# Why no love for the SMurfs?



## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been observing the 40k community for a long time, and I've noticed that love for the Ultramarines is pretty hard to come by. This boggles my mind! Of all the factions in the grim and dark universe of the 40st millenium, the SMurfs are the only one that comes close to being the "good guys" (the Tau are _not_ good guys in any stretch of the word).

I'm interested to know what yall think about this. Is it their plainness? Perhaps their perceived non-badassness? After all, Evil Is Cool and Good Is Boring :scare:. I personally have nuttin' but love for the Ultramarines, especially after reading the Omnibus.

But I digress; I really want to know what yall think about this.


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## officer kerky (Jun 12, 2008)

i find that they are just too goody too shoes praise the emperor for he is so great etc. it's their praying and being to good that anoys me. and also that every body collects BLOODY space marines. 

dont get me wrong i do collect space marines it is just they are so holy and pure that gets me.


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Here


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

bah, they aren't holy.. the Word Bearers are Holy!!! As for the Ultramarines I have no beef with them. They are just standard codex marines so boring.. theire fluff is great though!


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

they are the biggest arse kissers to the emperor and their combat doctrine is so old cavemen could read ahead and know what their next move will be.........sorry that was harsh but it is the truth. go ahead and say the fists are also arse kissers but they arent as bad as the smurfs, the fact that dorn stood against splitting his legion despite that that was what was accepted shows that, and they dont have such a predictable combat doctrine. plus im an iron warrior so i naturally hate loyalists hehehehe


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

they're the smurfs...not the cartoon, thats just weirdly cool...forum closed.

not really

i think their fine...we need the (super)boy scouts of (the) Imperium. BSI are huge when it comes 2 GW's dividends...

i just wish that other chapters, salamanders, White scars...+ others, could get some lovin.

i kinda wish that they just send a boatload of other chapter / legion characters out and publish an entire WD on their rules...a pre xmas 1. (next sept/oct)


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## 10228 (Sep 8, 2008)

Personally, I love the Ultramarines. They have a great paint scheme (same as the Tsons people and you dont complain about them!), and the fluff is great!


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## Arkion (Nov 21, 2007)

This is quickly going to turn into a "LOL SMURFS SUX" versus "Calm down, it's just a game and besides, they're kind of neat" discussion.

There are lots of reasons to hate. For example:
I hate the eldar because they're pansies. I hate necrons because the Monolith is a huge piece of cheese. I hate Exorcists because I don't want to pay a lot of money for them.

But there are also lots of reasons to love! For example:
I love the eldar because they're pansies, but they fight the good fight. I love necrons because the Monolith is such a great unit! I love Exorcists because I have to - my wife left me after I spent the kids' college fund buying a trio.

The Ultramarines are many things that the haters say they are, but those are some of the very reasons people love them!

I play and collect them because I love the color scheme. I also like the iconic aspect; they're the ultimate bunch of genocidal ultra-fascists, so very typifying of the 40k universe.


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## omgitsduane (May 14, 2008)

It's simple. Kill the batman.

I mean, smurfs are just pushed into our brains from the second we step into GW till, forever and I guess people are tiring of the "poster boy" army of 40k.


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

we all love to hate GW and I think the Ultramarines get the shaft because they are GW personified, nothing else... it is true the other chapters suffer... but what happened to creativity? Sure GW took alot of the fun outta the chapters by stream lining all of the rules and codexes. I for one hated what they did to Chaos, but I've survived and my Word Bearers have moved on to many victories, of which I take MY creativity and create characters and the like through various 40k leagues... Sorry if I hijacked the thread but, what happened to the players imagination? It's something GW has always been for, not against in the 18 years I've been playing! Word Bearers have never had any special characters.... c'mon Ultramarines are sweet!! Though they are the arch nemesis of my Legion!


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

Its just Ultramarines are the poster boys, there the best of the best, there the most loved, but i hate them. All the models GW makes for SM always have the Ultramarines iconography and that really annoys me, i wouldnt mind Ultramarines if they werent on every SM front cover, i would love to see Iron Hands, White Scars, Salamanders or some other secondary found chapter on front covers.


