# Eldar vs Chaos - Need help.



## OniellSG1 (Feb 7, 2008)

sorry guys new to this forum so not exctly sure where i should put this.

Being new to 40K i bought a second hand army which includes the following

2 x Dark Reaper Squads
1 x Dire Avenger Squad

2 x Warlocks
1 x Farseer
1 x Autaurch

2 x Heavy Platform 1 with a vibro cannon & 1 with D Cannon
1 x War Walker with Star Cannon & Bright lance

1 x Avatar of Khaine

1 x Falcon.


I have played about 6 battles altogether all against Chaos and Lost 5 and drawn 1. No matter how i deploy or which tactics i use i ALWAYS get slaughtered.

one problem i have are Chaos Terminators which have the 2+ armour save and can move and shoot heavy weapons. I try to take these guys down early on with my Dark reapers but once they move into range, they cannot shoot because they carry heavy weapons.

I am also usually faced with thousand sons - think thats correct- which i can usually carve up with my Avater and so on.

I don't really know how to use my Warlock and my Farseer to their potential and as for my War Walker, it is usually destroyed by the end of turn one.


Any deployment and tactics would be appreciated as well as any army exspansion ideas.

Cheers
James


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

First thing, try to keep your non-tank vehicles over 6" in or behind cover, where they can move out to shoot and not get massacred. Second, the farseer's main role is to supplement a squads potential. I recommend Guide and Doom as powers, with spirit stones and Runes of Witnessing. Doom the nearest & strongest threat then Guide your most capable shooting squad, so you can pretty much annihilate said threat.
Your main issue is unit selection. Your force isn't ready to deal with something like Terminators or even a tough tank. Pick up another D-Cannon to get a barrage of them going, as they can MAIM terminators and tanks alike.
Keep the reapers in cover or shielded by Avengers, and use the vibro cannon as its own squad or not at all unless facing light-armored armies. NEVER waste your Dark Reaper attacks on terminators unless thats your only target. They are too points-expensive to waste on something that can shrug them off.
Another option is to pick up some howling banshees and/or fire dragons to deal with threats that get to close, mainly heavy armored troops or vehicles. NOTHING is more devastating than a 10-man Fire Dragon squad shooting at a DOOMed target with GUIDE and having an avatar with them. I use it regularly, just trying to keep them out of long-range fire. A final option is to use a pheonix lord that can wade through combat, like Jain Zar(6 on charge), Karandras(8 attacks on charge! but strikes last), or Maugen Ra.
I personally think they are better than an avatar as they can hide and mingle with units(of their own type), and don't suffer the Monstrous Creature rules to be shot by anything and everything.

Remember, Eldar can hit harder than any force, but are really fragile on the return if they don't have cover or units to soak the damage.


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

hes right.. i took out out a whole marines army with 15-20 rangers

he had a dred, 10 scouts 5-10 termis and a land speeder.

i lost half of my men

but the advice above must be used.. its more or less what i do.


my karandras took out a necron lord whielst my hawks avatar and fir dragons took on monoliths with my dire avengers and other aspect troops tieing up shooty troops


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## bobinatorect (Nov 24, 2007)

Firstly what are you using as your army list? Is that everything? I see 3 HQ, 4 Heavy, and only 1 Troop choice.

Anyway, if your really worried about terminators, put in some star cannons. They are Str 6 AP 2. That cleans up terminators rather quickly when you have a couple of star cannons firing into them. Remember terminators are slow foot sluggers, your going to get some shots into them unless they Deep Strike, (then you normally will only get 1 volley) or if they are in a Land Raider. If that is the case then you normally have larger problems than the terminators.

Personally I think the War Walker should only be used as a decorative paper weight. Enough said about that.

I play Chaos and use Thousand Sons a decent amount. The trick in killing them is to hit them with a ton of attacks. They have that nice 4+ invul so don't bother wasting your strong guns against them. Just get 10 Dire Avengers and use Bladestorm. Thats 30 shots 20 should hit and 10 should wound. Thats at least a couple dead.

Warlocks are used for enhancing the Farseer or things like Guardians and Wraithguard. At least IMO.

The Avatar is a MUST in every Eldar list. 155 points to make your guys within 12" Fearless alone is worth it. Plus the nice damage he can do against normal marines, and remember he has the Wailing Doom and can blow tanks up too.

I agree with Wrath of Khaine that Guide and Doom for a Farseer is sweet. Especially when used with Dark Reapers. That just spells marine killing action, but another use for a Farseer can be Fortune. Fortune the Avatar and send it killing. It works really well, and for the few attacks that might actually wound him he gets to re roll his save. That is just sick...

Personally I am not to familiar with the D-cannon, but I love Vibro Cannons. Especially if the are in groups of 3. Don't underestimate them, an automatic glancing hit is pretty sweet. Like say against a Monolith, or a Land Raider. Or better yet hitting 2 tanks a speeder and a troop squad all at the same time, and this could all be yours if the line is right!

