# Lord or Demon Prince?



## ArmoredGhost (Aug 18, 2008)

Just a prefferance question really. Which would work better as either in killing/capturing/surviving strategicly? I love the thought of fielding a monstrous creature HQ but I love the new Chaos Lord model. What do you guys think?


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

I perfer lords over dp any day, the dp just has too little to offer.


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## cooldudeskillz (Jun 7, 2008)

depends on the situation but I think DP are alot better, just what else they get for so little amount of points


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

DP. What are you, high? Even if you give the lord an ablative squad his survivability sucks, and he costs only twenty points less than a DP. The DP cannot be instantly killed by dreadnoughts or powerfists or lascannons. The DP automatically gets the 'monstrous creature' and 'eternal warrior' bonuses, his WS is higher than that of the accursed marines, and all over, a stronger, much more lethal hq choice. But if you -really- must have the chaos lord model, make him into a terminator champ.

New Chaos Codex Rule #5-
Don't ever take a lord when you have models to represent a sorceror or Daemon prince

New Chaos Codex Rule #6-
Don't ever take a sorceror when you have a model to represent a Daemon prince


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## Deceiver (Sep 19, 2007)

Prince of Darkness over the Lord every time.
Big, bad monsterous creatures are the way.


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## ArmoredGhost (Aug 18, 2008)

Ok sounds good, but what if you had enough points (1,500) to field both? I guess it would be better to use the points elsewhere.


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## LeeHarvey (Jul 25, 2008)

I go with the Demon Prince. Give him the Wings, Mark of Tzeench to make his inv save 4+, Doombolt and Warptime, and then attach him to a squad of raptors with an Aspiring Champion equipped with LC's and two Raptors with Meltaguns. There is nothing you can't kill with this unit.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

Hey, I like Chaos Lords. You can keep your DP - can you field a Prince with up to 17 attacks? Not that I've ever done so myself, but it's the principle of the thing. Can a DP, under any circumstances, insta-kill Marine HQ? Or an Eldar Avatar? How about a Necron Lord? Can you put one in a rhino with nine CSMs and rush the enemy without ever being in danger of being shot to pieces before he gets there? No, a Prince cannot do these things. It is a very powerful unit with a high target profile and almost no versatility. I'll keep my Lord, thank you very much.

[EDIT: Ninja'd. But I thought I should point out that, as the Prince is a Monstrous Creature rather than an Independent Character, you can't attach him to any squad, ever.]


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## killmaimburn (Mar 19, 2008)

The difference lays in surivability. A lord w/o a daemon weapon will never, ever be able to compare to a DP. But the daemon weapon balances lower S attacks and survivability by having more attacks. A khorne lord w/ bloodfeeder (dangerous but fun, I run him in semi-competitive) will take 4 + 2d6 power weapon attacks w/o the charge. A tzeentch lord can shoot them up and then charge. A nurgle lord will kill MC's faster than a prince, and a slaanesh lord will wipe multi-wound squads like oblits, HQ's, spawn, ogryn with super ease. Prince has better survivability, and psychic if non-khorne. For an example, just last game my khorne terminator lord with a bloodfeeder and in a squad with 4 surviving zerkers (after a battlecannon shot) was charged by a prince, a full zerker squad, and oblits. My zerks were wiped but my lord took 14 attacks, killing 9 zerkers and winning combat for me 9 - 4. I forced 5 saves onto his last zerker, oblits, and prince. So in 1 round of combat my lord killed 10 berzerkers, wounded a prince, and wounded an obliterator. Already payed for himself and more.


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## Druchii in Space (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm taking a winged Khorne DP everytime atm, partially as I don't have a Lord figure, but mainly as hes so damned hard, he died for the first time from four battles against my mates Orks the other week, every other time hes weathered anything they could throw at him including the warboss and dropped everything his faced up until he ran into a mass squard of boyz the other night.

His best two showings so far for me, has been when a Chaplain and 5 assault Marines (4th rules) DS next to him, shot at him for no gain. He charged, killed all the Marines in round one, and dropped the Chaplian in round two. The other time was charged against by eight Tyranids Warriors, who managed 9 rending wounds (once again 4th rules) and he saved them all with his Inv, then went on to wipe out the squad.

In larger games the beardy side of me says take a second DP, but tbh I'd probably introduce a lord or more likely a Sorceror of Tzeeentch.


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

Apples and oranges, folks... :wink:

It all depends on what you want the HQ to do. When I want a back-breaking, frontal assault I stick a lord with a squad of 'zerkers, or a sorcerer lord attached to a Tsons squad (scary stuff, right there), etc.

If I want a support unit, a unit that needs to get behind my enemies ranks to crack that bassy or dev squad, I go with a prince with wings. His higher WS and init (higher with Mk Slaanesh), not to mention ",Eternal Warrior," keeps him a threat. Also, though he is a monsterous creature, his footprint is smaller than that of a squad with an attached lord. And, unless you're playing with either very little terrain, or very short terrain, you can keep him hidden (a DP "hiding." The mental image alone gave me a chuckle), possibly.


