# Is Games Workshop dying?



## eyescrossed (Mar 31, 2011)

In Australia, at least. I mean the price increases, coupled with the embargo and loyal customers being shafted in favour of the newer ones who are far less likely to stay around paints a bad picture for Games Workshop, at least in my opinion.

You also only need to look at the amount of tournaments to see what systems are more popular:

In WA alone, this year, there have been half a dozen Warmahordes events. There are additional events in planning stages now. This is up from only a few in the previous year.

Malifaux. Last year, none. This year, four.

There are events in planning for Infinity & Flames. Previously, these games did not get support. Now they have leagues and tournaments in their immediate future.

Now, let's look at Fantasy and 40k. 40k has been pretty consistent, but Fantasy...

2010: Nine events. Not too shabby. Most of them sold out, too.
2011: Seven events. Most running minimum player count of 16. 

And 40k:

2010: 10 events, 11 including an Apoc tourney. Not bad.
2011: 10 again. So 40k is holding on. But it's still not growth. Just diehards who don't hate their system enough to quite.


*+++TL;DR: Games Workshop are basically getting buttfucked in Australia. I predict that they won't last here another 5 years, a decade at most.+++*


What are your thoughts?


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

i think its just a current trend of GW, they are making less money, most correlate this to lack of player growth/expansion of current armies/new armies, so they are making more "drastic" measures by enforcing E-bargos and raising prices.

GW will never "lose" Australia, but they are making the gamers who play GW stuff only less & less.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

I think GW needs to open the store they promise on time....Or hordes will keep gaining more and more of there player base.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

It's definitely not as popular as it was in 2001-2003. I remember having at least twice as many places to buy GW and play games, as now. Also, there were several Games Day and Grand Tournaments per year. Now, there's only one Games Day and no Grand Tournament?

I think a lot of this has to do with the slump in the economy, coupled with the price increase of models and books. While the old product was definitely of lesser quality, it was also affordable to the average person.


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## Alexious (Apr 13, 2009)

The Australian arm of GW is facing challenges. However not all of these are of GW's making. The local economy is what is most challenging for any retailer here.

1). Australia is suffering retail wise generally. We have seen a lot of bricks and mortar stores close or have to reinvent themselves here to be successful. Unfortunately for GW they have a world wide marketing strategy that is costing them here in Oz... they are only going after the new market not established gamer division so to speak. This means people like me... those who are a little older with good disposable income are lost to the local GW store. They have aimed for the screaming 12 year old market not understanding that unfortunately this market is dying... kids play vid games and stuff a lot more than they did 10 or even 15 years ago. The competition for that dollar that a kid has... is huge.

2). GW is in a market notorious for stupidity. The gamer sits back and is super critical of GW at any chance he or she gets. They whine... about how their wolf man barbies are not good vs.... etc. They complain about a price rise every year, and they are terrible tight wads. They also go on a public rant about the company as if it is evil. The talk of GW dying... is just that... talk.. the big longer term issue is why are gamers doing this? 

It is a bit like bank bashing to a large degree... people hate banks and bankers... they caused this, they caused that... but the local bank manager didnt put a gun to your head and say buy this house at this interest rate... and then people get upset when it comes apart. Well if you can't afford it live within your means... GW is the same you knew what the game was like when you got into it... and unfortunately GW is a hobby not a competitive war gaming game first and foremost. People whine about updates and rules... and some are quite legitimate claims.. but those same people... a LOT of them not all of them... are the ones who you see with a see of unpainted plastic. The truth could be best be summed up as.... you want a fair competitive war game... try chess. You want a hobby that is about conversion, creativity and challenge to play against others... then try 40k or fantasy. But don't whine about it. GW is a company that has a budget and a cost of doing business. It probably wasn't cost effective to do SOB as a codex honestly... so tough. If you had 100 dollars and I said hey invest in this product and the return would be 120 for the year... you would say ok... but if I could get 160 back which are you going to invest in? Thats why we see marines everywhere! They sell more.... they have had a 20 year market background as the prime GW model.. so yes they DO get the attention... why people whine their sister superior doesn't have the latest bolt gun combi flamer option that is OMG so awesome for a WAAC list... don't appreciate that the company won't make it... as it won't make a return decent enough on the cash!

So what helps kill GW? Thats right its it own player base to a large extent. As they become more demanding and begin to treat GW as if it was not a vehicle to play a game with... but the outrage that is OMG you havent updated the Tau codex yet is worse than the Syrian regime murdering people. This attitude is costing the game. 

That said GW does itself no favors, and the vheicle it has to fix this is WD... and perhaps the last two months have seen a slight change in how they are doing this. They are doing more rules stuff and answering the questions that players have. But GW is right in some ways too... If I had 10,000.00 I wouldnt buy GW shares unless I could see a return on my investment... and how do you decide where to invest it? Typically on past data.... and what is working. SOB and Tau obviously were not a great investment vehicle.. that is the truth of the matter. Get over it... move on. Pick another race of space barbies if your not happy with it.. or if you love them that much.. then you knew what you were getting and you have had ample time to understand it.

3). Wargaming in Oz... is tough. I am Sydney based. To get to any other tournament is rather difficult or not cost effective. Why spent 300 bucks to get to Melbourne to play and then thats just a night stay... The other thing is that the wargaming scene is fragmented. Lots of us are mates in sheds or dining tables rather than the FLGS types. When that mates with sheds falls apart due to age or kids, or damn wife is shitty... then that is lost and most of these players are nice blokes.. but they are not the hey lets go to the pub and pick up a few 40k players... they play with an established group that when they have lost a member they don't replace it, and breaking into those groups is almost impossible. This help kills the game too. 

4). Lastly.... If GW is to survive, they need to invest in more retial savy management here in OZ and give them rope. Stop employing 20 something management they pay crap and employ 30 and 40 something business owners that understand profit and loss and can market to the local community.

If i was GW oz manager in Sydney CBD...

1). Coffee machine.
2). Veteran Night.
3). Teach the kids night/day
4). Store Campaings for each vehicle. Done monthly....
5). Hobby conversion nights.
6). Loyalty rewards program.

The above you cannot get on the internet... thats the point of difference that GW need to introduce to their Oz market if they are to survive.

End slight rant of evil middle aged single bloke with disposable income who might not love GW... but they aren't killing children... so stop acting like they are. K Thnks bye!


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

I did some extensive research on GW and i discovered that the fundamental burn out factor of GW players is exceptional.

The burn out factor for GW over 10 years is 99%.