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

In their fluff the Ultras are always given the best victories, and make it seem easy. At the cost of a single company they stopped a 'nid hive fleet. Two whole chapters were nearly destroyed by the next one (probably having something to do with the fact I think the second one was 1000x the size of the first, but I can't remember where that's from so I might be wrong.). Apparently Ultramar is a wonderful paradise of flowers and fun in a crumbling Imperium.

Where's the darkness? This is 40K, no room for the whiter than whites. Where is the fanaticism, the Chaos split, the mutations, the secrecy, the struggle to even survive, the cost of war or dark side that should always be paired with greatness in 40K?

Step out of the limelight, start failing at stuff or gain a dark side could all stop me hating the Ultras and just leave a mild dislike of the fact the 4th ed (and presumable 5th ed) Space Marine codex gave less than a page in total of non-character fluff for other ex-legions, and that they have far more special characters.


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## Lupercal's Chosen (May 8, 2008)

Personally i dislike the ultramarines with a deep dark passion. They are boy scouts and goody two shoes plus theyre just so boring its unreal its the only legion/chapter that has no real personality plus they are synominous with noobes thats pretty much what it is theres no real reason to dislike them but you just have to.

KILL CALGAR!!!


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

Part of the problem with the Ultras are that they are often the first army for the newcomers to the hobby, usually younger kids. It makes you associate them with badly painted armies, loud arguments about rules (rather than checking the rulebook) and stupid fluff questions ("Why don't they make five billion space marines in each chapter and kill all the aliens?").

There is also the fact that Ultramarine players never have the problems that other marine player have for getting special characters, brassed etching, chapter specific pads, land raider/rhino doors, background information, etc that are useful when collecting an army.


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## wannabepl47 (Mar 18, 2010)

I love the Ultramarines fluff. They have carved out and held a peaceful and prosperous territory, when the rest of the galaxy is crumbling. It's the one place in game, that you would actually want to live yourself. They are the closest to true "good" in 40k humans and possibly the whole game. 

I suppose it is all about your personality and what army is "you".

I'm just that guy. Clean cut, save every penny, accounting major, watch what I eat. Workout religiously and can press 225 lbs overhead, played every sport under the sun. Kind of plain I suppose. But that's me. 

I have am identical twin bro on the other hand, exact opposite personality. He plays Ork, he loves their fluff, I cant stand them. 

The only other army that would ever interest me is playing as a regiment of IG from within Ultramar. I wouldn't be able to have fun playing a "bad" army.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

When I first played I chose Eldar, at the time they were pretty shooty, before tau back in 3rd. I started to feel the need to play MEQ army. Well SWs were cool. BAs, hell no! BT was looked at. DAs were almost picked. In the end though I picked CSMs which I never lean towards at all. Why I pick them is something straight from a 40k HH Novel. I simply hated he Ultra Marines!!! Everyone had a small army of them, everyone played Marines in general. Ultramarines was forced down my throat by a spineless company who told me as a loyaltist I had to worship a Corpse God. No thank you, Im going right over here to the CSM recruiter. Whats that? I can pillage and maim at will? Cool. Huh? I can also form a Slannesh Warband and have sexy Eldar chicks as my slaves? Sweeet. 

Played CSM and nevered look back, the modeling opportunities are limitless like Orks, The Models are wicked and unique, and I can still use Loyaltist Sprues to swell my Red Corsair Ranks. LOL.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Two words. 

Uriel Ventris. Perhaps the most kickass Marine in the 41st Millenium. I've read pretty much all the "Current" space marine series and out of Ragnar (Who is cool) Rafen (who's nuts) and Sarpedon, Uriel is the only one of them who comes out as what I percieve a Space Marine should be. Heroic and adaptive willing to put himself in harms way in order to defend humanity. 

And wonder of wonders his entire chapter is like that. They stand on the eastern Fringe as Humanity's bulwark and they don't take no crap from anybody. Coupled onto this their backstory is great, I mean they pretty much have everything, a murdered founder, a Heroic grizzled old bastard in charge and a long list of skin of their teeth victories. Anybody who says they win everything easily REALLY needs to read more. 

As for the models well they're not my favourite range that would be the Dark Angels with their Secret Warrior order Shtick. But they're still great with a strong colour scheme and some great detailing on things like the Honour Guard. 