Falcons... Bright Lance, Pulse Laser, Holo Fields, maybe Vectored Engines...
Move over 6" a turn... It doesn't die...

Anyway for what you have shown there I think some Guardians with Star cannons would be a nice addition. Also maybe add a squad of elites. Fire Dragons if your worried about armor, Harlequins if you face lots of infantry, and Banshees and Scorpions can be good for that too. But I like the Harlequins with the Harlequin Kiss which gives them rending. It makes it so they can take out vehicles if the need to.


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## OniellSG1 (Feb 7, 2008)

Thanks for the comments guys. 

I think i can safely say that i need more Star Cannons. In order to get a basic force oganisation force i sometimes split the Dire Avengers into 2 five man squads though they seem to die faster like this.

OK nxt time i pay myself Fire Scorpions is on my list. Will also get another Weapons Platform get a couple more Star Cannons

James


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

I also just began playing Eldar :biggrin:

My set-up is quite different though and maybe you should consider a few things. 
1) Your Dark Reapers should ALWAYS act as an artilery piece. Since you have 2 suqads, I suggest placing one in an open, wide-view area AND IN COVER. Once the opposition places his next choice, you can make a decision on where to place the second unit(once again in cover). Leave them there with a cheap farseer and unleash on your foe!

2) The Eldar probly have the toughest tanks in the game (besides the monolith... filthy pyramid of death...) Use your falcon to its full extent, that includes transport. I would acquire a squad of firedragons to stick in the thing. Also, you should use a Wave Serent to carry your dire avengers. You can shoot across the map with your star engines, keep your DA cozzy for a round, then deploy with a solid mass of shots (keep in mind your exarch should always use bladestorm). There are many other options for transporting units. For instance, I like to though a squad of scorpions into my falcon every now and again depending on the army I play. I would suggest you try it with bannshees.

3) If you want more bang for your buck, you should trade your semi-expensive farseer for the phycher of doom, Eldrad Ulthran. He is a much more veretile choice as you can use 3 phyc powers instead of 2. And you can cast doom or guide more than once which can help A LOT. Also you get the benefit of those other fun powers like mind war and eldritch storm (both of which can be very effective)

4) Avatar are only good for a foot slogging army equiped for CC. From the looks of it, you should stay away from using him right now...

5) Pheonix lords are where its at. I hear a lot of complaining about how expensive they are, but then again I also here a lot of complaining about how cheap they are (in a battle situation ^^). I would suggest either Fuegan to go with some firedragons or Jain Zar to go with some banshees. They povide an excellent addition to any squad. Fuegan is a beast pecause he makes his firedragon squad fearless. He also attacks as a monstrous creature, so thats 5 attacks S5 attacks that ignore armour saves. He also has that feel no pain SR that allows him to negate wounds (very handy).

6)You really need to play your army for a specific type of combat. This also depend on the army that you are playing against. I used to think a defensive army would be best against the Tyrannids, but it turns out the Eldar are very cappable at CC against the bugs (need those Harlequins for that job). My point being, you either need to move forard (and fast) with a quick, devestating strike, or sit back and play it slow and safe, avoiding any major hits and assaults. Dark Reapers do this well with a farseer. I like to mix it a little. I have the Dark Reapers and Rangers lay down some fire while i move my 2 squads of firedragons to the other side of the board (in my falcon and waver serpent) and deploy right next to their favorite shinny tanks to say hello. Fuegan says hello to a lot of people :biggrin:

Anywho... Your army is what you want it. Eveyone will choose to do something different and that doesnt mean your doing something wrong. I don't have a tremendous amount of experience, but this is what I have learned so far and an army is only as good as you play it.


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## OniellSG1 (Feb 7, 2008)

Desolatemm said:


> 1) Your Dark Reapers should ALWAYS act as an artilery piece. Since you have 2 suqads, I suggest placing one in an open, wide-view area AND IN COVER. Once the opposition places his next choice, you can make a decision on where to place the second unit(once again in cover). Leave them there with a cheap farseer and unleash on your foe!
> 
> sounds like some good advice there Desolatemm. How would i use the farseer? I know that Guide allows re-rolls on scatter and Wounds etc but how would this benefit the Reapers under cover? I suppose i could couple my two weapons platforms under cover with the Farseer as i could use guide with the D Cannon.
> 
> James


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

The farseer is pretty straight forward. If you want him to be cheap, he is best assisting a squad with doom, fortune, or guide (I would suggest doom and guide because the Reapers have a pretty good save). Remember to look at all the rules with his wargear. You can use 2 powers per round if you equip him with Spirit Stones. Guide should be reserved for the Reapers, although with a 3+ to hit you probly wont miss too much. It is always nice to have those few extra shots. And doom should be cast onto the nearest and biggest threat. If there is only one small squad in range for this, just target it. It never hurts to spamm his powers when he will almost NEVER suffer perils of the warp (equip him with runes of wit. to increas his odds). Other powers make him a little more pricy, but they all kick some tail!

