# What is GW thinking?



## thefallen (Sep 21, 2011)

I was talking to my friend/lgs owner about the state of affairs with regards to GW. He told me of long conversation he had with his GW sales rep that some may find interesting and others,like myself may find insulting. Im quoting from his post on the lgs forum. ” Had a long, interesting convo withmyGW rep today. It was prettyinsightful.

Here are some notes, in no particular order...

-GW is not concerning themselves with game balance or competitive play in any respect.

-GW is totally fine with TOs tweaking the rules to create a more balanced game in / for tournament settings. [Lots of talk about how GW tried the tournament scene and how independent TOs do a much,much better job. They'd rather lett he TOs run events and tweak the rules to create game balance in a tournament / competitive setting.]

-Supplements aren't designed with game balance in mind. They are designed with fun / cool in mind. [He sighted FoB and what they did with the Escalation rules many, many times over the ~hour long convo.]

-Expect to see more movement towards giving players the opportunity touse the models they own in games of 40k.

-GW has no PR department. There will be no official announcement about any of this stuff or any article in WD. They'd like people like me to communicate this sort of thing and "steer" the community in whatever direction we'd like based on it.

-While the stock did drop 25% overnight, based on that report,he went onat length about how GW is a dividend company and is still going to be paying out it's dividends. Something about how 4 people own almost all of GW (stock), how profits on the whole are down (duh) but profit per dollar spent is way up (also duh). Blah Blah, this means little.

-Weekly releases, which most of us knew about.

-Weekly WD starting in Feb.

-Monthly230+page magazine.

-The people that write the rules often don't remember what they write.[Spoke about convos he's had or been involved in with writers or stories he's heard. Mentioned one instance of a guy asking one of the writers about a rule he wrote and the writer responded with something like, "yeah,that sounds cool. why don't you guys play it that way from now on."]

-Costs increase. They are not targeting everyone. They "are not going to open a GW store in Compton."

-They recognize they have priced new or potential players out of their games and plan to "address it."

-The term "gray beards" was used to compare GW gamers to model train guys. An older, wealthier, group that doesn't see a ton of new people entering the hobby.

-They view the ~$200 startup cost as something that will provide the average person with a month's worth of"entertainment," comparable to roughly 3 video games.

-The rep dislikes the fact that people that are not qualified to write articles on GWs financial situation, policies, or direction often write articles on the internet that people take as gospel.

-They want to sell models based on coolness factor, not on price tag. Cited an example where they reduced the price of WHFB cavalry models to 25 bucks (from 45) and there was absolutely no change involume. (which,tobe fair,ISa valid point. when it comes to lots of model miniatures, if people want it, they're going to buy it. at some point everyone will begin to consider price, but that number is different from person to person.)

There might be some more, but it's a holiday and I'm swamped in here.

EDIT:

-Mentioned how the Tau and Eldar books were mistakes in that they elevated expectations for the remaining 6th ed books. Said not to expect all (any) books to be quite on that level going forward. Mentioned how it's probably nice for "us" that the books were so strong. [brought up after i mentioned the tyranid book, escalation, dataslates.] ”


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

A: This is not news
B: This is second hand information from someone who got his information most likely from the internet
C: This is still not news


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## Ddraig Cymry (Dec 30, 2012)

Bindi Baji said:


> A: This is not news
> B: This is second hand information from someone who got his information most likely from the internet
> C: This is still not news


:goodpost: Couldn't have sad it better myself.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

He posted this word for word in B&C Rumors and it was promptly locked. Still, A for effort.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Moved to 40k General.


