# Blackadder's Scratchbuilt Thunderhawk



## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I know I promised a Warlord Titan but due to a lack of reliable scale and dimension data that project is on hold. This project in it's present form has been kicked around my basement for a couple of years and it is high time to put the effort into bringing it to fruition.

The Thunderhawk is probably my least favorite Imperial vehicle but I have come across a set of images that make it look relatively attractive and more important, viable as a real world aircraft. I'll be posting these images later. Right now I'm posting this poor beastie as she is being recently exhumed from my cellar.

The basic hull is built of 1/2 inch foam filled posterboard.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The first order of business is to provide a set of lifting devices. I hesitate to call them wings because there isn't any airfoil.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Looking good so far!


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## LordOfAbsolution (Jul 22, 2009)

What have you got in mind for the engines? I've been working on building one myself but every other one I've seen uses the pod races engines, but alas I can't find any online.


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## piemaster (Oct 9, 2009)

Yars! Can't wait to see this baby progress. Subscribed and awaiting serious hobbyage.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

LordOfAbsolution said:


> What have you got in mind for the engines? I've been working on building one myself but every other one I've seen uses the pod races engines, but alas I can't find any online.


Thanks for all the replies I beg your indulgence but I'll address my answer to this reply as there is nothing I appreciate more than a good solid question. 

I don't know if you've seen my other threads but I alway opt to build as much as I can from scratch. These engines posed a threat to that obsession until I bit the bullet and started to sculpt the intake cowlings. I started with a piece of 42.5 MM PVC 24 MM long, inserting an undersized piece of scrap tubing I sculpted on my belt sander what seems to me a reasonable copy of a Thunderhawk engine cowling. The harder part was duplicating the first effort.

Once I had the outer cowlings accomplished to my satisfaction I addressed the inner contours. Taking the next size smaller PVC tubing I drum rasped out with my Dremel cordless drill (What a fantastic tool I heartily recommend it) the rough inner contours. Then with the sanding drum bit smoothed out the rough spots. I cut a slit in the tubing so it would fit into the outer cowl ring and there was the two engine intakes.

The next problem was how to mount the engine on the wing without weakening the wing structure. My solution was to split a piece of PCV tubing down the middle and sanding it until I had two halves that could be adhered to the top and bottom of the wing. A PVC ring mounted behind the cowl slips over the two pieces of the engine body and holds them tight to the wing in front. For the rear clamp I use a cut down thread cone (Most tailors throw them away by the dozens and will probably give them to you.) The thread cone has a unique texture which appeals to me for a engine exhaust especially since there is a lot of detail that must be added to make it finished.

The thread cone slips onto the rear of the engine body segments and there it is the basic engine form. Of course there still is a tremendous amount of detail to add but hell, that's the fun part.

HTH

BTW ignore the crenelated piece behind the cowl. That was a failed idea.


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## Arkeanixii (Apr 8, 2009)

great thunder Chicken so far


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Below are the engines mounted but not glued onto the wings. 

So far it's satisfactory:


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I came across these 3D images.

I don't know who this artist is but I want to have his baby (Well build his baby anyway.) He has actually made a Thunderhawk look not only attractive but downright viable. 

Below are 3D renderings from this artist which while not 100% FW exact are a tremendous improvement on the original and will be my guide from now on.

Note that the last image is of the heretofore not seen belly of the beast.


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## Kharnas (Oct 24, 2009)

OK the 3D artist must come forward, we must clone them or cryo them for future use:security:

Really like the work so far, will be watching intently so that i may try to replicate your fine work, well, try untill I superglue it all into a football of foam and fingers and give up.


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## Phenious (Jun 10, 2009)

That is a very high level of detail. I would guess about two weeks straight worth of work in Maya or Cinema 4D. Really detailed, modeling in 3D was my favorite thing in school, animating not so much (freaking Bones not attaching to the skin right). You better do this image justice or we will hunt you down and I don't know . . . . . . . tickle you or something.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The following is an exchange I had with Lynks on another forum. It pays to shop around 



lynks said:


> The reason the one i linked is made entirely out of GW plastic kits is that a GW store made it and it was a challenge to see if it was possible.
> You seem to have gotten most of the shape right, however I think that the front lower section needs to be longer. As for the wings they seem to be working fine at the moment, the Thunderhawk itself does have some pretty thick wings


Thanks for the heads up. The problem is the forward cargo bay is too high or deep at any rate it look about a half to an inch should be removed from the bottom. I made a bad assumption that the plans my son worked from were scale without checking. Now that the hull is partially sheathed the discrepancy is more noticeable. By superimposing my model profile onto the three profile images I have I see where the discrepancy lies. I am efforting to remedy this as we speak and I am in your debt.





Which all goes to prove one shouldn't make assumptions.

The red faced Blackadder


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## Salio (Mar 29, 2009)

It looks spectacular so far! I envy your patience with the model and I can't wait to see it finished. Great work.


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## piemaster (Oct 9, 2009)

Those plans are really detailed and there are some really good angles of it too. I notice the 3D version doesn't have curved wings. Will you follow this or use artistic license?


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Impressive work so far blackadder. I gather you will be working to the same crazy amount of detail you put into lucie. Should be better than the fw original. You are right about the 3d model too. Most impressive. We need to find the chap who produced that so we can at the very least commend him. Most repworthy work as usual.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The problem with the internet is we are all in relative anonymity for various reasons. The down side of this is we don't get credit for the work we do. That weaselly little miscreant Blackadder gets the credit for my modeling efforts


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Since this beastie will have a full interior of the cargo bay including the side hatches I have to be careful all is right dimension wise. I am taking meticulous care building the nose hatch/ramp.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I've been real busy at work this week not much to show for it. Yesterday I started on the cargo bay interior. Getting smarter in my old age I'm building the interior first so I don't have to work inside out.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm going to stick with the cargo bay cockpit and under the air brake flaps. That should be sufficient. I know there is a wealth of detail in the FW kit, (They should invest some of that energy in making their moulds stable.) but what I have seen in most of the resin kits I've rescued is that the hatches are glued shut, the doors are inoperable and if there is a panel that can be removed to veiw some internal component it is invariably cemented in place for eternity. 

Not so with the Jumbo 'hawk; the interior is coming along nicely but is a chore. Sometimes I wonder why I start these things, they monopolize a lot of time plus I ran out of crucial styrene for the floor ribs and had to make a hobby shop run this morning. I thought I'd never find a use for this size strip but I ran out two strips short of finishing and had to buy more. Now I have more than when I started. (Poor baby Blackadder.) 

Any way the floor is done and the side panels are clamped in place but I won't be gluing just yet because I still haven't figured out where the landing gear cylinder goes when the nose gear is retracted. Someone's in for a bit of a shock when that nose gear bursts thru the cargo compartment floor (All together now, "Poor engineering planning FW, nowheres near as well thought out as the Warhound. And where are the actuators for the forward cargo hatch/ramp?) All these problems will have to be addressed before the interior detail can be affixed

Here's the result of a mis-spent Saturday morning:


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Looking great and those 3d renders are flipping awesome. If I ever build one I may do a wingless version, making it a true VTOL


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Designing a viable landing gear was paramount on my mind for the past weekend until I saw this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7u8_r07-3s&feature=youtu.be

On further watching the video I see that both forward and back actuators pivot on both ends and double as hydraulic cylinders to extend the pad and shock struts (No small feat of engineering that!) but when the strut is full extended down the front and rear cylinders become shock struts and are able to compress and absorb the landing shock.

And very little room is taken up when fully retracted.

