# Legion of dissapointment :(



## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

I just read Legion and was looking forwards to it as it was supposed to be one of the best HH books but it honestly was a dissapointment 
It felt like it was building and building and building and then...the book ended with one of the worst endings of any HH book.
To me it felt like a John Grammaticus or a Cabul or a Imperial Guard book as next to no Marines are in it  

Your thoughts?

Also, Thousand sons was amazing!!! Replaced Fulgrim as my fave HH book


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## CursedUNTILLDEATH (Apr 25, 2010)

I didnt like it either. The ending was kinda like a "thats it?" momnet. As for Thousand sons and Fulgrim i am torn between the two. Both are great books but i can see TS being a little more contrivesol than Fulgrim. G.Mcneil is brillant and those books are shining examples (Storm of Iron to).


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

It's my favourite HH novel, I know it's called Legion but I don't understand why people think every HH novel should be about the Astartes. The Heresy engulfed the entire Imperium and the Astartes were just 1 force amongst numerous others, of course they had aprominent part due to the Primarchs but the Imperial Army, Mechanicus and Collegia Titanicus deserve a look in as well.

What I loved about this book was how it showed the subterfuge and secrecy the Alpha Legion operates under, completely different from any other Legion and how they achieve their aims by the manipulation of others rather than an application of brute force.


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## Captain Stillios (Mar 8, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> What I loved about this book was how it showed the subterfuge and secrecy the Alpha Legion operates under, completely different from any other Legion and how they achieve their aims by the manipulation of others rather than an application of brute force.


I understand this was what it was trying to do but it just confused me


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

_A Thousand Sons_ is the best Heresy novel, everything about it was amazing. As for _Legion_ I haven't gotten it yet, I will soon though, and I think im going to love it.


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## the.alleycat.uk (Jun 11, 2009)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I diagree, Legion was an awesome insight into the Alpha Legion and how they operate. Astartes only got involved when they felt they had to. It is probably my favourate HH book to date.

On the other-hand I found Fulgrim to be pretty dull and I'm a huge fan of the Emperors Children.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Personally _Legion_ is my favourite Heresy Novel by far, with _Horus Rising_ and _A Thousand Sons_ in second and third place respectively.



Baron Spikey said:


> What I loved about this book was how it showed the subterfuge and secrecy the Alpha Legion operates under, completely different from any other Legion and how they achieve their aims by the manipulation of others rather than an application of brute force.


Totally agree. I think that the tactics and methods of the Alpha Legion were best portrayed through the eyes of the Imperial Army rather than solely from the Astartes themselves, it gives an outsider perspective, helps to keep a veil of mystery and secrecy to their actions, and really emphasises the extent to which their subterfuge stretches.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

_Legion_ is my 2nd fav HH book after _Fulgrim_. i loved the smoke and mirrors approach to writing the Alpha Legion. i also loved that once the book ended you still dont fully understand the Alpha Legion, which is exaclty what they would want  i think the only way Abnett could have achieved such secrecy was to tell the story from the IG POV. which he did. some people just arnt happy unless a book is 'tell all' where as im happy to take my Alpha Legion with a spoonfull of unknowing.


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## Graf Spee (Apr 29, 2009)

Brother Subtle said:


> _Legion_ is my 2nd fav HH book after _Fulgrim_. i loved the smoke and mirrors approach to writing the Alpha Legion. i also loved that once the book ended you still dont fully understand the Alpha Legion, which is exaclty what they would want  i think the only way Abnett could have achieved such secrecy was to tell the story from the IG POV. which he did. some people just arnt happy unless a book is 'tell all' where as im happy to take my Alpha Legion with a spoonfull of unknowing.


i second that. it had to be written from an outside legion view in order to put emphasis on the alphas character. the first appearance was just so very stylish, sacrificing ig big scale to achieve a decisive victory without anyone knowing they were actually coming. i also love that all astartes refer to themselves as alpharius in the first place. being one and all. 
but also i have to admit that the ending was bit hasty for my liking. everything else was just how i imagined them pre-heresy like..


