# Sticky  Picking An Army



## The Son of Horus

I've seen a lot of threads popping up lately about picking a new army, so I thought I'd make a sticky topic with some general guidelines for deciding where to throw your lot in the 41st Millenium.

There are a few questions you need to ask yourself before you get started.

-How much am I willing to spend?

-How big an army do I want / how big an army do I need to play at the size my group plays at?

-Which models do I like?

-Am I more concerned about winning the game at all costs, or am I out for a good time?

-Am I a painter/modeller before a gamer, or a gamer before a painter/modeller?

-How long have I been involved in the GW hobby?


Financially, any army CAN be easy on your wallet, as these things go. Necrons are by far the most inexpensive army to build financially, as the Battle Force boxes contain pretty much everything you'll need. It's just a question of how many Battle Forces you'll need to build your army to the appropriate size, and then getting a couple Necron Lords. Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines of all flavors are probably the next in line on the financial ladder, followed then by pretty much everyone else. 

I've found that in short order, you'll lose interest in an army if you think their models are lame, even if they play really well. There are no bad armies in the game in a gaming sense, so you might as well pick something you'll like modelling, painting, and having to look at. 

Your choice of models, when you've selected your army, is really a question of whether you're building an army list specifically to win, or if you'd just as soon build some units to a vague points cost, figure out the concrete details later, and have fun with it. If your approach is a more competitive one, then you'll probably be happier building the army to a pre-set army list that's been designed to take on all comers equally well, using the trump cards that the given army has to offer. A more casual approach often leaves you with more models that you won't use every game, but also tends to make a more fluffy army in the end. 

Some models are simply harder to paint than others. If you fancy a challenge painting, Eldar might be up your alley. If you're not much for modelling and painting, then Necrons might be for you. Some people are bothered by not having painted armies, some aren't. It's a question of how much work you want to put into the army, and whether or not you consider it a chore. Armies that are painted because you like to paint come out looking far sharper on average, but you can still make a very good looking Space Marine, Tau, or Necron army without putting a whole lot of effort into the models if you aren't too big on the hobby side of the hobby.

Picking the right army for your experience helps out a fair bit as well. Here's a rough breakdown of how I look at armies overall, in terms of learning curve, ease of modelling, and whatnot.

*Chaos Space Marines*-- Very easy to learn, though difficult to master. A great starting point in the hobby, as you're free to paint them and model them however you like-- wacky things don't look too out of place most of the time, so if you screw up on a model, no one is likely to notice. Financially, Chaos is on the cheaper end of things as well. On the table, a Chaos army's advantages are good armor saves, exceptional close combat ability, and excellent basic troops; while their disadvantages tend to be a low model count. Chaos Space Marines are individually extremely tactically flexible, as they're armed with a boltgun, bolt pistol, and close combat weapon. In 5th Edition, this lets them easily adapt to either a more ranged firefight or fight in close combat as needed-- the range that 5th Edition takes place at makes Chaos Space Marines quite possibly the most flexible individual models in the game at the moment.

*Daemonhunters*-- On the more difficult end of things to play with, as the model count is phenominally low. They're a tad bit pricey as most of the models are metal, as well. Daemonhunters offer a huge array of modelling options, though, as no two Inquisitors and their retinues are alike. On the table, a Daemonhunter army's advantages are a wide array of specialized abilities, high ability values, and impressive anti-infantry firepower, while disadvantages lie in overspecialization and low model count. In the new edition of 40k, Grey Knights come into a new element, as they're optimized for the intense, close-range pace that the game has taken on. Powerful template weapons, such as the incinerator, are also at the daemonhunter's disposal, which makes them a potent choice for 5th Edition games.

*Daemons of Chaos*-- A few things stand out-- Daemons can be played with an identical army list in both 40k and Fantasy, as far as model selection goes, so you can get a two for one deal with them, in essence, as long as you mount them on square bases. Barring it being an official Games Workshop event, nobody will say anything if you have daemons on square bases in the 41st Millenium. In 40k, Daemons are a highly specialized army, and take a bit of finesse. There's not a whole lot of shooting, and you have to rely a little bit on luck to determine which half of your army decides to show up first. Based on what I've seen so far, I'd reccomend them to someone who's been in the hobby a while. Perhaps not as long as someone who should be playing Eldar or Sisters of Battle well, but still not a new gamer. The Daemons of Chaos army's advantages on the table are exceptional close combat ability with the ability to quickly engage before the opponent can really react; with disadvantages primarily being low shooting and only a 5+ invulnerable save to protect most models. 

*Dark Eldar*-- The general consensus is that Dark Eldar are the hardest army to play with, and have an extremely steep learning curve. They're Direct-Only for the moment, so getting your hands on them requires a little extra effort. The models are old, and show their age-- they weren't great, even for their time. If that doesn't bother you, though, the army is possibly the most devastating in the game in the hands of a skilled player. The Dark Eldar army's advantages are speed and short-range firepower, disadvantaged by fragility and low model count.

*Eldar*-- Eldar are a painter's army. Each squad type has its own distinctive costume, and you can really go to town on Harlequins and some of the grav vehicles. A lot of the range is metal, so they're kind of expensive. The army is pretty fragile, too-- not quite as much as Dark Eldar, but close. It's difficult to win with Eldar if you don't know what you're doing. They're undeniably the best army for someone who loves to paint, though. The Eldar army's advantages are speed, close range firepower, and close combat ability. That comes at the price of a very fragile army and exceptionally high points values per model.

*Imperial Guard*-- The Imperial Guard can go a lot of different directions. With a new Codex, the Guard player is offered a wider array of options than they were before, even with the removal of the Doctrines rules from this edition. Heavy armour can be fielded in squadrons, and the Imperial Guard player has access to over 20 different kinds of tanks. If you're a treadhead, this may be the army for you. The Imperial Guard also is an incredible army as mass infantry, although a pure infantry Imperial Guard army is going to cost more than most pewter armies due to the volume of men you need. The Guard offer a lot to players who like historical armies-- it's not hard to model up an Imperial Guard army to look like a World War I or II army, by any means. The Imperial Guard's advantages are high model count and a huge volume of heavy weapons. It's possible for a Guard army to fire 300 lasgun shots alone in the shooting phase, plus dozens of heavy weapons on top of that! Their disadvantages are very strictly average (some would even say poor, but they're acceptable for their points) individual troopers and a relative lack of mobility.

*Necrons*-- Necrons are sort of the antithesis of Eldar. They're outrageously simple to build and paint, have very little variety, and have a tremendous amount of staying power. They're extremely forgiving on the tabletop, and extremely inexpensive to build financially. If you don't mind the slightly dry nature of the army, they're probably the best starting point in the game these days. The main advantage of the Necron army is its durability, offset by low model count.

*Orks*-- Orks are pricey to build, just because you need so many Boyz, but the army itself is rather forgiving tactically. In the end, an Ork is an Ork, and all that matters is that he gets himself stuck into close combat, which is simple enough. Painting can get a little monotonous with Orks, though-- green isn't difficult, but there are a hell of a lot of them to do. Orks excel in close combat, and have high numbers in their armies, although they're poor shots and are very vulnerable to being shot with some of the worst armor saves in the game. In 5th Edition, Orks both dish out and take it in equal measure. Large mobs are extremely destructive, but an individual Ork isn't that hard to kill in the grand scheme of things, so losing combat with fearless mobs becomes a very costly endeavor. 

*Space Marines*-- Generally speaking, most people point new players towards the Emperor's Astartes. They're a solid army, and are the poster-boys of Games Workshop. They're easy to learn, but it takes years to truly master playing with them. They occasionally seem a bit dry, and other Space Marine armies are a dime a dozen, but you'll never have to worry about having an inferior or out of date army. You've also got the most options rules-wise with Space Marines-- there are five different Codecies available for them. Space Marines are almost entirely plastic, which makes learning to model pretty simple. Marines are relatively inexpensive financially, as well-- not so much as Necrons, but about on par with Chaos Space Marines. The advantages of a Space Marine army are excellent basic troops coupled with good shooting and close combat ability across the board, as well as being impossible to rout. They suffer in protracted combats due to low model count, however. The new Codex: Space Marines eliminates Chapter Traits; but in exchange offers an unprecidented array of equipment for combating very specific threats at any range.

*Tau*-- If you're an anime addict, particularly of the mecha persuasion, then Tau are probably right up your alley. They're easy to paint, fairly forgiving, and carry a moderate price tag. They've got the most powerful ranged weapons in the game. Their only real weakness is in close combat, but they have measures which make it quite difficult to engage them. It's unclear these days whether Tau or Orks are the army to beat. Tau are probably third down on the list as far as good starter armies, behind Necrons and Space Marines/Chaos Space Marines. Tau armies are highly mobile and boast the strongest weapons on basic infantry in the game, but are generally extremely poor in close combat.

*Tyranids*-- Tyranids offer a lot of possibilities on the modelling front. They're rather difficult to paint well, however, and are among the most expensive armies to buy simply because of how Gaunts are packaged. They've got a moderate learning curve, and getting the right balance of critters in the army takes some time. Tyranids are, ultimately, a very powerful army, though, and rewarding if you take the time to model them and learn to play them well. A Tyranid army's advantages tend to be high model count, exceptional close combat ability, and complete fearlessness. Their disadvantages are vulnerability to shooting due to poor armor saves.

*Witch Hunters*-- Sisters of Battle are downright pricey, mostly because they're all pewter. The Adepta Sororitas are a close-range powerhouse, though, and are good if you want the 3+ armor save without being a Space Marine. Sisters have a steep learning curve, mostly because it takes some time to learn when to execute Acts of Faith. Sisters, like Eldar, seem to be a more veteran gamer's army. The Sisters of Battle army's advantages are Acts of Faith and powerful short-range shooting combined with excellent armor saves. They are disadvantaged by strictly average skills and very limited long range shooting ability.


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## cccp

also, if you are thinking of Imperial Guard, you really should check out this link.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2842


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## STATIC

Nice rundown of all the armies.
I wish this was around to read when i was starting out.


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## Green Knight

why dus noone collect dark eldar as i am thinking of collecting them.


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## Estragon

I went with chaos as I adore the fluff and it's easy to make a characterful army. Although it can be incredibly beardy-I don't think anyone whos suffered from the lash of submission x 2/obliterator combo would disagree, ESPECIALLY if the lash-wielding models are the only slaaneshi models in the army...grrrr-it's also easy to get 'right'. Also, we've got some of the coolest minis going and incredibly versatile troops choices.


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## Green Knight

were are the dark eldar players


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## Hespithe

I have played Dark Eldar, and can give a few ideas for them. But on the whole, I doubt you'll see many until later in the year when the newer models are being released. A new DE 'Dex is on the way!


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## SyNide

Well, A lot of people don't play DE for 2 reasons, One because it's very tough to play. You're essentially playing the glass cannon army. We hit very very hard and fast, but if they catch us then things die very quickly.

The 2nd reason is that quite frankly, alot of our models are ugly and disproportionate. So we rely quite abit on getting units from other ranges such as fantasy Witches for our Wyches.

But if you enjoy a very steep learning curve, then DE might be the army for you. Note however that we aren't an "army" per se, we're more of a Raiding Force, so we don't have things like super heavies.


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## Green Knight

The Dark eldar army looks so cool, and it would be a challenge, as well i think that is the point in warhammer. They are great in fast combat and have the bonus of good guns.


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## SyNide

Alright, prepare to lose your first 40 games. This is your boot camp period where you learn how to handle the army, and if you've got the perseverence to stick with them. If you do manage to get through your boot camp however, you'll be a better player than most with the same amount of time that you spend at the table.


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## Green Knight

I have won my first 3 games. The armys i was against was choas space marines, eldar ,and space marines.


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## thomas2

You won your first 3 games?!?:shok: With Dark Eldar? I saw them in a game against Space Marines and completely shocked how they die like guardsmen but cost more like Tau or even marines. I thought the Marine player was dead when a commander and Wyches got out a transport near them, but either they were out of range or the vehicle wasn't open-topped as they didn't assault and ALL died in a single turn of just ONE squad firing on them. I haven't even got 3 victories in about ten games with "beginner armies".


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## SyNide

Lol, nice one! Of course theres always an exception to every rule. Thomas, DE are very fragile(the most fragile army in the game), but they are very fast and very painful.


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## coldstuff64

i want to start an eldar army, but i only have $40. what is a good thing to get?


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## SyNide

Well, what is good to get? The codex. That will give you an idea of what the army is about fluff-wise, from there you can see what units you like.

Eldar are fast, have hell of a lot of shots, and its' specialized cc units are very good. And they're much more durable than Dark Eldar. note that if you join GTs, your sportsmanship scores would suffer because many people see the Eldar army as a "cheesy" army.


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## ThePelt

what is so "cheesy" about them?


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## coldstuff64

i think its because they are pretty much flashy, but in close combat, they aren't that good.


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## foulacy

Wow! 3 games on the trot with :O DARK ELDAR AND YOUR A BEGGINNER. Well done lol.

well to army starters how i broke mine down at first was, do i like xenos or imperium type armies including chaos.

then thought hmmm do i like to be the honourable defend your world at all costs good guy, or raghhhhh im gona kill you all for fun. 

so natually i choose chaos. then narrowed it down to death guard nurgle once more by reading on the fluff and looking at what models i liked the look of.


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## SyNide

Whats so cheesy about Eldar? Nothing really, as cheesiness is subjective. Some would say they are cheesy because of the unkillable falcon loading with Harlequins or firedragons. Others might say the Fire prisms. Personally, i'm fine with eldar.


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## Pickle

Maybe we could bulk out each army, like a basic army to buy to get started like:

*Necrons*

*Battleforce*

Put in simple words, buy this and you will on your way to making a Necron army. It contains twenty Warriors, three Destroyers and five Scarab Swarms. So essentially by buying this Battleforce, you have your two complusory troop choices of Warriors (ten in each unit). The three Destroyers, a great unit for long range support for a beginning Necron army. The five 
Scarab Swarms provide the speed and assault bite, you need. Overall the Battleforce is a great deal considering, it would cost you: $35 USD per Necron Warrior box and $20 USD per Destroyer. Just buying this separately would cost you $95 USA, which is more than the Battleforce, and you’re getting eight less Necron arriors and two Less Scarab Swarms.

Three Battleforces will provide you with sixty Warriors, nine Destroyers and
fifteen Scarab Swarms for $240 USD from GW, but if you go online, stores like Wargaming World can provide a 20-30% discount. This may seem like a lot to start with but it provides you with the basis of a full 1500 point army. You probably wont use all this stuff so here's some tips to save more money by converting. You've just save around $75 USD.
*
Conversion Tips*

Heavy Destroyers = Destroyers with bigger guns, Yes? Well, get using your imagination and convert three Destroyers into Heavy Destroyers. Extend the guns, bulk them out.

Do you really need sixty Warriors? I think not. Convert 8 or so into Flayed Ones, by reposing them and making some claws, sculpt some flesh onto there backs. Convert another 8 or so into Immortals, modify the gun, bulk their shoulders out and you've just saved over $150 USD by creating your own Flayed Ones and Immortals.

You could buy a Lord or convert one. Depends if you want to, as those models are really nice and its only one model.

Models generated from the three Battleforces.

