# Armies are getting squatted



## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

So according to one of Nafta sources several fantasy armies are being removed. 
http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2014/01/gw-changes-stores-closing-and-armies-no.html
Now do you feel abou this? For me I am totally surprised.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm not surprised, because it's bullshit. GW have said time and time again that they're not going to remove any armies the way they removed Squats again, because the community backlash was so strong. And that was with one, not even widely played army. To remove one 8th edition, popular book, and two that people have been baying for for four years? No.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

The only was I can see them getting away with this is if they merge them with other armies. So brets becomes part of the Empire. Wood Elves becomes part of High Elves and etc.


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## TechPr1est (Nov 6, 2011)

phewwwwww! for a second there i feared my skaven would be squatted.

hopefully you are correct MidnightSun it would be a real shame to see those armies go


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

But I like my Tomb Kings


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Page views must be getting low again because people don't trust them anymor. These guys are worse the 3++.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Yeah.... no. It's bollocks.


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## Worthy (Feb 10, 2013)

Yeah i'm not buying these rumours one bit, but why all the hate for a rumour blog?

Just take everything on there with a pinch of salt or stick to official sites because some BS will always get through on it.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Necrosis said:


> The only was I can see them getting away with this is if they merge them with other armies. So brets becomes part of the Empire. Wood Elves becomes part of High Elves and etc.


Like the "Ratlings" became part of the Imperial Guard.......BS I say! In any case I'm curious if the transfer of models to Forge World is a sign that GW might be near a collapse. If they are selling their stores in Germany (where 40k is very popular, not so sure on Fantasy) then they will loose possible revenue. However if sales are that bad over their then perhaps they are being forced to IOT survive.

Either way could mean new company will possibly buy them out? Maybe drive the price of models down?


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Worthy said:


> Yeah i'm not buying these rumours one bit, but why all the hate for a rumour blog?


Because they post idiotic crap like this that they overheard their cousins girlfriend talking to a janitor at a store next door to GWs.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)




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## Worthy (Feb 10, 2013)

DeathKlokk said:


> Because they post idiotic crap like this that they overheard their cousins girlfriend talking to a janitor at a store next door to GWs.


To be fair it's a rumour site where people send him rumours to his inbox, so anyone could send him BS - infact I might send him a message in a bit telling him that my GW Red Shirt cousin who works at Warhammer World in Nottingham was told by his boss that GorkaMorka is getting rereleased as a mystery box to coincide with the release of Codex Orks. :laugh:


Seriously though, he's got a few right (White Dwarf going weekly being one of them), but again, it's a rumour site... you've got to expect BS.


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

Are people jumping to this conclusion because of the 9th ed rumor? If 9th ed is coming out this summer, then that means a few armies won't be brought up to speed in the time between now and then. 

I don't understand the logic behind ditching armies, surely the cost of making them is dwarfed by what they earn from players that play them.


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## Asamodai (Oct 19, 2008)

I find this very hard to believe. Wood Elves were the 'parting shot' in WD a couple of issues back which usually means something good is happening to them, not that they're being wiped from existence.


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## Chosen of Malal (Nov 5, 2012)

If they do anything they'll roll armies back into one book, like Khemri and VC into Undead, and BoC back into Chaos, so on and so forth.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

BT was essentially Squatted, so dont act so surprised when it happens again.


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## revilo44 (Sep 17, 2010)

d3m01iti0n said:


> BT was essentially Squatted, so dont act so surprised when it happens again.



No they were not. Yes it may not be the same army you can make before. But the game moves on.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

revilo44 said:


> Yes it may not be the same army you can make before.


So what youre trying to say is that that the army I used to play no longer exists? And here I was, expecting arguments :good:


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Chosen of Malal said:


> If they do anything they'll roll armies back into one book, like Khemri and VC into Undead, and BoC back into Chaos, so on and so forth.


If anything bears out, I think this is it. While GW have been expanding the miniatures lines/armies, it's possible they intend on retrenching. Which to be fair is a tried and true businesses practice. Get a good idea (or seemingly good idea) expand and follow it. Keep going until it is no longer useful, back off until you address in the safe zone again. 

Many business do this. They pursue a new operating procedure following their projections, which won't be totally accurate. They may over shoot the sweet spot, then need to regroup and try again.

GW has done this before. Think GW stores in the USA. They expanded too quickly and in the wrong places. Lost money. Closed stores. Waited a few years and tried again.

If there is any truth to this, GW's projections indicate that they pushed too hard, made too many distinct armies and need to consolidate them. Ditto with regional management structures.

I recommend:
Grain of salt + skepticism + patience.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Getting gibberish rules writers is not. Stocl decreases show that. I'll poat a better response when I am off my phone.


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## whiplash308 (Jan 14, 2009)

I don't know about this. :/
When someone thinks "Warhammer Fantasy Battles", what do people usually think? First thing that comes to my head is loads of regiments of knights on horseback, elves of various realms, and sorcery. 

