# Ork Warboss and other Killy CC HQ's



## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Hey everyone,

Lately I've been having some different thoughts on using (Insert your choice of non eternal HQ here) my warboss.

The way I gear him out usually includes - Warbike, Power Klaw, Bosspole, Attack Squig, & Cybork Body.

Now with the rule that IC's must move towards combat first and attempt to get into base to base (if they don't they don't get to attack) I've found that my warboss just isn't surviving. Yes, he's T6 (T5 for instant death) and yes he's got a 5+ invulnerable but I find I'm usually running into hidden power fists/force weapons/insert instant death in most squads that I engage in combat. So much so, that I don't think I've rolled his attack dice in a couple of games as usually he gets molested by a faster power weapon or a deadnought, etc. 

I find myself using cheaper HQ's these days (Mek /w KFF or a Warphead) and stick them in the rear of the unit so that they don't get killed in CC (yes they lose their attacks but so what?) Using my HQ's for a more support role. In fact, I've found that my Nobz /w their 'hidden' power klaws outperform my warboss. Yes he's got 2 less PK attacks at 1 less strength but he's also got 30 wounds for you to chew through.

Has anyone else noticed this trend in Orks or their army of choice? Thoughts, comments?


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## englanda (Dec 2, 2008)

It is a problem with warbosses. How is he getting insta-killed though? If he's on a bike, you have the ability to attack basically whatever you want. Regular power fists on most infantry won't insta-kill him, and I honestly don't see many force weapons. Only thing that kills him is monstrous creatures and dreads, against both of which you can jump you boss out of the squad and then charge with the squad.

That said, there are better HQs than a decked out boss, UNLESS you're taking him to make nob bikers troops.


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## Lord_Murdock (Jul 16, 2008)

I can't honestly say that my warboss has ever died, although mine in is mega armour and he hangs out with a few meganobz and a battlewagon. All of my opponents tend to go after the rest of the meganob squad in CC first though, and leave the warboss for last. That being said, the only armies I ever battle aren't really CC oriented, so my warboss tends to tear through them pretty easily. Just gotta love CC with the Tau.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

englanda said:


> It is a problem with warbosses. How is he getting insta-killed though? If he's on a bike, you have the ability to attack basically whatever you want. Regular power fists on most infantry won't insta-kill him, and I honestly don't see many force weapons. Only thing that kills him is monstrous creatures and dreads, against both of which you can jump you boss out of the squad and then charge with the squad.
> 
> That said, there are better HQs than a decked out boss, UNLESS you're taking him to make nob bikers troops.


I've had him charged by dreadnoughts, counter-charged by berzerkers, IG psychers (force weapon), Death Company, or even just mass power weapons from things like banshee's or burna boyz.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Are you running him solo then, or as part of a squad? What kind of squad?

My experience of playing against warbosses is that they tend to be attached to nobz, meganobz or nobz bikers, having made that unit count as troops. You may be able to kill the warboss in that situation but it doesn't really help a lot anyway.

Ultimately it's a game in which models get killed a lot. Sometimes it's best to take two cheaper guys.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Someguy said:


> Are you running him solo then, or as part of a squad? What kind of squad?
> 
> My experience of playing against warbosses is that they tend to be attached to nobz, meganobz or nobz bikers, having made that unit count as troops. You may be able to kill the warboss in that situation but it doesn't really help a lot anyway.
> 
> Ultimately it's a game in which models get killed a lot. Sometimes it's best to take two cheaper guys.


This.

I generally take my warboss with a unit of nobz on bikes. I use them to hunt armour but I find that I'll usually get counter-charged by something thats halfway decent in CC. Even when I send them into combat with another unit I find power weapons and powerfists, etc.

I think the way of the nob is definatly the way to go.... Taking two or even 1 super cheap HQ in order to fit in more nobz /w power klaws.... Even taking my nob squadz on bikes without a warboss (maybe 2 nobz with PK's).


