# Scars - New serialized HH novel in twelve parts



## Brother Lucian

http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/BL-HH-Scars

Ok, this was unexpected for sure. Though I think Im personally going to wait till all parts is out at once. Getting too much of a hassle to buy digital mondays stuff weekly, and now this every wednesday. Id rather buy it in a bigger batch.


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## tabbytomo

I Agree, I'd even prefer them to bang them in a HH collection novel...


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## Doelago

So 36€ for one ebook? Go fuck yourselves. Now they are just milking the series for the sake of it.


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## March of Time

Doelago said:


> So 36€ for one ebook? Go fuck yourselves. Now they are just milking the series for the sake of it.


You should move to the UK it would only cost you 21€ for all 12 episodes :grin:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

So these 12 "episodes" will make-up the entire _Scars_ novel?


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## Loli

It's an interesting approach to a release I'll give them that. But I'll just wait for a full version and I imagine I'm not alone in this.


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## Sequere_me_in_Tenebras

I believe BL's plan is to release this into monthly serialised chapters - then release the whole book as a full novel.


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## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Think I will wait too. Also waiting for the soft back of Vulkan lives too.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

I'm really tempted to start on these Ebooks, but if it's good I'll get annoyed that I have to wait another week for the next part!


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## Brother Lucian

Sequere_me_in_Tenebras said:


> I believe BL's plan is to release this into monthly serialised chapters - then release the whole book as a full novel.


They would release a new episode every wednesday, so it would take 3 months roughly for the full book to be out.


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## Djinn24

The other Founding Fields reviewers are really enjoying the first part so far.


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## MontytheMighty

I wouldn't mind a serialised novel but the price for one installment is ridiculous....

They better release the complete novel at some point

EDIT: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scars-Horus-Heresy-Chris-Wraight/dp/1849706042/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375728772&sr=1-1

Amazon UK indicates that the complete novel will be released in paperback in May 2014. That probably means hardback will likely be released in Feb. 2014. 

Some spoilers of the first episode courtesy of another forum: 




> the two khans from Brotherhood of the Storm, the Terran Torghun and the Chogorian Shiban. Definitely setting up a Horus/Emperor split, with Torghun idolising the Luna Wolves. Lots of meditation on the nature of the legion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something particularly interesting is brought up here: legions and ethnicity. Can't say I've seen it pop up much in the books so far but it's definitely been speculated on around here. Torghun is from 'Skandmark' on Terra - so presumably he's Scandinavian - and notes that many of the other recruits destined for the White Scars were from the 'Asiatic hive clusters'. He disapproves of the legion remaining 'mired in the physiognomic traits of their backwater world'.


 I must say, I really like the direction Wraight is taking with the internal conflict and the still somewhat tribal mentality of the legion


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## Jacobite

6 AUD per ebook and there is 12 instalments? So what's that? 6 x 12 = 72 AUD which at current exchange rates = 82 NZD... for an ebook?

So I figured out what the Khan is saying in the cover artwork guys... Two options:

1) He's laughing at any chump down under who is willing to buy this over priced shite
2) He's screaming "FUCK YOU!" to the accounts department on the basis that he wants his story to be told but it won't because of their love for attempting to bend over the Aussies and Kiwis and get every last possible dollar they think they can outa them. 

(In comparison 1.50 GBP is equalling a little under 3 NZD at the moment so that's 36 NZD total).

I thought ebooks were supposed to be a more affordable and accessible form of literary distribution due to lower overheads and distribution costs. Guess I was wrong about that then wasn't I?

Djinn24 and I were talking about this in TWG chat and he made the comment that they might be attempting to do what Stephen King did with "The Dark Tower" with this type of release. Well I'm sorry, I'm not an expert on Chris Wraight and I don't mean anything personal by this, but I don't think he's Stephen god dam King! Now I understand historically a lot of sci-fi and Fantasy was released like this: in serials, now if GW/BL wants to go back to the good old days I humbly suggest they start somewhere else in their business model.


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## MontytheMighty

Serialisation is great and Wraight is a fine authour...what's fu**ed up is the absurd price. 36USD for an ebook novel, really?!

A reasonable price would be $1 for an installment (that way you're still paying $12 for an ebook). I paid $8 for the complete ebook of Fear to Tread. I understand the series is getting more popular and I'm willing to pay more ($10 to $15) but not that much more...never $36 for an ebook.


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## Jacobite

Popular means the justification in a price rise? For an ebook? If it's so popular it'll cause the BL server to crash sure but otherwise I fail to see the logic in that.


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## MontytheMighty

Jacobite said:


> Popular means the justification in a price rise? For an ebook? If it's so popular it'll cause the BL server to crash sure but otherwise I fail to see the logic in that.


Greater popularity as in greater demand. BL can make more profit selling at a higher price if demand for their products rises by enough. I'm not talking about ethical justifications, only economic ones. 

Thing is...I doubt BL will be making more profit with $3 installments than with $2 or maybe even $1 installments, but maybe they have business data suggesting otherwise. If no one is willing to pay $3 per installment, BL might consider lowering the price in the future


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## Squire

I can see the appeal of finishing one part of a book and then waiting for the next part a few days later (anticipation is often half the enjoyment) but having to buy a book 12 times seems like a massive pain in the arse


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## Jacobite

MontytheMighty said:


> Greater popularity as in greater demand. BL can make more profit selling at a higher price if demand for their products rises by enough. I'm not talking about ethical justifications, only economic ones.


I understand the basics of it however we aren't dealing with a physical product here where are dealing with data. Linking price to demand has always been in relation to supply and cost. Now BL are always going to being selling this at a price point where they make a profit on it after selling X amount of units and they know they will make that target, so that takes care of cost. There is a realistically an nigh on unlimited supply of that ebook available. They don't have to print, bind, package, ship or stock any physical product. In relation to the digital product there is very little cost to it as they all ready have those system's in place. The only thing that could conceivably cause supply to stop is a full server crash and if BL are pinning their hopes on upgrading their servers on this one ebook then I really question their overall business plan. 

"BL can make more profit selling at a lower price if demand for their products rises by enough." - is just as true a statement, they lower the price more people might be inclined to buy it.


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## MontytheMighty

Jacobite said:


> "BL can make more profit selling at a lower price if demand for their products rises by enough." - is just as true a statement, they lower the price more people might be inclined to buy it.


It sounds like you're talking about movement along the demand curve (i.e. selling more units at a lower price vs. selling fewer units at a higher price). However, once "demand increases" (i.e. when the whole demand curve shifts to the right), it's possible for consumers to buy more units at a higher price because graphically, the new demand curve is now "outside" the old one. 

I don't want to get into all the graphs, but in the real world, it's rare for a company to lower the price of a product if demand for that product skyrockets. The company will usually maximise profit by selling at a higher price. However, the company might misjudge and raise the price by too much. 

There's no denying that the popularity of the Horus Heresy has grown over the past few years. Does it justify selling 1/12 of a novel for $3 ($36 for one novel)? I don't think so. I think in this case, BL would probably make more profit by lowering the price (which would trigger movement along the new demand curve). Maybe $1.5 or $2, which I think they can get away with now. 5 years ago, I think 1/12 of a novel would've been selling for less than $1.


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## Sequere_me_in_Tenebras

Brother Lucian said:


> They would release a new episode every wednesday, so it would take 3 months roughly for the full book to be out.


Every Wednesday, it'll be like Christmas... without the wrapping and unwanted presents.


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## Stephen74

I thought, good idea, and bought part 1 before realising what a bloody typical GW shaft you for your money con this is. 

I initially thought 10 episodes for some reason, so £15 for a book, but its twelve, so £18 for a book. SOD OFF.


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## Stephen74

Jacobite said:


> 6 AUD per ebook and there is 12 instalments? So what's that? 6 x 12 = 72 AUD which at current exchange rates = 82 NZD... for an ebook?
> 
> 
> I thought ebooks were supposed to be a more affordable and accessible form of literary distribution due to lower overheads and distribution costs. Guess I was wrong about that then wasn't I?


:shok: That really is taking the piss. I can understand why a product would cost more in far away places because of transport costs getting things there but this is a sodding e-book. It should be the same price where ever you go (with small variations due to local taxation)


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## MontytheMighty

$3 per installment is quite absurd really. I think BL might make more money by selling these installments at a more reasonable price. 

BL probably thinks that a White Scars HH novel only appeals to a niche market (desperate White Scars fans who will pay anything to read such a novel). I can't agree with BL's approach.


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## sadLor

Ok, I had a really long bus ride so I said 'screw it' and bought the first episode so I would have something to read.

I'm not going to say if it was worth it or not...everyone has different amounts of money they can spend.

However, I would say that Ep 1 is good in that there isn't a huge cliffhanger. There's actually a little story arc that finishes by the last page.

As for quality? Obviously, it's only the first 1/12th of the book but comparing this introduction to every other HH book... I'll put it in the top 5.

The author does something really unique here. It's written from perspectives that are fascinating to read. I'm honestly surprised other authors hadn't done it more. I haven't read a lot of stuff from CW before but it's very well-written and I enjoyed the prose. I just finished Angel Ex and the difference in writing style is...jarring to say the least.

Very minor spoilers (no names are used)



There are 2 stories told. 2 Astartes candidates and their training in becoming full-fledged Space Marines. Other HH novels had sort of touched on this but it's always been a quick flashback to when they were still human...and then they usually flashfoward decades later when they're veterans. Here, it shows the 2 going through the training, the weeding out of the weak, the genetherapy, etc. Fascinating stuff.

