# Black Templar Rumors



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

So we've all heard that GW has confirmed Templars _are_ indeed getting their own codex in the future. And while there are rumors that they'll be coming out in December, those are really not all that likely. But here are some new rumors that might be:



> *via a good anonymous source on Faeit 212*
> In so far as Black Templar: They are getting a full book not a supplement. The direction of the book is on "crusades," and differentiating the Black Templar when they persecute Xenos as opposed to when they put the Witch to the sword.
> 
> They are seeing a lot of changes from their previous incarnation, and are no longer a shooting army (despite the intention of the previous book, they were received as a shooting army).
> ...


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

That bit from feit is pretty freak'n sweet.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

So.....update an army by taking away its defining qualities?


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

d3m01iti0n said:


> So.....update an army by taking away its defining qualities?


no, update an army by changing its defining qualities


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> So.....update an army by taking away its defining qualities?


Or rather changing how those qualities work on the table. But yeah, change happens. Looks like they should get back to punching things at least.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> So.....update an army by taking away its defining qualities?


Yes, and giving them new features to differentiate them from other Marines(like the Vanilla 'dex) to do the Knights in Space feel. Sounds like a better plan from just updating the book for 6E.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Some of us never stopped punching lol. Wtf is battle trance?


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Some of us never stopped punching lol. Wtf is battle trance?


Don't know, but, it could be cool.


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## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

I imagine its a bit like the black rage. But with an off switch.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Looks like its an Eldar thing, for running and shooting. I much rather take Zeal.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Sounds like they're becoming more of a unique entity with these changes rather then being 'just another flavour of marines' which is how most people saw them previously.


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## revilo44 (Sep 17, 2010)

oow interesting z. i want see to see what kind new units and flyer they have.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Well, beyond the Stormtalon and Stormraven, probably not much.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

That is what people thought, but played properly they have a very different feel than vanilla. I played vanilla before I stripped my models and went BT. I almost always run a Black Tide (though Ive been toying with Raider spam lately). BT already feels like Knights in Space. Go watch Kingdom of Heaven. The crusades were a fuckton of dudes just running at each other. Thats what Zeal feels like. Ive had opponents not even bother shooting the Tide because they know it will get there faster. Then it hits like a freight train, the EC calls out his challenge and turns some jackoff into red mist. Thats why myself and my fellow crusaders play BT, and Im sure none of us want to lose that feel.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> That is what people thought, but played properly they have a very different feel than vanilla. I played vanilla before I stripped my models and went BT. I almost always run a Black Tide (though Ive been toying with Raider spam lately). BT already feels like Knights in Space. Go watch Kingdom of Heaven. The crusades were a fuckton of dudes just running at each other. Thats what Zeal feels like. Ive had opponents not even bother shooting the Tide because they know it will get there faster. Then it hits like a freight train, the EC calls out his challenge and turns some jackoff into red mist. Thats why myself and my fellow crusaders play BT, and Im sure none of us want to lose that feel.


Don't forget that these are rumors and may not represent the final version of the codex. Furthermore, I'd withhold judgement on the new BT and if they have the right feel or not until you can get them on the table.

Just because the rules may change it doesn't mean that BT won't be BT anymore.

Also the recommendations I've seen for modern BT plays them very shooty and no Black Tides or Bolt Pistol/Chainswords which is the wrong feel for them I think. So any change that gets us away from that meta is good at this point.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

warsmith7752 said:


> I imagine its a bit like the black rage. But with an off switch.


basically a grey whinge



Zion said:


> Just because the rules may change it doesn't mean that BT won't be BT anymore.


remember all the necron rule set rumours, there is still plenty of time if it isn't a rumour and that is exactly what it is so far, a rumour.
getting frustrated about rumours is really not worth the hassle, a bit like sheep really:wink:


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

They are decent shooters. Tank Hunting Termis on a Quad Gun (or a TDA Command Squad with TDA Marshal for that matter, BS5 screwing fliers), double heavy weapons, and decent loadouts for standard squads. But yeah, not fun. I run the CMLx2 Termis on the Quad but still run Black Tide and armor.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

I think the "battle trance" was suppossed to be "battle focus," what Eldar have. So Templars will get something similar. Maybe old Fleet rules where they can run and still assault but not shoot. And if they are moving away from letting them have very much shooting, that makes sense. As does them being cheaper. Why would you pay the same for a Marine who can't shoot? I'm going to keep my eyes on their rumors for a while. I've always like Crusade Fleet Marines.


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

I just hope we stay on the rumor mill


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## unixknight (Jul 26, 2010)

I would have been satisfied with a supplement (in concept, although $100 for a pair of rule books to update my army would not have gone into the "cool" column) but if it's true that we are getting a full fledged Codex then I'm even happier. Anything would be better than getting rolled.


