# Horus Heresy: Master of Mankind



## Angel of Blood

From his blog...


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## Mellow_

I'm presuming this book will be based around The Imperial Webway project with some Daemon fighting fun thrown in. Usually such stories would come with a bit of pre-Magnus door knocking whilst everything is going "just as planned" and then the horrendous turn of events where that ever special red haired son turns up and nerfs the whole setup causing much confusion and delay. 

I also have fingers crossed for some form of 30k Eldar intervention but this is HH and no one trusts those filthy Xenos anyway, right?!


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## Old Man78

I may get this when it lands as a paper back, it may rekindle my enthusiasm for the franchise, maybe


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## MontytheMighty

Oldman78 said:


> I may get this when it lands as a paper back, it may rekindle my enthusiasm for the franchise, maybe


How could it not


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## ntaw

MontytheMighty said:


> How could it not


Oh my, that's loaded question.

This book is gunna be a definite read for me.


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## Captain_Loken

He is on Bolter and Chainsword... he posts in the Black Library thread a ton... 

He posted this spoiler and I was impressed. 

I would love to get back to some HH. Vengeful Spirit was really the only other book I was interested in.


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## Loli

ntaw said:


> Oh my, that's loaded question.
> 
> This book is gunna be a definite read for me.


This, QFT.


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## MontytheMighty

Abnett, Wraight, Bowden...only BL authours I read nowadays

ADB is arguably the best out of these 3...though I really like the work of the other two as well. I thought Scars was fantastic.

Anyway...it's ADB, it has the Emperor, the Custodes, and a major Blood Angels character. Can't wait


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## Angel of Blood

MontytheMighty said:


> and a major Blood Angels character. Can't wait


I want it so bad for that reason alone. Of all the Legions, they've had the fewest and worst portrayals so far in the series. I desperately want a full Legion novel of them from one of the big three you just mentioned.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown

Angel of Blood said:


> I want it so bad for that reason alone. Of all the Legions, they've had the fewest and worst portrayals so far in the series. I desperately want a full Legion novel of them from one of the big three you just mentioned.


Oh, man. Then I have some bad news for you, AoB! Master of Mankind changed and shifted from those plans a few years back, and the main character is a Custodian.

I'll lay wreaths at the altar of your hopes and dreams, with many apologies.


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## Haskanael

really looking forward to this novel, can't wait.


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## Malus Darkblade

So the Blood Angels are still stuck with he who shan't be named.



"The first thing that tried to kill Kano had a lumen-post for a spine, and a torso and limbs fashioned out of broken highway signs, beheaded traffic signals and other less identifiable pieces of metal debris. 

It was not a battle robot, for Kano had fought with automata in the training cages and during the year-long Rust Moon War; this thing was animated by some impossible force outside his reckoning. His instinct told him it was powered by anger, and that seemed enough understanding for the moment.

The scrap-thing assailed with fingers made from the spokes of a wheel, fat yellow sparks jetting up from the ground where they dragged and slashed. From gaping trash-bin mouths it spat broken screw-bolts and scattershot fragments of wreckage, all of it heated to orange-white. 

Kano defaulted to impulse and aimed for the centre of the mass, blasting it back into its parts with a powerful three-round burst. Pieces of it clattered down around him, but they did not lie still. 

Twisted lengths of metal snaked towards one another, tips finding other tips, bending and braiding, making anew. He spun away. 

From the corner of his eye, the Blood Angel saw something tumbling out of the sky, trailing smoke – Kaide’s drone had been shot down, killing their best tactical advantage." 


KEK


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## Vitarus

A Custodian will be excellent!


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## Angel of Blood

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Oh, man. Then I have some bad news for you, AoB! Master of Mankind changed and shifted from those plans a few years back, and the main character is a Custodian.
> 
> I'll lay wreaths at the altar of your hopes and dreams, with many apologies.












Ah well. I'll continue to wait. Someday!!!

Is my favourite Custodian Amon going to make an appearance at least? I'm not quite sure why I like that guy so much, just like it when he pops up in the odd novel here and there.


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## Lord of the Night

Malus Darkblade said:


> KEK


Love that scene.



Angel of Blood said:


> Is my favourite Custodian Amon going to make an appearance at least? I'm not quite sure why I like that guy so much, just like it when he pops up in the odd novel here and there.


