# New poster, critique/suggestions please!



## bigprfed22 (Dec 30, 2011)

Hey guys/gals, 

I have never gotten critiqued by others as my colleciton has remained to myself for years. I really just model primarily but kind of want to get a cuople of games in with some coworkers so i want to make sure im tip top. Suggestions please!


I usually like to do a lot of "battle worn" looks and lots of "broken" bits:victory:











































































:smoke:


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## aranelthemithra (Nov 1, 2011)

Very nice for tabletop quality. If you want to move past that (think 'Eavy Metal) then you will have to begin looking at doing blending, darklining, etc. 

Your cloak on the sgt. for example can be painted to be quite dramatic. Start with a darker base coat and then layer highlights on it to give it a lot of depth. You can start with watered down paints and apply the same colour over and over in smaller areas to create a blend to a highlight. Or you can actually blend the paint, but that can take some practice. 

You already use darklining a little from the looks of it, so you just want to exaggerate that in a number of places (breaks in armour, differential areas between similarly coloured base colours) 

The faces are in a good place. 

You could use washes more dramatically here. Painting with a base coat, washing then reapplying the base coat then adding 2 different levels of highlighting on the face can give it so real depth. Right now your faces are detailed, and well painted, but a little flat. 

In fact, if there is a major criticism here, it's that your models are painted a little flat. 

As I said, this is a great start, and an entire army painted this way would look very nice on the table top, but you can add some drama and depth and flare with only a few simple changes and effects as well as some really quite a bit more advanced techniques. It depends on how much further you want to go. 

A simple example, beyond the cloak is... metal CAN be washed and highlighted. To keep things looking sparkly and new, you wash carefully and only allow it to stay in the recesses, repaint the base metallic paint and then highlight with a lighter version of the same metallic colour (boltergun metal to a mythril silver for example) to pick out details and again, add some of that depth. 

If you want it to age, you can use the wash a little more liberally, paint the base as a metal mixed with say ... brown, and then highlight a little more judiciously.


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## Warpath (Nov 27, 2007)

Welcome to Heresy 

This is a great start and know doubt you'll get plenty of help from all the other members that are here. So my thoughts on what you have done.....

The base blue looks good and solid and the highlights are all spot on, maybe keeping them a little thinner! But this comes with practise as does all things. You have done some shading on the models but you could take this further on the models. You've done it around the legs and it looks spot on so taking this to the heads, shoulder pads and backpacks. As has been mentioned already adding some deph (shading) to the cloak would really make the highlights on it pop. Have you tried painting on battle damage? If not there are some really good tutorials here so check them out. 

Also adding some weathering will give them that battle worn look you are looking for. 

All in all these look great and i look forward to seeing more of your army.


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## bigprfed22 (Dec 30, 2011)

They definitely are flat, i have been trying to figure out what i can do to make them more in depth but* not end up "smoothed" if you know what i mean? I water down my paints a little now maybe i will try a little more.




Can you give a visual example? I have been trying to get this done but i havent had anything technique wise to follow to change my "system" if you will. I have noticed that some shade vs wash what do you think is better when it comes to faces? I usually like to wash so that i dont lose any detail within the model it self.



aranelthemithra said:


> You already use darklining a little from the looks of it, so you are in a good place.
> 
> You could use washes more dramatically here. Painting with a base coat, washing then reapplying the base coat then adding 2 different levels of highlighting on the face can give it so real depth. Right now your faces are detailed, and well painted, but a little flat


 

PS thanks for taking the time to write that out!:drinks:


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## aranelthemithra (Nov 1, 2011)

Games workshop painting gives you a pretty good idea of what to do. 










They use a very basic painting strategy for their models. 

Try to mix your paints down with water to a 1-1 mix of paint and water. It makes everything go on smoother. 

1) paint base coat. It should be the colour you want the model to end up 
2) Wash liberally (to get that darkness in to all the recesses) - indeed you can paint between all the armour with black or a dark version of the colour to enforce the effect. 
3) repaint the washed areas with the base colour again
4) Highlight the edges with a lighter colour 
5) Some people will highlight details with a drybrush coat as well. That's your preference. 

That's how they paint those models. They then paint all the detail, etc. 

