# What Can Tactical Squads have? (Weapons Wise) Please Help!



## cameron94 (Jul 21, 2008)

Hi,
I bought a kit and it has a tactical squad of Space Marines, right. And I was wondering if you could use all the weapons that came with it? I know this is a stupid question, but I have never seen a tactical squad like that.

Eg. 1 Space Marine with melta gun.
1 Space Marine with those bigger flamers.
Etc. Etc.

So, I guess I want to is weapons can my tactical squad have. And can you please list all the weapons they can have and cant have because I want to assemble them soon. 

Kind regards,
Cameron94


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

Tactical squads can have 1 heavy weapon, and 1 special. I would say start getting used to taking 10 man squads now.

Another suggestion, buy a codex. .


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## cameron94 (Jul 21, 2008)

Oh, okay.
What is the best weapons to have in the squad??


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

cameron94 said:


> Oh, okay.
> What is the best weapons to have in the squad??


there is no best weapon in general there are weapons beter for certain jobs than other like a lascannon would be wasted against a horde army you wouldn't take a heavy bolter to a tank fightyou would use a flamer if your army is tailerd for shooting.


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## PieMan (May 1, 2008)

depends what role you want them for

anti tank-rocket launchers, melta weapons, lascannons

anti infantry-heavy bolters, plasma weapons

assault-flamers


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Moved to tactics.


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## coldstuff64 (Feb 11, 2008)

The best combination for taking out infantry would be to have 10 marines, one with a flamer and one with a heavy bolter. The bolter could also be used to attack lightly armored vehicles.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

There are a couple of threads here and here that deal with theory of the tactical squad.

In essense, the point is 'decide what it's for, then equip it to do that job'.

Lord Sinkoran and PieMan are absolutely right - "best" just begs the question "best for what?" as different tasks require different tools.

:hoping some of this helps cyclops:


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## phatmatt1991 (Aug 11, 2008)

I find that you should equip them for the battle in hand, however if you want an all over tactical squad i suggest:
1 Sergeant bolt pistol combat weapon
7 bolters
1 flamer, nothing better for frying nearby infantry
1 rocket launcher
frag and krak grenades
good against most foes with its range of fire power but requires support against powerful foes.


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

Yeah just wait 'till October! There will be Bolt Pistols, Bolters, Frag and Krak Grenades as standard! Oh Yeeeaaaah! Woo!:crazy:


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## titan136 (Jun 6, 2008)

> Yeah just wait 'till October! There will be Bolt Pistols, Bolters, Frag and Krak Grenades as standard! Oh Yeeeaaaah! Woo!


Well their costs are still built into the squad, its not like you get them for free. there are times when i'd rather not have those options standard.

@ the OP: The beauty of combat squads is that you don't have to arm the entire squad for the same role. You can pop half a squad with a powerfist and meltagun into a rhino and go tank hunting and leave the other half in the back field with a lascannon and snipe tanks. But as some other posters have already mentioned, there is no BEST combination. Arm them for what you think you'll be facing and you'll do fine


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

From what I've deducted, they'll only cost 17 points each, so that's a free Bolt Pistol and Frag Grenade at least.
How'd I work it out? In the new Rulebook, the guy playing against Eldar is using the 5th Ed. Codex. That's why his Predator only costs 85 points. All of his squads were 10 men, so he'd get a Missile Launcher and Flamer for free. His standard squads have this combination, and only cost 170 points each. Thus 170 divide by 10 equals 17 points each.


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## AnubisBlade (Aug 5, 2008)

in my army i can combat squad (dark angels) so i take a laz cannon and 4 guys and stick em in the rino and leave em there so it is a LC 1 bolter and 2 storm bolters able to support in a good holding action (if tank dies so what 40 points to keep from taking armor saves for a few rounds is worth it to me) take the lead element of the squad and go a hunting with power sword plasma pistol and a grunt with a flamer (3 guys with bolters) durring last week's game 2 squads like this running together (placing rinos back doors together and placing a whirlwind behind them hidden by the tanks) and the assaulting side did 33 wounds before an assault against necrons. (yes most of those wounds were on swarms ... 10 bases taken out in 1 shooting faze)


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## cameron94 (Jul 21, 2008)

I have three tactical squads and have one that I have not put together.

I have a melta gun, plamsa gun, combi plasma, flamer and rocket luncher. What weapons would be the best for one squad for the perpose of close combat?


What weapons would be the best for one squad for the perpose of destoying tanks?

What weapons would be the best for one squad for the propose of kill men?

Thanks,
cameron94


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

CC would be flamer and plasma gun. Flamer can hit multiple guys, plasma will own 1 or 2 depending on rolls.