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## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

Captain Stillios said:


> I just read Legion and was looking forwards to it as it was supposed to be one of the best HH books but it honestly was a dissapointment
> It felt like it was building and building and building and then...the book ended with one of the worst endings of any HH book.
> To me it felt like a John Grammaticus or a Cabul or a Imperial Guard book as next to no Marines are in it
> 
> ...


This was not only the worst book of the series, it is one of the worst books I have ever read. It is the only book that was like homework for me to read, but I read it because I want to have read all the HH books.

1000 sons and Fulgrim - oh ya, def. ass kicking books. 1000 sons showed that despite a lapse in some so so work after Fulgrim they still had some great stories coming.

**SPOILER**

Ok, Alphrius is an idiot. There is no "well, he may have been right" or noble, or whatever - he was wrong. He trusted xenos to tell him to turn against his father... JACKASS! Here is how it should have gone:

Xeno scum: Alpharius, you must turn against your father and join Chaos so that the human race can be destroyed sooner rather than later, so we xenos can inherit the galaxy!

Ka-Klick: BANG BANG BANG!


While primarchs like Magnus and Fulgrim had dramatic falls from grace, Alpharius and his legion took the short bus to rebellion.






And before you try to justify this dumb asses decision, if he and his legion hadn't turned that would have tipped the balance to the Emp's side. Imagine how the invasion of terra would have gone if an entire other legion were there with TWO more primarchs. Horus would have never stood a chance, and the emp. would not be the corpse king he is now.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

A heresy wouldnt be fun if people didnt make a few mistakes and condem the whole galaxy


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Zooey72 said:


> Ok, Alphrius is an idiot. There is no "well, he may have been right" or noble, or whatever - he was wrong. He trusted xenos to tell him to turn against his father... JACKASS! Here is how it should have gone:
> 
> Xeno scum: Alpharius, you must turn against your father and join Chaos so that the human race can be destroyed sooner rather than later, so we xenos can inherit the galaxy!
> 
> Ka-Klick: BANG BANG BANG!


That is assuming Alpharius gave into the demands of the Cabal. Who is to say he did? 



Zooey72 said:


> And before you try to justify this dumb asses decision, if he and his legion hadn't turned that would have tipped the balance to the Emp's side. Imagine how the invasion of terra would have gone if an entire other legion were there with TWO more primarchs. Horus would have never stood a chance, and the emp. would not be the corpse king he is now.


Possibly. But technically it would have be ONE more Primarch not two. 

But ultimately we don't know what Alpharius' true motives during the Heresy were.


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## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> That is assuming Alpharius gave into the demands of the Cabal. Who is to say he did?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, there could be the OUTSIDE possibility that he is on the emps side. I have speculated that the emp. may have had the entire HH planned to end up the way it did so that he would be in the situation the 40k universe is in now. If enough people think he is a god - BLAM, he is a god (slannesh). Although I always thought they would bring back the chaos god Malal in the form of the emp. If Alparius was somehow in on this - than ok, his actions may be justified. But I doubt it, I stick with "he and his legion took the short bus to rebellion". Still, given the info gathering premise of the Legion it ins't impossible.

But had he remained loyal it would have been more than just his legion and him helping the emp. I can't remember which, but didn't he delay another legion from getting to terra? I can't remember which one off hand. But that being the case TWO more legions on terra when Horus landed! Horus would have been a fool to even land on the planet against odds like that.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I did enjoy _Legion_, but it's nowhere near the top of my list of fave HH books. It played out like a prologue to a bigger story, so hopefully we'll see the Alpha Legion return in another novel. As we know they have more to go in the development of the Heresy. If they don't get another one, I feel _Legion_ will be rendered pointless.


