# What could take out Paladin Deathstar in CC



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

What Unit/Squad build, Point for Point, or close to it, can take down a Paladin Deathstar in CC? 

I was Listening to some people talk of a tatic of beating or outdoing the Paladin Deathstar in CC. I myself thought if it wasnt for the damn GK anti Daemon a Fate Crusher build could, but they're Daemons so lose instantly. Maybe Abaddon and Typhus combo with Tzeentch Termies outfitted with LCs and PF? Expensive as hell but could kill Paladins of Same Point Value.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I imagine a single Terminator Assault Squad could beat Paladins without a lot of trouble. 3+ invuls trump force weapons and thunder hammers don't care about 2 wounds per model.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

TH/SS Terminators.

Or else a Swarmlord would probably slaughter them.
- Boneswords (so insta-kill)
- Uber stats
- Force them to re-roll inv
- 4+ inv
- Has initiative and WS over them.
- etc etc
Not to mention the fact he is a fraction of the cost.


EDIT: Ninja'd by Katie.


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

KingOfCheese said:


> TH/SS Terminators.
> 
> Or else a Swarmlord would probably slaughter them.
> - Boneswords (so insta-kill)
> ...



Swarmlord is not immune to ID and would likely get killed on the first turn of combat. Banner = auto force weapons and you only need 1 to get through.

Hammer/Shield Terminators is the correct answer. Wounds dont matter, FNP doesnt matter, they wound on 2+ and get a 3+ save all around.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

JelloSea said:


> Swarmlord is not immune to ID and would likely get killed on the first turn of combat. Banner = auto force weapons and you only need 1 to get through.
> 
> Hammer/Shield Terminators is the correct answer. Wounds dont matter, FNP doesnt matter, they wound on 2+ and get a 3+ save all around.


Whoops, i thought he was EW.
Oh well, TH/SS Termies it is.




EDIT:
Actually, Killa Kanz would probably do well to, and are nowhere near the points cost.
You could probably have 8 or more Killa Kanz to 5 Paladin.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

My solution to a Paladin Deathstar unit with Draigo was to charge it with 20 ASM w/ FC, 5 Honour Guard w/ Power Weapons and FC, (Powerfist in each squad) and 5 TH/SS termies with Preferred Enemy and a Libby.

It really depends on their loadout though, because if they lack enough Hammers/Staves then a Furioso or two with Talons can really fuck up their day.


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## Zakath (Feb 23, 2011)

Damn, I already got excited but then noticed that the unit was supposed to be of same points value... The 30 man Death Company unit all with two thunder hammers would've surely done the trick! How about Genestealers? Going first with a load of attacks and rending while still having lots of bodies to kill?


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I think Stealers would get their asses handed to them - they cause enough wounds so that the GK player can double up Rendings onto the Stave(s) while assigning normals to other guys. 2+ against everything, with FNP vs non-Rending as well. You really want enough Power Weapons/Fists that are able to survive the Halberd attacks in order to maximise casualties.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Another Paladin Deathstar unit.....


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Probably the nightbringer they need hammer hand to hurt him and can't use there force weapons then.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

My usual approach to units like this is their own points worth of hormagaunts... 

Maybe not this time though. :scratchhead: 

Killa kanz.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Wow I thought the Swarmlord would be viable, but he gets ID. 

Night Bringer and Deacever Combo......

Another Paladin Deathstar, excellent answere.

So probaly Vulkan Hestan in your army and the good old TH/SS Termie Squad for the epic win. What about Bilial and TH/SS Deathwing as well? Or a Heavy TH/SS heavy Logan Wing? They dont even need to be all Termies either. Plus Counter Attack and Wolfs Banner.

Keep em coming if you think it will work, I refuse to belive their the baddest CC unit/build for their points cost, and rape any other CC unit in the game.


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## Supersonic Banana (Jul 23, 2010)

the nightbringer works fantastically but watch out for the hammers as he doesnt have EW


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Force weapon hammers......Are they serious?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Yes... yes I think they are. What does a Star God Fear, no one really... until now. Your Ctan have been Knoked down to wimpering cry babies, thanks to Matt Wards GKs.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

If his passion for Space Marines translates as well into the Necron codex then C'tan will literally kill everything on a 2+. With a re-roll. Ignoring armour and invulnerable saves. And ignoring EW.


