# Female Commissar?



## tau112 (Jun 30, 2010)

Hey Guys,
I was looking at some pics of imperial guard when I saw a female commissar come up and I was wondering could the Imperial Guard have Female Commissar's?
Any thought welcome!
Tau112


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

You sort of answered your own question really, you've seen a picture of one! I shouldn't see why there should not be female Commissar's, they have female Guard soldiers!


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Yep guard are one of the few none space elf armies that have females in every role. In fact although their is no models it has been mentioned that some imperial commanders and generals are female, although unlike female guardsmen, and commisars these are even more rare.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> Yep guard are one of the few none space elf armies that have females in every role. In fact although their is no models it has been mentioned that some imperial commanders and generals are female, although unlike female guardsmen, and commisars these are even more rare.


AND kills even more guards.


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## Ezikio (Oct 8, 2009)

There is a female Commissar General in the gaunt ghosts books.

http://gauntsghostspedia.wikia.com/wiki/Commissar-General_Viktoria_Balshin


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

This is covered in _Cain`s last Stand_.

As stated above, there are female IG regiments, so naturally there would be female commissars to attach to them. :wink:


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## BrainFreeze (Oct 9, 2008)

Yes the IG have female commissar's..I even have a model for one.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> This is covered in _Cain`s last Stand_.
> 
> As stated above, there are female IG regiments, so naturally there would be female commissars to attach to them. :wink:


I didn't know there were all female regiments, then again I don't read any of the gaurd novels. guess maybe I should prolly missing out on some good fluff.


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## tau112 (Jun 30, 2010)

Ok wow ok didn't know entire regiment!


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Ezikio said:


> There is a female Commissar General in the gaunt ghosts books.
> 
> http://gauntsghostspedia.wikia.com/wiki/Commissar-General_Viktoria_Balshin


That uniform looks a tad impractical.


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## VX485 (Feb 17, 2011)

Segregation to stop constant fratenisation. When you've got no other alternitive the ugly ones suddenly become popular(this is true)


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

google.........









And you can get them on ebay, but £30 each is a bit much


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

jimmy gunn said:


> google.........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that a official Female Commissar from GW?


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

Ezikio said:


> There is a female Commissar General in the gaunt ghosts books.
> 
> http://gauntsghostspedia.wikia.com/wiki/Commissar-General_Viktoria_Balshin


Commissar-General Viktoria.... I think I am in love. If I were a Guard grunt, she could severely repremanded me any time. She could even flog me if I was that naughty! :laugh:


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> Is that a official Female Commissar from GW?



it is the limited edition female commissar from games day 1998.


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

There is a commisar officer in gaunts 'the armour of contempt' she is actually a big bos type kinda person


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Yep female commissars are 100% fluff legit as are female guardsmen as models for both where once released...hope you like pewter.


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## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

jimmy gunn said:


> google.........
> 
> And you can get them on ebay, but £30 each is a bit much


Really, $60 a piece? I got mine for free.


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## constantin_valdor (Apr 8, 2011)

Ezikio said:


> There is a female Commissar General in the gaunt ghosts books.
> 
> http://gauntsghostspedia.wikia.com/wiki/Commissar-General_Viktoria_Balshin


Not pratical for war now is it lol seems more like a teenage boys fantasy (40k dominatrix anyone.....), i would have imagined balshin to look like a female sky marshall from starship troopers


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

Ezikio said:


> There is a female Commissar General in the gaunt ghosts books.
> 
> http://gauntsghostspedia.wikia.com/wiki/Commissar-General_Viktoria_Balshin


 Also a female Commisarial cadet in the Ciaphas Cain series.
(on an aside note, they also answered one other fantasy of the fans, yes, the Sisters of Battle ARE revealed to be aware and embrace the "birds and the bees")


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Wish they would go a with a more cruel, and realistic design for the female officers/soldiers in the guard. I imagine half of them would be twice as psychotic and merciless as male counterparts to get to were they are in the guard. The kind of woman that you would probably not want to sleep with no matter what they looked like out of fear of them cutting your junk off if you looked at them wrong.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

LukeValantine said:


> Wish they would go a with a more cruel, and realistic design for the female officers/soldiers in the guard. I imagine half of them would be twice as psychotic and merciless as male counterparts to get to were they are in the guard. The kind of woman that you would probably not want to sleep with no matter what they looked like out of fear of them cutting your junk off if you looked at them wrong.


