# Its just a hobby, why all the drama!



## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

I was just flicking through the thread on about Gw bringing out hardback codex's and man do people like to piss and moan about Gw, the guys just can't win.

whenever they do anything there is endless hissy fits, forums are filled with whiny outbursts that make people sound like 5 year old's that just had their sweets taken away (a bit like me right now).

If you hate GW so much why do you still buy the product or play the game,
their not holding a gun to your head. your life doesn't depend on it.
your free to leave whenever you wish.

its a hobby, something to past the time, a bit of fun, why all the drama.:ireful2:


My question in short is 


misinformed said:


> "Why do gamers whine so adamantly about the games they claim to enjoy?"


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

You've got a point, GW make a brilliant load of products and some people don't give them the respect they deserve...

I actually think hardback codexes would be cool. Since they're getting bigger and the spines are getting weaker...


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## misinformed (Mar 29, 2010)

If it wasn't for your current rep, I would think you were trolling. However, remember that when people are in forums they are 500% more whiny/jerks/etc.

Also, it is an expensive hobby. As such, slight changes may cause additional costs, in order to update your army with the current codex (let alone time). The hardcopy is just an increase expense (and I suppose weight), so maybe they are QQ'ing more than they need to, but frankly, let them vent! Better online here where we can choose to ignore them. 

Just remember, the best ways to mess with somebody is with their time or their money! Just my thoughts on the matter.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

Jimmygunn: :goodpost:

Although that may seem like a rant, I agree with you totally. If you think that the Games Workshop prices are too expensive, why complain? Just hop over to Wayland Games, Gifts for Geeks, etc, that offer discounts on the original price.

Simples. *Squeak*

Bane of Kings Out


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## Whitehorn (Dec 17, 2009)

How's the weather?


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

maybe you should look at why people whine
do we need hardback books and an extra £5 slapped on top of £20 books just to find it unuseable until an FAQ is released making the codex pretty worthless?-no fucking way

the reason people get hissy fits whenever GW does something is because whenever GW does something its done badly, is simply wrong or its utterly pointless, if they consistently did things right people wouldn't moan would they, fucking duuh.


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## misinformed (Mar 29, 2010)

Stella Cadente said:


> maybe you should look at why people whine
> do we need hardback books and an extra £5 slapped on top of £20 books just to find it unuseable until an FAQ is released making the codex pretty worthless?-no fucking way
> 
> the reason people get hissy fits whenever GW does something is because whenever GW does something its done badly, is simply wrong or its utterly pointless, if they consistently did things right people wouldn't moan would they, fucking duuh.


Oh, they would moan. They will always moan! Maybe not as loudly. My solution is simple. Increase the costs so that nobody could afford it anymore. Everybody quits and moaning ceases.


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## Ultra111 (Jul 9, 2009)

If GW didn't make things cost so much I doubt they would get as much stick as they do really. I don't think the models cost too much to be honest. Seeing as I only buy 2 box sets a month on average it isn't really any more than me spending money or something like a gym membership or a slot in a squash court for an hour a week. 

THey make some fantastic models, which is why I am a part of this hobby in the first place. Plus the price is reduced if you buy of another website like maelstrom.

Plus hardback could come in handy as the codex's seem to fall apart after a while, maybe that would make them stronger.


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

Marneus Calgar said:


> I actually think hardback codexes would be cool. Since they're getting bigger and the spines are getting weaker...


I agree



misinformed said:


> If it wasn't for your current rep, I would think you were trolling.


Its a rant, not trolling,



Bane_of_Kings said:


> Jimmygunn: :goodpost:
> 
> Although that may seem like a rant, I agree with you totally. If you think that the Games Workshop prices are too expensive, why complain? Just hop over to Wayland Games, Gifts for Geeks, etc, that offer discounts on the original price.


20% discount sounds good



Whitehorn said:


> How's the weather?


Raining again




Stella Cadente said:


> maybe you should look at why people whine
> do we need hardback books and an extra £5 slapped on top of £20 books just to find it unuseable until an FAQ is released making the codex pretty worthless?-no fucking way
> 
> the reason people get hissy fits whenever GW does something is because whenever GW does something its done badly, is simply wrong or its utterly pointless, if they consistently did things right people wouldn't moan would they, fucking duuh.


you moan about everything anyway, you don't even need a reason, fucking duuh


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

misinformed said:


> My solution is simple. Increase the costs so that nobody could afford it anymore.


I think thats GW's solution as well, strange solution for them to chose though, but its the one they are going with.


misinformed said:


> Everybody quits and moaning ceases.


and all the other companies get all the money for there cheaper and equal/better quality products, win-win.


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## TheAbominableDan (Sep 16, 2010)

You're absolutely right, if people don't like it they can not buy it. Price raises are a pain but if people can't handle it then they should probably assess weather or not they actually want to be involved with the hobby.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

The whole point is that it is a game, so there is a large bias towards conflict rather than consensus reasoning. I suspect that the threads about hard-cover books and pricing of colour printing are mostly filled with people who play rather than those who purely paint or write.

Also, it is human nature to rant about things that are wrong but be quietly content about things that are right, so the only time a defence of GW is likely to rise is in response to drama about how they are the blackest evil of the gaming world.

Notwithstanding that, speaking as a person who loves a good debate I could do with fewer personal attacks and more logic.


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## misinformed (Mar 29, 2010)

TheAbominableDan said:


> You're absolutely right, if people don't like it they can not buy it. Price raises are a pain but if people can't handle it then they should probably assess weather or not they actually want to be involved with the hobby.


Couldn't agree more. Frankly, I hope that my LGS increases the prices to the point that the parking lot is filled with 2011 Bentleys and everybody inside is wearing polo shirts. That's why I hand sculpt all of my models out of platinum and paint them with dyes made from endangered or extinct berries.

EDIT: This personal attack dedicated to Dave T Hobbit.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

no matter what people are gonna piss and moan its just what people are good at. I'm not too bothered by the codex change to hard cover (a lil upset at the cost of the new WH rule book but it seems like its a much longer read than before) It kinda shows that GW wants put out a quality product.Look if your gonna spend 30 to 50 bucks on 5 to 10 plastik army men you can at least shell out a few extra ona book. Besides most gaming books cost around that price anyway. But im not tring to rant my only complaint is when GW ignores fans of other armies in the game and just take forever to update a codex. Really how many damn SM codexes do we need look how long they took on DE. I wouldn't be suprised if the reasonable marines wound up with codex.


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> Notwithstanding that, speaking as a person who loves a good debate I could do with fewer personal attacks and more logic.


did I personally attack anyone?:dunno:


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## misinformed (Mar 29, 2010)

I think this thread could easily turn from "Why are people whining so much about the hardback?" to "Are you bothered by the increase in cost for hardback?" which there is obviously the other thread. Basically, people are going to defend the whining by saying that they don't like the increase, while the opposing side is going to say they don't understand why it is such a big deal.

Just food for thought, and hopefully we can stay closer to the "Why do gamers whine so adamantly about the games they claim to enjoy?"


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## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

jimmy gunn said:


> whenever they do anything there is endless hissy fits, forums are filled with whiny outbursts that make people sound like 5 year old's that just had their sweets taken away (a bit like me right now).


You've been on the internet before, right? :grin:

A third of what's posted you can dismiss as nonsense. Another third is from people peripherally interested in the game, kids, or trolls. The last third (if you're lucky) can be considered rational mature conversation. 

