# Garviel Loken Thoughts(some spoilers)



## Garviel loken. (Jun 8, 2014)

So im just curious to see what everyone thinks of loken. As you can see by my name i love loken. Its so refreshing to see an astartes who somewhat cares for the people he fights for. From the very first line in horus rising i have been loyal to loken. 

Now, i understand some people were not to fond on loken surviving istvaan(to each there own), but i really like this decision because, to me, loken captures every part of the luna wolves, every part of what it means to be a space marine, and, i feel, it all has to end with loken. What i mean is, the story shoud come full circle. Where loken started the series off, he should also end it.

I also have one juicy prediction, tho i could be completly wrong. I feel loken will play a major part in Aximands death. It could be loken defeating him in combat during the seige, but i think......loken will be dueling abaddon on the VS during the seige, Aximand will finally see what has become of his legion, turn loyal once more,charge abaddon, then get crushed to a pulp. Just a threory. 

So, what do you guys think of Garviel Loken?


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## Nacho libre (Feb 23, 2013)

Probably one of the characters that I like the most in the HH series, second to Demeter of course.


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## theurge33 (Apr 4, 2012)

Nacho libre said:


> Probably one of the characters that I like the most in the HH series, second to Demeter of course.


Demeter might be my favorite, if not, he always makes my top three! I think he gets forgotten by most due to only being in one book.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I believe we see that beauty in Loken's character much predominately before Istvaan. I think his revival butcher's and perverse what he stands for. That was the most beautiful ending I think any hero could have ever gotten. Granted, I think another author would have highlighted it more, however, that almost godlike image about what the astartes are to humanity from _Horus Rising_ vanishes. His death really showed that part of the Imperium that is devoted to loyalty and the Imperium. Even in the face of sure defeat and actual defeat, it gave the character something that was really taken away from him with his revival. 

The most awesome characters die man, its how it is. I just wonder how people would feel if the characters from the Night Lords trilogy came back to life, simply because someone thought it would make Abaddon's Great Crusade a lot more interesting. Or worse... Horus is back to life... because he is what really makes the Chaos Legions what they are. 

So I mean, not a big fan of Loken coming back to life. Granted the ending was left to interpretation, but I think thats Ben Counter's bad writing trying to cram in.


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## Garviel loken. (Jun 8, 2014)

ckcrawford said:


> I believe we see that beauty in Loken's character much predominately before Istvaan. I think his revival butcher's and perverse what he stands for. That was the most beautiful ending I think any hero could have ever gotten. Granted, I think another author would have highlighted it more, however, that almost godlike image about what the astartes are to humanity from _Horus Rising_ vanishes. His death really showed that part of the Imperium that is devoted to loyalty and the Imperium. Even in the face of sure defeat and actual defeat, it gave the character something that was really taken away from him with his revival.
> 
> The most awesome characters die man, its how it is. I just wonder how people would feel if the characters from the Night Lords trilogy came back to life, simply because someone thought it would make Abaddon's Great Crusade a lot more interesting. Or worse... Horus is back to life... because he is what really makes the Chaos Legions what they are.
> 
> So I mean, not a big fan of Loken coming back to life. Granted the ending was left to interpretation, but I think thats Ben Counter's bad writing trying to cram in.


I totally agree that a dead character should stay dead....except loken. To me it shows that loyalty and "goodness" won't be so easily extinguished. That the good guys won't go down so easy.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

ckcrawford said:


> I think his revival butcher's and perverse what he stands for.


This. It has made a mockery of what he stood for, a man who fought against what he believed was wrong, even as he knew it was a hopeless fight. His revival, and then how he was portrayed in VS, is just plain ridiculous, and I really think he was only brought back to sell more audio dramas.



Garviel loken. said:


> To me it shows that loyalty and "goodness" won't be so easily extinguished. That the good guys won't go down so easy.


