# Sisters of battle



## Sexxy Camera

Hi everyone! Its been a while since I posted last, and I thought I would drop a small update on what I know. 

Anyway, here goes:

On the HQ side we are getting a re-sculpt of the Arch-Confessor in finecast, and finecast versions of everyones favorite angel. There is a new finecast cannonness model that comes with several hand options. As mentioned before there is a mini box of a priest in plastic. There are also four new HQ choices, all in finecast. I did not get to see them put together, only on the sprue, so their poses and overall how good they look is hard to tell. One was of some sort of priest guy with a massive ornate chainsaw sword (The chainsaw blade goes down both sides). Another one was a sister (Cannonness?) with a jump pack and a respirator as well as two flammer pistols. The model is quiet tall as she has some sort of robe thing the goes down to the base, holding her aloft. I personally think long robes make no sense when you are using a jetpack, but hey, maybe its fireproof. It is the future after all. The last one is a sister/cannonness in a casual pose with a combimelta. 

The sisters repenta are getting re-sculpted (and are less nekkid though still not armored), but will be finecast, not plastic. Apparently repenting also requires you to shave your head. 

There will be a total of three new plastic boxes with which I am told the player can make seven possible units out of for the infantry types. 

The penitent engine box also apparently makes two different units, though I suppose they will both be large walking murder machines. One is a large murder machine that is really good at melta/flaming things but can also chop stuff up, the other is really good at chopping stuff up, but can also flammer/melta things. 

The rhino kit makes the four sisters rhino based vehicles. Well, five if you count the rhino itself I suppose. 

Oh, sisters are getting plasma guns and plasma cannons, and so is one of their tanks. Well, the cannon. 

Thats all for now. Sorry its not to much new stuff, and sorry if someone already posted this stuff. Otherwise, enjoy.


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## Zion

Sexxy Camera said:


> Hi everyone! Its been a while since I posted last, and I thought I would drop a small update on what I know.
> 
> Anyway, here goes:
> 
> On the HQ side we are getting a re-sculpt of the Arch-Confessor in finecast, and finecast versions of everyones favorite angel. There is a new finecast cannonness model that comes with several hand options. As mentioned before there is a mini box of a priest in plastic. There are also four new HQ choices, all in finecast. I did not get to see them put together, only on the sprue, so their poses and overall how good they look is hard to tell. One was of some sort of priest guy with a massive ornate chainsaw sword (The chainsaw blade goes down both sides). Another one was a sister (Cannonness?) with a jump pack and a respirator as well as two flammer pistols. The model is quiet tall as she has some sort of robe thing the goes down to the base, holding her aloft. I personally think long robes make no sense when you are using a jetpack, but hey, maybe its fireproof. It is the future after all. The last one is a sister/cannonness in a casual pose with a combimelta.
> 
> The sisters repenta are getting re-sculpted (and are less nekkid though still not armored), but will be finecast, not plastic. Apparently repenting also requires you to shave your head. _Well that's what happens in the fluff at least, so yeah._
> 
> There will be a total of three new plastic boxes with which I am told the player can make seven possible units out of for the infantry types.
> 
> The penitent engine box also apparently makes two different units, though I suppose they will both be large walking murder machines. One is a large murder machine that is really good at melta/flaming things but can also chop stuff up, the other is really good at chopping stuff up, but can also flammer/melta things. _So basically they're both essentially the same thing but one will get a bonus to close combat and the other will get a bonus to shooting? Or somehting?_
> 
> The rhino kit makes the four sisters rhino based vehicles. Well, five if you count the rhino itself I suppose. _Counting the Rhino, Immolator (which has 3 Varients) and the Exorcist (which uses a Rhino Chassis), that means 2 more new vehicles? _
> 
> Oh, sisters are getting plasma guns and plasma cannons, and so is one of their tanks. Well, the cannon. _While I don't object to this idea since plasma does cause the target to violently burst into flames and plasma pistols are already a think the army gets, I'm sure some will cry "fluff rape" anyways._
> 
> Thats all for now. Sorry its not to much new stuff, and sorry if someone already posted this stuff. Otherwise, enjoy.


While I want to assume these are true, I'm not going to jump the gun on Sisters rumors. I'm a bit on the skeptical side after last time we got a bunch of these that failed to pan out. Nothing personal.


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## Sexxy Camera

Several new vehicles actually. I just could not tell what some were supposed to be because they were still on the sprue. So I dont want to speculate.

EDIT: I mean vehicles other then the rhino with some stuff on top type vehicles. They have the rhino set, the sinner killer robot set, and two other sets. That I know of.


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## spanner94ezekiel

Could you hint at your source. It's not that I don't trust you or anything, but there has been a lot of bullshit going round, e.g. with Tau.


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## Arcane

THANK THE EMPEROR

6th edition almost had me losing the faith and finally shelving my Sisters for good. Any word on a rough release time? 2012,13,14?


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## Azezel

Sexxy Camera said:


> Hi everyone! Its been a while since I posted last, and I thought I would drop a small update on what I know.


You again...

As I said in April last year:



Azezel said:


> Sexxy Camera is firmly filed under 'liar until proven otherwise'*
> 
> *If Sexxy Camera's current crop of rumours are proven true, I will hang on his or her every word from there on.


The fact that none of the stuff you talked about the last two times you popped up has surfaced in any form doesn't lend you much credence.



Sexxy Camera said:


> Anyway, here goes:
> 
> On the HQ side we are getting a re-sculpt of the Arch-Confessor in finecast, and finecast versions of everyones favorite angel.
> 
> I doubt GW will Finecast either model any time soon, but it's plausible enough that anyone could 'predict' it on the off chance it does happen and they are 'proven right'.
> 
> There is a new finecast cannonness model that comes with several hand options. As mentioned before there is a mini box of a priest in plastic.
> 
> If either of these things happen without a new, real, codex, I'll eat my house.
> 
> There are also four new HQ choices, all in finecast. I did not get to see them put together, only on the sprue, so their poses and overall how good they look is hard to tell.
> 
> If you saw the spruse, that means you work in the studio at GW and live in or around Notts. They way you type makes me think you're a yank, so that's unlikely. If you do work at GW's HQ, you sure as hell wouldn't be posting stuff like this.
> 
> One was of some sort of priest guy with a massive ornate chainsaw sword (The chainsaw blade goes down both sides). Another one was a sister (Cannonness?) with a jump pack and a respirator as well as two flammer pistols.
> 
> If you were working in the studio, odds are you'd know what an Eviscerator is, and you'd know that the Canoness _cannot have a Jump Pack_. (You may even know how to spell 'canoness'.)
> 
> The model is quiet tall as she has some sort of robe thing the goes down to the base, holding her aloft. I personally think long robes make no sense when you are using a jetpack, but hey, maybe its fireproof. It is the future after all. The last one is a sister/cannonness in a casual pose with a combimelta.
> 
> The sisters repenta are getting re-sculpted (and are less nekkid though still not armored), but will be finecast, not plastic. Apparently repenting also requires you to shave your head.
> 
> I believe that the age of metal/finecast troops is over. I cannot see GW making a _new_ unit kit finecast.
> 
> There will be a total of three new plastic boxes with which I am told the player can make seven possible units out of for the infantry types.
> 
> The penitent engine box also apparently makes two different units, though I suppose they will both be large walking murder machines. One is a large murder machine that is really good at melta/flaming things but can also chop stuff up, the other is really good at chopping stuff up, but can also flammer/melta things.
> 
> Again, it's a plausible enough prediction that it might happen and you can claim it as a valid prediction, it is in fact, a guess.
> 
> The rhino kit makes the four sisters rhino based vehicles. Well, five if you count the rhino itself I suppose.
> 
> Oh, sisters are getting plasma guns and plasma cannons, and so is one of their tanks. Well, the cannon.
> 
> Thats all for now. Sorry its not to much new stuff, and sorry if someone already posted this stuff. Otherwise, enjoy.


No-one already posted these things because you made them up.

Incidentally - folks may remember a highly successful troll called Ghost21 - I long, long ago said I doubted his veracity because he had very poor spelling and grammar. I'm calling the same thing here.


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## Sexxy Camera

I am a Yank! I have been to England several times, but never to the office of games workshop, no. 

But when you buy your new sisters models, whenever they come out (I don't know when that will be, no), look at the copywrite stamp. They have been done for a while now. Boxes of little sisters are someone, probably in England I imagine, waiting to be released. I am sure lots of other people, besides myself, have seen them.


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## Zion

Sexxy Camera said:


> I am a Yank! I have been to England several times, but never to the office of games workshop, no.
> 
> But when you buy your new sisters models, whenever they come out (I don't know when that will be, no), look at the copywrite stamp. They have been done for a while now. Boxes of little sisters are someone, probably in England I imagine, waiting to be released. I am sure lots of other people, besides myself, have seen them.


The only Sisters on sale at the moment come out in metal and have a copyright championship from quite a while ago. So I'd love to know what copyright date you're talking about. I've yet to see anything that isn't an Immolator in plastic for the Sisters.


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## Arcane

Sexxy Camera said:


> ... never to the office of games workshop, no.
> I am sure lots of other people, besides myself, have seen them.


So where did you see them at? And no, no one else has seen them, hows Sasquatch doing btw? I smell bullshit. 



Zion said:


> The only Sisters on sale at the moment come out in metal and have a copywrite championship from quite a while ago. So I'd love to know what copywrite date you're talking about. I've yet to see anything that isn't an Immolator in plastic for the Sisters.


They are saying that when you get the new ones you will see the date is older, like 2010 or 11 since they (the new models) have been done for a while now.


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## Sexxy Camera

Zion, I mean when they are released, obviously. 

2011 for the first wave stuff. From what I understand pretty much every model in the current range will replaced and updated within one year of their release, with every possible option in the codex available. Apparently there is a bunch of new stuff. No I have not seen all of it, just what I mentioned above.


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## Svartmetall

'copyright'

Apart from the fact that I work at GW and that not one _single_ thing you've said is borne out by actual facts, you make a good point.


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## Arcane

Alright, so you are quoting someone else, if you had mentioned that you're points wouldn't have been as suspect. 

It's common knowledge many of the models are "finished" but have yet to be released due to casting issues. 

While I really want to believe what you are saying, none of this information is really new. The only parts that hint at something new are vague, "Chainsaw sword" etc, Azezel is right that you've pretty much taken what was already known and sprinkled in vague, general info which is up to the reader to interpret. A similar method is scamming in is called "cold reading". 

I don't think you're lying but your post is definitely suspect.


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## Azezel

Sexxy Camera said:


> I am a Yank!


Damn, I'm good.



Sexxy Camera said:


> But when you buy your new sisters models, whenever they come out (I don't know when that will be, no), look at the copywrite stamp. They have been done for a while now. Boxes of little sisters are someone, probably in England I imagine, waiting to be released. I am sure lots of other people, besides myself, have seen them.


Anyhow, we all know that the plastic Daemon Prince was knocking around for yonks before it ever got released, and those remade Craftworld Eldar Jetbikes have still yet to make it into shops.

Note the phrase '_we all know_' - as in, anybody who knows how GW operate knows that it's possible for a kit to exist but not be released.

I could create equally believable rumours... In fact, I'm pretty sure I could do better. I can spell and punctuate my posts correctly, and I wouldn't claim that the tools used for injection moulding are the cheapest part of producing a kit.


Tell you what, old man, give us a rumour about the sixth edition starter kit - describe, say, the two HQ/Warlord/whatever models. Should be easy for someone with such powers of prognostication, and we'll all know how accurate you were by the end of the summer.

Having been vindicated, you'll find critics like your humble interlocutor will very rapidly change their tune.


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## Mokuren

Pffft, falling for this one again?

SoB's next update is scheduled for next month guys, I know because my fantasource which I can't name but is always right and never ever lies says so.

... Seriously thought, we all know the truth: Sisters of Battle will get a proper, updated codex with finally new and fresh troops right before 13th edition in 2078.

Except that one month before release GW will run a popularity contest to see what troops people would want to see in plastic 10-strong boxes, 99% will vote SoB, and GW will squat them out of spite because they didn't all vote for ULTRAMARINES. So yeah.


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## Zion

Svartmetall said:


> 'copyright'
> 
> Apart from the fact that I work at GW and that not one _single_ thing you've said is borne out by actual facts, you make a good point.


Thanks. I always screw spelling that up.

Things that are obvious for when Sisters get an update:

1. Models will be redone. The character/HQ models will likely come out in Finecast.

2. The basic models will be able to be the base for most of the army. Just like Space Marines, Sisters have a fairly consistent design and Sisters with Bolters are in every FOC so it's no long shot to assume that most of the army will be based around them. And with the movement away from metal and previous confirmations that the basic Sisters were in progress to be in plastic, the models will of course be in plastic.

3. New units and vehicles will be interested. Right now the Sisters of Battle codex is smaller than every other codex out there in terms of unit selection, wargear and models for people to buy. GW will of course expand the range to make more money otherwise no one would need to buy anything.

4. The models will have copyright dates from long before their release. The models have to be designed, successfully test cast, double checked, sent into full production and stocked up for mass release. Because of this there is always a copyright date at least a year prior to the model's release.

5. Options and fluff will likely change. Fluff is malleable in GW's eyes and they're more than willing to adjust things to fit new ideas than set it in stone and keep them from being able to do new things. Be it adding plasma or deciding that Sisters are actually latent psykers or whatever, we can count on the fluff changing.

6. Bolters, Chainswords, Eviscerators, Melta and Flamers will continue to be an important part of the army and will be part of the models and everything else.

7. No matter what GW does with the army someone will get upset about what they've done.

8. No matter when the Sisters get released someone will either claim that: Sisters didn't deserve to get updated next or It took too long and no one plays Sisters anymore so they should have gotten squatted.

EDIT: Just wanted to note that these aren't rumors, but logical deductions based on what we can confirm with what usually happens, and how the internet reacts to anything.


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## Sexxy Camera

> not ^ azzy.

Anyway I think I am pretty specific about what various models and kits looked like, where I can be, in both my posts, as opposed to most other 'rumor posters' who, I agree, post very very vague hints that could go a lot of ways. But eh.


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## Varakir

Zion said:


> Things that are obvious for when Sisters get an update:


9. I will finally buy some SOB's. 

Following the SOB rumour mill is so infuriating


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## Zion

Sexxy Camera said:


> > not ^ azzy.


I don't even know what that means. Is that some kind of code? Where can I send in for a decoder ring?



Varakir said:


> 9. I will finally buy some SOB's.
> 
> Following the SOB rumour mill is so infuriating


Being a player is even worse. I love the way the Sisters read in their fluff and their being an army of ordinary women who kick ass and take names (usually so they can put them on your tombstone) despite having no special powers, just faith so powerful that they're able to do the impossible in the name of the Emperor.

But while you enjoy your army you get people telling you that you're wrong to enjoy the army, that the army is going to get squatted, that no one likes the army, and generally that GW doesn't care about the army and is just stringing you alone while they steal your money.

To be honest the internet is a big part of why I'm looking at shelving my Sisters for now, they just make it so depressing to deal with them that it's easier to shelve them than deal with all the complaints.


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## davespil

The way I look at is in 5th edition they really fleshed out a lot of the armies. Adding a bunch of units of every type to the FOC. Necrons, nids, BA, SW, Marines, Orcs (counts as 5th, right?). So they will continue to do that to Eldar, Chaos, DA, BT, Tau, and Demons. Eventually they'll finish every army and have to flesh out the SoB to make more money, no?\

But I don't believe sexy camera at all.


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## Azezel

Sexxy Camera said:


> > not ^ azzy.


I can't read your crazy Moon language!


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## Arcane

Zion said:


> To be honest the internet is a big part of why I'm looking at shelving my Sisters for now, they just make it so depressing to deal with them that it's easier to shelve them than deal with all the complaints.


I really do feel bad for all my negativity I spread here. However, I'm sure you can understand being a SoB player yourself. The WD codex nerfed/deleted a lot of our units from the old WH book, but gave us some shiny new units, then 6th ed comes out and even those new ones get nerfed (FNP, Power weapons, no skyfire, anyone can regroup now not just SoB troops, no special deny the witch saves). So a lot of it -is- justified. 

At least we know, on that special day when the new codex arrives, all of us who have stuck in there can share a drink and a smile. :drinks:


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## Zion

Arcane said:


> I really do feel bad for all my negativity I spread here. However, I'm sure you can understand being a SoB player yourself. The WD codex nerfed/deleted a lot of our units from the old WH book, but gave us some shiny new units, then 6th ed comes out and even those new ones get nerfed (FNP, Power weapons, no skyfire, anyone can regroup now not just SoB troops, no special deny the witch saves). So a lot of it -is- justified.
> 
> At least we know, on that special day when the new codex arrives, all of us who have stuck in there can share a drink and a smile. :drinks:


S5 Concussive Maces seem like a nice thing that we got. Sure there is a lot we DIDN'T get, but I honestly wasn't too worried about it. The more they throw at us -now- with this WD, the longer I think this book is going to be around. 

And as a perk, everyone who had an allied Sisters army has a valid army again (well mostly, because I'm pretty sure some of the rules changed). It's not much, but it's better than a special rule called "Blood of the Faithful" in the main book, right?


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## Grogbart

Enduring years of hardship and mockery, false prophesies, awaiting the "promised time"...

I knew Sisters of Battle were all about being faithful when I started them, but I wasn't aware they'd turn out that much of a biblical challenge off the board.

More than asking myself, how I stayed sane still playing Sisters, I question myself IF I stayed sane, nowadays!?

But no matter how down I am at times, I can't help believing the Sister of Battle will get a release someday!
I'm not too sure about plastic Sisters though, because, who knows, by the time Sisters get a new Troop-box, maybe mold-injectable wood will have replaced plastic as the material of choice?


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## Bindi Baji

As far as i'm aware no sob's are due until next year at least and are liable to be released whenever the inquisition book/expansion/thing/quiche makes an appearance.


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## MadCowCrazy

Come on guys, he is posting SoB rumours. Be happy someone is posting something at all about them...
I'm sure Jervis brought the sprues to a bar somewhere to get feedback from the other customers, after all, that's the sensible thing to do right?

SoB should have been released years ago.. it's just that GW hates women...


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## Azezel

Sakura_ninja said:


> I heard matt ward is doing sisters,


No, you misheard.

Mat Ward is doing Sisters _in_.


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## bobahoff

Nah GW are waiting until all the SoB players get rid of their armies by slowly nerfing them until they are totally useless, then when there are no players left they will rerelease them as an army that carves through grey knights as if they were IG, instantly attracting every 12 year old in the country while you are forced to watch through teary eyes and think
They used to be awesome but now they are crap and OP


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## Mokuren

Azezel said:


> No, you misheard.
> 
> Mat Ward is doing Sisters _in_.


Ever since the WDdex release I've been expecting this any day, especially after all the fun times various internet trolls have had teasing everyone with this rumoured SoB release that never happened.

No, I'm not believing "Something happened last minute and they had to go for a temporary WD solution but don't worry it's still totally coming!" anymore, after the latest 6th ed FAQ it's even more clear than before that there is a list of armies GW cares about and a list they don't give half a rotten damn and would shelf if they still didn't somehow earn ludicrous profits thanks to them.

If this was a SPACE MARINE chapter it would've come out at all costs, even if it meant postponing a WD for whatever reason.


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## Zion

Sakura_ninja said:


> I heard matt ward is doing sisters, apparently as well if you sacrifice your whole army after deployment (which you must do on a 2+ re-rolling any 1's) you gain an army of grey knights replacing them and equal to the points of your sisters that all have the mark of khorne for free and led by a daemon prince called Draigo, with stats 10 across the board and a 2++ re roll armour/invuns save.
> 
> You also gain a free 1000pts force of ultratards who are drawn naturally to the whispers of chaos that the grey knights obviously have, your opponent must also half his points of his army, but if your opponent is another grey knight you must join armies to beat on children in the store and table them.





Azezel said:


> No, you misheard.
> 
> Mat Ward is doing Sisters _in_.





bobahoff said:


> Nah GW are waiting until all the SoB players get rid of their armies by slowly nerfing them until they are totally useless, then when there are no players left they will rerelease them as an army that carves through grey knights as if they were IG, instantly attracting every 12 year old in the country while you are forced to watch through teary eyes and think
> They used to be awesome but now they are crap and OP


All great examples why I think the community is poisoning the well, and at least killing my motivation to play an army we like. 

Fun fact: The Sisters of Battle are featured in the 6th Edition Rulebook. Like a lot of armies we get a large picture that is one of the previous codex covers (the 2nd Edition cover if you're wondering), a page detailing the army (yes a whole page. That's on par with what a good portion of what the other armies got, like Tau) and then two pages showing of a selection of the armies models.

Would anyone like to guess what the "awesome Grey Knights" get? Their fluff is a small section under "Space Marines" (it's a paragraph) and then they get the 2 model pages (like everyone else basically does). The Sisters fared better than Grey Knights (again) in terms of amount of fluff and attention in the actual rulebook.

Anyways I'm so glad we keep it _positive_ around here concerning the fate of people's armies. It's not like it's depressing to read other people's posts mocking the army, mocking it's fate and generally being either depressing or insulting.


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## normtheunsavoury

I'm generally happy to see Mr. Ward getting his arse chewed on forums and willing to enjoy the nerd rage he so happily provokes but, honestly, WTF has he got to do with SOB? 

As things stand we have no idea whether there is a new Dex on the horizon yet or who's writing it. 

So please, can we keep the Ward hate out of this and try and restrict it to threads where it has some degree of relevance?


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## Zion

Sakura_ninja said:


> Some people really should take things less personally haha (you yanks REALLY need to develop a sense of humour, its actually gone beyond a joke now ironically), especially when none of the posts are remotely serious and are talking about toys, allot of people would love to see a decent codex and range of models for the sisters, even none sister players, but your not, matt ward really fucking hates you, not us players, we just hate him because he is a douche and turns everything he touches to shit


I'm not taking it personally. I know you're not attacking -me- but this kind of crap is demoralizing. Who can seriously say they feel like working on something when there is as much negativity directed at them (intended for comedy or not) as the Sisters?

I'm willing to bet that anyone who said yes just now either: (a) hasn't seen the full scope of crap the internet community aims at the Sisters, (b) is lying or (c) is a masochist at heart.

There quite literally is only so crap much you can put up with before everyone's negativity starts dragging you down and I'm sadly reaching my limits.


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## Azezel

Zion said:


> ...Snip...


You make a number of good points, and despite my loathing for Blanche's 2e codex cover (and most of his work, t'be frank) I was pleasantly surprised to see Sisters get a full bit in the 6e book.

However, the fact still remains that GW (or more accurately a small subset of GW's employees and Black Library authors) show ill-disguised contempt for the army and, like a dog that has been beaten too often, a lot of use can now only alternate between cringing and snarling impotently.

We are bitter, darkling shells of the men and women we once were, finding pleasure now only in black humour and winning battles against Grey Knights.

Fight it as you will, but it'll happen to you too.


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## Zion

Azezel said:


> You make a number of good points, and despite my loathing for Blanche's 2e codex cover (and most of his work, t'be frank) I was pleasantly surprised to see Sisters get a full bit in the 6e book.
> 
> However, the fact still remains that GW (or more accurately a small subset of GW's employees and Black Library authors) show ill-disguised contempt for the army and, like a dog that has been beaten too often, a lot of use can now only alternate between cringing and snarling impotently.
> 
> We are bitter, darkling shells of the men and women we once were, finding pleasure now only in black humour and winning battles against Grey Knights.
> 
> Fight it as you will, but it'll happen to you too.