The 2 Astartes (1 terran born and trained and the other Chogoris born and trained) have very different stories to tell and the juxtaposition (and implications) of the 2 were riveting. I also enjoyed the portrayals of the White Scars. With 18 legions, it's hard to make them all stand out but the philosophy and attitude of the Scars really made them unique. This is especially obvious with how the prologue contrasts the 2 trainees. The terran born trainee goes through the Luna Wolves training camp which is described as very strict and regulated. Contrasted with the Scars which had a more jovial atmosphere. They are repeatedly described as poets...both in how their language developed and their philosophy on life.

Oh, apparently the Chogoris people are ethnically Asian (duh) but the Scars try to recruit mostly from the Asian-hive cities when they need recruits from Terra. I guess the author needed to explain why they all looked Asian. The terran-born trainee actually thinks this tradition is silly.


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## Stephen74

Even better - my kobo wont recognise Black Library as a safe site and I cant download the damn thing and I cant find my lead to connect to the pc - grrrr.


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## kwak76

For 12 installments at $2.99 a piece comes out to be $35.88 for the whole thing. A bit overprice for a e-book. 

I think I would of brought it for half the price which I think is allot more reasonable.


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## HamsterExAstris

MontytheMighty said:


> I think in this case, BL would probably make more profit by lowering the price (which would trigger movement along the new demand curve). Maybe $1.5 or $2, which I think they can get away with now. 5 years ago, I think 1/12 of a novel would've been selling for less than $1.


You also have to keep in mind the money Black Library loses to the credit card processor. If the person buys just the ebook and nothing else, BL gets about $0.65 of a $1 transaction. At $3, they keep more like $2.60.

As long as BL sells at least 25% as many copies at $3 as they would at $1, it's a wash ($2.60 profit either way). And if they sell more, BL comes out ahead of the game.


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## MontytheMighty

Check out the Forbes review: 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferbosier/2013/08/08/serialized-heresy-scars-episode-1-review/

Episode II advance review:
http://baddice.co.uk/hh14-scars-part-ii/


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## Sequere_me_in_Tenebras

MontytheMighty said:


> Check out the Forbes review:
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferbosier/2013/08/08/serialized-heresy-scars-episode-1-review/
> 
> Episode II advance review:
> http://baddice.co.uk/hh14-scars-part-i/


It seems from reviews that the opening chapters are looking good. Hopefully "Scars" will continue the same. 

That's the first time I've seen reviewers comment upon BL's digital pricing (in regards to this release). I personally don't buy digital, so have no clue what the 'going rate' is for a full novel. Even if I had a Kindle or iPad, I'd be waiting for the full novel given the full price of buying all 12 chapters. As one reviewer commented, it's a impulse buy. 

Do you think it's worth the X-amount of extra £ or $ to read this novel in advance?


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## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Nope. And that's why they keep bringing out the hardback a good month to two before the softback. They know people will snap it up because they can't wait.

I can


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## Doelago

Sequere_me_in_Tenebras said:


> Do you think it's worth the X-amount of extra £ or $ to read this novel in advance?


No. When you can get the Hardback AND paperback version for the same price as the ebook version its fucked.


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## Words_of_Truth

I'm enjoying it, really depends if you want to enjoy the ride and properly read each chapter or get the book (has it been confirmed the price of it yet or are you going off average?) later.


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## HamsterExAstris

Words_of_Truth said:


> I'm enjoying it, really depends if you want to enjoy the ride and properly read each chapter or get the book (has it been confirmed the price of it yet or are you going off average?) later.


Price of the trade paperback has been confirmed. Price of the hardcover and mass-market paperback haven't been yet.


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## The Scion of Chemos

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Nope. And that's why they keep bringing out the hardback a good month to two before the softback. They know people will snap it up because they can't wait.
> 
> I can


There are also people who prefer the hardback, such as myself. So there is more to that than just the impulse buy they are hoping for. 

Though I do think in this case, BL might be pushing the "getting it early = higher cost" thing.
I think $2.00-$2.50 is a little more reasonable.


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## Sequere_me_in_Tenebras

Doelago said:


> No. When you can get the Hardback AND paperback version for the same price as the ebook version its fucked.


Completely agree Doelago. I've no issue with serializing a novel, it's something different - however the final price is taking the piss out of fans of the HH series. It's a money drain, I understand that is what is a business is about... however for me, they should really refocus their efforts on pricing and perhaps make future releases more readily known (other than Amazon).


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## Words_of_Truth

It's got to the point for me where I've stopped thinking about the cash and just started enjoying the hobby and the books, that may sound selfish but the more I dwell on it the more it ruins it for me.


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## MontytheMighty

sadLor said:


> Oh, apparently the Chogoris people are ethnically Asian (duh) but the Scars try to recruit mostly from the Asian-hive cities when they need recruits from Terra. I guess the author needed to explain why they all looked Asian. The terran-born trainee actually thinks this tradition is silly.




Wait so...the White Scars still recruit Terrans after discovering Chogoris and Jaghtatai?


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## Chaplain-Grimaldus

I think its a case of use up who ever was left in the training system before they went exclusively Chogoris.


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## Words_of_Truth

MontytheMighty said:


> Wait so...the White Scars still recruit Terrans after discovering Chogoris and Jaghtatai?




They are forced to due to losses, the Terran who is recruited was ear marked by the Luna Wolves but came 26th in his class and unfortunately had to be reassigned to the White Scars


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## Paceyjg

BL will try it on to see if they can make extra cash. There are no going to be any extra overheads to do it this way so its an inexpensive gamble.

If no one buys it then they will drop the idea and get back to publishing books for more realistic prices.

Vote with your wallet and don't get sucked in :threaten:


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## MontytheMighty

Paceyjg said:


> Vote with your wallet and don't get sucked in :threaten:


This pretty much...don't let them get away with selling a novel for close to $36 

Not even a nice hardback. A serialised eBook :shok:


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## Stephen74

Well I finally got it downloaded and....

....only 27 pages. Is that right? 

People are saying they've enjoyed the first chapters, plural. Are there supposed to be more? what I read was ok but if thats all you are getting each week then even 12 parts isn't going to be sufficient for a whole book.


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## HamsterExAstris

Stephen74 said:


> Well I finally got it downloaded and....
> 
> ....only 27 pages. Is that right?
> 
> People are saying they've enjoyed the first chapters, plural. Are there supposed to be more? what I read was ok but if thats all you are getting each week then even 12 parts isn't going to be sufficient for a whole book.


Pages in an ebook don't necessarily correspond to pages in the print version (unless you got a PDF). The publisher can (but usually doesn't) mark where a "print page" starts; if they don't, then the reader will arbitrarily pick the page change every X characters.


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## MontytheMighty

Stephen74 said:


> ....only 27 pages. Is that right? what I read was ok but if thats all you are getting each week then even 12 parts isn't going to be sufficient for a whole book.


Assuming the average installment will be 27 pages long, 12 installments will add up to 324 pages. 324 eBook pages might equal a greater number of print pages. 

I don't think Black Library will be skimping on the page count. If they charge $3 per installment, the entire thing will cost $36. It seems like they're just charging a huge amount for an average length novel.


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## Words_of_Truth

Just read the next part, it's starting to heat up and is even linking short story _The Serpent Beneath_.


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## MontytheMighty

Words_of_Truth said:


> even linking short story _The Serpent Beneath_.




Is that the one in which Sheed Ranko apparently dies


Just found these reviews. The general consensus seems to be that Wraight's writing is very good but that the installments are still rather overpriced:
http://www.examiner.com/review/sowing-the-seeds-scars-episode-ii-review 

http://www.fiftyshadesofgeek.org/2/...hris-wraight-a-serial-review-by-ej.html#intro


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## Words_of_Truth

MontytheMighty said:


> Is that the one in which Sheed Ranko apparently dies
> 
> 
> Just found these reviews. The general consensus seems to be that Wraight's writing is very good but that the installments are still rather overpriced:
> http://www.examiner.com/review/sowing-the-seeds-scars-episode-ii-review
> 
> http://www.fiftyshadesofgeek.org/2/...hris-wraight-a-serial-review-by-ej.html#intro




Yeah, Shiban finds the White Scars they killed at the beginning of the story.


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## kwak76

Something is telling me that if the White scars installment series is profitable to GW. I think in the future they will do that to other books. It seems like there are enough people that are buying I think.


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## Anakwanar

Okay guys now i will give my thoughts about Scars - i have an ability to review this episodes from the point, that i was able to read earlier draft for 'this book' and limited edition novella 'Brotherhood of the Storms':

So here are the reasons, why i think that BL destroying an awesome novel.

1) I don't mind buying something interesting to read every week, but at my phone and notebook episode 2 has been only 15!!! :shok: pages long. Episode 1 - 20 pages. So right now its stands for 35 pages both in epub or mobi format. Which is much smaller, then any chapter, at any other previous Horus Heresy novel (and i have them all). 


If all other episodes will have same page count as this two, then it would be the shortest HH novel in the serie.
I don't think Black Library will be skimping on the page count. If they charge $3 per installment, the entire thing will cost $36. It seems like they're just charging a huge amount for lesser then an average length novel. 

2) Next problem based on the previous one. The story is rushed - due to the smaller page count. I was able to read nearly completed draft for first 2 chapters of the Scars earlier this year - and they were much better then this 2 episodes. 
They cut off at least 15 pages from first 2 chapters :search:Shiban Khan - at least 2 pages of text (his memories and much fuller thoughts about dead bodies) is missing; 
Targutai Yesugei Nikea part was 8 pages longer (his full dialog with Ahriman);:search:
Space Wolves fleet master and their unbelief of Horus betrayal - more vivid in at least 3 more pages :search:
Why have they done that - by doing that they destroyed a logic chain of events and structure of the novel?

