hybrids. To touch upon the Tau, one description is the females were very Feminine (human characterist wise) does that mean that there could be cross breeding I not sure, however I know the Tau uses strict sterilization on the human populations for fear of a growth explosion, another part of me makes me wonder if they are not afraid of cross breeding.


You do have a point there, but there still is a huge barrier to get across: culture differences. The Eldar think humans are scum, the humans think the eldar are scum, the Tau think humans are scum, the eldar think the Tau are scum, ect... It could work, but results could vary. But still I highly doubt it... and when mean highly doubt, I mean neigh impossible.


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

Euphrati said:


> I wasn't refering to the Blade dancers, but to the Corsair Queen.
> 
> 'Kaarja Salombar sketched him a roguish salute, her wild blue hair swirling around her thin features. Honsou supposed that she was beautiful, with pale skin and warm, almond-shaped eyes of striking violet. There were some who said there was eldar blood in her veins, and Honsou would be hard pressed to disagree. Her tall, slender frame and inhuman grace certainly suggested an affinity with that ancient race...'
> -page 70 The Chapter's Due
> ...


I believe there are two other explanations that are far more likely than a human/Eldar hybrid. First, that she is like the female assassins and death cultists, possessing a slender, lithe frame, and incredible speed and agility through intense training and possibly technology, similar to an Eldar. The other more likely possibility is that she wasn't human at all, but rather an Eldar posing as a human for her own purposes.


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## Ork_boss (Sep 30, 2009)

Technically There could be Half-Eldar Demon Spawn or Half-Tau Human Spawn
Its just a matter of the Mind


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Ork_boss said:


> Technically There could be Half-Eldar Demon Spawn or Half-Tau Human Spawn
> Its just a matter of the Mind


Is that some zen shit?

If you can imagine it, it can exist? bollocks to that


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Rrrrrrrrrr...... Nope, no space marine. Damnit!


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## joechip (Mar 4, 2010)

High_Seraph said:


> um wha? don't ya think the t'au would lose thier hooves Iron? at least a little?


But I like her hooves  They're cute in a Draenei sort of way. As for the topic at hand, it seems that alien hybrids have been mostly retconned out of 40k, and overall I prefer it that way. While a part of me likes the idea of sexy female elder/human and t'au/human hybrids running around they don't fit with the overall "grim darkness" of the setting.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

I posted this to see if how many folks out there can think outside the box but anyway lemme point this out if humans are scum to the eldar why did they train a human to be a harliquin and for all intesive purposes if this human had to live with them which could end with this man breeding with an eldar at some point.

Oh and off topic i need an opinion on something i just recieved word on my formal hearing for my medical board in the navy and the JAG officer assigned to represent me is named LT. Khorne I shit you not!! is this a good thing or a bad thing


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Well... Seeing as its a medical board, it would certainly be better than if you were represented by Lt. Nurgle.

Anyway, if he eviscerates all who oppose you, I can't see why you'd complain.


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## Ravingbantha (Jan 9, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> But that would be like us breeding with spider monkeys to increase our numbers- the Eldar look down on humanity to such a degree we're essentially a bipedal form of bacteria to them.


Consider that humans currently use animals for various medial reasons, in fact the most common heart valve replacement comes from a pigs heart. There are other instances where humans are walking around with an animal part or two in their bodies. So yes there is a chance that a dying race would turn to any option they have to survive, if that means mutilating cattle then so be it.

Regarding the issue of Eldar and Humans not being compatible: Consdier in the Enterprise TV series Humans and Vulcans could not reproduce, basicly the same situation with non-compatibility. Dr Flox discovered a medical way to slightly alter both propsective parents using meds. The alteration allowed humans and Vulcans to interbreed. Now I understand we are talking about Star Trek and this is about Warhammer races, but sci-fi is still sci-fi and thus anything in the realm of imigination is game.

As for Deamons cross breeding with humans: Basicly this would be done by possessing one parent during conception. The idea would be that the essence of the deamon would transfer over into the fetus. While technicly not half deamon, it would essentaily be a deamon tainted child. Now take two such children and have them produce offspring, then your really starting to get to a situation where you might have a half breed. 

Given Tzeentch love to play the long game: There's no reason he wouldn't have thousands of such tainted children created, then manipulate each of their lives in such a manner that they produce offspring, and their off spring get together with others like them and so on. After enough generations you should have a child with enough combined deamonic essence that he could be considered a half deamon.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Yay! Another biology argument. Before I fully jump into this discussion/argument:

Are we using real biology in this discussion or Sci-fi biology? If it's the latter then really, anything is possible. If it's the former then hybrids are not possible.


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## Ravingbantha (Jan 9, 2009)

There is no realistic way to involve 'real' biology in this debate for two reasons 1: trying to bring the realistic in a fantasy setting is always room for an epic fail. 2: You are assuming mankind knows all there is to know about biology and that there is no way to advance it. 

I find it's best to never try and apply modern day scientific knowledge to a setting that is 38,000 years into the future and also involving additional races.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Ravingbantha said:


> trying to bring the realistic in a fantasy setting is always room for an epic fail.


