# Chaos troops.



## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

What will you guys be using as your troops choices given the changes to chaos? 
Thousand suns seem the most powerful but also are the most expensive by far due to the sorceror. 
plague Marines are tough as nails but as foot sloggers with no infiltrate and limited range, what role will they play.
Noise marines, worth taking? are the weapon options much better than having standard squads?
Beserkers: seem a bit slow for the long rush to get in close enough to do damge.
Chaos marines: Loads of extras but does needing 10 guys to field heavy weapons cripple them? Could Rhino's be the answer?


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## Fallen Angel (Dec 22, 2006)

Well personally i think it depends on what you want the rest of the list to be. 

Noise marines would provide a good source of anti-horde firepower, lacking if you take multiple obliterator squads.

Thousand sons are tough to kill (depending on what you're facing its a toss up between them and plague marines for survivability) but the ap3 bolter is a gimmick in my eyes.

Beserkers are nice in combat but the age old problem of getting them there is still around. Careful manipulation of rhino hopping could work but....

Plague marines are pretty tough and probably the best source of plasma in troop choices (feel no pain helps overheats and the ability to take two plasma in less than ten models is better than normal CSM). Rhinos are their friends here really.

Normal CSM i just can't see the point in. 10 marines to get a heavy weapon...probably not worth it. 10 marines to take two special weapons, meh, better with plague marines as they have more survivability.


Personally i'll be taking oblits as my heavies so a few squads of sonic blaster noise marines and a plague marine squad in a rhino with dual plasma as my troops.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

This is why I don't care for the new codex. Before you ask what Troop Choices you should take, you should ask to which Legion the army belongs. Despite what the Codex says (and anyone who knows and loves the Traitor Legions will attest), they don't fight in these mismatched warbands, letting their allegiance to their gods go unchecked-- Plague Marines will NOT march in stride with those devoted to Tzeentch, nor will Berserkers fight alongside those dedicated to Slaanesh. The rules may let you, but the fluff won't. Even the blurb in the current Codex regarding how in a Black Legion army, cults will fight alongside each other-- it's not entirely right. In the scheme of a Grand Company, it's possible-- a couple of cult squads out of a thousand Space Marines is plausible under a particularly brutal leader whose sheer intimidation rules out infighting-- but in the kind of warband that the new codex describes... the army would fight itself as much as (and as readily) as any enemy, and in some cases, probably before the enemy. 

I so very strongly dislike the new Codex purely for that reason-- it not only encourages people to play armies against the long-standing background, but almost requires it since some of the Legions are no longer functional as independent armies. Thousand Sons come to mind-- you can't have a functional 2000 point army that has 48 wounds with 3+ saves. It doesn't work-- the mechanics of the game are such that even with superb tactics, the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against you. Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion armies too have lost their defining traits, and above all else, I think the World Eaters have lost what will make them unique. Expect to start seeing squads of Havocs with the Mark of Khorne and assault weapons to back up a Berserker charge. 

To be blunt, here's how I look at it. Your options should be, depending on your Legion alignment (or renegade Space Marine Chapter, for that matter): 

Alpha Legion
--Chaos Lord, Chaos Sorcerer, Chosen Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Terminators, Possessed Chaos Space Marines, Dreadnought, Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Bikers, 0-1 Raptors, Chaos Spawn, Havocs, Predator, Defiler, Land Raider.

Black Legion/Sons of Horus: 
--Abaddon, Chaos Lord, Chaos Sorcerer, 0-1 Daemon Prince, Greater Daemon, Chosen Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Terminators, Possessed Chaos Space Marines, Dreadnought, Chaos Space Marines (Icon of Chaos Glory only), ONE type of the following unit, which must match the Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince's alignment: Khorne Berserkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, CSM with Icon of Tzeentch; Summoned Daemons, Chaos Bikers, Raptors, Chaos Spawn, Havocs, Obliterators, Predator, Defiler, Land Raider.

Death Guard:
EVERYONE must have the Mark of Nurgle or an Icon of Nurgle.
--Typhus, Chaos Lord, Chaos Sorcerer, 0-1 Daemon Prince, Greater Daemon, Chosen Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Terminators, Possessed Chaos Space Marines, Dreadnought, Plague Marines, Summoned Daemons, Chaos Bikers, Chaos Spawn, Havocs (no heavy weapons), Predator, Defiler, Land Raider.

