# Upcoming IG player list help please



## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

Been looking at the IG Codex and searching up some lists and I'm planning on getting some models after Christmas...depending on what I get from my family  

To start before I spam y'all with questions I want to say my list will be a primarily Mech list with primarily 3x MeltaVets in a Chimera "spam" if you'll call it with Valkyries and our awesome Heavy Support tanks. That is probably what I want to base it around and I would rather not have any ground infantry, just mostly tanks and Chimeras. I finished my Tyranid army and had to do 40+ Genestealers and 80+ Termagants...no more!!!! (Imagine painting that...) I want this army to be few models (hence tanks) and not stressful to put together with 1,000 bodies like Nids...


So here we go!

Edit: I'm planning to make a list up to around 1,750 points! Forgot to mention that...

1) What is the most common loadout for Valkyries? I am REALLY liking the Vendetta Gunship version and plan on running 1-2 of them at almost every point level. Plus I think they look super cool. I like the Vendetta version but don't know what the most common other wargear is used to equip on it.

2) Like the above question what is the most common loadout on a Chimera with 3x Melta Vets in the inside? I see a lot of lists with Heavy Flamers... Are Chimeras suppose to be suiciding in close to the enemies to drop off the Vets?

3) Linking to question 2, why do most people put Melta's on Vet squads riding Chimeras. I would think they could put longer range weapons like replacing 2x Vets with Heavy Weapon Vets, giving them Auto Cannons and making use of that 36" range that they have. Not to mention the multi-laser on the Chimera is also 36" so you can stay clear of your enemy a lot easier! Why do most lists I see go 3xmelta vet/flamer chimera?

4) Before I ask this question please do not take into account what models are not available by GW. I have no problem converting or buying FW models. I actually enjoy it  
What heavy slot should I choose? There are so many good options and being completely new and just almost finished reading the Codex I can't decide! I also don't want to buy stuff and be disappointed it doesn't have good synergy with the rest of my army... Ok so knowing I am going to run 1-2 Valks, Chimera spam with either melta/flamer what heavy slots should I take to compliment this list and why? Any explanation on synergy and why you are suggesting certain tanks would be extremely welcomed and appreciated! Please suggest multiple models not just single ones as I am planning to buy the entire army and everything I need to convert for it at once. (Cheaper ) Thinking Lemans Russ's in 1-2 models/unit, Hydras in 1-2 models/unit and Basilisks in 1-2 models/unit? But I have no idea I'm just picking randomly what sounded cool...no idea if it even works well or compliments the rest of my list >_<

5) Is this list that I started and getting help to compile going to be fairly competitive? A majority of the lists I see out there are infantry heavy for IG. As I said earlier I really don't want to do the horde like model construction again since I got burned out doing it for my Nids army...

6) One last little question...I don't see any psychic defense stuff anywhere in the Codex. Thought Psyker Battle Squads or that Psyker HQ would do something but no Psychic hoods or anything anywhere. Does IG have no psychic defense?


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

syypher said:


> 1) What is the most common loadout for Valkyries? I am REALLY liking the Vendetta Gunship version and plan on running 1-2 of them at almost every point level. Plus I think they look super cool. I like the Vendetta version but don't know what the most common other wargear is used to equip on it.


Multiple Rocket Pods & Multilaser for the standard carrier - 2x S4 large blasts and 3x S6 shots whilst moving up to 12" and carrying 12 men is rather sweet.

Vendetta is either vanilla (leave it with three TLLC) or add heavy bolters for shooting troops after tanks/MC's are dealt with.



syypher said:


> 2) Like the above question what is the most common loadout on a Chimera with 3x Melta Vets in the inside? I see a lot of lists with Heavy Flamers... Are Chimeras suppose to be suiciding in close to the enemies to drop off the Vets?


Multilaser & Heavy Flamer for transports that will be mobile, like Vet transports. The Multilaser is an excellent weapon and as you can only fire one after moving up to 6" it might as well be this. Good range & strength.
Heavy flamer is a good backup weapon for anything that gets too close.



syypher said:


> 3) Linking to question 2, why do most people put Melta's on Vet squads riding Chimeras. I would think they could put longer range weapons like replacing 2x Vets with Heavy Weapon Vets, giving them Auto Cannons and making use of that 36" range that they have. Not to mention the multi-laser on the Chimera is also 36" so you can stay clear of your enemy a lot easier! Why do most lists I see go 3xmelta vet/flamer chimera?


