# Necrons 7th edition



## The Sturk

Necron codex inbound for the 31st

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/01/leaked-images-necrons-and-next-weeks.html



> This Coming Week's Releases
> Necron Overlord: $28
> Codex: Necrons - Hardback 128 pages $49.50
> Codex: Necrons Cryptek Edition $165
> Codex: Necrons Digital Edition
> Datacards: Necrons $12.50
> 
> Bundles
> The Tomb Awakened $185











http://i.imgur.com/SE01CMZ.jpg


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## MidnightSun

Damn, that cover art is nice. I mean, all the 7th ed books have great cover art, but the 5th ed Necron book one does not appeal to me _at all_, so it looks even better by comparison.


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## ntaw

Welp, there goes the rest of my monies.

I'm really liking where they took the Warscythe, can't wait to see where my robot zombies stand in 7th!

EDIT: whoa, just saw that there are powers of the C'Tan cards. That could make those models a lot more appealing to me.


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## MidnightSun

ntaw said:


> Welp, there goes the rest of my monies.
> 
> I'm really liking where they took the Warscythe, can't wait to see where my robot zombies stand in 7th!
> 
> EDIT: whoa, just saw that there are powers of the C'Tan cards. That could make those models a lot more appealing to me.


There are only six cards, so it's not a psychic discipline (no Primaris) - it's probably just reference cards for the C'tan Powers, which are already a thing


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## ntaw

Maybe not new per se, but they will have updated rules and they might be activated in the Psychic phase.


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## venomlust

Awesooome! Very interested to see how accurate the rumors were for changes to mindshackle scarabs, tesla, and such. Mostly mindshackle scarabs.


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## Nordicus

I didn't see the rumor about mindshackle. Mind repeating it for me?


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## The Sturk

One interesting thing to note is that the codex is 120 pages, which is a good 8-16 pages longer than the past few codexes (codecies?). I wonder if that could represent any material such as rules for different dynasties?


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## Einherjar667

The Sturk said:


> One interesting thing to note is that the codex is 120 pages, which is a good 8-16 pages longer than the past few codexes (codecies?). I wonder if that could represent any material such as rules for different dynasties?



That was one of the rumours too. So..... Now i am tempted as hell to start necrons.


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## venomlust

Nordicus said:


> I didn't see the rumor about mindshackle. Mind repeating it for me?



Not sure which rumor site I read it on, either Natfka or BoLS, but the rumor was simply that they're getting nerfed. Nerfed, I say!



The Sturk said:


> One interesting thing to note is that the codex is 120 pages, which is a good 8-16 pages longer than the past few codexes (codecies?). I wonder if that could represent any material such as rules for different dynasties?


Formations, maybe a Lord of War or something. Don't know anything about Necron fluff, but I can't see GW being generous by including rules in a codex that they can use to fill out future supplements. However, I seem to remember some alternate Blood Angels rules and formations for Flesh Tearers, though. Were they from the codex or the campaign books?


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## Serpion5

Only six c'tan powers now? I'll be interested to see what they've done with that. Hopefully they'll be worth using now.


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## MidnightSun

Necrons have more units than GK/DE and their special characters have models so they're probably not going to be cut? That's all I got, anyway.


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## falcoso

I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with the c'tan. I find it interesting that in all the Shield of Baal stuff they are referred to as c'tan and no longer c'tan shards? Maybe there is no transcendent c'tan anymore and c'tan are just being buffed back to how they used to be (though probably more balanced). I mean the models are awesome, just no one will ever use them cus they are bullet magnets.

I expect the extra pages are more likely to be fleshing out the individual dynasties' fluffs. The old codex mainly focussed on necrons as a whole or the Sautekh dynasty, apart from one page of the different dynasties. It woud be interesting to see what makes the others different apart from the way they look.


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## MidnightSun

falcoso said:


> I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with the c'tan. I find it interesting that in all the Shield of Baal stuff they are referred to as c'tan and no longer c'tan shards? Maybe there is no transcendent c'tan anymore and c'tan are just being buffed back to how they used to be (though probably more balanced). I mean the models are awesome, just no one will ever use them cus they are bullet magnets.


I think it's safe to say they're keeping C'tan the same way after the Mephrit Dynasty stuff - the +1 Str/T and the 2 Crypteks + C'tan Shard formation.

And I keep telling you, the Nightbringer and the Deceiver weren't even that _good_, let alone overpowered; put away those rose-tinted glasses man! :victory:


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## raven_jim

Hopefully a bit of nerfing of the mind shackle scarabs in this one


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## MidnightSun

Yep - my predictions for where the Nerfhammer will be swung is to Mindshackle Scarabs and Voltaic Staves, and either a rules nerf or a significant price increase on Annihilation Barges and Night Scythes. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Annihilation Barge hit 150pts, and Night Scythes would be more appropriately costed at 130pts although GW has had a habit of knee-jerk reactions in regard to tuning down the Flyers that were running the game two years ago (I often see Chaos players overlooking the Heldrake in favour of Spawn and Bikers nowadays, and Vendettas got a pretty huge downgrade with a large price bump _and_ reduced transport capacity). Wraiths could also take a hit as they're basically the poster for what a good assault unit wants to be alongside TH/SS Terminators.


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## Einherjar667




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## Zion

Bigger image I found on Dakka:









And some more from Dakka in genera;:


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## ntaw

Loving the new Detachments in ever Codex, can't wait to see what the Necron's bonus will be. 

I will have to get painting some of my Warriors and Immortals...c'mon some new stuff/rules about the Thokt Dynasty!


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## MidnightSun

Huh, the Wraiths are also on 32mm. Didn't see that coming.

EDIT: Nah, it's just a perspective thing.


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## ntaw

Thinking of base sizes, I'm really hoping Warriors get the upsize to their base. Every single foot is hanging over pretty much always.


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## MidnightSun

I'm fairly certain they will, as every infantry unit that's been released since the new bases went into circulation are on 32mm. I mean, yes, that's only a couple of units, but still.


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## darklove

I'd guess at the 6 C'tan powers being the new codex-specific Warlord Traits. That makes more sense to me, if you consider that C'tan might be bumped back into the HQ section again as a possibility.


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## locustgate

darklove said:


> I'd guess at the 6 C'tan powers being the new codex-specific Warlord Traits. That makes more sense to me, if you consider that C'tan might be bumped back into the HQ section again as a possibility.


Did people not like the necrons going away from being c'tan mindless puppets?


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## darklove

I think a lot of people did, but the degradation of the C'tan in the current codex is lamentable.


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## Zion

From Warseer regarding the new formation:



> A few more info after a better reading. And keep in mind I translate things so in the English version of the WD things may sound different, so please don't go berserk if after I say "Dance of Death" it's in reality Death Dance, Deadly Dance, Mortal Tango or Fatal Dubsteb in your WD.
> 
> Regarding the Decurion, I find the way it works for some of these formations not that clear. Formations are presented in boxes linked by lines. You can take 1 to 10 of the optional formations, and since there are only 9 total it's obvious you can take some more than one. But the way it's presented I'm actually wondering if you can take anything you want multiple time, or only the first three ones (which are the Destroyers, Praetorian and the Canoptek one). In a way it makes sense to not spam things like Trans Ctans or Obelisk, but in another it makes no sense to be limited to a single Deathmark unit yet spam things like Praetorians... WD, why you no clear?
> 
> Also WD refers to the Decurion itself as giving bonuses to the units composing it in addition to what the Formations do, but I never managed to find these bonuses listed anywhere.
> 
> Some precisions:
> - I previously said the Canoptek formation includes 1 Spyder, but later in a pic it shows said formation with 1 UNIT of Spyders. So I don't know which page is right.
> - I said the Praetorian formation included a Stalker, but actually after rereading it it's an UNIT of Stalkers.
> - Heavy Destroyers are indeed their one unit now.
> - Deathmarks and Flayed are indeed only 1 unit.
> - Dommscythes are 2 to 4.
> - Royal court MUST include at least one Lord and one Cryptek.
> - Obyron can replace a Lord.
> - Illuminator and Orikan can replace a Cryptek.
> 
> Regarding the CTans, WD seems to really make a difference between Shards of the Deceiver, Nightbringer, Trans CTan and the Vault. This is how their power work:
> - During the shooting phase, chose an enemy unit.
> - Roll a D6 or pick a card to determine the attack it suffers.
> - The randomness represents the CTan basically doing whatever he wants when released on a battlefield.
> - Each attack comes in 2 Flavors.
> - The first one, supposedly already devastating, is used by the two shards and the Trans CTan.
> - The second one, that appears to be the powerful Apocalypse effect, is for the Vault.


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## Firewolf

locustgate said:


> Did people not like the necrons going away from being c'tan mindless puppets?


>>Yep, I did.


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## Firewolf

darklove said:


> I think a lot of people did, but the degradation of the C'tan in the current codex is lamentable.


>> Nightbringer and the Deciever were never as shit-hot as people made them out to be anyhoo. I like the fact that you can now kinda make yer own shard, without being stuck with one or t'other. Maybe just me though.


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## falcoso

ntaw said:


> Thinking of base sizes, I'm really hoping Warriors get the upsize to their base. Every single foot is hanging over pretty much always.


Looking at all th images since the shield of baal campaign book they are on 32mm, so that is definite


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## MidnightSun

So the Decurion consists of 1-10 formations and gives them an extra buff?

Why would you not bring that for your one formation and get the free buff on top of your Command Benefits for being a Formation?


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## Zion

Images posted on Dakka:


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## ntaw

That is....not very interesting to me. The only way to take Warriors is by also taking Tomb Blades? No thanks. I'll reserve anything more judgemental until I hold the real thing, but my Necrons may either only come in BRB detachments or not at all if this is the case.


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## venomlust

That overlord is... pretty weak. Sorry for being a negative nancy, but damn, sculptors really dropped the _REANIMATION ORB_ on that one!


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## Zion

It's a formation thing not an FOC. More images, this time from Forofreakfactory:


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## venomlust

I always forget how many amazing sculpts they have in the Necron range. Triarch Stalkers, Wraiths, Doomscythes, Arks, Command Barge, Nightbringer, Praetorian/Lychguard are all pretty badass!


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## Xabre

Did anyone notice that this suggests a CCB is a valid HQ choice, without a character?


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## Ralnosh

That overlord is really nice  and the scythe it goes perfectly.


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## ntaw

Zion said:


> It's a formation thing not an FOC.


They call it a (Decurion) Detachment, which is different from a Formation as far as the current rules for each state. For example in the recently released BA Codex there's a Baal Strike Force Detachment which presents a different FOC than the BRB offers and a Blood Angels Battle Company Formation which is a specific set of units, and the names of such are not intermixed. This new thing looks like a web of Formations but is called a Detachment, hence my confusion.


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## MidnightSun

I don't really know why you'd bring it, because there's nothing stopping you bringing a bunch of Detachments/Formations anyway - you can, theoretically, just bring Firebase Support Cadres and nothing else and that's a valid army, or just Assassinorum Execution Forces or whatever.

