# My Theory on the battle against the thousand sons.....



## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Well after watching the pod-cast on Prospero burns and Thousand Sons... i have noticed something interesting if you listen closely they really seem to be implying towards the space wolves being kept ONLY to eliminate other legions (i mean come on there brutes even by world eater standards) Thus i have come to the conclusion the emperor KNEW the wolfs would try to kill magnus, and im sure the books will show how big of cowards the space puppy's are. Since if i remember right in the old fluff Magnus Beat the CRAP out of russ, but the rest of the space wolves stepped into there one on one fight, letting russ get the upper hand.

So i am at the conclusion that the space wolves are secretly chaos worshipers.....THAT or the emperor planned the whole heresy in his quest for god hood and thought "hey Screw you magnus for blowing up my webway portal by warning me of something i set up"

Yes according to the old fluff Magnus warning the Emperor Caused his Mcquivered Webway portal to collapse.

Anyhow what are you guys views on the up coming fluff change? Im personally thinking the thousand sons did nothing to deserve russ being a royal dick.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52542 - Theres already a Thread on this topic.



Witch King of Angmar said:


> So i am at the conclusion that the space wolves are secretly chaos worshipers.....THAT or the emperor planned the whole heresy in his quest for god hood and thought "hey Screw you magnus for blowing up my webway portal by warning me of something i set up"


In my view that is a fairly wild conclusion given the evidence. Abnett states that the Emperor permitted such a (dangerous and untamed) force to exist to take down another legion.

From this, the most logical conclusion would be that the Emperor feared or on some level expected an Astartes rebellion at some point, so maintained an Anti-Astartes force to tackle this problem. In no way does it suggest that Russ was a Chaos worshipper or that the Emperor planned the Heresy/sought godhood.



Witch King of Angmar said:


> Anyhow what are you guys views on the up coming fluff change? Im personally thinking the thousand sons did nothing to deserve russ being a royal dick.


Magnus disobeyed his father twice, almost killed the Emperor, flooded the Imperial Webway (and almost Terra) in Daemons and almost brought down the entire Imperium. If that didn't warrant the Burning of Prospero I don't know what would have.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I have the premonition that the Emperor-haters are going to be more than satisfied with these two books. I can't wait to refresh my Word Bearers' fury with fresh evidence of Emperor's treachery. *malevolent laughter*


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Khorothis said:


> I have the premonition that the Emperor-haters are going to be more than satisfied with these two books. I can't wait to refresh my Word Bearers' fury with fresh evidence of Emperor's treachery. *malevolent laughter*


Oh i agree i want to Punch Big E in the face already, If he hadn't been a whiny man-god sanguinius wouldn't of had to be Horus smacked? I mean come on....Super Magnus + emperor + sanguinius vs horus? Horus would of been wetting him self!


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

It was stated in the other magnus thread that he was loyal but disobedient. There were other primarchs thet were disobedient but probably not to the same degree. However there is one significant point. Each of the primarchs had their own particular set of skills and were encouraged to use and improve them. All except magnus. His skills lay in an area that was frowned upon. But they were given to him by the emp. It is like giving a child a cigarette lighter and telling him not to light it. Hence magnus' dilemma. How can he be all he can be without using his primary skills?
He was probably the most powerful of all the primarchs and the Heresy would have been completly rewritten if he had not been so poorly treated.


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## BiOHaTe (Nov 19, 2009)

I thought the space wolves hated the luna wolves or that chaos legion that looks like they are space wolves with darker shading or something. I can't remember the correct name.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

shaantitus said:


> It was stated in the other magnus thread that he was loyal but disobedient. There were other primarchs thet were disobedient but probably not to the same degree. However there is one significant point. Each of the primarchs had their own particular set of skills and were encouraged to use and improve them. All except magnus. His skills lay in an area that was frowned upon. But they were given to him by the emp. It is like giving a child a cigarette lighter and telling him not to light it. Hence magnus' dilemma. How can he be all he can be without using his primary skills?
> He was probably the most powerful of all the primarchs and the Heresy would have been completly rewritten if he had not been so poorly treated.


QUOTED FOR TRUTH IN ALL CAPS.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

shaantitus said:


> It was stated in the other magnus thread that he was loyal but disobedient. There were other primarchs thet were disobedient but probably not to the same degree. However there is one significant point. Each of the primarchs had their own particular set of skills and were encouraged to use and improve them. All except magnus. His skills lay in an area that was frowned upon. But they were given to him by the emp. It is like giving a child a cigarette lighter and telling him not to light it. Hence magnus' dilemma. How can he be all he can be without using his primary skills?
> He was probably the most powerful of all the primarchs and the Heresy would have been completly rewritten if he had not been so poorly treated.