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## thefallen (Sep 21, 2011)

Bindi Baji said:


> A: This is not news
> B: This is second hand information from someone who got his information most likely from the internet
> C: This is still not news


Your wrong. I have personally delt with and have been friends with this guy for years. he unlike most of the people on the internet actually owns and operates a LGS and sells many different games. He has to talk to the sales reps at GW and other companies for inventory and orders and such. he doesn't even play the game so trolling false info has no benefit to him. It could actually hurt his business. If this isnt news to you just move on. No need to troll the thread.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Unless you talk to a board member, nobody but _nobody_ at GW knows the inner workings of the company. Don't believe anything that comes from the mouth of anyone but Mr. Kirby himself.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> Unless you talk to a board member, nobody but _nobody_ at GW knows the inner workings of the company. Don't believe anything that comes from the mouth of anyone but Mr. Kirby himself.


And even then.

Salt.


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

Sales reps aren't supposed to talk about some of the stuff that you posted.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Sales Reps *do not know* anything beyond what they are told in order to sell things. And that is not much.

They do not know the inner workings of the Studio, they are not privvy to what the Board is doing.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I heard from the friend of a janitors third cousin twice removed's exgirlfriend's judge in her meth case that GW is run by crack whores who only want to score another hit and they do not care about the public opinion.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Pardon my naievete, but how do we know what a sales rep or a store owner do or don't know?


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

venomlust said:


> Pardon my naievete, but how do we know what a sales rep or a store owner do or don't know?


Because BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Haha! Shit, there's really nothing I can say to dispute that.


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

Khorne even helped this thread(working on my Khorne WoC army)


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

To get back on topic: "What is GW thinking?"
I'll tell you: "Oh look, someone on a forum is trying to figure out our business plan based on second hand information from someone we never told anything to begin with!"


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

venomlust said:


> Pardon my naievete, but how do we know what a sales rep or a store owner do or don't know?


because we are blessed on our little site with former and current employees of GW and certain forum members have knowledge of the working relationships between GW and LFGs.


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## Matcap (Aug 23, 2012)

To be honest I don't even see what the supposed problem is here, aside from the dubious origins of the comments?

It has been stated numerous times that GW wants people to buy the miniatures and play the game the way they want to play it. I totally dig the way they provide the tools and the context to the game but let us figure out what we want with it. The friends I play with see it as a sort of modular system: BRB is the base and then you use whatever you want to use at that particular time.

You want to play competitively? Fine, use the rules set up by the TO, sure there are bound to be observerable imbalances (like tau/dar) and the ridiculous abuse by some powergamers is the stuff most people complain about on forums but I can't help but think that is a small (albeit vocal) part of the community. So good for GW that they take their commentary with a hint of salt. 

Aside from that, the videogame comparison is not that bad: for 200 bucks and a penchant for fps games I can blow through the content in a good week. Give me 200 bucks of plastic crack and you bet I'll be occupied for way longer. Could it be cheaper, sure, might even be necessary to keep the customers coming and compete with other games out there. 

But seriously, the constant talk about "you need to buy this and this, this is a money grab by GW blablabla", seriously? It's a luxury product not a basic need. Some people take their plastic soldiers a tad too serious in my opinion.


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## DecrepitDragon (Aug 2, 2011)

Having had some experience with GW employees, i can tell you that the sales rep in question here, is quite simply, speculating. Its his best guess based on what hes heard second or maybe even third hand. 

Its like asking an Avon Lady what the Avon Company Directors were saying over lunch yesterday. She could probably guess, but would she be right?


And would she care as long as you bought more shampoo? I think not.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

scscofield said:


> I heard from the friend of a janitors third cousin twice removed's exgirlfriend's judge in her meth case that GW is run by crack whores who only want to score another hit and they do not care about the public opinion.


What was their opinion on the Hobbit and the ability of GW to underwrite it's costs by the use of Finnish folk music mixed with breakbeat and fruit salad?


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

They were too busy snorting ground up Finecast to give a answer.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

scscofield said:


> They were too busy snorting ground up Finecast to give a answer.


that's fairly close to my response to lotr and hobbit to be fair


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## Battman (Nov 2, 2012)

Seems to be much like what we have heard before and what many of us think well those i know, still and interesting interpretion/read.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Bindi Baji said:


> A: This is not news
> B: This is second hand information from someone who got his information most likely from the internet
> C: This is still not news


So you mean it's a rumor?

