# The final moments on Horus' battle barge



## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

Was just reading a thread and noticed Horus Aximand (A.K.A. Little Horus) come up, and apparently he lowered the shields on Horus' battle barge so the Emperor could defeat him. I was after any info people had on the reasons for the shields being lowered, who was with the Emperor and Why, in the name of God, didn't Horus kill the false Emperor?

Thanks :good:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

There are several conflicting reasons from several different sources as to why Horus lowered his shields (If indeed it was Horus at all)

1. He wanted to better witness the Destruction of the Imperium and the death of the Emperor
2. He felt a last minute pang of regret and therefore allowed the Emperor to teleport aboard.
3. Horus knew that Imperial Reinforcements were en route so lowered the shields to tempt the Emperor to attack in a last-minute Gambit.

As to you noticing someone mentioning Aximand lowering the shields, at the moment that is pure speculation and there is no evidence to suggest this, but i guess time will tell when the HH series reaches that far. Personally I liked the fan-theory that it was the Alpha Legion who lowered the shields 

As for who was with the Emperor, he teleported aboard with Sanguinius, Dorn, Some Custodes and Terminators.

And going by the account in HH: Collected Visions Horus wounded the Emperor to the point of death (Ripped his arm off, broke his ribs, broke his spine, severed arteries, poked his eye out aswell as countless other injuries), the Emperor using his last strength and the full force of his psychic might was able to obliterate Horus' soul.


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

After _Galaxy In Flames_ people theorized that Aximand lowered the shields, based on how he felt at the end on that book. This is a relatively spoiler free response. Dunno if youve read the book and i didnt wanna ruin it for you.

The people who went up with the Emp were Sanguinius, Rogal Dorn, Custodians, and some terminators. i hear who actually went up (aside from the primarchs) changes with time.

Horus didnt kill the Emp because the Emp was better and killed Horus first. Although technically the Emp wasnt all that alive at the end of that meeting either, so he _is_ kinda dead-ish by the 41st millenium.


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

Oh, by-the-way, I have read Galaxy in Flames, so don't worry about spoilers


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Deus Mortis said:


> Oh, by-the-way, I have read Galaxy in Flames, so don't worry about spoilers


Ditto!



revenant13 said:


> After _Galaxy In Flames_ people theorized that Aximand lowered the shields, based on how he felt at the end on that book. This is a relatively spoiler free response. Dunno if youve read the book and i didnt wanna ruin it for you.


Yes but to-be-honest its a long shot that Aximand is the one that lowers the shields, regardless of how he feels in _Galaxy In Flames_. I don't think he would go against the Warmaster, and if he started to have more doubts Abaddon would probably just kill him! :grin:


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## Carnivore (Aug 4, 2009)

I always read that Horus himself ordered the shields to be lowered... He might have think of himself powerful enough to crush the Emperor and end the war. He may have grown impatient and couldn't wait for the imperial palace to be breached, knowing that loyalists chapters were coming back to Terra. A flaw the Emperor exploited... But, who baited who ?


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

The only published fluff we have on this is the Collected Visions books. The last book has a section that details most of what happened during the end of the Siege of Terra; it is plain that Horus ordered the shields to be lowered himself, knowing that Loyalist reinforcements were on their way and that he needed the Emperor to be dead and had to be holding Terra for to have any chance of long-term victory.
The Horus Aximand idea seems to have fan-formed as the Visions books, and the info therein, aren't something that everyone has access to. But, no, it wasn't Little Horus whodunit, it was Big Horus!

GFP


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> The only published fluff we have on this is the Collected Visions books. The last book has a section that details most of what happened during the end of the Siege of Terra; it is plain that Horus ordered the shields to be lowered himself, knowing that Loyalist reinforcements were on their way and that he needed the Emperor to be dead and had to be holding Terra for to have any chance of long-term victory.


No, other published fluff on this topic is also in the Chaos Marines Codex:



Chaos Space Marines Codex Page 14 said:


> It was now, at the very moment of his triumph that Horus made his one and only mistake. None can say for sure why he did it, but Horus lowered the defence shields on his battle barge as this last cataclysmic battle began. It is surmised that without the shields he was able to better witness the forthcoming destruction of the Emperor and his Imperium.


