# Was Leman Russ raised in a homosexual/beastiality society?



## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

I am being entirely genuine here, because from all the stories written about Russ it seems like the societal context he was raised in was geared towards homosexual tendencies? Sort of like how greece was? I don't mean it was purely man on man, or man on wolf...I mean they just had rites of passage where the older men would ride the younger men like wolves?

Thus the allegory of them being like wolves is a nod to their rite of passages through the ages of being made into wolves for the older men (the hunters)?

*Want serious discussion*

Most of the legions are based on actual historical context and societies, which is why when I look at the Space wolves stories I see such strong similarities to certain past societies that were famous for homosexual and or bestial tendencies.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Lux said:


> *Want serious discussion*


Good luck


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

First up I find it hard to believe that you Lux want serious discussion of anything... what you want is attention, congrats you got it, I'm having a very hard time not telling you where to go.

Right in topic (as much such a stupid statement can be considered to be on topic). NO. HE WAS NOT.

For what must the 1000th time you got any EVIDENCE? You seeing similarities isn't enough because frankly with the other bullshit theories you have come up with I'm surprised you are even on the internet. If these are examples of the stupid ideas that you have about a fictional game then I dread to think about you think of the real world.

Think about it for a moment is GW going to create a back story to a very heavily featured character which breaks a very large taboo in our society (beastiality) and deals with another subject that is bound to evoke strong negative emotions from many people? To my mind your suggestion is about as valid as suggesting that the next army GW releases will feature the swastika as a symbol. It's a very poor business decision. The parents of little Johnny aged 11 are not going to be too happy if he asks for a box of Blood Claws because his Grey Hunters need some bitches are they? Can you seriously imagine some Red Shirt listing off the characteristics of each army and getting to Space Wolves and saying "Vikings in space, don't like teleportation, have long teeth, oh yea and they herd wolves into battle, ride them into battle and then when they are done they shag the wolves and their squadmates in a massive blood soaked orgy"... go on... are they really going to say that.

If the idea of Penal Legionaries wearing suicide vests has been retconned what the hell makes you think that this would be INTRODUCED into canon.

News flash buddy. WARHAMMER 40K ISN'T REAL! IT DOES NOT EXIST!


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> First up I find it hard to believe that you Lux want serious discussion of anything... what you want is attention, congrats you got it, I'm having a very hard time not telling you where to go.
> 
> Right in topic (as much such a stupid statement can be considered to be on topic). NO. HE WAS NOT.
> 
> ...



I am not stating warhammer 40k is real, I am saying I truly believe that the space wolves legion is heavily based on Vikings (extremely heavily based on homosexuality), Greece (heavy based on bestiality), and some traits of Egyptology.

I have no problem with some one being homosexual, I actually think its very open minded of games workshop to do such a thing. And in case YOU didn't know, many societies through the history of mankind have had extreme gay tendencies and bestiality in their culture. Greece, Romans, Vikings, etc.


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## Lord Solar Macharius (Oct 5, 2010)




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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Vikings also had a extreme tendency to rape and steal from the villages and towns they raided... do the Space Wolves do that as well? I mean hell its not stated that they don't so it must be true seeing as they are based on Vikings... Much like the Ultramarines engaging in group sexual activity... they are after all based on Romans who were famous that. It's not stated that they don't so it must be true.

And yes I was aware that the Greeks viewed sleeping with men as an honorable thing, for the Vikings it depended whether or not you were dominant in the relationship or not much like in many prison cultures. This does not necessarily mean that GW has ported the entire society over to their IP.

Once again - have you any evidence for your claims from a GW/FW/BL publication... any...?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> Vikings also had a extreme tendency to rape and steal from the villages and towns they raided... do the Space Wolves do that as well? I mean hell its not stated that they don't so it must be true seeing as they are based on Vikings... Much like the Ultramarines engaging in group sexual activity... they are after all based on Romans who were famous that. It's not stated that they don't so it must be true.
> 
> And yes I was aware that the Greeks viewed sleeping with men as an honorable thing, for the Vikings it depended whether or not you were dominant in the relationship or not much like in many prison cultures. This does not necessarily mean that GW has ported the entire society over to their IP.
> 
> Once again - have you any evidence for your claims from a GW/FW/BL publication... any...?



Yes actually I do, the runes the space wolf priest often where are actually heavily borrowed from real like viking culture, of which they were not called priest but rather more of a shaman who was to bridge the physical with the spiritual for them.

Those very emblems they wear, were a sign for geared and ready to grind down the younger youths with animals involved.


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## washout77 (May 26, 2012)

Not going to weigh in on the homosexuality thing, I just can't come up with a proper response to that....

But I will say this. Everyone I have talked to, myself included, have considered the Space Wolves Viking inspired. I mean, the whole barbaric nature of them. The fact they use the frost axe and the signs on the units like the Shaman/Chaplains. Even if they aren't vikings specifically, they deff. have Nordic inspired culture...

Also, the codex somewhere says they follow old Norse traditions (like pure orally re-telling of old old stories of heroes on Fenris for example) I believe (not having a SW codex in front of me...)


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Lux said:


> Yes actually I do, the runes the space wolf priest often where are actually heavily borrowed from real like viking culture, of which they were not called priest but rather more of a shaman who was to bridge the physical with the spiritual for them.
> 
> Those very emblems they wear, were a sign for geared and ready to grind down the younger youths with animals involved.


Wow:clapping: finally something approaching a valid argument. Now pictures please. A side by side comparison and a verified translation and then I will fully acknowledge this previously unknown undercurrent of the space puppies.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

washout77 said:


> Not going to weigh in on the homosexuality thing, I just can't come up with a proper response to that....
> 
> But I will say this. Everyone I have talked to, myself included, have considered the Space Wolves Viking inspired. I mean, the whole barbaric nature of them. The fact they use the frost axe and the signs on the units like the Shaman/Chaplains. Even if they aren't vikings specifically, they deff. have Nordic inspired culture...
> 
> Also, the codex somewhere says they follow old Norse traditions (like pure orally re-telling of old old stories of heroes on Fenris for example) I believe (not having a SW codex in front of me...)



This is in particular what I am speaking of...they really do borrow very heavily from Viking culture in almost everything they do. To the point where they don't blatantly state "The older memebers brutally sexualize the youths", but they have the same rituals for pre male on male sex, and the most blatant one is the runic priest, those really did exist. They were for preparing the youths to be sodomized though, which is why the more I research the legions the more it is apparent to me that several legions practiced sodomy, homosexuality, bestiality, and rape.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Lux said:


> the more I research the legions


:rofl: Research?! Into BL/GWS fluff? Where are you getting this bullshit Lux? The almighty troll-god? Or is this an insight into your life?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Actually an amendment to my question/request for evidence. Show evidence of specific runes that specifically support your theory and cannot be changed through context of other runes.

Side by side comparison with supportive text. I'm waiting.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> :rofl: Research?! Into BL/GWS fluff? Where are you getting this bullshit Lux? The almighty troll-god? Or is this an insight into your life?



You do not like research to support well thought out posts and topics?


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

1. How do you intend to "research" something that doesn't go beyond fictional novels? Studies? Surveys? Laboratory Experiments? Contact me if you do find any of those...
2. You never present any specific evidence
3. This evidence is never directly quoted or sourced.
4. You spend more time questioning our questions of your theories than answering them.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> 1. How do you intend to "research" something that doesn't go beyond fictional novels? Studies? Surveys? Laboratory Experiments? Contact me if you do find any of those...
> 2. You never present any specific evidence
> 3. This evidence is never directly quoted or sourced.
> 4. You spend more time questioning our questions of your theories than answering them.



Ah an interesting approach, but yes I do research...

I develop longitudinal studies...get them chartered....and than carry out my research under my theories...

I often do cite and quote but you do not seem to perceive it...

Do you often question what it is to question, rather than meld with reality?


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Lux said:


> I am not stating warhammer 40k is real, I am saying I truly believe that the space wolves legion is heavily based on *Vikings (extremely heavily based on homosexuality)*, Greece (heavy based on bestiality), and some traits of Egyptology.
> 
> I have no problem with some one being homosexual, I actually think its very open minded of games workshop to do such a thing. And in case YOU didn't know, many societies through the history of mankind have had extreme gay tendencies and bestiality in their culture. Greece, Romans, *Vikings,* etc.












http://historicromance.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/viking-attitudes-towards-homosexuality/


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Furthermore Russ is shown to put the wolf seed into new cruits, the helix. Viking culture, the "Helix" was not some sort of DNA fixture. It was a title for a sexual act, often involving domesticated wolves used for a moving bed, imagine with me many domesticated wolves romping around in a closed pen. Of which than the Wolf King (called so because of the hairy bodies) would than house break the young pup (new viking recruit), often the young ones became like wild wolves during the ritual (sex reference).


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Jacobite said:


> Actually an amendment to my question/request for evidence. Show evidence of specific runes that specifically support your theory and cannot be changed through context of other runes.
> 
> Side by side comparison with supportive text. I'm waiting.


Still waiting...



Lux said:


> I often do cite and quote but you do not seem to perceive it...


Care to show an example of this?




Lux said:


> Viking culture, the "Helix" was not some sort of DNA fixture... It was a title for a sexual act... Of which than the Wolf King (called so because of the hairy bodies) would than house break the young pup (new viking recruit), often the young ones became like wild wolves during the ritual (sex reference).


A) Care to provide a reference of this "Helix" ritual?
B) What exactly was a "Wolf King" in Viking culture? What purpose did they serve?


Nows the time to provide those references Lux


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> Still waiting...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not in the archives right now, research documents not on hand in the field.

The Helix ritual was basically the "Wolf King" covering the "pups" in "Sauce" putting them in a pin of about 30 domesticated, yet riled up dogs (defanged/declawed). The Wolf King enters and inserts the wolf helix into the pup over the course of about several hours while the dogs go wild under them, above them, in them, around them.

But really this is just one of the many rituals the vikings had, their was also the Frost Ritual.


