# Could Horus of destroyed the Emperor if he wanted to



## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

*See, I generally disagree with that assumption.

The Emperor was never a compassionate individual, or at least everything we know about him certainly points in the opposite direction. His hesitation (if we can even call it that) was probably more due to his disbelief that he himself had failed, rather than being the result of any sort of compassion that remained for Horus.

The Collected Visions suggests that the Emperor's power could be matched and was not far superior at all to the Warmasters: "...Could Horus have disrupted the teleport beam? Had he become so powerful?" - "...but the walls of the Warmaster's battle-barge were resistant to his mindsight..." - "...Then and only then was he allowed to enter the presence of Horus." - to name but a few examples prior to the actual duel.

The CV account shows that if anything, Horus' downfall was due to his own arrogance rather than the Emperor's hesitation brought about by any such sentiments as love or benevolence. Horus could have destroyed the Emperor during the duel if he so wished, yet instead he desired to pick the Emperor apart piece by piece, toying with him and relishing the moment. Seeing the Emperor crippled and maimed, he even turned his attention away from his father to almost playfully flay a Custodian/Astartes/Guardsmen alive. And when his attention returned to his father, it was too late. The Emperor was able to muster the full force of his psychic might and unleash it (due to Horus' 'lapsed concentration') before Horus had any chance to defend himself, yet of course this was a one-off (the Emperor couldn't have mustered the same level of power again) and left him as good as dead.

So ultimately its not like the Emperor could have simply entered the Vengeful Spirit's bridge and obliterated Horus' very essence in a heartbeat if he so wished. The Emperor destroying Horus was more down to Horus' arrogance and mindset towards their duel and the Emperor's eventual willingness to sacrifice himself to defeat Horus rather than the Emperor being vastly more powerful than (Chaos-empowered) Horus, because he wasn't.

Thats my views on the matter anyway, I dislike the notion that the Emperor was vastly superior to (Chaos-empowered) Horus and could have obliterated him with a click of his fingers. Others may have interpreted it differently though.

As for the original question, No. Sanguinius wouldn't have stood much of a chance whatsoever.
*

- child of the emperor postred this

what do you think

do you agree

i still want to find out why he says a primarch could beat the emperor.. where's his facts..


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

He already cited Collected Visions in his post. That is the source of most _classical_ Heresy lore. If you are unfamiliar with it, I suggest you do what you can to obtain a copy. It will be quite enlightening.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Emperorguard500 said:


> show me proof that horus could of destroyed the emperor easily in the duel
> 
> again its just your view.. but my view is that the emperor was holding back


I said it was my personal view, and I never said the Emperor wasn't holding back - to an extent.

The _CV_'s account of the duel I believe is the most recent account and written by Alan Merrett no less, so im generally taking that at face value (of course via my own interpretation). The duel almost entirely went in Horus' favour. The Emperor suffered grevious and fatal wounds (including a crushed windpipe, severed jugular, severed tendons of the wrist, several broken ribs, melted flesh of the face, a burst eyeball, hair set alight, a broken spine, and had his arm ripped entirely from his socket after regaining consciousness) whilst Horus essentially remained unscathed. Horus was also able to match the Emperor's psychic might, whilst the Emperor was not able to match Horus' psychic onslaught. Horus could have simply decapitated the Emperor or crushed him entirely during their duel, instead he didn't. Instead he relished the moment, and toyed with his father. This is further compounded by the fact that Horus almost playfully flayed the Custodian/Astartes/Guardsmen alive, taking his attention off the Emperor allowing the Emperor to put aside his measure of restraint and muster his full psychic might (which also by the way left the Emperor psychically exhausted and dead for all intents and purposes).

So could Horus have defeated and killed the Emperor (as is the thread title)? Yes, I believe so. Why didn't he? Well it seems to be down to his sense of utter arrogance, that he refused to simply kill the Emperor while he had the chance. Horus after all had the upper-hand and was entirely dominant throughout the entire duel, only when Horus' attention was elsewhere was the Emperor able to muster the strength and power needed to defeat Horus.

And for the record my original point for all of this, is quite simpy just because I feel that the power of Chaos-empowered Horus has been underestimated in certain circles. 



Serpion5 said:


> but I still believe the Emperor to be superior by a fairly wide margin.


