# Eldar errata?



## rata tat tat (Dec 23, 2008)

I recently read Farseer (King) and am now working on Prophecy (Goto) and I find myself really intrigued by the Eldar.

I was wondering a few things though. Just off the top of my head (I'm sure I'll think of more as the thread goes):

1.) What's the average Eldar lifespan?

2.) How psychic is the average Eldar?

3.) How much of their technology is psychic-based?

4.) When they enter the Infinity Circuit do they lose their personality and just sort of blend into the souls of the other dead Eldar?

and, this one is probably easier... they were created by the Old Ones to strengthen/create the Immaterium as a way to combat the Necrons? So, in no way did they evolve, or are they evolving?

ok, just thought of another... why are their no Eldar with bionics?

...

more later probably...


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## Lord of Rebirth (Jun 7, 2008)

1.) In 12 years of being an Eldar fan I have never seen it actually said how long Eldar live but it seems they live a long long time and I have not heard of any dieing outside of battle. It sounds as if things like the warrior aspects take a long time to learn and a longer time to master and the Autarchs are supposedly masters of multiple aspects.

2.) All Eldar are all supposed to be psychic as a lot of their technology is controlled psychically. Whether that means they are of a level to be intuitive on what others are thinking or whether they can full on read minds I wouldn't know.

3.) From what I have read all Eldar technology is psycho-active plastics and wraithbone which is all psychically grown and it is powered with psychic energy conduits and opening doors requires psychic resonance.

4.) Since Eldar souls/spirits can be taken back out of the Infinity Circuit to control things like Wraithgaurd and Wraithlords that act somewhat like the dead Eldar I'd say they don't lose all their self but since Eldar technology is so advanced and their understanding of psychic energy is so intuitive I wouldn't think they would be unable to create a wraith construct that is not able to fully inter-mesh to the control soul/spirit.


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

There have been a few eldar with bionic prostheses, but these tend to be outcasts from the main group, living on the fringes of human society (but having access to the higher tech levels). There's a character for Inquisitor that has a bionic eye, for example.

secondly. Using Goto as a source of 'accurate' eldar fluff ... shudder. You'd be better off reading Dark Heresy and Inquisitor rulebooks and articles. Most of the eldar 'fans' and players I know would sooner dig out their own eyeballs with a blunt spoon than read another Goto novel.


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## rata tat tat (Dec 23, 2008)

chromedog said:


> There have been a few eldar with bionic prostheses, but these tend to be outcasts from the main group, living on the fringes of human society (but having access to the higher tech levels). There's a character for Inquisitor that has a bionic eye, for example.
> 
> secondly. Using Goto as a source of 'accurate' eldar fluff ... shudder. You'd be better off reading Dark Heresy and Inquisitor rulebooks and articles. Most of the eldar 'fans' and players I know would sooner dig out their own eyeballs with a blunt spoon than read another Goto novel.


Yeah, Goto, hahaha. Since there seems to be relatively little Eldar fluff though I thought Prophecy was pretty good. He's actually kind of in his element, because he's good at departing from canon... in this case there is virtually none. :good:

Anyone else on here ever read the Elfquest fiction by Wendy and Richard Pini? I know GW steals ideas from everywhere and the craftworlds definitely smack of the High Ones' citadel/ship.

Also the psychic technology bit. It seems quite similar to the Shapers of Elfquest. Metal Shapers, Wood Shapers, Stone Shapers... Wraithbone Shapers?

My bet is that the Eldar have full-on psychic healers that can regenerate limbs. That's why their are no bionics and their armour is comparitively weak compared to the Imperium. If they lose a part it's much easier to have it healed. Plus, being a psychic race they're probably much more attuned to their bodies' energy fields and whatnot.

I really enjoyed the way Goto portrayed the foibles of a psychic race. It made them sound like a society of manic-depressives in a way. Every mood is contagious and their basic drive is to seek aesthetic pleasure and comfort... thus leading so easily to the decadence that created Slannesh.

