# Demons update, models and rules in the next WD



## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

For both Fantasy and 40k
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=3300030
There was a thread about the leaked video but this is the whole official page.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Why the hell would they make a limited release model thats in the rules.....


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Don't they do that with each big games day thing? I know the only official Wolf Priest model was like that.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

the official update benefited Tzeentch (flamers & screamers) a little; but all of the Slaanesh stuffs are utter crap (other than the looks) Heralds are now terrible (they shouldnt take chariots now) and all of the new stuffs are just lackluster for what they can do, and hit more like a baby's hammer than the sledge that i was expecting.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

So fantasy Daemons can now have Sould Grinders? I am interested.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Fallen said:


> the official update benefited Tzeentch (flamers & screamers) a little; but all of the Slaanesh stuffs are utter crap (other than the looks) Heralds are now terrible (they shouldnt take chariots now) and all of the new stuffs are just lackluster for what they can do, and hit more like a baby's hammer than the sledge that i was expecting.


So what I gathered from your post was "I hate all this stuff and will judge it before seeing the rules and points cost for it". Was that right?

Personally I was considering picking up that massive Chariot because it's on that level of "so crazy it's pretty awesome" in my book but I'm deciding not to since I'd never actually use it.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

i own the WD rules, they are alright. but seeing how all it did was release new content for Slaanesh chariots & revamps flamers & screamers of tzeentch. the chariots are just rather lacklucker.

i would rather have the slaanesh heralds on chariots that we all know of, rather than the 2 or 4 HP open topped chariot vehicle that A) has no guns, B) has rhino armor - which combined make it VERY weak to shooting - and C) if the chariot dies so does the rider.

the Chariot RULES are lackluster; not saying that i wont use them, or own them, but they just do not have any major pluses other than the cool models.

----

edit: this is my opinion on the 40k rules, didnt really read the Fantasy rules.


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## renren (Mar 30, 2010)

Azkaellon said:


> Why the hell would they make a limited release model thats in the rules.....


it says in the discripation of the Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh that if u buy 2 of them u can make the the limited release model.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

I read the rules "insert" in a friend's WD they got tonight. It does seem that for as good as the models are, the new Slaanesh chariots are pretty lackluster. They can hit kind of hard, assuming they rend. But they don't have shooting and only have Rhino armor. I'm thinking it will be shot to pieces before it can attack. They look really cool though.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

So is this a WD SoB style rehash? Or just a more current 'FAQ/Errata'?


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## Pandora (Jun 19, 2012)

I didn't get one but looked carefully through the wrapping. It looks like a mini-dex in addition to the WD magazine. I'm guessing from the other posts here that it just has a couple units updated and a couple new units added.

But given that Daemons just got this WD update, it seems it will be a while before they get a new codex. That's a shame because I was considering Daemons for my next army.


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## Oel (Feb 12, 2012)

So no one is really impressed with the new chariot units? They look so great I've got to have them anyway for my daemons, but I was really hoping for something new and useful 

Sounds like the update on flamers and screamers is decent from what i'm hearing? 

I've got a copy of the new white dwarf waiting for me at my local gaming club, just have not had the time to get it yet, chomping at the bit to read it


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Ok I gotta admit this thing is pretty damn cool looking.

Edit: These guys too, that square base means they are around marine size?


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## xenobiotic (Jun 7, 2008)

I'm a bit iffy about how to interpret the rules on the chariots when it comes to close combat. They specifically mention that if the chariot dies (due to shooting or other effects I would assume) the rider dies (as long as it's an Exalted Allures, doesn't mention that the Herald dies).

However in close combat the chariot rules (in the BRB) mention that the rider can be targeted as if in base contact with any miniature in base contact with the chariot. The Exalted Allures has 1 T3 wound with no armour save (well I guess it is increased from - to 6+ by the chariot rules). And if she dies, I assume the chariot dies as well?

Does this mean that I would have a unit built to charge into close combat (with no other ways do deal damage) that once it gets into close combat have pretty much ONE opportunity to deal damage and then it's dead? And god forbid it manages to assault or get assaulted by something that strikes before it...


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

The while stocks last model is just 2 kits in 1 box, exact same price. Question is if you actually do get 2 of everything or not, do you get 2 oval bases and 2 fantasy bases? If not I'd say just buy 2 normal kits as you get another set of bases that way. I'd think the rules for making the big one is in both kits.