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## World Eater (Aug 31, 2008)

Hail,

I would have to say that both options are great for a Chaos Commander who knows how to achieve his objectives. My big points towards a DP is the fact he is not a big point sink for what he can do. Even if he only rips apart a Predator tank(165 pts), or a 10 man tac squad with weapons(180) he's also drawn lots of lascannon/missile/ plasma fire power which your CSMs or cult troops or tanks could have been eatin'. The Lord can be great because of the customization of wargear options. He's also able to hide with a squad, but only increases the cost of the Lord also. Knowing where the Lord means your opponent will be dropping templates, lascannon, missile launchers, railguns etc. into that squad.

Here's an example I use when I need to see the difference between the two:

Take 3 units with rhinos. Place the Lord in 1 of those units. That gives 3 targets for the enemy to shoot at. Now most of the time they will target the rhino with the Lord.
Now Have a DP flying beside the 3 units. There will be 4 targets to fire at. there is a good chance they will shoot the DP. And I would certainly hope so! My troops(and Chaos Troop choices in general) are the main method of achieveing our objectives. A DP or Lord cannot claim objectives alone.

One last thing, A DP has less points options to tease you with. A lord at 90 points really doesn't do much. You are forced to add a couple a things be it terminator armour, weapons, bikes, to the point that to be effective, they will cost more than a DP.
I favour the DP more, but can see some tactical uses of the Lord.

BFTBG!!

World Eater


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## World Eater (Aug 31, 2008)

Hail,

I forgot another point towards the DP, I use the Balrog Model for my DP. His wingspan is huge! You can't help but focus on that monstrous model! My current Chaos Lords are based on 25mm bases, so I find I can 'hide them better. Most of my opponents have less than 7 years exprience, so they relentlessly fire at the DP, which even if it means his death, I can use that to my advantage.

BFTBG!!

World Eater


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## Druchii in Space (Apr 7, 2008)

Aye I should probably hold my hands up and admit that the four games I've mentioned, and most games I seem to play of late are 1000pts or less, in which I believe the DP becomes a much more attractive model than he already is.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Druchii in Space said:


> Aye I should probably hold my hands up and admit that the four games I've mentioned, and most games I seem to play of late are 1000pts or less, in which I believe the DP becomes a much more attractive model than he already is.


at 1500 -2250 the lord is a better choice due to reliability, versatility, and deep strike(if given terminator armor).


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

World Eater said:


> Hail,
> 
> I forgot another point towards the DP, I use the Balrog Model for my DP. His wingspan is huge! You can't help but focus on that monstrous model! My current Chaos Lords are based on 25mm bases, so I find I can 'hide them better. Most of my opponents have less than 7 years exprience, so they relentlessly fire at the DP, which even if it means his death, I can use that to my advantage.
> 
> ...


For legality issues, I was told that part of the contract between GW and New Line Cinema, the LOTR range was not to be mixed with GW's own ranges.

Personally, I'd choose the Lord. I wouldn't make him any more magnificent than the rest of the troopers, so plonking him in a unit, or even one inside a Rhino, would give me something real nasty to smash into a gunline with.

If I could have both, I would, but I'd choose the Lord first.


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## Spot The Grot (Jul 15, 2008)

Vaz said:


> For legality issues, I was told that part of the contract between GW and New Line Cinema, the LOTR range was not to be mixed with GW's own ranges.



unless ive misunderstood this , i don't believe that , my bro spends his time on a tyranid forum and when it comes to flyrants they all use balrog wings the manager of my local shop actualy suggested them to him aswell .

I use DP as i just think they can be a pain in the arse for the opponent most people aim at DP rather than a lord as its the thought of this huge hulking thing meeting there front line . I like to use them a close combat / phychic support as chaos lords can't multi task like that .
A chaos lord kills a DP supports and draws fire power not to mention that DP models are better but are about 3 times as expensive to buy in shops with wings .


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## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

Vaz said:


> For legality issues, I was told that part of the contract between GW and New Line Cinema, the LOTR range was not to be mixed with GW's own ranges.


Good for them.

And when the boys from New Line come down to your local gaming room with their crowbars and baseball bats, be sure and point out you're not collecting fees for the use of a Balrog as a Daemon Prince, and that it's ultimately not any of their damn business once the model's been paid for.


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## necroman (Jun 13, 2008)

a dp with wings could technically hide a whole rhino behind it and that rhino could have like 300pts of tsons in it. i like shooty with chargy dp. would say it depends on rest of army though. if you dont have a lot of cc, would get a lord fo sho and give him slanesh and a personal rhino. but on the rest of the cases like a sexy looking dp.


