# Monoliths are Scary



## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I've been reading here for a while now, and it turned up that lots of players (and thanks to them and DoW, me too) are scared of the Monolith. Since I'm not a Necron player (yet  I feel like painting them, they're badass, but I want to get my Thousand Sons done first), I would like to ask you guys: what am I supposed to do with Monoliths? 

I know that I'm asking my opponent how can I win against him, but lets imagine that I said that Monoliths are overpowered (honestly: I'm a noob, I've no idea, so I keep my mouth shut), and you're angry and want to tell me everything that involves the destruction of your Monolith.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Monoliths are teh hardest things to destroy in the whole game- some armies cannot actually destroy them at all... they make your warriors more durable (with an extra WBB roll if you teleport them) and have some nasty weapons on them too...

The problems with monoliths is that if you take a lot of them you dont have the pts to have many warriors; meaning it is easy to kill 75% of models with the 'necron' special rule and force your army to phase out... basically you want a balance between monoliths and numbers of models on the table.

As for their use; Castling is a good plan, keep the monoliths between your men and the enemy then then use the portals and normal movement to surround and destroy part of the enemies army while blocking LOF with the monoliths of the other half of the enemy... sounds easy in theory but getting it right is actually very difficult


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Hope you have railguns or other str 10 stuff to kill them with. Str 9 if you're desperate. Otherwise ignore them and go for the phase out.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Shooting

S10 AP1- fantastic... that 'lith is toast
S10- good, you shouldn't have too much trouble
S9 AP1- quite good
S9- if you have nothing better to shoot at
S8 AP1- if your in desperate need

S8 AP2 or worse- forget it... you'll never do anything of importance.

Combat- any S9 or S10 MC or person will have a great time if they have enough attacks. S8 just isnt enough


Its almost always better to ignore the monlith unless you have no better targets... ot just get very lucky- I've killed my friends monolith 4 times in 4 games and been lucky everytime:
1st- 2nd vindicator shot (when it was vital it died that turn... I did have a dread about to charge though)
2nd- 4th lascannon shot (it was a joke army of mine.. no other reasons I would field lascannons)... it should take an average of 27 shots
3rd- Venerable dreadnaught assault... ok not so lucky but still unlikely to kill it first round
4th- (last but not least) first shot of the game with my zoanthrope, I think we both laughed for about 5 mins... thats a 20-1 shot and I'm legendary for never hitting anything with my warp blasts (this lucks gotta even out somewhere)


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

So if I roll CSM, then my response should be one/a variation of these: Obliterators, Vindicators, Predator all geared with lascannons, perhaps Dreadnoughts (though ours are not as stable as the SM's) Termies with lascannons... would meltas work? 'cause some Chosen might be able to get close enough with their Infiltration to land some shots... just asking, I'm not being serious here, I'd go for Oblits and Vindies.


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## teh1337llama (May 16, 2009)

'Liths have a special rules so melta and lances don't work, that's why it's so hard to kill them. I've never tried taking one out with demolisher cannons and lascannons, cant help you there. I've always killed off their troops or smushed it with my wraithguard :grin: IMO, its better to go after the troops if you dont have something like wratihcannons. Maybe some deepstriking termies, while you shuttle stuff around it in rhinos?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I like to work out the averages of roughly how many shots I need at a target to get rid of it (for marines)

Meltas need about 54 shots
Lascannons need 27
Vindi is something like 9 shots
Dreads in combat need about 18A (assuming monolith moves) or 9A if its immobalised.

I think you can see that 54 melta shots are probably better off fired at warriors rather then the lith... as are most of the other things. Mostly, the monolith is so hardy that its better to save fire for the softer parts of an enemy army unless you have no other targets or really need it gone.


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## Widowmaker666 (Jul 30, 2008)

if you are running CSM your answer to the monolith is a chainfist. Meltas don t work on it because of the living metal rule. I am infinately irritated by monoliths and necrons in general because i run guard and crons are the antithesis to armour. if you charge the lith with termies with chainfists you should be able to put it down that turn.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

So my choices are narrowed down to Vindies, Oblits/Termies/Preds with lascannon and Dreads, with Vindies being the most preferable and Dreads the least. 
Wow...