My problem with it all is that the _community_ is doing it to me faster than GW and the Black Library ever could. As a community we should supporting each other, not kicking the chair out from under ourselves. Instead we tell people to only play Space Marines, that they need to build Army X to win, and then we bitch that game balance is broken, there is too much of Army X running around and no one plays anything else BUT Marines. And no one stops to think and go "oh yeah, we said to do that."

YES there will always be cheese-mongering powergamers. But we can choose to avoid them, ignore them or play an all round better game and CRUSH them that way. But instead we try to be like them and wonder why the game stops being fun (here's a hint = only playing armies with the intent to win is less fun that playing an army you enjoy for fun). 



Sakura_ninja said:


> People defeating grey knights?...ward will retcon that


Oh for fuck's sake give it a rest already. It's not funny. It's not even clever. It's honestly pathetic how you cling onto making fun of Ward. You make me think of those third grade boys who like someone but don't know how to tell them so they pick on them instead. With how much attention you put on Ward I'd almost be willing to believe that you've got some kind of crush on the man and his work but don't want to be seen as some kind of cheese mongering moron so you trying to over compensate by making fun of him every chance you get.


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## mcmuffin

Right, the Ward Hate is about 4 years old at this stage, can we wrap it up and maybe have a mature discussion?


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## Grogbart

It's one depressing thing to see GW not care about Sisters.

The next depressing thing is all that "Be happy about..." babble, concerning things that should be normal.

But what I find most depressing of all, is that with all the complaint about what's wrong or lacking with our army, there's surprisingly little support for those who put in the effort trying to produce an alternative.
There are currently three proposed SoB projects on the first page of the homebrew section alone and apart form the original writers I would have expected more than just two other people to support them, or at least give some feedback. Especially among those here, who so frequently like to tell us, how fed up and anxious they are!

So yes, I'm very depressed and I'm sorry if I couldn't avoid depressing others by stating so.

edit: It's also very depressing needing as long to write a post, as its takes the threat to progress more than an entire page!!!


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## Necrosis

The reason that sister of battle players make fun of sisters of battle is because of the 40k saying: "Hope is the first step on the road of disappointment."


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## SilverTabby

Sexxy Camera said:


> I am a Yank! I have been to England several times, but never to the office of games workshop, no.
> 
> But when you buy your new sisters models, whenever they come out (I don't know when that will be, no), look at the copywrite stamp. They have been done for a while now. Boxes of little sisters are someone, probably in England I imagine, waiting to be released. I am sure lots of other people, besides myself, have seen them.


You are a yank. One who has never been to GW head office. And yet you claim to have seen the sprues, that they would be keeping under wraps at GWHQ, in the secure Studio.

If your post is claiming as it implies, that you have seen them, you are I'm afraid, lying. I can say that with 100% confidence.

If you are claiming that you are quoting someone elses words, yet have not been to GWHQ so your chances of actually having met someone with Studio access to see these things, your chances of not lying only drop to 99% I'm afraid.

If you work at GW US HQ, then you are breaking contract by posting, will only be quoting secondhand (and whoever told you should be fired for not knowing the correct terminology) and your chances of telling the truth are still only at 50% as very few below senior management there come to HQ UK, and fewer get Studio tours, and even less then tell their staff about it. No production would be happening over there unless the release was in the next 3 months, and even then unless you worked there (see above) you wouldn't have seen them.

So, much as I hate to debunk it, the first post is rubbish. Yes, there are bits that can be logical deductions on potential future releases, but that's all. 

--------------------

I on the other hand, am about to embark on some playtesting. Some of the wtf? units in the WDDex now make a lot more sense now 6th is out, and I'll be seeing what I can do with it. I haven't tried the homebrews here, because I *like* the current list and have given my reasons for doing so many times, in many threads full of people complaining. 

I am due a game with someone I used to work with in a few weeks (yes. I'll be using my Sisters), I'll ask about a PDF version of the army list. He won't tell me anything else, because he's not allowed to. Hence why I *know* they haven't been telling random strangers things and showing them sprues...


----------



## Arcane

SilverTabby said:


> I am due a game with someone I used to work with in a few weeks (yes. I'll be using my Sisters), I'll ask about a PDF version of the army list. He won't tell me anything else, because he's not allowed to. Hence why I *know* they haven't been telling random strangers things and showing them sprues...


Please tell Mat Ward when you see him not to _completely_ kill off the rest of the Sisters in the next book he writes. 

And to the rest of you, what is this all about supporting a SoB alternative? -What- alternative? Some homebrew book some dude writes from his basement? So where am I supposed to play said codex? At a GW store, or my FLGS? Neither stores are going to let me play it there, so how about with just a couple friends right? FFS I might as well just go play some D&D, modern d20 or Pathfinder if I'm just making up rules off hand with a buddy. Is it so bad that I want to play competently with the rest of the kids with an army I spent hundreds of dollars on?

The reason you use a codex is because whether or not you like a part of it, it is Official and complete. You play by those rules, like them or not, your opponent does the same, for an "even" playing field and that is what makes a fun game you can play with anyone.

As for the Ward hate; I don't hate the guy, I'm sure he is really cool and I would enjoy meeting him and sharing a pint. But as far as his writing, it's ridiculous and as one of the few people who actually has the power to help the SoB become something fun and interesting he instead writes droll crap about them getting killed off at every encounter, being killed by GK for a blood sacrifice and needing the help of SM to accomplish anything on a grand level. In both fluff, rules and models they are treated like the 40k step children and Ward has done nothing but fulfill that role to completion.


----------



## Azezel

Arcane said:


> Please tell Mat Ward when you see him not to _completely_ kill off the rest of the Sisters in the next book he writes.
> 
> And to the rest of you, what is this all about supporting a SoB alternative? -What- alternative? Some homebrew book some dude writes from his basement? So where am I supposed to play said codex? At a GW store, or my FLGS? Neither stores are going to let me play it there, so how about with just a couple friends right? FFS I might as well just go play some D&D, modern d20 or Pathfinder if I'm just making up rules off hand with a buddy.


This - exactly this.

I don't read, comment on or support homebrew codices because they are pointless. I doubt one in a hundred ever seems a game outside of playtesting, I doubt one in ten ever gets playtested.



Arcane said:


> As for the Ward hate; I don't hate the guy, I'm sure he is really cool and I would enjoy meeting him and sharing a pint.


Also this. One never sees 'I met Mat Ward and he was a wanker.' It's always 'I met Mat Ward and he was a cool guy'.

He strikes me as a cool guy, and more often than not he produces a balanced set of rules. Doesn't mean we're not allowed to call him out when he messes up. He's an adult, it goes with the territory, you do bad, you get called on it.


----------



## mcmuffin

Azezel said:


> This - exactly this.
> 
> 
> 
> He strikes me as a cool guy, and more often than not he produces a balanced set of rules. Doesn't mean we're not allowed to call him out when he messes up. He's an adult, it goes with the territory, you do bad, you get called on it.


Adults do not blame other adults for things that have nothing to do with them, like the Ward Hate in this thread. give it a rest and talk about SoB rumours


----------



## Arcane

mcmuffin said:


> Adults do not blame other adults for things that have nothing to do with them, like the Ward Hate in this thread. give it a rest and talk about SoB rumours


There are no new SoB rumours and haven't been for at least 5 years besides the random "I saw a model at the studio and dur dur dur dur" and when they ninja'ed the WD dex on us. 

How does SoB have nothing to do with him since he (re)wrote their fluff, wrote on them in other codex (GK bloodbath) and is one of the chief writers for GW?


----------



## mcmuffin

Arcane said:


> There are no new SoB rumours and haven't been for at least 5 years besides the random "I saw a model at the studio and dur dur dur dur" and when they ninja'ed the WD dex on us.
> 
> How does SoB have nothing to do with him since he (re)wrote their fluff, wrote on them in other codex (GK bloodbath) and is one of the chief writers for GW?


Is that a legitimate excuse for the "Hurmadurr Mat Ward ruined mah life" bullshit that's going on?

If you have an issue with his fluff, sure, cool, express your opinion like an adult, use reason. You think he is solely responsible for some of the questionable fluff that appears? As opposed to the team of other people working with him on the books?

Anyway, yeah, Sisters, they're far too interesting an army for GW to do away with or ignore, they attract a different demographic which is good for business. I imagine they are trying to do as much of a kick-ass job on them as they did on DE, and all the DE players will tell you it was worth the wait.


----------



## Zion

mcmuffin said:


> I imagine they are trying to do as much of a kick-ass job on them as they did on DE, and all the DE players will tell you it was worth the wait.


That's what I'm hoping for. Sadly due to a disinterest in allying my Sisters and lack of options for handling flyers/flying MCs (seriously, couldn't give at least Exorcists Skyfire as an upgrade?) in the FAQ I'll likely be putting my Sisters on a shelf until then. I'm not abandoning them I just don't like having to ally stuff in just to ensure I can play a tournament without taking dead last due to a lack of options.

Come an update for Sisters I'll be back, and if GW gives us new models I'll be back with a new army to boot! Until then.....I'm looking at the other armies and seeing what strikes my fancy. I hate putting an army aside like this but in all honesty it's hard to be excited for an army that...frankly doesn't perform in the new edition against our new foes.


----------



## Arcane

That's pretty much how I'm feeling Zion. This new edition has just clobbered the hell out of the WD SoB dex.


----------



## Necrosis

How has the new edition hurt the sisters? Yes their is flyers but you can take a fortification to deal with them.


----------



## Zion

Arcane said:


> That's pretty much how I'm feeling Zion. This new edition has just clobbered the hell out of the WD SoB dex.


This is definitely one of those rare moments we agree on something. The local meta around my area has too many fliers and too many flying monstrous creatures to NOT force me to take allies or fortifications just to keep up.

I was definitely caught up in "OH! SHINY!" to notice that it happened right away, it's only after I sat down and remembered how many flyers I saw today that I realized my army was hosed.



Necrosis said:


> How has the new edition hurt the sisters? Yes their is flyers but you can take a fortification to deal with them.


You can take -a- Fortification to deal with them. Most of the lists in my area have several, and I'll likely lose the fortification before then (after all, buildings can be broken in this edition).

I'm not feeling taking allies with my Sisters. I've spent a lot of time working on what I collected and what I like playing in a list to go and have to purchase parts of a second army just to make them competitive. I like playing the Sisters pure. Just what's in the codex and proving Marines wrong. Now a even something as simple as Daemon Prince with Wings can straight up ruin my day.

Combine this with the negative crap about Sisters that I've been reading for several months and a desire to own vehicles that aren't Rhinos means I'm actually looking at some new options for what to play. I'll probably find something to get excited about again, but for the moment I'm sad to see that an army I really cared about has moved squarely to the bottom rung in terms of ability in my local area.


----------



## SilverTabby

I'm going to start a list-building thread in the WH section. I would appreciate some input from those players here who feel things are lacking in 6Th in our list...


----------



## Arcane

Necrosis said:


> How has the new edition hurt the sisters? Yes their is flyers but you can take a fortification to deal with them.


While 6th edition has nerfed many lists of most armies, those armies can adapt and form new lists and use the new things brought by 5th to make viable strategies. SoB have only one or two viable lists with slight variation, making adaptation almost impossible for them due to the very very small codex and receive few of the new 6th ed perks to help. 

-No access to the new Psychic powers (ok, so several armies also don't, but they were designed with no psykers in mind). All of the existing SoB units are based on a design from when the codex was 3 times as large and contained psykers. 

-Despite long having strong resistance to Psychic powers, SoB have none beyond your normal guardsman although Deny the Witch is introduced for all players. 

-No flyers and little ability to deal with flyers effectively. The Icarus Lascannon with a fortification offers 1 shot a turn (even if used to intercept) and is little protection against 3-9+ flyers on the board. After it's gone, SoB have nothing to combat them. 

-SoB's only dedicated assaulting units, Repentia and Death Cult Assassins had their FnP nerfed to 5+. With a weak Invulnerable save (6++ and 5++ respectively) their longevity in battle is severely diminished. 

-These assault units can no longer assault out of a stationary Rhino, meaning they must walk up the board to be effective assault units (see point above). Jacobus just got shelved. 

-Death Cult Assassins can no longer be used as an answer to Terminators since Power Weapons were nerfed to AP3 and overwatch against their weak 5++, 5FnP means many won't make it into combat. 

-All SoB vehicles have only 3 hull points. No access to stronger vehicles means all SoB vehicles can be glanced to death fairly easily. 

-Vehicles only receive a 5+ cover save from Smoke Launchers. It cannot be stressed enough the dependance of SoB on the survivability of their Rhinos to stay protected and mobile, survivability which has been greatly diminished in 6th. 

-Warlord doesn't really benefit an army whose strongest HQ, Celestine, is T3 and isn't immune to instant death. Challenges from enemy Warlords will be exceedingly difficult to handle. Celestine does benifit from the Power Weapon nerf, having a 2+ armor save, but is the only model in the entire army to have such. 

-Many units were given SoB specific abilities once exclusive to the SoB army such as Dual Pistol fire, Regrouping under 25%, and Psychic defense.


----------



## SilverTabby

Well, now we know why the psychic defence was left out: everyone got it instead.

Also, there are maybe 2 other units in the entire game that can gunsling? The rest is limited to sergeants that you have to specifically arm. Putting 2 boltpistols on your jump troops isn't enough, the option to actually arm them like that has to be there.

You use Celestine to take on enemy Warlords? She's so much better at mulching units...


----------



## Majere613

There's a certain amount of 'The sky is falling!' creeping in here. A lot of what is getting described as 'nerfs' is more just things that are now different.

Fair enough, we can't assault out of a stationary Rhino, but neither can anyone else. There aren't all that many Assault Vehicles out there and the new vehicle rules will make people very wary of throwing Land Raiders at the enemy. Pity the Eldar, with transports that are very, very expensive and only have doors at the back.

DCA will not die in droves to Overwatch. It's only BS 1, remember. We do now have to think a bit more about what to attack, however. Sure, FNP is now 5++ but we now get it against Power weapons. If you want a bit more survivability, do what I do and put a few Crusaders in there to go in first (I usually run 4 Crusaders, 5 DCA and Jacobus). In fact, so long as the formation is right, it's now harder to bolter down the DCA since the Crusaders can keep taking hits on their 3++ all day long if they pass them. Heck, put Jacobus in after the DCA, soak some hits on his 4++ and Look Out Sir once he gets wounded.

True, we can't slaughter Terminators with a Conclave any more. Repentia will still do that just fine, though, and now they have +2 Attacks on the charge and we can finally steer them. Anyway, personally I like to shoot the jumped-up gits with Exorcists and meltaguns.

As for anti-flyer duty, my Canoness is smiling. I like to take her with minimum kit along with a full-strength Retributor squad with Heavy Bolters. From now on, she'll be spending most of her time crewing a Quad Gun or Icarus. The Quad is looking most favourable- 4 shots, twin-linked, Bs 5 and probably Rending? Yes please.

There certainly IS plenty to grouse about, in particular the whole psychic thing. I'm very cross the new Adamantine Will SR didn't get Errated onto the Sisters, because we need it. I'm a bit cross that Seraphim got less special, but no-one else does what they do on a unit level, so meh.

As an army, Sisters rely most on rapid fire guns, which got buffed, Flamers, which got buffed, and melta, which got left the hell alone for the most part. Sure, it's going to be challenging to win with them, especially 'pure', but at least we don't have any massively expensive Special Characters who now strike at Initiative 1.. bwaha.


----------



## Necrosis

Arcane said:


> While 6th edition has nerfed many lists of most armies, those armies can adapt and form new lists and use the new things brought by 5th to make viable strategies. SoB have only one or two viable lists with slight variation, making adaptation almost impossible for them due to the very very small codex and receive few of the new 6th ed perks to help.
> 
> -No access to the new Psychic powers (ok, so several armies also don't, but they were designed with no psykers in mind). All of the existing SoB units are based on a design from when the codex was 3 times as large and contained psykers.
> 
> -Despite long having strong resistance to Psychic powers, SoB have none beyond your normal guardsman although Deny the Witch is introduced for all players.
> 
> -No flyers and little ability to deal with flyers effectively. The Icarus Lascannon with a fortification offers 1 shot a turn (even if used to intercept) and is little protection against 3-9+ flyers on the board. After it's gone, SoB have nothing to combat them.


Lots of other armies have this problem to. You can always take some allies to deal with all these problems. Sure it's not a great answer but give gw some time to update all the FAQ properly as they were rush (compare harlquins from the eldar FAQ to the Dark Eldar one).



> -SoB's only dedicated assaulting units, Repentia and Death Cult Assassins had their FnP nerfed to 5+. With a weak Invulnerable save (6++ and 5++ respectively) their longevity in battle is severely diminished.
> 
> -These assault units can no longer assault out of a stationary Rhino, meaning they must walk up the board to be effective assault units (see point above). Jacobus just got shelved.
> 
> -Death Cult Assassins can no longer be used as an answer to Terminators since Power Weapons were nerfed to AP3 and overwatch against their weak 5++, 5FnP means many won't make it into combat.


Expect now you always get your feel no pain save unless the weapon causes instant death. As for Death Cult Assassins, they can be used to deal with terminators give each one of them a power sword and a power axe. Fighting marines use the sword, fighting terminators give them the axe. Your afraid of taking wounds when getting shot? Put in a character to take the wounds for you. Also don't forget that Repentia can now be controlled (instead of mindless charging the closes unit) and now give you more attacks when you charge.


> -All SoB vehicles have only 3 hull points. No access to stronger vehicles means all SoB vehicles can be glanced to death fairly easily.
> 
> -Vehicles only receive a 5+ cover save from Smoke Launchers. It cannot be stressed enough the dependance of SoB on the survivability of their Rhinos to stay protected and mobile, survivability which has been greatly diminished in 6th.


Everyone else is in the same boat with hull points, sure a land raider has more hull points but for 5 extra points you can get 3 penitent engines which has more hull points then a land raider. Afraid they are going to get shot and killed? Buy a bastion and hide them behind their. Also I don't have to worry about my exorcist getting glance and not being able to fire. I've watch as my Exorcist got glance one turn, can't fire and then next turn it get destroyed, now when I get glance I can still return fire.


> -Warlord doesn't really benefit an army whose strongest HQ, Celestine, is T3 and isn't immune to instant death. Challenges from enemy Warlords will be exceedingly difficult to handle. Celestine does benifit from the Power Weapon nerf, having a 2+ armor save, but is the only model in the entire army to have such.


Who cares if your not immune to instant death, you come back form the dead with D3 Wounds. Your WS 7 and I 7 with 5 Attacks and you always wound on a 4+ for 115 points. Don't forget you get to use her heavy flamer when you get charge. You have a 2+ armour save and a 4+ invu save. Saint Celestine got buff so much more in this edition. 


> -Many units were given SoB specific abilities once exclusive to the SoB army such as Dual Pistol fire, Regrouping under 25%, and Psychic defense.


But now our regular units also benefit form it to. Dominion squad falling back, can still regroup. This means I can now spend my faith point on more important stuff instead of regrouping. Superior or Canoness with two pistols can now fire them both. Also don't forget our entire army has frag and krak grenades which we can throw and use in close combat verse monstrous creatures. Hitting vehicles is now much easier. Overwatch and wall of death are also huge buffs to the sister of battle army.


----------



## Zion

Necrosis said:


> *snip*


You make a lot of good points, but unless something changes I find myself looking at my army and sighing. It's not that allies and fortifications don't help, but I find myself in a position a lot of older style codexes are in: I'd built up to an army that works and now I have to compromise a fairly solid build just to fit in allies and fortifications.

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE that allies are available, and that there combinations that are completely fluffy you can take/build. But it kills me that to keep playing my army I HAVE to take them to even stand a chance in our local games.


----------



## mahavira

Slightly off topic, but am I alone in thinking that the repentia act of faith applies to casualties from overwatch? "This Act of Faith is used in the Assault phase. If successful, do not remove any models in the unit if they are killed before they have attacked."

The mental picture looks perfect, but the faq doesn't really give any guidance.


----------



## Zion

mahavira said:


> Slightly off topic, but am I alone in thinking that the repentia act of faith applies to casualties from overwatch? "This Act of Faith is used in the Assault phase. If successful, do not remove any models in the unit if they are killed before they have attacked."
> 
> The mental picture looks perfect, but the faq doesn't really give any guidance.


Hm, that's a good point. It probably only applies to the new "fight sub-phase" but the wording is ambigious. You think they could have fixed that.


----------



## mahavira

Upon closer examination of the faq, I think it's no good - you use acts of faith immediately before moving in the movement phase, shooting in the shooting phase, or at the beginning of the fight sub phase. Oh well, seemed too good to be true.


----------



## Zion

mahavira said:


> Upon closer examination of the faq, I think it's no good - you use acts of faith immediately before moving in the movement phase, shooting in the shooting phase, or at the beginning of the fight sub phase. Oh well, seemed too good to be true.


At least that makes sense then.


----------



## SilverTabby

*edited after checking the faq for phase timing definitons*

On a seperate note, those thinking you can join ICs to non-sister units and give them their bonuses: sorry, you can't. WD380, p.94, "Independant Characters and Acts of Faith". 

"Units that have the Acts of Faith rule benefit from any bonuses recieved by an Independant character that has joined the unit when an Act of Faith is used."

As to Canonesses joining the Retributors - why? She can only attempt her AoF in the assault phase. No shooting preferred enemy bonus. Likewise with her manning the big guns. Hopefully this will be fixed soon (it's one of those little oversights I'm going to point out ).

In fact, any other small oversights on a similar basis? I can write a list of them and point them out directly...


----------



## Arcane

@Necrosis So it's cool that they nerfed a bunch of stuff from a half codex that needed those little things to survive because everyone else got nerfed as well? Actually, while that is true, those other codexes also got a bonus in the forum of Psykers, flyers, effective allies, and bonuses to useful units to offset this. 

I'm also really sick of the "you can just take allies to solve this problem" crap. I started playing SoB to play SoB, not some gimped force that is required to take a third of their points from their own army because they can't hold their own? Wow that sounds like a lot of the fluff I was complaining about before huh? How sisters have been written off as needing the help of SM, GK, or IG to make anything real happen. Go figure,. 



SilverTabby said:


> *edited after checking the faq for phase timing definitons*
> 
> On a seperate note, those thinking you can join ICs to non-sister units and give them their bonuses: sorry, you can't. WD380, p.94, "Independant Characters and Acts of Faith".
> 
> "Units that have the Acts of Faith rule benefit from any bonuses recieved by an Independant character that has joined the unit when an Act of Faith is used."
> 
> As to Canonesses joining the Retributors - why? She can only attempt her AoF in the assault phase. No shooting preferred enemy bonus. Likewise with her manning the big guns. Hopefully this will be fixed soon (it's one of those little oversights I'm going to point out ).
> 
> In fact, any other small oversights on a similar basis? I can write a list of them and point them out directly...


Would be cool if acts of faith lasted until the end of the game turn, or rather until your next game turn. That way they would still work for Overwatch etc.


----------



## Majere613

SilverTabby said:


> *edited after checking the faq for phase timing definitons*
> As to Canonesses joining the Retributors - why? She can only attempt her AoF in the assault phase. No shooting preferred enemy bonus. Likewise with her manning the big guns. Hopefully this will be fixed soon (it's one of those little oversights I'm going to point out ).
> 
> In fact, any other small oversights on a similar basis? I can write a list of them and point them out directly...


No, you're missing why my Canoness is with them- it's nothing to do with her Act of Faith (though it would be lovely if they did change it so we could use it for shooting) it's because she has no wargear bar a Storm Bolter and adds +1 to the Retributors' AoF check, for a total of 3+ to get Rending with a reroll for the Simulacrum. With Rending, even the Bolters in the squad can threaten up to AV 13 tanks. The Quad Gun is already Twin Linked, so with the Canoness manning it it's about as close to an auto-hit as you can get at the moment.


