# Would You Join Chaos?



## TRU3 CHAOS

Though its probably not possible, imagine that you were in the 40k world and you were human. No, not other races, lets just stick with the race you know how to live with the best. Would you join the chaos powers or stick with the Imperium? And why?

My choice: I say heck with the emperor and his Imperium. I don't like it. But I would like to work as someone with power in the Imperium that made a pact with the chaos gods in exchange for knowledge on the Imperium's military secrets. I hope that somehow it would protect me from being a chaos bitch.


----------



## hailene

Probably not. Chances are I'd be killed randomly. Possessed by a daemon, or otherwise have my immortal soul destroyed or eaten by daemons.

What's the worst that the Imperium can throw at the (majority) of its citizens? A brutal life of hard work and little reward? Better than being eaten by daemons.


----------



## Anfo

Though I play Chaos and really like chaos, I would have to stay loyal to the Emperor. You're screwed no matter who you side with. Everyone will die in the end so I'd like to die not all possessed and weird looking.


----------



## KingOfCheese

hailene said:


> What's the worst that the Imperium can throw at the (majority) of its citizens? A brutal life of hard work and little reward? Better than being eaten by daemons.


*cough*
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fifteen_Hours_(Novel)
*cough*


I think id rather take the chances with Slaanesh.
Would rather live raping shit than die in 15 hours. :laugh:


----------



## Angelus Censura

True that ^^ I would most definitely side with Chaos, but not as a normal human, I would turn traitor as a Space Marine, and probably follow Slaanesh or Khorne



EDIT: as a regular human, turning to chaos will get you about as far as the 15 hours of being on the Imperium's side. Heretics are used as cannon fodder and meat sheilds, Chaos Marines and entities simply use these heretics for opening a portal or finding out information, sabotaging sheild systems so Chaos can land on a planet, etc. After that, their useless and are killed along with the rest of the enemy.


----------



## hailene

No, no. You see, dying a short brutal death is much better than being a daemon's plaything for all of eternity.

To put it mathematically, Short brutal death>Long (60+ years) of toil and hardship>Tortured by a daemon for all of eternity.

Given the average shitiness of everything, a fifteen hour average life span is on the "pretty good" side of the spectrum.


----------



## Imperious

This is a "bad" and "badder" question. 

A) Join the Imperium = meat for the grinder. 
B) Join chaos = meat for something a lot nastier. Eww. 

I'll take option C. I volunteer for the Greater Good.


----------



## Angelus Censura

Something else to think about - Traitor Guard armies people have, who turn the Traitor Guard to a Nurgle Guard army for instance (I'm guilty of doing it, but didn't think about this until after the fact) - Chaos only gives daemonic gifts to Chaos Space Marines because they are the super human, and can do Chaos' bidding best, being deserving of these gifts. How could there be a traitor Guard army with gifts of nurgle - their useless, used as tools for Chaos, to soften things up and ultimately die trying, so that Chaos Space Marines can come in and clean house


----------



## Angel of Blood

Even as a marine i wouldn't turn to chaos, they may sound all bad ass but have you really thought about it? 

Slannesh? So your now a marine who cares about nothing but trying to reach the next level of pleasure AND pain, soon things you like now will have no meaning to you, they will be dull and boring, music etc will go right out the window. I should explain this better, but well point is your now just a freak, nothing of what you once were.

Khorne? do i really need to say more

Nurgle. and again.

Tzeentch is just as likely to turn you into a blob without any distinct form as to give you good powers, and even then your gonna be twisted into something horrific.

Undivided? well you can just get a lovely mix of all four of the above craziness.

Traitor regular human? your just gonna die.

Me? stick with the Imperium any day of the week


----------



## Vaz

Course I'd turn to chaos. If you consider how good I am now, think how awesome I'll be as a Daemon Prince. Because you know I'll be that good at being that bad.


----------



## locustgate

I've read some bl books that had non-CSM leaders that had gifts. 
I would:
A: Join the Tau and fight for the Greater GHood
B: Become a Doctor turn to nurgle inject all of my patients with nurgle's rot and create a cult for nurgle and be it's leader
C: Become a planetary governor turn to slaanesh and make a harem with every good looking chick on my planet


----------



## SnoopyChicken

If I had to be human Id probably stay loyal to the imperium, sure it may SOUND cool to worship chaos, but bear in mind you _actually _have to kill and torture innocents and all manner of other horrible stuff. If I could choose my role Id be a techpriest, I love tinkering with shit.

If I could be anything in the 40k verse Id be an Eldar, crafting stuff with wraithbone appeals to me, as does getting plugged into the infinity circuit


----------



## Doelago

SnoopyChicken said:


> If I had to be human Id probably stay loyal to the imperium, sure it may SOUND cool to worship chaos, but bear in mind you _actually _have to kill and torture innocents and all manner of other horrible stuff.


I would also stay loyal to mankind, but what the heck is wrong with you? You would not want to be an Inquisitor, the only thing you have to do is to *kill* and *torture innocents* all day long and you get *unlimited power!* :shout:


----------



## Chompy Bits

I wouldn't turn to chaos. I'm really not that big on sprouting tentacles or extra appendages. If I had to live in 40k as a human, I'd probably wanna be a rogue trader. Sure it's dangerous but what in 40k isn't? At least you'd have an adventurous life and get to explore the frontiers of space. Not to mention that if you're good at your job you can make some serious cash.


----------



## The Crimson King

Not willingly.


----------



## World Eater XII

Drop of a hat id join the blood pact and start the old rape and pillage!


----------



## Angel of Blood

locustgate said:


> B: Become a Doctor turn to nurgle inject all of my patients with nurgle's rot and create a cult for nurgle and be it's leader
> C: Become a planetary governor turn to slaanesh and make a harem with every good looking chick on my planet


On point B you would probably find yourself at the rather nasty end of a Astartes Chapter, or the Inquisition, failing that a fucking ton of guardman would be thrown at you till your dead dead dead.

On point C, you forgot that in your nice new slannesh state you would have all the good looking men in your harem aswell, and probably alot of ugly fat munters, because hell, your gonna want to find that next level of pleasure, so your gonna be trying everything. Two Girls One Cup, wouldnt be beyond you k:


If i had any choice i would bunker down with my beloved Tanith First and Only


----------



## warsmith7752

i would waltz up to the gates of the imperial palace and yell "OI YOU UP THERE IF YOU DONT LET ME IN RIGHT NOW IM GOING TO BLOW UP WITH CHAOS POWER AND YOU WILL DIE" if that works go see the emporors corpse and tell him if he doesnt give me lots and lots and lots of free stuff IM GOING TO BLOW UP WITH CHAOS POWER AND YOU WILL DIE.

sillyness aside i would not join chaos, chaos space marines may have a decent chance of a good life but a mortal will be killed by some randomer for a laugh


----------



## aboytervigon

I wouldn't I would join the space marines become a tech marine and build a ray that stopped people from using chaos powers and then start a technological revolution.


----------



## LukeValantine

I would join chaos. Mind you I have some very self destructive tendencies, and the core reason I would convert would to be to lay waste to the world that denied me anything but a life of servitude to leaders who care nothing about me and would gladly kill me to buy themselves a mere seconds delay in the rush of battle.

Also if all bets where off I would at least ascend to the rank of magnus, and lacking the idiotic ideology of my fellow followers of chaos, and taking into account my secretive cruel and violent yearnings I imagine I would be far more likely to double cross then to be double crossed. 

Also I have been studying the occult, and the paranormal since I was 7, and had to bury my first pet when it died while I was 8. I also watched as the horrible ravages of disease, and age destroyed the minds and bodies of 2 of my loved ones. So their is little for me to fear in the darkness that hasn't at least been hinted to me by the cruel hand of fate. blah blah blah (Burn bright and die young).


----------



## Masked Jackal

I'd join Chaos in a heartbeat. Sure, 99.9% of the time I'd get killed by some abomination in a horrific way, but there's a .01% chance that all my twisted dreams will come true and I'll become an avatar of the dark gods.


----------



## Angel of Blood

No one who truely believe they would join chaos can really understand what that entails, and if you do, you should be locked. the. fuck. up. or shot, either one, shot probably better for you as your clearly insane and phsycotic.

I mean chaos, its exactly that....chaos. By joining chaos your willingly accepting to slaughter, torture, rape, maim, burn etc innocents, get rid of any relationship, family or friends that have any meaning to you at all. Offer your body willingly to the chaos gods to with it as they please. Probably become a mutant in one way or another. It goes on. I believe the true answer for everyone is the Imperium, Tau or some other independant human group.


----------



## gen.ahab

aboytervigon said:


> I wouldn't I would join the space marines become a tech marine and build a ray that stopped people from using chaos powers and then start a technological revolution.


And then be shot in the forehead by some agent of the mechanicus for tech heresies.


----------



## Waaagh_Bong

gen.ahab said:


> And then be shot in the forehead by some agent of the mechanicus for tech heresies.


^:laugh: Then its looted and used on the battle field. ^

No, i would not join the chaos gods. 

"got me a shoota, life is good !" <---k:


----------



## Grimskul25

Hell no, Chaos are for people who can't handle their own problems and need some "patron" to look out for them and give them power, etc. and ultimately (most of them anyways) get screwed over in the process of doing so. 

As a human you may as well just stick to where ever you're at, even if you're a slave it's better than ending up as a plaything for daemons. As for me I gotta join the WAAAGH! Orks are probably the happiest race in 40K, they love fighting, have got plenty of it and face everything with enthusiasm and a jug full of fungus beer.


----------



## Waaagh_Bong

Grimskul25 said:


> Hell no, Chaos are for people who can't handle their own problems and need some "patron" to look out for them and give them power, etc. and ultimately (most of them anyways) get screwed over in the process of doing so.
> 
> As a human you may as well just stick to where ever you're at, even if you're a slave it's better than ending up as a plaything for daemons. As for me I gotta join the WAAAGH! Orks are probably the happiest race in 40K, they love fighting, have got plenty of it and face everything with enthusiasm and a jug full of fungus beer.


:drinks:WAAAGH!


----------



## aboytervigon

No I would already be the equivalent of a obliterator and probably go mad with power rig the golden throne to explode and start the nathaniel heresy.


----------



## World Eater XII

The big question is which gives you the option of a life less frightening?


----------



## ckcrawford

Grimskul25 said:


> Hell no, Chaos are for people who can't handle their own problems and need some "patron" to look out for them and give them power, etc. and ultimately (most of them anyways) get screwed over in the process of doing so.
> 
> As a human you may as well just stick to where ever you're at, even if you're a slave it's better than ending up as a plaything for daemons. As for me I gotta join the WAAAGH! Orks are probably the happiest race in 40K, they love fighting, have got plenty of it and face everything with enthusiasm and a jug full of fungus beer.


Not really, you last longer both in real life and the warp. It says in the Daemon Codex that those souls dedicated to Chaos are actually able to exist longer than normal souls. Even if I was getting tortured (Though I'd probably be the one doing the torturing) I'd like to exist indefinitely or at least until the gods got tired of me.


----------



## Waaagh_Bong

ckcrawford said:


> Not really, you last longer both in real life and the warp. It says in the Daemon Codex that those souls dedicated to Chaos are actually able to exist longer than normal souls. Even if I was getting tortured (Though I'd probably be the one doing the torturing) I'd like to exist indefinitely or at leasst until the gods got tired of me.


I would still rather be dead on the field baking in the hot sun! Look at Eliphas, he is nothing more then a pawn on the dark gods shite list. he screwed up in DoW-DoW2 and now he will be around long enough to play out his usefulnees in DoW retribution. I hope his stinkin head is on a bosspole by the end of Retribution. 

I would much rather fight for fun and loot! 

to each his own, you go that way and i will go this way.


----------



## LukeValantine

I'm alarmed by the amount of ppl who are coming close to making personal attacks against those that voiced opinions counter to their own, as such I will play the devils advocate.

Most of those commenting seem to forget the main rules ect are written from a imperial perspective, and the current edition rulebook and codex's often do a poor job at times of probing the depths of the fluff. To this effect it is often not spelled out clearly, but is clearly stated in the fiction that almost everyone in the 40k universe ends up the play things of daemons in the end any ways. I mean read the fiction the immaterium is the warp...you know that place where all souls go in 40k. The only difference between the fate of a follower of chaos and that of a regular imperial citizen is when your absorbed by the greater chaos entities your consciousness somewhat remains (However often in servitude). So really its more of a option of a eternity of bondage to a vast gestalt mind of evil intent, or being a insect swept into oblivion by the churning tides of the warp. 

Having said that I imagine some will see why its not such a cut and dry answer to whether you would follow a chaos or not. After all it boils down to a eternity of damnation with a hope of true greatness, or a brief violent life followed by your very soul being shredded, and fed into the warp upon your death. 

Also in regards to Grimskul25 post. Do you really believe that. True many of the low level grunts probably fell do to some failing (Not always), but chaos lords by their very nature have to have almost no weakness they haven't mastered, after all weakness is punished the harshest by chaos.

Remember chaos is not Satan, it is not inherently evil it is just the shattered minds and souls of countless trillions made manifest in all its inherent evil for all to see. If 40k was a far better place it would be heaven, but it is just a mirror of the material realm meaning it is a mad mans dream of the living hell evident in the realm of the living.

On a closing note I always found it funny how even in warhammer a series that prides its self on being grim dark, and morally gray we still have clearly defined bad guys like chaos. Seriously where are the stories of the anti-hero, or those that turned to chaos out of a need for retribution against a wrong falsely visited upon someone. It always boils down to idiotic caricatures where they don't even explain how such individuals became the way they did.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Sorry but i think the days of the codex all being written from the Imperial perspective were over a long time ago.


----------



## DeathTyrant

I'd be loyal. Whether I died and my soul fueled the Emperor, or at worst was left to drift in the warp at risk of void predators, that's still my choice over selling my soul for all eternity to a Chaos God to mess with.


----------



## ckcrawford

Waaagh_Bong said:


> I would still rather be dead on the field baking in the hot sun! Look Eliphas, he is nothing more then a pawn on the dark gods shite list. he screwed up in DoW-DoW2 and now he will be around long enough to play out his usefulnees in DoW retribution. I hope his stinkin head is on a bosspole by the end of Retribution.
> 
> I would much rather fight for fun and loot!
> 
> to each his own, you go that way and i will go this way.


pawn of the chaos gods or the man on a golden toilet. I like chaos. Individuals in this type of universe suffer the worst of the consequences. But I guess you could say you were nobodies bitch... except you would be dead and your soul would be lost for all eternity... so you wouldn't be able to say anything.


----------



## LukeValantine

I think the fundamental problem here is the narrative in 40k is like most fiction incomplete, and as such has much room for individual interpretations, and personal spin. Is the life of a imperial citizen better then your average chaos cultist on a daemon world...maybe depends on who is writing the particular peace of fiction your reading, also I find the current CSM's take on the fluff is a bit well idiotic, back in the day you could have champions who where bathed in the power and glory of chaos, and could fight for millennia, and hold their own against even the greatest hero's of the imperium to, but now as has been stated a thousand times before they are back to being cartoonist 1 dimension super villains (Wrong direction GW). 

Also not all chaos followers become slaves to their gods, in the few good pieces regarding chaos their are examples of undivided, and even those dedicated to a single god doing what they wish, and some even becoming daemon like creatures irking out a eternal existence on the fringes of the warp (DP's, Furies, Warp ghosts).

Seriously though Angel of Blood we get it you don't like chaos, you probably don't even like the general idea behind the army, but not everyone is a imperial fan boy, and if you look at the imperial fiction they have on a number of occasions done things that would make even Khorne blush (Inquisition). In closing its bloody warhammer 40000 everyone is almost as insanely evil as everyone else, there just all different flavors of evil. Hell the imperial cult is just a giant metaphor for the Roman Catholic church during the dark ages, and we all know what nice guys they were and what evil monsters the pagans were (Sarcasm).


----------



## Androxine Vortex

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> Though its probably not possible, imagine that you were in the 40k world and you were human.QUOTE]
> 
> THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE!
> 
> I don't think I would side with Chaos because there is too much of a risk (more like a VERY likely probability) that I would either be a puppet or just have my soul devoured.
> Of course Chaos is appealing to me, and to us all, because Chaos is like sin; if sin wasn't tempting or appealing, why would we be tempted?
> 
> Plus, an eternity of service is a long time.


----------



## TRU3 CHAOS

Well I said chaos with a going on what Baron said on the questions thread. Furies basically have an immortal life on their own... until they get consumed by a bigger creature. So at very least I would be a fish in the sea... But the important thing is that I would be able to go through the ranks of chaos so perhaps I wouldn't be just a little fish.


----------



## Cruor99

Chaos is a lot of things. Hope. Anger. Despair. Lust. 

All those things, that are normal human behaviour. 

The foul Imperium represents oppression. Slavery to a corrupt system, fighting a losing battle against the tides of True Humanity, with True Gods at their side.

