# The Emperor. A perpetual (vulkan lives spoilers)



## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

--- Vulkan lives spoilers below ---

So when john gram is discussing Vulkan's immortality, he name-drops the emperor, another perpetual. 

What i was wondering, is whether it was already assumed knowledge that he was a perpetual, and not just god-like 'immortal'. I state them as different things because perpetuals can be physically killed, they just reanimate soon after (e.g. john and vulkan). 

So if it is the case that the emperor is a perpetual deferring to the definition that if slain he can reanimate, i come to the following long winded assumptions

- if he knew he was going to die at the battle of terra, did he give up his chance at reanimation by being wired into the throne? was it so dire that he sit in it immediately to hold back chaos spilling through and light the astronomicon ? did he give up his chance at re animation to his full self
OR
is the wishy washy games workshop explanation that he is a "one time immortal", someone who doesn't come back, but via a technicality can be killed by "god weapons" or "god-like forces" (loop hole in immortality)

my reasoning/ideas are a bit convoluted, i apologise. Just wanted some other people's thoughts on how labelling the emperor as a perpetual changes (if at all) his "status" as immortal, enough to warrant revised conclusions about his shitty gig on the throne for eternity (rather than re animating after a death)

End of ramblings


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Would be kinda sadly amusing if it turns out the Emperor did not order himself to be interred on the golden throne, but ended up there screaming for eternity and wishing for death that he might be reborn at last.


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

Brother Lucian said:


> Would be kinda sadly amusing if it turns out the Emperor did not order himself to be interred on the golden throne, but ended up there screaming for eternity and wishing for death that he might be reborn at last.


sadly i think its something GW will never end up explaining ... i mean, maybe the galaxy was ripping apart during the siege (highly likely, all the demon princes and demonhosts running about) and he HAD TO get into the chair straight away... robbing him of time to reincarnate


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

So, my two cents are this: one time the light from the Astoromican flickered and a load of ships were lost in the warp. So if it went out, even for a few minutes, the casualties would be astronomical. Plus, since Magnus broke the Webway, daemons are trying to pour into Terra and the only thing holding them back is The Emperor. 

So, whilst the Emperor could, in theory die and then reanimate a few minutes later, in those few minutes, daemons would have swarmed Terra and the Emperor might never be able to reclaim it, probably every Imperial ship in the warp would be dead or dying. Then there may well be other things that the Emperor prevents happening that would happen causing more death and terror for the Imperium. So he can, but perhaps he feels the cost would be to high? Just my thoughts.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

It's stated in various books that all perpetuals are different. Some will reanimate themselves, some need it done for them. Some will live forever if nothing kills them, others just can't be killed at all. 

If he was going to reanimate, I'm sure the Emperor would have done so rather than be interred on the Golden Toilet, no matter the cost to whoever is in the warp. Because of this I'm leaning towards him being immortal, but killable.


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## Emperors finest (Oct 16, 2013)

I agree that the emperor could no submitt to being allowed to die at the time of him sustaining his injuries from Horus
with the gods of Chaos acting the way they were it would of spelt doom for all of the loyalists and the imperium
I think that his a perpetual however and needs to be completely vanquished in order to respawn


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## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

Also, the Emperor knew that Guilliman, The Lion, and Russ were on their way to Terra. So if he died in order to reanimate the three of them and their legions would have died in the warp. I would rule that as a greater loss to the Imperium than the Emperor being forced to stay on the Golden Throne.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

That made no sense. Also, the Emperor accepted Horus' gambit and teleported onto the Vengeful Spirit in order to end the Heresy as it looked hopeless. Horus did it because he knew he couldnt win without a drastic move before the reinforcements arrived, luring the Emperor on board before the loyalists knew about the incomming fleets.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

I agree with Khorne's Fist. There is no strict definition of a 'perpetual'.



Brother Lucian said:


> That made no sense. Also, the Emperor accepted Horus' gambit and teleported onto the Vengeful Spirit in order to end the Heresy as it looked hopeless. Horus did it because he knew he couldnt win without a drastic move before the reinforcements arrived, luring the Emperor on board before the loyalists knew about the incomming fleets.


The Collected Visions actually states that the Emperor was aware of the en route Imperial reinforcements before he attacked the Vengeful Spirit.


