# why is the Emperor a withered corpse?



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

If I'm not mistaken, the golden throne casts a stasis field from which the Emperor is somehow able to project his psychic beacon 

if the Emperor is within a stasis field, why is he all shriveled up
shouldn't his body be well preserved like Guilliman's?


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the golden throne casts a stasis field from which the Emperor is somehow able to project his psychic beacon
> 
> if the Emperor is within a stasis field, why is he all shriveled up and desiccated
> shouldn't his body be well preserved like Guilliman's?


Stasis fields don't stop time, they just slow it to a crawl. Essentially, the same thing is happening to the Emperor that happened to Malcador, it just takes a hell of a lot longer due to the Emperor's immense power. The Throne was never meant to be sat on for 10,000 years, maybe only a few hundred or so while the Webway was conquered by humanity.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

@SG: It doesn't explain why Guilliman's body is in pristine condition. He was entombed not too long after the Emperor if I am not mistaken.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Also take into account the sheer amount of horrific injuries Horus inflicted upon the Emperor (see the _CV_ for details).


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

But the Emperor on the Golden Throne is beyond just injured, he is a withered skeleton. His hair, his bones, his skin, etc. everything about it has this zombie-corpse look about it that can't just be from his fight with Horus.

I'm assuming his daily battle at keeping the Webway intact and guiding the astrominican among other things over the tens of thousands of years is the reason while Guilliman isn't doing anything.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Keeping the breach closed takes a massive amount of energy, Malcador was the third (probably) most powerful human psyker and he lasted like an hour. Plus the statis of the Golden Throne clearly isn't total as the Emperor effects and is effected by things outside the field (the breach/Astronomicon and soul choir respectively).


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> But the Emperor on the Golden Throne is beyond just injured, he is a withered skeleton. His hair, his bones, his skin, etc. everything about it has this zombie-corpse look about it that can't just be from his fight with Horus.


If you havn't before, read the injury list that the _CV_ cites:



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> There is an account of the battle in the Horus Heresy: Collected Visions. Basically Horus Owns the Emperor the entire fight.. Some of the Emperor's injuries include:
> 
> Crushed Windpie
> Severed Jugular
> ...


Any individual that has gone through all that isn't really going to look healthy, but your next point -



Malus Darkblade said:


> I'm assuming his daily battle at keeping the Webway intact and guiding the astrominican among other things over the tens of thousands of years is the reason while Guilliman isn't doing anything.


- is probably more of the reason why he is a withered corpse.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

A stasis field stops the progression of time within a confined area, which explains why the field on Macragge has kept Guillimans' corpse from degrading at all, even so far as to prevent the blood from the wound he suffered from moving. Even if the Emperor were to be held within a full stasis field and the field didn't actually stop time, the wounds inflicted to the Emperor on Horus's ship would not explain the difference in their conditions. 

If I were to hazard a guess I would say that the emperor isn't completely enclosed within a stasis field.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

SoulGazer said:


> Stasis fields don't stop time, they just slow it to a crawl.


actually, that is the argument I've always made (I don't think stasis fields literally stop time)

so...as you've said, stasis fields slow time down to a crawl
in 40k, that crawl is _almost infinitely slow_ 

40k stasis fields should be able to preserve bodies in very good condition for tens of thousands (if not millions) of years (like Guilliman's body) 

in addition to that, we're talking about the body of the Emperor
...I'm pretty sure that the Imperium's using one of the most powerful stasis fields available to prevent the body from decaying

the only plausible explanation I've though of so far:
the Emperor is projecting his psychic "light" even while surrounded by a stasis field, perhaps the psychic effort results in physical decay despite the field? I dunno...



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Any individual that has gone through all that isn't really going to look healthy


yeah but injuries are injuries...did Horus wither his flesh and turn him into something like








I'm inclined to answer "no"
in fact, I'm almost certain that when the Emperor speaks his last words to Dorn, he doesn't look like ^


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

holy shit epic picture. if it's fanmade then he needs to contact BL asap and start cranking out some covers


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

As I understand it the golden throne keeps him alive but not in stasis. I think there are fluff bits that indicate that communication with the emperor was possible for a while after he took his place on the golden throne.(Don't aske me for sources because my copy of the collected visions is 2000km away. But I am not a LUX) That pretty much rules out stasis. I would also think that maintaining the astronomicon and being in stasis are mutually exclusive. The withered husk bit is because maintaining the astronomicon and holding the demons back has worn him out, but the throne still manages to keep him alive.