And previous editions Chaos Marine Codex:



Chaos Space Marines Codex (Previous Edition) Page 5 said:


> Then, at the very moment of the Warmaster's victory, Horus lowered the shields protecting his ship. Whether Horus was driven to do so by some last vestige of regret, or whether he simply wished to send his psychic sight to witness his father's death will never be known.


This is just a few examples, theres several more stating that Horus lowered his shields for different reasons. We simply won't know until the HH series reaches that far, if indeed those novels actually tell us why. 



Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> The Horus Aximand idea seems to have fan-formed as the Visions books, and the info therein, aren't something that everyone has access to. But, no, it wasn't Little Horus whodunit, it was Big Horus!


Yes the Aximand theory is fan-formed. But It was not necessarily the Warmaster himself who lowered the shields. Its perfectly plausable that Aximand lowers the shields, or even my suggestion; The Alpha Legion


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## Carnivore (Aug 4, 2009)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> The only published fluff we have on this is the Collected Visions books. The last book has a section that details most of what happened during the end of the Siege of Terra; it is plain that Horus ordered the shields to be lowered himself, knowing that Loyalist reinforcements were on their way and that he needed the Emperor to be dead and had to be holding Terra for to have any chance of long-term victory.
> The Horus Aximand idea seems to have fan-formed as the Visions books, and the info therein, aren't something that everyone has access to. But, no, it wasn't Little Horus whodunit, it was Big Horus!
> 
> GFP


Don't forget the story written in the "Armaggedon / Horus Heresy" game rulebook...


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## jaq draco's (Aug 15, 2009)

*Back in the day*

"I always read that Horus himself ordered the shields to be lowered.."

Back when i first started collecting and getting into 40K the story was that Horus lowered his shields and nobody knew why but rather than look a gift horse in the mouth the emperor and a select few (200 terminators i believe) teleported onto his flag ship to kill him but no one landed together and most loyalists found themselves alone on an enemy ship. The shields had been raised again and there was no chance of reinforcements.

Everyone fought to the last in an effort to get to horus and a few even did like the blood angel primarch who some would say tired horus enough for the emperor to win. That isnt true. When the emperor finally found horus with sangiuos (how ever u spell it) dead at his feet they had a few words then set about trying to kill each other. 

Horus was always a hard nut but after chaos had its way with him he was near unstoppable. Finally with the emperor dying at his feet he tried to kill him with a pychic attack. It was at that momment (maybe something the emperor did) that horus realised what he had done. Everything he had fought for in his fathers name was about to be for nothing. 

It was then that he realised that it was him in the wrong not the emperor. Even though he could see the anguish in his eye's and knew horus had seen the light the emperor knew he had to take this chance and end the rebelion. So it was a heavy heart that he used his powers to snuff out horus for good. But the day was won not by horus being beaten by his father but by horus beating himself. Seeing that he was wrong and allowing himself to be slain. 

The emperor was found not long after by (i think ) Dorn and with horus dead he was teleported back to the palace were he was enthroned apon the golden throne to keep him alive. The rebels at this point had learned of Horus's death and the imminent arrival of a whole host of loyal space marine legions then decided to run for there lives into the eye of terror. 

That was the story i read ( very roughly) about 20 years ago. I beleive it was in a very old whitedwarf or one of the first rule books like rogue trader. I did still have that till i ebayed alot of stuff last year to clear some space so i cant recheck this but there must be someone out there with it who can verify this or someone who has all the old whitedwarfs. 

But anyway thats the story to the best of my knowledge and we will see how the HH books end to see if this story from 20 years ago has influenced the writers ( as they proberly read the same story as me all those years ago) or if they come up with a completely different ending (as far as it can be different any way).
:grin:


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks for letting me now about the other fluff-bites, I didn't know about the Armageddon one. However, I still think the Vision section trumps all because it details exactly what was said and by whom. Horus tells Maloghurst to drop the shields, Maloghurst argues saying it is too dangerous, but Horus will not listen so down the shields go. I know about the 'no viewpoint can be trusted' thing, but this section 
is fairly clear. I don't know if I'm going too far with this but,
"Horus had gambled everything on being able to defeat the forces of Terra...time seemingly against him...gamble had failed.
Horus was the first among the fallen...try one final gambit. He immedaitely ordered all comm-net communications to be blocked so that the defenders on Terra could recieve no word from their rescuers. He concentrated on his own psychic Powers to cloud the Emperor's psy-senses and prevent him knowing of the approaching fleets. He turned to his waiting minions, his head ablaze with psychic fire, and gave his fateful command,
'Maloghurst, if I cannot get the Emperor through the walls of his Palace-fortress then I shall tempt him to come to me. _Shut down all the shields!_'(italics mine)
'But, sire, with the shields lowered, the Vengeful Spirit will be unprotected. Our foes will be able to blast this ship to oblivion,' Maloghurst replied
(Erebus also cousels against such a course of action, but Horus answers them both)
'No the order stands! The Emperor will not let this ship be fired upon...I am offering him the chance to finally confront me...He will not be able to resist the opportunity. We must prepare for attack!'" Collected Visions, p360

