# Is knight commander pask worth it?



## Llamafish (Mar 3, 2009)

I was toying with using the ace in a leman russ vanquisher, most like with a two std leman russ wingmen! 

A) is this a good idea?


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

personally i would put him in a normal russ, vanquishers seem to be a dedicated anti-tank and while yes the "crack shot" and BS4 would help that, i feel it may be better served helping to ensure that the L.Blast template doesn't scatter as far.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

If I use him, I'd stick him in a vanquisher, 5 plasma shots with his accuracy is nothing to laugh at. And the fact tht the first weapon destroyed kills him, means they'll have a hard time getting rid of that 3 plasma cannon burst main gun.


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## Llamafish (Mar 3, 2009)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> If I use him, I'd stick him in a vanquisher, 5 plasma shots with his accuracy is nothing to laugh at. And the fact tht the first weapon destroyed kills him, means they'll have a hard time getting rid of that 3 plasma cannon burst main gun.


sorry i might be being stoopid but aint you speaking of a executioner type? Also he only dies 

"if the leman russ suffers a vehicle destoryed result, then pask is slain"

but i did toy with executioner with pask, side plasman cannons and lascannon (over kill i know) would cost 295 pts!!that all most a macharius!! Oh forget to add a heavy stubber!! 305 pts!!!


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

Llamafish said:


> but i did toy with executioner with pask, side plasman cannons and lascannon (over kill i know) would cost 295 pts!!that all most a macharius!! Oh forget to add a heavy stubber!! 305 pts!!!


Correct on bith points Llamafish, It is the executioner with plasma cannon, and Pask is killed in a vehicle destroyed result (so what happens on a wrecked result, or immobilized?)
as to your idea, very expensive, but very fun, watch your opponents face fall when he sees how many points it could claim in a single turn. One major problem with that setup is range or rather lack of it. By the time either they have come to you or you go to them then chances are it'll either be the end of the turn, or the executioner is dead.


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## CamTheApostle (Oct 31, 2008)

lawrence96 said:


> personally i would put him in a normal russ, vanquishers seem to be a dedicated anti-tank and while yes the "crack shot" and BS4 would help that, i feel it may be better served helping to ensure that the L.Blast template doesn't scatter as far.


Improving a whole 1" of scatter doesn't really seem worth the cost. He won't improve your chances to hit very greatly, and his tank hunter ability is wasted against non-vehicles. Even fielding him in a punisher seems a waste simply because you will only improve the average number of hits by 3.

I would rather field him as a dedicated tank killer, only fielding Pask in a vanquisher against armies I know will have vehicles that need his special AT ability. That seems the limits to the bargain.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

> and his tank hunter ability is wasted against non-vehicles.


::cough:: Re-roll to wound MCs ::cough.cough::



> Improving a whole 1" of scatter doesn't really seem worth the cost.


BS 4 over BS3 doubles the chances of rolling equal-to or less than your BS on the scatter (so a "Hit" essentially) as well as reducing the scatter by 1".

2d6 combos that add up to 3=3
2d6 combos that add up to 4=6


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

wheras 1" may not seem much on its own, the fact is 1" may be enough to add 1or 2 marines to the tally, or ensure that the shell hits the tank dead on. Thing is a vanquisher will be targetted very quickly by anyone with a mechanised army because that is what will hurt them most. whereas a normal leman russ might not be targetted as quickly. And don't forget additional weapons such as a lascannon.


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## don_mondo (Jan 28, 2007)

Pask and Vanquisher for the win, IMO. Give it a hull lascannon, and you can fire both the LC and Vanq cannon on the move thanks to Lumbering Behemoth. 72" range meltagun at BS 4, with a +1 to penetrate on top of that? Yes, I'll take it! 

Re vehicle destroyed result. If you look at the vehicle damage chart, you'll notice there are three 'categories' of resutls, crew, damaged and destroyed. So he dies on a destroyed-(wrecked or eplodes). Other results do nothing to him.


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## CamTheApostle (Oct 31, 2008)

DeathKlokk said:


> ::cough:: Re-roll to wound MCs ::cough.cough::
> 
> BS 4 over BS3 doubles the chances of rolling equal-to or less than your BS on the scatter (so a "Hit" essentially) as well as reducing the scatter by 1".
> 
> ...


D'oh! Yeah, you are correct on this assessment, Deathklokk.

However, while my main points may have been disproven, I still think this guy in a Vanquisher would make any AV14 vehicle very scared.


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## Llamafish (Mar 3, 2009)

lawrence96 said:


> wheras 1" may not seem much on its own, the fact is 1" may be enough to add 1or 2 marines to the tally, or ensure that the shell hits the tank dead on. Thing is a vanquisher will be targetted very quickly by anyone with a mechanised army because that is what will hurt them most. whereas a normal leman russ might not be targetted as quickly. And don't forget additional weapons such as a lascannon.


