# Ben counters books



## mussbello (Nov 17, 2010)

Hi folks, wonder if anyone else feels the same. I have been in and around 40k in one form or the other since the 90s but now its really just about the black library for me. I feel I have a good level of knowledge and feel for the universe though. Following on from that when I first read Ben counters soul drinkers omnibus I found it really hard work at first. Ultimately though I ended up thinking it was right up there with the best black library books. I am currently reading the same authors grey knights series and am feeling exactly the same way - real hard going at first and no place for a new comer but ultimately drenched in the 40k atmosphere and brilliant for a long time fan. Does anyone else share this view ?


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Ben Counter kicks ass.


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## CursedUNTILLDEATH (Apr 25, 2010)

Read the Grey knights series and daemon world. Some of his best work along with soul drinkers. And galaxy in flames for the Horus heresy.

I think Ben counter is very underrated. A lot of people hate on him because of battle for the abyss, but one not-that-great book is no reason to diss him at every turn. Given his writing style is a bit different (his view on chaos is very different (not in a bad way)) I can’t wait for more soul drinkers personally, and I think he needs to do some more daemon books.


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Grey Knights and Soul Drinkers series kick ass. Also, _Hellbreak_, is my favorite BL short story of all time.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Personally I don't like his work at all really. _Battle for the Abyss_ was shite. _Galaxy in Flames_ wasn't much better. _Daemon World_ was very average.

I've never read any of his work and felt it worth the money. No wonder why he's no longer on the HH team.


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## Yllib Enaz (Jul 15, 2010)

Ive read galaxy in flames, battle for the abyss, daemon world,the first soul drinker and grey night novels and quite frankly aside from the galaxy in flames I found the others dreadful or worse.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Ben Counter is very good, his _Grey Knights_ is a fantastic series, granted its not the best but its very solid and has many great moments. _Soul Drinkers_ as well, and _Daemon World_ is one of my all-time favourite BL books.


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

I'm the opposite of the OP. I thought the Grey Knights Omnibus was the shit, but I'm struggling through the Soul Drinkers Omnibus. 

Anyways, he's a good author, but I still prefer Abnett.


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## WinZip (Oct 9, 2010)

I think that Ben Counter is a great author, though it was hard getting into the Grey knights omnibus


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## Worst.Techpriest.Ever (Nov 25, 2010)

I think, compared to others, he's kind of second rate, but he has his moments.

_Galaxy in Flames_ was good, I never for a second thought it didn't have a place in the HH series. That's actually what surprised me about _Battle for the Abyss_, I couldn't really believe they were by the same guy. 

I made the mistake of reading _Eisenhorn_ before I read the Grey Knights omnibus, so that might have jaded my opinion of it, I thought the first two books were real stinkers. I sort of resigned myself to the fact that he wasn't suddenly going to write on par with Abnett, so I had a lot more fun with _Hammer of Daemons_.

_Hellbreak_ was similarly enjoyable, it read like an action movie.


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## Shadow Walker (Jun 10, 2010)

Grey Knights 1st book, Daemon World and Galaxy in Flames were ok read but nothing outstanding. The rest are less worth than paper they were printed on. I am glad that he is out of HH team and I hope James Swallow will join him very soon.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I enjoyed Galaxy in Flames alot, thought it was really well done tbf to him. As i've mentioned in numerous other posts, the bit where Qruze approaches the ship for us to find out it is Garro on the Eisenstein makes for one of my favourite moments in the entire HH series thus far. Only quarrel i have with it is the furthering of the complete fuckup that is Qruzes background. Battle for the Abyss was shite though (Mhotep and Skraal aside) but i haven't read any of his other works to properly judge him. Abnett will always be king though


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

The main reason I felt that _Galaxy in Flames_ was a fairly weak addition to the Heresy series was the terrible portrayal of Horus. 

_Galaxy in Flames_ should have been the novel which cemented Horus' change from glorious protector of mankind to initiator of the rebellion to usurp the Emperor and actually explore the decision and Horus' mindset which tipped the Imperium into a galaxy-wide civil war.