For me, that answers the question without doubt. I also think it is a better ending than the shields being lowered without Horus' knowing, because we can see the hubris and arrogance that have burgeoned with his power; he truly believes that he is the most powerful being in the galaxy, unbeatable by any other.

GFP


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## Carnivore (Aug 4, 2009)

jaq draco's said:


> "I always read that Horus himself ordered the shields to be lowered.."
> 
> Back when i first started collecting and getting into 40K the story was that Horus lowered his shields and nobody knew why but rather than look a gift horse in the mouth the emperor and a select few (200 terminators i believe) teleported onto his flag ship to kill him but no one landed together and most loyalists found themselves alone on an enemy ship. The shields had been raised again and there was no chance of reinforcements.
> 
> ...


Your point being..., young man ? 
As far as I can read you, we agree on the whole process, but this doesn't answer as who baited who to go for the kill... I hope the *HH* novels will settle that. Did the Emperor foresee the emotional flaw in Horus and counted on him lowering his shields to finish it _mano a mano_? Did Horus try to bait the Emperor on his Battlebarge to kill him before reinforcements could reach Terra?


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I hate to keep quibbling, but the thing about Horus suddenly realising what he was doing as the Emperor lies broken at his feet is (well, as far as I can read) not quite right. Again(!), Visions says that Horus has the big E on the ropes, really mashing him apart. This is because the Emperor can't really accept that his favourite son is actually doing this. A lone Custodes runs onto the bridge and, without even looking up from tormenting his father, Horus blasts him into ash. Of all the things that have happened, this pulls the scales from the Emperor's eyes, finally allowing him to see past his fatherly feeling for Horus to see the hell he had wrought. He gathers his strength and then unleashes every bit of psychic power he has, too much even for a Horus bloated with the power of the Chaos Gods as he was, to take. He starts to destroy his son and the Chaos Gods, seeing Horis' doom approaching, desert him, allowing him to see what he had done. The Emperor sees his son return to his senses and thinks to stop killing him, but Horus begs him not to knowing that he would succumb to evil should he survive. So the Emepror pushes away all of the humanity and love he has in his soul, gathers the last of his strength and smushes Horus so totally that even his soul is torn apart. Then he falls back, almost dead, and lies in his own blood until Dorn finds him.
That was all paraphrased by myself, obviously, but it is, in essence, the Visions depiction of the final duel on the Vengeful Spirit.
Things will change as the HH books move along the timeline of the Heresy. Whilst Visions is sumptious and gives quite a lot of detail that is only hinted at in other books, it is still a very 'broad brush' account. This leaves a lot of scope for authors to make new stories and complete others. Doubtless Sanguinius will have a more heroic ending than just 'tiring' Horus or making a ***** in his armour and the battle itself may even change to something were it actually is Horus who realises what he is doing and stops himself. I'm really looking forward to all of it!

GFP


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## scolatae (Aug 25, 2008)

my personal opinion is the same as that of child-of-the-emperor that the alpha legion did it perhaps even alphirus himself. i also belive that the alpha legion are loyal traitors if that makes sense as in they are a traitor legion thats loyal to the emperor but are rejected by the imperium as a whole, and so they are trying to survive with no allys but their brothers forced to steal geneseed just to keep themselfs alive. but also notice how there are no tales of large scale geneseed thefts perpetrated by the alpha legion so i think that they steal from a number of chapters so as not to weaken them to severely and compromise the defense of the imperium.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

scolatae said:


> my personal opinion is the same as that of child-of-the-emperor


Woop another convert :yahoo:



scolatae said:


> that the alpha legion did it perhaps even alpharius himself. i also belive that the alpha legion are loyal traitors if that makes sense as in they are a traitor legion thats loyal to the emperor but are rejected by the imperium as a whole, and so they are trying to survive with no allys but their brothers forced to steal geneseed just to keep themselves alive.


