# What to play in tournaments now, Empire, High Elves or Wood Elves?



## Avariel (Jan 16, 2008)

My friend Jen has complained about selling out on elves at Ardboys when I played Empire so I been thinking are elves good enough to play competitively or should I stick with Empire for now? Evaluating each army with strategies against the common tournament match ups. I could explain each unit but that made things really long.

I have had amazing success with my double dragon high elf list but results might be skewed as league allowed dogs of war cannon which really helped out alot in quite a few match ups. Empire performed really well for me my problem being in Ardboys Vampire Counts. I made it to the Semi finals but lost to Vampire Counts.

Empire list
Arch Lector Altena
1 Arch Lector of Sigmar @ 325 Pts
General; Prayers of Sigmar
Armour of Meteoric Iron
Van Horstman's Speculum
Sword of Sigismund

1 War Altar @ [0] Pts

2 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Wizard Isabella
1 Battle Wizard @ 164 Pts
Barding; Magic Level 2; Warhorse
Rod of Power
Ring of Volans

1 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Wizard Celes
1 Battle Wizard @ 164 Pts
Barding; Magic Level 2; Warhorse
Dispel Scroll
Dispel Scroll

1 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Wizard Camille
1 Battle Wizard @ 159 Pts
Barding; Magic Level 2; Warhorse
Wizard's Staff
Aldred's Casket of Sorcery

1 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

10 Handgunners @ 80 Pts
Empire Handgun

10 Handgunners @ 80 Pts
Empire Handgun

5 Knightly Orders @ 123 Pts
Barding; Lance; Full Plate Armor; Shield; Musician; Warhorse

5 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

5 Knightly Orders @ 123 Pts
Barding; Lance; Full Plate Armor; Shield; Musician; Warhorse

5 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

1 Great Cannon @ 100 Pts

3 Crew @ [0] Pts

1 Great Cannon @ 100 Pts

3 Crew @ [0] Pts

6 Pistoliers @ 115 Pts
Brace of Pistols; Light Armour; Musician; Warhorse

6 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

6 Pistoliers @ 115 Pts
Brace of Pistols; Light Armour; Musician; Warhorse

6 Warhorse @ [0] Pts

Old Faithful & Engineer Kirven
1 Steam Tank @ 300 Pts
Building Steam Points (Tank); Main Cannon (Tank); Steam Gun (Tank)

Old Bessie & Engineer Arc
1 Steam Tank @ 300 Pts
Building Steam Points (Tank); Main Cannon (Tank); Steam Gun (Tank)

Casting Pool: 8

Dispel Pool: 7

Models in Army: 57


Total Army Cost: 2248

I started this army with 7th Edition and the Karl Fanz on a Dragon let me have a Dragon and Cannons without Dogs of War. However people frown on special characters at most of our tournaments and I wanted to do a female arch lector and female knights so I came up with this army. Very effective but a bit over done and considered cheesy but I usually only play this list in tournaments. For pick up games i have Altena on a warhorse with her bodyguard sister knights, couple of hellfire missle launchers and more knights as well as some swordsman and handgunners. Was alot of fun doing the conversions for this army too. Thing is alot of people consider it really cheesy but it is darn effective and has a decent shot against vampire counts and demons in 2250 which are the armies to beat.

Short Army Fluff
Altena is the leader of a large convent in the stepes of Averland, Her base of operations is a cathedral fortress, surrouned by vine yards. She has the support of a large group of Sisters of Sigmar a small group of which have been trained as knights to be her bodyguards in battle. Altena has been building her army repulsing the Orc and other invaders. The profits from the wine production go towards funding Altena's army. Little is known about what goes on in the Catacombs but villagers nearby have seen the Steam Tank Old Faithful and the test fire range riddled with Hellfire rocket holes and trouffs from something bigger then a great cannon in the westward plain below the cathedral fortress. Altena is putting in her bid for the disputed Elector Count position of Averland.


Matchups

Bretonian RAF
Use pistoleers to set up counter charges. shoot them up when possible. everyone being flying is really annoying Haven't actually played this match in awhile.

Daemons - Bloodthirster/Mixed
Cannons do great in killing the blood thirster, make killing him a priority as he is the biggest threat to the steam tanks. Flamers can be annoying. Keep wizards safe instead of going for shooting magic missles with them as dispel is really needed.


Daemons - Kairos/Lord of Change Magic
see above.

