# Damned Fist and Wraithlord's Golden Daemon log



## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Alright folks, I have spoken with Fist about this and we have agreed to do a combined, ongoing log for the models we are both doing for the painting competition here at our local store at the end of the month. The winner of the comp gets their model auto entered into the Golden Daemon contest at Games Day this year so he and I are going to be pulling out all the stops that we can. We figure this thread will be a great way to keep each other motivated and pushing even harder and hopefully the rest of you will enjoy it as well.

I don't know yet what model he is doing up but I am going to be painting my Thousand Sons Terminator Sorcerer Lord up to the best of my abilities. I will be using my *patented* (lol) steel blue for the armour but I will be really going farther with it than normal to give it that extra smooth and realistic look. I will also be doing a lava base, using some OSL on the model and, hopefully, some freehand on the cloak. I am deliberately keeping it fairly conversion free as I want to focus entirely on the painting with only a month to go.

I will let Fist post up his reply with what he is going to do/use before I start worrying about pics. Hopefully between the two of us we can keep you eye candy whores happy


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

mmmmmm........eye candy.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Ok, here we go..., I went a totally different direction this time. I'm doing a Ork Warboss that is heavily converted.(No Imperial Fist this time) Once Wraith challenged me on this one I went nuts on this guy. I started out with the GW metal Warboss with attack squig and a Dremel then added a lot of green stuff. If that wasn't enough I created a massive base that should take FOREVER to paint. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I decided to go ahead with this as I am going to lose a lot of precious time in finishing the conversion while Wraith has most likely already started painting. :no:

Well..., off I go to add some more GS before calling it a night. Thanks to Wraith for setting this up and best of luck my friend!:victory:


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Looking forward to seeing your efforts guys. Good luck.


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## CATzeentch (Dec 25, 2007)

I entirely agree with death of angels...


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## Riandro (Feb 28, 2008)

love to see pics guys!


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## imperialdudes (Feb 25, 2008)

Same here. Love to see a picture


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

can't wait to see the finished product


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Yes I have started painting already. Worked on it all day yesterday from around....2pm till 1am in the morning. Armour now has about 8 coats of paint on it, maybe 9 as I lost track. Lava base and gaps are greenstuffed as well, (as is that Helbrecht converted champ I was working on as I had extra gs to use up :so_happy and the cape has been removed to provide me access to the rear of the model for painting. Normally wouldn't bother as it is mostly an unseen area but hey, this is for the GD after all 

Good luck to you as well Fist. Can't wait to see how it goes for you.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

11 hrs of painting already!! Dang, I'm in trouble.:no: I stayed up till 2:30am working on the GS for the cape and I am only half done it. I'm sure that it will be another late night tonight.


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## loyalist42 (Sep 7, 2007)

Daaaaaaaaamn.....

This is like a dream-log! Pics pics pics pics pics pics pleeeeeeeease.....

<Ahem.>

Yes. Well, anyway, good luck to you both; I'll be quite interested to see how you do...

:biggrin:


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

First W.I.P pics...,

Here are a few different views of the converting stage thus far. Nothing is attached together at this point (I'm leaving everything separate to paint it) This is just to give you an idea of where I am going with this. Note that the squig has broken free of his chain and will be jumping off the base about where he is positioned in the pic:


























C&C welcomed.:victory:...


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

VERY NICE! Love the cape Fist, damn that is nice.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Oh now that is nice Fist. Like Wraith said that cape is amazing. A real work of art. How did you manage to get the hairs so long?


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Jacobite said:


> Oh now that is nice Fist. Like Wraith said that cape is amazing. A real work of art. How did you manage to get the hairs so long?



I did the cape in two parts. First is to create the "skin" (Inside part) for the cape and then let it harden over night. The second step is to add the "fur" to the skin in layers starting from the bottom up.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

That cape makes me question my manly ability to paint. Time for a pic or two of my own. Here is the current state of the mini, 9 coats in and just before I start the ink washes.










Yes I know there is a ton of mess on the back, never fear as it won't show. I am also using the term cape as well and it will glue directly over this and cover it completely. I pulled it off so I could get to the back fully.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Perfect choice. The OSL from the lava will definitely make this mini stand out from all the rest. Great work thus far on the blue..., the blending is outstanding!


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

they are both really good


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

Yeah, that cloak is awesome fist. On the 25th anniversary weekend, our store had neil langdown (eavy metal team and sculptor) in to give tips and chat. He moaned about how hard he found fur to do well, 'not his strong point' was his quote. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE how long you have got the fur strands, and of course i'll be asking for a tutorial....


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## Lord Commander Erus (May 1, 2008)

Blessed Emperors Golden Throne and Matching Magazine Rack!! THAT IS BEAUTIFUL!!

I like them both, especially the ork. One of the few ork conversions I like.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

New update: got some of the washes done today so far, roughly 3 washes of purple ink with about the same amount of dark angels green washed into the darkest recesses. The first coat of the steel blue over the washes, nearly a wash itself, has gone on with a few more to go in order to get up to mithril silver highlights on the most extreme edges only.


