# could Tyranids be the strong species ever?



## Warlord_Winters (May 2, 2012)

strongest*

well I read that they came from beyond the known galaxy, so how many worlds have they conqured where they came from? how many more galaxies? 

on the udder hand, they could be running from something. which is why they came to the 40k galaxy. so what could have made this massivice scorge run away?



side question: would Nids make sense in Fantasy?


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

The answers to your questions are pretty simple. I will try to summarize them as best as I can.



Warlord_Winters said:


> so how many worlds have they conqured where they came from?



We don't know.



Warlord_Winters said:


> how many more galaxies?


We don't know



Warlord_Winters said:


> so what could have made this massivice scorge run away?


We don't know.



Warlord_Winters said:


> side question: would Nids make sense in Fantasy?


_I_ don't know (I don't know anything about Fantasy...)

Hopes this helps!


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## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

I always figure the Necrons were tougher than the nids.


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## Tyreal Ardeus (Mar 28, 2012)

It's quite possibru that they are. Between their insane numbers, and their insane evolutionary and adaptation ability they are a very strong contender for the overall 'strongest' race. Plus there are hints that what we've seen so far, which has destroyed whole sectors with ease, could just be the tip of the iceberg. 

However there are other contenders for that position as well. It's mentioned several times that should the Orks ever entirely unite and stop killing each other then they would be totally unstoppable by any means. Also there are nigh infinite daemons in the warp that are, down to the smallest nurgling, very very dangerous to mortal things and also very hard to kill. The only reason that they haven't poured into the galaxy at large by now is either A: because the Emperor keeps them at bay or B: like most other daemons, there are very special and often specific requirements for them to enter the mortal realm, and often only for very short amounts of time. Not to mention that daemons technically never actually die. You kill their mortal form and their spirits will just go back to the warp for a little while, get a new body, and come back later.

But nids still hold a pretty high spot. They could likely evolve and adapt to the daemon's weaponry and defenses and the Ork's insane numbers.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Tyranids have the numerical advantage over just about every race there is. Orks are unlikely to pose a serious problem in this regard. 

The best contenders are necrons. Evident by the fact that their gauss weaponry completely destroys matter thus depleting tyranid resources and the further fact that they provide no biomass for the nids to replace these losses.

Backing this up is the whole nids avoiding tomb worlds theory. 


I will point out however that this is not confirmed and remains guesswork and conjecture.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

If their behavior is anything to go on however they are still scared of Necrons...

Ninja'd by Serp!


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## Warlord_Winters (May 2, 2012)

Iron Angel said:


> If their behavior is anything to go on however they are still scared of Necrons...
> 
> Ninja'd by Serp!



but don't they have 0...um the stat where they get scared?


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## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

It is mentioned in the Necron codex that the Stormlord worries about the Tyranids. He believes that if all Necron were to rise right now, they alone could quell Hive Fleet Leviathan. However, if Leviathan continues to feed on the "lesser" species, then Leviathan will surpass the abilities of the Necron.


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## KahRyez (Sep 7, 2010)

Actually it was the Silent King who stated that the tyranid would be no match for the combined forces of the Dynasties, but due to their fragmented state at the moment, the nids might eat everything before he gets the chance to put them down.

This was one of the reasons that he teamed up with the BA to fight off the nids. 

Before the fluff change to the crons I thought that the nids were actually aspects of or somehow involved with the Outsider, the insane C'tan that up and vanished when the rest of the Necrons entered stasis.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

KahRyez said:


> Before the fluff change to the crons I thought that the nids were actually aspects of or somehow involved with the Outsider, the insane C'tan that up and vanished when the rest of the Necrons entered stasis.


That theory was utter garbage even before the fluff change. There's no way a c'tan could integrate itself into such a psyker oriented race.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

A possible reason why the Tyranids avoid certain Necron worlds could be that those worlds have functional Null Field Matrices. The 5th ed codex says a Null Field Matrix disrupts the Warp, psyker energy and adversary affects Tyranid synapse. The adverse affect is hinted to be cutting the organisms off completely from the Hive Mind, which kills the lesser organisms. But a Null Field Matrix is incredibly difficult to maintain, so they are rare.

I suggest this as a possibility as Tyranids have been attracted to worlds with Necrons on them. This is evident with the BA Necron team-up against Tyranids. Both were already fighting on that world when the Tyranids arrived. So a significant enough amount of biomass could attract Tyranids to a Necron world or world with Necrons on it, provided there was no Null Field Matrix.