Thanks for the info guys, its very much appriciated! 

EDIT: so chainfists work too? Okay, I'll keep that in mind too. Thanks!


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Actually Im pretty sure that they dont... you dont get any bonus dice for any reason: no dice for MC's, chainfist, meltas, rending or any other reason

EDIT- I've read the rule again, chainfists are specifically mentioned as not getting theri extra dice. The only way to roll more then 1 dice vs the monolith is ordnance's pick the highest of 2D6 roll...


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## SuperNovice (Mar 20, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> Actually Im pretty sure that they dont... you dont get any bonus dice for any reason: no dice for MC's, chainfist, meltas, rending or any other reason
> 
> EDIT- I've read the rule again, chainfists are specifically mentioned as not getting theri extra dice. The only way to roll more then 1 dice vs the monolith is ordnance's pick the highest of 2D6 roll...


I believe this extends to anything that adds a bonus to the armor penetration roll, such as tank-hunter, multiple Talos hits, etc.


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## Constatine_Valdor (Feb 15, 2009)

Tim/Steve said:


> Shooting
> 
> S10 AP1- fantastic... that 'lith is toast
> S10- good, you shouldn't have too much trouble
> ...



I'm totally agree with this.

When i face necrons, i prefer destroying their troops, (in close combat is much easier) with chaos it's really easy. Almost all units in the army can wipe out them in this way.

The best solution i find is a defiler with extra close combat weapons if it gets close enough. :grin::grin:


What i don't know now is that the monstrous creatures can throw 2 dices or not. That will give a lot of points for using a Great Daemon or a Daemon Prince.


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## El Mariachi (Jun 22, 2008)

Definitely easier to go for the phase out if they've spent most of their points on Monoliths. Having said that with the right weaponary they can still die in a single shot although I'd always try to get dreadnoughts/monstrous creatues into combat with it where it doesn't stand too much of a chance.


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## Slayer23942 (May 6, 2009)

Just shoot the crap out of it...eventually you will penetrate it...thats about it


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## AntiPaladin (Jun 26, 2007)

The living metal rule says that the armor value is never modified by the lance rule and you never roll an extra die for penetration. Tank hunter, hits from a Talos, etc, all work as normal because they don't fit either of those two conditions.

OP as CSM your best, and really only, choices are Vindicators, tank-hunting Havoks w/ lascannons, or hth using a dread or character w/ p. fist.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

The ultimate anti-monolith weapon you say?
Why, that would most certainly have to be the MANTICORE.
D3 Str 10 Ordinance shots a turn.

Best you're gonna get from a single unit, doubtless (well ok, a squad of Russes would be better, but much more expensive).

Anyway, for Marines / Chaos, Vindicator (ie: the GOD engine) is your best bet, and not only that, the thing kicks ass against everything!
Assuming you hit it full on (more likely than not), you'll get a penetrating hit 54% of the time, and a glance about 30% of the time.
Now, don't you think that's kickass?

Too bad you can't give it tank hunters '-_-

But yeah, a dreadnought in melee should take it down pretty easy, all you gotta do is nick the engines and then the dread pounds it to a pulp.


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## Vedrial (Mar 31, 2009)

Actually, the best anti-monolith is Darnath Lysander, but we can't all be Space Marines now can we :biggrin:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Games Workshop seems to think so.

Single best weapon that you have for destroying a Monolith is a Vindicator, for CSM. Or Marines, for that matter, as you're not trudging for three or so turns to get to it. A competent player won't let Lysander get near it.