----------



## Zion

Arcane said:


> I'm also really sick of the "you can just take allies to solve this problem" crap. I started playing SoB to play SoB, not some gimped force that is required to take a third of their points from their own army because they can't hold their own? Wow that sounds like a lot of the fluff I was complaining about before huh? How sisters have been written off as needing the help of SM, GK, or IG to make anything real happen. Go figure,.


QFT.

Some people miss the point of wanting to play an army as itself. If I want to play a cool themed army I'll play with allies (like Daemons and Chaos for some Word Bearers, or Guard and Chaos for some Traitor Guard with some Chaos Marines leading them), but if I want to play an army pure then I should be able to without needing to use another army to bail mine out. I wasn't one of the people who missed the allies rules for Sisters when we got the White Dwarf, and while I'm glad everyone can build those cool army ideas they've had for a while I still don't want to ally my Sisters now.


----------



## Necrosis

Question about sisters. Do you get 2d6 Faith points in 2000+ point games as your now using 2 FoC?


----------



## Zion

Necrosis said:


> Question about sisters. Do you get 2d6 Faith points in 2000+ point games as your now using 2 FoC?


It just says that you roll a D6. So, I'd say no. Not without an FAQ at least.


----------



## Mokuren

Zion said:


> Some people miss the point of wanting to play an army as itself. If I want to play a cool themed army I'll play with allies (like Daemons and Chaos for some Word Bearers, or Guard and Chaos for some Traitor Guard with some Chaos Marines leading them), but if I want to play an army pure then I should be able to without needing to use another army to bail mine out. I wasn't one of the people who missed the allies rules for Sisters when we got the White Dwarf, and while I'm glad everyone can build those cool army ideas they've had for a while I still don't want to ally my Sisters now.


I have always wanted to ally my Sisters with IG, mostly because I like both armies (and Chaos, but I like Chaos as a stand-alone thing) and have made up a certain degree of fluff in my mind that makes me enjoy my army-building a lot more.

I agree, however, that one should _not_ be required to use allies as a stopgap measure to make up for the fact their army sucks and gathers not even enough interest for GW to address important points in the FAQ, such as whether faith points become 2d6 at 2000+ points or whether acts of faith last for the whole turn in regards to Repentia.

Say what you will, but no other army is _required_ to use allies just to _survive_ the codex creep, they all either have enough toys or varied enough options to at least cook up something to manage, even if not perfectly. SoB have neither of these.

I will use allies and being IG allies they _will_ cover my army's weaknesses, but it is by no means reasonable to assume this makes the fact Sisters' WDdex sucks irrelevant or "fixed".


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Mokuren said:


> I agree, however, that one should _not_ be required to use allies as a stopgap measure to make up for the fact their army sucks and gathers not even enough interest for GW to address important points in the FAQ, such as whether faith points become 2d6 at 2000+ points or whether acts of faith last for the whole turn in regards to Repentia.


Yeah having to use allies that way seems wrong, though Imperial armies working together entirely makes sense to me. One reason I'm reconsidering buying a IG detachment to paint up as a DOOP army to help even my numbers out :biggrin:


----------



## SilverTabby

Majere613 said:


> No, you're missing why my Canoness is with them- it's nothing to do with her Act of Faith (though it would be lovely if they did change it so we could use it for shooting) it's because she has no wargear bar a Storm Bolter and adds +1 to the Retributors' AoF check, for a total of 3+ to get Rending with a reroll for the Simulacrum. With Rending, even the Bolters in the squad can threaten up to AV 13 tanks. The Quad Gun is already Twin Linked, so with the Canoness manning it it's about as close to an auto-hit as you can get at the moment.


Ah, I get you. Seems an expensive way of doing it, but works. I find her 65pts better spent elsewhere, like with a squad of Celestians out hunting things. Each to their own, I may try that idea sometime. 


Zion said:


> QFT.
> 
> Some people miss the point of wanting to play an army as itself. If I want to play a cool themed army I'll play with allies (like Daemons and Chaos for some Word Bearers, or Guard and Chaos for some Traitor Guard with some Chaos Marines leading them), but if I want to play an army pure then I should be able to without needing to use another army to bail mine out. I wasn't one of the people who missed the allies rules for Sisters when we got the White Dwarf, and while I'm glad everyone can build those cool army ideas they've had for a while I still don't want to ally my Sisters now.


I play exclusive Sisters. I have an IG force that was built specially to go with them, but only really used it when I was short points. Same thing will apply now. I like my Sisters as a Sisters army. I have yet to see how they fair against fliers, but I imagine dominions and Retributors will suddenly become more popular, with rerolls and rending to help with those 6's. 

I'm not going to put my Sisters aside. And I recommend everyone actually play games rather than say they will discard them based off paper. I honestly can't see why pure Sister players dislike this list so much more than the last, other than the complaining about losing their 3++, which (let's face it) was hugely overpowered. Everyone got saving throw nerfs this edition. *shrugs* Lot's of things in the list got better, like boltpistols and grenades, like Repentia and penitent engines (4 - 10 attacks? Yes please!), cheaper Seraphim with a bonus attack...


----------



## Zion

SilverTabby said:


> Ah, I get you. Seems an expensive way of doing it, but works. I find her 65pts better spent elsewhere, like with a squad of Celestians out hunting things. Each to their own, I may try that idea sometime.
> 
> I play exclusive Sisters. I have an IG force that was built specially to go with them, but only really used it when I was short points. Same thing will apply now. I like my Sisters as a Sisters army. I have yet to see how they fair against fliers, but I imagine dominions and Retributors will suddenly become more popular, with rerolls and rending to help with those 6's.
> 
> I'm not going to put my Sisters aside. And I recommend everyone actually play games rather than say they will discard them based off paper. I honestly can't see why pure Sister players dislike this list so much more than the last, other than the complaining about losing their 3++, which (let's face it) was hugely overpowered. Everyone got saving throw nerfs this edition. *shrugs* Lot's of things in the list got better, like boltpistols and grenades, like Repentia and penitent engines (4 - 10 attacks? Yes please!), cheaper Seraphim with a bonus attack...


$182.00

That's the minimum it'll cost me to get enough Heavy Bolters (or Multi-Meltas, double it for both) to take 3 full Retributor squads to be able to fill the air with enough bullets to handle the local meta in terms of fliers and flying monstrous creatures. That also means not fielding Exorcists which make up my ranged weapon for handling other army's ranged anti-tank/large blast templates prior to the rest of my army getting in range.

It's just too much of an investment right now, both in terms of money and patience to try and find that new balance with an army that I like, but don't see the way out with. It's not a bad army, but it is badly handicapped by anyone taking Flyers, or Flying Monstrous Creatures and unfortunately for me there are a lot of both in my area and the way I play means my army isn't built for it.

And Penitent Engines are better on paper than they used to be but because of their position in the FOC you need either a double FOC or hope the rest of your ranged anti-tank can see you though since you lose Heavy Support slots to field them.


----------



## Sworn Radical

SilverTabby said:


> And I recommend everyone actually play games rather than say they will discard them based off paper.


I absolutely second this, sixth edition is fresh outta the box and it's way to early to pass judgment without some serious play-testing and tinkering.


----------



## SilverTabby

Zion said:


> $182.00
> 
> That's the minimum it'll cost me to get enough Heavy Bolters (or Multi-Meltas, double it for both) to take 3 full Retributor squads to be able to fill the air with enough bullets to handle the local meta in terms of fliers and flying monstrous creatures. That also means not fielding Exorcists which make up my ranged weapon for handling other army's ranged anti-tank/large blast templates prior to the rest of my army getting in range.
> 
> It's just too much of an investment right now, both in terms of money and patience to try and find that new balance with an army that I like, but don't see the way out with. It's not a bad army, but it is badly handicapped by anyone taking Flyers, or Flying Monstrous Creatures and unfortunately for me there are a lot of both in my area and the way I play means my army isn't built for it.
> 
> And Penitent Engines are better on paper than they used to be but because of their position in the FOC you need either a double FOC or hope the rest of your ranged anti-tank can see you though since you lose Heavy Support slots to field them.


I guess I am spoilt by having 13+ years of accumulated Sisters models, so I can field 3 full retributor squads if I want to. 

I guess I just handle anti-tank differently to you, as I've never taken more than one exorcist at a time. I usually field 1 Retributors, 1 exorcist and leave the other slot. I find I have more than enough anti-tank in twin melta BSS squads in rhinos, and dominions and occasionally even Seraphim. A rhino doing a drive-by with both meltas shooting from the hatch, rerolling 1s tends to do the job. Admittedly my usual opponents don't go mech-heavy, but it's also worked against Guard so I can't be doing that much wrong.

You don't need range to take out tanks, just to have the right guns and be able to get them where they need to be.


----------



## Zion

SilverTabby said:


> I guess I am spoilt by having 13+ years of accumulated Sisters models, so I can field 3 full retributor squads if I want to.


Yeah, my collection is a lot smaller than most other Sister's players, though on the flip side with the current pricing I probably paid almost as much. That's what I get for starting the army in 5th edition though.



SilverTabby said:


> I guess I just handle anti-tank differently to you, as I've never taken more than one exorcist at a time. I usually field 1 Retributors, 1 exorcist and leave the other slot. I find I have more than enough anti-tank in twin melta BSS squads in rhinos, and dominions and occasionally even Seraphim. A rhino doing a drive-by with both meltas shooting from the hatch, rerolling 1s tends to do the job. Admittedly my usual opponents don't go mech-heavy, but it's also worked against Guard so I can't be doing that much wrong.


We have a LOT of mech heavy and (in the case of Nids) MC heavy armies in our local meta. I started with one Exorcist, but quickly found that it would get nuked off the board or not be enough to supress their heavier tanks (or Land Raiders) before they got in my face. For me they've added a key element to my army in it's ability to force the enemy to be on the defensive earlier and to keep faster armies (like Dark Eldar) from getting out of my reach.



SilverTabby said:


> You don't need range to take out tanks, just to have the right guns and be able to get them where they need to be.


You're right, I don't need range. I bring Repentia (who have nuked a number of things in the past), and enough melta to make a lot of things cry, but for the way I play, and who I play the Exorcist has proved to be an invaluable tool in my army.


----------



## crooner

So I'm not entirely sure where else to post this. I'm sorry for being off topic. This is only speculation, I'm not saying that I've seen or heard anything. 
Now that power weapons all have their own special profile, I remembered something I saw in Madcowcrazy's rumor thread that was here a while back. Someone mentioned sisters getting Arbites as troops or elites or something. If they all get power mauls and suppression shields that's actually not a bad assault squad. There are also the sister superior models who are toting around power mauls. Seeing how much space we got in the new rule book and the new weapons I think it's likely that sisters will be updated and we might actually get some use out of those new rules. 
Of course I might be wrong again. I'm wrong a lot.


----------



## Sakura_ninja

If they got mauls it would probably be just close combat weapons with special rules like power mauls, since they are more for suppressing not outright killing like power weapons.

Dunno.


----------



## Arcane

crooner said:


> So I'm not entirely sure where else to post this. I'm sorry for being off topic. This is only speculation, I'm not saying that I've seen or heard anything.
> Now that power weapons all have their own special profile, I remembered something I saw in Madcowcrazy's rumor thread that was here a while back. Someone mentioned sisters getting Arbites as troops or elites or something. If they all get power mauls and suppression shields that's actually not a bad assault squad. There are also the sister superior models who are toting around power mauls. Seeing how much space we got in the new rule book and the new weapons I think it's likely that sisters will be updated and we might actually get some use out of those new rules.
> Of course I might be wrong again. I'm wrong a lot.


It's unknown whether SoB will get Arbites as troops, at least currently there is no indication that way. The models made for 2003 don't really have much to do with the future per se. The Sister models with power mauls are actually very rare, I've never seen one in person and my 2000 point army contains none. You can special order them of course but few do because the actual codex contains to special rules for them. When a SoB takes a "Power Weapon" it's just a generic AP3 CCW.


----------



## Zion

crooner said:


> So I'm not entirely sure where else to post this. I'm sorry for being off topic. This is only speculation, I'm not saying that I've seen or heard anything.
> Now that power weapons all have their own special profile, I remembered something I saw in Madcowcrazy's rumor thread that was here a while back. Someone mentioned sisters getting Arbites as troops or elites or something. If they all get power mauls and suppression shields that's actually not a bad assault squad. There are also the sister superior models who are toting around power mauls. Seeing how much space we got in the new rule book and the new weapons I think it's likely that sisters will be updated and we might actually get some use out of those new rules.
> Of course I might be wrong again. I'm wrong a lot.


If the Arbites came standard with Power Mauls and Supression Shields I think we'd have the perfect anti-Genestealer unit. :grin:



Arcane said:


> It's unknown whether SoB will get Arbites as troops, at least currently there is no indication that way. The models made for 2003 don't really have much to do with the future per se. The Sister models with power mauls are actually very rare, I've never seen one in person and my 2000 point army contains none. You can special order them of course but few do because the actual codex contains to special rules for them. When a SoB takes a "Power Weapon" it's just a generic AP3 CCW.


I actually own/use the Power Maul Superiors. I got them as a way to make it easier to tell half-strength Sisters of Battle units from Dominions (usually take 5-6, and often one of those two Meltas dies). 

With the new power weapon rules (and the rule that if the weapon isn't specified you use what the model is actually equipped with) I kinda dig the idea of S5, AP4 Sisters. Sure they won't kill Marines but that gives them a greater wounding potential against other models (Guardsmen dead on 2s, Genestealers dead on 3s, Tau dead on 2s, Necrons dead on 3s (though they can try to come back)) and with the Concusive rule even -hitting- an MC gives the rest of the unit a chance to act before being eating (Krak Grenades AWAY!).


----------



## Purge the Heretic

Arcane said:


> When a SoB takes a "Power Weapon" it's just a generic AP3 CCW.


No, its one of 4 types of power weapon depending on what it is modeled as, per the rulebook and FAQ.

A Mace, Axe, Lance, or Sword. STR an AP varies.

I don't know if I see this changing in any new codex either. With GW going back to a stronger narrative focus, and beginning to ignore the tournament scene, giving a modeler a choice seems right up their alley.


----------



## crooner

Sakura_ninja said:


> If they got mauls it would probably be just close combat weapons with special rules like power mauls, since they are more for suppressing not outright killing like power weapons.
> 
> 
> Dunno.


In the fifth ed. rulebook it stated that because a model is removed as a casualty doesn't mean it's dead. A couple of guys hitting you with powered beat sticks may not kill you, but you'll think twice about fighting back/getting up. I think it's a fair assumption they would still be ap4.



Arcane said:


> It's unknown whether SoB will get Arbites as troops, at least currently there is no indication that way. The models made for 2003 don't really have much to do with the future per se. The Sister models with power mauls are actually very rare, I've never seen one in person and my 2000 point army contains none. You can special order them of course but few do because the actual codex contains to special rules for them. When a SoB takes a "Power Weapon" it's just a generic AP3 CCW.


The current models may not have them now, but they went and included rule for it when almost nobody else has them either. A few of the new Dark Eldar models had power weapon spears that now have rules. So I'm not counting anything out. 

To follow up what Zion said, I think that it would be nice to have a squad for swatting light infantry or keeping assault units away from the girls. With an option for a power sword sarge or something like that I actually think they could step with marines.


----------



## Zion

Purge the Heretic said:


> No, its one of 4 types of power weapon depending on what it is modeled as, per the rulebook and FAQ.
> 
> A Mace, Axe, Lance, or Sword. STR an AP varies.
> 
> I don't know if I see this changing in any new codex either. With GW going back to a stronger narrative focus, and beginning to ignore the tournament scene, giving a modeler a choice seems right up their alley.


Between the Mace, Axe and Sword at least I think the options are pretty balanced. They all have a different bonus (Swords hit at iniative and are AP3 but limit you to the model's actual strength value; Axes have +1S and are AP2, but have the penalty of swinging at I1; Maces are +2 Strength and Concussive, but are only AP4) and penalties that keep one from being a better choice than one of the others.


----------



## Arcane

This transition to 6th ed is proving more confusing that difficult than I thought... the 5th ed change didn't retcon as many rules with the BRB. So it's actually pretty cool now that you can put a power maul in there to give them some oomph.


----------



## Sakura_ninja

I'm actually finding 6th easy to get (ignoring dumb things like players being silly with FAQ's) as its just 2nd, 3rd and 4th wrapped together basically, its just more to remember now


----------



## Suijin

Zion said:


> If the Arbites came standard with Power Mauls and Supression Shields I think we'd have the perfect anti-Genestealer unit. :grin:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually own/use the Power Maul Superiors. I got them as a way to make it easier to tell half-strength Sisters of Battle units from Dominions (usually take 5-6, and often one of those two Meltas dies).
> 
> With the new power weapon rules (and the rule that if the weapon isn't specified you use what the model is actually equipped with) I kinda dig the idea of S5, AP4 Sisters. Sure they won't kill Marines but that gives them a greater wounding potential against other models (Guardsmen dead on 2s, Genestealers dead on 3s, Tau dead on 2s, Necrons dead on 3s (though they can try to come back)) and with the Concusive rule even -hitting- an MC gives the rest of the unit a chance to act before being eating (Krak Grenades AWAY!).


I don't understand the part of using a maul to lower a MC initiative. Unless you have a Canoness, Preacher, or Confessor with the weapon they are all the same initiative anyway.


----------



## Zion

Suijin said:


> I don't understand the part of using a maul to lower a MC initiative. Unless you have a Canoness, Preacher, or Confessor with the weapon they are all the same initiative anyway.


It puts the MC at I1 in later rounds if you wounded it, but didn't kill it. It means that less models will die if you have to go a second round. Also it means it's easier to wound the MC since most are T6 anyways.


----------



## Suijin

Ah later rounds, I never "plan" on the girls making it to the second round, gotcha.


----------



## Zion

Suijin said:


> Ah later rounds, I never "plan" on the girls making it to the second round, gotcha.


Most people don't. But if you make it, it's a good perk.


----------



## Arcane

Idk, I can't see much of a reason for taking the special power weapons or a power weapon at all. If you are really worried about getting caught dancing with armor just take a cheap Melta Bomb. Let's face it, if your sister squad get's into CC they are screwed and thanks to low base Str even a special weapon won't help, unlike Orcs with a Big Choppa carried by a Nob. It would have been nice if Priest detachments could have been worth it, but 45 points for a guardsman is a joke.


----------



## SilverTabby

Technically, you're paying 20pts for a guardsman that allows rerolls to hit. It's just the mandatory 25pt rosarius that makes him a terrible choice. I'd pay 20pts...


----------



## Arcane

SilverTabby said:


> Technically, you're paying 20pts for a guardsman that allows rerolls to hit. It's just the mandatory 25pt rosarius that makes him a terrible choice. I'd pay 20pts...


Yeah possibly. It would be really nice if you were given a cheap base unit and then could kit him out however you see fit. Oddly, while GW is certainty a model company and strives to sell them, they manage to put many models into the new and old SoB/WH army that no one would ever want to buy.


----------



## SilverTabby

And speaking of models I'd never buy... Yesterday I had inspiration for my Army of Repentance. Before, I could never get enough themed units it to make it a viable theme at above 1k points. However, now I can take (rename and remodel) Coteaz, and add 2 more units of arcoflagellants, and a jump-pack equipped Penitent Engine for all sorts of giggles :biggrin: 

An army that will never win anything, but will be all sorts of hilarity to play with...


----------



## Purge the Heretic

Arcane said:


> Yeah possibly. It would be really nice if you were given a cheap base unit and then could kit him out however you see fit. Oddly, while GW is certainty a model company and strives to sell them, they manage to put many models into the new and old SoB/WH army that no one would ever want to buy.


They also nerfed the arco-flagellents which are gorgeous models into uselessness....no choice at all between them and crusaders/DCAs


----------



## Zion

Purge the Heretic said:


> They also nerfed the arco-flagellents which are gorgeous models into uselessness....no choice at all between them and crusaders/DCAs


I don't know, if I was trying to force a ridiculious number of saves I'd take them and go Light Infantry/Hoard hunting. Otherwise, yeah they're not nearly as good as they could be. A couple points off their cost, or at least a 6+ armor save would have gone a long way into fixing that to be honest.


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## Suijin

Seems like they just priced the eviscerator too high. I mean sure if you have 6 attack and S5 (goes to 10 doubled) it would be well worth 25 points. At S3 A2 it doesn't seem nearly as good, canoness gets WS5 A3 so very slightly better for her.

Hahaha does anything in the IG book get a bunch of high Str attacks to make this priest "worth it"? I mean arcos get S5 A5 at 15 points, so better than that.

Seems like 6th is geared toward good shooting and good assault. We are above average shooting at short range, but pretty bad in assault, unless you use a unit that has no shooting and then is good in assault. You really want to be able to shoot them then assault to maximize damage.


----------



## SilverTabby

Oh I don't intend to write off Arco's just yet. With Jacobus you can get 54 S5 attacks on the charge, rerolling misses. That's an average of about 30-35 hits, 20ish wounds vs terminators and a LOT of saves to make. 

Against anything in less than power armour (or even power armour if the dice like you) the sheer number of dice you're rolling can really ruin your opponents day.

But then I don't plan for the army I'm writing to win much. They are there to repent their sins by dying, with a few Sisters to witness it.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

SilverTabby said:


> With Jacobus you can get 54 S5 attacks on the charge, rerolling misses.


WTF !!!!! how does that work?


----------



## Necrosis

Well if you take Jacob and you attach 12 arcos, you get 60 attacks at s5, rerolling misses. Arcos have 4 attacks base +1 for jacob, then 5x12 for the number you took. If you charge this becomes 72 attacks at s5.


----------



## Arcane

SilverTabby said:


> Oh I don't intend to write off Arco's just yet. With Jacobus you can get 54 S5 attacks on the charge, rerolling misses. That's an average of about 30-35 hits, 20ish wounds vs terminators and a LOT of saves to make.
> 
> Against anything in less than power armour (or even power armour if the dice like you) the sheer number of dice you're rolling can really ruin your opponents day.


Yeah, they are not bad, but Death Cult Assassins are far superior. You get 1 less attack on each model (dual wielding) and in exchange get +3 Initiative and get to pick and choose power weapons, so you could take a sword for getting AP3 attacks, then mauls for +2 str when needed AND a 5++ save. The choice is simple.



Necrosis said:


> Well if you take Jacob and you attach 12 arcos, you get 60 attacks at s5, rerolling misses. Arcos have 4 attacks base +1 for jacob, then 5x12 for the number you took. If you charge this becomes 72 attacks at s5.


SoB Conclaves come in groups of 10, not 12.


----------



## Arcane

Looking at the MiniatureMarket's order form, which was created some time within the last month (it has the full 6th ed product line), it states " GW Is currently Out-of-Stock on most of it's Sisters of Battle range. Check back regularly for upcoming preorders!" ... looking at Gamesworkshop though, all SoB models appear available for immediate shipping. So either they know something we don't or they just don't want to carry SoB models because they don't sell well.


----------



## Zion

Arcane said:


> Looking at the MiniatureMarket's order form, which was created some time within the last month (it has the full 6th ed product line), it states " GW Is currently Out-of-Stock on most of it's Sisters of Battle range. Check back regularly for upcoming preorders!" ... looking at Gamesworkshop though, all SoB models appear available for immediate shipping. So either they know something we don't or they just don't want to carry SoB models because they don't sell well.


That or they're saying that the old box sets are out of stock. :/

Has anyone emailed them to get confirmation what they mean by that yet?


----------



## Necrosis

Maybe they are finally give us... 

Finecast!


----------



## Arcane

That's a decent speculation Necrosis. Not sure if that would be good or bad since the current bolter-huggin-sisters are neigh unmodifiable as is anyway... 

