# Beyond the Milky Way



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Have other galaxies ever been mentioned in 40k? (besides the fact that Tyranids are not native to the Milky Way)

Has any race/faction in 40k ever traveled beyond the Milky Way or even shown interest in doing so? Is Warp travel too slow for intergalactic distances?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

IIRC Imperial probes discovered Greenskins had spread to areas beyond the Milky Way galaxy. 

_Codex: Necrons_ also talks a lot about the _"universe"_ rather than the _"galaxy"_ which may imply their influence spread (far) beyond the Milky Way at one point.

And as you mentioned, the Tyranids are an extragalactic threat.

Aside from that (as far as im aware) other galaxies have not been mentioned. But regardless, they are far beyond Imperial reach and influence.


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## Tzeen Qhayshek (May 4, 2010)

I feel like I remember reading once that Warp travel was not possible outside of the Milky Way. I could be completely making that up.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

It is yet another inconsistancy in the fluff. Some references talk about how there is no time or distance in the warp. Other sources (most of them) talk about warp travel as though further distance requires more time. 

The one crossover explanation that I've seen is that the actual warp jumps take no time, but the maneuvering required between jumps can take months or even years. In order to jump from one spot to another, through the warp, the navigator must have a psychic point of reference for the destination.

Since no human ships have travelled beyond the galaxy and setup any kind of jump reference, it would be near impossible to accurately warp jump the distance.

If you like this sort of thing, check out a book called, "Forever War" by Joe Haldeman.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I don't think that the jumps take longer the further you go, rather it is that the longer you stay in the warp the greater the time dislocation you might suffer. After all, you could travel across the galaxy in a day if the warp-time went the right way. And I think that's the crux of it right there; inside your ship a long jump takes a long time, but it's what time's passing outside that would determine how long the jump took. So, from a certain point of view, there isn't any time in the warp but there is- it _is_ the warp after all!
As for outside the galaxy, from what I've picked up the warp _does_ continue on throughout the universe, but outside of our galaxy it becomes completely calm thus stopping warp travel. Sentient life is required to give the warp its turbulence, through its emotional turmoil. Which raises the question are the Chaos gods confined only to this galaxy, or are they connected to all galaxies in some way that transcends the immaterium?

GFP


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Some things man is not meant to know... 

As far as canon goes, there is nothing beyond what has already been said.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Tzeen Qhayshek said:


> I feel like I remember reading once that Warp travel was not possible outside of the Milky Way. I could be completely making that up.





jaysen said:


> Since no human ships have travelled beyond the galaxy and setup any kind of jump reference, it would be near impossible to accurately warp jump the distance..


Navigators refuse to go beyond out galaxy cause the light of the astronomica ends at the edge of our galaxy. To actually jump it takes minutes, Blood Reaver.


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## Machiavellismx (Sep 11, 2011)

As long as you 'follow' the light of the Astronomica / have a point of reference to where you are going, it takes minutes. When you become lost in the warp, that's when the time goes astray.

In the warp, time does not follow a steady straight path as it does in reality. It's more like an ocean or the eye of a storm, swirling around without any logic or reason. The Astronomica is like a safety rope in this storm, as long as you follow and hold on, you'll be ok.

In Blood Reaver during warp travel, the Navigator almost loses control of her ship at the start of the jump and they begin to 'fall' (that's how its described) in the warp, away from the Astronomica. However she regains control quick enough to follow the light of the Astronomica and continue travelling.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Which raises the question are the Chaos gods confined only to this galaxy, or are they connected to all galaxies in some way that transcends the immaterium?


The warp being a seperate dimension would suggest itself that it couldn't just be confined to the Milky Way doesn't it? Aside from that we know that other life at least has existed in other galaxies (as proved by the existence of the Tyranids and evidence of a Greenskin presence beyond the Milky Way) which would also support the notion that the warp isn't confined to the Milky Way. 



locustgate said:


> Navigators refuse to go beyond out galaxy cause the light of the astronomica ends at the edge of our galaxy.


It doesn't even stretch to the Eastern Fringe, let alone the edge. 



Machiavellismx said:


> In Blood Reaver during warp travel, the Navigator almost loses control of her ship at the start of the jump and they begin to 'fall' (that's how its described) in the warp, away from the Astronomica. However she regains control quick enough to follow the light of the Astronomica and continue travelling.


IIRC wasn't Octavia taught to navigate without using the Astronomican?


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## Machiavellismx (Sep 11, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> IIRC wasn't Octavia taught to navigate without using the Astronomican?


She was raised as part of a lesser aristocratic navigator family, her training surely would have included using the Astronomicon? I don't recall it being mentioned in any detail. Her training isn't that important though to the point that during the events of Blood Reaver she uses the Astronomicon as a guide when they use warp travel - when she loses control of the ship for the few seconds its touch-and-go and she desperately clings to the sight of it.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Machiavellismx said:


> She was raised as part of a lesser aristocratic navigator family, her training surely would have included using the Astronomicon?