In my local area we had four GW leagues 18 months ago, now we have only one, in my local area we have 3 indies, one has decided to allow his lisence agreement lapse then do a fire sale to dump GW products to expand his ever growing Radio Control section, another has decided to cull as much as possible and only stock core 40K and WHFB product, however LoTR has been dumped.

The other indie relies on Magic the Gathering, Pokemon and Yugi to survive.

The sad fact is that in the last fiscal year GW sales dropped 11%. This drop in overall sales does not take into account the last round of price increases, embargo and Metal to resin swapover.

But what has angered most is that of GW policy of not releasing product information several months in advance as so folks can plan for future releases and save up monies for purchases.

*Overall one major factor is that regardless of what the actual situations of conducting retail trade in Australia, GW has a major problem in explaining to Australian and New Zealand customers that we pay on average 87.5% mark up over European and Noth American prices.*


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

If they released that 6th edition rule book would come out in January, how are they gonna sell all those 5th edition books from now till then? Same with any soon to be oop models.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

jaysen said:


> If they released that 6th edition rule book would come out in January, how are they gonna sell all those 5th edition books from now till then? Same with any soon to be oop models.


I imagine that rulebooks sell very poorly outside of around the 6 month period after an edition's release, so that concern is pretty negligible. Most people get their BRBs at release, with people getting rulebooks at later dates via starter sets. As for models soon to be discontinued, people are probably more likely to buy a model they like which they do not own that is about to go OOP. If people already have the model, they're not going to buy regardless of whether it will be discontinued, so they've already lost the sale, yet someone who wants the model (so a purchase they've already secured) is more than likely finally going go get off their arse and buy the mini they want for their force.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

I called someone that works for GW Australia and i asked why does Australia has an 87.5% mark up, well this is what my contact tells me.

Australia has one of the highest retail rents in the world, Sydney the third highest in the world, per capita we have one of the highest pay rates in the world, per capita we have the highest penalty rates in the world, per capita we have the highest public liability insurances in the world.

Australia has the highest internal shipment costs in the world.

This is not specific to GW Australia this is across all Bricks and Mortar retail outlets.

I was told that if we had the same situations as say the USA or Europe with expenditure the costs of GW product would be much cheaper.

Unfortunately we are victims of circumstances.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)




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## Tanarri (Jun 23, 2011)

Alexious said:


> Typically on past data.... and what is working. SOB and Tau obviously were not a great investment vehicle.. that is the truth of the matter.


I am not so sure of that atleast based on my area out of the 20 or so people I know play 5 of them have tau as their main army and another 3 have small tau armies. As for Sisters there are only 2 players but there are a few people myself included that just can't stomach paying for an all metal blister army. 

If sisters had plastics more people would play them. 

Also if you focus on product line as a company it is bound to do better then any other product line especially lines that haven't seen anything new in 10 years. 

Yes space marines will sell better then other lines but I don't think they would sell that much better if other lines received the same amount of support.


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## Alexious (Apr 13, 2009)

Tanarri said:


> I am not so sure of that atleast based on my area out of the 20 or so people I know play 5 of them have tau as their main army and another 3 have small tau armies. As for Sisters there are only 2 players but there are a few people myself included that just can't stomach paying for an all metal blister army.
> 
> So what does that tell you? Obviously... SOB is an army that is going to be collected in the main by longer term players who are prepared to pay for it. Your right it will stop newer players.. but the cost of doing them in plastic is obviously not worth the sales they generate...
> 
> ...


So invest a heap of new money to get that already spent pool of dollars to move to another product? No point... if you have a long term brand... you keep going as the cost to increase the sales is less as everyone will in the main support it. You don't then promote another label as heavily that is not generating that cash... all you will do is move the dollars that people were going to spend to a different line of the same company.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

I concur with the view of SoB GW through WD brought out SoB Codex pt's 1 and 2 and yet no product support with new models, it shows how bad GW is, if GW was going to do this right then with all the planning either August or September should have seen a full Sisters Codex and a whole new Sister plastic/resin army release.

This is a consistant fail on GW, this is what happens when a company started by Gaming folk grows to a size that is taken over by beurocrats in suits.

I will predict that GW Australia will be down in sales by 15% this fiscal year, even worse in New Zealand.

Privateer Press would not have done this.


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Dying? No.

Inflicted with mild retardation? Yes.

I blame the elbow licking rules developers. They're about as useful as a 2 inch cock.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Jezlad said:


> Dying? No.
> 
> Inflicted with mild retardation? Yes.
> 
> I blame the elbow licking rules developers. They're about as useful as a 2 inch cock.


Mild Retardation? I think it's a bit more severe than that! :laugh:


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Achaylus72 said:


> I concur with the view of SoB GW through WD brought out SoB Codex pt's 1 and 2 and yet no product support with new models, it shows how bad GW is, if GW was going to do this right then with all the planning either August or September should have seen a full Sisters Codex and a whole new Sister plastic/resin army release.


Well, somebody has to be last in line. it's Sisters. They were kind enough to slap together a WD codex to try and get people by. Also it helps them playtest things in the community without investing in a whole new codex. Allowing for them to try things out and fix them when the real book comes out. I'm sure Tyranid players and Chaos players would have loved a bit of consultation before their books came out. Now those players are stuck with them for 8+ years.


Of course they're not releasing an entire new line of models to support a WD codex. This is a stop-gap, not an full investment of their time. If Sisters were coming out with their full line now then Necrons and others would be bumped back.

Check out GWs rate of production the last two years. Compare that to the last 10. They have been cranking out the codices/army books like mad.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Plus, they made a whole new line of dark eldar, a lot of tyranid, 3 new blood angels boxes, a whole line of grey knight models, all within a year. That's probably a record for them.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Not to mention all of the WHFB releases as well.

Bitches gonna Bitch though I guess.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Most of the guys I game with have given up and I haven't bought anything new for a couple of months now. There's other miniatures that I like just as much and they're half, if not more, the GW cost. 

It's weird, I actually have money in my wallet. I'm not sure what to do with it.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Most of the guys I game with have given up and I haven't bought anything new for a couple of months now. There's other miniatures that I like just as much and they're half, if not more, the GW cost.
> 
> It's weird, I actually have money in my wallet. I'm not sure what to do with it.


