# Special Rule Changes



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Hit & Run has changed, you will have to take a leadership test at the end of assault in order to leave CC

Feel No Pain has changed, you will not be able to use it if the wound was caused by AP1 or AP2 weapons, in addition to weapons that cause instant death.


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

The change to FNP absolutely sucks balls.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

That's a bitch about the FNP.... it's kind of accurate with hit and run though.... Good leadership required for an advanced tactic....
And where did you get this news darklove?


----------



## Jase (Nov 4, 2007)

darklove said:


> Hit & Run has changed, you will have to take a leadership test at the end of assault in order to leave CC
> 
> Feel No Pain has changed, you will not be able to use it if the wound was caused by AP1 or AP2 weapons, in addition to weapons that cause instant death.


it's not a leadership test for hit and run, it's a initiative test.

and yes the change to FNP is true.


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

<sniffles> Poor Mephesiton has more to fear now.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

Galahad said:


> <sniffles> Poor Mephesiton has more to fear now.


tis a sad day for mephiston... Now he can't charge straight forward and take out everything that touches him...


----------



## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

darklove said:


> Hit & Run has changed, you will have to take a leadership test at the end of assault in order to leave CC
> 
> Feel No Pain has changed, you will not be able to use it if the wound was caused by AP1 or AP2 weapons, in addition to weapons that cause instant death.


Yeah the FNP was kinda needed because Nurgle could take plasma to the face and bounce back. At least its still good versus Tzentch bolter shells.


----------



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Lord Reevan said:


> tis a sad day for mephiston... Now he can't charge straight forward and take out everything that touches him...



No, he can still do that...he just can't laugh off lascannon hits to the face anymore...he'll just have to take a wound.


----------



## Druchii in Space (Apr 7, 2008)

Aye, my Nurgle boys are glancing at my other halfs Plasma Loyalists with a little more concern now.. curses.


----------



## Jase (Nov 4, 2007)

i'd like to know how necron players feel about the rumours that WBB will be changed to FNP now.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Thankful that the Codex won't be changing for quite a few years 
I read it in the 5th edition book today.


----------



## Druchii in Space (Apr 7, 2008)

I suppose the only positive might be if WBB was dropped, theres a good chance Phase Out would go as well, the third phase they've been talking about occurs, where enough Necrons have awoken that they can commit troops without fear (if thats the right word) of losses.


----------



## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

Jase said:


> i'd like to know how necron players feel about the rumours that WBB will be changed to FNP now.


i wish there was a better way to do WWB rolls, but the problem with that is theres no curbstomp option in CC. 

it sucks when you get the squad down to 2 models, there are often situations where your fist guy cant attack cause theres no valid targets left or something, theres only 2 necrons left and you don't get half your attacks for some reason, then they all get back up, just after the fist guy lost his chance to attack.

The option for fistguys or powerweapons to slaughter ones that were just knocked down with normal weapons would fix that problem.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Necrons that are lieing down are actually counted as being 'dead', so there is technically nothing to hit. Leaving them on the table is just an easy way to see which need to roll without getting confused.


----------



## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Yeah but why can't he use his fist like a pastle and mortar and grind the necrons into dust before they stand up? By which I mean you should be able to commit extra attacks to downed necrons to "finish them off" thereby denying them their WBB, but losing your attacks in the process.

Edit: before you come back in with the rules, I'm taking a very fluff orientated view here, so yeah, just throwing it all into the bubbling cauldron of joy that is this forum.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

From reading the fluff it is very much like Terminator 2 (the movie), in that all the tiny dust bits reform into the warrior - living metal is actually quite close to the ancient alchemical reference for mercury.


----------



## Tanrel (May 8, 2008)

Woa!!! Thats awesome!!! That would be scary as a guardsmen, they'd be like: "Wait! I just killed that thing!!!" ^_^


----------



## CommanderDuskstorm (Jan 31, 2008)

I don't like the feel no pain rule change, if they change it they should change the name of it to "feel ALMOST no pain". Personally I don't think it was overpowered by any means, and I say that as a player who plays armies on both sides of the fence. I'd like to see them change it so you get FNP against EVERYTHING, that would be true FNP.