But once again _Counter_ seemed incapable of writing anything other than a simple black and white tale. Where Horus is evil without explanation or character-development. _Galaxy in Flames_ was the novel that should have established Horus as the arch-traitor, but it did little more than portray him as an evil murderer with no justification.

Although that having been said it was still much better than _Battle for the Abyss_.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

I liked the grey knight books a lot, however that was more caused by the grey knights than Ben, I am glad Dembski is picking up the grey knights,
still Ben is better than Swallow


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I really enjoyed Flight of the Eisenstein from Swallow. Again it suffered a bit from the completely one dimensional traitor marines, but i still liked it quite alot


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## MuSigma (Jul 8, 2010)

*Soul Drinkers?*

Does anyone know if the story of the Soul Drinkers is finished or is there more to come.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

MuSigma said:


> Does anyone know if the story of the Soul Drinkers is finished or is there more to come.


The final instalment is being serialised in the new BL e-zine _Hammer and Bolter_.



piemelke said:


> still Ben is better than Swallow


No way! Counter is a terrible writer who is still only writing for BL because he produces bolter porn that sells well despite the quality. Swallow has really improved as a writer, in particular with the last two BA novels. _Flight of the Eisenstein_ is also one of my favourite HH novels.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

To be honest all of BL's authors are pretty poor in the grand scheme of things, I don't think that Ben Counter stands out as being that much worse than any of the others. With Ben's books you get what you expect, lots of action and the heroes will overcome, somehow.
One author that is starting to wear thin for me is Aaron Demski-Bowden (sp?), he seems to have a decent enough grip of the setting but I just can't get on with his writing style, it just drips with smug arrogance and he seems to think it's clever to use swear words when they are completely unnecessary. 
I have no problem with swearing, take a look at the "F-Bombs" thread, but he seems to use it thinking it's clever and a bit naughty, grow up!


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> One author that is starting to wear thin for me is Aaron Demski-Bowden (sp?), he seems to have a decent enough grip of the setting but I just can't get on with his writing style, it just drips with smug arrogance and he seems to think it's clever to use swear words when they are completely unnecessary.
> I have no problem with swearing, take a look at the "F-Bombs" thread, but he seems to use it thinking it's clever and a bit naughty, grow up!


I'm an acquired taste. I don't swear much in my novels, though. If I wrote fiction the way I wrote a blog, that'd be... bizarre.

I'm also occasionally (well, very rarely) a victim of people with different senses of humour either missing the point of it, or assuming I do X for Reason Y. 

That, however, is just life. People will always ascribe guesses to other people's behaviour. It's all good. I think the same about people that like fart humour. I look at them like they're some kind of strange, stunted un-people, and I wonder what makes them tick.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> I'm an acquired taste. I don't swear much in my novels, though. If I wrote fiction the way I wrote a blog, that'd be... bizarre.


If you did then it'd be likely that a male anatidae would be on the Council of Terra.


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## Imperious (May 20, 2009)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> I'm an acquired taste. I don't swear much in my novels, though. If I wrote fiction the way I wrote a blog, that'd be... bizarre.
> 
> I'm also occasionally (well, very rarely) a victim of people with different senses of humour either missing the point of it, or assuming I do X for Reason Y.
> 
> That, however, is just life. People will always ascribe guesses to other people's behaviour. It's all good. I think the same about people that like fart humour. I look at them like they're some kind of strange, stunted un-people, and I wonder what makes them tick.


First things first, Cadian Blood kicked ass! That being said I'm a sucker for zombie action. 

As far as swearing goes, yes it has a time and place. IMO the 40k verse is a fertile breeding ground for swearing due to the miserable environment. 

If you're offended by words and you're a fan of the dystopian world of 40k you are probably one extremely unique individual...

Back on topic... The soul drinkers are my favorite chapter and that's only because of Ben Counter. So props to Ben!


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Imperious said:


> As far as swearing goes, yes it has a time and place. IMO the 40k verse is a fertile breeding ground for swearing due to the miserable environment.
> 
> If you're offended by words and you're a fan of the dystopian world of 40k you are probably one extremely unique individual...