Nobody wants to read about that. :no:


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## Anarkitty (Jul 29, 2008)

Chompy Bits said:


> That uniform looks a tad impractical.


She's a Commissar, a tight latex outfit and a greatcoat is plenty practical.
Think about it: there is little or no reason for her to ever have to run, the greatcoat is probably reinforced to be as strong as any flak armor, it still looks plenty intimidating, and if anyone is caught ogling her she has the right to summarily execute them.
Some people just like the feel of wearing latex. Commissars can get away with indulging.
And if the shit hits the fan, she can button up the greatcoat like most male commissars do. You just _know_ some of _them_ are wearing frilly panties and suspenders under their coats, anyway.


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

Last I checked Latex was part of YOUR fantasies not canon, and canon says there are female commissars and that they are treated no diffrently from the male ones. (case in point, while not a paticular canon example like the female commisar General and the cadet from Cain's Last Stand, read the excellent original work The Ragged Edges of Raege for a fairly well written and polished example of a female commissar as a primary character, Commissar Konrad "Connie" Raege) 

On an aside note, has anyone else noticed the huge market for fiction about female commisars and yet no one has tapped into it? I must rectify this.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Nothing gives you more respect than showing your tits in front of soldiers who have been fighting in mud and blood for months without even being able to picture a woman in front of you.  But as said, she would be so welcome to me at any time. :biggrin:


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

forkmaster said:


> Nothing gives you more respect than showing your tits in front of soldiers who have been fighting in mud and blood for months without even being able to picture a woman in front of you.  But as said, she would be so welcome to me at any time. :biggrin:


one thing I'd like to point out, Female commisars are only EVER assigned to all woman or co-ed regiments, so in other words, most of the soldiers could care less about the quality of the commissar's rack.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Nicholas Hadrian said:


> one thing I'd like to point out, Female commisars are only EVER assigned to all woman or co-ed regiments, so in other words, most of the soldiers could care less about the quality of the commissar's rack.


Do you have a citation for that? It seems really unnecessary and limiting. Female soldiers fight in primarily male regiments (Tanith 1st), why shouldn't female Commissars be attached to male, or mixed, regiments? Surely a Commissar worth their cap has no fear of the men indulging their fantasies. Commissars are figures to be feared, if a Commissar is doing their job right it won't matter whether they got boobs or not, the soldiers will still piss themselves if she looks at them wrong.

Also as previously mentioned, there is a female Commissar in the First and Only books. She is a commanding officer. One does not rise to that sort of level by being restricted to female only regiments. 

And Forkmaster: You do realize that any punishment she deals out to you will almost certainly involve a bolt shell right? Don't care what the lady looks like, I ain't gonna let her shoot me.


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

MEQinc said:


> Do you have a citation for that? It seems really unnecessary and limiting. Female soldiers fight in primarily male regiments (Tanith 1st), why shouldn't female Commissars be attached to male, or mixed, regiments? Surely a Commissar worth their cap has no fear of the men indulging their fantasies.


Ok first off, the same applies to men, a male commissar is never attached to a all female regiment, and yes, women and men DO fight alongside each other, hence why I mentioned CO-EDUCATIONAL regiments, meaning regiments containing BOTH men and women, THESE ARE FREE GAME FOR EITHER GENDER OF COMMISSAR. This is not due to a fear of "Men indulging their fantasies" it's military regulations, and since it's a commissar, a male commisar in a female regiment or vise-versa is ASKING for sexual harassment, which considering even the nature of the guard, is a no no.



