# Breaking news!!, Forge World does WWII



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

news from various sources and found before hand from questing knight



> I just got hold of the new Wargames Illustrated (http://www.wargamesillustrated.net/) from my local newsagent this lunchtime and came across an interesting news item:
> 
> Apparently at the Historical Wargames group held at Warhammer World last month, Warwick Kinrade was demonstrating a new WWII game that Forgeworld are planning to release next year. Apparently it is aimed at 20mm or 15mm rather than 28mm and has a planned release date of "early on" next year. The mechanics are reported as owing nothing to Warhammer.
> 
> No comment about whether figures will accompany the rules, although it sounds unlikely looking at the comment about it being applicable for a couple of (admittedly only slightly) different scales. Could be the first fruits of Warhammer Historical's subsumation within Forgeworld? An interesting rival to FoW?





> The Historical Wargamers Group, in association with Wargames Illustrated, held another successful event at Warhammer World on 24 – 25 October, WAB players from around Europe did battle across several campaign settings and attendees were treated to a bonus surprise appearance when Warwick Kinrade of Forgeworld demonstrated the forthcoming Games Workshop World War II game.
> 
> Warwick ran through a game in which a British Battlegroup stormed a German held position in Normandy circa 1944 – the British sector in Normandy being the focus for the rulebook. The game is designed for 20mm figures although it will work equally well with 15mm (adjustments will be necessary for 28mm). Interestingly the game seemed to owe little to the well-known Warhammer game system.
> 
> The game is still work in progress with a release date of “next year – hopefully early on” planned. The core rulebook will be supported by further supplements, which will include more army lists and (further down the line) more threatres of the war).


sounds interesting, I'm hoping it will be 20mm not 15mm, as otherwise it may feel too much like that rubbish flames of war'hammer', its also allot easier to get terrain, models and tanks for 20mm.

shame its not 28mm though


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

This makes laugh, with one mask on GW stomps its IP all over the place and then puts the other mask on to try and cream a bit from traditional wargames.

I would support GW in either direction, but trying to both sensibly is just silly.


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## Dar'kir (Jul 11, 2009)

how so?? GW has a right to protoct its IP, and there are no rules about creating historical games.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Dar'kir said:


> how so?? GW has a right to protoct its IP, and there are no rules about creating historical games.


:headbutt:

Read my post please, then pose intelligent comment.

Let me clarify for you:

GW spends a lot of time, effort and money trying to sepperate its games from other settings and is protective of its IP. This standpoint seems to be what GW wants to do - which is fine.

However to then come back and make a "classic" setting wargame where it will have no control over the content and will be using standard historic settings just seems a bit two faced to me.

Its a bit like saying "No you absolutely cannot use our IP in your games" and at the same time "But we will gladly try to buy into the general wargames market".

GW has built its little empire on having its own created setting which it fiercly defends and nurtures very well. Good job to them! I like the setting, its why I play with thier plastic space men and not some generic space fantasy setting.

There is nothing legally or morally wrong with this, but I get a kinda uncomfortable feeling about it, a bit like when LotR miniatures turned up - I felt "yes nice to see a LotR game" but at the same time it just didnt feel good in a GW store.


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## reubiedoo (Mar 21, 2009)

Why would anyone want to play as Nazi's? Bizarre.

I've never understood why people want to play war games when that war's actual combatants are alive/ in living memory. It seems a trifle disrespectful to the efforts and sacrifice of those men to trivialise it while they breathe.

Would sadden me a little to se GW/FW do it - though it appears to be happening.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

reubiedoo said:


> Why would anyone want to play as Nazi's? Bizarre.
> 
> I've never understood why people want to play war games when that war's actual combatants are alive/ in living memory. It seems a trifle disrespectful to the efforts and sacrifice of those men to trivialise it while they breathe.
> 
> Would sadden me a little to se GW/FW do it - though it appears to be happening.


technically playing any wargame trivializes war, even warhammer turns war into a game, yes its fictional, but its still making war a game.

and please don't just call the entire german army Nazi's, pick up a book and read it, its not as black and white as playing nazi's, otherwise your calling Erwin Rommel who was a great great man a Nazi.


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## reubiedoo (Mar 21, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> technically playing any wargame trivializes war, even warhammer turns war into a game, yes its fictional, but its still making war a game.


I agree with you. Though since no Space Marines live near me I don't find it inappropriate to laugh when they get mown down.

I don't think there is any technicality to trivialisation. I think you mean principally.


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## reubiedoo (Mar 21, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> and please don't just call the entire german army Nazi's, pick up a book and read it, its not as black and white as playing nazi's, otherwise your calling Erwin Rommel who was a great great man a Nazi.


I didn't call the whole army Nazi's. The two quite obviously aren't mutually exclusive though, and if you are painting Swastikas on your models - what - are you going to say "well all my Germans are totally disillusioned with Nazism and didn't swear an oath to the Fuhrer personally." Oh wait, all German soldiers did that.

