# Question/Thoughts on Pariah?



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I've just picked this up, up to about Chapter 6. It's certainly very different to most 40K Novels in the same way Eisenhorn and Ravenor were. I'm kinda struggling to remember how Bequin came into Eisenhorns employ and am wondering if I should go back and re-read E and R before continuing?

Is this worthwhile or if somebody gives me a quick "spoiler"/reminder on how that happened will it be all good?

I know this book is a bit controversial in it's plot and hasn't been well received by some so for those who have read it could you chuck the discussion in spoiler tags?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I would say just keep reading. I think I figured out what the sketch was early enough on, but kept on reading without going back to E or R to check anyway. All will become clear eventually, so yeah, my advice is keep reading.

As a massive fan of both Eisenhorn and Ravenor, I really liked it and am looking forward to the rest of 'The Bequin Trilogy'.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I don't think it's necessary to go back and read the first two trilogies. Remember, one of the key things about the Bequin Trilogy is that she actually _doesn't_ know Eisenhorn, Ravenor, their retinues, or their relationship to the woman she's named for (and never met). In that sense, not remembering all the characters is kind of a strength - it puts you more in the narrator's perspective.

I thought it was a good novel as well. I found the first couple of chapters slow going (and kept wanting to shout, ...



... "You're not Inquisitors in training, you silly girl! You're the unwitting pawn of the Cognitae!!!"), ...

... but everything turned out well. I just hope the cliffhanger/big reveal near the end is handled well in the subsequent novels. Those done with Book One will know what I mean...

Also, Teke...



... is the best take on the Emperor's Children... EVER. I mean that.

I have zero interest in the traditional take on the III Legion and their bizarro "louder, faster, brighter colors, etc.," antics. It was always a tired theme and it has only gotten more trite with time. Teke it the perfect representation of a millennia-old Emperor's Child: a soul driven by self-gratification, suffused with the power of the Warp, twisted into something horrific, but driven by its ego to project an image of false beauty.

That's a far more elegant take on the sort of "heart of darkness" ten millennia of service to Slaanesh would bring about. Contrast it to the current standard, which amounts to imbibing drugs, painting armour in garish colors and mounting a freaking loud-speaker over one's mouth. 

Things the author actually tasked with bringing to life that Legion and its Primarch should probably consider... I'll just leave it at that.

Wait. No, I won't. Without wishing to be rude, it's becoming obvious that two authors are doing a damn good job of taking the broad stereotypes that most of the Legions were in the original background material, and making them relatable and engrossing for the reader. The rest should take notice: the bar has been set higher.


OK, sidebar rant over! :biggrin:


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## aerogems (May 16, 2013)

As I recall, in Eisenhorn, she was a 

prostitute on the planet where Eisnhorn met Fischig (or however it's spelled). He figured out she had the Pariah gene and recruited her.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Keep reading. It will all become clear later on.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> I don't think it's necessary to go back and read the first two trilogies. Remember, one of the key things about the Bequin Trilogy is that she actually _doesn't_ know Eisenhorn, Ravenor, their retinues, or their relationship to the woman she's named for (and never met). In that sense, not remembering all the characters is kind of a strength - it puts you more in the narrator's perspective.




I almost see this as a spoiler of sorts, granted I figured out very, very early on that Bequin was obviously not *the* Bequin and was likely a clone or something. But it seems a rather large amount of readers never figured this out till it was spelled out for them, assuming she was amnesic or something, even though she's quite clearly younger among other giveaways.

I'm also really looking forward to finding out where the 'I am Apharius' comment leads.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I thought the concept of the whole...book somewhat interesting. But do we really need 270 pages of it? I think 60 pages of it would have sufficed. 

In a trilogy, I don't think we could have afforded to waste almost an entire book on setting up the situation. Not when we already have an established background from the other trilogies.

I struggled until we got the reveal. Here's hoping the last two books go smoother.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

That's the thing, though. I don't think the first book was simply setting up a choice of who to follow. Rather, I think its point was to set up the larger conflict that the two Inquisitors will find themselves pulled into... and the choices they will force Bequin to make as a result.