Dwarves - Thorek Gunline
try and cannon snipe their war machines and get in fast with pistolers and hit one flank. If I can get a tank and the knights across in good shape their line folds. Can be pretty difficult match as they can out shoot me and have good magic defense so my level 2s not doing much.


Empire - dual steam tank + Karl on dragon or arch lector on war alter
always hated mirror matchs die rolls like to go first and terrain decide this match. I am really good at cannon sniping so hopefuly I can snipe their dragon or war altar. 3rd cannon would be really good here but I really like my fast calvary for march blocking and baiting.

High Elves Star Dragon
Cannons should be able to handle the dragon. handgunners hopefully take out their eagles before they can get your cannons.
Pistolers do a good job march blocking their calvary and shooting them down. take lore of metal and hope to get spirit of the forge on

High Elves Teclis
Hopefully can cannon snipe teclis but if not try and get a combo charge off on him. keep steam tanks away from him if possible. have good magic defense if he doesn't get a irresistable. try and get the casket mage near him if possible.

Lizardmen - 2nd Gen Slan, heavy on sallies, skinks, nike
Have enough magic defense that Slan isn't the end of the world, focus fire on Slan's unit and try to take him out if possible since spirit of the forge is bad. Steam tanks really hurt the rest of the army though.


Ogres - 3 butchers and a tyrant
Tyrant is the main target. Take down his unit with combined fire and tank charge. Have to watch out for fanatics.


Skaven SAD
Shoot Jezebals first, avoid the lightning gun and get a steam tank into their lines for some terror fun.

Vampire Counts - Casters Raise lots of Ghouls with 2 varghulfs + graveguard / black knights
9 dispel dice is pretty good in 2250 vs their 11-14 casting, its just in 3500 with 20 dice ouch. Trying the casket over the staff of sorcery to try and steal spells maybe should go back to staff of sorery for the +1 dispel. Focus on their supporting units with shooting and combind charges for the minor victory. Try not to get steam tanks stuck in huge ghoul bunkers. Use Pistoleers to march block and shoot up black knights as they are small unitsS


Wood Elves Dual Treeman
They really have problems with steam tanks and cannons threaten treemen. I have alot of dispel dice to shut down tree singing.

High Elf list
Unnamed2250 Pts - High Elves Army


Dragon Princess Aladora
1 Princess @ 616 Pts
General; Lance
Armour of Caledor
Vambraces of Defence
Gem of Courage

1 Dragon: Star - Xanthali

Lady Aurora
1 Dragon Mage @ 435 Pts
Magic Level 2; Lore of Fire
Silver Wand
Dispel Scroll
Dispel Scroll

1 Dragon: Sun @ [230] Pts

10 Archers @ 110 Pts
Longbow

10 Archers @ 110 Pts
Longbow

6 Dragon Princes @ 225 Pts
Barding; Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield; Standard
Lion Standard [25]

6 Elf Steed @ [0] Pts

5 Dragon Princes @ 150 Pts
Barding; Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield

5 Elf Steed @ [0] Pts

5 Ellyrian Reavers @ 112 Pts
Spear; Normal Bow; Light Armour; Musician

5 Elf Steed @ [0] Pts

1 Lion Chariot @ 140 Pts

2 Lion Crew @ [0] Pts

2 Lion @ [0] Pts

1 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 100 Pts

2 Crew @ [0] Pts
Light Armour

1 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 100 Pts

2 Crew @ [0] Pts
Light Armour

1 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 100 Pts

2 Crew @ [0] Pts
Light Armour

Zi the baby dragon counts as
1 Great Eagles @ 50 Pts

Casting Pool: 4

Dispel Pool: 3

Models in Army: 51


Total Army Cost: 2248

This is the double dragon high elf army I been playing in the local store league. Dogs of War are allowed so the actual list I play with has 2 Dogs of War Cannon and a 6th dragon prince in the second group of dragon princes at the 2250 level. I find this to be fairly effective against most opponents but Vampire Counts is proving to be a big problem and Gunlines can be a bit dicey. Have messaed around with putting in other dogs of war units like Asarnil for the 3.5k games and what not too. Results might have been skewed a bit as dogs of war cannon made the list much better in league but it needed it, alot of people had Giants in their rare slots and even some Rhinox.

