# WoC HeLp?



## Lord Zephyer (Nov 14, 2010)

I have just recently joined the warhammer fantasy gaming hobby and the heresyonline community and after looking through a couple threads seeing people request help and in turn getting some great assistance from the members here. I then thought hey why cant i ask for some great advice?

Well at the moment i have decided to go to the Dark side and got a WoC codex and i'm reading at all the stuff in here and its mind boggling and i have no clue were to start in building a army.

So here's my question: Where should i start in my quest for bloodbath and what do i do and what do i look for when building a WoC army? all helpful C/C would be much appreciated. :grin:


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## WinZip (Oct 9, 2010)

Depending on how big your army will be (lets say 2k) I would have one or two heros (one being a sorcerer, mage, etc), 3 Core units (one unit being your chaos warriors), 3 Special units and 1 or 2 Rare units. I would get more specific on what to pick but i dont have the codex . hope this helps.


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## cain the betrayer (Oct 12, 2009)

You should start at how you want to play your army and that starts at the core. Do you want only chaos marauders or Warriors or maybe even mixes or a horde of monsters? If you go with the not monsterous side you should look if you want to go mono-god or just mixed. I hope this helps.

May the changer of ways bless you.


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## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

I will second what winzip said. It will heavily depend on how many points you are building to but generally you want to have two heroes, one being a sorcerer, and the rest or your army should be built up around a solid core of chaos warriors, preferably 2 regiments. Then you just fill out your points with whatever floats your boat. I really like a combination of marauder horsemen and knights for their speed, but a regiment of Chosen is also a popular choice. The thing about the WoC is that you are going to find that most of the time you have fewer models on the field but that they are pretty hard hitting. Just pick a couple of units that you like and just add them in and play test a couple of games to see what works for you.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Get lots of warriors and sorcs. nuff said. lol 

But hey Welcome to heresy!


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## Lord Zephyer (Nov 14, 2010)

Thx for the advice! but i'm still a little confused.

I really like the Chaos Warrior models alot, and the Lords and Sorceres look cool but i'm not sure which to take. One does magic and another cc monster both have their advantages so its hard to choose. In the codex mauraders look way cheaper then chaos warriors so are they better to fill out as a core choice so i wont be outnumbered? i'm not sure on being dedicated, but i will if it helps improve my warriors. 

2 quick questions:

Do i have to paint the dedicated models in specific colors? (pink = slannesh, red = khorne, etc.) cause i really just want a uniform army that has a base color scheme and maybe a simple deviation on a few. 
Also which is better a Lord or Sorc or Daemon prince? ( kinda looking for pro's and con's on them)

( P.S- i'm hoping to start at least 1k and expanding from their)


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## WinZip (Oct 9, 2010)

Pick both  Lords are good for CC and you need a sorcerer to participate in the magic phase of the battle (an intricate part of Warhammer Fantasy)


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## Wasabi (Aug 24, 2010)

You could paint the entire army polkadots if you wanted to. A lot of people like a themed army and paint it as such (green = nurgle, red = khorne, pink = slaanesh, tzeentch = ...profit?), but it isn't required at all. Just paint the army however you want, in whichever way you enjoy. If you start painting the way everyone else tells you to, it's no longer your army and you'll end up being bored and/or regretting it entirely. If you really wanna have some notion of which god you follow, paint the banners that way and nothing else.

It depends on your own personal tastes. I really truly hate the Marauder models and for that reason I never take Marauders. They start off cheap, but add Marks and Great Weapons and they become overpriced fleshy fruit cakes that die really fast. Pure Warriors is my poison of choice, they're just a walking meat grinder that is incredibly hard to kill.

This is what I normally build my list around:

Lord:
Lvl 4 Tzeentch Sorcerer Lord
-Infernal Puppet
-Talisman of Preservation (for challenges)

Hero:
Exalted BSB
-Doom Banner if I'm running a Hellcannon(s)

Core:
19 Warriors w/ Musician + Standard Bearer
-Mark of Tzeentch
-Shields

19 Warriors w/ Musician + Standard Bearer
-Mark of Khorne
-Halberds
-Shields (unless I'm facing WoC, then no shields)

Special and Rare I just pick whatever I'm in the mood to use. Sometimes I take 5 Knights, sometimes a Hellcannon, sometimes a Giant with Mark of Slaanesh. Pick what you like the look of and what plays the most to your style.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

laughing man is right,

you always want Warriors and can you paint them however you want (l run every mark on my men)

as for rare / Special every player has his own way for more info (l know its a long read) look here.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72134


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## Flindo (Oct 30, 2010)

welcome to the hobby!, now, I played with some people that play as chaos, and from my experience against them I can say this, Khorn is the god of power and nurgle is the god of desease, thats what I know, but because nurgle is the god of desease for some reason nurgle players cannot resist poison, so if your route is to be ammune to poison that isnt the route to go, thats the most of what I know as far as chaos goes, sorry that I couldnt help more, my lizards are the opposite of chaos lol, we are the goodguys!

