# Concerning the Astral Claws/Red Corsairs...



## Eleaxus (Aug 1, 2009)

I have recently grown interested in some of the older fluff, and must say I love Huron. That said, is it likely we will see more on them from BL this new year?


----------



## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

It is interesting to note that the CSM Fluff is heading back on the up-turn after taking a few month hiatus. I don't read CSM too often (as all the "Blood for the Blood God" drives me up a wall) but I know that there are three main figureheads. Abaddon, Huron, and Fabius Bile. Of these three I think Huron is the most drooled over; mainly for the rogue'ish character that he has developed into.

From my understanding he was not a typical Choas convert, but rather a open Rebel against the Imperium and his fellow Astartes. He managed to gather forces of fellow Astartes Chapters and almost, very slim almost, managed to trigger another Heresy event. He stands outside the power of the Imperium, yet is not fully corrupted by a Choatic power. He is just the devilish Rogue with a evil and hidden agenda.


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Don't know really, with the Badab War books being covered by FW they seem to fall in FW's camp to develop, that said that is really the Astral Claws side of things rather than the Red Corsairs. I mean he has been mentioned "recently" in ADB work and is pretty corrupted by chaos which is different to what he was like during the Badab War (obviously), they are probably just waiting for an author to take an interest in him. Maybe ADB will after he is done with Abaddon.


----------



## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Huron Blackheart is pretty much Chaos Undivided, and a love/hate buddy of Abbadon as seen in Pandorax.


----------



## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> I mean he has been mentioned "recently" in ADB work and is pretty corrupted by chaos which is different to what he was like during the Badab War (obviously), they are probably just waiting for an author to take an interest in him.


So he is offically corrupted now Jacobite? I was thinking he had jst withdrawn to a new hideout and had been healed.


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I know for a fact that he falls to Chaos after the Badab War since at the latest 2006 due to the IA article published on him and I suspect he has always been so (since 1989 when the Badab War was written in). I don't have a copy of the Warhammer 40,000: Compendium from 1989 though so I can't confirm it. Maybe somebody who does can. As for recent sources look at Blood Reaver by ADB, the Chaos Codex or just look at his mini, how many chaos icons and stars has he got? His rules also include "Champion of Chaos" and "Veterans of the Long War", both Chaos special rules.


----------



## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I'm not the biggest fan of Huron.

It seems like, just an edition ago, he was the poster-boy for Renegade Space Marines. The story of his fall was an interesting one, and his status following his exile to the Maelstrom seemed fitting giving the realities of the universe he lived in: his signature victory was the capture of a Space Wolves strike cruiser.

Fast-forward a little while, though, and Huron has suddenly been built up to the point where he's (seemingly) second only to Abaddon in terms of power - insofar as Space Marines are concerned.

Isn't that a bit ridiculous? Think about it for a second. The capture of the Wolf of Fenris was qualified as "his greatest prize". This happened an indeterminate amount of time after 912.M41, which was when the Badab War ended. His force consisted of what was left of his Chapter and its fleet, plus a number of captured merchantmen that had been converted into ad-hoc warships.

Now, take into account that Huron had once been the master of a super-sized Chapter (three times the size that the Codex allowed for) and the acknowledged Primus Inter Pares of a coalition of Chapters responsible for guarding against the horrors of the Maelstrom. When he went renegade, three other Chapters followed suit. _In less than a decade,_ the Imperium had squashed his revolt and sent him fleeing into the Maelstrom with only a fraction of his remaining forces.

In the ninety years that followed, though, Huron "has grown his group of renegades as large as the Space Marine Legions of old." He has "dozens of cruisers" at his disposal. He has become not just a warlord, but a power-broker in his own right, providing the likes of Honsou entire armies with which to invade _Ultramar._

The part of all this that is so difficult for me to swallow is that Huron Blackheart became *much more* dangerous to the Imperium *after* the Badab War with *far less* resources than those he had *before it.* I can't help but feel that his notoriety and power is out of scale from what it was once intended to be... and that the justifications for it are just too broad, vague, and unconvincing.


----------



## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Well, someone having 20.000+ space marines under their command is someone to truly worry about.


----------



## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I honestly don't now how many Space Marines Huron has under his command. If he has 20,000, then I have even stronger feelings about where he's at in terms of his power.

