# Feral and Feudal Guard



## Protoss119 (Aug 8, 2010)

Reading over _Dark Heresy: The Inquisitor's Handbook_ again, I notice more than a couple of references to Imperial Guard regiments being raised from Feral worlds, with one passage claiming that "regiments raised on feral worlds (and even a few death worlds and the more unstable feudal worlds) are highly sought after by the Munitorium and represent that world's only tithe to the Imperium, such is the value placed in their fighting stock." (pg. 62) That same passage mentions that, while most of these regiments are heavily drilled into accepting Imperial Guard tactical doctrine, a few are allowed to keep much of their "old ways". The book makes references to levies on feral and feudal worlds, such as Monrass, Endrite, Fedrid, Volnox, Dusk, and Iocanthos.

My question is, how is this supposed to work? At least one older source (Rogue Trader, pg. 134) claims that feudal worlds in particular produce poor material for the Imperial Guard due to the "culture shock" of learning one's place in the galaxy, but it would seem _Inquisitor's Handbook_ contradicts this assertion. How would a feral regiment handle tanks and other vehicles, and what kind of vehicles might be available to them, if any? What would they do for leadership? I imagine that, on feudal and feral worlds, the line between civic and military leadership would be very blurred or nonexistent, so unless the Departmento Munitorum provides its own sergeants and lieutenants (which seems likely), the Administratum would end up levying the planet's domestic leadership as well - tribal chiefs and feudal overlords, that sort of thing. As well, it is mentioned that the Calixis Munitorium ensures the loyalty of Endrite "head-hunter" regiments "with a deployment of their least subtle Commissars and a sizable contingent of Imperial preachers." (pg. 62)

Finally, what kind of aesthetic can one expect out of feral and feudal regiments? I feel like I'm answering my own question in a sense here, but would they be slapped with the same Flak armor and M35 M-Galaxy pattern lasgun that almost every other regiment receives or seems to receive, or is there an amount of leeway involved? I sense conversion opportunities...


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

The Imperial Guard Codex covers this as well.

Remember, the Guard is pretty broken up into specialties. Armored regiments, drop regiments, artillery regiments, ect.

I imagine using feral world troops as some sort of light recon or close quarters assault troops. 

Is there culture shock? Heck yes. The las gun is pretty simple, and they often have months if not years between their Founding and reaching their first war zone, thanks to the strangeness of Warp travel.

