# 1st edition fluff



## XV8crisis (Jul 31, 2008)

Woo was first edition fluff funny! According to 1st ed, terminator armour was originally made for workers in space, and boltguns were actually made for putting bolts into spaceship hull plates to hold them together!

If anyone's got any funny 1st ed stuff to share then reply to this. Let's spread the humour.

______________________________________
'_a good general does not lead his army to destruction just because he knows they will follow_'


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

No, you don't get it, it's the _5th_ Ed fluff that's funny... the Ultramarines a 1st Founding Chapter? Hahaha. Space Marine Sergeants can't have Shuriken Pistols? Ridiculous! The Raven's Wing don't have 100 jetbikes? Don't make me laugh. Chief Librarian Tigurius? Do you mean half-Eldar Chief Librarian-Astropath Illyan Nastase? Wot no Squats? Ludicrous! And Marneaus Calgar wasn't found on a Genestealer-infested hulk? You don't know what you're talking about...

lder than he looks cyclops:


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

LOL WUT

No seriously I've completely lost you Red Orc.


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## Exitus_10 (Jul 14, 2008)

OOOkkk. that is very interesting


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

erm....the current fluff for Terminator Armour is that it was an evolution from the extreme environmental suits worn for working in dangerous situations in hard vacuum.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

@ Cato... which bits didn't you get?



Red Orc said:


> ... the Ultramarines a 1st Founding Chapter...


 - originally 3rd I believe.



Red Orc said:


> ... Space Marine Sergeants can't have Shuriken Pistols...


 - I still have both the model and the rules.



Red Orc said:


> ... The Raven's Wing don't have 100 jetbikes...


 - still have the army list, but sadly never had the models...



Red Orc said:


> ... Chief Librarian Tigurius? Do you mean half-Eldar Chief Librarian-Astropath Illyan Nastase?


 ... as the Ultramarines' Chief Librarian used to be called. He was the son of an Eldar pirate and a human captive, and was named (somewhat bizzarly) after an Iranian tennis player from the 1970s.



Red Orc said:


> ...Wot no Squats?


 (Space Dwarves. Whisper their name.)



Red Orc said:


> ...And Marneaus Calgar wasn't found on a Genestealer-infested hulk...


 - as he was in the background to the first Ultramarines army list...

:keeper of secrets cyclops:


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

got any other wierd ones Red Orc???? I'd love to here them:biggrin:!!!!


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

Aww I still remember the Squats they were ace. Sort of like Ogryns, support for IG but completely the opposite in stature!


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

I don't know what you mean! This is the _normal_ stuff! It's you lot who have the _weird_ fluff. I mean, who the **** are the Tau? I was quite surprised when I came back to the game. "Hmm, no Space Dwarves... but we have Manga Fish-people instead. Odd". Or the Necrons? (Ah, I know, "Chaos Androids" as they used to be called.) 

Why does the first mention of the Tyrannids now happen at the Battle of Macragge, more than 120 years after the Blood Angels began fighting them? When did Captain Dante leave the Salamanders and join the Blood Angels? 

When did the Mentor Legion stop hiring itself out in small squads to other Chapters (think Deathwatch... _that's_ what the Mentors used to do, more or less)? And when did they drop their cute little owl badge?

There's a lot of changes to fluff and rules - not just mechanics, but the interaction between rules and lists and models - like wargear options, squad sizes, allsorts. If you can pick up old books (look in 2nd-hand stores rather than ebay) cheaply, they're worth a read honest, it's not just old history-nut boring farts like me who think so...

:gazing at the portable electron machine wondering how the words cross the aether cyclops:


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

Soz Red Orc I was just a bit... hmm I can't describe it. It's just that i wasn't around back then and so to me the example of a Sergeant with a Shuriken Pistol, the Marneus thing, and the Tigurius thing was just odd. Like to see what other people put though.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

No need to apologise mate, we can't all be old dusty farts from the Dawn of Time! Eeeh, I remember when all this were Atom-mills...

No, it's just that a lot of the background has changed a lot. And a lot of it happened when I wasn't looking. Getting back into the game after several years off was... sometimes confusing. But I think I've acclimatised :wink:

Basically, in the old days, things weren't so 'hard and fast'. Yes marines could use eldar weapons. Eldar could be allied to Imperial forces. It was more like... LotR in Space. WHFB wasn't as 'hard' either... no Army Books, so no "this army can have this but not that" - anyone could have everything. Hence, half-Eldar librarians, shuriken pistols and all the rest.

:nostalgia cyclops:


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

weren't the Salamanders yeller???:biggrin:


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## EndangeredHuman (Feb 20, 2008)

Don't forget that planets were named after cake factories!


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## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

Well, the imperium no longer use robots that the player has to create a "program" for before the battle starts.

