# Black Templars pulled from GW site



## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...s.jsp?catId=cat1400013&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

The lonely BT tab under Space Marines is now empty. Doing a "Black Templar" search will locate their Codex, the old metal shoulder pads, a Drop Pod, DftS, and the Helsreach novel. A glance through other armies shows that nothing else is missing, only BT. For all intents and purposes, the average consumer is no longer able to purchase their army-specific models; ie Helbrecht, Grimaldus, Emperor's Champion, Sword Brethern, and the Chapter Upgrade.


Im sorry all my Black and White brothers, but it looks like we've been Squatted.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Oh bugger!

I always quite like the Black Templars and now they've gone, for now at least.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

I doubt they've been squatted. Rolled under the generic Space Marine banner or missing due to a site error maybe, but not squatted. You can't really "squat" a Marine Chapter as there is always a way to play them.

EDIT: I'm emailing customer service for an explanation. I'll share whatever I get back.

Double EDIT: Just a couple of thoughts I had while hitting 'send' on that email:

1. If the Black Templars go away as their own thing, why is the codex still available? Something about that strikes me as odd.
2. We might be seeing a re-boxing into a more reasonable kit.
3. Maybe BT will be getting a wave release soon and this was part of it but occurred too soon (as it'd have to be NEXT Saturday at the soonest due to Tau this Sat).
4. We might be seeing an error due to the website team tinkering with the site. If they use Java it's pretty easy to accidentally break, and alternatively they may have had to reorganize the site and it's not done yet.
5. It's too early to panic. I'm sure we'll see a lot more about this soon if there is anything to make of this.

Well email is sent and between the Customer Service Team, it possibly returning later and the rumour mongers getting us some answers we should know by Saturday (here in the states at least) at the latest what's going on I think.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

> Thank you for contacting GW customer services, we appreciate your inquiry but unfortunately don't actually give enough of a crap to let you know what the answer is. Please feel free to spend as much money with us as you possibly can, you can contact our customer services department as often as you like to ask questions we will not answer.


That's my prediction.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

normtheunsavoury said:


> That's my prediction.


GW actually has a customer service who answers the phone and writes emails back. You're thinking of the FAQ department who cherry picks stuff to answer, never responds and generally acts like they shouldn't have to work to get paid.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I wrote a letter on behalf of a few members a while back asking some questions that people wanted answers to, the letter back was more than I expected but didn't really answer many questions at all.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

normtheunsavoury said:


> I wrote a letter on behalf of a few members a while back asking some questions that people wanted answers to, the letter back was more than I expected but didn't really answer many questions at all.


I remember that, but I don't recall that be aimed at customer service, in fact I believe that was an actual letter.

Anyways not all the BT stuff is missing, on the Finecast page you can find the Emperor's Champ, the Sword Brethren and Helbrecht. Grimaldus seems to be missing though.

EDIT: The upgrade kit is floating about too. I'm thinking more and more that the page just broke.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

So poking around the web and GW's site something was noticed. On the Templar Upgrade Sprue it no longer has the old path that puts them under Space Marines but directly under Warhammer 40,000.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1491078

Looks like Templars are just getting their own page like Dark Angels did.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

In the past when kits disappeared or got shifted around it was the sign of a new release. The last few codexes have seen relatively seemless changes. But I recall from Necrons that almost the entire range vanished for about a week before the 5th Ed codex released. Most of it was because they went from metal to plastic kits. But in the case of Warriors and the Monolith, it was just a new box. So probably just house cleaning, not squatting.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

There's also the possibility that the Space Marine codex release rumoured for summer isn't generic space marines after all...

Just saying :wink:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I heard that they have defected to North Korea


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

bitsandkits said:


> I heard that they have defected to North Korea


Ah ha ! that must be those "hi tech weapons" that Kim Flung One Dung Hung Lung was threatening us all with!


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Magpie_Oz said:


> Ah ha ! that must be those "hi tech weapons" that Kim Flung One Dung Hung Lung was threatening us all with!


I'm preying South Korea get hold of a Squig Gobber, that should solve everything


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Bindi Baji said:


> I'm preying South Korea get hold of a Squig Gobber, that should solve everything


nah we'll just get GeeDub to do a quick Codex rewrite and nerf them then NK will just nerd rage quit.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

All this fits with the rumour they're getting put back into the big vanilla book...


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

If they were getting squatted then they wouldn't have a listing in the 6E rulebook on the allies matrix. 

Also, here's an interesting bit.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landingArmy.jsp?catId=cat440164a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i think its mearly a case that someone has cocked up the code and they have dropped out of the usual place, but hey thats just too simple when you can fill your torch with oil and sharpen the points on your fork and book a ticket to Nottingham. 
I can tell you first hand that when you have a huge online catalogue of products sometimes stuff gets mixed up, missed and forgotten. If any army was going to get squatted it would be the sisters of battle as they are the ones who need the most work, templars are just gravy for GW, they use all the vannilla sprues and kits, they are a perfect entry level army for new players as they are black so easy to paint and easy to identify with and they really wont need much doing to them to bring them into 6th edition, not to mention they are really really really popular in terms of sales. 

keep calm and put the pitch fork away


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Theres been a lot of "website cockup" going around as this news has circulated, however I find it very odd that one of the two armies whos fate hangs in the balance just disappears overnight. Its definitely a sign of something, good or bad.

