# Brother Cato and his Chaos Warband OF DOOM



## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

Well it's been a while since I attempted a 40K project. Time to get to work on one!

I'll be honest with people, there is an actual reason for this one. Everywhere I've been and looked, there has been nothing but complaining about the Chaos codex. They say the sole possible build is Helldrake Spam. They say that Champions of Chaos is one of the worst army wide special rules. They say we haven't a chance in hell against any of the other books.

I'm here to say...we're not Codex: Cruddancenids. And we're also here to prove you very, very wrong. Therefore the army has several tenants:


There will be absolutely NO Hellturkeys in the army. While I don't like Flyers in this edition in general, the Hellturkey gets more than it's fair share as being an extreamly broken flyer. The actual reason I'm not taking even one however is because I view it as overused, and there are other options in the book you can use that can be just as terrifying.
I will be using the Champions of Chaos rule as an advantage by properly kitting out my Squad Leaders where possible. While this may not save them from the wrath of Marneus Calgar, it means in most scenarios that my squad leaders are going to have a better time claiming those all important buffs from the Champions of Chaos table.
Should I consider expanding further beyond 2000pts, I will add more units considered low to mid tier. This means more Warp Talons, Obliterators, Mutilators, Cult Marine squads (in Elites sections of the army no less) and anything else that sounds like it can fit the bill. The first 2000pts has already been worked out, so it's a bit late to deliver on anything else.

The Chaos Warband is divided into two sections - The Cult of the Imperial Truth and an unnamed Chaos Space Marine Warband. I say unnamed because I've yet to figure out both a paint scheme and background for them.










At any rate, let us begin.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Ah another coming Chaos Champion who is taking up this army again - I completely agree with your assessment of the army and I have the same mentality. 

I will look forward to seeing your progress :good:


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

People who rag on the Chaos Space Marines are dumb. I don't run a heldrake either, and I consistently win. Basic Chaos Space Marines with a bolter, bolt pistol, and close combat weapon are pretty amazing since they're good at whatever your opponent isn't good at. Need to charge? No problem. Need to shoot? They can do that too. Stick in a couple special weapons and you're good to go. Also, Chaos Terminators are cheap for what they are. Real cheap. Combi-bolters and power axes get the job done, and you can bring 10 of them for less than 350 points after giving out some upgrades. 

I also get a lot of mileage out of Chosen assault squads. You don't need to give them much of anything, even though they can take almost anything they want-- pass out a couple flamers, maybe, and make sure the champion is ready for a fight, but they're cheaper than Berserkers, happen to have bolters if you need 'em, and throw four attacks apiece on the charge.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

I greet your project, good ser. Altough i say that CSM are a force to be reckoned with: unless you play the serpentspam eldar or the "autopilot" tau lists, you will crush faces. I've played lots of games in 6th, losing only 2-3 games in total and without ever using an heldrake. Fuck the xeno scum, kill them all! GLORY TO SLAANESH!!


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## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

The Son of Horus said:


> People who rag on the Chaos Space Marines are dumb. I don't run a heldrake either, and I consistently win. Basic Chaos Space Marines with a bolter, bolt pistol, and close combat weapon are pretty amazing since they're good at whatever your opponent isn't good at. Need to charge? No problem. Need to shoot? They can do that too. Stick in a couple special weapons and you're good to go. Also, Chaos Terminators are cheap for what they are. Real cheap. Combi-bolters and power axes get the job done, and you can bring 10 of them for less than 350 points after giving out some upgrades.
> 
> I also get a lot of mileage out of Chosen assault squads. You don't need to give them much of anything, even though they can take almost anything they want-- pass out a couple flamers, maybe, and make sure the champion is ready for a fight, but they're cheaper than Berserkers, happen to have bolters if you need 'em, and throw four attacks apiece on the charge.


Considering people like to rag on Chosen, I wonder why I picked a certain other low tier unit over Chosen. Definately something to consider.