1 Necron Lord (Modified from a Necron Warrior)
8 Immortals (Modified from Necron Warriors)
8 Flayed Ones (Modified from Necron Warriors)
43 Warriors
15 Scarab Swarms
6 Destroyers
3 Heavy Destroyers (Modified from Destroyers)

Reasonable force isn't it. By buying more stuff like Wraiths, Destroyer Lord and a Monolith, you could end up with something similar to this list.

Necron Lord Points: 
Destroyer Body, Resurrection Orb, Warscythe

Immortals Points: 
6 Immortals with Gauss Blasters

Flayed Ones Points: 
8 Flayed Ones with Claws

Warriors Points: 
12 Warriors with Gauss Flayers

Warriors Points: 
12 Warriors with Gauss Flayers

Warriors Points: 
12 Warriors with Gauss Flayers

Wraiths Points: 
3 Wraiths with Barbed Tail, Claws

Monolith Points: 

1500pt

And still have models left over, to mix in and run in a 2000pt list. Overall the first purchase of three Battleforces may seem a lot but it isn't really.

Hope this helps for an example and other people looking into Necrons, I might be able to do this for most armies if you want.


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## foulacy

Its all about opinions and preferences, to me there are no cheesy armies, every army is unique in its own nature which is why every collects different armys.


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## Zeldrin

Pickles, that post of yours seem like a really good idea. Anything that saves people money is always good. Pointing out conversions and models that fit in any army may be really useful for a new player or an old veteran venturing into new territory. Not sure how other people feel about it, but I think a series of this style of article/post could be extremely useful. Personally, I would love to hear a little more about the dark eldar. In all my years of playing I have never seen a dark eldar force fielded. Only the manager of my local GW had one and he never broke it out because it was too powerful.

All the best,

Zeldrin


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## Pickle

Thanks, Zeldrin. I may be able to do one on each army if its wanted by everyone?


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## SyNide

Sure pickle


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## LandRaiderLove

this threads' very useful!!! even though its made me want marines more (still dont know who yet!! lol) i never thought id end up thinking about a dark eldar army!! i think they look alright to be honest!! not ugly at all, actually the weird dog things look dodgy haha!!


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## angels of fire

Yeah pickle that would be a good idea. Or you could start a new thread...*the cost effeictive way to start the GW hobby*


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## Green Knight

I put the army list on, have look at it see what you think


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## powerful92

are dark eldar coming out with a new codex or new models soon because i am thinking of making my second army.


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## Pickle

New Codex and models sometime next year eg 09 So you can wait or buy now


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## Green Knight

use ebay it is so cheap!!


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## Apoctis

I would say choose one you want to build and what models you like


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## Silb

Price shouldn't be a problem if you're willing to use ebay. You can find nearly everything at a reduced price and some things are ridiculously cheap (like 2 US dollars for 32 dark eldar warriors). You should pick an army based on its fluff, effectiveness in combat, and models; although some armies are hard to use if you're a beginner and aren't recommended. Also, if you have a spacemarines army, you shouldn't get a chaos marine, necron, blood angel, daemonhunter, witchhunter, dark angel, space wolf, or black templar army unless you want to be bored out of your skull.


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## Carna

Buy the Battleforce and Codex for each race in WH40k and pick the one you like the best to build a gaming army. That's what I plan to do :good:


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## Silb

Carna said:


> Buy the Battleforce and Codex for each race in WH40k and pick the one you like the best to build a gaming army. That's what I plan to do :good:


I have to disagree with buying the battleforce. I mean, if you buy the eldar battleforce but then end up realizing that you hate war walkers, guardians, and wave serpents, then you've just bought 5 dire avengers for 90 bucks (even if you sell the rest on ebay you'll probably end up with a lot less money than you started out with). It would be much easier and cost effective to buy 2 boxes of dire avengers and a couple other units that you like. On the other hand, if nearly all of the units in the battleforce are ones that you like, I would definitely recommend using it to start your army.


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## Carna

More like $150  Damn Games Workshop and their unfair prices to Australians compared to US/UK/CA. I intend to buy online from gamingfigures.com or a website like that for 40k/LotR things, $150AU from GW or $90 from GF, I know which I'd choose.


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## delta13

*pick what suites you*

i would recomend reading both the fluff and the codex's first before you start buying models...A. if you actually buy the codex's or other fluff books it is not a waste becauwse if noting else you know your enemy...B. it helps you to really decide what army you want to play. because you are going to find tons of interesting facts and facets of all the different armies that will suite your desires as both agamer and a painter/modeler... the only issue i ever found was narrowing it down to a specific group (i.e what chpater or what regimnt or what craftworld) but never fear the fluff always helps...lol i would also agree wirth something that "son of Horus" said you also have to decide do you want to be a gaming god or jsut have some fun and taylor your army to look good and have a great background and not worry so much about winning but playing a great armyk:


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## Elemental_elf

delta13 said:


> i would recomend reading both the fluff and the codex's first before you start buying models...A. if you actually buy the codex's or other fluff books it is not a waste becauwse if noting else you know your enemy...B. it helps you to really decide what army you want to play. because you are going to find tons of interesting facts and facets of all the different armies that will suite your desires as both agamer and a painter/modeler... the only issue i ever found was narrowing it down to a specific group (i.e what chpater or what regimnt or what craftworld) but never fear the fluff always helps...lol i would also agree wirth something that "son of Horus" said you also have to decide do you want to be a gaming god or jsut have some fun and taylor your army to look good and have a great background and not worry so much about winning but playing a great armyk:


That is some sound advice! :good:

I wish I had done this before buying all my models. $22 is a small price to pay to have sound of mind and a plan.


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## silvarius

Green Knight said:


> why dus noone collect dark eldar as i am thinking of collecting them.


most people don't like the models because most of them are metal and in blisters making them quite exspensive and the fact that there rules are quite old doesn't really help, but i know one or two people who play Dark Elves and there armies are ok


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## Otep

if only i saw this before i started getting SOB... i do love them though  so willing (and at times eager) to die for the God Emperor

Acts of Faith are quite nifty too


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## delta13

well i will say that in the end it all comes down to YOU no matter what people say on here (no offense or disrespect intended)or who ever you play with. you will her all kinds of nifty things about all kinds of units and armies but ultimatly it is up to you and your own personal preferences...


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## Wonsz

Hi, i got an easy question
-which army is the least popular :Chaos, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templars or Space Wolves ? I decided to play Chaos or SM but i would like to know which one of those is the least popular (then i can take it and be happy for eternity)


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## The Son of Horus

They're all equally popular, really-- For some reason, Space Wolves strike me as the least popular at the moment, purely because they haven't had an update but the other four loyalist codecies have had one recently. Chaos' popularity depends on the Legion you choose-- Night Lords armies, for example, are relatively rare in my experience, but Iron Warriors, Emperor's Children, and Death Guard seem to pop up quite frequently. Not that the rules differentiate between them anymore... *sigh*


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## Wonsz

Hmm and now i can't decide between Black Templars and Blood Angels, can I get small comparison, as far as i know they both close combat specialists, what is difference between them ? thanks a lot for a quick reply btw ^^


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## Hespithe

Angels... Faster to some extent, hit a little harder, and get nifty units like Death Company, Furioso Dreadnought, and the Baal Predator configuration.

Templars... Unique unit structure, more bodies in a unit for fewer points, some rules tweaks in their favor.

Really, for a hitty MEq list, it will all depend upon how you want to paint your army and which vehicles you prefer. If Crusaders are your 'thing' them Templars (or a successor if you like) are probably a safe bet. If you want masses of Jump Marines with Predator backup, then the Angels will do well for you.


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## jman

for someone whos played fanasty but new to 40k which is better space marines or eldar


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## Vaz

Space Marines definately. You bugger up somewhere with Eldar, you're going need some good contingency plan, or be good at damage limitation, because their points cost means you cant just plug an important gap, especially as Eldar aren't really effective plugs.


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## SyNide

Better? No army is "better"

Both take skill to play(believe it or not marines are a hard army to master, what with every other army's special rules that make them faster, hit hard, more durable, etc...We're the middle ground, hence if you can master your marine army, you'll be pretty damn good.

Eldar are a very finesse based army, harder to pick up than marines, but once you get the hang of it, you can be nigh unstoppable.


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## striking scorpion

Eldar They Give You A Wide Rande To Do


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## vo2

*vo2*

i love all the armys of 40k but i choose the orks can you tell me how i can make a ork army with lots of dakka (shooting stuff) but still can do melee because i love dakka but orks awlways prefer close combat help me please.


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## SyNide

Actually, thats quite easy to do...Orks have lots of dakka and all their guns are assault weapons 

Just get loads of boyz, load them on trukks, get some bikes and i think you're set. But don't take my word for it.


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## vo2

Orks Are Awesome Dakka Dakka Dakka Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh thanks synide


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## Mag1c_tr3v

i've only got around 1500 pts of space marines, but am planning to get around 3,000 in total, since this is quite large for normal 40k matches iwth mates, i think i may get some stuff that allows me to play in apocalypse matches, but is also flexible for a standard 40k match


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## delta13

well i would agree with Silvarius, the models are mostly metal and rules are fairly out dated and to be honest they are the kind of army who must be played a very specific way in order to really be affective, not like marines or CSM who can play just about any style or orks who have multiple ways to battle, they are also fairly limited in the types of enemy they can take on with out getting utterly slaughtered....


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## delta13

sorry , my last post was in reference to the dark eldar issue on the first page of this thread...sorry missed an entire page....lol


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## Apoctis

This si great and the dark eldar players are dying because of horrible models and outdated rules that are no good. But do not lose hope.


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## Zondarian

i want to have a thousand sons army and want to know wot people think of them


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## Mag1c_tr3v

i dislike theway DE models look in general, and they need to update the general army stats and troops. yes, the dark eldar are for raiding, i know but it wouldn't kill the GW guys to at least add a few, say defaced fire prisms or something.


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## Fivetide

because I'm not good at painting I shouldnt have gone for the 1k Sons but i have stuck with it and as my first army I hope to have 500 points in the next few weeks ready for my first battle against my m8 Kato's Blood Angles..


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## jakkie

i prefer armies that aren't so monotonous(spelling?) to paint. DE would be a perfect example of this if their modle wernt so bad. crons and SMs are not very good for this as most of their units are the same/have a large area of the same surfce.
if i could gat another 40k army, i would get Nids. apart from the synapse problem, they are great to play and paint as they are diverse, and can be converted almost any way you like.


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## Kato

Imperial Guard strike me as a fun army to go with if you like tanks  However I think that Orks are a nice fun army, you don't need to have a uniform paint scheme and they IMHO look best with a varied hodgepodge style.  That and conversions for ork vehicles are fun.


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## Blood God

Very nice list of all of the forces on the 40k world. 
Go chaos woot


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## bobss

i agree when picking an army certain things are important like do you like the fluff and how much are you willing to spend?


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## shas'o7

Pick an Army that's fun to play, has nice fluff, and you will enjoy painting.


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## The Son of Horus

-Edit- Added Daemons of Chaos to the army listing.


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## chaos vince

dark eldar are one of the meanest armies if they're played well, but it takes a long time to learn them and they do not tolerate mistakes. mess up a little and its over


----------



## Brother Constantine

I am thinking about starting up a new SM force. I have narrowed it down to two chapter choices; The Blood Ravens and Crimson Fists.
I like the backgrounds for both but have reached a stalemate as to making a desicion.
Does anyone have a preference between these two chapters?
Which do you prefer?


----------



## DarKKKKK

I would go with Crimson Fists b/c of the new stuff they are coming out with for them in the 5th


----------



## Bungholio

I was *so* tempted to go with the Space Wolves...ultimately what is there to *not* love about a bunch of rampaging, pissed-up Vikings? What convinced me to go with Tau instead, strange as it might sound, was the fact that they're so fragile in melee - it requires a bit of thought and a good strategic battle plan to ensure that you don't get sucked in, chewed up and spat out again. Your fire lines have to be mobile whilst avoiding getting penned into a corner and obliterated - as a beginner, you can't simply blunder around the table bellowing like a moose and relying on a 3+ armour save and close combat power weapons to get you out of trouble...you have to use a little finesse. Perhaps, in the next incarnation of the Tau 'Dex they'll split off the Farsight Enclaves, give them their own 'Dex and things will be even more interesting...I'll be retiring my Kroot at that point.

Personally, I would disagree with reading the 'dex and then deciding - a Codex is designed to make the army contained therein sound like the dog's bollocks even if it isn't. The best way to decide is to go to your local club or shop and see the guys who have played the game for some time. Talk to them, drag as much knowledge out of them as you can, watch them play, ask them why they chose their own army and which army they least like to face. The guys here are a goldmine of information but you can't watch them play and, for me, that's always been an important factor - getting an up close an personal feel for the game before I jump in. 

Money shouldn't be an issue with the amount of models available on ebay at almost sensible prices - just don't tell the guy behind the counter at your local independent retailer that and, above all, remember that it IS just a game, just a bunch of over-priced plastic or pewter soldiers being moved around a piece of MDF (it's come a long way since the days when I played D&D) by a load of guys who are out to enjoy themselves. The aim of it all should be to have a lot of fun and to make a few new friends - if you're going to throw your toys out of your pram because somebody just handed your army their arses on a plate then this isn't for you.

Just my $0.02 worth.


----------



## caljrow

i agree i thinck the space wolves are better but if u want one of them i think the crimson fists because of what of what DarKKKKKK said about the new stuff


----------



## Inquisitor Varrius

I personall prefer BA over Space Wolves. All Jump-pack armies are so much fun, it's hard not to take them.


----------



## cypherthefallenangel

i went chaos cause i like the fluff and i formelly played fantasy chaos so :grin:


----------



## cypherthefallenangel

chaos all the way BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD:angry:


----------



## blackmane264

dont do dark eldar yet they are redoing the codex early next year


----------



## Wilder

Thanks for the insight.


----------



## Concrete Hero

I'm glad Necrons were my starting army. Painting them is really rewarding to. Just having trouble painting up my 'Nids now though...


----------



## XV8crisis

Green Knight said:


> why dus noone collect dark eldar as i am thinking of collecting them.


cos they suck. You may as well do eldar. The fluff about them is nice but they're just not popular. Everyone is doing marines now anyway, cos theres so much stuff for them.

Another thing about the DE is that they don't give you very many options for colour schemes unless you invent your own. With eldar theres at least 10 set schemes.

______________________________________________________
Heresy grows from idleness. Chickens grow from feathers.


----------



## Concrete Hero

**In a Rage**



XV8crisis said:


> *cos they suck*. You may as well do eldar. The fluff about them is nice but they're just not popular. Everyone is doing marines now anyway, cos theres so much stuff for them.
> 
> Another thing about the DE is that they don't give you very many options for colour schemes unless you invent your own. With eldar theres at least 10 set schemes.


Whao whao whao.

Now You're just being Intolerant!
The DE do not suck at all! You just have to be beyond the oh-so-difficult 'Stand and Shoot' or 'Charge and Assault' stratagems!