Sure some chapters might be more Grimdark than the Ultra's but they wouldn't seem that way unless you had the Ultramarines fighting the good fight to contrast them with. After all one cannot know darkness without light.


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

Like everyone already said, its because GW advocates them so much and they never let you hear the end of them. They keep pushing them in front of your face almost everywhere you go; the marine boxes (most of which show the Smurfs as the models on the front), artwork when you go into a store, and hell even in other codices they somehow get plucked in there! (Ork Codex, the picture w/ Ultramarines getting fried by a Weirdboy, not that I don't mind it, just saying is all.) It's just so damn overdone that you get sick of it and can't help but despise it when you see it again. It's kind of like when you see the same T.V. reruns over and over, you get so sick of it you do something else. Problem with Ultrasmurfs is that you can't exactly escape from it as its deeply ingrained into 40K now, which is why people try to avoid or downright put them down whenever possible.


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## Geist (Mar 9, 2010)

wannabepl47 said:


> I love the Ultramarines fluff. They have carved out and held a peaceful and prosperous territory, when the rest of the galaxy is crumbling. It's the one place in game, that you would actually want to live yourself. They are the closest to true "good" in 40k humans and possibly the whole game.
> 
> I suppose it is all about your personality and what army is "you".
> 
> ...


I get where your coming from, I'm similar in the sense the I can't be the bad guys, but I'm different in that I want my good guys to be uncomprimising.. The Ultramarine fluff and color scheme are great. Makes me wish there was a Macragge IG regiment.

But, the story of Krieg is just so awesome imho, Krieg fallen to rebellion and a 500 year war that evolves the krieg armies into faceless, fearless warriors. The possibility that they're all clones adds to the fluff.


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## Tbirch (Mar 13, 2010)

I got a small Ultramarine's army. And I dont think my paint jobs that bad. 










I mean, sure, I would like it to be like they show on the WD, but as far as my first paintings go, I'm satisfied. Prolly tweak it a bit later on, cleaning up and so on.. but still.

And if you say only kids play ultramarines.. I've seen some pics online of BA armies, where they've been basically all painted red, with blotches of grey on the guns and a dab of yellow on the chest. 

But anyway, back on topic, I dont hate or love Ultramarines. I thought it was a easy army to paint and play for starters, while planning on what I'll do in the future. There's not really much difference to the other teams when playing, other than some rules and different colours and whatever. In the end, they're all still the same. Superhumans in futuristic battle armour. :grin:

oh yea. I'm 26. So a late starter in the hobby itself I guess.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

There is a big difference between liking Uriel Ventris and liking the Ultramarines. Uriel Ventris is the most un-ultramarine ultramarine that there is. He reminds me more of a Salamander mixed with a bit of a Blood Angel. I like Ventris and Pasanius but I dont care for the Ultramarines, especially after they exiled Uriel for saving his company's sorry asses.


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## Tbirch (Mar 13, 2010)

Didn't they take him back already?

I thought that happened in one of the latest two Ultramarines books.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tbirch said:


> Didn't they take him back already?
> 
> I thought that happened in one of the latest two Ultramarines books.


He went he saw he broke some Iron Warrior heads and came back. Then Calgar gave him back the 4th company and set him on the Tau. Uriel on the other hand found some balance and became more in line with the rest of the Ultramarines which ment he could enact even more slaughter on the enemies of Ultramar.

And surely the title of most un-Ultramarine like Ultramarine would go to Idaes or Calgar. Idaeas since he regarded the Codex as general guidelines. Or Calgar because he makes things up and you know punches Avatars to death!


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## Tbirch (Mar 13, 2010)

Coder59 said:


> Or Calgar because he makes things up and you know punches Avatars to death!


That reminds me of Angry Marines. 

Imagine an Eldar Avatar lying on the ground with some teeth knocked out, blood coming out from the mouth and nose, bruised eyes and face.. Trying to put its hands in front of its face with Calgar holding its collar with one hand and ready to pound once more with his power fist.

Could work with the avatar still standing up too. Maybe even better.


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

uriel=awesome
cassius=awesome
ultramarines= annoying if you read their fluff its even more im awesome and great than any other codex.


