# Versus... Archaon (7th)



## squeek

Hi all,

Continuing with the Fantasy Versus... series, next on the list is Archaon (suggested by Vaz and Inquistor Aurelius). If you want to add your suggestions as to who Fantasy Versus should deal with next, go here for the general thread.

So, Archaon, how do you combat arguably one of the most powerful killing machines in the game? Armour Ignoring attacks with 10 Strength 5 Attacks, a 1+ Armour Save and a 3+ Ward Save. He also has reasonable MR, can cast spells, -1 to hit against him, causes Terror and acts like a BSB to all within 12 so autobreaking him with fear doesnt work either! Archaon kills most characters with ease and with a unit on the charge he is nigh on unstoppable.

So how do you plan to combat him? Do you have a preferred unit or tactic that works every time? Do you just rely on shooting and artillery and hope your opponent fails the saves enough? Are you always able to counter with tarpit or equally powerful units?

If you are one of _those players_ who uses him regularly what tactics work against you?


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## Tiberius

Back in the day, 4X Reaper Bolt Throwers and the Spell Conflageration of Doom. Not sure if the spell is still available, however since most Chaos boys usually single rank their Knights. The Bolts make them pink mist.


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## Whizzwang

1- goblin

2- Magic item - Archaon is not allowed to take ward saves

3- Magic item - I'll have your armour save and ward save

4- Magic Weapon - additional -3 save to you

5- send in your best mate the giant

6- Kiss your little green ass goodbye if it doesn't work right. I have about a 70% success rate killing him

Awesome against any high armour + ward saving girls who can't man up on the battlefield. p


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## Othiem

To steal a term from Warcraft3, surround and pound. However, I only played one game against him.

Shot up his unit as much as possible before it could reach combat. He ends up charging into a unit of spears with the general in it. VHS on the general allows him to miraculously survive the challenge, then used rod of command to hold the unit. Next turn, pistoliers charge from the rear, KOs from the side, win combat easily and the unit breaks. Still lost the game though, as he'd managed to wipe out too much of my army before I could get the general into combat with him.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius

Your statline's a bit muddled - he's only got a 1+ Armour save, but a _3+_ Ward. Yes, I know. Evil. Personally, I think the "Grimgor Rule" should apply to Archaon as well. Kholek too, for that matter.

That said, it's possible to tool a Chaos Lord with the MoN to (almost) be able to go toe-to-toe with him. Granted, I've never tried it, but it works in theory. What you do is take a Chaos Lord and give him the Mark of Nurgle, a Chaos Runesword and the Armour of Damnation (which should make Dorghar a non-factor). Archaon should then be hitting on fives, which need to be rerolled if successful, allowing for a greater chance of a one being rolled and thus hitting himself or a friendly model in base contact. Since this will probably be one of the Swords of Chaos, a clever player will allocate the hit to Archaon himself, and (if you're very lucky) a wound will be caused. The math goes something like this:

10 attacks
~1.7 ones
~3.3 hits, rerolled for
~1.1 hits and
~0.6 ones (for a total of ~2.3)

So he hits the enemy once and himself twice. Now there's about half a wound (or one wound in two turns) on Archaon's opponent and one on himself, which he'll fail to save about a third of the time. Then the other player gets his attacks:

6 attacks from the Lord himself (7 with the BoR, but we'll ignore that since it's provisional)
2 hits
~1.3 wounds.

Of course with Archaon's Armour and Ward saves, you're likely looking at him saving practically everything you throw at him, but you'll still average about a third of a wound per turn, which combined with the damage he'll do to himself means that he'll take wounds as quickly as you will. True, he'll win eventually, but he'll be tied into futile combat for most of the game by a model worth not much more than half his points. And if your Lord should be camped in a unit of Chosen with the MoN, GWs, the Blasphemous Amulet and the Festering Shroud (or Banner of Rage, if you want some extra attacks instead), the Swords will start dropping like flies. Even Archaon might lose a wound to the magic items, if you're extremely lucky. Basically, it's a high-cost tarpit custom built for an even higher-cost hammer unit. You'll probably keep winning combat, but the Swords should stay put. And if they ever do get out of it, they'll be crippled.

For all that, though, it still won't beat Archaon - just mitigate him for a while (hopefully all or most of the game). If anyone knows how to take the bastard down, I'm all ears.


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## MaidenManiac

Youre missing a few things Squeek:
Attacking Archaon in cc is at -1 to hit(yes so roughly everything except Bloodthirsters hits him on 5+):scare:
He causes Terror and acts like a BSB to all within 12 so autobreaking him with fear doesnt work either!
He also has quite good MR and can cast spells himself too.

