# New editions of 40K and old people...



## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

As I've recently just reached the ripe old age of 39, I've realized something about myself and 40K.


With whispers of 6th edition off in the horizon, I realized I'm a lot less excited about when new editions come out. In thinking about why that is, I'm not completely sure, but it might have something to do with my age.

As I grabbed my walker and shuffled to the kitchen to make my fiber enhanced drink, I realized the older I get the less I look forward to having to learn new rules.

Why is that? Do any of you "old timers" feel this way? 

- Is it because each day, the older I get, life gets more and more busy and I have less and less time to dedicate to reading and mastering a new rule set? 

Or is it something all together more insidious...


*OLD AGE*

- Maybe it's because each day, as more and more brain cells die off, I have less on hand to deal with learning new rules?

_"...Wait, what did I just read again?"_




- Maybe it's because each day, as my mind increasingly succumbs to the entropy of this world, I have a hard time keeping the rules of previous editions separate from the new? 

_*My opponent:* "...Uhh, they don't have that rule anymore." 
*Me:* "...What? Really? I'm sorry... I didn't realize that. When did they change that?"
*My opponent:* "Back in 4th edition."
*Me:* "Oh..."_




- Maybe it's because each day, as I edge closer to the inevitable cliff of deterioration and decline, it is harder and harder to recall freshly learned material? 

_*Me:* "...How does assault work again?"
*My opponent:* *sigh*
*Me:* "I know, I know, I keep forgetting. I'm sorry... how does it go again?"_ 




Well what do you guys think? If you're an old timer like myself, does this describe you? Am I poor representation of the ancient race of elders who still play with little plastic men, or do you find yourself in the same boat? If you're young, what do you think? When you play against "older" opponents, do you see these things, or is this all just me?






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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

I get that. Usually i cover my back by regaling them of tales of Orks with bolters and space marines with shuriken catapults until they fall asleep or run away, then i steal their models.


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## GrimzagGorwazza (Aug 5, 2010)

Grokfog said:


> I get that. Usually i cover my back by regaling them of tales of Orks with bolters and space marines with shuriken catapults until they fall asleep or run away, then i steal their models.



This is true, Grokfog is one of the most notorious lootas i know.

I tend to get this, though i'm now heading towards the ripe old age of 28 i still remember playing 2nd edition and gorkamorka. I can't even recall how how those used to work now. I occasionally have to untangle rules for some of the youn whipper snappers who get 4th and 5th mixed up but i've only just become satisfied that i "get" the rules myself. 

Now with 6th schedualed for next year i worry that by the time i have a competent grasp of the new system, we will already be hitting 7th ed.


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

I'm almost 49 and have been collecting and playing since about three months into First Edition.
I think that now the differences between Editions are getting smaller and smaller, with each update.
Now, don't get me wrong, there's still an awful lot to strike from your memory and just as much to replace it with and comprehend quickly and efficiently.
But nowhere near like the amount between, let's say, Second and Third Editions.
And we got through that little trauma...


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Pssyche said:


> I'm almost 49 and have been collecting and playing since about three months into First Edition.
> I think that now the differences between Editions are getting smaller and smaller, with each update.
> Now, don't get me wrong, there's still an awful lot to strike from your memory and just as much to replace it with and comprehend quickly and efficiently.
> But nowhere near like the amount between, let's say, Second and Third Editions.
> And we got through that little trauma...


Yes, but you're Eldar. ...You guys age a lot more gracefully than the rest of us. 


First let me say I bow to your wisdom as I was but a young spore in Junior High when 1st edition came out. I didn't get into 40K until 2nd edition, but I sure do remember the switch from 2nd to 3rd. The major difference? I was but a young pup a year or two into college when that came out. 

I used to be able to pull all nighters all week long with nothing to sustain me except legally addictive stimulants and cheap fast food. Now I can barely stay up past 1am before turning into a pumpkin. 


