# New Ork Codex Broken



## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

I remember everyone complaining about the new Chaos codex and how it was broke, but it is nothing compared to what the new ork codex is!

Over the past 3 days I have watched the guy who playes orks in my gaming group destroy my chaos army twice, a tyranid army, a dark eldar army, and 2 Space Marine armies with SHOOTING!!!! I understand that Orks only have a BS of 2 but when you have 2 full shoota boy squads hitting a 10 to 15 man unit with 120 shots the numbers are in the Ork's favor. Back these up with 2 full loota squads and another squad is pretty much dead. 

How are you supposed to fight against someone who can field four 30 man squads with assault 2 weapons, backed up by deadly heavy weapons that throw as much lead as one of these squads and more support units? My Chaos army can't put enough lead down to even make a difference. 

Sorry guys, rant over and still feel like GW stuck it to me again.


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

Well your not the first person to say this. I do have to agree with you that changing orks from an assualt army to a shooty army able to bring tons of fire power really does make them broken or atleast extremely hard to deal with. I have a shooty ork army as well shoota boyz, lootas, mek with Shokk attack gun,9 Big gun kannons all crammed into a 1500 point list. 

Even with BS2 I just have so many shoots that I just wipe entire squads off the board. Although I will say after years of having people say orks suck then cranking out 9 assualt cannons. It does kinda feel good but I do miss my choppa swinging bashing boyz.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Heheheeh... I was wondering how long before this topic came up, lol.

I was just browsing through the list and saw the potential to decimate armies just begging to be abused. Really abuse is not right word, as the options are there in plain sight and require nothing 'underhanded' to make usable. I just think the Ork 'Dex was just swung too far.


What kinda bothers me is that WHFB is suffering the same problems. With GW's insistence on 'streamlining' the games, combined with the shift from balanced armies to 'uber' armies, the competitive aspect is becoming more an army list building endeavor than a true gaming spectacle.


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

well then charge his shooter boyz or shoot them first i mean come on its a bolter round they get no saves


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

mgtymouze said:


> I remember everyone complaining about the new Chaos codex and how it was broke, but it is nothing compared to what the new ork codex is!


Right, and then when the space wolves codex comes out they will be the most broken one out there, and then the dark eldar will be the most broken, and the cycle will keep on going. 

Yes, two mobz of shoot boyz can lay out a high number of shots, but they still have their glaring weaknesses in range and size. Two thirty ork mobz can't be transported in any vehicle and so are slow moving, and their gunz don't have the longest range. You won't be able to wipe both mobz out but you can put some sort of dent in them. Then while they are large, that size can hurt them; one klaw per mob means that if you charge them from a spot where the nob is not within the kill zone, then no klaw attacks and the mob is tied up for at least one turn. (Stopping them from shooting for just one turn can be as good as stopping them from firing completely.)


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

Mad King George said:


> well then charge his shooter boyz or shoot them first i mean come on its a bolter round they get no saves


You have to get in bolter range though to use them. Loota squad can hit you from 48 inches away. 10 guys can crank out 30 Str. 7 shots. Say good bye to that squad.


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

Darkrever has a point with the size is a disadvantage to a point. While waiting on my oponent to move all his orks I have time to take a nap, smoke a cigarette, and make a beer run before my turn. When I do get into H2H, I am kicking ork ass. Problem is I only have around 3-5 guys left by that point.

As far as Mad King George's point. My standard squad puts out 10 rounds at 24" hitting on 3's and wounding on 4's. Let's say I get lucky and 7 of these hit, then lucky again and 4 wound. This still leaves 26 Orks from a squad to shoot an assault 2 weapon at me from. This is 52 shots hitting on 5's and wounding on 4's. If he is unlucky and say around 8 hit and 3 wound, I will still probally lose 1 to an armor save failure. Numbers are on the orks side. He can attrit me faster than I can attrit him.

My oponent likes to focus 2 Boys squads on one Tactical squad then pound them with Lootas. By the time a squad is in rapid fire or charge range I am already below 50% and sinking like the Titanic.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

mgtymouze, have you tried tactics like roadblock rush to limit your ork friends lanes of fire? Denying those boyz line of sight to your own squads with throw-away vehicles can help you to force him to where you want his stuff to go. (Like bottlenecking his boyz through smaller gaps in terrain or forcing them to move through difficult terrain to hinder their progress while you do something else with your own forces.)