They were always comical when you opponent didn't understand how the programs worked 

I wish I hadn't got rid of all my old 1st ed stuff, I'd so like to go back and pick some funny bits of fluff out!


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

Planets weren't all named after cake factories in 1st ed.

Some were named after pop stars of dubious talent. Minogue K, for example.

I didn't know that RTD was responsible for writing fluff back then.

Scouts could (and came with) use shuriken catapults, as could full marines. Eldar carried their heavy weapons like every other shmoe (like they do now, since the weapon platform is actually just a marker and takes up zero room in transports).

Harlequins would loot the battlefield vehicles of other races, and you could use them as your own (Land Raider, yep. just hang it with bunting and banner and pennants and paint it in lurid colours.).

Space Marines were recruited from the ranks of the mind-wiped. Death of personality and hello new life - here's your armour and gun. Go forth and slay the enemies of mankind in HIS name.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Had a root through Rogue Trader last night, some really funny stuff in there. There's an Inquisitor called Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau:biggrin:. Zoats eat Zoatibixuke:. Do they get their recommended daily ruffage from them I wonder? There were also aliens called Bouncers, which are round, orange, and bouncy. Is it a coincidence that Space Hoppers were all the rage when RT was written? I assume these were the basis for squigs.

It also talks about the Chapters deliberatly recruiting psychopaths as they made the most efficient killers. So they were all like the Night Lords back then.


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

good old night lords, being 15 i can't say there has been change in fluff for me, and space marines used eldar weapons?

hmmmmmm bloody hypocritts they are....


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

dirty-dog- said:


> good old night lords, being 15 i can't say there has been change in fluff for me, and space marines used eldar weapons?
> 
> hmmmmmm bloody hypocritts they are....


Yeah, you could upgrade a sargent to have a shuriken catapult. Also, the Slann were a fairly major race back then. I think the same hive fleet that ate the squats got the Slann aswell.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Baron Spikey said:


> erm....the current fluff for Terminator Armour is that it was an evolution from the extreme environmental suits worn for working in dangerous situations in hard vacuum.


Am isn't the current fluff that they were designed as an in between of dreadnoughts and power armour? hence tactical dreadnought armour?? 

But the old fluff was great. I wasn't aroud then but I read up on a lot of it and damn.... It's the reason I hate smurfs.... Their fluff has had the biggest change I think.....

And wasn't dante in the slamander's in name only?? Like ventris is a smurf captain but there can be other ventris's in other chapters....


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Lord Reevan said:


> ... wasn't dante in the slamander's in name only?? Like ventris is a smurf captain but there can be other ventris's in other chapters....


yeah, maybe. But the first "Dante" I came across was a Salamander... Captain I think, he might even have been a Sergeant, I can't remember now. But he was a Sallie, I'm sure of it!

:gonna check when he gets home cyclops:


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

Slann got eaten by nids, ummm...they went extinct way before then by new fluff and stuff.....


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Farseer Beltiac said:


> Slann got eaten by nids, ummm...they went extinct way before then by new fluff and stuff.....


Sorry, I was being sarcastic with regard to the convenient way GW wrote the squats out of the game.


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## Brother Strife (Jun 5, 2008)

I always liked Sgt Leman Russ :laugh:


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

Khorne's Fist said:


> Sorry, I was being sarcastic with regard to the convenient way GW wrote the squats out of the game.


I getcha, my bad. Good one, I didn't pick it up at first. So they did not have a codex or anything. Could I still find minis of slann???


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## Exitus_10 (Jul 14, 2008)

Wasn't there a vehicle combat system based on paper datafaxes?? My bro told me about that a while ago, wasn't it all like the lined decide where the hits take place and stuff like that?


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## Camaris (Aug 4, 2008)

> Wasn't there a vehicle combat system based on paper datafaxes?? My bro told me about that a while ago, wasn't it all like the lined decide where the hits take place and stuff like that?


Maybe. But it certainly still was there in 2nd edition.


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## Exitus_10 (Jul 14, 2008)

Dunno if it was first or second. Plus that stuff was all real serius with wacky eldar drawings and stuff


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## Chase The hero (Sep 26, 2008)

> Could I still find minis of slann???


the have slann minis in the fantasy range (lizardmen)


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

Chase The hero said:


> the have slann minis in the fantasy range (lizardmen)


yeah Lizardmen. Give them Tau guns or bolters.....

whatever happend to the Rainbow Warriors???


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## EndangeredHuman (Feb 20, 2008)

Farseer Beltiac said:


> whatever happend to the Rainbow Warriors???


With a name like that, it's quite obvious why. :laugh: But I think they, again were eaten.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Farseer Beltiac said:


> whatever happend to the Rainbow Warriors???



