# Nemesis Review|Spoilers*



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Well the latest Horus Heresy novel, titled _Nemesis_, was released two days ago on Black Library and I have finished it only a few minutes ago. The very first novel about the Officio Assassinorum has been a resounding success with an excellent story, with plenty of surprises, including one that made me stop in amazement for a few minutes.

The Assassinorum has been fleshed out very nicely. We have learned more about the secretive Venenum Temple that uses poisons to dispatch their foes, or Clade as they are called pre-heresy and the Vanus Temple of information-gatherers and cybernetic investigators have been added to the roster. And they are quite cool, even if they dont perform assassinations themselves.

The characters of the Assassins are also very cool and likeable. The Vindicare sniper Eristede Kell, the Callidus shade Koyne, the Eversor nihilator 'The Garantine', the Culexes protiphage Iota, the Venenum secluse Jennkier Soalm and the Vanus infocyte Fon Tariel. Each one is recruited in a mission of their own styling and we are shown how each of these Assassins operate, each very differently. And many older characters make their appearances like Erebus, Horus and Rogal Dorn, and one older character in particular will not be returning.

The story begins with another failed attempt on Horus Lupercal's life, foiled by Erebus, Luc Sedirae and Devram Korda before the Venenum Assassin can strike. Knowing that a tactic can be used by anyone Erebus decides to deploy his own Assassin to kill The Emperor, and without the Warmaster's knowledge. Meanwhile on Terra a meeting is hosted by the Master of Assassins and the Sires and Siresses of the Assassin Clades, and a special guest in the form of Constantin Valdor. They decide, with Valdor's advice, that no single Assassin can kill Horus but an entire group has a chance, and so an Execution Force is deployed with one operative from each Clade, in the hopes that they will succeed where others have failed.

Meanwhile a series of gruesome murders has struck the planet Iesta Veracrux where an investigator called Yosef Sabrat is given the case. The victims are mutilated and then displayed in a symbol that nobody can fathom the meaning of, an eight-pointed star. Soon Sabrat is drawn into a game of politics with the off-world Rogue Trader cartel, secretive organizations and cults and the plan of one of the deadliest beings to ever exist.

The pace of the story is very well-written and reflects the careful, methodical style of the Assassins very well. The nature and ethics of their work is brought into question quite a few times, querying whether or not subterfuge and shadow-work is the correct way to win the Horus Heresy.

High Point: 

The high point of this novel is one word for me. Spear. The quite innocuous name of the extraordinary Chaos Assassin. He is the most imaginative character I have ever seen, and he is well-written to boot, even his death was an epic scene. With the ability to literally, and I mean literally, become another person, the ability to reflect psychic energy back ten-fold at his quarry and a warped weapon that is his very body, a shocking backstory and some very awesome one-liners. Spear is one of the most memorable characters in the Horus Heresy series, and it saddens me that he wont be coming back. But he had an excellent run.

'The Emperor protects,' Segan said aloud. 'The Emperor protects.'
Spear opened his spiked jaws. 'He really doesn't,' said the murderer.


Low Point: Ive thought it over and I can't really think of a flaw, at least not any for me.

So for its memorable and imaginative characters, a unique and well thought-out narrative and background on the mysterious Imperial Assassins, and a look at the Horus Heresy away from the front lines and into the shadows of the war, I give _Nemesis_ a 9/10. Thanks for a great novel Jim Swallow, I look forward to your next work.

And for those of you wondering about my line above hinting at a character's death I will not disappoint you with the line, read it and find out.



The Son of Horus Luc Sedirae will not be back. He is killed in the novel by Eristede Kell with a head-shot. His death was not unavenged however, an entire planet burned for it. A bold move by Jim Swallow, Sedirae was not a major player in the Heresy but still, I was not expecting his death. Bet that one was a big discussion at the Heresy meetings.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Interesting, I've decided I'll pick it up when I've caught up with the rest of the HH.

~Bane of Kings


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Nice review _Lord of the Night_. I just finished my copy earlier today, and I won't heap as much praise on it as you did. 

It was a valued addition to the Heresy series, and well written in my opinion. But some people may feel that parts of the book were wasted, for several chapters we could completely forget that we are in the 30k Galaxy as it endures the horrors of the Horus Heresy, instead we find ourselves for large parts of the book on a random backwater planet, following a police officer around trying to solve some murders. Now ultimately it is *partly* relavent, but I feel that a large amount of the book was wasted on the crime scenes of Iesta Veracrux, as well as the rounding up of the Execution Force from their various missions etc.

That being said however, this is the first glimpse we get into the post-Isstvan V Galaxy in the Heresy series, set two years following Isstvan, _Nemesis_ does (if only briefly) give us some insight into the Galactic-Scene, with Horus slowly advancing across the Galaxy gaining momentum and allegiences as he goes, it is nice to see this fearful aspect from a civilian's view. Out in the far reaches of Ultima Segmentum who would you owe your allegience to? A distant Terra and an absent Emperor? Or the present and victorious Horus Lupercal? The decision carrying with it drastic consequences either way. This was something that I feel was not touched enough upon throughout the novel, the civil war on Dagonet and what it represented: the base civilian's outlook on the Heresy, their fears and hopes, and their ultimate purposes and value.

Essentially this is a novel about assassins and assassinations, 


(Neither initiated by the Emperor or Horus personally, each at the end clarifying their view of wanting to face the other personally).

And little else. No real major revelations are revealed, but it is nice to see the storyline pass beyond Isstvan and find out at least some of what was happening during the _Age of Darkness_.

It was well written, and interesting, but it was just lacking something in my mind. Maybe its just because I personally would have rather had a story about the mainline Heresy rather than assassins in the shadows, or a mix of the two would have been nice - as I said this novel is about assassins and little else.