If they decide to put Bretonnia as part of the Empire for example, I'm not quite sure what to think. If they decide to scrap Bretonnia entirely, basically GW has said "We want to throw away an army from the olden days of WFB". Same thing with Wood Elves, and hell even Tomb Kings. That's like saying the NBA wants to delete the Miami Heat, Memphis Grizzlies, Toronto Raptors and LA Lakers "just because". That's the way I see it.

If such a thing ends up turning out, there goes two of my favorite armies (Brets and WElves).

Like yeah, fair enough that 40k is the dominant game and model range they possess, but still. Eliminating parts of their other game which is just as cool is absolutely bizarre. Yeah okay take this with about a vat filled with salt, but gah. This terrifies me a little bit.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

This makes no sense, why kill off a large number of armies, the store closings.... to be honest I don't particularly care because I have not and chances are never can go to Germany, but on a serious note...really all stores, either GW products are being blocked or there is so few Germans/ playing that they can't keep the stores open.

The hobit stuff wouldn't that end up costing them more/business?

The entire post seems to suggest GW is on it's last leg.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

whiplash308 said:


> Like yeah, fair enough that 40k is the dominant game and model range they possess, but still. Eliminating parts of their other game which is just as cool is absolutely bizarre. Yeah okay take this with about a vat filled with salt, but gah. This terrifies me a little bit.


That really does depend on what part of the world you look at. In certain countries like the US and UK, 40K is dominant. It was always the case however that in France, Italy and much of Europe WHF was the dominant game (this going by the sales figures we were shown each year internally). 

This rumour started purely as a kneejerk reaction to the stock market price fall. It has no real bearing on actual reality...


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

"I don't know which is worse: the website saying Wood Elves, Tomb Kings, Beastmen, and Bretonnians are being discontinued or the people believing it. Calm down folks. According to our pretty damn reliable source Wood Elves are just around the corner. Enjoy your weekend. 
-Rik"

-40k Radio FB post


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

The Hobbit, terrible though it is for GW (as far as I know), has just had the second film based in and around Mirkwood with the reappearance of many fans' favourite character from Lord of the Rings, who is a Wood Elf, and GW will supposedly discontinue Wood Elves.

GW aren't stupid enough to throw away that opportunity.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Yes, they are.

THey fucked the poster boys up (SM) so much that they actually lost sales on it. They had the two base armies that introduce the game to newcomers being the weakest of the current game (with the exception of Baledrakes; which essentially turns into here's £200 to buy yourself a basic competing force, but oh wait, you can't actually compete, you need either Meta-countering Daemons, or Tau/Dar, El/Tau, Tau, or Eldar, or some variant thereof to even compete against Riptides with rerolls etc, so here's more money.

Newcomers see they're getting pounded, so are selling their stuff on eBay, so not only is it depriving the hobby of its newcomers (which are its primary income, whether for new armies or for complete newcomers), which costs the company money, but those who bought the kits are now selling them on the cheap for other gamers.

The cost of codexes is probably an easier way around this. 

Codexes are too expensive. So people upload them onto the internet. People download them. 

Codexes increase in price to account for pirating. Less people are willing to pay for something that's of poor quality (and with terrible rules to boot). They download them.

Codexes increase in price... etc. etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

The strongest armies should be those in the core game box. 4th edition, outside of Eldar, Nid Monster Mashes and Lasplas Marine hordes were the game winners.

Games Workshops *we are a model company first* is fucking over their profits. They need to get down into the nitty gritty, and stop caring about creating internally balanced rules (because they fucking suck), and moving onto externally balanced, with beta testing and running it by top tournament players and the internet.

If the internet can come up with broken combinations like Pun-Pun from D+D (think a character with near infinite stats, and every special rule in the game, and if you can think of a way to kill him he automatically knows about it, and teleports back into the past to know about that method, fix it, and then kill you so that hopefully no-one knows about it), and Leafblower, and Lashprince, and Jetseer Lists, and Rhno Parking lots, then withn a few months of playtesting, you have yourself a release that's effective.

Give away the rules, people should be able to play the game without needing to buy additional rulebooks on top of the core game. Charge suitable prices for the models. By going effectively 4x above inflation, they are pricing themselves out of sales, especially with millions of cheap competitors setting themselves up, the lack of competitive support (in both tourny organisation, recognition, and basic competitive PvP rulesets), and GW stores now being turned into creches (and forcing people who purchase the cheaper competitors to play elsewhere) in favour of LGS with gaming rooms...

Eh, syntax, "GamesWorkshop_HasClue_flag = false"


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Alright I did a little "Research" and found another way to interpet these rumors:

First these armies are not beingt squatted but instead are being moved to direct order only (sort of like how sister of battle have been now).

As for Germany stores closing. Gw is simply looking for better locations and will be reopening new stores there (hence why they are still hiring in Germany).


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## Mokuren (Mar 29, 2011)

Necrosis said:


> First these armies are not beingt squatted but instead are being moved to direct order only (sort of like how sister of battle have been now).


So, a softsquat.

