# Black Library Weekender HH stories



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

So it appears there's going to be two black library weekender books both with Horus Heresy stories that will only be available there. One by Gav Thorpe and one by ADB. 

Which is a shame because I've gone out of my way to get every Heresy story in some form, but I won't be able to go to this weekend.

Anyway I was wondering, any idea what these stories are going to be on?


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

This just confirms my belief that the Horus Heresy has turned to sh*t.

If I'm reading this correctly, two stories set during the HH will be available, once again, in the form of limited supply at these two weekend events.

So we can therefore conclude that:

1. The stories will contribute little to the series in any kind of meaningful way.

2. They are needlessly producing erroneous and uneccessary stories

3. Should the above two points be incorrect, and by some miracle, the stories are excellent, few people will be able to get a hold of them.


My money is on the first two though.

The Horus Heresy series is beginning to reek of corruption, only instead of Chaos, its capitalistic greed.


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## Anakwanar (Sep 26, 2011)

Thank you D-A-C - my points exactly!


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

You mean like the limited edition books which are essentially a prerelease with gold plated bollocks instead of electronic copies?

They are likely to be the Iron hands 'primarchs' short which is an alternative view of the comflict in promethean son. With knf and tfh being both xiii and xvii tie ins, written by both authors, these shorts could most likely be 'the other sides' view of things - perhaps the capture of the transport in knf, and the ultras view of the emperors judgement on xvii).


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## Shepherd492 (May 1, 2012)

I really dislike BL's business practices, especially compared to Lucasarts/Del Rey (Star Wars,) because they seem much less intent on actually making sure everyone has equal opportunity to read the stories, and more on making money through one mindless promotional gimmick after another. There are four main points I have that go against them, and I will go ahead and contrast them with the Lucasarts/Del Rey equivalent:

1. Forced scarcity for upcoming stories. Not my biggest bone to pick, but highly annoying considering the ridiculous price you are paying for a short story and some artwork. It seems like a cheap way to make a quick buck and it is incredibly shameful to force that on fans, leaving some out due to an inability to pay for an overpriced product, and snatching money from the ones that do have the ability and desire to pay for what is, I believe, a package not worth the $50 price tag that is associated with it. Star Wars hasn't had a similar thing for as long as I've been reading it, which is about 13 years. 

2. Audio only books. I have nothing against audio books, but I've never actually listened to one because I'm somewhat hard of hearing. I plan on trying out a BL audio book at some point, but I don't really understand why they need to do books in audio only. Some of the so called audio dramas have been converted to prose form, why can't all of them? It doesn't make sense to do this when I'm sure there is a market that: can't experience audio dramas, doesn't want to experience audio dramas, or can't afford the additional price of an audio drama. 

3. The vast number of out of print books and the horrendously overpriced print on demand service from BL. If you want older books you either try your hand at used book stores, buy from amazon or similar services at a substantial (for a quality copy) price hike, or buy from print on demand if BL supports that book. However, the omnibus featured on print on demand are double the price of the ones actually in print, ditto for regular books. To be fair, it is a different size of book, but then why aren't we allowed to choose like we normally would? Their refusal to keep everything in circulation is perhaps due to problem #4, but it ends up really hurting the fans so that BL can profit more through the print on demand service. 

By contrast, EVERY SINGLE star wars novel is still in print right now. Some of them have been collected in a 2 or 3 for 1 format, and a few of the short stories have fallen out of circulation due to the collapse of the company that was publishing them, but other than that, you can get any Star Wars novel you want at most any bookstore. 