You see, I don't  But I guess its impossible to truly measure. Although what we do know is that Horus matched the Emperor's psychic ability throughout the duel, and seemingly could have killed his father. Whilst the Emperor had to rely on Horus' arrogance and delusion in order to muster his full psychic potential required to destroy Horus (which essentially resulted in his self-sacrifice).


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## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

As the all-powerful despoiler has said "Horus was weak. Horus was a fool. He had the whole galaxy within his grasp and he let it slip away" 

I believe Horus could have won if he truly wanted to do it that quickly but I am kinda biased towards Horus


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> You see, I don't  But I guess its impossible to truly measure. Although what we do know is that Horus matched the Emperor's psychic ability throughout the duel, and seemingly could have killed his father. Whilst the Emperor had to rely on Horus' arrogance and delusion in order to muster his full psychic potential required to destroy Horus (which essentially resulted in his self-sacrifice).


But it was Horus imbued with Chaos and essentially it was four of the chaos powers vs the Emperor.


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## Fancyxeno21 (Sep 8, 2010)

My thoughts on this whole battle however are that it seems to be common knowledge that the Emperor was hesitant throughout the entire fight, until Horus flayed the astartes/custodes/guardsman where he then unleashed his full psychic power to obliterate Horus's soul. 

This is where I disagree, because if Horus was NOT able to defeat the Emperor even when the Emperor was hesitant, then there is no chance that he could in really any situation defeat his father. In every situation, Horus would still be arrogant, and nothing would change that. If the Emperor was trying his hardest, completely bombarding Horus with everything he could muster, then I believe Horus would be even more arrogant and if he won that duel, he would still toy around with the Emperor, therefor leaving him vulnerable. 

Just my take on this fight 
Cheers,
FX


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> But it was Horus imbued with Chaos and essentially four of the chaos powers vs the Emperor.


Does that matter?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

:shok: I dont own Collected Visions, at all . After reading all that Horus did to the Big E puts a smile on my face . Take that you Loyaltist Dogs. I get so sick and tired of the whole , Emperor is th best, he wins everytime, no one could beat him at all, blaw blaw blaw.... He was nearly CHOKED TO DEATH by a Ork Warboss. Seriously, it was *ta daa* Horus who saved him. But seriously eye opening.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Does that matter?


Obviously because essentially Horus was nothing more than a proxy, a weakened physical representation of the Chaos powers in the physical realm.

If it was vanilla Horus with a grudge, he would have been easily dealt with like a discarded tissue.


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## Fancyxeno21 (Sep 8, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Obviously because essentially Horus was nothing more than a proxy, a weakened physical representation of the Chaos powers in the physical realm.
> 
> If it was vanilla Horus with a grudge, he would have been easily dealt with like a discarded tissue.


However, there is no possible scenario in which he would not be imbued by all four chaos gods when he fought the Emperor. Hence why it doesn't matter that he was or not.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Well my original argument was that Horus or any Primarch pale in comparison to the Emperor in any regard.

And the fact that the four Chaos powers and their puppet failed to defeat the Emperor just in my opinion adds to the Emperor's prodigal strength.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

> In the warp the Emperor hears the Chaos Powers howl as they feed their pawn more power. The Lord of Humanity stands alone against their massed might and knows that he is losing. Somehow he cannot bring his full force to bear on the Warmaster. Horus shows no such restraint.





> Suddenly the battering stops. Through his good eye the Emperor sees a solitary Terminator has entered the room. The marine charges toward the Warmaster, stormbolter blazing. Horus looks at him and laughs. For a moment he stands triumphant, allowing the marine to see what he has done to his Emperor.
> 
> The Emperor know what is going to happen next, sees the gloating triumph on Horus' face. There is no trace of his friend left there. There is only a daemon driven by insane destructive fury.
> 
> ...





> He gathers every particle of his power, focuses it into a mighty bolt of pure force, more coherent than a laser, more destructive than an exploding sun. He aims it at Horus, a lance of power destined for the madman's heart. Horus senses the upsurge of energy and turns to face the Emperor, a look of horror on his face.
> 
> The Emperor lets fly. It strikes the Warmaster. Horus screams as destruction rains down on him, twisting and writhing in titanic agony. He strives frantically to counter the Emperor's deathblow but his struggles become ever more feeble as the lethal energies play over him.


To me that sounds like he was holding back. When he put the effort behind the kill, Horus did not stand a chance.