No, I didn't mean during her training with the Navis Nobilite, I meant following her capture by the Night Lords. I'll have to look it up (either in _Soul Hunter_ or _Blood Reaver_) to find a direct quote, but I definitely remember her being instructed to navigate the ship without using the Astronomican.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> I don't think that the jumps take longer the further you go, rather it is that the longer you stay in the warp the greater the time dislocation you might suffer.


OK...so what you're saying is that a greater travel-distance generally means greater Warp travel-time, but realspace travel-time is random regardless of travel-distance?
Example: Ship A is warp-traveling a distance of 100 light years. Ship B is warp-traveling a distance of 1 light year. The Warp travel-time for Ship A would be longer, let's say 100 hours. The Warp travel-time for Ship B would be shorter, let's say 1 hour. Ship A thus spends more time in the Warp. However, Ship A's realspace travel-time could be shorter than Ship B's. Thus if the ships start off at the same time in realspace, Ship A may arrive first on the Imperial calendar, but Ship A's crew will have experienced more time in the Warp.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

I always had this theory that the Warp is in fact one massive entity that traveled to(or was born at) the Milky Way at some point and was a far cry from what it is now. Over time it got bigger, more complex, and then began to sprout different sorts of entities like daemons or the Chaos gods as it interacted with the physical realm and the souls that lived there.

Like how at the end of the War in Heaven, when Chaos first made it's presence known it was in the form of an Enslaver plague. There were no gods or daemons trying to get people to worship or summon them, it was just Warp entities coming through psykers and eating souls with no real goal.

Time and distance DO have meaning in the Warp, just not one that mortals can comprehend. Otherwise it would be impossible for even the Chaos gods to grasp concepts of time and space at all. There must be some sort of reference point, a connection between the Warp and the materium that makes any sort of translation possible.

OT: If the Nids can travel to the Milky Way and be aware of something in the Warp(like the Astronomicon's signal for instance), then other things outside of the galaxy must be able to see the Warp, regardless of if they know what it is or not.


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

Surely if anyone from within the Milky Way has travelled out of it it would be the Eldar, and they have never mentioned it as far as I'm aware, so maybe it's just too far for mortals to travel with adequate supplies?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

I think the general point is that there is simply no need for any of the current factions to venture beyond the current galaxy, even if they could. The Terran Imperium is the largest mortal empire at present, yet the majority of the galaxy still remains unexplored and uncharted to them. They have all the manpower, living space, resources/energy, uncharted space (in regards to wander lust), and enemies they could ever require. So its not really an issue. Certainly not at the moment in the Time of Ending.

Whether the mortal factions theoretically could or not reach another galaxy is another matter though. The Human Federations during the Dark Age sent out probes which detected signs of Greenskin life beyond the Milky Way (i'll have to double check to find that source) so that could be used as evidence in favour. How they got there would presumably be via the warp (unless they were planted there as the Krork by the Old Ones), which would also be the theoretical method for most other factions. The Necrons during the War in Heaven were armed with ships that could _"cross the galaxy in the blink of an eye."_ Perhaps this technology would have enabled them to reach other galaxies. The Tyranids have also achieved inter-galactic travel without employing warp travel, so there are definatley other methods. It certainly seems that reaching other galaxies would be possible for the likes of humanity.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

This sounds like an interesting subject...


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Monty: You've got it right, at least as I see it happening anyway. I think that fluff talking about longer warp-jumps taking longer than short jumps, is just a good in-'verse rule-of-thumb because it usually works out that way.
When it comes tp probes sent out by DAoT Humanity, are you sure, CotE, that they actually got to other galaxies? I mean travelling purely through realspace there is no way that they could reach another galaxy in such a short space of time, even at lightspeed. The quote I remember seeing was that 'wherever in the galaxy Humanity sent its probes, the Orks had always seemed to be there already' (of course that's a rather poor paraphrase). 

GFP


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Monty: You've got it right, at least as I see it happening anyway. I think that fluff talking about longer warp-jumps taking longer than short jumps, is just a good in-'verse rule-of-thumb because it usually works out that way


I guess that sort of makes sense
greater travel-distance equals greater travel-time in the Immaterium, but the corresponding travel-time in the Materium is subject to a significant degree of randomness...in fact, realspace travel-time could be negative (you arrive before you set out)
the degree of randomness can't be too great, however, otherwise Warp travel would be exceedingly inefficient


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I think the general point is that there is simply no need for any of the current factions to venture beyond the current galaxy, even if they could. The Terran Imperium is the largest mortal empire at present, yet the majority of the galaxy still remains unexplored and uncharted to them. They have all the manpower, living space, resources/energy, uncharted space (in regards to wander lust), and enemies they could ever require. So its not really an issue. Certainly not at the moment in the Time of Ending.
> 
> Whether the mortal factions theoretically could or not reach another galaxy is another matter though. The Human Federations during the Dark Age sent out probes which detected signs of Greenskin life beyond the Milky Way (i'll have to double check to find that source) so that could be used as evidence in favour. How they got there would presumably be via the warp (unless they were planted there as the Krork by the Old Ones), which would also be the theoretical method for most other factions. The Necrons during the War in Heaven were armed with ships that could _"cross the galaxy in the blink of an eye."_ Perhaps this technology would have enabled them to reach other galaxies. The Tyranids have also achieved inter-galactic travel without employing warp travel, so there are definatley other methods. It certainly seems that reaching other galaxies would be possible for the likes of humanity.


