# BattleTech/Mechwarrior VS. Imperium



## jaren (Jul 7, 2008)

In the spirit of the threads showing in popularity amongst us theory smiths, I propose a look into the battle tech universe and the Imperium.

http://battletech.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page if you are unfamiliar with the battletech universe.

lets have two pieces of theory, one taking place just after the clan invasion of the central core, and then theorize that the clans and noble houses have unified against the Imperium.


allons-y!


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## DavC8855 (Oct 14, 2008)

word, love the FASA world. Where do you want to begin friend?? Tech comparison (titans/vs mechs). Space Marines vs Elementals? We can have fun with this one. 

How about the Battletech technology being some of the technology lost to Age of Strife. 
_rambling_ :grin:


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## Lorgar Davion (Dec 26, 2009)

*Empire vs the Inner Sphere / Clans*

I was born to discuss this topic ! Just a joke but seriously , this is as interesting a discussion as we can have . 

- Right from the start i need to point out that he nature of the two universes is quite different . Battletech is SCI-Fi ( mostly what we have today with far more advanced tech ) while Warhammer 40 k is fantasy cloaked as Sci-fi . I mean no disrespect to Warhammer 40 k just want to avoid right from the start a situation like : " my chaos demons will surely rip to tiny shreds any battlemech you care to mention " . I will not get into a insanity like that and i hope no one else will . Please people lets keep the " warp " out of this ! ( Yes i do realize this is very ironic considering the fact that my name starts with " Lorgar " ) 

- " Where do my mechs fight the space marines " ? was the first thing that popped in my mind when i have seen this topic . Will the battle take place in the Warhammer or the Battletech universe ? I ask this because of the " warp " , it does not exist in the battletech universe . No " warp " means no imperial powers . 

- For the sake of been fare i propose that we turn a blind eye on the warp ( no pun intended ) , on the fact that it does not exist in Battletech , and allow the imperials to have some psy power for moving ships around and FTL communication . I wish i could take the warp totally out of the question but then the imperials would be stuck to sub light travel and communication . Without some warp powers the imperials would not leave home least of all fight the clans , sorry Warhammer players but it is the truth . 

- The problem of Faith / Religion / Idealogy

Make no mistake about it , Battletech vs Imperium is a holy war , a jihad or a crusade .
Some people will ask me why the hell do i bring religion into this , the answer is quite simple : all the faiths of today exist and thrive in the battletech universe . What do you people think will happen when some jack ass in shining armor shows up and declarers himself Master of Mankind and all of the world religions obsolete ? He will be immediately opposed for political reasons by the states like the Draconis Combine who 's Coordonator will not be too pleased and he will be promptly declared " Shaitan " by the Muslims and Anti - Christ by the Christians in the Battletech universe . He will get instantly a jihad / crusade declared on his arse and the whole insanity will increase and rivers of blood will feed the Blood God ( Khorne : Yum , yum , yum . . . the blood of mechwarriors is so sweet ! ) . 
Enough been said here , suffice to say that this war would be bigger then the Succession wars , the clan invasion , the Fed Com Civil War and the Blake Jihad combined . With all his flaws the battletech universe is one where people fight for there freedom and independence as they have done for centuries and will be as motivated as one can be to fight . 

- The problem of time . 

When will this conflict take place ? The more you advance in Battletech the more strong the political formations become and the stronger there armies become . The more you advance the warhammer time line the weaker the imperium becomes . 

- The problem of the Emperor ( as false as he may be ) . 

This problem is a by product of the question of time . Is this fight pre - heresy or post heresy ? If we chose to bring the emperor and the primarchs into the fight , how strong will they be in a universe where no magic exists ? Seriously guys don't bring a " the emperor can burn whole armies with his mind " kind of argument into this fight . He cant do that in Battletech , but i will allow him the fact that he is a great leader , something like " Devlin Stone " maybe , with more shiny bits and stupid smirk on his face . 
Without the Emperor the empire can at most launch something like the crusade of Lord Solar Macharius . That was the greatest imperial advance post heresy but it only took 1000 worlds or so . That is the best the imperium is capable of post heresy . You think i may be wrong please post link to fluff where the imperials out do Solar Macharius . Solar Macharius could not conquer the thousands of inner sphere and clan worlds . Period . 

- The problem of communication . 

