# Vindicators: Good or Bad?



## Mr.Juggernaught (Nov 16, 2010)

Hey I am starting a Khorne army that will be featuring allot of vindicators and I was wandering whether they are a good investment on the battle field as they aren't a good investment financially if they are going to fail epically and have to be removed from my list. To me they seem like a good idea being able to throw a large blast strength 10 ap 2 template around each turn and 125 points a tank seems like they would be able to earn their points back easily. This was what was my initial reasons to add three to my army but I have heard that they are not useful on the battle field made me question whether or not to field three of them. I have not yet purchased any vindicators nor do I have any experience with them. I am fielding three or none as there is only two good options for heavy support in a chaos list is vindicators or obliterators and I dont think 7 obliterators is a good trade off for 3 vindicators. Please tell me whether they are a good investment and about any tactics you may have with vindicators.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Im struggling to see the synergy with a khorne list and vindis

Vindies generally do best when your either playing in highly dense terrain or the enemy has to come to you, with bereskers you'll be getting to the enemy just as the pie plates start landing khorne may not care from where the blood flows but i guess you do

You'll likley get 1 turn of decent shooting with them 

I hate to say it but IMO oblits are probably better


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## DrinCalhar (Jul 10, 2010)

Oblits are better about 90% of the time. Don't get me wrong Vindis are fun but just not for higher levels of play. If you are not sold on Oblits just read my article on them above my sig.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Vindicators are good, but really excel in a Dual-Lash list.

The biggest problem with running them in a Khorne list is that you will be wanting to rush your Berzerkers into the enemy as fast as possible, which means that they could find themselves blown apart by friendly fire with an unlucky scatter roll.

If you do decide to use Vindicators, i would HIGHLY advise you take Daemonic Possession with them.
It is an expensive upgrade in points, but it is well worth every last point.

I ran 3 Vindicators in my Chaos army before i sold them, and they caused absolute chaos for the enemy as they rained death on everything, but then again i was using it with Dual-Lash (group hugs help a lot).


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I'd roll with Defilers. I really like Defilers as they have good anti-MEq firepower with the Battlecannon, with an Autocannon for opening up Transports, exposing the occupants to a Berzerker/Defiler charge, and a Heavy Flamer for dug-in infantry. Fairly good in combat as you'll be using it to attack weakened units, rather than full-on assault squads. They also fit the Khorne theme.

Midnight


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## Dakingofchaos (Sep 29, 2009)

Barnster said:


> Im struggling to see the synergy with a khorne list and vindis
> 
> Vindies generally do best when your either playing in highly dense terrain or the enemy has to come to you, with bereskers you'll be getting to the enemy just as the pie plates start landing khorne may not care from where the blood flows but i guess you do
> 
> ...


whislt khornate commanders may be very stubborn im sure even they can see the practicality in having a bunker busting cannon or three with them :laugh:


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I prefer 3 preds with lascannon sponsons. More anti tank shots as the bezerkers are capable of taking down infantry already. Plus more guns to rip off before it becomes useless.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Defilers are generally better for chaos player, but they lack the situational strength of vindicators (Anti monolith/terminator fire).


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

as stated before vindis just for some reason dont mesh well with Khorne, now maybe there are exceptions IG gunline, & nids that come to mind.

id go with defilers, very khornate - but not very durable, since they are mainly a giant dreadnought.

as a slightly different route 3 dreadnoughts with MLs & HFs are a cheap way to go.


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## Mr.Juggernaught (Nov 16, 2010)

yeah i am thinking of picking off elite groups that exell in close combat and just having my beserkers picking off heavy support and tactical marines.


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## lokis222 (Mar 14, 2009)

Fallen said:


> as stated before vindis just for some reason dont mesh well with Khorne, now maybe there are exceptions IG gunline, & nids that come to mind.
> 
> id go with defilers, very khornate - but not very durable, since they are mainly a giant dreadnought.
> 
> as a slightly different route 3 dreadnoughts with MLs & HFs are a cheap way to go.


I wouldn't count on them being great against Tyranids anymore. I ran into a chaos space marine list the other day with two vindicators. They never got into firing range between my tyrrannofex and MC venom cannons.


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## DeathsShadow (Oct 12, 2010)

since vindis are best when equiped with DP you may aswell go two defilers (extra cc arms) and a unit of 2 oblits (for only +15 pts than 3 vindis with DP). oblits can pop transports and tanks making the troops inside targets for battlecannon fire and oblits can also drop plasma cannon fire on termies. defilers can battlecannon from turn 1 and when your zerks get into the fight the defilers can then assist alot better than vindis can. the down side to this is a defiler is huge and not so resiliant so take them in pairs


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## WarAngel (Jan 3, 2011)

It all depends on what army you're against. I have used vindicators many times, but only against Space marines, chaos and Imperial guard. They seem to do a lot of damage against all 3 armies, but I'm not sure how it would do against other armies.


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

*posting from work. Please shoot me and put me out of my misery*

I'm a crap player but even I would chime in the side of Obliterators; the sheer applied usefulness of being to choose the perfect weapon for your chosen target (so far I've had the best results from plasma cannons and lascannons) is just to good to go without. 

It's like a Swiss army knife of death...


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## msteward (Jan 5, 2011)

I recently got a Vindi and I've had mixed results with it thus far. I had my best luck against space marines playing 1K Sons or Noise Marines. I imagine Plague Marines would be effective with vindicators as well.

With oblits, I've had mixed results, they tend to survive the longest when put them in the back and use them as a lascannon/plasma cannon platform but I feel I'm under-utilizing them in that manner. I've seen them deep struck which makes better use of their variety of weapons but you always run the risk of not getting them in on time, mishapping, or getting them in a precarious position and getting ahnialated in the next shooting phase. 