I sent them an email to hopefully garner more information.


----------



## Necrosis

Did anyone think I was going to say plastic?


----------



## SilverTabby

Magpie_Oz said:


> WTF !!!!! how does that work?


9 Arco's, 4 attacks each, +1 for Jacobus, +1 for charging. 

Yes, DCAs are superior in every way bar number of attacks and strength, (which can now be addressed by sacrificing AP3 as you can't split attacks with multiple weapons on one model) but in a penitent army, the convicts being forcibly redeemed through arcoflagellation are the troop of choice. And having 3 units of them bearing down on you (with a few crusaders in front as wardens) is a fairly scary prospect as each unit will be rolling 50-odd dice on the charge...


----------



## Sakura_ninja

Necrosis said:


> Did anyone think I was going to say plastic?


No, gw don't do dead armies in plastic


----------



## bitsandkits

Arcane said:


> That's a decent speculation Necrosis. Not sure if that would be good or bad since the current bolter-huggin-sisters are neigh unmodifiable as is anyway...
> 
> I sent them an email to hopefully garner more information.


sisters are not order-able by indie companies, they havent been for well over a year.its nothing new, and if you order them direct they no longer come in the old style packing, its just a GW generic white box.


----------



## Necrosis

Sakura_ninja said:


> No, gw don't do dead armies in plastic


So what do you call dark eldar before they got an update? Or the Grey Knight Army.


----------



## Sakura_ninja

Necrosis said:


> So what do you call dark eldar before they got an update? Or the Grey Knight Army.


I call them not around since 2nd ed, but still popular during 3rd and 4th, sisters aren't/weren't


----------



## scscofield

I would say you guys have a incoming actual print codex and models just for one reason alone. They did full color spreads of the model line and added them into the appendix of the new rule book. This will rope in little timmy, so they will need to release a actual codex and a nice pretty selection of high priced finecast. They will change the rules just enough that using the WDdex won't be possible, that way they can get more money from their current players also.


----------



## bitsandkits

scscofield said:


> I would say you guys have a incoming actual print codex and models just for one reason alone. They did full color spreads of the model line and added them into the appendix of the new rule book. This will rope in little timmy, so they will need to release a actual codex and a nice pretty selection of high priced finecast. They will change the rules just enough that using the WDdex won't be possible, that way they can get more money from their current players also.


i would say your pretty much on the money, plus jes goodwin has on previous occassions mentioned the challenges hes had making sisters plastic because of the cloaks and armour combo. If we were not getting a hobbit system this year i would have put money on them getting the pre christmas release slot like DE and Necrons, maybe we will see them pre easter 2013


----------



## Zion

bitsandkits said:


> i would say your pretty much on the money, plus jes goodwin has on previous occassions mentioned the challenges hes had making sisters plastic because of the cloaks and armour combo. If we were not getting a hobbit system this year i would have put money on them getting the pre christmas release slot like DE and Necrons, maybe we will see them pre easter 2013


If that happens I will be as happy as a pre-teen girl at a boyband concert!

Also I will be very broke as I will have spent all my money.


----------



## bitsandkits

i think they will be worth the wait, jes goodwin has never produced a bad model and lets be fair the entire 40k hobby revolves around him and his concepts,Just as an excercise the next time your in a gw store goto the 40k section and just pick up 10 randome boxes and see how many have his name listed as the designer/sculptor, if hes over seeing sisters you are in for a treat, a slow treat but a treat all the same. Dude also invented the skaven.


----------



## Zion

bitsandkits said:


> i think they will be worth the wait, jes goodwin has never produced a bad model and lets be fair the entire 40k hobby revolves around him and his concepts,Just as an excercise the next time your in a gw store goto the 40k section and just pick up 10 randome boxes and see how many have his name listed as the designer/sculptor, if hes over seeing sisters you are in for a treat, a slow treat but a treat all the same. Dude also invented the skaven.


And he's the one who was responsible for all of the really awesome Dark Eldar models out now (which where reportedly able to teach him something that he could apply to the Sister's robes).

The thing is even if he has finished work on the Sisters (assuming they aren't just a side project here and there in between working on other things) there are a couple hurdles that need to be overcome before we see them:

1. The models have to be completed and then stockpiled. This creates the ability to ship them out to all of their stores without running out. This also takes a while which is why we have models done a year plus before they're released.

2. The codex has to be done.

3. The codex has to have entered the point of being printed/stocked.

So far all we've heard of is some stuff based on some greens (potentially?), and maybe of the models being in plastic. So what we're looking at now are numbers 2 and 3 that need to be met before we can get our new toys.

Though if there is stuff on 2 and 3 I'd love to hear it. I've been curious how GW will handle the rules for a while. In all honesty if I have to start from scratch on their Tactica again (like I have on the new edition) I don't mind. Please GW, feel free to shake that tree and break out some new toys!

EDIT: It's not that I don't care about new models, I do. I really want spiffy new models to paint up and make look really good, but when it comes to rumors about the only time we know a rulebook is getting close is when we start getting those rumors about the rules and the units in the Codex itself. To me that is a tell-tale sign that we've actually got a codex done, it's being stocked up on, and we'll be in the next year.

So either the codex isn't ready yet, or it's one of the best kept secrets in all of GW right now.


----------



## bitsandkits

Zion said:


> And he's the one who was responsible for all of the really awesome Dark Eldar models out now (which where reportedly able to teach him something that he could apply to the Sister's robes).
> 
> The thing is even if he has finished work on the Sisters (assuming they aren't just a side project here and there in between working on other things) there are a couple hurdles that need to be overcome before we see them:
> 
> 1. The models have to be completed and then stockpiled. This creates the ability to ship them out to all of their stores without running out. This also takes a while which is why we have models done a year plus before they're released.
> 
> 2. The codex has to be done.
> 
> 3. The codex has to have entered the point of being printed/stocked.
> 
> So far all we've heard of is some stuff based on some greens (potentially?), and maybe of the models being in plastic. So what we're looking at now are numbers 2 and 3 that need to be met before we can get our new toys.
> 
> Though if there is stuff on 2 and 3 I'd love to hear it. I've been curious how GW will handle the rules for a while. In all honesty if I have to start from scratch on their Tactica again (like I have on the new edition) I don't mind. Please GW, feel free to shake that tree and break out some new toys!
> 
> EDIT: It's not that I don't care about new models, I do. I really want spiffy new models to paint up and make look really good, but when it comes to rumors about the only time we know a rulebook is getting close is when we start getting those rumors about the rules and the units in the Codex itself. To me that is a tell-tale sign that we've actually got a codex done, it's being stocked up on, and we'll be in the next year.
> 
> So either the codex isn't ready yet, or it's one of the best kept secrets in all of GW right now.


well DE are getting towards two years old now, meaning they sisters have been worked on for atleast that period or likely longer as he tends to split his time, unlike the DE they dont need a complete overhaul, they are very good models already and are unlikely to change radically, the DE needed a complete redesign accross the board, infantry,chracters and vehicles and new units, a serious under taking. The sisters dont need that amount of work, the style wont change much, most of the infactry will be moved to plastic kits (as is the way) but i cant see the immolator/rhino kit getting anything done to it, the exorcist will likely get a revamp and most likely become a 2 for one kit with something like the repressor. so i think the inclusion in the main rule book, the WD codex and no finecast points towards them coming 2013.


----------



## Zion

bitsandkits said:


> well DE are getting towards two years old now, meaning they sisters have been worked on for atleast that period or likely longer as he tends to split his time, unlike the DE they dont need a complete overhaul, they are very good models already and are unlikely to change radically, the DE needed a complete redesign accross the board, infantry,chracters and vehicles and new units, a serious under taking. The sisters dont need that amount of work, the style wont change much, most of the infactry will be moved to plastic kits (as is the way) but i cant see the immolator/rhino kit getting anything done to it, the exorcist will likely get a revamp and most likely become a 2 for one kit with something like the repressor. so i think the inclusion in the main rule book, the WD codex and no finecast points towards them coming 2013.


I see two big things Sisters models need: new head sculpts, and bolters that aren't physically attached to their torsos. 

There was talk about some decrotive touches being added to the Bolters and such too, if I recall correctly.


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## Mokuren

Zion said:


> I see two big things Sisters models need: new head sculpts, and bolters that aren't physically attached to their torsos.
> 
> There was talk about some decrotive touches being added to the Bolters and such too, if I recall correctly.


Am I the only one that believes receiving a codex with the very same sisters since 1996 will make for a huge pile of shit?

We currently have the only army that has less model stamps than friggin' Space Marines, we don't just need more head sculpts and bolters that aren't part of their bodies (they are both still very necessary, of course), we also need a reimagining of sisters themselves.

Sisters on bikes, assault sisters, terminator sisters, sisters on skimmers, more vehicles, more ICs and more options for them. Look at the goddamn WDdex, we have _one_ troop choice, which consists of _the exact same models that constitute our elites, fast attack and heavy support choices_ with seraphim and repentia being the _only_ exceptions, not even Space Marines have the exact same model for almost all infantry units, and they're the stereotypical samey army!

I want the next sisters dex to _force_ me to reconsider my entire army build and devise new tactics from ground up by being so mind blowingly new and innovative I will begin thinking they gave me an entirely new army instead of an update.

Anything short of that I'm just going to consider it as proof that GW squatted sisters, unofficially if you want but it still counts as squatting. After all the work they did on Dark Eldar and Necron (remember the old Necron codex? The one with _NINE UNITS_? Look at what they did with _that_) anything less than that on sisters is simply unacceptable.


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## Zion

Mokuren said:


> Am I the only one that believes receiving a codex with the very same sisters since 1996 will make for a huge pile of shit?
> 
> We currently have the only army that has less model stamps than friggin' Space Marines, we don't just need more head sculpts and bolters that aren't part of their bodies (they are both still very necessary, of course), we also need a reimagining of sisters themselves.
> 
> Sisters on bikes, assault sisters, terminator sisters, sisters on skimmers, more vehicles, more ICs and more options for them. Look at the goddamn WDdex, we have _one_ troop choice, which consists of _the exact same models that constitute our elites, fast attack and heavy support choices_ with seraphim and repentia being the _only_ exceptions, not even Space Marines have the exact same model for almost all infantry units, and they're the stereotypical samey army!
> 
> I want the next sisters dex to _force_ me to reconsider my entire army build and devise new tactics from ground up by being so mind blowingly new and innovative I will begin thinking they gave me an entirely new army instead of an update.
> 
> Anything short of that I'm just going to consider it as proof that GW squatted sisters, unofficially if you want but it still counts as squatting. After all the work they did on Dark Eldar and Necron (remember the old Necron codex? The one with _NINE UNITS_? Look at what they did with _that_) anything less than that on sisters is simply unacceptable.


You make great points. I honestly was looking at the BARE minimum.

Though I don't know if I want Terminator Sisters. Artificer Armor with built in Refractor Fields would be a nice option for Celestians though (same thing for the statline, but less bulky).


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## Arcane

Great news, I talked with the guys on Forgeworld, mentioning how the Repressor lacked Shield of Faith and they confirmed Neil from the writing team was fixing it currently.


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## Mokuren

Zion said:


> You make great points. I honestly was looking at the BARE minimum.


I understand and agree about the BARE minimum, the problem is that getting only the BARE minimum would be inexcusable.

I mean, the Necron overhaul was probably one of the biggest changes a 40K army ever got, and they turned a boring only-one-type-of-robot army with no defining factors into a complex, heavily customizable army full of models and capable of tackling different specialties. The re-imagining of Dark Eldar was less drastic in comparison but the amount of new and fresh models _and_ rules was amazing, and very well welcome.

_In this light_ it's completely unacceptable for sisters to get anything less than that in a new codex.



Arcane said:


> Though I don't know if I want Terminator Sisters. Artificer Armor with built in Refractor Fields would be a nice option for Celestians though (same thing for the statline, but less bulky).


Preferences, I suppose. Terminator armour is basically just very heavy and bulky armour meant for boarding actions and fighting in confined quarters, which is mostly used by Space Marines because they compensate the inability to get more than one person in the same corridor with the fact they are, well, space marines, turning their bulk into an advantage.

I don't think it's much of a stretch to have something equivalent for human troopers as well, the Fantasy Flight RPG line already contemplates stats for human-sized terminator armour and I believe it makes sense.



Arcane said:


> Great news, I talked with the guys on Forgeworld, mentioning how the Repressor lacked Shield of Faith and they confirmed Neil from the writing team was fixing it currently.


I love the repressor, since rhinos aren't a MUST BUY any longer (though in this edition flyers took their place, but eh) I was considering getting one of those for moving troops about, and the rumours about FW stuff being officially official and FW codexes gives me high hopes.


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## Zion

Arcane said:


> Great news, I talked with the guys on Forgeworld, mentioning how the Repressor lacked Shield of Faith and they confirmed Neil from the writing team was fixing it currently.


Ah cool! I don't use them personally, but they are neat models with neat rules!

Now if we could just get some flyers beyond the Arvus Lighter....


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## SilverTabby

Sakura_ninja said:


> I call them not around since 2nd ed, but still popular during 3rd and 4th, sisters aren't/weren't


The Witch Hunter Codex was on a par with Daemonhunters and Dark Eldar during 3rd / 4th. Yes, I do know this as a fact, from HQ presentations given on the topic. 


bitsandkits said:


> i think they will be worth the wait, jes goodwin has never produced a bad model and lets be fair the entire 40k hobby revolves around him and his concepts,Just as an excercise the next time your in a gw store goto the 40k section and just pick up 10 randome boxes and see how many have his name listed as the designer/sculptor, if hes over seeing sisters you are in for a treat, a slow treat but a treat all the same. Dude also invented the skaven.


The Dark Eldar were in production for over 5 years, I remember seeing concepts and greens for DE on his desk back in 2006/7. Jez took a lot of care and attention getting them right. I have faith in his work (and most of my favourite models are his). 



Mokuren said:


> Am I the only one that believes receiving a codex with the very same sisters since 1996 will make for a huge pile of shit?
> 
> Sisters on bikes, assault sisters, terminator sisters, sisters on skimmers, more vehicles, more ICs and more options for them. Look at the goddamn WDdex, we have _one_ troop choice, which consists of _the exact same models that constitute our elites, fast attack and heavy support choices_ with seraphim and repentia being the _only_ exceptions, not even Space Marines have the exact same model for almost all infantry units, and they're the stereotypical samey army!
> 
> Anything short of that I'm just going to consider it as proof that GW squatted sisters, unofficially if you want but it still counts as squatting. After all the work they did on Dark Eldar and Necron (remember the old Necron codex? The one with _NINE UNITS_? Look at what they did with _that_) anything less than that on sisters is simply unacceptable.


A lot of the Marine Codex is "marines with different guns" or "marines with jump packs". It's the speciality codeces that have different models :wink:

Still, look at every codex (and indeed Army Book) that has come out recently. _Massive_ overhauls, beautiful new figures, huge expansion on old stuff. They either won't break that and our 'dex when it arrives will be awesome, or they simply won't release it. 

Also, bear in mind the real world situation right now, and what the Sisters are. Do GW really want the backlash of little Timmy bringing home a book about religious fanatics who have no compunction about blowing themselves up for their religion, and murdering anyone else who doesn't follow it? Yes it's just a game, but some things need to be taken into consideration. This is a book about an army that is _entirely_ religious in nature, unlike any of the other Imperial forces. Timing on the release of this book will have to be very carefully done. Marketing on this book will have to be carefully done. Religion is a huge bone of contention nowadays, and done wrong could be disastrous.


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## bitsandkits

Just make sure they dont sell it to anyone named Timmy and GW are home and dry, simple problem solved! i should work in government as a trouble shooter.


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## nevynxxx

bitsandkits said:


> Just make sure they dont sell it to anyone named Timmy and GW are home and dry, simple problem solved! i should work in government as a trouble shooter.


That's definitely the right attitude for a govn't role


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## Zion

Mokuren said:


> I understand and agree about the BARE minimum, the problem is that getting only the BARE minimum would be inexcusable. _That's a fair assessment. I'm okay if the basic Sister doesn't change much on overall design, but I agree that the army as a whole needs some vast expansion.
> _
> I mean, the Necron overhaul was probably one of the biggest changes a 40K army ever got, and they turned a boring only-one-type-of-robot army with no defining factors into a complex, heavily customizable army full of models and capable of tackling different specialties. The re-imagining of Dark Eldar was less drastic in comparison but the amount of new and fresh models and rules was amazing, and very well welcome. _I also agree that those two did get massive overhauls that were much deserved and much needed AND that the Sisters need to at least match that spirit of expansion, though I don't think the Sisters need much changed in terms of background, there is a good amount of it there from the old books, but we need more involvement in the Imperium as a whole. As it is I've had conversations with a friend who insists Sisters don't -do- anything in the majority of the universe. Not to mention the idea that I see cropping up from time to time that they don't need to be more than an option you can ally in since they're not really connected to the universe as a whole. Those are both things I'd love to see squashed in the next update!_
> 
> In this light it's completely unacceptable for sisters to get anything less than that in a new codex. _Considering the pressures of the Devs I overall agree, but at the same time don't want a Ward-Dex of Sisters using Guardsmen blood to battle Chaos._
> 
> 
> 
> Preferences, I suppose. Terminator armour is basically just very heavy and bulky armour meant for boarding actions and fighting in confined quarters, which is mostly used by Space Marines because they compensate the inability to get more than one person in the same corridor with the fact they are, well, space marines, turning their bulk into an advantage. _To be fair, Marines start off the size of small cars and move up to the size of larger cars when they wear TDA. Sisters on the otherhand don't rely on their weight as much as their martial prowess and ability to shoot someone before they get to swing._
> 
> I don't think it's much of a stretch to have something equivalent for human troopers as well, the Fantasy Flight RPG line already contemplates stats for human-sized terminator armour and I believe it makes sense. _I think straight-up TDA just puts us back into the category of Diet Marines. Yes, technically Sisters basically just are Marines with some lowered stats and nifty powers they can tap into by believing hard enough (Take that Orks! It takes a large number of you for believing in things to work, it only takes one Sister to do the same!), but with an expansion there are ways to move away from this to get us out of their shadow._
> 
> 
> 
> I love the repressor, since rhinos aren't a MUST BUY any longer (though in this edition flyers took their place, but eh) I was considering getting one of those for moving troops about, and the rumours about FW stuff being officially official and FW codexes gives me high hopes. _I love the idea of FW being added to the bigger game. With the supplements from FW, and the rumors of WD being used to keep codexes fresh with new toys from time to time the game could grow a lot less stagnant in how it plays._


Sorry for taking so long for a reply there. Responses are in _yellow_ as always.



SilverTabby said:


> A lot of the Marine Codex is "marines with different guns" or "marines with jump packs". It's the speciality codeces that have different models :wink: _To be fair, they get more customizablity than we do. Without spending a lot of time hacking apart pewter models out options of "wears backpack", "doesn't wear backpack" on most of our models. They at least get custom shoulder pads and upgrade kits._
> 
> Still, look at every codex (and indeed Army Book) that has come out recently. _Massive_ overhauls, beautiful new figures, huge expansion on old stuff. They either won't break that and our 'dex when it arrives will be awesome, or they simply won't release it. _That's why I look forward to seeing what the next codex brings! _
> 
> Also, bear in mind the real world situation right now, and what the Sisters are. Do GW really want the backlash of little Timmy bringing home a book about religious fanatics who have no compunction about blowing themselves up for their religion, and murdering anyone else who doesn't follow it? Yes it's just a game, but some things need to be taken into consideration. This is a book about an army that is _entirely_ religious in nature, unlike any of the other Imperial forces. Timing on the release of this book will have to be very carefully done. Marketing on this book will have to be carefully done. Religion is a huge bone of contention nowadays, and done wrong could be disastrous. _I've thought about this and I think the best way to handle it isn't to shy away from them or their religious dogma but make sure it's played in the right light. In their own codex at least they should be seen as Holy Defenders of the Imperium, whose absolute faith in the Emperor gives them the strength they need to protect humanity from the worst things of the galaxy.
> 
> Yes religion is a touchy subject, but so is everything else these days in our squeaky clean PC world.
> 
> People forget that the Sisters are more than "Nuns with Guns", they're capable fighters, able to defend their position so well not even SPACE MARINES could dig them out. They draw strength from their faith in a figure who sacrificed himself in his efforts to not only save Humanity as a whole, but his own son. But in the end that isn't all of who they are.
> 
> They don't seek death, but accept it willingly and with grace when the time comes, holding the line until they've run out of ammo and breath.
> 
> The Sisters aren't religious fanatics as much as they are strong willed women who are religious.
> 
> 
> If GW does a good job this will come across, and I think they should try and make it a point too. The Sisters may be the militant arm of the church, but they are by no means just religious fanatics, but rather stalwart defenders of what it means to be human and to put your faith into something greater than yourself and then defend it with your last breath._


TL;DR: Don't make Sisters Religious Fantatics, make them Militant Warriors who are Religious.


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## asianavatar

Model wise I don't think we are that far off. Look at the Grey Knights their stuff is made up of 2 kits.

We definitely need new kits, but we don't need terminators or bikes. What I would like to see.

HQ -

The special characters are nice and the normal Canoness model. But some kind of HQ priest, almost like an Inquisitor type model would be nice. It wouldn't have to be this amazing combat character but more of an army buff character, think Guard characters or a Tau Ethereal except not crap. So you can choose to go the combat character or the army buff character.

Troops -

Sisters with all transport options, rhinos, repressors and maybe chimeras. Also 20 sisters in a squad should get more weapon options.

Some kind of large mob unit. Kind of like chaos cultists or imperial guardsmen conscripts. There used to be a White Dwarf article where Witch Hunters had these fanatical type units with crappy weapons and flamers.

Fast Attack -

Seraphim are fine along with the Dominions. My only suggestion is to put Penitent engines into Fast Attack category. 

Maybe some kind of flyer transport would be cool. Valkyries would work for me. 

Elites -

Celstians need to be something to make them different. Maybe a better armour or a better weapon skill or something. Model wise I have no issues with them looking the same. I am pretty sure they could be made from the same kits with just extra bits to differentiate them. I definitely do not want Sister's in terminator armour.

Repentia are fine along with the Priest units of crusaders, dca assassins etc.

Heavy - 
Exorcists are fine along with the retributor squads. Maybe so kind of bigger crazier penitent engine type thing. 

Personally, I think a focus on the whole Imperial Church with sisters playing a large part in it would give more a varied look to the army. The Sisters would be the main fighting force but you would get a lot of crazy support units. I almost think of it as a Chaos type army, your main fighting troops are the chaos marines, but you can get all these other crazy things to support them. Same with sisters, your are getting the Sisters to be your main bread and butter, but I can see the Church having other things just to help even the odds in certain fights. 

But definitely a new plastic kit is a must. If it was like a grey knight kit, 10 sisters with the ability to build different weapons and different capes and stuff would work perfectly fine for me. GW could litterly make 2 sprues of guys and throw in a troop weapon sprue and a heavy weapon sprue depending on the box set and you would be good to go.


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## SilverTabby

To be fair Zion, your description of the Emperor just made him into God / Jesus. So you see what problems there are, even when you're trying to *not* be real-worldy.

And Repentia and Arcoflaggellants *are* actively seeking death. 

I'm not saying it's impossible to do, I'm just saying that, with the Emperor already mirroring Christ a fair bit, it needs to be delicately handled writing his Church.


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## Suijin

bitsandkits said:


> sisters are not order-able by indie companies, they havent been for well over a year.its nothing new, and if you order them direct they no longer come in the old style packing, its just a GW generic white box.


I've ordered immolators a few months ago, and I'm pretty sure I could get other things. Then again Fantasy Flight probably has a good relationship with GW, but I don't see why others couldn't order too.