Below is my interpretation of the landing gear mechanism:



My solution to the landing gear dilemma:



This model should be much simpler than the Warhound. Not having to design positionable joints strong enough to take the movement but still be the proper size so as not to look ungainly was extremely difficult with Lucie and took a lot of time. I had to rebuild the joints a few times until they were satisfactory. This retractable landing gear problem was a much easier nut to crack once I saw the scissor mechanism displayed in the video. My problem was not thinking outside the box. A background in aircraft experience would not allow me to think of an dual oleo strut/hydraulic cylinder combination (I still question the feasibility of such an appliance?) but the manufacture should be child's play compared to Lucie's toe joints; I still have nightmares about those. #-o. I may use a spring mechanism and trigger lock to deploy the gear so they do not collapse when sitting on them and not have to be pried out of the wheel well each time they are to be lowered. I'm thinking ball point pen springs should be sufficient. Once I get the proportions right on this beastie it will be a simple matter of gluing on all the fabulous detail exhibited in those 3D drawings above.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

As you can see my vision of the Thunderhawk is slightly larger than the FW offering. My first impression of the Thunderhawk concept was that it be capable of carrying a Rhino. After all for what else would be the purpose of such a huge loading door? Imagine my disappointment when I found the FW Thunderhawk too diminutive to disgorge even so small a tank as a Rhino. I am still mulling over the necessity of hinging the forward side panels to allow more clearance; hell I probably shall in the end not being satisfied with compromising measures. Image the dramatic effect when your Thunderhawk glides to a touchdown, the ramp drops, the side doors open, and it vomits forth an APC. 





Sweet!


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## Blue (Dec 7, 2010)

Nice work dude, the interior details look great so far!


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Thanks, 

Starting on the ramp because I need to install the hinge tube before I can apply the nose armour. Below is a practical demonstration of how to make ribbed flooring.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Part of the fun of scratchbuilding (If you have a penchant for masochism that is.) is inventing ways to replicate in stock styrene the intricacies of injection mould plastic kits etc. There were two ways to approach the manufacture of the object below. One was to attempt to cut the slots in a single piece of sheet plastic and glue it onto a backing. I rejected that straight out because the finished product regardless of the care exercised would be crude and amateurish. The second, the option I chose was to build the corrugations one slat at a time as demonstrated in the previous reply, score the perpendicular channels with a sharp utility knife, widen and deepen the score with a razor saw, and shave out the residue with a chisel bladed Exacto knife. This worked well for the wide center longitudinal reinforcement but how to make the narrow side reinforcements? Start as before with the score and the razor saw to accomplish the primary cut. Then taking your razor saw at a 45° angle carefully widen the score to the required width. If you have jewelers files you can dress the sides of the channels but in this case it was not necessary. 

Now I'll see if I can repeat the process on the other side without screwing the damned thing up.



Then taking your razor saw at a 45° angle carefully widen the score to the required width. If you have jewelers files you can dress the sides of the channels but in this case it was not necessary. 

Pictured below are the only tools necessary to accomplish this exercise . Had I to do this over again I would have angled the side channels slightly out at the bottom to dispel the illusion that they converge.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Considering it took the better part of a week just to make the loading ramp fruition will be a long time coming. In my defense my workload this week was extremely heavy and I could only devote a half hour in the morning to working on the ramp. Each slats had to be secure before the next could be applied or they would move when the spacer was run between them. I also managed to apply the outer skin (1 MM sheet styrene) to the forward hull. I finished up the ramp this morning and taped it into place. Everything is square and true so tomorrow I will start applying the forward armour. This will be the fun part when the model starts to look like something other than a long white shoebox. Right now I am sitting back sipping a well deserved Martini and reflecting on a satisfactory accomplishment.





My patience is holding strong and the worst of the build is behind me now it's just a matter of detail, the part I relish.


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## piemaster (Oct 9, 2009)

I think everything is coming along nicely. I think that the landing gear is somewhat problematic but I also thought you wanted to build something that would be comparable to the forge world model. I do however recognise that artistic license is a good thing. Have you considered making the floor deeper and to have the landing gear located in this space and not outwith the hull as in your concept designs? It may look more like the original but could be more work as you alter the dimensions.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

piemaster said:


> I think everything is coming along nicely. I think that the landing gear is somewhat problematic but I also thought you wanted to build something that would be comparable to the forge world model. I do however recognise that artistic license is a good thing. Have you considered making the floor deeper and to have the landing gear located in this space and not outwith the hull as in your concept designs? It may look more like the original but could be more work as you alter the dimensions.


I'm willing to follow the FW model only to the point where I see something is unworkable. As was pointed out to me (I forget where) the Thunderhawk is an old model, one of the originals and apparently the creator was not an engineer or the audience was not that demanding so the disappearing nose landing gear issue was not a problem.

Now to make a reasonable model with out departing too radically from the overall appearance I believe I have come up with a satisfactory solution. whether it works or not remains to be seen but I have tackled much bigger problems with the articulated Warhound and succeeded so I may be able to prevail in this effort as well.

Or fail to do so which is also an option.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Right now I'm gluing on the second layer of sheathing to strengthen the hull and provide a good base for the armour.







Not really much to see for all the work involved but as a matter of interest the hull is square and true to the width of a sharpened pencil line in cross section and in length. Speaking of length I may have gone overboard in extending the aft hull I'll have to see after the forward armour is installed. I'm trying to avoid the blocky look of the FW model but right now I feel it may be a decimeter too long.


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## davespil (Apr 28, 2008)

+ rep for you sir. Not for your amazing model though, but for using the term airfoil and stating that GW has yet to design a wing that would provide any. Are you an engineer or have an aircraft background?


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I used the term "Airfoil??????????" I must pay more attention to what I write  I was an aircraft mechanic for 20 years but I am sure I was familiar with the necessity of aerodynamics prior to that. I experimented with wing chord design for R/C models in my early youth and am blown away by what passes for wings on model day aircraft witness F-117 and SR-71 but even they have a rudimentary albeit knife edge concession to a lifting surface; the Thunderhawk and it's ilk have nothing resembling a wing chord and must move through the air by brute force alone.

I am anxious to attempt my next project which is to reproduce in styrene a Marauder (The Imperial Navy's forgotten aircraft and the sexiest of the lot.) IMHO 

The cardboard version shown below is very much the worse for wear:





Does anyone even buy Marauders? And why not??????????


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Whew, after a month of convalescing I'm back and finally feel like building models again. I don't recommend spending three weeks in a hospital. 

Anyhow here is my first days labor on my long neglected project. I've decided to install the armour as I proceed back to the unfinished stern section. This is probably a mistake but I believe the hull is too long so once the armour in the front is done I'll be better able to trust my eye than actual measurements. As per usual I shall be doing this the hard way. No wonder I have ulcers.



I've laid out the coordinating lines on the hull and am fashioning the armour to fit. This is why it would be prohibitive to duplicate and sell copies of this model aside from copyright infringments



Front view more of the same. The hull walls are approaching the proper thickness now.



Side view of the nose armour which I calcuate to be 1.5 MM thick.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Whoops big errors, have to re-do the nose armour.

Strangely I had forgotten I made this enlarged image on my photo editor to plot coordinating intersections. The actual model superimposes rather well on the 3D image with the exception of the most recent work which will be rectified. It appears that 6.0 mm is the proper thickness for the front cargo door and the aligning recesses in the side armour. The image has a two pixel margin of error due to the fuzziness of the enlargement. I can live with that.



Rather poor in my estimation.



This is the goal.



With coordination lines superimposed on model



With pencil lines adjusted on model; by god that is close enough for government work.

E. Blackadder


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Corrected a few mistakes and then added some armour. This ugly beast is starting to grow on me. I can't wait to start on the wings and engines.



The lateral line belt armour and the nose section seam in place. and a start on the second layer of upper hull armour.