Often with chaos, It really depends on the army you're playing against and the tactics your opponent tends to use.


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## Edges (Aug 26, 2010)

I would cast my vote with Defilers backed by Oblits. Defilers just scream Khorne (Literally, I imagine them screaming the word in battle) and while they have a lower AV than a vindi, they can remain useful after weapon destroyed results and come with DP for free. Depending on your opponent, the oblits could act as a stopgap in your battle plan, deploying on the table or via deep strike depending on what you anticipate as threatening in the enemy list. 
On a slightly related note: I've always wanted to see what 3 dreads and 3 defilers would be like in a chaos list.... probably just really messy.


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## m3628800 (Sep 3, 2010)

Just purchased a pair of Chaos Vindicators, will be running them with Daemonic Possession for fun and to see how they roll. Also have a squad of Obliterators, have seen great things from them. Thinking about running all, and seeing what gets me kills where.


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## Tossidin (Dec 10, 2008)

Bad
Sorry, I wish they were good but they aren't 

Here is a thread from the SM tactica where I (from page 2 and on) try to show exactly why if you are interested: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70678


gogo oblits!


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Personly Oblits are awsome but have there down falls. There EXPENSIVE as all hell. 3 Oblits are good but cost 225 Pts. Vidi with Daemonic Possession 145 Pts. 80 Pts diferrence. So you got 3 Termies with a T 4 and a mere 5+ inv. Do u know how easy it is for them to get ML, or Plasmad, or Melta, or PFsted, or Thunder Hammered, or MC in CC, or Demolishere in the face, or WHTEVER kills 2+ saves, to death. 

They get eaten and killed as easy as a Vindi for more points. Yes you get a choice to kill Hordes, Termies, or vehicles, but they die easy for their PTs. 

Now a cheaper DP Vindi has 13 AV in front, Siege Shield, cannot be Shaken or Stun, and a HUGE pie plate of instant death to almost everything. 24" is not great, thats a downfall. If the Cannon is taken out or Immoblise is not good either. If Immobilise then Lash is still useful to have u kill shit. If cannons gone then u have two options. 1) U can use that AV 13 as a Ram or make a wall to cover your flanks. 2) U can still contest objectives with it like I have and win! Still usefull. 

So Oblits are awsome and superior if u keep them out of CC and in Cover. However the Vindi has a better chance of killing really tough threats (Str 10 AP 2 Ordance is a bitch) and still super hard to take down from the Front with its AV13. All for cheaper. Even 2 Oblits cost 5 pts more. 

So its situational... for you I take Defilers. The Battle Cannon is good for range till u get up close and then CC with the rtest of ur army. The Oblits are ur second best bet for Anti Vehilces, that Huge Pie Plate of the Vindi may kill ur guys more than theirs. Vindis are better in Lash List too.


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm sorry? But the Vindicator does not have a better chance of killing really tough threats. Looking at 2 Oblits for 1 DP vindi (roughly the same, 5 points seperating the two) the obliterators would have the better chance of killing tough threats. Hordes? Twin linked flamers. MC's? Twin linked plasma for 4 wounds instead of a measly 1. The only thing the Vindicator does better is insta-kill Grotesques and Thunderwolf cavalry. And you don't see a lot of those.

And Obliterators are not as easy to kill than a Vindicator. Side 11, which is not hard to get at in a properly balanced list. Even Orks with a good list has a good chance to remove the vindicator from play early. (First turn Deffkopta assaults, buggies on the side.) Yes, they can be insta-killed but considering that they get cover and 2+ vs lascannons and missiles, that's still a substantial amount that has to be poured in, you can't get a single lucky shot to kill the entire unit. 

I'd rather take a predator over the Vindicator, if oblits are to not be taken. Everything you say is good for the vindicator, the predator does better. 
I would even go as far as to say that for the means of popping tanks at range, I would rather take a Predator over Obliterators. Autolas have more shots than 3 obliterators, for the price of less than 2 Obliterators. 

And stop using Lash, people. It's way to easily taken out of play, and rendered ineffective to actually do anything any more. 4 T5 wounds is a piece of cake for most armies. It renders the vindicator even more useless, stop using it as an argument for why it is good. The synergy doesn't work when it gets disrupted so easily, and you still have to get infantry out of their transports.

Do people forget that we have Predators or something?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Cruor99 said:


> I'm sorry? But the Vindicator does not have a better chance of killing really tough threats. Looking at 2 Oblits for 1 DP vindi (roughly the same, 5 points seperating the two) the obliterators would have the better chance of killing tough threats. Hordes? Twin linked flamers. MC's? Twin linked plasma for 4 wounds instead of a measly 1. The only thing the Vindicator does better is insta-kill Grotesques and Thunderwolf cavalry. And you don't see a lot of those.
> 
> yes those are all great but again your letting 150 pts of 4 wound termies getting Killed by Hordes if u use the Flamers, seen it too many times before with Horde Armies, and IG gunline dont get that close to first Rank Fire second Rank Fire. As for MC killer that TL PG is great. But again I lost 2 Oblits ez to GDs and DPs and Storm Shield Honor Guard that shrug that off. So yes the Vindi does Great with Lash List that let you bunch up IG gun lines, NOB Bikers, Thunder Wolf Calvary, Grotesques, Wraithguard Formations, Nid Warriors, or Termie Squads better with a single huge pie plate and single scatter roll, vs the 2 rolls to see if your PC overheats and then 2 Scatter Rolls with a small plate. For wiping out Squads of nasties the 5 pt cheaper Vindi with AV13 in the front is better suited IMO.
> 
> ...


Its all a matter of the general and his play style and what army he goes up against. The Game is all about roll of the dice.


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