Anyway - that's the first HH novel that feels rushed (like something is going too quick, missing something at every page).
That all was cut off from this episodes  I'm truly confused - does this mean - that hardback edition would be full, and we have ARC version here in this episodes? :shok:

3) Space shooty shooty would be coming in the nearest episodes :wink:, but now i'm worried about it - they could cut it off too.:threaten: Also with no Dramatis Personae at the front reader who haven't read Brotherhood of the Storms would be for a real treat to his memory.:ireful2: And yes - in the earlier draft first episode was a Prologue, and episode 2 is the first chapter. 

4) Episode stuff will continue anyway - it seems like there are enough people that are buying the episodes. For good or bad, we will see, but right now its more :angry:


Also i fully agree with Advanced review for episode 2 from Bellarius, - episode lacks a distinctive structure to make it feel like its own entity. Instead what we get feels more like fragments out of place. The reason for this - BL editor stuff cut off at least 15 pages from the normal, structured draft


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## Stephen74

Really disappointed now and if that's how books are going to be released in the future then sadly I won't be buying any such books. It's a little under a £1 a page at the moment.


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## MontytheMighty

Why would the final thing be so much shorter than the draft...it's an eBook so they wouldn't be saving paper. Sounds a bit odd


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## Words_of_Truth

Anakwanar said:


> Okay guys now i will give my thoughts about Scars - i have an ability to review this episodes from the point, that i was able to read earlier draft for 'this book' and limited edition novella 'Brotherhood of the Storms':
> 
> So here are the reasons, why i think that BL destroying an awesome novel.
> 
> 1) I don't mind buying something interesting to read every week, but at my phone and notebook episode 2 has been only 15!!! :shok: pages long. Episode 1 - 20 pages. So right now its stands for 35 pages both in epub or mobi format. Which is much smaller, then any chapter, at any other previous Horus Heresy novel (and i have them all).
> 
> 
> If all other episodes will have same page count as this two, then it would be the shortest HH novel in the serie.
> I don't think Black Library will be skimping on the page count. If they charge $3 per installment, the entire thing will cost $36. It seems like they're just charging a huge amount for lesser then an average length novel.
> 
> 2) Next problem based on the previous one. The story is rushed - due to the smaller page count. I was able to read nearly completed draft for first 2 chapters of the Scars earlier this year - and they were much better then this 2 episodes.
> They cut off at least 15 pages from first 2 chapters :search:Shiban Khan - at least 2 pages of text (his memories and much fuller thoughts about dead bodies) is missing;
> Targutai Yesugei Nikea part was 8 pages longer (his full dialog with Ahriman);:search:
> Space Wolves fleet master and their unbelief of Horus betrayal - more vivid in at least 3 more pages :search:
> Why have they done that - by doing that they destroyed a logic chain of events and structure of the novel?
> 
> Anyway - that's the first HH novel that feels rushed (like something is going too quick, missing something at every page).
> That all was cut off from this episodes  I'm truly confused - does this mean - that hardback edition would be full, and we have ARC version here in this episodes? :shok:
> 
> 3) Space shooty shooty would be coming in the nearest episodes :wink:, but now i'm worried about it - they could cut it off too.:threaten: Also with no Dramatis Personae at the front reader who haven't read Brotherhood of the Storms would be for a real treat to his memory.:ireful2: And yes - in the earlier draft first episode was a Prologue, and episode 2 is the first chapter.
> 
> 4) Episode stuff will continue anyway - it seems like there are enough people that are buying the episodes. For good or bad, we will see, but right now its more :angry:
> 
> 
> Also i fully agree with Advanced review for episode 2 from Bellarius, - episode lacks a distinctive structure to make it feel like its own entity. Instead what we get feels more like fragments out of place. The reason for this - BL editor stuff cut off at least 15 pages from the normal, structured draft


Got me worried now that they are doing this but you'd have to get the full book when it's released for additional detail.


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## HamsterExAstris

Anakwanar said:


> I'm truly confused - does this mean - that hardback edition would be full, and we have ARC version here in this episodes? :shok:


No - if it was an ARC, it would still be the full text. Otherwise it's not much of an Advanced Review Copy, if you can't review the whole thing.


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## mal310

This is not good at all. What ever way you cut it. If this serialised copy turns out to be an abridged version of the full novel then if i'd bought it (i haven't and won't) then i'd be absolutely livid. On the other hand if whole chunks of the novel have been cut out for no good reason i'll be livid too. This is a bit of a mess.

If it is abridged then i'm in little doubt that it would fall foul of the Trade Descriptions Act 1968. It would be little more than a con.

I have no problem at all with them releasing a novel in serialised parts but if its abridged and this has not been disclosed then i have a problem with that. Frankly its appaling.

Update: Black Library have confirmed its not abridged. Books will always go through edits but it sounds like some good stuff was cut unfortunately.


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## kwak76

I'm guessing that the reason why they cut down on the pages is cost. I'm not sure how they pay the writers but I heard that some writers get paid base upon pages they write. Unless there is a flat fee that they paid these writers.


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## MontytheMighty

...but it seems like these abrigements are rather detrimental to the overall story. I understand the need to cut costs, but how about the quality of the product? That affects profitability too


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## Stephen74

They are claiming on their facebook page that nothing has been changed at all.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Stephen74 said:


> They are claiming on their facebook page that nothing has been changed at all.


And I would be more inclined to believe them to be honest.


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## sadLor

Books get edited and trimmed down all the time. It doesn't mean the longer versions are always better. Hell, look at the director's cut/extended cut of most movies. The majority of them add filler scenes that only the most hardcore fans would enjoy.

After reading Episode 1 of Scars, I didn't think "Oh, there are missing scenes and they obviously cut stuff out." The only thing I thought was "Chris Wraight is one heck of a writer."


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## Anakwanar

My answers to some questions:

To [SD]Daenyathos


> You can get all 12 episode's in one file but only if you buy Scars: Subscriber's Edition from apples IBook store.


 


What? Where is this? Is it already on sale (full 12 episodes)? IBook store, really?:headbutt:

To shadowhawk2008:


> You are saying that you have read an early draft of the ENTIRE novel??


 
No i had read roughly 50-60 pages of earlier draft (equivalent to 3 chapters - as a matter of fact it was Prologue, Chapter 1 and Chapter 4 - that's why i'm complaining. Because earlier draft WAS BETTER then this edited episodes):ireful2:

To sadLor


> After reading Episode 1 of Scars, I didn't think "Oh, there are missing scenes and they obviously cut stuff out." The only thing I thought was "Chris Wraight is one heck of a writer."


That he is - that he is.:wink:

To DarkChaplain and Stephen74


> Episode 1, including the quote stuff in the intro, is slightly over 6500 words long. Episode 2, meanwhile, was written with 8375 words. What your little phone puts out in page numbers is not indicative of the actual length of the thing.





> They are claiming on their facebook page that nothing has been changed at all.





I haven't count the exact number of words, but if i remember correctly prologue was 9100 words and episode 2 - 11400 words, something like that. BL on their facebook page said that they haven't cut anything - THEY ARE LYING

In truth, the only thing i'm disappointed - is that PRE-EDITED STUFF was cooler then the one, which was released in this episodes. WHY DO THEY CUT A GOOD STUFF? Really I can't understand?
I don't think that they would be paying more money - if the novel was 50 pages longer?
Anyway, it would be the smallest HH novel to date. Because episode 1 is a prologue, episode 2 - chapter , so 12th episodes - ITS 11-12 chapters - IT'S THE SMALLEST HH NOVEL TO DATE. :shok:


----------



## Doelago

> You can get all 12 episode's in one file but only if you buy Scars: Subscriber's Edition from apples IBook store.


The iBooks Scars: Subscribers Edition is half the price of buying them individually. Quick, everyone, buy it before they notice that they have priced it incorrectly! :shok:


----------



## March of Time

Anakwanar said:


> My answers to some questions:
> 
> To [SD]Daenyathos
> 
> What? Where is this? Is it already on sale (full 12 episodes)? IBook store, really?:headbutt:


Only the first 2 episodes are in the Subsciber's edition at the moment,but it will be updated when each new episode is released.


----------



## MontytheMighty

Hopefully, what is cool exposition to Anakwanar is verbose baggage to us


----------



## Anakwanar

MontytheMighty
Monty if you want, i will stop critisizing anything, that deserves the critic and will write only about the facts - 1 month after their release. You would be happy with that?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Is anyone else having update issues with the Subscriber's Edition?


----------



## March of Time

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Is anyone else having update issues with the Subscriber's Edition?


There late with the update again :ireful2:.It only got updated with the episode 2 last Friday,and it didn't updated automatically.
You have to delete the Ebook and then down load it again.


----------



## MontytheMighty

Anakwanar said:


> MontytheMighty
> Monty if you want, i will stop critisizing anything, that deserves the critic and will write only about the facts - 1 month after their release. You would be happy with that?


I have nothing against your criticism. I just hope the stuff cut from the episodes isn't as good as I'm imagining


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

March of Time said:


> There late with the update again :ireful2:.It only got updated with the episode 2 last Friday,and it didn't updated automatically.
> You have to delete the Ebook and then down load it again.


Well that's incredibly frustrating.

I would have just stuck to the individual episodes if I'd known they're slack in updating the Subscriber's Edition.