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

Stephen_Newman said:


> If his passion for Space Marines translates as well into the Necron codex then C'tan will literally kill everything on a 2+. With a re-roll. Ignoring armour and invulnerable saves. And ignoring EW.


To be fair, that is a 3 point upgrade.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Warlock in Training said:


> Keep em coming if you think it will work, I refuse to belive their the baddest CC unit/build for their points cost, and rape any other CC unit in the game.


They don't, who told you this? There's no one model/unit in the game that beats every other close combat unit in the game every time, even the Nightbringer can fall from time to time to Abaddon, Draigo, Mephiston, the Swarmlord and others.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Seer councils with the usually plethora of buffs alongside Yriel could work?


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Katie Drake said:


> They don't, who told you this? There's no one model/unit in the game that beats every other close combat unit in the game every time, even the Nightbringer can fall from time to time to Abaddon, Draigo, Mephiston, the Swarmlord and others.


Correct.

Everything has a weakness.

For example...
TH/SS Termies are great against opponents with high toughness/armour/etc and low in number, but get absolutely slaughtered by things like a mob of Boyz, FRFSRF, or basically anything at all that focuses more on quantity than quality.

Paladins get slaughtered by Kanz and TH/SS Termies in combat, but there isnt a whole lot else.







But i have a very important question for the OP..... why do you assume they are going to make it into combat at full strength? Or even make it at all?
A couple of Demolisher blasts will absolutely SLAUGHTER the whole entire unit, even if its a massive deathstar unit, and there goes half the opponents army.
Game, set, match.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Its a Shut Up to half the GK players who are fielding this. Yes I can smash them from afar, been done, but I need to squash their falsehoods of the unit being the best in CC ever. So TH/SS sound nice. Point for Point I should outnumber them in Termies I think. And Take Vulcan Hestan for Rerolls.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Warlock in Training said:


> Its a Shut Up to half the GK players who are fielding this. Yes I can smash them from afar, been done, but I need to squash their falsehoods of the unit being the best in CC ever. So TH/SS sound nice. Point for Point I should outnumber them in Termies I think. And Take Vulcan Hestan for Rerolls.


I see your point, but try to realize that they're taking a death star unit. That right there is a massive self-insult on their part because they're just asking to be crippled in one fell swoop. It's your duty as their opponent to show them the error of their ways.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

But it is so much more fun to crush their souls as you destroy their 'bad ass' unit and then take the army that is left and sweep it up piecemeal all the while telling them that they are the reason that abortions should be legal until the kid turns 18 ....


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

OIIIIIIO said:


> But it is so much more fun to crush their souls as you destroy their 'bad ass' unit and then take the army that is left and sweep it up piecemeal all the while telling them that they are the reason that abortions should be legal until the kid turns 18 ....


:thank_you:


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## SlamHammer (Mar 28, 2011)

Inquisitor Hector Rex - 175
Grey Knight Librarian (Staff, Might, Quickening) - 195
3 Death Cult Assassins

That's 400pts. Its has I10 S5 attacks, it has Sanctuary to make them charge through Difficult and Dangerous, it has 2 models with 2+ Invul saves. Also it can use Instant Death on them. 

Killing Grey Knights with Grey Knights....that's how I do it.


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## Trihnicus (Oct 8, 2010)

equal points? boyz... slugga choppa boyz. oh yes and kanz... It could be done with Grots particularly with those attack reducing runtherdz

Paladins fall to grot spam... biggest insult in the history of Warhammer.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Trihnicus said:


> equal points? boyz... slugga choppa boyz. oh yes and kanz... It could be done with Grots particularly with those attack reducing runtherdz
> 
> Paladins fall to grot spam... biggest insult in the history of Warhammer.


Boyz actually might not do it.
Only 1 in every 72 attacks will take off a wound, and they can just use wound allocation to distribute them evenly.
So to take out a 5-man squad, you would need 720 attacks.
If the Boyz charge, then you will ONLY need 360 attacks.

Either way, your striking last, and going to lose combat, so may as well double the Ork casualties from No Retreat wounds.

I think Kanz and TH/SS Termies are the way to go.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I'm not sure you could call it a falsehood to call them the best CC unit ever. Yeah you might be able to contrive a situation where X or Y is better but in general terms they are the best.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> I'm not sure you could call it a falsehood to call them the best CC unit ever. Yeah you might be able to contrive a situation where X or Y is better but in general terms they are the best.


