# Do you bother shooting Land Raiders?



## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

The title says it all, do you bother?

Lately, I've been finding that I just don't bother. I waste too many heavy weapons trying to bring them down, only to fail most of the time. 

So, like I said, lately I've been finding that I just leave em alone and plan for whatever comes out of them. It's actually worked pretty well as I've cut costs on heavy weapons and purchased other things in my armies.

The only ranged weapons I've really found reliable against LR's are those with the 'lance' special rule.

So, do you bother?


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## exsulis (Jul 17, 2008)

Well, it comes down to what army you field. And I'm guessing from the points, and the "lance" rule you are using Eldar, and not their cheaper Dark bretheren.

Unless, my opponet is driving an empty LR, I generally don't want whatever is inside of it near my troops. But redirecting a Mortis Dread, or two to a incoming LR isn't a bad idea.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I tend to go hunting LRs- long range firepower is rubbish agaimst it unless you are firing something special (lance, S10 AP1 etc), shooting anything that is just S8 or S9 is normally a waste of time- I would shoot them at a LR only if I didnt have decent targets to hit instead.

To kill LRs with marines requires melta weaponry- up till now wolf scouts have been my weapon of choce although drop podding dreadnaughts, DS land speeders and attack bikes work well too. Basically throwing cheap disposable units at the LRs that have a melta shot or 2 in them is great... if they kill it they have certainly got their points back, if they dont who cares...

If my melta weaponry dies, or is outmanouvered then I will often put a relatively cheap unit in the path of the raider tempting the occupants out (a unit of 6 grey hunters with a meltagun is normally sufficient). Most players will see a target (especially if it has melta weaponry) and get blind to whats beond it... so after my GHs die I'lll counter charge (with blood claws normally, termies work too) and smash whatever it was in the LR. After that its all rather ignorable.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I do what I can to glance them to death with Gauss special rule. Destroyers and HDs are really good for this. Having a LR dump a pile of SM on you is never fun but if I can force them to get out, they'll all be bunched together and I can P whip them. Bye bye, SM.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

I have a railgun
I have no excuse. Also when terminators emerge... I die


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

depends.... as Ork Warboss I normaly ignore them till their deadly payload comes out

as ascending Necrronlord I will glance them till they stand still and let em there Destroyers... HD.... they will do their Job


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## Alex (Jan 19, 2008)

If I know there's a nasty unit inside that I could hold up for a turn through the pinning test then yes my railguns shoot the LR. If it's empty then it's usually wasting shots trying to hit my disruption field protected vehicles, so I leave it alone.


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## Grimskul25 (Feb 17, 2009)

Nope, not at all, because for me since I play Orks there's almost nothing in my arsenal that can reliably shoot down a Land Raider. I basically deal with them with the weapon I use for everything else ; Power Klaws! A charge from my Warboss is likely to pop it with 6 S10 attacks an even Nobz can give a respectable S9 charge as well, both likely to destroy at least hamper is movement. Other than that if it's an empty LR though I'd likely ignore it, most LR don't have enough firepower to seriously threaten my orks.


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## Smrtubija (Sep 14, 2009)

Hm...from my experience ( i play csm) they go down from Vindicator fire because of the ordnance rule. Multimeltas are good 2 . Shooting on them with lascannons is a vaste imho ( unless you get lucky  ) .


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

I tend to send Attack Bike squadrons equipped with Multi Meltas after them it works most of the time.

Having said that in any army with hard hitting armour I've started taking a battery of Lascannons sometimes you just get lucky and if anything I've found that pounding a raider with a unit of devastators usually distracts your opponent from other tank busting units.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Only Lance and Melta weapons. Even Power Klaws don't cut it, unless the opponent is stupid enough not to move the LR in the previous turn.


