# dnd playing yourself



## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

hey i have been playing 3.5 for about a year and a half and 4.0 about once (not that great) but now i have a problem... i need some ideas for a level 5 party of 7 humans all good ish, like i need some campaign help i will also be playing my own character (me) but yeah i dont know how to do this kind of campaign. has anyone done this before. please help


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

Are you asking how to play a game alone?

Diversify your character classes. Since your playing alone, it's a good opportunity to experiment and try out things, in which case, I would also recommend using different races. Getting to know the races better allows you to add more flavor to your campaigns.

For a campaign, just start with the first thing that comes to mind and go with it. Played a fun PC or console game lately? Use that for your campaign setting! EX: I'm hooked on Bionic Commando and Dead Space for now, and some of Half Life 2. So, I incorporated the elements of these game into my D&D: Survival horror, bionic enhancements, gravity weapons, mutated creatures, abandoned cities, and just went from there.

You can find good campaign material all over the internet. Look up Greek Mythology on wikipedia, or use content from 40k and BL books. Have a favorite chapter in Gaunt's Ghosts or Soul Drinkers? Take what you liked about those chapters and find the D&D components that match.

Good luck! And if you're not having fun, then what's the point?


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

hey um no im not looking at how to play alone im trying to get ideas for a game where a group of 7 people play in the game as themselves. sorry for any confusion caused. but i think your help still stands so thanks for that


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

Think about what kind of games your players would be interested in. You don't have to play everything by the book. There's alot of game systems for d20 for real cheap at amazon.com and other bookstores.

If you want something quick, grab some graph paper (you can get the posterboard with grids on it now for a couple of bucks, that's really nice) and just draw some quick dungeon maps on it. Fill in the details using the back pages of the dungeon master's guide.

Another quick fun idea is to create an arena pit to fight in. Create a list of monsters and rewards starting with lower levels so they can fight their way to the top.

A few classic settings are:

A haunted mansion or castle crawling with low to high level undead

A dragon's den with tunnels full of kobalds

An incan/mayan style temple, half - sunk in a swamp that is infested with lizardmen and crocodiles or dinosaurs

A dwarf mine deep below ground that is overrun with demons that escaped through a portal uncovered by the dwarves.

If you need more ideas, look through comic books or watch one of your favorite movies for inspiration. The fantastic four, the xmen, the BPRD, the avengers all have great ideas, because they have adventures for heroes who work as a team. I always thought it would be fun to use the golden army or those frog creatures from Seed of Destruction in a game.

You can also use:

wikipedia to look up older dungeons & dragons stuff

blizzard.com and dow2.com for map and terrain ideas.

Hope that's more helpful!


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## Major Strombardt (Feb 22, 2009)

Ask your other players what THEY like/want...do they like puzzles? Do they like Hack and Slash? Monty Haul style games?

Single session adventures or Campaigns?

What are YOU good at? Any of those? Do something you are good at and it will be better for all involved.

Dungeons and Dragons is the Ultimate really for imagination. Use yours!

:grin:


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

ghazghkull-killyork said:


> hey um no im not looking at how to play alone im trying to get ideas for a game where a group of 7 people play in the game as themselves. sorry for any confusion caused. but i think your help still stands so thanks for that


As I understand this, you're trying to stat your real world self as a 3.5 edition AD&D character, correct ???

If so, there are a couple of ways you can go about it, but generally speaking they are VERY dependent on how old you are.


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

yes you are indeed right daneel. me and my group are all around 18 but are all very mature ( like thought wise ) for our age group so i think if you were talking about a pg and r18 sort of thing we are fine with both.... so whats your idea daneel


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

The age thing isn't so much a matter of "rating" or "adult content" as in comparative stats. The idea behind writing up a stat block like AD&D does is to establish some degree of parity between players, a "level playing field" if you prefer. If you have a game with a 30 year old doctor and a 17 year old high school student, that age differences can introduce complications, since those 2 people are at completely different stages of their life - and personal things like how intelligent or wise or good looking you are can be stumbling blocks to some people. Since you're all the same age, you should be at roughly the same baseline, which will help a LOT.

With that said, I'd caution against direct comparisons inside the group as a way of establishing stat scores. The inevitable, "I'm more intelligent than you are" arguments can destroy a game before it starts. 