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## washout77 (May 26, 2012)

Ya know this post is full of so much rage when it really doesn't have to be....this is what happens when homosexuality is ever mentioned in a public space....

However, after reading a lot into viking/nordic culture, homosexuality, and the Space Wolves im convinced Leman Russ was NOT raised with homosexuality influence. HOWEVER, because of the nature of the SW's and their close relationship with the Fenerian Wolves I could see how someone could make a bestiality argument.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

washout77 said:


> Ya know this post is full of so much rage when it really doesn't have to be....this is what happens when homosexuality is ever mentioned in a public space....
> 
> However, after reading a lot into viking/nordic culture, homosexuality, and the Space Wolves im convinced Leman Russ was NOT raised with homosexuality influence. HOWEVER, because of the nature of the SW's and their close relationship with the Fenerian Wolves I could see how someone could make a bestiality argument.


Well the bestiality is often tied in with the homosexual acts for vikings, such as the ritual of the Crimson Hound...but really I don't see why you are so full of rage regarding homosexuality? It has been part of humanity for well...ever?

Furthermore I think it is important for you to understand that homosexuality is often one and the same as beastiality for the space wolves, due to a majority of the "pups" becoming savage when the Wolf King inserts his Canine Helix into them, they often succumb to the psychological experience later and transform into Wolves.

Thus when the Wolf Kings have sex with the Wild Wolves, it is actually them having sex with their once human initiates turned into wolves.

see?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Lux said:


> Not in the archives right now, research documents not on hand in the field.
> 
> The Helix ritual was basically the "Wolf King" covering the "pups" in "Sauce" putting them in a pin of about 30 domesticated, yet riled up dogs (defanged/declawed). The Wolf King enters and inserts the wolf helix into the pup over the course of about several hours while the dogs go wild under them, above them, in them, around them.
> 
> But really this is just one of the many rituals the vikings had, their was also the Frost Ritual.


Hmmm thats convenient... However you say that you often provide evidence. You've made 490 odd posts on these boards, surely it wouldn't be hard for you to provide me with an example of when you have provided a page reference in a previous argument because I cannot think of one such time and you have a reputation for never providing references for your "theories'.

You still haven't actually told me what the "Wolf King" is in relation to Vikings...



washout77 said:


> Ya know this post is full of so much rage when it really doesn't have to be....this is what happens when homosexuality is ever mentioned in a public space....
> 
> However, after reading a lot into viking/nordic culture, homosexuality, and the Space Wolves im convinced Leman Russ was NOT raised with homosexuality influence. HOWEVER, because of the nature of the SW's and their close relationship with the Fenerian Wolves I could see how someone could make a bestiality argument.


My "rage" as you put it has nothing to do with the bringing up of homosexuality I can assure you. I am more than willing to engage with anybody in a conversation about the ethics of homosexuality. My "rage" It has to do with ignorance and stupidity. I personally do not see how beastiality has anything to do with SW and the OP has thus far failed to provide any evidence to the contrary other than his opinion. Simply saying the SW's and their wolves are close does not make it so that engage in acts like those being described. A pig hunter who uses dogs to corner the pig (about as close a comparison as you are going to get in todays world) before killing it does not curl up and shag it at night. Just because I have a close relationship with my dog doesn't mean I would like to sleep with it. If anybody hurt her I would tear their throat out certainly but I don't want to sleep with it. In contrast I would love to sleep with say the actress Amber Heard however if somebody hurt her I wouldn't feel the over riding desire to kill them.


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## Lord Solar Macharius (Oct 5, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> Hmmm thats convenient... However you say that you often provide evidence. You've made 490 odd posts on these boards, surely it wouldn't be hard for you to provide me with an example of when you have provided a page reference in a previous argument because I cannot think of one such time and you have a reputation for never providing references for your "theories'.


If you've been listening to Lux's incoherent ramblings for long enough, then you'd know that Lux's references is the ever-elusive "fluff".


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> Hmmm thats convenient... However you say that you often provide evidence. You've made 490 odd posts on these boards, surely it wouldn't be hard for you to provide me with an example of when you have provided a page reference in a previous argument because I cannot think of one such time and you have a reputation for never providing references for your "theories'.
> 
> You still haven't actually told me what the "Wolf King" is in relation to Vikings...
> 
> ...



Furthermore I think it is important for you to understand that homosexuality is often one and the same as beastiality for the space wolves, due to a majority of the "pups" becoming savage when the Wolf King inserts his Canine Helix into them, they often succumb to the psychological experience later and transform into Wolves.

Thus when the Wolf Kings have sex with the Wild Wolves, it is actually them having sex with their once human initiates turned into wolves.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Seriously? Why must we feed the Troll?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Solar Lord Macharius said:


> If you've been listening to Lux's incoherent ramblings for long enough, then you'd know that Lux's references is the ever-elusive "fluff".


Oh I'm fully aware of this so called "fluff" he has however said that he often provides specific references. I'd love him to provide an example of when he did provide a reference from his fluff.



Lux said:


> Furthermore I think it is important for you to understand that homosexuality is often one and the same as beastiality for the space wolves, due to a majority of the "pups" becoming savage when the Wolf King inserts his Canine Helix into them, they often succumb to the psychological experience later and transform into Wolves.
> 
> Thus when the Wolf Kings have sex with the Wild Wolves, it is actually them having sex with their once human initiates turned into wolves.


Repeating your unsupported evidence doesn't make it any more valid buddy. Give me specific examples or you an't got a leg to stand on.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

You, lux, are indeed a very successful troll.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

:clapping: Epic Lux, simply epic. I am almost beginning to look forward to your posts.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Lux said:


> Well the bestiality is often tied in with the homosexual acts for vikings, such as the ritual of the Crimson Hound...but really I don't see why you are so full of rage regarding homosexuality? It has been part of humanity for well...ever?
> 
> Furthermore I think it is important for you to understand that homosexuality is often one and the same as beastiality for the space wolves, due to a majority of the "pups" becoming savage when the Wolf King inserts his Canine Helix into them, they often succumb to the psychological experience later and transform into Wolves.
> 
> ...


No..... not really. I have read every bit of SW fluff that GW has produced in the past 10 years, or so, and not once have I seen the line "and so the wolf king butt fucked the sexy wolf" pop up ANYWHERE. The Space Wolves are not homosexuals. They aren't really heterosexual either. TBH, they, like most marines, are somewhat asexual. Read carefully, I can assure you that they are most certainly not fucking their wolves, nor have they ever fucked their wolves.


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## washout77 (May 26, 2012)

gen.ahab said:


> No..... not really. I have read every bit of SW fluff that GW has produced in the past 10 years, or so, and not once have I seen the line "and so the wolf king butt fucked the sexy wolf" pop up ANYWHERE. The Space Wolves are not homosexuals. They aren't really heterosexual either. TBH, they, like most marines, are somewhat asexual. Read carefully, I can assure you that they are most certainly not fucking their wolves, nor have they ever fucked their wolves.


Exactly. That's because everyone here just got trolled hard. Once I noticed that I couldn't stop laughing....good show Lux...good show....


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Lux said:


> ...the Wolf King inserts his Canine Helix into them...


This line alone is worthy of accolades. Sounds like a terrible fanfiction waiting to happen.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

washout77 said:


> Exactly. That's because everyone here just got trolled hard. Once I noticed that I couldn't stop laughing....good show Lux...good show....


Yea compliment the him... that's a genius idea.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Though, assuming this did happen, did the Wolf King fuck his wolves before or after the insane Zimbabwean business man-woman emperor(es) created shim's quasi-clone son sex-bot and fucked Horus, and then caused the heresy so that Horus, shim's quasi-clone son sex-bot, could intentionally troll chaos?


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## Lord Solar Macharius (Oct 5, 2010)

The day a fanfiction author discovers this thread is going to be a very, very grim day indeed.


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## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr (Apr 3, 2012)

*feeds the troll*

the Norse Society, in other words, the Vikings, was not as opposed to homosexuality as the Judeo (sp) god religions, by which I mean Christianity, Catholic, Muslim, jewish, etc. But that does not necessarily mean that the vikings had any kind of homosexual acts within their society as ritual. There is no real proof (retard christian propaganda sites with bullshit information on them does not count) of there being a huge following of homosexual acts within norse society, and the vikings, due to their Might makes Right mentality, were not depraved of their sexual urges for more then the trip between their home and the first village they would attack, since their mentality allowed them to rape and pillage any of the women they wished to.

if your looking for references to homosexuality within ancient cultures, look at the Greeks and the Romans, there is alot of easily obtainable documents of homosexuality within their army ranks, because they became completely devoid of sexual contact with women, due to their 'laws'


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I have never seen a huge prison rape mentality when talking about viking society. 

On a side note I have found the 6th ed SW concept art.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

The Wolf Kings did not submit the young pups to the ritual of Canin Helix insertion due to sexual urges. No it was completely platonic, it was a way of them bonding with the inner wolf inside of each other.

And if the young pups became savage wolves later for not bonding well with the Wolf Kings Canine Helix, than the Wolf Kings would seek them out and undergo the ritual of "The Raging blood filled Crevace". 

Really don't associate the act of sex with feelings of sexuality, it was a way of the wolf kings dominating their young pups into rank and file.

Moving on, bestiality was often a very strong theme in Nordic Culture. Often times once a village was pillaged and the women sexualized into psychological numbness or physical death they would than seek out their emotionally closest confidents. Which happen to most often be the animals around them, Nords actually celebrated a holid/ritual annually where they would dance around a very long masculine pole in the middle of them, that was slowly erected through the movement of their hands by raising it.

Once the grand pole had been erected, they would all dance around it, take turns as they would climb it and wrap their hands around it while shouting with ecstacy.

It was a ritual done to promote fertility, as I said sexual acts are in every sect and culture of human history.

Even mores so the space wolves replicate these same rituals, such as when Russ conducts the Grand pole ceremony except the practitioners are often drunk due to Russ intoxicating them beforehand.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

"Was Leman Russ raised in a *homosexual*/beastiality society?"