MEQinc said:


> Commissars are figures to be feared, if a Commissar is doing their job right it won't matter whether they got boobs or not, the soldiers will still piss themselves if she looks at them wrong.


hence why it still works in CO-ED regiments,



MEQinc said:


> Also as previously mentioned, there is a female Commissar in the First and Only books. She is a commanding officer. One does not rise to that sort of level by being restricted to female only regiments.


once again, yes YOU BLOODY WELL CAN, BECAUSE THEY DO IT FOR MEN TOO! and also, I said, EITHER all female, or Co-ed regiments take female commisars, you do not have male commissars for all female regiments, you do not have female commissars for all male regiments



MEQinc said:


> And Forkmaster: You do realize that any punishment she deals out to you will almost certainly involve a bolt shell right? Don't care what the lady looks like, I ain't gonna let her shoot me.


It only appeals to him because he likes S&M, you know, nazi uniform, black leather boot, whip, ect.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Nicholas Hadrian said:


> Ok first off, the same applies to men, a male commissar is never attached to a all female regiment, and yes, women and men DO fight alongside each other, hence why I mentioned CO-EDUCATIONAL regiments, meaning regiments containing BOTH men and women, THESE ARE FREE GAME FOR EITHER GENDER OF COMMISSAR.


1) Sorry I misunderstood you, no reason to shout.
2) Still looking for a source on this.



> and since it's a commissar, a male commisar in a female regiment or vise-versa is ASKING for sexual harassment, which considering even the nature of the guard, is a no no.


I`m not sure what you mean by this. Are you suggesting that the troops would harass the Commissar, or that the Commissar would harass the troops? The first is easily dealt with by, you know, shooting any offenders. The second, well, I imagine a strict brain-washing program like the Schola would teach its Commissar not to behave in such a manner. Plus there`s generally more than one Commissar attached to a regiment and thus they can act as checks on each other.



> It only appeals to him because he likes S&M, you know, nazi uniform, black leather boot, whip, ect.


I see no mention of getting shot there. :wink:


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

Serpion5 said:


> Nobody wants to read about that. :no:


Actualy.......


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## constantin_valdor (Apr 8, 2011)

Nicholas Hadrian said:


> one thing I'd like to point out, Female commisars are only EVER assigned to all woman or co-ed regiments, so in other words, most of the soldiers could care less about the quality of the commissar's rack.


On the subject on female commissars serving in only female regiments etc or mixed sexed regiments can i ask where does it state in god knows how many years or fluff/ books does it state its explicitly? Yes it might make common sense but i can see a ruthless female commissar in an all male regiment after all if a male soldier makes lewd comments about her...bolt round comes a whistling etc so unless there is clear cut evidence clearly stating that females serve only in female regiments im just going to assume that it wouldnt matter about sex at the end of the day as a commissar is a person to fear not fantasize about. It would also be handy to list your sources where it says this.


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

MEQinc said:


> 1) Sorry I misunderstood you, no reason to shout.
> 2) Still looking for a source on this.


Not shouting, emphasis, i'm used to emphasizing words with capitalisation.
Cain's Last Stand



MEQinc said:


> 1) I`m not sure what you mean by this. Are you suggesting that the troops would harass the Commissar, or that the Commissar would harass the troops? The first is easily dealt with by, you know, shooting any offenders. The second, well, I imagine a strict brain-washing program like the Schola would teach its Commissar not to behave in such a manner. Plus there`s generally more than one Commissar attached to a regiment and thus they can act as checks on each other.


also, considering the fact that there are regiments that MURDER their commissars, rape, molestation, blackmail and a plethora of other things I would not put past them. 

Considering there are still heretic commissars and commissars who DO manipulate their men quite extensively to settle personal grudges, I wouldnt put a little hanky panky past them, (see the Traitor's Hand and Commissar Beje or however you spell it).