Also, it's known that GW reads these kind of forums to check for copyright violations, etc. So people think that if they piss and moan about the issue of the day, GW is going to see it and listen. Sorry to say, GW doesn't make business decisions based on internet trolling. Go to a Hobby Center and have a chat with the manager, and that's feedback. But most of these people probably aren't buying product or doing serious gaming to begin with.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

ohiocat110 said:


> You've been on the internet before, right? :grin:
> 
> A third of what's posted you can dismiss as nonsense. Another third is from people peripherally interested in the game, kids, or trolls. The last third (if you're lucky) can be considered rational mature conversation.
> 
> Also, it's known that GW reads these kind of forums to check for copyright violations, etc. So people think that if they piss and moan about the issue of the day, GW is going to see it and listen. Sorry to say, GW doesn't make business decisions based on internet trolling. Go to a Hobby Center and have a chat with the manager, and that's feedback. But most of these people probably aren't buying product or doing serious gaming to begin with.


Good point i might add... Im sure that GW takes a lil bit of this stuff in consideration but for the most part dimisses most stuff. You have to also remember that when GW puts a price on something its not just paying for resources to produce the product but also they have make a profit as well. GW prices will always be high but they do put out a good high quality product. I haven't seen many other companies on par with GW as for quality. Not only this but as far as my expeirence goes they seem to take good care of there customers. When they sale a defected product they always see to not only replace said product but at the same time they tend to even go a lil further. For example once they sold me a hive tyrant with 2 right legs and instead of replacing the leg they just sent a whole new tyrant and rplaced the leg. Ive had them send me an extra box of pink horrors and not send me part of my order. Most companies will make you send back the extra product in exchange for the product you origianally ordered instead they let me keep it. 

I guess what im saying hey i know i gripe along with everyone else but so far GW has made me happy and a lil price increase here and there isnt trully gonna deter me. My only true complaint is I want a new sisters codex damn it! and i want it now


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

People complain. It's what they do.

People complain about the prices, the hardback dex, the quality of the paperback dex, the rules, the codex changes made since the last codex, etc.

Then other people complain about the people who are complaining about the prices, the hardback dex, etc.


It's all part of life, and is actually pretty funny. I find it entertaining to watch it go round and round.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

I reserve the right to complain about any company that charges Australian, New Zealand and Canadian customers an extra 50-80% for it's products for absolutely no reason. 

This is a discussion forum, and I know it might shock some of you, but sometimes people have negative opinions of things... *gasp*. What pisses me off is that whenever someone criticizes something GW does they are immediately labeled 'whiners' by the majority of hobbyists, who seem to think that GW has in fact descended from the heavens and is incapable of doing anything wrong. 

If you just want to hear about how awesome GW is, and how awesome all their models and fluff are, and how awesome and fair their prices are, why bother coming on a discussion site? Just go 'round to your local GW and talk to the staff.

I can like the product without liking the company selling it.





There you go Uber, I'm complaining about the complainers, complaining about the complainers.


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Marneus Calgar said:


> You've got a point, GW make a brilliant load of products and some people don't give them the respect they deserve...
> 
> I actually think hardback codexes would be cool. Since they're getting bigger and the spines are getting weaker...


Ya i LOVE the idea of hardcover codex's! shame my blood angels, tyranid,skaven and vampire counts are so flimsy!


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> There you go Uber, I'm complaining about the complainers, complaining about the complainers.


I know right? It really is funny when you stop to think about it. :laugh:

But your point is well taken. I'd be upset if too I had to pay a 50-80% mark up. What's shipping rate for the online 20% off stores? I know the ones in the U.S. often give you shipping free (within the U.S.) if you order $100.00 or more worth of product.

Do you guys have anything like that? 

What I do with my gaming group is when one of us wants to make an order we tell the others. One person getting a box here, another 2 boxes there, and you've reached the $100.00 no problem. Then we all get 20% off and free shipping.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Hardback army books? I can see the reasoning. I've never personally had a Codex fall apart, but then I'm ever so slightly OC about caring for books. The main rulebooks I've had fall apart, and everyone seemed happier when those came into hardback...

In regards to the price rise: when I was 10, a mars bar cost me 12p. I'd buy one (or an equivalent) each week. Now they cost me 60-70p. They haven't changed over the years, they're pretty much identical. 
When I was 10, I could buy a box of clanrats for a fiver. Now they cost me £20. They _have_ changed and improved over the years. I will buy something equivalent to them, usually once a month. In comparison to my chocolate, the %rise in cost is much less. Neither my unit nor my chocolate is a necessity, I choose to buy them. 

So, my point here? It's a hobby, and I choose to do it. If the price changes got to me so much, I wouldn't buy anything. If they changed my army to the extent that I didn't like it any more, I'd find people who'd play a previous edition with me that I did like. It's a game, and I _choose_ to do it. Yes, I'll occasionally bitch and moan - we all do about something or other, but price rises are a universal thing, not just limited to GW and their shops. I wish more people would look at the world in general, rather than just one little part of it...


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> Jimmygunn: :goodpost:
> 
> Although that may seem like a rant, I agree with you totally. If you think that the Games Workshop prices are too expensive, why complain? Just hop over to Wayland Games, Gifts for Geeks, etc, that offer discounts on the original price.
> 
> ...


HAVING to buy from a discounter is the dumbest reasoning I have heard for it being ok for them to increase the price. I hope you know one of the fastest markets that is dying in the US, and I would dare say EU is the gaming store and its because people feel the needs to buy online vs their FLGS.



Whitehorn said:


> How's the weather?


Troll much?



Witch King of Angmar said:


> Ya i LOVE the idea of hardcover codex's! shame my blood angels, tyranid,skaven and vampire counts are so flimsy!


I am glad you do but I dislike the idea of being forced to spend more on a codex then I used to on a rulebook. Here is a novel idea. Make smaller rulebooks with just *gasp* rules in it, make them cost 10-15 bucks, like they used to, and make it so after a set period you just reprint the thing with updated rules in them. It is getting to a point where they is way to much fucking fluff in them and TBH they could scale back on the pictures as well. If I wanted a story book I would go to the black library.

One reason people bitch is because GW has horrible ethics in the gaming industry, they do not support a 3 tier distribution chain like almost every other company, they have SHITTY profit margin, and instead of spending money coming out with cool shit for us, waste their fucking time suing penny annie websites and webstores.

Who remembers paying 40 for a landraider mk2? I do! I know the price of oil has went up but from 40 to what 65 now? In 10 years? Inflation is one thing, but for fucks sake.

So my options now are to buy an over expensive book filled with bullshit I don't care about or sell off my Armies at a mints loss. How is it other model companies like Manic can offer things so cheaply but GW assrapes you, and they wonder why its getting harder and harder to get new players to play the game.

So instead of getting on your box and asking why are we complaining because we have to spend more money, open your eyes and think about it for a moment, it should become apparent.


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> So instead of getting on your box and asking why are we complaining because we have to spend more money, open your eyes and think about it for a moment, it should become apparent.


I did think about it and still don't worry about spending an extra £4-5 for something that will last me a life time.

how much enjoyment do you get £'s to hour's wise out of a dvd £10-15 for 2-4hours or a trip to the cinema £20-30 for 3-5hours.

and then a box of models £55 BR and a rulebook (£17.50 ork, £18 SM) endless hours, 

yea its expensive but when you look at how much use you will get from your rulebook/models.
The use well out weights the cost.

plus how many of you spend £6.50 on a pack of smokes that will kill you or £3.50 on your starbucks that's gone in 5 minutes.

sorry if some of you think i'm being arsey but I just don't get why some people slag off GW at every opportunity but still spend their "hard earned cash" on their product.

you wanted logic there it is £ to hours games workshop is good value.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

It does not last a lifetime. It lasts until the next time they increase the price and put a new book out.


