# Master Of Mankind is out (spoilers)



## Lord Mephiston (Sep 16, 2010)

At least on Ibooks. I bought mine from there. I gotto say, it's a much better written book by ADB than his previous HH books. His trademark snappy dialogue isnt there, the story is DEEP as hell, in the first few pages of the books we get a look at Emps in his 'younger' days. 

But I dont expect there to be any massive revelations like that at the end of Praetorian Of Dorn. Well one minor revelation is that 

The Emperor views his Primarchs as little more than weapons. He told that to his Custodian in the flashback to the Emperor commiting the first ever eye-for-an-eye revenge murder in the history of Humanity! 
And the Emperor is old as fuck. Now I'm starting to believe some of these created by Old Ones, C'tan offspring theories etc. 
. 

Interesting, but I wouldnt expect anything earth shattering to be revealed here. Will post more as I keep reading.

P.S. This book has some heavy shit lol. No warm, fuzzy feelings to be had here...


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Definitely ADBs best novel so far. Theres some mindblowing stuff to come..


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## Lord Mephiston (Sep 16, 2010)

It also "feels" different from your regular HH novels. Mainly because, the people in the book and talked about in the book are of a different culture to your regular Space Marines and how they appear in books in general.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I most say I haven't read this book yet, so after this comment and request I am out for now from this thread, but I must say, his snappy dialogue is great when it's appropriate. Like the Night Lords it's perfect for, in small doses it does great for his Word Bearers. What it did not do good for what his Grey Knights. It felt out of place there. But anywhoo, as I am waiting for the paperback, is there anyone who could provide the character-rooster for this novel so I know who is in it?  I'm planning on making a War in the Webway-army, and want to know what character to moldel after.


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## Primarch Tolu (Mar 27, 2011)

Really great book and worth the wait.

It was never going to be everyone's cup of tea due to the fact it's the closest to a book about the Emperor there has ever been, so many things to cover, so many things people want answered.

But sad to see what the Emperor actually thought of the Primarchs, I wonder if he ended up thinking of him differently near the end.

The end was petty depressing too, I won't spoil it for anyone but the Emperor's last words to the custodian he spoke to sent a chill through me.

I wonder if ADB actually likes the Emperor as a character? After reading MOM I'm not sure he does, I have a few issues with the Emperor myself after reading that.

Can't to see where the series goes next after this, should just be the juicy solar war stuff now right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jr3212 (Jan 7, 2017)

Primarch Tolu said:


> Really great book and worth the wait.
> 
> It was never going to be everyone's cup of tea due to the fact it's the closest to a book about the Emperor there has ever been, so many things to cover, so many things people want answered.
> 
> ...


Most of the numbered novels should be the solar war and maybe the resolution of the Martian civil war. The last HH novel I read was pharos, I've been working on TBA so I'm not totally caught up on the latest. I heard that the wolves got something going on so we'll probably get one more novella of them, and the schism in the dark angels will probably get wrapped up. I doubt they'll leave the other loyalists plot threads hanging. After Meduson I'd be very surprised, and a little annoyed if we don't see Shadrak Meduson and Tybalt Marr square off. In short GW has a lot of stories to milk before terra. Hell the Blood Angels haven't even reached terra yet.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Absolutely refuse to touch the HH hardbacks and am a bit behind in the reading thus, but could not resist this one and caved in and got the audiobook... That was some intense shit, from start to finish. Will probably have to sit down and actually read the thing before I can wrap my head around everything that went down. Just sooo good. 

The Custodians were so cool to finally see done properly as well, after that absolute shit fest of a portrayal in The Beast Arises.


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

*There might be some vague spoilers in this post.*

I finished it last night and I have to say that it's one of my favourite HH novels.
The Custodes actually felt as powerful as they should. Over the past few novels I've seen a bit of a iffy balance of power when it comes to the Space Marines. Some times they'll be so tough that they just seem laughably invincible. Other times they'll be as squishy as jelly. It all depends on who's writing it. There's always huge balance towards whoever is considered the focus of the novel. For example, if XXXX legion is the main focus, you'll see a squad of 5 marines killing over 9000 YYYY legionaries. If YYYY is the focus, you'll see the exact opposite. Take Praetorian of Dorn, where the Alpha Legionaries are so OP that a single one of them could easily take down a multitude of Imperial Fists.

In this particular novel, it felt balanced. Custodes were dropping, but only after taking a huge number of enemies with them. They're super Space Marines and you get the real feeling that they are.

I actually liked how the Emperor was portrayed. As mentioned previously, how he regards the Primarchs was somewhat shocking, but perfectly understandable and I think it fits the character. He has one focus and one focus alone, everything else is a tool to be used to complete that focus. And as for the ending...yeah...wow.


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## Brobaddon (Jul 14, 2012)

The way he calls them by their number " Sixteenth/Twelfth " etc was quite shocking, he doesnt even use their names most of the time. 

I actually felt bad for them throughout most of the book.



> In this particular novel, it felt balanced. Custodes were dropping, but only after taking a huge number of enemies with them. They're super Space Marines and you get the real feeling that they are.


Yeah they were great. I only wish there was more of Silent Sisterhood action instead of vague references and mentions. 



> For example, if XXXX legion is the main focus, you'll see a squad of 5 marines killing over 9000 YYYY legionaries. If YYYY is the focus, you'll see the exact opposite. Take Praetorian of Dorn, where the Alpha Legionaries are so OP that a single one of them could easily take down a multitude of Imperial Fists.


Reminds me of Deathfire and tragi-comical rape of Death Guard. Oh Death Guard are tough? No problem, ill just proceed to kill several of them single-handledly and maybe earn a wound to the shoulder, sigh.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Even Guiliman acknowledged that the Emperor, while sublime in many areas, was a terrible father.