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## Septok (Jan 21, 2012)

The way I see it, there are four possible outcomes for the 40k fluff:
-Chaos wins after eradicating all others. Then they rip each other to shreds and destroy everything, even the gods, so the universe ends. Suitably grimdark.
-The Imperium of man crushes chaos, permanently banishing them and/or destroying them entirely*. Then:
-The Imperium kills off everything. Probably not grimdark enough.
-The Tyranids come along and eat everything.
-Through some combination of events, the Necrons kill all and reclaim the galaxy.

*This includes the Eldar myth that they'll all go and destroy Slaanesh (and chaos in general) in the end, wiping themselves out.

Therefore, the Eldar as a race cannot win. Now, the Orks probably won't either. Given that the Old Ones created them, there's every chance that the Necrons did something to them, or may know how to utterly destroy them. No matter what, the universe stays grimdark and the Imperium probably won't win.

Onto the matter at hand, this means that the Tyranids, Necrons or Chaos are most likely to win. The Imperium is on its last legs, so they're unlikely to win. However, we really can't say for certain because the Eldar keep on stopping fluff advancement. This may or may not mean GW, however.


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## SoL Berzerker (May 5, 2009)

The only way I see humanity coming out on top is if the Emperor revives or all of the remaining primarchs come back at the same time and totally kick ass, but both of those scenarios are long shots.


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

Well, for one Nids arent really a "species", being more of a genetic "genus" at closest, probably more like "family" in relationship. Now that my nerd anger has been appeased...

I think that if enough necrons wake before the Nids come devour everything, then their Gauss + numbers (there will be alot) will rip through the Nids, slowly depleting their stores.
Orcs do have a chance, they can come back almost as fast as nids and there are alot - but once the rest come theyre screwed.
Eldar - no hope. dying. They just want to kill Slaanesh.
Nids: They have a good chance because of their numbers, but...
Crons: They have probably the best chance because they can compeletely destroy biomass (sucks to suck nids), they arent made of biomass (again), and they have ridiculous technology. Not to mention that a very small percentage of their total warriors are awake as of yet...
Imperium - they do have a chance, but a Primarch at least and the Emperor Reborn/The Star Child whatever would be necessary for them to come back and win in the end. I dont think it will happen for a while..
Tau - they have a chance simply because they are so accepting. Yes, they are few in numbers, but look at the advances they've made in such a short time, their technology will soon completely surpass that of the necrons at this rate. And also they will let any remnant humans join them as (basically) equals. Any other race too. With them, a bunch of Humans, and random other races united I think they stand a chance. They just need dat tech... This, in my opinion, would be the best ending to the tale.
Chaos - Eh. I dont think they could win: I think theyre winning. They win by having the Imperium to feed off of, and without it theyre screwed. So, eventually, I think they would die.

Did I miss anyone?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Don't make assumptions. The full number of dormant necrons is a guess, not certainty. Their actual body count could be significantly lower than what is expected.


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## Sangus Bane (Jun 17, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Don't make assumptions. The full number of dormant necrons is a guess, not certainty. Their actual body count could be significantly lower than what is expected.


Or significantly higher for that matter.

Either way, I think the chances of all of them rising at once and joining arms is slim.
I know little of the Necrons, but didn't they have inner conflicts or something?


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## Tyreal Ardeus (Mar 28, 2012)

Personally I'm leaning nids.

Keep in mind that the nids are far more numerous than any of us can really even compatively imagine. For every Necron there is a planet's worth of Tyranids. Additionally the Tyranids have demonstrated stupid evolutionary capabilities such as adapting to every single weapon that the tech-advanced Tau threw at them, from plasma (heat of the sun) to railguns (insanely focused heat of sun) and did so within a very short span of time. The only reason they were beat off was with overwhelming help from the Imperium, primarily Ultramarines, which arrived soon after.

Also as a side note Gauss weapons do not altogether destroy matter, that's not physically possible. The description is it strips the atoms of whatever it hits apart on a molecular level. Still dangerous but the particles and such still remain.

Yes nids can't absorb the Necron's biomatter as there is none to absorb, but the Milky Way is filled to the brim and then some with biomatter that *is* absorbable. Every single human (which by the way outnumbers Orks, just not militarily) and for that matter every single Ork as well as indigenous life on every planet. For every inch of anything organic that exists, there can (will eventually?) be that same inch of a new Tyranid. Let alone the unknown amounts of Tyranids that lurk outside of the galaxy. From the way the Tyranids have been advancing (in 'tendrils' comparable to tips of iceburgs instead of walls or waves) it suggests that there are far more of them instead of less of them.

Of course the Orks and Daemons can't be left out either. It's mentioned several times that if the Orks ever fully united they would be unstoppable, especially if any single Ork took control of this force. He'd become so empowered by the Waaagh! that he would probably become a third Ork god, after Gork and Mork. There are nearly infinite Daemons in the warp that can't come through because either the Emperor or some other reason and their spirits really can't die, they just gain new physical bodies after their old ones die.