Granted each rules edition since has been subtle changes to LOS, or assault, etc. but at some point it all begins to run together and I find myself as *Grimzag* said, barely feeling like I've mastered the previous edition before the next comes out. 





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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

"Yes, but you're Eldar..."
Ha ha ha ha ha...

Perhaps one of the reasons that the editions do blur together, for many people, is that the differences are more subtle these days.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Pssyche said:


> Perhaps one of the reasons that the editions do blur together, for many people, is that the differences are more subtle these days.


Having played every edition from Rogue Trader onwards (if you include the week of second edition I played before I gave up because I did not like the assault rules), this is spot on. Large parts of RT are still clear despite having not played for over a decade, whereas the rules from third edition onward are similar enough that I sometimes remember the third or fourth edition version first without realising.


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> whereas the rules form third edition onward are siinnler enough that I sometimes remember the third or fourth edition version first without realising.


Meaning you accidentally slip into 3rd or 4th while playing a game without thinking about it?


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## XT-1984 (Aug 23, 2011)

Yeah I been playing since 2nd edition, not really looking forward to 6th. Nothing wrong with 5th if you ask me.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

With the Gaming Group I'm a part of the youngest guy is 34, and the oldest 65. All of us have either being playing since RT days or at least were buying the books and collecting the models. I'm in the latter and I didn't actually start playing until 3rd Ed, because like the others who are in that latter group I was too busy working/on overseas business trips. Also, some of the people in our Group are our offspring....the 34yo is my Son (I'm 54).

At a guess I'd say I've played close to 200 games this year, but because shit happens I doubt I'll get in many more, so it'll be more to do with using my experieneces to help others out (IG mainly). Same goes with most of the entire Group really (games played wise) as the enthusiasm for Gaming is strong, but it isn't just 40K and Fantasy WH, but also Warmachine, FOW, Infinity, etc. There's also nothing better than just simply getting together and waffling on for hours about the state of the game, latest model release, saying how crap WD is this month, berating the painting skills of each other, admiring the probably close to 300/350K collection of models we have between the 15 of us.

So yea, for me and my friends old age has done little to diminish our desires...gaming-wise anyway - our wives might have a different spin on it:biggrin:


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

I've been playing since RT (87 or so) and have played every rules version so far.
While I can remember various bits of the older editions (where they differ from current), I've not played them in years, so they are 'forgotten' mostly.
3rd ed through current is simply a refinement of the same core rules.
I'm often correcting clubmates who remember a certain rule from 3rd ed that plays differently under 5th ed, though.


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

I do miss the times when you could kit everyone out in Lasguns and have a beautiful battle where no one actually got hurt....


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Uber Ork said:


> _*My opponent:* "...Uhh, they don't have that rule anymore." _
> _*Me:* "...What? Really? I'm sorry... I didn't realize that. When did they change that?"_
> _*My opponent:* "Back in 4th edition."_
> _*Me:* "Oh..."_
> ...


This is me in most games. I continually remember older editions of rules, especially assaults, and it frustrates the hell out of me. I try to look up rules when I can't remember them, but that pisses opponents off. That's probably the main reason I don't like playing people with new codexes.

BTW: I'm 39 too, welcome to the club.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

I wouldn't mind that  i continiously have to look up crap myself and im only 20.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I was lucky. I started into the 40k universe with epic in 89. Dabbled a little with 40k in the mid 90's but diddn't get serious untill 2007. Even then i was in png and did not play a game even though i was building my armies under 4th ed. I started gaming under 5th and that is what i remember. On the other hand i still remember the space marine rules very well.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Uber Ork said:


> Meaning you accidentally slip into 3rd or 4th while playing a game without thinking about it?


Unfortunately, yes.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Uber Ork said:


> As I've recently just reached the ripe old age of 39, I've realized something about myself and 40K.
> 
> 
> With whispers of 6th edition off in the horizon, I realized I'm a lot less excited about when new editions come out. In thinking about why that is, I'm not completely sure, but it might have something to do with my age.
> ...


