# Who is Better in your Opinion ( VC Named Lords INformal Poll)



## victarion (Dec 15, 2009)

Who is better in your opinion..... Count Vlad Von Carstein or Manfredd Von Carstein?


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Manfredd...


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## victarion (Dec 15, 2009)

I used to have no doubts that Manfredd was. However, I got to thinking about it this morning and am now not so sure. As someone who has devoted all of his attention to only the VC I will agree it does take magic to make the undead work, but I am not sure it is totally neccessary to field Manfredd. He costs so much more when you get done spending the points on his two arcane items. But more then this Vlad is a real bad ass. Especially if you take Isabella and get her killed. Now you have a level 3 caster with WS 7 strength 5 throwing down 6 attacks a turn at strength 5 with hatred. Each one of these attacks resurects 1 wound from the unit you were in which is nearly always graveguard. So once in combat he effectivley becomes as good as Manfredd in magic because usually the number one spell you are casting when in combat is ION, which Blood Drinker is doing for you, whilst not being a candidate for being dispelled on top of that. If you take the Drakenhoff Banner he is getting a 4+ regen and 4+ ward save. He has two less wounds then Manfredd but far better saves.

A favored tactic of mine to keep my vampires alive is to hide behind the unit champion since you can rez him with ION. Normally you can only hide behind your champion in your own turn since likely the champion will get cut down in your turn. But Bloodrinker allows you to rerezz your seneschal (champ) with the damage Vlad does. So Vlad can ignore challenges---sacrificing senechsal--bring him back with bloodrinker- and hide behind senecshal again in the following phase endlessly, all the while cutting down untold amounts of troops with 6 strength 5 hatred attacks a turn if played right. So if the enemy does actually have a powerful lord to kill Vlad, Vlad can hide from him while very likely bringing more combat resolution to the fight then his +5 overkill bonus for the challenge. OR there is the other argument that if Isabella is killed Vlad is going to work just about anyone in a challenge period. Depends on how you wanna play it.

This is a great tactic to keep him alive and you can rinse and repeat. All this is done without even touching the fact that he is a level 3 caster. Also if he dies he has a 1 in 6 chance of coming to life again in any friendly unit.




The only problem I fear for Vlad is that if you cannot bring his unit of Graveguard into combat you will likely lose. His sword is just to precious to not get used in every battle. This is in contrast to Manfreds powerful magics that can reach out and touch an opponent at ranged. Bear in mind though that magic is very undependable.



I believe I will try wielding Vlad in my next game for the first time to see how he compares.


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## matty570 (Jun 14, 2007)

They are both powerful but I have to say manfred 5 wounds far too many power dice, let alone the ones he generates for wounds caused and the fact that he knows all the spells. He is far too good!


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Though hes not an option I wouldn`t underestimate Konrad Von Carstein. I mean, sure, if he`s against a moderate High Elf _Noble_ hell get cut down before he can cut stuff up, but hes fantastic at smashing into units like Ogres, his combination of Red Fury and his sword (x2 wounds instead of 1) and Infinite Hatred (?) slung inside a block of Grave Guard he`ll get cut down anything which dosen`t have ASF, a good initiative or is covered in brass and rides a Juggernaut wielding a Fuck-off axe....

Back to Manfred Vs Vlad, then they are roughly the same... Vlad is the better in combat and a good spellcaster, where as Manfred is still a moderate force in combat but a dangerous spellcaster. My only problem with Manfred is that you really need him in combat to make him an exceptional spellcaster, and more often than not he`ll either be overwhelmed by CR or just cut down...


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

victarion said:


> Who is better in your opinion..... Count Vlad Von Carstein or Manfredd Von Carstein?


Vlad for the sheer fact he is a royal pain to kill. (And keep dead)


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## victarion (Dec 15, 2009)

I ran Vlad last night in a unit of 18 Graveguard with a Wight King BSB ( Drak). He shut down a unit of hammerers with a Dwarven Lord and his shield bearers on it, even though the Dwarves actually got the charge off and I forgot stupidly enough to cast my miasma of deathly vigor spell.

I have to say I was quite pleased with the way the army handled with Vlad at the wheel. I have probably played 20 or so games with Manfred leading the way and Vlad was a fine and more then capable replacement.

The loss of magical prowess was noticeable but not so much so that I couldn't keep up with incoming damage as I advanced ( his gunline and artillery ....1 cannon, bolt, and two organs). In fact by turn 4 I was able to get off some nasty offensive magic on him even with the reduced power dice ( curse of years). All this and Vlad still had a Black Coach that sucked up some of his dice over the turns. I think the thing to keep in perspective is that whilst Vlad is no Manfred in the magical department, he is still by no means a weak caster. I had 9 power dice in my list which proved to be adequate against 5 dispell dice and 2 Dwarven Dispel stones.


My opponent quit on me on the start of my 5th turn so I didn't get to see the game thrue but Vlads sword was definitely bringing the pain and was set up to sting even worse for the last two turns. It would have been a likely massacre since my Coach was in charge range of the hill with his artillery on it and Vlad was controlling the middle with every sword stroke



To those VC players who were like me and only ever let Manfred take the wheel I will tell you this, give Vlad a try, he wont let you down. Just make sure your list enables Vlad to close the distance as quick as possible with the enemy and get into combat as soon as is possible. (maybe a couple level 2 dark acolytes and a book of arkhan would be great)


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## Tombking (Jan 5, 2010)

Both are fantastic - as they should be but they are very different, so different infact that they hardly bear comparison. i play a Manfred army, great spelcaster but if he dies in big games thats your lot, where as vlad is as near imortal as any WHFB character can be.

manfred can have extra magic items and a monster mount however so i find he is far more flexable.


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## bunji213 (Dec 11, 2009)

bobss said:


> Though hes not an option I wouldn`t underestimate Konrad Von Carstein. I mean, sure, if he`s against a moderate High Elf _Noble_ hell get cut down before he can cut stuff up, but hes fantastic at smashing into units like Ogres, his combination of Red Fury and his sword (x2 wounds instead of 1) and Infinite Hatred (?) slung inside a block of Grave Guard he`ll get cut down anything which dosen`t have ASF, a good initiative or is covered in brass and rides a Juggernaut wielding a Fuck-off axe....
> 
> I laughed my head off when i read that! brilliant. if its covered in brass and riding a juggernaught its probably best to hide whoever you happen to be. que elf star dragon riding prince with null stone and lance


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## Mitchy (Apr 19, 2009)

Manfredd, for all the reasons listed


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