EDIT: your aloud to paint your army whatever you want, if you seen my lizard army, you see that they are all themed under my custom made chapter, the blood lizards! (the stegadon has red warpaint to show hes a part of the bloodshed! and the cold ones needent be painted with warpaint because they have riders)


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

XxDreMisterxX said:


> Get lots of warriors and sorcs. nuff said. lol
> 
> But hey Welcome to heresy!


Hey, nice! You've been reading the Games Workshop Tactics Articles.

Now, let's look at how the rest of the game states - 

Warriors are good, as are Sorcerors. But there are some things that army requires - firstly, a BSB. 

Secondly, Warshrines. Pure Warriors just aren't good enough to cope against buffed enemy units or gunlines/magic covens without Warshrines (or rather, they meerly struggle, whereas with the Warshrine, Khornate Warriors get a potential 4 S6 Attacks in CC.

Then, you need something fast, but strong - and you can't go far wrong with Dragon Ogres. Tough, and capable of taking on Armoured units - something even Chaos Warriors trouble with as a whole.

Alternatively, Troll lists work extremely well - again, Warhsrines, and a BSB are requirements, but so is Throgg, and the loss of all Chaos Warriors. They're too expensive to use. I like running Galrauch, as then you get a Fighty Hero, Flying, Dragon, Super Breath Attacks, and a Level 4 Tzeentch Caster Knowing all the spells (meaning you can take a secondary Tzeetch caster). Dragon Ogres fit well with the list - they can keep up, and can take on armour. The best thing is that enemies who expect to face WoC often go for Metal - killing half a unit with a single spell is generally cause for shits ad giggles - taking Trolls means that 4 out of 7 Lore of Metal Spells is useless, and one of them is only rarely going to be pulled off.

Also - people this is an advice forum - it's nice to know that you're keen to help, but at least play the goddamn army and know how it works without telling people what must be taken.


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## Wasabi (Aug 24, 2010)

Vaz said:


> Hey, nice! You've been reading the Games Workshop Tactics Articles.
> 
> Also - people this is an advice forum - it's nice to know that you're keen to help, but at least play the goddamn army and know how it works without telling people what must be taken.


:ireful2:

Wow, really? This is the exact way to prevent anyone from trying to help new players out. You might want to try getting off of your elitist high horse and join the rest of us uneducated, but friendly, players.

Did you ever stop to think that the advice people gave here was the same way they found it easiest to start playing and to learn the army? Obviously not. Instead they're criticized and belittled for saying what worked for them, even if it follows what GW articles offer.

Maybe some players can't afford to buy every single model, or have had the time to proxy every single model in all types of army formations to give advice on every unit, so they gave advice for the units they have used. Just because we may not have used every model doesn't mean we don't know how the rest of the army plays out. Maybe some people, like myself, only play against 1 or 2 different armies in total so there's no reason to use certain units and, as such, have no experience with them.

Before you go putting everyone down because we're not as good as you, oh holy one, try thinking a little bit before you bash others. We did our best to help with the knowledge and experience we had. If it wasn't "good" enough for you, then add whatever is missing, but don't be a jerk and insult the people that took the time out of their day to try and help someone else when they had no obligation to. 

Your 500000 posts don't make you better than us. In fact, if you read over the posts in this thread, everyone tried to build on advice already given and tried to give ways for Lord Zephyr to customize his army, in looks and unit composition, to his own tastes. You're the only one in this thread that has shown any negativity, everyone else kept it friendly and inviting, sharing their own personal touches to the way they play their army.

I'm sure you're an excellent player, that you know everything this army has to offer, but if I was a new player and read your post I'd be really quick to skip over anything else you'd have to say with an attitude like that.

To everyone else that posted in this thread, thanks! k:


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

But Vaz!! GW is so in-depth with all their strats and tactics that its really hard not to listen to their mass amounts of wisdom they offer to the competitive field. I mean if we listen to the creators of the game on how to play correctly then we are sure to win.  
((<<<<<<----------Sarcasm)) lolz


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## Kulzanar (Aug 10, 2010)

Wasabi, chill mate, no need to go to eachothers throat. And Vaz, tone it down as well. You make a point with saying people need to stop telling others what needs to be taken. Unfortunately, I'd look into the mirror if I were you. Every advice I see of you is always the same, always your own lists. I've never seen a moment where you go into detail on every possible unit. You play the monstrous horde, which is fine by me. But when giving advice it's always about dragon ogres, warshrines and other beasts. That is NOT giving advice, that's projecting your own list onto new players. I play a list that has none of those things, no dragon ogres, no warshrines or any of that and it has won every battle I tried it out against various armies and I'm not talking about 2-3 games, and even then I'm thinking of changing it because I think I can make a better one. I appreciate your input on this forum and into the game but before telling people they need to advice on all, make sure you don't cut into your own flesh.

