# 40k v starcraft



## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

So we are all well aware that blizzard has been stealing from GW for over 15 years. 

That said how do they stack up?

Terrans v IG? (or SM)

Protoss v Eldar?

Zerg v Tyranids?

both in a who would win scenario and a who has better style.


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

GabrialSagan said:


> So we are all well aware that blizzard has been stealing from GW for over 15 years.
> 
> That said how do they stack up?
> 
> ...


There was a conversation about this not too long ago. Terran technology is quite inferior to SM technology. Eldar technology is quite superior to Protoss technology. Tyranids evolve far, far faster than zerg. No Starcraft race, zerg included, come close to having enough numbers to challenge any major faction in the 40K universe.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

I fail to see how SC and 40k are similar. Please explain.


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## WarlordKaptainGrishnak (Dec 23, 2008)

Originally when DoWII came out some Starcraft players accused Relic/THQ of 'stealing' the ideas for Tyranids off them.

Their 'similarities' are:

Terran = humans, men in space suits, and dreadnougth type walkers, very Space Marine like

Protos = the ancient yet highly advanced alien race, very Eldar like

and Zerg = mysterious all consuming alien race, Tyranids like

i think Blizzard tried to 'borrow' the ideas of the races and didnt expect Games Workshop to allow Relic/THQ to create their own game off the tabletop game


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## countchocula86 (Sep 1, 2008)

I think those ideas, advanced human armies, ancient/elder aliens, devouring biological aliens, have been used time and time again. I dont think its fair to say Blizzard stole them, or to say they are uniquely Games Workshop ideas either. They are cliches, staples of the genre.

As well, the time line is so different, Starcraft is hundreds of years in the future, and WH40K is...well significantly more far advanced. I would expect that 40K races would have an advantage.


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## WarlordKaptainGrishnak (Dec 23, 2008)

apart from GW and asscociated products and Starcraft, specific visual aspects are not common, if you compare the two there are some very suss similarities. this isnt to say Blizzard stole an idea from GW, they simply took what was already there and shaped it to fit their needs, but you can still see from their creations that it is similar to GW.

I also was annoyed at Starcraft players for claiming DoWII stole from them considering how long 40k has been around they surely would have some knowledge of it?


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

countchocula86 said:


> I think those ideas, advanced human armies, ancient/elder aliens, devouring biological aliens, have been used time and time again. I dont think its fair to say Blizzard stole them, or to say they are uniquely Games Workshop ideas either. They are cliches, staples of the genre.
> 
> As well, the time line is so different, Starcraft is hundreds of years in the future, and WH40K is...well significantly more far advanced. I would expect that 40K races would have an advantage.


Exactly. Starship Troopers, Alien, ect. They all use those same scifi cliches.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

It has been mentioned before that starcraft was originally developed in partnership with gw but Gw pulled out, so blizzard had to re-package the game for sale as a separate concept. However some of the original concepts are still visible. I cannot remember where i read this though.

Is it just me or are the {whatever} vs 40k threads getting old?


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

shaantitus said:


> It has been mentioned before that starcraft was originally developed in partnership with gw but Gw pulled out, so blizzard had to re-package the game for sale as a separate concept. However some of the original concepts are still visible. I cannot remember where i read this though.
> 
> Is it just me or are the {whatever} vs 40k threads getting old?


Yes. Very old. Although I may post a Horus Vs Abaddon thread soon:laugh: (at least that makes more sense..)

Its the same story with Warcraft. With slight graphic differences and names (Dark Elves -> Night Elves) then Warcraft essentially is Warhammer Fantasy, so when WAR came out, every diehard Warcraft fan acusses WAR of copying, which is bullshit.

Now Ive never played Starcraft... much... but from what ive seen/heard its more of a copy of Halo/Aliens - in turn copying Starship Troopers...:cray:

But hell! if you want to get into one of these stupid, and non-gaining wars, then pretty much, ALL Fantasy was copied from J.R.R Tolkien`s works (Par Chaos... GW should be very proud of that.... although the whole bussiness with Morgoth then Sauron is - to an extent - chaos-like)


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

shaantitus said:


> It has been mentioned before that starcraft was originally developed in partnership with gw but Gw pulled out, so blizzard had to re-package the game for sale as a separate concept. However some of the original concepts are still visible. I cannot remember where i read this though.


could someone give a reference. This doesn't sound like the most reliable info.



bobss said:


> But hell! if you want to get into one of these stupid, and non-gaining wars, then pretty much, ALL Fantasy was copied from J.R.R Tolkien`s works (Par Chaos... GW should be very proud of that.... although the whole bussiness with Morgoth then Sauron is - to an extent - chaos-like)





> The most powerful of these warp entities are those known as the Chaos Gods, also sometimes referred to as the Dark Gods, Ruinous Powers, or the Powers of Chaos. They are very similar to and may have been influenced by the concept of Chaos from Michael Moorcock's Elric saga, and the godlike extradimensional Great Old Ones of horror writer H. P. Lovecraft's stories.