I refer here to communication between the stars , i am sure both factions have mustered the mens for planetary communications and will not discuss that . 
The battletech guys have hyper space relays , they are reliable and make sense . The imperials have " freaks with mind powers " for lack of a better terms . Even assuming that they are still able to send astropathic communication in an universe where no warp exists , they are still unreliable and weak compared to Com Star 's networks . Sure the Com Star facilities will be primary targets for space marines and many will be taken out , but still building more facilities is easier then creating more mutants with immense psy abilities that have to be binded to an emperor that is not so great ones he can no longer rely on the warp in battletech . 
The Clans and Great Houses will be have better command and control options then the imperials . 

- The problem of battle in space . 

This is not even a problem . Here the imperials have no advantage what so ever . Battleships , cruisers , carriers , fighter bombers . . . battletech has all that and more . Even assuming that imperial ships can still move without the warp , battletech ships are far more efficient with there KF Drives ( instantaneous travel but require a few days to recharge , still better then risking your soul in the warp , surrounded by demons , in the hands of a freak with a third warp eye , spending months in transit . . . bla , bla , bla . Ships in battletech are constructed in far less time then the decades if not centuries it takes the imperials to build theres .

Imperial commander : " This 100 years were well spent , now i have a new Apocalypse battleship " .
Steiner Admiral : " S###w you a####e , i have a whole fleet build in this time "

Also ships in BT can warp ( small letter " warp " in BT is totally different from " THE WARP " in War 40 k ) far closer to celestial objects . I could go one but there is really no point to keep discussing ships , the battletech commander would be able to out build , out smart and out maneuver his War 40 counterpart . No amount of daring heroic boarding raids by marines will be able to make up for the limitation of imperial ships . 

- The problem of troop deployment 

The battletech player has the advantage here as well . The drop pods and Thuderhawks of the Astartes coupled with the troop transports of the Imperial Guard are far inferior to the Drop ships of the battletech commanders . The mobility and firepower afforded by the drop ship who if need be can deploy its own fighter cover , that is fully capable to drop 50 mechs ( i am just giving a large number here to prove a point , there are many sizes of drop ship available , read for yourself ) right on top of the imperials and still pound the imperials with numerous guns mounted on the dropship , will just make PaPa Smurf Ultra Marine commander cry ! : ) . God i hate the ultra Marines ! 

- Leman Russ / Predator / Baneblades vs Myrmidons and Demolishers 

Clans and IS have better tanks , not to mention the ability to create far more mobile hover tanks . Clan tanks will still be mobile long after imperial Leman Russ' es have ground to a halt . Baneblades appear to be nigh invulnerable but getting hit by 3 ppc 's at the same time from a clan tank while been targeted by mechs and swarmed over by elementals will quickly change things . Even if i assume for the love of argument that baneblades will kill 100 for everyone of there losses they would still lose . The imperium can simply not produce enough of them , this is simply a case of WW 2 German Tigers tanks versus lots of T - 34 's . We all know how that ended up . The imperials have to either construct new baneblades in the inner sphere or bring new ones from the Imperium proper . They have no production facilities in the IS and cant build them aboard the ships of the invading fleet . They will also have trouble with native tech from the sphere since the Mechanicum will shoot themselves in the foot by considering it " unholy " and not STC . 

- The problem of the Mechanicum . 

As we all know Mechanicum are crazy and worship toasters . They will not modify and improve there designs because they are " most holy works of the Omnisiah " given to them as STC 's plans . In short , they are stupid and are short changing themselves . 
Com Star will have no such compulsions and will quickly annelise any captured imperial equipment and adapt to it . Com Star is capable of innovative thought , the Mechanicus is not ! 
For the Mechanicum unless they decide to go a bit " heretical " and adapt will lose in the long run . What will they do when they encounter lots of unknown tech that does not fit there pattern of thought / doctrine ? How will they react to mechs , hyper space relays and space ships that do not require navigators freaks and travel instantly between systems ? 
The Com Guards will rally after the initial shock of seen the Battle Servitors and Skitari , will adapt and will win . 
The super weapons of the Mechanicum , the Ordinatus weapons ( i am not sure i have spelled that correctly , please someone advise me ) are basically the equivalent of the super cannons the Germans had in WW 2 , big and impressive to look at but irreplaceable and a logistical nightmare . Light and medium mechs will run circles around them and crush them . Even if a inner sphere house loses one or two full regiments of mechs for every ordinatus weapon destroyed ( 108 mechs per standard regiment ) , the Mechanicum loses far more in the end . Ordinatus cannot be replaced , mechs can . 