I'm not sure if I agree with that. It's true we can only involve 'real' science up to a point. Obviously the two do not integrate perfectly (or even particularly well), but there's obviously some common ground.

*Back to the crossbreed topic:* I fucked up with one of my definitions, as one of my fellow student's pointed out to me, it should be:

_One of the main conditions that differentiates separate species is the fact that they cannot produce fertile offspring together._ - Keep in mind, as with most categorization there are a few exceptions. So although yes horses and various other horse-oids can produce offspring together, the offspring themselves cannot reproduce. 

As to human and eldar(or tau) hybrids... It depends on a couple of things (I've only listed the two that fluff addicts might actually know):
1) Do they have a common evolutionary ancestor? Or are they evolutionary completely independent?
2) Do they have a similar genetic inheritance to humans? (double stranded DNA)


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Ravingbantha said:


> Consider that humans currently use animals for various medial reasons, in fact the most common heart valve replacement comes from a pigs heart. There are other instances where humans are walking around with an animal part or two in their bodies. So yes there is a chance that a dying race would turn to any option they have to survive, if that means mutilating cattle then so be it.
> 
> Regarding the issue of Eldar and Humans not being compatible: Consdier in the Enterprise TV series Humans and Vulcans could not reproduce, basicly the same situation with non-compatibility. Dr Flox discovered a medical way to slightly alter both propsective parents using meds. The alteration allowed humans and Vulcans to interbreed. Now I understand we are talking about Star Trek and this is about Warhammer races, but sci-fi is still sci-fi and thus anything in the realm of imigination is game.


Well with Star Trek we know that all the humanoid species are distantly related, being the produce of an ancient race so the relative compatibility isn't such a incomprehensible thing.

Humans and Eldar though are separated by millions and millions of years in their evolution/creation- they don't share any common ancestors, their DNA isn't even arranged in the same manner (triple helix for eldar, double helix for humans) let alone having the same number of chromosomes.

Humans currently use animal organs it's true but we don't hate pigs or monkeys with a passion that has spelt the destruction of worlds- the Eldar would rather die than turn their proud race into a filthy, ignorantly brutal one.



TheSpore said:


> I posted this to see if how many folks out there can think outside the box but anyway lemme point this out if humans are scum to the eldar why did they train a human to be a harliquin and for all intesive purposes if this human had to live with them which could end with this man breeding with an eldar at some point.


Before I can cry 'bollocks' on another one of your arguments I'd like to know where this human/harlequin info comes from because I've not come across it myself.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> they don't share any common ancestors


I wouldn't be so sure...


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

They both had their physiology manipulated by the Old Ones to encourage certain physiological traits but other than that common denominator I can say with a degree of certainty that they don't share a common ancestor.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> They both had their physiology manipulated by the Old Ones to encourage certain physiological traits but other than that common denominator I can say with a degree of certainty that they don't share a common ancestor.


In that case there is no way they could cross-breed. They wouldn't even use the same genetic code.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Unless the Necrontyr themselves are the genetic ancestors, and the Old Ones simply took their genes to manipulate into better weapons to use against their enemies. Think about it, what would be better to use against a technologically superior alien race than an improved version of their own race? Necrontyr + warp capability and psykers - radiation damage to genes = Eldar. Necrontyr + physical resilience - radiation damage to genes = Humans. Its fairly obvious that Eldar and Humans share SOME kind of common bond, otherwise they woulod not be so similar physiologically.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The only similarity is their external appearance, having numerous humanoid alien races is a cliche of many sci-fi settings (which only Star Trek tried to explain in any plausible fashion).

Ork are part animal and part fungus, why on the earth would that make them a humanoid? The recurring body shape can be attributed to the manipulations of the Old Ones, they modelled the look of the races loosely off themselves- head on top of the torso, 2 arms, 2 legs etc

You're obviously allowed to have your own opinions regarding the Necrontyr being the Primogenitor race, I just reserve the right to think it's b.s


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Theres just enough similarities to give it consideration. Its not like I'm saying Eldar and Vespids are related. Eldar and Humans actually have some stuff in common.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> Unless the Necrontyr themselves are the genetic ancestors, and the Old Ones simply took their genes to manipulate into better weapons to use against their enemies. Think about it, what would be better to use against a technologically superior alien race than an improved version of their own race? Necrontyr + warp capability and psykers - radiation damage to genes = Eldar. Necrontyr + physical resilience - radiation damage to genes = Humans. Its fairly obvious that Eldar and Humans share SOME kind of common bond, otherwise they woulod not be so similar physiologically.


It's called converging evolution. Two species that are very distantly related, but share a common environment will often evolve with similar physiological traits, that provide an advantage in that environment. Dolphins and Sharks are only very distantly related, but on the outside they look very similar. Eldar and Humans look very similar on the outside, I'm no fluff expert, but what about on the inside?