....... I shouldn't do what now?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> "Was Leman Russ raised in a *homosexual*/beastiality society?"
> 
> ....... I shouldn't do what now?




Excellent point Ahab, which brings us back on topic

Russ was actually dropped into an already deeply homosexual/beastiality flavored society.

In this cruel harsh world the people had trouble surviving, thus they disocvered that only the closest bond societies often survived.

This is why the native males of the planet often had sex with each other, male with male, so they could bond and understand one another best. Either it be when they were chopping wood in the frozen forest, or making a fire with one another for heat, it was through rough hearty sex that they understood each others need for survival.

Furthermore they found that symbiotic relationships with their animals was needed to survive, thus the humans developed a symbiotic relationship with the native wolves. Through sex they mentally bonded and emotionally became closer, thus the humans understood and fulfilled the needs of the wolves, while the wolves helped the humans survive by assisting in hunting and warmth with their furry bodies.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

"Once the grand pole had been erected, they would all dance around it, take turns as they would climb it and wrap their hands around it while shouting with ecstasy." :rofl:

Yup, you win.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

::shakes head and goes to work::


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Even though this thread is entertaining, it will never live up to the Sanguine Mistress or the "Its all in the Emperor's Head" threads.

Lux your running out of ideas and I am dissapoint.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

ThatOtherGuy said:


> Even though this thread is entertaining, it will never live up to the Sanguine Mistress or the "Its all in the Emperor's Head" threads.
> 
> Lux your running out of ideas and I am dissapoint.


I am actually attempting to try to have serious discussion here...


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Problem is your pretty much gaybashing a whole culture from actual history and not backing it up.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

So you accept that all your other threads were bullshit then? And suddenly we're expected to take this crap seriously? 

Please, go away, have a bit of a think and come back with something a bit less pathetic, maybe your fake heads could make a return or Horus being a figment of the Emperor's imagination.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> So you accept that all your other threads were bullshit then? And suddenly we're expected to take this crap seriously?
> 
> Please, go away, have a bit of a think and come back with something a bit less pathetic, maybe your fake heads could make a return or Horus being a figment of the Emperor's imagination.


I did not say that, you are assuming that.

All my threads have always been about serious discussion, how ever some just do not broaden there perceptions or perhaps adopt a different paradigm for a moment.

I still stand by the fact that Horus was a psychic manifestation of the Emperor's imagination, and about the fake heads? That was in regards in Ferrus of which I still state the head recovered by the Chaos agents was fake as Fulgrim had planted it there so Ferrus could escape.

And with the most recent fluff that Fulgrim has in fact regained his body only further adds depth to the fluff that Fulgrim has been in control this entire time. The demon posessing him was only a psychological defense Fulgrim created to fool himself so he could better infiltrate chaos to sabotage them and help Ferrus.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Lux said:


> I am actually attempting to try to have serious discussion here...


Thanks for the laugh there.

If you were serious, wheres the info coming from? Or are we just going to have to take your word and believe you like a bunch of twelve year olds?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

scscofield said:


> Problem is your pretty much gaybashing a whole culture from actual history and not backing it up.


I have not once bashed them, I am entirely accepting of all cultures and ritual practices. If you see anything wrong with it...it has nothing to do with me but rather perhaps the way you perceive what is right and acceptable.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I honestly give a rats ass about the SW connection here, I just find everything he is spouting off about Nordic culture fairly insulting.

Edit: Please give solid backed research about all this shit you have stated based on Nordic/Viking culture. If not cease this crap, it is insulting to my ancestors. You have pretty much boiled my ancestors culture down to a bunch of prison rapist goat fuckers and I am not amused by it. Your various threads about how you see 40K fluff are harmless. This thread is not harmless, it is something designed to incite anger and well you succeeded here.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

scscofield said:


> I honestly give a rats ass about the SW connection here, I just find everything he is spouting off about Nordic culture fairly insulting.


Some one somewhere will always find something insulting.

I do not aim to satiate the views of the masses, I state what I perceive and find in the fluff and research. If you do not like it, that is not my issue but I will not censor my findings due to you finding them insulting.

It is digital text on a internet forum, ignore it if it bothers you. If this aggravates you or insults you in the slightest I worry for your level of resilience in reality.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Meh, thread was reported, I should have left it at that. Congrats Lux you trolled me also.


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## Lord Solar Macharius (Oct 5, 2010)

gen.ahab said:


> "Once the grand pole had been erected, they would all dance around it, take turns as they would climb it and wrap their hands around it while shouting with ecstasy." :rofl:


I hate to break it to you, but the Maypole Dance is a real Scandinavian tradition. However, according to the Wiki, scholars are divided about the symbolism of the maypole, which phallicism only being one possibility. So yeah, Lux is pretty much abusing the history of Scandinavia for our misery.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

scscofield said:


> I honestly give a rats ass about the SW connection here, I just find everything he is spouting off about Nordic culture fairly insulting.
> 
> Edit: Please give solid backed research about all this shit you have stated based on Nordic/Viking culture. If not cease this crap, it is insulting to my ancestors. You have pretty much boiled my ancestors culture down to a bunch of prison rapist goat fuckers and I am not amused by it. Your various threads about how you see 40K fluff are harmless. This thread is not harmless, it is something designed to incite anger and well you succeeded here.


Every line of ancestery is riddled with rape, hatred, murder, and extortion. If you in anyway think your ancestral line is pure, or noble you are deluding yourself into an idealism that is far from the truth.

The Spacewolves are based heavily on nordic and even greece themes, both of which are heavily laid with homosexual and bestial themes. If this bothers you...please seek psychological help. Who you are is dependent upon how others perceive you in this current day, not who your ancestors were...so please do not anchor your identity upon individuals who not even exist presently.

Really you have derailed this topic a great amount by bringing up personal issues that have no place in this thread.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Solar Lord Macharius said:


> I hate to break it to you, but the Maypole Dance is a real Scandinavian tradition. However, according to the Wiki, scholars are divided about the symbolism of the maypole, which phallicism only being one possibility. So yeah, Lux is pretty much abusing the history of Scandinavia for our misery.



As I said...EVERYTHING I have stated in this thread is indeed based on real history....real cultural practices of the nords and the societies around them. Of which I see heavily replicated and echoed in the Space Wolf Fluff.


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## Lord Solar Macharius (Oct 5, 2010)

Like how the Da Vinci Code is based on real history?


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Solar Lord Macharius said:


> I hate to break it to you, but the Maypole Dance is a real Scandinavian tradition. However, according to the Wiki, scholars are divided about the symbolism of the maypole, which phallicism only being one possibility. So yeah, Lux is pretty much abusing the history of Scandinavia for our misery.


I hate to break it to you, but that makes it even better. :laugh:


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Solar Lord Macharius said:


> Like how the Da Vinci Code is based on real history?


Da Vinchi code is one interpretation of several text and events, however does it make the existence of said text and articles any less real? No.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Lux said:


> Every line of ancestery is riddled with rape, hatred, murder, and extortion. If you in anyway think your ancestral line is pure, or noble you are deluding yourself into an idealism that is far from the truth.
> 
> The Spacewolves are based heavily on nordic and even greece themes, both of which are heavily laid with homosexual and bestial themes. If this bothers you...please seek psychological help. Who you are is dependent upon how others perceive you in this current day, not who your ancestors were...so please do not anchor your identity upon individuals who not even exist presently.
> 
> Really you have derailed this topic a great amount by bringing up personal issues that have no place in this thread.



Nope I am a typical American mutt, there is nothing pure about me. My issue is with how your attempting to portray the culture. It is much like Fox new's coverage of anything to do with Obama. You are giving it a Jerry Springer makeover and are not backing it up with any facts what so ever. You are trolling me and others, lucky for me I am about to go to work. 

You can spin 40k fluff all day long, it's a fictional world. If your gonna start posting that kind of stuff using actual history though, that is when you need to back it up. Otherwise your spewing shit for no other reason than to get attention.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

scscofield said:


> Nope I am a typical American mutt, there is nothing pure about me. My issue is with how your attempting to portray the culture. It is much like Fox new's coverage of anything to do with Obama. You are giving it a Jerry Springer makeover and are not backing it up with any facts what so ever. You are trolling me and others, lucky for me I am about to go to work.
> 
> You can spin 40k fluff all day long, it's a fictional world. If your gonna start posting that kind of stuff using actual history though, that is when you need to back it up. Otherwise your spewing shit for no other reason than to get attention.


Once again my dear fellow...derailing the thread with persona emotional issues...

Back on topic! I do believe Russ is actualy the representation of Freya, he represents sex, war, death, and vitality. Looks just like Freya, from red hair to face etc.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

I am going to stay the fuck off topic on purpose ... I do NOT ever want you to write a fucking thing about the American Indians and the Dark Angels. You spout so much bullshit that it almost seems as if you are a dumbed down Stella.
You pull shit from various different places yet IGNORE when you are asked for verifiable references. This thread is a shit thread, started for trolling shit.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> So you accept that all your other threads were bullshit then? And suddenly we're expected to take this crap seriously?
> 
> Please, go away, have a bit of a think and come back with something a bit less pathetic, maybe your fake heads could make a return or Horus being a figment of the Emperor's imagination.


Also I can't go back to the decoy head of Ferrus planted by Fulgrim thread/Night haunter using decoy head, because you locked it. (Night haunter is still alive thread is what it was)


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Lux said:


> If you do not like it, that is not my issue but I will not censor my findings due to you finding them insulting.
> 
> It is digital text on a internet forum, ignore it if it bothers you.


Now this is where you get yourself into trouble Lux. What you say may be true (operative word there being MAY) the issue however is how you go about expressing that: the language you use to explain yourself for example.

It can be dealt with tastefully or it can be dealt with crassly. You are choosing to deal with it in the rather crass way. Simply saying "I'm going to express myself as I want too and if you don't like it thats not my problem" can lead to situations like me saying what I really think about you, your mental process and your theories. And neither you, me or more importantly the mods want me doing that.