At any rate, I spent today putting together over 40 Black Reach Cultists (largely to keep things cheap, they form a big mob of 35 men), making up the entirety of The Cult of the Imperial Truth, and these guys -










Photo is not great quality, but that's 5 Chaos Terminators packing Combi Meltas (and when I can find some appropriate bits, Power Swords) and a Reaper Autocannon and my Chaos Lord. He's a Khornate Lord with a Combi Melta and Axe of Blind Fury. Why the Axe? Well the nerfs he gets aren't that bad - at worst, he has the same WS and BS as a Chaos Sorcerer, so he can still shoot straight and be as hard as nails in combat. I'm not sure how Rage works in 7th Edition though, so hopefully he won't be gallivanting around the map after the closest unit, a la 5th Edition. On the upsides, it's a Demon Weapon with an AP of 2 that strikes in Initiative Order - and as we all know, AP2 weapons that strike in Initiative Order are a rare sight these days. This in itself makes up for the debuffed WS and BS.

Oh and if anyone's wondering, the Lord's head is borrowed from a WHFB Chaos Warrior, while his Axe is from a WHFB Chaos Knight. The Terminator Champion by contrast has a big sword/staff thing that's basically the Staff from the Chaos Lord box set with the top spike removed and replaced with a Sword from the WHFB Chaos Warriors box. It makes for a suitably impressive looking "Power Sword".


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## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

And I have just found another Plog to follow. Yay.


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## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

neferhet said:


> I greet your project, good ser. Altough i say that CSM are a force to be reckoned with: unless you play the serpentspam eldar or the "autopilot" tau lists, you will crush faces. I've played lots of games in 6th, losing only 2-3 games in total and without ever using an heldrake. Fuck the xeno scum, kill them all! GLORY TO SLAANESH!!


My meta doesn't seem to have so many Wavedar (not so sure about these "autopilot" lists of which you speak). That said, it IS infested with Flyers rather than Imperial Knights...which is probably why nobody asides me has one X3



Loli said:


> And I have just found another Plog to follow. Yay.


Yay X3


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## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

And now Today's Results...










After reading some of your feedback (and examining the swords of Chaos Bloodletters), I decided to re-equip the Terminator Squad with Power Axes. Hopefully with a Mark of Tzeench they'll survive long enough to actually swing their Axes...










Ten Chaos Space Marines have been completed. This is out of a giant horde of twenty. I gave them all Close Combat Weapons, Boltguns and Bolt Pistols. I further augmented them with a Mark of Khorne and a Icon of Wrath. This means they'll hit extra hard in combat and be extreamly difficult to stop by conventional weapons - 20 3+ armor save, toughness 4 models is difficult to deal with. A pair of Flamers helps with Overwatch should anyone be foolish enough to counter charge them.










Finally, I'd like to spotlight the Unit Champion, who right now has no name. However, his wargear choices of two Lightning Claws and a Combi Boltgun presented some interesting problems. The solution? Give him a claw from a Possessed and cobble a new weapon out of a Power Fist, a pair of Bolt Pistols and some Green Stuff to give him a mini Gauntlet of Ultramar. Clearly signs of favour from Khorne.


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## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

After taking some time off, I got back to work assembling the remaining ten Marines. However, it's not them I want to share with you all today. Today, I present the madness that is -










*DOUBLE FORGEFIEND*​
Forgefiends by themselves are the most underrated unit in the book, able to throw down either three AP2 Pie Plates of death, or shoot incredible amounts of Strength 8 Dakka into anything that walks.

"But the Autocannons! They be AP4!"

What's that? They're Strength 8? And you still lose Hull Points for Glancing Hits?

"But they can't hit Flyers!"

Oh, yes they can. See, those Autocannons fire four shots a gun. Since the Forgefiend has to shoot the same target with them, this means that you are shooting it with _eight Strength 8 bullets_ (which improve if you switch on the Demonforge), making Skyfire irrelevant. Against a Flyer on average, you get a few Sixes. Two of them means that if the aircraft survives the first salvo, the second Forgefiend gets to have a go.

And I hear they don't do so bad against Imperial Knights either.

Forgefiends also have pretty good defensive ability - a 5+ Invulnerable, the ability to cause fear AND It Will Not Die means that despite it sporting only average armour, it can tank most things and even has a chance to survive being Meltagunned.

