# Sticky  Random Questions



## Androxine Vortex

Do you have any questions that don't really seem to fit any other threads and feel it wouldn't be worth making a new one just for it? I thought it would be neat to make this thread for everybody so I'll start off...

How long does it aprox take to become a space marine? This includes everything from after being selected until being part ov a chapter. And also, how long do techmarines have to train on Mars?


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## gauntsghost025

over 9000 days


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## DonFer

gauntsghost025 said:


> over 9000 days


That was the answer to which question? :biggrin:

I have one: What would happen if the Navigator Clans rebelled to the imperium? They are the only ones with the mutation, and the "eliminate the infidels" tactic used by the Inquisition would not work in this case..., what do you reckon?


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## Barnster

The navigators get the best of the best they are all treated as royalty, they would never rebel en mass


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## Baron Spikey

And since their power base is on Terra they'd be exterminated pretty damn quickly, or physically forced to serve the Imperium as slaves in short order.


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## 13illfred

I have two: 
What is the rate of fire for a standard bolter?

and

I've read about the depleted uranium and what not in the bolter ammunition detonating after penetration and ive also heard bolter ammunition referred to as mini nukes.. Do they full on explode or is it more of a subtle thing?


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## gauntsghost025

I don't think the explosion is as powerful as a nuke, but powerful enough to pulp your innards. Like a small grenade going off inside your chest. If your small enough it may blow you up.


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## normtheunsavoury

Yep, as far as I am aware Bolter ammo is explosive. 
I can't point to any definate source but I'm sure I read it in lots of different places that bolter ammunition explodes after penetrating whatever it's been fired at.
Making a bit of a mess.


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## 13illfred

cheers :grin:


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## ThatOtherGuy

How strong and tough is power armor? I keep hearing stories that it can shrug off a ton of crap, making it look indestructible, but then I hear that a f-ing shuriken pistol can punch a hole in it.


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## Baron Spikey

It's mass reactive, meaning it doesn't explode until it's embedded in something, it can explode a human-sized foe and crack ceramite but it won't take down a tank easily even in the fluff- and it's not depleted uranium in the average bolt, it's depleted deuterium.


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## chromedog

Deuterium being one of the heavier (and radioactive) isotopes of Hydrogen.
Commonly refined from seawater.

One of the more ridiculous bits of 40k fluff.


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## normtheunsavoury

ThatOtherGuy said:


> How strong and tough is power armor? I keep hearing stories that it can shrug off a ton of crap, making it look indestructible, but then I hear that a f-ing shuriken pistol can punch a hole in it.


No armour is completely impervious to damage, it always has weak points.
Suits of power armour are designed to withstand a lot of damage but there will still be areas like the joints where it's hard to give as much protection.
So a SM in power armour could withstand massive amounts of damage as long as that damage hits the right part of the armour, if, on the other hand, a shurikan pistol happens to be targeted at just the right spot the armour becomes useless.


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## Hired Goon

They also have some sort of a sub sonic round for bolters.
Mention of it in HH book False Gods, just before leaving for Davin"s moon.


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## Deathscythe4722

13illfred said:


> What is the rate of fire for a standard bolter?


0.8 Rounds/Second, or 48 shots per minute.

Heavy Bolter is 2 Rounds/Second, or 120 shots per minute.

Figured this out while playing the intro campaign to Deathwatch. For anyone else who's played it: *Apothecary hurrdurr!*


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## TheSpore

if slaanesh is the god of sex why is it that tzeench has a thousand sons? (JK)
What in the hell is plasma actually?


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## Aramoro

Plasma is the 4th state of matter. Liquid, Solid, Gas and Plasma. 

Thus

Aramoro


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## Androxine Vortex

When you kill daemons in the physical universe, they are sent back to the warp and this works also with power weapons. What would happe if a daemon was "killed" in the warp? Would it have to be utterly destroyed?


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## Baron Spikey

Androxine Vortex said:


> When you kill daemons in the physical universe, they are sent back to the warp and this works also with power weapons. What would happe if a daemon was "killed" in the warp? Would it have to be utterly destroyed?


No it would just reform, a lot quicker than it would in the physical plane- the only way a daemon can be truly destroyed is if it's creator-God reabsorbs the energy used to create the daemon in the first place.


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## Androxine Vortex

So then fighting in the warp is practically useless?


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## Turkeyspit

When I first saw the title, all I could think of was "How much wood would a Space Marine chuck if....", well you get the point.

Here are a few I've been wondering about:

- Since bolters and bolt pistols use the same 'caliber' of bolt as ammunition, is it fair to assume then that the magazines are interchangeable?

- How much ammunition does a heavy bolter's backpack contain? Given the firing rate, how quickly would a Devastator Marine deplete his load? Where is the power supply for the SM's armor: underneath the backpack?

- I seem to recall from Rogue Trader that a Space Marine's power supply also housed stabilizing jets. How effective are they? Can they be used to jump to higher, or survive a fall from a greater height?

- What is the real deal with teleporters? The rulebook states that only Terminators can use teleporters, but many of the BL books (_Fallen Angels_ and _Warriors of Ultramar_ to name a few) describe regular Tactical Marines getting teleported. /confuzled


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## NiceGuyEddy

I'll give some of these a stab 



Turkeyspit said:


> - Since bolters and bolt pistols use the same 'caliber' of bolt as ammunition, is it fair to assume then that the magazines are interchangeable?


There are different "marks" of bolters and bolt pistols. I would imagine that the magazine from an astartes bolter would not fit into the handle of Gaunt's compact bolt pistol. 

In general bolters are only carried by astartes because of weight and recoil. Although I'm not certain I'd say that apart from maybe the ammunition a "human" bolt pistol is nearly completely different to an astartes bolter and maybe even an astartes bolt pistol. 

So to sum up Astartes gear probably not interchangeable with human but probably interchangeable with other astartes gear. And the same goes for guard issue gear. 



Turkeyspit said:


> - How much ammunition does a heavy bolter's backpack contain? Given the firing rate, how quickly would a Devastator Marine deplete his load?


No idea, the size of bolt rounds and space marine dimensions vary from source to source so I couldn't even hazard a guess by "mathing" out the volume of the ammo bandolier on a devastators back. I would say it would be completely unrealistic though. :laugh: 



Turkeyspit said:


> -Where is the power supply for the SM's armor: underneath the backpack?


The power supply IS the back pack its called a "power plant" or something....



Turkeyspit said:


> - I seem to recall from Rogue Trader that a Space Marine's power supply also housed stabilizing jets. How effective are they? Can they be used to jump to higher, or survive a fall from a greater height?


I remember that one too, vaguely. I think it was a throwaway comment. Space marine back packs are not jump packs, it wouldn't be the first time a writer got excited.



Turkeyspit said:


> - What is the real deal with teleporters? The rulebook states that only Terminators can use teleporters, but many of the BL books (_Fallen Angels_ and _Warriors of Ultramar_ to name a few) describe regular Tactical Marines getting teleported. /confuzled


In game terms I think that rule is there to prevent mass teleportion and make SM's overpowered. In fluff terms any SM can do it and I have a nagging feeling that humans can too but can't remember whether I read that or dreamt it up.

Hope this helps.


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## Turkeyspit

NiceGuyEddy said:


> The power supply IS the back pack its called a "power plant" or something.....


Just to make sure I was clear, I meant where is the power plant for an Astartes who is wearing the ammo-backpack of a heavy bolter? Is it built into the ammo-backpack?


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## Baron Spikey

Turkeyspit said:


> Just to make sure I was clear, I meant where is the power plant for an Astartes who is wearing the ammo-backpack of a heavy bolter? Is it built into the ammo-backpack?


I believe so, that's why it's so large to include the ammo hoppers as well as the power plant.


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## NiceGuyEddy

Turkeyspit said:


> Just to make sure I was clear, I meant where is the power plant for an Astartes who is wearing the ammo-backpack of a heavy bolter? Is it built into the ammo-backpack?


Ahh I see. 

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...ndex=1&aId=2600025&start=2&_requestid=2601892

The pictures here show that the ammo backpack seems to be slightly different from a regular back pack, but yeah it does seem to be built in to the power plant.

EDIT Insert cheesy fast and the furious quote. "Damn that guys fast!!" I agree with the Baron.


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## DonFer

I have a new one: What ever happened to the Knight, a one-man version of a Titan? Sounds like a lot of fun to have an "exo-skeleton" capable of carrying one Titan weapon.


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## Androxine Vortex

I'm sorry for posting this before but I didn't get an answer (the over 9000 didn't count :biggrin

How long does it take for a man to become a space marine? This means from selection all the way until fully-fledged and ready for battle!

How long do techmarines have to train on mars?

Thanks.


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## Baron Spikey

DonFer said:


> I have a new one: What ever happened to the Knight, a one-man version of a Titan? Sounds like a lot of fun to have an "exo-skeleton" capable of carrying one Titan weapon.


Well they might not feature heavily in 40k fiction, just as with the rest of the Mechanicus' forces, I imagine they're still around on certain Forge Worlds as defensive forces. With the mighty Titan Legions and the other diverse Imperial Organisations they don't really fulfil a role that can't be covered by something else to risk sending them to fight in off world campaigns.


Androxine Vortex said:


> I'm sorry for posting this before but I didn't get an answer (the over 9000 didn't count :biggrin
> 
> How long does it take for a man to become a space marine? This means from selection all the way until fully-fledged and ready for battle!
> 
> How long do techmarines have to train on mars?
> 
> Thanks.


It really depends on the Chapter, some like the Ultramarines start their aspirants off at training camps at around age 6-7 but the successful ones won't start to receive their implants until about age 12-13.

They of course won't be full Scouts until about age 18-19 at which time they'll usually stay in the Scout Auxillia for at least 4 years but it could be as much as 20-25 years depending again on the Chapter.

So if I give you a min/max style thing would that help?

The minimum time from aspirant to battle brother would be about 8 years (if we have a 14 year old aspirant, and he's only a Scout from 18-22).

The maximum, again in general, could be about 37 years (if we go with a 6 year old aspirant, and he's a Scout for 25 years).

8-37 years is a nice range, but it's extremely difficult to narrow down further as it varies so wildly because of an individual's suitability or a Chapter's predilection etc.

Note: And of course some Scouts never become Battle Brothers, but that very rare.


Phew- it's hard work being a fluff 'go to guy'.


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## chand223

In the DOW2 game, there is a quote of something to the effect of 'souls in the warp are currency' (during one of the parts with Eliphas if i remember correctly). This got me to thinking, What happened to the souls of the slain Primarchs? Is the soul of Ferrus Manus floating around in the warp somewhere, for instance?


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## Belthazor Aurellius

Power armor is exactly that. It's a powered suit of armor. Medeival knights were the tanks of their day, but you could take them down with a good lance to their neck. Un-horse them, then hit them heavily enough with hammers to dent the armor, and, well, they're out of the battle, if not dead.

Space Marine power armor is composed of ceramite and plasteel. Games Workshop's own made up variants of ceramic alloy and plastic alloy. An alloy is any combination of a metal and a non-metal. The theory behind ceramite and plasteel being, I think, that ceramic armor plates are known to be some of the toughest s*** around today, and some secret steel alloys are even tougher. Add to that, plastics are so ubiquitous, the STCs produced in the 20-30k era probably included a dozen different ways to accquire plastic's ingredients, make plastic, recycle plastic and re-enforce steel with plastic.

Erego, you have ceramite and plasteel. To give this some perspective. Look up dragonscale armor. It's a relatively new armor invention (don't confuse with dragon skin, this is spider-web protein spun into a silk-like fabric, which, in thicker layers, makes for excellent bullet-stoppage). Dragon scale is half-inch thick ceramic disks, overlaid in a scale-mail fashion of armored vest, with kevlar backing. (edit: Supposedly,) the dragonscale has been tested against abrams (edit: tank) cannons, and the cannonshell (edit: is alleged to have) stopped without penetrating the kevlar. I think it would still pulverize your innards, but, I don't know what happened to their ballistics-gel dummy, when they did this test, aside from I think it flew backwards several dozen yards.

Now, in 40k, space marines wear an armor suit of plate mail composed of inch-thick layers of ceramite, so imagine dragon scale, but harder, or perhaps as an alloy, it has some bend to it, so it doesn't shatter. I don't know. Underneath this outer layer of inch thick ceramite is usually a thin layer of plasteel, to re-enforce (though in some variants, I've read the plasteel is between half-inch layers of ceramite) the ceramite.

Beneath the outer layer of armor plating, a space marine has an entire suit of fiber bundles and flak-resistant fabric, along with several black-carapace interface points, which allow the space marine to feel what the armor feels (heat, cold, bullets and lasgun impacts), he can assess where the damage is hitting hardest, and turn his body so less damaged armor takes the brunt of the force. Space marine shoulder pads are also huge. They spread like a shield on either side of the marine, and I remember reading they are twice as thick as the rest of his armor, so... two or two and a half inches of armor plating over fiber bundles over kevlar over black carapace. The black carapace, while being a nerve-system relay for the armor, also functions as an inner armor suit, as even without the power armor, the black carapace protects him from simple knife and small arms fire, to some extent.

Space marine power armor can shrug off all but the heaviest weaponsfire, but does not make them invincible. It just makes them damn hard to kill. Don't get me started on terminator armor.

Edit: Replied before realizing how long ago that post was. Hope it was a helpful explanation though.

Edit2: Souls of slain primarchs are probably just like those of the ascendant primarchs. Living the life of a daemon prince in their respective pantheon (except that, well, each chaos god looks poorly on the concept of worshipping all four, and tends to try to rip a portion of your soul for themselves, but I'm sure for primarchs, the four would make exception and grant them... boons).


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## Davidicus 40k

Let's talk about cities!

How many citizens could an average hive tower (spire?) hold? If a city has one, is it automatically a hive city, or does it need the layers underground as well? 

I'm curious because I figured only hive cities had hive towers, until I read _Sabbat Martyr_. It'd make sense to build them in a city with limited space but overflowing population, I guess.


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## Androxine Vortex

I also understand that you need to be at a young age in order to become a SM. What is the max age limit do you think?


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## Baron Spikey

Davidicus 40k said:


> Let's talk about cities!
> 
> How many citizens could an average hive tower (spire?) hold? If a city has one, is it automatically a hive city, or does it need the layers underground as well?
> 
> I'm curious because I figured only hive cities had hive towers, until I read _Sabbat Martyr_. It'd make sense to build them in a city with limited space but overflowing population, I guess.


Hive Cities aren't initially built where there is a large population, they're built and then the population is shipped in to fill them.
Hive Cities are just many layered, sprawling metropolis' that don't have to have a large underground section- a large Hive City could hold about 1 Billion people so I'd imagine a sizeable Hive Tower could hold at least a couple of million.


Androxine Vortex said:


> I also understand that you need to be at a young age in order to become a SM. What is the max age limit do you think?


Well your body still needs to be developing so I imagine the latest the Astartes could reasonably leave it would be about the age of 16-17, there are precedents for adults becoming Space Marines but the success rate is like 0.1%.


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## Smokes

When an Inquisitor is raised to rank within the Ordo Malleus, they receive a daemonhammer, which is the symbol of the Ordo. It's pretty much an epic version of a hammer and I can imagine how heavy that thing is. The question is what if you can't pick it up? If you are an Ahmazzi-esque Inquisitor and you don't walk around with power-armor. Or if frankly you don't have the arm strength to haul that thing around? Just stick it in the closet?


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## Baron Spikey

Smokes said:


> When an Inquisitor is raised to rank within the Ordo Malleus, they receive a daemonhammer, which is the symbol of the Ordo. It's pretty much an epic version of a hammer and I can imagine how heavy that thing is. The question is what if you can't pick it up? If you are an Ahmazzi-esque Inquisitor and you don't walk around with power-armor. Or if frankly you don't have the arm strength to haul that thing around? Just stick it in the closet?


You've pretty much answered your own question :laugh:

If the Inquisitor can't use it effectively, or it's just doesn't fit with the way he works then he (or she) won't use it and will just put it in storage.


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## Smokes

I would kind of feel bad. You've got this weapon of pure awesomeness and you kind of feel....weak because you can't haul it around. But when you see the other Malleus Inquisitors panting and carrying the massive thing you just laugh and do a little dance.


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## Belthazor Aurellius

Well, the Adepta Sororitas fit antigrav suspensors to their heavy bolters to make them less unweildy (50lb heavy bolter instead of its actual 150lb weight)... I would imagine the Inquisition has access to such suspensors, so it would be more up to the Inquisitor in question of whether he/she wants to hang it over the fireplace as decoration, or carry it into battle, based on their preferred method of combat. And I think given how the Inquisition works, nobody's going to hold a gun to the back of your head and tell you to use the hammer (except, well, maybe a more powerful Inquisitor who insists it's your duty to carry your badge of office, like all Chaplains have Crozius Arcanums... and now C:SM says your chappy is armed with one and can't swap it for nothing.)


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## BearsofLeon

chand223 said:


> In the DOW2 game, there is a quote of something to the effect of 'souls in the warp are currency' (during one of the parts with Eliphas if i remember correctly). This got me to thinking, What happened to the souls of the slain Primarchs? Is the soul of Ferrus Manus floating around in the warp somewhere, for instance?


Well, as you remember, the soul of Horus was completely and utterly obliterated by the Emperor of Mankind. However, when the Emperor "died" He was still concious in spirit, not body. Think of the Warp of a separate Universe with two (or more) sides. One side (the smaller one, by alot) being protected by the Emperor of Mankind. So in here there would be the Souls of Vulkan, Corax, Ferrus Manus and such. Sanguinius would not be in there because of "family" issues. 

In the chaos side, there are the four planes of the Primordial Annihilator (title taken from Legion) basically, the chaos gods. Each god has their own domain, so basically their own planet. 

In between these "areas" is (i believe, im not sure) the location of the Eldar Webway.


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## Turkeyspit

Is the discharge of a Melta-gun/Multi-Melta visible to the naked eye?

From the descriptions I've read, the weapon heats its target through the use of microwave energy, which I believe, is invisible. But I _believe_ I read in the BL book _Fallen Angels_ that when their Melta-gunner fired on the rebel APC's, it emitted a 'beam' of some sort. (I lent the book to a friend so can't verify).


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## Burias

There was some talk about the Aquila but how do you do the Mechanicus sign? The Cog?


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## Stephen_Newman

I believe that normally melta weapons do discharge a visible light.

In ""Path of the Warrior" a squad of fire dragons in some fortifications fire red hot beams of light on the orks and their transports. So I believe the light is a volcanic red in colour.


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## NiceGuyEddy

Belthazor Aurellius said:


> Well, the Adepta Sororitas fit antigrav suspensors to their heavy bolters to make them less unweildy (50lb heavy bolter instead of its actual 150lb weight)... I would imagine the Inquisition has access to such suspensors,


Yeah they definitely do. An inquisitors interrogator uses a pair of them to wield a man-sized sword when duelling sarprdon in the first soul drinkers novel. 

My question would be what is the point in hitting someone with a hammer that didn't weigh all that much?

Edit: Never mind, forgot that power weapons dont really rely on weight.


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## Belthazor Aurellius

Well, I'm not good with math, but I seem to recall that inertia is measured by mass, not weight. So, even if an object only weighs half what it should (100kg sword weighing only 110lb instead of 220lb), it will still hit with the same force regardless of weight, why? Because you're not always dropping the eviscerator on their head, you're sometimes smashing it sideways, or if you do drop it down, you might pull it down faster than gravity with your abs, legs, arms and back, causing its speed to increase beyond what gravity would do anyways. An Eviscerator has chainsaw blades with monomolecular edges. If you give someone an equally sized sword with a power field on it? Watch out, they'll rend tanks and titans if they can get close enough!


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## NiceGuyEddy

Belthazor Aurellius said:


> Well, I'm not good with math, but I seem to recall that inertia is measured by mass, not weight. So, even if an object only weighs half what it should (100kg sword weighing only 110lb instead of 220lb), it will still hit with the same force regardless of weight, why? Because you're not always dropping the eviscerator on their head, you're sometimes smashing it sideways, or if you do drop it down, you might pull it down faster than gravity with your abs, legs, arms and back, causing its speed to increase beyond what gravity would do anyways. An Eviscerator has chainsaw blades with monomolecular edges. If you give someone an equally sized sword with a power field on it? Watch out, they'll rend tanks and titans if they can get close enough!


+Rep for that. I'm an economist, it rarely comes in handy, so I unlearned most of my physics upon graduation.


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## Androxine Vortex

When daemons materialize into our universe, how long can they stay there? (After a time, do they just phase back intot eh warp?)


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## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> When daemons materialize into our universe, how long can they stay there? (After a time, do they just phase back intot eh warp?)


Depends on a multitude of factors:

Strength and proximity of nearby warp rifts if any.
Strength of the barriers between warp and realspace. This in turn depends on number of psykers in the area. Sects or cults of worshippers can also help. 
Any ritual summoning spells can maintain them indefinitely so long as the spell is continually powered.


So for example, a typical world with a low rate of psykers may only provide a small window for daemonic incursion, lasting only months or weeks. 

A stronger window (high ratio of vulnerable psykers or cultists) could doom a world for years or centuries, and a world such as those within the EoT or Maelstrom will sustain daemons forever.

This is of course, a very generalised view of it, given from the opinion of someone who has a very scientific way of looking at things. (necron player...) Someone else may be able to give a more detailed answer.

CotE?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> When daemons materialize into our universe, how long can they stay there? (After a time, do they just phase back intot eh warp?)





Serpion5 said:


> Someone else may be able to give a more detailed answer.
> 
> CotE?




You pretty much said what needed to be said _Serpion_, but to add to your point:

In order for a Daemon to break through into the mortal universe there must be a weakening of the barriers between Warpspace and Realspace (a Warp Rift). These Warp Rifts can occur randomly/naturally or they can be manufactured by a Chaos Power or knowledgeable mortal on either side. These Warp Rifts vary tremendously, from a slight thinning in the dimensional wall that may allow a single Daemon to extend some of its power and influence into the mortal realm to commune with or possess an individual, to vast tears in reality that entire, limitless hosts of Daemons may pour through. Of such value these rifts are, that entire wars are fought for control and possession of them in the warp.

As I said above, Warp Rifts either occur naturally/randomly, or are manufactured by a Chaos Power or a mortal. But there are other circumstances which can bring one about unintentionally; Warp drive implosions is a good example, uncontrolled and rogue psykers can unintentionally bring about rifts, as can cataclysmic wars (which spread death on a massive scale) which disturb the ebb and flow of the warp itself.

To further clarify how a warp rift can be opened by a Chaos God: it doesn't take a lot of energy at all for a Chaos God to open a small rift to allow a single or small number of daemons through into realspace, but a Chaos God will only rarely architect a rift big enough to engineer a full-scale daemonic incursion (which in itself can leave entire sectors devastated) because it may leave him vulnerable to the power and influence of his rival gods, and in the process may be at a disadvantage in the Great Game (by expending such amounts of energy).

As for how long daemonic incursions last after a warp rift has been opened, it varies. Some rifts which vomit forth entire legions of daemons may only last mere moments, the daemons becoming immediately trapped in the material realm and who will quickly succumb to the constant leeching of chaos energy as the rift closes. But essentially it is random and unpredictable, rifts may last seconds, days, years or even centuries. Some warp rifts have endured so long that they can be considered permanent, their energies now self-sustaining (Eg. The Eye of Terror and Maelstrom).

Daemonic invasions are all but impossible to stop by conventional means, the very act of warring against them feeds their own power, and considering large rifts mean they are limitless in number ensures its impossible to defeat them. Only by the closing of the warp rift can a daemonic incursion be defeated, and for the most part there is no way to do this except to let it run its natural course. Once the rift begins to close daemonic legions are at their most violent and dangerous, sensing that their time in realspace is almost up they enact even greater acts of genocide and chaos, and the defenders will ultimately suffer much more before the rift finally seals.

So in answer to the question, it varies greatly. Depending on the strength and way in which the warp rift was brought about, it could be hours or days or it could be centuries, or in the most rarest of cases it could be forever.


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## Serpion5

:goodpost:

See, what`d I tell ya? Detailed the living shit out of it, he did!


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## Androxine Vortex

How powerfull does a daemon or a chaos sorrceror/cult have to be to open up a rift? (i know it all depends on how large it is and how powerfull the psychic force is but try to explain it if you can):laugh:


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## Serpion5

In DoW Tembest (third book in the series) Ahriman and his cabal manage to open up a fair diddley of a warp portal to hack into the webway and find their way to a harlequin planet.

From the Cabal`s view, Ahriman cojures the power by himself, but in reality his is being aided by unseen daemons which are slaved to his will by arcane knowledge. 

Knowledge is power. :victory: And he guards it well.


So, to answer your question, it really depends on how talented the individual(s) in question are. A sorcerer like Ahriman would have little trouble damning a world if he really put his mind to it (which thankfully he hasn`t) but a lesser sorcerer may only manage a temporary seance.

Likewise from a daemon`s view, it would depend on his strength relative to the psykers` in the chosen area. 

A backwater world with a recent emergence of psyker births would be easy prey for any decent greater daemon to crack. But a world full of trained and conditioned psykers (think GK on Titan) would be utterly impossible. <cough>


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## Androxine Vortex

I like talking on the subject of daemons a lot I've noticed:grin: and I have two more questions;

When daemons are "formed" how do they become associated with gods? I think that they all initialy start off as having no allegiance but i don't know.

Does anybody know where I can find art depicting the warp? I know it's supposed to be incomprehensable but I just wanted to know.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> When daemons are "formed" how do they become associated with gods? I think that they all initialy start off as having no allegiance but i don't know.


Because daemons are formed by the gods themselves. The gods extract a tiny fraction of their overall power and mould it into a seperate and individual consciousness which then becomes a daemon. The daemons then share their patrons aspect and characteristics. The daemons are governed by their patron gods despite retaining individual ambitions and personalities. Although a Chaos God is able to ensure the loyalty of its daemon children by retaining the ability to retract its own essence from the daemon, which in the process destroys the daemon's essence.


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## VanitusMalus

Androxine you should pick up the Chaos Daemons Codex. There's a section that details each main Chaos's Gods realm and has a picture of each.


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## Androxine Vortex

VanitusMalus said:


> Androxine you should pick up the Chaos Daemons Codex. There's a section that details each main Chaos's Gods realm and has a picture of each.


Ok, I might take a look at it. I already know about the pictures of each of the chaos gods' realm from lex so I hope its different! Thanks


----------



## VanitusMalus

Probably the same pictures.

Ok I have a question and it's concerning the power pack of Space Marines. So if an opponent were to disable the pack for any reason would the Space Marine armoured suit shut thus not allowing him to move or anything? I guess then all the enemy would have to do is get a really big rock.


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## Serpion5

A space marine`s strength is such that he would still be able to move whether his suit was powered or not. The only difference is that he would be forced to lift and carry the full weight of the armour himself, thus it would be a hindrance more than a help. An example of this occurs in The Killing Ground (4th UM series) where Uriel is forced to fight wearing a suit composed of only a few unpowered pieces of armour. 

Terminator Armour might be a different story, being much heavier and more cumbersome to begin with. But I am not sure of any examples of this.


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## 13illfred

If the Old Ones created the eldar, did they also create the eldar gods? or were they just chilling in the warp or web way and decided to jump onboard the eldar train somewhere along the line..... same questions applies to orks aswell


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

13illfred said:


> If the Old Ones created the eldar, did they also create the eldar gods? or were they just chilling in the warp or web way and decided to jump onboard the eldar train somewhere along the line


Its unclear exactly what the Eldar Gods are/were. But its been speculated that they were Old Ones themselves who survived the enslaver plague, or that they were created by the Old Ones, or that they were created (in some way shape or form, directly or indirectly, and possibly as a result of their faith/beliefs) by the Eldar themselves, possibly as the psychic manifestation of the Eldar's psyche.



13illfred said:


> ..... same questions applies to orks aswell


Gork & Mork are the psychic manifestations of the Orkish races' consciousness or Waaagh!


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## Serpion5

The Eldar and Ork gods are a relult of the respective races beliefs and the effects they had in the warp. 

One theory I have heard postulated, and even considered at one point, is that the eldar gods are in fact the old ones themselves, but there is too much fluff to contradict this.

The Eldar gods became the focus of the Eldar`s worship and devotion after the Old Ones civilisation collapsed. After the c`tan went into stasis, the eldar claimed the galaxy. At this point, they were the dominant race and their gods so dominated the warp. The chaos gods undoubtedly existed at this time, but three did not have the same level of influence they later would and the fourth lay dormant.

With the fall of the eldar and the birth of Slaanesh, the Eldar gods were destroyed (or whatever) and the chaos gods able to achieve true dominion. At this point, the Great crusade had begun and Mankind inherited the galaxy, bringing the threat of Chaos with it.


The ork gods of course, are simply the epitome of orkish belief. Their influence ultimately is not deemed a serious threat to the four powers. :grin:


EDIT: Ninja`d by CotE. Should have known. 

EDIT: And Ninja`d Eddy!


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## NiceGuyEddy

Not 100% on this but I think the eldar gods were manifested in the warp as a direct result of the eldars psychic potential. Kinda a "if you wish hard enough it might come true." Never really thought about it though it does make sense as slaanesh came into being in a similar fashion i.e. eldar debauchery and Khorne may have arrived due to humanities wars and ravaging behaviour in the middle ages or some such lark.

Gork and mork similarly were the result of so many orks with latent psychic potential killing in their name.

EDIT: Eh..... yeah, what Serpion said.


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## 13illfred

Cheeeeeeeers for the help!!

i have another question regarding gods; is it possible that a chaos god through playing the great game acquires enough power to physically kill another chaos god, or will they continue to exist as long as the emotions/souls that feed them keep rolling in


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## Serpion5

Well, it is _technically_ possible. Remember that warp gods have died before, namely the eldar ones.

Currently however, Chaos is too evenly matched with itself for any one god to gain the absolute advantage. They are fickle, and two are likely to ally against another should they perceive one of their fellows to be a threat.

That is the nature of Chaos. They will struggle for and against each other for eternity.


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## The Boz

Eldar gods died when 99.999966784% of the Eldar population died. Basically, they ran out of soul fuel.


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## 13illfred

so man kind were to fail, they would drag the chaos gods down with them?


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## Serpion5

The Boz said:


> Eldar gods died when 99.999966784% of the Eldar population died. Basically, they ran out of soul fuel.


Eldar gods died when Slaanesh killed them. 



13illfred said:


> so man kind were to fail, they would drag the chaos gods down with them?


To a degree, but that in itself would not destroy them. Other races feed chaos, though humans are the primary power source.

As cited in Legion; Humanity is the ultimate weapon against Chaos, but also the greatest tool for Chaos... :spiteful:


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## 13illfred

Thanks for all the help serpion +rep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

one last question (i feel like ive hijacked the thread)

Are there any planets with advanced economic systems, or atleast a large free market system? or all resources across the entire imperium devoted to the essentials such as food, weapons, labour and constructions supplies.


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## Serpion5

13illfred said:


> Thanks for all the help serpion +rep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> one last question (i feel like ive hijacked the thread)
> 
> Are there any planets with advanced economic systems, or atleast a large free market system? or all resources across the entire imperium devoted to the essentials such as food, weapons, labour and constructions supplies.


No probs. :thank_you:

Imperial worlds all contribute in one way or another to the overall wellbeing of the Imperium. There are agri worlds, devoted to farming, Munitorum worlds which see to supplies and resource gathering, Forge worlds run by the mechanicum which lend manufacturing weapons and such to the Imperium and others. Regardless of the planet however, all are required to submit a tithe (a percent of the population as Imperial Guard recruits).

There are more world classes than this of course, but on the whole, The Imperium is divided into sectors and sub sectors, and these sections of the galaxy generally work to support those worlds close or valuable to them in some way. Thus the Imperium survives as a whole.


----------



## Burias

I have two questions (really many many more, just the two I am thinking of right now): 1-I have figured out, and seen threads explaining, how the characters make the "aquila salute." But there is also a salute that the Mechanicum uses, Ive seen it referenced just forget exactly where. Anyone know how it is done ? and 2-In "Blood Games" a character uses a displacer field to hide his stature while sneaking around the Emperors Palace (Amon I believe). I understand how this piece of equipment could be used to fool the many biometric sensors positioned around the Palace Grounds, but the story also leads me to believe that it is used to hide his size from the sight of the Custodes "naked eye." How exactly is this done ? Or am I just reading this all wrong ? Also, this was a great idea for a thread.


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## aboytervigon

i have a question who has the most power over mortals apart from the emperor ( the corpse rotting on the gold painted stool)


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## Stephen_Newman

Presumably the high lord of terra.


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## Vaz

Define mortals. 

Chaos followers are mortals, and may well be human, in which case they're not subject to the Emperor.

Eldar are mortals - when they die, they go into the Soul Matrix, where their knowledge goes towards aiding those capable of accessing it.

Obviously, most of the Imperium are mortals (being humans).

Tau are mortals?

However, I'm going to assume here, that you mean of those loyal to the Imperium.

In that case, it's one of three people, the Lord of the Departmento Munitorum, which commands one of the five sectors of Imperial Space, and through the hierarchy in the military chain of command, commands every single front line soldier, one day recruit or military based administration.

For the civilian side of it, which could well be the larger section of the Imperium, (common sense states, anyway), the Lord of the Administratum owns the majority, as he does the exact same as his Munitorum counterpart, but for the civilian parts.

Arguably, the one in overall command of them is the Lord Custodiann, the Emperors representative on the council of the Twelve High Lords, rumoured to be Constantine Valdor - if a case requires the vote, then majority rules - if theres an equal tie, and one of the sides includes the Lord Custodian will have the decider, if he so wishes. Alternatively, he can order a revote.

As to the salute, I have no idea, can't say I've heard of that. There's "making the sign of the aquila", which I assume is equal in size to the crossing of oneself in todays world.

Never read the book, so can't answer the next question.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Burias said:


> I have two questions (really many many more, just the two I am thinking of right now): 1-I have figured out, and seen threads explaining, how the characters make the "aquila salute." But there is also a salute that the Mechanicum uses, Ive seen it referenced just forget exactly where. Anyone know how it is done ? and 2-In "Blood Games" a character uses a displacer field to hide his stature while sneaking around the Emperors Palace (Amon I believe). I understand how this piece of equipment could be used to fool the many biometric sensors positioned around the Palace Grounds, but the story also leads me to believe that it is used to hide his size from the sight of the Custodes "naked eye." How exactly is this done ? Or am I just reading this all wrong ? Also, this was a great idea for a thread.


I presume you mean the Cog, sadly I have no idea how a human's fingers would even approximate such a symbol.

Displacer field operates akin to a camouflage field in that it reflects light around you, it's not impenetrable but skillful use of it can create the perception of true invisibility.


----------



## shaantitus

As i understand it the aquila is the hands flat and crossed palms to the chest with the thumbs hooked together. The fingers represent the wings of the aquila and the thumbs the two heads of the aquila. The meshed cog symbol is the fingers splayed and bent at the first knuckle. Then mesh the bent fingers so that they represent the meshing of gears.


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## VanitusMalus

I have a question. They say every soul shines like a little beacon in the warp, from a lowly human whose soul shines like a candle to psykers who souls shine like stars. Now my question is are the Tau soulless? As they have no psykers and I assume are completely incapable usage of psychic abilities of any sort (eventhough I read somewhere they theorize the Ethereal Caste may have some psychic control of their fellow Tau). So again are the Tau soulless? 

Well in addition to this question other than Eldar and Humans do other creatures shine in the warp. Such as Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, etc and do they attract the denizens of the warp even to the point where they can be corrupted and have chaos worshipping counterparts, like the renegade legions of humanity and the Chaos Space Marines. If your answer is coming from a novel from the BL can you reveal the title. I'd love to read the book.


----------



## aboytervigon

sorry I was kinda meaning high powers chaos gods or really really powerful entities like the emperor and kinda wanting the question to go to humans maybe eldar l'll specify next time


----------



## Chompy Bits

I've been trying to look at fluff about psychic inquisitors and have a couple of questions:
Do potential inquisitors who are psykers get sent to different ordos depending on their specific psychic talents?
How much would the psychic training differ between the ordos?
Which of the ordos has the highest concentration of psykers?


----------



## Serpion5

VanitusMalus said:


> I have a question. They say every soul shines like a little beacon in the warp, from a lowly human whose soul shines like a candle to psykers who souls shine like stars. Now my question is are the Tau soulless? As they have no psykers and I assume are completely incapable usage of psychic abilities of any sort (eventhough I read somewhere they theorize the Ethereal Caste may have some psychic control of their fellow Tau). So again are the Tau soulless?
> 
> Well in addition to this question other than Eldar and Humans do other creatures shine in the warp. Such as Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, etc and do they attract the denizens of the warp even to the point where they can be corrupted and have chaos worshipping counterparts, like the renegade legions of humanity and the Chaos Space Marines. If your answer is coming from a novel from the BL can you reveal the title. I'd love to read the book.


The tau are not soulless, but neither are they psykers. Their signature in the warp is very faint, barely registering at all.

Other races? The eldar are universally psykers, although only a few actually make use of their psyker abilities in any significant way (warlocks and farseers). Others may use minor telekinetic or telepathic skills in conjunction with eldar technologies, but apparently there is far less risk involved than in the war related powers. 
Orks also register in the warp, but they tend to generate a latent psychic field around themselves which is most evident in the power of the Waaaghhh! and is channelled most notably by the orks known as wierdboyz. In essence, the wierdboyz drawing on the orky waaaghhh energy functions similarly to other psykers drawing on the warp energy.
Tyranids, similarly do not draw directly from the warp, but rather from the Hive Mind. The Hive Mind presumably occupies the warp, accounting for the shadow in the warp that blocks astropathic communications and interferes with other psychic activity. Similarly, tyranid psykers drawing on the Hive Mind`s energy works the same way as a psyker using the warp again. There are hazards and occasional mishaps if a creature tries to channel too much energy. 

Necrons... The necrons themselves are not psykers, nor do they register in the warp, being essentially machines now. But for the necrontyr before, nobody knows because they are never really explained in this sense. The one clue to this is in _Hellforged_, where the Soul Drinkers are attacked by Necrons and Sarpedon fights a Necron Lord. The Necron Lord is vulnerable to the marine`s psychic attack because it is one of very few necrons who retains memory of when it was alive. 

"You have a soul. Or at least you used to..." 



Chompy Bits said:


> I've been trying to look at fluff about psychic inquisitors and have a couple of questions:
> Do potential inquisitors who are psykers get sent to different ordos depending on their specific psychic talents?
> How much would the psychic training differ between the ordos?
> Which of the ordos has the highest concentration of psykers?


Inquisitors recruit potential acolytes based on their own judgement, so I assume any ordo could use any level of skill. I do understand that the Hereticus tends to frown upon the use of psykers, but there are still psychic witch hunters according to the codex. 

Also be aware that an Inquisitor of any ordo can end up fighting any foe. Eisenhorn for example is an Alien Hunter but ends up doing more work in the line of Hereticus than actually hunting aliens...


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## Chompy Bits

Serpion5 said:


> Inquisitors recruit potential acolytes based on their own judgement, so I assume any ordo could use any level of skill. I do understand that the Hereticus tends to frown upon the use of psykers, but there are still psychic witch hunters according to the codex.


I was wondering about this because in the one Gray Knights novel it mentions that the ordo malleus specifically tried to recruit the one inquisitor from the ordo hereticus because of her unique psychic gifts. Also, is it possible to be an inquisitor and not belong to one specific ordo? I know some inquisitors move between the ordos (one of eisenhorn's colleagues, can't remember his name, did in _Malleus_ I think) but can you just be like a general inquisitor? I mean, like Serpion5 said, they can end up fighting a wide range of enemies so why limit yourself to one ordo?


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## Vaz

Most likely not, as you'd have to be recognised by the Ordo's to recieve your rank. There's no "Inquisitor School", it's just talented individuals who rise up through an existing Inquisitors Retinue, and as the Inquisitors are usually of one Ordo already, it would then make sense that an Explicator or Interrogator (apprentice Inquisitor) following a Xenos Inquisitor Lord would learn techniques that would prove more relevant to someone battling the Xenos, than a Daemon, Psyker, or Rogue Cardinal.

Edit - proven wrong by Spikey and Vraks pt3 - it states that Inquisitor Lord Thor Malkin of the Ordo Malleus had allies in not just the Three Major Ordo's, which suggests that there are minor orders present as well.


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## Baron Spikey

Yes, you can have an Inquisitor who is_ just_ an Inquisitor not a member of the major Ordos.

There are precedents and traditions that have the student follow the master into his Ordo but since the Inquisitorial Seal imparts uncontested power and privilege he/she can do what ever the hell they want as long as they remain loyal to the Throne.

Of course if they're not part of the Ordos they won't have access to all the specialised resources when combatting certain foes.


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## Stephen_Newman

Here is a question. In the dawn of war computer game it depicts assault marines as using the jump packs to hover above ground when moving. In a similar to real life question if a marine did not use his legs for an extended period of time would he get problems that we normal people like muscle fatigue?


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## Baron Spikey

Whilst Astartes can metabolise the majority of the lactic acid that builds up within muscles during activity even they are vulnerable to muscles atrophying.

Essentially Space Marines are vulnerable to all the same problems as humans, just at a much less pronounced rate of degradation.


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## Chompy Bits

That's actually a very good question. I think it could occur but the marine would have to be inactive for a REALLY long time to start having muscle fatigue and seeing as how marines are made for war the chances of a marine being inactive long enough for something like that to start happening is really small.


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## VanitusMalus

Here's a good question and Chompy Bits you inspired it. Where do Orks get their names?


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## Coder59

VanitusMalus said:


> Here's a good question and Chompy Bits you inspired it. Where do Orks get their names?


Dey pull em outta da hat of Mork!


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## Smokes

What would it be like for a Non-Astartes to use power / terminator armor? (Tyrus, Bolter Bitches, etc.) What about logistics such as taking care of personal business and frankly just maintaining the armor? In the HH novels the Astartes took their armor off and kind of just set it on the floor. I just don't see it being practical, even though awesome, for an Inquisitor.


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## Serpion5

VanitusMalus said:


> Here's a good question and Chompy Bits you inspired it. Where do Orks get their names?


Basically what Coder said, ork names probably just get pulled from whatever comes to mind.



Smokes said:


> What would it be like for a Non-Astartes to use power / terminator armor? (Tyrus, Bolter Bitches, etc.) What about logistics such as taking care of personal business and frankly just maintaining the armor? In the HH novels the Astartes took their armor off and kind of just set it on the floor. I just don't see it being practical, even though awesome, for an Inquisitor.


Power armour is equipped for extracting personal waste even for non astartes. In the Ciaphas Cain novels Inquisitor Vail once wears a suit of power armour to combat the tyranids on a tainted world. In one of the humerous footnotes she complains that the thing was full of decades worth of bodily remnants; bits of skin flakes, dried sweat and blood, plus years worth of recycled flatulence. 

Frankly, I think I`d rather just be shot. :laugh: The only real difference is that humans don`t have the black carapace like astartes, so don`t have access to the full capacity of the suit`s abilities.

But as for terminator armour, I don`t know. I`m not aware of any source where a non astartes wears a suit of termi armour, but I don`t imagine it would be easy for them.:scratchhead:


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## Smokes

In the Dark Heresy setting, Inquisitor Natius Osrinn essentially disappeared out into the Halo Stars and came back after a few decades wearing a suit of Terminator armor. Even if he is a beefcake it must be a pain just for him to walk.


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## Chompy Bits

Smokes said:


> In the Dark Heresy setting, Inquisitor Natius Osrinn essentially disappeared out into the Halo Stars and came back after a few decades wearing a suit of Terminator armor. Even if he is a beefcake it must be a pain just for him to walk.


That seems really dodgy to me seeing as even astartes require extra surgery to be able to use terminator armour properly. Plus, astartes are freakin' huge. How the hell would a terminator suit fit properly unless you're an inquisitor the size of Hector Rex?


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## Vaz

Build to measure. Bionics. And none Astartes Terminator Armour - it was originally built for those working in plasma cores (yet it still loses it's armour save thanks to said Plasma, go figure), but was adapted by the SM into what is now known as Tactical Dreadnought Armour, relatively unchanged for 10 Millienia.


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## Baron Spikey

It wouldn't take a beef cake to walk around in Terminator armour the same way you don't have to be a big guy to use Power armour- it's got artificial muscle bundles that ensure the wearer actually feels very little of it's considerable weight as well as enhancing their strength and reflexes.


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## Serpion5

Another reason for its rarity might be the incredible innconvenience required to don the suit of terminator armour. Humans have enough difficulty fitting themselves to a suit of power armour, so I can`t imagine termi armour would require any less than a team of aides to help the Inquisitor put the suit on.

It certainly wouldn`t be a matter of simply slipping on the pants and sliding on the cuirass before fixing on the sleeves and gauntlets...

Sure would look funny though.


----------



## pb100

Chompy Bits said:


> I was wondering about this because in the one Gray Knights novel it mentions that the ordo malleus specifically tried to recruit the one inquisitor from the ordo hereticus because of her unique psychic gifts. Also, is it possible to be an inquisitor and not belong to one specific ordo? I know some inquisitors move between the ordos (one of eisenhorn's colleagues, can't remember his name, did in _Malleus_ I think) but can you just be like a general inquisitor? I mean, like Serpion5 said, they can end up fighting a wide range of enemies so why limit yourself to one ordo?


The inquisitor you're thinking of is Titus Endor who switched from Hereticus to Malleus.


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## Chompy Bits

How frequent is the psyker mutation? Delta/gamma is one-per-billion and I know it varies from planet to planet but, on average, how often are psykers with iota/theta/eta (enough to be classified as being an active psyker) born?


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## Serpion5

This is one I can`t answer definitively, psyker to blunt ratio seems to vary from world to world. Some worlds seem to be blessed (or cursed) with a far higher rate of psyker births than others, a trait which can be affected by the planet`s gene pool and tolerance to psykers. I would say a billion to one could probably be considered the norm. Maybe CotE or the Baron have more info.  

It has not been unheard of for sudden dramatic increases in psyker births to happen periodically. A gift from the Emperor, or a ploy by Chaos perhaps?

EDIT: Sorry, didn`t actually answer your question. I`d say you pretty much have it. :biggrin:


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## Baron Spikey

It's a very open question, if you mean any hint of psychic potential, even if maybe that potential isn't fully realised and the carrier is just 'luckier' than most normal people then I'd say 1 in 10,000 wouldn't be outside the realms of plausibility.

If you mean proper psykers that would be detected easily by authorities and can actually use their powers even if they're uncontrolled I'd lean towards 1 in 100,000- and for those who actually have appreciable power it's be 1 in 1 million.

Pariahs/Blanks are generally 1 in 1 Billion, rarer than virtually any psyker excepting Alpha+.


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## Stephen_Newman

Here is another question about power armour. To what temperatures can the different marine armour types withstand? What pressure can it sustain? How far could a marine go underwater in his armour for?


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## Serpion5

Stephen_Newman said:


> Here is another question about power armour. To what temperatures can the different marine armour types withstand? What pressure can it sustain? How far could a marine go underwater in his armour for?


Codex fluff says a marine can survive for a limited time in a vacuum without armour. With armour makes it far longer.

In the space wolf codex there is a timeline entry that says the wolves attacked a tau outpost that was submerged under the ocean of a world.

So pressure? A lot. 
How long? Also a lot. 

Power armour seems to be quite versatile. I cannot say for sure about how high a temp they can withstand, but if they can survive on Fenris or in a vacuum, then I guess the cold doesn`t matter.

I`ll take a stab at heat, in Nighbringer an ultramarine gets hit by a petrol bomb. He continues to advance, while on fire. :victory:


----------



## Samu3

> I`ll take a stab at heat, in Nighbringer an ultramarine gets hit by a petrol bomb. He continues to advance, while on fire. :victory:


Either that ,or being the badass space marine that he is , simply doesnt care.... They tend to be funny that way:crazy:
On a more series note however. I have to agree Space Marine armour isnt exactly made in China or anything, its meant to withstand the mightiest and most brutal of the Emperors enemies


----------



## Shady ed

Serpion5 said:


> No probs. :thank_you:
> 
> Imperial worlds all contribute in one way or another to the overall wellbeing of the Imperium. There are agri worlds, devoted to farming, Munitorum worlds which see to supplies and resource gathering, Forge worlds run by the mechanicum which lend manufacturing weapons and such to the Imperium and others. Regardless of the planet however, all are required to submit a tithe (a percent of the population as Imperial Guard recruits).
> 
> There are more world classes than this of course, but on the whole, The Imperium is divided into sectors and sub sectors, and these sections of the galaxy generally work to support those worlds close or valuable to them in some way. Thus the Imperium survives as a whole.



Except for the planets of Ultramar


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## Baron Spikey

But Ultramar still provides a lot of regiments to the Imperial Guard even though they don't have to.


----------



## Chompy Bits

How tall are space marines actually? Some fluff puts them at 2m which really isn't that tall where others put them at 3m which would seem more like primarch height (if I remember correctly, _Decent of Angels_ mentions the Lion as being just under 3m tall). The most sensible height I've read about is 2.5m (Loken is descibes as this tall in _Horus Rising_) but with all contradictions in the various fluff sources I really have no clue. Some help please?


----------



## Baron Spikey

I always think of them as some where between 7ft-8ft in height, only taller than that in the very rarest of instances. Primarchs at about 8ft-9ft in general with a few, like Ferrus and Magnus, taller than this.

Of course all this is just my opinion, so believe what you will.


----------



## Deus Mortis

So wait, if most marines are 7-8ft and Primarchs are 8-9ft, does that mean that AphariusOmegeon was only about 7.5ft, as John (whatever-his-name-is) In legion is the only one able to tell them apart as they are, I believe he says "slightly taller", implying not by much. Or, alternatively, were all Alpha Legionnaires the same height of primarchs?


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## Baron Spikey

Only the tallest of the Alpha Legion Captains actually claims to be the Primarch when in his presence- so that Captain could easily be 8ft tall and Alpharius/Omegon might be amongst the smaller of the Primarchs at just over 8ft with the build of a large Astartes.


