# Legion Organisation



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

How exactly where the legions organised?

Where they as diverse as chapters are like Space Wolves and Blood Angels?

I'm trying to figure out whether Iron Hands where split into clans, great companies, chapters etc.


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## constantin_valdor (Apr 8, 2011)

More than likely, the word bearers had chapters which then got broke down into companies, the basic format would have been the same but the wording, number of astartes, officer ranks etc would have been different for each legion.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm not sure about the clans in regards to Iron Hands since there's only a limited number of clans on Medusa. Clans in 40k are equal to a company though, but in 30k a great company is equal to a chapter? It's rather confusing.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

At first the legions were all near identical. They were raised all from the emperor's terran forces. The original genesede was pure, sampled and taken from the original primarch genome before the chaos gods touched them. Once the crusades got under way and certain legions adopted other planets as their forward operating bases and started recruiting from them, the cultures and political/military customs of those planets began to shape and change the individual legions quite a bit.

The big changes came when the Primarchs were found and started to shape their legions into their image. The problem is, all of the Primarchs were touched and somewhat tainted by the warp when they were stolen from the creche. Many of the planets that the primarchs grew up on were also tainted by the warp. So, when the legions began to be molded by the tainted primarchs and planets, they became tainted and eventually have moved further and further away from the emperor's divine original plan.

On the organizational side, the Horus Heresy books are our only real clue. They talk about the Legions being separated into "Crusade" forces which were task organized per the requirement of their sectorum of action. I think it is helpful to look at the size and capacity of the ships that carried the Marines and their capacities in order to understand the force structure and organization. It would make sense to use the same squad, company, chapter organization that most of the current space marines now use. On top of this, you need a greater organization. I would say that chapters were then organized into crusade forces that included chapters from possibly different legions or maybe just one, plus guard, titanicus, mechanicus, and naval forces. I don't know that there was a flat command structure over all these pieces, or if the chapters would've been grouped with a commander between the chapter master and the crusade commander, but in some cases it would make sense. There is also mention of a "strike force" sized organization that is task organized and made of multiple companies.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I read that Space Wolves maintained the pre-heresy organisation, albeit on a smaller scale which is why they still have "Great Companies". But I was wondering would these Great Companies in relation to Iron Hands be made up of one entire clan or multiple different clans?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Theres not a whole lot of information on it really. 

We know that the Word Bearers had 100 companies, each with 1000 astartes and split into multiple chapters such as the Serrated Sun.

From what we've seen from the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus, they were simply split into companies, with no exact numbers given for each company or indeed how many companies they had, though it is at least 25. They also of course had the Mournival, the unoffical council of the Primarch and regarded as the four senior captain of the Legion(Abaddon, Aximand, Torgaddon and Loken as of the Heresy) Whilst not officialy higher in rank than the rest of the company captains(Abaddon aside of course being first captain) They were generally seen as above the others and held command over them. 

The Death Guard only had seven great companies, which clearly would have held a very large number of astartes within each. The Death Guard have never been noted as being below the average strength, so each great company could have contained as many as 12,000 astartes. Along with the First Captain the Death Guard also had two other major commanders. The Captain of the second company(Grulgor at the time of the Heresy) held the honorific of Commander, and the captain of the seventh held the title of Battle-Captain(Garro as we know).

The Dark Angels seemed to split into Orders instead of Companies, how many hasn't been said, nor how many astartes were in each. Along with captains in charge of the orders their also appeared to be other titles such as Paladin, presumably the equivalent of a company champion. 

The Emperors Children used companies again, but the most senior position within the Legion was a Lord Commander, of which they had two(Eidolon and Vespasian) With the First Captain coming next and then company captains as usual. The Lord Commanders likely had 'x' amount of companies under their command and it seems that the companies could be moved between the two. Again, no numbers on the companies or strength, but bear in mind the Emperors Children were one of the smallest legions, at the very least they had 13 companies.

The Thousand Sons were highly unusual in their organisation. They were splt into Fellowships instead of companies, at first their were 10 fellowships, but after one was decimated, they stayed at 9. There were several ranking structures within the Legion. At the top was obviously Ahriman himself as first captain. Below were the Magister Templi of the five cults of the Legion(Corvidae, Raptora, Pyrae, Pavoni and Athaneans) Being the most powerful pyskers of their respective cult. The rest of the legion were also ranked by their ablity/how powerful they were, known as the Rehati.

The Iron Warriors were split down into Grand Companies, of which their were at least eight, all commanded by a Warmsith. Not really any more detail given than that. But as the legion was heavily spread out across the Imperium due to being used as garrison troops, the structure was probably quite flexible.

The Space Wolves/Vlka Fenryka don't even begin to follow a normal legion structure(incidently as seen before, neither did the Thousand Sons, their largest rivals) were split into thirteen Great Companies, each commanded by a Jarl(Wolf Lord). The Iron/Wolf/Rune priests then came next. The rest of the company is split down into packs, with no consistent number. And yes they still operate like this in the 41st millenium, just on a smaller scale(and without the 13th company)

None of the other legions seem to deviate from a standard organisation. Though they Ultramarines were also split into chapters(again like one of their largest rivals). The White Scars and Iron Hands would have been called Tribes or Clans respectively, but nothing is noted to say they were unsual in organisation other than the naming.

No point even trying to speculate on how the Alpha Legion were organised.

Also for the most part all the Primarchs seemed to have an equerry, Khan, Maloghurst, Amon for exampe. Whilst naturally holding seniority over most of the legion, its unclear if they were above, on par or below the first captains or legion specific roles such as the Mournival.

Hope that helps


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Hmm its quite helpful. I just read this on Lexicanum though:


_"During the Great Crusade, the Iron Hands were engaging a war of extermination against the Diasporex. One Iron Hand captain known as Balhaan failed in his duty in destroying a small fleet of theirs due to treachery on their path. Though Ferrus Manus was tempted to take Balhaan's head off for his failure, his Equerry advised him to instead place an Iron Father in joint command of the Ferrum as punishment."_

Ferrum = Great Company or Company? Where does Clans fall in to this then?

What would be in command of the "great company" for an Iron Hands? 

I'm using a Techmarine model as the basis for my guy in charge using the chapter master rules and I'm guessing an Iron Father would in place of a chaplain and a captain would simply be a captain, but what would the overall commander be called?


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

The Ferrum is an Iron Hands ship that Balhaan was in command of, one of the fastest ships in the fleet at that.

As for the structure of the Iron Hands, i've not seen any mention of them having great companies etc. Theres not a whole lot of information. Iron Fathers were in place of chaplains yes and there was a First Captain as usual, beyond that i don't know.


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## Dînadan (Mar 7, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Ferrum = Great Company or Company? Where does Clans fall in to this then?


It's the name of one of the Iron Hands' ships.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Doh should of realised that >.<


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