On top of that The Necrontyr would again have had a completely different genetic code to Humans and Eldar, so you can't just 'cut and paste' there genes together. You'd have to translate those genes into the new code. But even that won't work, because then you've messed up all the transcriptional control in the genome. That's all assuming the two species use the same amino acids, and metabolic machinery, because if they don't.... You get the picture.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I'm not saying they cloned the Necrontyr. But you can't just create something from nothing. All I'm saying is perhaps they used the same template for both races. Of course the code will be different- Thats what genetically engineering a new species is, which is what the Old Ones were good at. They could probably alter certain aspects to get the desired result in their new species, which would have been a quick and easy way to create a new species in a hurry once the C'tan hit and they needed more mentally adept races to fend off the new and more agressive threat. Take an extraordinarily intelligent race, change some parts of it to suit what you want, rather than engineer a completely new code or start from a simple organism and add on, and you get a new species with some vague similarities to the old but the improvements and alterations you need for it to be successful at the purpose you intend it for.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

What your refering to is completely different from the actual 40k races, Eldar, Humans, Orks etc are all radically different- it's not like the difference between say a horse and a donkey, it's not even as (relatively) small a genetic difference as that between a chimp and a tuna. They're radically different creatures who were evolved from organisms that weren't even from the same solar system let alone the same ancestral tree.

Your example would be like me taking a tomato and saying I'm going to create whales and a tyrannosaurus from it (actually that's being generous because it's still not as geneticaly different as Eldar are from humans).


No one said the Old Ones created the various races from nothing, we know that when they were manipulating the human race we weren't actually **** sapiens, we were still small primates that they saw promise in and that because the Old Ones were forced to abandon their interfernce with us before they'd finished we continued our evolution in natural fashion once more.

I imagine the older races were created in a similar fashion, you've got to remember the Old Ones thought and acted in terms of millenia or longer not years or decades, we have no idea how long the War in Heaven lasted but I sumise it was potentially measured in the millions of years.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Spikey, I'm just curious, but why are you so vehemently against the idea? Its possible that, though created from the same creature, over the kajillions of years between then and the 41st, they evolved to become so super diverse. Its not like over the countless millenia the species stayed completely the same- There was definitely evolution involved. Differing environments and degrees of tampering influenced the path of evolution, and they simply grew in opposite directions.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Actually the Eldar have remained *exactly* the same for the last 60 million years or so (ref. _Xenology_) which as you can imagine is extremely unnatural.

I'm vehemently opposed because it makes absolutely no sense.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Well, in that case, perhaps it was purely human evolution that led them in a different direction and turned them into such different creatures. Also, I believe the Old Ones' tampering was a bit more direct than guiding the evolution of a creature- I see them as becoming intimately involved, using science to actually alter their genes for whatever purpose or intent they had.



> It makes absolutely no sense


Need we bring out the "neither does genetically altered humans with laser cannons and bombs with explosions visible from orbit flying halfway across the galaxy in mile long ships to fight each other with swords" argument?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Ah but Space Marines are just a case of adding to the human frame, they might be gentically classed as a different species but not to any where near the degree that a xeons race would- Astartes are still 99.99% the same as humainty for all intents and purposes.

Any way they're an accepted and established part of the fluff, xeno hybrids just don't make any sense.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I wasn't referring so much to Spess Muhreanz, more humans in general having evolved quite a lot since their initital state.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> I wasn't referring so much to Spess Muhreanz, more humans in general having evolved quite a lot since their initital state.


It depends how long ago it was. Evolution in complex organisms can take millions of years, for relatively small changes. The 40k humans may, genetically, have undergone very little genetic change since there creation/manipulation.


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## FatBoyFat (Feb 23, 2009)

We can't make human / chimp cross breeds, (although I'm sure there has been a lot of experiments looking at some of the wonderful people around) and we share greater then 98% of the same dna. So why would any other work?

We all know why really.. I say a cold shower and staying off the hentai sites for a week should sort you out! :biggrin:


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## Malak Falco (Jul 1, 2010)

FatBoyFat said:


> We can't make human / chimp cross breeds, (although I'm sure there has been a lot of experiments looking at some of the wonderful people around) and we share greater then 98% of the same dna. So why would any other work?
> 
> We all know why really.. I say a cold shower and staying off the hentai sites for a week should sort you out! :biggrin:



....actually there's a possible example of that having already happened in the 1920's or sometime thereabouts in Soviet Russia. No clear evidence on if the experimentation had resulted in viable offspring, but they had a willing woman to carry the child to term. Plus the whole thing was going to be done via artificial insemination... Still...


Excuse me whilst I go find the sanctified brain bleach and holy scrub brush.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Malak Falco said:


> ....actually there's a possible example of that having already happened in the 1920's or sometime thereabouts in Soviet Russia. No clear evidence on if the experimentation had resulted in viable offspring, but they had a willing woman to carry the child to term. Plus the whole thing was going to be done via artificial insemination... Still...
> 
> 
> Excuse me whilst I go find the sanctified brain bleach and holy scrub brush.


All that experiment achieved was creating HIV.


