# Abbadon The Despoiler or Daemonprince



## Bobgenrut (Feb 5, 2008)

Hey I'm going into Games Workshop tommorow and am thinking about getting 
Abbadon The Despoiler for my black legion army, but from what I've herd Lords are... CRAP. 

Is Abbadon an exception or is a DP still more worthy.


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## newsun (Oct 6, 2008)

Generally what I have read, the DP is the way to go with CSM


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

DP.
Mold wings on. Done.

Abaddon scares people, that's about it.


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

Abaddon is good and from my experience can definetly pull his own weight. But a DP is cheaper and offers far more tactics to be played with such as lash of submission and even just being a flying pain in the bum. Overall a DP is better but abaddon is not bad.

But always give them wings.


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## Bobgenrut (Feb 5, 2008)

Does a DP come with wings or you gotta make?


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

make em or buy a set from forgeworld or nick em from a blood thirster or lord o change.


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## Black Crusader (Mar 17, 2008)

Both are beast in CC. Regular lords are a liability because they can be insta-killed, Abaddon can't. He is however around 75-80 pionts more than a tooled out DP. Both tear through squads and a can make short work of tanks. Both are great choices. You might however find some trouble trying to fit Abaddon in a low points game. Then you need to consider what you're paying for them. $35 DP or $20 Abaddon. I'd say get the DP and use a regular termi lord as Abaddon if you've got one.


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## Ferik (Nov 5, 2008)

World Eater XII said:


> make em or buy a set from forgeworld or nich em from a blood thirster or lord o change.


You can also order Fantasy Dragon wings from GW as well.


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## Bobgenrut (Feb 5, 2008)

Hmm I'll order the wings my bro is getting some tomorrow as well so i will too.

If I get Abbadon I have got a normal Chaos Terminator Lord to use, and may end up getting a DP im just talking about for tomorrow.


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

It really depends on the style of play you are going for. Personal favorite way to use Abby is to stuff him in a Land Raider with 4 termie aspiring champions (4 pairs of lightning claws, Mark of Slaanesh for the init bonus), then hunt other terminators, stern/vanguard, HQ's, back-field broadside battlesuits...


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Daemons Princes are widely regarded as the best HQ choices for Chaos Space Marine armies, so always get one of them first. Wings are pretty much mandatory as they're very cheap and extremely effective.

Abaddon isn't a bad HQ choice by any means, though. It can be difficult to get the most out of him since he's not terribly mobile, but anything he does hit is usually reduced to a bloody paste. He needs to be used carefully to get the most out of him.


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## Count Bathoria (Dec 8, 2008)

honestly, abaddon is not the only specail character worth looking at, Kharn, Lucious, and Typhus are all worth looking at as they tend to more then pull their weight if used right. 

a deamon prince these days tends to require a little less thought, especailly with wings and lash. my only issue with a prince vs. abaddon is that a prince is an MC and abaddon is easily hidden in a squad. i HATE it when you make that one mistake with your prince and he doesn't quite make it to cover, then poof one round of lascannon fire and he's molten slag. being big has advantages but disadvantages also.


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## gawbo005 (Jul 19, 2008)

The Lords and characters have one HUGE strength over the princes. They have a higher survivability due to their ability to join other squads. The princes have to have half of the model in cover to get any cover save and that about the best they get. It would take a massive amount of firepower to take down abbadon or typhus hidden in a squad of berzerkers and with his strength you could loose half the squad of zerkers and still have huge strength to wipe out any squad. 

I think that a chaos lord is a much better unit BUT the VERY nice thing about princes is it is a cheap MC unit that can get wings and lash.


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## newsun (Oct 6, 2008)

Only if they have eternal warrior, otherwise a nicely placed fist hit and they are toast. DP does not worry about this, though bolter spam is an issue, it will draw a whole unit at least for only the DP while the cc way of dealing with a sorc is gonna kill others as well.


