# Lord Cypher the Fallen Angel



## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

i just wanted to open a thread for people the theorize about cypher and his origins. we all know that the name cypher was a title but who could the marine be? i think its most likely zahariel from descent of angels, dont know why i just do.


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## Falsegods (Jun 9, 2008)

I remember reading in a White Dwarf a number of years ago that Cypher was there during the destruction of Caliban, and saw at least part of the Duel between the Lion and Luther. I think the last set of rules for him has him carrying what is either the Lion Sword or its fragments. 

I believe, though it is very possible I am grossly wrong, that he was Luther's XO, and that he is the de facto leader of a number of Luther's former followers who are working to an as of yet unknown goal.


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

yeah but apparently every time he appears although he causes strife the imperium always emerges stronger. i dont think hes the leader per say more like a saviour who could redeem the fallen in the imperium's eyes. at least the ones following him.


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## CallumM27 (Mar 20, 2008)

I think hes that zahariel guy too. Makes sence really, it explains why he gets away all the time being an experience psyker and using the warp to jump around. Plus he was close to both luther and the lion and was there at the final battle.


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## The Lions Sword (May 16, 2008)

The Lord Cypher was an honory roll given to a member of the Order to uphold all the rituals and traditions of the Order. That in turn carried over into the DA when they were found by the emperor. it is also said that he was there watching the Lion and Luther duke it out against each other. After the battle its said that the watchers in the dark had him choose between two swords, lion el johnsons sword or luthers sword, and by deciding as such would determine the fate of the DA. Going off of that there is a short story written in Galaxy in Flames that follows a DA chaplain who goes searching for a last sword. he recieved this information from a Fallen Angel that he interrogated. Turns out the sword was Luthers sword not the Lions. So.....that would mean that Cypher has the Lions sword and is going about the galaxy waiting until the final battle to return the Lion his sword. here is a great website that details some of this.....http://fortressofunforgiven.homestead.com/CH06_04Lib_003_A.html


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## plug (Feb 22, 2008)

But who are the watchers? I'm still reading the book at the moment but at the moment I think cypher is Zahariel. What is Cyphers aims. 
1. To head to Tera to kill the emperor so he can reborn and distroy chaos
or
2. He is going to Terra to seek forgiveness for the fallen
Could be either or both or something else.
I've looked at the website Fortress of the unforgivern and it is the best D.A site I've seen


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

The watchers arent really explained to thouroughly in the book. info is limited but zahariel encounters one of them before or after he kills the last calibanite lion. I think they were like guardians or somthin?


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## rgw (Jan 29, 2008)

What if the Lion held his Legion from reaching Terra in order to play it safe and see who would win (or maybe waiting for both sides to destroy eachother and he have the last strong legion). Maybe the "fallen" on Caliban were really trying to leave to aid the Emperor, and after the battle between Luther and the Lion, the "fallen" got spread out in the warp.

Now Cypher seeks to return the blade to the side of the Emperor like the Lion refused to do during the heresy, therefore fulfilling the legion's loyalty to the Emperor. That would explain why the fallen are hunted, because they would cast light as to what the Dark Angels really did.

This idea was in a thread a while ago, tried to get the basic idea of it.


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## The Lions Sword (May 16, 2008)

The watchers in the dark are creatures of some form from another time and or space. They also accompany high ranking leaders of the unforgiven. They ALSO have the Lion in stasis at the very heart of the Rock and no one knows he is there except for the watchers, so my guess would be that they are guardians of some form. Zahariel isnt Cypher.......if you continue reading the book it goes on to explain that after he was initiated into the order a new Lord Cypher was chosen, which was not him. I believe to some degree that Cypher is really trying to get to the Emperor to show his loyalty to him because of what Luther did. I also believe that when he does finally reach him that the Lion will return and all of the Fallen will then be purged for there purgatory and disloyalty


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## Iron Within (Mar 15, 2008)

rgw said:


> What if the Lion held his Legion from reaching Terra in order to play it safe and see who would win (or maybe waiting for both sides to destroy eachother and he have the last strong legion). Maybe the "fallen" on Caliban were really trying to leave to aid the Emperor, and after the battle between Luther and the Lion, the "fallen" got spread out in the warp.
> 
> Now Cypher seeks to return the blade to the side of the Emperor like the Lion refused to do during the heresy, therefore fulfilling the legion's loyalty to the Emperor. That would explain why the fallen are hunted, because they would cast light as to what the Dark Angels really did.
> 
> This idea was in a thread a while ago, tried to get the basic idea of it.