I'm waiting for full rules, because at the moment it seems like it's saying 'You can do the same thing you can do as per the BRB, except in this version you have to bring this mandatory formation too and can only bring Necron ones'.


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## Zion

ntaw said:


> They call it a (Decurion) Detachment, which is different from a Formation as far as the current rules for each state. For example in the recently released BA Codex there's a Baal Strike Force Detachment which presents a different FOC than the BRB offers and a Blood Angels Battle Company Formation which is a specific set of units, and the names of such are not intermixed. This new thing looks like a web of Formations but is called a Detachment, hence my confusion.


Except detachments can't be made of formations and that clearly has a formation in it.


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## Xabre

A _Detachment_ is a set of rules with benefits. Such as a Combined Arms Detachment. A Formation is a sub-unit, which doesn't really affect the primary list at all... they're just along for the ride.

The Decurion _Detachment_ skips using a Combined Arms or whatever, and its benefit is that it doesn't give two craps about the standard FOC. It uses these special 'Auxillary' units instead. You don't take 0-3 Elites, you take 3 Deathbringer Flights, 2 Flayed Ones, and a Judicator Battalion. For example. I also heard a rumor that you give up Objective Secured for Rerolling 1s on the protocols.


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## MidnightSun

Zion said:


> Except detachments can't be made of formations and that clearly has a formation in it.


Does the rulebook specifically state that? And if it does, does the Necron Codex say nothing to override that?


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## Zion

That's no rumor Xabre, it's on one of the pictures we've seen.

And speaking of pictures:


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## Zion

MidnightSun said:


> Does the rulebook specifically state that? And if it does, does the Necron Codex say nothing to override that?


pg 120 talks about Detachments and says they're part of a Battle Forged army and shows the Combined Arms Detachment.

Formations are then listed on 121, in their little black box, as a special kind of detachment. So yeah, not going INSIDE of another FOC. It'll go inside another formation which will serve as an overarching detachment with different restrictions, but it's not going inside of a CAD or whatever the Necron one may be.

Seriously, we've had formations since 6th and people are still arguing how they work? They aren't that hard.


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## venomlust

Well, you know the community @Zion. People still argue that Forge World isn't really GW, among other things. My favorite argument is on dakkadakka, where one player argues that the digital codices aren't "official" rules because they aren't a physical copy he can flip through.


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## Zion

venomlust said:


> My favorite argument is on dakkadakka, where one player argues that the digital codices aren't "official" rules because they aren't a physical copy he can flip through.


So my Sisters aren't official? :shok: WHAT.


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## Loli

Zion said:


> So my Sisters aren't official? :shok: WHAT.


You aren't the only one. My Sisters are pure homebrew it would seem. Want to form a club Z?


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## Zion

Loli said:


> You aren't the only one. My Sisters are pure homebrew it would seem. Want to form a club Z?


Good thing homebrew is still legal anyways.

And more rumors from Natfka:


TKoS on Faeit 212 said:


> The decurion detachment will not be a Necron only thing. The standard FOC
> was designed with the Space Marine company structure in mind, and GW has
> been toying around with new ways to building fluffy armies. Looking back
> the Archangel Strikeforce from Shield of Ball, this can can be seen as a
> prototype for a decurion detachment.
> 
> IG will be getting their own decurion in a dataslate some time in the
> future, and the Necron force from IA12 will be getting one as well. Expect
> 2-6 warriors, 1-6 flayed ones, and 1-3 charnel scarabs, but this is just
> speculation.
> 
> Expect more decuron formations to pop up in expansions and future codex
> updates, but don't think FOC charts are going away. Decurion formations
> will become the new "fluffy" lists; options that more closely adhere to the
> quirks and idiosyncrasies of specific Warlords or factions.
> 
> Regards,
> TKoS


So it sounds like a rumor to tell us what we know: more custom and varied FOCs are coming.


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## venomlust

I like the idea of varied FOC options. If the benefits are legitimate and there is good synergy among the various units, that could be a very neat way of making the less-than-desirable units worth taking now and then. It also gives GW the opportunity to give us new army options without the cost involved with writing and publishing books. The potential for even more dataslates and the frustration involved in keeping track of them all isn't all that exciting, though.


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## Zion

While I agree, too many books always been an issue with the game.


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## MidnightSun

Zion said:


> pg 120 talks about Detachments and says they're part of a Battle Forged army and shows the Combined Arms Detachment.
> 
> Formations are then listed on 121, in their little black box, as a special kind of detachment. So yeah, not going INSIDE of another FOC. It'll go inside another formation which will serve as an overarching detachment with different restrictions, but it's not going inside of a CAD or whatever the Necron one may be.


So there's nothing specific that says multiple Formations may never ever be conglomerated into a Detachment?

I'll just go ahead and repeat that I think it's stupid; the rulebook allows you to make an army of Formations anyway without being forced into bringing the generic one, so I don't get what the Decurion is offering you.



venomlust said:


> People still argue that Forge World isn't really GW, among other things.


To be fair, that's because it's the easiest argument to use (even if it is wrong) to stop Forge World advocated making the game even more hilariously broken than it is with the frankly preposterous excuses for rulebooks that are Imperial Armour books.


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## Zion

The Imperial Armour books aren't breaking the game. That arguement died a long time ago, and it died a second death when Lords of War became standard play.

And unless the ruleset says that formations can be a part of a battle forged detachement (which is what all those FOCs we've been seeing are) they are formation detachments instead. And the rules doesn't put formation detachments inside of battle forged ones.


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## MidnightSun

Well, everyone has their own opinion on it - mine is that I don't really want to add Sevrin Loth, Sabre Weapons Platforms, Canoptek Acanthrites, Y'vahra Battlesuits, Nightwing Interceptors and Manticores with Manticore Missiles to name a couple of the more ridiculous Forge World units. Sure, regular GW has Wave Serpents and Riptides and Tigurius and Grav Centurions, but I don't think any of those are quite as unforgivable as the Manticore Missiles or Y'vahra.

Super-heavies other than Knights are still not in standard 40k as I'm sure you're aware; either people realised they were dumb straight off the bat; people didn't own one; people felt like an ass turning up to a game with a giant tank that nobody had played or even seen before; or people played with super-heavies, realised that other than the Revenant and the C'tan, they're all garbage and replaced them with good stuff while the Transcendent is horrifically broken and nobody on the face of the earth enjoys a game with one on the table so you become a gaming pariah if you even mention bringing one.


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## ntaw

Zion said:


> And unless the ruleset says that formations can be a part of a battle forged detachement (which is what all those FOCs we've been seeing are) they are formation detachments instead.


We both need to start reading. BRB. pg. 121:



> Formations are a special type of Detachment...unlike other Detachments, Formations can also be taken as part of Unbound armies.


So a Formation is a Detachment that can be taken with Battle Forged armies, not something different like either of us thought (also, Battle Forged _army_, Combined Arms/Allied _Detachment_).

Back on topic, I'm pretty stoked to see how C'Tan operate in this edition as well as Flayed Ones. I always thought they should be better in CC...


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## MidnightSun

ntaw said:


> So a Formation is a Detachment that can be taken with Battle Forged armies, not something different like either of us thought (also, Battle Forged _army_, Combined Arms/Allied _Detachment_).


Except the rule you just quoted specifically states they can be used in Unbound armies?


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## Zion




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## Zion




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## ntaw

MidnightSun said:


> Except the rule you just quoted specifically states they can be used in Unbound armies?


Did you miss the word _also_ with regard to Unbound armies? A Battle Forged army is made up of Detachments, Formations are a unique type of Detachment and thus can be included in a Battle Forged army. Formations can still be included in Unbound armies despite their status as a Detachment and maintain the special rules afforded that Formation.

If you still need to clarify this some more PM me because we're killing the thread here.

The rules for the Reclamation Legion look swank, and I'm very interested in seeing how Decurion Detachments will work within other armies. It'll be interesting to see if/how Reanimation Protocols and Ressurrection Orbs have changed and how (undeniably awesome) they will work with Enhanced Reanimation Protocols.


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## Xabre

ntaw said:


> The rules for the Reclamation Legion look swank, and I'm very interested in seeing how Decurion Detachments will work within other armies.


I see this as a great way to introduce different Space Marine chapters, or even some of the supplements.

For instance, Imperial Fists could take more Devestators and Dev Centurions, and gain the Bolter Drill bonus, while Ultras may take more Tactical Marines and get their chapter tactic.

Tau could have... something, but Farsight could run more Crisis (including required) to get their Preferred Enemy.


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## Zion

> via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
> 
> Necron Special Rules
> Reanimation Protocols are for whenever a model suffers an unsaved wound and can be used against "no saves of any kind" as RP is not a saving throw. It also works against instant death weapons, but not destroyer or removed from play. Standard is a 5+ and can never be improved better than a 4+. If you have FNP, and RP, you must choose which one to use., but not both.
> 
> Living Metal ignores shaken results but still loses a hull point. On the roll of a 6 at the end of the round, regain a lost hull point.
> 
> Warlord Traits
> 1. Warlord has Eternal Warrior
> 2. Warlord has Zealot
> 3. Warlord and friendlies within 12" re-roll failed morale, pinning and fear
> 4. While warlord is alive, add or subtract 1 to reserve rolls and seize the initiative after the roll is made
> 5. Warlord and friendly's within 12" have relentless and crusader
> 6. Warlord must accept challenges and re-rolls all failed to hit rolls in challenges. If an enemy refuses a challenge the Warlord gains hatred for rest of game.





> antaonix;7366221 wrote:Hi guys, New information for the necron here. Again, I just translated it to english. I'm not native speaker so please understand poor translation
> 
> 1. Reanimation protocol changed like Fantasy's ward save. Can be used at Instant Death.
> 2. Resurrection orb now gives reroll of current phase's protocol. One use only.
> 3. Lychguard and Praetorian guard's point value almost halved.
> 4. Invul save of lychguard now same as storm shield. But no reflection.
> 5. Praetorian's magic stick's range increased to 12"
> 6. Triarch stalker now have ability which increasing nearby unit's BS.
> 7. At start of Each turn, Nemesor Zandrek pick one of the Warlord trait of Codex or rulebook and use it until next turn.
> 8. He still applies nearby enemy unit's special rule to himself.
> 9. All the fliers nerfed. Point increase and Weapon's power decrease.
> 10. Cryptek is now HQ slot.
> 11. Mss got serious nerf.