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## Deceiver (Sep 19, 2007)

when I play my necrons all I hear is the crying of wbb and all the teleporting out of combat. when I play my sm,it's about all the assault cannons. Ea. army has something "broken" about them. 

Terrain,los,range,etc.. all play a part. It's all about adapt and overcome. 
If you play an anti tank list vs a horde army opp., then yes, you are in a world of hurt.

There are so many variables. The mission,terrain,deployment,tactics and who goes 1rst can also help or hinder the army list being played. "Broken army" thing is just psychological. Work on the variables.


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## Sieg (Dec 3, 2007)

Or you can just do what I do. Take out your Raven Guard army any they will be so confused about why you are playing RG they will forget to shoot you as you just charge in and kill. Nice to see you here too darkreever.


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## Purge (Mar 24, 2008)

Orks are frickin hard,no doubt about it. My chaos army got caned last week by a 1500pt ork army...i just couldn't believe the amount of shooting...and they're surprisingly fast with their Waaagh! thing...

I have beaten the new ork army though... Ordnance weapons and lots of them...Orks really suffer against any sort of blast weaponry.

There are ways to beat the new orks, you just need to discover them.


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## SyNide (Nov 24, 2007)

Lol...Ork Codex broken? Nay, tough to fight, if used properly.

But i've played against an Ork player with the new codex on a few occasions and i've found that tactics play a large part in dealing with the Ork army. Sure he didn't play large mobs of 30, but he did have lots of boys in trucks and boys on bikes. As stated by Deceiver, use LoS, range, terrain, etc...keep out of their range, make them overextend themselves. By doing this you can pick them apart. An unsupported mob is not that hard to take down when you know how to keep your army together.


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

how would Black Templars deal with the new Orks?


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

New orks are tough, no doubt (my record with new orks is approx 6 wins per loss), but they really only excel in the short-mid range (assault range to 18" before movement). If your opponent is playing horde orks with giant shoota mobs, hit him in one spot of his forces at a time rather than being dispersed. This is the standard anti-horde tactic and it still works great.

Orks have the hardest time dealing with vehicles of any army. Any effective anti-vehicle units they have can be wiped off the board fairly easily with some long range fire.

Lootas are very weak to melee and being shot at and have problems with target priority once you kill off some models. They also use heavy weapons, so they have to hang their fairly vulnerable selves out where they can be shot in order to be effective. I've wiped out 2 squads of 10 from across the board on the first round in a 1500pt game with a typical tau army even though they were in 4+ cover. Average rolls. You just have to realize the threat they represent if you leave them alone and deal with them with long range weaponry. If your army is lacking these kinds of weapons, you're in trouble for specializing too much in close range or assault. A breakneck dash with fast units/drop pods/etc. can deal with them fairly well.

Really, orks are strongest against armies made to deal with MEQs or armies that lack any heavy tanks (I've steamrolled thousand sons armies). To date though, I've never been beaten by Orks (fought them twice as tau, once as nids, and twice as Orks) except once when we were both playing Orks. With Tau I shot up his army in order of threat to me by killing off the lootas, then bikers/transports, then mopping up. With Tyranids I outmeleed them by ganging up my stealers to tear apart one mob at a time. 

Broken? Nah. Highly effective at short range? Oh yeah. Don't play their game. If you're using elite units like chaos, hit them in one spot. Don't charge the whole mob, just part of it (if you can set up your charge that way). They may have the best basic soldier for its points but they're definitely not unbeatable.


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

I know that Orks are beatable but it is frusterating to see what was a deadly close combat army become a weak close combat army and so deadly with shooting. 

If you "mathhammer" this, you have a 30 man shoota armed (not counting any shootas upgraded to big shootas) mob going against a 10 man CSM squad with orks causing 8.33 wounds compared to the CSM causing 3.33. A 15 man loota squad that gets off 2 shots per should cause 6.93 wounds per turn at twice the range of a CSM squad. Looking at both these options, if running a 10 man CSM squad, I no longer have a scoring unit after a shooting phase.

Unfortunately, if the Ork player can't see me that means I can't see him. If the game objective is the center of the table or something where I have to move to an objective, the Ork player is always at an advantage with a majority of his weapons being assault weapons with a decent range.