To the PUB


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Alexious said:


> 3). Wargaming in Oz... is tough. I am Sydney based. To get to any other tournament is rather difficult or not cost effective. Why spent 300 bucks to get to Melbourne to play and then thats just a night stay... The other thing is that the wargaming scene is fragmented. Lots of us are mates in sheds or dining tables rather than the FLGS types. When that mates with sheds falls apart due to age or kids, or damn wife is shitty... then that is lost and most of these players are nice blokes.. but they are not the hey lets go to the pub and pick up a few 40k players... they play with an established group that when they have lost a member they don't replace it, and breaking into those groups is almost impossible. This help kills the game too.


Wargaming in Oz has ALWAYS been fragmented. It's got more cliquey and enclave-like in the last 20 years though.

There ARE tournaments in Sydney on a regular basis - Leviathan (Easter), Lords (July), MOAB (October) are the majors (multi-game tourneys) but there are also smaller tourneys focussed on one or two games every couple of months. You don't HAVE to go to Melbourne for these things (although gone are the days when Tin Soldier used to hold conventions in the old Haymarket Sydney TAFE campus (now part of the UTS). It's just too expensive to hire a venue in the CBD. They've moved west in response to the population centre shifting west.



Alexious said:


> 1). Coffee machine.
> 2). Veteran Night.
> 3). Teach the kids night/day
> 4). Store Campaings for each vehicle. Done monthly....
> ...


GW Sydney DID at one point have 1), they used to run 2) on thursday nights, have 5) and GW used to do a 6) (anyone else remember the skullz?).

This was in the early days though. For the first two years they were open (coffee machine).
These days, they just delay the getting the folding stuff away from the parents, and hustling them out the door.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

I know at my local club in the last 2 years GW has died. We have maybe one game a week everybody else plays Malifaux, WM/H, Infinity or other games. Nobody has quit wargaming they have all just quit GW.

I know I have brought nothing new or played a game in the last 2 years and I am slowly selling all my 40k models. 
The reason seems to be lack of balance, poor and simple rules, the amount of models needed for a game,increasingly poor fluff. I suppose price as well but most people probably spend the same about on other games as they did with 40k.


For me it came down to poor rules and the size of armies. Carrying an Ork army on the tube to my club was just a pain. Every time I am at the club I feel sorry for those people pulling out 150 models to set up for a game. 

Looking at other clubs in London GW does seem to be dieing in the local Club scene, one or two clubs still have quite a few GW games on but they also seem to have just as many or more non-gw games going on.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

3 out of the 4 clubs in my area have died, i have seen that in the last two years over 100 GW players quit the hobby, many of them switched over to the Collectible Card Games like Magic the Gathering.

I predict that GW is not looking forward to seeing next years sales figures here in Australia, i predict that overall sales will drop by more than 15%, this on top of an already 11% last fiscal year, to a staggering 24.65% sales drop in two years, this can not continue.

The embargo on top of the massive price rise on most products, will take effect this fiscal year. 

I give GW no more than 5 years at best in Australasia.


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## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

My nearest Gw, has died completely. though i put this down to a change of managment more than anything else. The whole staff had changed there and now the whole shop is poorly stocked and games and tournaments are badly managed. 

heck i even miss the old manager , mostly becuase he had a voice (this part may sound a bit gay) that was brilliant for naration , any campaign 40k , normal , even lotr he just had the voice and a knack for saying the right things . even my first proper game when he was showing me what to do , his descriptions justed made the game sound well better. 
but now the store has a incompetent manager , who cant keep the store stocked and closes the shop every few hours so he can get something to eat.


plus the price rises are driving people away. plus the codexs ect. 

but mostly i put the blame on my local gw going down the pan to the crappy management rather than prices. .


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

on a personnel level gw died for me ages ago, I still buy a few bits from cheaper places with 10-20% off, or search around car boots or online, but I'm not really serious about it in any capacity anymore.

yeah I wanna do a traitor guard force, but with Tamiya kits because its cheaper (which is certainly saying something) and yeah FW always release something shiny to buy, but with a lack of customer care/support, lack of system support, lack of quality control and lack of fair pricing all my money goes to independent stores, or other manufaturers.

heck the amount of model kits I can afford now I don't do anything from GW is redonculous, I got 2 whole boxes full of airfix, tamiya and even friggin hasegawa kits, which are more expensive than gold.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

lemage indicates one thing in his post that for the life of me i just don't understand on a commercial basis and that is GW investing so much on Lord of the Rings and now the Hobbit series.

I have gone to many GW stores and i just see shelf after shelf with LoTR stock gathering dust, and when i mean dust i mean lots of it, in my area very few buy LoTR and i have in the last 12 to 18 months have not seen one LoTR's game being played.

My suggestion would be to dump LoTR's and expand 40K and Fantasy, hell with the added shelf space we can actually see all those GW speciallist games like Bloodbowl, Necromunda and the like on the shelves.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

Achaylus72 said:


> I have gone to many GW stores and i just see shelf after shelf with LoTR stock gathering dust


wish I could go to your store, be nice to have stock for the only good main system GW does


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Yeah, I've only seen 1-2 actual LotR games and I don't know many people who collect them. 

I think the rise in boxset prices and the fall in the average wages and loss of work has caused most of the loss of players. Of course, I'm still going strong. And many others as well.

The funny thing is a lot of people talk about how GW is failing and all, but if you go on ebay, you don't see people wholesaling their armies for nothing like back in 2007. If the game truly dies, that will be the indicator, ebay prices for used armies will plummet to nothing and you'll see space marines going for $100 an army.

The main thing that is failing is the gaming centers. I think the models themselves are still moving through internet sales and such. The gaming centers that rely on in store sales are failing.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

jaysen said:


> Yeah, I've only seen 1-2 actual LotR games and I don't know many people who collect them.
> 
> I think the rise in boxset prices and the fall in the average wages and loss of work has caused most of the loss of players. Of course, I'm still going strong. And many others as well.
> 
> ...


Yes but it is the Gaming centres that are the coalface of the industry. GW through its own Bricks and Motar stores and through independents with shopfronts are key to it's very survival.

This is the first point of contact with just about every player that has either played the game or has gotten into the hobby as a collector.

Without shopfronts and floor staff GW is dead. You can't demonstrate a game to a kid via the internet, because in the end of the day it isn't the kid you need to convince to hand over the folding, it is the parents.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Yeah....no. I played GW games for 10 years before even seeing an "official" store. Local shops do a much better job than the knobheaded redshirts in GWs stores.

Still alive and well here. Collecting a new Ork army, starting up a Necromunda league, and trying to come up with cool scenario ideas for the next three tournaments my local group will be running before year's end.