Now to go back on topic. Welcome to the hobby and may the dark gods bless your progress as you offer your enemies to them. Now the Warriors of Chaos, chosens of the true gods, destroyers of the world. To feel their touch is to be enlightenend and so on and on.

When you build a list you'd best decide if it's 2000 or 2250. In my experience the 250 can create a whole different list, it's not always just adding a unit but mostly turning your 2000 list upside down.

Then, now we have the characters. Chaos chars are awesome, capable of doing many things (in their genre ofcourse) but this also reflects in their point cost. A fully equipped lord will go easily up to 400 points, while heroes tend to be near 200. Now chaos is pretty straight forward, you don't need to mind the shooting phase, just move, magic and combat. The lord mostly decides wether you want to focus more on magic or combat, a lvl 4 is great in blasting his enemies into nothingness. A normal combat lord can take up every challenge and behead it three times before it even draws it weapon. Heroes are quite the same but just in a lesser form. Read the lores of chaos and be amazed, they have very good lores and need not to fall back onto the basic lores. I can't really say more without going into detail onto several builds but I'd give you the advice to just try out what you like and certainly don't forget to combine chaos magic items with those in the BRB. 

Then we come to core, this depends on your play style. Do you mind being with few but powerfull or do you just want to put a real horde onto the table. Marauders and warriors are the workhorses of the Chaos army. Where marauders are plentiful and low point costs, warriors bring in armour and strenght to the front. They both have the advantage of high I and WS (wars more ofc than marauders). I have always preferred warriors because I just like how one man can take on many, now put a lot of those one mans together and you have a doomsday party. Marauders are not to be underestimated, having various weapon choices they can fufill many parts. (It's also less fun when a sorcerer miscasts in a group of warriors than marauders) But don't be afraid of outnumbering, you're chaos, you'll tend to be outnumbered anyway, even a full marauder army gets outnumbered by armies like skaven, undead, empire at times even. Chaos is a specialist army with units that fufill certain jobs (all centered around mayhem and slaughter ) I know steadfast seems like a dreadful thing but it's not. Definately not when you throw the punches, it may take a combat phase or 2, 3 to grind through an enemy unit, but it will work. And mostly if it take that long then that's a pricey unit and you'll make up more than enough points.

Other core choices are marauder horsemen and warhounds, now how much fun an all out warhorse army with vanguard seems. I wouldn't advice it. These are two units almost always taken (when taken) to clean up low point cost units and give support like flank or rear charges in a combat. 

For special choices, chosens are really popular and they are a good unit, it is best though to place this unit within range of a warshrine because otherwise they aren't worth much more than warriors except for the blessing. Knights are also a popular choice, and why not? They are the nr. 1 knights in the game with a consitent 1+ as and two str 5 attacks even after the charge. This places them higher than lance using knights such as empire knights, elven knights, bretonnia,... Ofcourse high point cost and low model count tend to be their disadvantage. Chariots are sometimes seen but mostly depends on the list and what you like, try them out and decide if you can use them or not. 

Then dragon ogres, these are a very good unit, I've tried them and I found them very good, they move and hit just like knights, their disadvantage is that they are less resistant and have a low I, making it likely your opponent will atleast kill one of them before they do anything. Ofcourse putting a big unit of them solves this but that's very very costly.
Trolls, great things, have a very fun ability with their vomit and can hit hard, their regeneration rule is just awesome. Keep them into range of the general though otherwise they'll be standing there dumbfound. Their disadvantages are stupidity, I 1 and that's quite it, you can say they're slow in moving as well but they can back up warriors or marauders very well. Also very cheap. 

Ogres aren't bad but I've never really liked this unit. I can not say much about this unit because I've never really tried them, they are a bit the same as dragon ogres but with the difference of less hard hitting (unless equipped with GW), slower and also not that resistant. They have their advantages but I'd try to find them out yourself or through someone else.
Then forsaken, this unit might seem cool and super but they aren't. A to high point cost for what they do, they are worse than warriors but more costly. So more points, less I, less WS, paper armour for +2 M and a possibility of more attacks, when rolling a 1 they're the same as warriors. And by giving a unit warriors add. hand weapons and frenzy they have as much attacks as if you'd roll a 5 or 6 on the D3 attacks. So imo not worth it. I think they've just been put in there so GW can sell more of the mutation sprues.

