# Those damn Blood Angels....



## Miester_Zef (Jul 20, 2014)

There is this player i sometimes play. He runs an all drop pod list filled with stern guard and honor guard. With storm ravens bringing more troops and/or dreads. No matter the game his goal is to table the opponent. He ignores all objectives and persues the kill. I run IG, space wolves, and CSMs. I cannot seem to when against him. No matter what i try. Also he is the kind of player that no matter what units you have 'they arnt as good as his army' 

Any advice? My dignity needs the win.


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## Code: Crimson (May 20, 2014)

He's running a classic gimmick strategy, and the the trick is to make it hard to table you. Basically, run tons of durable units and vehicles (Storm Ravens and Land Raiders) and fill them with super tough units (Plague Marines, maybe Termies?).

Also, when they leave the Drop Pods, his units will all be in one place, meaning you can severely punish him with a proper counter-attack. Take units that can output serious damage on clustered enemies (Obliterators, Defilers), and also plentiful anti-MEQ (Plasma Units and AP 3 templates). 

Another thing to keep in mind is that even though his Drop Pods won't scatter, you can still present him with situations where he can't place a unit close enough to kill his target. An example would be baiting him with something expensive and powerful or to create a very strong formation where he can't show up behind you. Hordes will have an easier time of this, but making clever use of walls will save you. Also, since they still are arriving from Reserves, messing with them can be a nice route to take (Comms Relay).

I'm not sure what you meant by that last sentence though; he's a player who emphasizes army synergy over unit strength? Because that's what any good army list should be focusing on anyway, so I don't see his point.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

As much as it pains me....I will help you overcome his army. What are the lists you've been running? I play BA against CSM a lot and know that match up well, and also play as IG so I might be able to find some soft spots if you care to share.


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## Miester_Zef (Jul 20, 2014)

My IG i mostly run vet sqadswith chimeras. I dont do gun lines most of the time. Mostly i run melta and plasme vets led by a lord commissar. With leman russ' im tempted to start putting the into reserve to protect them.

I run mostly a version of this (first list) minus the deathstrike. http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/army.php?do=viewarmy&army_id=1130

As for as the CSM i run noise marines, lord on steed of slaanesh. Preds with vindies, standard csm and the occassional sorceror.

His first match with me he used vanguards (which got eaten by my Slaanesh marked csms w/ extra ccw) since then he only drops sternguard combat squads. They come in split up and mow everything down in sight.


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## Miester_Zef (Jul 20, 2014)

Code: Crimson said:


> I'm not sure what you meant by that last sentence though; he's a player who emphasizes army synergy over unit strength? Because that's what any good army list should be focusing on anyway, so I don't see his point.


Mostly its his attitude that bugs me no matters how hard i try he has 'that guy' smirk on his face. Sounds petty now that i type it out though. He always has a negative thing tyo say about my army or units.


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## maximus2467 (Jun 14, 2007)

I know the type, I play a Waac player regularly, if he beats me it's because "his army is amazing, my army is crap, his generalship was awesome and my tactics poor" and when he does lose it's 'not his fault he had poor dice rolls' and I was "lucky" and the next time we meet, his army will be geared up specifically to deal with the units in my army that caused him snags the previous time rather than working on a well rounded list, then he complains when in the next game our other friend (there are three of us who meet up at ww once a month or so) annihilates his army that's geared up to take on me specifically. He really does get a bee in his bonnet when he loses lol


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

I like what you're doing with that Guard list, but I can see why your buddy it having a time against it with Sternguard in Drop Pods. How many Pods does he use? I throw two T1 against my CSM buddy, one a 10 man Assault squad with Meltas and one a Fragioso, and he scrambles for a turn but ultimately smacks them down. The key is in deployment when it comes to facing a heavy T1 presence. I play Deathwing, Drop Pods, (now) Grey Knights- anything that lets me come in across the table T1, and they way my buddy deals with it is by bubble wrapping strong counter-attack units with multiple juicy targets that have less ultimate worth to him long term but are still valuable players. Makes me really choose with my Meltas whether to snag a sure First Blood on a Rhino or try for the one clear/one cover shot I have on the front armour of his Vindicator. Don't put any of your tanks in Reserve, they're then useless for at least one turn. Use your troops to garner cover for them and force tough decisions that have decently tempting results for your enemy but still give you the advantage.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Or just add Cortez to your list.