The only two Custodian characters of note, apart from the squad in The First Heretic, are Valdor and Amon. And Valdor is a dick. So I kinda get why people like Amon, he's a Custodian but he's also cool.


LotN


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## piemelke

Malus Darkblade said:


> KEK


after reading this extract I finally understand where they got the inspiration for road to jove 


(this is an attempt to be funny)


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## MontytheMighty

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Oh, man. Then I have some bad news for you, AoB! Master of Mankind changed and shifted from those plans a few years back, and the main character is a Custodian.
> 
> I'll lay wreaths at the altar of your hopes and dreams, with many apologies.


That's still cool...but still I am sad


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## Brother Lucian

Interesting, I wonder if its Amon, they have kinda built him up.

Iddle speculation: Due to Magnus' interest in Amon, Ive started to wonder if he is the one fated to die at Horus' hands to ensure the Emperor kills his errant son.


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## Mellow_

Lord of the Night said:


> Love that scene.
> 
> 
> The only two Custodian characters of note, apart from the squad in The First Heretic, are Valdor and Amon. And Valdor is a dick. So I kinda get why people like Amon, he's a Custodian but he's also cool.
> 
> 
> LotN


Valdor is the one in charge of the Custodians, right?

The problem is, the Custodians were shown to be "amazing" one on one, but then nearly every named Traitor Astartes appears to be able to nerf them easily. It's all a bit annoying really.


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## Lord of the Night

Mellow_ said:


> Valdor is the one in charge of the Custodians, right?
> 
> The problem is, the Custodians were shown to be "amazing" one on one, but then nearly every named Traitor Astartes appears to be able to nerf them easily. It's all a bit annoying really.


Yeah he is.

Not really. One Custodian killed multiple Word Bearers Chapter Masters, Masters of Sanctity and Captains on his own before being killed by Lorgar.


LotN


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## Malus Darkblade

Don't forget when one killed several daemon-possessed Word Bearers.


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## Angel of Blood

Brother Lucian said:


> Interesting, I wonder if its Amon, they have kinda built him up.
> 
> Iddle speculation: Due to Magnus' interest in Amon, Ive started to wonder if he is the one fated to die at Horus' hands to ensure the Emperor kills his errant son.


I always wondered when he was introduced if he may be the one. He is so far, the only recurring Custodian, alongside Haedo and Valdor himself. Haedo not having as much screen time and Valdor known to have survived.



Mellow_ said:


> Valdor is the one in charge of the Custodians, right?
> 
> The problem is, the Custodians were shown to be "amazing" one on one, but then nearly every named Traitor Astartes appears to be able to nerf them easily. It's all a bit annoying really.


As others have said. Vendetha absolutely carves his way through quite a few Word Bearers before being stopped. 



Lord of the Night said:


> Yeah he is.
> 
> Not really. One Custodian killed multiple Word Bearers Chapter Masters, Masters of Sanctity and Captains on his own before being killed by Lorgar.
> 
> 
> LotN


He's killed by Xathen and Argel Tal IIRC. Xathen shoots him in the head and Argel Tal then throws one of his swords into him. He was all set to shoot Lorgar with his weapon, again IIRC.



Malus Darkblade said:


> Don't forget when one killed several daemon-possessed Word Bearers.


Sythran always had one of the best. Hurling his Guardian Spear into Xathen and then finally speaking "I always hated you Xathen". Bad. Ass.


I can't remember which book it is, but Valdor is described as being something like a machine, and animal on Prospero, tearing through any Thousand Son that got in his way.


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## Lord of the Night

AoB makes good points. In fact the only two Custodians that have died easily, relatively speaking, are Khorarinn from the _Sword of Truth_ audio and whichever of the Custodians was gunned down by Incarnadine in _The First Heretic_, and in the latter's case it's understandable since he was completely blindsided and caught totally off-guard at close range by a battle-robot with two chainguns for arms.

And Khorarinn was also ambushed from behind by multiple Astartes, whom he had judged trustworthy, and cut down by massed bolter fire. And he still took down several of them before he died.


LotN


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## Captain_Loken

Just curious, but what's so great about the loyalists?

All this hubbub about killing 'traitor' Legionnaires, but I'm just wondering what's so great about them?

This book looks great and all, but don't you think they played out the loyalist story lines a long time ago?