Then we're of to rare choices. A difficult choice is to be made here unless you are certain on what you want. Spawns, warshrines, hellcannon, shaggoth and giant. They all add that something extra and special to your force. It's hard to go into detail so I'd say read their rules, imagine if they belong in your army perhaps even try them out in ones or twos (and threes and fours when referring to the spawn) and see if they can intrigue you. Remember though, a hellcannon is a monster and handler and no warmachine, this tends to be overlooked by opponents and starting WoC players.

Also, don't go for the 500 then build to 2000 crap (pardon the language). You'll fully feel your army and how they work when trying them out together as one armored fist of chaos. Proxy if you need, find an opponent that doesn't mind, if he does well than he's something I won't say on these forums here but yeah. People need to understand a proxy is something a player is trying out. Further I wish you a lot of luck in finding your list and hope you have a good time with Warriors of Chaos, and if not may Khorne use your skull for his throne then, na just kidding, or ain't I? 

Oh, and remember. To Khorne thou shalt give your enemies skull, to Slaanesh, their still-beating hearts, to Nurgle the contents of their slit guts and to Tzeentch their dying breath. March forth and spread the taint.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Welcome to the forums, first off.

Buying the battalion box is actually a good place to start. Unlike the overwhelming majority of those boxes, the Warriors of Chaos one contains stuff you -will- use, and nothing you won't. 

Something important to remember, I think, that often gets overlooked by metagaming, is that Fantasy is an altogether different beast than 40k, and can't be approached the same way. While what you bring matters to a certain degree, how you play it is far more important. All the advice in the world is all well and good, but in the end, you're going to have to experiment a bit and find what works for you-- there is no hard and fast "right" way to do things in Fantasy the way there is in 40k these days.

I tend to suggest new Aspiring Champions choose a god. While you can run all four marks in your army if you like, I've found that an army focused around a single power tends to have a lot more synergy than one that's heavily mixed. It also helps theme your army as far as looks go, so you end up with a coherent-looking army on the table rather than a mish-mash of different units. 

Once that's out of the way, you'll want to establish a solid core of Warriors. All the options are good, so you won't go too far wrong arming them with whatever seems coolest to you. I'm a big fan of hand weapon and shield on Warriors of Khorne or Tzeentch (who fight as well as any other god's two hand weapon warriors, but have a point of armor on them in the case of the former, or an improved parry save in the case of the latter) and halberds on Warriors of Nurgle, Slaanesh, or Undivided units (as two WS5, S5, I5 attacks is hard to argue with, and it's a point cheaper than a great weapon.)

Next, you'll want to figure out your "auxiliaries"-- you've got a strong core of Warriors, and your characters are invariably some of the most powerful in the game. But you need some chaff to bulk up the army's numbers and to feed into the meat grinder so your Warriors get into the most advantageous position when they get stuck into combat. Marauders with great weapons are a popular choice, as are marauder horsemen with flails. Warhounds are inexpensive and can be used as a "throwaway" deployment, to place before you put down anything you actually care about, and get a better idea of where your opponent's elite units are going to be deployed. They can also provide a solid flanking unit or interceptor for enemy fast cavalry, if you bring enough of them in a unit. 

Finally, you'll want to consider the fast elements of the army. Knights, Marauder Horsemen, Chariots, Ogres, and Dragon Ogres all seem fairly unique, but at the end of the day, they functionally do the same thing. They're all fast-moving and hard hitting, and the choice of which you bring is largely cosmetic, I think. Knights are an iconic Chaos unit, and you'll never go too far wrong with them if you use them as a flanker unit in conjunction with your Warriors, or as a shock unit against gunlines (they can survive the stand and shoot reaction without breaking a sweat.) Chariots, ogres, and dragon ogres all rely on the first turn of combat, and can be decent shock units, but -have- to be supported by other units like Warriors or Marauders, whereas sometimes, knights can go it alone. Finally, Marauder Horsemen are individually inexpensive as cavalry go, so you can bring a large unit of them, and when given flails, can be downright devastating on a charge. Marauder Horsemen are probably the best fast cavalry in the game as far as combat effectiveness goes-- where most fast cavalry are horse archers and the like, Marauder Horsemen are able to use their extra maneuverability to ensure you get a flank or a rear charge.

To summarize-- go with what looks good to you. Picking a god helps theme your army, but isn't absolutely necessary. Make sure you've got your bases covered, and you won't go too far wrong.


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