# Dark Angels - Why would you not use C:SM?



## the.alleycat.uk (Jun 11, 2009)

Ok, so I finally got my paws on the new Codex Space Marines... and wow!

One of the things that dropped me out the hobby was picking up Codex DA when it came out and I saw all the options i no longer had which rendered many of my conversions obsolete. Put me off teh whole Direction 40k was going in...

Now I read Codex Space Marines and it's full of options, many of them just cool from a modelling point of view, I'm genuinely impressed.

So anyway, why would a Dark Angel Player NOT use this wonderful codex? The only exception I can even think of would be for all terminator Deathwing Armies [and ok, i like assault squads with AC but i'll buy a redeemer m'kay]

I just don't get why one wouldn't do this. I love the Dark Angels look, fluff etc and would never change chapter... but they've always suffered compared to most marine armies since second ed... now the gulf is huuuuuge.

Discuss


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## Medic Marine (Jun 28, 2009)

OMG YES!
I jumped in at 4th edition and got DA. Then 5ht ed Codexcomes out and damn I'm think thank god I took a successor chapter. (I play both or fun now) 

It seems to me however that everyone thats not codex gets boned. Accept BA they seem fine screw them.

I think Space Puppies need to be over hauled but they are rather cheap imo. 5th edition makes Counter attack kinda nasty. But yes DA gets hosed by the new codex, Drop pods are cool now and cheaper. Razor backs get cooler guns, and all the options! Gah.... I win more with vanilla marines.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Using the generic codex is probably a plan, if you want an army based around infantry. For deathwing or ravenwing you still kind of have to play DA using their book.


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

One of the upsides to GWs myopic focus on marine armies is that you can use different rules for the same army as the mood strikes you. World Eaters can be represented with Codex: Blood Angels, for example, if the player thinks that codex's flavor is more appropriate.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Someguy said:


> For deathwing or ravenwing you still kind of have to play DA using their book.


why do you? 
captain on bike + bikers = ravenwing
Combat squadded terminator squads = deathwing, maybe throw in a master of the forge to get those dreads in there as well, sure there not scoring, but who gives a crap.

plus most people combined death and ravenwing, which is perfectly fine with the basic marine codex as well


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Stella Cadente said:


> why do you? Combat squadded terminator squads = deathwing


Not really. They wouldn't be Troops, so you'd be stuck fielding some non-Terminator armored models, which wouldn't then be a pure (and traditional) Deathwing army.

'Sides, Ravenwing Bikes have a couple of perks over normal Marine Bikes. Not ones that are worth their points, mind, but they do exist nonetheless.


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## Medic Marine (Jun 28, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Not really. They wouldn't be Troops, so you'd be stuck fielding some non-Terminator armored models, which wouldn't then be a pure (and traditional) Deathwing army.


Not to mention that codex marines are either assault or shooty. Death wing can swap and have CC and assult cannon and the such. Not that it really helps much. 

And nilla marines cannot Death Wing Assault. :scare: (its not that cool)


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Katie Drake said:


> Not really. They wouldn't be Troops, so you'd be stuck fielding some non-Terminator armored models, which wouldn't then be a pure (and traditional) Deathwing army.


so? a couple of 5 man scout units and you away, plus it would make sense, you ain't gonna commit mass amounts of elite troops without knowing whats down there first, be more realistic in my opinion, even in the unrealistic realms of 40k.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Stella Cadente said:


> so? a couple of 5 man scout units and you away, plus it would make sense, you ain't gonna commit mass amounts of elite troops without knowing whats down there first, be more realistic in my opinion, even in the unrealistic realms of 40k.


A couple five man Scout squads means you pretty much auto-lose any non-Annihilation mission.

Besides, committing mass amounts of elite troops is what the Deathwing is all about. It's what they're trained to do and what they've been doing since their inception.

I'm not saying that every Dark Angel player should stick to their own Codex, far from it. I'm just of the opinion that the Dark Angel Codex is a better choice for those interested in fielding very specific types of armies (i.e. a pure Deathwing army).


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Scoring Land Speeders. ALWAYS Scoring Land Speeders. Except the AV14/14/10 one, it's not scoring...

DA's are boned competitively, but that doesn't mean they can't be fun to play...


