# Looking to set-up 1st Fantasy Army



## KhorneFlakes (Jan 4, 2011)

Hello there,

Long-time 40k player (the Emperor Protects!) just getting into Warhammer Fantasy. I also find myself in the position of not really knowing which faction to take up with, which is odd as in 40k, I loved the Imperium's lore so much I immediately took up with the Adeptus Astartes and Imperial Guard and never looked back. While I really do like the lore in Fantasy, there isn't that one faction that begs me to play them like the Imperium did in 40k. Not a knock, just saying.

So, as it is, there's about 5 factions I like the lore and tactics of, and was looking for outside advice. I'm somewhat familiar with the basic Fantasy rules (between study of the rulebook and mentoring from an experienced player), but I've yet to fight, or even setup an army list. Before I do, I was looking for you fine people's input.

The armies I was looking at are 1) Bretonnia, 2) the Lizardmen, 3) the Skaven, 4) the Hordes of Chaos, and 5) Kislev. I'm not sold on any particular strategy or force composition yet, so feel free to offer up your experiences and advice.

Thank ya much.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Ok i think i can help you out here with a bit of info on each of the armys.

1) Bretonnia: Pretty under rated at the moment they really need an update but there pretty cool looking with all there cav.

2) the Lizardmen: An army you don't see much since people think they are way under powered however they are a pretty neat army to build & Paint not to mention easy to learn to play.

3) the Skaven: Horde, Upon horde...even with them being in the new starter set you will be spending tons of money to get an army finished. However you are rewarded with some whacky special rules and models that are Awesome!

4) the Hordes of Chaos: More or less fantasy's Spacemarines.....

5) Kislev: Are not a Legal army anymore......closest you could get is Vampire Counts and converting Empire troops into undead.


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## Tanarri (Jun 23, 2011)

1) Bretonnian's need an update but if you like the look and fluff for the army don't let the competitiveness stop you form playing them

2)I think Lizardmen are awesome I love that you get dinosaurs. They are a very strong army and I think they only reason they get over looked is that people like elves more then lizards.

3) Skaven is definitely a horde army and you will be putting alot of money into. That said what other army lets you shoot at your own troops? (granted you can no longer actually hit your own troops) If you pick them be careful when building them; unless you are very careful it will be a pain setting them up in formation every time you play.

4) Warriors of Chaos are pretty solid I would say they are top 3 for close combat however they don't really have munch in the way of range. Their magic is pretty powerful.

5)Kislev while cool you will have to convert or ebay all the models and they are no longer a legal army.


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

To be honest I think that Lizardmen or WoC would be the best choices for new starters to the Fantasy side of things.

Lizardmen have solid choices for each of the phases of the game. They have one of the best core troops in the form of saurus warriors ( 2 strength 4 attacks without any upgrades) plus the fact that they take leadership tests on 3D6 and discard the lowest dice is a great bonus - usually means that they will not be running away.

The best magic user in the form of the Slann and the Skink priests are a pest in Storm of Magic games.

Added to that they have a great range of monsters, kroxigor (in skink cohorts) salamanders, stegadons, terradons, saurus cavalry isn' that bad.

IF you go for this army then the basic formula for success would be Slann, Saurus, Temple Guard, more Saurus, some monsters (depends what you want to use/like the look of) and some more saurus. Maybe some skinks too for skirmish screens


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## greenee22 (May 12, 2011)

Ratvan said:


> Lizardmen have solid choices for each of the phases of the game.



umm.... 
what about the shooting phase?

not that magic doesn't make up for it, but the blowpipes and javelins can't really be called a solid choice.

but I agree with the rest of it, especially since slann have a great new SoM spell, the great leveler.


WoC are pretty good too, you can actually field marauders with great weapons in a 50-model horde for 250 points (ws4, s5- pretty ouch!)
also hellcannons are cool and so is most of the choices


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

yeah I did a bit long list of pros and cons then I got booted offline and couldn't be bothered to re type the whole thing, the easiest choices to miss was shooting as to be honest unless its an empire gunline or wood elf force shooting doesn't really enter much inot tactics imo.


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## Arli (Mar 4, 2010)

The only shooting (besides blowpipes and javelins) in the Lizardmen army is:

Stegadon with giant bow: Poisoned, str 5 (I think). Not worth it usually as it cannot move and fire (IIRC). I never take this as it just isn't worth it.

Stegadon with giant Blowpipes: This is nice. The rule for the giant blowpipe allows you to fire 2d6 (per blowpipe for a total of 4d6) shots without the -1 for multi-shoot. 

Razordons: Str 4 armor piercing shots that must always stand and shoot. These are very situational. Make sure you keep them outside the 6 inches so they can stand and shoot.

Salamanders: Hands down, the best shooting that a lizardmen army can use. These guys will kill their points back even in games where they eat up all the handlers. In my club, these scare the hell out of my opponents.


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## uber.walter (Jul 13, 2011)

in the form of saurus warriors ( 2 strength 4 attacks without any upgrades)

sauras only have 2 attacks and 4 strenght


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

1) Bretonnian's need an update but if you like the look and fluff for the army don't rule them out just cause you want a iWIN 100% Mode. They are also pretty similar to looks as a French Mediveal army. Lots of Knights and charges, weakish cores like Peasants, but other than that, pretty nice to look at.