-- 
E. Blackadder


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Good to hear you are back up and about. As usual you attention to detail is astounding. As for the Marauder, my personal favorite is the marauder destroyer. However the Thunderbold is probably more popular due to the reduced size and the (relative) ease of building one out of a valk.


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## Damned Fist (Nov 2, 2007)

shaantitus said:


> As usual you attention to detail is astounding.


I whole heartedly agree! Just amazing so far. Can't wait to see the final product:victory:


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

I want one Adder D: have some rep!


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Thanks, BTW I prefer the Destroyer as well.

I was wondering how to do the intricate double layered top of the hull armour without a seam in the finished skin. Part of the beauty of the 3D rendering is that seamless broad expanse of armour with all the cutouts in the edge and compound angles and vent fan cutout, set. Cutting this piece out of 2.5 mm styrene would be very difficult to get perfectly straight cuts and 90° vertical edges.



My solution (if it works) is to make the substrate of 1.5 mm sheeting with 6.3 X 1.5 mm edging strips using all together 5 pieces and then after all is cut out in the substrate tracing the pattern onto the 1.0 mm single piece top armour plate. Then cutting out the square vent fan hatch in the 1.0 mm sheet and the edge cutouts will be easy. Then gluing the top and 1.5 mm substrate together and gluing the whole assembly to the top of the hull should give me the complex piece I want without the seams and knife nicked edges. (I hope)



You can see that this is a very involved section.



The pieces of required substrate to the right and one of the edge pieces tacked onto the underside of top layer.



Another view of the penciled in lines.



And a front view for no particular reason.

E. Blackadder


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

> My solution (if it works) is to make the substrate of 1.5 mm sheeting with 6.3 X 1.5 mm edging strips using all together 5 pieces and then after all is cut out in the substrate tracing the pattern onto the 1.0 mm single piece top armour plate. Then cutting out the square vent fan hatch in the 1.0 mm sheet and the edge cutouts will be easy. Then gluing the top and 1.5 mm substrate together and gluing the whole assembly to the top of the hull should give me the complex piece I want without the seams and knife nicked edges. (I hope)


*Reads this part*

Uuuuh wut???

Needless to say, my brain failed to compute there, but the hawk is looking ace (as in flyer ace.... yeah that was far fetched.)

Waiting to see some more.
Makes me wanna finish my warlord and warhound.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Well it's clear as mud to me and I wrote it. The thing is there are two layers to the armour; a 1.5 mm thick layer I call the substrate i.e. that which lies beneath the top layer and the 1.0 mm thick top sheet that I call the top layer. I want the top layer to be in one piece so I cut the substrate layer out of 5 pieces of 1.5 mm thick sheet styrene to be exactly the size of the top of the hull. Then I cut out the 1.0 mm armour sheet's side notches and the center opening for the fans because the 1.0 mm styrene is easier to cut exactly. Then I glued the five substrate pieces to the top armour sheet to make the requisite thickness of 2.5 mm. Now all that is left is to trim the remaining edges of the top sheet to the exact size of the completed substrate that is glued to the back of the 1.0 mm top sheet.

Mebe I should take a picture? :read:


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

There is a lot of confusion as to what I am trying to achieve regarding the top armour plating.

It's hard to describe the procedure but suffice it to say here is the result. 


The underside of the 1.0 mm top armour with the two 1.5 mm edge pieces installed and the three pieces of the base armour.


The topside of the 1.0 mm top armour showing the end of the edge pieces.


The assembled top and base armour 2.5 mm thick with detail cutouts and edges dressed.


Top view of the armour assembly.


Edge on view of the top armour assembly. 

-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The moment of truth, does it fit?


Seems like a good fit but too much flash.


Less flash more detail.


The front edge needs trimming.

-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Looking sweet, I can not wait to see this finished. Whats your time count on it so far?


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I haven't a clue, I don't count time on an avocational pursuit.

Not much to show for yesterday's work. The secondary layer of armour is attached, the cut outs on the side 90° corners have been dressed out with file and knife and sanded clean with fine sandpaper and file so the seams barely show. This is a downfall of many of the scratch built models I see, that the corners are not clean and crisp. No amount of greenstuff or filler will give that precise intersection and it is relatively easy to achieve with the proper knife and a good clean new 'single cut file'. I use a 'Nicholson' single cut with a coarse side and a fine side that also has one of the edges capable of cutting for a nice crisp interior 90° angle cut. Invest in a file card wire cleaner and clean your file regularly to keep the file teeth from clogging.

In all, the whole of the secondary armour is out of true by less than a quarter of a millimeter which is satisfactory to me and once it is rounded in the finally dressing that discrepancy will blend in I'm sure.


The right side is the master side I do all the planning on. Always use the same side for sketching and fitting pieces and don't shift your on model plan lines from right to left sides if you can help it or you will build in discrepancies that will make your work look lopsided. 


The left side pieces I cut using the right side pieces for a guide making allowances for penciled or scribed lines and dressing the two pieces to insure they precisely match one another. It's easier to do this before thy are glued on than trying to correct them after they are installed.


The front view appears satisfactorily symmetrical.

Now for the front cargo door. 

-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

This was harder than one would suspect, not just cutting out rectangles in 5 mm thick plastic but the angles are actually rhomboid shape in the front elevation and set at compound angles to boot.



Also the 'bonnet' cover plate is installed.



-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

Ah pictures.

NOW we're talking the same language.

Sorry, as soon as you begin speaking / writing in more advanced words than 7th grade stuff.
And in a block of text you will loose me.

But i have ADD and probably a depression, that's what the psykologist says anyway.

And i should stop rambling and comment on that awesome thunderhawk you are building.

That's a very awesome thunderhawk you are building. 

I like how the parts reminds of the land raider, and that you are coming so similar to the original.
It would be awesome if you could compare it side by side with the real thunderhawk when finished.


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

im sure if he just photoshopped this one next to it in a different color scheme you'd think one is the real thing.

really great stuff, ive been watching this thread for a while and you've always been a great inspiration for the work i try with plasticard.

Keep the progress coming on im really keen to see this getting there.

and thanks for the ribbed flooring mini tutorial, will come in handy. but something similar would be to use corrugated plasticard there, would be a bit easier but probably wont look as good.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

There is quite a difference between the FW original, the 3D rendering that I am following and my original posterboard mock up. The superimposed images below show that the 3D (background gray image) is longer, lower, and more arodynamic than the FW (Green image) from the FW Hard cover manual compared to my pitiful original (scrapped)(in white on top) attempt. Since that picture was assembled using the original posterboard core I have modified the cargo compartment again so it will accommodate a Rhino so in all the model I am building is about a quarter again as long as the FW original and slightly longer than the 3D rendering. 



Below is my original core posterboard frame (since modified to better conform) compared side by side to the 3D rendering.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

In spite of my attempt to render this model as close to the 3D image I just can't bring myself to make the cargo door projection as thick as it appears on the 3D picture. I have to trust in the fact that these are prospective drawings and that my effort will bear a reasonable likeness when completed. Not much to show for the week. Heavy work load recently.

The cargo bay opening:


The door in place 6mm thick and it appears still not enough! Egad!


The reinforcement stringers being applied as I type; 4mm X 2mm that should be enough by god:


-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

A minute glimpse into a slow process. No time to work on this this weekend as yet. The 4mm X 2mm strips had to be hand cut as no precut styrene of this size is available the tiny2.5mm squares are likewise cut to order. More fun and games from the madness brought to you by:

The Blackadder


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

Looking better every day dude, keep at it!


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Bah, you switched webhost for pictures after page 1, and I cannot see the page 2+ pics.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

jaysen said:


> Bah, you switched webhost for pictures after page 1, and I cannot see the page 2+ pics.