Is it uncharted or did the IoM lose the starcharts of what they had. To my knowledge the great crusade rediscovered allot but who knows how many uncharted colonies there are.

Pirates, rouges, smugglers, people like the interex. If the latter could get to that level who knows what a civ that the IoM didn't find could be at in the 10K since the HH.


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## Braakbal (Aug 18, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> No, I didn't mean during her training with the Navis Nobilite, I meant following her capture by the Night Lords. I'll have to look it up (either in _Soul Hunter_ or _Blood Reaver_) to find a direct quote, but I definitely remember her being instructed to navigate the ship without using the Astronomican.



I'm pretty sure the Night Lords don't instruct her to do it, but the machine spirit of the Covenant of blood rebels against navigating the warp with the use of the astronomican.


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

I think the only races that have been outside the galaxy are the Tyranids (which come from a different one), the Greenskins (which are everywhere), Necrons (their codex talks alot of universe), and the Eldar (their codex has stories of craftworlds that have left the galaxy in search of a place to start new).


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> Is it uncharted or did the IoM lose the starcharts of what they had. To my knowledge the great crusade rediscovered allot but who knows how many uncharted colonies there are.


_"The lmperium of Mankind is spread across almost the entire galaxy and consists of more than a million worlds. Although this is a huge number of planets it is as nothing when compared to the immense size of the galaxy. The Imperium is actually spread very thinly across space: its worlds are dotted throughout the void and divided by hundreds if not thousands of light years. It is therefore wrong to think of the Imperium in terms of a territory which extends across the galaxy. The truth is far more complex. Within the galaxy are countless alien civilisations. Many separate Ork empires, and vast areas consumed by the Tyranids or given over to Chaos. Most of the galaxy remains unexplored. Who knows what secrets lie undiscovered amongst the stars? Undoubtedly there are other advanced civilisations, lost human colonies, and the ruins of long dead races waiting to be explored."_

So it seems to be a mixture of both. Most of the galaxy has always been uncharted and unexplored by mankind, but the current Imperium is less aware than the human federations of the Dark Age were for example, as evidenced by the fact that lost human colonies are still present in the galaxy, undiscovered by the Imperium.



Reaper45 said:


> Pirates, rouges, smugglers, people like the interex. If the latter could get to that level who knows what a civ that the IoM didn't find could be at in the 10K since the HH.


Indeed. You could even draw parallels between lost human colonies and the Tau Empire, the larger and more powerful their civilisations grow the more likely it is that they are going to attract the attention of the Imperium, a major xenos power, or Chaos, increasing the chance of their own destruction. There are certainly no human civilisations that come close to rivalling the Terran Imperium though.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Man CoTe, you have a way of making anything sound more epic than usual.


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## Zymosis (Aug 4, 2011)

A nice pondering.

The warp. i was under the impression it exists every where. universe wide.
sentiant life in this galaxy has caused storms, currents, and movement, but this itsself does not make travel possible, most storms are wroted as preventing accurate travel. like the one that saved the tau civilisaton after discovery.

I support the idea of being unable to travel to far due to the lack of reference points. 

I thought time was irrelevent in the warp. its maintained on ships etc to stop them going mad.

i'm sure i've read of things comming out of the warp 1000's of years in the past or future.

which would make percived time in the warp simply down to how long in "ship's time" it takes the navigators to plot a safe path through the swirling madness.
don't imperial date references include a prefix depending on distance from terra to allow modification in time ? 1 being close to tera, 9 being unknown.

the tau are noted to be able to make short hops in the warp. could this be them, 'warp-hopping' to a pont they can detect. 
ie, detect a point 500 light years over there, hop there in a few min. as aposed to imperial jumping in to the warp and sailing 1000's of light years else where.

Necrons. or rather necroytar ? i'm fairly convinced that at this time is before current sentiant beings dreamed up warp curents, so the warp would be a simple place to navigate through.

tyranids, utilise giant floating coccoons drawn to the evidance of life they feel through the warp. the nasties are efectivly in stasis untill they can feed on a nice little planet.

On a different note :
My own fluff for my curent imperial forces relies on the fact a DAoT colony ship, called Endeavor 7, got thrown to a distant 'place' be that well beyond the eastern fringe or even another galaxy, due to a malfunction of a warp drive. where they settled and fearfull of further use of the drive began to thrive well beyond the reach or influance of the true imperium.
Their return to the current galaxy was possible due to the creation of a pair of huge 'warp - gates' that were built by 'farther', one in the place they ended up, one in the outer reaches of the eastern fringe. 
this gate was their only evidence that 'farther' got near his quest to return to the imperium propper. how he got back to this galaxy and his fate is undocumented.

the gate like most sci-fi portals, links two places through the warp, space and time, making quick and safe passage possible.


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