Sorry you don't get to play the old age brain drain card yet, as the hippocampus (Essential for dialectic memory) does not start to shrink till 50+) Unless your day to day life is incredibly stressful or your routines require so little mental activity that centers in your brain are atrophying (Not likely though).

Also it probably has less to do with old age and more to do with memorizing multiple sets of data that are very similar and don't always come into effect. For instance if you read two separate books on the exact same event, but one was newer and more accurate. No one would blame you if you got some of the data confused between the two interpretations. 

Yet another major cause of such confusions is the simple fact that core rules become procedurally ingrained over the 5-7 years you use the data over and over again. Hence you actually have to expend attentional resources to remember the new rules while the old rules will still be like a default you accidentally rely on when your not thinking, because you really aren't as no attention is required to recall such ingrained responses.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

i put it down to years of passive solvent abuse and lead poisoning in the early years


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> i put it down to years of passive solvent abuse and lead poisoning in the early years


Not sure about the lead poisoning. however I can still remember the woozy moments from modelling for too long at a time without getting fresh air; especially as when I started I used enamels.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> Not sure about the lead poisoning. however I can still remember the woozy moments from modelling for too long at a time without getting fresh air; especially as when I started I used enamels.


i passed out once because insisted in sticking all the 6mm troops from 2 boxes of space marine to the bases with plasticweld in a mates dining room so we could play that night, apparently i had pupils like dinner plates and a bump on me noggin, but i was too high to care. i think its why i only use super glue now.... the vapors from platic glue make me feel a bit ill:shok:


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## Alexious (Apr 13, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> i put it down to years of passive solvent abuse and lead poisoning in the early years


I have several figures that must be totally toxic... from RT era... and I like to encourage young children screaming "MEPHISTON RULEZ LOLZ OMG WTF" at the FLGS to touch them and then put their finger in their mouths. 

As for my old age... meh. One thing that I do hate as I have aged is I must admit now at 39... approaching the 40th... 

1). New Editions. Damn rule changes... 

2). Looking over a sea of plastic that i wanted to get done and wondering if in 20 years time a small newspaper article will appear about silly old man who was found dead surrounded by 1000000 toy soldiers all unpainted.

3). The only real drama I face is when i play against some kid... and he has not painted a thing... or WAC power freak again in some shade of plastic grey... and I can no longer tell the difference between a High Elf Spearmen and a Sea Guard at 5ft after a few hours of play.


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## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

i only recently got back into the game , and i only left like two months after 5th edition came out and im probably know less than most now. i had to take a beginners course last month.


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## Lubacca (Sep 4, 2011)

Well how many editions have you been through, that very well be why you feel that way and now that you're older...heh...well there you go


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

Thread title should be re-named "Warhammer 40,000 - Midlife Crisis edition"...

But seriously, I'm 21 and I've never given a crap about new editions.

The only things that I get excited about are new Chaos Marine codex's, new Chaos models, maybe new terrain and new ADB novels, and that's it.

Just roll with it, you can't force yourself to give a crap about a new edition.

I mean, why would you be excited about new 'overall' rules anyway?

Edit: and there's also the fact that the 4th edition was very similar to 5th. So you'd be forgiven for expecting the same thing this time, hence no excitement for having to learn off a few small differences.


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## Phobos (Aug 28, 2011)

What I've noticed most about getting old (35 here) is that I don't want to read pages upon pages of information to try and eke out the rules I need. I want an executive summary, with everything I need to know clearly titled, indexed, and explained.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Yes, I hate those "gotcha!" rules that are not mentioned except in the fine print of one special character.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Uber Ork said:


> As I've recently just reached the ripe old age of 39, I've realized something about myself and 40K.
> 
> 
> With whispers of 6th edition off in the horizon, I realized I'm a lot less excited about when new editions come out. In thinking about why that is, I'm not completely sure, but it might have something to do with my age.
> ...