That's what Garro's character was all about. He was doing a pretty good job of it too, without having to bring back what was best left dead.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

I loved Loken as a character in the opening trilogy. However, I wish he had died in _Galaxy in Flames _ to represent the death of the Great Crusade (and the Luna Wolves) and to add emotional resonance to Horus's betrayal. 

My views have only been reinforced since he has returned to the series and his portrayals have been annoying and sub-par. Especially in _Vengeful Spirit_ where he and his plot bored the life out of me.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Garviel loken. said:


> it shows that loyalty and "goodness" won't be so easily extinguished. That the good guys won't go down so easy.


But that to me, goes against everything that is 40k. There is no happy ending, there's no version of this story where the good guys come out on top, to paraphrase old Tony Stark slightly. Loken, Tarvitz, Demeter and others all show that end of the golden era that was the Great Crusade, and the start of the decline into the hell that 40k now is.


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## Nacho libre (Feb 23, 2013)

Angel of Blood said:


> But that to me, goes against everything that is 40k. There is no happy ending, there's no version of this story where the good guys come out on top, to paraphrase old Tony Stark slightly. Loken, Tarvitz, Demeter and others all show that end of the golden era that was the Great Crusade, and the start of the decline into the hell that 40k now is.


An utter shite hole... much like modern day glasgow.:laugh:


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Whoa it's not THAT bad


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Angel of Blood said:


> Whoa it's not THAT bad


Glasgow is pretty bad. I think I'd rather live in the grimdark future. :grin:


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## Nacho libre (Feb 23, 2013)

Khorne's Fist said:


> Glasgow is pretty bad. I think I'd rather live in the grimdark future. :grin:


The local neds are the equivalent of orks.


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## gothik (May 29, 2010)

think i preferred it when Loken was dead, at least his death, the final battle between the mournival, Abbaddon and Aximand against Torgaddon and Loken, signified the end of the golden era for the Luna Wolves. It also set up Aximands guilt at the deaths of his brothers and the meloncoly over wether they did the right thing, and Abbaddons ruthlessness becoming more than it already was. 

When they brought him back it did defile everything that he as a character had achieved and to resurect him in such a marval comics fashion was just wrong. If i want that i'll go re read the many resurections of Jean Grey or Elektra.


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## Garviel loken. (Jun 8, 2014)

gothik said:


> think i preferred it when Loken was dead, at least his death, the final battle between the mournival, Abbaddon and Aximand against Torgaddon and Loken, signified the end of the golden era for the Luna Wolves. It also set up Aximands guilt at the deaths of his brothers and the meloncoly over wether they did the right thing, and Abbaddons ruthlessness becoming more than it already was.
> 
> When they brought him back it did defile everything that he as a character had achieved and to resurect him in such a marval comics fashion was just wrong. If i want that i'll go re read the many resurections of Jean Grey or Elektra.


Your post has one big flaw. Loken wasnt resurrected and infact was never even written as being killed. This is the first positive thing for the loyalists in the heresy.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Garviel loken. said:


> This is the first positive thing for the loyalists in the heresy.


You really think that? On what evidence? He planted a few beans and looked spiders for the first while he was back, then royally fucked up the first mission he was given. How is that a positive?


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## Garviel loken. (Jun 8, 2014)

Khorne's Fist said:


> You really think that? On what evidence? He planted a few beans and looked spiders for the first while he was back, then royally fucked up the first mission he was given. How is that a positive?


Because he SURVIVED. i suspect his part will be far greater than you could even imagine


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## Nacho libre (Feb 23, 2013)

Garviel loken. said:


> Because he SURVIVED. i suspect his part will be far greater than you could even imagine


"The ground shuddered as though in the grip of an earthquake and loken felt his prison of debris shift. Hard spikes of pain buffeted him as flames burst across the remains of the parliament building. Then darkness fell at last, and loken felt nothing else"

Pg 403-404, Galaxy in flames, Ben Counter.

