# Am i right to be worried?



## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

Hi All, i was wonder your thoughts on this.

I'm i right to be worried? I'm a huge fan of Imperial Guard. I love the guard. In my opinion they are the greatest army in 40k. However one of the appeals for me is that they are the eternal underdogs! 

I am a veteran of 40k. I've played 40k for longer than a great deal of the members of the forum have been walking and talking. I have been a regular at the UKGT for more years than i care to remember and in that time 90% of the time i take guard in some form or another. 

I'm worried that with the new codex and all the cool new stuff that guard might get too much of a boost. I loved that fact that i'd see people sneer at me when i turn up with the guard and they have marines or fancy elder etc. They thought it was quaint until i smashed them. I like the fact that it's a hard army to win with. I like the fact that it's not a power gamers army.............. and now it might become one.

I took an especially stupid (even by guard standards) army to GT this year and as a result i didn't make it though. Now i look at the finals results and i see the same old shit! The same players with this years power army at the top of the list. Okay, so a better army might mean that i have a better chance, however i'm worried that the power gamer net listing crowd will turn to my beloved guard. 

Already people are talking about the Valkyries army or Marbo! IMO if the whole run and shoot thing is true my Tallarns will be fun to play with! Ahh perhaps i'm rambling for the sake of it!

Still worried though!!


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

From what I've seen of the new dex guard are gonna be seriously nasty- while I doubt they'll hold a candle to orc mob lists I certainly expect them to be serious candidates for powergamers- If your aim is to get laughed at you might have to pick a new army... there are many poor options out there to be taken yet.


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## Red Corsairs (Jun 8, 2008)

I don't care much for Guard, but I do respect how popular they are and how good they actually are and from what I've heard myself Guard are going to be pimped up even more next Codex. But after how pissed off I was with the new Chaos Codex, I feel you have every right to be worried  Though I'm sure they'll be okay, GW worship the Emperor, anything else... that's a different matter.


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

I can feel your pain and your worry. Before the new codex came out I loved my ork armies. THey were hard to win with but people were not really expecting what I had. I loved to hear them say "You play orks oh they suck!" and then wonder how they get demolished by army. Now with the new codex everyone seems to have an ork army and the power players have just ripped it to pieces. 
So I understand your concern and from the sounds of what I have heard the same thing that happened to my orks are going to happen to your IG so you should be a little worried.


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

I know exactly what you mean, I suppose I could say I feel the same way.

But I don't really have to fear quite as much, Pluto will be classed as a real planet again before we get a new codex 

Saying that I did feel a bit weird when a thread about the new DH codex came up... But I don't want to seem selfish.


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## scruff (Mar 3, 2008)

At this rate, even Dark Eldar will be deadly
Too bad that CSM, DA, and Eldar missed the decent book period..


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

scruff said:


> At this rate, even Dark Eldar will be deadly
> Too bad that CSM, DA, and Eldar missed the decent book period..


Actually the Eldar have (IMHO) the most thought-out and best written codex of all. Many people share this opinion, but it is just an opinion.

The IG will always be the underdogs, for one simple reason: they are not Space Marines or Orks. They might get some cool stuff in the new dex, but they will never be a powergaming army, ever. Orks are the current powergaming standard with their awesome stats for the price of a Imperial Guardsman, and even the Daemons would be hard-pressed to out-cheese that.

Have no fear! Your underdog status is eternally preserved, my friend!:victory:


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## xiawujing (Mar 2, 2009)

New Guard look like they can still be the underdogs, but its gonna be easier to powergame with them. I don't think that the power gamers will nessecarily switch to IG however.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

I wouldn't worry too much, yet!

Look at all the crap people talked about overpowered marines before the codex was really looked at. They turned out to be the new underdog!!


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

the cabbage said:


> I wouldn't worry too much, yet!
> 
> Look at all the crap people talked about overpowered marines before the codex was really looked at. They turned out to be the new underdog!!


Ain't that the truth! We have tons of options, but none of them are IWIN buttons lol.

Orks, on the other hand...:mrgreen:


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## Duke Vorian (Jun 21, 2008)

MarzM, I am totally with you on this matter. One of the reasons Guard appealed to me was because they were the underdog, that I actually had to put some thought into an army list and tactic to win games. I agree with you on every level you noted; especially how the current Imperial Guard Codex *IS* the most balanced list that GW has put out, three editions running virtually. 

