# Help a newbie



## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Didn't see one of these in the warhammer section, so I'm starting one, basically it's an area where people can ask newbie questions and have them answered by myself or one of the other veterans.

The special thing about this thread is no question is too small/simple to be answered, so if you have one throw it in and I'll do my best to give you a quick answer .

Thanks,
NK


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Good idea NK! +rep from me!


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

What hapened to knights of the white wolf?

(PS: Boo! Bet you werent expecting me!)


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

I think one of their sub groups the grey knights were exiled or something....I was more thinking along the lines of tactics and army builds though


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

Here's one that's been bugging me about using Mark of Khorne in my Warriors of Chaos army...

Here's the situation:

Some Chaos Knights with Mark of Khorne has a unit of Warhounds in front of it.
-The Warhounds wish to charge a unit. They succeed.
-Can the Chaos Knights then charge the same unit or another unit, since the warhounds are out of the way?


This question has been bugging me, since I'm not familiar with screening units. Thanks for the help, NK and anyone else!


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Ascendant Valor said:


> Here's one that's been bugging me about using Mark of Khorne in my Warriors of Chaos army...
> 
> Here's the situation:
> 
> ...


If the line of sight of the Chaos Knights is completely blocked then they will not be able to charge this turn, as the movement of chargers, occurs after the compulsory movement phase (so when it is their turn to declare a charge, their LOS is blocked).

HOWEVER, if the line of sight of the Chaos Knights is partially blocked and the warhounds movement would cause them to no longer obscure the charge path of the knights, then the knights must charge.

If the warhounds don't charge, then the knights won't be able to either, as their movement is blocked.

In essence, this means that screening frenzied units works by partially obscuring their vision so they have LOS, but not line of movement, stopping a premature charge.

I hope that clears it up!


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

Ascendant Valor said:


> Here's one that's been bugging me about using Mark of Khorne in my Warriors of Chaos army...
> 
> Here's the situation:
> 
> ...


no. you move chargers after all charges have been declared, so you would declare the warhounds charge, then the knights charge, then move the warhounds then the knights. since the knights can not see the enemy untill the warhounds have moved then they can not declare a charge.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Dafistofmork said:


> no. you move chargers after all charges have been declared, so you would declare the warhounds charge, then the knights charge, then move the warhounds then the knights. since the knights can not see the enemy untill the warhounds have moved then they can not declare a charge.


I think you misunderstood me. I stated, that in the case of completely obscured line of sight, the knights cannot charge. In the instance of partial line of sight, they can charge if the hounds also charge. I did state, that with completely obscured line of sight, the knights can not charge in that turn.

My answer directly referenced the GW FAQ, which also asked about this specific example.

See:
Click Here

Page two, under psychology.


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

I think the best way to use screening units is not to block the knights by putting the warhounds in front of the knights, but close enough that they block any charges or march moves by the enemy!


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

Thanks much for the assistance NK, dFoM, and HR.

If any more questions pop up, I know where to turn!


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

HorusReborn said:


> I think the best way to use screening units is not to block the knights by putting the warhounds in front of the knights, but close enough that they block any charges or march moves by the enemy!


I think the confusion was about frenzy and blocking. That is, how does screening of a unit work in relation to stopping premature charges with frenzy. Not that I disagree with you with blocking charges/march moves.

Experienced players will often use frenzy to their advantage, using it in combination with fleeing to destroy an otherwise powerful and deadly unit, by luring it into the open and positions where it can easily be surrounded and destroyed.

The partial screening tactic works by making sure they only charge when you wish them to.

If you put the hounds close like HR said, you also block counter charges by the enemy, but this whole thing is highly situational, 'partial' screening and blocking charges is all really relative...


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

anyway, who needs to lure chaos knights away? just blast them with an elvated organ gun.

organ guns, the solution to everything.:victory:


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

Ooh! Another question just came up!

I don't have a BRB or AB on hand, so I can't find an answer myself, so here goes:

Okay. We've got a beasty Warriors of Chaos unit. Full command, plus it has a beasty Exalted Hero. They're in combat with another unit that has a Full Command and a mage.

Can I issue two challenges, one from my Unit Champion and one from my Hero?


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

off hand, i would say no, as the other hero/champ will be to busy watching the other chalenge to pay attention to his, and with chalenges adding a potential 5 to combat res, it would be very broken. i have also never seen any one try it.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Ascendant Valor said:


> Ooh! Another question just came up!
> 
> I don't have a BRB or AB on hand, so I can't find an answer myself, so here goes:
> 
> ...


The rules state that only one challenge can be fought per turn.

This means from you and your enemy.

The events go as follows:

1. Person whose turn it is, may issue a challenge.
1.1 Opponent refuse/accept.

2. If no challenge is issued, opponent may issue one this turn (note, the challenge previously needn't be accepted in order to deny the opponent the chance to issue one himself).
2.1 Refuse/accept.

