# Remembering the old



## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

Hey guys so its been 17yrs 2day, when i started playing and collecting GW products. So i thought i would have a little rememberence day on the past glories of the 40k game system. 

I am one of those people who still manage to horde all the old rulebooks and minis from days past and i had decided to get a group of mates round and play a series of battles. 

Each battle took place on a far distant war torn planet and used the rules set for 2nd, 3rd and 4th editions of the game. This not only brought back some very fond memories but also showed in depth how much the game had actually changed, tacticaly and simplicaty wise.

I for one still believe that 2nd edition was by far the most competitve and was more tacticaly challangening than the other sets, this may be due tio my biased oppinion but then GW do have a habbit of tring to suck in little kids for the extra profit, thats the only reason the rules set was changed.

I thought i would shre this special day with you guys and take the oppitunity to ask if anyone on this forum still played the old edtions of this much loved sci-fi game, if you dont then my next question would be why? Go on give it ago it's fun.

I dont belive you have to be constricted to one rule set because GW brings a new set out, just for fun i am a strong beleiver that you can use whatever ruleset you want to use. Also it would be nice for some of the long time players and collecters to join in and remember the days of old and past glories that was 2nd edition onwards to the present edition.

So please make an old gamer happy and replie to this post and make whatever comments you deem fit to make.

Thanx in advance Lord Rahl


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I would tend to agree that 2nd ed was the best edition, but that's because I am old.

Aramoro


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

2nd Editions when I started too... but, the games definately easier to play these days and a short battle no longer takes forever as your having to roll for each model in combat like you used to... I'll always love 2nd ed... but the gameplay is more fun now I find.


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

Aramoro said:


> I would tend to agree that 2nd ed was the best edition, but that's because I am old.
> 
> Aramoro


Snap. 

I use the pre 3rd edition Epic rules whenever I can but for 40k have had to go with the flow.


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## Mart007 (Mar 29, 2008)

I missed 3rd ed but played all from RT. I was quite young when I played RT and never really got it so wont count that!

2nd ed was to long winded imo, but it help make some great spin off games for Necromunda and Gorkamorka.

I think in this day and age its hard enough to find time, paint your models, arrange a game and remember all the rules so I think a flowing is better not just for younger players but also old farts who have to balance real life and wotnot! Im more on the thinking just because something is more long winded does not neseserily make it more tactical. There is still enough detail in the rules and army books.

2nd ed was breakthough in the way it did things, but Im glad things have moved on.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I enjoyed 3rd when it became 3.5, all the good of 3 and 4 combined, 4th was a pile of steaming rending crap, and now 5th is just a joke, I'd like to play 3.5 again, but nobody I know remembers it, and todays generation don't even know what the number 3 is.

I missed 2nd, but from what I keep hearing thats not a bad thing.

I prefer the specialist games rules to the main rule systems though, there old but still pretty much perfect since they don't get messed around with


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

I played Rogue Trader, and then picked up again with Third Edition.

Second Edition put me off somehow. My abiding memory of it was first time out, parrying occurred in close combat; it just seemed to jar with the brief large brush approach everything else was squashed into and I never played the Edition again.


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## comrade (Jun 30, 2008)

I loved 3rd, and 3.5.... oh how I miss it so. But alas, I'm surrounded by a bunch of teenagers who speak of speese meehrens! now.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

I started playing in 4th, I know its only an edition ago, but I really miss the Chaos Codex. I also think that the Rulebook was better including ideas for scenery and even including templates!


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

Rogue Trader days, those were interesting.


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

1 word... Zoats.


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## The Fallen (Jul 15, 2009)

3rd Ed. was my favorite overall. I came in towards the end of second Ed. and so I dont have to many memories of those days. However from what i remember, It was way to drawn out imo. (ahh the memories )

got out of the game when 4th just came around and returned a couple months before 5th got released so I dont really know how 4th ranks with the rest.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone here been around since 1st ed.? If so, how was its gameplay and what would you rank it compared to the rest?


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## Justindkates (Apr 30, 2010)

I started playing in 2nd and stopped in 3rd.. and now I'm back : /


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

effigy22 said:


> 1 word... Zoats.


Who eat...Zoatibix!

And all the other really bad jokes based on designer's names, most and least favourite things.

