# Let's come up with some new doctrines/traits



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Cause I'm bored really, and Elchimpster gave me an idea for a good one. Basically, I want to hear some cool idea's for Guard Doctrines or Space Marine Traits. (Advantages or Disadvantages) Hell, I don't know jack about them, but you can suggest Tyranid biomorphs if you really wanna.

My first one is called Heart of Black, and it's a guard doctrine. As long as your commander is alive, you are allowed to fire into close combat. If you're firing with a BS 3 troop, you have a 50% chance of hitting your own men. BS 4 is 25%. BS 2, 75%. Once your commander is dead, it is imagined his more compassionate aide takes over and you can't use this special rule anymore. Snipers always have a 25% chance of hitting, no matter what their BS is.


----------



## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

http://www.heresy-online.net/viewtopic.php?t=1551&highlight=guard+doctrines


----------



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

is that your contribution, or are you telling me I'm reposting?

Cause I find that the two threads are fundamentally different. Mine is a chance for people to post not only doctrines, but traits and biomorphs, wheras that is just a repost of some doctrines from the Boot Camp forums, and a discussion of them.


----------



## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

I think he was telling you to look there, even though the threads are very different.

I would like to help on this, but i nothing --nothing-- play-wise about guard.


----------



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Hey, traits and biomorphs are acceptable too. I just want to see how creative (and twisted in the case of mine) we can all be.


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Considering they don't still print the Eye of Terror codex and it's not particularly clear how long the Lost and the Damned will be a valid build, it wouldn't be terrible to have something like this available to Guard Commanders:

Traitors: The regiment serves the ruinous powers of Chaos! Mutants become an Elites choice (as the focus is on the traitor Guard regiment, not any followers they may have picked up), while Commissars and Priests cannot be included in the army. A Traitor army cannot include allies taken from either Inquisitorial codex, nor may they be used as allies for an Inquisitorial army. Instead, Troops choices and summoned daemons from Codex: Chaos Space Marines can be selected as allies, filling an Elite Slot in the case of the Chaos Space Marines, or a Troops slot in the case of summoned daemons (which is a change from the new CSM 'dex, but allied units really should take up a slot SOMEWHERE.) May not be selected with Grenadiers, Independent Commissars, or Xeno-Fighters.


Tank Aces: The crew of the formation's armoured vehicles are either veterans, uncannily lucky, or trained to a higher standard. Any armoured vehicle may choose a Tank Ace to command it for +20 points, or +30 for a model with one or more AV14 facings. Once per game, a Tank Ace can force the opponent to re-roll the result of a penetrating hit against his vehicle. This cannot be selected with Drop Troops, Jungle Fighters, or Warrior Weapons. 

Big an' Mean: The regiment comes from a world where Ogryns have naturally evolved or are bred. The regiment is either entirely composed of Ogryns or contains a disproportionate number of them as a result. Ogryns become a Troops choice for an army with this doctrine. Cannot be combined with Jungle Fighters, Carapace Armour, Light Infantry, Drop Troops, or Chem-Inhalers.



Space Marine Traits...
I imagine Space Marine traits are going to go the way of the dinosaur in the not too distant future, but what the heck.

Knowledge is Power: The Chapter includes a higher number of Librarians than normal. To represent the scrying and bookish nature of Astartes Librarians and the strength of them in numbers, if the army includes one Librarian, it adds +1 to its Strategy Rating. If it includes two Librarians or more, it adds +1 to its strategy rating (not cumulative with the aforementioned bonus) and allows one dice to be re-rolled per turn of any sort. Remember that a re-roll cannot be re-rolled! 

Unrelenting: A Chapter with this Trait relishes close combat over ranged fighting, and are particularly relentless in its pursuit. They ignore negative modifiers for being outnumbered in close combat, and are Stubborn within 12'' of an enemy model. 