There is nothing wrong with you putting out a stupid theory about fluff (unfortunately, I wish there was) however there is with you offending people as you appeared too.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

OIIIIIIO said:


> I am going to stay the fuck off topic on purpose ... I do NOT ever want you to write a fucking thing about the American Indians and the Dark Angels. You spout so much bullshit that it almost seems as if you are a dumbed down Stella.
> You pull shit from various different places yet IGNORE when you are asked for verifiable references. This thread is a shit thread, started for trolling shit.


The only one here breaking the TOS...is you. Cursing, insulting another member, personal insults? Really is it that hard we just stay on topic.

And yes the Dark Angels do have heavy similarities with native Americans...this is interesting...However I feel their similarities are more in line with africans from africa in terms of background and rituals they practice.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> Now this is where you get yourself into trouble Lux. What you say may be true (operative word there being MAY) the issue however is how you go about expressing that: the language you use to explain yourself for example.
> 
> It can be dealt with tastefully or it can be dealt with crassly. You are choosing to deal with it in the rather crass way. Simply saying "I'm going to express myself as I want too and if you don't like it thats not my problem" can lead to situations like me saying what I really think about you, your mental process and your theories. And neither you, me or more importantly the mods want me doing that.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with you putting out a stupid theory about fluff (unfortunately, I wish there was) however there is with you offending people as you appeared too.


Really if you can't emotionally handle the topic being discussed, why even post in this topic? You are making the conscious effort you keep clicking on this thread, and to keep posting and thus continuing it. Why? Only you know.

Is it my fault Russ is heavily inspired by the Norse God/Goddess Freya? Of sex, death and mortality through fertility.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

We can only solve this problem if we all read _Broke Back Fenris, the Wolf and the Wolves._

Some quotes:

"Its looks like its wolf raping time." -Leman Russ

"Where's the new guy?" - Leman Russ

"If we are to be a close legion... we must rape the Blood Claws... it is the only way." -Leman Russ

"Be Quite Bjorn!!! Do you want to get raped?"


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

You said you wanted a serious discussion I'm giving you one. If you can't form a cohesive argument thats my fault but I do wonder why you bother to post?

It's not my fault you seem to be incapable of presenting an argument with facts to back it up.

Seeing as all your threads turn into people slagging you off why do you continue to post? It's quite obvious 99% of people view you as a joke at best and an expletive at worst (I'm not saying I'm one of them but even if I did and stated so according to you thats nobodies problem but yours).


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## N U R G L E (May 17, 2012)

This is some weird stuff? Why Lux? Why?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

My fellow Ladies and gentlemen, let us not become consumed with one another. But rather think truly from a cultural standpoint why homosexual sex between Rus and the blood claws takes place, it is due to Russ wanting to psychically bond with the blood claws. 

Furthermore they are only called blood claws, due to the blood of Russ that they consume, everything echoes the truth.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Wow, this thread is a load of asswank, why hasn't it been closed yet? it is clearly 7 pages of brainless trolling and arguments.


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## Some Call Me... TIM (Apr 3, 2011)

gen.ahab said:


> "Once the grand pole had been erected, they would all dance around it, take turns as they would climb it and wrap their hands around it while shouting with ecstasy." :rofl:
> 
> Yup, you win.


HAHAHAHAH. YES! :yahoo:



Lux said:


> My fellow Ladies and gentlemen, let us not become consumed with one another. But rather think truly from a cultural standpoint why homosexual sex between Rus and the blood claws takes place, it is due to Russ wanting to psychically bond with the blood claws.
> 
> Furthermore they are only called blood claws, due to the blood of Russ that they consume, everything echoes the truth.


Dude lets talk about the Ultramarines and how they sexually harrassed the Tyranid Fleet on Maccarage... Their only weakness.


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## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

Yeah dude. If you're going to make a funny thread I would have picked another legion.


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## Some Call Me... TIM (Apr 3, 2011)

What made you write this thread?


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

While I am not this subforum's moderator, I would recommend ceasing further discussion of this thread immediately, because this is beyond fucking ridiculous.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

It came to mind recently...why russ disliked sorcery so much...

This is due to magnus being aware of russ's more perverse side...he was always watching russ from his sorcerors tower...riding up and down his magical tower to watch from every height and depth..intently channeling the power of his one eyed cyclops to pierce into russ's most intimate chambers.

It makes sense with mortarion as well, due to them being founded on an S and M Society...


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## Nashnir (Apr 3, 2010)

Lux said:


> This is due to magnus being aware of russ's more perverse side...he was always watching russ from his sorcerors tower...riding up and down his magical tower to watch from every height and depth..intently channeling the power of his one eyed cyclops to pierce into russ's most intimate chambers.


:shok:
:laugh:

I really wish you would write a novel or at least a short story on this. Always like a good laugh once in a while in the grimdark universe


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Wait, so Russ is a homosexual animal molester and Magnus is a pervert voyeur?

Riiiiight...

This thread makes Emperorguard500's one about Russ being a midget seem sensible. 

Seriously, I think people should leave this thread alone, because I really don't see it ending well.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Chompy Bits said:


> Wait, so Russ is a homosexual animal molester and Magnus is a pervert voyeur?
> 
> Riiiiight...
> 
> ...




Now i never said magnus was a voyeur, nor russ a pervert...

I stated magnus rides his tower up and down all day long...so he may watch russ in his intimate moments to ensure he is safe...

Russ is not a pervert from his own percrption, he bonds with his blood claws through sexual means, and psychologically/perhomonally communicates woth the senior members through shamanistic group sex.

The elder wolves sit with the wolf king, and in a cloud of musk and fury they all engage in animalistic group sex, through this they are able to communicate their innermost thoughts simultaneously to all...something words cannot accomplish.

It is what they do during wars or campaigns, so all the generals can be on the same page for tactics.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

Viking society was not heavely influenced by Homosexuality especialy so in that time of age Homosexuality was kept secret by those who where gay. and I can quite readily inform you that beastiality did not realy play a big part in greece as well. 

unless of course you have PROOF to the contrary?


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## arlins (Sep 8, 2010)

Haskanael said:


> unless of course you have PROOF to the contrary?


 
lmao , he never provides proof or reference , He ( or more likly they ) does nothing 
but post for his own amusement .
Troll , ( thats a viking mythical creature as so is an apt description ) be trollin


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## stevey293 (Aug 16, 2011)

why on earth do people reply to his utter pish dont reply then he dosn't get the reaction he want's and hopefully he'll eff off!

but really look at this right from the start this thread was clearly started to cause some form of upset.

lets pick on one of the chapters with the most loyal fans and call their boss man a paedo animal lover who takes things a tad far.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Lux said:


> Now i never said magnus was a voyeur, nor russ a pervert...
> 
> I stated magnus rides his tower up and down all day long...so he may watch russ in his intimate moments to ensure he is safe...


Definition:
Voyeurism is the sexual interest in or practice of *spying on people engaged in intimate behaviors, such as undressing, sexual activity, or other actions usually considered to be of a private nature*.

You didn't state it directly, but your words imply it. Or are you the only one allowed to make assumptions? You also just stated that he watches him in his intimate moments. Implying voyeurism. And to do what? Make sure he remembers the condoms?

And another thing. Magnus had a glass, pyramid-like temple on Prospero. He only fashioned himself an actual tower upon reaching the Planet of the Sorcerers. So what he was supposedly riding up and down only you know. And in anyways, do you really think Magnus had absolutely nothing better to do than spy on Russ the whole day? And who says he is even capable of doing something like that?



Lux said:


> Russ is not a pervert from his own percrption, he bonds with his blood claws through sexual means, and psychologically/perhomonally communicates woth the senior members through shamanistic group sex.
> 
> The elder wolves sit with the wolf king, and in a cloud of musk and fury they all engage in animalistic group sex, through this they are able to communicate their innermost thoughts simultaneously to all...something words cannot accomplish.
> 
> It is what they do during wars or campaigns, so all the generals can be on the same page for tactics.


If you can provide even one single shred of written concrete proof backing up your claims about these supposed group orgies Russ and the Wolves engaged in during their campaigns I'll never question your word again. But I know that won't happen, because that evidence doesn't exist. You are seriously just spewing rubbish at the moment.

I think I'm gonna start calling you Konrad Lux or Lux Haunter from now on, because you seem to have more than one personality. One posts insightful, well thought-out and well written posts. The other one posts this BS.


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## g00dd0ct0r (Oct 27, 2011)

I thought all SM were sterile even the Primarchs because of all the funky organs they have, so would that not veto any rape/beastality/**** acts? As the seniors don't have the junk or spunk to raise a smile let alone anything else?


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## LOCHRIESBLOOD (May 29, 2012)

I stated magnus rides his tower up and down all day long...so he may watch russ in his intimate moments to ensure he is safe...


:laugh: Sounds like a Mills and Boon novel about Magnus secretly loving Russ!

Ah this thread is giving me some ammo to use against my Wolf playin rivals.:wink:


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## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

What Am I Reading


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Ahem. Here I am. 

Let me explain something first and foremost for you all. 

-Internet Forums are a place for discussions. 
-Forums will generally have a set of rules. 
-There are numerous instances in this thread where a fine line is being trod. 

There is a difference between attacking another user's ideas and attacking the user themselves. Those who cannot tell the difference run the risk of receiving an infraction.

Political and religious topics belong in WN&CE. This is for the discussion of a piece of fiction. Parallels can be drawn, but keep the focus of the thread where it should be.


Continue.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Is asking for actual references to all these 'historical facts' that he is basing his theories on considered on topic and productive? If he actually provided those then I would not have had the issues I had last night with this thread. Course his last batch of posts seem to be straight out of Penthouse Letters so I am not sure if it even matters anymore.


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## LOCHRIESBLOOD (May 29, 2012)

Yeah, remember "There are no Wolves on Fenris" so no beastiality..... But plenty of man on man action


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

scscofield said:


> Is asking for actual references to all these 'historical facts' that he is basing his theories on considered on topic and productive? If he actually provided those then I would not have had the issues I had last night with this thread. Course his last batch of posts seem to be straight out of Penthouse Letters so I am not sure if it even matters anymore.


