# The Vampires or WoC :S



## OneBulletAtATime (Mar 11, 2011)

Hey, I've taken a real interest back in fantasy after reading up on Storm of Magic so I want to try sort out my fantasy army before its release.

At the moment, I have a 2000 point Vampire Counts army that I only bought a few months ago. I've had a few games with it against my friend (Lizardman) who I've ended up losing too each time, putting me off playing my counts. Since then I got back into 40k and I've been playing CSM, making me want to start a WOC army in fantasy.

Now my question is this. Which army would be better for me to collect when it comes to playing Storm of Magic?? Should I carry on with my VC or start fresh with WOC. I've heard WOC have amazing sorcerers with 2+ wards when on a fulcrum.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Well i have heard a Pretty solid rumor of a New Vampire book coming out this year along with new models since they are totally screwed by 5th edition right now....... Then again WOC are a really solid army choice since there more or less the space marines of fantasy. So look at it this way do you want a horde army of undead with bad ass units you can't use in most games due to the points limit (Till there updated) Or a solid easy to play elite army?


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## OneBulletAtATime (Mar 11, 2011)

I suppose if their is a army book coming out some time this year, I might as-well stick with them for now. I do love the overall gothic-y undead feel of the vampire counts and they are a nice change from CSM. 

I didn't realise they were screwed by 5th? Why is that?


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## Gharof von Carstein (May 19, 2008)

nevermind the fact fantasy is on its 8th edition and not 5th  VC have not really been screwed by 8th, more like limited. skeletons are not viable. Varghulf is still good but everyone is running around with cheap flaming banners negating his regeneration save. If you dont enjoy constantly running the same list than perhaps looking at WoC is for you.

However not this year put possibly in about a year and a half vampires will be getting a new book out (at least its heavily suggested in the rumour mill). The reason for this is worthless overcosted skeletons, crap core in the form of below par zombies (skaven slaves are better) crap dire wolves and such. 

The only list worth running for VC in 8th is big blocks of ghoul core (poison attacks rule) with a deathstar Grave guard unit along with a BSB with the drakenhof banner and either combat or completly magic oriented vampires.

The only variation is; do you take forbidden lore on your vampire lord with the lore of your choice and try to stomp your opponent through the uber spells (good for storm of magic and against non magic defensive armies) or do you kit out your vampires for pure combat and run the risk of not being able to heal your army up? both options are viable but its the smallest of variation we can make at this point. 

Blood knights are still worth taking as well as wraiths. Blood knights only so if you can keep them save from warmachines and magic until you reach combat. VC are by no means worthless in 8th, just boring as hell to play. Thats why I started beastmen.


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## OneBulletAtATime (Mar 11, 2011)

Gharof von Carstein said:


> nevermind the fact fantasy is on its 8th edition and not 5th


Good Point xD

Its a shame, as I enjoy the idea behind vamps though I don't want to get stuck with another army that is limited (like csm...)

Out of pure curiosity I've threw together a WoC list and I like what I see. My only concern about WoC is that I've heard people talking about lore of metal and its armour eating spell owning them...

Is that true or is their a way to save their pretty armour??:biggrin:


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

Vampire Counts are getting a new monster which will be announced in next months White Dwarf.... maybe another codex but I doubt it.... maybe the start of a new codex.

So you have that to look forward to, it might be a super awesome one


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

If VC get a new army book soon, go with them, as you already have an army, but WOC are superior at the moment. A lot more room for customization there. VC are really restrictive in builds right now.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

WoC if you want a force comprised primarily of naked barbarians with GW's (about 20 hours of converting...also don't give me that retarded crap about flails as no combat will ever last less then 2-3 turns with marauders!), or giant bricks of warriors. The reason being that these are now the bread and butter of WoC in this edition, and besides lords, and possibly dogs very little besides these options will ever fit in this edition with the exception of warshrines, and chosen.

VC are now dependent on buffed GG, and large hordes of ghouls with ethereal cheese topping. If you are not using these then your loses make perfect sence do to the fact that no one fears fear anymore do to rerollable ld and command range. So you end up paying premium price for crap even a skaven slave will ace in CC. VC are and have always been about the power build if you are trying to play a balanced VC list in this edition then you are living in the past.

So in short pick WoC if you want a more friendly balanced list, and VC if you want to spam a hard list that will walk noob, but struggle against the new army books. 

PS: If you need help making a effective VC list contact me and the other VC vets, we have been here since 6th and we will be damned if this new edition keeps us buried forever!


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

I once thought of making a VC army with all ghouls before 8th edition XD 

But now apparently it's noobish to field a little more 'elite' units?


