# 40k Rumours - CSM Revamp



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Rumours have been swirling around for a long time about the Chaos Space Marines and just what the hell GW is planning with them, it's been so long since they've have an actual update and felt as if GW is actually bothering to support them. Well some more rumours leaked last night regarding that, and they are promising if a bit salty.



Bell of Lost Souls said:


> -Tzeentch and Khorne will front the CSM revamp.
> -The release pattern for CSM should be similar to that of Age of Sigmar, a move away from Chaos Undivided and focusing on what really makes Chaos distinct. Ie; The 4 Gods.
> -The Cults will be expanded to the point they can form their own mini codexes with the Traitor Primarchs at their head.
> -“We heard you liked your Rubics with guns, so we gave them swords instead.”
> ...


So apparantly 2017 will be the year of the Chaos Marine. We'll see multiple themed releases based around all four of the Chaos Gods, though as usual Khorne will be headlining but this time with Tzeentch sharing the stage. We'll see the Daemon Primarchs make their way to 40k with plastic releases, and the Rubricae Marines are getting a revamp with new options and kits. It seems the idea is to make the Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines and Rubric Marines into their own miniature armies that can be led by the Daemon Primarchs, a thing I dearly hope is true as I would kill to be able to make a Slaaneshi CSM list with Fulgrim in command. Or a full Rubric Warband with Ahriman.

The Rubric however sound like the best part of this. Rubrics with guns are what we know, but melee armed Rubrics as well. Several varieties?? Does that mean Rubric Terminators and Dreadnoughts? The former has appeared in artwork once or twice since 40k's inception but they've never really had a concrete appearance in the lore, while the latter is an unknown value (what happened to the Sons Dreadnoughts? Did they go Rubric or were they safe from it? It's never been explored.) If a true Rubric army becomes possible, it is a definite buy for me.


LotN


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

source? it seems realistic in some way...but... i dunno.


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

Just spotted these on FB

And some more...


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

Interesting. I'm not really invested in what chaos is doing these days but I always look forward to new models. 

The new lore almost always seems ridiculously apocalyptic as Abaddon gets up to his old tricks and Scooby-Doo and Shaggy need to stop him. Oh wait . . . wrong cartoon villain. Meh. 

New models could be cool.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

I guess this picture is more relevant here:










Really stoked for this campaign.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

So I guess the new GW name for "Chaos Space Marines" is "Heretic Astartes"? Meh... I think "Excommunicate Traitoris" would be better.

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I wonder what the Favored of Chaos box is...


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Has anyone seen leaked pictures of the inside of Traitor's Hate?


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

Wonder what Favoured of Chaos is


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

Supposedly the word on the street is its a prince and 15 possessed. But I don't know who would buy that. Not unless princes and possessed get a major boost.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

DaisyDuke said:


> Supposedly the word on the street is its a prince and 15 possessed. But I don't know who would buy that. Not unless princes and possessed get a major boost.


They've been doing Formations for almost every multi-box kit that has been released, no? Buff or no buff it will likely be plug-and-play at least and make sense within the parameters of the new campaign I'd hope.


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

Well found this 
C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_14284838_10153865857293848_2003333056_o_zpsmr9lgei2.jpg Photo by KhadorBlood | Photobucket
And it's not looking good from a formation standing


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

Is there even a change to Khan's rules that anyone can notice?


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

DaisyDuke said:


> Well found this
> C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_14284838_10153865857293848_2003333056_o_zpsmr9lgei2.jpg Photo by KhadorBlood | Photobucket
> And it's not looking good from a formation standing


What don't you like about the formations? They're getting pretty good reviews from most the people I've seen talking about it. I got given a decent size Chaos army, this has definitely given me some obvious avenues of expansion (based on what models I have vs. formation requirements) that I am pretty interested in.