For faces, you can use two layers of highlighting... base, highlighted areas (forehead, cheeks, chin, jawbone), and then highlights such as brow, nose, and cheek bones.


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## bigprfed22 (Dec 30, 2011)

This is what i am trying to avoid. In my opinion and soley my opinion so no offense to anyone, the "default" style looks a bit cartoonish, I am going for a dark worn look.:training:




aranelthemithra said:


> Games workshop painting gives you a pretty good idea of what to do.
> 
> 
> They use a very basic painting strategy for their models.
> ...


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## aranelthemithra (Nov 1, 2011)

bigprfed22 said:


> This is what i am trying to avoid. In my opinion and soley my opinion so no offense to anyone, the "default" style looks a bit cartoonish, I am going for a dark worn look.:training:


Start with the basics, then learn to add a dark look. 










This is one of mine that's a work in progress. I used the exact same principles I outlined above but desaturated colours. Right now, I am taking it to the extremes on it's highlighting colours and shading so I can create a dynamic look, but I don't think you can say it's cartoony. 

Remember, reality is "large as life" ... your miniature is tiny. for the effects to work, they must be more extreme. You may feel it's too much when you are doing it, but when you look at it on the table, it will capture the look you are going for. 

desaturating the colours a little ... using less vibrant tones will give things a toned down look, but you can still have the differences between dark and light be just as extreme. Do a google search for chiaroscuro. It's the art of dark and light. 

After you have painted the figure cleanly (like my Lileth originally was) you can go back and paint in some wear, damage, and it will stay looking cleanly painted, even if the armour looks dirty (because you painted browns and yellows to represent damage and dirt)


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## Shogun_Nate (Aug 2, 2008)

Howdy bud!

First off, the minis look pretty darn good! For bog-standard table-top, these guys would be perfectly fine. If you're looking to make them stand out a little more, there are a few basic things you can do (covered rather aptly by aranelthemithra ((very good advice I say!)) but I like to kick dead horses :biggrin that will help improve them.

*The Basics*

*Cleaning*

The first thing is thorough cleaning. I noticed mold lines on the powerfist sergeant on the powerfist, his backpack and bolter. I also noticed it on the plasma cannon. Few things can detract more from a good, solid paint job (like you have here) on minis than these. They'll mess up highlights, collect washes (and become even more visible LOL) and really make the mini look unfinished. I miss them too (hence why I detest them LOL) but always go back over the mini to make sure you catch them. 

*Undercoating*

Depending on what you undercoat with, this will affect the overall look of the miniature. Black undercoats make for darker colors while white for lighter. If you're looking for a darker, grittier look black would work better. Of course, you shouldn't feel limited to using just black and white! You might find a good flat dark blue spray that would work well for your guys. With a dark blue you'd have your basecoat and undercoat all rolled into one, saving you a little time. You could also try a dark brown. Basecoating over an undercoat of dark brown would leave the recesses already looking dirty.

*Neat, Concise Painting*

When painting your minis, always make sure you keep the colors where they belong. From the look of your stuff, you've pretty much got this down pat bud. The only place I really notice that needs work seems to be around the shoulder pads and detail areas (more later). 

*Thinning Paints*

While it looks like you've got this, one thing you want to remember is to thin your paints. You want a milk-like consistency. Thicker than water but thinner than the paint. Thin paints allow you to add more layers (more later) without worrying about destroying details. Always remember, it's better to put on three or four thin layers than one or two thick ones. 

*Painting*

*Base Colors for Metal*

You don't have to use just black as a base color for your metals. Any color can work, but others just work better. Metallic colors like gold or brass actually go better over dark browns and usually with fewer coats. The end color is more uniform and stronger, I think. Silver generally coats over black well but you could also try a very dark grey.

*Definition*

From the looks of your work, you've got a good grasp of this. The recesses of the armor are darker, giving definition to the seperate pieces where you've applied your basecoat. The next step would be to take this a little further. You can either black line around individual pieces to break them up (example: the shoulder pads and rims, the chest eagles and the chest armor, purity seals, etc.) or take your base armor color and mix it with black and do the same thing. I know it seems redundant, but I prefer mixing the base color with black as it isn't quite so start a difference from the majority of the armor color. Basically you take a very fine-tipped brush and replicate what you've done on the rest of the armor around the areas mentioned above by painting a thin line of darker color to seperate the two. 