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## Deity of Khorne (Dec 13, 2008)

Hey if your dead set on lash of subbmision check out luicious the eternal maybe, or look into my personal favorite chaos HQ... Kharn the betrayer just because hes so tight


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## dopey82 (Jul 8, 2008)

you really should consider karn the betrayer he kicks all forms of ass. put him in a landraider with a few bezerkers and bam instant kill all squad.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Count Bathoria said:


> honestly, abaddon is not the only specail character worth looking at, Kharn, Lucious, and Typhus are all worth looking at as they tend to more then pull their weight if used right.
> 
> a deamon prince these days tends to require a little less thought, especailly with wings and lash. my only issue with a prince vs. abaddon is that a prince is an MC and abaddon is easily hidden in a squad. i HATE it when you make that one mistake with your prince and he doesn't quite make it to cover, then poof one round of lascannon fire and he's molten slag. being big has advantages but disadvantages also.


Lucious generally can't pull his own weight due to "lascannon to face" same issue with typhus(Although he's good for the force weapon.)
Kharn is nice for the sole reaosn he flips tanks real nice while mincing marines. And while abaddon is easily hidden in a squad, he's just as killable as the dp, while costing twice as much. If your prince is being targetted by EVERY lascannon, he's doing his job. It'll take quite a few lascannons to take him down unless your opponent is not only an ace shot, but you fail cover/invul saves constantly.




gawbo005 said:


> The Lords and characters have one HUGE strength over the princes.


The models are cheaper?



gawbo005 said:


> They have a higher survivability due to their ability to join other squads.


But once they're in combat(Where they supposedly excel) the ablative unit is of no help at all. You're one power fist away from utter obliteration. Plus if they join a squad, you're pulling fire into your all important troops(Because god knows if it isn't terminators he's trucking along with it won't help him from any other part of the force organization chart)



gawbo005 said:


> The princes have to have half of the model in cover to get any cover save and that about the best they get. It would take a massive amount of firepower to take down abbadon


Abaddon is not as survivable as two daemon princes(Which is what he costs.) Squad or not.
Also they can ignore the bad boy considering he's slow as mud. Also, something to consider, if he's with a terminator squad and they break, if he hasn't joined combat yet, he'll be sweeping advanced.



gawbo005 said:


> or typhus hidden in a squad of berzerkers and with his strength you could loose half the squad of zerkers and still have huge strength to wipe out any squad.


POWERFISTED! And he's outta there. Also he can't sweeping advance. Typhus is really good because of high toughness, which he'd never get the benefit from when he's with zerks(no retreat wounds come to mind)



gawbo005 said:


> I think that a chaos lord is a much better unit BUT the VERY nice thing about princes is it is a cheap MC unit that can get wings and lash.


The chaos lord is a VERY BAD unit. He is used in armies that are for friendly, fluffy games. He doesn't stack up otherwise. He's ninety points of "Meh" and "no wargear" aside from his 5+ invul save. Princes are nice because they do EVERYTHING on the CHEAP. Lords are nice because the model is nice...that's about it.


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## Bobgenrut (Feb 5, 2008)

Ahh (Trying to get this back on track) the question for those who can't read was Abbadon or DP not Chaos Lord.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

i find my kharn even in a rhino with 7 zerkers will quite happily trounce a unit 2wice thier size and get their points cost (if used well) very quickly. kharn is also very handy for twatting dreadnoughts in cc with gore child!


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## Johnny Genocide (Mar 4, 2008)

DP all the way.

I've never really been a fan of Abaddon, i know he's supposedly "OMGZZ T3h PWNZ0RSS!!1!" but seriously he costs more than a Land Raider. I'd much rather just get a a Lash Prince and an obliterator for the same price (actually I think that's cheaper).

And like Waffles said above it doesn't matter what squad he's in he can still get swept on the odd event that they lose combat. 

And anyways, DP's have so much more combat potential and are much more survivable and faster.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Johnny Genocide said:


> And anyways, DP's have so much more combat potential and are much more survivable and faster.


No, no they don't and no, they're not (except the faster part).

Daemon Princes can get at best six attacks with Chaos Marks and the charge. Abaddon throws out six Attacks like it's the most casual thing in the world with the same Weapon Skill, higher Initiative and better Strength.

Abaddon's also a hell of a lot more survivable with the same Toughness (unless the Prince has the Mark of Nurgle), better armor save and IC status, plus a better Invul (unless the Prince is a Tzeentchian one).