Very true, hence the thinking of two std leman in support, both covering the side armour so the foe can only shoot at the av 14, while i pick off Bloody LR! or DA av 14 land speeder... ask bon jovi on here!! Looking up crack shoot but cant find the rule? 

next question, sponser or not! thinking plasma?


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I looked at pask in a vanquisher with hull lascannon, and that does seem an attractive option. It's expensive, but there's a lot more armour 14 around these days.

I think sponsons are worth it in that you will tend to want to stay still to keep crack shot going, so they should get to fire a lot. On the other hand, they are likely to be wasted a lot of the time. Take them or leave them I'd say. While I don't like the idea of a tank that comes in above 250 points, I also don't like the idea of a tank that has no meaningful effect against horde armies.

On balance I don't think I'd bother with pask. I think he's only worth considering for a vanquisher and vanquishers are bad. Guard players have access to plentiful anti-tank weapons anyway.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Someguy said:


> On balance I don't think I'd bother with pask. I think he's only worth considering for a vanquisher and vanquishers are bad. Guard players have access to plentiful anti-tank weapons anyway.


Sure, but none of it is as resilient or devastating as Pask in a Vanquisher. A Vendetta or whatever can put out alarming amounts of anti-tank firepower, but goes down pretty easily due to its medium AV and inability to easily get cover saves. A Vanquisher can easily shrug off all kinds of firepower.


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## Llamafish (Mar 3, 2009)

Someguy said:


> I looked at pask in a vanquisher with hull lascannon, and that does seem an attractive option. It's expensive, but there's a lot more armour 14 around these days.
> 
> I think sponsons are worth it in that you will tend to want to stay still to keep crack shot going, so they should get to fire a lot. On the other hand, they are likely to be wasted a lot of the time. Take them or leave them I'd say. While I don't like the idea of a tank that comes in above 250 points, I also don't like the idea of a tank that has no meaningful effect against horde armies.
> 
> On balance I don't think I'd bother with pask. I think he's only worth considering for a vanquisher and vanquishers are bad. Guard players have access to plentiful anti-tank weapons anyway.


It would suck against horde army, but saying that i would not use him in that game


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Llamafish said:


> It would suck against horde army, but saying that i would not use him in that game


I think Someguy was coming from a more tournament-like standpoint where you use a fixed army list in a series of games. In one-off games, yes, you do have the option of changing your army as it suits you.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

True. I tend to assume a general army designed to take on all comers. Pask is clearly a lot more useful if you know you are going against tanks. If you are using a lot of tanks yourself then he's even better, as the other guy's AT is going to be stretched.

Pask's limitation is the limitation of the vanquisher he commands rather than a problem with him. I just don't like vanquishers. There's no real point putting Pask in another Russ variant as the rest of them aren't really designed for anti-tank.

I've been thinking a bit more about sponsons for his tank. I suppose he may as well have plasma cannons, because they are great and give him more versatility. That also means that he's never really getting his full value though as he'll either be shooting a tank and seeing the plasma bounce off or firing at infantry and wasting his main gun.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Someguy said:


> I've been thinking a bit more about sponsons for his tank. I suppose he may as well have plasma cannons, because they are great and give him more versatility. That also means that he's never really getting his full value though as he'll either be shooting a tank and seeing the plasma bounce off or firing at infantry and wasting his main gun.


To be honest, I've never really bought into this kind of thinking. A unit doesn't need to be using all of its weapons at 100% effectiveness every turn in order to be useful. There's nothing wrong with blowing the crap out of a tank one turn and frying some infantry in the next, after all.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

That's certainly true, but you are really talking about an expensive tank if you have a vanquisher with Pask, a lascannon and plasma cannons. Still he will mostly be shooting at vehicles or MCs, and all his guns will be worth it against those targets. 

Cost is an interesting one. Once models are on the board you should forget their cost anyway and just do whatever will win you the game. I'd sooner have a unit that was a few points more expensive but could still take part in the game than one which was cheaper (though still not cheap) and could do almost nothing.


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## Lord_Murdock (Jul 16, 2008)

I haven't tried this out yet, but how about Pask in a punisher? BS4, and with all the extra guns and such, that's 32 shots at str. 5 or 4. Not too good against tanks, but remember that pask's ability also lets you re-roll against monstrous creatures. That many shots, re-rolling to would is going to do some serious damage to a carnifex... That, and BS4 is much better than BS3 for a tank like that.


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## Llamafish (Mar 3, 2009)

Suppose that the joy of him, you can just move him from tank to tank, But in a vansiquer with plasma would be ace snipering commanders or other him profile units, step 1) shoot body guards with templates step 2) snipe the 2+ articifer armours fool with the tank.. 

decided to get the van as i love the model, but i still not fully convince it the correct thing... to be honest basilisks are more my thing... but the medusa might over tank it one day


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