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

CommanderDuskstorm said:


> I don't like the feel no pain rule change, if they change it they should change the name of it to "feel ALMOST no pain". Personally I don't think it was overpowered by any means, and I say that as a player who plays armies on both sides of the fence. I'd like to see them change it so you get FNP against EVERYTHING, that would be true FNP.


The difference between what you can use fnp against and what you cannot are the difference between debilitating injuries and lethal ones. Feel no pain is good only against debilitating wounds.


----------



## Coffeemug (Jan 4, 2008)

Agreed, I always thought it was weird that FNP worked against things that could vaperise a tank or melt a human into slag. It makes sense that a marine could resist las gun and bolter wounds, but not las cannon, plasma guns, bright lances, and starcannons.


----------



## LEGION3000 (Jun 9, 2008)

That makes sense actually. It's Feel no pain, not feel no disintegration.

As for FNP for Necrons instead of WBB, it does streamline things a bit but it looses some of the flavor of the dead robots coming back to life over and over.


----------



## QuietEarth (Aug 18, 2007)

I agree they'll be losing a lot of their Space Undead feel but there is something to be said about an army without nerve endings shrugging off everything you send at them.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Getting rid of WBB and replacing it with FNP would make a huge difference in CC. Necrons killed in CC don't get a chance to hit back using WBB, but with FNP they get to make the roll right away and might then be able to hit back. It would make Necrons more dangerous in CC and help to counter their low I score.

The 5th ed. changes to CC also mean that Necrons can't be consolidated into in order to lock them in CC, so they get a round of rapid fire shooting  up to 40 gauss shots! I think SM and CSM player will have to think twice before sending their dreds in close to the Necrons because they can't just sweep through the whole army anymore.

If they upgrade the Necron army to a fully awakened state then they might get rid of Phase Out. My friends in GW think Necrons might become 'relentless' so they move more slowly but can move and fire 24". But all of this is speculation, of course, because the new Codex is years and years away. Necrons are not a GW priority.

Atm the Necrons and Chaos Daemons are the most interesting armies I think because they have such distinctive characteristics and special rules.


----------



## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

I've played against a Necron who we agreed prior to game starting that WBB was FNP. It was ton more fun that way and things went so much faster. On the downside it was ALOT harder to stop him. Under WBB rules you will only kill things one time per player turn. Under FNP I might have to wound something 3 times in one turn before it actually died. Under WBB a unit that got wiped out might not come back because there were no friendly units around.. FNP could always be used (except for the normal restrictions). Like was stated before.. under WBB there were no attacks back in CC but with FNP there were plenty of attacks back and wiping out a unit in CC was somewhat more difficult due to the above stated reason.

FNP while making Necrons tougher I still think is a step in the right direction. From what I hear they want to get rid of Phase out, switch them over to being Relentless (or Slow & Purposeful for the 4th edition folks) but up the price on them. I had heard mention of the Guass blaster becoming Assualt 1 Rending but I highly doubt that one will happen.


----------



## QuietEarth (Aug 18, 2007)

Can Relentless units Run?


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

I think so, mainly because it does not specifically say that they cannot, which means that Run is unaffected.


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Go to your flgs guys, most will have a copy to preview the 5e rules. Relentless would not slow the necrons at all, in fact would allow them full movement and firing. Slow and purposeful has changed slightly, it grants the model relentless, at the cost of always moving as if in difficult terrain.


----------



## Cinder (Apr 3, 2008)

What I would like to know is, if the Necrons are going to get FNP instead of WBB rolls then what is going to happen to all the wargear and support units that is associated with the WBB rolls (Resurrection Orb, Tomb Spiders, Monolith)? There is a lot of special rules that need to be changed. Will those units be allowed to give a re-roll of the FNP?


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Cinder said:


> What I would like to know is, if the Necrons are going to get FNP instead of WBB rolls then what is going to happen to all the wargear and support units that is associated with the WBB rolls (Resurrection Orb, Tomb Spiders, Monolith)? There is a lot of special rules that need to be changed. Will those units be allowed to give a re-roll of the FNP?