It's not that i'm offended by swearing I just think there is a time and a place for it. I swear all the time, too much for some people but it's more to do with how the language is used and why.
I just feel that in The First Heretic it was out of place and to me at least it came across as a little childish. 
I should also point out that it is impossible to be 'extremely unique' you are either unique or not there is no middle ground, sorry it's just a bugbear of mine.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

normtheunsavoury said:


> It's not that i'm offended by swearing I just think there is a time and a place for it. I swear all the time, too much for some people but it's more to do with how the language is used and why.
> I just feel that in The First Heretic it was out of place and to me at least it came across as a little childish.
> I should also point out that it is impossible to be 'extremely unique' you are either unique or not there is no middle ground, sorry it's just a bugbear of mine.


Different strokes for different folks. F'rex, I think there's practically no swearing in that novel at all (and, well, there really isn't), and statements like this:



normtheunsavoury said:


> To be honest all of BL's authors are pretty poor in the grand scheme of things


...are objectively nonsensical. Even someone like me (who sincerely and vocally dislikes a solid 90% of BL's output) would say that's ridiculous.


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

mussbello said:


> Hi folks, wonder if anyone else feels the same. I have been in and around 40k in one form or the other since the 90s but now its really just about the black library for me. I feel I have a good level of knowledge and feel for the universe though. Following on from that when I first read Ben counters soul drinkers omnibus I found it really hard work at first. Ultimately though I ended up thinking it was right up there with the best black library books. I am currently reading the same authors grey knights series and am feeling exactly the same way - real hard going at first and no place for a new comer but ultimately drenched in the 40k atmosphere and brilliant for a long time fan. Does anyone else share this view ?


I'm reading this right now and I love his style with plenty of action :read:


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

normtheunsavoury said:


> To be honest all of BL's authors are pretty poor in the grand scheme of things


That's a valid point of view I suppose, I disagree vehemently though.
Dan Abnett and Graham McNeill are at least the equal of authors like R.A Salvator or Raymond E. Feist, whilst only 1 BL book makes it into my Top 10 (_Sabbat Martyr_) that's only because they're up against stiff competition not because BL books are terrible, or at least not all of them are.

So personally I think that statement is laod of old bollocks, but hey I don't like some authors other people think are great so obviously everyone has wildly different view points.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Different strokes for different folks. F'rex, I think there's practically no swearing in that novel at all (and, well, there really isn't), and statements like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...are objectively nonsensical. Even someone like me (who sincerely and vocally dislikes a solid 90% of BL's output) would say that's ridiculous.


I'm not saying the books are terrible, I've brought enough of them. I'm saying that compared to the greater literary world the authors who write for BL are nothing special. They write what they write, we buy it, we read it and we move on to the next book. No one from BL is going to win a Booker prize are they?
It's pulp science fantasy, some of us take it far more seriously than others. 

I see it like this, in music you have great bands, OK bands and god awful bands.
In the great category I would put bands like Led Zep, The Beatles, The Stones and Black Sabbath
In the OK category, Linkin Park, Korn, Oasis, Blur and The Prodigy.
In the God awful category, anything connected to Simon Cowell, Louis Walsh or any of the manufactured pop drivel that pollutes the airwaves.

In writing terms I would rank Clive Barker, Isaac Asimov, H.G. Wells, and George Orwell as greats
The OK's would be most of what I've read from Black Library, David Gemmel, David Eddings and R.A. Salvatore.
In the God Awful range is anything to do with Star Trek and J. K. frickin Rowling and her idiotic fascination with ripping off better writers.

So, there you go, BL's authors, in the grand scheme of things are nothing special. Unless of course you would like to rank Mr Abnett right up there with the likes of H.G. Wells?


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## Zhou The Maladjusted (Nov 25, 2010)

I think you guys are taking the whole writer quality thing to far. Fact of the matter is, You like to read what you're interested in. I can't stand most books peolpe call "classics", those extremely well written and "timeless" stories. It's all about you, and how you imagine the story. _Emperor's Mercy _by Henry Zou, was really poorly written in my opinion, BUT, he gave me enough that I could imagine what was going on, and in the end, I enjoyed the book.

