# Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions or both?



## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

For the Eldar army I'm going to be starting in March/April I'm looking at assault-type units and I'm currently wondering where the debate stands on Howling Banshees vs Striking Scorpions, or whether I should use both as I'm thinking of doing.


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## Blammer (Nov 17, 2009)

From what I know of Eldar, Striking Scorpions have more attacks but Banshees have power weapons. This makes the Scorpions better against Ork boyz and guardsmen while the banshees slaughter space marines and Terminators.

All in all, it depends.

Hope it helped.:victory:


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

The problem with Howling Banshees is they have a Strength of 3; this can be pivitol, since the units they're designed to kill require a 5+ to wound.
I'm a fan of Striking Scorpions; I generally take a squad of 10, give the Exarch a Biting Blade, and make Karandras one of my HQ units to lead them...


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## ninja skills (Aug 4, 2009)

banshies - go first with power weapons but are only S3 (doom helps here)

scorpions - more attacks at S4 but no power weapons.

being eldar they are tuned to do specific jobs, banshies for MEQ and scorpions for horde armies, so it depends what you normally face. Using one of each is a bad idea but you may want to use the points elsewhere.

personally scorpions win out for me, the S4 just pips it for me


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

Odds are they both will end up going 1st...

My philosophy is that the Scorpions have a better survival rate, and so win out in my opinion.

All in all, just toss a Doomseer near by and they will both get the job done.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

I was thinking that if I went for Banshees I'd back them up with an Autarch.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I use to play Eldar and I say Scoirpion 7/10 times. Unless Im facing Necs or Deathwing Armies I see no reason to take Banshees. Scoirpions have a better save, more attacks, and higher strength. This means a Squad of 10 can still kill MEQ Squads with ease through sheer attacks alone, plus unlike Banshees you dont need a Farseer dedicated to their fight. Also take a Exarch with a Scoirpion Claw, sure he hits last, but he can bring down thos MCs and Termies with his mass attacks.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Double Post


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## obimoshman (Oct 21, 2009)

The Sullen One said:


> I was thinking that if I went for Banshees I'd back them up with an Autarch.


NOOOOOO just NOOOOOOO.....

Ok banshees if u run them need a doom seer to be run with them wounding on 5+ needs rerolls badly. Autarch only really brings more power weapon attacks.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Actually, against almost EVERYTHING Banshees are better. Even against Guardsmen, Scorpion only cause 1 additional wound over banshees, because 1/3rd of your wounds will be saved. Frankly, for the sake of 1 wound on Guard I'll take the ability to kill 5x Terminators on the charge.

Scorpions are only better if you anticipate being shot. If you're being shot, you're not playing correctly (or you're unlucky).

Banshees all the way, every time. Especially with a Doom/Fortune Seer. With Doom you're killing, what, about 7 Termies on the charge? Lovely.


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

Don't forget that those Termies will be negating 1/3 of those Banshee wounds, so only 3.333 dead Termies on the Charge. That's a good thing though, since you would be shot to death if you ran through a whole squad.

It is the armor save that makes the negligible difference in kills against Guardsmen stand out. Guardsmen are capable enough to put a handful of wounds on Eldar, but the extra bit of armor comes in handy there. 

Against Orks and Gaunts don't even bother with Banshees, the Scorps will likely do better there. That is not counting FnP Nobz or MegaNobz, Doomseer Banshees can make them cry.


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## Raptors8th (Jul 3, 2009)

banshees need doom. Period. When you give them doom though they become a one hit wonder, raping anything but orks in CC. SS are nice if you fight horde though, and have the ability to get that first turn charge to tie up stuff. So it really depends on what your generally playing. If it's marines then take the banshees, if it's orks, guard, or nids than take the Scorpions.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Okay so Banshees need a farseer backing them up, no problem. One question though, why is everyone so fond of using rape, raped, or raping when it comes to describing great victories?


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

It's traditional.

Kill the menfolk.
Rape the Buildings.
Set fire to the women.

At least, that's what I *think* my daddy told me... :laugh:


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## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

The Sullen One said:


> Okay so Banshees need a farseer backing them up, no problem. One question though, why is everyone so fond of using rape, raped, or raping when it comes to describing great victories?


Thats a good question and now that you mention it it does make me feel a little bit ashamed with myself. That said I think the answers simple enough. Rape is a horrible negative word that ususaly represents (even when not reffeirng to the crime) one person dominating another in ways the other person would not like. The words "My banshees raped your Space Marines" pretty much sums it up.