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> It does not last a lifetime. It lasts until the next time they increase the price and put a new book out.


The book will last a life time and you can play with the rules in that book if your gaming buddies want to have a retro game.

but still £'s to Hours of use, top value.:wink:


And if its gets to the point where there updated as often as necrons you'll more than get your moneys worth:laugh:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Lets all say it together "hobby's are not cheap" 
but its cheaper than golf, its cheaper than fishing, its cheaper than home cinema, its cheaper than playstation/xbox, is cheaper than sugar craft, my wife can get through an £8 paperback in a week thats £32-£40 a month on fangbanger books, its cheaper than restoring old cars, photography blah blah.

I suppose its how you approach a hobby thats important,personally when i think about starting a hobby i explore the likely cost and weigh up what its gonna cost to buy everything im gonna need and add some extra costs for inflation and prices rises or stuff i didnt know about, most if not all of you will have got into the hobby by being exposed to a store, the store's and websites clearly show the likely costs involved, none of us were hoodwinked into the hobby. 
Part of the problem with people in the GW hobby is they dont buy what they "need" they buy what they "want", they get tempted to collect models they wont use or books they wont use to collect an army,they dont paint the model they have before buying more, many of you reading this will have many many unfinished projects, i wouldnt buy a new fishing reel and leave it in its box or a shiny £40 ps3 game and never put it in the machine, but many of us have hundreds of ££££ worth of GW merchandise in our homes untouched, unassembled or unpainted and yet happily complain the hobby costs too much.

Honestly do a quick burst of maths and add up what you have unfinished, i bet i have near on a £700 in just FW models of my own collection still in bags or part started, that not even including the GW stuff sat in my loft and crazy thing is i know that its madness but i still do it.


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

djinn24 said:


> How is it other model companies like Manic can offer things so cheaply but GW assrapes you


I agree it is frustrating to have the prices raised on you no matter how logical the explanations might be (full color hard back dex, amazing quality models, etc.), but when it really comes down to it I think professional sports (in the U.S. anyway) are a good comparison.

Take professional American rules football for example. There have been numerous attempts throughout the years to compete against the NFL and each time they end up crashing in dismal failure. Why?

Three reasons...

(1) The NFL offers the best of the best in talent (they do this of course by paying their players the most money -- so if you're the best and can get that kind of money you'll chose it over another league)

(2) The majority of people want to see the best (which is evidenced by point 3)

(3) People are willing to pay the prices they charge to go to a game in a stadium, buy apparel, etc. and so the NFL can continue to charge what they charge. Clearly they get money from advertisers, but they also get a fair sum from game attendance, apparel, etc. 


I think it's the same here with GW. Both the NFL and 40K are non necessity items, both are pass times, and both can be expensive hobbies to be a part of. As long as people are willing to pay they'll keep charging what they charge.

For the rest of us who are struggling to keep up with the rising costs we have to adapt. 

As someone not brimming with money myself, I have to settle for less than I'd like to. I would love to see live NFL games and even have season tickets, but there's no financial way I can do that. 

I've made peace with that, and am good now with just watching whatever games they put on TV for free. 

In the same way I have to go the cheap rout to play 40K. 


I wish I could afford to buy from my FLGS, but for me to even get anything I have to save for it. I am in no way complaining as it was fully our choice to raise a family of 6 on one salary. Part of the reality of that however, is that I have to be thrifty.

I would love to go to a live NFL game, and I would actually love to support my FLGS, but unfortunately I can no longer afford to do that. Soon, in reality, I'll only be able to play the armies I have, save for new codexes and rules additions, and keep my eyes out for only the most amazing deals, but until then I can still afford every once and a while to get something new with the 20% discount offered by the online stores.


It is not the FLGS fault GW keeps raising the prices, and it isn't our fault either. 

Both the stores and the consumers have to figure out how we're going to adapt. As with the NFL, some will grumble and grudgingly pay the increase, and some will no longer go to live games instead watch from home. With 40K, some stores will/have adapted to do online sales where they sell GW product at a 20% discount, and some consumers have adapted to now buy from those stores so they can continue to play the game.


I too am saddened by the loss of FLGS. We just lost an amazing one in our area called Z-Games within the past year that will be sorely missed. Again, it makes me sad, just as much as the day I have to "close down" being able to play the game because I can no longer afford it. That being said though, what can you do?

We're but a few people in a sea of people. Apparently enough of those people, as with the NFL, can apparently afford the price increases (or at least it seems that way as whenever I watch a televised game the NFL stadium seems full. As with the NFL, the day people stop paying is the exact day the NFL or GW start making some hard decisions. 

People get fired, those that remain get paid less, product mark up & profit margins become less, and the prices of things start coming down. If not, they go out of business and someone else starts a new league/game system that is priced to the level where people can/will pay.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

The only reason I'm slightly serious about it is because a lot of my money has gone into this and is never going to come back:biggrin:


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

jimmy gunn said:


> how much enjoyment do you get £'s to hour's wise out of a dvd £10-15 for 2-4hours or a trip to the cinema £20-30 for 3-5hours.


where the fuck you buying your DVD's and cinema tickets from?, I paid £5 for a bridge too far and have watched it hundreds of times it feels like, and I get enjoyment each time, seems like better value than a box of models for £55 that I have to take off the board in less time than the movie and can only play with every 2 weeks if I'm lucky, and not in a GW since there either never open or just don't like players with more experience than the shop managers.


jimmy gunn said:


> The book will last a life time


thats the funniest pile of bullshit I have ever heard, GW books lasting a lifetime, good one, my space marine codex had 4 pages fall out after 1 week of light use and the plastic coatings peeling off all over the place, I dare not pick it up.

cmpare that to my Iron ivan WWII rulebook which I have had for years and has seen more use than my whore of a mom and is only held together by staples and is still in pretty darn good condition and that further reinforces the pile size of shit from this bull


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I just relized I am sounding more and more like Stella.... fucking shoot me.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

djinn24 said:


> I just relized I am sounding more and more like Stella.... fucking shoot me.


Have you developed his uncanny skill of buying only faulty goods from GW ?


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> where the fuck you buying your DVD's and cinema tickets from?,


HMV online dvd prices. (cost even more if you buy them in a store.)

Harry Potter & The Deathly Hallows: Part DVD £10.99 

Paranormal Activity 2 DVD £12.99 

Social Network dvd £12.99

cinema tickets for two people comes to £26.50 or £32.80 for crappy 3D without the cost of drinks and sweets
http://www.myvue.com/cinemas/facilities_detail.asp?SessionID=&cn=1&ci=33&ln=1&did=2230



Stella Cadente said:


> thats the funniest pile of bullshit I have ever heard,


obviously never heard yourself speak.:laugh:


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

I try to paint my models well enough where if I am ever soon to be homeless then Maybe I can sell my army for 3x the price or so. 

take that statement lightly, I dont intend on being homeless or ever seling my army, but I like the thought of if I had to I could make more money out of it then what I put in.

The point about hobbies whoever mentioned it is that most hobbies are expensive. If this is the one you enjoy then enjoy it. All my friends who's hobby is smokin weed are all broke as fuck haha, 

I think they meant books like novel books, but either way I've never seen a codex fall apart like that stella. I mean I believe you but I certainly dont think its a common thing.


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## Beezy (Jan 25, 2011)

As somebody new to the hobby I have to say it is expensive and the cost can be daunting for a new player. I was lucky enough that my friends who got me into the hobby also gave me a bunch of models that they never used (some of them still in the box, which I guess kinda reinforces the point somebody else made about people buying excess GW products). 

Without their generous help It would have been a lot harder for me to begin playing 40K, after buying the codex and rulebook, and considering the potential cost of an IG army, the prices do add up quickly.


