# How to beat Nids with Marines



## rcm2216 (Feb 22, 2008)

I need tactics against this list!

I am trying to discover some new tactics with a new army and list I am trying to create against a certain Nid build. It is a mix of Zilla and Horde build.


One of the best players in town plays this following list with great success first because it is a good list and second because he is a good strategist. I have played him twice and we are one for one, but he has massacred everyone else with the list. 

His 1,850 list is as follows:
Hive Tyrant devourers, 3 guards
Hive Tyrant devourers, 3 guards

10 Genestealers
8 Guants without number
8 Guants without number
26 Guants
26 Guants

Fex with barbed strangler
Fex with barbed strangler
Fex with barbed strangler

Fex with barbed strangler and venom cannon
Fex with barbed strangler and venom cannon
Fex with barbed strangler and venom cannon


My list is still a work in progress, but the following is in place so far:
Captain on bike

full bike squad with attack bike
tactical squad with rhino

vindicator
predator- las cannon, heavy bolter
predator- las cannon, heavy bolter

land speeders typhoon squad x2 

Do I shoot the screeners first or start sniping at the big ones first? 

It was apparent the first time that I shot him up and destroyed his defensive screening system he was using to keep his tyrants alive. The close combat tactic did not not work because I lacked the numbers to hurt him enough before he overwhelmed me with numbers. That was with Eldar however. How do I win with Marines against this type of list.


I need tactics against this list!


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## Trandoshanjake (Jul 22, 2008)

Use LOTS of dakka. Heavy bolters in every squad. Lose the bikes, as they are too expensive and not very effective against his current list. Take some assault terminators with TH/SS to beat on his tyrants, possibly with an attached librarian for the force weapon.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Force weapon stopped harming nids this edition.

My advice is bring as much antitank as you possibly can. A full squad of havocs firing five lascannons into his cheesey zillas would rock. Also take note that he has no flying zillas, you can setup in the corner and blast to your hearts content while the main force rumbles forward. Give your predators tri-las. Heavy bolters do them no good when firing at zillas, and a lascannon is no good at killing thirty gaunts. 

With the gaunts, just combat squad a tac squad and tie them up forever if they come back too much. Remember that his nids can't have a cover save unless a full FIFTY percent of the monstrous kmart-sized beast is covered. We had a player at our league that loved so much to claim cover from dust motes on the table.

Watch his movement, nids like to grab that extra inch whenever possible.


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## Salvor (Jul 7, 2008)

Typhoons are good as ypu can blast from a distance with two missile strikes and either krak for MC or frag for horde, plus you get a heavy bolter also.

Thunderfire cannon which can blast his hordes and also slow down his advance.

Predators and whirlwinds also.

Master of the forge with conversion beam, stick him on a bike and start hitting with it.

Just try to keep mech as nids dont like armour is my experience.


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## kungfoomasta (May 8, 2008)

if you can a squad of 10 cc termies 6ss/th 4lc and 2 dreads w assault cannons hvy flamerand ccw to kill the carnies. and go sooty with everything else


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## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

Things to bring if you're fighting nidzilla:
-TH/SS assault terminators inside of a land raider with chaplain cassius
-Typhoon speeders, Missiles wound big bugs on a 2+ with no save
-Whirlwinds to deal with genestealers hiding behind gaunts, as well as gaunts
-Loads of mech


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## jesse (Sep 29, 2008)

actually force weapons still kill nids


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## jesse (Sep 29, 2008)

sorry i was wrong i just read the FAQ
my bad


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

it's been stated above, lots of anti-tank weaponry...

His gaunts will not give the carnifex cover saves so make sure he is playing that correctly. 

I'm not entirely sure if gaunts give a Tyrant a cover save, you'll need to see if the gaunt is more than half as tall as the guard.