There are actually rules out there somewhere for them, but I can't find them at the mo. IIRC they could move and fire with heavy weapons, and didn't like using vehicles.


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## TTIO (Sep 5, 2008)

Chase The hero said:


> the have slann minis in the fantasy range (lizardmen)


Slaan is a character from NWN2, if I remember correctly 

Lizardman that you can choose to help/kill. Then you do something with his tribe (negotiate/kill, depending on whether you helped/killed Slaan) and then you get to go to Neverwinter once you've dealt with them...


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

Khorne's Fist said:


> There are actually rules out there somewhere for them, but I can't find them at the mo. IIRC they could move and fire with heavy weapons, and didn't like using vehicles.


and were super overzealous on the battle field and punished people for hurting and poisining the enviroment. lol :biggrin: This is a good amount of info thanks!!! Now I can make a squad eventually....in a year or two...still workin' on my Eldorks.....


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## The Thunder Ravens (Jul 7, 2008)

Exitus 10 your right about the vehicle datafax thing coz i've got white dwarf 149 infront of me now (i was about 11 when it came out) its got the rules for using space marine bikes in. The datafax is a black and white diagram of the bike with various parts marked on ( chasis, rider, wheels, side car, weapons etc) all the various parts have a number you would need to hit them and then a score you'd have to beat to cause a penetrating hit. All really cool but took a long time to sort out who hit what and whether it caused damage at all


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

Here's a site with all the Rogue Trader minis I found in one of my 40k quests for knowledge.....pretty cool stuff!!!!:biggrin:

http://www.solegends.com/citrt/index.htm


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## Mr Day (Jan 23, 2008)

I was under the impression that Orks had boltguns in the early editions... now that's dakka!


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## comrade (Jun 30, 2008)

Actually the orks were really cool back then, they we're more of a Piratical Force that was centered around certain 'Houses' what we refer to warbands now I guess.

When the went to war, every household that is part of the Major House (lets say Goffs) had a supply at least one Nob, and 5 boyz. And when they battle was won, they split the Armor, and weapons between each house in accordance to how many Boyz they supplied for the battle.

And they used to hire Human Mercenaries back then too.

It was great. I miss that fluff, but new Ork Fluff is fine to.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Mr Day said:


> I was under the impression that Orks had boltguns in the early editions... now that's dakka!


That's right. They had plasma guns as well. I think I have one in my bits box. All the races had all the weapon types available to them.


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

Space Elves lol. I think I also found second edition on that site somewhere but I can't locate it now.....I think the Eldar were like raiders or something too!!! They also had Space Slann and the Ambull....whatever that is.....

I actually liked the Imperial Guard back then too!!! If only I could find some on Ebay.....


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Yeah, Eldar were pretty much all pirates is how I remember it. When I started playing again, I was quite surprised that there were now "Eldar" and "Dark Eldar"... "weren't the Eldar dark enough?" I thought.

As for the weapon types... I sometimes still forget that a heavy bolter doesn't have the same stats as a big shoota...

:amnesiac cyclops:


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

http://www.solegends.com/citrt/rt105lordmacragge.htm

Who was Lord Maccrage:dunno:??? is it pronounced Mick-krayg????


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## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

Farseer Beltiac said:


> http://www.solegends.com/citrt/rt105lordmacragge.htm
> 
> Who was Lord Maccrage:dunno:??? is it pronounced Mick-krayg????


That's ol' Poppa Smurf, Marneus Calgar.


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## keytag33 (Apr 20, 2008)

two words 


virus grenades(or barring that the virus stratagy card) 
What was GW thinking?


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

Here's a bit of lore for you Neccie players...

When Necrons were first introduced at the tail end of 2nd ed, scarabs actually reduced the armor value of a vehicle by one point per turn of sitting on it. Sucked serious sack to have one's AV14 land raider reduced to AV12 on all sides. Back when the army was known as, "Necron Raiders."

I love how, over the years, GW has simply done the, "Oh shit, I really hope no one saw that. We'll just pretend like it never happened, or write the idea off in some non-spectacular, very low-key fashion." Such as, as mentioned, the Rainbow Warriors. I swear by everything holy, if I ever did a vanilla marine army, I would so build Rainbow Warriors. I'm just not sure my greenstuff abilities are able to produce enough assless chaps for my tac squads.


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## Exitus_10 (Jul 14, 2008)

Werent they like Chaos Androids a while ago, they looked soo much cooler


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## col44mag (Mar 30, 2008)

Who were the slann?


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## col44mag (Mar 30, 2008)

What the HELL rainbow warriors? You know you arent around for 20 years of 40k and you miss some things.


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

col44mag said:


> Who were the slann?