Emperor's Children:
EVERYONE must have the Mark of Slaanesh or an Icon of Slaanesh.
--Lucius the Eternal, Chaos Lord, Chaos Sorcerer, 0-1 Daemon Prince, Greater Daemon, Chosen Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Terminators, Possessed Chaos Space Marines, Dreadnought, Noise Marines, Summoned Daemons, Chaos Bikers, Chaos Spawn, Havocs, Predator, Defiler, Land Raider

Iron Warriors:
--Chaos Lord, Chaos Sorcerer, 0-1 Daemon Prince, Chosen Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Terminators, Possessed Chaos Space Marines, Dreadnought, Chaos Space Marines, 0-1 Raptors, Chaos Bikers, Havocs, Obliterators Predator, Defiler, Vindicator, Land Raider

Night Lords:
--Chaos Lord, Chaos Sorcerer, 0-1 Daemon Prince, Chosen Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Terminators, Possessed Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, 1+ Raptors, Chaos Bikers, Havocs, Predator, Land Raider

Thousand Sons:
EVERYONE must have the Mark of Tzeentch or an Icon of Tzeentch.
--Ahriman, Chaos Sorcerer, 0-1 Daemon Prince, Greater Daemon, Chaos Terminators, Dreadnought, Possessed Chaos Space Marines, Thousand Sons, Summoned Daemons, Predator, Land Raider 

Word Bearers:
Everyone must have the Mark of Chaos Glory (what a dumb name... just call it Undivided like you have for the last what, 20 years?) or an icon of the same name.
--Chaos Lord, Chaos Sorcerer, 0-1 Daemon Prince, Greater Daemon, Chaos Terminators, Possessed Chaos Space Marines, Dreadnought, Chaos Space Marines, 1+ Summoned Daemons, 0-1 Raptors, Chaos Space Marine Bikers, Chaos Spawn, Havocs, Predator, Defiler, Land Raider

World Eaters:
EVERYONE must have the Mark of Khorne or the Icon of Khorne.
--Kharn, Chaos Lord, 0-1 Daemon Prince, Greater Daemon, Chaos Terminators, Dreadnought, Possessed Chaos Space Marines, Khorne Berserkers, Summoned Daemons, 0-1 Raptors (as, admittedly, they are rather choppy.), Chaos Space Marine Bikers, Predator, Defiler, Land Raider

Renegade Space Marines:
Honestly, as any of the above, but Red Corsairs/Astral Claws should follow the Black Legion rules, substituting Huron Blackheart for Abaddon in the list. Followers of Fabius Bile would probably be solely Undivided but follow the same general guidelines as a Black Legion army. 


*sigh* I can't wait to gouge out my eyes when I start seeing army lists that have a Chaos Lord with the Mark of Khorne leading an army with maybe one squad of berserkers to back him up and otherwise be entirely devoted to Slaanesh for the sake of fire support. I HATE the new Codex... if you don't care about fluff, it's just bad... and if you do... it's merely passable as long as you resist the temptation to do dumb stuff with it. :evil:


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> What will you guys be using as your troops choices given the changes to chaos?



Heh, need you ask? 


I have to disagree with Sons here however. It was only in the last codex (to my knowledge anyway) that the hatred between the legions was played up so much that armies wouldn't have a mixture of cult units in them. Personally, I feel that the Ancient Enemies rules were a terrible thing to do and if GW wanted to encourage people to field the cult legions, then there should have been solid reasons to do so, not the hampering most of the cult rules actually turned into. Khorne followers may not like sorcery themselves but I can't see them not using it by employing psykers if there was a need for it.

In the army I am building now, Damn near everything has the Mark or Icon of Tzeentch yet I have included a Sorcerer Lord with Lash for 2 reasons: 1) it is a damn good power that shouldn't be overlooked and 2) it is a psychic power and the Thousand Sons would be the first to welcome a fellow sorcerer to their ranks simply for the chance to learn from him. That being said, I won't put Noise Marines in my army because that doesn't fit my image of how the army would work. To me, Tsons are a group of powerful psykers, god preference notwithstanding, that lead an army of semi-sentient warriors encased in their armour. Hell, just being a psyker period would be good enough for them in my mind.

It is all in how you choose to interpret the fluff and apply it to the list. Overall, I am really diggin the new codex.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

Well, I have 4,000 points of oop World Eaters and bloodletter models. I'll be using both. :twisted:


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## Pyromanic Tendencies (Mar 20, 2007)

The Wraithlord said:


> simply for the change to learn from him.


You really are a follower of Tzeentch, Wraith. You wrote "chance" as "Change" :lol:


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

I agree with some of SoH ideas...I think the players should determine which Legion/ Chapter they are playing first and go from there. A LOT of the legion specific flavor is gone.

In a way I'm glad they toned down the CSM uber powerful special rules and powers, but in doing so they made the legions really simply a matter of paint scheme. Granted, I've been running a "Blood Ravens" army for years with a codex list, no traits and a paint scheme, so it's no biggie.

I think there are a multitude of ways to abuse this new codex, especially with the free-form mix-match hot-swapping of Icons, Lords and troop choices. That and some of the new powers (Lash) is so unbalanced it's gross.

I'm glad that they ARE focusing on the renegades and non-legions more...realistically, the Legions ARE old and likely whiddled down, but I can't see them being simply fragmented to the point of being little mercenary bands.

