# Autocannon havocs?



## OpTi (Aug 29, 2009)

Now whenever i see havocs i tend to cringe but me being me i like to explore different possibilties.

So has anyone got some reasonable experience with running say an 8 man havoc squad with 4 AC's? i say reasonable experience as a one off game or 2 where they decimated isn't really strong evidence they are good.

I did some quick checks with the calculator comparing them with 3 oblits using LC's at range. Obv oblits using MM or TLmeltas would be better at close range but the idea is to try not letting stuff get close if possible and most fast vehicles are AV12 or lower and thats the role i envision AC havocs being decent in.

Anyway enough of my ramblings, opinions?


----------



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Havocs are good - it's a fairly unique unit with AC's, and there aren't very many units which can put out 8 BS4 S7 Shots a turn.

Problem with Havocs is that Chosen are better with special weapons (otherwise Havocs are better than Obliterators), while as said, Oblits with Plasma, Lascannon, and Multi-melta are better at mixed targets. But AC Havocs is unique, and definitely worth a mooj over - at least for non-top tier tournaments.


----------



## OpTi (Aug 29, 2009)

well the problem i face everytime i bring out my chaos is everyone i play with knows how to deal with oblits very well after watching me destroy a few armies a few times they've caught on and so i need an ace in the hole i can pull out they don't expect.

While i love playing in competitive tounaments most of my games are pickup games at the local GW and i always take an all comers list as i hate tailoring.

I may have to take my chaos this week and proxy some AC havocs to see them perform, i think 8 of them is enough? gives 4 wounds to place on boggers at a round 200 points, 2 squads for 16 shots a turn? seems reasonable to me.


----------



## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

I thought about this as well and have been considering it but i just can't commit when i think about my defilers and pred. tanks as well.It sounds like to me its a sound plan that can be utilized well with anti-armour or anti- infantry. Most think of using template weapons aginst hoarde armies i normally take whatever can get me the most shots i can fire. IMO a SM tact sqaud without a flamer can punch out more shots than one with flamers. so think really its cool idea i might have to do it sometime.


----------



## Dakingofchaos (Sep 29, 2009)

I must admit i would have to agree with vaz, chosen ones with sw are far better, the ability to outflank a tank squadron/infantry squad with the appropriate weapons far outweighs the superior range of the havocs, IMO even havocs arent all that bad in close combat, with 2 attacks a piece you'd be pumping out 16 strength 4 attacks if you were charged, so i dont really think theres a lot of point in keeping the enemy as far away from you as possible. Just my views though


----------



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I use 7 marines with 3 AC's (All the time..kinda my thing), and I find they are generally a strong counter to certain targets, but lack the suicide power of chosen (Really I use them often, but some targets are really a bad choice for a unit that needs to be 12" away). For instance if I waste my chosen shooting a falcon or a raider, I can typically be damn sure the rest of his army will destroy my 200+pt unit, but I can safely pelt such fragile vehicles from half way across the table with a small unit of AC havoks.

Son in other words. (Based on optimal engagement.)
Hovoks>AV12-3+monsters
oblits>Av13+-2+save(Anything)
Chosen>AV13(suicide)-Marines-Terminators-Massed GeQ-MC's


----------



## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

I tend to run my havocs w Missile Launchers instead of Autocannons. I ponder them ACs all the time but the whole S8 AP3 (aka instafist MEQ stuff) argument wins me over every time. I think that the whole AC/ML thing is one of those personal preferences thats hard to give solid advice about. If the rest of your list lacks high S shooting then the ML are probably better. If you got some (read Obz) then ACs should do fine.


Regarding the squad size Id say that 7 models are well enough, perhaps even 6, it depends on how much points you want to spend on them. Most likely they wont be top prio targets so there aint so much need to have loads of fodder in the unit. 
One thing though that is mandatory is the IoCG. Its a _very_ worth while investment for those few points, cheaper then the Asp and gives better morale. The chance of failing a LD9 with re-roll is extremely low, and if they would happen to run youve just wasted shotloads of points since they cant shoot if/when they rally...


----------



## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

I have used that set up but i would say its only tactically superior against Eldar/Dark Eldar. It works really well against fast flat-out moving vehicles that you need to pop at range before they are in melta range. It dominates dark eldar. Otherwise oblits and/or chosen would be your best bet to win


----------