The challenge numbers is per combat, not per unit, so if you had a 4 unit melee, then you would also still only fight one challenge.

Worth noting also, that a character must be in base to base contact with the enemy in order to issue a challenge and accept it (this is why a rear charge counters many deathstar units, I saw an ogre deathstar killed by only 5 chaos knights).

(Warhammer Fantasy Battles, 2006, p. 76-77)

I hope that's clear now! 

And @ Mork the maximum combat res generated from slaying a character in a challenge is wounds +5. So against the standard lord with 3 wounds, this generates a potential 8.

(Warhammer Fantasy Battles, 2006, p. 77)
NK


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Actually Nagash when in challenge you dont count the regulaur wounds inflicted. You only count the wounds you in inflict over their starting level, and regardless of how many wounds the model has you can only inflict a maximum 5 overkill. for example you fight against a standard hero, you inflict 10 wounds, so his basic 2 wounds are subtracted, and now it would seem you have +8 res, but you only have +5


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

You get regular wounds inflicted + overkill, the BRB is quite clear, check it out.

I will quote the book:
"...They slay the champion before he has a chance to attack and cause seven wounds.....their combat result score is 1 plus 5 (maximum overkill) for a total of 6 combat result point, the last of the seven wounds are wasted"

(Warhammer Fantasy Battles, 2006, p. 77 )


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Oh my mistake then! +rep NK


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> Oh my mistake then! +rep NK


No problem , I think most people don't realise that you can get more than 5, although it's rare to get more but there's a few weapons (the ogres have one which does D3 and counts towards combat rez and overkill).

The best I saw was a dragon and elf lord die in a challenge versus a chaos lord resulting in a massive combat rez for the bad guys.


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

Kharzrak one-eye (beasts of Chaos) can keep wounding until he fails a roll. That's the best way I know of to make sure the enemy runs. If you challenge the champion you can easily do 7 or 8 wounds in one turn of cc.


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

Col. Schafer said:


> What hapened to knights of the white wolf?
> 
> (PS: Boo! Bet you werent expecting me!)


Since no one else want to tackle this one. 

The knights of the White wolf are still available, the Empire Knightly Orders have two weapons options to choose from, the standard lance and shield or a great weapon. The great weapon is there for those of us who realize that Sigmar is nothing without Ulric. Unfortunalty the Knights of the White wolf we all knew and loved have fallen by the wayside. It seems that GW realised that the cavalry hammers were far better than a lance in that they provided a +2 strength on the charge and a +1 the rest of the time all without taking a speed penalty. 

We loved them, we miss them but ultimatly, it's for the good of the game.

For now our Knights of the White Wolf are knights with great weapons, best used against the hoards of the undead still flowing from Khemri and Sylvania.


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

Threadomancy! This is still an applicable thread in my mind, at least.

Here's another one from yours truly:
Is it possible to march and move in the same turn? To put this into perspective, here's what we do at my gaming club: We'll turn our troops 90 degrees (a typical Move), then we'll march the rest of our movement (since the 90* turn takes 1/4 Movement, we take double the rest).

So, a unit of Chaos Warriors turns 90*, leaving 3" left to move. They then march the rest of their movement, being 6". Obviously, there are no charges and no march blockers.

Are complex moves like this allowable?


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## werewolf88lod (Jul 6, 2009)

I can't find anything in the rulebook that argues that point. I see no issue, anyone else?


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## Jester12 (Jun 18, 2009)

If you are just turning from the centre point of the unit that's a reform and that's the only move you can do. You can wheel by turning unit and keeping the corner of the unit where it is measuring the distance moved from the opposite corner that does all of the moving and continue the rest of your march distance but 90 degrees is going to be way more than a quarter of your turn. It's all in reform/marching section on page 14-15 of the rulebook.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Page 13 of the rulebook

To turn, you cannot march, for a turn, you lose 1/4 of your movement, so to turn to the left, you will lose say, 1 inch out of 4. This loss is the same, regardless of how far turned ( because of this, you can move backwards effectively at half speed).

Whilst marching you can only wheel, you can't turn, which is handled differently.

Reforms act in a similar way, half movement lost, to add/subtract up to 5 models from the front, lose all movement to add/subtract 10 models.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

I have a question of my own too, if anyone knows.

How are undead affected by restraint to pursue. Generally you must pass a leadership test to restrain from pursuit. I couldn't find any mention of undead and pursuit, however with the lowest leadership in the game, undead and pursuit becomes difficult (it's basically guaranteed). I was just wondering if anyone knows of special rules governing this.


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## werewolf88lod (Jul 6, 2009)

Jester12 said:


> It's all in reform/marching section on page 14-15 of the rulebook.