Well we know that at least part of the Alpha Legion has turned to Chaos since the Horus Heresy. But we know nothing of Alpharius Omegon, we don't even know what role they played in the Heresy yet. Although I suspect it was a major role as they had 2 years to prepare for it and wouldn't have simply let things unfold, they would have tried to have their hands in as many pies as they could. This is what leads me to speculate that it was they who lowered the shields on the vengeful spirit.



scolatae said:


> but also notice how there are no tales of large scale geneseed thefts perpetrated by the alpha legion so i think that they steal from a number of chapters so as not to weaken them to severely and compromise the defense of the imperium.


Well if there is a loyalist element of the Alpha Legion remaining, they may still recruit in the same manner as Imperial Chapters. Also there could well have been large scale geneseed thefts organised by the Alpha Legion, they simply could have just covered it up, or seeing as there a secretive, covert Legion they simply could have stole it without anyone noticing!


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Of all the things that have happened, this pulls the scales from the Emperor's eyes, finally allowing him to see past his fatherly feeling for Horus to see the hell he had wrought.GFP


This would be the only thing I would change, I don't think it was so much the Emperor's fatherly feelings that held him back but more his own arrogance and inability to believe that he could have created his own downfall.
The Emperor was well on the way to becoming a (living) God, he was perfect in every way and could not comprehend his own failure in Horus.
This failing is hinted at in the book Legion when Alpharius says that the Emperor's dream is unobtainable. 

That is just my take on things, it's not written in any books as such (other than Legion) it's just me reading between the lines.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

How could it have been the Alpha legion?

It's clear they wanted the Emperor to die so the galaxy would be saved. Their entire reason of going traitor was so Horus could win.

The ONLY way I could have seen the Alpha legion doing it was because they knew precisely that the Emperor wouldn't be willing to go all out against his most beloved son and they bet on Horus killing the Emperor. And then the Custodes/Random Termie/That-Guardsman-Dude (what's the official canon now, anyway?) stormed in, died, and opened the Emperor's eyes. That would be an annoying fly in an otherwise interesting Alpha legion conspiracy's ointment.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

hailene said:


> How could it have been the Alpha legion?
> 
> It's clear they wanted the Emperor to die so the galaxy would be saved. Their entire reason of going traitor was so Horus could win.


Oh dear  Have you read 'Legion'? 

I presume you have and you've taken what it said in the book to be literally true. In fact it only hints at the Alpha Legion doing what the Cabal wanted. Do you think they really did? Do you think they simply dropped there loyalty to the Emperor because some random aliens told them it would be best to? Do you think that they would want humanity to die out simply because it would be better for all the Aliens (even though the Imperium was/is highly xenophobic)? 

Think about it for a second. 

We know that Alpharius Omegon joins the Heresy, but for what reason or motive we do not know. Alpharius is known to want to be in command of everything possible, have every angle measured and be in complete control of a situation. Look at what we know the Alpha Legion did in the heresy; not much to be honest. Attempted to delay the Space Wolves and White Scars, do you honestly think that is all they did? They are a covert and secretive legion, Alpharius would have wanted to guide and subtley direct the heresy to whatever outcome he desired, meaning he would have attempted to have his 'fingers in as many pies' possible - This we know, because it matches Alpharius' character. 

Also we know from 'Legion' that Alpharius seems very loyal to the Emperor; 



Legion page 398 said:


> 'I stand for the Emperor,' he replied. 'In all things, I am loyal to him, and I cannot break that bond. He has many great ambitions, and the noblest of intentions... 'So what I do, autarch, from this moment on I will do for the Emperor.'


Do you really think this would involve allowing humanity to be killed off? is that really what the Emperor wanted? :good:

These 2 points (Utter loyalty to the Emperor and Alpharius' tactical nature) then has led me to predict that it was the Alpha Legion who lowered the shields (its only my personal theory, im not saying it is certainly what happened) on Horus' flagship. Would Alpharius Omegon rather let Chaos be weakened and the galaxy be inherited by aliens, or humanity to fight on against the odds and hold firm against the darkness? The Emperor had the means to weaken Chaos, infact it was his greatest ambition, if the Emperor won the heresy and remained 'alive' he could have prevented the coming of Chaos, isn't this what Alpharius would have attempted to achieve, allow the Emperor to win and then for the Emperor to defeat Chaos, rather than letting humanity become extinct to weaken Chaos? What better way to do that than infiltrate Horus' army and take him down from the inside out? (by lowering the shields and allowing the Emperor to kill Horus - but also hoping the Emperor wouldn't effectively be killed!)