Sisters of Battle have essentially been squatted. Yes, they have an eCodex and you can still order their models from them but, from GW's standpoint, they've been squatted. Think about it:



Their codex is digital, so they don't have to print it and keep it in stock
Their models are direct order only, and we know for a fact that they melt metal to either make other models or sell it. This too means they have to keep an absolute minimum of stock for the few balls to the walls insane people who actually buy them fresh, and if it runs out they'll just print a new batch with absolute minimum figures just to be safe.
Sisters have been put in a condition where they don't cost GW anything, and whether they live or die is absolutely irrelevant to them. They're going to benefit in the measly off-chance someone completely out of his mind actually places an order, but they don't care if they don't because they're not losing anything.

It would make sense of them to do the same to other armies: if they start announcing digital for fantasy, you can know for sure the armies getting a digital only army book are not seeing their model range updated and are moving to direct order only, it's the most cost effective thing they can do and seeing how their stocks fell nearly 30% in one day they're as desperate as they can get to cut even more costs.


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## NoHeresyOnlyTruth (Apr 20, 2010)

I have been playing fantasy for... I don't know maybe 10+ years now and found this site maybe 4 or 5 years ago "didn't even know it was a game til about 6 years ago.

Every 6 months the internet goes off on GW report and people say this is the end this time my god I am 27 I lived through 3 apocalypse's and GW going out of buisness 8-10 times. People just think since it is the net alot of people may read it and their opinion matters and they complain alot. Truth is the same people on here bitchin where the same people writing in bitchin they are not squating any armies and they where re-structuring everything which probably cost alot, not to mention switching to new materiel and such. If SoB never got squated they not squating anyone "except for BT which no one seems to have noticed"

Also why do people keep making up random rumors about how and why GW lost money. I see a graph that goes up and down and my mathmatic genious says it is because I got pissed off around that same date lol.


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

I would listen to what 40k Radio posted instead of jumping to conclusions.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

My friends and I discussed this today and they said perhaps it's just the prempetive strike of merging armies into one book, for example beastmen are found in the chaos warriors book instead of their own individual book, wood elves join high elves in a elf book, tomb kings join vampire counts in an undead book and bretonnians join the empire in a human book


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Having just returned from Bremen I can confirm that this is 99% codswallop and 1% fact (and i'm being generous here),
as I understand there are changes coming to GW Germany as well other continental European stores,
it sounds like it's all head officey changes 


The deleted armies bullcrap comes from rumours I (amongst others) posted about 18 months plus back about the possibility of combined fantasy armybooks to save on money and entice fantasy fans to buy more models.
so again
1+1 = 42


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## Anubite (Feb 21, 2011)

seems like a bullreport as gw stock is on up and up


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Bindi Baji said:


> 1+1 = 42


Wait....YOU SOLVED IT! You solved my formula YOU ARE A GENIUS!


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

d3m01iti0n said:


> So what youre trying to say is that that the army I used to play no longer exists? And here I was, expecting arguments :good:


I'm pretty certain Black templers have not been squated. For a start they are mentioned in the Space Marine Codex and have thier own very specific rules. Squats have no codex are not mentioned and have no official viable way of being used in the game without using another armies codex.

Squats cannot be bought from GW at all. Black Templars have a number of specific models available fro GW online http://search.games-workshop.com/search?locale=gb&keywords=black+templers

Not quite the same as the previous incarnation but certainly not squated.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

humakt said:


> I'm pretty certain Black templers have not been squated. For a start they are mentioned in the Space Marine Codex and have thier own very specific rules. Squats have no codex are not mentioned and have no official viable way of being used in the game without using another armies codex.
> 
> Squats cannot be bought from GW at all. Black Templars have a number of specific models available fro GW online http://search.games-workshop.com/search?locale=gb&keywords=black+templers
> 
> Not quite the same as the previous incarnation but certainly not squated.


That won't quell the NerdRage though :wink:


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

I did say 'essentially' Squatted, not fully squatted. The army I played is dead and gone; rather than expanded ala BA or DA they are now a footnote in C:SM with the bare minimum of effort made to keep their personality. As this thread is regarding WHF armies being squatted/rolled this is what those players can expect if it happens.

As far as 'nerd rage' is concerned, there is nothing more nerdy than a tabletop gaming site so I suspect Im in the right place to post such opinions.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Yeah. Because who cares about over exaggeration to prove your point, hey?

Edit; what is so wrong about the C:SM for Black Templars? Still confused, they've barely changed.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Tawa said:


> That won't quell the NerdRage though :wink:


No, it's only the loss of virginity that can do this...............


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Bindi Baji said:


> No, it's only the loss of virginity that can do this...............


Hmm.
Buy the new spess mehreenz kits, or get laid.


Imma needz moar glew!!! :shout:


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## Ddraig Cymry (Dec 30, 2012)

I've heard it's just the German HQ that's going to be closed/moved and stores will remain open. As for the armies I seriously doubt they'd do that, especially if some of those armies have already been updated.

Anymore when I get on Heresy or even /tg/ I think of a scene where I hear 'Can't Smile Without You' plays while the world burns behind me and people argue over such important things like 'Is Games Workshop going to go belly up?' (It's not that easy for a company to go under, and they aren't in a bad place right now), 'Is this the end of Tyranids?' (I've seen a dozen threads like this on /tg/ in the past two weeks, all crap), and 'Why does Games Workshop hate us?' (They don't). But you know, as stupid as it gets, I couldn't imagine it any other way.