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## Saint7515 (Apr 30, 2008)

Bindi Baji said:


> basically a grey whinge


I signed in for the first time in months just to quote this.

So.

Happy.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

I love Templars and they were my first army. These changes sound good to me and I'm very glad they aren't getting only a supplement set of rules. It was hard to believe something as iconic to 40k as the black Templars would be done away with.


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

> Templar point costs are down even from those of dark angels, and are designed to be balanced by their point cost, but also deliver the feeling that this is a "crusade army" that has never really felt the yoke of the codex astartes, and thus has huge companies of marines.


So similar to CSM? 13 pts per model (bolter,pistol,grenades),20 max size squads and no sergeant? 65pts per 5 men is a freaking sweet idea and I'd gladly pay 1/2pts for CCWs

I wonder what they'll make RZ or Kill 'em all special rules to do in the update

I want orbital bombardment so bad! on techmarines, chappies, marshalls/castellans! BRING IT ON GW!!

Personally the way I see things is that SM will be on sept, orks on nov and templars on january and the schedule will be unaffected by the inquisitor skirmish game (hope its not limited edition) the same way supplements havent interrupted the schedule


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Bindi Baji said:


> basically a grey whinge


Should fit in quite well given the whiny responses we have so far to a document that's basic existence, much less its contents, is still the subject of rumour.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

New BTs are nice, losing the neophytes in their squads (if true) will be surely missed, that was one of the major units that really made me want to play BTs (but I choose the CSM instead)


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## Armyghy (May 13, 2011)

Well carp.. there goes my black tides... that is of course unless the BT get to take upwards of 20 Marines per squad. As long as they get some new models WITH the BT upgrade pack bundled in, I'll be happy.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Seems a pity that they might lose their unique squad make up but it's great that they are in the works, anybody want to take bets on whether it'll be them or sister's first?


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> Seems a pity that they might lose their unique squad make up but it's great that they are in the works, anybody want to take bets on whether it'll be them or sister's first?


Sisters are doing it for themselves?


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## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

Jacobite said:


> Seems a pity that they might lose their unique squad make up but it's great that they are in the works, anybody want to take bets on whether it'll be them or sister's first?


Well I hope they don't lose it, I think it will most probably get tweaked to make it better or more reasonable. I think that's what will likely happen since I can't see them totally ditching Black Tide.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

What is Black Tide?


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> What is Black Tide?


10 Neos, 10 Initiates, Emperors Champion, a Chaplain, and 3 Servitors. A 25 man squad that moves 9 inches for Unmatched Zeal and rolls buckets of dice when it hits, then rerolls misses. Ive been known to throw a servo harness Techmarine in as well. Its disgusting when used properly.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Some play-test rumors From Faeit212. Remember these may not be indicative of the final product and may have in fact have changed already:



> *via an anonymous source on Faeit 212*
> _Neophytes get their own unit entry, 5-10 unit size, they're 0-X max, where X = squads with the crusader keyword (crusader squad, sword brethren, assault squads, bike squads). It seems like the terminators either don't take squires anymore or they fall under sword brethren._
> _They get attached to squads with the crusade keyword at the start of the game when the main squad is deployed or they can be deployed independently._
> _They're troops, but if they are attached to a unit they take on whatever squad type the parent squad is. Otherwise though they take up no force org._
> ...


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

MOTHER OF GOD.

Im very happy with that ruleset. It can stay like that for all I care.

Its my day off and Ive been painting my BT backlog and repainting my older models since 8am. Nothin like awesome rumors to motivate you!!!


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

Ooh my Emperor

that is amazing

Please let it stay like that!

Those 1-3 elite champions sound a lot like chaplains, at least in funcionality, I will model them as such if they're not chaplains


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

I love how this stuff hits when B&C is down ><


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

Ha yeah that was some perfect timing, I wonder if Marshall Laeroth has anything to say regarding these rumors


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

redmapa said:


> Ha yeah that was some perfect timing, I wonder if Marshall Laeroth has anything to say regarding these rumors


If anyone knows how to get ahold of him we could invite him here to discuss the rumors.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> 10 Neos, 10 Initiates, Emperors Champion, a Chaplain, and 3 Servitors. A 25 man squad that moves 9 inches for Unmatched Zeal and rolls buckets of dice when it hits, then rerolls misses. Ive been known to throw a servo harness Techmarine in as well. Its disgusting when used properly.


 That Sounds pretty freak'n sweet.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Now it looks like Initiates will be 20 man squads and you can attach up to ten Neos. So thats a THIRTY man squad before ICs.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Looks pretty impressive to me.