Myself... I go for the 3 Vindicators route. Then Again, 3 Vindicators = one hell of a lot of dead Necrons. Might be easier to go for them with S10 AP2 Blasts.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Yeah Lysander is nasty. TBH I have no idea how crons would attempt to kill Lysander and a unit of termies marching towords them- only AP1-2 weapons they have are heavy destroyers and the centre of the monolith's particle whip and they just cant pump out enough shots to really hope to kill the squad from failed armour saves. 
- any monoliths that get in the way are pretty much toast since lysander hits as a S10 AP1 with 4A on the charge.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I think I'll go for the Dreads. I love those guys, and they're surprisingly cheap. I mean, you can gear them for CC-madness (2DCCW, 1 TL Bolter, 1 Heavy Flamer) for 110-ish points, and thats awesome when you're rolling CC-hating TS. Just add a LR with Termies with IoT, rush in, DS 2 Dreads, and there goes pretty much everything your opponent has. Or would this be dumb against a Monolith? Is it possible that it might rip my LR to shreds before it could get close enough?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Khorothis said:


> I think I'll go for the Dreads. I love those guys, and they're surprisingly cheap. I mean, you can gear them for CC-madness (2DCCW, 1 TL Bolter, 1 Heavy Flamer) for 110-ish points, and thats awesome when you're rolling CC-hating TS. Just add a LR with Termies with IoT, rush in, DS 2 Dreads, and there goes pretty much everything your opponent has. Or would this be dumb against a Monolith? Is it possible that it might rip my LR to shreds before it could get close enough?


We were talking about chaos marines, but yeah, that'd work.
They don't really have much to kill a land raider (Strongest ranged weapon is S9), the particle whip does alright, and massed Gauss fire works well (glances out your arse).

But yeah, for plain marines, Lysander or an Ironclad Dreadnought.
'Nuff said.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Yeah, to take down a 'lith, you need high strength weapons. S10 is enuff, nothing less will really do to get it down easily.
As a SoB player, I generally ignore the monolith, because I got nothing over S8 in my army.


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Railgun enough said


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Warning to people planning to use Dreads as the anti-Monolith weapon of choice: watch out for Lords with Warscythes and C'tan.

In games vs SM and similar I always include one or both of these. Lords and C'tan often both have inv. saves and higher I than Dreads, and Destroyer Lords have T6 which makes them immune to ID from double S hits as well. 
As these are the only HQ options in the Necron army you are going to face at least 1 model that can slice and dice any Dread, and they are often close to the Monoliths.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

darklove said:


> Warning to people planning to use Dreads as the anti-Monolith weapon of choice: watch out for Lords with Warscythes and C'tan.
> 
> In games vs SM and similar I always include one or both of these. Lords and C'tan often both have inv. saves and higher I than Dreads, and Destroyer Lords have T6 which makes them immune to ID from double S hits as well.
> As these are the only HQ options in the Necron army you are going to face at least 1 model that can slice and dice any Dread, and they are often close to the Monoliths.


; _ ; Perhaps if I have a squad of CC-geared Termies with 2 Dreads, the Termies can take care of/delay the Necron Lord 'till the Dreads destroy the Monolith?


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

Devestator Squads with as many lascannons as possible seems like a winning strategy. Or if you're Inquisition/Spacemarines, drop some orbital strikes on it.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Inquisitor Varrius said:


> Devestator Squads with as many lascannons as possible seems like a winning strategy. Or if you're Inquisition/Spacemarines, drop some orbital strikes on it.


I'll keep that in mind, but I'm after CSM ideas, since I want to know how to save my hide in case I face such a beautiful piece of murderous architecture.


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

Alrighty, bikers with powerfist, meltas, and meltabombs are good for fast tank-killing. You could get a soul-grinder (expensive) or Havocs with lascannons (can avoid assaults and shot like heck.) Obliterators, Bloodthirsters... basically grab a high-strength model with a few attacks/shots. Monoliths are a pain, but they do need to be killed. I'd use the bikers as they're cheaper (relatively) and can dish out some serious pain in one assault turn. Also, their charge range is obscenely huge.


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## Casual_T (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually, DCCWs do not work against the monolith, the "living metal" special rule makes a point that all attacks are at the unaugmented strength of the attacker. Therefore, since the DCCW modifies the strength of the Dreadnought, it is nullified with the "living metal" rule and the dreadnought uses its normal strength, same goes for powerfists and thunder hammers.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Well it would, except that the Necron FAQ says that powerfists still double their strength vs Monoliths... not really met anyone who knows what the 'unaugmented stregth' thing is meant to refer to since PF are the most obvious strength augment around



> Q. Does a model with a powerfist/claw that
> attacks a Monolith get to double its Strength for
> armour penetration rolls?
> A. Yes, powerfists/claws, thunder hammers, and
> ...


http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA.../m1180146_Necrons_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

That's strange...