Goto may have his failings but these two books, and especially Goto's, made me appreciate the Eldar as much more than the pointy-eared, limp wrists they seem to be. :good:


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## Grik (Jul 28, 2008)

Virtually no Eldar fluff? WTF mate?! There are tons of Eldar fluff. Most of the really good fluff is Second Edition. The Second Edition Eldar Codex is chock full of really good fluff. You just have to look around, the Eldar fluff is to be found.


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## rata tat tat (Dec 23, 2008)

Grik said:


> Virtually no Eldar fluff? WTF mate?! There are tons of Eldar fluff. Most of the really good fluff is Second Edition. The Second Edition Eldar Codex is chock full of really good fluff. You just have to look around, the Eldar fluff is to be found.


Word. I'll look around for that Codex. Is it still considered canon though?


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## Grik (Jul 28, 2008)

rata tat tat said:


> Word. I'll look around for that Codex. Is it still considered canon though?


Probably not in every little detail as GW is constantly changing what is fluff and what isn't as it suits their desires and whims. But it will give you a very good idea of what it means to be an Eldar.


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## Arduous Miles (Jun 2, 2008)

Hi, good to see that there are other people interested in the Eldar fluff 

I just wanted to supply an answer to your first question about the average lifespan. (since it seems the others have already been answered.) You're in a bit of luck, by the way, because I've been researching these things a bit while working on the fluff for my corsair army 

There are several mentions of Eldar lifespan in newer official fluff. For instance, in the 4th edition codex, it states that Eldar "commonly survive... for over a thousand years before old age overtakes them [3]." Elsewhere (I believe also in the Eldar 4th edition codex), it is mentioned that seers can extend their lifespans by lengths proportional to their psychic ability. Unfortunately, specific examples of how long this can be are hard to find. Eldrad Ulthran's entry in the codex simply states that "Eldrad lived for a great many centuries [50]," which is subject to interpretation. I would say that powerful farseers could probably have lived for a few millennia or so.

Regarding the dark kin, however, we get a very interesting bit of information. In the short story _The Torturer's Tale,_ from GW's website, Asdrubael Vect, Overlord of the Kabal of the Black Heart, reveals that he himself was a child at the time of the Fall. This fact, if true, surely makes him one of the oldest Eldar alive - very likely the oldest. The way that it is possible for Vect to still be alive after ten thousand years is that the dark kin consume souls not only to replenish themselves from the drain of soul energy that the presence of The Great Enemy subjects them to, but also to increase their life spans. The more souls they consume, the longer they live. However, the cost is increased dramatically the longer they go on like this.

On page 46 of the 3rd edition Dark Eldar Codex, there is a story in which an old archon tells his young servant who betrayed and attempted to kill him how he had to consume ten thousand souls every day in order to "fill the chasm of [his] soul." He calls this need for souls "the Thirst" and explains that since she (his traitorous servant) was young, the Thirst had but a shallow grip on her.

Interesting stuff, no?


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## Grik (Jul 28, 2008)

Eldrad was around at the time of the Heresy too. He is mentioned in one of the Heresy books, I think it's Fulgrim. Eldrad finally 'dies' a few years after the last Black Crusade. I forgot all the specific details, and as I'm at work can't easily look them up, but I shall do so once I get home tonight. Eldrard and Vect are extreme examples of Eldar lifespans, but Eldar commonly live for a thousand years or so.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Indeed Eldrad had been around since the time of the Great Crusade and considering he was a powerful Seer then, Its logical to assume hes been around since before Vect (as he was only a young child at the time of the fall, The Great Crusade then obviously follows the Fall of the Eldar.)

