# Psyriflemen?



## Justicar Cusus (May 20, 2012)

I'm a Grey Knight player and I own two that I have built and painted. Am I being a terrible person for doing this? I used them at the last tournament that I went to and got second, that is the first time I have ever placed at a tournament. Should I keep using them? Is it unsportsmanlike to field them? If I do continue to use them what sort of army should I build around them? I also have a land raider redeemer that I am itching to get out on the field with them. 

Any suggestions, comments, tips? 

-Cusus


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

No, keep using them, it is a good unit that anyone uses, just because the unit isnt shit doesnt mean you are being a good sportsman.


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## The Sturk (Feb 3, 2012)

I don't see why you shouldn't. Its a proper unit in your codex and just because others don't like it shouldn't keep you from using it.


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## Justicar Cusus (May 20, 2012)

Here is one off my current psyriflemen.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Seeing as they're _the_ best Heavy Support unit for your codex, I'd go ahead and take three.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Do you find them boring to play with?
If so then switch them around or swap in something else (NDKs are also very good), if you enjoy using them then keep them exactly as they are. If you are trouncing people in friendly games then you may want to weaken your army list in general, but as long as the games are competitive, even if you win most, then they should stay fun for both players and you have no reason to change.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

How else do GKs pop transports and light tanks?

You could just be getting a better player, with a better appreciation of your units and the rules, don't chalk your success to a couple of dreads


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## kain1989 (Dec 1, 2009)

If people are whining that you're army is "broken" or cheesy" it means they are poor sports. In a tournament the point is to run a great list and hope to win. I see no reason why you'd limit your options. And short of the vindicare assassin, grey knights have no other long range anti tank weapons. They aren't even that bad, I'm pretty sure that guard can run 2 hydras for almost the same cost.

but I agree with tim/steve, if you're trouncing people in friendly games, I'd tone the list down to make it more fun for both of you.

By the way, I love your dreadnought. You did a great job on it.


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

What? A decent unit in an army? That is simply not allowed! You will burn in hell for this outrage :angry:

Seriously though, its fine. Youre not the first to use them, and you wont be the last. If anyone calls it cheese, stare at them until they pee themselves. That always works.


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Justicar Cusus said:


> Here is one off my current psyriflemen.


Awesome model. Keep using it and the other. You said it was in tournaments, so don't feel bad for winning or placing..


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## Wax (Jan 6, 2010)

Barnster said:


> How else do GKs pop transports and light tanks?


What's that thing that GK have that's better than assault cannons and cost less at the same time? Oh yeah, psycannons...


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

In tournaments no-one should complain about anything you field... especially not a common unit. Don't be a dick, don't crow over how you are going to trounce someone (or how you just did) and keep things friendly and you'll have fun.

Some of my most fun games have been getting trounced at tournies... but then I've also played against complete dicks and have had no fun. Its more the people then what they use.


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## kain1989 (Dec 1, 2009)

@wax, Psycannons are great, but are only range 24, whereas the autocannons are range 48(pretty sure anyway). I'm honestly more afraid of the psycannons, but the extra 24 inches is a huge boon.


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## Ryao (Oct 6, 2010)

Dont listen to them, i had a group try to outlaw Yarric because he was too good. People who are poor sports get mad when you counter there "grand strategy" with a unit and then there next jump is that it is flawed. Its not flawed or broken untill FAQ states otherwise.


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

Commisar yarrick? how the heck does anyone use him? i keep trying and i keep failing.

i keep hearing about how good GK is... i have yet to fight it. Guess ill find out one day. They do post the majority of the top spots in tournaments, must be the flavor of the day.


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## Ryao (Oct 6, 2010)

yarric plus mob o' infantry usually works for me. Makes them all fearless and good to strike at an objective. Give the Sgt's power swords and you can compete with almost anything as they cannot be targeted. Just make sure your tight mob has some cover from blast weapons. 

In my opinion GK is great because no one is used to fighting a new breed of player, and there rules are good to begin with. 

Didnt mean to hijack the thread.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

They are good yes, but they aren't broken on their own to any extent, they just work really well with the rest of the GK list. If you are crushing people than its most likely your list as a whole is just well made. If you feel like swapping things up, try an assault cannon on one, range is shorter, but its not bad either.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

ARMYguy said:


> Commisar yarrick? how the heck does anyone use him? i keep trying and i keep failing.
> 
> i keep hearing about how good GK is... i have yet to fight it. Guess ill find out one day. They do post the majority of the top spots in tournaments, must be the flavor of the day.


More like flavour of the last 12 months and only increasing at that. They are the most powerful army, they turn bad players average and make good players great. They have an uncountable amount of builds and almost every unit is usable.


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

What i dont get is why dont we see DE winning tournaments? They seem far cheesier than even GK. 36 inch range mass amount of dark lances destroys any mech list and MC, and their infantry have the same BS as marines and stuff like venom mass shreds infantry, and blasters shred any tanks the lance spam misses.

But yet we dont see any DE winning tournies, only GK. Are GK even worse than the above?


