# A BL Ranking System Proposal



## VulkansNodosaurus (Dec 3, 2010)

For all of us that are interested whether a book is good (well-respected among the Heresy community) or not, but don’t want to read a ton of spoilers/ trawl through 150 pages of the Currently Reading thread, I thought a thread like this could prove useful.

It works as follows: consider all (or most of, whatever) the BL works you’ve finished or done your best to finish. Then rank each of them on a 1-4 scale, with 1 being a strongly negative reaction, 2 being negative, 3 being positive and 4 being strongly positive. Ideally, with a significant sample size, this should provide a Rotten Tomatoes-like ranking.

Two notes:
* As you read more, please post a new post rather than edit the existing one.
* Please don't insult other people's opinions (formerly This Isn't for Discussion, but that won't work).

And here’s my ranking:

Novels:

4: Fulgrim, Shadow King, Caledor, Battle of the Fang, Knight of the Blazing Sun, Path of the Renegade, The Emperor’s Gift

3: Flight of the Eisenstein, Legion, Malekith, Sons of Dorn, Firedrake, Fall of Damnos, Atlas Infernal, Nocturne, Deliverance Lost, Wrath of Iron

2: Storm of Iron, Salamander, Path of the Warrior

1: Defenders of Ulthuan, Sons of Ellyrion

Novellas & shorts:

4: The Relic (Green), The Last Remembrancer (French), Little Horus (Abnett), The Iron Within (Sanders), The Reflection Crack’d (McNeill), The Serpent Beneath (Sanders)

3: Fires of War (Kyme), Hell Night (Kyme), Runes (Wraight), Sacrifice (Counter), Forgotten Sons (Kyme), Rebirth (Wraight), Feat of Iron (Kyme), The Lion (Thorpe)

2: Prometheus Requiem (Kyme), Rules of Engagement (McNeill), The Face of Treachery (Thorpe)

1: Liar’s Due (Swallow), Savage Weapons (Dembski-Bowden)


(Slightly embarrassing to admit how little I've read....)


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## Fire Tempered (Dec 16, 2010)

Ok, I ll give it a try. I will not list short stories separately, and I really haven't read them outside antologies.

4: Horus Rising, Fulgrim, Thousand Sons, Prospero Burns,First Heretic, Know no Fear, Soul Hunter, Blood Reaver, Void Stalker, Storm of Iron, Xenos, Malleus, Hereticus, Ciaphas Cain first omninus, Ciaphas Cain second omnibus, Battle of the Fang

3: False Gods, Galaxy in Flames, Flight of the Eisenstein, Legion, Outcast Dead, Deliverance Lost, Age of Darkness, Primarchs, Hellsreach, Wraith of Iron, Gildar Rift, Fall of Damnos, Firedrake, Trollslayer, SkavenSlayer, Daemonslayer

2:Salamander, Legion of The Damned, Descent of Angels, Fallen Angels, Emperor's Gift, Blood Gorgons

1: Nocturne

PS: Maybe system with more grades would work better, I prefer rankings with more than 5 grades, and 4 is quite low. 1-10 or 1-5 with steps of 0.5 would be better IMO.


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## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

Emperor's Gift as a 2? What book were you reading?


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Designation P-90 said:


> Emperor's Gift as a 2? What book were you reading?


I haven't read the book myself, and I know its widely liked but not every book by ADB is for everyone. Though he hasn't disappointed me yet, there might come a time when he might.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Ok then let's do this.

Novels/Audios

5. Void Stalker.

4. Blood Reaver, Soul Hunter, The Emperor's Gift, Fear to Tread, Know No Fear, The First Heretic, A Thousand Sons.

3. Blood Gorgons, Dark Creed, Dark Apostle, Dark Disciple, Deliverance Lost, Fulgrim, Path of the Renegade, Wrath of Iron, Legion of the Damned.