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tbirch said:


> That reminds me of Angry Marines.
> 
> Imagine an Eldar Avatar lying on the ground with some teeth knocked out, blood coming out from the mouth and nose, bruised eyes and face.. Trying to put its hands in front of its face with Calgar holding its collar with one hand and ready to pound once more with his power fist.
> 
> Could work with the avatar still standing up too. Maybe even better.


Marneus Calgar Lord of Ultramar and bearer of the mighty bloodline of Mr T.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

thomas2 said:


> In their fluff the Ultras are always given the best victories, and make it seem easy.


Its also because they have way too much fluff written about them. Which is fine but... :alcoholic: I DONT CARE ANYMORE. 

LOOKS: Before the newer color of blue and gold I totally disliked the blue and yellow. They pretty much look too "baby boy toy looken." But I do like the blue and gold.

Because they are the "Space Marine Poster Boys" they also kind of look unoriginal. Like someone just got a bunch of space marines and didn't even look at variety, which is not true of course, but thats what comes into my mind. Look at the first page where its says just "here." He basically had it all down.


WARHAMMER 40K UNIVERSE: I dislike Guilleman and the Ultramarines mostly throughout the heresy and after. Reason being, they really weren't able to live up to their potential during the Heresy because of the Word Bearer back stab so to speak. Then... we have the creation of chapters which basically CONTRIBUTED to the fall of greatness of the space marines. The betrayal of Horus and half the legion obviously being the direct reason. However, I really dislike the idea of making a potentially destructive force into a much weaker one(not weak, weaker, we all know the destructive force of a lone company). The fear of loosing an entire legion again being the reason, but at a cost. The Imperium could never have the great power to wash away and claim systems ever again, like they did during the crusade. The idea of sending thousands of marines to cleanse a planet so quickly and quelling the invasions of the tyranid and ork much easier. Imagine if the ultrasmurfs had thousands of marines during the tyranid invasions instead of just a few.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

It's because Space Marines, no matter what chapter, are all way overpowered, such as moving 6" and shooting all the LR guns, repairing an immobalized result, 3+ armor save, the fact that you play SM in the first place makes you a noob, because you're essentially saying you know no tactics, and you always want to win while everyone else suffers with their unstable Codex.


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## WarlordKaptainGrishnak (Dec 23, 2008)

Well the new SM Codex attempts to share the limelight, there is actually pictures of Sallys and Scars in there, non-Ultra Characters and such. Yes its annoying that the Ultras. get the majority of attention, they are after all the [Ultra Synonyms:] "all out, drastic, excessive, extremist, fanatical, far-out, gone*, immoderate, out of bounds, outlandish, outré, rabid*, radical, revolutionary, too much*" Marines

* = informal/non-formal usage

they embody what it is to be 'Codex Astartes', which is what approx 90% + of SM Chapters are, plus their Primarch wrote the 'rules'/guidelines on how a Chapter should run. of course they would get the most attention.

haha Rabid Marines...now that's an idea....


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

DestroyerHive said:


> It's because Space Marines, no matter what chapter, are all way overpowered, such as moving 6" and shooting all the LR guns, repairing an immobalized result, 3+ armor save, the fact that you play SM in the first place makes you a noob, because you're essentially saying you know no tactics, and you always want to win while everyone else suffers with their unstable Codex.


....:no:.....

Thats just a redicolous thing to say. A player who is a very successful player with space marines has good tactic. I would say that space marines are probably the hardest army to play. Any person who worships the 3+ save is a fool, all it is, is a third failure rate on a dice roll. Plus many of the codexes are being remade so they aren't as unstable as you might think. Every army has counter moves towards the space marines, I would say too many cause theres not many ways to counter that counter.

I suppose you could say tyranid and ork armies are "noob" armies, as the only tactic is to send all your models forward hoping you wont lose too many. Or Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Tau are "noob" armies because it is fairly cheap to have the best weapons in the game for real cheap and many of them.