The best way I've found to go about this is to hit up a 3rd party for a "Stat yourself" quiz. As long as you all agree to abide by the results of the quiz no matter the outcome, *BEFORE* you take the quiz you can be relatively sure of no hurt feelings. Especially if you're group is as mature as you've indicated, and you all realize that the quiz is going to be necessarily inaccurate since no quiz can pigeon hole a person like this.

This Character Quiz is one I've used in the past. The questions are highly situational in some (ok, many) cases, but it's pretty good for all that. 

There is Another Here, although this is just for base statistics. If you wanted to you could do both and take the average :laugh:

Keep in mind that you have to answer the questions honestly, or the result is going to be false on it's face :biggrin:

That said, after the test was taken, as a GM I'd look at the raw results (given at the end) and allow room for negotiated changes to character class and / or race.


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## Major Strombardt (Feb 22, 2009)

Ahhh...now I see!!

Take my advice...playing yourself almost NEVER works!

Where are you gonna get "The Science Fair Winner", "The Captain of the Football Team" and the "State Champ Wrestler" to sit and play with the "Kleptomaniac", "The Archery Queen" and the "Town Midget"?

Lets face it...the reality world sucks in terms of Dungeons and Dragons! That's why it's ROLE-Playing...not REALITY-Playing.

A noble idea...but take it from a DM with over 25 years experience...it wont last long!

My opinion Mate!

Cheers!


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

well "thanks" for the "encouragement" but i have a way that i think will make this game work. one, beingthat i wont be writing my own story as such, i will be using the story of arachon from whfb and make him a recurring character as he starts to find the relics. and there is going to be an anonomus stat finding thingyme by getting people to tell me what they would give other people, in private. i will then average it all out and that will get the best restult i think.
i personally dont see any problems in this idea but i havent tried this before. what generally happens in your experience????


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

When I have players who can't decide on who they want to be right away, vs the usual:

EX: 

Joe: I want to be a fighter! :biggrin:

Bill: Are you sure? You were a fighter last ti... 

Joe: I want to be a fighter! :biggrin:

nuff said.


I'll ask players how they want to interact with the characters in the game. If they just want to smash everything, kill monsters and get treasure, they're usually happy with the tough guys, like rangers, barbarians, or fighters. You may even get a few clerics, so the party can heal, but with the new healing surge rules, that's not as big a deal.

On the other hand, you can get players who want lots of acting, dialogue, item creation, or character development (that means more and more fluff, not just levelling up to slay the dragon). That doesn't mean they can't be tough guy fighters, rangers, or barbarians, but the other classes do lend more to those preferences.

The challenging part is balance. If you have a diverse group of tastes, you want to put just enough emphasis on want each player wants, but try not to go overboard. But don't worry, if a player is losing interest, just think of something that would hook him back in, and add it to the game on the next round. And if it's your first time, don't worry about getting everything right. The best DMs can go with the flow. Players may find they want to change things about their characters, too. There's nothing wrong with starting over if too many things go wrong, but ask the players what they think.

A big helper for my games is player feedback. I often give rewards to players who call out rules mistakes or ask for changes. That kind of approachablility can have alot of appeal to your players, and you can all feel like you're contributing to the game.

Besides, if you're not having fun, then what's the point?


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

thanks. so far i think everyone is similar in their tastes. also as far as the classes go it will be based partly one on skill but mostly based on personally. but if anyone else can help please do it will all be much appreciated


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

Hmm. I think you could add certain personalities to any choice of race or class, but if you want some ideas...


Quirky:

An elf druid that won't climb trees due to fear of heights

A dwarf paladin who has claustrophobia

Tough:

A dragonborn gladiator escaped from the pits

A half-orc fighter from the slums of an overgrown city

Shining Heroism:

A warforged paladin with over 100 years of experience in battle, but at first level due to amnesia, probably inflicted from a recent fight against a forgotten arch-enemy.

A human cleric from a long noble bloodline, sworn to defeat all evil who threatens him homeland.

If you need more, look no further than your BL collection and comic books.


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## Major Strombardt (Feb 22, 2009)

ghazghkull-killyork said:


> well "thanks" for the "encouragement" but i have a way that i think will make this game work. one, beingthat i wont be writing my own story as such, i will be using the story of arachon from whfb and make him a recurring character as he starts to find the relics. and there is going to be an anonomus stat finding thingyme by getting people to tell me what they would give other people, in private. i will then average it all out and that will get the best restult i think.
> i personally dont see any problems in this idea but i havent tried this before. what generally happens in your experience????



