# CSM vs Nidzilla help



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Hey everyone, I'm having an awful tough time against my friend who is always using some form of Nidzilla list, I was wondering if anyone with experience against these types of lists might be able to help with some tactics.

The list I am currently using is :

*1500pts (1495pts) (5 Vehicles) (30 Models)*

*HQ*

Chaos Lord, Mark of Slaanesh, Daemon Weapon, Meltabombs, 140pts

*TROOPS*

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, IOS, Combi-Flamer, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 275pts

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, IOS, Combi-Flamer, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 275pts

9 Noise Marines, Champion, Power Weapon, Doom Siren, Meltabombs, x9 Sonic Blasters, 275pts

*HEAVY SUPPORT*

Land Raider, Daemonic Possession, 240pts

Vindicator, Daemonic Possession, 145pts

Chaos Predator, Autocannon, Lascannons sponsons, Havoc Launcher, 145pts 


His own list varies but is usually something like :

*1500pts 

HQ*

Swarmord or Flying Hive Tyranid

*ELITES*

2-4 Hive Guard

x2 Zoanthropes or Doom of Malantai in Spore

*Troops*

Tervigon, with x2 20 Termagaunts (this thing actually spawned about 30 extra in 3 turns in our recent game)

*Heavy Support

*Trygon Prime (comes underneath the ground)

Tyrannofex with regeneration

Now the board we play on is usually around 50" Long and we use a 15" deplayoment zone and play 3-5 objectives worth 250pts each , this means the that Tyrannofex starts hitting my Land Raider turn one with x2 S10 shots, in the latest game his Hive Tyranid survived being shot with x2 Meltaguns, an Autocannon, 18 SB shots and then assulted by Noise Marines and Lord because all of their shots / CC Wounds needed 6's to do anything. 

Now I don't want to tailor a list just to beat him, as I also play against Tau regularly and Mech guard too and I'm hoping to eventually enter some tournaments. However I am willing to substitute some of my units to try and help, but all those T6 wounds are really annoying lol.

Any and all help would be great, thanks.


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## gundamboy195 (Aug 17, 2010)

what's a tervagon?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

HQ

Chaos Lord, Mark of Slaanesh, Daemon Weapon, Meltabombs, 140pts
MBs, your fighting Nids not Mech. Personally a DP with Lash would be more helpful, but as for CSM Lords go this is as good as it gets against Nids.

TROOPS

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, IOS, Combi-Flamer, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 275pts
How you get 275? That unit costs 265. Other than that its fine.

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, IOS, Combi-Flamer, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 275pts
Same as above.

9 Noise Marines, Champion, Power Weapon, Doom Siren, Meltabombs, x9 Sonic Blasters, 275pts
Lose the MBs, what you need them for? Also drop a NM and 4 SBs. Thats like 45 Pts saved. If you have a DS Champ with PW, its gonna be wasted in a range squad, and losing a single 25 Pt model hurts more than a 20 Pt model. 5 SBs with Champ and 2 generic casualty takers works well.

HEAVY SUPPORT

Land Raider, Daemonic Possession, 240pts
Lose the DP, not really needed, thats 20 pts.

Vindicator, Daemonic Possession, 145pts
Excelent choice, needs lash though to bring out full potential.

Chaos Predator, Autocannon, Lascannons sponsons, Havoc Launcher, 145pts 
No,no,no. Lose the LCs, and get HBs. Make it a Daka Pred. Cheaper and better for these MCs. That saves you 30 pts.


So I would if you could field a badly needed DP, maybe more troops. I dont know what models you have but if you were too...

HQ

Chaos Lord, Mark of Slaanesh, Daemon Weapon, 135pts

Sorceror, Mark of Slannesh, Lash, 125pts

TROOPS

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, IOS, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 255pts

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, IOS, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 255pts

8 Noise Marines, Champion, Power Weapon, Doom Siren, x5 Sonic Blasters, Rhino, 250pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

Land Raider, 220pts

Vindicator, Daemonic Possession, 145pts

Chaos Predator, Autocannon, H. Bolter sponsons, Havoc Launcher, 115pts 

Throw the Lash Sorceror in the Rhino with the NMs to Lash what you need to and DM what has to die all from the saftey of your paper thin Rhino. Hatches are awsome for this combo. Then when his big bad monsters need to be assualted Disembark on your turn, Lash, and Blast/DS away, then assualt whats left. Work for me. Disembark, Lash, Blast/DS, and Assualt. 
All the while your CSM Lord rides the LR to kill to have his 16" assualt movement to kill those Fukin Trygons/Tyrano Fex. One wound out of possible 6-10 PW attacks to kill those monsters. Also at Int 6 helps to allow you assualt first.
Your CSMs will Melta and if possible assualt, its what they do.
Remember the Doom is useless against Troops in Transports, He is a high target priority. Once he landed hit him with CSM Lord if you have to.
Assault Hive Guard, your odds on the charge favor your CC CSMs better than a shoot out.
DO NOT FIGHT THE SWARMLORD. Dont do it! Hes like Abbaddon for Nids, Lash him AWAY into Difficult Terrain and Blast him to death with the Daka Pred.
Your Vindi will act as your Anti Horde, Blast the Gaunts right back up mama Tervigons ass.