Stay calm people, your hobby's going to be fine :good:


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Ddraig Cymry said:


> I've heard it's just the German HQ that's going to be closed/moved and stores will remain open.


That's pretty much what I was told at the weekend, 
one or two stores may close across continental Europe but that's about as bad as it'll get.

And even in comedy situations there is never a bad enough situation for bringing out Manilow,
shame on you


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

You know, I actually quite like that song because of Hellboy :laugh:


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## Ddraig Cymry (Dec 30, 2012)

Bindi Baji said:


> And even in comedy situations there is never a bad enough situation for bringing out Manilow,
> shame on you


:wink:



Tawa said:


> You know, I actually quite like that song because of Hellboy


Pretty much


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Vaz said:


> Yeah. Because who cares about over exaggeration to prove your point, hey?
> 
> Edit; what is so wrong about the C:SM for Black Templars? Still confused, they've barely changed.


Its funny, I re-read my posts to see if I overstepped my boundaries. Looks like I summed up the squat/roll situation for any army in a reasonable fashion. Phew, was worried for a second. 

As far as the edit is concerned, I understand its a little difficult to grasp for players who have little to no experience with playing the army, and that is of course perfectly understandable. I know little to nothing about Wood Elves or any other WFB armies, so of course I will not argue with those guys if the time comes. 

So once again since you asked, I can only speak on my own experiences on the subject, and that is first and foremost a complete contradiction and rewriting of the fluff. This encompasses both the 4th edition army book and several novels outlining army structure and codex adherence. Complete disregard of the Codex Astartes became "they own their own edited copy of the Codex". A blind and almost idiotic hatred of pskers is now "BT lost their psykers when the first company split from IF, but they hope to get them back one day". Their entire ruleset has been cut down to a Codex chapter with blob squads and two Chapter Traits. This means a cutting of Vows (army-wide USRs you could choose to list tailor), Righteous/Unmatched Zeal (footslog assistance), Terminator dual heavy loadout, purchasable USRs for PA/TDA Sword Brethren, various wargear (Holy Hand Grenade. Adamantine Mantle for EW, Terminator Honors for extra attack, Servitors for Chaplains, etc etc etc). Im sure Im forgetting a few things but there are plenty of in depth lists out there if you wish to review the extent of the changes.



So...if youre playing Wood Elves, or Beastmen, or Squats, or whoever......you didnt JUST get into that army for the color scheme or models. Good bet you are a fan of the fluff and the playstyle of the army. If you lose those characteristics then what is the point? Short and simple. Im not a fan of WFB but I am very worried for those fans a move like this could affect. No reason to get pissy with me; I know how it feels and Im sticking up for these people.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Tawa said:


> You know, I actually quite like that song


Outside, now.............


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Yes darling?


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

He writes the songs the whole world sings. You simply cannot argue with that kind of street cred.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

d3m01iti0n said:


> So once again since you asked, I can only speak on my own experiences on the subject, and that is first and foremost a complete contradiction and rewriting of the fluff. This encompasses both the 4th edition army book and several novels outlining army structure and codex adherence. Complete disregard of the Codex Astartes became "they own their own edited copy of the Codex". A blind and almost idiotic hatred of pskers is now "BT lost their psykers when the first company split from IF, but they hope to get them back one day".


So your army is a Black Templar Crusade that's been split off from Chapter Command and has developed a deep and abiding hatred for Psykers, and have fallen back to unorthodox tactics to compensate for their lack of communication with the Imperium at large. Sorted.



d3m01iti0n said:


> Their entire ruleset has been cut down to a Codex chapter with blob squads and two Chapter Traits.


Which they essentially were before - sure, they had some bells and whistles, but they were essentially melee Space Marines with some extra gimmicks and no access to a lot of good stuff Marines had.



d3m01iti0n said:


> This means a cutting of Vows (army-wide USRs you could choose to list tailor),


Realistically, you only took one of them anyway (Accept Any Challenge, _maybe_ Suffer Not the Unclean if you were kooky and fought a lot of Eldar).



d3m01iti0n said:


> Righteous/Unmatched Zeal (footslog assistance)


But footslogging Marines aren't viable in the edition of Riptides and Heldrakes, so it doesn't matter if you had kooky run-but-not-a-run that pulled you off the objectives, making you lose the game.



d3m01iti0n said:


> Terminator dual heavy loadout, purchasable USRs for PA/TDA Sword Brethren, various wargear (Holy Hand Grenade. Adamantine Mantle for EW, Terminator Honors for extra attack, Servitors for Chaplains, etc etc etc).


Yeah, Terminators lost dual heavies, but you gained Centurions, who are essentially Heavy Weapon Terminators (and can be modelled as such if you really want - a Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher and a big base isn't much smaller than a Centurion) - Sword Brethren are now Honour Guard and therefore a really good unit, and while you lost various bits of wargear, you gained access to the entire Marines codex (Flyers, Thunderfires, tanks that aren't overpriced and bad, Bikers, etc.)

