# Havoc Launchers - why do people get them?



## Djokovic (Dec 22, 2008)

Havoc launchers seem like a complete waste to me because with rhinos (on which I always see people getting them) you are going to want to move 12" so you cant shoot the weapon. 

You could use it when you disembark, but if you are smart you will use your rhino to shield the troops that just got out, so the rhino will get blown up.


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## Syko515 (Jan 22, 2008)

Djokovic,

i find a rhino to be most cost effective when not used as a transport at all. that Havoc Laucnher being twin linked can reach the other sie of the table and do as its name subjest and cause havoc, Especailly if the army is tyranids, orks, or IG. that Str 5 ap 5 blast is nasty. in any game where you can maximise fire power it is a great option.

in the case of using the rhino to transport, your right it is a bit of a waste. but as a wall? more often then not the enemy would rather shoot at what is precieved to be a "real" tank such as a vindicator/predator/land raider, this gives the rhino quite a few pot shots with that havoc launcher effectively regaining its tiny points cost back in a hurry and then going back for more.


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Well... I would agree but i suppose it depends on who you face. Horde armies you wont be rushing up. Thus giving you some extra Pie plates. I mean i used the odd one here and there and I managed to make a IG command squad run off the table because of it. I think they are certainly hit and miss. A great choice? No, an OK choice... Sure... Are there better choices out there for the points. Most of the time yes.

I think preference may have something to do with it also. But other then the whole using them as walls for horde armies and just strapping them with some ranged pies... they dont have any sufficient use imo.

Cheers,

Chaosftw


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

I don't use them. IMO they're a waste of points. Its a transport vehicle nothing else once its done its job i tries to block LOS of you units and also t ram vehicles and tank shock infantry.


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

If I use them, they get stuck on my Thousand Sons transports. I usually keep my Thousand Sons near my deployment zone (too far to walk due to S&P), so giving each one (I use 2 in 2000 points) a havoc rack usually, "pays for itself," in a few turns of shooting.

For everyone else, no, absolutely not, none of my other rhinos get them.


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## CamTheApostle (Oct 31, 2008)

Well, I take Havoc Launchers for the simple reason that, in my experience, they can be a very useful weapon. That TL S5 blast has an excellent range and can generally get in a few kills throughout the game, easily paying for itself. I find it to be a very useful addition to the long range anti-infantry weaponry of my army and grant some additional flexibility to my forces. They have always worked very well for me, thought I don't expect that much out of them.


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## Djokovic (Dec 22, 2008)

> but as a wall? more often then not the enemy would rather shoot at what is precieved to be a "real" tank such as a vindicator/predator/land raider


The idea is that you block LoS to your tanks.


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## Djokovic (Dec 22, 2008)

> I don't use them. IMO they're a waste of points. Its a transport vehicle nothing else once its done its job i tries to block LOS of you units and also t ram vehicles and tank shock infantry.


Reason enough not to use them.


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

For the points it isn't that bad an idea to at least have one lying around to pop off and see what happens. I usually have enough points left over that I take one to round out the list. It has come in useful on more than one occasion but has never turned the game in my favor. I would never say never about one, at least try them out before condemning them to the bits box.


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## b.anthracis (Nov 18, 2008)

If you have Rhinos with havocs and other tanks, the other player has often the choice. Let the rhinos shoot with the launcher and shot at the other tanks or vice versa. In the first scenario the launcher make his points with kills, in the second scenario through soaking fire.
If I have 15 or 30 points left and playing other tanks aswell, I always take 1 or two of those launchers on rhinos.


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## Djokovic (Dec 22, 2008)

Hm... interesting.

Seems like most people think that you should get them only on more shooty units like TS who won't really need the rhinos.


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## CamTheApostle (Oct 31, 2008)

Unforgiven302 said:


> For the points it isn't that bad an idea to at least have one lying around to pop off and see what happens. I usually have enough points left over that I take one to round out the list. It has come in useful on more than one occasion but has never turned the game in my favor. I would never say never about one, at least try them out before condemning them to the bits box.


How often does a single upgrade (even on multiple units) turn the tide of battle?



Spot The Grot said:


> also t ram vehicles and tank shock infantry.


I like to use the same tactic, but you can still shoot after a tank shock (but not a ram).


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

CamTheApostle said:


> How often does a single upgrade (even on multiple units) turn the tide of battle?


Lash of submission has changed a game in my favor just the other day. Moved a squad of orks off an objective that was contested and was just enough to give me the win.


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

In some armies, such as TSuns, you spend alot of points on the troops. Against a horde army, they are to expensive as you basically loose alot of firepower by taking them compared to regular CSM, the pie plates help makeup that difference.