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## Hialmar (Feb 19, 2008)

Put the warboss kitted out as you do on a Warbike, Power Klaw, Bosspole, Attack Squig, & Cybork Body in with with a group of Nobz with a painboy and a variety of gear such as Waagh Banner, Bosspole, a couple of Power Klaws, some Big Choppas and he should be pretty survivable and manueverable while hitting your enemy like a ton of bricks. You should be able to get to the targets you want and put a hurting on them. Will they survive every battle? Perhaps not but they should be very dangerous and will be soemthing yoru opponeent is focusing on, which for Orks can only help your Mobs as they stomp across the field as a casual aftetthought.

I will run this unit on occasion and if I run the Nobs unit at a full unit of 10 or rather 9 + 1 Painboy, then I usually make them scoring as well, pound on units until near end game then move in to take or contest an objective if playing that type of scenario.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Hialmar said:


> Put the warboss kitted out as you do on a Warbike, Power Klaw, Bosspole, Attack Squig, & Cybork Body in with with a group of Nobz with a painboy and a variety of gear such as Waagh Banner, Bosspole, a couple of Power Klaws, some Big Choppas and he should be pretty survivable and manueverable while hitting your enemy like a ton of bricks. You should be able to get to the targets you want and put a hurting on them. Will they survive every battle? Perhaps not but they should be very dangerous and will be soemthing yoru opponeent is focusing on, which for Orks can only help your Mobs as they stomp across the field as a casual aftetthought.
> 
> I will run this unit on occasion and if I run the Nobs unit at a full unit of 10 or rather 9 + 1 Painboy, then I usually make them scoring as well, pound on units until near end game then move in to take or contest an objective if playing that type of scenario.



I do run him with nobz on bikes quite frequently, however numbers and wound abuse does not change the fast that he is an IC and can be picked out in CC by anything in base with him. I can have 10 nobz /w a warboss and all it takes is a dreadnought in base with him to paste him. 

I think my goal over the next few games is going to be to try to use them with this in mind... maybe save my big mob boyz for things like dreadnoughts, etc.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Crimzzen said:


> I do run him with nobz on bikes quite frequently, however numbers and wound abuse does not change the fast that he is an IC and can be picked out in CC by anything in base with him. I can have 10 nobz /w a warboss and all it takes is a dreadnought in base with him to paste him.
> 
> I think my goal over the next few games is going to be to try to use them with this in mind... maybe save my big mob boyz for things like dreadnoughts, etc.


Are you losing games because of him dying? I'd suggest just roll around in all the models him and his uberstupid squad kill. Make the opponent watch you desecrate those filthy high-costed space marines of the non-green empire of bikes.

Maybe just don't throw him into combats where he won't get dreadclawed or force weaponed(So few things in the galaxy carry them anymore.). He's a wicked mean hq with a powerklaw. Perhaps just stuff him in a large boyz squad and hope he'll remain alive? Personally I see no problem with him doing absolutely NOTHING the entire game as long as he makes the bikerz scoring.(As they kill everything)


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## fowlplaychiken (Apr 6, 2008)

The trick my army list uses is A: Keep the boss with other nob bikers, and B: keep the nob bikers alive (or not) by giving too many high priority targets to the enemy. I have a decent sized mob of loota's and tankbusta's, both of which are high priority targets. I also have 6 killa kans, which are also high priority since they are pretty solid in CC and good at shooting when they get within 18 inches. The nob bike squad is another high priority target. By giving the enemy too many important things to shoot, inevetably some stuff (like the 90 ork boys, at the very least) gets through. Usually the enemy concentrates fire on my killa kans and Nobs. the nobs absorb huge amounts of fire, and the killa kans eventually die, but my tankbusta's and 90 boyz get into the thick of it. Also, at least a couple nob usually survive.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

fowlplaychiken said:


> The trick my army list uses is A: Keep the boss with other nob bikers, and B: keep the nob bikers alive (or not) by giving too many high priority targets to the enemy. I have a decent sized mob of loota's and tankbusta's, both of which are high priority targets. I also have 6 killa kans, which are also high priority since they are pretty solid in CC and good at shooting when they get within 18 inches. The nob bike squad is another high priority target. By giving the enemy too many important things to shoot, inevetably some stuff (like the 90 ork boys, at the very least) gets through. Usually the enemy concentrates fire on my killa kans and Nobs. the nobs absorb huge amounts of fire, and the killa kans eventually die, but my tankbusta's and 90 boyz get into the thick of it. Also, at least a couple nob usually survive.