Yes that's considered productive. Allowing for the appropriate variables you would apply when asking Lux for sources. You are familiar with Lux threads yes? 

Lux is a Fenderson if ever I saw one. :wink:


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Difference here is its not all just '40k fluff', this whole thread topic is based off of 'historical facts'. It's all well and good to talk about the fancy pants space vikings, but then to turn around and state that they all enjoy a good prison rape before plugging the pets because of 'that's how the vikings did it!' is not based on fiction anymore.


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

This...is...insane...


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

scscofield said:


> Difference here is its not all just '40k fluff', this whole thread topic is based off of 'historical facts'. It's all well and good to talk about the fancy pants space vikings, but then to turn around and state that they all enjoy a good prison rape before plugging the pets because of 'that's how the vikings did it!' is not based on fiction anymore.


Then counter his facts with yours. Just keep it relevant. I think this will go down better than abuse.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Alright :

http://www.williamapercy.com/wiki/images/Homosexuality_and_Rape_of_Males.pdf
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/gayvik.asp
http://historicromance.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/viking-attitudes-towards-homosexuality/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergi
http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/cot/t0w32homosexuality.htm

At best it was a don't ask don't tell, be sure you get a wife and have kids situation. There was no 'coming of age by ass reaming' involved. General thoughts were more towards dismissal of the 'bottom' involved because they were passive and unmanly to allow it to happen. 

Your counter Lux?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

After spending a couple of moments to get past my disbelief at Lux's latest 'theory', can we look at this from the game developers perspective. The Astartes Legions (or at least most of them) are *very loosely* based on some historical cultures, that doesn't mean that the Legions have to incorporate everything about their respective historical culture. I personally don't know much at all about ancient Scandinavian culture, so I don't know whether some of the sweeping statements _Lux_ has made are even remotely supported by evidence. But one thing we can be sure of is that the VI Legion was never intended to incorporate such things from ancient Scandinavian culture (if indeed they were a part of said culture). I guarantee whichever game developer came up with the idea of the Space Wolves did not even contemplate that someone years later would associate their loose association with Scandinavian culture with such things as you have done _Lux_. Space Marines and their Primarchs are/were asexual, sexual desire/sex has no part in their society. In fact it generally has no part in the 40k universe due to the setting/game being aimed partly at a younger audience - remember that AD-B was forced to mildly allude to Cyrene being raped in _The First Heretic_ (as a reality of war) rather than outright stating it or obviously implying it because his higher-ups at BL put the idea down. I usually enjoy your crazed theories _Lux_, but you've really crossed a line with this one. 

If you want to expand this into a more serious discussion about the extents to which Astartes Legion homeworld culture has absorbed that of real-life ancient cultures, you may be onto something. But the reaction you have recieved was only to be expected given what you focussed on.

Also, when are you going to listen? Theories that are well thought out and supported (at least in part) by established lore are very welcome, but when you consistently refuse to cite evidence and are essentially just making things up, please post them in homebrew.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

This has the potential to be an interesting discussion of whether Fenrisian ritual is similar to Viking ritual, and whether anthropological studies of real cultures can expand our understanding of fiction.

Starting with whether Vikings might have practised ritual homosexuality:

Academic study of Norse shamanism supports some male shaman adopting the female role, including receptive sexuality, for ritual purposes. (e.g. Blain, Jenny _Nine Worlds of Seid-Magic_ (2002)).

In addition, some consider their world view to be that the female incubated a child but it grew from sperm without her adding anything. As they believed in magical power from physical lineage this would make sperm a transmitter of that power.

So, the idea of ritual homosexuality to introduce a spiritual bond is not against the evidence of Viking society.

I have not read enough Space Wolf background to know whether there are direct discussions of magical method from which we can extrapolate whether Fenrisians have a similar world-view.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

http://www.seidh.org/articles/sex-status-seidh/

I actually found what Lux was getting his 'facts' from I think. He garbled it though, the whole ritual coming of age thing was something done on the island of Crete. 

Going to have to read the article more, too tired to process it fully atm, will look into it when I wake back up.

Edit: I found the Anti-Lux! 







Alright, sleep time


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

Posting in epic Lux thread.


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## infernalcaretaker (Nov 12, 2008)




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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Good Eve Gentlemen, and ladies alike.

Well I thought now would be a decent time to mention the burial rituals the Vikings/Scandinavians performed for their dead and respected.

Firstly they disown the olf Wolf, stripped him butt naked and admired his genetalia for a good while. Than they lowered him into his grave and put with him several kegs of intoxicating booze, oddly shaped fruits, and most often an instrument with string used for asphyxiation. They than had two honored animals (in the case for the space wolves, their Blood claws aka Wolves), these animals ran around the grave until they were intensely sweaty, than the legion/clan cuts them into pieces and throws their "meat" into the ship (his grave)...finally they than sacrificed a chosen cock.

Additionally while all of this is taking place a chosen Thrall Girl, in the case in the space wolves it was most likely a chosen Thrall initiate (blood claw), went from one tent to another and had rough vigorous sex with every member of the legion/clan. After this the Thrall Bloodclaw was put into a device of which he was to connect with past fallen members of the clan/legion and state what it is he perceives. AKA this is known as connecting the living with the dead, which vikings focused heavily on for using the dead as a means of guidance. Ultimately the Thrall Blood Claw is to see his past/recently deceased Wolf Lord, of which he is than suppose to connect with sexually.

By using intoxicating drinks, they thought to put the thrall Blood Claw in an ecstatic trance that made her psychic and through the symbolic action with the device, he would then see into the realm of the dead.The same ritual also appears in the Icelandic short story Völsa þáttr where two pagan Norwegian men lift the chosen thrall of the legion/clan over a plethora of "openings" to help her look into the otherworld, of which she would than fist madly into until the "openings" were satisfied.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Admittedly it is Wikipedia but all the same, I can't find anything about fisting or men taking women to openings? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Völsa_þáttr


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## LOCHRIESBLOOD (May 29, 2012)

Can't wait to show this to my Space Wolf playing mate. I wont let him use his Blood Claws untill hes had rough sex with them all.:laugh:


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## LOCHRIESBLOOD (May 29, 2012)

normtheunsavoury said:


> Admittedly it is Wikipedia but all the same, I can't find anything about fisting or men taking women to openings?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Völsa_þáttr


 
What about power fisting?


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

All hail the Mighty Gape and his sidekick Mefisto!


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)




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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> All hail the Mighty Gape and his sidekick Mefisto!


Damnit Norm, now I have to clean coffee off my keyboard again.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

I must say, not being funny, that this thread is actually disturbing. I am disturbed that someone would go to these lengths to try and make a non-existent correlation between homosexuality/beastiality and a fictional hero who is not explored in depth by very many books. Every single one of these arguments by lux is based on lurid studies of norse culture, and awful lot of which is untrue or rumours spread by enemies of norse society(anglo-saxons, monks etc..)


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

However that is just the tip of the massive erect poll, there is more....more to the rituals that the space wolves regularly perform...

After the Thrall blood claw is taken away to the ship (Burial device of the fallen wolf lord), he is to remove his power armor and any sigils upon himself and give them to the Wolf Priest/Shaman (in viking mythos this is known as the old lady, basically the seer of the tribe). The Wolf Priest/Shaman (old lady in viking mythos) would than distribute the Blood Claws power armor, sigils, talismans, blessings, to the other younger initiates who had grown up with the chosen Blood claw. They then take the now stripped down blood claw aboard the burial ship, they than utterly intoxicate the blood claw with gallons of booze and drugs.

Then once the blood claw is highly intoxicated/drugged out of his mind, he is quickly and forcefully pulled into the innermost chamber of the burial ship and the Older wolf lords inside begin to vigorously beat their shields, faster and quicker with gasping breath the wolf lords would beat, stroke, and whack their shields so the noise would drown out any noise the blood claw is about to make. SIX Wolf Lords, I repeat SIX wolf lords than enter the tent and have bloody, sweaty, provocative kinky intercourse with the chosen blood claw, of which after they throw him into the dead wolf lords bed which is in the middle of the room where all of this is happening. Two of the Wolf Lords than grab his hands, and two wolf lords his wrists, then Angron (Angel of Death in viking mythos, the being that connects all tribes/legions regardless of where they are through a universal experience, AKA universal unity through death as a medium) puts a power rope around his neck while two men pull the rope. In the blood claws fleeting moments of joyous ecstasy the Wolf Priest/shaman than puts a power sword between the blood claws buttox and vigoursly rams him for a good 20 minutes. Following this all the wolf lords and priests exit the ship, set it on auto pilot and as it soars off into the atmosphere they fire upon it with over 3000 pounds of Anti Air munitions and watch it ignite into a great ball of fire.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_funeral#Ibn_Fadlan.27s_account

It looks like if you replace Thrall with Bloodclaw you can get all kinds of interesting stories, this Ibn Fadlan guy was a horndog.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

scscofield said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_funeral#Ibn_Fadlan.27s_account
> 
> It looks like if you replace Thrall with Bloodclaw you can get all kinds of interesting stories, this Ibn Fadlan guy was a horndog.


As I said, everything I have posted in this thread is drawn from, sourced from, and based on actual real life research and published documents.

From the Maypole ritual, to the homosexuality that was extremely HEAVY in viking history documents, to bestiality, to the rite of passage for young blood claws / males in being sexually experienced by older wolf lords/ males.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

mcmuffin said:


> I must say, not being funny, that this thread is actually disturbing. I am disturbed that someone would go to these lengths to try and make a non-existent correlation between homosexuality/beastiality and a fictional hero who is not explored in depth by very many books. Every single one of these arguments by lux is based on lurid studies of norse culture, and awful lot of which is untrue or rumours spread by enemies of norse society(anglo-saxons, monks etc..)


I am curious about why this disturbs you: 

As I see it, if Space wolves are asexual then ritual penetration is entirely magical so no more disturbing than rune-casting; if they are sexual beings then homosexuality is just as valid an orientation as any other.