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

TheKingElessar said:


> Scoring Land Speeders. ALWAYS Scoring Land Speeders. Except the AV14/14/10 one, it's not scoring...


Naw. Vehicles can't score, even if they're Troops.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

DA Speeders can. Codex > BRB. Honestly. I may not _always_ be right, but I am on this, trust me. :wink:


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

TheKingElessar said:


> DA Speeders can. Codex > BRB. Honestly. I may not _always_ be right, but I am on this, trust me. :wink:


Fair enough. Thanks for pointing that out!


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Katie Drake said:


> A couple five man Scout squads means you pretty much auto-lose any non-Annihilation mission.


people actually play the crappy missions in the rulebook and don't make there own up? :shok:









why?


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

Because some of us play in tournys or at GW stores. 
Thought that would be pretty obvious or did you just want to take another bash at GW.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Talos said:


> or at GW stores.


so your admitting GW stores disallow your imagination in creating games and scenarios outside of the normal rulebook?


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

no I dont think I said anything like that. Do you like to try and turn everything into a bash on GW. 
But its obvious that if you play at a gw store or any pick up game it is alot easier to use the offical missions.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Talos said:


> no I dont think I said anything like that. Do you like to try and turn everything into a bash on GW.


actually not once have I even said anything negative about GW yet in this convo, except for the crappy missions in the rulebook of course, but everyone knows there crap.

your answer would imply that GW do not allow you to make up scenarios in a GW store.
"people don't make there own up?"
"because some people play at GW stores"
very strongly suggests GW don't allow imagination actually


Talos said:


> But its obvious that if you play at a gw store or any pick up game it is alot easier to use the offical missions.


how is it?, it takes several seconds to say
"that building and that building are the objectives, secondary objectives is annihilating/keeping alive that squad"
much better than *rolls dice* "yay kill points, oh wait your army has 20, I only have 10 and each one of my units is worth 3 to 4 of yours, this is gonna be a fun couple of hours for one of us"


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

I was going to build a Deathwing army, primarily for their durability, but after playing a few games I decided that the deathwing just couldn't compete. Admittedly I didn't try Ravenwing, but I'm building Saim Hann and didn't want a second bike army. I just couldn't see Deathwing terminators being able to survive any massed fire power or fighting enemy terminators. Belial is nice, especially with a chaplain, but now the C:SM captain and chapter master can win on initiative alone.
After I abandoned the Terminators I decided to go for tactical marines and the differences really shown. Codex marines are more flexible in number of models, get cheaper upgrades and can get cheaper transports. Admittedly, they cannot benefit from rights of battle, but imo they aren't worth it, so I switched to C:SM but kept the fluff for the Unforgiven.


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## the.alleycat.uk (Jun 11, 2009)

Cough *looks at topic title*

Just to break up the rapidly hottifying conversation going on above, but would anyone mind if we stuck to the discussion of Codex DA vs Codex SM?

I'm sure the conversation on kill points has been had many times [or maybe not]


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## Gigantor (Jun 21, 2009)

I think that this thread has gotten a little off track. Yes the new space marines book is cool. I think that landspeeders and bikes that can hold objectives a cool tho! Yes any troop choice can hold an objective unless it says otherwise eg. swarms.

As for GW not allowing imagination, it's not true. But I don't think that I would play a non-standard mission against someone I've never played against before. Making your own scenarios is definitely an awesome part of the hobby for some, but others just want to get into the game and play how they know. I go to a lot of tournaments, so I build army lists that cut down the number of kill points in my army. In my opinion, the standard missions can be a lot of fun and challenging. I have played some very cool custom scenarios and they're great too. But don't label GW as crushing imagination because some people don't agree with you. In fact, they've created a hobby that actually increases my imagination.


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## SoupyC (Jun 24, 2008)

I personally dropped my DA army when the new Codex came out. Too wide of a gap for me.


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## Evil beaver2 (Feb 3, 2009)

I have been known to plaw my dark angels as chaos marines. Half the chapter is chaos after all and that opens up a lot of options, but you cant use death wing or land speaders.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Just so we're crystal, only the Troops Land Speeders score...FA ones don't get the rule. 

EDIT: As in, the ones that _can_ be Troops - Attack Squadrons? Happy now, Captain Stalkage?


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