Again, I'm not opposed to Huron being this very powerful warlord. I'm simply less than impressed at how Huron went from A to B. The more powerful he is at this point, the more jarring it is... given the utter lack of background on how he gained all this power.

I don't know, maybe I'm missing crucial material.

I'm familiar with last edition's Codex: Chaos Space Marines, which outlines the capture of the Wolf of Fenris by Huron and describes the state of Blackheart's force. I'm also familiar with the Imperial Armour books on the Badab War. I remember the Fall of Vilamus from last edition's Core Rulebook, as well. And finally I've read _Blood Reaver, The Gildar Rift,_ and "The Skull Harvest".

That's my context for the character. And honestly, it feels like he goes from this hard-bitten survivor, pirate, and renegade to someone with unbelievable power.


----------



## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

In ashort story from Graham it has been explained how Honsou got his army to invade ultramer near 999 (I think, fesival of skulls or something ?). This army was pretty sizable, I do not know the exact number of marines but enough to start a small crusade. Based upon the impression I got from gildar rift, Pandorax and red corsair, I would say he does not give away this army too a potential enemy if he does not have a significant army himself. Based upon the description in the short story (and red corsair) he is very powerful indeed and up into his neck in chaos.


----------



## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

It's "The Skull Harvest", piemelke.


----------



## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

cheers


----------



## Eleaxus (Aug 1, 2009)

Phoebus said:


> I honestly don't now how many Space Marines Huron has under his command. If he has 20,000, then I have even stronger feelings about where he's at in terms of his power.
> 
> Again, I'm not opposed to Huron being this very powerful warlord. I'm simply less than impressed at how Huron went from A to B. The more powerful he is at this point, the more jarring it is... given the utter lack of background on how he gained all this power.
> 
> ...


Hmm, I would agree with that (And I also believe those are the main fluff sources that have been written thus far for the AC/RC correct?

That said, I suppose the only way to know is to wait until we get more novels on the character (He had a new warlords piece released not too long ago) and his popularity seems to be there, what do you think?


----------



## Karthak (Jul 25, 2010)

Phoebus said:


> In the ninety years that followed, though, Huron "has grown his group of renegades as large as the Space Marine Legions of old." He has "dozens of cruisers" at his disposal. He has become not just a warlord, but a power-broker in his own right, providing the likes of Honsou entire armies with which to invade _Ultramar._


I just ignore that stuff as rulebook/codex hyperbole. The Red Corsairs going from a few hundred Astral Claws survivors to a force to rival the First Legions in less than a century? Bwahaha. In Blood Reaver, Huron enlisted the Night Lords because a direct assault on the Fortress Monastery would have ended with the Red Corsair fleet being blasted from the skies. That does not sound like "as large as the legions of old" to me.

I find it funny that some people dismiss the lore in the black library books because they think that it's somehow "less legitimate" than the codexes, since I'm pretty much of the opposite opinion. I prefer the black library lore because on the whole it's not as outrageously exaggerated as the stuff in the codexes.


----------



## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I dig the Black Library novels, don't get me wrong. In this case, though, they've contributed to the phenomenon we're discussing. Starting with "The Skull Harvest", Huron Blackheart went from hard-bitten survivor-turned-pirate to "mega warlord" who is many times more powerful than he was prior to the Badab War.


----------



## Eleaxus (Aug 1, 2009)

So, it seems the next fluff will (hopefully) lay out how Huron is able to grow/maintain such a force, which is most likely 

A) Huron had more Astral Claws around/alive or that later he gets more/retains more?)

B) There is a fluff piece I remember reading where he was also housing the Tiger Claws chapter and possibly other descendants. Could these in-hidden chapters also be a reason for the Red Corsairs strength?


----------



## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Only having nominal familiarity with either the Badab War or Huron Blackheart, it blows me away that BL would have him with 20,000+ marines... Christ on a Crutch! Is the only reason he hasn't played patty-cakes on the Imperium not having a naval presence that can launch him free to play in the galaxy? At this point he is unequivocally one of the Imperium's most dangerous opponents. Even the Nids only merit seemingly less than a dozen or so chapters at a throw, but this dude's ready to play with a couple dozen.