And inventing your own schemes is what its all about!
(Unless you play Imperial Fist... mmmm...)
*cough* The DE are the spikey-spandex Bomb!
If you want to put a bit more thought into how you play. Go DE


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## CGall10

i play space marines and am about to take place in a tale of four gamers thing and was wondering what army i should start i would not play eldar or necrons or tau scince thats what my friends are doing i like the idea of tanks that do all the covering and ling range shoting while the troops move closer to kill (be it shooting of assult) i have no idea what to play (dark eldar are not my cup of tea eather)


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## BlackApostleVilhelm

Dark Eldar do not suck at all, they are just extremely hard to play. these guys are not for the newb to the game at all. my uncle, who is a navy seal so that might have something to do with it, believe it or not plays a Dark Eldar army and is godly with it. every time i have played him he has royally kicked my ass and ground my face into the dirt, and im no push over mind you. 

if you are starting an army for the first time go with Space Marines. id say Chaos Marines but they are a step up in tactics from GW's posterboys.


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## XV8crisis

Green Knight said:


> why dus noone collect dark eldar as i am thinking of collecting them.


yeah, i was thinking of getting them or chaos as my next army.

______________________________________
the dreadnought is not a wardrobe, nor is the meltagun a microwave of the flamer a toaster. However, in desperate situations these are acceptable uses for these tools, as are lightining claws effective as nail clippers and lascannons useful as cigarette lighters


----------



## XV8crisis

Concrete Hero said:


> Whao whao whao.
> 
> Now You're just being Intolerant!
> The DE do not suck at all! You just have to be beyond the oh-so-difficult 'Stand and Shoot' or 'Charge and Assault' stratagems!
> 
> And inventing your own schemes is what its all about!
> (Unless you play Imperial Fist... mmmm...)
> *cough* The DE are the spikey-spandex Bomb!
> If you want to put a bit more thought into how you play. Go DE


well yeah but they're not that popular. im not saying dont lay them - theyre kinda cool actually. but really, i am torn between them and chaos.


might do DE though. i mean, come on they get kinky daemonettes! imagine that - charging into battle and being met by a gaggle of purple concubines. what a way to die.

________________________________________________________________
the first company are NOT 'gun fodder'


----------



## bravo_michel

in 40k 5th ed i cannot find the running rules in the movement


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## Stoney_fish

SyNide said:


> Whats so cheesy about Eldar? Nothing really, as cheesiness is subjective. Some would say they are cheesy because of the unkillable falcon loading with Harlequins or firedragons. Others might say the Fire prisms. Personally, i'm fine with eldar.


nothing is unkillable. hell i saw table top match where an eldar players farseer got sniped. keep in mind i know nothing of the rules


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

bravo_michel said:


> in 40k 5th ed i cannot find the running rules in the movement


Running is in the Shooting rules, not the movement rules. Page 16 of the Big Rulebook.


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## Stoney_fish

im considering space marines.
what i want is endurance and adaptability


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## titan65

i wish i was around to read that when i started that is a great sum up it is going to help lots of new players


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## CSD42

I'm thinking of starting up a DE army once the new codex/models come out, which is supposedly soon. They are by far my favorite "evil" race, somewhat in fluff and especially aesthetically. Chaos is mostly just altered SMs, Necrons are boring to paint without really going out there (ivory necrons with bronze finish are cool and semi-popular, but Necrons are a race where detracting that far from the canon color scheme doesn't really make sense like with SMs), and Tyranids just seem too cc-oriented to fit my play style. 

Here's hoping that GW doesn't go the same route as DH/SoB and make all new DE pewter. Ugh.


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## Kenny3760

From some of the rumours I've heard about possible changes to DE, they could be the army to beat when they finally get redone.
They will be even faster, and more difficult to defend against, monsters in combat. It'll all be good.


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## spike12225

faster dark elder there fast enough hopefully faster means fleet but thats ok combat tactics is my best friend against dark elder most the time leaves them in the open for str4 ap5 then a counter charge lol stupid elves


----------



## imperialjoseph

if you want world war 2/modern army imperial guard is the selection with a wide range of heavy and tanks its good if you like a lot of fire power


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## wombat_tree

AAAAAAAGHHHGHGHHGHG shut up everyone every race is special and awsome in their own special way whether or not you like them is based on your tastes. No army sucks no army looks stupid they are all awsome.


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## Concrete Hero

That 'Sucks' comment has got to be at least a month old now... Did you read the posts after that?

Did you really need to make that comment? Really?


----------



## Steve the mediocer

personally i started collecting bfore i knew even what warhammer even was, my first pucchase were genestealers, i had no idea what they were, i thought they had plasma pistols... but seriously, nids arent even that good in combat, a tau fire warrior is is basically even with a hormagaunt in combat because hormagunts are only strength 3 and tau have a 4 up save, the thing that makes nids a great cc army is that they have abundant non charactar power house monsters, very elite combat choices like lictors and raveners and ultimatly nids have more combat troops on the field compared to shooting troops, 4 out of the 3 troop choices dont have guns and even gaunts over all objective is usually to get stuck in or to just make meat sheilds out of themsleves


----------



## yergerjo

This thread is hilarious. I started in 40k back in May/June with Space Marines; I've gotten about 3000+ points done up and now am starting my 2nd army, Dark Eldar. A new Codex will come someday, but no time soon. It will be a challenging army to paint and play, I look forward to it in fact; it will be very different from my "stand and shoot gunline anti-armor" Space Marine army.

But whats funniest is that Dark Eldar are the most mentioned army in this list, whereas under normal circumstances you never hear about them, ever!


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## Jackinator

Hi, I do Space Marines at the minute and I want a change. I want something thats relatively easy to collect but I'm not really sure yet, however I don't want it to be Orks.


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## cypherthefallenangel

*simple is the key*

i sugest something simple and easy to paint you dont want to wast to much time so go with something like eldar or imperial guard:good:


----------



## kiret

Pickle said:


> I might be able to do this for most armies if you want.


Did Pickle ever do this? And if not and you read this, Pickle, could you do one for Imp Guard or Nids?


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## Chocobuncle

Im new but ive watched my friends play a couple games and read the rule book and some codexs but i still dont know which army i want, i know i want a CC army but which one is the best


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## Evil beaver2

for a close combat army, i would say eldar are best because they have some specialized cc units (scorpions hace tons of attacks and banchees ignore armor) and they havve fast transports to get cc units to cc.


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## pupecki

Green Knight said:


> why dus noone collect dark eldar as i am thinking of collecting them.


like the first post said, you can only buy them from the online store, they are pretty weak (in my opinion) and they field rather small numbers


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## pupecki

Wonsz said:


> Hi, i got an easy question
> -which army is the least popular :Chaos, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templars or Space Wolves ? I decided to play Chaos or SM but i would like to know which one of those is the least popular (then i can take it and be happy for eternity)


space wolves haha


----------



## MyI)arkness

I noticed another thing - special characters. Im huge hater of , space marines, for example, but ultramarine hero Sicarius is just awesome to me and because of him im thinking to get some ultras later :victory:


----------



## Stuntiesrule

I am not a big fan of the Ultramarines get 30 special characters everyone else gets one philosophy but yay for them being the poster boys. I wish they would bring back some more IG regiments I like my IG a lot but other then loads of the new cadians and the option to buy Jungle Fighters there has not been much offered other then the ridiculously over priced vostroyans.


----------



## captain cortez

i think most special characters are too god-like.


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## zas240

captain cortez said:


> i think most special characters are too god-like.


Whoa boy, according to the fluff marnus calgar held a gate alone for a day and a night against orks. i playtested this and he got killed _ before_ he got to attack even. Stupid heavy close combat weapons.


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## bon_jovi

zas240 said:


> Whoa boy, according to the fluff marnus calgar held a gate alone for a day and a night against orks. i playtested this and he got killed _ before_ he got to attack even. Stupid heavy close combat weapons.


PMSL You should try Azrael of the Dark Angels. It may just be mine but the guy doesn't die! I have seen him see off 30 guardsmen in cc before and stand on a hill all on his own (well with his midget helmet bearer) and just soak up rapid fire bolter shots. I swear that is the only model i have any kind of luck with rolling dice.


On the collecting armies front though, Assault on Black Reach is a great start, shitload of models and rules ect to boot. If you end up not liking either army, sell them on and use the money on one you do like. £40 from gw or £27 from any indi for that ammount of models is bloody brilliant in my opinion.


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## khuffster

Eldar are cool but are "glass dolls"


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## inquisitoryorei

Hespithe said:


> I have played Dark Eldar, and can give a few ideas for them. But on the whole, I doubt you'll see many until later in the year when the newer models are being released. A new DE 'Dex is on the way!


this has not been confirmed. release of new dark eldar actually may not happen this year.


----------



## Troajn

OK, complete newbie question about to be asked.

My son and I have only recently got into this, we have just been messing around with the painting side and apart from a game in the shop, we have never played. He has chosen Tyranids and I have just decided on DA.

So now for the question, I have just got hold of the DA codex and had a quick flick through, now would I be right in thinking that Terminators should all be painted in bone and only normal marines and veterans painted in green. In other words are all DA terminators counted as Deathwing and should be painted as such?

It's not such a bad thing as at least it makes an army more interesting to paint as the various squads seem to have a range of colours, but I didn't know if a terminator in the DA would be green.

Sorry for the daft question


----------



## The Son of Horus

Troajn said:


> OK, complete newbie question about to be asked.
> 
> My son and I have only recently got into this, we have just been messing around with the painting side and apart from a game in the shop, we have never played. He has chosen Tyranids and I have just decided on DA.
> 
> So now for the question, I have just got hold of the DA codex and had a quick flick through, now would I be right in thinking that Terminators should all be painted in bone and only normal marines and veterans painted in green. In other words are all DA terminators counted as Deathwing and should be painted as such?
> 
> It's not such a bad thing as at least it makes an army more interesting to paint as the various squads seem to have a range of colours, but I didn't know if a terminator in the DA would be green.
> 
> Sorry for the daft question


No worries, it's what we're here for. A "by the Codex" color scheme for Dark Angels would have all the Terminators in bone, rather than in green. If you wanted to do a Dark Angels successor Chapter, though, you could paint them however you liked, and you could still use the Dark Angels Codex. They just wouldn't be Dark Angels by name-- they could be Disciples of Caliban, or Angels of Absolution, or a Chapter you make up. Sky's really the limit with Space Marines, and the choice of Codex these days is mostly a choice of which rules you want to use with the Space Marines you've got, more than anything else.


----------



## Troajn

Thanks for the reply, I will probably stick with the DA colours as I like the variety between the different squads. But at least I know now.

Cheers


----------



## Calamari

*A guide to choosing your 40k army*

Ok this is supposed to be a guide for anyone looking to start a new 40k army (duh). I got the idea from Squeek's guide in the Fantasy section but this part is kinda lacking one. This is a bit of WIP so any C&C is welcome. Ok here goes:

To be able to choose what army you would like there are a few things that you need to decide that you like in your army, fluff, strong in a certain phase ect. Bearing in mind that almost all armies can be tooled up to play anyway you like I'm writing this guide based off of the general flavour of said army otherwise you won't narrow down your choice at all 

Firstly consider the looks of an army, it is pretty much an accepted fact that if you don't like the models in a particular army then you won't be interested in it and get bored very quickly. Now, this is completley personal taste here so I can't help you at all 

So what is most important to you?
Gameplay: go to question 1
Cost (financial): question 2
Fluff: question 3
Ease of play: question 4

Gameplay

1) In a game what is most important to you?

A) Winning at all costs (ie most competative Tourney army): Imperial Guard, Tau, Orks, Space Marines

B) Super, elite units: Chaos Space Marines, Space Marines, Deamonhunters

C) Hordes: Orks, Imperial Guard

D) Strong movement: Eldar, Tau, Dark Eldar

E) Strong shooting: Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Tau, Necrons

F) Strong assault: Chaos Space Marines, Deamons of Chaos, Orks


Cost

2) How much money are you willing to spend?

A) Cheap: Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Necrons

B) Middle Ground: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, Deamons of Chaos

C) Epensive: Deamonhunters, Witchhunters, Imperial Guard, Orks, Tyranids


Fluff

3) What kind of background fluff do you like? (Bear in mind that this is a gross generalisation because all the armies are different)

A) Good, ish: Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Deamonhunters, Witchhunters, Tau, Eldar

B) Evil, or just nasty: Chaos Space Marines, Deamons of Chaos, Orks, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Necrons


Ease of play

4) What is your general skill level?

A) Begginer (forgiving armies): Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Necrons

B) Intermediate (require some skill): Tau, Imperial Guard, Tyranids, Deamons of Chaos, Witchhunters, Deamonhunters, Orks

C) Expert: (need a lot of skill to use well): Eldar, Dark Eldar


Obviously any army can be played to any skill level but this is a general guide to help make an appropriate choice, for example, I'm not a brilliant player, I would struggle to use Eldar well.

Please let me know if I missed anything or you think I have mistake somewhere.

Enjoy


----------



## TheKingElessar

I think the 'competitive army' bit is a bit off...IMO the ranking of armies by competitiveness is thus : SM>Imperial Guard>Black Templars>Chaos=Eldar=Orks=Tau=Witchhunters>Dark Eldar=Tyranids>Necrons=Daemonhunters=Space Wolves=Daemons=Blood Angels>>>>> Dark Angels

Though, I think I left someone out...and obviously this varies depending on list, and when Codexes are replaced it will fluctuate. At the minute though, I believe it's accurate.


----------



## Culler

I'd say that Orks, SM, Chaos, IG, Tau, and Eldar are all most capable of fielding competitive armies right now. It's Dark Eldar, Witch Hunters/Grey Knights, and Necrons that probably have the most difficulty playing at a competitive level.


----------



## Calamari

Hmmm ok I'll change that then, I was going by the general feeling on Heresy that SM are easy to play but in most GTs they do realy bad.

No worries I'll update.


----------



## The Son of Horus

This section actually has a long-standing thread about army selection, which has been stickied. I'll merge your posts with the original thread.


----------



## Rayza

i wish i would have read this before i started on my eldar amy because now i wanna change becuase just to fragile for my playing style so now im going onto ork an i jus wasted time an money becuase of a bad descion


----------



## Inquisitor Varrius

My sympathies. I dropped out of 'Nids and yeah, it stinks to ditch an army. On the other hand... orks are _the_ coolest Xenos army out there!


----------



## Heavy Sniper

This actually made me think about a Dark Eldar Army, but I have a question.
Did the new codex come out yet? Because I haven't really looked at them in awhile.


----------



## TheKingElessar

No, no new Codex yet, and it's rumoured to have been postponed to late next year.


----------



## Marcus Vine

Well, after four years of wondering, what if, now but how? I finally found something that helps. Thank you very much


----------



## Grand Master Z

hehe...I spawned a talos...hehe


----------



## Iron Angel

It is true that Necrons can be simply primed black and drybrushed metallic, and you're done, but its also very, very possible to make an outstanding looking Necron army. Especially with the application of a little GS if you have the patience for it, you can create a completely unique looking army. True, its the simplest to paint, but if you really put time and effort into it, it can come out looking as vivid and as impressive as any Eldar army.


----------



## Virus49

Sorry if its a bad idea to ask here. But here goes anyways...

I'm having a lot of trouble picking an army for wh40k. Ive got some space marines which I have used to practice painting and get a feel for the game. Didnt like the play style though of marines. So naturally I decided to go for a new army.

As of today ive narrowed my choices down to three possible armies. The orks, the imperial guard or the tau empire. All of these races are very different which is making my decision incredibly hard.

The pros for the races are..

