# Valkyrie help needed



## Bolshavic (Dec 8, 2008)

So I got my first Valkyrie and have put it together except for the weapons ( and yes it does look goodk:, will definitely be getting another couple), and have come across a delima how to arm it.....

Do I make it : anti infantry multi laser + missle pods 
anti tank Las cannon + hellstrike missiles
combi 1 las cannon + missile pods ( very expensive)
comb2 as standard codex multi laser + hellstrike



Will be equipping with magnets in the future to allow weapon swaps, especially for apoc games but atm just cant decide on what role to give it.


Any help would be appreciated....


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

i would go with anti-infantry, and give it H.Bolter sponsons to boot. i dont think the valkyrie would make a effective tank hunter IMO, not reliable enough. use the anti-infantry valkyrie to harass the enemies flanks, like sentienels and also to make troops keep behind cover or flush them out of cover into your squads fire zones


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

It depends a lot on how you are moving.

If you deck your valk out with weapons you are going to have to stay still to fire them all. A transport valk can manage with only one serious gun because it only gets to fire one, if it fires at all on any given turn.

I personally like the basic weapons fit. Each missile is like a battlecannon shot, and it's quite nice to have a vehicle able to move 12" and fire a battlecannon. It can only do it twice, but by the time it has done so a lot of stuff will be hurting and it should have dropped off its troops.

The main argument against ordnance missiles is that if it fires them it can't fire anything else. A valk is no lumbering behemoth, after all.

You can also fire your two MRPs while moving fast because they are defensive. You can get a respectable amount of anti personnel fire from the two pods and a multi-laser. It's much less effective against MEQs, but it puts out a pretty sustained amount of firepower. If you get to fire it 6 times you will do a lot more than the two hellstrike missiles normally would, but there's a pretty good chance your opponent will do something nasty to your valkyrie before then.

Personally I don't go for the lascannon, regardless of your wing weapon. It isn't going to get fired along with your ordnance missiles and isn't for shooting infantry with. You can get loads of lascannons elsewhere in a guard army anyway. If it was something like a multi-melta then it might be interesting.

Door heavy bolters are tricky. If you are prepared to stay still then you get a fair amount more shootiness, and this might be worth having. Not a great cost and not a huge difference though, so take it or leave it I'd say.

One of the really interesting weapons is the hellfury missile the vendetta can have. It's interesting because it's defensive, so it can fire all 6 of them in one go. 6 large blasts is the kind of firepower, for one turn, that you would normally associate with a small titan. This version should have door hvy bolters for sure, if only because it will be unarmed once its missiles are gone.


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Hellstrike missiles (from my interpretation of the rules) are nothing like Battle Cannon shots. The wording for "Ordnance" weapons states that anything marked "Ordnance Blast" uses the Large Blast marker, which the Hellstrike does not specify (it says "Ordnance 1"), so by the rules as far as I can tell, you get a S8 AP3 shot at BS3 that rolls 2d6 pick highest against armor (not that great). In my experience, a Valk's best load-out is Multi-Laser + Multi Rocket Pod. It makes for an awesome transport unit (12" everytime) and puts out a great amount of firepower (2 S4 Large Blasts is nothing to sneeze at when you're an enemy infantry squad).


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Sqwerlpunk said:


> Hellstrike missiles (from my interpretation of the rules) are nothing like Battle Cannon shots. The wording for "Ordnance" weapons states that anything marked "Ordnance Blast" uses the Large Blast marker, which the Hellstrike does not specify (it says "Ordnance 1"), so by the rules as far as I can tell, you get a S8 AP3 shot at BS3 that rolls 2d6 pick highest against armor (not that great). In my experience, a Valk's best load-out is Multi-Laser + Multi Rocket Pod. It makes for an awesome transport unit (12" everytime) and puts out a great amount of firepower (2 S4 Large Blasts is nothing to sneeze at when you're an enemy infantry squad).


This man is right about the Hellstrikes.
It's like the Ork Kannon solid slug was in the 3d ed. codex, counted as ordinance for armour penetration, but nothing else.
Frankly I think that if you're taking a squad of 3 Valkyries, it'd be best to have:
1 with Pods and Multi
1 with Pods and Las cannon
1 with Missiles and multi, and heavy bolters.

The problem with the Heavy bolter sponsons (I haven't actually fiddled with the model, so I'm not sure) is that, unlike SM tanks and such, they can't both fire forward.
It's more like a 160 degree arc straight out to the side, you you could fire the Multi laser and one heavy bolter, but not all three.
Unless of course it was a really big unit you were shooting at.

Any way you go, they'll be fairly good, heck, even Pods/Lascannon would be good (although yes, quite pricey).


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

Are valkyries a good unit? Should they mostly be used for transport or fire support.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Spot The Grot said:


> Are valkyries a good unit? Should they mostly be used for transport or fire support.


Keeping in mind of course that I haven't used them.
I'd say they could be either, depending on what you give them, or both, if you use them well.