----------



## Anakwanar

To MontytheMighty


> I just hope the stuff cut from the episodes isn't as good as I'm imagining


 You know, i really need to get my hands on episode 4 to verify that. Because earlier conflict between SW and AL fleets (which are going to happen - now, if you read episode 3) has 2 different drafts from Chris Wraight. That was the last thing i had read from his earlier draft. 
In variant 1 - it was awesome engagement (written much better, then for example Iron Hands and Emperor children void conflict with Diasporex in 'Fulgrim')
In variant 2 - it was skipped :ireful2: - it was shown 3 pages later, as a ship graveyard, then White Scars get where :angry: 
So episode 4 will be putting our fright's to rest, or will truly verify them to our dismay.
Also about the opinion for this format and that where definitely something was cut off from the Scars, you could read Bellarius review 
http://thefoundingfields.com/2013/0...s-wraight-advance-review-bellarius/#more-9771


----------



## mal310

Anakwanner, Laurie Goulding has stated the following about you and your recent allegations about the novel Scars. Do you have any reply to this? 

"The rumours about it being abridged are FALSE. No one outside of BL has been allowed to read this novel early, in any form, and I can state that as a categorical fact.

Even the other HH authors have not yet received the manuscript.

Those rumours (and yes, we were aware of them) are just the latest attempt by internet trolls to feel important.  

If anything, if this person had read an "early draft" then he would know that the book is actually LONGER in the final version. Pointless, sense-of-entitlement wishlisting - that's all it is.

(Also, eBooks don't have "pages". The files don't work like that.)"


----------



## Roninman

I will never support this kind of releasing. Its very expensive and i would atleast want to read in one go little more than just 20-30 pages. Hopefully this latest experiment of theirs wont succeed.

Im gonna vote with my wallet and its gonna be a NO.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

mal310 said:


> Anakwanner, Laurie Goulding has stated the following about you and your recent allegations about the novel Scars. Do you have any reply to this?
> 
> "The rumours about it being abridged are FALSE. No one outside of BL has been allowed to read this novel early, in any form, and I can state that as a categorical fact.
> 
> Even the other HH authors have not yet received the manuscript.
> 
> Those rumours (and yes, we were aware of them) are just the latest attempt by internet trolls to feel important.
> 
> If anything, if this person had read an "early draft" then he would know that the book is actually LONGER in the final version. Pointless, sense-of-entitlement wishlisting - that's all it is.
> 
> (Also, eBooks don't have "pages". The files don't work like that.)"


Lol, busted.

And by-the-way, I spoke to someone at BL earlier and he said that the reason for the Subscriber's Edition taking longer to update is because Apple have to independently verify the product before they release it. Pfft.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Haha. Proper busted.

I failed to resist and bought the first one to see what I thought. Then proceeded to get the second and read that too....

Guess I should buy the 3rd now!


----------



## Stephen74

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Haha. Proper busted.
> 
> I failed to resist and bought the first one to see what I thought. Then proceeded to get the second and read that too....
> 
> Guess I should buy the 3rd now!


I'm struggling to resist to be honest. I WANT to read them, but it's the principle. 
Had this been 6 releases at £1.50 with double the page count on each release I think they would have been on to something. 12 at 75p I could have lived with.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Yeah I get what you are saying and I agree the price is ridiculous. 

But I couldn't help it.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I've said elsewhere but I enjoy the weekly episodes, it's like watching your favourite tv show and itching for next weeks, like delayed gratification.


----------



## Anakwanar

To mal310
Ok, here we go 


> "The rumours about it being abridged are FALSE. No one outside of BL has been allowed to read this novel early, in any form, and I can state that as a categorical fact.'


 Yeah, you was hoping for another answer? That we delibaretely chop some interesting stuff, because it was to long to make it a serialised show? I haven't seen a manager or editor in my life - who will be telling you the truth in that situation. THIS NOVEL WASN'T PLANNED as a serial - it was planned as a normal HH novel release. But someone over where decided to make it the way it is now - and they coping with that.

Certainly, if you haven't noticed - i doesn't care what they think and i have no reason to lie, because there are no sense in 'whose penis are bigger ' competition. 


> Those rumours (and yes, we were aware of them) are just the latest attempt by internet trolls to feel important.


 



> (Also, eBooks don't have "pages". The files don't work like that.)"


I really want to see hardback and paperback edition of Scars to count the amount of pages. If it would be in the same page count (we do not count spaces - which they will do - i certain of it) as lets say Betrayer - i will eat my hat

To Roninman


> I will never support this kind of releasing. Its very expensive and i would atleast want to read in one go little more than just 20-30 pages. Hopefully this latest experiment of theirs wont succeed.


You will be disappointed for sure. As of now it's selling pretty well



> Yeah I get what you are saying and I agree the price is ridiculous.


 Yes, it is

Just forgot to mention about Laurie Goulding and management. He is a lovely fella - but on my question 8 months ago: 'So is the Mark of Calth really deserve my money' - the next was answered - 'This is the best Anthology, ever published by BL. Every story in it - is a jewel'
:laugh:


----------



## Doelago

mal310 said:


> Laurie Goulding has stated


Hahahahahaah. 



mal310 said:


> (Also, eBooks don't have "pages". The files don't work like that.)"


Try switching the font size slightly and BOOM, suddenly you have the very much correct page count to go along with the paper back version.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Episode III still hasn't been updated into the Subscriber's Edition... It takes Apple this long to verify a short few dozen pages!?


----------



## Stephen74

Well there is an easy way for people to prove whether they have or have not read the book - post a spoiler - tell us what is coming next and if they are right they can shove it in BL's face and we'll know BL is full of crap.


----------



## Anakwanar

Not a problem - Stephen74:
As i write earlier to Monty - 


> You know, i really need to get my hands on episode 4 to verify that. Because earlier conflict between SW and AL fleets (which are going to happen - now, if you read episode 3) has 2 different drafts from Chris Wraight. That was the last thing i had read from his earlier draft.
> In variant 1 - it was awesome engagement (written much better, then for example Iron Hands and Emperor children void conflict with Diasporex in 'Fulgrim')
> In variant 2 - it was skipped - it was shown 3 pages later, as a ship graveyard, then White Scars get where.
> So episode 4 will be putting our fright's to rest, or will truly verify them to our dismay.


Could estrapolite a little - 'Hranfkel' is badly mauled - half of the fleet are the hulks flying in the space. If the first variant was chosen for the serial format.
At what point, long ago, i has asked Chris about the reason - why he chosen as default that Wolfes fleet was badly mauled, because where was no fleet engagement over Prospero in the first place. He answered that he done that, because it was needed to create a bad options for Wolves fleet vs Alpha Legion. So we get some orbit weaponry launched at the SW fleet at Prospero, plus the Wolves on the way to Alaxxes system get themselfs into a big warp strom - and lost half a dozen ships. So that's why their fleet is strugling in episode 2. 'Fylskiare' would be mentioned later. 
Chris said that he planned a most ambicious destiny trip for Sickle Moon (the name was changed - to better transcribe what will happen to the ship. It's first name was Tip of the Destiny Spear. Chris also mentioned - that they already had so many latin names and Destinie's in WB fleet - so he has to plan something new)
Also the last earlier chapter i had read has a rubicon with Yesugei getting himself into a little warp storm trouble - where he gets some truly unexpected answers for some truly outstanding questions, from one of the most unexpected source :grin:
Ah almost forget - close friendship with Horus will get some awesome troubles on the Khan head in the middle of the book. 
Anyway, and it's my humble personal opinion - that this would be an awesome HH novel (definitely better then Vulkan ....., crap like Mark of Calth or Fear to Thread) - but the earlier (yes you all already told me that it's rare then early drafts gets themselves unedited) draft WAS BETTER, FULLER, HAD MORE STRUCTURAL LOGIC AND CONTINUINITY. So i do believe, that editorial stuff of BL done a bad job cutting an interesting stuff and making it less structure logical to read. Good job Laurie, good fething jood :threaten:
Ok thanks for your time, i gone to sleep :thank_you:


----------



## MontytheMighty

The review of Episode V is up

Detailed review of Episodes I - III


----------



## MontytheMighty

Review for Episode VI


----------



## Angel of Blood

How have you read it already?


----------



## Words_of_Truth

The Alpha Legion force wasn't smaller -



It had the same amount of ships, the only minor weakeness was that it appear they retrofitted bulk carriers to look like battle barges


----------



## Gree

So, should I spend my money on getting all the parts when they are inevitably collected together? How are the White Scars and the Alpha Legion portrayed?


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Alpha Legion hasn't said a word yet, White Scars have been more thoroughly developed from their appearance in _Brotherhood of the Storm_. A softer side of the Space Wolves has been shown, with their ability to deal with the knowledge of how they were suckered into attacking the Thousand Sons, and how that has further diminished their forces after being attacked by the Alpha Legion.


----------



## Lord of the Night

Words_of_Truth said:


> A softer side of the Space Wolves has been shown, with their ability to deal with the knowledge of how they were suckered into attacking the Thousand Sons.


I'm VERY interested in seeing these scenes for myself. I hated the Wolves in A Thousand Sons and i'd like to see how they deal with the knowledge they massacred innocent people and brothers falsely accused.


LotN


----------



## Angel of Blood

I'm reading it off a friend for now as I still refuse to buy an eBook for such an extortionate price. It is good though, as said, the Scars have really been given their own flavour and personality, whilst Russ and the Wolves seem quite melancholic after the events of Prospero. It's also finally showing how Bjorn got to become close with Russ, or at least brought into his inner circle, Something that had bothered me until now, seeing as he's meant to be by the time Russ leaves.