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## .Kevin. (Jan 10, 2011)

I agree, I fuckin hate the whiners on forums half the time they are little pussies irl aswell so they wouldn't even complain if you went up to them and stepped on their army.


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## Flindo (Oct 30, 2010)

at the end of the day, its really just plastic minatures moving across a table, some people need to grow up and take a fun game less seriously.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

Flindo said:


> at the end of the day, its really just plastic minatures moving across a table, some people need to grow up and take a fun game less seriously.


Just at the end of the day? ha j/k

when my templars are on the table they are my sons god dammit! thats my geneseed we're talking about. :mrgreen:


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

.Kevin. said:


> I agree, I fuckin hate the whiners on forums half the time they are little pussies irl aswell so they wouldn't even complain if you went up to them and stepped on their army.


Hmm care to define what you think a "whiner" is?


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

.Kevin. said:


> I agree, I fuckin hate the whiners on forums half the time they are little pussies irl aswell so they wouldn't even complain if you went up to them and stepped on their army.


yeah because irl, your seventeen feet tall, and nobody gives you shit, right?


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Are you 100 dollar serious?


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> Are you 100 dollar serious?


Who would that be? Djinn, you seem to have a real problem detecting my sarcasm dude


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

For once I was not talking to you


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## DrinCalhar (Jul 10, 2010)

I have to say I love GW. They know we are a materialistic culture. Props to them I will still buy stuff from them or FW.


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## .Kevin. (Jan 10, 2011)

djinn24 said:


> Hmm care to define what you think a "whiner" is?


People who don't live and let live.

Basically people who complain about shit that is pointless but they just have to be heard because it bugs them.

Note it takes intelligence when people are being whiners and making a valid argument.

Whiners to me are also - I DON'T LIKE IT NO ONE ELSE SHOULD.

I"ll even go into context.

You are at work - and asked to perform a task that you believe is shitty, sure it might suck and you throw out the odd shit man this blows to your comrades, but when you perform the task and STILL complain til it is done all your coworkers will count you as a whiner because you don't shut up about it or do anything about it and guess what in the end you still do the shit you decided to cry about so much.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Ahh fair nuff.


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## .Kevin. (Jan 10, 2011)

djinn24 said:


> Ahh fair nuff.


I figured


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

I think a lot of the whining comes down to misconceptions regarding the pricing of the product.

my friends and I checked out a model shop in town, and were shocked at the prices, for a part to a model jet, a resin piece for the instrument panel in the cockpit, they wanted around $20 us. the equivalent piece if you were to but it separately for 40k would run around $5 us. accessories for the models often were priced higher than the models, the cheapest of which were around $40 us

Comparativly GW is somewhat inexpensive, especially when quality is factored in, both in detail, and lack of defects/warping.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> Hmm care to define what you think a "whiner" is?


A whiner is anyone who expresses any negative opinion of GW or any of it's products. 

'Cause we all know GW is, OMG, absolutely awesome and is, in fact, the greatest company in the world, founded by Jesus Christ himself. People who have an issues with GW's prices & business strategy obviously don't understand that GW *is a business*, and as such needs to use Rockefeller-style business strategies, that absolutely benefit the consumer and ensures that they never, ever pay ridiculously high prices.

GW also produces the greatest miniature kits in the modeling world, without exception. The Stormraven is, of course, the greatest plastic kit known to man.

GW can never do anything wrong. Ever.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> Notwithstanding that, speaking as a person who loves a good debate I could do with fewer personal attacks and more logic.





jimmy gunn said:


> did I personally attack anyone?:dunno:


Not that I have noticed.

My point was that, whilst drama is natural, I would prefer if complaints about GW (or anything else) were reasoned explanations rather than "{INSERT GW STAFFER} is the cause of all problems and is probably sitting at home right now laughing at how he ruined our game."


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## Abomination (Jul 6, 2008)

Most of the whining is unnecessary. GW makes some dam fine products. The plastic kits they pump out nowadays are amazing and the volume of products they release is pretty sweet too. Even the rules are actually fine. The rules only fail to work when people start acting like dicks. Just have a roll-off, get back to the game and stop crying and remember Fantasy/40,000 are about having fun first, winning and losing should come second if your playing the game in the spirit it was intended to be played in. Even the prices are fine, it's not GW fault if you think it's expensive, it's your fault for not getting your finances together. Pretty much all the complaining is just people throwing their toys out of the pram because they can't DWI. Maybe people need to stop blaming everyone else and look at themselves.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Stella said:


> thats the funniest pile of bullshit I have ever heard, GW books lasting a lifetime, good one, my space marine codex had 4 pages fall out after 1 week of light use and the plastic coatings peeling off all over the place, I dare not pick it up.


I dread to think what you qualify as 'light use'. I've never had that happen to any of my codecii, even the ones I've read and used every weekend for years.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

SilverTabby said:


> I dread to think what you qualify as 'light use'. I've never had that happen to any of my codecii, even the ones I've read and used every weekend for years.


funny you say that, as my old blood angels codex went into the field with me, my platoon sergeant found it fascinating, and my chaos codex survived a deployment, without steps to protect either.


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

SilverTabby said:


> I dread to think what you qualify as 'light use'. I've never had that happen to any of my codecii, even the ones I've read and used every weekend for years.


I've only ever had problems with one codex, the SM 4th ed codex about which I understood from my FLGS owner there were printing problems with that dex. Other than that, I still have fully functioning dex's all the way back to 2nd ed when I started. 

The 4th ed marine dex is still in tact as well, but only because I treated it with the care of a newborn baby or highly unstable explosive.


While I don't think every model from GW is equal as there are some sculpts I really don't prefer (whether it be the style, overall look, feel, etc.)... I would say that GW always strives for greater and greater quality. All anyone needs do to see that, is take a look at GW's Rogue Trader era models, codex art, paint jobs, etc. -vs- the ones they produce today. 


Do we all wish we could get more for less? Sure. Who doesn't wish that? Do we have any control over that? No. We're stuck in a world where there is very little we can control.

We can't control GW prices.

We can't control people complaining about GW prices.

We can't control people complaining about people complaining about GW prices.


...Our only choice is to complain, get frustrated, argue adnozium, etc. about that which we can not control, or be ok with it and move on. In the end I find it makes little difference what I wan't, as the world seems to have very little interest in bending to my likes and dislikes. I often choose to complain at first, only to be reminded of this fact, and then later choose to move on.


In the end, the cycle of complain + complain about those complaining, will never end. This thread will die, another will start, and the cycle will continue.

For me, I choose to laugh at the futility of it all. After all, laughter is more enjoyable than futility and frustration. Those are my two cents anyway. 





.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

One a bright note, because of the prices of the kits I have taken more time putting them together now and overall they do look better.

Also, other then the price, because people do bring up valid points on the dex, honestly I am tired of lugging a fucking library in my travel case when I go somewhere. That was why I LOVED the mini rulepook, I just wish they would do it with the codexes as well. Hell package them in with the Army deals, I bet they would sell more.


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> One a bright note, because of the prices of the kits I have taken more time putting them together now and overall they do look better.
> 
> Also, other then the price, because people do bring up valid points on the dex, honestly I am tired of lugging a fucking library in my travel case when I go somewhere. That was why I LOVED the mini rulepook, I just wish they would do it with the codexes as well. Hell package them in with the Army deals, I bet they would sell more.


I like the mini dex idea it prolly whould sell more as well and you know people wanna buy the reg. codex too just for the matireal.

