# Heavy Destroyers, to use or not to use



## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Good afternoon gentlemen and ladies. I would like to encourage some debate on the effectiveness of hvy versus std destroyers. My personal view is that hvy dest's are not as efficient as the std destroyer. With the points cost difference per unit, 15, the extra points could be spent on anything else to increase po totals.

Assuming a squad of 3 hvy dest's - 195 pts compared to 3 std dest's - 150 pts. What are we really getting for the extra 45 pts ? The hvy gauss cannon s9 ap2 weapon is still h1. Compared to the gauss cannon s6 ap4 h3. The rate of fire of the gauss cannon is 3 x the hvy version. Albeit the strength and ap variance, both weapons have the same chance to hit 2/3 of the time. I would prefer a barrage of shots compared to a 1/3 with the hvy gauss cannon.

From a statistical point of view, with the above unit sizes in mind, the hvy gauss cannon will hit 2/3 of the time with 2 hits on ave. The gauss cannon will also hit 2/3 with 6 hits on ave. Assuming marine targets with t4 we still both wound on 2+. The only advantage the hvy gauss may have is damage to vehicles with s9, but both cannons still glance on 6+ on ap roll any way ! I would prefer the multiple shot option as most decent armour still ranges from 12+ which still requires the hvy to roll a 4+ at least, remembering 2 hits and now a 1/2 chance of the 4+ req.

Any hows have a think and let me know. If you can make me see the error of my folly or I have converted you over to the dark side of the force so much the better.

Dizzington esq :biggrin:


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I'm no Necron player, but from what I understand the main reason for taking Heavy Destroyers isn't to take out tanks but to deal with those few targets that the rest of the army struggles so much with - Monstrous Creatures with good armor saves and high Toughness like Wraithlords and Carnifexes and troops with good armor like Terminators. Many a Necron player has found themselves on the receiving end of a unit of Terminators _Deep Striking_ close in and causing havoc.


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## pyroanarchist (Feb 29, 2008)

I would have to agree with Katie here. While I see your point, I think it is almost essential to run at least 1 squad of 3 hvy destroyers in a Necron army. There are some units that Necrons just have a hard time with in general, and facing those units a squad of hvy destroyers will save you a lot of hassle.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Agreed... I use no heavy destroyers or destroyers in my army, and the lack is felt.


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## Deceiver (Sep 19, 2007)

Gauss wpns wound on a 6 as well. so a sqd of warriors don't have to worry so much. Can use normal destroyers to shoot up terminators and mc's as good as or better than hvy destroyers. Typically a sqd of 3 hvy with 3 shots will do 2 wounds. 3 Normal with 9 shots wll do 3 wounds.


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## Lemartes (Dec 16, 2007)

Heavy are AP 2 though and ignore the Terminator Armour, so you're left with a invul.

Destroyers on the other hand leave the Marine player with the 2+ save.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

This is not an Army List. Moved to tactics


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Galahad said:


> This is not an Army List. Moved to tactics


*headdesks* I'm so embarrassed. I should have spotted that.


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## Insanity101 (Jan 13, 2008)

Most of the competitive lists I see don't use hvy destroyers. They only use 2 units of std destroyers. Anything like MCs and Termis are gaused to death at point blank range from the 3 squads of warriors and the Monolith.


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

So you would expect to see more hvy's in an apocalypse match perhaps ? As for temies even the lowly monolith would be able to deal with them or a lord with/with out warscythe in cc and both provide other advatages. Once again it depends on the pts game you are playing. I cannot see using a lith in a match with less then 1250 pts.


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## retardonice (Jan 1, 2008)

Actually Liths Cant Deal With Termies, Blast Is Ap 3, Hole Is The Ap1 Section So You Have 1 Invul Save That They Get To Take With Usually 3-5 2+ Armour Saves. When Fighting Tyranids Is The Only Reason To Bring The Heavies, Kinda Sad When 60 Rapid Fire Warriors Only Do 2-3 Wounds To The Carni, Then Gets Charged And Sits There, Also The Flying Tyrant Can Be Pretty Nasty, But Is Wounded By The Regular Destoyers Semi-well


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

I think I may be getting the picture. On the weekend I played a 750 pt game against eldar and this t8 monster was just about untouchable by any thing except my std destroyers, who still had a hard time wounding it. I had to leave a unit of warriors with lord in tow to hold him down and keep him stuck. Won the game though.