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## The Boz

Alpharius and/or Omegon actually strike(s) me as the type of guy(s) to walk around hunched all life, just for the hell of it.


----------



## cragnes417

wait how come they describe cypher with green armour even though he post to have black armour I mean he was one of the fallen (I mean the dark angel chapter didn't have there color to dark green until after the fallen's were sucked in the warp threw different places and time)?


----------



## chromedog

Because he has probably looted it off a DA corpse.

The armour is designed as a modular system - even older mks of pieces can be made to work with it (hence vets in newer armour with older detailing, helmets, etc).

Otherwise, fluff mistake made by writer.

He _should_ be wearing black, but by the same token, Marines _should not_ be using multilasers either. Some writers just don't know or plain forget (and then there is CS Goto).


----------



## Starship Trooper

I'm wondering 2 noob type things....

can my Guardians take their heavy weapons’ plat on in a Wave Serpent with them? Also if I have 20 Guardians I don't get to add 2 more for the weapons’ platform do I? It’s an upgrade not in addition.. right?


----------



## Stone220

Starship Trooper said:


> I'm wondering 2 noob type things....
> 
> can my Guardians take their heavy weapons’ plat on in a Wave Serpent with them? Also if I have 20 Guardians I don't get to add 2 more for the weapons’ platform do I? It’s an upgrade not in addition.. right?


The weapon platform can be taken on a Wave Serpent with the Guardian Squad it does not take up any space. Two of your Guardian squad will be the crew for the Platform anyway, they will go with it the weapons platform is part of the squad as are the two crew members required for it.
(Not sure this is the best place to ask this question though)


----------



## Starship Trooper

Good call... I missed the fluff part... my bad. Thank you though!


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Lorgar has sealed himself away inside the Templum Inficio for thousands of years and has remained undisturbed in meditation. Do you think he will ever awaken?

And if he does, what do you think he would do or change?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> Lorgar has sealed himself away inside the Templum Inficio for thousands of years and has remained undisturbed in meditation. Do you think he will ever awaken?
> 
> And if he does, what do you think he would do or change?


Well one way of interpreting the plot at the end of _Dark Creed_ is by viewing it as Lorgar wishing to usurp Abaddon the Despoiler as the Warmaster of Chaos...


----------



## Levendus

I've got about a million questions... I'm only about 0.1% through the books so my knowledge is pretty minimal. 

Well I don't understand the whole warp thing at all ... 
Where do I start.... 

What is a webway ? Can humans use them ? 

Is the Eldar warp different from the human warp ? 

If I looked out the window of my battle cruiser whilst travelling through the warp would it be all purple and swirly ? 

If I lived on a planet near a warpy bit of space would I have crazy dreams about demons ?! 

Do smaller transport ships have warp... do you NEED to have a 'choir of psykers' to travel through the warp ? 

When the Chaos marines 'retreat to the warp' what do they do... are they in a dreamy state !? Or is it the same as the normal plains ? 

What about the Dark Elder ? is their Black Fortress in the warp ? Could it be attacked by Elder or Chaos ? 

Thanks in advance for the responses


----------



## Baron Spikey

Levendus said:


> I've got about a million questions... I'm only about 0.1% through the books so my knowledge is pretty minimal.
> 
> Well I don't understand the whole warp thing at all ...
> Where do I start....
> 
> What is a webway ? Can humans use them ?


It like a series of tunnels (that's the best word for it though it's more complex than that) that's sort of partly in the Warp and partly in real space, it allows safe travel across the galaxy much faster than travelling through real space but slower than true warp flight.
Yes humans can use it, anyone can really, and the Eldar didn't build it their creators the Old Ones did.



Levendus said:


> Is the Eldar warp different from the human warp ?


The Warp is simply that, there aren't different Warps- it's all one encompassing, chaotic realm.



Levendus said:


> If I looked out the window of my battle cruiser whilst travelling through the warp would it be all purple and swirly ?


If you looked out of a window whilst travelling through warp space you'd go utterly insane, the warp is everything and nothing- it's raw emotion and insanity, it's never the same for any person that looks at it (that's also why the 'windows' on ships passing through are shielded so those aboard can't look through them).



Levendus said:


> If I lived on a planet near a warpy bit of space would I have crazy dreams about demons ?!


Possibly, your planet would be home to a higher than average number of mutants, your dreams would be unsettled and pervading sense of unnaturalness would permeat the atmosphere.



Levendus said:


> Do smaller transport ships have warp... do you NEED to have a 'choir of psykers' to travel through the warp ?


You need a Warp Drive to traverse the Warp itself and a Navigator to use the Astronomicon (which is a choir of thousands of psykers directed by the God-Emperor who create a 'guiding light' of psychic power from Terra).
Most large ships have some sort of warp drive, basically only stuff that is small enough to dock within another vessel doesn't have a warp drive.



Levendus said:


> When the Chaos marines 'retreat to the warp' what do they do... are they in a dreamy state !? Or is it the same as the normal plains ?


 They usually retreat to a daemon world, which is a world from real space trapped within the Warp- again the Warp/Immaterium differs depending on the individual viewing it but it's rarely a pleasant place even for Chaos Space Marines.



Levendus said:


> What about the Dark Elder ? is their Black Fortress in the warp ? Could it be attacked by Elder or Chaos ?


Their largest city, Commorragh, dwells within the darkness of the Webway where Slaanesh's influence is lessened on their souls- in theory anyone could invade it if they had access to the webway and could find it. Usually though the only non dark eldar other than slaves to travel their are the Harlequin Eldar.



Levendus said:


> Thanks in advance for the responses


No problem dude, I'm here to help :wink:


----------



## Baron Spikey

-This thread has gotten rather popular, and the concept of asking questions to be answered and debated by the people with a bit more knowledge is appealing to me. 

Stickied, never more will there be a chance this thread is lost.

Baron Spikey


----------



## TRU3 CHAOS

I had a question about Chaos Furies. In the codex it states that basically if a follower of chaos couldn't pick between dieties he was stuck as a fury when he died. If this is so, would that essentially mean that you become like a free style immortal? Does being a lesser daemon make you immortal?


----------



## Baron Spikey

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> I had a question about Chaos Furies. In the codex it states that basically if a follower of chaos couldn't pick between dieties he was stuck as a fury when he died. If this is so, would that essentially mean that you become like a free style immortal? Does being a lesser daemon make you immortal?


Your certainly immune to the ravages of time and mortals (i.e you can reform in the warp) but more powerful daemons bound to a God could conceivably consume your essence.


----------



## SnoopyChicken

How far can a space marine in full power armour fall?


----------



## NiceGuyEddy

SnoopyChicken said:


> How far can a space marine in full power armour fall?


Depends on the height of the bar stool.

Seriously though, your gonna have to be more specific.


----------



## Waaagh_Bong

what have the orks not looted yet? :read:


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Baron Spikey said:


> -This thread has gotten rather popular, and the concept of asking questions to be answered and debated by the people with a bit more knowledge is appealing to me.
> 
> Stickied, never more will there be a chance this thread is lost.
> 
> Baron Spikey


Why thank you! I've never had a post of mine Stickied before
ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED Sticky 25G


----------



## SnoopyChicken

NiceGuyEddy said:


> Depends on the height of the bar stool.
> 
> Seriously though, your gonna have to be more specific.


How far can a space marine fall in full power armour without damaging himself/his armour?


----------



## Baron Spikey

Lets say they were landing on concrete or similar.

Well anything that would just about likely outright kill a human can probably be survived by a Space Marine (at least if they intentionally jumped and landed correctly) in power armour, much higher than that though and the Armour is going to suffer some severe damage as it's servos go into overdrive trying to absorb the impact. 

I'd say that anything over 30-40m is a death sentence for a Marine even in Power Armour, of course as with the current day sometimes an individual will be just plain lucky and somehow survive.


----------



## gen.ahab

SnoopyChicken said:


> How far can a space marine in full power armour fall?


One: I would need to know the material he is hitting.
Two: I would need to know the amount of force a marines internal organs can take before they rupture( assuming it is different than your average human).
Three: I would need to know how much force would be taken by the armor.
Four: I would need a physicists to give me the answer because I don't think I would get it right.

If they are like MK VI armor(Spartan) it can survive a drop from low orbit. Although something tells me it ain't that good.


----------



## Baron Spikey

In Red Fury a Marine that was dropped over 100m above the ground on to Marble (or stone similar to Marble) essentially exploded when he hit the ground.


----------



## gen.ahab

Yeah, I suppose the tech isn't quite as good as the MKVI armor, but than again it isn't suppose to be. Although that it a different topic all together.


----------



## Serpion5

About a dozen metres according to DoW Tempest. Make of that what you will.

...


----------



## Serpion5

Waaagh_Bong said:


> what have the orks not looted yet? :read:


A dinosaur.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Waaagh_Bong said:


> what have the orks not looted yet? :read:


Themselves


----------



## Chompy Bits

Waaagh_Bong said:


> what have the orks not looted yet? :read:


Chuck Norris's secret stash of twinkies.


----------



## Tyrannus

I was just wondering how does the Ordo Hereticus work? I mean, how do they know which planets to check for heresy? Do they just patrol sectors and kinda act like inspectors? do they have spies everywhere and they notify them is there is some trouble afoot? or do they just come if the high command of a planet or system messages them that they have a problem?

Thanks for the help.


----------



## Serpion5

The Inquisition has many ways to detect taint. 

Spies abound on many worlds, certain organisations know of the hereticus and will refer to them when needed. 

Other than this, the inquisitors are always on the lookout for taint, and they and their staff can operate independently across entire sectors sometimes.

I would reccomend reading the eisenhorn omnibus for a good explanation on how the organisation works.


----------



## Tyrannus

Awesome :grin: Thanks for the reply.

I just always wondered, because I read bit of fluff on white dwarf where an inquisitor was greeted by the Governer-general or something when he first landed on the planet he was investigating, and i thought to myself "Surely this isn't how the Ordo hereticus should go about doing their business" because it seems, if you have enough influence in a planet and you follow chaos, you could just not contact the witch hunters :laugh:.

But I digress.

Thanks for the reply again, really clears things up for me :biggrin:.


----------



## SnoopyChicken

If slaanesh is a warp god and time is meaningless in the warp, does that mean slaanesh is present before the fall? Can s/he interfere with events before the fall? Does that mean the time stream of 40k would have been different before the fall?

This is making my head hurt


----------



## Serpion5

Before CotE does so, I will say the following:

Time is meaningless in the warp. Slaanesh has always existed, yet never existed at the same time. 

Essentially, there are two viewpoints. From the warp, if such a thing can be comprehended, Slaanesh has always existed in one form or another.

Yet in the materium, where chronological order matters, there was indeed a time where Slaanesh did not exist, and there were only three gods of Chaos. Such times are naught but distant memories now, however...


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Thanks _Serpion_, but _Snoopy_ already acknowledged that. 



SnoopyChicken said:


> Can s/he interfere with events before the fall?


Essentially we don't know, and were not suppossed to. The warp is incomprehensible and mind-shattering. Slaanesh existed before the Fall, was born at the point of the Fall, and has yet never existed. It's all a bit nuts.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Essentially we don't know, and were not suppossed to. The warp is incomprehensible and mind-shattering. Slaanesh existed before the Fall, was born at the point of the Fall, and has yet never existed. It's all a bit nuts.


And yet after he/she was born he/she had also always been there. Like COTE, it's quite insane. Makes the tv show _Lost_ look perfectly straight-forward and sensible.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> Before CotE does so, I will say the following:
> 
> Time is meaningless in the warp. Slaanesh has always existed, yet never existed at the same time.
> 
> Essentially, there are two viewpoints. From the warp, if such a thing can be comprehended, Slaanesh has always existed in one form or another.
> 
> Yet in the materium, where chronological order matters, there was indeed a time where Slaanesh did not exist, and there were only three gods of Chaos. Such times are naught but distant memories now, however...


I too think that Slaanesh has been ever-present because the gods are manifestations of human emotion in a radical extreme. Good job of explaining it too.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Do you think that the races/armies of the Warhammer 40K Universe are balanced out well? Do you think that some are more powerfull that others in numbers or might?

I think that Chaos is portrayed as too much of a threat. Yes Chaos itself has always been a primordial threat but if you think about it, the Imperium GREATLY outnumbers Chaos.


----------



## gen.ahab

5th Ed are all close close enough that the difference is irrelevant.(game)

They are all as they should be.(fluff)


----------



## SnoopyChicken

Do machine spirits exist? Im guessing not but in a universe with the immaterium Im not sure.
Just how much sentience does a servitor retain? I thought they where just organic machines but in the novel Im currently reading (deus encarmine) one whimpers as its intestines spill out(during a word-bearer ritual)


----------



## Androxine Vortex

SnoopyChicken said:


> Just how much sentience does a servitor retain? I thought they where just organic machines but in the novel Im currently reading (deus encarmine) one whimpers as its intestines spill out(during a word-bearer ritual)


You have to remember that just because an author says something, it dosen't mean that it is 100% correct. The way I see it was that there was a ritual going on and to add effect and importance (so to speak) the author added in that detail to"enhance" what was going on.

As for your machine spirit question, I don't know. There is definetly power there but I can't describe what form it is in (in a sense)
(For my own Chapter I'm maiking, they are Extremly prejudice against religion and that sort and so think that the Mechanicum's Omnisiah is a daemon-god in disguise)


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I want my Chapter of SM to be descendants of the Iron Hands and someone posted this before about their geneseed...

Iron Hands - Possess a fanatic hatred of weakness/fear of the organic form, which is believed to be inherited genetically. Causes marines to gradually replace their bodies with bionic enhancements.

How "powerfull" is this defect when given to successor Chapters?
And it just seems very queer that this defect makes you specifically replace your flesh with bionics. I can understand that it is because of the loathing of flesh but could I get a more in-depth description.

If you let it continue on would you develope psychological and deppressive personality?


----------



## Serpion5

Chompy Bits said:


> And yet after he/she was born he/she had also always been there. Like COTE, it's quite insane. Makes the tv show _Lost_ look perfectly straight-forward and sensible.


_Lost_ made perfect sense if you stuck with it from the beginning. And were a genius. 



SnoopyChicken said:


> Do machine spirits exist? Im guessing not but in a universe with the immaterium Im not sure.
> Just how much sentience does a servitor retain? I thought they where just organic machines but in the novel Im currently reading (deus encarmine) one whimpers as its intestines spill out(during a word-bearer ritual)


Machine spirits are essentially a machine`s automatic functions. Such as a Land Raider`s weapons being able to automatically target an enemy unit. The AdMech reveres the machine spirit as what makes the machine work, rather than the actual scientific principles involved. 

_We offer promethium, and the benevolent machine spirit will empower this vehicle to move._

Basically, they`re dipshits. As for the servitor, all semblance of personality is typically stripped from a person`s mind when they become a servitor. However, the powers of Chaos instill a primordial fear and loathing in those who do not embrace it, so it is theoretically possible that even a servitor might feel unease in such a situation. 



Androxine Vortex said:


> I want my Chapter of SM to be descendants of the Iron Hands and someone posted this before about their geneseed...
> 
> Iron Hands - Possess a fanatic hatred of weakness/fear of the organic form, which is believed to be inherited genetically. Causes marines to gradually replace their bodies with bionic enhancements.
> 
> How "powerfull" is this defect when given to successor Chapters?
> And it just seems very queer that this defect makes you specifically replace your flesh with bionics. I can understand that it is because of the loathing of flesh but could I get a more in-depth description.
> 
> If you let it continue on would you develope psychological and deppressive personality?


I believe the Iron Hands loathing of flesh to be a result of their upbringing within the chapter. As they undergo the hypnotherapy and psycho-conditioning to become an astartes, they probably pick up on the preference for bionics which they learn from their elders, stretching back to Ferrus himself.

My thoughts on that, anyway. 


ps. CotE, you`re welcome. :drinks:


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> _Lost_
> 
> 
> I believe the Iron Hands loathing of flesh to be a result of their upbringing within the chapter. As they undergo the hypnotherapy and psycho-conditioning to become an astartes, they probably pick up on the preference for bionics which they learn from their elders, stretching back to Ferrus himself.
> 
> My thoughts on that, anyway.


So you are saying that they really have no defect?


----------



## Serpion5

Space marines are like sheep. If their primarch, did it, they`d all do it.

UM all follow the codex to the letter in all matters because Big Blue wrote it.

RG are all ninjas, like Corax.

SW are all shaggy drunk brawlers, just like Russ. This is _besides_ the canis helix.


So yes, I believe the IH do not truly have a genetic defect. It`s all in their heads.


----------



## Quozzo

Why are there no Techmarines in terminator armour?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Serpion5 said:


> (I am blatantly attempting to overthrow the fluff forums, so that title would be perfect.) :biggrin:





Serpion5 said:


> ps. CotE, you`re welcome. :drinks:


We are always watching... we have our eye on you. :spiteful:



Androxine Vortex said:


> Do you think that the races/armies of the Warhammer 40K Universe are balanced out well? Do you think that some are more powerfull that others in numbers or might?
> 
> I think that Chaos is portrayed as too much of a threat. Yes Chaos itself has always been a primordial threat but if you think about it, the Imperium GREATLY outnumbers Chaos.


It's been said many times, but i'll say it again. The greatest threat Chaos poses is not in it's mortal Legions, or even in it's infinite hordes of daemons. It's in its nature to corrupt. Every single man is a potential heretic due to it's insidious nature, and it initially only takes a single man to eventually overturn a world...

You think Chaos is portrayed as too much of a threat? It's the single greatest threat to the Imperium of Man, it's the reason why the Emperor failed and now sits on the Golden Throne, it's the cause of the Imperium's greatest woes, and it can never be destroyed. It will be the death of the Imperium.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Serpion5 said:


> _Lost_ made perfect sense if you stuck with it from the beginning. And were a genius.


Yeah, I kinda got fed-up with _Lost_ so I stopped watching. I mean, every time the show got boring they just had some random new character parachute in or arrive on a boat or burst out of a tree.

Actually, now that I think of it, does anybody else think that the M'Kar fluff in the 5th Tyranid codex is pretty shitty? Carnifexes fighting Bloodthirsters are bad enough but Zoanthropes fighting Lords of Change? Seriously? Maybe I'm just being full of shit but I really think they're under-representing the chaos forces.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Is Chaos sort of dependant on humans for our emotion and ability to become corrupted? For example, they only want to destroy the Imperium but not all human beings?

And why is Chaos SO fixated on humans? Why not go after other races as much as they do with us?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> Is Chaos sort of dependant on humans for our emotion and ability to become corrupted?


We assume that they are dependant on humanity to an extent, and on mortals as a whole entirely. But that is assuming that they have not reached a point of self sufficiency.

As long as a single mortal exists who is capable of feeling any shade of emotion that represents the Four then they will exist.

Of course though, you could always throw in the age-old argument regarding the warp. The Chaos Gods are eternal within the warp, they exist in the past, present and future (although such concepts probably don't exist within it's boundaries) simultaneously, if all life in the galaxy was wiped out in an instant, the Four would plausably still exist in some incomprehensible form.



Androxine Vortex said:


> For example, they only want to destroy the Imperium but not all human beings?


Who said they want to destroy the Imperium? They wanted to incapacitate the Emperor who was a threat to them and challenged the 'eternal flow of emotion across aeons' thus they removed said threat via the wars of the Horus Heresy. It's never been noted that they wish to see the Imperium destroyed and I can't think of any real reason why they would.



Androxine Vortex said:


> And why is Chaos SO fixated on humans? Why not go after other races as much as they do with us?


Several reasons currently. Because humanity is weak and easily corrupted, their only chance of true resistance has already failed, they are probably the most numerous mortal race that has potential in Chaos (Orks and Tyranids don't for example), they are a psychic race with a significant imprint on the warp - which is also slowly growing as humanity evolves closer to it's psychic potential, they are one of - if not the most dominant race in the galaxy currently, Et cetera.

But Chaos is still very interested in other races and species, the Eldar for example take top priority for Slaanesh and her daemons.


----------



## Serpion5

Quozzo said:


> Why are there no Techmarines in terminator armour?


That`s techno heresy! :laugh: But seriously, it could be that there is no practical way to fit a servo harness to termi armour, or more likely (I think) it could have something to do with the techmarine`s role on the battlefield. It can be difficult to move, and exact repairs for instance, if you are wearing such a cumbersome suit. My thoughts. 



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> We are always watching... we have our eye on you. :spiteful:


So... You`re following me too? 



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> It's been said many times, but i'll say it again. The greatest threat Chaos poses is not in it's mortal Legions, or even in it's infinite hordes of daemons. It's in its nature to corrupt. Every single man is a potential heretic due to it's insidious nature, and it initially only takes a single man to eventually overturn a world...
> 
> You think Chaos is portrayed as too much of a threat? It's the single greatest threat to the Imperium of Man, it's the reason why the Emperor failed and now sits on the Golden Throne, it's the cause of the Imperium's greatest woes, and it can never be destroyed. It will be the death of the Imperium.


You sound like a Chaos fanboy. :wink: Are you aware of the full extent of the c`tan`s plan for dominion? 



Chompy Bits said:


> Actually, now that I think of it, does anybody else think that the M'Kar fluff in the 5th Tyranid codex is pretty shitty? Carnifexes fighting Bloodthirsters are bad enough but Zoanthropes fighting Lords of Change? Seriously? Maybe I'm just being full of shit but I really think they're under-representing the chaos forces.


Keep in mind that neither force can be accurately translated from fluff to game, for reasons of keeping it balanced. Bloodthirsters are described as being the greatest of warriors, but remember that a carnifex is a living engine of destruction. Game stats mean little in a story based on fluff.

The same can be said for zoanthropes and Lords of Change. Seriously, LoC`s may be masters of sorcery, but thropies are the uberest of the Hive Mind`s psyker organisms.

In any case, it did not actually mention who won in these duels. Use your imagination. 



Androxine Vortex said:


> Is Chaos sort of dependant on humans for our emotion and ability to become corrupted? For example, they only want to destroy the Imperium but not all human beings?
> 
> And why is Chaos SO fixated on humans? Why not go after other races as much as they do with us?


Humanity is the greatest tool for, or the greatest weapon against, the forces of Chaos.

If you haven`t yet, I recommend reading Legion for some light shed on this subject. In my opinion, one of the best books in the Heresy series. :victory:


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Serpion5 said:


> Are you aware of the full extent of the c`tan`s plan for dominion?


That was discussed to death in the C'tan versus Chaos thread, long story short I think there is a much stronger case for suggesting Chaos being a much greater threat to the status quo of humanity/the Imperium than the C'tan, at least currently anyway.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Serpion5 said:


> Keep in mind that neither force can be accurately translated from fluff to game, for reasons of keeping it balanced. Bloodthirsters are described as being the greatest of warriors, but remember that a carnifex is a living engine of destruction. Game stats mean little in a story based on fluff.
> 
> The same can be said for zoanthropes and Lords of Change. Seriously, LoC`s may be masters of sorcery, but thropies are the uberest of the Hive Mind`s psyker organisms.
> 
> In any case, it did not actually mention who won in these duels. Use your imagination.


Yeah, but I'm more complaining in general. The power of Bloodthirsters are said "to only be matched by the primarchs of old" though I can think of quite a few incidents where they get whipped by non-primarch beings. Also, Lords of Change are said to be so powerful that they can only really be defeated if it's a trick of Tzeentch. Then Tzeentch must be the Ashton Kutcher of Chaos, just punking daemons left, right and centre.

On another topic, I've got a couple of question about the Eldar:
How old are they as a race?
Also, I've heard that they used to be immortal and only started aging after the Fall and Slaanesh started snacking on their souls. Is this true or just a fan theory?
Lastly, when did they take over as the main users of the Webway?


----------



## Serpion5

Eldar were created after the fall of the necrontyr as a weapon against the necrons. At least 60-70 million years ago, but more likely a lot earlier.

I am not aware of any eldar ever being immortal other than th dark eldar, and that comes at a price.

The eldar inherited the webway from the Old Ones after their civilisation collapsed.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Serpion5 said:


> Eldar were created after the fall of the necrontyr as a weapon against the necrons. At least 60-70 million years ago, but more likely a lot earlier.
> 
> I am not aware of any eldar ever being immortal other than th dark eldar, and that comes at a price.
> 
> The eldar inherited the webway from the Old Ones after their civilisation collapsed.


Thanks for the answers. Much appreciated.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Serpion5 said:


> Eldar were created after the fall of the necrontyr as a weapon against the necrons. At least 60-70 million years ago, but more likely a lot earlier.
> 
> The eldar inherited the webway from the Old Ones after their civilisation collapsed.


Specifically the Eldar were created after the Old Ones grew desperate in the War in Heaven, as a chance to fully utilise the power of the warp against the C'tan. Essentially it goes:



Necrontyr discover and contact the C'tan Nightbringer, ultimately leading to the C'tan's immense consciousness being compressed into Necrodermis shells, and the rise of the Necrons.


This tips the balance of the War in Heaven firmly to the advantage of the C'tan/Necrons. The Old Ones are sent reeling.


The Old Ones spawn races and species with an ever greater connection to the warp (one such race being the Eldar) in an attempt to combat the C'tan (who by this point have turned on each other). The C'tan cannot match the warp-magicks of the lesser races are sent reeling.


The lesser races have an unintended effect on the warp, which grows more turbulent - the Enslaver Plague is unleashed.


The Old Ones in a last ditch attempt to save their civilisation create warrior-races designed to protect their last strongholds (the Orks being one such race), but it is too little too late, and the Old Ones fall from grace.

But back to the Eldar, although this was ~60,000,000 years ago, the Eldar never reached the peak of their civilisation until just over 1,000,000 years ago. Makes you wonder what the hell they were doing for 59,000,000 years? Perhaps the Fall of the Old Ones drastically effected their psyche - or them in someway.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> But back to the Eldar, although this was ~60,000,000 years ago, the Eldar never reached the peak of their civilisation until just over 1,000,000 years ago. Makes you wonder what the hell they were doing for 59,000,000 years? Perhaps the Fall of the Old Ones drastically effected their psyche - or them in someway.


It's obvious what the Eldar were doing in the 59,000,000 year gap between the fall of the Old Ones and the peak of Eldar society. All of them were standing in front of mirrors admiring themselves and going "man, we're awesome" and simply lost track of time.

BTW, thanks for the extra info.


----------



## Baron Spikey

I'll add a bit more, the Eldar were able to reincarnate up until the Warp became turbulent and the Nightbringer left it's mark on every race's soul/psyche (excepting the Orks) with a fear of death, closing off reincarnation to the children of Isha.

We don't really have a time frame for the War in heaven but it must have been going on for millions of years considering how ancient the Old Ones and Necrontyr races were.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Baron Spikey said:


> I'll add a bit more, the Eldar were able to reincarnate up until the Warp became turbulent and the Nightbringer left it's mark on every race's soul/psyche (excepting the Orks) with a fear of death, closing off reincarnation to the children of Isha.


Wow, I never knew that they had the ability to reincarnate before. Dude, really, how the hell do you know so much? I'm really jealous.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Because all the time other people put into other parts of the hobby I put into reading the fluff, getting my hands on every background book and WD article that GW produces (for both 40k and WHFB).


----------



## Chompy Bits

Baron Spikey said:


> Because all the time other people put into other parts of the hobby I put into reading the fluff, getting my hands on every background book and WD article that GW produces (for both 40k and WHFB).


I wish I could do that. Sadly for me, WH40k & WHFB isn't really big in SA so it's a real bitch trying to get any shit here (not to mention REALLY fucking expensive). Whenever I wanna get books etc, I end up having to order them online and have to wait weeks for them to arrive (which still ends up being REALLY fucking expensive).


----------



## SnoopyChicken

Hmmm, Im a bit hesitant to ask this question as I dont want to get flamed.

Im sure we all know the theory that Sigmar was one of the lost primarchs, and Im well aware of the fact that GW categorically denies this. But what I want to know is: from an in universe perspective is their any fluff that makes this theory impossible? Either 40k or FB fluff


----------



## Baron Spikey

Yes, disregarding anything GW have officially stated, the _Heldenhammer_ trilogy from the _Time of Legends_ series goes into great depth regarding Sigmar.

He has a biological father and mother, he is neither bigger or stronger than most of the warriors in his tribe, it's his ambition and drive that mark him apart from his fellows rather than any physical/intellectual superiority.


----------



## SnoopyChicken

Baron Spikey said:


> Yes, disregarding anything GW have officially stated, the _Heldenhammer_ trilogy from the _Time of Legends_ series goes into great depth regarding Sigmar.
> 
> He has a biological father and mother, he is neither bigger or stronger than most of the warriors in his tribe, it's his ambition and drive that mark him apart from his fellows rather than any physical/intellectual superiority.


Wow will have to check it out. "Time of legends" is that Warhammer fantasys answer to the horus heresy novels?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

SnoopyChicken said:


> Wow will have to check it out. "Time of legends" is that Warhammer fantasys answer to the horus heresy novels?


Essentially. Currently there are three trilogies in the _Times of Legends_ series; Nagash, Sigmar and the Sundering.


----------



## gen.ahab

Heldenhammer is one of the best BL books I have ever read, but it reads like a match of SWAT- fuck load of head shots.


----------



## Lt. James O'neil

Is it possible for the emperors abilities to b obtained by another man?


----------



## aboytervigon

nope someone if empowered by the dark gods could gain similar abilitys but only the emperor will ever have his powers.


----------



## Annihilus

*depleted deuterium*



chromedog said:


> Deuterium being one of the heavier (and radioactive) isotopes of Hydrogen.
> Commonly refined from seawater.
> 
> One of the more ridiculous bits of 40k fluff.


You're right someone didn't do their homework on that one.


----------



## Annihilus

*Plasma*



TheSpore said:


> if slaanesh is the god of sex why is it that tzeench has a thousand sons? (JK)
> What in the hell is plasma actually?


Plasma is ionized gas and as such responds to magnetic influences. Commonly referred to as fourth state of matter.. Hope that helps


----------



## Baron Spikey

Promethium is a highly radioactive substance that is a by-product of the fission of uranium fuel- yet in 40k it's the equivalent of highly flammable petrol in it's unrefined state.


----------



## Annihilus

*power packs*



VanitusMalus said:


> Probably the same pictures.
> 
> Ok I have a question and it's concerning the power pack of Space Marines. So if an opponent were to disable the pack for any reason would the Space Marine armoured suit shut thus not allowing him to move or anything? I guess then all the enemy would have to do is get a really big rock.


The power pack of the SM is pretty much a nuclear generator/battery. The most likely way it would be disabled would be a breach in it's structural integrity, causing what amounts to a "dirty bomb" (radioactive material released without fusion/fission being achieved) going off. If the power pack was disabled in a way that didn't cause this, possibly a strike to cables attached to armor proper, the marine would still be able to move but would be severely hindered(terminator armor would most likey be a standing sacophagus)


----------



## Annihilus

Waaagh_Bong said:


> what have the orks not looted yet? :read:


AWESOME!.....................................................................lol said message to short



Chompy Bits said:


> Wow, I never knew that they had the ability to reincarnate before. Dude, really, how the hell do you know so much? I'm really jealous.


 certain humans, ie. shamans and such were able to reincarnate also until the warp started becoming turbulent. This is the reason they performed the ceremony and ritual suicide that created the Emperor.


----------



## Baron Spikey

It wasn't at the same time as the Eldar lost the ability to reincarnate- humans hadn't even evolved when that happened, hell our ancestors were still scurrying around trying to keep from being eaten whilst the Dinosaurs stalked the earth.


----------



## Annihilus

*Inquisitor methods*



Tyrannus said:


> I was just wondering how does the Ordo Hereticus work? I mean, how do they know which planets to check for heresy? Do they just patrol sectors and kinda act like inspectors? do they have spies everywhere and they notify them is there is some trouble afoot? or do they just come if the high command of a planet or system messages them that they have a problem?
> 
> Thanks for the help.


In regards to this, good going you've mentioned some of the standard methods used by them. Most Inquisitors have spy networks in place for the areas they watch, they also recieve information from other Inquisitors, planetary governors, and various government agencies. If there is a way to gather intelligence , chances are they use it. Don't forget the purge them all just to be safe method.


----------



## Annihilus

*reincarnation*



Baron Spikey said:


> It wasn't at the same time as the Eldar lost the ability to reincarnate- humans hadn't even evolved when that happened, hell our ancestors were still scurrying around trying to keep from being eaten whilst the Dinosaurs stalked the earth.


If you get more information on the timeline involved please share. I have wondered myself about exact periods when the Eldar stopped reincarnating in relation to the humans similar problems with it.


----------



## gen.ahab

Annihilus,
Try not to double post.


----------



## Serpion5

Baron Spikey said:


> It wasn't at the same time as the Eldar lost the ability to reincarnate- humans hadn't even evolved when that happened, hell our ancestors were still scurrying around trying to keep from being eaten whilst the Dinosaurs stalked the earth.


I was under the impression that the eldar lost the ability when Slaanesh was born, she being eternally thirsty for their soul juice and whatnot. Unless you have a source that says otherwise? Am I mistaken? 



Annihilus said:


> If you get more information on the timeline involved please share. I have wondered myself about exact periods when the Eldar stopped reincarnating in relation to the humans similar problems with it.


Given that only human psykers (and only strong ones at that) had this ability in the first place, you can assume it happened when psykers vanished from the general gene pool. Around 8000bc if I understand that fluff correctly.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Does anybody know how big the Deathwatch chapter is? I know the Grey Knights are 3000 strong so I'm assuming that the Deathwatch, as another ordo militant, probably also doesn't adhere to codex standards.


----------



## Quozzo

The Deathwatch isnt a chapter, the marines are recruited from different chapters and put together in an ad-hoc fashion when and where required by an Inquisitor. The killteam is disbanded when the mission is over and then the marines go back to their respective chapter.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deathwatch


----------



## Baron Spikey

Chompy Bits said:


> Does anybody know how big the Deathwatch chapter is? I know the Grey Knights are 3000 strong so I'm assuming that the Deathwatch, as another ordo militant, probably also doesn't adhere to codex standards.


Which source says the Grey Knights are 3,000 strong, not that i'm doubting you (yet) I'd just like to stick it in my reference notebook...that I've just decided to make


----------



## OrkByTheGraceOfGork

Baron Spikey said:


> Which source says the Grey Knights are 3,000 strong, not that i'm doubting you (yet) I'd just like to stick it in my reference notebook...that I've just decided to make


He might have quoted that number from Lexicanum. k:


----------



## Baron Spikey

Lexicanum states a lot of sources for it's Grey Knights entry but doesn't say where it got the ~3,000 number from, hmm.


----------



## mcmuffin

well i have gotten back to writing a bit of fluff and i just need to know, does a daemon prince stay in the material world, (like on a ship or something), or does it go back to the Warp in between battles
would a daemon prince be able to take on 50 grey knights and a Brother Captain.

As you can probably tell i am writing about a DP


----------



## Baron Spikey

Daemon Princes have all the same vulnerabilities as true daemons, they can only remain strong in the material world if they find some way to gain power (sacrifices, rifts etc).

So yes a daemon prince may be able to stay in real space but it would be vastly weakened over time.

Daemon Prince power levels differ from individual to individual- Voldorius wouldn't have been able to defeat so many Grey Knights, Angron defeated roughly 80 with the help of his 12 strong Bloodthirster bodyguard. Doombreed at his peak could wipe out that many Grey Knights without being slain.
[The paragraph above is my opinion, it's not got a direct quote to support it]


----------



## mcmuffin

so the more he kills, the more powerful he would become. if he was on his battleship, could he have thousands of prisoners slaughtered to maintain his power? can a DP be put in stasis if he is tied down to the material world with special chains and the like? all of this information would be greatly helpful.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Baron Spikey said:


> Which source says the Grey Knights are 3,000 strong, not that i'm doubting you (yet) I'd just like to stick it in my reference notebook...that I've just decided to make


Actually, I got the info from a friend and he seemed quite confident so I didn't question it (yeah, I know that was stupid). But now that you mentioned it, I tried finding a reference for it and couldn't find any (other than Lex but I don't really consider that trustworthy) so now I'm questioning whether it's the truth myself. Also, I haven't been able to get in contact with the guy again co'z he seems to be avoiding me, though it's probably because he still has a shit load of my 40k books (including my beloved orks codex) and hasn't given any of them back yet.


----------



## Serpion5

Chompy Bits said:


> Does anybody know how big the Deathwatch chapter is? I know the Grey Knights are 3000 strong so I'm assuming that the Deathwatch, as another ordo militant, probably also doesn't adhere to codex standards.


Deathwatch do not have a standard chapter size...



Quozzo said:


> The Deathwatch isnt a chapter, the marines are recruited from different chapters and put together in an ad-hoc fashion when and where required by an Inquisitor. The killteam is disbanded when the mission is over and then the marines go back to their respective chapter.


...though they do maintain a standing presence which is on rotation every several years.



mcmuffin said:


> well i have gotten back to writing a bit of fluff and i just need to know, does a daemon prince stay in the material world, (like on a ship or something), or does it go back to the Warp in between battles
> would a daemon prince be able to take on 50 grey knights and a Brother Captain.
> 
> As you can probably tell i am writing about a DP


Like Baron said, he has the same limitations and powers that a daemon would. 

M`kar the reborn was able to maintain a presence by possessing a dreadnought, others may possess mortals or be bound in some way. Though this is rare for a daemon of such power, unless he is bested by a more powerful foe. (Like Calgar) 



mcmuffin said:


> so the more he kills, the more powerful he would become. if he was on his battleship, could he have thousands of prisoners slaughtered to maintain his power? can a DP be put in stasis if he is tied down to the material world with special chains and the like? all of this information would be greatly helpful.


Runes and wards can be used to bind daemons. I`m pretty sure that they would still disappaite eventually. 

In Eisenhorn, a daemon is imprisoned within a host who has such wards painted all over his skin. This would theoretically work indefinitely. 



Chompy Bits said:


> Actually, I got the info from a friend and he seemed quite confident so I didn't question it (yeah, I know that was stupid). But now that you mentioned it, I tried finding a reference for it and couldn't find any (other than Lex but I don't really consider that trustworthy) so now I'm questioning whether it's the truth myself. Also, I haven't been able to get in contact with the guy again co'z he seems to be avoiding me, though it's probably because he still has a shit load of my 40k books (including my beloved orks codex) and hasn't given any of them back yet.


It may be located in one of the Grey Knight novels. Don`t recall it in the first and haven`t read the others.

Tell your friend he`s a tightass and get your stuff back, man. Leave it too long and you`ll lose it.


----------



## Quozzo

Quozzo said:


> The Deathwatch isnt a chapter, the marines are recruited from different chapters and put together in an ad-hoc fashion when and where required by an Inquisitor. The killteam is disbanded when the mission is over and then the marines go back to their respective chapter.
> 
> 
> 
> Serpion5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...though they do maintain a standing presence which is on rotation every several years.
Click to expand...

Do you mean they return to the deathwatch? If so i did not know that. interesting...




mcmuffin said:


> would a daemon prince be able to take on 50 grey knights and a Brother Captain.


In the novel Grey Knights by Ben Counter, A Daemon Prince accompanied by thousands of greater and lesser daemons all located on a planet managed to kill 250 Grey Knights including 3 Grand Masters, 1 Brother Captain (probably more) and several Justicars. If your writting a novel or short story you could say that the DP also had a retinue of greater/lesser daemons but dont give any figures.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Quozzo said:


> Do you mean they return to the deathwatch? If so i did not know that. interesting...


No, they return to their parent Chapters- as in the Deathwatch Marine who originally came from the Space Wolves will return to the Space Wolves etc





Quozzo said:


> In the novel Grey Knights by Ben Counter, A Daemon Prince accompanied by thousands of greater and lesser daemons all located on a planet managed to kill 250 Grey Knights including 3 Grand Masters, 1 Brother Captain (probably more) and several Justicars. If your writting a novel or short story you could say that the DP also had a retinue of greater/lesser daemons but dont give any figures.


That sounds like a really good idea, as long as you remember that only Doombreed or a Daemon Prince approaching his power could potentially take down so many Grey Knights alone (hint- Angron is no where near Doombreed's power level).


----------



## mcmuffin

ok, thanks for the assist. the general jist is that the DP is imprisoned in stasis on Mimas by the Ordo malleus. he is freed and escapes the GK


----------



## Quozzo

I'm not sure if the GK takes prisoners, in my opinion the DP would be slain outright and recored in the Codicium Aeternum. But if they were doing the norm then it wouldn't be worth writting a story about it, now would it >.<


----------



## Serpion5

He said Ordo Malleus captured it. Not GK. That`s feasible, if the GK were unaware of it and were then forced to hunt it down. Remember that the GK and OM are two seperate organisations, technically. They work so closely together because they have the same goal.


----------



## X FiftY 1ne

I've read quite a bit of fluff and still cannot pin down how the hierarchical structure of the legions pre-heresy/heresy were designed; also their legion strength in numbers. I've read that legion strength was considered between 10,000-20,000 men strong. Other sources such as the new HH books have stated certain legions were at 100,000 men strong. Most notably the Word Bearers, only the Ultramarines numbered more then them at the time. Are we just to assume each legion had completely different strength in numbers? Where the Word Bears had 100,000 marines and the Ultra's more, The Emperor's Children may of had only 10,000. 

What I assume the structure follows is:

1.Primarch
2.1st Company Captain 
3.2nd Company Captain through ...(how many companies exist in a legion)?
4.Veteran Sergeant
5.Brother-Sergeant
6.Battle-Brother

I'm not certain where Chaplains, Librarians, Champions, Lord Commanders, and Chapter Masters stand. I know Chaplains were assigned 1 per company alongside the Captain, but are they second is command? Or did that fall on to the Lead Squad Sergeant? Chapter Masters I'm just totally confused with when it comes to the Heresy. Some Legions used them such as the Dark Angels and Word Bearers, but did they hold any rank due to martial prowess, or were they just there to keep things organized? I believe the Chapter Master of the Dark Angels at that time was "Hadariel", (Correct me if I'm wrong, been a while since I've read the DA books) and he was still human. Knowing this means he most certainly could not best any Astartes in Combat.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Legion organisation varied from Legion to Legion, for example some Legions maintained internal chapter organisations whilst others didn't.

As for Legion sizes, it depends what source you take - some authors use smaller average Legion sizes, but most now seem to use the larger average sizes.

The _Collected Visions_ makes reference to the average Legion size being ~100,000 Astartes strong, with the Ultramarines standing at by far the largest at ~250,000. I would however say it's more likely the average Legion size being anywhere from 50,000 to 99,999 - considering the Word Bearers stood at 100,000 strong and were the second largest legion. 

Another example is the Raven Guard who were said to number around 80,000.

There were however notable examples of tiny Legions, them being the Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons - mainly due to genetic defects or a catastrophic accident. The Emperor's Children numbering a few thousand, around 10,000 if memory serves. And the Thousand Sons ultimately numbering little more than 1,000.


----------



## Catpain Rich

A thousand? the same as a chapter? surely not


----------



## Baron Spikey

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> There were however notable examples of tiny Legions, them being the Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons - mainly due to genetic defects or a catastrophic accident. The Emperor's Children numbering a few thousand, around 10,000 if memory serves. And the Thousand Sons numbering little more than 1,000.


The Thousand Sons were founded 1,000 strong and after the burning of Prospero only roughly 1,000 were left but in the mean time they peaked at 12,000 Astartes.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Baron Spikey said:


> The Thousand Sons were founded 1,000 strong


I'm pretty sure the Sons were a couple thousand strong at their founding but that only roughly a thousand were left by the time Magnus found the 'cure' for their fleshchange. Well, at least that's how Ahriman tells it to that one psyker remembrancer in _A Thousand Sons_.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Baron Spikey said:


> The Thousand Sons were founded 1,000 strong and after the burning of Prospero only roughly 1,000 were left but in the mean time they peaked at 12,000 Astartes.


That's right, it seems too long since I read _A Thousand Sons_.


----------



## TheBellower

So the Legion was once again almost annihilated when Space Wolves blowed up Prospero and how many TSons there were when Ahriman casted the Rubric on the Planet of Sorcerers?


----------



## Baron Spikey

TheBellower said:


> So the Legion was once again almost annihilated when Space Wolves blowed up Prospero and how many TSons there were when Ahriman casted the Rubric on the Planet of Sorcerers?


ahem...


Baron Spikey said:


> The Thousand Sons were founded 1,000 strong and after the burning of Prospero only roughly 1,000 were left but in the mean time they peaked at 12,000 Astartes.




Obviously I like running my mouth (or the typing alternative) but I keep having to repeat every statement I make because people seemingly just don't read my posts, then ask the questions my posts have already answered.
This isn't a bash at you Bellower- you're hardly the first, or sadly the last, to do this. I'm just not a fan of having to repeat myself :wink:


----------



## ThatOtherGuy

Apparently some inquisitors have power armor. Is this different than what space marines and sisters of battle wear?

Also, if an eldar turns to chaos, could he be possessed and turned into something kinda like a possessed chaos space marine? Could he even become a demon prince?


----------



## Baron Spikey

ThatOtherGuy said:


> Apparently some inquisitors have power armor. Is this different than what space marines and sisters of battle wear?


Astartes Power Armour is entirely different to that worn by humans, such as Sisters of Battle and Inquisiitors- it's far bulkier.



ThatOtherGuy said:


> Also, if an eldar turns to chaos, could he be possessed and turned into something kinda like a possessed chaos space marine? Could he even become a demon prince?


Absolutely.


----------



## locustgate

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> That's right, it seems too long since I read _A Thousand Sons_.


As I understoob it the 1000 sons were at 1000 strong whent they were reunited with Magnus.

Is it possible for the IMP to put atleast part of a person's soul in one of the servoskulls?


----------



## Androxine Vortex

ThatOtherGuy said:


> Also, if an eldar turns to chaos, could he be possessed and turned into something kinda like a possessed chaos space marine? Could he even become a demon prince?


Have there been any instances where this has happened? And can Eldar only be associated with Slaanesh when dealing with Chaos?


----------



## Serpion5

locustgate said:


> Is it possible for the IMP to put atleast part of a person's soul in one of the servoskulls?


As far as I am aware, a servo skull works in a similar manner to a servitor, it simply performs a set task automatically and that is all.



Androxine Vortex said:


> Have there been any instances where this has happened? And can Eldar only be associated with Slaanesh when dealing with Chaos?


The prominent example of an eldar turning to Chaos would be the first striking scorpion exarch Ahra. He is the founder of the Dark Eldar incubi as I understand it, unless that has changed or unless I am mistaken. 

And I see no reason why an eldar could not serve Khorne if he really wanted to.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

This is a quote from Amphion and Zethus (Word Bearer Sorcerers)

With the thirty-seven keys of Tzeentch, we open the way for our brothers. With the thousand whispers of Slaanesh, we call to them. With the twelve plagues of Nurgle, we fell their enemies. And with the mighty axe of Khorne, we cut open the world for them.


What are the 37 keys?
What are the 1000 whispers?
What are the 12 plagues?

I think that for the Slaanesh part, it just means all the temptations he can whisper into your heart. And for the Nurgle, well, thats how many "special" plagues he has. Khorne's is self-explanatory.


----------



## Serpion5

Video game lore, mate.  

That was a cool cutscene, but like the rest of the game, I wouldn`t take it too seriously. 

I could guess, and have a crack at listing them, but but I think this is just banter that they made up for this scene. :dunno:


----------



## locustgate

Serpion5 said:


> As far as I am aware, a servo skull works in a similar manner to a servitor, it simply performs a set task automatically and that is all.


I know they usualy do, but I mean CAN they.


----------



## Serpion5

locustgate said:


> I know they usualy do, but I mean CAN they.


Sorry, let me try again. :biggrin:

A hollowed out skull with an antigrav generator and a small computer fitted inside.

...Doesn`t really sound like a soul catching device to me.

So... No.


----------



## TheBellower

Baron Spikey said:


> ahem...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously I like running my mouth (or the typing alternative) but I keep having to repeat every statement I make because people seemingly just don't read my posts, then ask the questions my posts have already answered.
> This isn't a bash at you Bellower- you're hardly the first, or sadly the last, to do this. I'm just not a fan of having to repeat myself :wink:


Yup. That post mostly repeated what u had told but did Ahriman cast the Rubric straight away when the Legion arrived to their Daemon World? (~1k< Rubric Marines sounds kind a lame but ironic


----------



## Chompy Bits

Does anybody have any detailed fluff on electro-priest? The only reference I have is in the first Soul Drinkers novel where a few of them are released into battle. Here they are shown as being able to release large amounts of electricity from their bodies, possess immense strength and are able to move fast enough that even astartes struggle to track their movements. Any additional info like their beliefs, recuitment, training etc. would be much appreciated.


----------



## mcmuffin

Baron Spikey said:


> The Thousand Sons were founded 1,000 strong and after the burning of Prospero only roughly 1,000 were left but in the mean time they peaked at 12,000 Astartes.


sorry to have to contradict you, oh knowledgable one P) but i have just finished A Thousand Sons and Spoiler Alert they were several thousand strong at their founding, but their were only one thousand left after magnus cured the flesh change. it is suggested that the emperor may have named them having forseen this happening.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> Video game lore, mate.
> 
> That was a cool cutscene, but like the rest of the game, I wouldn`t take it too seriously.
> 
> I could guess, and have a crack at listing them, but but I think this is just banter that they made up for this scene. :dunno:


I didnt know it was from a video game, I just found a list of Chaos Quotes :laugh:

I have two questions:
Are there any Chaos chapters out there that are just completly possesed? (because i wanted to make my own and i want to be somewhat original)

How does Chaos recruit? I don't think that Fabius has THAT many people.


----------



## Immortal Lord

Ive been reading:read: most if this forum but havent seen anything about necrons and (being a necron player myself) ive got a question?

what units do the necrons have in their arsenal (besides GW units and the forge world Tomb Stalker and pylon)?


----------



## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> I didnt know it was from a video game, I just found a list of Chaos Quotes :laugh:
> 
> I have two questions:
> Are there any Chaos chapters out there that are just completly possesed? (because i wanted to make my own and i want to be somewhat original)
> 
> How does Chaos recruit? I don't think that Fabius has THAT many people.