Jeez, I wish you had told me sooner it's going to be a lot of trouble reposting all the images using the in-house photo host. What server are you using? Did you try clicking in the top right corner? I have no trouble even when logged out. Anyone else having trouble seeing the images and can anyone help him see the images?


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## Kitsunex (Mar 8, 2009)

page 2 works fine for me, i'm using Google Chrome.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I use "Opera" but I am the progenitor of this thread and the host server as well.


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

i can see them all fine and im using google chrome


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Before I get too deep into the aft end of the hull I'd better show where I'm starting from. Since last seen I lopped off about 4 cm and added 0.5 mm sheeting to both sides where the wings mount. Also 0.5 mm to the bottom of the hull to provide a base to glue to. 

I also added a top 2.0 mm sheet to the unfinished superstructure aft end as I am fairly certain that this is the length I shall go with. 


The tail base is truncated and it appears I have the correct angle but I'll have to build it to be certain.

-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The rough cutout for the air brake panels interior detail.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Buildup of the airbrake internal compartment:


-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Looking good so far. Can't wait to see this bad boy finished up!


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The compartment walls complete, I still haven't figured out the brake hinge my original idea of a plastic rod, then steel rod, have given way to a much more durable torque tube assembly which is probably how I shall go. Time enough for that when I get the empennage skinned.



-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Way back when I first started this project and was attempting to save what I could of the foam core I found that the faceted rear of the hull just didn't look right.

Try as I might there was something wrong and fortunately I scrapped the endeavor and started anew. It seems there is a bit of a jog in the hull aft of the airbrakes. Just a centimeter change with a filler angle which makes all the difference. 



The shading of the 3D rendering is so subtle that I never noticed it. but I believe I am on the right track now.

In the image below you can see what I missed installed on the model and on the cutting board the opposite piece.

Now the facets should look reasonable better.



E. Blackadder


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

ah i see what you mean, took a good look at the pic and didnt notice it for a while.

this is definitly coming along nicely, im really looking foward to seeing this done


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## Gareth (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm building a fw thunderhawk at the moment, and your build is looking easier.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Gareth said:


> I'm building a fw thunderhawk at the moment, and your build is looking easier.


One of the problems with the FW models is that the artist's ambition regarding detail exceeds the capability of the casting medium. All that interior work (usually hidden as most builders that I have seen glue everything closed on playable pieces) is a detriment to the manufacture of clean straight mouldings. I'm interested in how you are progressing, do you have a thread?


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Well the good news is that both sides match to within the thickness of a sharp pencil line. The bad news is if this tail section isn't right I'm out a lot of work. I'll be installing the rear 45° slab later as soon as the current glue dries a bit but it looks like I might get away with out having to sand the facets. 

It's amazing that the 3D model was correct and all these angles appear to be necessary.



A word of thanks to my unknown benefactor.




E. Blackadder


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

You know some of us aspire to greatness even though we are not qualified and some of us have greatness thrust upon us although we are not qualified. I would rather seek my level of competence and not transcend it and enjoy the accolades of my peers.

Damn it worked and I am fit to burst with unbounded joy that this portion is done. I have been avoiding this for weeks because I knew the problems entailed but it seems to have come out okay. The tail faceted section works and less than a fraction of a mm off.





E. Blackadder


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

this is really coming along well, you definitly deserve the order of the artificer


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Thunderhawk Chapters, I have no idea. I was thinking beige and jungle green camo with pale blue tinted under belly What chapter would that be?

Or perhaps this scheme on a transport that zipped by my trench the other day:



At any rate DAMN this beastie is long,



26 inches without the exhaust nacelle of the middle engine or 66.04 cm for those of you who have not come to appreciate the utility of the Imperial measuring system.  And I loped off a few CM because it looked too long to me.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Department of one step forward and two back. Discovered an error in my building of the air brake panel recess. Had to tear it out and redo it. Two days and I'm back to where I was two days ago. but the cavity looks a lot better and that's what counts.

The slightly insane Blackadder



Note that the recess is now lined with 0.10 x 0.250 inch strips and the inner wall echoes the outer shape of the superstructure. You don't? well no one else would have either and I just pissed away my time rebuilding that which no one would have noticed anyway.
-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Another peek into the skunk works. Out of this hodge podge of scribbles I hope to extract a semblance of order and replicate the internal plumbing.





I hope I have enough scrap tubing.
-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

You can also stretch sprue into tubing as well or pick up a roll of small wireand glue that down. Overall this is looking badass.

edit: Also go to a music shop and look at guitar string, even ask them if they have any used from when they restrung a guitar.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The plumbing installed, a lot of pipes for such a small area. I suppose fuel lines and tubes for air conditioning and pressurization. Too high for lavatory waste pipes.

The right side:

And the left side:


E. Blackadder


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

Looks incredible man. This is well on it's way to blow all other scratchbuild projects out of the water. Most scratchbuilds just end up being a less detailed version of an original... but this one is shaping up so nicely because of your eye for detail!

Keep up the fantastic work!


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Enough resting on my laurels; there's nothing difficult about this detailing.

Here's a short tutorial on pipe fitting.

The simplest is to just cut rings in the next size larger of the Evergreen telescoping tubing. Slide the ring onto the smaller rod or tube and glue in place with ProWeld thin cement. No need for pictures of this process, But.......

sometimes you want a really thin sleeve on your tubing.

First file or sand the smaller dia. tube to a tapered end:


Then with a thin pointed Xacto blade ream out the larger dia. tube:


to receive the previously tapered rod or tube:


Join the two tubes and cement and set aside to dry on a flat surface:


Next; Really thin bands on the tubing.
-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Looking really good! Love how your pipping turned out,


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Cutting out the hull was the hard part, another step backwards but it had to be done. A 2 mm bulkhead to strengthen the casement and
to provide a secure mount for the hinge assembly. the cutting out the hinge recesses which gives me this result and no significant damage.

 
-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Below is a composite image of the left side hinge showing the range of motion and the assembled components. Now all I have to do is reproduce it for the right side. I'll take pictures of the components seperately for the right side hinge; I didn't for the left because I wasn't sure the damned thing would work. 

-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Gareth (Jan 3, 2008)

Blackadder said:


> One of the problems with the FW models is that the artist's ambition regarding detail exceeds the capability of the casting medium. All that interior work (usually hidden as most builders that I have seen glue everything closed on playable pieces) is a detriment to the manufacture of clean straight mouldings. I'm interested in how you are progressing, do you have a thread?




I do... you can follow it here mate.

http://taleofpainters.blogspot.com


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Gareth said:


> I do... you can follow it here mate.
> 
> http://taleofpainters.blogspot.com


So that's what a t'hawk looks like out of the box; not at all as bad as I expected and there are some interesting pieces I have not been privy to thx.

It appears your airbrake compartment differs from mine.

Oh well,

EB


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## cruor angelus silicis (Jan 13, 2010)

A truly monumental effort you are making there.

I built one of the FW ones this year and have a ton of pictures throughout my project log if you're interested.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91329

Good luck with it!


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Can't wait to see this beast finished.


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## piemaster (Oct 9, 2009)

It's nice to see this bird take shape (albeit slowly (hint hint)). Anyway I doth my hat to your scratch-building skills.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm in no rush to complete this as I savor every moment of the building. The finished product is a anticlimactic letdown in comparison and I'll just be shelving it and starting on something new.

The hinge installed shown in the closed position:


The hinge in the open position:


Sink me, it works!

I'll be finishing skinning the fuselage this weekend.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I wouldn't have thought that such a seemingly simple moving device could have consumed so much time but at last it is done except for the door panels. I managed to sheath the lower hull and around the brake openings on both sides; not too far behind my expectations for the weekend in spite of having to work a bit.