 
At 45 i do feel your pain.

But i look forward to the day when i finally grow up and become an adult, then again maybe not.


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## Coldshrike (Sep 9, 2011)

Pfft, I've barely reached adulthood and I still have to keep re-reading the rules. And the friend who got me into it is even younger, and I still have to keep reminding him of rule changes. Find a new excuse old timer.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I still have my original copy of Rogue Trader, and had every rule down pat after 2 read throughs. Nowadays I have to keep going back to the newer edition for even simple stuff. I think B&K might have the right of it. Sitting too close to the glue pot for too long. 

I might have got to grips with this edition by the time the next one comes out, and then start all over again.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Coldshrike said:


> Pfft, I've barely reached adulthood and I still have to keep re-reading the rules. And the friend who got me into it is even younger, and I still have to keep reminding him of rule changes. Find a new excuse old timer.


Youth is wasted on the young.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

playing since 2nd ed (l know l am only 21 odd right) and yes l somtimes l get them mix up, even worse if you mix up 40K and fantasy. 

still l can't wait for the new ed to come out and try to read most of it by the end of the week.

however l would like a page, which list the page number of the rule that has change from ed to ed. That way l can read those pages.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been playing since Rogue trader days, and at 40 I dont have any intention of stopping playing any time soon.

I have got confused with rule updates since version 4, because the changes were incremental. RT and version 2 were so different from each other and from version 3, its pretty difficult to confuse them as they were really different games.

I am lookinf forward to Ver. 6 as it will provide ne challenegs, espcially for the current batch of uber codexes. Just wait, in 3 years time when GK, SW and BA are all middle to lower tier armies :laugh:


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

humakt said:


> I am lookinf forward to Ver. 6 as it will provide ne challenegs, espcially for the current batch of uber codexes. Just wait, in 3 years time when GK, SW and BA are all middle to lower tier armies :laugh:


Sweet...no mention of IG - still top of the heap then:yahoo:

Nah, I agree with you...swings and roundabouts sorta deal, even with 40K:biggrin:


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## rayrod64 (Apr 19, 2011)

hahaha

49 years here! have you noticed the grey on my avatar,
playing since RT and I rem....

and...

what was the question again?:scratchhead:

sigh......


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## Silens (Dec 26, 2010)

I started during the change over to 5th edition. I am not looking forward to 6th edition. I think it should stay as it is... Even keep all the flaws; I can't be bothered to buy the new stuff I need.


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

I think it is the slight rules changes that bother us older folk. I mix up rules all the time so learning new rules does not help the memory process on me. At 41 I don't plan on stoping playing or collecting or converting all my little men. So these darn youngsters will just have to put up with asking "How does assualt work again?"


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

My group has a Word Document that is chock full of Rules/Weapons Stats/Unit Stats and abilities, etc etc that we use as a 'living' 40K Tactica and also for things we've come across in the past that have caused issues for us.

We can all access it to read and add to as things crop up, as we're all getting on so it's a valuable tool really, plus a source of good conversation etc.


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

sybarite said:


> however l would like a page, which list the page number of the rule that has change from ed to ed. That way l can read those pages.


Brilliant! 


In listening to the other... _he-hem_... "wizened" among us, I have to agree. The small changes are the hardest. It's like parents who have eight children whose names all start with "J" 

"James, Jacob, Jason... whoever you are! Put that down, and quit hitting your brother!"

The rule changes are often so slight, it makes it hard to distinguish/remember the new from the old. With major changes like LOS it feels easier. However, even with things like LOS I still hear guys talking about how their unit can't be spotted because it's in area terrain. 

I think for me it's a combination of being busier in life than when I was in my twenties and 3rd edition came out. It was a big change, but I enjoyed reading about and learning the new system. 

Now I have a wife, four children, and a fairly demanding full time job (all things I didn't have back then). Add to this a significant increase in age (not to mention an alarming decrease in energy), and it makes for a very different challenge than when I was younger. 

