# The Word Bearers partook of violating youths?



## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

So before you enter, cleanse your mind of any petty squabbles you have with religion, and or other cultural creeds different from your own (or perhaps purely just yours).

I have been researching the Word Bearers history, lore, and manuscripts heavily. What I have found is that a great deal of their lore is based on Babylonian culture, as well as some Latin roots.

Furthermore what I have deduced is that their entire naming scheme is a double barreled structure, and the names them self as well as their tendency to use honorifics consistently in addressing one another is a direct correlation of Babylonian culture/practices.

It becomes even more interesting when you start to look at the relationship between Lorgar and Kor Phaeron, the entire relationship of elder mentor and friend to Lorgar, particularly from his youth is very significant. In Babylonian culture this relationship is often one where the Mentor sexually molests the the child from youth, however due to the way the culture values mentor ship it is not seen as a negative occurrence. Now it becomes even more interesting when you add in the fact that Lorgar was upon the planet Colchis, a breaking down of the word itself reveals very disturbing truths. 

Colchis itself was in ancient times a word for a particular sort of building, one in which youths are herded into by the masses, where the covenant priest would than enlighten them onto the path of truth. This was done through deep, intense sexually molestation. 

The young children soft as silk, with skin pale as a stream of flowing milk, were led by the hundreds down a dark hallways deeper, and deeper into the Colchis temples. Their skin illuminated only by the ghostly flicker of the orange flames upon the walls, the only sound was the eternal and never ending putter patter of small foot step after foot step, as they were led to the room of ascension. It was here that the children became fully aware of what was to occur, it was a wide open chamber, with a ceiling so high and vaulted it could not be seen. For miles in every direction all that could be seen were young boys and girls strapped to strange tables and chairs, while groups priests were enlightening them. They called this the Plane of Eternal Moaning, they say the song produced by the tens of thousands of children all simultaneously moaning was like a chorus of tangible perfect, a true symphony of aural nirvana, that all who heard gained true fulfillment and meaning to life itself.

However I digress, the point is that the relationship between Kor Phaeron and Lorgar mimics the same as that of those of the children to the priest in Babylonian culture. However true to the culture, there is little negative consequence from it, as the children see it as a blessing. 

This leads me to my next point, Lorgar due to his cultural upbringing would spend countless months upon every planet conquered, to erect beautiful "Shrines" and "temples", to establish orders of "priests" and "chaplains" to "guide" the people onto the path of "enlightenment". However what truly was occuring, was Lorgar and the Word Bearers spending months to establish these temples of molestation, of which every planets youth was then molested into enlightenment.

I will post more later, for now I must return to my studies.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Lux said:


> I have deduced


The moment I switched off, as usual.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

As far as I know Colchis derives from the Greek for Meadow Saffron. Can you provide sources for the meaning you use?

I am also interested in further details of any sources containing the ritual you describe.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

He will never provide sources.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> He will never provide sources.


"Read between the lines".....


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Lux said:


> What I have found is that a great deal of their lore is based on Babylonian culture, as well as some Latin roots.


Based on does not mean that it mimics every facet of the culture. In creating the Word Bearers and their society on Colchis GW was inspired by ancient Babylonian names (partially I think because many of these names came to be tied to demons of the Christian mythos) and perhaps also their culture, but they took only what they needed and wanted to include.



> In Babylonian culture this relationship is often one where the Mentor sexually molests the the child from youth, however due to the way the culture values mentor ship it is not seen as a negative occurrence.


Your source for this?



> Colchis itself was in ancient times a word for a particular sort of building, one in which youths are herded into by the masses, where the covenant priest would than enlighten them onto the path of truth.


What's your source for this? According to Wikipedia (with numerous citations I'm not going to bother searching out) Colchis was a region/kingdom in what is now Georgia, home to some Greek heroes/gods and the destination the Argonauts where searching for. No mention of molestation temples.



> it was a wide open chamber, with a ceiling so high and vaulted it could not be seen. For miles in every direction...


Leaving aside the disturbing imagery, the building you describe here is bigger than any historical building I am aware of.



> However what truly was occuring, was Lorgar and the Word Bearers spending months to establish these temples of molestation, of which every planets youth was then molested into enlightenment.


1) Do you have evidence of this occurring?
2) Space Marines (and most likely Primarchs) are chemically castrated and mentally indoctrinated to the extent that they would be unwilling and unable to molest anyone.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

MEQinc, molestation was not seen as "molestation in the times of Bablyon. It was truly seen as "enlightenment", it would be the same as a professor teaching a student about a particular subject in school.

Conceptually, and socially it is acceptable and seen as education, just as in the cultural context of Bablyon it was seen as Education.

It seems disturbing and ridiculous to you because you are seeing it with the social lens, paradigm you were cultured with. It doesn't work when you view and attempt to understand cultural, social, psychological norms of an entirely different era than your own and you are employing your present day paradigm.

Lorgar and Kor Phaeron were not setting up temples of "rape", they were truly from their point of view setting up temples of "education". Sex is seen as such a negative act in today's world (mostly western societies). Even Rape is entirely different today than what it was say hundreds, thousands of yeas ago.