Three meltaguns are excellent on BS4 models - they can kill anything in the game with AP1 and S8. T4 Marines characters being instant killed, AV14 tanks popped with no problems (the AP1 +1 on the damage chart is too good in this edition)

The reason why you don't see many long-range guns in the Vet squads is because the Guard do not lack for long range firepower (see heavy support/troops/fast attack)



syypher said:


> 4) Before I ask this question please do not take into account what models are not available by GW. I have no problem converting or buying FW models. I actually enjoy it
> What heavy slot should I choose? There are so many good options and being completely new and just almost finished reading the Codex I can't decide! I also don't want to buy stuff and be disappointed it doesn't have good synergy with the rest of my army... Ok so knowing I am going to run 1-2 Valks, Chimera spam with either melta/flamer what heavy slots should I take to compliment this list and why? Any explanation on synergy and why you are suggesting certain tanks would be extremely welcomed and appreciated! Please suggest multiple models not just single ones as I am planning to buy the entire army and everything I need to convert for it at once. (Cheaper ) Thinking Lemans Russ's in 1-2 models/unit, Hydras in 1-2 models/unit and Basilisks in 1-2 models/unit? But I have no idea I'm just picking randomly what sounded cool...no idea if it even works well or compliments the rest of my list >_<


The Heavy Support options are most people's favourite - I like to chop and change the HS slots depending on either my mood or my opponent.



syypher said:


> 5) Is this list that I started and getting help to compile going to be fairly competitive? A majority of the lists I see out there are infantry heavy for IG. As I said earlier I really don't want to do the horde like model construction again since I got burned out doing it for my Nids army...


Mechanised Veteran 'spam' is considered heavily competitive, however even the most competitive list played by a bad player will be bad. Get practising.



syypher said:


> 6) One last little question...I don't see any psychic defense stuff anywhere in the Codex. Thought Psyker Battle Squads or that Psyker HQ would do something but no Psychic hoods or anything anywhere. Does IG have no psychic defense?


No Psychic defense. Can't have everything (although we come very close)

Hope that helps


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

Wow thanks for all the incredible feedback! This really helps a lot guys!

Now I understand a little more of how to play the army I'm trying to put together and what I'm lacking in.

Two more questions, hopefully the last 


1) This is going to be a two part question since it has to do with the same Chimera/MeltaVet/Heavy Slot linking with each other synergistically. (is that a word..?)

a- Do I have enough anti-av for 1,500-1,750 games with all the Chimera/MeltaVets and 1-2 Vendettas? I'm assuming I am going to without a doubt have enough anti-AV but just wondering what you fellow guard think.

b- Since I more than likely do have enough anti-AV what is the BEST anti-infantry I can get in my heavy slots? I'm thinking of filling those slots with anti-infantry since I'm going to be packing a lot of melta/lascannons already. (at least 9 Melta/3 las)


2) Any tips on using the Chimera? Is it normally sit back and fire till you need to use the melta? or are they more than not used to rush into AV13/14 vehicles or monstrous creatures early on and blast away? Any general advice or tips on Chimeras would be great 



Thanks again for all your help so far guys.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

> Two more questions, hopefully the last


Bishop5 answered your other Q's so I won't repeat.



> a- Do I have enough anti-av for 1,500-1,750 games with all the Chimera/MeltaVets and 1-2 Vendettas? I'm assuming I am going to without a doubt have enough anti-AV but just wondering what you fellow guard think.


Quite likely you will although I don't do all Vets anymore and always include combined Infantry to hold my DZ and protect Artillery. Also Artillery like the Manticore is great at both anti-tank and anti-infantry/hoards. Hydras are great for taking out enemy transports while also been great against heavy Infantry. Medusas with BB's offer the longest ranged 2D6 anti-tank Guard can get.



> b- Since I more than likely do have enough anti-AV what is the BEST anti-infantry I can get in my heavy slots? I'm thinking of filling those slots with anti-infantry since I'm going to be packing a lot of melta/lascannons already. (at least 9 Melta/3 las)


The Manticore (see above), and the Basilisk are both 'generalists', with the Bassie been very good at anti-MEQ (AP3) but the Manticore is the most versatile of the 2.

The Collossus is AP3 and ignores Cover Saves...great if you face a lot of MEQ.

The Medusa can fire an Ordnance S10 blast is is devastating against anything, but been direct fire only has it's pitfalls.