> via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
> Some stat changes I noticed:
> Overlords (and the othet special character overlords)- WS and BS 5 instead
> of 4
> Lords - 2 wounds instead of 1
> Cryptek - 2 wounds instead of 1
> Orikan the Diviner- once the change in stats happens, it remains for the
> entire game!
> Flayed ones - same stats but now have 2 weapons (flayer claws, AP5, shred)
> so have 4 attacks total.
> Triarch praetorians - 2 attacks instead of 1.
> Canoptek Wraiths - Toughness 5 instead of 4
> Destroyers (both versions) - 2 wounds instead of 1 (finally)
> Obelisk - 14 AV all around, instead of 12.
> 
> The Phase shifter, which is now 4+ inv save instead of 3+, states
> specifically that it doesnt work on the catacomb Barge, just the Overlord,
> so no more jackass rules interpretation.
> 
> Death Ray - now is 24" S10, AP1, Heavy 1, Blast, Lance
> Doomsday cannon, +1 strength to both profiles (so 8/10)





> via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
> I have the codex, and I know the new decurion detachment has been a hot issue. Here are the rules for it straight from the codex.
> 
> -The Decurion Detachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army
> 
> -Units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Decurion Detachment are an exeption and are both part of their formation and the detachment with both command benefits and special rules
> 
> -If the Warlord is a part of a Decurion Detachment, that entire Decurion Detachment is your primary detachment
> 
> -You can take Combined Arms and Allied Detachments and/or Decurion Detachments for Battle-Forged Armies


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## The Sturk

With how everything was going in terms of Universalizing rules in 7th, the fact that RP is now just an improved version of FNP isn't too surprising. And overall, it doesn't change too much to how Necrons function, so its a change I can deal with.

And now it looks like that all Necron vehicles have a form of IWND, which is awesome. I hope that Quantum shielding remains as it is.

The Warlord traits are kinda mediocre. The Mephrit Dynasty ones are much better in comparison, as does the IA 12 warlord traits.

I am liking the buffed stats for those units. Flayed ones may see a use now, with the addition of AP and Shred to their attacks. I love the fact that Destroyers are 2 wounds now, same with Lords and Crypteks. The WS/BS of 5 for Overlords is nice. I assume that Wraiths are T5 now to off set that Phase Shifters are 4++ now. Hopefully they still have 3+ armor though.

A shame about the Doom Scythe, but in practicality, you probably were not hitting more than one unit with the beam anyway. The addition of Lance on it is nice though, shame its only a small blast. 

Overall, I'm liking the changes. I still want to see what happens to Gauss, Tesla, Quantum Shielding, and a few wargear pieces like the Sepiternal Weave.


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## MidnightSun

Calling bullshit. That's wishlisting to a degree that makes the old Necron rumour of 'they have a gun that hits every model in the enemy army' seem reasonable, likely and balanced.

'Nearly half price Lychguard', so say 25pts, with a Power Sword, a Storm Shield and a super Feel No Pain that you can re-roll 1s if you're part of a Reclamation Legion? Yep. Wraiths, already a bloody solid combat unit, with T5 to stop you killing them with small arms (you know, the only thing they're really weak against?)? Yep. EDIT: In fairness, if they do go to 4++ that mitigates the higher toughness quite significantly.


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## venomlust

Mindshackle Scarabs neeeerfed, happy day! Now my Juggerlord only has to worry about hitting himself in the face if he rolls a 1. Although, the details are obviously important...


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## Stormxlr

venomlust said:


> Well, you know the community @Zion. People still argue that Forge World isn't really GW, among other things. My favorite argument is on dakkadakka, where one player argues that the digital codices aren't "official" rules because they aren't a physical copy he can flip through.


Can you link that? I would love too read that seems like a good midnight read haha xD


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## The Sturk

> vi an anonymous source on Faeit 212
> 
> Note that the datacards include a deck of the c'tan powers so you can shuffle those and draw a card instead of rolling.
> 
> All powers are 24" except the Tesseract Vault which has a range of 48". Tesseract Vault powers are are the same strength and ap, but longer ranged and other changes noted below.
> 
> 1. Powers of the C'tan
> Antimatter Meteor -S8 AP3 lg blast
> -Tesseract Vault Apoc Blast
> 
> 2. Cosmic Fire - S6 AP4 lg blast ignores cover
> -Tesseract Vault Apoc blast ignores cover
> 
> 3. Seismic Assault - S6 AP4 assault 10 strikedown
> -Tesseract Vault Assault 20 strikedown
> 
> 4. Sky of Falling Stars - S7 AP4 assault 3 lg blast barrage
> -Tesseract Vault assault 6 apoc barrage
> 
> 5. Time's Arrow - SD AP1 precision shot
> -Tesseract Vault assault 2 precision shots
> 
> 6. Transdimensional Thunderbolt -S9 AP1 Tesla
> -Tesseract Vault assault 2 Tesla
> 
> *Tesla: When firing this weapon a to hit roll of 6 causes 2 extra hits. Snap shots dont do extra hits.


As expected, Tesla no longer give extra hits on snap shots. And the powers definitely seem geared towards anti-infantry.

Hopefully the prices for the Transcendant C'Tan and the Vault are modified to fit the randomness.


----------



## Zion

From Dakka:


>


From Natfka:


> via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
> The C'tan are not generalized into one generic unit like some people are concerned. Each gets its own entry and costs around the same point costs of a Land Raider, with the Transcendent costing an extra 10pts which also carries with it an extra wound giving it a 5 wounds. I would of expected a higher toughness, but S7 and T7 is all around. Transcendent has an additional Strength.
> 
> Powers of the C'tan work like this; Pick your target and then roll for power.
> 
> All of them share some powers of eternal warrior, and fearless, Immune to natural law- ignoring terrain, and Necrodermis- 4++ and exploding on death-any models within d6" suffer S4 AP1 hits.
> 
> The biggest differences are in their remaining powers
> Nightbringer- fleshbane and Gaze of Death targets non-vehicles 12" and takes AP2 wounds equal to 3d6 minus leadership
> 
> Deceiver- hit and run, Dread-enemy units within 12" -2 leadership, and Grand Illusion- after scouts redeploy d3 units within 12"and the deceiver through normal deployment or put in reserves.
> 
> Transcendent- Deepstrike, and Writhing Worldscape- open ground in 6" is difficult terrain.


----------



## Serpion5

So does this mean the ridiculously powerful transcendant c'tan and tesseract vault from the apocalypse book are being replaced with the new versions in the codex? 

Or are they smaller scale alternatives?


----------



## Zion

Likely replacements.


----------



## Serpion5

:cray:


----------



## The Sturk

Unless the Transcendent C'tan is still a Gargantuan Creature, the Nightbringer one seems the most useful (read: killy). I do like that they kinda brought back the shenanigans that the old Deceiver did though.

Honestly, if you primarily target infantry, the random powers isn't that bad. Of course you can't rely on getting a specific one, but depending on their point value, it may be worth trying. 

Edit: just noticed the price there for the Nightbringer.

... I'd be willing to try it in a game or two, maybe with the Mephrit Dynasty for the God Shackle.


----------



## Zion

I'll be honest, the more rumors I see the more I actually like about the codex. It seems like it's more balanced, maybe even a touch underpowered (which I prefer to being too powerful because I always feel like a cunt if table an opponent right out of the gate. I'd rather have a game that's a little harder for me to win, than one where I had no challenge).

I know the C'Tan don't look brilliant right now, but I'm interested to seeing how they pan out. That said this book might be the thing to get me to finally do Necrons proper for the first time in a long time.


----------



## Serpion5

Zion said:


> I know the C'Tan don't look brilliant right now, but I'm interested to seeing how they pan out. That said this book might be the thing to get me to finally do Necrons proper for the first time in a long time.


The thing that I'm sad about is losing a viable Apoc level powerhouse. My brother and other apoc capable opponents bring titans to the table and after what 7e did to the pylon, the vault and transcendant c'tan allowed me to at least be on equal footing. 

Losing those powerhouse units means my apoc games are once again going to leave me at a disadvantage.


----------



## Stormxlr

Serpion5 said:


> The thing that I'm sad about is losing a viable Apoc level powerhouse. My brother and other apoc capable opponents bring titans to the table and after what 7e did to the pylon, the vault and transcendant c'tan allowed me to at least be on equal footing.
> 
> Losing those powerhouse units means my apoc games are once again going to leave me at a disadvantage.


Why cant you just field the Apoc versions from Apoc books?


----------



## Creator of Chaos

Looking foward to this release. Dont have much cash but definatly will pick up the new codex. This is gonna be good

MSS and Tesla nerfs were definatly Inevitable. MSS Turned combat on its head, even in apocalypse it was a tad ridiculous and Tesla probably got overused more then anything. That said WS5/BS5 Overlords, More toughness and wounds for army. cheaper units, a sorta, maybe gonna return for the Ctan. Alot to like honestly and i will say Im glad I recently started buying my wraiths.


----------



## Zion

Serpion5 said:


> The thing that I'm sad about is losing a viable Apoc level powerhouse. My brother and other apoc capable opponents bring titans to the table and after what 7e did to the pylon, the vault and transcendant c'tan allowed me to at least be on equal footing.
> 
> Losing those powerhouse units means my apoc games are once again going to leave me at a disadvantage.


Vault is still pretty good though. I mean it's got more shots per power and better range too. It's maybe not as good as it used to be, but it's a LOT more balanced.

And we don't know, the C'Tan might all be Gargantuan Creatures, or they might all be Monstrous, or they might be a mix. We'll have to wait and see.



Stormxlr said:


> Why cant you just field the Apoc versions from Apoc books?


There is a really good chance it'll be replaced by the Codex version, like the some of the charts and D-Weapon tables were.


----------



## Serpion5

Zion said:


> Vault is still pretty good though. I mean it's got more shots per power and better range too. It's maybe not as good as it used to be, but it's a LOT more balanced. And we don't know, the C'Tan might all be Gargantuan Creatures, or they might all be Monstrous, or they might be a mix. We'll have to wait and see.


As far as standard 40k games go, what I've seen so far is fine by me. 



Zion said:


> There is a really good chance it'll be replaced by the Codex version, like the some of the charts and D-Weapon tables were.


If this is the case, it may well be a case of needing several of them now instead of being able to rely on one in Apoc games.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Are we gonna get a giant necron walker? A Necron Colossus.


----------



## darklove

Words_of_Truth said:


> Are we gonna get a giant necron walker? A Necron Colossus.


Wasn't that the rumour for the previous codex? I'm not expecting anything like that.


----------



## OIIIIIIO

I hate to say it ... but I hope that the Necrons get raped with the Nerf Bat ... I will admit to being a little bit bitter after the beat down that GW threw on my BA codex... fuckers.

I just hope that all these codex releases are a little bit more balanced. 

Who wants to see the Eldar Nerf Bat raped to death ... Admit it... you do too.:grin:


----------



## Serpion5

OIIIIIIO said:


> I hate to say it ... but I hope that the Necrons get raped with the Nerf Bat ... I will admit to being a little bit bitter after the beat down that GW threw on my BA codex... fuckers.
> 
> I just hope that all these codex releases are a little bit more balanced.
> 
> Who wants to see the Eldar Nerf Bat raped to death ... Admit it... you do too.:grin:


The eldar NEED it though. The necrons are just unbalanced. Some things need nerfing and other things are shit that should be better.


----------



## Zion

From the Freak Factory Forums:










































EDIT: From Dakka:


SlimSlaney 626667 7536056 null said:


> So, looking at this image from GW website, that I found on tumblr… And looking at the card of the Trancendent C’tan, is it just me or is it listed as a *Heavy Support.*
> 
> You will have to zoom but look at the symbol on the top left, its the explosion we see for Heavy Support not the icon we see for Gargantuan creatures or Lord of War.
> 
> Yes this is my first post, yes I did make an account just to share this.