Various Legions and warbands of Chaos have developed their own recruiting methods over the years. 

A few examples I know of: 

The Alpha Legion simply recruits from any world they please, masquerading as loyalists if necessary.

The Iron Warriors use womb daemons to infuse captured children with geneseed. The new marines are born without skin and are then clothed with skin harvested from flayed prisoners.

Thousand Sons simply recruit new psykers. Lost rubrik marines are reinterred into their armour through a sorcerous ritual.

I can not give every Legion`s recruitment method, I`m not sure how extensively it is covered. But I`m sure a possessed warband is perfectly feasible. :so_happy:



Immortal Lord said:


> Ive been reading:read: most if this forum but havent seen anything about necrons and (being a necron player myself) ive got a question?
> 
> what units do the necrons have in their arsenal (besides GW units and the forge world Tomb Stalker and pylon)?


Haven`t seen any necron stuff? Keep an eye on me, you`ll find me raving about them and their awesomeness now and then. :laugh:

As for your question, necrons have plenty of units at their disposal. What you have in the codex and FW is pretty much a standard cover all specialisations list. But remember that only raiding parties have awakened thus far, so more complex units may be buried deeper in the tomb complexes yet to emerge. 

There`s nothing to stop you coming up with your own units and using counts as rules. 

eg: I have necrons on skyboards made out of Dirge Raiders from BFG carrying tomb king spears. I count them as wraiths. I have necron sniper teams, converted from warriors with extended barrels. They use the immortal rules.

In short, there is nothing else fluffwise, but you are free to use your imagination at this point.


ps: I just remembered a unit that appeared in the last soul drinkers book. Simply called the Harvester, it`s a nasty piece of work, I reccommend you check it out. :good:


----------



## Eerie

Hello. I`m new to this thing, and got a lot of questions about WH40K, but I`ll start with a few:

1. Are there any more-or-less hard numbers about the IoM? Like, population, number of planets, population of an average planet, number of spaceships (interstellar and not) and so on. I read about "more than a million worlds", but I`m not sure the source can be trusted. Or is this sort of information intentionally left vague?

2. How rare are Navigators? I understand that they are a very privileged class, and yet the IoM probably have millions of spaceships, so they can`t be very rare.

3. Are there always just one navigator per ship? What if she dies of acute warp tentaclitosis or otherwise incapacitated? Is there a policy of "no back-up"?

4. And speaking of back-ups, why are there only one Geller Field Device per ship? is it possible to install ten of them on a given ship, and let daemons try to break them all one by one?

5. How fast is the communication by astropaths? Is it real-time?

6. Do astropath have to go through the Binding Ritual in order to be able to communicate, or does it just makes them stronger?

7. When and how were the three original Chaos gods (Tzeentch, Khorne and Nurgle) created?

8. Were they interacting in some way with the old Eldar Gods, before Slaanesh ate them?

9. Speaking of which, what do we know about the Eldar Gods? Were they also, as the four, created from emotions?

10. Cegorach, the Laughing God - does he dwell in the Warp, or somewhere else (Webway, perhaps)?

11. Are the Illuminati still considered canon? And are they the only ones who can fight of a possessing daemon with their will power only? Or are there others who are able of the same feat?

Okay, more than a few questions. :blush: 
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Serpion5

Eerie said:


> Hello. I`m new to this thing, and got a lot of questions about WH40K, but I`ll start with a few:
> 
> 1. Are there any more-or-less hard numbers about the IoM? Like, population, number of planets, population of an average planet, number of spaceships (interstellar and not) and so on. I read about "more than a million worlds", but I`m not sure the source can be trusted. Or is this sort of information intentionally left vague?
> 
> A million worlds is what they say. Many worlds die, but more are brought into the fold, so the number is generally not reduced by much. It is accepted that the Imperium is losing worlds faster than it gains them. The population is huge. Consider Earth today has about six billion. In the IoM, that`s not really that big.
> 
> 2. How rare are Navigators? I understand that they are a very privileged class, and yet the IoM probably have millions of spaceships, so they can`t be very rare.
> 
> They are extremely rare, but given the population numbers mentioned above, they manage to go around.
> 
> 3. Are there always just one navigator per ship? What if she dies of acute warp tentaclitosis or otherwise incapacitated? Is there a policy of "no back-up"?
> 
> I have read several sources where I`m sure there was more than one Navigator. Specifics escape me, but I think there can be multiples. CotE or Baron might know more.
> 
> 4. And speaking of back-ups, why are there only one Geller Field Device per ship? is it possible to install ten of them on a given ship, and let daemons try to break them all one by one?
> 
> I`m pretty sure the gellar field has multiple emitters on the ship.
> 
> 5. How fast is the communication by astropaths? Is it real-time?
> 
> Not by a long shot. Messages between astropaths can be delayed by weeks, montha or even years, and can be difficult to decipher.
> 
> 6. Do astropath have to go through the Binding Ritual in order to be able to communicate, or does it just makes them stronger?
> 
> The binding ritual is designed to give them a measure of the Emperor`s strength. It allows them to attune to the astronomicon, but it also serves to offer them a measure of protection from the denizens of the warp.
> 
> 7. When and how were the three original Chaos gods (Tzeentch, Khorne and Nurgle) created?
> 
> During the wars with the necrons millions of years ago, the pain, strife and disorder was mirrored in the warp, becoming the Chaos gods. However, the Eldar gods held sway for a very long time, no doubt viewing them with the same contempt that the eldar viewed lesser beings.
> 
> 8. Were they interacting in some way with the old Eldar Gods, before Slaanesh ate them?
> 
> We don`t know for sure. When Slaanesh consumed the eldar gods, the Emperor began the crusade, resulting in the Imperium. Following the heresy, with an influx of worshippers ever since, the Chaos gods have grown immensely in power, feeding of humanity`s fear and adoration.
> 
> 9. Speaking of which, what do we know about the Eldar Gods? Were they also, as the four, created from emotions?
> 
> I would assume so. They were just far more... "Eldar" in aspect.
> 
> 10. Cegorach, the Laughing God - does he dwell in the Warp, or somewhere else (Webway, perhaps)?
> 
> He dwells in the webway, emerging periodically to prank the other gods and steal the souls of the Harlequins before Slaanesh consumes them.
> 
> 11. Are the Illuminati still considered canon? And are they the only ones who can fight of a possessing daemon with their will power only? Or are there others who are able of the same feat?
> 
> The Illuminati have not been mentioned in official canon for some time. Nothing has definitely removed them however. In short, I don`t know, so feel free to speculate. I tend towards the theory that they still exist, it`s more fun that way.
> 
> Okay, more than a few questions. :blush:
> Thanks in advance.


Not a problem sir. :good:


----------



## Androxine Vortex

@Serpion5
Thanks for the recruiting question I had but what about the other one?

Are there any known Chaos chapters that are completly possesed?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> Are there any known Chaos chapters that are completly possesed?


The _Beasts of Annihilation_ warband willingly give themselves over to daemonic possession - with most of their numbers (if not all) possessed in some form.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The _Beasts of Annihilation_ warband willingly give themselves over to daemonic possession - with most of their numbers (if not all) possessed in some form.


Hey thanks. I checked LEX but there really wasnt any info on them. Does anyone know anything else about them? (All i found out was their colors, thats it)


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> Hey thanks. I checked LEX but there really wasnt any info on them. Does anyone know anything else about them? (All i found out was their colors, thats it)


There is no more information that exists I'm afraid. They were only very briefly mentioned in _Codex: Chaos Space Marines_ (4th ed).


----------



## Baron Spikey

Eerie said:


> Hello. I`m new to this thing, and got a lot of questions about WH40K, but I`ll start with a few:
> 
> 1. Are there any more-or-less hard numbers about the IoM? Like, population, number of planets, population of an average planet, number of spaceships (interstellar and not) and so on. I read about "more than a million worlds", but I`m not sure the source can be trusted. Or is this sort of information intentionally left vague?
> As master Serpion said the rough estimate is a million worlds, whether all those worlds are habitable is unlikely.
> When you think about the Imperium's population you have to discard the concept of billions, the population runs into the hundreds of *trillions*.
> The Imperial Navy is incredibly large and powerful, we're talking thousands of warships.
> 2. How rare are Navigators? I understand that they are a very privileged class, and yet the IoM probably have millions of spaceships, so they can`t be very rare.
> Navigators are a privileged rank in Imperial society but there are millions of them all the same.
> 3. Are there always just one navigator per ship? What if she dies of acute warp tentaclitosis or otherwise incapacitated? Is there a policy of "no back-up"?
> Navigators generally have an apprentice on the military ships, especially ships of the line like cruisers, but some merchant/civilian ships might only have a single navigator.
> 4. And speaking of back-ups, why are there only one Geller Field Device per ship? is it possible to install ten of them on a given ship, and let daemons try to break them all one by one?
> There is only the single Gellar Field on each warp capable ship, it's constantly maintained and checked because if that fails then the ship is fucked.
> 5. How fast is the communication by astropaths? Is it real-time?
> It's much faster than light speed, usually, but it's not real time- its also not as predictable as say Vox communcation, images and emotions are sent instead of standard transcript style message.


I wont answer the rest, partly because I'm almost blind drunk and partly because I can't really think of anything to add to what Serpion said.


----------



## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> @Serpion5
> Thanks for the recruiting question I had but what about the other one?
> 
> Are there any known Chaos chapters that are completly possesed?


Yeah, sorry dude. CotE is your guy for Chaos stuff...



Baron Spikey said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> I wont answer the rest, partly because I'm almost blind drunk and partly because I can't really think of anything to add to what Serpion said.


And Baron`s yor guy for Imperium info, even when drunk.

Me, I`m more the alien guy. 

Congrats on the medals btw Baron! :clapping: I have my eye on that new rp one...


----------



## gen.ahab

They have a rocket puppy medal? Oh, fuck me, I want one. (probably not the best word choice, but fuck it.)


----------



## Eerie

More questions!

1. Which one is the least boring Space Marines Chapter? I know it is a matter of opinion, but would still like to hear it. It`s just that I came to the conclusion that while Space Marines are awesome as a fighting force, they are really boring as characters. Barely any personality in them.

2. Does IoM have an equivalent of personal computers and internet? Not interstellar, of course, but just local planetary internet.

3. Does IoM have any culture beyond the religious? Like music, movies, sports etc?

4. What is the point of Hive Worlds? Given the trouble of sustaining such population density on a given planet, why are they allowed to exist at all?

5. Does IoM have gender-mixed military units?

6. More widely, what is the statius of women in IoM? Are the sexes considered equal, or not?


----------



## Baron Spikey

Eerie said:


> 1. Which one is the least boring Space Marines Chapter? I know it is a matter of opinion, but would still like to hear it. It`s just that I came to the conclusion that while Space Marines are awesome as a fighting force, they are really boring as characters. Barely any personality in them.


Well I know a lot of people will say Space Wolves but really I just think most Space Marine characters and their respective chapters have been described by hack writers who seem stuck on doing 'Bolter Porn' rather than giving us fleshed out protagonists. 

Every Chapter is interesting for different reasons, Astartes might not be human but they have personalities- looks at Helsreach or Rynn's World for obvious examples of the various impulses and flaws that the Marines have. They're not cookie cutter personalities, yes their Chapter shapes them but at the end of the day they're still men with varying temperaments



Eerie said:


> 2. Does IoM have an equivalent of personal computers and internet? Not interstellar, of course, but just local planetary internet.


Yup a lot of worlds have personal computers and the equivalent of the internet- obviously it's highly vetted even on the most socially unoppressed world.



Eerie said:


> 3. Does IoM have any culture beyond the religious? Like music, movies, sports etc?


Of course, whilst the Church of the Emperor is a uniting religion it's grip on each world and the society inherent is of varying strength- as with most things Imperial the musical, sporting etc tastes and traditions can range from 21st century equivalent to something completely exotic and back again.



Eerie said:


> 4. What is the point of Hive Worlds? Given the trouble of sustaining such population density on a given planet, why are they allowed to exist at all?


Usually Hive Worlds are manufactory worlds, such as Armageddon which churns out arms for the Military at a frightening rate, so a large population is needed and in a Empire as widely spread as the Imperium having the occasional sector linchpin is a necessity.



Eerie said:


> 5. Does IoM have gender-mixed military units?


The Imperial Navy is the most gender-mixed organisation in the Imperium's military, with the Imperial Guard it's more likely that a regiment will be single-sexed though mixed-gender units still exist (see- Tanith 1st).



Eerie said:


> 6. More widely, what is the statius of women in IoM? Are the sexes considered equal, or not?


For such an oppressive tyrannical state the IoM is surprisingly enlightened on the whole when it comes to gender rights and equality, obviously it still differs from planet to planet but on the whole women have the same opportunites as men.


----------



## Eerie

What`s the best book to start WH40K with? I`m reading Gaunt`s Ghost now, as I heard that Dan Abnett is the best, and so far I`m not disappointed, but would still like to hear other opinions.


----------



## Serpion5

For Marines, go with the UM omnibus and the soul drinker series.

I would also reccommend the Eisenhorn and Ravenor Omnibuses.

Ciaphas Cain is good for a laugh, and the compilation books are a good read as well.


When you`re up to speed on the present, have a read of the Horus Heresy Series. Top stuff (mostly). :good:


----------



## forkmaster

I got some questions, first do the Dark Angels call their company commanders for Captains or just Masters as its stated in the codex?

Also, Im still curious about the chapters of the Word Bearers pre-heresy. How many companies were apart of a chapter, which companies were apart of it and how many sorted into them?


----------



## Serpion5

I believe they are called Company Masters, but I`m not a massive DA buff so can`t say for positive.

I think the preheresy chapters were much the same as the current chapters, roughly a thousand marines divided into ten or so companies of a hundred each.

I haven`t finished First Heretic yet, so I don`t know for sure, but the other legions seem to work like this. Some follow a different pattern, like the SW, and others did not need chapters at all, like the TS.


----------



## ytimk

POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR ANYONE WHO HASNT READ *"MECHANICUM"*



This is going to sound quite odd, but I am still curious about *who* actually took the special book (from Dalia Cythera after she became the guardian/watcher in the Noctis Labyrinth? If I remember right, she had two civilian friends and two knights (survivors of the fight with the Kaban machine) with her at the time - they were the last people she had contact with before she began her guardianship. 

It has always been something I have wanted to see explored more in the fiction, and is probably testament to how well written the book was and good it was to delve more into the genesis and secrets of the adeptus mechnicus.

oh, found an entry in lexicanum for anyone who doesnt have the book handy:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Void_Dragon#Horus_Heresy_and_the_Dragon_of_Mars


----------



## Serpion5

I don`t think that was ever answered in the book. A mystery left open for interpretation until they continue with this line of the story. 

Is the answer is there, I didn`t see it.


----------



## Harriticus

Hi, very new to the world of 40k here, been reading a lot of Lexicanumm but I just have a few noobish questions:

1.) Thus far I've only seen Humans corrupted by Chaos. It is to my understanding that the Dark Eldar aren't Chaos Eldar, and I've never seen/heard of Chaos Eldar. I can understand the Tyranids/Necrons being immune to corruption, but why Tau/Ork/Eldar?

2.) Are Chaos Space Marines produced within the Eye of Terror or are they all still the original traitor legions? 

3.) Are the Sisters of Battle genetically enhanced in any way? I've read they're just orphans raised by the Ecclesiarchy and yet they seem to wield armor/weapons comparable to space marines in size. I always thought a regular human couldn't wield a heavy bolter alone.

4.) What's the status of Nuclear Weapons in 40K?


----------



## Catpain Rich

Harriticus said:


> Hi, very new to the world of 40k here, been reading a lot of Lexicanumm but I just have a few noobish questions:
> 
> 1.) Thus far I've only seen Humans corrupted by Chaos. It is to my understanding that the Dark Eldar aren't Chaos Eldar, and I've never seen/heard of Chaos Eldar. I can understand the Tyranids/Necrons being immune to corruption, but why Tau/Ork/Eldar?
> 
> 2.) Are Chaos Space Marines produced within the Eye of Terror or are they all still the original traitor legions?
> 
> 3.) Are the Sisters of Battle genetically enhanced in any way? I've read they're just orphans raised by the Ecclesiarchy and yet they seem to wield armor/weapons comparable to space marines in size. I always thought a regular human couldn't wield a heavy bolter alone.
> 
> 4.) What's the status of Nuclear Weapons in 40K?


1) Tau don't register in the warp very much at all. (not sure about chaos eldar)

2) Some are produced by Fabius Bile etc but the majority of marines in the eye are the original traitors whilst others are more recent renegades.

3) No idea

4) Probably used in some forms of exterminatus.


----------



## locustgate

Harriticus said:


> Hi, very new to the world of 40k here, been reading a lot of Lexicanumm but I just have a few noobish questions:
> 
> 1.) Thus far I've only seen Humans corrupted by Chaos. It is to my understanding that the Dark Eldar aren't Chaos Eldar, and I've never seen/heard of Chaos Eldar. I can understand the Tyranids/Necrons being immune to corruption, but why Tau/Ork/Eldar?
> 
> 2.) Are Chaos Space Marines produced within the Eye of Terror or are they all still the original traitor legions?
> 
> 3.) Are the Sisters of Battle genetically enhanced in any way? I've read they're just orphans raised by the Ecclesiarchy and yet they seem to wield armor/weapons comparable to space marines in size. I always thought a regular human couldn't wield a heavy bolter alone.
> 
> 4.) What's the status of Nuclear Weapons in 40K?


1. Tau are like a flea in the warp and if you go by Fire Warrior next to impossible to corrupt, Orks..........I orks were to worship Khorn everything would be covered with blood, orks can't really follow chaos, Eldar they get their souls sucked out if they even think about it. 

2. Some legions still produce them, Iron Warriors use demon possed women, stick kids in.....the woman and some time later a skinless CSM pops out. Bile is still creating CSM through a bunch of diffrent ways. But most of the CSMs are rengades or the Originals.

3. Modified Power armor can be used by anyone but it is more like a suit of plate mail and not like a part of them. The armor the SoBs use increases their strength a bit and not to mention they are juiced up.

4. Nukes and other nuclear weapons are used, if I remeber right the emperor banned them because they damaged the enviroment and killed your own troops, space battles describes nuclear warheads in torpedos and other balistics.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Harriticus said:


> 1.) Thus far I've only seen Humans corrupted by Chaos. It is to my understanding that the Dark Eldar aren't Chaos Eldar, and I've never seen/heard of Chaos Eldar. I can understand the Tyranids/Necrons being immune to corruption, but why Tau/Ork/Eldar?


Almost all races and species have the potential to be corrupted by chaos. Humans are the most numerous of the mortal followers of chaos, because we are easily corruptable and weak-minded compared to others.

Chaos Eldar are plausable, and probably do exist in small covens. But for the most part Eldar (dark/craftworld/exodite) all despise chaos (Slaanesh in particular) more than most. 

Orks have their own representatives within the warp (Gork & Mork), which havn't been consumed by the rise of chaos simply because the Orks remain as numerous as ever and their 'civilisation' has survived the test of time. Thus they are not susceptible to chaos as a species.

Tyranids are tightly controlled by the Hive Mind thus don't have the option of swearing themselves to chaos. However both Orks and Tyranids can be corrupted physically by chaos if not spiritually.

The Tau do maintain a warp presence, only a very insignificant one compared to humans and eldar for example. They bear the potential to be corrupted by chaos (especially in their ignorance) but at least from chaos' perspective they don't make as valuable followers as humans.

Aside from the above races, there are countless other xenos species in the galaxy. Many of whom have already pledged themselves to chaos, others who have the potential to.



Harriticus said:


> 2.) Are Chaos Space Marines produced within the Eye of Terror or are they all still the original traitor legions?


Both essentially. Many of the original Astartes who rebelled against the Emperor still endure to this day. Whilst Astartes are still produced within the Eye, in a warped form - often with stolen geneseed. The remaining number is made up of renegade Imperial Astartes who have turned at some point during the long war, following the Heresy.



locustgate said:


> if I remeber right the emperor banned them because they damaged the enviroment


Since when has the Emperor been a member of the EPA? 

He burned entire worlds simply because of a few rebels, or a corrupt aristocracy. I don't think he really had any environmental issues with such things. Especially since Terra is fucked environmentally anyway.


----------



## locustgate

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Since when has the Emperor been a member of the EPA?
> 
> He burned entire worlds simply because of a few rebels, or a corrupt aristocracy. I don't think he really had any environmental issues with such things. Especially since Terra is fucked environmentally anyway.


Well forbid them....I think it mentioned it some where in mechanicum.....but it's been a year since I read it.
I can see the emp taking water samples...with his mind.


----------



## Serpion5

Harriticus said:


> Hi, very new to the world of 40k here, been reading a lot of Lexicanumm but I just have a few noobish questions:
> 
> 1.) Thus far I've only seen Humans corrupted by Chaos. It is to my understanding that the Dark Eldar aren't Chaos Eldar, and I've never seen/heard of Chaos Eldar. I can understand the Tyranids/Necrons being immune to corruption, but why Tau/Ork/Eldar?
> 
> Tau don`t really register enough in the warp to warrant any real attempt by the gods to corrupt them. If it is even possible.
> 
> The orks generate their own gestalt psychic field, they generally don`t draw directly on the warp. As such, they rarely fall prey to Chaos, but I believe it has been known to happen on occasion.
> 
> Eldar can fall to Chaos, but they rarely do, having an extreme enmity towards the dark gods, especially Slaanesh. The most famous example is Ahra, the fallen Phoenix Lord and first of the Striking Scorpions.
> 
> 2.) Are Chaos Space Marines produced within the Eye of Terror or are they all still the original traitor legions?
> 
> This depends entirely on the legion or faction in question. Some will recruit, some will manufacture, and there are other, more twisted means of increasing the ranks as well. (R 18+ type stuff) But as CotE said, many of them are still alive from the time of the Horus Heresy.
> 
> 3.) Are the Sisters of Battle genetically enhanced in any way? I've read they're just orphans raised by the Ecclesiarchy and yet they seem to wield armor/weapons comparable to space marines in size. I always thought a regular human couldn't wield a heavy bolter alone.
> 
> There are models of those weapons designed for astartes use and human use. Also, power armour is equipped with servo drives that slightly enhance their strength. Also bear in mind that even outside their power armour, they are as well trained if not better than any guardsman.
> 
> 4.) What's the status of Nuclear Weapons in 40K?
> 
> Given the alternatives available at the current timeline (exterminatus, life eaters, orbital bombardments, etc) I would say that not only are nukes detrimental, they are downright redundant. I am not aware of any scenario where nuclear weapons as we know them today have been used.



That`s my take on it.


----------



## Burias

Do citizens of the Imperium watch TV ? I know they have the public broadcasters that display propaganda and such. But do they ever kick back, drink some sacra (reading GG right now lol), and stare at the ole' boob tube ?


----------



## Serpion5

Probably. Most 40k novels don`t really focus on the civilian life, but there are instances of theater and musicals, so I imagine there would be television equivalents as well.

Actually yes, there is. One of the Cain novels references it, but I can`t think of the exact piece or what the tv`s are called.

Most shows I think, would be based on successful imperial exploits.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Serpion5 said:


> Most shows I think, would be based on successful imperial exploits.


Hahaha, I just imagined sitcoms in 40k. Imagine a show about an ogryn living with a Mechanicum adept.


----------



## Serpion5

Chompy Bits said:


> Hahaha, I just imagined sitcoms in 40k. Imagine a show about an ogryn living with a Mechanicum adept.


The Odd Couple M41. :laugh:


----------



## flvolunteer

*Communications?*

If multiple ships are travelling in the warp together (i.e. as a fleet) can they communicate? If so, how?

Thanks!
flvolunteer


----------



## Darkoan

"I can understand the Tyranids/Necrons being immune to corruption, but why Tau/Ork/Eldar?"


In Storm of Iron - wasnt there a huge corrupted floating Tyranid conveyance used by the Chaos forces??


----------



## normtheunsavoury

The Tau have no psychic ability and don't show up in the Warp so they can't be corrupted by Chaos. 
The Eldar, that's a more difficult one, I would say they can be corrupted but I think it would take other forms from how it affects humans, that's purely me thinking aloud, I could be wrong. Also, the Eldar's souls are already pretty much owned by Slaanesh, maybe the other three just aren't that interested?
As for the Orks, I really don't know, they used to be corruptible and I do remember Khorne Orks being particularly common way back in the day, I'm not sure what's changed but apparently some thing did.


----------



## Baron Spikey

normtheunsavoury said:


> The Tau have no psychic ability and don't show up in the Warp so they can't be corrupted by Chaos.
> The Eldar, that's a more difficult one, I would say they can be corrupted but I think it would take other forms from how it affects humans, that's purely me thinking aloud, I could be wrong. Also, the Eldar's souls are already pretty much owned by Slaanesh, maybe the other three just aren't that interested?
> As for the Orks, I really don't know, they used to be corruptible and I do remember Khorne Orks being particularly common way back in the day, I'm not sure what's changed but apparently some thing did.


Orks are akin to a force of nature, there is nothing the Chaos Gods can offer them that they either don't already have or have in no interest in acquiring.

Khorne- the Orks already live a life dedicated to battle and the thrill of destruction, what can he offer that they don't already have?

Slaanesh- again everything that an Ork loves and 'lusts' after is part and parcel of every day life.

Tzeentch- most Orks just want to krump stuff and distrust anything more cunning than stabbing something in the back with a rusty knife.

Nurgle- maybe if it makes them tougher, but then again the Orks are so hardy and have no fear of death (of any kind) that the usual reasoning for turning to Nurgle worship- fear of your own mortality- is negated by their innate character.

So whilst they could be physically corrupted it's extremely rare that you'll find Orks worshipping the Dark Powers.


----------



## Serpion5

flvolunteer said:


> If multiple ships are travelling in the warp together (i.e. as a fleet) can they communicate? If so, how?
> 
> Thanks!
> flvolunteer


Either long range vox or astropath I would assume. I don`t know for sure but it is entirely possible that no communication at all occurs between ships. Maybe the Gellar field blocks any transmissions? Then again, I imagine astropathy would still be possible.

Thoughts of fleets showing up with ships missing, or lost in the warp spring to mind.



Darkoan said:


> "I can understand the Tyranids/Necrons being immune to corruption, but why Tau/Ork/Eldar?"





normtheunsavoury said:


> The Tau have no psychic ability and don't show up in the Warp so they can't be corrupted by Chaos.
> The Eldar, that's a more difficult one, I would say they can be corrupted but I think it would take other forms from how it affects humans, that's purely me thinking aloud, I could be wrong. Also, the Eldar's souls are already pretty much owned by Slaanesh, maybe the other three just aren't that interested?
> As for the Orks, I really don't know, they used to be corruptible and I do remember Khorne Orks being particularly common way back in the day, I'm not sure what's changed but apparently some thing did.


The tau have a faint psychic presence, but seem to be inherantly resistant to the warping corruption of Chaos. Or perhaps no chaos power regards them as worth the effort. But I think the first option more likely.

Eldar _are_ corruptible, but the rigid diciplines of the craftworld and exodites generally deny the influence of Chaos from taking a foothold in their psyches. That, and the spirit stones protect them from losing their souls to the warp (and Slaanesh).

The DE hate Chaos as much as their cousins and as such do not seek to serve Chaos in any way. They ensure everlasting longevity by drinking the pain of their victims to sustain themselves, thus cheating the warp of their souls. 

There are cases of Eldar falling to Chaos, the fallen Phoenix Lord Ahra being the most prominent.

Baron Spikey pretty much has the orks covered, but I will add this.

Codex: Orks says (somewhere) that the orks have a general distaste of the warp. They aren`t scared (or at least will never admit it) but they do regard the warp entities as extremely... unnatural.


----------



## ytimk

Aggh, another odd/annoying Adept Mechanicus related question:

Is "new" technology in any way still being (maybe not even deliberately) researched/constructed/adapted by the Adeptus Mechanicus or even any persons/organisations/chapters within the current Imperium?

For example are new weapons/vehicles or other types of tech actually purposefully researched? Or are existing things improved upon in way - deliberately or not? Is xenos tech in any way studied to create something new etc (not just finding weakness in xenos species/armaments but actually crafting new/improved weaponry)?

Perhaps I am confusing GW and fan-fic made novels and fluff, but I keep thinking that I have read that in the current Imperium, all "new" tech is considered heretical by the AdMech and that they only will adopt tech recovered from STCs which they consider holy since they emanate from the "wisdom of the ancients" or something.

I keep thinking of this issue in regards to the multiple threats the Imperium faces, and remember others in this forum highlighting the religious procedures that the AdMech go through (and believe!) when constructing and operating machines/equipment (eg applying blessed oil or supplying sacred fuel). 

It could also be part of the quasi-running commentary(? maybe not the best word) on the fact that the entire Imperium has reverted so much from what the Emperor planned as a civilisation based on secularism and reason - it is a place where even those devoted to the machine, logic, and information - the AdMech - are so superstitious and backward that they refuse to experiment and attempt any type of technological progression.


----------



## Hellados

i thought i read that nukes in 40k are used to create the burn after planets are virus bombed to remove the decaying matter etc


----------



## Chompy Bits

Hey, where did Lux's schizo thread go? I wanted to hear the rest of the story.


----------



## Serpion5

ytimk said:


> Aggh, another odd/annoying Adept Mechanicus related question:
> 
> Well, I1m not an AdMech expert, but as a fluff god in training, it is my sworn duty to try and answer every question in this thread.
> 
> Is "new" technology in any way still being (maybe not even deliberately) researched/constructed/adapted by the Adeptus Mechanicus or even any persons/organisations/chapters within the current Imperium?
> 
> Only covertly, by some radical sects of the Inquisition or the AdMech. Generally, it is seen as techno heresy to build anything not covered by an STC.
> 
> For example are new weapons/vehicles or other types of tech actually purposefully researched? Or are existing things improved upon in way - deliberately or not? Is xenos tech in any way studied to create something new etc (not just finding weakness in xenos species/armaments but actually crafting new/improved weaponry)?
> 
> I believe existing technologies can be modified to an extent, so long as "the machine spirit is appeased." Examples include the Blood Angel`s modification of the Rhino chassis to turbo charge the related vehicles.
> 
> Perhaps I am confusing GW and fan-fic made novels and fluff, but I keep thinking that I have read that in the current Imperium, all "new" tech is considered heretical by the AdMech and that they only will adopt tech recovered from STCs which they consider holy since they emanate from the "wisdom of the ancients" or something.
> 
> That is correct. STC`s contain knowledge won during the Golden Age of Technology (or _Dark_ Age if you`re a pessimist) and as such they are considered sacred in a sense. Anything new is considered an affront to the Machine God, since it in no way comes from a divine source. I think it has something to do with mortal minds being too fallible, and the knowledge of the machine being perfect. Or that could be just my own idea. :biggrin:
> 
> I keep thinking of this issue in regards to the multiple threats the Imperium faces, and remember others in this forum highlighting the religious procedures that the AdMech go through (and believe!) when constructing and operating machines/equipment (eg applying blessed oil or supplying sacred fuel).
> 
> Yeah. If they devoted their prayer time to building more, they`d probably triple their output. :laugh:
> 
> It could also be part of the quasi-running commentary(? maybe not the best word) on the fact that the entire Imperium has reverted so much from what the Emperor planned as a civilisation based on secularism and reason - it is a place where even those devoted to the machine, logic, and information - the AdMech - are so superstitious and backward that they refuse to experiment and attempt any type of technological progression.
> 
> Very likely. Humanity has gone backwards, in a civilised and technological sense, compared with what was. But that is part of Human Nature as well. Fear of the Unknown has taken a hold of the species, The Imperium is no longer comprised of the adventurous souls that colonised the galaxy...


My answers in Orange. :victory:



Hellados said:


> i thought i read that nukes in 40k are used to create the burn after planets are virus bombed to remove the decaying matter etc


Maybe. How far weapons have come, if nukes are only used as a source of ignition! :laugh: 



Chompy Bits said:


> Hey, where did Lux's schizo thread go? I wanted to hear the rest of the story.


Well basically, Alpharius (who is really Omegon) stages a coup to sieze the Imperium from the Emperor (who is really a c`tan) but is thwarted by the Hive Mind`s forces (who is really Asuryan) and the resultant war for Terra draws the attention of Night Haunter (who serves the Outsider) who then uses the resultant confusion to infiltrate Mars and wake the Void Dragon (who has possessed Ferrus Manus) and take command of the Grey Knights (who are descended from Horus) and invade Terra en Masse, finally succeeding in their goal of slaying the Emperor (who is really Asuryan... no wait-) :security:


----------



## flvolunteer

Serpion5 said:


> Either long range vox or astropath I would assume. I don`t know for sure but it is entirely possible that no communication at all occurs between ships. Maybe the Gellar field blocks any transmissions? Then again, I imagine astropathy would still be possible.
> 
> Thoughts of fleets showing up with ships missing, or lost in the warp spring to mind.


Thanks for the input! I think you are right about astropathy given that navigation occurs with the Gellar feild up. I'd assume that you still have the same general issues with precision/clarity and possibly time delay if distance in the warp is not the same as real space. And you could be right about vox being blocked. 

So, another questions comes to mind - how do fleets stay together? Is it possible to join Gellar fields and create a "Gellar bubble" where all ships travel together? 

BTW - all this has been spawned by a line of thinking about how fleets maneuver to support some back-story for an upcoming campaign.

Thanks again for the input!


----------



## Serpion5

flvolunteer said:


> Thanks for the input! I think you are right about astropathy given that navigation occurs with the Gellar feild up. I'd assume that you still have the same general issues with precision/clarity and possibly time delay if distance in the warp is not the same as real space. And you could be right about vox being blocked.
> 
> So, another questions comes to mind - how do fleets stay together? Is it possible to join Gellar fields and create a "Gellar bubble" where all ships travel together?
> 
> BTW - all this has been spawned by a line of thinking about how fleets maneuver to support some back-story for an upcoming campaign.
> 
> Thanks again for the input!


You are quite welcome. 

Fleets staying together... Given my assumption on the first question, I would venture a guess, but again I don`t know that it is actually covered anywhere...

Anyway, I`m pretty sure that each navigator operates independently (coming back to the odd ship getting lost bit) using the astronomicon as a reference. Given that relative position has little meaning in the warp, I doubt the ships would be able to cluster inside a gellar bubble, as you put it.

A gellar field operates fairly close to the hull of the ship. And given their habit of occasionally failing, I would not be tempted to increase the strain on them, even momentarily.


So basically, all the Navigators will know the destination, they will operate with only themselves and perhaps an accompanying apprentice until the destination be reached. Given their warp sight ability, I believe they would be able to keep track of each other. 

My theories anyway. :biggrin:

Like I said, I don`t think any of it has been set in stone, so you can be a little inventive if you want. 

Call Serp if you want help. :victory:


----------



## Chompy Bits

Serpion5 said:


> Well basically, Alpharius (who is really Omegon) stages a coup to sieze the Imperium from the Emperor (who is really a c`tan) but is thwarted by the Hive Mind`s forces (who is really Asuryan) and the resultant war for Terra draws the attention of Night Haunter (who serves the Outsider) who then uses the resultant confusion to infiltrate Mars and wake the Void Dragon (who has possessed Ferrus Manus) and take command of the Grey Knights (who are descended from Horus) and invade Terra en Masse, finally succeeding in their goal of slaying the Emperor (who is really Asuryan... no wait-) :security:


Actually, apparently the 40k universe is nothing but the Emperor's dillusion, who himself is actually a schizo businessman who's in a hospital somewhere on life support. He was betrayed by Harold (that's right, the Harold Heresy) and the plot involved everything from Starbucks to Zimbabwe. The thread disappeared before Lux could finish his 'analyses'. Despite its completely new level of ridiculousness, it was actually quite entertaining and, dare I say it, pretty epic. Hence why I was so bummed when Lux couldn't finish it.


----------



## Quozzo

Serpion5 said:


> Anyway, I`m pretty sure that each navigator operates independently (coming back to the odd ship getting lost bit) using the astronomicon as a reference. Given that relative position has little meaning in the warp, I doubt the ships would be able to cluster inside a gellar bubble, as you put it.


There must be some sort of relativity inside the warp, even if its contained in the geller field, otherwise ships would just break a part and go their separate ways. I think a geller bubble would be a safer solution as the strain on each geller field generator would be considerably less, 4/3 (pie) r squared.


----------



## Serpion5

Quozzo said:


> There must be some sort of relativity inside the warp, even if its contained in the geller field, otherwise ships would just break a part and go their separate ways. I think a geller bubble would be a safer solution as the strain on each geller field generator would be considerably less, 4/3 (pie) r squared.


As I said, the Navigators would keep track of each other. And a gellar field must be expanded (and therefore weakened) in order to join others and form a bubble. I do not believe it safe to do so, even for a second.

And your math does not change that, nor does your relativity. You do realize we`re talking about the warp right? Relativity, Maths and Physics in general mean sweet fuck all. 

Bear in mind, that post was entirely theory and educated guess, based purely on what vast knowledge I possess. :so_happy:


----------



## flvolunteer

No matter what, it does raise some serious strategic issues when planning attacks with a fleet. If there is no contact between the ships while in the warp then, theoretically at least, there is the potential for the supply ship to show up on target while all the attack ships are light years away. That would really suck for the supply ship pilot if he was staring down the guns of a Tau orbital station with nothing but the equivalent of a pea shooter and a prayer to the Emperor in his arsenal.

For the record, I realize I am probably WAY over thinking this, it just seemed an interesting thing to ponder as I try to imagine the mindset of a warmaster planning a mass crusade with thousands of ships assaulting multiple worlds. 

Thanks for all the input!


----------



## Hellados

i guess they would land close to the objective gather up then do a short jump in 

i think the tau do that, keep bases etc away from planets and stuff so theyre are VERY hard to find


----------



## Serpion5

flvolunteer said:


> No matter what, it does raise some serious strategic issues when planning attacks with a fleet. If there is no contact between the ships while in the warp then, theoretically at least, there is the potential for the supply ship to show up on target while all the attack ships are light years away. That would really suck for the supply ship pilot if he was staring down the guns of a Tau orbital station with nothing but the equivalent of a pea shooter and a prayer to the Emperor in his arsenal.
> 
> For the record, I realize I am probably WAY over thinking this, it just seemed an interesting thing to ponder as I try to imagine the mindset of a warmaster planning a mass crusade with thousands of ships assaulting multiple worlds.
> 
> Thanks for all the input!





Hellados said:


> i guess they would land close to the objective gather up then do a short jump in
> 
> i think the tau do that, keep bases etc away from planets and stuff so theyre are VERY hard to find


Hellados is right, the rendesvous point is typically a reasonable distance from the actual objective planet. Also bear in mind that 40k tends to be focussed on macro in the extreme. You may not hear much about them, but I would be pretty sure that there would be mishaps galore on the Fleet front.

But the Imperium is a big place, and overall nobody really gives a shit... :laugh:


----------



## ThatOtherGuy

Okay, here are my slew of questions:

Does the Imperium still use chainaxes, or are they sort of banned thanks to the whole Horus Heresy thing?

How strong is terminator armor?

Has the swarmlord ever died in the milkyway galaxy? Or is his still running around pissing on anything that it can find?

And do the eldar eat bacon? Surely a great and perfect race must eat the most great and perfect food of all time...


----------



## aboytervigon

the swarmlord was supposed to be slain but they never found its body but it doesn't matter as the hive mind will grow a new one.


----------



## Baron Spikey

ThatOtherGuy said:


> Okay, here are my slew of questions:
> 
> Does the Imperium still use chainaxes, or are they sort of banned thanks to the whole Horus Heresy thing?


Yes Chain Axes are still used, most notably by the Flesh Tearers in their Index Astartes art, they're just not as common as Chainswords because they're a very brutal, offensive weapon rather than the more balanced and aesthetically pleasing Chainsword.



ThatOtherGuy said:


> How strong is terminator armor?


Well it's tough enough that it can resist being stepped on by a Titan, and it's strengthens the wearer to such a degree that he can literally toss an Astartes like the Marine was a small child.


----------



## Professor Pumpkin

The Eldar now have a hatred of bacon, as Slaanesh used bacon to lure the Eldar gods to their death. Although they still regard it as a tasty snack.

My question is:

Is it possible to mend a flaw in a geneseed?


----------



## Baron Spikey

Professor Pumpkin said:


> My question is:
> 
> Is it possible to mend a flaw in a geneseed?


In 40K? No. The understanding of gene seed is limited in the 41st millennium, sometimes the attempt will be made to negate the flaws with use of geneseed from another source to bolster a differing type (i.e. utilising 2 types of geneseed from different Legions/Chapters) but the flaws themselves are incurable.

In 30K the possibility existed but even then it would have taken the Emperor and his personal scientists to effect a change, not even then would it have been certain a 'cure' could be synthesised.


----------



## ThatOtherGuy

Baron Spikey said:


> Well it's tough enough that it can resist being stepped on by a Titan, and it's strengthens the wearer to such a degree that he can literally toss an Astartes like the Marine was a small child.


Yeah, but apparently gene stealer claws can tear through terminator armor with ease as well with necron warscythes... but I take it that those are just exceptions...

Also, are chaos-androids still in use, or are they not cannon anymore?


----------



## Baron Spikey

ThatOtherGuy said:


> Yeah, but apparently gene stealer claws can tear through terminator armor with ease as well with necron warscythes... but I take it that those are just exceptions...
> 
> Also, are chaos-androids still in use, or are they not cannon anymore?


Well being stepped on by a Titan or similar is a crushing effect not a slicing one, but that is more of a demonstration of how incredibly potent Genestealers and Warscythes are rather than how Terminator armour isn't.

I've not heard anything in fluff within the last 10 years to retcon Chaos Androids out of existence, but on the flip side I've not seen them mentioned either.


----------



## ThatOtherGuy

Baron Spikey said:


> Well being stepped on by a Titan or similar is a crushing effect not a slicing one, but that is more of a demonstration of how incredibly potent Genestealers and Warscythes are rather than how Terminator armour isn't.


Well, that brings me to the final question of the day, what materials (inorganic or organic) are strong enough to resist such weaponry? Or even immune?


----------



## Baron Spikey

ThatOtherGuy said:


> Well, that brings me to the final question of the day, what materials (inorganic or organic) are strong enough to resist such weaponry? Or even immune?


Well Adamantium is one of the strongest and most damage resistant materials in the 40k-verse (as in every fictional universe it appears in) so against Genestealers it would be simply a case of thickness to defeat their claws, against a Warscythe? I don't think there is a substance in real space that can ward their blows.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Professor Pumpkin said:


> Is it possible to mend a flaw in a geneseed?


Well, the Black Rage and Red Thirst was removed from the Lamenters geneseed. The only problem is there was a negative side-effect, the Lamenters's curse of bad luck. Sounds lame I know, but it has landed them in loads of shit before and virtually decimated the chapter. As such, they could probably try and fix some of the various chapters's gene flaws but they run the risk of making it much worse.


----------



## Serpion5

ThatOtherGuy said:


> Okay, here are my slew of questions:
> 
> Does the Imperium still use chainaxes, or are they sort of banned thanks to the whole Horus Heresy thing?
> 
> How strong is terminator armor?
> 
> Has the swarmlord ever died in the milkyway galaxy? Or is his still running around pissing on anything that it can find?
> 
> And do the eldar eat bacon? Surely a great and perfect race must eat the most great and perfect food of all time...


1: Chainaxes are rare, favoured only by the most brutal chapters that don`t really give a shit about setting a positive image of themselves. Fleshtearers, as mentioned.

2: Pretty damn strong, as Baron said. In addiion to what he put forth, in the SW codex they use termi armour to _*walk along the ocean floor*_ to combat the tau who have constructed an underwater base. To withstand that kind of pressure speaks of a level of badassery that most other races would be harpressed to match. I`ve only ever read of the tyranids and tau being able to fight in the oceans as well, most other armies don`t have that kind of equipment readily available.

3: The Swarmlord has died plenty of times, but due to the fact that it is the most badass nid out there, it can reform within the Hive Mind Collective and be respawned with a new body, in any Hive Fleet. Currently, it is leading the attack against the orks of Octarius.

4: Bacon may be the perfect meat of humanity, but the Eldar have a treat that is by far superior.



ThatOtherGuy said:


> Yeah, but apparently gene stealer claws can tear through terminator armor with ease as well with necron warscythes... but I take it that those are just exceptions...
> 
> Also, are chaos-androids still in use, or are they not cannon anymore?


Nothing, I repeat, NOTHING can withstand a direct blow from a warscythe. They phase in and out of multiple dimensions, allowing them to bypass any and all defences. By this logic, every necron should be able to make warscythe equivalent attacks, because they all have the same technology... 

And Genestealer claws are laced with adamantium and coupled with a strength equalling or surpassing that of astartes... Easy.

I`ve never heard of Chaos Androids. :dunno:


----------



## locustgate

What year did the Damocles Crusade start?


----------



## Baron Spikey

Sadly the start date isn't given only the end date of 742.M41 (so similar time period to the Sabbat Crusade). Sorry.


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Not worth giving its own thread and probably answered explicitly somewhere (but I haven't found it). Why do humans have psykers at all? Is it natural evolution over 40,000 years (which is feasible, but pretty unrealistic in my opinion), or perhaps something darker... like lost genetic experimentation during the Dark Age of Technology, the effects of which have not manifested until now (or whenever psykers started to become prominent... as early as the Great Crusade? That's the other part that confuses me).

Psykers have so much power and potential, so it's worth finding out how they came to be.


----------



## ThatOtherGuy

Serpion5 said:


> 4: Bacon may be the perfect meat of humanity, but the Eldar have a treat that is by far superior.


Thats squig-shit. How can anything be more perfect than bacon? Unless they coat their bacon in bacon bits. But that is for another time my good friend.



Serpion5 said:


> I`ve never heard of Chaos Androids.


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaos_Android

Their like necrons... but far more badass.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Davidicus 40k said:


> Not worth giving its own thread and probably answered explicitly somewhere (but I haven't found it). Why do humans have psykers at all? Is it natural evolution over 40,000 years (which is feasible, but pretty unrealistic in my opinion), or perhaps something darker... like lost genetic experimentation during the Dark Age of Technology, the effects of which have not manifested until now (or whenever psykers started to become prominent... as early as the Great Crusade? That's the other part that confuses me).
> 
> Psykers have so much power and potential, so it's worth finding out how they came to be.


It is either a natural phenomenon via our inherent psychic connection to the warp or the result of the Old Ones fostering us to some extent. Either way we are slowly evolving towards our psychic potential, our species as a whole generating more psykers and a stronger psychic connection every generation - which obviously increases the threat that chaos poses with every passing generation.


----------



## Serpion5

Davidicus 40k said:


> Not worth giving its own thread and probably answered explicitly somewhere (but I haven't found it). Why do humans have psykers at all? Is it natural evolution over 40,000 years (which is feasible, but pretty unrealistic in my opinion), or perhaps something darker... like lost genetic experimentation during the Dark Age of Technology, the effects of which have not manifested until now (or whenever psykers started to become prominent... as early as the Great Crusade? That's the other part that confuses me).
> 
> Psykers have so much power and potential, so it's worth finding out how they came to be.


Psychic potential has always existed within humanity`s gene pool. Let`s travel back in time...


The Old Ones had been fighting the necrons and c`tan for millions of years now. They had created servant races who like them bore the seed of psychic potential. This granted them formiddable power, but also reflected heavily in the warp. (I`m sure if you peruse the fluff section you`ll find out anything you didn`t know about that topic.) 

One of the very last genetic tamperings they did was with humanity`s earliest ancestors. Given the approximate timeline (a little over 60 mya) we can assume the creatures were little more than little lemur like life forms at this stage. 

Evolution, civilisation, all that jazz, and we have a primitive human society with shamans and mysticcs and primitive religions. Then for some reasons psykers disappeared from the gene pool for a long time. Cue the age of technology, and psykers are once again proven to exist. Selective breeding and further tampering by the now advanced human culture results in the appearance of the Navigators, as well as such useful individuals as Astropaths and other sanctioned psykers. 

The psyker gene has always been part of humanity`s gene pool, it just had a period of dormancy, or so it would seem. I don`t know if GW ever clearly explained that bit, but I`m pretty sure it had something to do with the Emperor.

EDIT: Damn you, you crafty ninja! :laugh: 



ThatOtherGuy said:


> Thats squig-shit. How can anything be more perfect than bacon? Unless they coat their bacon in bacon bits. But that is for another time my good friend.


Ah, the feeble limitations of the human mind...


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Serpion5 said:


> Then for some reasons psykers disappeared from the gene pool for a long time. Cue the age of technology, and psykers are once again proven to exist.


I don't believe it's ever been mentioned that the psychic gene for some reason disappeared from the genepool. Merely that psykers were scientifically proved to exist during the early days of the Second Dark Age of Technology.

Before that they were an anomaly (and extremley rare), and probably for the most part labelled as witches and executed if ever discovered... :hang1: 

...Well would have been at certain points in humanity's history anyway.


----------



## Serpion5

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I don't believe it's ever been mentioned that the psychic gene for some reason disappeared from the genepool. Merely that psykers were scientifically proved to exist during the early days of the Second Dark Age of Technology.
> 
> Before that they were an anomaly (and extremley rare), and probably for the most part labelled as witches and executed if ever discovered... :hang1:
> 
> ...Well would have been at certain points in humanity's history anyway.


... I concede your point. You are right. They _seemed_ to disappear, due primarily to genetic rarity and a lack of general belief in magic and psychic crap. So likely those with the gift may never have even known they possessed it. :dunno:


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Serpion5 said:


> ... I concede your point. You are right. They _seemed_ to disappear, due primarily to genetic rarity and a lack of general belief in magic and psychic crap. So likely those with the gift may never have even known they possessed it. :dunno:


That all makes sense, thanks for the breakdown.


----------



## ytimk

Serpion5 said:


> My answers in Orange. :victory:


thanks mate

I still find it sad though, so much backwardness (especially in technology) in a time of constant war which demands ingenuity. ARRRRg stupid ADMECH :ireful2:

Oh well, GW can always bring out new Imperial Weapons and claim they were from recovered STC designs (either newly discovered or existing ones the AdMech finally were able to decipher).


