# Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Betrayer - Cover Art!



## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

So, what do you think? 

I personally think it looks epic. Kharn vs Ultramarines, what more do you want?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

That's not Khârn - It's Angron & Lorgar unless I am mistaken.

Nice artwork though, a bit too eccentric in places, but good overall.


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

I now want this book, that pic is just fucking cool


----------



## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> That's not Khârn - It's Angron & Lorgar unless I am mistaken.


You're not mistaken, my dear sir.


----------



## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

WOW. Great cover. Love ADB's stuff!


----------



## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

ADB did not draw that cover


----------



## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

piemelke said:


> ADB did not draw that cover


My version was way better.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I thought it would be Kor Phaeron and Angron, since Lorgar chose not to go to fight the Ultramarines or Guilliman.


----------



## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Yeah, I'm going to be perfectly honest--that's freaking awesome.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I thought it would be Kor Phaeron and Angron, since Lorgar chose not to go to fight the Ultramarines or Guilliman.


Since when was Angron at Calth? :laugh:

Angron and Lorgar were being mischievous elsewhere in Ultramar while Kor Phaeron assaulted Calth.



Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> My version was way better.


http://aarondembskibowden.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/untitled.jpg

True dat.


----------



## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I thought it would be Kor Phaeron and Angron, since Lorgar chose not to go to fight the Ultramarines or Guilliman.


Kor Phaeron's at Calth.

Lorgar chose not to go to Calth. He took Argel Tal, half the Word Bearers, and Angron and all the World Eaters elsewhere into Ultramar.


----------



## kwak76 (Nov 29, 2010)

So the book is about Lorgar and Angron taking out the rest of the Ultra- marines?


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I didn't mean Calth I mean the Ultramar system in general, I thought Lorgar never went near the place and stayed with Horus. I knew Angron went since I remember him being ordered to assist the Word Bearers, but I thought Lorgar stayed away.


----------



## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> My version was way better.


You know that the testosteron level of young fathers drops dramatically (nature's way to prevent them from jumping the nearest nurse during labor). This results in young fathers being emotional cry-babies, so I am guessing your version of this drawing was more like a group cuddle, 

Angron: why can't we just get along and do nice stuff
Lorgar and UM's: Yeah, let's hug

mmmmhhh, I think I like this version better.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I didn't mean Calth I mean the Ultramar system in general, I thought Lorgar never went near the place and stayed with Horus. I knew Angron went since I remember him being ordered to assist the Word Bearers, but I thought Lorgar stayed away.


Nah, at the end of _Aurelian_ Lorgar revealed that he had some kind of special mission to attend to along with Argel Tal, Horus gave him Angron and the World Eaters to support him - it'll be interesting to learn the details.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Probably be a blackstone fortress or something


----------



## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

piemelke said:


> ADB did not draw that cover


Okay my posts phrasing was poor. I meant, "WOW that looks awesome. ABD's writing is great and I can't wait to read this."


----------



## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Kor Phaeron's at Calth.
> 
> Lorgar chose not to go to Calth. He took Argel Tal, half the Word Bearers, and Angron and all the World Eaters elsewhere into Ultramar.


I dont know how much you can say at this time but I have a question.

When does this take place? Concurrent with the attack on Calth or after?


----------



## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

Designation P-90 said:


> Okay my posts phrasing was poor. I meant, "WOW that looks awesome. ABD's writing is great and I can't wait to read this."


yeah yeah that was clear, I was just teasing you
ADB fanboys are funny


----------



## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

piemelke said:


> ADB fanboys are funny


The 2-3 passive-aggressive whiners who call anyone who likes something else a "fanboy" are way, way funnier.


----------



## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

is that your lack of testosterone kicking in again (it will pass with time) ?
anyway, I seriously do not want to offend or insult anyone, so in case I did that I apologize


----------



## Tywin Lannister (Nov 17, 2011)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Kor Phaeron's at Calth.
> 
> Lorgar chose not to go to Calth. He took Argel Tal, half the Word Bearers, and Angron and all the World Eaters elsewhere into Ultramar.


That doesn't sound like an enormous amount of fun for the Ultramarines!


----------



## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

piemelke said:


> is that your lack of testosterone kicking in again (it will pass with time) ?


Actually, joking aside, I totally Googled that thing about testosterone in new fathers, and how it dips for the first few months. Interesting stuff, I'm glad you mentioned it. They're not sure if it's a correlation or a causation; whether it's that caregiving lowers testosterone, or testosterone lowers automatically and its the temporary lowering that increases the drive for caregiving. Even cooler, they're not sure if it's a trend due to cultural monogamy or not, which'd therefore affect different people with different perspectives in different ways. 