Secondly, I have a pretty perfect A in History A-level (guess what four of the six modules were on), and a friend with a Masters in history who says I have a better knowledge of History than anyone he met outside uni. And he came second in the year.
So bog off telling me to read a book. I know what i'm talking about.

Now feel free to make any catty remarks about this you want, because it's your thread, and you obviously hold very clear opinions.
Just don't use them to justify turning the sacrifice and endurance of great men - my grandfather included - still alive or dear to the memory of many, into a commercial enterprise.

This, and 40k, are not the same.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I personally think that you should be able to laugh at anything or nothing. There are very very few things that it's impossible to laugh about.

Case in hand, everyone forever saying that the Holocaust was tragic, and yet celebrating Thanksgiving, which is more or less a marker for the extinction of the Native American culture. I find that funny, if somewhat tragic.

Although shouting "Die, blasted Xenos!!!" in your garage will probably get you less visits from the police than "Die, blasted Nazis!!!" hence I prefer Warhammer to Historical recreation. :grin:

On topic: Meh. I think the reason people play GW systems is because they are not interested in Historical gaming, so capturing both markets is a bit of a stretch.


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## reubiedoo (Mar 21, 2009)

I want to apologise. This thread was about a game and system, and I took it off topic with morality.

I will restrict my comments forthwith.


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## the.alleycat.uk (Jun 11, 2009)

reubiedoo said:


> I want to apologise. This thread was about a game and system, and I took it off topic with morality.
> 
> I will restrict my comments forthwith.


Without continuing the derailment, A few years ago I would have totally agreed with you. I couldn't fathom why people would play as germany since WWII is still within living memory.

Even more than that, I really couldn't understand why some friends [good people all] would go to LRP/recreation events and actually play as germans in uniform etc. Just didn't compute.

A few years on, and knowing and understanding more than I did; I think it's about a certain degree of curiosity and understanding. It's because it was such a big deal, because it is such a significant episode in our history, some folks wish to know more and understand more about what was involved. Living history if you will.

Thats my current opinion/understanding anyways.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

"who would want to play as Nazi's?"

Don't people play as them on CoD?

I agree with Stella, this is (and will be) a game, anyone who takes the Political Correctness line needs to fuck off.


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## primeministersinsiter (May 31, 2009)

In other news: Forge World is doing stuff. See OP.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Olny down side i can see is that because FW are doing it it will cost the earth to play, Would have prefered GW itself to do it all in plastic, after all they dont have to design anything they just have to CAD it up and produce it in plastic. Hell i could see this being a 4th core game given the right backing and promotion.

And for the record i would be willing to play the Nazi Germans, not sure what people are so afraid of, they had an idea, it was wrong, they got spanked by our brave men and women for it.


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## wombat_tree (Nov 30, 2008)

Well getting the thread back on topic I agree with Bits and Kits in that Forge world will make it easily twice as expensive as regular Warhammer and of course we all know that warhammer is a very cheap game.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I'd be more interested in the rules than figures, getting 1:72 (20mm) figures is easy and cheap at prices like £5 for 48 infantry from airfix, and 2 tanks for £7 from HaT (I think its HaT), but a interesting simple but effective ruleset would be useful.

and it won't matter that there not FW models really, cus GW would never let you play it in store anyway, I'd be certain of it.


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## jams (Sep 19, 2009)

it depends on the core rules set. it may be squad orientated so you might only need 10-20 models per side which could make it affordable if FW only. i'd quite like to see something like the battle of britain with rules like aeronautica imperialis


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Personally I find that aerial combat translates quite poorly to a turn-based 2D board game. A squad-level thing could be pretty interesting, as could a 20mm game with platoons and tanks running around.

I do find this all a bit odd though. For a start, Forge world makes models primarily, not rules. Many, many people make 20mm models already that cost a fraction of what FW's ones would, and there's nothing much they could do to prevent us using them instead. 

Also, GW games use a fantasy ruleset that basically wouldn't be very realistic if applied to a real-world historical system for which we have documentary evidence. They will either have an innacurate ruleset or one that is very different to the other stuff that they do. An accurate representation of something like a tiger tank would be a lot more powerful than a leman russ, for example, which would be a bit odd. I don't really see who the market is for this or where their profit comes from.


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

Diversity is the spice of life and although I would rather Forgeworld were concentrating their efforts into 40k (for the purely selfish reason of getting more toys) I think it is positive.

Games Workshop are the biggest wargames company on the planet, and if Forgeworld dip their toes into WWII wargames it will open up the genre (and other historical wargames) to many gamers whose experience would have previously only been GW's universes.

When I worked for GW I got to meet some of the designers and was impressed by their dedication to wargaming in general (I've seen GW "celebs" playing historical games in Warhammer world on gaming night). 
Let them play (in the "let us make stuff for other systems" sense), the more they remember their love for the hobby in general the less like a boring corporate entity they'll become.


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