And yeah, that's a HS symbol. So the toned down Transcendent C'Tan is a 7th HS slot choice.


----------



## venomlust

OIIIIIIO said:


> I hate to say it ... but I hope that the Necrons get raped with the Nerf Bat ... I will admit to being a little bit bitter after the beat down that GW threw on my BA codex... fuckers.
> 
> I just hope that all these codex releases are a little bit more balanced.
> 
> Who wants to see the Eldar Nerf Bat raped to death ... Admit it... you do too.:grin:


Only serpents and wraith-stuff, to be honest. The rest I barely even understand, as I've never seen it on the tabletop.


----------



## Zion

From Natfka


> The C'tan are not generalized into one generic unit like some people are concerned. Each gets its own entry and costs around the same point costs of a Land Raider, with the Transcendent costing an extra 10pts which also carries with it an extra wound giving it a 5 wounds. I would of expected a higher toughness, but S7 and T7 is all around. Transcendent has an additional Strength.
> 
> Powers of the C'tan work like this; Pick your target and then roll for power.
> 
> All of them share some powers of eternal warrior, and fearless, Immune to natural law- ignoring terrain, and Necrodermis- 4++ and exploding on death-any models within d6" suffer S4 AP1 hits.
> 
> The biggest differences are in their remaining powers
> Nightbringer- fleshbane and Gaze of Death targets non-vehicles 12" and takes AP2 wounds equal to 3d6 minus leadership
> 
> Deceiver- hit and run, Dread-enemy units within 12" -2 leadership, and Grand Illusion- after scouts redeploy d3 units within 12"and the deceiver through normal deployment or put in reserves.
> 
> *Transcendent- Deepstrike, and Writhing Worldscape- open ground in 6" is difficult terrain. *


Hadn't noticed the last one before.


----------



## ntaw

It's two pages back in your post from the same source


----------



## Zion

ntaw said:


> It's two pages back in your post from the same source


I did say I didn't _notice_ it before in that rumor.


----------



## Zion

Posted by Natfka:


> There has been lots of rumors over the last few weeks regarding Necrons, and many of them directed towards leaks from early looks at the White Dwarf. However, I wanted to make a distinct difference in some of the leaks we have lately, because these are direct codex leaks instead of information from White Dwarf, and are very solid.
> 
> 
> Anything that I am not sure of where it came from, or the validity of the information, I am not including. This includes the translated bit from yesterday not being included, although is most likely valid. Its here if you want to add this to your own thoughts. http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/01/more-necron-information-flowing.html#comment-form
> 
> Decurion Detachments
> 
> I have the codex, and I know the new decurion detachment has been a hot issue. Here are the rules for it straight from the codex.
> -The Decurion Detachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army
> -Units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Decurion Detachment are an exeption and are both part of their formation and the detachment with both command benefits and special rules
> -If the Warlord is a part of a Decurion Detachment, that entire Decurion Detachment is your primary detachment
> -You can take Combined Arms and Allied Detachments and/or Decurion Detachments for Battle-Forged Armies
> 
> 
> Special Rules and Warlord Traits
> 
> Necron Special Rules
> Reanimation Protocols are for whenever a model suffers an unsaved wound and can be used against "no saves of any kind" as RA is not a saving throw. It also works against instant death weapons, but not destroyer or removed from play. Standard is a 5+ and can never be improved better than a 4+. If you have fnp, and RA, you must choose which one to use., but not both.
> Living Metal ignores shaken results but still loses a hull point. On the roll of a 6 at the end of the round, regain a lost hull point.
> 
> Warlord Traits
> 1. Warlord has Eternal Warrior
> 2. Warlord has Zealot
> 3. Warlord and friendlies within 12" re-roll failed morale, pinning and fear
> 4. While warlord is alive, add or subtract 1 to reserve rolls and seize the initiative after the roll is made
> 5. Warlord and friendles within 12" have relentless and crusader
> 6. Warlord must accept challenges and re-rollls all failed to hit rolls in challenges. If an enemy refuses a challenge the Warlord gains hatred for rest of game.
> 
> Stat Changes
> 
> Some stat changes I noticed:
> Overlords (and the othet special character overlords)- WS and BS 5 insteadof 4
> Lords - 2 wounds instead of 1Cryptek - 2 wounds instead of 1
> Orikan the Diviner- once the change in stats happens, it remains for theentire game!
> Flayed ones - same stats but now have 2 weapons (flayer claws, AP5, shred)so have 4 attacks total.
> Triarch praetorians - 2 attacks instead of 1.
> Canoptek Wraiths - Toughness 5 instead of 4Destroyers (both versions) - 2 wounds instead of 1 (finally)
> Obelisk - 14 AV all around, instead of 12.
> The Phase shifter, which is now 4+ inv save instead of 3+, statesspecifically that it doesnt work on the catacomb Barge, just the Overlord.
> Death Ray - now is 24" S10, AP1, Heavy 1, Blast, LanceDoomsday cannon, +1 strength to both profiles (so 8/10)
> 
> Powers of the C'tan
> 
> Note that the datacards include a deck of the c'tan powers so you can shuffle those and draw a card instead of rolling.
> All powers are 24" except the Tesseract Vault which has a range of 48". Tesseract Vault powers are are the same strength and ap, but longer ranged and other changes noted below.
> 1. Powers of the C'tanAntimatter Meteor -S8 AP3 lg blast-Tesseract Vault Apoc Blast
> 2. Cosmic Fire - S6 AP4 lg blast ignores cover-Tesseract Vault Apoc blast ignores cover
> 3. Seismic Assault - S6 AP4 assault 10 strikedown-Tesseract Vault Assault 20 strikedown
> 4. Sky of Falling Stars - S7 AP4 assault 3 lg blast barrage-Tesseract Vault assault 6 apoc barrage
> 5. Time's Arrow - SD AP1 precision shot-Tesseract Vault assault 2 precision shots
> 6. Transdimensional Thunderbolt -S9 AP1 Tesla-Tesseract Vault assault 2 Tesla
> *Tesla: When firing this weapon a to hit roll of 6 causes 2 extra hits. Snap shots dont do extra hits.
> 
> Specifics about the C'tan
> 
> The C'tan are not generalized into one generic unit like some people are concerned. Each gets its own entry and costs around the same point costs of a Land Raider, with the Transcendent costing an extra 10pts which also carries with it an extra wound giving it a 5 wounds. I would of expected a higher toughness, but S7 and T7 is all around. Transcendent has an additional Strength.
> Powers of the C'tan work like this; Pick your target and then roll for power.
> All of them share some powers of eternal warrior, and fearless, Immune to natural law- ignoring terrain, and Necrodermis- 4++ and exploding on death-any models within d6" suffer S4 AP1 hits.
> The biggest differences are in their remaining powersNightbringer- fleshbane and Gaze of Death targets non-vehicles 12" and takes AP2 wounds equal to 3d6 minus leadership
> Deceiver- hit and run, Dread-enemy units within 12" -2 leadership, and Grand Illusion- after scouts redeploy d3 units within 12"and the deceiver through normal deployment or put in reserves.
> Transcendent- Deepstrike, and Writhing Worldscape- open ground in 6" is difficult terrain.


----------



## ntaw

I'm ok with Tesla losing the Snap Shot bonus if a normal to hit roll generates two extra hits instead of one.

I wonder how they have changed Arc for the NS version. Definitely ok with the change to the Death Ray.


----------



## MidnightSun

ntaw said:


> I'm ok with Tesla losing the Snap Shot bonus if a normal to hit roll generates two extra hits instead of one.


Isn't that the same as how it is now? Pretty sure 6s are worth 3 for Tesla as they stand.


----------



## Zion

A user over on the Tyranid Hive boards claims to have to codex: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/48760/new-necrons-codex?page=3

I'm posting by phone right now but will compile the info if no one else does it first.


----------



## MidnightSun

> Mindshackle Scarabs: Fear on 3D6 in Challenges
> Death Ray: 24" Str10 AP1, Blast, Lance
> Whipcoils: 3pts per model, Swiftstrike as per Nids book (+3 Initiative)





> Lychguard are 125 points for a squad of 5.
> 
> WS 4 BS 4 S 5 T 5 W 1 I 2 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 3+
> 
> Warscythe, Reanimation protocols. May select a night scythe as a dedicated trasnport.
> 
> The entire unit may exchange their warscythes for hyperphase swords and dispersion shields.





> Canoptek Scarabs are Fast Attack, 60 points.
> 
> WS2 BS2 S3 T3 W3 I2 A4 Ld10 Sv6+
> 
> May include up to six bases at 20 pts per base
> 
> Entropic Strike: To wound rolls of 6 wound automatically and cause glancing hits if they wouldn't penetrate
> 
> Fearless, Swarm





> Flayed Ones, Elites, 65 Points for 5 guys
> 
> WS4 BS4 S4 T4 Wi I2 A3 Ld10 Sv4+
> 
> May include up to 15 other Fllayed nes at 13 pts per model
> 
> Deep Strike, Fear, Infiltrate, Reanimation Protocols
> 
> Two Flayer Claws: AP 5, Shred





> Reclamation Deatchment (1+) =
> 
> 1 Overlord
> 0-2 Lychguard
> 1-4 Immortals
> 2-8 Necron Warriors
> 1-3 Tomb Blades
> 0-3 Monoloiths
> 
> 1-10 choices f the following per reclamation legion:
> 
> Judicator Battatlion=
> 1 unit of Triach Stalkers
> 2 units of Triarch Praetorians
> 
> Destroyer Cult=
> 1 Destroyer Lord
> 3 units of destroyers
> 0-1 units of heavy destroyers
> 
> Canoptek Harvest=
> 1 Canoptek Spyder
> 1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
> 1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
> 
> Star God=
> 1 C'Tan Shard f the Deceiver, Shard of the Nightbringer, Transcendent C'Tan or Tessaract Vault
> 
> Annihalation Nexus=
> 2 Annihilation Barges
> 1 Domsday Ark
> 
> Flayed Ones=
> 1 unit of Flayed Ones
> 
> Living Tomb=
> 1 Obelisk
> 0-2 Monoloths
> 
> Deathmarks=
> 1 unit of Deathmarks
> 
> Deathbringer Flight
> 2-4 Doomscythes


Dunno if I like it that Reanimation can be used against wounds that don't kill you, actually...


----------



## venomlust

> Mindshackle Scarabs: Fear on 3D6 in Challenges


BWAHAHAHA! Feel the pain of Chaos, you goofy robots! FEEEEEAR, so scaaaary!


----------



## Zion

RP used to work vs ID so that doesn't bother me.


----------



## MidnightSun

Oh, sure, it's not a balance thing or a continuity thing; I just think it's odd to find that a Necron who's not actually dead yet can resurrect himself...


----------



## Zion

MidnightSun said:


> Oh, sure, it's not a balance thing or a continuity thing; I just think it's odd to find that a Necron who's not actually dead yet can resurrect himself...