Yeah, my lootas draw lots of fire as well, however, Its not the firepower I'm worried about, most of the time my nobz have their 3+ cover save + FNP.



LordWaffles said:


> Are you losing games because of him dying? I'd suggest just roll around in all the models him and his uberstupid squad kill. Make the opponent watch you desecrate those filthy high-costed space marines of the non-green empire of bikes.
> 
> Maybe just don't throw him into combats where he won't get dreadclawed or force weaponed(So few things in the galaxy carry them anymore.). He's a wicked mean hq with a powerklaw. Perhaps just stuff him in a large boyz squad and hope he'll remain alive? Personally I see no problem with him doing absolutely NOTHING the entire game as long as he makes the bikerz scoring.(As they kill everything)


No, I'm not losing games because of him.... yet. I do not play competitively most of the time... however IF i do decide to play in a tourney again in the future, I'm thinking about whether or not his point cost is worth it. Such a killy unit such as this shouldn't hafta pick and choose its targets, especially packing around PK's... and if he gets insta-pasted, the enemy is now up 3 wounds. Again, though, I'll try him a bit differently. Also, nobz as troops are cool, but I have more than enough boyz running around to hold objectives


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## Diablo1399 (Jan 13, 2009)

Just keep the warboss away from dreadnoughts, and make sure he has a tough bodyguard. He'll probably live.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Diablo1399 said:


> Just keep the warboss away from dreadnoughts, and make sure he has a tough bodyguard. He'll probably live.


Tough bodyguard has nothing to do with it, he's and IC and therefor can be singled out. I feel like I'm whinning about him, I'm not trying to come across that way at all. He is an extremely powerful HQ and I think players are starting to realize that - Hence I'm noticing a shift in my HQ choices towards the more supportive/passive choices.

Also, most savvy players will keep their dreadnought close by for the counter charge, especially when they see nob bikers.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Crimzzen said:


> No, I'm not losing games because of him.... yet. I do not play competitively most of the time... however IF i do decide to play in a tourney again in the future, I'm thinking about whether or not his point cost is worth it. Such a killy unit such as this shouldn't hafta pick and choose its targets, especially packing around PK's... and if he gets insta-pasted, the enemy is now up 3 wounds. Again, though, I'll try him a bit differently. Also, nobz as troops are cool, but I have more than enough boyz running around to hold objectives


I can safely say you should have nothing to fear from him getting pasted. Their's so few things in the galaxy that have str 10 ignore armor/invul saves in close combat.
The dreadnoughts might worry you, but you can just leap immediately around them and open fire with your ridiculous guns and tip the bastards over. I'm of the opinion that just having the noob bikers score makes the warboss pay for himself, after that point, everything is gravy. Why take large mobs of boyz when you could have lootas and more nobz?


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## Diablo1399 (Jan 13, 2009)

Crimzzen said:


> Tough bodyguard has nothing to do with it, he's and IC and therefor can be singled out. I feel like I'm whinning about him, I'm not trying to come across that way at all. He is an extremely powerful HQ and I think players are starting to realize that - Hence I'm noticing a shift in my HQ choices towards the more supportive/passive choices.
> 
> Also, most savvy players will keep their dreadnought close by for the counter charge, especially when they see nob bikers.


I meant, "give the Warboss a tough bodyguard so he can't be singled out in the shooting phase"

A warboss in a trukk with 11 boyz is likely to get shot apart.