Meh, i still think Nob Bikers are better overall.
They have twice the movement, a cover save, same inv, same FNP, etc.
Except the Nobz are cheaper, better weapons (shooting and CC), higher strength, and that all important higher toughness.
Mobility makes them a clear winner though IMO.
(This is comparing the 2 units against ALL units, not just each other)

You can destroy a Paladins transport and ignore them most of the game, where as you cant ignore a squad of Nob Bikers.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I think it's a close run thing between Nob bikers and Paladins, for me the Psycannons and All power weapons all the time edge it slightly. Nobz have some really good points, maneuverable, 4+ cover save so it is very close. Obviously you never want to go near paladins with your Bikers but luckily you don't have to. But we're looking at straight up CC prowess here so Paladin have the edge.


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## TAU4297 (Feb 19, 2011)

Well a good face off for a paladin deathstar wolud be a sword brethren CC termie squad of 8 with 3 TH/SS an 5 lightning claws with perferd enemy/furious charge


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Do Paladins ignore Inv Saves somehow? If not then a Farseer and Seer Jetbike Council, could do it. Doom them, drop a few of those HF templates down, one guy Emboldens, cast Fortune on your guys, and Charge. They're wounding on 2+ and survivng with a rerollable 4+ Inv. Runes of Warding and Runes of Witnessing helps hinder GKs Psychecks and helps you. Or to make the squad cheaper leave the Jetbikes out and run 2 Seer Councils on Foot. Yes, No?


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> Do Paladins ignore Inv Saves somehow? If not then a Farseer and Seer Jetbike Council, could do it. Doom them, drop a few of those HF templates down, one guy Emboldens, cast Fortune on your guys, and Charge. They're wounding on 2+ and survivng with a rerollable 4+ Inv. Runes of Warding and Runes of Witnessing helps hinder GKs Psychecks and helps you. Or to make the squad cheaper leave the Jetbikes out and run 2 Seer Councils on Foot. Yes, No?


I thought about that, but they still get their 2+ save and FNP don't they?
They only count as S9 against vehicles. Against Infantry, they just wound on 2's.

So you will need to inflict at least 120 wounds to take down a 5-man Paladin squad.... and Warlocks only have 1 attack each....
(120 wounds, 20 failed saves, 10 failed FNP's, 2 wounds each)


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## Mannimarco (Apr 27, 2011)

Id be interested in pitting my own deathstar against them:

Lord Zhufor with his terminator retinue (he has a special rule letting you take a Khornate termy bodyguard) upgraded to champions with twin lightning claws.

Zhufor himself capable of hammering out multiple S10 powerfist hits or initiative 1 or multiple S5 power weapon hits at I5 combined with a tonne of lightining claw attacks coming from his bodyguard unit should tear a chunk out of anything it hits.

As with most deathstars the best way of dealing with them is to shoot them, the only reason you should engage one in HTH is if your going for the kudos of taking out a deathstar in hand to hand combat.


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

Archon w/ shadowfield, huskblade, soultrap & drugs. Hope for +1 attack, +1 strength or reroll to wound (probably your best bet here). 6 attacks @ WS7, I7 means you're hitting first, probably getting 4 hits & assuming you haven't been able to suck up anyone's souls beforehand you're probably securing 2 or 3 wounds - which may remove 2 models. If you have sucked up someone's soul beforehand you're wounding on 2's (hopefully with the reroll) so you should tag all 4 & probably remove 3.

The remaining (2) guys swing back, hitting on 4's so that should be 3 hits, probably wounding on 3's so that's 2 wounds & you pray your SF holds out=)

145 point character & a bit of luck?


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

2 exorcists would do the job pretty well.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

asianavatar said:


> 2 exorcists would do the job pretty well.


So would 2 Executioners. 

But i think this is supposed to be more of a CC thing anyway.


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## OrdoMalleus (Apr 24, 2009)

5 GK termies with a librarian and Brotherhood banner. Libarian casts quicksilver (I10) and the brotherhood banner activates their force weapon. Every wound inflicts ID according to C:GK and im going first. May be worth taking Falchions to maximise the number of attacks.


The fact that ive just killed of my own codexs deathstar unit with a unit half the points is beside the point.......