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## Ravingbantha (Jan 9, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> They both had their physiology manipulated by the Old Ones to encourage certain physiological traits but other than that common denominator I can say with a degree of certainty that they don't share a common ancestor.


Then one would say that both human and Eldar were once something other then they are now. That being the case ot may be possible to reverse engineer what was done to them and go from there.



Baron Spikey said:


> Ah but Space Marines are just a case of adding to the human frame, they might be gentically classed as a different species but not to any where near the degree that a xeons race would- Astartes are still 99.99% the same as humainty for all intents and purposes.
> 
> Any way they're an accepted and established part of the fluff, xeno hybrids just don't make any sense.


 Oh don't even get me started about the impossibility of Space Maries. I could cover an entire thread on what is impossible about them and how they are not humans. We have more in common with monkey then Marines. An Astartes is no where close to 99.99% human. Without knowing the exact details about Eldar Physocialy it could almost be argued that we are closer to Eldar then we are Space Marines.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

How so? The Space Marines are genetically modified but they're still a human derivative, the Eldar are only similar to humans in the fact they're outward appearance is vaguely like that of a human.
Though even then it's very obvious that Eldar are not humans, they're significantly taller (roughly Astartes height) with a proportionally more slender frame without losing the muscle strength and durability inherent in the more squat **** Sapiens body type- they're DNA structure is vastly more complex than that of humanity, who knows what they evolved from when the Old Ones started tinkering with their ancestor's physiology.

The Old Ones by the way didn't create humans, our ancestors weren't even apes when the Old Ones began to alter their genetic code, they worked on small proto-primates even more primitive than modern day monkeys- they saw promise but didn't have the time to see their lengthy experiment through to completion.

Note: Some people seem to underestimate the vast time spans that take place in some events in 40k's past, example 1: the Scouring that occurred directly after the Heresy (which itself lasted 7 years) wasn't completed till roughly a century had past, whereas some people seem to think that the break up of the Legions occurred only a year or 2 after Horus was slain...madness.
Example 2: the War in Heaven undoubtedly took many thousands, or even a couple of million, years to reach it's climax- 10,000 years of war seems bleak and lengthy but the amount of hostile actions is relatively compact when compared to horrors that raged over 60 million years ago.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

I have to agree with Raving here. The idea of space marines in with connection to reality, is practically impossible. You cant just throw in another heart and tweak the cords around it to get it working, that would require insane bioengineering on a scale that would be almost incomprehensible with today's technology. Even the idea of starting to modify kids at the age of 12 is almost unbelievable. The amount of genetic engineering and construction to achieve this would be the equivalent of creating a new branch of mankind. Im surprised that the eldar didn't said "holy shit" when they first encountered the space marines. Sure they look down on mankind, but to engineer a basic human being to a war machine of insane capability must be in the least sense interesting in their eyes.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Out of all the impossible and useless things that are done to space marines; fused ribs, thickened bones, increased muscle density... You picked the one thing done to them that is actually possible:

http://www.wellsphere.com/heart-hea...-transplant-for-heart-disease-patients/773837


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Thats interesting... but still the idea of adding in a additional fully healthy heart is still questionable. The amount of energy and oxygen to keep both up is quiet ridiculous. Im not stating that its totally impossible, but stating that its unlikely. Thats like having two engines in one car: they have to be perfectly synchronized to work and require twice the amount of fuel, maintenance and regulation.


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## Malak Falco (Jul 1, 2010)

Well increasing muscle density would be difficult, but possible. As would fusing the ribs together... which is somewhat counterproductive since you lose even the slight flexability provided by having ribs rather than slabs of bone there.

Then again we have a couple dozen millinia to figure that one out.


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## Ravingbantha (Jan 9, 2009)

How is a Space Marine not human? Well lets see: They have 8 organs a human does not, they have had several more organs completly removed and replaced. they have been given a new type of blood that humans do not have, their bones have been geneticly altered, which means their bone marrow (a fundimentla structure of humans) has been altered. I would say that is far more then enough to no longer qualify them as human. Geneticly speaking their further away from being human than a Ratling, Ogryn, and Squat is. And we're not even touching on the fact that some Space Marines turn into Vampires or Werewolves.

And don't even get me started about how much of Space Marine fact/data/fluff is impossible, even in the context of it being fantasy.


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## Malak Falco (Jul 1, 2010)

I'd rather look at the genetics myself and if it's similar enough to human stock to still fall within 'human'. Then again a generally accepted test on if a species is just an offshoot or a completely new things whether it and a coupling with what it's being compared to would produce viable offspring. So all you have to do is get a space marine and a woman to have a baby, wait til the child has grown up, and see if that child is capable of contributing to the gene pool. Then you have your answer.

Then again concerning this entire thread I think the following bit of XKCD love springs to mind.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

The fact that almost all of the popular races can somehow trace their origins back to the Old Ones suggests a common source of genetic material is possible. 

