# Tyranids! Prime and Friends or Swarmlord and Friends?



## jbarket (Mar 29, 2011)

Hey guys,

After a lifetime of playing marines, I recently switched to Tyranids. I wanted to play an elite army that wasn't all terminators, and running a bunch of T6 creatures sounded like fun.

My list has been tweaked and become a bit more competitive since then, but I'm not sure if I'm really efficient yet.

I ran this list this weekend:

The Swarmlord 
3x Tyrant Guard Brood w/ Lash Whip and Rending Claws

2x Hive Guard Brood

Tervigon w/ Adrenal Glands, Toxic Sacs
17 Termagants

Tervigon w/ Adrenal Glands, Toxic Sacs
16 Termagants

Trygon Prime w/ Adrenal Glands 
Trygon Prime w/ Adrenal Glands 
Trygon Prime w/ Adrenal Glands

The first game I played was against a great mixed wing Dark Angels player. After the FAQ, they're back to being pretty rough. It was a 3 objective game, and I was unable to force a tie in the last round because I couldn't push his Venerable Dreadnaught off of an objective. I realized I deployed very poorly, so we played again.

Game two against the same player for annihilation, and I rolled him. He killed a Trygon Prime immediately after Deathwing Assaulting in, but I was able to respond and kill all of his bikes and mow through the terminators almost immediately. Great success.

Game three was against a Grey Knights list with the Ghost Knights guy, a plain jane Land Raider full of Paladins, a Dreadknight and a lot of other heavy hitters. 1 objective each. I played a less refined version of this list when my nids list was still really, really not points efficient, and I got destroyed.

This time it was a different story. The Swarmlord was able to one shot the Dreadknight, and soon after tear through the Paladins like they were 1W terminators. Better deployment meant it was incredibly difficult for him to get near my objective. Rolled through him no problem.

But here's my question. The Swarmlord was a huge success, especially with his buddies keeping my opponent striking at I1. However, they're a combined total of 475pt. Right now, I believe he's worth it because they're all T6, there's no leadership test to pass for his Bonesabres for instant death, and his other abilities can be useful.

However, at the end of the day, I'm basically using him as a way to one shot multiwound models. He's an IC / deathstar killer.

Would a Tyranid Prime with dual boneswords be a worse choice? I could literally take a full brood of Warriors with dual boneswords plus the Prime for fewer points. It'd be significantly more attacks (41 on the charge versus 17), and against anything less than S8 more wounds (30 versus 11). Against > S8, it'd be 12 wounds versus 11 with Warriors being instant killed.

I'd also have the ability to throw them across the board in a Spore. The Swarmlord is on foot with no real ability to gain cover except for hiding behind my Trygons.

What do you guys think? Am I overthinking efficiency by swapping out 4 serious T6 creatures for 9 T4/1 T5? What's working for you Nid players.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Well The prime doesn't always cause instant death or re roll those pesky saves but seriously boosts the warriors one thing though the prime and the warriors can't go in the same spore.


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## jbarket (Mar 29, 2011)

He's an IC. Why not? I assumed it was just like an IC and marines in a Drop Pod.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

they faq'd it. one of the unfathomable choices they made in regards to nids.

wish i could give more than commentary. your play style is so different from mine, i am not sure where to start.


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## jbarket (Mar 29, 2011)

Last time I read through the FAQ, I really just skimmed for things that affected me. Time to review that whole thing.

That is really pretty incredible.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

it hurt. nids are still competitive, but you have to play a lot smarter than some of the other armies out there to do it.

my personal favoite is the prime taking a wound if it is part of a thermagant group and a tervigon dies next to them. 

or maybe it is shadow of the warp not working on transport psychers..... 

or you can't choose to send a snotpod down empty.....