If you are tipping more toward an expensive farseer, don't waste your points. Get Eldrad Ulthran. He has so many more benefits than the normal farseer. He can cast 3 powers, has a 3+ invuln save instead of 4+, has a little higher toughness, and at the begining of the game you can move some of your models around (playing mind games, best tactic!) I think the koolest thing I've done with this was to set my falcon with my firedragons down first, at the beginning of a game. He set two of his Hammer heads on the opposite side of the board hoping to get them away from my fire squad of death. When we all set up, I was able to move my falcon over to my wave serpent and start off in a better position to strike the hammer heads (they may be skimmers, but they die very easy to a horde of melta weapons:biggrin.

Yeah, so if you are strapped down and dont have a lot of points to spare, get a farseer with very little on him. Even just equiping him with guide makes him dangerous. But, if you want to do a lot more damage to your enemy, I would suggest getting Eldrad Ulthran. Happy Hunting


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## fluffstalker (Feb 12, 2008)

IF you truly wish to have an effective anti power armour force, then generic eldar is probably not the way to go. 

Being an ulthwe player myself, I can tell you that not only is ulthwe reltatively simple for a new players as it doesnt rely so much on aspect warriors and precise tactics but rather is a shooty and resilient army that excels on the defense. (Note in talking about an regular ulthwe army, not an ultwhe strike force)

Your list lacks guardians. Dont understimate the little buggers. Get two to three squads of guardians and equip with starcannons. With Black guardians you might even drown some csm in shuriken. PUt a warlock with conceal and you have a suprisingly durable squad that can shoot at long and close range. 

Id agree with the previous poster on the six Fire dragons in the Falcon. This will strike fear into the heart of your opponent and will probably draw alot of his fire. However, dont get too gung ho with the falcon as chaos autocannons LOVe, repeat LOVE skimmers. Quantity not quality is what will come from those termies and perhaps his infiltrating havocs and preds. Use terrain so that you can onlky get shot at by a few of his units. 

AS for the rest of your army it seems ok except for the DA. Nice models, but really just over expensive guardians and against Chaos? Up to you in the end, but Id rather get more guardian starcannon squads, or better yet, another Falcon. Dark Reapers and Fire Dragons/HowlingBAnshees in a transport are really your only effective aspect options. 

Also-moving forward and attacking in a "swift, devastating strike" sounds nice but against chaos if he kits out right it would probably make his day. "Nice i dont have to walk so far!" Seriously, a daemon prince with certain wargear can eat scorps, banshees, even seer councils. Possessed and Dreads can get plain nasty too. 

My advice in case it gets to CC? A council with quite a few extra warlocks, all with wblades. Yes I know dreadaxe dprince, but he will be afraid to get too clsoe as wblades can take him out if hes unlucky with his rolls. This and a WLord will hopefully be enough to wipe out whatever you didnt shoot up. Keep the Wlord in cover or even behind something because hes just there for combat and ifyou try to have him shoot hell get rended or lascannoned.


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## Sleedon (Jan 22, 2008)

I aggree with the fire dragons and the guardians. But it is my opinion that in a charge a well equiped harlequin troupe can take on almost any squad in meele. For example I have charged my brothers termi squad in meele and beat it.
Also don't underestimate the power of a seer council in meele. Think about it six people with ws. 4 and 5


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## fluffstalker (Feb 12, 2008)

Im not saying they arent strong. Ive taken out vanilla marine armies and ig armies with my seer council alone and it was tooled for support. But chaos is a whole different ball game.

If you want harlies then its up to you- they're fun and powerful but remember to keep them out of LoS until its time to countercharge because again invul saves just dont hold up to mass autocannon fire. Also in combat, the seer council can do ok if it manages to charge and get those extra attacks, but if you cant do enough the first turn his cc troops will start taking you apart. Better to be safe then sorry.


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## psychomidget99 (Feb 10, 2008)

My friend, if it has a 2+ armour save, don't waste your Reaper's on them: your Dire Avenger's can do the job just fine, even better with Bladestorm. Save them for his marines (especially Khorne Bezerkers, but no tPlague Marines. Kill them with some Harlequins).

If there's anything to kill off those termies, then it's an Avatar of Khaine, Fortuned and against a Doomed unit. 5 attacks hitting on 3's and wounding on 2's with re-rolls from a Monstrous Creature. Plus if he hits you on his 5's and wounds on his 6's (assumng they've got power weapons), then you've still got a 4+ invulnerable save which can be re-rolled. My Avatar has survived 3 Baal Predator's tearing him apart for 2 turns, the 2nd was after my Farseer was his by a Krak Missile in the head.

Another unit to kill termies is a unit of War Walkers with twin-linked Starcannons. I'd know, as I've had my Thousand Son Terminators blown to pieces by a crapload of Starcannons- I didn't know they were AP2!

Autarchs aren't really to my taste- I just don't like them. I've got no advice on how to use them.


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