Considering there is next to no data on the Old Ones themselves, is it not possible to consider the possibility that all their successor races share a genetic link with the Old Ones at some small level? Perhaps this is why they all seem to have anthromorphic traits.

Pesonally, I think hybridisation is perfectly possible. The perfect example of which is chomping away at half the galaxy as we speak, and if you want another method of cross breeding, I hear there`s this place you can visit where there`s any number of "warped" possibilities, so those of you flatly saying it is impossible are not looking at it from every angle. Remember, sorcery and science are equally potent in the universe of 40k.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

ya see exactly what i was thinking we cant stay in the realm of reality its a possible idea that a chaos sorcerer would try to even fuse a demon and a human together to create a hybrid so thatit could taint the gene pool


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> The fact that almost all of the popular races can somehow trace their origins back to the Old Ones suggests a common source of genetic material is possible.
> 
> Considering there is next to no data on the Old Ones themselves, is it not possible to consider the possibility that all their successor races share a genetic link with the Old Ones at some small level? Perhaps this is why they all seem to have anthromorphic traits.
> 
> Pesonally, I think hybridisation is perfectly possible. The perfect example of which is chomping away at half the galaxy as we speak, and if you want another method of cross breeding, I hear there`s this place you can visit where there`s any number of "warped" possibilities, so those of you flatly saying it is impossible are not looking at it from every angle. Remember, sorcery and science are equally potent in the universe of 40k.


I completely understand the point you are getting too. But there is one problem: the genetic make up. All of the races have completely different genetic make up, which makes it... well... unknowable at this time to see if it works. Though I see where you are getting at when you mean that all of the major players share the same anthropomorphic, but as far as I know, the possibility is slim.

For all we know, the eldar want to avoid human breeding because they foresee a super race forming that would destroy them, but that is more like wild fantasy than an actual theory... but still is would be hilariously awesome. 



TheSpore said:


> ya see exactly what i was thinking we cant stay in the realm of reality its a possible idea that a chaos sorcerer would try to even fuse a demon and a human together to create a hybrid so thatit could taint the gene pool


I dont think they could fuse a physical demon with a human. A demon in the materium is not like our biological make up, they are completely different. But a sorcerer could fuse the main traits of the demon (claws, horns, tenticals, ect) into the human, via mutation and then taint them with either a demon or just a twisted mind. Just a simple possibility.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

i think some of you dont get it do you. FANTASY!!! which means whatever your imiagination comes up with can happen this part 40k breaking away the confines of reality and saying it can be done ya see thats the problem with growing u we stop imagining and let reality take to much of hold on us.

anyway daemons and sorcerors all draw from the war and chaos in itself is whatever it wants to be. therfore given the nature of the warp anything can be as long as it is willed that way. if a sorceror is stong enuff he may be able to fuse the two together. for the sake of it all the emperor created vampire space marines and wherewolves or make daemons spawn from walls and solid objects.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

TheSpore said:


> i think some of you dont get it do you. FANTASY!!! which means whatever your imiagination comes up with can happen this part 40k breaking away the confines of reality and saying it can be done ya see thats the problem with growing u we stop imagining and let reality take to much of hold on us.
> 
> anyway daemons and sorcerors all draw from the war and chaos in itself is whatever it wants to be. therfore given the nature of the warp anything can be as long as it is willed that way. if a sorceror is stong enuff he may be able to fuse the two together. for the sake of it all the emperor created vampire space marines and wherewolves or make daemons spawn from walls and solid objects.


sorry i kinda jacked this up a lil what i meant was or the warp can make daemons spawn brom solid objects


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The High Lords are all actually Eldar in disguise...what? You said I could use my imagination and that's just as believable as xenos hybrids


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> The High Lords are all actually Eldar in disguise...what? You said I could use my imagination and that's just as believable as xenos hybrids


I could see that happening....I mean warp it's made up, anything is possible, including pig men with uzis. Although if you wan't to lessen the fun be all technical.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> The High Lords are all actually Eldar in disguise...what? You said I could use my imagination and that's just as believable as xenos hybrids


Actually, all of the High Lords are eldar, but one of them is a Lord of Change in a disguise to fool the other eldar, and thus ultimately fool everyone else... _Just as planned_...


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

In a WD (i believe it was the one when the last issue of IG was released) they talk about the lost and the damned. In it it says that those likely to join them are humans, aliens or a hideous crossbreed of both. So it's not outside gw fluff for there to be crossbreeds.


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## DonFer (Apr 23, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> No.
> 
> 
> To be more specific- humans are more closely related to dogs than we are Eldar, Orks etc and I'm not seeing any hideous dog-man hybrids wandering about.


Do you consider yourself closely related to a dog? :shok:

I mean, I don't see any dogs around talking to each other, driving cars, inventing stuff, or writing things on internet forums... no wait... forget the last example... :laugh:

Back to topic, I do think that some degree of crossbreeding could happen. Everything is possible in the Emperor's realm.


