# most powerful fantasy army?



## thedarkside69

coming into a grand tournament or even in a flgs, what is the most generally overpowered army there is? besides daemons (i am discluding daemons from this poll because their obviously the strongest)


----------



## thedarkside69

nevermind I cant figure out how to work polls


----------



## newsun

VC prlly from what I have seen.


----------



## Vaz

Depends how you play them. This isn't 40K where if you choose X army, you win, this is Fantasy where what you do will make you win.

Vampire Counts are easy to play, and rely on their Characters to win, due to the power dice they have, they can raise dead, lots of them. Most armies don't overload on Magic Defence - as 6th edition was balanced, but now they are either fully magic, or fully combat, with perhaps a scroll caddy.

My Warriors of Chaos work excellently against Vampires - raise the dead all you like - you're still wounding me on 6's, and I'm still immune to Fear. Give me all the VP's you need. As I said, build your army well, and you can win against anything, unless the dice go against you.


----------



## maddermax

Vas has it pretty right here, there is no ultimate army. However, there is a tier of stronger armies, and a tier of weaker armies, and some armies are strong against one particular enemy, and weak against another.

OK and BoC are still a bit nerfed from what I've seen, while Deamons are a bit more powerful, but have troubles against some armies. The other armies with more recent updates tend to be a little bit better, a little more powerful than average, so HE/DE, WoC and the new Scalies, However, they still die if not used right.

Brets and WEs are pretty good though, as 6th ed books that can go toe to toe in torneys with the newer armies, and for other older armies, you can usually get certain power builds to keep them effective.


----------



## Apoca6

every army beats my ogres :grin: 

Ogres are HARD to play, VC were the nastiest I have faced so far.


----------



## neilbatte

Ogres are difficult to win with ,but with practice the only army that is pretty much certain to beat them is high elves and their ASF at least its the only army that consistently beats me, They're a bit like a basic starter army but with advanced tactics needed to win.
I don't understand why everyone thinks that the Deamon armies are so good my Chaos Dwarves beat them almost as easily as Highelves beat my Ogres,shame Chaos dwarves are not tourney legal.


----------



## Apoca6

only played my ogres a few times, not had an opponent in a year and a half though so never got to refine my tactics and list :grin:


----------



## maddermax

neilbatte said:


> Ogres are difficult to win with ,but with practice the only army that is pretty much certain to beat them is high elves and their ASF at least its the only army that consistently beats me, They're a bit like a basic starter army but with advanced tactics needed to win.
> I don't understand why everyone thinks that the Deamon armies are so good my Chaos Dwarves beat them almost as easily as Highelves beat my Ogres,shame Chaos dwarves are not tourney legal.


Exactly my point. It still all comes down to the general and tactics - good tactics and effective use of your troops always trump a good army list. OK in a normal group however still take a lot of practise and good tactics to win, but can be very effective when you master them, whereas VC are a lot easier to use and win with from the word go. 

That said, when it comes to tourneys, you're still at a slight disadvantage playing OKs, as the generals in competition are usually pretty good themselves, and able to play on the weaknesses of ogres. 

Meanwhile, as for Deamons, while they are pretty powerful against most armies, however they really lose out to some armies, and it sounds like chaos dwarves, and from what someone was saying the other the new lizard men, can really kick them to the curb. It still really comes down to tactics though.


----------



## your master

as said before its tactics but i have not won the warriors of chaos with there new codex i dont think they are overpowered i just think they are as hard as nails that are coated in 3 foot of steel sorrounded by a lava pit!!!!!!


----------



## Cabagepatch

So if I was thinking about starting a WHF army and wanted it to be easy to play with (not always being slaughtered), i should start out with VC? ~What about skaven? (i saw a thread that described each race _*except*_ for skaven in WHF... kind of lame) ... i kind of thought they were cool


----------



## Apoca6

i'd go VC since they have just been re done, and skaven are due soonish


----------



## maddermax

Cabagepatch said:


> So if I was thinking about starting a WHF army and wanted it to be easy to play with (not always being slaughtered), i should start out with VC? ~What about skaven? (i saw a thread that described each race _*except*_ for skaven in WHF... kind of lame) ... i kind of thought they were cool


Ah, if its the intro to warhammer armies, they've just added skaven in the last couple of days - check again, and you should find it!

If you want a pretty good starting army which you can start playing and winning with straight off, VC is pretty good. They are ItP and Unbreakable - so you won't suddenly find half your army running away at the drop of a hat. They cause fear, so half your enemies army might end up running away instead. They can spawn extra troops, and they have some excellent characters. And they have a decent range of plastics, which makes them a better beginning choice than deamons. 

However, all armies are usually pretty decent to play with, even for a beginner. I'd steer clear of the older/mostly metal armies, and some of the less reliable armies (You'll have problems with all goblins or OKs and the like until you really learn to use them - and even then it's difficult). But all the others are pretty fun to use, and I think teach you a lot more about how to really play the game than the fearless armies.

Anyway, hope that helps! start a thread if you're looking for more info!


----------



## Pertoleum

don't start an army based on what will win you games, go for what army appeals to you the most, for me, i went vamps, but i didn't even no they were top tier till i got on here., i got them cause i loved the way the models look and the fluff and everything about them, try and find an army that you like, it doesn't have to be a tournament killer


----------



## m3rr3k

I have to agree with Pertoleum. I was stuck between choosing VC and DE purely based on enjoying playing the nasty guys (I already have a chaos 40K army & wanted to branch out). I ended up choosing VC based almost purely on the fact that they're friggen vampires and vampires rock (except the emo vampires in twilight). The other thing that tipped the scales was that as far as I'm concerned, you can take almost any of the other armies models and use them in your VC force - I'm using mordheim & empire models to make my vampires for example... Don't like skeletons? well, use men at arms & say they've been enthralled by the abilities of your 'pire.