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

i actually loved this book, a lot of us have been spoiled with the previous HH books which are filled with Astartes POVs and loads of action and killing and the like. but that is not how the Alpha Legion operates at all and i feel like Legion portrayed them perfectly, of course when the XX legion is present you wont see them much, or even at all, because of how they fight and i feel that people expected them to react much in the same way the Luna Wolves had or the Emperor's Children have in the other books to name a few. 

so when said people read Legion they are let down because the way the Alpha's fight was not what they expected. i enjoyed this book very much and it is up there with Fulgrim and A Thousand Sons in my opinion


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## Cyrion (Apr 17, 2010)

_Legion_ is still my favourite HH book, nothing has yet to surpass it in my eyes. As a Word Bearers fan, I hope _The First Hereti_c will do the trick.


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## Turkeyspit (Jun 11, 2010)

I wanted to like this book. I did. At first I thought it was an interesting spin on my view of what a Space Marine was. Forget storming the ramparts and crushing ork heads barehanded, these Space Marines defeat you with strategy and intrigue.

Alas, the book did sort of drag its feet, and it seemed to try too hard to remind the reader the 'it' knows something 'we' don't.

I also struggled with the ending. I initially thought it was cool, but after stewing on it for a while, I struggle to understand how an Astartes Legion would make the choice it did based upon a fortelling by a group of Xenos.

One of the HH books that I doubt I will re-read anytime soon.

And Thousand Sons was indeed a very fun read.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

DA had to simplify it i suppose, otherwise we'd have another book on the alpha legion deciding wether to trust them or not!


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Turkeyspit said:


> I also struggled with the ending. I initially thought it was cool, but after stewing on it for a while, I struggle to understand how an Astartes Legion would make the choice it did based upon a fortelling by a group of Xenos.


If I may quote myself from another thread to set up my response here:


Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The Cabal offered Alpharius two options:
> 
> 1) if he joined Horus - The Emperor would be killed and Horus would take over the Imperium, but he would be racked by guilt and would purge the entire human species in a few generations. Chaos would burn brighter than ever but would then die out with humanity.
> 
> ...





Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Given those two options, im personally convinced Alpharius chose option three. Or rather made an option three for himself viable.
> 
> The true extents and purposes of option three are not known currently, but I think its within his character to have shunned the first two and made a third.
> 
> And by the way, Chapter 7 of Legion is a magical chapter and really gives us a lot of insight into the Alpha Legion's philosopy, which then also helps us to determine their ultimate course of action.


The ending of _Legion_ only *implies* that Alpharius chose the above option one. The actual wording in the book is:



'+ It is perfectly simple, Omegon. The Alpha Legion must side with the rebels. You must ensure that Horus wins. +

'Never!' snarled Omegon.
'It is unthinkable!' Alpharius yelled.' (Page 394).

'Alpharius raised a hand for silence. He looked at his twin, and they stared into each other's eyes for a long time.' (Page 397).

'So what I do, autarch, from this moment on, I will do for the Emperor.' (Page 398).

'Alpharius glanced at his twin. 'If we are to prevail in the task ahead of us,' said Omegon, 'we must be secure and committed. We can not let our hand be seen too early, or have our undertaking betrayed. *Secrecy is, as always, our most potent weapon.*' (Page 399).

'For the Emperor,' said Alpharius, and pulled the trigger.' (Page 409).


And that is all we have to deduce what path the Alpha Legion chose following the viewing of the Acuity. Personally (as I said above), I hold to the theory that they forged a third option for themselves. Knowing that the Heresy was imminent, they had to *seemingly* make a decision and appease the Cabal. A logical theory would to be that they seemingly joined the ranks of Horus to undo his campaign from within (perhaps peaking with the theory that the Alpha Legion were the ones who lowered the shields on the _Spirit_ during the Siege of Terra), and trust that the Emperor could triumph.