Orks:
-I like the look of them in general. I believe they are the only army to truly suit the fleshy stlyle. 
-The WAGHHHH. The orkish fighting style and kultur in general I have read so much about is interesting to read and enjoyable. 
- Background stories like the wars for armageddon make me interested in the orks
-Simply the way everything works. Its crazy! I read that some ork tech is powered by orks simply believing it works! This amazes me.
Imperial Guard
-Kasrkin squad, ready for war! The kasrkin squad seems to embody everything I love about futuristic warfare. They look advanced, powerful and will defend cadia until the last man. Infallible
-Boomguns. Basalisks, leman russ tanks. The imperial guard armor is definately a pull factor. As the mammoth tank says in C&C3 (unrelated I know, but still awesome) "Unrivaled"
-Lasers... does this need explaning, guns that shoot lasers are always epic.
- Again, amazing background stories surrounding the imperial guard and the general idea of being the emperors hammer. Im not a fan of the emperor in general. But the guard seem pretty good.

The Tau Empire
-Futuristic. Although not as great as kasrkins, I find battlesuits and.. every tau unit that isnt kroot or vespid great to look at.
-The weapons, similarly to the guard. A good weapon is always nice. Maybe not in terms of power for the guard but the idea. A lasgun is cool. So is a pulse rifle! Railguns!
-The hammerhead, one of my favourite tanks. Only guard tanks come close to matching it in my favouritism and only the baneblade seems to look better to me. With the basalisk close behind.

Finally the negatives...

Orks
- Im not too sure how id find painting so much flesh on all the ork models. With some races its fairly minimal but with the orks its EVERYWHERE
- Ork vehicles are not very impressive. Things like the deff dread I like, but others like the wartrukk just dont seem to have any "oomph" about them in my opinion.

Imperial Guard
-All the "for the emperor" stuff. Its blastphemous I know! But id expect "heresy" online to understand :grin:This emperor is not a great character. He can die for all I care, if I were to have a guard army, they would fight for the good of the human race. Not for the emperor...
-Weakness compared to other troops. I have heard a single space marine can kill 10 imperial guardsmen on his own. I know guardsmen are surposed to horde but thats insanity. Id like my army to pack at least some infantry punch. I just hope hot shot lasguns are good...
Tau
-Kroot and vespid. The fact the tau suck in close combat is fair enough. Allies were required. But the allied races take away from the futuristic nature I love about the tau themselves.
-The greater good and ethereals. I just plain and simple dont like it. I understand it after reading about it a lot. The farsight enclaves seems to look great to me though. But there are limitations in place there...
-The lack of a tau story. The expansions do not cover much. And the tau havent really been part of a major event in the 40k universe.


I can't remember much else for the pros and cons of each race in my opinion. Hopefully I got them all!

Any advice is apreciated and any insight from players of the three armys is also welcomed.

Thank you in advance for any help I might recieve.


----------



## MetalHandkerchief

Dude, seriously, great work on this but



The Son of Horus said:


> *Tau*-- If you're an anime addict


I already feel like hitting you. I LOVE Tau, but I absolutely DESPISE most animes and especially the mecha crap, and I hate to be boothed in with the little snot-runts that gobble up that dribble.

It doesn't handle like that, Games Workshop puts their own unique touch on everything, and if they didn't, I'd hate Tau.

Please edit out that line, because if I even THOUGHT of a connection between anime and Tau before I got into it, I know I would hate Tau out of spite! Imagine all the potential players like me you're turning away from them now!


----------



## *Chaos_Ate_My_Fingers*

You really got this thread right, GW should have this up in thier window or in the WH rulebook. Wish I read this before I picked an army, if I did I'd most likly be a Tau player.

But my CSM have grown on me, great post ... have some rep


----------



## maawindstrike

are you going to add something for the new wolves?


----------



## Xtr4M1nty

maawindstrike said:


> are you going to add something for the new wolves?


Here:

Reasons for choosing the Space Wolves:

The pure amount of customization and individuality in Space Wolf armies are a one-of.

The sheer power of squads with WG Terminators in them is immense.

Bloodclaws are one of the best melee SM squads there is, because of the amount of chainswords and the Hedstrong special rule.

More for your money compared to other SM chapters. The 19.95£ Space Wolves Pack has 202 parts in it and a lot of CQC ability.

Only negative for the Headstrong Bloodclaws is if they see something tats a bit too powerful for them, its kind of like Russian Roulette :russianroulette:, most of the time its suicidal.:suicide:

But when a few measly Gaunts are in assault range the Bloodclaws are more than welcome to run in swords blazing.

The HQ choices of the SWs is kind of like a "kick-ass heroes section". Njal is phenomenally good if you are blessed with good luck.

The painting skill and modelling skill in general needed to make the SWs good-looking is a thing that comes with practice but is tricky for newbs.
Hope this helps.


----------



## darkslayr

I just started collecting chaos marines. i have 2 models at the moment, a termie lord with combi bolter and 1 lightning claw, which im wondering if i should switch back 2 the axe powr weapon in the box instead. and an out of the box lucius the eternal(already mad at him, metal peices are a b to glue) so its still early to look into a different army, leaning toward tyranids, but want 2 stay csm. kinda wondering what models to start with both armies, need troops obviously. and the first tyri peice i want has to be the hive tyrant of awesomness lol


----------



## Varakir

At present i am quite happily painting and modelling my salamanders, virtually never playing any games with them. If i do play, it's against close mates and just for a laugh, so i'm free to paint up whatever i like the look of.

Looking forward though, if i did start to play properly again, i think i'd like to try another army. I've played SM a long time ago, and i'd like to give another force a shot - this time around i'd be painting up units with a pre-planned army list, proper wargear, actually buying the codex and all that jazz.

So, which army do i pick?

Here's the deciding factors:

Painting: Main focus of the hobby, i like to spend a fair while painting each model.

Conversion: I want an army that i can convert heavily, preferably with a good selection of plastic units.

Fluff: I'm all about the fluff, so the more story the better.

Gameplay: Not overly concerned on playstyle. However, the last time i played properly was just after 2nd edition came out, so nothing too taxing! k:

Cost: Not really an issue.

answers on a postcard please!


----------



## Bmwrocks2

If you like painting then maybe Eldar? They have a good range of models (though alot of them are metal) and there is alot of fluff about them.


----------



## Varakir

I think i'd have great fun painting some eldar up, they look like a good challenge.

My main worries about eldar though is there doesn't seem to be much conversion potential, and the consensus seems to be that they are one of the tougher armies to play.


----------



## Wolf Guard

where are space wolves, even though they're a sm chapter, they are now officially independant, well that what some fat bloke sitting at a desk in gw hq says.


----------



## Bane_of_Kings

I've studied the rundown and narrowed it down to a few choices on which army I want to pick, can anybody help me out?

As of now I'm stuck between:

-Tau
-Imperial Guard
-Daemonhunters


----------



## MetalHandkerchief

Bane_of_Kings said:


> I've studied the rundown and narrowed it down to a few choices on which army I want to pick, can anybody help me out?
> 
> As of now I'm stuck between:
> 
> -Tau
> -Imperial Guard
> -Daemonhunters


Tau will be the cheapest. Imperial Guard will take the most time to paint up. Daemonhunters will kill your back carrying all those metal minis 

Just make a list of pro's and cons to each and let numbers light your way k:


----------



## Ryzearn

Im a nid player and it does take some learning to be good with them i havent won a game yet but i like the painting part more than playin i think the reason i chose them was background and the models look sweet


----------



## Bane_of_Kings

Any other thoughts? I might do Necrons, but I am leaning more towards Tau.


----------



## Nipolian

Im thinking about ether the 
Demonhunters
Tau
Chaos SM

Dont know wich like a hard hitting army


----------



## bakoren

Ryzearn said:


> Im a nid player and it does take some learning to be good with them i havent won a game yet but i like the painting part more than playin i think the reason i chose them was background and the models look sweet


AGREED!!!!!!


I was a real threat when me and my friends started because no one went after my GS and Blord Squad. But after about the third game where they ate all of the MAHREENS, they all got the newest biomorph.


The Agro Hat.

So Now then I had to learn how to actually play. Getting certain advantages (Barbed Strangler, Dakka Tyrant) so Now I'm usually the main threat.


----------



## SMman3211

so whats the news on that new DE codex


----------



## pariha

i have like 2 armies but i think thats a good way to lern , by picking up a BF and painting / playing with it you lern about its good /bad points


----------



## MidnightSun

I'm spoilt for choice too, Necron or 'Nids.

Necron Pros:
Short range firepower
Good anti-tank
WBB
Cheap ($)
Easy to paint.

'Nid Pros:
Close Combat
Good modelling oppurtunities.
Cheap (pts)

Necron Cons:
Slow
Phase out
Expensive (pts)

'Nid Cons:
Weak individuals
Expensive ($)
Hard to paint _well_.

Looks like 'Crons then!


----------



## Chaosrider

hey soz bout the revival, but im going chaos, thinking of daemons or csm, maybe even combining, was just looking for good and bad points on playing combined and seperate.


----------



## TheSpore

i personally always liked the DE but never built an army since they have been revised in quite some time and honestly i cant stand having to order every thing online. I have played severaldiffrent armies and my advice to those picking a new army i say this.
If your a beginner and its your first army standard space marines its a great well balanced army which can be manipulated and cheesed out if need be and it will definately teach you the ins and outs of 40k but then again everyone and there mother has a flipin marine army hell ive gone through 2 of (blood angels was my first armay and now i have salamanders) i play daemons nowand love that army its just so much fun to play it keeps you and your opponent on your toes


----------



## Dawnstar

Chaosrider said:


> hey soz bout the revival, but im going chaos, thinking of daemons or csm, maybe even combining, was just looking for good and bad points on playing combined and seperate.


You cant really play a "combined" army, but can use some of the units in either army

You can use one of the Daemon HQ's as either a Daemon Prince or Greater Daemon for chaos, and the Daemon troop choices as Summond lesser Daemons for chaos. Same thing works the other way around too k:

Chaos (my army) are mainly plastic, so the range for conversion is extensive. You can also use some of the SM vehicles/units if a cheap option appears on trade-me/an online store/your LFGS (predator, dreadnought, rhino's, vindicators, devastators/havocs, normal troops, terminators and maybe more)
They also have more tactical flexibility than daemons

Chaos Daemons are all metal (if I remember rightly) so they are probably one of the more expensive armies to play, and while they also have room for conversion, they don't have as much as CSM's do (my opinion)


----------



## Chaosrider

thanks for the advice dawn, a bit late but at least you gave it... daemons are plastic and metal from what i can tell... the gay thing is all the units i now need to buy are metal... like an HQ costs $50-60... ($NZ) and i can't find one online!!!


----------



## Dawnstar

Ah a fellow kiwi :biggrin:

Nice to know I'm not alone on this site :grin:

Hmm.. have you tried looking in a GW store? In Auckland there's another store that sells 40k stuff, Vagabond. Might be worth giving it a look :good:


----------



## Chaosrider

Theres no gw store in christchurch 

anyway, toyworld is cheaper!!! WIN!

but i buy from wayland games. took like 3-4 weeks for a box of bloodletters to get to me but at least it only cost me say... $25 at the most. with postage of only 2 pounds 50!!!


----------



## Dawnstar

No GW store... :cray: I feel for you man...

Wow! That's a pretty decent price for bloodletters!


----------



## Ravingbantha

Something that I have wondered about those who don't play De just because the models suck: Why not just convert them all from Elder and Dark Elves. It's not much of a stretch to convert the Majority of your troops from Guardians, and some of the other stuff from some Dark Elf min's.

I've got an entire line up of what I would use to convert a DE army using almost no DE mini's


----------



## vista101

Pre-Heresy marines would be a good idea for an army theme... just a thought.


----------



## The Iron Savior

Well, I've already chosen an army (Necrons) and I know almost everything about what I'm doing. I just need to know, what's the most cost-effective way to start off on the right foot with 'em. Cuz last time I started my army, I bought a Lord, then a Wraith, then 2 Immortals, then the codex... it was a mess. So, how should I start out?


----------



## The Psyker

I had the same problem you did with picking a chapter. I know its like comparing apples and oranges buuuttttt...

First thing I did is a little research online to find the most suitable chapters style for myself and then went and bought the codex along with a few units to start out with.

I'd look in the project logs or the plethora of other helpful boards around here.

I am thinking about starting an Eldar Army. I went to go pick up a book at Barnes and Noble and I grabbed "Path of the Warrior" By Gav Thorpe. After reading up and finding out just how bad ass the Eldar really are both on and off the tabletop I've decided to create my own eldar faction.


----------



## Orochi

After you've chosen an army, find out what other people think of the battleforce avaliable for that race.

Thats always a good place to start. If the battleforce is good and recommended, buy it.


----------



## TheKingElessar

I think that research online is the best thing to do first. There is no benefit to wasting money on crap units.

After that, have a quick look through online stores for sales and bundle deals - because Battleforces, while cheap, rarely are anything like competitive.


----------



## Yochanan

I always weigh several factors when thinking of a new army. Perhaps some of you could ask yourself these questions before deciding (if you see their relevance). 

What is the meta? Is the book up to date? do I like the look of the models? how many pewter models will I need? is the style of play going to be fun for me? how versatile is the army with competent lists? in my playgroup is there already an overwhleming amount of said army? how many models will the army require and how many can/do I want to paint? is my interest merely ephemeral? does the army have a potentially competitive list, or lists? do they have a new book on the rise? and how much will the army cost? does GW neglect said army? 

I usually give more weight to the ones which I feel are more siginificant and compare several armies of interest. It helps come out with something usually


----------



## turel2

I can't decide which army to collect.

I want an army that is fun to paint(little or no clones), but is fairly cheap to collect.
Tactically I want a slight challenge (i'm not a beginner, but no pro either.)

Any advice?


----------



## Shaun

Another Kiwi here,

My son runs Chaos based around Tzeech, I run Dark Angels. We have project Nid running between us. I really enjoy the contrast of running a power armour army and a non armour army. I love my DA and will never leave them out for a game they are the best fluff army in the marine lists and can ally with Grey Knights easily. There is a heap of combinations. My point is dont overlook the fluff as a high value feature of any army, DA grabbed me, I don't care if I win or lose I like the unforgiven robed guys still fighting for redemption.
The tyranids rock its great watching doubt spread on an opponents face when all those models turn up on the board and the new codex gives great flexibility. Spore mines have to be the most fun random event bombs in the game.


----------



## jfrith

i went with nids because there close combat mainly and they look awsome


----------



## imperium or turtle

Seems like Necrons are up my ally.


----------



## Karnax

I say if you want to do marines, go for a non codex chapter. Less variety than codex chapters generally, as I would say they are slightly more specialised, but they would be much nore fun to play with.


----------



## shas'o Thraka

Very useful, even though it is beginning to show its age. Maybe we could update it?


----------



## Karak The Unfaithful

I'm going to recomend Chaos space marines.
I dunno what it is about them, they can look really cool even with a simple paint job, not to mention conversions I have three mutant chaos space marines in my army and some fairly awsome units. Really you can do whatever you corrupt, evil heart desires. Out of the 4 chaos gods to choose I have always liked khorne (Followed by nurgle) because the whole pointless slaughter is just really nice.


----------



## Boc

Aye, this thread is definitely in need of updating.