In short, Forgefiends are the best Heavy Support for Chaos and must appear in more lists. More Hellturkeys? No my friend, you need more Chaos Ponies.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

I'm with ya brother - I have 2 of these babies myself, and they never cease to cause immense amounts of carnage whenever they hit the table.

That and the change to "Gets hot" on vehicles, which is a nice buff to them. Now when they fail a "Gets Hot" there's only a 50% chance they loose a hullpoint, as opposed to it being guaranteed. 

More ectoplasma shots for everyone! :victory:


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## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

Nice work on the Forgefiends. 

My brother uses them for the exact reasons you mentioned, we have never played competitively so I don't know why more Chaos players don't use them more, so it's really nice to see you having them, 2 of them too


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## Noctum (May 6, 2014)

Finally, I'd like to spotlight the Unit Champion, who right now has no name. However, his wargear choices of two Lightning Claws and a Combi Boltgun presented some interesting problems.


How did you get the pair of lightning claws and a combibolter. As I read it it's swap bolt pistol and ccw for pair of lightning claws then you have nothing left to swap for the combi. If it's legal I might try this


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## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

Noctum said:


> Finally, I'd like to spotlight the Unit Champion, who right now has no name. However, his wargear choices of two Lightning Claws and a Combi Boltgun presented some interesting problems.
> 
> 
> How did you get the pair of lightning claws and a combibolter. As I read it it's swap bolt pistol and ccw for pair of lightning claws then you have nothing left to swap for the combi. If it's legal I might try this


You still have a Boltgun to swap for a ranged weapon. I think the codex you're reading is a few years out of date X3


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## Noctum (May 6, 2014)

Brother Cato said:


> You still have a Boltgun to swap for a ranged weapon. I think the codex you're reading is a few years out of date X3



No, codex is up to update. It's digital and updated a month or two ago. The wargear for the chaos lord doesn't include a boltgun to be swaped


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## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

Noctum said:


> No, codex is up to update. It's digital and updated a month or two ago. The wargear for the chaos lord doesn't include a boltgun to be swaped


*ASPIRING CHAMPION*, not a Chaos Lord. Chaos Lord wears Terminator Armor and is in the second picture with the other five.


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## Noctum (May 6, 2014)

Brother Cato said:


> *ASPIRING CHAMPION*, not a Chaos Lord. Chaos Lord wears Terminator Armor and is in the second picture with the other five.



Apologies, your correct! Shame I can't do it for a lord, might be a bit points heavy for a 1 wound champ for me, but a nice idea for a model conversion anyway- love the idea of a mini talon of Horus


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## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

Noctum said:


> Apologies, your correct! Shame I can't do it for a lord, might be a bit points heavy for a 1 wound champ for me, but a nice idea for a model conversion anyway- love the idea of a mini talon of Horus


I did do a quick check up on that while I was away. The exact wording is that he "may take items", not swap his current Wargear. So yes, if you really wanted to, double Lightning Claw and Combi-Boltgun is still a valid setup for a Chaos Lord/Sorcerer.


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

As far as I know, you can kit him out with the entire armoury of his chosen warband, including their screwdrivers, if you want to spend the points on it. There are no limitations to the amount he can carry.


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## Noctum (May 6, 2014)

Yea I know what your getting at, but the 'swapping' restrictions are written on the wargear page (in the hard copy) not under the chaos lord entry. So the restrictions still apply to the lord. Which sucks that the champ can do it but The Lord can't


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## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

Nordicus said:


> As far as I know, you can kit him out with the entire armoury of his chosen warband, including their screwdrivers, if you want to spend the points on it. There are no limitations to the amount he can carry.


Actually, Noctum is right on this one, the note that it's a swap is before the listing but after the bold subheading. In typical GW lazy ruleswriting fashion, that last entry is rather deceptive. This also leads to the hilarity of an *ASPIRING CHAMPION *being better equipped that a *CHAOS LORD/SORCEROR*.

Rules oversight much?


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## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

That is just silly! Correct, but silly!