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

I cannot dismiss the feeling that this whole perpetual/cabal backstory is going to end into some lore screw up of titanical proportions.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Romanov77 said:


> I cannot dismiss the feeling that this whole perpetual/cabal backstory is going to end into some lore screw up of titanical proportions.


Before _Vulkan Lives_ and _The Unremembered Empire_ I was excited about the potential of the perpetual sub-plot, now I'm not so sure.


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## Chaplain-Grimaldus (Aug 4, 2013)

Bear in mind. People were crying that Oll was a human who took a hit for the big E but now being a perpetual this is less of a sacrifice.

Unremembered just showed us that a perpetual can become human again. Making Oll's future sacrifice even greater.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Before Vulkan Lives and The Unremembered Empire I was excited about the potential of the perpetual sub-plot, now I'm not so sure.


Same here. I even gushed about the possibilities of it to Abnett himself at the BL Dublin event. 

Then they let Kyme near it.


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

I liked the idea of perpetuals, and i can even understand writers wanting to make god weapons to kill immortals, it making the reading exciting. 

but "different types of perpetuals" just seems like something they have made up so that its easier to fit any explanation about immortality loopholes throughout the story. 

assuming the emperor is like grammaticus - 
If the chaos gods knew this, was the plan just to kill the emperor "once", and then during his respawn time all hell would pour through the warp, and by the time he got back it would be too late? so many questions ... 

but then again, maybe the emperor sitting on the throne was the better outcome for chaos? the cabal certainly wanted horus to win so that chaos didnt get the run from fighting humanity for 10000 years ...


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## CJay (Aug 25, 2010)

Because of this whole perpetual thing, I am considering never reading another Black Library novel ever. It is starting to make no sense.


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

Afterall, like many things in the Wh4k lore, we can safely pretend that it never happened. 

Just like I do with the new Necron lore and the new "Space Marines inside Space Marines" figurines. 

Still pisses me off, though.


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## Kaminsky (Oct 22, 2011)

I think that for the heretics, the whole point of hunting for old and mysterious weapons is in fact about having something powerful enough to kill the Emperor. The leaders of the rebellion must know that the Emperor is a perpetual and cannot be killed with "standard" weapons, but they also know that there are weapons capable of killing such individuals, one of which is introduced in Vulkan Lives. The fact that Erebus helps John Grammaticus to get away, knowing (and probably hoping) that he will kill Vulkan with the Fulgurite shows that the Heretics know about the perpetuals, and know how to kill them. 

So, to get back to the subject, I think that during the duel, the Emperor was wounded mortally by Horus with such a weapon, and that the only option left to the loyalists was to sit Him on the Golden Throne, knowing that his inevitable death would tear the Imperium appart as sure as any Heresy. This would stick to the story even if the Emperor wasn't a perpetual, but "only" an immortal. I don't really believe in him getting up from his Throne, because if he could have recovered from his wounds he would have been able to do it a number of times during his travel from Horus' flagship to the Golden Throne. 

And if I remember well, his immortality is mentionned in an older book of the series (A Thousand Sons or The Outcast Dead).


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## Bullitt (Sep 21, 2011)

Who's to say the Emperor knows what type of perpetual he is? Unless he has died and come back before, then how would he know? This may explain his choice to be placed on the throne. Add in the imperial forces in the warp and the demons at the gates. How could he take the risk?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Or the Emperor knew he would regenerate from his wounds with Horus, and was anticipating on that happening. However someone, or something else persuaded the primarchs and or imperial government to put him into the golden throne.

Maybe someone didn't want the Emperor coming back to life, they didn't want him to regenerate as he would have. I believe the Golden Throne is deliberately keeping the Emperor from regenerating, and or reincarnating. 

After all while playing chess the Emperor was moving chess pieces, which interestingly enough were very accurate to what happened throughout the horus heresy. Prior to Istvaan the Emperor stated while playing that he had to sacrifice one of his "Knights" in order to test/inspire the loyalty of his other pieces, this knight I believe to be symbolic for ferrus manus during the Istvaan event. 

Furthermore towards the end of the game he notices that he is unable to take the opposing king piece, thus he states that the best option in this case is to simply reset the board back to turn 1. I believe this meant he was anticipating on killing Horus, being horribly injured from doing so but regenerating after doing so (thus turning the game to turn 1).

However the golden throne prevented him from doing that


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