----------



## locustgate

Ok I have some questions about the tau that I have never found an answer for.

1:Fire warriors
1a: What is the Fire Warrior armor made of?
1b: Can the FW helmets do anything, nightvision....anything like a HUD?
1c: Is there anything special about the fire warrior's backpack?

2: Crisis suits
2a: Same as the fire warrior one, I know there's the special issue iridium armor?
2b: In last chancer's one of the characters was electrocuted (fried) when he tried to steal a battle suit, was this a sort of security system or did he just screw up?
2c:Kind of related to 2b is it possible for a human to use a battle suit?


----------



## Serpion5

locustgate said:


> Ok I have some questions about the tau that I have never found an answer for.
> 
> 1:Fire warriors
> 1a: What is the Fire Warrior armor made of?
> Not sure. I imagine a similar material to IG flak/carapace armour, as it generally has a similar effect.
> 1b: Can the FW helmets do anything, nightvision....anything like a HUD?
> Fluffwise, yes, they provide a digital enhanced readout, somewhat similar to the HUD in an astartes helmet. As well as inbuilt communications.
> 1c: Is there anything about the fire warrior's backpack?
> Have you never noticed modern soldiers carrying backpacks? I`m assuming it`s just battlefield supplies. Keep in mind that the Fire Warriors do not include specialised medics. Nor do they wear ammo belts. Hmmm...?
> 
> 2: Crisis suits
> 2a: Same as the fire warrior one, I know there's the special issue iridium armor?
> Undoubtedly some form of metal as far as I`m concerned. Unless they`ve developed some kind of super plastic.
> 2b: In last chancer's one of the characters was electrocuted when he tried to steal a battle suit, was this a sort of security system or did he just screw up?
> No idea. Sounds funny though.
> 2c:Kind of related to 2b is it possible for a human to use a battle suit?
> I cannot see any reason why not, but I don`t know of any military force (real or fictional) that would ever give its _auxilliary_ troops access to the highest level wargear. A Battlesuit must be earned, remember, difficult even for a tau. A human`s chances would be even slimmer, and I`m not aware of it ever actually happening.
> 
> But I don`t think there`s any physical reason why a human wouldn`t be able to use one other than if the tech requires a direct neural link to the tau brain. In which case, a modification _could_ be made without much trouble I would imagine.


Not aware of any official fluff, so my answers are a bit of educated guesswork. Sorry, I`ll try, but I think this area of fluff is a bit neglected.


----------



## Baron Spikey

locustgate said:


> 1a: What is the Fire Warrior armor made of?


It's constructed from 2 layers. The outer face is a hard, ultra-dense nanocrystalline metal, bonded to an inner layer of high-performance, thermo-set, molecular polythene.



locustgate said:


> 1b: Can the FW helmets do anything, nightvision....anything like a HUD?


They contain communication equipment, night vision sensors, targeting and range-finder information, and access to the command network.
It's believed the helmet also has some form of visual relay but that's unconfirmed.



locustgate said:


> 2a: Same as the fire warrior one, I know there's the special issue iridium armor?


The Battlesuits use a dense, nanocrystalline alloy of an unknown composition- which is of a higher quality than plasteel and far lighter


----------



## locustgate

Serpion5 said:


> 1c: Is there anything about the fire warrior's backpack?
> Have you never noticed modern soldiers carrying backpacks? I`m assuming it`s just battlefield supplies. Keep in mind that the Fire Warriors do not include specialised medics. Nor do they wear ammo belts. Hmmm...?


Thank you.

I always assumed it was just used to carry extra gear.


----------



## Serpion5

No worries. The Good Baron put me to shame with the rest :blush: but I`ll soon have a copy of several of the IA series, which are usually chokfull of Lore, so I should be a bigger help in a month or two... hopefully.  

As a xeno "expert" *cough* the Tau are probably my weakest link. Have only the current (old) codex and a few novels with them as enemies at the moment...


----------



## forkmaster

locustgate said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I always assumed it was just used to carry extra gear.


I recommend the game Fire Warrior if you want a greater insight on Fire Warriors, even though the game is generally disliked by most people who have tried it. I like it and think the graphics are... well outdated now by far but not terrible.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

forkmaster said:


> I recommend the game Fire Warrior if you want a greater insight on Fire Warriors, even though the game is generally disliked by most people who have tried it. I like it and think the graphics are... well outdated now by far but not terrible.


Outdated indeed :biggrin:

Two ?'s

1) Is it possible to be in service to more than one Chaos God? I know your immediate thought is Chaos Undivided but I'm talking about taking it steps further. As if a single person was like a Khorne Berzerker and a Plague Marine.

2) Is it possible to be possesed by multiple demons?


----------



## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> 1) Is it possible to be in service to more than one Chaos God? I know your immediate thought is Chaos Undivided but I'm talking about taking it steps further. As if a single person was like a Khorne Berzerker and a Plague Marine.


I do not believe this to be the case. A Plague Marine is forever locked within the service of Nurgle, his body beyond redemption and his soul forever claimed. Similar can be said of the Khorne Berzerker, his mind has been purged of almost all but the desire to kill. 

An undedicated marine (or human) can temporarily swithch alleigences, but I believe that is the extent of it.



Androxine Vortex said:


> 2) Is it possible to be possesed by multiple demons?


_My name is Legion, for We are many..._

Seriously though, I doubt it. Daemons are fickle, selfish and arrogant. I doubt any would willingly share a vessel. 

I cannot say for sure though, CotE or someone else might have more info.


----------



## Harriticus

So according to Lexicanum, the Emperor was born in 8,000 B.C.. Yet he first appears as a relevant figure in Galactic history in the year 28,000. So my question is: what exactly was the Emperor doing for 36,000 years? Seems like an awfully long time to sit around when you had the kind of ambition he did.


----------



## Baron Spikey

The idea/theory is that he was subtly guiding humanity from the shadows and that he was actually some of history's most prominent figures (Saint George for instance).


----------



## Serpion5

Harriticus said:


> So according to Lexicanum, the Emperor was born in 8,000 B.C.. Yet he first appears as a relevant figure in Galactic history in the year 28,000. So my question is: what exactly was the Emperor doing for 36,000 years? Seems like an awfully long time to sit around when you had the kind of ambition he did.





Baron Spikey said:


> The idea/theory is that he was subtly guiding humanity from the shadows and that he was actually some of history's most prominent figures (Saint George for instance).


On that note, he probably would have had to keep an eye on a sleeping dragon for a long time, so I imagine he would have had to dedicate some of his time to keeping it hidden. 

The Dragon`s dreaming while it was on Earth probably assisted the development of society`s technology, accounting for the current era`s visionary scientific advancements. 

Does anyone have any ideas where the Big E might have stashed the thing? :biggrin:


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> On that note, he probably would have had to keep an eye on a sleeping dragon for a long time, so I imagine he would have had to dedicate some of his time to keeping it hidden.
> 
> The Dragon`s dreaming while it was on Earth probably assisted the development of society`s technology, accounting for the current era`s visionary scientific advancements.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas where the Big E might have stashed the thing? :biggrin:


Serpion is ASKING a question? :shok:
:laugh:

I'n not familiar witht the dragon you are talking about.


----------



## locustgate

Serpion5 said:


> On that note, he probably would have had to keep an eye on a sleeping dragon for a long time, so I imagine he would have had to dedicate some of his time to keeping it hidden.
> 
> The Dragon`s dreaming while it was on Earth probably assisted the development of society`s technology, accounting for the current era`s visionary scientific advancements.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas where the Big E might have stashed the thing? :biggrin:


On mars in the noctic labrinthy......well the Labyrinth of night. Just got done reading mechanicum thursday.


----------



## Serpion5

locustgate said:


> On mars in the noctic labrinthy......well the Labyrinth of night. Just got done reading mechanicum thursday.


I know that! :laugh: I read Mechanicum two days after it was released.

I meant where did he stash it on _Earth_ before he had the means to move it to Mars? He fought it centuries ago, but humanity has yet to reach Mars, right? Where did he hide it in the meantime is what I`m saying. 

Naturally, there is no real answer. I just thought it would be fun to speculate. My guess would be somewhere under Japan, considering all the funky robotics they`ve got going over there. :grin:

@Androxine Vortex: I`m asking a _*RHETORICAL*_ question. As if I`d ever ask a real question here. Heh, heh... My knowledge is LIMITLESS...ish.

Anyway, the Dragon of Mars aka The Void Dragon is one of the four surviving c`tan. It currently sleeps on Mars, its dreams empowering the Mechanicus at least until it wakes up. :spiteful:


----------



## locustgate

Serpion5 said:


> I know that! :laugh: I read Mechanicum two days after it was released.
> 
> I meant where did he stash it on _Earth_ before he had the means to move it to Mars? He fought it centuries ago, but humanity has yet to reach Mars, right? Where did he hide it in the meantime is what I`m saying.
> 
> Naturally, there is no real answer. I just thought it would be fun to speculate. My guess would be somewhere under Japan, considering all the funky robotics they`ve got going over there. :grin:
> 
> @Androxine Vortex: I`m asking a _*RHETORICAL*_ question. As if I`d ever ask a real question here. Heh, heh... My knowledge is LIMITLESS...ish.
> 
> Anyway, the Dragon of Mars aka The Void Dragon is one of the four surviving c`tan. It currently sleeps on Mars, its dreams empowering the Mechanicus at least until it wakes up. :spiteful:


Well maybe the Himalayas, think about it they are huge and have plenty of places to hide. Japan he would be pretty limited, I could see it in Mt.Fuji. You should of been more specific the Sol system is a big place.


----------



## Boc

locustgate said:


> Well maybe the Himalayas, think about it they are huge and have plenty of places to hide. Japan he would be pretty limited, I could see it in Mt.Fuji. You should of been more specific the Sol system is a big place.


Clearly it was hidden in the volcanoes in Hawaii! The Scientologists are right!


----------



## chand223

Couple of questions here:

Has there every been anything extrapolating on what the wards were that Magnus broke, opening the Imperial Webway? And why they cannot be replaced?

Also, if that was to happen, what is the issue with the Emperors soul being moved into a wraithstone type device (or the one featured in Eisenhorn). While I understand there are factions that would not want this to happen, we know the emperor is atleast semi conscious, though split up. Surely he has thought of this. Im probably just ignorant to the mechanisms involved.


----------



## Serpion5

chand223 said:


> Couple of questions here:
> 
> Has there every been anything extrapolating on what the wards were that Magnus broke, opening the Imperial Webway? And why they cannot be replaced?
> 
> Also, if that was to happen, what is the issue with the Emperors soul being moved into a wraithstone type device (or the one featured in Eisenhorn). While I understand there are factions that would not want this to happen, we know the emperor is atleast semi conscious, though split up. Surely he has thought of this. Im probably just ignorant to the mechanisms involved.


No idea I`m afraid. The Inquisition and Grey Knights use hexagrammic wards to fend off or imprison daemons, but whether these could be employed on that scale is beyond my immediate knowledge.

As for the Wraithstone Emperor, it is possible that he did not have access to the technology at the time. Later inquisitors may have it via striking a bargain with the eldar, but we are well aware that the Emperor was well opposed to collusion with xenos.

Also bear in mind that such a binding is typically permanent, and even the eldar do it reluctantly out of necessity not desire.


----------



## Harriticus

Some more nitpicky questions on Imperial forces:

1.) I know the Adeptus Mechanicus armed forces operate Titans, Ordinatus pieces, Skiitari warriors, etc. but do they also operate standard Imperial Guard equipment like Leman Russ Tanks, Sentinels, Rhinos, and so on? 

2.) I've seen some images, most specifically this, which shows various kinds of Imperial combat robots. Are these regularly used as combat troops by the Mechanicus?

3.) Does the Adeptus Arbites operate its own fleet of warship? Like Battleships, Cruisers, and so on.


----------



## locustgate

Harriticus said:


> Some more nitpicky questions on Imperial forces:
> 
> 2.) I've seen some images, most specifically this, which shows various kinds of Imperial combat robots. Are these regularly used as combat troops by the Mechanicus?


I don't know about know but in mechanicum Chrom's forces were mostly robots


----------



## Serpion5

Harriticus said:


> Some more nitpicky questions on Imperial forces:
> 
> 1.) I know the Adeptus Mechanicus armed forces operate Titans, Ordinatus pieces, Skiitari warriors, etc. but do they also operate standard Imperial Guard equipment like Leman Russ Tanks, Sentinels, Rhinos, and so on?
> 
> 2.) I've seen some images, most specifically this, which shows various kinds of Imperial combat robots. Are these regularly used as combat troops by the Mechanicus?
> 
> 3.) Does the Adeptus Arbites operate its own fleet of warship? Like Battleships, Cruisers, and so on.


1: As far as I`m aware, the Mechanicus military consists of their various titans, skiitari and they also have a fleet presence. I`ve never read of them using IG or astartes gear, despite the fact that they manufacture it... The Baron might know. 

2: Robots were used by the mechanicus during the crusade and the heresy, but I think most of their current warrior constructs are servitors of some kind. I believe AI is forbidden within the Imperium and the Mechanicus.

3: I believe the arbites are predominantly a local police force, but they are able to requisition transport if their investigations take them between systems. Unless I`m mistaken, there are cases where an arbites precinct will cover a system or even subsector, so it follows that they would have a means of transportation. It is unlikely to be a full scale military fleet though. Again, the Baron is an Imperial expert, he of all would know for sure.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Harriticus said:


> 1.) I know the Adeptus Mechanicus armed forces operate Titans, Ordinatus pieces, Skiitari warriors, etc. but do they also operate standard Imperial Guard equipment like Leman Russ Tanks, Sentinels, Rhinos, and so on?


Whilst it's not explicitly stated that the Mechanicus forces use similar vehicles to the Imperial Guard/Arbite/Sororitas we do know that the least augmented Skiitari troops use IG equivalent weapons, and with the Rhino and Chimera being so ubiquitous I would find it difficult to believe that the Mechanicus don't keep a number of vehicles based on them for their own use.



Harriticus said:


> 2.) I've seen some images, most specifically this, which shows various kinds of Imperial combat robots. Are these regularly used as combat troops by the Mechanicus?


Whilst AI is banned, robots are still used to some degree with limited programming- they're very uncommon though as it's a largely forgotton method of manufacture and servitors are, comparatively, much easier to manufacture and far more disposable in the eyes of the Mechanicus.



Harriticus said:


> 3.) Does the Adeptus Arbites operate its own fleet of warship? Like Battleships, Cruisers, and so on.


The Arbites do have their own fleet of sorts but it's nothing like the Imperial Navy, the division of power in the Imperium would mean that if the Arbites were to acquire a Battleship or Cruiser then by Imperial Decree they would have to hand it to the Navy. The IN clash with the Astartes if a Chapter attempts to use a ship that could be considered a ship of the line, and the Arbites have none of the autonomy of the Astartes.

As Serpion said it's usually transports and small escorts/patrol boats that are operated directly by the Arbites, nothing more grandiose.


----------



## captain wood

*why do the blood ravens and blood swords not claim sanguinius lineage?*

whats so diffrent about the blood ravens and blood sword with th blood angels 
i know they both contain the word BLOOD:biggrin: but seriosly why?


----------



## Baron Spikey

The only connection between the 3 chapters is the word 'Blood', why would the Blood Ravens and Blood Swords claim to be of sanguinius just because they have similar names?

It would be like the Iron Knights claiming to be of Ferrus Manus lineage just because they have a word in their title the same as the Iron Hands (for the record the IK are Imperial Fist successors).

These style threads belong in the 40k Fluff section not General 40k.


----------



## Orochi

Tax is to high.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Baron Spikey said:


> These style threads belong in the 40k Fluff section not General 40k.


And to be honest they are more suited to the Random Questions thread, because obviously such questions are not going to inspire enough debate as to warrant their own thread.


----------



## Captain Stillios

The codex tells LIEZ, the Blood Swords are descendants of Sanguinius, they are in the book Red Fury and their Chapter Master actually dies in the defence of Sanguinius's tomb.


----------



## locustgate

Captain Stillios said:


> The codex tells LIEZ, the Blood Swords are descendants of Sanguinius, they are in the book Red Fury and their Chapter Master actually dies in the defence of Sanguinius's tomb.


Just because they are in a book doesn't mean they are BA desendents and I believe any loyalist would protect a primarch tomb.


----------



## Captain Stillios

They also suffer from the Thirst and Rage. And Chapter Master Dante only summons Sanguinius's descendents and Daggan also states that his Chapter suffer from the rage and thirst.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Well regardless, they don't claim to be of Sanguinius lineage just because they have 'Blood' in their name.

There's likely to be more chapters with that word in their name that *aren't* BA successors than are.

And as always CotE is correct- this getting merged with Random Questions


----------



## captain wood

o right.....ok


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Is the Eldar webway in the warp? Basically what is the relationship between the warp and the webway?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> Is the Eldar webway in the warp?


"...It is defined by the fact it sits between the material realm and the roiling tides of the warp." - _Codex: Dark Eldar, Page 8._

"The webway is a labyrinth that exists between the material dimension and the warp, part of both and yet not wholly in either." - _Codex: Eldar, Page 12._

Hope that helps.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> "...It is defined by the fact it sits between the material realm and the roiling tides of the warp." - _Codex: Dark Eldar, Page 8._
> 
> "The webway is a labyrinth that exists between the material dimension and the warp, part of both and yet not wholly in either." - _Codex: Eldar, Page 12._
> 
> Hope that helps.


Well sort of. Can the Eldar go into to the warp from the webway or is it exclusive and vide-versa?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> Well sort of. Can the Eldar go into to the warp from the webway or is it exclusive and vide-versa?


The webway is strictly kept seperate from the warp, for obvious reasons. The tunnels, passages and networks that make up the webway are all sealed with powerful runes and ancient technologies for the express purpose of keeping the webway seperate from the warp. However since the Fall large swathes of the webway have fallen to the warp and become lost, forever sealed from the other parts of the webway.

In answer to your question, no the Eldar cannot go directly into the warp via the webway unless they pierce the runes of protection seperating the two realms. But remember that the Eldar generally avoid Slaanesh like _Serpion_ does intelligence P), at least as much as they can. And utilising the warp for things like warp travel would be an unnecessary risk, especially given the existence of the webway. That doesn't however remove the fact that they are a highly attuned psychic species whose connection to the warp is part of their psyche and culture.

Sort of went off-topic there, but the general jist is that the webway is in a sense of the word, an artificially created seperate dimension that lies between the warp and realspace.


----------



## Boc

The best way to really visualize/describe it is to picture a tunnel underwater, if you were a Brit I'd say the Chunnel. The water surrounding it is the Warp, and the tunnel is (obviously) the webway. And, much like the Warp/webway, if somehow you pierced the outer layers of the tunnel to gain access to the outside, you're screwed 

An interesting facet of the webway is how different tunnels are different sizes, allowing either foot-traffic or vehicular traffic through it. The scenes in the final novel of the Inquisition Wars had some excellent portions in the webway.


----------



## Serpion5

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> But remember that the Eldar generally avoid Slaanesh like _Serpion_ does intelligence P)


Turns out that intelligence is completely optional, particularly in a fictitious universe. :crazy: :laugh:

But to expand on what my _intelligent_ (oo lala) fellow Heretic has explained, the eldar are able to navigate the warp much like any other race would, but rarely does the need arise. 

One such instance occurs in the novel DoW Tempest *ducks thrown objects* when the Blood Ravens are forced to team up with an Eldar Farseer to locate a Harlequin world for reasons involving Ahriman. (It would be painful I know, but maybe CotE should read this series if he hasn`t already :laugh

Farseer Taldeer acts as the Navigator, guiding the space marine vessel to a section of the warp where there is a hidden entrance to the webway. The experience almost killed her. It drained much of her life force and caused her eyes to literally pop from their sockets, dued partially to the immense strain the warp exerted on her and partially due to her alien incompatibility with the human navigator throne. 

My point being, the the webway and warp are connected, and the possibility of a direct link does exist. After all, daemons use it to invade craftworlds don`t they? The Eldar runes _are_ designed to keep them seperate, but accidents happen and exceptions to the rules are made.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

@ Child-of-the-Emperor & Boc
Those were very good answers! Thanks for the replies.
I understand it now! It's all so clear!
I'm on my way to the webway right now! NOTHING CAN STOP ME!


----------



## locustgate

I have some questions about ICivilians lifespan
How long does the average citizen live?
I have read about rejuvinate drugs, or something like that, in one of the Ravanor books. How does it work?


----------



## Serpion5

All I know is that rejuvenat slows the aging process. Someone using it may look to be in their forties but could really be several centuries old. 

High Ranking Military personnell are entitled to it, as well as Inquisitors and their staff, but anyone with the money can buy treatments. Most planetary Governors seem to use it, as well as other members of nobility.

If it is detailed anywhere exactly how it works, I haven`t found it. :dunno:

As with all Imperial stuff, Baron would be the guy to ask.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I believe I have asked this before but maybe not so i'll ask anyway:

Demons are born from gods in the warp. Is it possible for demons to break away from their god's leash? I know Malal used to help people like this (I think demons as well)


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> Demons are born from gods in the warp. Is it possible for demons to break away from their god's leash?


Theoretically yes. Although for the most part no.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Theoretically yes. Although for the most part no.


could i ask for a better explanation? (pleeeeeease lol)

and i know this has nothing to do with fluff but i made my new avatar using paint (i know, how basic of me)
it is too small, how can i enlarge it so it becomes clear?

(if you cant tell, its Kratos wearing Kharn's helmet and weilding his weapon. it says KRATOS : THE BETRAYER and has the World Eaters logo with the Omega symbol in it)

thanks!


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> could i ask for a better explanation? (pleeeeeease lol)


Sorry my bad :biggrin:

'...The chaos power can reclaim the power and independence it has given to its daemon children at any time, thus ensuring their loyalty. It is only through the loss of this power that a daemon can be truly destroyed...' - _Codex: Chaos Daemons 4th ed. Page 6-7_.

Now theoretically, if a daemon was somehow able to sustain it's own essence without dependence on it's particular patron god, then it would be able to obtain some form of independent existence without bearing an inherent, fixed loyalty to it's creator. An example of how this *may* be possible for the daemon is by obtaining an exclusive 'power-base'. For example if a daemon was able to secure a loyal body of worshippers with a warp presence significant enough (by being numerous enough for example) it could potentially sustain itself via the power it is granted by this 'power-base'.

That's just one example. Switching loyalties is also another option. By swearing the three oaths of the Iron Pact and dedicating itself to the _Forge of Souls_ a daemon will turn on it's patron if the _Forge_ is assaulted by that particular patron. This suggests that if the _Forge_ was assaulted and a daemon joined in it's defence against their own god, that god could not withdraw the daemon's essence, presumably because the _Forge_ would sustain it's essence instead.

That's my take on it anyway.


----------



## Serpion5

Haha! Fluff King! :biggrin: CotE has his true title at last! :good: 

In relation to daemons borne from a particular god, options are very slim, being that of the soulforge and the loyalty cult as the Fluff King said.

Did you consider possessing someone or something? I know that in one of the GK books a daemon possessed a machine network and sustained itself in the memory banks. In other cases, I know daemons have been bound. While it is never stated which loyalties a daemonhost has, it is assumable that being bound essentially isolates them from any former master`s influence. 

Or maybe not, who knows? :crazy:


----------



## Harriticus

More random questions time:

-Why didn't the births of Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle create such a catastrophe like Slaanesh's did?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Harriticus said:


> More random questions time:
> 
> -Why didn't the births of Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle create such a catastrophe like Slaanesh's did?


Quite simply because of the Eldar Empire. Slaanesh coalesced in the warp because of the increasing decadence and excess of the ancient Eldar, they became attuned and intertwined with one another. When Slaanesh gained enough energy to gain full divine-consciousness, it was through this connection with the Eldar that she devoured the heartland of the Eldar Empire and thus created the Eye of Terror. The reason for this had long been established as simply being Slaanesh devouring those that brought her into being to simply further increase her power.

However _The First Heretic_ adds a minor interesting spin on the events from chaos' perspective (unless it is merely lies) rather than the Eldars. It states that: 'They have given birth to a god. A god of pleasure and promise. Yet they feel no joy... These are the first moments of its life, and it wakes to find its own worshippers are abandoning it, out of ignorance and fear. This endless storm, this Eye of Terror, is the echo of its birth-cries.' (Page 289-90) - which seems to suggest that the Eldar were consumed and the Eye of Terror created because the Eldar abandoned Slaanesh in the moment of her ascendancy rather than simply because they had created her.

Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch were never simply attuned to a single race or species when they gained consciousness. That in itself could be the reason why their awakening never caused such devastation. The Eye of Terror consumed the ancient heart-land of the Eldar Empire, Slaanesh was able to cause such a thing because she was interwoven and attuned to the actual Eldar psyche. And the Eldar being highly attuned psychic individuals made the creation of Slaanesh more devastating in itself. We have no evidence to suggest that other gods were in a similar situation.

Or of course it could be that the other three chaos gods' attainment of consciousness did actually create a similar situation to Slaanesh's. Perhaps their birth-screams did create warp rifts, did consume countless souls, and did change the nature of the warp. But it was so long prior to Slaanesh's and the rise of Mankind onto the galactic stage that we simply don't know about such things.

Or it may be because that the rise of Slaanesh was presumably much quicker and sharper than the rise of the other gods, that the critical mass of her essence burst into realspace, rather than just developing more subtly in the warp. According to what source you use to determine how long the coalescing of Slaanesh took (in realspace terms), _Codex: Dark Eldar_ for example gives roughly ten thousand years as the time it took for the Eldar decadence to achieve dominance in it's society and for Slaanesh to be brought forward. _Codex: Necrons_ on the other hand implies that the War in Heaven (roughly sixty million years ago) was what initially thrown the warp into disarray and what began the rise of chaos. If these implications are correct and Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch began coalescing during the War in Heaven then they had much more time to achieve consciousness than Slaanesh did, which may also prove a factor. The Eldar's galactic dominance and highly attuned psychic nature must also be taken into account. The Eldar Empire was by far the most dominant galactic institution prior to the Fall and subsequent Imperial Great Crusade. The Eldar are also one of the most psychically attuned races in the galaxy. These two factors almost ensured that Slaanesh's rise to consciousness was must faster than the other gods, which may also explain why her birth created the largest permanent warp rift in the known galaxy - simply because of the ridiculously fast achievement of the critical mass of energy required to birth a major god.

Just some thoughts anyway.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Quick point of clarification- The Eye of Terror is the largest stable warp storm/rift, I don't think any rift is permanent.

The EoT has been open and stable for 10,000 years but in galactic terms that's basically nothing- for all we know the formation of the other Gods may have formed equally large storms but after dozens of thousands of years those rifts destabilised and collapsed, just like the EoT might do one day.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Baron Spikey said:


> Quick point of clarification- The Eye of Terror is the largest stable warp storm/rift, I don't think any rift is permanent.
> 
> The EoT has been open and stable for 10,000 years but in galactic terms that's basically nothing- for all we know the formation of the other Gods may have formed equally large storms but after dozens of thousands of years those rifts destabilised and collapsed, just like the EoT might do one day.


That is a possibility, as I noted that the rise of the other three gods could have brought about similar circumstances as Slaanesh's did, but humanity was simply unable to record or register such things (still being primitives on a single world). However some sources do note the Eye of Terror specifically as being _'permanent'_. Whether that is actually the case though is another matter, but you quite rightly brought that up.


----------



## Serpion5

Harriticus said:


> More random questions time:
> 
> -Why didn't the births of Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle create such a catastrophe like Slaanesh's did?


Basically what CotE said, also take into account that their representative powers were always present from the moment life existed. War, Death and Change followed the Old Ones everywhere as they shaped the galaxy to their whims and eliminated what they perceived as useless. From the sounds of it I do not perceive the Old Ones as being much for debauchery.

With that in mind, I would presume that the first three gods` ascendancy would have been far more subtle or far more turbulent that that of Slaanesh, or perhaps a mix. In any case, remember that the Old Ones were most likely in control at the time, and consciouss or not, the Chaos Gods at this stage would not have had the power base to be as big a problem as they are now. Especially with the Eldar Gods strolling around keeping things in order.

Imagine, if you will, a time long lost where Khorne was Khaine`s bitch. :laugh:



Baron Spikey said:


> Quick point of clarification- The Eye of Terror is the largest stable warp storm/rift, I don't think any rift is permanent.
> 
> The EoT has been open and stable for 10,000 years but in galactic terms that's basically nothing- for all we know the formation of the other Gods may have formed equally large storms but after dozens of thousands of years those rifts destabilised and collapsed, just like the EoT might do one day.


Yeah, possible, but isn`t it also said in the EoT codex that the Eye is actually steadily expanding? The Cadian Pylons are holding the Cadian gate relatively stable, but they are destroying themselves in the process.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> However some sources do note the Eye of Terror specifically as being _'permanent'_. Whether that is actually the case though is another matter, but you quite rightly brought that up.


Also this. (kiss arse)


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Quite simply because of the Eldar Empire. Slaanesh coalesced in the warp because of the increasing decadence and excess of the ancient Eldar, they became attuned and intertwined with one another. When Slaanesh gained enough energy to gain full divine-consciousness, it was through this connection with the Eldar that she devoured the heartland of the Eldar Empire and thus created the Eye of Terror. The reason for this had long been established as simply being Slaanesh devouring those that brought her into being to simply further increase her power.
> 
> However _The First Heretic_ adds a minor interesting spin on the events from chaos' perspective (unless it is merely lies) rather than the Eldars. It states that: 'They have given birth to a god. A god of pleasure and promise. Yet they feel no joy... These are the first moments of its life, and it wakes to find its own worshippers are abandoning it, out of ignorance and fear. This endless storm, this Eye of Terror, is the echo of its birth-cries.' (Page 289-90) - which seems to suggest that the Eldar were consumed and the Eye of Terror created because the Eldar abandoned Slaanesh in the moment of her ascendancy rather than simply because they had created her.
> 
> Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch were never simply attuned to a single race or species when they gained consciousness. That in itself could be the reason why their awakening never caused such devastation. The Eye of Terror consumed the ancient heart-land of the Eldar Empire, Slaanesh was able to cause such a thing because she was interwoven and attuned to the actual Eldar psyche. And the Eldar being highly attuned psychic individuals made the creation of Slaanesh more devastating in itself. We have no evidence to suggest that other gods were in a similar situation.
> 
> Or of course it could be that the other three chaos gods' attainment of consciousness did actually create a similar situation to Slaanesh's. Perhaps their birth-screams did create warp rifts, did consume countless souls, and did change the nature of the warp. But it was so long prior to Slaanesh's and the rise of Mankind onto the galactic stage that we simply don't know about such things.
> 
> Or it may be because that the rise of Slaanesh was presumably much quicker and sharper than the rise of the other gods, that the critical mass of her essence burst into realspace, rather than just developing more subtly in the warp. According to what source you use to determine how long the coalescing of Slaanesh took (in realspace terms), _Codex: Dark Eldar_ for example gives roughly ten thousand years as the time it took for the Eldar decadence to achieve dominance in it's society and for Slaanesh to be brought forward. _Codex: Necrons_ on the other hand implies that the War in Heaven (roughly sixty million years ago) was what initially thrown the warp into disarray and what began the rise of chaos. If these implications are correct and Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch began coalescing during the War in Heaven then they had much more time to achieve consciousness than Slaanesh did, which may also prove a factor. The Eldar's galactic dominance and highly attuned psychic nature must also be taken into account. The Eldar Empire was by far the most dominant galactic institution prior to the Fall and subsequent Imperial Great Crusade. The Eldar are also one of the most psychically attuned races in the galaxy. These two factors almost ensured that Slaanesh's rise to consciousness was must faster than the other gods, which may also explain why her birth created the largest permanent warp rift in the known galaxy - simply because of the ridiculously fast achievement of the critical mass of energy required to birth a major god.
> 
> Just some thoughts anyway.


wow, what an extensive response...

Here's a quick question: lets say that the Emperor did come back. I've heard that if he did the chaos gods would be destroyed. Would that mean new ones would take thir place? Would they represent similar emotions?


----------



## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> Here's a quick question: lets say that the Emperor did come back. I've heard that if he did the chaos gods would be destroyed. Would that mean new ones would take thir place? Would they represent similar emotions?


By this stage the Chaos Gods have reached the point where they`re simply too powerful to be removed from their positions. 

They`ve been feeding on the collective emotions of every race in the galaxy since the emergence of life itself.

One man, even the Emperor, cannot influence the Chaos Gods on that level. The only limitations the Chaos Gods have are their inability to directly influence realspace without massive energy expenditure. The Emperor made it even harder for them with hexagrammic wards and advanced gellar field technology during the crusade/heresy period, but that could not stave off mortal followers.

This whole Emperor destroying Chaos thing is just fanmade wishful thinking. Once his spirit is in the Warp, he`s on their terms unless the reincarnation theory proves true. Which I also doubt.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> By this stage the Chaos Gods have reached the point where they`re simply too powerful to be removed from their positions.
> 
> They`ve been feeding on the collective emotions of every race in the galaxy since the emergence of life itself.
> 
> One man, even the Emperor, cannot influence the Chaos Gods on that level. The only limitations the Chaos Gods have are their inability to directly influence realspace without massive energy expenditure. The Emperor made it even harder for them with hexagrammic wards and advanced gellar field technology during the crusade/heresy period, but that could not stave off mortal followers.
> 
> This whole Emperor destroying Chaos thing is just fanmade wishful thinking. Once his spirit is in the Warp, he`s on their terms unless the reincarnation theory proves true. Which I also doubt.


I see. It also said in First Heretic (possible spoilers not really) it said that he took powers/used their help to create the primarchs and they were taking back what was theirs. now i am sure Ingethel was stretching the truth a bit, not lying, but not giving the exact picture either. What did he mean though?


----------



## Serpion5

The exact details on this have always been a bit iffy. I`m not sure whether the Emperor asked the gods for knowledge, or whether he asked them for raw power to create the primarchs. All I know as a definite is that the Emperor used their help in exchange for delivering them the galaxy, a bargain the Emperor did not uphold.

Personally I doubt the gods are truly fixated on destroying everything, the Horus Heresy was more likely just getting back at the arsehole for weaseling out of the deal they made. :laugh:


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> The exact detais on this have always been a bit iffy. I`m not sure whether the Emperor asked the gods for knowledge, or whether he asked them for raw power to create the primarchs. All I know as a definite is that the Emperor used their help in exchange for delivering them the galaxy, a bargain the Emperor did not uphold.
> 
> Personally I doubt the gods are truly fixated on destroying everything, the Horus Heresy was more likely just getting back at the arsehole for weaseling out of the deal they made. :laugh:


Oh so is that the reson why the Emperor decrees that there is no religion? So that the gods could not get into teh hearts and minds of those that serve him?


----------



## xNoPityx

Androxine Vortex said:


> Oh so is that the reson why the Emperor decrees that there is no religion? So that the gods could not get into teh hearts and minds of those that serve him?


If that was the reason why then he would be idiotic to the extreme. Their has to be another more logical reason why he wouldn't tell anyone about chaos. He can't have thought that pretending they don't exist would make them go away.


----------



## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> Oh so is that the reson why the Emperor decrees that there is no religion? So that the gods could not get into teh hearts and minds of those that serve him?





xNoPityx said:


> If that was the reason why then he would be idiotic to the extreme. Their has to be another more logical reason why he wouldn't tell anyone about chaos. He can't have thought that pretending they don't exist would make them go away.


Even knowing about Chaos is planting the seeds of temptation. The Emperor`s hope was to eliminate all knowledge of them, convince everybody that they do not exist. 

What his ultimate goal was can only be guessed at. Whether he wanted to weaken them to the point where they could be destroyed, or simply starve them of worship will probably not be known anytime soon. But given the way they reacted it would seem they felt threatened or maybe just pissed at the Emperor for what he was doing.


----------



## archonkain

For the blood angels, what color power armor do their librarians wear? standard SM librarian blue? or are they in red? Thanks


----------



## Quozzo

Most chapter Librarians wear blue and All of the Blood Angels Librarians wear blue with their chapter badge on the left shoulder pad, the only exception i can think of is Mephiston who wears all red

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Librarian


----------



## archonkain

Thanks for the info


----------



## forkmaster

Blood Ravens shows that in original game the librarian wears blue but in Chaos Rising there is another and he is grey!


----------



## Serpion5

forkmaster said:


> Blood Ravens shows that in original game the librarian wears blue but in Chaos Rising there is another and he is grey!


Doesn`t necessarily mean anything. DoW games are not necessarily canon. Codex colours for a librarian are blue.


----------



## Ordo epitaphiorum

Speaking of the video games,
it's sometimes mentioned (especially in Soulstorm) that more Necrons spawn through captured survivors of the hostile group.

Is there a way that the souls of those people are "inserted" into "empty" Necron bodies? Or how should we understand those information mentioned before?


----------



## locustgate

As I understand necron pariahs are created from human pariahs.


----------



## aboytervigon

The recessive Pariah gene is found in 1 in a billion humans it creates a deep sense of hate or loathing to anyone in the vicinity. Which makes them even rarer considering they usually don't last to adulthood. They are "soulless" these rare humans are what become Pariahs the Necrons chop them up body and soul and reconstitute them into the living dead they are now which is why they don't have the Necron special rule.


----------



## Ordo epitaphiorum

And besides Pariahs, lets say normal Warriors, are there any ways to "stuff" a normal human soul into a fresh build necron body? Is that possible, or is the technology lost to do so? I always wondered if the Necrons could expand and, kinda like Borg, infect the living, let them become machines.


----------



## aboytervigon

I think its possible but there's no need the Necron's have the exact same numbers they did when there created anyway it would take a lot of power and knowledge that only a Necron lord would know.


----------



## Serpion5

Ordo epitaphiorum said:


> Speaking of the video games,
> it's sometimes mentioned (especially in Soulstorm) that more Necrons spawn through captured survivors of the hostile group.
> 
> Is there a way that the souls of those people are "inserted" into "empty" Necron bodies? Or how should we understand those information mentioned before?


No. Each Necron is comprised of the mind of an ancient necrontyr long since diminished and fades so that only the essence of their being still remains. The ability to "create" new necrons is in no way linked to capturing members of other species. The only situation that comes close is that of pariahs, detailed below.



aboytervigon said:


> The recessive Pariah gene is found in 1 in a billion humans it creates a deep sense of hate or loathing to anyone in the vicinity. Which makes them even rarer considering they usually don't last to adulthood. They are "soulless" these rare humans are what become Pariahs the Necrons chop them up body and soul and reconstitute them into the living dead they are now which is why they don't have the Necron special rule.


Not quite. Pariahs are created by the Deceiver in a similar manner to how the necrontyr became the necrons. However, based off their appearance, it is apparent thar pariahs are composed of flesh as well as metal, unlike their much older counterparts. This is presumably to take advantage of the pariah gene, which naturally wouldn`t translate into a full machine. :wink: 

This opens up a whole new range of as yet unanswered questions. For example, if flesh is required to maintain the pariah gene, wouldn`t that mean pariahs are technically alive? If so, do they choose to serve the star gods or are they brainwashed? 



Ordo epitaphiorum said:


> And besides Pariahs, lets say normal Warriors, are there any ways to "stuff" a normal human soul into a fresh build necron body? Is that possible, or is the technology lost to do so? I always wondered if the Necrons could expand and, kinda like Borg, infect the living, let them become machines.


The incorporation of pariahs seems to be the extent of this endeavour. It is unlikely that they would simply induct humans however for the sake of numbers.



aboytervigon said:


> I think its possible but there's no need the Necron's have the exact same numbers they did when there created anyway it would take a lot of power and knowledge that only a Necron lord would know.


Actually, their original numbers are somewhat diminished. Many tomb structures did not survive the sleep intact and have malfunctioned or simply failed. Likewise, many necron lords have taken a blow to their sanity, going loopy and believing themselves to be the gods. (_Apocalypse Reload_)

In any case, the exact extent of the necron forces is unknown for the time being, but they do not seem concerned in the slightest. Somewhat worrying? Or simply ignorance/arrogance on their part?


----------



## D-A-C

Sorry if this question is a bit random (ha-ha-ho-ho)

Anyway I was just curious if there is any kind of information about :

'Constanze the Prophetess, burned as a Heretic 687.M38'

I am currently writing a story and was thinking it would be cool to have (her?) included as a kind of extended cameo, but with a serious enough part in terms of importance.

Basically kind of like a .... the word escapes me at the moment ... someone who can both see into the futures contained within the warp as well as commune with the Dark Gods. 

The timeline for my story is very open, so I was thinking of having her take part or instagate a minor heresy (only several systems large!!) and the Chaos Lord of my story could visit her.

So basically I need three things.

1. Any info on Constanze?

2. How do dates work in 40k, i.e. what is 687.M38

3. What do you think of including her ... a big no no or pretty cool?


----------



## Boc

2. The dates work like two decimals. Most imperial calendar dates have 6 digits, the first 3 numbers being the date signifier and the last 3 numbers being the year signifier. In the example given, it is the 687th year of the 38th millenium. With the day, Green River from the Black Library Bolthole did a detailed by-decimal point breakdown so you know exactly how long and on what days of our year a certain Imperial date falls on, found here.

3. I think it's a good idea, to extrapolate upon barely hinted at instances in codexes. Hell, it's how some of the Space Marine Battles books are done haha.


----------



## Raging Platipus

I have a question, the Adetpus Mechanicus pay honors to machine spirits, but since the Void-dragon is on mars, wouldn't they not exist anywhere else? Because I've heard when a ships Plasma Reactor isn't payed honors it explodes. But being in space and all means it's not on mars.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I understand that the World eaters split into smaller warbands and opperate in their own seperate ways. Do they still call themselves World Eaters? And what is Kharn's warband called?


And please dont forget about Raging Platipus, his question did get answered (Above me)


----------



## ThatOtherGuy

Okiedokie, I have a few questions myself as well:

What is the height of a bloodthirster? A Keeper of Secrets? A Great Unclean One? A Lord of Change?


----------



## locustgate

Raging Platipus said:


> I have a question, the Adetpus Mechanicus pay honors to machine spirits, but since the Void-dragon is on mars, wouldn't they not exist anywhere else? Because I've heard when a ships Plasma Reactor isn't payed honors it explodes. But being in space and all means it's not on mars.


The mech 'honors' are also maintenance routines.



Androxine Vortex said:


> I understand that the World eaters split into smaller warbands and opperate in their own seperate ways. Do they still call themselves World Eaters? And what is Kharn's warband called?
> 
> 
> And please dont forget about Raging Platipus, his question did get answered (Above me)


Since the codex still calls them World Eaters I would say yes.



ThatOtherGuy said:


> Okiedokie, I have a few questions myself as well:
> 
> What is the height of a bloodthirster? A Keeper of Secrets? A Great Unclean One? A Lord of Change?


Daemons have no height and can make themselves what ever size they want.

P.S. Im not an expert.


----------



## Emet Paladin of Truth

Serpion5 said:


> they do not seem concerned in the slightest. Somewhat worrying? Or simply ignorance/arrogance on their part?


can't be worried if you don't have emotions.

space zombies don't care how many more space zombies there are, they just want to eat space brains.


----------



## Serpion5

Raging Platipus said:


> I have a question, the Adetpus Mechanicus pay honors to machine spirits, but since the Void-dragon is on mars, wouldn't they not exist anywhere else? Because I've heard when a ships Plasma Reactor isn't payed honors it explodes. But being in space and all means it's not on mars.


The machine spirit is not the same as the machine god. The God is referred to as either the machine facet of the Emperor or the C`tan Void Dragon, depending on which sect of the Adeptus Mechanicus you consider.

The Void Dragon is indeed on Mars, but the machine spirit simply refers to the machine itself, and appeasing its spirit consists primarily of maintenance and saying nice things about it. 



Androxine Vortex said:


> I understand that the World eaters split into smaller warbands and opperate in their own seperate ways. Do they still call themselves World Eaters? And what is Kharn's warband called?
> 
> 
> And please dont forget about Raging Platipus, his question did get answered (Above me)


They are all still World Eaters. And I am not aware of Kharn belonging to any fixed warband. Our Chaotic Fluff King might know better than me though.



ThatOtherGuy said:


> Okiedokie, I have a few questions myself as well:
> 
> What is the height of a bloodthirster? A Keeper of Secrets? A Great Unclean One? A Lord of Change?


Whatever they want. I have read of twelve foot bloodthirsters and others much much bigger. 

I also read of a Lord of Change some several hundred metres tall. :shok:



Emet said:


> can't be worried if you don't have emotions.
> 
> space zombies don't care how many more space zombies there are, they just want to eat space brains.


Fantastic. :clapping:


----------



## Raging Platipus

Ahh, thanks. Also... I've always wonderd How does a power fist work compared to a powersword? Because the way they work is described exactly the same. But have radicly different affects. Same goes for Lightning claw Thunder hammer.


----------



## Serpion5

Raging Platipus said:


> Ahh, thanks. Also... I've always wonderd How does a power fist work compared to a powersword? Because the way they work is described exactly the same. But have radicly different affects. Same goes for Lightning claw Thunder hammer.


A power weapon is not so different to a lightning claw, all that changes is the number of blades being used. 

In terms of powerfist and thunder hammer, I believe the primary difference is mass. I am not sure of the exact inner workings of a powerfist, but I believe the aspect of increased strength is based of a hydraulic (or similar) system that emulates and enhances a user`s physical strength.

Technically, a powerfist works by crushing the enemy, not by punching or swinging a backhand strike or anything like that. Much like the ork equivalent (power klaw), a powerfist is at its most lethal when it has something in its grasp.

And a thunder hammer, much like any warhammer, has a lot of weight backed up by an energy field. And these are for the most part wielded by astartes.

Also keep in mind that citadel models and their weapons are generally not to scale.


----------



## locustgate

Who are the Steel legion based off of?


----------



## Serpion5

I`d never considered it, but they sort of resemble the Krieg regiment, who in turn resemble a taboo topic on Heresy. 

...


----------



## chromedog

locustgate said:


> Who are the Steel legion based off of?


Partially based on German WWII Wehrmacht (regular army) mechanised troops. As opposed to the black with red armband guys.


----------



## AgentOrange24

How did ships get around during the Great Crusade?

The Emperor isn't sitting around, directing his power into providing a "light" for ships to navigate by, yet they seem to be getting around just fine.

Same goes for the Dark Age of Tech. 

We're told quite a few times that without the Emperor on the throne, the Imperium would immediately crumble, but that wasn't the case 10,000 years prior. Or before that.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

AgentOrange24 said:


> How did ships get around during the Great Crusade?
> 
> The Emperor isn't sitting around, directing his power into providing a "light" for ships to navigate by, yet they seem to be getting around just fine.


No, but then the Emperor doesn't and never has projected the psychic beacon that is the Astronomican. He guides it, but doesn't generate it. That honour goes to the Adeptus Astronomica. Without the Emperor though the Astronomican's psychic signal would presumably be worthless for navigational purposes.

So during the Great Crusade the Emperor still guided the beacon through warpspace and established it as a navigational beacon, he just wasn't on the Golden Throne.



AgentOrange24 said:


> Same goes for the Dark Age of Tech.


The Dark Age of Technology is different. Considering Navigators were not born until the third Age of Technology, and Humanity had already spread throughout the galaxy prior to this, it's safe to assume that there was some alternative method of navigation to the Astronomican. Likely just some form of technology that was lost during the Age of Stife is my guess.


----------



## AgentOrange24

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> No, but then the Emperor doesn't and never has projected the psychic beacon that is the Astronomican. He guides it, but doesn't generate it. That honour goes to the Adeptus Astronomica. Without the Emperor though the Astronomican's psychic signal would presumably be worthless for navigational purposes.
> 
> So during the Great Crusade the Emperor still guided the beacon through warpspace and established it as a navigational beacon, he just wasn't on the Golden Throne.
> 
> 
> 
> The Dark Age of Technology is different. Considering Navigators were not born until the third Age of Technology, and Humanity had already spread throughout the galaxy prior to this, it's safe to assume that there was some alternative method of navigation to the Astronomican. Likely just some form of technology that was lost during the Age of Stife is my guess.


Hmmm..Seems to make sense. Thanks.

So while the Emperor was uhh... "alive"? He could guide the beacon while just going about his business?

Also, if I may pester you once more: Do we have a rough timeline of the Emperor's (and others, Dorn and the like) actions from the time he destroyed Horus, to the time he was placed on life support? That time period has been one of great interest to me.


----------



## Serpion5

I`m pretty sure the Emperor`s ascendancy to the Golden Throne was almost immediately following the fight with Horus. Given that the Emperor was dying and had barely enough effort to speak it is a pretty safe assumption that the transference happened within a day or two at most.

And yes, the Emperor was perfectly capable of guiding the Astronomicon at all times.


----------



## forkmaster

Serpion5 said:


> Doesn`t necessarily mean anything. DoW games are not necessarily canon. Codex colours for a librarian are blue.


Well they wouldnt go by the codex but there are several Chapters that doesnt follow the codex. Space Wolves for example really love to bend the rules to their benefit. Black Templars as well.

My question is, in what manner did the Primarchs die/disappear? And take the story about the loyal ones as most of the Traitor Primarchs are alive or disappeared (speaking of Alpharius and Fulgrim).

Ferrus Manus died first, then we know Sanguinius had his onboard with Horus. After that Im kinda blank. I know Alpharius disappeared before Roubute died/was mortally wounded, as them 2 fought each other. And you dont have to ta


----------



## aboytervigon

The big bad wolf went into the eye of terror for some reason probably to blow some daemon houses down.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Lion El'Jonson- sleeping/stasis in the heart of The Rock, unbeknownst to the DA themselves.

Jaghatai Khan- disappeared into the webway with his personal company of veterans in pursuit of a DE Lord who'd captured tribesmen from his homeworld.

Leman Russ- disappeared into the Eye of Terror for one reason or another (there are contradictory tales relating to his reasons).

Rogal Dorn- killed holding back the first major Chaos incursion from the EoT in order for the Imperial Navy to have time to get their arses to Cadia.

