# Sm vs necrons



## DAvo001 (Jun 30, 2008)

are there any specific tactics on kill these thing or is it a simple case of shooting them and watching them stand up for 6 turn because of a resurection orb and a inability to fail 4+ rolls ( my friend also has battle suits with sheild generators....yay:no:.....)


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

combat

simply put, necrons suck humongous amounts of uber-suck in combat.


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## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

Bring terminators. Necrons lack AP2, and you will smash them in combat and deny WBB.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Necrons have some easy ways to deal with Terminators: Heavy Destroyers (S9, AP2), C'tan and Lords.

To win vs Necrons you have to play the mission. Simple. Necrons will often get back up, but that does not mean they can get to the objectives in order to hold them. And as long as you kill entire units you still get a kill point even if they get back up.

Don't bother with cheap gimmicks like going for Phase Out, it won't work vs 99% of Necron players and you are effectively giving them the game.

That said, Plasma weapons and any weapons of S8 and above will put pressure on the Warriors to group closely together to survive, and is then an opportunity to use large template blasts against them.
Don't invest too many points in vehicles vs Necrons, even with the nerf of 5th ed. the Necrons still eat armour for every meal - it's easy points for them.
If you have power weapons then getting into close combat is your best bet, but that is not always as easy as it seems.

Necrons are not easy for SMs to beat, thats just the way it is.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

For the record, I edited your thread title. You'll get better advice if you don't intentionally piss off other members, especially Necron players who would actually have insider knowledge of how their army works and could offer you the best help. 

That said, Darklove has some good advice. A lot of necron armies focus on warriors because they're (relatively) cheap, give you bodies to prevent phase out and they're still quite effective. however, they are slow and won;t be making last minute objective grabs any time soon.

Take out their fast, heavily armed Destroyers, then run circles around them with assault squads and the like.

Against 'crosn I would suggest PWs and LCs before going for Fists...the added strength will ensure wounds, but less attacks means less models you can kill that won;t get back up again, and a fist isn;t going to do much to a 'lith anyway, so focus on weeding the little bastards out when you get into combat

I think with their speed, assault capability and mobile high-strehgth/AP guns, Blood Angels are pretty well set up to handle crons.


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## Ferik (Nov 5, 2008)

I played a game against Necrons last weekend and found that due to their glancing rules they could not take out my Venerable Dreadnaughts with Extra Armour and I would promptly get them into assault and run them down and they don't get up from a sweeping advance.


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## Omnicide (Jan 7, 2009)

Ferik said:


> I played a game against Necrons last weekend and found that due to their glancing rules they could not take out my Venerable Dreadnaughts with Extra Armour and I would promptly get them into assault and run them down and they don't get up from a sweeping advance.


It's hard, but we can. Just requires a lot of immobilized rolls.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Even so, vehicles are probably a good plan against necrons right now, especially transports and CC dreads. These don't tend to mind much if they are shaken or have the odd gun shot off, which is the usual result of a glancing hit.

Termie assault squad in a land raider redeemer, problem solved.


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

oh... Landraider Redeemer aswell. That thing tears necrons apart. 

If you're taking Terminators, get them one of these as a transport.


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## jaren (Jul 7, 2008)

a local guy used just a on of shooting, that is 2 thunderfire cannons 2 dev squads and a ton of troops, overwhelm the 'crons.

this was at 2000 points.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I'd take lots of tactical squads, 6 with lascannon and plasma gun in each, that should be able to deal with any number of Monoliths easily and out range most units, and deal with the warriors in no time, then just slap a few vehicles in like predators galore and dreads, a cheap HQ and away you go.


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## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> I'd take lots of tactical squads, 6 with lascannon and plasma gun in each, that should be able to deal with any number of Monoliths easily and out range most units, and deal with the warriors in no time, then just slap a few vehicles in like predators galore and dreads, a cheap HQ and away you go.


With tactical squads, you lose the ability to fire the lascannon if the squad moves, and if you don't move your SMurfs don't get close to assulting the necron warriors. How do you get around that?

Another problem is if the lascannon shoots at the monolith doesn't the entire tactical squad have to shoot at it? Each lascannon has about a 3.7% chance of destroying the monolith per turn, so with 6 it gives you about a 20% chance per turn of destroying it, but wastes all your bolter fire.


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## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

Foolish is the man who uses lascannons to kill armor 14. S10 or don't bother. Those lascannons will do much better plinking destroyers.