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## Fancyxeno21 (Sep 8, 2010)

I completely agree, I believe that the emperor would win in 100% of the scenarios possible. Without the chaos gods behind him I doubt the HH would have happened in the first place.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Obviously because essentially Horus was nothing more than a proxy, a weakened physical representation of the Chaos powers in the physical realm.
> 
> If it was vanilla Horus with a grudge, he would have been easily dealt with like a discarded tissue.


No one is refuting that, obviously its only due to the Chaos-empowerment of Horus that he was able to stand against the Emperor. But that doesn't detract from anything I said whatsoever. 



Doelago said:


> To me that sounds like he was holding back. When he put the effort behind the kill, Horus did not stand a chance.


Im not saying the Emperor wasn't holding back. 

But I suppose in a way you could also argue that Horus was holding back as well (due to his arrogant nature dictating his will to toy with the Emperor rather than kill him as soon as possible). The initial reason for this thread was because someone challenged my view that Horus could have killed the Emperor, which I am still to see a genuine argument against as it stands.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> But I suppose in a way you could also argue that Horus was holding back as well


Allow me to re-quote that one part. 



> Somehow he cannot bring his full force to bear on the Warmaster. *Horus shows no such restraint.*


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Well in my Chaos Dex it it reads as...

The Emperor and Horus waged their war not only in the material universe with powered blade and claw, but on the psychic plane, their bodies and spirits locked in a struggle to the death. Though Horus dealt the emperor grievous wounds, the leader of mankind fought not only for himself, but for the fate of untold billions across the galaxy and he ingnored the agony within his battered body. As the Emperor withstood the Warmasters attacks, *Horus faltered in his physical and psychic assault*. Perhaps some small, repressed shred of his humanity and loyaty betrayed Horus, *preventing him from dealing the fatal blow*.

So back at ya.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Thats the Chaos dex. Every dex says that "We are the awesomz, we lost cause blah, blah, so we were correct and blah, blah, other vise we win blah, blah."

I win. 










Just fuwken with yah.







Totally not.


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

I think the answer to your question is: yes


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

(deep, long breath).................... No.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

*Somehow he cannot bring his full force to bear on the Warmaster. Horus shows no such restraint.*


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## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

Ok so reading more of this thread I still have to think Horus COULD have won, we see that the turning point is when that terminator ran in the room. Now Horus knows that guy is no match he is no real threat, so instead of just finishing off the Emperor right there he flays man alive. 

That was the catalyst that 1 final action that made him lose, in my opinion Emperor was right there about to be defeated it was Horus showing off that gave him the clarity to make him go all out, yes he could have been beaten by Horus on the eve of destruction but he was not


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Cowlicker16 said:


> Ok so reading more of this thread I still have to think Horus COULD have won, we see that the turning point is when that terminator ran in the room. Now Horus knows that guy is no match he is no real threat, so instead of just finishing off the Emperor right there he flays man alive.
> 
> That was the catalyst that 1 final action that made him lose, in my opinion Emperor was right there about to be defeated it was Horus showing off that gave him the clarity to make him go all out, yes he could have been beaten by Horus on the eve of destruction but he was not


i still want someone to show me something that says a primarch can stand toe to toe against the emperor and win?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Well he wasnt a mere Primarch, he was a Primarch swelled with the power of all four gods... duh.

Warmaster played by Charlie Sheen "Winning, duh"


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Doelago said:


> Allow me to re-quote that one part.


He showed no such restraint no, he brought his power to bear on the Emperor without restraint. However that does not refute what I said at all. What I meant was that Horus was still toying with the Emperor (ripping his arm off, picking the Emperor up and breaking his spine across his knee etc) rather than simply turning his full efforts to simply killing the Emperor as soon as possible.

Could Horus have killed the Emperor? Yes. Nothing has convinced me otherwise.



Emperorguard500 said:


> i still want someone to show me something that says a primarch can stand toe to toe against the emperor and win?


Read everything I've posted in this thread. And as _warlock_ said, by the Siege of Terra Horus was much more than a Primarch.


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## Fancyxeno21 (Sep 8, 2010)

Emperorguard500 said:


> i still want someone to show me something that says a primarch can stand toe to toe against the emperor and win?


No single primarch could stand toe to toe against the emperor and win. The Emperor basically has the power of every primarch I think, because each primarch was given part of his traits. 

Then again, Horus is more like an super uber demon prince at the time they fought.


