# the void dragon



## HUMYN HYBRID (Aug 9, 2011)

hey all... been a while since the city daemon showed his face once more.

id like to know more about the void dragon. ive heard tells that the void dragon is an overpowered c'tan lord. other rumours point to him being the machine spirit itself... enlighten me


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## Insanity (Oct 25, 2011)

I think what you mentioned is pretty much all we know about the void dragon. Oh and that he is kept on Mars somewhere deep underground.

Also, hasn't it been awhile since you showed your face around? Haven't seen any posts from you in awhile.


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## HUMYN HYBRID (Aug 9, 2011)

wow... is that it? they like to keep him in mystery, dont they? damn... i really wanted to learn more about this.


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## Brother Dextus (Jan 30, 2013)

The emprah took him to mars in ye olde tymes... (not sure how he survived the vacuum of space, but there we go)


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## daxxglax (Apr 24, 2010)

Yeah, the Void Dragon is either a full C'Tan or looots of C'Tan Void Dragon shards (going by the new Necron lore). I guess he bummed around earth for a while until the Emperor chained him up and bound him on Mars. The Mechanicum would arise during the Age of Strife, and because of the Void Dragon's influence, would found around the concept of the Omnissiah. The Emperor then showed up on Mars, where most of the tech-priests saw him as an aspect of the Omnissiah. Basically, the Emperor used to the Void Dragon to create the Mechanicum (to ensure that his crusade would be well-equipped) and bind the tech-priesthood to his will. The Void Dragon essentially is the Omnissiah, but not strictly as the Mechanicum interprets it. There have been implications that it feeds off the life-force of tech-priests via their augmetics.

The VD hasn't done much since then. There's a small movement of tech-priests that believes the Omnissiah dwells beneath the surface of Mars, but they're in the minority. As we saw in "Mechanicum" there's a secret lineage of guardians to make sure it stays locked up (though apparently the book containing all the info on the Void Dragon and the grand lie of Mars has been taken sometime in the 10,000 years since the Heresy). And there was also that incident where 3 Necron ships were able to get into the Solar System undetected, and one even managed to land on the surface of Mars before being destroyed. It's pretty much taken as a given that they were seeking the Void Dragon.


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

This thread makes me wonder: what happened to the old four ctans? 

Have they been Matt warded too? 

Ventris and Pasanius fought vs what kind of entity in their first novel?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Romanov77 said:


> This thread makes me wonder: what happened to the old four ctans?
> 
> Have they been Matt warded too?
> 
> Ventris and Pasanius fought vs what kind of entity in their first novel?


The entities encountered in those books are now assumed to have been C'tan shards.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

The Void Dragon was supposedly one of the more powerful C'tan (or C'tan shards now). He was able to consume many of his fellows. He has an influence over technology. 

During the War in Heaven the Blackstone Fortresses (star killing weapons) were created to destroy him. They failed to do so, though did weaken him. 

The Void Dragon or one, or several of his shards rested on primitive earth where it was encountered by a young emperor who defeated it and imprisoned it on mars to lay the foundation of the Mechanicus. It's implied that the influence of the slumbering void dragon is partly responsible for the formation and theological direction of the Mechanicus. 

Some of the Mechanicus, having obtained infroamtion of the necrons and the c'tan worship the Void Dragon as the 'true' Omnissiah- the Machine God. This faction has been declared heretics by the orthodox Mechanicus. 

Recently a group of Necron shroud class cruisers managed to land briefly on Mars, their purpose unknown. It's theorised they were attempting to aid/rescue the Void Dragon and may have teleported something to/from him.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

In the HH Book Mechanicum, when:



Dalia Cythera takes up the mantle of being the guardian of the Void Dragon (shard?) the Addenda states, "Ten thousand years would pass before the next Guardian was drawn to the Noctis Labyrinthus, but by then the damage had been done." The damage being the byproduct of the, "book containing the grand lie of Mars had been taken."


I'm thinking that, like everyone's instinct to want the grand story of 40K to progress by having the Emperor awaken, die, ascend to godhood, fade away into nothing, etc. actually addressing the release or awakening of the Void Dragon on Mars would be too cataclysmic of an event. Quite literally a 40K game changer.


