# Vampire Counts...



## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

Hiya, I was wondering how you guys here on Heresy went about fielding your VC. Just wanted an extra opinion, to see how the wonderful interweb thinks they should be played. :laugh:

Cheers.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

I do not play them so am not up on all the best combinations.

However, as a regular opponent of VC I dislike facing Ghouls much more than the other core choices so suggest they are a good base for an army.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

Ghouls are the only core unit which doesn't suck. :laugh: There are lots of Skeletons VS Ghouls discussions, but to be honest, Skeletons babysit casters or provide a cheap bulk to house a powerful Lord who can do all the killing by himself. Ghouls, on the other hand, do stuff.

It's why I plan to field a horde of 40. :biggrin: It's good to see that the fear of ghouls isn't just local, then.

But no qualms about the Hasselhof Banner? Or "over-powered" magic and Grave Guard? Odd, a forum I often frequent often laments those very things (along with ghouls!). Thanks for that useful insight.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> But no qualms about the Hasselhof Banner?


If you mean the Drakenhof banner I have not faced it; if I did, I do not think Regeneration is horribly broken for the points.



Farseer Darvaleth said:


> Or "over-powered" magic....


Lore of the Vampires does not seem broken to me; it is certainly no worse than BRB Lores.

Magic-wise I do not like Forbidden Lore, but can cope.



Farseer Darvaleth said:


> ...Grave Guard?


They are usually the most resilient thing I face; I have not noticed them being too hard to handle.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> Ghouls are the only core unit which doesn't suck. :laugh: There are lots of Skeletons VS Ghouls discussions, but to be honest, Skeletons babysit casters or provide a cheap bulk to house a powerful Lord who can do all the killing by himself. Ghouls, on the other hand, do stuff.


Ghouls are the one of the two things keeping VC's semi-competitive right now... Our core is nothing more than over-priced garbage, while most of it can't even count towards the 25% minimum.



Farseer Darvaleth said:


> But no qualms about the Hasselhof Banner? Or "over-powered" magic and Grave Guard? Odd, a forum I often frequent often laments those very things (along with ghouls!). Thanks for that useful insight.


I hear a lot of complaints about the dickenhof banner from the more vocal minority who can't think outside their own arse...
Anyone with even half a brain knows you need to include some burny-goodness now in 8th ed, as there's a decent amount of regen out there. (especially on the tournament scene with things like double hydras/abombs!)
The banner should ideally drop about 25pts or so as regen is nowhere near as godly as it was in 7th.

Grave Guard are our only reliable infantry unit. They can be *very* nasty with the right combos, and GG should likely cost a little more than they currently do. (the great weapon option should easily be at least 2pts/model).
Still, having tried VC armies without running a GG unit, it becomes a massive uphill battle as the core infantry just can't compete right now in 8th due to their absurdly high cost & lack of any hitting power... A bloodbus will do wonders, but you will likely lose the bulk of your army!


As for what to field, well it's dependant on what you want out of the game... If you're looking into competitive tournament play, then you're pretty well forced to go with a magic heavy, grave guard deathstar + ghoul spam list. Add a small'ish unit of skellies for the banner they bring and to act as bunker for your Lv4 wizard.
For more casual play, just use whatever appeals most to you!

Cheers!


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

As an ogre player ghouls are the only VC unit that bothers me. Skellies and zombies are way too easy to scythe through (best I've done is a unit of 40 zombies dead in a turn... that was in 7th, in 8th I could do even better).
Grave guard are nasty in limitted situations; they dont work well against hoards or monstrous units (such as ogres). The first their killing blow overkills, the second it doesnt effect.

Having said that I think the most important unit in a VC army is the summoned zombie unit- instant units to block and redirect charges sounds great to me, and are pretty easy to get into the right position. If I played VC I would be truly evil- using zombies to indefinately block strong enemy units while my main units (ghouls, black/blood knights with various vampires) stormed through to kill off a selection of the enemy


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Only way to play VC is point's denial. Either through magic or combat prowess.

Bloodknight Death stars still work to a degree, you just have to be more aware of magic nowadays.

Ghoul hordes are the only effective core choice. Multiple balefire corpse carts with a couple of Black coaches can really suck away enemy magic, but leaves you with an army that is the delight of war machines.