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

surely no restraint would insinuate that you are seeking to end the fight as quickly as possible?? 
I fully agree with you that the arrogant SOB wanted to humiliate him but it just seems bloody stupid to toy with the emperor, like a cat playing with a wounded tiger...yes it's injured but you dont fuck with it (course im saying this as a rational person not a primarch on chaos steroids lol).

I'm still hoping btw that the bloke who gets minced by Horus will turn out to be Little Horus (also convinced it will be him lowering the shields); just my little theory ever since end of Galaxy in Flames.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> He showed no such restraint no, he brought his power to bear on the Emperor without restraint. However that does not refute what I said at all. What I meant was that Horus was still toying with the Emperor (ripping his arm off, picking the Emperor up and breaking his spine across his knee etc) rather than simply turning his full efforts to simply killing the Emperor as soon as possible.
> 
> Could Horus have killed the Emperor? Yes. Nothing has convinced me otherwise.
> 
> ...


and the emperor wasn't going full-force either.. he was also restraining.. so they were both restraining..

Emperor>Primarch


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## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

Ok so if we look at just plain not upgraded Primarch challenging Emperor before Heresy era the only person who might have been able to do anything I would have to say is Magnus...no proof to back it up but from what I understand he was second only to Emperor in pysker status. No idea on the power gap between them but pretty much no, nobody without the power upgrades from chaos could have taken the emperor and win. I thought we were just talking pure Chaos Super Saiyan Horus


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

demonictalkin56 said:


> I'm still hoping btw that the bloke who gets minced by Horus will turn out to be Little Horus (also convinced it will be him lowering the shields); just my little theory ever since end of Galaxy in Flames.


Give this man a contract, that will be perfect. I think it explains to why Horus would drop his guard, the death of Little Horus would wound him on a emotional lvl.



Cowlicker16 said:


> I thought we were just talking pure Chaos Super Saiyan Horus


Chaos Super Saiyan 4 Horus actually. He had all four gods backing him after all :biggrin:.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Emperorguard500 said:


> and the emperor wasn't going full-force either.. he was also restraining.. so they were both restraining..
> 
> Emperor>Primarch


I never said the Emperor wasn't restraining himself, in fact I acknowledged it. But the question you asked was whether or not Horus could have killed the Emperor, the answer which I stand by is _"yes"_.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Indeed. I fully believe that if the Emperor wasn't holding back he could've comfortably beaten Horus. But having said that, like CotE said, he Horus had the Emperor completely at his mercy, and could have and should have killed him when he had the chance. However his overwhelming arrogance, hubris and overconfidence lead to the Emperor finally having time to realise Horus was never coming back and annhilate him.

But Horus could've quite easily killed him at multiple points in the duel.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Indeed. I fully believe that if the Emperor wasn't holding back he could've comfortably beaten Horus. But having said that, like CotE said, he Horus had the Emperor completely at his mercy, and could have and should have killed him when he had the chance. However his overwhelming arrogance, hubris and overconfidence lead to the Emperor finally having time to realise Horus was never coming back and annhilate him.
> 
> But Horus could've quite easily killed him at multiple points in the duel.


:goodpost:


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## Maligant (Mar 27, 2011)

The fact the Emperor needs the Golden Throne to survive, and the fcat that the current BRB says that the Golden Throne is failing and with it the means to keep the Emperor alive, says to me that if Rogal Dorn hadn't found him in time then the Emperor would have died of his wounds.

Could Horus Lupercal, or any other pre-heresy Primarch defeat the Emperor? Probably not.

Could Horus the Traitor kill the Emperor? For all intents and purposes, he did.


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## xNoPityx (Dec 23, 2010)

I think we need to look at the word could in regards to this fight. People say the emperor "could" have killed horus, could he really? Like mothers lifting cars to save their children, there are documented cases of it happening so women can lift cars but without the proper incentive it is impossible. The emperor was physically capable of killing horus but he would not have had the mental fortitude to do it without horus proving how far gone he was by killing the terminator.


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Does that matter?


Actually, it does. It basically says that Horus was able to beat the Emperor only because the 4 Chaos Deities super charged him to the point that it was no longer 1 vs. 1, but 5 vs. 1. Yes, the Emperor was a supremely powerful "1", but when you stack the decks like that, it can only go one way (under normal circumstances). It's like playing the 40k game in which you know exactly what army your opponent is going to bring & the exact build. As a result, you build your own army with the specific goal to be able to counter everything they've got, yet they don't know what you're bringing to the table.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I never said the Emperor wasn't restraining himself, in fact I acknowledged it. But the question you asked was whether or not Horus could have killed the Emperor, the answer which I stand by is _"yes"_.


