# If One Primarch Returned ...



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Hey everyone.

Just a simple question really, as we all know how popular 'what ifs' are:

*If one Primarch were to return to 40k who would you want it to be and why?

*Would you want one of the Chaos Primarch's to return as they embark on a Crusade against the Imperium, showing that upstart Abaddon how it's done?

Or

Would you want one of the Emperor's loyal Sons to miraculously return and try and save the Imperium from its countless enemies?


I would personally like to see Daemon Primarch Lorgar return at the head of a Holy Crusade to 'liberate' the Imperium.

I think he is probably the best Chaos Primarch for the job of uniting the disperate Warbands of Chaos Astartes and Legions of the Damned together for a Crusade which could rival Abaddon's.

Someone like Fulgrim would be really interesting, but he could only ever call upon Slannesh followers, and it would be too fleeting ala Angron, whereas Lorgar could really impact both the Chaos forces in the Eye of Terror and scare the sh*t out of the High Lords.

Finally, after not particularly enjoying his representation in _First Heretic_, I think A-D-B has crafted a really interesting Primarch in his short work _The Aurelian, _and I think it would be really interesting to see how he has changed in 10,000 years, just like Magnus in _The Battle of the Fang_.


So what say you?


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

If Angron managed to lead another enormous army of Berserkers, I think it'd be the most likely to have major impact on the Imperium (in the "current time," that is). With all the other threats going on... Necrons, 'Nids, 13th Black Crusade, an infinitely pissed off daemon prince with thousands upon thousands of bloodthirsty Space Marines could wreak havoc pretty much anywhere, as most offensive and defensive military assets are focused elsewhere with minimal flexibility as to what can be sent as a reactive force.


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## Ultra1 (Mar 10, 2011)

I'd love to see a loyalist come back, just cause i usually root for the good guys. i'd love for Guilliman to miraculously heal. i think his strategic expertise would help find a way to fend off the foes more efficiently.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Boc said:


> If Angron managed to lead another enormous army of Berserkers, I think it'd be the most likely to have major impact on the Imperium (in the "current time," that is). With all the other threats going on... Necrons, 'Nids, 13th Black Crusade, an infinitely pissed off daemon prince with thousands upon thousands of bloodthirsty Space Marines could wreak havoc pretty much anywhere, as most offensive and defensive military assets are focused elsewhere with minimal flexibility as to what can be sent as a reactive force.


I don't diagree with you.

The reason I didn't pick someone like Fulgrim though (my favourite Primarch) is because, like Angron, it's too singular.

Sure a Daemon Primarch at the head of 50,000 cult Marines would potentially cripple the Imperium even further, but it wouldn't be inclusive of the other three factions.

Magnus attacking Fenris with his Thousand Sons is a 'personal' story, and while I'd love Fulgrim and particularly the Emperor's Children to get some post-Heresy love, it would really only be 'their' tale.

Someone like Lorgar can have an impact beyond his particular Legion.

Although Perturabo and Dark Mechanicus Allies in search of some hidden technology would make for a great addition to 40k as well.


EDIT



Ultra1 said:


> I'd love to see a loyalist come back, just cause i usually root for the good guys. i'd love for Guilliman to miraculously heal. i think his strategic expertise would help find a way to fend off the foes more efficiently.


In terms of sheer narrative, I think a Loyalist returning would far ouweigh the Traitors. Abaddon has really filled the void of the Primarch's despite what most people think, but the Imperium could really be doing with even one Primarch returning. Guilliman would be definately interesting on a tactical and organizational level.

But maybe, someone like Vulkan, Corax or even Russ, someone who really admires 'humanity' and what the Imperium is emotionally about would be interesting, as Guilliman can be quite cold sometimes. It would just be interesting seeing how they would attempt to reform the Imperium, and whether or not they could meet a fate similar to those of a Dostoyevsky novel.