#and who can forget the grafitti covered, not good to take home the meet your parents Ultramarines:biggrin:



The Fallen said:


> Just out of curiosity, has anyone here been around since 1st ed.? If so, how was its gameplay and what would you rank it compared to the rest?


It took ages compared to the other editions; that was why I think 2nd Edition was too stripped down.

Before they brought in army lists you could have each model with different gear; some load outs were actually random, e.g. 50% chance Bolter, otherwise 1- 10% Graviton gun, &c.

Even after they standardised with army lists, if I remember, you still declared which model was shooting at which then rolled to hit (with umpteen range, cover, &c. modifiers), and to wound, then they took each of their saves, then you moved onto the next model.

All the detail was very satisfying with 10 models per side though.


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

Thanx for all your replies, although i don't think 2nd was drawn out and long winded, i could get through a game of about 2000pts in no more than 5-6 hours, it was perfect when i was young and i would go back and do it all again. This 5th is ok much better than 3rd or 4th but the games are to short, and mostly little kiddies who play now. I used to like going into the GW store and kicking the crap out of grown men back in 2nd but now its like; ugh Gw staff say the kid can break the rules because he is a learner, ppffst, not back in my day sonshine. Alas 5th is here and we must all accept that the good old days are gone  we will miss you 2nd ed and RT for the really oldies of us there are.


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## King Gary (Aug 13, 2009)

Gotta love the nostalgia. I think i smell cat's pee, next to that walking stick over there :grin:


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I came in near the middle - end of 3rd edition and thought the rules set worked really well (bar line of sight), 4th edition came out and changed a few things and brought with it my favourite expansion to-date which is the Cities of Death (in my opinion nothing so far has been able to beat the intensity of battles this provides in the new edition of expansions).


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## The Fallen (Jul 15, 2009)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> It took ages compared to the other editions; that was why I think 2nd Edition was too stripped down.
> 
> Before they brought in army lists you could have each model with different gear; some load outs were actually random, e.g. 50% chance Bolter, otherwise 1- 10% Graviton gun, &c.
> 
> ...


That actually sounds very intriguing. Just for the hell of it...i wonder if anyone has or knows how to get ahold of the 1st ed. rulebook. IDK why but I kinda want to field 5th ed. models using 1st ed. rules lol


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## Kirby (May 16, 2010)

2nd ed had too much if you don't take this you're just silly. I came in at the very tail-end of 2nd so didn't get into it much but I recall psychic powers that dominated the field and terminators that literally don't die. I think it reflected more of what 40k fluff is meant to be like but I think 5th edition is by far the most balanced and tactful (no other edition has the internal and external balance 5th ed books have so far).

Mind you, my favorite memories are from 3rd ed, simply because that's when I really got into the game, had 2 fully painted armies (compared to 6-7 half painted armies) and played in a lot of tournaments and leagues (+ made a few good friends). Nothing beats VDR either .


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## Justindkates (Apr 30, 2010)

Anyone remember the Wolf Guard Terminator cheese people used to pull in 2nd ed? 

The entire army in Wolf Guard Terminator armor with assault canons.... 

And you had to shoot at the closest model so guys would put a Rhino in front of a Land Raider... 

Overwatch?

Yeah 2nd was a strange one.


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Wolf guard terminators with cyclones AND assault cannons were worse.


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## Mart007 (Mar 29, 2008)

Lord Rahl said:


> Thanx for all your replies, although i don't think 2nd was drawn out and long winded, i could get through a game of about 2000pts in no more than 5-6 hours, it was perfect when i was young and i would go back and do it all again. This 5th is ok much better than 3rd or 4th but the games are to short, and mostly little kiddies who play now. I used to like going into the GW store and kicking the crap out of grown men back in 2nd but now its like; ugh Gw staff say the kid can break the rules because he is a learner, ppffst, not back in my day sonshine. Alas 5th is here and we must all accept that the good old days are gone  we will miss you 2nd ed and RT for the really oldies of us there are.


The way you remember is probably different though as the grown ups maybe werent as grown up back then as you will have been a lot younger!! 

I hear what your saying about but 5-6 hours is to long for me, 2 - 3 hours for a standard game is just right imo. When you have chidlers its easier to organise a game in the evening or in the afternoon, not an entire day... for me anyway.

Dont get me wrong I have a lot of love for second but as much flak 5th ed got when it came out (new rules always do!) I dont remember a time when all armies are *pretty* balanced and even old armies that are dieing for a dex are still playable.