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## Lord Commander Erus (May 1, 2008)

That is an utterly eerie color, and very fitting for Lord Tzeentch!!


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## DarknessDawns (Oct 21, 2007)

im loving it really


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## Riandro (Feb 28, 2008)

these miniatures will be godly when finished!


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Yeah, Wraith's famous eerie-blue-silver Tzeentch is at it once again!

Good luck to the both of you, Wraith and Damned Fist, but hey Wraith..

I hope you get a more-fair evaluation than you did at the GD for this than you did for your Daemon Prince.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Thanks Anph, I hope so too. Although in retrospect I understand now why it went the way it did so I can at least not make the same mistake twice.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

*Assembly Update*

Here is the final dry-fit for the Ork. Hopefully this gives you an idea of what he'll look like..., but for now-Time to Paint!:good:


















C&C (or forever hold your peace) welcomed!:victory:


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## Imperial Dragon (Dec 22, 2007)

Can't wait to see that Ork have some paint on him good job fist.

Wish my models could look like that wraithlod i really like your work.


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## Killswitch (Apr 9, 2008)

Very, very nice. I'm not a huge fan of the metallic blue, but it's looking really nice, all biases aside. The Ork's cape is fantastic. I love the fur, very good. I've been thinking about a 'Push to GD' thread to up my skill to that level in a year or so, but I've not gotten around to it with exams and tests and lack of motivation. Hopefully this will help me make it 

Stunning guys. Keep it up.

-J


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Having held that ork in my own hands I can say without a doubt that the cape is phenominal.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Wow, really nice, strong pose for the Ork! Excellent GS Skillz on the cape. 

Only thing I could comment on would be the relative 'blandness' and small size of his axe? Is there any room for customisations on there, like dents in the edge, or a spikey bit at the end for stabbing fools? Or would it detract from the rest of the model too much?

Also liking the Tsons Lord; sweet colours and a good pose, can't wait to see more!

One suggestion; could you keep a tally of the approximate hours spent on each model? I personally would find it fascinating.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Total hours so far on Tson lord: @ 18.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Hours so far..., 10ish. (Including the conversion, obviously)

I finished painting the base yesterday and began the face. (My tradition is always to paint the face first. To me it sets the tone for the rest of the model.) 

Wraith's blue is not what it seems in the pics. There are a lot of great colours going on in the blending that aren't showing up here. This will be spectacular when he is done I'm sure.k:


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

> Only thing I could comment on would be the relative 'blandness' and small size of his ax? Is there any room for customizations on there, like dents in the edge, or a spiky bit at the end for stabbing fools? Or would it detract from the rest of the model too much?


I appreciate the feed back. I was thinking of something 'grander' for his ax but all I came up with was adding clan symbols on the blades and a tassel coming off the handle. After finishing that I thought that that would suffice so as not to detract from the pointing finger. I don't know???? I'll have to decide soon. Any other thoughts anyone?


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## Riandro (Feb 28, 2008)

i think its fine as it is personally, when its painted it will look fine,


also chap's a tip to gain more points from the judges is to do some free hand work, they allways like that:wink:


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## Wolfblade (Mar 18, 2008)

I too like the axe how it is. I don't think it'll look bland when painted.

Personally, I think adding anything else will clutter it up too much; sometimes less is more.


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

The problem for me with the axe is the haft. Blade looks good but the haft is a bit panzy(thin) for my taste. Almost looks out of proportion compared to that muscly orc arm. Everything else looks great. I like the 2 layer fur cloak too. The edges look very realiatic as there is separation between the hide and the fur around the edges.


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## angels of fire (Dec 4, 2007)

Loving them both, just wondering what colour the squig was going to be as they can be some wacky colours.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

> a tip to gain more points from the judges is to do some free hand work, they allways like that


On an OrK???




> Loving them both, just wondering what colour the squig was going to be as they can be some wacky colours.


I was wondering that too:laugh:


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## Trigger (Mar 12, 2008)

Fist, Have you seen the WD where the 'Eavy metal team do Harry the Hammer? One of them has a hair painted red on his axe to look like a drip of blood. My description makes it sound shit, but I thought it looked good. Maybe try that? Just a thought.

(you could also daub blood red straight from the pot all over him!!! That would look awesome)


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

The drip uses a human hair to form the base. It has a high tensile strength and maleability for its thickness. It was then built up with a few layers of superglue then painted. It's not an original idea. I for one have a wood elf with a hair as a bow string. I doubt i was the first to use it.


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## da big boss (May 1, 2008)

looking good


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## Da Red Paintjob Grot (May 6, 2008)

lol nice thats really nice


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## Riandro (Feb 28, 2008)

Damned Fist said:


> On an OrK???


well yes, say like checker paterns or flames of things that are orky... :laugh:

i was aiming it at you AND wraith though. so.... yeah :biggrin:


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

> well yes, say like checker paterns or flames of things that are orky...