Honestly the only thing that would be better is lose the CSM Lord, a single SB totting NM, and the LR. Then get your self another Lashing unit in the form of a winged DPand 3 Oblits. The Oblits are perfect for Plasma Cannon and Lasscanon the fuck out of anything he throws at you, and can hold their own. DS with the Icons so Doom cant kill them out right. The Extra Lash combined with the power of the DP will also help you take out those damn Hive Gaurd by itself early on. 

In the end its really how you manage your force, but this will help I belive.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

gundamboy195 said:


> what's a tervagon?


Hey, don't you hate the internet sometimes lol, it can be hard to interpret what is meant by a message.

(A) I realised it should be Tervigon (which I've now changed it to), so if you were pointing out that spelling mistake then, thats just being a .....

(B) If you don't know what the unit is (I'm assuming this is what you meant) its a T6 W6 MC that can be taken as a Troop choice along with a unit of Termaguants, in the movement phase, before it moves, it can spawn 3 D6 worth of Termagaunts and can continue to do so every MP until it rolls a double and then it stops or you run out of Termagaunt models. These models can be placed with 6" but can then move regularly in the same MP. He rolled a 6/5/1 a 5/4/2 and a 6/2/3/ in 3 turns and that just sucked lol. It can also add FNP or furious charge to units of Termagaunts due to a psychic power.

Either way, hope that helps.


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## gundamboy195 (Aug 17, 2010)

ummmm that things a bitch and a half it sounds like


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## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

Drop Meltabombs all around, no reason to take it since 'Nids don't have vehicles.

I'd recommend replacing Melta with Plasma, since it has longer range/rapid fire. Melta suffers against MCs because it only has 12" range and 1 shot.

I would also highly recommend a Daemon Prince with MOS/Wings/Lash. It has high mobility, good CC ability, and can use Lash (which is always nice). Plus it adds another threat to possibly draw fire away from your LR and Rhinos.

Warlock pretty much covered everything else, so just make those little changes and you should be set.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Hey Warlock in Training, thanks for taking the time to help out, based on your suggestions how about the following list

*1500pts (1500pts) (6 Vehicles) (32 Models)*

*HQ*

Chaos Lord, Mark of Slaanesh, Daemon Weapon, 135pts
*Rides with Doom Siren Rhino NM's*

Chaos Sorcerer, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission, 125pts
*Rides with the Blastmaster Rhino*


*TROOPS*

5 Noise Marines, Champion, Powerfist, 1 Blastmaster, Rhino, 215pts
Ideally, this squad and the Lash Sorcer stay inside and Lash/Blast I added the PF Champion for reduntancy, 24" for the lash is close, him + plus the Force weapon is MC insurance

5 Noise Marines, x5 Sonic Blasters, Champion, Powerfist, Doom Siren, Rhino 215pts
A Doom Siren + 10 assult bolter shots + I5 NM is enough to weaken any horde, the champion with PF helps against MC but the Lords Blissgiver just needs to do its job once and its a dead MC plus he's great against hordes

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, IOS, Combi-Flamer, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 275pts
150 + 15 + 25 + 20 + 10 + 20 + 35 = 275 I like this squad set-up as it can take on anything, hordes, Dreadnoughts, MC, Meq in cover, its expensive but for me gets the job done.

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, IOS, Combi-Flamer, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 275pts
Same as above


*HEAVY SUPPORT*

Vindicator, Daemonic Possession, 145pts
It is such a great unit it feels like cheating

Chaos Predator, Autocannon, Heavy Bolters, Havoc Launcher, 115pts 
Took your advice more Dakka and more purpose, AC + LC + Havoc felt like a weird combo with no real identity.

So this is the new list, to be honest I was singing the LR praises in the original list, but after using it, every strength 10 weapon or Lance makes your cry as you watch rolls for hits and penetration, hopefully this new list is both better and still very fluffy for a Slaanesh Warband.

One other thing to remember is I have to be careful about tailoring a list just to beat him, I want it to be viable vs other armies as well, I think this list does that, what say all of you?


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Deathscythe4722 said:


> Drop Meltabombs all around, no reason to take it since 'Nids don't have vehicles.
> 
> I'd recommend replacing Melta with Plasma, since it has longer range/rapid fire. Melta suffers against MCs because it only has 12" range and 1 shot.
> 
> I would also highly recommend a Daemon Prince with MOS/Wings/Lash. It has high mobility, good CC ability, and can use Lash (which is always nice). Plus it adds another threat to possibly draw fire away from your LR and Rhinos.


