# Chaos Thoughts . . Autocannons



## GutCheck (Apr 28, 2009)

So, I've played Deathguard for quite some time and while I do embrace grandfather's nurglie goodness, I'm looking for a little change of scenery. 

I'm more of a friendly gamer so, interesting cinematic games are what I look for. In the same vein, I do like to stomp people. :grin:

So, I'm looking to put in some fire support and a squad of Havocs toting Autocannons looks pretty awesome to me.

They've can be: anti-light vehicle, anti-troop, anti-bike.
They've got a decent AP value and have the range to reach out and touch someone. 

Anyone have any practical experience using autocannons en-mass?


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Well, Atuocannons have the power to stop any light vehicle. So 4 Autocannons would keep any AV11 or less vehcile from entering that zone. 8 str7 hits would do something.

You have a high enough rate of fire to surpress infantry, high enough strength to harm MCs, and a decent enough AP to go through most armours. Even against marines, you can hit with enough shots to force a handful of saves.

Its not a bad idea, but try 2 autocannons and 2 missile launchers for some security.


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## IntereoVivo (Jul 14, 2009)

I'm with Orochi on this one. Autocannons are slick in the right spot, but it would suck to field a unit that will be less then useful in some situations. The missile launchers will diversify it nicely.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Autocannons are indeed an underused type of weapon so it most certainly can work neatly. Missile Pods works ace as a Tau player, and most players hates Lootas and they shoot Orkified ACs, both of these share the same stats so I really cant see why ACs wouldnt be good:good:

Weight of S7 shots counts for a lot tbh. 2+2 AC+ML or 4 AC is probably both valid. Id personally go for 4 ACs though. Its only AV14 that MLs have as a triumph card against ACs(yes yes and pen on AV13) and tbh against such things you want Melta/Lascannons. The trade of is more shots which means more rolled dice which means higher chance of any effect at all, which I personally prefer


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## GutCheck (Apr 28, 2009)

So, that being said. 
One squad or two. I'd be giddy if I could get overlapping fields of fire with 2 Havoc squads kitted out with Autocannons. The only worry is, that chews up a lot of heavy slots and I'd be relying on my troops with melta weapons for anti-tank. It could be a rough first and second round.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Two units is going to eat up a lot of Heavy Support slots, yes. You'll probably have to take Obliterators as your third choice (at least two in the unit, I'd think) to give your army a little bit of long-ranged punch to keep your enemy under pressure while you maneuver other units into place. Terminators, Chosen and even Bikes might be useful as they don't generally struggle to get close to vehicles and zap 'em with melta weaponry.


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## GutCheck (Apr 28, 2009)

Hmm... bikes...


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## XYRYXYR (Aug 18, 2009)

From my experience i would say take one squad of four acs, and one squad of two oblits for meltas


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## Iraqiel (May 21, 2008)

Buying eight Autocannon models and two obliterators, and possibly with missile toting csms is pretty pricey. Unless you've got the money to throw around, I recommend that you play some games with some proxies before you commit to this one.


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## SKITTLESKITTEN (Feb 12, 2008)

auto cannons are pretty good considering they want 35 pts for a laser cannon and make some really good troop killing weapons vs like guard, tau, orks, nids, eldar, dark eldar (espeically vs skimmers), and arent even that bad against meq if youre firing at them while theyre in cover anyways

what it probably comes down too though is just their rarity, not many ppl play with ACs so that probably makes them worth taking, 2 squads is a lot of points though, espeically for chaos


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I suggest two squads of Havocs, with 2 ACs and 2 MLs and of cource in Rhinos, so you can position them in turn one than rape in the next, depending on what gun you need (remember that 2 guys can shoot from the Rhino, and hey, what do we have here...). Or if you have the time to spare then just disembark and form up. Either way, you'll have two squads that will dish out a lot of hurt and act as fire magnets that you can use to your advantage. Giving them an IoCG to DS some Termies in is going to make your opponent sweat a lot: should he risk the fury of the Termies in order to threaten the Havocs, or should he just run for cover and take it like a man? Tough call.