I love the fact that most armies are mech now, deployment is so quick, first turn manouvering is tactical and doesent take an age... then usually by turn 3 and 4 all the exciting stuff happens. By turn 5 a lot of casualties have happened and your into quick turns again... love it.

I would tweak a few things in 5th, mainly wound allocation, but aside from that, i love it... even cover saves!


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## Lord Rahl (Mar 13, 2010)

Does anyone remember that bollocks hard callidus assassin who would get extra attacks in CC for having mutiple enemys in base to base with him and hell they were hard to take out, even shooting didn't work coz they had some gay rule where they could dodge almost every shot fired at them.

Then was warlord Ghaz thraka with his 2+ invunerable save when he lost his last wound and shouted WWAAAHHHHHHHGGG!!!!, or that very annoying gretching makara, who also had a 2+ invunerable save from the 1st turn onwards for the whole game due to his very fortunate luck.

I remember when i had to play tyranids in a scenario of theres that meant you would win if you had atleast 1 remaining modal left on the table and it was always Makara the gretchin with his 2+ invunerable, Let the grots save the day yay :grin:.

I think in 5th tho it is speeded up and does help out if you have kids around and a family which needs looking after, so yay in that department for GW doing somthing good.


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## King Gary (Aug 13, 2009)

Does anyone else here find the battle reports in WD hard to follow? This month's particularly (the spearhead one) they seemed to try and write in some sort of narrative style that just didn't follow any sort of logic :ireful2:


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Ergh, started playing in 2nd; really couldn't be bothered with it now - far too complicated.

5th all the way


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm a Rogue trader player!

And like many, I agree that 2nd was by far the best Edition. The rules were were streamlined and the game speed was much faster. Due to this, you were punished for bad tactical errors and rewarded for good ones.

Units like Terminators and genestealers really did hit like a hammer and took alot of planning to deal with. Not like today when 'Tarpitting' is a viable option. Not that Units like Terminators hit as hard as they did.

Oh, I miss those days


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## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

tho i got into GW back in the 3rd edition i have to admit that i didn't start playing 40k probbly until the 5th edition.
I started with Lizardmen and i still have them to this day and also picked up some odd Marines here and there(i still have the old Metal Vindicator that sometimes sees play) I also love my old Metal Necrons which i still have(can't remeber how i got them but hay) 
I then got into LOTR and still play(when i can find an oppoent) mid way though the Two Towers. It was at this point i stoped playing Fantasy as i couldn't get to turms with the rules and it annoyed me somewhat. I started play 40k soon after WOTR came out and now have a total of 3 armys (1 is rather small being 1200pts of Nids at a push and my Blood angels army doesn't really count as i jsut use proxy modals for them)

Not knowing the previous Generation rules i can't say that much but i do still lvoe some of the older modals. The Demon Prince i love mroe than the new plastic one thats on it's way and i keep tossing weaithe ri want to get one before it dissapers.


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

If you're trying to locate a copy of Rogue Trader try going on "AbeBooks" on the net. It's a cross between Amazon and E-Bay. I use them for any out of print books that I'm after. I've just looked myself and they have six copies available from various sellers at this moment at around £30 plus postage.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I started in Rogue Trader days, i have been reading alot of my old white dwarfs lately from those dark days, the thing i miss most and its nothing to do with the mechanics of the rules, i miss the times when everything was new, and i dont mean like GW have several new releases a month these days, i mean never seen before "new" and the rules for it would be in the latest white dwarf and then compiled into a 40k compendium or hard back like realm of chaos or ere we go.
Infact a bit of a pop quiz what were the original names for the baneblade and shadowsword ? 17 rep for the first correct answer for both


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## genesis108 (Jul 29, 2009)

I started playing in 2nd Edition...I miss my old 12 shot cyclones. 

Oh..those were fun. City fight boards..2 Cyclone Terminators firing 12 Krak missiles(the entire Cyclone rack) each for 2 6" s8 -4 armour save blast templates. I miss the look on peoples faces when 2 terminators wiped out about 1/2 their army in 1 round of shooting.

Remembering those days make me sad panda.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Ah Cyclones were great, you could fire all the missiles in one go for and extra 1/2" radius blast for each one wasn't it?

