# Murderous Hurricane



## buddy999 (Mar 1, 2008)

I just checked the BRB and this checks out,if u hit a unit with MH their reduced to I1 if they assault, question is this ,is it in their next movement phase or next game turn,i never knew about the I1 thing,thats awesome or am reading it wrong:mrgreen:


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## Theripontigonus (Dec 13, 2009)

I think they should be at I1, since the rulebook says that if you pass through dificult terrain while assaulting, you strike at I1. Since the targeted unit treats all terrain as difficult and dangerous, they will always be assaulting at I1.

Since this thread is allready here, I have another question. This has become an argument between myself and another SW player in the store. Do you have to roll to hit with MH? I was under the impression that it follows the rules for psychic shooting attacks as far as targeting, but you dont need to roll to hit since it doesnt have a set number of shots, or a weapon profile (like LL, Wolf Spirits, and all of the codex SM powers). I assumed that since it says 3D6 hits and doesnt have a number of shots, it auto-hits. Anyone with a definitive answer?


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

To me 3D6 hits is just that, 3D6 _hits_. No roll to hit needed


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## buddy999 (Mar 1, 2008)

Defo no need to roll to hit,played it out a couple of days ago and its deadly,slows them down,hurts them twice over(3d6 hits and losing models on diff terr test) and handicaps their next turn assault if they even make it:biggrin:,worth noting assault grenades(frag,plasma etc) negates the initiative nerf,i run 2 RPs and both have this now even allowing the other powers are awesome:goodoes anyone know for sure about the "next turn thing"if your going second it doesn't matter but if you go first, hit them with MH,do they assault normally this turn and effects kick in next game turn or do you play it their next game turn as in turn after they were hit,sorry to drag it out but id like to know the right way to play it,thanks for reply


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## geneticdeviant (Sep 17, 2009)

Another question, im bit of a newbie so if ive got wrong end of the stick then please bear with me.

When does the effect of Murderous Hurricane take effect leaving the enemy unit with iniative 1? Is it straight after you use it?

Reason why i ask is this, imagine having a master psyker, 2 psychic shooting attacks per turn. You use murderous hurricane reducing enemy units iniative to 1, then you follow that up with jaws of the world wolf straight away, as this is based on a leadership / roll on iniative, those enemy units are going to die horribly. Am i correct? Can you actually do this?


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## geneticdeviant (Sep 17, 2009)

ok just read the codex and it has maybe shed some light:

quote " next turn that unit treats all terrain, even clear terrain, as both difficult and dangerous"

So im reading that for the entirety of the next game turn, ie moving, shooting, assaulting including your own movement, shooting and assault phases.

meaning you could hit with murderous hurricane, and your next shooting phase use jaws of the world wolf on same unit (that now has iniative 1) for devastating effect. Could be effective for taking out key targets such as HQ's and Monstrous creatures etc.

Correct?

Just one question though, where does it state that a unit is iniative 1 when in dangerous terrain?


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## geneticdeviant (Sep 17, 2009)

Sorry if i've hi-jacked the thread


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## crabpuff (Aug 5, 2008)

No, the int 1 is only if they assault you the turn they are affected, and do not have grenades. Once you cast on the unit wheter you cause wounds or not, they are affected by the Difficult/dangerous terrain effect.


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## geneticdeviant (Sep 17, 2009)

crabpuff said:


> No, the int 1 is only if they assault you the turn they are affected, and do not have grenades. Once you cast on the unit wheter you cause wounds or not, they are affected by the Difficult/dangerous terrain effect.


okay thanks for that.

Find it odd though, that if the enemy unit is, due to the effect of murderous hurricane, on dangerous terrain that this would have no impact on their initiative when defending a further psychic shoting attack.

think of the scenario, they have just bin hit with murderous hurricane, conditions are so bad, a hurricane rages. would these conditions impact upon being able to avoid another shooting attack? Of course they would. They arent going to have the same initiative and ability to avoid the second shooting attack due to these adverse conditions / difficult terrain.

I'm not saying your wrong, please dont think that. I'm merely saying how strange it is that this is the case. Though i guess for game balancing etc this has to be the case. Even with my suggestion though the enemy player would have to be going second in order for you to use this strategy so it would be a rare case where you could actually use it.


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## crabpuff (Aug 5, 2008)

I look at it that the hurricane takes time to build up just some hail, wind, and snow at first, so that by their turn they are affected by the slippery ground and impeded vision.


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## Forty Three (Jun 20, 2008)

in any case you would need 2 priests for doing what you want, since while you can do 2 psychic powers per turn, you're still limited to one shooting attack. This is why the wolf spirits power is not very useful, since you can't shoot both it and LL in the same turn.


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## geneticdeviant (Sep 17, 2009)

Forty Three said:


> in any case you would need 2 priests for doing what you want, since while you can do 2 psychic powers per turn, you're still limited to one shooting attack. This is why the wolf spirits power is not very useful, since you can't shoot both it and LL in the same turn.


A master psyker of njal can use two psychic attacks per turn, in the space wolves codex it says on Njal's page (page 53) the following:

"*Master Psyker*: Njal knows all of the psychic powers on page 37 and may use up to two per turn"

On page 37 it lists all the psychic attacks / psychic shooting attacks.

I take the wording to mean you can use any two of those powers listed on page 37 per turn.

Also under rune priest entry (page 37) it states: "A rune priest has two psychic powers from the list below chosen when the army is picked. He can only use one each player turn unless he has ben upgraded to a master of the runes, in which case he can use upto two powers"

Have i missed something here?