Descent into Madness: One of the Astartes of the Chapter has become corrupt, and his words have reached the ears of many of his brethren. Tactical and Assault Squads may purchase an Icon of Chaos (see Codex: Chaos Space Marines (the new one)), but if they do so, they become an Elites choice. An army which has chosen this Trait cannot include allies, and may not select We Stand Alone as a drawback, as the effect is already there. 

Love Thy Neighbor: The Astartes are quite at home fighting alongside other forces of the Imperium, or deviate enough from the Codex to include human auxiliaries (which is not unheard of-- the Ultramarines have a standing army that defends Ultramar, for example.) Any friendly Imperial unit (whether in your army or not) may use a Tactical, Assault, or Devastator Squad's leadership within 6'' if it is better than their own.


----------



## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

Guard Doctrines

Do unto others: These particularly stubborn, violent and reckless troopers are more likely to fling themselves head on into the fray despite being outnumbered or out classed. Any infantry squad with warrior weapons may take the Counter-attack skill at +2 points per model. may not be combined with iron discipline or close order drill.

Theres more where that came from: This regiment defends a forge world where there is an over abundance of Lasgun and laspistol powerpacks. these troopers have no need to conserve power and are unlikely to stop shooting even when theres nothing left alive. any model armed with a lasgun, laspistol, or hellgun may fire an an additional shot. If they shoot extra this turn, them may not shoot the next turn in order to change thier powerpacks.

____________________

and now for the marines.

force the Line: These Space marines are so adept in fighting together as a surging mass of divine fury, that they can move the enemy models around with sheer mass and muscle. At the end of an assault in which the Space marines won but did not chase off the enemy advance, the owning player roll a scatter dice, a hit represents a tactical choice of the squad, and the owning player may specify the direction, and the entire combat must consolidate d6 inches in that direction, (except off a table edge or impassable terrain, as the troops want to stay in the fight, reduce the dice accordingly) this affects the following units, space marines in power armor, terminator, assault squads, and dreadnoughts.


----------



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

The Son of Horus said:


> Big an' Mean: The regiment comes from a world where Ogryns have naturally evolved or are bred. The regiment is either entirely composed of Ogryns or contains a disproportionate number of them as a result. Ogryns become a Troops choice for an army with this doctrine. Cannot be combined with Jungle Fighters, Carapace Armour, Light Infantry, Drop Troops, or Chem-Inhalers.


Oh man, that would be such a fun army to play!



Engelus said:


> Theres more where that came from: This regiment defends a forge world where there is an over abundance of Lasgun and laspistol powerpacks. these troopers have no need to conserve power and are unlikely to stop shooting even when theres nothing left alive. any model armed with a lasgun, laspistol, or hellgun may fire an an additional shot. If they shoot extra this turn, them may not shoot the next turn in order to change thier powerpacks.


Cool, like the eldar bladestorm. (I've been on the receiving end of that more times than I'd like.)


----------



## stompzilla (Mar 8, 2007)

First thing they'll need if i'm to continue playing marines after they get "Jervised" is a trait that allows a player to ignore the combat squads rule.


----------



## Antioch (Dec 27, 2006)

Heh. The OP doctrine is one I often find myself wanting more than anything. However, it would really unbalance assault armies. Think about it.


----------



## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

oh yeha, check the link. dont see how these threads are that different, but still worth a look.


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

In your one you simply listed the ones you had found where as I think Cadian is asking for us to create some so we can all discuss them and ceate better ones. Yours is for the finished product, Cadian is after the process.


----------



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Yeah, that's it. I just thought it would be a fun thing to do.


----------



## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

id like to see a doctrine involving overcharged powerpacks for lasguns.


----------



## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

Overcharged Power packs : It is a widely known fact that Lasgun power packs can be recharged by many means, the worst of which is placing it in a fire, it is highly unrecommended, but some regiments don't listen. In the shooting phase a Lasgun with an overcharged power packs count as rending, but will also be subject overheating similar to the "Gets hot" rule and be forced to make an armor save rule on a roll of 6. Overcharged power packs may be taken at a cost of 15 points per unit. Conscripts may not be given overcharged power packs. this may not be taken with sharpshooters, warrior weapons, Iron Discipline or Light Infantry.