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## Romanov77 (Jan 27, 2013)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> I'm thinking that, like everyone's instinct to want the grand story of 40K to progress by having the Emperor awaken, die, ascend to godhood, fade away into nothing, etc. actually addressing the release or awakening of the Void Dragon on Mars would be too cataclysmic of an event. Quite literally a 40K game changer.



Except now he's a broken pokemon-like shard. 

Thanks Ward, you true friend.


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## Silens (Dec 26, 2010)

Here's my understanding of the situation.

The Emperor, before the Age of Strife, captured the Void Dragon (or many shard of the Void Dragon) and trapped them in the caverns beneath Mars. 

The Void Dragon is one of four surviving C'tan after the War in Heaven (they were split into shards around this time, I believe). Only four are left as The Deceiver convinced The Nightbringer that other C'tan were very tasty; The Nightbringer tested this theory and then went on a munch fest with his kin. The four remaining C'tan before being broken into the shards were; The Nightbringer, The Deceiver, The Void Dragon and The Outsider. 

The Void Dragon seems to exhude some influence to sentient beings which makes them more innovative and proficient at creating new technology; the Emprah discovered this, hence the trapping. The colonies of mars began to create much more powerful technologies which the Emperor used to power humanity into their holy crusade across the galaxy. As the people of Mars did not know what this thing was that was empowering them with knowlege and inspiration, the Void Dragon became dubbed as the Machine God and they are now essentially worshipping a C'tan god who has no choice but to inspire new, great technology. The technology which contains the Void Dragon is itself a phenomenal feat. 

Necron flyers translated in-system right into Mars and spent quite some time flying around the caverns of Mars; it can be presumed they were looking for the Void Dragon.


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## HUMYN HYBRID (Aug 9, 2011)

i knew of the history between the deciever and the nightbringer... however, this is the first i have heard of the outsider...


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

The Outsider is a C'tan who went insane after consuming his fellow C'tan. In the Eldar mythic cycle he was tricked to do so by the Laughing God. he was then incarcerated in a dyson sphere. 

And that's all we know. 

There are some half baked fan theories that the Outsider created or is controlling the tyranids but it's dubious to say the least.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Rems said:


> There are some half baked fan theories that the Outsider created or is controlling the tyranids but it's dubious to say the least.


They are absurd. The c'tan are not warp based entities, the warp is anathema and imperceptible to them. It makes no sense that a c'tan (shard or no) could integrate itself into such a psyker oriented race, especially one so fundamentally opposed to what the c'tan themselves represent. 



Silens said:


> Necron flyers translated in-system right into Mars and spent quite some time flying around the caverns of Mars; it can be presumed they were looking for the Void Dragon.


Quite some time? I do not believe a time frame was ever given. Their breach of the Martian defenses could have lasted mere seconds for all we know. 



Romanov77 said:


> Except now he's a broken pokemon-like shard.
> 
> Thanks Ward, you true friend.


I didn't realize there was a pokemon that could annihilate solar systems.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> They are absurd. The c'tan are not warp based entities, the warp is anathema and imperceptible to them. It makes no sense that a c'tan (shard or no) could integrate itself into such a psyker oriented race, especially one so fundamentally opposed to what the c'tan themselves represent.


I've always felt the Old Ones, psychic masters of bio-engineering and whose survivors fled the galaxy (unless you buy into the Slaanesh turning the last survivor into an entire race known as the Umbra but then again they easily could have created the Tyranids before then), created the Tyranids whose various swarms coincidentally come from outside the galaxy.

They knew that in essence they gave birth (or empowered if you believe the whole chaos has always existed even before the concept of time, reality, etc.) to the Chaos powers by creating many psyker races.

So perhaps as a last ditch effort to cleanse the galaxy and start over, they created a race with one gestalt consciousnesses that would yield to nothing but its own hunger and possessed none of the emotions of their previous creations.

I have no proof at all, it's simply conjecture but unless CoTe comes along to shut my theory down, I can't recall any fluff that can disprove this idea of mine.


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## HUMYN HYBRID (Aug 9, 2011)

Malus Darkblade said:


> I have no proof at all, it's simply conjecture but unless CoTe comes along to shut my theory down, I can't recall any fluff that can disprove this idea of mine.


well, it never hurt to come up with your own theories, especially when there is so little data in the first place about asid subject... and thats what i like per say


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

malus darkblade said:


> i've always felt the old ones, psychic masters of bio-engineering and whose survivors fled the galaxy (unless you buy into the slaanesh turning the last survivor into an entire race known as the umbra but then again they easily could have created the tyranids before then), created the tyranids whose various swarms coincidentally come from outside the galaxy.
> 
> They knew that in essence they gave birth (or empowered if you believe the whole chaos has always existed even before the concept of time, reality, etc.) to the chaos powers by creating many psyker races.
> 
> ...