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## Zion

SilverTabby said:


> To be fair Zion, your description of the Emperor just made him into God / Jesus. So you see what problems there are, even when you're trying to *not* be real-worldy. _It's not my fault that's how he was written. I was just relating it straight forward to the army._
> 
> And Repentia and Arcoflaggellants *are* actively seeking death. _Repentia are seeking redemption. Not all of them die, some of them actually are returned to the fold. Do they tackle nigh-impossible tasks? Yes, but in all fairness they often suceed too (many die in the process, but considering they're running about in basically rags with a massive chainsword the fact that they accomplish ANYTHING should be seen as a miracle).
> 
> Arco-flaggellants (and by extension Penitent Engines) are criminals of the worst sort who are gaining redemption through their service to the Church. Granted the only way to escape it is death, but seeing as the criminals are basically trapped in their own minds and are along for the ride it's not like they have much of a choice.
> _
> I'm not saying it's impossible to do, I'm just saying that, with the Emperor already mirroring Christ a fair bit, it needs to be delicately handled writing his Church. _Oh, I agree. I was just trying to offer a perspective in which to start from. One that doesn't cast the Sisters are religious Fanatics who needlessly plunge onto the enemy's blades but as capable fighters whose faith in the Emperor helps them achieve the impossible. Will they die? Inevitably, sure. But not without cause or reason. To protect their fellow Sisters or to stop true evil they'll willingly lay down their lives, but not without one hell of a fight first._


If it isn't apparent, I'm a big Sisters fan, and I want them to be out NOW. but more importantly I want them to be RIGHT.


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## Suijin

It's not like a bunch of killer robots, DE, demons, chaos marines, and even the SM imperium as a whole are all that friendly (they kill any that either just oppose or are different). Any of those isn't really PC take your pick.


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## Zion

Suijin said:


> It's not like a bunch of killer robots, DE, demons, chaos marines, and even the SM imperium as a whole are all that friendly (they kill any that either just oppose or are different). Any of those isn't really PC take your pick.


I agree completely. Yes the Sisters are capable of being a hot button issue, but as long as GW stays away from treating them like nutcases who worship someone vaguely like Christ we should really have any actual issues.

EDIT: Just wanted to mention pictures of a Sisters army actually made it into the GW Blog today! Sadly it also shares space with two Grey Knights armies though.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=3000044


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## SilverTabby

Here's a random thought for more variation:

Basic Sisters in their corsets are in carapace armour (as, to be frank, the armour implies). Cost is cut down, armament is the same, with whatever options are given.
Pay more for basic Sisters and they can be upgraded to power armour. Figures are bulkier and it's proper unaugmented power armour. Loadout is similar, with more / different options.
Celestians get Artificier armour. It's duly more ornate and bulky, with even better / close combat options. Also give them the option for power armour instead.
Seraphim can take the lighter armour option and be on mounts instead like Rough Riders.

Adding another layer of points costs and Armour instantly offers more options, without even changing the basic structure. Add in cultist equivalents and other vehicular options, and you've tripled what's available and given elite / horde options... 

Thoughts?


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## Zion

SilverTabby said:


> Here's a random thought for more variation:
> 
> Basic Sisters in their corsets are in carapace armour (as, to be frank, the armour implies). Cost is cut down, armament is the same, with whatever options are given.
> Pay more for basic Sisters and they can be upgraded to power armour. Figures are bulkier and it's proper unaugmented power armour. Loadout is similar, with more / different options.
> Celestians get Artificier armour. It's duly more ornate and bulky, with even better / close combat options. Also give them the option for power armour instead.
> Seraphim can take the lighter armour option and be on mounts instead like Rough Riders.
> 
> Adding another layer of points costs and Armour instantly offers more options, without even changing the basic structure. Add in cultist equivalents and other vehicular options, and you've tripled what's available and given elite / horde options...
> 
> Thoughts?


Instead of bulier I'd kinda like to see the army move more towards more like the suits of armor from the Middle Ages. Armored gauntlets instead of gloves would be a nice touch to start with, and changing the armor over to a kind of plate mail (obviously arranged to allow the Sisters to bend over by having the chest section overlap the midsection) could go a long way to making them look less like they're running around in lingerie and more like the well equipped army they are.

Either way some consideration needs to be taken into account in making sure the armor is wider than "skin tight" on the girls so that we don't have to assume they're anorexic just to be a Sister.

That and I think Repentia should be adjusted to look more like they're wearing the remains of their robes rather than the actual armor (since it's more fitting for them and less bondagey), and ditch the boots. Yes boots would be useful, but when you're bent on seeking forgiveness by any means necessary I'd assume you'd be willing to ditch the shoes for discomfort and pain as part of the redemption process (basically stealing a note from Mother Teresa there, that suffering brings you closer to holiness). Some consideration into making the Repentia look like women who have seen combat (i.e. scars) and like they're in shape (i.e. actual muscualar defenition. These need to look like women who can break a man's arm in a fight, not like someone who could easily be overpowered by someone bigger).

Suprisingly these are just some thoughts off the top of my head. I've thought about a few of them before (like a move to a more Middle Ages suit of armor style for the Sister's armor) but a lot of this is just stuff I just did stream of consciousness style.


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## SilverTabby

A lot of the more recent sculpts have gauntlets. All the conversion work I'm currrently doing, the weapons are held in articulated armoured gloves instead of cloth. It's a small detail, but one that's there. 

And yes, the current Repentia are from the age when sculptors could get away with no actual muscle definition. Just look at the Arcoflaggellants for some of the stuff they got away with. They are scarred though. I'm still not touching them for 40k with a bargepole, and building my own from DE Wyches instead.

Have you ever tried fighting in plate armour? I'd be up for something slightly more medievil, but nothing like the real stuff: it's built for protection, not ease of fighting (unless you don't mind the girls dropping to WS2 :wink: )


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## Zion

SilverTabby said:


> A lot of the more recent sculpts have gauntlets. All the conversion work I'm currrently doing, the weapons are held in articulated armoured gloves instead of cloth. It's a small detail, but one that's there.
> 
> And yes, the current Repentia are from the age when sculptors could get away with no actual muscle definition. Just look at the Arcoflaggellants for some of the stuff they got away with. They are scarred though. I'm still not touching them for 40k with a bargepole, and building my own from DE Wyches instead.
> 
> Have you ever tried fighting in plate armour? I'd be up for something slightly more medievil, but nothing like the real stuff: it's built for protection, not ease of fighting (unless you don't mind the girls dropping to WS2 :wink: )


I haven't fought in plate mail but I have done a lot of stuff in full kit (IOTV, ect) and while it has it's restrictions, the weight is close to your body and doesn't nearly affect you as much as people assume. As long as the joints are unimpeded the rest isn't as big of an issue. And I think that somethings illustrate that full plate isn't necessarily as bad as people assume it is to move and fight in:

http://youtu.be/8WmFvQAEelM

(sorry, still suck at this embedding videos thing).

Seeing as it's still power armor, and they train to fight in it, I'm sure it wouldn't be nearly as restricting as we assume anyways. Yes it isn't like a second skin like the Marine armor (just means they lack the kind of sensory input and awareness the Marine armor offers and instead have to rely on sight, sound and any sensory devices in their helmets), but when you've trained how to work around the limitations of the equipment you use it becomes second nature anyways. 

Long case short: I'm talking about style more than in function.


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## Arcane

SilverTabby said:


> Here's a random thought for more variation:
> 
> Basic Sisters in their corsets are in carapace armour (as, to be frank, the armour implies). Cost is cut down, armament is the same, with whatever options are given.
> Pay more for basic Sisters and they can be upgraded to power armour. Figures are bulkier and it's proper unaugmented power armour. Loadout is similar, with more / different options.
> Celestians get Artificier armour. It's duly more ornate and bulky, with even better / close combat options. Also give them the option for power armour instead.
> Seraphim can take the lighter armour option and be on mounts instead like Rough Riders.
> 
> Adding another layer of points costs and Armour instantly offers more options, without even changing the basic structure. Add in cultist equivalents and other vehicular options, and you've tripled what's available and given elite / horde options...
> Thoughts?


I really like this Idea but one problem is that it would require more sculpts, which is the root of the problem right now. If GW is willing to do the work it would be awesome and flesh out the army.

Personally I really like the Repentia models sans Mistress aand see no need to change them. Also there doesn't need to be a vast overhaul of the Sister's overall design and warddrobe This whole formm/function thing is silly, it's a fictional game set in an absurd future setting. All the design needs to be is true to the aestetic of the SoB and please the fans/suppporters of the range.


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## Zion

Arcane said:


> I really like this Idea but one problem is that it would require more sculpts, which is the root of the problem right now. If GW is willing to do the work it would be awesome and flesh out the army. _More sculpts versus solid pewter brick models? Yeah, we're going to need a number of new sculpts anyways. At least this idea merits some creativity in how an army looks other than copying and pasting the design to every FOC slot._
> 
> Personally I really like the Repentia models sans Mistress aand see no need to change them. _Personally I love how they play, but don't understand why they're basically wearing something akin to bondage gear. But then again I wouldn't have noticed if the internet hadn't pointed it out either. _Also there doesn't need to be a vast overhaul of the Sister's overall design and warddrobe This whole formm/function thing is silly, it's a fictional game set in an absurd future setting. All the design needs to be is true to the aestetic of the SoB and please the fans/suppporters of the range. _No there doesn't NEED to, but there are small things that bother me. Like the cleavage plate they wear (the shape funnels bullets TOWARDS the heart which isn't good for the survivability of the wearer :/). I'm not looking for a massive overhaul in design though. A small one with armored gauntlets instead of gloves, and slightly thicker torsos so they don't look like they painted their armor on is all I'm really pushing for.
> 
> Besides, if it looks good enough (and_ *if*_ Jez is doing them it will), then it won't matter what changes he makes as long as the basic outfit is the same (shoulder pads, sleeves, tunics, armor that doesn't make them look like small cars, helmets I've seen referred to as "panty helmets") the small changes won't hurt the army but improve the overall asthetic and anyone who complains about better looking models is just being petty._


And yes, I've seen the helmets being commented on that it looks like the Sisters are wearing panties on their heads. This comes from the 3/4 view of the helmet mostly I think:


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## Arcane

Oh cmon that's just childish.. Basicaly you're saying your image of the SoB has been twisted by 4chan and other immature audiences. Yes, they have something akin to bondage gear but iit's the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, not Call of Duty. It's not supposed to be cut and dry military gear, regardless of the era. And panties... really? The helmet don't look like panties on the model and you know it. They are based on the gothic sallet style medieval helmet and imo look very cool.


----------



## Sakura_ninja

They do actually look like panties on heads, I had never noticed till now, not allot like gothic sallets, oh well, when gw care they might bother fixing that...I doubt it, sisters are gone.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Sakura_ninja said:


> They do actually look like panties on heads, I had never noticed till now, not allot like gothic sallets, oh well, when gw care they might bother fixing that...I doubt it, sisters are gone.


And the post positive post on the forums award goes tooooo..... Someone else :laugh:


----------



## Sakura_ninja

Karyudo-DS said:


> And the post positive post on the forums award goes tooooo..... Someone else :laugh:


What has positive got to do with anything?, you really think GW will put resources into a minority army?, rarely played, rarely cared about, rarely mentioned (unless being raped by matt wards New sexual fantasy), why would a company keep them?, its like any company in existence, if something earns no money, you drop the product, that's business, gw would earn more money unfortunately making more marines than wasting time on silly little armies


----------



## scscofield

You just made his post all that more funny actually.


----------



## Zion

Arcane said:


> Oh cmon that's just childish.. Basicaly you're saying your image of the SoB has been twisted by 4chan and other immature audiences. _No, just that specific image. The actual models and most of the images are fine, but that PATICULAR image looks a bit silly in that context._
> 
> Yes, they have something akin to bondage gear but iit's the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, not Call of Duty. It's not supposed to be cut and dry military gear, regardless of the era. _Personally I don't care what the purpose of it is, the form should match the function. If you're running out into combat in rags it really shouldn't look like something that belongs in a adult novelty shop._
> 
> And panties... really? The helmet don't look like panties on the model and you know it. _Normally I'd agree, but in that image it does look a bit silly when you've heard that.
> 
> _They are based on the gothic sallet style medieval helmet and imo look very cool. _The models look great, but then again you can see the whole helmet._





Sakura_ninja said:


> What has positive got to do with anything?, you really think GW will put resources into a minority army?, rarely played, rarely cared about, rarely mentioned (unless being raped by matt wards New sexual fantasy), why would a company keep them?, its like any company in existence, if something earns no money, you drop the product, that's business, gw would earn more money unfortunately making more marines than wasting time on silly little armies


Nothing personal, but what makes you a definitive expert what GW will and will not do? Are you part of a board or a committee that makes these sorts of decisions? 

And seeing as I've PERSONALLY spent over $1K in Sisters (plus shipping >>) in the last year and a half on Sisters direct from GW I wouldn't say they make NO money. Heck they even made it into the main rule book (we got more fluff this time than Grey Knights! We got a PAGE (plus the 2nd Edition rulebook cover, plus the two pages of models) they got a PARAGRAPH! (and a page of models with the group shot of models page) giving us 4 pages to their 3. :biggrin.

Am I an exception to the rule? Perhaps, but damn it I'm not rolling over and just crying about my army's future. I am damned sure that an update is coming in the future and when arrives I'm rubbing people's faces in it like the complete Yank I am (since we tend to be poor winners :laugh.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Yes does seem a bit odd that a dead and gone army is still very much included in the 6th edition rulebook.


----------



## Zion

Magpie_Oz said:


> Yes does seem a bit odd that a dead and gone army is still very much included in the 6th edition rulebook.


Since the Sisters got more space than the Grey Knights does that mean the Grey Knights will get squatted first?


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Zion said:


> Since the Sisters got more space than the Grey Knights does that mean the Grey Knights will get squatted first?


Only the very specially retarded would take the current situation as to the Sisters to be an indication that the army is to be disbanded, so yes the GK's being squatted is much more likely.


----------



## boreas

Last year's WD codex was the closest thing to a sign SoB were getting ditched. The less than stellar army with zero release made me sell my army... Now, with a bit more showcasing in 6th ed. book, I'm not so sure anymore! 

Anyways, I hope they do come back. I hope they do keep the very gothic armors with corsets, gloves, sallets and all. It doesn't make any sense, but then again lots of things don't in 40k. I also hope they make the full-fledged ecclesiarchy freak-show with cool models. 

Phil


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Sakura_ninja said:


> ...if something earns no money, you drop the product, that's business, gw would earn more money unfortunately making more marines than wasting time on silly little armies


Well last I checked the only dropped army has been the squats even though we suspected Dark Eldar were as well for about a decade. Yet here they are.



boreas said:


> Last year's WD codex was the closest thing to a sign SoB were getting ditched.


It could have been an experiment too that simply failed. I would guess SoB might not be high on their list of things to fix up, but that doesn't mean it wont happen. It just might be awhile. I hope they get a real book eventually too. I still remember their hobby pictures in the 3rd ed book...partly because I still have it nice and safe, so to me, they're part of 40k. Least until someone specifically says they've been eaten by the Squats or something.


----------



## boreas

Well, with allies in 6th ed, SoB have a better chance of coming back. I figure High-risks armies are less of a gamble for GW now. Quite a few IG/SM(and variants)/GKs players might pick up a few units even if the whole army doesn't sell that much as a primary army.

Phil


----------



## scscofield

If they released something other than metal models I would get some to ally with my daughter's gk army she is building. She would love it.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

boreas said:


> Last year's WD codex was the closest thing to a sign SoB were getting ditched.


You mean like the Blood Angles had as well? I reckon a WD Codex is just a precursor to keep the faith while the army is sorted out properly.


----------



## boreas

Magpie_Oz said:


> You mean like the Blood Angles had as well? I reckon a WD Codex is just a precursor to keep the faith while the army is sorted out properly.


Quite possible, although lots of BA did complain about their WD codex as well... The thing is, though, BA aren't squattable by any measure. And their army, being based on SM models, was easier to re-do. Sisters will be a bigger risk and a bigger investment for GW. 

Not saying Sisters will be squatted for sure, only saying that WD codex didn't raise my hopes, far from it. And even that 6th ed. rulebook presence reminds that there's a long way from the cup to the lips...


----------



## Arcane

boreas said:


> Last year's WD codex was the closest thing to a sign SoB were getting ditched. The less than stellar army with zero release made me sell my army... Now, with a bit more showcasing in 6th ed. book, I'm not so sure anymore!
> 
> Anyways, I hope they do come back. I hope they do keep the very gothic armors with corsets, gloves, sallets and all. It doesn't make any sense, but then again lots of things don't in 40k. I also hope they make the full-fledged ecclesiarchy freak-show with cool models.
> 
> Phil


This! :goodpost:

Although, I won't ever sell my SoB army. I've spent too much money and time collecting it all and putting it together. On that holiest of holy days when they get a new codex, I will brush the dust off them and show up at my FLGS like the Emperor himself, risen from his Golden Throne, old models and new models shall stand together and the entire Galaxy shall know the true might of the Echliesiarchy and Adeptus Sororitas!


----------



## Eleven

i'm pretty sure that all of the rumors in this thread are never going to happen unless they do so by chance.


----------



## Troublehalf

I have a friend who is a GW store manager, and I've talked to him about this issue a lot. He just says "Look at BA, they got a WD codex, then 18 months later they got a proper release" - Yes it's a lot simplier to do ANOTHER SM army, but have they actually thought doing a proper SoB might increase people playing it? I'm sure a lot of female players would love the chance to play as SoB and have fun with them. I want them because they are so unique, but won't get any until 1. I've finished my Lizardmen army (My health is so poor now, that won't be for awhile) or 2. They get a proper update. 

I see no point in them being in the 6th Ed if they were going to get rid of them.... They are a huge part of the lore... It'll be 4 years or so until the next edition... Perhaps they'll be gone by then... Matt Ward has already retconned them from hundreds of millions to a few thousand.... Brutally killed and maimed them... Have entire Orders destroyed by a few Chaos... Having Dreadnoughts shrug off melta fire and bombs and only a Saint giving up her Sainthood could it be stopped.... Yeah, I think he probably is the only thing stopping it from being updated, he has a weird fixation with killing them.

I mean, in the 6th Ed rulebook, I was reading through it and it talks about how the World Eaters (I think) when they turned to Chaos, they went and destroyed loads of cathedrals and holy sites, destroying thousands of SoB on their own... I just shook my head and thought "Here we go again, let's show the SoB as weak and useless" It irritates me no end.

If they updated them, surely they'd just produce X amount of kits and not produce any more until they sold? The guns are the same as SM.... They use practically the same vehicles.... They don't have any aircraft, heavy tanks or many diverse units any more... Not exactly hard to update so little into plastic/fine cast.

I love SoB and the IG, the fact they are considered Battle Brothers (and for some reason SM and SoB are 'Allies of Convenience' for some strange reason.. and Black Templars are 'Keep One Eye Open' or whatever the blue one is.... Wut?).

I dunno... I'd hate to see them go... They are unique due to being female orientated, just normal, trained women, no superhuman genetics, no black carapace.... They are not female UltraSmurfs.... Which are basically individual Gods in Mat Wards eyes.


----------



## bitsandkits

whats with all the getting canned nonsense? the sisters are going no where, they are being worked on, they got a WD codex to tide players over until they get a full on expanded codex and a model range to go with it, the are a more popular army in terms of sales than necrons and DE ever were. And now with the allies rule every tom dick and harry will be ploughing cash into a unit or two of nuns with guns.
seriously stop worrying about them, they have a large fan base and are one of the armies people would most like to start if they were not metal, when they relaunch them they will sell by the truck load.


----------



## Sakura_ninja

Magpie_Oz said:


> Yes does seem a bit odd that a dead and gone army is still very much included in the 6th edition rulebook.


And that proves?....nothing exactly, if the range of models is still available of course they will show them, durr.

Zoats and squats were mentioned, that doesn't mean fuck all still, matt ward basically decides what does and does not exist now, or if the useless little fuckface is allowed to continue the next codex will have more sisters die, and the chaos codex will wipe them out


----------



## scscofield

Why are you coming to this thread and being so negative?


----------



## Sakura_ninja

scscofield said:


> Why are you coming to this thread and being so negative?


I already said, its got nothing to do with being negative, its being a realist.
You honestly think gw will keep a race they are happy to have written out of existence?, if gw gave a shit about anything you people thought do you really think they would approve matt wards insane retarded excuse for fluff?

Sisters, are, dead


----------



## scscofield

The thing in is your posts are adding nothing to the convo beyond wardhate and proclaiming SoB are dead. At this point they are just repetitive. The others in this thread feel differently. Your continued quasihate posts are not going to change this. So why do you continue to post?


----------



## Arcane

Sakura_ninja said:


> I already said, its got nothing to do with being negative, its being a realist.
> You honestly think gw will keep a race they are happy to have written out of existence?, if gw gave a shit about anything you people thought do you really think they would approve matt wards insane retarded excuse for fluff?
> 
> Sisters, are, dead


To be blunt, unless you started playing SoB when you were 9 you haven't been waiting as long as some of us. Also, just because you have given up, even playing as a whole, the rest of us haven't. While I appreciate your sentiment, and even sympathize with you, it's not like the rest of us are going to sell all our models and quite gaming just because you say they are dead. Don't get me wrong, I don't like Ward's work and I'm extremely unhappy with GW about it, but they aren't dead. 

Jez has been confirmed as working on the models at some time (they are sitting somewhere in the studio). They are included in the BRB, and FW still bothers to update their rules. 99% of models are available. All this leads to the evidence not supporting you.


----------



## Sakura_ninja

scscofield said:


> So why do you continue to post?


For the exact same reason everybody else does.

Although I bet nobody would moan if it was all happy happy imagination land bullshit, where I just say "yes sisters are getting new models, they must, I guarantee it, I looooooove sisters", but that ain't gonna happen, I'll say what I think is true because its my opinion right or wrong, and if you want to sit there crying like a bitch because somebody said something you don't like then I suggest you get off the internet, because I got some bad news for you, peoples opinions can and do go against yours.

And I dunno why your moaning I say the same thing, your responses to each and every post I make is practically worded that I need to say the same thing over again, because you just can't accept the fact I'm never going to agree with anyone that sisters will get attention, and I honestly don't think that

Man up and live with it, I've said what I believe, and don't care if you cry about it


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Magpie_Oz said:


> Only the very specially retarded would take the current situation as to the Sisters to be an indication that the army is to be disbanded....


Still stands and being further confirmed as the thread goes on.


----------



## scscofield

I'm not moaning or any of that other aggressivly spiteful stuff you posted. I am pointing out that you said your stance on this multiple times now, everyone got the message. They decided to continue on. At this point by repeating yourself you are personally attacking the rest of the thread. We all got and understood your stance the first time you posted.


----------



## Sakura_ninja

scscofield said:


> I am pointing out that you said your stance on this multiple times now


Really?
Page 10 was a 1 liner that made no obvious reference to any stance
Page 11 was a 1 liner answering a question to page 10, but still not long enough to make a stance
Page 14 was a longer post with references to my stance
And page 16 was a longer post with reference to my stance and in response to another post, another longer post in response to your query, and another in response to your wuery and now this one in response to your query.

Stop moaning about multiple posts by you asking "why, why, why" and then complaining when somebody has to repeat themself because you couldn't accept the first reason why and then to moan they said the same thing is hilarious, stop asking for the same answer and it stops, just read the first one and then stop asking, my number of posts with a negative opinion are relatively light in number compared to some repeating the same positive opinion, and allot less than your baiting.


----------



## Necrosis

Alright lets go back to talking about sisters.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Necrosis said:


> Alright lets go back to talking about sisters.


