# Help with Lizardmen



## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

Ok so I've been playing Lizardmen and I haven't even won a single game. The last game I played was against Skaven about 2 days ago and I lost quite hideously then too (damn Plague lol). 

Generally I play about 1500pt games and run with 2 blocks of 20 Saurus, one with HW and the other with spears. I also have 12 skink skirmishers, a lvl2 Priest with Plaque of Tepok, 16 TG and a Slann with Lore of Life (though I ran Light in my last game), Focus of Mystery, Focussed Rumination and Becalming Cogitation. I also have a Scar Vet with light armour, shield and Burning Blade of Chotec.

What advice could you give me in order to up my game and at least pull off more casulties before suffering them myself?


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I'd consider dumping the skink priest in favor of more Saurus Warriors, and giving both units spears. Alternatively, just make it one unit of 40, make the Scar Veteran the BSB and give him the Razor Banner and a great weapon, and have the Slaan cast Lore of Light speed buffs on the unit. It's a -very- tough unit to crack if you have the buffs that make them WS10, I10, and Always Strike First-- you have a bunch of attacks at that point hitting on 3's and re-rolling misses. Just have to back them up with skink skirmishers to make sure they don't get flanked and have time to change facings if they're getting outmaneuvered. 

I'd also consider running the Temple Guard independently of the Slaan. I know that sounds nuts, but seriously, you can use them as a hard anchor on one flank to make sure that your Saurus aren't outmaneuvered. If the Slaan miscasts (it'll happen, just wait) he won't blow a big hole in the expensive Temple Guard unit. Just have to have him hang out behind the Saurus and cast his spells as needed.


----------



## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

Hmm interesting idea there. I may end up dropping the priest anyway seeing as I haven't used him in battle as much as I thought I may have done. One thing I forgot to mention earlier as well is that I recently bought Chakax (though he's not even out the box yet lol) so would that make any kind of impression at all?


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Chakax is -very- cool, and the model is great. I actually have him sitting on my desk-- just wanted to paint him, even though I don't play Lizardmen. The problem with him, however, is that he's hideously expensive and unless you're planning on going Chaos Lord hunting, he can't do anything that a Scar Veteran can't do for a third the points cost. 

I'd still use the model as a Scar Veteran or Oldblood, though-- he's way too cool a model not to use in some capacity!


----------



## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

Well my girlfriend started collecting WoC and will eventually be getting into gaming witgh them, so I'm kinda preparing for her assault lol. She has a Chaos Lord on Juggernaut which I think she'll be running mostly with Chaos Warriors and Knights, she's not so big on the Marauders if only for their looks lol. So it may be that I'll need Chakax for the Lord hunting. The question there is do I run him independantly or with the Temple Guard?


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

A lord of Khorne may give Chakax a run for his money. I'd have him with a big unit of Saurus, rather than Temple Guard. Honestly, Lizardmen do very well right now with units of 40 or more Saurus with spears, buffed by a Slaan. Dropping Chakax in there just makes the unit even harder. You do have to be a little careful about all the eggs in one basket, since somebody intentionally miscasting Pit of Shades or Purple Sun does terrible things to Lizardmen... but either way, the unit probably should have some sort of Saurus character leading it, and if you're going to bring Chakax, you might as well put him there. 

The thing about Temple Guard is that they don't really do much that Saurus can't do right now. The halberds are nice, and the point of armor is definitely good. But the price difference between the Temple Guard and the Saurus makes bringing more Saurus seem like a better idea. That's not to say you shouldn't run the Temple Guard-- but I'd keep it to one unit of no more than 20 models, and use them as a strong anchor for your battle line units of Saurus. They're better fighters than the Saurus and can go toe to toe with Warriors without the Slaan buffing them (you'll lose a lot of models, but you'll kill a bunch too). 

I wouldn't worry too much about Chaos Knights. They're probably the best cavalry in the game... BUT... you can mess with their charges with skink skirmishers pretty easily, and short of something stupid like a unit of 10-15 Knights, they're not going to be able to cut through your Saurus in one round of combat. Especially buffed Saurus. There's a recurring theme here-- your Slaan -needs- Lore of Light to make the army work right now. 

Warriors are your main concern, and as a Warriors of Chaos player, I can safely say that skinks sitting and shooting at me while I'm advancing is surprisingly effective. Combine that with buffed Saurus striking first, and Warriors can't quite hack it. And even if they do win combat, Lizardmen have some of the best leadership in the game. Warriors with anything other than hand weapon and shield don't do so well at protracted combats, but Saurus with spears are quite good at it.


----------



## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

Cool, well I guess I'm pretty much ready for Warriors of Chaos then. I've played them a couple of times before and in one case, failed a leadership test and fled straight into another unit and got obliterated lol. What advice can you give for other armies? I've already played against Orcs & Goblins, Ogres (a very beardy list too lol) and Skaven.


----------



## mixer86 (Jul 29, 2010)

For me the thing you really need is salamanders. they are awesome in every way. i'd drop the TG and try and fit a couple in. you won't regret it.