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

It depends on the situation - i like to bring as many oblits as i can, so there are 2 ways enemy can bring a raider:1. he is trying to shield his other forces with it = i shoot the other forces first 2. he is trying to use landraiders as actual firepower, then its more of a tactical fight of "getting oblits into melta range/charging daemon princes at it"


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## Holmstrom (Dec 3, 2008)

I'd say you'd be a fool not to formulate a plan to counter a Land Raider. Otherwise you'd end up being riddled to pieces, set on fire and/or crushed to death. Assault Terminators could do a lot of damage if they get to where they need to be. Causing a forced deployment from an immobilized+ roll could buy you some time and save some units. Only a handful of weapons can take on a Godhammer out of range and not much is worth using in small numbers closer then that. I've learned to clench my teeth in the face of just one enemy tactic so far in Warhammer games, and that is the combined fire of two Eldar Fire Prism tanks. I took a serious blow in a practice game against my friends stand in army.

Although the problem with that battle was that we played in an battlefield as large as his room, so he could skirt out of range every turn to fire at it. But still, one hit is all you need. I've never fought another Space Marine force, but a Master of The Forge would also present a danger to a Land Raider if geared with a conversion beamer. A shot in the 42-72" range yields a S10 AP1 Heavy Blast. If a MoTF is given a bike that makes him all the deadlier in counter Raider tactics.

So aside from that, like *TheKingElessar* said, spamming melta, lance and getting a strong melee weapon in range is all you can do. Depending on the variant, it could be easier than one may think. But caution should be used if you want to have anything left over.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

I play Nids, so all I do is Venom Cannon them, and hope I destroy some of their guns or Immobilise it


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Vibro Cannons D-Cannons, and Wraith Weapons work too, but the range is problematical.

Grenades are an option, but not a great one.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Creon said:


> Vibro Cannons D-Cannons, and Wraith Weapons work too, but the range is problematical.


The range is NO problem for Wraithguard when you have 5 in a Wave Serpent.
Move 36" right up to them, gaining your 4+ save.
They move away 12" (gasp!), next turn you move 12", turn about, dismount, and blast him from 1" away.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Winterous said:


> The range is NO problem for Wraithguard when you have 5 in a Wave Serpent.
> Move 36" right up to them, gaining your 4+ save.
> They move away 12" (gasp!), next turn you move 12", turn about, dismount, and blast him from 1" away.


Except...that costs a minimum of 275 points. With no Warlock. No Warlock means the squad is wiped out if the Serpent is shot down with them on board. Oh, and 5 Wraithguard = 4 hits = 1 pen. Hardly guaranteed.


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## Valanehtar (Sep 10, 2009)

For me it depends on the points cost and whether it is a LR or LRC. If its a 1k battle and a LR I will use the first turn (and possibly second, depending on other targets) shooting at it with my LR then spend the rest of the time hunting it down with a IST melta squad in a rhino or chimera. Destroying the LR at 1k points is huge advantage becuase its 25% of their force. At 1500 points I'd probably ignore the LR (unless my own LR has no other targets) as it doesn't pose a large threat to my force; but it really depends on how much armor you run. However if it is a LRC (or Redeemer but I've never actually faced one) I will do everything I can to destroy it as quickly as possible. Because it is likely full of all kinds of unpleasantness that could make my troops very miserable.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Except...that costs a minimum of 275 points. With no Warlock. No Warlock means the squad is wiped out if the Serpent is shot down with them on board. Oh, and 5 Wraithguard = 4 hits = 1 pen. Hardly guaranteed.


I was just explaining the possibility 
BTW, check the comment stream on Mind War.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Range is a problem with Wraithguard. Not an insurmountable problem, to be sure, but a problem. I do say I prefer to pop them with my D-cannon, anyway. Or assault once the V-cannons have stunned it.


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## Logyn (Oct 8, 2009)

As a Nid player, I find that a well placed carnifex can turn that land raider into a piece of terrain in one charge. That fact alone usually means that it's nowhere near my guys.
Sometimes the threat of killing it is enough to make your opponent leave it alone


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

It has been said before, but as a Tau player there is no better target for 2+ Railguns. Especially since I have to stop them from unloading whatever is on the inside 

But as Space Marines, only if I have a Vindicator.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

With Guard I have three Vendettas flying about, so I'm not that scared of having little effect.