----------



## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

interesting take on things-

id have gone for - overcharged power packs

some illustrious regiments of the guard are well known for their highly elite stormtrooper squads. however, not all of the regiment can become a stormtrooper and carry the coverted hellgun. in an attempt tp imitate their brother in arms' weapons, these soldiers overcharge their lasgun power cells to give them more stopping power.

this doctrine may only be taken if a squad already has carapace armour, and may be given to any guard infantry unit (not conscripts) for either 5 or 10 points per squad. if taken, the lasgun becomes ap5

havent decided on a good cost yet.


----------



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Engelus, when I first read it, that struck me as something rather suicidal, and I was thinking conscripts before I got to the end of the paragraph. (Where, of course, they're banned.)

Maybe a tweaked version that only allows conscripts to take them, something like this:

This regiment is raised from a system where there are more people than the Governor knows what to do with! Thus, the regmient has adopted a "life is cheap" attitude, and, in their quest to go out in a blaze of glory before their inevitable death in the mass charges favored by this unit, most of the lowlier troopers overcharge their lasgun powerpacks to allow them to kill more enemies before they themselves are killed. This doctrine may be given to any conscript unit at the cost of 15 points. The lasguns count as rending, but will overheat if a six is rolled, forcing an armor save.


----------



## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

Thanks for your opinion, I agree in some ways, but I disagree that it should be available for conscripts. having it on conscripts may be too good, because it takes a really crappy unit and makes them really good. it is a much larger loss to have a infantryman die because of it, the concept is the juxtaposition of failure and success, and having those mixed situations is fascinating to me. if it is just a lowly conscript dying, It lessens the degree of failure and loss.

also, having good weapons on conscripts seems to cost much more anyway, so if they were on conscripts, it should probably cost about 20 points.


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Conscripts are NOT a crappy unit. They may be lacking in training, but they more than make up for that in weight of numbers. If you couple either a command squad hanging out behind them or an Independent Commissar leading them, you've got a pretty unshakable bunch of guys that you can throw away on pretty much anything. After all, it's awfully hard for a dreadnought to cut through 50 guys, and that more than takes care of that threat for the rest of the game. Yes, you'll lose two or three a turn, but you outnumber the dreadnought so you're just taking a check on the Commissar's rather considerable leadership. 

Conscripts are also quite possibly the ultimate answer to broods of gaunts. Load 'em up with flamers, and while gaunts will slash their way through the unit... you've got 50 of 'em in the unit, so you've got plenty of meat to put through the grinder. Against tyranids, it's a numbers game, and if you take away their numerical superiority, you're gaining the upper hand against them, even if gaunts are better than conscripts-- Tyranids have to rely on breaking through as quickly as possible, and if they can't, then they're screwed.


----------



## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

(pardon me for stealing your previous post) but I had this idea playing at todays weekly game at work.

This regiment is raised from a system where there are more people than the Governor knows what to do with! Thus, the regmient has adopted a "life is cheap" attitude, most of the lowlier troopers are simply sent into battle as they arrive at the barracks. Conscripts in this army are Numberless at a cost of 3 points per model.


----------



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Continuing with the uber conscripts theme, hows this?

Alternate Regimental Organization:

This regiment is raised from a system where there are more people than the Governor knows what to do with! Conscripts may be taken w/o first taking a regular infantry squad. Each conscript platoon is lead by a commissar, which does not count towards the 0-5 limit you may take otherwise.

This doctrine may be combined with Engelus's doctrine, but the cost for numberless is five points. They may also take my rending doctrine, but it costs 20 points per unit instead of fifteen.