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

ARMYguy said:


> What i dont get is why dont we see DE winning tournaments? They seem far cheesier than even GK. 36 inch range mass amount of dark lances destroys any mech list and MC, and their infantry have the same BS as marines and stuff like venom mass shreds infantry, and blasters shred any tanks the lance spam misses.
> 
> But yet we dont see any DE winning tournies, only GK. Are GK even worse than the above?


DE fly around in paper planes and wear paper for armour. They are good, but are beaten easily enough by most mech lists with good firepower, because their paper planes can be ripped open by S5 or more.

The 27 lances they pack against AV11: 18 hits, 4 Glances, 8 pens, so 2 glances saved and 2 pens saved (cover) which means they will only get about 4 results on vehicles per turn, a lot of which will be negligible

GK have anti-infantry that is better than DE (stormbolters, psycannons, psybolt razorbacks) and better anti-tank(psyflemen, psycannons) have army wide power weapons, almost unstunnable tanks and are wearing power armour, all for just a small bit more than a regular space marine. 

DE get raped in the arse by GK and necrons and Guard, as well as a good SW army and mech blood angels


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

If they use night shield you cant use melta guns basically at all since it removes 6 inches from all weapons hitting it. So there goes guard mech lists right there. And if you have las cannons, lets say a vendetta, you are only going to hit with 2 out of 3 usually, and then he flicker fields one of those pretty much every time, and then the other result does nothing if you are unlucky. Thats usually how it happens.

Maybe i am just bad and should buy a GK army


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

not having melta bonus doesn't really hurt when most vehicles are only AV11... and since they are open-topped you kill it on a 3+ on a pen (or even 5+ on a glance) with melta weaponry. Then it gets worse for the DE since their transports tend to explode... and their infantry can't really survive the S3 hits from that happenng.

My best ever round's shooting against DE stunned and immobalised 2 ravagers and blew up 3 raiders, taking down about 12/30 occupants... and that was with old necrons. The best weapons I was firing were S6, so its not like I was 'good' at anti-tank.


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

I have destroyed all of his raiders in an alpha strike and then most my whole mech army to the venoms with blasters. The wyches that were dismounted can still fleet across the board and kill everything in 1 turn. You wont kill 2 ravagers, 2/3 venoms, a razer wing and then all the squads of stuff that was in the raiders before it fleets over and still kills you in 1 turn, 2 max. That is my problem, i cant stop the wall o death. No matter how good i do in my first time i am getting destroyed in turn 2/3.

I wish the board that is played on is wider than 4 by 6. If it was a little wider stuff wouldn't be able to leroy jenkins across the table on foot which defeats the purpose of killing the transports.

I know this is off topic though, so back to the GK.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

ARMYguy said:


> I have destroyed all of his raiders in an alpha strike and then most my whole mech army to the venoms with blasters. The wyches that were dismounted can still fleet across the board and kill everything in 1 turn. You wont kill 2 ravagers, 2/3 venoms, a razer wing and then all the squads of stuff that was in the raiders before it fleets over and still kills you in 1 turn, 2 max. That is my problem, i cant stop the wall o death. No matter how good i do in my first time i am getting destroyed in turn 2/3.
> 
> I wish the board that is played on is wider than 4 by 6. If it was a little wider stuff wouldn't be able to leroy jenkins across the table on foot which defeats the purpose of killing the transports.
> 
> I know this is off topic though, so back to the GK.


Sounds like a case of good dice for you and him, then yours went south


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

related to dice, is it true large dice are better than small? he rolls large dice and always rolls better than my tiny dice.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

ARMYguy said:


> related to dice, is it true large dice are better than small? he rolls large dice and always rolls better than my tiny dice.


unless he is using weighted dice then no.


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

Iv made that joke before because how else does he roll all 5sand 6s for flicker.... lol


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

There is a method for rolling dice which increases your chances of a 5-6. It is easier to do with a larger die. With practice and time you can effectively get your probability of a 3+ to a 3:4 chance. However, it's usually noticeable.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

... and cheating.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Arcane said:


> There is a method for rolling dice which increases your chances of a 5-6. It is easier to do with a larger die. With practice and time you can effectively get your probability of a 3+ to a 3:4 chance. However, it's usually noticeable.


is it called cheating?


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## kain1989 (Dec 1, 2009)

actually larger dice are generally better. They are harder to cheat with. I'm not going to post how to load dice online, but all the usual methods are aren't as effective on bigger dice.

they are also easily readable by opponents. I love my big dice.

If you do see a guy rolling his big dice one at a time, rolling them very carefully and low to the table, he's cheating.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

mcmuffin said:


> is it called cheating?


Nope, not anywhere in the rulebook anyways. If you can find it by all means show the page number. 

Anyhow, I'm not condoning it or practice this myself, however the guy above said his friend used larger dice and always rolled well so I was giving a possible explanation.

Actually I'm looking into getting some casino dice myself for truer randomness incase my dice are actually jinxing me lol.


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

Half the time i think it is lucky and the other half it seems like people just always roll that save when it matters most. Guess i just have bad luck, that person is rarely me.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Called sod's law... always strikes when it matters.


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