*takes hold of self* :ireful2:

it is worth getting to know that FAQ. :victory:

If you are going to stick with that nidzilla list (and i am thinking of trying one in the future because i haven't run one since 4th edition) have you thought about getting the prime and attaching the prime to the swarmlord? Extra intimidation value. :wink:


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## jbarket (Mar 29, 2011)

Read it front to back after your post. Ironically, I made three spores this afternoon. Now, I'm starting to doubt the need, haha. They are nowhere near as versatile as drop pods after that stupid FAQ.

As far as taking them together is concerned, the issue is points. This is the biggest problem with a Nidzilla-esque list. T6 creatures are expensive. Trygon is worth the points because, if he gets in assault, they're dead, or at least sucking major wounds.

This is why I'm hung up on this in the first place. My list could really benefit from a Stealer alpha strike or some Zoeys in a pod, but the most expensive parts of the list (Swarmlord and Trygons) are where I'm taking my opponents to task.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

You could just take another tervigon as an hq. That would give you another T6 6 wounds and free 280 pts to get in some stealers and/or zoanthropes.

edit 2 zoeys/pod = 160 + 8 genestealers is just under 120.


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

In terms of close combat utility i've found that trygons and tyrants (including the swarmlord) don't even come close to an equivalent points cost in stealers. Thats before you consider that infiltrate is awesome for them and they also score. More complete thoughts here:

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=67946&page=8

The t6 MCs just don't scare equivalent points costs in good cc units. Everyone* craps it when 20 stealers charge in.

*except landraiders, liths and some walkers.


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## DeathsShadow (Oct 12, 2010)

ok for me the swarmlord and his tyrant guard are worth everypoint that gets spent on them but only in large games (i used it in a 1500 point game and it was a very hard fight). i usual use a prime just to fill in the hq slot so my tervigon as a troop. the swarmlord has done more than its duty in every game of mine only being killed once(stupid force weapons). the good thing that you have with your list is that your swarmlord isnt a lone MC and your enemy is likely to target other things before wyour swarmlord.


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## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

If you're committed to the Swarmlord deathstar, I'd consider dropping Prime from two of the trygons. Why? You can do a lot of things with those 80-100 points (playing with gant numbers as well)

Get the third Hive Guard. And/Or add Catalyst to your Tervigons, or even Onslaught on one might not be a bad idea to get the most out of the Swarmlord. Another unit of gants could come in handy and still benefit from the Tervigon buffs if you run them close. You're pretty good on synapse and will still have one Prime, so the others may very well stay in range regardless. 

Or to second Oddjob, drop one Trygon entirely and do all of the above and get yourself a nice unit of stealers or ymgarls. They'll really help wreak havoc while you scurry the big guys across the board. 

You're on the right track though and some tweaks will help you get the most out of the list.


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## Yousei (Nov 4, 2009)

jbarket said:


> Would a Tyranid Prime with dual boneswords be a worse choice? I could literally take a full brood of Warriors with dual boneswords plus the Prime for fewer points. It'd be significantly more attacks (41 on the charge versus 17), and against anything less than S8 more wounds (30 versus 11). Against > S8, it'd be 12 wounds versus 11 with Warriors being instant killed.


Interesting question - i tend to find the swarmlord dies horribly quickly to shooting, but i've not tried him in quite this configuration before.
With your setup? No. The warriors would just get templated to death too fast to make it worthwhile. The lesser T makes them significantly more vulnerable than the rest of the force, and you're not really gaining enough added mobility to make it work. Now, if pods worked properly, sure.

That said, i reckon you're spending too much on this to make the swarmlord a viable choice without much flexibility. Losing a Guard and replacing it with a Prime would be a decent option - if you need to, you can detach the prime to go deal with some other problem thats come up. Net wounds on the unit remain more or less the same so survivability is unchanged, and you werent using that HQ slot for anything else. Probably a twin bonesword+ regen or tox sacs setup.

A better option that your proposed warriors would be swapping out the whole HQ slot for a Prime+2-3 squads of 8 toxin stealers. Lot more KP's on the board, but thats also a lot more flexibility in what you're doing with them. Prime can babysit/shelter with the hiveguard initially, then go hunting.


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