I'm thinking about starting up a third army, as I (as of now) have CSM and BA. I tried getting Eldar about 2 years back, but wasn't a huge fan and they were quite pricey since pretty much everything but DA were metal models...

I DO want to make a shooty army, since both of mine are incredibly (surprise, I know...) assault-oriented. Like... entirely. Which means I've narrowed it to three options:

Imperial Guard: Pros: Strong medium and long ranged weapon systems. Lots of options for customize-ability of pretty much any vehicle/infantry unit through FW and a million other bits sites. Cons: I hate painting tanks...

Tau: Strongest long ranged weapons in the game, ability to shoot and jump out of LOS. Lots of options on the battlesuits and a few different builds to look at. Cons: If I accidentally fall into my CC habits... epic fail.

Dark Eldar: Not a clue as to the pros and cons, but they look badass and *allegedly* are pretty wicked at range.

Tyranids: Pros: Have some pretty strong shooting builds, fun looking models, and they aren't my normal Space Marine paintjobs. Cons: I'll have far too much temptation to build a CC build with the 'nids, sinking entirely too much money into them.

I think as of now I'm leaning more towards Tau or IG, for the reasons stated. I think Tau would be a fun non-competitive army for me to run, since I tend to be more on the competitive side with my other two, as well as a real strain and to get me used to really the far end of the spectrum of playstyles.

Thoughts, anyone?


----------



## piotrasdabadman91

From my point of view I would go for Tau simply because the Fire warriors are one of the coolest looking troop choice in the game. Im not too fond of the anime-mech look of the other troops though but the gunships are cool as well.
Also Dark Eldar with their refreshed plastic kits look much better then the old models. 
Gameplay wise I dont know since im more of a painter/collector than a gamer and like you I ve got CSM and Ultramarines.


----------



## Geist

Imperial Guard, definitely. They have so many possibilities, both with units and conversions, and if money is no object, the best looking troops if you buy from forgeworld. And, you don't really need tanks, as an all-infantry force is fully viable, considering we can but up to 2k points into one troop choice. And if you do in fact want tanks, I read so many tutorials saying that airbrush makes everything easier, and look better.

Besides, Tau are evil.... :wink:

Edit: Of course, you could do both if you wanted. If it's not competitive, take Imperial Guard, add Tau bits(such as pulse rifles and carbines), put IG bits on the Tau Vehicles, and viola, Tau-Equivalent Humans. I personally am considering making just such an army, since I hate the Tau, but love the shootiness of their weapons, the fluff being that they are a powerful IG regiment that has recently been given the rights of settlement, resent the Imperium's bureaucracy after a bit, and declare independence. In an effort to put a worthwhile defense, they raid the Tau for weapons and reverse-engineer them(since they are breaking all the rules, might as well go all the way. ). Of course, not for a while. I have to finish my Elysian Army first.


----------



## Daemon Prince Paintbox

I chose Daemons based on being bored of painting high elves and wanted a change. So I bought the CSM Daemon Prince as I liked the model. A little while later a mate bought me a few daemons and my army was born. I have since swapped the Daemon Prince for the Forgeworld Daemon Prince as he looks so awesome in my humble opinion. But I would probably recommend people do a little research before getting an army. I was lucky as I've not fallen out of love with my army.

All the best people.


----------



## Dagonet

This is really useful for me, little out of date but still foundation is useful. So I need to pick an army again, good few years ago I played Blood Angels and the experience wasn't rewarding and then I played Tau but got hammered because Broadside's can't hit anything!

I am leaning towards Dark Eldar; I love the fluff, the models look awesome and in the past I have had BA which were sort of your all rounders (assault and shooting) and then Tau which were all shooting and no fun when in close quarters. Dark Eldar have cool special rules and I especially love the awesome rule Lelith has. 

Here is the question though, Dark Eldar are more a close quarters orientated army which is fine but I haven't played 40K in a while, should I take a shot? (model prices) isn't the problem and I don't mind losing a lot until I find the ins and outs of a DE army. Are DE still the hardest army to play?


----------



## elmir

I'd say they still rank up there when it comes to being a hard army to play right. If the strenght of the army is it's speed, it's definatly more difficult to cash in on that advantage rather then say, high model count or sheer toughness. 

I wouldn't describe DE as being full throttle assault though. Rather more balanced, because this army can unleash some potentially devastating firepower...

It's a solid codex it seems. Good looking models, with a second wave of releases coming soon. You might not get a codex upgrade for quite a while, such is the price for playing xenos most of the time. But that doesn't have to be a big deal, since this army seems to be in a pretty healthy state atm.


----------



## Dagonet

Hmm, you make a good point actually. I will need to think about it but this thread definitely helps give a brief overview of the aspects each army offers.


----------



## maomolin

Dark Eldar lost much of their ranged anti-tank. As such their speed is meant to get them in range, which happens to be assault range. They've lost a bit of combat umph in all reality but this is due to 2+/3++ and/or t5+ and/or FNP crap running about moreso than the codex change.

When mech dies off, Dark Eldar takes the lead. Moreso than nids. Dark eldar can (and does) win, but its yet to show consistency to rate it a high end codex. I think its lost some of its 'surgical knife' appeal and have shelved mine.


----------



## XYBAheart

right now, necrons are a fantstic army to start with, once you learn their simple, powerful special rules and pick out the lords wargear, because there are only three fast attack and three heavy support units, all you have to decide between unit wise is wether or not to drop the lord to use both c'tan, otherwise their lethal firepower makes them useful for things like that grey knight mission where they surround you, they also work well to annoy other players using their ridiculus survival power, but the new codex means that this could all change.


----------



## laviathan13089

XYBAheart said:


> right now, necrons are a fantstic army to start with, once you learn their simple, powerful special rules and pick out the lords wargear, because there are only three fast attack and three heavy support units, all you have to decide between unit wise is wether or not to drop the lord to use both c'tan, otherwise their lethal firepower makes them useful for things like that grey knight mission where they surround you, they also work well to annoy other players using their ridiculus survival power, but the new codex means that this could all change.


lol, power weapon armed death company squads lead by chaplains assaulting out of stormravens with death company dreadnought support will destroy all your warriors and cause phase out, you lose. but if they ever changed that rule with the new codex... :russianroulette:


----------



## XYBAheart

laviathan13089 said:


> lol, power weapon armed death company squads lead by chaplains assaulting out of stormravens with death company dreadnought support will destroy all your warriors and cause phase out, you lose. but if they ever changed that rule with the new codex... :russianroulette:


charming... can I just point out that our current codex is so old that it still uses the stupid writing on the cover, older codexes have higher values, so we don't get much on the feild... plus we have one troop chice, the most exotic troop design we can have is filling it with warriors... that is fun though.

not to deviate, necrons are also very easy to paint, but do take attention to assemble if you want them to look good.

and relating to a previous point, if you choose a new race or a recently updated one, the points aren't as high, and it helps pull respect from other players, make ya seem oh so>:smoke:<

but then again, I am a bit thick...


----------



## Serpion5

XYBAheart said:


> right now, necrons are a fantstic army to start with, once you learn their simple, powerful special rules and pick out the lords wargear, because there are only three fast attack and three heavy support units, all you have to decide between unit wise is wether or not to drop the lord to use both c'tan, otherwise their lethal firepower makes them useful for things like that grey knight mission where they surround you, they also work well to annoy other players using their ridiculus survival power, but the new codex means that this could all change.


You can`t field both c`tan. 

C`tan have a 0-1 limit in any army list.


----------



## XYBAheart

Serpion5 said:


> You can`t field both c`tan.
> 
> C`tan have a 0-1 limit in any army list.


 (WHY!!!!!! DEAR GOD WHY!!!!!!!)


----------



## yshabash

XYBAheart said:


> (WHY!!!!!! DEAR GOD WHY!!!!!!!)


Cause they would try to rip each other to pieces while your army gets destroyed and is desperately asking for help from them :laugh:


----------



## XYBAheart

yshabash said:


> Cause they would try to rip each other to pieces while your army gets destroyed and is desperately asking for help from them :laugh:


no-one destroy's necrons, we just get up again. keeping on subject, its that ridiculous survivability that makes them a good army, my freinds terminator librarian used that power with the portal to the warp (bloody psykers) on a tomb spyder, completely unscathed!:biggrin:in fact that librarians done nothing but suck. if you cannot be bothered with psykers, black templars, necrons, and tau (i think) are all psi inert, just have fun with the other stuff, thats my style. if you dont like something about 40k, pick an army that ignores it, tau for assault, templars for psykers, 'nids for vehicles, but always do your research first, borrow a codex or something.:music:


----------



## XYBAheart

laviathan13089 said:


> lol, power weapon armed death company squads lead by chaplains assaulting out of stormravens with death company dreadnought support will destroy all your warriors and cause phase out, you lose. but if they ever changed that rule with the new codex... :russianroulette:


heavy destroyers destroy the stormraven. the dreadnought doesn't stand a chance, my freind plays blood angels, destroyers are quite good for them, and their cheap, so I can have a massive amount of thess lethal and mobile death machines (up to 15 normal destroyers and nine heavy destroyers! meanwhile my warriors sip lemonade as the big boys work away.

EAT IT!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## JelloSea

Help me out guys I'm wavering. I should have a full army of what ever I want by the end of the summer but I'm not sure what to get. I have a pretty good knowledge of the rule book and have read through codex, Imperial guard, Space marines, Necrons, Grey knights, Tyranids and Chaos Marines at least 10 times each. I'm pretty sure I have looked at every other codex at least once. (aside from BT)

The army's I'm looking at are Grey Knights, Imperial guard and (new)Necrons. 

With the new Necrons, I'll have to wait to get them, which is really no problem as I'm short on currency lol. Though I love painting and the army seems like it may be.... too simple? Either way, with the codex as it is now, I feel the army has almost no flavor as most army's look very alike. ( not much to say as the new dex is not out.)

Grey Knights... Ah the power house. I feel like I could play this army very well with lists that are not common around the internet. That, I would find very fun as I'm the type that likes to do well but do it in a uncommon way. My main problem with the Knights is they are expected to be painted in a certain way, though I feel like I could paint the models very well, it doesn't really have a "my own" feel to it. ( not much to say as there is not much flexibility in the codex.) I think this army will be the strongest vs everything besides gunlines.

Finally, the Imperial Guard. I feel this army has the most "taste" involved in it, the ways to paint them and model them are limitless. My main problem with this army is that I love infantry, yet it seems like to be competitive you need Mech. I don't have a problem with taking tanks but If you take tanks you seem to need a lot or you lose, If you take infantry you seem to need a lot or you lose. If you split your forces half and half you give your enemy exactly what they want, a target for each of their guns. If i went pure infantry (I'm pretty dead set on using Infantry platoons) The moving would take forever to get anywhere, forcing the need for transports, with just a few transports your going to get destroyed first turn. Everything pretty much slams into your face that you need Mech.  This army makes me sad because If you want to gunline up you lack mobility, and usually only get to shoot once or twice before your line gets slammed. If your mobile you get hit faster and will usually be unsupported by the rest of your army.

My girlfriend thinks that IG is stupid saying "if your going to play a game that is set in the future with all those cool things, why would you pick your stupid pink squishy human." She like Tyranids but the problem with that is the person I would play most is Tyranids. I cant make myself take a army as popular as space marines and I'm too emperor loyal to play chaos. I don't want to play pure Mech because I feel it makes the game stale.


----------



## acheron187

When looking for an army pick what you think looks the coolest. I picked spacewolves entirely because I loved there lore, and I just loved the look of them.


----------



## Doomspire

I would go for Chaos. You can make an army dedicated to any of the 4 gods: Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeenetch & Nurgle. Khorne Berserkers, Noise Marines, Thousand Sons & Plague Marines


----------



## wingazzwarlord

iv only been back in the hobby about a year and half. When i first bought fifth edition i instantly found orks appealing, i thought the fluff was amazing and loved the tongue in cheek haphazard humour that the army brings to the table top. As you said it is a labour of love getting a full army painted and i was nearly there. However as i got better at painting my army started to look mismatched which i didnt like so decided to strip the whole lot in dettol and now have about 1000 points left to paint all over again.

Curses!


----------



## Nottz

I just decided to start playing again after TWELVE years. Even though I don't have my old army I'm still going to be playing CSM. They still look the best to me and I always liked being anti-SM since they're always played in abundance!


----------



## XYBAheart

what about 'nids? what are they like?


----------



## JelloSea

Fun if you play against a lot of infantry, but suicide if you play against Mech lists which I gather are all the rage at tournaments.


----------



## Azkaellon

XYBAheart said:


> what about 'nids? what are they like?


Few big creatures you need to protect till there in CC.......Mixed with a horde of pissed off little bugs with no armor but are dirt cheap. IF you want to power game at all currently i would not suggest tyranids even know they do look really cool on the table. (Also if you do pick them anyhow get the forgeworld hive tyrant over the normal in store one...it looks much cooler):victory:


----------



## 777swappamag777

all armies depend on your play style and use your first army to find it i started with space marines and branched from there i found i am a verry aggresive player and im currently on a 2 year win streak


----------



## Geofrost

Chaos space marines always semmed a more appealing army plus i think its nice to be the villain sometimes


----------



## TheSpore

Geofrost said:


> Chaos space marines always semmed a more appealing army plus i think its nice to be the villain sometimes


As I said in the past I love the villians simply because you never know much about them and well the good and happy side is always pretty boring.


----------



## xxedge72x

I wonder if you guys can help me out.

When I first got into 40k, I learned about it through a friend of mine and his cousins who have been playing it for years. They had some Codex Marines which I used to start an army, and using those models I've since proxied and experienced Codex Marines, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights.

In my earlier playing days before I became really knowledge of the game, my goal was to wait for the Grey Knights codex to come out because I was really into the idea of a small elite close combat army. As it turns out though, as awesome as the Grey Knights are, they a short range shooty army who can pack some punch in close combat. Paladins fit the description of what I liked about the idea but they're so monotone to play I can't see it being entertaining for any long duration of time. Ultimately, when it comes to the Marines the Boltgun is king... short range shooty is the name of the game.

What I really want out of 40k is to do a lot of close combat. Marines don't fit the bill of the playstyle I like, and from having done as much research on the forums as I have, I've somewhat fallen into the trap of wanting to go with the "power builds" that people are always suggesting, and that are always long range shooty.

I want to get away from Marines entirely because I know them so well that its ruining the fun for me. I know that Blood Angels have better CC than the typical Marine but from a fluff perspective I'm not interested in playing them. I know this cuts me off a bit but I also have no interest in the Tyranids. I was never a hive type.

So that leaves... Orks... and Chaos I'm assuming? I've never tried Chaos Marines so I guess I could be open to trying them out, though if they're so similar to normal Marines in that the Boltgun comes first then chances are I won't enjoy that either. What are my options? More importantly, what is the experience of playing the various armies like?

I want to have fun with the army I play so Orks are probably the primary target at the moment, but what else could I do?


----------



## xxedge72x

Thanks everyone!