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

Don't get me wrong there are some OK to good formations. The main problem chaos has is how much it costs for mediocrity. 
But your right I should look to the good. Who doesn't want a fully ob-sec warband. Backed up by some raptors. I'm also going to make it rain with the kharne one.
I do have some issues with some of the others, but I'll wait to see the book before final judgment. Hopefully there will be some new relics.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

The Warband is pretty big, but three core choices! Load up on Cultists and take auxiliary formations as you want. Raptors and Warp Talons jumping into combat from Reserve will be sweet with or without charge bonuses.

I'd wager there's a lot not spoiled in the book but I've heard nothing of any new relics. At least you get four new psychic disciplines though..?

Much more needs to be spoiled for a real assessment for sure.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

ntaw said:


> The Warband is pretty big, but three core choices! Load up on Cultists and take auxiliary formations as you want. Raptors and Warp Talons jumping into combat from Reserve will be sweet with or without charge bonuses.
> 
> I'd wager there's a lot not spoiled in the book but I've heard nothing of any new relics. At least you get four new psychic disciplines though..?
> 
> Much more needs to be spoiled for a real assessment for sure.


no relics ighted, and psy disciplines are the same as the loyalists counterpart, with different names...so..yeah.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Hey Nef, your links are broken. Fb is terrible to link to because they seemingly randomly switch the url of the picture, breaking links on forums left right and centre.

Also, just because they echo the same psychic trees doesn't mean it's all the same powers. Even if they were there's some great use in those tables.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

ntaw said:


> Hey Nef, your links are broken. Fb is terrible to link to because they seemingly randomly switch the url of the picture, breaking links on forums left right and centre.
> 
> Also, just because they echo the same psychic trees doesn't mean it's all the same powers. Even if they were there's some great use in those tables.


Hey ntaw, thanks!
I've deleted old post and here is a link to aphotobucket with said formation. this should work.
C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_14284838_10153865857293848_2003333056_o_zpsmr9lgei2.jpg Photo by KhadorBlood | Photobucket

About psy powers there has been many confirmations about the fact that they are the same with name changed, but we will see.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Well, this is copy+pasted with different fluffage but the same core rules:










Nuts. Ah well, it does seem to be Khorne based. That Ahriman mini in plastic might just be a sign of some more love down the road for Chaos though.


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## DkMiBuch (Feb 1, 2013)

That obliterator formation, Cul of Destruction, sounds pretty interesting. 

You could just have one unit of three oblits, and two units of one with a single Warpsmith using the Empyrionic Guidance Rituals on the unit of three.

Think that would work, or too big of a cost?


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

DkMiBuch said:


> That obliterator formation, Cul of Destruction, sounds pretty interesting.
> 
> You could just have one unit of three oblits, and two units of one with a single Warpsmith using the Empyrionic Guidance Rituals on the unit of three.
> 
> Think that would work, or too big of a cost?


Well it's not like we are having 500 pts of free stuff like loyalist astrates but it can work :grin2:
sadly, the warpsmith is not cheap and it will also die swiftly if alone. 
You must then put him in some unit for protection. I can see the lost and the damned working well in tandem with the obliterator formation.
at around 900 pts you have a warpsmith, an apostle, 60 respawning cultists and 5 nurgle oblits. 
Add a fist of the gods with 3 vindicators and another warpsmith and we still are at less than 1500 pts, spare points to increase cultist units.
Actually not bad. not Eldar/Tau/Necron good, but not shit either!


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

I don't think the psychic powers are completely identical - I saw leaks of them last night.


Soulswitch would seem to be electrodisplacement (Think I've got the names right) but soulswitch has a line about if a unit is swooping it automatically becomes gliding.


Does this mean that you can fling a flying 'thirster across the table and then charge?


I'm looking forward to using the warband, raptor and helpack formations. Should make for a fun game


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

I'm looking at this:










It's identical except for names and fluff to Technomancy. No worries from me on them copy/pasting it over but I'm sure there will be butt hurt over it from some people.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

ntaw said:


> I'm looking at this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm actually quite happy that we don't get the worst version of something for once. Until there is appropriate fluff behind it, everything can have the same effect. I think it's cool.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

The new book is going to be titled; "_Codex Messiah: Very Naughty Boys_"......