For all of the reasons why co-ed regiments or military orginizations of any type are rare in the real world, they still apply to commissars, getting too attached to their troops, falling in love with a trooper, favoritisim, reduce in punishment for favors, sexual or otherwise, just like every other office of the Imperium, the Commissariat is rife with corruption too, it's just better hidden. 

And I am not saying this would be a garuntee to happen, it's the reason for regulations like same sex regiments so it DOESN'T, it removes the chance of it happening, yes a female commissar MIGHT inspire fear in her men more than a male would, yes a bunch of other good things might happen, hell there might even be exceptions, but the point of a regulation is for people to obey so that bad suituations don't happen, they're there so that if a person does something that they shouldnt they can't come along and say "It wasn't in the rule book that we couldn't". 

Also, what gave you the idea multiple commissars to a regiment is common? All the black library books I've read (including the Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghost series) indicate that 2 commissars to a regiment is a rare occurence.


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## constantin_valdor (Apr 8, 2011)

A regiment is typically 300-400 men with multiple companies then divided into platoons then to squads etc etc. The Tanith first had 2 commissars (excluded Gaunt here) Commissar Viktor Hark and Junior commissar Nathun Ludd, now if we take into account the size of regiment it can be assumed that one man/ woman would hard pressed to control that many soldiers/ offciers and would likely have a junior commissar or two. Cain however managed his regiment on his own but with his status and how his regiment performed its likely his superiors didnt assign a junior commissar. So in short i think (and this is just my opinion) that most large guard regiments would have at least a senior commissar at command level and then 1-2 juniors overseeing the dog soldiers. As for saying same sex regiments are rare in the real world and then applying this logic to 40k which is a completely different set of rules and thus saying female commissars might not happen to be posted to a male regiment is stretching it, dont forget this is grimdark and therefore have completely different rules as to what can or cannot happen in a military regiment =)


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Not to mention in real life no modern or even pre-world war army would allow officers to murder their own men with such ease as the imperium. Commissars can shoot you for the most minor of infraction, and if you ever kill or escape a commissars judgment...well lets just say death isn't the worst thing that can happen to you in the imperium. Faced by murder for saying the wrong thing or even looking a bit out of line, I don't think discipline for male soldiers would be a concern. 

Also applying modern military trends to a universe were entire worlds are killed on a whim is bordering on the idiotic.


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

LukeValantine said:


> Not to mention in real life no modern or even pre-world war army would allow officers to murder their own men with such ease as the imperium. Commissars can shoot you for the most minor of infraction, and if you ever kill or escape a commissars judgment...well lets just say death isn't the worst thing that can happen to you in the imperium. Faced by murder for saying the wrong thing or even looking a bit out of line, I don't think discipline for male soldiers would be a concern.
> 
> Also applying modern military trends to a universe were entire worlds are killed on a whim is bordering on the idiotic.


You've never heard of the Eastern front have you? Look up the phrase Russian commissars and revise that opinon.

World war 2 era Russia, if you served as a Russian soldier on the front, there were two lines of Russians, the front lines, and the comissars. The front lines were the fighting men, the back lines were the commissars, armed with machine-guns, trained to shoot deserters on sight. 
If there was a man who was wearing a Russian uniform and unless he was wounded, medical personnel or with specific orders that he could produce in under a minute, they were shot, indescriminately. It was also their practice to either excute any Russian who surrendered if they could or simply refuse to claim them for prisoner exchanges, as far as the Russian army was concerned, if you were captured, you were already dead.
It's part of the reason why Russia was able to break the German blitz and why their loss of life was nearly twice the rest of the combined allied forces.
Oh and by the way? If you read about commissars, they had almost all the same powers as a 40k commissar, including serving as political and discipline officers. So. not so idiotic after all, is it?