2. Gaunt's Ghosts, Battle for the Abyss, Malediction, The Purging of Kadillus.

1. Warrior Coven (Lore-wise), Dead Men Walking.


Novellas/Shorts

4. Prince of Crows, Savage Weapons, _The Masters, Bidding_, Iron Inferno.

3. The Crimson Fist, Vox Dominus, Trial of the Mantis Warriors, Black Dawn, The Core.

2. Sacrifice.

1. The Long War.


LotN


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## HOGGLORD (Jan 25, 2012)

4: Horus Rising, Decent of Angels, Ciaphas Cain Hero of the Imperium (I've got the omnibus, can't remember which one's are which.
3: False Gods, Rynn's World, Imperial Glory
2: Assault on Black Reach, Helsreach, The Gildar Rift
1: 

I'm not as critical as others seem to have, I havent yet found a book I disliked from BL, but I haven't read too many.

I'd find it easier if it was out of 5 too. If that was the case it would be the follwing:

5: Horus Rising, Decent of Angels, Ciaphas Cain Hero of the Imperium
4: False Gods, Rynn's World
3: Imperial Glory, The Gildar Rift
2: Assault on Black Reach, Helsreach
1:


(I do read a lot more than this, but few are the BL books.)


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Storm of Iron a 2?! Wow... Just wow.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Fire Tempered said:


> 2:Salamander, *Legion of The Damned*, Descent of Angels, Fallen Angels, *Emperor's Gift*, *Blood Gorgons*
> 
> 1: *Nocturne*


Regarding the bolded entries,

Are you mad? _Nocturne_ I get you either love or hate but _The Emperor's Gift_?! _Legion of the Damned_?! _Blood Gorgons_?! Those three are great, the first is one of BL's best.


LotN


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## Fire Tempered (Dec 16, 2010)

Yes, I'm apparently mad. As I said, I prefer 1-5 or even more ranking system, so don't take 2 as bad book as poster suggested, but I had to make difference between books, and I wanted to use 1-4 system, as limited as it is. There are generally few books I've read that I didn't like, so if that was 1-5 ranking, those bolded books would be 3, and Salamander, and Dark Angels books would be 2.

And that is purely subjective, Emperor's gift is really good written, but wasn't to my taste and isn't among my favourite books (which in 1-5 system would be rated with 4 and 5).

Long story short, I liked those books, though I wasn't that impressed as with some other BL books, and are among average of those I've read (I tend to pick only ones with good reviews).


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## ThePurifier (Jan 6, 2012)

Oo now this requires some serious thought but here goes

4: Horus Rising, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames, Flight of the Eisenstein, Legion, Soul Hunter, Xenos, Malleus, Hereticus, For the Emperor, Helsreach, Battle of the Fang

3: First Heretic, Aurelian, Deliverance Lost, Know No Fear, First & Only, Mechanicum, Decent of Angels, Fall of Damnos, Purging of Kadillus, The Gildar Rift

2: Pomethean Sun, Fulgrim, Fallen Angels, Salamander

1: Hunt for Voldorius, Battle for the Abyss, Catechism of Hate


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## Paceyjg (May 12, 2011)

VulkansNodosaurus said:


> For all of us that are interested whether a book is good (well-respected among the Heresy community) or not, but don’t want to read a ton of spoilers/ trawl through 150 pages of the Currently Reading thread, I thought a thread like this could prove useful.
> 
> It works as follows: consider all (or most of, whatever) the BL works you’ve finished or done your best to finish. Then rank each of them on a 1-4 scale, with 1 being a strongly negative reaction, 2 being negative, 3 being positive and 4 being strongly positive. Ideally, with a significant sample size, this should provide a Rotten Tomatoes-like ranking.
> 
> ...


I think this is a great idea and tried to start something similar when the Black Library had their forum. 

However Admin decided that if the posts did not contain opinions and debate then they would be removed.

I thought for ease of viewing people could simply list their top ten books in order, that way if you saw someone had listed, say 5 of your favourite books, then you might want to try any others on their list that you hadn't read. 

For example after reading the thread "best/worst warhammer novel" I decided to order Battle of the Fang this week, as I agreed with a few of the others top books.