Chaos represents hope for the average joe which, let's all be honest here (looking at you wanting to become a Space Marine), we would all be. It takes a lot to be chosen for something more than a simple conscript, at best. 

Chaos represents the chance for Glory Eternal. A chance for the light of Gods to shine upon you, and for you to gain reverence with your peers!

The option is to remain a pityful grey ant in a collapsing anthill. You are merely there for the sake of being there, in servitude of your peers who would think themselves your better.

Take the choice of freedom. 

Join Chaos Undivided.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Cruor99 said:


> Chaos is a lot of things. Hope. Anger. Despair. Lust.
> 
> All those things, that are normal human behaviour.
> 
> The foul Imperium represents oppression. Slavery to a corrupt system, fighting a losing battle against the tides of True Humanity, with True Gods at their side.
> 
> Chaos represents hope for the average joe which, let's all be honest here (looking at you wanting to become a Space Marine), we would all be. It takes a lot to be chosen for something more than a simple conscript, at best.
> 
> Chaos represents the chance for Glory Eternal. A chance for the light of Gods to shine upon you, and for you to gain reverence with your peers!
> 
> The option is to remain a pityful grey ant in a collapsing anthill. You are merely there for the sake of being there, in servitude of your peers who would think themselves your better.
> 
> Take the choice of freedom.
> 
> Join Chaos Undivided.


Im in agreement. Especially looking at this question from an in-universe perspective, where you wouldn't know anything about chaos or the warp gods. Chaos dedication offers freedom from a life of crippling drudgery and worthlessness, through chaos you can achieve your greatest dreams and aspirations. Its obviously not without it's risks, but I would argue its ultimately more rewarding than a pathetic life in servitude to the vile and tyrannical regime that is the Imperium.

And ultimately, all souls end up in the warp anyway - I'd therefore rather live a life which can potentially offer ultimate power and immortality rather than a completely worthless one and end up the plaything of daemons anyway.


----------



## WarMaster Sindr

I would fully heartedly serve chaos man f imperium go chaos


----------



## gen.ahab

I would like to join the space wolves, doubt I would pass the tests, but I would like to try. If I did pass, I would like to kill every SOB that said yes. Lol

In other word, no.


----------



## SnoopyChicken

Cruor99 said:


> The option is to remain a pityful grey ant in a collapsing anthill. You are merely there for the sake of being there, in servitude of your peers who would think themselves your better.
> 
> Take the choice of freedom.
> 
> Join Chaos Undivided.


You become a slave to chaos anyway, and you end up doing(and having done to you) far worse things than you would for the imperium.

Chaos may present the _illusion_ of freedom, but that illusion comes at a great cost, in this life or the next


----------



## Imperious

Cruor99 said:


> Chaos is a lot of things. Hope. Anger. Despair. Lust.
> 
> All those things, that are normal human behaviour.
> 
> The foul Imperium represents oppression. Slavery to a corrupt system, fighting a losing battle against the tides of True Humanity, with True Gods at their side.
> 
> Chaos represents hope for the average joe which, let's all be honest here (looking at you wanting to become a Space Marine), we would all be. It takes a lot to be chosen for something more than a simple conscript, at best.
> 
> Chaos represents the chance for Glory Eternal. A chance for the light of Gods to shine upon you, and for you to gain reverence with your peers!
> 
> The option is to remain a pityful grey ant in a collapsing anthill. You are merely there for the sake of being there, in servitude of your peers who would think themselves your better.
> 
> Take the choice of freedom.
> 
> Join Chaos Undivided.


Trooper, I hope you're ready to face the music. Have your primer and lasgun ready for inspection. I'm reporting you to the regiment's commissar. You will more than like be executed for heresy. May the Emperor have mercy on your soul. 

Just kidding. 

But seriously.


----------



## hailene

For the pro-Chaos people, what do you think your honest chances of winning the favor of a Chaos God actually is? You're (likely) a non-combatant. You probably don't have too many useful skills for a Chaos army.


----------



## Uilleam

One of Khorne's greatest Daemon Princes, Doombreed, was just an ordinary man. And he's even more powerful than the Daemon Primarchs. So even as a mortal follower I'd join Khorne. As an Astares? Oh hell yeah I'd be a Berzerker! Khorne's not down with all the tentacles and useless extra bits. 

Really, I don't see it as much of a choice. Serve the Corpse God and become a morsel for all the Xenos and Chaos or join Chaos and see if your luck/favor holds. One is a certain death sentence and the other at least offers a slim chance of immortality. The Imperium is doomed. Better to side with the winning side. Who's gonna protect you when the Golden Throne finally gives? No one. That's who. :victory:


----------



## D-A-C

hailene said:


> For the pro-Chaos people, what do you think your honest chances of winning the favor of a Chaos God actually is? You're (likely) a non-combatant. You probably don't have too many useful skills for a Chaos army.


I think that your chances of gaining favour and recognition from the Chaos Gods are always high if you are simply able to distinguish yourself as a talented individual. 

This is particularly true of my patron God Slaanesh, I always imagine someone like Hitler (oh no now I've done it!) who is able to move the masses of a planet by speeches and sheer force of will would gain as much favour as a Chaos Marine. Not to mention Slaanesh takes an interest in artists, poets musicians etc. 

I would personally join Slaanesh for two distinct reasons :

(A) If I was an Astartes I would be for all intensive purposes immortal in terms of death by old age, therefore if I was to face the prospect of eternity (I realsie BTW I could be killed way before then) I prefer the idea of devoting my entire existence to the roaming of the galaxy in the pursuit of pleasure. Also who the hell wants to worship a corpse?

(B) As a human, what is better than to be seductive (not as in, hey I can get laid!) but that you can bend people to your will and make your will and desire their will and desire. Also I naturally enjoy, fine art, music, and am a bit of a snob, and enjoy characters such as Vega and Lucius the Eternal who are sinister pretty boys with a flamboyant sense of style and aesthetic.

Finally I think both the Chaos Gods Tzeentch and Slaanesh are the most interesting philosophically as they correspond an awful lot to the Marxist theories which I study and interpret ..... now before I get accused of being a pompous prat (hey I'm Slaaneshi right?) let me explain:

Tzeentch - The actually thinking and fluff surrounding the Lord of Change shares alot in common with many interpretations of Capitalism that see it as a system that constantly has to revolutionize and change society in an increasingly desperate need to create excess profits, but that this need for contant change is ultimately pointless and simply creates a system that seeks profit for profit sake (i.e. change for changes sake). Also people under Capitalism are supposedly merely puppets whose will, consiousness and actions are already pre-given due to the existence into which they are born. Therefore all this is very Tzeentchian IMO.

Slaanesh - Meanwhile is interesting as he comes into play (as happened with the Eldar) in a truly socialist society. Labour is central to human existence, whether working in the fields, or merely working on a math problem (like the Greeks) therefore if we reached a level of developement where machines performed all difficult manual labour, what the hell would everyone do with their time? I beleive like the Eldar, we would pursue the finer things, but eventually would become bored by idleness and perhaps start down that slippery sloap of seeking new and exciting sensations and experiences.

Anyway, I hope some people find these ideas interesting and not out of place in this board. If they sound high and mighty, sorry! They are just a few random thoughts of my own I wanted to share.


----------



## hailene

Chances are high if you prove to be a talented individual? The only successful non-Space Marine Chaos worshipers I can think of either were generals, psykers, or people with a deep understanding of Machines (usually a former Mech adept).

DAC, you may be a snob, but I assume you're a functioning individual. You don't seem to be the guy who's looking for the next thrill--whether that be drugs, sex, or danger.

Try to give me a number of "successful" human Chaos worshipers as a ratio against non-successful ones. The ones used as slaves, sacrificed in rituals, or just killed for the sheer fun of it.


----------



## gen.ahab

Uilleam said:


> One of Khorne's greatest Daemon Princes, Doombreed, was just an ordinary man.


 :rofl:

My ass. He was an ancient warlord. Warlords were great leaders of men and tough as fucking nails fighters. Lets put your average person up against one of those bastards and see how much shit can be kicked out of him in 20 seconds. My guess is a fuckton.


----------



## D-A-C

hailene said:


> Chances are high if you prove to be a talented individual? The only successful non-Space Marine Chaos worshipers I can think of either were generals, psykers, or people with a deep understanding of Machines (usually a former Mech adept).
> 
> DAC, you may be a snob, but I assume you're a functioning individual. You don't seem to be the guy who's looking for the next thrill--whether that be drugs, sex, or danger.
> 
> Try to give me a number of "successful" human Chaos worshipers as a ratio against non-successful ones. The ones used as slaves, sacrificed in rituals, or just killed for the sheer fun of it.


Well what you have to remember is two things in particular.

Firstly only those who are emancipated from the day to day grind of things get to pursue their true hearts desires (assuming our desires aren't simply pre-established by our social condition of existence). A brief example is a rich person, they have fast cars, often sail or indulge in somewhat extreme physical activities, climbing Everest or crossing the seas by themselves. This is because when you don't have to do anything, when you are financial free to do as you please, you have to fill the gap, the void thats inside you as a human. Thats why lottery winners always seem to f*ck up when they get money, they simply don't know what to do with themselves so they go overboard and burn out.

Secondly your forgetting that talent comes in all walks of life. As I said Slannesh would favour a Picaso or Michelangelo, a unique actor or actress, or simply a beautiful person who catches the God's eye. Don't forget the 40k Chaos Gods are similar to Greek Dieties in that they are actively involved in human affairs (even if its secondary to the great game in the warp). Therefore Slaanesh may grant a person visions or come calling for the fun of it. 

I think this answers your question; I believe that most Chaos worshippers would simply be slaves, fodder and more souls to consume for the ever hungry beings of the Warp, but like I said if you can distinguish yourself or are talented to begin with you would enjoy a higher status, recieve gifts and be granted a small measure of the Gods power, but you can still fall to spawndom at any moment. Only one in tens of billions would ever be able to surpass all the obstacles and pitfalls of chaos worship in order to ascend to Daemonhood. But then again I firmly believe that being the lowest Chaos worshipper is better than being the highest custodian of 'Imperial Truth' because I believe that in the context of 40k, as the quote says 'the reevelation of encountering chaos is as freeing for the machine as it is for the mortal mind'. 

Finally, as a side note, there is so much more to Slaanesh than sex, drugs and rock and roll, I think you know that, but others who read these boards might not. The way I imagine it is kind of like Hellraiser (typical!). I would never undertake anything that causes pain as I hate it, as do most people, however if I became so de-sensitized to pleasure from constantly indulging in it, to the point that I felt nothing anymore, wouldn't I then begin to want to experience pain just to feel something? 

Slaanesh always gets you in the end. You may start off with noble intent, "Oh Slaanesh grant me a measure of your power so I can seduce my true love", but by the end of your journey, you've eaten your would be lovers heart, gauged out the eyes of those who even looked at her, skinned alive all rival suitors as she was made to watch and probably alot worse. But all of that is better than devoting your life to the worship of a corpse IMO. 

"If you are going to die, have the good grace to at least go out with a bit of style, a bit of panache ...... simply put ..... do so with an impeccable sense of the dramatic"


----------



## hailene

Well, if you think you have what it is to be one out of fifty billion, go for it.

I don't think you understand the permanent damnation that can happen when you sell yourself to Chaos.

As an Imperial citizen the worst thing the Imperium can do is probably mind wipe you or force you through a life of brutal, poverty-ridden survival. Suffering in the physical sense is nothing compared (both in length and intensities) to being a daemon's plaything.


----------



## SnoopyChicken

D-A-C said:


> Slaanesh always gets you in the end. You may start off with noble intent, "Oh Slaanesh grant me a measure of your power so I can seduce my true love", but by the end of your journey, you've eaten your would be lovers heart, gauged out the eyes of those who even looked at her, skinned alive all rival suitors as she was made to watch and probably alot worse. But all of that is better than devoting your life to the worship of a corpse IMO.


Really?! I wouldnt want to travel down that path, even if it did mean worshipping a corpse


----------



## atatjacob1

LOL, i'd go chaos. but as a spy for chaos, recieving gifts but retaining my human form before ascending into the ranks of a DP.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

hailene said:


> Try to give me a number of "successful" human Chaos worshipers as a ratio against non-successful ones. The ones used as slaves, sacrificed in rituals, or just killed for the sheer fun of it.


Yeah, and then cross-reference that with the number of Imperials who live out their lives of slavery just to be consumed by the warp anyway...

I'd rather have a chance (regardless of how small) of success with chaos, than an utterly pointless and unrewarding life as an Imperial. Although daemonhood would obviously be the ultimate reward, there are other gifts worth the sacrifice, and we know that the Chaos Gods are very generous with their gifts...



hailene said:


> Well, if you think you have what it is to be one out of fifty billion, go for it.
> 
> I don't think you understand the permanent damnation that can happen when you sell yourself to Chaos.
> 
> As an Imperial citizen the worst thing the Imperium can do is probably mind wipe you or force you through a life of brutal, poverty-ridden survival. Suffering in the physical sense is nothing compared (both in length and intensities) to being a daemon's plaything.


You think that if you remain loyal and live out that life of misery and pain that is destined for you within the Imperium, that you would be protected by the Emperor upon death? 

Your soul and life essence will be dragged kicking and screaming into the warp (and likely consumed by daemons) regardless of who or what you did in your mortal life. Loyalty in life does not mean reward in death (even a reward as basic as peace).


----------



## gen.ahab

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Your soul and life essence will be dragged kicking and screaming into the warp (and likely consumed by daemons) regardless of who or what you did in your mortal life. Loyalty in life does not mean reward in death (even a reward as basic as peace).


Some theories say that all, loyal, human souls go to the emperor who is growing more powerful with each, loyal, human death. So, depending upon what you think, the souls could go to the emperor.


----------



## Angel of Blood

LukeValantine said:


> Seriously though Angel of Blood we get it you don't like chaos, you probably don't even like the general idea behind the army, but not everyone is a imperial fan boy, and if you look at the imperial fiction they have on a number of occasions done things that would make even Khorne blush (Inquisition). In closing its bloody warhammer 40000 everyone is almost as insanely evil as everyone else, there just all different flavors of evil. Hell the imperial cult is just a giant metaphor for the Roman Catholic church during the dark ages, and we all know what nice guys they were and what evil monsters the pagans were (Sarcasm).


Wrong, i like chaos alot, the story behind it, the gods, the armies, deamons etc etc, chaos is an amazing bit of narrative and armies as far as the tabletop goes. All im saying is people can say "yeah go chaos" all they want. But not a single person can truely believe that, and like i said if you really do believe you want to be a raping, pillaging, innocent killing, mutated man/woman, then time to see a shrink ^^


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

gen.ahab said:


> Some theories say that all, loyal, human souls go to the emperor who is growing more powerful with each, loyal, human death. So, depending upon what you think, the souls could go to the emperor.


Much more likely to be mere Imperial propaganda in my opinion (one of the only ways to keep a loyal citizenry enslaved to a life of drudgery; by promising them a reward). Off the top of my head (not having any additional source material with me presently) _The First Heretic_, _Codex: Chaos Daemons_, and _Codex: Chaos Space Marines_ all make reference to souls being released into the warp upon the death of the individual.

The souls of chaos worshippers are consumed by the gestalt consciousness of their patron, enhancing their power. Compared to the souls of non-chaos worshippers which are referenced to ultimately just 'fizzle out' (page eight of the Chaos Astartes codex if memory serves). 

Even if the Emperor somehow did protect human souls within the warp (which he would obviously only do if it somehow empowered/sustained his own essence, he certainly wouldn't do it just to protect individual humans from the ravages of chaos), then its not automatically better than the alternatives. A soul dedicated to and used for sustenance by a bloodthirsty, deluded tyrant is not necessarily better than it being added to the gestalt consciousness of the warp gods, perhaps even becoming part of that god itself.


----------



## gen.ahab

One mans savior is another mans satan. Visa-versa.


----------



## unxpekted22

leaving my black templar bias aside and overly zealous faith in the emperor, yeah I'd go running to the Tau in an instant....might be the only semi-sane creatures in this damn made up universe. But sticking to the OP, yeah I remain loyal. Too many kids want to express their rebellious emo sides by wishing to be the 'bad guy' haha. just kidding, but not really.


----------



## Serpion5

If the choice was mine to make, then Chaos would have my soul easily. 

Probably Khorne. Primeordial anger and violent release would suit me just fine, especially after the life I am leading now. 

I`m just far too nice for my own good. :grin:


----------



## LukeValantine

Yah you got to admire those tau all what happens when they die is they completely stop existing. In all honesty if tau was a plausible alternative in 40k I think realistically most would chose them over chaos or the imperial creed. However even then death would cause you to face the same end as any other human soul in 40k. Now if I had the option to actually be a tau I have to say it would be somewhat more alluring then being human in 40k.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

No unless I was like something who could never die like Lucius, anyone else tends to get owned by the "good guys" or punished by the gods.


----------



## World Eater XII

I think all you guys should be quite happy to know , i would gladly sell all your souls for a cold beer and a kick ass chainsword arm mutation.