If the current rumours are true Guard are going to be some heavy hitters on the table. I'm sure a lot of those 'Power Gamers' are going to be tempted by some pieces of the new Codex, and I _hate_ 'Power Gamers'. We will also see a very large flock of band wagon jumpers at "Look! A new codex!"; but I'm sure the later are going to be really disapointed when they find out how much, money and time wise, the Imperial Guard take. 

Also, one of the newest rumored rules which may intice new comers and 'Power Gamers' may be crushed by the realization of what a squad of Orks can do to it. Squadrons of vehicles are exciting and very fluff fullfiling for traditional Guard users and enticing to new comers but vehicles in squadrons may be more of a liabilty then a cheese.

Theirs nothing we can really do: we really need a new Codex (even though we can still kick @ss against the newest); and we need some help on mobility. So, I say let these band wagon jumpers come, I'll mow them down just like I mow any other army down that threatens my men with my massed las fire and cannons...


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

I don't really see the big deal. I guess I'll be one of the people jumping on the bandwagon when I start my Traitor Guard army, though I'm hardly a power gamer, and I know how much time and money it will take to put a Guard army together (I imagine it's going to take even more effort when it comes to Traitors). 

I don't really understand why you guys are so worried about what other people are doing with their hobby. I don't play in tournaments, so if there is a huge increase in Guard armies being entered, it's not going bother me at all. Why should it even bother you? I think if you are playing in tournaments you have to expect to come up against a few cheesy lists anyway (I don't really agree with the word cheese being thrown around too often, just because something is hard to beat doesn't make it broken or cheese), and if Imperial Guard is the new choice for power gamers, so be it.

To be honest I think it'll be good to see more Guard forces out on the tabletops, there are supposed to be billions of Guard throughout the universe, so it's even kinda fluffy.

So no, I don't think you should be worried. besides who really knows what will happen when the new codex is released? I knew more people that played Chaos before they got an update. I know a few people jumped on the Daemons bandwagon when it rolled around but they seem to have fallen off rather quickly.


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## General Panic (Jul 31, 2008)

Some poeple will undoubtedly catch a bit of "new 'dex syndrome", but that'll work in regular IG players favour, once the new guys have got bored we'll have a bunch of cheap 2nd hand stuff appearing to boost our numbers with! The new 'dex will be unlikely to convert IG into a powergamers army, we still get crappy lasguns, still don't get an armour save against most basic weapons and you still have to paint buckets of infantry to get a tourney legal army together. So there's some new clanky-tanky goodness, but IG tanks have always needed an experienced hand to get the most out of 'em, and that won't change. It looks (to me) like IG will get a much needed boost, but not so much that it'll change the balance of things in their favour......


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## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

Siege said:


> I don't really understand why you guys are so worried about what other people are doing with their hobby. I don't play in tournaments, so if there is a huge increase in Guard armies being entered, it's not going bother me at all.


Well i do and it's worrying. 



> Why should it even bother you? I think if you are playing in tournaments you have to expect to come up against a few cheesy lists anyway (I don't really agree with the word cheese being thrown around too often, just because something is hard to beat doesn't make it broken or cheese), and if Imperial Guard is the new choice for power gamers, so be it.


Perhaps The real problem is i like to beat power gamers with a rubbish army. I just don't like the idea of guard becoming a power army because of the stigma. I own all the guard codex's back to the beginning and i've played them for a very long time. The only army i've owned longer was my original Orks. I don't use them anymore because of how over hard Ork's are!

On the bright side, it looks like guard will be 50pts per unit, so it wont be as bad as 40pts per unit.


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## Kobrakai (Jul 25, 2008)

I can understand your concern, but I think it's one of those things where the hobby is split down the middle, those who only play for competition and those for fun. That split will always be there, regardless of armies. 

I collect, paint and game with what I want to use, and I don't let myself get worried about power gamers, don't think you should too to be honest, no two gamers are painted with the same brush because they use the same set of rules.

Take the Caribbean approach to the hobby; seriously easy going :so_happy:


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

you should be very worried. Once the new Dex comes out there will be a sworm of new people out playing Guard claiming that "They where always guard players, I just refused to play the old Codex"


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

I dont think you need to be too worried. I think the guard will get a good boost to put them in good contention! but as far as being stupidly OP .... I don't think that will happen.

I would just wait and see before jumping to conclusions.

Cheers,

Chaosftw


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## leinad-yor (Apr 14, 2008)

Every new dex has it's issues, I think that this one will bring a new appreciation to long term Guard players. In my opinion the guard is one of two armies out of the entire game that you really need to think and plan ahead to play. This alone makes them more of a veteran army, and the reason for me starting them like seven years ago. Everything in the army must work together to win you a game and until you learn how to use them you will most likely lose.