Rather pleased at the symmetry and the very close match of the left side and right side structures: 


The open position, a tad larger than the 3D image but it's a moving part.
 
-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Commissar_H (Oct 3, 2011)

hats off to you mate!!!
your thunderhawk looks bloody incredible,
can't wait so see how it turn out.

ps WOW!!!
PPS OMG WOW!!!


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I just can't wait until I start doing the 'fun' detail. This preliminary stuff is a bit of a drag


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I've been neglecting my public with some personal issues and dressing some of the top hamper that doesn't make for interesting updates. But now there is some progress on the underbelly where I am designing the landing pad wells. 

First, the crude sketches:


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I can not wait! This thing is looking nice.


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## bunkertube (Sep 19, 2011)

I tip my hat to you my friend, I attempted scratch building one of these way back when apocalypse came out. I gave up halfway through.

Good on you though, you've done some great work so far.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Well dig it out and work on it with this thread. If it's halfway along you're ahead of me. 

Amend the hull as needed and dress up the bits; I work slow enough to keep up. 

Ask any questions you want I'll try to answer them.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The wing root mount plate and engine mount tab outboard with one piece temporarily tacked in place to demo the approximate position. I think it's too far forward but that is the beauty of modular construction for once they are assembled I can place them where ever they appear correct.


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## bunkertube (Sep 19, 2011)

I'd love to whip it out but I gave it to a young player who was crazy about apocalypse around a year ago at a local gaming club.
Im sure he's had much more fun out of it then I would have.

I'll keep looking forward to seeing more progress with yours though. good stuff.


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## Disciple_of_Ezekiel (May 23, 2010)

That is some fantastic detail work there Blackadder. Wish I could find the patience to do that myself. Great job so far, keep up the good work.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The landing gear wells are coming along quite nicely. I've had a thought to build each wing separate from the hull and mount them with screws for easy disassembly for transport. This will be quite a large model and damage will occur if in one piece.










http://i.imgur.com/tpPDe.jpg


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm still in awe of this whole blog man... Sick perseverance.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The gear well and landing pads scale = 13 ft X 7 ft per pad or 4 meters X 2 meters if you like. We now begin the excursion into attempting to build the retraction mechanism.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

You can make some pretty nice telescoping with brass rod, bit sturdier then plastic as well.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm hoping plastic will suffice but thanks for the input.

The gear well skin surface covered with the actual model for reference.









http://i.imgur.com/K4MPm.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/QQn5v.jpg

Now in most of the images I have seen the gear is canted outboard. This will pose a problem as the centering strut ( That which keeps the gear aligned with the direction of flight/landing) will have to pivot as the gear raises or lowers. This posed no problem for FW as their gear doesn't move but it appears unique in my experience with aircraft unless the gear folds out from the centerline in the manner of say a Boeing 727. The problem is that the main strut descends vertically down so the centering 'down and locked strut' jams on deployment. A pretty pickle of a problem. 

Also the 'Down and lock' strut has no where to go when the gear is retracted; Ha! What's up with that???? FW really dropped the ball on this; engineeringwise.

IMCO

-- 
E. Blackadder

Quit 'cher bellyach'n Blackadder and stop make'n excuses!


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The resolution of the foot pad is pretty pitiful but this is what I gleaned from it.









http://i.imgur.com/xOrIU.jpg










http://i.imgur.com/W2i3Q.jpg


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The gear temporarily installed in gear wells to check for clearance and operating space. There appears to be sufficient room and the struts remain within the hull instead of poking out through the wing root  whew! 









http://i.imgur.com/lWAZP









(http://i.imgur.com/03w7w
-- 
E. Blackadder


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## KjellThorngaard (Oct 4, 2010)

So, not only are you scratchbuilding a t-hawk, now you are going to build retracting gear? You are mad!! Seeing this is an inspiration and a study in perseverance and patience. +rep for you!


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

That's been the plan all along.

When you get down to it the T'hawk is a pretty staid model, aside from the forward cargo door and the airbrakes there is not to much going on with this brick of a model. Retractable landing gear is a laudable endeavor (IMHO) and I intend to have it. After all my satisfaction is paramount in this endeavor and the design enhances my learning of the craft as well as any who has the endurance to follow this thread. If I am successful we all benefit and if not well it's not because I didn't try.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

ARMORMAN said:


> Found some shots of the landing gear and bays of the FW resin kit:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2596192384

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2596192018

Whoa those are some fantastic shots, much better than anything I have. Very much appreciated; I am in your debt.

Viewing these it very much reinforces what I have suspected all along; FW got the main gear retraction all wrong. 

As the forward (angled) retract cylinder contracts it pivots the main strut forward. the landing pad with what I assume is a leveling cylinder collapses forward with the main strut intersecting with the hull well forward of the gear well opening instead of covering it forming a door as FW intends. 

My main strut perforce will collapse vertically and the angled retract cylinder will be more of a stabilizing/centering device to keep the gear from swiveling. 

The whole hydraulic/mechanical structure from an engineering standpoint is totally inadequate for a vehicle the size of the T'hawk but at least my interpretation will keep the external configuration intact with the gear retracted. 

The forward strut is a different case and I may be able to adapt the FW design by placing the foot pad further aft on the shock strut the short strut/pad may intersect the hull where FW intended when retracted and cover the well.

The Blackadder, I'm not an engineer but I play one on the internet 
-- 
E. Blackadder


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm trying to build the wings as light as possible because I want the upper wing appendages with the lascannons on the tips to be movable and not be a truss for the lower main wing as in the FW model. FW really ought to research into drilling and tapping threads into resin and installing machine screws to hold the heavier pieces together. Crazy glue and even epoxy sometimes just isn't enough.

When I get to mounting the wings on the hull I'll do a tutorial on screwing.

Not what you're thinking,

Blackadder

Back when I was building Lucie I bought some gray ABS plastic box beam tubing manufactured by Plastruct. I don't recommend using this stuff but I've got to get rid of it.so I'm using it to frame the engine mounts and the wing core assembly. It's stronger than styrene but doesn't cement well with styrene glue unless you rough the surface up with sandpaper. Or you could use ABS cement which I believe is mainly acetone.









http://i.imgur.com/3ydfP









http://i.imgur.com/TPmC6

Before you get your 'nads in a knot the just installed beams will be cut very short; they're just left long for now to insure they are parallel. That is a building hint; it's easier to insure frames are parallel and true if they are long rather than short. The discrepancy in trueness is easier to detect with the longer length.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Looking awesome, this thing is coming along nicely.


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## Imp Blackheart (Nov 29, 2010)

amazing work, im sure if the fellows at FW ever got their hands on your home made T-hawk there would be a few envious employees/modelers. let alone those of us that are following your work week to week!

strangely enough i have some background in blue print reading and having a blast following along with your tech talk. its been a real pleasure so far and look forward to your next update


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Glad to have you aboard. As far as blueprints I had a 3 month elective in mechanical drawing when I was in ninth grade I think many years ago. As I recall I didn't do well. my drawings were too smudgy.


We're starting at the ground floor building the wings so there shouldn't be any question later on how it was done. Now if I can just do it without a mistake.









http://i.imgur.com/ZDVp7

I calculated the wing outboard of the engine should extend 17.5 mm excluding the wing tip armament That seems a bit small to me but figures don't lie. We'll just have to see I can always make them bigger.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The wing core plates in 2.0 MM styrene cut out and ready for install.









http://i.imgur.com/3H6Ul









http://i.imgur.com/NAmz


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

Man, this is great work, and you have way more patience than I have. I'm looking forward to seeing it finished and painted. have you thought about a base/stand yet? 