My dexes which i own almost all of them just to read have been able to stay in pretty good condition even though my 3 yr old loves to look at the pictures. His fav is the daemons book and today i let him DOW2 and now his fave CSM nurgle.but anyway back on the minidex thing its kinda llike what i preached a while back about rivateer press. all the rules are in the rulebook but each model comes witha stat/rules card and the faction book is just simply bathroom reading material.


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## vulcan539 (May 17, 2010)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I reserve the right to complain about any company that charges Australian, New Zealand and Canadian customers an extra 50-80% for it's products for absolutely no reason


Right on the money CRCL


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

SilverTabby said:


> I dread to think what you qualify as 'light use'. I've never had that happen to any of my codecii, even the ones I've read and used every weekend for years.


how about you go find one of the many threads where the large majority of posters on this forum complained about the marine codex falling apart in very short periods of time.

no doubt of course you won't either bother or just won't find it, and anyone who did post negative comments in it would deny ever saying them just to disagree with me or you'd say they prove nothing


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> how about you go find one of the many threads where the large majority of posters on this forum complained about the marine codex falling apart in very short periods of time.


Heck, what do people do when they manage to get it fall apart? :scratchhead: 

I have had my own since release, and the fact is, that it has stayed in better shape than many of my other, more recently bought, codexes, even though I use it a lot more, than say, the Codex: Tau (the first one) which I have not used in a single game, only read the fluff a few times... Xeno crap.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> how about you go find one of the many threads where the large majority of posters on this forum complained about the marine codex falling apart in very short periods of time.
> 
> no doubt of course you won't either bother or just won't find it, and anyone who did post negative comments in it would deny ever saying them just to disagree with me or you'd say they prove nothing


I have owned the SM Codex since it came out. I've used it a fair bit too. No problems. And "the majority of posters" on this forum that complained equals to what - 30, 40 people, tops? Out of the tens of thousands who bought the codex and regularly use it? 

I've never had a problem with my books, so I ask again - what do you do with them that breaks them so swiftly? As, in the above comment, you didn't answer the question, you just said that you know a lot of other people who also complained, and then went on to insult me quite needlessly to cover your lack of an actual answer.

Note that I'm not saying yours didn't fall apart, or that you are lying or that these other people are lying.


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## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

jimmy gunn said:


> "Why do gamers whine so adamantly about the games they claim to enjoy?"


Lets take football for example. People like to say things like "what and idiot", "Offside ref!" and "f#@king.......BOOO!!!!!" And not "well i don't care who wins this game as everyone is great and the sport wins" Hlaf the fun is to complain about it.


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

djinn24 said:


> Also, other then the price, because people do bring up valid points on the dex, honestly I am tired of lugging a @#!*% library in my travel case when I go somewhere. That was why I LOVED the mini rulepook, I just wish they would do it with the codexes as well. @#!*% package them in with the Army deals, I bet they would sell more.


Personally I love the 4th & 5th ed mini-rulebooks. I wonder if GW would do something like that with and the army specific Battleforce boxed sets. Say with the Blood Angels Battleforce boxed set. Like Black Reach, I think it would be cool if you could get a selection of army specific models and a mini-codex that just has what you need to play the game.

The 3rd ed dex's were like this. Due to the speed with which they needed to get them all out they contained very little fluff, and primarily just what you needed to play the game. However, the complaint at the time was that people missed the fluff of 2nd edition. As a result, 4th edition saw a return to the fluff+game necessary info in the codexes.

What you're proposing seems like it would be the best of both worlds. A codex that has all the cool fluff + a mini dex that you can take to game with.

Doing this with the BBB and the Macragge or Black Reach boxed sets seems like it worked well for both GW and the consumer. It seems reasonable that the same might happen with Battleforce boxed sets and mini-dex's. 

Personally, I'd love it if you could buy the mini-dex or mini-BBB, separately, but I understand why they combine them (i.e. more people likely to spend the money and either get the big BBB or the mini + models). 

Who knows... maybe something to look forward to with 6th ed?


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I reserve the right to complain about any company that charges Australian, New Zealand and Canadian customers an extra 50-80% for it's products for absolutely no reason.


What he said. Not to mention, if you think someone is complaining to much, add them to your ignore list. Or don't read the thread.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Stella Cadente said:


> how about you go find one of the many threads where the large majority of posters on this forum complained about the marine codex falling apart in very short periods of time.


I remember that Thread, and I think that with the first lot of SM Codexes (?) they bound the glue was not up to specification. Had something to do with the fact the Codex had more pages (it is quite a large Codex) and they didn't allow for that when binding them....something like that anyway.

My Codex also fell apart as I was reading it for the first time (happened to quite a few that were bought from my LGS and GW) but I just went and had it ring-bound...makes it so much easier to read, so I went and had all my Codex done.


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

jaws900 said:


> Lets take football for example. People like to say things like "what and idiot", "Offside ref!" and "f#@king.......BOOO!!!!!" And not "well i don't care who wins this game as everyone is great and the sport wins" Hlaf the fun is to complain about it.


I don't see the comparison, watching football and shouting at the tv like a prat is nothing like saying GW bum raped you out of a few quid when you chose to buy that model or moaning that a certain sky bus looks crap.



Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> What he said. Not to mention, if you think someone is complaining to much, add them to your ignore list. Or don't read the thread.


how do you know which threads are going to be full of moaning do they come with a warning sign "grumpy old farts only":laugh:


its not all the moaning that is a tad annoying, it comments like.

"great another reason to slap £5 on it"

"the cover art is crap and the title is crap"

"looks like a flying fucking bus"

With no elaboration, its like they have turrets and just blurt it out.



Edit; I like a good moan and mostly moan about how stupid some people can be.
And lets face it, if your constantly moaning that something you dont need is too expensive and you still go out and buy it, your pretty stupid.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

But that isn't whining thats complaining which are actually fairly differant things. I'm allowed to think the stormraven (your flying bus) is crap. true its annoying and rude when people do it.

But how much do you wan't? Your on an internet forum, of course they're going to be people flexing their stupid muscles and idiot reflexes, but what can you do?


And about codices falling apart, both my Tau, and Codex CSM have had pages falling out. It has been so bad for my C:CSM that I am actually on my third store bought copy. But now I have scanned it and just print a page if I need it. No fucking way im going to risk using it and have to drop another $40 on another.


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

when complaining becomes whining:

When your only purpose is to complain without contemplating how you can improve whatever it is you're complaining about. This is especially true when somebody complains about the same thing over and over again. It gets old fast and people label that person a whiner. 

I once had a boss that was particularly gifted with common sense. He always used to tell people not to walk into his office with a problem/complaint that they did not have at least one viable solution for. Smart guy 




Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> But how much do you wan't? Your on an internet forum, of course they're going to be people flexing their stupid muscles and idiot reflexes, but what can you do?
> .


so true its funny:victory:


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## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

As long as the price of the books aren't doubling I'm cool with it.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

I think people bitch too much nowadays because we have an entire fucking generation that was raised being told " Don't hurt other people it is not nice. Little Tommy has feelings and you might have hurt them, now go apologize for being a bully." Fuck Lil Tommy and his pussy feelings. I am an Ironworker and we do four things, we work, we drink, we fuck, and we fight.

Bitchin about shit is just a side effect of pent up rage and hate that I feel toward most humans. Do I think that I am getting fucked by GW high prices? Hell yes. Is it worse than what these corporate bastards of greed are raping me out of ? ( Looking at you BP, Marathon, Sunoco, and all other dog rapers that increase the price of my fuel for shits and giggles or cause the wind blew from the west today instead of the south.) No. It is a hobby for me as well as my Jeeps, my Harley, and all of the other shit that I like to do.