Having cited Blain (2002) above I would contest that all evidence of Norse homosexual behaviour is draw from lurid studies.

However, the interpretation of Norse funerary customs as "fisting" does not match any of the sources I have seen so - without citations to support the thrall fisting rather than peering through the orifices - I hold that to be unsubstantiated


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> I am curious about why this disturbs you:
> 
> As I see it, if Space wolves are asexual then ritual penetration is entirely magical so no more disturbing than rune-casting; if they are sexual beings then homosexuality is just as valid an orientation as any other.
> 
> ...


The fisting portion is actually drawn from what they do the Thrall post of intoxicating her, she is quite literally taken into the burial boat and raped by 6 older lords of the clan for a lengthy amount of time. Fisting? That is just the beginning, the published accounts quite clearly state they rape her sexually, asphyxiate her with choking, as well as use ritual cutting to induce pleasure. Fisting isn't too far out of the question here.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Lux said:


> ...the published accounts quite clearly state they rape her sexually, asphyxiate her with choking, as well as use ritual cutting to induce pleasure.


I am not disputing the erotic murder of a thrall I am seeking specific citation of fisting orifices as part of a funerary divination. Specifically:



Lux said:


> The same ritual also appears in the Icelandic short story Völsa þáttr where two pagan Norwegian men lift the chosen thrall of the legion/clan over a plethora of "openings" to help her look into the otherworld, of which she would than fist madly into until the "openings" were satisfied.


The translations of Völsa þáttr I have read do not contain reference to the specific ritual you describe. Which translator and edition contains the fisting?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> I am not disputing the erotic murder of a thrall I am seeking specific citation of fisting orifices as part of a funerary divination. Specifically:
> 
> 
> 
> The translations of Völsa þáttr I have read do not contain reference to the specific ritual you describe. Which translator and edition contains the fisting?


I retract my portion about the Thrall fisting, it seems you are correct I am unable to find any concrete documentation stating the Thrall fists. Rather it appears as stated prior she simply gazes into the men's open orifices which I interpret to be their anuses or and or genitalia.

Slightly off topic, but do you dabble in the study of more "occult" topics? I use the term occult very broadly due to that what is considered occult varies from society to society, If I were to compare my experiences from when I was in the States, to when I was China, norms are entirely different. 

Furthermore are you familiar with studies on the Left hand path?

EDIT: The fisting portion I derived from when it describes what the 6 lords do to the Thrall right prior to them putting her in the deceased Lord's bed. It was my own interpretation that fisting was part of the broad description of sexual acts (IE asphyxiation, cutting, anal sex, etc), thus since I am unable to find anything to support "Fisting" I will retract that portion. However, the raping, anal sex, asphyxiation, cutting for sexual orgasm, I stand by as that there is documentation to support.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Actually Dave T hobbit, I do believe I would like to have meaningful discussion with you in part due to that it seems you are able to perceive past the societal norms that often restrict the paradigm employed by individuals.

I honestly find nothing disturbing or wrong with the potential fact that Vikings, Scandinavians, and for that matter near every human society in history having traits of homosexuality, bestiality, human sacrifice, and by today's western standards "morally wrong" practices.

However I feel it is inaccurate to employ such a hindsigh bias when assessing, and analyzing past societies, civilizations. For the standard of normality of which their society operated upon was based upon their chronological context of need, desires, and social expectations.

As of present day most societies have experienced evolution, and some revolution (entirely different in effect), of which has shifted the needs, desires, expectations of the masses which fundamentally shifts the mode of normality.

For Normality is defined ultimately by the expectations and desires of the masses, it is what dictates and shapes laws, it is what shapes and brings forth the style and rule of the governing body.

As the mind set and perceptions of the masses change in any given society so too will the line or normality, of which effects what is considered "morally acceptable".

I just find it all so fascinating that humans have such a internal struggle with accepting that the very wide spread practices they partake in today such as christmas, easter, to every day practices of putting up wind charms, using incense...all traces back to rituals which would see horribly inhuman today. But the truth is christmas, the maypole ritual, easter all derived from Pagan rituals, as well as other religions/philosophies/Ethos operations, of which often involved human sacrifice, sex with of children, bestiality...

Fundamentally I ask...is it so hard to accept that your roots derive from rape, beastiality, homosexuality, murder, jealousy, the desire to survive at all cost...and ultimately the desire to be "normal"?

Funny how the desire to be "normal" has dictated much of humanity ever since the dawn of mankind, centuries ago it was normal to have sex with children, to sodomize young boys, and have sex with animals...why did they do this? Why of course to be normal, for when you are part of the norm your chances of survival are much higher.

Perhaps some of you do not grasp the very concept of that years ago your chances of survival hinged in large part on how successful the society was that you were ingrained in.

Even today, survival purely by ones own self would prove impossible for most, all are ingrained in society...even those who strive so hard to abstain from the norm they too are just as much part of the norm as the person they try so hard to be different from.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

I think it should be quite clear why this is disturbing. 

Graphic descriptions of rape, fisting and general extreme sexual activities, in my opinion, do not belong in a thread about 40k background without explicit evidence and equal detail of occurrences of these incidents in 40k background.

I've said all i am going to say on this matter.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Lux said:


> ...do you dabble in the study of more "occult" topics? I use the term occult very broadly due to that what is considered occult varies from society to society, If I were to compare my experiences from when I was in the States, to when I was China, norms are entirely different.


I have studied religion, mysticism, and magic for approximately twenty years, and practised operative magic for most of that time.



Lux said:


> Furthermore are you familiar with studies on the Left hand path?


I am more familiar with Vamachara rthan the Western LHP; however I have read some literature on the area and interacted with Setians on several occasions.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

This thread:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lux said:


> *SIX Wolf Lords, I repeat SIX wolf lords than enter the tent and have bloody, sweaty, provocative kinky intercourse with the chosen blood claw*





Lux said:


> *Two of the Wolf Lords than grab his hands, and two wolf lords his wrists, then Angron puts a power rope around his neck while two men pull the rope.*





Lux said:


> *the Wolf Priest/shaman than puts a power sword between the blood claws buttox and vigoursly rams him for a good 20 minutes.*





Dave T Hobbit said:


> I am curious about why this disturbs you


I am curious as to why the quoted passages above don't disturb you.

None of Lux's 'theories' in this thread have a place in 40k lore.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I am curious as to why the quoted passages above don't disturb you.
> 
> None of Lux's 'theories' in this thread have a place in 40k lore.


I suppose it is fortunate that you do not decide what does and does not belong in a thread.

I see strong parallels between the space wolves, their rituals and practices, to Viking culture, scandanavian culture, culture from Crete/Greece.

Just because you do not like it, does not mean it does not get to be discussed in a thread.

If you can not separate your own identity and self value from that of which you attach to a fictional entity (warhammer space wolves), that is not my issue that is your own.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I am curious as to why the quoted passages above don't disturb you.


My questioning why it disturbs people was in response to a comment on the linking of Space Wolf heroes and homosexuality being disturbing. I was not questioning why people might find details of practice disturbing.

However, some Tibetan Shamanistic initiations involve the initiate being psychically torn apart by demons and devoured before rebuilding themselves by will alone, so the idea of genetically enhanced super-beings indulging in sexually charged ritual mutilation does not trouble me as a topic for discussion.

I disagree that a discussion of which other traits of Viking culture the Space Wolves might have is out of place in a 40K Fluff forum.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Lux said:


> I suppose it is fortunate that you do not decide what does and does not belong in a thread.
> 
> I see strong parallels between the space wolves, their rituals and practices, to Viking culture, scandanavian culture, culture from Crete/Greece.
> 
> Just because you do not like it, does not mean it does not get to be discussed in a thread.


There are no grounds for these parallels except the fact that you seem to want there to be some deeper sexual deviancy in a legion of beardy space men who are loosely based on norse culture.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

mcmuffin said:


> There are no grounds for these parallels except the fact that you seem to want there to be some deeper sexual deviancy in a legion of beardy space men who are loosely based on norse culture.


I think David T Hobbit illustrated it very nicely, has it ever occurred to you that perhaps the vivid descriptions of initiates being subjected to demonic possession, and they are limb by limb torn apart by demons? Who often indulge in sexual flights of violence, pleasure, deception.

Yet it never crossed your mind this may in fact be symbolic for sexual intercourse/RAPE occurring?

The practices and rituals done by the space wolves in the FLUFF is extremely paralleled to documented RAPE, SEX, and Violence rituals done by vikings and Scandinavia in history.

Try seen beyond the glossy mask and maybe you will see that a majority of the legions in Warhammer actually are very realistic in their practices, save for the glossy coat of paint put on them.


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

Christ Lux, are you Tzeentch himself? For your theories and ideas are more complex and unfounded than anything us regular mortals could come up with....Have you ever considered that all of these theories that you present are ENTIRELY circumstantial and you yourself are making comparisons that were not intended to be made!?!?!?!


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Lux is the sub-conscious creation of the combined sentience of Heresy-Online, sent to punish and confuse us with bizarre theories for our 40K sins.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Shattertheirsky said:


> Christ Lux, are you Tzeentch himself? For your theories and ideas are more complex and unfounded than anything us regular mortals could come up with....Have you ever considered that all of these theories that you present are ENTIRELY circumstantial and you yourself are making comparisons that were not intended to be made!?!?!?!


Lets use a simple example to highlight just how realistic warhammer actually is in its paralleled fashion to history.

The Emperor's Mercy, often used to kill traitors who are deemed to deserve some sort of "mercy" or "redemption". You do realize that the Emperor's Mercy was actual a real life action used in Roman days? Want to know what it was? Death by through being sodomized/sexual actions often.

You seem to be unable to grasp that though rape and sodomizing people to death seems heinous and horrific to you, it was actually the norm back during that time was seeing as entirely NORMAL AND ACCEPTABLE.