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## Exodus (Nov 12, 2008)

ive seen Abaddon in games since his first relase (we used to call him abbagonner due to multiple las cannons to the face) but his current incarnation is wickidly good as a hq choise hes hard to beat ive seen him smack about (and kill in combat) Deamon princes, bloodthirsters Caranafexes Lisander and a squad of termanators avatars the list goes on ive only killed him once in combat with Logan Grimnarr and i recon Karn would do it.

Anyway after that rant in my opion go with him he truly is the despoiler of worlds and use a deamon prince for your own fit out and conversion still i use a cahsos lord in power armour more than i use my deamon prince try both and see wath impresses you the most.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Abbadon = 2x DP, Mok, Wings(ok 5 pts over but who cares)

About 8 games out of 5 those 2 will do more good then mr Black Crusade himself:wink:
Abbadon lumbers 6 inch each turn, thats about it, you can run away from him. 2 winged princes wont be "outrun" and are roughly as killy anyways but most of all, they are _two_. Numbers always count, remember that:good:

If you somehow manage to make a list that the opponent must assault then yea, Abbadon will be worth his points, but that rarely happens. Even less so if he is close by


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## Bobgenrut (Feb 5, 2008)

I got Abbadon by the way, but any way the thread can still continue, with me saying this:

I have seen a brass scorpian make a baneblade go apocaliptic then make a titan go apocaliptic with its plasma reactors tacking out the brass scorpian, several baneblades, DP's, loads of marines and guards and ect, but the onlything left standting in the blast was ABBADON THE DESPOILER!!!


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## emperor (Apr 2, 2008)

Two princes are always good choices which are cost effective and tactically relatively easy to use and to pull off well. But Abbadon, if used and fielded in the right way is nigh unstoppable. Sure he's slow and can be swept, but these problems dont exist if he's put in a land raider with 8 bezerkers or slaaneshi marines, and he will cause massive problems to any army in that set up.

In a land raider he's protected and can get to the enemy quickly, also a land raider will allow the bezerkers to get in there furious charge. There are very few units that will survive Abaddon and accompanying bezerkers charging out of land raider.


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

Bobgenrut said:


> Hey I'm going into Games Workshop tommorow and am thinking about getting
> Abbadon The Despoiler for my black legion army, but from what I've herd Lords are... CRAP.
> 
> Is Abbadon an exception or is a DP still more worthy.


Crap eh? I didn't know that 17 Power Weapon attacks from one model can be considered crap. Or auto wounding on a 4+ with potential rerolls. Or instant killing anything you hit. Or having a fairly nasty ranged weapon. Or the ability to hide them in transports. Or the ability to use squads for cover. Or getting them a 2+ armor save. 

I find it strange most people can't see that Lords have slightly more damage capabilities then Princes. The issue is that they are slightly more vulnerable; so I guess no one wants to run something that can be instantly killed. I agree, it sucks, but by no means do I think Lords are crap. 

As far as Abaddon goes; statistically speaking I think only a Nightbringer matches him in single combat. And the two only really suffer from a lack of mobility. Oh well, Abaddon can run, deepstrike and be carried in certain transports, most issues can be worked around.

I also don't think anyone thinks Kharn is crap. Name another thing in the game that will ALWAYS hit SOMETHING in melee.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Bobgenrut said:


> but the onlything left standting in the blast was ABBADON THE DESPOILER!!!


That's 'cause he's badass. :good:


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Bobgenrut said:


> I have seen a brass scorpian make a baneblade go apocaliptic then make a titan go apocaliptic with its plasma reactors tacking out the brass scorpian, several baneblades, DP's, loads of marines and guards and ect, but the onlything left standting in the blast was ABBADON THE DESPOILER!!!


Similar thing happened to me just with 3 baneblades. My friend's Abbadon was the only thing left from a large chunk of killled and guess what happened... Mephiston flew in and got 9 attacks on him and wiped him dead... That was fun....

But on a reltaed note Go with what you think would fit your army more. Abbadon is a savage model and character but if you have few or none terminators or land raiders he might not fit that well..... He might stick out a lot and be a high priority target then.... the DP is always a high priority target but they can be taken out fairly easily and will have a lot of attention on them as they are so big.....


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