4. Perhaps most crucial is the general over saturation of the Warhammer market. There are over 200 novels for Warhammer 40k, and plenty more short stories, magazines, anthologies, audio dramas, graphic novels, and so on. Not only does this make for an incredibly difficult time figuring out where to start, but the immense production every year makes it very hard for economically strapped people to buy everything, and it also makes getting your hands on a BL book less of an event and more of a custom, like comic book monthlies. I might be off by a little, but I counted an astounding 27 book releases on BL's schedule for 2012. This is way too much for any franchise, regardless of the quality of the books, as they are on pace for over two a month. By contrast, Star Wars only releases between 5 and 10 books a year, usually coming in at around 7. This more manageable schedule allows for a sufficient amount of time to pass between each new release to allow a person to actually read everything they want to, and the release of a Star Wars book feels more like an event then when you get 3 Warhammer books in one day. I would wager that most people can't read 27 books a year due to prior commitments, a more relaxed style, or what have you. People miss out, books get overlooked, and so on. 

I still enjoy the books, but as a publishing company, I feel that BL has a long way to go before matching more established groups.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Shepherd492 said:


> I might be off by a little, but I counted an astounding 27 book releases on BL's schedule for 2012. This is way too much for any franchise, regardless of the quality of the books, as they are on pace for over two a month.


What criteria are you using to make that judgement, exactly? "Way too much" in what way? Black Library is a publisher. Nothing more, nothing less. Its mandate is to publish writers, like any publisher. Not to set a limit on your perception of how much a hobby should be collectible. I'm not sure I understand; does Penguin Publishing release too many books a month for you, because you can't buy and read them all? Because it's exactly the same thing here. Literally no difference.




Shepherd492 said:


> I still enjoy the books, but as a publishing company, I feel that BL has a long way to go before matching more established groups.


I sympathise with your perspective, but you're missing a trick, here. You're assuming your misconception of the situation as it applies to you, as some kind of global status quo that all companies must maintain. The reality is that Black Library outsells all the rest of the tie-in fiction in the world combined. What you mean is "There's too much for me to read, as someone who feels the need to collect and buy and read everything." That has nothing to do with BL's practises. They're just a publisher, like any other publisher. They publish. It's down to readers what they want to do with that fact.


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## Shepherd492 (May 1, 2012)

I don't have a problem with Penguin or Bantam or Del Rey or anything else because they have a wide variety of content that don't belong in the same universe or even the same genre- there isn't any reason for someone to collect all of the Penguin books or whatever because they are stylistically different and have no relation to one another. No other publisher, not even those behind Star Wars or the Star Trek novels (two universes indisputably more popular than either of the Warhammer brands) is as synonymous with the books they publish as Black Library.

Black Library publishes books in the same universe (same two universes, I suppose) at an astonishing rate. I'm saying that it is frustrating as a fan, but I think they could do with cutting back on the amount of books published in just the one universe. It dilutes the importance by having so many come out at once, and the various tricks they pull to sell more copies across a wider range of platforms really irk me, though I suppose if it works they will just keep doing it. Obviously my opinion means nothing because sales wise I'm sure they are doing fine, but it is certainly frustrating as a fan. Maybe it is even a case where BL NEEDS to do the dumb stunts and the massive output of books just to stay afloat, in which case I'd rather have an over saturated market than none at all, but when 3 books from the same universe come out on the same day (something that has happened four times this year alone), it just feels weird to me. 

I will totally stand by my opinion on the older and out of print books. Unless there is some sort of weird copyright thing/random technical error I don't know about, it is baffling to me that they refuse to support their older books, either via omnibus (preferred) or by keeping them in circulation, even if only in e-book format. That is doing a major disservice to newer fans and keeping some substantial revenue out of their pockets.


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## Igni Ferroque (Dec 7, 2010)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> The reality is that Black Library outsells all the rest of the tie-in fiction in the world combined.


I'm confused but do you mean out of all the Gamesworkshop related material or for any fan-fiction tie in to a popular sci-fi/fantasy series? Got any sources? 

If its the latter, im sure there is more Star Wars tie-in fiction than all of Gamesworkshop's out on the market.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Igni Ferroque said:


> Got any sources?


My publisher. People I know in the industry who've said the same. And I was directly referring to how much Games Workshop's tie-in fiction makes when combined against all other tie-in fiction.



Igni Ferroque said:


> If its the latter, im sure there is more Star Wars tie-in fiction than all of Gamesworkshop's out on the market.