I have yet to see anything with the scope and depth to compete with GW's games. Of course that's just me...and the 20+ members of my local club.


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

EDIT: Nevermind.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

Achaylus72 said:


> You can't demonstrate a game to a kid via the internet, because in the end of the day it isn't the kid you need to convince to hand over the folding, it is the parents.


I agree with the whole Demo thing. BUT Kids are more then often capable of convincing their parents themselves. how often I haven't played a demo with a kid while the parents where somewhere else in town.


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## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

Achaylus72 said:


> My suggestion would be to dump LoTR's and expand 40K and Fantasy, hell with the added shelf space we can actually see all those GW speciallist games like Bloodbowl, Necromunda and the like on the shelves.


sadly that wont be happening soon but it may be dumped in two years. sadly "The Hobbit" is being released and GW wont miss that opportunity, though if they dont see much of a sales rise after that , i should think they will be dropping it.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

lemage said:


> sadly that wont be happening soon but it may be dumped in two years. sadly "The Hobbit" is being released and GW wont miss that opportunity, though if they dont see much of a sales rise after that , i should think they will be dropping it.


On the other hand, GW if they wanted to would be to offload both Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit to the Secondary Licensing market, meaning that they can partially sell the license or lease the license but still maintain control.

This has the effect that another manufacture takes over to produce the product but GW still earns monies from that product, this then allows GW to bring out more of its own stuff.


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## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

Achaylus72 said:


> On the other hand, GW if they wanted to would be to offload both Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit to the Secondary Licensing market, meaning that they can partially sell the license or lease the license but still maintain control.
> 
> This has the effect that another manufacture takes over to produce the product but GW still earns monies from that product, this then allows GW to bring out more of its own stuff.


I'm a firm believer in the conspiracy theory that lotr was basically made to draw people into the store ,then into the core systems . 

That's the reason it's still in the stores , but now my old post has just effectively been rendered useless as i found out the licensing has been extended for another six years . so the least played system has to be left on the shelves untouched until 2017.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

lemage said:


> so the least played system has to be left on the shelves untouched until 2017.


thank god for that, gives me something to still be interested in


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## Phobos (Aug 28, 2011)

lemage said:


> I'm a firm believer in the conspiracy theory that lotr was basically made to draw people into the store ,then into the core systems .
> 
> That's the reason it's still in the stores , but now my old post has just effectively been rendered useless as i found out the licensing has been extended for another six years . so the least played system has to be left on the shelves untouched until 2017.



When the LOTR system came out, I remember seeing it in places like Borders and Barnes and Nobles. I was sure it was a short - term deal that was being used as a hook to get people into the "GW Hobby". I also remember around this time Inquisitor came out, and GW was hyping that very, very hard.

I was very surprised when I recently returned and found LOTR stuff still around, while Inquisitor was relegated to the 'yeah we make that still, order it online if you want it, I guess".


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## eyescrossed (Mar 31, 2011)

Lord of the Rings (SBG) is actually very balanced and fun. I'd say it's easily the most balanced of all the systems.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Yeah, but it doesn't have tanks, flyers, guns, and 15 different codices.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

jaysen said:


> Yeah, but it doesn't have tanks, flyers, guns, and 15 different codices.


and thats a bad thing because?, if you want tanks, flyers and guns play unbalanced 40k


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

It is ballanced until you come across mumaks or ballrogs.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

James Tiberius said:


> and thats a bad thing because?, if you want tanks, flyers and guns play unbalanced 40k


l love seeing that when he has a space wolf as his icon.

down here there was a few people gone after the raise the prices, stop shipping, Finecast, etc, etc.

but most of them came back after they found E bay or other online stores. So overall my main club still has 24 members and the last 40K tony down here had 74 players so its not a bad turn out.

With LotR its dead down here and l mean dead. Not saying its dead in the UK, US or anywhere else but l have never seen any one play or even buy LotR. Seems a bit of a waste.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

sybarite said:


> With LotR its dead down here and l mean dead. Not saying its dead in the UK, US or anywhere else but l have never seen any one play or even buy LotR. Seems a bit of a waste.


over there too? i already was wondering if my Country was the only one, where all interest in LoTr had just died out, now i've got an army of Dwarfs thats just practicly useles.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

Haskanael said:


> It is ballanced until you come across mumaks or ballrogs.


only ever had a problem with them in wotr to be honest, and if I can handle them with a tiny drop of thought trust me anyone can, even a hamster.


sybarite said:


> l love seeing that when he has a space wolf as his icon.


I'm afraid I don't see the connection between rules and a small piece of artwork, perhaps you can enlighten me as to where this connection lies, does the avatar have stats?


Haskanael said:


> now i've got an army of Dwarfs thats just practicly useles.


have you tried asking people to play?, I did that once and got a game, it was quite amazing how asking around gets results


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

James Tiberius said:


> only ever had a problem with them in wotr to be honest, and if I can handle them with a tiny drop of thought trust me anyone can, even a hamster.


Ive tried a lot of Things to kill them Even the GW tactics. the balrog just cointinieus to take the piss out of every unit i have. and the Mumak is about the same. only difference is that i have managed to scare the Mumak away a couple of times in the time i could still find games of LoTr.




James Tiberius said:


> have you tried asking people to play?, I did that once and got a game, it was quite amazing how asking around gets results


Ofc i tried, only a REAL stupid Idiot wouldn't have tried it but the only response I get is comes along the lines of "we all quit" i tried it in different wargaming groups in my region. I dont exactly want to go to another side of my country for a game of LoTr. (the traveling kosts can rise up to 80E by train.)


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Haskanael said:


> over there too? i already was wondering if my Country was the only one, where all interest in LoTr had just died out.


l should rephrase that l have not seen anyone do it in about 6 years. l do remember some people when the movies came out but it died soon after that.



James Tiberius said:


> I'm afraid I don't see the connection between rules and a small piece of artwork, perhaps you can enlighten me as to where this connection lies, does the avatar have stats?


 around 80% of the post l have seen you on, you state a high displeasure of warhammer 40K and fantasy. However your avter is 40K and you only came on this site this month... which is heavy 40K and fantasy. Seems odd to me that's all and makes me giggle inside.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

sybarite said:


> around 80% of the post l have seen you on, you state a high displeasure of warhammer 40K and fantasy.


games workshop, not 40k and fantasy:no:
seriously now this reading problem is getting outta hand


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## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

James Tiberius said:


> games workshop, not 40k and fantasy:no:
> seriously now this reading problem is getting outta hand


this reading thing, THIS READING THING. your love of 40k stopped at 4th edition.


and now to contribute to this thread. 
GW isnt really dying , their shares have been steady for the last 2 years really so i thing there safe.