The chariots are actually pretty useless in assault, the thing that makes them special is on the charge with Hammer of Wrath attacks. D6 S4 Ap- Rending attacks per hull point if I remember correctly. The small ones has 2HP and the big one 4HP, so if undamaged that's 2D6 or 4D6 HoW attacks with rending on the charge. You can take a squadron as a Heavy Support choice, so you can have 12D6 HITS. The point of these chariots is to kill as many models as possible before they get to swing back.

Only the Hellflayer is actually "good" in assault as for every unsaved wound you do with the HoW attacks the Alluress gets to make an additional close combat attack.
Interesting note is that only the Hellflayers has this rule, not the other 2 which is odd since the riding characters are all named the same thing. I guess it's to prevent some sort of cheese as the other 2 can be ridden by Heralds of Slaanesh.


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## xenobiotic (Jun 7, 2008)

MadCowCrazy said:


> The while stocks last model is just 2 kits in 1 box, exact same price. Question is if you actually do get 2 of everything or not, do you get 2 oval bases and 2 fantasy bases? If not I'd say just buy 2 normal kits as you get another set of bases that way. I'd think the rules for making the big one is in both kits.


Indeed, there appears to be little use for the big kit unless there is something else in there to make it special to begin with (such as additional parts not included if you "only" buy 2 of the normal kits and put them together as the bigger chariot).



MadCowCrazy said:


> The chariots are actually pretty useless in assault, the thing that makes them special is on the charge with Hammer of Wrath attacks. D6 S4 Ap- Rending attacks per hull point if I remember correctly. The small ones has 2HP and the big one 4HP, so if undamaged that's 2D6 or 4D6 HoW attacks with rending on the charge. You can take a squadron as a Heavy Support choice, so you can have 12D6 HITS. The point of these chariots is to kill as many models as possible before they get to swing back.


Well, it's "ok" really. But not particularly superb. Even a "normal" chariot gets D6 impact hits (at S6 Ap -, albeit) so these only really shine if they reach combat with full set of HPs and get some rending hits in before they succumb to being beaten into tiny pieces by the surviving opposition.

I guess I was just baffled that the Exalted Allures doesn't even get the 5++ save that Daemonettes come with and thus having at least the save increased to a 4++ save due to the chariot. 



MadCowCrazy said:


> Only the Hellflayer is actually "good" in assault as for every unsaved wound you do with the HoW attacks the Alluress gets to make an additional close combat attack.
> Interesting note is that only the Hellflayers has this rule, not the other 2 which is odd since the riding characters are all named the same thing. I guess it's to prevent some sort of cheese as the other 2 can be ridden by Heralds of Slaanesh.


Indeed. In my opinion the one thing that would make me interested in the chariots at the moment (apart from liking the miniatures) is probably the fact that they are pretty cheap in points (the basic ones at least) and it would be pretty fun to run a few just for looks.


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

Beasts of War Backstage 25% off

Beasts of War have a 25% off and Free Shipping on orders over £20 for backstage members, might be worth checking out if you're a member.

I'm not a backstage member  so I can't use this offer. Wayland has a free shipping deal going atm, and 20% off on the new kits.

If I had the 25% off code I'd probably order some minis, but alas I do not


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

xenobiotic said:


> Well, it's "ok" really. But not particularly superb. Even a "normal" chariot gets D6 impact hits (at S6 Ap -, albeit) so these only really shine if they reach combat with full set of HPs and get some rending hits in before they succumb to being beaten into tiny pieces by the surviving opposition.
> 
> I guess I was just baffled that the Exalted Allures doesn't even get the 5++ save that Daemonettes come with and thus having at least the save increased to a 4++ save due to the chariot.


All of the chariots and riders have the Daemon rule. So they do have a 5++ save. If I'm reading the rule right(in BRB), even vehicles get this. Sadly, it's only a 5++. And the Chariot only improves armor saves, not invuls. So it is still pretty fragile, though Fear might be interesting; might let you shred a whole squad. Now with the bonus to armor, a Khorne chariot(vehicle variant) could be nice if it ever comes out.


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

scscofield said:


> So is this a WD SoB style rehash? Or just a more current 'FAQ/Errata'?


Yeh, if that's the case I would be pissed if I played Daemons.


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## GreatUncleanOne (Apr 25, 2011)

Apart from the new models is there any extra units or rules for nurgle?

Doesn't look like it at the moment which doesn't shock me.

It started when nurgle lost its chariot and is continuing.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Digg40k said:


> Yeh, if that's the case I would be pissed if I played Daemons.