Chaos doesn't sound very original to me.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Chaos doesn't sound very original to me.


Then good sir, I stand corrected :so_happy:


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## Shacklock (Dec 15, 2009)

it's common knowledge that Warcraft 1 was supposed to be a Warhammer fantasy game till GW pulled out. Diden't know the same went for Starcraft


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

bobss said:


> But hell! if you want to get into one of these stupid, and non-gaining wars, then pretty much, ALL Fantasy was copied from J.R.R Tolkien`s works (Par Chaos... GW should be very proud of that.... although the whole bussiness with Morgoth then Sauron is - to an extent - chaos-like)


Not as much as people like to think. Orcs and halflings are original ceations on Tolkien's part, but Tolkien got his elves, dwarves, and goblins from mythology and folklore. Elves have always been fair forest dwellers. Dwarves have always been bearded craftsman that live beneath mountains. He definitely began some of the more annoying tropes (dwarves are, for whatever reason, obsessed with their beards and a dwarf without a beard is unthinkable), but really, his magic system, his mythology, his plot, and most of the big-picture issues are left unmolested by the good fantasy writers.

As for Starcraft, I can see a lot of 40K influences, yeah, but more with the zerg than any other race. The terran have power armored genetically modified soldiers called ... marines. Pretty suspicious. But it doesn't compare to the zerg, a semi-psychic race of adaptable aliens who communicate through a hive mind that evolve at impossible rates and use bilogical weapons and their rapidly increasing numbers to assimilate lifeforms and strip a planet of its resources. Sounds an awful lot like tyranids to me. Will I accuse them of copying? No, because I like both series and don't particularly care what inspired either of them.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Well obviously SC players who play one franchise and know nothing of GW games is speaking stupid. Yes I say stupid cause their ignorant and making claims without having the facts. Ignor them and let them scream copyright all they want. Truth be told I read that Blizzard was making a Warhammer and 40k game till GW pulled out and twists the concept to thier own uses. That makes Diablo their only original idea. I myself enjoy both games but in the end THQ makes a better game, plain and simple. Lets face it Brood War was impressive back waaaaay then. Now and days its meh.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

I myself have never been a fan of THQ games. They seem more like expensive advertisements than games. Don't get me wrong, they're not terrible, but they don't stand out either. The problem with 40k games as I see it is that you already have all this pre-established fluff and rules that your game has to obey/include, whereas if your building a game from scratch you can build the 'fluff' and 'rules' of your 'world' to suit the game.

Say what you want about blizzard, but they have made some pretty genre defining games. Starcraft is hands down one of (if not) the best RTS games ever made.


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## Shacklock (Dec 15, 2009)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I myself have never been a fan of THQ games. They seem more like expensive advertisements than games. Don't get me wrong, they're not terrible, but they don't stand out either. The problem with 40k games as I see it is that you already have all this pre-established fluff and rules that your game has to obey/include, whereas if your building a game from scratch you can build the 'fluff' and 'rules' of your 'world' to suit the game.
> 
> Say what you want about blizzard, but they have made some pretty genre defining games. Starcraft is hands down one of (if not) the best RTS games ever made.


Your saying Company of Heroes doesent stand out? It's pretty much hands down the best RTS of late. Personally I think the opposite of you. I find Blizzard games lacking and quite simple. Diablo, Warcraft series and starcraft are all very basic games. Sure Warcraft was alright but Age of Empires did the same thing much better.


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## countchocula86 (Sep 1, 2008)

I think that simplicity is, in fact, the strength of Blizzard games. They are easy to understand and play, with simple, and straightforward rules that allow for a lot of good competition.

But OBVIOUSLY!!!!!! no game will ever appeal to every single gamer. Im not trying to argue that Blizzard games are perfect, or the best. But they are backed by numbers, which I think says something. (But again, not the best, not for everyone)


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Maybe I have mixed up the origins of warcraft and starcraft. My apologies.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

shaantitus said:


> Maybe I have mixed up the origins of warcraft and starcraft. My apologies.


you did. But you are forgiven. It is true that Warcraft was originally meant to be Warhammer and then GW pulled out at the last minute. Blizzard made the game anyway and the rest is history. The Blizzard folks have never been shy about that fact that they draw heavily from Warhammer. How can you look at the Protoss and Zerg and NOT think they were copied off the Eldar and Tyranids?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

I see a lot of differences between them.. but not enough. The Terrans are too much like the Space Marines, minus the honour, and the Zerg are basically Tyranids with a higher level of individuality.

