# Lascannon Predator vs Razorback



## Shaffar (Nov 27, 2012)

I just tried to tweak my list for mechanized Dark Angel (no, no bikes) and had this really weird idea - predator with single lascannon seems really overpriced for what he does. I can literally upgrade every rhino to razorback with lascannon (same as predator one - twin-linked) with conversion rate 1 predator to 2 lascannons razorbacks. Is a predator really worth it in 1000 points game? I can have much more needed anti armor firepower and even though predator AV is amazing it comes with a big price for 1000 points game.

I would ask for some opinions.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

I'd personaly say, go with the razorbacks.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Depends what the rest of your force is.


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## Shaffar (Nov 27, 2012)

Vaz said:


> Depends what the rest of your force is.


5 Tactical squads (5 men), Whirlwind and Jetfighter.
If i get predators i'll have to either kick the whirlwind or get only 4 squads.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

...why would you take a Predator with a single lascannon (or a single twin-linked lascannon) and not buy the same Predator sponson lascannons? Having 3 lascannon shots (one twin-linked) for only a moderate step up in points is much better than having a full-cost 1-lascannon Pred for almost as much a price.

I'd go for las/plas Razorbacks with your 5-man tacticals, though, honestly.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Whirlwinds tend to suffer. S5, AP4, allows cover doesn't hit as hard as you'd really like. I would honestly like to see a S6 AP3 blast, and S5 AP4 no cover, which would make it actually damn useful. But, it's not. it's why in Codex Marines, Thunderfire Cannons just outclass it for not much more points.

And the jetfighters from a competitive point of view... yeah, they really suck as well, I'm sorry to say. It's hard with Dark Angels to recommend a force which people enjoy using models that they like, because they are unfortunately just so poor, and out competed by the tons of other armies out there which can do what they do, but better - White Scars for Ravenwing, Iron Hands for Land Raider Spam, Wolf Guard/Grey Knights for Terminator Spam, basic marines for flyers, Imperial Fists for Bolter spam...

Are your tac squads equipped with Lascannons? That's possibly the best way to equip them, as you get 3 lascannons for the price of a single Razorback TL Lascannon. As Mossy says, Triplas is the most cost effective way of running LasPreds, so I'd say go for that. 

You also have virtually no armour worthwhile shooting at - so taking either Lasbacks or Laspreds is going to turn a couple of hundred points of an opponents dedicated AT pointing at your single AV13 vehicle, and turn it into slag 1 turn later. I'd maybe pick up some Deathwing instead with Chainfists and Assault Cannon, and drop the Whirlwind and have them Deathwing Assault behind the enemy vehicles, making sure you hit their AP2 blast weapons ASAP in the vulnerable rear.


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## Shaffar (Nov 27, 2012)

Wait what? Deathwing? They are ridiculously expensive. I dont like them - everytime i fielded anything close to terminator (although i played chaos...) they were just completely useless. I agree with lascannon with plasma. Problem with lascannon on dudes is that i often need to move so one more turn of not shooting my pricey guns. I just dont know what to do anymore. Chaos is either you play in 3 ways or lose, dark angels are often subpar to normal marines and i dont know how to run normal space marines cause every HQ is bullshit and either you throw quarter of your point into him or he is useless...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

That is the downsides to Footlas. But if you deploy properly (you have 5 squads! You should be deploying with LoS to the target vehicles anyway!), you should have less movement to do.

Terminators - AP2 is harder to come across. Deep Striking them in the rear of the enemy lines is going to cause some consternation. Deathwing, Assault Cannon and 2 Chainfists is 250pts. Expensive yes. But most opponents shouldn't have more than a single vehicle with a blast AP2 weapon which you should be able to take out with a Rending Assault Cannon shot to Rear AV 10-11, if it's not already dead as a result of the Lascannons targeting it.

They can then proceed to tank.

HQ's at 1000 points, unless they're massive positive game changers like Be'lakor or Kairos shouldn't really be expensive - so keeping them cheap is the key. You've not got a massive infantry combat unit, so Interrogator Chaplains aren't that brilliant here. Meanwhile, a ML2 Librarian is 100pts, and can sit in a squad and still be reasonably useful, not needing any more equipment. That's 350pts.

5x5 with Lascannon is 450pts, putting you at 800, leaving you with a further 200 points to spend - such as a Command Squad with Meltaguns in a Drop Pod (175), or Ravenwing with 2 Meltaguns and a MM Attack bike (155), Triplas Pred (140), or 2 LasPlas Razorbacks (175), or Devastators with Las (170), or a Vindicator (125). If you drop a Tac Squad, you can take another Deathwing Squad, which is 250, in return for 90pts, leaving you 40pts for other things.

Jetfighters, costing 180pts is overcosted. S6 AP4 missiles? Seriously? It has a TL lascannon which can help it take on vehicles, and that's it.

And now you've come to the problem of playing Dark Angels. In regards to playing Space Marines, I've never found their HQ's bullshit. It always used to be just take White Scars and have fun with your 3+ Jink Save Objective Secured Grav Gun bikes and get into an assault ASAP, and Hit and Run away.


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## Shaffar (Nov 27, 2012)

First off - Jetfighter with twin-linked lascannon is even more shit than a jetfighter with avenger mega bolter...
Second - I like librarians and dark angels one (even simple 65 points one) is a miles away from any support HQ in vanilla space marines. Why? Divination is just that good. Space marines librarian is just worse and so is captain or even chapter master... SM is just an army that you stick a useless character because rules told you to.

Bikes - Oh yeah and dont get anyone to play you cause you grabbed a fucking nurgle bikers ONCE...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

The fuck are you chatting about? Calm the fuck down.


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## Shaffar (Nov 27, 2012)

I'm talking about my "fun" times when i fielded nurgle centered list with bikes as chaos player... Reactions to that spoke for themselves.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Eh, Nurgle Bikers are hardly the creme these days. Metas evolve.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Neither would be the option I choose. At this point if I am playing any power armor force, I use droppods, deepstriking terminators and out flanking bikes to get down field fast. Maybe toss in a flyer also if I have the points. The hull points annoy me too much, I would rather use those points to put more models on the table.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

I'd go TLLC Razorback, though all Marine armies can be very hard to deal with.


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