I did just discover that GW is no longer blocked at work so.....theres that :grin:


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

My money is on cock up as it seems the online shopping cart has exploded now too


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Theres been a lot of "website cockup" going around as this news has circulated, however I find it very odd that one of the two armies whos fate hangs in the balance just disappears overnight. Its definitely a sign of something, good or bad.
> 
> I did just discover that GW is no longer blocked at work so.....theres that :grin:


what are you talking about, no armies fate is in the balance, GW have only ever got rid of one army and at the time it was the right thing to do, the squats were a poor army, they had almost no models, no fluff, the concept was rubbish and since there demise GW have added 4 armies, squats never had a codex, infact it was so long ago codexes didnt even exist. 40K has done nothing but grow since they got rid of the squats.The only thing putting Templars fate in the Balance is the internet community's misplaced paranoia.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

Grimmy and friends are still there ...

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...s.jsp?catId=cat1400013&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

OIIIIIIO said:


> Grimmy and friends are still there ...
> 
> http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...s.jsp?catId=cat1400013&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k



wow its like someone noticed the cock up and put it right , is it too late to get a refund on my "hay chucker 5000" ?


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> The only thing putting Templars fate in the Balance is the internet community's misplaced paranoia.


That and presumption.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

bitsandkits said:


> The only thing putting Templars and SoB's fate in the Balance is GW's complete lack of customer base communication, inability to update codecies in a chronological fashion, and last but not least, internet rumormongering.


Fixed for ya bud :so_happy:


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

bitsandkits said:


> The only thing putting Templars and SoB's fate in the Balance is the requirement for people to actually buy them.


Fixed the fix


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

The idea that Templars and Sisters are getting "squatted" is nothing more than fear over loss of investment in an army.
They're not going anywhere. If anything, they're taking a while to bring up to a standard to give them what will be hopefully a better background and flavorful game play. 
Were either of these armies no longer intended for future releases as stand alone armies -OR- going to be written off then neither one would have been included in the allies matrix. If they didn't show in that matrix then the assumption that they will be discontinued/combined into another book may have more credibility.
As it stands, they're not going anywhere as far as removal from the game.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

GrizBe said:


> All this fits with the rumour they're getting put back into the big vanilla book...


Which if true this would happen when the new Vanilla codex launches. The page is back now so someone probably borked something up is all.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

SilverTabby said:


> There's also the possibility that the Space Marine codex release rumoured for summer isn't generic space marines after all...
> 
> Just saying :wink:


I'm going with Tabby on this one


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Magpie_Oz said:


> Fixed the fix


Catch22. Theyre never updated, so they dont sell. They dont sell, so theyre never updated.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Catch22. Theyre never updated, so they dont sell. They dont sell, so theyre never updated.


Join the club on that one.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Zion said:


> Join the club on that one.


 
Allies Matrix be damned, you and me can be BBs :laugh:


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Maybe, like the forced scarcity of the Tau, this mess-up was intentional. They screwed with the Templars to see the reaction they would get; how many people would call/email and how much nerd rage would fill forums. Or they just messed up because their site is so big and shit happens.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> wow its like someone noticed the cock up and put it right , is it too late to get a refund on my "hay chucker 5000" ?


Homebase just refused a refund for my electrolux 2000 solar powered pneumatic pitchfork, not impressed, I could have bought a plastic thunderhawk with the money instead 



Archon Dan said:


> Maybe, like the forced scarcity of the Tau, this mess-up was intentional.


maybe it was the templars worried about bad press, they'll be after ubisoft next week :wink:


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Just to add more nails to the coffin I got an email response from customer service (I've changed my name, but I've left their typo in):



> Hey [Zion],
> 
> Thanks for writing in to us! The Black Templars can be found under the Space Marine tab; this is because they pull most of their miniature range from Space Marine kits. Due to a glitch the Blact Templars were removed from this link yesterday, although you could still find them via the search feature. The web team was contacted and the issue is resolved.
> 
> ...


Basically the site borked up. If GW Customer Service had given us any other answer like "we are looking into the matter" or "we do not know the cause of this at this time" then we'd know something is afoot, but GW rather promptly responded (this actually hit my inbox yesterday but I'd forgotten to check after the issue had essentially resolved itself) so we know that this is indeed most likely just a case of technical issues. It was actually a case of seeing what _wasn't_ said that was being used to see if it'd tip us off onto what GW was up too.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Archon Dan said:


> Maybe, like the forced scarcity of the Tau, this mess-up was intentional.


Where's your proof? You keep harping on that line, but it just really looks like you just hate Tau and have to rationalize to yourself how they can be popular. It's a bit sad man.


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## revilo44 (Sep 17, 2010)

I think that black Templars may next even more now than ever because in June should we get elder sisters and black Templars are next two oldest codexs


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

revilo44 said:


> I think that black Templars may next even more now than ever because in June should we get elder sisters and black Templars are next two oldest codexs


GW doesn't go "oldest to youngest" on anything.