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

I have used a warboss on a bike since the old speed freeks rules. I had exactly the same problem throughout that time.

I just kept him as cheap as possible bike, powerclaw and just keep him away from any unit which can handle itself in close combat.

Isolated vehicles, squads with no PF and low strength most armies have them. Even marines have scouts and devastators.

Obviously he needs looking after in the shooting phase as well but should be fairly easy to hide. And hey if your opponent goes looking for him he is ignoring other harder stuff.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Well, I ran him again last night on a bike with a squad of nob bikers. They were performing well until they were charged by mephisto (Blood Angels). Unfortunately I failed my 5+ invul. and he ate it from the force weapon. 

I think cabbage has it right, I might consider toning him down a bit, no attack squig, no bosspole, etc.


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## nightmarine (Mar 30, 2007)

fowlplaychiken said:


> The trick my army list uses is A: Keep the boss with other nob bikers, and B: keep the nob bikers alive (or not) by giving too many high priority targets to the enemy. I have a decent sized mob of loota's and tankbusta's, both of which are high priority targets. I also have 6 killa kans, which are also high priority since they are pretty solid in CC and good at shooting when they get within 18 inches. The nob bike squad is another high priority target. By giving the enemy too many important things to shoot, inevetably some stuff (like the 90 ork boys, at the very least) gets through. Usually the enemy concentrates fire on my killa kans and Nobs. the nobs absorb huge amounts of fire, and the killa kans eventually die, but my tankbusta's and 90 boyz get into the thick of it. Also, at least a couple nob usually survive.


 
yeah overloading an enemy with important targets is a great idea. Think about just using him a bait, dont forget that if he was killed, it probably took some doing for that to happen. When i play with my SMs i am perectly ok with a squad of terminators being wiped out so long as it took half my opponent's army to do it.

from personal experiance, a warboss (which in his case was ghaskull thrakka (spelling?)) with 5 megga armored nobs on a truck combined with a seperate squad of bikers and a whole heck of a lot of boyz did me in at the 'Ard Boyz (a victorious slaughter to be honest)

another idea is (if he is being targeted by your opponent a lot) make him a cheep warboss with a big choppa and some mega armor or something, he doesnt have to be the star of your army, you have lots of boyz to do that. Iif fire is drawn to him like a magnet, then i wouldnt sink too many points into him.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Yeah, I was considering giving him a chopper, but thinking about it, most things that will WANT to target him in CC will most likely be faster still (He is an Ork after all) and if I do get attacks with him I think I'd want them to be PK attacks as he is one of the only that are str 10.

I think I may cheapen him up though or just run him in a squad of boyz and just take an additional Nob pk in my nob bikers.


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## ihockert (Nov 27, 2008)

I don't really see the issue here. Very few units are going to be able to do this to your warboss and the vast majority of them are more expensive. Mephiston costs 70 more points than your warboss, he should be able to kill him in single combat and you should be able to avoid and/or neutralize dreadnoughts so they aren't a problem for your warboss.

Of course if you are getting better results from the other HQs, there is nothing wrong with going that route.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

You have played that ZOMGZOR überkilly retardnob biker unit quite alot, right Crimzzen?

People adapt and learn to counter similar things after a while, and learn to include some counter-units for this in their armies. Its natural! If I play against someone at my club that has found out some "new" über-unit-army plan I tend to evaluate(disregarding win/loss) afterwards. What I could have done diffrently when I made my army and during the battle to have a decent chance of stopping something like that again. Some one trick ponys fail and are left in the dark corners for good. Others like your bikers are nowdays so common that chances of seeing them in an Ork army is as big as chances of seeing Basilisks in IG armies:scare:

My point is that your regular opponents know your bikers inside out. They are nothing new, all will have countermeasures in their armies since a long time back. They know how to stop them and will always have the means to do it in their armies too, its very hard to shine during such circumstances

Id say retire them a long time, like a year+, and try them after that once again and see what happens. Varriation is the key, predictability is teh skuk:scare:


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