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## Norkroff (Apr 9, 2008)

*how to piss of an ork player*

The trick against orks is to try and i'm saying 'try' to out number them and if you can't do that then get high armoured vehicles against them and send them at the ork players troops to piss them off.


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## Pariah Mk.231 (Mar 2, 2008)

Drop any tanks in your Heavy Support and pick up a Defiler/Vindicator and 2 squads of havocs with missile launchers. Next take a full squad of Terminators with whatever Icon you like and a pair of heavy flamers, and a unit or two of Daemonic Speed-Bumps. Limit your basic squads to heavy bolters (they're cheap, and throw out alot of firepower). Throw in some Bikers/Raptors with flamers.

Now, deploy far back so even if he gets first turn, and split your army into 2 parts on opposite sides of your zone, he may not make it into shoota range, remember you're still getting power armour saves from the deffgunz. If you get first turn, your heavy weapons will still be in range. Hold the Terminators for Deep Strike.
Next, move your fast units up around a flank (deploy them closer than the rest of the army but behind cover) and try to get them into rapid fire range. Then, ignore (Ld10 is great for priority tests) any fast units he has and concerntrate all fire into the massive mobs, using your heavy bolters to dish out a storm of fire power and fire frags from all your missile launchers to cover as many Orks as possible. The Defiler/Vindicator should be able to really hurt a mob by itself. 
If your fast units are in range, then charge, you should be able to at least hold a mob up for a turn, longer if you combine charges, possibly wiping them out and running into the next mob.
When he gets his next, his fast units should make it into combat, but it's ok, you'll strike first and be more likely to kill off his boys than he is to drop your marines. And if your units are in combat, who does he shoot?! If there are still units out of combat, he wont be able to bring all his guns to bear on those units because he needs alot of room to deploy that many boys and alot will be out of range.
Don't worry about your marines being in combat, because if the plan works, there wont be a second wave of Orks to back up those small units of trukker boys.

Here's where it comes down to chance. Hopefully you roll well and your Terminators show up, so drop them between your units now in combat and the shoota boys, making sure to land them in flamer range. If your Daemons show up at the same time, you can deploy them from one of your marine squads and use them to help take care of the mobs in your lines. But hopefully they rock up next turn.
All available firepower continues to pound the shoota mobs, but only after the Terminators unleash their flamers so your opponent doesn't remove models the templates would cover. Remember that you should try to wipe a squad out instead of trying to soften up as many units as possible.

Hopefully you hurt his firepower enough that at least the Terminator with the Icon lives through the return fire (this only matters if they show up the turn before the Daemons).
With a juicy target right in front of them, the shoota boys should target them instead of your unengaged units, meaning you'll have more left in your main force for later turns.
On turn 3, you should be in a position to snatch a victory from the horde by the end of the game, depending on how your luck holds out.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

What I find odd is that under the current rules, Orks are very very hard. Eldar Skimmer heavy lists are one of the best builds against them. Under the rumored 5th edition rules, Orks will own even the Eldar. I'm still looking for the balance.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Hespithe said:


> What I find odd is that under the current rules, Orks are very very hard. Eldar Skimmer heavy lists are one of the best builds against them. Under the rumored 5th edition rules, Orks will own even the Eldar. I'm still looking for the balance.


Due to large mob sizes orks will be unable to shoot past each other. Lootas will suck a lot when you've got a table covered in boyz because they won't be able to get LoS past your friendly units.


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

Lootas are smaller squads (for Orks) and terrain can be found to allow them to shoot over their fellow WHaaaaaaaagh'ers. Many people are not taking into account the terrain when they say that shooty armies are not as strong as they should be in 5th. They are weaker, but smaller units can still lay down a ton of firepower, and Orks will excell at this. Up to 45 autocannon shots from only 15 infantry models? Please tell me you won't have trouble finding a place for them.


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## dakari-mane (Mar 9, 2007)

*NEWS FLASH - ORK CODEX BROKEN - THOUSANDS OF ORK PLAYERS DEAD CHUFFED*

One ork player has been quoted as saying "Ow's it feel now ya panzy git! Boots on da uvva foot nar innit!"

:victory: :taunt:


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## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

Culler said:


> Due to large mob sizes orks will be unable to shoot past each other. Lootas will suck a lot when you've got a table covered in boyz because they won't be able to get LoS past your friendly units.


Friendly models dont block LOS.