No, he was encouraged to pursue and perfect his psychic talents. Only as long as he didn't take the forbidden and dark road of sorcery, which unfortunatley he did.



BiOHaTe said:


> I thought the space wolves hated the luna wolves or that chaos legion that looks like they are space wolves with darker shading or something. I can't remember the correct name.


You mean the Black Legion? (reformed from the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus)

And how is that relavent?


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Question. Relevant to this but a little off track. What is the difference between psychic powers and sorcery?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

shaantitus said:


> Question. Relevant to this but a little off track. What is the difference between psychic powers and sorcery?


Generally speaking, Sorcery is the use of pure Chaos, and can be used as a medium to forge daemonic pacts which grants the sorcerer a portion of a daemon's own essence, which allows sorcerers to tap directly into the warp and unleash staggering amounts of chaotic energy. Sorcery is more potent, powerful and dangerous than 'normal' psychic abilites and arguably inevitably corrupts the individual using it. Those who tap into sorcery have to endure the dark temptations and whispers of Daemons and the Chaos Gods which will further drag him down into using the dark arts, and making him a true pawn of Chaos. 

The fine line between sorcery and generic psychic powers is however often blurred and obscure. Everytime a Psyker uses his power he risks corruption, and may to some degree use sorcery without his own knowledge, thus bringing damnation.

Magnus knew that Sorcery was a more powerful and potent variation of psychic power, and believed he could master the dark powers that lurked in the warp. He practised sorcery with the intention of helping the Imperium, but he became corrupted by his practises and became a great threat to the Emperor and Imperium as a whole.


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## scolatae (Aug 25, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Generally speaking, Sorcery is the use of pure Chaos, and can be used as a medium to forge daemonic pacts which grants the sorcerer a portion of a daemon's own essence, which allows sorcerers to tap directly into the warp and unleash staggering amounts of chaotic energy. Sorcery is more potent, powerful and dangerous than 'normal' psychic abilites and arguably inevitably corrupts the individual using it. Those who tap into sorcery have to endure the dark temptations and whispers of Daemons and the Chaos Gods which will further drag him down into using the dark arts, and making him a true pawn of Chaos.
> 
> The fine line between sorcery and generic psychic powers is however often blurred and obscure. Everytime a Psyker uses his power he risks corruption, and may to some degree use sorcery without his own knowledge, thus bringing damnation.
> 
> Magnus knew that Sorcery was a more powerful and potent variation of psychic power, and believed he could master the dark powers that lurked in the warp. He practised sorcery with the intention of helping the Imperium, but he became corrupted by his practises and became a great threat to the Emperor and Imperium as a whole.


I don't belive that Magnus was corrupted by his sorcery at the time of the heresy, otherwise why bother to warn the Emperor of Horus's treachery? Why not simply allow the Heresy to take place and join Horus. I belive that the events of the Heresy would have been totaly different had Magnus not been forced to treachery. Oh and by the way it wasn't the Emperor who instructed Russ to burn Prospero it was Horus who saw the need to deal with the threat Magnus posed to his power and so instructed Russ to destroy Magnus and his legion as opposed to simply bringing him back to terra which was what the Emperor willed.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

shaantitus said:


> Question. Relevant to this but a little off track. What is the difference between psychic powers and sorcery?


IMPENDING BLUNT ANSWER!!! YOU WERE WARNED!!!

Kinda like the difference between masturbation and real sex. In the first case you're NEVER going to reach the heights of the latter, but you're less likely to be mind controlled by someone else (though the little guy might give it a try ). In the other, while its going to be AWESOME in all caps, you'll eventually become the slave of a dark and sinister being with no sense of humour whatsoever.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

scolatae said:


> I don't belive that Magnus was corrupted by his sorcery at the time of the heresy, otherwise why bother to warn the Emperor of Horus's treachery? Why not simply allow the Heresy to take place and join Horus.