----------



## MidnightSun

> 2. Night Scythe is 130 points. They still have invasion beams.
> 
> 3. Gauss auto wounds on a 6, and auto glances on a 6. No double strength.
> 
> 4. Tomb Blades have twin linked gauss blasters. These can be exchanged with twin linked Tesla Carbines for free, or Particle Beamers for 2 points / model
> 
> 5. Anrakyr is 160 points.
> 
> 6. Triarch Praetorians are 140 points for a squad of 5. Their Rod of Covenant has a 12" range.
> 
> 7. The Doomsday Ark is Heavy Support (again, see my earlier post about Crons not using standard Force Org though). It still has t be stationary to fire.
> 
> 8. Monolith: 200 points.
> 
> 9. The Spyder can add a single Canoptek Scarab base to a scarab unit within 6", at the start of the movement phase, even if it raises it past the starting amount. Roll a D6 after that, and it takes a wound on a 1.
> 
> 10. Cryptek:
> 
> 65 points, HQ, Infantry (character)
> 
> WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 Iw A1 Ld10 Sv.4+
> 
> Staff of Light, may take a chronometron (25 points), may take items from Technoarcana or Artefacts of the Aeons
> 
> Reanimation Protocols
> 
> Technomancer: This model and all models with the Reanimation Protocols rule in his unit receive +1 to Reanimation Protocol rolls (posted the rules for RP earlier in the thread)


----------



## MidnightSun

> Catacomb Command Barge - HQ, 135 points
> 
> This is taken in place of your Overlord (he sits inside the thing) WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+
> 
> Catacomb Command Barge BS4, 11AV all around, HP3
> 
> Overlord has his usual stuff (staff of light, Reanimation, can buy extra wargear, etc.)
> 
> Catacomb Command Barge has a Gauss Cannon (can switch to Tesla Cannon), Quantum Shielding, and Living Metal.
> 
> Command Wave: All Necron friendlies within 12" re-roll failed morale, pinning, and fear tests. If the warlord in the barge has the Immortal Hubris trait (see earlier in thread), command wave range extends to 18".
> 
> Annihilation Barge - Heavy Support, 120 points
> 
> BS4, AV 11 all around, HP3
> 
> Gauss cannon (can switch to Tesla), Twin linked tesla destructor, Quantum shielding, Living Metal





> Destroyers are 40 points per destroyer, and upgrade to heavy destroyers for +10 points. Fast Attack, Jet Pack Infantry
> 
> WS4 BS4 S4 T5 W2 I2 A1 Ld10 Sv.3+
> (Heavy destroyers have the same Stat Line.)
> 
> Destroyers have a Gauss cannon, heavy destroyers have a heavy gauss cannon.
> 
> Preferred enemy, Reclamation Protocols, Very Bulky


----------



## Zion

> On the Doomsday Cannon:
> 
> Low Power 24", S8 AP3, Heavy, Blast
> 
> High Power 72" S10 AP1, Primary Weapon 1, Large Blast, Divert Power (must be stationary)
> 
> I don't see anything about Tomblades being able to increase armour save or jink.
> 
> Technoarcana is as follows:
> 
> Chronometron - The model and his unit have 5+ invuln. against shooting attacks
> 
> Dispersion shield - Model has 3+ invuln., cannot claim Two Weapon bonus
> 
> Fabricator Claw Array - During shooting phase, instead of shooting, a model with the claw can repair a single friendly vehicle in base contact. D6 roll: on a 4+, restore a hull point or repair weapon destroyed or immobilised result, effective immediately.
> 
> Gloom Prism - Model and all units within 12" have Adamantium Will.
> 
> Mindshackle Scarabs 10pts - During a challenge, model with the scarabs causes Fear. Ld. tests against the model are taken on 3D6.
> 
> Nebuloscope - model ignores cover when shooting
> 
> Phase Shifter 25pts - 4+ invuln. save, but only for the model and not any chariot it rides on
> 
> Phylactery 15pts - It Will Not Die, for both the model and any chariot it rides on
> 
> Resurrection Orb 25pts- Once per game, after an unsuccessful reanimation roll has been made for the model (or another model in the same unit), you can re-roll it and any other failed reanimation rolls (for the model and its unit) until end of phase.
> 
> 
> Shadowloom - +1 cover save (6+ in the open)
> 
> Shield Vanes - 3+ armour save
> 
> Artefacts of the Aeons
> 
> Gauntlet of Conflagrator 30pts- Template, S7 AP2, Assault 1, One Use Only
> 
> Nightmare Shroud 35pts- 2+ armour save and fear. Once per game can force enemy unit within 18" to take a morale check (Fearless and Know No Fear units are immune)
> 
> Orb of Eternity 40pts- See the Resurrection Orb above, except this also gives +1 to the reanimation rolls
> 
> Solar Staff 15pts- 12", S5 AP3, Assault 3, Blind, Solar Pulse
> Solar Pulse: Once per game, at the start of any turn, cancel night fighting for the turn. When activated, enemy units can only fire snap shots at the model and its unit until the staff bearer's next turn.
> 
> Veil of Darkness 25pts- Deep strike. Once per game, can remove itself and its unit from the table and immediately deep strike somewhere else (even if locked in assault)
> 
> Voidreaper 30pts- S+2 AP2, Melee, Armourbane, Fleshbane, Master Crafted, Two Handed
> 
> Anrakyr the Traveller:
> 
> 160 points, Character, HQ
> 
> WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+
> 
> Tachyon arrow and Warscythe
> 
> Warlord Trait is Implacable Conqueror (see earlier post in thread)
> 
> Counter-attack, Furious Charge, IC, Reanimation
> 
> Mind in the Machine: At start of shooting phase, choose an enemy vehicle within 12". On a 4+, randomly select one of that vehicle's weapons (no choosing one use weapons that have already been fired off though, or destroyed weapons) and shoot the weapon at another enemy unit. Use the vehicle's BS, unless it is stunned or shaken (then snap shots only). Tyranids laugh at this.
> 
> Pyrrhian Eternals - At start of game, before deployment, nominate one friendly unit of immortals. They have Furious charge and counter-attack.


----------



## Mossy Toes

Orb of Eternity+Cryptek. Hehehe. Even just a Cryptek in the "reroll 1s" Legion formation... RP is going to make Crons damned hard to get off the board, if their important units simply ignore half the wounds they take.

As for MSS: yaaaaaaaaaay!


----------



## falcoso

Mossy Toes said:


> Orb of Eternity+Cryptek. Hehehe. Even just a Cryptek in the "reroll 1s" Legion formation... RP is going to make Crons damned hard to get off the board, if their important units simply ignore half the wounds they take.
> 
> As for MSS: yaaaaaaaaaay!


Obr of eternity of a cryptek would be pointless in m opnion as they get +1 to reanimate anyway, so they are paying 40pts for a res orb effectively


----------



## Mossy Toes

falcoso said:


> Obr of eternity of a cryptek would be pointless in m opnion as they get +1 to reanimate anyway, so they are paying 40pts for a res orb effectively


It's not clear from the wording of these rumors if those +1s stack, and the Cryptek entry does specifically say that they can take artifacts. So a 3+ rerollable save for one phase? That'll save you at least 40 points worth of minis...


----------



## Zion

RP can't get better than a 4+ so the best the orb will do is give them a 4+ vs ID instead of a 5+.


----------



## ntaw

Mossy Toes said:


> It's not clear from the wording of these rumors if those +1s stack


I feel like the Eternity Orb will give a constant +1 and a once per game squad wide re-roll judging by the wording and point cost.

...and yeah. It's good that I haven't played my 'crons much because I have definitely been playing Tesla as only adding one extra hit.


----------



## The Sturk

Mindshackles being a 3D6 fear test is fine in theory...until you remember that half of the armies have ATSKNF.

Everything else seems ok...I like seeing 25pt Lychguard, definitely helps things. The point increase of the A-Barge will take getting used to, but was probably needed. Same goes for the Night Scythe, which fortunately still has the Invasion Beams rule.

Not sure what warranted a price increase for Scarabs though, considering they don't reduce AV anymore (though the sheer amount of attacks should wreck a vehicle just the same...)

I love seeing the revival of the old Gauss rule. Makes fighting certain Monstrous creatures possible.

As before, I don't see the point in taking the Res-Orb unless in either a large group of Warriors or an expensive unit like Lychguard.


----------



## venomlust

The Sturk said:


> Mindshackles being a 3D6 fear test is fine in theory...until you remember that half of the armies have ATSKNF.


Fear just seems to be their go-to USR for the "evil" guys these past two editions. As much as I joke about it being a Chaos problem, it obviously applies to more armies. 

The most frustrating application of this rule is in the Imperial Armour 13 book, where almost all of the Legacies of Ruin are Fear + some other decent rule (or not) for a pretty steep point cost. I actually like it in the Crimson Slaughter CSM supplement, where essentially it's Chapter Tactics: Fear. Every single unit has Fear, so there will inevitably be a time when it comes in handy. But paying points for it? Naaaah, not worth it.

Whaddya gonna do? Griping will accomplish nothing. Not that I'd let that hold me back. :laugh:

I'm not too familiar with Necrons, but based on these changes and some batreps I've seen it appears that they're a pretty damn good army. Tesla seemed pretty broken before, but I never observed the flyer spam that so many complained about. 

If I had the money, time, and inclination to start another army, it would definitely be Necrons.


*edit*

I do want to know, though: Is the Triarch Stalker still total shit, or has the new book made it more worthwhile?


----------



## The Sturk

I haven't seen much on the Triarch Stalker. The make or break point will be the point cost though, as many thought the 15 melta guns it cost before wasn't worth it.


----------



## MidnightSun

The Sturk said:


> Mindshackles being a 3D6 fear test is fine in theory...until you remember that half of the armies have ATSKNF.


I'd say that only applying in challenges is dumb as hell; the way it works, once he's in single combat the Necron dude can release scarabs which take the whole enemy unit down to WS1, but for some reason he doesn't want to use them if he's not fighting only one dude in a challenge. I don't get that.



The Sturk said:


> Everything else seems ok...I like seeing 25pt Lychguard, definitely helps things. The point increase of the A-Barge will take getting used to, but was probably needed. Same goes for the Night Scythe, which fortunately still has the Invasion Beams rule.


Yeah, but if you read what the rumour says exactly, Annihilation Barges (and indeed all Quantum Shielding vehicles) are now AV13/13/13 until they take a Pen which is *huge*. Losing some offensive output in not being able to Jink with impunity is totally worth a what, 30pt price increase and gaining immunity to most units in melee.



The Sturk said:


> Not sure what warranted a price increase for Scarabs though, considering they don't reduce AV anymore (though the sheer amount of attacks should wreck a vehicle just the same...)


Yeah, 20pts for that statline and 'I glance stuff on 6s' is no way worth it.



The Sturk said:


> As before, I don't see the point in taking the Res-Orb unless in either a large group of Warriors or an expensive unit like Lychguard.