Currently, after Eldar, the next 40k Codex is Vanilla Marines followed by Tyranids in January.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Thanks for getting back to us Zion. Glad they replied clearly, minus the typo. Maybe it's some kind of code to crack. :grin:



MetalHandkerchief said:


> Where's your proof? You keep harping on that line, but it just really looks like you just hate Tau and have to rationalize to yourself how they can be popular. It's a bit sad man.


I wouldn't psycho-analyze somebody based on a couple threads. Might make you look bad. 

I have no proof. And I wasn't the person to suggest the idea but I like it. Furthermore, I really like Tau, always have. It's not that I'm rationalizing them being popular. I'm rationalizing how GW could not realize how popular they are and appear ill-prepared for their own release. That's what I'm "harping on," as you put it. I was actually speaking tongue-in-cheek that post. 

Thanks for the input and judging me. Looking forward to our next chat. :grin:


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Archon Dan said:


> Thanks for getting back to us Zion. Glad they replied clearly, minus the typo. Maybe it's some kind of code to crack. :grin:


No problem. I don't think it's a code as much as an impressive typo. "K" and "T" aren't near each other on most keyboards....


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Zion said:


> No problem. I don't think it's a code as much as an impressive typo. "K" and "T" aren't near each other on most keyboards....


True, but "T" is the first letter of the word following Black.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Archon Dan said:


> They screwed with the Templars to see the reaction they would get; how many people would call/email and how much nerd rage would fill forums.


That would imply GW listens to their customer base who frequent forums... which we know they don't.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Jacobite said:


> That would imply GW listens to their customer base who frequent forums... which we know they don't.


How do you know that?

There must be some way that they get all of the amendments, errata and FAQ's and I bet it isn't purely from emails.


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

MetalHandkerchief said:


> Where's your proof? You keep harping on that line, but it just really looks like you just hate Tau and have to rationalize to yourself how they can be popular. It's a bit sad man.


Sounds to me like he has a perfectly healthy suspicion of games workshop and their sales gimmicks.

Which brings me to my real criticism: Do you really mean to say the whole "due to high demand" thing with the tau didn't strike you as even a bit suspicious?


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Adramalech said:


> Sounds to me like he has a perfectly healthy suspicion of games workshop and their sales gimmicks.
> 
> Which brings me to my real criticism: Do you really mean to say the whole "due to high demand" thing with the tau didn't strike you as even a bit suspicious?


Considering Internet bitching about Tau not getting update since I got back into this game in 2008? No.

I also don't see GW intentionally not setting itself to make money. I think there was an honest mistake in their sales forecast and they fell short of what they actually needed.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Adramalech said:


> Do you really mean to say the whole "due to high demand" thing with the tau didn't strike you as even a bit suspicious?


aaargh watch out for the commies under the bed!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Adramalech said:


> Which brings me to my real criticism: Do you really mean to say the whole "due to high demand" thing with the tau didn't strike you as even a bit suspicious?


Why would it be suspicious? 

The whole pre-release sales thing and initial production run of a new release of miniatures is a VERY carefully orchestrated process. 

A designated amount of capital would be allocated for the project and a strict time frame imposed. The amount produced is based on those economics and less so on crystal balling on possible sales.


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## revilo44 (Sep 17, 2010)

It never really wanted army at the moment to preorder from GW. But I may do with wood elfs,elder and blood angles.
Back on topic 
I think lots if things could happen with black templars 
They get A new codex
They part of space marines mini dex
Added with sisters of battle


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

revilo44 said:


> It never really wanted army at the moment to preorder from GW. But I may do with wood elfs,elder and blood angles.
> Back on topic
> I think lots if things could happen with black temples
> They get A new codex
> ...


Space Marines aren't getting a Mini-Dex. Deathwatch perhaps might again someday, but not one of the Marine armies.

Sisters and Marines aren't going to be in the same book. Especially Marines who don't pair up with Sisters well (look at the Allies Chart).


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## iamtheeviltwin (Nov 12, 2012)

Adramalech said:


> Which brings me to my real criticism: Do you really mean to say the whole "due to high demand" thing with the tau didn't strike you as even a bit suspicious?


Not at all. The production for this release was completed months ago and the company had obviously set production numbers too low. Who knows all of the reasons why their guesses were off, but I suspect it was a combination of most first world economies being in a better position now than over the last several years, the fact that Tau are the easiest race to bring as allies no matter what other armies you run, pent-up demand for an army that hadn't had a new codex since 4ed, and excitement over the first Xenos codex of 6e. Take those and the generally positive reactions to the new models and you have more demand than the company anticipated when their initial production runs were completed months ago. 

Talking with my local GW drone, she was told by her upper management that they had dramatically underestimated the demand. Their initial production run was projected to be two months worth of stock and it sold out in a little over 2 days between store stock and pre-orders. 

Note that the two month stock argument carries through to when the next expected 40k codex should drop in June, the point where they would be able to examine the demand of the Tau line and set future production goals accordingly. GW is now forced into ramping up Tau production to meet initial demand and pre-orders and will most likely up their long term sales forecasts, but it is just as likely pent-up demand simply caused a bubble and they could end up with too much stock after that bubble bursts.