The reliable LRBT is still a great choice as is the Demolisher and Executioner...top 3 Russes picked really. Stay away from the Punisher...bad ju-ju.

In the washup..Artillery is for alpha-strike, wipe out as much as possible in the first few turns, and then if it dies then it's still done its job. Russes are more for doing some damage consistently over the game.

2) Any tips on using the Chimera? Is it normally sit back and fire till you need to use the melta? or are they more than not used to rush into AV13/14 vehicles or monstrous creatures early on and blast away? Any general advice or tips on Chimeras would be great 

MeltaVets are for mobile drive-by shooting..their effective range is only 6" really so they aren't any good as static firebases. ChiMeltaVets are quasi-suicidal units so don't expect them to last long...this is one of the reasons I now always take a Platoon or 2.

PlasmaVets are similar but because of the extra range over the Melta they can be a firebase-type unit, but I only do that in a pinch...keep them moving is generally more effective.

I can go into more detail if you want.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

syypher said:


> a- Do I have enough anti-av for 1,500-1,750 games with all the Chimera/MeltaVets and 1-2 Vendettas? I'm assuming I am going to without a doubt have enough anti-AV but just wondering what you fellow guard think.


Yeah, that should be enough but you can never have too much... especially when the AT weapons also do a damn good job of killing infantry. See answer to b-



syypher said:


> b- Since I more than likely do have enough anti-AV what is the BEST anti-infantry I can get in my heavy slots? I'm thinking of filling those slots with anti-infantry since I'm going to be packing a lot of melta/lascannons already. (at least 9 Melta/3 las)


Manticore with hull heavy flamer is extremely good, and doubles as effective AT. Can fire directly to negate minimum range of weapon.

Leman Russ Battle Tank, either heavy flamer or lascannon. S8 AP3 large blast with massive range, mounted on a tough platform and all for a very modest points cost. Good for killing Marines. Doubles as AT.

Executioner for really heavy infantry, probably overkill against guard/orks. Can also kill light tanks.

Griffons - take a pair as they're cheap enough. Very reliable for killing infantry of all kind thanks to S6 and a re-roll on the scatter dice. OK anti-tank (S6 2D6 pick the highest vs side armour). 

They are my personal favourites, and can all kill units other than infantry if there are no infantry to shoot.



syypher said:


> 2) Any tips on using the Chimera? Is it normally sit back and fire till you need to use the melta? or are they more than not used to rush into AV13/14 vehicles or monstrous creatures early on and blast away? Any general advice or tips on Chimeras would be great


Depends on the mission, terrain, etc.

One of the most important things to do is to deploy properly - don't end up getting in your own way.

As you're playing mechanised, first remove the enemy mobility by focusing fire on their transports. If you have objectives to take, get moving early as meltaguns only have a 12" range. 

When your veterans get out of their transports they probably won't last very long.


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

HOBO said:


> I can go into more detail if you want.


@Hobo: I would love for you to go into more detail. Thanks for the info provided so far! I'm planning to definitely make use of it and any other info you provide as far as Chimera strategies. I'm absorbing like a sponge right now! 


@Bishop: Thanks for more info. 


Should I run 2x Manticores + LRBT or just 1 Manticore? What do you guys think?

Edit: What HQ choice and how is it equipped normally? I'm thinking CCS but what loadout do most people use in a Mech Vet list? More Meltas??


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

He...I really meant I could comment further about everyting not just Chimeras. Just keep the Q's coming and you'll get plenty of help.



> Edit: What HQ choice and how is it equipped normally? I'm thinking CCS but what loadout do most people use in a Mech Vet list? More Meltas??


In a Mech list CCS's are used mainly as a carrier for more SW's...4 Melta or Plasma is the usual build, depending on your target. Orders are less important because the receiving units will usually be in a chimera anyway, usually Vets with Melta/Plasma. To receive said Orders the Vets need to disembark which isn't ideal. That said, if the target definitely needs to be destroyed/die then BID (bring it down) is very effective..usually though the Vet squad will be dead next turn simply because it disembarked to receive the Order.

I like having both Plasma and Melta in any list...different targets/ranges etc that grants you more tactical flexibility. If worried about Gets hot some take a Medic or Carapace Armour to help mitigate the damage, while some just roll with the punches.