Slaan is warhammer fantasy, I think you mean old ones.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

No, I'm pretty sure Slann were in 40k too. Rick Priestly used to refer to them as the 'Aztec Space Frogs', but then again he's a pretty strange guy.

The Rainbow Warriors, IIRC, were the chapter from which the Ultramarines geneseed was taken, when they (the Ultras) were a 3rd founding chapter.

Lord Macragge was indeed Marneus Calgar, and still is. His title as the holder of the Imperial feif of Ultramar is "Lord Macragge", a title borne by all the Masters of the Ultramarines.

And yes Necrons used to be Chaos Androids, but I think they first appeared in Space Crusade (about 1991). I could be wrong, it has been known before, but I really don't remember them from RT days.

:senior moment cyclops:


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## Exitus_10 (Jul 14, 2008)

Oh yea Space Crusade thats the one, i use to play it when i was like 5 or sumthin, it was never sold in US right?? And plus i loved the computer game the intro was one of those things you never stop watching.


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

slann are now these:









and was this what you were talking about Red Ork?
http://www.fortunecity.com/underworld/myst/171/slann.jpg


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

I dunno on the second one mate... all I'm getting is a little "Fortune City" logo.

That is indeed the Slann as they are now, great fat magical froggy overlords of the Lizardmen. When they started in WHFB, they were like Lizardmenn, but Frogmen, and they hated the Brettonians and kept lobotomized eunuchs as guards, porters and cannon-fodder; while the Lizardmen lived under the World's Edge Mountains and attacked the Dwarfs from below, much like the Skaven do now.

The Slann also used arcane technologies to build the Polar Warp Gates (that let Chaos Warriors into Warhammer World) and had 'transmat sites', like Eldar webway portals, and I've heard a rumour that 'Warhammer World" is so called because "Warhammer" was the name of the first (or possibly last) Slann spaceship there...

:curator of ancient curiosities cyclops:


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

maybe the link will work?


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

They actually did have Slann minis for 40k back in the Rogue Trader days.....Space Slann they called them. They're pretty much backwater now functioning as small tribes on remote or deserted planets....

http://www.solegends.com/citrt/tsf18spaceslann.htm

here's a linky:mrgreen::


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

'fraid not Dirty Dog, just a blank page with a little Fortune City logo... sorry.

:agog to find out what the nystery is cyclops:

EDIT: sorry, Beltiac posted while I was posting... those are whacky looking Space Slann there mate! Very... _old school_ I think is the term. That's polite for "blimey! Weren't they a bit shit?"


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## Deneris (Jul 23, 2008)

Wraithian said:


> Here's a bit of lore for you Neccie players...
> 
> When Necrons were first introduced at the tail end of 2nd ed, scarabs actually reduced the armor value of a vehicle by one point per turn of sitting on it. Sucked serious sack to have one's AV14 land raider reduced to AV12 on all sides. Back when the army was known as, "Necron Raiders."
> 
> I love how, over the years, GW has simply done the, "Oh shit, I really hope no one saw that. We'll just pretend like it never happened, or write the idea off in some non-spectacular, very low-key fashion." Such as, as mentioned, the Rainbow Warriors. I swear by everything holy, if I ever did a vanilla marine army, I would so build Rainbow Warriors. I'm just not sure my greenstuff abilities are able to produce enough assless chaps for my tac squads.


Granted, back when the Necrons first showed up the Scarabs could also detonate themselves...

And Leman Russ tanks, I recall, had a frontal armor rating of 21...

To penetrate armor in those days you had to roll a bewildering array of dice to see if you had penetrated, as well as WHAT you had hit...

I fondly recall arming my Evil Sunz orks with Plasma cannons...

And who can forget the classic plastic battlewagon?


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## Farseer Beltiac (Jul 11, 2008)

Red Orc said:


> 'fraid not Dirty Dog, just a blank page with a little Fortune City logo... sorry.
> 
> :agog to find out what the nystery is cyclops:
> 
> EDIT: sorry, Beltiac posted while I was posting... those are whacky looking Space Slann there mate! Very... _old school_ I think is the term. That's polite for "blimey! Weren't they a bit shit?"





Deneris said:


> And who can forget the classic plastic battlewagon?


so shit it was cool!!!!:biggrin: I'd love to get my hand on some of those...and paint them....


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

The old space slann were the descendants of the old ones.
The children of those who made the eldar and orks.
They got mostly eaten by the enslaver plague.

Just about all the basic weapons could be used by any race (chances went up/down per army). Marines could use shuricats (which were better than storm bolters), eldar/orks had access to plasma weapons (heavy, 'basic' and pistol'), melta and multimelta weapons and lascannons (and eldar guardians carried lasguns - the identical lasguns to the guard (then Army) ones - but the army used a lot more autoguns.


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