Archaon is one of those characters where GW really have tried to think when they made him, just like they've done with the C'Tans in 40k. All things they have given him is to make it neigh impossible to kill him

Unless you can come up with some cleaver item combination out of those in your armylist to deny him something it will be hard to stop him.
Just like a bunch of other "kick ass special characters" its probably better to just babysit him. Unlike Grimgor though Archaon is mounted so this will be alot harder to do! The best bet on killing him will most likely be artillery and hope that he goofs his wardsave, or one of those "5 PD casted Bolt of Change/Infernal Gateway" and hope for a IF and lots of hits and S

Basically its anomalities that will kill this guy. In a 2k battle he and his Knights will be ½ the army points, that means almost nothing else in the army, kill the rest and deny him points and win that way instead of futile attempts in CC with him:good:
Bringing this guy to a friendly game is like bringing an M4 to a paintballgame. Its simply not fair:laugh:


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## squeek

MaidenManiac said:


> Youre missing a few things Squeek:
> Attacking Archaon in cc is at -1 to hit(yes so roughly everything except Bloodthirsters hits him on 5+):scare:
> He causes Terror and acts like a BSB to all within 12 so autobreaking him with fear doesnt work either!
> He also has quite good MR and can cast spells himself too.


Cheers Maiden, I was in a bit of a rush with this last one and forgot to go back and add all the various nasty rules.


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## Vaz

MaidenManiac said:


> The best bet on killing him will most likely be artillery and hope that he goofs his wardsave, or one of those "5 PD casted Bolt of Change/Infernal Gateway" and hope for a IF and lots of hits and S


Don't talk to me about that. Cast a 3 PD Infernal Gateway, Treble 6, rolled for hits - 12 - looking good! My opponent thinks I'm using fixed dice, and hands me his - doesn't help then that for strength I roll a 2.

Still, it was funny that I killed a Knight and wounded Archaon.

I'll come up with Archaons main weaknesses later when I have more time, but for now, Archaon isn't as weak against Hordes as he was before. 

First things though, the Nurgle Lord isn't as powerful against Archaon.

The Lord has WS8, and Archaon WS9. Archaons effect is -1 to hit. Not -1 WS which is different from the Lords MoN. This means that Archaon hits on 4's (successful re-roll - 50% hit first, 25% hit after re-roll, 2 hit Archaon, 1 of which wounds, saved by Ward, wounds Chaos Lord on a 4, (12.5%, so 1-2 wounds, which unless the Lord has an Armour Save will be dead in the next combat), while the Lord hits on 5's (Wounds on 3's, Saved on 2's, ward on 3's - out of 6 attacks, this results in 2 hits, 1-2 wounds, saved by the double save).

In the end, it's not too effective, and neither does Archaon target members of his unit if he hits himself voluntarily if he has lots of wounds remaining, he should target himself, where he has a 3+ Ward to save, and requires a 4+ to wound, rather than a 3+.

He is 'only' Strength 5, though. In the end, an Unbreakable unit is the way to go, but stubborn will do at a Pinch, with a General, with BSB nearby. That bane of all Hammer units, the Dwarven Hammerers (strange that they're an Anvil unit, but are called Hammerers, eh well). Oh boy, even with Terror, that Ld 10 will help, or even they can be immune to it thanks to their Runic Standards.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius

Bollocks - I screwed up the hit chart in my head. But you're forgetting about the Runesword - so they hit each other on fours, and the Lord wounds on threes. So Archaon gets:

10 attacks
2.5 hits (after reroll)
1.25 wounds;

while the Lord gets:

6 attacks
3 hits
2 wounds, of which
0.3 get through Archaon's saves.

Evil bastard. But still, the Lord can tie him up for a bit, which is really the point. And don't forget that Archaon should still be taking almost a wound a turn from his own attacks, unless he wants to kill a couple of the Swords. All in all, it's only the fact that the Lord has one less wound to begin with that keeps them from being almost evenly matched. And all that for, as I said, not much more than half Archaon's points.

If you prefer, there's also the Khornate Lord that Archaon can't wound who gets a one in nine chance on any given round of killing him instantaneously...