Advisors are only of use if you have a need for them -
- Astropath if you have Reserves/Outflankers in your list.
- Officer of the Fleet if you want to mess with any enemy Reserves/Outflankers.
- MoO is more for a static CCS...can be used in a Chimera but I have plenty of Blast weaponry elsewhere in my lists so never bother with him.
- Bodyguards I think are a waste of points.

Characters I think fit more into an Infantry-heavy list or at least a hybrid list that has a decent amount of Infantry in it. 

Wargear is best kept to a minimum until you have the basics covered..for me this means every unit has its full deck of SW's and my vehicles are built to its most efficient build - then I start to spend points on misc stuff.


So in a full Mech list I think a 4 SW CCS is the best build overall.


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

Thanks Hobo! I really appreciate all this help! You unleashed the gates of questions!  Here goes a few more 

I'm planning to run my CSS then with 4 Plasmaguns. All my Chimeras will have Heavy Flamer Hull and Multi-laser Turrets. I'll have 2x Vendettas, 2x Manticores, 1x LRBT. The rest of my points will be filled up with as many Chimeras as I can fit. What do you think of that? 

Things that I'm concerned about...

1) Should I have that many Chimeras spammed about?
2) So far I'm leaving my LRBT and 2x Manticores just stock. (Manticores getting Flamers but thats Free..) Is that a good decision and what most people do for those models?
3) Should I have 2x Manticores or diversify and get 2-3 Basilisks or Hydras? 
4a) Knowing the rest of my list now since you and everyone here have helped me so well, if I take 1x LRBT and 1x Manticore, what would you suggest I take to help me have a more well balanced army? I want either some Hydras, one of the Ordnance Battery vehicles or another LRBT. Which would you put in my list and why? 
4b) If you picked another LR which variant would you run? Another LRBT and squad them together?
4c) Do people normally take sponsoons on the LRs? Thinking of taking Plasma Cannon sponsoons. Good idea?
5) Regarding #4...I like the idea of 2x Manticores but I also like diversity. Or am I wrong on this regard since the Manticore is just that good at both anti vehicle and infantry? Seems like the superior choice out of everything...except it's high point cost. 
6) Here's my makeshift list below. Interested in buying the stuff probably in a week or two... What would you do to fill up the remaining 100 points? Upgrade to 1,750? I'm at 1,400 pts on the dot right now...thoughts on the list?

Company Cmd Sqd	5
Plasma Guns	4
Transport: Chimera	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Leman Russ Battle Tank	1
Camo Netting	1

Manticore	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Manticore	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Vendetta Gunship	1
Heavy Bolter Sponsons	1

Vendetta Gunship	1
Heavy Bolter Sponsons	1

Veteran Squad	10
Meltagun	3
Transport: Chimera	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Veteran Squad	10
Meltagun	3
Transport: Chimera	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Veteran Squad	10
Meltagun	3
Transport: Chimera	1
Heavy Flamer	1



I know it's a huge amount of questions but you said to keep them coming  hehe


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## thisisaguard111 (Oct 20, 2010)

Also for your type of army vendettas aren't absolutely necessary, I strongly recommend magnetizing the weapons.
And if you get another LR, get either a demolisher of executioner. MM sponsons on the demolisher work well and PC sponsons on the executioner.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

> I'm planning to run my CSS then with 4 Plasmaguns. All my Chimeras will have Heavy Flamer Hull and Multi-laser Turrets. I'll have 2x Vendettas, 2x Manticores, 1x LRBT. The rest of my points will be filled up with as many Chimeras as I can fit. What do you think of that?


The Chimera build you have is the most efficient one, ML can take on transports plus can has a decent rof, while the HF is good against a large variety of targets. If you ever make any unit act as a firebase (say a PlasmaVet unit) Hull HB's are good also, as is a Heavy Stubber...if you have points spare.



> 1) Should I have that many Chimeras spammed about?


How many is too many...the only drama you might have is clogging up your movement lanes. I've fielded lists with 6 Vet Squads and 2 CCS's, plus a PCS and a PBS..all in Chimeras - it's not uncommon.



> 2) So far I'm leaving my LRBT and 2x Manticores just stock. (Manticores getting Flamers but thats Free..) Is that a good decision and what most people do for those models?


I never give my Artillery anything but a HUll HF, although a Hydra also suits a HB. Reason been I usually get more wounds from a template than a HB most games so why bother, plus the HF helps once the enemy gets too close. 