Black Templars lost some stuff that 1% of people used or cared about, and gained an entire codex-worth of new stuff.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Are you Mat Ward or Robin Cruddance? I mean, all Im getting from you is that youre justifying the roll with alternative fluff and modelling options. I was addressing the things that 100% of BT players used and cared about, and had a HUGE potential for expansion ala BA and DA. Both armies were Codex Astartes Plus, and became more diverse through their updated books. BT was sitting on that threshold and got roped back in. So screw it, reign everybody in right?

Anyways back on topic since everybody keeps dragging out a sentence or two I said earlier for an adequate comparison......if WFB armies get squatted and/or rolled, is this how the fanbase is going to treat them? Me personally, I hope the best for every army and customer out there. Your codex should NOT suck, your models should get updated, you should get what you want out of the hobby. What is the benefit in shitting on these people when their investment is no longer fun? Honestly, Id love to know the thought process behind that kind of treatment within the fanbase, because it really is a shame to see.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I am honestly surprised they haven't melded ALL of the Power armor into one book.

With supplements it wouldn't surprise me if they go that route next Ed. If they roll up a bunch of WFB armies expect it to happen in 40k next.


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## unixknight (Jul 26, 2010)

scscofield said:


> I am honestly surprised they haven't melded ALL of the Power armor into one book.


See, this is what I'm sayin'. My wife plays Blood Angels and as I look through her codex I'm not seeing what differentiates them from other marine chapters that's so extensive that they couldn't get rolled as well. Keep in mind they used to share a codex with the Dark Angels anyway. I'm a Black Templars player and even I can see that merging them with the Space Marines codex made sense. Space Wolves are unique-ish but let's be honest: The only reason they have their own codex is because enough people liked the fluff and style that it made financial sense to issue a separate codex and models. It's not like there's some kind of objective standard for when a chapter's fluff becomes different enough to justify splitting them off into their own book.

I have 2 WFB armies: Beastmen and Bretonnia. (Yes, I'm a glutton for punishment.) So this matters to me. Honestly, having Bretonnia rolled into Empire makes sense, and with all the digital content BL has been spewing out lately, It's VERY easy to imagine Bretonnia becoming a digital supplement to the current Empire book. Same goes for Beastmen and Warriors of Chaos. I can even see Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts merging (after all, they once shared the same army book too.) And Wood Elves... merging with High Elves makes sense and would make Wood Elf players competitive again. (How much sense does it make that the elf faction that's all about high speed light strikes is the slowest of all elves?) Perhaps these would happen as digital edition supplements to the associated army books.

Honestly, I'd be okay with that.

The only thing is this doesn't really explain the shrinking of the model range... unless they're looking to replace it with something a little harder for 3rd party mini companies to replicate. Let's be honest: the design of Bretonnian knights are very much like medieval high period knights and can't be copyrighted.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Are you Mat Ward or Robin Cruddance? I mean, all Im getting from you is that youre justifying the roll with alternative fluff and modelling options. I was addressing the things that 100% of BT players used and cared about, and had a HUGE potential for expansion ala BA and DA. Both armies were Codex Astartes Plus, and became more diverse through their updated books. BT was sitting on that threshold and got roped back in. So screw it, reign everybody in right?
> 
> Anyways back on topic since everybody keeps dragging out a sentence or two I said earlier for an adequate comparison......if WFB armies get squatted and/or rolled, is this how the fanbase is going to treat them? Me personally, I hope the best for every army and customer out there. Your codex should NOT suck, your models should get updated, you should get what you want out of the hobby. What is the benefit in shitting on these people when their investment is no longer fun? Honestly, Id love to know the thought process behind that kind of treatment within the fanbase, because it really is a shame to see.


I can sympathize with you but this just my thought on the subject.

The only diff i see with comparing BT against say BA and DA is that BT was not an original founding legion as it was split off from the Imperial Fists, the others are original founding legions and in that deserve their own codex, BT's don't. However they should release Codex: Imperial Fists with both Black Templars and Crimson Fists, that would solve the issue nicely. I think?


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## Chosen of Malal (Nov 5, 2012)

Why are we letting this turn into the age old,"there shouldn't be more than one power armor codex!" rant? BA, DA and SW all have their codex, all other chapters have the marine codex, supplements come out. There is absolutely no reason to be arguing about this,"But Chosen, they rolled back my BT!" who cares?! They needed to be rolled back, they weren't flying off the shelves. People arguing over this just makes CSM players angry and it becomes pointless to continue on with it, what's done is done, if none of the CSM legions deserve a dedicated codex then BT certainly don't, and that can be said for ever marine chapter. Nut up, get over it, and get the thread back on topic, which had nothing to do with 40k or SM. "Chosen, you're being to mean!" suck it up and get over it! Bitch about TK, BoC, Bretts and WE, make a thread to bitch about BT. /endrant


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Tawa said:


> Yes darling?


and I hope you now see the error of your ways........



d3m01iti0n said:


> if WFB armies get squatted and/or rolled, is this how the fanbase is going to treat them?