Varghulfs are a good buy for the points, a handful of those running around together gives you a hard punch.

VC combat lords stood ina bug block of grave guard is a fucker to deal with, very powerful infantry. if you're going for points denial...this is your unit.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Tim/Steve: You still have to be quite careful with summoning zombies, as each unit will easily give away 50VP's... In a close game, you could quite accidently give away a victory by summoning that extra sacrifical zombie unit or two!
It simply takes far too much effort trying to build a sizeable block from scratch that's viable in 8th. Hell, I've seen units of 50-60 zombies taken out in a single combat round in 8th!

I'll usually use dire wolves pts permitting for any type of dely/re-direct tactics as 5 wolves is cheaper than the summoned deadheads.



Orochi said:


> Only way to play VC is point's denial. Either through magic or combat prowess.


Not quite true... Pts denial is the only way for VC's to play *competitively* in 8th!
I'm happy to lose in the most spectacular fashion possible in friendly match-ups!:friends:


Cheers!


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

2 posts moved to armylists here

Yeah, I know each unit is worth 50vp... but that wouldn't stop me doing it. I would happily throw away 4-500 pts from sacrificial units to utterly bog down my opponents army. Other then with my WE I'm normally pretty cavalier with VP- I try to smash the enemy force then worry about grabbing extra VP (and saving a few) towards the end of the game.. unfortunately when I do use WE I have to be wary of VP all the way through the game).


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

If you want to win right now VC are pretty mono-build. Ghouls, Vampire Lord with Lord of Light and Helm of Commandment, Big Grave Guard Block with either Banner of the Barrows or the Royal Banner of Strigos, and some sundry units to make up your points value and the Good Book of course. It's a very solid list which can do very very well. That said I don't know what that guy played the other day in the Tourney where it was VC and Daemons in the top 3 places. 

There are a lot of fun things you can do with them but most involve losing catastrophically.


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Luckily for us, there's some rummors that we should have our new army book before the end of next year! (so just before the world ends - which means we won't have to put up with all whining for too long!)

From what I've been able to hunt down, it looks like VC's got royally hosed at the recent 'ard boyz qualifiers... Lots of teclis lists, & WoC making it through.
Hopefully this helps shed some of the hate we typically get for playing the 'auto-cheese' army?!

Cheers!


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

The Good Book? Do you mean the one with VHDM? So you can have Lore of Light, IoN, and VHDM... ah me likes. :laugh: Clever way of getting another spell, taking a bound item.

VC used to be able to spam power dice, but no longer, it seems. However, magic isn't totally useless!

I was thinking of taking a Lord with +2PD, level 4, and summon ghouls, then knocking that ghoul horde down to 30, cutting the necro and the thrall vamp to have less stuff, and maybe even cutting the 20 skellies to fit the list into 1750pts. What do you think? I'll write it up later, maybe.

Oh, and the lord would have blood drinker and the stupidity crown, but not any armour because of 25% limit... in higher points games he could have the flayed hauberk and become truly solid, each wound he causes giving himself wounds back, and regenerating his ghouls. (He'd of course be in that unit.) I'd add a Ghoul champion for re-directing challenges, of course!

Any thoughts?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

experiment 626 said:


> Luckily for us, there's some rummors that we should have our new army book before the end of next year! (so just before the world ends - which means we won't have to put up with all whining for too long!)
> 
> From what I've been able to hunt down, it looks like VC's got royally hosed at the recent 'ard boyz qualifiers... Lots of teclis lists, & WoC making it through.
> Hopefully this helps shed some of the hate we typically get for playing the 'auto-cheese' army?!
> ...


Not so sure about that- TK are just about to come out and ogres have been rumoured to be coming out ~October... I kinda doubt we'll get VC as well this year, though I would put them in the pile for next years possible re-makes (along with WE and brets mebbe).


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Tim/Steve said:


> Not so sure about that- TK are just about to come out and ogres have been rumoured to be coming out ~October... I kinda doubt we'll get VC as well this year, though I would put them in the pile for next years possible re-makes (along with WE and brets mebbe).


I think I mentioned before the end of next year?