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## Angel of Blood

Captain_Loken said:


> Just curious, but what's so great about the loyalists?
> 
> All this hubbub about killing 'traitor' Legionnaires, but I'm just wondering what's so great about them?
> 
> This book looks great and all, but don't you think they played out the loyalist story lines a long time ago?


Huh?


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## MontytheMighty

Lord of the Night said:


> Yeah he is.
> 
> Not really. One Custodian killed multiple Word Bearers Chapter Masters, Masters of Sanctity and Captains on his own before being killed by Lorgar.
> 
> 
> LotN


???

IIRC ... Vendatha kills 3 ... he then gets headshotted by a marine. Which incident do you have in mind?

I wouln't really call 3 many or quite a few


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## Angel of Blood

MontytheMighty said:


> ???
> 
> IIRC ... Vendatha kills 3 ... he then gets headshotted by a marine. Which incident do you have in mind?
> 
> I wouln't really call 3 many or quite a few


Yeah it was only three. The Chapter Master, a Captain and his Chaplain. It should be noted though that he killed all three of them in three seconds.


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## MontytheMighty

Angel of Blood said:


> Yeah it was only three. The Chapter Master, a Captain and his Chaplain. It should be noted though that he killed all three of them in three seconds.


Yeah...impressive...but he also has the advantage of initiative, none of the three guys had weapons raised. They had to react to a sudden attack


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## Angel of Blood

MontytheMighty said:


> Yeah...impressive...but he also has the advantage of initiative, none of the three guys had weapons raised. They had to react to a sudden attack


I dunno. If he had attacked instantly, before trying to summon the others, then I would give them that. But after he and they realised his beacon had been blocked, they all drew their weapons and must have known he was going to attack. And even if they didn't, carving through three of them in as many seconds is just absurdly good. These are astartes, they're meant to have superhuman reflexes, yet only one of them even had time to actually pull the trigger on weapon, Vendatha killed them that quickly.


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## MontytheMighty

I recall the first guy to die was killed as he started to raise his weapon...been a while since reading. The implication is that they weren't fully on guard

What the Custodian does is impressive...but there are two points to bear in mind:
1. He isn't an average Custodian. He's an elite Custodian killing elite/semi-elite marines
2. To put things in perspective, some marines have wrecked a lot more than 3 enemy marines and survived


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## Malus Darkblade

MontytheMighty said:


> Yeah...impressive...but he also has the advantage of initiative, none of the three guys had weapons raised. They had to react to a sudden attack


From Know No Fear




The Word Bearer is almost unrecognisable. For a nanosecond, the figure registers to Luciel as an unknown, a threat.

*Transhuman responses are already there, unbidden. Adrenaline spikes to heighten an already formidable reaction time. Muscle remembers. Luciel wears his boltgun, an oiled black pit bull of a weapon, in his thigh holster. He can draw, aim and fire in less than a second. The range is six metres, the target unobstructed. There is no chance of missing.* 

Maximus plate, frontally augmented, might stop a mass-reactive shell, so Luciel will fire two and aim for the visor slits. The airgate skin-sleeve is self-repairing, and will survive las-fire damage, but a bolter shot will shred it open, so Luciel also braces for the explosive decompression of a ricochet or a miss-hit. At a simple, subconscious neural urge, boot-sole electromagnets charge to clamp onto the deck plates.

Luciel thinks theoretical, but of course there is no theoretical. There is no tactical precedent for a Space Marine to fight a Space Marine. The idea is nonsense. He thinks practical, and that directs him to the visor slits. 

He can make a clean kill headshot in less than a second and a half, two rounds for kill insurance, and probably protect the atmospheric integrity of the airgate.

*All this, all this decided, unbidden, instinctive, in less than a nanosecond*
*-------------
*The goblet falls from Luciel’s grip. His hand is already moving, through instinct alone, for his sidearm. Only *sheer, disfunctioning shock is slowing him down.*
Tchure’s plasma pistol is already in his hand.

The goblet hasn’t even hit the tabletop yet.

