# Versus... White Lions



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Hi everybody

So continuing the newer "Versus..." threads we have White Lions, as proposed by coke123.

White Lions (WL) are HE so have ASF, are S6, stubborn and can wander through forests at will. This is one of the most resilient HE units around, with 3+ saves against shooting, higher S makes them less vulnerable to dwellers (which normally make ssuch a mess of elven units) and rerolling to hit against most enemies and with S6 to punch through most armour they really are a threat to almost everything.

So how do you deal with WLs, do you just rely on weight of shooting, send magic missiles their way, tarpit them or just try to out muscle them..?
Share your tactics for beating these powerful elves... or if you play HE how have people stopped your WL from dominating the field?

As always, heresy needs you...


----------



## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

I find that it's easiest just to engage them with masses of infantry. They can provide troubles for other elite armies, but against hordes, they're screwed. Probably the best Dark Elf unit I can think to counter them is Witch Elves.


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

White lions are good.

Black guard are better.


----------



## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

With my VC's, I'll usually try and drown them under a unit of sword&board skellies! S6 isn't needed to get through my armour, and I still have a token ward save against their attacks.
Throwing ASF onto the unit at least gets rid of their re-rolls too.

Spirit hosts & wraiths are excellent too since they're ethereal and thus, only a character and/or the amulet of light will worry them. Best of all, both units are skirmishers too, so even if the WL's are hiding in a forest, it's benifits aren't hurting my stuff!

As for other armies;
a) spells that inflict toughness tests or sap their strength work wonders. (shadow magic can do evil things to elves!:spiteful
Skaven are ace at this, as the elves don't have alot of answers for their plague furnaces, which can inflict 2x toughness tests on them, and then add impact hits for the insult to injury...

b) core infantry. Anything cheap and numerous will murder WL's as their save is only 4+ IIRC in combat. Units like ghouls, corsairs, MoK marauders, dryads, etc... are solid choices as they also have additional attacks as well.

Cheers!


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

As a Chaos Trolls player, I have I1, so ASF isn't that much of an issue, and a reroll just means I have more opportunity for Mutant Regen to benefit.

On the flip side, I'm S5, and have Regen with no armour reliance, and 3 wounds apiece before losing any attacking capability. They do tend to suffer against Fire Standard though.

Also, Galrauch is decent against them - 2D6 Toughness Tests, or 4D6 Breath Weapons, of which the S2 one isn't as weak, whereas the S4 one wounds on 3's. With the reduction in number of Bolt Throwers taken by them, and the capability of L9 Stubborn, 6 wounds with a 3+/3++, there's also not that much in an Elven Army that is much of a threat when he's also 5+ to cast spells on the relatively easy Lore of Tzeentch.

He can nix characters as well if they're stupid enough to challenge him - 2D6 Toughness Tests smashes anything as it's rare any T4 or lower character will pass 7+ Tests.


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Oh, it's not much of an answer, but Ethereal creatures do well against White lions. Unless he's a bastard and takes the amulet of light on the unit champion. Although, that's usually saved for the Phoenix guard.

Anything with some high str impact hits will be a winner here as well. Elves are quite weak, so some str 5 impact hits will really ruin their day. I'm looking at the Black coach specifically here. As it can gobble up Magic dice from the High elf player (and the controlling player mind you) and end up some flying nightmare.


----------



## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Orochi said:


> Anything with some high str impact hits will be a winner here as well. Elves are quite weak, so some str 5 impact hits will really ruin their day.


*shudders at the thought of what the new tomb king chariot units will inflict*:shok:

even the bare minimum 3D6 S4 hits will hurt like hell...
Anything that gets impact hits works wonders against WL's, and generally all HE infantry bar those annoying PG!

Looks like the new tomb kings just joined the skaven as the most reliable elf-killers to be had!

Cheers!


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Yeh, IF however, TK can get around the high elf ASF. Aside from chariots, I don;t think there will be much for the WLs to fear from the tomb king army. 

And if all else fails, teclis will sort it all out.


----------



## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah, ethereals work, until the HE player decides to put the cheap-as amulet of light onto the champion/smacks the unit with a light amulet swordmaster unit...which I've always done in my HE army...

Personally, these have always been one unit my Lizards have struggled with. Basically, I have to keep flesh to stone and throne of vines going, or else I'm screwed. Although bogging them down with kroxiskinks might work...