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## Tywin Lannister (Nov 17, 2011)

I'd agree that it would need to be a loyalist to make things interesting. A traitor would just be the Nth massive threat poised to sweep the Imperium away (and as D-A-C says Abbadon has the traitors covered), but a loyalist would shake things up. With Guilliman dead Lion is the greatest strategist, which would be handy, but I think Vulkan would be interesting as he actually cares about normal people...

Never gonna happen though.


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## stephen.w.langdon (Jan 1, 2012)

Tywin Lannister said:


> Never gonna happen though.


I don't know I think that it could happen, look at Warhammer they did bring in Valten, Exalted of Sigmar to bring more life to their big campaign why could they not do something like that in 40K as well

Remember they do not have to be a permanent part of the 40K universe just bring them back for a large worldwide campaign that they then disappear at the end of or something, would be an excellent way of selling a limited edition model and the fans would go crazy for them lol


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## Ultra1 (Mar 10, 2011)

i had originally thought someone like vulkan could be good since his expertise in making weapons could give the Imperium some pretty cool shit. but then i thought that even he couldn't make enough weapons to supply the quantity required to make a difference. that's kind of why i went with Guilliman. I think his contributions would be wider reaching. Not to mention the shear amount of successor chapters that would fall in line for him. i think he could command more instant loyalty from all the SM chapters than any other Primarch simply because they're from his Geneseed.

**Edit**
PS Ultramarines are the BEST!


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## oOChrisOo (Feb 14, 2012)

I woud want russ to come back at the head of the 13th great company fighting back the 13th black crusade, enabling the imperium to forge a better defensive position against them. To then vanish as quick as he came. I just think it would be really cool.

Who doesn't love space wolfs owning some chaos


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## jonileth (Feb 1, 2012)

To be perfectly honest, I'd like to see one of the two unknown Primarchs return. That, to me, would be the most interesting story. Since we don't know why they were banished, and what they were truly capable of. A unique twist to an already colorful grim dark world.


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## Silens (Dec 26, 2010)

Leman Russ, because it marks the beginning of the end times (Or some shit like that).

Apparently he was last heard saying that he will return during the end times, so he comes back and then you get ALL - OUT - WAR *epic voice*.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

D-A-C said:


> Hey everyone.
> 
> Just a simple question really, as we all know how popular 'what ifs' are:
> 
> ...


Well it would have to be a living primarch for sure, unless we get some primarch zombies up in this bitch.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

We can have the Lion wake up, we can have Vulkan or Khan return, we can have one of the Daemon Primarchs take a step forward. 

The biggest impact imo would be the Lion. There is a lot the Dark Angels could do with the return of their Primarch. Whether or not it would affect things such as Cypher or the secret I couldn't say because I'm not overly familiar with their story.


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## gridge (Feb 11, 2012)

The one I like most can never come back (barring a sanity-bending miracle)...that is Sanguinius. Out of those that could possibly return, I would want a loyalists since there are already plenty of traitor Primarchs still in action. You may not hear much about them, but that is still more than you hear about the Emperor's obedient children outside of the HH series. Guilliman would probably be my choice (yes, I know he is held at the moment of death in a stasis field but that's a whole different thread).


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## Imp Blackheart (Nov 29, 2010)

Honestly, I would like to see 1 of the Unknown's come back into the fold, or heck maybe even Dorn "reborn", or heck even Ferrus Manus ( last I remembered from the book, his body just dissipated, maybe a I read it wrong, or the body was absorbed by the sword, I dunno need to reread the series LOL ) But I think its high time that the Imperium has seen something return that was made by the emperor's own hands. The Heritics has legions upon legions of Living avatars from the heresy. But The Imperium, is lacking, and could use a monkey wrench tossed into the cog to liven things up! (psssst, maybe finally call out this redicculas BS of only allowing SM chapters to have 1000 marines and expand the chaters!! XD )


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

I think a Loyalist Primarch coming back and causing a major religious conflict (as I doubt the Inquisition would be thrilled!) would be an interesting idea. Any Primarch would obviously hate the way the Imperium has changed as it goes against the Emperor's teachings during the Great Crusade. 

