# Is anyone buying azhag??



## jackd334 (May 25, 2009)

Reading through the forums, not many people seem to like him :/ Are you put off by the price? Or perhaps dont like it? (everyone says its ugly, its a damned orc! Not an Elf!!!). Im buying one for a future golden daemon, is anyone else buying him? If so post pics of yours, weather converted or not. 
C'mon guys, lets see some people with something positive to say about it.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I think its a nice looking model, actually.


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## jackd334 (May 25, 2009)

*phew* Im not alone


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

I wouldn't have it even if someone paid me £1000 to take it


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## sundrinker (Aug 7, 2009)

i sure am, it looks like a brilliant model and i am a major greenskin fan

```
[url=http://www.heresy-online.net/daemons/levelup/8483-spitelash.htm][img]http://www.heresy-online.net/daemons/adoptables/8483.gif[/img][/url]
```


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## jackd334 (May 25, 2009)

**



sundrinker said:


> i sure am, it looks like a brilliant model and i am a major greenskin fan
> 
> ```
> [url=http://www.heresy-online.net/daemons/levelup/8483-spitelash.htm][img]http://www.heresy-online.net/daemons/adoptables/8483.gif[/img][/url]
> ```


You must PM me pics of him once youv painted it


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## BloodAngelsfan (Jan 22, 2009)

I think the model is amazing, If I didn't plan to use that money for buying Space Hulk (I would save around $100 on models) I would buy it.


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## jackd334 (May 25, 2009)

BloodAngelsfan said:


> I think the model is amazing, If I didn't plan to use that money for buying Space Hulk (I would save around $100 on models) I would buy it.


ah, thats the other thing i was gunna adress :/ They shouldnt have realeased them side by side, because people will go for one or the other :/
My hearts set on Azhag though


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## Andrakis (Jun 24, 2009)

Azhag is wayyy too expensive for 1 model. You have _got_ to be kidding me! Any single model more than $75 USD better give me a reach around too. 

That being said, I do like the model itself.


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## BloodAngelsfan (Jan 22, 2009)

jackd334 said:


> ah, thats the other thing i was gunna adress :/ They shouldnt have realeased them side by side, because people will go for one or the other :/
> My hearts set on Azhag though


This is so true. I would imagine that most people would go for Space Hulk, because it saves them money on models (12 terminators, 22 genestealers and a broodlord costs significantly more than $99.00) not to mention that Space Hulk is a terrific game and is being sold while stocks last. The models are a very important factor in this (mainly because I still have Space Hulk from like 20 years ago) as I play both SM and Nids.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

The model is meant to be a painter's model, not necessarily a used model. The model is worth so much because of the immense level of detail given to it so painters can have a field day with it- Where Space Hulk is what those more interested in playing the game will buy, Azhag is what painters will go for. It could also be seen as Azhag is the release for Fantasy while SH is for 40K. Either way, its an amazing model, and I might have to get it to paint it.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

BloodAngelsfan said:


> This is so true. I would imagine that most people would go for Space Hulk, because it saves them money on models (12 terminators, 22 genestealers and a broodlord costs significantly more than $99.00) not to mention that Space Hulk is a terrific game and is being sold while stocks last. The models are a very important factor in this (mainly because I still have Space Hulk from like 20 years ago) as I play both SM and Nids.


not to mention at least the Hulk models don't look like a pile of dog poo


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

75 USD? You think that's bad, we're paying 138 AUD here.....GW price gouging us poor bastards yet again...


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## jackd334 (May 25, 2009)

I cant wait to get hold of one. And iv got 2 years before my next GD  So i can work on my painting skills.


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

That model was created so GW could laugh at all the stupid people that buy one.

And Nag, its not our fault your Currency is in the shitter.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

JokerGod said:


> That model was created so GW could laugh at all the stupid people that buy one.


they do it quite often these days, but this is for sure the worst culprit so far.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

JokerGod said:


> That model was created so GW could laugh at all the stupid people that buy one.
> 
> And Nag, its not our fault your Currency is in the shitter.


Our currency isn't in the shitter.

