# Crossbows versus Handguns - Empire



## Turnip86 (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm putting together an updated Empire army I plan on building and this question keeps cropping up. 

It comes down to this; does the improved range of crossbowmen outweigh the fact Handguns are armour piercing? 

I know that in a standard game with a 6x4 board crossbows should be in range to shoot on turn one even if you go first (with good placement) but will the extra turn of shooting do more damage than the extra -1 to armour saves over the course of a battle?

I know it's more complex than that as well because crossbows will have more targets to shoot at generally but what are people's thoughts?

I'm still leaning towards handguns because I like the idea of black powder weapons but if anyone can give a really good argument in favour of crossbows I might be persuaded to change my mind


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## kain1989 (Dec 1, 2009)

personally, I'd rather play against handguns than crossbows, the 30 inch range means they are generally shooting every turn. and they are still strenghth 4. armor piercing from handguns is nice, but empire has plenty of thing to deal with armor. but i think they perform the same role pretty well either way.

but I don't see either one being a wrong choice, i'd go with handguns because you like them better.


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## DecrepitDragon (Aug 2, 2011)

In some ways, it depends on your play style. And that is something only you can judge.

In other ways however, it depends on who you are playing against.

If for example, you play against horde like armies, with little or no armour, then the extra round of shooting can go a long way towards gaining the upper-hand.

If you tend to play high armour elite armies, such as Chaos or Brettonians, then the ability to ensure more failed saves may be of more use to you than an extra round of shooting, especially if the enemy is also fast across the table.

Basically, go with what feels right to you.k:


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## ExtraCrew (Jan 22, 2012)

I think the biggest argument for crossbows is range but not 30" its half range of 15". I have handguns in my empire army more cause it from Nuln. Being able to hit better at a little longer range is a big plus. 

DecrepitDragon: has it right also about who you are playing against.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Having played WE for a long time and beat endless dwarf/empire gunlines by sitting my units at ~27" and laughing I have to say I don't rate 24" range move or fire guns. I leave my opponents with the choice of marching forward (where I can try to move closer to get into 15" and cause havoc with my S4 shooting), bodging forward a bit (which doesn't work since I can move backward 3" and still shoot) or just sitting there and taking it... few ever think of marching straight at me as they are too used to staying still (and dryads will often be marching forward in a forest somewhere close).

AP isn't that necessary... but then I would take one of the lores of magic which grants it anyway (fire/metal) since I think those lores complement empire quite well


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## Turnip86 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheers for all the replies.

As for who I'll be up against? Down at the flgs (3000 miles away) I'll be playing a massive mix of people but of the 3 games I played there last time I was in the UK I faced 2 Brets and 1 Dwarf army (this was with my ogres a month before the new book came out). I know that there are a few WoC armies around, some high elves and more empire along with a couple of O&G armies. In fact the only armies I've not seen anyone play there are skaven and wood elves, I'm sure someone must play them but I've never seen anyone bring their stuff down to play.

Next question then if I can't decide. Are the handgun and Crossbow arms attached in the same way? Basically would it be easy to magnetize them and just swap depending on what I feel like playing on the day?  I only ask because the arms for the pistoliers and outriders are modelled completely differently and it requires replacing quite a bit of the model to have both units from one box.


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## misfratz (Feb 9, 2012)

Why not use both?

In my Empire army I saw handguns as belonging to the more well-trained part of the army - the Elector Count's standing army - while the crossbows were wielded by militia or mercenary elements that were adding to the numbers at this desperate time of need.

Of course, on a typical day of bad luck you'll find that your handguns are marginally out of range while the only viable target for your crossbows is a unit of heavily-armed knights [ie each unit will be in the wrong place] but I'd have thought that in a general sense having a few smaller, different units would make your army more flexible.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

If you are taking both then handgunners belong in units so they can take longrifles but crossbows don't really gain anything from that so should be in detatchments if possible if they can to help on deployment and reduce panic checks (plus extra stand and shoot).


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