Overall I would give it 6.5-7/10. An interesting and enjoyable read, well written and thought out. But just something missing in my mind, and I feel that parts of the book were wasted. For the first novel that progressed the storyline beyond Isstvan V, we got next-to-no insight into the so-called _Age of Darkness_, nor the galactic goings on - apart from one mission of the Officio Assassinorum and one scheme (of ultimately many during the Heresy) of Erebus'. Maybe I would have enjoyed it more if it was released after the next few novels, when we actually have a decent insight into the _Age of Darkness_, and the difficult choice laid out before every human world. I may have appriciated the desperation of the Emperor's lackeys to assassinate Horus more then, if we had actually found out what was happening around the Galaxy.




On a side note, it is hinted at the end that Erebus is no longer the sole whisperer in the Warmaster's ear and that he is taking advice from elsewhere - and that the citizens of Dagonet were sacrificed as an offering. Maybe this is the set up to see Horus fall from determined rebel to slave of Chaos. Which I felt was a nice touch.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

you've both convinced me to give it a read. hmm, interesting....

CP


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## DarKnightWarlord (Apr 29, 2010)

I agree with what alot of you guys said. I enjoyed the common man's perspective on the Heresy. Swallow's HH books have been very enjoyable but I don't care too much for his BA novels. I wonder why that is? Greatly enjoyed the scenes with Rogal Dorn, Malcador and Valdor.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I'm half way through this at the moment, and one little tidbit took my fancy when the character of IIRC the callidus assassin. They mention her previous kills, including a Brother Captain who's name we don't learn as the speaker is cut off at that point. This raises the point that at least one marine captain and possibly his chapter/company may have gone rogue previous to the Heresy.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

i dare someone to convince me this is gonna be anything but another Battle for the Abyss. from what ive read of the first few chapters its gonna turn into nothing but aload assasins trying to figure out how to get to horus and the same with the one after the emperor. seeing as we know none of these lot succeed in their mission i cant see the point of this book whatsoever. personally im getting abit bored of the flow of these novels as its not getting anywhere fast. im not expecting the siege of terra anytime soon but it seems its always everything but the emperor and primarchs which dominate the novels and im not keen at all.


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## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

Unknown Primarch said:


> i dare someone to convince me this is gonna be anything but another Battle for the Abyss. from what ive read of the first few chapters its gonna turn into nothing but aload assasins trying to figure out how to get to horus and the same with the one after the emperor. seeing as we know none of these lot succeed in their mission i cant see the point of this book whatsoever. personally im getting abit bored of the flow of these novels as its not getting anywhere fast. im not expecting the siege of terra anytime soon but it seems its always everything but the emperor and primarchs which dominate the novels and im not keen at all.


Ive almost finished readint this book and its been anything but dull, even those mentioned first chapters were quite goodon imo. This book is about assassins and how close they will make to their targets and sidestory about policework on planet. Point isnt wether assassins succeed or not, its about how close they will get and who they really are. After Thousand Sons its nice to see novel that is less on bolter&chainsword and more on mystery, stealth, plotting and little away from Astartes. HH affected so many people, that its good to see more normal people point of views. Too early to tell since last 100 pages until finish, but havent found nothing wrong with novel so far. Seems it could very easily made to my TOP5 HH novel list.


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## nestersan (Apr 3, 2010)

I have been reading these HH novel's nonstop, and I find Like the Primarch and their Legions, fully half of the books do nothing to really breathe life into the Heresy. 

I liked Nemesis, but to be honest, take out Horus and the Emp, and that could be a 40K book easily.

It's like they gave us Primarchs and Combat and the core of the Herasy, showing marines who were more than codex quoting killers, they showed them with emotions and motives and then they suddenly wheeled toward the periphery, and we get tales that while well told, do not expand our understanding of the Prime Movers in the Drama.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

yeah im not saying its gonna be a crap book, as none of the heresy books are, but it just seems another space filler instead of having some juicey storyline to it. 
i think if anything they should have brought out a battle for calth novel by now so as to make battle for the abyss worthwhile bringing out. i liked that book but it needed something to make its admission to the series this early in make sense for the masses.
i mean by the time they do do calth people will have forgotten Abyss but wont want to reread it because of the slating it got. abyss should have been number 1 of a calth trilogy like horus rising was.


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

Excellent review, LotN, looking forward to getting the damn book >.<


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Best books of the Horus Heresy series, in order:
1) Fallen Angels
2) Nemsis
3) A Thousand Sons

IMHO, of course. Nemsis had interesting characters and a damn good story. It's the first book by James Swallow I've read, and having finished it I think I'm going to look into other books by him.

On a side note, I think Iota was my favorite character. I got really super pissed at the end of the book because of what happened to her.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I finally finished _Nemesis_ last night, and I think it's definitely one of the better instalments to the series. It was cool to see the inside workings of the assassin temples. And at long last the Emperor gets a speaking role in a series dedicated to his cause. Dorn, Horus, Erebus, Malcador, Valdor _and_ the Emperor? Possibly the most all star cast of the series so far. Swallow has taken a huge jump in my estimation.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

I wasn't too bothered by this book, spear irritated me and if Sawllow used vitae one more time i was going to have to rip his face off.

As a novel, the ending made it for me, thought Swallow captured the sure magnificence of the Emperor and Horus in a very short time, far better than any other writer including Abnett.

I loved the end as well, it made me laugh in surprise at the callousness.

I dont think Swallow could have done it much better if I'm honest. The scenes of investigation needed to introduce the menacing spear, yet he just well pissed me the hell off.

He was too lethal, too strong, whilst the assassins seemed so piss weak compared to him and the astartes.