----------



## Eldar Wraithlord

*Awesome.*



The Son of Horus said:


> I've seen a lot of threads popping up lately about picking a new army, so I thought I'd make a sticky topic with some general guidelines for deciding where to throw your lot in the 41st Millenium.
> 
> There are a few questions you need to ask yourself before you get started.
> 
> -How much am I willing to spend?
> 
> -How big an army do I want / how big an army do I need to play at the size my group plays at?
> 
> -Which models do I like?
> 
> -Am I more concerned about winning the game at all costs, or am I out for a good time?
> 
> -Am I a painter/modeller before a gamer, or a gamer before a painter/modeller?
> 
> -How long have I been involved in the GW hobby?
> 
> 
> Financially, any army CAN be easy on your wallet, as these things go. Necrons are by far the most inexpensive army to build financially, as the Battle Force boxes contain pretty much everything you'll need. It's just a question of how many Battle Forces you'll need to build your army to the appropriate size, and then getting a couple Necron Lords. Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines of all flavors are probably the next in line on the financial ladder, followed then by pretty much everyone else.
> 
> I've found that in short order, you'll lose interest in an army if you think their models are lame, even if they play really well. There are no bad armies in the game in a gaming sense, so you might as well pick something you'll like modelling, painting, and having to look at.
> 
> Your choice of models, when you've selected your army, is really a question of whether you're building an army list specifically to win, or if you'd just as soon build some units to a vague points cost, figure out the concrete details later, and have fun with it. If your approach is a more competitive one, then you'll probably be happier building the army to a pre-set army list that's been designed to take on all comers equally well, using the trump cards that the given army has to offer. A more casual approach often leaves you with more models that you won't use every game, but also tends to make a more fluffy army in the end.
> 
> Some models are simply harder to paint than others. If you fancy a challenge painting, Eldar might be up your alley. If you're not much for modelling and painting, then Necrons might be for you. Some people are bothered by not having painted armies, some aren't. It's a question of how much work you want to put into the army, and whether or not you consider it a chore. Armies that are painted because you like to paint come out looking far sharper on average, but you can still make a very good looking Space Marine, Tau, or Necron army without putting a whole lot of effort into the models if you aren't too big on the hobby side of the hobby.
> 
> Picking the right army for your experience helps out a fair bit as well. Here's a rough breakdown of how I look at armies overall, in terms of learning curve, ease of modelling, and whatnot.
> 
> *Chaos Space Marines*-- Very easy to learn, though difficult to master. A great starting point in the hobby, as you're free to paint them and model them however you like-- wacky things don't look too out of place most of the time, so if you screw up on a model, no one is likely to notice. Financially, Chaos is on the cheaper end of things as well. On the table, a Chaos army's advantages are good armor saves, exceptional close combat ability, and excellent basic troops; while their disadvantages tend to be a low model count. Chaos Space Marines are individually extremely tactically flexible, as they're armed with a boltgun, bolt pistol, and close combat weapon. In 5th Edition, this lets them easily adapt to either a more ranged firefight or fight in close combat as needed-- the range that 5th Edition takes place at makes Chaos Space Marines quite possibly the most flexible individual models in the game at the moment.
> 
> *Daemonhunters*-- On the more difficult end of things to play with, as the model count is phenominally low. They're a tad bit pricey as most of the models are metal, as well. Daemonhunters offer a huge array of modelling options, though, as no two Inquisitors and their retinues are alike. On the table, a Daemonhunter army's advantages are a wide array of specialized abilities, high ability values, and impressive anti-infantry firepower, while disadvantages lie in overspecialization and low model count. In the new edition of 40k, Grey Knights come into a new element, as they're optimized for the intense, close-range pace that the game has taken on. Powerful template weapons, such as the incinerator, are also at the daemonhunter's disposal, which makes them a potent choice for 5th Edition games.
> 
> *Daemons of Chaos*-- A few things stand out-- Daemons can be played with an identical army list in both 40k and Fantasy, as far as model selection goes, so you can get a two for one deal with them, in essence, as long as you mount them on square bases. Barring it being an official Games Workshop event, nobody will say anything if you have daemons on square bases in the 41st Millenium. In 40k, Daemons are a highly specialized army, and take a bit of finesse. There's not a whole lot of shooting, and you have to rely a little bit on luck to determine which half of your army decides to show up first. Based on what I've seen so far, I'd reccomend them to someone who's been in the hobby a while. Perhaps not as long as someone who should be playing Eldar or Sisters of Battle well, but still not a new gamer. The Daemons of Chaos army's advantages on the table are exceptional close combat ability with the ability to quickly engage before the opponent can really react; with disadvantages primarily being low shooting and only a 5+ invulnerable save to protect most models.
> 
> *Dark Eldar*-- The general consensus is that Dark Eldar are the hardest army to play with, and have an extremely steep learning curve. They're Direct-Only for the moment, so getting your hands on them requires a little extra effort. The models are old, and show their age-- they weren't great, even for their time. If that doesn't bother you, though, the army is possibly the most devastating in the game in the hands of a skilled player. The Dark Eldar army's advantages are speed and short-range firepower, disadvantaged by fragility and low model count.
> 
> *Eldar*-- Eldar are a painter's army. Each squad type has its own distinctive costume, and you can really go to town on Harlequins and some of the grav vehicles. A lot of the range is metal, so they're kind of expensive. The army is pretty fragile, too-- not quite as much as Dark Eldar, but close. It's difficult to win with Eldar if you don't know what you're doing. They're undeniably the best army for someone who loves to paint, though. The Eldar army's advantages are speed, close range firepower, and close combat ability. That comes at the price of a very fragile army and exceptionally high points values per model.
> 
> *Imperial Guard*-- The Imperial Guard can go a lot of different directions. With a new Codex, the Guard player is offered a wider array of options than they were before, even with the removal of the Doctrines rules from this edition. Heavy armour can be fielded in squadrons, and the Imperial Guard player has access to over 20 different kinds of tanks. If you're a treadhead, this may be the army for you. The Imperial Guard also is an incredible army as mass infantry, although a pure infantry Imperial Guard army is going to cost more than most pewter armies due to the volume of men you need. The Guard offer a lot to players who like historical armies-- it's not hard to model up an Imperial Guard army to look like a World War I or II army, by any means. The Imperial Guard's advantages are high model count and a huge volume of heavy weapons. It's possible for a Guard army to fire 300 lasgun shots alone in the shooting phase, plus dozens of heavy weapons on top of that! Their disadvantages are very strictly average (some would even say poor, but they're acceptable for their points) individual troopers and a relative lack of mobility.
> 
> *Necrons*-- Necrons are sort of the antithesis of Eldar. They're outrageously simple to build and paint, have very little variety, and have a tremendous amount of staying power. They're extremely forgiving on the tabletop, and extremely inexpensive to build financially. If you don't mind the slightly dry nature of the army, they're probably the best starting point in the game these days. The main advantage of the Necron army is its durability, offset by low model count.
> 
> *Orks*-- Orks are pricey to build, just because you need so many Boyz, but the army itself is rather forgiving tactically. In the end, an Ork is an Ork, and all that matters is that he gets himself stuck into close combat, which is simple enough. Painting can get a little monotonous with Orks, though-- green isn't difficult, but there are a hell of a lot of them to do. Orks excel in close combat, and have high numbers in their armies, although they're poor shots and are very vulnerable to being shot with some of the worst armor saves in the game. In 5th Edition, Orks both dish out and take it in equal measure. Large mobs are extremely destructive, but an individual Ork isn't that hard to kill in the grand scheme of things, so losing combat with fearless mobs becomes a very costly endeavor.
> 
> *Space Marines*-- Generally speaking, most people point new players towards the Emperor's Astartes. They're a solid army, and are the poster-boys of Games Workshop. They're easy to learn, but it takes years to truly master playing with them. They occasionally seem a bit dry, and other Space Marine armies are a dime a dozen, but you'll never have to worry about having an inferior or out of date army. You've also got the most options rules-wise with Space Marines-- there are five different Codecies available for them. Space Marines are almost entirely plastic, which makes learning to model pretty simple. Marines are relatively inexpensive financially, as well-- not so much as Necrons, but about on par with Chaos Space Marines. The advantages of a Space Marine army are excellent basic troops coupled with good shooting and close combat ability across the board, as well as being impossible to rout. They suffer in protracted combats due to low model count, however. The new Codex: Space Marines eliminates Chapter Traits; but in exchange offers an unprecidented array of equipment for combating very specific threats at any range.
> 
> *Tau*-- If you're an anime addict, particularly of the mecha persuasion, then Tau are probably right up your alley. They're easy to paint, fairly forgiving, and carry a moderate price tag. They've got the most powerful ranged weapons in the game. Their only real weakness is in close combat, but they have measures which make it quite difficult to engage them. It's unclear these days whether Tau or Orks are the army to beat. Tau are probably third down on the list as far as good starter armies, behind Necrons and Space Marines/Chaos Space Marines. Tau armies are highly mobile and boast the strongest weapons on basic infantry in the game, but are generally extremely poor in close combat.
> 
> *Tyranids*-- Tyranids offer a lot of possibilities on the modelling front. They're rather difficult to paint well, however, and are among the most expensive armies to buy simply because of how Gaunts are packaged. They've got a moderate learning curve, and getting the right balance of critters in the army takes some time. Tyranids are, ultimately, a very powerful army, though, and rewarding if you take the time to model them and learn to play them well. A Tyranid army's advantages tend to be high model count, exceptional close combat ability, and complete fearlessness. Their disadvantages are vulnerability to shooting due to poor armor saves.
> 
> *Witch Hunters*-- Sisters of Battle are downright pricey, mostly because they're all pewter. The Adepta Sororitas are a close-range powerhouse, though, and are good if you want the 3+ armor save without being a Space Marine. Sisters have a steep learning curve, mostly because it takes some time to learn when to execute Acts of Faith. Sisters, like Eldar, seem to be a more veteran gamer's army. The Sisters of Battle army's advantages are Acts of Faith and powerful short-range shooting combined with excellent armor saves. They are disadvantaged by strictly average skills and very limited long range shooting ability.


I wish this was around when I was starting up It would have been very helpful, but it's too late now. But ya this is an awesome post man! You really got into the details and took your time. Rep up +1


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## Kavv

My turn to pick a new army. I am very new to table games, and am loving 40k. I am not loving painting 40,000 orks. =) I need a break from the never ending pile of Boyz.

I had looked into GK, but I just moved to a VERY small town, and there is already a GK player, and everyone seems to hate seeing them unloaded from their boxes. I want a small model count army, and am targetting 1500pts. I have thought of going Tau, but I honestly just don't like looking at them. I love the look of DA and think the Black and white Tamplar look nice too. I am fine with heavy vehicle, or no vehicles. I have read the picking an army post (which was great), but really just wanted a similar paragraph for more of the MEQ armies. I have also been trying to get a feel for how the BT or DA can be played, but get lost with acronyms and troop names due to being so new to the game. Battle reports on youtube have been very little help, and I would LOVE to find something as foolproof as the "talking about orks" series. 

Any help is appreciated, and I hope my attempts at due diligence is taken into consideration. 

Thanks,
Kavv


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## skelley

*Necrons*-- Necrons are sort of the antithesis of Eldar. They're outrageously simple to build and paint, have very little variety, and have a tremendous amount of staying power. They're extremely forgiving on the tabletop, and extremely inexpensive to build financially. If you don't mind the slightly dry nature of the army, they're probably the best starting point in the game these days. The main advantage of the Necron army is its durability, offset by low model count.

I do agree with most of this but as a Necron player I have to say with a little work a necron army can become as complicated as anyone would like i tto be. As for painting I am in the prosses of creating a storm trooper army with them so paint can be as interesting as you let your mind make it it's all about the mood you come to the job with.


If i can give any advise on how to pic an army it is to read the fluf alot of people overlook the fluf and pic the army that fits best to your feeling dont power game just finde the one to fit your personality.


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## TheKingElessar

Wow, this article looks dated now. 

Necrons have little staying power, because they're on foot. Sure, they have a lot for a Foot army - but that doesn't say so much.

Also, Eldar are ALL about surviving - it's about all they do reasonably well.


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## shogunboy

I remember reading this months ago back before I got to sticking with blood angels. I think my only suggestion is that I wish that each space marine codex (i.e. space wolves, dark angels, and etc) got their own small summary of what they are.


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## Tabletoptauempire

wow, nice list, if youve got lots of time, get every army. also eldar arent that difficult to paint...


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## acheron187

pick the army you think is the coolest, I picked spacewolves because I loved their story and looks. I also like how they are more toward a beginner army.


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## Oakley

Wow, this thread helped alot. I needed some rundown on which army I should pick and when, but I'm thinking of going with Space Marines / Grey knights. Space Marines for the financial advance (And I've played them for 3 years now) and Grey Knights because really, when it comes down to it, they're Space Marines as well.
Thanks for the guide, you're a big help.


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## piousprophet

I'm looking to start a new army after having my highs and lows with daemons. I like them but they just never play reliably for me. I'm looking for something with more flexibility. I've tried nids and SoB but nids are not for me and SoB is too rich for my blood. So any suggestions would be grand.


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## MetalHandkerchief

piousprophet said:


> I'm looking to start a new army after having my highs and lows with daemons. I like them but they just never play reliably for me. I'm looking for something with more flexibility. I've tried nids and SoB but nids are not for me and SoB is too rich for my blood. So any suggestions would be grand.


You want flexibility, yet you went from Demons to Nids and SoB?? Dude, bar Necrons you've tried the three most rigid armies in all of 40K. I suggest trying Eldar, Dark Eldar or Tau if flexibility is your cup of tea. Though if Tau is your thing you should wait for the next codex which is early 2012.


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## kavyanshrike

The new dark eldar models are amazing although there are still a lot of finecast but they are amazing as a second army as if you are starting new with dark eldar your first few games will be very painful


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## TheKingElessar

MetalHandkerchief said:


> You want flexibility, yet you went from Demons to Nids and SoB?? Dude, bar Necrons you've tried the three most rigid armies in all of 40K. I suggest trying Eldar, Dark Eldar or Tau if flexibility is your cup of tea. Though if Tau is your thing you should wait for the next codex which is early 2012.


*Bear with me, while I pick my jaw up off the floor*

Tau and eldar are mono-build armies. You may as well have said CSM.

If you want flexibility, play a 5e Codex, barring Nids, whom you have already tried. Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Grey Knights. - That's where you find options and build variety in 40k.


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## MidnightKid333

I think the key to a great army is one that has lots of other things to do with it, like the tyranids for example. They are great fun to use on the table and have tons and tons of modelling options, so they look awesome, are relatively easy to paint (but can be difficult if you want them to be). Building an army is not that cheap, but the amount of time you spend reading the fluff, making tyranid terrain, modelling your tyranids and simply staring at their coolness is totally worth the extra money. There's also alot of models, so that means lots of painting time. Tyranids can be tactically forgiving at times, but can still be a very difficult army to use correctly, so there is alot of improvement time for a tyranid player (in other words, it takes a long time to "master" them).

In my humble (kinda biased) opinion, Tyranids are the best army you can get.


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## jaysen

You are all wrong. All new players should play either Ultramarines or Orks, so sayeth GW, and so be it.


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## MetalHandkerchief

TheKingElessar said:


> *Bear with me, while I pick my jaw up off the floor*
> 
> Tau and eldar are mono-build armies. You may as well have said CSM.
> 
> If you want flexibility, play a 5e Codex, barring Nids, whom you have already tried. Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Grey Knights. - That's where you find options and build variety in 40k.


Moronic comment. Tau and Eldar are not far from getting new codices, you can't EVER judge an army from it's outdated codex, but from their intended range of options.