Don't worry, WBB will be around for a long time. 5th ed. does not deal with specific race rules. The Codex will always over rule the core rule book, and they are not planning to change the Codex for quite a few years yet.
All the talk about WBB being replaced by FNP is just that, talk. Someone's little wish list. Pay it no heed.


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Cinder said:


> What I would like to know is, if the Necrons are going to get FNP instead of WBB rolls then what is going to happen to all the wargear and support units that is associated with the WBB rolls (Resurrection Orb, Tomb Spiders, Monolith)? There is a lot of special rules that need to be changed. Will those units be allowed to give a re-roll of the FNP?


more than likely, those will have similar function to what they have now. The resurrection orb will probably allow necrons to make fnp rolls that would normally be disallowed, the tomb spyder and monolith will probably behave in a manner similar to how they currrently do, with a few tweaks to make them more appropriate for 5e. This is just speculation, however and not canon.


----------



## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

Spec it may be, but it's the good kind of spec - the kind backed up by a degree of logic. Replacing WBB with FNP streamlines things, without rendering any currently available units defunct, which would be sure to piss some people off. It's also in keeping with the fluff, since it's essentially just a different way of doing the same thing, and it eliminates the gaping discrepancy in effectiveness between a tac-squad and the equivalent points' worth of Warriors (yes, I know, they've got Gauss weapons, but the flexible equipment for the Marines makes up for that several times over).

And in a related vein, I like the modification to FNP itself. Logical, fluffy, and make Plague Marines somewhat less ludicrously hard.


----------



## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

i think that the hit and run test is fair really. it makes sense. as for the FNP, again, it makes sense, but id reckon of the did apply it to a necron codex they would have to slap some terms and conditions on it to stop them becoming that much harder.

similar to how they limit the WBB to certian circumstances.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

WBB already has limitation that match FNP. Some of the mechanics of WBB make it preferable to WBB, both for fluff reasons and tactical reasons.

Fluff: Necrons self repair and 'come back to life' after taking a wound. If they have FNP then they don't take a wound and they don't self repair, they just become very tough. I think that would spoil the mood/atmosphere of the army - the undead in space.

Tactics: Necrons in CC might all get killed before they have a chance to hit back, and the enemy would move on. As long as there are friendly similar units nearby they get their WBB and join that unit. This is a way for them to get out of CC and of making units bigger. The chance to join with other units can be a life saver if it takes a falling back unit above 50% and lets them rally.

FNP would make Necrons really really hard to kill. It is possible to kill off a squad at the moment and it won't get back up if there are no similar units. With FNP it is going to take you a lot longer to shoot down Necron squads because they roll at the point when the wound would be taken. A Res Orb would allow the FNP roll in all situation, regardless of instand death weapons or AP1/2.


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

darklove said:


> WBB already has limitation that match FNP. Some of the mechanics of WBB make it preferable to WBB, both for fluff reasons and tactical reasons.
> 
> Fluff: Necrons self repair and 'come back to life' after taking a wound. If they have FNP then they don't take a wound and they don't self repair, they just become very tough. I think that would spoil the mood/atmosphere of the army - the undead in space.
> 
> ...


The fnp would also make it easier to kill them all, insted of worrying about how tough they are, try finding ways to maximise your kill tallies without using more troops. Try largge blocks of rapid firing troopers. my plague marines makes mincemeat of my friend's necrons when he allows me to close in and rapif fire at them. I use blocks of seven, usually I am able to bring 2 blocks up against one of his maxed out necron squads. I usually vaporise all but 2-3 in one turn of firing. Take advantqage of rapid fire, it will annihilate most anything it is pointed at.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Son of mortarion said:


> The fnp would also make it easier to kill them all, insted of worrying about how tough they are, try finding ways to maximise your kill tallies without using more troops. Try largge blocks of rapid firing troopers. my plague marines makes mincemeat of my friend's necrons when he allows me to close in and rapif fire at them. I use blocks of seven, usually I am able to bring 2 blocks up against one of his maxed out necron squads. I usually vaporise all but 2-3 in one turn of firing. Take advantqage of rapid fire, it will annihilate most anything it is pointed at.