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

DonFer said:


> Do you consider yourself closely related to a dog? :shok:
> 
> I mean, I don't see any dogs around talking to each other, driving cars, inventing stuff, or writing things on internet forums... no wait... forget the last example... :laugh:
> 
> Back to topic, I do think that some degree of crossbreeding could happen. Everything is possible in the Emperor's realm.


I consider myself closely related to dogs. Almost certainly more than i would to eldar.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I really don't understand.

Why is it that humans and elves can make babies, despite being nowhere near similar, humans and Vulcans can make babies with a few modifications, despite being two species that developed halway across the galaxy from each other, as apparently can humans and Klingons, but someone says that humans and Eldar can mate, two species that were engineered by the same ancient species and could, possibly, even share the same design template, and you start gritting your teeth and hammering out furious rebuttals that have been handed back to you repeatedly. Yes, Eldar have three strands of DNA. Maybe the third strand is just a fabrication by the old ones added to the template to give them their innate and awesome psychic prowess, something they just didn't add to Humans because the Eldar filled that purpose, and we had to begin developing on our own. Everything else is somewhat close, from what I gather.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Iron Angel said:


> I really don't understand.
> 
> Why is it that humans and elves can make babies, despite being nowhere near similar, humans and Vulcans can make babies with a few modifications, despite being two species that developed halway across the galaxy from each other, as apparently can humans and Klingons, but someone says that humans and Eldar can mate, two species that were engineered by the same ancient species and could, possibly, even share the same design template, and you start gritting your teeth and hammering out furious rebuttals that have been handed back to you repeatedly. Yes, Eldar have three strands of DNA. Maybe the third strand is just a fabrication by the old ones added to the template to give them their innate and awesome psychic prowess, something they just didn't add to Humans because the Eldar filled that purpose, and we had to begin developing on our own. Everything else is somewhat close, from what I gather.


Well in Star Trek it's explained that Vulcans, Humans, Klingons etc all have a common humanoid ancestor.

Humans as a species weren't engineered by the Old Ones our distant ancestors that through millions and millions of years (60 million years to be precise) evolved naturally into humans were, thats like us tampering with a rat and 60 million years later assuming we'd be able to naturally cross breed with it- of course humans won't be around in 60 millions years but it's just a loose example.

According to _Xenology_ the only thing Eldar and Humans have in common is their outward appearance, internally they're completely different.

Other than- 'use your imagination' I've not been shown any references that argues against this view point.

Your own statements have essentially boiled down to- because I think they can.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Well in Star Trek it's explained that Vulcans, Humans, Klingons etc all have a common humanoid ancestor.
> Whoa. _Whoa._ So you're saying that two genetically COMPLETELY DIFFERENT creatures could make a baby if they shared a common ancestor. Isn't that the exact same thing I've been saying _this whole time?_ Make a choice, Baron... Can different species with the same ancestor mate or not?
> 
> Humans as a species weren't engineered by the Old Ones our distant ancestors that through millions and millions of years (60 million years to be precise) evolved naturally into humans were
> ...


Its not a big deal. regardless of whether it "makes sense" lets keep in mind this is a setting where giant fungus monsters and robot skeletons attack giant spaceship cities made by elves. This will defeinitely not be the first time two different species have made offspring in a sci-fi/fantasy environment, nor will it be the last.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Baron Spikey & Iron Angel said:


> _Well in Star Trek it's explained that Vulcans, Humans, Klingons etc all have a common humanoid ancestor.
> Whoa. Whoa. So you're saying that two genetically COMPLETELY DIFFERENT creatures could make a baby if they shared a common ancestor. Isn't that the exact same thing I've been saying this whole time? Make a choice, Baron... Can different species with the same ancestor mate or not?
> _
> _ Humans as a species weren't engineered by the Old Ones our distant ancestors that through millions and millions of years (60 million years to be precise) evolved naturally into humans were
> Sort of like how Humans evolved from the race that Vulcans and Klingons evolved from, and you already stated that was plenty viable?_


It's explained that way in Star Trek for the reason most of the species are humanoid and can breed producing fertile offspring, it's obviously a recent ancestor as well (in evolutionary terms)- I didn't say I agreed with it just that your example using Star Trek (which is a useless example as it's 2 entirely different universes) has an official explanation.



Baron Spikey & Iron Angel said:


> _thats like us tampering with a rat and 60 million years later assuming we'd be able to naturally cross breed with it
> You already said it was possible as along as the rat and the modified rat shared the same ancestor._


I was talking about humans and the rat being able to breed 60 million years down the road not 2 types of rat.