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## Pertoleum (Jul 18, 2008)

the vindicator is great
since he seems to be somewhat swarm try and get a devastator with 2x plasma cannons,2x heavy bolters, great for anti gaunt and stealers

as for the tyrants and fex's get terminator cc squad, id throw a chaplian in termie armour in just to make ur guys that much dirtier on the charge

i play my friend nids list once a week and have yet to beat it but i learn somethign every week, the less vehicles you bring to the party the better, their just food for his fexes and tyrants, be careful using combat tactics, the idea of jumping out of combat and rapidfiring him to death seems nice, until you get chased off the board, if your going to cc kills hsi fexs. rember their intiative 2 or 3 so powerfists may not workout for you, for hsi gaunts and stealers all i can say is templates templates templates. Also no one's mentioned it yet but be smart with terrain, if you can prevent him from getting cover your one step closer to victory. to be honest your not gonna get these amazing firing lines( unless your opponenet has no idea what hes doing) so try and keep the terrain on the very edges of the boards.

also measure for synapse EVERYTURN synapse easily slips the mind, his fexes are immune to instinctive behaviour test, but his gaunts arent and at ldhsip 5 chnaces are that theyre failing

also watch out for the tyrnaid inch syndrome, tyrnaid players are often very "over zealous" when moving their guys and when measuring assualt distances, it may seem like an asshole move but be a stickler, it may verywell cost them the game

his lsit is rediculous, you have your worked cut out for you

may the force be with you

hope i helped


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## Wounded (Jan 24, 2009)

Crimzzen said:


> I'm not entirely sure if gaunts give a Tyrant a cover save, you'll need to see if the gaunt is more than half as tall as the guard.


Guards are not MCs so they get cover from being behind gaunts, and if the gaurds are in cover then so is the tyrant so that is a pain.

however, he only has 2 synapse hubs, unfortunately they have 10 wounds each , but this still means that he'll have to cluster up his guys to fit under that 12" synapse radius. I'd just drop as many pie plate templates you can into it and watch his gaunts start dropping by the handful and probably put wounds on the tyrant/gaurds as well.

oh and focus your fire on one MC at a time if nothing else. spreading out your fire will just make them all live that much longer.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Terminators... best answer i can think of

Tyranids have real problems killing 2+ armour save models.... in a 2k game I would advis you taking 3 squads of 10. Keep em basic and take either assault cannon or heavy flamer based on personnal pref (id go assault). Most of his stuff u can now ignore- the tyrant will rip u apart in combat but a squad of 10 termies will easily wipe him out by the time they strike.

MOST important, vs 6 barbed stranglers u will fail pinning tests, especially if you oponent takes some screaming zoanthropes (which would make his list even more lethal). To try to counter this either take a model that gives you stubborn (if he uses psychic scream- Lysander or Pedro) and take a command squad with a company banner- stop your precious squads getting pinned.


When i play vs large termy units i get my 5 screamers in 18" and shoot stranglers at them- fail 1 armour save (and u would be mega lucky not to) and your suddenly have a Ld 4/5 pinning test- its much easier to pin them every tern then to destroy them.


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## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

BRING MISSILE LAUNCHERS! 

I can't emphasize this enough. They wound MC on a 2+, where plasma cannons wound them on a 3+, and either way they aren't getting a save without paying out their asses for a 2+. They also do double duty by dropping templates on gaunts. 

What models do you have to work with or buy? I can help you put together a list.


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## rcm2216 (Feb 22, 2008)

sooch said:


> BRING MISSILE LAUNCHERS!
> 
> I can't emphasize this enough. They wound MC on a 2+, where plasma cannons wound them on a 3+, and either way they aren't getting a save without paying out their asses for a 2+. They also do double duty by dropping templates on gaunts.
> 
> What models do you have to work with or buy? I can help you put together a list.


Maybe some terminators are a good buy.

I want to run a list that has a good element of anti horde and anti armor, hence I have three tanks and the two land speeders. I think that I might need a thunder cannon or whirlwind maybe, but these do not do well against marines........... 

I was looking for specific tactics such as shoot the guants first then go after the monsterous creatures, but the only problem I have had in the past is that the monsterous creatures keep shooting at me while I chip away at the little bugs and hive tyrant groups.


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## Grim Jaw (Apr 19, 2008)

Stick a couple of 10 man tac squads with heavy bolters and flamers in cover to deal with the hordes; a couple of predator annihilators (2x lascannon, twin-linked lascannon) for dealing with his fex's; assault terminators with TH&SS in a land-raider (snipe his MC's then counter-charge with the terminators) and a squad of devastators with 4x lascannons should put the pain on his MC's.