I never said there was more or less. I don't know or care, either way. I was referring to sales. It's only a minor point, just one of many relevant to the situation. It explains why they act more like a traditional publisher than a tie-in franchise publisher. They deal in much bigger arenas. Black Library is one of the biggest sci-fi publishers in the world. EDIT: I appreciate that's difficult to imagine for some people, as the publisher looks very much the same as it did 5 or 10 years ago to a lot of people. Those who just think of, say, Dan Abnett and Graham NcNeill, for example, with a side order of Ciaphas Cain. But BL's growth has been pretty insane in speed and scale. That's a huge reason why they deal as they do. They're a real publisher now.


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## space cowboy (Apr 3, 2009)

I'll be bummed if the stories actually matter to character development, specifically the development of the principal characters, or have some reveal related to the main plot of the Heresy. I will also be bummed if they involve the Iron Warriors, as that has been my Legion since I started playing 40k back in the 2nd edition days and I tend to try and get stuff involving them beyond what I would for anything else.


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## Shepherd492 (May 1, 2012)

Even year to year I find the idea that BL has outsold the rest of the tie in fiction in the world to be an incredibly dubious claim. With all of the Doctor Who, Star Trek, Star Wars, various video game tie ins (like the Assassins Creed books), movie tie ins (Novelizations, prequels, whatever), comic tie ins (Batman in prose form), I would have to see it for myself to believe that a universe that is popular but comparatively niche would be able to outsell those various franchises combined.

I do appreciate that BL is trying (and apparently succeeding) to be a bigger publisher, it is just hard for me to reconcile that when it is all in the same universe, and therefore all logically targeted at approximately the same fan base. To me, it will always be at least a slightly different scenario than a more traditional publisher, even if they use the same tactics and put out tons of books. 

To me, the way BL is shoveling out books in the same universe by the truckload is a bit like how D.C. is going completely overboard with their Bat-family content in the New 52, in that exactly 1/4th of their titles now involve some element of the Batman universe. It is hard for readers to keep track of, difficult for readers to have the money to buy (probably looking at $40 a month, every month in order to keep up with all of it,) and it leads to inevitable lapses in quality and senseless, otherwise avoidable continuity errors. I would liken this scenario more to what BL is doing more so than I would a traditional book publisher like Penguin, where they really don't need any one franchise or author to keep them afloat. 


Also, I just realized who you were (kind of new here), and I feel honored to have earned a reply from you, unless you save your commenting for only the exceptionally bad posts, but that would still be pretty cool. I think it is a wonderful thing when authors engage with fans, especially in an online forum, and I totally appreciate and respect your viewpoint.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Shepherd492 said:


> Even year to year I find the idea that BL has outsold the rest of the tie in fiction in the world to be an incredibly dubious claim.


Well, of course. I mean, that's the thing with any industry. It's only insiders that know the truth of them, and even then that usually results in a lot of "...seriously?" moments when they learn a lot of things that - from the outside - would make no sense. I don't mean any of this in a "Sit down, man, let me school you..." kinda way. I mean it in an "I know, right? It's freaking mental" kinda way.

On the outside, you have a side-consideration (novels) of a niche hobby (wargaming). How can that match massive video game titles like Gears of War's tie-ins, etc.? Or Star Wars? What has a brand name like Star Wars?

The reality is that stuff like video game tie-ins (and even Dr. Who) are a pittance in terms of sales. Even Star Wars has massive recognition, but releases such a trickle of titles that it's outgunned by sheer volume.

I'm not out to convince you, either way. It's not my job, it makes no difference whether you believe me, and it's mental to consider going to marketing and gathering a lot of source-fed data purely in a friendly online chat where it's corollary to the main point - especially given how close-mouthed GW is in general. I like my job. I've no interest in threatening it by saying too much, when the wrong anecdote might be the last straw.

But it'll make more sense to you if you realise that it _is_ corollary, and that it does matter. Everything is about perception.