And Heres a quote telling of what happens to him:

"During the Thirteenth Black Crusade, the Eldar of Ulthwe fought against the forces of Chaos, and Eldrad was at the forefront, knowing he would not live to see the end of the conflict. Eldrad attempted to retake a Blackstone Fortress, but the fortress was already occupied by Slaanesh, the Great Enemy. As Eldrad realised his folly, his soul was devoured, and the greatest Farseer of the Eldar was lost, however a handfull of waystones he had created still remained active causing some Eldar to believe that he's still alive but trapped in the warp."


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

So i guess we wont be seeing imbeldrad in new eldar codex xD, i will add abit to the psychic side of eldar: as i remember humans dont really have soul after death (only the exceptional characters and alike), while eldar have such strong psyche, that their souls remain even after death. Also personalities do remain after death, as in "Fulgrim", Fulgrim himself pwned a wraithlord, who was a close friend to eldrad and his personality was greatly represented even as he was in the wraith form.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MyI)arkness said:


> So i guess we wont be seeing imbeldrad in new eldar codex xD, i will add abit to the psychic side of eldar: as i remember humans dont really have soul after death (only the exceptional characters and alike), while eldar have such strong psyche, that their souls remain even after death. Also personalities do remain after death, as in "Fulgrim", Fulgrim himself pwned a wraithlord, who was a close friend to eldrad and his personality was greatly represented even as he was in the wraith form.


The Only reason Eldar souls dont fizzle and die out like the souls of other races is because of their Spirit Stones. The Spirits Stones as you likely know is just a way in which the Eldar avoid getting consumed by Slaanesh, as unprotected Eldar souls upon the Eldars death will automatically be consumed by Slaanesh. 

The Chaos Marines codex tells us that Souls simply fizzle out when mortals die (Unless there is some way of sustaining them. EG - Infinity circuits, Methods of an extremley powerful Psyker (emperor?) etc

The Souls of Chaos Worshippers when they die however are absorbed by their patrons and increase the power of their god.

:good:


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The Only reason Eldar souls dont fizzle and die out like the souls of other races is because of their Spirit Stones. The Spirits Stones as you likely know is just a way in which the Eldar avoid getting consumed by Slaanesh, as unprotected Eldar souls upon the Eldars death will automatically be consumed by Slaanesh.
> 
> The Chaos Marines codex tells us that Souls simply fizzle out when mortals die (Unless there is some way of sustaining them. EG - Infinity circuits, Methods of an extremley powerful Psyker (emperor?) etc
> 
> ...


I should correct you there - eldar souls are not the mortal souls (as i mentioned) and before the great menstruation eldar souls would reincarnate to new body and that way they would live forever, nowdays their souls are either consumed by slaanesh or trapped in spirit stones :ireful2: :biggrin:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MyI)arkness said:


> I should correct you there - eldar souls are not the mortal souls (as i mentioned) and before the great menstruation eldar souls would reincarnate to new body and that way they would live forever, nowdays their souls are either consumed by slaanesh or trapped in spirit stones :ireful2: :biggrin:


I'd never heard that before? could you point me to your source?  In a similar way to the ancient Shamans on Terra use to reincarnate? because that is no longer possible due to the current nature of the warp (chaotic). 

And of course Exodite Eldars' souls are placed into the World Spirit of their planet upon death, the Harlequins' soul is protected by Cegorach, and the Dark Eldar consume souls to replenish their own which are constantly depleted because of The Thirst. 

:good:


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

It seems right what you say, i dont really remember where ive read it, because it was long ago when i was "into eldar", probably either old rulebook or their codex or their old codex


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## Micklez (Nov 22, 2008)

MyI)arkness is right CotE, Eldar souls dont fizzle out in the Warp when they die, thats why they need the Spirit-stones. Without a spirit stone, an eldar who dies will have their soul consumed by Slannesh for eternity. Only by usng the soul stone to collect the soul can they be offered a chance at peace, but only if the stone is brought back the the Infinity Matrix in the Craftworld. Exerdites (?) have something similar bu different, there spirit stones are placed in something on their homeworld