Sanguinius- killed by Horus.

Ferrus Manus- killed by Fulgrim.

Roboute Guilliman- killed by Fulgrim (or if you want he's frozen a heart beat from death).

Vulkan- fuck knows.

Corax- disappeared into the EoT (alone!) wracked with guilt.


----------



## forkmaster

Baron Spikey said:


> Lion El'Jonson- sleeping/stasis in the heart of The Rock, unbeknownst to the DA themselves.
> 
> Jaghatai Khan- disappeared into the webway with his personal company of veterans in pursuit of a DE Lord who'd captured tribesmen from his homeworld.
> 
> Leman Russ- disappeared into the Eye of Terror for one reason or another (there are contradictory tales relating to his reasons).
> 
> Rogal Dorn- killed holding back the first major Chaos incursion from the EoT in order for the Imperial Navy to have time to get their arses to Cadia.
> 
> Sanguinius- killed by Horus.
> 
> Ferrus Manus- killed by Fulgrim.
> 
> Roboute Guilliman- killed by Fulgrim (or if you want he's frozen a heart beat from death).
> 
> Vulkan- fuck knows.
> 
> Corax- disappeared into the EoT (alone!) wracked with guilt.


Oh you missunderstood me, I know how they got killed or disappeared. But I wanted to know when, in which order that happened. But thanks for the answer I got. k:


----------



## Baron Spikey

forkmaster said:


> Oh you missunderstood me, I know how they got killed or disappeared. But I wanted to know when, in which order that happened. But thanks for the answer I got. k:


Oh ok that won't be too difficult(ish):

*Ferrus Manus* (killed by Fulgrim on Isstvan V)

*Sanguinius* (killed by Horus at the conclusion of the Siege of Terra)

*Lion El'Jonson* (disappeared prior to the Legion breakup)

*Leman Russ* (left on the first celebration of the Emperor's Ascension 0-1 yrs after the Legion breakup)
*
Corax* (left 1 year after the Legion breakup)

*Rogal Dorn* (killed shortly after Corax disappeared)
*
Jaghatai Khan* (disappeared 70 years after the Legion breakup)

*Roboute Guilliman* (killed 100 years after the Legion breakup)

Vulkan disappeared sometime between the disappearance of Lion El'Jonson and Rogal Dorn.


Edit: There appears to be, seemingly, contradictory info regarding when Dorn disappeared in the IA: Imperial Fists article (with the reference I've made and another saying he took the IF chapter into seclusion for 20 years) but I hold to the not unreasonable assumption that the break up of the Legions into Chapters took a great deal of time- and that Dorn was still killed after Corax disappeared and before the Khan pursued the DE into the Webway.


----------



## forkmaster

Baron Spikey said:


> Oh ok that won't be too difficult(ish):
> 
> *Ferrus Manus* (killed by Fulgrim on Isstvan V)
> 
> *Sanguinius* (killed by Horus at the conclusion of the Siege of Terra)
> 
> *Lion El'Jonson* (disappeared prior to the Legion breakup)
> 
> *Leman Russ* (left on the first celebration of the Emperor's Ascension 0-1 yrs after the Legion breakup)
> *
> Corax* (left 1 year after the Legion breakup)
> 
> *Rogal Dorn* (killed shortly after Corax disappeared)
> *
> Jaghatai Khan* (disappeared 70 years after the Legion breakup)
> 
> *Roboute Guilliman* (killed 100 years after the Legion breakup)
> 
> Vulkan disappeared sometime between the disappearance of Lion El'Jonson and Rogal Dorn.
> 
> 
> Edit: There appears to be, seemingly, contradictory info regarding when Dorn disappeared in the IA: Imperial Fists article (with the reference I've made and another saying he took the IF chapter into seclusion for 20 years) but I hold to the not unreasonable assumption that the break up of the Legions into Chapters took a great deal of time- and that Dorn was still killed after Corax disappeared and before the Khan pursued the DE into the Webway.


Oh why thank you, this is exactly what I wanted to know about. :grin: The part about Dorn Ive heard before is contradictory. Thats was perhas the only part I knew a little about. But thank you.


----------



## Baron Spikey

I actually got to ruminating on the disappearance of the Primarchs and it occured to me that in a rather sad way Lorgar was correct in his belief that Guilliman was a sort of heir to the Emperor (even if it was unfortunate chance that led to such an appointment).

Both Horus and Roboute had something in common, for decades they were the only Primarchs. When Horus Lupercal was found by the Emperor he spent *30 *years crusading alongside his father until the next Primarch was discovered, and after the restructuring of the Imperium (which from the various Index Astartes articles seems to have taken a great deal of time, ref. IA: Imperial Fists & Raven Guard) Roboute Guilliman was eventually left as the only surviving Primarch for- *30* years!

Both Primarchs were paragons of nobility and pragmatism, both were the espoused heirs apparent at one time or another, both were slain at the hands of their kin, and both have murky tales to do with a resurrection that is impossible (Horus being cloned, Guilliman healing within a bubble of frozen time)- the symmetry of it is morbid but in a way satisfying.


_This was brought to you from weird mind of Baron Spikey_


----------



## Serpion5

Silly Baron! That`s not a random question, that`s a random ramble! :laugh:

Good catch though...


In the spirit of the thread, and in an effort to expand upon my lacking Imperial knowledge, I have a question. The second question I think I have ever asked...


When an astartes decides to become a specialised asartes (apothecary, techmarine etc.) how does he go about it? Is it simply a matter of asking his supervisor for reassignment or does he need to be chosen?


----------



## Baron Spikey

Serpion5 said:


> In the spirit of the thread, and in an effort to expand upon my lacking Imperial knowledge, I have a question. The second question I think I have ever asked...
> 
> 
> When an astartes decides to become a specialised asartes (apothecary, techmarine etc.) how does he go about it? Is it simply a matter of asking his supervisor for reassignment or does he need to be chosen?


As always the specifics will vary from Chapter to Chapter but usually it's a case of the Battle-Brother demonstrating some sort of innate talent in a certain field, so I imagine all of a Chapter's brethren will be in a position at one time or another where their suitability for various specilisations can be judged.

I've not heard of a Marine specifically requesting to become an Apothecary or Techmarine or whatever but it's entirely plausible that he could submit a request so that his suitability could be ascertained.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

How large is the beam that fires out of a lascanon? I'm guessing its large enough to almost fully engulf a normal sized man.


----------



## Serpion5

Possibly a little smaller than the inside of the barrel. However a laser by definition does not fan out like a normal beam of light, so if the barrel of a las weapon is four inches across or whatever inside, I would assume the beam to be the same width.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> Possibly a little smaller than the inside of the barrel. However a laser by definition does not fan out like a normal beam of light, so if the barrel of a las weapon is four inches across or whatever inside, I would assume the beam to be the same width.


And what about lasweapons from infantry and tanks? i always thought that the lascannons on a tank were pretty big, like i said above.


----------



## Serpion5

They would be. Like I said, the width of the barrel itself would be a good indicator of the width of the beam. 

Lasweapons are simply focused energy bursts following the pattern of a laser (similar but not the exact same) so the same principles would apply.


----------



## Emet Paladin of Truth

Serpion5 said:


> a laser by definition does not fan out like a normal beam of light.


you forget: guardsman lasguns == flashlights


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> They would be. Like I said, the width of the barrel itself would be a good indicator of the width of the beam.
> 
> Lasweapons are simply focused energy bursts following the pattern of a laser (similar but not the exact same) so the same principles would apply.


Let me try again: how large would a normal lascannon be on a regular tank? 
(You are making me defeat the purpose of my thread, your questions should only be answered in like one or two posts!!!:laugh


----------



## Baron Spikey

Androxine Vortex said:


> Let me try again: how large would a normal lascannon be on a regular tank?
> (You are making me defeat the purpose of my thread, your questions should only be answered in like one or two posts!!!:laugh


Extremely similar in size to that of a man-portable one, they might use a different Make or Pattern on some vehicles but they're usually roughly the same size.


----------



## Serpion5

Okay Vortex, your first question:



Androxine Vortex said:


> How large is the beam that fires out of a lascanon? I'm guessing its large enough to almost fully engulf a normal sized man.


Your second question, I took in the same context as the first:



Androxine Vortex said:


> And what about lasweapons from infantry and tanks? i always thought that the lascannons on a tank were pretty big, like i said above.


Only now did you specify the weapon itself:



Androxine Vortex said:


> Let me try again: how large would a normal lascannon be on a regular tank?
> (You are making me defeat the purpose of my thread, your questions should only be answered in like one or two posts!!!:laugh


See why there was confusion? Anyway, Baron has the answer. Any difference in size would only be a structural thing, the other bits would stay the same. Only when it`s mounted on a structure (lile the Icarus Pattern) can you do fancy stuff like making the barrel longer.

Sorry for that. :fool:



Emet said:


> you forget: guardsman lasguns == flashlights


Yeah, joke aside, lasguns outdo most modern rifles for punch.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> Okay Vortex, your first question:
> 
> 
> 
> Your second question, I took in the same context as the first:
> 
> 
> 
> Only now did you specify the weapon itself:
> 
> 
> 
> See why there was confusion? Anyway, Baron has the answer. Any difference in size would only be a structural thing, the other bits would stay the same. Only when it`s mounted on a structure (lile the Icarus Pattern) can you do fancy stuff like making the barrel longer.
> 
> Sorry for that. :fool:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, joke aside, lasguns outdo most modern rifles for punch.


no it's alright, i was kidding:laugh:


----------



## locustgate

When did the Tau first meet the imperium, after they reemerged from being cut off.
I remeber it was something like a tau explorer ship entered imp space and it was blown to the warp.


----------



## Serpion5

Roughly a century before the Domocles Gulf Crusade. I don`t have the date close to hand, but I remember that the Administratum took ages to register the tau and it was about a hundred years after their rediscovery that the Imperium launced their first ill fated attempt to take on the tau military in earnest. 

Sorry for vague timeframe, but the BT codex should have some info if the tau `dex doesn`t, as they were pretty major players in that campaign.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I am pretty sure that the Omnisiah is indeed a C'tan Void Dragon (i don't know too much about it, so i believe this is correct)

What do Dark Mechanicum members feel about their Machine-God? Do they still worship it or not? And how does this effect the Iron Warriors? (they practically devout themselves to technology)


----------



## forkmaster

Baron Spikey said:


> As always the specifics will vary from Chapter to Chapter but usually it's a case of the Battle-Brother demonstrating some sort of innate talent in a certain field, so I imagine all of a Chapter's brethren will be in a position at one time or another where their suitability for various specilisations can be judged.
> 
> I've not heard of a Marine specifically requesting to become an Apothecary or Techmarine or whatever but it's entirely plausible that he could submit a request so that his suitability could be ascertained.


As my understanding from The First Herectic, the battle-brothers may be given the chance to go into special training if they so want to, talking about Argel Tal becoming a Chaplain, but as you said, no records of Astartes requesting it!


----------



## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> I am pretty sure that the Omnisiah is indeed a C'tan Void Dragon (i don't know too much about it, so i believe this is correct)
> 
> What do Dark Mechanicum members feel about their Machine-God? Do they still worship it or not? And how does this effect the Iron Warriors? (they practically devout themselves to technology)


There is only one Void Dragon, the one the Emperor subdued to create the Mechanicus. Rather than repeat myself for the billionth time, check the index thread and see if you can find a link to a relevant thread, it will be mentioned in greater detail elsewhere. Failing that, drop me a line and I`ll link you to the relevant data. 

The Dark Mechanicum feel that Chaos is as freeing to the machine spirit as it is to the human soul. In reality though, they are giving their machines over to daemonic possession. 

Previous Chaos Codex I believe, can`t confirm as I haven`t read the thing in years and don`t know where I`ve stashed it.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> There is only one Void Dragon, the one the Emperor subdued to create the Mechanicus. Rather than repeat myself for the billionth time, check the index thread and see if you can find a link to a relevant thread, it will be mentioned in greater detail elsewhere. Failing that, drop me a line and I`ll link you to the relevant data.
> 
> The Dark Mechanicum feel that Chaos is as freeing to the machine spirit as it is to the human soul. In reality though, they are giving their machines over to daemonic possession.
> 
> Previous Chaos Codex I believe, can`t confirm as I haven`t read the thing in years and don`t know where I`ve stashed it.


So its safe to say that they still worship the Machine God?


----------



## Serpion5

No, the Dark Mechanicum`s alleigance is to Chaos. There isn`t a lot of specific info that I`m aware of, but I recall a vague reference in an older codex (possibly the old CSM) which speaks of casting out the machine spirit to be replaced with a daemonic version, but this may only apply to possessed vehicles...

CotE would probably know more. Maybe. :grin:


----------



## Raging Platipus

Uhmm... Before the Heresy (from what I understand) Space wolves had 80,000. But now they have 1300?! Even with the 13th company dissapearing, and the founding chapter it dosn't quite add up.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Raging Platipus said:


> Uhmm... Before the Heresy (from what I understand) Space wolves had 80,000. But now they have 1300?! Even with the 13th company dissapearing, and the founding chapter it dosn't quite add up.


1. The Heresy, specifically the Burning of Prospero and them getting ambushed and kicked all over the place by the Alpha Legion, accounts for a large number of their losses.

2. The Scouring also resulted in serious losses for the Space Wolves Legion (as well as every other Legion, especially the Ultramarines).

3. The restructuring of the Imperium resulted in the breakup of Legions into Chapters- now whilst the Space Wolves don't follow the dictates of the Codex (and we're never instructed to do so) they did split what little remained of the Legion into 2 Chapters; the Space Wolves and Wolf Brothers (on this they had no option).


There you go: that's why they have far, far fewer numbers- though I'm not sure where you got the figure 1,300 from?


----------



## Raging Platipus

They have 13 companys. Or so Lex tells me...But it's been known to to be wrong quite often.


----------



## Raging Platipus

And Magnus, is he actually Cyclopean (Born with one eye) or was he mutilated? I aslo thought that he was mutilated, then he mutated to have only one. It's unclear.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Raging Platipus said:


> They have 13 companys. Or so Lex tells me...But it's been known to to be wrong quite often.


Yes there are 13 companies, technically since 1 company (the 13th) is not really a part of the Chapter, but that doesn't mean they're all 100 strong.

Ragnar's Great Company for instance is the 2nd largest with 200 warriors.


----------



## Raging Platipus

Thanks Baron, it was unclear


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Raging Platipus said:


> And Magnus, is he actually Cyclopean (Born with one eye) or was he mutilated? I aslo thought that he was mutilated, then he mutated to have only one. It's unclear.


This could be possible spoilers to A Thousand Sons (not sure if it explained this in the book)

From what I understand, he kind of "sold himself" for knowledge and in doing so he gave away his one eye to the warp or something like that.

This is sort of like the Norse myth of Odin hanging from Ydrassil, The World Tree for seven days. He sacrificed his eye to pull the language of the runes out from the void and gave mankind language (he sacrificed a part of him for greater understanding)

I always find it ironic that Magnus wsa killed by Leman Russ, since he is based on Norse myth (and it is also ironic that the name Magnus was the name of a very powerful Viking King)


----------



## Raging Platipus

Thanks, that really cleared things up


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Raging Platipus said:


> And Magnus, is he actually Cyclopean (Born with one eye) or was he mutilated? I aslo thought that he was mutilated, then he mutated to have only one. It's unclear.


The lore surrounding Magnus' cyclopean nature has varied and changed a fair bit, and is still contradictory among different sources.

Spoilers for _A Thousand Sons_:



The latest source to tackle the issue is _A Thousand Sons_. It explains that Magnus gave up his eye in a bargain with the chaos power Tzeentch in order to save his Legion from uncontrolled mutation.

All that remains where his one eye should be now, is scar tissue.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Do the parent Astartes going into the new Chapter name the new Chapter and how it operates or do any of the new recruits have any say in it? I'm pretty sure the "parents" enforce their traditions and everything but I didn't know how the Chapter gets named and stuff like that.


----------



## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> Do the parent Astartes going into the new Chapter name the new Chapter and how it operates or do any of the new recruits have any say in it? I'm pretty sure the "parents" enforce their traditions and everything but I didn't know how the Chapter gets named and stuff like that.


Baron` might know more, but I think it would depend on the parent chapter more than anything. I know there are a lot of chapters descended from the ultramarines, but not all of them are as strict adherents to the codex astartes as the boys in blue are. In _Warriors of Ultramar,_ we see a prime example of this in the Mortifactors chapter, whose blood involved rituals and reverence of the dead is more in line with the occult than the noble teachings of Guilleman. 

With that in mind actually, it would seem possible that the new chapter themselves will decide their own traditions and rituals over time. 

My take.


----------



## kwak76

If I remember reading lexicanum the nature of Tau cannot be corrupted by Chaos. I imagine other xenos can be corrupted by chaos.

I think of the Orks. Orks love to fight. Why not have Orks become followers of Khorne ? is it because Orks belief in their own war God prevents Chaos to corrupt them ? Sorry I'm new to this if there are corrupted Orks I haven't read any yet in BL literature.

If Tyranids are connected by the Hive mind which is one huge psychic mind, shouldn't this potential lead the hive mind to be corrupted ?


----------



## Serpion5

kwak76 said:


> If I remember reading lexicanum the nature of Tau cannot be corrupted by Chaos. I imagine other xenos can be corrupted by chaos.
> 
> I think of the Orks. Orks love to fight. Why not have Orks become followers of Khorne ? is it because Orks belief in their own war God prevents Chaos to corrupt them ? Sorry I'm new to this if there are corrupted Orks I haven't read any yet in BL literature.
> 
> If Tyranids are connected by the Hive mind which is one huge psychic mind, shouldn't this potential lead the hive mind to be corrupted ?


Tau can be corrupted technically. They have a very faint presence in the warp, and as such are far less susceptible than other races, but susceptible nonetheless. That said, I have not read or heard of any instances concerning 'Chaos Tau.'

Orks would never follow Khorne. They have their own deities Gork (fighty but kunnin`) and Mork (kunnin` but fighty). These two gods epitomise every detail of ork culture. Though they can be physically corrupted, worship of Chaos is a completely foreign concept to them and would, if anything, subtract from their strengths rather than add. 

Tyranids likewise are of a completely alien mindset, concepts of loyalty and worship are incomprehensible to them (though it would seem they have learned to exploit it in others). They generate their own psionic equivalent to a "god," in the form of the Hive mind which perfectly embodies their race`s drives and needs. Much like the orks, service to a Chaos God would take away from them rather than aid them.


----------



## Viscount Vash

kwak76 said:


> If I remember reading lexicanum the nature of Tau cannot be corrupted by Chaos. I imagine other xenos can be corrupted by chaos.
> 
> I think of the Orks. Orks love to fight. Why not have Orks become followers of Khorne ? is it because Orks belief in their own war God prevents Chaos to corrupt them ? Sorry I'm new to this if there are corrupted Orks I haven't read any yet in BL literature.


Pretty much how I understand it, that said Orks might ally with Chaos forces for the chance of some Krumping.




kwak76 said:


> If Tyranids are connected by the Hive mind which is one huge psychic mind, shouldn't this potential lead the hive mind to be corrupted ?


The key word here is corrupted, Chaos corrupts by offering something that the individual lusts after (often without the individual knowing its happening). Chaos has nothing to offer the Hive Mind as its after DNA and replication of itself,not abstract concepts such as power, pride etc.

Genestealer Cults have been subverted to Chaos but they have a human element and are of course not connected to the Hive Mind when it happens.
(There where rules for this years ago allowing Chaos to take Genestealers, amusingly if you were playing against Nids the stealers would swap sides and turn on the Chaos army, nasty stuff. Also there was a random chance of the Hive Mind hearing the Cults pyskic beacon and a Nid army turning up on a random table edge if you have a Tyranid player handy. Most amusing and nasty).


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> Baron` might know more, but I think it would depend on the parent chapter more than anything. I know there are a lot of chapters descended from the ultramarines, but not all of them are as strict adherents to the codex astartes as the boys in blue are. In _Warriors of Ultramar,_ we see a prime example of this in the Mortifactors chapter, whose blood involved rituals and reverence of the dead is more in line with the occult than the noble teachings of Guilleman.
> 
> With that in mind actually, it would seem possible that the new chapter themselves will decide their own traditions and rituals over time.
> 
> My take.


Would the parent chapter be the ones to name the new one?


----------



## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> Would the parent chapter be the ones to name the new one?


Again, with a name like Mortifactors, it would be my impression that the new chapter decides their own destiny in all regards. The Ultramarines celebrate honour and life, a far cry from the deathly traditions of the Mortifactors. Even that name suggests an air of death, so I imagine it would be their own idea.

Once again though, I must point out that this is only based on my own judgement. Other descendants of the UM such as the Sons of Guilleman chapter seem to be far more closely linked to the teachings of their primarch than others. 

It may have something to do with whether or not the descendant chapter comes directly from the parent legion or a another founding.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I suppose it all depends on the Legion but when Chaos Legions divide into warbands do they tend to keep their colors or change them?


----------



## Serpion5

I guess that would depend on how "permanent" the seperation was and whether the "leader" has any sense of loyalty to the legion, or if he would rather make his own name in history. It could go either way.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

If Tzeentch is depicted as a serpent, why is he asociated with birds so much?


----------



## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> If Tzeentch is depicted as a serpent, why is he asociated with birds so much?


Why _isn`t_ he associated with birds. 

Seriously I don`t know. :laugh:


----------



## locustgate

Androxine Vortex said:


> If Tzeentch is depicted as a serpent, why is he associated with birds so much?


Cause he's Tzeentch a cat and bear hugging makes more sense.


----------



## Emet Paladin of Truth

ok: this sort of goes with the "who will ultimately win in the 40k fluff" threads out there

I invariably cite Tau tech as eventually coming out on top- the second they get a hold of some old-earth artefacts it's over

well, some more research into the fluff says it might already _be_ over.

witness: the manta.

everyone knows the manta is the "Tau titan-" the closest thing Tau have to a Titan. what they might not know is that the Manta is a drop-ship- every cadre has one.

soo... why aren't tau just going "Manta rush?"

even if you claim Mantas aren't _that_ common, battlefleet gothic shows they're at least common enough to use as fighters.- if SMs can spare a drop pod, Tau can spare a Manta.

whatever way you slice it, Tau mantas outnumber Imperial titans by a lot- and are being mass-produced.

take _that_ SMs! XD


----------



## Baron Spikey

They can be used as fighters, great. But other races (including the Imperium) have better fighters, plus the Tau Navy is not awe inspiring so the Mantas have to reach a planet with the odds stacked against them.

More of them than Titans? I wouldn't necessarily have thought so, the Tau Empire is pretty small in the grand scheme of things with an extremely low population when compared to a section of the Imperium of a similar size (a Hive World has a greater population than an entire Sector of the Tau Empire). So there is probably a higher density of Mantas but in pure numbers I'd say the thousands of Titans aren't exactly going to be crying over their pints of motor oil at the 'vast' outnumbering.


But lets just say Mantas are the premier fighter/drop ship- well compared to the Imperium or Eldar it would be like us taking 18th century warships that could launch F-22s against a modern day American Battlegroup equipped with WW2 fighters (again I still think the Imperium has fighters at least as good as the Manta, and millions more of them, whilst the Eldar blows both races away).


----------



## Serpion5

Tau mantas are fantastic, but remember their versatility is a curse. So you can use them as fighters? Great but then you`re not transporting much are you? 
Carrying a cadre? No time for a dogfight. 

Imperial titans are far more common and better able to dominate the battlefield. Take out a manta`s engines, it`s gone. Take out a titan`s legs, it simply becomes a turret.  

The eldar surpass this, with specialised vehicles extremely well adapted to their roles and all in support of one another. 

Then you have the necrons, where even a single ship means awesome pwnage.


----------



## mpomnibus

Do necrons even have titans? because in that book when ciaphas cain fights them and the orks, one gargant took out 4 of those pyramids. the ork titan only took a leg wound sooo if that is the best land weapon that the necrons have then damn doesn't look good for necrons :bye:


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Do Astartes and Imperial Guard still fight side by side? I'm guessing yes but in what numbers? And could certain IG be specifically asigned to one Chapter? 

And don't forget to answer mpomnibus's question above me! :biggrin:


----------



## Serpion5

mpomnibus said:


> Do necrons even have titans? because in that book when ciaphas cain fights them and the orks, one gargant took out 4 of those pyramids. the ork titan only took a leg wound sooo if that is the best land weapon that the necrons have then damn doesn't look good for necrons :bye:


The only necron super heavy recorded to date is the Gauss Pylon, a defensive turret capable of destroying titans and aircraft quite easily as well as defending itself at close range.

The Gargant in question was in worse shape than you say; it had also lost its primary weapon and a good chunk of its other armaments as well. Gargants are the cream of ork super heavies, rivalling Reaver titans and even Warlords. For four Necron Monoliths to have inflicted such damage is a remarkable testament to the necron`s technology. 



Androxine Vortex said:


> Do Astartes and Imperial Guard still fight side by side? I'm guessing yes but in what numbers? And could certain IG be specifically asigned to one Chapter?
> 
> And don't forget to answer mpomnibus's question above me! :biggrin:


Situational. In most cases an IG regiment may request the aid of an astartes chapter to bolster their own lines. In other cases the astartes may act in support, undertaking missions that the guard are ill suited for. The only regiments I know for sure are permanently assigned to a chapter are the Ultramar Defence Auxilla on Maccrage and other worlds of Ultramar.


----------



## ThatOtherGuy

Is the double barrel shotgun and the old fashion chainsaw still still considered holy to the grey knights anymore? I mean, they are after all the most powerful anti-demon weaponry the galaxy has.


----------



## Serpion5

I`ll just assume you`re taking the piss and play along. If you _are_ serious, all weapons manufactured by Imperium and Mechanicus are considered holy. 

Shotgun and Chainsaw? Are you nuts? According to my extensive research (watching _Supernatural_) the best anti daemon weapon is the humble shiv. 

It`s concealable, easy to wield and can be thrown in dire enough circumstances. Screw the halberds and bolters, it`s shivs all the way! :so_happy:


----------



## ThatOtherGuy

Apparently one guys defeated a horde of demons on a unimaginable scale with a double barrel shotgun and a chainsaw. Plus he had a video game made after him.


----------



## Serpion5

Okay. I get it. Have some rep and shut up now. 

:laugh:


----------



## Angelus Censura

ThatOtherGuy said:


> Apparently one guys defeated a horde of demons on a unimaginable scale with a double barrel shotgun and a chainsaw. Plus he had a video game made after him.


 
Army of Darkness? 




My question: When building an army, could I plausibly play as Deathwatch, with say 1500 points of minis, and still have it fit the fluff? Or would it be more likely that the Deathwatch would be mixed into an existing SM Chapter, and I would have to use them as vets?


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> I`ll just assume you`re taking the piss and play along. If you _are_ serious, all weapons manufactured by Imperium and Mechanicus are considered holy.
> 
> Shotgun and Chainsaw? Are you nuts? According to my extensive research (watching _Supernatural_) the best anti daemon weapon is the humble shiv.
> 
> It`s concealable, easy to wield and can be thrown in dire enough circumstances. Screw the halberds and bolters, it`s shivs all the way! :so_happy:


Whats a shiv? (i take it that its an abrev.)


----------



## Baron Spikey

Androxine Vortex said:


> Whats a shiv? (i take it that its an abrev.)


Like a home made sharp implement (sharpened tooth brush handle being a common one) mostly constructed in prisons, unlike a Shank which is a sharpened weapon made from metal a Shiv is defined by it's non-metallic origins.


----------



## Keith

What are the three rectangles on the top hatch of Space Marine vehicles? They are often painted in bright colors to look...reflective I guess, like a lens. Some kind of sensor equipment?


----------



## Serpion5

Angelus Censura said:


> My question: When building an army, could I plausibly play as Deathwatch, with say 1500 points of minis, and still have it fit the fluff? Or would it be more likely that the Deathwatch would be mixed into an existing SM Chapter, and I would have to use them as vets?


Deathwatch act as kill teams but can be dispersed among allied forces as a bolster unit. You could feasibly have them as a vet squad or have them represented as your squad sergeants, but Sternguard vets would be the best option imo. 



Keith said:


> What are the three rectangles on the top hatch of Space Marine vehicles? They are often painted in bright colors to look...reflective I guess, like a lens. Some kind of sensor equipment?


I looked, but I have no idea what you`re referring to. :dunno:


----------



## Baron Spikey

Keith said:


> What are the three rectangles on the top hatch of Space Marine vehicles? They are often painted in bright colors to look...reflective I guess, like a lens. Some kind of sensor equipment?


Are you referring to the cupola hatch situated at the front where the Commander can poke out his head? If so then it's the Commander's vision block. (ref. _Imperial Armour 2- internal layout of the Rhino APC_)


----------



## forkmaster

I got a question. The Eldar have some ways of saying Chaos in other ways, I think it is in Legion and Fulgrim they most clear but I dont remember them. Is kinda like Primordial Truth, but the opposite (as Truth asounds positive and Eldar dont like them :biggrin:.)


----------



## Serpion5

The Primeordial Annihilator. 

Which is pretty accurate in a way. :grin:


----------



## forkmaster

Serpion5 said:


> The Primeordial Annihilator.
> 
> Which is pretty accurate in a way. :grin:


I thank you for that! :biggrin: + rep.


----------



## forkmaster

Oh I got another question here regarding the old Emperors Children Noise Marine box. If you look closely, there is a metal arm for the EC Aspiring Champion, and it has some distuigishing look on and Im not sure where I read it, but is is true the sword is hooked up to something, so when the Champion hack and slash, it sends out a electric thingy into the sword, so the weilder can feel the victims pain when he/she is stabbed/cut/killed by the sword?

Did that make any sense?


----------



## Serpion5

You mean does the sword victim`s pain get translated to the wielder? 

I think so. I believe there was such a weapon in the previous codex that had such an effect. It allowed the wielder to revel in the pain he was inflicting. So very Slaanesh. 

_*Serpion searches his archives...*_

Ah, it was the old Lash of Torment daemon weapon. It absorbs the pain of its victims and projects it around the immediate vicinity. But that doesn`t sound like a sword...

It could simply be an aesthetic design to that effect or maybe just a power coil. Can`t remember the model in that precise detail so really don`t know for sure. If anyone has an older codex than the previous it may have more info. :dunno:


----------



## forkmaster

Serpion5 said:


> You mean does the sword victim`s pain get translated to the wielder?
> 
> I think so. I believe there was such a weapon in the previous codex that had such an effect. It allowed the wielder to revel in the pain he was inflicting. So very Slaanesh.
> 
> _*Serpion searches his archives...*_
> 
> Ah, it was the old Lash of Torment daemon weapon. It absorbs the pain of its victims and projects it around the immediate vicinity. But that doesn`t sound like a sword...
> 
> It could simply be an aesthetic design to that effect or maybe just a power coil. Can`t remember the model in that precise detail so really don`t know for sure. If anyone has an older codex than the previous it may have more info. :dunno:


Exactly what I meant!  Im pretty sure Ive read this before, and when looking at the model it makes pretty much sense that it would (looking like electric wired sword). But thanks for the reply at least.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

When you side with Chaos undivided how are you supposed to get gifts? Do you gain tehm from all aspedts of Chaos or just the Big 4?
And how would you be empowered? Wouldn't the gifted power have to be equally distributed?


----------



## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> When you side with Chaos undivided how are you supposed to get gifts? Do you gain tehm from all aspedts of Chaos or just the Big 4?
> And how would you be empowered? Wouldn't the gifted power have to be equally distributed?


As far as I am aware the gifts just happen. You have no say, you simply receive the gift as the god wills and suddenly you have a flailing tentacle or whatever in place of your left leg. 

Who you receive the gift from depends on your dedication to whoever, though it seems undivided followers can appease one or more gods depending on their behaviour and achievements.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Does anyone know how strong the average Ogryn is? Supposedly Nork Deddog managed to drag a Chimera (38 tonnes) about twenty yards. So is this kinda feat the benchmark or is he an exceptional case?


----------



## Baron Spikey

Chompy Bits said:


> Does anyone know how strong the average Ogryn is? Supposedly Nork Deddog managed to drag a Chimera (38 tonnes) about twenty yards. So is this kinda feat the benchmark or is he an exceptional case?


They can crush a Space Marine's skull with one hand, basically they seem to be to Astartes what Astartes are to humans in terms of strength.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> As far as I am aware the gifts just happen. You have no say, you simply receive the gift as the god wills and suddenly you have a flailing tentacle or whatever in place of your left leg.
> 
> Who you receive the gift from depends on your dedication to whoever, though it seems undivided followers can appease one or more gods depending on their behaviour and achievements.


The way I always saw Chaos Undivided was like you can be asociated with all of Chaos but it wont be as strong as it would have been if you dedicated yourself to one God. I look at it like this. Say each "point" is how much you are directly asociated with that God.
CHAOS UNDIVIDED
Nurgle 5 
Khorne 5 
Slaanesh 5 
Tzeentch 5 

if you sided with NURGLE
Nurgle 20 
Khorne 0 
Slaanesh 0 
Tzeentch 0 

So if you side with Chaos Undivided you still are asociated with the Gods but it wont be as strong of a bond.

But with that quote you said above, would you be able to have blessings from lets say Nurgle and Khorne?


----------



## Serpion5

The only known champion to combine the marks of all 4 gods is Abaddon. There is no fluff I`m aware of (CotE?) of any in between area of a champion bearing two or three marks. 

As for gifts themselves, I have even less info. From what I can tell, the answer would seem to be yes, but it is possible a single god could be responsible for an individual`s set of gifts; maybe being a little less generous due to the lack of real dedication? 

I honestly don`t know, the Chaos Gods are fickle and chaotic by nature. :dunno:


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> The only known champion to combine the marks of all 4 gods is Abaddon. There is no fluff I`m aware of (CotE?) of any in between area of a champion bearing two or three marks.
> 
> As for gifts themselves, I have even less info. From what I can tell, the answer would seem to be yes, but it is possible a single god could be responsible for an individual`s set of gifts; maybe being a little less generous due to the lack of real dedication?
> 
> I honestly don`t know, the Chaos Gods are fickle and chaotic by nature. :dunno:


Well thanks regardless and hopefully CotE will take a glance atthis post.


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Horus had the favour of all of the Big 4, not that it did him much good in the end. 
They buggered off just when he needed then the most!


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I know that the Luna Wolves were changed to the Sons of Horus and that the ones still loyal to the Emperor were sent to Istvaan III but did any survive?

And if is not recorded do you think it would be possible that some would?

I think it would be interesting if someone wrote a book about a band of survivors from the Dropsite Massacre.


----------



## forkmaster

The Word Bearers worship them as a whole unity and not individually, but the rule can be bent for individual Astartes as some may tend to lean towards one God more than the other.  Then we have the Iron Warriors who only use the Warp as a mean to an end, not to worship.


----------



## Ashkore08

Normally on SM apothecaries, they have those awesome surgical tools attached to their armour at the wrist.

My question(s):
What is that called?
Has it ever been used as combat weapons?
Is it ever used????

honestly, i looked everywhere, and cant find it.


----------



## Karak The Unfaithful

> The only known champion to combine the marks of all 4 gods is Abaddon. There is no fluff I`m aware of (CotE?) of any in between area of a champion bearing two or three marks.
> 
> As for gifts themselves, I have even less info. From what I can tell, the answer would seem to be yes, but it is possible a single god could be responsible for an individual`s set of gifts; maybe being a little less generous due to the lack of real dedication?
> 
> I honestly don`t know, the Chaos Gods are fickle and chaotic by nature.


A champion of Chaos (Excluding Abbadon and Horus) cannot combine the marks of Khorne and Slaanesh or combine the marks of Nurgle and Tzeencth because those gods are rivals. Although they might be able to combine the marks of chaos gods that are not rivals.


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Ashkore08 said:


> Normally on SM apothecaries, they have those awesome surgical tools attached to their armour at the wrist.
> 
> My question(s):
> What is that called?
> Has it ever been used as combat weapons?
> Is it ever used????
> 
> honestly, i looked everywhere, and cant find it.


I hope I'm not getting terms mixed up here, but that thing is called a narthecium. It contains both the medical tools required to patch up wounded Marines and the reductor, which is used to harvest a dead Marine's gene-seed from his progenoids. Because it acts as a Swiss Army Knife of sorts, it also offers an implement to instantly euthanize (by means of a metal spike drilled into the victim's brain) a Marine beyond saving. Handy, eh?

I'm sure an Apothecary could use the spike as a combat weapon if necessary, though it'd be pretty ineffective. And yes, it's used all the time. Imagine a doctor without his stethoscope. Or band-aids. Or the lollipops he gives you after you get your shots. Just wouldn't work, right?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> Well thanks regardless and hopefully CotE will take a glance atthis post.


Have no fear... :laugh:



Androxine Vortex said:


> When you side with Chaos undivided how are you supposed to get gifts? Do you gain tehm from all aspedts of Chaos or just the Big 4?
> And how would you be empowered? Wouldn't the gifted power have to be equally distributed?


It's not entirely clear. Unless the individual in question is central to the schemes of the Four (as in Horus/Abaddon via the Mark of the Chaos Ascendent) then I imagine that adherents of chaos undivided recieve their _"boons"_ from elsewhere.

Saturation of warp energy focused on a single point in space and time for example could result in what mortals could perceive of as _chaotic gifts_. It doesn't necessarily have to involve the conscious involvement of one of the gods, notably because well it wouldn't really be an _"*undivided* gift"_ then. 



Androxine Vortex said:


> But with that quote you said above, would you be able to have blessings from lets say Nurgle and Khorne?


I can't think off the top of my head of any particular examples, but I don't see why it couldn't happen. 

Many chaos followers drift between worshipping different gods remember (the Black Legion initially for example, prior to the rise of the second Warmaster), several would accumulate gifts from different gods overtime. They probably wouldn't always _"stack"_, some perhaps even being volatile in unison resulting in catastrophe, but I imagine it would be possible nonetheless.



Karak The Unfaithful said:


> A champion of Chaos (Excluding Abbadon and Horus) cannot combine the marks of Khorne and Slaanesh or combine the marks of Nurgle and Tzeencth because those gods are rivals. Although they might be able to combine the marks of chaos gods that are not rivals.


All the gods are rivals, not just particular ones. In fact more than that, they all utterly oppose each other with every fibre of their being. They only ever come to some measure of compromise when absolute necessity dictates it, for example when the rise of the Emperor began to pose a threat to their dominance. 



Androxine Vortex said:


> I know that the Luna Wolves were changed to the Sons of Horus and that the ones still loyal to the Emperor were sent to Istvaan III but did any survive?
> 
> And if is not recorded do you think it would be possible that some would?


Loken is the obvious example.



Androxine Vortex said:


> I think it would be interesting if someone wrote a book about a band of survivors from the Dropsite Massacre.


Like a Salamanders HH novel for example?


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Well more specifically about the Luna Wolves. And when did Loken survive, I thought he died.

And thanks for the reply :biggrin:


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> All the gods are rivals, not just particular ones. In fact more than that, they all utterly oppose each other with every fibre of their being. They only ever come to some measure of compromise when absolute necessity dictates it, for example when the rise of the Emperor began to pose a threat to their dominance.


That's true, but some of the Gods are ideologically opposed, making them seem to be direct rivals of each other. That's what I think Karak was getting at. Classic example: Tzeentch and Nurgle. Tzeentch represents change, volatility, fate and manipulation. Nurgle signifies decay, degradation, disease and stagnation. Though you could also make an argument for Tzeentch against Khorne, as Khorne abhors the use of magic and Tzeentch is quite the magician. If Tzeentch is Nurgle's antithesis, Khorne - who embodies martial glory and strength, pain and death in battle - would understandably oppose Slaanesh, who is seen as a weakling that only pursues a long life of pleasure.

The Great Game dictates they must all remain enemies, though, except in special circumstances like the rise of the Emperor. How these perceived rivalries affect the gifts the Gods bestow upon their followers, however, remains to be seen.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> Well more specifically about the Luna Wolves.


Plausable. But it's a long shot, Isstvan III was reduced to sinders. If there were any survivors, it would have been very few.



Androxine Vortex said:


> And when did Loken survive, I thought he died.


No, unfortunately he survived. 



Davidicus 40k said:


> That's what I think Karak was getting at.


Yeah I know.  Hence the: _"not just particular ones"_. :biggrin:


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Plausable. But it's a long shot, Isstvan III was reduced to sinders. If there were any survivors, it would have been very few.
> 
> 
> 
> No, unfortunately he survived.


HEY! What do you mean unfortunately? 
He was an awesome character! How dare you!


----------



## ckcrawford

Androxine Vortex said:


> HEY! What do you mean unfortunately?
> He was an awesome character! How dare you!


I like Loken's death. Also the Mournival falling apart shows Horus also falling apart. The fact that Loken survived shows that perhaps Horus has some sanity. I think we all prefer a mad Horus.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

ckcrawford said:


> I like Loken's death. Also the Mournival falling apart shows Horus also falling apart. The fact that Loken survived shows that perhaps Horus has some sanity. I think we all prefer a mad Horus.


All I was getting at was that Loken was a fantastic character and I truly loved him. I just hated how CotE said that he unfortunaltey survived.

I kind of liked the fact that he died because it made the betrayal so much more...well more of an impact if you will.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I just looked at a couple White Scars and Raven Guard armies but whats the real difference? They seem to both be heavily focused on fast attack its just one has jet-packs and others have bikes.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Androxine Vortex said:


> All I was getting at was that Loken was a fantastic character and I truly loved him. I just hated how CotE said that he unfortunaltey survived.
> 
> I kind of liked the fact that he died because it made the betrayal so much more...well more of an impact if you will.


CotE said he unfortunately survived becuase Loken's death had meaning, impact- to find out he survived robbed us of that.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Baron Spikey said:


> CotE said he unfortunately survived becuase Loken's death had meaning, impact- to find out he survived robbed us of that.


Ok. When I first read it I thought he was implying it like, "He survived...unfourtunatley because I disliked him and wished him to die"

Oh and don't forget about my question 

I just looked at a couple White Scars and Raven Guard armies but whats the real difference? They seem to both be heavily focused on fast attack its just one has jet-packs and others have bikes.


AND

Can Space Marines have gold armor? The only soldiers in the Emperor's army that have gold are the Custodes so is it just restricted to them because I thought this looked really cool.


----------



## Quozzo

The Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard, the Honour Guard, Captain Tycho, the Sanguinor and even Dante all have Gold armour. Although its not the entire Chapters colours it at least does say that gold is not restricted to the big E's body guards (who don't wear it anyway)

[edit] _*Body*_ guard, i just got it lol


----------



## Baron Spikey

The Celestial Lions all have golden armour (with sky blue helmets so they're not completely gold admittedly) but to answer your question clearly- gold armour is not restricted to Custodians.


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Guard question. Are commissars always assigned to a regiment, or are there cases where a regiment (particularly a smaller one) has only a colonel and his officers? Or is the reverse true, where commissars are assigned only to regiments with real/repeated discipline problems?


----------



## Baron Spikey

Davidicus 40k said:


> Guard question. Are commissars always assigned to a regiment, or are there cases where a regiment (particularly a smaller one) has only a colonel and his officers? Or is the reverse true, where commissars are assigned only to regiments with real/repeated discipline problems?


As with, nearly, everything in 40k there are exceptions to each rule but the majority of regiments have commissars assigned to them- depending on size, quality of troops, morale, warzone etc the numbers differ from regiment to regiment (for example there won't be anywhere near as many Commissars in a tank regiment or storm trooper company as there is in a standard infantry regiment).


----------



## Serpion5

Notable exceptions are Gaunt, who also acts as his regiment`s colonel, and Cain, whose regiment was well managed enough to only warrant a single commissar. 

Some regiments such as the Tallarns tend to have commissars purely as a mark of their piety.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Serpion5 said:


> Notable exceptions are Gaunt, who also acts as his regiment`s colonel, and Cain, whose regiment was well managed enough to only warrant a single commissar.
> 
> Some regiments such as the Tallarns tend to have commissars purely as a mark of their piety.


But then Gaunt has Hark and Ludd 'forced' on him so he's not the only Commissar in the regiment anymore.


----------



## Serpion5

I didn`t say he was the only one, I just said he was also the colonel. 

It was Cain who was the only commissar in his regiment. 

My bad, I didn`t word that well. Will do gooder in next time. :biggrin:


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Baron Spikey said:


> But then Gaunt has Hark and Ludd 'forced' on him so he's not the only Commissar in the regiment anymore.


That's another misconception I need to get out of my head. Guard regiments constitute thousands of men, but I've always assumed they had only one commissar. Unless that commissar could magically appear wherever a disgruntled soldier started whispering about desertion or rebellion, he would need some help. The Tanith First aren't a huge regiment and they did well enough with one, but Gaunt was also their colonel.

Anyways, thanks for the quick answers.

Yeah Serpion, do gooder!!! Nah, you don't have to. I understood what you were saying


----------



## forkmaster

So Ive been listening to Garro: Legion of one! They mentioned this World Eater Varren and I found some information about him on lexicanum but not much. I wonder how did he escape to join the mischievious "Grey Ghosts" of Garro?

Was he a part of the Eisenstein crew (though FotE states only 70 Death Guard excluding Garro and Iacton got out of there) or did he escape some other way?

Edit:

Also after looking at the cover. It does look like Garviel Loken. He has the Eye of Horus on his right shoulder pad.


----------



## NiceGuyEddy

Davidicus 40k said:


> Guard question. Are commissars always assigned to a regiment, or are there cases where a regiment (particularly a smaller one) has only a colonel and his officers? Or is the reverse true, where commissars are assigned only to regiments with real/repeated discipline problems?


Apart from what the guys said the Cadians seem to be an exception. In _Cadian's Blood_ Thade quotes an obscure Cadian loophole that deems anyone over the rank of liutenant can have the training to deal with sanctioned psykers in place of a commissar. Given that Thade's regiment hasn't had a commissar in over 17 years I reckon that means the training allows anyone over the rank of liutenant to take on most if not all of a commissars responsibilities.

In most cases commissars are assigned depending on whether they are deemed necessary by whoever is in command of a regiment say a Colonal or a Major or they're superiors say a Lord General.


----------



## Zarick

The emporer is the product of a thousand minds merged into one, the chaos gods told of the emporer making packes with them for forbidden knowledge in The First Heretic, true of false?


----------



## NiceGuyEddy

What you say is certainly a theory. It basically claims that a bunch of shaman, which I guess could be termed as early psykers, realised they were being picked off one by one when their souls went to the warp after they died by the creatures that inhabit the warp instead of being reborn again. Their logic was if they all were to die at once the combined power of their souls would be enough to fight off the warp creatures and they would be reborn as an all-powerful being; the emperor. 

The fluff your referring to claims that the emperor needed the assisstance of the chaos gods to create the primarchs. I'd be leaning towards true. It might explain how the chaos gods were able to scatter the primarchs and why the emperor never seemed to entertain the option of creating more.


----------



## Serpion5

It`s pretty much confirmed the Emperor made a pact with Chaos to create the primarchs. 

The Emperor`s origins currently are simply stated as "unknown," however random snippets in various sources would heavily support the thousand minds theory, to the point where many would consider it canon. When I think of the Emperor, that`s pretty much what I go on. It makes a lot of sense as well.


----------



## mpomnibus

Was playing dow dark crusade the other day with that fire over kronus addon and the eldar have a big ass tank called the engine of vaul and I was wondering if that thing could take out a baneblade?


----------



## Davidicus 40k

mpomnibus said:


> Was playing dow dark crusade the other day with that fire over kronus addon and the eldar have a big ass tank called the engine of vaul and I was wondering if that thing could take out a baneblade?


It'd depend on the circumstances. "Engine of Vaul" is a categorical term used for several super heavy vehicles, including the Scorpion. Haven't played Fire Over Kronus but, given the fact that only Mars has the complete STC to produce "true" Baneblades and other Forge Worlds must often replace the armor, engine, main cannon, etc., the chances of encountering a genuine Baneblade are rare. So, more then likely, yes, it could take out a Baneblade.


----------



## Serpion5

From a strictly fluff perspective, most eldar vehicles are the superior to what you could call the Imperial equivalent. Assuming the Engine of Vaul is a scorpion or some other superheavy variant, I`d say it probably could destroy a Baneblade.


----------



## mpomnibus

I am rereading the cain series and I just found out that cain is dead. Is that true?


----------



## Serpion5

Where at any point in the series does it say Cain is dead?


----------



## NiceGuyEddy

mpomnibus said:


> I am rereading the cain series and I just found out that cain is dead. Is that true?


Doubt it. We know Cain is alive up to the 13th black crusade time is pretty much frozen around then which begs the question what is Amberley Vail doing reading, analysing, editing and circulating Cain's memoirs in the middle of a chaos incursion doesn't she have anything better to do? :grin:


----------



## mpomnibus

In the book death or glory page 294, it says that he is buried with full military honours so was kinda shock to read that 

:shok:


----------



## NiceGuyEddy

mpomnibus said:


> In the book death or glory page 294, it says that he is buried with full military honours so was kinda shock to read that
> 
> :shok:


Haven't got it with me but I'm almost certain that was an error on the part of the administratum. While actually only MIA on Perlia (was that the planet?) someone mistakenly declared him KIA and gave him the full military burial.


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Alright, going from commissars to orks. Can greenskins actually speak Low Gothic? Not all of them of course, but it is possible for the average ork to learn the language of humans? I've seen their tongue described as "guttural, brutish", etc., all the adjectives you'd expect, but I was just reading _Helsreach_ and Grimaldus gets all sorts of pissed when he hears an ork "defiling the language of the pure race."

My initial thought is, despite orks' primitive intelligence, they could pick up Low Gothic through decades or centuries of repeated interaction (that's the nice term for raiding and pillaging) with humans.


----------



## Vortex

Davidicus 40k said:


> Alright, going from commissars to orks. Can greenskins actually speak Low Gothic? Not all of them of course, but it is possible for the average ork to learn the language of humans? I've seen their tongue described as "guttural, brutish", etc., all the adjectives you'd expect, but I was just reading _Helsreach_ and Grimaldus gets all sorts of pissed when he hears an ork "defiling the language of the pure race."
> 
> My initial thought is, despite orks' primitive intelligence, they could pick up Low Gothic through decades or centuries of repeated interaction (that's the nice term for raiding and pillaging) with humans.