When they do come out, what sort of mini's are you expecting to see?

i.e. How much plastic v Finecast any new characters etc.


----------



## Necrosis

I expect the basic troops and seraphims to be plastics, while the HQ and characters are fine cast, sort of like your typical gw army.


----------



## scscofield

Sounds good Necrosis, I tried something and it failed. My daughter wants one of those MCs the SoB have, looks sorta like a Dreadknight. Wants a dk too, she's 8 so it's more about what models she likes than gameplay.


----------



## Necrosis

They are called Penitent Engines. They are currently walkers but wouldn't be to surprised if they became monstrous creatures.


----------



## scscofield

Knew it was something to do with engines, didn't realize they were walkers. Hopefully those end up as plastic. She also wants the saint hq for obvious reasons, I almost got that one when I first started just to paint.


----------



## Necrosis

The Saint is a great model but it doesn't come with wings. I ordered my wings from the fantasy bits area.


----------



## scscofield

The fact it was metal and wings would need to be added is what stopped me from getting one. Was fighting getting tac squad arms and bolters to line up;p Assuming you used the Pegasus wings?


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Necrosis said:


> They are called Penitent Engines. They are currently walkers but wouldn't be to surprised if they became monstrous creatures.


Isn't that the one where the operator has her kit off, more or less?


----------



## Zion

Magpie_Oz said:


> Isn't that the one where the operator has her kit off, more or less?


That's the one where there is a person strapped to the front who committed some manner of serious crime and is now basically a massive Arco-Flaggelant.










For the record, that model is a REALLY big pain to assemble and KEEP assembled.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

OK, got her kit off more or less, as I thought :grin:


----------



## Zion

Magpie_Oz said:


> OK, got her kit off more or less, as I thought :grin:


There is an alternate body to put on the front (it's some generic male), but they don't have pictures of it on the GW site.


----------



## Grogbart

Magpie_Oz said:


> When they do come out, what sort of mini's are you expecting to see?
> 
> i.e. How much plastic v Finecast any new characters etc.


Hoping your question wasn't exclusively directed towards Necrosis, I'll dare to present my humble thoughts:

Plastic Sisters for Battle, Dominion and Retributor Squads.
Nothing against units sharing same stats using same models!

More ornamented Sister models for Celestians and Seraphim.

Perhaps, if the new Codex were to include Canonesses, generic Saints and Elite choice Palatines, it would be enough to justify a combined plastic set for all three. (wishful thinking, I know:fool
Otherwise finecast, as with special characters. (usually eight, isn't it?)

Should Fratris Militia Zealots return, they might be plastic, cause they'll need to be quite numerous!?

Repentia, Penitent Engines, Confessor, Priests, Conclaves and non-militant Sisters will be fincast.

Tanks of course all in plastic, so new Exocist!
And I'd really like a remodeled Repressor in plastic. Remodeled not because the current one looks bad, but because I'd like it to look more fitting with the other Sororitas vehicles. (Especially the piece atop the usual Rhino, if you know what I mean!)

Not only are my views on that matter to be taken cautiously, because of the discrepancies between what I want/hope for and what makes sense (and again between what would make sense to us and what GW will actually do!), but also because I don't have the slightest clue about the matter and was just typing down my wishful gut-feelings!


While speculating on additions (Sisters riding Unicorns or similar...:wink

There's currently no blast markers in our army, big or small. What are your thoughts about, how best to change that (or how it'll likely be changed)?

I'd favor a vehicle based heavy mortar firing incendiary shells for a big blast and some incendiary grenade Launchers as special weapons for small blasts. Maybe even some heavy grenade launchers for Retributors and Immolators.
Would broaden our choice of weapons a bit without straying (too much) from the Bolter, Flamer, Melter-theme of the Sisters, or would it?


----------



## SilverTabby

Sakura_ninja said:


> I already said, its got nothing to do with being negative, its being a realist.
> You honestly think gw will keep a race they are happy to have written out of existence?, if gw gave a shit about anything you people thought do you really think they would approve matt wards insane retarded excuse for fluff?
> 
> Sisters, are, dead


If you are presenting your opinion as you claim, then please phrase your posts as opinion, not fact. And stop personally attacking those who respond, it's rude. 

Here is a fact, from someone with the actual experience and knowledge to back it up. Sisters are not being canned. If they were, they would not have been included in the BRB as anything other than a sidenote. 

On to happier, more positive things: 
There's no need to fork out masses of money for things like penitent engines, when a kit-bash between a sentinal and whatever else you have lying around will do the job (and not need so much pinning). Mine are crosses between sentinals and dreadnoughts, covered in purity seals. Given their low armour, you could make something akin to an Aliens powerloader, or use the dreadknight kit, there's no reason to feel bound by "these are the available models, so I *must* use these". I'll post up some stuff later if I get the chance.


----------



## nevynxxx

SilverTabby said:


> I'll post up some stuff later if I get the chance.


Ohh yes please


----------



## Sexxy Camera

Hey there guys,

It is not going to be a grey knight / BA style release but rather a Necron/DE style release. With the exception of several HQ units, which are getting done in fine cast, all the current models are getting redone in either fine cast or plastic. I have posted info on that.

That I know of there will be a several new fine cast HQ models, 1 fine cast elites set (the repenta) and NINE new plastic kits, three of which are inf. All of these will be released within a year of the release of the new dex, with the release being front loaded. 

All of the new plastic kits that I have knowledge of can be used to make several units (at least two.) This includes the inf kits. 

I have said all this before, of course.

I do not pretend to say I have seen everything that may be released. 

They are not getting squatted. No I don't know when they will be released.


----------



## Zion

Sexxy Camera said:


> Hey there guys,
> 
> It is not going to be a grey knight / BA style release but rather a Necron/DE style release. With the exception of several HQ units, which are getting done in fine cast, all the current models are getting redone in either fine cast or plastic. I have posted info on that.


Maybe I'm a little slow, but I really don't know the difference on those. All of those releases were done in waves so I'm not sure what the difference is.



Sexxy Camera said:


> That I know of there will be a several new fine cast HQ models, 1 fine cast elites set (the repenta) and NINE new plastic kits, three of which are inf. All of these will be released within a year of the release of the new dex, with the release being front loaded.


Finecast HQs are no brainer currently. There are VERY few plastic kit HQs right now so saying Finecast is like betting on both red and black at the craps table, you're going to be right 99% of the time.

Repentia getting a new model design AND finecast seems a little of to me. So far Finecast has been restricted to rereleases of metal models as far as I can tell, though I may be overlooking something.

Let's see here: 9 kits, only 3 are Infantry. Well that covers your basic Battle Sister/Celestian models, your Seraphim and your alternate models (maybe a Dominion/Retributor kit?). I'd love to hear what these other 6 models are because beyond an Exorcist and the Penitent Engine I can't even guess what you're claiming the others are going to be.

Again, releases being front loaded and second wave within a year is pretty predictable. That's pretty much GW's modus operandi for handling releases.



Sexxy Camera said:


> All of the new plastic kits that I have knowledge of can be used to make several units (at least two.) This includes the inf kits.


Again, I've thrown out my guesses, but you're not giving us anything definite to say "this is actually a rumor and not an educated guess"



Sexxy Camera said:


> I have said all this before, of course.
> 
> I do not pretend to say I have seen everything that may be released.
> 
> They are not getting squatted. No I don't know when they will be released.


Yes you did say it before, and again I'm still doubtful.

That's nice. Can you not pretend to give us actual information when the only thing you're providing is unconfirmable as facts? Rumors about releases need some kind of actual fat to them we can identify after the fact and go "this person was 100% right about this" instead of some vague Nostrodomus prediction.

No one with half a mind believes their getting squatted.

EDIT: I realized after posting this that I sound kind of dickish, and that's not my intent. It's just hard to not become jaded when you're strung along with rumors like this. There is JUST enough there to get you to pay attention but not enough to tell you that it's a real rumor and not someone just making educated guesses.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

SilverTabby said:


> If you are presenting your opinion as you claim, then please phrase your posts as opinion, not fact. And stop personally attacking those who respond, it's rude.


I think that's what trolls do. :dunno:

Just because one guy is butthurt he has to troll the rest of us because he can't figure out how to move on with his life. 



Zion said:


> Let's see here: 9 kits, only 3 are Infantry. Well that covers your basic Battle Sister/Celestian models, your Seraphim and your alternate models (maybe a Dominion/Retributor kit?). I'd love to hear what these other 6 models are because beyond an Exorcist and the Penitent Engine I can't even guess what you're claiming the others are going to be.


Aren't SoB sort of short on kits in general? I could see the logic of adding several more. Not that they may even exist yet, but yeah it does seem logical to beef them up a bit more if they were to stand on their own.


----------



## Zion

Karyudo-DS said:


> Aren't SoB sort of short on kits in general? I could see the logic of adding several more. Not that they may even exist yet, but yeah it does seem logical to beef them up a bit more if they were to stand on their own.


They are, but out of NINE kits, only THREE are infantry?

Let's see here: We have the Celestians (who REALLY do need something other than a bit of gold on their shoulders to help designate them as being different than the other Sisters), Repentia, Battle Sister Squads, Seraphim, Dominions (who NEED to come in sets with extra special weapons to be worth buying) and finally Retributors (who NEED to come in sets with extra heavy weapons to be worth buying) all who need Plastic Kits.

In addition we have the Penitent Engine and the Exorcist that need plastic kits too (both vehicles).

Now assuming both the Penitent Engine and the Exorcist get plastic kits that leaves 7 kits, but only THREE of those are going to be infantry? Even removing the HQs as Finecast, and the Repentia as Finecast that leaves a lot of models from the current line that need work. That's not counting any additional units that come out in the next codex.

So basically from Camera's count we're getting around 7 Vehicle kits (because we don't use MCs) in addition to the one kit we already have in plastic (Rhino/Immolator).

That's a lot of tank considering we're still short on flexibility in the troop options I think.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Zion said:


> So basically from Camera's count we're getting around 7 Vehicle kits (because we don't use MCs) in addition to the one kit we already have in plastic (Rhino/Immolator).
> 
> That's a lot of tank considering we're still short on flexibility in the troop options I think.


May not all be tank either though. I think Marines have at least 11 individual kits. The Rhino is in half of them of course, but you have the speeders, the talon, drop pod, and possibly now the raven (maybe, but not counting it). Of course with the new fortification rules maybe new Codex's will get some of those here on out. Hard to tell, the rumored next books are already covered.

So it's possible they could have that many vehicle kits, I would actually expect them to be modded SM/IG vehicles mostly (making it easier to make that many) but I would agree that there should be more infantry kits, unless they could sell some of the old ones still.


----------



## Zion

Karyudo-DS said:


> May not all be tank either though. I think Marines have at least 11 individual kits. The Rhino is in half of them of course, but you have the speeders, the talon, drop pod, and possibly now the raven (maybe, but not counting it). Of course with the new fortification rules maybe new Codex's will get some of those here on out. Hard to tell, the rumored next books are already covered.
> 
> So it's possible they could have that many vehicle kits, I would actually expect them to be modded SM/IG vehicles mostly (making it easier to make that many) but I would agree that there should be more infantry kits, unless they could sell some of the old ones still.


True, it may not be all tanks specifically, but regardless that's still a lot of potential vehicles (unless Seraphim aren't being counted in that roll-up since they're Jump Infantry which may gives us room for one more unit), but that's still a lot less in terms of boots on the ground than other armies unless we're looking at models being able to be used for 6 different squads still.

Either way with out some real details or some codex specific references (you know, concrete things that can be verified as right or wrong later) I just don't think we have enough to call these actual rumors yet.


----------



## SilverTabby

And again, Sexxy camera has said nothing that isn't logical conjecture. There is nothing in that post that isn't true of every release in the last few years, and GWs standard release policy. 

I reiterate the points I made about 18 pages ago, the chances he actually knows anything are infitessimally small. Sorry, I do wish it were otherwise but I'd feel bad not pointing this out.


----------



## Zion

SilverTabby said:


> And again, Sexxy camera has said nothing that isn't logical conjecture. There is nothing in that post that isn't true of every release in the last few years, and GWs standard release policy.
> 
> I reiterate the points I made about 18 pages ago, the chances he actually knows anything are infitessimally small. Sorry, I do wish it were otherwise but I'd feel bad not pointing this out.


You feel bad? Looking back on my posts I'd swear I was trying to imitate an angry baboon.

And it's not that I'm against rumors about the Sisters, in fact I usually use Google at LEAST once a week to see if their is anything new (Boolean searching is my friend :biggrin. However, given the usually rather percise manner in which rumors are doled out regarding specific things, these are too vague to draw any actual conclusions on. And the specifics we do have leave me scratching my head since they don't really make a lot of sense in context of the current army.


----------



## scscofield

Sexxy Camera's other handle is Mrs Cleo of the Psychic Friends Hotline.


----------



## Sexxy Camera

Ok, so I get blasted because my first rumors are to specific.

And then I am a little less specific, and I still get blasted. You guys can not make up your minds at all. 

Its funny, I share a big wad of information, and people say I am vague, and half the other 'reliable' rumor posters share a sentence that can be interpreted 10 different ways, are usually wrong, and are taken as accurate rumor posters.


----------



## spanner94ezekiel

I think people (as Zion said) are getting a little frustrated on Sisters rumours, as they've been strung out for too long - they don't know if they can trust these rumours anymore, so are going to be critical regardless. Don't take it personally is my advice, because what you're saying (for the most part) is perfectly plausible.


----------



## scscofield

Problem is no one believes you, my recommendation is to wait till what you say happens them come back and go 'I told you do!'


----------



## andrewm9

Sexxy Camera said:


> Ok, so I get blasted because my first rumors are to specific.
> 
> And then I am a little less specific, and I still get blasted. You guys can not make up your minds at all.
> 
> Its funny, I share a big wad of information, and people say I am vague, and half the other 'reliable' rumor posters share a sentence that can be interpreted 10 different ways, are usually wrong, and are taken as accurate rumor posters.


Don't take it too personally. Its the nature of the beast. Sisters players (myself included) tend to be a bit more testy than the average poster as people often poke the bear as it were. Our troops originally came out in 1997 and we are still using them 15 years later so we have been waiting awhile. I guess we are a little jaded in that regard so we take any rumors with a lot fo salt. We've been fooled before since usually when modeled are amde unavailabel and a codex is taken down the army is due for some replacement. Instead we got a PDF (followed up by a WD) and got our boxes of units broken up into more expensive single, dual, or 3 model blisters making it even more expensive to purchase.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

I think I remember a post from the good Silvertabby one time about SoB sales figures? I seem to remember they were low but not stand out so. 

Based on that I am hopeful that the sisters will be back in full glory but just delayed but uncertain times. Make some new Space Marines and the walk out the door, revamp the girls and it is a more risky prospect for your dough.


----------



## MadCowCrazy

Here is a copy/paste of what I gathered in the old SoB thread. These are from April 5th 2011.

Boxed Sets
Battle Sisters Box, plastic kit (Could be Celestian/Seraphim shared box)
5x Sisters or Seraphim
11 Heads, 5 bare, 5 helmeted and 1 with gasmask/respirator
Flamer, Melta Gun, Storm Bolter, Hand Flamer (both left and right hand), Inferno Gun(?) and Inferno Pistol (both left and right hand), Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Power Weapon, Chain Swords

Penitent Engine Box, plastic kit
4x Different CCW options, aesthetic only?
Flamer or Melta mounts under arms.
Several Driver choices
3 Icon Badges from major orders.
Miscellaneous scroll plates and extra bits

Repressor Box, plastic kit
Similar to Forge World one
Reworked Turrent and different Dozer Blade
Same 3 Icon from Penitent Engine kit but bigger
Numerous scrolls and Sister doors.
2 Driver heads, bare and helmeted

Priest kit, plastic?
Comparable to Empire Wizards kit
Numerous heads
Plasma Pistol, Bolt Pistol, Hand Flamer, Book, Eviscerator

I believe it was Stickmonkey who posted these


----------



## Sexxy Camera

Nope, 

That was me. 

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=86392


Well some of that. There were a few people who posted some stuff after me that were simular to some of what I had posted.


----------



## Suijin

It would be nice to have the penitent engine changed to a monstrous creature, as I think the 6th Ed. rules favor MC over vehicles.

It would be easy to predict SoB getting a flyer as they are the new product hotness for more cash for GW.


----------



## Necrosis

I wonder how much the sister of battle fluff is going to change when they get an update. Decree passive might actually change (or flat our removed).


----------



## SilverTabby

Sexxy Camera said:


> Ok, so I get blasted because my first rumors are to specific.
> 
> And then I am a little less specific, and I still get blasted. You guys can not make up your minds at all.
> 
> Its funny, I share a big wad of information, and people say I am vague, and half the other 'reliable' rumor posters share a sentence that can be interpreted 10 different ways, are usually wrong, and are taken as accurate rumor posters.


I'm not comparing you to other rumour-mongers. I'm taking you on purely what you said, and what you said you saw was not physically possible to have seen. You said yourself you've never been to GWHQ, in any country let alone the UK one, and at this stage in any production you _will not see figures anywhere else_. They will not have left the Studio, and mould making is now done in-house so any product (testers or otherwise) will not have left the premises. When asked if it was firsthand or secondhand knowledge, you implied heavily it was firsthand. 

I don't claim to know things I don't, but what I do have is a decade of knowledge on how these things work, firsthand.


----------



## Svartmetall

And trust me - even in the mould room, security is tight as hell; 'need to know' rules supreme.


----------



## SilverTabby

Happier post! With stuff mentioned earlier!

As mentioned earlier, I like to kitbash. Here are my Penitent Engines, as cobbled together from Dreadnought bits, Sentinal bits, Immolator bits and whatever else was lying around at the time, mostly plasticard and wire mesh. 

Penitent Engine number 1:









Penitent Engine number 2:









And because I am hopeless and this discussion made me think I needed to know if I had the leftover bits for another, here are the beginnings of Penitent Engine number 3. 









I don’t have the bits to complete it, as it turns out. So lots of Green stuff will be needed for this one to be completed…

Also, Celestine with wings was mentioned so here’s the first pic of mine that is currently in the works…









And just to show you don't need to stick to conventional tanks:


----------



## scscofield

Haha the Dinotank reminds me of a toyline cartoon that floated around here back in the 80s/90s


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Wow, excellent work there Silver tabby ! I love a good "out there' kit bash.


----------



## experiment 626

Necrosis said:


> I wonder how much the sister of battle fluff is going to change when they get an update. Decree passive might actually change (or flat our removed).


I highly doubt they'd change the Decree Passive as that's been an integral part of the Sisters backstory since their original 2nd ed codex!
Hell, it's a huge part of Imperial history and the Sisters existance is a big highlight of why there's so much tention between the Ecclesiarchy and other high ranking Imperial organisations!

The Sisters don't need a total re-write/fleshing out of their story like the Necrons or Dark eldar did as their story is well and truely established.

Retconning the Decree Passive and/or substanially altering it would be akin to retconning the creation of the Codex Astartes that broke the Legions down into the modern day Chapters!


----------



## Arcane

Zion said:


> They are, but out of NINE kits, only THREE are infantry?
> 
> Let's see here: We have the Celestians (who REALLY do need something other than a bit of gold on their shoulders to help designate them as being different than the other Sisters), Repentia, Battle Sister Squads, Seraphim, Dominions (who NEED to come in sets with extra special weapons to be worth buying) and finally Retributors (who NEED to come in sets with extra heavy weapons to be worth buying) all who need Plastic Kits.
> 
> Well depending on how they do it, all the Infantry in the SoB only really need 1 kit, so 3 would do it easily. All they have to do is throw in a special helmet or shoulder pads to make them different. Even GK don't have a special Purgiation heavy weapons squad box, you just make them out of existing models or the troops box. I could easily see them expanding the Battle Conclaves to be even more similar to the Warbands.
> 
> In addition we have the Penitent Engine and the Exorcist that need plastic kits too (both vehicles).
> 
> Now assuming both the Penitent Engine and the Exorcist get plastic kits that leaves 7 kits, but only THREE of those are going to be infantry? Even removing the HQs as Finecast, and the Repentia as Finecast that leaves a lot of models from the current line that need work. That's not counting any additional units that come out in the next codex.
> 
> The other models are fine imo, and they will most likely add a new unique unit or two, so Penitent and Exorcist, plus 3 infantry leaves 4 units, one is probably a Flyer (we would hope), so that leaves 3 mystery units "vehicles" and I see no reason why a MC couldn't be introduced since Pen Engines will probably be moved to that.
> 
> So basically from Camera's count we're getting around 7 Vehicle kits (because we don't use MCs) in addition to the one kit we already have in plastic (Rhino/Immolator).
> 
> That's a lot of tank considering we're still short on flexibility in the troop options I think.


----------



## Zion

@Arcane - All things considered while they CAN make the entire army out of one kit doesn't mean they SHOULD. I don't know about you but we could use some actual variety.

Either way, most of the kits being vehicles doesn't inspire me with joy or confidence. I'm looking at the overall options. Sure new vehicle kits are nice but I'd like to see some new units in there too.

As you said before, anything LESS than what Dark Eldar and Necrons wouldn't be right, and I agree. And 3 Infantry Squads in plastic is a LOT less.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Zion said:


> @Arcane - All things considered while they CAN make the entire army out of one kit doesn't mean they SHOULD. I don't know about you but we could use some actual variety.


Yeah and why would they make an entire army from one kit when they could force you to buy 3 kits to make one squad! Yay Deathwing! :laugh:


----------



## Arcane

Well let's face it, Sexy Camero is probably full of crap. I would expect the same that GK got, which isn't much, but it's better than nothing.


----------



## Zion

Arcane said:


> Well let's face it, Sexy Camero is probably full of crap. I would expect the same that GK got, which isn't much, but it's better than nothing.


Considering the room to grow the Sisters have I really think we could do better than that. But maybe that's just me.


----------



## asianavatar

> Yeah and why would they make an entire army from one kit when they could force you to buy 3 kits to make one squad


Because its cheaper for them. If you had to buy thirty guys made up of 3 different kits that is three kits GW has to put money into for design and molds. If you had to buy 30 guys from one kit, you still spend the same money but the design cost for GW are cut by a third.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

asianavatar said:


> Because its cheaper for them. If you had to buy thirty guys made up of 3 different kits that is three kits GW has to put money into for design and molds. If you had to buy 30 guys from one kit, you still spend the same money but the design cost for GW are cut by a third.


As evidenced by the Grey Knights have 2 kits for the entire army.


----------



## demon bringer

Magpie_Oz said:


> As evidenced by the Grey Knights have 2 kits for the entire army.


3.5 kits but only 2 for troops


----------



## Magpie_Oz

demon bringer said:


> 3.5 kits but only 2 for troops


3.5? how do you figure that?

I'm talking kits to build the army here, not vehicles or add on's


----------



## demon bringer

Magpie_Oz said:


> 3.5? how do you figure that?
> 
> I'm talking kits to build the army here, not vehicles or add on's


Thats why I agreed with 2 for troops, I get 3.5 because there 1.GK terminators, 1.GK power amour, 1.dread knight and 0.5 storm raven all part of the grey knight releases. then you've got all the stuff they can take that was already knocking about like tanks and dreads ant what not


----------



## SilverTabby

Which, to be fair, is why daemonhunters got an update before Witchhunters. 

Minimal kits, vs a full range redo? (lets face it, most of the immolator kit is hastily done and shoddy, having spent last night kitbashing with it. A marine tank body with boobs added?) 

DE took years because it was an entire redo from the ground up. 
Necrons took years because it was an almost full reboot. 

Given the very limited range we have, any change to the Sisters will have, by necessity, to be an almost complete reboot figurewise. And the robes issues are not an excuse, Jez is a perfectionist and it's true that positioning them *is* a bitch.