As in, when Tau and Eldar are new and shiny, they will along with DE be the most versatile armies around.

Hell, if this guy starts painting now, he'll be done by the time Tau gets a new codex, maybe if he's a slow painter, Eldar. And if he picks up one of the newer codices NOW, he'll have an outdated codex when he's done!

Oh, the laughs. The many, many laughs.


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## elmir

So your none-moronic, brilliant advice here, is to pick one of the armies in need of an update... so you'll be finished painting by the time the book is updated?

I'm really not getting what you are trying to say with that last comment? What the hell is the "intended range of options" of an army anyway? I think the latest necron codex proves that GW isn't exactly afraid of doing a bit of a 180° turn on the direction of an army with the release of a new dex. 

Are you advising new players to pick armies that might have outdated models/units/weapon options really soon?! 

TheKingEllesar's advice was about as sound as it could get: Get a 5th ed codex and at least you'll know where the army stands. Most recent codexes also have interesting builds and alternative FOCs depending on HQ choice etc, so they'll give you more options to explore in the long run.

None of what you just said actually justifies this complete arrogant line:



> Oh, the laughs. The many, many laughs.


In fact, if your advice is to buy an outdated army now and profit later... then I'm afraid you are the joker in this thread... unish:


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## Suijin

elmir said:


> So your none-moronic, brilliant advice here, is to pick one of the armies in need of an update... so you'll be finished painting by the time the book is updated?
> 
> I'm really not getting what you are trying to say with that last comment? What the hell is the "intended range of options" of an army anyway? I think the latest necron codex proves that GW isn't exactly afraid of doing a bit of a 180° turn on the direction of an army with the release of a new dex.
> 
> Are you advising new players to pick armies that might have outdated models/units/weapon options really soon?!
> 
> TheKingEllesar's advice was about as sound as it could get: Get a 5th ed codex and at least you'll know where the army stands. Most recent codexes also have interesting builds and alternative FOCs depending on HQ choice etc, so they'll give you more options to explore in the long run.
> 
> None of what you just said actually justifies this complete arrogant line:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, if your advice is to buy an outdated army now and profit later... then I'm afraid you are the joker in this thread... unish:


Yeah I'll third TheKingEllesar's advice, except the Vanilla SM aren't all that and one of the others would be somewhat better. You could also add Necrons in there now with their new codex, although Necrons and Dark Eldar may be the more complicated choices there for list building/playing effectively.


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## centurius

I've recently come back in to the hobby, having been out of it for about 14 years. Ive been regularly reading black library books though so kept up on some of the fluff. Over the last 3 months Ive bought a few random minis off of ebay (all SM models) and am seriously undecided as to which chapter to use. I'm toying with the idea of LOTD, as I managed to pick up centurius quite cheap and Ive got a couple of other LOTD models that have come with others. Ive got Marneus calgar, a tactical squad and 2 squads of terminators plus a few blood angels terms from the newest version of space hulk. As well as these I have 2 dreadnaughts and a bike squad. I like the look of the LOTD army but am unsure as to whether or not to do something different like their predecessors the firehawks?? what do you guys think?? Im gonna take some snaps of what I have soon and start to make a project log.

Also credit to you guys, Ive read through all 21 pages of this forum this morning and for me there is loads of helpful advice here!!


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## TygerScorpion85

still can't choose :headbutt:
there all awsome:biggrin:


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## jonathan8940

This is very informative post. Keep it up.


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## dylan

*you should do spacemarines*



TygerScorpion85 said:


> still can't choose :headbutt:
> there all awsome:biggrin:


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## PROxASSASSINx

I have it down to four armies, Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, Necrons and Orks. They are the only ones not being used in my gaming group. What are the advantages of each and which one would win the most games easily.


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## TheKingElessar

Dark Eldar use speed and blistering anti-infantry fire, though their ability to reliably destroy enemy vehicles is limited. Damage, yes but destroy not so much.

Grey Knights have troops that are solid(ish) in combat and pretty good at shooting, but also lack Melta weaponry and have rather expensive choices that preclude shoehorning in everything you'll find you want. It's easy to make a bad army list with GKs.

Necrons suffer the same cost issues as GKs, though they can have greater ranged (ie, over 24") capacity than GKs - Melta is again an issue, and writing bad armies is even easier.

Ork aren't worth buying until their next Codex, possibly even then.


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## Grokfog

centurius said:


> I've recently come back in to the hobby, having been out of it for about 14 years. Ive been regularly reading black library books though so kept up on some of the fluff. Over the last 3 months Ive bought a few random minis off of ebay (all SM models) and am seriously undecided as to which chapter to use. I'm toying with the idea of LOTD, as I managed to pick up centurius quite cheap and Ive got a couple of other LOTD models that have come with others. Ive got Marneus calgar, a tactical squad and 2 squads of terminators plus a few blood angels terms from the newest version of space hulk. As well as these I have 2 dreadnaughts and a bike squad. I like the look of the LOTD army but am unsure as to whether or not to do something different like their predecessors the firehawks?? what do you guys think?? Im gonna take some snaps of what I have soon and start to make a project log.
> 
> Also credit to you guys, Ive read through all 21 pages of this forum this morning and for me there is loads of helpful advice here!!


I say go for it. I used the vanilla marine codex for my Legion army 

As a taster, say hello to Longinus, my LotD Chapter Master










I would like to point out this was done some time ago, and my painting has improved, but i just can't bring myself to redo him yet...


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## centurius

nice!! 
I have enough models now to maybe try for both firehawks and LOTD!!
I have posted some pics up in the painting forum of my first atempts in 17 years!!


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## S71GGY

This has helped me in many ways but was set on starting an UM army but now im considering orks just for the mass numbers and Close combat craziness... its a tough choice and i got until march to decide !. :scratchhead:im not sure. The cost for now isnt an issue so i dont have that problem luckily. Any opinions guys?


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## TheKingElessar

With it being generally accepted that 6th Edition will be released in the summer, starting any of the FOURTH Edition armies this year would be a tremendously bad idea in my opinion. That rules out;
Orks
Eldar
Tau
Black Templars
Dark Angels
Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Daemons

Obviously if being competitive isn't a concern for you, then don't worry so much about it - but still be aware that those armies are (theoretically) due an update, and so may be getting new models and losing some options in the next 18 months or so... Probably 3 or 4 of them will be revamped in that time, so picking one is playing army book lottery.


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## S71GGY

TheKingElessar said:


> With it being generally accepted that 6th Edition will be released in the summer, starting any of the FOURTH Edition armies this year would be a tremendously bad idea in my opinion. That rules out;
> Orks
> Eldar
> Tau
> Black Templars
> Dark Angels
> Chaos Space Marines
> Chaos Daemons
> 
> Obviously if being competitive isn't a concern for you, then don't worry so much about it - but still be aware that those armies are (theoretically) due an update, and so may be getting new models and losing some options in the next 18 months or so... Probably 3 or 4 of them will be revamped in that time, so picking one is playing army book lottery.


I noticed that is being mentioned quite regularly, i was keen on collecting UM but just been talking with a few friends and he mention Space wolves. Im not to sure how to play the game but will be learning as i collect, my intention was have an army what goes for a head on charge. After reading up on these Space Wolves they quite interest me . Any info on these would be greatly appreciated.
I was keen on orks but as you mentioned it would be army book lottery to start now.


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## nevynxxx

TheKingElessar said:


> With it being generally accepted that 6th Edition will be released in the summer, starting any of the FOURTH Edition armies this year would be a tremendously bad idea in my opinion.


I'd go the other way on that. Being old, they are likely to get updates in 6th sooner, so you'll actually be playing an army designed for the rules.

At lest that's my hope, having just started to collect Tau!

I figure keeping close to the battleforce units should be a safe bet...


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## TheKingElessar

If you stick to plastic stuff, and magnetise weaponry, sure, whatever you get will probably still be useful - the issue being that you don't know if 'soon' is 'soon enough' or if they'll get fucked over like the Sisters.


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## CattleBruiser

S71GGY, if you want an army that goes for a headlong charge then orks are probably a good idea (at 1500 points you can easily have 180 models (6 squads of 30 boyz with a nob and power klaw) and still have a couple hundred points left over. I'd also recommend a tyranid army (which can be more numerous than an ork army) or a blood angels army with a lot of assault marines (which are a lot faster and have 3+ saves)


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## S71GGY

CattleBruiser said:


> S71GGY, if you want an army that goes for a headlong charge then orks are probably a good idea (at 1500 points you can easily have 180 models (6 squads of 30 boyz with a nob and power klaw) and still have a couple hundred points left over. I'd also recommend a tyranid army (which can be more numerous than an ork army) or a blood angels army with a lot of assault marines (which are a lot faster and have 3+ saves)


the only problem i have with orks is my brother collected them many years ago and i like to be different to him and from what im hearing they are going to have a new codex out so dont wanna get half way through building to find them pointless ? im really quite new to this so im going to be slowly picking it up bit by bit.


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## S71GGY

Right after alot of time looking and thinking how i want my to look, i decided to stick with the original plan and build a Ultramarine Army, thankyou for this thread it was a great help and gave a great insight into what strengths and unique qualities each army has. Roll on payday :laugh: !


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## Evil Pickled Eggs

even though i already have an army i would have wanted to have seen this before i picked an army


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## d3m01iti0n

I picked Black Templars because I like their image and tactics. Being two updates behind wont stop the Black Tide =)


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## Antonius

I picked Imperial Guard as my 2nd army, because after developing an SM army (VERY VERY weak one at that), i fell in love with tanks and all things with an AV. Plus i find that the Russ Tank looks like a tank's tank (ie a "proper" tank), and that the whole "Mehtal Bawkses" theme was what i liked (yes i know, Chimeras are what i call Mehtal Bawkses: Deluxe edition). Imperial Guard allow you a great range of tactical options, and do mech perhaps better than SM, and can do horde well. Hell, even with the classic platoon structure, you can still go mech or hybrid (and can still be effective - AND VERY CHEAP pts wise).

However, i love the army, but remember that you might be breaking the bank for it.

Plus for the savvy shopper who goes the Full Foot route:
Instead of buying 2 Infantry squads, get 1 Infantry Squad box and then get 2x 5man painting boxes - you get enough Specials, Voxes and Sergeants for 2 squads, and it works out considerably cheaper.

Cheapass meltaguns (for the competitive meltavet player): Raid your bitz box for Multimeltas as well as meltaguns (Russ kits are ideal for this). Simply cut off the stubs of the flamers, and stick some melta stubs from the MM onto the flamer, cutting off the pipework and not including any fuel tanks. Makes 4 Meltas for no additional charge (and i don't like metal meself due to a constant case of losing superglue).

Antonius
ps: IG are also well represented by cool IA stuff as well, so don't feel limited by the options in the IG codex (lack of static artillery, aircraft, Superheavies etc)


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## The Sturk

My first (and currently only) army is Necrons. They were unique in my gaming group in that no one had them. Plus I liked the look and theme of the army. A horde of undead robots where 50% of the time (before their codex update), they got back up.

And now Necrons are one of the more powerful armies around due to their codex update and the BRB update.


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## Warlord_Winters

I'm going with Necrons when i can start getting a good income. in the future maybe Tau, IG, Orks, or Eldar. is there going to be an update on the 1st post to reflect 6th Edition changes?


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## Matcap

Right, I could use some help deciding here. 

Currently I have a Dark Angels army, which is rapidly approaching 3k. My little brother has a Tau force around 2.5k and we have the 0.4kish Chaos stuff from the DV set. 

To spice up our games, I'd like to add another army that is totally different from space marines or Tau. My current considerations are:

- Tyranids
- Orks (although another green army)
- Dark eldar (Don't really care for regular eldar)

Note I'm not looking for the top shelf "best" army, our games are usually in a quite relaxed atmosphere, but rather for something with a completely different playstyle.


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## lokyar

Grey knights are probably on par with necro's for first place starter army since they are easy to paint and have an even lower model count them your avarage SM list (draigowing or just straightup terminator spam). the lower model count is, however, set off by the fact that their models are quite expensive (€26 for a box of 5 >.<). 
great starter army if you dont mind the bland fluff.

Edit:
Grey knights are not as forgiving as most list, especially in the current shooty meta, but are pretty straightforward to build and really fun to have since there are many viable ways to play grey knights.


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## lokyar

Matcap said:


> Right, I could use some help deciding here.
> 
> Currently I have a Dark Angels army, which is rapidly approaching 3k. My little brother has a Tau force around 2.5k and we have the 0.4kish Chaos stuff from the DV set.
> 
> To spice up our games, I'd like to add another army that is totally different from space marines or Tau. My current considerations are:
> 
> - Tyranids
> - Orks (although another green army)
> - Dark eldar (Don't really care for regular eldar)
> 
> Note I'm not looking for the top shelf "best" army, our games are usually in a quite relaxed atmosphere, but rather for something with a completely different playstyle.


if you look for a differ army iwould probably look at ork or nids since DE are quite fragile and quite Tau-like (shooty mobile and fragile


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## Topcat

*Picking an army*

I have always like the look of 'Nids. you can get so damn many of
them cheaply, points wise, and they have awesome close combat
attacks.


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## MidnightSun

*Adepta Sororitas:* Unfortunately, not really a real army at this point. There are rumblings of a new book, but there have been for years and GW has neglected Sisters to the point that they’re Direct-Only and *very* expensive, with their whole army being very old pewter, now Finecast sculpts. They can pack a hell of a lot of Meltas and Flamers into an army, and they can make a reasonable Allied Detachment as one or two of their units such as Dominion Squads are still very strong, but as a pure force they are terribly lacking. The most expensive army to buy, hands-down.


*Astra Militarum:* Formerly known as the Imperial Guard, the human armies of the Imperium are characterised by their list-building options; you can bring a truly vast horde of infantry, a battalion of tanks, a rapid response force of air cavalry, or bring down the sky with a huge number of artillery guns. Once ‘locked in’ to a certain build, they tend to lack on-board flexibility, and they tend to be one of the less mobile armies, but they can command a huge amount of firepower, are very resilient through sheer weight of numbers or very heavily-armoured tanks, and can reach across the board with impunity. Shooting is their forte, but a enough Guardsmen fixing bayonets with a few well-chosen characters to help them out can deal a surprising amount of damage and soak up a lot of fire. They’re an expensive force, as the amount of Guardsmen or transports you’ll need is quite large, but they do get a fair selection of boxed deals to help out and their tanks can get quite expensive with upgrades which can mitigate the high price of the infantry swarms.


*Blood Angels:* A more mobile, faster variant of Space Marines with a focus on assault over the shooting-centric, more flexible Space Marines. With fairly cheap buff characters to reach high Weapon Skill, Initiative and Attacks values combined with army-wide Furious Charge to hit very hard when they charge, Blood Angels will attack first and attack hard. A high number of Melta weapons allows them to kill tanks once they get in close, and their anti-infantry power in combat is unparalleled with the feared Death Company, but they can have issues with killing enemy combat units even more powerful than they are or high-toughness monsters outside of firing a lot of Meltaguns at them. They end up being a similar price to Space Marines, with some lovely plastic kits, but can edge up as they utilise a lot of Jump Pack troops which come in 5-man boxes - however, overall, they work out cheaper than buying regular Space Marines plus a Transport, which is common for Space Marine special units.