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## Green Knight

The way I would Versus Archaon is by funny killing blow attacks, yes he has a 3+ ward but it is funny if a wight lord manages to kill him. The next is a giant puting him in his trousers. There is of corse magic, using spells like beast cowers on him, to stop him from doing anything in the game. There is massive unbrakeable units or undead units like zombies to keep him busy. As well as this there is my method destroying his powerful magical items one by one with vauls unmaking, or magical items that negate his magical items.


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## Dafistofmork

Well, iv never met archon, but if i did i would just ignore him, and take out the rest of his army. he costs loads of points (im assuming), so whatever else your opponet has there wont be a lot of it. 2000pts of dwarf artilay is gona hurt (roughly) 1300pts of warriors!


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## Vaz

Dwarf Artillery has got to be focused on where to hit properly. Archaon can target the War Machines with Magic, is more than likely supported by a Sorceror or two, and can take on ranged units with no danger. Hell - You need 5's to wound him with Handguns.


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## Captain Galus

The only thing I've ever seen take down Archaon would be sheer luck. That guy is resistant to anything a player could throw at him, and then some.

One time I took him out with 3 RBTs though...granted, I did get some lucky rolls. It took me three turns to do it, btw.


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## Ascendant Valor

Captain Galus said:


> One time I took him out with 3 RBTs though...



Archaon's weakness: A LOT of High Elves!:grin:

Oh, and sustained firepower (a LOT of firepower). And losing combat (a LOT of combat).


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## Dafistofmork

Vaz said:


> Dwarf Artillery has got to be focused on where to hit properly. Archaon can target the War Machines with Magic, is more than likely supported by a Sorceror or two, and can take on ranged units with no danger. Hell - You need 5's to wound him with Handguns.


well, thats what the anvil is for then, isn't it?


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## Vaz

Tada Wulfrik =D. Granted, that's another character, but it generally is now, you can't rely on Archaon to do all the damage. You could in the previous edition, despite not being as resilient. (5+ Ward - what madness?) I use Archaon to tank - pop him in a unit of 9 Knights, and you get ItP Knights, either with Mark of Tzeentch and Blasted Standard or Mark of Nurglewith Banner of Rage to just smash through anything, and you'll be so shit scared, hopefully, that everything goes into killing Archaon. Meanwhile, the Marauders, Warriors and Str 7 Dragon Ogres are the ones who do the real damage.

Archaon's most efficient use is as a Tank - he's built for it - can't be wounded on 2's, 1+ Armour Save, and a 3+ Ward Save, and the possiblity to get Regeneration, he becomes what Tyrion is for the High Elves, and Malekith (despite him being generally Anti Character, but a Dragon sort of makes that easier to counter) is for the Dark Elves. Just better.


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## whirlwindofdecay

I Like to double charge him with ancient stegadons with engines, the 2 times i got it to work, he died both times from overrun, because he was the only one left. but basicly any spell you have that negates armor saves will wittle that unit into nothing.


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## Mushkilla

I know this thread is old but here is a fun one for killing the lord of end times:

To best the lord of End times we must return to his roots... The humble worshipers of Sigmar. 

Arch lector:
heavy armour, barded warhorse, Sword of fate, shield of the Gorgon, Van horstmann's speculum. 247pts

The arch lector has very bad stats which is perfect to use with the speculum just swap your stats for his. Now he has W4 T4 S4 A2 I4 and you have WS9 S5 T5 I7 A5. 
The shield reduces his number of attacks by 1 so even If he unleashes the daemon he will have 3 S4 attacks that ignore armour. 

The only thing you need to watch out for is his mounts 3 S5 attacks which you will still get a 4+ save against.

The sword of fate lets you wound on 2+(3+ against him), ignore armour and your wounds multiply into D3.

Arch lector's re-roll to hit so you will get 5 attacks that wound on 3+, ignore armour multiply into D3 wounds,hit on 4+ and re-roll to hit. Additionally archaon and his mount will only hit you on 5+.

To top it all off you make sure you have enough magic in your army to you can get the prayer of sigmar "Armour of contempt" off so that you have a 4+ ward save.

It helps if you get the charge off on the lord of end times, the solution could be to run the lector on foot and use a wizard with the lore of shadows to hurl him at archaon. If you do this it may be best to take the armour of meteoric iron instead of the shield of the gorgon. (build is slightly cheaper 220pts).

Have fun ^^


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## The Son of Horus

The real way to beat Archaeon is to feed him garbage units and spend your time murdering the army he's with. Even he can't carry a flank on his own, and he's pushing the 700 point mark, so unless you brought a ridiculous iconic named character as well, you've likely got the advantage, point-for-point, across your regiments.