----------



## SnoopyChicken

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> You think that if you remain loyal and live out that life of misery and pain that is destined for you within the Imperium, that you would be protected by the Emperor upon death?
> 
> Your soul and life essence will be dragged kicking and screaming into the warp (and likely consumed by daemons) regardless of who or what you did in your mortal life. Loyalty in life does not mean reward in death (even a reward as basic as peace).


 Im under the impression that you essentially dissolve into the immaterium? A fate infinitely more preferable than being the eternal plaything of chaos (because lets face it you-we are nothing special. In the 40k universe, youre likely to just be some meat shield, ripped apart on the front lines of a random daemon planet.
Im far more likely to become a planetary governer, Inquisitor, Space Marine or anything else with any semblance of importance/control than you are daemon prince)


----------



## RudeAwakening79

I, for one, would certainly be running down the streets whilst screaming;

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!! SKULLS FOR THE SKULLTHRONE!!

In fact, that's what I plan to do this afternoon when I get home from work....it's so liberating :victory:


----------



## Angel of Blood

Kill Team shall be dispatched to Den Helder, Netherlands within the hour


----------



## Gluttoniser

Not fond of either choices. Chaos but only as a CSM. Otherwise death.


----------



## ckcrawford

Angel of Blood said:


> But not a single person can truely believe that, and like i said if you really do believe you want to be a raping, pillaging, innocent killing, mutated man/woman, then time to see a shrink ^^


I suggest you read the CSM Codex, Chaos Daemons Codex. A person doesn't merely join chaos by doing all those actions. It starts off with the most innocent of wants, needs, and/or offers by the ruinous powers.


----------



## D-A-C

I think people really need to get it drilled into their heads that 

Slaanesh doesn't = Porn

Khorne doesn't = Charging screaming at a tank

Tzeentch doesn't = pure mutation, change or deliberate plotting

Nurgle doesn't = Only disease and death

For all four Gods you never start at the extreme end of those paths, i.e. Plague marines, Noise marines, Berzerkers, or spawn

Slaanesh = Charisma, enjoyment of Aesthetics, seduction, the forbidden

Khorne = Martial pride taken to the extreme, you want to win, conquer, defeat your foes, then suddenly you find you want to kill just for th sake of killing, to collect the skulls of worthy opponents

Tzeentch = Maybe you are a thinker trying to change peoples minds, maybe you simply want to change your society for the better, but eventually you keep changing over and over until your so far from where you started you need to try and change things to get back. Also considering how small a person is in the grand scheme of things its easy to think your fate is already sealed and your simply a puppet

Nurgle = is about a fear of death, is about despair and nihilism. What does it matter if you achieve great things if we all have to die anyway? Why bother building things when they will fall to decay? Why bother with life its meaningless anyway? etc etc

There are constant overlaps between Gods, they aren't seperate identities thats why they conflict with each other so much, in certain situations you can be two things, you love the thrill of battle and the spilling of blood, Khorne might be the right fit, then again Slaanesh might have something to say about that.


----------



## gothik

personally i'd be the chaos fight annoncer, when khorne/world eaters v slannesh/emperors children i will be the one who yells leettsss get ready tooo ruuummmbblleeee guarenteed front row seats in that fight


----------



## Count_the_Seven

Ye gotta die of something... I'd give ol' Father Nurgle a try.

:victory:

CtS


----------



## Abomination

If I was human I would probably join Chaos. They seem like the best of a bad situation. Also I presume, that going by the OP, being a Space Wolf is out which would leave Chaos as pretty much the only option. A chance at Immortality through Daemon Princehood sounds like it would be more fun than toiling in a factory or being made to fight Orks with a flashlight for a gun.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Naaah, i would take Imperial Guard over chaos, probably the squaddie in me talking, like i said, if i can join the Tanith, then better so. Catachans would be good too, though granted the chances of dying before your 10th brithday on lovely old Catachan are pretty high, still, be one hard mother fucker after


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I'd rather work for Tau than be in the Imperium, Imperium is to messed up. At least with Tau the only thing you have to worry about is them making you sterile.


----------



## Imperious

Words_of_Truth said:


> I'd rather work for Tau than be in the Imperium, Imperium is to messed up. At least with Tau the only thing you have to worry about is them making you sterile.


Woot! Hoot! Free vasectomies and pulse rifles for all!


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Words_of_Truth said:


> At least with Tau the only thing you have to worry about is them making you sterile.


And being ROFLstomped by the stronger races.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Cruor99 said:


> Chaos is a lot of things. Hope. Anger. Despair. Lust.
> 
> All those things, that are normal human behaviour.
> 
> The foul Imperium represents oppression. Slavery to a corrupt system, fighting a losing battle against the tides of True Humanity, with True Gods at their side.
> 
> Chaos represents hope for the average joe which, let's all be honest here (looking at you wanting to become a Space Marine), we would all be. It takes a lot to be chosen for something more than a simple conscript, at best.
> 
> Chaos represents the chance for Glory Eternal. A chance for the light of Gods to shine upon you, and for you to gain reverence with your peers!
> 
> The option is to remain a pityful grey ant in a collapsing anthill. You are merely there for the sake of being there, in servitude of your peers who would think themselves your better.
> 
> Take the choice of freedom.
> 
> Join Chaos Undivided.


But the Chaos Gods are selfish; wouldn't you just be used as a puppet? Thats how I see it.


----------



## SGMAlice

As i am, i'd join the Adepta Sororitas.
If i was Male then a Librarian or a TechMarine.

SGMAlice


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Davidicus 40k said:


> And being ROFLstomped by the stronger races.


Tau do well, they stopped a whole force of space marines from invading. I think I'd live a better life as a Tau subject than I would as a Imperial Guardsmen.


----------



## ckcrawford

Androxine Vortex said:


> But the Chaos Gods are selfish; wouldn't you just be used as a puppet? Thats how I see it.


Yes, but in many ways your also a puppet of the "Imperium." It just seems like there's a lot of corruption in the Imperium and bullshit to deal with. Not only are you insignificant but should you somehow be disliked by someone with more authority than you, you'd probably be considered a heretic and killed. The "noble" like families are the only ones enjoying the tastes of the accomplishments of the Imperium. Like that one instance in the second Word Bearers book those rich noblemen bought their escape and left everyone else to go die including the wives and families they didn't like. 

So maybe if I was born in a more favored and noble family would I enjoy being a man of the Imperium. Other than that though, I must say the only noble depiction I would have virtually and mentally is that two headed eagle on my uniform and my lasgun. Other than that, you would need hope that the Imperium is that beautiful and great propaganda vision that your betters always try to display. When really its far from that.

One of the books I read again most recently is _Storm of Iron_, and I really liked that depiction of why Honsou's thought that Chaos was really mankind's salvation. 



> Where else but in Chaos could humanity find the strength to resist the implacable advance of the tyranids, the barbarity of the orks or the nascent peril of the ancient star-gods that were even now awakening from their aeons-long slumbers?... The soldiers of the corpse-god only speeded the ruination of that which they purported to defend by resisting Chaos.


_Storm of Iron_-Page 94


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Words_of_Truth said:


> Tau do well, they stopped a whole force of space marines from invading.


Thats because they can snipe into space with unlimited range. Trust me, I know. I quit playing Tyraninds because my friend cameron would always win with his Tau army:laugh:

Tyranids vs tau is like Fire vs water


----------



## unxpekted22

D-A-C said:


> I think people really need to get it drilled into their heads that
> 
> Slaanesh doesn't = Porn
> 
> Khorne doesn't = Charging screaming at a tank
> 
> Tzeentch doesn't = pure mutation, change or deliberate plotting
> 
> Nurgle doesn't = Only disease and death
> 
> For all four Gods you never start at the extreme end of those paths, i.e. Plague marines, Noise marines, Berzerkers, or spawn
> 
> Slaanesh = Charisma, enjoyment of Aesthetics, seduction, the forbidden
> 
> Khorne = Martial pride taken to the extreme, you want to win, conquer, defeat your foes, then suddenly you find you want to kill just for th sake of killing, to collect the skulls of worthy opponents
> 
> Tzeentch = Maybe you are a thinker trying to change peoples minds, maybe you simply want to change your society for the better, but eventually you keep changing over and over until your so far from where you started you need to try and change things to get back. Also considering how small a person is in the grand scheme of things its easy to think your fate is already sealed and your simply a puppet
> 
> Nurgle = is about a fear of death, is about despair and nihilism. What does it matter if you achieve great things if we all have to die anyway? Why bother building things when they will fall to decay? Why bother with life its meaningless anyway? etc etc
> 
> There are constant overlaps between Gods, they aren't seperate identities thats why they conflict with each other so much, in certain situations you can be two things, you love the thrill of battle and the spilling of blood, Khorne might be the right fit, then again Slaanesh might have something to say about that.


+rep. They certainly have been over-simplified into their stereotypes havn't they?


----------



## Uilleam

gen.ahab said:


> :rofl:
> 
> My ass. He was an ancient warlord. Warlords were great leaders of men and tough as fucking nails fighters. Lets put your average person up against one of those bastards and see how much shit can be kicked out of him in 20 seconds. My guess is a fuckton.


Well he definitly wasn't a Space Marine or genetically engineered. So he was a regular human. He was prolly very talented with a sharp peice of metal/wood/stone but that's as far as it goes. There are lots of scary humans out their that could please Khorne. And let's be honest, if we lived in the 40K setting there would be very few people that weren't hard as nails. Not like there's Starbucks and the internet to keep people occupied. Plus the neverending threat of invasion/imprisonment/torture to keep you wild and wooly. :grin:


----------



## hailene

Doombreed ravaged entire nations. He committed wanton acts of murder and genocide. Not only was he probably a mean customer, but through his influence a lot of people were also slaughtered.

I'd put this sort of slaughter above mass Exterminatus due to the intimacy of the slaughter.

CotE--This isn't even an Imperial versus Chaos issue. It's a Chaos or Not-Chaos problem.

If you think the tiny (and I mean absolutely minuscule) chance of achieving any sort of reward is worth it, then so be it. It also carries the significant chance of having your soul become the plaything of a daemon or other warp entity.

Whether or not the Emperor saves souls or not, I believe it better to fade into nothing than risk an eternity of suffering.


----------



## PapaSmurf124

Fck t3h emprah. I'd turn chaos, and most likely follow either Khorne or Tzeentch. If I was a marine that it. It's so simple to be a Khorne Marine. Just go kill something lol/ Tzeentch and psychic powers would be pretty sweet, although I agree its so easy to get screwed in the end


----------



## Tyrannus

To me, Chaos and the Imperium are the same, yet totally different. They are both as brutal, both have disregard for human life, and both sound appealing until you dig deeper and realise the truth. The only difference is One is Order while the other (Surprise) is Disorder

But for me (and I am not gonna lie, this is a biased view ) I would join Chaos, because to me, Chaos is us and we are Chaos. It just seems like Chaos is a natural progression for humanity, it is the step up we refuse to take. And once we take that step up, we will be renewed with a higher purpose; and with that purpose comes power, and more importantly (For me) Freedom.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

hailene said:


> CotE--This isn't even an Imperial versus Chaos issue. It's a Chaos or Not-Chaos problem.


Which in many ways is the same thing...



hailene said:


> If you think the tiny (and I mean absolutely minuscule) chance of achieving any sort of reward is worth it, then so be it. It also carries the significant chance of having your soul become the plaything of a daemon or other warp entity.


I'm well aware that the chance of gaining immortality is minuscule, I never said otherwise. The souls of Chaos worshippers are known to be absorbed directly into the essence of your particular patron, arguably becoming part of that god, this does not necessarily automatically entail becoming the plaything of a daemon. In fact I would suggest that moreso the souls of non-Chaos worshipppers actually suffer the most/become the playthings of Chaos. The souls of cowards who die in battle for example go straight to the Fortress of Khorne to suffer for eternity...

The warp is so riled and dominated by Chaos (to the extent now that they are indivisibly the same thing) that there is little chance that your soul will merely fizzle out upon death, it would seem that something bad is more than likely going to happen. To me, making certain allegiences in life and having a chance of gaining true immortality - and if not being absorbed into the greater consciousness of a warp god upon death sounds like an acceptable fate given the circumstances.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Point is, are all of you guys saying you would join chaos perfectly happy with the thought of slaughtering innocents, and commiting all sorts of henious acts. I mean seriously lol really?


----------



## Tyrannus

Angel of Blood said:


> Point is, are all of you guys saying you would join chaos perfectly happy with the thought of slaughtering innocents, and commiting all sorts of henious acts. I mean seriously lol really?


And what is innocence? If I am not mistaken, even the Imperium has a tough time caring about "Innocent" people:

"There is no such thing as innocence; just varying degrees of guilt."

I am gonna give you an example:
80% of a planet's population has turned away from the Emperors light. What does the Imperium do? Most likely do an exterminatus or have a VERY bloody take over of the planet. But what about the 20%? The people who still follow the Emperor? They are most likely going to burn with the heretics, because they have been exposed to "scum" and "heathens" and in general, mean nothig to the Imperium. They will die for the purpose of keeping order, to keep the yoke of oppression on humanity.

Now you take that generalising view with chaos:
A Hive city, most likely 80% of the population in one are most likely depraved scum. 20% are probably decent enough people; but they too will burn with the depraved scum, for they mean nothing to the Gods, just mere fodder like the rest, and they will die for a higher purpose than shackling humanity to a corrupt and oppressive establishment, to move humanity forward.

To me, this choice is not about who is evil and good. Both choices to me are equally evil. But the choice, is about security or freedom; about staying still or stepping forward.

I don't know about you, but I am human. I need to step forward. I need freedom.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Chaos is not freedom, it is an illusion of freedom. And the point still stands, whatever you say about the Imperiums hardline decisions, they still do it to a degree for a greater good. To utterly prevent the strain of heresy, even then that's only for the higher echolons, but i see your point.

But with Choas, you can come across an Imperium world that is for all intents an purposes a peacefull and innocent world. Tanith for example, you will burn it to the ground and destroy it simply because it is there. You will rape, pillage, murder, torture and spread death to any and all citizens indiscriminatly without predjudice. You will willingly commit these acts, ritually scar your body in many cases, become a depraved form of humanity. Your not moving forward at all, your taking a diversion to a different route, one that is just as corrupt as the Imperium only with no limits on how cruel you can be. At the end of the day though you are not free, not in any sense of the word, you are enslaved to the Dark Gods, they will cast you away at any given moment they feel like. You are just as enslaved as the soldier of the Imperium, difference is you are now cruel, malicous, a murderer and a pawn to the dark gods.

I'm under no illusion of how cruel and corrupt the Imperium is, but Chaos is on a different level completely as far as im concerned, a whole different sport


----------



## Angel of Blood

But even so, tell me that you would genuinely, rather become a servant of chaos, willing to murder, torture, rape or a whole manner of things indiscriminatly, women, children, babies, whole worlds. Than become a soldier in the Imperium, where yes you are opressed, part of something much bigger than you, used by those above you perhaps and thrown into the meatgrinder, but you still aren't going to go around murdering and killing any sign of life you encounter.

Answer this without any roleplaying the role of someone who likes chaos out, or joking or what have you. 100% which you would genuinely prefer to be. For all the flaws of the imperium i truely believe anyone who can rationalise themselves to join Chaos willingly to be in serious need of help


----------



## World Eater XII

Bah i joined chaos when i joined the British army as an rifleman!

We shall rape and pillage as that is what we are paid to do!


----------



## Vaz

Tyrannus said:


> I don't know about you, but I am human. I need to step forward. I need freedom.


I love it when people say this shit. Makes my day. No, really. It does. Have you considered being a comedian?


----------



## Angel of Blood

Vaz said:


> I love it when people say this shit. Makes my day. No, really. It does. Have you considered being a comedian?


^^ agreed on so many levels


----------



## Tyrannus

Angel of Blood said:


> Answer this without any roleplaying the role of someone who likes chaos out, or joking or what have you. 100% which you would genuinely prefer to be. For all the flaws of the imperium i truely believe anyone who can rationalise themselves to join Chaos willingly to be in serious need of help


And why do you have to be so derisive of someone elses opinion? Yeah i may have messed about with my other posts but, as the OP stated If I was in the 40k universe would I join Chaos? Yes. Just because I rationalise Chaos doesn't mean I need help. As I stated previously, my opinion is that Chaos and the Imperium are the same, both capable of heinous acts. You tell me about Tanith, but I can rebuke you with a peaceful xenos race who just happens not to be human or not humanoid enough to warrant mercy. What do you think the Imperium would do? Most likely genocide. But what if they were sort of humanoid? Enslave them. Just because it doesn't happen to humans doesn't make the acts any less wrong. What about mutants? they never asked or wanted to be different, but they were born that way. What does the Imperium do? Make them social exiles, cast them to the pits of a hive city, If they don't stay out of sight they "purify" them. I can say you need help if you think the Imperium is the best option; for to me you are rationilizing oppressive and totalitarian doctrines that would make Hitler and Stalin blush.