Rev


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## troybuckle (Nov 24, 2010)

Every time you do an update I am more impressed. Keep it up!


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Still awesome as hell.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm afraid you gentlemen and mayhaps ladies perhaps have hitched your wagon to a falling star. I wasted a week on a futile bit of building that did not pan out. Going back to square one I have in a flurry of desperation managed to come up with a better way of doing the wings. This morning I started gluing the first wing together and the foreground piece is the second wing which I hope will be more facile to build now that I think I know what I am doing. 









http://i.imgur.com/T15nG









http://i.imgur.com/FNTlE

The extremely fallible Blackadder


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

Good look with it man!

Don't let a single setback get you down. I'm sure you'll overcome it in no time


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Lost time is not a consideration as I learn greatly from my mistakes and passing that information on to my loyal readers is the _raison d'être_ of this thread.

After much rebuilding and modification I seem to be on the right track regarding the wings. It is not too apparent in the photos but the leading edge of the wing tapers forward giving a nod to the necessity for an airfoil on a lifting surface. Of course the 'wing' (for lack of a better term) has all the aerodynamics of a truncated brick but that's the way the rendering looks. 









http://i.imgur.com/Wg7sO









http://i.imgur.com/L08g7

Now I can proceed on the other wing.


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## Imp Blackheart (Nov 29, 2010)

YAY awesome blackadder! long over due, ive been checking ever day for the next update lol


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

Looking good man. I did wonder about how the heck these things could fly with their current aerodynamics, but the hobby is about willing suspension of disbelief right? :dunno:


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## Imp Blackheart (Nov 29, 2010)

elmir said:


> Looking good man. I did wonder about how the heck these things could fly with their current aerodynamics, but the hobby is about willing suspension of disbelief right? :dunno:



i seem to recall reading somewhere a very good description of how they flew from somewhere.

"they just beat the shit out of the air and thats how they fly"


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

elmir said:


> Looking good man. I did wonder about how the heck these things could fly with their current aerodynamics, but the hobby is about willing suspension of disbelief right? :dunno:


Many jets on the 50's flew by the brute force of their engines witness the Douglas X-3 Stiletto with those vestigial wings:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/amphalon/2696903446/

granted the design was much more areodynamic than the T'hawk but who's to say that a clean smooth surface unencumbered with parasite drag is the only way to go? :read::wink:


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## troybuckle (Nov 24, 2010)

Wings are coming together nicely


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## Prometheus41k (Oct 6, 2011)

having engines that produce 1 million horsepower helps to defy gravity and common sense.


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

I love this build! 

We fall so we can learn to pick ourselves back up again (is that really from batman or was it stolen from somewhere else?. Even if the weekly update is 'it all went wrong so I hit it chucked it against the wall and then stamped on it, look' (and then some pics of a pile of crap with foot marks on it) we would all be happy 

Where are you getting the dimensions from? Just the 3d image?

ps subscribed and +rep


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The 3D rendering provides excellent profile, top and front views which I have enlarged to actual size on my monitor with a photo editing program. I take measurement directly off of the screen with transparent plastic scales. The 3/4 views provide the detail and I extrapolate the foreshortened component sizes based on the relative position to known area dimensions.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The wings as I build them are difficult to assemble building as I did virtually inside out. There is a lot of guestimation as to where to put the internal substrate i.e. the internal panels, then there is the problem of gluing and clamping in place in the confined area (8MM) between the wing upper and lower panels. There has to be an easier way to accomplish this but I can't perceive it.


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

dont they normally build wings in layers?


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Yes but I am building from the outside in; ye gads I thought you Brits wrote the book on English  I'm working between two sheets of styrene approximately 8MM apart to make the internal panels.

Ah Blackadder, poor baby!:headbutt:


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

. I am really chugging along on these wings (At least for me anyway.) I accomplished the wing armour and dressed the trailing edge; once the glue is dry I'll enclose the boxy trailing edge tips and build up the control surfaces. I allowed a centimeter extra on each wing just in case they look too short; not too much lifting surface for a brick-like T'hawk. I got a little sloppy on the armour plating which is why I stopped work for a while but the wings differ by about one millimeter now which should be acceptable.









http://i.imgur.com/XnuREl.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/Lvhbcl.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/2vjMUl.jpg


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)




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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

So do what I do.

I couldn't sleep last night; I was wide awake at 1:50AM so I figured why not do a little work on the T'hawk until i get sleepy. Well here it is 9 hours later and I'm still working on the d--ned thing. H-ll I couldn't be paid for working this hard but the results are gratifying none the less. I just fastened on the wings (temporarily with a couple of screws so the wings have a bit of negative dihedral (Dihedral! We don't need no stinking dihedral! (especially negative)). I'm lucky today is Saturday or I'd be in a world of hurt sleepwise.

-


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## Rhino 88 (Jan 1, 2012)

Man when this is finished you should may consider making one more to sell hehe.... NICE WORK...! best ive ever seen


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## LTP (Apr 15, 2009)

Absolutely BEautiful work there dude  I have been a big fan of your skills for ages and I love seeing what you come up with. Cant wait to see this finished  

Have some rep! 

LTP


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Ya know there are a lot of talented people who are adept at cashing in on their skills; unfortunately I am not one of them. It would kill me to have to make even a second one of these. This build is strictly for my enjoyment but if I had to make another one it would be tedious. plus I would hae to charge much more than FW or be working for far less than minimum wage. Then there is the copyright infringement factor to consider. Someone put a lot of skill into designing the original; it wouldn't be fair to cash in on their creative talent. 

Oh well now for the engines.

As familiar as I am with current jet engines I'm stymied by the drum-like affairs surrounding the compressor housing and exhaust turbines on these engines. There are two above and two below and they seem to be vented with louvers fore and aft. My guess is they augment the intake air in the rarefied partial vacuum of orbital space but why they are needed on the rear as well is a mystery. After burner maybe?

Anywho here are the bits components of the basic engine rough cut and ready for final shaping and assembly.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Taking the rough cut crescent pieces, I tacked them together with a couple of dots of ambroid and sanded them to the final shape. Then separating them more or less in the middle I reversed the two pieces to see how well they conform to their mirror inages. Then I compared the ends to the middle. Happily they matched up pretty good.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The whatever it is cowling for the engine basic construction. The first two I made just for practice and are 23 mm long and the base flairs slightly. They will be abbreviated and used on the belly engine. The next set will be for the wing engines now that I have the specs down and will be 22 mm in length. 




























Only eight more to do, I do so hate the repetition!


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Have a look at the prototype. This will be used on the middle engine below the hull and was practice to get the spacing down right.

I bought a sleeve of half round dowels when I was building Lucie and haven't had a use for them until now.

Never throw anything away is my credo,


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Well, back on track The drums (sic) are formed and slightly detailed there is still the intake vanes and the half round stringers on the sides but the overall effect is good.









http://i.imgur.com/nUhDa.jpg
The 11 halves matched in size









http://i.imgur.com/bk44d.jpg
dummyed up with cowls and exhausts


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## Rhino 88 (Jan 1, 2012)

mind blowing.....when i can rep you i will......soo amazing...i was soooo tempting in buying one from forge last night however....i want to see what yours will look like.
(you should make a step by step guild, list materials in a manual...id buy one !)

keep up the good work..

R


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Rhino 88 said:


> mind blowing.....when i can rep you i will......soo amazing...i was soooo tempting in buying one from forge last night however....i want to see what yours will look like.
> (you should make a step by step guild, list materials in a manual...id buy one !)
> 
> keep up the good work..
> ...


I thought this was a step by step guide? I will gladly answer any question not covered.