From a business perspective there is no advantage to dramatically under producing a product and most companies want to maintain a small stock of any product they plan to continue selling.

I realize the internet has made tin-foil hat conspiracies the norm and the negativity echo-chamber resounds loudly, but come on...


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Outdated armies sell a lot of books and units when updated....weird how that works.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Outdated armies sell a lot of books and units when updated....weird how that works.


Eventually, yes. Perhaps the Tau numbers where based on some of the other armies, like Daemons where it took nearly a month before the limited edition books sold out. Buisnesses plan production around forecasts. They try to aim as close as possible to demand so they don't have a lot of unsold product sitting around. Unsold product is a loss in revenue until it's sold.

Alternatively though when they underproject they also lose money as they can't sell you anything they don't have. And then people have to work extra hours to make up for it. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the casting rooms are working overtime to get caught up because of this.

From a business standpoint, even a business like GW, tries to balance supply and demand so that they can reap the biggest rewards possible by having enough to meet the demand but not so much that it artificially devalues the product due to surplus. There is nothing to be gained from intentionally running out of a product like this as all it does is result in customers who can't give you that money you want and a black mark on the company.

I believe this is going to cause them to rethink how they forecast sales and then go from there. Hopefully they won't end up having a SNAFU like this again because honestly it was a Fuster Cluck across the board once the orders couldn't be filled. It's caused a lot of strife with both customers and FLGS that wanted something that they couldn't get when they wanted it and that is REALLY bad for the company. I almost imagine GW going the safer route and over estimating just to ensure this doesn't happen and then selling down to a minimum stock to maintain in the warehouse at any given time just to prevent this from happening again.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Outdated armies sell a lot of books and units when updated....weird how that works.


That must be GW plan. They won't update Sisters, Wood Elves or Bretonni until they really need money.


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

Because I must be crazy and paranoid if I think Games Workshop manipulates people's feelings and ideas with carefully worded announcements to make more money... that's the only logical explanation, right?

Because erring on the side of trust and sympathy where games workshop is concerned is so incredibly healthy and reasonable...

(that was sarcasm, for those of you who are confused or didn't pick up on it)


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Adramalech said:


> Because I must be crazy and paranoid if I think Games Workshop manipulates people's feelings and ideas with carefully worded announcements to make more money... that's the only logical explanation, right?
> 
> Because erring on the side of trust and sympathy where games workshop is concerned is so incredibly healthy and reasonable...
> 
> (that was sarcasm, for those of you who are confused or didn't pick up on it)


I wouldn't call you crazy or paranoid, but I would say you missed the mark. NOT taking your money is counter to GW's normal strategy of taking ALL your money. And since they can't just go into your bank and take it all that way they ransom you these shiny new models. But no one will pay the ransom if they can't get their shinies in return.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Well certainly attributing personal attribute to a corporate entity is a bit whackky


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Well, looking at Sisters at the mo' just look how expensive it costs to put together a Sisters Squad.

Sister Superior $21.00AuD
Sister with Simulacrum $22.00AuD
Sister with Heavy Bolter $23.00AuD
Sister with Heavy Flamer $23.00AuD
Sister with Multi-Melta $23.00Aud
Sister of Battle x 2 Packs $58.00AuD

Equals $170.00Aud for basically one squad.

It is more expensive for one single 10 x Sisters of Battle squad than an entire Battleforce box set. 

If GW were to bring them out in a 10 Sisters plastic box set for say $63.00 AuD they lose $103.00AuD, GW aren't gunna do that anytime soon.


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

Zion said:


> I wouldn't call you crazy or paranoid, but I would say you missed the mark. NOT taking your money is counter to GW's normal strategy of taking ALL your money. And since they can't just go into your bank and take it all that way they ransom you these shiny new models. But no one will pay the ransom if they can't get their shinies in return.


Having read your earlier post regarding supply and demand, I realized that very thing. My resentful post framed as facetiousness was more targeted at those referencing tin-foil hats and communists.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Achaylus72 said:


> Well, looking at Sisters at the mo' just look how expensive it costs to put together a Sisters Squad.
> 
> Sister Superior $21.00AuD
> Sister with Simulacrum $22.00AuD
> ...


I have a two word rebuttal to that based on current rumours: "Plastic Wraithguard".

GW doesn't really make nearly as much on metals as they don on plastics anymore. Moving Sisters over to plastics means not only improving the quality of the models but severely slashing overhead on making them. Not to mention they could increase revenue by having new stuff making everyone with all the old stuff replace it with the new stuff while also getting new people into the army.

Seriously it makes less sense to keep the army in metal than it does to move to plastic, even from a "GW is insane and greedy" standpoint.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Zion said:


> I have a two word rebuttal to that based on current rumours: "Plastic Wraithguard".
> 
> GW doesn't really make nearly as much on metals as they don on plastics anymore. Moving Sisters over to plastics means not only improving the quality of the models but severely slashing overhead on making them. Not to mention they could increase revenue by having new stuff making everyone with all the old stuff replace it with the new stuff while also getting new people into the army.
> 
> Seriously it makes less sense to keep the army in metal than it does to move to plastic, even from a "GW is insane and greedy" standpoint.