Tank destroying would be melta and rocket launcher (combat squad, take the melta in one and the rocket launcher in the other) or melta and plasma as plasma can harm everything up to AV13 and destroy everything up to AV12

Men killing would be flamer and Plasma again, for average troops, plasma and melta for heavy troops.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

... except you can't have a flamer and a plasma gun in the same squad (unless there's a coming rule-change I've not picked up on).

Flamer, meltagun and plasmagun are all special weapons. Your missile launcher is a heavy weapon. Each squad can have one of each.

Flamer is best against horde armies (so close-combat and low-armoured humans, orks or tyrannids), plasma gun is also pretty good. Meltagun is also not bad, but for my money, plasmaguns are better against hordes.

Meltagun and plasmagun are both good against armour, either heavily-armoured troops (marines for instance) or vehicles. Flamers, not so good.

The missile launcher is good against either hordes or armour.

Basically, your plasmagun and missile launcher are the most versitile guns in the marine armoury; meltaguns, better for armour, flamers, better for troops.

So you need to think about the roles you give your squads. If there's a squad you know will be piling in to low-armoured troops, give them the flamer; if there's a squad you know you want to hunt tanks and heavy-armour troops, give them the meltagun and missile launcher; and if there's a squad you want to hang about and respond to threats, give them the plasmagun. That's what I'd do anyway (and get a few more heavy weapons; at least a Heavy Bolter - good anti troop - and either another missile launcher, or maybe a lascannon - better for anti-armour: then I'd move the ML that's already there to the plasmagun squad).

:hope all this helps...

:tactical cyclops:


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

your right, wasn't thinking. Been sick lately, not working quite right at the moment.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I'm sort of the black sheep on this subject, but I tend to favor tactical flexibilty in my squads so that a unit never gets caught with its pants down, so to speak. If I bring a meltagun in my special weapon slot, I tend to bring a heavy bolter in the heavy slot; if I bring a missile launcher in the heavy slot, I lean towards a flamethrower. While I rarely use plasma rifles, it's got nothing to do with their negligable danger to the firer-- I've just found that anything you can do with a plasma rifle, you can do at least as well, if not better, with a meltagun. The immediate reaction to reading that is probably, "But one weapon isn't being optimized that turn," which is a fair reaction, but oftentimes, there's not a viable target for the squad that takes advantage of its full range of abilities. I treat heavy weapons as a sort of nice "as needed" thing-- I don't rely on them in the slightest, and I don't think twice about moving a unit that contains a heavy weapon-- I have a very aggressive style which has served me well over the years. Ultimately, I've found the choice of special weapon more important in the grand scheme of things for a Tactical Squad than the heavy weapon.


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## GMMStudios (Apr 1, 2008)

Tac squads should be ten for the new codex and have Las and a flamer (although the latter can vary to taste).

Dev squads should be all HB or all missle. NEVER mix dev squads. NEVER put las there. I cringe when I see both....

The reasoning for the Las in tac is that each squad can split fire and its 15 vs. 35 pts in a dev squad. Why take four in one squad at 35 when you can take four in four squads at 15 and then roll the dice individually. Overkill is unwanted at that high of a points cost.

Missles are in Devs because they are cheap there, and are tactically flexible as a cohesive whole. There is a huge difference between a unit have two different weapons in it being "tactically flexible" and one have all the same weapon that does two things. Having two different heavies and specials in a unit, wether Dev or Tac, is a waste of points. A top notch player will always make sure there is a target for his weapons.

HB dev squads are just great, make the unit at about 7-8 with some ablative wounds and you have a unit that fires 12 st5 shots a round. The unit will not be feared, in fact probably ignored by a weaker player until it opens fire preferably on light infantry. 

Next week I am making a marine army, hopefully to fool around with before it sells, here is the list:

Jumpie Chap

10 Ass Marines PF 2xPP
10 Ass Marines PF 2xPP
10 Ass Marines PF 2xPP

Tac with Las Flamer PF
Tac with Las Flamer PF
Tac with Las Flamer PF
Tac with Las Flamer PF

8xDev with 4xHB
8xDev with 4xHB
8xDev with 4xML

Not sure the total points but I think its around 1750 and will be extremely solid at that number. The list takes advantage of the undercosted basic marine and spams the 3+ save.

Hope that helps!


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## cameron94 (Jul 21, 2008)

thanks guys for all you help, very appreciated! I am wiser now and yeah, I think I know more about weapons and what to do.

I have got a codex from a friend so I will "study" that. 

So basicly you are saying try to keep the weapon range roughly the same? I have given 2 of my 3 sarges of the tactical squads a power fist and a bolt pistol.

Can you make a list of weapons I should get/squads.