----------



## Tyrannus

Vaz said:


> I love it when people say this shit. Makes my day. No, really. It does. Have you considered being a comedian?


Well apologies for having imagination and messing about. 

And actually, the way I spout out shit, I thought I should've studied to be a politician.


----------



## TheBellower

I only say:
"Blood For The Blood God!!!"
Following Emprah's light u will only find quick death in that hostile galaxy even as a Marine 'cause any sacrifice is worthy of the Imperium...
But as a Heretic u have even a little chance to become immortal -> :yahoo:
unless Nids or Necrons consume the race of men (then u are in deep shit anyway)


----------



## Angel of Blood

EDIT: Infact sorry i can't continue this arguement without breaking forum rules.


----------



## Tyrannus

Angel of Blood said:


> Derisive your opinion? because its fucking insane, your openinly admiting your fine with murdering, torturing, raping, pillaging and all other sorts of henious acts. And killing another race is a completely different thing to killing another species, entirely


I never admitted I was fine with murdering and all that, all I am saying is don't be such an ass when someone gives an opinion. The OP asked a question and just because my answer is different from your answer, I am insane?. Well if you look at the WH40K universe, you are gonna have a hard time finding something that is sane. Oh, and you are fine with kiiling another species off then? Just because they are different and aren't human? I could call you the insane one for justifying what the Imperium does.


----------



## Tyrannus

Angel of Blood said:


> EDIT: Infact sorry i can't continue this arguement without breaking forum rules.


Well don't then. I never asked for your opinion in the first place, I only voiced my own.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Sorry but i consider anyone who is fine with mudering, raping etc in depserate need of help, and by genuniely saying you would join choas, you've got to be fine with all those things. Im fairly certain a vast percentage of the population would agree with me on that one


----------



## Tyrannus

Yeah, In this day and age, go back 300 or more years and you would have a different response, and you can have a different response thousands of years from now. Things change, and unlike you; I take into account social changes in the 41st Millenium and let them influence my decision.


----------



## locustgate

Angel of Blood said:


> Sorry but i consider anyone who is fine with mudering, raping etc in depserate need of help, and by genuniely saying you would join choas, you've got to be fine with all those things. Im fairly certain a vast percentage of the population would agree with me on that one


Er....you do realise this is a hypothetical situation in a game, set in a corrupt empire where Joe and Sue get killed, raped, sold into slavery, etc. every secound on the 'safe' worlds?


----------



## Tyrannus

locustgate said:


> Er....you do realise this is a hypothetical situation in a game, set in a corrupt empire where Joe and Sue get killed, raped, sold into slavery, etc. every secound on the 'safe' worlds?


Thank you! :biggrin:

Somebody actually knows what I am talking about. :laugh:


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Angel of Blood said:


> Sorry but i consider anyone who is fine with mudering, raping etc in depserate need of help, and by genuniely saying you would join choas, you've got to be fine with all those things. Im fairly certain a vast percentage of the population would agree with me on that one


_Angel_ you really are taking this too far...

As for the debate, you have to consider the question. It's based on the premise that we are part of the 40k galaxy - where murder, rape and pillage are commonplace. The whole system of morality is different to how we socially feel today.

You really have to attempt to get into this mindset, being a citizen of the Imperium is a terrible fate, worthlessness and drudgery on a scale which we can barely imagine. Constantly facing the threat of extinction and death. For the vast majority of the population, there is but one way to escape this degrading and meaningless life; Chaos. It offers avenues to power and influence, freedom and change, pleasure and delight *seemingly* without a price. To draw the attention of such patrons you must preform acts which please and empower them, acts which *initially* do not conflict with human morals. But ultimately, you are drawn further down the path of what Imperials would call 'corruption' where your perceptions of morality are drastically changed, and you therefore act in very different ways and under very different perceptions. It's not as basic and simple as saying "Oh, you would join Chaos, therefore you would love to murder and rape people." 

But there are also ideological reasons for one may join Chaos. It can be seen as the next 'evolutionary' stage. Mankind is evolving towards it's true psychic potential, an extremely dangerous time given the nature of where this psychic potential comes from. The Emperor has failed to satisfactorily guide and protect mankind as it achieves it's potential and in him, the only chance of an alternative to Chaos has failed.

But also there is the question of whether extinction or the embracing of Chaos is the better option for mankind as a species? Let's be brutally honest here, the Imperium is going to fall - sooner or later, it is inevitable. Through Chaos, mankind would have the power and influence to truly dominate the galaxy, and fend off the relentless hordes of Xenos.

In conclusion, if I was an average citizen of the Imperium - taking into account the vast majority know absolutley nothing about Chaos - I imagine I would join Chaos if I was in a position to learn about the initial (and *potentially* ultimate) freedom it offers. Anything would seem better than the constant struggle that is life as a basic Imperial. This is obviously why the Inquisition is so desperate to keep knowledge of Chaos secret and beyond even Imperials in positions of power - for they fear (and they are right to do so) that any spread of even the knowledge of chaos would at the very least result in widespread Chaos cults erupting, and at worst lose entire systems to rebellions. How ironic that ignorance is what is keeping the Imperium together and bound under the Emperor's rule, but also that it is preventing it's progression.


----------



## Imperious

I'd liken joining chaos to being in prison. You're either fucked or doing the fucking. The trick is to be the pitcher and not the catcher.


----------



## Pzycho Leech

Well, understand me right when I say this: 
Moving to Chaos is a bold all or nothing move, and the chances for "nothing" is alot larger than the "all". The Imperium is the "safe" choice. If you fight and die, if you live your life as a worker, die in a slip space accident, it doesn't matter. If you die with the believe in the True Emperor, it's never all bad. And there are some chances of you surviving your first three battles and then move up the ladder XD

Now Chaos, as a normal human, you have to be vile and strong to survive. Chances are you'll be killed in a ritual, providing a body for a daemon or just killed for the heck of it. And what happens to your soul after the death of your flesh... Gods give me strength, that might be the worst fate to suffer at all... BUT, if you prove a good subject to the gods, it's endless possibility and ultimate freedom and power that can never, never, never be attained in the Imperium.


This said, with my current mentallity, I'd choose Chaos. Only three things could keep me from Chaos, those are:
Born on a space marine homeplanet, the chance of being accepted into the Astartes is good stuff.
Born as a Noble. Living atop a Hive Spire, having reserved an officer spot in the navy or in the infantry, this is good enough odds to me.
Born as a rouge Trader... The Freedom AND the Emperor... Damn that's sweet.


----------



## LukeValantine

On a relevant side note some chaos followers seem to actually become daemon (Furies, plague bearers), but does this apply to all chaos followers? If so some transmutations upon death would be more... jarring then others. 

However with the exception of furies it seems all daemons have only the slimmest fragment of their previous identity, and almost never retain any of their memories (Except dp's). 

Also one could speculate that chaos followers have their souls ripped appart apon death into their respective elements just like everyone else, but since most of their soul is so similiar to a specific warp entity most of their essence remains intact, simply stripped of much of what makes them, them (Hence why most daemons are caricature of a rounded human psyche).


----------



## Angel of Blood

To far? perhaps, but point still stands, if your going to change all your ideologies, viewpoints, social standings, religion and eveyrthin else to answer the question, then your not really answering it all are you.

Point is, hypotheticaly, as you are now, with your current morales, beliefs and ideologies AND knowing full well that joining chaos would put you on the path to the above murder/pillage/general nasty, which would you join.


----------



## Tyrannus

Angel of Blood said:


> To far? perhaps, but point still stands, if your going to change all your ideologies, viewpoints, social standings, religion and eveyrthin else to answer the question, then your not really answering it all are you.
> 
> Point is, hypotheticaly, as you are now, with your current morales, beliefs and ideologies AND knowing full well that joining chaos would put you on the path to the above murder/pillage/general nasty, which would you join.


The question was:
"Though its probably not possible, imagine that you were in the 40k world and you were human. No, not other races, lets just stick with the race you know how to live with the best. Would you join the chaos powers or stick with the Imperium? And why?"
I do answer the question because you have to take all those things you mention into account in a different universe where things are viewed in a different perspective. But seeing as you have just changed the question to "If Chaos existed in our existing universe, would you join?" Then my answer would be no, because there isn't many things explained in the universe we inhabit, like what happens to us when we die? I know in WH40K my soul will go to the warp, be eaten by daemons blah blah. But happens to our souls here? Do we even have souls? And because we don't live in a sort of totalitarian dystopian hell hole, there are different alternatives to change our world than something as drastic as selling your soul to dark, malevolent gods for a slice of power.


----------



## D-A-C

The fact of the matter for me, is that, the Imperium of Man in finite, whereas Chaos by its very nature is infinite. As long as there a living and more importantly feeling beings in the material realm, the Chaos Gods will always exist.

The Imperium is fighting a losing battle. I think the best example of this can be found in the original telling of the Battle for Terra. After Horus' death all of the Chaos forces including the other Primarchs retreated. Angron, as he left, turned and looked up the wreckage of the Imperial Palace he had come so close to conquering merely shrugged his shoulders and basically thought "I have all of eternity to get my revenge". 

The Imperium is doomed, they are stagnating badly in terms of inovation and technology and they are beset on all sides by foes; Chaos Legions, Necrons, Eldar, Tau, Orks and Tyranid Hive Fleets are all knocking at the door. 

Why I beleive Chaos is the most powerful is that it is the only power that is present *within *the Imperium itself. It only takes one powerful figure to become corrupted and entire swathes of territory can quickly fall victim to Daemons. Also it will only take the corruption of a single High Lord to ignite a new civil war. That won't happen? We have eternity to wait, you don't. 

Three quotes to consider :

(1)* This is our galaxy. Ours to corrupt. Ours to enslave. The gods will not be denied their prize.*

Xerxeth, Sorcerer of the Black Legion 

(2) *Like the great storm of the Horus Heresy, the forces of the True Gods will descend upon the Emperor's minions. The stars will tremble at their passage and the mighty armadas of the Warmaster Abaddon will bring annihilation to a hundred worlds. Know this, for these things will come to pass.*

Constanze the Prophetess, burned as a Heretic 687.M38 

(3) *What the thick-headed fools with their broken corpse of an Emperor fail to understand is that not only can they never defeat us, but they can not hide or flee or shield themselves from the triumph of Chaos. They are finite and we are unbound, undivided. They must not err, or they fall to heresy. All who fall join our cause. Every Imperial fool who dares to open his eyes is a willing recruit. They strive merely to hold back our fury and might, and it consumes them. Thus you can see Chaos is inevitable. We lurk not only beyond their grasp and at their gates; we lurk within the darkness of their souls, on the tip of their tongues, in their tortured dreams. We are them, but freed from the shackles of ignorance. We are them, grown strong… evolved. We are them, but so much more!*

Diuman Cilious, Alpha Legion Sorcerer

IMO Chaos is the tool mankind must use in order to survive or even better yet to evolve. Chaos is the only true answer. The Imperium lies to all of its citizens and stifles and controls every aspect of their lives so that the High Lords can maintain their grip on power. They have created and propagated an image of the Emperor that is completely untrue so that they can mask their actions in his power.

Finally, if we are going to discuss this topic properly, stop discussing our current morales and opinions which exist outside the science fictional universe we are discussing. Would I rape, murder and kill in real life? No. However, am I a victim of a heartless and cruel beuracratic state? No. And are there four Chaos Gods who can actively participate in the daily affairs of mankind and reward me with power? No. Therefore just because these ideas may be unthinkable in real life. Doesn't make the choice to support Chaos in a fictional universe any less valid

Chaos is the only true answer.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Actually, reading through all these posts, fuck the Imperium and Chaos. The Imperium is a corrupt, tyrannical theocracy that's controlled by a bunch of pompous assholes who are more concerned with maintaining their own power than doing anything for the Imperial citizens. And chaos, well lets just say that having the miniscule chance of gaining some kind of lasting power (and even then the gods might one day get bored with you and turn you into chaos spawn) really isn't worth potentially having your soul tormented for all eternity (well, it isn't to me at least).As some have already mentioned, I'd rather give the Tau a chance. Or better yet, maybe if the Interex are still around out there I'd throw in my lot with them. They seemed to have a fairly good handle on things, not to mention way cooler tech than the Imperium has.


----------



## hailene

I'm going to have to stick with Angel of Blood. We're assuming that we just take the person who you are and toss you into the 40k universe.

So life is tough as a human. Things are unfair. The people above you are both corrupt and brutal.

Well, in certain places in the world that's the status quo.

The fact that some of you guys are willing to surrender yourselves to fickle, incomprehensible beings and commit acts of violence that would make Hitler blush for the off-chance of receiving some reward (who, for all we know, could turn you into warp spawn) is frightening.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Thats exactly what i meant, not chaos in our universe, but you, as you are now put into 40k, complete with your knowledge of how chaos will corrupt you and turn you into a monster for all intents and purposes, and quite literally if you really are that succesful and lucky.

I would still stay loyal and be in the Guard. After all as a great man once said "The Emperor protects..(and dumps on us from a great height)"


----------



## SnoopyChicken

D-A-C said:


> IMO Chaos is the tool mankind must use in order to survive or even better yet to evolve. Chaos is the only true answer. The Imperium lies to all of its citizens and stifles and controls every aspect of their lives so that the High Lords can maintain their grip on power. They have created and propagated an image of the Emperor that is completely untrue so that they can mask their actions in his power.
> 
> Chaos is the only true answer.


Ive seen this statement used a lot on this thread and I have to say I totally disagree with it.
As far as I can see chaos is a step backwards not forwards. If we all just do what we want are we any better than animals? Also I have no doubts that if chaos was to destroy the imperium it would then proceed to rip itself apart putting humanity in a far more precarious position than it is atm in the 40kverse

Yes the Imperium has its faults (and I can admit they are biggies) but at the end of the day civilised society represents the pinnacle of human evolution and whilst not completely there the imperium is as close as we'll get in 40k.

Edit: Also to say that chaos is a _tool_ mankind must use is laughable. The shoe is firmly on the other foot (or tentacle)


----------



## Tyrannus

Angel of Blood said:


> Thats exactly what i meant, not chaos in our universe, but you, as you are now put into 40k, complete with your knowledge of how chaos will corrupt you and turn you into a monster for all intents and purposes, and quite literally if you really are that succesful and lucky.
> 
> I would still stay loyal and be in the Guard. After all as a great man once said "The Emperor protects..(and dumps on us from a great height)"


Well that is also a different question which I can't answer, simply because I would most likely be dead on some street in the underworld of some hive. I can admit I am not one to survive such harsh conditions.


----------



## unxpekted22

Most of the cultists and heretics in the 40k universe rarely stand up one day and decide they are fully dedicated to chaos. Its usually a slow process of one being corrupting a few people bit by bit until they are devoted to serving a chaos god or demon and they dont even think about it. On some places and hive cities and such it takes years and years before any type of actual rebellion is ready to emerge. 

and rebellion is the other reason it would be harder to say yes to chaos than the Imperium. I imagine, humans still being humans, that most people would decide they'd rather just keep living the life they know rather than take the risk of rebelling especially in a world where heresy is punished by death and sought out pretty mercilessly.

point being I dont think the cultists and heretical humans are supposed to be viewed as people who have _chosen_ to follow chaos. They are manipulated into it.


----------



## Uilleam

I see it as more of a survival of the fittest. I wanna survive, and thrive, if I can. If that means bending the knee to the powers of Chaos then so be it ( I pretty much already do. My boss has got to work for Tzeentch). Better to strive, fight, bleed, and die by your own violation than to be forced to join the suicide mission that is the imperial guard. Or to live the lie that the Imperium is founded on. Slave labour for nothing. No personal gain. No freedom. Live and die in a hive or manufactory. And if you dare do anything resembling independence you're shot for heresy. 

The weak only live by the mercy of the strong. It's true in 40K and in our world. History is full of examples to prove the point. Is it selfish to wanna live when so many others die? Probably. But it's nature at it's finest. The will to survive.

Not every Chaos follower is a raving madman charging headlong into the enemies guns. I think GW has really oversimplified Chaos in it's latest offerings. They've turned them into religous zealots without any common sense or reasoning lately. Which is not at all like the Chaos I remember when I joined the hobby over 10 years ago.


----------



## LukeValantine

Ah the heady days before GW fit every faction into a shoe box so the unwashed masses could understand 40k better. Chaos = The bad guys. Eldar = Self centered Utilitarians (Who screw everyone over trying to serve their own ends). Ultramarine's = Good guys. ah good old simplicity....


----------



## Serpion5

@Angel of Blood: You automatically assume the worst of humanity when we say we`ll join Chaos. You do realize that free will still prevails right? Hence the choice in the first place...

I said I`d follow Khorne. Why? Because I admire martial prowess, and Khorne is the one to serve to obtain it. I have no interest in being some mindless murderer, some mad butcher. My interest is in being a warrior, someone who will fight his foes as equals on the battlefield, and most likely die in battle against a far superior foe.