Well what do you expect from GW, i mean, just imagine say in June we were getting a whole new Sisters of Battle mega-release, the whole shebang, what GW experienced with Tau would be nothing compared to the onrush of pre-orders for Sisters, it would be their biggest release for years, but GW is refusing to bow to public pressure to release Sisters for whatever reason, who knows, maybe the rumours they are getting squatted could sadly be true.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Achaylus72 said:


> Well what do you expect from GW, i mean, just imagine say in June we were getting a whole new Sisters of Battle mega-release, the whole shebang, what GW experienced with Tau would be nothing compared to the onrush of pre-orders for Sisters, it would be their biggest release for years, but GW is refusing to bow to public pressure to release Sisters for whatever reason, who knows, maybe the rumours they are getting squatted could sadly be true.


The continued rumours of squatting are perpetuated by trolls, people who can't understand that not only Marines can wear power armour and people who think "not updated NOW" means "not updated EVER".

GW has killed -one- full army to date (because it was poorly conceived, shouldn't have been transferred out of Rogue Trader and failed to properly fit the setting or the theme of "Space Dwarves") and has been repeating for years now that they don't plan on killing any others. If Dark Eldar can get updated, so can everyone else.

EDIT: And no, the compilation/campaign codexes of yore don't count. They had multiple armies in them and often required the codex of the army it was related to in order to be used. And lists like Kroot Mercs don't count because they never made it into actual codex form or were actually called a "codex".


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Achaylus72 said:


> If GW were to bring them out in a 10 Sisters plastic box set for say $63.00 AuD they lose $103.00AuD, GW aren't gunna do that anytime soon.


The fallacy of that is that you are assuming there is $103 to lose.

I would guess the demand for the Sisters of Battle is pretty low at the moment so by keeping the price high the current stock will be slowly dribbled out to anyone who desperately wants them and doesn't care about the price. Were they to lower the price they would have to start to produce them again which I am guessing that they don't want to do.

If they were dirt cheap then I would 100% say they are being squatted. A high price means they are really just place holders until the new models turn up.

They are _probably_ on the "to do" list rather than the "to go" list.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

I'm only surprised no one has blamed GW for the recession yet or the North Korea situation for that matter


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Bindi Baji said:


> I'm only surprised no one has blamed GW for the recession yet or the North Korea situation for that matter


No they are just so poorly run they totally ignored those opportunities.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Bindi Baji said:


> I'm only surprised no one has blamed GW for the recession yet or the North Korea situation for that matter


Wait, maybe GW and NK are in cahoots.....? :shok:


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Tawa said:


> Wait, maybe GW and NK are in cahoots.....? :shok:


I they were in Pyongyang?


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

It makes sense now! NK threaten nuclear war and people go mad buying up GW figures which mean more plastic which means more oil!!! :ireful2:


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Via Faeit212 and one of their 'best sources':



> No book is being discontinued. All are getting 6th Ed updates. Hint hint. Nudge nudge.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

GrizBe said:


> Via Faeit212 and one of their 'best sources':


Which I thought was the case. To me, the allies matrix in the BRB confirmed that no army was going to see it's way out the door. Were that the case, why even mention them on the chart?


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Which I thought was the case. To me, the allies matrix in the BRB confirmed that no army was going to see it's way out the door. Were that the case, why even mention them on the chart?


can you imagine the nerd rage if they had missed an army from the matrix?


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> can you imagine the nerd rage if they had missed an army from the matrix?


The sheer explosion of it all going off as soon as the 6E book hit would've been terrifying. Horsemen would've ridden the skies, water would've turned to blood, cats would've started sleeping with dogs... you know, that whole end of the world chestnut. :shok:


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## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Tawa said:


> It makes sense now! NK threaten nuclear war and people go mad buying up GW figures which mean more plastic which means more oil!!! :ireful2:


Nah, if a week goes by and NK hasn't threatened someone THEN you should worry.


And send in Rodman to smooth things out.

I wonder if Rodman would work on GW pricing... :laugh:


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Karyudo-DS said:


> Nah, if a week goes by and NK hasn't threatened someone THEN you should worry.
> 
> 
> And send in Rodman to smooth things out.
> ...


He would and you'd see a huge price increase to cover his past child support bills.


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

Tawa said:


> It makes sense now! NK threaten nuclear war and people go mad buying up GW figures which mean more plastic which means more oil!!! :ireful2:


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Adramalech said:


>


Like these....? :shok:


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Tawa said:


> Like these....? :shok:


Umm... no.

More like this guy.









And these guys.









Now we're talk'n.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Umm... no.


Awww, no fair


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Tawa said:


> Awww, no fair


Some things aren't fair... ask any Sisters player.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Some things aren't fair... ask any Sisters player.


You say that like you actually need to ask. We usually tell you long before you get a chance to ask.


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## revilo44 (Sep 17, 2010)

Why does everyone forget wood elfs, Brets and dwarfs they have not a book in a long time.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

revilo44 said:


> Why does everyone forget wood elfs, Brets and dwarfs they have not a book in a long time.


They have plastic troops/core. Their not an all metal army. Besides what happens in fantasy stays in fantasy.


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Umm... no.
> 
> More like this guy.
> http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n486/12bunny11/PredatorStatuetteshot.jpg
> ...