Well...staying within your "ordained" alignment will be the hardest. Even when experienced players play they have difficulty with this aspect of gameplay. Also, the alignment factor says alot about you to everyone else...are you sure you want to tell everyone (if you could of course) how you would react to every situation?

The next problems you will encounter are those "personal" choices people make in the game...now you will have to "Justify" these. Who do you save? Player A or player B? Remember...it's YOU and you will be judged accordingly.

Most people who play D&D are utterly AVERAGE and the stats will show this. Thus my example of the unrealistic types of players sitting at the table...you will be like THOIUSANDS of other normal PCs'NPCs

What makes you different in the game? Quite frankly...nothing.

I for one LOVE playing the trickster...as I am NOT very good at it real life!

I suppose it's not all negetive but isn't playing yourself just looking in the mirror wanting to be dressed like Conan?...or Merlin?...or Legolas?

:shok:


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

ok i see your point but in my particular we actually do stand out from the crowd with our strengths e.g on person is really smart and to the point where he tutors adults on computering and calculas and such while i ( younger by 2 years ) am also the brightest in most of my classes. others are stronger. more dexturious and such. this game will start of as us playing ourselves and then become what we wish to be as we level. so its not looking in the mirror wanting to be some one, instead its looking and steping into the mirror to become that person. this is why i think my campaign will succeed


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## Major Strombardt (Feb 22, 2009)

ghazghkull-killyork said:


> ok i see your point but in my particular we actually do stand out from the crowd with our strengths e.g on person is really smart and to the point where he tutors adults on computering and calculas and such while i ( younger by 2 years ) am also the brightest in most of my classes. others are stronger. more dexturious and such. this game will start of as us playing ourselves and then become what we wish to be as we level. so its not looking in the mirror wanting to be some one, instead its looking and steping into the mirror to become that person. this is why i think my campaign will succeed



Good Luck!

Let us know how it goes!

:victory:


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

i shall indeed, so far i have the opinions of the stats everyone should have ( including classes) from all but 2 people so i have 5 sets of votes, i have also started on the start of the campaign (fluff wise) but am unsure on whether to have planned or random encounters? what do you guys think


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

A little planning can go a long way if you're trying to make the encounter complex, say a guardian that asks a series of riddles, or a villian that has security patrolling the area with an escape plan for when the players are about to win. Otherwise, you can do things totally random. Making random tables is one way of doing this, but if they're used too much, the game can tend to get repetitious. I like to use the first thing that comes to mind with my random encounters, and sometimes the result can be really impressive, or just downright silly.

Just use random thoughts:

A travelling band of goblinoid clowns and circus trolls - are they entertaining or a dangerous group of enemies?

A rampaging horde of bugbear barbarians - they could attack the players, but then again, why are they on a rampage in the first place? Maybe the players can help.

A treant that has been petrified by a basilisk - you can try to find out a way to cure the tree and find the basilisk.

And if you would change something about the things I listed, what would it be? Make it your own and use it.

Hope this helps!


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

as yet i havent yet planned much but this is what i have so far.

Campaign story line:
All characters ( at about 12ish in the night) hear the sound of a burning building along with
“ye dark gods hear me now, I have devoted myself to your down fall, now I shall the same for your uprising, I am but your slave, your pawn , putty in your mighty hands. Please let me feel the change, I will embrace glorious disease, give in to temptation and deal mighty blows to your enemies. If you embrace me as your chosen!

If any character were to look outside their windows in the right direction they would see the very prominent temple of sigmar, burning to the ground a dc 25 spot check will also allow the characters to see 2 other normal houses also burning to the ground the 2 buildings are in an average part of the moderate sized town.


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

Nice opening. A few things I would add to the encounter:

Sigmar priests scrambling desperately to put out the flames at the temple, while paladins struggle with the minions of the new chosen to stop his ritual. The players may intervene to help the priests or the paladins, or both.

Townspeople are trying to help the families who are trapped in the burning houses, but there is no way in from the streets. A character with good dexterity or acrobatics could find another way in to rescue the trapped families.

Enemies burst in through the player's doors to their rooms and they must fend off the attack.

Just some ideas. Change them to your liking and do what you think fits best.


