# A BSB question



## keytag33 (Apr 20, 2008)

I'm thinking about adding a Battle Standard Bearer to my WOC army and I'm wondering if it's worth it, or am I just handing more victory points to my opponet?


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

I always find my BSB extremely useful, the number of times the extra combat resolution and the break test rerolls means he's always worth it for me. Of course, as a Bretonnian player, I have to include a BSB, but I'd always take him anyway.

Keep him in a tough unit near the centre is usually best, and he can throw his weight into the major fights. I usually outfit my Bretonnian BSBs unit with a warbanner and him with the virtue of duty (extra +1 res), and with combined static res, my guys can just roll up anyone they come up against, it's beautiful, just plow them through the enemies centre, and make a mess of him. I don't know how that would work with WoC, but I'm sure a strong unit of warriors would work well, or a decent unit of knights.

Just make sure you have a champion so he doesn't have to accept challenges himself.


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## forestreverie (Sep 10, 2009)

I always include a lord and battle standard with 2 support characters.

Empire: General, Captain with battle standard, 2 Warrior Priests
Vampire Counts: Vampire Lord, Vampire with battle Standard, 2 Vampires
High Elves: Prince, Noble with battle standard, 2 Mages

Also, as maddermax mentioned, its always a good idea to give them magic items/abilities that increase the combat resolution further (in his case the War Banner and Virtue of Duty). 
My Vampire Counts BSB has Walking Death (+1CombatRes), Battle Standard (+1CombatRes) and War Banner (+1 Combat Res).
When leading a large, ranked up unit (+3 Ranks, Banner, Outnumber) , this gives the unit a starting/static resolution of at least 8, not to mention all the wounds he'll cause... and if thats not enough, they get to re-roll break tests if they somehow lose! (well, not in the case of vampire counts, they work slightly differently)

Definately a good choice IMO


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Yes, BSBs are nasty.. but I wouldnt pimp them up too much- having +3 to res on 1 character is nasty but it does just paint a massive bullseye on his face... which I'll be aiming at. With only 2W and on foot you really need to give them all the armour you can to keep them alive (2/3+ save max.. WoC blessed in that area).
I would always put him in a unit with both champion and another character to protect from challenges (BSB cant beat a challenge monkey and if you decline with him you'll be placed in the back rank and lose all bonusses for him).

Im normally a fan of taking army specific magical banners rather then the common warbanner; they tend to give something very useful to the unit


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I think the Bsb really depends on what type of army you use.
Do you really need to reroll ld tests if your army ignores most of them added to that the average chaos warrior has quite high ld anyway and few units can cause enough casualties to lower that by much.
If you take lots of unmarked marauders then a BSB is a must but Chaos warriors and most marked units can pretty much hold their own so a warbanner on any unit that can have it will give the same effect.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

BSB doesnt allow Ld test re-rolls.. just break test re-rolls... that means the marks arent going to reduce the usefulness of the BSB. Even with high Ld tests the BSB still helps if you lost combats by a few points (or just making sure your general's unit doesnt break and get run down when you roll badly, lose by 1 and then roll an 11 or a 12 (yes we've all had that happen at least once)- BSB turns a 1/6 + chance of failing any break test (Ld10-1 mod) into a 1/36 (which if you can combine with stubborn is a great way of holding those high SCR or deathstar enemy units in place while you either flank them or go after the rest of the enemy army (though it works best if the BSB is close to but not in the combat).


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Tim/Steve said:


> Yes, BSBs are nasty.. but I wouldnt pimp them up too much- having +3 to res on 1 character is nasty but it does just paint a massive bullseye on his face... which I'll be aiming at.


On that note, make the Unit carry the banner rather than the BSB, if you can, so you don't load him up too much. 

Army specific banners that add resolution can be pretty expensive (50-100 points normally), so I usually shy away from them, just because of points you lose if he dies. Some armies get cheaper ones (the skaven swarm banner for 20 points? bargain!). The warbanner though can usually fit on most units, and adds a nice bonus at a very reasonable price; I never leave home without one.


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## forestreverie (Sep 10, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> Yes, BSBs are nasty.. but I wouldnt pimp them up too much- having +3 to res on 1 character is nasty but it does just paint a massive bullseye on his face... which I'll be aiming at.


You don't have to tell your opponent what he's got it until he's ready to play his part though...


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

With a BSB it should be pretty obvious- if its not WYSIWYG and you havent declared at the start of the game he doesnt have to let you play it
even if you arent declaring and I cant guess what it is by looking then im likely to bash the BSB carrier anyway (especially with my ogres- even core models are going to kill you quite easily), if nothging else it gets rid of the break test re-roll.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

Tim/Steve said:


> With a BSB it should be pretty obvious- if its not WYSIWYG and you havent declared at the start of the game he doesnt have to let you play it
> even if you arent declaring and I cant guess what it is by looking then im likely to bash the BSB carrier anyway (especially with my ogres- even core models are going to kill you quite easily), if nothging else it gets rid of the break test re-roll.


I think he means your opponent doesn't know that he's carrying an expensive banner, not that he doesn't know that guy's a BSB.  So you can load him up with a hundred points of banner, and hope no-one thinks about him until too late, but it's still a bit risky.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Depends on the army, the banner and just how strict you play WYSIWYG- a lot of banners you can tell what they are from either the general banner or the painting/printing on the banner itself (if you cant tell what the banner is meant to be or if it doesnt look quite as it should I tell the opponent what it it... but then Im nice).


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## forestreverie (Sep 10, 2009)

Sorry, I meant the combat resolution bonuses like Virtue of Duty and Walking Death.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Warriors of Chaos Don't need it. They're too expensive already, and need more killiness.

Only time it's only slightly useful is a Marauder Army - but then again, you should either have Mark of Khorne and Mark of Slaanesh in abundance, and the only MoN/MoT should be covered by an Exalted Champion or Lord in their bubble.


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