Fortunately, our Codex allows us to be rather flexible in terms of what FoC slot we use for what because any slot can be used for anything. In this case, you use Havocs to dish out hurt at long range to everyone with Wounds and an AV lower than 13. However, you need something mean against AV14 and even AV13 vehicles because you don't want to waste your Havocs' firepower on stuff they have little chance to destroy/render useless. For this role I suggest using DS-ing Obliterators and Terminators with Chainfists (two at most) and combi-meltas, maybe Outflanking Chosen with Meltas in Rhinos but thats a risky business. Though if you're doing Death Guard then your PMs with Meltas should be able to handle anything once they get close enough.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

My Guard army always has a HW squad with 3 Autocannons in. I use them primarily for popping Rhino's coming towards my lines and they work a treat.


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

bear in mind that 5 chaos marines with 4 Auto cannons comes in at 155points, slightly more than two obliterators. if you stick more ablative marines in or rhinos as some people have suggested then you become very expensive.

If there are other targets on the table, such as an obliterator unit or transports then I would expect the havocs would not be high on many peoples target priority but I find it very hard when looking in the chaos Heavy support section not to opt for either obliterators, defiliers or vindicators. Even a predator for that matter.

It's the flexibility that is useful.


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## GutCheck (Apr 28, 2009)

Great discussion guys! 
I will take everyone's input into consideration. Rest assured I will NOT run out and drop $??? on 8 autocannons. 

When I make up squads I tend to maximize them, normal CSM are not fearless and loosing a Havoc Squad due to a bad Ld. roll would really ruin my day. :angry: 

I think our biggest worry is long range tank killing. Deathguard has a problem with this already.
Vindicators are cool and dropping big pie plates of S10 death is appealing, but.. limited effective range. 
Defilers have better range than Vindicators but less armor.
Predators can be kitted out to do just about anything you want/need. An anti-troop predator is actually fairly cheap (Autocannon, Heavy Bolter, Havoc Launcher). It's possible to just park it in some trees and lay down the law. I guess my big reason to take a closer look at havocs is to avoid the one shot one kill that I've seen a lot with tanks. While a squad of 10 Havocs with 4 Autocannons and (let's be facny) the icon of nurgle is pricey; camp them in some trees or a building and they'll be there all game. They could even summon some lesser daemons to sit with them and capture objectives in your deployment zone. 

A lot of people I have chatted with like Obliterators. Their versatility is appealing, what worries me is that their toughness is no longer 5. Do most people deep strike their Obliterators?


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## b.anthracis (Nov 18, 2008)

DSing Oblits... this depends on my opponents list and mine. But most of the time I deploy them from the start in some nice 4+ cover giving ruin. For DSing and killing a tank I usually use 3 Termis with kombi melter. A bit more pricy but I don't waste my precious heavy slots for such risky and often 1 shot actions.


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

mmmm remembering 4 autocannons in a havoc squad with tank hunter rules... strength 8 - 8 shots - and in 4th it was easy to kill vehicles! used to be fun!


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## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

I do believe that light vehicles going up against this would be thoroughly screwed, as my experience points this way from a single Reaper cannon. If I feel up to spending the cash I might invest in this idea sometime.


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## Truthteller (Sep 2, 2009)

FWIW I ran a Havoc squad last year that had 2 ACs and 2MLs plus 3 ablative marines. I also gave it IoCG. That came in at 195 points. It made back its points cost most of the time. Light vehicles hate this set up and so do MCs. The extra marines mean you can keep shooting whilst taking hits and the IoCG stops you running off when a couple die. 

I don't see the point in adding a rhino to the squad. If they are in a rhino they aren't shooting and that's letting your opponent off. 

They do need other heavies with lascannon type weapons to support them. I ran 3 Obis in one unit and a Pred with T-linked Las turret (no sponsons). 

The downside is that once you've got that, a DP with Lash to set up targets and 3 lots of troops, there's no room for the frilly stuff like Raptors, Chosen and Termies. 

Hope that helps
TT


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

Even one squad of havocs with 4 autocannons will shit all over a rhino/rhino equivilant heavy army. "Oh look. All your rides just got face-molested. Have fun walking to my force!" :biggrin:


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

Wraithian said:


> Even one squad of havocs with 4 autocannons will shit all over a rhino/rhino equivilant heavy army. "Oh look. All your rides just got face-molested. Have fun walking to my force!" :biggrin:


Unless they travel behind a landraider


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