Chaos Corruption is often subtle, especially when regarding Tzeentch. There is no fine line between loyalist and traitor, its not simply your one or the other. Magnus himself is likely not to have known he was corrupted, he still percieved himself as loyal to the Emperor, so warned the Emperor of Horus' treachery. However seeing the damage done by his sorcerous warning, its plausable that Tzeentch himself gave Magnus the vision of Horus' betrayal knowing that Magnus would attempt to warn the Emperor, but not knowing it would result in a catastrophe.



scolatae said:


> I belive that the events of the Heresy would have been totaly different had Magnus not been forced to treachery.


He was forced into treachery was he? So he was forced to practise Sorcery was he....?



scolatae said:


> Oh and by the way it wasn't the Emperor who instructed Russ to burn Prospero it was Horus who saw the need to deal with the threat Magnus posed to his power and so instructed Russ to destroy Magnus and his legion as opposed to simply bringing him back to terra which was what the Emperor willed.


That is not entirely clear yet.


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## scolatae (Aug 25, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Chaos Corruption is often subtle, especially when regarding Tzeentch. There is no fine line between loyalist and traitor, its not simply your one or the other. Magnus himself is likely not to have known he was corrupted, he still percieved himself as loyal to the Emperor, so warned the Emperor of Horus' treachery. However seeing the damage done by his sorcerous warning, its plausable that Tzeentch himself gave Magnus the vision of Horus' betrayal knowing that Magnus would attempt to warn the Emperor, but not knowing it would result in a catastrophe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok I agree that he wasn't blameless he shouldn't have practised sorcery. However the Emperor totaly ignored the contents of his message choosing to simply focus on the means by which it was sent. At the moment I choose to belive that it was intervention by Horus that caused Prospero to burn not the Emperor's instruction. We'll see in thousand sons or Prospero burns probably the latter.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

scolatae said:


> However the Emperor totaly ignored the contents of his message choosing to simply focus on the means by which it was sent.


The Emperor ignored the contents of the message with good reason.

The Emperor knew that sorcery resulted in corruption, and after warning/ordering Magnus twice not to practise it, he found out that Magnus not only still practised it but sent a sorcerous conjuration directly at the Imperial Palace, which shattered the protective runes, enabled a Daemonic incursion and forced the Emperor to sit on the Golden Throne right up until the Siege of Terra. 

After all that had happened, would you drop everything, and automatically believe Magnus? Think about it, just for a minute. Magnus had disobeyed you more than once, he was seemingly corrupted, he had almost engulfed Holy Terra in Daemons, He had shattered the psychic defences of the Imperial Palaces, and essentially paralysed you on the Golden Throne. On the other hand you have no reason to doubt Horus' loyalty, he was your favourite, your Warmaster, the most loyal and brightest. Who would you think was the Traitor...?



scolatae said:


> At the moment I choose to belive that it was intervention by Horus that caused Prospero to burn not the Emperor's instruction. We'll see in thousand sons or Prospero burns probably the latter.


Then that is of course your choice. But with the release of the duology (of which it may be as late as Jan 2011) I imagine we'll still have conflicting accounts.


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## scolatae (Aug 25, 2008)

Touche however I would at least consider why one of my sons defied by direct command then risked exposing his transgreshion by warning me with the same powers that I had decreed he not use. In short I would at least consider the message. This is also why I belive that the Emperor didn't instruct Russ to kill Magnus because he would at least be curios about the event that forced his son to defy his command and practise sorcery.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

scolatae said:


> however I would at least consider why one of my sons defied by direct command then risked exposing his transgreshion by warning me with the same powers that I had decreed he not use.


The Emperor did, and concluded that Magnus had become corrupted by the power he had been forbidden to use. There was also the terrible warning that the Emperor gave Magnus at the Council of Nikaea:

'If you treat with the Warp, Magnus, I shall visit destruction upon you. And your legion's name will be struck from the Imperial records for all time.' (Page 94 CV)

Also:



The Horus Heresy Collected Visions said:


> Magnus was to stop all sorcery and psychics on pain of death...





The Horus Heresy Collected Visions said:


> None can say when Magnus was tainted by the Warp, but his actions suggest that corruption was well progressed by the time of the Council of Nikaea. It is probable that his senior officers and Librarians were also corrupt at this point.





scolatae said:


> In short I would at least consider the message. This is also why I belive that the Emperor didn't instruct Russ to kill Magnus because he would at least be curios about the event that forced his son to defy his command and practise sorcery.


The Emperor wasn't rash, I imagine he did consider the message. But again i'll say, there was no reason what so ever to doubt Horus' loyalty, but every reason to doubt Magnus' loyalty.