Thirded - anyone with the leflet able to answer? I have no real desire to buy White Dwarf to find out - only encourages them to print the crap!


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

In my eyes the only thing that chariot is good for is to paint up and put on display IF that. I would not buy and use that model in a 40k game noooo way.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

1) no new nurgle units (just a new 10man box of plague bearers)

2) my mono slaanesh army got a little worse now.

3) i would be interested in the chariot squadron because its a lot cheaper than the FMCs to field.


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## xenobiotic (Jun 7, 2008)

Archon Dan said:


> All of the chariots and riders have the Daemon rule. So they do have a 5++ save. If I'm reading the rule right(in BRB), even vehicles get this. Sadly, it's only a 5++. And the Chariot only improves armor saves, not invuls. So it is still pretty fragile, though Fear might be interesting; might let you shred a whole squad. Now with the bonus to armor, a Khorne chariot(vehicle variant) could be nice if it ever comes out.


Doh, such a blunder to make, I blame it on the weather. "5++" is immensely better than "-" though, at least for the point cost of the chariot...


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## MadCowCrazy (Mar 19, 2009)

The leaflet update just adds the new chariots and "fixes" some of the problems with Flamers of Tzeentch and Screamers of Tzeentch. Flamers go down to 23pts, get 2 wounds but only has 5++ if I remember correctly.
Screamers I'm not sure about, they got S5 Ap2 close combat attacks, Armour Bane and if they turbo boost over unit it takes D3 hits per screamer or some such. I think they became more expensive.
Someone calculated that the old ones had 19% chance to penetrate AV14, the new ones have 21% I believe.


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## GreatUncleanOne (Apr 25, 2011)

So Tzeentch and Slannesh got some goodies ruleswise but khorne and nurgle lose out.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

So the new rules are just in the White dwarf. If you dont buy white dwarf or come to the game later on when that issue is OOP can you then not use these units as you cant find the rules. Would it not be better to put the new rules in the box with new units.


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## seermaster (Feb 22, 2012)

youll prob be able to find them online but its like the marine and ork flyers they dont have rules in the books or anything just white dwarf


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Reading through the booklet at the tzeentchy stuff I believe that Flamers and Screamers have both become way better.

Flamers being 12 points cheaper and getting 2 wounds apiece now is ace. Also they now count as characters each now which is also nice. Not so fussed by the light drop in invulnerable save nor the fact that they lose the option for bolt in the unit. The 5 points for a champion is nice but not that useful I think.

As for Screamers they got bumped up to 25 points a model but they gained a slashing attack when they turbo boost (D3 S4 hits per Screamer) which is useful against guard/Eldar equivalent. They also now replaced the melta bombs they each had with the much better S5 AP2 close combat attacks. Each Screamer now gets 4 attacks on the charge makes them scary for Termies! They also got 2 wounds apiece but suffer from the mild drop in invulnerable save as well.

In short I wanna start a mono tzeentch army at some point to go with my mono Khorne army for big games!


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

GreatUncleanOne said:


> So Tzeentch and Slannesh got some goodies ruleswise but khorne and nurgle lose out.


Thanks for clarifying. since i use a mono khorne army i can skip this "update"!


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

Has anyone else noticed the big problem with Pyrocasters now? Apparently your paying 10pts to be a worse BS - mistake me thinks (Fantsay by the way)

I'm sad that there still isn't a Skarbrand model or nurgle herald except for the FW one, and I don't like the look of the new Flamers - however in general I like the update (the chariots are a bit meh but oh well)


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

seermaster said:


> youll prob be able to find them online but its like the marine and ork flyers they dont have rules in the books or anything just white dwarf


Okay... So you either buy the WD (if available near you) or you buy an iPad!?

Man, I really hope for Daemon players that GW provides a third way.

Phil


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Is it worth just ditching my idea of integrating daemons with my Iron Warriors and instead just turn them into fantasy daemons.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

I have monoslaanesh daemons. I have the update. I am pleased I have more slaaneshi options, rather than having to take other gods' ones and modify them.

Everyone has been complaining Tzeentch and Slaanesh get no love. They finally do, and now you're complaining it's the wrong kind of love. Some people are never happy...


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm just trying to figure out what to do with the daemon models I have, I really love the models but everywhere I read, they are wrong for both 40k and fantasy


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

I normally take the Chariot for my Slaanesh Heralds, I have a converted one but like the official one. Have the rules change for Chariots or do I use the rules in the codex. Are the new rules just for new Chariot thing(manflayer),flamers and screamers.