Baron Spikey & Iron Angel said:


> _According to Xenology the only thing Eldar and Humans have in common is their outward appearance, internally they're completely different.
> I'll point out that Xenology is written by an Inquisitor, and despite his nature as a radical or his scientific approach, we cannot completely discount a possible coloration to his finds. Regardless of whether or not we can trust the author to be completely unbiased, as has been said, everything contained inside an eldar can be accredited to minor tampers by the Old Ones. I've seen no evidence that their internal organ structure is different from our own in any way other than it is "more advanced", which just means "stronger" or "faster"- Easily tampered attributes. Add some mass there, more nerve endings here, and boom, a better heart. If the same minor tampers had been made to Humans, but in a different way, then you have two speices that, through minor tampers, ended up quite different, but still sharing an ancestor- Which seems to be perfectly credible criteria for reproduction, as you yourself agreed to in the first statement._


Except it's not entirely written by an Inquisitor, it's also from the biological notes of a member of the Adeptus Mechanicus and the observations of a secondary Inquisitor investigating the facility.
I'd suggest you read Xenology properly as it explicitly states that the internal physiology of the Eldar, from what can be discerned, can duplicate similar functions to that of a Human but that they're not the same- some appear vastly more advanced but most are entirely unlike their human equivalent.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Lets not use dark purple over a black backdrop. lol


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Eye strain builds character.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

So does a good ass kicking every now and again but that doesn’t mean it fun.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Touche....


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> The High Lords are all actually Eldar in disguise...what? You said I could use my imagination and that's just as believable as xenos hybrids


Necrons are actually made out of a special type of chocolate.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Necrons are dark chocolate because they're evil


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Necrons are dark chocolate because they're evil


But only after you peel away the aluminum wrapping.


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## Tel Asra Nejoar (Mar 16, 2010)

i like dark chocolate!

*grabs nearest necron and devours him whole*

You lied! this tastes of plastic and paint, not foil and choccy! gonna throw up now...


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

You can breed Tigers with Lions and vice versa. Ligers/Tions exist and those two species are about as far apart as Eldar and Humans. If both were "DESIGN" by Old Ones then why not? All Breeds of Dogs can reproduce with eachother, certain Genes need to match up and you can reproduce. Seriously if a Chiuwawa (However you spell it) can pregnate a Dobermen then why not the super similiar Eldar/Human? If all else fails Genesplicing will work.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Dogs are all pretty similar really, no one quite knows why there is such massive diversification within canines, they're kinda unique. 

Lions and Tigers are all from the Panthera Genus, so are quite closely related all in all. Human close relations are now all extinct, like Neanderthal Man. And we could breed with these species probably. If you want to know how hybrids work you could do worse than read this as a starter. It is by no means complete. 

Notionally Eldar and Humans have not a single strand of DNA in common, not one. They are a different type of life form entirely, far less similar species. Don't try to use biology as a reason to do it. Just create you're on slash fiction and use some magic to make it happen. 

Aramoro


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> You can breed Tigers with Lions and vice versa. Ligers/Tions exist and those two species are about as far apart as Eldar and Humans. If both were "DESIGNED" by The Old Ones, then why not? All Breeds of Dogs can reproduce with eachother, certain Genes need to match up and you can reproduce. Seriously if a Chiuwawa (However you spell it) can pregnate a Dobermen then why not the super similiar Eldar/Human? If all else fails Genesplicing will work.


You're wrong and here's why:



Warlock in Training said:


> You can breed Tigers with Lions and vice versa. Ligers/Tigons exist and those two species are about as far apart as Eldar and Humans.


Lions and Tigers are very close genetic relatives. In fact, in genetic terms they are barely separate species. Close genetic relatives can often create crossbreeds. Attempting to compare 2 species, from a common ancestor, that split approximately 4.0 MYA, to 2 completely alien races, that likely have no common ancestor, and even if they did are separated by at least 60 million years of divergent evolution, completely different environmental pressures and have a completely different genetic structure *is absolutely, positively ludicrous.* It's not even apples and oranges, it's apples and cosine functions.



Warlock in Training said:


> If both were "DESIGNED" by The Old Ones, then why not?


What does that have to do with anything? Just because they designed them 60 MYA from completely alien species doesn't mean after 60 million years of evolution they can cross breed. I doubt they could have done it straight after the frog-men had, had their way with them. Though I'm no fluff expert.



Warlock in Training said:


> All Breeds of Dogs can reproduce with each other,... Seriously if a Chiuwawa can pregnate a Dobermen then why not the super similiar Eldar/Human?


The genetic difference between the various breeds of dogs, and even wolves, is comparable to the genetic difference between the three major human "races". Notice how the word 'breed' is used with dogs, rather than 'species'. It's because all dogs are part of the same species. Yes, even wolves and various other dog-oids.

You keep trying to convince us that the 40k Humans and Eldar are genetically similar. They're not. As someone pointed out Eldar have triple stranded DNA (a ridiculous concept, but it's GW's IP so I'll roll with it) and Humans have double stranded DNA. Based on that fact alone they're not compatible. Now throw in the possibility of a completely different genetic code, the minimum 60 million years of genetic separation even if they do have a common ancestor, the different environmental/sexual pressures, the completely different anatomy and even someone with minimal knowledge of basic biology will tell you that they cannot cross breed.



Warlock in Training said:


> ... certain Genes need to match up and you can reproduce.


HA. Haha. Replace the word 'certain' with "almost all the" and add to the end of the sentence: "the minority of the time.". Then your sentence is maybe, partly correct.



Warlock in Training said:


> If all else fails Genesplicing will work.