This is just my thoughts, but considering the comparative speed with which a feral Ork tribe can advance from spears and slings to shootas and tanks, and then to space travel, I think it's reasonable to think that Orks can and do pick up foreign tongues fairly quickly. IMO, sometimes Orks just need to communicate with/taunt/insult their enemies, and I honestly can't see any non-Ork speaking Orkish, Imperials least of all. Maybe the Old Ones deliberately engineered them with the knack to pick up new languages with ease, who knows.

I also think a previous Ork codex mentioned that Warboss Nazdreg speaks Low Gothic fluently (which in an Ork's case might just mean that he knows a lot of big words and his spoken grammar and sentence construction are marginally better than your average greenskin).


----------



## Baron Spikey

Davidicus 40k said:


> Alright, going from commissars to orks. Can greenskins actually speak Low Gothic? Not all of them of course, but it is possible for the average ork to learn the language of humans? I've seen their tongue described as "guttural, brutish", etc., all the adjectives you'd expect, but I was just reading _Helsreach_ and Grimaldus gets all sorts of pissed when he hears an ork "defiling the language of the pure race."
> 
> My initial thought is, despite orks' primitive intelligence, they could pick up Low Gothic through decades or centuries of repeated interaction (that's the nice term for raiding and pillaging) with humans.


Yes Orks can learn Low Gothic, Ghazghkull can even write fluently in Low Gothic (considering some Orks can't even write in Orkish that's a hell of an achievement).


Vortex said:


> I honestly can't see any non-Ork speaking Orkish, Imperials least of all.


Commissar Yarrick can speak fluent Ork, he's the only one that jumps to mind (or at least the most famous) but I imagine there are others.



Vortex said:


> Maybe the Old Ones deliberately engineered them with the knack to pick up new languages with ease, who knows.
> 
> I also think a previous Ork codex mentioned that Warboss Nazdreg speaks Low Gothic fluently (which in an Ork's case might just mean that he knows a lot of big words and his spoken grammar and sentence construction are marginally better than your average greenskin).


Sound theory, entirely fitting with what we know about the Ork race.


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Baron Spikey said:


> Yes Orks can learn Low Gothic, Ghazghkull can even write fluently in Low Gothic (considering some Orks can't even write in Orkish that's a hell of an achievement).


Hilarious, thanks Vortex and Baron.


----------



## mpomnibus

Just checked it again and I am pretty sure that cain is dead, also check lexicanum and I know its not actual fact but it goes with my theory thx though


----------



## Uber Ork

I would say yes they speak it. The Blood Axes especially are known for their interaction with the Imperium. The ork dex says this about them...



> *Ork Codex pg. 15*
> The Blood Axes are held by the other clans to be a bunch of untrustworthy gits. They trade openly with the Imperium, parley with the foe and will even consider retreating from battle if faced with insurmountable odds. ...True, they have made the most contact with the forces of the Imperium, occasionally fighting as mercenaries and making extensive use of Imperial war material, but then every Ork can see the funny side of extorting weapons from human planets only to use them against their former owners.


I would imagine if they trade openly and parley with the Imperium they probably speak their language. I would imagine, while the other klans take a dim view of the level of interaction the Blood Axes have with the Imperium that they know how to speak low Gothic if nothing else just to taunt the Imperium's armies in battle, interrogate a prisoner, or understand Imperial communication intercepts, etc.





Ok, I have a random question. Lexicanum says this about Navigators...



> *Lexicanum: *http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Navigators
> Navigators are a very particular form of human mutant, possessing the navigator gene, which gives them the unique ability of navigating through warp space. This ability makes them absolutely necessary to the Imperium's continued survival.
> 
> All Navigators have a third eye, commonly called the Warp Eye, on their foreheads, which allows them to perceive the "psychic light" known as the Astronomican, enabling them to fully use their powers in guiding ships through the currents of the Warp. Their ability to sense the tides of the warp is considered psychic, although Navigators never possess any psychic abilities beyond the powers their warp eye affords them.



and the Black Templars codex says this about the BT's...




> *Black Templars Codex pg 8*
> The Black Templars chose not to adhere to the Codex Astartes and, following the oath of Sigismund, the Chapter embarked upon its Crusade, eschewing the idea of a home world and living aboard their Crusade fleets, made up of dozens of battle barges, strike cruisers and other craft such as training vessels and gigantic forgeships.


*AND*



> *Black Templars Codex pg 8*
> All Space Marines are renowned for their fervent dedication, but the extremity of the Black Templars' faith is often described as fanatical. They lust to crush the enemies of Mankind and profess absolutely no tolerance for heretics, mutants, warlocks, aliens or any other abomination against the Emperor. For this reason, the Black Templars have no Librarians, their mistrust of the powers of the Warp extending to their own numbers, for no Black Templar would fight alongside a witch.


*AND*



> *Black Templars Codex pg 8*
> Given their fleet-based nature, the Black Templars are rarely assembled as a Chapter, but are instead divided into a number of Crusades. ...Only the High Marshal of the Chapter has any idea of how many Black Templars Space Marines there are, but it is obvious they are far more numerous than most conventional Chapters, although dispersed over a much wider area. If certain accounts are to be believed, they could even be as strong as five thousand to six thousand battle brethren in total...




So... 


The BT's are 5 to 6 thousand battle brothers strong and a fleet based chapter living, training, and even building equipment on their ships. That's *a lot* of ships, and every one of those ships would require a Navigator. Navigators are both mutant and slightly psychic, yet the BT's hate mutants and witches (psykers) so much they wont even have Librarians in their own ranks _(5-6 thousand battle brothers and not 1 Librarian)._




*So... how do the BT's put up with all those mutant/psychic Navigators??? * 


Isn't that a bit ironic that GW picked a fleet based chapter, nay potentially the largest chapter in all the imperium much less largest fleet based chapter, to also be the ones who have "absolutely no tolerance" for mutants and psykers? :laugh:




.


----------



## Baron Spikey

mpomnibus said:


> Just checked it again and I am pretty sure that cain is dead, also check lexicanum and I know its not actual fact but it goes with my theory thx though


But the Ciaphas Cain books refer to events and times that are further ahead than what we consider to be the present in 40k- as of 999.M41 Commissar Cain is very much alive (if supposedly retired).


----------



## Vortex

Uber Ork said:


> *So... how do the BT's put up with all those mutant/psychic Navigators???*
> .


Okay, so the Black Templars are monodominants. They may be fanatics, but they're not stupid. If the Chapter went about killing all its Navigators, Astropaths, et cetera, then they wouldn't be able to crusade against the threats that were actually immediate.

How I see it, and this applies to all monodominant factions, is that while they hate these mutants and psykers, they also have to be realistic. As it says in the Dark Heresy book Disciples of the Dark Gods, "Of course, [Monodominants] understand that this lofty goal will take time and, in the interim, though they might despise them, the Imperium must make use of mutants and psykers for its survival".
So basically, suffer them for now, kill them all another time. It's ironic and hypocritical, yes, but that's the Imperium for you.


----------



## forkmaster

Speaking about the Orks: If you take DoW-games a canon, then you can see Orks can speak Gothic or else they wouldnt be able to make packs with CSM. In the beginning of Purging of Kallidus (I think thats the spelling), you also encounter the warboss and some of his minions speaking Gothic in a Orkish accent.

Also if Im not wrong, during the HH it was then psykers were forbidden, but that didn't include astropaths and navigators since they are heavily rellied upon. Since the BT follow the decree laid down before the HH broke out, navigators and astropaths are allowed to be onboard but not accepted.

I got a question when reading Eisenhorn. It seems there are mutants here and there across the Imperium and on some worlds they dont really care to "dispose" of them. Are they generally more accepted on some worlds than others? Since "Kill the mutant" is one of the main terms for Astartes to live by.


----------



## Serpion5

forkmaster said:


> Speaking about the Orks: If you take DoW-games a canon, then you can see Orks can speak Gothic or else they wouldnt be able to make packs with CSM. In the beginning of Purging of Kallidus (I think thats the spelling), you also encounter the warboss and some of his minions speaking Gothic in a Orkish accent.
> 
> Also if Im not wrong, during the HH it was then psykers were forbidden, but that didn't include astropaths and navigators since they are heavily rellied upon. Since the BT follow the decree laid down before the HH broke out, navigators and astropaths are allowed to be onboard but not accepted.
> 
> I got a question when reading Eisenhorn. It seems there are mutants here and there across the Imperium and on some worlds they dont really care to "dispose" of them. Are they generally more accepted on some worlds than others? Since "Kill the mutant" is one of the main terms for Astartes to live by.


BL is canon over Relic`s games. Goto has the Warboss speaking with the traitor astartes, but no other. I would interpret that as being slightly more educated than the rest.

On your mutant query, yes it is so that some worlds are far more tolerant than others, but even so they live as second class citizens at best. Unless they are super thrifty like Phant. :wink:


----------



## AgentOrange24

mpomnibus said:


> Just checked it again and I am pretty sure that cain is dead, also check lexicanum and I know its not actual fact but it goes with my theory thx though


Vail is compiling the "Cain Archive" in M42.

The Perlia incident lead to him always being listed as MIA, despite as Vail says "him being buried with full military honors."

All of the stories told by Cain take place in M41, but, they don't come to light via Vail until M42, after his death.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, Vail's few writings in the Cain Archive are the only things currently going from someone in M42.


----------



## Son of mortarion

The black templars tolerate navis nobilite for two reasons, one societal and the other practical/political.

The first is that navigatore, while psykers( amongst the most powerful, in fact), and have obvious mutations(the third eye) their status in the imperium means that they are not commonly viewed as such, but as a valuable series of noble houses that perform a vital function within the imperium. The second reason has two parts, they simply could not do their job without them, and offending a body in the imperium as powerful as the Navis Nobilite would have very negative, possibly fatal repercussions for them.


----------



## mpomnibus

yeah, the latest book was the one in the start of the black crusade in m41, so as far as we know cain isn't alive in m42


----------



## Serpion5

What? Cain`s archives are written well after M42 has started. They`re his memoirs, they aren`t intended to be read at actual date.


----------



## AgentOrange24

SPOILERS!









Did it get changed in _The First Heretic_ that Lorgar is now at Isstvan 5?

I always believed he led the attack on the Ultramarines and Kor-Phaeron/Erebus stayed with Horus.

Did it get changed? or was I always wrong?


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## forkmaster

So Im currently reading Purging of Kallidus (spoiler alert):



I know Gav Thorpe has some special bond to the Dark Angels, this being his second about them. His previous work, Angels of Darkness, according to Lex the Chaplain interrogating him was called Boreas. There is this character called that in the mentioned book at the beginning and he dies. Is this the same guy who caught Astellan?


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## Serpion5

Haven`t read _Kallidus,_ but I know that Boreas, the chaplain who captured Astelan, did indeed die at the end of AoD.


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## Baron Spikey

AgentOrange24 said:


> Did it get changed in _The First Heretic_ that Lorgar is now at Isstvan 5?
> 
> I always believed he led the attack on the Ultramarines and Kor-Phaeron/Erebus stayed with Horus.
> 
> Did it get changed? or was I always wrong?


No it didn't get changed, so ergo you were wrong. Sorry


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## AgentOrange24

Baron Spikey said:


> No it didn't get changed, so ergo you were wrong. Sorry


Thank you.


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## Mob

AgentOrange24 said:


> Vail is compiling the "Cain Archive" in M42.
> 
> The Perlia incident lead to him always being listed as MIA, despite as Vail says "him being buried with full military honors."
> 
> All of the stories told by Cain take place in M41, but, they don't come to light via Vail until M42, after his death.
> 
> Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, Vail's few writings in the Cain Archive are the only things currently going from someone in M42.


The Ultramarines novel series has to have logically entered M42 by now; Uriel Ventris is made Captain in 999.M41. No way all that jazz happened inside a year.

_Purging of Kallidus_ is set before Angels of Darkness, IIRC. AoD is set in the aftermath of the Piscina campaign.


----------



## Harriticus

Was reading through some Battlefleet Gothic fluff when I noticed it said that the Necrons have been capturing millions of Imperial citizens and vanishing, and nobody knows why they're doing this. 

Does anybody know exactly why the Necrons are capturing people?


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## Serpion5

They can harvest the life essence of the living to 

1: Feed the star gods.

2: Power their machinery.

3: Awaken dormant necrons. 

Essentially, the necrons energy sources consist of leeched energy, from living things or stars, it makes little difference to them.


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## vulcan539

What is the generally accepted RL languages for high and low gothic?


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## Baron Spikey

They're presented in the books as being Latin-esque and English respectively. Though that's just for the reader's understanding, I doubt they'd actually sound like that in the setting itself (i.e an English speaker probably wouldn't be able to understand something in Low Gothic).


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## Harriticus

Serpion5 said:


> They can harvest the life essence of the living to
> 
> 1: Feed the star gods.
> 
> 2: Power their machinery.
> 
> 3: Awaken dormant necrons.
> 
> Essentially, the necrons energy sources consist of leeched energy, from living things or stars, it makes little difference to them.


I'm surprised this hasn't been delved into some more, the latest Tyranid codex for instance went into detail how they consume a world. I wasn't even aware the Necrons had these human batteries, machines, and etc. for "harvesting the living". I figured the C'tan just ate the souls of those they killed.


----------



## Serpion5

No, the c`tan have no use whatsoever for warp based energy. They do not feed on "souls," they feed on bioelectricity and such.


----------



## 13illfred

I have seen a rather large amount of questions here and there regarding to sm out of their armour and this made me wonder about the actual process of removing said armour and getting into it. So forgive me if this questions is not as unique as i believe it is but how is the armour placed on the wearer? especially tactical dreadnought armour, i have trouble imagining a single marine getting into it by himself.


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## Serpion5

Marines are able to remove and don their armour by themselves, but typically they have a team of serfs do it for them. The process takes a while as litanies are chanted and incense burned and other pointless crap. 

Terminator armour is a similar process. I have not read it described in detail, but there are multiple steps to putting it on and taking it off. 

Spikey would probably know if there`s a more detailed explanation somewhere.


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## Androxine Vortex

I remember reading on LEX about the Sons of Malice and it said the Inquisitor witnessed them usung flesh-eating rituals and thought they were heretics. but then later said that flesh eating rituals were common among SM

I know that the space marines are not in the fullest extent "good guys" but it really seems like a very odd practice. What would be the point of this ritual.

Yes they have other rituals that may seem pointless but they seem relevent like the oath of moment or blessing their armor and holy bolter before going into battle.


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## Serpion5

Typically something about sharing the bonds of flesh. 

The mortifactors like to drink each other`s blood to ascertain which battles they will fight in and to seal pacts and such. :dunno:


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## normtheunsavoury

Androxine Vortex said:


> I remember reading on LEX about the Sons of Malice and it said the Inquisitor witnessed them usung flesh-eating rituals and thought they were heretics. but then later said that flesh eating rituals were common among SM
> 
> I know that the space marines are not in the fullest extent "good guys" but it really seems like a very odd practice. What would be the point of this ritual.
> 
> Yes they have other rituals that may seem pointless but they seem relevent like the oath of moment or blessing their armor and holy bolter before going into battle.


There is a practical side to SM's eating folks too, they can gather information about their victims through one of the implants they have.


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## Serpion5

Yes, but only if they eat the brain.


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## forkmaster

Mob said:


> The Ultramarines novel series has to have logically entered M42 by now; Uriel Ventris is made Captain in 999.M41. No way all that jazz happened inside a year.
> 
> _Purging of Kallidus_ is set before Angels of Darkness, IIRC. AoD is set in the aftermath of the Piscina campaign.


Well I finished the novel, in the chapter when Astelan is mentioned, is sounds like it was the latest catch of Fallen, being pretty recent and Boreas the Chaplain survives at the end but only barely!


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## gen.ahab

Serpion5 said:


> Yes, but only if they eat the brain.


One of the most retarded peices of fluff they have ever included. It is like they were high off their fucking minds when they made some of this shit up. 

(sitting around a table smoking pot)

"Oh, oh, I have an idea..... we should make them eat peoples brains like zombies, that would be neat."

"Oooo, and if they did they learn what the dudes brained knew."

(chorus of pot fueled stupid laughter)

Because 2 ton zombie super soldiers were a good fucking idea.


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## Androxine Vortex

normtheunsavoury said:


> There is a practical side to SM's eating folks too, they can gather information about their victims through one of the implants they have.





Serpion5 said:


> Yes, but only if they eat the brain.


:shok:What??? That just sounds soooo stupid
And it is never used in any books or anything so whats the point?
oh well, just another thing to complain about I guess


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## Baron Spikey

Androxine Vortex said:


> :shok:What??? That just sounds soooo stupid
> And it is never used in any books or anything so whats the point?
> oh well, just another thing to complain about I guess


It's used in the Ultramarines book _Courage and Honour_.


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## gen.ahab

Baron Spikey said:


> It's used in the Ultramarines book _Courage and Honour_.


When? I don't recall that.... although that means little since I skimmed that entire book.


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## Serpion5

Sergeant Learchus eats a tau brain so he learns how to fly a tau skimmer and also learns the codes to access their base I think.


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## gen.ahab

Serpion5 said:


> Sergeant Learchus eats a tau brain so he learns how to fly a tau skimmer and also learns the codes to access their base I think.


Ah, see I thought that part was boring so I skipped it. Thank you for that.


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## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> Sergeant Learchus eats a tau brain so he learns how to fly a tau skimmer and also learns the codes to access their base I think.


Alright I never knew h=they could do that. From now on when I model my marines they will have brain matter dripping from their face grill


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## Androxine Vortex

Is there a Chaos God that represents the unity of Chaos? I figured there might be a minor God since Malice represents Chaos falling apart then why not have an opposite?


oh and since I'm already asking a question I was looking at different Chaos Warbands. I'm just confused as to wether or not they are loyal to their traitor Legion. They changed their coat of arms and their colors but would they fight alongside their patron legion or are they enemies. (i understand that this answer could very in certain cases but for the most part)

thanks:grin:


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## Androxine Vortex

If Khorne dislikes psykers, how are his worshippers able to communicate with him. Yes they worship him with blood but how would they even know of his existence if they are not able to "find him" in the warp with their minds?

Does he use any psykers at all for anything?

And I also have an unanswered question above this post too


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## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> Is there a Chaos God that represents the unity of Chaos? I figured there might be a minor God since Malice represents Chaos falling apart then why not have an opposite?
> 
> 
> oh and since I'm already asking a question I was looking at different Chaos Warbands. I'm just confused as to wether or not they are loyal to their traitor Legion. They changed their coat of arms and their colors but would they fight alongside their patron legion or are they enemies. (i understand that this answer could very in certain cases but for the most part)
> 
> thanks:grin:


To the first: None that I am aware of. To the second: That is entirely up to the warband leader. Keep in mind that honour and loyalty are not common traits among most renegade astartes. 



Androxine Vortex said:


> If Khorne dislikes psykers, how are his worshippers able to communicate with him. Yes they worship him with blood but how would they even know of his existence if they are not able to "find him" in the warp with their minds?
> 
> Does he use any psykers at all for anything?
> 
> And I also have an unanswered question above this post too


The warp is insidious and permeates the minds of practically everyone. You need not be a psyker to hear the temptations of Chaos. 

And I`m sure even Khorne would have at least some limited use for psykers. Navigators maybe? Unless they have some daemonic alternative. :dunno:


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## Pathfinder201

Quick Question. The book that the librarians carry arround. What is in the book?


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## Serpion5

Pathfinder201 said:


> Quick Question. The book that the librarians carry arround. What is in the book?


Best I can ascertain, from a line in the Insignium astartes, they are symbols, often containing wards and incantations taught to astartes librarians.


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## Androxine Vortex

I was reading Storm of Iron and one of the IW mentioned something about his Cabal sorcerror. I thought that the Cabal hated Chaos (the Primordial Anhiliator they call it) But in Legion they did mention that they wanted Chaos to "win" so that it would drive humanity into extintion and somehow making Chaos fall. Could that be the reason?


----------



## Baron Spikey

Androxine Vortex said:


> I was reading Storm of Iron and one of the IW mentioned something about his Cabal sorcerror. I thought that the Cabal hated Chaos (the Primordial Anhiliator they call it) But in Legion they did mention that they wanted Chaos to "win" so that it would drive humanity into extintion and somehow making Chaos fall. Could that be the reason?


You're mistaking a Cabal (a collection of like minded individuals, specifically sorcerors in this case) with The Cabal a Xenos alliance.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Baron Spikey said:


> You're mistaking a Cabal (a collection of like minded individuals, speciically sorcerors in this case) with The Cabal a Xenos alliance.


oh didnt know that it was a real word. Yeah that is a big difference :laugh:
Thanks Baron


----------



## Ashkore08

Two questions: How long would it take for a Battle-Barge to be constructed? I read that Astartes chapters can usually field only 2-3 battle-barges, so how long would a newly founded chapter have to wait for their compliment?

Second: What does an STC look like? Is it physical blueprints, or some kind of digital data thingie? and could 2 or 3 of them be "overlapped" to reveal a totally new design of something?


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## forkmaster

I got some wonderings about Inquisitor Toth from DOW Games. Its suspicious that he arrived on the planet even before the outbreak there came to be. What was his motives to be there? And also I think I read somewhere he was possessed by a daemon, or at least in the service of chaos, is that true? Is that why he really wanted the stone destroyed=


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## NiceGuyEddy

Ashkore08 said:


> Two questions: How long would it take for a Battle-Barge to be constructed? I read that Astartes chapters can usually field only 2-3 battle-barges, so how long would a newly founded chapter have to wait for their compliment?


1. Planet killer took 161 years, so that would be the max time it would take the imperium to make a battle barge. Why then don't the imperium make more? Chances are they don't know how. Older is almost always better in 40k.



Ashkore08 said:


> Second: What does an STC look like? Is it physical blueprints, or some kind of digital data thingie? and could 2 or 3 of them be "overlapped" to reveal a totally new design of something?


2. They're computer's. A "complete" STC could theoretically be used to obtain plans for everything that the race of man could build during the age of technology. No complete STC has been found, usually you can expect one STC find to equal one invention. 

Overlapping STC would be a bit like the catholic church deciding to combine a crucifix, a chalice and the Jesus shroud into one big mega icon. The mechanicus treat STC as religious icons, any overlapping would probably be dealt with severely.


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## forkmaster

So I need some help with translation and what to call something. Its not fluff directly but kinda. On the cover of Fall of Damnos you can see Captain Sicarus right. His helmet looks specially with that old roman thingy centurions usually have. What are those called?


----------



## Angel of Blood

Think its pretty much just called a crest.


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## ThatOtherGuy

you mean a laurel wreath?


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## Serpion5

I assume you mean the brush? I would just call it a crest, unless you can find a more specific name. Try Google or Wikipedia.


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## Angel of Blood

I had a look around, and all i can still find is simply 'crest'


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## Serpion5

There ya go then. :thank_you:


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## forkmaster

I tried, only the Swedish wikipedia (forgot to check the English one) and no info there. And crest would be a good thing to call it. Thanks you guys.  I got some other here. In the third Eisenhorn book, there is a Daemon King buried on some ancient planet (I havent finished the book yet but Im getting there).

Are there Daemon Kings as well, or did he just change his title to suit him since this was before humans even counted time and nobody was around to correct him? And if there are DK out there, could there be more fancy daemon titles?

One more thing, I know there are greater and lesser daemons, and also more neutral ones like furies, but are there more types of daemons? Like daemons in between lesser and greater? Are there more kinds like them? Do you understand where Im trying to get here?


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## Serpion5

Yes, daemons can be formed from any emotion no matter how fleeting. These raw daemons can last less than a millisecond or can live for millennia. 

As for titles, the only limit to a daemon`s title is its own pride.


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## ThatOtherGuy

forkmaster said:


> I tried, only the Swedish wikipedia (forgot to check the English one) and no info there. And crest would be a good thing to call it. Thanks you guys.  I got some other here. In the third Eisenhorn book, there is a Daemon King buried on some ancient planet (I havent finished the book yet but Im getting there).
> 
> Are there Daemon Kings as well, or did he just change his title to suit him since this was before humans even counted time and nobody was around to correct him? And if there are DK out there, could there be more fancy daemon titles?
> 
> One more thing, I know there are greater and lesser daemons, and also more neutral ones like furies, but are there more types of daemons? Like daemons in between lesser and greater? Are there more kinds like them? Do you understand where Im trying to get here?


I understand what you mean. As of right now demons are creatures created by emotion via through their gods. However, creatures like enslavers and astral spectre appear not to be created by emotion. This leaves us the possibility that entities can be born through other means besides emotion in the warp. Its just that the classification 'demon' is tied to the servants of chaos and their gods. So if you wanted to, you could create some demon that has absolutely no tie to the chaos gods, but for all technical purposes it will lose its classification as demon.\

As for names that demons take, think of it as the names we give ourselves on the forums here; their much cooler than their real names.


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## forkmaster

ThatOtherGuy said:


> I understand what you mean. As of right now demons are creatures created by emotion via through their gods. However, creatures like enslavers and astral spectre appear not to be created by emotion. This leaves us the possibility that entities can be born through other means besides emotion in the warp. Its just that the classification 'demon' is tied to the servants of chaos and their gods. So if you wanted to, you could create some demon that has absolutely no tie to the chaos gods, but for all technical purposes it will lose its classification as demon.
> 
> As for names that demons take, think of it as the names we give ourselves on the forums here; their much cooler than their real names.


So in theory, there could be a daemon thats not specificly just a bloodletter or a nurgling? Like for instance, we find small items possessed by daemons here and there. Though not their allegiances are always said, they seem to be more free in their handling and not just a lesser or greater "slave" daemon (as one could call them). Hehe.


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## ThatOtherGuy

as I said before, technically yes, but again this is very iffy yes.


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## Androxine Vortex

A SM's body keeps it in shape and strong but what if a SM "worked-out"?
Would he become stronger? 
This is just something randumb I always wondered :laugh:

And why is it when daemons get banished they can't return for another 100 (or thousand, cant remember) years and a day. What's up with the day?


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## Baron Spikey

Androxine Vortex said:


> And why is it when daemons get banished they can't return for another 100 (or thousand, cant remember) years and a day. What's up with the day?


That's a superstition, the Ordo Malleus acknowledges that it can't actually substantiate those sorts of claims with any actual data.


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## Serpion5

Androxine Vortex said:


> A SM's body keeps it in shape and strong but what if a SM "worked-out"?
> Would he become stronger?
> This is just something randumb I always wondered :laugh:
> 
> And why is it when daemons get banished they can't return for another 100 (or thousand, cant remember) years and a day. What's up with the day?


I`m pretty sure a SM spends a good deal of his time training, working out and practicing his technique. It`s far more than just his implants that make him what he is. 

And daemons like a day`s notice before they can manifest again. :crazy:


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## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> And daemons like a day`s notice before they can manifest again. :crazy:


:laugh: That's a good one! Well at least they get a huge vacation


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## Serpion5

:laugh: Yeah, Baron answered that one, so a joke why not eh?


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## Baron Spikey

Serpion5 said:


> :laugh: Yeah, Baron answered that one, so a joke why not eh?


And that is the last one Baron will be answering in a while, I'll be on more at the weekends but I'm going to have to abdicate my throne of Fluff Lord during the weekdays as I'm getting home from work so late that I only have an hour or 2 before I need to be in bed for the next day's slog.

With those restraints on my time I can't properly weigh in on fluff matters so I nominate *Serpion5* (and *Angel of Blood* to help cover topics Imperial) to take my spot as Acting-Fluff Master alongside CotE from Monday-Friday :biggrin:


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## Mossy Toes

Space marines have a very full day when not in combat, full of training and battle practice and all that stuff. The Codex Astartes gives them a shocking(ly large :wink: ) 15 minutes of free time per day in which they can "reflect upon their duty to The Emperor," but many less-Codex chapters see this as a dangerous waste of time in which their minds might wander dangerously, so they drop it.

Source.


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## Serpion5

Baron Spikey said:


> And that is the last one Baron will be answering in a while, I'll be on more at the weekends but I'm going to have to abdicate my throne of Fluff Lord during the weekdays as I'm getting home from work so late that I only have an hour or 2 before I need to be in bed for the next day's slog.


Work picking up then? 



Baron Spikey said:


> With those restraints on my time I can't properly weigh in on fluff matters so I nominate *Serpion5* (and *Angel of Blood* to help cover topics Imperial) to take my spot as Acting-Fluff Master alongside CotE from Monday-Friday :biggrin:


Oh? I thought I already had.


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## Androxine Vortex

I read that the Defilers were constructed under the command of Abaddon but I was always under the impression that they were built from Perturabo due to his technology fascination and his possiblilty of being one of the Forge of Souls Masters.

Could it have been possible that they somehow worked together on it?


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## Serpion5

I`m only aware of Abaddon commanding the invent of the Defiler, I don`t know who actually designed it in the lore. This is however, according to the 3.5 CSM codex. 

The current CSM codex simply states its origins as being shrouded in mystery.


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## Malus Darkblade

Random Q:

Can the followers of Chaos use the Astronomican or do they get burned alive if they attempt to do so?

Arigato~


----------



## DasOmen

here's a nice little question i thought it would be rather nice to ask concerning what i'm getting myself into.

now, regarding a RP i just made, what is the normal length of time a inquisitor normally goes through before taking on death watch? also, how long do marines stay in death watch before going out on a mission? i assume there's a minimum time here, as the black paint possibly shouldn't be dripping wet.

another question that i need some answering to, regarding death watch (ok a lot of death watch questions, i know, but they're good for RP as it leaves marine players to stick with their favorite chapter, kinda wish i would see more ultra smurfs though)
what are normal armory load outs for "beggaring" bands of death watch? also what is the bare minimum a armory can be outfitted with and still be considered a adequate armory? what kind of armories would be considered under par?

now please, i'm actually being rather serous here, and would greatly appreciate the help for these questions as they could very well influence and or help the RP i just made.


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## Serpion5

Malus Darkblade said:


> Random Q:
> 
> Can the followers of Chaos use the Astronomican or do they get burned alive if they attempt to do so?
> 
> Arigato~


No idea. But considering that Navigators must undergo the soul binding ritual, it is possible that only they can "see" it in any sense. But then it is a common theory that the astronomicon is what drew the tyranids to this galaxy. 

In short, my guess would be that they can see it, but like Imperials looking at the EoT it may be quite an unpleasant experience. 



DasOmen said:


> here's a nice little question i thought it would be rather nice to ask concerning what i'm getting myself into.
> 
> now, regarding a RP i just made, what is the normal length of time a inquisitor normally goes through before taking on death watch? also, how long do marines stay in death watch before going out on a mission? i assume there's a minimum time here, as the black paint possibly shouldn't be dripping wet.
> 
> another question that i need some answering to, regarding death watch (ok a lot of death watch questions, i know, but they're good for RP as it leaves marine players to stick with their favorite chapter, kinda wish i would see more ultra smurfs though)
> what are normal armory load outs for "beggaring" bands of death watch? also what is the bare minimum a armory can be outfitted with and still be considered a adequate armory? what kind of armories would be considered under par?
> 
> now please, i'm actually being rather serous here, and would greatly appreciate the help for these questions as they could very well influence and or help the RP i just made.


Deathwatch astartes are recruited from various chapters and fielded in kill teams. An astartes will typically be joined to the ordo xenos for a year or two, I cannot remember exactly. 

As far as I know, an Inquisitor will be an acolyte for a number of years, so by the time he is an Inquisitor, he will probably have the experience needed to fulfill any role required of him. 

Not completely sure on armoury, but they will have specialist ammunition (like sternguard) as a bare minimum I would say.  

Hope I`ve been helpful.


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## Androxine Vortex

Serpion5 said:


> I`m only aware of Abaddon commanding the invent of the Defiler, I don`t know who actually designed it in the lore. This is however, according to the 3.5 CSM codex.
> 
> The current CSM codex simply states its origins as being shrouded in mystery.


That's what I figured


----------



## locustgate

Malus Darkblade said:


> Random Q:
> 
> Can the followers of Chaos use the Astronomican or do they get burned alive if they attempt to do so?
> 
> Arigato~


The astronomican is like a lighthouse in the warp, it also smoothes out the warp, but I imagine they could 'use' it with out bursting into flames like a vampire, should.


----------



## forkmaster

Androxine Vortex said:


> I read that the Defilers were constructed under the command of Abaddon but I was always under the impression that they were built from Perturabo due to his technology fascination and his possiblilty of being one of the Forge of Souls Masters.
> 
> Could it have been possible that they somehow worked together on it?





Serpion5 said:


> I`m only aware of Abaddon commanding the invent of the Defiler, I don`t know who actually designed it in the lore. This is however, according to the 3.5 CSM codex.
> 
> The current CSM codex simply states its origins as being shrouded in mystery.


If you listen to Garro: Oath of moment, it sounds like it is a Defiler that crushes the Space Marine Captain, so my guesses they took part in the battle of Calth under the command of the Word Bearers. But who created them I do not know.


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## Androxine Vortex

What would happen if a Blank went into the warp? I assume that their body would just fade away but would it do any "harm" to the warp's energies?

And while Blanks are on ships do they effect the warp at all by their prescence? I don't think they would because their shields act as a barrier (I think they are called Geller Fields?)


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## Serpion5

A blank in the warp would likely just die. Remember that a blank can be burned out just like a psyker, which would negate the effects of their null aura and render them as vulnerable to the warp as any mortal. 

When a blank is transported on a ship, all is as normal so long as they are kept far from the ship`s navigators and astropaths.


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## forkmaster

I got myself yet another question. Are there any women in the Mechanicum and/or the Ecclesiarchy?


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## Serpion5

The answer to both is yes. 

One example of a female techpriest is Felicia from the Ciaphas Cain series, and remember that adeptus sororitas is subservient to the ecclesiarchy. There are non militant ordos devoted to teaching and research, similar to nuns today.


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## Androxine Vortex

Wvery Chaos God represents a different emotion so what emotions would tie in with Malice? Rebeliousness? Self-hatred?

and one more question.

How long could a SM go without sleep?


----------



## Emperorguard500

1.. question- difference between custode and primarch

so the primarchs were created by the emperor.. using the emperor genetic material.. and the space marines (the first 20 legions) were created by the genetic material of the primarchs.... so what about custodes..

it is said custodes are a foot taller then space marines...and stronger, essentialy more powerful then a space marine.. 

what is the difference between a custode and primarch, there both bigger and stronger then a regular space marine.. 

is a primarch superior to a custode...

in the creation of the custodes did they use genetic material from the emperor like the primarchs, or something else


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## Androxine Vortex

Emperorguard500 said:


> 1.. question- difference between custode and primarch
> 
> so the primarchs were created by the emperor.. using the emperor genetic material.. and the space marines (the first 20 legions) were created by the genetic material of the primarchs.... so what about custodes..
> 
> it is said custodes are a foot taller then space marines...and stronger, essentialy more powerful then a space marine..
> 
> what is the difference between a custode and primarch, there both bigger and stronger then a regular space marine..
> 
> is a primarch superior to a custode...
> 
> in the creation of the custodes did they use genetic material from the emperor like the primarchs, or something else


Primarchs are superior to custodes, custodes are superior to SM
Their geneseed was more "directly" from the E

:Grin:

And just a tip make sure that the person above's question gets answered too. So if you wanted to ask a question then jsut say at the end of yours "hey make sure you answer Androxine's as well." thanks because my above questions are SOO much more important than urs 

woop


----------



## Dark Archon

Emperorguard500 said:


> 1.. question- difference between custode and primarch
> 
> so the primarchs were created by the emperor.. using the emperor genetic material.. and the space marines (the first 20 legions) were created by the genetic material of the primarchs.... so what about custodes..
> 
> it is said custodes are a foot taller then space marines...and stronger, essentialy more powerful then a space marine..
> 
> what is the difference between a custode and primarch, there both bigger and stronger then a regular space marine..
> 
> is a primarch superior to a custode...
> 
> in the creation of the custodes did they use genetic material from the emperor like the primarchs, or something else


Custodes are superior to marines but arent as powerful as primarchs. Ive read before that the custodes creation was first but it was far too slow to be used on a grand scale, and that they are genetically engineered as in born in a test tube.


----------



## Emperorguard500

Androxine Vortex said:


> Primarchs are superior to custodes, custodes are superior to SM
> Their geneseed was more "directly" from the E
> 
> :Grin:
> 
> And just a tip make sure that the person above's question gets answered too. So if you wanted to ask a question then jsut say at the end of yours "hey make sure you answer Androxine's as well." thanks because my above questions are SOO much more important than urs
> 
> woop


did the emperor use his geneseed for the custodes? like he did for the primarchs

also did the emperor create the custodes before he created the primarchs.. cause i remember reading somewhere that he created the custodes until he foudn a reliable space marine geneseed... but the space marines were created using the primarch's geneseed?

oh also answer androxine prior question:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


----------



## Serpion5

@Androxine: Malice represents self loathing and the self destructive nature of Chaos. He desires the destruction of the others, but will never amass the power to even be on the same level as them. 

@Emperorguard: The difference between a custode and a primarch is immense. 

A custode is supposedly created from the emperor`s own genetic coding, through a refined process not unlike that used with the primarchs. They are grown in a vat from infancy. This is the primary difference between them and astartes. Where a custode is completely manufactured so to speak, an astartes is a human "modified: by a primarch`s geneseed.

A primarch is one of the Emperor`s greatest works. He used his own genes to create them, to infuse them with a measure of his power. It was a similar process to creating the custodes, but there was one major difference. 

The Emperor used knowledge and power granted by the Chaos Gods to create the primarchs. That is why their power is so much greater.


----------



## Emperorguard500

thank you for clearing up my "custode/primarch" question.. now

can a SM from a certain chapter... can he switch to another chapter, for whatever reason

can a ultramrine switch to a a blood angel etc. etc... if wanted to


----------



## aboytervigon

Different geneseed it wouldn't work.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

aboytervigon said:


> Different geneseed it wouldn't work.


Then how come Honsou from the IW has mixed genes from IW and IF?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

The difference obviously being is that Honsou isn't an Imperial. Chaos Astartes Warbands could easily be made up of different Astartes bearing different geneseed (with a few exceptions), but its different for the Loyalists.

For the Imperials I very much doubt there would ever be an individual Astartes that would desire to join a different Chapter after having already joined a Chapter. But desire aside, each Chapter is a very proud and individual organisation, they would not just allow an Astartes of a different lineage join their own. An Ultramarine could not just _become_ a Blood Angel for example (and not just in the biological sense).


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> The difference obviously being is that Honsou isn't an Imperial. Chaos Astartes Warbands could easily be made up of different Astartes bearing different geneseed (with a few exceptions), but its different for the Loyalists.
> 
> For the Imperials I very much doubt there would ever be an individual Astartes that would desire to join a different Chapter after having already joined a Chapter. But desire aside, each Chapter is a very proud and individual organisation, they would not just allow an Astartes of a different lineage join their own. An Ultramarine could not just _become_ a Blood Angel for example (and not just in the biological sense).


No thats not what I meant. I just meant was his actual geneseed mixed with both Legions?


----------



## Emperorguard500

why were the blood angels feared cause of there curse of flawed geneseed they carried... since they got there geneseed from sanguinius.. was there something wrong with sanguinius geneseed


----------



## mcmuffin

The blood angels succumb to the red thirst as images of their primarch's death at the hands of horus, which is implanted in their geneseed. this causes a bloodlust and rage in the blood angels.


----------



## Diatribe1974

Androxine Vortex said:


> No thats not what I meant. I just meant was his actual geneseed mixed with both Legions?



Well, he is called a Half-Breed. Perhaps, somewhere along the way, he acquired the gene-seed material of the IF?


----------



## aboytervigon

@Androxine vortex
The imperials wouldn't do it fearing contamination.
@
Emperorguard500
It was the trauma from his death that left the black rage. The red thirst has always been there and Sanguinius didn't have a geneseed.


----------



## Emperorguard500

aboytervigon said:


> @Androxine vortex
> The imperials wouldn't do it fearing contamination.
> @
> Emperorguard500
> It was the trauma from his death that left the black rage. The red thirst has always been there and Sanguinius didn't have a geneseed.


sanguinius didn't have a geneseed?

can you explain that.. 

i always thought the primarchs were created using the emperor's geneseed.. and the space marine (the founding 20 legions) were created using the primarch's geneseed


----------



## Baron Spikey

Emperorguard500 said:


> sanguinius didn't have a geneseed?
> 
> can you explain that..
> 
> i always thought the primarchs were created using the emperor's geneseed.. and the space marine (the founding 20 legions) were created using the primarch's geneseed


Nope.

The Emperor created the Primarchs using his own genetic template (plus various other scientific and sorcerous methods) and then used the left over Primarch genetic materials to create the Astartes geneseeds.

Edit: Also it was the influence of Ka'Bandha that created the Black Rage, the death of Sanguinius just compounded and unleashed it an uncontrollable fashion.

Oh also from earlier about the Custodes...they're only minutely better than Astartes, certainly not significantly larger except in the most extreme of cases.


----------



## Emperorguard500

Baron Spikey said:


> Nope.
> 
> The Emperor created the Primarchs using his own genetic template (plus various other scientific and sorcerous methods) and then used the left over Primarch genetic materials to create the Astartes geneseeds.
> 
> Edit: Also it was the influence of Ka'Bandha that created the Black Rage, the death of Sanguinius just compounded and unleashed it an uncontrollable fashion.
> 
> Oh also from earlier about the Custodes...they're only minutely better than Astartes, certainly not significantly larger except in the most extreme of cases.


ok... thankyou


another question.... the race of the space marine chapters

i know the salamanders are pitch black.. and the white scars, are like mongolian... *but then the rest of the chapters are white males....*

is there any other chapter besides White scars and salamanders, that is not White Males.....


----------



## Diatribe1974

Emperorguard500 said:


> ok... thankyou
> 
> 
> another question.... the race of the space marine chapters
> 
> i know the salamanders are pitch black.. and the white scars, are like mongolian... *but then the rest of the chapters are white males....*
> 
> is there any other chapter besides White scars and salamanders, that is not White Males.....


If you read the books, you'd have known that many chapters pull prospects from many worlds and their skin colour does vary.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Emperorguard500 said:


> is there any other chapter besides White scars and salamanders, that is not White Males.....


Erm a lot of the Crusading Chapters (Imperial Fists and Black Templars being the most famous) will be made up of a number of physiological races.

Plus they're all going to be Males so mentioning that seems to be a moot point


----------



## Emperorguard500

Baron Spikey said:


> Erm a lot of the Crusading Chapters (Imperial Fists and Black Templars being the most famous) will be made up of a number of physiological races.
> 
> Plus they're all going to be Males so mentioning that seems to be a moot point


psychological races? what do you mean

meaning mixed up of white, black, asian etc. etc.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

My old question didn't get answered so i'll ask it again:
How long could a SM go without sleep?
(and when do you speculate they would normally sleep? yes I understand it varies)


----------



## Angel of Blood

Well they can rest one part of their brains whilst the other works, so theoretically they could never fully sleep.


----------



## NiceGuyEddy

Androxine Vortex said:


> My old question didn't get answered so i'll ask it again:
> How long could a SM go without sleep?
> (and when do you speculate they would normally sleep? yes I understand it varies)


No space marine has "succumbed" to sleep deprivation to my knowledge so theoretically they could last indefinitely through, like AoB says, resting half their brain but they do, or at least did, go fully unconscious when given a chance. The record for going without fully being unconscious (possibly out of date) is in a space marine codex (the one with a crimson fist on the cover) or possibly a Dark Angel codex from around the same time, I don't have either on me but it was no more than 100 days. It was a whole squad/company who had to remain in a state of constant vigilence for some reason or other.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Emperorguard500 said:


> psychological races? what do you mean
> 
> meaning mixed up of white, black, asian etc. etc.


Physiological is what he said, not psychological. Look similar, vastly different meanings. But yes, physiological as in mixed races, as crusading armies don't tend to have homeworlds(or any at all in the Black Templars case), they just recruit as they go which leads to a highly diverse selection of recruits from all ethnic and cultural origins.


----------



## locustgate

This has prbly been asked before but what is the normal Imperium fleet size, system defense and naval.


----------



## Dogbeard

As far as I know, there is no standard organization or order of battle. Most squadrons or taskforces are built around a battleship or heavy cruiser.

The Imperial fleet gathered to defend Tarsis Ultra in _Warriors of Ultramar_, for instance, was composed of the _Argus_, a Victory-class battleship; the _Sword of Retribution_, an Overlord-class battlecruiser; the _Kharloss Vincennes_, a Dictator-class cruiser converted to a dedicated carrier; three Dauntless-class light cruisers; three Sword-class frigates and six Cobra-class destroyers, as well as the attached Space Marine strike cruisers _Vae Victus_ and _Mortis Probati_. This was a considerable force gathered specifically to counter a tendril of Hive Fleet Leviathan and not the standard monitor ships of the system, which probably wouldn’t have amounted to much more than a handful of destroyers or smaller ships at most.

There were only a few patrol cutters and picket ships to defend the world of Adumbria in _The Traitor’s Hand_, but the Armageddon-class battlecruiser _Indestructible II_, two Falchion-class frigates and three destroyers did arrive to defend the planet from a Chaos attack.

At the Battle of Gethsemane, the pivotal battle of the Gothic War, Admiral Ravensburg had amassed the bulk of Battlefleet Gothic, which amounted to seventeen capital ships (two battleships, two battlecruisers, and thirteen cruisers and light cruisers), and twenty escorts (frigates and destroyers).

System defenses would vary from system to system. An important forge world or sector capital would likely have at least one or more Ramilies-class star forts (or other large defense platform/space station) in orbit in addition to maybe a dozen or more monitor vessels, scores of gunboats and other orbital and ground based defense batteries. Segmentum capitals would have really massive defenses with naval assets coming and going all the time, while small population agri-worlds would have virtually nothing aside from maybe a patrol vessel or two.


----------



## ThatOtherGuy

Alright mates, I have some questions for you:

I don't know how deep GW went with this but what is the Well of Eternity? Some back ground history would be nice.

The Deceiver is a master at schemes, lies and tricks, but does he do this for the here and now or is his plans always aimed for the future? If they are aimed for the future, how far down the road?

Is there a specific date for the origins of the old ones or is it one of those ambiguous things?

Any answers would be deeply appreciated. Might even rep for some really good info...


----------



## Dogbeard

The only place I recollect reading about the Well of Eternity is in the background for Fateweaver in the Chaos Daemons Codex. It's described as being the very centre of reality, "where space and time originate and end," and a place where even Tzeentch fears to tread. Presumably, it is a metaphysical location that encompasses all of Time and Space, the originating point of the universe.

The Deceiver ultimately seems to be playing a long game, but he's also somewhat capricious and doesn't seem to shun a bit of mischief. He was the primary agent in convincing the Necrontry to become the Necrons, and may also have been responsible for the C'tan turning on and devouring each other until only four remained (he definitely is the one who betrayed the Nightbringer to the Old Ones and their allies). By 40K, he's been awake for thousands of years, roaming the galaxy and laying the groundwork for his larger plans.

The C'tan and Necrons went into hibernation roughly 60 million years ago; the War in Heaven lasted many thousands of years, and the Old Ones were an old race of virtual immortals by the time it started. There is no specific timeline for the Old Ones, but they are supposed to have been among the oldest races to travel the stars of our galaxy. Considering that the galactic disk formed approximately 10 billion years ago, they could be really, really, _really_ old.

Cheers.


----------



## Serpion5

ThatOtherGuy said:


> I don't know how deep GW went with this but what is the Well of Eternity? Some back ground history would be nice.


This is most likely a piece of filler fluff that will never have consequence beyond Fateweaver`s backstory. Much like the World Tree in the Warcraft Lore, it is the origin of all the power of the universe. If I were to speculate, I would say it is the part of the warp that represents the moment of creation and also the moment of ending of this universe.



ThatOtherGuy said:


> The Deceiver is a master at schemes, lies and tricks, but does he do this for the here and now or is his plans always aimed for the future? If they are aimed for the future, how far down the road?


The Deceiver could almost be considered a combination of Tzeentch and Cegorach. His plans are far reaching and impossible to fathom, as seen in the Eye of Terror Campaign. However, he is not above playing petty games for his own amusement, as seen in Deus Ex Mechanicus.



ThatOtherGuy said:


> Is there a specific date for the origins of the old ones or is it one of those ambiguous things?


No specific dates are given for anything beyond humanity`s history and rise to power. A loose order of events can be gleaned from sources like the necron and eldar codexes. The Old Ones were the first terrestrial life forms to achieve sentience and interstellar travel. 


Dogbeard has some good information as well.


----------



## forkmaster

Oh I got myself one of those annoying questions again. I dont have my own Eisenhorn book available at the moment but you can try your best. Well in the book, the old g/f of Eisenhorn works at the local "university" if Im not misstaken. What is the High Gothic version for saying university? Is it universiat or something like it?


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I think I may have asked this before but if the Necrons don't feed on souls then what do they feed on? Is it just material energy like stars or living things?


----------



## Dogbeard

@forkmaster, universitariate.

@AV, I think the C'tan basically feed on the life essence of living beings, leaving their souls (the warp essence, for lack of a better term); they can survive on the energy emitting by stars, but they find life energy more satisfying. The Necrons themselves don't seem to consume life energy, merely kill things of behalf of their C'tan masters.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Dogbeard said:


> @forkmaster, universitariate.
> 
> @AV, I think the C'tan basically feed on the life essence of living beings, leaving their souls (the warp essence, for lack of a better term); they can survive on the energy emitting by stars, but they find life energy more satisfying. The Necrons themselves don't seem to consume life energy, merely kill things of behalf of their C'tan masters.


I thought that they harvest living energy for their masters. What would profit the C'tan in just killing?


