# csm vs necrons *new player in need of help



## CuthbertAllgood1 (Dec 27, 2009)

First off I am new to the whole Warhammer 40k Universe and have chosen to field a CSM army. My first battle will be coming up here in a few weeks and im trying to get an army list together. My opponent is also new and will be fielding Necrons.

What he will be fielding...

Necron Lord with Ressurection orb and Warscythe

3 destroyers

40 necron warriors

10 scarab swarms

What I will be fielding...

Chaos lord with powerfist and bolt pistol

4 chosen, two have bolt pistol and CC weapon, one has plasma gun and the other im thinking of making a sorcerer.

noise marine squad with 1 blastmaster and 1 sonic weapon, Aspiring Champion with plasma pistol and power sword, and 3 bolters

Havoc Squad with Aspiring champion with powerfist and bolt pistol, 1 lascannon, 1 missile launcher, 1 autocannon, 1 heavy bolter and 3 bolters. 

1 rhino with combiflamer and dirge caster and dozer blade. 



Any help would be appreciated in tactics and in making the army list better against my dreaded opponent (I hate necrons), its mostly going to be friendly games at first just to get the hang of the game. I have read both mine and his Codex and we each have copies of the others.Chaos Space Marines (p26, p96 C:CSM)
Codex: Chaos Space Marines 

Camo Cloaks (p100 C:SM)
Company Command Squad (p30, p90 C:IG)


----------



## Bmwrocks2 (Sep 20, 2009)

Well swap the Chaos Lord for a Demon Prince with wings and look at getting some Beserkers in a rhino and maybe some oblits.
The best way to deal with nechrons is to go for the phase out. So just use your oblits to plasma cannon his squads and send your beserkers and Prince to finish whats left.
I wouldn't worry about the destroyers much.

Also what's the points cost of the match?


----------



## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Hey and Welcome to Chaos!! very good choice on your part to be one of us. hehe. his undead warriors shall fear those that cause much destruction and well, CHAOS in general! and speaking about strategy..... a couple good units that would be great modifiers to any chaos army and will help you against the necrons would be 

1.) A good, powerful HQ. There are 7 chaos special characters (someone correct me if i'm wrong) and there all good with dealing in certain situations. The one i personally like is Kharn, who is a very good HQ choice, with his special rule on hitting on a 2+ with a power sword with lots of attacks plus furious charge. Daemon princes are also very powerful HQ's and are relatively cheap, but get picked on alot in games because of there intimidating height and stats. Daemon princes draw lots of fire. Sorcerers are also a very good choice, especially a lash sorcerer who uses the Lash of Submission powers which is usefull when it comes to controlling enemy troop movements. 

2.) mechanise your lists. by mechanise i mean give them a transport always. it not only lets the troops get around faster, but also protects them.

Since your going against Necrons, i would suggest units and weapons that can pierce and damage them. Usually AP 3 and below weapons are very effective against them. Get alot of Plasma guns, Meltas and power weapons or anything that can get rid of there armor which is what makes them so tough. equipting your chosen with plasmas would help, they can get about 5 plasmas with a squad of 5. dont give them CC weapons and chosen champ is probably not worth it if there going to be shooting alot. (saves points)
Thousand Sons would help you alot against the necrons also. they have bolters with Ap 3 which will definately help against 3+ saves. dont bother with possesed or spawn or daemons (unless your getting a Greater daemon which is really cheap for its stats.) you might also want to give your chaos lord no icons, give him wings for a faster lord, and also give him A daemon weapon. He will do wonders with it. dont be intimidated by the 1 fail, because you do have a 5+ invul save to help. 

Also get rid of the power fist on your havoc squad. there a long range heavy support. they wont be needing it. also get rid of heavy bolter and autocannon. give them plasma cannons or lascannons to deal with the necron destroyers and even meltas if your necron opponent suddenly decides to field a Monolith (which he probably should have because those things are a must have for any necron player). 

combi flamer and dirge caster you should replace with daemonic possession for survivability for your rhino. 

i hope this have helped and has given you a insight to how tactically flexible chaos space marines are and how powerful they are! its always good to be chaos.  if you have any questions feel free to ask. basically just field alot of low ap weapons and blow him away!


----------



## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

a little more information would also help, like Point limit of game, is it going to be objective based or annihalation? also read around on the different chaos threads. you will find some very good tactics and probably really cheesey ones to use against future opponents and gain valuable knowledge! other then that have fun and show him what the Chaos gods are about.


----------



## khorneflake (Jul 11, 2008)

for the chosen, i would reccomend 4 power weapons and outflank or infiltrate. as for the havocs, DO NOT multipurpose them. in fact, i would reccomend specializing them. my advice would be to take 3 obliterators instead. if you really are set on them, though, i would highly reccomend autocannons or (?) plasma cannons or heavy bolters. as for the lord, i would lose the power fist, as it wastes the I5. and grab a slaneesh lord (I6) with a blissgiver and . take the lord and smash him in with the breserkers in a rhino. the I6 daemon weapon will cause instant death and soften them up. also, the breserkers are I5 on the charge, which means that you may be destroying the whole squad without them touching you. i would drop the noise marines. also lose the powerfist in the Havoc squad, as if you get in combat, its too late for you. with those points, i would put some breserkers in the rhino with the lord. the sorcerer should have a mark of tzeench or slaneesh. if you chose slaneesh, use lash to move the necrons towards your Lord and the breserkers.