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## Miester_Zef (Jul 20, 2014)

scscofield said:


> Or just add Cortez to your list.


I may sound stupid here but who is cortez?


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## Miester_Zef (Jul 20, 2014)

ntaw said:


> I like what you're doing with that Guard list, but I can see why your buddy it having a time against it with Sternguard in Drop Pods. How many Pods does he use? I throw two T1 against my CSM buddy, one a 10 man Assault squad with Meltas and one a Fragioso, and he scrambles for a turn but ultimately smacks them down. The key is in deployment when it comes to facing a heavy T1 presence. I play Deathwing, Drop Pods, (now) Grey Knights- anything that lets me come in across the table T1, and they way my buddy deals with it is by bubble wrapping strong counter-attack units with multiple juicy targets that have less ultimate worth to him long term but are still valuable players. Makes me really choose with my Meltas whether to snag a sure First Blood on a Rhino or try for the one clear/one cover shot I have on the front armour of his Vindicator. Don't put any of your tanks in Reserve, they're then useless for at least one turn. Use your troops to garner cover for them and force tough decisions that have decently tempting results for your enemy but still give you the advantage.


So i should put in a deathstrike for example. He either has to go for it or risk having it launch. And unlike him (who doesnt risk his pods any closer than 12 inches to the edge) i love the drift dice and they love me. He drops about 5-6 pods


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

Miester_Zef said:


> I may sound stupid here but who is cortez?


Inquisitor Coteaz is a special character in Codex:Inquisition that has a special rule allowing him (and his unit) to shoot at a deepstriking enemy unit within 12"; he can do this infinite times each turn. Throw him in with a melta squad etc. and deploy him well and he will eat up your opponent as he tries to bear dowon on you. The inquisition detachment is 1-2 HQ (inquisitors) and 0-3 Elites (henchmen squads), so you could just take him if you wanted.


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## Miester_Zef (Jul 20, 2014)

i like that idea as well. Will have to make a cool model for him.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

He actually has a model if you want


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## Miester_Zef (Jul 20, 2014)

and deny my traitor guard a radical inquistor of their own?! Perish the thought.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Lol k, he is in power armor if you have a spare sm


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## Miester_Zef (Jul 20, 2014)

Thats awesome!!

You guys have been a great help thank you!


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Yep, np. Cortez is I personally think the best add on choice that the Inq. Dex has to offer. PA, ML1 Pskyer, the deep strike deterrant and a skew of other options for dirt cheap.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

ML2 psyker. Great choice!


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

That's right, he is ml2


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Or Tau. You want Interceptr, they be your bastards. Riptides lurve them so grouped tacticals, and putting a drop pod in range or his blast is going to see them go bye bye.

Or, ally with Horus Heresy Legions where you can field squads of Space Marines with Interceptor. Alternatively, pick up an Admech force.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Good options too, only reason I suggested Cortez is. E cause of how cheap adding him would be.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Miester_Zef said:


> So i should put in a deathstrike for example. He either has to go for it or risk having it launch.


That's the idea, though I personally don't like the Deathstrike very much.



Miester_Zef said:


> And unlike him (who doesnt risk his pods any closer than 12 inches to the edge) i love the drift dice and they love me. He drops about 5-6 pods


I do my T1 DS lists in conjunction with Inquisitors and Servo Skulls, when you only scatter D6" and have Inertial Dampeners you can be pretty ballsy with placement. Since he hasn't figured that out, use it to your advantage and put squishy units in areas you know he won't try to DS, and bubble wrap them in stuff that you don't mind dying or will at least give the squishy stuff a cover save.



scscofield said:


> Good options too, only reason I suggested Cortez is. E cause of how cheap adding him would be.


100 points is a damn steal for this level of character. Though it's definitely Coteaz :wink:


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## Miester_Zef (Jul 20, 2014)

Im already eying my brothers grey knights bits to build coteaz. Muahaha!!


