# Ogre Kingdoms



## Justindkates (Apr 30, 2010)

So far unless I take a 3 scrap launcher cheese list I'm not 100% sure the Ogre Kingdoms book could win a single game right now. 

Anyone have any suggestions? I'm running 3 units of 9 bulls 3x3, 2 units or 2 lead belchers 1 butcher, 1 tyrant, 20 gnoblars and 1 scrap launcher.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

I don't see what your problem is, thats pretty much what I run in low point games, and I'm managing to win games with them. Heck, I just started using the 3x3, 9 bull block and it's proving quite effective given the added rank bonus.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Is 3x3 more effective than 4x2, so you can get 6-7 extra attacks?


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

I'm not sure yet as I've only tried it for few games. Its certainly more manouverable about the battle field, and provides a slightly smaller target to hit which has both its advatages, and disadvantages... but its defiantely better then the 3x2 block.


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## Arli (Mar 4, 2010)

With the new horde rules on monstrous infantry, all of those ogres should get full attacks. 27 attacks from a 3x3 unit.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Monsterous Infantry only counts as a horde if its 6 wide, rather then the normal 10. 

It only needs a standing 3 wide, rather then 5 to count as a rank. 

In a 3x3 block, its too small to count as a horde, so the 3rd rank doesn't get any attacks. Only if it was 3x6 would it count as a horde, and the 3rd rank get attacks. However, being monsterous infantry, the second rank is allowed its full attacks. Soo.. it would get 18 attacks, not 27.

That is unless they've faq'd something I've missed.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Arli said:


> With the new horde rules on monstrous infantry, all of those ogres should get full attacks. 27 attacks from a 3x3 unit.


No, you need to be 6 wide as said. Which means to benefit from it, you need a unit 18 models in size, which is just asking for tarpitting + avoidance, especially as Ogres are fairly shit in combat compared to many others (WS3, S4, T4, and at best a 5+/6++ Save). And doing that with Ironguts, you're asking for a Deathstar that's not particularly Deathy (as they lack the benefits for a ward save).

With a 4x2, you get a 160mm wide unit. Running Chaos Warriors (25mm) in units of 24+ (often 7-8x3), I'm looking at 175-200mm, while 40 strong units of 20mm are often 7x6 formations - which is 140mm, so you're fairly well guaranteed to get 24-28 attacks in that way (depending on use of the Clubs).


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I have run a unit of 18 bulls (6*3) in a lot of my games in 8th (not a huge number though) and its worked well- any army I've faced other then HE I've trounced... I just cant shift HE though.

Scraplaunchers are a good unit and give you a way to counter hoard blocks other then the incredibly magic vulnerable blocks of bulls but they do put huge limits on the shape of your army.
Personally I think that if you are facing a decent army and are playing 2k or more points then you need either hoard bulls or scraplauncher spam to have a hope... I tried running multiple units of 6-12 ironguts/bulls and it just didn't work. Too many units pump out more damage then you are able to return, and you dont have the number of wounds or the ranks to get into a battle of attrition (you win by a few wounds then the enemy is steadfast and nothing much happens, you lose by a couple your down to crap Ld and are likely to run)... hoards are a bit all or nothing but will smash through almost anything they meet, usually in a single turn.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

18 is a bit much for my taste. I usually run 9-14 bulls, or 5-9 ironguts. Otherwise you'll concentrate too much of your power into one space on the board, and maximize the damage you'll take from the spell Purple Sun.

Whether you want 3 wide or 4 wide really depends on the opponent you're facing, and if a flank charge is possible. If a flank charge is possible, then you want 3 wide, to make sure you have at least 2 ranks at the end of combat. In most other situations you'll want 4 wide, to maximize the number of attacks you'll get in close combat, and the number of impact hits/stomp attacks.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Using 18 means you can pack the unit 6 wide and 3 deep and get every attack from every model on most enemy units.... thats something in the order of 50 attacks after taking some damage (and possibly having characters in the unit)... which is enough to get you through most enemy units.

I just couldn't take on a lot of enemy units with the amount of hatred/ASF rerolls to hit and the low amount of armour... I was struggling even when going into the flank with a unit of 9-12. Unless I could get 2 units into flank/rear at the same time (to stop reform) I was just staying around for a turn or 2 then getting smashed.


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## Justindkates (Apr 30, 2010)

Its magic that pretty consistently wrecks my face. Dwellers Below, Purple Sun, etc.


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## Flindo (Oct 30, 2010)

I heard a rumor that they are gunna be updated later this year, I am sure GW will make them alot better concidering how crap they are now.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Ogre's aren't crap.. its a commonly held misconception by idiots who don't know how to play them right. They only suffer against magic, and thats because magics gone stupidly overpowered with this edition. 

That said, its between them and Tomb King for the next army update.


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## Justindkates (Apr 30, 2010)

GrizBe said:


> Ogre's aren't crap.. its a commonly held misconception by idiots who don't know how to play them right. They only suffer against magic, and thats because magics gone stupidly overpowered with this edition.
> 
> That said, its between them and Tomb King for the next army update.


Like I said its the magic phase that rips me a new ass hole pretty much every game.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Magic is a pain in the ass... but I find its the way gut magic works that annoys me more then opponent's magic phases. That you can buff all your army turn 1 and then have the opponent dispel each and every one of them just after you've made combat. It annoys me you have to play silly games with them to try to keep them up through that turn.

Then again... I just dont play people who take purple sun/pit of shades, I've seen what both can do to my army, I'm not bothering to invest any time/energy into a game that will be zero fun for me.

I was told my a friend of mine still at GW that OK and TK would be coming out next... but then he did tell me that about a year ago and was suggesting that they would be coming out last year... so fail on that at least.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Gut magic is actually pretty good, but you have to cast it on the same turn you charge, to maximize the damage you do that turn. If you can't charge, you're better off casting the damaging and panicking spells.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Yeah, braingobbler is already my fav gutmagic spell (although less useful with the new BSBs).

My tendancy is to cast a buff early and then recast it at the same unit as I charge... if they let it through they can't dispel it again that turn and if they dispel it they have less dice to get rid of the RIP spell still in effect from previous turns.... its fine and can mean other players leave those spells in place hoping I'll forget they can dispel them easily as I charge... the downside is that quite often I forget to recast :cray:
... you have no hope of keeping gutmagic spells in vital combats through the opponen't turn (unless they are forgetful).


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