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

clever handle said:


> Archon w/ shadowfield, huskblade, soultrap & drugs. Hope for +1 attack, +1 strength or reroll to wound (probably your best bet here). 6 attacks @ WS7, I7 means you're hitting first, probably getting 4 hits & assuming you haven't been able to suck up anyone's souls beforehand you're probably securing 2 or 3 wounds - which may remove 2 models. If you have sucked up someone's soul beforehand you're wounding on 2's (hopefully with the reroll) so you should tag all 4 & probably remove 3.
> 
> The remaining (2) guys swing back, hitting on 4's so that should be 3 hits, probably wounding on 3's so that's 2 wounds & you pray your SF holds out=)
> 
> 145 point character & a bit of luck?


A Paladin deathstar should have a Grand Master in there, and if he has a Halberd he hits at I7 too. Rad grenades mean you can really enjoy your Toughness 2, and Psychotrokes might make you I1, or a multitude of other effects. They strike first, wound you on 2s, and Force Weapons that don't require a psychic test. Hell, they'd ID you even without a banner for psychic tests. Don't Grey Knights also get some invulnerable-save-fether power like the Marines Null Zone? If they do then the Shadowfield just won't hold.

Midnight


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

I would just say linebreaker squadron or two... but for HTH maybe in apocalypse soften them up with an assassin temple team formation thingy of vindicares with shield breakers, then assault with any CC unit w/ power weaps


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

When Necrons are released, wraiths will own paladins, at I6, with 5 S6 PW attacks, yeah. Until then, i just throw Logan Grimnar and 3 TH/SS termie wolves at them, with Arjac Rockfist as well. Throw Thunder hammer, inflict wound, ID one of them (if i am lucky) Charge, take some attacks, take a wound on Logan and Arjac (eternal warriors) then hit back with 16 S8 attacks, re-rolling to hit, and 5 S10 re-rolling to hit the Grand Master. yeah, little is going to survive that, considering everything that fails its save is Intagibbed.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

mcmuffin said:


> When Necrons are released, wraiths will own paladins, at I6, with 5 S6 PW attacks, yeah. Until then, i just throw Logan Grimnar and 3 TH/SS termie wolves at them, with Arjac Rockfist as well. Throw Thunder hammer, inflict wound, ID one of them (if i am lucky) Charge, take some attacks, take a wound on Logan and Arjac (eternal warriors) then hit back with 16 S8 attacks, re-rolling to hit, and 5 S10 re-rolling to hit the Grand Master. yeah, little is going to survive that, considering everything that fails its save is Intagibbed.


Nice. I like that one there too.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I would be willing to bet a unit of ten Pariahs with a Destroyer Lord with Warscythe and Lightning Field might be able to do it. Comes out to a bit over 400.

Unless the FNP works against woulds allocated by Warscythes, then I'm not so sure. Basically, if the Pariah hits, it wounds. Its got that nifty anti-psyker deal, bane of so many GK builds, and on the assault it gets a lot of attacks. The only thing that you would have to worry about is enough of them surviving the first volley of attacks.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> I would be willing to bet a unit of ten Pariahs with a Destroyer Lord with Warscythe and Lightning Field might be able to do it. Comes out to a bit over 400.
> 
> Unless the FNP works against woulds allocated by Warscythes, then I'm not so sure. Basically, if the Pariah hits, it wounds. Its got that nifty anti-psyker deal, bane of so many GK builds, and on the assault it gets a lot of attacks. The only thing that you would have to worry about is enough of them surviving the first volley of attacks.


I doubt it, considering that the Paladins will be striking first with power weapons, dishing out 3 attacks each on the charge, plus the grand master on top, i reckon that maybe 2 pariahs would be left, at the most, because the Grand master would have destroyed the lord with a force weapon. i reckon that they would end up causing 1 wound. But when necrons are re-released, i cant see any unit wanting to be in combat with Pariahs.


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> A Paladin deathstar should have a Grand Master in there, and if he has a Halberd he hits at I7 too. Rad grenades mean you can really enjoy your Toughness 2, and Psychotrokes might make you I1, or a multitude of other effects. They strike first, wound you on 2s, and Force Weapons that don't require a psychic test. Hell, they'd ID you even without a banner for psychic tests. Don't Grey Knights also get some invulnerable-save-fether power like the Marines Null Zone? If they do then the Shadowfield just won't hold.
> 
> Midnight


I don't believe they have a null zone esque power - unless you're a daemon or psyker (archon is neither) and if we're only talking CC then the vindicare's shield breaker round doesn't come into play. But lets say I'm wrong about the null zone-esque power - throw the 130pt Lady Malys in there & now your archon is immune to the effects as she passes her immunity on to any squad she joins. Now we're up to 275 points to stop (With a character) around what? 600-700?