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Same here, Nef. Those tables are chock full of psychic goodies.


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## DaisyDuke (Aug 18, 2011)

The powers are good but what's with the reference to power of the machine spirit, as we don't have that on any of our vehicles.


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## Einherjar667 (Aug 23, 2013)

DaisyDuke said:


> The powers are good but what's with the reference to power of the machine spirit, as we don't have that on any of our vehicles.




Arent many of the chaos vehicles salvaged from current battles? If they belonged to an imperial army, then theyd still have a machine spirit.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

DaisyDuke said:


> The powers are good but what's with the reference to power of the machine spirit, as we don't have that on any of our vehicles.


It grants PotMS unless the model has it already, then it grants +1BS. 

Couldn't you have PotMS on an allied vehicle? I know, I know, heresy and all, but this is after all copy paste. At least it's a clearly written rule right?


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## Squire (Jan 15, 2013)

I'm excited by the new CSM rules; they may not make CSM a top tier faction but I love all the extra choices available. Free VotLW across the board may not seem like much but a free boost to leadership is welcome and hatred against all imperial factions is pretty nice considering lots of factions that it isn't applicable to (orks, nid, DE) aren't stronger than regular CSM anyway. What they've done to boons is another small but cool change.

Regarding the warband I guess it depends what you think of regular CSM squads. If you don't rate them at all it's a bit of a non starter, but otherwise the options aren't bad. For the elite slot a small chosen squad in a rhino with lots of special weapons is a safe bet, the fast attack slot has bikes (raptors are decent too) and now dreads come with four attacks I don't think havocs are an automatic choice over them, especially if you have lots of armour on the table.


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## ExaltedUrizen (Jul 26, 2013)

Yeah just got my copy of traitors hate and these formations/psychic powers are really cool


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## DkMiBuch (Feb 1, 2013)

Squire said:


> ... and now dreads come with four attacks I don't think havocs are an automatic choice over them, especially if you have lots of armour on the table.


I've been away from the game for a while, so I may have missed something. What do you mean dreads come with four attacks?


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## Squire (Jan 15, 2013)

DkMiBuch said:


> I've been away from the game for a while, so I may have missed something. What do you mean dreads come with four attacks?


Well the last codex space marines increased their dreadnought's attacks to four, then in the recent codex FAQ's they increased dreadnought attacks in other codexes in line with that, including the helbrute. In the new chaos decurion the main core choice requires either a helbrute or a unit of havocs; previously the havocs seemed the better choice (and may still be depending on the list) but I think four base attacks (five on the charge, six if charging with rage, seven if charging with rage and an addition fist/hammer) makes it a tougher decision. 

Some will say (rightfully so) extra attacks don't make them any harder to kill, but if the opponent doesn't have the time/resources to deal with one it could be a menace. They're a cheap way to provide a lot of S10 AP2 attacks


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## Alfadir the Eternal (Oct 10, 2016)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Bell of Lost Souls* 
_-Tzeentch and Khorne will front the CSM revamp.
-The release pattern for CSM should be similar to that of Age of Sigmar, a move away from Chaos Undivided and focusing on what really makes Chaos distinct. Ie; The 4 Gods.
-The Cults will be expanded to the point they can form their own mini codexes with the Traitor Primarchs at their head.
-“We heard you liked your Rubics with guns, so we gave them swords instead.”
-Magnus and Angron will be the first Traitor Primarch releases.
-That doesn’t mean you won’t see some Undivided releases. You will, it is a full revamp of the range afterall. Just that releases will be themed ala Age of Sigmar stuff has.
-2017 will be good for 40k Khorne players.
-Infact alot of what the 2nd 40k End Times book is about, is Abbadon unleashing Kharn on the Imperium.
-Chill your beans, you’re getting new Rubics of several different varieties soon.
_
Just getting back into tabletop this winter, though I'm questioning whether I should wait till the new codex launches before I start building/purchasing any new models. I'm sitting on a wide selection of models still in spurs and would rather save myself the money now if Chaos goes through a big re-vamp.