The last codex had everything that we needed to win games and I think the new one will be no different. The only thing that we should really need to worry about is the impact all of this new stuff will have on our wallets.

Danny


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

JokerGod said:


> you should be very worried. Once the new Dex comes out there will be a sworm of new people out playing Guard claiming that "They where always guard players, I just refused to play the old Codex"


Oh yeah, alot of people say that about DE too I'm a supporter and "player" of them but I'm waiting for a new dex to play them I can't stand the old one. If you truly love an army and want to play them you will play them no matter edition codex they have.


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

leinad-yor said:


> The last codex had everything that we needed to win games and I think the new one will be no different. The only thing that we should really need to worry about is the impact all of this new stuff will have on our wallets.


A lot of Chaos and Loyalist Marine players said the same thing :shok::shok:


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

There's always the chance that this new Codex will be like Chaos Daemons.

Rare as hell, new 'dex or no.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I think that the IG will get a boost but I doubt they will end up being a power army. But I have not yet read the entire thing and yes I am one that is planning on starting a small IG army.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

I've never done gaurd and intend to use the new codex and releases to get me started.

If thats band wagon jumping I don't give a toss. The reverse snobbery about proving myself by using a shit codex leaves me cold. I like to think I can naturally make a shit army from any codex :grin:


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## Wiccus (Jun 2, 2008)

I kind of was initially worried myself about it because I play Daemons for fantasy and nobody likes to play me because its a "power gaming army". I was afraid of this happening to my guard to that I have played for like 5 years. "Oh you play guard. No I dont want to play you cuz your army is super cheese" terrified of this happening to my 40k army in addition to my fantasy army. But I looked at the points cost of stuff well the atleast projected points costs and it seems like the really good "cheesy" stuff will actually cost a pretty goodly amount of points. people are worried about people fielding 9 russes but thats like a friggin million points. Dont be worried until after the release, and even then dont worry because its an army you love and I am sure you can construct a challenging and tactical army with it in addition to a powerful list.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

I don't get it... you are worried about what people think about your army? :laugh:

Hell! I play Orks for one single reason: I like the Greenskins in general (no matter in what respect except for Tolkiens LotR! those are not ORKS! those are little buggers which have less in common with a real ork as a fish has with a cat) 
and I like the attitude behind the Ork's Fluff and their way getting along.

I rather smile when I see how people react cause they don't know my list I play :taunt: and after I have played some funny games :alcoholic:they change their mind rather quickly about orks being uber.

Of course you can make them "unbeatable"... but also rather boring then.... 

I guess the same will happen with the IG now... you can make em hard... but I am sure you still can play them smart :victory:

I was thinking about getting my IG as my second army... but I'll rather wait.


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## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

Sebi said:


> I don't get it... you are worried about what people think about your army? :laugh:


 
I'm not worried about what people think of my army. Most of the people who know me from GT know that i bring particularly stupid uncompetitive armies. I’m not trying to blow my own trumpet however considering what I take I do really well. 

I just don’t want lots of power gamers looking at guard. I want my Guard to be good but not too good.

Just think how Chaos players feel. Almost every Chaos army at GT is the same. 2 lash, oblits and plague/zerkers.

Ork armies – Ghaz, battlewagons and nob bikers

Elder armies – Eldrad, flying seer circus!

It’s all the same pish!! I want lots of different guard armies. Hundreds of viable combinations! People taking Ogyrns , Ratlings or Rough Riders!

Not just the flight of the Valkyres and Storm troopers and stuff.

You know…. Bugger it. I was going to take a year out but I think I’ll go to GT again this year. I think I’m going to take a balanced army this time (and not something daft) and I think I’m going to try and get the Mr Guard UK title!!

Fuck it!!

Here goes nothing!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Hell, if you want, I'm sure it'll be possible to field a complete fail list with the new Guard that you can put on the table that will make people go, "WTF?" when they see you're not taking tons of Stormtroopers and Leman Russ Executioners. Then you can enjoy beating them in, just like you do now. :laugh:


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

so... you are complaining that all people are just playing the same strong lists to win and you are afraid that "your" IG could end up as just anbother bunch of abused ones for Powergames.

Now I understand you... felt the same when I told my friend I jsut started WH40 with orks and he said... 
"Oh I will start 40k, too now that you tell me you do" Felt great!
"And I will play Orks as well" ....... felt.... like..... well you know what I mean

Now I play speed freaks and he plays his stompers with lots of KJans and bots... we have the same race but there is a BIG difference (and he is the better gamer...so with his army being better and him being better I get usually beaten  )

I guess you will just have to wait and see.
But I get your point now and I understand it.