----------



## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Dont forget that the Red Corsairs accepts space marine renegades of all stripes. Which is a major reason for their forces swelling.

Astartes craves the bond of brotherhood with other marines, and if they are exiled, or otherwise lonely, it can be easy to accept Huron's offer.


----------



## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I think the Warp's non-linear time has something to do with it. We know the Badab war happened less than 100 years before the 13th Black Crusade, yet the Flayer notes that the Red Corsairs have become just as corrupted as any of the original Traitor Legions in mere "centuries" in the Maelstrom.


----------



## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Brother Lucian said:


> Dont forget that the Red Corsairs accepts space marine renegades of all stripes. Which is a major reason for their forces swelling.


So does the Black Legion, which has not grown notably since the Heresy, which is a far longer than the Red Corsairs have existed.

Plus, that requires that an entire Legion's worth of Marines have defected in one area of the Imperium in only a century. Surely such a loss would be notable.



hailene said:


> I think the Warp's non-linear time has something to do with it. We know the Badab war happened less than 100 years before the 13th Black Crusade, yet the Flayer notes that the Red Corsairs have become just as corrupted as any of the original Traitor Legions in mere "centuries" in the Maelstrom.


Corruption isn't a strictly linear thing though. The Traitor Legions themselves are not a consistent level of corruption and I would say its due more to the individuals tie to Chaos. The Red Corsairs may simply be more fanatical followers of the Gods than some of the Traitors (not hard given that some are basically atheist). It also seems that corruption doesn't occur at a constant rate. For example: the difference between the Emperor's Children from pre-Istvaan III to the events of _Angel Exterminatus _versus the difference between the post _AE_ and modern. I'd say that corruption opens with a bang and then tapers off, so it may not take all that much time to become 'fully' corrupted.


----------



## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

MEQinc said:


> Corruption isn't a strictly linear thing though.


The corruption rate doesn't matter. The important point I was raising is that the Corsairs had centuries to become corrupted. In otherwords, they had centuries to build up their numbers, create fleets, ect.

Huron didn't necessarily amass his force in the 80 (sidereal) years since the fall of Badab. He's had a lot more (potentially).


----------



## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

hailene said:


> The corruption rate doesn't matter. The important point I was raising is that the Corsairs had centuries to become corrupted. In otherwords, they had centuries to build up their numbers, create fleets, ect.
> 
> Huron didn't necessarily amass his force in the 80 (sidereal) years since the fall of Badab. He's had a lot more (potentially).


Well my point was that you can't assume Huron's had more time just because his force is corrupted. It wouldn't take centuries. It wouldn't necessarily take years. So assuming Huron's had centuries based on that is faulty.

Plus,the fact that Huron's maybe had centuries is irrelevant. His recruits are coming from the materium (almost exclusively) and therefore have to have turned sometime after the Astral Claws did. Otherwise they joined the Red Corsairs before the Red Corsairs existed.


----------



## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

MEQinc said:


> So assuming Huron's had centuries based on that is faulty.


No no no...let me drag the quote out for you.

"In mere centuries, many of the Red Corsairs were as victimised by genetic disorder as the Traitor Legions dwelling within the Eye of Terror for millennia."

Also _Blood Reaver_ states that the Red Corsairs have augmenting a space station with "centuries of raiding".



MEQinc said:


> His recruits are coming from the materium (almost exclusively)


Source?

The Maelstrom is a very large place. On a single station within the Maelstrom, a relative few number of Night Lords slaves are able to gather up several hundred uncorrupted youth for implantation. And that is but one station.

EVEN if Huron was recruiting solely from the materium, how many recruits could he drag from a Hive's gangs? From a feral world? He could scoop up thousands, if not tens of thousands, of ripe potential spacemarines from a single deathworld. Recruits are rarely a problem if you're willing to spread your net wide enough.

Geneseed is the issue...but if it (or the Astartes it's implanted in) is chilling in the Maelstrom, then they have centuries for it to grow.


----------



## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

hailene said:


> No no no...let me drag the quote out for you.
> 
> "In mere centuries, many of the Red Corsairs were as victimised by genetic disorder as the Traitor Legions dwelling within the Eye of Terror for millennia."
> 
> Also _Blood Reaver_ states that the Red Corsairs have augmenting a space station with "centuries of raiding".