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## Druchii in Space (Apr 7, 2008)

The Lotr bits on other GW models thing only comes into play at Golden Daemon, they can't show it in their mags or online, thus don't expect to win a statue if you have a Hive Tyrant with Balrog wings.

But aye, no ones going to say nothing in the local games store.


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

Dp for me always for 140 pts you can have a DP of khorne with wings. absolute bargain.


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## Druchii in Space (Apr 7, 2008)

Son of mortarion said:


> at 1500 -2250 the lord is a better choice due to reliability, versatility, and deep strike(if given terminator armor).


Aye I see what your saying, but I'd still probably take the DP first in that pts bracket as well. A lord as a second choice would certainly be a consideration.

I think I was also trying to point out that when you have smaller games 1000pts of less the DP becomes much more favourable than either of the other HQ choices due to how hard he is. Its partially why my mate took 4 battles to kill him, there just isn't as much there to deal with his combat ability, especially with the wings allowing him to pick and choose his fights.


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

My personal fav for a winged DP is MoN and then with warptime, kills stuff real good and nice T6 is fun lol, when im messing around though i usually take a lord, if im going more competative ill go with a DP


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## Shannar (May 3, 2008)

I always use DP with MoK and wings. Fear effect of this unit is big advantage for whole army, because opponent always try to kill DP first. He really rocks against tau,SV3+,ok,INV5+,ok,T5, yeah and five attacks with WS7 and S6. For example, yeasterday I was playing against tau and used DP to kill his Hammerhead. Than I destroy his two crisis in CC....game was my


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Son of mortarion said:


> at 1500 -2250 the lord is a better choice due to reliability, versatility, and deep strike(if given terminator armor).


How does he have anymore reliability or versatility?

If you give him the terminator upgrade, he's a mere five points from a plane-jane DP.

The chaos lord cannot strike at s6 on initiative order, he does not benefit from the monstrous creature special rule, and he can be instantly killed. His daemon weapon is overpriced, his statline is only marginally nastier than a space marine captain(who will dice you in CC thanks to his command squad.)

Meanwhile, the daemon prince is a winged horror. Whatever you run him into short of an ork swarm will be crushed into oblivion. He can easily throw landraiders aside and send marines back into the holding box.

If you deep strike a lord, what exactly is he going to do? Use a combi-weapon? Than explode violently as he can't deepstrike with any support at all? Deep striking a lord is the equivalent of throwing a vital, expensive key at a door overlooking a pit. The daemon prince is having the key already in the hole and a nice bridge between you and the door.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Lord Sinkoran said:


> Dp for me always for 140 pts you can have a DP of khorne with wings. absolute bargain.


You'd probably be better off with a Daemon Prince with wings and Warptime. Less attacks, but rerolls to hit and wound...


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## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> If you deep strike a lord, what exactly is he going to do? Use a combi-weapon? Than explode violently as he can't deepstrike with any support at all? Deep striking a lord is the equivalent of throwing a vital, expensive key at a door overlooking a pit. The daemon prince is having the key already in the hole and a nice bridge between you and the door.


I was under the impression that witht he new rules you can attach an IC to a squad, then roll for reserves for the whole to at once... allowing you to deep strike your lord in with a terminator squad or a raptor squad or something.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but I'm pretty sure (no rulebook at work so can't confirm!)


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## killmaimburn (Mar 19, 2008)

I've seen people doing that since 4th, and I'm almost completely sure it's in 5th. I think an FAQ in 4th might have allowed that but I'll check my rulebook...


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

205pts gets you a Tzeentch Prince with wings, Warptime, and Wind of Chaos and a 4+ inv save. Absolutely NO better HQ choice for potential destruction in the book, period. Wind may be short range but it autohits when in range, ignores cover saves which is huge in 5th, and then can charge in with 5 attack that have re-rolls on hits and wounds. Even a lord with Bloodfeeder won't reliably do that much every time where you can count on it with a Prince like that. Yes getting him there may be the downfall but with a unit that moves 12" at a time it isn't that hard and you can always stick him behind a Land Raider and hide him from LOS if you need to. My tson army is ALWAYS led by this guy at any point range from 1000pts up.


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

The Wraithlord said:


> 205pts gets you a Tzeentch Prince with wings, Warptime, and Wind of Chaos and a 4+ inv save. Absolutely NO better HQ choice for potential destruction in the book, period. Wind may be short range but it autohits when in range, ignores cover saves which is huge in 5th, and then can charge in with 5 attack that have re-rolls on hits and wounds.


Hey wraith dont forget winds of chaos is affected by warptime as well, it affects *ALL* hits and wounds for the turn, so gogo winds wounding on 4+ and being able to reroll failed wounds! a very mean combo, im still partial to my T6 warptime prince though, once you get that i think it boils down to preference, but seems like warptime should almost be standard for a dp these days :laugh:


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## Lucius Vane (Jan 21, 2008)

Wow, why did I never think of that... I must keep thinking warptime activates during the assault phase.:no:


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