Even so, unless those bikers have Furious charge, they won't do much to the Mono.
I mean, S8, they glance on 6, so what?

With CSM, dreadnoughts / defilers in melee, Vindicators, and Havocs with Lascannon (if you don't have anything better).


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Khorothis said:


> ; _ ; Perhaps if I have a squad of CC-geared Termies with 2 Dreads, the Termies can take care of/delay the Necron Lord 'till the Dreads destroy the Monolith?


Might work with a Lord, if the Termies live long enough, but it won't work with the Deceiver (the most likely C'tan you will face). The Deceiver can not be assaulted if it does not want to be, and you can't lock it combat if it does not want to be. In the assault phase of the enemy player's turn the Deceiver can choose to leave combat before any blows are struck. It happens automatically and the enemy only get to consolidate.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

darklove said:


> Might work with a Lord, if the Termies live long enough, but it won't work with the Deceiver (the most likely C'tan you will face). The Deceiver can not be assaulted if it does not want to be, and you can't lock it combat if it does not want to be. In the assault phase of the enemy player's turn the Deceiver can choose to leave combat before any blows are struck. It happens automatically and the enemy only get to consolidate.


What the hell? How do you kill that bastard? Keep telling him that life is beautiful?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

As always with necrons you dont. Never ever try to kill their hard stuff.. you cant, its hard.

Just kill the weak little warriors that are all over and you win- if someone has the deceiver and monoliths then they wont have many warriors on the field (not if your playing 1.5k). 

If someone has taken 2 monoliths and a c'tan in 1500pts then they can have only 40 warriors at max... and they wont have a res orb or a lord. Killing 30 with power weapons, rending, S8 weaponry or others that allow WBB isnt going to be too hard (take 3 vindicators and you could probably manage it in 2 turns).

If you see a ctan and monoliths in any list of 2k or under then the necron list is going to be incredibly fragile with very little firepower- very little room for destroyers/immortals and can have 1 res orb at most.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Tim/Steve said:


> As always with necrons you dont. Never ever try to kill their hard stuff.. you cant, its hard.
> 
> Just kill the weak little warriors that are all over and you win- if someone has the deceiver and monoliths then they wont have many warriors on the field (not if your playing 1.5k).
> 
> ...


You are mostly right, but also very wrong. Even in compettative games vs CSM Beserker lists, CSM Noise Marines or DA with Plasma weapons sticking out of every hole I never need more than 30 Warriors, and I don't Phase Out.

Lets get to the point, if there are 2 Monoliths then you MUST deal with them because you pretty much won't be able to attack anything else in the army. Why? Because Monoliths are huge and TLoS means you can't see anything behind them = you can't get to the soft targets without going through AV14 'Living Metal' first.
In 1,750pt games in tourneys I have taken 2 Monoliths + C'tan and at worst given away only 2 kill points, and often don't lose any units. 
At 1,500pts I take 1 Monolith and Deceiver, plus bucket loads of Destroyers. It is totally killer.
You don't need lets of Necrons to prevent Phase Out, because the alternative units protect your existing units so much better. No Monoliths means you must take lots of Warriors because they will be dieing faster, while taking Monoliths protects Warriors and lets you make re-rolls on WBB which is what people struggle with in any case. (Also note that rending only prevents WBB is in CC, not from shooting).

Short summary: don't assume that winning by Phase Out is an easy option when faced with Monoliths, because it isn't. Only a crap player will offer up his Warriors for attacks that negate WBB, and crap players are always easy to beat regardless of their list and should not form the basis of your strategic planning. I.e. don't plan for a game assuming your opponent is a plank, because your strategy will be bunk.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

So if I know that I'm going to play against a Necron player, 3 Vindies are a must have, right? Plus 3 Terminator squads armed to the teeth with Lascannons. And even so, I have to pray to the Dice Gods that I won't get raped. What a joke. I can't field anything nearly as scary as a Monolith.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Twin-linked Las-Cannons work, if you have several. I thinkyou find these on Land Raiders and maybe Dreads?