Oh. Oops. I thought you were discussing how long it took them to get corrupted but you were actually basing the entire thing off the "mere centuries" bit. Now I feel foolish. 

I'll point out (mostly to salvage some pride) that the language of those quotes is extremely vague and comes from an unspecified point in time. We don't know when exactly _Blood Reaver_ takes place (we can speculate but we can't be sure). Personally I see it as the author being vague to avoid conflicting with established dates rather than very subtly hinting that the Red Corsairs have been active for longer than previously established.



> The Maelstrom is a very large place. On a single station within the Maelstrom, a relative few number of Night Lords slaves are able to gather up several hundred uncorrupted youth for implantation. And that is but one station.
> 
> EVEN if Huron was recruiting solely from the materium, how many recruits could he drag from a Hive's gangs? From a feral world? He could scoop up thousands, if not tens of thousands, of ripe potential spacemarines from a single deathworld. Recruits are rarely a problem if you're willing to spread your net wide enough.


I didn't realize/remember the Maelstrom had planets in it. However I wasn't referring to creating new Marines. I was referring to other traitors and renegades joining, it should be obvious why those individuals would have to come from the materium. 


Huron has somehow increased his force from ~200 (survivors of Badab) to ~100,000 (average Legion size) in at most a couple centuries. How is that possible? The Traitor Legions haven't grow noticeably over a far longer time scale and the number of Chapters going rouge hasn't suddenly spiked. The numbers there just don't add up.


----------



## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

MEQinc said:


> Personally I see it as the author being vague to avoid conflicting with established dates rather than very subtly hinting that the Red Corsairs have been active for longer than previously established.


Oh, we can get pretty close.

It happened around 994999.m41--The Fall of Vilamus.

Theoretically, I guess, the fleet from Hell's Iris (the space station) could have taken a long time.

We DEFINITELY know it's "sometime after the Badab War" (which ended in 912.M41) and sometime BEFORE the 13th Black Crusade (999.M41).



MEQinc said:


> I didn't realize/remember the Maelstrom had planets in it.


it does.

"They’d already sailed past several worlds, through the heart of three systems. On one of the worlds, the oceans had boiled, visible even from orbit. Unnatural storms plagued the planet’s face, raining piss, acid and blood onto the continents below."



MEQinc said:


> Huron has somehow increased his force from ~200 (survivors of Badab) to ~100,000 (average Legion size)


I don't think we've seen numbers to support THAT many. I'm thinking closer to 10-20k. But if someone could provide more solid numbers, I would be happy to read their sources.

The Astral Claws were going absolutely nuts in cultivating new geneseed, before before and during (perhaps especially) the Badab War. They also stole whatever they could (from ally or foe). 

I can't imagine Vilamus is their first geneseed grab--though almost undoubtedly their most successful.


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Huron Blackheart is my favorite chaos Marine.
That said, read the CSM Codex Entries, 6th Rule Book short story, Blood Reaver, Gildar Rift, and Skull Harvest. You have all you need on the Blood Reaver.


----------



## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

hailene said:


> EVEN if Huron was recruiting solely from the materium, how many recruits could he drag from a Hive's gangs? From a feral world? He could scoop up thousands, if not tens of thousands, of ripe potential spacemarines from a single deathworld. Recruits are rarely a problem if you're willing to spread your net wide enough.
> 
> Geneseed is the issue...but if it (or the Astartes it's implanted in) is chilling in the Maelstrom, then they have centuries for it to grow.


Especially if your only criteria are psychosis and violence. I can't imagine the CSM are too worried about mutation, or the failure of the geneseed to implant in a candidate. Any ole warm body would do.

Another angle, although perhaps not too big, could be amassing rouge SMs already in the Eye like those in "Dead Sky, Black Sun" about Uriel Ventris doing his time in the Eye. The book describes him finding around 1-2 dozen Astares hiding out on the Iron Warriors planet. If word got around, it might attract a good 50 - 100 renegade Astares from different points in time to Huron's band... with their potential of replaning their geneseed.