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## Tim/Steve

With ogres I think I can quite easily beat him and his unit: the 7 units of ironguts I get for his price mill about the board, fleeing from him if he charges... openning up flank charges for the others (my experience has been that in a 3-1 its impossible to avoid getting flank charged... so a 7-1 should go my way).
9 S6 attacks against 2 knights should mean I win the fight (even if I dont have characters in my unit), so even if archaon moves next turn to get into the combat phase he still can only destroy 1 144pt unit... meanwhile my other units can set up charges for if he doesnt move or if my unit breaks and pursues: it might be very hard to break him since I wouldnt expect to win by more then 1-2 (should average 1.5) but there is a chance that he will- if all he is doing is destroying 1/7 of his units points every other player turn then he isnt doing too well (especially if everytime it happens he has a 3-8% chance of breaking).... meanwhile his army is toast: if you give ogres a big points advantage for the remainder of the army they have a tendency to run strait over the remnants very quickly with very little effort (especially if I have brahmir statue+skullmantle in 1 unit and cast braingobbler out of that unit: chaos/skaven would be taking panic checks at -4).
Could try a slavegiant but since archaon would have to make a 3+ 2+ to hit/wound the giant to slap his hand away its unlikely to work.

With HE I simply havent a clue... a dragon in the flank/rear would work... as might spamming lore of metal at his unit (tyrion/book of hoeth would work great), but I have nothing that would be really immense.


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## Karnox

Spirit of the forge.

also I beat him by flanking him and beating him in combat, so he broke and ran off the table like the girl he is. But that was Hordes of Chaos archaon.
As for Warriors of chaos Archaon... well I usually dont have to face him because I am him so I tend not to worry about it.


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## NagashKhemmler

Chaos Runeshield +Axe of Khorne on a chaos dragon .

You'll hit him with about 13 attacks, 5 hits, 3 wounds, 1 a turn getting through, he'll be getting similar back...The dragon will also be more effective in terms of breaking other units AND is about the same points.....with a total wounds stat of 9, compared to 4...nuff said.


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## Freedirtyneedles

my character killer(seems like EVERYONE I play against uses a special character)
chaos lord of nurgle.
chaos runeshield and axe of khorne. the killing blow will make people cry hehehehe.
so far I've killed grimgor twice,the grand theowhatevertheheck he's called and held tyrion at bay.if I could afford a dragon I'd slap him on one,but for now he's on a nurgle mount, those crappy poison attacks will suprise ya sometimes.


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## olderplayer

Archaon is one of the most undercosted Lords and is extremely difficult to kill in cc. However, with 4 Wounds, Archaon (while immune to poison) can be vulnerable to killing blow and attacks that ignore or can overcome his 1+ AS. Also, the Slayer he uses can only give double attacks at the risk of Archaon hitting himself on 1's with no AS allowed. That means that invoking the Daemon in the sword will cause one to two hits to Archaon per turn. (That is why I only use the double attack option in the last couple of turns of the game if Archaon still has his 3 to 4 wounds and need to finish off a unit for the VPs.) In many instances, the 3+ ward save is the greater annoyance to deal with, sort of like the annoyance of dealing with the 5+ ward save given to Daemon of Chaos army models. The best attacks are those shooting attacks that can punch through, punish or penetrate the high AS. The MR(2) makes magic attacks less cost-effective but still worthwhile attempting in most cases, although often it is better to use the magic to cripple the rest of his supporting army. 

Archaon does not have flying and, while having the ability to cast, is only a Lvl. 2 Sorceror. He's not worth his points if left to act as a Lvl 2 Sorc. That means he must get into cc to be worth his points and effective. Given his wound total, he is usually not alone and is best employed with a hammer unit of Knights (which are a required unit in the army to use him, anyway). This reduces his flexibility. Thus, the best strategy is to march block, delay and distract, bait and flee, and pick off the models in the supporting unit he is in. Given the leadership and other benefits, Archaon is best employed with mobile companion units (hounds as partial screens and flank protection), Marauder Horsement (Mos, flails and thown weapons to meet the core requirement and run with Archaon) to protect flanks and provide a fast, mobile threat, and Dragon Ogres and additional Knight units within range. 

Also, Archaon is often best when matched with Sorcerors on mounts (e.g. MoT Sorcs on Discs or Mounts with magic items like bloodcurdling roar and protective magic items to boost As and ward saves are quite cost-effective and potent) or at 3000 points with Villitch (steals dice from failed cast and dispel attempts by opponents) protected in a strong, well protected warrior unit. The lack of significant shooting for WoC armies means that they need to emphasize magic offense and defense in many cases. 