Culture shock is the name of the game. Open sky is pretty frightening to a Hive-slummer who has always lived underground.
~~~~

As for their aesthetic...anything you want. I mean, feral worlds cover a lot of ground. It could be pre-stone use all the way up to the iron age. Lots of variety there.


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## Protoss119 (Aug 8, 2010)

hailene said:


> The Imperial Guard Codex covers this as well.


Yeah, I just found the section in the Codex that deals with the training of regiments. I can't believe I missed that. Still, for the most part, it looks like the Munitorum handles training of both soldiers and officers, so that answers that.



hailene said:


> Is there culture shock? Heck yes. The las gun is pretty simple, and they often have months if not years between their Founding and reaching their first war zone, thanks to the strangeness of Warp travel.
> 
> Culture shock is the name of the game. Open sky is pretty frightening to a Hive-slummer who has always lived underground.


Gotcha. So culture shock is not a significant factor in the raising of regiments. The Imperial Guard codex mentions that and also the shock of fighting on foreign worlds, both of which are ground out during training.



hailene said:


> As for their aesthetic...anything you want. I mean, feral worlds cover a lot of ground. It could be pre-stone use all the way up to the iron age. Lots of variety there.


At first, I thought that the Munitorum or Administratum would enforce some kind of armor or uniform standard on feral and feudal regiments, but then I realized there's no way they could do that. They can't even do so to the other classifications of worlds.

I guess this is a hard question for me to ask because there's no one model of a feral or feudal world, and so I could just answer the questions myself on a planet-by-planet basis, but even so.

I was also curious about how status on a feudal or feral world would translate into rank in the Imperial Guard, but it seems to go from local to Munitorum standards. I bring this up - and the IG Codex mentions this too - in the case of Rough Riders; it is mentioned that on some worlds, mounts are reserved for the elite classes and the rulers of society, which would more likely than not be the case on a feudal planet. I was wondering about possible friction between officers and feudal-world Rough Riders, who until they were levied were part of the upper class of their world, be it absolute ruler or just the owner of a feudal estate, but I guess their training could grind that out, too.

I will of course immediately seize upon the chance to have Crusader knights charging Tyranids.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Protoss119 said:


> So culture shock is not a significant factor in the raising of regiments.


Aye, they try to put regiments where their specialties can be used for maximum effect...but this IS the Imperium of Man. You're going to have Valhallan on desert worlds and Catachan troopers slugging through Hives. That's just how the dice roll. Or how the Adminstratum clerk handles the cogniators, I guess.



Protoss119 said:


> I was wondering about possible friction between officers and feudal-world Rough Riders, who until they were levied were part of the upper class of their world, be it absolute ruler or just the owner of a feudal estate, but I guess their training could grind that out, too.


You get a lot of this cultural conflict. Couple of examples stick with me from the Gaunt's Ghost series (very mild spoilers for _Sabbat Martyr_ and _His Last Command_, be warned!):

So in Sabbat Martyr the local planet the Ghosts are fighting on have a restriction on flame weapons: within the grounds of the city, only officers of the local PDF could use flame weapons. The Guard stationed on the city had to do without.

I can only assume this flew because the local PDF's leader (a Marshall) outranked the Guard's commander (a colonel). I'm sure if it went the other way around, the Guard commander would have told him to shove it. Barring the need to play nice and keep everyone happy.

Though, in the end, the Guard commander countermanded the local laws and supplied his troopers with flame weapons when things started getting bad, anyway.

In _His Last Command_, a HEAVILY aristocratic light support vehicle regiment did some unorthodox decision making: when things got hot their commanding officer left the field of battle because he was too valuable to lose. Well, that didn't sit well with the Commissariat, and one commissar mentioned that, in all likelihood, their commanding officer would be shot without trial for abandoning his post.

So that's one way it could end. Either they shut up and place nice, or face the consequences. The Guard isn't exactly adverse to stepping on some toes (or necks!) to get their way.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

hailene said:


> Culture shock is the name of the game. Open sky is pretty frightening to a Hive-slummer who has always lived underground.


The images of hive cities I've seen shown that most of them are above ground. Usually it's the underhive that is below ground, I wouldn't consider that slums has they are far more akin to wilderness. Although I agree about being afraid of open sky actually in the 1st Macharium book, Angel of Fire, the main character mentioned that he felt far more comfortable inside a Baneblade as he had something above his head.



Protoss119 said:


> Yeah, I just found the section in the Codex that deals with the training of regiments. I can't believe I missed that. Still, for the most part, it looks like the Munitorum handles training of both soldiers and officers, so that answers that.


True that the Munitorum trains them but the trainers tend to be from the same world so eventually their training can go astray from the standard regiment.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

locustgate said:


> Usually it's the underhive that is below ground, I wouldn't consider that slums has they are far more akin to wilderness.


How so? It's man-made caverns and shafts (as per the Necromunda rulebook). 

I'd be interested in hearing the difference between "wilderness" and "man-made slum".

Grabbing some definitions from Merriam-Webster.com:

1. an area of a city where poor people live and the buildings are in bad condition

2. a densely populated usually urban area marked by crowding, dirty run-down housing, poverty, and social disorganization 

Both sound like the underhive to me.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

hailene said:


> How so? It's man-made caverns and shafts (as per the Necromunda rulebook).
> 
> I'd be interested in hearing the difference between "wilderness" and "man-made slum".
> 
> ...


Night Lord book, one with the crown, and the 2nd or 3rd smurf book described the lowest underhive as being yes a man made cavern but one which had pockets of human life, i.e. frontier towns, with uninhabited dangerous and/or uninhabited areas in between settlements, i.o.w. a wilderness, of course this can vary with hives AND the 'towns' could be like a slum.

EDIT: You seem to suggest that the underhive is 100% populated.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

locustgate said:


> You seem to suggest that the underhive is 100% populated.


Not at all. There's definitely portions of the underhive that is uninhabited.

And as you said, there are slums (or 'towns' that you consider to be similar to a slum) in the underhive.