In relative terms it's stronger than it has ever been compared to other currencies.

It is complete stupidity to simply state that because one currency buys 0.6 of another that it's 'shit'. PPP and so forth also play a big role, so please at least have some idea what you're saying before slagging off on others and especially before being a rascist, condescending and generally offensive twat. 

In order to allow you to make a fair comparison in prices I have converted all prices into USD based upon www.xe.com, even with minor adjustments for currencies, for example if we adjust the Australian to USD exchange rate to say, 0.6 (which would be a poor rate historically) you would find that our price in USD would deteriorate. In any case, our currency being poor, doesn't even justify it, or make sense in relation to GW harvesting higher returns in GBP or USD from Australian sales. If anything one should see the reverse. (Their profits in USD should deteriorate as our currency deteriorates or finds itself devalued, or likewise in GBP).

Our price is:
115 USD

American Price is:
75 USD

Finally UK Price is:
80 USD

See how it changes when you convert the currencies....if it was our 'shit' currency, and our 'shit' economy then our prices would be cheaper, not more expensive. (because when one 'bought' USD with AUD one would receive a lower return, being involved with GW products and also international aspects of business I keep a close eye on the prices and it is a long term and consistent aspect in that GW constantly rips us off, hence why Aussies buy from overseas so often for their minis).

What happens in Australia with GW is called price gouging, Australians have one of the highest disposable incomes in the world due to a low cost of living. As a result GW prices their products the highest here, also termed a 'price differentiation strategy'. It's also a result of our lower range of price sensitivity towards luxury goods, also contributing to the high price. For your information, Italy has a substantially lower income per person than us (i.e. a less profitable economy and the US which has a higher income per person has a very poor income distribution).

I will finish my rant off with a loud sigh and a link:


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Azhag simply had to be metal. As an Orc, only a small number, comparitively, are going to buy it. This means making a plastic mould would be too expensive for the number of models that would be made/sold. It is also a named character model, and I think they are all metal, aren't they? Maybe not, I'm not sure on that. The model is also the biggest metal model that GW make, so it's going to be expensive.
Apart from economics, I think it is a fine model. It looks awesome and I'll be getting one, probably for Christmas or my birthday. And lets not forget, SH is a limited release; after that has gone, Azhag will still be there. 
As a compariter, just to go back to the deadly cash again, look at the Greatswords. If they had been metal, I bet they would have been cheaper. The global economic problems surfaced after GW had paid for the plastic moulds; the numbers they were projected to sell fell dramatically and so we end up with a kit that had to rise hugely in price so that the company, which has been tidying its finaces quite well recently, stood a chance of recouping its money. I think that we all have to bear in mind that there are a huge amount of 'hidden' factors that contribute to the final price of a model, be it plastic or metal. No company that has any hope of staying in business will gouge its customers just for the hell of it. GW don't charge what they do because they just feel like it and I think we, as hobbyists, need to be realistic when we have pricing discussions and look beyond out intial kneejerk reactions to prices that seem high. Only if we do this will we be able to work out wether we are actually getting value for our money. Personally, I think we are. (And this is my opinion based on my experiences- it is neither right nor wrong.)
My $8.36

GFP


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Azhag simply had to be metal. As an Orc, only a small number, comparitively, are going to buy it. This means making a plastic mould would be too expensive for the number of models that would be made/sold. It is also a named character model, and I think they are all metal, aren't they? Maybe not, I'm not sure on that. The model is also the biggest metal model that GW make, so it's going to be expensive.
> Apart from economics, I think it is a fine model. It looks awesome and I'll be getting one, probably for Christmas or my birthday. And lets not forget, SH is a limited release; after that has gone, Azhag will still be there.
> As a compariter, just to go back to the deadly cash again, look at the Greatswords. If they had been metal, I bet they would have been cheaper. The global economic problems surfaced after GW had paid for the plastic moulds; the numbers they were projected to sell fell dramatically and so we end up with a kit that had to rise hugely in price so that the company, which has been tidying its finaces quite well recently, stood a chance of recouping its money. I think that we all have to bear in mind that there are a huge amount of 'hidden' factors that contribute to the final price of a model, be it plastic or metal. No company that has any hope of staying in business will gouge its customers just for the hell of it. GW don't charge what they do because they just feel like it and I think we, as hobbyists, need to be realistic when we have pricing discussions and look beyond out intial kneejerk reactions to prices that seem high. Only if we do this will we be able to work out wether we are actually getting value for our money. Personally, I think we are. (And this is my opinion based on my experiences- it is neither right nor wrong.)
> My $8.36
> ...