> 3) Should I have 2x Manticores or diversify and get 2-3 Basilisks or Hydras?


I like variety and all the Artillery has a place and choosing one over another won't necessarily diminish a list's efficiency...sure some are niche (Collossus = anti-MEQ) but you just choose the one that fits best on the day.

That said, the Manticore is numero uno..2 is fine because it gives a great chance of rolling a high number of missiles. I've made lists with 3 of them also, but my main choices for an all-comers list is Manticore, 2 Hydras squadroned, and an Executioner...I face a lot of MEQ. The Manticore is only AP4 but the D3 shots makes up for that inadequacy against MEQ most times.

Bassies are ok also...you could take 2 seperately and stick one in each corner...cover the entire board.

Like I said though, I like all the Artillery so don't limit myself to just 2/3 choices.



> 4a) Knowing the rest of my list now since you and everyone here have helped me so well, if I take 1x LRBT and 1x Manticore, what would you suggest I take to help me have a more well balanced army? I want either some Hydras, one of the Ordnance Battery vehicles or another LRBT. Which would you put in my list and why?


See above, but...Manticore is both good at anti-tank, anti-hoard, anti - MC, LRBT is anti-infantry with some anti-light tank capability. I use my Hydras to take out Transports which leaves the Manticore and MeltaVets free for the higher AV hunting. Your list below with 2 Manticores is fine.



> 4b) If you picked another LR which variant would you run? Another LRBT and squad them together?


Top 3 are Executioner, Demolisher and LRBT, 4th would be the Exterminator.

My Executioner is fully decked with Hull Lascannon and Sponson Plasma...expensive but all AP2 weaponry and is far and away my no.1 killer.
I have found that a sponsonless one is nowhere near as efficient, mainly because the extra two 3" blasts can catch that sgt with a PF and the HW Marine...the 40 pts spent is well worth it.

The Demolisher I either run decked out like the Executioner (and for similar reasons) or with just a Hull HF and keep it mobile. Sponson MM's are also good...area denial on a flank makes the enemy think twice about taking that route.

LRBT is either with just a hull weapon - HF, HB or Lascannon..they all have their usefulness, or decked out with Sponson HB's for maximum dakka. I usually tag these onto the flank of my Infantry Squads to increase the amount of firepower going into the enemy. You can also make a pseudo Executioner by giving it Plasma Sponsons..cheaper as well.

Squadroning... I only squadron the cheap stuff like Hydras, Griffons, and naked LRBT's, well until high points games (2500+), then it doesn't matter so much. Executioners I would never squadron though because I only field the expensively decked out ones, same with Demolishers.




> 4c) Do people normally take sponsoons on the LRs? Thinking of taking Plasma Cannon sponsoons. Good idea?


Basically answered this above except to say that you have to decide whether or not you want to stay mobile with them or use as a static firebase. Mobile ones are harder to take down in assault and let you respond to threats quicker, but static ones pour out a lot more firepower.

As far as I'm concerned both types have their place and limiting yourself to only 1 type is handicapping your versatility (options).





> 5) Regarding #4...I like the idea of 2x Manticores but I also like diversity. Or am I wrong on this regard since the Manticore is just that good at both anti vehicle and infantry? Seems like the superior choice out of everything...except it's high point cost.


Answered already, but yea I love diversity to.



> 6) Here's my makeshift list below. Interested in buying the stuff probably in a week or two... What would you do to fill up the remaining 100 points? Upgrade to 1,750? I'm at 1,400 pts on the dot right now...thoughts on the list?
> 
> Company Cmd Sqd	5
> Plasma Guns	4
> ...


For the 100 pts 2 Sentinels would be good...I wouldn't beef up any of the current units anymore, except to say have you looked at the Advisors yet...depending on your opponent's lists an OoTF might come in handy for example.

I don't bother with Wargear or Doctrines much at all..points are usually better spent elsewhere.

For 1750 definitely more Troop slots...as good as ChiMeltaVets are they are quasi-suicidal units that often die, simply because they need to get close to be effective, which means they're also in range of the enemy's guns. Me, I would likely have 5 Troop units for 1750, or 4 and a Combined Platoon.

Psyker Battle Squads are also very good...their Blast (Soulstorm) is good and Weaken Resolve is very effective. They benefit from a Chimera so that's one more to add to the enemy's target priority checks.

Also, you might be going the Vet only route (I don't) but maybe down the track consider some Infantry...protect your fragile Artillery, add numbers, guard your DZ - lots of positive reasons to take some.