And any squad you throw at the paladins will suffer the same fate with the psychout grenades & rad grenades - hell, most everything we're talking is single wound models meaning that at T3 w/ hammerhand you're putting wounds on 2's.


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## karlhunt (Mar 24, 2009)

use GK vs GK. 5 Paladins with no upgrade are costing about 275pts, for less than that you can get an inquisitor, chimera and 11 death cult assassins. The assassins will wipe the paladins in cc on the charge with 4 ws5 s4 power weapon attacks EACH! and the same 5+ invuln your pallys have. The chimera and inquisitor are just icing. Kill what you can at range then finish them off with your 44 melee attacks. Math hammer says 22 hit, 11 wound 7 wounds unsaved kills 3.5.
2 paladins attack back, two attacks each 2 hit, 1 wounds 30% chance they shrug it off. win combat by 6 easy 4 unsaved wounds to no retreat finishes the paladin squad off in one assault. Just watch out for shooting (Stay in your transport) and do NOT assault into cover as DCAs don't have grenades.


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

Thunderhwak gunship. They wont be able to catch and they will be eating a turbo laser each round.


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## Malferion (Mar 9, 2011)

I'll try throwing a couple of furioso's at them and laugh as their force weapons fail them and they get ripped to shreds. Have fun with 13 armor walkers!
This of course assuming that not every paladin unit will have a fist or hammer if they can even have fists...
If all else fails they can eat my autolas preds and hammernators


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Malferion said:


> I'll try throwing a couple of furioso's at them and laugh as their force weapons fail them and they get ripped to shreds. Have fun with 13 armor walkers!
> This of course assuming that not every paladin unit will have a fist or hammer if they can even have fists...


Only less than clever individuals would not take at least one hammer (probably master-crafted) in a unit like Paladins.


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## MetalHandkerchief (Aug 3, 2009)

Edit: derp, wrong thread.


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## Webster 21 (Jul 1, 2010)

Well, as I've just found out in a game at my local GW, Logan and a bunch of tooled up WG in TDA don't cut it...


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Webster 21 said:


> Well, as I've just found out in a game at my local GW, Logan and a bunch of tooled up WG in TDA don't cut it...


One of the worst units to pit against Paladins. You want something with lots of attacks, and/or lots of non-IDable wounds. Ork Boyz, Hormagaunts, Khorne Berzerkers and Genestealers all do the trick (Genestealers, perhaps not, due to Paladins with Halberds striking before them and simultaneously with the Broodlord. However, Rending and Hypnotic Gaze are both really good.) High-cost, high armour save but low invunerable/low wound total units suck, as do MCs. Paladins, and GK in general, are designed to kill MCs. Designed, I say!

Midnight


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## Webster 21 (Jul 1, 2010)

MidnightSun said:


> One of the worst units to pit against Paladins. You want something with lots of attacks, and/or lots of non-IDable wounds. Ork Boyz, Hormagaunts, Khorne Berzerkers and Genestealers all do the trick (Genestealers, perhaps not, due to Paladins with Halberds striking before them and simultaneously with the Broodlord. However, Rending and Hypnotic Gaze are both really good.) High-cost, high armour save but low invunerable/low wound total units suck, as do MCs. Paladins, and GK in general, are designed to kill MCs. Designed, I say!
> 
> Midnight


I was thinking maybe 15 Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest? Assuming I got the charge of course!


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Well to be honest, anything with Stormshields and Thunder hammers will generally give Paladins a run for their money.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Orochi said:


> Well to be honest, anything with Stormshields and Thunder hammers will generally give Paladins a run for their money.


Pretty much this. All that a unit needs to beat Paladins is a way to easily cause Instant Death and a means of surviving a lot of armor ignoring attacks.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm feeling that my Deathwing may finally of found optimal opponents.

Especially as it works out at 43 points a terminator. Bargain.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Webster 21 said:


> Well, as I've just found out in a game at my local GW, Logan and a bunch of tooled up WG in TDA don't cut it...


Not trying to be dickish or anything, but you must not have used them right, because I just played a game today with logan, 4 TH/SS wolf guard termies and Arjac, ran them out of a crusader, threw my hammer and killed one of the halberds (ooh-ra!). 2 of my termies died and i took a wound on Arjac and ploughed into the paladins. Arjac took down the grand master by ID, logan and the remaining two termies dished out the pain, leaving only the apothecary. next turn i squished him with Logan's axe, striking at normal initiative and +1 strength. All in a game turn's work.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I concur with TH/SS being the best CC answer, along with large numbers of attacks (But Marines don't have any units that can kick out a lot of attacks very easily apart form a LRC, which is also quite good). TWC could work too, but to be honest I'd try to take them down with shooting.