The Collected Visions itself contradicts istelf as to whether the Emperor ordered Magnus killed or just captured:



The Horus Heresy Collected Visions said:


> The Emperor flew into a terrible rage... He was consumed with anger that Magnus should so flagrantly have disobeyed his orders... The Emperor commanded Russ to move on Prospero and prosecute the rebel Primarch. His orders were clear... They should be shown no mercy!


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

"'If you treat with the Warp, Magnus, I shall visit destruction upon you. And your legion's name will be struck from the Imperial records for all time.' (Page 94 CV)"

That says a lot! I can't read to get my copy! :ireful2: I wonder if thats what happened to the other two chapters?


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Khorothis said:


> IMPENDING BLUNT ANSWER!!! YOU WERE WARNED!!!
> 
> Kinda like the difference between masturbation and real sex. In the first case you're NEVER going to reach the heights of the latter, but you're less likely to be mind controlled by someone else (though the little guy might give it a try ). In the other, while its going to be AWESOME in all caps, you'll eventually become the slave of a dark and sinister being with no sense of humour whatsoever.


This explains alot............. I have just realised my wife is a Keeper of secrets.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

I would still say magnus was not corrupt his legion was loyal beyond any other and when Thousand sons come out that will be proven, And it will hopefully also prove The Leman russ was just a big hairy prick.

On the note of corruption i highly dought magnus was corrupted, for the fact he would of just nuked the space wolves when they started there attack if he could. Even tzeentch wouldn't blink at the chance to completely wipe out the space wolves if he had the influence!


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Well I believe Child (and to a lesser extent myself) have argued why Magnus brought destruction down upon himself, if you wish to stick to your own theory so be it- its of no use for us to keep whacking away at this obviously deceased horse :grin:


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> I would still say magnus was not corrupt his legion was loyal beyond any other and when Thousand sons come out that will be proven, And it will hopefully also prove The Leman russ was just a big hairy prick.
> 
> On the note of corruption i highly dought magnus was corrupted, for the fact he would of just nuked the space wolves when they started there attack if he could. Even tzeentch wouldn't blink at the chance to completely wipe out the space wolves if he had the influence!


Magnus was corrupted, he just didnt know it. and yes the legion was loyal, but by simply practicing socrcery they had comitted heresy, but again, they probably didnt know it (the heresy bit). you have to remember Tzeentch corrupts very subtley.

i think we will all find when 'a thousand sons' comes out the TS story will be a sad one. loyal marines and their primarch tricked into serving choas by subtle manipulation by the lord of change. im positive in all instance both Magnus and the TS legion were under the assumption everything they were doing was for the benifit of the emperor, but alas it was all part of a plan woven by Tzeentch probably as the primarch infacts lay in their tubes in the emperors basement. i love the TS both pre and post heresy, but i am under no illusions they were targeted by Tzeentch for corruption from the start of the crusades or millenia before?

i dont know what you mean by 'nuke em all'. bit hard to nuke them when an entire ardmana of SW attack ships has your planet surrounded and is at the time orbital blasting the shit out of any planetary defense installations you have.



Baron Spikey said:


> Well I believe Child (and to a lesser extent myself) have argued why Magnus brought destruction down upon himself, if you wish to stick to your own theory so be it- its of no use for us to keep whacking away at this obviously deceased horse :grin:


what im looking forward to is finding out who ordered the distruction of the TS legion once and for all. was it the emperor himself? or Horus telling Russ to destroy Prosperto when in fact the Big E just said to go and capture him and bring him back. fluff tends to change around alot on this issue. HH novels are considered cannon right?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Well I believe Child (and to a lesser extent myself) have argued why Magnus brought destruction down upon himself, if you wish to stick to your own theory so be it- its of no use for us to keep whacking away at this obviously deceased horse :grin:


Indeed!

Maybe Brother Subtle will continue the crusade in our name?! :grin:



Brother Subtle said:


> HH novels are considered cannon right?


Everything with a 'Warhammer 40,000' stamp on it is canon 

EDIT: Okay couldn't resist!



Witch King of Angmar said:


> I would still say magnus was not corrupt his legion was loyal beyond any other and when Thousand sons come out that will be proven


*sigh* how many times must it be said?!

He percieved himself as loyal, yes of course he did! But the point is that he disobeyed the Emperor and threatened to destroy the entire Imperium. The Emperor however didn't percieve Magnus as loyal following the Sorcerous Warning (see my previous post for quotes). 