GMMStudios said:


> Tac squads should be ten for the new codex and have Las and a flamer (although the latter can vary to taste).
> 
> Dev squads should be all HB or all missle. NEVER mix dev squads. NEVER put las there. I cringe when I see both....
> 
> ...


Thanks mate, you are the first (I think) that have said anything about keeping a Dev squad with 4 of the same weapons.

I have a question though. What are the other weapons in your Dev squads? And do you have a sarge?


Thanks guys,
All of you have helped me greatly and would like more and more comments...


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## GMMStudios (Apr 1, 2008)

As for other weapons? Other than Bolters nothing. I dont really think a sarge is worth it. Fluffy of course so if you add one you may just do it for modeling sake. Just be sure to add a few ablative wound marines.

4 of the same weapons is just crucial. I never understand why people do otherwise.

Glad to help!

EDIT: Just caught this:



cameron94 said:


> So basicly you are saying try to keep the weapon range roughly the same? I have given 2 of my 3 sarges of the tactical squads a power fist and a bolt pistol.


Not so much the same range, but the same utility. I wouldnt, say, mix melta and las though. In honesty I would just do PF sarge and Las in every tac squad then if you have the points give them plasma or a flamer.


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

Im sorry, but I find that absolute bollocks. It means your devastators have little to no versatility, and if something comes at them that they can't handle, well, your screwed. I mean honestly, what is 4 lascannons going to do to a troops squad? Which is why I have a plasma cannon (would have two but dont have enough weapons, the other one is going to my tac squad) a missile and 2 lascannons. I figure that those three weapons, having similar range and STR values make a good mix, meaning the squad is able to tacke massed infantry (2 blast weapons), heavy infantry (high STR), and all vehicles (range of STR from 7-9, able to blow up anything). Ive sported the 'all the same weapon' devs before and honestly, they sucked. once id dealt with the unit they were designed to tackle, they became useless.


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## AnubisBlade (Aug 5, 2008)

in a Dark Angel list the devs can combat squad so i got 2 laz 2 plasma cannons and split em up so it is 2 and 2 on the heavies and stick the sgt with plasma pistol in with the 2 p cannons try and get a good covering position so they can survive better and go for it (against armored colom or heavy molith armies i take 4 laz and hide em 2 and 2 so i don't overload laz shots on 1 tank 2 is usually enough to kill 1 so 1 dev squad 1/2 is able to take out 1 tank compaired to other marines i can kill 2 tanks with the same dev full squad rather than 1 tank with 4 laz wasting 1 to 3 of the shots)


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

I never thought of that!

Thanks for the idea. Now, just to scrape 75 points from somewhere!


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## Firewolf (Jan 22, 2007)

Ordo Xeno Commander said:


> Im sorry, but I find that absolute bollocks. It means your devastators have little to no versatility, and if something comes at them that they can't handle, well, your screwed.
> 
> >> I have to agree whole-heartidly wi you here OXC. I run my Long Fangs wi 2 hbs, 1 las and a missile launcher, and I never seem to have problems wi any unit Im faced wi. I dont see how people can run 4 las squads, seems pointless to me. Only unit I reckon would be worth it, would be 4 missiles.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Combat squads are coming for all marines (except Space Wolves and Black Templars) in a month; it's the Dark Angels and Blood Angels players that have been using them the longest, so you should probably be getting their collective wisdom on the opportunities and problems of that. It does have (huge) a bearing on how you configure squads.

The 'classical' take on dev squads is 1 - somewhat complex; and 2 - soon to be obsolete; but here goes... While there are some people who are happy to mix weapons in dev squads (OXC and Firewolf being just two), most people tend to either run them 2-and-2, or 4-of-a-kind. Due to weapon ranges, the ability to be effective against certain targets but not others, and the high cost of heavy weapons in dev squads, the general theory is, keep them the same to increase efficiency.

I absolutely agree with Firewolf that 4 ML is a viable squad, because it is capable of taking out a wide variety of targets. As I think I said before, for my money the ML is the best marine heavy weapon because it's versitile. Other people run 2-lascannon, 2-plasmacannon squads for hunting heavy armour with a sideline in troops, 4-heavy bolter squads for horde-suppression, and such like. 

I don't, I think they're one-trick ponies and I'm not a good enough player to be able to effectively guarantee that my "armour-hunting" squad will be able to hunt armour all game. What if they have to fry a big hordey unit? What use my four multimeltas then? What if a Landraider or three drive straight towards my heavy bolter squad? Are they not then marine-flavoured jam?

So if you're confident you can dictate the terms of the game, it might be worth mono-tasking dev squads. Otherwise, I'd give them MLs and get them to blow away anything they can see.