I'm pretty sure that this describes lokens final moments before he dies.


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## Garviel loken. (Jun 8, 2014)

Nacho libre said:


> "The ground shuddered as though in the grip of an earthquake and loken felt his prison of debris shift. Hard spikes of pain buffeted him as flames burst across the remains of the parliament building. Then darkness fell at last, and loken felt nothing else"
> 
> Pg 403-404, Galaxy in flames, Ben Counter.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that this describes lokens final moments before he dies.


To me it looks like he just blacked out. I mean yes,the writer ment for it to seem like loken was dead, but only for shock value when we find out he is alive


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## Nacho libre (Feb 23, 2013)

Garviel loken. said:


> To me it looks like he just blacked out. I mean yes,the writer ment for it to seem like loken was dead, but only for shock value when we find out he is alive


I dunno, he would need to have amazing plot armor to survive that.


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## Garviel loken. (Jun 8, 2014)

Nacho libre said:


> I dunno, he would need to have amazing plot armor to survive that.


yes his armor was likely primarch level  I just love loken sooooo much and am so glad he is alive. Any other character at all would be a piss off tho.


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## Stephen74 (Oct 1, 2010)

I was pleased he survived and went on to be part of the grey knights. I've not listened to Grey Angel or Vengeful spirit yet so I don't know what they've done with him, but as a concept, I thought it was excellent.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Garviel loken. said:


> yes his armor was likely primarch level  I just love loken sooooo much and am so glad he is alive. Any other character at all would be a piss off tho.


I think Lux has opened a second account...


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Then report it. Do not start a witchhunt.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

scscofield said:


> Then report it. Do not start a witchhunt.


I certainly wasn't starting a witchhunt, just comparing fanboyism. This blokes spelling and diction are nowhere near Lux's. So take your red font and stick it were the sun don't shine.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Easy tiger....


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## Moriouce (Oct 20, 2009)

I think Khorne's Fist is jealouse he can't use a bloodred font.


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## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

Garviel loken. said:


> So im just curious to see what everyone thinks of loken. As you can see by my name i love loken. Its so refreshing to see an astartes who somewhat cares for the people he fights for. From the very first line in horus rising i have been loyal to loken.
> 
> Now, i understand some people were not to fond on loken surviving istvaan(to each there own), but i really like this decision because, to me, loken captures every part of the luna wolves, every part of what it means to be a space marine, and, i feel, it all has to end with loken. What i mean is, the story shoud come full circle. Where loken started the series off, he should also end it.
> 
> ...


Loken is one of the best char. He is by far the best thing Abnett has created. I think a fitting death for Loken would have been that he was the one that Horus destroys on the Vengeful Spirit and shows it to the Emperor. This perpetual nonsense looks like it will be the ending *Shrug*

As far as him coming back BL needs to be careful. Too many 'comic book deaths' will destroy the story. Once not so bad, but they did it with Cyrene. I really like Saul and Argel Tal, but they need to remain dead.

Best Loken moment... Him knocking Lucius the F**k out!


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Zooey72 said:


> Loken is one of the best char. He is by far the best thing Abnett has created. I think a fitting death for Loken would have been that he was the one that Horus destroys on the Vengeful Spirit and shows it to the Emperor. This perpetual nonsense looks like it will be the ending *Shrug*
> 
> As far as him coming back BL needs to be careful. Too many 'comic book deaths' will destroy the story. Once not so bad, but they did it with Cyrene. I really like Saul and Argel Tal, but they need to remain dead.
> 
> Best Loken moment... Him knocking Lucius the F**k out!


Hmmm.... I was trying to visualize how I'd feel about that. I remember CotE had something really cool about the Mournival and the different aspects of each of the characters tp Horus. No, I feel like Loken's death and Horus' complete corruption are symbolized well on Istvaan. 