But, surely the counter point to that is that ANYONE could have killed the emperor IF he let them.

Could Horus have killed the emperor if he wasnt holding back - for my money the answer is no.


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Maidel said:


> But, surely the counter point to that is that ANYONE could have killed the emperor IF he let them.
> 
> Could Horus have killed the emperor if he wasnt holding back - for my money the answer is no.


True. Even then I don't believe Horus spent the whole battle toying with the Emperor at all though. Taking the CV recording of the battle after the initial psychic sparring the Emperor and Horus are fully engaged, albeit halfheartedly in the Emperor's case, and although Horus doesn't succeed in actually killing the Emperor I have no doubt that he was trying very hard to do so. The severed jugular reads to me like an attempted beheading, the flayed head and broken back too are attempts by Horus to finish the battle as quickly as possible. It's not arrogance or hubris that makes Horus take so long to kill the Emperor it's just that the Emperor is really hard to kill.

Yes there was a slight distraction in the entrance of the custodian but it's important to remember that that exchange took place in mere heartbeats. The passage claims that "suddenly the battering stopped.....without hesitation the loyal custodian charged.... for a moment he stood triumphant.... it was over in moments" (apologies for not fully quoting the paragraph; I have no excuse other than I couldn't be bothered).

The only evidence we have of Horus not trying as hard as he should be to kill the Emperor once the fight started is the "maniac laughter" and the "ALMOST playfully" reference both of which are hardly conclusive.

Could Horus have killed the Emperor? Maybe, hell probably, if the custode hadn't shown up but not by trying harder.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Diatribe1974 said:


> Actually, it does. It basically says that Horus was able to beat the Emperor only because the 4 Chaos Deities super charged him to the point that it was no longer 1 vs. 1, but 5 vs. 1. Yes, the Emperor was a supremely powerful "1", but when you stack the decks like that, it can only go one way (under normal circumstances). It's like playing the 40k game in which you know exactly what army your opponent is going to bring & the exact build. As a result, you build your own army with the specific goal to be able to counter everything they've got, yet they don't know what you're bringing to the table.


It is still irrelevant though. The original question was about whether or not Horus could have killed the Emperor in the context of their duel during the Siege of Terra - of course being when Horus was juiced up on Chaos power. It doesn't matter if it was fair or not, its what happened.



Maidel said:


> But, surely the counter point to that is that ANYONE could have killed the emperor IF he let them.
> 
> Could Horus have killed the emperor if he wasnt holding back - for my money the answer is no.


Well yeah, the Emperor could have let himself be killed, but its not like he boarded the _Vengeful Spirit_ with the intention of dying. He boarded with the intention of killing (or saving) Horus. But yeah I see your point, again though I would argue its kind of neither here nor there considering the Emperor *was* actually holding back, Horus could have taken the opportunity prior to the Custodian/Guardsmen/Astartes entering, and could have killed the Emperor (especially considering the sheer amount of fatal and grevious wounds the Emperor suffered prior to the loyal soldier entering the bridge), thats my take on it anyway.


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## crowhaven (Apr 3, 2011)

herasy... simply herasy:threaten:


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Well yeah, the Emperor could have let himself be killed, but its not like he boarded the _Vengeful Spirit_ with the intention of dying. He boarded with the intention of killing (or saving) Horus. But yeah I see your point, again though I would argue its kind of neither here nor there considering the Emperor *was* actually holding back, Horus could have taken the opportunity prior to the Custodian/Guardsmen/Astartes entering, and could have killed the Emperor (especially considering the sheer amount of fatal and grevious wounds the Emperor suffered prior to the loyal soldier entering the bridge), thats my take on it anyway.


There is another thread with 'could sanguinous have killed the emperor' - and exactly the same thing could be said there. Because sanginous was the emperors 'son' he would have equally held back and almost let sanginous beat him.

So yes, ANY of the primarches could have killed the emperor because he would have most likely held back against any of them because he loved them. For me thats not the question. What the op is asking is that did horus 'hold back' because he was gloating and being arogant and wanting to draw it out, which left him open to the emperor.