----------



## Anakwanar

The best episodes would be 11-12 - you would not gonna miss them:biggrin:


----------



## Angel of Blood

Spoilers for episode IX



So Revuel Arvida has turned up again, last seen fleeing from the World Eaters on Prospero. Assuming he leaves with the White Scars, this could seem him rejoining the Imperium perhaps. Malcador has recruited at least one Thousand Son to be part of his proto-Grey Knights, but his description didn't seem to match Arvidas.


----------



## Brother Lucian

Caved in and bought the current 9 episodes available. Need something new to read to pass time.


Finished them all. Im hungry for the last bunch now, a really engaging read for sure!


----------



## Brother Lucian

Scars X just became available.
http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/scars-episode-x-ebook.html


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Just read episode X.

It was very, very good.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Were you as dismayed as I was to learn..



That Halji, Ilyas White Scar guide of sorts, is a lodge member? For whatever reason I just like him, don't want to see him join the Warmasters Scars.


Where's Bjorn and Russ though?? Was looking forward to reading a lot more about them. Still feel we might need another Wolf novel, or Bjorn centered one, that makes him so trusted by Russ as to be brought into his inner circle and then left behind. Also still wondering if we're going to see who the Wolfs get aid from, from an 'unexpected quarter'.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Angel of Blood said:


> Were you as dismayed as I was to learn..
> 
> 
> 
> That Halji, Ilyas White Scar guide of sorts, is a lodge member? For whatever reason I just like him, don't want to see him join the Warmasters Scars.


Yes. Which instantly suggests this novel has been more engaging than most other Heresy novels. If the last few episodes (how many more are there to come?) sustain this level of plot and development, then I can realistically see _Scars_ breaking into my top 3 or 4 (at least).



Angel of Blood said:


> Where's Bjorn and Russ though?? Was looking forward to reading a lot more about them. Still feel we might need another Wolf novel, or Bjorn centered one, that makes him so trusted by Russ as to be brought into his inner circle and then left behind. Also still wondering if we're going to see who the Wolfs get aid from, from an 'unexpected quarter'.


We'll no doubt revisit them before the end of the novel, I just wonder if it sets up or reveals the 'unexpected quarter' arc. :scratchhead:


----------



## Angel of Blood

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Y(how many more are there to come?)


Just two more to go. And yeah, it has been very good, I'm just wanting the full release now.


----------



## Anakwanar

Do not wait for a big reveal or full ending guys, sorry. You will get some answers and 1 big choice, and several AMAZING scenes, but.... It's exactly like Unremembered empire -it's a nexus novel. :smoke:Where would be another one, after that, to finish the plot completely.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Just finished episode XI...



some great insight into Mortarion's character and motives.


----------



## Brother Lucian

Scars XI is very good and I noticed two intriguing tidbits:



The shadow of Magnus tempts Jaghatai with knowledge and says to him that he knows the Emperor's name and that it would suprise him. A few moments later Magnus proffesses knowledge of the world and the *dimension* where Jaghatai's soul would find its ending. A clear hint to his fate in the webway.


----------



## Anakwanar

The main problem of the Scars - that it was positioned as a novel about the famous Chondax naval battle between AL-WS-SW fleets. You know that lore describe all this event as a THREESIDE BIG NAVAL BATTLE. 
But what have we got - a little brawl at Alaxxes via the eyes of the Bjorn, 1 episode confrontation at Chondax and that's it. WTF - WHERE ARE THE FUCK THE BIG battle?
In all else that's awesome novel


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Anakwanar said:


> The main problem of the Scars - that it was positioned as a novel about the famous Chondax naval battle between AL-WS-SW fleets. You know that lore describe all this event as a THREESIDE BIG NAVAL BATTLE.
> But what have we got - a little brawl at Alaxxes via the eyes of the Bjorn, 1 episode confrontation at Chondax and that's it. WTF - WHERE ARE THE FUCK THE BIG battle?
> In all else that's awesome novel


Actually, that was never the case - there never was a big three-way battle in the lore. The Collected Visions' version informs us that Horus despatched the Alpha Legion to prevent the Space Wolves and White Scars from linking up. The Space Wolves were engaged by the Alpha Legion but before the White Scars could aid them they received Dorn's order to return to Terra and reluctantly obeyed, leaving the Space Wolves to their fate. There never was a big battle involving those 3 Legions.


----------



## kwak76

Tempted to buy the series but too much price and will wait for the whole book but I am reading some of the spoilers which sounds very interesting.

Khan is probably one of the few primarchs that has not been fleshed out .


----------



## Count_the_Seven

kwak, I'd say mortarion is in that category too, though with a promise of some attention next year...


----------



## Angel of Blood

Hmmm, is the final episode going to be any bigger than the others, or at least the last one. Episode XI was quite a bit shorter than the previous ones.


----------



## Phoebus

About the only thing I haven't enjoyed about 'Scars' is the fact that the twelve episodes add up to triple the cost of a single eBook novel.

That having been said, kudos to Chris Wraight. 'Scars' has been a fun, captivating ride with some interesting characters and surprising twists. It's a solid read that I would recommend to any fan of the series without reservations.

As an aside, here's something I really enjoyed about Wraight's handling of the White Scars. Much like the Space Wolves and the Ultramarines, the V Legion are the product of a culture that is was originally almost entirely telegraphed from a real-world counterpart. Abnett succeeded in making the Space Wolves more interesting by making the Vlka Fenryka more than just Vikings in Space. Wraight has succeeded by doing the opposite. He has walked a very delicate balance - in my humble opinion - between staying true to the Mongol origins of the White Scars and not hitting you over the head with it. He uses just enough flavor for you to get the message and to feel like this Legion is different and exotic.

By contrast, the failure to do just that has long been one of my central complaints against most of the recent Salamanders fiction. For every interesting theme and concept Nick Kyme has introduced - and, to be fair, that's quite a lot - I feel like I have to dig through boring and repetitive cliches about the three or four things that matter so much to Nocturneans. 

Wraight also uses that flavor to arrive at a logical state for that Legion within the Imperium: fighting hard and fast at the fringes and the frontier, waging their wars as they see fit and without outside control is the only state such a people could have existed in within the Imperium besides outright rebellion.

Anyways, good stuff. Can't wait for Episode XII. I hope Wraight is not forced to trim down an ending that's been building quite nicely. We not only have a Primarch duel to witness (?), but the consequences of a conspiracy within the V Legion to address. Good luck, Chris! :wink:


----------



## Angel of Blood

See, that's why I'm hoping this last episode will be quite a big one page wise. As there seems to be a hell of a lot to conclude with only one episode left. The White Scars loyal to Horus, the duel with Mortarion, the conclusion of the duel, the Khan then getting back to the Legion and then deciding what to do next. Also Russ hasn't been mentioned for quite a few episodes, so I'm wondering if that story is even going to be concluded, are we going to see Russ sally out of the nebula, fight the Alpha Legion and receive help from the mysterious unexpected quarter? Will the Khan communicate with Russ at all and send his regrets for not going to him?

Again, seems to be a massive amount left to read, hoping Wraight isn't hamstrung by a short word count. Though regarding the Vlka Fenryka, I wouldn't mind seeing another novel about them to conclude their actions.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Just finished the final chapter now. Really enjoyed it, the duel between the Khan and Mortarion is one of my favourite duels between the Primarchs that I've read so far, in particular I love how Wraight described the Khans style and ability. Though in choosing Mortarion as an adversary for him, he managed to make the inevitable stalemate more believable in picking the fastest and slowest of the Primarchs. I feel he ended the conflict within the Legion well also, it could have very easily ended in a shit manner, but it didn't.

Overall _Scars_, was a brilliant novel, one of the best in the series I would say. My main praise being directed at how he gave the V Legion their own flavour and personality. He didn't just go 'Mongels in space', but he didn't completely do away with that comparison either. I really liked the idea of the Legion not really caring about the Crusade at all, or the others, but just wanting to hunt, to chase to the edges of the galaxy, unrestrained and unburdened. The Khan was also characterised brilliantly, not just blindly following Horus, or the Emperor initially until he had all the facts.

I do still find it odd that the Space Wolves were even involved at all. Whilst I did like their parts and always like more of Russ and the Vlka Fenryka, they could have easily been made into another novel, or their own novel. Seeing as it wasn't wrapped up really in the end, they were chased into the nebula and then made ready to leave it. Again, like the segments dedicated to Russ and Bjorn, but think they probably should have gone into another novel. No great shakes, just hope I don't have to wait too long to see how their situation resolves.

But yes, very good job Mr Wraight, very good job indeed.


----------



## Brother Lucian

Scars is one of the top Horus Heresy reads for sure, I enjoyed it from start to end. Quite refreshing and full of suprises.


----------



## kwak76

Really want to read now but from the spoilers I find it hard to understand how Khan who is faster than Mortarion ended the duel in a draw. I mean in all mma or boxing..speed kills.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Fighting to the death with weapons is so utterly different from mma, boxing etc that it's not even funny. Mortarion, as has always been said about him and his Legion, is incredibly resilient and can soak up a ridiculous amount of damage and then has a tremendous amount of raw strength to push a light opponent back. The Khan simply started to tire, even though he was inflicting wounds that would kill any other opponent he would have fought, not that Mortarion wasn't tiring as well, both of them admitting this was the most they had ever been tested, the Khan having never felt tired before. I think the Khan might have just won it had Mortarion not needed to retreat to save his fleet in orbit.