The only way it manifests, apparently, for a lot of guys is levels of tiredness at the end of the day, which I guess makes sense.

A lot of interesting variables. Cool stuff, always good to think about.

All hail the internet.



Tywin Lannister said:


> That doesn't sound like an enormous amount of fun for the Ultramarines!


They got to win at Calth. Payback's a bitch.



Designation P-90 said:


> I dont know how much you can say at this time but I have a question.
> 
> When does this take place? Concurrent with the attack on Calth or after?


During, and after.


----------



## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

Looks awesome, presumably takes place after Butcher's Nails where we had a glimpse at Angron and Lorgars' on/off relationship?

Angron literally was not hugged enough as a child or adult.

I wonder what they're up to, save bashing the boys in blue.


----------



## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

That cover looks amazing. Can't wait for it to come out. Still gotta read the other Horus Heresy books before it does though. Still got four of them to read.

Anyway, i'm looking forward to its release. The previous books I have read that were written by ADB have been amazing. I'm sure this one will be no different.


----------



## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

I believe the time of betrayal is directly proportional to the number of hugs each Primarch received during his childhood. I'm fairly certain Alan Merrett has said that under duress somewhere... either that or it's a publicly known fact; wholly indisputable and not worth arguing with me about. I swear... :wink: There's no way I'm making that up.

CP


----------



## jonileth (Feb 1, 2012)

Commissar Ploss said:


> I believe the time of betrayal is directly proportional to the number of hugs each Primarch received during his childhood.


So does that mean that violence is directly proportional to the lack of affection? But what if you don't like being touched? Is there some corollary regarding those that have some aversion to social contact whereby the intention of giving affection is directly proportional to the lack of violence even if no actual contact was made?


----------



## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks for the quick reply. Also, I wouldn't say the UM's "won" at Calth, survived is more like it.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Designation P-90 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. Also, I wouldn't say the UM's "won" at Calth, survived is more like it.


Well there is certainly more of a case to suggest they "won" in comparison to the Word Bearers.


----------



## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Well there is certainly more of a case to suggest they "won" in comparison to the Word Bearers.


I suppose.


----------



## Hachiko (Jan 26, 2011)

Did Sullivan do that cover?


----------



## Fire Tempered (Dec 16, 2010)

Neil Roberts do all HH covers. Both are great artists, though I don't like look of the first few HH covers that much.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Angron just want a hug. Look at the picture carefully. Angron is looking at Lorgar in horror as he cuts down the Ultramarines who are just trying to get within hugging distance of Angron.


----------



## Hachiko (Jan 26, 2011)

Fire Tempered said:


> Neil Roberts do all HH covers. Both are great artists, though I don't like look of the first few HH covers that much.


Thanks. Of the early covers, False Gods has a decent cover. Nemesis is my least favorite overall, and I really like the Legion and Mechanicum covers.


----------



## Wydnej (Feb 19, 2010)

There have been some fantastic HH covers, and more to come as has been seen...

However the standout crap cover by a country mile has to be The Outcast Dead... its just... horrible... 

Bleurgh...! Astartes that look like all odds and ends of pirates and generally poor given the potential in the plot.

Wyddy


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Wydnej said:


> There have been some fantastic HH covers, and more to come as has been seen...
> 
> However the standout crap cover by a country mile has to be The Outcast Dead... its just... horrible...
> 
> ...


That's because what they where wearing was stolen...


----------



## Tywin Lannister (Nov 17, 2011)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> They got to win at Calth. Payback's a bitch.


Well, by the appalingly low standards of the loyalists in the Heresey it probably was a victory, but only in the same way Isstvan V was because they only suffered 99% casualties...

Incidentally, I am also a new(ish) father and I recognise what you are talking about!


----------



## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Tywin Lannister said:


> Well, by the appalingly low standards of the loyalists in the Heresey it probably was a victory, but only in the same way Isstvan V was because they only suffered 99% casualties...
> 
> Incidentally, I am also a new(ish) father and I recognise what you are talking about!


I'm not really-really talking smack about the Ultramarines. I mostly meant it in the meta-sense, of them getting to look amazing in a book, and getting serious airtime and attention. (I'm pretty confident that Ultramarine fans won't feel let down by how they're shown in _Betrayer_.)

The loyalists are on the cusp of kicking ass and taking names, though. Their time will come.


----------



## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

This cover art makes me happy in the pants.

Definitely looking forward to this one, I've loved ADB's books so far, and by sheer badassery of the storyline I'm sure it won't disappoint.

On an unrelated note, if anyone needs me I'll be fapping to the cover art...