I just want to know what happens a few months down the line when a kid buys the manflayer and asks where the rules are, to only be told that its to late and he missed the white dwarf with them in.
Or are they sold online ? Like £2 or something for the new rules ?


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

I'm personally going to scan mine and make a PDF of them, same as I have with the Sisters codex. I bought them, so I have no guilt about making sure I have a copy safely stored in case toddlers happen to the paper versions. 

I will raise this with various people when I see them next at HQ, as it's now impossible to legally get a sisters codex from GW, and I forsee the same happening with this update, unless they put it online 3 months from now. Though given how they're releasing things properly online, I can see it not being unavailable for long...


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

falcoso said:


> Has anyone else noticed the big problem with Pyrocasters now? Apparently your paying 10pts to be a worse BS - mistake me thinks (Fantsay by the way)
> 
> I'm sad that there still isn't a Skarbrand model or nurgle herald except for the FW one, and I don't like the look of the new Flamers - however in general I like the update (the chariots are a bit meh but oh well)


There are other "typos" or mistakes in the mini-dex too. Everything Slaanesh is I6, except one of the Chaiot entries. It is apparently only I5.


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## stalarious (Aug 25, 2011)

Well this is the first time I have seen a update like this so what is going to happen is this like what happened to the SoB. If so why would they wanna do it this way.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

They likely did it this way because it's a LOT harder to rerelease a whole new codex than print an update to give a lacking army some new toys...


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

SilverTabby said:


> They likely did it this way because it's a LOT harder to rerelease a whole new codex than print an update to give a lacking army some new toys...


It's all to GW's credit that they finally do so. I've been asking them about such things for a few years now. Some people at GW were kind enough to answer this(not give me the corporate mishmash GW usually serves). What I was told was that such "mini-update" would create discrepancies between players who had the latest update (vie internet/WD/etc) and those who didn't. GW has finally realized that 99% customers have internet and use it daily. 

So, hopefully, those updates will keep coming. Hopefully they will be available as free PDFs. Hopefully, poeple will thank GW by buying lots of plasticrack in reaction to those updates...

Phil


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

I would just put the rules in the boxes with the models like most companies do and that should solve most problems.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Wow... read this earlier; I hadn't even realised it was coming out. The slaaneshi stuff looks all right, but not all that great. Can't say I'll be taking my slaaneshi chariots any time soon. But the things that _really_ shock me are the tzeentch stuff and the WFB soul grinder...

Flamers- OMG. 33% harder to kill... with a huge points decrease. Flamers used to be great suicide units, but now they are either incredibly cheap suicide bombers or just large mainline units that the enemy just can't approach (9 flamers is barely over 200pts but gives a unit able to jump up, do 9 templates in their shooting then do 9D3 hits from overwatch... nothing can match that for sheer power).

Screamers- the answer to what all those khorne players are going to do now their army is AP3: jetbikes. Faster, more attacks, more wounds and always equal or higher strength to bloodletters for not many more points... crazy.
Oh... and if you DS or happen to get bored and not want to mush enemies in combat you can always just choose to turbo boost and smack them round the head as you jump over them.

Soul Grinders- no, this is not a WFB model... it doesn't look remotely like a WFB model... and even if it was why would a T7 monster with 4+/5++ and M8 that can massacre almost anything it gets to and be upgraded with move & fire artillery be the same points as almost every other T6 4-5+ save monster.

Total and utter madness... but the new chariots do look cool (except that lawn mower one).


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## seermaster (Feb 22, 2012)

do you mean the exalted one cos i think it looks beef


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

@Tim/Steve - my Slaaneshi daemon /Eldar mashup force now has it's rules for possessed jetbikes :wink:


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

Also can someoen explain to me what Jump pack infantry is? Is it jump infantry or is it a jet pack?


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## shaggy (Jul 9, 2009)

Jump packs are what the assualt marines have. Fairly common, move 12", assualt an enemy up to 2d6" with a reroll if you didn't jump in the movement phase, etc. Jet packs only move 6" but they grant relentless and may move 2d6" in the assualt phase even if you aren't charging.


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## shaggy (Jul 9, 2009)

I like this update and what it means for gamers. It reminds me of back in 3rd Ed when terminators were given their invul save in a white dwarf chapter approved. Everyone had a beat up copy they brought with them to every game because if you didn't have the magazine, you couldn't use the rule. Even if it's not called "chapter approved" the spirit is still the same.


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

So its just the same as a normal jump infantry just written oddly, thanks


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