# Fantasy - I'm doing it wrong?



## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Hi!

I was introduced to GW about 10 years ago with WFB (lizardmen). I kinda enjoyed the game, but my group quickly moved to WH40k. We'd found it to be a lot more dynamic and diversified and stopped WFB completely 4-5 years ago.

Now, with 8th ed. we started again. I got back into Lizardmen and my best friend got Empire. We played about 5-6 games (2000-2500 pts) during the last 6 months, life (in general) and a 40k tournement monopolizing our time.

We have this impression of having played the exact same game every time. His warmachines shoot me, our blocks of infantry get into contact, Wizards buff/debuff, occasionaly a big spell will wipe out most of a block. Salamanders flame, pistoliers shoot. That's pretty much it.

I've changed my list a bit. Got different lores for my Slann (none as good as Life). Got a stegadon (got shot on turn one by cannons). Tried Cold one Cavalry (did ok, but not a game-changer). My friend tried some cavalry, changing warmachine type, etc. So we shuffled our lists a bit. We tried 2-3scenarios.

Now, while the game is still fun (mind you, I'm playing a strategy game with a friend while having a good homebrew, how could it not be!), I really don't get the excitment I get with 40k. No reserves coming in to save the day. No lone trooper assaulting a Leman Russ to blow it up with a grenade in a desperate move. No dashing to objectives for a last minute grab.... 

Is it just, as my friend suggested, that playing Empire vs Lizardmen will always give a similar game? I quite probably won't buy another army (trying to not buy GW stuff anymore. While I love the game, I'm fed up with the company). Any other clue?

Phil


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

Well if you playing the same person all the time then yes it will get a little stale. 
I find the whole point of the hobby is face a whole range of players and armies. If he is the only one local to you may i suggest coming up with and throwing in your own special scenarios and magical terrain? 

Also if your not looking to start a new army but add new things which lizardmen dont normally get have a look at the storm of magic book! You dont have to buy GW models for a lot of the beasties in there.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

I play most of my games against the same opponent and there is a certain similarity with each game; however I find that the new rules for crazy scenery add a challenge to every game.

I also change my list before each day of gaming so - while some things will be the same - I have the enjoyment of seeing my new strategies get smacked with the reality stick. I am not very familiar with Lizardmen, however most Army Books have more than one solid build so possibly yuo could change your game without changing your army.


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

I too have a regular opponant and while our games seem to have the same ebb and flow we switch it up by playing through the different scenarios in the rulebook and occassionally swapping armies...always seems to liven things up a little


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## boreas (Dec 4, 2007)

Okely!

So, scenarios and terrain. We've been reluctant to use the special terrain, but I think it's time!

Thanks all!

Phil


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

The rules for Terrain will deffinately add some spice to your games as only 1/6 forests in the warhammer world are "normal forests"


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

*pulls out a crystal ball* i see a second army in your future ......

seriously though, this happens alot to home gamers ,limited opponents tends to lead to similar games which then can lead to people getting a second army to spice it up a bit or try another system.
but you could try also adding allies in a dogs of war fashion, or storm of magic or try swapping armies for a few games, plus hasnt GW just released a missions book or something ? might be worth a look


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> ...hasnt GW just released a missions book or something ? might be worth a look


Blood in the Badlands: with rules for sieges and underground battles it will certainly add varied challenges to a game even if you do not play the campaign.

If you are playing regularly then a campaign might also add spice: if your unit has lived its history then you will really feel the risks.


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## Deathypoo (Jun 27, 2011)

I also have one opponent who I've played 90%+ of my games against...

And if you're not using the terrain let me just say that it spices up the game a LOT. I really like what they did to it in 8th edition too (no more 1/2 speed penalty, more random dangers/buffs).


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## LordofFenris (Mar 10, 2010)

Might I suggest a second army as well: However!

You could not get GW models for an army. There are many good, and cheap, small companies out there that put out an amazing amount of stuff: Mantic Games, Warlord Games, ect ect. I would also look online for the "unoffical" army PDF's:

Amazons (duh)
Cathay (Chinese)
Nippon (Japanese)
Araby (Middle Eastern)
Norse (Vikings!)

Once again, many companies put out historical models that would work great for those unofficial books.

You could also try Mordhiem campaigns....skirmish level and fun....and free!


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## KarnalBloodfist (Jan 30, 2010)

I tend to play against the same 2 or 3 people. Each player tends to run pretty much the same list as well. If you're not interested in a 2nd army, instead of just shuffling a unit or 2 around, try changing the entire makeup of your army. Instead of using a slaan, try using the saurus lord (sorry, can't remember the name off the top of my head...Old Blood comes to mind though...). Try MSU/MMU tactics. And like everyone else has said, bust out those new interactive terrain rules! :biggrin: For some reason, I have one opponent where we can't seem to roll less than 9 pieces of terrain! 