----------



## Mundungu (Jul 23, 2010)

I second the salamanders. drop the priest and maybe the scar vet for one. If you can get a second in the list, you'll do even better. Salamanders are the way to bust infantry blocks, both large and high armor.


----------



## mixer86 (Jul 29, 2010)

Also take the extra handler upgrade, to get 2 sallys, u need to find 160 from your list.


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Razordons are significantly better than salamanders, in my opinion. They have better range, and can actually stop a charge with their silly stand and shoot reaction. The salamanders are more effective against heavy cavalry since you're likely to cripple the unit by killing just a couple models, but this really isn't a cavalry-intensive edition of the game. The razordons chew on enemy infantry units and make it so that they don't have the numbers to stand up to a strong unit of Saurus, much less one that's been buffed by the Slaan. Razordons absolutely ruin anything not wearing Chaos armor, I've found, and even when shooting Warriors of Chaos, they tend to make their points back pretty quickly.

That being said, I never found them strictly necessary. Saurus Warriors really seem to do the heavy lifting for the army. The more you spend with the relatively expensive support units, the less you're investing in what's forming your main battle line. There's really very little that a unit of Saurus Warriors lead by a Scar Veteran or an Oldblood can't do, particularly when supported by a Slaan. The best shooting units Lizardmen have, I think, are Skink Skirmishers. They're relatively inexpensive for what you get out of them, and they have a million and three uses beyond screwing up enemy units' rank bonuses by blowpiping a couple models a turn-- redirecting charges, hunting down war machines quickly, stalling an enemy elite unit for a turn while your Saurus reform (provided the Slaan is nearby to make sure they don't go scurrying off when they lose combat), etc. If you really need heavy shooting, I really like the Stegadon-- there's never a moment where a bolt thrower is bad, and once close combats get started, it can go charging headfirst in to keep supporting your Saurus.


----------



## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

Ah, the classic Razordon vs Salamander issue. From what I can gather, the Razordon merely has 12" range with some other rule I forget at the moment and the Salamander gets the flame template plus a roll of the artillery dice. So it seems Salamanders have potentially slightly better range with a good roll and get flaming attacks too as well as the breath thing. However, both have roughly the same stat line and points cost so its merely a choice of how you want to play. For 300 points, you can have 2 of each which, for 4 specials, isn't too bad


----------



## Flindo (Oct 30, 2010)

lore of light, every time.


----------



## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

The salamander is better in 8th edition because of the common use of infantry blocks and the ability to march and shoot. The flaming template and auto panic test when it causes a wound are huge benefits for the sallies over the razors. Sallies do more potential damage and cut through regen. Razors are more defensive and for flank protection. If you look at what is played at Indy GT tourneys, you will see very few Razors and most armies having sallies. A unit of 2 or 3 sallies is almost automatic in most 8th edition armies. 

LM armies are best at and above 2000 points, due to the Slann; so it is not surprising to see the army struggle more at 1500 points. Temple Guard are great with Slanns but generally more expensive than Saurus, so you are better off running saurus blocks. Use an oldblood with armour of destiny and crown of command as the general. Run small units of skink skirmishers and chameleon skinks for their poison shooting (can deal with tough monsters with lower armour saves) and to march and shoot and bait and flee and provide protection.


----------



## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

I seriously need more rep giving abilities as I'd be dishing out loads by now if I could lol. I think I'll definately be grabbing a couple of Sallies at some point as well as working up to 2k games. Might get a Razor or two as well to shake things up and both are cheap for points too.

Edit: just found the rep button lol. Have some rep olderplayer and Son of horus


----------



## mixer86 (Jul 29, 2010)

Razer Sabre, aren't sallys and razors rare, not special?


----------



## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

I think they are indeed, my mistake lol. Still cheap for what they are though


----------



## mixer86 (Jul 29, 2010)

Absolutely, truly amazing units to have. Best thing i ever saw was turn 1 a sally do 1 wound on a clanrat unit, forcing them to panic and run away, which in turn made queek headtakers 40 strong stormvermin unit run away which in turn made 5 jezzails run away which in turn made a lighting cannon run away. so an 80 point unit made what must on been nearly 1000 points leg it turn 1. PRICELESS


----------



## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

damn man, that's awesome. i really need me one or two of those


----------



## mixer86 (Jul 29, 2010)

Obviously that rarely happens to that extent but just 1 wound forces a panic test for the unt. so it can happen.


----------



## Raizer Sabre (Nov 8, 2010)

yeah, might forgo the razors for a while but i won't be getting the sallies any time soon either...damn moving screws everything up lol

even so, as rarely as that kinda thing happens, the fact that it has happened means theres a chance of doing it again. its a useful thing to know that it can be done, even if its once in a blue moon


----------



## mixer86 (Jul 29, 2010)

true, and the fact they can march and shoot is great. they aren't too shabby in combat either. which means they become a target. which means the more time the enemy spend on them means there's a better chance your saurus will hit combat at full strength.


----------

