# Trouble with tyranids



## Zeranes (Jan 30, 2008)

Ok, I play Ultramarines, and my friend plays Tyranids. I have faced him in a 1k and 3k battles and have been close to being totaly destroyed. I haven't any clue as to how to stop his Nids. need help please.


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## Trignama (Jun 29, 2008)

can you tell me the list he plays??? if you do then i might be able to help ya out a bit


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Bug spray comes in .75 caliber explosive shells. A simple fix, which really doesn't involve a lot in the way of tactics, is to bring a Devastator squad with four heavy bolters. Does quite a number on everything smaller than a Hive Tyrant. 

As tactics go... oddly enough, shooting the big ones really isn't the best idea. The little ones are faster than the big things most of the time, so they're the more immediate threat. Mow down the Hormagaunts and genestealers as quickly as you can, and worry about the big stuff later. Predator Destructors are inexpensive alternatives to Devastators, although a full-strength Devastator squad can do pretty unspeakable things to a horde army. A techmarine isn't a bad buy, either, since he's got good close combat hardware, and with a servo-harness, he's more survivable and has tools for bringing down big bugs at range (albeit relatively short range) and little bugs en masse thanks to his flamer. Attached to a devastator squad with anti-tank weapons, or a tactical squad with a Heavy 1 weapon or the like, the Signum can make a pretty big difference. Make sure somebody in each squad is packing a power fist so you can go toe to toe with monstrous creatures if you absolutely have to. 

Don't let them just come to you, either-- even if you're going to get outfought, charging a brood of Hormagaunts rather than getting charged by them makes your men more likely to survive since there'll be fewer attacks coming their way. 

If you've got the models, and you only ever fight Tyranids, a Tyranid Hunters Veteran Squad isn't a bad buy, for fairly obvious reasons. They're good all-rounders anyway, but they do come into their own fighting against mobs of gaunts and Warriors.


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## Zeranes (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't have his list, but his main force is 36 Gean-stealers (all rending) thats what kills the most when he moves 6 and pulls off a fleet 6 and then assult 6 all in one turn.


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

I'll add a bit to what Son of Horus elequently stated: Ignore the big bugs, hit the small bugs. Most of the big bugs are pretty slow, so have a harder time getting into CC, while the small ones, even lowly gants and gaunts, are capable of tying up your expensive (or any, really) units and wait until the big bug support shows up and cleans house. The one caveat to the above I'd like to mention is synapse. If you are certain you can disrupt synapse range by cacking a big bug, then by all means, do so. Doing so makes cleaning up the small bugs that much easier.

Okay, genestealers. Fast, yes. Lots of them. Sure. So, as has been stated, dev squads with heavy bolters are your friend here, as are plasma cannons. Also, maybe packing a few landspeeders may help you stay away from them while issuing that ever-so-important support fire. 

Also, as has been stated, launching a pre-emptive assault may help keep your marines alive longer, and maybe even win against bugs that have been reduced in strength from selective heavy bolter application.


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## Zeranes (Jan 30, 2008)

*My list*

HQ:
Marneus - 185
Master (Rino, command Squad) - 645

Elite:
Tyranic War Vet - 318
Tyranic War vet - 258

Troops:
Scout (snipers) - 145
Tactical - 242

Fast:
Bike Squad - 233

Heavy:
Predator D. - 170
Crusader - 290
Whirlwind - 150

Support:
Inquisitor - 142
Greyknights - 222

thats all of my models just about, minus a IG armored first and a chaplain on bike.


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## Zeranes (Jan 30, 2008)

All he really has is what all he uses, and thats...

Hive Tyrant
x3 Tyrant Guards
Carnafex
x4 Ravaners
x3 zonathrops
Death Leaper
x6 Warriors
Biovor
x20 Hormagaunts
x36 gene-stealers


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## Trignama (Jun 29, 2008)

well the above posts pretty much covered everything, but as for the devastators i would take plasma cannons over heavy bolters, due to the new template rules they are really effective, and if you are going to take bikes take attack bikes, thats three really mobile heavy bolters for pretty cheap actually. 

Again on the synapse, if you can disrupt it you pretty much render his little gaunts useless (unless of course he is really lucky on leadership rolls) so if you can manage to disrupt synapse, then tag enough of his gaunts to force a leadership test, more than likely they will spend the rest of the game running off the board.

Do everything you can to stop the genestealers from reaching combat, or if at all possible charge them first as stated before. But really i see that being the biggest threat against you so in terms of target priority i would say

1. Genestealers
2. Synapse
3. Any big bugs

so that i hope helps you out a bit


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Nice idea Trig, I'm going to have to try to do that.