I will of course remove this post if it goes against what you originally intended and maybe start a new thread?


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## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

forkmaster said:


> I haven't read the book myself, and I know its widely liked but not every book by ADB is for everyone. Though he hasn't disappointed me yet, there might come a time when he might.



I suppose, but The Emperor's Gift is one of his best.


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## VulkansNodosaurus (Dec 3, 2010)

OK... calm down....

Storm of Iron a 2: I know, everyone seems to love it, but for me it left a "meh" feeling. Probably because I read The Iron Within first.

Only 4-point scale: Well, a 10-point scale is an option, but I decided it would be easier for people to convert from 10-pt. to 4-pt. than the other way around. And 2 is the "meh" point, whereas 1 is the "hate" point.

On opinions and debate: First post changed correspondingly.

Also, 4 for A Thousand Sons, which I somehow forgot in my first post.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

If the scale was 1-5, I would give Eisenhorn and Ravenor an 8 each.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

> Are you mad? _Nocturne_ I get you either love or hate but _The Emperor's Gift_?! _Legion of the Damned_?! _Blood Gorgons_?! Those three are great, the first is one of BL's best.


LOL I think that is kind of a heads up. A list of rankings is really only how the book appealed to you. 

I for one HATED the Emperor's Gift because I cannot stand books that are written in the first person and I thought it wobbled a bit to make its point.

But hey it IS great to see how others view the works, if nothing else I can see how you look at books I liked and then use that to see if I might like the ones in your list that I haven't read..


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## Hachiko (Jan 26, 2011)

I think it's really cool to put a ranking system together. Personally, I am partial to a five point rating scale. I think a 3 is good for an average book, while 2 is for those that toe the line with mediocrity, and 1 can be reserved for outright suckage. 
With a 4-point system in play, here we go:

4- Helsreach, Horus Rising, Legion of the Damned

3- Space Marine (Watson), Cadian Blood, Gunheads, Imperial Glory, Storm of Iron, Witch Hunter

2- False Gods, The Ambassador, Grudgebearer, Runefang

1- Fifteen Hours, Ice Guard


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## cain the betrayer (Oct 12, 2009)

Here is my go at it 
1: Horus rising, the first heretic
2,
3,Malekith, Path of the renegade, the first 2 Gotrek and felix omnibuses, dead winter, age of legend
4 Shadow king, Caledor, the word bearer serie, Valkia the bloody the Ulrika the vampire books, teh grey seer books.


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## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

Magpie_Oz said:


> LOL I think that is kind of a heads up. A list of rankings is really only how the book appealed to you.
> 
> I for one HATED the Emperor's Gift because I cannot stand books that are written in the first person and I thought it wobbled a bit to make its point.
> 
> But hey it IS great to see how others view the works, if nothing else I can see how you look at books I liked and then use that to see if I might like the ones in your list that I haven't read..



Really? I prefer books written from the first person view.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Designation P-90 said:


> Really? I prefer books written from the first person view.


LOL, like I say it is just a personal preference. I find a book written "I did this and I did that" makes it hard for me to engage with the character.


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## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

Magpie_Oz said:


> LOL, like I say it is just a personal preference. I find a book written "I did this and I did that" makes it hard for me to engage with the character.


I get personal preferences but its just that I feel the exact opposite way. I just read the second Ultramarines Omnibus and it felt like I was being told a story whereas in Angel of Fire I feel like I am part of the story. 

Too each his own though!


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

I'm just going to do the Heresy series, just for the craic.



5 said:


> The First Heretic, Horus Rising, Legion, Savage Weapons, After Desh'ea.





4 said:


> A Thousand Sons, Prospero Burns, Know No Fear, Aurelian, Liar's Due, The Last Remembrancer, The Last Church.





3 said:


> False Gods, Fulgrim, Mechanicum, Butcher's Nails, Raven's Flight, The Lion, The Reflection Crack'd, The Serpent Beneath, Crimson Fist, Rules of Engagement, Rebirth, Little Horus, The Iron Within, Fallen Angels, Flight of the Eisenstein, Blood Games, Dark King, The Lightning Tower.