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## CE5511 (Apr 16, 2011)

I also unterstand that the throne mearly acts as life support. I wanna say its in a space marine codex, but the emperor talks with dorn but in a bit of a babbling state while on hooked up to the throne after the final battle. With that said, I couldn't see him in stasis if he did that. I've also understood the throne keeps his mind sharp and even only then by sacrifices of psykers. If it were stasis, he wouldn't look like he does but he wouldn't be able to project out like he does either. But if he could he still wouldn't look like he does dispite how bad he got messed up by horus. I think him being worn out by keeping demons out, webways up, and the becon going is a very likely reason, but I really don't think the throne projects a stasis field


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

The Big E said his injuries where "not as bad as he expected but worse than he hoped" after his scrap with Horus. All the fluff about him being a corps like being could be bullshit as the Emperor only allows himself to be seen as he wants. 
It may be that although crippled he just cant get off the damn throne as he needs to guide the astronomican keep the webway portal closed, he wanted Magnus to man the throne so he could finish his grand plan on the webway but Magnus went and fecked it up with his phycic message and there is no other psyker who can do it.
We dont know the healing abilities of the Emperor and the fluff was put in place to give mankind a leader but a reason not to have him around, Guilliman is rumoured to be slowly healing in his stasis field and remember Ferrus Manus put his hands in lava with a fell beast and instead of his hansds burning completely away they came away metalised by being fused with said beasty and primarchs are only a fraction of the power of the Emperor, maybe the 1000 souls sacrificed to him everyday are not just keeping him alive but slowly healing him as he did not need this sacrifice before, he may be flesh and blood just all fucked up like Captain Pike the first captain of the enterprise except sitting on a golden throne with a blinking red light, truth is we will never now!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

The emperor post of his battle with Horus....was conscious....long enough to explain to Dorn the golden throne and what to do with him and the throne...

On his way to the throne wavered in and out of consciousness...when he arrived to the throne....Malcadors last ounce of power flowed into the emperor....it revived him into consciousness...for a brief amount of time...

Shortly after he fell into a coma....Draco the inquisitor....has spoken with the Emperor....with the fragments of the Emperor.....he is aware...but is so divided across the imperium....he rarely if ever focuses on his physical shell....what is left of it..


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I agree with Oldman78. Maybe he doesn't make himself _look_ like a corpse, per se, but the Horus Heresy novels and "Collected Visions" impress the fact that he _needs_ to be on that Throne.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

If the Emperor were just in a stasis field, he probably would look the same as he did when he sat down, just like Guilliman. It's the power drain of keeping the webway shut that's making his body wither. Same thing happened to Malcador, only in real time and with a much less powerful being.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

The more simple answer is no matter what the Throne is, it's partly to mostly broken. And about to fail. That was clear in the most recent edition's fluff. Maybe he's not supposed to decay and degrade, but that part of the throne's systems aren't quite working anymore.


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## thebinman (Jun 18, 2010)

The strain of keeping the webway shut was beginning to show even before the duel with Horus. 10,000 years of it would test a man...:shok:


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

I like the idea of him making himself appear to be decaying, while he heals from 1000 psykers a day being sacrificed to him. It seems like the Golden Throne starting to fail could lead up to his "Miraculous recovery" to battle the deamons, or perhaps seal those holes in reality that the deamons are trying to force their way through. It seems like something the Emperor would do, given the fact that he had most of the Thunder Warriors culled after he successfully united the Earth, making himself appear as the sole survivor so that everyone would adore him all that much more.

What say you all? Does that scenario seem like something the Emperor would do?


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Who says permant hook up to the GT is not a reason? Could just be the results of him being fully connected to the thing.

The fact that he eats ungodly amounts of Pskers to keep the juice on could also be a reason.


That pic is badass.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

E just needs a few Ginsters pasties and Bovril and he will be back fighting fit in no time at all


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

bitsandkits said:


> E just needs a few Ginsters pasties and he will be back fighting fit in no time at all


Food of the gods...

Some questions following on from the emp being a withered yet surprissingly active corpse
What happens if the big E dies?
I assume his soul would be easily able to remain conscious after death in the warp - bog standard eldar can, so he's a shoe in. Do you reckon he would he then get munched by the chaos gods, or would he be able to fight them off? (not win, just keep himself whole)
Would he re-incarnate?


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## nevynxxx (Dec 27, 2011)

bitsandkits said:


> E just needs a few Ginsters pasties and Bovril and he will be back fighting fit in no time at all


Surely Tea?