Lastly if the Emperor dies and his spirit in the warp, the Star Child, comes back as a new Emperor or Human 'God', then he will more than likely lead humanity to victory. There's a good reason why before the Horus Heresy you never heard about any race, no matter who they were, even slowing humanity down with the Emperor and his Primarchs at the helm. Humanity was totally unstoppable with the Emperor leading them and even with new enemies and a much degraded mankind I think the Emperor in his new form could probably lead the Imperium to victory. After all before he died he had been planning on making his own version of the webway, in addition to several plans of taking down the gods of chaos. Who knows?

That's my 2 cents anyway.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Assuming the Tyranids and Necrons are somewhat even, I would pitch the advantage to the Necrons. Why?

The Tyranids are dependent on biomatter. The Necrons could play a scorched earth policy. The Imperium has as well, to reasonable effect, but the Imperium still needs to defend worlds too important to torch and destroying valuable life-sustaining worlds is wasteful.

The Necrons aren't held back by either issue. They could literally destroy all life in the galaxy, beat down the Tyranids over the course of whatever (thousands or tens of thousands of years) and then go back into hibernation for another 60 million years and wait for the galaxy to repopulate.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Whatever happened to that old Orkoid more dead orcs = creating more, creating stronger, and attracting more, attracting stronger, better technology, from the mech's collective genius etc... 

And no, keep Nids away from Fantasy. Daemons are the nids in that world, the fact the question had to be asked shows that you need to read more up on it.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

I would say Necrons are less in number than even the Silent King expects to find. Many tomb worlds have been destroyed or sucked into the Warp during their slumber. And many Necrons have succumb to the Flayer and Destroyer viruses making them too unstable to rely on. I think destroying the Tyranids would require the cooperation of at least two species or a wholesale scorched earth policy to create a "fire break."

And the Necrons have no intention of destroying all other life to defeat the Tyranids. They went to sleep because the galaxy was so ravaged in the first place. There was too little life left. The Necrons belief they need pre-existing host bodies to achieve Apothesis. They want to return to bodies of flesh, which requires bodies to transfer their minds into. If the Tyranids bring the galaxy to the brink of extinction, the Necrons will have to sleep again.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Archon Dan said:


> And the Necrons have no intention of destroying all other life to defeat the Tyranids. They went to sleep because the galaxy was so ravaged in the first place. There was too little life left. The Necrons belief they need pre-existing host bodies to achieve Apothesis. They want to return to bodies of flesh, which requires bodies to transfer their minds into. If the Tyranids bring the galaxy to the brink of extinction, the Necrons will have to sleep again.


They actually went to sleep because of the appalling loses they took from defeating the C'tan. They knew they couldn't confront the Eldar in their weakened state, so they chilled until the Eldar waned. 

And if the two options are either to try to tackle a powerful Tyranid force and die or to burn everything of use, sleep again, and return when conditions are more favorable, which one do you expect the Necron to choose?


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

As a species: Orks - inherent evolutionary abilities allow them to grow to impressive size, suffer incredible amounts of damage without loss of function, breed without effort or attention and of course their inherent technological and psykic abilities. Nids come close but all Orks are members of the same species (even grots and squigs) whereas Nids are not really.

As a race (which is what you guys are all debating): Chaos - Chaos is not reliant on the physical universe or on linear time, which means that no other race is capable of combating them properly or destroying them utterly. Tyranids may or may not have the numbers to overrun the galaxy, but the Gods will remain when they are gone. Necrons may or may not have the numbers to scourge the galaxy, but the Gods will remain when they turn on one another. Chaos is eternal, it is beyond time and beyond comprehension. The Gods have always and will always exist, by their very nature.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Hmmm - I never understood the whole "Fire break" - after all they crossed the Intergalactic void with (presumably) nothing to feed on.


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

They probably are. When it comes to their numbers they probably rival the orks, and any looses they take they just re absorb them and create new tyrranids. They are also far more efficient than orks, they do not fight amongst themselves and are brutally effective and adapt to any condition.

Necrons as it stands are too few to stop them, but we do not know the true extent of their forces or what they can really do yet. Deamons have limited control in reality the true strength lies in its armies and the fallen legions. These armies are finite.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Hmmm - I never understood the whole "Fire break" - after all they crossed the Intergalactic void with (presumably) nothing to feed on.


It's about denying them easy resources.

You have a strong military fortress in the next subsector. You can rally several planets' worth of troops at this planet, so you decide to make your stand there. The only problem is that there are several inhabited worlds between this fortress and the hive fleet. You burn these underdefended and undefendedable worlds to make sure the hive fleet is as small as it possibly can be.