GW rises their prices on a range from 10-20x the rate of inflation, even raising prices in an economic downturn (no one else does). Other companies make similar quality minatures and yet charge drastically less. GW IS price gouging, GW is exploiting the loyalty of its customers, these two aspects are pure fact.

What does it cost them per sprue all costs included? Something like 5c, it's their own stupid decisions which eat in to profits.

When plastics were new to GW, you used to get, for example a box of 20 skeletons for $20 AUD, now you get 10 skeletons for more than double that price. That's in the space of 8 years. From $1 a skeleton, to $5 a skeleton....500% price increase in 10 years? Give me a damn break, they 'need' to do that like I need a hole in the head and rest assured I don't need it. Inflation here is roughly 5%, give or take as an average, GW is increasing their price by let's say, 50% a year on my poor old skeleton. This means they're raising prices at 10x the rate of inflation in a simple calculation (I could go more in depth of just how big an asshole they're being to their long term fan base but that would be wrong....or how stupid their business acumen is....).


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

NagashKhemmler said:


> GW rises their prices on a range from 10-20x the rate of inflation, even raising prices in an economic downturn (no one else does). Other companies make similar quality minatures and yet charge drastically less. GW IS price gouging, GW is exploiting the loyalty of its customers, these two aspects are pure fact.
> 
> What does it cost them per sprue all costs included? Something like 5c, it's their own stupid decisions which eat in to profits.
> 
> When plastics were new to GW, you used to get, for example a box of 20 skeletons for $20 AUD, now you get 10 skeletons for more than double that price. That's in the space of 8 years. From $1 a skeleton, to $5 a skeleton....500% price increase in 10 years? Give me a damn break, they 'need' to do that like I need a hole in the head and rest assured I don't need it. Inflation here is roughly 5%, give or take as an average, GW is increasing their price by let's say, 50% a year on my poor old skeleton. This means they're raising prices at 10x the rate of inflation in a simple calculation (I could go more in depth of just how big an asshole they're being to their long term fan base but that would be wrong....or how stupid their business acumen is....).


Yes, lets all compare a company that employs thousands to a company that has a hand full of people working for them. 

I love it when people get random crap that means nothing to try to throw it out there as relevant facts. GW is the ONLY miniature company that has its own line of stores. It is also the ONLY miniature company that hosts yearly conventions and tournaments with large prizes. They are also the ONLY miniature company that has given decades of constant support to there games with updated rules and models.

Do you want to know why you pay more for models in AUS? Because your government likes to charge a lot more for imported goods. That is why its cheaper in GB, there is no importation tax, as well as the US because it is very low. 

And I rest my case with a simple "Learn what the big words mean before you use them" Saying you pay more because your currency is in the shitter dos not make me a "racist". Just as you making comparasins between two things that are nothing alike is not relevant or usefull.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

I originally wrote a long, well thought out post defeating your points, I then realised you have no idea what you're talking about and have no education relating to this area, as a result I won't waste my time arguing with you.


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

NagashKhemmler said:


> I originally wrote a long, well thought out post defeating your points, I then realised you have no idea what you're talking about and have no education relating to this area, as a result I won't waste my time arguing with you.


No, you made a very long and pointless post that proved nothing and as no relation to the topic. But it was a good try. And your petty attempt at insulting me shows only that you accept that you are wrong and are just not man enough to admit it. 

Have a nice day.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

JokerGod said:


> No, you made a very long and pointless post that proved nothing and as no relation to the topic.


you mean how like both of you have been making posts not related to if you are or are not buying azhag?


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> you mean how like both of you have been making posts not related to if you are or are not buying azhag?