I'm looking to build a fluffly Black Legion list with as much power armor on the table as I can field, though I'm looking forward to all the changes I'll be waiting for the Undivided options the most. Should I hold off on painting up my basic Chaos Marines, Do any of you think their models will be re-vamped or should I be safe to re use basic CC 10 man marine squads come their new codex? I understand any answer is a hypothetical one, just curious what others think.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

GW has been doing more Campaign released with amalgamated Codices only released in digital format, so there's always the possibility that the current printed Codex will still be in use with a Campaign book augmenting the rules in it.


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## neferhet (Oct 24, 2012)

So, yesterday this rumors hit dakkadakka...
*
via Andross on Dakka*
Right so at the end of my thread regarding the Infernal Tetrad. I got into a bit of gossip mongering about some up coming Chaos Space Marine and Daemon products. 

So this what I know as true. As much as can be expected of an early rumer. 

A good friend of mine who works in my local GW store, has let me in on some information. Now he's told me things that are "coming soon" before and he's always been proved right before. So I personally believe what he's told me. 

Things he says are coming soon. a new daemonkin style Codex: for the three remaining Chaos powers, A new set of Chaos data cards comprising of the tacticle objective cards (originaly available with with the special edition version of Traitor's Hate) and new Pykic Power cards for Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh, with seven powers for each and conversion kits for the Chaos Powers like those for Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc with 10 shoulder pads champion heads weapons. So yeh if he's done his clearvoyant trick I'll be very very busy through next year. If he gets anything else he lets me in on I'll be sure to share.

Not a single crossover Codex: for all three one whole book for each of them. 

The Data Cards are the only thing he said had stuff for all three in, the faction spesific psykic powers. 

The only thing I don't get is how the updated psykic powers will play into the new Codex:s. 

Point. If we're getting new powers there will need to be a printed version of them. Not everyone will be able to afford or want the the cards they're a nice touch and I always get them for any factions I own, but they are for everyone. 

Now l lets take what I've heard to be true. If we're getting three new Codex:s it stands to reason that each discipline will be in the appropriate faction Codex:. But I know some people who flat out dislike the Daemonkin thing. should they have to buy three Codex:s they don't really want just so they can have the updated psykic powers for an army and Codex: they already own? 

And Azreal13, when I said a daemonkin style Codex: I meant a Codex: each for each chaos power, that do for each of them, what Khorne Daemonkin does for Khorne unit's, but won't necessarily have "Daemonkin" in the title, 

And on the subject of scepticism. Any man who is not sceptical about another man's rumour is a fool. Any man who endorses said rumour whithout evidence is a fool among fools. 

I am sceptical about everything. The reason that I'm fairly confindent of these rumours is the guy that told me has tipped me off on things before. and everything he's told me about I now own. Like I said in my thread on the Infernal Tetrad "Sorcererof Khorne". His early info has always proved to be correct. I just hope they get the Data Cards before Christmas as I'll need them for the legion Codex: I'm wrighting. 

"Please GW, please before Chrimbo,"

Right. as I understand it he means. A Codex: for Tzeentch, a Codex: for Nurgle and a Codex: for Slaanesh with new rules, wargear, formations, etc. For armies built around both mortals and daemons dedicated to the aforementioned power/faction. But they probably won't have "Daemonkin" in title.

Yeh I'm pretty sure we'll be getting more campaign books to represent the activities of Abaddon's 13th black crusade. a lot more.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

being this a "i heard from a friend..." type of rumor, i call bullshit. but anyway, that's what we got.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

about time for the other "demonkin" codexs to come out.

New psychic powers might be nice.

new kits will be welcomed.


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