----------



## Gileneas (Oct 2, 2011)

Masked Jackal said:


> I find that it's easiest just to engage them with masses of infantry. They can provide troubles for other elite armies, but against hordes, they're screwed. Probably the best Dark Elf unit I can think to counter them is Witch Elves.


I played someone this past Saturday who was using White Lions... but it was a horde of them so even if I had been able to get a horde to fight them, they didn't lose in a numbers fight and still hurt like hell.


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Orochi said:


> Yeh, IF however, TK can get around the high elf ASF. Aside from chariots, I don;t think there will be much for the WLs to fear from the tomb king army.
> 
> And if all else fails, teclis will sort it all out.


Settra + Warsphinx. As the Warsphinx is not a mount until you put a Tomb King on it, it benefits from his WS7 My will be done aura - WS7 Thundercrush could put a bit of pain on White Lions, especially as it's 6's to wound.


----------



## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

Gileneas said:


> I played someone this past Saturday who was using White Lions... but it was a horde of them so even if I had been able to get a horde to fight them, they didn't lose in a numbers fight and still hurt like hell.



I've seen this a few times now.
With the acursed Speed of Absurdyan (see what I did there?) this horde is a lot of pain and has some very nice surviabiltiy vs shooting, pit, dwellers, sun.

I'm not sure that I have anything in the beastman army that can really handle it to be honest.

My intial reaction is to stuff an ungor herd 8x5 in their face and hope I can turn the battle around them till then.

Possibly the vaunted 1+as/re-roll doombull on them, but even then, they're getting too many attacks for me to shove that beast at them...unless it's in the flank.

and the person running this would never let you get the flank that easy.


----------



## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

With my dwarfs its just organ guns and thunderer's all day. str 4 AP and str 5 ap don't leave much armour to play with, and wounding on 2's and 3's just lets me wreck them.

Though this is generally my response to everything.


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

My all Pestilens Skaven don't really have a problem vs White Lions. I find that a Plague Furnace in a decent sized horde (10*6 including furnace minimum) or using plague on a horde of White Lions is deadly (Killing half on average) or even Skrolk's Liber Bubonicus does serious damage on them, especially if my opponenet overlooks the ability of Whither.


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Making the assumption that the HE player will let you cast Plague in the first place of course?


----------



## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

2 Steam tanks do the job for me, as long as they dont get purpled / pitted before hand.


----------



## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Orochi said:


> Making the assumption that the HE player will let you cast Plague in the first place of course?


Assuming you didn't automatically lose turn 1 of course. Or that you could even make it to the game and don't forfeit by default. Of Course.


----------



## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

Horde of GW wielding LB's, generally beats everything.


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Orochi said:


> Making the assumption that the HE player will let you cast Plague in the first place of course?


No really making assumption. Hence why I used several different modes to attack the White Lions with.

Does not rely on first turn either. As an aside did I not mention to slap the Plague Banner on said unit. Really makes a difference for frenzied stuff.


----------



## Tatsumaki (Oct 22, 2009)

To be honest I prefer not to fight them so much as hold them up behind a wall.

Slaan with Ethereal and Stubborn, Oldblood with Armour of Fortune, Dawn Stone and Crown of Command, Dark Elf with Pendant of Khaeleth and Crown of Command, all of these are priceless choices in terms of holding up a strong enemy like White Lions. Oh you can probably turn them of Arachnarok and Steam Tank too, if you need to.


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

A hoard of WL is massively expensive and will rarely have much in the way of flank protection (mostly through so many points going into the WL block). Just lure them in, fleeing their charge and set them up for multiple flank charges.

I think beastmen should be best for this: a unit of 25 gors in the flank of WLs is going to hurt. The WL will likely be down to 4 attacks, then you hit them back with 15-16. You should more or less equal their kills but win from extra ranks, charge and flank. This gives you a chance they'll run from combat...
.... and if you manage to get both flanks at once then the WL can't reform and are stuck getting killed slowly: a buff or 2 (wyssan's is a local fav of beastmen) or passing primal fury will up the old damage rate nicely too.

Almost any hoard style army can do this easily enough: just get cheap ranked up things in both flanks (or flank and rear). With so few HE units it isn't that hard to do either: this is the sort of tactic I used to have to use with my ogres back in the old rule (and I didn't have the ranks to help me out).


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

You have to remember... A PG costs the same as a WL. Both in money and points.

I sincerely hope no-one would run a WL horde over a PG horde


----------