----------



## Dr. Boggle (Nov 16, 2009)

ok forgive me if im wrong but im pretty sure that you cant have a squad of 4 chosen and if you typed it right you are really badly outnumbered and will be hard pressed to put up a fight


----------



## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Dr. Boggle said:


> ok forgive me if im wrong but im pretty sure that you cant have a squad of 4 chosen and if you typed it right you are really badly outnumbered and will be hard pressed to put up a fight


I think he meant take a full squad of chosen with 4 power weapons.

Anyhow, my advice is probably not blissgiver for your lord, but rather the nurgle weapon (plaguebringer I think) since there is not much to deal instant death to in his army except the scarabs and lord, and any decent assault from you will end up as a sweeping advance most likely. Plaguebringer would also let you hurt nightbringer should he ever come after your lord and make your lord more effective against destroyers.

I advise against a single daemon prince. 2 would be OK, but one is just destroyer fodder. I also advise against using lash of submission in casual games, as it can be kinda cheesy and necrons are already on the bottom of the 40k totem pole.

As for your army, you probably want some more troop choices. You could go single deity or multiple or however you like. As far as effectiveness goes, a whole bunch of berzerkers with a powerfist mounted in a vehicle like the rest of your army is very solid.


----------



## CuthbertAllgood1 (Dec 27, 2009)

Thanks for the Help, will deffinetely get some berzerkers. going to replace the chaos lords weapon with a daemon weapon.

For the chosen i do only have 4 models, from what i could read (in between the lines) this appears to be a bad idea, so i am going to boost up the numbers and give them plasma guns and no champ. I was thinking of upgrading one to a sorcerer, but maybe thats not the best way to go.

I really liked the noise marines, their fearlessness and range i have heard great things about the sonic blaster, anything nurgle is a bit iffy for me it seems kind of expensive. as for the havocs im thinking ill go with 2 lascannons and 2 autocannons. 

I was trying to decide on terminators or obliterators as well as some predators or vindicators or defilers. As well as a land raider, or daemon princes.


----------



## Blammer (Nov 17, 2009)

CuthbertAllgood1 said:


> Thanks for the Help, will deffinetely get some berzerkers. going to replace the chaos lords weapon with a daemon weapon.
> 
> For the chosen i do only have 4 models, from what i could read (in between the lines) this appears to be a bad idea, so i am going to boost up the numbers and give them plasma guns and no champ. I was thinking of upgrading one to a sorcerer, but maybe thats not the best way to go.
> 
> ...


Both terminators and land raiders are very good but only when the termies are riding in the land raider.

Oblitors, Defilers and deamon princes are good.

Predators are decent.

Just remember that armour ignoring stuff = the bane of heavy infantry ( such as necrons and marines) so stuff with good armour piercing is good against necrons.

have fun gaming :good:.


----------



## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

specifically facing necrons you'll find defilers effective if you have access to them. Large blast S8 AP3 with 72" range can wreck their squads of warriors, and since they can only glance it (unless shooting the rear w/ destroyers) they will be hard pressed to wreck it (they have 5 weapons... and ignore 1's & 2's meaning they need to roll a 6 to glance & then a 5 or 6 to have any effect at all on the VDT)

You CANT have a squad of 4 chosen, they are a minimum 5-man unit size but I assume you're ignoring the normal FOC since you've listed (1) HQ, Elite, Troop & Heavy slot (normally you need 2 troops)...

Against Necrons, normal CSM should be able to wreck them up in combat - if they charge you you have the same number of attacks, but strike first & on the charge you have 3x the number of attacks per model...

I'm a fan of noise marines - I run an EC warband... but I find that ALWAYS the best weapon they have is the doom siren, the S5 AP3 template is nasty... folks hate it... but against necron, the I5 is a complete waste... you'd be better fielding normal CSM squads with MELTA - melta is important because of what I mentioned above, the best way to beat necron is to hit them in melee combat & catch them with sweeping advance. You can't do that if you're rapid firing your guns at them... Oh yeah, and melta is cheaper, stronger, and can't accidentally kill your own guy...

Of course, NORMALLY necrons can't get WBB from instant death / no armor save attacks BUT the res orb allows them to ALWAYS attempt the WBB so the best way to turf the necrons hard & fast is to get into CC, outperform them & catch then with a sweeping advance (no way to come back from this one...)


----------



## Dark Strategies (Sep 17, 2009)

This may be stating the obvious, but without the support of a Monolith or Veil of Darkness on the Lord, the Necrons in this battle will be extremely slow. Hammer the hell out of them from afar with the Havocs and such and bring in the close combat units on the flanks or right down the middle. Looking at both lists, I would give you very good odds of winning. Don't forget to remember the objectives, with forty Necron Warriors ambling about, they should be able to cover a good amount of objectives.

Good luck Sir.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

It is hard to say without knowing the point limit you are using, but generally Necrons wipe the floor with CSM.