*Chaos Space Marines--* Chaos Space Marines tend towards fast melee units backed up by powerful anti-infantry firepower. One of the premier books for killing Space Marines, with a large number of AP3, often Ignores Cover weapons, and various specific anti-Space Marine advantages such as Preferred Enemy or Hatred. They also have very strong HQ options, which can be a big appeal to someone who likes their heroes (or rather, anti-heroes) to be real monsters in combat. They are also a fair bit cheaper than their Loyalist brethren and benefit from larger squad sizes as well as an in-Codex horde choice in Cultists, meaning that you can really flood the field with more Marine bodies than many people are used to. Their downsides tend to be Leadership and long-ranged, anti-tank shooting; while Meltaguns will do a spectacular job up close, and Autocannons are fairly common, Chaos can often struggle to deal with heavily armoured tanks or vehicles in cover. They also have higher Leadership than the Loyalist counterparts, but at the cost of losing And They Shall Know No Fear. As a result, you often have to be wary of being run down in combat or losing valuable firepower while your troops rally. Models-wise, Chaos are probably the most diverse range of miniatures: they get their own, rather nice range of models, plus the whole range of Space Marines ready for you to subvert to the whims of the Dark Gods. They can end up on the pricey side if you want a horde of models, but they average out in the middle of the pack in terms of price; especially so as they’re in the starter set.


*Chaos Daemons:* Chaos Daemons are a very random army that only plays by the rules in the technical sense. They can bring a lot of psychic powers, summoning more units from beyond the veil, and they can pull some crazy tricks with their gimmicks and non-summoning psychic powers; the infamous Screamerstar and Flying Circus are both Daemon builds - the former being a unit of nigh-invincible giant daemonic lampreys, and the latter being a sky full of very large, very strong Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes. They are a *very* random army, with their wargear selections being mostly randomised and a random chart to roll on in every shooting phase, which can lead to a very dice-dependant playstyle. Mitigating this, and the various synergies and combos needed to make units perform at their most efficient as well as the rather 'screw the rules, we play our own way' nature of a lot of their successful builds means Daemons are not particularly forgiving on new players. They’re a very expensive army as a lot of their units come in small box sizes; the Greater Daemons are also in desperate need of a re-sculpt. They do get a rather lovely multi-use plastic Daemon Prince kit ripe for conversions for a reasonable price, however; and even a few of them will push up your collection’s points value significantly. They’re an interesting army to paint, with at least four distinct styles and colours to use which can offset the ennui many painters get when painting an entire army - if you get bored of painting red, paint a few Tzeentch daemons or Nurgle daemons to have a break.


*Dark Angels:* Commonly known as Space Marines: Alpha Release, Dark Angels have always played second fiddle to Space Marines. Nominally a bikes-n-Terminators army, they have basically strictly inferior options for both to their cousins in Codex: Space Marines or Codex: Grey Knights. They have some unique gear, for sure, and they can pull some interesting tricks (all revolving around one piece of wargear, the Standard of Devastation, which turns your Boltguns into weapons of mass destruction) but are generally quite gimmicky and fall through if used against the same opponent a lot. They have a very grim, gothic feel - even for Space Marines! They get the whole Space Marines range plus some very cool extra kits for their Bikers, Terminators and some other specialist units, although they inexplicably lack access to some of the Space Marine gear. Apparently they have a new Codex on the way, which could do a lot to help them out. They're also in the starter set, and it's a pretty good deal; all of the units in it bar the Company Master are fairly good, and you can pick them up uber-cheap if you don't mind having a lot of the same model. They also have a focus on Plasma weapons and anti-Chaos rules, making them a pretty good bet against other 'traditional' Marine or Marine derivative forces (i.e. a Chaos, Space Wolf, Blood Angel or Space Marine army built around a core of flexible superhumans in transports or on foot, with some support elements).


*Dark Eldar--* Dark Eldar are a very, very shooty army. They can absolutely devastate all manner of targets under a deluge of Poisoned shots and Lance fire. Rare is the enemy that can stand 18” from a Dark Eldar army and live to tell the tale. The trick is reaching the enemy to fire those horrible guns; while Dark Eldar are very fast, they’re also extraordinarily fragile per-point. Their vehicles are all Skimmers, and they can save a lot of shots through Jink, but if anyone shows up to the party with a Heavy Flamer or a Smart Missile System, you can be in big trouble. They dominate the movement and shooting phases; while they have melee units, they’re very glass cannon in nature (moreso than the rest of the army!) and are ill-suited to fights that they can’t win in the first round. A total lack of Psykers can also leave you at the mercy of a strong psychic presence from your opponent, which while unlikely to lose you the game, can make things very inconvenient as you watch powerful buffs and debuffs get slung around the board with no real way to stop them. Their models are widely regarded as exquisite, although you will tend to need a large number of vehicles to help you move around the field and protect your fragile infantry.

*Eldar--* Fast, devastating shooting, and fragile infantry inside very tough (but hardly numerous) transport vehicles. A lot of Eldar armies are based entirely around the Wave Serpent transport which is infamous for it's extremely capable shooting, but it’s very possible to bring an interesting and diverse army for Eldar. Each unit is very, very good at one specific task, and while it can be a challenge to get your units working in synergy (and their fragility and cost will punish you if you get it wrong), if you pull it off they can supply a hard counter to almost any threat. A painter's army; Each squad type has its own distinctive costume, and you can really go to town on Harlequins and some of the grav vehicles. A lot of their Elites units are finecast, so they're pricey if you want to bring a lot of Aspect Warriors, but they’re far from required and you can often make very convincing conversions from the Eldar and Dark Eldar plastic ranges.


*Grey Knights:* Paladins in space! A very elite, very low model count army, generally relying on their very much superior wargear to win the day (they tend to start expensive, but with very cheap and very powerful options which must be bought with care lest your ultra-elite strike force gets overwhelmed 15:1). Nominally a Space Marine army, but very much less forgiving; the standard Grey Knight costs around half as much again as a regular Space Marine, but shares the same defensive stats. They are quite challenging to master, needing a deal of good judgement in the distribution of Warp Charge in the Psychic Phase and a careful eye during list-building (while they get incredibly good deals on their wargear, good deals on things you don’t absolutely need aren’t good deals at all for very expensive models). In the new book, they usually end up being Terminator-based, and I can personally attest that they are a very cheap army to build simply through their elite nature (Paladins can reach upwards of 400pts for 5 models!). A lot of veteran players regard them as a poor army on the table due to their fall from ‘very, very powerful’ in the previous book; I disagree, and simply think they are very different now and perhaps more balanced than in their previous incarnation. Their models have a lot of details, and are supposed to have individual heraldry which offers a lot of scope and a very striking bright silver, red and white palette when painted in the traditional scheme; however, painting Force Weapons can be a challenge, and as the vast majority of their is either a Power-Armoured Grey Knight with a different gun or backpack, or a Terminator with a different head and icon, they can get repetitive. Easier for beginners than something like Daemons or Tyranids, but not an army I’d immediately suggest for a new player.


*Imperial Knights:* A very strange army indeed. Without a doubt, the lowest model count army, consisting of generally fewer than five towering Imperial Knights, huge mechanical walkers controlled by a nobleman pilot. A recent addition to 40k, they’re generally used as a ‘plug-in’ to a ‘normal’ army; whole armies of Knights are comparatively rare. They don’t follow the rules for vehicles as laid out in the rulebook at all, instead using the Super-Heavy vehicle rules, and have all manner of exceptions and new mechanics. They’re not awfully complicated, being big stompy robots with giant chainsaws, but they take some considerable co-ordination to avoid having them out-manoeuvred and ground down by anti-tank fire. They’re at least quite cheap (while Knights are expensive individually, you won’t see more than six on the table even in big games), but more of a tool to add to the more advanced player’s toolbox.


*Necrons—* Arguably the easiest army to paint. A basecoat of silver, a black wash and five minutes picking out details will look effective on a lot of your units, infantry and vehicle. That’s not to say that they have no potential; the fine and unique detail on a lot of the characters and elite units can be made truly spectacular by a willing painter. On the table, Necrons are a very forgiving army simply through their resilience and army-building flexibility; while lacking in extreme long range shooting, Necrons can make very convincing hordes, air forces, armoured spearheads, mechanised infantry forces, fast-moving melee forces or close combat death stars. They do have some oddball unique rules that, while simplified in their new Codex, can still be tricky for a new player to grasp (their vehicles in particular don’t like playing by the rules). Despite this, their resilience, large range of all-plastic kits and fairly basic core tactics make them a strong choice for a beginner, with scope to expand outwards into their fancier gimmicks once you have a stronger grasp of the game.


*Orks--* Orks can get expensive financially as their infantry are so darn cheap – even a relatively low model count army is looking at perhaps 80 Boyz, and it’s not uncommon to see 120 or more belligerent greenskins on the table. Many players prefer to run a vehicle-based army, which Orks can do very well - and with the Ork vehicle kits being as brilliant as they are, with an easy-to-build basic chassis with sprue upon sprue of customisation options, it’s not hard to see why. Orks are quite flexible, if a little simple; they don’t have an awful lot of fancy things, but they can put out a fairly terrifying (albeit wildly inaccurate) amount of firepower backed up by strong close combat; every Ork, even one with the biggest gun he can lay his grubby hands on, would prefer to get stuck in if he can. They’re regarded as a very comic race, with a lot of gear that blows up or has random effects (from relatively safe items such as the Kustom Blasta weapons, to the epitome of wildcard; the Shokk Attack Gun, firing terrified goblins through wormholes!). Painting them can get boring through the sheer number of them, but you can get through a surprising number of Boyz quickly by ‘batch painting’ (painting a large number of models in stages as if they were on model; doing all the basecoats, then all the layering etc. on the whole group at the same time), and the Orky patterns of checks, dags and glyphs can break up the sea of green, brown and rusty metal.


*Space Marines—* Regarded by many as ‘boring’, Space Marines are the poster boys of 40k and are widely seen as _the_ army for beginners. They’re forgiving on the field, very flexible regardless of army list (unlike most forces, where you choose to be a shooting or a combat army when you make your army list, most Space Marine units can pull double duties, holding back against an Ork or Daemon army but charging into a Tau or Eldar army), and have a huge range of plastic kits. They’re almost infinitely customisable in terms of fluff and painting, with 1000 Chapters of which only a fairly small percentage have been formally fleshed out as canon. Most Chapters tend to have a ‘theme’, whether the Greco-Roman Ultramarines, the Spartan themed Minotaurs, or the Mongol White Scars, which allows you to combine your army with other areas of interest if you so wish. Space Marines are the most flexible in terms of army-building, too; while rather too elite to be a horde, they can be mobile or static, melee focussed or ranged, mechanized, foot or hybrid, and their Chapter Tactics special rules allow you to tailor your army into something very personal.


*Space Wolves --* Viking Space Marines. Another melee-oriented force, but concentrated more on brute strength than the mobility and skill of the Blood Angels. They generally operate as a close-range version of Space Marines, with a lot of little bonuses to close-range fighting and melee combat but somewhat lacking in the heavier weapons or the more diverse tools that Space Marines can bring such as Chapter Tactics or 'swiss army units' like Sternguard Veterans. Their aesthetic is a source of some controversy; they're very heavily norse-themed, but with an awful lot of wolf pelts and tails everywhere and a unit of Space Marines riding giant wolves (which is ridiculous and utterly metal in equal measure). They are basically the same price as Space Marines, being basically the same army but with units doing different things and the option to bring more models over transports (which, conveniently, price comparably with the extra 10 guys).


*Tau Empire—*If you like gundam, or indeed any form of mecha, then the Tau might well be for you. An incredibly versatile shooting army, the Tau Empire can bring a gun for every situation and then some. Where Eldar have a lot of very specialised units that are excellent at one role, Tau tend to have a few fairly generic units with a tonne of options to make them into specialists. They excel at long-range firepower against units of all types (although much of their most potent anti-tank fire comes on short-range Melta-class weapons; albeit still double the range of anybody else’s), but have absolutely abysmal combat stats and can suffer from morale and leadership issues. They’re also home to some of the coolest sci-fi names in the game, boasting such gadgets as the Multi-Spectral Sensor Suite, the Puretide Engram Neurochip, Impact Repulsor Fields and Cyclic Ion Cannons. Widely regarded as one of the most powerful races in the game as their forte, high strength high volume firepower, is rewarded by the rules framework and their weakness, close combat, tends not to be as powerful an option anyway. They can be tricky for a new player to master as they have a fairly central mechanic of ‘Markerlights’ to mitigate their somewhat low accuracy and to crack enemies hiding in cover as well as their almost-unique Jetpack Infantry unit type, but they still make an excellent force for beginners due to the sheer versatility of the various Battlesuits and the strength of their shooting. They’re reasonably cheap to build as an army to boot.


*Tyranids--* Tyranids are possibly the most expensive 40k army simply due to the number of models you’ll need. But oh, how many models! Tyranids are a truly terrifying horde army, easily able to outnumber even Orks or Astra Militarum with waves of ravenous sickle-armed aliens intent on eating everything in their path! An interesting army to paint as they are entirely biological; there are some very impressive Tyranid models out there using hot glue guns, varnishes and glazes to recreate drool, digestive fluids and all manner of fairly nasty glistening alien-ness (really, there’s no other word for it!). That’s not to say you have to be an expert modeller and painter though; a simple basecoat and wash for the flesh with a layered carapace will be absolutely fine in most cases, although a lot of Tyranid players never fully paint their collections through sheer exhaustion. On the tabletop, they are a very versatile army that have been given new life and a lot of flexibility by a spree of additional releases, comparable to DLCs, from Games Workshop and Black Library. They tend to go for quality over quantity, especially in their shooting, but it’s not uncommon to see armies of huge hulking monsters (so-called Nidzilla builds), and they have all manner of ways to get within arm’s reach; burrowing serpine or worm-like Raveners and their gigantic cousins, Mawlocs; swarms of insectoid or chiropteran Gargoyles and Harpies; or plain old carpets of scuttling horrors. I wouldn’t immediately recommend them to a beginner; they require a fair amount of skill to synergise effectively, and have a completely alien morale system (they are totally fearless as long as they stay within proximity of the larger ‘synapse’ creatures, but are prone to reverting to their bestial instincts and going out of the player’s control should the central synapse links be too far away or killed).


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## DelvarusThePitFighter

The larger the battle, the more DE will struggle. I have a cosy little 500pt force on the side because i loved some of the models and they're alright in assault. However, being a 'Hitty' kind of player, my 1000pts of Khorne Daemons definitely out do the DE in that aspect


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## Lord Lucian

Love Reading these posts, soooo helpful!


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## PopularSauce

*Inquisition*

So glad Inquisition wasn't on the list, in fact none of the new armies would be great for beginners. Mechanicus doesn't have many units to choose from, and let's not talk about Harlequins eh?


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## jondiversofleeds

Zeldrin said:


> Pickles, that post of yours seem like a really good idea. Anything that saves people money is always good. Pointing out conversions and models that fit in any army may be really useful for a new player or an old veteran venturing into new territory. Not sure how other people feel about it, but I think a series of this style of article/post could be extremely useful. Personally, I would love to hear a little more about the dark eldar. In all my years of playing I have never seen a dark eldar force fielded. Only the manager of my local GW had one and he never broke it out because it was too powerful.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Zeldrin


I shall resight this many times


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