*I've been saying this for years!*


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## Iniquity (Jan 13, 2013)

Malus Darkblade said:


> I've always felt the Old Ones, psychic masters of bio-engineering and whose survivors fled the galaxy (unless you buy into the Slaanesh turning the last survivor into an entire race known as the Umbra but then again they easily could have created the Tyranids before then), created the Tyranids whose various swarms coincidentally come from outside the galaxy.
> 
> They knew that in essence they gave birth (or empowered if you believe the whole chaos has always existed even before the concept of time, reality, etc.) to the Chaos powers by creating many psyker races.
> 
> ...


This could explain why an entire tendril of a hive fleet chose to go dormant rather than land on a Necron tomb world...


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Not sure what your point is. Can you elaborate?


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Serpion5 said:


> Quite some time? I do not believe a time frame was ever given. Their breach of the Martian defenses could have lasted mere seconds for all we know.


There was a time frame given. Only one of the ships managed to land on the surface (descending as fast as possible) and was vaporised in seconds.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Silens said:


> The Void Dragon is one of four surviving C'tan after the War in Heaven (they were split into shards around this time, I believe).


Though I believe the new lore suggests many more than four C'tan were sharded by the Necron rebellion and thus still exist. 



Silens said:


> Necron flyers translated in-system right into Mars and spent quite some time flying around the caverns of Mars; it can be presumed they were looking for the Void Dragon.





Serpion5 said:


> Quite some time? I do not believe a time frame was ever given. Their breach of the Martian defenses could have lasted mere seconds for all we know.


As _Rems_ said: A timeline was given. The Necron ships were destroyed almost as soon as they touched down on Martian soil. 



Malus Darkblade said:


> I've always felt the Old Ones, psychic masters of bio-engineering and whose survivors fled the galaxy (unless you buy into the Slaanesh turning the last survivor into an entire race known as the Umbra but then again they easily could have created the Tyranids before then), created the Tyranids whose various swarms coincidentally come from outside the galaxy.
> 
> They knew that in essence they gave birth (or empowered if you believe the whole chaos has always existed even before the concept of time, reality, etc.) to the Chaos powers by creating many psyker races.
> 
> ...


I will back up _Serp_ here, because he has subscribed to such a theory for years. Though no much pays him much attention. :laugh:

It certainly has more credibility than the Outsider theory anyway. There is an interesting reference in _Codex: Tyranids_ which refers to the Tyranid threat as _"The Penance of the Elder Gods"_. And whilst such a term is obviously ambiguous, it can be used to support the notion that the Old Ones (having greatly accelerated the rise of Chaos) had some hand in the development of, or in manipulating the Great Devourer. The fact that the Tyranids are being drawn inextricably towards Terra by the Emperor's Astronomican may also be used to support this if the Emperor is viewed as the epitome of the failure of the Old Ones (despite his apparent incorruptibility). Though that may be grasping at straws.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Wait. Why would the Emperor represent anything to the Old Ones, especially a massive failure?

Has it been confirmed that the Old Ones had a hand in creating humans? I thought they simply guided them but not nearly as much as the other races or they were one of the few races the Old Ones did not influence.

In any case, why would the Emperor be considered a failure in the Old Ones eyes? If anything he's single-handedly done so much more than they have in the fight against Chaos.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Wait. Why would the Emperor represent anything to the Old Ones, especially a massive failure?
> 
> Has it been confirmed that the Old Ones had a hand in creating humans? I thought they simply guided them but not nearly as much as the other races or they were one of the few races the Old Ones did not influence.
> 
> In any case, why would the Emperor be considered a failure in the Old Ones eyes? If anything he's single-handedly done so much more than they have in the fight against Chaos.