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## Noctum (May 6, 2014)

Just seems like an oversight that a Chaos Lord can't take a boltgun at all. the marine Chapter Master can at least swap his bolt pistol for a boltgun for free. But it's still the aspiring champ is the only character loyalist or chaos that can take paired lightning claws and still get a ranged weapon


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## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

NOW, WITH ALL THAT SAID AND DONE...

*...ARE YOU READY TO RAWK/WUB?*​









*NOISE MARINES, BITCHES!​*
SO WHY NOISE MARINES? BECAUSE THE ARMY AS I WAS WRITING IT UP LACKED A LOT OF RANGED PUNCH, AND PEOPLE HAVE LONG CONSIDERED NOISE MARINES TO BE THE WEAKEST CULT SQUAD. THAT AND GW (LIKE THOUSAND SONS) MAKES YOU PAY UP THE ARSE FOR THEM.

THE UNIT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A TEN MAN SQUAD, BUT WITH GW BEING GW, I WAS (ANNOYINGLY) ONE SONIC BLASTER SHORT. COME TO THINK OF IT, WHY DO I EVEN HAVE TO BUY THEIR SIGNATURE EQUIPMENT. IT MAKES AS MUCH SENSE AS THOUSAND SONS PAYING FOR INFERNO BOLTS. YES I KNOW KHORNE BERSERKERS HAVE TO BUY THEIR CHAINAXES, BUT THIS MAKES ABOUT THE SAME AMOUNT OF SENSE.

I ALSO GAVE THEM A CHEAP METHUL BAWKZ TO RIDE AROUND IN. INGAME, ONLY THE HAVOC LAUNCHER HAS BEEN PAID FOR, THE REST WAS JUST TO MAKE IT LOOK FLASHIER. I'LL PROBABLY INVEST A BIT MORE MONEY IN IT WHEN WE PLAY PAST 2000PTS.

THE PLAN FOR THESE GUYS? THEY'RE A REARLINE SUPPORT UNIT. THEY CAN ROLL AROUND IN THE RHINO, POP OUT AND BLAST RAWK MUSIK/DUBSTEP AT ANY TARGETS OF OPPORTUNITY. ALSO, I WONDER IF I CAN SHOOT THE BLASTMASTERS OUT THE TOP OF THE HATCH.

PERSONALLY I AM MORE OF A METAL PERSON, BUT THE IDEA OF DUBSTEP FIRING GUNS IS HILARIOUS BECAUSE DUBSTEP IN ITSELF IS A WEAPON, NOT A MUSIC GENRE.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N-FqHvr7OY[/URL]


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

I DON'T THINK YOUR NOISE MARINES POST WAS LOUD ENOUGH!

IT IS ANNOYING TO HAVE TO BUY SONIC BLASTERS FOR SEVERAL POINTS, ESPECIALLY GIVEN HOW EXPENSIVE NOISE MARINES ALREADY ARE FOR ONLY BEING FEARLESS AND I5 COMPARED TO NORMAL MARINES--6 MORE POINTS PER MODEL FOR JUST THOSE TWO SMALL UPGRADE? YUCK.

BUT I'M GLAD THAT YOU HAVEN'T PAID FOR MOST OF THOSE UPGRADES, AS WHILE YOU'RE SITTING IN A RHINO, THERE'S NOT MUCH USE FOR PAYING EXTRA FOR THOSE SONIC BLASTERS WHILE YOU'RE FIRING BOTH BLASTMASTERS YOU'RE ALLOWED TO TAKE IN A 10-MARINE SQUAD OUT THE TOP OF THE METAL BAWKS. BUT HEY, 2 BLASTMASTERS AND A HAVOC LAUNCHER? WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE?

(I MIGHT HONESTLY PREFER 2 SQUADS OF 5 NOISE MARINES WITH A BLASTMASTER AND ONE SONIC BLASTER APIECE IN A RHINO WITH A HAVOC LAUNCHER: 175 POINTS PER SQUAD FOR SOME GREAT STATIONARY FIREPOWER, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A SLAANESHI LORD TO MAKE THOSE NOISE MARINES AND THEIR RHINOS OBJECTIVE SECURED, BUT... THAT'S JUST MY TASTE PREFERENCE)




Brother Cato said:


> This also leads to the hilarity of an ASPIRING CHAMPION being better equipped that a CHAOS LORD/SORCEROR.