That is in the cards..., I was thinking that you meant finer detailed stuff such as skulls and battle scenes and such.:victory:


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

Damned Fist said:


> That is in the cards..., I was thinking that you meant finer detailed stuff such as skulls and battle scenes and such.:victory:


Well you could if you felt up to it. You could do a free hand tribal tattoo design on the ork and the squig. SOme clan symbols or something on the inside of the fur cape, which is awesome, to show the beast he took it from. Some of the metal plates could have imperial symbols to show where he took them from and flames on the flamer part of his gun. These are just a few things that could add style points to him but since I lack the talent to do any of it I'll let you decide. 

Both of these look great and I am enjoying watching the progress.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Blue armour is done for now (yes more to come) and I have started to pick out the trim in a dull gold colour to prepare it for washes. I am thinking of doing some freehand on the armour but I am not entirely sure what would be a good direction to go for that. Going to do a freehand symbol of Tzeentch on the cloak for sure but what to do on the armour is eluding me for now.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

morfangdakka:

A lot of good ideas there. Thanks, I'll definitely reference your post before making my final game plan. I especially like the idea of keeping symbols from some of the imperial armour that he took the metal plates from.:victory:


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

*Update: 13Hrs. total so far.*

Here is a couple of quick pics of the finished base and his face. I think that this should give you an idea where I am going on this one. The idea is to try for something a little less "cartoon" and hopefully achieve an implication of "realism"

Front of base









Back of base









And finally the face. (Boy, you can't hide anything this close up, can you?)









Hope you enjoy!:victory:


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Quick update pic here as well. Areas that are going to be gold are picked out now and the very first wash has been done with a Chestnut Ink wash. Once that dries, more ink washes, then highlights and touchups begin. Total time so far is @ 21 hours


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Wow nice work guys. Really love the blending on the horns Fist and your silver blue armour Wraith.


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## Bloodhound (Feb 8, 2007)

Fist, That head looks so good. Better than anything I could do.

Wraith, That termi is really coming along. I like it.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

"Painter's Block". I thought that I would work on the squig now,but I am rather uninspired by him. Not being an ork player I'm still not even sure what colour I want him to be???


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## Carna (Mar 13, 2008)

Make him Orange!


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## Killswitch (Apr 9, 2008)

A dark Purple looks really nice with Orks. 

A few things to remember when painting a GD Model... (They may not apply to you, but are good general tips anyway]
a) Freehand brings a lot of points. It looks impressive and shows great skill.
b) Smooth blends and shifts in paint color. No sharp edges going from one color or another will do too well. A smooth blend always looks better.
c) Thin your paint! I know this sounds basic, but clunky, chunky paint looks horrible. ALways use thin layers to build up colors.

Now, I'm not saying any of these apply, but these are a few general tips other people can use as well. Your work is good so far, and I hope it only gets better. Don't screw your model up because someone said use a certain color or something. Stick to your plan and make your color choices carefully. Keep up the hard work, and I hope more treats keep coming!

-J


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

Killswitch said:


> A dark Purple looks really nice with Orks.


Wow I was gonna say a dark purple, I guess great minds think alike.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Killswitch, damn good points. In fact a couple of them are exactly what I was told when I entered as well and was asking about the results.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

I was looking up some tropical frogs on the net and I came across this one..., I thought that this might be the look I want for the squig.










This is a close up of it's skin and I love the variegation it has in it's colours. The pic may not bring it out that great but there is purple, green, yellow, and red blended into an otherwise orange frog.


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## Killswitch (Apr 9, 2008)

One thing I encountered today made me really disappointed. I like to call this I Can Paint Well Syndrome'. I was at the store today, when one of the better painters gave a guy his commission work back. And he did a piss poor job. He had the attitude that he was good, and nothing he paints will be bad. Why do I tell you this? Because I don't want you to get that kind of attitude, as it happens to many people. They disregard the details on their minis, and I don't like seeing this. No offense or anything, I just don't want to see another GD page turn into a model that is half finished and you step away because people go 'That looks good!'. 

Now, onto more relevant stuff. On the skin matter - If you can pull that off, it'd be great, but otherwise, try to make it just look great. I love to see people try new things, but with GD, it's not always best to go head deep and find yourself drowning. So, if you know it'd be way to hard and time consuming for something like that, don't do it. Stick to a single color and blend it up and everything, make it all smooth and perfect, and maybe some free hand tattoos on the squig and such, then be done because it looks amazing then, as opposed to doing that, making it look like an Ork took a dookie on it, then mixed it with some Southern Comfort, and painted some made some markings with a sharpie. I don't mean any offense at all, as I really don't know your painting skills [I'm new here ], and I just want to offer good advice.

-J


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

I can tell you from the models I have seen posted Fist and Wraithlord are both excellent painters and very GD worthy. 

I like the skin coloration on the picture and it would look great if you can pull it off. I just wonder if you will have time to do a real quality job on it along with painting the rest of the model. I hope you won't go orange, or purple on the ork. Stick with green or a pale fleshish color so that when you don't want him, I can have it for my ork army. Actually I think any other color that gets outside the relm of green the judges don't seem to see it as ork. I have seen some really nice red orks that didn't even get a mention.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> Actually I think any other color that gets outside the relm of green the judges don't seem to see it as ork. I have seen some really nice red orks that didn't even get a mention.