And then here's some conjecture on my part:

The Tyranids hibernated while traveling between galaxies. Maybe the distances within a galaxy is too short to truly hibernate in. That means they have to stay semi-active the entire time.


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## Megatron (Jan 23, 2012)

From what I have read every hive fleet encountered so far even the great hive fleet leviathan, is a scouting force probing for weakness. If that is any indication of what the tyranid threat posses, GOOD BYE IMPERIUM.


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## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

I would say they aren't. Some forces that could pose a threat to the Tyranids are the Orks, Chaos, and maybe Necrons. 

If the galaxy ever was hit by the main body of the Tyranid ships, I would say that the Orks are the only race capable of holding them at bay. Necrons are a possibility, but the Necrons are a limited race that require a lot of energy to maintaing compared to the Orks.

As far as Chaos goes, I would just say simply that Chaos isn't an enemy that can be defeated by any race. Yet it posses and will always pose a threat to any race trying to maintain and build itself. Including the Tyranids. I feel Tyranids being purely made up of bio-matter, causes them to be uniquely weakened to the corruption of Chaos.


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## Keeper of the fallen (Jan 14, 2013)

my money is on the nids, they have a huge amount of numbers. the imperium estimate that Imperial mobilisation levels will need to be increased by a minimum of 500% -- which would effectively include every able-bodied man, woman and child on every world in Segmentums Solar, Obscurus and Tempestus. plus add the adaptability and rapid evolution i think the necrons would have a tough fight. for all we no that nids hav encountered and defeated races that were tougher. the silent king knows this and returned from his exile to unite and oppose the nids knowing he'l need all the necrons he can get.


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

Key word "Species". Nids are many. So, no, technically


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

my money is also on the Orks, engineered to be a uber weapon, their adaptability, strength numbers and latent psychic abilities make them for me the ultimate foe for the nids, 
the only chance the empirium has is the psychic renaissance of the human race or maybe finding some fancy STC. Or maybe an unholy alliance,
based upon the recent necron codex, I do not think they will provide the answer to killing the nids, 
the chaos gods could combine their forces again like during the heresy and attack the hive mind? we will see what the GW lore mongrols provide, although in my opinion their exagerated with the dark and grimmy from a loyalist perspective, 

I do not believe in the axioma that the chaos gods are eternal, they have been born, they will die


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

my money is also on the Orks, engineered to be a uber weapon, their adaptability, strength numbers and latent psychic abilities make them for me the ultimate foe for the nids, 
the only chance the empirium has is the psychic renaissance of the human race or maybe finding some fancy STC. Or maybe an unholy alliance,
based upon the recent necron codex, I do not think they will provide the answer to killing the nids, 
the chaos gods could combine their forces again like during the heresy and attack the hive mind? we will see what the GW lore mongrols provide, although in my opinion their exagerated with the dark and grimmy from a loyalist perspective, 

I do not believe in the axioma that the chaos gods are eternal, they have been born, they will die


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## DivineEdge (May 31, 2012)

Could they be the strongest species ever? We are. We ate malal. And the other 4 chaos gods (there were origionally 9) And the eldar gods (no it wasn't slaanesh). The dark eldar are in commoragh - hiding from us. The imperium is feeding us agriworlds one at a time so we don't ever make it to terra.

To the intergalactic hibernation discussion - 

Hibernation is only energy-effective when you spend long periods of time in suspended animation. Look at decidous trees. If they popped off all of their leaves and "slept" with no photosynthesis for just a week they would expend a crapton more energy regrowing what they lost and building up/conserving energy then if they had just hibernated for 6 months. 

If the nids hibernated for every interplanar trip, not only would they get destroyed but they would run out of energy fast. 

But fluff always says the only thing preventing orks from being strong is fighting each other. 

Necrons are really tough, but when they get their flesh bodies back it will be like killing humans with tasers. 

Eldar are in the running too (or would be if'n it wasn't for the bugs). There is all kinds of badass fluff involving them like the part about them destroying an entire ork civilization just to kill a warlord (usurped by Ghagzkull after he died) who would've had bad plans for the eldar future. Pre-emptive self defense. Is it an oxymoron? Yes. Can the eldar pull it off? Hell yes.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

piemelke said:


> I do not believe in the axiom that the chaos gods are eternal, they have been born, they will die


Testify!! Just not this week.

On the other hand, I think there's a good reason that the races who've been around hundreds of millions of years call them the Primordial Annihilator.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

piemelke said:


> I do not believe in the axioma that the chaos gods are eternal, they have been born, they will die


They are born out of us tho'. 

Our emotions create the Chaos Gods thus they will be around as long as we are unless we divorce ourselves of our emotions.


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