You said you liked the objective based nature of the 40K scenarios? Make some objectives for your games: +xVPs if one of your units are garrisoning a building/holding a hill/in your opponents deployment zone at the end of the game. You could even copy from 40K and drop objective markers on the table - use the same rules as 40K for holding those objectives. Use your core units as your scoring units.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

The games you play are only limited by your imagination.
Between you and your opponents try and figure out some scenario's that change how you set up or bring on your armies then switch it round so you both get a go.
If you get stuck then the older white dwarf mag's have some pretty cool battles you can play.
The game will always get stale if you always take the same force against the same opponent and just line up and bash each other till someone wins but by introducing alternative scenarios you change the way the whole army works without having to spend out a load of money on models or investing in to much scenery or whatever.


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

Give Mordheim a shot. It's cheap, quick and fun. I bought 1 box of quarellers and 2 slayers and never needed anything else. It's okay with 2 people in a campaign but you can easily attract mor with a little bit of effort. (just put up a flyer and a sign up sheet in your shop and help new players learn it) The ease of getting started is attractive to new players who don't want to lay out a hundred bucks to try it.

Whatever you choose to do remember, never do the same thing until you're sick of it.


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## elbatsdap (Jan 13, 2012)

Great details. Thanks.



--------------------
Table Pads
Table Pad


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## Abomination (Jul 6, 2008)

I have a regular opponent and while our battles tend to have a similar sort of flow game to game it's easy to avoid any predictability or staleness by changing up scenarios, using the terrain special rules and varying our army set-ups. These are the easiest things to do and can really mix things up.

If you wanted to vary things up more you could always try Storm Of Magic or Blood In The Badlands *or the new WD-based Civil War) expansions. Try changing point levels too and maybe coming up with your own special-rules. Of course the simplest way, but one that requires alot of time/effort and ofc money would be a second army.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

When playing casual games we often proxy armies. In friendly, more casual tourneys, I have seen people play models from one army as models from another army as long as they are of the same troop types and look reasonable for what they are intended to represent. Proxy armies are a good way to test out strategies and see what armies you'd like to play next or what to buy before you buy it; so even top-ranked players play proxy units in their armies from time-to-time in casual games. It is kind of like playing chess with chess pieces that look different. 

It is also quite simple. Just make up some movement trays for the units; put some models from the army you have that are of the right troop type and base size in a movement tray and put a note on the unit saying what it is for intended play purposes; and put down bases without models or unit fillers in the movement tray to represent additional models if you don't have enough proxy models for the unit you intend to represent. Sometimes if one is missing a type of unit you can make something that sort of represents it. It is NOT as fun as modeling the correct units and playing fully painted armies but it breaks the monotony. Also, I never play the exact same army list from one game or tournament to the next even if I primarily play my favorite army (not that it is finally modeled and painted well enough to get an average to above average paint score). 

The other thing is to identify local Internet sites and stores with active player groups and find out who they are, where they play, and how to meet up for games. I have two sons that play (17 and 20 years old) and we have seven playable armies at home (three fully modeled and painted to high gaming standard, two partially painted but fully modeled and assembled, and two armies assembled for the most part but not any paint on them). Despite that, we hardly play each other but often go to a gaming store to play and my youngest son and I go to 3 to 5 one-day (3 game) events and 4 to 7 two-days tournaments (5 to 6 games) a year. We really have a blast. 

IMO Fantasy is best played in a formal setting with interesting and suprising objectives and terrain to enhance the game; one of the reasons we like to go to one-day local tourneys and two-day Indy GTs that are managed and attract a lot of mature players with emphasis on sportsmanship and painting. I and a lot of the older players (guys over 35) actually prefer fantasy because the outcomes are more based on unit match-ups and tactics. Because it is less random than 40K and much more about tactics and strategy, our area tends to get an older mix of players at the fantasy tourneys than 40K but fewer players playing fantasy (especially with the high points costs and larger numbers of models required to play at 2500 and 3000 points in fantasy). In fact, a lot of experienced fantasy players in our area do not like 40K and have complained (not me, I like 8th edition) about true line of sight (makes war machine shooting and magic more effective) and more powerful magic in 8th edition over 7th edition because 7th edition to them was more about deployment, movement and tactics and "felt" less random to them.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

olderplayer said:


> ...put down bases without models or unit fillers in the movement tray to represent additional models if you don't have enough proxy models for the unit you intend to represent.


If you keep the actual models around the edge of the unit and fill the centre (i.e. remove blank bases as casualties and the tidy up the ranks)you can even maintain the same visual profile, so there is no question of whether a unit would be visible if there was a model instead of an empty base.


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## FuzzyRabbit (Mar 12, 2009)

I play lizardmen, usually against tSoH who plays Chaos warriors. I have found that the games are similar but not boring. I usually take a Slaan with lore of light. If I dont make a magic role or get too few power dice a turn, things change dramastically. Also I change up my special or rare choices. Take more stegadons or maybe cavalry. Even when facing the same chaos list this changes how I play, and usually the outcome of the game. I would suggest getting some extra units and swapping them in and out or playing storm of magic.


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## gop (Jun 14, 2010)

Get thee down to your FLGS or club and mix it up a bit.


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