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## constantin_valdor (Apr 8, 2011)

Nicholas Hadrian said:


> You've never heard of the Eastern front have you? Look up the phrase Russian commissars and revise that opinon.
> 
> World war 2 era Russia, if you served as a Russian soldier on the front, there were two lines of Russians, the front lines, and the comissars. The front lines were the fighting men, the back lines were the commissars, armed with machine-guns, trained to shoot deserters on sight.
> If there was a man who was wearing a Russian uniform and unless he was wounded, medical personnel or with specific orders that he could produce in under a minute, they were shot, indescriminately. It was also their practice to either excute any Russian who surrendered if they could or simply refuse to claim them for prisoner exchanges, as far as the Russian army was concerned, if you were captured, you were already dead.
> ...


Just because commissars from the old soviet union and 40k commissars have somethings in common doesnt mean that current military logic would apply in the 41st millennium, at the end of the day you cannot apply modern world tactics to the imperial guard, while some regiments do fight like a modern army they also have things like sentinels, flame tanks, chemical warfare tanks so it would be a whole different kind of warfare with mass Armour and infantry charges etc etc so going to back to the whole female commissar argument yes you would most likely be able to justify that a female commissar would be attached to an all male regiment and vice versa


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

constantin_valdor said:


> Just because commissars from the old soviet union and 40k commissars have somethings in common doesnt mean that current military logic would apply in the 41st millennium, at the end of the day you cannot apply modern world tactics to the imperial guard, while some regiments do fight like a modern army they also have things like sentinels, flame tanks, chemical warfare tanks so it would be a whole different kind of warfare with mass Armour and infantry charges etc etc so going to back to the whole female commissar argument yes you would most likely be able to justify that a female commissar would be attached to an all male regiment and vice versa


Just because they have something common is no reason to...
WHERE THE HELL DOES THAT TWISTED LOGIC COME FROM?

For one, just because they have some things NOT in common is NO REASON TO ASSUME THEY DONT APPLY.

You CAN and DO apply modern military tactics to the guard (if by modern you mean 1916) due to their extensive use of trench warfare, squad tactics, attritition based strategy and heavy reliance on propoganda. 

The Imperial Guard is far less "Fictional military with some real stuff thrown in" than it is "Real life military from 100 years ago with sci fi stuff added on".

For an excellent example of modern tactics and regulations in a sci fi setting, try starship troopers, the similarities to the current "War on Terror" are quite eerie, considering the movie's events are supposed to be several hundred years from now. Which, by the way, the Imperial Guard are ALSO based on.

You think their weapons too bizzare to apply?

World war 2 the Germans experimented with guns designed to shoot air and knock planes out of the sky, the British tried to design a spinning firework cartweel of death (the great panajrum), we're currently working on sound and microwave guns to defeat armor and cook men in their suits or shatter their eardrums ala noise marines. 

Some of the ideas we have right now in the field are so out there that even 40K players would call them unrealistic.

And morever beyond the point, the guard were DESIGNED after modern armies, STOLEN BLATANTLY from some (see the Kriegers and WWI era German army, you'll get it)and furthermore, claiming their tactics are diffrent IS NO REASON MODERN MILITARY PROTOCL DOES NOT APPLY WHEN THE LOGIC IS STILL THERE. 

There is a reason (a number of them in fact) behind why Co-ed military organizations are rare and single sex ones are more common, they are reasons that have been around since one man decided to form a spear and shield and go off with his buddies to raid a local village.

There is a reason (aside from sexism and societal descisions) why for a military force that relies EXTENSIVELY on teamwork and squad tactics usually is a boy's club, it's the same reason gays in the military are frowned on. Relationships are usually damaging to the cohesion of the group since in an active relationship they show favoritism to each other, and thus if it comes down to saving your lover or saving your sergeant, which would you do? Hmm?

The other reason breakups are painful and usually the two dont want to be near each other, if you're in a squad together well that's not happening and usually breaks the cohesion EVEN MORE.

For guardsmen, the things they are fighting are SO horrifying that if one man starts to run it could cause a whole regiment to rout, it's why deserters are excecuted on sight for cowardice because if they DONT deal with threats to the squad cohesion the results could be very bad.