Everyone of the reliable rummor mongers are pinning ogres as the next & final fantasy book for this year.
There's rumblings about bretonnians not having to hold their horses for much longer...
No one really knows about the tree huggers?!
Again, I've had it from a few rummor mongers that VC's will get some much needed help sooner rather than later!


Farseer Darvaleth: I have 2 fairly 'standard' set-up that I run for my lords, 1 for a foot lord who's in a grave guard unit, and the other who I use in a bloodbus;
a) The foot lord gets Light magic & the staff of damnation among other gear. Thus, my entire infantry on a good day can get a cheeky round of magical combat to help knock out a rank or two before it actually counts! (the staff is soooooooooo good now!)

b) The mounted lord is lore of heavens, fury, cadaverous cuirass, drinker, dragonbane gem, hellsteed, good book I stole from arkhan.
Unit also includes the mandetory dickenhoff banner wight king w/great weapon + 10 blood knights. Provided it doesn't get wiped out first turn by a gimmiky 'uber spell, it hurts alot come turn 2, and once in combat, there's very little that can stand upto it...


I recomend you try out the Staff of Damnation with an infantry line at least once! It's good fun for you at least!:angel:

Cheers!


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

Don't forget that they've commited to redoing all their old books before reissuing the new books (until the next edition of 40K & they redo space marines anyways...) This means (I believe) vampiree players will need to sit through bretonnia, Wood Elves, Ogres, Dwarves, Empire & High elves (in roughly that order... Bretonnia being 7 years old at this point...).

To make vampires "acceptable" in the meantime they should release a new version of the errata much like they did for space marine armies in 40K which balances our points costs with those of the other armies. 4 points for a skeleton w/ HW:S in tomb kings, +1 point for heavy armor? Well, then our skeletons should be 5 points with the option to go sword & board or spear & shield with no added cost (as the loss of the parry save makes up for the extra rank of attacks). Ghouls are costed quite fairly for what they do & zombies should be basically free (2 pts each?). Our heroes & Lords are priced fairly, but our remaining core, special & rare should also be tweaked a little.

The one thing to remember is that at *low* points games vampires aren't & never were points effective. Magic doesnt' scale while the shooting & combat prowess certainly does at higher point levels. It should be obvious to anyone that the game developers are trying to push your standard games up to the 3,000 point level. At that level taking a single lvl4 caster w/ MotBA - or two - will ensure you have a strong magic phase every turn.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

I have another list, but am unsure if this is the place for it. :laugh: Never mind, here goes:

Vampire Lord - 425pts
- MotBA
- Dark Acolyte
- Summon Ghouls
- Blood Drinker
- Crown of the Damned
- Level 4

Vampire - 180pts
- Helm of Commandment
- MotBA

Wight King - 175pts
- BSB
- Flag of Blood Keep

30 Ghouls - 248pts
- Champion

20 Skeletons - 180pts
- Command

10 Skeletons - 80pts

30 Grave Guard - 465pts
- Command
- Banner of the Barrows
- Great Weapons

*1753pts*

If my opponent complains about me being three points over, I'll kill a Ghoul before the game starts.

The Lord goes with the ghouls and, inevitably, raises them up to 40 as soon as possible, perhaps casting some offensive magic also.

Thrall goes in small 10-man bunker, essentially a PD slave, using IoN on whatever needs it, and giving his WS of 6 to the GG.

WK in GG, big banner of living-ness helping out. Otherwise fairly self-explanatory.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

My standard lord build is this

* Vampire Lord (380pts) 
- Crown of the Damned, Helm of Commandment, Master of the Black Arts, The Flayed Hauberk
Forbidden Lore
- Light

Maybe buying the extra level if I have spare points (I never do) . Helm of Commandment on your Ghouls is just rude, and if your using the Good Book (Book of Arkhan) then they're unreal. I've tried various combat lords and they just never work out, if this guy gets into combat I've done something wrong really. 

The Hybrid Lord like you have there just falls between 2 stools, he's a good Caster but only Lore of Vampires, he's OK at fighting but not great. He can't use Blood Drinker to raise the unit above it's starting size so it's a bit of a waste of 40 points.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

But he has Summon Ghouls....:laugh:

And why is Lore of Light so good? There are a couple of buffs, but that's all I can see...?