Less time and less energy = less desire to learn/master new rules.

Don't get me wrong... I like change, and it would be bad for the game to never change the rules. I would just like it if a way could be found to make it less time consuming to master. To that end, I love *sybarite's* idea. :good: 

Something like that would make a huge difference in learning the changes ushered in with a new rule set. GW could easily make a PDF available for download as they do with their FAQ's, etc.


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## Bitter Old Man (Aug 7, 2011)

I got started playing two weeks after 2nd edition came out. I remember thinking that the models looked interesting, as did the idea of the game. And since I already played Warhammer Fantasy, I figured it wouldn't be to much of a stretch to play 40k.

Then, when I kept playing 40k and eventually stopped playing Fantasy (Haven't touched it in nearly 10 years) I tried to keep each editions rules from intermingling in my skull.

Now a days, I keep trying to remember why it is that I'm not supposed to roll dice and add the highest score to my weapon skill.


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## eawalker (Oct 20, 2011)

I think they just dumbed down the rules with each new edition to cater to the younger gamers these days...quick and easy sells apparently..I dont think the rules having gotten better,far from it..but the minis continue to get better all the time


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## Grokfog (May 4, 2009)

Hmm, Thread Necromancy... appropriate really, considering the material.


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## njfed (Jan 28, 2008)

eawalker said:


> I think they just dumbed down the rules with each new edition to cater to the younger gamers these days...quick and easy sells apparently..I dont think the rules having gotten better,far from it..but the minis continue to get better all the time


I'm 47. I have the same memory issues being talked about here. Not so much old age as the brain is just so full of crap there ain't much room left for new stuff.

They may have dumbed down the basic rules, but I feel like there has been a proliferation of exceptions with every new codex. That is what really is hard to keep track of.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm 31 and I've been playing since 1.5 (Rogue Trader + Battle Manual/Vehicle Manual) and so far I've never had problems retaining rules. They do get a little fuzzy with the incremental changes but I could still play 2nd ed almost entirely from memory. 

Hmm, I'm largely indifferent to new game versions now. I used to greet them with excitement, and a hope that the game would be refined. And over the years sometimes that happened, but more often its been a shift to remake the game in a way that requires new investment. Other than new chaos models I'm not very really interested in shelling out for new GW stuff. 

Though I have been happy with the quality of the core rule books for 4th and 5th ed. I remember playing 2nd ed and having to memorize literally everything because GW couldn't be bolloxed to write indexes or glossaries. The newer hardcover books are miles head of all the old softcovers (codices & 3rd ed) that didn't last well. 

I still like picking up the core rules to read up, but I haven't played 40k in 5+ years or fantasy in 3+ years. So neither of the latest editions of either. While I still like the idea of playing, I despise the AP system, and I don't have a regular group of people to game against, nor a lot of time to dedicate to more than occasional painting. Especially now that the Missus and I just upgraded our family to include a newborn =).

At this point I think warhammer is a creative outlet and nostalgic pass time, but I don't have the time for it to be more.

Cheers,
Kreuger


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

I am 45 and i am a collector first, so learning new rules is not all that important to me.

I might play a few games per year, and i am lucky as those who know me are all too willing to help me out with my gaming.


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## Obithius (Jan 20, 2009)

Wow,this is like a confession forum. My name is Obithius, I'm 35, and I can no longer remember the 40k rules...  
I'm constantly being told "erm...I think that might have been 3rd edition...?"
I was good changing from 2nd to 3rd, but I think, as has already been mentioned, the changes since then have been many and minor. 
Most of the time I don't think new rules are needed, it's just different ways of doing the same thing. We played a game of 2nd edition the other night and it played fine. Terminators were tough, Dark Reapers were terrifying if they got line of sight, the Farseer owned the psychic phase...


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Yeah, it's like they make very subtle changes just to screw with us.


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