Heh, sounds familiar eh Fist 


Another pic. Metal is progressing well and hopefully the pic shows it as much here as to the naked eye. Not only are there a couple of layers of gold on the trim but there are washes of dark angels green, purple and chestnut ink as well, several of each, all more water than ink to ensure a gradual buildup. Still got a long way to go on this model however and while doing the trim I noticed parts of the armour that I have to touch up as well, most notably on the sides of the chest where the blending turned out a lot less smoothly than I had thought.










Pic to the left is the previous one I posted. Thought I would put them side by side for comparison.


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## Killswitch (Apr 9, 2008)

Looking good so far. I like the improvement, the metallic blue is starting to impress me more and more with the gradual buildup. Keep up the fantastic work.

-J


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

> Actually I think any other color that gets outside the relm of green the judges don't seem to see it as ork. I have seen some really nice red orks that didn't even get a mention.
> Heh, sounds familiar eh Fist


Hummm..., where have I heard that before??

morfangdakka: No. He will be green as is depicted on the head shot on the previous page. Wraith lectured me long about trying something 'outside of the box' when it came to orks. Thanks for the input though.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

> One thing I encountered today made me really disappointed. I like to call this I Can Paint Well Syndrome'. I was at the store today, when one of the better painters gave a guy his commission work back. And he did a piss poor job. He had the attitude that he was good, and nothing he paints will be bad. Why do I tell you this? Because I don't want you to get that kind of attitude, as it happens to many people. They disregard the details on their minis, and I don't like seeing this. No offense or anything, I just don't want to see another GD page turn into a model that is half finished and you step away because people go 'That looks good!'.


I'm not sure if something is implied here or not..., but realistically I haven't even won a *local* painting contest let alone a Golden Daemon. As for the page, my hope is that with the great advice coming from people like yourself and the "rivalry" between Wraith and I that it will help us to do better than would have if we just did it alone. I know personally that I have already tried new things that I would not have if Wraith didn't set this post up. So, again, thanks to those who do offer their opinions.:victory:

Wraith: Dude.., every time I think that I am making progress you post another incredible pic! Really looking good. {Sighs} Well, back to work.


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## Lord Khorne (May 6, 2008)

Nice, very nice


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## Killswitch (Apr 9, 2008)

@Fist - No implications, more of a warning. It tends to happen a lot, and people like to half-ass when they are told something is good already. Just want to tell you what can happen as a warning to keep it from happening.

-J


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

*Hours thus far: 17.5hrs.*

Update on the completed squig. I've also been working on the cape but I'll have to post the pics later.


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## Lord Khorne (May 6, 2008)

That is one gnarly squig!


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## DarknessDawns (Oct 21, 2007)

im loving the tongue on the squig


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## Steel Nathan (Apr 26, 2008)

Oh my.... that tounge looks soo real. It makes me NOt want to touch it *shudders*. Oooooo both of your models looks so sweet. Good job to the both of you :biggrin:


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## Carna (Mar 13, 2008)

Yay my suggestion was listened to! Looks awesome Fist!


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

I saw the squig at work the other day and these pics don't do it justice really. Fist, these pics are decent for wip shots. For a full on finished shot you will want to adjust the lighting a bit but these are fine for wips.


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## da big boss (May 1, 2008)

go fist:victory:


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## Tinkerbell (Feb 19, 2008)

Awsome work guys... cant wait to see them finished k:

Tink


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## bloodthrister (Mar 29, 2008)

those mini's are sooooo awesome!!!

@wraith: are you going to paint an eye on the staff, helmet, book and leg armor?
Ive encircled (in blue, to stay with the ts theme XD) the parts I mean on this pic: 









So he'll end up like this guy: (then Im only reverring to the parts with a circle on your pic  )









@fist: looks damn awesome already!!!

cant wait to see the end results guys!!!


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## Killswitch (Apr 9, 2008)

@ Fist - I don't like it. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but, I think it will detract from the model. It will take the eyes away from the main model, due to it's bright color. That, and the fact it's a larger detail (not a small one) and it's just so much of the color, it will be hard to get the eyes back to the model at first, where they should be.

-J


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

> Fist - I don't like it. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but, I think it will detract from the model. It will take the eyes away from the main model, due to it's bright color.


You may be right. The actual squig is more muted than what the pic depicts, but we'll have to see when it is finished.:victory:


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## frost_reaver (Dec 15, 2007)

Very nice work, both of you.
Fist, I think the squig looks great, but Killswitch may have a point. I'll reserve judgement until I see more.


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

Wow, these models are great. I can't wait to see them finished


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

> Actually I think any other color that gets outside the relm of green the judges don't seem to see it as ork.


There was an article in a reasonably recent WD that confirmed that officially, if you don't paint your orks green, you can't win a GD with it. As you could imagine, I was livid when reading this, as it is hypocritical in the extreme, since they've featured blue goblins in WD in the past. It disgusts me quite frankly. Also, sounds like theres a story there wraith, PM me about it maybe?