In cc, it is common to use a champ challenging Archaon to reduce the damage and number of models killed in the first round of cc, but the Eye of the Gods means that he gets additional gifts/boosts every time he kills a character or champ or high value target. The best tactic of march blocking, delay and distract, etc. is only partially effective in most battles but well worth it to just buy a turn or two more before Arachaon and his unit catches something. If Archaon's unit is picked off (Knights are high value, high VP models worth shooting at), then one can cut down his effectiveness and ensure static CR once in cc. If the unit Archaon is in has frenzy, then the ability to bait and flee and distract is greatly enhanced. Also, hitting the flanks and rear of his supporting and own unit and avoid direct contact with Archaon is valuable. Look for great tar pits (Plague bearer of Nurgle unit with a herald of Nurgle that has gifts that ensure CR and make base contact models strike last is often very effective delaying Archaon in cc and reducing his damage count for some turns but is often too slow to ensure the match-up occurs. A Saurus warrior unit can sometimes last a few turns with the cold-blooded LD. VC units that can be regenerated each turn are also really annoying.) and cheap bait and flee units can sacrifice themselves to pull Archaon out of position for a couple of turns and free up other units to take out Archaon's supporting cast. If one can cut his supporting unit at least in half or entirely, then those VPs will help offset the VP's lost as the tar pit unit in cc gets eaten up. The high points cost of Archaon and high costs of the better WoC models/units means that one can often outnumber the rest of his army. 

Archaon is not legal in most tourneys and games I play, but, when legal (special characters month at GW and 'Ard Boys-type tourneys), he makes an optimal WoC army more than competitive with the best DoC, DE and VC armies that were the top three armies in tourneys last year, whereas WoC is competitive but generally inferior to those three armies at 2000 to 2500 points when special characters are not allowed.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius

Quick note: as of the WoC errata, killing unit champions in challenges doesn't net a roll on Eye of the Gods.


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## olderplayer

Good point, forgot about that. Just don't get to play Archaon enough to remember that. Also, one issue is that WoC characters must challenge when able, so that virtually guarantees that the champ will be able to sacrifice himself for the sake of the unit at least on turn one (which is all he'll last excepting a miracle or some special ability).


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## Inquisitor Aurelius

VC and TK are great for this - since the command group is always the first thing to be resurrected, you have a sacrificial unit champion every other round. A 40-man unit of skellies is a tarpit that Archaon and co. will never, ever leave. A big fat unit of Grave Guard would do the job even better, if he's fool enough to charge them, particularly if backed up by a Corpse Cart and the Staff of Damnation and/or Book of Arkhan. They'll peel off the Swords like nobody's business, and Archaon will lose combat sooner or later (sooner if you throw a fresh-from-the-ground pack of zombies at his rear for the CR bonus). Not being Stubborn, there's a fair chance he'll flee, only to be pulled down by the gribbly little bastards standing behind him. I've never tried it, but I'm sure the look on the other guy's face would be hilarious.

Serves him right for bringing Archaon.


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## The Son of Horus

Since Archaeon is crazy expensive, and he's not riding around on his own, you can just murder the rest of the army, and feed him cheap units. You should be able to overwhelm the two units of Warriors in the army, and Marauders are running naked dudes. Have a unit of 20 Goblins/State Troops/Skaven Slaves/ whatever? Feed 'em to Archaeon, and make sure that he's tied down killing junk the entire game instead of doing anything actually useful. 

You can also just shoot him. Anything pointy-eared, Empire, Dwarves, Skaven, and funnily enough Orcs and Goblins can point artillery at his unit and make it disappear. Archaeon then loses to static combat if he makes it, although I've seen him get himself shot by a bolt thrower or cannon every time I've seen him used. 

Another fun little trick, as a Warriors of Chaos player, is to slap the Distendable Maw on somebody and have them fight Archaeon. If you run the numbers, you're more likely to get him to fail a single initiative test than you are to kill him in one round, and there's really not anything in the game that can last two rounds against Archaeon. And when you do get him to roll that 6 on the initiative check, suddenly Dorghar is minus a rider. Archaeon tasty.


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## Orochi

Gonna be honest, he wont be killing Vlad any time soon in CC.

I'm sure Skulltaker would be a good one hit wonder against him too. Granted, if Archaon hits back Skulltaker is fucked, but I'm sure you have a chance.

A Bloodthirster mached out with as many extra attacks as possible.