Heres how I would deal with this so called broken Ork army.. its pretty easily actually.

Tau can unload on them with far more close or long range firepower. Think Stealth units, Devilfish, and Large Blast templates from Hammerheads. Oh yeah... lots of splatting.

Space Marines can use Whirlwinds, Land Raider Crusaders, Terminators (yay for choppas not cutting your armor anymore) and Heavy Bolters *at range*.

Grey Knights... oh can we say Orbital Bombardment!! Yes! Storm Bolters at 24 inches! Oh heck yea.. I can stay outa their 18 range EZ.

Chaos... Defilers with their Battle Cannons, Death Guard on the Assualt, not Icon Nurgle Marines but real deal Death Guard w/ T5 (wound on 5s), 3+AS, and FNP with 2 Flamers in each squad. Yeah it will take an entire squads shooting to drop a single DG. Full squads of Terminators with Icons of Nurlge would work well to. Have a sorcerer spew wind of chaos in their face.

Necrons... Monolith and warriors. Nough said.

Tyrannids... Cheap guants so they are without number, Ripper Swarms upgraded to 5+ Saves (3wounds a piece should slow down their shooting) and lots of Fast/CC Warriors.

Guard... Heavy Bolters or mortars in the back field, Flamer heavy on the troops, Ogryns, Carapace armor, and can we say Basillisks!

I wont dirty my tongue talking about Smeldar.. but Im sure Smeldar players know what to do.

I think that covers the main armies out there.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> Friendly models dont block LOS.


He is referring to 5th Ed where they WILL block los. I find that the Ork codex is a tad on the overpowered side but I haven't had many games against they yet to truly decide. I do know that 5th Ed will make them king of the hill by default.


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

I have to disagree Bishop, Plague Marines on the assault are only I 3 striking the same time as most Ork units. I find that they work best as a defensive unit with the blight grenades. I believe that the best bet is vanilla CSM at 20 strong trying to move under cover until I can get into close combat. 

I keep hearing options for tailoring a list to beat Orks. Great; if I am only playing against an ork player. So what happens when I go to a tournament? Do I just hope I don't see the four 30 man shoota boy squads backed with Lootas and a shok attack gun with other crap? 

I have never before said a codex was broken until now. Saying it is broken is a bit extreme, but when orks are more dangerous shooting than in CC something seems very wrong.


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## SyNide (Nov 24, 2007)

Nothing is wrong with an army being good at more than one thing mgtymouze...It doesn't mean they are broken. They aren't broken as long as they have their weaknesses, so lets look at this for a moment.

The Ork army you talk about is the 4 squads of 30 shoota boys and lootas. Perhaps if you stopped concentrating on their strengths and thought about their weakness you could find a way to beat them. Is that a fast army? Don't think so. Is it a Tough army? Not with the right weapons. Do they have long range weapons? Nope. 

The Shoota has an 18" range, with only 6" movement they have a 20" threat radius, and even that threat radius isn't going to encompass ALL the boys...Only the few front ones can shoot and with a BS of 2, few of them are going to hit. As stated before you should take havocs with 4 heavy bolters...Or perhaps if you aren't used to defensive play, then how about trying the Rhino Rush? Have 3 Havoc squads with 6 men 4 flamers in Rhinos...Played well they can be devastating to any army, not just orks.

Others have found the keys to beating the army, perhaps you could try those out?


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## Pariah Mk.231 (Mar 2, 2008)

The method I descibed isn't just useful against Orks, it's a fairly all-round force that can take on most armies. You've got weight of fire from the heavy bolters to drop alot infantry, and enough missile launchers to crack open any vehicle that comes your way.
You've got some speed to get close to the enemy fast, and a reserve force that the enemy can't touch until they show up. 
The only problem is the lack of cult troops, but that's just my prefference. Personally, I'd trade out the defiler for some beserkers because that's what I have in my army.


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## SyNide (Nov 24, 2007)

Oh yeah, i completely forgot about Defilers...Those are sweet! You can even have them charge after that! Absolutely lovely.