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Micklez said:


> MyI)arkness is right CotE, Eldar souls dont fizzle out in the Warp when they die, thats why they need the Spirit-stones. Without a spirit stone, an eldar who dies will have their soul consumed by Slannesh for eternity. Only by usng the soul stone to collect the soul can they be offered a chance at peace, but only if the stone is brought back the the Infinity Matrix in the Craftworld. Exerdites (?) have something similar bu different, there spirit stones are placed in something on their homeworld


Aye i knew all that, apart from the fact that the Eldar Souls (pre-Slaanesh) actually didnt fizzle out and fade. Whats the source for this if you have one? 

I knew they were very psychic potent as a race, and very attuned to the warp but i didnt realise their souls lingered after death (again Pre-Slaanesh, as now they'll just get consumed!) :biggrin:


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

Well meperors child, if their souls get consumed by slaanesh after death, that means they dont fizzle out, so they shouldnt have fizzled out pre-slaanesh too : P


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MyI)arkness said:


> Well meperors child, if their souls get consumed by slaanesh after death, that means they dont fizzle out, so they shouldnt have fizzled out pre-slaanesh too : P


Not at all, Human souls can be consumed by Chaos gods, but there souls do fizzle out and fade if not sustained in some way.


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

But how can human souls be consumed, if they cant sustain themselves after bodies death?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MyI)arkness said:


> But how can human souls be consumed, if they cant sustain themselves after bodies death?


instead of human souls fading away, they are consumed, absorbed into the god, the life force of the soul further empowers the particular god. (this is what happens to human Chaos Worshippers anyway)

If they are not absorbed into the power of a Chaos god they will not sustain themselves and will simply fade away. And i imagine the same could have been said about the Eldar (Pre-Slaanesh) - now Slaanesh has a bond with the Eldar as it was they who almost exclusively created him/her, so will automatically consume their souls upon death instead of them just fading away


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Micklez said:


> MyI)arkness is right CotE, Eldar souls dont fizzle out in the Warp when they die, thats why they need the Spirit-stones. Without a spirit stone, an eldar who dies will have their soul consumed by Slannesh for eternity. Only by usng the soul stone to collect the soul can they be offered a chance at peace, but only if the stone is brought back the the Infinity Matrix in the Craftworld. Exerdites (?) have something similar bu different, there spirit stones are placed in something on their homeworld


I think it's called the World Spirit for Exodites. And it's the Infinity Circuit, not Matrix.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Creon said:


> I think it's called the World Spirit for Exodites. And it's the Infinity Circuit, not Matrix.


Aye thats correct


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> If they are not absorbed into the power of a Chaos god they will not sustain themselves and will simply fade away. And i imagine the same could have been said about the Eldar (Pre-Slaanesh)


You just dont trust me do you, besides its obvious eldar have much stronger psyche than humans, i think ill try to find where ive read that:S


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## Micklez (Nov 22, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> If they are not absorbed into the power of a Chaos god they will not sustain themselves and will simply fade away. And i imagine the same could have been said about the Eldar (Pre-Slaanesh) - now Slaanesh has a bond with the Eldar as it was they who almost exclusively created him/her


I remember a bit of fluff on lexicanum I was readin a while back that pre-slannesh eldar could actually reincarnated after death. im looking for it now



Creon said:


> I think it's called the World Spirit for Exodites. And it's the Infinity Circuit, not Matrix.


cheers mate, my bad


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MyI)arkness said:


> You just dont trust me do you, besides its obvious eldar have much stronger psyche than humans, i think ill try to find where ive read that:S


:biggrin: 

im just thinking would it have been plausable that they could reincarnate seeing as though the warp was already (or at least starting to become) chaotic?



