# Surviving Autocannons



## aireoth (Jan 24, 2011)

Ok, so I've retooled my old eldar Ilyanden list, dropping the aptly renamed Failguard and Faillord, in favor of a less fluffy army of Dire Avengers, Waves, Farseer(s), prisms and a falcon, plus one or two elites depending on my mood.

The new problem is this, my friend, being the jerk that he is, decided to try and build an IG army which seems specifically designed to maim, rend and slaughter me. He claims its just his tournament list, but I don't believe him.

The number of autocannons he fields is disgusting, within one turn half my army was in wreckage with units hiding behind the hulks, by the end of turn two, I had nothing left on the field for vehicles. His dice rolls where mathematically correct (missing 50-60% of the time), but the shear number of shots just did me in.

This is a 2000pt battle, and with the firepower he has, I don't see how any eldar list will have a hope. Help would be appreciated!


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Heavy 2 S7 against Armour 12 binning Eldar Tanks? Really? Depends how many you have. Also - might be worth tailoring a list to take Twin Autarchs to Alpha Strike, and reduce the length of time his Autocannons can fire.


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## aireoth (Jan 24, 2011)

Yes, it was sad, first down was my serpents (lower armor) second turn he focused on my tanks. I managed to go first, but one prism completely missed, the other was only so so when it hit, falcon did ok, it actually lasted to the third turn because I hid it behind a wreck, then the bombardment rolled lucky and landed right on it. He had 24 auto canons on the field, plus a tank and a few lascannons, not sure if the list was legit as I don't play IG and have yet to read their codex.

: Falcon, 2 prism, 5 WS, 2 vypers : 

Turn one: Farseers add reroll to prisms, one misses anyway, second hits killing half a squad. Bright lances glance the Tank. Scatter lasers and star cannons pick off a few infantry, all wave serpents move up.

IG Turn One: 48 shots divided on the WS, all of them go down, most of the squads survive (only 5 man teams though, and still out of range), tank destroys one prism's main gun, lascannons rock the falcon but don't do anything to serious (small weapon destroyed), bombard goes off map.

Turn Two: Same as one, kill a few more infantry, hide the falcon, vypers hop up in the wrecks, shooting infantry, my troops move out.

IG turn Two: Auto's open up on vypers and my squads, most die. tank starts hitting troops, lascanons tank out both prisms. Turn 3 Bombardment gets the falcon. At this time I surrendered, as I didn't have much left to fight with.


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## msteward (Jan 5, 2011)

I'm assuming he's running autocannon teams and not autocannon tanks, so if he is runnin mech autocannons, just disregard this.

My advice to you knowing that hes going to be running auto cannons at you would be to prep for that during terrain generaltion. Put as many things on the board as possible and use Line of Sight to your advantage. If you guys deploy your enitre army during deployment. I'd volunteer to go second. Playing Defense seems like a good option for you at this point. IIRC, most eldar vehicles are fast skimmers so if you force his autocannon teams to have to move in order to see you. you'll be able to re-act and get away before his troops have a chance to settle in an unload on you.

I ran a similar tactic against a fellow I.G player. I planned my list expecting a full mech list and got 9 lascannon teams and no vehicles. I was able to force an easy tie.

Hope this helps you out


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## aireoth (Jan 24, 2011)

He doesn't, all infantry (other then the one Russ). It has still instilled the fear of the AC in me, though I think AC's are more deadly to Eldar vehicles then the lascannons in IG, the high number of shots makes up for the low BS, and even glances can be deadly.

I rematch this weekend, any further suggestions?


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## msteward (Jan 5, 2011)

If hes going to keep running all infantry, then your best option would be to rig up some squads of dire avengers and cram them into wave serpents (which i believe are fast skimmers). Hold off on advancing them. Patience here will go along way here. Try and force him to move his autocannons if he wants to get a clear shot at you. once they've moved within 36 inches, run those fast skimmers up 17 or so", deploy your dire avengers at 18" or less, and unload on him with your Avenger Shurinken Catapaults.

With BS4, you'll be hitting on 3+. With S4 on the catapaults against T3 of guardsmen, you'll be wounding on 3+. and the AP5 of the Shuriken Catapaults is going to punch right through their armor. Not to mention if you make him move close enough, you can top it off with some of the weapons from the wave serpent as well

The biggest thing here is LoS and patience. Autocannons cant hit what they cant see and cant shoot after moving. I play Chaos marines myself so i'm not greatly familiar with fast skimmers so you may have to adjust some numbers to get it done but hes going to run autocannons teams, the best thing you can do is make him move.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I think you were unlucky to lose all 5 Wave Serpents turn 1, he should notionally only get 4-5 Pens and 4-5 Glances in total out of 48 Auto Cannons shots against AV12 (i'm assuming you didn't reserve towards him). 

Use cover as best you can and get right up in his face as quickly as possible. They're just Guardsmen and if you have something decent in your serpents you'll be able to move-shoot-assault out of the wrecks of your Serpents.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

How much terrain were you using?

Having your Farseer Fortune the front vehicle will make it survive much longer.

Bladestorm Avengers and Scorpions are your friends vs IG manspam.

If there is a lot of terrain, choose to go second (if you can) so you can see his fire lanes and avoid them. If there is very little terrain, choose to go first so that you can get Fortune and turbo-boosting cover saves.

You could also try outflanking War Walkers with Shuricannons or Scatters if you have a spare HS slot and the models for it.