Bear in mind that my Thunderhawk is based the 3D model presented on the first page not the FW original and I modified the cargo bay and door opening to allow a full sized Rhino to pass through. I don't want to take anything from the FW concept but it may very well be a compromise of weight and detail compared to a one shot effort such as mine.


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## Rhino 88 (Jan 1, 2012)

Blackadder said:


> I thought this was a step by step guide? I will gladly answer any question not covered.
> 
> Bear in mind that my Thunderhawk is based the 3D model presented on the first page not the FW original and I modified the cargo bay and door opening to allow a full sized Rhino to pass through. I don't want to take anything from the FW concept but it may very well be a compromise of weight and detail compared to a one shot effort such as mine.



To be honest BA i looked at the forge cargo door and did think what a bummer shame you couldn't put a rhino in there..! lol

Have you thought about collecting up all your pics and making a youtube video..someone may scout you for your design !!

R


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

this is SUCH an amazing plog!! So tempted to make a scratch built titan of my own (thunderhawk is WAY out of my league)


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I have to say the FW engine plumbing looks more authentic. The 3D model has symmetrical plumbing fore and aft and top and bottom; it looks like he took a shortcut and just mirrored the detail. Not a big deal but not how a real engine looks plus there is no fuel control, accessory gearbox, generators or CSD's (Constant speed drives for the generators) and there is no bleed air for the pressurization and air conditioning. 

Close as I am to the plumbing I'm going to have to find the FW engines and particularly the bottom view. 

I have an excellent top view see the 4th image below.









http://i.imgur.com/2psDp.jpg[









http://i.imgur.com/pPOwg.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/e3JSj.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/MUaA8.jpg


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I've decided to forget about the PVC and make the compressor section out of 0.40 mm sheet styrene I'll do this one to completion and see how it goes. So far every thing is lining up nicely.









http://i.imgur.com/lmh8a.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/V5conl.jpg


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

The #3 engine basic framework is complete and as usual it has set a standard that I will be hard pressed to equal. Everything came together so perfect than I could believe with less than a quarter mm error between the top and bottom halves and that will be covered by the fairing inboard of the engine so it won't be seen anyway 

Now all that needs be do is to attempt to reasonably duplicate this on the other side. 









http://i.imgur.com/60V78.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/OX5CP.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/Ic8rG.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/4KqJS.jpg


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Okay, the basic three engines are done now that all needs be done is the final sanding of the mating surfaces where they intersect the wing root and fair them into the wing. An added bonus is that the engines increase the overall wingspan by about 2.5 cm which alleviates my concern that the wings look too short. 

Note that the center engine is longer than the wing engines; this is also true on the 3D drawings to make the exhaust housing come out. Can't be helped and I don't think it will detract from the overall look as the bottom of the hull is rarely seen anyway. I'm not sure how it looks on the FW model but the extra length of this model that gives it that more airworthy appearance necessitates strefching the engine. Makes it hell for engine changes though as two variations of engines must be stocked instead of one.

Seriously Blackadder, You're concerned with logistics now; Get a life!









http://i.imgur.com/UTIk8.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/esNfJ.jpg


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

This is one of the most ambitious, and well executed, scratch build projects I've ever seen. Well done.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

You gentle reader are about to reap the benefit of my stupidity. I went to great lengths to make the core housing of the engine as cylindrical as possible wasting hours in this fabrication. Recent images of the FW engine that have come into my possession have demonstrated to me that this effort while a worthwhile learning experience has been rendered superfluous. It seems there is another curved cowl sitting astride the core housing so I need to make another semi-cylinder of a lesser diameter and affix it to the core cylinder. What is left visible of the core cylinder could have been substituted with a nearly flat piece of stripping a centimeter wide. 









http://i.imgur.com/8bkgN.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/NkTcm.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/7UA5e.jpg 

Frustrating! HA! 

Take that smarty pants Blackadder........


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm trying another method to affix the cowl to the engine core. This reminds me of my daughter's paper doll cutouts but we'll see how it works. meanwhile I'm going to get that heat gun.









http://i.imgur.com/tAhle.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/5sQjZ.jpg


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I am amazed at this and more rep (if I can) coming your way!


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Well here it's the weekend again and everyone with a life is out enjoying it. Meanwhile I went ahead and detailed up an engine to see what it would look like. There are a few changes from either of the two versions I'm working from and I really wanted to use some of the hex rod I have lying about. so I made it into the fuel injector defuser. It doesn't look too bad and certainly different from the FW tube defuser in the same area. Of course the needs to be a lot more tiny bits to make it look like a real engine but nowheres near as complex as the SR71 engine pictured below................. No that way madness lies.









http://i.imgur.com/uh8EM.jpg
Outrageously complicated fuel control.









http://i.imgur.com/PQnQs.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/2ymYd.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/BfJ8B.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/EtxJx.jpg
Damn it's hard to believe that engine doesn't turn into a puddle of slag at that temperature!


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Resting on my laurels for far too long but I have not too much to show. I've been working on the engine detail and before I mount them I'd like to try to give them a bit of fire i.e. high intensity LED's. This is my first effort so be kind I only just slapped this together a few minutes ago.









http://i.imgur.com/CWAV6.jpg 










http://i.imgur.com/LISXZ.jpg


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Okay, a while back someone asked me what Chapter colours I was going to paint this beauty (possibly not on this forum)? Well I hadn't considered that far down the line but I did receive some suggestions (Again maybe not from this forum) and I have decided barring a humongous meteorite strike or some other world shattering event I shall be going with this scheme. It just appeals to me adding just the right amount of racial senile decay and a patine of war weary resignation to the inevitable and ultimate end.

Whew, that is a depressing scenario if I do say so myself.

On a more upbeat note; the engines are just about done and I'll be posting an update soon.

With credit to the "Lord Inquisitioner" for the following images.









http://i.imgur.com/Hk1Qr.jpg
Now thats vomit green!









http://i.imgur.com/lH9Pg.jpg 
I really like this 3D rendering









http://i.imgur.com/GAQYz.jpg 
I just hope my exhausts look this good









http://i.imgur.com/dR9oP.jpg 
And my landing gear function this well.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Amazing looking, your detail work in inspiring and something for people to try and work up too.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Not much going on to this date I did some work on the lower portion of the engines and stated detailing the #3 engine upper half.

The biggest change is the following image which was the first taken with my new Rebel T3i Canon DSLR which Egad! is fully manual, I'm actually going to have to learn how to take pictures again. My old Kodak 290 (in the background) was having trouble extending the auto zoom lens (Getting it up as it were. ) so I guess it was time to retire it but this new camera will take some getting use to. I may have to read the manual though I did manage the image below right out of the box.









http://i.imgur.com/rja78.jpg


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## Skari (Dec 20, 2011)

keep it goin! cant wait to see this completed.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Damn then I'll just have to start another project..........When will it end,

Let's not go there


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Blackadder. Your spectacular work continues to expand the boundries of the spectacular. I may have to find a better word to use. You have set the bar so high the rest of have give up trying to reach it and just walk underneath. As for those unexplained vents on the engines of the thunderhawk, I think there are more pressing paradoxes in the 40k universe. Your work continues to impress. Rep


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Another bunch of blurry images but I figured out what I am doing wrong. I need to set the camera to Macro I just gotta find how to do that. Of course I could just read the damned manual but wheres the fun in that? 

Yeah Blackadder you'll have the damned thing for 20 years and never find half of what it's capable of.

Gee I'd didn't know it could do that.

Waddaya expect from someone whose VCR flashes 12:00 all the time.

The black tape keeps peeling off.









http://i.imgur.com/OnLKy.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/0jMp4.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/W1Cj0.jpg

VCR?


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## EvilGrin (Jan 30, 2009)

Amazing work!!