Lets do another, often times initiates for both Chaos and the Grey Knights of which is one of the highest orders of the human Empire, were to be purposefuly possessed. The novels than detail that possession included them being torn to pieces then psychically reassembled, do you even know what this is symbolic for? During older orders of Knights, such as knights of the templars before anyone was allowed into the highest ranks they would often be simply GANG BANGED by the older male members. Yeah it was bloody, violent, and grueling, do you know why they did it? Because it bonded the initiate with them, and reduced their chances of ever leaving the order, it was to test if they had the psychological make up to be in the order. The same exact thing the grey knights do to their members, for the same exact testing/filtering purpose.

This practice wasnt exclusive to knights of the templar either, many empires and societies had initiation practices which involved bestiality, homosexuality. Of which its funny because it was mostly military legions societies just like the space marines.

I'll make other threads to detail those, that's for another time.


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

Don't patronise me Lux, you're not as divinely clever as you think you are.....The simple, matter-of-fact answer is that Games Workshop and Black Library are both respectable companies. Heavy undertones of rape and sodomy are not an acceptable part of today's society and the two companies in question do well to steer clear of these. This combined with your blaring lack of evidence at any proper, clear references to these things that you are raring to quote and present as primary evidence shows that you are jumping at shadows, and making comparisons where there are none to be made.

Sit down, and stop despoiling this forum with your rubbish....


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Lux said:


> I think David T Hobbit illustrated it very nicely, has it ever occurred to you that perhaps the vivid descriptions of initiates being subjected to demonic possession, and they are limb by limb torn apart by demons? Who often indulge in sexual flights of violence, pleasure, deception.
> 
> Yet it never crossed your mind this may in fact be symbolic for sexual intercourse/RAPE occurring?
> 
> ...


Try seeing* 


Eh, GW do not indulge in semantics to this level, you are finding what you wish to see through long, rambling and ultimately nothing posts. Their creations are inspired by ancient cultures, however I have never read any piece of fluff on the space wolves that even remotely suggested a wolf priest shoves hos power sword up a blood claw's arsehole. Nor have i read an account of 6 wolf lords raping someone, granted their are references to space wolves with women, they never explore it in the graphic detail that you seem to enjoy polluting the forum with. 

I have explored scandinavian rituals in depth, i am aware that there were certain instances of beastiality and homosexuality (not that i have no issue whatsoever with homosexuality). However to try and rationalise your own theories with references to a culture which the Space Wolves are only loosely based upon is a futile attempt. It will never possibly be rational for space wolves to perform sado masochistic rituals on each other simply because that is not (and never will be as long as this game remains targeted at a younger audience) the angle that the Black Library writers and games workshop background writers will take with them.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Shattertheirsky said:


> Don't patronise me Lux, you're not as divinely clever as you think you are.....The simple, matter-of-fact answer is that Games Workshop and Black Library are both respectable companies. Heavy undertones of rape and sodomy are not an acceptable part of today's society and the two companies in question do well to steer clear of these. This combined with your blaring lack of evidence at any proper, clear references to these things that you are raring to quote and present as primary evidence shows that you are jumping at shadows, and making comparisons where there are none to be made.
> 
> Sit down, and stop despoiling this forum with your rubbish....


Is it really that hard to interact with a user's post as the mods have already stated to do? And not attack the user directly which you continue to do?

They already stated infractions will be handed out.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Whoever said that Lux's account is used by multiple people is bang on the money. Let's see:
- Mystical Lux: Wacky theories, with an excessive use of ellipses. See "The Sanguine Mistress".
- Outrageous Lux: Theories intended to incite anger, repulsion or disgust the reader. See this thread.
- Questionable Lux: Asks fairly understandable questions about fluff. See "The Outsider is the Hivemind".
- Versus Lux: Posts bland threads about various "versus" scenarios. See "Can the entirety of the Grey Knights hold off an Ork WAAGH?".


Amirite?


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

Don't forget bad grammar Lux!


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

I read the original post and skipped everything else just to state the fact that I like the idea that the Space Wolves are all homosexuals.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

Admit it, you guys love Lux. Otherwise you wouldn't be talking to him as if he were sane enough to make sense of what you were saying. :rofl:

Also, I would like to submit the idea that Lux is the daemon that will eventually ascend to a Chaos god once there is enough insanity on the Internet all at once. Like Khorne being born from the slaughter of millions, Lux will rise on a throne made of flame wars, conspiracy theories, and viagra spam mail.

You know this to be true; and we have no one to blame but ourselves.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> Whoever said that Lux's account is used by multiple people is bang on the money. Let's see:
> - Mystical Lux: Wacky theories, with an excessive use of ellipses. See "The Sanguine Mistress".
> - Outrageous Lux: Theories intended to incite anger, repulsion or disgust the reader. See this thread.
> - Questionable Lux: Asks fairly understandable questions about fluff. See "The Outsider is the Hivemind".
> ...


also his wildly varing posting times, some threads he just posts once or twice and others like this he posts every other post


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

I assure you to the utmost that I am but one individual, the very passing thought that I am but more than one entity operating this digital medium of communication is dare I say it ludicrous!


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

shouldnt it be luxicrus............



sorry


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

Don't you dare say that this

'So post heresey the G went around hunting the traiterous primarchs, he supposedly killed alpharius to start off his murder-athon. But what was the point? Wouldn't alpharius jus be respawned in the warp? Are fallen primarchs even physical?

Then the G went after fulgrim, what was he thinking? Was fulgrim even killable? And what made fulgrim so easily bitch slap grand daddy G to the grave?

Furthermore, what are primarchs (unfallen) made of, are they physical? Secondly, what are fallen primarchs made of, are they the same physiologically as unfallen? Was fulgrim physical? What about angron? Or alpharius or night haunter? Why was horus physical?'

^^ONE OF YOUR THREADS

Is the same as the eloquence of...

I assure you to the utmost that I am but one individual, the very passing thought that I am but more than one entity operating this digital medium of communication is dare I say it ludicrous!


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I have for awhile now assumed that Lux is just one of the mods or a group of them that get bored or feel the need to shake things up every other month.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

khrone forever said:


> shouldnt it be luxicrus............
> 
> 
> 
> sorry


It is okay, now let us cease this spree of digression and return to the topic at hand.

Furthermore I do believe that Russ was sexually man handled by his father, I believe Russ went through the coming of age ritual of Crete with his father the Emperor when he was found.

Upon the Emperor landing on the planet and finding Russ, he subjected Russ to the coming of age ritual of which brought Russ into psychic maturity and oneness with his father the Emperor. It would make sense, for than Russ replicated the sexual action with every new recruit likely.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

> Furthermore I do believe that Russ was sexual man handled by his father, I believe Russ went through the coming of age ritual of Crete with his father the Emperor when he was found.


where do you get the basis for this theory from?


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Lux said:


> It is okay, now let us cease this spree of digression and return to the topic at hand.
> 
> Furthermore I do believe that Russ was sexually man handled by his father, I believe Russ went through the coming of age ritual of Crete with his father the Emperor when he was found.
> 
> Upon the Emperor landing on the planet and finding Russ, he subjected Russ to the coming of age ritual of which brought Russ into psychic maturity and oneness with his father the Emperor. It would make sense, for than Russ replicated the sexual action with every new recruit likely.


At this point i really think you need to go see some one


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Ploss? :dunno:


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

mcmuffin said:


> At this point i really think you need to go see some one


In the frigid winds of the frost globe that Russ inhabited, he was but a untamed beast seething and foaming at the mouth. When discovered by the Emperor , it was proclaimed that Russ needed to be psychically tamed, for Russ was forged the ever elusive canine DNA just as all the primarchs had variations in their genetic make up.

Was it an easy task? By all conventional means, no. But the Emperor invoked guile and cunning, first he channeled slothfulness and intoxicated Russ through a round of drinking, than bloated him full of lardy foods to slow his thought process due to blood being circulated to the stomach, of which he than sexually evolved Russ in the middle of his kingdom.

The Emperor was crafty and intelligent, he slowed Russ down mentally and physically with two empty challenges that he put into the mind of Russ telepathically, of which he than grappled with russ Physically for days on end in front of all the inhabitants to watch in that grand hall. By the end of it, he had ridden and tamed that wild Wolf Stallion known as Russ the Wolf King.

The sexual act transmitted the psychic signature needed to activate Russ's unwavering loyalty genes in his genetic make up.

P.S. Those asking what this is based, I really am basing this off of Viking history of where fathers would actually "physically" break in their sons to prepare them for the hardship of life at the coming of age.

P.S.2. I am also drawing parallels between the social rituals of Crete that the Father/Authoritative males would to do the younger males to show them rank and file of society and prepare them mentally.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Reaming leman russ up the ass does not create a psychic signature.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lux said:


> P.S. Those asking what this is based, I really am basing this off of Viking history of where fathers would actually "physically" break in their sons to prepare them for the hardship of life at the coming of age.
> 
> P.S.2. I am also drawing parallels between the social rituals of Crete that the Father/Authoritative males would to do the younger males to show them rank and file of society and prepare them mentally.


Even if that was the case, why did such things have to happen in Space Wolf culture?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Even if that was the case, why did such things have to happen in Space Wolf culture?


Because Space Wolves are heavily based on Scandinavian culture with very strong parallels to Greece/Crete societal practices?

Really if anyone would just read the thread, they would see sources have actually been posted multiple times. Did I point out every time what my sources were? But those who were able to read between the lines were easily able to see what books, and documents I was drawing my sources from and they posted them.

Really none of this is baseless as some keep claiming, although I suppose some don't want to read through 140+ posts.


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

So you're saying when the emperor finds each primarch he gives them a good ol' riding? Incestuos Emperor going at it with his own flesh and blood? Thats a new one!


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## dtq (Feb 19, 2009)

mcmuffin said:


> Try seeing*
> 
> 
> Eh, GW do not indulge in semantics to this level, you are finding what you wish to see through long, rambling and ultimately nothing posts. Their creations are inspired by ancient cultures, however I have never read any piece of fluff on the space wolves that even remotely suggested a wolf priest shoves hos power sword up a blood claw's arsehole. Nor have i read an account of 6 wolf lords raping someone, granted their are references to space wolves with women, they never explore it in the graphic detail that you seem to enjoy polluting the forum with.
> ...