My only regret in life is that I allowed my collection of WD to be thrown out while I was out of the game at Uni and just after. I'd love to have the one back where one of the guys in the battle report says something like "It's obvious why I picked this, it rocks, but I need to write a specific number of word, so here's the definitive guide to making a proper cup of tea"


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Dammit, I never knew the Emperor's injuries were so comically severe; now whenever I think of the Emperor/Horus showdown all I'm going to think of is the black knight scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. 

Emperor: "Tis but a scratch!"
Horus: "A scratch? Your arm's off!" 
Emperor: "No, it isn't!"


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

I suppose the main reason for Him to be described as a withered corpse was initially just a fluff excuse to give mankind a super leader who could never be represented on the table, a tidy way of keeping Him out of the way. However most of the people who describe the the Big E as a corpse are agents of chaos and lets face it how would they now, and can they be trusted?

40k fluff is prone to over exaggerate and be inconsistent from time to time, describing Him as a withered corpse may not be literal, some of the patients in the hospital I work in who are riddled with T.B and Hepatitis look literally like withered corpses, I mean fucking skeletal but are still walking (albeit badly) talking human beings. The Big E may very well not be a literal corpse just emaciated, it is not like he can grab a protein shake and hit the gym anytime he wants.

Also the Big E is seen how he wants to be seen, and everyone sees Him different,most people see Him as dazzling light and Primarchs got weak at the knees in His presence so human accounts can be taken with a lot of salt, if everyone thinks He is a withered corpse that is maybe how they perceive Him, this could well fit the Big Es needs.

The fact is you can argue anyway, the Big E could be slowly healing, that could be why parts of the Golden Throne are failing because they could be becoming redundant as they are parts He no longer requires.We know the Big E can still communicate from the Golden Throne so surely if it is failing He could tell some tech mago where the user manual is!!!. The Big E may even have finally closed off the holes in the webway and is slowly regaining power, is the war in the webway even still going on.


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## revan4559 (Aug 9, 2010)

Im going to go out on a limb here and say that what is happening to the Emperor's Body is what happens to the bodies of Astartes when they interred within a dreadnought.

Dreadnought fluff is that a horribly wounded Astartes is placed within a life sustaining coffin which is then sealed. While they are horribly wounded for the most part they tend to still remain roughly astartes size in terms of size of muscles and flesh etc. Yet over time through un-use the body shrivells up and eats away most of the unused parts of the body to keep the rest working.

Im going to point out that when a dreadnought is opened up to reveal their occupant they are shrivelled corpse like things: The Warmounger (Word Bearers Omnibus), Raguel the Sufferer (Soul Hunter), and im sure there are other books out there where dreadnoughts are opened up and they are pretty much corpse like inside.

In most of the artwork of the emperor upon the golden throne shows him with just a skull and no eyes, most people would say having no flesh on your head would kill you im going to say that isnt true. There are ASTARTES currently out there with flesh missing from their heads/faces and they are perfectly thing. Chaplain Cassius of the Ultramarines is missing part of his face, Chapter Master Tyberous of the Space Sharks is missing a full half of his face as it says in his fluff the left(or right) side is just bone.

So all in all, im guessing that after the injuries done to him at the hands of Horus and sitting still for near on 10,000 years he isnt going to be in peak physical condition.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Oldman78 said:


> Also the Big E is seen how he wants to be seen, and everyone sees Him different,most people see Him as dazzling light and Primarchs got weak at the knees in His presence so human accounts can be taken with a lot of salt, if everyone thinks He is a withered corpse that is maybe how they perceive Him, this could well fit the Big Es needs.


But why would the Emperor want to look like a corpse? Surely its horrific for moral. Plus it provides one of the most common titles used by Chaos worshipers 'The Corpse God'. Surely, no one would choose to be identified with something most people find innately disgusting and unpleasant. 

And of course, that's leaving aside the fact that I don't think anyone has actually seen the Emperor (baring perhaps a couple Custodes, who would then likely not interact with others much) for a couple hundred years at least.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

MEQinc said:


> But why would the Emperor want to look like a corpse? Surely its horrific for moral. Plus it provides one of the most common titles used by Chaos worshipers 'The Corpse God'. Surely, no one would choose to be identified with something most people find innately disgusting and unpleasant.
> 
> And of course, that's leaving aside the fact that I don't think anyone has actually seen the Emperor (baring perhaps a couple Custodes, who would then likely not interact with others much) for a couple hundred years at least.


 
he may want to be seen that way as humanity is united its belief that he is that way, or if he is healing why let people know about it until you are ready, why let traitors who think you are slowly on your way out know elsewise


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

I can imagine it now:

Abaddon: "I have finally done it! I have reached Terra, breached the Imperial Palace, reached the Throne Room. Now all I have to do is kill this old fart and the galaxy's mine!!"
*Big E cracks an eye open*
"Oh bloody hell, do I have to do everything myself. I'm trying to catchup on all 23,457 series of How I Met Your Mother..."