With Rocket pods, they're quite powerful anti-infantry, as they can basically hit every model in a unit with a bolter. And using their speed, they could dart around behind a wall to negate the target's cover save.
Remember though that the Rocket pods are Strength 4, so they're defensive weapons, Valkyries are fast and so can move up to 12" and fire one main and all defensive, so if you take Pods then they can fire all their weapons (excluding sponsons).

If you wanted to use them mainly as transports, I'd suggest leaving them with default equipment, and maybe giving them the Heavy Bolters.
With the standard load out they can do a decent amount of damage to infantry (maybe even enough to make them fall back), especially with the sponsons, and can seriously threaten vehicles.
No-one wants to have a S8 missile coming at them, especially when it rolls 2d6 and picks the highest.
And considering the speed of the vehicle, it could very easily reach side, or even back armour facings, enhancing the effect again.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I didn't spot that the missiles weren't large blast. I'd still say they follow the ordnance rules as far as firing only one weapon though, as they are still ordnance weapons.

It does mean that the missile pods are very significantly better. Bearing in mind the amount of cover around the place, ap3 is not that big a deal.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Someguy said:


> I didn't spot that the missiles weren't large blast. I'd still say they follow the ordnance rules as far as firing only one weapon though, as they are still ordnance weapons.
> 
> It does mean that the missile pods are very significantly better. Bearing in mind the amount of cover around the place, ap3 is not that big a deal.


Oh, by all means, if Pods cost nothing, I would take them every time.
But they don't, meaning they're not 'better'.
You would NEVER use your Hellstrikes against infantry, only MC's and vehicles.

The point is, the Hellstrikes have their use, and the Pods have their own.

And yes, I agree that firing a Hellstrike would mean no firing anything else.
Although (unless you had a lascannon) you wouldn't want to.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

A Valkyrie probably ought to be packing the missile pods and the heavy bolter sponsons. I'd leave it with the multi-laser, too, I think-- ultimately, the thing is a flying Chimera, and it should be used to deliver a squad and clear out nearby opposition so they can eliminate the single target you've picked out for them. 

The Vendetta strikes me as sort of an A10 sort of thing-- mobile anti-tank weapons are excellent no matter how you cut it, but moving six inches and unloading three twin lascannons on a tank is pretty exceptional. Sure, you can get lascannons in spades elsewhere in the army, but they're not mobile and not that concentrated.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Guys have a look at page 58 of the BRB, at the bottom of the lefthand column:
"Unless otherwise stated in their profile Ordanance Weapons use the large blast template."

EDIT: Misread it, its all Ordance _blast_ weapons use the lareg blast template


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Weird one on the valk's missiles for me. Somehow it's taken me a long time to get my head around the 3 different types and what they all do. So we have:

Standard fit; a single shot, ordnance, non-blast. Roll to hit, not scatter etc. Fire this and nothing else.

Alternate fit; a couple of frag missiles a turn along with the multi-laser. Not too bad.

Vendetta standard; 3 twin lascannons. Quite a scary gunship and highly effective against tanks and MCs.

Vendetta missile variant; 6 large blasts ignoring cover saves, once each but defensive so all at once if you want. Most horde units will no-longer exist after one of these things fires at them.

Vendetta mixed, say with a single pair of lascannons and four missiles. I like this option a lot actually. I think a single twin lascannon is still great to have on a tough platform that moves 12" and fires.

Maybe the key argument against multiple pods is that a valk with pods costs as much as a vendetta. I'm liking vendettas more at the moment. I can't really see much justification for a lascannon on a non-vendetta when it will either have missiles to fire at tanks, so not need/be allowed to fire a lascannon, or pods to fire at infantry, in which case the multi-laser is fine.

Taking all of this into consideration, you wouldn't catch me gluing weapons onto a valk. I'd want to try everything.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Actually, I'm pretty sure the Vendetta can only take 2 Hellfire missiles.
It says "replace two twin-linked lascannons with two Hellfire missiles".

Which, I assume, means you end with 1 TL LC, and 2 HF missiles.


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## ItsPug (Apr 5, 2009)

Yeah just after checkin the codex and Winterous is right, you replace 2 twin linked lascannons with just 2 hell fury missiles, you might find a use for them against horde armies but i'd stick with the TLLCs.


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

I've run a few lists on Vassal using the alternate Valkyrie set-ups, tried damn near everything.

My first few tries with it involved using Hellstrikes as Large Blast weapons. It had fooled me for a while too.

Multi-laser + Multi-Rocket is the best Valkyrie set-up in my opinion. It's a transport, and this accents that beautifully, allowing it to move fast (and REALLY fast if things get dangerous) and lay down a withering fusillade of anti-infantry fire. Combine that with some melta vets riding with it, and you have one hell of a unit.

Vendettas are best as is, 2 Hellfury missiles are not worth losing 2 twin-linked lascannons, maybe if it was 4 or 6, but even then, you have weapons that don't really match (really good Anti-tank/MC, really good anti-horde). In my opinion you are going to see these in every match now. They're cheap as chips, highly survive-able, hit like a ton of bricks, and can transport troops in a clutch situation. People pay an arm and a leg for versatility combined with that much firepower in other factions.