Wait, so you're saying that you're managing to kill 17 to 18 Necron Warriors in one turn by rapid firing with two units of Plague Marines? :-\ You must be really lucky.


----------



## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

Katie Drake said:


> Wait, so you're saying that you're managing to kill 17 to 18 Necron Warriors in one turn by rapid firing with two units of Plague Marines? :- You must be really lucky.


Perhaps he was rapid firing man portable battlecannons! lol


----------



## aetherguy881 (Apr 7, 2008)

Jase said:


> i'd like to know how necron players feel about the rumours that WBB will be changed to FNP now.


I'm one who does NOT like this change. I feel that it draws away from the army entirely. Necrons will no longer be fun for me. I will put them away for good if they get rid of gauss...

FNP just doesn't sound much like a good rule to me. It just doesn't have the necron _'feel'_ to it.


----------



## sing Sang a song (Jun 10, 2008)

Yes!! Change of WBB with FNP will be a big shock to my friend!! Now I can get rid of that annoying necron model (names jack, why is he named? becaue he never stayed dead) with more chance of success! Well i dont know how i feel about FNP rule change because i never used it, and neither my friends. Oh well i will get some Plague Marines, and try it out~


----------



## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Whilst all this stuff is a good read and certainly gets the necron players fired up, literally its all smoke and mirrors. Any codex changes will have to be waited with baited breath upon the next necron codex which is at least till late 2009, if we are lucky. 

What necron players should be really gearing for is the immediate changes to glancing hits, which is a definite happening thing with 5th ed nearly on our doorsteps. What does this mean ? You may possibly see more heavy destroyers and liths in action for the high strength weapons.

With the new glance table can we still get an immobolise result ? And will 2 of these still result in a vehicle destroyed as per the current 4th ed rules ? If yes is the case then hey, gauss weapons can still kill vehicles in 5th ed... and scarabs with disruptor fields are still kick ass...

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

You can still destroy with glancing hits if you destroy all weapons and immobalise it. The cool thing is that this means the Monolith cannot be destroyed by glancing hits!

-edit- Just thought of 1 thing though: the new AP1 rules mean that you get +1 on the damage chart so with AP1 weapons you could destroy the Monolith on a glancing hit by rolling a 6.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Son of mortarion said:


> The fnp would also make it easier to kill them all, insted of worrying about how tough they are, try finding ways to maximise your kill tallies without using more troops. Try largge blocks of rapid firing troopers. my plague marines makes mincemeat of my friend's necrons when he allows me to close in and rapif fire at them. I use blocks of seven, usually I am able to bring 2 blocks up against one of his maxed out necron squads. I usually vaporise all but 2-3 in one turn of firing. Take advantqage of rapid fire, it will annihilate most anything it is pointed at.


FNP would make it harder to kill the Necrons, not easier. The RezOrb would basically allow FNP against EVERY attack, even AP1 and AP2 and Instant Death.


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

MarzM said:


> Perhaps he was rapid firing man portable battlecannons! lol


no part luck, part plasma:laugh: point being, there is nothing to fear from any force that can be unmanned with basic weaponry, and EVERY force in 40k can be unmanned with basic weapons, some are harder to do this to than others.


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

darklove said:


> FNP would make it harder to kill the Necrons, not easier. The RezOrb would basically allow FNP against EVERY attack, even AP1 and AP2 and Instant Death.


restating what you said is simply being argumentative, state a case or you are just multi posting.

who cares about the rez orb, it ALREADY does that. with fnp once they are down they are down, no BS about killing the same squad to a man in every turn except the first and only keeping 2-3 down per turn.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Son of mortarion said:


> restating what you said is simply being argumentative, state a case or you are just multi posting.
> 
> who cares about the rez orb, it ALREADY does that. with fnp once they are down they are down, no BS about killing the same squad to a man in every turn except the first and only keeping 2-3 down per turn.