*Highlighting*

Again, this is something you have a good grasp of. The only recommendation I have is refining it. On certain parts of the armor, you have narrow, neat highlights which look great. On other parts (again, shoulder pads crop up lol, some of the helmets and the jet packs), you've made the highlight too wide. You want to repeat the narrower bands of highlighting you've done to the rest of the armor to the shoulder pads, etc.

*Washes*

Washes are an awesome way to add definition, age, and depth to a mini. They are also a good way to bring colors together. Along with glazes (more on this later), they are one of the easiest ways to add to a mini. One thing washes work very well on is metallics. Silvers benefit immensely from blacks and blues (depending on the final color you're looking for) and golds get the same love from browns. Simply applying a brown wash over gold will really bring depth to the color (especially on things like chest eagles that have lots of little recesses for it to soak in to). After you apply washes to a metal, let them dry and then go back and highlight them. Even a single highlight of the base metallic color over a wash will go a long way to adding definition.

Washes can also be used to show effects like mud and dirt. A direct wash from the pot will have a strong color that when applied around the boots and lower legs can give you a really good muddy effect. If you thin them down a little, the color won't be as strong but will still give you a more muted, dirty look. Thinned, it can be added to other parts of the armor without changing the color too much and, once again, give you that gritty, dirty look.

The only real downsides to washes are: a. they make stuff veeeeery shiny and b. sometimes come off looking splotchy on larger, flatter areas. The shiny effect from washes can be knocked down though when you seal them. Dark washes applied around where differing armor pieces meet are a good way to add definining lines too. 

*Slightly More Advanced but Easy Techniques*

*Glazing*

Glazing is similar to washing but works a little differently (well, what I call glazing LOL). Glazes are usually made from regular colors that are thinned to a wash-like consistency with a spot of dish washing liquid soap(like Dawn) added to break up the surface tension of the mix. They work very well when it comes to bringing colors together by softening transitions or muting/darkening them. As you're looking for a more worn look, you might want to try mixing the base blue armor color with a spot of black (a very small spot), some water and the spot of dish washing soap. You don't need much in the way of dish washing soap. Just dip the tip into a little of it and put it in the glaze mix. You'll see an immediate result as the color of the mix will lighten and spread to the edge. You will want to do this in a small bottle top or something. You don't want to do it on your palette unless it has little seperate mixing areas. Also, make sure you use a seperate junk brush for this (not the one you're painting with LOL). Dish washing soap works by breaking down grease and fats and may destroy the material used to hold the bristles together in your brush. 

After you have it all together, liberally apply it to the mini. Now, make sure you understand that this will have different effects. If you add black to the glaze it will darken the overall appearance of the armor. You might not want this. If you don't want it darker, don't add the black. Just use the thinned base color in the mix. 

One area this would really work with is the cloak and the power weapons/lightning claws. By taking the darkest color used, you can make a glaze that can help bring the colors together in these areas. 

Another good thing about glazes is the more of them you do, the darker/more muted the colors will be. The same can be said for color transition on the power weapons.

*Drybrushing*

One good way to add that worn, bedraggled look is with drybrushing. Want your marines to look like they've been slogging their way through the mud and guts of a battlefield? Well, a couple quick drybrushes can do this. The color you've used for your bases is a good place to start. When you paint the bases, drybrush over their feet and the lower area of their leg armor. Do this lightly so that only a small amount of the brown goes on. You want it to just barely show over the armor. Once this is dry you can take a lighter brown and do a slight drybrush again over the brown areas to add a little extra definition.

*Chipped Armor Effects*

This is one of the easiest techniques to use to show battle damage/wear. Now, what you've done in the way of battle damage looks great. You did a damned fine job on the bullet holes in the shield, the plasma cannon backpack (if I was the guy using that plasma cannon, I think I'd go see a Tech Marine ASAP...plasmas are dangerous enough as it is without the added dangers of holes in the equipement...:biggrin. You can take this a step further by adding 'chips' to the armor. You don't have to add much in the way of chips either. A few spots spread out look good without detracting from the overall look of the mini. Simple base the area where you want the chips to be in either black or dark brown. Once dry, go back with a little silver and paint the inside of the chipped area, leaving the previous black/dark brown showing around the edges. You can even go back and highlight this a little more should you want.