They aren't and BT weren't either, neither are the nazis about to discover time travel and re-invade europe or fish learn how to use typewriters..............




Chosen of Malal said:


> Why are we letting this turn into the age old,"there shouldn't be more than one power armor codex!" rant?


To be fair it seems quite civilised,
we should probably start stirring things up a little to be honest.....................

They should probably squat all Space Marines and make Scout's the only viable troop option and Land Raiders should be made to replace Rhinos, plus Imperial Guard should only be a viable option if they have blue trousers and carry pineapples


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

scscofield said:


> I am honestly surprised they haven't melded ALL of the Power armor into one book.


You mean there's a Space Marine list outside of Legion Crusade?


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Achaylus72 said:


> However they should release Codex: Imperial Fists with both Black Templars and Crimson Fists, that would solve the issue nicely. I think?


Except that the IF and CF are vanilla flavoured chapters as it stands. 



Bindi Baji said:


> and I hope you now see the error of your ways........


It burns when I pee..... :shok:





Bindi Baji said:


> They aren't and BT weren't either, neither are the nazis about to discover time travel and re-invade europe or fish learn how to use typewriters..............


NEIN! NEIN! NEIN! Mein sekretary is eine haibut!


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Tawa said:


> Except that the IF and CF are vanilla flavoured chapters as it stands.


Not any more, they are about to get flashy new codexes (using sticky backed plastic, felt tips, card and for some strange reason an empty washing up bottle)



Tawa said:


> It burns when I pee..... :shok:


But that's the best part :cray:



Tawa said:


> NEIN! NEIN! NEIN! Mein sekretary is eine halibut!


sounds a bit fishy to me


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Bindi Baji said:


> Not any more, they are about to get flashy new codexes (using sticky backed plastic, felt tips, card and for some strange reason an empty washing up bottle)


Awesome. They should get a Blue Templar Badge for that!


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)




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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

The only rolling together of army books I could envisage is Empire and Bretonians, but that's only based on them being human and both having knights.

Other races I just can't see happening personally.


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## dragonkingofthestars (May 3, 2010)

The brets theme is "King Arthurian French or British we can't make up are mind." the empire is "30 year war with magic and more grim dark", atheistically a world of difference between the gritty Landsknecht and noble shining knights in full plate.

mechanically the difference between the knights, (lance formation VS full plate), the infantry (peasants VS state troopers) and the whole pray to the lady thing' that the Bretonians have no right to be inter merged with the Empire into a single book.

it would be a massive book that would need two whole sets of rules, one empire and one breton, restrictions on what units you can take, (Brets can't take hand guns and Empire can't take long bows), commanders, monsters, war machines, and more I can't even think of why this is even considered by anyone to be likely.

there is NOTHING these two arms have in common, not theme, nor mechanics, nor even in basic unit selections, ok correction, they can both have spear men, but that's about it. even there calvary are wildly different thanks to the added advantage the Lance gives as Empires knightly orders. Other then the fact there both human nations theirs nothing to combine. We have three types of elves running around, should we consolidate them into a single book? to quote a most peeved Empire officer *Nein! und mir einige Schnitzel du dumme, dumme Menschen!* there is no reason at all this should be either considered.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)




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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

dragonkingofthestars said:


> The brets theme is "King Arthurian French or British we can't make up are mind." the empire is "30 year war with magic and more grim dark", atheistically a world of difference between the gritty Landsknecht and noble shining knights in full plate.
> 
> mechanically the difference between the knights, (lance formation VS full plate), the infantry (peasants VS state troopers) and the whole pray to the lady thing' that the Bretonians have no right to be inter merged with the Empire into a single book.
> 
> ...


Not only that but Brets don't have the "Dogs of War" rule as they don't believe in hiring anyone do do their fighting for them.

Listen as far as i am concerned take a tonne of salt, Brets will not be combined with Empire. Anyway Germans and French hate each other for this to work.

Give me Bretonnia or give me death.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

You mean you don't want a copy of the brand new Warhammer Armies: Empire of Bretonnia....?


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

I can see angels of death style books being possible,
bretons and wood elves in one and warriors of chaos and beastmen would also fit together.
I have no idea if the idea of combined fantasy books is going to still happen or if it's just one of those ideas that go nowhere


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

WoC + Beastmen + Daemons would be a nifty "all in one" book, only because I play one of those armies, but the other two are interesting to me. BUT, it would only be interesting as a combined army book if there was some relevance, as in: You had the WoC section, the Daemons section, and the Beastmen section, then some appropriate cross over info, benefits to the combination of armies rather than just having the thing be a package deal.