Magnus had only good & honourable intentions, he just went about them the wrong way. Which resulted in his corruption, which in turn resulted in his damnation, by his own hand. He alone is to blame.



Witch King of Angmar said:


> And it will hopefully also prove The Leman russ was just a big hairy prick.


I detect a bit of Bias :grin: - Russ didn't do anything wrong.



Witch King of Angmar said:


> On the note of corruption i highly dought magnus was corrupted, for the fact he would of just nuked the space wolves when they started there attack if he could. Even tzeentch wouldn't blink at the chance to completely wipe out the space wolves if he had the influence!


I presume by 'nuke' you mean use devastating Sorcery to cripple the Wolves? Well read the account of the Burning of Prospero in the CV, they did. But the Wolves still triumphed.

Tzeencth (and indeed the other Chaos Gods) don't have to act in rational ways at all. In fact Tzeentch often plots and schemes against himself simply for the sake of Change.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Indeed!
> 
> Maybe Brother Subtle will continue the crusade in our name?! :grin:


nah, from what ive read it'd be like banging my head against a wooden door.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Tzeencth (and indeed the other Chaos Gods) don't have to act in rational ways at all. In fact Tzeentch often plots and schemes against himself simply for the sake of Change.


Indeed, the daemon Raezazel talks about this in hammer of daemons. Tzeencth is the lord of change, to dwell doing one thing for any period of time would be a paradox to its very existense. he even tricked Raezazel into crashing onto Draakasi even when he was bringing a ship load of souls to the warp just for the sake of change.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

shaantitus said:


> It was stated in the other magnus thread that he was loyal but disobedient. There were other primarchs thet were disobedient but probably not to the same degree. However there is one significant point. Each of the primarchs had their own particular set of skills and were encouraged to use and improve them. All except magnus. His skills lay in an area that was frowned upon. But they were given to him by the emp. It is like giving a child a cigarette lighter and telling him not to light it. Hence magnus' dilemma. How can he be all he can be without using his primary skills?
> He was probably the most powerful of all the primarchs and the Heresy would have been completly rewritten if he had not been so poorly treated.




I'm pretty sure the primarchs were not given their abilities prior to their making by the Emp. 

In Magnus's case for example, t's an innate talent that he simply developed like CoE said.

Alpharius's intellect also being another example and so on.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

scolatae said:


> I don't belive that Magnus was corrupted by his sorcery at the time of the heresy, otherwise why bother to warn the Emperor of Horus's treachery? Why not simply allow the Heresy to take place and join Horus. I belive that the events of the Heresy would have been totaly different had Magnus not been forced to treachery. Oh and by the way it wasn't the Emperor who instructed Russ to burn Prospero it was Horus who saw the need to deal with the threat Magnus posed to his power and so instructed Russ to destroy Magnus and his legion as opposed to simply bringing him back to terra which was what the Emperor willed.


I don't think he warned the emperor to save the Imperium.

I think he knew of the emperor's Webway project and realized that if it ever turned out to be successful, the Imperium would not need to resort to using the warp to travel and thus their chances of turning to chaos would be diminished greatly. And also, agents of chaos wouldn't be able to use the Webway due to the unique location of the portal (under the Golden Throne).

Assuming Magnus was corrupted by the chaos powers and that he knew of the project, he warned the emperor using psychic/sorcery knowing it would unravel the whole project, unleashing millions of daemons, slaughtering many of the emperor's elite body guards, and causing the emperor to become distracted amongst many other things.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> I'm pretty sure the primarchs were not given their abilities prior to their making by the Emp.
> 
> In Magnus's case for example, t's an innate talent that he simply developed like CoE said.
> 
> Alpharius's intellect also being another example and so on.


That seems to be the case yeah. 

As an example:



Lord of the Night Page 193 said:


> ...And in their absence from their father they grew to manhood - each in reflection of the world that had claimed them, each shaped by the people who took them in. The kindness and cruelty of strangers'.


All the Primarchs are implied to have innate psychic abilities in the Collected Visions, It may well have been that Magnus was the main, or only one whose psychic talents were allowed to develop fully due to him landing on Prospero, and being taken in by a coven of sorcerers.



Malus Darkblade said:


> Assuming Magnus was corrupted by the chaos powers and that he knew of the project, he warned the emperor using psychic/sorcery knowing it would unravel the whole project, unleashing millions of daemons, slaughtering many of the emperor's elite body guards, and causing the emperor to become distracted amongst many other things.


