# Heresy Fiction Comp 2010: Dog Brothers



## Zenith_of_Mind (Mar 12, 2010)

Removed By The Author


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

I`ll hand it to you, Zenith, I didn`t think you could conjure up something as good as this, even amongst your bravado upon the other thread.

So yes, the best I`ve read yet, and its great to see some Guard at last


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## Zenith_of_Mind (Mar 12, 2010)

bobss said:


> I`ll hand it to you, Zenith, I didn`t think you could conjure up something as good as this, even amongst your bravado upon the other thread.
> 
> So yes, the best I`ve read yet, and its great to see some Guard at last


Thanks for reading. Well of course it's good, I don't brag around when I can't deliver (and even then, the bragging is of course done in slighty satirical tone). 

I decided for the Guard because I'm getting bored with the Space Marine/CSM stories which make up to 90% fanfiction. IG is made up of real men with real problems (for example, they can actually die) so I have much more fun writing them than Astartes.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Certainly. Mine`s Guard, because, as said, its much easier to relate to, instead of mediocre, cliched Astartes. 

That said, having read some of the prose/Roleplay posts of some members on Astartes, I know some people can certainly pull off Space Marine fiction.


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## Zenith_of_Mind (Mar 12, 2010)

bobss said:


> Certainly. Mine`s Guard, because, as said, its much easier to relate to, instead of mediocre, cliched Astartes.
> 
> That said, having read some of the prose/Roleplay posts of some members on Astartes, I know some people can certainly pull off Space Marine fiction.


Of course, Astartes can be made into interesting characters but since I have read several Horus Heresy novels, my dislike for them grew a bit. I mean, Space Marines are cool and everything (and without them, Warhammer40k wouldn't be what it is), but their detachment from humanity makes them bleak. And not to mention that their almost-immortality sometimes takes the fun of action. That's why I prefer the Guard. Some of the regiments like Catachans are genuine badasses, and completely underrated because of the Astartes.

As I understand, you have written a IG story, yes? Are you entering the competion as well?


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## Turkeyspit (Jun 11, 2010)

Zenith_of_Mind said:


> I decided for the Guard because I'm getting bored with the Space Marine/CSM stories which make up to 90% fanfiction. IG is made up of real men with real problems (for example, they can actually die) so I have much more fun writing them than Astartes.


Yeah, but on the flipside, it reminds me of a discussion I had back when I used to play WoW: when people suggested that I roll a Human, I would reply "I play a Human IRL*, ty."

Part of the fun of SM's is creating a character that _can_ be more than your average human. The trick, I think, is to not fall into the SM-mold and end up with a bunch of giant automatons.

I'm working on an IG short-story myself atm, just to try and see the 'other side', but I doubt I'll ever lose my love for SM's.









*IRL = In Real Life - for those not familiar with the lingo :victory:


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## Zenith_of_Mind (Mar 12, 2010)

Turkeyspit said:


> Yeah, but on the flipside, it reminds me of a discussion I had back when I used to play WoW: when people suggested that I roll a Human, I would reply "I play a Human IRL*, ty."
> 
> Part of the fun of SM's is creating a character that _can_ be more than your average human. The trick, I think, is to not fall into the SM-mold and end up with a bunch of giant automatons.
> 
> I'm working on an IG short-story myself atm, just to try and see the 'other side', but I doubt I'll ever lose my love for SM's.


It all comes down to personal preference. For example, in the several IG yarns I have written for the BL I have tried to examine the character of my protagonist -why does he fight, what are his motives etc. You can't do that much of character development with SM's, or at least I haven't seen it done with exception of novels by Abnett or McNeill. Other authors (and not to mention many amateur fanfiction writers) simply dismiss it as irrelevant and focus on generic skull bashing, which is fine, but gets boring after some time. I don't particularly like SM because of their "obey without question" attitude combined with lack of any fun (drinking, whoring etc.). I guess it's ironic that the defenders of humanity aren't that human, after all.


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## Turkeyspit (Jun 11, 2010)

Zenith_of_Mind said:


> It all comes down to personal preference. For example, in the several IG yarns I have written for the BL I have tried to examine the character of my protagonist -why does he fight, what are his motives etc. You can't do that much of character development with SM's, or at least I haven't seen it done with exception of novels by Abnett or McNeill. Other authors (and not to mention many amateur fanfiction writers) simply dismiss it as irrelevant and focus on generic skull bashing, which is fine, but gets boring after some time. I don't particularly like SM because of their "obey without question" attitude combined with lack of any fun (drinking, whoring etc.). I guess it's ironic that the defenders of humanity aren't that human, after all.


Ah, but that is the fault of the BL and its authors, and probably why so many people tire of SM stories. There is no reason at all why an author cannot explore "why" a SM fights.

For example, let's look at it real fast:

Why does a SM fight - because he was conditioned to, and if he doesn't, he will be executed by his Sgt/Cpt.

Why does an IG fight? - because he was conditioned (or trained, if you prefer) to, and if he doesn't, he will be executed by his Sgt/Commisar.

Really not much of a difference in motivation.

For an IG though, overcoming things like fear can be a challenge, where a SM has no problem. For a SM, pride, arrogance, callousness, 'fear' of failure, are all issues they struggle with.

You could take the mindless skull-bashing of SM's and turn it into an IG story, and find it just as boring. You can also take the depth of IG stories (say, Gaunt's Ghosts) and turn it into a SM story (see Brothers of the Snake) and find it just as enjoyable.