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

very nice ideas i think i will use the people running away from the temple. however i dont think i will allow them to get to the house in time as the point of the npc burning the house down is to destroy any evidence of him existing. if you are fammiliar with the story of arachon then this is the story i will base it off.
he will be a reccurring character, and at each stage in the story the characters will either see him there and fight him or he will have just left or just be arriving.... i know this leaves a bit to spare but i think for the purposes of the game the wont be able to beat him but the will come along plenty of monsters and citys along the way.

also i have added some more now as follows
If in the morning the characters choose to investigate, they find themselves at the site of the large building that was burnt and see nothing in particular e.g. no footsteps, however, they do see burnt pieces of paper and the a search check of a dc 25 they will find a charred piece of paper saying “the true powers…. Will be …… apocalypse….chosen of the dark gods to rule….beaten” the paper also reveals the location of a sacred artifact, which (after a dc 40 knowledge arcana/ bardic knowledge check) is revered as the fist artifact of chaos.

They will then get 100 role playing exp. If the knowledge check is failed they will get 50 exp and follow the next step
However if the characters choose not to investigate the burnt building, they will each receive a summons to the mayors council and receive the knowledge of the whereabouts and history of the magical item that a scholar ( whom is unknown at this point in time) seems to have gone after, the same scholar who yelled the terrible pledge to the last fateful night. 

This item is called the mark of chaos…


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

Ah, looks more like a detective adventure. In case you have any trouble in leading the players to their objective, look at each clue you have already put in place and try to make smaller clues that link them together. Place these clues on a "path" that eventually but indirectly leads the players to each location where you have planned encounters. If the players decide to take a direction that leads of the course of the plot, have some encounters and clues ready that can turn them around. The town gates could be closed by the local government until the perpetrators or arsonists are found.

Just some ideas I had that may contribute to your campaign. I haven't read any stories with Arachon (Archon? I've read some Summer of Chaos reports in old WD issues), so you may just have to re-read for help on that.


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

nice! well the stort of "arachon" is in the warriors of chaos army book.
just one question... how exactly would they get past the guards and such in time???? what would you do


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

Well, assuming you're referring to your opening scene, and Arachon is your main antagonist, it should be set up where the players defeat a few guards, only to see Arachon escape, or they get past a few only to get overwhelmed. Let Arachon say a few lines for flavor.

If you're going to set a scene for the bad guy in a burning town, Sepheroth in FF7 is a prime example: cutting down bystanders, talking to himself, leaving no one alive, then he gets away. If that doesn't drive the players, nothing will!


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

i think the cutting every one down may be a little over the top and considering this happens in the night they could get out of the city before anything happens (guard wise) but only if they are quick. although if they dont all go there might be a problem with keeping the group together.


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

It is possible to run a campaign with the party split up, and sometimes this strategy can work well for the party if the characters can hold their own, which is entirely up to the DM in the first place. If it does get too far off track or complicated, you can direct the group back together through a series of encounters. Again, it all boils down to what your players want to do, and you probably know what they want much better than I.


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

Now that I think about it, it would be fun to run an opening encounter where the players are forced to run for their lives. That was one of the things I loved about the Half Life games -- you could handle certain enemies, but you were never too far from the real dangers either. The resident evil games also force the players to run in situations, at least for the first time you play. 

You could unleash an army of demons, monsters, or evil soldiers and force the players to run or die fighting. Just make sure your players are the type that can accept when they're outmatched. Try and make some of the escapes real narrow, like climbing over walls in the alleyways to escape a charging pack of hellhounds, or something like that. The city could be littered with burning debris and the buildings could fall down around the players. Make it feel like they could be killed at any second, at least until they can make a good exit.


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

im not sure that arachon killing everyone around him is such a good idea but i like the burning buildings falling on/near them... could be very fun.
also i plan on being a real pain of a dm like i might have some one appear like they are standing on an invisible bridge, and if some one is stupid enough to go "ill charge him, illl use the bridge hes on" the is will be, "ok you attempt to charge him but you fall down a sheer cliff.


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

Heh, that will find out what kind of players you have real fast. It's not unheard of for DMs to lure characters to their death, and some groups prefer their games to be insanely challenging, or even enjoy killing their characters. It is game, after all. You could call it Grand Theft D&D!! :biggrin:


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

man you make me laugh. well i think that one will get insanely pissed if his guy dies. while i think others will laugh. in quite a few games we have played ( with more than 5 people) the players complain about getting bored.... how do you combat this.


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

Boredom comes from the repetition the games can fall into. When you work really hard to plan an elaborate adventure and it turns out to be boring (hey, it happens) for the players, don't be afraid to throw in something really crazy. 