Ya basically. But lets face it, the damb thing is not worth a topic.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Nagash, mate, inflation is an unavoidable fact. Complaining that prices have risen year-on-year is like complaining that winter still follows autumn. I think you'll find that a large proportion of companies have raised their prices, at least the ones that have any long-term strategies.
When the financial crisis hit, lots of banks lost a shedload of cash because of bad loans they had made to 'sub-prime' lenders. These folk had been given mortgages that, after 2 years had the interest 'reset' to something so high that the peple couldn't pay them. Ordinarily that wouldn't be an issue; the bank takes the house and then sells it, making back its money. This time, though, there were so many who couldn't pay that there were so many houses, pushing the house-price down to a point were the banks were unable to make their money back. The only way they could get the money back was to make other borrowers pay more by raising interest rates for everyone. So any company that has bank-loans all of a sudden needed more money to pay for them. It was this last fact that caused all of the problems; the flow of money and credit stopped and nobody could do anything.
The above is why prices rose during the downturn, not anyhting else. Inflation, as far as I know, is caused as money becomes worth less, but more available. The Skellies you use as an example may cost more as a direct comparison, but how much more do they cost as a proportion of the money you actually have? People who work (and I know not all Heretics are workers, but their parents will be for the most part) get a raise every year. This means that, every year companies see that people have more cash and so prices go up. It needs to be said that GW are not some 'bogey-man' who are trying to ruin our lives. They are a bunch of hobbyist who do what they do becuase it is something they love that can be sold to others for a profit. But the profit margin isn't huge; most of what we pay for models goes on the overheads that we don't see. So, to be able to make reality-based price-complaints, we really need to see just what those overheads are and then see if the final price is too high.
GW-bashing has become de-rigour with too many and for no reason at all. The subject of price, as I said above, needs real thought and consideration, not a bunch of people who don't really examine the issue shouting OMG, GW R TEH SUXXORZONE!1!, which is, unfortunately, what many of these threads ulimately become.

GFP


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## jackd334 (May 25, 2009)

Jesus people. I started this thread to fid some positive stuff on azhag. So, thankyou very much to those of you who have done this. I was trying to avoid people moaning on about how they DONT like it, and also try and keep it uncluttered with arguments and off topic stuff like the other thread :/


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> Nagash, mate, inflation is an unavoidable fact. Complaining that prices have risen year-on-year is like complaining that winter still follows autumn. I think you'll find that a large proportion of companies have raised their prices, at least the ones that have any long-term strategies.
> When the financial crisis hit, lots of banks lost a shedload of cash because of bad loans they had made to 'sub-prime' lenders. These folk had been given mortgages that, after 2 years had the interest 'reset' to something so high that the peple couldn't pay them. Ordinarily that wouldn't be an issue; the bank takes the house and then sells it, making back its money. This time, though, there were so many who couldn't pay that there were so many houses, pushing the house-price down to a point were the banks were unable to make their money back. The only way they could get the money back was to make other borrowers pay more by raising interest rates for everyone. So any company that has bank-loans all of a sudden needed more money to pay for them. It was this last fact that caused all of the problems; the flow of money and credit stopped and nobody could do anything.
> The above is why prices rose during the downturn, not anyhting else. Inflation, as far as I know, is caused as money becomes worth less, but more available. The Skellies you use as an example may cost more as a direct comparison, but how much more do they cost as a proportion of the money you actually have? People who work (and I know not all Heretics are workers, but their parents will be for the most part) get a raise every year. This means that, every year companies see that people have more cash and so prices go up. It needs to be said that GW are not some 'bogey-man' who are trying to ruin our lives. They are a bunch of hobbyist who do what they do becuase it is something they love that can be sold to others for a profit. But the profit margin isn't huge; most of what we pay for models goes on the overheads that we don't see. So, to be able to make reality-based price-complaints, we really need to see just what those overheads are and then see if the final price is too high.
> GW-bashing has become de-rigour with too many and for no reason at all. The subject of price, as I said above, needs real thought and consideration, not a bunch of people who don't really examine the issue shouting OMG, GW R TEH SUXXORZONE!1!, which is, unfortunately, what many of these threads ulimately become.
> ...


