# 2nd Round of Ard Boyz Report



## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

The second round of Ard Boyz was significantly different than the first, but not so much in what armies were being played, but in the proportions they were played.

First, there were no cannons anywhere. None. No Dwarf or Empire players at all, and in the armies that could take war machines, virtually none were taken. 

Second, despite the Brets doing fairly well (considering the age of their army book) last year, none were present at the second round. In fact, there was very little cavalry overall.

Third, no Teclis anywhere. High elves were ignored in favor of their dark brethren.

Fourth, over a third of the players there were playing the same list (more on this in a second).

...

Overall, there were only 4 main strategies used at the 'uber-competitive' level:

1. Guard a powerful wizard with lots of expendable troops. Popular with Skaven and Lizardmen armies. 

2. Spam monsters. Dark Elf Hydras, Abominations, and Greater Daemons were a common sight.

3. Huge, nearly invincible units that take up half the points in the list. Examples include my own unit of 42 Ogres, another player's unit of 40 Chaos Daemon Flesh Hounds, giant units of Dark Elf Witch Elves, and the most overkill of them all: 100 Chaos Warriors w/Mark of Tzeentch and shields. The rest of that army was merely characters, and 2 war shrines. He didn't win though, because...

4. All the top players used Chaos Daemons, with the following list: 

Kairos Fateweaver
the Masque
Herald of Tzeentch with the banner of -2 LD
Herald of Khorne
Skulltaker (optional, not everyone used him)

one large unit of Bloodletters
one unit of Pink Horrors

one unit of Flesh Hounds (optional, not everyone used them)

As many Flamers as humanly possible.


About 5-6 players were running this exact same list, and they beat everyone. The flamers fired away, the Bloodletters held the enemy off, the Masque made sure that the Bloodletters won (by manipulating the enemy's LD and movement), and Kairos flew around to drop purple sun/pit of shades/dwellers below on the enemy wherever needed.

Nothing even came close to beating it, besides each other.

Before you lose all hope though, keep in mind that this is at the highest point level, and Kairos, a key component of this strategy, can only be used in games of 2500 points or more.


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

Sounds fun! Shame builds are made to win rather than have fun. I'd rather make a crazy list and have fun than force myself to take certain stuff to have a chance of winning. But I guess it's a comp and people want to win.

Anyways, you got any pictures? I'd love to see the 100 Chaos Warriors (I love the figures, as well as The Chosen) all lined up! I love making crazy formations, in fact, I have 18 Kroxigors (4 old, 14 new unmade) planned formation. Since they are Monstrous Infantry, they get to fight in 3 ranks AND use all their attacks (up to 3) so 18 Krox dish out 54 attacks, at Strength 6 (Base 4+2 from GW) which would smash through a lot, coupled with Thunderstomp from the front row. Throw in Beast of Horros +3A/+3S buff, and that's another 54 attacks at Strength 9... so 72 attacks (Only the front rank get to use the 6 attacks), at Strength 9... I don't think much will survive that...

Sorry... went off on a tangent.


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## Hurricane (Feb 27, 2010)

I understand that tournaments are for competitive play, but the exact same build taking all the top spots is absolutely ridiculous! I don't care what list people take to tournaments, hell make it as "cheesy" as you like, but I would at least like to see some variation


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Beast of Horros has no effect on units, only a single model, Troublehalf. I can now see where people are saying Daemons rape.

Problem is - they've stated it themselves, there are troublesome parts of the list.

No Teclis World Dragon Banner PG units? Dwellers has no effect. In return, Teclis uses Shadow, Pendulums Fateweaver, then debuffs the Bloodletters - reduce WS, S and Toughness (So Rerolls to hit, 2+ to wound with Phoenix Guard), Flying Suicide Hero (Caradryan/Tricksters Shard Armour of Caledor Vambraces Great Weapon Prince) goes for the Masque, BSB or Fateweaver. Just uses Enhanced Pit of Shades against the Pink Horrors and Flamers, especially after they've been hit by a Debuff Initiative.