Totally worth it on Lychguard - transport's still an issue, but take 10 with sword and board; attach a Cryptek with the Solar Staff to get a guaranteed turn of basically Invisibility; attach a Lord with a Res Orb for one turn of re-rolls; and suddenly, you've got a unit of T5 3+/3++ dudes with 4+ super-FnP with one turn of re-rolls and a turn of Invisibility. That's _insane_ tough; expensive, sure, but you can get away without adding the Res Orb (or bring a Lord with the Orb of Eternity; 300pts of Lychguard, and what I assume is around 100pts-110pts for a Lord with the Orb).

The hit to Tesla on Snap Shots and the increase in price on Barges isn't great, but Necrons seem to have gotten a tonne more resilient (and they were metric bastards before, unless you run them down to deny Reanimation - which you can't do any more).


----------



## Zion

> Okay, I am gonna try and answer a whole bunch of questions at once. For starters, I am gonna post some stats. Let's start with...
> 
> The Necron Characters -
> 
> Nemesor Zahndrekh (150 pts)
> 
> WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.2+
> 
> Staff of Light, Phase shifter
> 
> IC, Reanimation Protocols (RP), Eternal Madness Trait
> 
> Adaptive Tacticcs: May select a different Warlord Trait for him (no D6 roll needed) at start of each friendly turn after the first. May also select traits from the BRB. He cannot choose the same trait more than once per game.
> 
> Counter Tactics: When within 24" of enemy units with the following special rules: Counter attack, furious charge, hit & run, split fire, stealth, tank hunters - then Zahndrekh and his unit have the same special rules.
> 
> 
> Vargard Obyron (120 points)
> 
> WS6 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.2+
> 
> Warscythe
> 
> IC, RP
> 
> Vargard's Duty: Auto passes Init. test for glorious intervention
> 
> Cleaving Counterblow: When in a challenge, gains a bonus attack for each attack made by enemy character that fails to hit. Attacks are made at Init 1 step and does not grant additional pile in move
> 
> Illuminor Szeras (110 points)
> 
> WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I2 A4 Ld10 Sv3+
> 
> Fear, IC, RP, Immortal Hubris Trait
> 
> Eldritch Lance: 36", S8 AP2, Assault 1, Lance
> 
> Mechanical Augmentation: At start of game, before deployment, choose one unit of warriors or immortals. Nominated unit receives an upgrade for remainder of game. Roll D6-
> 
> 1-2: +1 Toughness
> 3-4: BS set to 5
> 5-6: Strength set to 5
> 
> Lord of Technomancy: This model and all friendly models with RP within 6" get +1 to RP rolls





> Orikan the Diviner (120 points)
> 
> WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I2 A2 Ld10 Sv.4+
> 
> (Orikan Empowered) WS5 BS5 S7 T7 W4 I4 A4 Ld10 Sv.4+
> 
> Phase Shifter, Staff of Tomorrow: S:User, AP2, Melee, Chronoblade (re-roll to hit rolls in assault)
> 
> Master Chronomancer: Model and all models in same unti get +1 to RP rolls, and re-roll armour saves of 1
> 
> The Stars are Right: Roll D6 at start of each friendly turn. If result is less than current turn number, Orikan uses his Empowered profile for rest of game. If he suffers a wound before becoming empowered, he has 3 wounds instead of 4 when empowered.
> 
> (For Anrakyr, see earlier in the thread)
> 
> Trazyn the Infinite (130 points)
> 
> WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+
> 
> Empathic Obliteration: S+2, AP4, Melee, Concussive, Psionic Shockwave: if a character is slain in a challenge by this weapon, all models within 6" of the character with the same faction (friend or foe) suffers a S4, AP- hit.
> 
> IC, RP, Enduring Will Trait
> 
> Surrogate Hosts: If Trazyn is removed as a casualty, roll a D6. On a 2+, choose another friendly, non unique Cron infantry character to be removed instead. Trazyn takes its place with D3 wounds remaining. If it was locked in assault, Teazyn is as well. If there are no available targets or a 1 is rolled, Trazyn is removed as a casualty.
> 
> Imotekh the Stormlord (190 points, LORD OF WAR)
> 
> WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.2+
> 
> Gauntlet of Fire, Phase Shifter, Staff of the Destroyer: 18", S6 AP2, Assault 3
> 
> IC, RP, It will not die, Hyperlogical Strategist trait
> 
> Lord of the Swarm: Night fighting is always in effect during first game turn. Once per game, at start of friendly shooting phase, roll a D6 for each enemy unit within 48" of Imootekh. On a 5+, that unit suffers D6 Strength 6 AP- hits, randomly allocated.
> 
> Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs: Flayed Ones can re-roll scatter dice when deep striking





> It does not say they [C'Tan] are limited to using it once per shooting phase.
> 
> The Reclamation Legion allows for 1 Overlord. In addition, you can take ONE Royal Court Formation per Reclamation Legion, which lets you take: 1 Overlord (or Imotekh), 1-3 Lords, 1-3 Crypteks.





> 1) For those asking about how many Lords, Crypteks, etc. you can take:
> 
> The Reclamation Legion formation allows for 1 Overlord. In addition, you can take ONE Royal Court Formation per Reclamation Legion, which lets you take: 1 Overlord (or Imotekh), 1-3 Lords, 1-3 Crypteks.
> 
> 2) Regarding the Destroyer Lord: 110 points, WS4 BS4 S5 T6 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+, Staff of Light, IC, RP, Preferred Enemy, and he can take the same upgrades regular Cron lords can.
> 
> 3) I made a serious mistake with Quantum Shielding, many apologies. The vehicle counts as AV13 on the Front and Side, *not all around* as I claimed earlier.
> 
> 4) There are significant differences between the three C'Tan Shards. What they have in common are Eternal Warrior, the powers of the C'Tan shooting, Necrodermis (4+ invuln and inflict a S4 AP1 hit for everyone within D6" when it dies) Fearless, and immunity to natural law (treat all terrain as open ground). Other than that:
> 
> Nightbringer (240 points, Elite)
> 
> WS6 BS4 S7 T7 W4 I4 A4 Ld10. Sv4+
> 
> Fleshbane, Gaze of Death: In addition to shooting Powers of the C'tan, can target one non-vehicle enemy within 12" and in LOS. Unit takes wounds of 3D6 - Ld, resolved at AP2 and Ignores Cover. Nightbringer restores one wound if a wound is inflicted.
> 
> Deceiver (240 points, Elite)
> (Stats same as Nightbringer, but -1 WS and +1 BS)
> 
> Hit & Run, Dread (enemy within 12" has -2 Ld.), Grand Illusion: After deployment and scout moves, remove Deceiver and up to D3 friendly units with 12" of it. Either immediately redploy them, or place them in reserve.
> 
> Transcendent C'Tan (250 points, Heavy Support)
> 
> (Stats same as Nightbringer, but -1 WS, +1 BS, +1 Strength, +1 wound)
> 
> Deep Strike, Writhing Worldscape: All enemy units within 6" treat open ground as difficult terrain
> 
> 5) Caoptek Wraiths have no Sempiternal Weave, whatever that is , but they still have their 3+ invuln if that's what you're asking





> Triarch Praetorians are still jump infantry. However, Wraiths are Beasts.





> 1. What has happened to deathmarks?
> 2. What are the 'ranged weapons' and 'melee weapons' that the overlord can take?
> 3. What has happened to the annihilation barge?
> 4. What has happened to the Spyder?
> 5. Do we have any skyfire/melta/haywire/lance?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Deathmarks are 18 points each, Elite infantry. Stats same as before. Deep strike and RP. They also have:
> 
> Hunters from Hyperspace: During the turn they arrive from Deep Strike, their shooting attacks wound on a 2+ regardless of toughness.
> 
> Ethereal Interception: If they are in Deep Strike Reserve when an enemy unit arrives using Deep Strike, they can immediately also arrive using the rules for Deep Strike, and it may immediately fire at any enemy unit that emerged from reserves that turn. If it does so, it cannot fire during your shooting phase next turn.
> 
> 2. Ranged: Gauntlet of Fire, Tachyon Arrow
> 
> Melee: Hyperphase sword, Voidblade, Warscythe
> 
> 3 & 4. Posted about the barge earlier in the thread, as with the Spyder. Not too different.
> 
> 5. Heat Ray is Melta. Don't see Skyfire, lance, or melta.
Click to expand...


----------



## Zion

From Freak Factory:









































































































More from the Tyranid Hive:


> Since destroyer lords became jet pack infantry, do you see any way to give lords or crypteks a jump pack? Kinda lame if praetorians can't have an IC keep up with them =\ for orb/cryptek bonuses.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, nope. Don't see a way. : /
Click to expand...




> is tesla destructor still assault 4 Fo 7 vp - ?
> is there any haywire?
> are wraith really T5 save 4++?
> do any unit other than warriors have the ghost ark as dedicated transport?
> is the Royal court formation a single unit or you can split them?
> 
> 
> 
> Tesla Destructor is 24", S7 AP-, Heavy 4
> No Haywire that I see
> Wraiths are T5 and 3+ Invuln
> Nope, only the warriors
> Royal Court like any formation consists of all those separate units
Click to expand...




> Canoptek Wraiths - 120 points (unit of 3)
> 
> WS4 BS4 S6 T5 W2 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv.3+
> 
> Fearless, Rending, Very Bulky
> 
> Wraith Form: Canptek Wraiths have 3+ Invuln. Save
> 
> Wraithflight: When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can mve over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it.
> 
> May include up to three additional Canoptek Wraiths (40 points per model)
> 
> Any model may take one of the following:
> 
> Whip Coils - 3 pts per model
> Particle caster - 5pts per model
> Transdimensional beamer - 10pts per model





> They [Ghost Arks] still repair D3 Warriors a turn





> unit warriors 5 or 10 minimum?
> catacomb comand barge Sweep Attack?
> 
> 
> 
> 10 minimum, and no sweep attack
Click to expand...




> Okay this sempiternal weave thing...I've been looking and looking, and maybe I'm blind, but I don't see it anywhere. Zilch. Nada.





> Destroyers (40 points, Fast Attack, Unit of 1)
> 
> Destroyer WS4 BS4 S4 T5 W2 I2 A1 Ld10 Sv.3+
> 
> Weapons: Gauss Cannon for Destroyer, Heavy Gauss Cannon for Heavy Destroyer
> 
> Preferred Enemy, Reanimation Protocols, Very Bulky
> 
> May include up to five additional destroyers for 40 points each
> May upgrade ONE destroyer to a heavy destroyer for 10 points


----------



## Zion

> Ranged Weapons:
> Gauntlet of Fire
> Tachyon Arrow
> 
> Melee Weapons:
> Hyperhpase Sword
> Voidblade
> Warscythe
> 
> Technoarcana:
> Mindshackle Scarabs
> Phylactery
> Ressurection Orb
> Phase Shifter
> 
> Artefacts:
> Solar Staff
> Veil of Darkness
> Gauntlet of the Conflagrator
> Voidreaper
> Nightmare Shroud
> Orb of Eternity





> Gauss Cannon: 24", S5 AP3, Heavy 2, Gauss
> Heavy Gauss Cannon: 36", S9, AP2, Heavy 1, Gauss





> - Hyperphase Sword profile?
> - Rod of the Covenant profile?
> - Do Ghost Arks have the Fast Attack logo in the to right corner (around the points)?
> - Same for Night Scythes?
> - Is the teseract vault a lord of war or if not what slot and point cost?
> - Is the trancendant C'tan a guarguantaun creature or just a monsterous creature?
> 
> 
> 
> - User strength, AP3
> - 12", S5 AP2, Assault 1
> - Yes it's Fast Attack
> - Fast Attack
> - Superheavy Vehicle, 550 pts
> - MC
Click to expand...