Sex was the tool Lorgar used as a conduit of inserting cultural, social, and emotional enlightenment.

The Space marines did not do it out of sexual pleasure, they did it out of duty and cultural values.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

I'm going to echo what everybody said already, if you can't provide exact quotes/sources for where you got your information from, nobody's going to believe a word that you say. Although technically I'd be more likely to believe you if you were talking about the Emperor's Children post Heresy, rather than the Word Bearers.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> As far as I know Colchis derives from the Greek for Meadow Saffron. Can you provide sources for the meaning you use?
> 
> I am also interested in further details of any sources containing the ritual you describe.


Dave... just don't even try to ask him that. He will never give out the source neither any lead as to where he got it. We've asked him before a million times and always ended up empty handed with that.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> I'm going to echo what everybody said already, if you can't provide exact quotes/sources for where you got your information from, nobody's going to believe a word that you say. Although technically I'd be more likely to believe you if you were talking about the Emperor's Children post Heresy, rather than the Word Bearers.


It really isn't that difficult to perceive, that the Word Bearers, which are a mix of Bablyonian, Greek, and Latin Cultures, would partake of sexually molestation/enlightenment of the youth. 

It wasn't a sexual practice, it was a social norm.

The very names of their cities, characters, and the fact they it explicitly states Lorgar and his legion would take extensive amounts of time to rebuild any conquered world with monuments, temples, priest orders etc. In addition to this, they would burn all evidence of prior religions, rather than assimilate, this is all direct echoes of Babylonia/Greek/Latin practices.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Consideing how babylon is demonized in christian mythology as being a highly sinful place, it correlates well with the word bearers carrying an unredeemable taint with them from 'babylon', aka colchis to corrupt the imperium/church with their false gods.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Brother Lucian said:


> Consideing how babylon is demonized in christian mythology as being a highly sinful place, it correlates well with the word bearers carrying an unredeemable taint with them from 'babylon', aka colchis to corrupt the imperium/church with their false gods.


This actually makes a great deal of sense, seeing as how the Imperium of man carries many, many, catholic church traits and qualities.

Very insightful of you.

Furthermore It would make sense, that a Bablynian/Greek/Latin civilization, that is than visited by catholic "god" (Emperor) would want them to convert to his ways. Thus when Lorgar, the aspect of Bablyon/Greek/Latin, begins to spread those values to worlds he is conquering, he is punished by the Emperor.

It is very similar to how in the inquisitional days, they would stamp out all other cultural/religious/social values and only implement their own, thus foreshadowing Lorgars fall from the very beginning.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

fascinating. It'd be cool if you actually made a thread like this with evidence. That would be pretty interesting. You sure sound honest. But with lots of people demanding sources, its actually pretty sad you don't have any. Would be a better discussion.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

ckcrawford said:


> fascinating. It'd be cool if you actually made a thread like this with evidence. That would be pretty interesting. You sure sound honest. But with lots of people demanding sources, its actually pretty sad you don't have any. Would be a better discussion.


I think the evidence speaks for itself, in research their is no "Evidence", there is strong however "strong likelihood" or "statistical correlations".

That's beside the point however, the "evidence" runs rampant in every novel that the Word Bearers are mentioned in, also basic history on the Babylonia/Greek/Latin culture/societies.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

research does have evidence though. Unless they conjured it from thin air. Maybe you read a book perhaps? A magazine? Maybe it was written in a bathroom wall that you went to in a McDonnalds.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

ckcrawford said:


> research does have evidence though. Unless they conjured it from thin air. Maybe you read a book perhaps? A magazine? Maybe it was written in a bathroom wall that you went to in a McDonnalds.


Generally in professional research, there is no "evidence", there is displays/showings that indicate a "strong likelihood". 

Research never "proves" anything, it however does provide "evidence" that there is a strong likelihood, or a likely correlation under a set condition.

But really....now we are just squabbling over petty semantics


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Brother Lucian said:


> Consideing how babylon is demonized in christian mythology as being a highly sinful place, it correlates well with the word bearers carrying an unredeemable taint with them from 'babylon', aka colchis to corrupt the imperium/church with their false gods.


This is what psychiatrists call 'enabling a delusion' and advise against it.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Comparing factual cultures to the lore of 40k is fine. 

However, involving topics like bestiality and child molestation in these comparisons is not. 

Do something like this again and you will be infracted. Heavily.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Lux said:


> I think the evidence speaks for itself


Evidence.....?


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Angel of Blood said:


> This is what psychiatrists call 'enabling a delusion' and advise against it.


do explain more clearly what you meant.


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## Thantis (Dec 3, 2012)

I can see the influence in the direction that was taken with thier inception, however as the subject matter is a very sensitive one I highly doubt games workshop would ever allow this into their fluff. There are certain concepts in todays modern world that would only serve to alienate GW from their consumer base and this I would think would be one of them. I think you are good on the babalyonian correlation as a base but I dont think anyone would tolerate thier kids/friends/strangers saying "I think i want to go with word bearers as their cho-mo ways really speak to me'


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Thread Locked.


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