# Scouts + Shotguns?



## Stormbolter88 (Dec 18, 2007)

In real life, I enjoy shooting shotguns, I own three of them. But, in 40K they don't seem very good. I would like to equip some of my Space Marine Scouts with shotguns. Tell me, does anyone else give their scouts shotguns and if so how do you best use the shotgun scout unit?


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## Blackhiker (Dec 28, 2007)

Shotguns are a very lousy weapon in 40K I have never used or seen another army use shotguns ever. Somebody might use them, but I see most other weapons as an improvement over a shotgun. it would esentially be equiping your scouts with shorter range lasguns.


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## angels of fire (Dec 4, 2007)

Yeah they pretty much stink. You could make up your own rules with your oppenents consent of course.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

scouts with combat knives and a bolt pistol are much better. the only advantage to a shottie is that its assualt 2, so say if a scout unit were deepstriking it might be advantageous to take them. however, the S3 AP- really makes them the wrong choice in nearly every situation.


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

Shotguns are much better for the guard however, what with them being basically an assault 2 lasgun with short range. The trade off is more fair when your guns are rubbish nyway, sniff.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

use the scouts in necromunda where shotguns are awesome they have very little place on the battlefield


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## Stormbolter88 (Dec 18, 2007)

Hmm if I were to try to alter the rules for shotguns so they were worth playing I think I would have shotguns always hit on 2+ when firing buckshot, or they could choose to fire anti-armor slugs, which would be AP 3. The short range would still be bad, but I think they'd be playable.


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## Leaf (Feb 8, 2008)

Shotguns in general are specialized weapon. They are best at close range They only have a Effective Range of 75 meters. If you take a M16 they have the range of 500 meters. I think 40k Has done a good job in limiting the shot gun although I think it should have some more knock down power.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Just wait until the new Marine Codex. There's a trend in the Dark Angel and Blood Angel rules where shotgun Strength is going up by 1. They're far more useful at that point.

Katie D


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## The Red Thirst (Dec 11, 2007)

Yeah In the blood angel codex it says strength 4 in the summary... A unit of 10 scouts assaulting in the first turn all with S4 two times before combat would be nice.


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## Stormbolter88 (Dec 18, 2007)

Leaf said:


> Shotguns in general are specialized weapon. They are best at close range They only have a Effective Range of 75 meters. If you take a M16 they have the range of 500 meters. I think 40k Has done a good job in limiting the shot gun although I think it should have some more knock down power.


Yes they did an awesome job. I think I will write them a letter of thanks for not making M-16s feel inadequate and slighted.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I'm sort of the black sheep on this subject. I keep a squad of ten scouts with shotguns sitting around, mostly because they look cool, but also because occasionally, they're extremely useful. Against armies with a lot of lightly armoured T3 models (Tyranids, Guardsmen, Eldar) shotguns do their damage through volume of dice. It takes a little skill to use the unit well, but getting 20 shots, even at S3 (which wound the aforementioned on 4's, which isn't bad really) and following up with another 20 attacks in close combat that have similar, if not better, odds of putting a wound on a model, works surprisingly well.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Shotguns only really work when they have the same Strength as the models using them.

Guardsmen with S3 shotguns, or Marines with S4 (like BA and DA) are very effective in the first turn of an assault, even compared to pistol and CCW.

Pistol & CCW gets one attack that hits on a 3+, followed by 3 attacks that hit on a 4+ all of them have the same Str, and the AP value is usually low enough not to make much difference.

Shotgun gets two attacks that hit on a 3+, followed by 2 attacks that hit on a 4+ again, same strength but no AP.

The shotgun gives you more shooting attacks, attacks that are going to hit more often and (most importantly) get counted before any of the melee attacks, effectively giving you a temporary initiative boost for your first couple attacks.

This makes shotguns very effective in the first turn of the assault. But they become less effective in subsequent rounds because you're giving up the attack.

It all depends on the strength of the shotgun and the enemies you;re up against. S4 shotguns against models with a 4+ por greater armor save and/or an initiative higher than yours are a more desireable option, IMO...particularly if the target squad is small enough to take down in the first turn.

However, if you;re going against, say, orks or guard where there's going to e a lot of them, they swing after you and their armor is low enough that the BP can defeat it, then go for pistols.


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## The Red Thirst (Dec 11, 2007)

Also with shotguns if the enemy has a very mobile force and they speed away from you, the 12'' range of the shotgun is all for nothing and youve wasted units that could have been used for a sniper. A balanced scout force mainly on assault would be 7or8 shotguns and 2or3 snipers. this is an evenly balanced unit costing a cheap X amount of points that can really confuse opponents. If they run bam! sniper fire. if they stay they get a facefull of shotgun shells.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Well now you;re talking about two entirely different squads.

You should compare apples to apples. In this case, shotguns should be compared to pistol & CCW since they're both assault-oriented loadouts.

Snipers are fine and dandy, but you use them for entirely different purposes than shotguns or pistols. Nobody is suggesting using shotguns as a long range fire-team.


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

that is so tits! i played my scouts like they had shotguns one time...the 1 point difference really makes a difference :shok:


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## The Red Thirst (Dec 11, 2007)

Galahad said:


> Well now you;re talking about two entirely different squads.
> 
> You should compare apples to apples. In this case, shotguns should be compared to pistol & CCW since they're both assault-oriented loadouts.
> 
> Snipers are fine and dandy, but you use them for entirely different purposes than shotguns or pistols. Nobody is suggesting using shotguns as a long range fire-team.


I guess you're right.... If you have a squad you use them for one purpose and not multi-tasking...
But this is exactly right. Guardsman can parachute down and shoot the hell put of ppl with the guns and scouts are there from turn one.

What i dont understand is why the DA and BA shotguns have S4 and Ultramines and friends have only S3.


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## Moschaboy (Jan 5, 2007)

it's because the codex says: thou shalt not pimp your shotgun...

i think it's because they tried to make the option playable cause it's a damnshame to have such a coolunit almost totally worthless. and to sell thhe models, of course.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Because the game designers realized that s3 shotguns suck for SM *after* the 4th ed SM dex came out.

Wait til 5th, then they'll all be on the same page.


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

im space wolves o i only really use normal scouts or snipers and rocket launchers depending on the wya i use them


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## The Red Thirst (Dec 11, 2007)

When will the new SM COdex come out?


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

The Red Thirst said:


> When will the new SM COdex come out?


After 5th edition which will be either sometime this coming summer or a long time afterward.


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## SETH CHAPTER MAST (Feb 5, 2008)

I play Flesh tearers and i hardly ever use scouts but....
when i do use them 8 shot guns, a heavy bolter and a VS with power weapon.

I find this works really well v orks, IG, tau, nids. But as for fighting SM NEC or CSM sniper the little gits lol.


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## Churlton (Nov 23, 2007)

*Thanks*



Katie Drake said:


> Just wait until the new Marine Codex. There's a trend in the Dark Angel and Blood Angel rules where shotgun Strength is going up by 1. They're far more useful at that point.
> 
> Katie D


Doh!

Thanks for that info ..... I have scout figures with shotguns and was going to use them as S3 :fool:

I just hadn't noticed the change.:read::headbutt:

What else have I missed?.........

They are still, of very limited use , but the figures are kinda nice.


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## CaptainBailean (Feb 20, 2008)

shotguns are terrible


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Welcome to the forums, Cap

Perhaps you could explain why shotguns are crap?


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

whats the strength of shotguns


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Depends on the army.

Most armies it's S3, for Blood Angels and Dark Angels it's S4


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