- The Titan Problem 

The thing most people will talk about in this tread to be sure . There logic will go something like an orc logic would ( please imagine i speak like an Orc ) : " Titan is big and crushes every mech into dust , titan is big and green and green is best ! Titan has also red paint on it and this will make it go faster ... " 
I am going to surprise everyone by saying that titans are crap compared to mechs ! Great heresy indeed !!!!! 
If the Orcs in Warhammer 40 k can construct Gargants and take out imperial battle titans then sure as hell , the Clans will be able to do the same . 
Titans are big , rare and nearly irreplaceable . How big is a titan legion anyway ? 30 titans or something . How many legions can the imperials bring ? Compare that with the hundreds of IS regiments that every house possesses , each of around 100 mechs and that is not even bringing the Clan Galaxies ( formation larger them regiments ) into question . 
I have no illusions titans are powerful , but even if dozens if not hundreds of mechs go down to them , the titans will still fall . And ones the first titan goes down unless it is obliterated by its team mates , the Com guards will dissect it and soon you will have Titans on the Battle tech side as well . 
Warhound type titans will be countered by company size ( 32 if i remember correctly ) mech formations , Reavers by half a regiment and Imperator class titans by at least a full regiment of assault mechs . Sure the titans might be 100 m tall and bristling with weapons but they will be hit from dozens of places at ones by fast moving mechs . There void shield will eventually go down and when they do .. . . bye bye ancient relic ! 
Also the mechs will not attack alone but in cooperation with space borne IS / clan assets . The battleships of the clans will coordinate orbital fire on titans to bring there voids shield down , ones there shield are weak or non existent the titans get swarmed by mechs . If no space battleship are available to break the void shields of the titans then the clans / IS faction will use special titan killer tactical nuclear warheads . When your cities are burned to the ground by 100 me tall monstrosities you will use any weapons that are at hand even messy nukes . 
Also there are another 2 tactics that a battletech commander could use against titans . Titans are big and ponderous and if they go down they cant get back up without specialist support units . The battletech commander will mine the likely approaches to strategic objectives and when the Unfortunate overconfident titan steps in that location he will detonate the mines and if the explosion if big enough the titan will be brought to his knees . A top heavy Imperator titan is not going to get back up by himself and his fellows are not exactly designed with arms to help him get back up 

: " sorry Princeps but my Reaver has guns for arms and cannot help you get back up " .

Ones he is on his back he is swarmed by dozens of mechs . Bye bye Imperator ! he second tactic that a battletech commander will use goes something like this : ( i admit this is supposition but i think is valid ) , he will convert a few of the biggest drop ship available to him into titan killers ( orc style if you like ) , he will remove the mech and fighter facilities aboard the drop ship and replace them with the biggest weapons available , like i said orc style . Ones the titans have committed to battle the battletech carriers comes and drops a few of there special drop ships right on top of the titan formation . These already powerful ship are now firing on the titans as soon as they hit the upper atmosphere and will continue to fire all they way down and after they have landed . If even these big guns fail then a particularly zealous commander might go " Dakka Dakka Jihad Dakka Dakka " on the Titan and simply crush thousands upon thousands of tones of dropship packed with explosive directly on the titan . If that will not bring down the titans void shields i don't know what will . 
Titans are though but they can be beaten if you improvise and use your mechs accordingly . Under no circumstances should and battletech commander carry out a frontal assault on Titans . 

- The infantry problem . ( also Elementals / Terminators / Dreadnoughts and Protomechs ) 

I really do not need to discuss space marines here , it was done superbly in another tread . They can be killed with the weapons of current day earth . Battletech weaponry will eat them alive . As soon as the Clans get there hands ( this will be quite difficult i admit ) on space marines corpses they will dissect them and will learn from them . This lessons will be incorporated into the existing formidable elemental type troops of the clans , they will become proto-marines in the short run and on par with space marines in the future . 
Elementals are strong enough to rip mechs to shreds if employed properly , they will be strong enough to kill terminators . Elementals can be replaced , " holy " suites of consecrated terminator armor cannot be replaced , at least not as fast . 
Drednoughts are the absolute example of insanity in the warhammer universe , a half dead guy in an sarcophagus with legs and guns attacked to it . . . who come up with such ideas ? 
But seriously Dreds are few and are treated as holy relics . Protomechs on the other hand would be build on an assembly line but the hundreds . Like i said about many other peaces of equipment so far , the imperials will not be able to replace there losses , the clans will not only replace there losses but create specialist troops to counter the imperials . 