I suppose, however, that one would be within their rights to wonder if said conflict could have been focused on a bit more (as opposed to the innuendo 'Pariah' relied on for the most part).


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## Znoz (Feb 9, 2013)

I hope Wystan Frauka is still alive.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

hailene said:


> I thought the concept of the whole...book somewhat interesting. But do we really need 270 pages of it? I think 60 pages of it would have sufficed.
> 
> In a trilogy, I don't think we could have afforded to waste almost an entire book on setting up the situation. Not when we already have an established background from the other trilogies.
> 
> I struggled until we got the reveal. Here's hoping the last two books go smoother.


So I finished it and I whole heartily agree with the above statement. 

Up until the reveal it was a little hard going even with the obvious hints that all was not as it seemed and being able to pick out or guess who characters actually were.

Once the reveal happened it was back to the same dark flavor of the previous books. Fuck I'm interested to see where the Alpha Legion connection goes and the character growth of Ravenor is very interesting. He's one hell of a hard bastard now. I'm most looking forward to seeing a show down between Nayl and Kara and Kys. I can't imagine that being pretty.


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

Been a long time since I red that, could you please clarify me these doubts? 

1) What the warp were doing Word Bearers marines hidden inside a cathedral? 

What about that Cardinal, was he just senile or corrupted? 

And this yellow king...any hints in tj the book about his identity?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Romanov77 said:


> Been a long time since I red that, could you please clarify me these doubts?
> 
> 1) What the warp were doing Word Bearers marines hidden inside a cathedral?
> 
> ...




1) I understood it as the local church has been corrupted, possibly by the influence of the Blackwards. Queen Mab was in a pretty bad place, Cogniate training school, the Glaw family running around and so it stands to reason that the Church had been twisted by the likes of the Word Bearers. I could be wrong though.

2) Both I think. Possibly one the latter because of the former

3) Well Ravenor thinks it's Eisenhorn and Beta thought it was at one point but Eisenhorn denies it. I think this is what will drive a lot of the intrigue over the next two books. It's a bit early to tell at the moment. Even if Eisenhorn isn't him then there is no reason that Thorn isn't trying to find the "word" for the same reason.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I really enjoyed the book. I found the Emperor's Children psyker to be suitably fruity


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

Thanks Jacobite. 

The yellow king was something Lovecraft related, if I remember correctly. Abnett clearly took inspiration. 

It was something bad...something really nasty.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

As I understand it, at least 3 fractions of the old traitor Legions has a personal interest in this (EC, WB and AL). It will be highly interesting to see about that. I read someone had a theory Fulgrim himself would appear in the trilogy, but I can't confirm that.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I'm going to be very interested to see where the 

Alpha Legion link is going to go. Why are they so interested in the Pariah programme?


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> I'm going to be very interested to see where the
> 
> Alpha Legion link is going to go. Why are they so interested in the Pariah programme?




This could be a link to the HH-novel Legion about Alpha Legion still being loyalist, a way to fight Chaos.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Abnett being the author of both, that's what I'm thinking yeah.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Is it just me, or regarding Bequin...


did anyone else feel just a little less invested in her when you found out she wasn't actually Bequin? Don't get me wrong, I still love the novel, can't wait for the rest of the series and do like Beta, but I can still remember being a little disappointed that it wasn't Bequin herself. I'm still holding out for the actual Beqiun to appear somehow.

Who else is also dreading the deaths of Nayl, Kara and Kys? Or evryone for that matter. I really don't see many coming out of this one alive. I'm just waiting on Nayl either having to kill Kara, Kys or Ravenor and either doing it for the former two, getting killed by the latter or turning back to Ravenors side and getting killed by Eisenhorn or Cherubael. Either way I just don't see it ending well for Nayl.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> Is it just me, or regarding Bequin...
> 
> 
> did anyone else feel just a little less invested in her when you found out she wasn't actually Bequin? Don't get me wrong, I still love the novel, can't wait for the rest of the series and do like Beta, but I can still remember being a little disappointed that it wasn't Bequin herself. I'm still holding out for the actual Beqiun to appear somehow.
> ...