The answer is quite the opposite. Horus was actively trying to kill the emperor. The emperor was not actively trying to kill him. Horus only 'held back' when he thought the emperor was already beaten. The thing is, the emperor when utterly broken and dying was able to kill horus, had he of being doing this from the outset, horus would not have stood a chance.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Maidel said:


> So yes, ANY of the primarches could have killed the emperor because he would have most likely held back against any of them because he loved them. For me thats not the question. What the op is asking is that did horus 'hold back' because he was gloating and being arogant and wanting to draw it out, which left him open to the emperor.


Well out of the context this thread came out of, and everything _emperorguard500_ has said in this thread:


Emperorguard500 said:


> i still want to find out why he says a primarch could beat the emperor.. where's his facts..





Emperorguard500 said:


> i still want someone to show me something that says a primarch can stand toe to toe against the emperor and win?





Emperorguard500 said:


> Emperor>Primarch


He can't seem to grasp that my argument isn't that the Primarchs were superior to the Emperor, but simply that Horus (empowered by Chaos and during their duel) could have killed the Emperor, thats pretty much all I said. I am not doubting that the Emperor was holding back, nor his power at all. I am merely saying that Horus could have killed the Emperor, and arguably actually did for all intents and purposes.



Maidel said:


> The answer is quite the opposite. Horus was actively trying to kill the emperor. The emperor was not actively trying to kill him. Horus only 'held back' when he thought the emperor was already beaten.


Which in itself shows an element of arrogance does it not? The _CV_ account of the duel at least leads me to believe that Horus could have killed the Emperor (as others have said during this thread), mostly due to the fact that the Emperor was holding back. But still Horus did not take his opportunity, believing himself utterly triumphant.



Maidel said:


> The thing is, the emperor when utterly broken and dying was able to kill horus, had he of being doing this from the outset, horus would not have stood a chance.


Im not doubting the power of the Emperor at all.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Which in itself shows an element of arrogance does it not? The _CV_ account of the duel at least leads me to believe that Horus could have killed the Emperor (as others have said during this thread), mostly due to the fact that the Emperor was holding back. But still Horus did not take his opportunity, believing himself utterly triumphant.
> 
> Im not doubting the power of the Emperor at all.


 
In which case we appear to be arguing for the same side. :grin:


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## MuSigma (Jul 8, 2010)

Maidel said:


> There is another thread with 'could sanguinous have killed the emperor' - and exactly the same thing could be said there. Because sanginous was the emperors 'son' he would have equally held back and almost let sanginous beat him.
> 
> So yes, ANY of the primarches could have killed the emperor because he would have most likely held back against any of them because he loved them. For me thats not the question. What the op is asking is that did horus 'hold back' because he was gloating and being arogant and wanting to draw it out, which left him open to the emperor.
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Maidel said:


> In which case we appear to be arguing for the same side. :grin:


So it would seem. :grin:

@_MuSigma_: This thread may interest you in that regard.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

MuSigma said:


> Primarch of the 2nd Legion = expunged and destroyed,
> Primarch of the 11th Legion = same


No, we dont know that - we just know that the imperium covered it up - we have no idea what happened to them - they might have wiped each other out, gotten a horrible plague, been lost in space - anything - the emperor didnt destroy them (or, at least its only 1 of the infinate possiblities)



> Primarch of the 17th Legion = Banned from religion on pain of death
> Primarch of the 15th Legion = Banned from magic on pain of death


Both of which were done for their own good, as far as the emperor was concerned.



> Primarch of the 8th Legion = Sanctioned for Assasination,


After the massive betrayal of the drop site massacre, it wasnt exactly out of the blue.



> Primarch of the 12th Legion = Sanctioned and Ordered arrested.
> Primarch of the 16th Legion = Sanctioned for Assasination,


I cant find evidence for either of those, but it might be crammed somewhere in a HH novel. Either way, both were after the dropsite massacre when the emperor had been fully betrayed. Also, sending assassins is very different to killing someone face to face, thats much harder.


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## NiceGuyEddy (Mar 6, 2010)

Maidel said:


> I cant find evidence for either of those, but it might be crammed somewhere in a HH novel. Either way, both were after the dropsite massacre when the emperor had been fully betrayed. Also, sending assassins is very different to killing someone face to face, thats much harder.


Angron for enhancing his troops and turning them into savages, I think Horus was sent to reign him in but by this point Horus was already collecting allies for the heresy.

In terms of Horus MuSigma you're theory falls down if anything the emperor was too nice to Horus throughout the Heresy and the build up.


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