In this _hypothetical_ scenario within this _fictional_ universe, _if_ the choice was mine to make, that is what it would be. 

I`m no soldier, don`t get me wrong. My interest lies more along the lines of martial artistry and combative skill.


And if I survived and eventually devolved into a frothing maniac, I imagine death would not be far off and then I would simply disappaite and be absorbed by Khorne. At which point, I would probably cease to care.

As for being okay with murder? ... I`ll keep that to myself.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Chaos brings out the worst in humanity though. You like to think by joining Khorne you will just be some uber bad ass warrior, yet noble, leaving innocents out and not wishing to carry out senseless murder. But you will, chaos corrupts, power corrupts and Khorne is going to want his share of skulls, and he wants alot. As some Khorne beserker, chances are you less likely to be beaten by a single superior foe, but cut down to ribbons eventually by a rather large horde of lasguns.

Point is that it's almost the same as the dark side in star wars, same deal. You think you can use it to better yourself, but not become a monster and for most intents and purposes evil. But along the way your going to change, become more corrupt, those lines you had before will waver or disappear entirely as will your morales. Before you know it, murdering innocents is just another tick in the box for the days work


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Angel of Blood said:


> Chaos brings out the worst in humanity though.


Good and bad are merely a matter of perspective, what would be more accurate to say is that Chaos is counterproductive to a harmonious social community. Chaos represents the human psyche unrestricted by social pressures or norms - totally free to act as it truly desires.

Some guy sleeps with your wife - your really angry and there is a burning desire (however minor) to want to murder him, her, or both. But more often than not you won't, because of social morality - we are brought up thinking murder is wrong therefore we don't do it. But with those social rules *completely* removed, you would butcher the fucker without a second thought. Your base desires realised and sated. That's what Chaos _represents_, utter freedom.


----------



## Angel of Blood

To me that is bringing out the worst in people though. Freedom to act and do anything without any consequences, nothing good can come of it


----------



## LukeValantine

Good point child-of-the emperor, like I said earlier Chaos in 40k is not the antagonist to a some holy or benevolent other half, like what is found in most organized religions. No in fact if a metaphor for the concept of Chaos in 40k exists its Sigmund Freud's Id (The wants and desires of humanity made manifest in a universe where actually benevolence/goodness is incredibly rare).


----------



## sethgabriel1990

all hail the great lord of decay! of course! go nurgle!


----------



## Aramius

I would question Child-Of-The-Emperor's point, actually. To an extent, yes, the liberation of all social mores and expectations would have an effect on any being. Chaos, however, transcends such a simple liberation, in my eyes. A good metaphor for it would be unlocking the inner self, and then having immensely powerful psionic mentalities take their favored bits of said inner self and warping them, bringing them to the forefront.

I would say that your view is more toward a pure anarchic viewpoint - society without societal mores and responsibilities. Utter liberation. Et cetera. Any lifestyle choice that just happens to have mind-bending reality-warping entities of unimaginable power, power based upon the darker aspects of sentient free will, and who will gain further more power if they were to... nudge... their followers' desires a touch...

Well, you be the judge.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Angel of Blood said:


> To me that is bringing out the worst in people though. Freedom to act and do anything without any consequences, nothing good can come of it


You think of it as the worst because you are based in and shaped by society, we all are. But just try and remove yourself from that particular shackle and think outside the box.

It is merely what is instinctual to us and what our 'Id' (as _Valantine_ pointed out) desires. It is obviously counterproductive to a harmonious society as I said before, but that doesn't necessarily mean it brings out the worst in people or that nothing good can come of it.



Aramius said:


> I would question Child-Of-The-Emperor's point, actually. To an extent, yes, the liberation of all social mores and expectations would have an effect on any being. Chaos, however, transcends such a simple liberation, in my eyes. A good metaphor for it would be unlocking the inner self, and then having immensely powerful psionic mentalities take their favored bits of said inner self and warping them, bringing them to the forefront.
> 
> I would say that your view is more toward a pure anarchic viewpoint - society without societal mores and responsibilities. Utter liberation. Et cetera. Any lifestyle choice that just happens to have mind-bending reality-warping entities of unimaginable power, power based upon the darker aspects of sentient free will, and who will gain further more power if they were to... nudge... their followers' desires a touch...
> 
> Well, you be the judge.


Indeed, but we shape Chaos just as much as it shapes us. Its a continuous circle, we sculpt it and it further enforces our base desires (Id), which further defines it... Et cetera.


----------



## Angel of Blood

I see what your saying but i still dont believe anything good can come of it. Nothing has so far in any of the fluff. Even the most civilised chaos characters are still pretty much what we would call evil. You don't see them settling down on a nice green planet, living nicely with each other, enjoying a productive lifestyle. It pretty much always comes down to, corrupt and destroy the planet, conver to kill the populace.


----------



## Serpion5

Yes, but those characters are all astartes, they were literally made to kill. It`s all they know.

What about the artist who turns to Slaanesh to improve his music or painting?

What about the gladiator who turns to Khorne so that he can win his freedom?

What about the scholar who turns to Tzeentch so that he can increase his knowledge?

What about the sick beggar who turns to Nurgle, only wanting to live more? 


Granted, there is always a price, always high. But if the alternative is an empty pointless life most likely ended by a messy death, I`ll take Chaos.


----------



## gen.ahab

Why is life of chaos worship not pointless? You are simply a pawn, an unwitting pawn, yes, but a pawn none the less. The only difference is that you are now a happy slave.


----------



## Serpion5

_Alternative_, dude. In that, I was referring to the Imperium. there is a purpose to Chaos. Immortality.


----------



## Tyrannus

gen.ahab said:


> Why is life of chaos worship not pointless? You are simply a pawn, an unwitting pawn, yes, but a pawn none the less. The only difference is that you are now a happy slave.


Well I feel it's better to be a happy slave, than a downtrodden slave of the Imperium.


----------



## gen.ahab

Serpion5 said:


> _Alternative_, dude. In that, I was referring to the Imperium. there is a purpose to Chaos. Immortality.


I know you were, but you assume there is no purpose to serving the emperor. It is the same purpose as chaos, immortality.


----------



## locustgate

As I understand if you die and are not a follower of chaos your soul gets eaten by demons.


----------



## gen.ahab

Or taken by the emperor.


----------



## Serpion5

gen.ahab said:


> I know you were, but you assume there is no purpose to serving the emperor. It is the same purpose as chaos, immortality.


Alright. But I`d say the Chaos Gods are more likely to be eternal than the Emperor.


----------



## gen.ahab

He has proven to have power in both realms and able to hold back the chaos gods. Pretty much makes him eternal.


----------



## hailene

The Chaos Space Marine codex says that the majority of mortal souls just fade into the Immaterium. 

So pretty much this is how it rolls:

Serve the Emperor: Fade into nothingness/Possibly go to his side. More likely fade into nothingness.

Not the best choice in the universe, but it's all right.

Serve Chaos: Die and have your soul tortured by daemons for all of eternity/Die and become one with your Chaos god/Reach immortality.

The first option is rather unlikely, but still a possibility. Someone needs to fuel those daemonic pacts and you're as good as anyone. Second choice is the most likely. Life will probably be short and brutal. Unless you screw up. Then life will be long and brutal, probably. Or just very short, depending on what your master decides.

The tiniest of tiny percentages will allow you to ascend into daemonhood. This is probably somewhere in the one out of billions chance of success. Probably less. Since I don't imagine if an entire Hiveworld of 50 billion people converted that 50 daemon princes would come out of it.


----------



## gen.ahab

That would be the chaos marine codex. You might as well expect an atheist to tell you gods exist. Really, codices are mostly crap.


----------



## Tyrannus

gen.ahab said:


> That would be the chaos marine codex. You might as well expect an atheist to tell you gods exist. Really, codices are mostly crap.


So where are you getting your evidence that the Emperor is gonna take your soul if you have been a good boy/girl?

Seeing as you say most codices are crap, where do you get your fluff? As I feel they are a main source of fluff. (Minus the novels, main rulebook and occasional tidbits in WD)

And you can turn your argument the other way round and try and expect someone who has been indoctrinated into a religion, believing it is the absolute truth to denounce said God of said religion.

I hope you don't find what I say offensive, because I am in no way trying to offend anyone. I am just trying to understand what are you getting at?


----------



## hailene

Disregard codices? The main source of fluff?


----------



## Uilleam

I think the biggest thing people forget about when talking about the Emperor is he forbade the worship of gods and punished those who worshipped him as such. ie The Word Bearers.

Does this strike you as a being that can/would harvest the souls of his followers after they die? Likely not. It is more likely that the belief in the god emperor is the belief in organization and thus makes it the bane of chaos. What you feel/think has power in the warp and over the creatures of the warp. 

Really, IMHO, the followers of the Imperium are so crazed they can't see the apocalypse coming their way. Once the golden throne fails there will be a warp rift in the heart of Terra. The astronomicon will be snuffed out. Any souls the Emperor might be saving, however unlikely, will be devoured by the Great Four.The loyalist legions will lose their heart to fight. Their Emperor dead. Their Primarchs abandoned them. I see the Imperium like Rome. Too big and too crippled to keep the wolves at bay. 

Chaos doesn't need the astronomicon. Their Primarchs still walk amongst them. They only lack unification because no one truely powerful enough, like Horus, has shown up yet. The Black Legion plays at it but doesn't truely command the other Legions. And yes, there are Chaos Legions still in existence if you read books like the Word Bearers Trilogy. Or think about how the Alpha Legion functions. Unlike all the loyalist chapters who are splintered/second founded, etc. With the exception of the Black Templar for their numbers are unknown.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Uilleam said:


> I think the biggest thing people forget about when talking about the Emperor is he forbade the worship of gods and punished those who worshipped him as such. ie The Word Bearers.
> 
> Does this strike you as a being that can/would harvest the souls of his followers after they die? Likely not. It is more likely that the belief in the god emperor is the belief in organization and thus makes it the bane of chaos. What you feel/think has power in the warp and over the creatures of the warp.
> 
> Really, IMHO, the followers of the Imperium are so crazed they can't see the apocalypse coming their way. Once the golden throne fails there will be a warp rift in the heart of Terra. The astronomicon will be snuffed out. Any souls the Emperor might be saving, however unlikely, will be devoured by the Great Four.The loyalist legions will lose their heart to fight. Their Emperor dead. Their Primarchs abandoned them. I see the Imperium like Rome. Too big and too crippled to keep the wolves at bay.
> 
> Chaos doesn't need the astronomicon. Their Primarchs still walk amongst them. They only lack unification because no one truely powerful enough, like Horus, has shown up yet. The Black Legion plays at it but doesn't truely command the other Legions. And yes, there are Chaos Legions still in existence if you read books like the Word Bearers Trilogy. Or think about how the Alpha Legion functions. Unlike all the loyalist chapters who are splintered/second founded, etc. With the exception of the Black Templar for their numbers are unknown.


Those are very good points. The ONLY thing keeping me from siding with Chaos is being used as a puppet. People on here say that siding with Chaos lets you be free to do whatever you want to do. To an extent, I agree.

When you side with Chaos, you are with them for good. As I've said before, teh Gods are selfish and really dont care that much about you (unless you are worth something) 

Now if you serve the Emperor/Imperium and you fail, you will just die. If you serve Chaos and you are not good enough to please your master's will, I dont even want to go there.

The point is, I don't want to fear my master.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Androxine Vortex said:


> Those are very good points. The ONLY thing keeping me from siding with Chaos is being used as a puppet. People on here say that siding with Chaos lets you be free to do whatever you want to do. To an extent, I agree.
> 
> When you side with Chaos, you are with them for good. As I've said before, teh Gods are selfish and really dont care that much about you (unless you are worth something)
> 
> Now if you serve the Emperor/Imperium and you fail, you will just die. If you serve Chaos and you are not good enough to please your master's will, I dont even want to go there.
> 
> The point is, I don't want to fear my master.


Then you wanna be a Tau or Eldar, at least their leaders have actual respect for those under their command.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Words_of_Truth said:


> Then you wanna be a Tau or Eldar, at least their leaders have actual respect for those under their command.


But I'm answering this as if I am human as I am now.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Androxine Vortex said:


> But I'm answering this as if I am human as I am now.


You can still join Tau at least  they accept humans into their ranks.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Words_of_Truth said:


> You can still join Tau at least  they accept humans into their ranks.


Really? Wow I didn't know that. Do they treat them as if one of their own or is there a slight prejudice towards them (sorry about going off topic)


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Androxine Vortex said:


> Really? Wow I didn't know that. Do they treat them as if one of their own or is there a slight prejudice towards them (sorry about going off topic)


It depends really, worlds they conquer they slowly whittle the population down by making them sterile and impotent, those who give themselves freely they find them a place to help them contribute to the greater good, like giving them carapace armour and pulse rifles


----------



## normtheunsavoury

I don't think it's as simple as 'would you join Chaos'.
No one looks at a junkie lying in a heap and thinks "Ooh, that looks cool, where do I buy heroin round here?"
The Chaos powers don't put up big advertising posters saying "Join us, get tentacles where your eyes once were and have eyeballs in your rectum!"
Falling to Chaos is a slow process, it takes a long time and I really don't think in any of the stories so far anyone has done it willingly and knowing all that comes with it. 
Take Khorne as an example, no one in their right mind wants to be a raving psychopath who doesn't even care if it's their own head being lopped off. 
Khorne appeals to the fighting spirit in all of us, the anger, martial pride, honour to a degree and even a yearning for revenge. Falling to Khorne is actually quite appealing when you look at the early stages, if you saw what would eventually happen you'd probably think again. 

The only real exception to this is Nurgle, no one wakes up and thinks "Hmm, what I'm really missing is a big weeping sore to go with my new Converse trainers"
Nurgle strikes first then offers you a way to make it stop hurting, a case of it being easier to ask forgiveness than permission. You don't really get a choice in the matter, join Nurgle or rot to death and become a zombie. 
Although even this could ultimately start quite innocently, Nurgle doesn't just represent disease and pestilence, he represents tradition too. A willingness to maintain the status quo, to uphold tradition for traditions sake could, if taken to it's extreme, lead to becoming a follower of Nurgle. You would after all be promoting stagnation. 

So, taking all this into account, would I join Chaos?
Probably, eventually, it sounds like the stupid sort of thing I'd do.


----------



## DestroyerHive

I'd rather die for the true gods than follow the Imperial heretics. I'd devote myself to Nurgle so that my soul may go to a better place...

Although I'd probably join the Tau.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

normtheunsavoury said:


> Take Khorne as an example, no one in their right mind wants to be a raving psychopath who doesn't even care if it's their own head being lopped off.


Thats actually the reason why my friend loves Khorne :laugh:


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Androxine Vortex said:


> Thats actually the reason why my friend loves Khorne :laugh:


Some one needs to sit down and have a long talk with your friend then, preferably with him under some pretty strong sedation.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

normtheunsavoury said:


> Some one needs to sit down and have a long talk with your friend then, preferably with him under some pretty strong sedation.


Well he says that he favors Khorne because of the glory of battle, but that 'glory' is just mindless rage :laugh:

That dosen't appeal to me. If I sided with Chaos, I would go with Tzeentch. I value knowledge most.

And what about Chaos Undivided? How does that work?
I understand that Lorgar has ascended to Daemonhood but how did he? Do all the Gods favor him equally because he takes no side?

I like the idea of Chaos Undivided but I never fully grasped the concept completley,


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Undivided is the difficult one, if anything I would say it is the last resort of madmen and fanatics. 
Turning to undivided Chaos sort of relies on you having some idea, however vague, of what you're getting into and still taking the chance. Again, I don't think Lorgar was told "Screw this up and we'll turn you into snot" by the big four. He was probably only given the "We can give you lots and lots of power" speech, and it worked out OK for him. 
Also I think that when someone is tempted to undivided it is more of a conscious effort on the part of the Chaos Gods to tempt you rather than you seeking them out. 
They have taken an equal interest in you or something to do with you and will join forces for their own interests. 
With Lorgar they saw the chance to hit out at the Imperium, what with the big E running round and stopping religion and all. They needed Lorgar to get to Horus (who I think was little more than a puppet and a figure head) and bring about the situation as it is now. I don't think that the Chaos Gods ever actually wanted Horus to win against the Emperor, they just wanted to set the wheels in motion.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

normtheunsavoury said:


> Undivided is the difficult one, if anything I would say it is the last resort of madmen and fanatics.
> Turning to undivided Chaos sort of relies on you having some idea, however vague, of what you're getting into and still taking the chance. Again, I don't think Lorgar was told "Screw this up and we'll turn you into snot" by the big four. He was probably only given the "We can give you lots and lots of power" speech, and it worked out OK for him.
> Also I think that when someone is tempted to undivided it is more of a conscious effort on the part of the Chaos Gods to tempt you rather than you seeking them out.
> They have taken an equal interest in you or something to do with you and will join forces for their own interests.
> With Lorgar they saw the chance to hit out at the Imperium, what with the big E running round and stopping religion and all. They needed Lorgar to get to Horus (who I think was little more than a puppet and a figure head) and bring about the situation as it is now. I don't think that the Chaos Gods ever actually wanted Horus to win against the Emperor, they just wanted to set the wheels in motion.