I was actually rooting for a happy ending between Eisenhorn and Bequin for one freaking minute at least. I do think that since she is just a clone without any memories, it surely have removed some invested emotion in her. We do know Ravenor comes out pretty bad, but he is never made traitor in the Gaunts-series. His followers are a bit different on the other hand.


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## Khyzer (Dec 22, 2012)

forkmaster said:


> I was actually rooting for a happy ending between Eisenhorn and Bequin for one freaking minute at least. I do think that since she is just a clone without any memories, it surely have removed some invested emotion in her. We do know Ravenor comes out pretty bad, but he is never made traitor in the Gaunts-series. His followers are a bit different on the other hand.




As I remember it being mentioned in one of the Gaunt novels, Ravenor actually has probably the worst death of anybody from the Eisenhorn/Ravenor gang. Atleast the worst death out of the group that was publicly made to the universe that is... And with Nayl... I am about equal emotional levels as I am with Varl from Gaunt's Ghosts... I will weep like a child when they are eventually killed off


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Khyzer said:


> As I remember it being mentioned in one of the Gaunt novels, Ravenor actually has probably the worst death of anybody from the Eisenhorn/Ravenor gang. Atleast the worst death out of the group that was publicly made to the universe that is... And with Nayl... I am about equal emotional levels as I am with Varl from Gaunt's Ghosts... I will weep like a child when they are eventually killed off




It never mentions how or when he dies though does it? I just seem to remember a brief sentence between Gaunt and Felyx, when Felyx says "he died badly didn't he" or words to that effect, with no more information on the details, or any mention of Eisenhorn or any of their agents.

But yes, both Nayl and Varl are going to die, I'm certain of it, and I'm really dreading both occasions.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Unfortunately, GG haven't had a major character dead in a while, so I'm dreading one might be picked off in the next entry!


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm certaintly interested in reading more about loyalist Alpha Legion in 40K. Would be awesome if Dan writes a 40K AL series


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

forkmaster said:


> Unfortunately, GG haven't had a major character dead in a while, so I'm dreading one might be picked off in the next entry!


Indeed.
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126054


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## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

Read Pariah...it was good read. Looking forward to the next book.




I'm interested to see if there are loyalist faction of the Alpha Legion and how they are playing out in this book. I also like the way Abnett show case the Emperor Children. 

The Emperor children wants to attack the Yellow King,..who ever that is , which makes me wonder if the yellow king is of Alpha Legion origin. I mean its not uncommon for chaos to fight against each other but my theory is what if this cognitae might of been orchestrated by the Alpha Legion to be used for their own gain? 
Just guessing here, 
 

In which Gaunt Ghost novels was Ravenor mentioned?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Spheres of Longing (written by Ravenor) is mentioned pretty frequently especially in the earlier books as it's one of Gaunts favorite books.


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## Vitarus (Apr 9, 2012)

So any news on Penitent?? I can't find anything anywhere.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Slightly OT, but in preparation for reading Pariah, I recently reread the Eisenhorn trilogy, and intended on doing the same with Ravenor, but I really didn't enjoy the Ravenor books the first time around, so am reluctant to go at them again. My question is, is Pariah written as a sequel to either trilogy, or does it stand alone similar to how Ravenor does to Eisenhorn?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Khorne's Fist said:


> Slightly OT, but in preparation for reading Pariah, I recently reread the Eisenhorn trilogy, and intended on doing the same with Ravenor, but I really didn't enjoy the Ravenor books the first time around, so am reluctant to go at them again. My question is, is Pariah written as a sequel to either trilogy, or does it stand alone similar to how Ravenor does to Eisenhorn?


Probably not no. Lots of the twists in _Pariah_ rely on you having read _Eisenhorn_ and _Ravenor_, or at least knowing what happened in them.


LotN


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I would it is like Ravenor is to Eisenhorn, sequel but you have to get to the ending to connect all dots.


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