NagashKhemmler said:


> Page 13 of the rulebook
> 
> To turn, you cannot march, for a turn, you lose 1/4 of your movement, so to turn to the left, you will lose say, 1 inch out of 4. This loss is the same, regardless of how far turned ( because of this, you can move backwards effectively at half speed).


I see where you're looking, I was there as well. This may be splitting hairs, but it never specifically says that none of these can be done BEFORE marching. They all specifically dictate that they cannot be done during a march.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but it's worth a glance.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

werewolf88lod said:


> I see where you're looking, I was there as well. This may be splitting hairs, but it never specifically says that none of these can be done BEFORE marching. They all specifically dictate that they cannot be done during a march.
> 
> I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but it's worth a glance.


Marching takes place instead of a regular move, you can't move and then march for example. Essentially you give up your regular move to march.


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## werewolf88lod (Jul 6, 2009)

NagashKhemmler said:


> Marching takes place instead of a regular move, you can't move and then march for example. Essentially you give up your regular move to march.


Where is that mentioned? I can't find anything that states this rule. My rulebook only has one requirement before starting a march; "...no enemy models within 8" at the start of their move."


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

I figured this would have been a simpler question of mine, but it is indeed rather debatable!

I've found something that will further affirm NK's arguments (though I'd still rather side with you, werewolf)...

Check the BRB, p.15, under Marching, towards the bottom. It says the following:


BRB said:


> A unit on the march cannot change formation or turn...


So, it sounds like it is at least possible to turn first and then march, but you CLEARLY cannot March 3", Turn, then March 3" again. Ideas?


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## Jester12 (Jun 18, 2009)

third paragraph under turn on pg 13. Pretty much say if you are marching you cannot make a turn manoeuver "at all".period.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

You can't march and move. You can't turn and march, so therefore yeah....


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## werewolf88lod (Jul 6, 2009)

I play by that rule, I'm just trying to show you there is no true crystal answer on this debate in the current edition of the rulebook. Any rule about turning and marching only speaks about during a march.

I love a healthy, non-flaming debate. They feel good. Thanks for the fun. :3


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## skate4life (Jul 14, 2009)

i know everyone one is going to say "what you like the look of" or somethin but what would you really suggest for a new army i only play 40K but i want to start warhammer to


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

All goblin or all gnoblar. Doesn't get much dumber than that! :victory:


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

@ Skate4Life:

It's really unfair for us to just prescribe an army to you, so instead I'll point you toward a few resources we have in place here to get you started.

Check THIS thread out to help decide which army (or armies) interest(s) you.

Then, check out THIS Here thread for some nice information on the army (or armies) you chose in the previous link.

And, if all else fails, you can try SwissDictator's Thread, which may give that extra oomph to your decision making process.

You've got three great resources to work with. I suggest you start to develop some ideas, namely about which army or armies interest you the most, which you like the looks of the most, which you think you'd like the play style of the most, and so forth. Once you start to narrow down the decision to an army or a few, shoot us a post and let us give you a little bit of extra input (if you need it, that is!).

That should get you on your way. I hope for the best for you, S4L. Enjoy your stay in Fantasy! :victory:


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Fantasy isn't like 40k, the armies are more balanced and its less of a case of 'everyone plays marines' and more a case of 'everyone plays everything' as a result, it really only matters which one appeals most to you. (appearance/feel)


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

Dafistofmork said:


> no. you move chargers after all charges have been declared, so you would declare the warhounds charge, then the knights charge, then move the warhounds then the knights. since the knights can not see the enemy untill the warhounds have moved then they can not declare a charge.



How the holy hell can mounted people not see over something like warhounds or infantry?
Warhammer Lack of Sight... erm, Line of Sight often makes no sense to me.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Vrykolas2k said:


> How the holy hell can mounted people not see over something like warhounds or infantry?
> Warhammer Lack of Sight... erm, Line of Sight often makes no sense to me.


This is a highly complicated question, but as a general rule, line of sight not only means the ability to see, but also the ability to act in a fashion.

If you lack line of sight, you may be able to see to some degree, but unable to move (as would be the case with the warhounds/chaos knights).

The line of sight rules are a simplification of the previously more complicated LOS rules from beforehand.

However, monsterous sized creatures have line of sight over units and if equipped with 'fly' may charge over friendly units.


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## Vrykolas2k (Jun 10, 2008)

NagashKhemmler said:


> This is a highly complicated question, but as a general rule, line of sight not only means the ability to see, but also the ability to act in a fashion.
> 
> If you lack line of sight, you may be able to see to some degree, but unable to move (as would be the case with the warhounds/chaos knights).
> 
> ...



I see... somewhat... still it seems like, in the example where the issue was raised, the knights should be able to declare a charge after the hounds do... or am I still thinking too real-world-tactically?
I find I often have that proble with 40K and fantasy, though admittedly I've only played 3 games of fantasy thus far, and have played 40K since 3rd...


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