I dont know I have mixed feelings, dont get me wrong I like it and I dont think Swallow could have done much better,though i felt the assassins characxtors could have been explored a fair bit more. It was good, but didn't stand out as a 9 out of 10


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## Shadow Walker (Jun 10, 2010)

I do not think that assassins were too weak compared to astartes. in my opinion that book very good shows us how really dangerous it is to face the astartes in battle even for members of clades. I prefer Nemesis's interpretation of assassins skills etc. over that seen in Soul Hunter where M'shen was in my opinion too powerfull.


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## Turkeyspit (Jun 11, 2010)

Ooooh ooh..I liked this book. 

I didn't think I would. I mean, I knew that Horus would _not_ die, so it kind of robs the suspense of 'what will happen' when assassins are dispatched. But the varied levels of cool surrounding each assassin made up for that. I thought each character was well developed, and while I didn't expect them all to survive, you never really knew who would die when. 

I really enjoyed the end-end when Dorn showed up to pitch a fit, and The Emperor strolled in and got all philosophical. Cheesy in a way, but still, I enjoyed it k: 

Very fun read.

Now, my only complaint:

Look, we *KNOW* that Horus will not die. They could have included that on the cover, in big bold green letters _"No Warmasters were harmed in the composition of this novel"_.

But still..the way that Luc bought it was just plain PLEGH.

I'm sorry, the best sniper..better yet, a _good_ sniper, would have waited for positive visual confirmation of the target before firing. Yes, I know, the bullet was solely meant to collapse the screen so the microwave laser could do its business. But surely if Kell had waited a few moments for 'Horus' to completely remove his helm, he would have realized that it was not the Warmaster up there.

Surely they knew what he looked like, and surely the idea of a 'proxy' would not be above suspicion to a sniper in his line of work.

Better that it had been written that Kell executed the attack without waiting for 'Horus' to remove the helmet (laser cuts through the helm..) as it would have been more believable.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

im just over half way through this novel now and while its good im really not liking how he has written the assassins. they speak too much like they imperial guard, not highly trained murderous one man armies. even the eversor just becomes abit of a meathead and that tariel guy is just ridiculous, the guy is a master assassin in his field and comes across like a remembrancer. plus i hate how the whole series sort of plays down custodes like they less than a astartes yet ive always thought of them as sort of more powerful than a astartes but a little less than a primarch. i always envisaged valdar being about on par with a primarch as im sure i read somewhere he bested horus sparring at one point.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Turkeyspit said:


> Look, we *KNOW* that Horus will not die. They could have included that on the cover, in big bold green letters _"No Warmasters were harmed in the composition of this novel"_.
> 
> But still..the way that Luc bought it was just plain PLEGH.
> 
> ...


True its obvious that Horus would not die but that doesn't harm the plot in anyway because it makes you wonder what will go wrong, what will happen and who will die instead.

Kell could not have waited because the assassins only had a short window of time before the Astartes detected them, thus they had to act quickly and not waste any chances. Plus all sources show that Horus led from the front, so using a proxy was an unforseen move by the Warmaster, that even the assassins could not have predicted it. Plus Sedirae had been dressed up to resemble Horus, the wolf-cloak and specially painted armour is similar, and the time window did not allow the assassins to note his height or bulk.

And whats wrong with the laser cutting through his helmet?, thats the kind of laser they use to destroy battle tanks. No helmet can stand up to that.



Unknown Primarch said:


> Im just over half way through this novel now and while its good im really not liking how he has written the assassins. they speak too much like they imperial guard, not highly trained murderous one man armies. even the eversor just becomes abit of a meathead and that tariel guy is just ridiculous, the guy is a master assassin in his field and comes across like a remembrancer. plus i hate how the whole series sort of plays down custodes like they less than a astartes yet ive always thought of them as sort of more powerful than a astartes but a little less than a primarch. i always envisaged valdar being about on par with a primarch as im sure i read somewhere he bested horus sparring at one point.


You've got to remember that this is 30k, the Assassins are not the ritualistic and secretive assassins we know from 40k. Right now they are granted more liberties and more freedoms to live as normal a life as some of them can. And Fon Tariel is not a combat assassin, he is a data assassin. The Vanus clade/temple does not fight, they gather information on targets for the other clades/temples. That is why they are looked down on.

And Custodes while powerful are nowhere near a Primarch in any way at all. Custodes are superior to Space Marines but are far harder to make. At least three in every hundred people can become a Space Marine, as for Custodes the exact numbers aren't specified but I wouldn't be surprised if only one out of every million could become one of them. And when has the series played them down?, its always reinforced their strength and superiority.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Lord of the Night said:


> And Custodes while powerful are nowhere near a Primarch in any way at all. Custodes are superior to Space Marines but are far harder to make. At least three in every hundred people can become a Space Marine, as for Custodes the exact numbers aren't specified but I wouldn't be surprised if only one out of every million could become one of them. And when has the series played them down?, its always reinforced their strength and superiority.


It's reinforced the fact that their superiority over Astartes is so miniscule as to be hard to judge in all but the most extreme of cases.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

In _Horus Heresy Collected Visions_ it notes that a force of three hundred Custodes and The Emperor were able to slay 10,000 Orks and a Gargant, only suffering three casualties. It would take at least 6 to 8 thousand Space Marines to pull that feat off.

Plus the Custodians play the Blood Games, which take years to play even a single one. That takes skill and patience beyond anything a Space Marine has. In _A Thousand Sons_ the Custodians were only bested by the psychic might of the Thousand Sons and their Daemonic allies, and they still reaped a fair tally amongst the Sons of Magnus.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

As I have already stated I really enjoyed this book, but considering some of the comments, there were a few things that annoyed me. 

Firstly, the Eversor. These lads are basically unguided WMDs, kept in cryogenic storage between missions because they are simply too dangerous. Yet they manage to reason with him, and keep him relatively calm. Secondly, his fighting skills were down played to an unbelievable level. He should have kicked the marine's ass and then gone looking for his mates.