40k gene-splicing is different to real world splicing, so I can't really comment on that. You need a fluff expert for that.

*In conclusion:* _This whole argument really boils down to: Genetically and anatomically, how similar are Eldar and Humans in the 40kverse? 
From what I've heard from our fluff experts, apart from their outward appearance which can be explained by other factors, they are absolutely nothing alike._

*EDIT:*


Aramoro said:


> Dogs are all pretty similar really, no one quite knows why there is such massive diversification within canines, they're kinda unique.


It's to do with human interference. Humans breed dogs for specific traits that we want. So dogs that are being specifically bred, have had some (but not all) of their natural-selection replaced with 'Human-selection'. It increases the selective pressures, and allows people to 'direct' they're evolution, to an extent.



Aramoro said:


> Notionally Eldar and Humans have not a single strand of DNA in common, not one. They are a different type of life form entirely, far less similar species. Don't try to use biology as a reason to do it. Just create you're on slash fiction and use some magic to make it happen.


Well put.


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## jasonfly (Feb 1, 2009)

THIS THREAD IS HERESY!

But it is an interesting question, I guess anything could happen, considering races suddenly disappear completely from the 40k universe


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

> It's to do with human interference. Humans breed dogs for specific traits that we want. So dogs that are being specifically bred, have had some (but not all) of their natural-selection replaced with 'Human-selection'. It increases the selective pressures, and allows people to 'direct' they're evolution, to an extent.


I know it's down to the human pressures on selection of animals, but the range and diversity of types of dogs its the bewildering thing. You would not expect a Yorkshire Terrier and a Great Dane to be so closely related as they are. And all done in such a short period of time. 

Aramoro


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Again, it's down to human selection. Human selection is much much faster than natural selection, and can greatly exaggerate phenotypic traits. Also because these 'breeds' are being kept as 'pets', they're not competing against each other in the wild. Normally only the fittest survive, but because humans are providing for all the different 'breeds' they have for pets, lots of different phenotypes survive.

Dogs have a very large fitness (due to they're position as man's best friend). So a large phenotypic variety can exist. Similar to how humans have a large fitness, and we have a very large genetic diversity. Organisms with a lower fitness tend to have less genetic variety. It's a simple explanation but it's hard to put into words.

Also keep in mind dog breeding has been going on for thousands (possibly even tens of thousands) of years, which in natural selection time for a complex, long lived organism is almost nothing, but in human selection time is quite large.


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## Ravingbantha (Jan 9, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Necrons are dark chocolate because they're evil


But dark chocolate is high in antioxidents, which is good for you. technically Necrons should be Milk Chocolate, since Milk chocolate has a higher cholosteral content and thus increase your chances of a heart attack. Bad milk chocolate necrons


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

My thoughts on this topic is that though eldar are a proud race there is a great portion of them that are extremely perverted. I wouldn't think it would be to far a stretch to think of all the experiments and release of pleasures the dark eldar perform they would come up with a few hybrids.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Just face it, GW has made all of this fluff so that it would discourage all the nerds from their hot-an-sexy farseer fantasy.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

maybe we should just emailn dan abbnett or one of those authors and just see what he has to say about


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

Genestealers crossbread with many races (although their "sex" isn't exactly enjoyable, even to the 'Stealer) but in the end, they all evolve into Genestealers...


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Ok... Let's me just answer this once and for all with this. Let us say you are a human male and you see a pretty little eldar lass, although how you managed to make contact without being shot to shit idk, and she for some reason has the hots for you, which she won't, and you get your self a little trans-species puntang..... You will not have to worry about that eldar becoming yo babies mama. In short, fuckyfucky Eldar no makey life form. You probably have a better chance of impregnating a tree.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Euphrati said:


> I wasn't refering to the Blade dancers, but to the Corsair Queen.
> 
> 'Kaarja Salombar sketched him a roguish salute, her wild blue hair swirling around her thin features. Honsou supposed that she was beautiful, with pale skin and warm, almond-shaped eyes of striking violet. There were some who said there was eldar blood in her veins, and Honsou would be hard pressed to disagree. Her tall, slender frame and inhuman grace certainly suggested an affinity with that ancient race...'
> -page 70 The Chapter's Due
> ...


I know, dude. I read it. But...



Aramoro said:


> Sarah Jessica Parker looks like a Horse, that doesn't mean she is in fact half horse.
> 
> Aramoro


...that kinda says it all. Just because she`s skinny and hot doesn`t mean she`s part eldar. And as we`ve been discussing, it really doesn`t sound probable or possible in that sense. 

What I`m saying is she`s almost definitely no hybrid. But as I`ve said earlier, there are other ways to take someone`s power, especially for a servant of chaos.


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## Farseer_Iowan (Jun 25, 2010)

Personally I am waiting for the Eldar to think... hmmm extinction as a species or engage in sexual congress with a human... I just see a human more willing to interact with an eldar far more so then a Tau... then again alcohol has some strange effects, suddenly i hear duel banjos in my head...


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