- The Imperial guard question . 

Battletech has its share of lasers and plasma thingies and all that . Sphere or clan infantry is better equipped and the human waves assaults of the guard will fail utterly against battlemechs . 

No amount of IG will be able to dislodge entrenched Kuritans deep within the Combine or Davion Guards defending a world as important as Kentares IV or New Avalon . As soon as the first use of atrocities happen , the rally cry of " Remember Kentares ! " will spring from the souls of every true son of the Federation ! A war of national liberation like the one Napoleon lost in Spain or the one USA will lose in Afghanistan will fallow . The only way to win such a war is basically genocide . 

- The problem of Exterminatus 

I refuse to believe that the imperials would be insane enough to use something like " the Life Eater " virus or cyclonic torpedoes to kill a world . If they will , this will almost over night unify the IS and Clans into a new Star League and the Emperor 's reputation will plummet so low Stefan Amarris will appear a saint in comparison . If they do use exterminatus , the cries of " DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR " will resonate through the hyper space relays of thousands of worlds in IS or Clan Space . 

My initial little thesis is complete . The imperium would lose . Please forgive me if my blood run a bit too hot at times . This is my first post apart from the greeting bit and i wanted it to be a good one . I hope my ramblings were at least entertaining if not informative .


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## Blammer (Nov 17, 2009)

Lorgar Davion said:


> I was born to discuss this topic ! Just a joke but seriously , this is as interesting a discussion as we can have .
> 
> - Right from the start i need to point out that he nature of the two universes is quite different . Battletech is SCI-Fi ( mostly what we have today with far more advanced tech ) while Warhammer 40 k is fantasy cloaked as Sci-fi . I mean no disrespect to Warhammer 40 k just want to avoid right from the start a situation like : " my chaos demons will surely rip to tiny shreds any battlemech you care to mention " . I will not get into a insanity like that and i hope no one else will . Please people lets keep the " warp " out of this ! ( Yes i do realize this is very ironic considering the fact that my name starts with " Lorgar " )
> 
> ...


:goodpost:

I totally agree with you.


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## LostIsland (May 7, 2009)

Ah battletech, the good ol' days.
Well constructed argument Lorgar


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

I'd whole heartily agree, especially the comments about mechs vs titans.

I have always put warhounds on about the same level as the heavy-mediums to light-heavies. However if you make that comparrison then you easily see that the warhound is severly under armed when comparring to something like a Mad Cat/Timberwolf.

It would als depend on the time frame you are involving. Imperials would definately have a greater chance of success if they were put up against 3025 level tech than they would if you put them against anything post-clan (3050+). Elementals alone can take a IS PPC and still keep on ticking. I'd put that on almost a Dreadnaught level of resiliancy.

Back to the Titan comments, I only have one thing to say. Axemen and Beserkers I personally have a feeling that those void shields will be overloaded in a matter of seconds against a handful of these badboys


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Simply pit the clans and the IS have the equivalent of dark age tech. The best of the best, mostly frogotten by now. What is the actual height of an atlas? That would be a massively powerful machine on its own. Correct me if i am wrong but what about some of the heavier mechs that can be fitted with jump packs. Assault titans anyone?


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

While I normally don't touch the "let's compare universe x vs. the Imperium" threads, I've long pondered whether a Clan Elemental (particularly one from a Clan that doesn't mind a bit of a brawl and are noted for their Elemental infantry, like Clan Ghost Bear) could go toe to toe with a Space Marine.

What I've always assumed is that because melta weapons are fairly common among military units, it doesn't seem to me that a 'mech-- even something as heavily armored as an Atlas-- could withstand a lot of hits from a squad armed for anti-tank operations. When the dominant form of warfare in Battletech involves Battlemechs, and the Imperium is quite well suited to fighting armor, I don't see how even the very talented pilots from the Clans can stack up.