Now, yes, there are exceptions, some regiments morale is not such a concern for instance, or say the commanding officer feels that it has no real effect. Fine, but DON'T assume it's the norm and try to apply it to other suituations, because it's not, that is a blantant logical fallacy.

And all of this would affect a commissar EVEN MORE, they're supposed to be impartial for one, it's how the men can take their buddies being shot by their own side, knowing the commissar didn't necessarily want to do it and that they can put the blame on the idiot who got shot. 

But, now supposing your ex broke up with you, cheated on you, did something to ruin your relationship and you could have them legally shot, there are a number (A GREAT NUMBER) who would in a heartbeat, and when the commissar starts shooting people with no real justification that's where mutinies start.

And of course the thing about ALL of this is, these are the things that COULD happen, and wont neccsisarily happen, there plenty of commissars that would not have the problems, but the thing is, rules and regulations arent there to stop the people who wouldnt break them anyway, they're there for the minority that WOULD. 

If you were a general and could avoid all these problems by saying "Hey! Keep the men and women seperate so these issues don't arise" you would. 

Simply because having a commander who could show her boobs to the men would not be worth the can of worms you'd be opening.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

She's showing her can too?

Oh, I couldn't resist...


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

constantin_valdor said:


> Just because commissars from the old soviet union and 40k commissars have somethings in common doesnt mean that current military logic would apply in the 41st millennium, at the end of the day you cannot apply modern world tactics to the imperial guard, while some regiments do fight like a modern army they also have things like sentinels, flame tanks, chemical warfare tanks so it would be a whole different kind of warfare with mass Armour and infantry charges etc etc so going to back to the whole female commissar argument yes you would most likely be able to justify that a female commissar would be attached to an all male regiment and vice versa


...You do realize there were such things as flame tanks all the way till flamethrowers were banned,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_tank, mass Armor still used today , and infantry charges WW I+II.


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

Also, a few things I forgot to mention in my tirade, the fact is, (and yes it's sexist) there are alot more women who would respect a male commisar as a female authority than there are men who would accept a woman. Sexist yes, but the fact is, it's part of how the male mind works, yes, the woman MIGHT win the respect of the men, but given the choice, Command will usually take the easier one. Less paperwork for them

Also take into account that diffrent planets have diffrent social mores which is the primary reason for such diversity in the guard, some take diffrent veiws of men and women than others.

On some, the women are the ones who fight and the only people worth respecting are women, they would not accept a male leader anymore then then the opposite would accept a female commissar. Some planets (Cadia being a notable example) they don't care, just throw their regiments together and see them all as soldiers.

There is just the fact that Commissars usually try to ingratiate themselves into their regiment's culture (the smart ones anyway) and if the culture is that women and men serve seperately, dishonoring that is an excellent way for a commissar to end up rubbing his reigment the wrong way.

Finally, the fact is, simple laziness, if a command organization has two commissars of equal skill, one male one female, and have to put them into two diffrent regiments, a female and a male one, they will match up the male to the male regiment and the female to the female regiment simply because it's easiest, it means you dont need to make exceptions, it completely skirts all the issues that COULD arise, raises less objections, it's simpler, it's easier, so why would they make things hard for themselves? Simply put, the military doesn't like to do paperwork any more than you do.


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## noxcard (Oct 23, 2009)

Find this post funny I just bought some SoB models from a local and I got this model in the group. They had it painted to play a part in there SoB army and it looks pretty sweet in it as well.


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## Kitsunex (Mar 8, 2009)

i think somebody needs to invest in a sense of humor.. sheesh.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Nicholas Hadrian said:


> Also, a few things I forgot to mention in my tirade, the fact is, (and yes it's sexist) there are alot more women who would respect a male commisar as a female authority than there are men who would accept a woman. Sexist yes, but the fact is, it's part of how the male mind works, yes, the woman MIGHT win the respect of the men, but given the choice, Command will usually take the easier one. Less paperwork for them


I would note that just because you're a misogynist and you feel that the Army now is, does not mean the Army in 38,000 years time is. You're stupidity is showing, tuck it in. 