I rarely see a single Whirldwind taken, Instead I usually see them in pairs, Why? because 2 plates really helps clean an area up. Same concept with the Havoks. 3 transports = 3 cheap "AoE" attacks that have the potential to really stem/turn the tide in one area when concentrated. For a cheap vehicle such as a rhino, why not? Use the extra gun to get that extra firepower. My area is full of Marine players, tank shocking with a rhino usually doesn't make any sense as they ALWAYS have a tank killer in the squad especially with melta being really popular now among the armies in my area.


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## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

It may sound strange, but i dont use Havoc launchers on rhinos, but in Vindicators. IMO, Rhinos are here to deliver the troops, and the to be a mobile wall. Vindicators dont move once they are 24" from the ennemy, and then the TL S5 plate really helps if i get some "1" on my rolls to wounds with the demolisher canon. 
And what is a Vindicator with a "weapon destroyed" hit? in most armys, it becomes a mobile wall. In mine, it keeps shooting small S5 plates.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Well kind of Dies, but why not have it on a rhino and fire all the time? Yuor vindicator is pretty likely to get destroyed without ever using its havoc launcher, while your rhino could use it all the time.

On the other hand, fair enough that the vindicator is more likely to be going slow enough to fire a gun, and it also gives it some range for times when it comes on in dawn of war etc.


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

Dies Irae said:


> Vindicators dont move once they are 24" from the ennemy, and then the TL S5 plate really helps if i get some "1" on my rolls to wounds with the demolisher canon.


Do keep in mind that if you fire an ordnance weapon, you can't fire anything else on the vehicle. (pg 58, WH40K BRB). If you get some 1's on the wound roll from your vindi, then it's up to another unit to take care of the stragglers, unfortunately.


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## Trandoshanjake (Jul 22, 2008)

Wraithian said:


> Do keep in mind that if you fire an ordnance weapon, you can't fire anything else on the vehicle. (pg 58, WH40K BRB). If you get some 1's on the wound roll from your vindi, then it's up to another unit to take care of the stragglers, unfortunately.


Pintle weapons can be fired regardless of what else has been shot, IIRC, and the havoc launcher is a pintle weapon.


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

Trandoshanjake said:


> Pintle weapons can be fired regardless of what else has been shot, IIRC, and the havoc launcher is a pintle weapon.


Nope. Under ordnance weapons, it states that, "ordnance weapons require the attention of all the gunners of the vehicle, so no other weapons may be fired that turn," then goes on to state that even defensive weapons may not be fired. The description of the havoc launcher gives us no indication if it is a pintle or turret or what, so due to it's strength, it is a main weapon.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Note that pintle weapons do not have any real special rule to allow them to fire when they ordinarily cannot - unless a codex specifically allows them to. They are covered by the rules for "optional weapons" in the vehicle rules.

So the vindicator certainly cannot fire the havoc at the same time as its main gun, though in any case I don't think Dies Irae ever indended that anyway. He was talking about using the havoc when the vindicator had its main gun shot off. It isn't too great a plan in my opinion, but it is legal.


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## Estragon (Feb 25, 2008)

I take them simply because they fit in with what I do. Rock up with K-Sons, gt out, unload at close range (thank you Relentless!) and the havoc launcher and TL bolter just add a few more wounds, even if the AP isn't awesome. A good shot might see five wounds on a ten man squad, which can make the difference between a kill point in one turn or wasting two on the one or two remaining guys.


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## immortal2u (Dec 27, 2008)

Havoc launchers give rhinos a purpose after they've finished transporting their cargo. The twin linked blast isn't the best thing in the world, but for the same points as a plasma pistol it's much better. It also makes the rhino enough of a threat to draw some of your opponent's firepower away from other units

I like to put kzerkers in a rhino w/ havoc launcher, move 12" and move 12" again (use smoke launchers). Then on turn 3 disembark, move the rhino 6" forward while the kzerkers run behind something (or hopefully into cc). Then i fire the havoc launcher into a crowd. On turn 4 (if it's still alive) I keep charging forward 6" and firing the launcher until my opponent waists some shots to destroy it. This makes it a transport, a wall, a minor tank, and a minor distraction all for only 50 points.


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## tony161 (Jan 27, 2009)

I have choas army, it has 3 land raiders 30 marines, 5 terms a lord in term armour adn thats my 1500pts. Choas rhinos are useless in the first place in my opinion as the tau that everyone uses picks them off, and then lobs [email protected]$p at the the marines, so my army works as a gun line, and still have the power to ram into the enemy.


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