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> Especially if your only criteria are psychosis and violence. I can't imagine the CSM are too worried about mutation, or the failure of the geneseed to implant in a candidate. Any ole warm body would do.
> 
> Another angle, although perhaps not too big, could be amassing rouge SMs already in the Eye like those in "Dead Sky, Black Sun" about Uriel Ventris doing his time in the Eye. The book describes him finding around 1-2 dozen Astares hiding out on the Iron Warriors planet. If word got around, it might attract a good 50 - 100 renegade Astares from different points in time to Huron's band... with their potential of replaning their geneseed.


What really weird is in the Iron Warrior Omnibus, Vaanes call himself a Red Corsair! I was like how? Your not in the Maelstrom, and you do not follow Huron, WTH?!


----------



## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> What really weird is in the Iron Warrior Omnibus, Vaanes call himself a Red Corsair! I was like how? Your not in the Maelstrom, and you do not follow Huron, WTH?!


I believe he mentioned he used to be a Red Corsair; and since they are a mostly loose warband of renegades it is far from impossible for him to have been one of them and then leave at some point to pursue his own agenda.

Its also far from impossible for him to have been in the maelstrom at some point, since we know very little about when Vaanes went renegade and how long it has been since then.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus (Aug 4, 2013)

It was also written Pre-Badab re vamp when red corsairs were just a bunch of renegades from various chapters, they crossed out their previous markings and chapter logos with red crosses.


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

darkreever said:


> I believe he mentioned he used to be a Red Corsair; and since they are a mostly loose warband of renegades it is far from impossible for him to have been one of them and then leave at some point to pursue his own agenda.
> 
> Its also far from impossible for him to have been in the maelstrom at some point, since we know very little about when Vaanes went renegade and how long it has been since then.


Thats true.



Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> It was also written Pre-Badab re vamp when red corsairs were just a bunch of renegades from various chapters, they crossed out their previous markings and chapter logos with red crosses.


Thats true as well.


----------



## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> Thats true as well.


If this is true, then my question would be this; have the Red Corsairs always sold themselves as servants of Choas? I remember back a few years (maybe 6-8) that they were more just Renegades; like pirates belonging to no specific faction whatsoever. 

Is that how they were or did that change? Or have they always been Choas oriented?


----------



## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> Is that how they were or did that change? Or have they always been Choas oriented?


Scanning through the Imperial Armours that cover the Badab War, it doesn't appear they worshiped Chaos. Indeed, for the majority of the conflict the worlds the Astral Claws governed kept faithful to the Emperor.

Towards the end of the war, Huron did eventually renounce the Emperor, though there seemed to be no overt sign of Chaos worship even at this point.

I'd hazard sometime after fleeing to the Maelstrom, did the Astral Claws finally fall to Chaos.


----------



## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

hailene said:


> Scanning through the Imperial Armours that cover the Badab War, it doesn't appear they worshiped Chaos. Indeed, for the majority of the conflict the worlds the Astral Claws governed kept faithful to the Emperor.
> 
> Towards the end of the war, Huron did eventually renounce the Emperor, though there seemed to be no overt sign of Chaos worship even at this point.
> 
> I'd hazard sometime after fleeing to the Maelstrom, did the Astral Claws finally fall to Chaos.


So if this is all true Hailene are there any credible sources that state when the corsairs and Huron actually turned Choas worhsippers? It clearly displays in the recent short novel, "The Tyrant's Chamion," that Huron is being kept alive by machina that is Choas oriented. The "Maze," the three warriors also fight through is a realm of Choas, and each Champon represents an aspect of Choas. 

Anyone got this answer, I really cannot find it around????


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

hailene said:


> I'd hazard sometime after fleeing to the Maelstrom, did the Astral Claws finally fall to Chaos.


Yeah it was after the whole melta gun to the face incident that he turned, his options were: Don't swear allegiance and die or turn to Chaos and live. He already hated the Imperium after what 4 years? of war so it wasn't a hard choice. It was only at the very end that he turned away from the Emperor as you said, the war started because of conflict with the Administration rather a crisis of faith regarding the big E. The IA books on it make this quite clear, at no point in them do they say his turn to Chaos happened prior to the Fall of Badab, they only mention that the most die hard AC's showed no signs of allegiance to the Imperium on their armor.


----------



## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Jacobite said:


> Don't swear allegiance and die or turn to Chaos and live.