That is awesome. The idea of such a conspiracy really would be a reason for the DA to be so secretive.


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

great conspiracy i love the idea


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## CallumM27 (Mar 20, 2008)

The Lions Sword said:


> Zahariel isnt Cypher.......if you continue reading the book it goes on to explain that after he was initiated into the order a new Lord Cypher was chosen, which was not him.


Who said he was kept after the legion was found the lion. Over the course of the crusade he may have died as well if he was there or he may even have lost his tital when the order was lost. The cypher out there may be just using the name cos he knows the original is long dead and knows that the dark angels will know the importance of the name from the legions past. Sort of a twisted tactic  lol plus Cypher is famed for his gun wielding skills, when reading the book Zahariel is know to be one of the best shots in his group as well as having the famous quad-barreled pistol wielded by his ideal(can remember the name.)


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## plug (Feb 22, 2008)

Had a thought about the watchers. Could they be connected to the Cabel from legion in some way? 
What I think about the Cypher topic is that what ever viewpoint you put forward, there is a compelling argument against it. Also, what is the power that looks after him. Could it be chaos or the watchers or something else?
If Cypher is not Zahariel, he must be a senior member of the order. This also poses the question, what happend to Zahariel? Is he one of the fallen?


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## CallumM27 (Mar 20, 2008)

In legion at the end the cabal say that they tried to talk to the dark angels first because they are the first legion but thought they were to involved in the crusade to make a difference. That is why the cabal then tried the youngest of the legions hoping the alpha legion had an open mind to their plans  so personally I think the watchers were sent by the cabal to watch the dark angels and study their actions to see if they would side with chaos.


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## Brother Anubus (Feb 26, 2008)

it can't be Zahariel beacuse it said that he did not aprove of what Luther did when the aliens came on the ship with the bomb and if he was Lord Cypher then he would not have tried to stop the boom.


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## Bloody Templar (Jun 13, 2008)

I think the Emperor protects him as he knows the real reason and has been protecting him from the start. As the Emperor sits longer and longer on the Golden Toitet he becomes increasingly distracted and less caring for the world, shown by his increasing decay. Cypher has some part to play in the future or lack there of of the Imperium. Perhaps the Illuminati know this and bide their time.


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## SpaNNerZ (Jun 17, 2008)

Just a question 
has anyone actually got his Profile for the actual game 
because I have the model and I would love to be able to field him(with the opponents permission of course).
If so cheers
Because after all he is such a vibrant and old character with so much storyline behind him.

peace out:victory:


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## rgw (Jan 29, 2008)

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5793

I go looking out on the wide wide web, only to find that Heresy has it taken care of.


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## SpaNNerZ (Jun 17, 2008)

Thanks Mate 
I had looked on the web too and I never checked the heresy one, thought it mite have been someone asking the same question.
lol 
thanks again

peace out:victory:


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## The Lions Sword (May 16, 2008)

Here are some more up to date rules for cypher....making him not so much as a powerhouse. He also does not have the C'Tan Knife anymore.


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## The Lions Sword (May 16, 2008)

sorry forgot the link http://fortressofunforgiven.homestead.com/CH01_02CoU_02SpC_05.html..........this is honestly ive found to be the absolute best site for background fluff for the Unforgiven.


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## CallumM27 (Mar 20, 2008)

Brother Anubus said:


> it can't be Zahariel beacuse it said that he did not aprove of what Luther did when the aliens came on the ship with the bomb and if he was Lord Cypher then he would not have tried to stop the boom.


It also says over the course of the crusade luther persaded an entire generation of marines agains the Lion for leaving them to rot. Also it says Zahariel felt hard done by for saving his father but being left out of the war, that can change a man alot mate. No one knows who Cypher is these are just speculations and it would be understandable if it was Zahariel


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## plug (Feb 22, 2008)

CallumM27 said:


> Also it says Zahariel felt hard done by for saving his father but being left out of the war, that can change a man alot mate. No one knows who Cypher is these are just speculations and it would be understandable if it was Zahariel


When put like that it dos make sense, but so do the arguments against it. The mystery deepens


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## Brother Anubus (Feb 26, 2008)

Yea i forgot about that so, well, crap. I guess we will never know...well untill GW tells us...and that might be a while.


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