So to be granted power with CU it must be given from all teh Gods? This is the part that always confused me (how you obtain power from it)


----------



## Chompy Bits

Androxine Vortex said:


> Now if you serve the Emperor/Imperium and you fail, you will just die.


Or get turned into a servitor.

Other than that the imperium is probably a good bet for a quick death unless you're a psyker and they decide your ass is gonna become soulfood for the Big E. That doesn't sound like a particularly pleasant way to go. Having your soul slowly leeched from your body to satisfy the cravings of the carrion lord. No thanks. I'd rather get myself sterilised.


----------



## Tyrannus

Androxine Vortex said:


> So to be granted power with CU it must be given from all teh Gods? This is the part that always confused me (how you obtain power from it)


I just found my copy of the last CSM codex (When it was legion based) and it says there are numerous ways to worship and get powers from Chaos undivided. Sometimes you don't even have to follow any of the four to follow undivided; like the small, insignificant chaos cults dotted around the Imperium. Apparently they worship minor chaos gods which counts as CU. It's also used for temporary packs with the dark gods for increased power and some follow CU because they believe it is one entity and all the other four gods are part of said entity.

Hope this helps.


----------



## DrinCalhar

I have to stick with the Imperium. Caring about my soul, I am just not a big fan of losing it.


----------



## Tyrannus

DrinCalhar said:


> I have to stick with the Imperium. Caring about my soul, I am just not a big fan of losing it.


You do know you're still gonna lose your soul once you die?
It gets assimilated into the warp just like most other human souls.


----------



## gothik

Chompy Bits said:


> Or get turned into a servitor.
> 
> Other than that the imperium is probably a good bet for a quick death unless you're a psyker and they decide your ass is gonna become soulfood for the Big E. That doesn't sound like a particularly pleasant way to go. Having your soul slowly leeched from your body to satisfy the cravings of the carrion lord. No thanks. I'd rather get myself sterilised.


lol and slannesh would never allow that little chompy bits causing mayhem lol


----------



## TRU3 CHAOS

Tyrannus said:


> I just found my copy of the last CSM codex (When it was legion based) and it says there are numerous ways to worship and get powers from Chaos undivided. Sometimes you don't even have to follow any of the four to follow undivided; like the small, insignificant chaos cults dotted around the Imperium. Apparently they worship minor chaos gods which counts as CU. It's also used for temporary packs with the dark gods for increased power and some follow CU because they believe it is one entity and all the other four gods are part of said entity.
> 
> Hope this helps.


I've always wondered if these minor chaos are really successful at hiding from the four major gods. The only one I know that has been able at hiding is Malice. The only problem with worshiping minor dieties is that once they get consumed by bigger ones, the followers probably/may suffer a worst fate than normal.


----------



## Tyrannus

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> I've always wondered if these minor chaos are really successful at hiding from the four major gods. The only one I know that has been able at hiding is Malice. The only problem with worshiping minor dieties is that once they get consumed by bigger ones, the followers probably/may suffer a worst fate than normal.


I think it matters how large the cult gets, and obviously the larger it gets, the more likely one or all four of the Gods will notice and do something about the upstart. And I think there are loads of minor Gods, it's just they are all too weak or irrelevant for the Four to worry about.

But It kinda makes sense when a insignificant cult gets big enough, it attracts one of the four gods, eats the minor God up then twist said cult beliefs to mirror the God's own; and the god might start escalating further and send his traitor legion or warband on the planet and have a massive massacre.

Well, that's what I think


----------



## gothik

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> I've always wondered if these minor chaos are really successful at hiding from the four major gods. The only one I know that has been able at hiding is Malice. The only problem with worshiping minor dieties is that once they get consumed by bigger ones, the followers probably/may suffer a worst fate than normal.


and that does not even bear thinking about really...:shout:


----------



## Words_of_Truth

It really depends on what the minor chaos entity feeds off, look a Slaanesh he was able to fully come into fruition because none of the other gods fed off depravity and perverseness. There's probably plenty of other minor chaos entities but they are just minor aspects of one of the main gods. Kind of like the argument as to Khaine being an aspect of Khorne or vice versa.


----------



## Chompy Bits

gothik said:


> and that does not even bear thinking about really...:shout:


The souls of those who are caught by the big four worshipping minor deities probably spend eternity having to listen to Abba's greatest hits.
Just imagine it, an endless loop of 'Dancing Queen' and 'Mamma Mia'.:shok:


----------



## gothik

Words_of_Truth said:


> It really depends on what the minor chaos entity feeds off, look a Slaanesh he was able to fully come into fruition because none of the other gods fed off depravity and perverseness. There's probably plenty of other minor chaos entities but they are just minor aspects of one of the main gods. Kind of like the argument as to Khaine being an aspect of Khorne or vice versa.


didn't realise that one i know that in whf khaine is the half brother of Morr but i had no idea that he was seen by some as an aspect of khorne....learn something new everyday


----------



## Words_of_Truth

gothik said:


> didn't realise that one i know that in whf khaine is the half brother of Morr but i had no idea that he was seen by some as an aspect of khorne....learn something new everyday


It strongly suggests it in Liber Chaotica but the book is taken from a subjective point of view in that a "mad man" has written it after having visions.


----------



## gothik

and one more mad man in this world is enough here huh lol thanks though WOT much appreciated


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Tyrannus said:


> I just found my copy of the last CSM codex (When it was legion based) and it says there are numerous ways to worship and get powers from Chaos undivided. Sometimes you don't even have to follow any of the four to follow undivided; like the small, insignificant chaos cults dotted around the Imperium. Apparently they worship minor chaos gods which counts as CU. It's also used for temporary packs with the dark gods for increased power and some follow CU because they believe it is one entity and all the other four gods are part of said entity.
> 
> Hope this helps.


I think that's more a case of game mechanics than actual fluff. If you are a Worshipper of Malal/Malice then you really couldn't be considered a follower of Chaos Undivided. Worshipping a lesser Chaos God would make you as devoted as a follower of one of the big four. 
So, to represent followers of Arnold the Slightly Miffed, Chaos God of getting to the fridge and finding out that someone has eaten all the nice honey roast ham that you bought earlier, about 11:30, cos you fancied it for lunch but didn't get round to eating it so thought you'd save it for tea time but some bugger ate it. You would use rules for undivided, but in fluff terms they would worship the (*very* minor) God of Sandwich annoyance and general fridge misfortune.


----------



## Serpion5

Hahaha! Fridge God is fantastic! Be with rep sir!


I still think Chaos is the better option. But a thought occurs, what about those unfortunates who bear the pariah gene and possess no souls? What cause is there for them to follow either path? 

Serve the Imperium, die and be forgotten.

You can`t serve Chaos, they will simply destroy you.

Leaving one option. :wink:


----------



## Tyrannus

Serpion5 said:


> But a thought occurs, what about those unfortunates who bear the pariah gene and possess no souls? What cause is there for them to follow either path?
> 
> Serve the Imperium, die and be forgotten.
> 
> You can`t serve Chaos, they will simply destroy you.
> 
> Leaving one option. :wink:


The Tau?


----------



## ThatOtherGuy

Serpion5 said:


> Hahaha! Fridge God is fantastic! Be with rep sir!
> 
> 
> I still think Chaos is the better option. But a thought occurs, what about those unfortunates who bear the pariah gene and possess no souls? What cause is there for them to follow either path?
> 
> Serve the Imperium, die and be forgotten.
> 
> You can`t serve Chaos, they will simply destroy you.
> 
> Leaving one option. :wink:


DMV employee?


----------



## wannabepl47

Out of millions of worlds there are likely to be thousands with standards of living similar to ours today. Not to mention not everyone is going to be living as a slave... There are governors, generals etc.

The chaos gods themselves may be powerful, but their human followers, hell even the CSM are insignificant tbh. 

As a simple heretic you're going to get stomped hard by the Imperium, then tortured for all of eternity by your gods..


----------



## LukeValantine

where are you getting your facts from? If you read the codex's and the BL books most imperial worlds are shit holes where people are worked to death on a daily basis, hell almost every hive world can best be best described as a hellish ghetto where crime, disease, and poverty are the leading causes of death.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

LukeValantine said:


> where are you getting your facts from? If you read the codex's and the BL books most imperial worlds are shit holes where people are worked to death on a daily basis, hell almost every hive world can best be best described as a hellish ghetto where crime, disease, and poverty are the leading causes of death.


I assume there are nice worlds though, like Tanith as well as where all the more noble Imperial Guard regiments come from.


----------



## Grimskul25

LukeValantine said:


> where are you getting your facts from? If you read the codex's and the BL books most imperial worlds are shit holes where people are worked to death on a daily basis, hell almost every hive world can best be described as a living hell where crime, disease, and poverty are the leading causes of death.


Although what he said may not be exactly true, there are still many worlds that are not places like hive worlds where they don't have extreme poverty and slavery. Remember in BL most of the stories tend to surround hive worlds or other dark, industrial worlds mainly for the grimdarkness as well as the fact that most battles look better in a battle-worn ruin/hab-block rahter than in a farmhouse. There are shrine worlds, agri-worlds, whatever the medieval style ones are and even some primitive ones like where the abhumans live. The thing is with 40K they like to emphasize the really bad parts of living for the sake of the keeping with the story more interesting and in line with it being that type of genre. In reality there still has to be a significant number of worlds that aren't hellholes, what else can help support the hellhole planets to begin with. If you want actual proof of a decent system it would have to be (unfortunately yet not surprisingly) Ultramar. They are described as having a relatively good living conditions for their subjects and being self-sufficient without it being some type of wasteland where people are forced to work endlessly.


----------



## Imperious

Words_of_Truth said:


> I assume there are nice worlds though, like Tanith as well as where all the more noble Imperial Guard regiments come from.


There are. Of course there are. Considering how big the galaxy is why would anyone think otherwise? 

Do a search for the planet Gudrun. 

Now that being said, at the end of the day, the 40k universe is extremely dystopian. Even nice planets have to pony up their sons and daughters for the tithe to the IG.


----------



## SoL Berzerker

I'd become an Ultramarine.


----------



## Tyrannus

Well, If you read Rynn's world it tells you a stupid amount of the Imperium is actually uninhabitable; I can't really remember the actually percentage, but I am pretty sure it's like 98% of the planets in the Imperium is uninhabitable.

So yeah, there maybe planets like Tanith and systems like Ultramar. But they are so few and far between, that if you were an average Imperial citizen, you would most likely be living in a shithole hive or mining in a polluted backwater planet.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I'd still rather serve the Tau.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Words_of_Truth said:


> I'd still rather serve the Tau.


The Tau are the only other race I can see allowing humans to live with them.

Not Eldar because they can't afford to risk anything.


----------



## MuSigma

*would you join chaos?*

No I wouldn't join chaos.
Why? Mainly because I am a positive thinker I guess, chaos may appeal to the poor and wretched downtrodden and they have a right to rebel and destroy the wealthy lifestyle of their oppressers, I can see that. But I would like to replace a bad government with a better one. Chaos would seem the only choice for people who see the world and its leaders as corruption unredeemable and therefore the last resort is the destroy everything.

The main reason I see the Imperium has for its regime of oppression seems to be that they are at war, fair enough, but chaos has no army it only has marines and citizens of the Imperium who have felt the need to join chaos in the first place. The Imperium gives chaos all its recruits. We are fighting a war that didnt have to exist. Also to defeat the Imperium all chaos has to do is spawn on the planet and the Inquisition we napalm it and it will no longer be habitable. So planet be planet the Empire is loosing to clever gods using its own miserable citizens as troops forcing the empire to loose its own people and then the whole planet.

When the Emperor united Earth (Terra) he made 20 Primarchs and 20 legions and all the war material to Conquer all human inhabited planets and destroy all xeno culture. Now why do that if there were no chaos legions or cults in existance at that time - there was no war as an excuse for the Imperium.

But before I finish a couple of quotes from "A one thousand sons" Between Ohthere Wyrdmake - Chief Rune Priest of the Space Wolves and Ahriman of the 1000 sons. The subject is the brutal destruction of an intelligent human culture.

Ahriman "It galls me to imagine what is being lost here, the chance to learn of these people. What will we leave behind us but ashes and hate?"
Wyrdmake "What happens here after we leave is not our concern."
Ahriman "But it should be, Guilliman has the way of it. The worlds his Legion wins venerate his name and are said to be Utopias. Their inhabitants work tirelessly for the good of the Imperium as its most loyal subjects."
"The people of these worlds will be reluctant citizens of the Imperium at best, rebels-in-waiting at worst."
Wyrdmake "Then we will return and show them what happens to oathbreakers."

I really like the space wolves as a chapter, but something is wrong when the 1000 sons are now a Chaos chapter and the murdering bastards are on the Imperium side.

I guess chaos is there to destroy an Imperium that doesnt think it has to be decent to its citizens.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

MuSigma said:


> chaos may appeal to the poor and wretched downtrodden and they have a right to rebel and destroy the wealthy lifestyle of their oppressers, I can see that. But I would like to replace a bad government with a better one.


Good luck with that. 



MuSigma said:


> Chaos would seem the only choice for people who see the world and its leaders as corruption unredeemable and therefore the last resort is the destroy everything.


Chaos is unknown, your average Imperial citizen knows nothing of it. Therefore when they willingly give themselves over to the warp gods, it is not with the lofty intention of overthrowing the Emperor or his government, nor is it with the knowledge of what they will become - but merely for freedom from the horrible life that the Imperium offers. Dedication to Chaos however completely transforms the individual's morality (which was forged by Imperial society) and sets their inner desires free, resulting in a new life incompatible with Imperial society.



MuSigma said:


> When the Emperor united Earth (Terra) he made 20 Primarchs and 20 legions and all the war material to Conquer all human inhabited planets and destroy all xeno culture. Now why do that if there were no chaos legions or cults in existance at that time - there was no war as an excuse for the Imperium.


Not really quite sure what your getting at here, the Emperor kick-started the Great Crusade to reunite mankind in order to safeguard the entire species (by his own definition), it was the next step in the Emperor's plan to thwart chaos' influence on humanity and to smash aside xenos species which were not only a major threat but who were also aiding chaos as well.



MuSigma said:


> but something is wrong when the 1000 sons are now a Chaos chapter and the murdering bastards are on the Imperium side.


Seems quite representative really.


----------



## MuSigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuSigma 
When the Emperor united Earth (Terra) he made 20 Primarchs and 20 legions and all the war material to Conquer all human inhabited planets and destroy all xeno culture. Now why do that if there were no chaos legions or cults in existance at that time - there was no war as an excuse for the Imperium. 

Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor
Not really quite sure what your getting at here, the Emperor kick-started the Great Crusade to reunite mankind in order to safeguard the entire species (by his own definition), it was the next step in the Emperor's plan to thwart chaos' influence on humanity and to smash aside xenos species which were not only a major threat but who were also aiding chaos as well.

Yes it seems all well and good but I meant to say was he did not seek to "reunite" mankind in a peaceful way he sent his armies to "Conquer" them, thus forcing his subjects into a state where chaos would find willing recruits. Chaos was only a potential threat - it gets all of its soldiers from human kind it has little of its own. When someone like Lorgar is the "Diplomatic" hand of the Imperium its always going to get bloody.


----------



## Serpion5

Chaos was always going to target humanity, from the moment the crusade was launched. Probable even before then. Remember he bartered with them for power, and once he had what he needed he went back on his word and began his crusade. 

Frankly, the Emperor, in his arrogance, dug himself a hole so deep that his failure was all but inevitable.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Serpion5 said:


> Frankly, the Emperor, in his arrogance, dug himself a hole so deep that his failure was all but inevitable.


There are probably Tyranid hive-ships smaller than the Emperor's ego.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

MuSigma said:


> Yes it seems all well and good but I meant to say was he did not seek to "reunite" mankind in a peaceful way he sent his armies to "Conquer" them, thus forcing his subjects into a state where chaos would find willing recruits. Chaos was only a potential threat - it gets all of its soldiers from human kind it has little of its own. When someone like Lorgar is the "Diplomatic" hand of the Imperium its always going to get bloody.


Attempting to reunite the distant strands of humanity simply via diplomacy wasn't a viable option, that much should be obvious. 

And I assure you, chaos was not merely a 'potential threat'.



MuSigma said:


> it has little of its own.


Besides the infinite hordes of daemons?


----------



## World Eater XII

And legions of traitor guard that rival the Loyalist IG.


----------



## Grins1878

Angel of Blood said:


> Slannesh? So your now a marine who cares about nothing but trying to reach the next level of pleasure AND pain, soon things you like now will have no meaning to you, they will be dull and boring, music etc will go right out the window.