And, from a business standpoint, I THINK the mark up on two or three separate books would be more profitable than the mark up on one big book, unless they jacked the price up for the one big book a lot(which they could do, but they wouldn't want to pull an Icarus). But I honestly don't know.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Einherjar667 said:


> WoC + Beastmen + Daemons would be a nifty "all in one" book, only because I play one of those armies, but the other two are interesting to me. BUT, it would only be interesting as a combined army book if there was some relevance, as in: You had the WoC section, the Daemons section, and the Beastmen section, then some appropriate cross over info, benefits to the combination of armies rather than just having the thing be a package deal.
> 
> And, from a business standpoint, I THINK the mark up on two or three separate books would be more profitable than the mark up on one big book, unless they jacked the price up for the one big book a lot(which they could do, but they wouldn't want to pull an Icarus). But I honestly don't know.


while daemons would be a natural fit, the fact they fit in with 40k as well, would, imo mean they would be less likely then the other two


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

This smells of intermet over reaction to something GW has done over and over again for years, GW shops are generally small places with only a set amount of shelf space, but GW produce several totally new kits every month, new kits also sell better than old kits, so if you do the maths it doesnt take long to show that the most likely products to get moved to direct only are the ranges who sell the least and historically the ones that sell the least are generally the ones most in need of an update.
So anything that moves a range to direct only means the Internet over reacts to what is simply GW making space in stores that have none available.

Though considering how bloated some of the ranges are (empire , chaos and orcs for example) they really could do with squatting a few units in thr warhammer range to make room for smaller less popular armies getting new toy's, will see what dwarves get this time around as an indicator


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Bindi Baji said:


> I can see angels of death style books being possible,
> *bretons and wood elves in one* and warriors of chaos and beastmen would also fit together.
> I have no idea if the idea of combined fantasy books is going to still happen or if it's just one of those ideas that go nowhere


Fuck right off Bindi :angry:

Eh, I'd do anything to see Wood Elves moved to Neutral alongside Khemri and Ogres. The WE fight against anything which threatens their homeland. We've got black and white elves, lets have actual grey.

Actually, fuck that, I'd rather this whole "order" and "disorder" bullshit went away.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Fuck right off Bindi :angry:
> 
> Eh, I'd do anything to see Wood Elves moved to Neutral alongside Khemri and Ogres. The WE fight against anything which threatens their homeland. We've got black and white elves, lets have actual grey.
> 
> Actually, fuck that, I'd rather this whole "order" and "disorder" bullshit went away.


oh dear :angel:

It's just an opinion, my knowledge of wood elves isn't great (I've never played as, or against them or read an armybook)- it's just going on what I have heard of them


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

=(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

How about if the next WE armybook was called "Woody shades of Grey"
would that cheer you up? :grin:


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Vaz said:


> Actually, fuck that, I'd rather this whole "order" and "disorder" bullshit went away.


At least 40k has the benefit that everybody is a bastard in one way or another.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

humakt said:


> At least 40k has the benefit that everybody is a bastard in one way or another.


well thats not strictly true, the Eldar are the true good guys in the 40k universe


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> well thats not strictly true, the Eldar are the true good guys in the 40k universe


Oh no! They are as bad as the Imperium. They would willingly sacrifice any of the younger races to further their own ends. What are 1000 mon kie lives compared to the soul of even the least of the Eldar?

Probably only Tau could claim to be the side of good, but their enforced 'for the greater good' on any planet they happen upon means they are really just an imperialistic dictatorship with the etherals at the head of the ship.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

There is nothing even slightly bad about the 'Nids, they are just a little peckish


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

humakt said:


> Oh no! They are as bad as the Imperium. They would willingly sacrifice any of the younger races to further their own ends. What are 1000 mon kie lives compared to the soul of even the least of the Eldar?
> 
> Probably only Tau could claim to be the side of good, but their enforced 'for the greater good' on any planet they happen upon means they are really just an imperialistic dictatorship with the etherals at the head of the ship.


What about the Farsight Enclaves? They're the Tau without the creepy Ethereals, and no Greater Good ideology. I'd say FE is probably one of the goodest factions in the 40k universe.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Bindi Baji said:


> There is nothing even slightly bad about the 'Nids, they are just a little peckish


They were only looking for love..... :cray:


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## nevynxxx (Dec 27, 2011)

Einherjar667 said:


> What about the Farsight Enclaves? They're the Tau without the creepy Ethereals, and no Greater Good ideology. I'd say FE is probably one of the goodest factions in the 40k universe.


If you ignore the part where Farsight is almost certainly being controlled by a daemon possessed weapon, yes!


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

nevynxxx said:


> If you ignore the part where Farsight is almost certainly being controlled by a daemon possessed weapon, yes!


It's really not that big of a deal. We've all been possessed by a daemon possessed weapon at one point or another


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## Veteran Sergeant (May 17, 2012)

MidnightSun said:


> I'm not surprised, because it's bullshit. GW have said time and time again that they're not going to remove any armies the way they removed Squats again, because the community backlash was so strong. And that was with one, not even widely played army. To remove one 8th edition, popular book, and two that people have been baying for for four years? No.


It shouldn't be called "Squatting". That's an outdated and mis-used term.


This is "Sistering". 

They aren't going to remove those armies from the game. [If it happens] They're just going to stop producing new models and books for them most likely.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

nevynxxx said:


> If you ignore the part where Farsight is almost certainly being controlled by a daemon possessed weapon, yes!


Tau are practically nulls, so I don't see how a demon could hold much sway over him.


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## nevynxxx (Dec 27, 2011)

Khorne's Fist said:


> Tau are practically nulls, so I don't see how a demon could hold much sway over him.