Black library have covered bestiality in the Horus heresy series, the ritual to revive Horus involved "the unlovely coupling of a woman and a pig" I believe. I'm pretty certain that similar rites have been mentioned elsewhere with reference to chaos worship. They aren't unwilling to cover it briefly. The fact that they have elsewhere but don't go so far at all with the wolves suggests that they don't consider it part of the space wolf culture.

I remain quite convinced that space marines remain pretty much eunuchs dues to the conversion process, even the Emporers children, fallen to Slaanesh, when they held their big party amongst the remembrancers, they didn't start raping and pillaging they picked up the musical instruments to make some noise. I remain to be convinced that even Slaanesh worshiping marines have any interest in sexual matters let alone those not under the sway of the god of pleasure...


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

2 words
Comedy gold



Can I have a link to the sanguinary mistress stuff please?


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Lux said:


> Because Space Wolves are heavily based on Scandinavian culture with very strong parallels to Greece/Crete societal practices?
> 
> Really if anyone would just read the thread, they would see sources have actually been posted multiple times. Did I point out every time what my sources were? But those who were able to read between the lines were easily able to see what books, and documents I was drawing my sources from and they posted them.
> 
> Really none of this is baseless as some keep claiming, although I suppose some don't want to read through 140+ posts.


Space wolves are loosely based on scandinavian culture, however most of the practices listed in the space wolf novels are very simply based on generic tribal cultures, only the environment, names and attitude to battle are resemblant of norse culture, You also make it seem like homosexual rape, incest and general bumholing were standard in all norse culture, which they were not, you only cite what evidence suits you.


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## Shattertheirsky (May 26, 2012)

Indeed Lost&Damned


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Lost&Damned said:


> 2 words
> Comedy gold
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=94106


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## Logaan (May 10, 2012)

Tears here, pure tears.

When I start an army, I like to immerse myself in the fluff and background to get a good idea of how I want it to look.

Having read the last 15 pages, I am pretty terrifed what would happen to me should I ever decide to start playing Space Wolves. I can only imagine it would be some evil hybrid of The Vikings meets Deliverance.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Logaan said:


> Tears here, pure tears.


Is that from being bumholed by Daddy-Emperor? :laugh:


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Lux said:


> the more I research the legions the more it is apparent to me that several legions practiced sodomy, homosexuality, bestiality, and rape.


It's apparent to you maybe, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone that agrees with you. I can guarantee it is not apparent to Graham McNeill, Dan Abnett, ADB, James Swallow, Gav Thorpe, the editorial staff at BL, GW's head of IP Alan Merrit or the board of management at GW. 

I just can't imagine any of the above saying at an editorial meeting "Hey, ya know what? I feel like introducing some underlying themes into my next book of bestiality, homosexuality, paedophilia and rape just to see if there's anybody out there batshit crazy/stupid/deluded/sick (delete as applicable) enough to pick up on them."

As said before, just because the fluff of the various legions or chapter draws on elements of ancient civilizations for inspiration, that doesn't mean they use every last grim and grizzly little detail. Seriously, if this is the kind of thing that occupies your time you really need to get a girlfriend.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Khorne's Fist said:


> It's apparent to you maybe, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone that agrees with you. I can guarantee it is not apparent to Graham McNeill, Dan Abnett, ADB, James Swallow, Gav Thorpe, the editorial staff at BL, GW's head of IP Alan Merrit or the board of management at GW.
> 
> I just can't imagine any of the above saying at an editorial meeting "Hey, ya know what? I feel like introducing some underlying themes into my next book of bestiality, homosexuality, paedophilia and rape just to see if there's anybody out there batshit crazy/stupid/deluded/sick (delete as applicable) enough to pick up on them."
> 
> As said before, just because the fluff of the various legions or chapter draws on elements of ancient civilizations for inspiration, that doesn't mean they use every last grim and grizzly little detail. Seriously, if this is the kind of thing that occupies your time you really need to get a girlfriend.


My dear, dear, fellow Heresy forums poster let us not bicker between one another with semi personal insult. Who is to say I do not already possess a human emotional significant other?

But I digress it seems to be to be the opposite of what you state. You present the fact that these legions though based on realistic societies, don't necessarily contain the grim dark details of said societies. Yet through all the fluff every legion is so heavily based on their own perspective historical society that it would be ignorant to ignore the very fact that they do include these dark, grim realistic details.

Through this entire thread multiple posters have posted very precise examples from the fluff where rape, bestiality with a pig, gang banging, all takes place. Furthermore the fluff quite often masks rape, homosexual sodomy with a light gloss such as Grey Knights which are a splitting image of the knights of the templar, doing their forced possession initiation ritual. This is exactly what the knights of the templar did to their initiates, detail for detail of what the fluff describes. "Being torn apart from the inside out, limb by limb, broken down", this is exactly what the knights of templar did to their initiates except with rape, sodomy, and psychological torture.

Perhaps you should wait till midnight...than step into a dark, cold, musky room, lite a single candle, strip down naked...stand before a 8 foot tall Victorian era mirror...and take a long, slow, sensual look at yourself.

Perhaps it is you who is blinding yourself, to the...truth.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Lux said:


> But I digress it seems to be to be the opposite of what you state. You present the fact that these legions though based on realistic societies, don't necessarily contain the grim dark details of said societies. Yet through all the fluff every legion is so heavily based on their own perspective historical society that it would be ignorant to ignore the very fact that they do include these dark, grim realistic details.


I am not aware of any evidence indicating that nordic culture, or vikings in particular, wore form fitting leather masks and armour at all time. Yet the Space Wolves do this. They also wear power armour and ride wolves, things with no clear ties to nordic culture. Clearly their are aspects to the Space Wolf culture, and Fenresian culture, which are not drawn directly from the vikings. That being the case why must we assume that all aspects of the inspiring culture *must* be present? The Space Wolves are inspired by the vikings but they are not vikings. Their culture is similar in many ways but it is not the same. How about rather than going into unnecessary detail regarding the nature of the sex acts the vikings preformed you back up your theory by proving that these rituals take place, as described, amongst the Space Wolves. It is not enough to say that 'they are inspired by the vikings and must therefore ape all aspects of their culture' because this is not true. Prove that the Space Wolves do it, cite something in 40k canon that shows it happening. 



> Furthermore the fluff quite often masks rape, homosexual sodomy with a light gloss such as Grey Knights which are a splitting image of the knights of the templar, doing their forced possession initiation ritual.


I'd point out that: 1) The daemonic possession is an Exorcist ritual, not a Grey Knight one (AFAIK) 2) The marines are in fact actually being possessed. Its not a euphemism, its whats actually occurring. Now that's not to say that daemonic possession is not symbolic of rape, it very well could be. The xenomorphs in Alien are very heavily symbolic of rape but if you watch the movie you'll note that it's actually about aliens. Daemonic possession of recruits might be reminiscent of a gang-rape initiation ritual to some but they're not the same, one involves a daemon entering into your soul, the other involves old men entering into your ass. Daemon-in-soul=/=men-in-ass.


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## Lord Solar Macharius (Oct 5, 2010)

So why hasn't this thread been locked?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Solar Lord Macharius said:


> So why hasn't this thread been locked?


Why would it be locked?


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## Lord Solar Macharius (Oct 5, 2010)

Well...



The Forum Rules said:


> *Do not post porn or adult content.* This also includes sites promoting drug abuse, gambling and links to sites containing such content. Non-pornographic adult related material (such as lingerie) is allowed, as long as you provide a warning in your post. However, if you feel the need to post scantily clad females ask yourself “am I on the right forum?"


Let me put this another way: would you tell a 12-year old noob at a Games Workshop store about how the Space Wolves are gay zoophiles whose primarch had incestual sex with the God-Emperor of Mankind? No? Then why the hell are you posting it here?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Solar Lord Macharius said:


> Well...


I dont think this is quite the same thing...

This is indepth discussion on a cross analysis of warhammer 40k literature and historical socities that draw strong parallels


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Yeah SLM, whats your problem? We're having a civil examination of the Space Wolves' internal practices and you're coming in here with your puffy chest trying to ruin everything. This discussion is imperative to everyone whether you know it or not.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

This discussion is a farse and quite frankly tarnishes the image of Heresy as a whole in my opinion. I hardly think new members will think highly of this sort of shit.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

MEQinc said:


> The xenomorphs in Alien are very heavily symbolic of rape but if you watch the movie you'll note that it's actually about aliens.


Waitwaitwait...does this mean I should stop cranking it to _Aliens_?


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Solar Lord Macharius said:


> Well...
> 
> 
> 
> Let me put this another way: would you tell a 12-year old noob at a Games Workshop store about how the Space Wolves are gay zoophiles whose primarch had incestual sex with the God-Emperor of Mankind? No? Then why the hell are you posting it here?


You know, I hate to say it... but he's got a point.

Thing is, we do have a no adult content rule. And we're pretty lax about it. But this thread has gone on for 16 pages about Leman Russ having gay sex. It's like something horrible that crawled its way out of /tg/ or deviantart, kicking and screaming... 

Think about it for a second. We've got a million and three registered members, but you don't HAVE to register to view the site. It's not exactly good to have content accessible to minors like this. So we have the no adult content rule. 

So I'm going to lock this thread. Not because SLM was bitching, but because it actually is in violation of forum rules, despite being relatively civil. Thing is, we do have to be mindful of the content on here, and if Games Workshop gets uppity about us having something that doesn't mesh with the idea they have for their product (and somehow I don't think a 16-page discussion about how *fabulous* Leman Russ does...) then we can be subject to some unpleasantness with the long arm of Games Workshop's legal department. We're dealing with their intellectual property, after all, and they reserve the right to shut it down if they don't like it. Annoying? Yes. Ridiculous? Sometimes. But them's the breaks. 

Now, for those of you who are Supporters (and it looks like many of you are), you may continue this discussion in The Endgame, which is a subscription-only area where we don't have to worry about the rules as strictly.


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