Indeed, Alpharius' character also lends strength to this argument. We know that Alpharius hates unknowns, and desires to be in complete control of a situation. What better way to do this than to infiltrate Horus' ranks and bring down the traitor from within. I cannot simply take the implication at face-value and conclude that the Alpha Legion did exactly what the Cabal wished them to, it would seem very out of character in my opinion, but always remember that _Legion_ never explicity says that they do.


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## Roninman (Jul 23, 2010)

Legion was my favourite HH book until i read Thousand Sons. Legion had so much totally different than other books so far before. This whole secrecy of Alpha Legion was fachinating me as reader through whole book. Also Grammaticus, Imperial army regiments and Lucifer blacks were really interesting.


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## unixknight (Jul 26, 2010)

Khorne's Fist said:


> I did enjoy _Legion_, but it's nowhere near the top of my list of fave HH books. It played out like a prologue to a bigger story, so hopefully we'll see the Alpha Legion return in another novel. As we know they have more to go in the development of the Heresy. If they don't get another one, I feel _Legion_ will be rendered pointless.


This. If another part of the story of the Alpha Legion comes out I'll be eager to read it and have it strengthen the story, otherwise it'll feel a bit empty.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I didn't really like the three books right after _Fulgrim_. It might have been because _Fulgrim_ was pretty awesome that it made the other three including _Legion_ feel like a depression to me. 

I wasn't a big fan of _Legion_ myself. But it what it is, and it brought some light to the Alpha Legion for why they joined Heresy. I was looking forward to seeing some of their battle stratedgy besides for their infamous infliteration. Much like their instance at Tesstra Prime. Would have liked to see some tension between Alpharuis and Omegon with Guilleman. Saying that, Legion was probably one of my least liked books but not worst as it was well written. Just thought it needed more content.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I wasnt a big fan of Legion, it just didnt hold my attention as much as some of the the others in the series (Mechanicus is still my favorite of all the books). Saying that I dont think there was anything wrong in approcahing the story from a non marine point of view.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Legions is without a doubt my favourite book aswell. It showed the Alpha Legion to be one of the most interesting Legions around with how they operate. And the Alpharius/Omegon twist was one of the better revelations of the HH series. The decision at the end of the book changes alot about how you can percieve the AL in modern day 40k. 

I personally found the Decent of Angels to be the worst HH book, i really didnt take to it. And i seem to be in the minority in that im not a huge fan of Thousand Sons. True it was a very good book, good insight into Magnus and of course getting to see the desolation of Prospero. But i couldnt stand how 'overpowered' they made the Thousand Son astartes, at times it just felt silly at how much power they could wield. More on this in the thread ive made about this


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I personally dont like Legion. I have nothing against novels that doesnt contain Astartes, but the regular human characters I simply dont like. But as you guys said, its awesome to see the Alpha Legion operate. 

As many others have said, Fulgrim and A Thousands is currently my 2 favorites Im torn between as those display those that fall into corruption from within without knowing it and when I got to the parts when Fulgrim kills that remenbrancer and the love of his life commites suicide, I cried on the inside.


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## Xenocide (Aug 19, 2010)

Zooey72 said:


> **SPOILER**
> 
> Ok, Alphrius is an idiot. There is no "well, he may have been right" or noble, or whatever - he was wrong. He trusted xenos to tell him to turn against his father... JACKASS! Here is how it should have gone:
> 
> ...


_Legion_'s ending enrages me with the fiery, white-hot passion of a thousand suns going supernova. And, for the salvation of his warp-bound soul, Mr. Abnett should be confined to an inquisition excrutiator indefinitely.

The Cabal's proposition: "Hello leader in a crusade implacably dedicated to the extermination or enslavement of all sentient alien life*. How would you like to betray your father, your brothers, and your entire species, so we - the xeno filth you're sworn to eradicate - can live free from the taint of Chaos?"