*Zap*

"And we _still_ don't know who the mum is..."


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

DeathJester921 said:


> I like the idea of him making himself appear to be decaying, while he heals from 1000 psykers a day being sacrificed to him. It seems like the Golden Throne starting to fail could lead up to his "Miraculous recovery" to battle the deamons, or perhaps seal those holes in reality that the deamons are trying to force their way through. It seems like something the Emperor would do, given the fact that he had most of the Thunder Warriors culled after he successfully united the Earth, making himself appear as the sole survivor so that everyone would adore him all that much more.
> 
> What say you all? Does that scenario seem like something the Emperor would do?





MEQinc said:


> But why would the Emperor want to look like a corpse? Surely its horrific for moral. Plus it provides one of the most common titles used by Chaos worshipers 'The Corpse God'. Surely, no one would choose to be identified with something most people find innately disgusting and unpleasant.
> 
> And of course, that's leaving aside the fact that I don't think anyone has actually seen the Emperor (baring perhaps a couple Custodes, who would then likely not interact with others much) for a couple hundred years at least.


I refer you to my earlier post. He could do that so if he really is healing, at any point, he could stand up, fully fleshed, fully healed and be adored all the more by his subjects. It would make him seem all the more god-like, all the more powerful.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

DeathJester921 said:


> He could do that so if he really is healing, at any point, he could stand up, fully fleshed, fully healed and be adored all the more by his subjects. It would make him seem all the more god-like, all the more powerful.


If the rotting corpse is entirely a facade then the Emperor has intentionally chosen to make everybody think he has died. In other words, the Emperor has intentionally decided to allow everyone to think that the Chaos Gods actually killed (or at the very least, very nearly killed) him. He has given every Chaos follower ever the ability to say "See, we killed the Emperor! He can't really be a god because we killed him! The Chaos Gods are more powerful than he is, because they killed him!" and have it be true. Every single horror that has befallen the galaxy since the interment of the Emperor is now something he chose to let happen. He could've "at any point" stood up and helped his people, and he didn't. Why?


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

so after 3 pages.... we are all agreed....

the Emperor is the ultimate couch potato... =)


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Like others have said. maybe it is all a facade. He has been sitting on the couch watching tv for 10000years. With a normal person you would be morbidly obese in a couple of years. Maybe thats why he cannot get up. He's put on a little weight.


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

MEQinc said:


> If the rotting corpse is entirely a facade then the Emperor has intentionally chosen to make everybody think he has died. In other words, the Emperor has intentionally decided to allow everyone to think that the Chaos Gods actually killed (or at the very least, very nearly killed) him. He has given every Chaos follower ever the ability to say "See, we killed the Emperor! He can't really be a god because we killed him! The Chaos Gods are more powerful than he is, because they killed him!" and have it be true. Every single horror that has befallen the galaxy since the interment of the Emperor is now something he chose to let happen. He could've "at any point" stood up and helped his people, and he didn't. Why?


In the Outcast Dead, he tells Kai that "Some things need to happen." That should be answer enough, I suppose. Wether they choose to expand on that or not remains to be seen. To me, this is answer enough. Let the Chaos Gods and their disciples revel in their "victory", and when things are at the most dire for the Imperium, the Emperor gets up off his throne, shocking all things Chaos and leading those forces loyal to him, who will be shocked, yet given hope and are then spurred onto victory against Chaos. Perhaps that is his aim. Sit back and gather enough strength, then rise up and smite the followers of chaos, and perhaps the Chaos Gods themselves if he has gathered enough strength.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

If they actually did that I would go meh, only thing worse would be Space Marines defeating Chaos by summoning Captain Planet.


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

scscofield said:


> If they actually did that I would go meh, only thing worse would be Space Marines defeating Chaos by summoning Captain Planet.


Well, given the state of the Imperium, it would take a while for the Emperor to triumph over chaos, if the case I stated does, in fact, come true. Decades, perhaps centuries if we factor in all the other threats that the Imperium has to face. It wouldn't be a fast process. Not at all


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

I remember seeing an old account of the battle between the Emperor and Horus. Stating as he collapsed after knocking off Horus, his psychic power fled him and the full weight of his true age came crushing down on his body.

