# The Crimson King



## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

From Black Library's latest blog:



Black Library said:


> _"I collaborated with John French on this story. At the time of writing, my next Horus Heresy novel will be a Thousand Sons-centric one, called *The Crimson King*, and after some great chats with John in the wake of Black Library Live Dublin, we decided it would be a good idea to knock our heads together to see what links we could forge between my upcoming Magnus novel and his ongoing Ahriman trilogy. We came up with some cracking ideas, stuff that will enrich both our writing, and give the fans plenty to salivate over.
> 
> With this story, I wanted to hint at things I have planned for The Crimson King, and also reference the continuity of John's books. You may have to look hard, but you'll be rewarded with some little nuggets of information that'll stand you in good stead when it comes to our future works with the Legion of sorcerers…"_
> 
> Cheers for that, Graham.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Very much looking forward to a return of McNeill's Ahriman and Magnus. Magnus making his decision to stand with Horus is a momentous one and i'm curious as to how he makes that choice, and why he hasn't simply thrown in with him instantly after what Russ did to him on what Magnus thinks were the Emperor's orders. And Ahriman is working on something and needs the Blademaster Sanakht for it, the Rubric maybe but I think that happens after the Heresy, but then again I could be wrong.


LotN


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

So, _The Crimson King_ will come before _Vengeful Spirit_.



Lord of the Night said:


> Very much looking forward to a return of McNeill's Ahriman and Magnus. Magnus making his decision to stand with Horus is a momentous one and i'm curious as to how he makes that choice, and why he hasn't simply thrown in with him instantly after what Russ did to him on what Magnus thinks were the Emperor's orders.


The Crimson King's decision to join Horus has been hinted at in several Heresy publications now. Most recently in _Thief of Revelations_. But yes, it will be interesting to see it unfold properly. 



Lord of the Night said:


> And Ahriman is working on something and needs the Blademaster Sanakht for it, the Rubric maybe but I think that happens after the Heresy, but then again I could be wrong.


It's not entirely clear when the Rubric was cast. According to _Collected Visions_ though, Rubricae were present during the Siege of Terra. It could quite easily be altered without major consequence though.


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## Karthak (Jul 25, 2010)

Lord of the Night said:


> Very much looking forward to a return of McNeill's Ahriman and Magnus. Magnus making his decision to stand with Horus is a momentous one and i'm curious as to how he makes that choice, and why he hasn't simply thrown in with him instantly after what Russ did to him on what Magnus thinks were the Emperor's orders. And Ahriman is working on something and needs the Blademaster Sanakht for it, the Rubric maybe but I think that happens after the Heresy, but then again I could be wrong.
> 
> 
> LotN


Huh. I thought Magnus knew Horus had "adjusted" Russ' orders. Ahriman found out when he mind-zapped that Rune Priest. Can't imagine he wouldn't have told Magnus.

_"As Ahriman opened Wyrdmake to all that he had seen, he too learned all that had driven the Space Wolves and the Custodes to make such furious war upon the Thousand Sons. He saw the honeyed words of Horus and the sinister urgings of Constantin Valdor, each spoken with very different purposes, but designed to sway Leman Russ towards a destination of total destruction. The scale of this betrayal shocked him to the root of all that he was. Ahriman had come to terms with Horus Lupercal’s betrayal, for it had its origins in the snares and delusions woven by beings to whom the passage of vigintillions of aeons were but the blink of an eye. This? This was all too human treachery. These were lies, told for noble reasons, but which had brought about the unintended consequences of Prospero’s destruction."_


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

It's also not entirely clear whether or not the Emperor directly ordered the Burning either, most of the (older) lore certainly suggests he did and there is nothing which clearly refutes it.


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## Karthak (Jul 25, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> It's also not entirely clear whether or not the Emperor directly ordered the Burning either, most of the (older) lore certainly suggests he did and there is nothing which clearly refutes it.


I've scrolled through Mr. Dembski-Bowden's posts over at Bolter & Chainsword, and he's written in several threads that as far as the Heresy writers are concerned, Horus tricked Russ into burning Prospero.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Karthak said:


> I've scrolled through Mr. Dembski-Bowden's posts over at Bolter & Chainsword, and he's written in several threads that as far as the Heresy writers are concerned, Horus tricked Russ into burning Prospero.


Fair enough. It wasn't clearly clarified in the series though.


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## The Scion of Chemos (May 24, 2013)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> So, _The Crimson King_ will come before _Vengeful Spirit_.