I dunno. I'm torn on the whole issue.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Pyromanic Tendencies said:


> The Wraithlord said:
> 
> 
> > simply for the change to learn from him.
> ...


There you go . Heh, thanks Pyro, fixed that one.


I really don't think Lash is the horrible evil everyone is going on about. You have to get in range first off which will put the caster in line to be charged, shot at, etc. Add on to that the fact that damn near EVERY sm player has a Libby with a hood and you are having it negated more than a few times. Add on to *that* the fact that the distance you are able to move the unit is completely random and possibly won't really help you anyway. You will get to use this power 2-3 times tops and more often than not it won't go the way you want.

Hell I used it already in a test game and out of the 3 times in 6 turns I got to use it, I moved the enemies models a grand total of 12". TOTAL.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

On the subject of a sorcerer of a different patronage than Tzeentch in a Thousand Sons army, Wraithlord, I'd agree with your logic, and I can definitely see an Undivided or Slaaneshi sorcerer walking around with the Thousand Sons. However, I think that in time, the odd sorcerer's patronage would change eventually, given the company he keeps. For the sake of theme, I'd hope that you'd have the odd-marked Sorcerer as more of an ally, rather than the actual leader of the army-- the second HQ, essentially. Rubric Marines may be mindless, but the sorcerers who lead them aren't, and they're not likely to overlook the far more twisted nature of other Chaos Space Marines. The Thousand Sons were loyal, after all, and Magnus particularly so up to the "Cleansing" of Prospero, and I'd be willing to bet most of the sorcerers would be a bit less than enthusiastic about being commanded by one from a foreign Legion, much less one whose tendencies are closer to the psychotic. My Thousand Sons army will remain purely Thousand Sons, although I may branch out and include mutants and a baneblade with the release of Apocalypse, since, you know, you can... and the Legions had subservient non-Astartes who definitely weren't affected by the Rubric...


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

>> Correct me if Im wrong, but does this now mean that im gonna have to change both my cc squads, cos they in units of 8, with 2 meltas at the moment, but with new dex, I can only have 1? Can you have 2 assault weapons in units of 10 wi the new dex? Can I even have units of 8, or is it 5/10?


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

if you up your squads to 10 men your fine, you can still take 8 man squads but only one special weapon. Plus all the CSM's come with frag, krak, bolter, bp, and ccw so there more versatile than before. A little disappointing though as they dont get the combat squad rules which means cumbersome 10 man squads bowling about


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## Pyromanic Tendencies (Mar 20, 2007)

Continuing the subject of a sorcerer of a different patronage than Tzeentch in a Thousand Sons army, and the Chaos powers fighting along side each other, I could easily imagine Slaaneshi or even Nurglesque Marine fighting with theThousand Sons. After all, Tzeentch is the Changer of Ways, the Lord of Manipulation, and he'd definantly put aside ancient grudges or difference of opinion as part of some greater plan. Indeed, I can well imagine Tzeentch enginering events in such a way as to gain a short-term alliance with the other Gods. 
Slaanesh doesn't really have anything against Tzeentch, and while Nurgle is the Opposite of, and opposes, Tzeentch, the two have been know to fight along side occasionally, when needs must. And as most of the Lord of Changes greatest servants are just as cunning and manipulative as he, they'd be willing to join with others for some kind of mutal benefit. The only one I find hard to belive would be Khorne Bezerkers fighting under the command of, or along side servants of, Tzeentch, as they'd might just refuse to aide a Sorceror, but if they had to, they probably ally.

But these are just my thoughts. Feel free to ignore them. :mrgreen:


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> For the sake of theme, I'd hope that you'd have the odd-marked Sorcerer as more of an ally, rather than the actual leader of the army-- the second HQ, essentially.


Damn straight. My primary HQ is a Tzeentch marked Daemon Prince.

I agree Pyro, I don't understand why some people I have talked to have such a hard time with that idea. Oh well, their loss if they wish to limit themselves for no beneficial reason.


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## titus (Jan 4, 2008)

HHmmm,i take three squads of 8 plague marines with two plasma guns in each squad,the role for these guys is to hold their position and take and hold down the enemy so my special units,terminators,chosen,obliterstors can come and finish them of,


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## titus (Jan 4, 2008)

I think it really depends on the reason why you play this game.I play because i love the fluff and painting/converting.So taking this into consideration my army is not the best at winning,but i dont care,the enjoyement i get out of the other sides of the hobby make up for my losses.I agree with son of h to somr degree,i collect death guard and have PM for my troop choice.The rest of my army is a renegade war band committed to nurgle,in some ways i would love to have some khorn close combat monsters in my army,but it would not look right,anyway thats my say.....


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

See I just take black templar squads with counts as.

Strangely I found my cultists(neophytes) performing much better with initiates instead of legionnaires.


Suck it new dex.


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