As to the Custodes, they are without doubt far superiour to marines, possibly being to marines what marines are to mortal men. They are the product of an extensive breeding program and genetic modification that was simply too time consuming to produce warriors in the scale needed for the Great Crusade. This led to the creation of SMs. So, Custodes are grown, were marines are simply made.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

The Eversor are, as you say unguided WMDs, because of all the drugs that their suits fill them with. Frenzon, psychon and other dangerous chemicals that make them unreasonable and psychotic, without them The Garantine was able to remain in a conscious and somewhat reasonable state, if only briefly.

As for his skills... yeah ill admit he probably should have killed those marines but this is 30k and I would assume that he did not have his poison needler. In _Iron Warrior_ the Eversor assassin that kills eight Iron Warriors in an instant used a poison needler and a monomolecular blade. The Garantine did not have those, so I think his skills were a bit underplayed but that can be explained by lack of heavy equipment.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Lord of the Night said:


> In _Horus Heresy Collected Visions_ it notes that a force of three hundred Custodes and The Emperor were able to slay 10,000 Orks and a Gargant, only suffering three casualties. It would take at least 6 to 8 thousand Space Marines to pull that feat off.
> 
> Plus the Custodians play the Blood Games, which take years to play even a single one. That takes skill and patience beyond anything a Space Marine has. In _A Thousand Sons_ the Custodians were only bested by the psychic might of the Thousand Sons and their Daemonic allies, and they still reaped a fair tally amongst the Sons of Magnus.


First- it was at the head of 1,000 Custodians according to _Horus Heresy: Collected Visions_, and it wasn't like it was them alone- the entirety of the Luna Wolves, Imperial Fists, and Death Guard were with them. Together with the 3 Legions the Emperor and his Custodians killed 100,000 Orks in moments. The fact it was such a shock assault that decapitated the Waaagh!'s leader probably accounts for the loss of so few Custodians.

If you're going to reference _Blood Games_ you should include the note it makes that Custodes are superior to Astartes but it's by such a miniscule amount that no one would bet on a fight between a Custodian and Space Marine. 
The Custodians were only beaten back by the Thousand Sons psychic might and their damonic allies? The same applies for the Space Wolves...



Khorne's Fist said:


> As to the Custodes, they are without doubt far superiour to marines, possibly being to marines what marines are to mortal men. They are the product of an extensive breeding program and genetic modification that was simply too time consuming to produce warriors in the scale needed for the Great Crusade. This led to the creation of SMs. So, Custodes are grown, were marines are simply made.


The Custodians are powerful without a doubt, but they're not that far above a Marine- only in the most extreme cases would the differences even be noticeable.

The argument that they're to Space Marines what Space Marines are to mortal men is presented as a commonly held rumour not fact.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> You don't know how patient an Astartes can be, you're justing projecting your own bias on them.
> The Custodians were only beaten back by the Thousand Sons psychic might and their damonic allies? The same applies for the Space Wolves...
> 
> [Seriously if you're going to include references to back up your argument either ensure it's such an obscure source that none of your readers can find it to dispute what you say, or at least re-read the reference material so you're accurate when you use it]


tbh, i feel this is an argument not worth having here. And would like to see all parties involved start a new thread and debate it there. in 40k Fluff, where it belongs. This thread is about the BL book Nemesis and it's review by Lord of the Night. If you wish to debate the differing characteristics of Custodians versus standard SM's, do so in a different thread. I'm not willing to compromise nor argue about this. My word stands. If it isn't heeded, i will start to get angry.

CP


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Really enjoyed the book.

The whole premise that they failed to kill Horus through misidentification is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous. Shockingly poor plot line. Are you trying to convince me that the most elite sniper (a Vindicare assassin) in the entire imperium, trained from childhood to be the most perfect shooter (and the best of the Vindicare available) actually took a shot without bothering to check his target?

Stupid plot line.

PS: Agreed that the eversor should have been way more powerful.

Good read, though.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

He took the shot because by all rights Horus should have been the one there. Horus always led from the front, he always paraded before conquered people to blaspheme the Emperor and aggrandize himself. Luc Sedirae taking his place was a factor nobody could have anticipated, after all Horus is a Primarch, so far removed from humanity. He does not think like regular men do.

Plus there was a very small time window in which to take the shot because of all the Astartes patrols moving about. And since the Assassins were split up there was a chance any of them could be discovered, and then game over. And if it were Horus, who has been enhanced by the Ruinous Powers, whose to say he wouldn't have sensed or seen the assassins with his heighted abilities, giving him time to do that would have ruined the mission. Plus the Sons of Horus had painstakingly made Sedirae look like Horus, with blackened armour, extra ornamentation and the wolf-skin cloak that Horus always wore. And from such a distance gauging height and bulk in the short time window available would have been impossible, even for a trained assassin.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> It's reinforced the fact that their superiority over Astartes is so miniscule as to be hard to judge in all but the most extreme of cases.


agreed baron, i think so far in the novels what your saying is spot on. but for me why didnt the emperor just have a load of marines as his body guard if they not much better than a marine. something along the lines of the elite of the elite of all the legions gets the promotion to custodes thats what i would have thought would be better. so that gets me back to thinking they are totally better than marines and i always thought they were created by a different method than a marine and only the emperor knows how to make them thats why they not in abundance, especially in 40k.



Commissar Ploss said:


> tbh, i feel this is an argument not worth having here. And would like to see all parties involved start a new thread and debate it there. in 40k Fluff, where it belongs. This thread is about the BL book Nemesis and it's review by Lord of the Night. If you wish to debate the differing characteristics of Custodians versus standard SM's, do so in a different thread. I'm not willing to compromise nor argue about this. My word stands. If it isn't heeded, i will start to get angry.
> 
> CP


For some reason, I felt the need to doublepost so that I could try and troll a member of the staff. Aren't I smart?