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## Miester_Zef (Jul 20, 2014)

Ok i got my coteaz, and i am planning on sticking him with a 40 man guard blob. if i stick them behind a ADL and have coteaz man the quadgun(or icarus if better) does the quad gun get to fire at each deepstrike as well?


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

With the change to the Vehicle Damage Chart I would take the Icarus, it's also the less expensive option. It has Interceptor, so it gets to fire at things coming in from Reserve without Coteaz even being there. What you should do is load up some Heavy Weapons Teams in the blob you're putting him in and capitalize on Prescience and I've Been Expecting You. Don't forget Flamers for Overwatch. Personally I play a 30 man blob with Autocannons, and instead of ripping an ADL (which I find makes play a bit too static for me) I match the squad with Azrael of the Dark Angels for a 4+ Invulnerable save and take a couple squads of Deathwing because I love Terminators.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

With the change to Interceptor/Skyfire, it's better against flying vehicles only. The Quad Gun is better versus FMC's, but still won't kill one. I'm not sold on it against flyers either. It's got a greater chance to penetrate, but it's still only a 1/6 chance - the Quad Gun at least has a chance of hull point stripping.

If you're needing antiair though - get yourself some of your own flyers, either allied in or otherwise, or take some Tau allies.


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## mayegelt (Mar 18, 2014)

Trouble is you cant take out the Drop Pods before they land, so killing everyone inside. This is because Interceptor happens at the end of the enemy movement phase. Also Inceptor can only fire at 1 target.
However as kinda said above. You want lots of Pieplates. Things like Vindicators / Soul Grinder / Leman Russ to eat his deepstrikers. 
Otherwise things like small squads of Chosen CSM with Plasmas can work well as he cant charge on landing in Drop Pods, so you have a free turn of rapid firing marine killers in to him.
Otherwise you could go for something like a army with a load of Maulerfiends and stuff. They will rip open anything he has, but also are very hard to kill as walkers.
Also as said above things like Nurgle Terminators or Plague Marines are great for slowing people down as it will take a lot more to wound them and they will likely still have a Feel No Pain save.

Something else you could try is take Typhus or Necrosius and have loads of Plague Zombies. As they are still only 4pts each and are fearless they will happily hold his units up for the entire game. His squads I would assume if he is trying to table you will likely have a load of power weapons or whatever if he knows he is against CSM. And that means it will be probably 200-300pts a squad of 10 + the drop pod and stuff. You can have 35 fearless zombies for 150pts. This will take that 10man squad even with 100% Hits / Wounds & failing your FNP saves at least a turn or 2 I think to kill 1 squad.
Also remember that Helcults are nice if you have the dataslate for them. And you can if you have 1 of the 2 characters listed above have Zombie Cultists as the units with the Brute.


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## the_barwn (Jul 23, 2011)

I guess if you wanted to outcheese him, some Eldar Allies

1 farseer or 1 autaurch on a jet bike (please use the special rule to make reserves -1 for your opponant)

2 units of either Fire Dragons in wave serpants or 2 units of warp spiders

hmm maybe even a unit of swooping hawks for the nice pie plate lols
but my favourite against those juicy drop pods would be a unit of d-cannon support weapons with a guardian blob around it & :laugh: lots when the d-cannons eat everything


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Miester_Zef said:


> and deny my traitor guard a radical inquistor of their own?! Perish the thought.


Now _that's_ the kind of attitude I like to see!

With Guard, I'd probably bring an Officer of the Fleet in with my CCS to choke his reserves. I'd probably also bring my Vendetta and 2 Hydras, holding the Hydras in Reserve (since they don't have Interceptor, so can just be shot off the board by arriving flyers/Drop Podding Sternguard with combi-meltas). Coteaz also certainly seems like a good bet.

For CSM? Hmm. I like the Typhus+hordes of Plague Zombies (probably just using traitor guard minis as zombies!) idea. It's hard to get solid AA as CSM, but a Heldrake with HAC might do it--especially alongside a Crimson Slaughter sorc with Balestar, Presciencing the 'Drake.


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