Use vindicators, or dreadnaught CCWs to kill monoliths. Anything else is wasting your time.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

NecronCowboy said:


> With tactical squads, you lose the ability to fire the lascannon if the squad moves, and if you don't move your SMurfs don't get close to assulting the necron warriors. How do you get around that?


combat squadding, if they get in assault range I'd rather be rapid firing the plasma gun and 4 boltguns at the warriors


NecronCowboy said:


> Another problem is if the lascannon shoots at the monolith doesn't the entire tactical squad have to shoot at it? Each lascannon has about a 3.7% chance of destroying the monolith per turn, so with 6 it gives you about a 20% chance per turn of destroying it, but wastes all your bolter fire.


combat squadding, and I ignore maths in games, it has no relation to anything once the dice hit the table


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

How about...don't bother killing monoliths. deep strike some assault termies. A land raider redeemer or even a regular land raider would tear up the necrons. Grab a vindi or two and drop pie plates. Necrons used to be frightening because of WBB, but now, not so much. It's the Phase Out rule that causes them to lose.


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## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

Combat squads will hurt you dearly though once you play Annilation, which should be 1/3 of the games you play, since each 5 man squad counts as a scoring point.


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## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

Steel Rain said:


> How about...don't bother killing monoliths. deep strike some assault termies. A land raider redeemer or even a regular land raider would tear up the necrons. Grab a vindi or two and drop pie plates. Necrons used to be frightening because of WBB, but now, not so much. It's the Phase Out rule that causes them to lose.


It's soooo easy for pretty much any Necron piece to get a glance against a land raider, and 4/6 results of a glance result in the land raider not even being able to fire for a turn. That's almost 300 points of your opponents force out of the game for a turn.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

Land Raiders can't capture objectives though. Necrons count on Monoliths being fire magnets. Space Marine players should be the same way with Land Raiders. As long as the Necrons are firing at the Land Raider, they are not firing at your objective scoring troops or getting kill points. The Land Raider and its variants have far too much damage potential to ignore for very long.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

NecronCowboy said:


> Combat squads will hurt you dearly though once you play Annihilation, which should be 1/3 of the games you play, since each 5 man squad counts as a scoring point.


yes, but you'd have 12 of those 5 man units, take a razorback with every unit and zoom forward 3 of those 5 man units on top of 2 objectives each, thats 15 men and 3 razorbacks on two objectives each out of lets say 3, you have enough cover and there staying put.


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## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

Steel Rain said:


> Land Raiders can't capture objectives though. Necrons count on Monoliths being fire magnets. Space Marine players should be the same way with Land Raiders. As long as the Necrons are firing at the Land Raider, they are not firing at your objective scoring troops or getting kill points. The Land Raider and its variants have far too much damage potential to ignore for very long.


Also keep in mind most glancing hits are going to cause a land raider to lose it's shooting phase, while the monolith can always shoot it's particle whip providing that it doesn't teleport anything.


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## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> yes, but you'd have 12 of those 5 man units, take a razorback with every unit and zoom forward 3 of those 5 man units on top of 2 objectives each, thats 15 men and 3 razorbacks on two objectives each out of lets say 3, you have enough cover and there staying put.


Cover save of 4+ doesn't really matter when you already get a 3+, and the Necrons can sit there and trade rapid fire all day with SM's, since they are pretty much even there, except half of the Necrons you kill will get back up.


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

NecronCowboy said:


> Also keep in mind most glancing hits are going to cause a land raider to lose it's shooting phase, while the monolith can always shoot it's particle whip providing that it doesn't teleport anything.



power of the machine spirit
:good:


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

Same strategy though, cowboy. It takes a lot of self control to ignore the big dangerous vehicle that's right in front of you and actually focus on killing what will win the game.


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## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

Steel Rain said:


> Same strategy though, cowboy. It takes a lot of self control to ignore the big dangerous vehicle that's right in front of you and actually focus on killing what will win the game.


My strategy would be to concentrate on things I can reliably kill and work towards the goal of that mission, while also taking a few shots here and there against the land raider, if you get lucky and take it out then you can take advantage of it to win the game.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

NecronCowboy said:


> My strategy would be to concentrate on things I can reliably kill and work towards the goal of that mission, while also taking a few shots here and there against the land raider, if you get lucky and take it out then you can take advantage of it to win the game.


Isn't that what we were talking about? If you assume your opponent is going to focus fire on the land raider, you can either capture objectives or kill the warriors to cause phase out. If he focuses on your troops, the land raider is going to make him pay for it.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

NecronCowboy said:


> Cover save of 4+ doesn't really matter when you already get a 3+, and the Necrons can sit there and trade rapid fire all day with SM's, since they are pretty much even there, except half of the Necrons you kill will get back up.


except the ones being gunned down by 3 plasma guns, plus with 3 twin-linked HB's and 12 boltguns (perhaps rapid firing), even half getting up of whatever is left ain't gonna be much of a worry, especially if those lascannons are now able to lend an assist


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## Codename_boyscout (Jan 4, 2009)