Thin down the horde with bolter+heavy bolter fire, concentrate on one MC at a time until it's killed and use cover.

A large unit of scouts with snipers+missiles will help against his carnifex; maybe invest in master of the forge for increased cover save and conversion beamer?


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## rcm2216 (Feb 22, 2008)

His Nid army list is not unbeatable. I have done it once with Eldar and then lost once with Eldar using two different list. My first list owned his Nids with all the shooting I had in the army. I used 9 total War Walkers with Scatter Lasers and Missile launchers, 2 Wave Serpents with bright lances loaded with dire avengers, and another Wave Serpent with bright lance loaded with fire dragons. I also had to autarches on jetbikes with a squad of jet bikers each. I dropped his screen with ease and hit the big bugs with a lot of dakka, to include to mean charges by my autarchs with those laser lances on his tyrants that went well for me ( I should have took Shining Spears and it would have went better). 

He actually stayed back and did not charge my lines, however we where playing Dawn of War with Kill points. I lost the next time with a different list of Eldarzilla (avatar and three wraithlords with a squad of harlies). I simply did not have the numbers and enough shooting to compensate for all those Nids. It came down to a blood bath with him only having one third of his army left and me only having a squad of avengers in a wave serpent.

I want to duplicate my results with Marines lthis time like I did with my first Eldar list I beat him with pretty soundly with by turn five.


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## rcm2216 (Feb 22, 2008)

Which would you kill first in the list


Elite Fexes with 4 wounds a piece
Fex with barbed strangler 3+
Fex with barbed strangler 3+
Fex with barbed strangler 3+

Heavy Support Fexes with 5 wounds a piece
Fex with barbed strangler and venom cannon 3+
Fex with barbed strangler and venom cannon 3+
Fex with barbed strangler and venom cannon 3+

I would kill the big ones first then handle the elite fexes since they would continue to do the most damage, unless they were a 2+ save MC.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Go for the Heavy Support. 

I like Sternguard. Two units, All with a Combi Flamer, 10 Strong. Also take lysander with them, as one squad gets to re-roll misses with it's Bolters. Have those two combat squads land near the Carnifexes, and use them to Rapid Fire Re-rolling 2+ to Wound. 20 Shots (Or 40) hitting on 3's (One Squad Re-rolling any Misses), wounding on 2's results in;

14/28 Hits, wounding on 2's results in 10-11/20-21 Wounds, which they save on 3's - Results in 4-5/8-9 Wounds. Combine that with a Charge of some Chaplain lead Assault Terminators Dropping out of a Land Raider Crusader and a MC'd Str 10 4 Attack Thunder Hammer - you have a Real hefty chance of annihilating two -three Carnifexes a turn.

Instead of a Chaplain, you might want to invest in Pedro - that way you can have the Deep Striked Sternguard contesting the objectives. Troops should be solely Heavy Bolter and Flamer to counter the Guants, along with a Razorback that mounts a Heavy Bolter. A Scout Squad with a Heavy Bolter and Sniper, and you're putting down something that can strip a few numbers from Tyrant Guards.

Heavy Support Should be a Second land Raider Crusader (as until you get a Carnifex against them, Venom Cannons and Barbed Stranglers do jack shit) and two Vindicators. have a Small Scout Squad with a BP/CCW to counter the enemies Hormagaunt Squads.


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## elkhantar (Nov 14, 2008)

Yeah, sternguard (or anything with hellfire rounds) are your best bet against MCs, rather than lascannons or missile launchers. Assault cannons are very good vs MCs too, since they have a large volume of shots, a chance to rend and still wound unupgraded Carnifices on 4+.

Heavy weapons still have to wound and pierce cover, and if the nid player has any idea of what he's doing, with 36'' range he'll stick those Carnifices in cover.

His list will struggle vs AV14, so capitalize on that and get some LRs. I take you're playing a fairly high points game from his list. He can handle lower AVs just fine (Barbed stranglers are still S8 and will hit any tank side's armour 1/3 of the shots, and the Tyrants will blow any speeder that gets within 18'', so don't ever park one so close).

His list also has very few rending claws, so he'll have problems dealing with terminators. (Don't leave them too much in the open, however. The sheer volume of fire of the tyrants can easily kill a few terminators, even with a 2+ save, and watch out for the Tyrant guards in melee. They may be only additional wounds for the shooty tyrants, but in hand to hand they are even more dangerous than a genestealer!)