I actually add a 3 Man Termicide, Dreadnought with ML + CCW + Heavy Flamer, 10 Slaanesh model Lesser Daemons and Lash Prince in 2000pt games. I just hate using the prince in under 2000 because I think its more fluffy he leads a real army. As for plasma, I actually like them, but with IOS you need to get to CC or you waste 20pts so they aren't viable. 



gundamboy195 said:


> ummmm that things a bitch and a half it sounds like


Why yes, yes it is lol, the only cool thing is any Termagaunt units with 6" of it when it dies take 3 D6 hits per squad, which is alway fun to watch!


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

D-A-C said:


> Hey Warlock in Training, thanks for taking the time to help out, based on your suggestions how about the following list
> 
> *1500pts (1500pts) (6 Vehicles) (32 Models)*
> 
> ...


Much much better. I see where the 20 Pts came 10 pts on the CSM came from. I am not use to seeing any Icon other than Chaos Undivided. For a Fluffy list it works. Yeah this list looks better. Just keep that Swarm Lord away and you'll be fine.


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## Uilleam (Nov 23, 2009)

One word my Slaanesh loving friend: Blissgiver. Sure, he's only wounding them on 6s. But he has alot of tries to do it! Only takes 1 wound since the bugs suffer a severe lack of invul saves. Oh, and did I forget to mention you'll be going first at I6. Yes, I've seen a Tyrant and 3 Tyrant Guard all die to one Slaanesh Lord in one round of combat before they could even swing. Warlock is definitly steering you in the right direction. Though personally, if you really wanna make every bug player on these forums berzerk, go for 2 Lords with Blissgivers.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm just wondering, would it be better to use My Sorcerer with wings and attach him to a 5 Man Raptor Squad, x2 Melta, Champion, Fist, IOS, 180pts instead of a BM Noise squad in a Rhino?


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

If your only having problems with the MC's then just bring a decent sized unit of PF terminators (Hell half the damn nid MC's these days have virtually no Inv)


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I steer away from the Raptors. CSMs perfom as well in CC, can ride a Rhino, and at 10 man strong carry a 2 Meltas. Where the Raptors are overprice, Scatter 2D6 when DS, and have no AV value between them and the enemy. 

Its not worth it. Your Sorceror will last longer Lashing from the Hatch of the Rhino and having your Blast Master drop the Blast Marker of SM Doom, or the Heavy 2 HB shots. Its also better for a all comers list.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> I steer away from the Raptors. CSMs perfom as well in CC, can ride a Rhino, and at 10 man strong carry a 2 Meltas. Where the Raptors are overprice, Scatter 2D6 when DS, and have no AV value between them and the enemy.
> 
> Its not worth it. Your Sorceror will last longer Lashing from the Hatch of the Rhino and having your Blast Master drop the Blast Marker of SM Doom, or the Heavy 2 HB shots. Its also better for a all comers list.


Yeah your probably right, I think after a bit more consideration that those indirect fire missiles from the hive guard would rape them, not to mention old Doom himself, he spores beside them and it could be trouble. Also because they aren't fearless and don't have IOCG I think they have to take leadership texts to attack his Flyrant or Swarmlord and such a small squad is easy to break. It was more because I like the Sanguinary Guard models I thought they might make a cool squad when converted.

Thanks to everybody for their help, I decided I'm not doing any battle reports atm because of the amount of proxes we use and lack of painted models i.e. his Trygon Prime is a Kitchen Roll lol. But I'll post a little feedback when I have my next game which should be next week.

Thanks for all the help everyone!!!!


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## ROT (Jun 25, 2010)

1 Word to defeat Tyranids.

Plasma.


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## jfvz (Oct 23, 2010)

I play both nids and CSMs, a few stratigies i have come with 2 combat the nidzilla threat:

Typhus: While he maybe a bit expensive, he has a nurgle daemon weapon that is also a force weapon, a deadly combo against any huge beasty, just be careful not 2 let him get swamed with the nids and their shadow in the warp.

Dick squads: basically 5 havocs with lascannons or missile launchers, just sit them up at your back line and hammer the MCs. Also good against vehicles, ive lost many a defiler in my 1st turn SM dick squads

Chosen squads either outflanking or infiltrating with 5 special weapons (flamers, plasma, etc) are usually quite effective, espically if there is effective terrain 4 u. Give em an icon and u can summon daemons right up into their ranks 2 keep the chosen pumping out the shots.

The only effective way ive found 2 deal with Nidzillas in cc are powerfists or nurgle or slaanesh daemon weapons. Through by far the best cc against nidzillers is abbadon, he usually kills them be4 they can strike back, through as always getting swamped by the swam is something you must be careful of


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## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

Another important thing to consider is the Nids upgrade "lash Whips".
make sure you arent assaulting a big beasty expecting to go 1st only to find you are on the receiving end of 6-7 S6 attacks with no armour saves, something to be mindful of


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## IntereoVivo (Jul 14, 2009)

Some good info here. Especially this bit: 


ROT said:


> Plasma.


Aside from that, Lash of Submission and Missile Launchers.

Lash Whips are a pain though...I'm still trying to figure out a good way to eat them.


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