----------



## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

i love those SM traits sons of horus mentioned, but i would change one:

Knowledge is Power: The Chapter includes a higher number of Librarians than normal. To represent the scrying and bookish nature of Astartes Librarians and the strength of them in numbers, if the army includes one Librarian, it adds +1 to its Strategy Rating. If it includes two Librarians or more, it adds +1 to its strategy rating (not cumulative with the aforementioned bonus) and allows one dice to be re-rolled per turn of any sort. Remember that a re-roll cannot be re-rolled! 

I would say, chapter can include the cheaper librarians as elites, but they cannot have terminator armor and command squads/transports. Only chapters with swift as the wind may be mounted on bikes. To make up for the excessive amount of librarians, the chapter can only include 0-1 lesser chaplains and no chaplain master. Chaplains are known to distrust witchcraft. (the last one is a maybe)


----------



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

So then, make it no chaplain masters. Cause I doubt they would allow such a psychic buildup.


----------



## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

This is mildly off topic, but I think a special piece of wargear should also be able to be purchased with "Knowlege is power" in place of a holy relic. 

Astronomicon Manifest Scroll: This scroll contains upon it a litany of purification and concentration that allows the psyker to channel the mind of the Emperor and open their mind without worry of being mentally attacked. When Revealed and read It allows any space marine psyker within 24 inches of the model reading it to use a major psyker power without a perils of the warp check. The Astronomicon Manifest Scroll costs 50 points and is useable once per game and is limited to one per army


----------



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Hey, nice. So, you're coming with a Librarium command squad as opposed to a chappie command squad? I'd be interested to hear more, if you're up to it.

Also, here's another doctrine to throw out there:

Weathered Warriors (Yes, that's a pun people)

This regiment was raised on a planet that has adverse weather conditions, and usually is only deployed on like planets. Choose one of the following and apply the benefits to your army. The choice must be evident in the paint scheme of your army, conversions and the like:

Temperate: This army is excellent in fighting in the rolling hills and grasslands of agriworlds, and any non-vehicle can choose to "go to ground" and gain a +6 cover save in open space, if they are on a temperate board. Any unit that does this may not move next turn.

Iceworld: This army gains a +6 cover save on any cold weather boards. Vehicles count as hull down.

Desert Planet: This army is culled from a desert planet, and is adept at using the adverse effects of a desert to their advantage. Any unit (including vehicles) may infiltrate on a desert board for +10 points

Air Planet: While not a weather effect per se, this unit is raised on a gaseous planet that barely has enough atmosphere to support life. It's warriors are adept paratroopers, and often choose to deep strike to their targets instead of deploy normally. Any unit (including vehicles) may deep strike for +10 points on any board type.

Chaos Planet: This unit has turned to chaos, and has lived in the eye of terror for quite some time, where the whims of the chaos gods have the faces of the planets constantly changing. They are not affected by difficult terrain, and can cross water with no problem.


----------



## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

air planet - its the same as drop troops. except it costs 10 pts more.

chaos planet is cool. there were some rules in WD before it became shit about playing games om daemon worlds.


----------



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

> air planet - its the same as drop troops. except it costs 10 pts more.


No, it's not. Drop troops only allows guard infantry and sentinels to DS, Air Planet allows the entire army to DS, hence the points cost.


> chaos planet is cool. there were some rules in WD before it became shit about playing games om daemon worlds.


Thanks.


----------



## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Marine trait: Holier than Thou

So dedicated to the Emperor's Holy Word are these fanatics that any assault squad or any unit from the 'elites' section may upgrade their veteran sergeant to a chaplain at the cost of ... (I dunno, 100pts?) without using an extra HQ slot. These chaplains are not idependent characters, they are otherwise lke veteran sergeants, but may take chaplain-permitted weapons and wargear. Marines taking "Holier than Thou" may not take Librarians or be allied with any Psykers (may not be combined with "have faith in suspicion" disadvantage).


edit - hey wow, didn't see page 2! Yeah I completely agree about theincrease Librarians/decrease chaplains thing, but I was doing it the other way round... spooky (Damned Psykers, all of you! The Righteous Wrath of the Divine Emperor will burn you all!)