Or as people keep saying, just tarpit him with zombies or something...

Crom used to be the anti-archaon character..shame he's gone now though.


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## Shadow704

I don't mean to change the topic but I am staring a Warriors of Chaos army and I want to use Archaon (I like how the model looks like and my group plays strict WYSIWYG). Anyone have any advice? Thanks.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Shadow704 said:


> I don't mean to change the topic but I am staring a Warriors of Chaos army and I want to use Archaon (I like how the model looks like and my group plays strict WYSIWYG). Anyone have any advice? Thanks.


Might be best to start a new thread for that mate


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## Vanchet

My unit of 60 Clanrats and my Grey Seer on his Bell and my BSB with Clan Superiority.......That or My Doomwheel XD.....Maybe 2 at once


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## LukeValantine

Best way I can see of beating him is to strip him of his unit then challenge him with a expendable hero in the hopes that he will only over kills by 3 making it slightly possible to defeat him with combat rez....if you also some how charge him in the side (Empire players I'm looking at you)


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## Orochi

Van horstmans speculum? I think thats how It's spelt.


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## Platton725

High Elves can handle Archaon in close combat through either a prince with a Star Dragon and Null talisman (also hilarious versus Vampire Lords, frontally charge and kill him R1/R2) although you need to marchblock and try to strip 2 wounds with Rule of burning iron/soul stealer if you're going to be reasonably sure of killing him.

Archmage with Talisman of Saphery & Forialath's robe works fine too. Since he has the highest LD, he has to challenge, and then he can't do squat (since Dorgar doesn't have magical attacks anymore).

Otherwise an Arch lector on War Altar with Van Horstmann's, Sword of fate & shield of the Gorgon/armour of meteoric iron (depending on wether you feel Dorgar or Archaons S4 no armour save is more dangerous). Archaon has virtually no chance.


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## katarr

I was just about to suggest the star dragon/null talisman combination (the face of any opponent with a magic item reliant character like Archaon is mostly priceless) but it is quite important you get the charge in. I misjudged my charge and failed allowing him to make the charge against me - this only became a problem because Archaon still managed to murder my prince in the first round  . This suddenly puts a 370 point dragon at risk after losing a prince.

I still managed to take him out as Teclis was nearby and I just pounded him with irresistible force Vaul's Unmaking until the dragon could effectively munch on him but christ thats an expensive killing force.


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## Tim/Steve

Um... why are people charging a dragon into Archaon at all? He must be in a unit so just make sure you dont kill any of the knights at all with ranged weapons.. then charge your dragon into either the flank of the unit or just into the block of 3 knights that the WoC player cannot possibly avoid having (and cannot flee from). 
A high elf dragon, especially if you start giving the prince such nasty things as the star lance, talisman of loec or blade of sea gold are going to kill 3-5 knights (if you take one of the magical weapons and the talisman then you should kill all the knights, or get 5-6 wounds ontot eh unit champ if he challenges), so outside of a challenge you'll have won by ~4 wounds and should have killed the WoC banner and musician unless they really are pumping pts into Archies unit (in which case shoot/magic the unit until they have 5 knights left before charging), you'll have outnumber and Archaon will need to pass a Ld 5 test or break... if he does escape and rally then use bolt throwers against him- a 3++ save isnt very much if ts all you have.


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## katarr

Thats all well and good if he stays in the unit of knights but he does not have to. Yes it poses a risk to him to hit himself IF he activated the sword (because he is still a machine without it) but the risk really is not to great. Even if he hits himself he only has a 50% of wounding himself then still has a modified 1+ save and ward save - its unlikely for him to hurt himself.
If your opponent is well versed in using Archaon he will likely separate him from his unit once close combat becomes a likely possibility and have seperate charges or responses to any enemy from the knights and Archaon.


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## MidnightSun

Get a Giant and hope for 3-1, 3-6 or 3-5. I think that you use the 'small things' table for cavalry... they're not really as large as, say, Ogres or Minotaurs. The best ones are Squash, Eat and Stuff into Bag. No armour saves or wards allowed, but the one problem is that the opponent can make one attack against the Giant's hand, if this wounds then the Giant's screwed, as the attack fails and Archaon would get another turn of slicing him up. Poor Giant!

Another possible method is using 'Gork'll Fix It' on his unit and then 'Mork wants Ya!', before charging him with a unit of Black Orcs with Gork's Waaagh! banner, use the extra attack and Great Weapons/Extra Choppaz to smash him up inta little bitz...

Midnight


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