Personally i love it whenever anyone tells me before a game that they ignore monoliths and just go for Phase out. The reason why is because like steel rain said it takes ALOT of self control to ignore the big giant tank with the S9 weapon and that keeps making all my warriors vanish only to re-appear usually with more of their fallen comrades and rapid fire again. Every one of my opponents who has ever told me that they ignore the monolith and go for phase out, ends up spending most of the game worried about the monolith and trying to stop it. Usually i end up winning the game because despite everything they say about ignoring the lith, they can't. I'm not trying to say that Phase Out can't be done. but the games where i have lost it has actually been because my opponent focused on the objectives rather than just going for a PO. in an anniahlation game focus on kill points, and if you happen to have a LC then yeah a monolith may as well be a kill point to try for. In an objective gamemake sure you take and hold you objective(s) and then try for a las minute contest of mine... cause chances are that i am going to be able to hold mine. I'm not saying that PO is impossible.But it will usually cause you alot more stress than simply trying for kill points, or objectives.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm not saying that going for the Phase Out is the end all be all of anti-Necron tactics. However, focusing on the monolith is the problem. That's what I was talking about. It's a common rookie mistake to fear the monolith and focus fire on it. Meanwhile, the rest of the army is capturing objectives.


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## Navoc13 (Dec 3, 2008)

ive just recent gone back to SM since glancing at the new codex. i just want to state a few (probably obvious) points.

-We have an absolutely ridiculous amount of AP 3 templates (cron killers)
-We can drop massive amounts of troops / dreads behind our enemy on 1st turn
-Chief Librarian Tig. ..... yep

I played crons for a while before going back to SM. I dont know what models you have but heres a few ideas.

-Toss Librarian Tig. in a redeemer with some CC termies (lightning claws are my preferance) and butcher the warriors ASAP

-Vindicators....i love them

-Drop Pods w/ DWL and ironclads w/ 2 h.flamers

The point i must stress the most about fighting crons...dont both shooting the lith. its damn near invulncible. By not focusing fire on it you are killing more units. This forces the necron player to use the lith for teleporting, denying the pesky Particle whip. Maybe a few ML shots or somthing like that at it every turn, but dont make it your main focus.

Anyway, i can see a few differant ways we have to kill crons, just a matter of persistance and templates in my opinion. Hope this helps and good luck! :victory:


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I think that the key difference between the land raider and the monolith is the termie assault squad in the land raider. These guys are interesting because, while the monolith can port units away from them and shoot them with its big gun, they tend to have killed the thing they hit and ignore the shooting. In any case, it can't port people and shoot at the same time. The land raider can transport people and fry whole units of necrons at a time, at the same time.

To be honest I don't rate necrons as an army at all. Most games I've played have involved picking off the few units they have that are actually dangerous (destroyers and... oh only the destroyers) and then either shooting or charging the warriors to cause phase out.

I did think I'd never lost to necrons but thinking back actually I did lose a game once with my Tau back in 3rd edition. Not sure I've ever actually enjoyed a game against them though, or played a game in which there wasn't an argument about the WBB rules (which "nobody" understands).


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

Necrons definitely need an update. That's for sure.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Someguy said:


> Not sure I've ever actually enjoyed a game against them though


very true, I've always found them a little too easy (except for bad rolling armored companies :biggrin, and the majority of the people who play them seem to have faaaaaar too much confidence in there choices, then get angry when it dies :laugh:


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I always win as Necrons. SM and CSM are the easiest to win against, which is why so many people say the Necrons are broken - they are just to tough to beat.


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

darklove said:


> I always win as Necrons. SM and CSM are the easiest to win against, which is why so many people say the Necrons are broken - they are just to tough to beat.


strange, i've never lost to necrons as SM :biggrin:


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Whizzwang said:


> strange, i've never lost to necrons as SM :biggrin:


Please, please, please post your list and tactics for other SM players so I can pass them around my club! :good:

Really. They lose so badly that they refuse to play ANY Necrons players. Even experienced players.:cray:

BA, DA, BT and generic; they all struggle and lose.

If you've never lost then tell us how you do it so we can spread the word and get some interesting games at last.:shok:


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Whizzwang said:


> strange, i've never lost to necrons as SM :biggrin:


Guard for me :biggrin:
(except the armoured company of bad rolling doom, 8 pie plates, 1 turn, all scatter, all miss....................oh crumbs )


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

There was a legendary game at a GT where a necron guy got phased out without even having a turn. He decided to try and hide a lot of stuff behind a monolith, but that got exploded by a lascannon or something. 3 pie plates landed on a bunch of warriors and that was that.

I'm not really sure how these guys are losing all these games Darklove. Tell them to take a LR redeemer and put assault terminators in it.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Just my two bits,

Get them in combat, beat them, and watch them run. Any sort of decent amount of power weapon attacks and you'll be slaughtering them in no time.