I've always thought Elemental infantry were probably a notch above a Space Marine, though, if only because elemental armor is more or less a suit of terminator armor with a jump pack and missile launcher. When the skills of the Space Marine and Elemental in question are roughly equal, it does come down to equipment, after all.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

mrrshann618 said:


> I have always put warhounds on about the same level as the heavy-mediums to light-heavies. However if you make that comparrison then you easily see that the warhound is severly under armed when comparring to something like a Mad Cat/Timberwolf.


Just to put this out there, to give people an idea of how different battletech mechs and 40k titans are, the warhound, lightest and least heavily armed or armoured, weighs in at *over* four hundred tonnes. Thats four times the weight of the likes of an atlas and it does not sport nearly the same quantity of weapons that a single atlas is capable of.

On the other hand, that same warhound has a couple energy shields, capable of ignoring most small, medium, and even some heavier firepower while it is armed with weapons meant to dispatch heavy armour, heavy infantry, or other titans also equipped with such shields.

Warhounds are the fastest of the imperial titans (eldar ones are much, much faster) and they are generally only capable of speeds maxxing out in the 42-58 kph range. Keep in mind though, one of these weighs in at over four times that of a single atlas and is able to go the speed of most balanced medium mechs.


As a general idea of what the Imperium is capable of as far as armoured units, the standard leman russ is a 60 ton vehicle. Chimera's, the average transport of the guard, is little over 35 tons; baneblades and other super heavy tanks break 300 tons and are easily armed with weapons designed to deal with large groups or the heaviest of targets.


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

Ohh I understand that the ton system that Btech uses is rather small really. Having things cap at 100 tons is just kind of silly. I was referring more towards general capability. Titans having the void shields and overall sturdyness vs the Mechs overwhelming firepower (I mean come on, a Puma has 2 Clan ER-PPC's and is only like a 35 ton mech) they would be roughly equivalent.

I'm also going off the personal judgement that a 40k Lascannon would be something like a Large Laser from the Btech world.

Went to a convention several years ago where someone had a Clan vs. SM fight. The organizer had several of the toys and lots of the old 25mm Ral Partha elemental suits.
Hunchback IIc and a Mad Cat along with 3 stars of elementals against like 3000 pts of SM. The SM pulled a win by the hair of thier chinny chin chin. (Last lucky shot took out the Mad Cat)


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Keep in mind that Lascannons are NOT the primary weapon for Titans. On the larger Titans, like Emperor class Titans, Lascannons, multi lasers, and heavy bolters are weapons used against targets unworthy of Titan class weapons (infantry, IFVs, main battle tanks).


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

There are lots of situations that could happen in really dangerous situations.

Battletech Pilot: Oh no a big hairy guy with a pint!
Russ: *Leaps up through the cockpit and smashes the pilot's head to pulp*
The moral is never hide the booze from a SW.

Yes Leman Russ can destroy Titans on his own, it's been written down in official fluff before.

So apart from Russ returning from the Warp, we've got Guilliman, healing in stasis ATM according to GW, El'Johnson is in the middle of the Rock probably waiting for the Lion Sword to be returned to him. We might also have Alpharius/Omegon, depending on how you intepret _Legion_. That'a a crack squad of 3/5 Primarchs guarding the Imperium, with their respective Chapters, plus all of those successor Chapters to make maybe half-legions, to deal with any big stuff. 

An Emperor Titan sits back at 400-600 mile range blasting stuff with it's missiles (this is a reasonable estimate, considering that some modern weapons have a 10-mile range. A Hellstorm cannon is made to destroy hive cities so wouldn't have any trouble with the Battletech mechs.
If the Battletech guys attack Mars then there's the small fact of a God buried deep within the crust who has the power to *control technology over long distances.* Then he can call to his mates Nightbringer and Deceiver (Granted the Deceiver wouldn't do to much) and start feeding. Then each C'Tan calls on their vast legions of followers (Necron Warriors) and garngantuan tomb constucts such as a Crypt Stalker or whatever. Then the Imperium/Mech war is over as everything is dissolved or disintergrated or flees to the Webway to last another 100000000 years.

My 2 cents.

Midnight


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Four to six hundred miles is a bit much Midnight; the large titans are able to engage their weapons at decent distances of a couple dozen kilometers, but not hundreds.

Though do remember, for all intents and purposes Guilliman isn't doing squad, not with a fatal neck wound inflicted by a daemon primarchs poisoned blade.


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