Though I feel like I have to take care of them. Crusaders and Redeemers both carry Assault Cannons, and my majority armour facing is 12.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Melta is probably the most reliable method, with the obvious draw-back of having to be fairly close.

Multiple Broadside Railgun's are also a viable option, providing the tank isn't getting a cover save.


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

I prefer to take out the lighter vehicles first before worrying about the big bad rolling towards me when I use my marines. Melta weapons are the best bet followed by las cannons if there is nothing else to shoot at.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

As with many others, I tend to just let land raiders through. I can generally put something like a combat squad in front of the thing so that the assault termies, abaddon or whoever it is don't really achieve a lot, then I shoot them a bunch of times.

I find a very effective way of resisting an attack is to let bits of it through, then counter attack and kill them, while knocking out the transports of the supporting units. That way the enemy shows up a bit at a time and you can generally deal with them easily enough. I'm currently using a mixture of Typhoons and cyclones for the transports and any long ranged stuff that needs doing, with a buch of meltas for when things get close.

Right now it's very difficult to kill a smoked land raider at range, and not really difficult at all to melt one up close. It makes sense to do the latter.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Yes I do bother, I play DE so that means I can field many 'Lance' weapons as that's my main gun that I get - plus as a DE I can get 4 DL's for the price of 1 Eldar BL. So if the enemy is taking LR's I usually turn around and say to them what army I play just so they can have more fun rather than watching 500 or more points (if they field 3 -never seen it) die rather quickly leaving them facing 1750pts of DE VS 1250pts of SM/CSM. I like to help my opponent beat me as best they possibly can to have a good fun match rather than the I'm bored and going to loose as I lost the 2 biggest units in my army to one round of shooting. As I said if they do come on the board I deal with them as my army can very well and the LR can usually deal with my tanks pretty well Lascannons shred Ravagers and Raiders not to mention the HB on it can aswell.


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## Rye (Sep 22, 2009)

I mostly rely on luck with lascannons or hope the melta squads survive long enough to get close, but Pasquishers are very handy against that sort of armour.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

If I'm playing my Blood Angels as themselves, "Mobile Melta" is my byword. Every VAS has a pair of meltas and a fist or hammer, every tactical squad has a fist, melta and three other dudes waiting inside a transport to move in for the kill while the misisle launcher and his team wait on the hill. Regular assault squads usually steer clear for their lack of meltaness, they go after enemy troops. My real heavy support comes in the form of between sx and nine Multimelta Attack Bikes.

50 point MMABs are one of the most solid choices in the BA codex. Swap for HBs if you know you're not facing MEq

If I'm running Chaos as BA, it's much the same. Meltagun havocs in rhinos, meltas on raptors, meltas in CSM squads, but generally the winged warp/wind Tzeentch DP can rip into tanks pretty reliably. 

SW as BA, meltas in Grey Hunters, a metric shitton of misisles (15 S8 shots will eventually do the job ), and at least one, usually two S10 thunderwolf powerfists.

For my orks, ramming with deffrollas (It's been debated to death so we're not going there, but everyone I know rules that it works and we have fun), tankbustas (again, 15 rokkits will do the job eventually, even if only 5 or 6 hit at a time lol), and never underestimate a S9 or S10 furious charging powa klaw, given enough attacks.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I play Eldar.

I have 6 Fire Dragons for 96pts.

The worst they've ever done against a Land Raider is blow up both Weapons and Immobilise it. Normally it goes pop. Problem solved.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Holmstrom said:


> I'd say you'd be a fool not to formulate a plan to counter a Land Raider. Otherwise you'd end up being riddled to pieces, set on fire and/or crushed to death. Assault Terminators could do a lot of damage if they get to where they need to be. Causing a forced deployment from an immobilized+ roll could buy you some time and save some units. Only a handful of weapons can take on a Godhammer out of range and not much is worth using in small numbers closer then that. I've learned to clench my teeth in the face of just one enemy tactic so far in Warhammer games, and that is the combined fire of two Eldar Fire Prism tanks. I took a serious blow in a practice game against my friends stand in army.
> 
> Although the problem with that battle was that we played in an battlefield as large as his room, so he could skirt out of range every turn to fire at it. But still, one hit is all you need. I've never fought another Space Marine force, but a Master of The Forge would also present a danger to a Land Raider if geared with a conversion beamer. A shot in the 42-72" range yields a S10 AP1 Heavy Blast. If a MoTF is given a bike that makes him all the deadlier in counter Raider tactics.
> 
> So aside from that, like *TheKingElessar* said, spamming melta, lance and getting a strong melee weapon in range is all you can do. Depending on the variant, it could be easier than one may think. But caution should be used if you want to have anything left over.


I don't think it's foolish at all... What are assault terminators going to take out in a game, 2-4 units? Feed them crap you don't care about. Go second and deploy accordingly. That unit is woefully expensive and will have a tough time making its points back. IF I do shoot them, generally I will drive a rhino up with meltas inside, pop the hatch and try to stop it. Usually this results in the guys inside being sacrificed but meh. Still though, even a few smart moves can keep that unit out of the game for a decent part of it.



Someguy said:


> As with many others, I tend to just let land raiders through. I can generally put something like a combat squad in front of the thing so that the assault termies, abaddon or whoever it is don't really achieve a lot, then I shoot them a bunch of times.
> 
> I find a very effective way of resisting an attack is to let bits of it through, then counter attack and kill them, while knocking out the transports of the supporting units. That way the enemy shows up a bit at a time and you can generally deal with them easily enough. I'm currently using a mixture of Typhoons and cyclones for the transports and any long ranged stuff that needs doing, with a buch of meltas for when things get close.
> 
> Right now it's very difficult to kill a smoked land raider at range, and not really difficult at all to melt one up close. It makes sense to do the latter.


Sorta what I was aiming at as well, just let em go... Try to bait them somewhere with a throwaway unit.


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## Gigantor (Jun 21, 2009)

Yes I shoot them! I have 2 veteran squads in chimeras w/ 3 meltas a piece. And great for hitting the tank and the termies that are usually inside. But I do usually wait until the second turn because killing rhinos & razorbacks is just so much more satisfying for me.


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

I'm surprised so many people advocate ignoring the LR and it's cargo. In objective missions they might not kill your whole army, but who cares when they can contest so many objectives thus winning the game. In KP games every fodder unit you sacrifice is painful. 

Ignoring a LR and it's contents has never been an option for me. You need a plan to deal with them.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Ignoring them is the plan to deal with them- doesnt mean you let them survive the game, just that you dont focus on them first.
An LR filled with a nasty unit and maybe a character will come in at 450-650pts, if you can hold them up for 2 turns once they reach you with a couple of fodder units of ~50pts each then that means at 2k you have 1900pts to tackle ~1500pts of the enemies army. After knobbling the rest of the forces you can then turn and surround the elite core that was the LR.

This is exactly how I deal with daemons in fantasy- I cant deal straight up with big units of plaguebearers, but I am fast enough to throw some speedbumps in their way while the rest of my army slaughters everything else.. leading to an endgame of 1 unit surrounded by 4-5 which gradually turns in my favour. If anything it is much easier to do this in 40k.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I would only bother shooting it with a P-Whip, because you get to roll 2 d6 and pick the highest for penetration, and it is AP1. Otherwise I don't bother and just pop it in CC with the Deceiver (penetrating hits on 6+ on 2d6, with 5 attacks).


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Tim/Steve said:


> Ignoring them is the plan to deal with them- doesnt mean you let them survive the game, just that you dont focus on them first.
> An LR filled with a nasty unit and maybe a character will come in at 450-650pts, if you can hold them up for 2 turns once they reach you with a couple of fodder units of ~50pts each then that means at 2k you have 1900pts to tackle ~1500pts of the enemies army. After knobbling the rest of the forces you can then turn and surround the elite core that was the LR.


And this is exactly why I have a very hard time justifying the points for a land raider

Nothing like putting 25-30% of your list in one basket. If the enemy can either stall or just get the hell out of my way, then I'm playing with one arm tied behidn my back

As for objective missions, I'm much more worried about tacticals in rhinos than land raiders.