----------



## Phoebus

kwak76 said:


> Really want to read now but from the spoilers I find it hard to understand how Khan who is faster than Mortarion ended the duel in a draw. I mean in all mma or boxing..speed kills.


On the other hand, we're not talking about real-life fighting, but a duel between two superhuman beings that exemplify two different ideals. One is a brilliant swordsman that uses speed; the other is the 40k paragon of endurance and perseverance. That is to say, Mortarion's _entire theme_ is taking ridiculous amounts of damage. Furthermore, there's no telling how the fight would have ended had it gone uninterrupted. The only reason why it was a draw was because _Mortarion decided to depart._



Angel of Blood said:


> Just finished the final chapter now. Really enjoyed it, the duel between the Khan and Mortarion is one of my favourite duels between the Primarchs that I've read so far,
> But yes, very good job Mr Wraight, very good job indeed.


It was by far one of my favorite duels. I have a hard time thinking of a better one right now. I think the best thing about it was its cinematic quality. I could literally *see* that action popping out of the pages in my minds eye, and it flowed so nicely.


----------



## Anakwanar

Scars - definitely one of the best 5 HH novels. It's so refreshing and adventurous - that it really helps to still love and stay with the HH after the clusterfucks, which were: Fear to Thread, Vulkan Lives, Mark of Calth and Unremembered empire. 

*To Angel of Blood*
This duel really was a best dexterity in the Galaxy vs the best enthropy endurance and vitality. 
Anyway i really was hoping for the duel Khan vs Alpharius (both of them). Chris, has long time ago was thinking on that, but in the end, he has chosen the duel with Mortarion. 
And from 1 point it's good - because it is really very cool. But from the other point it would be much better (in my humble opinion) to see the style of Alpharius, then he has no choice but to fight personally :biggrin:



> I do still find it odd that the Space Wolves were even involved at all.


 The continuation of their nebula battle would be shown (sadly) in the Thief of Revelations / Hunter's Moon duo audio.  I always prefer a written form. 

Anyway it's becoming a tradition for Black Library to show the synopsis for the novel - which would not be the case for it. Both skirmishes with AL were exactly that - skirmishes and nothing more. It's not a big uneven battle at Chondax, as was written in the Visions of Treachery (which i own) 

Also seems that all the covers from Neil Roberts - show us the events happening at the last pages of the novel -(Remember Unremembered empire, now this) 

*To Phoebus*


> It was by far one of my favorite duels. I have a hard time thinking of a better one right now. I think the best thing about it was its cinematic quality


Definitely. Especially moments with 'Silence', swirling sand and dust :grin:

The problem of Scars - is the same, which is stalking the HH novels for quite a long time now. Nobody dies... Not at least 1 major player, except for AT, has died in the last 5 books. Big battles are absent. Where are the millions dead??? Big battlefields? Even in the last episode engagement of the Scars not even 1 of the ships died. If this scenario will dominate other HH books in the future, we will be praying for someone to die :read:


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Well Henricos is dead if that helps.


----------



## Anakwanar

*To Words_of_Truth:*


> Well Henricos is dead if that helps.


Yeap, killed by little Horus in the Abnett's 'Little Horus' short. Also we saw Hibou where - so seems he will be pardoned. 

Another point - we haven't exactly know the fate of the Hasik (who should be executed in my point of view, but not for his actions, but his desires to incriminate his personal beliefs onto the Legion of freedom), Goglah, Torghun. Where always be division between Terran and Chogoris WS.

* In all - it's really seems like a Nexus novel (but much better than Abnett's 'Unremembered empire') - and all answers, plots and big battles will be written Later. Sad :read:*


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Anakwanar said:


> The problem of Scars - is the same, which is stalking the HH novels for quite a long time now. Nobody dies... Not at least 1 major player, except for AT, has died in the last 5 books. Big battles are absent. Where are the millions dead??? Big battlefields? Even in the last episode engagement of the Scars not even 1 of the ships died. If this scenario will dominate other HH books in the future, we will be praying for someone to die :read:


I don't see how that can be a serious criticism. I would rather a plot focus on intriguing political interplay, character development and interactions rather than shoehorn some bolter porn in just for the sake of it.

I certainly didn't feel there was a lack of action anyway. In fact I thought that the battles against the psychneuein were the only dull parts of the novel.



Anakwanar said:


> Both skirmishes with AL were exactly that - skirmishes and nothing more. It's not a big uneven battle at Chondax, as was written in the Visions of Treachery (which i own)


I've already told you this, but the White Scars didn't fully engage the Alpha Legion in Collected Visions. Only the Space Wolves did, the White Scars reluctantly left the Wolves to their fate and returned to Terra before the Alpha Legion could properly engage them. As far as the previous lore was concerned, the main fighting occurred between the Alpha Legion and Space Wolves (as happened in _Scars_).


----------



## Anakwanar

*Fully agree with [BELLARIUS] and his review* - http://thefoundingfields.com/2013/1...is-wraight-ebook-review-bellarius/#more-10875
*“Lots, of action, pacing and ideas, but very little closure.” – Bellarius, The Founding Fields*

Another nexus novel - *i'm longing for a self-containing story with complete ending in one book*


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## Angel of Blood

Words_of_Truth said:


> Well Henricos is dead if that helps.





Anakwanar said:


> Yeap, killed by little Horus in the Abnett's 'Little Horus' short. Also we saw Hibou where - so seems he will be pardoned.


I really liked this little tie in. When I first saw Bion Henricos, it rang a bell and I went searching through _Fulgrim_ and _Angel Exterminatus_, before finding him in _Little Horus_(the search function e-readers really shines in times like these!). I knew from then that Henricos and Hibou would both survive, but thought it would just be left open, but then Yesugei suggested the kill teams, along with attaching them to Henricos, to the Khan and it all fell into place. Very clever and good linking from Wraight, another way in which he's impressed me. 

I really hope he gets more Heresy novels, in particular the V Legion again, or the Wolves for that matter, though I would prefer Abnett, Wraight definitely has the same feel for them as Abnett did and would still be great for them. 

I hope it's Wraight who gets to write about the Khan and his Legion on Terra and the actions they take during the siege.


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## Words_of_Truth

He was also a primary character in the _Feat of Iron_ short story in the _Primarchs_ anthology. I really liked him from that, he was a Iron Hand who appreciated the use of humans and it was appreciation of them that lead to their victory over Eldar.


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## Lord of the Night

I *REALLY* want to read _Scars_ now. The paperback is being released on Amazon in January so it can't be long now, likely _Scars_ will be out in hardback by November.


LotN


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## March of Time

Lord of the Night said:


> I *REALLY* want to read _Scars_ now. The paperback is being released on Amazon in January so it can't be long now, likely _Scars_ will be out in hardback by November.
> 
> 
> LotN


The trade paper back is being released in May not January.


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## Words_of_Truth

It's weird _Scars_, the way it's been let out doesn't make it feel like a novel to me, it feels more like a short story where a lot of stuff went on.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Lord of the Night said:


> I *REALLY* want to read _Scars_ now. The paperback is being released on Amazon in January so it can't be long now, likely _Scars_ will be out in hardback by November.


Just give in and buy the ebook. :wink:


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## Lord of the Night

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Just give in and buy the ebook. :wink:


Hell no. Twelve parts at £1.50 each is £18. And it would leave my collection incomplete, with a _Scars_ shaped hole in it. It'll be the hardback, or nothing.


LotN


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## bobss

I'll be getting the ebook, after much deliberation.

I've recently cut my collection down to seven novels and a novella, and with multitudes of other novels and graphic novels neither the hardback nor the trade paperback are size suitable.

So I can read the novel with zero physical space taken up, and if I truly enjoy it, I can later get the legacy-master-race-edition without caving in.


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## Angel of Blood

I just used my mates downloads the whole time. Will buy the full novel when it's released.


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## Lord of the Night

Angel of Blood said:


> I just used my mates downloads the whole time. Will buy the full novel when it's released.


Lucky.


LotN


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## Lord of the Night

Thanks to great kindness on a fellow reader's part I have gotten ahold of all 12 parts of _Scars_. My thoughts on Parts I and II;

Part I;




The origins of Torghun Khan and Shiban Khan quickly paint the differences between the Terran Scars and the Chogorian Scars, both have vastly different upbringings, beliefs and training; though Torghun's belief of "No backward step" come from his Luna Wolves training rather than a wide-spread belief among the Terran-born Astartes. It's interesting to see a glimpse of the training, how few make it through the grueling courses and the mindset that the aspirants take on, and how easy it is to fail.

I can also see how Wraight has taken the White Scars beyond the typical Space Mongols idea even this early in the book. The Noble Pursuits and warriors being encouraged to learn them strike me as more reminiscent of the Samurai culture of Japan, while the idea of gifts and trials of heaven make me think of Imperial China, only without the rampant egotism and self-centric world-view. In fact the Scars do come across as a Legion that is truly friendly and their cheerfulness is a nice change from most of the Legions who are either brutal, cold or simply austere.

The only quibble I have, and it may be addressed later in the novel, is that Shiban seems to have gone rather easily with Yesugei and I think his family should have been addressed, he was leaving them behind after all.



