# Versus... Dual Dragon High Elf Lists



## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Hi all,

Continuing with the Fantasy Versus... series, next on the list is Dual Dragon High Elf Lists (suggested by Othiem and Fire_Rider). If you want to add your suggestions as to who Fantasy Versus should deal with next, go here for the general thread.

So, Dual Dragon High Elf Lists, how do you combat these fearsome double monster armies? The supporting list itself is likely not to be too dangerous, but the two dragons often make up for that! There are 3 variants of dual dragon lists at 2000 points. Prince and a dragon mage, archmage and dragon mage or dual dragon mage. The major difference being that dual dragon mages are both on sun dragons, so this is the cheapest and most fragile option in terms of the punishment the dragons can take. Princes and archmages can take more powerful dragons and more magic items, though of course this makes the combo more expensive. It is worth mentioning that a dragon/griffon combo is also powerful and is worth discussing along with dragons in this sense.

So really we should consider what the dragons bring to the table. Though they are all T6 their other stats vary considerably, a sun dragon brings 4 S5 attacks with only 5 wounds. A moon dragon brings 5 S6 attacks with an extra wound and a star dragon brings 6 S7 attacks with 7 wounds. Their WS ranges from 5 to 7 so isn't game breaking, but makes them likely to hit most things in combat. A griffon is more or less a T5 moon dragon with 1 less wound. Then there is the SSS of 5+ to 3+ and fiery breath of S2 to S4.

You can usually assume your opponent will make an effort to protect their dragons and riders, particularly the general. That said a flying, terror causing, multi-wound dragon is not something to be sniffed at! Feel free to talk about all aspects of a dual dragon list, whether it be the dragon, rider, magic spells and items or indeed the rest of the list.

So how do you plan to combat them? Do you have a preferred unit or tactic that works every time? Do you just rely on shooting and artillery and hope your opponent fails the saves enough? Are you always able to counter with your own powerful units? Do you take a unit with immunity to flaming attacks just for this very eventuality?


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Well Ive faced a dual archmage list once, and as i recall it was a pretty hard fight, but i won. I play WoC so i don't really have the artillery options of other armies but to be honest, sun dragons just aren't that great. i killed one in combat and just hit the other with uranons thunderbolt. The problem with that list is that A) one of the mages (or other dragon riding hero/lord) is bound to be the general so his units lose that leadership, though they don't really need it. B) that that is expensive and high elves are an elite army and by taking 2 dragons either two cheap or one cheap one costly, they severely subtract from the power of the rest of the army so once even one of those dragons dies his force becomes so much easier to deal with, also with a dual mage list by throwing them into combat they lose that magic missile power and to be honest even with flaming sword, he is still an elf on a sub-par dragon. so that list isn't too much of a problem i have yet to fight an archmage on dragon or a prince duel dragon list so that's all i can say on the matter!


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

A Dual Dragon list isn't the prime competitive list for High Elves. As Sven said, it's far too expensive, and hence is detrimental to the composition of the overall force. Two Dragon lists will have roughly half their points in these four characters alone. Take out another three hundred for minimum core, and you're only looking at seven hundred points for Special Units. Granted, it's easy to fill that gap with Dragon Princes to create an uber-cheese list, but that still leaves a lot to be desired.

For all those proposing using artillery: a (good) player would have to be horrendously unlucky or unwary to allow such an opportunity. Unless you play with no terrain, your odds of cannon-sniping the Dragons is slim to impossible. You'll have to find other avenues of approach.
What is likely to happen, in an idea situation, is the High Elf player will seek to neutralize your artillery and other heavy units first and foremost. You should focus on keeping them in the game, in the case that an opportunity for them to unleash whatever skills they may have against the Dragons, or some other important target. Again, as Sven said, once you bring down those uber-expensive characters, there won't be much left to carry on the fight, but boy will they be able to fight.
[I apologize for saying "a good player." I know I focused on a certain group there, while insulting another. I don't like to do that, and I meant no insult. I only refer to a Tournament Style of thinking here, no slander.]