I am fairly sure that _Vengeful Spirit_ will be before _The Crimson King_.
I mean, VS is slated to come out on amazon(trade paperback) in September, so the hardcover will be out in roughly June?

Maybe he meant that it is the next one he is writing, since everyone already knows about VS?
IDK, I guess we will see when the hardcover for Scars comes out and reveals what the next one will be!


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I would think it comes out afterwards! It's surely nice to have Magnus back once more. Also the short by Graham in last years Advent calendar, where Ahriman and Hathor Maat are searching for flesh-changed candidates. This story is considered a 40k-story and not a HH-one. So that could be a clue when it took place.


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## Thrud (Jun 23, 2012)

Karthak said:


> I've scrolled through Mr. Dembski-Bowden's posts over at Bolter & Chainsword, and he's written in several threads that as far as the Heresy writers are concerned, Horus tricked Russ into burning Prospero.


How does this reconcile with the Outcast Dead?

I thought it may have been a better more consistent way to go to make Magnus still loyal by the end. I cant imagine why he would stand with Horus if he knew he had a hand in the destruction of his home, and there is nothing in what I have read that suggested Magnus was destructive or vengeful. He seemed more ashamed of what he had done than anything else, and seemed ready to accept the punishment meted out.


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## Karthak (Jul 25, 2010)

Thrud said:


> How does this reconcile with the Outcast Dead?
> 
> I thought it may have been a better more consistent way to go to make Magnus still loyal by the end. I cant imagine why he would stand with Horus if he knew he had a hand in the destruction of his home, and there is nothing in what I have read that suggested Magnus was destructive or vengeful. He seemed more ashamed of what he had done than anything else, and seemed ready to accept the punishment meted out.


From _Scars_ it seems that it was actually Malcador who first sent Russ to Prospero:

_Malcador chuckled dryly. ‘I never asked you how it felt, Constantin, to see Prospero burn. Did even your callous soul blanch at that?’ Valdor didn’t miss a beat. ‘No. It was necessary.’ ‘Was it?’ sighed Malcador. ‘I did not give the order. *I wanted Magnus censured, not destroyed. What was it that made Russ do it? You never could give me an answer.*’ Dorn exhaled impatiently. ‘You know all of this, Malcador. You know all that happened there, just as we do.’ He was coldly furious. ‘Does this need repeating? The Warmaster is at the heart of it, poisoning everything we do, and now he has the blood of three more Legions on his hands.’_

And then there's this part from _False Gods_:

_‘But what of Magnus?’ asked Maloghurst urgently, ‘What happens when Leman Russ returns him to Terra?’ Horus smiled. ‘Calm yourself, Mal. I have already contacted my brother Russ and illuminated him with the full breadth of Magnus’s treacherous use of daemonic spells and conjurations. He was… suitably angry, and I believe I have convinced him that to return Magnus to Terra would be a waste of time and effort.’ Maloghurst returned Horus’s smile. ‘Magnus will not leave Prospero alive.’ ‘No,’ agreed Horus. ‘He will not.’_

It's pretty damn clear that Horus is to blame for what happened to Prospero, so I agree with you in that I can't really see why Magnus ended up siding with Horus.


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## Thrud (Jun 23, 2012)

Karthak said:


> From _Scars_ it seems that it was actually Malcador who first sent Russ to Prospero:
> 
> _Malcador chuckled dryly. ‘I never asked you how it felt, Constantin, to see Prospero burn. Did even your callous soul blanch at that?’ Valdor didn’t miss a beat. ‘No. It was necessary.’ ‘Was it?’ sighed Malcador. ‘I did not give the order. *I wanted Magnus censured, not destroyed. What was it that made Russ do it? You never could give me an answer.*’ Dorn exhaled impatiently. ‘You know all of this, Malcador. You know all that happened there, just as we do.’ He was coldly furious. ‘Does this need repeating? The Warmaster is at the heart of it, poisoning everything we do, and now he has the blood of three more Legions on his hands.’_
> 
> ...


 Better to have Ariman lead the Thousand Sons on Terra, as you could understand why the rest of his chapter might be aggrieved.

I still cant believe Magnus would knowingly fight against the Emperor, especially after he breached the Throne Room, he was meant to have touched the Emerors mind, and realised what he was doing and how badly he had messed up. We know the Emperor was angry and disappointed in Magnus, but he did not order the destruction of Propero. In fact did he not have plans that Magnus would sit on the Golden Throne?


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