I find it odd someone who professes to be as learned as yourself didn't bring up the fact the Russian infantry (which heavily inspires the Imperial Guard) used women on the front line and had female commanding officers. First World War say the epically named Womens Battalion of Death formed with many single sex regiments at this time. But by World War 2 800,000 women served in the Russian Army, many in front line positions, in mixed regiments. With women like Anna Yegorova leading all male units.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

I think you (Nicholas Hadrian) forget the sheer, blinding incompetence of the Administratum.
Just because (in your opinion) such and such a course of action is easier and less hassle means nothing to a megalithic bureau with more heads of department than people in the USA.


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> I would note that just because you're a misogynist and you feel that the Army now is, does not mean the Army in 38,000 years time is. You're stupidity is showing, tuck it in.


Point one, thank you for being highly insulting. 

Point two, I am not a mysongynist, since I am not stating that men are better than women, nor that women shouldn't fight, nor have I ever stated anything of the kind to give the indication that women are inferior, In fact, I'm a big fan of equality, love a woman who CAN kick my ass and prefer someone I can speak to as an equal, any mysoginy you see is in your own mind there because, quite simply, I am not a mysogynist, I'm a misathrope. I AM however stating what I know about the military from having been raised surrounded by it, from having been a military history buff for the vast majority of my life, and

Point three, I find it indescribably annoying when people make assumptions based on poor logic, provably incorrect facts and then claim those "facts" as sancrosanct. Hence why I have defied my better judgement and not said "screw this" and stopped arguing my point three days ago. 




Aramoro said:


> I find it odd someone who professes to be as learned as yourself didn't bring up the fact the Russian infantry (which heavily inspires the Imperial Guard) used women on the front line and had female commanding officers. First World War say the epically named Womens Battalion of Death formed with many single sex regiments at this time. But by World War 2 800,000 women served in the Russian Army,many in front line positions, in mixed regiments. With women like Anna Yegorova leading all male units.


And you may notice said female officers were usually in charge of women. But that is still beside the point I was trying to make.

I have no complaints with co-ed regiments, and yes, I am SURE there are exceptions to the rule for commissarial assignment,

Hell I even have a bit of fiction I've been writing for a long time now about a Lady commissar who falls in love with a trooper who goes traitor, 

But the fact is, from what I know about history and what I know about the real life military is this, if the culture to which the paticular force ascribes sees men and women as simply bodies, who the commanding officer is is unimportant to them, men and women are treated the same, on the whole this is the sort of culture that needs ALL the soliders it can get (like WWII Russia) and doesn't care who they are. Hence the creation of co-ed regiments and things like that, examples in 40K verse include Cadia, Catachan and a couple of others. But the thing is, not every culture sees it the same way

But on the flip side, if you have a culture that sees DISTINCT diffrences between men and women, like WWI era Russia, they will keep the men and women seperate, as you yourself mentioned. 

40K examples being the Valhallans, (based off the Red Army funnily enough) or the Vostroyan Firstborn (who are all exclusively male since they are intended to be the firstborn sons of the ruling class). 

Assigning them a commander of the opposite sex would in fact be insulting, admittedly for many youg men, being the only man in the midst of an army of women is probably a fantasy come true, but I doubt the same would apply to a woman in the midst of a rampaging horde of horny men who havent seen a woman in a long while.

Yes she could shoot them for insubordination, but if a woman commissar shot your buddy for wolf whistling at her, which would you do? Follow her? Or try to shoot her when her back is turned?

(also, I will admit, i was not aware of Ms. Yegorova so thanks for the little tidbit)


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

TheKingElessar said:


> I think you (Nicholas Hadrian) forget the sheer, blinding incompetence of the Administratum.
> Just because (in your opinion) such and such a course of action is easier and less hassle means nothing to a megalithic bureau with more heads of department than people in the USA.


