# Suck, thy name be alpha legion.



## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

I have enjoyed all of the HH books... Well I did up until Legion.

There is so much CRAP in this book that it blows my mind. Anyone else think Alpharius was a real wimp? A 'fugg'n' human IG commander was telling him how things were going to go? Leman Russ or Angron would have put up with that garbage - they would have popped his head like a pimple (as they should).

And what a stupid reason to go traitor. I think 2 more primarchs on Horus's battle barge + another entire legion of loyalist marines on the ground could have made all the difference and than the emp. would not have been taken out.

My only consilation is reading on the internet Alpharius dies the most unglamorus death of all the primarchs - he gets B-smacked.


At the end of the book a crappy human was able to stab him and draw blood - what a joke.

With that book behind me (thankfully) I am reading Abyss now. I hope to god it gets better.


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

Good luck, I thought Abyss was crap. If you like chaos then you'll likely agree, the amount of impossibly stupid odds being surmounted with ease by the Ultras if just F***ing retarded.

But why the hate for Legion? I thought DOA was by far the worst.


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## pchandler43 (Nov 28, 2008)

I enjoyed Legion, then again I play IG and the descriptions of the Imperial Army was very interesting.


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

i enjoyed Legion a lot simply because it shed light on why the AL joined horus. and yeah, even though that lucifer black guy (cant remember his name) did manage to hit Alpharius, he probably let him do that or something. not like it matters for a primarch, thats like equivalent to being flicked in the nose for him.

as for Abyss, i liked it as well simply because i loved that psycho berzerker skraal. he felt like a perfrect representation of a WE to me.


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

i liked Legion, it was quite an interesting book, of course Alpharius isnt the fighting sort but the way hes fights is quite cool, if Russ or Angron would have killed the IG leader they would have to fight a whole lot of guard, Alpharius is more secretive and tactical which makes him cool.

---EDIT---

by the way Zooey 72, on your the first thread you wrote "A 'fugg'n' human IG commander was telling him how things were going to go? Leman Russ or Angron would have put up with that garbage" i think you wanted to write that Leman Russ or Angron would have *NOT* put up with that garbage


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Zooey72 said:


> I have enjoyed all of the HH books... Well I did up until Legion.
> 
> There is so much CRAP in this book that it blows my mind. Anyone else think Alpharius was a real wimp? A 'fugg'n' human IG commander was telling him how things were going to go? Leman Russ or Angron would have put up with that garbage - they would have popped his head like a pimple (as they should).
> 
> ...


I'd have preffered to see/hear more about the legion and less about imperial guard(HOW many books do we need on them!) I thought it displayed exactly what the legion was all about. Secrecy and deception. The smallest glimpses into the minds and actions of the alpha legion was all the incentive I needed, and it reflected them well in the writing style.

Also way to miss the point of alpha legion. I believe you need something a little less subtle, like say world eaters.


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

LordWaffles said:


> I'd have preffered to see/hear more about the legion and less about imperial guard(HOW many books do we need on them!)


In the HH series? I haven't read that many, but I know nearly all of them are Space Marine focused, but you're complaining about too much guard?


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

thomas2 said:


> In the HH series? I haven't read that many, but I know nearly all of them are Space Marine focused, but you're complaining about too much guard?


 yeah Legion had to much Guard elements to the story, less than half of it was actual marines.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

thomas2 said:


> In the HH series? I haven't read that many, but I know nearly all of them are Space Marine focused, but you're complaining about too much guard?


the HH novels do have the imperial army ( IG didn't exist until after the heresy)
featured pretty prominently. 

i think that it is to both show that the heresy didn't just involve space marines, but imperial military at all levels, and to give a feel for exactly how powerful the marines were, by comparing the two elements.

i think that complaints about descent of angels is premature, as the second part is due out soon according to the BL website.

I totally agree with Lord waffles, to complain that you didn't see many Alpha legionnaires is missing the point, you won't see them until it is too late.
they also don't operate en masse like the other legions, but as smaller elements that use auxiliaries. The alpha legion is the only force in 40k that can have the entire force represented by a 1500-1750 point list. all of the others you are only seeing a small portion of the overall army.


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## Fangio (Nov 23, 2008)

Zooey72 said:


> My only consilation is reading on the internet Alpharius dies the most unglamorus death of all the primarchs - he gets B-smacked.


As well as clearly missing the point of the book in general, you claerly didn't quite grasp the very simple act of deceit the Alpha Legion play on everyone. They are all Alpharius.

So maybe the Ultramarines did kill Alpharius but that would do jack as a) they are designed to fight without a high command structure b) he has a twin c) it probably wasn't even Alpharius.