Just another advice: I guess you'll already know, but his heavy support carnifices are actually worse than the elite carnifices in melee, so go for those first with the terminators, and try to shoot the others down once you've engaged the HS ones in melee.


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## rcm2216 (Feb 22, 2008)

elkhantar said:


> Yeah, sternguard (or anything with hellfire rounds) are your best bet against MCs, rather than lascannons or missile launchers. Assault cannons are very good vs MCs too, since they have a large volume of shots, a chance to rend and still wound unupgraded Carnifices on 4+.
> 
> Heavy weapons still have to wound and pierce cover, and if the nid player has any idea of what he's doing, with 36'' range he'll stick those Carnifices in cover.
> 
> ...


Actually I do not know how the Heavy support fex are worse off. They have and extra gun and wound over the elite fexes.


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## LegendX (Jun 16, 2008)

rcm2216 said:


> Fex with barbed strangler
> Fex with barbed strangler
> Fex with barbed strangler



Are they BS and Scything Talons?

Reason I ask is Carnifex's MUST take two weapon biomorphs.

LX


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## rcm2216 (Feb 22, 2008)

LegendX said:


> Are they BS and Scything Talons?
> 
> Reason I ask is Carnifex's MUST take two weapon biomorphs.
> 
> LX



I am not sure about what you mean. Are you saying that the Fex has to take two weapons as a mandatory thing. I am not sure if it does or not, because I do not know the Nid codex as well as actual Nid players. I played Nid's two years ago but I did not play with Elite fexes and I always carried the Venom and Barbed Strangler on my heavy support fexes.


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## Wounded (Jan 24, 2009)

> Are you saying that the Fex has to take two weapons as a mandatory thing.


Yup, that's how it is.


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## rcm2216 (Feb 22, 2008)

Would this list do the trick against the Nid list below

Kahn on his bike
Chaplain in Terminator Armor in Land Raider

Bike Squads with Powerfist, Attack bike with Multi Melta and two plasma guns x2

Terminator Squad with Cyclone Missile Launcher (I am leaning towards assault terminators so far, but I might miss the shooting capabilities, plus I do not have the Assault Terminator models yet)

Land Raider Crusader (this carries the Terminators and Chaplain)

Predator with side sponson Lascannon

Predator with side sponson Lascannon

His 2,000 list is as follows:
Hive Tyrant devourers, 3 guards
Hive Tyrant devourers, 3 guards

10 Genestealers
8 Guants without number
8 Guants without number
26 Guants
26 Guants

Fex with barbed strangler
Fex with barbed strangler
Fex with barbed strangler

Fex with barbed strangler and venom cannon
Fex with barbed strangler and venom cannon
Fex with barbed strangler and venom cannon


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## Wounded (Jan 24, 2009)

he has such a bland boring list that it's obscene. Tell him that maybe he should try building a list with a little flavor.. then CRUSH his prototypes while their still rough drafts, that's how i'd beat him.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

rcm2216 said:


> Would this list do the trick against the Nid list below...
> 
> His 2,000 list is as follows:
> Hive Tyrant devourers, 3 guards
> ...


His list is about as fun as a pair of socks used for a week in a row

This is what I'd try to do, sadly I dont have the SM codex tho...

3 units of 6 assault terminators in 3 crusaders, 2 scout units with sniperrifles to fill core, 2 jump pack captains with artificier armour and twin LC.

The 2 captains should be able to hold 1 of the big gaunt units each in CC for about the whole battle thanks to good save and killingpower, maybe even make their ways out after some turns. The Terminators and LRs hunt the big things Scouts shoot stealers and monsters afterwards:good:

Another way of very fun game is pressing in 5 LRs on 2k as SM. 3 HS and 1 for Ass Termies and 1 for Termies, 2x5 scouts and a HQ. Here all things deply in vehicles, and maybe runs out if he is close. He will probably like this one even less:laugh:

Sadly not everyone owns 5 LRs so it can be a bit tricky getting that one working:wink:


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## rcm2216 (Feb 22, 2008)

Thanks for all the great advice.............


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