Anyway, hope that helped a bit...I'm outta here, I now have RSI:grin:


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

ROFL HOBO! You have RSI 

Thanks so much for your help! I've decided to run 2x Manticore's since they seem like the best overall choice for the people I play against. Only 3x MEQs that play here at my LGS. (3 if you include me) Everyone else is Eldar, DE, Nids, Orcs, Necrons, IG, Grey Knights etc.

I'll add 2x armoured Sentinels to my list for little gun platforms for a little more firepower and to help fill up my points.

Thanks again for all your help. I'll update this for sure when I get more questions


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Also, don't take the camo netting on the Leman Russ - a hideous waste of points. You only get the benefit if you're stationary and you've got no sponsons so should always be moving.

Swap camo netting for some more weapons - lascannon on the hull and put more points into your CCS/Vets


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

Thanks for everyones help here! I really appreciate it! Here is a new question 


How is it best to field your Vendettas? Do you guys usually put stuff in them? If so what? More MeltaVets? Or Flamer Vets? I have seen quite a few people do the Flamer Route. What is y'alls opinion and advice on this?

Thanks!


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Vendettas are fine as is, but IF you have points spare then the HB's are well worth the points...gives the Gunship some anti-infantry punch once you're out of vehicles to shoot at.

I do transport Units in them, but I use my Vendettas primarily as Gunships (Valkyries make better transports..they have the weaponry that will clear a landing zone of enemy infantry for a start).
My Gunships make use of it's long range and snipe at enemy vehicles/MC etc for a few turns, so acting as fire support for the main part of my force that is moving up the board. 
Then once my entire force has taken care of many of the threats I move the Gunships forward and drop off the Units that I have onboard that are built for objective clearing etc...Units like SWS/PCS's that have Flamers/Demo Charges/whatever.

The other way to use Vendettas is to load MeltaVets etc in them and turbo-boost up the board, drop off the Vets and also maybe get a round of shots off at some high value target. Usually though what happens is because you are then within range of the enemy's guns the Vendetta is often lost during that maneuver, so that target better be worth it. The Vets don't usually last long either.


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

HOBO said:


> Vendettas are fine as is, but IF you have points spare then the HB's are well worth the points...gives the Gunship some anti-infantry punch once you're out of vehicles to shoot at.
> 
> I do transport Units in them, but I use my Vendettas primarily as Gunships (Valkyries make better transports..they have the weaponry that will clear a landing zone of enemy infantry for a start).
> My Gunships make use of it's long range and snipe at enemy vehicles/MC etc for a few turns, so acting as fire support for the main part of my force that is moving up the board.
> ...


I like the Flamer Idea! I think I'll do the PCS or SWS and hold 3 Flamers in them. That's awesome because it's much cheaper than going another Veteran Squad just for 3 Flamers. It's going to be a suicide squad anyways so perfect!

With that being said...why do people go Melta + Veterans? Can't SWS and and PCS do the 3 Melta thing just as well, still be troops and be a bunch cheaper? Why choose Veterans over the cheaper version? I would think anything that would destroy a SWS/PCS squad in CC would probably destroy a Vet squad just the same. 


What do you guys normally use for Psyker Combat Squads? I want something fairly inexpensive. I don't mind putting out a few bucks but GW's $20 for 3 models is just too much since I want to run a 10 man PCS...


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

> I like the Flamer Idea! I think I'll do the PCS or SWS and hold 3 Flamers in them. That's awesome because it's much cheaper than going another Veteran Squad just for 3 Flamers. It's going to be a suicide squad anyways so perfect!


Well I would never give Vets Flamers as it makes no use of their BS4...Melta/Plasma only.




> With that being said...why do people go Melta + Veterans? Can't SWS and and PCS do the 3 Melta thing just as well, still be troops and be a bunch cheaper? Why choose Veterans over the cheaper version? I would think anything that would destroy a SWS/PCS squad in CC would probably destroy a Vet squad just the same.


Well because they're BS4, are larger in number, can make use of BID to t/l that Melta....that will make a tank go away the vast majority of times. The whole idea behind the first turn maneuver with the Vendetta and transported unit is to get in an Alpha-strike, which can pay off big time if it works out. Still, I prefer to use Chimeras to transport my MeltaVets..5 firepoints is great.