Magic could potentially work. There are enough spells that can cause enough harm to the Dragon and rider (avoiding armor saves, not allowing movement, etc). The idea behind magic, however, is always random, so it isn't to be relied upon. Do remember that the fabled dispel abilities of the High Elves will be severely reduced, with only one mage, or one mage and one archmage (5 DD max). The only things to save the High Elf player at that point would be Scrolls and Magic Resistance. If you bring enough magic, it will get through at some point (if you can get the spells off, of course  ).

Now, onto Combat. This has to be the most reliable way to take out the Dragons, if not the scariest. You won't want to pit the Dragons against anything that isn't a pure-bred combat killer. I'm thinking another Character on a Monstrous Mount. All you would have to do is take down the Dragon. Simple as that. Once you do that, you'll outnumber the lone Elf and cause Terror (or Fear), making that Elf run away. You overrun. Easy. Somewhat.
If you don't have that kind of Character, you'll have to use Combat Resolution against it. Again, I'd recommend going for the Dragon if a Prince is atop. An archmage or mage will fall easily and offer some decent Victory points, but the Dragon will likely do some damage, so that's up for debate.



So, to recap:
-Artillery shouldn't work as well as you would hope. Use something else!
-Magic can work. Be wise with it!
-In Combat, focus on bringing down the Dragon first. The just run over whoever is riding it.

Easy.:music:


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

I've never even heard of a dual dragon list winning, to be honest. Its like taking all of your eggs and putting them in one basket, but turned up to eleven.


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## D'Haran (Jun 17, 2009)

I've got a 3kpt HE list I've been running with for a few weeks in prep for a tourney, I took 2 Princes on Star Dragons. While I understand the criticism most of it is that the Dragons either die (bad maneuvering if you ask me) or they don't do enough. I've been keeping these 2 together, often not charging until the 3rd-4th turn so I get what I want, and I've only lost 1 game against a full recycle VC army (I killed the count, but he rezzed in a far away unit and it took me 3 combat phases to eat to him, not to mention my 2 lion chariots I hit the front end with). I've lost the princes a few times, even a dragon once, but I find most armies struggle against such tactics.

So 2 princes on star dragons charging a unit in unison = hard to beat so good luck.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

I used a bolt of change from my lord of change and got 11 strength 10 hits, bye bye dragon, although not many armies have such powerful spells available which will smite a dragon in a single spell...

The greater daemon itself is able to tackle the lower range dragons too and when I add in heralds of khorne with fire blades at S7 I'm not really lacking options to tackle them, with my tomb kings though it's far more difficult, the hoard armies seem to have more issues tackling the dragon spam than the elite armies. Naturally as well my ward save is always there which reduces the damage the dragon does, increasing the chance of it losing due to SCR.


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## D'Haran (Jun 17, 2009)

Oh I very much agree with you, there's plenty out there capable of killing them, I would never take them against someone who wrote an army specifically to kill monsters or anything, but for a 3k tourney army where you don't get to know forehand what you'll be facing it's more effective. Granted I do live in constant fear of some warmachines as well as various specified characters and units (dwarf lord in longbeards). With the high movement and a little patience I can usually come out on top ignoring those units I'd rather not face.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Ogres hate flying units- either they are too fast and get to charge and destroy ogre units at will or they just avoid me.
The best ways of killing dragons are me charging it... which will never happen against a good player.

The only ways that will work are unfortunately all S2- gnoblars can be really effective against dragons (4+to hit, 5+ to hit the elf, 5+ to wound him- but 2 shots each mean 40 shots for 40pts) and our magic missile is excellent: multiple butchers can cast it multiple times, at 2D6 S2 with no armour saves those dragon riders will really be relying on their ward saves.... Ive never managed to kill the dragon itself (but then Ive only faced them in legendary battles where Ive relied on allies to do that job).

Against a dual dragon list I think I would have to just sacrifice a unit every other turn (have sacrificial units on the flanks and let the dragon overrun into open space)... meanwhile my army could race forward and smash the rest of the High Elf army. I would hope that the dragons couldnt do enough damage to me before the end of the battle to rescue the battle.


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