...until you throw the Lord/Sorc onto a bike and gain a twin-linked bolter you can swap out, too...


The Forgefiend with HACs is decent for AA, but when you say "a few hits".. well, on average you're going to get 1.33 hits (8 shots time 1/6 chance to hit). The way to make that a real solid AA choice is to throw on Prescience somehow--allied Tzeentchi daemons, Crimson Slaughter "Balestar" relic on a Sorc... for the rerolls to hit on one of those FFs to really shred fliers.


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## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

mossy toes said:


> i don't think your noise marines post was loud enough!
> 
> It is annoying to have to buy sonic blasters for several points, especially given how expensive noise marines already are for only being fearless and i5 compared to normal marines--6 more points per model for just those two small upgrade? Yuck.
> 
> But i'm glad that you haven't paid for most of those upgrades, as while you're sitting in a rhino, there's not much use for paying extra for those sonic blasters while you're firing both blastmasters you're allowed to take in a 10-marine squad out the top of the metal bawks. But hey, 2 blastmasters and a havoc launcher? What's not to like?


thank you. That was entirely the intention. Also i had some spare points and believe big time in maxing out my squads with as much firepower (and bodies) as i can get for them.



mossy toes said:


> (i might honestly prefer 2 squads of 5 noise marines with a blastmaster and one sonic blaster apiece in a rhino with a havoc launcher: 175 points per squad for some great stationary firepower, especially if you have a slaaneshi lord to make those noise marines and their rhinos objective secured, but... That's just my taste preference)


thank you for the feedback. Sadly unless i'm looking to go another 2k points, this is the only slanneshi unit in the entire army.



mossy toes said:


> ...until you throw the lord/sorc onto a bike and gain a twin-linked bolter you can swap out, too...


this is true. That said the biker champion can do the same thing.



mossy toes said:


> the forgefiend with hacs is decent for aa, but when you say "a few hits".. Well, on average you're going to get 1.33 hits (8 shots time 1/6 chance to hit). The way to make that a real solid aa choice is to throw on prescience somehow--allied tzeentchi daemons, crimson slaughter "balestar" relic on a sorc... For the rerolls to hit on one of those ffs to really shred fliers.


mathhammer is typically unreliable. On average, of those eight i've scored at least three sixes. And i have the worst possible dice luck you can imagine.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Brother Cato said:


> mathhammer is typically unreliable. On average, of those eight i've scored at least three sixes. And i have the worst possible dice luck you can imagine.


Well, obviously an individual's experiences is distinct from what is average to roll, but I've certainly snapped fire with 8 shots and got no hits before, or caused 8 wounds on a Terminator squad and had my opponent roll no 1s (which is the same odds, there), but... here's not the place to have a flare-up in the superstition-vs-probability gamer turf wars, so I'll concede the point, this being your thread and all.

I look forward to seeing when your minis have some paint on them!


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## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

So, some good and bad news. The good news is that I got the last NOISE MARINE and the Warp Talons built.










Yes, Warp Talons. They're in the army because people say Talons are typically terrible. However, the main reason we're taking them (asides people saying they're terrible) is because they work as a nice little distraction unit. Either the enemy ignores the Talons and the Talons get to ruin somebody's day next turn, or he aims his guns at the Talons and wastes valuable shooting that could be better spent on the onrushing Infantry Blobs coming for him. For this purpose, I gave them the Mark of Tzeench over Khorne so they have marginally better odds of surviving enemy shooting.

The bad news is that this is the last unit to be assembled. Now I gotta start painting... :cray:


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## Brother Cato (Jul 26, 2014)

Okay, good and bad news time.

The good news is that we have started painting. I got the Cultists done with a pretty basic job and have worked my way onto the Chaos Marines. We've gone for Word Bearers in case you're wondering.

The bad news is that right now I can't upload the Photograph to show you. See, I'm in the middle of removing my Photobucket account, so only when that's done will I be able to start uploading pictures again. It also means the pictures currently in this thread are going to go bye bye. It's just a good thing then that I still have them X3


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