:cyclops:


----------



## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

> Marine trait: Holier than Thou
> 
> So dedicated to the Emperor's Holy Word are these fanatics that any assault squad or any unit from the 'elites' section may upgrade their veteran sergeant to a chaplain at the cost of ... (I dunno, 100pts?) without using an extra HQ slot. These chaplains are not idependent characters, they are otherwise lke veteran sergeants, but may take chaplain-permitted weapons and wargear. Marines taking "Holier than Thou" may not take Librarians or be allied with any Psykers (may not be combined with "have faith in suspicion" disadvantage).
> 
> ...


me, being a templars player, understands this idea very well


----------



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

very cool. but do they get chappie special rules, or are they basically vet sergeants with rosarius's and crozius's?


----------



## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

Oh no, for a hundred pts extra (haven't sat down with a dex to work this out, but figure its about that) they get chappie special rules. They just can't run off and join other units or anything, they 'are' the sergeant for that squad; but they're still chaplains, functioning as chaplains in all other respects.

Greyskullscrusade, this is where I reveal my ignorance, can Templars not have librarians then?

:cyclops:


----------



## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

I cant even ALLY with an army that has a psyker, save for grey knights


----------



## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

Greyskullscrusade said:


> I cant even ALLY with an army that has a psyker, save for grey knights


i thought grey knights were banned too.


----------



## Greyskullscrusade (Jan 24, 2007)

No, im 99% sure that they can. I would get the dam codex and check, but its all the way in the truck, and im all the way in my room.....


----------



## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

That's interesting - my DIY chapter is called the Jade Templars, and they have no Librarians (killed them when the Thousand Sons corrupted them all), though they're not based on BT, they're actually a Salamander successor chapter. Didn't know about the Templar-Librarian thing (or maybe I'd just stored it at the back of my mind).

Why are they non-BT Templars? They've got a temple (or did have, until the Thousand Sons attacked it and corrupted three quaters of the Chapter... you get the drift).
:cyclops:


----------



## redredred (Mar 26, 2008)

thers a good thing about trait gaurd on the uk and us website


----------



## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been reading through the old guard codex' for inspiration and I'd like to see a trait that lets you take a full rough rider army or human bombs so you could recreate a penal legion. there are some fantastic stories in the old books and if it wasn't so difficult to get the models i'd love to do a ratskin militia army,like in the 4th edition i think army guides, i'll have to settle with the ratskin snipers attached to my light inf units and the ratskin vets i made.


----------



## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

I'd have gone with:

Hotshot power packs: 10pts a squad (GI only) once a game the squads lasguns/laspistols may fire at S4 not S3.

Beloved officer: Only viable with a heroic senior officer. If the HSO squad is charged or charges, all unengaged GI units MAY make a single 6" move towards the combat OR directly forward. Only applies on the first assault/first time he's assaulted.

Dug in like rats: The guard player may place D3 pie plate minefields on the table BEFORE deployment.

Combined assault: Any GI unit within 6" of a tank may add +1 to its leadership.


----------



## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

that minefield one is really cool.

here's of a similar vein.

Master Strategists: The unit is led by an officer who has studied defensive warfare extensively. As a result, before placement has begun, roll a D6. On a roll of 1-3, place D3 pieces of razor wire. On a 4-6, place D3 barricades. Each piece should be no more than six inches long, and an inch thick. These may be placed anywhere in your deployment zone.


----------



## Shugotenshi47 (Mar 2, 2008)

Special rule for my Japanese IG

Banzai charge: May move up to 9 inchs in movement phase but may not use cover saves, shoot, or stop moving until they assault the nearest enemy unit. Gain furrious charge when they assult


----------



## shas'o grif (Mar 25, 2008)

i have a gaurd army cosisting mainly of tanks so i dont know much back ground about them


----------