Personally I am a DA player and so I loved the carefully written deceit in the book. The lack of often seeing the actual AL made sense to me as, well, that's how they work. Seemed the best way to represent their sneakiness to me. I love the idea as well that the Imperium has a potentially traitor legion (DA) and Chaos has a potentially loyalist legion.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

thomas2 said:


> In the HH series? I haven't read that many, but I know nearly all of them are Space Marine focused, but you're complaining about too much guard?


Guard books in general, not the HH series specifically. Though I'll admit they COULD have used a little more Legion content...though I suppose that thirst is what was meant to be conveyed.


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

Son of mortarion said:


> the HH novels do have the imperial army ( IG didn't exist until after the heresy)
> featured pretty prominently.


IM pretty sure there were IG during the HH, i even think that the military in Legion were IG, Horus had a whole expedition with him


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## Fangio (Nov 23, 2008)

If you look again I promise that the "IG" in the HH series are the Imperial Army. There is strictly no difference between the two except the name. I suppose the Army was designed to spread the Emperor's territory while the IG are simple there to stall its inevitable loss.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Ferrus Manus said:


> IM pretty sure there were IG during the HH, i even think that the military in Legion were IG, Horus had a whole expedition with him


nope, they were not imperial guard, that was not created until after the heresy, read the imperial guard codex, it has the history, albeit brief of the guard.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Fangio said:


> If you look again I promise that the "IG" in the HH series are the Imperial Army. There is strictly no difference between the two except the name. I suppose the Army was designed to spread the Emperor's territory while the IG are simple there to stall its inevitable loss.


Actually there are few major difference:

1. The imperial army was controled by the Space Marines.
2. The Imperial Army had its own battle fleets, allowing them to have freedom of transport throughout space.
3. The Imperial Army was spilt into PDF's, the Guard and the Navy.


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

you apparently do not appreciate the subtleties of the alpha legion. so far each HH book plays to the legion and its "face" that everybody knows. 

the first three show us the luna wolves and how they fought

the flight of the eisenstein shows us the resiliance and determination of the death gaurd against all odds

the descent of angels shows us the very secretive nature of the dark angels

fulgrim shows us the emperor's children's pursuit for perfection nad their monstrous pride

battle for the abyss shows us the word bearers' dogmatiscim and obsessiveness, the ultramarines' sense of honor and duty, the world eaters' sense of martial prowess and honor and of course the space wolves vikingness 

as for legion it is written to show how secretive and duplicative the legion actually is. ALL of the legions fought differently and just because the alpha legion uses secrecy, lies, and spies to achieve what other legions do does not mean they suck ass, indeed it means that they could be considered the most tactically sound and inventive becuase they suffer minimal loss and achieve large objectives.


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## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

BlackApostleVilhelm said:


> you apparently do not appreciate the subtleties of the alpha legion. so far each HH book plays to the legion and its "face" that everybody knows.
> 
> the first three show us the luna wolves and how they fought
> 
> ...


I think you are mistaking secretive for stupid. Never mind 90% of the book is about 1 meeting and how it will be arranged... but their decision in the end is moronic.

Kill off the human race quick so that xenos can inherit the galaxy. Hey man, I am a rabid speciesist. Human race first and always.

You can't even really make the argument that it was to destroy chaos. As Gramaticus said they knew very little about Chaos, but with one look into the xeno crystal ball they are willing to destroy all of humanity. That is why in the context of 40k the emp is right - do not suffer a xeno to live. And besides, if humans don't run the galaxy who gets it? Orcs? Tyranids? Humanity may be a stinky turd but it is the least stinky turd on a huge pile of xeno crap.

The other primarchs fell in tragic ways for the most part. Alpha legion fell because they take the short bus to battle.


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## Fangio (Nov 23, 2008)

The "suffer not the xenos to live argument is weak here as Alpharius was the last of the Primarchs to be found and as such the least "in tune" with Imperial thought. I doubt he really was that bothered by xenos as everything is a useful means to his ends. 

Out of interest who do collect?

EDIT: Also what is so great about humans anyway? The Imperiums sucks and everything has to die off eventually, so why should we take the whole galaxy with us?


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## Grik (Jul 28, 2008)

Zooey72 said:


> The other primarchs fell in tragic ways for the most part. Alpha legion fell because they take the short bus to battle.


:laugh: That is going in my Sig. I've liked all the HH books up until MEchanicum- I haven't read that one yet. I think the job of playing to a Legion's strengths was brilliant. Although I will say reading Legion it felt like I was reading an IG book, not a book about a Space Marine Legion.