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## Geist (Mar 9, 2010)

ckcrawford said:


> ....:no:.....
> 
> Thats just a redicolous thing to say. A player who is a very successful player with space marines has good tactic. I would say that space marines are probably the hardest army to play. Any person who worships the 3+ save is a fool, all it is, is a third failure rate on a dice roll. Plus many of the codexes are being remade so they aren't as unstable as you might think. Every army has counter moves towards the space marines, I would say too many cause theres not many ways to counter that counter.
> 
> I suppose you could say tyranid and ork armies are "noob" armies, as the only tactic is to send all your models forward hoping you wont lose too many. Or Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Tau are "noob" armies because it is fairly cheap to have the best weapons in the game for real cheap and many of them.


Hmm, Imperial Guard aren't included in the "noob army" list? I'm not sure whether to be proud or worried since I'm a noob and want to get a IG army as my first army....


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

CommissarGhost said:


> Hmm, Imperial Guard aren't included in the "noob army" list? I'm not sure whether to be proud or worried since I'm a noob and want to get a IG army as my first army....


Imperial guard are a different kind of noob army :laugh:

You dont need to move you just sit there with lots and lots of guns! 

But to be a good play with the IG aahhhh then you learn exactly where to point your guns so dat the big mean Space Maweens get their legs blown off by the hellish amount of firepower. 

Imperial Guard = Kickass!


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

haha. No i just was providing examples.


p.s. Coder59 the new blood angels codex is fricken amazing. Lord Mephiston has strength and toughness 6, and death company dreadnoughts are gonna be the shit. Probably the most overpowered space marine codex.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Whilst Space Marines are a popular choice they certainly aren't easy to win with against anyone who's the least bit experienced *because* they're so widespread most people plan their armies to deal with 3+ saves. This obvisouyl negates the impact the Emperor's finest have :biggrin:


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> haha. No i just was providing examples.
> 
> 
> p.s. Coder59 the new blood angels codex is fricken amazing. Lord Mephiston has strength and toughness 6, and death company dreadnoughts are gonna be the shit. Probably the most overpowered space marine codex.


I know I've got it on Pre-order and I plan to run roughshod over my friend's black Legion army. Now if you want to complain about overpowered look at the Chaos Marines.


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## kaled (Jun 24, 2008)

What I find kinda interesting is that so many people say they hate Ultramarines because GW push them down people's throats, give them the most fluff, they're the poster boys, and all that type of stuff - yet many of those same people still love Marines in general who are pushed down people's throats, have more fluff than anyone else and are the poster boys of 40k...


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## toalewa850 (Mar 21, 2010)

The Ultramarines are so simple. That's why no one likes them.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

kaled said:


> What I find kinda interesting is that so many people say they hate Ultramarines because GW push them down people's throats, give them the most fluff, they're the poster boys, and all that type of stuff - yet many of those same people still love Marines in general who are pushed down people's throats, have more fluff than anyone else and are the poster boys of 40k...


The Ultramarines were not the first marine chapter to be the face of 40k. Before that I believe the Crimson fists were the first ones. The first starter kit had dark eldar and crimson fists, and before that, I believe it was the "black" not green dark angels. But that was along time ago, and I'm not quite sure about the DA, I just heard about it. And neither of them were as hated as the Ultra-Smurffs. I think it has to do with the color. Bright Blue is a selling tool I believe because its just very attractive to the eye, I believe thats why they decided to stick with that color. fluff contributes to, though I would say Blood Ravens have also been a chapter running up there in popularity. 

I do agree that space marines in general are rammed down peoples throats in the 40k world. I think especially since every starter kit has space marines. Especially since its also the best deal purposley. It sucks when you get it and you want another army. They should change that, and get some more variety in there.


p.s. im editing but not sure whether it was the black templar or crimson fists


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## primeministersinsiter (May 31, 2009)

I like them. I think they don't get any love because some people care far too much about the toys other people play with.


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## Daniel Harper (May 25, 2008)

Yeah ckcrawford I believe it was Black Templar. I still have some floating around somewhere. *Goes to look*


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

What can I say people are bigots, personally I see Smurfs less often then any other army in my area. To make perfectly clear how rare they are where I am we have 4 chaos players (Me being the most competitive and generally unpleasant). 3 tau players. 2 ork players, and 3 none smurf marine players topped off with 2-3 eldar players so yah I would welcome a smurf army.


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