I had alot of fun with the conversions for this army since I absolutely love dragons. Princess Aladora on a dragon being the center peice as well as the dragon mage Aurora. Doing two baby dragon eagles was fun too. point is I love dragons so.

Brief army fluff
Princess Aladora took up her father's mantle riding his dragon Xanthali and leading his army with her good friend Aurora. Being a woman in a man's world she does what it takes to get the job done including hiring mercenaries which has been frowned upon by her peers but their effectiveness in battle is undisputed.

Matchups

Bretonian RAF

Daemons - Bloodthirster/Mixed demons - dragon princes are gold, bloodthirster with the fire axe makes it easier but people been taking the killing blow axe which makes it difficult to fight him with the stardragon. have to shoot him in that case. I really hate flesh hounds as they are pretty fast and it can be difficult to get the charge on them without exposing your own units.

Daemons - Kairos/Lord of Change Magic - dragon princes are immune to fire take the flamers Kairos list is a bit easier as he can't fight so if you can get him with bolt throwers and the dragon you win. This is one of the reasons I droped the banner of sorcery for lion standard, vampires being the second. Dragon mage really isn't good for much other then burning horrors hopefully from a flank.

Dark Elves Monsters - my monsters are better then theirs. Dragon Princes with 2 attacks and better range then cold ones.

Dwarves - Thorek Gunline - charge one flank and hope for the best is really dicey. If I make it with enough stuff I win but if not.

Empire - dual steam tank + Karl on dragon or arch lector on war alter - have to go after the war altar with the star dragon, shoot steam tanks to slow them down. This gets alot harder without dogs of war cannon because I would like pop their steam tanks with cannons sniping unless they hid them. have Aurora, Zi and the reavers go after their cannons and artillery

High Elves Star Dragon - I have an extra dragon. have to try and march block their calvary and get to their bolt throwers with Zi and the reavers while going after their dragon with bolt throwers and my star dragon. the lists I see neglect eagle and reavers which give me an advantage.

High Elves Teclis - can be annoying if he takes lore of beasts but focus fire on his unit and charge it with everything possible usually works alright. no dogs of war makes me sad though because cannon sniping teclis and he fails his look out sir on turn 1 is just lucky and awesome.

Lizardmen - 2nd Gen Slan, heavy on sallies, skinks, nike
Focus fire on Slan's unit and multi charge it if possible. go after nike and then sallies.

Ogres - 3 butchers and a tyrant
they really don't have much that can deal with a stardragon or dragon prince hammer othe rthen the tyrant squad shoot the hell out of this squad and then charge in with dragon and calvary. fanatics can be annoying shoot them or burninate them first.

Skaven SAD - bolt throwers and cannons ahve better range then warp lightning guns. shoot up jeezals and then hit one flank, they fold fast with terrble leadership if you get through as 2 terror + 1 fear causers

Vampire Counts - Casters Raise lots of Ghouls with 2 varghulfs + graveguard / black knights - this can be a serious pain. I figure going for their support units works better then trying to tangle with the killing blow graveguard of doom with weapon skill 7.

Wood Elves Dual Treeman - Dragons eat treemen and the whole wood elf army seriously takes them way too many bow shots to kill dragons and you can just keep away from the ancient and just burn him with fire spells or charge him with dragon princes. They can hide and tree surf their treemen but then you just go after other units with your mobility.


Treebeard
1 Treeman Ancient @ 375 Pts
General
Annoyance of Netlings
Cluster of Radiants

Yanna
1 Spellsinger @ 175 Pts
Magic Level 2; Lore of Athel Loren; Longbow
Dispel Scroll
Calaingor's Stave

Moonshadow
1 Spellsinger @ 140 Pts
Magic Level 1; Lore of Athel Loren; Longbow
Dispel Scroll
Dispel Scroll

Mythen
1 Noble @ 130 Pts
Battle Standard
Asyendi's Bane
Hail of Doom Arrow

10 Glade Guard @ 120 Pts
Longbow

10 Glade Guard @ 120 Pts
Longbow

8 Dryads @ 96 Pts

8 Dryads @ 96 Pts

8 Dryads @ 96 Pts

6 Glade Riders @ 153 Pts
Spear; Longbow; Musician

6 Elf Steed @ [0] Pts

6 Wild Riders @ 199 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Standard; Musician
War Banner

6 Elf Steed @ [0] Pts

8 Wardancers @ 144 Pts
Wardancer Weapons

3 Warhawk Riders @ 120 Pts
Spear; Longbow

3 Warhawk @ [0] Pts

Lindenroot
1 Treeman @ 285 Pts

Casting Pool: 5

Dispel Pool: 5

Models in Army: 72


Total Army Cost: 2249

I wanted a Tree army around the time I was watching Lord of the Rings so I made a dual Treeman, Treekin, Dryad army supported with Elf spellcasters for tree singing. Eventually the Treekin got cut from the list as more archers and dryads were a better fit.