Thats certainly a possibility. 

I would say its more likely though that Magnus was 'unconsciously' corrupted, in the sense that he wasn't aware that he was simply a pawn of Tzeentch (until the conclusion of the Burning of Prospero). In this sense - Magnus thought that by sending his sorcerous warning he was actually helping the Emperor, but it may well have been a plot by Tzeentch to kill the Emperor (unknown to Magnus), and thus remove the threat he posed.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Thats certainly a possibility.
> 
> I would say its more likely though that Magnus was 'unconsciously' corrupted, in the sense that he wasn't aware that he was simply a pawn of Tzeentch (until the conclusion of the Burning of Prospero). In this sense - Magnus thought that by sending his sorcerous warning he was actually helping the Emperor, but it may well have been a plot by Tzeentch to kill the Emperor (unknown to Magnus), and thus remove the threat he posed.



I was thinking that he may have just been a pawn of Tzech as well, the latter perhaps knowing of the Webway project and how it would completely change things. 

I think it's too big of a coincidence that the Emp. was working on the Webway the moment Magnus sent him the telepathic message.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I think I can solve this debate..... the emperor is equal to or greater then a factor of Hitler plus Stalin, now if we carry the decimal point we find that he is in deed a jack ass. Hence the emperor did what he did because he is a insane leader who ran a military dictatorship that killed trillions of human and aliens, or if you don't buy that answer consider GW doesn't wright the most logically sound Sci-fi, and be done with the whole debate.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> I think I can solve this debate..... the emperor is equal to or greater then a factor of Hitler plus Stalin, now if we carry the decimal point we find that he is in deed a jack ass. Hence the emperor did what he did because he is a insane leader who ran a military dictatorship that killed trillions of human and aliens


Of course, it cannot be denied that he was a ruthless tyrant. That doesn't really get us anywhere though regarding Magnus and the Thousand Sons.

But if you believe that the end justifies the means, then the Emperor's actions were perfectly justified.

Humanity has two horrible choices: The Emperor, or Chaos/Extinction. Which is the lesser of two evils?


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

If only there was a third choice, but this is 40k and as such a rational third alternative would ruin the whole where screwed one way or another mentality so essential to the grim dark setting. On a none related note the emperor looks like he is native American


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Of course, it cannot be denied that he was a ruthless tyrant. That doesn't really get us anywhere though regarding Magnus and the Thousand Sons.
> 
> But if you believe that the end justifies the means, then the Emperor's actions were perfectly justified.
> 
> Humanity has two horrible choices: The Emperor, or Chaos/Extinction. Which is the lesser of two evils?


Hmmmm Soul sucked up by a giant zombie on a golden toilet....Or give soul to slaanesh or Tzeentch.....

hard call but im joining the damn DEMONS! TZEENTCH MAKE ME A DEMON PRINCE!!!:laugh:


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Emps or daemons? Easy call. Daemons. Before I'm done I'll get to enjoy life like never before, and if you ask me, the Chaos Gods hold up their end of the bargain. You get screwed up, sure, but you get you dreams fulfilled. Whereas the Emperor says "for the greater me" and sends mankind to the slaughterhouse so that he can build the Imperium he desires so much. There is no bargain here, only bullshit. 

"And you remember that thing about chaos? Its fair."


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> On the note of corruption i highly dought magnus was corrupted, for the fact he would of just nuked the space wolves when they started there attack if he could. Even tzeentch wouldn't blink at the chance to completely wipe out the space wolves if he had the influence!


With the release of _A Thousand Sons_: 



we now know that Magnus was a puppet all along.

We also know that Magnus could have easily destroyed the Space Wolf/Custodes/Sisterhood Fleet which attacked Prospero before it even entered the Prospero Sector, but he chose not to - Instead choosing to accept his fate.

Heck, Tzeentch even offered to destory the Space Wolves for Magnus!




Malus Darkblade said:


> I'm pretty sure the primarchs were not given their abilities prior to their making by the Emp.




Magnus' abilities seemed to have been intended for him however, Magnus developed his abilities even as he was being created. He remembered being created, and even spoke with the Emperor as he was being created!




There is also no mention of the apparent implication by Dan Abnett regarding the Space Wolves being an Anti-Astartes legion, maybe that will be saved for _Prospero Burns_


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

I hate spoilers. It is so difficult to argue against the information when not trying to ruin the book for the rest of us.:laugh:


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