In that case, read Farsight's entry in the codex. He goes on a mission, finds a sword, starts acting weird, goes against Ethereals. It's a *very* clear progression.


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

nevynxxx said:


> In that case, read Farsight's entry in the codex. He goes on a mission, finds a sword, starts acting weird, goes against Ethereals. It's a *very* clear progression.


But at the same time, he discovers that the existence of chaos was being hidden from the Tau people and is outraged.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

nevynxxx said:


> In that case, read Farsight's entry in the codex. He goes on a mission, finds a sword, starts acting weird, goes against Ethereals. It's a *very* clear progression.


Maybe he discovered he was Gladiusexual


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

nevynxxx said:


> In that case, read Farsight's entry in the codex. He goes on a mission, finds a sword, starts acting weird, goes against Ethereals. It's a *very* clear progression.


The Dawn Blade is definitely unusual, but I'm pretty sure it's not a Daemon Weapon;

_'Unbeknownst to Farsight, the ancient sword has a dark secret. Its blade is made from chronophagic alloys - whenever a wielder cuts a life short with it, the natural span that he stole from his victim is added to the wielder's own. This has allowed O'Shovah to live for almost three centuries. Though he has suspicions that it is the Dawn Blade that has prolonged his lifespan to such a degree, if Farsight ever found out the horrible truth, he would likely end his own life in ritual suicide then and there.'_ - Farsight Enclaves



Veteran Sergeant said:


> It shouldn't be called "Squatting". That's an outdated and mis-used term.
> 
> 
> This is "Sistering".
> ...


Call it what you like, I still think it's false. Tomb Kings sell well and have an 8th edition army book, they're not just going to stop making them.

If VC and TK get rolled back into Undead, but that book is essentially just a synchronization of updates for VC and TK (and containing an army list for each), then maybe I can see it. Same with Hordes of Chaos.

But they won't just reduce TK to a couple of units in the Vampire book.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

nevynxxx said:


> In that case, read Farsight's entry in the codex. He goes on a mission, finds a sword, starts acting weird, goes against Ethereals. It's a *very* clear progression.


I've read both entries in the codex and the supplement, and yes, there is definitely something dodgy going on with the sword, but while it may boost him physically, I don't think it can influence his actions. The fact he strayed from the word of the Ethereals has more to do with the fact he had no contact with them after they were all killed in battle, and whatever glamour they hold over ordinary Tau wore off, opening his eyes to the truth.

But this is a discussion for another thread.


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## Veteran Sergeant (May 17, 2012)

MidnightSun said:


> Call it what you like, I still think it's false. Tomb Kings sell well and have an 8th edition army book, they're not just going to stop making them.


Oh, I have no opinion either way. I haven't played Fantasy in like 15 years and have no intention of returning (despite how awesome my snotling-infested Orc army was).

I'm just saying that the term Squatting isn't really correct in modern context. Squats were erased from the game, and then all but erased from the _setting_, lol. 

I completely agree that Games Workshop will (probably) never "Squat" another army. 

That's why I use the term "Sistering" for this. Sisters of Battle are a great example. They haven't gotten a new GW model in 10 years, and their last two books were "low-to-zero cost" ventures. The first one was published in White Dwarf (which already gets printed anyway) and the latest one is e-book only (which means no printing, delivery, or carrying costs). It's the easiest working scenario for GW. They are doing a customer service to their fans by making sure their already-purchased product remains usable. But at the same time they can cut costs by not investing more money in a product they're technically no longer supporting.

_If_ Fantasy gets rolled back, you'll probably see these armies getting the Sisters treatment, where every few years they get an e-book release to keep the models usable.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Veteran Sergeant said:


> Oh, I have no opinion either way. I haven't played Fantasy in like 15 years and have no intention of returning (despite how awesome my snotling-infested Orc army was).
> 
> I'm just saying that the term Squatting isn't really correct in modern context. Squats were erased from the game, and then all but erased from the _setting_, lol.
> 
> ...


Fair enough. Frankly, I don't care either - I don't like Fantasy, and even if they start wrapping up armies into DLC Army Books and no new releases, I play Ogres, and they only way they're getting put into a book with someone else is if they release a single book for all the armies.


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## nevynxxx (Dec 27, 2011)

MidnightSun said:


> The Dawn Blade is definitely unusual, but I'm pretty sure it's not a Daemon Weapon;
> 
> 'Unbeknownst to Farsight, the ancient sword has a dark secret. Its blade is made from chronophagic alloys - whenever a wielder cuts a life short with it, the natural span that he stole from his victim is added to the wielder's own. This has allowed O'Shovah to live for almost three centuries. Though he has suspicions that it is the Dawn Blade that has prolonged his lifespan to such a degree, if Farsight ever found out the horrible truth, he would likely end his own life in ritual suicide then and there.' - Farsight Enclaves


Ahh, not read the enclaves book yet, that does change the inflection a bit doesn't it?


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## Chosen of Malal (Nov 5, 2012)

@Midnight: Actually, they could wrap ogres up into a book, but it would require them to bring Chaos Dwarves over from Forgeworld.


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