----------



## Dogbeard

I don't think it's ever been suggested that Necrons harvest life energy themselves; they simply seem to snuff life out where they find it. Originally, the Nightbringer harvested the Necrontyr, consuming their life energy, but after they were enslaved as the Necrons, he turned his attention to other races. When not specifically directed by their C'tan masters, the Necrons (in particular the Lords, who still have memories of life) harbor a deep and abiding resentment for all life, which seems to lead them to want to destroy it.

It's rumored that in the next Necron Codex, the C'tan will be more removed and the Necron Lords will take a more central role in guiding the Necrons and their actions; I suppose we'll just have to wait and see if this is the case.


----------



## forkmaster

Dogbeard said:


> I don't think it's ever been suggested that Necrons harvest life energy themselves; they simply seem to snuff life out where they find it. Originally, the Nightbringer harvested the Necrontyr, consuming their life energy, but after they were enslaved as the Necrons, he turned his attention to other races. When not specifically directed by their C'tan masters, the Necrons (in particular the Lords, who still have memories of life) harbor a deep and abiding resentment for all life, which seems to lead them to want to destroy it.
> 
> It's rumored that in the next Necron Codex, the C'tan will be more removed and the Necron Lords will take a more central role in guiding the Necrons and their actions; I suppose we'll just have to wait and see if this is the case.


When I read Nick Kymes SM battles novel, it do sound like the Necron Lord can think and move for himself! I havent finished it, but there is a small piece with the Necron in it (I think).


----------



## Serpion5

There is much more in _Fall of Damnos_ than a mere piece on the necrons.  

@Andro. the energy the c`tan feed on is physical energy. The essence of a star for example, or the biological energy that flows through a human`s nervous system or the like. 

The actions of the necrons at present are fairly different to that which they will do when the Great Work is completed. Presently, they are raiding, gathering resources and strength, and eliminating military threats to their dominance. 

In the bleak future envisioned by Farseer Maechu, the necrons and pariahs have humanity enslaved on behalf of the c`tan, acting as overseers and wardens for their cattle whilst the c`tan themselves feed at will. (_Source; Necron Codex_)


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Some questions I hope anyone can answer

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Battle_for_Orar's_Sepulchre

Has there been any new mention as to why the Eldar wanted this scepter? And was it originally crafted by the Eldar?


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gauntlets_of_Ultramar 

These gauntlets were obtained by Guilliman from a Chaos champion. Were they tainted ? If so, how was Guilliman able to use them or did he simply wipe the taint away somehow?

The Gamalia Reclusiam Massacre, is there any mention as to what took place here?

Thanks.


----------



## ThatOtherGuy

I have another important question.

I was reading into my friend's chaos codex and there was a small article about Black Heart Huron and how once in a while slips into a alternate persona and becomes "Black Beard Huron". It states that he all of a sudden grows a giant black beard and wears an eye patch and starts raiding "the seven segmentus" with his wild crew of chaos sea dogs and scalliwagons for about ten years. I am wondering to myself is this canon?


----------



## Epidemius

When someone is hit with a bolter (let's say a cultist or guardsman), is it a huge explosion of fire and gore, or is it something smaller where only something like a section blows off?


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Epidemius said:


> When someone is hit with a bolter (let's say a cultist or guardsman), is it a huge explosion of fire and gore, or is it something smaller where only something like a section blows off?


The former minus the fire.


----------



## Serpion5

ThatOtherGuy said:


> I have another important question.
> 
> I was reading into my friend's chaos codex and there was a small article about Black Heart Huron and how once in a while slips into a alternate persona and becomes "Black Beard Huron". It states that he all of a sudden grows a giant black beard and wears an eye patch and starts raiding "the seven segmentus" with his wild crew of chaos sea dogs and scalliwagons for about ten years. I am wondering to myself is this canon?


Ahem. Yes. This is as true as anything else written in any codex.


----------



## SaintTom

OK, I've got a quick question which i had recently been wondering about.

Do you think it would be possible to have female marines from exposure to the warp, or at least for the Slaaneshi cult marines. (This question is for the possibility in Chaos marines only, obviously.)


----------



## Serpion5

No. You could have gifted women who have received "blessings" from the gods, but no god given gifts would be so precise as the transformation from human to astartes. 

To the best of my knowledge and reasoning anyway.


----------



## SaintTom

Serpion5 said:


> No. You could have gifted women who have received "blessings" from the gods, but no god given gifts would be so precise as the transformation from human to astartes.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge and reasoning anyway.



What i mean to say is a kind of gender-swap of the astartes, not them turning human again. I had found some pretty awesome conversions for female chaos space marines and it made me wonder about it; that and the comments the makers received that women cant be astartes.


----------



## Serpion5

I suppose that would be (slightly) more plausible, but even so, an astartes is dependant on male hormones in order to be an astartes. If they were turned into females, I imagine there would be loss of faculties involved, possibly failure of extra organs and maybe even death. 

So my answer remains most likely no.


----------



## SaintTom

Hm, I suppose that would be true, though with placements of daemonic gifts or their own kind of bionics they probably could get around those losses. It's an interesting thought and I appreciate your replies Serpion, though I'll keep my mind open to it for now.


----------



## Serpion5

There is nothing to stop females from being daemonically gifted so long as they meet their god`s requirements. 

In fact the third Ciaphas Cain book features a Daemon Princess of Slaanesh who was a former witch.


----------



## SaintTom

Ah yes that's true, can't forget about that green eyed temptress (or did he describe them as emerald.. I'll have to go look through my book for it now). Though I was asking just mainly for a kind of character that wasn't really full daemon and who wouldn't be out of place leading a CSM force; being the ruthless, cruel, strong, and ambitious characters we all know and love. :victory:


----------



## forkmaster

**Spoiler alert***

So I didnt have the courage to start a thread of my own so I went here instead. So after rethinking about the events from the short story "The Rebirth", we have one lone Thousand Son left, he is a part of the Corvidae order (which according to someone on Facebook is the family name for raven). He has seen into the future and could tell this wasnät the planet he would die on. Is it possible he is the start of the Blood Ravens Chapter? He could be looking for other survivors.

Edit: Also I know Blood Ravens from the TS threads are highly hated by now, but I just wanted to share this thought.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

forkmaster said:


> **Spoiler alert***
> 
> So I didnt have the courage to start a thread of my own so I went here instead. So after rethinking about the events from the short story "The Rebirth", we have one lone Thousand Son left, he is a part of the Corvidae order (which according to someone on Facebook is the family name for raven). He has seen into the future and could tell this wasnät the planet he would die on. Is it possible he is the start of the Blood Ravens Chapter? He could be looking for other survivors.
> 
> Edit: Also I know Blood Ravens from the TS threads are highly hated by now, but I just wanted to share this thought.


Its possible. There are a few implications in _Rebirth_ which point that way at least.


----------



## Tyrannus

Something has been bugging me recently and that is:

What happens to the souls of exodite Eldar? 

Do they have spirit stones to protect them from Slaanesh? or do they not have to worry about him?

And if they have spirit stones, do they have their own infinity circuit or can they be linked with the main Eldar one?

(Eldar fluff is not my strong point so apologies in advance if my question about the infinity circuit sounds stupid)

Thanks in advance for the help!


----------



## Serpion5

Exodite eldar use a system similar to the infinity circuit. It is called the Spirit pool or some such and is linked to the planet itself in some way. 

In essence, it works the same way as the infinity circuits. Exodites do use waystones in this process.


----------



## SlamHammer

If Supreme Grand Master Lord Kaldor Draigo is stuck in the Warp, who is gonna open the box with Terminus Decree when everything goes to shit?


----------



## Serpion5

The current acting Grand Master?


----------



## SlamHammer

Serpion5 said:


> The current acting Grand Master?


Only the Supreme Grand Master knows how to open it and Draigo is the only Supreme Grand Master. There are 7 other Grand Masters, but they left Draigo's position open as he still lives.

On another note, what if he dies before he passes it on? Oh man, the Imperium is screwed...


----------



## Serpion5

Regardless, they have to have someone acting in his stead while he is absent. 

That individual will be the one to open the box.


----------



## Chompy Bits

Obviously Twat Ward. He's gonna have himself cryogenically frozen and hidden deep beneath the earth's surface in about five years time, only to be reawakened when the Imperium needs him most. Like a scrawnier version of Bjorn.


----------



## locustgate

How far can a teleporter well teleport you.
I got to wondering this while playing DOW 2.


----------



## Serpion5

Depends on the teleporter I guess. Personal teleporters don`t seem to have anything beyond a minor skirmish or battlefield range while a fully functioning array can reach into an underground complex from orbit.


----------



## locustgate

Serpion5 said:


> Depends on the teleporter I guess. Personal teleporters don`t seem to have anything beyond a minor skirmish or battlefield range while a fully functioning array can reach into an underground complex from orbit.


What about from planet to planet


----------



## Chompy Bits

What's the deal with the Rynn's World fluff? Some fluff have the Crimson Fists with the help of some pdf units defeating them, where as the actual novel _Rynn's World_ has the Orks dominating and the Fists getting their asses saved by a massive imperial fleet at the last second. So which is it?

Personally, the novel just makes more sense to me (you can call my biased, I don't care). It's described that the Orks conquered nearly the entire planet, with the exception of the capital. I find it hard to believe that less than 300 marines and some humans managed to take the planet back on their own after that.


----------



## locustgate

Chompy Bits said:


> What's the deal with the Rynn's World fluff? Some fluff have the Crimson Fists with the help of some pdf units defeating them, where as the actual novel _Rynn's World_ has the Orks dominating and the Fists getting their asses saved by a massive imperial fleet at the last second. So which is it?
> 
> Personally, the novel just makes more sense to me (you can call my biased, I don't care). It's described that the Orks conquered nearly the entire planet, with the exception of the capital. I find it hard to believe that less than 300 marines and some humans managed to take the planet back on their own after that.


I go by the books usually over the dexes the books exist for the fluff dexes for the rules and basic fluff.


----------



## Serpion5

locustgate said:


> What about from planet to planet


Never read anything on it. I`m pretty sure the range would not extend that far. Generally speaking, long range vox signals are strained at those distances sometimes depending on the size of a system, and teleportation strikes me as something a fair bit more complex. But I don`t think that`s definitely been written anywhere. :dunno:


----------



## locustgate

What is the destroyer virus? If someone says it's a virus I'm going to hit them with a devilfish


----------



## Epidemius

If someone with a power sword were to touch the flat end of the weapon to the back of someone's neck, what would happen?


----------



## Serpion5

locustgate said:


> What is the destroyer virus? If someone says it's a virus I'm going to hit them with a devilfish


Never heard of it. Are you referring to the necron`s destroyer _curse_ by chance?

If so it refers to the degeneration that occurs with a necron`s mind over time. As they grow more and more hateful, they lose any semblance of mortality they once had and become little more than hate filled murderers. Necron Destroyers are of the Immortal class, having replaced their legs and weapons in favour of a destroyer body and heavier gun to increase their destructive potential. They are "victims" of the curse.

Virus I believe is the flayer version, which is essentially the opposite; a desire to live again which compels them to wear the skin of their enemies like it was their own. It is called the Flayer virus and Flayed Ones are shunned by other necrons for fear of contracting the virus from them. 

Or are you thinking of something else?



Epidemius said:


> If someone with a power sword were to touch the flat end of the weapon to the back of someone's neck, what would happen?


It would burn them. Probably quite severely. Then again, I have read of someone having a power knife put to their throats and only feeling a slight tingling. It would probably not be pleasant either way.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

"243.M32	Inquisitor Damakso first postulates that Chaos gods must use mortals to manifest their power in the physical universe.	White Dwarf 259"

Came across this randomly, don't know if it's accurate or not.

If it is then how is it that post HH, the basics of the Chaos powers are not yet understood by the upper echelons of the Imperium?


----------



## Serpion5

I don`t think that`s relevant anymore, considering that daemons can tear their own way into reality, or their god can do it for them according to Codex Chaos Daemons.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Came across this too.

544.M32 'The Beast Arises'.	Warhammer 40,000 5th Edition Rulebook

What/who do you think the beast refers to?

@serp: Daemons can't tear their way into reality on a whim, they have to have a beacon and etc etc. My question however has nothing to do with this rather why is something as huge as the fact that the Chaos powers feed off of the emotions of mortals a discovery post HH.


----------



## locustgate

Serpion5 said:


> Never heard of it. Are you referring to the necron`s destroyer _curse_ by chance?
> 
> If so it refers to the degeneration that occurs with a necron`s mind over time. As they grow more and more hateful, they lose any semblance of mortality they once had and become little more than hate filled murderers. Necron Destroyers are of the Immortal class, having replaced their legs and weapons in favour of a destroyer body and heavier gun to increase their destructive potential. They are "victims" of the curse.
> 
> Virus I believe is the flayer version, which is essentially the opposite; a desire to live again which compels them to wear the skin of their enemies like it was their own. It is called the Flayer virus and Flayed Ones are shunned by other necrons for fear of contracting the virus from them.
> 
> Or are you thinking of something else?


Typhus host to the Destroyer hive that's as much as I know.


----------



## Dogbeard

The Destroyer Plague was the plague that ravaged the Death Guard when their fleet was stuck in the Warp while on the way to Terra during the HH. It's what turned them into Plague Marines and prompted them to swear allegiance to Nurgle in order to avoid suffering and dying from the Destroyer.

Having led Mortarion and the Death Guard into the trap, Typhus was the only survivor of the Destroyer Plague aboard the _Terminus Est_, and he abosrbed the disease into himself, becoming the Host of the Destroyer Hive in the process.


----------



## aboytervigon

Also when he was about to die from the disease one word granted him the power.




"more"


----------



## Dogbeard

Malus Darkblade said:


> Came across this too.
> 
> 544.M32 'The Beast Arises'. Warhammer 40,000 5th Edition Rulebook
> 
> What/who do you think the beast refers to?
> 
> @serp: Daemons can't tear their way into reality on a whim, they have to have a beacon and etc etc. My question however has nothing to do with this rather why is something as huge as the fact that the Chaos powers feed off of the emotions of mortals a discovery post HH.


I don't think there is anything established about The Beast except that one referrence; good fodder for BL though.

Knowledge of Chaos was pretty limited by Mankind prior to the HH; the Emperor largely kept it that way, presumably with the idea that what you don't know can't hurt you. He certainly understood what the Ruinous Powers were and were capable of doing, but he didn't share this information, not even with Magnus.

Post HH, the Inquisition, in particular the Ordo Malleus, has attempted to learn as much as possible about Chaos in order to defeat it, but this knowledge is still kept secret and only revealed to those who need to know. It's possible that even some High Lords of Terra know next to nothing about Chaos, since, for instance, the Chancellor of the Estate Imperium or the Grand Provost Marshal of the Adeptus Arbites probably have no real need to know about the supposed workings of Chaos.


----------



## Serpion5

Dogbeard has the answers correctly.  

Sorry Locust, my mind instantly thought of the necron virus when you said destroyer. :laugh:


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Dogbeard said:


> The Destroyer Plague was the plague that ravaged the Death Guard when their fleet was stuck in the Warp while on the way to Terra during the HH. It's what turned them into Plague Marines and prompted them to swear allegiance to Nurgle in order to avoid suffering and dying from the Destroyer.
> 
> Having led Mortarion and the Death Guard into the trap, Typhus was the only survivor of the Destroyer Plague aboard the _Terminus Est_, and he abosrbed the disease into himself, becoming the Host of the Destroyer Hive in the process.


Typhus = biggest d*** in Warhammer


----------



## JaqTaar

@Dogbear:
The Arbites often fight heretics and work with the Inquisition, so I'd rather doubt that the Arbites in general and their supreme leader in particular do not know quite a bit about Chaos.


----------



## Dogbeard

Yes, the Arbites deals with heretics, some of whom are under the influence of Chaos, and occasionally works with the Inquisition, but they don’t typically deal with Chaos in a direct manner. I’m sure every High Lord knows at least the basics about Chaos (daemons of the warp, Chaos Space Marines, etc.), but the Inquisition keeps the in-depth knowledge to themselves. The bulk of the Adeptus Arbites (arbitrators, chasteners and judges) wouldn’t really know much about the workings of Chaos, and if they did, the Inquisition would probably come calling to find out why.


----------



## Driesco

Hey guys, I have a quick question, is it possible for a Chaos Space Marine chapter to worship both Khorne and Nurgel? Like some of them worship Nurgle and others Khorne, but their in the same chapter?


----------



## JaqTaar

Dogbeard said:


> ... but the Inquisition keeps the in-depth knowledge to themselves.


That's a given. It's just the expressions "next to nothing" and "no real need to know about..." that gave me pause since they do investigate and research similarly to the Inquisition, albeit on a smaller/lower level.


----------



## locustgate

Driesco said:


> Hey guys, I have a quick question, is it possible for a Chaos Space Marine chapter to worship both Khorne and Nurgel? Like some of them worship Nurgle and others Khorne, but their in the same chapter?


Yes they can.
P.s. stupid word min


----------



## Serpion5

Driesco said:


> Hey guys, I have a quick question, is it possible for a Chaos Space Marine chapter to worship both Khorne and Nurgel? Like some of them worship Nurgle and others Khorne, but their in the same chapter?


Possible yes. Pending the situation of course. Some Legions and Warbands such as the Black Legion for instance would switch alleigance on a regular basis and consist of squads currently worshipping two or even more gods. 

This would not happen in other cults. The World Eaters for example, serve Khorne exclusively.


----------



## Driesco

Thanks for the help guys! You're the best!


----------



## forkmaster

locustgate said:


> What about from planet to planet


As I understand the IW short story in _AoD_ and _Fireborn_, at least someone in power armor are able to teleport from planet to orbit. Also in Purge of Kallidus, we have Orks able to teleport to different worlds.



Driesco said:


> Hey guys, I have a quick question, is it possible for a Chaos Space Marine chapter to worship both Khorne and Nurgel? Like some of them worship Nurgle and others Khorne, but their in the same chapter?


Legions and Renegade Chapters that are Chaos Undivided can worship any or none of the Gods. (I know the question is already answered but I wanted to give my part as well).  In those warbands it could be down on a individual level which patron you follow, Uzas in Night Lords series for example. Also, the Cult Legions (each following strickly one God) doesnt have to be stereotypical Slaaneshi or Khornate. Look at the first Eisenhorn novel. You got a pretty normal not crazy Emperors Child there.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

http://imgur.com/r/pics/IoJIy


Imperial tank?


----------



## Tzeen Qhayshek

Malus Darkblade said:


> http://imgur.com/r/pics/IoJIy
> 
> 
> Imperial tank?


I would say no. It looks too "modern."


----------



## locustgate

Tzeen Qhayshek said:


> I would say no. It looks too "modern."


It's suppose to be a post apoc art...atleast that, I think, I find it on tons of post apoc forums.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Didn't you guys get a closer look at it? Pretty sure the Imperial Aquila is painted on the side of the tank hull.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Now you are all going to chastise me for asking such a stupid question but all this time I was going on my own assumptions. Roughly how tall are SM and primarchs and aprox. how much do you think either could bench press?

(yes the first question is alittle more serious but still...)


----------



## kwak76

In most BL novel they describe the SM to be over 2 meters tall which is 6 feet 6 inches roughly but in the novel they describe them to be over 2 meters so I would say 7 feet. So 7-8 feet for SM .
A primarch is describe to be a foot taller than a SM so 9-10 feet tall. 

Bench press no idea ...there has been allot of debate on how strong a SM is.


----------



## kwak76

I have question. I'm still new to the Warhammer 40 K. I see that the biggest threat to Imperium is chaos but what is the second biggest threat? 

I don't consider Elder to be a threat since they are small in numbers. Nor Tua (not yet) since they are still developing and the Tua don't just destroy everything. Orks I think can be a threat but I see the orks not being too bright and fighting too much among themselves to really be a true threat. 

I think with Necrons you just have to avoid a tomb world or just blow up it from space ( Am I right about Necrons that we can just blow them up from space? )

..so are the Tyranids the second biggest threat to the human race?

Would this order be correct for threat to man kind. 
1.Chaos
2. Tyranids
3. Orks
4. Necrons
5. Dark elder 
6. themselves 

I know this is opinion question but I like to see how others reason this. If there is a separate thread about this my apologies .


----------



## Dogbeard

The Tyranids could potentially take down the Imperium before Chaos manages it, which would really piss Chaos off since they've been trying for 10,000 years and the Nids have only been at it for a few centuries. It basically depends on whether or not there are Hive Fleets bigger than Leviathan on the way.

The Necrons could also pose a greater existential threat to the Imperium and humanity in general than the Orks, simply because the numbers of Necrons is unknown and its extremely unlikely that the Orks could be united in sufficient numbers and for long enough to actually topple the Imperium. Plus, there are wild cards, such as the Outsider and the Void Dragon, which could destabilize the Imperium. Necron tomb worlds aren't defenseless against orbital attack, and their fleets, though generally small, are very powerful; the Necron world engine was incredibly powerful...a sort of 40K death star.

From the Ciaphas Cain novels, we do know that the Emperor and the Imperium survive at least into the 2nd century of the 42nd Millennium. Cheers.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

The greatest threat to the Imperium would be the Eldar. They outnumber us 100 to 1
:laugh:


----------



## Serpion5

I`d give it as;

Tyranid,
Chaos,
Ork,
Necron,

Potential notwithstanding, you must also consider the urgency of said threat. Tyranids are constantly on the move and constantly aggressive on a massive front, so they easily take top spot. Chaos is ever present, and lies near the heart of the Imperium but they are not a unified force as with the nids. Orks are a similar story. Necrons, despite having the power to demolish star systems in a matter of hours and wipe out enemy fleets with ease, simply don`t have the same urgeny as the others. Chances are they will eclipse all others, but they are eternal and hence easily willing to play the longer game just as they have before.


----------



## Boc

Working on some continuance to a story, and I need to know...

How large is a strike cruiser? Can't seem to find the answer...


----------



## aboytervigon

bigger than a bread box but smaller that a very large bread box.


----------



## Boc

Where I'm from bread comes in bags... so not too useful


----------



## Dogbeard

It's established in _Relentless_ that a Lunar-class cruiser is "over three kilometres long." _BFG: Vessels of the Imperium_ says that Strike Cruisers are slightly less massive than Dauntless-class light cruisers. Assuming the Dauntless is around 2km long, a Strike Cruiser is probably 1.5-2km in length.

Here are a couple of links you might find interesting, though I can't vouch for their canonical accuracy:

Battlefleet Gothic Scale Chart
Starship Dimensions


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I was reading my Collected Visions book and it said that the Thousand Sons also attacked Terra. I did not know that they did, I just assumed that they remained on the Planet of Sorcerors. Does it ever explain how they actually got to Terra? 
In the book it basically says they were being attacked on Prospero, then they got sucked away into the warp or either they just got teleported (not sure on this so if you could confirm this that would be great) and then they are attacking Terra.


----------



## Serpion5

They joined with Horus shortly after Prospero was razed.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> I was reading my Collected Visions book and it said that the Thousand Sons also attacked Terra. I did not know that they did, I just assumed that they remained on the Planet of Sorcerors. Does it ever explain how they actually got to Terra?
> In the book it basically says they were being attacked on Prospero, then they got sucked away into the warp or either they just got teleported (not sure on this so if you could confirm this that would be great) and then they are attacking Terra.


As _Serp_ said, they joined Horus shortly after the Burning of Prospero and besieged Terra along with the other traitors. Maloghurst mentioned in _Galaxy in Flames_ IIRC (or it could have been _Fulgrim_) that they had been contacted by Magnus, and Magnus is also present amongst the traitors during their first full council post-Isstvan V (as mentioned in ADB's extract from _Aurelian_). So it would seem he joined Horus very quickly after the Burning of Prospero.


----------



## forkmaster

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> As _Serp_ said, they joined Horus shortly after the Burning of Prospero and besieged Terra along with the other traitors. Maloghurst mentioned in _Galaxy in Flames_ IIRC (or it could have been _Fulgrim_) that they had been contacted by Magnus, and Magnus is also present amongst the traitors during their first full council post-Isstvan V (as mentioned in ADB's extract from _Aurelian_). So it would seem he joined Horus very quickly after the Burning of Prospero.


Galaxy in Flames, its right after or before they bomb Issvan III one more time.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

okay thank you very much


----------



## Boreas9

Hey new to the site, which is awesome, got a couple of questions. Been going through this thread all day and hope im not repeating any questions.

1. If the Emp established science over religion, why is the timeline still b.c. and a.d. based? Does it just make things easier since history and time has already been recorded that way?

2. Did the Emperor command the Officio Assassinorum or did he just turn a blind eye and let them handle there own accords while Malcador dealt with them? (Got thought from Nemesis and never really got a solid answer) and which instances were they used generally? (Not like each Temple but like targets and scenerios)

3. I get mixed reviews on how Astartes armour deals with chain melee weapons. Can chainswords and such penetrate Astartes armour fairly easily or does it have to go through weak points?


----------



## forkmaster

Boreas9 said:


> Hey new to the site, which is awesome, got a couple of questions. Been going through this thread all day and hope im not repeating any questions.
> 
> 1. If the Emp established science over religion, why is the timeline still b.c. and a.d. based? Does it just make things easier since history and time has already been recorded that way?
> 
> 2. Did the Emperor command the Officio Assassinorum or did he just turn a blind eye and let them handle there own accords while Malcador dealt with them? (Got thought from Nemesis and never really got a solid answer) and which instances were they used generally? (Not like each Temple but like targets and scenerios)
> 
> 3. I get mixed reviews on how Astartes armour deals with chain melee weapons. Can chainswords and such penetrate Astartes armour fairly easily or does it have to go through weak points?


1) I would guess its out of convenience he never got around to really change it that much, and I think the Emperor want to show how long Mankind has been around and flourished.  To start over would be kinda lame.

2) I would say he let them go around doing their own business, Malcadore went behind the Emperors back actually when commanding them on these missions, but the Emperor showed he knew all along, and only at the failure did he put an end to it.

3) I would say it could bite it way through on most spots on the armor strange enough.


----------



## forkmaster

I got a quetion about Gaunts Ghosts. After the 3rd book they absorbed many new recruits, many of them deaf because of the shelling, including one of the snipers. But in the later books, its completely forgotten that they are deaf and they speak normally one of them, I believe in the Only In Death. Is it explained how that got fixed?


----------



## Dogbeard

Cochlear implants maybe? Dunno. Never really noticed, but it's a funny discrepancy.


----------



## Serpion5

Whenever something like that happens, Alpharius did it.


----------



## Klomster

I have no idea to as to where i should post this one.

But here goes, more like a fan-fluff thing.

My titans princeps is the brother of the grand master of legio inferna, Leonatus Ephirion.
Since it is his brother, he will have the same last name.

But i cannot in the world come up with a name as cool as Leonatus for the brother.
So i need a first name for the brother, suitably awesome sounding.
Someone help me out?


----------



## Serpion5

Look to biblical names for some cool ones. 

Eseau, Castiel, Goliath and such...


----------



## Klomster

Ok, i'll check a few out.

Check alot of them out, but non spoke to me.

I've also tried random generators.


----------



## Dogbeard

How about some Spartan names: Alcamenes, Anaxander, Anaxidamus, Archidamus, Ariston, Cleomenes, Leonidas, Lycurgus, Pausanias, Pleistoanax or Polydorus.

Or go Roman: Agrippa, Caelus, Decius, Drusus, Flavius, Furius, Gaius, Gnaeus, Licinius, Lucius, Octavius, Quintus, Sempronius, Servius, Tiberius, Titus or Valerius.


----------



## Boreas9

Ive been reading through a bunch of stuff about psykers and pariahs and blanks and im just kind of mixed up on information. I was wondering what are the differences between blanks and pariahs?

And also why is the Dark Age of Technology considered "dark" when it produced such things like the Gellar field, warp drive, STC and Navigators?


----------



## Tzeen Qhayshek

Boreas9 said:


> And also why is the Dark Age of Technology considered "dark" when it produced such things like the Gellar field, warp drive, STC and Navigators?


It is a designation by the current anti-progress, theocratic Imperium. I believe, during the Great Crusade, it was referred as the Golden Age of Technology. Basically, it is a name to reflect the times.


----------



## locustgate

Boreas9 said:


> Ive been reading through a bunch of stuff about psykers and pariahs and blanks and im just kind of mixed up on information. I was wondering what are the differences between blanks and pariahs?


I don't remember which but one is invisable in the warp and one blocks out the warp.


----------



## Dogbeard

Honestly, I've never really seen a difference between blanks, nulls, untouchables and pariahs. They all seem to be relatively interchangeable terms for people with anti-warp characteristics, sometimes attributed to having no soul. About the only thing I might postulate is that pariahs might generally have a more potent negative warp effect, so it might be a matter of degrees; or it might refer specifically to individuals who carry the "pariah gene," which was allegedly introduced into the human gene pool by the C'tan god the Deceiver in order to create Necron Pariahs.


----------



## Serpion5

Aye, blanks are all more or less the same just given different names. 

They are immune to the direct effects of possession and the warp, and block warp activity within their immediate vicinity. 

Much like psykers, their abilities can be focussed and enhanced with the correct training.


----------



## Boreas9

Thanks a lot guys!!! Very helpful


----------



## kwak76

How many chaos space marines are there? After the heresy about roughly half of the legion ran to the eye of terror but I'm not sure how many actually lived. 

For loyalist space marines there is close to a million base upon 1000 chapters and 1000 sm per chapter. 

So is there roughly million chaos space marine too or less. I think allot less..but is there any figures.


----------



## Serpion5

There are no set numbers for CSM as far as I am aware. But I am pretty sure they are fewer in number than loyalists based on the numbers at the end of the Heresy. 

However, the figures for _Renegade_ SM could be anywhere close or even higher than Chaos SM. After all, newer chapters fall to Chaos just as easily as the old legions did.


----------



## Dogbeard

The size of the pre-heresy legions varied greatly, from just a few thousand (Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children) to more than a hundred thousand Space Marines (Ultramarines and Word Bearers). Of the original traitors, there would almost certainly be fewer than a million left alive in M41, but since the traitors legions have methods of replenishing their numbers (including as Serpion points out renegades joining up with chaos warbands), the overall number of CSM could only be guessed at.


----------



## forkmaster

Some CSM have a thing about coming back from the dead!  Some Legions however have some questioning ways of how they fill up their ranks (if they wont come back from the dead mysteriously), like the Death Guard and Thousand Sons since neither have acceptable gene-seed anymore and slowly have their numbers decreasing.  After Prospero and battle of the Fang there seems to only a handful left of the TS.

Edit: Also, Im looking for the term mutants call themselves instead of saying "mutant" in the Eisenhorn series?


----------



## Serpion5

Forkmaster, I believe you`re thinking of Twists.


----------



## forkmaster

Serpion5 said:


> Forkmaster, I believe you`re thinking of Twists.


Thank you very much. 

Also I got another question. It is said Rogal Dorn died in a Black Crusade. Is it the first BC by Abaddon (since the 2nd is way long after any Primarchs death/disappearence) or is it just a random BC by someone? According to Lexicanum, there were 3 other BC with no link to the Despoiler apparently. 

Edit: Also I wonder about Third Claw in Blood Reaver. **spoiler alert**

Im a bit confused. Are they Blood Angels renegades or are they Night Lords of another warband that had joined the Exalted recently?


----------



## forkmaster

And some more questions about the ending of Blood Reaver. In the end, did Maruc (the night slave) die at the hands of the Red Corsair and the Red Corsair, did he turn into a daemon prince of Nurgle?


----------



## Boreas9

Couple questions about the Eye of Terror

1. Its a gateway right? As if a shaip drives into it, it will take them to where the daemon worlds are?

2. When ships warp travel, do they basically enter into the warp where also the daemon worlds are and the stomping grounds of Khaine and such as they watched over the eldar?


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Boreas9 said:


> Couple questions about the Eye of Terror
> 
> 1. Its a gateway right? As if a shaip drives into it, it will take them to where the daemon worlds are?
> 
> 2. When ships warp travel, do they basically enter into the warp where also the daemon worlds are and the stomping grounds of Khaine and such as they watched over the eldar?


well technically in the warp there are no "worlds" there isn't any physical things inside it, it is just pure psychic emotion. In the warp that is where daemons exist but there isn't anything physical such as worlds in there. it took me awhile to fully grasp the concept of the warp.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Is there anything that happens to the souls of those who are loyal to the Emperor and the Imperium? Someone said something about the E guarding them because of their faith but i didn't know for sure.

I wonder what they believe will happen when they die?


----------



## Boc

Androxine Vortex said:


> Is there anything that happens to the souls of those who are loyal to the Emperor and the Imperium? Someone said something about the E guarding them because of their faith but i didn't know for sure.
> 
> I wonder what they believe will happen when they die?


They believe that those worthy will be basically saved from the warp until the "final battle," at which point all the loyal sons of the Imperium (not sure about the daughters outside of the Sisters!) will stand by the Emperor and finish the war with Chaos once and for all.

In all likelihood, though, since the only 'spirit world' is the warp, their souls are just gobbled by the dark gods, and everything they strove to achieve through their righteous living was all for naught.


----------



## ThatOtherGuy

That or they simply dissolve into the warp. Most likely the latter.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

ThatOtherGuy said:


> That or they simply dissolve into the warp. Most likely the latter.


well wtf then there really is no point in not joining Chaos. Unless you realise you dont want to be a dark gods plaything but by that time you will be begging for it


----------



## Serpion5

Boreas9 said:


> Couple questions about the Eye of Terror
> 
> 1. Its a gateway right? As if a shaip drives into it, it will take them to where the daemon worlds are?
> 
> 2. When ships warp travel, do they basically enter into the warp where also the daemon worlds are and the stomping grounds of Khaine and such as they watched over the eldar?


Where does it say anywhere that the EoT is a gateway? It is a region of space where the warp and realspace overlap each other. Worlds exist there as surely as they exist anywhere else, however they are often governed by different laws than normal. Warp travel is dangerous unless you have powerful friends in the area though. 

Daemon worlds technically remain in the materium, simply becoming warp portals through which daemons can enter at will. 

And yes, the warp is/was the abode of the gods. The real nature is something difficult to explain, especially to someone new to the concept. 



Androxine Vortex said:


> well wtf then there really is no point in not joining Chaos. Unless you realise you dont want to be a dark gods plaything but by that time you will be begging for it


For the most part, a human soul simply disappaites. Stronger souls may remain intact long enough to be consumed by daemons, and the strongest may maintain a presence far longer. In any case, various sources have shown that there are far more pleasant fates than eternal damnation.


----------



## Boreas9

Serpion5 said:


> Where does it say anywhere that the EoT is a gateway? It is a region of space where the warp and realspace overlap each other. Worlds exist there as surely as they exist anywhere else, however they are often governed by different laws than normal. Warp travel is dangerous unless you have powerful friends in the area though.
> 
> Daemon worlds technically remain in the materium, simply becoming warp portals through which daemons can enter at will.
> 
> And yes, the warp is/was the abode of the gods. The real nature is something difficult to explain, especially to someone new to the concept.


 
Sorry I didnt do a good job asking. I think I understand now, because I was confused when I kept reading about Chaos forces fleeing to the EoT and thought that it was a gateway to the warp, not a region of space where worlds dwell and daemons linger. My bad


----------



## El_Lobo

*Timeline/warp travel*

Quick question I have for the Longfangs,

How did the Imperium use warp travel before the Heresy and the Emperor being confined to the Golden Throne? As I understand the series of events the navigators are a very old mutation at least as old as the Dark Age, but the Big Guy didn't actually start powering the Astronomicon until after his fight with Horus. 

Terra is used as the central point used for warp navigation right? So The Emperor couldn't really broadcast this beacon while traveling all over the place during the Crusade as he would always be moving?

So my main question is how did they navigators well...navigate before the end of the heresy? 

Cheers :drinks:


----------



## Serpion5

The warp was much calmer back then, and presumably there was far less need for a beacon. This ended with the Age of Strife, as Slaanesh was slowly forming and causing warp storms to isolate many worlds including Terra. 

When Slaanesh was born, the storms disappaited. However at this point, the warp had become far more tumultuous to travel through due to the growing power of Chaos. The Emperor established the Astronomicon as a focal point for Navigators to use when travelling.


----------



## Sheep Overlord

When commissar cadets are attached to a unit, are they given the unit's uniform, do they wear special uniforms to mark them as cadets, or do they dress as typical commissars?


----------



## Angel of Blood

In the first Gaunts Ghosts book, First and Only, Ibram Gaunt is shown in flashbacks breifly when he was cadet and it says at one point 

"Cadet Gaunt led the men personally, as Oktar would have done, the lasgun held tighly in his hands, his blue-trimmed cadet commissar uniform perfectly turned out."

So yeah, from this it would seem they have their own uniform to mark them out as Commissar Cadets.


----------



## Serpion5

Ciaphas Cain confirms this, commissar cadets wear the same uniform. 

What sets a full commissar apart is the crimson sash, which Cain makes a ceremony of giving to one of his cadets when he is about to die in the line of duty.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I was reading my Colected Visions book and during the Siege of Terra it mentions the Titan Legion called the Storm Lords. Does this have any relation to the White Scars Chapter the Storm Lords?

(If I remember correctly, the Titan Legion was under the command of Horus)

And since we are speaking about Titan legions, I understand that the Titan "Dies Irae" is in the possesion of the Iron Warriors (They used it in the assault at Tor Christo) 
Is the entire Legio Mortis under the command of the IW? I know that the titan legions are very incorporated with the IW but also how did they get the Dies? Was it originally an IW Titan?


----------



## SonOfStan

Probably re-asking some stuff, but I can only read so many posts.

1.) Whatever happened to The Interex, that human/xenos empire that Horus encountered?

2.) If the wolves on Fenris aren't really wolves, because there are no wolves on Fenris, then what are they?

3.) How many boltgun rounds can a single Space Marine bolter magazine hold? How large is a boltgun round? 

4.) How hot is the heat/promethium from a heavy flamer?


----------



## Serpion5

SonOfStan said:


> 1.) Whatever happened to The Interex, that human/xenos empire that Horus encountered?


It seems to be assumed that they were destroyed, given that they`ve not been mentioned since. 



SonOfStan said:


> 2.) If the wolves on Fenris aren't really wolves, because there are no wolves on Fenris, then what are they?


Kittens.  Seriously though, they _are_ wolves. _There are no wolves on Fenris, or rather there weren`t until we arrived._ Or something like that.



SonOfStan said:


> 3.) How many boltgun rounds can a single Space Marine bolter magazine hold? How large is a boltgun round?


Depends on the specs of the clip. I don`t know myself but there are a variety of boltgun variants with differing designs. 



SonOfStan said:


> 4.) How hot is the heat/promethium from a heavy flamer?


Really hot. Like fire.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Well i always thought of Promethium being quite similar to Napalm at times and Napalm can burn to over 5000 degrees fahrenheit


----------



## SonOfStan

Serpion5 said:


> Kittens.  Seriously though, they _are_ wolves. _There are no wolves on Fenris, or rather there weren`t until we arrived._ Or something like that..


 
Iiiiiii think there's got to be more to it then that. When Hawser brings it up during the Council of Nikea, Russ says something to the extent of, "There are wolves, and you know what they really are." Of course, being as it's written by Dan Abnett nothing further is said on the subject.

And as for the promethium, it has to be hotter then just your run of the mill fire if it's capable of killing a power-armored SM.


----------



## Serpion5

Promethium is a fictious substance that is used as fuel as well as ammunition. Chances are it is very similar to some fossil fuels and is found in mines underground, so that`s the assumption I was making.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Promethium does exist but in the 40k-verse it's completely unlike it's real world counter-part. As has been stated it has similar properties to a Napalm/Petrol Jelly hybrid, and in _Vulkan_ (I believe it was that book, a recent one at least) Space Marines are willing to walk through a torrent of natural flame because it won't damage their armour unlike the tenacious, intensity of Promethium-fuelled flamers.


----------



## Serpion5

That`s true, probably should have mentioned. 

For those curious, real promethium is this stuff.

Naturally, it has little to do with the fuel used in SM flamers. On the similarity to Napalm, I am not well educated on modern (ish) weapons enough to comment.


----------



## Dogbeard

SonOfStan said:


> Iiiiiii think there's got to be more to it then that. When Hawser brings it up during the Council of Nikea, Russ says something to the extent of, "There are wolves, and you know what they really are." Of course, being as it's written by Dan Abnett nothing further is said on the subject.


PROSPERO BURNS SPOILERS


I believe the whole "There are no wolves on Fenris" line is about the belief that the Fenrisian wolves are the dead. Longfang tells Hawser that the black wolf that saved him was Brom.


----------



## SonOfStan

SWEET theory. That is now what I officially believe until otherwise disproven.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

(I'm reposting this since this question of mine was up for awhile and wasn't answered)

I was reading my Colected Visions book and during the Siege of Terra it mentions the Titan Legion called the Storm Lords. Does this have any relation to the White Scars Chapter the Storm Lords?

(If I remember correctly, the Titan Legion was under the command of Horus)

And since we are speaking about Titan legions, I understand that the Titan "Dies Irae" is in the possesion of the Iron Warriors (They used it in the assault at Tor Christo) 
Is the entire Legio Mortis under the command of the IW? I know that the titan legions are very incorporated with the IW but also how did they get the Dies? Was it originally an IW Titan?


----------



## Angel of Blood

Very much doubt the two Storm Lords are connected. The titan Legios and the Astartes Legions were two seperate bodies. The Legions would be attatched to various expeditions either by choice or request i supose. And seeing as they Storm Lords titan legion were pre-heresy and during the heresy, whereas the Storm Lords chapter came after, i can't see it being anything other than the same name.

As for the Dies Irae, it's never said how it came to be fighting alongside the Iron Warriors. It was part of the Legio Mortis, which again were a completely seperate entity to the legions. And during the Crusade and the Heresy, the Dies Irae was part of the 63rd Expedition under the Warmaster.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I have heard of regular humans being possesed by a daemon but is it possible for one to ascend to daemonhood? I guess it's possible just not likely


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Androxine Vortex said:


> I have heard of regular humans being possesed by a daemon but is it possible for one to ascend to daemonhood? I guess it's possible just not likely


Yes its possible. In fact the very first daemon princes were ascended to the warp long before Astartes even existed (_Doombreed_ for example). Its not just humans either, xenos are capable of being ascended into the ranks of the daemonic as well.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Androxine Vortex said:


> I have heard of regular humans being possesed by a daemon but is it possible for one to ascend to daemonhood? I guess it's possible just not likely


Just like it's possible but unlikely for an Astartes to ascend to daemonhood- neither has more or less of a chance.


----------



## IntoTheVoid

1) Why do Dark Eldar not worship She Who Thirsts and just try to appease ? Also, why does she want Eldar souls so badly incomparison to other species ? Are they extra tasty ?

2) Would it be possible for a Chaos Lord to be drawn into the Webway, then get lost chasing Dark Eldar (quite easy I imagine) then somehow get out the webway (if so how because isnt Khan still down there (apparently ?))

3) What is in the Segmentum Tempestus and can the Ruinous powers strike there ?

4) Why can't the Imperium travel to other Galaxys yet the Orks are believed to be elsewhere, Tyranids too ?

5) Why dont Eldar just have lots of babies and take over the Galaxy in a frenzy of sex and war ? (Even though that does suspiciously sound like how the fall occurred..))


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

IntoTheVoid said:


> 1) Why do Dark Eldar not worship She Who Thirsts and just try to appease ? Also, why does she want Eldar souls so badly incomparison to other species ? Are they extra tasty ?


They don't worship the Dark Prince for numerous reasons, mainly because Slaanesh devoured almost the entire Eldar civilisation and the souls of the majority of the Eldar population. Aside from that Slaanesh constantly seeks to devour the remaining souls of the remaining Eldar, Dark Eldar avoid Slaanesh at all costs in order to save themselves from eternal torment.

Slaanesh and the Eldar are linked in a way that in a strange way kind of makes Slaanesh an Eldar god (although obviously not exclusively). Slaanesh desires the souls of the Eldar above all others essentially because of this link and their highly psychic nature.



IntoTheVoid said:


> 2) Would it be possible for a Chaos Lord to be drawn into the Webway, then get lost chasing Dark Eldar (quite easy I imagine) then somehow get out the webway (if so how because isnt Khan still down there (apparently ?))


Basically is it possible to exit the webway once you have entered it? Yes of course. For one who doesn't have even a fractured map or clue where he is going though, it would be difficult and more down to luck in order to find an exit.



IntoTheVoid said:


> 3) What is in the Segmentum Tempestus and can the Ruinous powers strike there ?


The Imperium is divided into five segmentums, Segmentum Tempestus being one of them. Yes, the Chaos powers can strike there.



IntoTheVoid said:


> 4) Why can't the Imperium travel to other Galaxys yet the Orks are believed to be elsewhere, Tyranids too ?


Primarily because the gulf inbetween galaxies is incomprehensibly vast, therefore making travel incredibly difficult. But also because there is simply no need for the Imperium to branch out that far (nor have they had opportunity), the Imperium barely covers a fraction of the Milky Way Galaxy, why would they even attempt to expand to another galaxy without having even explored most of the Milky Way?



IntoTheVoid said:


> 5) Why dont Eldar just have lots of babies and take over the Galaxy in a frenzy of sex and war ? (Even though that does suspiciously sound like how the fall occurred..))


You hit the nail on the head, because thats essentially how the Fall occured. If the Eldar descended back to the ways of their forefathers (of the Empire) Slaanesh would essentially just consume them. The Dark Eldar are different however, they do continue to act pretty much exactly as their forefathers did, yet they maintain barriers of protection against She Who Thirsts. Reestablishing the Empire as it was simply isn't feasible with Slaanesh around.


----------



## Baron Spikey

IntoTheVoid said:


> 1) Why do Dark Eldar not worship She Who Thirsts and just try to appease ? Also, why does she want Eldar souls so badly incomparison to other species ? Are they extra tasty ?


The Eldar created Slaanesh so they suffer a constant drain of their vital essences if not protected in some manner. The Dark Eldar have no more to desire to worship their greatest nemesis, and most terrible fear, than any other race would.



IntoTheVoid said:


> 4) Why can't the Imperium travel to other Galaxys yet the Orks are believed to be elsewhere, Tyranids too ?


The distances are just too vast, the distance between this galaxy and the next is countless times greater than the entire breadth of the Milky Way.



IntoTheVoid said:


> 5) Why dont Eldar just have lots of babies and take over the Galaxy in a frenzy of sex and war ? (Even though that does suspiciously sound like how the fall occurred..))


Conceiving is a rare thing amongst the Eldar, when they were virtually untouched by warfare that was all fine and grand. Their birth rate far outweighed the mortality rate, now that they're embroiled in combat the reverse is true- it's a biological impossibility for them to recoup their numbers in the current 'climate'.


----------



## IntoTheVoid

Thanks alot guys, I appreciate it alot, and one last thing, what does the webway look like ?


----------



## Serpion5

IntoTheVoid said:


> Thanks alot guys, I appreciate it alot, and one last thing, what does the webway look like ?


Descriptions vary by source, but it is essentially a tunnel network. Appearance may in fact vary according to position, as there are settlements and spaceports and the like still positione within, most of which form a part of the Dark Eldar city of Commoragh. So a dark citadel amidst a seemingly endlees network of tunnels of varying size is an appropriate image there. 

Other sources cite differently, for instance in _Path of the Warrior_ a group of aspect warriors move through a section of webway to emerge on a battlefield. This was described as walking through a wall of light with no sense of direction or movement, simply emerging on the other side after a short while. 


I`m more inclined to believe the DE side of it, the webway consists primarily of corporeal tunnels linking various worlds and containing numerous realms of its own.


----------



## forkmaster

If you have seen the later seasons of Stargate, I always imagined its like stepping through the gate. A blue tunnel through the galaxy pretty much.


----------



## forkmaster

Also I wonder, which of these things happened first. Did the battle of Skalantrax or the epic battle between Fulgrim and Guilliman come first?


----------



## Angel of Blood

forkmaster said:


> If you have seen the later seasons of Stargate, I always imagined its like stepping through the gate. A blue tunnel through the galaxy pretty much.


Thats exactly what i was going to say :victory:

In regards to the second question. Not sure a date is given for either of them...must go have a look


----------



## Baron Spikey

Well Fulgrim bitch slaps Guilliman 100 years after the Heresy, so if you can find out how soon after the Heresy Kharne splinters his own Legion you should have your answer k:


----------



## forkmaster

Well my own theory is that when they fled to the Eye of Terror, the Legion was still "whole", then on Skalantrax, their Legions broke. Then after that, Fulgrim mustered those still "loyal" and attacked Guilliman since it would be a major outnumbering if a whole Legion met just the Ultramarines Chapter (if even all that).  But I could be wrong.


----------



## IntoTheVoid

When a new Space Marine Chapter is founded, do they just say take 10 marines from a few chapters, or just one and say here you go, get busy recruiting ?


----------



## Angel of Blood

Generally they would be given a world to recruit aspirants from, naturally a hardy world with naturally tough inhabitants etc. Then 'x' amount of Astartes from the chapter the successor is being made from would transfer to the new chapter too make up the command staff for the companies and chapter itself, likely veterans, sergeants etc and i imagine a company captain for the chapter master. Theirs no concrete way, but thats the general idea i get.


----------



## locustgate

What do the salamanders on Nocturn look like, I want to know if I can use the zombie dragon for my chaos Salamanders.?


----------



## SaintTom

locustgate said:


> What do the salamanders on Nocturn look like, I want to know if I can use the zombie dragon for my chaos Salamanders.?



You probably could use it as it's been warped by chaos so it wouldn't look just like normal salamanders. :dunno:

Is there any more information on the Vitrians shown in the gaunt's ghosts books? I'd love to convert some if I could know more about them and what their armor looked like.


----------



## locustgate

SaintTom said:


> You probably could use it as it's been warped by chaos so it wouldn't look just like normal salamanders. :dunno:
> 
> Is there any more information on the Vitrians shown in the gaunt's ghosts books? I'd love to convert some if I could know more about them and what their armor looked like.


Wow the sad thing is this is more helpful than the thread I made.


----------



## SaintTom

locustgate said:


> Wow the sad thing is this is more helpful than the thread I made.


Well I'm glad I could help out. :victory:


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Shadow Knight.

A short story by ADB.

Has it been realeased yet?