My complaint actually, isn't specifically against GW raising prices, that is normal. Most companies raise their prices. GW does however raise prices far more often than other companies, regardless of sector.

Inflation is the amount by which prices rise yearly on average. I compared the rate GW increases prices to inflation to show the average that prices have been increasing aproximately on a yearly basis and then compared that to inflation, GW goods have been increasing in price faster. This is bad for the entry level people into the hobby, and especially in Australia, I have noticed that due to this the amount of new gamers coming in to the hobby is far less than previously.

GW in Australia has been investigated more than once for its pricing strategies in relation to its share holders and possible negligence and a friend of mine was on one such review board. (in Australia corporate stupidity is a crime...).

As for the sub prime crisis, I was doing research on it well before the rest of the world heard of the GFC.....

Anyways, my actual major point wasn't that GW was increasing prices too fast, my major and large gripe, is that GW is price gouging Australians compared to other countries, they are deliberately pricing their goods here higher to increase their average margins, as a result Australians are being driven towards grey imports and 'black markets'. I would like to buy that Azhag model as I think it's a great and highly detailed minature, however if I do, it won't be from a GW store in Australia, which was my primary point.

Fyi, this entire topic started because someone mentioned the price, I compared it to my price and it annoyed me that there was such a huge difference between what we pay and what others pay.


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## keytag33 (Apr 20, 2008)

OKAY back on topic. I don't like the current Azhag model I much prefer the older one from two or three edtions ago. However I think GW really screwed up on this one. It _should_ have been a forgeworld model. With the sculpters at forgeworld I think this would have been a good model, and lets face it their WHFB section is sparse to say the least. Also and I have nothing to back this up, but it probaly would have been cheaper at forgeworld to boot.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

I Love The model! Though It is far out my price range, it is fantastic.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

You just used "forge world" and "cheap" in the same sentence without being negative or sarcastic. Do you realize that by doing that you severely jeopardized the stability of the universal continuum? Lets try to keep the trans-dimensional tearing to a minimum please.


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## umlaut31 (Aug 8, 2009)

Iron Angel said:


> You just used "forge world" and "cheap" in the same sentence without being negative or sarcastic. Do you realize that by doing that you severely jeopardized the stability of the universal continuum? Lets try to keep the trans-dimensional tearing to a minimum please.



HAHA :laugh:


On the topic, I love the model, but mainly because the wyvern is the best damn monster I have seen sculpted (except forge world ones... and no-one say cheap now ). I think if you put the model on a castle turret that is falling away or something, it would look really amazing!

£50 is expensive, but Azhag is an all metal special character - the hellcannon or the steam tank is £35 - and they are just rare units!

Still, good luck to anyone who is going to buy him - my £50 would probably be better served on buying a battalion haha


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## 666Snoopy666 (Jun 1, 2008)

His Wyvern is pretty sweet. Not too keen on Azhag himself, but eh, if I had a O&G army and the money I would most probably get him. He'd make an awesome centre piece. 
As has been said, he's very pricey... I had to double take at his price when I first saw it. Then again, I always think that big models are worth it; I don't mind forking out for a Great Unclean One or Hellcannon because I know I'll feel I've achieved something after I paint it, and more so when I see it on the table ^-^


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

It's certainly an improvement over the "Orc Boss on Wyvern" model that looks suspiciously similar to Azhag, but isn't. At a certain point, an Orc is an Orc is an Orc, but the wyvern is drastically better. Whether it's $40 better is a totally seperate issue. I think it's interesting that Games Workshop is testing the waters with something like this--it's essentially a forge world quality and priced piece, with limited market. 

If I still played Orcs, I'd consider buying it. Not even necessarily to use as Azhag, but to use as a Warboss on a Wyvern. I lost every game I played with my Orcs, though, and now that my Fantasy allegiance is solely to Khorne, I've found that Orcs just weren't the right army, play style-wise, for me. Given that I'm never going to play my Orc army, and they've been relegated to tasks such as Blood Bowl and D&D these days, there's absolutely no reason for me to drop nearly a hundred bucks on Azhag when I could spend the same money on something like Space Hulk, or a Forge World mini, or even an expensive, self-contained game like Twilight Imperium or Chaos in the Old World (which isn't out yet, but it's AWESOME-- I highly reccomend picking it up when it comes out!).