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

lemage said:


> this reading thing, THIS READING THING. your love of 40k stopped at 4th edition.


once again it happens, its an epidemic
I stopped playing at 4th edition, if I hated it entirely I wouldn't be sitting here painting 10 of my friends kasrkin.
duuuuh


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## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

i'm surprised you didn't lecture him on how good the models made by other company's were, kidnap him and force him to play a game of Lotr with you , then complain about the prices and say the stores were empty. then call him ignorant for disagreeing. 

seriously. quit the trolling , i would have gone to 4chan if i wanted this stuff.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

James Tiberius said:


> once again it happens, its an epidemic
> I stopped playing at 4th edition, if I hated it entirely I wouldn't be sitting here painting 10 of my friends kasrkin.
> duuuuh


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

lemage said:


> seriously. quit the trolling , i would have gone to 4chan if i wanted this stuff.


not to sound ignorant but what is 4chan?


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## James Tiberius (Sep 1, 2011)

lemage said:


> i'm surprised you didn't lecture him on how good the models made by other company's were, kidnap him and force him to play a game of Lotr with you , then complain about the prices and say the stores were empty. then call him ignorant for disagreeing.
> 
> seriously. quit the trolling , i would have gone to 4chan if i wanted this stuff.


so I'm the troll because you people are too lazy to read what I type properly and like to make allot of bullshit up from your "translations" of what I say to get a reaction?

yeah ok then, nice logic you have in your fantasy world


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## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

Haskanael , it's a website full of trolls and genuine sicko's dont go there .

and james , i do hope you realise that this isnt the first time you've been called a troll on the forum ,


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

My appologies this one was a step to far.so removed it.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

James Tiberius said:


> so I'm the troll because you people are too lazy to read what I type properly and like to make allot of bullshit up from your "translations" of what I say to get a reaction?
> 
> yeah ok then, nice logic you have in your fantasy world


Considering its everyone who reads your posts fella, you've surely got to realise that the problem is yours. Either you write them to bait people, or you're not eloquent enough to get your point across correctly, but don't know it.

/buffoon.


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)




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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

The activity in Australia has probably become more... 'privatised'.

But I don't think that the company is entirely dead in Australia.


Also lemage and Haskanael, there's a board on 4chan called /tg/, it's actually pretty good and it's a SFW (safe for work, for those who don't know) board. Meaning no porn or anything like that. I've come across many single page RPG's and amazing models from the board (Mainly from a poster called Scriptarius, he's incredibly good considering that he only uses GW parts). Just avoid aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall of the other boards and you'll be fine.


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## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

Weapon said:


> The activity in Australia has probably become more... 'privatised'.
> 
> But I don't think that the company is entirely dead in Australia.
> 
> ...


i was mostly hinting a /b/ there so i might check that out.

and thanks for getting this back on track


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## eyescrossed (Mar 31, 2011)

Haskanael said:


> Even the GW tactics


...there's your problem.




lemage said:


> Haskanael , it's a website full of trolls and genuine sicko's dont go there


Pfft. You sound like the people who say anonymous is a "group of highly organised hackers and terrorists."

Ignorance at its best.




Weapon said:


> The activity in Australia has probably become more... 'privatised'.
> 
> But I don't think that the company is entirely dead in Australia.


Very true, I went to my local GW last Sunday to pick up some new Ogres and it was packed. If it's like that most of the time in all the stores, it's definitely not dead.




> Also lemage and Haskanael, there's a board on 4chan called /tg/, it's actually pretty good and it's a SFW (safe for work, for those who don't know) board. Meaning no porn or anything like that. I've come across many single page RPG's and amazing models from the board (Mainly from a poster called Scriptarius, he's incredibly good considering that he only uses GW parts). Just avoid aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall of the other boards and you'll be fine.


Pretty good? It's amazing. It's where I... Err... Hypothetically _acquired _some out of date RPG sourcebooks and Black Crusade before it was even released (of course, hypothetically speaking, if I'd somehow gotten them, I would buy the actual books when released).

They're also great inspiration for campaigns and have made me laugh out loud at work more times than I can count. Their "Your party finds a veritable treasure trove of strange and mysterious items aboard a space hulk. What are some things amongst them?" threads are amazingly good.




lemage said:


> i was mostly hinting a /b/


Rules 1 and 2...


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

l do wonder though why the tournaments are becoming less but the most and l do stress most store's that sell GW are doing fine down here.

clubs have also been acting odd with some speaking of moving or going under due to rent cost, but that's a different issue


@James Tiberius: if you really mean that and you are not troll, then l apologise but you really come off as that kind of person who has no love for 40K or WF


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

> Rules 1 and 2...


Inb4 "only applies to raids derp derp"


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

What is all this "herpa derpa" stuff?


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

herpa derpa = herp derp = durr hurr = sounds that imply mental retardation.

It's like implying that whoever you are referring to is mentally retarded.


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## Shanny2 (Feb 17, 2010)

i reakon its not dying but is getting a bit over priced


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

If they just lowered the prices people would more often have that amount of money to buy a box. After they buy the box the odds of them returning it are poor. Since the prices are so high they just dont buy the box at all. The number of sales would go up vastly IMO with lower prices. Most people in the hobby I know only buy the boxes when they have extra cash laying around and its much easier to find an extra $20 than an extra $40.

I would have 3 armys if it was half the price but instead I only struggle to keep 1.


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## Shanny2 (Feb 17, 2010)

yeah and they changed the boxes like IG shock troops they had 20 troops now there are 10


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

It seems as though their line of thought is "we are selling less, we should raise the prices so we keep the same amount of income" But they should say "we are selling less "we should lower the prices and advertise to gain new customers"


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

JelloSea said:


> It seems as though their line of thought is "we are selling less, we should raise the prices so we keep the same amount of income" But they should say "we are selling less "we should lower the prices and advertise to gain new customers"


Quite a few of my mates have expressed interest in the game, and then been scared off by the high cost. Just getting enough to play a game costs an arm and a leg.