*It is what it IS*


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

OIIIIIIO said:


> I think people bitch too much nowadays because we have an entire fucking generation that was raised being told " Don't hurt other people it is not nice. Little Tommy has feelings and you might have hurt them, now go apologize for being a bully." Fuck Lil Tommy and his pussy feelings.
> *It is what it IS*


Seriously? You blame everyone bitching and complaining, on the "pampered" younger generation? Epic trolling ftw.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

jimmy gunn said:


> I once had a boss that was particularly gifted with common sense. He always used to tell people not to walk into his office with a problem/complaint that they did not have at least one viable solution for. Smart guy
> 
> 
> so true its funny:victory:


I like that, alot.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> how about you go find one of the many threads where the large majority of posters on this forum complained about the marine codex falling apart in very short periods of time.
> 
> no doubt of course you won't either bother or just won't find it, and anyone who did post negative comments in it would deny ever saying them just to disagree with me or you'd say they prove nothing


I wasn't seriously saying that you abused your book, but I think you got a bad print, as my 3e blood angels dex should have been flimsier, as it was stapled together if I remember correctly. my chaos dex should have melted apart as I took it to kuwait during the summer.


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## arlins (Sep 8, 2010)

my SM codex has started to come apart after 7 months, just figured id got a bad batch 
( my orcs , nec,s and IG are fine and older , but not as thick as the SM one )


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

If your codex fell apart after a short time of use its not fit for purpose, the best thing would have been to return it and ask for another copy, if you codex falls apart after several month you need to treat it better, its a glued book which like any other glued book will loose its pages if you bend or stress its spine too much or force it open, if you can see any white cracks on the spine of a glued book its quite possible your gonna loose pages,the spine and the glue are whats holding it together.
I will say that considering that the rule books and codex are used for a table top game a ring binder configuration would be a far more useful format, quite a few cook books my wife has will lie flat on a surface when opened so they can be read without bending the spine and such or having to constantly open and close them. 
I never much liked the glued spined codex, most of the older books were sewn hardbacks when i started the hobby,even the compendiums and expansion books were.
Im glad it looks like they intend to switch back to hard cover army books(Orc army book),slightly more expensive but worth it for the hard cover.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> I will say that considering that the rule books and codex are used for a table top game a ring binder configuration would be a far more useful format, quite a few cook books my wife has will lie flat on a surface when opened so they can be read without bending the spine and such or having to constantly open and close them.


I did that with one of my older 'dexes that started to fall apart. A hole punch, some binder rings, scissors and a spare 10 minutes was all it took. The added bonus is you can take out the fluff/picture pages if you're gonna do some intense gaming to save time finding stuff.


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## unixknight (Jul 26, 2010)

Stella Cadente said:


> the reason people get hissy fits whenever GW does something is because whenever GW does something its done badly, is simply wrong or its utterly pointless, if they consistently did things right people wouldn't moan would they, fucking duuh.


The problem is that whether something GW does is done well or badly is a matter of opinion. You can't please all of the people all of the time. You just can't. It would be great if every single book, model of accessory GW released was awe-inspiring but that's an unrealistic expectation.

(Not picking on you, Stella, it was a point I Wanted to make and you were just the first to mention it in that way. )

Some people have been discussing the relative cost of the books vs. the cost of other, common entertainment expenses like DVDs or movies or whatever. Whether your Warhammer stuff is more cost effective then a dinner and a movie expense depends entirely on how much you play/paint/etc. If my wife and I go out to a dinner and a move it can easily cost $50 U.S. or more. At the same time, she and I are working on a Tomb Kings army together and currently I'm working on a unit of chariots and she's working on a unit of Ushabti. For the cost of the models and paint we get hours and hours of time spent together working on our army plus the enjoyment of the time we play it plus the ability to point to something on our display shelf and say "This is what we worked on. This is a tangible, concrete sign of time we spent together." Can't say that about dinner and a movie. When it's over, it's over. 

So do the chariots and Ushabti collectively cost more than $50? Sure, but the unit cost per hour of fun is much, much lower.

As for hard cover army books... I'm in a "wait and see" mode. The last Army Book I bought was the Vampire Counts book and it started to fall apart immediately. Meanwhile the Bretonnian book I bought years ago is still solid and has been used a LOT more. Will the hard cover Army Books be better? We'll see. If so, the extra cost will be worth it, IMHO.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

search116 said:


> As long as the price of the books aren't doubling I'm cool with it.


But dude they're more than doubling, they're quintupling! My LGS has a 3rd Edition Nid Codex for £5, it's going £25, the games gone to shit, boohoohoo.

As for codices falling apart, eh, I've still got Ravening Hordes and 6th Edition BRB in, if slightly dog-eared, perfect condition, no lost pages.

Same for IA books, right up to Codex Space Marines (got 3 days before put on general sale). General good handling and not yanking around in the back of an army carry case is going to keep them in good nick.



Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> Seriously? You blame everyone bitching and complaining, on the "pampered" younger generation? Epic trolling ftw.


Actually, it's quite a good point. Anyone bitches anywhere in the lines of work of some of the people on this forum, and you're gonna get a bollocking - you don't just annoy yourself, but everyone else. "It's muddy", or "it's cold" are all viable gripes - saying it is what it is if you want. But you just get on with and move on.

The game is no less playable because a few leaves fell out of the binding, and the staff are always helpful when it comes to replacing lost kit - christ, I got a free Predator because my Predator was missing part of the Rhino hull pieces, not just a Rhino which at the time was about £8 cheaper.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

unixknight said:


> The problem is that whether something GW does is done well or badly is a matter of opinion. You can't please all of the people all of the time. You just can't.


true, but you can make choices that would make a wide majority happy and the rest would understand (or at least you'd hope they would, judging by some round here I think not)
WD is a good example, I think its quite widely agreed that it is wank, but I think most would agree it could be good with very little effort as already pointed out in the 6.1 billion topics we have on WD being shit, and those that already enjoy it because they are a little strange would enjoy it more while also making others happy.
doing that you have pleased everyone pretty much, or at least a very VERY large majority while only leaving people who use Jervis Johnson as porn would be unhappy.

another that is widely accepted is that support for specialist games again would be a benefit and would make allot of people who enjoy those games very happy, at the very least allow them to be played in GW stores.

creationg of better thought out campaigns and book supplements, proof readers, play testers, better tournament systems, realistic prices, better in store customer interaction, less emphasis on SPESS MAHREENS, all things that really aren't too difficult to implement and would have nothing but a positive outcome on pretty much the entire GW fanbase, and would bring back fans they have alienated, heck if they did all that I mentioned GW would see my money.

sure those fixes may be a negative to rules abusers who don't want proof readers, powergamers who don't want play testers, tournament players who only play if the word swiss is involved anyway, people who earn £90,000 a day may not like or understand the fact that people who earn less than £500 a month can't afford the models and moan about it and people who are fine with pushy staff ramming marneus calgar up your ass, these things will not please them, but they are the ones I think GW shouldn't be trying to please, because they don't help either.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I did that with one of my older 'dexes that started to fall apart. A hole punch, some binder rings, scissors and a spare 10 minutes was all it took. The added bonus is you can take out the fluff/picture pages if you're gonna do some intense gaming to save time finding stuff.


In Australia you could take your Codex(es) to Officeworks and get them professionally ringbound...costs about $5-6 each.