Generally don't bother with too much armour vs Necrons, everything in the army can hurt Vehicles. A few heavy weapon teams should be enough, and don't invest too many points in Vindis because you are going to give away a lot of easy kill points.

Keep a cool head and pick your targets as they appear.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

LMAO- Necrons only have 1 decent weapon- the particle whip. If they use the portal for more WBB rolls they have no decent weapons. 30 warriors or 5 destroyers shooting at me kills what, 7 MEQ for the warriors and 3 MEQ for the destoryers... my basic guys are 14pts each and they are what my army relies on.

Drop pods, rhinos and LS (especially a SW LS:storm) are all manouverable enough to get round TLOS issues- if I get close and casue enough casualities first turn to force crons to use the monolith portal they'll never recover. Gauss firepower just isnt scaryand the CC power of nothing in the cron dex scares me- even the Ctan shoulf lose to my basic guys (ok the nightbringer would scare me...).
Only tactic that crons can use to avoid phase out that would bother me is to reserve their warriors... and that would just mean what they do have on the field is even more outgunned then before.
- I am what a cron has nightmares about: a fast CC base MEQ force with cheap soldiers, good supporting fire and lots of powerfists.




darklove said:


> Twin-linked Las-Cannons work, if you have several. I thinkyou find these on Land Raiders and maybe Dreads?
> 
> Generally don't bother with too much armour vs Necrons, everything in the army can hurt Vehicles. A few heavy weapon teams should be enough, and don't invest too many points in Vindis because you are going to give away a lot of easy kill points.
> 
> Keep a cool head and pick your targets as they appear.



I go the other way- you can glance my vexs easily enough but it takes a lot to make them useless. Just shove in enough cheap vexs (advancing dreads and vindis are perfect) and the cron player is simply swamped with targets... destroy units and force them to WBB into larger and larger groups and the problem only gets worse.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

How 'bout this: lots of CSM with plasmaguns, 3 Termies with TL Lascannons (Chaos Dreads aren't too good at shooting) and 3 Vindies? I'll put a Lord in one of the CSM squads so I'll have an alibi HQ.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Khorothis said:


> How 'bout this: lots of CSM with plasmaguns, 3 Termies with TL Lascannons (Chaos Dreads aren't too good at shooting) and 3 Vindies? I'll put a Lord in one of the CSM squads so I'll have an alibi HQ.


Terminators can't take lascannon man.
And really, chaos space marines are a lot more happy against Necrons than normal marines, they get the defiler.
It gets a battle cannon, long enough range to stay out of theirs, and it's also possessed by default, ignoring a 1-4 on the glancing table.

Fortunately for CSM again, their terminators get power weapons instead of fists.
So um, they totally destroy Necrons in combat, with very little risk to themselves.
You're also much better off with regular marines, even if their shooting isn't better, they get better melee.

Daemon weapons would root them too.
If you got a lord in terminator armour with a Slaaneshi Daemon weapon, that'd be sweet.
Just about the only thing in their army that can actually hurt the guy in melee will be insta-gibbed from a single wounding hit. That is, Lords.
C'tan are unfortunately immune to a Blissgiver-armed lord.

Pariahs are also good in melee (ie: power weapons, a rare commodity for Crons), but I don't think people take them often.
They're also feeble to shooting because they don't get WBB.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

So you're saying that I should go for the good old LR-CC Termie combo, but Defilers instead of Dreads? Somewhere I saw a World Eater list that had 3 Land Raiders. Guess what I have in mind. *evil laughter*


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Khorothis said:


> So you're saying that I should go for the good old LR-CC Termie combo, but Defilers instead of Dreads? Somewhere I saw a World Eater list that had 3 Land Raiders. Guess what I have in mind. *evil laughter*


I would suggest defilers over dreads ANY day.
Dreads are unreliable, and potentially dangerous.
But um, defilers have BATTLE CANNON.