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## Shanny2 (Feb 17, 2010)

yeah and they changed the battleforces for IG intead of the battleforce with a Lemen russ u get a sentinal


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

The starting cost of the game should not be $100. Assault on BR should be the price of a video game $60.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

I'm going to assume that the multimillion dollar global corporation knows how to better sell their product than us. Just saying, they have a hell of a lot more invested and a lot more knowledge of the whole situation. I know I wouldn't drop my prices by 40% just hoping to get more business.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

JelloSea said:


> The starting cost of the game should not be $100. Assault on BR should be the price of a video game $60.


In fairness, they could charge a lot more for AoBR and it'd still be a bargain considering all that you get.


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Weapon said:


> In fairness, they could charge a lot more for AoBR and it'd still be a bargain considering all that you get.


Yup this is true. I don't think that was a good example. I mean a hard cover rule book is in the 80-100$ range alone is it not?

I do think some prices are a little extreme but oh well. The idea is that maybe people should not spend every dime on the hobby.. I cant tell you how many times I have heard/seen people empty their pockets for models. (unless her name is Maxine and she is a blond at 5'10 and loves to party and she asks you if its alright if she brings one of her girlfriends a long) There was one time someone actually had the nerve to ask me if I could "spot them 10$ for food" at my local GW. I replied ask the 45$ Marauder box you just bought if any of them can spot you the 10$...

This does not even take into consideration how many people have so much GW stuff in their houses that has yet to be used.

So maybe GW is doing people a favor and helping us all think before we spend. 

Chaosftw


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## KingDeath (Nov 18, 2008)

DeathKlokk said:


> I'm going to assume that the multimillion dollar global corporation knows how to better sell their product than us. Just saying, they have a hell of a lot more invested and a lot more knowledge of the whole situation. I know I wouldn't drop my prices by 40% just hoping to get more business.


They currently know how to generate income, but this income is, at least with the continued losses in the sales department, not sustainable.
GW's prices are high, their system isn't suitable for low point "introduction" games (killteam would have been a perfect way to create such a game/szenario) and even the quality of their very expensive miniatures is at times highly debatable ( finecast ).
While their rules have improved in 5. edition 40k they are still far away from being balanced.
So the only thing they truly have going for them is the 40k universe.
Where other companies seem to bend over just to please their customers GW still seems to think ( despite the fact that they sell less and less every year ) that they have some kind of monopoly.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

KingDeath said:


> GW's prices are high, their system isn't suitable for low point "introduction" games (killteam would have been a perfect way to create such a game/szenario).


I thought that's what the point of the AOBR boxed set is? And the Skull Pass (or new fantasy one with elves and skaven...). They're SUCH good value for money miniature wise, and you get the book and templates too. :wink:



KingDeath said:


> and even the quality of their very expensive miniatures is at times highly debatable ( finecast ).


They had their teething problems with dodgy miscasts and stuff, but that was the initial teething troubles. Sure there may be the odd bendy staff you need to fix, but its the same with metal minis. How many Howling banshees hands had broken off? How many times did I glue Jain Zarr before I binned the model out of frustration. Finecast is ace, doesn't weigh as much and has the same detail as metal, if not crisper.



KingDeath said:


> So the only thing they truly have going for them is the 40k universe.


And fantasy. And the specialist games... Not sure about LotR so cannae comment.



KingDeath said:


> Where other companies seem to bend over just to please their customers GW still seems to think ( despite the fact that they sell less and less every year ) that they have some kind of monopoly.


They kind of do have the big boots on to be honest. Find me another company with equal background, as impressive array of figures, games armies, you name it. You won't find it (Although some of Mantic's armies do make me moist).

Loads of people seem to kick off about them being expensive, and they are, but it's a hobby, like rebuilding cars or horse riding. I can't afford to rebuild cars so I don't do it (also it'd be doubtful I'd get the f*cker working). I'd love for them to be cheaper, but, sadly they aren't. C'est la vie, if people want them they either buy them, or save for them (like I do).

As Chaosftw said 'So maybe GW is doing people a favor and helping us all think before we spend.'. Damn right, I've got bucketloads of stuff I've bought and never used, and probably never will, including battle for skull pass. 

It's not a dying company and it won't be for years to come I'm sure. It just has a higher percentage of whiners in it's followers than say, the knitting community or the cross-stitch community. I've yet to figure out why though... ;-)


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

Sorry guys, but have any of you got access to their financial spreadsheets?

As far as I know, the company made a huge amount of profit last year and while it's less this year, it's still in profit.

The price increase is due to a myraid of factors. From needing designers for making new models, to buying the new finecast machines, to paying for people to make them and paying their global stores workers and everything else that comes with running a buisness.

On the topic of the Aussies, it is general buisness to not sell outside your distrubtion area. For example, if you are in the UK, you should not be selling to other countries, other people in the countries are to do that. However, due to 3rd parties buying GamesWorkshop products, in the UK, then selling to the Southern Hemisphere... Australia and Co were getting the GW products for HALF THE RRP. So for years, GW let this go on....but as they were loosing 50% due to the Pound vs AU Dollar... GW put an end to it. Which is fine, because you are NOT supposed to sell outside your area. No major company does it, if any.

Just be glad you got GW products for half the price for so long. If you were selling products and you were loosing 50% of it........


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## KingDeath (Nov 18, 2008)

Grins1878 said:


> I thought that's what the point of the AOBR boxed set is? And the Skull Pass (or new fantasy one with elves and skaven...). They're SUCH good value for money miniature wise, and you get the book and templates too. :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1.Assault on Black Reach is a nice box set, at least if you happen to play smurfs or orks, but the problem remains that a 40k is inherently unbalanced and flawed when you want to play it at beginner friendly levels while other gamesystems allow for low point matches without penalising specific armies. 

2. Finecast still has problems, just as metal had. My point is that for suposed high value, luxury items 40k miniatures can be of a supprisingly low quality. Even the miniatures themselfs are lacking in some cases. 
Hells they even sell some of the old, realy ugly sculpts (SoB for example ) for the same amount of money they charge for the more modern, actualy good looking ones.

3. You are right about fantasy, i forgot it. The specialist games are barely supported anymore.

4. Just because GW still has some advantages over other companies ( which all lie in the background, other companies can sculpt just/nearly as well ) doesn't mean that they can remain on their high horse forever. 
As the anual reports for the last few years have shown there are more and more customers which simply decide that they do not wish to put up with GW anymore. 

5. The justification "it's a hobby" for unreasonably high prices is a flawed one. GW is in no way "special". Other companies charge less ( either trough cheaper miniatures or at least the ability to play with fewer miniatures ) for the same hobby, often with better rules and thrive. If GW wishes to survive they have to realise that they start to have some very serious competition and act accordingly. Atm i see few signs that they do.