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## Bectron (Feb 23, 2008)

*Meta-call*

I think the main thing to consider, when deciding whether to run Heavy Destroyers, is the local meta-game that each Necron player faces.
It isn't really just the matter of "it rocks/it sucks." There are costs and benifits to weigh, as there are in many unit choices. "Do I expect to see a lot of units w/ 2+ saves?" "Is it worth potentially not running a Monolith so I can run them in redundancy?" "If I run Heavy Destroyers, can I still run standard Necron Destroyers?" "Again, is that a sacrifice I can live with?"

You also have your Phase Out# to consider, and if it might be more important to have more bodies on the field. As I have said, many considerations..

I, personally, try to run 2 units of 3 and a monolith in the standard game where points allow. <usually 2000pts. +>

But that's just one vampiric Star-God's opinion..

:mrgreen:


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## Triumph Of Man (Dec 27, 2007)

Considering the expected change to the vehicle damage table in 5th ed, Heavy Destroyers will see an increase in use due to the regular Destroyers, Warriors, and Immortals becoming far less effective at anti tank.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Currently destroyer spam, with 12 or 15 destroyers in a 1500 point list, is fairly effective and some armies have trouble dealing with it. That's going to change when they can't destroy armoured vehicles though.

I would guess that necron army configuration will change a lot in 5th and I'm not sure what will be effective. Killing tanks is going to require either heavy destroyers or monoliths. I think that actually the liths will probably be the better option, since they are also so damn hard to kill.

To be honest I think that necrons might just be a weak army in 5th. The new assault rules are going to see necron units getting wiped out in assault on a regular basis, and that's going to cause phase outs. I don't really see how a necron army could hope to win vs something like double lash.


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Load up on scarabs, you can't go wrong...


Did I mention I like scarabs :biggrin:


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## Alexander_67 (May 5, 2007)

Completely not worth their points (for the moment) while the gauss rule still applies. Normal destroyers can waste any vehicle with better odds than a heavy.


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## Arkhand (May 13, 2008)

the standard destroyers are better in my opinion, three gauss shots each can eat the heaviest of tanks, their only fall-down is against terminators and similiar, where the 2+ save will soak up mich of the damage. Personally leave any terminators to my pariahs and lord... mince:laugh:


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## kungfoomasta (May 8, 2008)

generally i face alot of nids and marines so i take a few in my army. its just so much easier when the carnies dont get theit save or i can take out temies at range rather than trying to beat them at combat. ultimatly though Std destroyers will ignore the Armor save of most armies and make them seem more effective. 

as for scarabs i love them to. turbo boosted across the field and annoyed the hell out of a nid army. 90% couldnt take more than 2in of movement cus i was right in his face by then and a scarab somehow managed to survive lol. so i just tore him apart with Std destroyers while my 3 Hvy destroyers had time to pick off his zoanthrope, 2 carnifexes, and hive tyrant


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Yeah, against 4+ saves they really come into their own. I have enjoyed massive success against nids with my destroyers. Two squads blowing the dna out of them with not many saves. Tyrant and carnies are lord with warscythe fodder and hope he doesn't take the toughness upgrade, ouch.

Played a 1k game against nids last weekend and the nid player just about died when my two destroyers squads killed all 12 stealers in one round. He told me after that he had spent 400 pts on that one squad, what a bonehead...


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## ketchup414 (Mar 13, 2008)

Hard choice, but I would say that the thing to do is use STD Destroyers to whizz around the battlefield and use a Nightbringers lightning arc for that S9 AP2 fire power! A bit expensive but I think the NB is great!:grin:


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