On a side note, Alpharius' conflict with the Ultramarines post-heresy seems to be out of character so to speak. If he was loyal to the Emperor during the heresy (which is highly likely to be true either way), why did he make war on the Ultramarines? It could be that they were simply acting in self-defence if it was the Ultramarines that sought out the apparent traitorous Alpha Legion, but the information i've read is that Alpharius seemed to seek out combat with Guilliman. One solution could be that although Alpharius entered the heresy loyal to the Emperor, he could have fallen under the sway of Chaos during the heresy. Whatever the case, if Alpharius was loyal to the Emperor, he would have attempted to prevent the war with the Ultramarines.. hmm 

Thats just my take on things anyway! :grin:


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

jaq draco's said:


> When the emperor finally found horus with sangiuos (how ever u spell it) dead at his feet they had a few words then set about trying to kill each other.
> 
> Horus was always a hard nut but after chaos had its way with him he was near unstoppable. Finally with the emperor dying at his feet he tried to kill him with a pychic attack. It was at that momment (maybe something the emperor did) that horus realised what he had done. Everything he had fought for in his fathers name was about to be for nothing.


I think you got it wrong

The Emperor loved Horus too much to kill Horus, the Emperor thought he could still save his son...until his son casually slaughtered that lone Custodes, it was then that the Emperor accepted that there was no saving his son. The Emperor, in his severely damaged physical state, sadly brought his full psychic might to bear on Horus and obliterated his son's very essence. Horus was freed from chaos an instant before annihilation. 

From that account, it's fair to say that if the Emperor had not loved Horus so much, he could have utterly destroyed his son very early in the fight.


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## Carnivore (Aug 4, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> From that account, it's fair to say that if the Emperor had not loved Horus so much, he could have utterly destroyed his son very early in the fight.


Moreso then. He would have accepted the truth of Horus Treason a lot sooner and ordered his destruction before the traitor's assault on Terra.


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## Fallen Angel Sammael (Jun 18, 2009)

The Emperor did not want to kill Horus at the start, A bit like Obi Wan trying to turn Anakin back to the light side but failed because Horus was consumed in Chaos. So after taking it easy on Horus the Emperor destroyed Horus in one big psychic attack. 

About the Shields, it is likely Horus lowered them to temp the Emperor into attacking but I think it is much better if the Alpha Legion took down the shields to make it more interesting..........


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## Carnivore (Aug 4, 2009)

Fallen Angel Sammael said:


> The Emperor did not want to kill Horus at the start, A bit like Obi Wan trying to turn Anakin back to the light side but failed because Horus was consumed in Chaos. So after taking it easy on Horus the Emperor destroyed Horus in one big psychic attack.
> 
> About the Shields, it is likely Horus lowered them to temp the Emperor into attacking but I think it is much better if the Alpha Legion took down the shields to make it more interesting..........


Well...anything new under the sun, pal? :grin:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Carnivore said:


> Moreso then. He would have accepted the truth of Horus Treason a lot sooner and ordered his destruction before the traitor's assault on Terra.





Fallen Angel Sammael said:


> The Emperor did not want to kill Horus at the start


Well we know now that in the upcoming HH book 'Nemesis' - The Emperor and other leading Imperial figures dispatched teams of assassins in an attempt to kill Horus before he ravages the Imperium and heads for Terra.

So all in all I don't think killing Horus was a major emotional issue for the Emperor...


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## vista101 (May 15, 2009)

He wanted to face him of, personally. But horus was just a primarch not a god emporor he just waent powerfull enough..... Unfourtionatley


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## GiftofChaos1234 (Jan 27, 2009)

jaq draco's said:


> But the day was won not by horus being beaten by his father but by horus beating himself. Seeing that he was wrong and allowing himself to be slain.


is it just me or does that sound rediculously like konrad kurze?? i personally don't think that Gw would make two things almost exactly the same with something as big as the primarchs...

but hey thats just me


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## Bloody Mary (Nov 6, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Well we know now that in the upcoming HH book 'Nemesis' - The Emperor and other leading Imperial figures dispatched teams of assassins in an attempt to kill Horus before he ravages the Imperium and heads for Terra.
> 
> So all in all I don't think killing Horus was a major emotional issue for the Emperor...