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## 666Snoopy666 (Jun 1, 2008)

The Son of Horus said:


> It's certainly an improvement over the "Orc Boss on Wyvern" model that looks suspiciously similar to Azhag, but isn't. At a certain point, an Orc is an Orc is an Orc, but the wyvern is drastically better. Whether it's $40 better is a totally seperate issue. I think it's interesting that Games Workshop is testing the waters with something like this--it's essentially a forge world quality and priced piece, with limited market.
> 
> If I still played Orcs, I'd consider buying it. Not even necessarily to use as Azhag, but to use as a Warboss on a Wyvern. I lost every game I played with my Orcs, though, and now that my Fantasy allegiance is solely to Khorne, I've found that Orcs just weren't the right army, play style-wise, for me. Given that I'm never going to play my Orc army, and they've been relegated to tasks such as Blood Bowl and D&D these days, there's absolutely no reason for me to drop nearly a hundred bucks on Azhag when I could spend the same money on something like Space Hulk, or a Forge World mini, or even an expensive, self-contained game like Twilight Imperium or Chaos in the Old World (which isn't out yet, but it's AWESOME-- I highly reccomend picking it up when it comes out!).


I agree whole heartedly. I'd much prefer to buy some Forge mini to Azhag, but that's largely because I don't have an interest in getting Orcs. Maybe I would consider it if they bring in a new Grom the Paunch... :wink:


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I feel guilty about how my O&G languish behind my other armies. I have a load of stuff to build and paint before I give them any attention. The model is well 'ard, by any standards, and is a hell of an army centrepiece. It is a must buy and I imagine we'll see a few of these in subsequent Golden Daemons. I hope that when I start to build and paint mine, it will give me the impetus to re-build my Greenskins. Waaagh!

GFP

ps I'm sorry if folk thought I was aiding and abetting in the dragging of this thread off-topic. However, the price is a big factor in why many will not buy it. The arguments given are usually kneejerk and take no account of the reality of why things cost what they do. I had thought that trying to address this would have been a good way for us to take a fresh look at the subject. Even though points have been made by others, that I want to answer, the OP doesn't want this sort of discussion and I'm too lazy to bother continuing by PM, so, Scout's Honour, I'll not mention that stuff again. Still a sweet model though.


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## keytag33 (Apr 20, 2008)

OK had a major brain cramp with the whole forgeworld cheap thing. Sorry about that. But I still think if GW wants to produce centre piece models they should leave it to forgeworld. GW should just solely concentrate on mini's for in game use, produce a plastic Orc warboss on a Wyvern and leave it at that.


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## jackd334 (May 25, 2009)

Now thats a good idea. I think that all the characters mounted on very large monsters (dragon, carnosaur, wyvern, mnticore etc..) Should get plastic sculpts like the dragon. Same goes for the Great Daemons. Just think how much orc on wyvern you could get in plastic for £50!!


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## Sinioth (Feb 10, 2008)

Personally I like it. I probably won't buy it though, as I hardly ever use special characters in my armies.


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

well gw made this azhag around 2-3 years ago and pics were leaked on the net. however there were problems with casting so were not going to produce it. The buzz on the internet over the model was massively positive with many people screaming for him to be made, some asking if it coul dgo to forgeworld so they could order it as they believed it would be worth the extra money.
GW have listened and produced the model, and although it is expensive for a single more this king of large special character model is not going to sell massively, regardless of price. If a model is not going to sell alot then it needs to be more expensive to cover the initial fixed costs involved.

I'd be happier if it were cheaper but that said i was one of the people who was screaming for the model to be produced and have ordered it. I think it is worth it and im in the hobby for the quality. if gw produced slightly cheaper models that were as high quallity it wouldn't interest me, i never got assault on black reach beacause of this and the principle here is the same. Quality=more expensive=sexy models


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