Whilst a major internal conflict would weaken the Imperium and let threats like the Orks, Tau, Tyranids and Chaos spread, it could actually end up saving them from its slow death.

It could be similar to the historical Reformation, in terms of scale and effect. It could be a last throw of the dice to re-start the Emperor's vision. 

I think Dorn would have been best for this kind of role, but he is dead.

Or is he (dun, dun, duuuunn).....?


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

I'd actually like to see Russ make a re-appearance; His return wouldn't be as Imperium-breaking as that of good ol' Roboute, and GW can always have him wander off again for a few millenium after he drinks The Fang dry... 

Perhaps bring him AND Magnus back for a good ol' knock-down-drag-out fight/global 40k campaign?


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## MaxDemone (Feb 9, 2012)

I'd like to see Russ come back.
Like a huge battle going on, Space Wolves starting to lose ground then BOOM

Leman Fucking Russ up in this bitch.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

If one of the Primarchs came back he would bash Trazyn's skull in and free the other frozen Primarch. Kill two birds with one stone!


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

The only reason for not wanting a Loyalist Primarch to reappear would be the complete and utter focus of the game on that simple occurrence. The practicalities of life in the 40K universe wouldn't be changed that much in the first 100 years (at least) of the return of a primarch. On the other hand, the Council of Terra and every other major 40K institution would be focused 100% on that occurence and either recruiting, destroying, or kowtowing to the returned primarch.

All that being said, I think having the Lion reawaken would be pretty interesting. I don't see him as such a pro-Imperium character, as a pro-Imperium-is-Me type, spending the first 50-100 years organizing behind the scenes before being assured he could step into a predominant role, then going public.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Could happen like this. Primarch returns then leaves known space to save imperium from nid/daemons/necron, not expected to return for 1000s of years, but still alive though. Problem solved.


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

I wish Horus could come back with a control chip in his brain set to "EMPEROR = GOOD. EMPEROR = FRIEND." Kind of like a servitor (Servitor Horus... Servitorus?), but not quite as braindead. Since that's absolutely impossible, I agree with Serpion and say I'd like to see the Lion.


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

I think the only one that may return is Jaghatai Khan, as he's just pissing around in the webway. But it would probably be legion of the damned-esqe in such a way as 'Imperial garrison getting mashed by some form of webway using force' (DE or Eldar), 'Khan pops out of a conveniently placed portal, kicks some space elf butt, then dissapears, leaving the rest like WTF?'

Russ, Corax and Vulkan will probs all come back at the same time, with the Lion waking up and Guilliman decieding he's not really dead soon afterwards :/. Somehow I don't see Manus or Dorn coming back, and Sanguinius turns up as the Sanguinor from time to time already.


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## Sem'ael Elear (Nov 6, 2011)

Being a DA player myself I'd have originally said Lion, 1 because he's still alive and 2 because he's a tactical genious. That said with this question I have to go with Russ. I want to see him burst out of the warp, grab his Wolves, and mess stuff up. Guarantee others would follow

*edit*

Having said that if the Lion came back I see him waking up, seeing what happened to the Imperium, collecting his sons and his successors, busting Luthor out of prison, gaining all the support he can from other first founding chapters (as many of them stil hold more to their Primarchs than the "god-emperor") and leading a surgical strike on Terra. Heresy 2.0 Lion style


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

If a primarch returned hed be burned at the stake for being a blasphemer.

even if miraculously russ made it to fenris, the attentions of not only the traitor legions but monodomimants etc, and those chapters/factions who have prior beef/reasons for hatred against the wolves would see themselves banding together.

I really would not like to see the result between a gk/minotaur/possible black templar alliance, supported by storm troops, massed guard, and apocalypse weapons. magnus' intention was not to destroy the wolves homebase utterly, iirc, the use of world ending weapons to prevent the 'presumed' turning of the wolves would not be matter of sanction.

can you imagine the shit which would go down between the world if there was a second coming? think that but with 10km long battleships.