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## Longinus (Apr 21, 2008)

I would go for ordnance/blast weapons and alot of good 'ol boltguns k: wich actually pretty good aginst nids(with my experiences). For MC's I use attack bikes with MM. Something to cheer you up is that rending have been nerfed in 5th ed :biggrin:


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## TheUnmarked (May 19, 2008)

Zeranes said:


> HQ:
> Marneus - 185
> Master (Rino, command Squad) - 645
> 
> ...


I know you say thats all your models but your gonna need some more troops in there sometime you could get 2 squads with all those extra bolter rounds for that Master and command squad, really since his tactic s basically mass of troops for CC the best you could do is mass of ranged power to negate his CC benefits


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## Zeranes (Jan 30, 2008)

I just got a 5 man Dev squad w/ heavy Bolters today so that would help alot


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

You need a Vindicator. Possibly two.

A Demolisher cannon is extremely effective at taking out horde armies, and you can target his precious genestealers and splat them all in one big blast. Use all the Ordanance blasts you can get and the nids will take huge losses before they can get close enough to do a bunch of damage. Even if they do manage to make it past your barrage, they will be significantly weaker.


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

I was gonna say Vindicators. Maybe Whirlwinds would do the job too.


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## Trignama (Jun 29, 2008)

yeah definately grab a vindicator if you can, dreads with missle launchers and assault cannons are pretty good against horde armies as well


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

More troops. If you're not hitting him with about 30 bolters a turn, you're gonna die. Drop Calgar, the bikes, and the snipers, get a shitload of SMs off ebay. Paint 'em blue. Put 'em in your front line.

The more Heavy Bolters (or as has been suggested missile launchers or plasma cannons) you have with them, the better.

:bug-hating cyclops:


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

Lol, yeah, when I first started Necrons I was an idiot and went up against a Nid player with an army consisting of only The Nightbringer and 20 Warriors.:no:


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## Amra_the_lion (May 26, 2008)

I think whirlwinds are more effective than vindicators, longer range, cheaper, and kills armor saves on all but the big nids. In your tactical squads go with missiles and flamers. Frag missiles for hordes and krak for the big boys. I personally would loose the inq and grey knights. I also see too many points invested in HQ choices. Leave Marneus and toss out the rest. Add more basic firepower in the form of bolt guns.


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## marcch (Apr 1, 2008)

I play Tyranids and can tell you that pattern weapons are my biggest problem. Bolt guns or their equivilent do a great deal of damage as well, but remember to keep the bugs out of CC as much as possible. Use a disposable unit if you can to slow them down and give you some breathing room. If the big ones or stealers get into your lines it's pretty well over.


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

Another thing: Counter charge! 

*ABSOLUTELY DO NOT* let them charge you, as this will give them an extra attack. If you can get the charge off on them, _you_ get that extra attack, and this can turn the tide of melee combat quite easily. Space Marines are well-rounded, and while genestealers will rip through you, they can fend off hormogaunts fairly well. It is better to charge and deny them the extra attack than it is to be charged by the endless horde.


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## Zeranes (Jan 30, 2008)

That 645pts HQ contains this...

WS - BS - S - T - Wo - I - A - Ld - Save
______________________________________________
Master: 5 5 4 4 3 5 4 10 2+
Apoth: 4 4 4 4 1 4 2/3 9 2+
Champ: 4 4 4 4 1 4 2/3 9 2+/5(i)
Bearer: 4 4 4/8 4 1 4/1 2/3 9 2+
Srgt: 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 2+
Coman: 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 3+

All but the Sergeant, Apothecary, and Command Squad (single guy) have Power weapons.


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

Wow... might want to ease up on the HQ and get more troops. That will greatly help you with crowd control. You have gone for a few awesome units, but nids are a horde army. You need expendable troops to soak the initial blows of the nids. When all else fails, a line of scouts can be quite effective at slowing a charge! Have your marines a few inches behind them and they can shoot the victorious nids (they'll probably beat your scouts) and then charge in to finish what the scouts started.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Awww...The poor scouts and their meat shield abilities 


As a nid player, who uses a lot of Genestealers in my army (4 squads standard ) I will say that you will want to try and whittle them away before they get to you, or if you can't destroy them off the bat, stay inside cover. That will give you first strike because if the nid player is smart, he is using feeder tendrils instead of flesh hooks now a days (Preferred enemy is AWESOME!) So that will help against his Stealers. Any ordnance weapons are my worst enemy as depending on my cover I may not get the cover save against those, where I will nearly always keep part of my squad at least partially hidden to get that precious 4+ cover save. Whirlwinds are good if your decent at guessing range (Is that how that even works now or is just an auto 2d6 variance automatically?) and will hurt a lot. Flamers are also a huge asset against bugs. I lost 12 Gaunts to 2 flamers because they were too tightly packed. They are nasty and ignore cover/armor.


anyways, my 2 cents.