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Fangio said:


> Personally I am a DA player and so I loved the carefully written deceit in the book.


Hear hear! Legion was one of my favorite books in the HH series and *GASP* I'm a DA player too!:victory::mrgreen:


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Zooey72 said:


> I think you are mistaking secretive for stupid. Never mind 90% of the book is about 1 meeting and how it will be arranged... but their decision in the end is moronic.


If the book was about me and my legion, I'd have made the same choice. Lousy guardsmen stinking up my book with their averageness.



Zooey72 said:


> Kill off the human race quick so that xenos can inherit the galaxy. Hey man, I am a rabid speciesist. Human race first and always.


Alpharius is cold-hearted and a manipulator. He's going with the side that wins. Plus he might have xeno-fever.



Zooey72 said:


> You can't even really make the argument that it was to destroy chaos. As Gramaticus said they knew very little about Chaos, but with one look into the xeno crystal ball they are willing to destroy all of humanity. That is why in the context of 40k the emp is right - do not suffer a xeno to live. And besides, if humans don't run the galaxy who gets it? Orcs? Tyranids? Humanity may be a stinky turd but it is the least stinky turd on a huge pile of xeno crap.


I think the actual only quoted text between Alpharius and the Emperor was something like 
Emperor:Hi.
Alpha:Hey how ya doin.
Horus:Hey, let's go somewhere else.
Emperor:Bye and such.

But within those twelve seconds of heated dialogue, the emperor had imparted his xenos-hating, asscan, six-man squads dogma into the twins. Besides, Alpharius was obviously insane, not stupid, just not always working the same angle. Like blowing up a construction site you work at just to work at repairing it.



Zooey72 said:


> The other primarchs fell in tragic ways for the most part. Alpha legion fell because they take the short bus to battle.


They like to assume that even if they don't devote everything to the battle, they'll still win in the long run. They usually succeed. And tragic ways?
"WOLF FOR THE WOLF GOD! Oh no! My liver is imploding from a lifestyle of alcoholism and speech impediments! Blargh"

"I'm a crazy oogiedyboogiedy night god goth thing. Now watch as I fade into the background of a much more interesting story."

"Hey...ravens and such. Bye guys, I'ma go be emo and write poetry somewhere."

"HAH! I am the ultra mehreens god! Watch as I write a book no one cares to read from, than ultimately die from a small cut from a rapier, the sissiest of all weapons, weilded by a man best defined as a 'hedonistic drug pusher' blargh"

"And now, I Alpharius, will fight you: mary sue character from ultramarines." 
*shoves joenobody up front* 
"But unfortunately scrubs is on and I gotta jet"


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## Gakmesideways (Aug 16, 2008)

Aye, I'm going to have to agree with Fangio. I think rampant fanboism for primarchs is getting in the way of how well the book was actually written.

None of the HH books are high literature, but this one was by far the most gripping and page turning, all the way to the end. And the twist about Alpharius having a twin?

No one saw that coming. No body. That was a jaw drop moment.


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## Trevor Drake (Oct 25, 2008)

yes it was amazing, and it leads me to think that in the realm of possibility, this could be true. Look at 13th Company, they are loyalists in the warp, and yet they stay true to the emperor and only suffer mutation from their own genetic flaw. Who is to say that Alpha Legion would not be the same.

But anywho, Legion was an amazing book, both on the take of the chapter and the Imperial Guard, and I would read it over and over again and again. If you are open minded to fluff and looking for a great book, look no further, and dont let the fluff get in the way, tis the 40th millenium, anything can happen in the realm of possibilities.


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## Lord of Rebirth (Jun 7, 2008)

I really liked Legion. One of the best in the HH series so far despite the lack of Marine insanity (By this I mean the crazy and cool stuff the marines do and get to do). I'm not a big fan of Imp army/Guard since I'm an Iron Warrior guy myself ingrained with the idea the Iron Warriors rule everything within their reach and control armies like tools but I really liked the Geno Five Two structure and idealism minus the Emperor/Imperium support.

I had a lot more to say but it went away while I was being angry about something so I'll post this now instead of scaring people away with my white hot blood rage.


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## Kickback (May 9, 2008)

Ok, so just because its a HH book doesnt mean it has to have loads of Marines in it, the heresy did include all elements of the Imperium, those who think less of the book because of that, should not bother reading Mechanicum, you'll hate it.

/Rant

Legion was a well crafted book, by easily the best writer in the BL, and showed wonderfully how Alpha legion operated, their choice, no, their sacrifice was done because of proper reasons. yeah humanity gets shafted but ultimately good will prevail which even the Emp would agree with...right?