2 said:


> Death of a Silversmith, Nemesis, The Outcast Dead, Deliverance Lost, Kryptos, Army of One, Forgotten Sons, The Face of Treachery, Galaxy in Flames, Wolf at the Door, Scions of the Storm, The Voice, Call of the Lion, Garro: Oath of Moment.





1 said:


> Battle for the Abyss, Promethean Sun, Feat of Iron, Descent of Angels, Garro: Legion of One.


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## Lupe (Jan 3, 2011)

Novels:

4:
Helsreach
Legion of the Damned
The Emperor's Gift
Void Stalker
Blood Reaver
Soul Hunter
Lord of the Night
Storm of Iron

HH - Thousand Sons
HH - Prospero Burns
HH - The First Heretic
HH - Mechanicum
HH - Legion
HH - Know No Fear

3:
Angel of Fire
Fall of Damnos
Battle of the Fang
Cadian Blood
The Ciaphas Cain series (average per series)
The Gaunt's Ghost Series (average per series)
The Word Bearers Omnibus
Space Marine
Fear the Alien
Dead Sky, Black Sun

HH - Fulgrim
HH - Horus Rising
HH - False Gods
HH - Outcast Dead
HH - Nemesis
HH - Age of Darkness
HH - Tales of Heresy

2:
Rynn's World
Hunt for Voldorius
Fifteen Hours
Space Wolves - Second Omnibus
The Ultramarines series (with the notable exception of Dead Sky, above)

HH - Descent of Angels
HH - Fallen Angels

1:
Dawn of War Omnibus
Blood Angels series

HH - Battle for the Abyss


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

I've done it for the Eighteen HH novels 


5 Legion, Fear to Tread, The First Heretic, Know No Fear, Horus Rising, A Thousand Sons

4 Mechanicum, Fulgrim, The Flight of the Eisenstein 

3 Nemesis, False Gods

2 Galaxy in Flames, Prospero Burns, Deliverance Lost, Battle for the Abyss 

1 Fallen Angels, Decent of Angels, The Outcast Dead


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I'm just going to do the Heresy series, just for the craic.


Out of interest why the dislike of Legion of One and Death of a Silversmith? Have to agree that both Feat of Iron and Promethean Son were dreadful.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

mal310 said:


> Legion of One


I am not a fan of the Garro audio-books or James Swallow in general, for several reasons. But the return of Loken was something that I firmly opposed therefore I automatically disliked the plot. 



mal310 said:


> Death of a Silversmith


I gave it a 2, so I am not suggesting it was terrible. But it didn't stand out as deserving anything more than that. Would you disagree?


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I am not a fan of the Garro audio-books or James Swallow in general, for several reasons. But the return of Loken was something that I firmly opposed therefore I automatically disliked the plot.
> 
> 
> 
> I gave it a 2, so I am not suggesting it was terrible. But it didn't stand out as deserving anything more than that. Would you disagree?


I'm not a fan of the Audios myself and only listen to the Heresy ones to keep up with events. I personally found Oath of Moment to be the worst only because I found it boring. I quite liked Legion of One but then I was very much looking forward to the return of Loken! As for Swallow I'm assuming that you've not read Fear to Tread yet. I'm sure he's going to win over a lot of detractors with that. I thought it was excellent. I've never read his Blood Angel series (and won't), he seems to get a lot of criticism for that. 

As for Death of a Silversmith, well its by no means a literary masterpiece but I really enjoyed it because of the way it adds to the character of Hastur Sejanus, whose death it seems was a seminal event in the heresy (or I interpret to be).