Part II;




Back to the present and it's nice to see familiar faces from Brotherhood of the Storm. Shiban and Torghun Khan, Ilya Ravallion and Tartugai Yesugei; and I am already liking Yesugei quite a bit. The thoughtful Stormseer with an easy smile already seems like a memorable character, and his sojourn across Chogoris is a very beautiful image especially with the description of the vast grasslands. I was surprised at his friendship with Ahriman, and that the Khan and Magnus would agree on anything as from the outside they seem like near polar-opposites. But that is a sign of the Khan's hidden depths and the White Scars own hidden depths, on the surface they seem much like the Space Wolves but they are so much more than simply savages. The memories of Nikea were also interesting, and I agree with Ahriman and Yesugei on the point that Ahriman made, "Once a mind has been opened it cannot be closed." He is right, you can't show someone a whole new world and then expect them to forget it, and Yesugei is also right that psyker gifts are not something you can or should discard like an ill-fitting pair of clothes, they are a part of you and you must come to terms with it.

I am not surprised that Torghun Khan still hasn't accepted his Legion fully, reassignment seems like a foolish thing given that a fair amount of indoctrination is implied in the training and in my opinion it amounts to sending a recruit indoctrinated into the ways of one Legion into another. Strife is bound to occur. And the Lodge returns, and it's all Terrans this time. Their "work" already concerns me, the way Torghun talked about it reminds me of men who think they are doing a great thing by making other's see their beliefs, when in reality they are simply tyrants trying to impose what they believe on others. Not all of his Terran comrades have been named but if one of them is Hakim Khan then I will be convinced that they are nascent traitors.

The Wolves are back as well and I am neutral towards them at the minute. I like that Russ has been affected by what happened at Prospero but Bjorn is wrong, unambiguously wrong as only we the reader can see. Magnus was not lost when he and Russ fought, he was lost afterwards. If circumstances hadn't been so stacked against them things could have been different and perhaps Magnus and the Thousand Sons would have rallied to the Emperor, all Russ did was ensure that Horus will have a Legion of sorcerers when he reaches Terra.

And the Alpha Legion are finally being noticed by Shiban and by the Wolves. Very interesting that they announce themselves like that, have to wait and see where this goes.



Edit: And as of 8.39pm I have finished _Scars_. I will post more complete thoughts tomorrow, and work on a review. In short, it and the White Scars are awesome.


LotN


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## nioveratus

I really enjoyed this novel and I agree that it is one the best so far.. I think I was the only one expecting to see a character by the name of Jubal, on Savage Weapons Alajos mentioned that just 20 legiones astartes could beat him and that Jubal Khan from the WS was one of those,, I was looking forward to see him in action and as it turns out the master swordsman is Qin Xa and he is not even mentioned...hopefully he will appear in a later novel..


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## Words_of_Truth

Love Chris Wraight's work, ever since the Empire Heroes series, he's the one author I watch out for the most, followed by ADB.


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## Valrak

So will be audio book be released new year?


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## HamsterExAstris

Valrak said:


> So will be audio book be released new year?


Yes, it should be released early next year at the same time as the hardcover.


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## Khorne's Fist

Loving this book so far. On chapter 8, and it really does reveal a hell of a lot more than any other recent books about the relationships between the primarchs themselves and their father. Some good stuff about just how big, devious, widespread and long planned the Heresy was. Also a couple of hints back to the old Missing Legions chestnut. Hopefully get it finished tomorrow.


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## MontytheMighty

The novel has a nice balance of combat and interaction/drama. I feel that is actually has more of the latter, which will definitely please those readers who are tired of "bolter porn". 

I would've really liked to see more combat between the White Scars and traitor marines. We'll hopefully get a lot of that in the books covering the Siege. 

A bit of a speculative question...but who do you think would've won if the Khan and Mortarion had engaged in that final exchange? The Khan seemed more fatigued but Mortarion seemed to have suffered more wounds. However, it's kinda hinted that Mortarion's power has increases since Ullanor thanks to Nurgle.


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## Khorne's Fist

MontytheMighty said:


> A bit of a speculative question...but who do you think would've won if the Khan and Mortarion had engaged in that final exchange? The Khan seemed more fatigued but Mortarion seemed to have suffered more wounds. However, it's kinda hinted that Mortarion's power has increases since Ullanor thanks to Nurgle.


Maybe, but I keep thinking back to the flashback of the Khan, Mort, Sang and Fulgrim chin wagging on Ullanor. Mort says that unless they actually fought you couldn't pick a winner because they were all made for different fights. I'm inclined to go with the Khan though, as it was more like the kind of fight he seems to have been made for.

The subtle hints that a primarch had already killed a primarch was an interesting easter egg about the missing legions as well. Also, the fact that the Khan didn't seem surprised when he was led to believe that Russ had turned traitor was an interesting fact as well. It was like he thought that would happen eventually.


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## MontytheMighty

Khorne's Fist said:


> The subtle hints that a primarch had already killed a primarch was an interesting easter egg about the missing legions as well.


To me, all the hints regarding "a primarch killing another primarch" seem to be referencing Ferrus Manus vs. Fulgrim. 

When Mortarion confirms Ferrus's death, that confirmation alone is enough to wrongfoot the Khan, who is momentarily taken aback. I don't think the Khan would've been that shocked had another primarch already died by the hand of another primarch early in the Crusade.

I think the HH series is very vague on the topic, whether intentionall or unintentionally. Another primarch (Lorgar IIRC) views Ferrus's death as evidence confirming that primarchs can indeed be killed. That doesn't jive with the idea of the second or eleventh primarch being killed by Russ (or by any other primarch)


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## Brother Lucian

The full version of Scars have gone up for sale:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/scars-enhanced-ebook.html


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## Forward Assist

You can buy it now but you can't download it 'till the 17th...


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## Words_of_Truth

I wish they'd let those who got the individual episodes, get the full book for free.


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## Angel of Blood

Especially as those who bought it in instalments paid £18 for it in total, £6 more, without the illustrations or authors afterword.


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## Vitarus

Forward Assist said:


> You can buy it now but you can't download it 'till the 17th...


Funny how it doesn't say that until AFTER you buy it. Just DOWNLOAD NOW and BUY EBOOK. Why not PREORDER EBOOK like usual?


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## Brother Lucian

And just got another email saying you can download it.


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## Vitarus

Don't fall for it!!!! It's a lie!!!!!!!!


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## Brother Lucian

Vitarus said:


> Don't fall for it!!!! It's a lie!!!!!!!!


Might be an idea to email black library to left them know of the mistake, that you cant dl it, despite the advertising saying its available.


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## Khorne's Fist

MontytheMighty said:


> To me, all the hints regarding "a primarch killing another primarch" seem to be referencing Ferrus Manus vs. Fulgrim.
> 
> When Mortarion confirms Ferrus's death, that confirmation alone is enough to wrongfoot the Khan, who is momentarily taken aback. I don't think the Khan would've been that shocked had another primarch already died by the hand of another primarch early in the Crusade.


But I think there's a bit where it's Yesugei thinking to himself about it before he comes across the Shattered Legion survivors. This is what led me to think there were rumours previous to the Heresy regarding it. 

Personally I think it might have been Guilliman that did the deed instead of the more obvious choice of Russ, though.


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## Vitarus

Brother Lucian said:


> Might be an idea to email black library to left them know of the mistake, that you cant dl it, despite the advertising saying its available.


Heh. I'm sure they'll get right on it.:grin:


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## Words_of_Truth

It's been fixed according to Black Library Facebook page.

"The issue with downloading Scars has been resolved. It's now available to download right now! -Adam"


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## Vitarus

Ah! Indeed it is! Thanks.


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## kwak76

Read the "Scars", novel and enjoyed it very much. 


Some spoiler from the book. 





Khan meeting with Magnus. Magnus told Khan that he saw Khan death. Even the storm seerer kept having dreams about the Khan death. I don't know if this changes from fluff where the Khan was lost in the webway or perhaps that Khan is really lost. 

Khan fight with Mortarion . Khan mentions that Mortarion strength would rival that of Ferrus. So maybe Ferrus , Vulkan and Mortarion are top three in terms of pure strength. For the actual fight it looks to me that Khan would of won. 

I find that Khan decided to fight for the Emperor not too much out of loyalty but because of the corruption of the warp. Which raises the question what if Horus was not corrupted . What if Horus started a civil war because out of political and social reason instead of corruption from the warp? The Emperor is known as a tyrant and I think Khan might of sided with Horus or just went off in his own way.

Mortarion went to Khan to see which side he took. Khan choose to battle against the corruption of the warp . Khan pointed out how Mortarion is being corrupted and I think Mortarion regretted picking the side of Horus because the corruption was getting to Mortarion. I think Mortarion wanted to create a third division. I mean Horus is corrupted. The Emperor would not forgive Mortarion for his betray and Mortarion was afraid that the warp corruption would consume him so he wanted Khan to be on his side. 

Mortarion mention about having a new Emperor and it can be the Khan or someone besides Horus. I thought that was interesting.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

kwak76 said:


> Khan meeting with Magnus. Magnus told Khan that he saw Khan death. Even the storm seerer kept having dreams about the Khan death. I don't know if this changes from fluff where the Khan was lost in the webway or perhaps that Khan is really lost.


No, I don't think _Scars_ has changed anything in that regard. We never knew if the Khagan died or not, only that he was lost in a similar fashion to several other Primarchs. I believe _Scars_ was just precipitating this. 



kwak76 said:


> I find that Khan decided to fight for the Emperor not too much out of loyalty but because of the corruption of the warp. Which raises the question what if Horus was not corrupted . What if Horus started a civil war because out of political and social reason instead of corruption from the warp? The Emperor is known as a tyrant and I think Khan might of sided with Horus or just went off in his own way.


If Horus had handled the situation with more care, it seems quite possible that he either could have gained the allegiance of the White Scars or perhaps removed them from the conflict altogether. 



kwak76 said:


> Mortarion mention about having a new Emperor and it can be the Khan or someone besides Horus. I thought that was interesting.