No Cannons? Sounds foolish. The Metagame has evolved, so evolve your armies. If in doubt, bring 6 fucking cannons. They'll bring down more units than you can hope. Abombs? 3 Cannons and ones dead. Greater Daemons? 6 Cannons, ones dead. Cannon Snipe the BSB.

100 Chaos Warriors - pretty poor. Losing 1 wound is losing a model who can't attack back. Large blocking units work best with Monstrous Infantry - due to the Stomp. Should have looked at taking a Valkia/Galrauch List. I've yet to see Fateweaver beat Galrauch one on one. 2D6 Toughness Tests or Die is fairly nice way to look at it.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I would have though some people would have been taking the old 7th ed counter to fateweaver: a KoS with siren to force Kairos into a fight he cannot win... sure KoS aren't as good as they were, but they still rape.

I would love to see more super huge units of "you can't kill this many" around...just to see the guys face if they suddenly all die in a catastrophic way. 1 lucky gateway, or a flank/rear charge combined with doom and darkness (or just immense bad luck). If there is a chance of this happening in a game you're playing please have a camera ready to snapshot the guy's face 

Amoungst all the other surprises (and there were loads- I don't rate daemons, and think artillery is beyond impressive) was that those daemons lists didn't take the blue scribes (at least not that we've heard). 80ish points for a few extra power dice a turn and the chance for a random spell each turn on a model that can either be bunkered in with horrors (no idea why they let him join units) or sent off as a war machine hunter is pretty shiny.


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## ultor (Dec 6, 2010)

Kairos Fateweaver is no different than a steam tank when it comes how to deal with. 
Put a pit of shades or purple sun on him and watch him suffer with his I of 1.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

Yeah, the daemons players basically dueled it out with magic to see 'who can kill Kairos first'. One guy used a Keeper of Secrets, but since Kairos can fly, the KoS couldn't catch him, and it more or less just put Kairos on the defensive. 

I found out that at another Ard Boyz 2nd round event there were 5 Teclis armies, so it varies from place to place what's played. 

The general consensus among the 'competitive' players at these events is that these are the tiers:

Top Tier: Chaos Daemons

Upper Tier: High Elves, Dark Elves, Skaven, Lizardmen, Chaos Warriors

Mid Tier: Orcs & Goblins, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts, Dwarves, Empire, Bretonnians

Low Tier: Beastmen, Ogre Kingdoms, Wood Elves


They're not necessarily right, but that's what they seem to feel, and the armies they choose to play reflects it.


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

Ah... Horros only affects one. OK... still, would work on my Oldblood rank & file chewer.

Perhaps you could do a game based on random lists. Say you make up a group of units... give them a number and roll a dice, you end up picking up units without knowing what you are going to get. So you could end doing a fight with a random list, which will require a bit more skill to win, rather than AwesomeWin list.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

You can't set a points value for that though.

Either you have every unit cost 200pts (in which case units like Slaves etc will trounce Chaos Warriors - 100 versus 10?), or every unit costs 500pts (in which case it evens up for the Chaos Warriors, where 20 Chaos Warriors can chew through pretty much anything, while the Slaves get no benefit).

But no, that takes away everything that Warhammer is about.

Hows about this for shiggles?

They should do like the LotR tournaments of old, you play 2 games, one as your own army, and one as your opponents (instead of good/evil etc). You can get a maximum of 2points for each pair of games.

If you win with your own army, you get +1pt.
You get nothing for a draw or a loss with your own army.
If you get a win with your opponents, as well as winning or drawing with your own, you get +1pt
If you get a win with your opponents, but lost with your own, you get +2pts

That will stop people bring "uberpowerful" win everything lists, as that would mean that when they change round, and lose, they've just sacrificed a point.

Maybe not your standard tournaments, but ArdBoyz is meant to be your hardest tournament, where people take their strongest lists and bring their A game. It would balance the lists up.

Someone brings an intentionally "win all", and they go up against an intentionally "lose all" list. That means when the change over occurs, the "win all list" has 1pt, while the "loser" list has 2.

But what happens when the "lose all" lists all go through to the final? A slug fest of shit? Eventually, the tournament will use some more varied, mediocre lists, rather than max/minning.


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