----------



## Tywin Lannister (Nov 17, 2011)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> I'm not really-really talking smack about the Ultramarines. I mostly meant it in the meta-sense, of them getting to look amazing in a book, and getting serious airtime and attention. (I'm pretty confident that Ultramarine fans won't feel let down by how they're shown in _Betrayer_.)
> 
> The loyalists are on the cusp of kicking ass and taking names, though. Their time will come.


I guess it must be a pretty fine line you guys have to tread. On the one hand Horus and his cohorts have to arrive at Terra largely unimpeded in massive and overwhelming force and generally kick arse. But on the other there have to be enough loyalists left to keep Horus looking over his shoulder and then for 40K to happen at all.

Plenty to look forward to in any event!


----------



## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

Tywin Lannister said:


> I guess it must be a pretty fine line you guys have to tread. On the one hand Horus and his cohorts have to arrive at Terra largely unimpeded in massive and overwhelming force and generally kick arse. But on the other there have to be enough loyalists left to keep Horus looking over his shoulder and then for 40K to happen at all.
> 
> Plenty to look forward to in any event!


There also needs to be enough named champions of chaos left for Sigismund to look godly when he slays them all.


----------



## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

To me it looks like Angron is genuinely surprised at the amount of blood that came out of that Ultramarine. I know I am!

*Chop *Chop *Cleave *Chop "Oh, would you look at that!" *Chop *Cleave *Chop *Chop


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

increaso said:


> There also needs to be enough named champions of chaos left for Sigismund to look godly when he slays them all.


If that doesn't happen, I'll be most annoyed :/


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Indeed, very much lacking on that front. All I can think of are Tybalt Marr, Serghar Targost, Kalus Ekkadon, Grael Noctua, all from the Sons of Horus, none of whom are really big characters, certainly not big enough to make it seem epic against Sigismund. 

Some big contenders could be Julis Kaesoron and Marius Vairosean, though the Emperors Children aren't really meant to be within the Palace but at the civilian habs doing.........stuff.....

They could perhaps retcon the fluff a little and have him 'kill' Kharn, though we know he comes back it could still be a pretty epic fight. 

Sevatar is also up there, but personally I hope Corswain kills him.


----------



## Tywin Lannister (Nov 17, 2011)

Argel Tal? At least one person on this thread can probably answer that...

Oh, and how about Horus Aximand?


----------



## Chaosveteran (Aug 29, 2010)

meh...Sigismund is overrated. Let him be pwnd by a stray bolter shot!


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Sigismund doesn't die, he slays a lot of champions and then goes on to form the Black Templars.


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I think having Sigismund fight Horus Aximand or Kalkus Fibre (The Widowmaker) is a very real possibility. Maybe he could fight other Chaos champions such as some Iron Warrior lord or maybe even Ingo Pech or Matthias Herzog of the Alpha Legion.

In short there are still plenty of bad guys to get kicked by Sigismund.

@Tywin Lannister: Argel Tal gets killed by Sanguinius. As shown in _Aurelian_ (Well not shown but certainly stated almost as fact. Fateweaver could have been lying but how many other angels can Argel Tal die from if not Corax or Sanguinius??)


----------



## Chaosveteran (Aug 29, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Sigismund doesn't die, he slays a lot of champions and then goes on to form the Black Templars.


All the more reason for him to get shot!

But seriously...why aren't there any portrayals of chaos champions killing off a bunch of loyalist champions and then surviving to tell the tale...


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Yeah never see that happen..


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Tywin Lannister said:


> Argel Tal? At least one person on this thread can probably answer that...
> 
> Oh, and how about Horus Aximand?


Argel Tal is going to be killed by Sanguinius.



Stephen_Newman said:


> I think having Sigismund fight Horus Aximand or Kalkus Fibre (The Widowmaker) is a very real possibility. Maybe he could fight other Chaos champions such as some Iron Warrior lord or maybe even Ingo Pech or Matthias Herzog of the Alpha Legion


Falkus Kibre* survives the Heresy, so not him. Aximand is undoubtedly getting set up for something bigger than Sigismund. Loken is an obvious contender, thought if he is indeed to become one of the first Grey Knights with Garro, then he won't take place in the Siege of Terra, he might of course not go on to become a Knight, instead going off to hunt Aximand. Others believe he'll lower the shields on the _Vengeful Spirit_. Pech and Herzog aren't really big enough characters and finding themselves in a duel with Sigismund just doesn't seem very Alpha Legion like behaviour. And sure an Iron Warrior, but they haven't introduced one yet. As far as current characters go, it's a very short list.