Looks like one to me.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Jezlad said:


> So you mean it's a rumor?
> 
> Looks like one to me.


rumours that have already appeared elsewhere in the news & rumours section 
and to be honest it sounds more like a rant about GW then speculation


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

thefallen said:


> I was talking to my friend/lgs owner about the state of affairs with regards to GW. He told me of long conversation he had with his GW sales rep that some may find interesting and others,like myself may find insulting. Im quoting from his post on the lgs forum. ” Had a long, interesting convo withmyGW rep today. It was prettyinsightful.


Sounds legit. I think you may be being a bit harsh though. After-all consider the following:



thefallen said:


> -GW is not concerning themselves with game balance or competitive play in any respect.


Never have and the probably never will. Competitive play and game balance would mean they would have to play-test extensively and gather data/feedback from tournament players which would strain GW's already minimal player feedback services. Most "tournament" wargames are also tweaked regularly via FAQ's or magazine releases. GW have no means of updating the fan base like this in any shape or form. Nope. Not one. No Weekly supplement or anything. At all. Ever. Or do they? Maybe they even have three but don't tell GW that. 




thefallen said:


> -GW is totally fine with TOs tweaking the rules to create a more balanced game in / for tournament settings. [Lots of talk about how GW tried the tournament scene and how independent TOs do a much,much better job. They'd rather lett he TOs run events and tweak the rules to create game balance in a tournament / competitive setting.]


That's actually an okay thing, it also means GW don't have to spend money on tournaments or anything more than a few tables and their alcohol license at WW.



thefallen said:


> -Supplements aren't designed with game balance in mind. They are designed with fun / cool in mind. [He sighted FoB and what they did with the Escalation rules many, many times over the ~hour long convo.]


Which is fair enough, supplements are to help sell models. GW markets itself as the premier model making company, not as the "best hobby wargame company."



thefallen said:


> -Expect to see more movement towards giving players the opportunity touse the models they own in games of 40k.


This is not a bad thing. I'd rather be able to field what I want than have to be restricted by codex to codex. I still run a mishmash Lost and the Dammed from time to time.



thefallen said:


> -GW has no PR department. There will be no official announcement about any of this stuff or any article in WD. They'd like people like me to communicate this sort of thing and "steer" the community in whatever direction we'd like based on it.


The community won't ever be steered by a few key individuals. It will be from brand-name sites like Beasts of War, Seer, Dakka etc reposting / reporting on tournament lists dominating the global "Meta game"



thefallen said:


> -While the stock did drop 25% overnight, based on that report,he went onat length about how GW is a dividend company and is still going to be paying out it's dividends. Something about how 4 people own almost all of GW (stock), how profits on the whole are down (duh) but profit per dollar spent is way up (also duh). Blah Blah, this means little.


Actually it means quite a great deal. Profit was in the region of £7 million net. Shareholders will want to trim the fat to push that even higher. It also highlights that even when "struggling" the company is still able to make a respectable amount into the black for it's last 1/4 of 2013. Stocks fluctuate and yes, 25% is a major blow, however, unless the shares go into free-fall panic sales (which if it's owned by 4 people like you say, wont) then there is nothing to worry about as long as profit is generated. 



thefallen said:


> -Weekly releases, which most of us knew about.
> 
> -Weekly WD starting in Feb.
> 
> -Monthly230+page magazine.


Which may work in their favour as it breaches the wait-gap of codex-model releases. It also helps them with their retarded "hush hush" policy because they will have everyone talking about the weekly releases, not what is planned in X months time.



thefallen said:


> -The people that write the rules often don't remember what they write.[Spoke about convos he's had or been involved in with writers or stories he's heard. Mentioned one instance of a guy asking one of the writers about a rule he wrote and the writer responded with something like, "yeah,that sounds cool. why don't you guys play it that way from now on."]