Oh and for the record Abyss was a steaming pile of turd


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

sorry i think that guilliman died in the pussiest way possible. a knife wound? are you serious? but oh the knife had poison on it! who gives a fuck you have to get really close to someone to cut them with a knife, more so than a sword or axe or any other weapon for that matter. the fact that guilliman let fulgrim get that close to him shows how stagnant he had truly become. as for alpharius getting killed by guilliman, you really believe the reports of a veteran sergeant? especially after they got their asses handed to them just like dorn did in the iron cage, only the ultramarines had to have pulled something from it so they lied and said they killed alpharius. alpharius was just as big as horus who was one of the biggest, and did i mention he had a twin and used doubles ALL the time. guilliman didnt kill him he killed a double, and once he realized that he was shamed so he said he did kill him. even if alpharius was dead omegon still lives. so the point is moot, guilliman died the pussiest death.


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## Semaj (Oct 14, 2008)

Persionaly DOA Was the MOST terrible book there IS in the series... next to Legion.... Really Against the emporor... for the emproror? how Retarted is that?! And DOA?The story line was basicly oh planet planet planet killing beasts crap like that and then All of a suden OOP there is the emporor now we are all space marines YAY. Oh no why is the Primarch a dushe all of a suden beacuse I saved his ass with psycik powers? It was a terrible book And I dont look forward to any continuation of the book.



So IMO
First 3 = the cats meow.
flight of the Esenstien \Fulgrum(not enoufgh salamanders u_u Vulcan got like 2 Sentences in the entire book. "something somehting weapon" " fall back its too dangerous") decent but STILL MILES away from
POOOP DOA LEgion

Havent read the abyss or mechanicus (obviously beacuse it has not come out yet)


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## Fluff'Ead (Aug 22, 2007)

I liked the Alpha Legion better when they joined Horus just to show how much ass they kick.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Going to have to disagree with some of you here, my list of favourite HH novels is as follows:

Fulgrim/Legion
Mechanicus
Horus Rising
False Gods
Galaxy in Flames
Flight of the Eisenstein
Descent of Angels
Battle for the Abyss


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## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> If the book was about me and my legion, I'd have made the same choice. Lousy guardsmen stinking up my book with their averageness.
> 
> 
> Alpharius is cold-hearted and a manipulator. He's going with the side that wins. Plus he might have xeno-fever.
> ...


Ok, this is what you really can't argue with. There were 2 possible scenerios that could take place and in both the human race dies. In one scenerio Alpha Legion fights for humanity, in the other he allows it to die. There is no getting around that, and his logic for letting it die quickly is stupid. If they wanted to make it interesting (and go in line with Alpha Legion's concept) they would have had Alpharius join one side, and Omega join the other (Omega would have to disguise himself as a grunt). Both go to Terra to fight and look for the op. to destroy both Horus and the emp. They could have played both sides against each other for the common good of avoiding both futures. Instead in their "wisdom" they opt to destroy humanity quickly as opposed to letting it exist for another 10k years so that chaos is destroyed and the xenos inherit the galaxy. k:

That's how it should have gone down. As it would have turned out at least one of them would have been transported to the battle barge to fight horus (the other could have been there just being a grunt on horus's ship). They watch the battle between the emp and horus and intervene on the side of the person losing. Once one side is dead - kill the other weakened side and than we have mass anarchy. Mankind goes on and alpha legion is seen as traitors to both sides.

I don't think this storyline is as good as the real one. But if you want to make alpha legion look like more than a bunch of retarded kids they needed to do a whole lot better than the explanation they gave.


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## Kevko (Oct 9, 2008)

1 thing I don't seem to understand is the Alpha Legion in the current timeline.

So they decide to side with Horus to help save the galaxy from chaos, but they are still in truth loyal to the Emperor and mankind. So how come some of them now are chaos worshipers with mutations, etc. or is all that just still a ploy to make it seem like they're chaos marines instead of just traitor marines?

another thing is, since horus failed, and their goal to end humanity to save it from chaos ended with that failure, why didn't they switch sides again...ask forgiveness or something, instead of staying on the side of the traitors.

was really thinking of starting an Alpha Legion army, but using all mk5 and m6, maybe a few mk7 regular marine armor instead of chaos armor.


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## pylco (Jun 2, 2008)

in terms of crappiness Descent of angels comes first ( what a lame ending! and slow, slow.. very slow pace of story).Then comes Abyss ( super super star destroyer is destroyed by a frigate?) and then comes Legion ( Alpharius was cool before i read the book now he is boring, -just shoot the b*stards! stop the secresy and shoot!)


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