Anyway, this is a real treat to come back to, since i'm stuck revising and prepping for my work placement virtually 24/7.

The squig looks great fist, as does the head, and i ove the skin how youve painted it. As has been commented, the tongue on the squig rocks my world.

Wraith, i'm certain those pics arn't doing your termie justice, as on some of them, you can see vthe subtle inking, on others you cannot. I'm wondering just what else i'm missing


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

*Update: 20.5hrs*

Here is a quick update of where I am at. The skin on the body is complete as well as his clothing. I am starting to pick out the rest of the details on his body such as the armour plates, bones, teeth, etc... The armour still needs the free hand to be completed and then the weathering. Last will be the weapons, shoulder pads, and then the banner.


















..., and a partially assembled look;










Just an update. Lots of work still left to do as you can see.


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## Killswitch (Apr 9, 2008)

It's getting there. Some more work and some Matte varnish to fix the shine should help.

-J


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## Carna (Mar 13, 2008)

Looking awesome Fist, hope one of you actually and win and not someone else


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## da big boss (May 1, 2008)

hare is my way of doing ork skin http://redpaintjobgrotz.wetpaint.com/page/How+it+was+done and i dont use any sort of wash


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

this stuff is simply amazing guys. it inspires me to get onto something. ahwell, i have an army to finish first (sigh).

great work, keep it up guys.


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## The Lions Sword (May 16, 2008)

Wow i cant wait to see it all finished


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Well it looks like Carna is rooting for you Fist . First time someone here has chosen a side for this log lol. Anyway, small update pic for you guys. Metals are done for the most part and now comes the fun stuff: details. Spend some time last night just doing the red areas and got them to about half of where they need to be in some places, just started in others.


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

Wow, that's looking better than it has any right to. The metals are perfect! Especially the bronzy bitz.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

> Well it looks like Carna is rooting for you Fist . First time someone here has chosen a side for this log


He may just have an ork bias:wink: Besides, after seeing your progress the other night at work I thought that I should probably spend a little time picking out my next bride's-maid dress.:ireful2:


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

I'm ork bias as well and while Fist is doing a great job on his boss. Wraith has cranked out his usual top notch stuff that thing is beautiful.

So keep up the great work both of you.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

*Hours to date: 23hrs.*

Here is a sneak peek at some of the freehand that will be on this piece. For those who don't know, my army is the Imperial Fist. You may be able to spot their influence on this guy.:victory:



















Let me know what you think!


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Geez..., Something went awry with those pics. Let's try this again:










Ok, that's better


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## Trigger (Mar 12, 2008)

Love it. I take it its the little touches that draw the judges eye?


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

both are looking good :good::grin:


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## Riandro (Feb 28, 2008)

these are coming along well! 

just one thing though fist, when is the last time you say a shiny ork? it doesnt look quite right in my opinion. might be the photo's.

but anyway keep it up!


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Riandro said:


> these are coming along well!
> 
> just one thing though fist, when is the last time you say a shiny ork? it doesnt look quite right in my opinion. might be the photo's.
> 
> but anyway keep it up!


Yes, it is the photos.:angry: It's doesn't look like that in hand. Plus, when it is finished it will be sealed with a matte varnish that will also aid in toning down any shine that remains.




> Love it. I take it its the little touches that draw the judges eye?


Trigger: I don't know??? I hope so.



Thanks:victory:


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## Da Red Paintjob Grot (May 6, 2008)

don't like the t.son. Your painting ability is awesome, and i wish i was a 1/5 that good, but thousand sons should not be metal. faded, yes, but not metal and damned fist thank god i wont be entering in the same category as you (I still love wraithlords painting). i watch your threads to learn how to paint better.


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## pyroanarchist (Feb 29, 2008)

This thread is coming along fast. I didn't check in on it last week and had a good bit of eye candy to catch up on. I love both models guys, keep up the good work. I think you've both got a good shot.

@ Fist. I really like the subtle iconography on the model. I really think that will impress judges. I'd love to see a shot of the Warboss next to the Squig though, as stated previously I'm also a bit worried the squig will draw the eye too much. It looks great, but may take attention away from the Warboss. I think you've compensated for it with the colouring you've used on the boss, but I'd still like to know what they look like together.

@ Wraith. I'm never less than amazed by your attention to detail on your models. The Sorc is coming along great and I can't wait to see it finished. I'm curious what your plans are for the eye icons as well.


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

Personally I think Wraith's painting is exquisite and while I have fallen in love with Fist's conversion I keep finding my eyes drifting towards the Sorcerer.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Thanks for the comments folks, I appreciate it. Fist is absolutely right about the pics not showing the model off right as it looks much better first hand. He brought it in to work the other night and I just had to shake my head at how good it looks. The skin on that thing is just...wow.

For mine, I started in on the cloak last session and brought it up to about the level of the loincloth. Ink washes are needed now to blend it all together a bit better and then final layers. After that the major large areas will be done and the detail work can begin in earnest.

Grot: why don't you like the tson exactly?