> There is NO Force Org chart in this book. It is entirely arranged around a bunch of formations.





> [Scarabs] are still beasts.


More from Freak Factory:


----------



## Zion

> Okay, about the formations. Once again peeps, there is NO Force Org Chart. The way they want you to build this army, apparently, is to clump a bunch of these formations together. This time I am also posting the Formation special rules.
> 
> Reclamation Legion (1+)
> 
> 1 Overlord
> 0-2 Lychguard
> 1-4 Immortals
> 2-8 Necron Warriors
> 1-3 Tomb Blades
> 0-3 Monoloiths
> 
> Special Rules: Moves Through Cover, Relentless
> You can re-roll reanimation rolls of 1 for the overlord, or units within 12" of him
> 
> 1-10 choices of the following per reclamation legion:
> 
> (0 to 1) Royal Court=
> 1 Overlord
> 1-3 Lords
> 1-3 Crypteks
> 
> Special Rules: Move through cover, relentless
> If overlord for this formation is your warlord, you can re-roll warlord traits when using Codex Cron warlord traits table.
> 
> Judicator Battatlion=
> 1 unit of Triach Stalkers
> 2 units of Triarch Praetorians
> 
> Special Rules: Move Through Cover
> At start of shooting phase, pick an enemy within LOS of Triarch Stalker. Re-roll failed to hit, to wound, and armour penetration rolls against the target until end of turn.
> 
> Destroyer Cult=
> 1 Destroyer Lord
> 3 units of destroyers
> 0-1 units of heavy destroyers
> 
> Special Rules: Move through cover
> If this formation is your primary detachment, can re-roll for Warlord Traits
> Units in this formation re-roll failed to wound and armour penetration rolls
> 
> Canoptek Harvest=
> 1 Canoptek Spyder
> 1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
> 1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs
> 
> Special Rules: Move Through Cover, Relentless
> At start of Movement phase, can gain Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, or Shred. Spyder and all formation units within 12" gain those special rules until your next movement phase.
> 
> 
> Star God=
> 1 C'Tan Shard f the Deceiver, Shard of the Nightbringer, Transcendent C'Tan or Tessaract Vault
> 
> Annihalation Nexus=
> 2 Annihilation Barges
> 1 Domsday Ark
> 
> Special Rules:
> If Doomsday Ark from this formation loses it's quantum shielding, choose an annihilation barge within 6". The barge loses its quantum shielding, and the Doomsday ark gets Quantum shielding instead.
> 
> Flayed Ones=
> 1 unit of Flayed Ones
> 
> Living Tomb=
> 1 Obelisk
> 0-2 Monoloths
> 
> Special Rules: Formation must be placed in Deep Strike reserve. Do not make reserve rlls fr the Obelisk, it automatically arrives on your turn 2. Monoliths do not scatter when deep striking if placed within 12" of the Obelisk.
> Immediately after a Monoloths arrives frm this formation, choose one friendly Cron unit nthat is entirely infantry or jump infantry that is in reserve. Place it as though disembarking from the Monolith's eternity gate.
> 
> Deathmarks=
> 1 unit of Deathmarks
> 
> Deathbringer Flight
> 2-4 Doomscythes
> 
> Special Rules:
> When Doom Scythe from this formation fires a death ray, add 2 to BS for each other Doom Scythe from this formation that shot at the enemy this turn.
> All enemy units within 12" of at least two Doom Scythes from this formation have -1 Ld.


I don't see this preventing the use of Leviathan or the CAD as alternatives though.



> Forces of the Necrons:
> 
> "If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Deatchments...
> 
> ...the Necron Decurion Detachment is a special type of Detachment that can be included in any Battle forged army. Unlike the detachhments shown in WH40K: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are a combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles."


Don't see this being too big of an issue since all of the units seem to have FOC labels still making them usable in standard FOCs.



> 25 pts for phase shifter, 15 pts for phylactery.


----------



## Zion

> If you are using the Unbound method, simply use the datasheets later in this section that correspond to the Necron models in your collection. If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the Necron models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied detachments. Note that you can also include any of the formations presented in this section as part of a battle-forged army.
> 
> Furthermore, the Necron Decurion Deachment is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle-forged army. Unlike the detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a force organisation chart whose slots are combination of specific formations and army list entries instead of battlefield roles. However, it still has compulsory and optional elements, as well as restrictions and command benefits, just like any other detachment.
> 
> Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment, units from a formation that is part of a Necrn Decurion Detachment are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment, and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If your warlord is part of a formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a decurion detachment, that entire decurion detachment is your primary detachment.


Yup, looks like old FOC options are still options.

More from Freak Factory:

























































Last one from Jackedup for now:


> Tomb Blades (54 points, Fast Attack, unit of 3)
> 
> WS4 BS4 S4 T5 W1 I2 A1 Ld10 Sv.4+
> 
> Twin linked gauss blasters
> 
> Reanimation Protocols
> 
> May include up to sevena dditional tomb blades (18 pts per model)
> Any model may exchange twin linked gauss blasters fr twin linked tesla carbines(free) or particle beamers (2 pts per model)
> Any model may take shieldvanes (2 pts per model)
> Any model may take one of the following: Shadowloom (1pt per model), Nebulosocope (2 pts per model)
> 
> Warriors and Immortals can use Night Scythes as a dedicated transport.
> 
> The fluff in the Codex seems okay to me, if a bit simplistic (evil tomb kings in space) but I did not read the 5th Ed one.
> 
> Gauntlet of Fire: Template, S4 AP5, Assault 1
> 
> Void Blade: User Strength, AP4, Entropic Strike, Rending


----------



## Serpion5

In most cases now the c'tan have gotten cheaper and picked up eternal warrior. Given that it is no extra cost for their powers, I'd say they are definitely worth using now. I'm also loving the changes across the board. Good, but not ridiculous.


----------



## Zion

Serpion5 said:


> In most cases now the c'tan have gotten cheaper and picked up eternal warrior. Given that it is no extra cost for their powers, I'd say they are definitely worth using now. I'm also loving the changes across the board. Good, but not ridiculous.


Yeah, it's looking a lot more balanced overall and I like that a lot.


----------



## Zion

More from Freak Factory:


----------



## LukeValantine

Look like the main theme of this codex is nerfing the stuff people hated (Stuff that was abused), and enhancing the units that no one liked. 

Important nerfs
-Mind shackle scarabs now cause fear (Which is a shitty rule that a lot of armies are immune to)
-Whip coils now give the far less impressive +3 int (Meaning you can waste points on something that doesn't even guarantee that you will go first). Mind you with their now insane str characteristic they also hit a lot harder.
-Septeminal weave and +3inv/warscthe are now gone (Keeping in mind that the later cost so much that most people didn't use it anyways)
-Can only snap shot when disembarking from a night scythe (So in other words its mobility is almost entirely for positioning as having constant shaken result on passengers cripples them the turn they arrive). Mind you this kind of had to be done.

Important boosts
-Some independent characters are now far more effective
-Lots of units are cheaper or have better special rules/wargear
-Flayed ones got a noticeable boost (Models will still rarely see use as they are slow and prohibitively expensive for a melee unit)
-C'tan are once again one of the most powerful none lords of war units.
-Beamers now have a use besides trying to one shot units on failed characteristic checks. And now act more like a regular weapon that has a random chance to instant kill multi-wound models (Keeping in mind that they now get all relevant saves, and it no longer words on models that have eternal warriors, so really the change is more of a breaks even kind of thing)


----------



## MidnightSun

LukeValantine said:


> -Mind shackle scarabs now cause fear (Which is a shitty rule that a lot of armies are immune to)


And only in challenges, which is hilarious.



LukeValantine said:


> -Whip coils now give the far less impressive +3 int (Meaning you can waste points on something that doesn't even guarantee that you will go first). Mind you with their now insane str characteristic they also hit a lot harder.


But they're cheap and let you go before everything but Eldar, Slaanesh Daemons and characters. Wraiths were always strength 6 - it's the added Fleet and T5 for no additional cost (as well as a formation to give them Reanimation!) that's the real kicker that makes Wraiths _amazing_.



LukeValantine said:


> -Septeminal weave and +3inv/warscthe are now gone (Mind you he later cost so much that most people didn't use it anyways)t


I'm pretty sure the Overlord can still bring a Warscythe (and going from AP1 to AP2 isn't exactly a huge nerf) and with Reanimation being a strong rule that got made even better, I don't think that's a huge issue (you've got 3+/4++/5+++ with potential for re-rolls or +1 from a Cryptek; bear in mind you activate your Res Orb after you've seen the results of your Reanimation, so you can pop it when you die for a second chance at making your saves).



LukeValantine said:


> -Can only snap shot when disembarking from a night scythe (So in other words its mobility is almost entirely for positioning as having constant shaken result on passengers cripples them the turn they arrive). Mind you this kind of had to be done.


Invasion Beams haven't changed - if you move 18" to 24", you don't Snap Shot when you disembark; it's only if you zoom your 36" then disembark that you get Snap Shots.

I'd add to the list that Scarabs got a lot more expensive, but lost the 'I instantly destroy all vehicles ever' effect that Entropic was before.



LukeValantine said:


> Important boosts
> -Some independent characters are now far more effective


I dare say all of them except Trazyn are vastly better. Those points costs are crazy-low, and I particularly like how Szeras is relevant now (bubble Reanimation buffs are tasty tasty).



LukeValantine said:


> -Lots of units are cheaper or have better special rules/wargear


Lychguard price cuts in particular are frankly ludicrous.



LukeValantine said:


> -C'tan are once again of the most powerful none lords of war units.


Eh, I want to see them in action before I judge. They have the makings of a decent monster (T7 is pretty strong), but only 4 wounds and a 4++? For 250pts? That's a *hell* of a lot of points.

I'd add other things to the list, but there's way too many things that have been made a lot better to even begin. Reanimation alone is huge.


----------



## Zion

Source unknown:


----------



## LukeValantine

Also I love the changes to destroyers as they were kind of garbage this current edition. Which is a shame as I own like ten of the damn things, but things are looking good for them actually being useful.


----------



## The Sturk

Wraiths are fucking terrifying now. Their biggest weakness before was bolters, and now it is mitigated mostly by T5. And at what cost? 5 points more expensive. And they kept everything else that made them terrifying, including the 3++...There is no reason not to use them now.

I also like how Tomb Blades were buffed by the point decreases for them and their gear. And to have their 3+, it will make them cost 2 melta guns each. That Tomb Blade Tax for the decursion formation isn't looking that bad now.

And I love the addition to the Ethereal Interception rule for Deathmarks. This is what it should have been in the previous codex and is the perfect counter to a melta-cide drop.