In the HH books some psykers have noticed that the Emperor is keeping an immensely powerful glamour around his body and having glimpses of an inhuman core at the center of his being. My thought is simply that the Emperor's body withered a long time ago, and he is hiding it with the force of his will, hence the blinding aura he emits. Much like a lich hiding his undead form through powerful illusions.

If either of the 2 is close to the truth, it would certainly lend crecendence to the idea of the Emperor being nearly completely estranged from human life, just going through the motions while remaining monomaniacally focused on the aeons long term goal.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

scscofield said:


> If they actually did that I would go meh, only thing worse would be Space Marines defeating Chaos by summoning Captain Planet.


+1 on this.

Earth! Air! Fire! Water! erm... Heart?!


if they did this, and had the emp did come back, he'd also rise from the floor with dry ice and 'The Final Countdown' playing.

Then 40K dies.


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## nevynxxx (Dec 27, 2011)

Brother Lucian said:


> In the HH books some psykers have noticed that the Emperor is keeping an immensely powerful glamour around his body and having glimpses of an inhuman core at the center of his being. My thought is simply that the Emperor's body withered a long time ago, and he is hiding it with the force of his will, hence the blinding aura he emits. Much like a lich hiding his undead form through powerful illusions.


Would also tie in quite nicely with the idea that he made a bargain with Chaos to create the SM. Perhaps his withered form is the price he paid?

One thing a lot of people on this thread miss is that, of the Imperium, only a handful are supposed to even know Chaos *exists*. The idea that people know the emperor's form or that his true form would have an effect on morale, is ludicrus. 99.999999% of the imperium don't know/believe he even exists most likely, other than as a christ like figure.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Well, he is after all an 38 thousand year old creature by the time of the horus heresy. We dont really know how his 'immortality' have panned out, if his will simply allows him to play his husk like a puppeteer and hiding its decrepit state with the power of his will. 

Vampires makes for popular immortals, as one of the perks is to keep a perfect form, unlike liches or zombies.


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

perhaps one reasons is that its a curse of his immortality, whereby he has been a decayed corpse for some time before his placement on the Throne, and his Psychic ability has shrouded that... alas on the GT he has other concerns than maintaining a form.

Another idea might be that the Chaos gods have cursed him with anyone gazing upon him to see a carrion lord as opposed to the true vigour of the emperor.

either way I would like to see him make a reappearance even if it was for a short while.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Crushed Windpie


Has to be said, there is NOTHING worse than a crushed Windpie! :wink:


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

on page 135 of the BRB there a picture and in the center there a picture is this supposed to be the emperor?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Grins1878 said:


> Has to be said, there is NOTHING worse than a crushed Windpie! :wink:


Personal experience? 



kickboxerdog said:


> on page 135 of the BRB there a picture and in the center there a picture is this supposed to be the emperor?


Yep, that's him. Personally that is my favourite illustration.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

My one major issue with the Emperor recovery theory; why is the Astronomican getting _weaker_ then?


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## revan4559 (Aug 9, 2010)

Chompy Bits said:


> My one major issue with the Emperor recovery theory; why is the Astronomican getting _weaker_ then?


The golden throne is failing which has a link to the astronomican. Seeing as the emperor is sustained by the golden throne and that he is the one who projects the guiding light, as his life support unit fails so does he and everything he does.


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

Anyone know how long before the GT batteries run out.... I am gonna want to get a few games in with my ultra-smurfs without them Chaos players mocking me too much.... =)


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

Zetronus said:


> Anyone know how long before the GT batteries run out.... I am gonna want to get a few games in with my ultra-smurfs without them Chaos players mocking me too much.... =)


Well, they get mocked by everyone else, so Chaos players mocking them too much won't really make a difference


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

DeathJester921 said:


> Well, they get mocked by everyone else, so Chaos players mocking them too much won't really make a difference


surely Shirley you jest =)


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## Mellow_ (Aug 5, 2012)

revan4559 said:


> The golden throne is failing which has a link to the astronomican. Seeing as the emperor is sustained by the golden throne and that he is the one who projects the guiding light, as his life support unit fails so does he and everything he does.


Seems pretty obvious that once the GT fails the last few cells in his body will die and the astronomicon will go out.


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## LordofFenris (Mar 10, 2010)

Gonna throw my two cents in:

Are people forgetting what Tzeentch showed Magnus the Red his fate would be if he stayed at the emperor's side? The description made Magnus seem to look a lot like the Emperor is described as looking like. Before anyone starts with the "tzeentch lied" bullcrap, even he said it himself, what reason did he have to lie. Magnus was already his.