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## Toten (Dec 26, 2008)

Outgun him?
A friend of mine (Tossidin) had a eldar list at 1750 iirc, that fired like 60-72 shuriken cannon shots a round, it devastates most foot armies.


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## aireoth (Jan 24, 2011)

Mostly a forest map with few hills, LOS was admittedly pretty open, so I jetted towards him to cover ground and fire. My high move caused most of the damage, as my vehicles wrecked on glances. Rematch is on Sunday, but I have been doing my research (as I posted in the power gaming thread) and have brushed up on all the IG rules and play styles. I did a few tweaks to the army, most notably added a group of walkers to outflank and Eldrad for the rerolls on the heavy support. Farseer will fly near the front to add survivability (I hope) and popped in holo's on every serpent. Downsized the DA squads to 5 in order to fit all this in. 

My last note is I will be fully reading the new BRB, so their will be no overlap of old rules (not sure if there was, but to make sure), so I'm looking forward to the power of the mech army.

All in all, I think even on the same map, I will have a better chance, at least even. Still the dice god are rather similar to this emote :russianroulette:!


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

I play IG and Eldar and can tell you that those autcannons won't do anything in asault  so what you gotta do, like earlier said is stay behind cover and wait.

When he gets close enough just zoom out from behind cover, fleet, and assault with your Avengers, or bladestorm then assault.

You could mass shuriken cannon on the Serpents too!


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## Trickstick (Mar 26, 2008)

Is he using his ACs in ten man squads or dedicated heavy weapon teams? I'm guessing a mix of both. If that is the case throw some shuriken cannons and scatter lasers at the dedicated heavy squads. I'm a guard player not an eldar so I don't know if you have these weapons, but my heavy teams hate str6 fire due to instant death. If you could position yourself so that only your target can see you you could take the squad out with just 3 shots.

I'm not suprised that people go mass ac, it is about the best weapon in the codex but it does have drawbacks, mainly the ap value. Just be careful when charging in, if you don't commit enough to one area it can be very easy to be overwhelmed by sheer numbers. Or my favourite tactic: let one squad die so your entire army can shoot up the victors.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

aireoth said:


> and popped in holo's on every serpent.


Wave Serpents can't take holo fields... sorry to burst your bubble.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I would try to torbo boost at the first opportunity towards his lines. If you know you are going second the hide behind as much terrain as possible. Also if you are getting wrecked because you turbo boosted then buy the vectored engines upgrade. Now instead of of being wrecked upon immobilization you just sit there. Now run the troops out once in assault the guardsmen will die since they also have tissue paper armour like you but are slower.

Try outflanking scorps in a wave serpent to act as a big distraction.


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## aireoth (Jan 24, 2011)

I dropped the holo's on the WS anyway (free up points) glad I did as its an illegal build!

Game went better then the last, the Autocannons where still pretty damn deadly, but I decided to deep strike a group of Warp Spiders, as I love the models. Got them in behind his lines, decimated the one squad that could see them, and did a few jump in fire and jump out runs. He managed to kill them off after two turns, but it gave me time to use my tanks effectively. In the end I won, but only by a few points.


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## msteward (Jan 5, 2011)

hey win is a win. anything that wounds on a two is going to be deadly no matter what. How was the terrain and cover and did it work to your advantage?


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Autocannons are just plain good in general. They're one of the best weapons available for keeping vehicles suppressed. Yes, Eldar's reliance on a bunch of av12 cars makes them particularly vulnerable, but fielding a bunch of them with guard is just plain sensible.

Boost often, and make sure the terrain is not frakked. Put your waveserpents on low flying bases and your prisms on tall ones, and shoot over them while getting a cover save. Fortune the vehicles you care about.


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

Keep in mind that moving flat ou in a wave serpent gives you a 3+ cover save against shooting attacks  although if you use this tactic, you'll probably want to take vectored engines to prevent the embarked unit from being destroyed in the event you fail the save and he immobilizes the Wave Serpent.

As already mentioned, Striking Scorpions and Dire Avenegers will make short work of IG infantry blobs. To give you an idea, shot a guided Avener squad at a doomed ork squad of 30, and killed about 20 of them. Also, Nightspinners might be worth using against him as well


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Er, don't take vectored engines. Go reread the BRB where they spell out that "turns" means "player turns". 

First and foremost, don't ever tailor lists. Secondly, Mechdar can deal with ACs and hordes without taking mostly bad units. S6 spam will deal with things just fine, as will the large templates on Prisms. Eldar don't really handle assaults too well. We don't have assault transports, nothing is truly awesome in CC, and Seer Councils, while really cool, cost an arm and a leg. They're heavy flamer delivery systems that happen to nail anything that isn't any good at tarpitting. Come to think of it, though, that just might deal with blobs. Granted, 30 s3 attacks a turn will still do a number of t4 3+ rerollable saves, but still, five heavy flamer hits and a charge would likely tie a blob up until they managed to blessedly fail a moral check, hopefully on their turn.


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## Jack Mac (Apr 29, 2009)

...also, 4+ cover save for moving a serp or other eldar tank flat out. Jetbikes get the 3+


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Indeed, although with the right cover you're looking at a 3+ save due to the firing arc being targeted not being in LOS, but that takes some rather careful positioning and only really works if you agree with your opponent that the "wings" of the standard Eldar AV12 hull count as being a part of the body.


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