I'm not sure if it came down to that. In the Codex it says Huron recovered after his injuries during the Fall of Badab and _his followers_ hailed it as a dark miracle...

But in _Blood Reaver_ we get some narration from an apothecary that helped Huron recover from those injuries. It seemed like some good old fashioned bionics, surgery, and will-power that allowed Huron to survive.



Jacobite said:


> He already hated the Imperium after what 4 years?


Less than 2 years. He spat on his oaths to the Emperor in 311.911 M.41 and the Fall of Badab happened in 118.913 M.41.



emporershand89 said:


> So if this is all true Hailene are there any credible sources that state when the corsairs and Huron actually turned Choas worhsippers?


Sometime after the Fall of Badab (913m.41) and before the Fall of Vilamus (999.m41) without a doubt.

I'd assume earlier. I'll look for a specific source.


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Could be either or really, what is certain is that it was Post Badab Fall. 

I would argue that there is a difference between hating (or at least not liking the way it's run and wanting to see it fall) the Imperium but still loving the Emperor and following him and hating the Imperium and falling to Chaos. An entire sect of the Inquisition follows the former way of thinking actually but is still 100% loyal to the Emperor (Recongregators). 200 years sounds a long time to make the decision to turn his back on the Emperor and turn to Chaos, what source does it say that in? In the IA books it makes specific mention of at the Fall of Badab all outward symbols of loyalty to the Imperium by the Astral Claws as an organization was gone.


----------



## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

(I made a mistake and forgot to quote the YEARS...I gave the year fraction and the millennium, whoops! I edited my previous post.)



Jacobite said:


> I would argue that there is a difference between hating (or at least not liking the way it's run and wanting to see it fall) the Imperium but still loving the Emperor and following him and hating the Imperium and falling to Chaos.


I agree as well. Huron turns his back on EVERYTHING the Imperium represents in 911.

I don't figure he begins Chaos worship until after the Fall of Badab when he begins chilling in the Maelstrom...which is at least a couple more years.


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

hailene said:


> I agree as well. Huron turns his back on EVERYTHING the Imperium represents in 911.


You sure on that? From my reading of the IA books on the BW I would say it wasn't untill the end of the war that he went "fuck all you pricks", I was under the impression that at the start of the war till up until about the time he did the dirty to the Salamanders and Executioners (who subsequently went wrong and attacked both sides) that he was simply using some rather ah shall we say strong negoitation tactics to convince the Administration that he should be allowed to continue building his forces (because that was always going to work out well as a negotiating tactic).


----------



## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Very much sure. Check out page 31 of IA 10. He describes the Imperium of Man as a "Bankrupt, rotting carcass, fit only for the grave..." He then orders to remove all "signs and symbols of Imperial authority, culture and creed were cast down in a firestorm of iconoclasm, and the mass executions on Badab Primaris of clerics and functionaries were reported to last for many weeks without pause." 

Pretty big middle finger, I think.


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Ah yes I stand corrected, you're right that is a very big middle finger. But yeah as we are both saying no mention of chaos worship untill after the fall. During the war he was just a very arrogant bastard.


----------



## COMPNOR (Apr 21, 2010)

hailene said:


> I'm not sure if it came down to that. In the Codex it says Huron recovered after his injuries during the Fall of Badab and _his followers_ hailed it as a dark miracle...
> 
> *But in Blood Reaver we get some narration from an apothecary that helped Huron recover from those injuries. It seemed like some good old fashioned bionics, surgery, and will-power that allowed Huron to survive.*
> 
> ...


In "Bitter End" it tells that the Apothecaries could repair the physical damage, and that was all. And that he must have made some pact to have survived, but it was never spoken of.



> There had been many deals made in those few days when he had hovered in the grey mists that lingered between life and death. His body had been left all but useless in the wake of the Star Phantoms' assault on the Palace of Thorns...


So whenever that occurred I guess is when his "worshiping" began. But from all the stories I've read, "worshiping" seems too strong of a word for Huron. He seems more an opportunist (which "Bitter End" seems to reinforce IMO) and uses Chaos as he would a sword, bolt pistol, or army of fallen Marines. While he does have to keep Chaos happy, it strikes me more as a business relationship.


----------