Actually, yeah it does, if they CAN make it easier, they will, even canon states that the Administratum is incredibly lazy. 

Besides, Who ever said I was talking about the Administratum? 

The Administratum decides what regiment goes where and why, Segmentum Command and the Munitorium decide who gets what assignment, while considerably smaller, the same logic holds true. They will take shortcuts anywhere they can find em.


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

Kitsunex said:


> i think somebody needs to invest in a sense of humor.. sheesh.


 If you mean me, my sense of humor decided to garrote itself when what should have been a short reasonable debate has turned into a long argument.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Nicholas Hadrian said:


> 40K examples being the Valhallans, (based off the Red Army funnily enough)


The Valhallans DO have female soldiers serving beside male soldiers, Ice Guard, one of the characters is a femal sapper part of a coed sapper team.


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

locustgate said:


> The Valhallans DO have female soldiers serving beside male soldiers, Ice Guard, one of the characters is a female sapper part of a coed sapper team.


 Yes but they also have all female regiments, an example being the Valhallan 296th, which was later combined with the Valhallan 301st into the Valhallan 597th on the orders of the Munitorium.

Their culture said divide em up, the paper pushers said put em together, but, considering the fact that on paper they were supplied as 2 seperate regiments, I highly doubt they even knew what gender they were. It really comes down to how the society looks at their people.

But the point is, I am not saying that I dont like the concept of Co-ed regiments, it opens alot of interesting oppertunities fluff-wise, appeals to my personal veiws on the subject and is more practical, especially since it is how our modern army works today.

I just have trouble with people assuming that co-educational regiments are the norm, aside from the fact it makes them less unique and interesting, it's a logical fallacy called a confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias means basically someone with a small sample of information assumes that that holds true in all suituations, example, someone sees a store clerk for the first time and they cheat someone out of money, the fallacy is assuming all store clerks are cheats, which is simply not true.

Simplest way to put the whole thing here, I'm not upset about your politics, I could care less if you're an altruist, integrationist, mysogynist, misandrist or any of the above, I'm pissed off by bad logic.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

There is no bad logic from me here - I see YOURS as bad logic. You can't ignore whatever hand the Administratum have, claiming the Departmento Munitorum have primacy over distribution of materiel, then proceed to accept them not even being aware of the gender of two Regiments they amalgamate.

If they don't know, they can't care - and if they do it in one recorded instance of canon, it logically follows they do it all the time.

Real life militaries have little or no bearing on 40k.


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

TheKingElessar said:


> There is no bad logic from me here - I see YOURS as bad logic. You can't ignore whatever hand the Administratum have, claiming the Departmento Munitorum have primacy over distribution of materiel, then proceed to accept them not even being aware of the gender of two Regiments they amalgamate.


The statement was intended as humor, but, then in an argument that is probably the last place for it, you are correct in that regard.



TheKingElessar said:


> If they don't know, they can't care - and if they do it in one recorded instance of canon, it logically follows they do it all the time.


As I said, logical fallacy, our mind assumes so, but it is not logic.



TheKingElessar said:


> Real life militaries have little or no bearing on 40k.


Wrong, they are based directly off them and share the majority of the same traits. 

But even further beyond that, if they have no bearing, why the hell are we having this argument? Whats the point if you're claiming we have nothing to base it on? Book never explicity states 40K humans watch televison, so can we assume what we want about that too?

but really, by now, I don't care, if you want to say "book said so, QED" then fine. you win, can I go now?


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## Kitsunex (Mar 8, 2009)

Nicholas Hadrian said:


> If you mean me, my sense of humor decided to garrote itself when what should have been a short reasonable debate has turned into a long argument.


huzzah, you do have reading comprehension. You took a comment made by a poster that was clearly tongue in cheek and turned it into this debacle.


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