Am I weird for wanting the predator to jump my bones?


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Adramalech said:


> Am I weird for wanting the predator to jump my bones?


that depends, is it a thursday?


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## Adramalech (Nov 10, 2009)

bindi baji said:


> that depends, is it a thursday?


bindi! Form up banana voltron!


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Necrosis said:


> Besides what happens in fantasy stays in fantasy.


Blessed be the Emperor.....


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## revilo44 (Sep 17, 2010)

This gives BT more hope of them not being rolled into the Space Marine codex and may be a sign of the next codex after eldar.have a look at the rumour below please remember that this is a rumor.

via Bigred on Bols
Retailers now reporting Black Templar kits unavailable for restocking.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

revilo44 said:


> This gives BT more hope of them not being rolled into the Space Marine codex and may be a sign of the next codex after eldar.have a look at the rumour below please remember that this is a rumor.
> 
> via Bigred on Bols
> Retailers now reporting Black Templar kits unavailable for restocking.


GW does this for things that are pending updates. Like with Tau recently or Eldar now. Not having to stock isn't signs of us losing Black Templars but perhaps of them not being made mandatory stock items until they get updated, or GW ran out of the kits due to playing catch up on the Tau.

Give it a couple weeks and we'll get more info as we go I bet.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

If anything its probably a sign of how badly they screwed up the Tau release with understocking as most of the factory's run time will be devoted to getting out pre-orders.. which are still taking up to two weeks more in some places.


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## revilo44 (Sep 17, 2010)

Zion said:


> GW does this for things that are pending updates. Like with Tau recently or Eldar now. Not having to stock isn't signs of us losing Black Templars but perhaps of them not being made mandatory stock items until they get updated, or GW ran out of the kits due to playing catch up on the Tau.
> 
> Give it a couple weeks and we'll get more info as we go I bet.


I have seen that happening with the updates in 6th. Thinking that we All want to see what new models/units they get in the book.I will try post the rumours if you don't there first lol


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Tawa said:


> Necrosis said:
> 
> 
> > They have plastic troops/core. Their not an all metal army. Besides what happens in fantasy stays in fantasy.
> ...


This just reminded me of this meme.










On topic, BT becoming unavailable for restocking sounds good, like Codex update good. This is a positive sign for a BT player IMHO.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Here is the link.

http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2013/04/the-black-templar-mystery-thickens.html

Take it as you will. I will stand up and applaud GW if they finally do the right thing and slip a BT book out as the mysterious "Space Marine" book. They are pretty good at keeping a lid on things until a month in advance.

Either that or we're getting rolled, and you can keep an eye on EBay for my hard work and money.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I don't know if it's been posted, but black templars have been relocated into space marine section. Indicating they are being bundled with blue boys, perhaps.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Creon said:


> I don't know if it's been posted, but black templars have been relocated into space marine section. Indicating they are being bundled with blue boys, perhaps.


Theyve always been in there. So was DA until their 6th update. Pretty sure BA was in there for a while as well.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

They're not getting bundled, they're getting an update. 


Grief, bunch of doomsayers.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> They're not getting bundled, they're getting an update.
> 
> 
> Grief, bunch of doomsayers.


Agreed 800%. Wait for us to actually see them in the Vanilla codex before we go crying and gnashing our teeth. Until that happens (and IF it happens) there is no reason to get your banana-hammocks in a twisted mess as it's just rumours, scuttlebutt, hearsay, lies, damned lies and half truths until proven otherwise.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Zion said:


> Agreed 800%. Wait for us to actually see them in the Vanilla codex before we go crying and gnashing our teeth. Until that happens (and IF it happens) there is no reason to get your banana-hammocks in a twisted mess as it's just rumours, scuttlebutt, hearsay, lies, damned lies and half truths until proven otherwise.


Were there to be a bundle then I believe there would've been a couple of lines under the Allies Matrix in the BRB that may have read:

BT follow the Allies Matrix for Codex: Space Marines
SoB follow the Allies Matrix for Codex: Grey Knights/Imperial Guard 

But, since nothing like that exist in the book (nowhere to be found) then BT will get an update and in all likelihood it might be this year... with 5 new models.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Were there to be a bundle then I believe there would've been a couple of lines under the Allies Matrix in the BRB that may have read:
> 
> BT follow the Allies Matrix for Codex: Space Marines
> SoB follow the Allies Matrix for Codex: Grey Knights/Imperial Guard
> ...


Sorry if I wasn't clear, what I was trying to say was that unless we see the Vanilla with the Templars inside there is no reason to be get bent out of shape. Same goes for the Sisters and the "Inquisition Codex" rumours.

While it's good to track rumours, get some ideas on what might happen and so on, but it's never good to get horribly overly caught up in what the rumours are. Rumours are novelties, something to entertain yourself with, not something to base your future army plans on.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Zion said:


> Sorry if I wasn't clear, what I was trying to say was that unless we see the Vanilla with the Templars inside there is no reason to be get bent out of shape. Same goes for the Sisters and the "Inquisition Codex" rumours.
> 
> While it's good to track rumours, get some ideas on what might happen and so on, but it's never good to get horribly overly caught up in what the rumours are. Rumours are novelties, something to entertain yourself with, not something to base your future army plans on.