Instead of having the players fight the standard MM monsters all the time, add new attacks or characteristics (usually done with templates for 3.5) The Savage Species book is really cheap at Amazon, and can really serve this purpose well.

If the encounters or story telling gets old, interrupt it with something totally random, like an extremely rude member of nobility bursting in and taking over the scene. Add punchlines to character dialog.

Try to be spontaneous above all things, and you can't go wrong! If the players devise a plan that seems ridiculous, let them follow through and give them results that are equally whacky. Just think, wouldn't it be fun if...


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

in your groups do you get the people who try make the "one man army" type characters, or even the type that seek to destroy your campaign......?


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

I've made the ubercharacters myself, aka munchkins. It's fun for a while, but winning everything and never losing because your AC is 100 and your giant slaying twohanded sword of doom + 20 is only fun for so long. If someone wants to make a character like this, let the rest of the group have a similar character and let them play some dungeon hacks, basically draw about 20 + rooms on scratch paper, fill them with every monster you can think of, load them with treasure, and let the group have at it. The Diablo games thrive on this idea. When the group gets bored, see if they want to try a regular game again. If they agree, then you can focus on the story telling, role playing, and puzzle solving. Not every game has to be so serious. My brother played sessions at college that would make Gary Gygax cringe.

Are your players trying to destroy the world or ruin your game sessions? Destroying the world can be fun, too. Some players just want to be the villian. This goes back to the Grand Theft D&D idea. They can run amok, looting and pillaging any victim foolish enough to cross their path, authorities and hitmen can try to run them down, towns can mob up with torches and pitchforks, just go with it and see how far it goes. This sort of player could make a good resource for developing your villians.

If they're just trying to ruin your game, kindly tell them to show respect to the rest of the group by being a good sport or go find somewhere else to play. One bad apple can spoil the bunch! It may be a good idea to ask how the rest of the group feels about that one player's attitude. Ever watch the D&D animated series? I could not help but notice how the main characters represented the different kinds of players your find in a group. I would place Eric as the quintessential lousy D&D player.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

ghazghkull-killyork said:


> in your groups do you get the people who try make the "one man army" type characters, or even the type that seek to destroy your campaign......?


I find it's best to place certain... restrictions on characters when letting people build them. Depending on the level of your campaign, you might want to restrict magic somewhat, as at level 15-20, wizards and other full casters are insanely powerful compared to a lot of other classes (especially martial characters). Below that, they are powerful, but not game breakingly so.

If you find people are making super-characters by taking levels from a whole bunch of classes for the sole reason of becoming more powerful, you might want to restrict multi-classing somewhat. Nothing dire, just let players know they can only multiclass with 2 classes and a prestige class, rather than allowing them to dip into a bunch more classes.

The best idea though is just to vet characters - get players to show you what your characters are going to be like a week before hand, and have them explain what they're like at their most powerful (if they have some super-combination), and how they'll work in a group or alone. Sometimes you'll just have to say "no" to a particular combination, if it doesn't fit in with the type of game you're looking at running, or if it might ruin it for other players.


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

daniel: one guys said " i will destroy your campaign" and from him this means he will make it almost impossible to make it a challange for him. in one game they decided to get a spell to get them max ranks in all skills they have (one was a factotum) and another to have an insane to hit modifier (this was via spell creation and a wish spell)

max: thanks, one or two the guys that play almost start to black mail when i put restrictions on that they dont like. maybe black mail is the wrong word but they either play but dont make an effort in playing or just dont play at all. i think i have the right restrictions for the time being.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

ghazghkull-killyork said:


> daniel: one guys said " i will destroy your campaign"


Thats... a little different from how we play  power games like that could be interesting. Just remember you're the DM, so you should be able skew things however you want. If they use magic a lot to overcome your challenges, make use of anti-magic fields, use creatures/objects with spell resistance who can cast dispel, and hit them with spell theives and spells/poisons that affect Intelligence. If they use teleporting spells a lot (like dimension hop/door, teleport or whatever), have a magical trap that sends them to some weird place.

If you simply have a lot of trouble making them follow a story line, don't be afraid to get an ultra high wizard/demi-god to cast Geas on them - the ultimate way to get them to do a quest 

Good luck though, sounds like you're in charge of a rather unruly mob


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

yeah "unruly" thats one word for it.... na normally they are a good sensible bunch. however when they descide they are being picked on ( like saying you cant take spell braid) they can either get into the "if i do what i want no one can" or "if i cant do what i want then i wont even try" 
i have tried an anti magic feild once but force effects still work.............
but i do think i will have to try that magical trap though... should be fun


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

If you have to post limits the players' character abilities, is it because they are simply overpowering the encounters --ie one hit kills or spells that wipe out the whole group -- or is it because the puzzles and effects you set up in the dungeons are just getting whisked through by powerfuls spells and the lot.