Ultimately, that's what you want against crons, mass-slaughter.
Three land-raiders is also a bit iffy, because you're putting so many points into one vehicle, and they do have the potential to kill it with infantry (if it's doing what you want it to do, deliver CC troops).
One with terminators, a Vindicator to try their 'Liths, and a defiler to blow infantry away would be shmick.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I came up with the 3 LRs because of the potential OMGWTF effect it might have on the opponent. I remember seeing that list, with 3 LRs filled with Berzerkers... everyone was like "OMG O_O", myself included. Now 3 LRs filled with Termies with chainfists, backed by 3 Defilers... so cruel...  (forget the points, admit it, its AWESOME)

EDIT: the only thing that would be even meaner is that if I could field Rubric Termies, with 3+ Inv Save.... oh boy, that would be sweet...


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Max out on defilers and vindicators. Either will blast necrons into bits and both have the potential to shread the monoliths- defilers are better then vindis (use fleet to charge and then lots of S10 attacks are going to be nasty)- both will cause crons problems but the defiler is the worst since it doesnt care much about glancing.

Standard LRs arent that good, choas are worse and using them against crons is worse still. They just dont have the firepower to warrant their inclusion.. unless you have some specific unit that needs a transport dont take them.

Chaos termies will do well if they get into combat with crons. power weapons and/or lightning claws are great.


EDIT- dont forget that chainfists dont get their bonus vs crons. Termies cannot kill monoliths.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Khorothis said:


> I came up with the 3 LRs because of the potential OMGWTF effect it might have on the opponent. I remember seeing that list, with 3 LRs filled with Berzerkers... everyone was like "OMG O_O", myself included. Now 3 LRs filled with Termies with chainfists, backed by 3 Defilers... so cruel...  (forget the points, admit it, its AWESOME)
> 
> EDIT: the only thing that would be even meaner is that if I could field Rubric Termies, with 3+ Inv Save.... oh boy, that would be sweet...


You know the title of this, your thread right?

I really don't think 3 LRs will have the OMGWTF effect you are after vs the army that has MONOLITHS!

Also remember that Chain Fists don't get 2d6 AP vs Monoliths.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Khorothis said:


> I came up with the 3 LRs because of the potential OMGWTF effect it might have on the opponent. I remember seeing that list, with 3 LRs filled with Berzerkers... everyone was like "OMG O_O", myself included. Now 3 LRs filled with Termies with chainfists, backed by 3 Defilers... so cruel...  (forget the points, admit it, its AWESOME)
> 
> EDIT: the only thing that would be even meaner is that if I could field Rubric Termies, with 3+ Inv Save.... oh boy, that would be sweet...


Yeah, people tend to freak out against Raiders, you don't get the bonus in melee that you usually do D:
And in 3rd ed. you COULD take Rubric Terminators, unfortunately they rremoved that option T_T
Can't really remember what benefit they had though.
Oh wait, TWO WOUNDS.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

@Tim/Steeve

Oh, I forgot that bit. Thanks for reminding me. So Vindies/Defilers are the way forward. Should I put extra DCCW on the Defilers, or their starter setup is okay?

@darklove

Okay, I just told you about a list I saw once and how scary - and awesome - that was. But yeah, you're right, Monoliths are way more scary than Land Raiders, even if I paint them pink and add some Hello Kitties.  This reminds me of a Hello Kitty Dreadnought I saw once... lol...


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I would have them with the battlecannon and as many CCW as you can add on- you'll probably be hitting on 4+ with 5+ to penetrate and a 5 or 6 to destroy. That'll mean that you need an average of 18A to destroy them (or 9 if it didnt move or got immobalised).

Charge the defiler into the side with the portal and if you immobalise it then they cant use it for extra WBB. If you happen to destroy it then that is all to the good.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

I think a Defiler with a heavy flamer and extra CC weapon is good.
I mean, it's not as good in melee, but if you need it in melee, it'll kick ass anyway.
The heavy flamer is just a good substitute for some situations:

Light models in cover, don't want to risk them getting a save.
Friendly infantry nearby, don't want to blow them up (I learned this the hard way as nids, if you go horde, BARBED STRANGLERS ARE YOUR ENEMY).
And also you can just use it as a close-range backup in case the cannon is destroyed.