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

looking really good guys. My only criticism would be they look a little too standard for golden daemon. i'm loving the work you guys have put in but just think it needs something wow to make it stand out from other orc warbosses/chaos sorcerrors


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

I like how the ork is comming--it looks nice-- but i do have to take side with jig here.

The ork looks pretty standard (and I know the base and rest of his gear isn't finished..)

And Wraith. I hate to sound like an arrogant asshole who thinks he can paint better than you, because I know for a fact I cannot based on all other things you have created. 

But here it goes, plain and simple: I think your Lord is..is..plain and lacking a "pop" factor and..

The blue-ish armour (if that is, as you say, final) is a let down. It doesn't seem very original or cool. 

Also, I think the bronze/gold throughout the model is extremely overpowering. Extremely. It looks decent but (and I know you hate NMM) I think it looks rather flat. 

I think you have amazing abilities that have only the ability to grow and get stronger. I would like to suggest seriously cosidering NMM. If you could create NMM like the pros I know that would be a HUGE factor in your pieces being judged high.

And it sounds a bit silly, I know, but i think the armour should have some type of blue glow, maybe emanating from the edges. This, in turn, would allow you to paint source-lighting-which i know is awesome when down right.

You can also create the source-lighting effect from up from the lava base.

Sorry again to be critical of a work you have dedicated so much time and effort into. I just want to say anything I can to make you better...If anything I say can help you win a GD, thats all i want.

-Anph


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## Lord Khorne (May 6, 2008)

I reckon the ork is better than the lord. The Lord is very run of the mill. I know I couldn't paint that but you don't have a hope of winning the GD lookin like that. Any model my ex-local hobby store owner has in his shop that he has painted looks better than that.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

> But here it goes, plain and simple: I think your Lord is..is..plain and lacking a "pop" factor and..
> 
> The blue-ish armour (if that is, as you say, final) is a let down. It doesn't seem very original or cool.





> I think you have amazing abilities that have only the ability to grow and get stronger. I would like to suggest seriously cosidering NMM. If you could create NMM like the pros I know that would be a HUGE factor in your pieces being judged high.





> You can also create the source-lighting effect from up from the lava base.


The biggest problem here is that the pictures are not bringing out the amount of detail in Wraith's mini. The armour is exceptional as there are other colours blended into the "metallic blue" that when you see it in person really make it stand out. Personally, I'm not opposed to NMM's but they would definitely not work in this instance as they would clash HUGE with the metallic blue of the armour. Besides..., if you look at a lot of the GD winners elsewhere this year many are shying away from the NMM's in favour of more realistic looking metals. (Which Wraith is very skilled at) Last, the OSL is the final step in the painting of the mini. Again, if you look at Wraiths other TS you will get a good idea of how great of an effect this is going to be.

I'm not trying to downplay your opinion (As your input is one of the reasons this post was started) But to be honest, this is the best work that I have seen Wraith do to date and I'm sure when you see the final result you will be blown away!:victory:


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## Killswitch (Apr 9, 2008)

One of the major problems with photographing minis, is that you loose a lot of detail with inkings and blendings. The flash and camera itself flush out a lot of standard detail as well. Really, I believe the Lord would look a lot better in person, as every mini almost always does.

Onto some criticism...(nothing too bad )

On the Ork... Some Freehand Tattoos wouldn't be out of hand here
On the TS... Some Freehand would really step this model up, as it does on every mini. I'll comment some more on the new pics!

-J


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## TrentLanthier (Apr 28, 2008)

Damned Fist said:


> Personally, I'm not opposed to "NMM's" but they would definitely not work in this instance as they would clash HUGE with the metallic blue of the armour.
> 
> Last, the OSL is the final step in the painting of the mini.


I'm really new at all this can someone give me some help with some acronyms?

What is NMM and OSL?


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## Trigger (Mar 12, 2008)

NMM stands for Non Metallic Metal, its a technique of painting a metallic effect without using metallic paint (in vogue at the moment)
OSL is Object Source Lighting, which is where you paint the model to look like it has a light source directed at it (usually uplit). I have tried this and its a lot harder to get a good look than it first seems!


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

> On the Ork... Some Freehand Tattoos wouldn't be out of hand here


I like the idea but the lack of smooth surface on his skin makes this next to impossible. What I did do, however, is a lot of free hand on the metal plates.(Shoulder pads, ab protector, gun..., etc.) I still have to finish up the weapons, banner, and his glove, but he is almost finished. This is the last week so we have to get moving now!


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Yeah, im of course hating not being able to see these minis in person.

Lighting is such a bitch on minis. 

For instance, on Wraith's Tson, the ram's/daemon's skull in the center looks horribly simple, yet the staff head and the greaves look awesome. 

And the lighting im sure is horrid on the armour--Im just saying what I can see, i mean, what else can I go by.:dunno:

I just know NMM can look amazing when done well. Look at Magmatrax--
http://www.coolminiornot.com/64201

Some might say it is cartoony, but really..I think it looks damned realistic and I can _definitely _imagine those color-shadings in real life if that monster was sitting in front of me.