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## VulkansNodosaurus (Dec 3, 2010)

To compile all the votes up to post 23 in a ranked list (of novels with at least 4 votes; votes for an omnibus mostly counted as a vote for the first book therein; 5s counted as 4s; tiebreaker is most votes above 2.50 and least votes below):

BELOVED (over 3.5)

1. A Thousand Sons
2. Soul Hunter
3. (tie) Horus Rising
3. (tie) The First Heretic
3. (tie) Know No Fear
6. (tie) For the Emperor
6. (tie) Battle of the Fang
8. Legion

RECOMMENDED (over 3 to 3.5)

9. (tie) Mechanicum
9. (tie) Prospero Burns
9. (tie) The Emperor’s Gift
12. Flight of the Eisenstein
13. Fulgrim
14. Helsreach
15. False Gods

MEDIUM (2 to 3)

16. Fall of Damnos
17. Deliverance Lost
18. The Outcast Dead
19. Descent of Angels
20. Fallen Angels

REVILED (under 2)

21. Battle for the Abyss


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Don't get me wrong. Rating novels and sharing opinions is perfectly fair and legitimate. When it comes to meeting the expectation of the OP, though - which was to have a way for an unfamiliar reader to know which book is "good" or "bad" - it's gonna be very difficult to arrive at anything resembling a consensus where most titles are concerned.

Lord of the Night, for instance, gave the "Gaunts Ghosts" series (comprised of 14 novels) a blanket "2" - the same grade that he gave "The Purging of Kadillus". If you were to ask me, though, "Gaunt's Ghosts" is one third of 40k's defining tripod of fiction (the other two being the Horus Heresy and the Eisenhorn trilogy). By contrast, I think that "The Purging of Kadillus" is lackluster without being bad, and a poor depiction of the two factions involved without necessarily being malicious or irresponsible about it.

"Prospero Burns", to mention another example, is a very polarizing novel. On this forum along, I've seen posters praise it as great fiction and denounce it as false advertising and a poor re-imagining of the Space Wolves in more or less equal numbers.

Honestly, I think a better solution might be for the Mods to open up a single thread with links to secondary threads - each devoted to a Black Library novel. Each novel's thread would have a poll whose choices corresponded to a "grade" (1 to 4, 1 to 5, 1 to 10, or whatever). Posters could thus assign that specific novel a grade and then offer their opinion. A curious would-be reader would be able to quickly get an "average" grade from the poll, and could scroll down to get stated opinions. The forum itself would only need a single stickied thread, which you would update with new links for new novels.

Thoughts? I realize that posters such as Lord of the Night and Bane of Kings - both of whom devote a lot of time to providing the fora with reviews - might be more qualified to speak on this. 

Cheers,
P.


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## VulkansNodosaurus (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, that was more or less my idea- I'd compile an overall ranking near the last page of the thread (as in post 27) and anyone interested could read through the vast quantity of discussion available, or open a new thread.


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## VulkansNodosaurus (Dec 3, 2010)

Update:
Know No Fear- 4
Bloodline (James Swallow)- 3


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

My version of CotE's Heresy ranking.



> Originally Posted by 5
> Fear to Tread, The First Heretic, Know No Fear, A Thousand Sons, Savage Weapons, Prince of Crows.





> Originally Posted by 4
> Aurelian, The Last Church, Nemesis, Deliverance Lost, Fulgrim, Butcher's Nails, The Iron Within, Flight of the Eisenstein, The Crimson Fist





> Originally Posted by 3
> False Gods, Mechanicum, The Reflection Crack'd, The Serpent Beneath, Rules of Engagement, Rebirth, Little Horus, Horus Rising, Garro: Legion of One, Garro: Oath of Moment, Legion, Galaxy in Flames, Liar's Due, Wolf at the Door





> Originally Posted by 2
> Death of a Silversmith, Army of One, Forgotten Sons, The Face of Treachery, Scions of the Storm, The Voice, Call of the Lion, After Desh'ea, Feat of Iron, Blood Games, Fallen Angels, Raven's Flight, The Lion, The Last Remembrancer.





> Originally Posted by 1
> Battle for the Abyss, Promethean Sun, Descent of Angels, Prospero Burns .


Minus one novel, _The Outcast Dead_, as I still have not read it.


LotN


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