And just turn the camera dial to the green square that's full auto mode. the little pic of a flower is macro mode , no more excuses for blurry pics.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Thanks, yeah I figutred that a camera this sophisticated should also have a feature that caters to bumbling tyros as well. 

See even when I have a manual I'm too stupid to read it but hey I figured out how to set the time and date which is better than I did with my old camera which still displays the date it was made.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Looking awesome man, really coming along.


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## Rhino 88 (Jan 1, 2012)

..."I have a cunning idea.."


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Wow, ten days since I posted on this thread! Sorry I've been busy. For those of you that have been following my Warlord thread I have not forgotten this project but I did need to update the Warlord thread as well. 

I ran into a snag on the engines which stymied me until I found a solution and strangely enough it was in my medicine cabinet namely the exhaust cones. While innovative the thread cones never satisfied me as a viable material. This morning while brushing my teeth infrequent as tha may be I noticed that my Shoprite mouthwash had the precise requirements for a plastic exhaust cone. So now I have a lifetime supply of cheap mouthwash (if I forgo opportunities for osculation) and three ready made exhaust cones as well 

Of course you realize that the above tale is a complete prevarication; I've had this idea in my pocket for six months or more. 









http://i.imgur.com/JRU0b.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/dG9L6.jpg

Confession is good for the soul.


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

i love it when that happens, like with my valkrie project i couldnt find anything to use as the vtol exhausts on the wings, till i noticed the caps from the superglue i used were perfect.

this project is really coming along, im happy i have subscribed to this thread


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I overcame my malaise this weekend and took up the T'hawk again. 

I extended the wing roots 13mm each to accommodate the larger diameter engines, cured the negative dihedral, cut out the notch to receive the lights and glued the wing engines in place. 

In all not a bad amount of work.

http://i.imgur.com/30Wgy.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/hkgm3.jpg 









http://i.imgur.com/O94R1.jpg


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## Lethiathan (Nov 11, 2011)

When this is finished I will find it and it will be mine. Epic doesn't cut it.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

You'll never find me, the G'ment has issued me a new identity!

Man I am hot today, I popped this together with one hand and a Martini in the other. It's a good thing I don't have a third hand, I'm feelin' that good.

http://i.imgur.com/806Dc.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/d0W8a.jpg


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## Turnip86 (Oct 7, 2011)

Warp factor 5 Mr Sulu!

Looks awesome and it's really coming together in spite of your detour to work on the warlord  Keep up the great work.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Whoa, Poland. Could you supply a link to a Polish 40k forum?


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## Disciple_of_Ezekiel (May 23, 2010)

Looking fantastic Blackadder! The detail your putting into this thing is beautiful!

Keep it up!

Regards,
DoE


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## None (May 4, 2011)

Blackadder, not really sure, but I think this is the most popular polish site http://www.wh40k.pl/

And I must say, your work is really awesome, waiting for more updates


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## Skari (Dec 20, 2011)

looking great. Cant wait to see this painted!


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

I have some questions about my TH that I thought you might be able to answer 

1st off I was thinking of making a frame of 1cmx1cm square dowel rod to make a frame as you have advised that using foam board isn't what you'd do if you had started again. 

I've worked it out that the main chassis is going to be 21.7 x 20.5 x 9 inches how does that measure up to yours?

Lastly the details of the armour plates may cause me issues I was thinking I could just score the A4 that I'm fitting over the wooden frame. but I'm not sure if that will be enough.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Whew, another apocryphal Blackadder project resurrected! I shall follow this diligently, and no doubt learn from your triumphs and professed failures until such time as I gaze upon the glorious completed work.


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Hellados said:


> I have some questions about my TH that I thought you might be able to answer


It will be my pleasure



> 1st off I was thinking of making a frame of 1cmx1cm square dowel rod to make a frame as you have advised that using foam board isn't what you'd do if you had started again.


The reasons I didn't like using foam board and why I wouldn't recommend using wood square stock are the same. The incompatibility of the material with the styrene. Not only is it difficult to adhere the styrene to the wood/foam board but there may be a different coefficient of expansion between the wood and the styrene. I'm sure you would hate to have seams open up after your model is completed due to temperature, humidity or age of the model. 



> I've worked it out that the main chassis is going to be 21.7 x 20.5 x 9 inches how does that measure up to yours?


My version (which I rationalize as a stretch version) is 26 inches long 7 inches longer than the stunted looking FW version and has a wingspan of 25 inches. The forward hold is 4.75 X 5.25 inches to accommodate an Rhino in the cargo bay.



> Lastly the details of the armour plates may cause me issues I was thinking I could just score the A4 that I'm fitting over the wooden frame. but I'm not sure if that will be enough.


My model which will mimic the 3D version as closely as I can will have layers upon layers of 1,0 to 1,5 mm styrene which add to the detail and make the model more interesting looking IMO as opposed to just scoring the lines but that is a matter of taste. You still have not explained A4?


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

Blackadder said:


> It will be my pleasure


 Thanks a lot mate, you are the guru of this stuff 




Blackadder said:


> The reasons I didn't like using foam board and why I wouldn't recommend using wood square stock are the same. The incompatibility of the material with the styrene. Not only is it difficult to adhere the styrene to the wood/foam board but there may be a different coefficient of expansion between the wood and the styrene. I'm sure you would hate to have seams open up after your model is completed due to temperature, humidity or age of the model.


I'll have to try and get some plastic rods to do a similar thing with, I reckon that building it without a frame would give it some severe structural issues. It would twist and I have ever intention of making the wings, tail and some of the other bits detachable 




Blackadder said:


> My version (which I rationalize as a stretch version) is 26 inches long 7 inches longer than the stunted looking FW version and has a wingspan of 25 inches. The forward hold is 4.75 X 5.25 inches to accommodate an Rhino in the cargo bay.


Wow that's big, but mine appears to be more squat, I'm happy with the length of mine but I've made it sit lower and wider then the FW one. Also larger wings, maybe a bit more capable of flying. Have you seen a plane called Skylon? 




Blackadder said:


> My model which will mimic the 3D version as closely as I can will have layers upon layers of 1,0 to 1,5 mm styrene which add to the detail and make the model more interesting looking IMO as opposed to just scoring the lines but that is a matter of taste.


Yeah I do prefer that idea as it would be proper, however it would double the build cost, I think the saying there is in for a penny in for a pound 




Blackadder said:


> You still have not explained A4?


Sorry I thought that was a universal measurement, in the UK we have different sizes of paper, A1, A2, A3, A4, A5m and more (http://www.papersizes.org/a-paper-sizes.htm), A4 is 11inches by 7.6 


eBay here I come! (supplies)


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

Your pardon, I wasn't aware you were building this of paper; then wood framing is the way to go of course. The problem with paper and card stock is the durability of the edges and corners but aside from that, it is a good medium of expression.

I never bothered much about paper other than to load my printer/copier so the world has passed me by with this ISO system. I grew up with 8.5 X 11 inches as the standard paper size and 8.5 X 14 for legal sheets. This A-0 etc------------ seems excessive much the same as the dozen or so metric bolt head sizes where half as many would suffice.


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

No its plasticard/styrene that's the same size as paper 

so A4 styrene  And yeah I didnt know it went that big or small I was only sure of A3, 4 and 5.

This is going to be a plastic monster but I can't work out how to make a frame for it


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## Blackadder (Jun 28, 2009)

I don't usually get involved in advising how to start a model not being that experienced myself but were I ever to start another T'hawk I would make frame of 3/8 inch 9.5 MM square stock styrene from either Plaststruct or Evergreen

There is a UK based distributor of these products............

http://www.modellersmate.co.uk/evergreen.htm and the prices seem reasonable.


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