*Mud Spatters*

This is also another very simple technique that when applied very sparingly can add to the look of a miniature. Using a small, porous sponge (like you used to get in blister packs..or still might..haven't bought any blisters in ages LOL), you can apply thinned brown paint to the armor of your minis. You don't want to add too much. Just a little here and there. Once it's dry, you can go back with a lighter brown and add little touches over the previous color to add definition. With this, the colors you choose can add that extra bit of 'pop'. Lighter greyish browns can show dried mud, darker stronger browns fresh. 

*Not So Easy Advanced Techniques*

*Layering*

You've got a good start on layering. With a little practice, you'll master it easily. One place that it would look good would be the faces, the cloak on your captain and the power weapons. Layering basically means you layer one color over the next, leaving some of the previous color in the recesses/shadow areas. 

I'll start with the faces. Personally I don't use washes on faces anymore. When I first painted, I did. It's a good, quick way to add definition to a face. However, I love the overall effect of layering and highlighting over washing.

Start with a thinned dark brown and coat the face. If you want an even coat, you can add another after the first is dry but it's not that important as long as the darker spots are in the recesses. For your first layer, mix the brown you used as your base with your flesh tone. If you use Bronzed Flesh for example, a mix of 1:1 of Bronzed Flesh and the dark brown would work great. Layer this mix over the base color making sure to leave the brown in the recesses (around the mouth, eyes, ears, chin, brow, etc.). Once dry, layer on pure Bronzed Flesh, hitting the cheeks, brows, nose, lips, wrinkles and the like. Again, you leave some of the previous layer showing towards the recesses. After that, you start to highlight. Mix Bronzed Flesh with a lighter flesh tone, 1:1, and start on the prominent features like the brow, nose, lips, chin, ear lobes, etc. You can leave it at that or highlight again with pure lighter flesh tone. When highlighting you want to make sure you hit the highest spots in a smaller and smaller area as you do so. 

*Color Transitions*

Color transitioning is very important and can be achieved by using a combination of many of the above techniques. A good example would be the power weapon/lightning claws. Here you have used colors that are too starkly different. Things like glazes and washes can help to lessen this but only to an extent. What you want to do is add more layers to them.

The sword, for example, you want to add a few more layers in between what you've done to help bring the overall transition from dark red at the base to white at the tip. To achieve this, we want to mix transition layers. You'll also see why you want to make sure your paints are properly thinned! :biggrin:

Start with dark red. Paint the entire sword this color. Next, mix the dark red with the purple you've used, 2 parts red:1 part purple. Layer this over the length of the blade and along the blade's edge, leaving the dark red closer to the sword's hilt. Next take mix 1:1 red/purple and again layer it over the previous color down the blade and edge, leaving some of the previous color showing towards the red. After that, go with the purple and repeat the above (when it comes to layering you'll notice a lot of lather/rinse/and most importantly, repeat! :biggrin. Next, transition to the pinkish color and repeat. You do this until you get to the white which should just be at the very tip of the blade and down the uppermost edges. Now, if you're just adding white to the dark red to make these colors, use less white towards the red and more towards the tip. 

After having blathered on with all of this, I will still say that for a table-top, your stuff looks very good bud! I'm also quite sure I've missed something. If there's something I didn't cover or you have more questions, please let me know. You can post 'em here or PM me, either/or works for me! 

Hope this helps!

Good luck and good gaming,

Nate - The Long-Winded


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## bigprfed22 (Dec 30, 2011)

Not finished but one of the latest additions.


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

I think you're pretty good at painting and show a lot of potential. I'm not sure I can add anything that hasn't already been said, but if you follow the tips with your next mini I'm sure you'll see some improvement in some areas that will push you from good to great. 

Things like eyes, jewels and lenses you already seem pretty good at, but you need to use more washes with your blending, but mate, you're nearly there already. 

Good luck

Rev


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

i have to say the white looks flat, but awsome otherwise


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