I don't think the Throne is meant to do anything more than emit the Astronomican, and hold back the Eye of Terror. The side effect of this is a very long life. The Emperor looks as he does because he is physically dead. Even a Primarch can be killed, and if those CV stated injuries are close to what occurred, then I'm not surprised he died. The Throne has tethered the Emperors psyche and will to this plane, even though his body died due to his wounds at the hands of the Warmaster. When the Throne shuts down, it will release the anchor that holds is mind in place. I suspect the Emperor died when he spoke for the last time. All that sits on the Throne now, is a rotting, deceased corpse.


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## VixusKragov (Feb 21, 2012)

Personally, I think (as many others have said) the strain of keeping the Astronomican in shape has done this to him. Or the immortality-illusion theory. But as far as the "rises up suddenly in perfect condition at the most dire moment" theory goes, I really hope not. I'd rather he die and the Astronomicon go out and have Chaos invade. Kind of a desperate yet ultimately useless last stand of the Imperium. Seems to fit WH40K much better :wink:


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

To be honest I don't think we know what the hell is going on here. Before the Heresy series we were lead to believe the Heresy took the Emperor unawares and he was reactionary to the last as his heart was broken by the whole thing. Obviously those of us that have kept up have learned a lot more. SPOILER ALERT




The Emperor as well as Malcador was fully aware of Horus's betrayal and sent Ferrus to his death to root out any other traitors. The picture of Malcador with the skulls tattooed with 2 and 9 are showing us that while he cares for his sons, he's not shy about putting them down if necessary. The introduction of the Perpetuals in Know No Fear has lead to questioning exactly wha tthe hell the Emperor might be and his true purpose as Mechanicum showed manipulation of emotions and hopes was his game. Finally we learned in Deliverance Lost that the Emperor let's those who gaze upon him percieve him as they wish as when Corax asks him if what he sees is his true face he tells him that he doesn't have one. With that and seeing him posess Malcador to communicate with his sons, I don't believe the Emperor is a physical being. I think he's a warp/human hybrid and the body he possessed being destroyed was a set back but not a defeat.I think he inhabited that body like a daemon. He currently exists as 7 beings or more.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

[QUOTE The Emperor as well as Malcador was fully aware of Horus's betrayal and sent Ferrus to his death to root out any other traitors.[/QUOTE]

How is this true? Ferrus was a few kilometers ahead of the other forces at Istvaan at best, he hardly sprung the trap and let everyone else know the other Legions who turned, they found out when they got shot at by the guys behind them not Ferrus going ahead of them, everyone was in the trap already!! If this stems from "The Outcast Dead" chess scene, then forget it, that book was a tangent to nowhere and that scene makes no sense what so ever.

As for the Big E and his wasted image, maybe smoking 80 cigs a day for 10,000yrs adds a wrinkle or two


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Deadeye776 said:


> To be honest I don't think we know what the hell is going on here. Before the Heresy series we were lead to believe the Heresy took the Emperor unawares and he was reactionary to the last as his heart was broken by the whole thing. Obviously those of us that have kept up have learned a lot more. SPOILER ALERT
> 
> The Emperor as well as Malcador was fully aware of Horus's betrayal and sent Ferrus to his death to root out any other traitors. The picture of Malcador with the skulls tattooed with 2 and 9 are showing us that while he cares for his sons, he's not shy about putting them down if necessary. The introduction of the Perpetuals in Know No Fear has lead to questioning exactly wha tthe hell the Emperor might be and his true purpose as Mechanicum showed manipulation of emotions and hopes was his game. Finally we learned in Deliverance Lost that the Emperor let's those who gaze upon him percieve him as they wish as when Corax asks him if what he sees is his true face he tells him that he doesn't have one. With that and seeing him posess Malcador to communicate with his sons, I don't believe the Emperor is a physical being. I think he's a warp/human hybrid and the body he possessed being destroyed was a set back but not a defeat.I think he inhabited that body like a daemon. He currently exists as 7 beings or more.


The Emperor and Kai's chess scene is still very much ambiguous, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions as of yet. 

Also, if the opinion of Graham Mcneill counts for anything, this is from an email:


Graham Mcneill said:


> Well, the Emperor is in his current state due to having nine shades of crap kicked out of him by Horus...


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## Mellow_ (Aug 5, 2012)

The chess scene is brilliant. It shows the Emperor could clearly multitask keeping the imperial webway gate closed while communicating with someone else at the same time. 