No way man! Noise Marines were Slannesh I think, they had guitars much like Adrian Smith and Dave Murray, so in that sense you'd still have music...

As it happens though, I'd stick with the Emperor, being blown to bits on a battlefield is far more appealing to me than old age or an eternal bumming from some demon with one boob and lobster hands! ;-)


----------



## Turkeyspit

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> Though its probably not possible, imagine that you were in the 40k world and you were human. No, not other races, lets just stick with the race you know how to live with the best. Would you join the chaos powers or stick with the Imperium? And why?
> 
> My choice: I say heck with the emperor and his Imperium. I don't like it. But I would like to work as someone with power in the Imperium that made a pact with the chaos gods in exchange for knowledge on the Imperium's military secrets. I hope that somehow it would protect me from being a chaos bitch.


If I were an ordinary run-of-the-mill human? HELL YEAH! You have to realize that for 95% 'ish of the Imperium, life really and truly sucks!

The only thing that keeps the masses of humanity in check is the constant state of fear they are kept in courtesy of the Inquisition. (think Department of Homeland Security in 40,000 years and you'll get the picture)

Chaos would have a lot to offer some scrub living in hive city: in the Imperium if you are born a nothing, chances are you'll stay one, while Chaos is a meritocracy. Oh yes! If you kill more baby kittens than the next guy, then you get to be Khornes bitch for the day!

The reason why W40K is portrayed as a losing battle is because...it is! The average person could gain more from the Ruinous Powers than by staying loyal to the Emperor.

Only the 'priviledged' have to deal with the temptation of falling to chaos, since they actually have something to lose: honor, duty, position, etc. A Space Marine or an Inquisitor turning to Chaos is the plot of a book, but nobody cares if Joe McFarmer joins a cult of Slaanesh.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Grins1878 said:


> No way man! Noise Marines were Slannesh I think, they had guitars much like Adrian Smith and Dave Murray, so in that sense you'd still have music...
> 
> As it happens though, I'd stick with the Emperor, being blown to bits on a battlefield is far more appealing to me than old age or an eternal bumming from some demon with one boob and lobster hands! ;-)


But thats exactly my point. Noise marines don't play anything we would consider music. not after a while anyway, its just pitches and tones that are so bad they literally hurt, giving them more pleasure.


----------



## TRU3 CHAOS

Angel of Blood said:


> But thats exactly my point. Noise marines don't play anything we would consider music. not after a while anyway, its just pitches and tones that are so bad they literally hurt, giving them more pleasure.


Haha, some of that we can hear today...

I think that many of those that said no to chaos basically have the idea that chaos is like our world's depiction of hell. So thats an interesting point.

I've always wondered. If Slaanesh's birth was created by the eldar, and (mmm I'm not sure in the 40k world, but it seemed as though khorne was made from mankind), are there any thoughts on how the others were born/created. Other races perhaps?


----------



## Chompy Bits

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> I've always wondered. If Slaanesh's birth was created by the eldar, and (mmm I'm not sure in the 40k world, but it seemed as though khorne was made from mankind), are there any thoughts on how the others were born/created. Other races perhaps?


Tzeentch was born when a rubix cube committed suicide.:crazy:

You kinda have to try and think like Douglas Adams for it to make sense.


----------



## Grins1878

Angel of Blood said:


> But thats exactly my point. Noise marines don't play anything we would consider music. not after a while anyway, its just pitches and tones that are so bad they literally hurt, giving them more pleasure.


I'm glad you didn't include Dave Murray and Steve Harris in that ;-)

Suppose it would be like a Darkness gig ;-)


----------



## Serpion5

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> Haha, some of that we can hear today...
> 
> I think that many of those that said no to chaos basically have the idea that chaos is like our world's depiction of hell. So thats an interesting point.
> 
> I've always wondered. If Slaanesh's birth was created by the eldar, and (mmm I'm not sure in the 40k world, but it seemed as though khorne was made from mankind), are there any thoughts on how the others were born/created. Other races perhaps?


The Chaos Gods were formed long before mankind. We are just their... primary contributor so to speak.


----------



## the_man_with_plan

see, everyones complaints about chaos are about what it looks like to a normal human.

once you join chaos you see things differently.

and who doesn't want immortality, power, pleasure and knowledge. four gifts for four gods.

they're much pereferable to servitude under the false emperor


----------



## BlackGuard

The Immortal Emperor of All Mankind would forever hold my alliegance. Mind you -- I'm assuming we, as normal humans, actually know everything about Chaos and the Heresy and everything. 

Even knowing I worship a corpse upon a throne, a Carrion Lord of a dying realm. I would rather die for the Emperor than live for myself. Why? The Dark Gods are ultimately flawed and ultimately see Humanity has nothing more than food. You wish to be food for the gods? Or would you rather die unknown, uncared for, and forgotten long before you even die in service to the Golden Throne.

Take into account also the chances of a MORTAL actually ascending to daemonhood. Yes, there are Demon Princes such as Doombreed who have ascended -- but he did so before the Astartes were born. They currently, in their legions of strength, hold the god's attention right now. Mortals like you and I are playthings to them, nothing more than meat shields to the Word Bears, useful idiots to the Alpha Legion, and cannon fodder for the Black Legion. The other would use us in even less diserable ways. 

Mortals have an even shorter life expectancy within the Warp than they do within the Imperium. We often believe that we will be recruited to an Imperial Guard regiment immediately, be shipped off to some hopeless battlefield and die within hours. 

Think of the chances for moment. War rages around the Imperium, but for a realm of one million worlds, it rages in only a portion of it at best. Not to mention the average life-span for a non-augmented human within the Imperium is anywhere from 25-65 years of age. The Imperium thinks in centuries and millennia, not the decades we currently live in. Things rarely change and when they do, it takes much time.

You could end up upon some backwater world, a forge world, or hell a Hive World and never see war -- yes hardship, brutality, and a useless existance -- but you are realtively safe and you won't suffer demonic corruption. A fate that many books have often recorded as the worst thing to happen to most mortals. 

Should you join Chaos? Assuming you don't die during your cults early years, you eventual revolution of your world, and the bringing down of your governor -- who is to say you will not be a sacrifice upon the alter? Who is to say your rebellion will even prosper beyond your own world -- hell it may not even extend beyond your capital city. For argument sake we will assume you beat the Imperium. Hell you survive the attack by the Guard, and the second and third wave supported by Astartes -- SOMEHOW. 

What chances do you have of even leaving your world to head for the Eye of Terror or Maelstrom? Chances are you, a common mortal, would never be picked to leave unless you were made a labor slave and hauled off by a roaming Chaos Warband who gave their limited assistance in exchange for helping fend off the Space Marines. Let us say once again, for argument's sake, that you survive and get off this planet. The Imperium ultimately crushes all rebellions, but you got lucky and got a ship and headed towards the Maelstrom or Eye of Terror.

Your chances of making it? Zero, with virtually non-existant at best. Should you run the blockade of the Cadian Gate, or other border-worlds, or break into Maelstrom without being vaporized by the Maelstrom Wardens Chapters. What now? Your body will probably die instantly and your soul raped by demons. Assuming they don't outright posess you and make you kill yourself for their amusement.

What will you do? A single mortal in the Warp is nothing, not even a guttering flame. You'd have to join one of the Legions as a petty slave or at best, a half-trained soldier. Let us say you wage war for them, and somehow manage not to die everytime without pissing them off cause you lived. Let us say you rise through the ranks until you are a Taskmaster, second only to the lowest of Astartes.

Now what? You cannot rise higher -- your soul is damned, and there is no way the Astartes will let you have a chance to ascend to daemonhood. You'll probably be killed as soon as its convient for them -- they of coarse don't want the Slave-Lord of the Slaves to get too high and mighty.

Finally -- lets assume, by the will of the gods, you have outsmarted some of the most intelligent and corrupted beings in the universe and now you stand at the edge of daemonhood -- or do you? There is always a 50% chance you'll just turn into a Chaos Spawn and die within hours or days.

All your luck -- all your hard work, all your dedication and insaity. And in the end you'll probably fail anyway.

Thanks -- but no thanks -- I'd rather just die for the Corpse-God.


----------



## Mannimarco

Are we seeing this from our own Gods eye view of the 40k universe or are we seeing it from the perspective of somebody in that universe?

Im not about to start worshiping Nurgle seeing as how we know what Chaos is but to the person in the 40k universe Nurgle is the guy who is promising you eternal life free from pain if you follow him. When you are working 18 hours a day in some factory and most of your family are dead from poor diet/any number of illnesses caused by your crappy standard of living then Nurgle actually sounds like a good idea. Khorne is the god who will grant you the strength to fight your oppressors, Slaanesh is going to get you laid and grant you the ability to perfect any art you turn your hand to, Tzeentch is going to guide you so you dont get caught up in all this scheming and politicking. Nobody is gonna pull your strings, your gonna be in charge from now on working away behind the scenes.

Chaos is a pretty tantalising prospect for a lot of people in the 40k universe.


----------



## Iron Angel

Doesnt really matter. Youre all going to be killed by Necrons in the end.

But if I HAD to pretend I was human, then I suppose no. The chaos gods have nothing to offer that I want. The only way I would join is if I could enter that five-chambered palace of Slaanesh and be lost forever in the sex room.


----------



## LukeValantine

Chaos is a choice of desperation. Safety is a relative thing blackgaurd, and if you lived in a empire like the imperium, I think you would probably spend more days then not contemplating putting a bullet in your own head then not. Its hard for us to imagine how shitty life is for imperial citizens in 65% of the imperium of man, working 18+ days without a chance of advancing or even being thanked once, no chance for higher learning no freedom of speech or thought. Truly for many death would seem a welcomed embrace compared to such a life. Hell even the most destitute places in our world today pale in comparison to the nightmarish hells of some imperial worlds.

So why turn to chaos most likely a healthy blend of desperation and ignorance.

Also keep in mind GW has made the warp look more idiotically evil over time, completely killing any sane idea of why they are so numerous and powerful when they make it sound like their fatality rate is 90%. Seriously GW get off the pot. I liked it in the few stories they released were it made chaos look like a variant of imperial life, stuff like the few books talking about the blood pack ect make chaos as a effective military faction at least somewhat believable.

In all honesty if chaos was as stupid, and unnecessarily evil as most GW hacks make them look, then we could expect chaos as a hull to have a victory rate of something like 5%. So ignoring GW grim dark nonsense for a bit, and applying a bit of common sense we most take a more realistic approach to chaos, and view it as a conflicting global view points, and as such both sides would be actively trying to villanize the other. And that is the only view point that makes any sense.


----------



## C'Tan Chimera

Hey, if they promise me a cool enough a gas mask I'll join up with Nurgle and maybe take a few guardsmen down with me- maybe if I'm lucky enough I'll get a chance to defiantly tell a Space Marine to go fuck himself before I got mowed down.


----------



## vipertaja

Assuming one knows what chaos is (to the extent one can), joining it is likely not a good idea. It's not as simple as "would you or wouldn't you?". Even if you think you wouldn't, you might still succumb to the seduction of chaos knowingly or unknowingly. It could even be pretty much out of your hands completely.

So to answer the question (even as a chaos enthusiast): Knowing chaos, I wouldn't strive to join it's ranks, but I might end up there nonetheless. Same goes for anyone, really. Normal mortal minds fall easily to the ruinous powers.


----------



## Weapon

If I wasn't allowed to lazily grow fat in the corner with the Imperium, then I go chaos.

Think about the freaky powers you could have...

Luther was only a normal human, and with augmetics (I think) and chaos backing him up, he was able to beat the Lion, so who knows what one normal human could gain?


----------



## vipertaja

Weapon said:


> Think about the freaky powers you could have...


If you'd read the old realm of chaos books with their insanely long random mutation tables, you might not be so eager. :no:


----------



## forkmaster

I wouldnt want to fall, but if I would however is another question. Like everyone who falls to Chaos, its only the first steps that attracts, but then it needs to get worse or more, like for a drug addict. Soon your stuck in a limbo with no way out. So a couple of fun mortal years is nothing compared to the following eternal damnation.


----------



## Ashkore08

Yeah. Id join Chaos. But with my luck, id probably end up a Slaaneshi sorceror, then get captured and enslaved by the Dark Eldar, getting my sould nommed on and bieng tortured... Then Slaanesh or Vect will make jokes about irony.


----------



## turel2

Chaos - Slaaneshi Pleasure cult here I come!


----------



## Weapon

vipertaja said:


> If you'd read the old realm of chaos books with their insanely long random mutation tables, you might not be so eager. :no:


I can put up with having extra dicks.


----------



## Karak The Unfaithful

Me? I'd join chaos, I probaly loose a limb trying to get into a cult then through chaos worship end up with ugly mutation. After that I'd spend several years trying to avoid and inquisitor and end up some mutant in a cult full of pyhcos.

After trying out all the different gods I would, inevitably, end up at the side of the blood god.


----------



## LukeValantine

As a skull?


----------



## spanner94ezekiel

NEVER :victory:
For the Lion will wake and the Imperium shall overcome. We shall overcome (+rep to anyone who picks up who said that phrase)

Btw - 500 posts :biggrin:


----------



## Weapon

spanner94ezekiel said:


> NEVER :victory:
> For the Lion will wake and the Imperium shall overcome. We shall overcome (+rep to anyone who picks up who said that phrase)
> 
> Btw - 500 posts :biggrin:


You may have 500 posts, but...

I bet you regret that username.

Hehehehehe....


----------



## cameron the pillager

Well.i don't think i woud purposley do it but knowing my luck tzeentch would pick on me -_- and end up being a sorcceror of tzeentch then in a cruel twist of "fate" be slaughterd be some khorne nutter. or id be stabbed in the back long before that and end up in a gutter XD ethier way id be screwed.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

If I HAD to join I would join Tzeentch but most of the time I don't think people join Chaos like "I hereby swear my soul to the Ruinous Powers" no. Look at how the primarchs fall to Chaos. They (most of them) slowly corrupted themselves until their souls were tainted. 

The Chaos Gods are extremes of specific emotions. It's not like you can't "feel" those emotions without them. I think I wouldn't join but would probably become slowly corrupted.


----------



## raider1987

I could do with a few hours a week in a Slannesh pleasure cult. Sex, drugs and sex.


----------



## Mossy Toes

There is no way in, quite literally, Hell that I would worship the chaos gods. That shit is rape, murder, debauchery, and heinous, unnatrual, immoral crimes all the way through--plus 99.989% of Chaos's worshipers are mere cultists, cannon fodder, etc. Then there is the fact that almost all die alone, broken, abandoned by their gods, their sins and grandoise, egomaniacal schemes crashing down around their ears--or on the Inquisition's torture tables, suffering unimaginable torments.

If anything, I'd be a Gue'vesa.


----------



## Hellhammer

I would do like the Night Lords did, they aren't with the Imperium, but they also aren't Chaos. They are just rebels. I don't want the Emperor or some Chaos gods telling me what to do.


----------



## WarWolf88

For the Emperor! All the way!

...or well, until I got into a spot I couldn't get out of with my life at least, then I think I'd go Khorne. Just for the hell of it. But at some point, I would stab every one in the back and go Malal! Mwahahahahaah:laugh:


----------



## MetalHandkerchief

Mossy Toes said:


> If anything, I'd be a Gue'vesa.


Hear hear.

I'd much rather be born a Tau, but you know. We can't all belong to the master race, but at least they're benign enough to take us on board.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Mossy Toes said:


> There is no way in, quite literally, Hell that I would worship the chaos gods. That shit is rape, murder, debauchery, and heinous, unnatrual, immoral crimes all the way through


Taking this back to the initial debates before this thread was revived, I can't see anyone disagreeing with you at all there _Mossy_. Knowing what we know of Chaos it would take an utter madman to willingly join the Dark Gods.

However, placing our mind in the context of an ignorant Imperial citizen, I would say it would take an utter madman not to willingly join Chaos. Taking into account that your average Imperial citizen knows absolutley nothing about Chaos and what you would become if you dedicated yourself to the Chaos Gods, then I know at least I personally would certainly join Chaos given what I would know in-context. I would be offered _freedom_ from the horrible life that the Imperium offers, and wonders beyond my wildest dreams, *seemingly* without price (even though obviously a terrible price must be paid). Theres no wonder that first the Emperor, and now the Inquisition attempt to keep the entire Imperium ignorant of even the existence of Chaos.



normtheunsavoury said:


> I don't think it's as simple as 'would you join Chaos'.
> No one looks at a junkie lying in a heap and thinks "Ooh, that looks cool, where do I buy heroin round here?"
> The Chaos powers don't put up big advertising posters saying "Join us, get tentacles where your eyes once were and have eyeballs in your rectum!"
> Falling to Chaos is a slow process, it takes a long time and I really don't think in any of the stories so far anyone has done it willingly and knowing all that comes with it.
> Take Khorne as an example, no one in their right mind wants to be a raving psychopath who doesn't even care if it's their own head being lopped off.
> Khorne appeals to the fighting spirit in all of us, the anger, martial pride, honour to a degree and even a yearning for revenge. Falling to Khorne is actually quite appealing when you look at the early stages, if you saw what would eventually happen you'd probably think again.
> 
> So, taking all this into account, would I join Chaos?
> Probably, eventually, it sounds like the stupid sort of thing I'd do.


