# Daemons? What are your thoughts



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

the winds of magic random results have bought a very unpredictable nature to the new army book but theyve also added in things like the skullcannon which adds alot to the army. 

what are your thoughts?


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

I like the new randomness, as it makes the army fun and special; I can see why it would niggle people who want to focus on strategy and tactics though.

I am less fond of the high-tech models (Soulgrinder, Skull Canon, &c.) as they do not fit well with the Fantasy aesthetic, although having neither used nor faced them yet, I have no issue with the rules. If I am struck with a good counts-as idea I would consider using them.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I really don't like the skullcannon, and this is why:

Compare it to the lion chariot as it was when the skullcannon was released (I don't know its current stats/points).
For 5 pts _less_ you got:
+1 T
+1 armour save
5+ ward save
ability to heal wounds, very easily
scythed wheels
+1 attack

on the downside it doesn't get:
ASF
S6 attacks from the crew

... seems pretty excessive to me. Oh, almost forgot: it also gets a _cannon_.


I kinda like what they've done with most of the book. I like the locus system and think heralds now make a lot more sense, but I simply hate the skullcannon (it even pisses all over the ogre ironblaster, being 35pts cheaper, with better EVERYTHING except for T and cannon bounce) and can't for the life of me be willing to accept anything as random and potentially game changing as the Reign of Chaos table.

I think the Reign of Chaos table should be like entering a mysterious forest: there are some good results, some bad results but generally nothing that's going to utterly change the way the game plays out. But the daemon table would be like having forests that could instagib a unit that entered them, or make them almost unkillable. Ridiculous.


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## Zero Effect (Feb 15, 2011)

I am actually doing for my project log a daemons of chaos army.

I have read through the army book and I like the reign of chaos chart. If you don't please the gods then say goodbye to some of your army, however of you please them then reap the benefits. I know it is on a dice roll but that makes me feel more chaotic.

I am looking at doing a Tzeentch and Khorne list and adding some Nurgle. All three will be an added challenge to my painting skills. 

I get a little feeling though from what I have read that this could be classed as a more experienced player list than just pick it up and see how much blood is taken for the blood god. Agree or disagree? 

Zero Effect


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Overall I find the new Daemons book to be a massive fail...

- Reign of Comedy table.
Likely one of the outright worst things in the whole book! What does it do? It either tends to do nothing at all, or else it sodomises one player rather viciously in the Magic Phase... A low roll for example not only bones the Daemon player's actual casting abilities, but it also screws you over over by potentially zapping a character, (perhaps your Lv4 who costs over 500pts?!), leaves you pretty much naked unless you play Nurgle, or can outright insta-gib your entire army! (or more likely, you lose a rank across multiple units, sometimes suddenly swinging a combat drastically in favour of your opponent)
Or on a high roll, the Daemon player gets to feth-over their opponent badly, either by potentially nuking their main dispeller, or how's about bringing in a 'free' unit late game to instantly contest/claim areas?!

I know they wanted the table to be fluffy and all, but for feth's sake, it should have been kept to the Shooting Phase like 40k's version... The Daemonic shooting phase is pretty empty as it is. Putting it here not only alleviates the likelihood of one player getting unfairly raped in what's possibly the most important phase of the game outside of movement, but it also stops the game from slowing down to a damn crawl when working out the 'Angry God shows up' results that are guess what... worked out like shooting attacks anyways?!

Oh and finally, why are my Instruments suddenly so useless in Fantasy?! I can actually spam more of them in 40k ya know, so it's not like the re-roll would break the table when the 'God X shows up' results come about...
As it is, I get to watch, completely helpless as Nurgle dances across my Tzeentch units, or else Slaanesh eats that Skullcannon.

And the kicker? Going by RAW, the God-storms only effect Chaos units unless you have a copy of the FAQ! (and even then, I know those who try to argue against it...)

- BSB & General issues.
For some moronic reason, our Inspiring Presence & BSB rules only work on 25% of our army book... Again, I know the aim is to be fluffy, so why not just stop these rules from affecting the opposing gods?! (ie: a BSB of Khorne won't benefit any Slaanesh units and vice-versa, ditto for Tzeentch/Nurgle)
As it is, you're now shoehorned into going mono-god, or else building your army around 1-2 huge bricks of infantry in order to gain the same abilities of every other army you'll ever face.

Stupid mechanic that no other army has to put up with!

- Overnerfing.
We all know that Daemons needed toning down. Hell, even Daemon players agreed our book was utterly filthy in 7th! But as always, the book goes way too far on the main culprits...
Look at the poor state of Bloodletters for example. -1S, lose Hatred from Heralds AND a +2pts per gribbly increase!:hang1:
Seriously, just hitting them with the pts increase alone would have been enough, or else knocking their strength by -1 and a +1pt/model increase would have been a good nerf...

Overall though, Tzeentch & Khorne are next to useless outside of LoC, ambushing Doggies & Skillcannons.
Tzeentch magic especially is laughably weak. The God of fething magic now knows only 2 magic lores?! Seriously, WTF? Would it have been so heinously unbalanced if Tzheralds kept their Master of Sorcery gift, but be forced to generate spells normally? (ie: keep it similar to the VC version)

- Heralds are generally overcosted crap.
Nurgle Heralds are the only ones that are decent now... Khorne Heralds have the most laughably overcosted Locii of anyone. 75pts for Hatred?! On a T4/W2 character with a 5++... Tzheralds instead of being wizards have 2/3 loci abilities that boost theirs & their unit's fighting abilities, but you don't want them anywhere near combat?!
Add to this how badly organised the Rewards are and you've got yourself the outright worst characters in the game.

- Rewards.
Compare them to the 40k versions, and the organisation of them is laughable... It's almost impossible to get protection on your Heroes, while the decent Magic Weapon options become overcosted due to having to pay a flat 50pts for the 30-40pts range weapons.
At least in 40k for example, if you want a protective Reward, you can go for a Greater Reward and 4 or the 6 results make you harder to kill, making it reasonably reliable. The Fantasy book though has 1 protective reward in the Exalted level, 3 in the Greater level and 1 in the Lesser level...
Not cool at all that we're the only army that can't reliably protect our characters, including our Lv4 wizards who tend to cost at least 400-500+ pts!

I also find that unlike in the 40k version, you tend to either luck into really good rewards, or you get useless crap. Heralds are especially vulnerable to bad gift rolls, meaning you're almost always better off just forgetting about rewards entirely, or else just auto-taking something like Fencer's Blades on a Nurgle Herald.



Overall I find the new Daemons book is a massive mess of internally imbalanced crap...
Nurgle is amazing, Slaanesh & Khorne have a couple good choices, and Tzeentch is pretty much just kicked to the curb outside of the LoC w/Wand 'o Win.

It just feels like Ward didn't really want to put any kind of effort into this book, and so Daemon players are now stuck with a pile of crap ala 7th ed Orcs & Gobbos.

And then he finished crapping on us by going and writing the new High Elf book which is pretty much bringing the Grey Knight type of shenanigans to Fantasy! (F-you Banner of UltimateSkill Dragon!!!)


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