More SM writers need to build up the psyche of their characters, and not just their armament. My submission for example, was my attempt to, from a child's perspective, describe everything I feel is awesome about a SM: their strength, power, nobility, sense of sacrifice, etc.

Of course I could write IG characters in exactly the same way, but I worry too much about making a 41M version of 'Rambo' - conquering all of Vietnam with a bow & arrow seems plausible for a SM, but not for an IG trooper :grin:


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## Zenith_of_Mind (Mar 12, 2010)

Turkeyspit said:


> More SM writers need to build up the psyche of their characters, and not just their armament.


Nicely put, and completely true.



Turkeyspit said:


> Of course I could write IG characters in exactly the same way, but I worry too much about making a 41M version of 'Rambo' - conquering all of Vietnam with a bow & arrow seems plausible for a SM, but not for an IG trooper :grin:


Funny you mention Rambo - my IG yarns revolve around Sly Marbo who conquers his enemis with ripper pistol, Catachan Fang and his steely muscles and iron will. Still, I have tried to present him with dose of realism both physically and mentally, without the SM gung-ho. Aside from being a badass, Sly is an interesting character in many ways -for example, nobody forces him to fight (commisars don't end up well on Catachan) but he still chooses to fight for his reasons etc. In short, that was my point - I personally prefer non-SM characters like IG, Inquisitors etc. SM are also awesome, but their fiction (even the professional one) can get boring at times.


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## Babypowder (Nov 10, 2009)

Nice story! Good luck. I enjoyed the end when the uppity general got what was coming. :grin:

I'm actually not a huge fan of guard stories that I've read. I don't know why but when I read guard I just always feel like its generic army story number 5 million. Don't get me wrong they are usually decent stories and all but just not my favorites. Definitely agree that the Space Marines can get pretty boring from time to time also though.

Inquisitor stories are probably my favorites. They still got the whole human aspect you guys are talking about but with a really interesting twist usually.

I also really liked the novel Relentless. That's pretty similar to guard being about the navy and all but that book was just really great I think.

I enjoyed the read! And good luck again! Guess I'm off to read the rest of the fiction comp entries now...I'm such a slow reader this could take forever! Heh.


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## Pertwee (Jul 24, 2010)

Ver nice story, good luck with the competion. I love IG stories especially ones where the annoying general gets hit 
I find that SM novels get a little too repetitive after a while but there is normally something new in each IG story.


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## Zenith_of_Mind (Mar 12, 2010)

@Babypowder & Pertwee - thanks for reading and commenting guys. 

When I get the time I'll check "Relentness" out, thanks for recommendation.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Very A-Team (if, admittedly, toned back for realism)...

Nicely told story. I found myself disagreeing with the word choice or order at times, but as a whole, it weaves together nicely. It's definitely one of the strong entries in this competition!

I will confess, though, that with the title, I was disappointed that it wasn't about the Salvar Chem Dogs.


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## Zenith_of_Mind (Mar 12, 2010)

Mossy Toes said:


> Very A-Team (if, admittedly, toned back for realism)...
> 
> Nicely told story. I found myself disagreeing with the word choice or order at times, but as a whole, it weaves together nicely. It's definitely one of the strong entries in this competition!
> 
> I will confess, though, that with the title, I was disappointed that it wasn't about the Salvar Chem Dogs.


Thanks for reading and commenting.
I don't remember much about the Salvar Chem Dogs (I think I have only glanced their info long time ago), and, as you said, my yarn doesn't have to do anything with them. Actually, I haven't named Eiding's regiment for the purpose of further stories, in which his squad's fate interweaves with Catachan regiments. The "dog" in the title referes to other things.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

A good read. I really enjoyed it. Thanks. To be honest I thought the writing was overly descriptive at the start but that was just to set the scene which it did very well. But it got moving nicely. A very solid piece of work.


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## Zenith_of_Mind (Mar 12, 2010)

shaantitus said:


> A good read. I really enjoyed it. Thanks. To be honest I thought the writing was overly descriptive at the start but that was just to set the scene which it did very well. But it got moving nicely. A very solid piece of work.


Thanks for reading. Well, I don't think it was overly descriptive, actually I wanted to add more descriptions and more character development, but due to the world limit I decided to concentrate more on action (after all, this is warhammer40k). Description of characters and locales is absolutely must for any quality piece of literature, whether it's a fanfiction piece or a bestselling novel.


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## waltzmelancholy_07 (Sep 30, 2008)

Well it was a nice attempt in the IG category... But it could have been better...

Critique:

I didn't feel any attachment to the characters... They were like unimportant elements to me. In a minute I processed who they were and in the next few seconds, they completely slipped out of my mind.

You could have at least allowed your readers to delve deeper into their past or habits, anything for the readers to relate to, but the main problem was, you didn't have a focal point.

What was the central idea or character, the defining element of your story? Was it the invasion?... The rescue?... The sarge? The sniper? What?... 

And maybe if you had any, it wasn't that noticable. The division of the protagonist's part further placed a blanket of confusion and blandness on top of it... 

Which resulted in me trying to find some sense as to why would they rescue their squadmates over the fact that they needed to deliver the information that the enemy was somewhere where High Command thought they weren't, which was more important for the offensive to be a success...

And why didn't you kill the sniper?... I mean he was really unimportant...

Oh and finally the ending was anti-climatic... A cliche...

End of Critique...

So there it is mate... Sorry for the bluntness... Again, nice attempt but it could have been better...

Cheers!...


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