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## Akatsuki13 (May 9, 2010)

I want to see Alpharius and/or Omegon return, just to see how they can screw things up. Are they truly Traitors or are they in reality Loyalists posing as Traitors? Regardless of their allegiance you kind of tell what the other Primarchs would do if they returned but with the Last Primarch you just don't know. Hell they could be alive and operating in the current time and no one would know. That's actually kind of scary if you think about it.


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## Malochai (May 27, 2012)

I say that Leman Russ would be cool, seeing as he's in the Warp, and has been for millennia - his more intense (?) knowledge of Chaos could then be of use to the Imperium, as well as the fact his Chapter are pretty much space-vikings ... That's pretty awesome, no matter which way you slice it! However, as has ben said, he was last heard to say that he would return during the End Times ... 
Beyond that, the Lion does seem to be a pretty cool way to go, but I think that Guilliman would just add credence to the fact that 1) GW focus on Ultramarines and 2) he's probably the most focussed-upon primarch as it is. Fleshing out the stories of one others would be a much better way to go.


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

+1 for a returning (unknown) Primarch

preferably one that really pee's on the inquisitors bonfire =)


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Creed a tactical genius? Pfft. Bring on Jonson. Yep, I'm also going with the Lion for best celebrity come-back, with Whitney Houston making a shock appearance coming a close second.


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## bastex (Feb 13, 2011)

clearly the allfather leman russ all the wolves on fenris are pissed becouse grimnar puted on the no beer sign 

ok more serius now
leman russ should come back it would be the start of the end and would be the only primarch to actualy kick inqisition ass and come out on top 

leman russ is a sledge hammer he wrecks stuff . who would need to come back to fix what russ wrecked ?


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## Insanity (Oct 25, 2011)

Well we have Lion El'Jonson sleeping away waiting for something to happen, would be interesting to see what finally awakes him. Perhaps one of the Traitor Primarchs comes back and that awakens him?


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

Angron came back and that didnt wake him..


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## tabbytomo (Aug 12, 2008)

The soul of the night haunter contained in the form of a daemon-warhound. that would likely stir the lion..


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

From the point of view of both a SW fanboi and a not-SW fanboi, i think Russ or the Lion would cause the biggest stir, considering that both of them were master tacticians, and both would be equally unimpressed with the state of the imperium. As for the whole GK/ Minotaur / BT alliance to wipe out fenris, it is widely stated that Fenris is the most heavily fortified world outside of Cadia and Terra, i can't imagine their ships would last too long in orbit once their intentions were clear. Also, I can't imagine the Grey Knights would have an easy time taking down a non-daemon Psycho Primarch who's home planet is being threatened, no matter how many Draigos they have.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Khan or Corax or Vulkan, one of the Primarchs not that prominent, I'd be bored if one of the big three returned.


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## Yllib Enaz (Jul 15, 2010)

Zombie Ferrus Manus on a quest to find his head


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

redmapa said:


> Angron came back and that didnt wake him..


So the guys a heavy sleeper...... :laugh:

I'm going to have to tip my cap to the Lion. But only if some funky doings with the Cabal were worked into it. :wink:


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## revan4559 (Aug 9, 2010)

I would like the lion to come back as in some older fluff it is said he would lead the Imperium into a crusade that would have achievements to surpass the emperors great crusade. But he is more likely to wake up, walking around the rock with all the dark angels bowing and trying to get his attention before saying: "shush, need coffee. Deal with this mess lately and I have the big bang theory to watch"


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I'd like to think that the loyalist primarchs have not returned because they know it would be better to be in hiding than to draw the attention of the Daemon Prince Primarchs. The Imperium would be screwed if they came back. Last loyalist primarch known to be alive was killed by Fulgrim; a daemon prince.

As far as the traitor primarchs, the Daemon Princes are pretty much doing the same old thing, and thinking the affairs of mortals are of no importance to them. It would take one of their brothers to bring some kind of rivalry back into their blood flow.