There we go, fixed the doublepost and got rid of the public stupidity for you. - darkreever

no double posts there mate, just some straight up talk about people just like you. you get certain roles on sites but cant handle people in the correct manner but then when normal members confront you, you come with all the usual bullshit. same shit, different site. loser!



Lord of the Night said:


> He took the shot because by all rights Horus should have been the one there. Horus always led from the front, he always paraded before conquered people to blaspheme the Emperor and aggrandize himself. Luc Sedirae taking his place was a factor nobody could have anticipated, after all Horus is a Primarch, so far removed from humanity. He does not think like regular men do.
> 
> Plus there was a very small time window in which to take the shot because of all the Astartes patrols moving about. And since the Assassins were split up there was a chance any of them could be discovered, and then game over. And if it were Horus, who has been enhanced by the Ruinous Powers, whose to say he wouldn't have sensed or seen the assassins with his heighted abilities, giving him time to do that would have ruined the mission. Plus the Sons of Horus had painstakingly made Sedirae look like Horus, with blackened armour, extra ornamentation and the wolf-skin cloak that Horus always wore. And from such a distance gauging height and bulk in the short time window available would have been impossible, even for a trained assassin.


no chance mate, the best assassin they had, made a schoolboy error of not getting a positive i.d. on the warmaster and in doing so shows there is a assassin afoot hence revealing their presence which you say would have happened anyway if they didnt take the shot. no way, they would more likely get away with it waiting to get a i.d. and once they got i.d. of target could have acted up on it. a master assassin would have got to a position where they were totally concealed and out of sight but insight of the target. 
now if it had gone down like he looked the exact likeness of horus and the assassins killed luc thinking he was the warmaster, got back to terra and then horus is on broadcasts after the fact but then the emperor finds out what they been upto and forbids any more attempts. that would have been the best ending and one that made more sense.

Hey look at that, almost had to fix a triple-post - darkreever


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

And then here you come with yet another double-post for me to merge for you; how nice.k:


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

gives you something worthwhile to do then instead of wasting your time looking for minor things to be picky about. oh heres a quadruple post for you to merge now.


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

I have no idea why people will spend time arguing about relative power of Astartes VS Custodes - IMO you look at it the wrong way as soon as you begin to do that.

It should not be viewed with an eye that sees that "one is more powerful than the other", it should be viewed with the eye that sees that, rather than them being the same but one being superior, instead that they are totally different.

i.e., One has been made to be the finest genetically enhanced battelfield warrior, serving as part of a larger force. The other has been made with the purpose of being the finest protector/personal bodyguard/guardian, to work in solitude or as part of a structured defense.

Hence why it is said that it would be literally foolish to compare a Space Marine to a Custodes, in the books. Foolish. They are not for the same purpose, and thus require no comparison, but, if one were to put them one-on-one in battle, it is thought that a Custodian may come out on top simply due to their make-up being suited to individualistic combat. A custodian is a unit in itself - a space marine is no such thing, no matter how skilled they are. A space marine is part of an army - a custodian is an individual.


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## Turkeyspit (Jun 11, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> True its obvious that Horus would not die but that doesn't harm the plot in anyway because it makes you wonder what will go wrong, what will happen and who will die instead.
> 
> Kell could not have waited because the assassins only had a short window of time before the Astartes detected them, thus they had to act quickly and not waste any chances. Plus all sources show that Horus led from the front, so using a proxy was an unforseen move by the Warmaster, that even the assassins could not have predicted it. Plus Sedirae had been dressed up to resemble Horus, the wolf-cloak and specially painted armour is similar, and the time window did not allow the assassins to note his height or bulk.
> 
> And whats wrong with the laser cutting through his helmet?, thats the kind of laser they use to destroy battle tanks. No helmet can stand up to that...


er...sorry, can't agree there. We are talking about fractions of a second..maybe 1 second delay. Sedirae was in the process of removing his helmet; as soon as his neck was exposed, Kell fired the round that would collapse the screen, which also triggered the laser beam that beheaded 'Horus'. Had Kell waited that extra second, he would have seen Sedirae's face instead of Horus', and realized the switch.

Again, I realize it was a plot device...but it was not a believable one. Kell was built up to be a super-special-awesome sniper, an unstoppable assassin, blah blah. The way they engineered the assassination (bullet + laser) was awesome. So why muck it up by having him pull a total rookie mistake? If Sedirae had made no effort to remove his helmet, and the plann all along was to just cut off his head with the laser, then it would have been fine.

And I'm not sure what you mean by a problem with a laser cutting through the helm? I don't have a problem with that idea - that is what I would have preferred to have happened, since it wouldn't have come across as Kell having screwed up (in a very amateurish way).

Incidentally, the notion of Horus using a proxy is totally believable. He DID in fact use one, no? There have already been several assassination attempts made, and he is landing in 'hostile' territory.

Kell should have seen this coming.


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

Baltar said:


> I have no idea why people will spend time arguing about relative power of Astartes VS Custodes - IMO you look at it the wrong way as soon as you begin to do that.
> 
> It should not be viewed with an eye that sees that "one is more powerful than the other", it should be viewed with the eye that sees that, rather than them being the same but one being superior, instead that they are totally different.
> 
> ...


i believe i requested that this debate be moved elsewhere. no?...

CP


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Lord of the Night said:


> As for his skills... yeah ill admit he probably should have killed those marines but this is 30k and I would assume that he did not have his poison needler. In _Iron Warrior_ the Eversor assassin that kills eight Iron Warriors in an instant used a poison needler and a monomolecular blade. The Garantine did not have those, so I think his skills were a bit underplayed but that can be explained by lack of heavy equipment.