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

more from faeit:



> Neophytes:
> Scout Stat line.
> They do not take up a force organization slot, but count as troops for all intents and purposes (Scoring etc).
> 
> ...


its the same as the last bit but more in depth

I hope scouts can take sniper rifles and heavy weapons, I'd love to have 20 snipers supporting my 40 crusaders


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

I doubt it. Looks like theyll have the same loadout at 4th edition, only they can take Grenade Launchers on bikes. 

HEAVY CHAINSWORD!!! 

I NEED Terminator info. PRAY we keep dual heavy weapons.


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm absolutely thrilled. This is the close combat army I've been waiting for. I'm curious to see what mechanism GW has devised to get the BTs into close combat without dying. Is it the fact that you can take 20 of them at a discount? That, plus the charge range buff, might actually be enough.

Well, if this codex turns out as beautifully as these rumors are making it sound, I'll be fielding these guys as [badass] allies for my IG.

Teutonic Knights in SPAAACE with chainswords. Metal as hell. Psyched.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

30 man squads with the Neos, rolling 3D6 with the two highest for assault, and I believe assaulting after running. That and resolving overwatch after combat should do the job.

Im wondering about attaching Neos to a Assault squad. Im sure the jump pack Initiates will be slowed down by them; would need to run a Jump Pack/Bike Neo squad. Now THAT is pretty cool.


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## Aegir Einarsson (Feb 27, 2011)

Hi guys Nice to see you all. I thought that we will have no contact due to collapse of bolter, but some of you are here Nice I'm very pleased. Do you make some progress with you're ETL? I don't know where here is some BT topic, so I'll write here. Once again I'm very happy to see you all here.


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

I havent made progress with my ETL to be honest but I will definitely finish it

edit: I just realized I got a bunch of single unpainted models, if I finish my vow before august I'll vow like 7 marshalls with PA/TDA since I cant make a full squad of anything with them


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## Aegir Einarsson (Feb 27, 2011)

Same as me. I've finished second LS typhoon, and 3 IC -> EC, and two chaplains. Still 2x10ini and LRC to make, but my week long holiday is coming so I'll finish it till the end of the next week

back to rumours. It's insane. totally!!!!! I love the concept. Love it. Holy Emperor if it is true I'll love 30 man squad with BP and Chainsword, granades, and assault weapons with rage USR, when I'll take some casulty. And 3d6 charge, and all other sweetnes. Also Vow, different for units are nice, and some more seriosu VoW army wide... And codex on december... Oh my god. How many things can change in one week... Keep that rumours going!!!!


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

I cant be trusted with ETL because some stuff I will bang out in a day, other things will sit for a month. But I already know that besides my third LRC Im not going to be buying any more Templar models. If there really is a new book coming out I dont want to load up on units that may end up redundant. Im definitely scoring my third LRC for Apoc (and theyll always be badass) and maybe a second Pred and Vindi, and then I suppose itll be Ini/Neo spam in Dec.

If I can sell my Ork army Ill definitely get a Thunderhawk.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> I cant be trusted with ETL because some stuff I will bang out in a day, other things will sit for a month. But I already know that besides my third LRC Im not going to be buying any more Templar models. If there really is a new book coming out I dont want to load up on units that may end up redundant. Im definitely scoring my third LRC for Apoc (and theyll always be badass) and maybe a second Pred and Vindi, and then I suppose itll be Ini/Neo spam in Dec.
> 
> If I can sell my Ork army Ill definitely get a Thunderhawk.


Would that be a Thunderhawk to carry a couple of Landraiders into battle?


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Would that be a Thunderhawk to carry a couple of Landraiders into battle?


Nope pure gunship. Ill need a superheavy killer and Id like to keep the three LRCs together for the Hailstorm formation. Ill have two Vindis and two Preds for armor, and I nearly own the entire Sons of Grimaldus formation already.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Nope pure gunship. Ill need a superheavy killer and Id like to keep the three LRCs together for the Hailstorm formation. Ill have two Vindis and two Preds for armor, and I nearly own the entire Sons of Grimaldus formation already.


What's a Sons of Grimaldus formation?


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Jace of Ultramar said:


> What's a Sons of Grimaldus formation?


A Black Templars formation for Apoc games based in the Armageddon Warzone.


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## Aegir Einarsson (Feb 27, 2011)

D3m01ition -> OMG so you have lot's of models Sons of Grimaldus is a huge formation, as i can remember. But I'll probably do the same thing. I'll buy some more Ini (I have just 3x10 sqads), and maby some boxes of scouts. The number of Ini it's never to high. Especially if we can take 10-20 in one squad... and If they cost 11ppm we can have +- 80 models for 1000pts so definately I need more infantry models


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

Depending on how this turns out, I may consider a Templars army as an Allied detachment to my Crimson Fists, which works well on the fluff side.