> What do you guys normally use for Psyker Combat Squads? I want something fairly inexpensive. I don't mind putting out a few bucks but GW's $20 for 3 models is just too much since I want to run a 10 man PCS


I use 3 of the GW Psykers and the Primaris model as my Overseer. Then I used Empire Flagellents to make the other 6. I used other bits and pieces to make their Staffs..also from the Flagellent Box I think - turned out well.


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## jc40kba (Sep 27, 2010)

very similar to my mates IG list very effective if used properly he wiped out my other mates daemons by turn 5 lol chimeras prob one of best transports in the game load them out to suit whatevers inside them. p.s have u tried using marbo hes worth buying for the fun of what he does.


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

no I have yet to try out Marbo.


As for the PCS, SWS and Vet Squad I am still having a hard time choosing Vet's over PCS or SWS. The cost is double or more for a Vet squad for a few more bodies and BS4. BIT w/ BS3 will still usually kill as much as a BIT w/ BS4. I just see a lot of points being saved that you can almost fit in another Chimera or something or other.

Am I way off on this or is the standard just Vets + Melta + Chim and it's the best combo and I should just go with that?


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

I have no idea what a BIT is, but Mech Vets is one of the main reasons why IG is a top tier list...reason been that it's good. 3 SW's (usually MG's or PG's) shooting from a Chimera at BS4 is well worth the extra points.

That said, I haven't played all-Vet lists for probably 9 months or more, and I'm now taking a mix of Vets and Platoons as my Troops. Also, don't forget that you can't just take a PCS, it must be accompanied with 2 Infantry Squads minimum, and only then can you also take SWS/HWS.

I take 2 PCS's and put them in Chimeras...usually with 4 Flamers or 4 MG's, and I take 2 SWS's and load them in my Vendettas. My Infantry Squads are usually combined and include a Commissar so I have a hard-to-shift unit protecting my DZ/Artillery.

You can always put your Infantry Squads in Chimeras as well along with your PCS, but then you're really getting your main firepower from the actual Chimeras and not the units inside them. Lists like this tend to win by overloading the enemy's anti-tank capabilities, so it's a similar concept to an Infantry Hoard, inthat it wins by choking the enemy with so many bodies they can't kill them all...win by attrition.

Nothing wrong with any of these approaches to building a list...they all end up been an efficient list.

As far as saving points in an IG list...spend the bare minimum of points on extra Wargear/upgrades - Bodies/Vehicles/Weapons first, then see what points are left.

That's a basic rundown anyway...why don't you post some lists so people can give you some focussed advice.


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

HOBO said:


> I have no idea what a BIT is, but Mech Vets is one of the main reasons why IG is a top tier list...reason been that it's good. 3 SW's (usually MG's or PG's) shooting from a Chimera at BS4 is well worth the extra points.
> 
> That said, I haven't played all-Vet lists for probably 9 months or more, and I'm now taking a mix of Vets and Platoons as my Troops. Also, don't forget that you can't just take a PCS, it must be accompanied with 2 Infantry Squads minimum, and only then can you also take SWS/HWS.
> 
> ...


Great idea! Here's my list. It's just 1500 points total because I'm newly starting but any comments or fixes would be great. Should the Vets be in the Vendettas or a Chimera? What do you think of the Psyker Battle Squad? Don't like that they can't do any psychic defense >_<

(I own another Sentinel and another Vendetta Gunship but I can buy whatever if itll make the list better)


Company Cmd Sqd	5
Plasma Guns	4
Transport: Chimera	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Psyker Battle Squad	10
Transport: Chimera	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Veteran Squad	10
Meltagun	3
Transport: Chimera	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Veteran Squad	10
Meltagun	3
Transport: Chimera	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Veteran Squad	10
Meltagun	3
Transport: Chimera	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Vendetta Gunship	1
Heavy Bolter Sponsons	1

Armored Sentinel	1

Leman Russ Battle Tank	1
Plasma Canons	1

Manticore	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Manticore	1
Heavy Flamer	1
-------------------------

Actually, going with your advice of bodies and tanks first before even upgrading wargear all over the place I came up with this new list...I think I like it better. Any advice or adjustments to make it better for all-comers @ 1500 pts?