Actually, I understood you just fine. TBH, I was trying to expand on your comment which apparently failed on my part.

Inquisition codex is as much a dream as my owning a '69 Shelby Fastback.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Nope, no BT in the upcoming vanilla codex,
this thread feels like a white hole just passed by


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Bindi Baji said:


> Nope, no BT in the upcoming vanilla codex,
> this thread feels like a white hole just passed by


Interesting phrase.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Interesting phrase.


Red Dwarf Reference.

+Geek points for Bindi. Who's name is another reference. lol.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

So what is it?


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

I've never seen one before - no one has - but I'm guessing it's a white hole.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

I think were experiencing the middle of this conversation.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> I think were experiencing the middle of this conversation.


Seems that way.


OT; I don't think BT players have anything to fear about a loss of their faction as an Indy army. If anything, with the news that the BT aren't available fir direct order this should be a positive indicator of a new release on the horizon.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

d3m01iti0n said:


> I think were experiencing the middle of this conversation.


What did you just say?


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Tawa said:


> What did you just say?


Tawa, we were talking about that time at the place with the guy and the thing. You know, don't act like you don't.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Tawa, we were talking about that time at the place with the guy and the thing. You know, don't act like you don't.


You mean that bar just outside :lazy2: where there was that woman with the :shok: ?


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Tawa, we were talking about that time at the place with the guy and the thing. You know, don't act like you don't.


Relative time dialation in a compressed space.


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## nevynxxx (Dec 27, 2011)

have we used d3m01iti0n to ram our way through 53 doors yet, or is the fun yet to come?


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

nevynxxx said:


> have we used d3m01iti0n to ram our way through 53 doors yet, or is the fun yet to come?


No, you're just in time


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

I have a question..... Would you like some toast?


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

No one around here wants any toast. Not now, not ever. 
No toast. ... or bagels, no croissants, no crumpets, no pancakes, no potato cakes and no hot-cross buns and definitely no smegging flapjacks



I appeared to have have taken a thread already off course in a completely different off course direction, again


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Toast? I wouldn't mind a piece of toast thanks, if I'm not too late of course.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

This thread is getting just a little bit too off topic. Get it back on track or it's off to General :crazy:


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

MadCowCrazy said:


> This thread is getting just a little bit too off topic. Get it back on track or it's off to General :crazy:


OT; I hope GW does some sweet goodness to the BT.


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

I hope BTs get a SC with a rule that says 'Its just a flesh wound!: this model and his unit has FNP 4+'

make it happen GW!


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Considering they're knight marines I'd like to see them become the "it" army for assault and close combat.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Considering they're knight marines I'd like to see them become the "it" army for assault and close combat.


If you're going all Monty Python Knights with this you probably don't want to say that word.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Magpie_Oz said:


> If you're going all Monty Python Knights with this you probably don't want to say that word.


Especially if BT make their new Champions of Ni unit. :grin:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

GrizBe said:


> Especially if BT make their new Champions of Ni unit. :grin:


who are the keepers of the sacred words: Ni, Peng, and Neee-wom!


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

GrizBe said:


> Especially if BT make their new Champions of Ni unit. :grin:


I thought that only effected the knights who say "ekki- ekki-ekki-pitang-zoom-boing!"

Anyway, I could see the new BT foregoing ranged combat to end up as the close combat marine chapter with lots of cheaply priced PW.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Give them free frags, but then make them pay for Blind grenades or somesuch gear to nerf Overwatch. Also Combat/Storm Shields for Crusader squads.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Bindi Baji said:


> No one around here wants any toast. Not now, not ever.
> No toast. ... or bagels, no croissants, no crumpets, no pancakes, no potato cakes and no hot-cross buns and definitely no smegging flapjacks


Aah, so you're a waffle man? 



OT: I'll be interested to see what toys the BT get with a new book


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

> Anyway, I could see the new BT foregoing ranged combat to end up as the close combat marine chapter with lots of cheaply priced PW.


yeah GW should go this route, make BT into a real CC army like BA but instead of jump packs we get bodies and weapons..

two PW per crusade squad, Blind and Defensive grenades, Sword brethren squads with nothng but PWs and special grenades and access to lighting claws, AV13 dreads,etc..I dont really care if we lose our 2 HWs terminator squads as long as BT become a real CC army


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Can we get the title changed to "Black Templars not pulled from GW site"
or "SOB squatted" or even "INCOMING SOB/Tyranid combined codex"
:grin:


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Bindi Baji said:


> Can we get the title changed to "Black Templars not pulled from GW site"
> or "SOB squatted" or even "INCOMING SOB/Tyranid combined codex"
> :grin:


Actually I'd like to see this moved to General 40k and merged with the BT thread there. At least then it'd have a home.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Zion said:


> Actually I'd like to see this moved to General 40k and merged with the BT thread there. At least then it'd have a home.


I'd like to this thread combined with fries and a drink at a reasonable lunch time price of $4.99

OT: what are Sword Brethren? Are they the BT version of Sternguard like Vets are for DA?