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

I probably have 50 Initiates, mostly CC but a few shooty squads. Only 10 Neos but Im not buying any more because I suspect we'll get an actual Neo box in the future. Helbrecht and Grimaldus. 5 shooty Termis, 5 Hammernators, and 5 Termis I havent put together. A full Command Squad. A Servo Harness Techmarine and a custom single-Servo Techmarine made from a HH Master of Signal. PA Marshall and TDA Marshall. Skull helm Chappy with a BT Power Fist. TDA Chappy. EC made from a HH Legion Champ. A full squad of Assault Marines and a few standard Marines still on sprue from the Battleforce. Two LRCs (soon to be three). One Pred Annihilator, one Vindi. A Stormtalon and a Stormraven. Aegis. Two Typhoons. One Razorback. One LC/ML Ven Dread. One AC/CML Contemptor Dread. Maybe some more I cant remember.

So Ive got to shut it down and see if we get a book. Ive also got a 1500 Ork army all painted Ill probably never add to (its my in-house training army for friends lol). Tried starting a Nid army and Iron Warrior army; Ill probably get back to work on those guys instead. Ill always use BT as my main competetive army however.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Bretonnians in Space, love the concept.


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## Woodzee316 (Sep 11, 2010)

Jace of Ultramar, the Sons Of Grimaldus formation contains the following: 

grimaldus and retinue
5 man command squad
10 sword bretheren
5 cc termies
5 regular termies
50 initiates
25 neo

It is to represent the forces that went to hive helsreach (the novel Helsreach is the best way to describe it, if you haven't read it well worth the read)

hope that answers your question


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## Ddraig Cymry (Dec 30, 2012)

The Black Templar's abilities to run towards things that are shooting them and using hordes of Space Marines and scouts to chop things up in close combat is what really interested me in them. It's going to be interesting to see what they do.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

From Faeit212:



> *via Larry Vela on BoLS:*
> _A large kit design was reported as follows:_
> _- a fully enclosed "dreadknight"_
> _- wielding a large crusader shield and mace_
> ...


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## Ddraig Cymry (Dec 30, 2012)

Zion said:


> From Faeit212:
> 
> Quote:
> via Larry Vela on BoLS:
> ...


Okay, that actually sounds pretty awesome!


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

Im cool with a MC. Its fliers I dont like.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Im cool with a MC. Its fliers I dont like.


Why? BT have the Talon and Raven now that Death from the Skies is out.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Im cool with a MC. Its fliers I dont like.


Not just me then.
"hey look I'm a super fast flier that dogfights thousands of feet in the air, watch as I hover 6" off the board while making 90 degree turns and flying in a square"
...fuck that shit.


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

I don't get the trash talking of the fliers. You have two to pick from. That is a direction this game is going in.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

d3m01iti0n said:


> Im cool with a MC. Its fliers I dont like.


and if it's a flying MC?


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## d3m01iti0n (Jun 5, 2012)

I have a Talon and Raven. I just dont field them. For some armies fliers are a crutch. I feel BT orbital bomvards the fuck out of a target, then lands and bum rushes it . I rather run AA personally. Ive got Tank Hunting Termis on a Quad and an AutoCan/CML Contemptor for dem birdies.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

As interesting as this discussion about flyers is, it doesn't belong in a discussion about rumors. Please continue it over in General 40k or 40k Tactics where it will be better suited.


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## jameschalkywhite (Jan 19, 2013)

Just got my Templars list sorted and painting them up and it all seems a waste now if these rumours are true, it is a completely different codex than the 'current' (well, if you can call the 4th ed dex current) one we have in my opinion


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## Jace of Ultramar (Aug 2, 2011)

If marines gets a stompy robo-thing does that mean that the BT would most likely have the same one?


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

jameschalkywhite said:


> Just got my Templars list sorted and painting them up and it all seems a waste now if these rumours are true, it is a completely different codex than the 'current' (well, if you can call the 4th ed dex current) one we have in my opinion


You've got a head start on the next codex from the way I see it. You'll have stuff ready to go (like the Emperor's Champion) so you won't have to paint them later.

Honestly it's the same issue all players face when their book gets updated. Things change, and sometimes new options become better than the old ones. 

Besides, they aren't rumored to drop until at least 2014 as it stands so you have time to enjoy your current codex.



Jace of Ultramar said:


> If marines gets a stompy robo-thing does that mean that the BT would most likely have the same one?


No idea honestly. I'm surprised both books got the Storm Talon and Raven honestly. Perhaps that'll change when the codexes drop though.


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