# How to protect monsters?



## mahavira (Jan 10, 2010)

I've been considering putting a DE hero or lord on a manticore, and hit a bit of a roadblock: monsters like griffons and manticores have no armor save, and T5, while good, isn't much protection against a lot of the ranged attacks out there, to say nothing of chaos warriors with halberds. Monstrous cavalry use the armor save of the rider, but there doesn't seem to be much to keep many monsters from being shot down like the Luftwaffe in a WWII movie. There's a (very expensive) DE magic item which halves the WS and BS of attackers, but that doesn't help an empire general or a high elf prince with a griffon. Hiding behind terrain only takes you so far. Is there a good strategy, or is this the reason I don't see many lists with monster mounts?


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Magic. You can try casting Flesh to Stone or Earthblood on it- this affects both monster and rider. You've just got to be sure to keep the monster in range of the spellcaster. shield of saphery works well for high elves. as does the EOTG, although armour isn't as much of a problem for lizards as they have Scaly Skin across the board. Otherwise i guess you have to look in your own army book for magic items. Alternatively, find a way to increase the monster's speed, thereby minimising the shooting he takes. this would probably require magic too.

To answer your final question- yeah this is why you don't see many monstrius mounts anymore. I used to shove a carnosaur in a unit of cold one riders and then just rip shit up, but now i pretty much have to trade it for a slann.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

coke123 said:


> Magic. You can try casting Flesh to Stone or Earthblood on it- this affects both monster and rider. You've just got to be sure to keep the monster in range of the spellcaster. shield of saphery works well for high elves. as does the EOTG, although armour isn't as much of a problem for lizards as they have Scaly Skin across the board. Otherwise i guess you have to look in your own army book for magic items. Alternatively, find a way to increase the monster's speed, thereby minimising the shooting he takes. this would probably require magic too.


Unfortunately, none of these solutions are available to Dark Elves. The Ring of Darkness is one choice, but not really effective, as the scariest shit will be cannonballs and other things that don't use BS. The lack of any good protection is what makes the Manticore not really viable in the new editions, combined with its decreased effect. If I had to use it, I'd kit up a Dreadlord with the Stubborn Crown, Pendant of Khaleth and good armor to hold up a huge block for forever, the manticore would just help to take care of a few more guys before it inevitably dies.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

throw it behind a unit to block LOS is one way that l have used a few times, that work well.


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## Cheese meister (Jun 5, 2010)

that doesn't work anymore it's true los


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Ward Saves on characters carry over onto Mounts, IIRC. Hence Talisman of Preservation/Vambraces of Defence/Armour of Morrslieb etc


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Masked Jackal said:


> Unfortunately, none of these solutions are available to Dark Elves. The Ring of Darkness is one choice, but not really effective, as the scariest shit will be cannonballs and other things that don't use BS. The lack of any good protection is what makes the Manticore not really viable in the new editions, combined with its decreased effect. If I had to use it, I'd kit up a Dreadlord with the Stubborn Crown, Pendant of Khaleth and good armor to hold up a huge block for forever, the manticore would just help to take care of a few more guys before it inevitably dies.


Well, i was just talking generally. I have no idea of anything about Dark Elves, so there you go. Looks like your monsters may be up shit creek without an enormous paddle. Unless someone who knows DE better can interject?



Cheese meister said:


> that doesn't work anymore it's true los


Except shooting through any unit provides hard cover. So as long as the monster isn't a large target (as many are) this will provide some protection. Except against cannons, which frankly are a monster's worst nightmare.



Vaz said:


> Ward Saves on characters carry over onto Mounts, IIRC. Hence Talisman of Preservation/Vambraces of Defence/Armour of Morrslieb etc


No, the ward save isn't conferred. Characters on monsters are not monstrous cavalry, but are classed as ridden monsters. Page 105 of the BRB. Nowhere does it say that a character confers it's ward save onto a monstrous mount.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I play Bretonians and I do love my Hippogryphs but yeah they are very fragile, the Ward save from Blessing of the Lady carries over to the mount but even with that you'll struggle to keep them alive.


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## Blackhiker (Dec 28, 2007)

In general I have found that the best way to keep the monsters safe is to hide them behind terrain while advancing and the making sure that they are in combat during your opponents shooting phase.


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## mahavira (Jan 10, 2010)

It seems very odd that a pegasus has better survivability than a dragon due to the fact monstrous cavalry still uses the rider's armor and ward saves. I wonder if 8E codices will start including items that protect monster mounts - the countermeasure to monsters is way cheaper than the monster, and became a whole lot more accurate in 8E.


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