# penal legion squads?



## Tai (Dec 26, 2008)

So since the new IG codex came out, i've seen great lists come out to utilize all the new units. airborne, ogryns, ratlings, advisors, new ordnance tanks, etc... 

but i haven't seen a single list use penal legion squads, or at least in some way that veterans couldn't do better

other than their questionable random special rule, i can't see how they're useful. they cost more than vets, can't take special weapons, and have plain guardsmen stats? i mean at least last chancers from the old codex had bs4

Has anyone tried them? obviously you'd want to make good use of their scouts outflanking, but we're not talking about space marine scouts here, we're talking about guard, with a 1/3 chance of getting rending. Is it a matter of bulk? one trick ponies? luck? i really want to see them used effectively, and consistently, as they have neat fluff, but i just dont see how they wouldn't get outplayed in every way by other squad choices...


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

They might work in an all-Scouts army, with Al'Rahem, and 5 of these guys. Creed too. Vendettas for a-t. But the army would be uncompetitive, I reckon. Note - Ogyrns are also crap.


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## Jackinator (Nov 18, 2008)

I disagree with you there TheKingElessar, the Ogryn's usefulness, lies not in their ability to kill things, but their ability to absorb damage. My Crusader Squads cut through Tactical squads like a hot knife through butter but a squad of Ogryns gives them pause because of the high toughness and horrible amount of wounds.

Anyway, back to Penal Legion, to be honest I've only seen on Guard List with penal legion and I had wiped the squad out by the second turn when I got into combat. It's because they have virtually nil survivability, yeah, outflank is cool, but then they get obliterated as no opponent is going to be stupid enough to ignore a squad like that, that close to their fireline. Against assaulty armies, particuarly power armoured ones they are even worse, since even if they do get rending whatever charged them (or vice versa) will probably wipe them out before they can strike back:alcoholic:.


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## noahms456 (Jun 23, 2009)

I was instantly intrigued by the Penal Legions rules. It calls for conversions, as there are no real figs. I was thinking about getting some WFB empire flagellants to fit the bill.

I guess they are one of those bones thrown to die-hard fans, as mention of the Penal Legions occurs as far back as Rogue Trader.

Much better, IMHO, is the conscripts rule for Commander Chenkov. It's too bad the rules couldn't include some "mass detonation" rule for Penal Legions Troops engaged in hand to hand combat. The fluff states clearly that the detonation wouldn't hurt anyone but the collar-wearing prisoner, but it'd be fun to have something like the "if model x is killed in h2h, then deal 1 wound to attacking squad if penal legion custodian is still alive" or something to that effect. What purpose do they serve if not to take out the enemy? Conscripts can expect to advance, but Penal Legions face the infinitesimally small chance at the Emperor's pardon...


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## Bolshavic (Dec 8, 2008)

I have used penal Legion, with some great succes.
Yes outflank is cool but alone they are easy pickings for an enemy commander so unless you have a plan for them outflanking or friends very risky.
But what i have found best to do with these criminals is to hold them back with your gun line close to a commissar Lord and use them to counter attack, though they are gaurd and die quickly stubborn does mean they can hang around longer tying up those hard hitting assault troops/ IC / MC that normally run rampart through gaurd, and with the special rule they might actually sometimes win.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

IMHO, Penal legions are overpriced, and lack usefullness. Their random bonus is can be nice, however, they are far too fragive, and the fact that a basic guard squad with commissar is just a few points more expensive and also stubborn and has good options to give them more oomphs, makes the penal legionairs rather useless.
THe only way I can see them being marginally scary is when creed is yelling at them for furious charge, and even then, they would probably only break even against their enemies.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Ogyrns may be tough in CC, but they'll lose combat every round, and try to flee, with a poor I value. They also aren't too tough to shooting, not with their save...


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Ogyrns may be tough in CC, but they'll lose combat every round, and try to flee, with a poor I value. They also aren't too tough to shooting, not with their save...


Ogryn are TOUGH, 3 wounds at T5 is great against small arms fire (even if they don't get their 5+ save)

Where they REALLY shine though, is charging.
4 S6 attacks on the charge? Hell yes.
AFTER shooting 3 S5 shots that hit on a 4+? HELL YES!
Ogryn are monsters if they get the charge in, otherwise they're just great for mopping up wounds (even a power fist can't instant-kill them, unless on a Warboss or an 'improved' CSM )

They would probably suffer against Eldar though.
Striking Scorpions have the strength of hits, attack quantity, and good armour needed to win against them and take few casualties.
Dire Avengers would reduce their attacks a whole bunch, and the Diresword would usually instant-kill if it wounded.
Let's not even MENTION shining spears.

And when they lose the combat (which you seem to think is inevitable), they are Stubborn, and so probably won't run, especially if you have a Regimental Standard nearby to reroll their morale checks.
Yes, if they do run they lose, but they usually won't, and will kick ass because of it.

I wouldn't consider taking them in a squad of less than 6 though, 3 is just too small.


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