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## Corporal Chaos (Nov 27, 2007)

+ REP This is a good point. If you do not like it....stop. Go do something you enjoy. I aint going to eat liver just to moan about how much I hate it. I just wont eat liver. I am not going to play a game that I do not enjoy. Or buy things that I do not like. Sculpt your own and write your own rules....:laugh:


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## LKHERO (Nov 24, 2010)

Long answer short:
I bitch and moan about games I enjoy because I want to keep enjoying them.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Stella Cadente said:


> true, but you can make choices that would make a wide majority happy and the rest would understand (or at least you'd hope they would, judging by some round here I think not)


Too bad the internet makes it seem like everybody hates the changes because they tend to be more vocal about it. The games are still selling and GW is doing well, they must be doing SOMETHING right for that to happen. By that regard the majority (maybe not the wide majority) must like their decisions.



> WD is a good example, I think its quite widely agreed that it is wank, but I think most would agree it could be good with very little effort as already pointed out in the 6.1 billion topics we have on WD being shit, and those that already enjoy it because they are a little strange would enjoy it more while also making others happy.
> 
> doing that you have pleased everyone pretty much, or at least a very VERY large majority while only leaving people who use Jervis Johnson as porn would be unhappy.


WD is pretty shitty, can't deny that.



> another that is widely accepted is that support for specialist games again would be a benefit and would make allot of people who enjoy those games very happy, at the very least allow them to be played in GW stores.


But who would it benefit? With GW deciding that they no longer wish to support the game no new expansions are going to be released and therefore little additional revenue from the games will be made. Players get game space in a local GW, but if the locals don't carry the product it offers little chance that people seeing it will buy the product. Carrying those games would restrict space for games that are supported and therefore, potentially, reduce over all sales.



> creationg of better thought out campaigns and book supplements, proof readers, play testers, better tournament systems, realistic prices, better in store customer interaction, less emphasis on SPESS MAHREENS, all things that really aren't too difficult to implement and would have nothing but a positive outcome on pretty much the entire GW fanbase, and would bring back fans they have alienated, heck if they did all that I mentioned GW would see my money.


Most of the things you've listed are easy to implement, and GW has already started on some of them already. The only 2 that would be hard for GW to do is realistic prices and less emphasis on Space Marines.

Realistic Prices are in the eye of the beholder. If GW dropped prices on everything they sold by 25% right now people would be bitching about the price being too high in a year from now. Everyone is always going to want to pay a lesser price for anything and no company could ever lower a price to the point where people would be saying "raise it, I want to pay more."

As for less Space Marines, they are the top selling army so why not exploit that? Space Marines are the biggest draw they have for 40k, asking them to cut back on them is akin to asking them to cut away profits.



> sure those fixes may be a negative to rules abusers who don't want proof readers, powergamers who don't want play testers, tournament players who only play if the word swiss is involved anyway, people who earn £90,000 a day may not like or understand the fact that people who earn less than £500 a month can't afford the models and moan about it and people who are fine with pushy staff ramming marneus calgar up your ass, these things will not please them, but they are the ones I think GW shouldn't be trying to please, because they don't help either.


and after all your suggestions you come out with "Power Gamers are evil people who abuse rules and have a ton of money to buy every army they need."

Well it is nice to know somethings will never change. :laugh:

Even us evil "Power Gamers/Rule Exploiters/Tournament Players" would LOVE to see GW have better proof reading, better play testing, and a decent tournament scene (one that put a point on actually WINNING your match as opposed to kissing ass and having a pretty army) in addition to lowering prices, and having better customer support in stores. I think every player would love that.

Too bad the devil is in the details and thats where most people will never see Eye to Eye.

So, more Drama? opcorn:


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

HOBO said:


> In Australia you could take your Codex(es) to Officeworks and get them professionally ringbound...costs about $5-6 each.


I could, but my way is free and my ass is so tight you could stick coal up there and I'd shit a diamond out.


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Wusword77 said:


> The games are still selling and GW is doing well, they must be doing SOMETHING right for that to happen. By that regard the majority (maybe not the wide majority) must like their decisions.


Or at least are willing to put up with enough to purchase the new products.





Wusword77 said:


> Realistic Prices are in the eye of the beholder. If GW dropped prices on everything they sold by 25% right now people would be @#!*% about the price being too high in a year from now.


Maybe, but in between this year and the next? Whoo Hoo!!!  Shopping at the 20% off online stores would see a 45% drop in price! While I couldn't tell you what I'd do in a years time, I could certainly tell you what I'd do right now if we experienced a drop like that! :grin:





Wusword77 said:


> As for less Space Marines, they are the top selling army so why not exploit that? Space Marines are the biggest draw they have for 40k, asking them to cut back on them is akin to asking them to cut away profits.


I agree. There's no way GW would cut back on their biggest seller.


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## TheAbominableDan (Sep 16, 2010)

Stella Cadente said:


> another that is widely accepted is that support for specialist games again would be a benefit and would make allot of people who enjoy those games very happy, at the very least allow them to be played in GW stores.


I remember being in the hobby when specialist games did get support. They each had their own bi-monthly magazine, the products were sold in stores and they even ran the games in stores. Nobody cared. Me and my friends were practically the only ones buying the stuff and when they ran a Necromunda campaign, three people I didn't know showed up to participate. They're not going to invest so heavily in a property that people don't care about.



> creationg of better thought out campaigns and book supplements, proof readers, play testers, better tournament systems, realistic prices, better in store customer interaction, less emphasis on SPESS MAHREENS, all things that really aren't too difficult to implement and would have nothing but a positive outcome on pretty much the entire GW fanbase, and would bring back fans they have alienated, heck if they did all that I mentioned GW would see my money.


This is the second topic I've seen you bring up your theory that GW doesn't playtest and again I challenge you to actually prove it. And not just make a broad, ultimately untrue generalization.

What the hell GW stores do you go to? I've been playing 40k for a long time and my store interactions have always been great. Friendly/knowledgeable staff who are willing to help me out in any way I need. I needed painting lessons, they helped me out. I wasn't sure what army I wanted to collect next, they spent a good while discussing various ideas with me. I have nothing bad to say about GW staff. The ones at my store are even very good at noticing when a child player is getting in the way of older players and step in.

Why would GW stop promoting Space Marines? It's a product that sells, it sells very well. They like selling product. This is like criticizing a book store for carrying the Twilight books. Weather or not you like it, they like the money they get from selling more copies of it than anything else. (I should point out I don't think Space Marines are like Twilight. It's just an example of a popular thing that takes a lot of flak. Marines are actually pretty rad)



> sure those fixes may be a negative to rules abusers who don't want proof readers, powergamers who don't want play testers, tournament players who only play if the word swiss is involved anyway, people who earn £90,000 a day may not like or understand the fact that people who earn less than £500 a month can't afford the models and moan about it and people who are fine with pushy staff ramming marneus calgar up your ass, these things will not please them, but they are the ones I think GW shouldn't be trying to please, because they don't help either.


If someone actually earned $90,000 a day and was interested in a product you sold wouldn't you try to sell it to them? I don't have much money, I can afford models at a slow pace and I don't moan about it. Hobbies are a luxury item, I buy what I can. And I've never had Marneus Calgar shoved up my ass. Again, the staff at my store are great.

I've seen a few of your posts since I got here and I need to ask. Why do you devote so much energy to something you're so angry about? You're pretty active on the forums and all you do is spout hate. Do you have any time left in the day for things you enjoy? I really don't like the band Slipknot. You know what I do about it? Nothing, I focus my energy on other things.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

So, so much whining. Isn`t there already a thread for pointless venting somewhere? Can`t remember what it`s called... :scratchhead:


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I could, but my way is free and my ass is so tight you could stick coal up there and I'd shit a diamond out.


Good to know.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I could, but my way is free and my ass is so tight you could stick coal up there and I'd shit a diamond out.


if you create diamonds by shoving coal up your ass why would you have to worry about the price of binding?, just shove a lump of coal up your ass and make a diamond to pay for it.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> if you create diamonds by shoving coal up your ass why would you have to worry about the price of binding?, just shove a lump of coal up your ass and make a diamond to pay for it.