There's a difference between sending somebody to kill your child and killing your child, while looking them in the eye. The fact that the Emperor sent assassins after Horus, doesn't mean that killing Horus wasn't a major emotional issue for the Emperor, it just means his alignment is Necessary Evil.

That and we don't really get much insight into the Emperor's psyche. So, he could have agonized over killing Horus or went "just as planned" or...


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Bloody Mary said:


> There's a difference between sending somebody to kill your child and killing your child, while looking them in the eye. The fact that the Emperor sent assassins after Horus, doesn't mean that killing Horus wasn't a major emotional issue for the Emperor, it just means his alignment is Necessary Evil.
> 
> That and we don't really get much insight into the Emperor's psyche. So, he could have agonized over killing Horus or went "just as planned" or...


Thats a very good point 

Personally though I don't think killing Horus was that much of a problem for the Emperor. Going by the precedent of his ruthless nature throughout the unification period and the Great Crusade, where he sacrificed billions (possibly trillions) of innocent Humans - deeming it necessary. As a parallel, the death of the traitor Horus was also deemed necessary.

I think the heresy itself, the siege of Holy Terra and the duel with Horus aboard the _Vengeful Spirit_ was more shock and despair that the Emperor's plans had gone awry rather than heart-broken love for his 'son'.

He never doubted Horus' utter loyalty and it was the shock that his plans for humanity, that were millenia in the making, had actually failed. He had failed, Chaos had won, and would consume the galaxy sooner or later regardless of what now happened.

Just my thoughts


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Do you think an F-16 pilot, who drops bombs on "possible" terrorist villages every day would be able to shoot his own son in the face if it turned out that he was a terrorist?

Whole different ball game.


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## FORTHELION (Nov 21, 2009)

the emperor is still human so it would not be easy for him to look horus in the eye and kill him its only when horus basically vapourises the custode that he realises how far he has actuall fallen. imo horus drops the shield himself as he hears the news that the dark angels space wolves and the smurfs have just droped out of the war and will soon arrive at terra. he knows he would not be able to defeat them all combined so tries to finish the emperor quickly by dropping the shield and luring the emperor to him


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## Bloody Mary (Nov 6, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Thats a very good point
> 
> Personally though I don't think killing Horus was that much of a problem for the Emperor. Going by the precedent of his ruthless nature throughout the unification period and the Great Crusade, where he sacrificed billions (possibly trillions) of innocent Humans - deeming it necessary. As a parallel, the death of the traitor Horus was also deemed necessary.
> 
> ...


I'm kinda torn on this issue. I always imagined that the Primarchs, and especially Horus, were the first chance the Emperor had to interact with another human being without the certainty that they'd die in a few years. So, he might have been more attatched to them than he expected.

But then, he was a ruthless bastard, so you might be right.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

FORTHELION said:


> the emperor is still human


Or is he?



Bloody Mary said:


> I'm kinda torn on this issue. I always imagined that the Primarchs, and especially Horus, were the first chance the Emperor had to interact with another human being without the certainty that they'd die in a few years. So, he might have been more attatched to them than he expected.
> 
> But then, he was a ruthless bastard, so you might be right.


Death is a large part of what humanity is, and of what makes us who we are. I imagine the Emperor still forged solid friendships and companionships throughout his life, the Emperor had to deal with the fact that everyone he got close to died. Maybe he had learnt to deal with this, and moved past it?

Or as you said, yes he was a ruthless bastard - perhaps this played its part


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## The144thCadianPlatoon (Jul 31, 2009)

from what i've seen, my opinion is that at the end of the siege, horus gave the order to let down the shields because he wanted to kill the emperor himself, for the full glory kinda thing. The emperor, along with afew custodes and terminators, teleported aboard horus's ship, but they were all scattered. The one primarch guy found horus but was no match for him, he died fast (he wud not have tired horus out very much if at all). The emperor could have beaten Horus alot easier but he just couldn't believe that his little horus would do such evil things, so for most of the fight he held back and let horus beat the crap outa him, until a random custode walked in and Horus just freakin vapourised him, so the emperor finally saw how evil he really was, and he knew he had to destroy him, so he did. the end. that's what my opinion is.


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