Company Cmd Sqd	5
Plasma Guns	3
Transport: Chimera	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Veteran Squad	10
Meltagun	3
Vendetta Gunship	1

Veteran Squad	10
Meltagun	3
Vendetta Gunship	1

Veteran Squad	10
Meltagun	3
Transport: Chimera	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Veteran Squad	10
Meltagun	3
Transport: Chimera	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Armored Sentinel	2

Leman Russ Battle Tank	1

Manticore	1
Heavy Flamer	1

Manticore	1
Heavy Flamer	1


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Well you're going the all-vet route which is fine, and there's nothing wrong with either list...each unit build on its own is very good. There are personal preference differences to what I'd do but that's because it's your list.

Your Q's

Vets in Chimeras or Vendettas?...I gave my views in an above post, but I prefer them in Chimeras - firepoints means they don't need to dismount to fire, plus you're not putting the Gunship in harm's way from the get-go.

PBS's?...they have a 36" range and Psychic Hoods are 24" so they can opearte within that 12" band. Plus you could just kill the enemy's own anti-psychic models.


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## syypher (Aug 11, 2010)

I'm debating if I want to use Psyker Battle Squads or just put another Melta Vet squad. 

At my LGS there is a fair balance of people who run with mech and without. Theres a necron player that uses 2-3 Monoliths every game, another IG player that runs 1-2 Leman Russ and not really any Land Raiders. But there is one guy we play with a bunch who always runs 2-3 battle wagons...so that's a lot of AV14 all across the people we play with. Other than that theres the basic SW list with TWC+LFs+Rhinos, a vanilla SM Biker Army with lots of Melta, Orc speed freak army, a BA storm raven + Dred spam army, and Grey Knights. 

With that being said theres a fair balance of Mech/ Horde or Infantry based armies so that's why I want to make a list be balanced an very well rounded. I know I want range capabilities to take out AV14 because as I mentioned above there is quite a bit of that flying around. That's why I like Vendettas a lot and Melta Vets. 

But since Chimeras aren't really anti-infantry very much till their close up with their flamers I think I lack in that dept. So I fill up on 2 Manticores + Leman Russ Battle Tank or may go 2 LRBT + 1 Manticore...LRBT will be great anti-MEQ but also great anti-tank because it's Ordnance and I get 2d6 for armor pen so it can serve as anti-AV14 as well. 

I don't really see how I can deal with Terminators very well though. Since they have a 2+ save I won't really be hurting them very much with a lot of my stuff...Sure insta pop with LRBT or Manticore but they usually only have 1W. How about TWC? They have multi-wounds I think and different wargear shenanigans...How would I be able to deal with that? Psyker Battle Squad can but that's if I roll a 1 or 2 for their AP ability and I don't like taking things to "chance." Las Cannons are AP2 but there isn't enough shots to truly drown then in dice to neutralize TWC+Lords since they also run with SS's and have a 3++. Las Cannons don't even insta pop them since in their FAQ they are solid T5 not T4(5). This seems like a problem >_>

Any advice or tips on making my list better all rounder now that you know more how my LGS is like? Sorry I didn't bring up these details earlier I didn't think about it...Also, I have no problems whatsoever with suggestions of models that GW doesn't make yet. I actually really like having unique models from FW or customizing models myself 

Thanks for your continued help HOBO. It's really nice having a veteran IG player helping me along while I learn.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Oh I like Vendettas and MeltaVets, just not sticking them inside 

Basically people who spam MeltaVets use them as a counter against almost every target, but I've never done that myself, and I play a hybrid list now anyway...Infantry, ChimeraVets, Vendettas, Artillery and Russes.

Basically I take whatever weapons fulfil the following firepower roles -
AI/Hoards 
anti-MEQ anti-TEQ
anti-transport
anti-AV12
anti-AV13
anti-AV14
anti-MC
and the more overlap of weapons that are efficient in multiple roles the better.

Necrons - just ignore the Liths and go for phase out but S10 works. Generally though, just take multiples of S8/10 Blasts, AC/ML's and Melta/Plasma.

IG - Mech v Mech is good...AC/ML to take out transports/Vendettas, anti-infantry weapons to kill our squishy troops (the range of weapons that can do that is huge), and Melta/S10/Lascannons/Ordnance against LR's.

Orks - Manticores/Vendettas/Hydras/PBS/ChimeraVets, etc..basically high rof and high strength weapons can handle Mech/foot Orks.

Anti-TDA - I mainly use Plasma weaponry..PG Vets/Executioners/Demolishers/Ordnance (AP2/S18-10). Against TWC just make them a priority because even multiple balasts won't cover many models.


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