2) My army, I love them because they have cool looking models. Which is pretty much it. They are well rounded, but as people said Shooting is pretty naff.... however if you bought 30 Cham Skinks... you rape everything. Anyways they also have pretty solid units such as the Saurus and Slann.... heroes are cool as well.

3) Skaven is definitely a horde army and you will be spending a lot on them! If you have the cash tho, they are pretty fun in terms of varying units, cool unique weapons and special rule fun.

4) Warriors of Chaos are great if you don't have a lot of cash. They are like Grey Knights in terms of Eliteness, they have expensive and powerful units. Thus you need less models that you would a Skaven/Orc army for example. They have the best core choice in the game. With only the Lizardmen Saurus coming close to their power. They also have pretty cool looking heroes and elites.

5)Kislev: No longer legal with rules and stuff, but I'm sure you could get people to play you.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Part of what you play is determined by what your goals are and what is legal. Some areas use ETC rules or some version of restrictions with special characters (at least lords), power scrolls, folding fortresses and sometimes Book of Hoeth banned. Some limit magic items that generate power dice or dispel dice or equivalents. Those rules can really change the balance of the game and what you play. 

You listed older armies, 

Bretts are a lot more competitive and better than people imagine because of the trebuchets, access to lore of life, and ability to rank up narrow units (should be a rule allowing cav to rank four wide in 8th). Cav are harder to paint and take more time to learn. 

Lizardmen are right now the top tier army (with dark elves and daemons and to a lesser extent Skaven) but they are fun to play and give you most of the aspects of the game (they don't have war machines). This is because of the advantages of the Slann (with or without a temple guard unit) as both a castor and in magic defense and as the BSB and general The combination of the abilities of salamanders in units of 2 or 3, the strong core and special infantry in saurus and temple guard (especially when augmented by lore of life spells), and the speed and shoot and march abilities of skink skirmishers (including chameleon skinks as scouts). The suggestions above that Lizardmen don't have good shooting have never played a good LM army where the cham. skink scouts kill a war machine a turn in units of ten with poisoned shooting and where the skink skirmishers with poison shooting put wounds on a tough monster asnd where shots from 2 or 3 salamanders into a horde of infantry decimates the unit and forces a panic test. The stegs are really good in the engine of the goods format (skink priest on top) but are more vulnerable to cannons (dwarves and empire and also sometimes skaven) in 8th edition. Skink priests have access to lore of heavens with heavens being a vastly under-rated lore (We're seeing high elf lvl 2 and lvl 2 warriors of chaos castors playing heavens.) You basically have all but war machines to play with in Lizardmen and the army book is newer and, thus, less likely to be changed. 

There are no hordes of chaos anymore. Hordes have been dividend into warriors of choas and daemons of chaos and beastmen. Warriors have strong/tough units and elite lords and heroes. Warriors are an above-average, but not top tier, army in our area in 8th. Warriors lack shooting, other than throwing axes on fast cav and a hellcannon (fun to play but quickly killed by dwarf and empire cannons), but have excellent access to magic and can augment units with warshrines in the shooting phase and can add marks to buff their units. They also can play monstrous infantry (chaos ogres are under-rated, as are trolls especially with Throgg in their unit, dragon ogres and shaggoths). But warriors lack good light units and scout/skirmish options that other armies have and use effectively to delay and redirect warriors units. 

Daemons of chaos are awesome to play if run right and the local rules allow. The greater daemon lords are now a bit too vulnerable to shooting and cost a lot, so you need to be in an environment with obstacles and building and impassible terrain to stop cannons to play them. They have good shooting with flamers (march and shoot skirmishers), good access to magic with horrors and heralds, a hard hitting unit with bloodletters, and a number of other interesting options. The army is no longer as top tier or as broken as it was in 7th edition. 

Skaven is near top tier as an army. They can be expensive and time-consuming to buy, build and paint because they have at their core very cheap and large steadfast blocks of troops. But they also have great rares in doomwheels (a bit unreliable at times but can be devastating), warp lightning cannons, and hellpit abominations (one of the best monsters in the game along with hydras run by dark elves). They have surprisingly good scouts in gutter runners. They have a lot of cheap characters and character options with excellent magic lores. Also, since Skaven was one of the last 7th edition books, the army will likely remain viable for a few years at least. The army should run a lot of slaves, clanrats and plague monks in large units backed by high leadership general (grey seer and/or war lord) and BSB and try to remain steadfast while shooting and magic and a hellpit or doomwheel take down the enemy units enough to win. Skaven special rules do mean that a cannon or doomwheel will fail you and you have to learn to play skaven (how to remain steadfast and avoid losing the rank bonus that is critical to max leadership and avoid units panicking or breaking too quickly). 

Kislev no longer exists but the core empire army book does exist. Empire is an above-average army right now (especially with war machines in the form of great cannons and mortars and engineers able to cover multiple war machines). Other than monsters (steam tank is a chariot or something else) empire armies have good options for all phases of the game except for lacking higher strength and higher toughness core units. 

FYI I play in a pretty balanced environment in our regional Indy GT's (Texas area) where we restrict special characters (only some heroes allowed), ban power scrolls, ban folding fortresses, and ban Book of Hoeth. Some tourneys are now also giving look out sir options for spells that hit all the models in the unit (dwellers, final transmutation, and dreaded 13th). Armies are otherwise not comped but we have a system of scoring sports that can really punish over-the-top armies. Thus, a great beastman player (one of our ETC players) can beat a good Lizardman or dark elf player in our system.


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