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

> Q. If a Vampire Counts character armed with Blood Drinker or the
> Tomb Blade is within 6" of a Corpse Cart with an Unholy
> Lodestone, or has the Lord of the Dead, Summon Creatures of the
> Night, or Summon Ghouls Vampiric Powers, do the effects combine?
> ...


You don't get to use the effect of Summon Ghouls with the Blood Drinker effect sadly. 

Light is all about the buffs. Ghouls are good, but Make the I10 WS10 and your opponent is on 5's to hit you, ASF and +1 attack is totally boss, makes even Skellies good, Pha's Protection is an easy cast and lets you advance under missile fire more easily.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

Darn. I am now seriously re-thinking my entire list. :laugh:

Perhaps Fencer's Blades and Helm? Then I don't need Light, necessarily (can still use VHDM for ASF) and can use Vampires Lore, which isn't that bad, to get to Level 4. May have to go to 2000pts, however.

I will write a list shortly. Oh, and perhaps a suicide vampire? They seem to be all the rage... :biggrin:


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Suicide vampire?

Red fury+Ethereal+LoreofBeasts.

Turn yourself into an Ethereal, 10ish attacks dragon.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Why go for a Dragon when you can go for Mountain Chimera and flip out. ~14 S7 Poisoned attacks on your first pass followed by whatever else you cause with Red Fury.


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## Farseer Darvaleth (Nov 15, 2009)

Sadly cannot be done, unless the spell allows use on another friendly model. And I don't think the special rules transfer. It'd be a very dirty tactic, anyway. Plus I'd need a dragon. :laugh:

Perhaps a Lord w/ Blood Drinker, Stupid Crown, 2+ Hauberk, Red Fury, and Level 4 could go with the GG? Blood Drinker would replenish them, and still having a level 4 magic user. Then a thrall can take lore of light, and either/both can take Summon ghouls to get them from 30 to 40 as fast as possible.

A list is on the way, have no fear...


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Items don't transfer to your new form, but but being Ethereal is a special rule not an item so you're good to go.


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

best vampire kit out I've found (personally) is to take the following (2250-2500 pts is where we play typically)

Lord w/ additional caster level
Infinite Hatred
Red Fury
Nightshroud
Crown of the Damned
Staff of Damnation.

coupled with a helm of command vampire c/w FL: Beasts.

No magical blade on your caster you say? Well, Savage beast on the lord to give yourself 7 S8 attacks hitting almost everything on 3's & rerolling, also generating additional attacks. Quite brutal & relies on a relatively simple spell to get off. Most people expect something else. Of course, you could trade off the staff of damnation for something like the sword of striking which I believe is the 30 pt blade that generates an additional 2 attacks (up to 9 now - how do you like generating a potential 18 points of combat resolution from a single character?) but the ability to give a horde of GG additional KB:GW attacks before combat begins is quite devastating (easy way to prevent getting locked in a challenge! throw 9 S6:KB attacks hitting on 2's into a unit champ / character...)

I like beasts because the hunter's spear (whatever... don't know spell names) & angry birds spell allows you to eat up warmachines, obviously savage beast has its applications...


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## experiment 626 (Apr 26, 2007)

Orochi said:


> Suicide vampire?
> 
> Red fury+Ethereal+LoreofBeasts.
> 
> Turn yourself into an Ethereal, 10ish attacks dragon.


can't as sadly that's 135pts worth of powers... Transformation can only be used by the wizard himself - no morphing your best mates sadly.:no:


My rather 'suicide' thrall I use is;
forbidden lore - VC + LotD, Hellsteed, wristbands, spellshield.
Her job is to flit about being an annoying prick! first or two turn she'll toss out a much welcomed summon undead horde to add 3D6 skellies to a unit.
Then she'll go after war machines, lone wizards, smaller fast cav units... She can also pop a curse of years at an opertune moment, as well as provide some vanel's relief to my faster units... Best of all is her ability to grow large numbers of zombies within the enemy's rear lines, and fubar their gunlines with stinky corpses!

She's also fairly resiliant to any ranged damage with a 3++ vs shooting & 2++ vs magic! Plus a 20" movement keeps her out of trouble...

Cheers!


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