Ok, sure, you can contest an objective or two with 500+ points worth of models, but you can *claim* an objective with a 5-man combat squad in a throwawy rhino, and you can move it balls out wihtout feeling guulty about wasting its shooting.

I won't wholly ingore them, but I'll throw my combat squad tag ends at them. I'll risk five marines with a melta and a fist in a rhino to stop a raider, but my lascannons and missile launchers are going to be blowing the shit out of the rest of your army


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## godzy (Jun 5, 2008)

> As for objective missions, I'm much more worried about tacticals in rhinos than land raiders.


what about tacticals in a land raider? I have one, besides my termie van, and they rock.
unless of cours you get immobilized too far off the objective- damn AV 14 all around tank-bunker, that isn't water proof! lol


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## raverboi (Jan 15, 2009)

though i cannot tell you fellas how many times my tactical squad lascannons get a lucky potshot into a land raider and make it explode

joy


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

godzy said:


> that isn't water proof! lol


Actually in the fluff, Land Raiders are amphibious vehicles.


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

It would obviously depend on what its carrying, and its usually a heavy load. I wouldnt exactly hunt it, but I would be cautious all the time, not hard to loose a LR, but keep it in mind when planning out later turns. Overall, I'm more worried about a Crusader or Redeemer because I honestly don't know why anyone would take a regular Land Raider anymore, wish Chaos could use a Crusader or Redeemer :ireful2: alas, only in Apoc :mrgreen:

Basically in most of my armies, I'm not normally not carrying enough to deal with Land Raiders if the army also comes with many other vehicles, so I'll do what I can to ignore/stay away from it, but I will shoot if NEEDED.


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## elkhantar (Nov 14, 2008)

I usually don't bother shooting at them. Not at all with my nids, I just swamp the payload with gaunts, and only when there's no more interesting target with my BA. 

Last time I faced one it was the only vehicle on the table and I had 7 multimelta bikes in my list, so... turn 1*boom!*. That said, the bikes were far more helpful by circling around and shooting down his terminators who could never catch up.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Nids really dont have anything that can scratch AV14 currently short of an MC in combat... mebbe through some venom cannons at it to try to stun it but thats really quite a long shot and not going to do much for you anyway.
Just sending a wave or 2 of gaunts are LRs is great, so long as they cant tank shock right through the nasties inside cant get to anything important and who cares if they kill a whole bunch of gaunts (especially if they are WoN).


Sure my zoanthropes will often take pot shots at raiders but only if they have no MEQ targets to destroy with theor S5 AP3 blast


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## Elric of Melnibone (Feb 9, 2007)

Iron Angel said:


> I do what I can to glance them to death with Gauss special rule. Destroyers and HDs are really good for this. Having a LR dump a pile of SM on you is never fun but if I can force them to get out, they'll all be bunched together and I can P whip them. Bye bye, SM.


HD rolling a 6 would penetrate a LR....so not glancing ...true for the normal Destroyers


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Land Raiders are difficult, even with lance weapons.
Almost every game I see two Land Raiders sitting a few inches apart trying to blast eachother with lascannons... when it happens to me, I just roll my predator around and kill stuff with it... the Land Raiders can occupy eachother all game for all I care.
It isn't like I want to get close enough to use my multi-melter after all, since my opponents usually have one as well and if I fail to kill it...


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## Churlton (Nov 23, 2007)

My nightmare is usually SW; maxed-out BC with Wolf lord & Wolf Guard termies, "bling" (talismans) and lots of other good stuff...... against my Sisters.

About the only reliable option is haveing to wait until it is close (no long range stuff at all), then send in a speedbump troop choice with melta. Hopefully I have arranged a crossfire for lots of DG goodness on the contents when the speedbump unit are sliced'n'diced.

My Dominions or Seraphim are far too expensive a unit to throw away on removing the LR only, so I feel that advancing with Fast attack units is not efficient in strategy terms. Hence I have to let it get in close.


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