If your group is simply beefing up their characters too much, just make the opponents tougher or increase their numbers. Turn the bugbears into fiendish bugbears!

If the players are complaining about restrictions, you may try explaining what could happen to the campaign if the players just did what they wanted. Sometimes you just have to follow the rules if you want to play the game. You could also try letting everyone take a turn at being the DM, maybe then they would learn to appreciate what you're trying to do, and you may also learn a thing or two from letting them run the show.

If they say no to that, tell them that you're going to run the game, and they're going to like it, and if they don't then go play someplace else! :biggrin:


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

thanks for the encouragement,
and i know im throwing a heap of negatives at your hints and help so sorry about that.
the problem with telling them to play some where else is two fold
1) we are all really close friends and still at school together and see eachother nearly every day.
2) there is no where else to play. to my knowlege there is only one other group that plays where i live and they play their games in baby steps. like it takes about a month to get from level 1-2 not to mentoin they are all about 30 years older than us.

another thing i find is that they all know the books we have really well (we have e books, and about 110 now (for 3.5 alone)) so they complain when i say that there is a feindish dire were-bugbear/prismatic dragon, or something to the effect as they know they are nuch higher cr than they are and dont even think about the fact they are uber already.
also i have found when they make uber characters they level like nothing as they are easily fighting 3-4 levels higher than they actually are.

on a brighter note i have been much too lazy to write more on the campaign at the moment so instead i have been sorting out the feats they will be getting (mostly by vote, with my dming over-rule of corse).

oh and they do both, just generally plan on beating everything they come across with ease. however this is one of the benefits of them playing as them selves, i can give them riddels and they must solve it them selves with out getting any help from their int mods (e.g. clues and such)


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

If they're your friends they'll probably get a good laugh when you tell them to like it or play somewhere else. Just make sure you do it with style!! :biggrin:

Yep, power gamers. I swear you should let them run through some dungeon hacks and exorcize their lust for wealth and power. I wouldn't have a problem entertaining that crowd, as I say, let the players have what they want and let those wants drive how the game plays.

I think your idea for making the players adjust their characters to their own real life stats is an interesting idea, and I am curious to see how that works. I wouldn't mind trying to see how well the real me would actually do in the D&D world.

On a side note, I had a ridiculous power gamer for a player for many years. I don't think it was possible to run one serious game session, so instead of getting frustrated, I just went along and we had alot of fun just trying silly antics. Rescuing the dwarf slaves so we could use them as living shields for our escape, shooting the red dragon in the nuts and smothering with an angry mob of the same dwarfs, then letting them all get killed so we only split the treasure two ways!

There was also a player whose character was a drug dealer that threw magic dust in the enemy's face so we could beat them senseless.... :taunt:


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## Major Strombardt (Feb 22, 2009)

ghazghkull-killyork said:


> thanks for the encouragement,
> and i know im throwing a heap of negatives at your hints and help so sorry about that.
> the problem with telling them to play some where else is two fold
> 1) we are all really close friends and still at school together and see eachother nearly every day.
> ...


Sounds like they are not playing the game for what it is: A ROLE playing game! They can't KNOW everything that is in books just because they can read it and cross reference it!

D&D is playing the ROLE of a Fantasy Character...NOT a grab for power at all costs.

Maybe your players need a reminder of this.

Maybe the guys who are 30 years older then you can give you some advice and experience of what a game session is all about. Talk to them.

One of my favorite characters of all time never made it past 5th level...and I played him for over 8 years!


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

ill let you know how it goes d, and its not so much they get popped back but they were raised there, other wise they cant really take feats or any class really...
and yeah i think that they really need to play it as a game, not as a competition.
and also now they cant even meta game a little as they cant say "well my characters int is high enough to know ....." 
Also i think i may need to make new monsters so they dont know the weaknesses and such.


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## Major Strombardt (Feb 22, 2009)

ghazghkull-killyork said:


> ill let you know how it goes d, and its not so much they get popped back but they were raised there, other wise they cant really take feats or any class really...
> and yeah i think that they really need to play it as a game, not as a competition.
> and also now they cant even meta game a little as they cant say "well my characters int is high enough to know ....."
> Also i think i may need to make new monsters so they dont know the weaknesses and such.