Protoss however do not remind me of the Eldar. I think they are unique since I dont really see any similarities besides their disdain for humans.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

countchocula86 said:


> I think that simplicity is, in fact, the strength of Blizzard games. They are easy to understand and play, with simple, and straightforward rules that allow for a lot of good competition.


Yep, simplicity is best.


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## GabrialSagan (Sep 20, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> I see a lot of differences between them.. but not enough. The Terrans are too much like the Space Marines, minus the honour, and the Zerg are basically Tyranids with a higher level of individuality.
> 
> Protoss however do not remind me of the Eldar. I think they are unique since I dont really see any similarities besides their disdain for humans.


a race of psionics who have technology so advanced that it may as well be magic don't remind you of the Eldar?


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## WarlordKaptainGrishnak (Dec 23, 2008)

you must look at Starcraft as 40K-abridged, its the same up to a point, then it takes on a whole new form and its...well...different...


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## K3k3000 (Dec 28, 2009)

GabrialSagan said:


> a race of psionics who have technology so advanced that it may as well be magic don't remind you of the Eldar?


The protoss are a race of noble warriors with immense psychic potential and weaponry who have been split into both "light" and dark factions and are currently being pushed toward extinction. Yeah, I guess I can see it. The eldar's decline into decadence kinda distinguishes them, though.


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## Jeanms_247 (Mar 3, 2010)

If anything, the Terrans would be considered rebels and swiftly pulled back into the fold. Zergs are probably a splinter of a Hive fleet and Protoss are ... eldars


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

OH MY GOD don't get me started about why Fantasy was not invented by J.R.R. Tolkien.

Just ask RedOrc if he is still around.


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## Chaosrider (Feb 3, 2010)

Fantasy invented by Tolkien? I don't see that... And anyway, if he had there wouldn't be LotR TT game. They would be really similar, and they aren't really... THERE WOULD BE HOBBITS!


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## vacantghost (Feb 16, 2008)

first of all.

starcraft is not in equal standing when their tech/lore/age/originality is compared with the 40k franchise.

Terrans, even if they had armor of equal standards, they're still humans, they're personalities havent been denatured, they are still viable to effects such as panic, morale loss which leads to routing and pathetic no good pussy waggers.


in short, nothing, from starcraft, absolutely nothing, will ever beat anything, from 40k :3


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## Coder59 (Aug 23, 2009)

Personally I've allways viewed Blizzard as a mickey mouse organisation pandering to the kiddy gamers. Nothing they've really done has ever struck me as worth spit. But they are good at marketing. Even back in the day before Blizzard started to resemble a Hive Fleet i wasn't impressed with their output. 

Warcraft? Give me Age of Empires.
Starcraft? I'll have Command and Conquer thanks.
Diablo 1/2? Give me Baldurs Gate, Nox and Fallout. 
World of Warcraft? Everquest 2 please.

I view Blizzard as pretty much a kiddy company. They know how to sell games to people who normally don't play games. They haven't really EVER done anything new or distinct preferring to borrow heavily from more original better crafted games. Both Tabletop and Video.


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## nivik (Mar 16, 2010)

im prity sure starcraft stole the idea, cause GW was there first, start craft just thought they had it in the bag


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## Twisted (Mar 11, 2010)

bobss said:


> ...ALL Fantasy was copied from J.R.R Tolkien`s works


And Tolkein copied from other sources such as Norse mythology. Have a read at the Edda.

In Norse mythology there are dark and light elves, but they aren't necessarily good and evil. If I remember rightly, light elves were primarily of the air of sorts.

Also dwarves created around the time of Midgard (middle earth), turn into stone in sunlight... If memory serves me well.

Even the symbolism of the ring could be said to have been borrowed.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Twisted said:


> And Tolkein copied from other sources such as Norse mythology. Have a read at the Edda.
> 
> In Norse mythology there are dark and light elves, but they aren't necessarily good and evil. If I remember rightly, light elves were primarily of the air of sorts.
> 
> ...


Some nice information to know, although it doesn't really change bobss's point in that everything is essentially partly based on something else.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

everything is tasken from someone else idea to a degree, but usually then have enough differences to avoid lawsuits.


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## nivik (Mar 16, 2010)

what i think is that blizzard did take the art concept from GW, but i dont think they took the idea, as said above, its prity common, the only real simularity is that the 2 of them look so similar, i think the base idea was GM's though, because Marines to look a lot like SM and the zerglings are ridiculously similar to tyranids.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Does it really matter? SC is great, who cares if they copied someone else's idea? It's not like any of GW's ideas are original anyway. Seriously, the mawlock? Your not fooling anyone GW, just call it the sandworm.


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