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

> what are Sword Brethren? Are they the BT version of Sternguard like Vets are for DA?


another name for veterans, theyre kind of crap in the current codex


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

redmapa said:


> another name for veterans, theyre kind of crap in the current codex


How disappointing, Sword Brethren is such a cool sounding name.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Not all Sword Brethren are crap; technically our Termis are Sword Brethren too. Because BT rank structure is different, life in the BT is thus: you survive charging gunlines as a Neophyte a few times, you graduate to an Initiate. You survive charging MCs with a chainsword a few times, you graduate to Sword Brethren. At that point you can roll elite power armor style (and take Furious Charge, Tank Hunters, or Infiltrate) or you learn how to wear that chafing Tac Dread armor. Our Termis are obviously awesome. Our PA Brethren not so much (basically due to points).


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Not all Sword Brethren are crap; technically our Termis are Sword Brethren too. Because BT rank structure is different, life in the BT is thus: you survive charging gunlines as a Neophyte a few times, you graduate to an Initiate. You survive charging MCs with a chainsword a few times, you graduate to Sword Brethren. At that point you can roll elite power armor style (and take Furious Charge, Tank Hunters, or Infiltrate) or you learn how to wear that chafing Tac Dread armor. Our Termis are obviously awesome. Our PA Brethren not so much (basically due to points).


I'm not sure what a PA Brethren(Power Armour most likely) is, but, that sounds cool. Does the Initiate wear power armour like a regular marine?


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Yeah PA is Power Armor.

Neophyte = Scout
Initiate = Sphess Mahreen
Sword Brethren = Veterens/Terminators
Reclusiarch/Master of Sanctity = Chaplain
Castellan/Marshall = Captain
High Marshall = Chapter Master
Emperor's Champion = hopped up Sarge w/ Warlord Traits

Since BT still has the old school Legion mob mentality, a Initiate takes a Neo to himself for training, like a squire. You learn battle first hand alongside your trainer. When that Neo has enough experience he will get his Power Armor, become an Initiate, and take himself a Neo. Get a couple hundred years under your belt and youll see some black and red pauldrons and a fancy cape (Sword Brethren). Its a system that has worked for 10,000 years, BT outnumbers every chapter anyway, so to hell with Codex Astartes.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Yeah PA is Power Armor.
> 
> Neophyte = Scout
> Initiate = Sphess Mahreen
> ...


Sounds interesting, like Allies with my Dark Angels interesting.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Just to warn you, BT isnt too fond of DA thanks to the Ophidium Gulf incident. So fluff wise they SHOULD be desperate allies. Plus you cant bring a filthy witch if you bring BT. They dont like those heretical shenanigans.

Just more fluff for you since Im on a roll.......not sure if youve ever read up on them but Im bored.

During the defense of Terra, Dorn appointed Sigismund the Emperor's Champion. He was near unbeatable in combat (and probably the only guy to defeat Kharn in the World Eater's gladiator pits), and was given the best wargear the Fists had, which was painted black to mark his status. He roflstomped Chaos on the ground. When it was over and Guilliman demanded all Legions break and follow the Codex Astartes, Dorn told him to piss off. This almost led to another round of infighting between legions, so rather than have it come to that Dorn ordered the Legion break. Sigismund took the most zealous of the Fists as the Black Templars who were to be painted black and wear his personal heraldtry. In order for their ultimate defeat by Chaos, Sigismund vowed they would continue the Great Crusade in the Emperor's Name.

BT is fleet based, but will set up fortressess on liberated worlds for recruitment. Since theyve been doing this for 10,000 years, their true numbers are unknown to the Inquisition. It is said that if the entire legion would unite that they would be unstoppable. As they are fleet-based a typical BT strategy is the use of orbital strikes and drop pods to soften a target, then landing the troops and armor in a mad rush on a weakened position. Missile spam, LRC spam and countless blobs of marines swamp the the enemy, and is fluffy and effective in-game.

BT is divided into Crusades. They have countless numbers so there are probably hundreds of Crusades spread out through the galaxy, smashing systems into bits. Basically a Marshall is petitioned by planetary governments, and if they deem the cause worthy a Crusade is declared and they head off to squash whoever is messing around. I highly suggest reading Helsreach, as it is a GREAT novel (agreed upon by even non-Templar fans) and gives a good idea as to their structure and ideology. A Crusade is declared, a Champion chosen, and they go to war. Of note as well is Priests of Mars, which is another GREAT book. A small Crusade tags along with the Mechanicus and IG into uncharted space. Though its a very small squad, again it is a great view into their personality and tactics, and the duel between the Skittari commander and the fresh Initiate is awesome (especially with the IG taking bets; "oh the Chaplain will choose that fancy Emperor's Champion guy.......oh wait he chose that noob over there......noob still wins"). 

Also take into account though they are assholes and look down on certain chapters, they are not the lunatics some make them out to be. Sigismund himself was considered to be the greatest swordsman in the Imperium, and this carries to Crusaders. They prefer hand to hand combat, and will only charge on positions weakend by heavy orbital bombardment and missile spam, usually dumping out of Land Raiders. All in all, theyre the reason Im into the hobby as much as I am, and theyre very special to me. Okay, Ive typed enough, and I hope you learned something


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Indeed I did.


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