Tchure fires. Point blank, the plasma bolt strikes Honorius Luciel’s torso


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## MontytheMighty

Malus Darkblade said:


> From Know No Fear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Word Bearer is almost unrecognisable. For a nanosecond, the figure registers to Luciel as an unknown, a threat.
> 
> *Transhuman responses are already there, unbidden. Adrenaline spikes to heighten an already formidable reaction time. Muscle remembers. Luciel wears his boltgun, an oiled black pit bull of a weapon, in his thigh holster. He can draw, aim and fire in less than a second. The range is six metres, the target unobstructed. There is no chance of missing.*
> 
> Maximus plate, frontally augmented, might stop a mass-reactive shell, so Luciel will fire two and aim for the visor slits. The airgate skin-sleeve is self-repairing, and will survive las-fire damage, but a bolter shot will shred it open, so Luciel also braces for the explosive decompression of a ricochet or a miss-hit. At a simple, subconscious neural urge, boot-sole electromagnets charge to clamp onto the deck plates.
> 
> Luciel thinks theoretical, but of course there is no theoretical. There is no tactical precedent for a Space Marine to fight a Space Marine. The idea is nonsense. He thinks practical, and that directs him to the visor slits.
> 
> He can make a clean kill headshot in less than a second and a half, two rounds for kill insurance, and probably protect the atmospheric integrity of the airgate.
> 
> *All this, all this decided, unbidden, instinctive, in less than a nanosecond*
> *-------------
> *The goblet falls from Luciel’s grip. His hand is already moving, through instinct alone, for his sidearm. Only *sheer, disfunctioning shock is slowing him down.*
> Tchure’s plasma pistol is already in his hand.
> 
> The goblet hasn’t even hit the tabletop yet.
> 
> Tchure fires. Point blank, the plasma bolt strikes Honorius Luciel’s torso


What's ur point?

Astartes and Custodes are both transhumans. 

The transhuman who initiates enjoys an advantage over the transhuman who has to react. The reactive party starts moving after the agressor.


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## forkmaster

I passed by on his blog a mention of a short BA-story prequel to MoM which is called Blood in the Water, will that still happen or is it scrambled?


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## Malus Darkblade

MontytheMighty said:


> What's ur point?
> 
> Astartes and Custodes are both transhumans.
> 
> The transhuman who initiates enjoys an advantage over the transhuman who has to react. The reactive party starts moving after the agressor.




In the quote, it states the Ultramarine was only hindered by the surprise that a Word Bearer was about to kill him.

In The First Heretic, the Word Bearers were not surprised. They knew the intent of the Custodian the moment he aimed his weapon at Lorgar. Even way before this took place, the Word Bearers were planning to kill him at some point. 

The Custodians didn't even think of the possibility that they would have to gun down the Word Bearers for sinning against the Emperor/Imperium.

Meaning the Custodian moved much faster than the Word Bearers.


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## MontytheMighty

Malus Darkblade said:


> In the quote, it states the Ultramarine was only hindered by the surprise that a Word Bearer was about to kill him.
> 
> In The First Heretic, the Word Bearers were not surprised. They knew the intent of the Custodian the moment he aimed his weapon at Lorgar. Even way before this took place, the Word Bearers were planning to kill him at some point.
> 
> The Custodians didn't even think of the possibility that they would have to gun down the Word Bearers for sinning against the Emperor/Imperium.
> 
> Meaning the Custodian moved much faster than the Word Bearers.


I could be misremembering this but I am pretty sure I am not...

The chapter master was first to die and he died as he was raising his bolter in response to Vendatha's attack. Again, he was reacting and Vendatha was initiating.

Despite the tension in the air, the Word Bearers had not adopted combat postures in response to the Custodian's threats. They only reacted after the Custodian's attack...which gave the Custodian the advantage of initiative on top of whatever other advantages the Custodian had


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## Malus Darkblade

You seem to be under the impression that anyone who initiates first is guaranteed a victory. If that were the case martial arts/self-defense would not be a thing. The Istvaan massacre would have been over in twenty minutes. Also the extract above states everything in it happened on the nanosecond level. So it would be next to impossible to surprise a Space Marine unless you were much, much faster.


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## hailene

I think this could be solved if people re-read the passage.

Remember, it took 3 seconds to accomplish it. From firing his guardian spear (which Argel Tal blocked all three shots) to killing the three Word Bearers. I think the key point is that it took three seconds...plenty of time for an Astartes to react, given the quote from _Know No Fear_, which the Ultramarine said he needed but a single second.

Also the weapons were raised and drawn well before (er, at least 20 seconds) before any combat.