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## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

I would put a Death Guard heavy army against ANY army... except possibly Thousand Sons but I still believe I could beat TS in the long run (at least on average). I just dont understand how people can not see the strength and power of DG. Init 3 is not a death sentence to someone who is tougher than nails and feels no pain. Added in with the ability to work effectively in small units with multiple special weapons and removing your benefits for assaulting... I believe DG to be the most broken unit in the game but they are broken so subtlety that people dont realize it.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

I think it is a very close run between the Death Guard and the Thousand Sons. I have had a couple of games vs the DG with my Sons and each time it has been a viscous and bloody affair that ended in a draw. I had a hard time getting past the FNP while he had a particularly hard time with the 4+ Inv save. Of all the Legion troops in the codex, DG and TS came out far ahead of the others, hands down.

Heh, might be why I don't hate the new codex as much as some as I -may- be biased :grin:


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Thousand sons are ace with them having a force weapon in there basic units, and the 4+ inv save as well one of the best troop choices in the game. They should be able to defeat Death guard


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

but theyve also made orks costs as many points as a single guardsman and 1 ork could definitely rape 1 guardsman. this is letting them field more units that are better, so it really isnt fair.


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## chrisman 007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Seconded. A guy with orks wiped my guard army of the in TWO TURNS with orks. They all had 4+ saves! I swear they all have 6+ except 'ards. And the trukks! I must say, it's a nice feature the kareen. but 3d6"? A little too far. It makes orks in trukks almost certain to get to your lines.

EDIT: Wait a sec, 'ards are 0-1 limit. So how come he had all orks with 4+? Got me some killin' ta do...


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## Hespithe (Dec 26, 2006)

I played as my Emo-Necs against a Speed Freak list using the new Ork 'Dex and was wiped from the board by turn 5. It was a fun game, against one of my fave opponents, but I was truly surprised by how much the army was improved. I know that a good bit of the game turnout was due to my own errors, but those incidents that blew my mind were not things that I could deal with or prevent.

Honestly, I've always liked the Orks and am happy that the new 'Dex is showing them a bit of GW's love. I'm also concerned that GW's habit of swinging the pendulum too far has taken on new life in both major game systems.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

mgtymouze said:


> I remember everyone complaining about the new Chaos codex and how it was broke, but it is nothing compared to what the new ork codex is!
> 
> Over the past 3 days I have watched the guy who playes orks in my gaming group destroy my chaos army twice, a tyranid army, a dark eldar army, and 2 Space Marine armies with SHOOTING!!!! I understand that Orks only have a BS of 2 but when you have 2 full shoota boy squads hitting a 10 to 15 man unit with 120 shots the numbers are in the Ork's favor. Back these up with 2 full loota squads and another squad is pretty much dead.
> 
> ...


Dont try and beat em, join em :grin:


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Bishop120 said:


> I would put a Death Guard heavy army against ANY army... except possibly Thousand Sons but I still believe I could beat TS in the long run (at least on average). I just dont understand how people can not see the strength and power of DG. Init 3 is not a death sentence to someone who is tougher than nails and feels no pain. Added in with the ability to work effectively in small units with multiple special weapons and removing your benefits for assaulting... I believe DG to be the most broken unit in the game but they are broken so subtlety that people dont realize it.


I actually didn't have much trouble with the DG army I played as orks. DG do resist ork shooting really really well, and that was a major obstacle, but I ended up tearing through them with power klaws. DG are really tough but they're short-ranged and not offensively impressive. Typically, his squad would take down a few boyz, the boyz would drag 1 DG model down, and then the powerklaw would kill off a couple DG. I was losing a few more boyz than he was losing DG, but I had a whole lot more to lose.


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## hearthlord (Nov 16, 2007)

I've been reading this thread with amusement. Shoota boyz have a 6+ sv and the one unit of ard boyz have a 4+ sv. Does nobody have Hvy bolters? Or does nobody have ord? Are ap6 weapons rare? Are ap4 weapons rare?

I would never make shoota boyz into ard boyzs because the 4+ sv is useless against most long range weapons. 

Now if your army is spec. against a MEQ army then a green horde might be difficult. Not impossible but difficult. Shoot than move. Repeat. You did buy transports? 

I play mostly orks and squats (Space Marines codex). If there were another ork player to play against I would be happy to deploy either of my armies.

I would also be happy to deploy IG, Tau, Chaos, or DE.

No problem with any other codex, just not familar with the others.