Some might say the use of metallic paints and such like on Wraith's Tson is too grunge, too dirty, too _dark._

And of course...The model ain't done! No model looks _totally _brilliant until all the details and base etc. is done.

I'm just hoping for that GD for yall, no matter what.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Thanks for the words Fist, I appreciate that.

To answer some of the crits given here (greatly appreciated btw) I will say that the model is nowhere NEAR done yet. There will be freehand going on it, I haven't taken a pic of the cloak yet which will also have freehand done, etc. There will also be a fair bit of OSL on this model in the end as well. Only a week to go however......

Oh and for the record regarding NMM: Never. Not a chance in hell. Words cannot describe how much I DESPISE the look of NMM and I will never in a million years put it on a model of mine. I know it is in vogue right now and if it prevents me from ever winning a GD then so be it. Never.


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## Killswitch (Apr 9, 2008)

@Fist - It works well on the flesh if you shade and highlight it like normal. Say, a black tattoo, would be black in the deepest recesses, and a very dark grey at the highest. (I use either a 2:1 CBlack:Adeptus Battle Grey or a 1:1)

@Wraith - No unkind words were meant from me, I'm sorry if I offended. I was simply offering some advice, as Freehand really jumps out to judges.

On the subject of NMM...I somewhat agree with Wraith. It looks good if you ask me (my main disagreement) but not good enough for the amount of work to justify it. I almost never use it (once or twice) and still prefer glazed metals to get the effect I want.

-J


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## DarknessDawns (Oct 21, 2007)

im really inspired to do some painting now 
gah!
and guys 
THEY LOOK FREAKING AWSOME


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Thats about the reaction to NMM i expected from you, Wraith haha. :wink:




Killswitch said:


> It looks good if you ask me (my main disagreement) but not good enough for the amount of work to justify it.


Killswitch-- a GD-winning model is made from massive amounts of time and dedication. I think if you can create that awesome NMM effect, I think one should go for it. Time should not be an issue.


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## Sniper (Mar 9, 2008)

Wow.....:shok:
I just read the ENTIRE thread damn u guys r gooD thw tsons looks great wraith, as does that ork uh one tip though for wraith would be if u have time add a familier that allways adds character maybe a warped grot or something
eh anyway i hope u guys finish intime and end pics should be great

Sniper


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## Wiggles 3.0 (May 13, 2008)

damn, how do u guys take good pics like that?


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## Argitist (Apr 29, 2008)

Yeah, I like the familiar idea, don't know what would be best for it though. 

Anyways, Wraith it's looking so strong please please please finish it all!!! (Preferably before hand, some times you wake up in the middle of the night and realize it needs something ya know)
And Fist, Really can't wait for the finished subject, your getting so close!


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Wiggles 3.0 said:


> damn, how do u guys take good pics like that?



Try reading through this tut. It made a huge difference for me!

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=314



..., Almost completed now after getting a lot done on the weekend. I have to finish the banner and then assemble it and voila! Tonight I'm going to let Wraith take a peek and add any comments or criticisms and then I will post a few more pic's before the weekend.

Hours to date: 33hrs


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Fist brought in his nearly finished model to work the night before last to show to me and I nearly lost the will to continue painting my own. Just a spectacular job done on it with AMAZING blending and freehand. It made me sad.

I did come out of my fugue however and got down to brass tacks on mine as well last night. Finished off a number of small things left undone, did some clean up and started in on some of the OSL. Freehand will be started today after I get up with some fairly ambitious ideas to attempt. I am going to try making faces on the cloak (both inside and out) that are glowing from within while also doing what will look like gold thread on the loincloth. I also intend on painting glowing runes on him as well along with a glowing symbol on his right shoulder.

I can see the end. I have lost count but I am roughly around the 30 hour mark as well.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Thanks for the kind words Wraith. I have a few small items to finish up and then I will post the completed pics sometime after the competition on Saturday.:victory:


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## jordan_darko (Mar 26, 2008)

Looking good guys cant wait to see them both finished.


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## LoreMaster (May 20, 2008)

Those are both some very impressive models. I admire your abilities and the time you've been pouring into the models, look forward to seeing the finished articles and the results of your competition.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Quick question for y'all...,

I'm making a display base and I have some space to add some writing. So I was thinking;

1) Da Boss

2) I'z Da Boss

3) Get'em Boyz

..., Or any other ideas you may have. One catch though, I have to finish it tonight.


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## Death 0F Angels (Feb 27, 2008)

Whatever you write should either be comedic or verry killy me thinks. like boss'es up, grotz down.
Cryz Havok n letz looze them squigs of war. (kinda long but i like the referece)
Givz'em hel boyz...
Youz grotz wanna livz foreva????
my fave:if youz can read this, youz dead
tiz a good day tu die
tryin to think of somethin shorter as these are prolly too long.
bware ov squig
how bout a classic: WAAAAGH!!!


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## nightmare12369 (Dec 21, 2007)

Waagh or Da Boss both sound cool.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Givz'em hel boyz...

Da boss


Hummmm..., "bware ov squig" (I think that I can work with that)

I like both:good:.. . Thanks for the help! Any last thoughts?