Is it plausible that a Primarch would accept this offer? Is it even remotely plausible that a Primarch would consider this scenario for a fraction of a nano-second? Yet the drama of the ending hinges on the fact that, yes, Alpharius Omegon may well have agreed with The Cabal's strategy. If I sat down and tried - really, really tried - to come up with a less plausible reason for the Alpha Legion joining the Heresy I couldn't do it.



* Consider the "suffer not the alien to live" attitude taken towards the Laer, Megarachnids, and Diasporax. Also the deep suspicion the Interex is treated with due to their liberal relationship with xenos.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Xenocide said:


> Is it even remotely plausible that a Primarch would consider this scenario for a fraction of a nano-second?


The 17 other (known) Primarchs? No. Alpharius Omegon? Yes. 

_Legion_ goes a way to explain that Alpharius is the most pragmatic Primarch, and Alpharius himself even reveals that he and his Legion do not share the Emperor's optimistic dream of a united Galaxy under humanity's rule. They believe the Great Crusade is inherently flawed, and ultimately impossible to achieve. 

'Any political ambition that is inherently impossible to achieve is ultimately corrupting.' - Captain Thias Herzog of the 2nd Company Alpha Legion.

_Legion_ also goes on to imply that Alpharius accepts the Cabal's prophecy and joins Horus because he knows that the Emperor's greatest wish is to defeat Chaos and Alpharius sees this as the only way to do it.

Now im not saying that Alpharius did give into the demands of the Cabal without question or even that he did, but there is enough wiggle room here to justify Alpharius doing so. If anything, I would re-read Chapter 7 of _Legion_, it really gives a philosophical insight into the Alpha Legion's views on the Great Crusade, Humanity and Warfare aswell as proving Alpharius' pragmatism, which ultimately *can* be used to at least in part justify his Legion joining the Heresy via the wishes of the Cabal.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Graf Spee said:


> i second that. it had to be written from an outside legion view in order to put emphasis on the alphas character. the first appearance was just so very stylish, sacrificing ig big scale to achieve a decisive victory without anyone knowing they were actually coming. i also love that all astartes refer to themselves as alpharius in the first place. being one and all.
> but also i have to admit that the ending was bit hasty for my liking. everything else was just how i imagined them pre-heresy like..


Completely agree.
It couldn't be done another way, and we had to follow the agent of the Cabal
Couldn't really have an unexplainable tadaaaaaa moment.

Also i think he had to end it on a cliffhanger, will he wont he, otherwise that would be the alpha legion wrapped up in one book.

And xenocide, it wasn't that it was more, the safety of the galaxy is in your hands, horus must win for the sake of the universe.

Thats more difficult for anyone to ignore. We have seen every primarch to be a prideful being.

Magnus, blinded by pride
Horus lead by pride
Leman Russ enraged by pride
Fulgrim the epitomy of pride

It seems to be there downfall, and I know someone saying the galaxy was in my hands would make me stop and think

Really want to read legion again now :biggrin:


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## BrainFreeze (Oct 9, 2008)

I loved Legion, but the key thing that stands out in my mind is what would have happined had they faught against Horus in the heresy.

How do you think Alpharius/Omegon would have reacted if they had been members of the imperium when Papa Smurf decided to break apart the legions..


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Well I finished _Legion_ a while ago and ill give my thoughts on it. Ill admit that it was a great addition to Horus Heresy and definitely in the top 5, but... I would not say its the best, its probably the 5th best HH book.

I expected more from the Alpha Legion then the Primarch and two captains, I would have liked to see more of the Alpha Legion in characterisation then relying on their human agents to gain an insight into their methods. Ill admit that they were interesting but I felt the Alpha Legion was underused in this book, the humans seemed to be the stars rather then the Space Marines.

The Nurthene and primitive Chaos was interesting, as was the Imperial Army, but at times I felt they overshadowed the Alpha Legion for control of the book and that shouldn't have happened. If this were a novel about the Imperial Army i'd have next to no problems with it but its not, its Alpha Legion, but at times I felt like it wasn't.