Orks are not broken, just not chumps.:mrgreen:


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

As far as transports and my defiler; the lootas, shok attack gun, and battle wagon took those out by the end of turn 3 in both games. The four thirty man shoota boy squads with 3 big shootas intermixed per squad,out shot my troops and Heavy support. If you refer to my earlier post about using mathhammer you will see that statistics are in the orks favor and each of these 4 squads can reduce a 10 man space marine squad to a non scoring unit in an "average" shooting phase.

I do understand that i can custom build an army just to fight the orks. That does me no good in a tournament though, where an army built to fight this will probally get slaughtered by any other army. If I were inclined I could run a noise marine army loaded with sonic blasters, doom sirens, and blastmasters that would dish out almost as much damage to orks as they do to me but would get it's ass handed to it by Eldar or Tau. 

Oh and Bishop, Noise Marines are just as broke as Death Guard by your definition. S4, assault 2, 24" range with a sonic blaster or S5, assault 2, 36" range, pinning with a Blast Master along with I5 troopies. These are ballpark with cost of plague marines and as good on the move as they are in H2H.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I consistently have won against the new Ork codex. It's hardly broken-- it just takes more than leaning on a codex that was printed sometime in the last 5 years to beat them, now. It IS a strategy game, after all... 

Almost irrespective of what they bring, Orks have major weaknesses that aren't hard to exploit-- low armour save and high numbers. Now, initially, you're going to tell me that high numbers aren't a weakness, but if you're playing with any reasonable amount of terrain on the board, you can set up with a refused flank and force them to hit you in quite managable waves.


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## SyNide (Nov 24, 2007)

You lost? Then perhaps it's not the list, but your playstyle?

I know many times in the past when i would blame my defeat on my opponent's broken army, but i grew out of it, decided, no, it's not the Codex thats broken, but my tactics(broken in the bad way :X). 

Orks are definitely harder to beat now, but that doesn't mean that the dex is broken. You have a great many tools at your disposal(playing Chaos), but tools get you only so far, you have to make that final push. Think of "What should i DO during deployment and the rest of the game to beat him?" Instead of going "What can i change in my list?" or "How broken is that!?". Take all that effort that you put into arguing that the dex is broken, and channel it into researching tactics(there are tactical articles online), playtest as much as you can. Play on Vassal if you can't find anyone to play with, play with the best so that you learn from them. Most of all, overcome that barrier in your mind that says an army is cheesy/broken/beardy/etc...

Because when it comes down to it, you're playing a "broken" army too


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

Dude, no one I play with has beaten the Orks yet. 6 people with 2 different armies each have had the same ammount of success. The only force we haven't thrown against it is Eldar. I have tried to think outside the box but short of building an army to just fight this, I cannot figure out what to do. 

I will give the ork player I play against this though; he does space his models 1.5 to 2" apart to minimize the effects of template/ord weapons. Also he lines up the shootas lengthwise with a full frontal coverage as he advances.

The point cost to damage prospective ratio is irritating. The reason I said this is broken is because that the orks should be more dangerous in hand to hand than shooting, which is the exact oposite at the moment. My CSM or Dark Angels should have a tough fight in hand to hand instead of a unit reduced to non scoring wiping the floor with orks but being in the state they are because of shooting.


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## Sinizter (Dec 10, 2007)

I've played Orks several times with my Bile unstable mutation MoK themed army, and won. They are much more effective but not broken.

30 Orks charge 10 Chaos Marine. Only 20 Orks get into CC range.
Chaos strikes first with 31 attacks. 15 hits, 9 wounds (powerfist) is 8-9 dead Orks on average. 11 get 33 attacks back. 16 hits, 8 wounds, 2-3 dead CSM.

Post pile in the Orks are cooked as they are at lower Initiative, and S3. 

However thats a bad example as typically the Orks will take so much fire they'll be at near 50% before they reach shoota range much less assault.

The perks of running Havoc squads with 2 AC's, and 2 HB's per sqaud. 

Loota's while good for their points are easily routed. 10 Loota's take 3 casualties in a single turn, they are at LD7 and have to take a morale check. Not a good situation to be in. 

So basically they've been redone to definitely make them a competitive army when used properly they are far from broken. However as more, and more Xenos armies become popular the old school anti-MEQ marine lists are going to suffer.

Because I've noticed at the game store I frequent more and more Xenos armies. Many players have gone to Eldar, a lot of Ork armies are being made. The Marines numbers are dwindling. Even Chaos as cheesy as the lash lash combo is supposed to be has dropped way down in numbers.


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