If you intend to use it for shooting though, it's probably best to give it a Havoc launcher and Reaper auto.
Yes yes, "You've got a battlecannon, you don't need them!".
But frankly, the Reaper is BETTER against light vehicles, extra shot, about the same -proper- hit chance for every shot, and you have 2, so you're pretty much better off.
And the Havoc is just nice against infantry if you happen to lose your cannon.

If you lose your battlecannon, and you're far away, chances are you won't make it into combat. You're better off shooting.


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## Zeriah (May 25, 2009)

*Beating Monoliths*

Monoliths are simply for keeping Necron armies together(wbb roll's) and to teleport squads around to avoid close combat.

If you take a step back and asses them they never (in my circumstances) earn their points back in a game, so all they are is a slow moving hard as nails pain in the ass los blocker. As for shooting it down...... don't bother! (All the mech players will agree on me with this).... see how pesky and annoying it is when you take the fight to the men on the other side of the field :taunt::laugh::laugh::biggrin:

but if you do want you to shoot it down. Don't leave home without at least two broadsides and a hammerhead for tau and stock up on lascannons for marines or guard. have you heard of flashlight death with lasguns.... well that's what it takes.... but with lascannons (lol to n00bs who thought lasguns would take out monoliths for a second or two:laugh


long story short if you dont want to bother keep away if you could be bothered lots of railguns/ lascannons.:good:


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

@Zeriah: in my experience, Monoliths more than make their points back. This is either in the form of units killed, the Particle Whip always does well in my games; or in the tactical application of the portal. If the Monolith help 13 Warriors pass their WBB then it has earned it's points and more: you don't seem to remember that everything in the codex is actually 25% more expensive than the points listed due to the Phase Out system. In real terms Warriors would cost 23pts, so saving only 10 would be enough.

An SM player (playing as Flesh Tearers) once told me, after a game against my Necrons, that he had tried to ignore the Monolith and kill the 'soft' target Warriors to get a Phase Out. The problem was, he said, that by the time he had got to my Warriors the Monolith had killed most of his army, leaving him almost nothing to hurt anything with, and could then redeploy all the Warriors to safety with the Portal. This is quite typical of Necron games.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Against a careless MEQ player the lith will destroy his army. Against a good player it might be a little annoying and will force them to change tactics and formations (and keep to cover/transports more) but isnt game changing... but then it isnt meant to be: monoliths are a support vehicle. They keep your warriors in the fight and out of combat. If you get to the end of the game without having phased out or been gradually destroyed in combat then your lith has been effective; putting a pts value on those abilities is pretty tricky since saving just 1 warrior could save/win you the game

Any cron army of 1500pts+ without a lith is just missing a huge chunk of itself- to me its the same as taking a nilla marine army without any tactical squads: possible but somehow just wrong.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

darklove said:


> @Zeriah: in my experience, Monoliths more than make their points back. This is either in the form of units killed, the Particle Whip always does well in my games; or in the tactical application of the portal. If the Monolith help 13 Warriors pass their WBB then it has earned it's points and more: you don't seem to remember that everything in the codex is actually 25% more expensive than the points listed due to the Phase Out system. In real terms Warriors would cost 23pts, so saving only 10 would be enough.


Wait, WHAT?
How can you say they're worth 25% more?
What are you basing that on?


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Based on the Phase Out system. Necrons are more powerful than their points suggest - this was a tricky balance that GW had to find. They wanted enough models in the army to be able to make money, but the profiles were so strong that the high point value was prohibitive. Enter the Phase Out system. This system means you have to kill enough Necrons to drop them below 25% of the original 'Necron' count, which is usually about 50% of the point value of an army (as Scarabs, Tomb Spiders, C'tan etc. don't count towards Phase Out).

An enemy player never has to kill more than about 50% of the points value of a Necron army in order to cause Phase Out, so even if the Necron player has the majority of his army intact he could still auto-lose. If Phase Out was removed as a game mechanic then the balancing element would be point values for the models, putting up the cost. A Warriors would then be about 23pts, a Destroyer about 63pts, a Lord with Orb would be 175pts etc.


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