Libbies with Terminator Armour, Lightning Claws, Quicken and Combat Drugs woop woop

Hallucinogen grenades with the effects table of awesomeness

D-Cannons that could teleport their target underground or up in the sky.

Fun fun fun

Aramoro


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## Schizofen (Mar 11, 2009)

I remember 2nd ed taking ages to play and being a bit over complicated. Had a lot of funny things though, vortex grenades that sucked up anything in their path and virus grenades that decimated entire Ork armies in one turn.

Because you had to shoot at the closest enemy, my favourite thing to do was have a Chaos Hero with jump pack, conversion field (3+ invul) and power field (2+ invul from shooting), and jump him out in front of the enemy. So the entire army usually wasted an entire turn of shooting trying to get through three different saves and two wounds. It was silly (and there may well have been rules against it that none of us spotted).


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I started with the rogue trader rules but never really played much until 2nd,
Still remember fondly my guard facing nids and unleashing an army worth of overwatch and not so fondly virus outbreak killing most of my army before the game started.
Luckily most of my group are happy to go back and revist the older rules every now and then and still use the mission cards to shake up the game a bit.


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## Inquisitor Malaclypse (Dec 6, 2008)

Aramoro said:


> Ah Cyclones were great, you could fire all the missiles in one go for and extra 1/2" radius blast for each one wasn't it?
> 
> Libbies with Terminator Armour, Lightning Claws, Quicken and Combat Drugs woop woop
> 
> ...


how about Warp Spiders that fired flamer templates?

Dreads that could get shot by las cannons all day long and still go home at the end of the day?

termies that died only on roll of snake eyes on 2D6?

missed RT, dabbled in 3rd, and didn't really get to start collecting in 4th. i've been collecting the models since 1998 but for various reasons started playing a few years ago.

i still love the old minis, no matter how ridiculous they look now. they were the best models we had at the time for affordable prices. you won't find me scorning the old Leman Russ, Calgar, etc. models.

i don't complain much about the rules set changing over the years; for whatever reason, be it simplicity, attracting a younger crowd, or whatever, i can understand as they're a company trying to make a buck.

i do complain, loudly, about how shitstastic White Dwarf magazine has become. i finally stopped buying it a couple of months ago since you can find all the stuff they put in it on their web site. and at $9 USD you'd think they would add more content.

woops.

i mean, the magazine went from having instructions on kit bashing Bane Blades and Wave Serpents, and having the Index Astartes articles to it's current advertisement only articles.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

That is one thing I've noticed.

I've read and will re-read WDs from say 6 years ago, but over the last couple of years, WDs seem to have less in them? Size of the mag has gone up, but actual content has gone down for me.

I don't know.


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## genesis108 (Jul 29, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> Ah Cyclones were great, you could fire all the missiles in one go for and extra 1/2" radius blast for each one wasn't it?


Yes indeed. And it applied to Krak and Frags, regardless. So yes..a 6" S8 -4 Save blast marker plopped down in the middle of some..well..anything besides Terminators and it was instant death to all of them. Those were the days of cheese..and with my Terminators on that city fight board, I was King of Cheddar.

I would sit my 2 5man squads on either side of the road(the only way to move from 1 side to the other was a main road down the middle with buildings on each side) with Cyclones at front..as soon as they got into my 48" range(usually on the 1st turn)...missiles away. 2 6" blast markers covering the width of the road and doubled up 1 behind the other..as Blasts were easier to hit on target back then..12" long 6" wide corridor of death and despair...and bitching and crying from the other player.

It usually went something like this..

*Me*: -Fires 24 Kraks and lays down the Dutch Apple Pie Plates of Death-*
Opponent*: "Fuck you. I just put those 40 Guardsmen/Genestealers/Hormagaunts/Termagaunts/anything else but Terminators(3+ on 2d6..only thing that could save) down on the board..could have saved me some time and said you were going to kill half my shit on the first turn...I hate you!"
*Me*: "Oh..sorry. I wanted to give you a glimmer of hope and then crush your dreams of standing a chance in defiance of the Emperor. My bad." -Big toothy smile-


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## presc1ence (May 23, 2010)

Agree 100% about whitedwarf, although i'd say the low point was about 2 years ago , if you compare those issues with the current ones, you can def see its got better. 

But nothing near ones i that are 4/5 years or older. 

Ive been re-reading everything from issue 80 onwards for years , and its only the ones from a few eyars ago that have never been touched again.


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