Micklez said:


> I remember a bit of fluff on lexicanum I was readin a while back that pre-slannesh eldar could actually reincarnated after death. im looking for it now


Ok - i look forward to reading it if you can find it :biggrin:


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## Irillith (Apr 5, 2009)

My second post! I would say:

1.) The Eldar lifespan is usually given as over 1,000 years (in several Codex versions, including the 2008 one (p.3) and White Dwarf 127, the earliest large expansion on the Eldar background); after this they grow old and die. Presumng they haven't been shot. *sigh*

2.) There's no hard and fast description for just how psychic the average Eldar is that I know, but I believe that the same sources as above state that "all Eldar can manipulate mental energies to some degree" (2008 Codex, p.3). Given that a lot of Eldar would take the Witch Path at some time in their lives, I would say that all of them have the potential to do so, but that (like artistic abilty) the degree of psychic ability varies between individuals.

In the less-dependable realm of fiction, in Harlequin (Ian Watson) a Guardian can staunch bleeding by a sort of psychic meditation/concentration, and it's not said that this is any kind of Seer, just a regular Guardian. Perhaps this kind of thing forms part of Guardian training?

I couldn't tell you what CS Goto says, as I won't have anything to do with his novel (he seems like a nice man and all, but no).

3.) Almost all Eldar tech is psychic-based on board the Craftworlds, as most of it ultimately draws power from the Infinity Matrix/Circuits (I've seen both terms used, I'd use Matrix when referring to the placing of the souls of the dead most likely). The Exodites have a lot less reliance on such tech, but they do have access to it - they just prefer a more survivalist approach.

"The materials that Eldar use in their engineering are complex and varied psychoplastics that can readily be formed into solid shapes under psychic pressure." (2008 Codex, p.13)

4.) When an Eldar soul enters the Infinity Matrix they do not lose their individuality, but "his individual consciousness remians as a potential within the circuit." (2008 Codex, p. 14). Once a body dies, the soul no longer percieves things in the same way as it no longer has a sensory mechanism: when placed into a construct such as a Wraithguard, the Eldar can act through it but as in the spiritual existence "The consciousness of the dead is never as fully alert or individual as that of the living, for it for it exists at once in the real world and the spiritual world of the warp, and moves through reality as in a dream where thought and feelings are as tangible as steel and stone." (1994 Codex, p.7)


The way the Eldar tell it, their own Gods made them. I don't know about the Old Ones enough to say, I'm sorry 

I don't think Eldar have any canon line on bionics, but I would imagine that only Pirates and Outcasts would make much use of non-Eldar tech in them, both from opportunity and perhaps inclination. Also, and this is speculation, I think that much non-Eldat tech might seem a bit "clunky" to an Eldar, much as Eldar tech might seem fragile and too spindly to a Human.

It's just my opinion, but GW don't seem to make old canon redundant except by specific decree (the pronouncement on Squats for example), so it could all be relevant. The Eldar fluff is generally not too bad for contradictions that I've found, so that works quite well.


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> :biggrin:
> 
> im just thinking would it have been plausable that they could reincarnate seeing as though the warp was already (or at least starting to become) chaotic?


Well maybe it wasnt chaotic enough,,,besides, eldar planets can sustain their psychic powers even in the eye of terror or how its called (like in novel daemon world) so it might just be that eldar worlds had resistance to warp effects.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MyI)arkness said:


> Well maybe it wasnt chaotic enough,,,besides, eldar planets can sustain their psychic powers even in the eye of terror or how its called (like in novel daemon world) so it might just be that eldar worlds had resistance to warp effects.


Well you could argue that in the novel Daemonworld, Veq allowed the Maiden World to 'survive'  And of course it was dormant, and when it did 'awake' it destroyed itself (is that right?! havnt read it in ages!) because of the chaos corruption.


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

Ive read it recently, as i remember the planet was resisting warp, but Veq "pwned" it, but instead of destroying it he corrupted it with chaos and put it into kindof psy prison, in the end he free'd it and planet destroyed itself...so im thinking that eldar might have always had good resistance to warp effects, except for that massive menstruation xD


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