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

Don't Ordanance ignore cover saves anyways?


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

pg. 32

"Remember that models in area terrain get their cover save regardless of the direction the shot is coming from."


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

Yeah, but I think ordanance has its own rule. I don't have the 5th ed rulebook, so look it up under ordanance and blast rules.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

That was under the ordnance rules. Go buy a rule book.

I didn't want to type out the whole part. 

"To determine if a unit wounded by a barrage weapon is allowed a cover save, always assume the shot is coming from the centre of the marker, instead of from the firing model. Remember that models in area terrain get their cover save regardless of the direction the shot is coming from."

Pg 32. Under weapons, barrage weapons. Which are artillery weapons.


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

Ok, thanks.

Oh, and forgive me for not recieveing the book in the mail yet.


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## Skreining (Jul 25, 2008)

Zeranes said:


> All he really has is what all he uses, and thats...
> 
> Hive Tyrant
> x3 Tyrant Guards
> ...


If this is what he uses don't even bother trying to take out the synapse. apart from the Hormagaunts everything else is testing for Instinctive Behavior on LD 10 anyway so there's not much point.

Flamers are your best bet as he will probably be trying to depend on the new cover rules to balance out the 5+ and 6+ saves.



Taggerung said:


> if the nid player is smart, he is using feeder tendrils instead of flesh hooks now a days (Preferred enemy is AWESOME!)


Not quite the really smart nid player will be taking a squad of stealers with flesh hooks and a broodlord with feeder tendrils so they have I10 *and* Preferred Enemy.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Skreining said:


> Not quite the really smart nid player will be taking a squad of stealers with flesh hooks and a broodlord with feeder tendrils so they have I10 *and* Preferred Enemy.


Do his feeder tendrils relay preferred enemy to the unit? Also, other than getting 3 sets of adrenal glands how did you get I 10?


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## Trignama (Jun 29, 2008)

Taggerung said:


> Do his feeder tendrils relay preferred enemy to the unit? Also, other than getting 3 sets of adrenal glands how did you get I 10?


he meant from the fleshooks if charging a unit that is in cover


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

ooo lol, didn't get make the connection.


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## Skreining (Jul 25, 2008)

Taggerung said:


> Do his feeder tendrils relay preferred enemy to the unit?


Feeder tendrils gives everything nid within 2" Preferred Enemy.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

Skreining said:


> Feeder tendrils gives everything nid within 2" Preferred Enemy.


Wow, I didn't know that. Thats very nice.


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## AnubisBlade (Aug 5, 2008)

with all those stealers ya should invest into alot of flamers and h-bolters drop the bikes for speeders with ass cannons drop the bug vets and get 2 more tac squads leave the grey knights on the shelf along with the crusader (too many points not enough back from it) instead take a dev squad with 2 h-bolters and 2 plasma cannons that will help alot on the masses pred with ac and h-bolters would be a good idea too. the snipers???? i say send em back to heavy weapon school and instead take shotgun equipped scouts and make em throwaway units aka 10 scouts with shotguns (S3 AP- assault 2) and take the fight to the smaller bugs with the scouts that or just flat out drop the scouts they are pointless against most of that army ie fearless or in synapse range and thus fearless so pinning won't do anything and wound on a 4+ (in 4th ed) is just as good as rapid fire with bolters but less shots. don't worry about hittin em at long range cause they won't be there long enough to justify the longer range shots for more than maybee 1 turn


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## AnubisBlade (Aug 5, 2008)

and on the ordanance thing the only whirlies that ignore cover saves is blood angel and my Dark Angels with the S4 AP5 large blast no cover shot. otherwise they will always get cover saves for bein in cover but donno how the interviening squad 4+ cover save would effect an indirect ord like the whirlies


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## Skreining (Jul 25, 2008)

AnubisBlade said:


> leave the grey knights on the shelf along with the crusader (too many points not enough back from it)


Erm does your crusader not have 2 Hurricane bolters, a twin-linked Assault cannon, multi-melta and a pintle mounted Storm bolter?

Thats 6 St4 Shots and 4 St6 rending shots all re-rolling to hit, not to mention the 24" St8 Ap1 shot and 2 more St4 shots. That will take out alot.


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## Zorenthewise (Aug 7, 2008)

I agree, the crusader will help a lot. I do, however, agree with Anubisblade's idea concerning scouts. Sacrificial shotgun scouts can slow down a charge significantly, and thanks to the new rule where victoriuos squads not being able to consolidate into combat, the nids that kill your scouts are then open to the full force of the rest of your army's guns.


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