That said if he had just blotted out Horus's soul with his killshot at the beginning of his fight instead of waiting till he almost lost he wouldn't be in this situation (and neither would the imperium)


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Mellow_ said:


> That said if he had just blotted out Horus's soul with his killshot at the beginning of his fight instead of waiting till he almost lost he wouldn't be in this situation (and neither would the imperium)


If that would have even been possible...


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

to be fair though deadeye, ferrus simply took a rash decision, he would have survived if he wasnt so ridiculously headstrong, he went against dorn orders and against the advice of his brothers as well as as far as i remember the advice of his captains.

furthermore, i was under the impression the Emperor left pretty much every facet of the imperium's physical defense to Dorn and malcador, so while he was aware of the threat, since he was indisposed with the webway and Magnus's treachery he played little to no part in how Dorn waged the war.


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## Mellow_ (Aug 5, 2012)

I thought there was a piece of fluff that stated the Emperor personally led the defence of the palace with some librarians ... ?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Is the Astronomicon not projected by a choir of Astropaths, not by the Emperor any more? On pg 168 of the BRB:

C. M30
Birth of the Astronomicon
The Emperor creates the great psychic beacon that allows Navigators to steer within the Warp and travel great distances. Originally powered solely by the Emperor, that duty is eventually shifted to a great choir of 10,000 psykers instead, heralding the birth of the organisation that would become the Adeptus Astronomica.

It can't be taking _that_ much of a strain on him, surely? The Adeptus Astronomica 'provide the raw psychic power of the Astronomicon' (pg 139), so the Emperor's not even producing the juice for it.

Midnight


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

he is however simultaneously guiding it, holding back chaos, stopping the warp from swallowing Terra ( when Magnus punched a whole through the webway allowing a numberless horde of demons direct access to the imperial palace and dragging the whole planet into the warp, the Emperor holds back the army and the warp) while being pretty much physically dead,id say it takes quite the toll give the guy a break


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## Mellow_ (Aug 5, 2012)

Why would the Astronomicon need "guiding" if it essentially a lightbulb powered by 10,000 psykers? It's not like it's a lighthouse that he has to make the shiny beam go round in circles for eternity...

So I think he's not doing anything with the Astronomicon, he's not holding the webway gate shut because it probably "self healed" shut ages ago (like apparently the webway can)

Which only leaves the "being a corpse" thing left on the list of things to do... Either that or he's watching Stargate reruns on his TV


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Mellow_ said:


> Why would the Astronomicon need "guiding" if it essentially a lightbulb powered by 10,000 psykers? It's not like it's a lighthouse that he has to make the shiny beam go round in circles for eternity...
> 
> So I think he's not doing anything with the Astronomicon, he's not holding the webway gate shut because it probably "self healed" shut ages ago (like apparently the webway can)
> 
> Which only leaves the "being a corpse" thing left on the list of things to do... Either that or he's watching Stargate reruns on his TV


I always had the impression that the Emperor was focusing the Astronomican into a coherent beacon. Elsewise it would just be too diffuse.

Also something -is- still soulbinding Astropaths. Hundreds of them led before the throne daily and he uses his will to reshape their minds, granting them a fraction of his will. In the Blind book about astropaths, it was described having white fire hammered into their minds, and how it would return to the Emperor upon their deaths.


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## Mellow_ (Aug 5, 2012)

You've single handedly proved the Emperor is still alive! (in a dead body)

Quite rightly you have pointed out that something or someone is still soulbinding Astropaths. Gotta be him, right?

He is of course quite quite mad in the head (as revealed in The Inquisition War trilogy)


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

I've always wondered about the issue of the Emperor guiding the Astronomican myself, considering it's been used since the kick-off to the GC, allowing warp travel through the long jumps needed to actually have an Imperium. However, I'm not aware (which isn't sayin' much) that the Black Ships were around prior to the Emperors interment in the Golden Throne.

The book Mechanicum gives a few clues, 

Adept Zeth of the Magma City develops her own Golden Throne of sorts, the Akashik Reader, that allows the psyker installed thereon access to a certain form of omniscence. The Akashik Reader is built into the same kind of room, a dome lined with alcoves of psykers, "embedded in the walls of the chamber, understanding that they were the mortal fuel used to power this device." They even have to tap into the Astronomican to add additional fuel for running the device.
 The Emperor is probably using the Golden Throne and the Astropathic Choir to do his duty as the godhead he tried to avoid, with the proximity to the Astronomican giving him the juice needed to keep it going.

Can you also provide some references to the Webway being self-repairing? If you're going in the direction of the Inquisition Wars, please keep in mind that as the first 40K book, the author (self-admittedly from the Introduction) was making a lot of stuff up just to tell a good story, and has been overridden in the more canon fluff many times.