Which is expected considering the design team spend more of their time flying around the world/writing articles/ going to shows and events than actually playing / writing material. It's not a priority as long as you can duct-tape everything together with disappointment and nerd rage. 



thefallen said:


> -Costs increase. They are not targeting everyone. They "are not going to open a GW store in Compton."
> 
> -They recognize they have priced new or potential players out of their games and plan to "address it."


Actually good things if true. The hobby is a commodity and should be aimed at 16-40 year olds (ie. The largest disposable income markets). Not 9-15 year olds (one of the lowest disposable markets)



thefallen said:


> -The term "gray beards" was used to compare GW gamers to model train guys. An older, wealthier, group that doesn't see a ton of new people entering the hobby.
> 
> -They view the ~$200 startup cost as something that will provide the average person with a month's worth of"entertainment," comparable to roughly 3 video games.


$200 is a reasonable start-up cost for any luxury hobby. Even basic sports require some kind of investment after initial take-up. Take European Football - Buy a ball and your good to go. Soon enough though you'll want some shin pads and maybe some boots to go with it. Even none-luxury hobbies like Running or even walking around can cost hundreds. 

Your rep is making bad practice to cross-compare mediums, GW already has stakes in the video game market and using another form of measuring stick for its miniature game is pretty self-defeating. It be like me saying "One trip to the cinema is like a box of space marines entertainment wise." It's too fuzzy to quantify it this way. 



thefallen said:


> -The rep dislikes the fact that people that are not qualified to write articles on GWs financial situation, policies, or direction often write articles on the internet that people take as gospel.


The your rep is both correct and a fool. Correct that its a shame people blindly follow them, but a fool to dismiss the clear impact these individuals have on the community. The majority of luxury hobby companies look to get the major community fan leaders on their side. Just look at video game studios and video-game journalist sites. When games want to do well they butter-up the writers and ensure promoters are happy, no matter how autistic or poorly qualified they are. GW could very well do the same but has at the least the decency to show everyone that they are self-responsible for making what people would consider "bad" decisions. 



thefallen said:


> -They want to sell models based on coolness factor, not on price tag. Cited an example where they reduced the price of WHFB cavalry models to 25 bucks (from 45) and there was absolutely no change involume. (which,tobe fair,ISa valid point. when it comes to lots of model miniatures, if people want it, they're going to buy it. at some point everyone will begin to consider price, but that number is different from person to person.)


Then they run a risky game if true. "Coolness" is subjective for everyone. I like Chaos Marines with no horns on their helmets, I think they look "cool" without them. Some people love bunny-ears on berzerkers. I loathe them and so fourth. Also this conflicts with his previous statement of "pricing themselves from new customers." You can't make everything high-priced regardless of how "awesome" it's meant to look.




thefallen said:


> -Mentioned how the Tau and Eldar books were mistakes in that they elevated expectations for the remaining 6th ed books. Said not to expect all (any) books to be quite on that level going forward. Mentioned how it's probably nice for "us" that the books were so strong. [brought up after i mentioned the tyranid book, escalation, dataslates.] ”


All resolved easily through FAQ and tweaks in one of those <COMMONLY USED BY THE COMMUNITY> sources that GW have. But don't tell them that. It's meant to be an advert catalogue.


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## DivineEdge (May 31, 2012)

On related news, I talked to my local postal worker and he clued me in to Mr. Obama's plans for change in 2014. 

But in all seriousness, while I appreciate the post, it seems the latest in a long line of negativity about GW's indifference to the tournament scene and how it is going downhill, etc. 

We need more people on the internet that like their hobby.


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

Yeah I am sick of it (as my other thread makes abundantly clear lol). 40k is what it is, GW haven't been interested in making the effort of balancing their games since...well, forever to be honest. So, take it or leave it. Sure, I have complaints about them too, but I think I know when to shut up about it where so many other people do not. And I think that is where the problem lies.
There are SO MANY gaming systems out there now you can play instead or play alongside it. GW are just everyone's favourite whipping stick. 
Or if you don't like GWs rules and really have no option to play those other games, then homebrew your own, and have fun with it.


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