Heavy Bolter Sponsons, in my opinion, while exceedingly cheap, are near useless on either variant. Valkyries want to ride fast, Vendettas want to shoot tanks. Neither works well. Sad part is, even when you get Weapon Destroyed results on your valks, I've had every person I play take the Multi-Rockets off instead of the Multi-laser, since they view it as more dangerous (and rightly so), meaning the Heavy Bolters would almost never be shot.


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## ItsPug (Apr 5, 2009)

Gotta agree with Sqwerlpunk, Multi-laser and pods are the way to go with the Valks. Use the Vendettas for taking out the enemy armour and the Valks for anti-infantry. The Multi-laser and pods will allow you to sweep most infantry from an objective - especially if you have more than one valk making the attack run, and as transports valks can claim the objective if they're carrying a unit of troops.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Sqwerlpunk said:


> Heavy Bolter Sponsons, in my opinion, while exceedingly cheap, are near useless on either variant. Valkyries want to ride fast, Vendettas want to shoot tanks. Neither works well. Sad part is, even when you get Weapon Destroyed results on your valks, I've had every person I play take the Multi-Rockets off instead of the Multi-laser, since they view it as more dangerous (and rightly so), meaning the Heavy Bolters would almost never be shot.


Not only that, but (as I've said in a previous post) both of them can't shoot forward, to the best of my knowledge.
In other words, unless it's a really big unit, you'll only get one of those heavy bolters firing at any given unit, and even then you'll most likely be angles significantly.

Keep in mind though, the two Rocket pods are separate weapons, so can't take off both with one WD result.
Moreover, if you're willing to sacrifice a turn or two of shooting, you could always retreat the WD'd Valkyrie back to the good ol' tech priest for a quick repair.
In fact, I think the Valkyrie and Vendetta give a hell of a lot more use to the old fool.
Before, he pretty much had to follow a few tanks around, now they can come to him!


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

I haven't had time to look at a good picture/model of the valkyrie with the door gunner swung out 100%, but from what I have seen (particularly the GW walkthrough on building the damn things) you're probably right, which makes that even more useless with the way vehicles move in 5th.

Haha, yeah, I know it's only 1 Rocket Pod, even though that was rather ambiguously put by me.

Silly Techpriests...

Too bad he can't repair my Immobilized results >_>

Stupid Squadron rules.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Sqwerlpunk said:


> I haven't had time to look at a good picture/model of the valkyrie with the door gunner swung out 100%, but from what I have seen (particularly the GW walkthrough on building the damn things) you're probably right, which makes that even more useless with the way vehicles move in 5th.
> 
> Haha, yeah, I know it's only 1 Rocket Pod, even though that was rather ambiguously put by me.
> 
> ...


I'm not complaining, it means my Venom Cannon (plural of cannon is cannon) can destroy Leman Russ squads


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Please don't remind me about that >_< haha


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## ItsPug (Apr 5, 2009)

Bit off Topic but hey. Its not the venom cannon(plural) thats got me worried its the necron gauss weapons, at least your venom cannons aren't on your basic troops, who cant do much to a Valk, only the Warriors and TMCs, pretty much everything from the necron codex can destroy even the hardest of tanks, either using gauss or disruption fields.

I can see myself seriously avoiding Necrons from now on, either that or taking vehicles as individual FOC choices.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Sqwerlpunk said:


> Please don't remind me about that >_< haha


Let's face it.
If it weren't for that rule, Tank Squadrons would be totally broken.


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Right, back on topic.

What's the viability of all Valkyrie lists do y'all think? I've been testing them (vassal, again) and found that sometimes they rock, other times they get sorta blown away (Daemons come to mind as a horribly hard to beat opponent, particularly when he has plentiful Bolt of Tzeench).


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## ItsPug (Apr 5, 2009)

If I were going to go all out on Valks i'd prob have 3 squadrons of 3 with multi-laser and rocket pods, transporting 2 veteran squads with meltaguns and or the demolitions doctrine, and a cheap command HQ with meltas, which should come in under 1500.

Use the Valks to kill infantry and the vet squads and HQ to kill vehicles. The only problem I see is that with 12 armour I'll might have a hard time against other IG armies, or similar, that can spam autocannons etc or a Hydra battery. They'll bring down the Valks under sheer weight of fire. 'Course until GW bring out a plastic Hydra I don't think I'll come across 3 of them in an army very often (£120 for 3).

The other problem is a serious lack of manpower. If I take all 9 Valks I'm only going to have around 2 scoring units in a 1500pt battle.

To be honest I think that it'd be better to have a single squadron and still have a good backbone to the rest of the army. The shiny toys are all well and good but the tried and tested 100+ guardsmen is still the best bet IMHO


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## Sqwerlpunk (Mar 1, 2009)

Yeah, I've been playtesting an "Airborne" list a bit, and it's sorta hit and miss depending on your opponents fascination with long range anti-light tank. Has success in some areas however, like beating an Oblit/Lash Prince heavy list if terrain is in your favor (can potentially wipe an Oblit squad out with Vendettas in 1 turn of fire with Instant Death, if terrain is friendly you are hidden from the rest, ect.). Out-flanking Valkyries is hugely useful.

My list.


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