Proof that the Emperor is still 100% living and not just a corpse on the machine that goes "PING"? Well, all those stories about Astares, Inquisitors, Magos, and other Imperials hearing the voices in their heads and seeing a bright light when they pull out their winning lottery ticket... what more proof has any human needed to believe in the existence of a god?

Besides, the updated BSG would be more in line with the 40k Grimdark :laugh:


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> I've always wondered about the issue of the Emperor guiding the Astronomican myself, considering it's been used since the kick-off to the GC, allowing warp travel through the long jumps needed to actually have an Imperium. However, I'm not aware (which isn't sayin' much) that the Black Ships were around prior to the Emperors interment in the Golden Throne.
> 
> The book Mechanicum gives a few clues,
> 
> ...



The Emperor himself fully powered the Astronomican until the webway crisis during the Horus Heresy, where increasing amounts of his will was getting drawn towards maintaining the breached imperial webway. It was when Malcador informed him that the astronomican had started to wane because of the strain that the Emperor agreed to burn mortal psykers as fuel for the beacon. But what which once only was meant as a temporary stopgap to allow Him to concentrate nearly completely on the Webway and just lending his will to steer the astronomican. Then became a permanent fixture of the Imperium that have lasted for ten thousand years and consumed countless numbers of psykers.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Brother Lucian said:


> The Emperor himself fully powered the Astronomican until the webway crisis during the Horus Heresy.


I'm not trying to be a pain, but do you have a reference? Since the Astronomican is a geographically-based phenomenon, then the implication is the navigable range of the galaxy was shifting as the Emperor was flitting from one place to another during the GC. Orrrrr... this is a sci-fi fantasy, where everything is possible with a little imagination :victory:


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## randian (Feb 26, 2009)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> However, I'm not aware (which isn't sayin' much) that the Black Ships were around prior to the Emperors interment in the Golden Throne.


In Fear to Tread, a Space Marine wonders how a pariah managed to escape the Black Ships, so apparently the Emperor's psyker extermination project was well under way before the beginning of the Heresy.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> I'm not trying to be a pain, but do you have a reference? Since the Astronomican is a geographically-based phenomenon, then the implication is the navigable range of the galaxy was shifting as the Emperor was flitting from one place to another during the GC. Orrrrr... this is a sci-fi fantasy, where everything is possible with a little imagination :victory:


Read page 88 in the Horus heresy artbook volume 2, Visions of Darkness. Under the astronomican crisis heading, where the Emperor and Malcador discusses the failing astronomican and how he suggests using mortal psykers as fuel, with the emperor providing the correct frequencies and modulation. And stating the big E had been clearly fuelling it until now, but because of magnus' ill informed visit to terra that shattered the defenses of the palace. All of his might was needed to seal the breach.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Mellow_ said:


> I thought there was a piece of fluff that stated the Emperor personally led the defence of the palace with some librarians ... ?


No, he did not. Throughout the Siege of Terra the Emperor was confined to the Golden Throne, until Malcador took over the duty whilst the Emperor confronted Horus on the _Vengeful Spirit_.

In regards to the Astronomican, it is quite simple. The Emperor created the beacon which was originally powered and guided by himself personally. However, during the webway crisis an increasing amount of the Emperor's attention and power was required elsewhere, so the solution of using other human psykers to power the beacon - with the Emperor then only guiding it - was employed. This was originally meant as a temporary solution, but since the Emperor's ascension it had become the only viable permanent solution.



MidnightSun said:


> It can't be taking _that_ much of a strain on him, surely? The Adeptus Astronomica 'provide the raw psychic power of the Astronomicon' (pg 139), so the Emperor's not even producing the juice for it.


Powering and guiding the Astronomican never seemed to be an issue for the Emperor during the Great Crusade. However, with an increasing amount of his power needed elsewhere (primarily to keep the webway sealed) the Emperor struggled to both power and guide the psychic beacon. Thus the duty of powering it was shifted to the Adeptus Astronomica.



Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> However, I'm not aware (which isn't sayin' much) that the Black Ships were around prior to the Emperors interment in the Golden Throne.


The Black Ships were around during the Great Crusade, as referenced in _The Voice_, _Serpent Beneath_ and _Fear to Tread_.



Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> Can you also provide some references to the Webway being self-repairing?


Regardless of whether or not it is, it has no relevance to this discussion because the Emperor isn't directly keeping a section of the webway sealed. He is keeping a human-built bridge that hacked into the webway sealed.


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