I don't think you really get it SoM - so i have been trying to explain it to you in different ways. Your attitude is not very constructive and it sounds like you are trying to shut down discussion from people that do not share your views.

Example of CC with WBB (with the assumption that the the Warriors are eligable) :

10 Necron Warriors get charged and because they have low I they go last. All the Warriors fail their armour saves and are 'dead' - i.e. they lie down. The Necrons are now 'dead' and cannot hit back at their enemies at all. The victorious enemy now consolidates and moves on to whatever else they want to do. At the Start of the Necron player's turn he rolls WBB and has his turn.

Example of CC with FNP (same assumptions):

10 Necron Warriors get charged and because they have low I they go last. All the Warriors fail their armour saves, but they get FNP rolls. The Warriors pass and are now able to hit back at their attackers right away. Both units remain locked in combat, but there is now a much greater chance that the attackers took damage from the Necrons as they were able to strike back.

As CC combat happens in BOTH player's turns, this gives the Necrons twice as many rolls because FNP is rolled in every round of combat whenever a wound would be scored but WBB is only rolled once at the start of the Necron player's turn.

With FNP the Necrons have MANY more chances to stay alive and MANY more chances to hit back.

-edit- p.s. who is accusing who of multi-posting by the way?


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

What makes it easier is they stay dead. so what if they hit back, if you killed them in the first place, they would not hit anyways. with the current rules, they would get up in the next turn and shoot your forces, which is easier for them to rack up kills, bs4 means they hit on a 3+, as opposed to the 4+ in close combat, and they wound on 4+ either way, except they can rapid fire, which gives them double the attacks compared to how they fare in close combat. add to that "guass"/rending, and you have more to fear from their shooting than close combat. 

Now, if they make them t5 as rumors suggest, then they will be much harder to kill, as t5 (compared to the plague marines t4/5) means that it is not only harder to wound, but also harder to instantkill. This will make them less succeptible when combined with fnp. With enough firepower, the new rules won't make them any scarier. Sorry for any ruffled feathers. I just truly believe in my position.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

darklove said:


> FNP would make it harder to kill the Necrons, not easier. The RezOrb would basically allow FNP against EVERY attack, even AP1 and AP2 and Instant Death.


This whole thing with the necron items, have they been actually confirmed or is this just assumption?


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Lord Reevan said:


> This whole thing with the necron items, have they been actually confirmed or is this just assumption?


 purely theoretical at this point, extrapolated what they do currently and figured out what it would do if the fnp change was made.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

So this whole thing is about absolutely nothing solid? dudes calm down. there's no need to get worked up about it.
Now any more definite rule changes? An news on preferred enemy or counter attack?


----------



## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Lord Reevan said:


> So this whole thing is about absolutely nothing solid? dudes calm down. there's no need to get worked up about it.
> Now any more definite rule changes? An news on preferred enemy or counter attack?


All units can counter attack, like a first turn of close combat version of pile-in. All can move up to 6 inches when attacked, those with counter-attack gain +1a as if they charged:laugh:


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

eoooh nice!! anything about preferred enemy? I heard that it was being changed so making Dante better


----------



## chr0899933 (Mar 15, 2008)

Jase said:


> i'd like to know how necron players feel about the rumours that WBB will be changed to FNP now.


Ha, they are getting nerfed big time.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

chr0899933 said:


> Ha, they are getting nerfed big time.


This is all rather off topic now...

WBB is NOT changing in 5th ed.

Lets get back to which Special Rules ARE changing in 5th ed.


----------



## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

As blasts acatter 2d6 minus BS what happens with ordnance that doesn't need LoS? Like Whirlwinds and Basilisks? do they not get a penalty for no LoS?


----------



## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

Jase said:


> i'd like to know how necron players feel about the rumours that WBB will be changed to FNP now.


This Necron player wants blood!!! :angry::ireful2::cray::suicide::aggressive::wild:


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Originally Posted by Jase 
_i'd like to know how necron players feel about the rumours that WBB will be changed to FNP now._

It is NOT changed, and there is no mention of it in 5th ed. rule book. Jase was off-topic. Lets get back on-topic.


----------