I don't feel like it today but perhaps I can go on a search. CotE's little article was actually a really awesome depiction of what Loken was to Horus. I think it even condemned the character for failing to do his part. As far as researching certain elements of the legion, I found it to be the deepest look into the legions. If Dan really created the Mournival and those characters to reflect those aspects then he is clearly a genius.


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## Garviel loken. (Jun 8, 2014)

Zooey72 said:


> Loken is one of the best char. He is by far the best thing Abnett has created. I think a fitting death for Loken would have been that he was the one that Horus destroys on the Vengeful Spirit and shows it to the Emperor. This perpetual nonsense looks like it will be the ending *Shrug*
> 
> As far as him coming back BL needs to be careful. Too many 'comic book deaths' will destroy the story. Once not so bad, but they did it with Cyrene. I really like Saul and Argel Tal, but they need to remain dead.
> 
> Best Loken moment... Him knocking Lucius the F**k out!


While i do like oll as a perpetual, i do think horus killing loken would be sort of fitting, tho, i also think loken should witness horus die....im fine with either


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## Zooey72 (Mar 25, 2008)

ckcrawford said:


> Hmmm.... I was trying to visualize how I'd feel about that. I remember CotE had something really cool about the Mournival and the different aspects of each of the characters tp Horus. No, I feel like Loken's death and Horus' complete corruption are symbolized well on Istvaan.
> 
> I don't feel like it today but perhaps I can go on a search. CotE's little article was actually a really awesome depiction of what Loken was to Horus. I think it even condemned the character for failing to do his part. As far as researching certain elements of the legion, I found it to be the deepest look into the legions. If Dan really created the Mournival and those characters to reflect those aspects then he is clearly a genius.


I read the books, than after screening crap books me and my wife read the good ones together.

When we read "Galaxy in Flames" she cried when Loken died (and Torgadon too). At the end of the book she was convinced "Loken isn't dead" (she did give up on Torg though). As much as I liked Loken I didn't want to see him alive because I can't stand 'comic book deaths'. We argued about that for a while until it was confirmed that Loken was still alive.

I can live with one, maybe two incredible saves that make little sense. Crazy stuff does happen. But at best we are 1/3 of the way through the Heresy and I think BL has used up their quota of miraculous rebirths.

Even Torgadon is back in a way as some daemon thing. When they die, they die. If you want them to stick around than don't kill them in the first place.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

ckcrawford said:


> Hmmm.... I was trying to visualize how I'd feel about that. I remember CotE had something really cool about the Mournival and the different aspects of each of the characters tp Horus. No, I feel like Loken's death and Horus' complete corruption are symbolized well on Istvaan.
> 
> I don't feel like it today but perhaps I can go on a search. CotE's little article was actually a really awesome depiction of what Loken was to Horus. I think it even condemned the character for failing to do his part. As far as researching certain elements of the legion, I found it to be the deepest look into the legions. If Dan really created the Mournival and those characters to reflect those aspects then he is clearly a genius.


Yes, if I remember the article indirectly blamed Loken for the Horus Heresy because he failed to balance Horus, as part of the Mournival, as Sejanus had done. It was an interesting read, I'll try and find it and post it up.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Yes, if I remember the article indirectly blamed Loken for the Horus Heresy because he failed to balance Horus, as part of the Mournival, as Sejanus had done. It was an interesting read, I'll try and find it and post it up.


Lol. I attempted to. But You are heading towards 5,000 posts now. Its hard to find it.


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## Garviel loken. (Jun 8, 2014)

ckcrawford said:


> Lol. I attempted to. But You are heading towards 5,000 posts now. Its hard to find it.


I would very much like to read this....


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## Karthak (Jul 25, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Yes, if I remember the article indirectly blamed Loken for the Horus Heresy because he failed to balance Horus, as part of the Mournival, as Sejanus had done. It was an interesting read, I'll try and find it and post it up.


Now I really wonder what would have happened if Sejanus had lived.


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