Midnight


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Nurgle units with FNP. Maybe.


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## Webster 21 (Jul 1, 2010)

mcmuffin said:


> Not trying to be dickish or anything, but you must not have used them right, because I just played a game today with logan, 4 TH/SS wolf guard termies and Arjac, ran them out of a crusader, threw my hammer and killed one of the halberds (ooh-ra!). 2 of my termies died and i took a wound on Arjac and ploughed into the paladins. Arjac took down the grand master by ID, logan and the remaining two termies dished out the pain, leaving only the apothecary. next turn i squished him with Logan's axe, striking at normal initiative and +1 strength. All in a game turn's work.


It's all good bro, I didn't get the charge, botched the Counter, didn't have Arjac and the WG didn't all have TH and SS! To say that it could have gone better is an understatement!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Iron Angel said:


> Nurgle units with FNP. Maybe.


No, not even close. Paladins don't care about FNP in close combat what with the entire unit packing force weapons.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Webster 21 said:


> It's all good bro, I didn't get the charge, botched the Counter, didn't have Arjac and the WG didn't all have TH and SS! To say that it could have gone better is an understatement!


Yep, getting the charge is critical against them, and anything other than storm shields gets horribly mangled against those. Arjac is nice for killing the IC, and logan is great for the extra attack and preferred enemy, which means most of your attacks will land and then its plain sailing to wound. But, like all death stars, i find that they can be avoided with good tactical play, simply manoeuvering around them. because there are only five of them, they deep strike and die to shooting or they pack up in a raider and waste almost half the points of a normal 1500pt game. even in 2000, they are a massive points sink, for what, 2 attacks, 2 wounds and holocaust? give me Troop terminators any day. Plasma works nicely too, forcing them to take that 5+ save, but in CC, good invuls will hold strong against them.


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

How deathstary are you talking about though, like 5 paladins and draigo, or like a thousand point 10 man paladin squad with psybolts a banner a apothecary and draigo etc...?

Swarmlord
3x guard w/ lashwhips
3x 9 genestealers each with a broodlord

this costs a little less then that tooled out unit, and can easily wipe them out if the charge is not given to either (although you lose your swarmlord in the process but owell).


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## TraceofToxin (Jan 26, 2010)

I speak from experience... as said earlier, a tooled up Archon does wonder against Paladins. 

If we're talking ~350 point units...

Especially if you place your models correctly using 9 Bloodbrides with 3 nets. Put the Archon on the GM with 2 nets, and make sure no other model can B2B with the Archon. 

For the Archon/GM fight, it's a 50% to get hit with 1 attack, 66% to get wounded and a 16% to fail your save... a .025 chance to die. If you can gib him the first round then you shouldn't have too much trouble with the combat, S6 ID will do serious damage to a Paladin unit. If the GM has a sword you'll have a 66% to hit, 33% to wound, 33% unsaved... so .07 chance to kill him... per swing. With 5 attacks, that's a 35% to kill him each phase vs a 2% to die. 

The big decider is how badly the wyches get their asses kicked, because they could definitely get run off. If the wyches hold long enough for the Archon to drop the GM and get into combat... it'll be smooth sailing.

If you can get 2 Archons in the fight, one on the GM and one on the knights... well that'd go much better.


TH/SS termies would probably do well.

A proper Tyranid warriorstar- equal points in warriors with 2xBS, ST and Toxin Sacs and a prime with LW/BS/ST and TS would probably do very well. That's a really close matchup and whoever rolls better will probably win.

TWC deathstar could do some serious damage too.


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

350pts? That doesn't sound very death starry to me, XD
350pts worth of genestealers would nomnom through 5 paladins.


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## kain1989 (Dec 1, 2009)

there's a guy who's been running a paladin deathstar, and i've been trying to play him, with my kanwall, killa kans laugh at paladins, unless they have psychotroke grenades, in which case, they do affect Kans. bad memories...

but what do you do when someone brings a deathstar, ignore it until you can charge/shoot it with everything you got, make anything roll enough dice, and it dies. that's the ork principal i play by.


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