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## blitz451 (Apr 4, 2008)

just because a list is prone to power gaming doesn't mean you have to do it, read Katie's post above. If you're worried about being perceived as a power gamer just because of the army you play then i'd say you need to stop caring about other peoples perceptions or start playing Sisters of Battle.:grin:


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

I actually hope they do become a powerlist.

I started my 40k involvement with guard. I have a large guard army collecting dust on the shelf so a boost is exactly the thing I need to take them to the upcoming 40k GT.

I'm going to wait until I see the codex before I worry about the hype though, people were raving about the marine codex for months and they turned out shit. 4th ed marines were a top tier list, 5th don't even rank in the top 10.

I hope they are competitive and able to give the ork defectors a good kicking.


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

Captain Galus said:


> A lot of Chaos and Loyalist Marine players said the same thing :shok::shok:


Yes, and we can see how both of them panned out can't we? :rollseyes:

The only potential issue I see is the overwhelming amount of Vehicles they will be able to take. It seems like either a tank or vehicle squad of some sort in every FOC slot. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not looking forward to fighting 17+ vehicles of any kind. With near all of them packing loads of shots or ordnance, seems like we may see the return of Iron Warrior armies. Because... you know... those were fun to play against.


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

I just looked at the latest rumers thread for the first time. Yes you should definately be woried.

If you havent seen it yet, its pretty real looking:

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31321


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## marcch (Apr 1, 2008)

In the end it the new IG codex will be what it is and players will adapt. I have a small guard force and am waiting to see the new edition before I finish up my force. Fluff wise the guard should have a great deal more vehicles than they are currently able to take, and as "lowly" humans it makes sense to do so. The thing I'm happy to see is the plastic drop ship model as that option should have been in the codex last time.


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

hey... I am not afraid of all tha vehicles.... as Greenskin I can set up a bunch of deffkoptas with saws and saw em apart


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## CamTheApostle (Oct 31, 2008)

It will nice to see them get some bite, but I doubt they will become a power list simply because their basic troops are so squishy. However, I will be glad to see them get some bite.


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

orks are not a power army, they just have strong builds. it is the tourny jackasses(no offence) who manipulate this potential to win all the time.
i expect the same of guard.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Dafistofmork said:


> orks are not a power army, they just have strong builds. it is the tourny jackasses(no offence) who manipulate this potential to win all the time.
> i expect the same of guard.


Since the "tournament jackasses" are able to manipulate the list to create an extremely powerful and competitive force, that'd make it a power army, no?


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## Pauly55 (Sep 16, 2008)

The IG codex will really help tournament play for the better I think. Currently there is one viable horde army out there: Orks. Orks make up a fairly large portion of the players, but still there are more MEQs out there. This means that armies are still geared up during army selection with the intention of killing MEQ. Once you see the IG codex come out, there will be two popular horde army lists, and you will see a shift in what people choose during army selection. As a result, Marines will become slightly stronger, and orks/IG weaker.


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## when in doubt shoot! (Oct 19, 2008)

I just suppose it's human nature though, like if you really like a...let's say, alternative style music band,who hardly anyone has heard of apart from you and a small group of friends, but then they release an album, or get in the top chars and become really popular, you feel like crap. Or at least I do. 

That's my metaphor for it, now try and work out what the hell it means :laugh:


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## Lord_Murdock (Jul 16, 2008)

I seriously doubt that IG will become a power list. Remember, a platoon will still need 2 standard squads and a command squad before you can take any special squads (as it looks right now, anyway), and tanks have pretty much been made much more points-costly across the board. Since Hellhounds etc. are (apparently) now heavy support, there'll be a lot less of them around, and their points increase doesn't help. 

There will probably be a lot of really tank-heavy lists once the codex comes out, but at 200 points a pop, there won't be much room for infantry, and unfortunately tanks alone won't win many battles.


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Since the "tournament jackasses" are able to manipulate the list to create an extremely powerful and competitive force, that'd make it a power army, no?


that would mean every army is a power army, with varying levels of difficulty.
my deffinition of a power army is an army that no matter what you take you will always win-even if you took 180 grots, you would still win. well, that is my oppion anyway, disregard it as you will.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Dafistofmork said:


> my deffinition of a power army is an army that no matter what you take you will always win


If that's the case, then no army is a power army. :no:


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