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Go with what you think looks best & you want to build/paint most! If you have your heart set on VC's, then go for 'em. Yes, at the *competitive tournament* level the army's options are excruciatingly limited, but in non-competitive settings, everything become viable!
Besides, while VC's are heavily restricted at the competitive level, it's not like every other army isn't in the same boat either! All competitve lists focus on just the most cost-effective characters/units and those are always just a small part of the whole...

So sure my Lahmians lose on turn 1 when the local d-bags are out in full force and being asshats to everyone, but when the overtly abusable stuff is held in check, VC's are still a very fun army, despite the fact they currently have the game's worst book! ie: there's no internal list-balance present, alot of highly abusable shit, and even more utterly useless crap! (but then, it's Gav Thorpe's most epic fuck-up of all time, so what do you expect?!)

VC's are getting a new monster in august. VC's will also get a shiny new 8th ed book eventually as well, and there's rummors it'll hit shelves by late 2012 - early 2013! (WoC on the other hand will be waiting longer!)

If you really like the flavour of the VC's, then come & join the aristocracy of the night! We bribe you first with cookies!:biggrin:

Cheers!


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

I don't think WoC need a new book....but let's not turn this into a debate on what armies need a new book.


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## OneBulletAtATime (Mar 11, 2011)

First of all, thanks for all the great responses 

Secondly, I've decided after much thought and a good read through all your comments to stick with the creatures of the night despite their flaws. I just like the idea behind the army to much to give up on it, so I've been painting them up for the past few days and I'm am happy to say they are all starting to look awesome. 

Although now, I'am expecting cookies from experiment 626 xD

I have a few friendly games coming up over the summer, mainly against empire and lizardmen, so I'm going to start throwing a list together soon. Any suggestions on what to take??


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

*accidently ate the cookies in question*
Sory about that...

Anyways, welcome to the ranks of the true Lords of the Night! As for some tactics vs empire & lizzies, well here goes;
- Empire will have a very strong magic defense since their priests still add dice to their dispel pools... So, things like the Black Periapt and the Master of the Black Arts power can help you get your spells through by ensure you also get some additional dice!
Also, never neglect the Necromancer - he's worth his wieght in gold in this edition as he provides you easy access to our best spell (vanhel's danse) and he's invaluable for 1-dice spaming the invocation of nehek.

- Wight Kings make for fine combat characters - much more efficient than a Vampire Thrall. His statline in parts makes even WoC heroes jealous, and he comes dirt cheap with basic gear & the killing blow ability!
Like a fighty Vampire Lord though, never enter into a challenge with empire wizards or priests of any kind... One of them will almost always be toting the Van Horstmann's Speculum which will result in you likely losing your character through some nasty stat-swaping trickery!

- Take what you like with core. Yes ghouls are the 'best' and most cost-effective choice, but our skeletons look fucking cool!
Plus, using the Forbidden Lore power on a Lv3 or 4 lord means you can buff those skellies! Lores like Light with it's speed of light and/or birona's timewarp spells, lore of fire or metal, even beasts is great for buffing all of your sub-par units!
Also when using skeletons, add in the Staff of Damnation to get a 'free' round of hits in (and with no strikes coming back at you too!) and suddenly those skeletons don't seem quite as bad as they are!

- fell bats are ace for war machine hunting.

- Vargulfs are great when used in pairs! They make an excellent supporter to charging alongside our weaker troops such as our core units...



I'll have some more ideas later, but right now breakfest is calling m name! (along with another batch of cookies!)
Cheers!


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## OneBulletAtATime (Mar 11, 2011)

Again thanks for the advise guys k:

I've finally (busy week...) pulled a list together:

*Point Limit: 2250*

*Lord* 405pts

Items:
_Helm Of Commandment,Talisman Of Preservation,Flayed Hauberk_

Powers:
_Master Of The Black Arts, Summon Ghouls, Forbidden Lore_

*Heroes*

*Vampire * 195pts
Items:Black Periapt,Wristbands Of Black Gold 
Powers:Master Of The Black Arts

*Necromancer* 120pts
Items: Sceptre De Noirot, Armour Of Night
Spells: Raise Dead, Vanhels

*Wight King* 150pts
Items: Black Axe Of Krell, BSB

*Core*

20x *Skeletons*: Musician, Standard Bearer, Spears 192pts
20 *Ghouls* 160pts
20 *Ghouls* 160pts
5 *Dire Wolves* 40pts
1 *Corpse Cart*: Balefire 100pts

*Special*

25 *Grave Guard*: Standard Bearer, Royal Standard Of Strigos, Musician 353 pts

*Rare*

*Varghulf* 175pts
*Black Coach* 200pts

Total: 2250 :biggrin:

Any suggestions, improvements, advise??


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

Post it up in Lists as well, you'll probably get more feedback there.


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## OneBulletAtATime (Mar 11, 2011)

Masked Jackal said:


> Post it up in Lists as well, you'll probably get more feedback there.


KK will do, Thanks k:


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