Alpharius and Omegon were very interesting though, and the best part of the novel for me. Two bodies, one soul. I wonder if The Emperor knew about this, because the other Primarchs certainly didn't. Though their reactions would be interesting, learning of the Twin Primarchs. Plus their pragmatism and refusal to be swept up into imperial propaganda of humanity's manifest destiny to perfection and ruling the stars was refreshing, every army has cynicists who don't believe in the propaganda and indoctrination. I'd be one of them, and the Alpha Legion are some of them as well.

I'd say that _Legion_ warrants a *7.5/10* or *8/10* but any further then that and i'd be pushing it beyond limits. Its no _A Thousand Sons_ or _Nemesis_ but its a solid HH entry, and in that a great book. Just not what I expected.

Oh and to clarify my favourite HH novels are in order, the following.

1. _A Thousand Sons_ - Obviously, its just that good. But _The First Heretic_ may unseat the HH titan.

2. _Nemesis_ - The detective element and assassins were a side of the Heresy I never expected to see, plus Spear was awesome, one of my favourite characters.

3. _Fulgrim_ - The very first Warhammer novel I ever read, it will always be a personal favourite of mine.

4. _False Gods_ - Horus's struggle against failure and his fall from grace was excellently portrayed.

5. _Legion_ - On the whole a good novel, but not what I expected. Hope to see more of the Alpha Legion, in a wider capacity.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I agree that Legion couldnt have been written from another perspective. It had to be shown from the Guardsman view to fully grasp the manipulations of the Alpha Legion and how they use the guard to further their purposes. Although i did like how they still had some compassion, such as when they send a few marines to minimise the decoy guardsman casualties and that they rescue their agents.

I also find Alpharius Omegons view refreshing. All the other Primarchs thus far have seemed to be blinded to the flaws of the crusade and dont seem to question it or the Emperor. Its why Alpharius and Omegon are now pretty much my favourite primarchs as like i said before they just seem to have that much more depth and layers. I can see why they made the decision to join Horus for the greater good.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

BrainFreeze said:


> How do you think Alpharius/Omegon would have reacted if they had been members of the imperium when Papa Smurf decided to break apart the legions..


Probably would have just ignored Guilliman as he always had done (I loved that bit in _Legion_!) 



Lord of the Night said:


> I expected more from the Alpha Legion then the Primarch and two captains, I would have liked to see more of the Alpha Legion in characterisation then relying on their human agents to gain an insight into their methods. Ill admit that they were interesting but I felt the Alpha Legion was underused in this book, the humans seemed to be the stars rather then the Space Marines.


Thats the whole point though. It wouldn't have had anywhere near the same effect if the Alpha Legion's tactics, abilities and techniques would have been shown mostly from their own perspective. Showing it from the Imperial Army's perspective really emphasised just how covert and underhand the Alpha Legion's methods were, if it was shown from the Astartes' perspective, it just wouldn't have seemed so all-encompassing. Showing it from the Imperial Army's perspective also emphasised the Alpha Legion's extensive use of operatives to achieve their goals rather than Astartes themselves.

When the Alpha Legion engaged in a campaign they didn't just charge in all guns blazing like most other Legions. They established spy-networks, intelligence-cirlces, and dispatched countless operatives into the field to gather information. They striked indirectly, and used Astartes only when necessary, using misinformation and subtle tactics to break down the enemy. If we had followed the Alpha Legion throughout the Nurth campaign from the beginning of _Legion_ it would have dispelled most of the mystery and subtleness of their tactics and methods. Thats my opinion on the matter anyway, and _Legion_ firmly remains my favourite Heresy novel by a clear gap.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Probably would have just ignored Guilliman as he always had done (I loved that bit in _Legion_!)
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure, with two primarchs they could probably split quite easily though i must admit im not sure they'd want to. It would seriously dent the subterfuge and mystery of the legion.
> ...


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