ANd that is all I have to say about that. I dont know if I'll ever beable to use that word again now.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

I find Banshees better, but due to current rules limitations (needing an errata/update) banshees are nerfed. They now strike at I1 when charging a unit in cover which means banshees can only attack a unit in the open, this is due to the wording of their entry, which iirc stated something like negates the benefits of cover, well now when you assault without frag you get I1, instead of being a benefit to the defender, cover is now a penalty to the attacker. Because of this, banshees although wonderful are taken far less.

In terms of damage output banshees have similar levels to scorpions even against hoard armies per attack. Scorpions also lack fleet of foot, so they're slower, which can make a difference.

GUARDSMAN
I mean, 1*0.66*0.5 = 0.33 Kills a Banshee NO SAVE
Compared to
1*0.66*0.66*0.66 = 0.28 Wounds

Total Damage Versus Guardsman:
Banshee 2 Attacks: 0.66
Scorpion 3 Attacks: 0.84

About a 27% increase in efficiency versus hoard armies, Banshees aren't that horrible when the return attacks come as they have a 4+ compared to 3+, from shooting granted it's a huge difference, but from melee it's minimal, especially considering they ignore all armour saves and strike first all the time (well should...).

Marines:
Banshee: 1*0.5*0.33 = 0.165
Scorpion: 1*0.5*0.5*0.33 = 0.0825

Total Damage:
Banshee 2 Attacks: 0.33
Scorpion 3 Attacks: 0.2475

Orks:
1*0.5*0.33 = 0.165
1*0.5*0.5*0.84 = 0.21

It's only versus Orks that scorpions really go into their own....

So I'll give a summary of which is best from a mathematical/rules point of view:

Scorpion:
Pro:
T4 Lightly Armoured
T3 Unarmoured
Resilient to damage
Con:
Slow, no fleet.

Banshee:
Pro:
T3 5+ or better
T4 heavily armoured
Fast
Con:
Slightly Less Resistant to Damage
Worthless against any enemy in cover

Were it not for how worthless the Banshees are against enemies in cover I would say they are definately superior to the scorpions often enough to justify taking them over scorpions, however their current rule making them worthless against models in cover has invalidated their use.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Styro-J said:


> Don't forget that those Termies will be negating 1/3 of those Banshee wounds, so only 3.333 dead Termies on the Charge. That's a good thing though, since you would be shot to death if you ran through a whole squad.
> 
> It is the armor save that makes the negligible difference in kills against Guardsmen stand out. Guardsmen are capable enough to put a handful of wounds on Eldar, but the extra bit of armor comes in handy there.
> 
> Against Orks and Gaunts don't even bother with Banshees, the Scorps will likely do better there. That is not counting FnP Nobz or MegaNobz, Doomseer Banshees can make them cry.


3 termies dead on the charge is pretty awesome for a fight against essentially the best models in the game! You're looking around 40pts a termie on average, about 3 banshees per termie points wise. I think wiping out 120pts in a charge for a 160pt unit is pretty damn good, geez, you want to anihilate a termi squad in one round, that's a bit Overpowered.


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

It just has to do with the whole Aspect thing.

The Every Eldar Unit Has A Specific Job thing. Termies and Marines are Banshee's job. Ork Boyz, Gaunts, and Guardsmen will fall more under a Scorpion's territory. 

The whole Mech wave that is so prominent now has almost completely negated the need for Fleet. Sure it still helps in some situations, but the advantage it gives is minimal now that both units can have a Wave Serpent.


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## Arkanor (Jan 1, 2010)

Banshees are much better if you support them with Doom. Scorpions can perform independently and fare better than banshees in doing so.


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## The Sullen One (Nov 9, 2008)

Styro-J said:


> It just has to do with the whole Aspect thing.
> 
> The Every Eldar Unit Has A Specific Job thing. Termies and Marines are Banshee's job. Ork Boyz, Gaunts, and Guardsmen will fall more under a Scorpion's territory.


In which case Banshees will be seeing a lot more use in my army.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Also, unless you're using Dark Reapers (crap in sub-2k games), Fire Dragons (wrong target) or a Double-Prism Large Blast, the Eldar actually have very little in terms of MEQ killing.

However our basic troops choices come with weapons to kill Orks/Guard on 4s/3s with no save, and all our good heavy weapons get 3/4 shots that kill on 2s.

To address this imbalance, I take Banshees every time. I can't think of a more cost-effective MEQ killer off the top of my head. If I want to kill Hordes, I'll use my 64-shot 2x troop choices to do it. :biggrin:


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