He did have a needler, it was built into his bolt pistol. And a power sword or equivalent IIRC.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Turkeyspit said:


> er...sorry, can't agree there. We are talking about fractions of a second..maybe 1 second delay. Sedirae was in the process of removing his helmet; as soon as his neck was exposed, Kell fired the round that would collapse the screen, which also triggered the laser beam that beheaded 'Horus'. Had Kell waited that extra second, he would have seen Sedirae's face instead of Horus', and realized the switch.


Another interesting point; would Kell have even been able to tell the difference between Sedirae and Horus (as in their facial features)?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Good point CotE, after all Kell was a mortal and to most mortals Space Marines look like awe-inspiring angels rather then unique people. Plus he had never seen Horus before, so maybe he wouldn't have recognized Sedirae either through lack of knowledge of Horus or just fear and awe from Sedirae himself.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Another thing that annoyed me about _Nemesis_ was its inaccuracy in regards to the Emperor. _Nemesis_ is set roughly two years after _A Thousand Sons_, where Magnus delivered his warning to Terra via the Webway which irrevertibly damaged the Golden Throne thus forcing the Emperor to constantly use his powers augmented by the Golden Throne to keep the Imperial Webway sealed. 

Yet in _Nemesis_, hes wandering around the Imperial Palace spying on secret assassin meetings... When asked several times about this James Swallow gave a cop-out answer of saying that somehow the Emperor was able to temporarily seal the webway gate and then bugger off, but then following the events in _Nemesis_ at some point he was needed back on the Golden Throne permanently...


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Well the Emperor in his corpse state can sustain the Golden Throne but in _Nemesis_ he was still alive. Perhaps he could create a power surge that would keep the Golden Throne running without his presence for a short time, allowing him to deal with matters of the Heresy.


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## Turkeyspit (Jun 11, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Another interesting point; would Kell have even been able to tell the difference between Sedirae and Horus (as in their facial features)?


I don't see why not. It is unrealistic to expect the average imperial citizen to be able to recognize Horus on sight; "they all look the same" would be a believable statement coming from an ordinary human. This is why (I think) Sedirae was willing to remove his helmet while posing as the Warmaster: he figured the average Imperial Joe there wouldn't recognize him as _not_ being Horus.

But we are talking about the Officio Assassinorum here, not just an ordinary sniper/soldier. They are certainly not lacking in resources, and it isn't as if the visage of Horus would be a mystery amongst the upper echelons of Terra. The Master of Assassins was essentially the Emperor's 'right-hand man'. He would easily have had access to images of the Warmaster, to hand out to the assassins.



As to how far away Kell was from his target, if he was close enough to see the act of Luc removing his helmet and exposing his neck, then he was close enough to see Sedirae's face.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Yet in _Nemesis_, hes wandering around the Imperial Palace spying on secret assassin meetings... When asked several times about this James Swallow gave a cop-out answer of saying that somehow the Emperor was able to temporarily seal the webway gate and then bugger off, but then following the events in _Nemesis_ at some point he was needed back on the Golden Throne permanently...


Perhaps this might have been because even though there was a breach, the chaos gods knew it could not be 'sealed' anytime soon and that the best time to use it would be when the traitors arrived at Terra? After all, your forces are much more stretched fighting on two fronts as opposed to one.

Perhaps they simply held off until the best possible time. And as Lord of the Night said, maybe in his fully powered, fully healed state he was able to seal the breach while there was little trying to get through it while not being on the golden throne.


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## Turkeyspit (Jun 11, 2010)

darkreever said:


> Perhaps they simply held off until the best possible time. And as Lord of the Night said, maybe in his fully powered, fully healed state he was able to seal the breach while there was little trying to get through it while not being on the golden throne.


Well correct me if I'm wrong, but when the Emperor heads off to fight Horus, doesn't he need Malcador to take his place on the throne? That is of course about 5 years after the events of _Nemesis_, so maybe something has happened in the interim.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Another thing that annoyed me about _Nemesis_ was its inaccuracy in regards to the Emperor. _Nemesis_ is set roughly two years after _A Thousand Sons_, where Magnus delivered his warning to Terra via the Webway which irrevertibly damaged the Golden Throne thus forcing the Emperor to constantly use his powers augmented by the Golden Throne to keep the Imperial Webway sealed.
> 
> Yet in _Nemesis_, hes wandering around the Imperial Palace spying on secret assassin meetings... When asked several times about this James Swallow gave a cop-out answer of saying that somehow the Emperor was able to temporarily seal the webway gate and then bugger off, but then following the events in _Nemesis_ at some point he was needed back on the Golden Throne permanently...


Of course this could have been at the time that the Sisters of Silence and Custodian Guard were fighting in the Webway (The Secret War) before the Emperor was forced onto the Golden Throne, when there was still a miniscule hope that the Mechanicus and Imperial Workers could seal the breach.


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## Turkeyspit (Jun 11, 2010)

Baron Spikey said:


> Of course this could have been at the time that the Sisters of Silence and Custodian Guard were fighting in the Webway (The Secret War)


If it's supposed to be a Secret War, how do you know about it? You have a rosette stashed away somewhere? :training:


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Ho ho ho :lazy2:

It's called the Secret War because no one outside of Terra (and even most of those on Terra) knew about it, it's detailed in _Horus Heresy: collected Visions_.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> Well the Emperor in his corpse state can sustain the Golden Throne but in _Nemesis_ he was still alive. Perhaps he could create a power surge that would keep the Golden Throne running without his presence for a short time, allowing him to deal with matters of the Heresy.





darkreever said:


> Perhaps they simply held off until the best possible time. And as Lord of the Night said, maybe in his fully powered, fully healed state he was able to seal the breach while there was little trying to get through it while not being on the golden throne.