*cough*

So yeah, to the topic of the thread.

I think Ben Counter does poorly at first, in the exposition, as he's not the best at creating drama and building up suspense mostly. He's an action writer. (Now, I do like alot of political drama and stuff like that, so don't accuse me of being an action junkie.) _Galaxy in Flames_ was pretty uninteresting until the temple on the moon. As soon as Counter gets to the combat, things pick up real well. That's why, the Grey Knights book on the Dark Adeptus world (I forget the exact title) was so good. It got into the combat quickly, and kept going rather consistently with that.

In my opinion, Ben Counter is a slightly above average writer, who makes beautiful combat scenes.


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## TheAllFather (Nov 12, 2010)

I'm reading through these posts and all I could say through them was 'Wow. Do these people even pay attention?'

I simply could not put the Soul Drinker's Omnibus down. In fact, after reading it, the Soul Drinkers immediately became my favorite chapter. Then when the next books came out, I loved them the same, including their battle with the Necrons.

I love Daemon World not quite as much, but I still loved it.


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## jasonbob (Sep 6, 2010)

This thread iz newb. CS Goto iz teh b3zt.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I liked most of Ben's books. And I understand where CotE is coming from. I also think _Galaxy in Flames_ should have been a book where Horus lost the rest of his purity as the Emperor's chosen. I think that the original plan was to only have the first three and therefore kind of hurried the last of that trilogy. 

_Battle for the Abyss_... is a different matter. I blame the whole team for letting it being released as a whole novel. There was just so much they could hope to achieve with such a plot for the story. I felt Ben Counter struggled basically pulling crap from his ass to make it a long enough novel.

But besides for that book I do really like the Soul Drinker stories, _Hammer of Daemons, and Daemon World_. I also really like Loken's showdown with Abaddon in _Galaxy in Flames_. I thought the ending was pretty sad and made it one of my favorites of the Heresy.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

@ khorne's fist,
I guess it is a matter of taste, for me Swallow gives a very shallow portrait of the blood angels. I have to admit I liked fleight of the E as well,

regarding Aaron, it is not that he will get a Nobel prize any time soon,
that being said I think his way of writing is refreshing, at least in Soul hunter it was in Hellsreach and the first heretic I found this being less the case.
The portrait he gave of the night hunters was very interesting.
Here the legion is in decline, their numbers are reducing and their equipment is deteriorating, also a lot of CM are demon infested and are basicallly controlled by the Demons, much to the dislike of the more pure night hunter,
Also the speech he gives abbadon was very impressive in my point of view, it basically gave the impression that on both sides of the line empirium and chaos humanity is slowly losing the fight, fits right in the 40 K universe,
I agree on the swearing comment.
That being said, Aaron expressed his will to write on the flesh tearers, that would be very koel, grey knight being second and maybe mentors being third (for me at least)

Although Ben is a solid writer he just does not keep my eyes glued to the pages as other writers can, e.g. graham (especially strom of Iron, excellent book), Aaron and Dan

the same goes for James, the thing that helped him in the BA books are the BA themselves as being one of the koeler chapters


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

Battle for the abyss wasn't that bad... I think its underrated, it sure as hell has its moments. But Galaxy in flames is one of the best in the series.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

I generally like BC's books GiFs was my favourite HH book until i read a thousand sons, but then again its one of the best events to write about as its basically one big battle on istavaan.

the GK collected started good but i hated the third one and the second one was a bit meh


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

Barnster said:


> I generally like BC's books GiFs was my favourite HH book until i read a thousand sons, but then again its one of the best events to write about as its basically one big battle on istavaan.
> 
> the GK collected started good but i hated the third one and the second one was a bit meh


Hope I like it its on my christmas list.


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## Pyroriffic (Feb 28, 2010)

Always found, in discussion, that _Battle for the Abyss_ is one of the books that seems to divide opinion more than other. As such, it was the first subject for the 'Good, Bad, Indifferent' review over at the Bolthole. (Thread here).

I think it's one of those really important things to remember that all writing is completely subjective. What person A enjoys in their reading fodder isn't what person B or even C likes.


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