You need a balanced list to stand a chance vs Necrons, and forget about deep striking units or rushing zerkers etc.

You need some long-range fire support to keep pressure on the Necrons from the start, minimum S8+ so that you force units to stay near the Lords. If there are no Lords then this tactic will also help to remove infantry units properly.
You need at least 3 units of Troops, these should be bulky and tough. In objective games Necrons will use fast moving units, they have a lot of jetbike units, to contest on the last turn, so you need to be able to hold several objectives at once.
You should use things like Chaos Terminators to try to assault the Necrons, but deep striking is too random in both turn-arrival and scatter to be very useful. Walking units up the table towards the Necrons is good because you can shoot as you advance. You need constant pressure. It also means Necrons have to choose their targets carefully, which will filter out good and bad players.
Psi powers also work well vs Necrons, who generally don't have much of a defence vs them.

The biggest dangers to CSM from Necrons are the Destroyer mob, Monoliths or C'tan. Target them first, in that order. Forget about Warriors early on, it will be almost impossible to Phase Out Necrons while the core of the damage out-put is unharmed. They will make you suffer, and Monoliths especially have a way of keeping Warriors alive longer than CSM can handle. 

Hope that helps a little, but you should give more details.


----------



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

From a new Necron player (Although I'm not new to 40k)

Remember that Necrons are arguably _the best_ anti-tank army out there ATM. Automatic glancing hits on a roll fo 6 for armor penetration, no matter the AV of the vehicle. Necron standard troops can take out Land Raiders, something that not many armies can. And that's without upgrades.

On the bright side, he won't have any heavy weapons, just his pretty basic Gauss Flayers. *His guns are better than yours.* Never forget that, engage from a distance (necrons rely on short-ranged firepower to win) and you should be home and dry.

For the Eternal Glory of Chaos Undivided!

Midnight


----------



## qotsa4life (Dec 31, 2009)

I reckon first turn concentrate all template weapons on the scarabs, they're fast and surprisingly effective, being a swarm they suffer 2w for every unsaved wound from a template or blast weapon. Once you kill all them go for the warriors, try to work a squad at a time and you'll achieve phase out in no time.


----------



## CuthbertAllgood1 (Dec 27, 2009)

Ok, Sorry its taken so long to get back to you guys, this was mostly our "learning the rules of combat" game and getting used to dice rolling. 
At first we were slow, then we started getting the hang of it. 

Anyways we were playing an annihilate game with a hill in the middle.
What i noticed the most was how inneffective my weapons were most of my
hits and wounds would be negated by WBB.

The havocs did manage to take out an entire squad by the end of the game. The noise marines managed to take high ground first and started hammering away at him, I did lose most of them however, the doom siren taking a few necrons out at once suprised me. my lord and the chosen flanked one squad that was being attacked by the noise marines slammed into it and destroyed it in about 3 turns. 

however his shots were almost as inneffective as mine were since I only lost a few units, without the WBB he would have been out of the game early on, every turn I was putting down alot of necrons but they kept coming back. 

after so many turns we declared a tie. I learned that the heavy bolter seems useless, same with the missile launcher. maybe i was just getting bad rolls but i actually got more kills with the plasma pistol toting Aspiring champion, than the missile launcher and heavy bolter combined.


----------



## JackalMJ (Nov 12, 2009)

I've got to be honest, the Necrons most definatly are NOT the best anti tank in game. Not now. Lets see, for Anti Tank they have Heavy Destroyers which is a 36' lascannon basicly (although quiet mobile). Other thank that they can try to guass fire your tank down, rolling for 6's is hard, and under the new rules glancing hits cant even destroy a vechile till its immobilised. You'll have to pump a lot of guass fire into a vechile to bring it down now days.


----------



## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Gauss is much worse in 5th ed., no doubt, but in most cases it is still helpful in stunning things. This means your real anti-armour has time to get into position and deal the killing blow. This is usually a C'tan, Lord with Warscythe, or Wraith. 
Banks of Gauss Cannons are usually the best way for Necrons to counter SM/CSM from range, 3+ to hit and 2+ to wound, and they are hard to score hits against in return. They can do nasty things to rear and side armour as well in most cases. The good thing is that a maxed out Destroyer army still only fires 45shots, so don't panic.


----------



## CuthbertAllgood1 (Dec 27, 2009)

*Point Limit*

Ok we have decided to field armies of about 1200 points

in addition what i have i also have a squad of 5 terminators and another squad of CSM's, he has flayed ones and wraiths now.


----------



## BiOHaTe (Nov 19, 2009)

CuthbertAllgood1 said:


> First off I am new to the whole Warhammer 40k Universe and have chosen to field a CSM army. My first battle will be coming up here in a few weeks and im trying to get an army list together. My opponent is also new and will be fielding Necrons.
> 
> What he will be fielding...
> 
> ...


----------



## CuthbertAllgood1 (Dec 27, 2009)

Waait a minute, is my noise marine asp champ allowed to have a plasma pistol? it doesnt state this in the codex, but all other cult marine champs can have it? is it a typo? what do you guys think?


----------