It's a cool idea, but I guess I would like Dorn to be discovered alive somewhere and Perturabo rising from his throne of misery. I would like to see a crusade against Perturabo's armies.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Hell, with the guilty feelings of some of the Demon Primarchs, like Fulgrim and Magnus, it'd be interesting seeing the 13th Black Crusade finally break out from Cadia only to have a reformed primarch crawl right up the crusades rear.

My biggest disappointment with the Heresy Primarchs is how one-dimensional they become following conversion. These are nigh-on godlike beings, so throw off those shackles and kick some ass! We can then enjoy watching the Inquisition, Ecclisiarchy, and all the other Imperial institutions go ballistic trying to love or hate the reformed primarch.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

Akatsuki13 said:


> I want to see Alpharius and/or Omegon return, just to see how they can screw things up.


What makes you think he ever left? I am Alpharius. :crazy:


I think a good compromise would be to just reveal the location of a Primarch, but not necessarily bring him "back to life". Let's say, for instance, that BL does a book about Inquisitor Valeria's little incursion into Solemnace, Trazyn the Infinite's museum world. In there, she sees the "giant of a man clad in baroque power armor" and it turns out to be Vulkan. Does she tell anyone? No. The knowledge that a Primarch existed and could be returned to the Imperium would cause a massive upheaval, and Emperor forbid the Salamanders ever find out that the Inquisition knew where their Primarch was and didn't tell them. Or worse, they find out anyways and free him themselves.

Just establishing within the 40k universe that a Primarch's whereabouts are known, but that he has to stay where he is for the "good of the Imperium" would be awesome as well as rage-inducing.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Yeah that would be a great idea! I don't know if it's just me but atm I'm loving the pre-40k history but even though it's a progression, 40k really feels a great deal different to universe of 30k, so much so to me it barely connects I'd love it if they merged them a bit more, like the way ADB does with his night lords series which really melds the two together.


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## stevey293 (Aug 16, 2011)

they dont need some dafty who got themself lost for 10000 years! they need to get out of this technology is as far as we want it to go mindset and start learning from the bad guys they kill. rip their kit apart see how it works and improve their own based on that.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

stevey293 said:


> they dont need some dafty who got themself lost for 10000 years! they need to get out of this technology is as far as we want it to go mindset and start learning from the bad guys they kill. rip their kit apart see how it works and improve their own based on that.


**BLAM* HERESY! *


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## TheOnlySaneObliterator (May 3, 2012)

I would like for Perturabo (IronWarriors for those who don't know) to return. His return would be just freaking glorious because it would be revealed after years of planning and positioning. Just remember the Battle of the Iron Cage. If he managed to single-daemond-clawedly bring a Legion (for the Imperial Fists were still a Legion at the time) to the brink of extiction, what could he do with the backing of the entire CSM forces? Granted it would take a masterful show of force and tactical genius (maybe blow up the Cadia Gate?) to unite the other Chapters behing him, but he could devise such a plan easy. Hell, he's been on (In?) Medrenguard for 10,000 years, he's probably got 100s of those kinds of plans.

Just one question? Why just *ONE* primarch? According to the 40k timelin the Impirum is in the age known as the Time of Ending? Why can't we finish off the age with the return of all the Daemon-Primarchs and all the missing Loyalist Primarchs? One hell of a battle awaits...


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## Malochai (May 27, 2012)

TheOnlySaneObliterator said:


> Just one question? Why just *ONE* primarch? According to the 40k timelin the Impirum is in the age known as the Time of Ending? Why can't we finish off the age with the return of all the Daemon-Primarchs and all the missing Loyalist Primarchs? One hell of a battle awaits...