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## zenfarr (Nov 25, 2007)

@Fist, just keep on doin what you're doing, there's no further advice I could supply you.
@Wraith, I bet it's just the camera, but the metallic blue(a lovely idea)looks just a little sloppy. But on the other hand, I have never seen a gold painting technique as amazing as yours. 

I hope I see a thread about one of your winning models, Great Job Both of You!


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

*Finished War Boss*

Total hours: 45ish(lost track at the end)

Here he is.:biggrin:

The contest was today and I finally won one. There really wasn't a lot of models there but it was very close between Wraith and I. Now, a few touch ups and changes and he is off to GD. Wish me luck! (I'll need lots of it)


















































Thanks to all those who offered comments and suggestions. As you can see some of them were incorporated into this one.


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## ACoz (Oct 23, 2007)

Congratulations on the win.

You definately earned it.

(Wraith's work was awesome, too, so not taking anything away from him, either.)


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## CallumM27 (Mar 20, 2008)

its truely amazing Fist, well done for the win :good: which GD are you entering him into?


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

> Congratulations on the win.
> 
> You definately earned it.





> its truely amazing Fist, well done for the win


Thanks!




> which GD are you entering him into?



Canada..., next month.


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## Alexander_67 (May 5, 2007)

Congratulations Fist, you earned it and then some. He looks all sorts of crazy awesome. 

Now we just need wraith to post his so we can compare


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

Oooooooh! That looks fantastic! I wish I could paint/model like that! Rep given


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## Carna (Mar 13, 2008)

Awesome job! Congrats Fist


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

Yeah the orks win again.

Nice job Fist the checks and the looted inperial bits are a nice touch to the boss. Good luck next month, I'll be cheering you on. Now off to get to work on my project for the GD in August.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

> Now off to get to work on my project for the GD in August.



Morfangdakka;
Chicago? 
What are you entering??


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## zenfarr (Nov 25, 2007)

Fist that model looks fantastic, what category are you going to put it in?


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

zenfarr said:


> Fist that model looks fantastic, what category are you going to put it in?



40K single:victory:


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## zenfarr (Nov 25, 2007)

Damned Fist said:


> 40K single:victory:


cool thnx, best of luck to ya:good:


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Congrats to Fist on the win, it was well deserved. I went to town on my own model but Fist really pulled it off with his, it it just an incredibly work of art. I actually knew 3 days before the contest that he was going to take the win this time when he showed it to me nearly finished at work. Again, well deserved my friend :clapping:

And now here is my second placing entry, a little late but hey, I had to console myself after all


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## Ludoldus (Apr 8, 2008)

Bravo to both of you, and congrats on the first and second place. Love the ork warboss, and Wraith, while i've got to admit i didn't really like your mini before, seeing it in its finished state changed my mind completely... The Lava Lighting effect is amazing! 

Congratulations again to both of you, and good luck!


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

To be honest after seeing Wraithlords final entry I think his is better, but they are both incredible. Well done to both of you. Good luck in the GD Fist.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

> Congrats to Fist on the win, it was well deserved. I went to town on my own model but Fist really pulled it off with his, it it just an incredibly work of art. I actually knew 3 days before the contest that he was going to take the win this time when he showed it to me nearly finished at work. Again, well deserved my friend


Thanks Wraith! But I did not share your confidence that I would steal this one. Now that you posted your pic's everyone can see why. Again, outstanding work on your guy! Your metallics, OSL, and freehand are exceptionalk:. This was very close and I know the judges had a difficult time deciding.(I honestly think that it could have gone either way)

Very well done my friend~!:victory:


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

Damned Fist said:


> Morfangdakka;
> Chicago?
> What are you entering??


 
Los Angeles on August 23rd.

Open Catagory with a fully converted Landraider that is the size of a baneblade.

40K Single it is going to be my Ork Big mek with Kustom Force Field(WIP pick in the conversion contest thread) or the Custom Weirdboy I am currently building.

So I may be bugging you and Wraith to get your opinion on things.

Oh and good luck to both of you at Gamesday lets hope both of you come back with trophies.


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Nice, Wraith! Wish I could see it in person. 

Good luck at the GD you two, represent homedogs!


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## koosbeer (Feb 25, 2008)

Very very well done guys. Both models looks great! Im well impressed and again it cements you guys as pros! Well done!


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## Sniper (Mar 9, 2008)

:shok: WOW :shok:
Not much more to say lol there both brilliant guys and its great to hear that 1st AND 2nd went to Heresy members. Anyway I can see what your saying Fist Wraith's was great, lighting effects especially 
Anyway well done and good luck at the GD

Sniper


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

Once again guys, thanks for your comments and suggestions. The encouragement you gave really built up our confidence! Thanks again!:so_happy:

If you get a chance give a vote @ Coolmini on these...

http://www.coolminiornot.com/192289

http://www.coolminiornot.com/192404


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## Dracomancer (Jun 6, 2008)

Very impressive work from both of you, i'm especially impressed by the weathering and the cloak on the ork warboss, brilliant stuff! k:
*votes accordingly*


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