When Ven tries to press his teleport button...

"Vendatha ignored the captain’s plea. He reached for the scrollwork etched into his ornate bracer, and pushed one of the mother-of-pearl buttons inlaid in the decoration.
Nothing happened.
He pressed the button again.
Nothing continued to happen.
The Custodian took a step backwards *as the Word Bearers very, very slowly drew their weapons. The Chaplains unlimbered their crozius mauls. Tsar Quorel and Deumos raised their bolters, and Argel Tal unsheathed the swords of red iron.*"

The Word Bearers were ready. Even the bolters were out AND up.

Ven is a badass.


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## MontytheMighty

Malus Darkblade said:


> You seem to be under the impression that anyone who initiates first is guaranteed a victory. If that were the case martial arts/self-defense would not be a thing. The Istvaan massacre would have been over in twenty minutes. Also the extract above states everything in it happened on the nanosecond level. So it would be next to impossible to surprise a Space Marine unless you were much, much faster.


Initiation is an advantage...not a guarantee of victory. That advantage may be no more than moving a split second before the reacting party does...but in combat, it does matter, or are you disputing that?


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## Mellow_

Well, Mr ADB has announced he's 50% through this. Praise be to the God Emperor!


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## Mellow_

... along with a picture of a character that features in the Novel.

Excited.


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## Angel of Blood

Mellow_ said:


> ... along with a picture of a character that features in the Novel.
> 
> Excited.


He has?

Ahhh yes. For those interested..


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## forkmaster

Angel of Blood said:


> He has?
> 
> Ahhh yes. For those interested..


Yeah I believe that is Amendera Kendel and all her dialogue is finished in the novel according to some sources! :grin:


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## Mellow_

If the author has said "the words for this character are done" then fine, personally depending on the _sauce_ of rumours they need to be taken with a pinch of salt.


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## Angel of Blood

Mellow_ said:


> If the author has said "the words for this character are done" then fine, personally depending on the _sauce_ of rumours they need to be taken with a pinch of salt.


I think you may have to go read up on who she is...


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## Khorne's Fist

Yeah, as cool a character as she is, I don't think her dialogue was a huge challenge.


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## Mellow_

She ... dies? In a minor fight with some minor Daemon in a minor location?

Right? ;-)


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## Brother Lucian

The silent sisterhood does have a complex sign language. Which their unitiated sisters interprets, acting as their speakers.


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## Mob

I knew I should have copied that quote about people being literal.


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## forkmaster

Mellow_ said:


> If the author has said "the words for this character are done" then fine, personally depending on the _sauce_ of rumours they need to be taken with a pinch of salt.





Khorne's Fist said:


> Yeah, as cool a character as she is, I don't think her dialogue was a huge challenge.





Brother Lucian said:


> The silent sisterhood does have a complex sign language. Which their unitiated sisters interprets, acting as their speakers.


She doesn't speak, that is the...







Mellow_ said:


> She ... dies? In a minor fight with some minor Daemon in a minor location?
> 
> Right? ;-)


See previous answer!


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## Khorne's Fist

Thanks forkmaster, but I think we all got it. Well, maybe except for Brother Lucian. We were just being sarcastic, or playing along with the joke.


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## Anakwanar

Sardonic, lol. But they indeed speak - then fighting with orgasm :biggrin:


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## forkmaster

Khorne's Fist said:


> Thanks forkmaster, but I think we all got it. Well, maybe except for Brother Lucian. We were just being sarcastic, or playing along with the joke.


Yes it was only aimed at him. I just added you in the bunch because you got the joke! ^^


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## Dead.Blue.Clown

forkmaster said:


> Yeah I believe that is Amendera Kendel and all her dialogue is finished in the novel according to some sources! :grin:


Definitely not Kendel.


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## Mellow_

@adembskibowden: "And yet there is one sin far greater than betrayal, Ra. Failure."

-- The Emperor of Mankind.

Is he talking to someone called "Ra" ?

That's an Egyptian sun God, so I'm guessing not!


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## Angel of Blood

Maugan Ra? He is/was working on building a human webway after all.

It's a stretch sure. Fun theory though.


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## Mellow_

Wouldn't that be entertaining. The Emperor of Mankind having a chat with a Phoenix Lord. 

Surely that is about as likely as flying pigs!


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