:goodpost:


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Taking this back to the initial debates before this thread was revived, I can't see anyone disagreeing with you at all there _Mossy_. Knowing what we know of Chaos it would take an utter madman to willingly join the Dark Gods.
> 
> However, placing our mind in the context of an ignorant Imperial citizen, I would say it would take an utter madman not to willingly join Chaos. Taking into account that your average Imperial citizen knows absolutley nothing about Chaos and what you would become if you dedicated yourself to the Chaos Gods, then I know at least I personally would certainly join Chaos given what I would know in-context. I would be offered _freedom_ from the horrible life that the Imperium offers, and wonders beyond my wildest dreams, *seemingly* without price (even though obviously a terrible price must be paid). Theres no wonder that first the Emperor, and now the Inquisition attempt to keep the entire Imperium ignorant of even the existence of Chaos.
> 
> 
> 
> :goodpost:


This kind of goes into what I was saying. Yeah we a a large view on Chaos but to people in the WH40K universe they don't have this huge/wide scope on Chaos


----------



## C'Tan Chimera

Mossy Toes said:


> If anything, I'd be a Gue'vesa.


I'd agree, but the outfits! Chaos has a sense in punk apocalyptic fashion that I want in on.


----------



## Diatribe1974

Why join something that ultimately just wants my body & soul for it's own plaything?

No thanks. If I were in the 40k universe, I'd be one loyal Fenrisian to the bitter end.


----------



## vipertaja

Diatribe1974 said:


> Why join something that ultimately just wants my body & soul for it's own plaything?
> 
> No thanks. If I were in the 40k universe, I'd be one loyal Fenrisian to the bitter end.


Assuming you'd happen to be on Fenris, that is.


----------



## spanner94ezekiel

Weapon said:


> You may have 500 posts, but...
> 
> I bet you regret that username.
> 
> Hehehehehe....


Why you!..... :threaten:

At least it's original though :biggrin:

As a side note my DA will hunt you down and kill you...after they've made you repent for your sins.


----------



## D-A-C

I havent read all those pages of comments, but here is my 2 cents.

1. I would join Chaos in 40k given what I know about it from the fluff. I personally think the Emperor was seeking Godhood and that the Chaos Gods are merely sentient emotions derived from all living things in the universe. So in a way we are all always already Chaos followers.

2. In the context of 40k I dont think you join, rather you are compelled by your circumstances. Don't forget that most people in the 40k universe dont know all the things we know from the fluff. So joining Chaos is more a slippery slope than actually consenting.

That's my opinion anyway.


----------



## Mossy Toes

vipertaja said:


> Assuming you'd happen to be on Fenris, that is.


See, that sort of assumption really rankles me. Threads like "If you were in 40k, what would you be," and such--if you are in the 40k universe, the vastly most likely role you would fill is being a) a beaten-down manual laborer, b) a scribe in the mind-crushing tedium of Imperial bureaucracy, c) a feral world tribesman, and/or d) a drafted conscript in the Imperial Guard. There is no basis whatsoever for just leaping to the conclusion that you would get to be a part of whatever faction you think is cool. (edit: and that's just faction and role. Like vipertaja said, location is a factor too. If you're born on a genestealer-infected world on the Eastern Fringe, you can hardly become a mjod-quaffing Space Wolf, can you?)

As CoTE (and norm) kind of said, ignorance is the main factor here, in the question posed on this thread. The fluff that we receive in codexes is top-tier super top secret vermillion level clearance stuff, mostly--often going beyond even what the Inquisition could possibly guess at.

The operating assumption of this thread is that we get to make the decision based on our current preconceptions and level of knowledge. Simply put, that would not happen in 40k.

That said, there is no rational, reasonable, realistic reason for anybody from this galaxy, place and time to even think about considering worshiping chaos in a serious way (of their own free will, based on a mind that hasn't fallen on account of corruption, coercion, continual exposure, threats, and/or mind-breaking chaos powers), even granted being suddenly plopped into the 40k universe.


----------



## The Sullen One

Angelus Censura said:


> EDIT: as a regular human, turning to chaos will get you about as far as the 15 hours of being on the Imperium's side. Heretics are used as cannon fodder and meat sheilds, Chaos Marines and entities simply use these heretics for opening a portal or finding out information, sabotaging sheild systems so Chaos can land on a planet, etc. After that, their useless and are killed along with the rest of the enemy.


Depends on how you go about it. In the Cain books he runs into this Slaneeshi cultist who's posing as a madame. After he kills her, Slaneesh brings her back as a Daemon Princess.

As to the question, well I guess you wouldn't know until the time came. A lot of the conversion or falling to corruption in 40k occurs through coercion or simple trickery. Worse yet you could end up with Karamazov frying you alive simply because he's having a bad day, or have your planet liberated by the Iron Hands. Stuff like that's bound to make you turn to the ruinous powers.


----------



## Epidemius

Although chaos is my favorite faction in 40k, I'd probably want to be a space marine and fight for "justice" and all that. However, if i were to be a regular human (in a super crappy place to live) I'd join chaos and just not kill civilians. actually that probably wouldn't work. hell with it, if i lived as a civilian in the 40k universe, I'd just freaking shoot myself.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

raider1987 said:


> I could do with a few hours a week in a Slannesh pleasure cult. Sex, drugs and sex.


Yeah but hours turn to days and days turn to weeks and etc to etc



Mossy Toes said:


> There is no way in, quite literally, Hell that I would worship the chaos gods. That shit is rape, murder, debauchery, and heinous, unnatrual, immoral crimes all the way through--plus 99.989% of Chaos's worshipers are mere cultists, cannon fodder, etc. Then there is the fact that almost all die alone, broken, abandoned by their gods, their sins and grandoise, egomaniacal schemes crashing down around their ears--or on the Inquisition's torture tables, suffering unimaginable torments.
> 
> If anything, I'd be a Gue'vesa.


I agree with you. That's why I don't like it when people say Chaos or "What is evil?" is a matter of perspective. I think there are SOME ground lines where we can look on Chaos and say, "You know... maybe killing 15 billion people for shits and giggles isn't morally right. I'm just sayin''

Remember that the different factions of Chaos are Extremes in a specific emotion or ideal. The idea in its most simplistic form might be innocent, or less innocent as in its full extent. Take Khorne for example: Put yourself in the shoes of a warrior, someone who leads an army to fight for his nation/city/whatever scale of view you wish it to be. You would want Glory for your army and your men that you fight with. You want their blades to strike first and their will to dominate your enemies. That by itself is not a terrible thing (every country in this world wishes this for their soldiers in war) But as you slowly give in, you become blooddrunk and become a person hellbent on murder. And it all started with a Simple idea that grew and slowly corrupted you. You don't just instantly go on a killing spree with an appocalyptic fury. I was going to make this post about Slaanesh but my mom was sitting on the couch behind me and I didn't want her randomly glancing a tthe screen :laugh: 

Where many can argue and say that certain points of Chaos are "not evil" I think it is safe to say that Chaos is like an infection. It slowly corrupts and it spreads throughout your being until you are consumed by it and become nothing more that the extreme of that simple idea. 

As I said earlier in this post, I think i would slowly fall to the service of Tzeentch because I highly value knowledge and has always had a fascination with dark magic and stuff like that (jsut in a fantasy thing, not real life lol) and I see myself falling to him faster than any of the others.


----------



## LukeValantine

Mossy Toes said:


> See, that sort of assumption really rankles me. Threads like "If you were in 40k, what would you be," and such--if you are in the 40k universe, the vastly most likely role you would fill is being a) a beaten-down manual laborer, b) a scribe in the mind-crushing tedium of Imperial bureaucracy, c) a feral world tribesman, and/or d) a drafted conscript in the Imperial Guard. There is no basis whatsoever for just leaping to the conclusion that you would get to be a part of whatever faction you think is cool. (edit: and that's just faction and role. Like vipertaja said, location is a factor too. If you're born on a genestealer-infected world on the Eastern Fringe, you can hardly become a mjod-quaffing Space Wolf, can you?)
> 
> As CoTE (and norm) kind of said, ignorance is the main factor here, in the question posed on this thread. The fluff that we receive in codexes is top-tier super top secret vermillion level clearance stuff, mostly--often going beyond even what the Inquisition could possibly guess at.
> 
> The operating assumption of this thread is that we get to make the decision based on our current preconceptions and level of knowledge. Simply put, that would not happen in 40k.
> 
> That said, there is no rational, reasonable, realistic reason for anybody from this galaxy, place and time to even think about considering worshiping chaos in a serious way (of their own free will, based on a mind that hasn't fallen on account of corruption, coercion, continual exposure, threats, and/or mind-breaking chaos powers), even granted being suddenly plopped into the 40k universe.


Well said, and thankfully well removed from noes chaos is da evil I would be a space knight idiocy that has polluted this thread.


----------



## vipertaja

Mossy Toes said:


> See, that sort of assumption really rankles me. Threads like "If you were in 40k, what would you be," and such--if you are in the 40k universe, the vastly most likely role you would fill is being a) a beaten-down manual laborer, b) a scribe in the mind-crushing tedium of Imperial bureaucracy, c) a feral world tribesman, and/or d) a drafted conscript in the Imperial Guard. There is no basis whatsoever for just leaping to the conclusion that you would get to be a part of whatever faction you think is cool. (edit: and that's just faction and role. Like vipertaja said, location is a factor too. If you're born on a genestealer-infected world on the Eastern Fringe, you can hardly become a mjod-quaffing Space Wolf, can you?)
> 
> As CoTE (and norm) kind of said, ignorance is the main factor here, in the question posed on this thread. The fluff that we receive in codexes is top-tier super top secret vermillion level clearance stuff, mostly--often going beyond even what the Inquisition could possibly guess at.
> 
> The operating assumption of this thread is that we get to make the decision based on our current preconceptions and level of knowledge. Simply put, that would not happen in 40k.
> 
> That said, there is no rational, reasonable, realistic reason for anybody from this galaxy, place and time to even think about considering worshiping chaos in a serious way (of their own free will, based on a mind that hasn't fallen on account of corruption, coercion, continual exposure, threats, and/or mind-breaking chaos powers), even granted being suddenly plopped into the 40k universe.


Yes. This was my thinking on the subject as well.

Also some seem to think falling to chaos is like installing software (Are you sure you want to be evil? y/n) but its a lot subtler than that. Not even a concious process for many. There have even been a few cases where cultists may even think they still worship the emperor.


----------



## papa nurgle

I would turn renegade after training as a SM, making a conditional pact with tzeench. I would spontaneously show up wherever knowledge was under threat, be it in the fires of battle or the discovery of the arcane in the hands of an unconditioned mind and protect it. This may mean I fight all races and creeds but I'm sure tzeench would rather a few loyalists of his cause die for the correct knowledge. In essence I would become a mirror of Arihman but cooler.


----------



## SonOfStan

I would immediately kill myself if I was born in the 41st Millenium.

Ever wonder what the Chaos Gods would do if Humanity committed mass suicide? Like every single Human, in the galaxy, at the same time? Abbadon would be like Will Ferrel in 'Megamind.' :laugh:


----------



## khrone forever

im going to go with chaos, because of the chance of becomeing pure awsomeness


----------



## Daemon Child

I'd turn to Chaos as a marine of Tzeentch for the fun of shooting lightning from my hands and killing with my thoughts while reading books about how to shoot lightning from my hands


----------



## Sephyr

Indeed, many books show that more than a few chaos worshippers are quite smart and ambitious. There's Septimus in the Soul Hunter novel, who would have wasted his life as a dock loader piling boxes like a servitor, but instead chose to serve the Night Lords. He admitted it sucked, but it was also a chance to see momentous things and be an acting part in colossal events. He got to talk to people who had been in the shadow of Primarchs, meet aliens, and actually be valued for his talents. Hell, he helped bring down a titan.

The psyker girl in Lord of the Night is another case. Not many strong-willed, sensitive people can go through life slavig away for a structure that -actively- hates you. Chaos can be a rebel's way out, a chance to do something in your own terms. Sure, you end up a subject either way...but at least you get to pick your poison: the Chaos deities cotton to your preferences, ironically enough. Khorne doesn't force the bookworm into becoming a slaughterer, he urges the violent to become murderous. 

So if it's polishing bolter casings 17 hours a day for scraps at a manufactorium or summoning Tzeentch to drive me mad with the arcane wonders of the Warp, I'll be drawing eight-pointed stars like nobody's business.


----------



## Deadeye776

You must have missed the whole "We Night Lords hate and looked down on anyone serving the Chaos Powers." I just finished both Night Lord novels and the whole premise is that they only wanted to destroy the corrupt Imperium and its lies. Talos and the rest of his brothers looked down and despise Chaos. They see the reason Horus failed is that his rebellion began with corruption and not wisdom. In truth even their own brothers that have been tainted they shun and loathe.Septimus said those things because running with Astartes is incredible and he's exposed to things he would never normally experiance,mostly bad,but incredible. The same with the girl. Absolutely nothing about Chaos holds any appeal to anyone sane or rational. His brother was once a honored sergeant and leader. Now because of taint he's shunned. Same with their captain.Nightlords don't want or need to ally with any power to make them predators,they were born that way.


----------



## Haskanael

Imperium please. 
Chaos is just ... unappealing to me.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Ditto. I don't ever read anything chaos related, be it the books, codexes or other and think "Yep, i would like some of that". When i read the likes of Gaunts Ghosts, Eisenhorn, Ravenor, the Heresy books, the Guard/Astartes codexes etc etc. I think "Yep, i'm a loyalist to the core"


----------



## Daemon Child

i'd rather be a Daemon prince of tzeentch with all the knowledge of the universe and the power to break the laws of physics and gravity


----------



## CattleBruiser

Captain Slaughter and Crucian, need i say more?


----------



## Black Steel Feathers

I would honestly like to say no, given all of the foul and horrible stuff that Chaos followers end up doing- not to mention the fact they're puppets the Cthuluesque monstrosities- but looking back on earlier pages I think the answer is 'yes, I would- but unwillingly'. 

To clear it up, I think I would start out as a loyalist worshipping the Emperor and all that, but slowly or quickly fall to Chaos if I got into any sort of danger. In real life I have a problem with following orders for no reason or that have no perks for me, I lie easily, get appalled by major disasters but find it hard to care for those I know, and I'm possibly the last person to put my life on the line for anyone. I'm nice on a day-to-day basis, but not when actual peril is involved. Basically, the God-Emperor would be a great big holy comfort blanket to stop the monsters from getting to poor little me. As soon as the comfort blanket shows signs of failing, my natural cowardly/depressive streak would kick in and I'd be willing to sign pretty much any dotted line you waved in front of my face. Yeah, I'm a coward- I don't see any point in denying it. It's just who I am.

If my little planet were in danger, I would probably fight (very badly) if I had to until there was no choice but to run away and hide if I could. Maybe that attitude would get me shot for desertion, but I don't know if they'd do that with civilians. Assuming I wasn't killed in the fight and I managed to get away, whatever invaded would probably find me in a snivelling little ball of terror and shoot me out of pure disgust. Now, if the option of going to Chaos was offered, I'm slightly ashamed to say I would mostly likely take it; I wouldn't be thinking of the long-term consequences, just how to stay alive- of a sort- a few more days or even years. Yes, I'd mostly likely regret it and wish I were dead pretty soon, but I wouldn't be in any state of mind to think about that then.

I would probably turn to Tzeentch- I'm a lying, cheating little s-o-b when I want to be, and I've always liked the idea of magic. Intelligence is something I value, though I probably won't be able to keep in with the more complicated plots. Or possibly, and oddly, Nurgle. I've got a bleak view of things in humanity in general and some people in particular which can tip over into borderline depression. Sometimes I think that we're all doomed and the best thing to do would be to just go along with it. The Plaguefather also offers a way to avoid pain, and I have a pretty low pain threshold. I'd have to get over my phobia of mould first, of course. Slaanesh holds very little appeal to a boring little asexual like myself, and I'm not tough or 'heroic' enough to join Khorne. 

tl;dr- If I ever found myself in a position where there was no hope of rescue or anything, I would give myself to Chaos; the same would happen if the Imperium managed to rub me up the wrong way, which is actually pretty easy considering. But if I didn't, I think my (flickering, but still there) belief in humanity's flexible and detirmined nature might just enough pull me through and keep me loyal. 

I'm not a hero. I just want to survive.


----------



## SaintTom

I think I would sign up with the Blood Pact, following Chaos. 

Other side of the imperial guard coin, yes. But, I have the possibility of my god or daemonic patron to give me gifts and rise me through the ranks. Not every human dies or is just a plaything, some can become very powerful and successful.


----------