----------



## asianavatar

> most of the immolator kit is hastily done and shoddy


What is wrong with the immolator kit. Sure the gun cockpit part is a little silly, but the extra top part make a great different looking rhino or kitbash for an exorcist.


----------



## Zion

SilverTabby said:


> Which, to be fair, is why daemonhunters got an update before Witchhunters.
> 
> Minimal kits, vs a full range redo? (lets face it, most of the immolator kit is hastily done and shoddy, having spent last night kitbashing with it. A marine tank body with boobs added?)
> 
> DE took years because it was an entire redo from the ground up.
> Necrons took years because it was an almost full reboot.
> 
> Given the very limited range we have, any change to the Sisters will have, by necessity, to be an almost complete reboot figurewise. And the robes issues are not an excuse, Jez is a perfectionist and it's true that positioning them *is* a bitch.


All true statements. Though hopefully once the Sisters hit plastic updating them will be less of a problem in the future.


----------



## SilverTabby

asianavatar said:


> What is wrong with the immolator kit. Sure the gun cockpit part is a little silly, but the extra top part make a great different looking rhino or kitbash for an exorcist.


I'm talking about the accessories, mostly. Some are lovely, some are decidedly dubious. Look at the creepy smily doll on the back of the headrest. Or the marine tophatch chest with boobs added on. 

Don't get me wrong, the kit as a whole looks fine and is very useful. But it is old and from a period where things like that got through vetting.


----------



## Zion

SilverTabby said:


> I'm talking about the accessories, mostly. Some are lovely, some are decidedly dubious. Look at the creepy smily doll on the back of the headrest. Or the marine tophatch chest with boobs added on.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the kit as a whole looks fine and is very useful. But it is old and from a period where things like that got through vetting.


Ah. So parts of it just need updating then. That's fair.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

asianavatar said:


> Because its cheaper for them. If you had to buy thirty guys made up of 3 different kits that is three kits GW has to put money into for design and molds.


Hardly, DW carry Stormbolters, or CC weapons and optionally a Standard Bearer and/or Apothecary. GW designed 0 kits to do this and simply told players to spend $135 on existing ones to make them. If they were building real DW from the ground up, it would take slightly less time to make one kit depending how many parts it shared though in their case most of them probably could be.



SilverTabby said:


> DE took years because it was an entire redo from the ground up.
> Necrons took years because it was an almost full reboot.
> 
> Given the very limited range we have, any change to the Sisters will have, by necessity, to be an almost complete reboot figurewise. And the robes issues are not an excuse, Jez is a perfectionist and it's true that positioning them *is* a bitch.


Sucks for the people playing these armies to have to wait when the average player has no idea how long the process can really be. Sort of a pity GW can't just tell them they're working on it, but then people whine more about when it will come out etc etc etc.


----------



## SilverTabby

Zion said:


> Ah. So parts of it just need updating then. That's fair.


If part of it gets redone, the whole lot does. If you change part of a sprue, the whole sprue needs a new mould so you may as well do a whole new model.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Karyudo-DS said:


> Sort of a pity GW can't just tell them they're working on it, but then people whine more about when it will come out etc etc etc.


I often think that GW doesn't do this to preserve their market. I mean they tnd to do something and the rest of the mini businesses follow so if they announce early other mini houses can steal a march on them.

I note that HiTech Minis now have a "Stormtalon" for example.


----------



## SilverTabby

Here's something that was raised for the Chaos codex and has got me thinking. 

The chaos colour section has new colour varients in it for the big 4 legions. the Chaos rumour thread has my thoughts on it, but following that I had a real good close look at the Sisters colour section. I know the models in that army. I painted a fair few of them. And there are two new ones in there: bottom right of the second page. 

Now normally I'd dismiss that as 'EM were asked to do a couple of new figures for the BRB'. I did 2 for the last one. However, combine that with the fact that we got a whole double-page spread (more than GKs), and the mysterious appearance of a salvo bolt-type weapon that doesn't appear in the appendices, and it's got that ember of hope glowing. And don't forget, this BRB was *finished* at Christmas. So if the Shellstorm Cannon is a new Holy Trinity weapon, then the codex was *at least* in draft stage back then. 

My feeling the Shellstorm cannon is a new bolter weapon comes from the fact that the marines already have the Assault Cannon, the Reaper getting renamed is unlikely, and the only other army that kind of name might fit is Tau who tend to use plasma. 

I know it's all very nebulous, but that's all we've got right now...


----------



## Zion

SilverTabby said:


> If part of it gets redone, the whole lot does. If you change part of a sprue, the whole sprue needs a new mould so you may as well do a whole new model.


To be fair it'd only change one sprue as the rest is just a standard Rhino. I'd love to see some of those decorative mural plate pieces like the Exorcists has making their way into the Immolator kit though. 



SilverTabby said:


> Here's something that was raised for the Chaos codex and has got me thinking.
> 
> The chaos colour section has new colour varients in it for the big 4 legions. the Chaos rumour thread has my thoughts on it, but following that I had a real good close look at the Sisters colour section. I know the models in that army. I painted a fair few of them. And there are two new ones in there: bottom right of the second page.
> 
> Now normally I'd dismiss that as 'EM were asked to do a couple of new figures for the BRB'. I did 2 for the last one. However, combine that with the fact that we got a whole double-page spread (more than GKs), and the mysterious appearance of a salvo bolt-type weapon that doesn't appear in the appendices, and it's got that ember of hope glowing. And don't forget, this BRB was *finished* at Christmas. So if the Shellstorm Cannon is a new Holy Trinity weapon, then the codex was *at least* in draft stage back then.
> 
> My feeling the Shellstorm cannon is a new bolter weapon comes from the fact that the marines already have the Assault Cannon, the Reaper getting renamed is unlikely, and the only other army that kind of name might fit is Tau who tend to use plasma.
> 
> I know it's all very nebulous, but that's all we've got right now...


It's more than what we usually see posted and it makes a lot of sense. Wonder if Forge World's Bolter Cannon will get it's debut in the Sister's book too.....


----------



## Troublehalf

Interesting bit of text on the new ForgeWorld aircraft model:

"The Avenger is often specifically requested by the Adeptus Sororitas should they require close support in their purgations."

That suggests the Sisters of Battle have been taken into consideration for the lore... Meaning, if they were to be removed from the game, I doubt they would of been mentioned. Perhaps it's a sign of things to come.... Let's hope, eh?

I too noticed the Shellstorm Cannon, it's not in the back either.... I swear there was another weapon I've not seen before mentioned, but can't remember what it was called.

Things I think SoB need:

1. Current stuff in Finecast/Plastic
2. A medium tank of some sort (akin to a Predator) 
3. A Land-Raider equivalent (Possibly linked to No.2)
4. Terminator Equivalent.
5. I've always seen/heard rumours of a "Sarcophagus" which is essentially SoB version of a Dreadnought.... Would make sense.....
6. A flyer (possibly the Avenger?)
7. More IC. Currently have 3, and the Cannoness, which is 4. I'd expect an IC Cannoness.
8. I want nude Sister Repentia! They have Fleet now, no armour save and get Shield of Faith, being naked means they are totally at the mercy of the Emperor and if they are truly worth saving, they'll be protected and survive without armour! But that won't happen.... Alas no company does customizable 28mm nude figures....


----------



## Zion

Troublehalf said:


> Interesting bit of text on the new ForgeWorld aircraft model:
> 
> "The Avenger is often specifically requested by the Adeptus Sororitas should they require close support in their purgations."
> 
> That suggests the Sisters of Battle have been taken into consideration for the lore... Meaning, if they were to be removed from the game, I doubt they would of been mentioned. Perhaps it's a sign of things to come.... Let's hope, eh?
> 
> I too noticed the Shellstorm Cannon, it's not in the back either.... I swear there was another weapon I've not seen before mentioned, but can't remember what it was called.
> 
> Things I think SoB need:
> 
> 1. Current stuff in Finecast/Plastic
> 2. A medium tank of some sort (akin to a Predator)
> 3. A Land-Raider equivalent (Possibly linked to No.2)
> 4. Terminator Equivalent.
> 5. I've always seen/heard rumours of a "Sarcophagus" which is essentially SoB version of a Dreadnought.... Would make sense.....
> 6. A flyer (possibly the Avenger?)
> 7. More IC. Currently have 3, and the Cannoness, which is 4. I'd expect an IC Cannoness.
> 8. I want nude Sister Repentia! They have Fleet now, no armour save and get Shield of Faith, being naked means they are totally at the mercy of the Emperor and if they are truly worth saving, they'll be protected and survive without armour! But that won't happen.... Alas no company does customizable 28mm nude figures....


Not to nitpick but we have 5 HQ ICs (3 Special Characters, 2 Generic) and the Priests (who are, I think, an HQ choice that can't be the mandatory HQ and don't use a slot).

And PG-13 models, sure. Even R rated ones, but GW won't do X-rated models.


----------



## Creon

Troublehalf said:


> Things I think SoB need:
> 
> 1. Current stuff in Finecast/Plastic


*True this, to make it cost affordable to start a new army for those out there who haven't*


> 2. A medium tank of some sort (akin to a Predator)


*Our Medium Tank is the Exorcist. It fits the Predator model quite well already. I'd say we need a Heavy/Assault vehicle (see below) *


> 3. A Land-Raider equivalent (Possibly linked to No.2)


*Sisters lack a decent all around armor punch. However, I see this going flyer for some reason. An a:12 assault flyer would be my guess. See below.*


> 4. Terminator Equivalent.


*I just don't see this working in the fluff. Sisters just don't use Tactical Armor type squads. What fills this gap is the Death Cult. Modeled with a Power Axe and Power Sword, they should stand toe to toe with Terminators fairly well. *


> 5. I've always seen/heard rumours of a "Sarcophagus" which is essentially SoB version of a Dreadnought.... Would make sense.....


*This already exists, and is called the Penitent Engine. I'd love to see something that "hard shells" the Engine, and gives it a point more armor, though.*


> 6. A flyer (possibly the Avenger?)


*The Arvus Lighter is my guess for this. Seeing as it's already modeled. I'd love to see a 12/12/12 Arvus with Assault ramp to take in Repentia or Death Cult.*


> 7. More IC. Currently have 3, and the Cannoness, which is 4. I'd expect an IC Cannoness.


*Can't argue with this. I'd love to see Mistress of the Repentant, making Repentia Scoring *


> 8. I want nude Sister Repentia! They have Fleet now, no armour save and get Shield of Faith, being naked means they are totally at the mercy of the Emperor and if they are truly worth saving, they'll be protected and survive without armour! But that won't happen.... Alas no company does customizable 28mm nude figures....


*Try Shadowforge Light Temple Auxiliary. Not quite totally clothesless, but they get fairly close. http://www.shadowforge.com.au/prod_pages/index.html*


----------



## Troublehalf

Creon said:


> *True this, to make it cost affordable to start a new army for those out there who haven't**Our Medium Tank is the Exorcist. It fits the Predator model quite well already. I'd say we need a Heavy/Assault vehicle (see below) **Sisters lack a decent all around armor punch. However, I see this going flyer for some reason. An a:12 assault flyer would be my guess. See below.**I just don't see this working in the fluff. Sisters just don't use Tactical Armor type squads. What fills this gap is the Death Cult. Modeled with a Power Axe and Power Sword, they should stand toe to toe with Terminators fairly well. **This already exists, and is called the Penitent Engine. I'd love to see something that "hard shells" the Engine, and gives it a point more armor, though.**The Arvus Lighter is my guess for this. Seeing as it's already modeled. I'd love to see a 12/12/12 Arvus with Assault ramp to take in Repentia or Death Cult.**Can't argue with this. I'd love to see Mistress of the Repentant, making Repentia Scoring **Try Shadowforge Light Temple Auxiliary. Not quite totally clothesless, but they get fairly close. http://www.shadowforge.com.au/prod_pages/index.html*


Oooo, nice website! Thanks! +Rep for you!

I've found these ones (for my models):

http://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/lyn-succubus-limited-edition-300.html

http://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/nude-study-2-1.html

But they are 30mm-32mm.....problem is I think they are one full model... Not sure though 

The thing about my Sarcofigus and the Penitent Engine is that the Engine is used as a punishment, not as a revered place for heroes to continue the fight. Hmmm... I dunno. Exorcists I suppose could count as a medium tank.

Anyway, the two weapons I don't know (apart from Shellcannon) are Dragons Breath Flamer and Marco-Cannon.


----------



## Sworn Radical

Troublehalf said:


> Anyway, the two weapons I don't know (apart from Shellcannon) are Dragons Breath Flamer and Marco-Cannon.


Dragon's Breath Flamer is an optional weapon for a Fire Dragon Exarch.

The Macro Cannon is a large planetary defense cannon, able to fire in to near orbit, if I remember correctly, but don't quote me on it.

Both weapons are nothing new though, in fact the Macro has been in the original Rogue Trader book, dunno when the Dragon's Breath first popped up.


----------



## HoboAnarki

Troublehalf said:


> 1. Current stuff in Finecast/Plastic


Goes without saying really


> 2. A medium tank of some sort (akin to a Predator)


This could probably be done by just giving the exorcist more turret options, although that might make it a little too much like a predator.


> 3. A Land-Raider equivalent (Possibly linked to No.2)


If you mean a heavily armoured tank, then I'd quite like to see a new imperial tank chassis a bit like a non super-heavy Malcador or Macarius. If you were referring to an assault vehicle, I think something open topped would be pretty unique for an imperial faction and still let you deliver your assault troops to the front.


> 4. Terminator Equivalent.


As long as they're not wearing TDA this seems like a good idea, artificer armour would seem more in character.


> 6. A flyer (possibly the Avenger?)


I'm sure there will be a flyer in every new codex from now on, although I do seem to remember GW saying they weren't going to be converting anymore FW vehicles to plastic. To be honest hough, I would really mind sharing the valkyrie with the IG, I love that model.


> 7. More IC. Currently have 3, and the Cannoness, which is 4. I'd expect an IC Cannoness.


There's certainly room in the codex for Saint Praxedes and Helena the Virtuous.


----------



## Troublehalf

Yeah. I think Artificer wearing Elite would make more sense. They get the save from Shield of Faith, not as good, but since you can only do one save roll now.... :\

They also need some "special" units. You know, fun units that nobody would use in a tournament, but would for fun. For example, I love the GK Assassins... I also love the Death Cult girls in the Battle Conclaves. The problem is... one of the models has two blades, representative of their stats, one only has a single blade. They have 2A base, but since they have two power weapons, it goes to 3A.... So they need funky stuff like that.

I also have a question... the Celestines have two pistols... they have base attack of 2A.... since pistols = melee weapon, two pistols = 2 melee weapons.... so, do you get the bonus +1A for it then? So do they go in assault with 3A (4A if they charge)? Or, if they have a power sword and a pistol, does the same apply? So on, so forth....


----------



## Keen4e

Zion said:


> And PG-13 models, sure. Even R rated ones, but GW won't do X-rated models.


The funny thing is that in warhammer 40K universe horrifying torture occurs everyday (Inquisition, Dark Eldar etc...), there is mass slaying in the most brutal ways imaginable (blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne!), but nude women are considered offensive....
Naked repentias is kind of inappropriate, but I can easily imagine (or rather not....) daemonettes being nude. 
I find it ironic, that GW survives on teenagers, while the content (not the miniatures unfortunately) is definitely 18+ .


----------



## Azezel

SilverTabby said:


> Here's something that was raised for the Chaos codex and has got me thinking.
> 
> The chaos colour section has new colour varients in it for the big 4 legions. the Chaos rumour thread has my thoughts on it, but following that I had a real good close look at the Sisters colour section. I know the models in that army. I painted a fair few of them. And there are two new ones in there: bottom right of the second page.
> 
> Now normally I'd dismiss that as 'EM were asked to do a couple of new figures for the BRB'. I did 2 for the last one. However, combine that with the fact that we got a whole double-page spread (more than GKs), and the mysterious appearance of a salvo bolt-type weapon that doesn't appear in the appendices, and it's got that ember of hope glowing. And don't forget, this BRB was *finished* at Christmas. So if the Shellstorm Cannon is a new Holy Trinity weapon, then the codex was *at least* in draft stage back then.
> 
> My feeling the Shellstorm cannon is a new bolter weapon comes from the fact that the marines already have the Assault Cannon, the Reaper getting renamed is unlikely, and the only other army that kind of name might fit is Tau who tend to use plasma.
> 
> I know it's all very nebulous, but that's all we've got right now...


You Sir... Have my undivided attention.

That is (disturbing as it sounds) by far and away the best and most solid news we've had in eighteen months.

Keep the faith, my friends.




Troublehalf said:


> Interesting bit of text on the new ForgeWorld aircraft model:
> 
> "The Avenger is often specifically requested by the Adeptus Sororitas should they require close support in their purgations."
> 
> That suggests the Sisters of Battle have been taken into consideration for the lore... Meaning, if they were to be removed from the game, I doubt they would of been mentioned. Perhaps it's a sign of things to come.... Let's hope, eh?


No-one is suggesting that the Sisters are going to be officially squatted. The worst anyone fears is that they are just ignored forever (there is a difference) or mentioned here and there in the background (usually being killed by Space Marines) but never updated as an army.



Troublehalf said:


> Things I think SoB need:
> 
> 1. Current stuff in Finecast/Plastic
> 2. A medium tank of some sort (akin to a Predator)


Obviously.



Troublehalf said:


> 3. A Land-Raider equivalent (Possibly linked to No.2)
> 4. Terminator Equivalent.


Sisters aren't Space Marines. We don't need those things any more than Eldar or Orks do.




Troublehalf said:


> 5. I've always seen/heard rumours of a "Sarcophagus" which is essentially SoB version of a Dreadnought.... Would make sense.....


Bindun.





















Troublehalf said:


> 6. A flyer (possibly the Avenger?)


In sixth? that's a given.



Troublehalf said:


> 7. More IC. Currently have 3, and the Cannoness, which is 4. I'd expect an IC Cannoness.


Do you mean special characters? I hope not. Hate special characters so much.



Troublehalf said:


> 8. I want nude Sister Repentia! They have Fleet now, no armour save and get Shield of Faith, being naked means they are totally at the mercy of the Emperor and if they are truly worth saving, they'll be protected and survive without armour! But that won't happen.... Alas no company does customizable 28mm nude figures....


Here's the thing, the chance of you ever actually seeing a real-life naked lady is inversely proportional to the number of tiny models of naked ladies you have. True story.

Or in other words, those of us who aren't fourteen years old anymore mostly prefer our minis to be wearing clothes.


----------



## Arcane

Troublehalf said:


> I also have a question... the Celestines have two pistols... they have base attack of 2A.... since pistols = melee weapon, two pistols = 2 melee weapons.... so, do you get the bonus +1A for it then? So do they go in assault with 3A (4A if they charge)? Or, if they have a power sword and a pistol, does the same apply? So on, so forth....



I think you mean Seraphim? Seraphim are the jump pack infantry with two pistols. Celestians (Not Celestines), are elite Sisters of Battle who are essentially the same but have slightly better stats and options for special weapons.


----------



## Troublehalf

Arcane said:


> I think you mean Seraphim? Seraphim are the jump pack infantry with two pistols. Celestians (Not Celestines), are elite Sisters of Battle who are essentially the same but have slightly better stats and options for special weapons.


Er, yeah, that's what I meant. Tired 

I was just curious if having two normal pistols and or a combo of melee + pistol still gave +1A bonus.... All I could find was Gunslinger.


----------



## Troublehalf

Azezel said:


> _No-one is suggesting that the Sisters are going to be officially squatted. The worst anyone fears is that they are just ignored forever (there is a difference) or mentioned here and there in the background (usually being killed by Space Marines) but never updated as an army._


Not updating them is pretty much the same thing. It's like saying "It's too much work to even remove them, just play with your metal models and make rules yourself". I don't see the point of them even mentioning SoB in the description for the aircraft if it was just a quirky bit of fluff somebody did.
_



Azezel said:



Sisters aren't Space Marines. We don't need those things any more than Eldar or Orks do.

Click to expand...

_Correct, they are not. Yet most, if not all, armies get some sort of tougher, higher armour save/ward save unit. Orks get, guess what, Meganobs, which look very similar to terminators. Mega Armour: "...but it can withstand insane amounts of punishment, almost as much as Imperial Terminator Armour" Therefore, this seems to be an Ork equivalent of Terminators. Eldar get Aspect Armour... I never said "Give Sisters of Battle Terminator Armour LOL!" If you read the other discussions (I assume you did) then you'd of noticed I had discussed the simple possibility of a new elite unit or option to equip Artificer Armour instead of Power Armour.... Same Armour Save as a Terminator Armour... just no ward save....




Azezel said:


> _Do you mean special characters? I hope not. Hate special characters so much._


Yes I do, and while you dislike them, many people don't. If people didn't like SC, they wouldn't make them for every army. Even the Necrons got some new ones, I think. As already posted in reply to my points, others would like to see certain SC. Some people like them more than the 'Generic' HQ's. You are not affected by them releasing a new SC as you won't be getting them... how it causes you harm or makes you angry I don't know.




Azezel said:


> _Here's the thing, the chance of you ever actually seeing a real-life naked lady is inversely proportional to the number of tiny models of naked ladies you have. True story.
> 
> Or in other words, those of us who aren't fourteen years old anymore mostly prefer our minis to be wearing clothes._


Edited this, no point in defending my actions. Fine, if you want to believe I'm a 14 year old pre-pubescent teenager, go for it.... If it floats your boat. I wanted them for a specific reason, it's something that would give me a great amount of pleasure in my hobby and make me enjoy it. I guess GW is run my 14 year olds seeing as Morathi is topless.....


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Azezel said:


> Here's the thing, the chance of you ever actually seeing a real-life naked lady is inversely proportional to the number of tiny models of naked ladies you have. True story.
> 
> Or in other words, those of us who aren't fourteen years old anymore mostly prefer our minis to be wearing clothes.


Now this I can assure you is completely untrue. I sleep with naked woman every night and I have dozens of "studies of the female form" through out my house as does my wife (the aforementioned naked woman.)

So get stuck in lads, make Pegaso you first stop !


----------



## Arcane

I have to agree Magpie, as an adult who has seen and sees naked women on a daily basis, I personally have no qualms with also having them in my hobby. However, GW probably won't do it anyhow so *shrug*


----------



## Necrosis

Weren't the old daemonettes nude?


----------



## bitsandkits

Necrosis said:


> Weren't the old daemonettes nude?


no they were just titing


----------



## Sworn Radical

bitsandkits said:


> no they were just titing


Yeah, and that was already to much for little Timmy and his mother ...

It's just that those _'old'_ Daemonettes looked so much better in every aspect.
Sheesh, there's naked bodies everywhere you turn nowadays, but so they where ten or twenty years ago. It's just that the internet and other media have them at one's disposal but a click away these days.
GW, do you only want underage customers who can only spend so much a month ? Fine, then only throw content appropriate for underage our way. Want serious customers that've been in the wargaming hobby for 20+ years, have the money to spend and wont fart, cry, whine, smell badly or look like total nerds in your local store ? Then you should start to consider that 'other' segment of your customer base again, and not only in regards to the decency level of certain miniatures. I really don't care if my Sisters have their tits popping out or not, but I do care about being taken seriously as a customer.

On the bright side ... I firmly believe that we might see more on the Sisters front (pun intended) in the near future - it's already a given that we'll be able to utilize the Arvus and the Avenger from IA Aeronautica, so I'll be curious to learn what's next ...


----------



## SilverTabby

So wait, GW is only taking it's veteran customer base seriously if it includes x-rated figures? How does that work?