Haven't played this army much lately as I liked the double dragon high elve list I been playing in League and I started Empire with the Karl on a Dragon conversion because that let me have my Dragon and cannons without dogs of war.

I'd really want to play this army again but I just been having a hard time winning against most of the tournament lists these days.

They are really dependent on terrain and the number of forests if you get the woods map you win if you don't well oh well. You do get a free 6 inch wood but it only does so much. This can be quite effective if you have a couple woods and can get off your tree singing but otherwise against the heavy magic defense armies its rough.

Short Army Fluff
This was supposed to be Treebeard's Ent army along with Elf friends.

Matchups

Bretonian RAF
This again really depends on terain if you have the forest advantage you can hide from their units and plan counter charges if not
all flying just is a big pain to deal with. have to protect everything with countercharges.

Daemons - Bloodthirster/Mixed
Cry? how do I kill Bloodthirster with fire axe he just kills treemen. Bloodthirster and 10 power dice and I can't just slam their horrors with something that hits really hard and can't be burned to cut down their magic fast, alot of hiding in the forests if available.


Daemons - Kairos/Lord of Change Magic
see above except no blodthirster.

Dwarves - Thorek Gunline
Treesurfing if possible and hitting the flank although their anti magic is pretty good.

Empire - dual steam tank + Karl on dragon or arch lector on war alter
curls up in ball now. Just can't hid from everything and no high strength weapons to kill off the dragon or steam tanks makes it difficult. they also have good magic defense so can shut down tree singing.

High Elves Star Dragon calvary
Cry? can't kill stardragon. they move to fast.

High Elves Teclis
Shadow lore and pit of shades on treemen makes me cry. Have to play points denial and hide treemen and hit their support units to try for a minor victory. try and widdle down teclis unit with bowfire and combined charge it as its all their eggs usually.

Lizardmen - 2nd Gen Slan, heavy on sallies, skinks, nike
hit and go seek with dinosaurs joy. again really dependent on terrain.

Ogres - 3 butchers and a tyrant
the treeline is pretty good. have to soften up the tyrant unit with bow fire though and hit it with multiple units.

Skaven SAD
Treesurf into their line and let the rat slaughter begin.

Vampire Counts - Casters Raise lots of Ghouls with 2 varghulfs + graveguard / black knights
Just lose. This match up just makes me cry and want to sell my wood elf army. Boyfriend just massacres me every time. small skirmishers just can't win against the big undead blocks. the best bet is to go for the support but even they hit pretty hard. If I didn't spend so much time making Treebeard and Lindenroot and the Ents there would be a wood elf army for sale ad on this board.

Wood Elves Dual Treeman
mirror matches highly unlikely I played like one my who life.


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## Hudson (Jun 3, 2008)

:shok: well thats certainly comrehensive


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## Grotzly (Jul 6, 2008)

warhammer cool ill collect empire


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

very interesting read actually, although there are a few of your abbrviations that don't make too much sense straight away. whats a nike?

I think the Double dragon analogy vs daemons is slighty off, however i don't know exactly what lists youv'e faced. Surely Bloodletters rip through dragons princes quite easily and fiends are pretty good vs cav with there huge movement value. 
Also with regards to the Thirster. If someone has a flaming weapon, it also does normal damage. See immunities in the Rulebook. i can't find this part in the rulebook now, which is somewhat annoying as i'm sure i had it pointed out to me in a game when using my high elves once.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

WOuld love to see pic's of these armies?

For me this is one of the most interesting fant posts ive read in quite some time. Being a Competative gamer at heart but never having attended a proper Fantasy tournament. I intend to rectify this by going to heat 2 of the fantasy gt this year.

My decisions are between Dark ELves, high elves, and Ogres

Also can i ask why you refer to Ogre's and say you need to watch for fanatics? Something about the rules for the league


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

I agree jigplums, and pics work be good, me persionly I would go with high elves


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