"The warpgate I have constructed and the short section of passage beyond require constant maintenance lest they fall into ruin. At first this demanded only a small portion of my psychic might - and so I was able to command my armies and do all that was expected of me as Emperor... Now this warpgate requires virtually all of my power and concentration lest it rips open a permanent doorway between our world and the warp!" - _The Collected Visions_, Page 324.

"The gate would remain closed to the daemons for as long as the Emperor was able to power it from his throne atop the golden portal. Only the mightiest of psykers had power enough to do this and even then most would be exhausted and fail in a short time. Only the Emperor had the might to keep the gate closed permanently and for him the effort got harder as the daemonic forces gathered about him. For as long as the daemon horde threatened to breach the portal, the Golden Throne would be his prison." - _The Collected Visions_, Page 351.

And then of course the Emperor remains on the Golden Throne (as he has to, note the second quote above) until he summons Dorn, Malcador and Sanguinius to the Imperial Dungeon at the height of the Siege of Terra. So it either looks like Swallow made a mistake, or the background has somehow changed from the _Collected Visions_ without justification.



Baron Spikey said:


> Of course this could have been at the time that the Sisters of Silence and Custodian Guard were fighting in the Webway (The Secret War) before the Emperor was forced onto the Golden Throne, when there was still a miniscule hope that the Mechanicus and Imperial Workers could seal the breach.


Umm.. During the Secret War the Emperor was still forced to sit on the Golden Throne to protect his Custodes and Sisters of Silence.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

not a bad review. i just my own Nemesis review up on DSM. i was going to put Spear as my high point, but the bit where Kell shoots Sedirae was just epic. small but epic.

the book would have been a 7.5 from me, but Spear's character JUST bumped it up to an 8. itd be a 7.75 for me if i rated liked that. EDIT: in fact after a good hard think, the books a 7.5, not an 8. changed the review on DSM to suit.

its funny, i choose not to read other reviews till ive read the book myself. Just my thing.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> Of course this could have been at the time that the Sisters of Silence and Custodian Guard were fighting in the Webway (The Secret War) before the Emperor was forced onto the Golden Throne, when there was still a miniscule hope that the Mechanicus and Imperial Workers could seal the breach.


thats quite possible as its stated that the emperor had to enter the webway section and beat the daemons back because the sisters and custodes were starting to lose. maybe it was a case of the daemons that wehere attacking had to be used somewhere else so there was a respite which the emp used to seal then its quite possible the chaos gods where the ones that had to attack and thats why the emperor got stuck on the thorne.

but i agree that there is alot of cope outs in nemesis. the main one that gets me is that tthe assassin lords where moaning about losing all those members of the execution squad for one primarch yet after this they sent one poxy assassin after curze. doesnt make sense to me and i didnt like the actual story of nemesis. spear running riot on terra and custodes chasing him bloodgames style and spear getting within range of emperor then valdor ending him after a great battle or even the emperor ending him hand-to-hand combat style. 
for me nemesis is probably the least favourite of all HH novels so far.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Unknown Primarch said:


> but i agree that there is alot of cope outs in nemesis. the main one that gets me is that tthe assassin lords where moaning about losing all those members of the execution squad for one primarch yet after this they sent one poxy assassin after curze.


Didn't they send close to a dozen or so assassins to kill Night Haunter, and M'shen was the only one to get that close or succeed?


Edit: Yep, after the events of the Heresy and Scouring fully half the remaining Callidus assassins were sent to kill him.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Unknown Primarch said:


> thats quite possible as its stated that the emperor had to enter the webway section and beat the daemons back because the sisters and custodes were starting to lose. maybe it was a case of the daemons that wehere attacking had to be used somewhere else so there was a respite which the emp used to seal then its quite possible the chaos gods where the ones that had to attack and thats why the emperor got stuck on the thorne.
> 
> but i agree that there is alot of cope outs in nemesis. the main one that gets me is that tthe assassin lords where moaning about losing all those members of the execution squad for one primarch yet after this they sent one poxy assassin after curze. doesnt make sense to me and i didnt like the actual story of nemesis. spear running riot on terra and custodes chasing him bloodgames style and spear getting within range of emperor then valdor ending him after a great battle or even the emperor ending him hand-to-hand combat style.
> for me nemesis is probably the least favourite of all HH novels so far.


Nemesis is leaps and bounds above _Battle for the Abyss_ or _Decent of Angels_. I really enjoyed Iota's character. And Spear.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

For a 'filler' HH novel I thought this was great addition to the series. Jim Swallow on form as usual.

We knew that the story was not going to have any great impact on the HH story arc, but nonetheless it gave us insight into the Emperor and his advisors, the assassin clades, Horus post Davin and his advisors and Imperial worlds post-Istvaan (including the Imperial Cult).

The novel had the right pace even if slightly predictable in places.

I would have preferred less direct focus on Spear. I don't think he was mysterious enough, but he filled the role of 'uber baddie' well.

I would have liked to see some supernatural business surrounding the Imperial Cult, but you can't have everything!

A final chapter that winds down the story was nice. I hate novels that finish abruptly after some big fight and additionally that final chapter gave a lot in terms of information and questions.

Is there a spy in the Imperial palace? 
Who is Horus taking advice from?
Why is Horus taking unnecessary stops on his way to Terra?

I would really like there to be more opportunities for us to get into the heads of the traitor primarchs. I would like to know what Lorgar and Horus, in particular, have planned after the Emperor is taken down.

Edit: And thanks for the review LotN - I dared not read it until after I had finished the book myself


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## jasonbob (Sep 6, 2010)

Is it possible that Dorn was the person who tipped Horus off. He was monitoring the assassins and he opposed what they were trying to do.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

my money is on valdor being the traitor. i think there was a line from in a thousand sons with magnus saying valdor had some suspisious motives for helping the sacking of prospero to take fruit in the manner it did. hell maybe he is even playing them all against each other with ideas of taking over the imperium for himself. (wild theory, most likely far off reality) hopefully the intrigue that age of darkness is advertising come with some real juicey revelations on par with say mechanicum and legion.