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Well, are they *all* psychic shooting powers?
Generally speaking, you get to "shoot" once per turn.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Both JotWW and Murderous Hurricane are Psychic Shooting attacks. As a normal Infantry model may only shoot one weapon, he may only fire one Psychic Shooting Power.


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## geneticdeviant (Sep 17, 2009)

Cyklown said:


> Well, are they *all* psychic shooting powers?
> Generally speaking, you get to "shoot" once per turn.


All but two are psychic shooting attacks but the wording is:

"Njal knows all of the psychic powers on page 37 and may use up to two per turn"

So that definately implies that you can use any two of those powers listed per turn.

Otherwise there would be little point upgrading a rune priest to master psyker especially at a cost of 50 points.


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## geneticdeviant (Sep 17, 2009)

Anyway to get clarification on this?


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## geneticdeviant (Sep 17, 2009)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Both JotWW and Murderous Hurricane are Psychic Shooting attacks. As a normal Infantry model may only shoot one weapon, he may only fire one Psychic Shooting Power.


yes fair point, still think the cdex implies that you can use two psychic shooting attacks.

Way i see it is that if an infantry model has two guns / two weapons. he can use both. so why not two differing psychic shooting attacks?

The wording is very vague.


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## Forty Three (Jun 20, 2008)

that's where the fault in your logic is. an infantry model with 2 weapons cannot fire both on the same turn. He can fire either or. Of the 7 SW powers, 5 are shooting and 2 are not. If you get the upgrade to master of runes you can do one shooting and one of the other 2 per round. 

the reasoning for this is similar to the following. If a psyker uses a psychic shooting attack, he is not allowed to use his bolt pistol. In the same way, he's not allowed to shoot 2 powers.


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## don_mondo (Jan 28, 2007)

No, you cannot use two psychic shooting attacks per turn, unless you are a monstrous creature or are otherwise capable of firing two weapons per turn. 

The Chaos FAQ partially covers this:
Q. Can a Daemon Prince with the Mark of Tzeentch use two different psychic powers, that both count as firing a weapon, in the same Shooting phase?
A. Yes, as Monstrous Creatures can use two weapons in the shooting phase. They must, of course, fire both at the same target. 

So MC can do it because they can fire two weapons, meaning that non-MCs cannot as they cannot fire two weapons........


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Forty Three is right on this one. It's very clearly spelt out in the Psykers section of the BRB (P50) "Even if a psyker has a special rule allowing him to use more than one psychic power per turn, he can use only one psychic shooting attack (as models can fire only one ranged weapon per turn)."

For the same reason, sorcerers of Tzeench cannot use two shooting powers a turn, even though they are allowed to use 2 powers. Daemon prince of Tzeench CAN use two shooting powers a turn, as they are MCs, and so can fire up to two weapons a turn anyway. Njal can use more than one power, but unless he has a specific rule allowing him to use more than one shooting power, he simply can't. 

Hope that helps clear it up 

Edit: ninja'd by Don Mondo :laugh:


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## don_mondo (Jan 28, 2007)

Ahhh, but you gave the main rulebook reference that I couldn't find. Looked through three other FAQs for taht, thought it was in one of them.


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## Forty Three (Jun 20, 2008)

yeah I was looking through FAQs for it as well, didn't realize it was in the BRB =X


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## winterwolf (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm not so sure that the question of when the unit hit by Murderous Hurricane suffers the difficult/dangerous terrain.

If you look at the Space Wolves FAQ for Njall, one of the questions is:
Q. How do Njal Stormcaller’s Driving Gale and
Living Hurricane effects work if the Space Wolves
player is the player going second? 
A. These two abilities have no real effect in games
where the Space Wolves player is going second –
the tempest is yet to rage.

Driving Gale says Enemy Models within 24" are -1 BS this turn. Implying the whole turn, hence why if you go second, it does nothing as the turn is over.

Using the same logic, if you cast MH on a unit and you were going first in turn 1, they would get affected by difficult/dangerous terrain only during turn 2.

Why on earth GW couldn't just use the same language as they did in Tempest's Wrath is beyond me.


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## buddy999 (Mar 1, 2008)

ya,this is a bit unrealistic,its "feels" like the correct time for this to kick in is the enemy units next assault,be it after u if u go first or next turn if u go second,its not big a deal one way or the other,ill think i play it all happening together(same turn dangerous terrain test if move or run,3d6 s3 hits and i1 if no frags if assault) were possible


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

That is correct winterwolf, if you're going first then the target unit will not be murderised on Turn 1, but rather for the whole of turn 2. So they will get a movement phase to mess around in then next movement phase they'll be stuck. 

Aramoro


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## crabpuff (Aug 5, 2008)

I have to disagree if you use MH then the turn after yours (the next player) it kicks into effect. So if i am first and it is turn one and I target a unit with MH, then on their turn one they are affected by effects. Njal's stuff is completely different from this power


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

If Murderous hurricane said next player's turn then you would be right. But strangely it doesn't. RAI it should be next player turn, but RAW it's the next game turn. 

Aramoro


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## crabpuff (Aug 5, 2008)

in the errata it states:
The question was "Is the unit affected by MH for the entirety of their turn or just the following movement phase?"
Anwser "The unit treats terrain as difficult and dangerous for the entirety of the next player turn." p 4 of the errata


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

BRB Page 9.

Turn means players turn unless it explictly states game turn.


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## winterwolf (Jan 22, 2010)

Woo glad it is sorted. It is much better if it occurs in the next player's turn.


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