But, as AnubisBlade has pointed out, combat squads require a rethink of how we work this... over to DA/BA players maybe...

:looking at the numbers cyclops:


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## GMMStudios (Apr 1, 2008)

Ordo Xeno Commander said:


> Im sorry, but I find that absolute bollocks. It means your devastators have little to no versatility, and if something comes at them that they can't handle, well, your screwed. I mean honestly, what is 4 lascannons going to do to a troops squad? Which is why I have a plasma cannon (would have two but dont have enough weapons, the other one is going to my tac squad) a missile and 2 lascannons. I figure that those three weapons, having similar range and STR values make a good mix, meaning the squad is able to tacke massed infantry (2 blast weapons), heavy infantry (high STR), and all vehicles (range of STR from 7-9, able to blow up anything). Ive sported the 'all the same weapon' devs before and honestly, they sucked. once id dealt with the unit they were designed to tackle, they became useless.


1. If you are finding yourself with nothing to shoot at with a dev squad, its either late game and they did their job, made their points back and didnt give up a KP, or you deployed poorly.

2. Id rather specialize than take two las and two HBs and constantly be wasting two of the guns. Let one *unit* take one target and another *whole unit* take its target. If you deploy right they can cover each other, and you dont waste shots. Lets say a LR is coming your way with two, two las two HB squads. To get all four las shots at the LRs you have to waste all those HBs. My way you can fire all four las and then fire the HBs at another target. It works the same with missles as they cant even kill a LR anymore, at least not to the point of it being worth trying.

3. Las is waaay to expensive to put in dev squads. Why would you do that when you could play it like my sample list and pay 15 points each for them vs. 35 AND roll for them indivually changing targets as you destroy them.

My .02


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## AnubisBlade (Aug 5, 2008)

Another thing to keep in mind with DA / BA is all marines have a bolt pistol so if ya are gonna get swarmed take the fight to them don't be afraid of gettin a laz cannon trooper into HtH if you can take the charge to them not shoot the 2 laz and hope ya get some kills. if ya can't justify the shot don't take it. plain and simple 5 bolt pistol shots and a 10 attack assault and ya should take care of any small units (in normal foot troop catagories banchies will still own ya) if not kill it off then lock ya for 1 turn in HtH so now ya can't get shot up and with good rolls ya can fight out in their assault phaze and be ready for shooting on your turn ... that or ya died. if ya died then ya either didn't see it comming or didn't support yourself well. in my case i go way mega expensive with 10 men 2 laz cannons 2 plasma cannons 1 plasma pistol and 1 razorback (YES A RAZOR) with h-bolts keep the tank with the ones ya gotta keep well defedned and let the tank worry about the troops commin at ya if worst case it can die in the way making a dangerous terain for them to cross to get to ya and btw this costs a whopping 370 points and counts as 3 KPs but gives me 5 heavy weapons and the ability to cover myself nicely if ya are afraid of troopies gettin in close then use twin linked laz on the razor with 1/2 (2 h-bolt) and other being (2 plasma cannons) this won't take out a this makes LR and mono think about who to kill first for if ya can get the big guys like that dead ya can now make mega dakka from h-bolts and great h-troop killer S7 AP2 s. blast lovin for the ones ya just gotta stop


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

i used the 4 las as an example more than anything, and with Combat Squads coming up, running 4 weapon dev squads isn't so great, and its far more viable to run multi-gun squads. and as a DA player ive taken that into account, and now im swapping things around so i can perform such a trick with 2 plas and 2 las


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## GMMStudios (Apr 1, 2008)

Well four las is the worst example short of multi meltas (which I dont think are EVER useful)

Actually because of points las might still be the worst.

And with combat squads coming its just going to make us use our Dev sqauds more frugally (which means specializing so no wasted shots)


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

exactly 

Im already combat squadding mine. :biggrin:


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## cameron94 (Jul 21, 2008)

I have a sword, and I would like to put it of my space marines sarge. Is that allowed??

Thanks guys,
Cameron94


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Yes.

If he's a "normal" sergeant, he can have a "close combat weapon" (eg a sword, chainsword, axe, knife). If he's a Veteran Sergeant, he can have any of those or a power sword.

So whatever type of sword you have, it can be given to a sergeant.

:close-combat cyclops:


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## AnubisBlade (Aug 5, 2008)

only use of multi-melta i have ever found is keepin em in a rino and never shooting with em till the enemy tank is close enough then stay still in movement and let 2 MM's rip through the open top and ya got a 1 time wicked suprise for that tank bad side is once ya use this tactic it is gonna be mega hard to use it again on that same player (btw the dev squad would be like 10 marines sgt with melta bomb p-fist and plasma pistol 2 MM's and the rest with bolters)


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