Just make "Tougher" Bugbears...


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

like i said i think i might just make a dire feindish "celestial" prismatic pscionic collosal bugbear mummy mindflayer......... i dont know if they could beat this. oh and as a last note its contagous. this would be a challange for anyone. getting int dropped wihile being charmed by a collosal bugbear that has a concealment of 50% and is contagous with mummy rot and were-bearness, that breathes on you and turns you to mud or ice with a bonus to hit of "i dont care i roll a one and still hit you" with a ac of "i dont care you roll a 20 and still miss" i think i will have to add this in


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

A swarm of Vampiric Dire Weasels  Seriously, they rock, especially when given extra hit dice and a bonus to attack.

Here's a monster creator for you, it's very handy for putting monsters together. If you need some ideas for fendish traps/encounters, let us know


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

What about vargouille infested hellhounds? If they don't tear you to pieces first, your head will drop off a few days later and you will become one of them...


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

max, ill look at that now, and sounds good
d, are they even in a book????????


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

oh and d i realised it is archon not "arachon" sorry about that i hadnt read the book for a while, and didnt realise untill now. sorry


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

The vargouilles should be in the 3.5 Monster Manual. They can infect any creature, so you just take some hellhounds and infect them with the vargouille disease.


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

thanks i will look into that it sounds cool.
and i have added more but cant find it on my laptop but ill tell you the general idea.
just as they arrive at the hall way and find themselves unable to see with any means (including true seeing and seeing in magical darkness) whilethis happens they hear archon exit the buliding with the burning mark of chaos apon his head.if they choose to follow him they can other wise they can make a survival check of dc 10 +5 per day they dont follow him + additional modifiers for weather (randomised). if they choose to follow him they will fall behind as him and his growing group have no need to sleep.
at this stage archon becomes aware of the group following him and destroys a city and leaves notes for the group.
about how futile their plans are.
they track archon to the sea where they see his ship sailing into the distance, they know it is his as one of the dock men say he gave them a message, if they take a boat they can always see him in the distance.


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

Hmm. Sounds eerie. I'm not sure whether Archon's trying to discourage the group, or lead them into a trap, or lure them into his cult. I like it. 

In Archon's case, I would have the messages in the form of some mark of chaos burned into a corpse draped over a sign post, or the door of a church. Maybe Archon could invade the dreams of the group when they sleep, or something much more subtle, as Tzeentch would do, maybe a guide could meet them and lead them to where Archon wants them, assuming that's what Tzeentch would want as well...

On that note, have you thought of ways to incorporate the four chaos gods and the church of sigmar into the campaign? A holy war would certainly make a good climax to your plot.


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

thanks i thought it would be quite a cool idea.
i hadnt thought of that, sounds really quite cool. like having magical marks that can be almost burnt into the minds of the characters in their native tongue. also the guide idea i think i may borrow, like have the guide the only remaning person alive (to really up to destruction).
and yes i have decided to add the four chaos gods, however i think it is fair that the characters are NOT allowed to follow them as the campaign is set to the destruction of the four gods. they all will have their own very powerful spells e.g. tzeentch followers get (increasing with power as they please him) prismatic spray and other such spells, while nurgle followers will get massive damage reduction, khornites will get rage ability but better, and slaanesh will get mind corrupting spells ( and they look good)

ill start changing the previous part of the campaign notes as soon as i can have more time on my laptop.


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

Sounds cool. Keep us posted! :victory:


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

and i have added more but cant find it on my laptop but ill tell you the general idea.
just as they arrive at the hall way and find themselves unable to see with any means (including true seeing and seeing in magical darkness) whilethis happens they hear archon exit the buliding with the burning mark of chaos apon his head.if they choose to follow him they can other wise they can make a survival check of dc 10 +5 per day they dont follow him + additional modifiers for weather (randomised). if they choose to follow him they will fall behind as him and his growing group have no need to sleep.
at this stage archon becomes aware of the group following him and destroys a city and leaves "notes" for the group. they are all everburning chaos marks,etched upon the bodies of that days massacare, that burn in their minds as if exploding runes were cast in the minds of the reader,the messages tell, about how futile their plans are.
they track archon to the sea where they see his ship sailing into the distance, they know it is his as one of the dock men say he gave them a message, if they take a boat they can always see him in the distance.