But with this growing dehumanization of the Emperor, I am curious to see how they will manage the final encounter with Horus. The Master of Mankind certainly seems to have little regard or empathy for the primarchs, and per the Outcast Dead, he is already resigned to a terrible resolution of their meeting. 

Whereas the older fluff had him hold back due to a love for Horus. But in this new incarnation I frankly cant see this happen.


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## stooge922 (Feb 3, 2017)

SPOILERS 

What are your thoughts on how the Emperor dealt with the demon of the first murder? Obviously fast forward to 40k and Ra must have failed, for Abaddon wields Drach'nyen ... The story of how Abaddon receives the sword that was "in stasis for millennia" is interesting, it doesn't mention a Custodian at all.


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## Kharn The Complainer (Aug 19, 2015)

stooge922 said:


> SPOILERS
> 
> What are your thoughts on how the Emperor dealt with the demon of the first murder? Obviously fast forward to 40k and Ra must have failed, for Abaddon wields Drach'nyen ... The story of how Abaddon receives the sword that was "in stasis for millennia" is interesting, it doesn't mention a Custodian at all.


Chaos lies. Don't trust them when they say that the sword was in stasis.


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## Stephen74 (Oct 1, 2010)

Brother Lucian said:


> Definitely ADBs best novel so far. Theres some mindblowing stuff to come..


Really? his other stuff must be truly awful then. This was a seriously long winded dreary story that just made me despise the emperor even more. 
The concept for the story was excellent. Just felt it was poorly delivered. Not the worst HH book, but very tough to get through at times. Great if you cant sleep. 10 seconds tops and your out like a light.


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## Bullitt (Sep 21, 2011)

At the end of the book the Emperor ascends to the golden throne again. Why? As the imperial forces are retreating they describe the mechanicum built tunnels exploding and collapsing. The book made it seemed like these were artificial tunnels forcing an connection to the real webway. So if they collapsed how does the connection still exist? Also, when the Emperor seals the gate he turns off the machinery powering it and they end up looking at a blank wall. Reminds me of SG1 when they close the stargate. So if the tunnels collapsed and the gate is closed what is he doing on the throne at this point? I always though he was holding the gate closed. However, the way it's described it doesn't seem like he would need to do that. Maybe I'm understanding it wrong. Thoughts?


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Bullitt said:


> At the end of the book the Emperor ascends to the golden throne again. Why? As the imperial forces are retreating they describe the mechanicum built tunnels exploding and collapsing. The book made it seemed like these were artificial tunnels forcing an connection to the real webway. So if they collapsed how does the connection still exist? Also, when the Emperor seals the gate he turns off the machinery powering it and they end up looking at a blank wall. Reminds me of SG1 when they close the stargate. So if the tunnels collapsed and the gate is closed what is he doing on the throne at this point? I always though he was holding the gate closed. However, the way it's described it doesn't seem like he would need to do that. Maybe I'm understanding it wrong. Thoughts?


My speculation is that theres just raw immaterium on the other side of the closed imperial webway gate. And even if shut down, it represents a place where the barrier between worlds is -quite- thin, and thusly a weakness should the Emperor cease pressing on it from the other side. What which once has been opened, can be opened again. But yeah, the golden throne was a webway borer, drilling into the deep warp to connect to the ancient webway. Magnus' folly made the human built sections unstable and constantly required the Emperor's will butressing them to avoid a total collapse.

One oddity however. During Rise of the Primarch, it had been hinted that they originally had planned on exiting by the warpgate in the Emperor's throne room, but after Magnus was chasing them, they detoured to Luna as they could not risk the Emperor's safety. Even Magnus complained to Guiliman that he would not reach the golden throne for now, but wanted to make sure that neither guiliman did.


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## Bullitt (Sep 21, 2011)

Brother Lucian said:


> My speculation is that theres just raw immaterium on the other side of the closed imperial webway gate. And even if shut down, it represents a place where the barrier between worlds is -quite- thin, and thusly a weakness should the Emperor cease pressing on it from the other side.


I can see that. I would think they could have used Geller field tech to seal it. Maybe just long enogh for him to I don't know get a sandwich, go to the bathroom, kill Horus. Maybe there are caveats to the tech that prevent it? I don't know much about Geller field fluff so.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Bullitt said:


> I can see that. I would think they could have used Geller field tech to seal it. Maybe just long enogh for him to I don't know get a sandwich, go to the bathroom, kill Horus. Maybe there are caveats to the tech that prevent it? I don't know much about Geller field fluff so.


While it was said the Chaos gods breached the Emperor's genelab to snatch away the infant primarchs, in the First Heretic we see word bearers getting sent into the past to cut the powerfeed to the geller generators to allow the chaos gods to act. But it remains to be seen if it was actually truth or just a lie planted by chaos. But i suspect it will be retconned to the Sigilite needed to take the Emperor's place on the golden throne to direct the astromonican while he faced Horus as he could not spare any power for it at all. The power need was handled by the unspoken sanction draining mortal psykers to feed it.

The Second Battle of Terra happened shortly after Guiliman's arrival when the Astronomican went out. I feel theres a strong connection between that, and the Emperor actually being awake on the Golden Throne and communing with his son, as he could devote more of his power to it while the beacon is offline. The astronomican didnt come online again until after a high level delegation from mars had arrived to tireless work in the bowels of the golden throne and succeeded after many weeks. When the Astronomican went offline, Khorne immediately lashed Terra with 88 daemonic legions, that wasnt banished until the beacon was restored.


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