Take, say, Dreadfleet. A lot of online chatter has it failing, saying there were loads of copies left over in GW stores, and so on, compared with Space Hulk which sold out in 36 seconds and triggered blood-fueds online between people who couldn't get it. That becomes the reality for people not in the know, based on guesses. What's the truth, though? Is it that Dreadfleet actually sold incredibly well, made a great deal of money, and only didn't sell out because they produced a massively larger number of units than Space Hulk? In that light, the public perception - a complete guess - is meaningless. In that light, it was much more profitable and worthwhile from a business standpoint than Space Hulk was. And, if true, only an insider would know it. Given how rarely insiders discuss stuff like this, especially from GW, you'll see why an outsider's guesses, no matter how credible they seem to them, are essentially worthless. They're working on no info.

Take a Horus Heresy novel. _Deliverance Lost_ and _The Outcast Dead_ didn't chart on the NYT Bestseller List. But _A Thousand Sons_ did. Did they sell less than _ATS_? Well, no. But it doesn't look like that, because of how outsider perception works. They didn't chart, ergo they didn't sell as much. The end. And yet, the truth is that they sold just as much.

Similarly, any Horus Heresy title will outsell practically all sci-fi books in any given year, excepting the really, really, really major ones by, say, Peter F. Hamilton or Iain M. Banks, etc. That won't get mentioned because of the filthy ghetto reputation of tie-in fiction, among other reasons. And yet it's not unusual for a Horus Heresy novel to sell ten, fifteen or twenty times more than an average science-fiction novel. Similarly, a Horus Heresy novel may not make the NYT Bestseller list, but over time it will outsell a large number of the titles titles that did.

See what I mean? On the outside, you have the side-interest of a niche hobby. The reality is that you have one of the biggest and fastest-growing sci-fi and fantasy publishers in the world. Which one is easiest to see and believe, given outside perspective? Answer: the one that misses all the inside information, just like any industry. I find all this stuff fascinating, mostly because every single month there's some new figure or fact in the publishing industry that I see and think _"...seriously"?_


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Thought I'd just drop this in from another BL publisher in regards to whats in the anthology.

Carandini:

"I can say that mine aren't anything with the Heresy, so you're safe on that front. Not sure if both are being used, but the BL is sitting on an Iron Warriors short and a fantasy story of top-secret nature Mayhaps one or the other has found itself in these anthologies..."


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

I like BL publishing so many books, all I ask, like so many other readers, is can they make the audio dramas available in print format as well? I like a good old paperpack book in my hands when sitting on the bus/in the bath/in bed so am not inclined to buy the audio dramas. It just sucks a little that not all fans get to read all the stories because they are either limited, audio, out of print, etc...

What sort of publisher makes their books, and in particular books that are part of a major, succesful series, limited to a large swathe of their fans? If fans start feeling like they are missing large parts of the story because they don't own the increasing number or audio or limited edition only stories, they'll stop reading the main stories too. What's the point in spending time and money and only getting half the information? The fun has gone, the feeling of being part of the tale has gone. 

Imagine if Eastenders one day said "we've got a major new story line this month involving major characters, but we're only showing it on Sky 1". How many long time fans, who have watched it on BBC for years and years would be pissed off at that?! How many of them would turn on the tv one day, find that 3 characters are dead for some unexplained reason and stop watching because they feel they missed too much to catch up? 

(I don't watch Eastenders by the way, I just used it as an example of a well established and popular TV series with worldwide fans).

And I can quite easily see D.B.C's points above, I know a bit about the publishing world too. But from an outside viewpoint it could be quite easy to conclude that BL are massive, they sell massive ammounts, their stories will do well no matter and thus they care not that a 'few' fans desert the series because they feel left out, other's will take their place so who gives a shit about the disgruntled minority. But that's when they start looking like a corporate entity and not a community, and at the end of the day sci-fi of every variety lives and dies on the health and wealth of its community. Once you stop being family and start feeling like nothing but a consumer the spell is broken. 

Rev


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