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

for any one who has not read the entire thread (i dont expect you too) this is the story so far
All characters ( at about 12ish in the night) hear the sound of a burning building along with “ye dark gods hear me now, I have devoted myself to your down fall, now I shall the same for your uprising, I am but your slave, your pawn , putty in your mighty hands. Please let me feel the change, I will embrace glorious disease, give in to temptation and deal mighty blows to your enemies. If you embrace me as your chosen!

If any character were to look outside their windows in the right direction they would see the very prominent temple of sigmar, burning to the ground a dc 25 spot check will also allow the characters to see 2 other normal houses also burning to the ground the 2 buildings are in an average part of the moderate sized town.

If in the morning the characters choose to investigate, they find themselves at the site of the large building that was burnt and see nothing in particular e.g. no footsteps, however, they do see burnt pieces of paper and the a search check of a dc 25 they will find a charred piece of paper saying “the true powers…. Will be …… apocalypse….chosen of the dark gods to rule….beaten” the paper also reveals the location of a sacred artifact, which (after a dc 40 knowledge arcana/ bardic knowledge check) is revered as the fist artifact of chaos.
They will then get 100 role playing exp. If the knowledge check is failed they will get 50 exp and follow the next step

However if the characters choose not to investigate the burnt building, they will each receive a summons to the mayors council and receive the knowledge of the whereabouts and history of the magical item that a scholar ( whom is unknown at this point in time) seems to have gone after, the same scholar who yelled the terrible pledge to the last fateful night.

This item is called the mark of chaos… 

The trek to the chaos icon is hilly and cliffy the trek takes about 9 days of 6 standard walking and in the final 2 days the terrain changes from vast plains to large area of cliff faces and some small plains with large and deep crevasses and splits in the ground.

just as they arrive at the hall way and find themselves unable to see with any means (including true seeing and seeing in magical darkness) while this happens they hear archon exit the building with the burning mark of chaos upon his head. if they choose to follow him they can otherwise they can make a survival check of dc 10 +5 per day they don’t follow him + additional modifiers for weather (randomized). if they choose to follow him they will fall behind as him and his growing group have no need to sleep.

At this stage archon becomes aware of the group following him and destroys a city and leaves "notes" for the group. they are all ever burning chaos marks, etched upon the bodies of that days massacre, that burn in their minds as if exploding runes were cast in the minds of the reader, the messages tell, about how futile their plans are. They track archon to the sea where they see his ship sailing into the distance, they know it is his as one of the dock men say he gave them a message, if they take a boat they can always see him in the distance.


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

here is an update of what i have been doing,

After 3 weeks sailing they all must take a fort save of DC 15 or get scurvy due to the ships lacking supplies. On the fourth week they arrive at the destination and they see the ship sea fang “docked” on the beach of this small island. If they chose to similarly “dock” on the island they dock in a near literal bed of the natives bodies. They see in the bodies another set of ever burning brands a map of where he is heading…


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

Do you plan to add any monsters or bosses to the island encounter? Perhaps the corpses could reanimate as daemonhosts.


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

no i havent yet i was just going to get some ramdom monsters from monster manual and slightly modify them as the characters are getting closer to the chaotica umbra (shadow of chaos) so the creatures are feeling the touch of chaos. what book are daemon hosts??
man you are awesome with ideasi would never have thought of half the stuff you have!


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## dradcliffe09 (Sep 4, 2009)

(bows) Thank you! I get a kick out of adding new stuff.

On daemonhosts, I would look at converting 40k or Inquisitor rules-based stats to 3.5, or you could use one of the 3.5 templates on the creatures of your choosing, like planetouched, half-fiend, or whatever suits your taste. Think of Cherubael from Eisenhorn and think of how you could apply his personality and powers in 3.5.


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

oh yeah that could be cool. thanks. ill post an update when i can.


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## ghazghkull-killyork (Jun 15, 2008)

Whether they chose to follow the map or use a track skill check they will end up in the right place,
Along the way they come across 3 small bands of maraurders (5-10 lvl appropriate barbarians) and one large one just outside the entrance to the temple. This takes 2 days with one night encounter of 3 maraurders. After beating the “bouncers” they enter the temple and enter a series of labyrinth like tunnels about 5ft wide by %die long and traps are present on a 50/50 % roll, and a % of that with the % die for placement using the standard trap table in a dnd book. after roughly 5 hours walking the can hear a massed clashing of metal.


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