And damn it, now I can't shower or dress (me or my daughter) with my eyes open until my slaaneshi army gets sold... :wink:

In all seriousness, I like a good female figure too. It must however be a *good* female figure. Muscle tone, correct proportions... I won't touch the current Repentia (and am converting my own) because they have no muscle definition and are just vague human forms under bondage gear. Same with the Arcoflaggellants, but to a greater degree (those are just *terrible*). The ideas Shadowforge do are nice, but again, not well enough defined or proportioned for me to use their figures. Luckily, we're now at a stage where GW shys away from releasing things like the Arcoflaggellants currently on release in favour of well defined models.


----------



## Sworn Radical

SilverTabby said:


> So wait, GW is only taking it's veteran customer base seriously if it includes x-rated figures?


Lol, of course not. Like I said, I don't really care if there's some skin to be seen on my female miniatures or not. In fact, I couldn't care less, it's a game after all. Yet, removing models that even _'might'_ be inappropriate for little Timmy to lay eyes upon (like the 6th ed. WHFB Daemonettes for example), was once again a nod in the direction of the teenage crowd and clearly not towards the mature gaming audience. That was all I was trying to point out, maybe the wording was a bit akward.
Which, like I said, is absolute nonsense given our current time and era.
Also, I wouldn't rate naked metal breasts as x-rated ...


----------



## jigplums

Mokuren said:


> If this was a SPACE MARINE chapter it would've come out at all costs, even if it meant postponing a WD for whatever reason.


if this is true and not some Net-gripe attitude then why did blood angels get a wd dex? and why have black templars and dark angels not been re-done?


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Sworn Radical said:


> ...was once again a nod in the direction of the teenage crowd and clearly not towards the mature gaming audience.


Really depends on the area but a lot of places I see 40k sell things like MtG and comic books. Both things the teenage little Timmy's buy often. You put something that might make them debate which audience they want to sell and they'll pick Timmy every time. Because there are lots of Timmy's and the don't all grow up to be us so the supply of them is infinitely larger and a better target audience.

I know one of the stores I go to that has Thursday/Friday 40k games go on sees plenty of Timmy's too. Not all of them playing 40k, but they're there.

Not that a tiny demon with boobs really seems like that big of a deal to me. Timmy has to learn the facts of life eventually and that they will come and get him in his sleep.


----------



## jigplums

Arcane said:


> While 6th edition has nerfed many lists of most armies, those armies can adapt and form new lists and use the new things brought by 5th to make viable strategies. SoB have only one or two viable lists with slight variation, making adaptation almost impossible for them due to the very very small codex and receive few of the new 6th ed perks to help.
> 
> -No access to the new Psychic powers (ok, so several armies also don't, but they were designed with no psykers in mind). All of the existing SoB units are based on a design from when the codex was 3 times as large and contained psykers.
> 
> -Despite long having strong resistance to Psychic powers, SoB have none beyond your normal guardsman although Deny the Witch is introduced for all players.
> 
> -No flyers and little ability to deal with flyers effectively. The Icarus Lascannon with a fortification offers 1 shot a turn (even if used to intercept) and is little protection against 3-9+ flyers on the board. After it's gone, SoB have nothing to combat them.
> 
> -SoB's only dedicated assaulting units, Repentia and Death Cult Assassins had their FnP nerfed to 5+. With a weak Invulnerable save (6++ and 5++ respectively) their longevity in battle is severely diminished.
> 
> -These assault units can no longer assault out of a stationary Rhino, meaning they must walk up the board to be effective assault units (see point above). Jacobus just got shelved.
> 
> -Death Cult Assassins can no longer be used as an answer to Terminators since Power Weapons were nerfed to AP3 and overwatch against their weak 5++, 5FnP means many won't make it into combat.
> 
> -All SoB vehicles have only 3 hull points. No access to stronger vehicles means all SoB vehicles can be glanced to death fairly easily.
> 
> -Vehicles only receive a 5+ cover save from Smoke Launchers. It cannot be stressed enough the dependance of SoB on the survivability of their Rhinos to stay protected and mobile, survivability which has been greatly diminished in 6th.
> 
> -Warlord doesn't really benefit an army whose strongest HQ, Celestine, is T3 and isn't immune to instant death. Challenges from enemy Warlords will be exceedingly difficult to handle. Celestine does benifit from the Power Weapon nerf, having a 2+ armor save, but is the only model in the entire army to have such.
> 
> -Many units were given SoB specific abilities once exclusive to the SoB army such as Dual Pistol fire, Regrouping under 25%, and Psychic defense.


Almost everything in this post affects every other army as well. it really smacks of a "i cant win so blame everything on my army attitude". they are some great stuff in their list and some great rules from faith. 

you can now use allies to play the list you used to and include stuff like a vindicare assassin, unit of psykers, etc from grey knights. 

there are some inbalances in 6th, as there always are when editions change, and they take a little while to settle. guess what its time to MAN THE FUCK UP


----------



## Magpie_Oz

SilverTabby said:


> In all seriousness, I like a good female figure too. It must however be a *good* female figure. Muscle tone, correct proportions... I won't touch the current Repentia (and am converting my own) because they have no muscle definition and are just vague human forms under bondage gear. Same with the Arcoflaggellants, but to a greater degree (those are just *terrible*). The ideas Shadowforge do are nice, but again, not well enough defined or proportioned for me to use their figures. Luckily, we're now at a stage where GW shys away from releasing things like the Arcoflaggellants currently on release in favour of well defined models.


I have to agree, there is a fine line between attractive and feminine and well .... slutty and I find the Shadowforge minis more towards the latter than the former.

The Infinity minis are the ones I like, they show a female mini doesn't have to get her kit off to look great.


----------



## bitsandkits

its like i always say, the magic is in the nipples


----------



## Zion

*wanders in to check rumors and sees several pages about naked models and discussing who gets to see naked ladies*

Did I just walk into /tg/ by accident?


----------



## Sworn Radical

Uh, no, into a discussion where people whine about their army ... :wink:

Like mentioned earlier, I'm quite happy personally about the option to use at least some of the Navy fliers in the upcoming Aeronautica. That'll be something at least, until the army sees a true codex update in whatever form that'll take.


----------



## Pssyche

"Both weapons are nothing new though, in fact the Macro has been in the original Rogue Trader book, dunno when the Dragon's Breath first popped up."

The Dragon's Breath Flamer first appeared in the current Codex Eldar.


----------



## Grogbart

jigplums said:


> Almost everything in this post affects every other army as well. it really smacks of a "i cant win so blame everything on my army attitude". they are some great stuff in their list and some great rules from faith.
> 
> you can now use allies to play the list you used to and include stuff like a vindicare assassin, unit of psykers, etc from grey knights.
> 
> there are some inbalances in 6th, as there always are when editions change, and they take a little while to settle. guess what its time to MAN THE FUCK UP


Dear Administrator,

there are indeed imbalances and have always been in various forms, not only during edition transitions, I might add. But I don't see, why this is a reason, anybody shouldn't be allowed to state their view of, what exactly these imbalances currently are, from time to time?

I'll admit I don't agree with some of Arcane's points myself, but to me, he made a perfectly fine post. Not only stating his displeasure, but also specifying reasonable causes for it. Causes which still remain valid for our army, even if one or two other armies might have the same issues! Anyone wanting to complain about any of those "every other" armies, is free to start a new thread for it, isn't that so?

Next, I'm generally annoyed by people, who assume the sole purpose for anyone to play 40K, is to win. Just pitiful!
There are lots of people playing for fun! Which doesn't imply winning isn't a concern at all. For me it's great fun to win a game, against an equal opponent and even more so, if odds were slightly to his favor. But I also enjoy tight games even if I lose em! Uncertainty who'll win and knowing every D6 could be crucial, is a great deal of fun.
On the other hand, winning against an opponent who didn't stand a chance of winning, is no fun at all, to me! As is playing an opponent, with the sole uncertainty being which turn he'll have wiped out my entire army.
But let me tell you, those last two cases were not problems I encountered lately (though I still have to play my first game using 6th). Instead I realised how much fun it is tinkering around with army lists and it's the lack of possibilities there of, that annoys me most in the current WDex and I think I'm not alone. 
(I'll refrain from mentioning how fluff adds to the fun of the game (or at least could), as this post is getting long enough as it is.)

Liking Allies or not, is a question of taste, I think! I just fear it could be an excuse for GW to further neglect proper balancing.

Back to the point, are there really no more pressing issues on this site, than picking on some random poster of a group of players, who, due to knowing the insignificance of their favored army, have the courtesy, to gather their issues, lest we don't occupy no more then one thread, for most of the time?
If not, might I ask, the no longer validly named "Witch Hunter" categories to be renamed "Sisters of Battle"?
Call this 'whining' if you want, but let's see, if any response to that can't be called 'whining', too?:wink:

Yours faithfully
Grogbart


----------



## Troublehalf

Thanks for the support on getting nude models for conversion. Repentia models at the moment are in bondage gear.... They are being punished for commiting a 'sin', originally they used to have +6 armour save, now they have none, but get fleet in replace. I assumed this fleet rule was gained due to the fact they don't have a lot of weight on them.... Hence why I wanted a nude figure, it would show their punishment and humiliation for doing wrong, it works in the rules because they are not weighted down by armour or clothing and since they get Shield of Faith rule, they would believe if they are truly able to be saved, then the Emperor will protected them through sheer faith rather than protection of armour. As I said, I've found great models, but are 30mm-32mm, I've found topless models at 28mm, but not perfect.

I still hope for an Artifcer Armour unit... perhaps a special or elite bodyguard or something that gets unique weapons, a bit like how the Sangiunary Guard get Angelous (Spelling?) Boltguns and Glaive Encarmine (which are awesome, but pointless due to possibility to upgrade to power fists).

That'd be great, a SoB unit with a special/rare boltgun of a specific patten or something.


----------



## SilverTabby

Sworn Radical said:


> Lol, of course not. Like I said, I don't really care if there's some skin to be seen on my female miniatures or not. In fact, I couldn't care less, it's a game after all. Yet, removing models that even _'might'_ be inappropriate for little Timmy to lay eyes upon (like the 6th ed. WHFB Daemonettes for example), was once again a nod in the direction of the teenage crowd and clearly not towards the mature gaming audience. That was all I was trying to point out, maybe the wording was a bit akward.
> Which, like I said, is absolute nonsense given our current time and era.
> Also, I wouldn't rate naked metal breasts as x-rated ...


As someone who was there when the Diaz daemonettes were first introduced *and* when they were replaced, I can tell you the decision to redo them had nothing to do with them having bare breasts and everything to do with dragging them kicking and screaming back to the original concepts once more. Alan Merritt actually gleefully binned many of the painted Diaz ones once the plastics were ready, which is why you won't find them in the museum.



jigplums said:


> there are some inbalances in 6th, as there always are when editions change, and they take a little while to settle. guess what its time to MAN THE FUCK UP


I'm a girl. Does that mean I can ignore this request? :wiink:


----------



## scscofield

I do not get why this: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sister_Repentia demands the model to be nude. Considering they are fanatics, being stripped of their 'holy armor' is nude no matter if they are actually nude or wearing a full Victorian era hoop skirt getup. 

I also do not get why the extremely horrible looking DE captive models got finecasted. Those things badly drawn bathroom hentai look like a masterpiece of art.


----------



## SilverTabby

You wouldn't believe how popular those figures are. I have a couple of the original castings where they were topless.

They were done by Chris Fitzpatrick, in the era of "lets do cartoon style overexaggerated musculature". Some people love it, some hate it, most just want the girls.


----------



## davespil

Wow, this thread went from some random guy posting some stuff he made up to seem like there was a SoB codex on the way to a huge rant about SoB and all of their short comings, and even into creepier topics like nude minis. This thread is no longer just news and rumors. Its a full blown rant thread now. 250 posts on this incredibly sketchy rumor thread of SoB sheds some light on the SoB community as a whole...

Sure, I'd like a new SoB codex as much as the next guy. But the obsession displayed here is getting creepy... I think this thread should be moved from the News and Rumors section. Or at least end it and start one in general discussion, please.


----------



## Zion

scscofield said:


> I do not get why this: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sister_Repentia demands the model to be nude. Considering they are fanatics, being stripped of their 'holy armor' is nude no matter if they are actually nude or wearing a full Victorian era hoop skirt getup.
> 
> I also do not get why the extremely horrible looking DE captive models got finecasted. Those things badly drawn bathroom hentai look like a masterpiece of art.


Personally I would dig Repentia dressed in the ragged remains of their robes, or purity seals/ect like they are in the Witch Hunters book. But then again I think that would make them more visually interesting than just ordinary naked. Plus it gives more options for color too.



davespil said:


> Wow, this thread went from some random guy posting some stuff he made up to seem like there was a SoB codex on the way to a huge rant about SoB and all of their short comings, and even into creepier topics like nude minis. This thread is no longer just news and rumors. Its a full blown rant thread now. 250 posts on this incredibly sketchy rumor thread of SoB sheds some light on the SoB community as a whole...
> 
> Sure, I'd like a new SoB codex as much as the next guy. But the obsession displayed here is getting creepy... I think this thread should be moved from the News and Rumors section. Or at least end it and start one in general discussion, please.


I'm glad to see rash generalizations don't occur on the internet. After all, assuming that everyone is just here to complain or demand things you don't like is completely silly. On the other hand complaining about other people complaining is perfectly legitimate.

You forget one thing: Sisters players tend to gather around the slightest hint that someone mentioned Sisters. We're a very social lot with a lot to say, but often our threads get derailed by people claiming that GW will squat the models or people who complain about the fact that there is a thread about Sisters ("Why post about them, no body plays them." is the argument that amuses me the most).

Yes the thread went off the rails, but you can be sure if any new information came out we'd be talking about that the second it came out.


----------



## scscofield

I am just wondering where the concept of they had to be nude came from, any search I do on the concept either shows the fluff I just linked or porn.


----------



## Zion

scscofield said:


> I am just wondering where the concept of they had to be nude came from, any search I do on the concept either shows the fluff I just linked or porn.


I think the idea is to promote a sense of vunerability and that they are completely giving their health and safety to their belief in the Emperor's protection and their fanaticism.


----------



## scscofield

Aye that is a great reason I guess, but I was talking about in print fluff.


----------



## SilverTabby

I'm fairly sure the WH Codex had a big section on it. Don't have my codex to hand though.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Zion said:


> On the other hand complaining about other people complaining is perfectly legitimate.


Where do you stand on complaining about people not complaining about people complaining about complaints revolving around the assertation that in the future someone will complain about them complaining about the fact that someone isn't complaining about them complaining?


----------



## Zion

Bindi Baji said:


> Where do you stand on complaining about people not complaining about people complaining about complaints revolving around the assertation that in the future someone will complain about them complaining about the fact that someone isn't complaining about them complaining?


That this is getting far too silly and we may need to bring Graham Chapman out dressed in a military uniform to call the whole thing off.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

That's what we need, 

Some precision drilling !


----------



## Tawa

Right! Marching up and down the square!


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Tawa said:


> Right! Marching up and down the square!


I was thinking more along the lines of:

"SQUAAAAAaaaaaaaad CAMP IT ..... UP !"


----------



## Arcane

Sorry guys, I haven't been able to post a reply today since I've been busy chugging Bud Lite while watching Nascar, trying to man up. It's hard I tell you! lmfao


----------



## Tawa

Oooh, yes sir!

*prances about*

:laugh:


----------



## Zion

Iu7vySQbgXI

And a bit suspect too, I think!


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Arcane said:


> Sorry guys, I haven't been able to post a reply today since I've been busy chugging Bud Lite while watching Nascar, trying to man up. It's hard I tell you! lmfao


"Bud Lite" and "Man up" are mutually exclusive


----------



## mahavira

You want suspicious, try this recruiting commercial for the Japanese Maritime Self Defence Force


----------



## Arcane

Magpie_Oz said:


> "Bud Lite" and "Man up" are mutually exclusive


Damn I've been doing it wrong, must be the only way is to play any other army than SoB but... naaah. 

Checked out the old WH codex, nothing about what Repentia wear, actually the new WD is just a copy-paste of the old Repentia fluff. Funny enough though the cover does show one almost naked with only a scroll of paper covering her front side, which is far less clothing than even the current metal figures.


----------



## Purge the Heretic

What attracted me to the sisters back in ye olde 1998-99 was the gorgeous basic troops with all sorts of purity seals, I just wanted to paint them, as well as the strong female fluff, religious fanaticism and FLAMERS, purging the enemy through holy promethium. 

The addition of Repentia, though more welcome in my mind than the inquisitors and some of the other features of the WH Dex, was still a bit worrying.

They were nearly nude in the artwork, and in bondage in miniature... I would have much preferred tattered robes as has been mentioned, that is what they are dressed in according to the BL novels, and I thought in the WH dex as well, but I'd have to re-read that one.

Some of the hobbyists here seem to be focused on the blanchesque eroticism of the army, but to me that misses the point. This is a dedicated military sisterhood full of strong female personalities, willing to die for their sisters without question, full of righteous hatred for the heretic, the psyker and the alien...and did I mention FLAMERS?


----------



## mahavira

If memory serves, Faith and Fire describes Repentia as wearing rags taken from the robes which are scourged off them in their "initiation" ceremony. I don't recall any being mentioned in Hammer and Anvil (which is a shame, because they'd actually be useful against Necrons).


----------



## Arcane

Purge the Heretic said:


> , and I thought in the WH dex as well, but I'd have to re-read that one.


Like I said, it doesn't say anything about it.


----------



## SilverTabby

My Repentia are being converted from Wyches, so they are in form-fitting bodysuits that offer bugger all protection, with the occasional badly placed spot of plating :wink:


----------



## asianavatar

> My Repentia are being converted from Wyches


Cool idea, how are you doing the double handed weapons? Lot of arm repositioning?


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## SilverTabby

Work in progress shot:








The large chainsword the Canoness comes with is the same size as the old Repentia's Eviscerators, so does nicely as their weapons. The rest is trimming, repositioning and extensive planned use of Green Stuff.

Their Mistress is being converted from a Dark Eldar Lhamaean.

Of course, when new plastic ones come out I will cry, but will still have one unique squad before I get lots of new plastic ones as well...


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## SilverTabby

I had something pointed out to me today, and I felt a need to investigate further.

Zion mentioned that the Order of the Sacred Rose has been undergoing some colour changes. Initially it was white, with black robes and red inners in 2nd Ed. Then in C:WH it was white with totally black robes. Now in the 6th Ed BRB it's been shifted to the colours of the Sisters secondary force (that was painted for C:WH), white with totally red robes.

This is more positive than anyone outside the Studio could possibly guess...

There is an existing force in those colours. The WH codex states OotSR is a different scheme. Yet the BRB says OotSR is now that forces' colours. That means a fluff tweak has occured to bring the two in line. 

The most likely reason such a tweak has occured, and been emphasized in the BRB, is that OotSR is the secondary army to OooML in the new codex, and the black robes were ruled out as being not photogenic enough (which is entirely right - that scheme would be terrible to try and pull off). 

The alternative is that the white/red sisters were the only varients available (true) and they wanted to be able to list them with a named Order below them. Personally, I like the first option better and am an optimist.


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## Zion

SilverTabby said:


> I had something pointed out to me today, and I felt a need to investigate further.
> 
> Zion mentioned that the Order of the Sacred Rose has been undergoing some colour changes. Initially it was white, with black robes and red inners in 2nd Ed. Then in C:WH it was white with totally black robes. Now in the 6th Ed BRB it's been shifted to the colours of the Sisters secondary force (that was painted for C:WH), white with totally red robes.
> 
> This is more positive than anyone outside the Studio could possibly guess...
> 
> There is an existing force in those colours. The WH codex states OotSR is a different scheme. Yet the BRB says OotSR is now that forces' colours. That means a fluff tweak has occured to bring the two in line.
> 
> The most likely reason such a tweak has occured, and been emphasized in the BRB, is that OotSR is the secondary army to OooML in the new codex, and the black robes were ruled out as being not photogenic enough (which is entirely right - that scheme would be terrible to try and pull off).
> 
> The alternative is that the white/red sisters were the only varients available (true) and they wanted to be able to list them with a named Order below them. Personally, I like the first option better and am an optimist.


I'm hoping for the first one as well personally. And yay, nerd powers making it possible to notice tiny small things like that and then bother to ask about them! :biggrin:


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## Troublehalf

Sorry I sort of derailled the thread, it was just a personal comment on what I'd like to see from the new SoB and I am happy to find I am not alone in this.

It's nothing to do with being a pervert, it's a genuine belief I have now the Sister Repentia have had their rules changed. As I said, they used to have 6+ Armour Save, now they have none.

I believe my favourite colour order is Order of the Ebon Calice... The ones that are silver and don't speak a lot. I love that colour scheme and I wanted to make my own, but upon reading the new SoB section in the rulebook, SoB have gone from tens of millions to tens of thousands... While that isn't new, the fact minor orders only have a 100 or so is kind of limiting... As any custom Order would be a minor one.... I remember somebody was selling a high-skilled painted SoB army on Ebay, I was so tempted but it eventually went to bid and went higher than BO... The paint scheme was amazing though, was a nice red/black mix....


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## Zion

Troublehalf said:


> Sorry I sort of derailled the thread, it was just a personal comment on what I'd like to see from the new SoB and I am happy to find I am not alone in this.
> 
> It's nothing to do with being a pervert, it's a genuine belief I have now the Sister Repentia have had their rules changed. As I said, they used to have 6+ Armour Save, now they have none.
> 
> I believe my favourite colour order is Order of the Ebon Calice... The ones that are silver and don't speak a lot. I love that colour scheme and I wanted to make my own, but upon reading the new SoB section in the rulebook, SoB have gone from tens of millions to tens of thousands... While that isn't new, the fact minor orders only have a 100 or so is kind of limiting... As any custom Order would be a minor one.... I remember somebody was selling a high-skilled painted SoB army on Ebay, I was so tempted but it eventually went to bid and went higher than BO... The paint scheme was amazing though, was a nice red/black mix....


The Silver ones should be the Order of the Argent Shroud as the Order of the Ebon Chalice is colored black with white cloaks (with red linings).

As for the red/black one, if it was black armor but red cloaks it'd likely be the Order of the Martyred Lady but if it was red armor and black cloaks then it'd likely be the Order of the Bloodied Rose.

Links provided for illustrative purposes of course.


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## bitsandkits

SilverTabby said:


> Work in progress shot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The large chainsword the Canoness comes with is the same size as the old Repentia's Eviscerators, so does nicely as their weapons. The rest is trimming, repositioning and extensive planned use of Green Stuff.
> 
> Their Mistress is being converted from a Dark Eldar Lhamaean.
> 
> Of course, when new plastic ones come out I will cry, but will still have one unique squad before I get lots of new plastic ones as well...


looking awesome, make sure to put up some shots when you have painted them! and have some rep


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## SilverTabby

Given I'm working on a Golden Demon entry at present, most other painting is on hold until post-september. However, I have been doing a lot of converting. I finished my Celestine conversion last night:

Saint Bridgette, guide and guardian of the repentant soul...


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## bitsandkits

nice work, wish i could rep you again, shes amazing.


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## scscofield

That model should come with wings :grin: Always looks amazing when they are added.


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## bitsandkits

scscofield said:


> That model should come with wings :grin: Always looks amazing when they are added.


true, i have seen it with wings so many times i forget it does not actually have them


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## Tawa

bitsandkits said:


> nice work, wish i could rep you again, shes amazing.


But I can


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## SilverTabby

Thanks guys. She was really fun to make. Eventually I hope to have all my heavy flamers represented by dragons like hers, but GD is getting priority at present.


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## asianavatar

Nice work on the conversion I pretty much did the same thing with wings, but mine is fully converted based on a female eldar body.


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