I did say I may have just been grasping at straws, and I certainly didn't mean directly - I was thinking more in an abstract/symbolic/quintessential way. What I meant was that the Emperor (being the most powerful psyker ever) represents - at least in some manner - the epitome of what the Old Ones recklessly tampered with during the War in Heaven. And despite the Emperor firmly opposing the machinations of Chaos, simply by being the most powerful psyker ever and failing to challenge Chaos, whilst being part of the human race who themselves have massively boosted the dominance of Chaos, he represents the repeated failure of both the Old Ones and Eldar to keep Chaos in check (all three civilisations having instead given further power to the Chaos Gods). Thus (as the theory goes) the Old Ones manipulated the Tyranids to destroy the dominance of mortal psykers - and thus Chaos - by converging on the seat of power of the greatest psyker ever: the Emperor.

Or perhaps in that manner he represented the one hope of reverting the negative legacy of the Old Ones after the Eldar had catastrophically failed. Who knows.

Anyway, I didn't want to get too caught up in that point, it is largely irrelevant. The implications of the _"Penance of the Elder Gods"_ phrase is much more interesting.


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## HUMYN HYBRID (Aug 9, 2011)

hearing alot of unheard theories... i really need to stop getting out more 

on another note, as far as im concerned, i dont really think the od ones had much to do with the creation of the human race, merely let them raise themselves. this brings up another theory i heard lately, and have to admit, a little suprised.

being the tau nutter that i am, are the rumours ive heard about the eldar creating the tau true? i mean sure, they can be an extremely dangerous weapon to the inhabitants of the warp for the simple fact that their minds are nearly, but not fully, invisible to the warp, but would this be a creation of the eldar? a freak warp storm surrounding their planetary empire speeding up their advance into technology... it all fits.... but i cant help but think there is something... missing


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I did say I may have just been grasping at straws, and I certainly didn't mean directly - I was thinking more in an abstract/symbolic/quintessential way. What I meant was that the Emperor (being the most powerful psyker ever) represents - at least in some manner - the epitome of what the Old Ones recklessly tampered with during the War in Heaven. And despite the Emperor firmly opposing the machinations of Chaos, simply by being the most powerful psyker ever and failing to challenge Chaos, whilst being part of the human race who themselves have massively boosted the dominance of Chaos, he represents the repeated failure of both the Old Ones and Eldar to keep Chaos in check (all three civilisations having instead given further power to the Chaos Gods). Thus (as the theory goes) the Old Ones manipulated the Tyranids to destroy the dominance of mortal psykers - and thus Chaos - by converging on the seat of power of the greatest psyker ever: the Emperor.
> 
> Or perhaps in that manner he represented the one hope of reverting the negative legacy of the Old Ones after the Eldar had catastrophically failed. Who knows.
> 
> Anyway, I didn't want to get too caught up in that point, it is largely irrelevant. The implications of the _"Penance of the Elder Gods"_ phrase is much more interesting.


Unless there's an indication that the Tyranids go after the Necron, I don't see how a connection between the Old Ones and the Tyranids can work... I can understand how from a functional sense in that the Old Ones bio-engineered the psyker gene into many of their creations and the Nids are the ultimate psychic hive mind, but their very purpose works in conjunction with the Necron, e.g. the destruction of all life in the galaxy, not against them.

If the Necron are on their game, they'd determine where the Nids are going to strike then cut off the supply lines of the defending race and go dormant again. Use the Nids as their foot soldiers in a two-front war with the sentient living species of the galaxy.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> As Rems said: A timeline was given. The Necron ships were destroyed almost as soon as they touched down on Martian soil.


What I meant was we do not know how long the attack lasted before the defenses were breached and we do not know how long the ships were inside the perimeter before they attempted to land. 

The entire ordeal could have been over in minutes or it could have lasted a few hours depending on how things played out. 



Malus Darkblade said:


> Has it been confirmed that the Old Ones had a hand in creating humans? I thought they simply guided them but not nearly as much as the other races or they were one of the few races the Old Ones did not influence.


It was implied that humans were a very late creation, given the genes necessary to become psykers. However the Old Ones were broken and destroyed before anything further could be done, leaving raw elemental evolution to take hold.


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## Sangriento (Dec 1, 2010)

Romanov77 said:


> Except now he's a broken pokemon-like shard.
> 
> Thanks Ward, you true friend.


the mere fact of the Omnisiah *not *being the Emperor but a xenos would have been enough to break the alliance between Terra and the Mechanicus.

That on itself spells out almost certain doom for mankind

quite the game changer if you ask me...


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