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## lemage (Jul 21, 2011)

Troublehalf said:


> Which is fine, because you are NOT supposed to sell outside your area. No major company does it, if any.


your post explains expendature ,but you forget that GW is a multinational company. and that if the exchange rate was anything to do with the cost , then the us should be taking all the price rises before the australia.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

KingDeath said:


> 1.Assault on Black Reach is a nice box set, at least if you happen to play smurfs or orks, but the problem remains that a 40k is inherently unbalanced and flawed when you want to play it at beginner friendly levels while other gamesystems allow for low point matches without penalising specific armies.
> 
> 2. Finecast still has problems, just as metal had. My point is that for suposed high value, luxury items 40k miniatures can be of a supprisingly low quality. Even the miniatures themselfs are lacking in some cases.
> Hells they even sell some of the old, realy ugly sculpts (SoB for example ) for the same amount of money they charge for the more modern, actualy good looking ones.
> ...


You kind of answered 5 with the second sentence in 2. They're luxury items. I have freinds that spend stupid money on watches, he thinks they should be cheaper. Same with folks who do cars up, I'm sure they want everything to be cheaper, but, alas, it isn't. To be honest though, it's not gone up ridiculously over the past 20 years. I remember seeing 2 terminators for £2.50, but looking at them you'd want to pay a bluey for a plastic one anyday. To be honest, I'm more pissed off at Cadbury's for quadrupling the price of a double decker and making it smaller in the same time scale.

If people aren't not happy with it, don't buy it is the be all and end all. I'm pretty sure GW have their reasons (possibly something dastardly enough to warrant all the hatred people seem to have for them), and I'm pretty sure they'll know what they're doing too.

For 1 (also covering a bit of 5 too), they've always been that way. My first match was with RT rules about 20 years ago, when you bought all your armies stuff seperately and the rules were WAAAAY more complex than now, and I stuck with it, I seriously don't see why people moan about it so much. Start your battle with a list for a basic marine, then buy his armour, equipment, grenades, etc. It used to take well over an hour before you'd even set up. The rules allow for tiny games if people want them, they even have kill-team on the website for anyone to play, I don't see an issue here sorry. I'll agree to disagree. 

I think there's plenty for low cost intro level fights if people want them. But people don't, they want MOAAAAAR! (I know I do :wink: )

2, I don't quite follow, so it's not to do with the actual finecast, it's to do with the overall figures? There's alwasy gaps left for people to convert and do stuff, and so they have future things to build. If you had everything at once there'd be no joy in looking forward to new models, you'd have them, all. As for not updating some models, they will do some day, but if it's not financially viable to do so, they probably won't. Njal, that original figure was from second ed if I recall rightly, same with Ulrik. Some of them are second ed still (like jain zarr and morgan ra and all them), they still work though. 

Anyhow, it's differences of opinion so what the hey, lets have a brew and discuss how sparkly the BA go in daylight (and whether their acronym being a member of the A-Team was a coincidence). k:


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## KingDeath (Nov 18, 2008)

> You kind of answered 5 with the second sentence in 2. They're luxury items. I have freinds that spend stupid money on watches, he thinks they should be cheaper. Same with folks who do cars up, I'm sure they want everything to be cheaper, but, alas, it isn't. To be honest though, it's not gone up ridiculously over the past 20 years. I remember seeing 2 terminators for £2.50, but looking at them you'd want to pay a bluey for a plastic one anyday. To be honest, I'm more pissed off at Cadbury's for quadrupling the price of a double decker and making it smaller in the same time scale.


Even luxury items have to compete with other luxury items which fall in the same category. To blindly accept at times outrageous prices just because we label our miniatures as luxury items ( which is a debatable by itself because "true" luxury items like the mentioned watches and cares can justify at least a part of their price with quality and high production costs, something that GW simply can't ) is foolish. For GW to justify their high cost with that argument, which is slowly making them less competative compared to cheaper products which have the same quality, is suicide.




> For 1 (also covering a bit of 5 too), they've always been that way. My first match was with RT rules about 20 years ago, when you bought all your armies stuff seperately and the rules were WAAAAY more complex than now, and I stuck with it, I seriously don't see why people moan about it so much. Start your battle with a list for a basic marine, then buy his armour, equipment, grenades, etc. It used to take well over an hour before you'd even set up. The rules allow for tiny games if people want them, they even have kill-team on the website for anyone to play, I don't see an issue here sorry. I'll agree to disagree.


It is generaly accepted that 40k starts at 1000/ 1500 points. Below that and some armies run into serious problems. While killteam itself is a start it does nothing to actualy pull in new customers. Compare GW's army boxes for nearly 100€, which often do not allow you to build a legal army ( and more or less cap out at 750 points, well below the amount of points that 40k is designed for ), with their Warmachine equivalents for half the cost. The later not only allow you to start a legal army but the game system itself is well playable at such low point values. This does not mean that the GW boxes have a bad value by themselfs, merely that they are not adequate at introducing new players into the hobby ( because they are overly expensive, often do not allow to create a new army, and the 40k ruleset is not designed with 500-750 points in mind ). 
The Black Reach box was one way to tackle this issue but it is far from being sufficient.


> 2, I don't quite follow, so it's not to do with the actual finecast, it's to do with the overall figures? There's alwasy gaps left for people to convert and do stuff, and so they have future things to build. If you had everything at once there'd be no joy in looking forward to new models, you'd have them, all. As for not updating some models, they will do some day, but if it's not financially viable to do so, they probably won't. Njal, that original figure was from second ed if I recall rightly, same with Ulrik. Some of them are second ed still (like jain zarr and morgan ra and all them), they still work though.


I think we are misunderstanding each other in this part. My issue is not that some miniatures have to be converted ( yes, it is not the best buisness sense not to produce stuff that your customers want but i know that ressources are limited ). My issue is just that GW prices are often not matched by the amount of quality they would demand. We have faulty metal/finecast miniatures. We have downright ugly and outdated miniatures. Yet GW charges a princely price for them. This cannot simply be explained by them being luxury items for all other so called luxury items
are generaly expected to be of a superior quality compared to their more mundane equivalents.



> Anyhow, it's differences of opinion so what the hey, lets have a brew and discuss how sparkly the BA go in daylight (and whether their acronym being a member of the A-Team was a coincidence).