Coal + Anus = Diamond + Shredded Anus.

Now stop over-thinking my ridiculous posts.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Coal + Anus = Diamond + Shredded Anus.
> 
> Now stop over-thinking my ridiculous posts.


considering how much aussies pay for stuff I'd rather have the shredded anus any day of the week


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## TheSpore (Oct 15, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> considering how much aussies pay for stuff I'd rather have the shredded anus any day of the week


IDK sounds a lil too painful. 

As for prices always remember crack is cheaper


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Stella Cadente said:


> considering how much aussies pay for stuff I'd rather have the shredded anus any day of the week


Nah, the vast majority of us buy from overseas (UK for me)...well all the ones I know anyway - works out almost half price.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

HOBO said:


> Nah, the vast majority of us buy from overseas (UK for me)...well all the ones I know anyway - works out almost half price.


Yeah, I just shop at maelstrom, that way I can buy more than 1 kit a year. The few times I'm in a GW I'll tell people about the cheaper online prices. I'm sick of GW raking in these huge profits because of peoples ignorance of online shops.

I worked it out on another thread, we pay a 67% markup price compared to UK prices for SM tactical squads.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I worked it out on another thread, we pay a 67% markup price compared to UK prices for SM tactical squads.


Well you live alot further away from the factory than the people in the UK, im pretty certain GW would be happy enough for you to collect your order from nottingham and save them shipping and export taxes if you ask nicely :grin:


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## HellishRolls (Sep 28, 2010)

Perhaps it's the fact that Warhammer players are predominantly from the UK and that GW is a UK company..? Us British love a good moan. Games Workshop has undoubtedly gone corporate in the last couple years and they're bumping prices up on products that were nearly half the price in some cases only 6 months ago. Oh hang on, nearly went on a rant there. As you were...


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

.Kevin. said:


> People who don't live and let live.
> 
> Basically people who complain about shit that is pointless but they just have to be heard because it bugs them.
> 
> ...


 

Dude you kinda sound like my dad when you talk like that 

Though a little more rage-y



But OT, we complain simply because we don't like some decisions GW makes. Some things we don't like, so we come here and complain about it.

As a hobby as a whole, we love Warhammer. Otherwise we wouldn't complain about it. IMO, deep down in our subconcious, we complain about stuff that bugs us because we want Warhammer to be a better-than-it-already-is hobby and we don't think whatever decision makes it better.


That answer your question?


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

Thing is 40K isn't like other games. You don't see Monopoly stores and "Best painted Mousetrap" conventions and competitions - its really a some-what unique product line that should be driven by the player base but it's not - it's tightly controlled and monopolised for profit (yes yes GW is a business etc etc, however you can have good business with input from the marketbase). 

I think having a good moan about certain this is actually quite justified - prices, model quality, rules interpretations etc etc. Yes GW can't always be perfect, they are dealing with quite a large product base these days, however hard-back codexes sets a line that once crossed becomes the standard. Slap on £5 extra for whats basically two bits of cardboard and your alienating a consumer base already stretched to the limit: price hikes, model quantity reductions, a "we hate Australia" marketing philosophy etc etc. I could see hardbacks being useful, but at what cost? In a way it's a bit like what I felt killed Blizzards reputation with WoW - they added one or two microtransactions in (character transfers, changes etc). Now there's a store filled with overpriced pixels with no way of stopping it.

Hard to get my point across but I hope a few people see where i'm trying to come from.

My 2 pennys


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

why are we resurrecting 6 month dead threads is the real question


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Because Threadromancy is cool! 

Didn't you know?


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

It's all the rage!


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

All the drama comes from a deep love for the game and need to feel a part of something. I know in America, people really aren't a part of things. Jobs have no logevity and people aren't wed to a certain business or corporation. Families move all over the country in search of a better life and don't stick together. Marriages are made and thrown away.

But, people are social animals. We need the tribe, we need the group, we need the club, the fraternity of brotherhood that says, "You're one of us and you belong." So, we adopt hobby clubs, football teams, favourite pubs, etc... to try and recreate the lost sense of belonging that we once had with extended families, clans, and tribes. When a single company has 100% control over the tribe and starts to jerk it around, the members understandably get upset. They have deep rooted and some times very long lasting relationships with the Warhammer clan and feel the need to protect and preserve the hobby.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

jaysen said:


> All the drama comes from a deep love for the game and need to feel a part of something. I know in America, people really aren't a part of things. Jobs have no logevity and people aren't wed to a certain business or corporation. Families move all over the country in search of a better life and don't stick together. Marriages are made and thrown away.
> 
> But, people are social animals. We need the tribe, we need the group, we need the club, the fraternity of brotherhood that says, "You're one of us and you belong." So, we adopt hobby clubs, football teams, favourite pubs, etc... to try and recreate the lost sense of belonging that we once had with extended families, clans, and tribes. When a single company has 100% control over the tribe and starts to jerk it around, the members understandably get upset. They have deep rooted and some times very long lasting relationships with the Warhammer clan and feel the need to protect and preserve the hobby.


I know that this is off-topic, but this is something about America that has always facinated me (I am assuming that the entire post was about America). The lack of a history that spans several thousand years led to a lack of national identity, a stream of history, with some of the more thoughtful types, leading to the idea of national pride without any cause for it, other than that it gives them their own place on the social ladder. It's just something I've always thought about. I'm no expert on the topic but it always interested me.

Carry on.


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Yeah, America because that's where I am from. But, the same goes for most of the modern world, where a family can uproot and move away from the extended family in search of work. And, since jobs don't last an entire career, this might happen multiple times, basically destroying the family/tribe.

What it does allow for is national pride. I think you are very wrong in your opinion about what national pride is based upon. National pride can come from a sense of commonality, the pride of accomplishment, and the ever present "we're better than them." The breaking down of the clan/tribe a distribution of the atomic families forces people to regroup into regional or ethnic lines. Since the United States is so ethnically diverse, regional groupings are dominant. Throw in the ability to move thousands of miles in search of jobs or the ocean or whatever, and you get the breaking of regional ties as well. This only leaves national identity. I would say that United States citizens, even those that are recent immigrants, hold a great national pride and have much patriotism.

200 years or 2000 years of history doesn't do that. By the way, how long has the United Kingdom been around? Since 1707, right?


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## CountChocula (Jun 4, 2011)

I won't say that I am agreeing with stella but I did buy the IoB starter set just for the mini rulebook (i refuse to pay the $70 for the HB) and it has already started to fall apart on me. I was mad, sure, but I still have lots of army books and codexes from years and years ago that still look brand new (I am also OC with how I treat my books) Not so much with this Damn Bloodthirster I'm working on though. I glued and let him dry for 2 days and as soon as i picked him up his damn wing fell off, earning himself a one way trip across the living room lol. But again this isn't the norm and I tend to think that GW puts out a pretty good product. 

At first I was thinking to myself "oh god here comes another GW grab for money" when i first saw the finecast models. But I will admit, my finecast treeman is now the centerpiece of my WE army and went and stayed together much better and easier than my old metal one. I honestly think that GW tries to do well by its fanbase but can't be faulted when 1 out of 2,000 rulebooks didn't have the best bonding job from the glue.I went into my local GW and was playing a game when I mentioned in passing my WHFB rulebook falling apart to my opponent. Well the store manager (who sold me the IoB starter) overheard what I said and offered to pop open another one and replace mine with a new one, I declined but it meant alot to me that he would offer and went a long way to soothe my anger torwards GW. *shrug*


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