I _think_ the question is _basically_ saying, if only one could come back, and you could choose, which one would it be and why.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

TheOnlySaneObliterator said:


> I would like for Perturabo (IronWarriors for those who don't know) to return. His return would be just freaking glorious because it would be revealed after years of planning and positioning. Just remember the Battle of the Iron Cage. If he managed to single-daemond-clawedly bring a Legion (for the Imperial Fists were still a Legion at the time) to the brink of extiction, what could he do with the backing of the entire CSM forces? Granted it would take a masterful show of force and tactical genius (maybe blow up the Cadia Gate?) to unite the other Chapters behing him, but he could devise such a plan easy. Hell, he's been on (In?) Medrenguard for 10,000 years, he's probably got 100s of those kinds of plans.
> 
> Just one question? Why just *ONE* primarch? According to the 40k timelin the Impirum is in the age known as the Time of Ending? Why can't we finish off the age with the return of all the Daemon-Primarchs and all the missing Loyalist Primarchs? One hell of a battle awaits...


Couple of corrections here.

1. Rogal Dorn wanted the Iron Cage Incident to Occur

2. The Imperial Fists where a Chapter at this stage, according to the Imperial Fists article the Black Templars and Crimson Fists had already been created since it stated the Imperial Fists sat back and allowed their successors to take over.


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## TheOnlySaneObliterator (May 3, 2012)

Oh... Sorry, I was under the impression that the chapters were created AFTER the ICI. 

My bad. 

Still, I don't think Dorn actually intended for his legion/chapter to get so butchered by the Iron Warriors. I mean what kind of commander would INTENTIONALLY get almost all of his men killed just to get almost all of his men killed. 

Sounds to me like someone should have given Dorn a swift punch to the head to wake him the frak up.


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## Rhaven357 (May 23, 2012)

I know the question is which "ONE" of the primarchs would you like to see return, but I think that both Leman Russ and Lion El'Johnson would make a great story. Two brothers who respect each other but have wildly differing philosophies. Both would be horrified at the current state of the Imperium's leadership. The story of their struggle to return the Imperium to the course set by the Emperor, while struggling to work together without explosive violence would be AWESOME! Plus Russ is the shizniggits. 

As an aside I'd also really like to finally see the Dark Angles secret come to light so they could actually get something done about it. This secret war they're fighting would benifit from having some light shed on it.


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## Rhaven357 (May 23, 2012)

But to answer the question. If only one then Russ all the way. The Fenryka Vlkya are the only loyal legion left. Granted a little under strength but still holding true to their founders vision.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

TheOnlySaneObliterator said:


> Oh... Sorry, I was under the impression that the chapters were created AFTER the ICI.
> 
> My bad.
> 
> ...


He did it as a penance for his perceived failure to protect the Emperor aboard Horus's ship. He wanted to use the Iron Cage as a sort of massive pain glove that the Imperial Fists tend to use as penance. A normal pain glove is a fully enclosed suit that basically electrifies the wearer at extreme levels. Dorn kind of lost it after the Emperor fell, out of all the surviving Primarchs I'd say he took it the hardest.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> He did it as a penance for his perceived failure to protect the Emperor aboard Horus's ship. He wanted to use the Iron Cage as a sort of massive pain glove that the Imperial Fists tend to use as penance. A normal pain glove is a fully enclosed suit that basically electrifies the wearer at extreme levels. Dorn kind of lost it after the Emperor fell, out of all the surviving Primarchs I'd say he took it the hardest.


While I do not doubt that Dorn used the Iron Cage incident as penance, I don't think it's quite accurate to say it's what he wanted. Yes, Dorn knew going into the Cage that many of his men would die, and he accepted that. But he also thought that the Cage represented Perturabo's final stand. He was willing to sacrifice his legion (or at least large numbers of them) because he believed he would be obtaining a worthwhile victory. Sacrifice for a purpose, not just for its own sake. In this respect Dorn was wrong, and Perturabo trolled him well and good. 

And now, to put the post back on topic. I would love to see Curze return to prove, once and for all, that their really is a papier-mâché head conspiracy at work here. 

Seriously though, I'd rather not see any of them return. In my mind the Primarchs all (or rather, just the loyalists ones (and Curze)) knowingly and purposefully removed themselves. I don't think that any of them truly thought they would ever return. They gave their lives in defense of the Emperor's vision, perhaps even knowing that it was doomed to fail. Them returning I would view not as a triumphant return but as a weakening of the dramatic impact their deaths had.


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