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## PhoenixLord (Jan 14, 2009)

darklove said:


> Please, please, please post your list and tactics for other SM players so I can pass them around my club! :good:
> 
> Really. They lose so badly that they refuse to play ANY Necrons players. Even experienced players.:cray:
> 
> ...



Well a friend of mine plays necrons and i think i have lost every single game against him which leads me to adopt the arguement (more of an excuse it seems :biggrin that some necron rules need to be changed because it is not fair to be able to field the best core troops AND still be able to use 2 [email protected][email protected]#$ Monoliths or that Emperor damned Necron lord who can be an army by himself if having 2 upgrades at no considerable cost.The result in every game is me killing some warriors in every turn and half of them lifting up from the dead.

Now i may sound a bit extravagant but having the best troops, the most mobile heavy support in the game , some of the best(if not the best) HQ with the best support for the already steel-resilient troops and on top of that a single vehicle that can act as a defensive barrier or an offensive-teleporting killing machine....it just doesn't sound good to any player who tries to figure out "hmm... so they get up on 4+ so what i have to do is...?".

In the Emperor's name i shall purge these 3+ armor save skeletal aliens in my next game versus the necrons with my all-mighty SMURF PLASMA!!HAR HAR


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Well I think the first thing you need to understand, when going against necrons, is that marines are pretty much the worst possible guys at engaging them in a direct fire fight. Your bolter guys vs his necron warriors is obviously only going to end one way when you are both basically the same cost, with basically the same chance of killing each other, which he ignores half the time and you don't. Do not try to out shoot necron warriors with tactical marines.

The first thing you must do is to knock over whole squads rather than just a couple of guys from each. Necrons can't get up again if they don't have friends nearby. If you want to do this with shooting then you need to have quite a lot of shooting, but more importantly it needs to be mobile and preferably long ranged, so you can focus it correctly.

If you are assaulting then land raiders, and specifically land raider redeemers, are very effective. You then want some kind of scary assault unit inside, preferably a termie assault squad with a mix of lightning claws and thunder hammers. It's nice if you can wipe the whole unit but not essential. A unit fleeing below half strength is good enough.

Killing a monolith is not easy. You can have a decent chance if you can get a dread (or lysander) next to it or if you have a lot of lascannons. Each lascannon has a 1/18 chance of killing a monolith though, and any hits that don't kill it are virtually meaningless, so consider whether 18 hits (usually from 27 shots) could be better used elsewhere. If there are multiple monoliths then phase out soon becomes the only practical option. Anything less than a lascannon, your meltas, missile launchers and so on, should almost never be wasted on a monolith. Point these at the destroyers, c'tan, or just have them contribute to the eventual phase out.

This is all before entering the big leagues. Necrons really struggle in envoronments with lash daemon princes, nobz bikers, bloodcrushers and things like that in them.

Remember, standing tactical marines in lines is going to fail, but get used to that. It fails most of the time against most armies.


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

1 - Dev squad 4x plasma cannon
2 - LR Redeemer + Extra Armour
3 - Term assault squad 5xLC (in said redeemer)
4 - Vanguard Sqd + 2x power weapon 1x power fist (if you have the points splash out on a relic blade)
5 - Scout Squad 10x Sniper Rifle
6 - Sternguard 10x Combi plasma gun + Drop pod (land, then combat squad, then annihilate 2 squads in one turn)
7 - Command Squad 4x Plasma gun 1x apothecary + Drop pod

several ways of beating necrons right there.


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## vacantghost (Feb 16, 2008)

any kinda termies would stomp their warriors to hell. Heavy vehicles like landraider helos/redeemers with upgrades would do just as fine. Like galahad said, you'd be aiming for their vehicles first because their warriors are slow as hell and then, you'd be picking them off the table like sitting ducks when you're done with his heavy mobile forces.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Someguy said:


> Well I think the first thing you need to understand, when going against necrons, is that marines are pretty much the worst possible guys at engaging them in a direct fire fight. Your bolter guys vs his necron warriors is obviously only going to end one way when you are both basically the same cost, with basically the same chance of killing each other, which he ignores half the time and you don't. Do not try to out shoot necron warriors with tactical marines.
> 
> The first thing you must do is to knock over whole squads rather than just a couple of guys from each. Necrons can't get up again if they don't have friends nearby. If you want to do this with shooting then you need to have quite a lot of shooting, but more importantly it needs to be mobile and preferably long ranged, so you can focus it correctly.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything apart from the Lash Princes. They have never been a problem in my games, including at a tournament when someone used 2 flying Daemon Princes that both had Lash.

I think a lot of SM players try to use their Land Raiders as a static gun platform, rather than as a way of delivering CC troops to the front line asap.


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