The last few novels in the series have certainly given us a taste of the disunity of the rebel leadership. We know that the vast majority, if not all, of the traitor Primarchs had alternate agendas and were not steadfastly loyal to Horus. Mortarion's admission (pre-acceptance of Nurgle) in _Scars_ was very interesting.


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## kwak76

Question about the White Scars? They don't use Dreadnought from my understanding so I take it if a white scar is badly injured is he just put to death or sent to retirement? 
I mean pretty much every other legions has dreadnought except for the white scars. I find that this makes them incomplete compared to other legions. 

After reading the scars and knowing what I know about other legions and the primarch. I consider Khan and Corax to be almost of similar type of legion. Corax relies on stealth where as Khan is about speed . Kind of like whoever gets to the enemy first. One by sneaking up on them and another by speed. 



I know in the book they compared Russ legions to Khan because of there barbarian nature but I think the style of fighting of the legions are different. Same with the Primarchs. I picture Russ being more power swinging his sword and the space wolves fighting with brute strength. With the Khan it's more finesse and the scars being the same. Again I'm just guessing here.

And about Mortarion. I'm curious to know why he turned traitor. From "the flight of the Eisenstein", it doesn't go into it too much and if I remember didn't the Emperor save Mortarion?


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## Brother Lucian

Morty bore resentment against the Emperor because he didnt let him have his vengeance against his once 'father', the warlord whom had raised him. As the toxic surroundings was too much for even Morty's prodigous resilience to cope with, the Emperor striking down the warlord just before he could slay Morty.


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## F22Reject

Oh man i'm super late on finishing this. Refused outright to buy the ebooks as they were released. And i waited, and waited. Finally i dropped 50 on the hardback cover and shipping. 

Totally worth it. Loved the book. Love the author. Love the scars. 

Think we need more books on the unconventional legions. Tired of the same cookie cutter ones.


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## Stephen74

Just bought it on Audio book as I was doing a lot of driving this past week. Struggled to handle the jumps between various scenes but that was more down to me concentrating on driving than anything with the book. 

Was pretty good, better than some of the other books, but it left me feeling like the scars story was really unfinished. Not sure we will get anymore white scars books and that's disappointing. 

I liked the little sub plots being unveiled. A bit more back ground to Nikea and how it fitted in to the grand scheme of launching the heresy, actions of the Alpha Legion in manipulating events fore and against horus. Always wondered how they would make Mortarian a bad ass given his breathing problems but they did a great job on that, the confusion between legions as how events started to unfold. 

I think I would have preferred this to have come out earlier in the series. When a list is put together on what order to read books, this has to be fairly early on. After Thousand Sons maybe.


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## Khorne's Fist

Stephen74 said:


> I think I would have preferred this to have come out earlier in the series. When a list is put together on what order to read books, this has to be fairly early on. After Thousand Sons maybe.


That's a very good point. After Prospero Burns would do it.


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## F22Reject

Finishing up the audio book myself while driving. Have a semi..curious question that perhaps you fine gentlemen could clear up. Contains spoilers if you haven't read the book, and i have no clue how to hide spoilers, feel free to enlighten me as well, so reader beware 


So, Khagan teleports back to his ship to find everyone not really playing nice. Walks up the Hassik Noyan Khan and says something like, bro did i say you could raise your blade in my house? nobody lifts a weapon without my say. He then stabbed bro for lifting his blade and tosses him aside right? I got to thinking though, The Weather Maker Yeusegui translates into the Prospero system to find the legion just kinda..chillen. He then takes it upon himself to blast the Death Guard. No permission from the Khagan, he just does it. 

Now, isn't that the same thing Hassik did? and yet Hassik got stuck for his troubles and the Weather Maker got a warm greeting. Any thoughts? I realize the depths of the difference in their actions, but the principle remains the same. Nobody said kill them DG kids.


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## Khorne's Fist

I think it's because Yesugei already knew that the DG had turned traitor, and knew all about Istvaan.


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## F22Reject

Khorne's Fist said:


> I think it's because Yesugei already knew that the DG had turned traitor, and knew all about Istvaan.


Totally. Like his reasoning for attacking i get completely. The Khagan's understanding of why he attacked i understand as well. 

Where i fall short is that he attacked without permission to do so. He raised his blade without the Khagan saying that is the path we are taking. The same thing Hassik did, even though Hassik's crimes were clearly 100% worst.


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## Khorne's Fist

Yesugei is a completely different animal. He's the Khan's personal advisor, and the storm seers seem to be outside the normal rank structure. Someone that trusted gets a bit more leeway than a line captain.


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## ckcrawford

This bothers me so much. I really want to get this novel on paperback. Or at least a good price, however its always shipping that hits in. Because of my financial situation I'm afraid to bite the bullet and accept 10-16 bucks. I'm the type of person that starts to justify his purchases afterwards.


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## Stephen74

ckcrawford said:


> This bothers me so much. I really want to get this novel on paperback. Or at least a good price, however its always shipping that hits in. Because of my financial situation I'm afraid to bite the bullet and accept 10-16 bucks. I'm the type of person that starts to justify his purchases afterwards.


 No good to you as an e-book ?


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## Stephen74

F22Reject said:


> Finishing up the audio book myself while driving. Have a semi..curious question that perhaps you fine gentlemen could clear up. Contains spoilers if you haven't read the book, and i have no clue how to hide spoilers, feel free to enlighten me as well, so reader beware
> 
> 
> So, Khagan teleports back to his ship to find everyone not really playing nice. Walks up the Hassik Noyan Khan and says something like, bro did i say you could raise your blade in my house? nobody lifts a weapon without my say. He then stabbed bro for lifting his blade and tosses him aside right? I got to thinking though, The Weather Maker Yeusegui translates into the Prospero system to find the legion just kinda..chillen. He then takes it upon himself to blast the Death Guard. No permission from the Khagan, he just does it.
> 
> Now, isn't that the same thing Hassik did? and yet Hassik got stuck for his troubles and the Weather Maker got a warm greeting. Any thoughts? I realize the depths of the difference in their actions, but the principle remains the same. Nobody said kill them DG kids.


My understanding of it was
Khagan was pissed that he had told his Legion to wait for his decision as to what side they were going to take yet Noyan and his groupies took action in his (the khagans) name. The lifting of the blade in the Khagans presence was just an excuse to slice and dice Noyan. 

That was very different to Yeusegui who had determined the Death Guard were the enemy and were attempting to prevent an attack on the scars. He was protecting the legion from a (possible) imminent attack and he was doing it off his own back and not claiming he was acting for the khagan.

Had the Khagan decided to join mortarian, it could well have been Yeusegui getting the chop.


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## ckcrawford

Stephen74 said:


> No good to you as an e-book ?


I did that a couple times, but I felt really bad afterwords because if its a good book I will add it to my collection. Don't feel like getting double priced.


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## Viciator

Amazing book! But left me wondering...



What IS the Emperor's real name (I guess this can be more of a guess..  But Magnus said the Khan will be surprised.. so that might be enough of a clue.. why would he be surprised?) Who/what made the Khan go to Chogoris instead of Fulgrim? And why? What kind of psychic power hides within the Khan?


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## Sethis

So I'm aware that this is pretty old news, however I just got it in paperback and was HUGELY impressed.

I hadn't previously read any of his stuff, sticking mainly to the HH series after continuous disappointments from everyone except Abnett in the quality of the work being offered.

A lot of the writers seem to suffer from an inability to make a Legion have its own flavour. For example Fear to Tread and Descent of Angels had very little to distinguish the "Angels" as being unique in any way. Abnett is the king of this, managing to take the ultra-vanilla vanilla marines of vanillaness (Ultramarines, if you didn't pick that up) and give them the whole "Mark", Theoretical/Practical and worrying about their role as statesmen after the Crusade to make them unique, along with the Alpha Legion, Sons of Horus, Space Wolves etc etc.

Wraight does just as well in this novel, giving insight into a previously near-unknown Legion. He dwells on their relationship to the other legions, their unwillingness to change due to outsiders preconceptions of what they are/should be, and their philosophy of battle - laugh as you kill, speed, precision. He also rounds out the Khan fantastically - drawing him close to Magnus, showing us the unique way in which he deals with his legion, and how he interacts with the other Primarchs and his views on the Emperor.

Overall a fantastic book - certainly the most enjoyable non-Abnett offering since the series first started with Fulgrim and Mechanicus. Now I need to go read his other works and hope they're as good as this.


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## Tawa

Yup, after watching it get released in about 40,000 parts I thought "No, not happening".

I then picked up the paperback on Saturday. Yet to read it, as I've only just started Angel Exterminatus :laugh:


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## MontytheMighty

Sethis said:


> certainly the most enjoyable non-Abnett offering since the series first started with Fulgrim and Mechanicus.


Would you rate this higher than The First Heretic. I actually would out of my bias


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## Sethis

Difficult to say, it's been a long time since I read Heretic, and I never liked the Word Bearers to begin with.


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## Anakwanar

Scars and First Heretic are very good - especially comparing to the last 3 HH novels :grin:


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## Angel of Blood

Sethis said:


> Difficult to say, it's been a long time since I read Heretic, and I never liked the Word Bearers to begin with.


This is a problem I have as well. I never liked the Word Bearers before _The First Heretic_, and despite ADB's brilliant writing and story, I still just don't like them. And that reason alone will always, sadly keep that novel out of my top list when contending with the likes of _Legion, Prospero Burns and Scars_.


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