Turns out vampires are an army everyone hates because they're easy to make hard. I didn't know that at the time...

The same thing happened to me when I made my 40K list. I knew I wanted a slaaneshi chaos marine list and I knew that I loved the defiler models. I didn't know that lash + templates = win...


----------



## Erie Ed

I don't know my first army was DE and I had a blast with them. Excellent in ranged shooting, and their assassin is absolutely amazing. Of course can't forget about the war hydra pretty good considering how cheap it is.


----------



## Dafistofmork

m3rr3k said:


> I ended up choosing VC based almost purely on the fact that they're friggen vampires and vampires rock (except the emo vampires in twilight).


will not smash in misguided fools head. will not smash in misguided fools head. will not smash in misguided fools head.

joking, joking no offence to you mate.

serriously, there is no "trump card" in fantasy-all armys can win equally, its just that some are easier to win with than others. the "bad" armies are- OG- due to anmosity and low LD, OK-due to lack of ranks and LD, TK- due to high pts cost, instability and many people focus to much on the fighters, not the priests, BoC-no allies due to the seperation of the books (oh, why did HoC/WoC get a "get-u-by" miny army book, but not BoC?).

P.S- i have a feeling that i have missed one, if so point it out would you?


----------



## Vorag of Strigos

every army has its strengths and weaknesses, some armies have even surprised me with some hidden attacks or abilities I have overlooked before, its not the case of choosing the "Best" army, as every army can be the Best, it depends entirely on how you use it,

for example, using 20 dwarf crossbowmen against a slann mage-priest with temple guard escort is a bit stupid. some armies may have a superior spellcaster or the best melee troops, but it also means they may be seriously lacknig in another area.

But, from what I've heard the following armies contain the best criteria for the aspect next to it

Lizardmen - most powerful Spellcasters (Example, venerable lord Kroak)
Tomb kings - No Miscasts, HUGE chariot regiments
Dwarves - Huge variety of S7+ Warmachines with great ranges + Dwarf slayers 
Skaven - one of the best war machines ever (Warp Lightning cannon)
Empire - probably some of the better armoured units in the game
Vampire counts - versitile vampires, plus the abiltiy to raise more troops
Hordes of Chaos - THE best armour ever!
Ogre Kingdoms - probably some of the strongest and toughest troops great spells 
Bretonnia Knights -without a doubt THE best calvary units in the game in my opinion
High elves - good selection of units, very balanced army
wood elves - HUGE selection of units, great movement and ranged abilities

I would strongly reccomend you go with whatever army you feel is right, My vampire counts have won battles and Lost battles against the same armies, its never about what army you have, its about how you use it, however, you may find one army has a distinct lack of ranged units or spellcasters, so go with their strengths, and use your enemies weaknesses to your advantage


----------



## Stuntiesrule

Every army has strengths and weaknesses even a magic heavy VC army can run in to issues vs Dwarfs especially if the person knows you will play magic heavy they just drop a ton of runesmiths for magic and thunderers for anything else you field. I have been on both sides of that game at least once in my life.


----------



## neilbatte

The only army I've ever played against that had auto win written all over it is thankfully no longer legal.
The High elf Sea guard list was wrong in so many ways mostly because you could give every model in your army a bow, there were 2 magic bows that were like bolt throwers and every model could shoot you before the game started from close range.
Thankfully this was before ASF but it was still hard going against a gunline with half your army full of arrows before you even roll for turn.


----------



## HorusReborn

I love the aura of fear the daemon army produces in people! One of the strong points of playing them! As for tough as nails armies, definately the Lizards. I have yet to beat them, but I always play against a seasoned pro who's played only them since they came out! VC give me a good run for my money, but beating them takes strategy... As do all armies, and a little bit o' luck


----------



## Vorag of Strigos

I dislike the debates of "Best army", all armies have their strengths and weaknesses, people find certain armies easier to defeat because their own army has advantage over the others weakness. 

If you want my opinion I have the following written down

Strengths

Vampire counts -feilding largest armies through Spells
Lizardmen - Most powerful spellcasters in the game
Empire - Incredible artillery 
Dwarves - tough troops, easiest way to apply magics ever through runesmiths
Daemons of Chaos - strongest troops in the game (through Demonic gifts)
Skaven - Largest single units in the game
Orcs and Goblins - best melee. without a doubt
Ogre kingdoms - toughest troops in the game
Elves - best ranged units

Disadvantages

Strengths

Vampire counts - Very little ranged units in the game, (dragon breath and banshees)
Lizardmen - spellcasters have low toughness/armour saves, many skirmishers easily picked off individually
Empire - mediocre melee units unless supported by a character
Dwarves - high risk of misfires from war machines with devestating results
Daemons of Chaos - hatred of each others Gods
Skaven - unless joined by a character easily affected by fear 
Orcs and Goblins - Fear elves, mediocre armour saves.
Ogre kingdoms - lack of models, gnoblars easily destroyed
Elves - low toughness

Thats what I've gathered from what I thought, although dice rolls may have been a factor in my calculations

And Also, Im excempt from the fear aura daemons put into others, I love to fight daemons, the only challenging army I have to fight, aside Ogre kingdoms,


----------