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## donskar (Apr 8, 2010)

Just finished _Nemesis _(before I read any posts in this thread). Lord of the Night did a very good job, but I'd like to add a bit from my somewhat different perspective. (I will not pick any nits here. Some of you have honed that skill far beyond what I could ever achieve! :grin

First, I've read all the Heresy novels and 20-30 40K novels as well, and _Nemesis _is one of the best ever from BL (IMHO). Please do note, I review books based on what the author wrote – not what I wish he had written or what I would have written. I believe Swallow did an excellent job. 

_Nemesis _DOES add an important element to the Heresy saga – the effect the revolution has on ordinary humans. In the other books, humans and their planets are pawns (or don't appear at all). In Nemesis, we see real people, quite well developed, who we can actually care about. For me, that is a key positive. After all, the Empire is made up of humans. In fact, I don't recall anyone mentioning that there is actual human tension and interaction within the assassin team – Kell and Jenniker Soalm are siblings who have a very interesting past. That interaction enriched the novel. We also see the human effects of the Heresy in other characters: Sabrat, his wife, and Sabrat's colleague, for example. This “human element” is what sets this novel apart for me. Swallow writes well -- dialogue, pacing, plot are all professional if not sterling. His creativity is definitely A+. He adds several threads to the Heresy tapestry. And he injects an important element – humans – many of whom are not even enhanced!

LotN has covered the overview quite well, so I'll just pick out a few points of special interest:

Spear – one of the greatest, most original, most gruesome horror/creature/killing machines ever. More important, he fully illuminates the depths of Erebus' evil. Let's remember that Spear was created by Erebus after Spear was taken by force off a Black Ship. Spear is literally a mix of human and daemon. A villain you love to hate and hate to see die. A+ for Swallow's imagination. (Wouldn't you love to have seen Spear take on a space marine or two?)

The assassins – yes, they are really no match for Spear. So? He is an abomination created by and for pure evil. They, on the other hand, are (to a large extent) humans. Their frailties, even their abject fear (see Fon Tariel) make them more believable and more sympathetic. But they still are able to overcome Spear (but only with help from a mere, unenhanced human).

Yosef Sabrat – am I the only one who sees him as one of the most interesting characters EVER? After all, he is the key to Spear's death – *well after Spear had killed him*. Remember, without _Sabrat's refusal to fully die _(another excellent touch!) Kell would not have been able to kill Spear.

I guess a score is expected? 9 out of 10. 
High points: brilliant creativity in characterization; human characters; a totally different perspective on the Heresy; the Emperor appears and speaks! 
Low points: those who expected the usual bloodbath might be disappointed; it ended too soon.

Sorry for any typoes or inelegant expressions -- got to keep my eyes open for the boss and type as fast as possible!


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## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

I agree fully with Donskar. This novel was important and how HH affected on normal citizens lives all over Imperium. Assassins were portrayed really well, but it was Yosef along with Spear that really stole this show. We also got one real rarity in BL books and that is someone is actually married. Usually every man lives their lives single and this was nice small touch from author. 

Yosef was really interesting character, not a hero but normal citizen who got involved in HH. Him along with Grammaticus from Legion novel remain one of most memorable men to appear on these novels.


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## Turkeyspit (Jun 11, 2010)

donskar said:


> _Nemesis _DOES add an important element to the Heresy saga – the effect the revolution has on ordinary humans. In the other books, humans and their planets are pawns (or don't appear at all). In Nemesis, we see real people, quite well developed, who we can actually care about. For me, that is a key positive. After all, the Empire is made up of humans. In fact, I don't recall anyone mentioning that there is actual human tension and interaction within the assassin team – Kell and Jenniker Soalm are siblings who have a very interesting past. That interaction enriched the novel.


That is a very true. As the Traitor Legions joined sides with Horus for one reason or another, the IG units attached to the expedition fleets simply followed orders, and did as their Astartes Overlords commanded. 

The individual Imperial worlds were then caught between 'the rock and the hard place'. They were afraid to rebel against the Emperor for fear of retribution by the Adeptus Astartes / Inquisition, but then they were also afraid _not_ to rebel for fear of what Horus would do to them.

To be fair, the subplot between Kell and Jenniker was (in my opinion) very weak, and fairly unnecessary to the plot. I don't mind something that nags an anti-hero character to be more human, but meh.


DYNAMIC ENTRY..er..EDIT!



jasonbob said:


> Is it possible that Dorn was the person who tipped Horus off. He was monitoring the assassins and he opposed what they were trying to do.


I think it is fair to say that the disgust that Dorn feels toward a beloved brother turning traitor against his father *FAR* outweighs his disdain of the use of secrecy / assassins.


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## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

I disliked the book. I thought it had little impact on the heresy in the grand scheme of things.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> I disliked the book. I thought it had little impact on the heresy in the grand scheme of things.


I could not agree more, and, if I am to be honest, not only did I loathe Swallow's depiction of the Astartes of the Sons of Horus Legion, Abnett, McNeil and even Counter had so gloriously constructed, but the fact that... really... if I am brutal, I do not care about human protagonists during the Heresy, I want Astartes-esque/scale carnage, not the Age of Apostasy...:grin:

Such said, I truly believe _The First Heretic _will regenerate my faith in this series.


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## Serrated Man (Mar 3, 2010)

I really liked this book. 9/10

Eversor and Culexus assassins are FUCKING AWESOME!


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## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

Personally I think it is a good book but one of the weaker one of the series. The review makes excellent points as to why it's worth the read and I do encourage people to read it but to me it just didn't stand out like to me like Fulgrim or 1K Sons.


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