I propose a scientifical experiment to once and for all solve the mystery of the Blood Angels's sparkly effect. As first test group we take about 1000 Blood Angels, which should be a nice amount to make out test statisticaly relevant. We take the same amount of Spacewolfs as control group.
Then we expose both groups to increasing amounts of radiation. If they sparkle then we can find out which radiations affect the sparkling and if the amount of sparkling goes linear with the amount of radiation. Oh, and if they sparkle we can also name them mutants and heretics and deal with them the old fashioned way ( cross reference, inquisitorial archive 08/15, Flame Falcons ).
If they do not sparkle but mutate for some reason then we do the same. 
If they simply die under agonising pain then we thank them for advancing the just cause of imperial science.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Haha, not the wolves, haven't finished painting them yet... Other than that, good plan!:biggrin:


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

KingDeath said:


> Even luxury items have to compete with other luxury items which fall in the same category. To blindly accept at times outrageous prices just because we label our miniatures as luxury items ( which is a debatable by itself because "true" luxury items like the mentioned watches and cares can justify at least a part of their price with quality and high production costs, something that GW simply can't ) is foolish. For GW to justify their high cost with that argument, which is slowly making them less competative compared to cheaper products which have the same quality, is suicide.


A Luxury item is an item that is not needed to survive. Any good that is entirely for a persons entertainment (like hobby goods) is a Luxury good. That aside "quality" is almost impossible to quantify, as the majority of it tends to be based on perception.

Secondly a products prices are based on what the market will bear and the profitability level the producing company wants to maintain. To see a price decrease there would have to be a dramatic decrease in sales to convince GW that their prices are too high.


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

Weapon said:


> In fairness, they could charge a lot more for AoBR and it'd still be a bargain considering all that you get.


Only if you consider the basic $40ish basic box a bargin, which I do not. Sure the arguement that you can get thousands of hours out of what you get is good but I honestly believe the market is 15% of what it could be because the majority of people that would want to play this game will not spend that much money on 10 plastic figures, and still not be able to play.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

JelloSea said:


> Only if you consider the basic $40ish basic box a bargain, which I do not. Sure the argument that you can get thousands of hours out of what you get is good but I honestly believe the market is 15% of what it could be because the majority of people that would want to play this game will not spend that much money on 10 plastic figures, and still not be able to play.



That's the problem here, differences in opinion.

Some consider AoBR a bargain, others consider it a fair price (Or still too expensive, depends on who they are).

I completely agree with you that the market is not as big as it should be. The price is the first thing that dissuades any people that I've tried to get into the hobby from collecting it.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Weapon said:


> I completely agree with you that the market is not as big as it should be. The price is the first thing that dissuades any people that I've tried to get into the hobby from collecting it.


The market is as big as it is, GW isnt a company that overeaches, it understands its market and target market far better than anyone, they have been at it 30 years, price always dissuades people from buying things, its the reason i dont have a Porsche or a small personal jet, making the models cheaper would not necessarily increase sales enough to compensate GW for the drop in revenue, its the old i sell you an apple for a pound and you might buy it or i sell you and your mate an apple each for 50p ,you might buy it because its cheaper but your mate might want an orange in which case i have lost money on the apple.
Besides we live in a world were xboxes and ps3 are very common ,games for those consoles are pricey and short lived, so in comparison i dont think GW's RRP is that far out ,obviously we would want to pay less for everything, but as a hobby for the long term i think its about right,you could pluck out certain models that are ridiculous prices, but AOBR and Island of blood are serious bargains.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Dunno if I agree B&K.

It's not just drawing in more hobbyists with cheaper more 'beginner friendly' prices (like I said before plenty of my mates have shown interest and been scared off by cost), but also getting existing hobbyists to buy more. 

If GW lowed there prices most of us would probably grab a little bit extra each time we buy stuff. I'd probably spend more than I usually would, because I'd lose that douchey feeling I get from spending $65 on a box of 10 guys.

PS: I've spent months of my life locked away in my room playing Oblivion. Best $40 I ever spent.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Dunno if I agree B&K.
> 
> It's not just drawing in more hobbyists with cheaper more 'beginner friendly' prices (like I said before plenty of my mates have shown interest and been scared off by cost), but also getting existing hobbyists to buy more.
> 
> ...


the debate will rage on forever,but rightly or wrongly GW have always been perceived as "expensive" by people not involved in the hobby or coming into the hobby, when i was a youth i could afford a few models a month and larger stuff or big purchases had to be made by either getting a part time job,birthdays or christmas, the difference i suppose now is that people dont settle for one army or two armies and plough money into building armies only to swap them at the drop of a hat.

that said i think GW could do more for its customers in terms of self promotion, loyalty cards with rewards should be a given for the store chain, they have massive competition from online sales but need the stores to be profitable, so it stands to reason they should be doing something to keep shop visitors spending, and these days with the electronic point of sale it should be easy and relatively cheap to do, they could offer a limited edition model like they do for games day or White dwarf(could even be the same one?) if you spend X instore in a given period.


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## Champion Alaric (Feb 17, 2011)

I know Im not first to point this out but a fun price comparison:

Night at movie with wife plus all the goodies she wants ~$40 for two hours of enjoyment.
20 years ago I could go to the movies with a friend for 10 dollars. 

Did I stop goin to the movies or claim the movies are dying? Just cuz something starts costing more doesn't mean its trying to gouge you to stay afloat, it's just the cost of doing business. Disposable income is just that, disposable. If you dont have money to spare don't complain just because something is out of your reach financially. Get a better job or manage your money better. Or better yet do what I did, last christmas I went down to my FLGS and grabbed the models I was interested in and put em in a box for relatives and friends to buy me as my gifts. Its now september and I have painted steady since then and still have 2 boxes of stuff to paint. Think of the solution not the problem. Shit aint gonna get cheaper cuz you whine about it.

As for the aussies..their situation blows and I cant even try to defend their price increases.


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## Corporal Chaos (Nov 27, 2007)

Alexious in post # 5. + REP and I believe a lot if not all applies on a global scale.
I am just saying...... :so_happy:


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## ThoseKrazyKasrkin (Aug 2, 2011)

Yay us...

BUT that said about aus, everything here is more expensive generally but from what i understand the average wage here is better than most so it sorta evens out. Add the retarded import tax.....

Not defending them and its still expensive but at a local games store if i spend 120 i get 20% off so i go less and get more. That 20% makes it almost as cheap to get here as from say, england (like 20 dollars difference over 400)

But from the english gw i paid 70 p&h and was still 50 cheaper tham free delivery from aus!


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