And thus there are hive-slummers that live underground.

Theoretically (and almost guaranteed at least ONE in the trillions of underhiver slummers) would have lived in the underhive their entire life, and therefore never had seen the sun or open sky directly.

And that's all I claimed. Good?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

hailene said:


> Theoretically (and almost guaranteed at least ONE in the trillions of underhiver slummers) would have lived in the underhive their entire life, and therefore never had seen the sun or open sky directly.
> 
> And that's all I claimed. Good?


That there are slums in the underhive yes that all the slums are in the underhive no. A hive tends to be that if you aren't at the top then you are in the slums.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

locustgate said:


> That there are slums in the underhive yes that all the slums are in the underhive no.


Ah, Locust....you're so...yourself.

Yup. Okay, good. We're clear.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Before I begin in responding to posts here I would like to say this is a relatively unexplored area of Warhammer 40k that deserves for attention. Not only for the sake of novels and Fluff but also because they contribute a key resource to the Imperium of Man; Manpower! In regards to the Imperium I feel they just need soldiers for their war machine, and wouldn't sweet the small stuff. However the Commissars might create a problem since they are aso strict on the R&R. 



hailene said:


> The Guard isn't exactly adverse to stepping on some toes (or necks!) to get their way.


No but sadly they feel they must play the Political game to keep favor with PDF, and also to build the Reputation of Guard commanders for career purposes. 



Protoss119 said:


> I thought that the Munitorum or Administratum would enforce some kind of armor or uniform standard on feral and feudal regiments,


Unless it affects the Kill/Death ratio or drastically reduces their fighting ability the Munitorum would not touch anything. Again the Commissiarat might have a thing or two to say but it really would fall to the Unit's Commander for such a decision. Feral worlds would probably keep trophies and keepsakes; Uniform would only be altered by Fuedal worlds once the hand of the Imperium had been established for some time. 



Protoss119 said:


> I feel like I'm answering my own question in a sense here, but would they be slapped with the same Flak armor and M35 M-Galaxy pattern lasgun that almost every other regiment receives or seems to receive, or is there an amount of leeway involved?


Probably, but if the soldier shows his adeptness at another weapon they may change that. I have only really heard of the Ratling Rifle and the blow Gun from the Tanith First and Only as exotic weapons origionating from Feral/Fuedal worlds. 



Protoss119 said:


> How would a feral regiment handle tanks and other vehicles, and what kind of vehicles might be available to them, if any?


The months/years of training would drill that out of them; you don't give humans enuogh credit for their ability to adpat to new enviroments my freind. As far as tanks and vehicles are concerned I'm sure it would take awhile for them to learn how to operate/fight them. The Feral's would be the worst, as the Language/Communication barrier would be the worst.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

So do the guard ever use psycho-indoctrination for IG units en masse? Not just one or two specific regiments, but as a general training tool? Even a light version would help the transition over to the IG, especially for the folks you're mentioning, having grown up in extreme environments.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> So do the guard ever use psycho-indoctrination for IG units en masse? Not just one or two specific regiments, but as a general training tool? Even a light version would help the transition over to the IG, especially for the folks you're mentioning, having grown up in extreme environments.


I've never heard of them doing it for an entire regiment, outside of home fluff.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> No but sadly they feel they must play the Political game to keep favor with PDF, and also to build the Reputation of Guard commanders for career purposes.


Since when does the Commissariat care about the PDF? The PDF is on the bottom of the totem pole.

Plus Commissars are only attached to the Imperial Guard and Navy. 



emporershand89 said:


> blow Gun from the Tanith First and Only


Blow gun? Maybe you're thinking of the reynbow ?


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## Protoss119 (Aug 8, 2010)

hailene said:


> Since when does the Commissariat care about the PDF? The PDF is on the bottom of the totem pole.
> 
> Plus Commissars are only attached to the Imperial Guard and Navy.


Unless your name is Marius Hax, in which case you have the Chaliced Commissariat policing your PDF (_Inquisitor's Handbook_, pg. 60). Still, your point stands, and the Chaliced Commissariat has had at least one run-in with the _actual_ Commissariat...


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

hailene said:


> Since when does the Commissariat care about the PDF? The PDF is on the bottom of the totem pole.


I must disagree, and in more than one novel I've read of Commissars among the PDF ranks to kieep moral up. My understand is that it varies planet to planet, like the National Guard differs state to state here in the U.S. For long standing planets like Cadia, Nostrya, Catachan, Vallhalla, Krieg the tradition of having Commissars injected into PDF forces is quite common. The reason being is that many of these troops go on to serve in the Guard, and their units trained on PDF level for just that expressed reason.

Vervun Hive had one, I beleive Cain encountered a "Retired" Commissar that came back to service to fight for his planet. In numerous novels involving Cadia I've noted references to PDF Commissars being to stringent with the rules. 





hailene said:


> reynbow


Yes thats it. I had forgotten the name.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

emporershand89 said:


> I must disagree, and in more than one novel I've read of Commissars among the PDF ranks to kieep moral up.


Only insofar as leading them in battle. For training purposes? No.

Also there's a difference between Imperial Commissars and plantary bodies that create commissariat-like bodies.

In _Necropolis_ a local commissariat tries to try some Imperial Guardsman, but Gaunt tells them to screw off:

"Imperial Commissariat edict 437b states that any activity concerning the disipline of the Imperial Guardsmen must be conducted by the _Imperial Commissariat_ itself. *Not* by planetary bodies."

The Commissariat is separate and above the Guard (which itself is set above the PDF). The Commissariat doesn't't have to play nice.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

hailene said:


> "Imperial Commissariat edict 437b states that any activity concerning the disipline of the Imperial Guardsmen must be conducted by the Imperial Commissariat itself. Not by planetary bodies."


Argh you've got me, this is true. i would still argue a Commissar is a Commissar but since they are not of an "Imperial" level it would be irrelevant. Like State and Federal SWAT teams


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