----------



## Zion




----------



## Words_of_Truth

When is the codex out, this weekend?


----------



## Zion

Words_of_Truth said:


> When is the codex out, this weekend?


Yup.


----------



## ntaw

Forgive me if I have missed this/am asking a super noob question, but what's the difference between _Transcendent_ and _Coalescent_ C'tan and how do the C'Tan Shards (Deceiver/Nightbringer) play into that? I mean, the green Transcendent one that's in the picture/bestiary entry is pretty straightforward, are the other two the Coalescent ones or is that the massive model that covers half the table with the green guy inside?


----------



## The Sturk

I don't even know what the Coalescent C'tan is. The massive model with a C'tan inside it is the Tesseract Vault.


----------



## Serpion5

Transcendant powers are the c'tan default powers. The coalescent powers are the juiced up versions bestowed by the tesseract vault.


----------



## Zion

Serpion5 said:


> Transcendant powers are the c'tan default powers. The coalescent powers are the juiced up versions bestowed by the tesseract vault.


Exactly. The C'Tan Shards all use the Transcendent powers, the Vault uses the Coalescent.


----------



## Serpion5

Has there been any leakage on the new fluff yet? 

I'm interested to see if the necrons got their ftl tech back, or at least some alternative to the webway. The latest novel describes the Dolmen Gate as their "last resort" so I'd like to see whether or not they have had better space flight ability added to their fluff.


----------



## Zion

Serpion5 said:


> Has there been any leakage on the new fluff yet?
> 
> I'm interested to see if the necrons got their ftl tech back, or at least some alternative to the webway. The latest novel describes the Dolmen Gate as their "last resort" so I'd like to see whether or not they have had better space flight ability added to their fluff.


Nothing yet. Probably won't see a leak as people are pushing for rules over anything else at the moment.


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## Zion




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## Zion




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## MidnightSun

Not sure I needed a video guide for 'leadbelcher base, nuln oil wash, seraphim sepia in the recesses, green details', but the Overlord guide is nice. I like the video tutorials.


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## ntaw

Video tutorials are nice, though I agree with regards to Necrons and the simplicity of their general scheme. I'd love to see tutorials on trickier units like vehicles for Necrons, to see how them fancy GW painters tackle (what I find to be) their strangeness of details.

I'd also love to see some Thokt love from this new Codex! I've been going off one Warrior and one Immortal for everything I've done so far, but my limited skills in painting make it nerve wracking to attempt other things I have no basis for comparison for.


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## Zion

MidnightSun said:


> Not sure I needed a video guide for 'leadbelcher base, nuln oil wash, seraphim sepia in the recesses, green details', but the Overlord guide is nice. I like the video tutorials.


While true, it's a nice video for beginners, and I like the effect his method achieves.


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## ntaw

Just reading over the Codex now, there is no Detachment for the 'Crons like the Nemesis or Baal Strike Force but only the Decurion Detachment information which is a series of Formations that you can potentially take large groups of units in. It seems like the benefit for having a Decurion Detachment stacks with the benefits of the Formations you include as outlined at the back of the book (offering you dual RP bonuses for the Reclamation Legion, both army wide and Overlord specific), the catch is that the Decurion Detachment requires that for each Core choice you have to include 1-10 Auxiliary choices (ie. more models). You can however not choose to take a Decurion Detachment (and forgo the army-wide RP bonus) and just take the Formations as listed in the back of the book and still have a Battle Forged army as per the standard Formation rules in the BRB. 

In short, the book has tons of Formations and if you take them as a Decurion Detachment instead of groups of Formations you get an extra bonus to your RP rolls army wide and your Living Metal ignores Crew Shaken/Stunned. It's cool to see such a vast expanse of special rules, but it totally pigeonholes people into buying more stuff to fill out potentially empty pockets of formation unit requirements unless they want to play without any army flavour and just stick to Combined Arms/Allied Detachments as per the BRB.

For example, if I don't buy Tomb Blades (which I never thought of or wanted in my army, really) I don't get to capitalize on fuck all for RP manipulation from Detachment rules. Furthermore, if I wanted to add only one unit selection of any type I would continue to keep those special rules at arms reach.

....I'm really not sure how I feel about it to be honest with you. Here's a TON of character to add in to your army but only if you can buy all the models GW thinks you should have to capitalize on them.

And they're not going to give you access to any consolation prize rules by giving you an actual alternative to the Combined Arms Detachment, just Formations. Seems pretty damn limiting for Necron players.


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## Zion

Don't forget there is the Mephrit detachment in Exterminatus @ntaw.


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## MidnightSun

ntaw said:


> And they're not going to give you access to any consolation prize rules by giving you an actual alternative to the Combined Arms Detachment, just Formations. Seems pretty damn limiting for Necron players.


On the other hand, Ever-Living is an _insane_ Command Benefit, and a Reclamation Legion + Canoptek Harvests and Annihilation Nexus formations is basically all the stuff you'd want anyway (the Nexus is not ideal, perhaps, but the Harvest is _amazing_).

And, as said, you can just bring a Mephrit Dynasty/Combined Arms and then add the formations you want (although the only one you'd willingly bring outside of a Decurion is probably the Harvest).


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## Vaz

What on earth... This is the best damn way to build an army.

Now you bonuses on top of bonuses for taking particular unit combinations.

This is essentially giving you bonuses for playing Unbound, with a small 500pt unit tax.


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## ntaw

To be fair I didn't know about the Mephrit Dynasty Detachment at all. I don't buy the campaign books because I'm rarely that interested in them (or carrying around a library to play the game), though I'm coming to see that they do sometimes add very relevant rules to the game. The Formations are sweet but I've always been turned off by them (for any army) because it feels like I'm playing GW's army and not my own. I guess I'll have to check this book out and see what's up with this Mephrit Detachment.

@Zion thanks for pointing that out, as I mentioned I had no idea it existed. Unfortunately though, the book costs more than a box of Tomb Blades and it still feels like a cash grab when they already have my cash. Way she goes, I know, and it doesn't make a difference how I feel about it...but I think it sucks. I'll still collect Necrons and be happy playing them, maybe I'll even come to like the Tomb Blades that I'll inevitably buy (since I won't be spending $80 on a book for a page of rules on a Detachment to use in games). Ultimately it's just one more thing GW's done/doing that is making me buy into other game systems and slow down this one. I had much larger aspirations for my BA and Cron armies before they got updated books, now I just want to round out what units I have and paint.


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## Zion

Vaz said:


> What on earth... This is the best damn way to build an army.
> 
> Now you bonuses on top of bonuses for taking particular unit combinations.
> 
> This is essentially giving you bonuses for playing Unbound, with a small 500pt unit tax.


I wouldn't call this "unbound" since the rules for it make a distinction between the Decurion and Unbound.



ntaw said:


> To be fair I didn't know about the Mephrit Dynasty Detachment at all. I don't buy the campaign books because I'm rarely that interested in them (or carrying around a library to play the game), though I'm coming to see that they do sometimes add very relevant rules to the game. The Formations are sweet but I've always been turned off by them (for any army) because it feels like I'm playing GW's army and not my own. I guess I'll have to check this book out and see what's up with this Mephrit Detachment.
> 
> @Zion thanks for pointing that out, as I mentioned I had no idea it existed. Unfortunately though, the book costs more than a box of Tomb Blades and it still feels like a cash grab when they already have my cash. Way she goes, I know, and it doesn't make a difference how I feel about it...but I think it sucks. I'll still collect Necrons and be happy playing them, maybe I'll even come to like the Tomb Blades that I'll inevitably buy (since I won't be spending $80 on a book for a page of rules on a Detachment to use in games). Ultimately it's just one more thing GW's done/doing that is making me buy into other game systems and slow down this one. I had much larger aspirations for my BA and Cron armies before they got updated books, now I just want to round out what units I have and paint.


Mephrit adds 3 additional relics, a different Warlord table and a non-standard FOC (1 HQ, 3 Troops to start and can take up to 1 more HQ, 5 more Troops, 3 Elite, 3 FA, 3HS, 1 LoW, 1 Fortification. It lets you re-roll 1s on Reanimation Proticols and re-roll on the Mephrit Warlord chart) that doesn't let you use the Tesseract Vault. It also has a couple of formations as well (the C'Tan one is a C'Tan and 2 Crypteks, and one of the Relics gives the C'Tan +1S/T while the Cryptek carrying it is alive).


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## falcoso

ntaw said:


> maybe I'll even come to like the Tomb Blades that I'll inevitably buy (since I won't be spending $80 on a book for a page of rules on a Detachment to use in games)


Although tomb blades are considerably better in the new book, and I would happily take them over immortals any day (3pts more for twin link tr 5 Ap 4 rapid fire guns that ignore cover? Yeah that works pretty nicely).

Though I appreciate you point. For instance I have alsways like destroyer lords, yet to take one i have to have 9 other destroyers in my list, which is totally excessive. Or a roayl court which requires a second overlord to get access to and you have to take a lord AND cryptek, when in fact a cryptek is practically irrelevant in a decurion (though totally worth it in any other detachment)


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## ntaw

falcoso said:


> Although tomb blades are considerably better in the new book, and I would happily take them over immortals any day


Except Tomb Blades are FA and Immortals are Troops, fulfilling different roles within your FOC. I would've been completely fine with a compulsory 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 FA Detachment...I love my Scarabs!



falcoso said:


> when in fact a cryptek is practically irrelevant in a decurion (though totally worth it in any other detachment)


There is worth. His extra bonus to RPs keeps them rolling at 4+ when wounded by Instant Death weapons, which otherwise reduce RP rolls by 1. It took me a while to figure out why they said bonuses were cumulative but can never increase past 4+, this is at least one example of why the +2 bonus is nice.

EDIT: I have this wrong. Instant Death is a -1 modifier to your dice after they roll for RP, not to the RP roll. I'm still trying to figure out why RP bonuses are cumulative...


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## falcoso

ntaw said:


> Except Tomb Blades are FA and Immortals are Troops, fulfilling different roles within your FOC. I would've been completely fine with a compulsory 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 FA Detachment...I love my Scarabs!
> 
> EDIT: I have this wrong. Instant Death is a -1 modifier to your dice after they roll for RP, not to the RP roll. I'm still trying to figure out why RP bonuses are cumulative...


True though in a decurion FoC role is irrelevent, I mean I see it more like an HQ 2 troops and slightly better troops for slightly more points 

OH yeah, I always assumed it would just apply to when Cryptek+Everliving with an ID weapon. Though its worded ambiguously IMO. Though it also says that certain rules apply modifiers to 'this dice roll' so when it says +1 to RP that is +1 to the roll for RP so would work in the way we originally thought.


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## ntaw

falcoso said:


> Though its worded ambiguously IMO.


I don't think it's very ambiguous, it states specifically that RP modifiers stack and that Instant Death weapons give you -1 to the dice after they are rolled if the weapons causing the wound also causes Instant Death. The thing that doesn't seem to surface is why, exactly, RP bonuses stack if they cannot be improved past a 4+.


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