Chaosveteran said:


> All the more reason for him to get shot!
> 
> But seriously...why aren't there any portrayals of chaos champions killing off a bunch of loyalist champions and then surviving to tell the tale...


Theres been quite a few big loyalists deaths. 

Torgaddon, Othere Wyrdmake, Gabriel Santar, Temeter, Demeter, Tarvitz(?), Aquillon, Cestus, Skraal, Mhotep and Ferrus Manus of course.
 Well up on the traitors, the majority of which introduced so far are known to survive the Heresy. Where as apart from Sigismund really, none of the loyalists main characters are safe.


----------



## Chaosveteran (Aug 29, 2010)

yea I mean champion vs. champion deaths...not to massed firepower or another Primarch. Sigismund is being made out to look like Rambo + Superman combined...


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Not really, he challenged his enemies to one on one combat and owned a lot of them, he didn't take down primarchs or titans. He's meant to be one of the best duellists out of every legion.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Tarik Torgaddon vs Aximand
Julius Kaesoron vs Gabriel Santar
Lucius vs Solomon Demeter
Argel Tal vs Aquillon
Garviel Loken vs Abbadon
Ahzek Ahriman vs Othere Wyrdmake
Sevatar vs Alajos

All of the above are champion vs champion duels in which the Traitors won and walked away.

For the loyalists......I've got nothing.

Cestus and Skraal combined managed to kill Zadkiel, but both died in the process. The Custodes made a good account for themselves in The First Heretic, both Vendatha earlier and then the combined efforts of the others later. But all of them were killed immediately after as well.


----------



## Tywin Lannister (Nov 17, 2011)

Angel of Blood said:


> Argel Tal is going to be killed by Sanguinius.
> 
> ...Aximand is undoubtedly getting set up for something bigger than Sigismund... Others believe he'll lower the shields on the _Vengeful Spirit_. Pech and Herzog aren't really big enough characters and finding themselves in a duel with Sigismund just doesn't seem very Alpha Legion like behaviour. And sure an Iron Warrior, but they haven't introduced one yet. As far as current characters go, it's a very short list.


I'll file the Sanguinius thing under 'things I should have known but didn't'! It's a long list...

After GiF I thought Aximand might recant at some point, my idea being that he would turn on Abbadon and that while he'd obviously get slaughtered he'd keep him from Horus' side during his confrontation with the Emperor. But after reading his short (with the whole Face/ Off business...) it looks more as though he's not for turning...


----------



## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

For me, Sigismund is Diomedes in the Iliad.

There are plenty of characters introduced throughout the series so far (and more to come) that he can oppose.

If it were a videogame, I see Tormageddon and Little Horus are natural 'mini-bosses' for Loken.

By the end of Galaxy in Flames I saw Little Horus as a potential turncoat, but since then he seems to have gone off the rails.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Indeed, very much lacking on that front. All I can think of are Tybalt Marr, Serghar Targost, Kalus Ekkadon, Grael Noctua, all from the Sons of Horus, none of whom are really big characters, certainly not big enough to make it seem epic against Sigismund.
> 
> Some big contenders could be Julis Kaesoron and Marius Vairosean, though the Emperors Children aren't really meant to be within the Palace but at the civilian habs doing.........stuff.....
> 
> ...


Still enough time to introduce major traitor characters.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Yeah, I think some may turn up in Crimson Fist, but even so that would only be Iron Warriors, hopefully more of the books before the siege occurs will include some "throwaway" champions, the similar way so many loyal throwaway champions have already been developed and killed off.


----------



## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Still enough time to introduce major traitor characters.


Oh indeed, but hopefully they introduce them sooner rather than later. Would be more dramatic if Sigismund kills some Traitor champions who have featured in more than one novel and are well established by then. I can still see Kharn being a potential candidate. Does it ever say in the fluff who kills him at Terra? From what I can remember it's just that his body was found as they retreated from the Palace.


----------



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

He was first through the breach I think, but that's as much as I know.


----------



## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

not a fan of this piece. I do find it funny seeing smurfs get chewed up, but it looks like a Dark Apostle with that power mace, but then again, the chain axe is suggestive of something else.


----------



## Chaosveteran (Aug 29, 2010)

lol...why would an ultrasmurf be going up against 2 primarchs on top of a hill (!!) with a combat knife !!!???? Don't they have something like that written in Guilliman's tome of 'good behaviour' as smth NOT TO DO??


----------



## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

What I remember is that the bad guys got killed in DL, but ok, not major characters. Then we have Iron Within, the good guys won there, then we have the Ultramarine guy from KNF and Rules of engagement, he will survive the heresy and burn Cothlis. As someone wrote, there is much time to create major characters to be killed off.


----------