I stumbled upon a lexi link on it and it lists everything in detail so I stopped reading it once I realized this.

ADB has a post about its release date, it says August. 

I still need to know _when _ exactly. lol


----------



## Mob

Malus Darkblade said:


> Shadow Knight.
> 
> A short story by ADB.
> 
> Has it been realeased yet?
> 
> I stumbled upon a lexi link on it and it lists everything in detail so I stopped reading it once I realized this.
> 
> ADB has a post about its release date, it says August.
> 
> I still need to know _when _ exactly. lol


It's in the latest Hammer and Bolter, available right now.


----------



## Rems

It was originally released as a limited edition novella along with a salamanders story from Nick Kyme's series.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Yeah had a brain fart, didn't see it but I have it now. Thanks.


----------



## khrone forever

if baneblades etc. are so rare why dont they just make more? and dont say because they dont have the STC because couldnt they just take one apart and replicate all the pieces and put it back together???


----------



## Mob

khrone forever said:


> if baneblades etc. are so rare why dont they just make more? and dont say because they dont have the STC because couldnt they just take one apart and replicate all the pieces and put it back together???


They do make more - not all Baneblades are 10,000 years old or whatever - but it's a very long and complex process to achieve and of course only Mars has the full Baneblade STC.
And while taking one apart to see how to build a new one is tech-Heresy, something related has happened - other Forge Worlds have been allowed to develop inferior patterns.
Something to think about is that the AdMech is a religious institution and so building new ones isn't as simple as some factory manager deciding that they should build some more, and that building this stuff isn't a foolproof process; when you don't really understand how something exactly works, putting it together (especially in a ceremony that has who-knows-what uneccessary and potentially dangerous trappings as well as stages probably artificially slowed for prayer, contemplatio etc) isn't as simple as pressing Start on a production line.
The implication of things taking a long time to build - to me, anyway - is that not only are the processes artificially slowed compare to what they need to be in a non-religious situation, but that things go wrong.


----------



## Black Legionare

If the emporer was still up and running (before horus hurt him) what would happen if he met a chaos imperator titan? Imagine it's just the two.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Titan gets ripped in half, or something suitably more awesome. Magnus killed a titan, and the Emperor is much more powerful than him, and he could manipulate/'heal' machines as evidenced in _Mechanicum_, probably can destroy them quite happily aswell.

Either way i don't fancy the titans chances at all.


----------



## locustgate

Angel of Blood said:


> Titan gets ripped in half, or something suitably more awesome. Magnus killed a titan, and the Emperor is much more powerful than him, and he could manipulate/'heal' machines as evidenced in _Mechanicum_, probably can destroy them quite happily aswell.
> 
> Either way i don't fancy the titans chances at all.


2 words: What Titan? There wouldn't even be an atom left.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

If someone is possesed by a daemon can they ascend to daemonhood?


----------



## NiceGuyEddy

Androxine Vortex said:


> If someone is possesed by a daemon can they ascend to daemonhood?


Fulgrim did.


----------



## Braakbal

Exactly how awesome would a chapter made up completely of chapter-masters be ?


----------



## Boc

Not very, they'd all squabble over who got to be in charge. Not to mention, then you've got roughly 999 leaderless chapters on the loose


----------



## Braakbal

let me rephrase then; How awesome would a chapter made up completely of chapter masters be, once they've established a proper chain of command?


----------



## Androxine Vortex

NiceGuyEddy said:


> Fulgrim did.


Well does teh daemon still "live with him" What happens to the daemon if they ascend? And could you ascend if you were possesed and the daemon had control? (because it would be like a daemon ascending to daemonhood if that makes sense) 



Braakbal said:


> let me rephrase then; How awesome would a chapter made up completely of chapter masters be, once they've established a proper chain of command?


They would all become Draigo


----------



## forkmaster

I got myself a wondering, exactly what Company is the Blood Ravens from DOW II and its expanions attached to? Ive heard different that they are a part of 4th under Thule, and then apart of the "Fated" 5th.


----------



## Serpion5

I take it from the novel over the game, with that in mind it is said they are the 5th.


----------



## SaintTom

What would Slaaneshi/Chaos Eldar look like? Basically just like Dark Eldar but living on the Crone worlds?


----------



## forkmaster

Serpion5 said:


> I take it from the novel over the game, with that in mind it is said they are the 5th.


Okay thank you very much. That explains alot since I watched vids from the games where they say the 4th. 

Next question, on a scale, how possible would you think it is for a Slaaneshi Chaos warband to capture a Dark Elda alive to use for personal gladiator games to please their God?


----------



## Serpion5

SaintTom said:


> What would Slaaneshi/Chaos Eldar look like? Basically just like Dark Eldar but living on the Crone worlds?


Quite possibly. There are no records of this occuring within any canon I`m aware of, but neither is it completely written out as impossible. I imagine they would resemble Dark Eldar ot else Chaotic versions of craftworld or exodite eldar. It would depend on Eldar aesthetics prior to the fall which is difficult to know for certain since their technologies and ideals diverted from each other.



forkmaster said:


> Okay thank you very much. That explains alot since I watched vids from the games where they say the 4th.
> 
> Next question, on a scale, how possible would you think it is for a Slaaneshi Chaos warband to capture a Dark Elda alive to use for personal gladiator games to please their God?


Unlikely, but not impossible. Given the insurances DE take before they make realspace raids, I`m sure any individual dark eldar would prefer to die rather than be taken alive by servants of Slaanesh.


----------



## Angelofdeath690

I couldn't find out if anyone knew this and its been bugging me a little to try and find out. What is the fleet number designation given to Fleet Gothic?


----------



## Freakytah

I'm sure this question has been asked before, but I searched around and couldn't find it...are people able to walk around outdoors on Terra/what's the environment like?

If all the oceans have disappeared long ago, I would think the surface temps would skyrocket since our oceans act as a temp buffer. I'd also think the atmosphere would have disappeared to since there's a good amount of water in it. Are there void shields or some other sort of protection ever mentioned? 

Thanks, and sorry again if this has been covered multiple times before!


----------



## Serpion5

Pretty sure the atmosphere is regulated artificially. 

The surface is buried beneath hundreds of metres of built up city. 

Think Coruscant from Star Wars, but much much... Grimdarker. :biggrin:


----------



## Black Legionare

Is a Space Marine sterile? And the fluff says how a female can't participate in the Legion trials (Pre-Space Marine Training), but they never go into it, so my other question is why?


----------



## Angel of Blood

Indeed astartes are impotent, maybe even castrated(i know right, think about that when you pick space marine on those 'what would you want to be' threads!!). 

As for females. /Puts on crash helmet. Physically, women just aren't as strong as males and only the best of the best are selected to become astartes, why would they take a woman, even if she is at peak fitness, when a male would still be stronger and more likely to pass the trials to become an astartes. 

That and i imagine the gene-seed is specifically made for males on a genetic level.


----------



## Zymosis

current edition codes SM, details sternguard 'special ammo', i have a recelection, but can't find the thing, that one of the last two codex marines had a good 'wargear' section that detailed bolter ammo and armour.
in short there are lots of bolter ammo types. 
'power armour' is also a steriotype. there are many different types and mk's. most seem to be made of tough armour plates, but have weaker joints etc as all armour does.
i'm sure i've read that some 'power armor' actually links to the marines nervous system, allowing them to fel through it. 
i'd imagen any powerfull blast or well placed blast would 'wound' a marine or his armour enough to take him out of a battle.

human to marine ? um they are chosen before the end of puberty, implanted, intured for several years as far as i'm aware. befor emerging and if alive, joining the scouts.

i'd expect tech adepts simply train on their nearest forge-world, ould be a pain if they all have to go to mars.
that said, all sanctoned psykers are ment to visit earth, sorry, holy terra for soul binding.

heres one. most imperial fleet battles pictured always have craft fighting in the same plane. why not have some at odd angles . i didn't think there was an 'up' in space.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Quick question.

How did the Emperor infuse Russ's/the Space Wolves DNA with that of the actual wolves on Fenris if he never set foot on that planet prior to reuniting with Russ?

Or did I miss something?


----------



## Greenskin

This is a question that I have never seen addressed in any of the official fluff that I've read: What do Space marine apothicaries do with the gene seed from librarians? Space marine chapters must carefully guard their geneseed against mutation. growing geneseeds inside of a psyker seems like a pretty quick way to destroy the purity of the gene seed lines. Wouldn't seeds taken from librarians be tainted by the psyker DNA of the host?

The easy answer would be that librarian gene seeds must be used only for other librarians. Does this sound accurate? it is said every five years, one of the two gene seeds may be harvested from a living space marine, given the small number of librarians in a chapter, it seems they wouldn't need to harvest from librarians nearly as often because they wouldn't have a use for all that psyker gene seed.

Can a librarian recruit use the gene seed from a non-psychic marine?

One final thought -- how come we never hear about scout-level librarians?


----------



## Rems

@ Greenskin. 

Psychic potential has nothing to do with gene-seed so yes a psychic marine can have non psychic gene-seed implanted in him just as a normal marine could have a librarians gene-seed implanted in him and suffer no ill effects. Given the level of reverence and superstition that Astartes attach to the gene-seed though (and the general Imperium wide prejudice against psychers) and you'd likely find that librarian gene-seed is only used for other librarian aspirants. 

As to your second question the Soul Drinkers book Chapter War features a scout level librarian. He goes about his training in much the same manner as the rest but with extra psychic lessons and scrutiny, just as i imagine it would be for most chapters. 

@Malus where does it say the Space Wolve's gene-seed has any genetic material from Fenresian wolves? I know there's the Canis Helix but that's a rather different issue. Even if they do in fact have some (which i doubt given that i've never seen a source for it and He didn't know Russ would have landed there or he would have then by extension known all the Primarchs landing zones and fates and thus retrieved them earlier.) the Emperor has been around for many thousands of years so he could have visited Fenris in the past.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

I don't think it's stated but rather simply implied. But I just remembered that the wolves on Fenris aren't really wolves (or ar they? *cue dramatic music) but perhaps the Canis Helix was derived from the wolves the first colonists brought with them (assuming they did)?

I was thinking he probably visited Fenris in the past but then I asked myself how? The ships required to travel the distance to Fenris pre-warp could only have existed during the Dark Age of Technology I would imagine. 

If not then the Emperor would have had to spend years in hibernation using post-DaoT ship or just staying awake to reach Fenris given it's distance from Terra.


----------



## Rems

Erm what exactly do you mean pre warp? The warp, and warp travel has always been around. That's what humanity has always used for faster than light travel since they first colonised the stars. 

It became more difficult and dangerous during the Age of Strife yes, but just that period.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Oops meant pre-daot


----------



## General-jwj

I just finished reading McNeill's "Dead Sky, Black Sun" from the Ultramarines series, and at the end of the book one thing still confuses me.

So : it's explained that the Iron Warriors from Warsmith Honsou's Grand Company (that he recently inherited from another warsmith) use creatures called "the daemonculaba" to replenish their number of marines.

In the book, they're mutated human females fed a ground down paste of Iron Warrior corpses, and it seems, that when a human (not too old, probably a teenager) is placed within its womb, he comes out some time later as a fully grown Space Marine with all the trapping and genetic modifications that entails (except for some reason he comes out skinless) ... they refer to this practice as "hot housing" I think, because essentially it turns a human into a fully fledged space marine relatively quickly and without too much required in the way of surgery. (though it does produce a very high number of defects, "The Unskinned", Marines so deformed they're unusable bu the Iron Warriors and that devolve into little more than savages)

Do all CSM use such methods to acquire new marines, or is it something specific to the book or Honsou's Grand Company.
He also raids a fortress near the Eye of Terror before the story proper begins and acquires a stash of Gene-Seed it held within, but it was mentionned that he gave most of it to Abaddon's legion and kept some for himself.

So, secondary question I guess : is stealing loyalist gene-seed and using it on enslaved populations or cultists the CSM's main method of recruitment ?


----------



## Rems

The daemonculaba have only ever been mentioned in _Dead Sky Black Sun_ so as far as we know yes, only Honsou's doing it. However it's not too much of a stretch to assume other warbands might do the same or something similar providing they had the resources and some powerful sorcerers. The warp can do all sorts of weird and wonderful things. 

As to other methods of recruitment i imagine it varies based on what resources the warband has available. If they had the gene-seed and the facilities they could implant it on suitable humans, willing or unwilling. Or as you said they can steal loyalist (or other chaos marine) gene-seed to use. They might lack the capability and instead turn to renegade apothecaries such as Fabius Bile. In _Blood Reaver_ the Night Lords warband abducts a lot of pregnant women as fresh slaves and to provide new aspirants in the future. 

Due to such, sporadic, recruitment measures i imagine their numbers intake is very low and opportunistic rather than systematic.


----------



## Serpion5

General-jwj said:


> I just finished reading McNeill's "Dead Sky, Black Sun" from the Ultramarines series, and at the end of the book one thing still confuses me.
> 
> So : it's explained that the Iron Warriors from Warsmith Honsou's Grand Company (that he recently inherited from another warsmith) use creatures called "the daemonculaba" to replenish their number of marines.
> 
> In the book, they're mutated human females fed a ground down paste of Iron Warrior corpses, and it seems, that when a human (not too old, probably a teenager) is placed within its womb, he comes out some time later as a fully grown Space Marine with all the trapping and genetic modifications that entails (except for some reason he comes out skinless) ... they refer to this practice as "hot housing" I think, because essentially it turns a human into a fully fledged space marine relatively quickly and without too much required in the way of surgery. (though it does produce a very high number of defects, "The Unskinned", Marines so deformed they're unusable bu the Iron Warriors and that devolve into little more than savages)
> 
> Do all CSM use such methods to acquire new marines, or is it something specific to the book or Honsou's Grand Company.
> He also raids a fortress near the Eye of Terror before the story proper begins and acquires a stash of Gene-Seed it held within, but it was mentionned that he gave most of it to Abaddon's legion and kept some for himself.
> 
> So, secondary question I guess : is stealing loyalist gene-seed and using it on enslaved populations or cultists the CSM's main method of recruitment ?



The daemonculaba are only attributed to Khalan Gol as far as I`m aware. Though given the diversity of the Chaos Legions and warbands, I`m sure similarly revolting methods are used elsewhere. 

The capture of loyalist geneseed is largely necessary because millennia of warp exposure has left many a traitor marine`s geneseed unstable. Using loyalist geneseed is more efficient, and has the added benefit of striking a blow against the loyalists at the same time.


----------



## General-jwj

Thanks for the answers. It's true that considering the size of the EOT and the vast differences between all the legions and warbands they'd be widely varying methods of recruiting new members.

I'm also surprised at how little apothecaries are mentionned when it comes to the CSM, I'm not even sure they have official figures. What happend to all of them ? (except for the obvious ones such as Bile, etc ...)


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Do you think it is possible for the Imperium to create more Custodes?

If not, then the Custodes are essentially immortal seeing as how the same ones are still alive since pre-heresy no?


----------



## Serpion5

It was the Emperor who created the custodes and he was not exactly forthcoming with sharing secrets. 

Even SM apothecaries are not fully aware of the secrets of how astartes are made, all they understand is the process required. 

So, I doubt it. And as far as I am aware the custodes alive today are the same custodes the Emperor created before the Heresy.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Meaning the Custodes, better quality versions of Astartes, are immortal and their effectiveness does not dwindle over the years like Space Marines *referring to that 10k year old Salamander, long fang, etc.*


----------



## Serpion5

So it would seem. They were designed for a different purpose, and presumably built to last far longer. 

Whereas an astartes is almost expected to die in battle.


----------



## Emperors Mercy

Is it possible that a founded chapter used a combination on liege lords or are they direct decendents? I was just on 40kwiki and they said the Relictors were Ultramarine/Dark Angel Founded? Can someone shed some light on that?


----------



## Boc

My copy of my 'Cron codex is back at my house, and I'm at work and need an answer!

One of the Crownworlds has some tapestry/device that has all the stars in the galaxy in it, through which some nifty destructive things can be done...

1. Which crownworld was it?
2. Did the entry mention when the world woke up?
3. What was the device called?

Thanks!


----------



## Baron Spikey

Boc said:


> 1. Which crownworld was it?


Thanatos of the Oruscar Dynasty


Boc said:


> 2. Did the entry mention when the world woke up?


No


Boc said:


> 3. What was the device called?


The Celestial Orrery


----------



## General-jwj

The most random of random questions occured to me today ... I'll just shoot away.

1) If I recall, in the time of the Great Crusade the Moon (ours) was some kind of huge battlestation/space station filled with hangars and docks for ressuplying and maintaining defensive or soon-to-be-departing fleets of starships around Terra. Is it still there ? Because for some reason I keep remembering it was destroyed (though I'm probably mixing that up with Ultramar's moon from Battle for the Abyss).

2) What happened to the Emperor's battleship ? The one bigger than a mountain and completely covered in engraved gold ? (what a pimp ... )
Was it destroyed during the fierce space Battle around Terra? Was it scrapped at a later date ? Turned into a floating memorial like Macharius's ship ? Is it still active ?


----------



## Angel of Blood

1. Luna is most definetly still there. Either your thinking of BftA or the skyfort that was destroyed during the Siege of Terra.

2. Not a clue.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

How exactly do some chapters use gene-seed from two Primarchs?


----------



## Serpion5

Malus Darkblade said:


> How exactly do some chapters use gene-seed from two Primarchs?


Separately.


----------



## kavyanshrike

ThatOtherGuy said:


> How strong and tough is power armor? I keep hearing stories that it can shrug off a ton of crap, making it look indestructible, but then I hear that a f-ing shuriken pistol can punch a hole in it.


yocaet through most armour with good aim


----------



## forkmaster

Malus Darkblade said:


> How exactly do some chapters use gene-seed from two Primarchs?


As gene-sed grow the new organs which are needed, I think they does a switch-a-roo (as Bender would say) and mixes up with the organs, so they are half from one Primarchs Legion and the other half from another. Honsou for instance is a half Iron Warrior, half Imperial Fist.


----------



## Davidicus 40k

I don't want to make a whole new thread on this! Does anyone here, with their vast collections of lore literature, have a good account of a lance battery's destruction in action, or just an accurate description of its power? I know they're essentially "SUPER BIG LAZORS", but something which more adequately describes the awesome damage capability of these god-weapons would be appreciated.

On that note, is there any good novels that describe, in detail, naval combat? To me, it's almost more epic than planetary combat .


----------



## Rems

_Execution Hour_ and _Shadow Point_ are set in the Gothic War and heavily (almost solely) feature naval combat. They follow the Captain of the Dictator cruiser Macharius. From memory there are a few good scenes with lances (as well as strike craft, torpedoes, batteries fire and all the rest). So far they are perhaps the best (certainly lengthiest) accounts of naval war in any novel. 

There are lance scenes (and general naval combat) in _Soul Hunter_ and _Blood Reaver_ and the audio drama _Throne of Lies_. _Cadian Blood_ might feature some too, i know there are some ships in it briefly. While he doesn't do that many, ADB does write void war well. 

There might be a few more out there but none that spring readily to mind. 

You could also look at the actual battlefleet gothic rulebook, available as free pdf's from gw's website. Look under specialist games then the battlefleet gothic resources.


----------



## MontytheMighty

ThatOtherGuy said:


> How strong and tough is power armor? I keep hearing stories that it can shrug off a ton of crap, making it look indestructible, but then I hear that a f-ing shuriken pistol can punch a hole in it.


basically, as strong as the authour wants it to be


----------



## Emperorguard500

what is in your opinion the imperium closest ally... even though they are against all xenos, what race do you think there somewhat close or allied with??


----------



## Serpion5

Emperorguard500 said:


> what is in your opinion the imperium closest ally... even though they are against all xenos, what race do you think there somewhat close or allied with??


Hello and welcome to Random Questions! :victory: 

The Imperium has no closest ally beyond itself, and even its separate factions are often at odds with each other. 

However, both the eldar and tau have been known to find common cause with mankind mainly due to the threats of Chaos and Tyranids respectively.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

How quickly you forget about the Nicecrons Serpion.

They are on the fast track to becoming besties with the Imperium ^_^


----------



## Serpion5

Oh yes... Them.


----------



## Baron Spikey

The Adeptus Mechanicus is the Imperium's closest ally- as it points in _Titanicus_, Mars isn't merely a part of the Imperium it's the partner in a unified alliance. Terra & Mars. Imperium & Mechanicus.


----------



## Moriouce

Baron Spikey said:


> The Adeptus Mechanicus is the Imperium's closest ally- as it points in _Titanicus_, Mars isn't merely a part of the Imperium it's the partner in a unified alliance. Terra & Mars. Imperium & Mechanicus.


I thought the Imperium was founded as Terra & Mars signed a permanent alliance in order to reconquer the galaxy during the Great Crusade. Thus is the Imperium of Man the alliance of Terra & Mars.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Moriouce said:


> I thought the Imperium was founded as Terra & Mars signed a permanent alliance in order to reconquer the galaxy during the Great Crusade. Thus is the Imperium of Man the alliance of Terra & Mars.


Not according to the Imperials or Mechanicus in _Titanicus_, to them it's an alliance of Imperial Terra and Adeptus Mars.


----------



## Emperorguard500

so is there another human Empire besides the Imperium.. The Mechanics or mars mechanicum or whatever.. or is the adeptus mechanics and mars part of the Imperium....


----------



## Apfeljunge

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus_Mechanicus

You now, most of your questions can be answered by 1 minute of Internet search....


----------



## Emperorguard500

would you say mankind was more advanced (in science and technology) during the times of the "Dark Age of Technology" (Pre-Strife) compared to the technology and science during the Age of Imperium (current time)


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Emperorguard500 said:


> would you say mankind was more advanced (in science and technology) during the times of the "Dark Age of Technology" (Pre-Strife) compared to the technology and science during the Age of Imperium (current time)


Yes. Don't let "dark age" throw you off, as typically a dark age signifies a stagnation or recursion in technological and societal advancement. According to the Imperium, the Dark Age of Technology was, in scientific terms, a golden age; it was dark only because the level of technology was so horrific (rogue A.I., planet-destroying weapons) that it directly paved the way for the Age of Strife. Thus, it was "dark" in the evil sense.

Edit: Thanks for *not* starting a new thread about this question .


----------



## Emperorguard500

Davidicus 40k said:


> Yes. Don't let "dark age" throw you off, as typically a dark age signifies a stagnation or recursion in technological and societal advancement. According to the Imperium, the Dark Age of Technology was, in scientific terms, a golden age; it was dark only because the level of technology was so horrific (rogue A.I., planet-destroying weapons) that it directly paved the way for the Age of Strife. Thus, it was "dark" in the evil sense.
> 
> Edit: Thanks for *not* starting a new thread about this question .


so in essence during the DOTR (Dark Age of Technology) mankind was alot more advanced then they were during the time of imperium and so on...

does the imperium still allow scientific advancement or not?


----------



## Serpion5

Scientific advancement is stalled for the most part. Some organizations are enlightened enough to make a few innovations with existing technology, but that is pretty much the extent of it.


----------



## Emperorguard500

Serpion5 said:


> Scientific advancement is stalled for the most part. Some organizations are enlightened enough to make a few innovations with existing technology, but that is pretty much the extent of it.


wouldn't the adeptus mechanicus be making scientific advancements though?


----------



## Serpion5

Not to any great extent. They will modify existing technology to an extent, but they will not build entirely new technologies from scratch like the tau would for instance. 

Many technologies are forbidden, such as AI (resulting in the use of servitors instead) and all current machinery is based on one or another Standard Template Construct. 

With this mentality, the only way for the Imperium and the Mechanicus to gain "new" technologies is to rediscover an STC that was not in their possession already. They consider these the gifts of the Machine God and will pursue any possibility of finding one with a fanatical zeal. 

To put it simply, technology that isn`t sanctified is considered heresy and will result in severe punishment. Typically torture and death.


----------



## Emperorguard500

Serpion5 said:


> Not to any great extent. They will modify existing technology to an extent, but they will not build entirely new technologies from scratch like the tau would for instance.
> 
> Many technologies are forbidden, such as AI (resulting in the use of servitors instead) and all current machinery is based on one or another Standard Template Construct.
> 
> With this mentality, the only way for the Imperium and the Mechanicus to gain "new" technologies is to rediscover an STC that was not in their possession already. They consider these the gifts of the Machine God and will pursue any possibility of finding one with a fanatical zeal.
> 
> To put it simply, technology that isn`t sanctified is considered heresy and will result in severe punishment. Typically torture and death.


man the imperium is pretty anti-technology these days

was the "Dark" age of technology really bad for humanity


----------



## Serpion5

Dark Age of technology has also been referred to as the Golden Age. It was the time when mankind`s greatest technological achievements were made. 

No the Imperium is not anti technology. The Imperium is anti change.


----------



## Rems

To be fair they do have some understandable reasons for their current attitudes. The Iron Men did nearly destroy humanity and usher in the Age of Strife after all. Additionally theirs is a universe where machines can become corrupted by chaos and become malevolently sentient, a certain degree of caution is understandable. 

Change and new developments in technology do occur but they are mostly in the vein of adaptations to existing technologies or rediscoveries. The Imperium has shown itself to be capable of innovating though- their naval designs are example of this. 

Also the Golden Age and Dark Age of Technology are different times. The Golden Age under the dominion of the 'golden men' occurs entirely on earth. Once earth is unified and galactic colonisation begins the 'men of stone' appear and the Dark Age of technology begins. (this occurs in m20 and lasts for 5 thousand years or so). The men of stone then built the Iron Men, and the Mechanicus are founded. The Iron Men later rebel ushering in the Age of Strife as warp storms increase and alien threats grow. This continues for about 5 thousand years then the Emperor emerges to create the Age of the Imperium.


----------



## Emperorguard500

is it true that the people of terra have a fear of space marines because of the events of the horus heresy and the seige of terra...

what does the imperium administration think about this.. i mean they still use space marines as a fighting force, even though terra citizens are scared of them..


----------



## Doelago

Emperorguard500 said:


> is it true that the people of terra have a fear of space marines because of the events of the horus heresy and the seige of terra...
> 
> what does the imperium administration think about this.. i mean they still use space marines as a fighting force, even though terra citizens are scared of them..


I cant think of a normal citizen in the Imperium who would not piss in his pants if a Space Marine glared at him...


----------



## Rems

No, that's not quite true. 

Astartes are scary yes, but that's because they're giant killers in baroque armour with large weapons. However they are also the Emperor's Angels of Death, nigh mythical beings who dispense his wrath. 

So a 'average' (not that there is such a thing, the Imperium is too large for generalisations) citizen, upon seeing a Astartes would be battling feelings of awe, fear and reverence. 

The people of Terra would not know much of the Heresy. They would likely know of it in a apocryphal manner, that once a great evil was defeated by the Emperor. They wouldn't specifically know that Horus was a primarch and that other astartes turned traitor. Knowledge of Chaos is heavily restricted in the Imperium.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Was Lorgar's fight with the Unbound before or after his battle with Corax at Istaavan?


----------



## Baron Spikey

Malus Darkblade said:


> Was Lorgar's fight with the Unbound before or after his battle with Corax at Istaavan?


Decades before.


----------



## Angel of Blood

Which makes me more inclined to think the fight was always set up for Lorgar to win.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Weird how Lorgar owned the Unbound then proceeded to get owned by Corax in a way that felt as though it was Lorgar's first real fight against something as strong as him and rebuked by Curze. Would have made more sense imo if he had fought the Unbound after Corax.

And it does feel like it was set-up, it felt like the Unbound was holding back and letting Lorgar win in a convincing fashion was the final push to convince him into following Chaos and to believe in himself. That bit from Ingethel about nothing being immune to death seemed to foreshadow the Unbound's arrival.


----------



## Emperorguard500

are imperial citizens ignorant of current events and past history

are the IG, space marines, inquisistion and administration the only ones that know what the hell is going on.. on a day to day basis


----------



## Baron Spikey

Emperorguard500 said:


> are imperial citizens ignorant of current events and past history
> 
> are the IG, space marines, inquisistion and administration the only ones that know what the hell is going on.. on a day to day basis


Just shut up and die. Merry Christmas


----------



## Serpion5

I was about to answer the question, then I realized that Baron had the better idea. 

Just do some fucking reading for fuck`s sake.


----------



## Emperorguard500

it seems like if GW was to ever bring back the primarchs in the story (maybe 6th edition, highly doubt it) the only ones that are capable of bringing back is the Lion and Guilliman... all the other ones have dissapeared or have been slain

is this correct


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Emperorguard500 said:


> it seems like if GW was to ever bring back the primarchs in the story (maybe 6th edition, highly doubt it) the only ones that are capable of bringing back is the Lion and Guilliman... all the other ones have dissapeared or have been slain
> 
> is this correct


For the record they will never be brought back. But, hypothetically if they were, the ones *potentially* capable of returning would be the Lion, the Khan, Russ, Vulkan and Corax. 

Sanguinius, Dorn, Ferrus Manus and Guilliman are dead.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I know there are probably billions of threads about the Alpha Legion and questioning their loyalties (probably started by the Hydra Cult itself to stir up confusion lol) but are there any stories of an AL force attacking another Chaos Force?


----------



## Emperorguard500

who is Cacadomius?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Emperorguard500 said:


> who is Cacadomius?


An alien cyborg who also happened to possess a very powerful psychic presence.

(Nice of you to ask this question in this thread after you had already started an individual thread on it).


----------



## ckcrawford

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> For the record they will never be brought back. But, hypothetically if they were, the ones *potentially* capable of returning would be the Lion, the Khan, Russ, Vulkan and Corax.
> 
> Sanguinius, Dorn, Ferrus Manus and Guilliman are dead.


I think Graham McNeill is more than capable of bringing Guilliman back from the dead with some bullshit story. 

All we have to hope is Lux doesn't become a BL author, because he is also capable of bringing Ferrus Manus from the death with his papermachett head theory.

I could see Dorn banishing himself. 

But in all fairness, and with all Black Library has done with some of its "creativity" they could bring any of the primarchs back into the picture, except for Sanguinus and Ferrus Manus. Sorry Lux.

But "realistically" they are all very much dead. Even the ones, that are most likely. Khan being able to survive in the webway with all the eldar and dangerous things in there for 10,000 years... he is just as likely to be alive as Guilliman getting stabbed in throat. Even Leman Russ and Corax, going straight into the Eye of Terror... are we seriously expected to believe they were able to survive that long without replenishing their strength, and not being challenged by all the warbands and champions lurking around there? And Vulkan... I wouldn't be surprised if he just put himself into exile. He from all the Primarchs suffered the worst fate of all the legions in the Heresy. Pretty much literally watching his entire legion literally destroyed. I think he is a broken man and will be... forever.


----------



## Angel of Blood

ckcrawford said:


> But "realistically" they are all very much dead. Even the ones, that are most likely. Khan being able to survive in the webway with all the eldar and dangerous things in there for 10,000 years... he is just as likely to be alive as Guilliman getting stabbed in throat. Even Leman Russ and Corax, going straight into the Eye of Terror... are we seriously expected to believe they were able to survive that long without replenishing their strength, and not being challenged by all the warbands and champions lurking around there? And Vulkan... I wouldn't be surprised if he just put himself into exile. He from all the Primarchs suffered the worst fate of all the legions in the Heresy. Pretty much literally watching his entire legion literally destroyed. I think he is a broken man and will be... forever.


Regarding Russ and Corax(possibly Vulkan for all we know), it would be entirely possible and even plausible to have them emerge from the Eye in the current timeline having only been in there for a day, hell even an hour. The 13th Company managed to survive all that time in there, granted it's a whole company, but even so. 

As for the Khan, i've always had this thought of him being captured by the Dark Eldar and imprisoned within Commorragh. The Dark Eldar are more than capable of keeping a subject alive for extreme amounts of time to torture, maybe even indefinitely, imagine the fun they would have with a being like a Primarch. No backing of course, just my own little theory.


----------



## moswantd407

On the subject of Dark Eldar and their....consumption, do they become more blase as time passes? For example do they need more souls as they get older? Vect who has been alive for like what.. a few thousand years would need a lot of souls at that point in time.


----------



## General-jwj

moswantd407 said:


> On the subject of Dark Eldar and their....consumption, do they become more blase as time passes? For example do they need more souls as they get older? Vect who has been alive for like what.. a few thousand years would need a lot of souls at that point in time.


Yes, to use the analogy employed by the White Dwarf (whatever issue it was when the new Dark Eldar codex came out) they're like rusty buckets, the more time passes, the more holes they get, the more "water" they lose (water being the equivalent for "soul") ... and they need other people's suffering as a way of replenishing the bucket.


----------



## cegorach

Ok here is a sort of strange and probably just annoying question. But here goes nothing. 

You know how people can make null zones, that shut you off from the warp completely. Well firstly what happens to the soul of a human if he/she dies inside? Does their soul just linger there or what happens? 
Secondly what happens to a daemon if you shut it off from the warp? Being made of warpstuff itself does it just dissapate? Or when you do kill it how does it reform inside the warp? I am really just wondering if there is a permanant way to kill daemons, I know that even if it was possible, trapping a bloodthirster in a null zone would be easier said than done, but hopefully its food for thought, otherwise I apologize for wasting your time.


----------



## Serpion5

Same as when a pariah or blank dies. Nothing really. 

The barriers exist in realspace preventing the warp from overlapping. It weakens the hold on the materium, it does not actually damage the warp itself. 

So a blank's soul still exists, it simply isn't visible because their physiology masks it. Once they die, the physical properties of their brain structure no longer mask it and it becomes visible. 

Just as a daemon banished within a null zone isn't destroyed, they simply cannot maintain a grasp on the materium if all connection between the two realms has been severed.


----------



## cegorach

Serpion5 said:


> Same as when a pariah or blank dies. Nothing really.
> 
> The barriers exist in realspace preventing the warp from overlapping. It weakens the hold on the materium, it does not actually damage the warp itself.
> 
> So a blank's soul still exists, it simply isn't visible because their physiology masks it. Once they die, the physical properties of their brain structure no longer mask it and it becomes visible.
> 
> Just as a daemon banished within a null zone isn't destroyed, they simply cannot maintain a grasp on the materium if all connection between the two realms has been severed.


Thanks Serpion5, but how does something get back into the warp if there is no connection to it? Is it because the barrier is only in the materium and when you die you leave the materium anyways?


----------



## Serpion5

Its essence is banished from the materium, but unless it is destroyed in the warp it will always exist. 

So essentially what you said is correct.


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Something I should probably know, but still have to ask because it's been nagging at me. Loyalist Legions were split into Chapters, but are Traitor Legions still classified as Legions? Excluding the Black Legion, of course. Basically, are there "chapters" of Chaos Space Marines, or do they retain a structure similar to the one during the Heresy?


----------



## Icarsun

Depends on the Legion.

Iron Warriors
Black Legion
Night Lords
Thousand Sons (albiet in two legions)
Alpha Legion (though they usually operate in sizes no larger than warbands)
Word Bearers
Are all Legions still

Emperors Children
World Eaters
Are warbands

Death Guard I don't know.

If I'm wrong, please correct me but I believe this list is accurate. And keep in mind Legions don't operate as a whole, they normally split off into smaller groups to accomplish multiple goals at once.


----------



## Serpion5

Nearly every legion (if not then all) has split into warbands dude. When your only motivations are survival and revenge, semblances of unity and honour do not receive priority.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Loyalists split into chapters. Traitors into warbands. The former doing so out of necessity and possessing a strict hierarchy, the latter doing so because of their very chaotic nature and not having much of a hierarchy if at all.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

_Serpion_ is right. All the the Legions of old who followed Horus into Heresy have split into numerous warbands. Even the Black Legion is _"...a coalition of warbands loosely based upon the old Sons of Horus Legion."_ 

Whilst they are all generally still referred to as _"Legions"_ they do not resemble the old organisational structure that made up the Legions during the Crusade/Heresy-era. The warbands essentially function on the basis of their leader(s), whose will and ambition holds the host together - which can range in size from a handful of individuals to the size of the hosts that Abaddon and the Tyrant can call upon.


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Thanks. I remembered something about warbands, but I thought only the Black Legion had split into them (I remember that quote specifically, CotE ), so that's why I was confused about the other "legions."


----------



## locustgate

Ok I always heard that 40k and warhammer was once in the same universe I was reading the warhammer background, my question is was Sigmar originally the Emperor


----------



## Serpion5

Warhammer and 40k have nothing to do with each other. 

Anything you've read saying this is either very old (since retconned) lore or fan-made crap.


----------



## General-jwj

Serpion5 said:


> Warhammer and 40k have nothing to do with each other.
> 
> Anything you've read saying this is either very old (since retconned) lore or fan-made crap.


Hellz to the yeah ! i have this really old lorebook called "Let the Galaxy Burn" and in it a squad of Space Marines defend a human Sigmar-worshipping settlement in the Old World from a herd of beastmen.

I'll never forget when that Sergeant burst that Bray leader to pieces with a power fist, retcon or not :grin:


----------



## Serpion5

General-jwj said:


> Hellz to the yeah ! i have this really old lorebook called "Let the Galaxy Burn" and in it a squad of Space Marines defend a human Sigmar-worshipping settlement in the Old World from a herd of beastmen.
> 
> I'll never forget when that Sergeant burst that Bray leader to pieces with a power fist, retcon or not :grin:


IT NEVER HAPPENED! :threaten:


----------



## General-jwj

Serpion5 said:


> IT NEVER HAPPENED! :threaten:


What about the Chaos Orks and that Daemon army that got trapped in a virtual reality simulator manned by a failed Space marine trainee ? Did that happen ?

Because when he entered the virtual reality machine with Weapons and Terminator Armor he programmed himself you best believe he kiked more chaos ass than Caldor Draigo himself.


----------



## Serpion5

General-jwj said:


> What about the Chaos Orks and that Daemon army that got trapped in a virtual reality simulator manned by a failed Space marine trainee ? Did that happen ?
> 
> Because when he entered the virtual reality machine with Weapons and Terminator Armor he programmed himself you best believe he kiked more chaos ass than Caldor Draigo himself.


Watch yourself Scaly. :nono:

Don't get stuck in the past now.


----------



## Nightside

Could the Dawnblade be the sword known as "Anaris"??


----------



## cegorach

Nightside said:


> Could the Dawnblade be the sword known as "Anaris"??


A tau commander being in possession of a legendary sword of the Eldar? Well I sure as hell hope not, I mean I have no evidence either way but it would sure piss me off if it was the case. 

Besides, do we think the Eldar would let a sword that had been used in the war against haven get lost for so long and then end up in the hands of another upstart youngling race? I mean yeah its possible, it would just be annoying. 

Still it is certainly an interesting theory and stranger, more aggravating things have happened


----------



## Serpion5

Nightside said:


> Could the Dawnblade be the sword known as "Anaris"??





cegorach said:


> A tau commander being in possession of a legendary sword of the Eldar? Well I sure as hell hope not, I mean I have no evidence either way but it would sure piss me off if it was the case.
> 
> Besides, do we think the Eldar would let a sword that had been used in the war against haven get lost for so long and then end up in the hands of another upstart youngling race? I mean yeah its possible, it would just be annoying.
> 
> Still it is certainly an interesting theory and stranger, more aggravating things have happened


I believe Anaris is the last sword Khaine wielded before being shattered by Slaanesh. So chances are it too was shattered and its pieces now accompany the Avatars of Khaine.


----------



## Nightside

Serpion5 said:


> I believe Anaris is the last sword Khaine wielded before being shattered by Slaanesh. So chances are it too was shattered and its pieces now accompany the Avatars of Khaine.


From what i understand Anaris and the Wailing Doom are 2 different objects.

+ the eldar have lost most of their empire,it is quite possible that that blade was lost,as was probably many other artifacts.


----------



## Serpion5

I recall in DoW: Tempest the protagonist librarian possessed a shard of an eldar weapon. 

I do not recall if it was in fact Anaris, but I can double check. Give me a few minutes.


EDIT: Best as I can tell, it wasn't. So Anaris may or may not be accounted for.


----------



## locustgate

Serpion5 said:


> Warhammer and 40k have nothing to do with each other.
> 
> Anything you've read saying this is either very old (since retconned) lore or fan-made crap.


I asked was he originally Sigmar not IS


----------



## Baron Spikey

locustgate said:


> I asked was he originally Sigmar not IS


No he was not.


----------



## gen.ahab

What is the average size of an imperial guard infantry regiment and how many imperial soldiers would one expect to see used in an invasion of a chaos held imperial world such as a shrine world?


----------



## Davidicus 40k

gen.ahab said:


> What is the average size of an imperial guard infantry regiment and how many imperial soldiers would one expect to see used in an invasion of a chaos held imperial world such as a shrine world?


Imperial Guard regiments vary wildly, based on their homeworld and classification (scout, heavy infantry, armored, etc). I think on average, scout regiments have 2-4k, while heavy infantry regiments could have 10k+. Not really sure, though. If the Guard wants to invade a world, they'll usually use as many men as they can spare. To have a good shot at success, at least a couple million would be desirable.


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Does warpstone exist in 40K?

It's an odd question, I know, but someone said something about it today and I really couldn't think whether or not it does/did exist in the 40k setting?


----------



## deathbringer

i have never heard mention of it, but to me at least the warp and the winds of magic are though similar entities as in being a source of power that can be tapped into by an individual, they exist on different planes the warp being a fully alternate realm from which power can be drawn, where as the winds of magic exist in the same realm with no agenda ready for the atuned to tap into.

Where as warpstone is solidified magic i cant see how the warp could be, however i'm ready to be proven wrong.


----------



## cegorach

You can get solidified warp stuff in the form of wraithbone. But it is nothing like warpstone in any other way, and I think thats the closest you get. (well in my limited knowledge and opinion anyways)


----------



## Serpion5

The closest I've seen to warpstone is a daemonically possessed rock in the Eisenhorn series. 

That's right. _A daemonically possessed rock._


----------



## mob16151

Just read Battle of the Fang, and Gildars Rift, and I have a question from each book.

Battle of the fang



One of the 1000 sons sorcerors mentions that the Materium posseses a spirit so to speak that actively resist the Warp. Has this been mentioned anywhere else? 


Gildars Rift



When the Silver Skulls master of the fleet is killed by Huron Blackheart, he says we've seen your doom. Now was he just talking smack, or do you think GW might actually kill off the former Tyrant of Badab?


----------



## gen.ahab

How is the form which a daemon prince takes determined? Is it random, determined by the gods or determined by the personality of the daemon?


----------



## Malus Darkblade

I believe daemons in their natural form are just balls of energy but take on the shape perceived by humans/mortals. I think I read that in Aurerlian or somewhere else. 

The only flaw in this is how do daemons appear identical to everyone? Assuming they do.


----------



## Serpion5

mob16151 said:


> Just read Battle of the Fang, and Gildars Rift, and I have a question from each book.
> 
> Battle of the fang
> 
> 
> 
> One of the 1000 sons sorcerors mentions that the Materium posseses a spirit so to speak that actively resist the Warp. Has this been mentioned anywhere else?
> 
> 
> Gildars Rift
> 
> 
> 
> When the Silver Skulls master of the fleet is killed by Huron Blackheart, he says we've seen your doom. Now was he just talking smack, or do you think GW might actually kill off the former Tyrant of Badab?


To the first, there are souls capable of actively resisting the warp among both humanity and eldar. Evidence in the Eldar Path series and Eisenhorn.

To the second, it wouldn't be the first time gw has killed off one of their codex characters.



gen.ahab said:


> How is the form which a daemon prince takes determined? Is it random, determined by the gods or determined by the personality of the daemon?


Lore says they are reshaped according to the whims of their patron, but many daemon princes seem to retain some semblance of their previous form as well. So the answer is mixed by the looks of it.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> In regards to the Daemons:
> 
> "Daemons have no physical presence within the Warp... Instead of having a true physical shape, Daemons project a form conjured from the Warp's raw energy. The bizarre and inhuman appearances projected by Daemons indicate their presence, status and allegiance to a Chaos God. These insubstantial forms echo (or are echoed by) the shapes adopted by Daemons in real space, and the children of a Chaos Power will create and project similar forms. As with the Chaos Gods and their realms, these forms come to reflect the emotions a Daemon is based upon and have been shaped by centuries of feeding on belief." - C:CD, Page 7.
> 
> Aside from that though other sources also claim that Daemons take on the form of their opponents emotional perceptions. For example, Bloodletters appear differently in real space to Humans than to Eldar for example, based on the race's perception on anger/hate/rage.


Ten characters.


----------



## gen.ahab

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Ten characters.


Does that apply to the individuals of that race as well? Basically, to each individual the form of any specific daemon would be slightly different, right?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

gen.ahab said:


> Does that apply to the individuals of that race as well? Basically, to each individual the form of any specific daemon would be slightly different, right?


Potentially.


----------



## Serpion5

gen.ahab said:


> Does that apply to the individuals of that race as well? Basically, to each individual the form of any specific daemon would be slightly different, right?





Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Potentially.


I don't believe we have any examples of non human/astartes daemon princes.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Serpion5 said:


> I don't believe we have any examples of non human/astartes daemon princes.


Can't think of one off the top of my head, but inevitably there would be some. Not that it really matters, they're all now daemons regardless of whatever mortal origins they once had.

But what was your point? :friends:


----------



## Serpion5

The original question was about the appearance of daemon princes, you and Malus answered about generic daemons. 

That was my point.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Serpion5 said:


> The original question was about the appearance of daemon princes, you and Malus answered about generic daemons.
> 
> That was my point.


Daemon Princes are daemons, the same applies. Well, at least to those Daemon Princes who completely discard their material form and merge into the tides of the warp.


----------



## Serpion5

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Daemon Princes are daemons, the same applies. Well, at least to those Daemon Princes who completely discard their material form and merge into the tides of the warp.


Every piece of artwork I've seen, and what few descriptions i can vaguely remember, detail the daemon princes as having features reminiscent of the astartes many of them once were. 

Taking that into account, I felt it pertinent to highlight the potential difference in their nature even if it is due to their origin if nothing else. Some lore indicates it is entirely the gods will that reshapes their servants, but other sources and images suggest that their new form at least borrows from what they previously were.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Serpion5 said:


> Every piece of artwork I've seen, and what few descriptions i can vaguely remember, detail the daemon princes as having features reminiscent of the astartes many of them once were.
> 
> Taking that into account, I felt it pertinent to highlight the potential difference in their nature even if it is due to their origin if nothing else. Some lore indicates it is entirely the gods will that reshapes their servants, but other sources and images suggest that their new form at least borrows from what they previously were.


The lore suggests there are two classifications of Daemon Princes, one which after ascension remains with its mortal followers (represented in _Codex: Chaos Space Marines_ - _"...the Daemon Princes who lead warbands of Chaos Space Marines were once Space Marines themselves... *still clad in their twisted armour*, still driven on by their hatred of the Imperium..."_) and one which after ascension abandons its material form and merges into the tides of the warp (represented in _Codex: Chaos Daemons_ - _"*some* Daemon Princes discard their material form altogether and join the ranks of their patron's daemons, coming back to haunt the galaxy as part of a daemonic invasion..."_). The former classification presumably being forced to join the latter if (and when) they are banished.

In terms of their appearance when they manifest in the material realm, the same applies to them as does to other daemons - apart from the Daemon Princes who opted to remain with their warbands whilst retaining some twisted form of their previous selves (at least until they are banished to the warp anyway).


----------



## Serpion5

Granted. I bow to your greater knowledge of Chaos my liege. :thank_you: 

And curse my own foolishness for overlooking the difference which, in hindsight, should have been more apparent. :laugh:


----------



## vulcan539

Davidicus 40k said:


> Imperial Guard regiments vary wildly, based on their homeworld and classification (scout, heavy infantry, armored, etc). I think on average, scout regiments have 2-4k, while heavy infantry regiments could have 10k+. Not really sure, though. If the Guard wants to invade a world, they'll usually use as many men as they can spare. To have a good shot at success, at least a couple million would be desirable.


Every single regiment is different.
It verys to much to put a number to.

In the real world regiments can be as small as about 300 troops including there officers to over 1000 troops.


----------



## forkmaster

What bothers me, which is more of a statement but at the same time a semi-question about daemons. As I understood it there are only 3 types of daemons (in total). Daemon-princes, Greater Daemons and Lower Daemons, and they either serve one God in particular (Lower and Higher) or they could be neutral (DP).

But in many of the books the daemons in particular show no allegiance to be of just ONE God serving type. So Im wondering, do you think there are grey-zone with daemons which is neither lower or higher, but in between?


----------



## Serpion5

Daemons are formed from emotions. Aside from the four, many other powers will form and die, some lasting millennia, others mere seconds. Daemons are not restricted to being created or rebirthed by one of the four gods. 

Codex: Chaos Daemons explains this. Additionally, Daemons such as furies are supposedly formed from the souls of Chaos worshipers who divides their attention between gods. Their indecisiveness was rewarded by no god offering them sanction upon their death.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

forkmaster said:


> What bothers me, which is more of a statement but at the same time a semi-question about daemons. As I understood it there are only 3 types of daemons (in total). Daemon-princes, Greater Daemons and Lower Daemons, and they either serve one God in particular (Lower and Higher) or they could be neutral (DP).
> 
> But in many of the books the daemons in particular show no allegiance to be of just ONE God serving type. So Im wondering, do you think there are grey-zone with daemons which is neither lower or higher, but in between?


The classification between greater, lesser, princes and beasts (to name the main ones) are imposed by humans (in and out of universe) in an attempt to classify the daemonic (in terms of game-mechanics and otherwise). But there are wildly varying levels of daemon and all are not easily assigned to a particular classification (and should not be in terms of deep analysis).

Not quite sure what you mean by _"lower or higher"_ though.


----------



## cegorach

Really sorry to bother you with an asinine question, but do space wolves still use many wolves of fenris in battle in 40k?
I know they used them at the time of Russ and I know there are a few special characters associated with them e.g. Canis Wolfborn. But are they still used often?

Apologies again. But I cannot find a difinitive answer anywhere else.


----------



## NiceGuyEddy

cegorach said:


> Really sorry to bother you with an asinine question, but do space wolves still use many wolves of fenris in battle in 40k?
> I know they used them at the time of Russ and I know there are a few special characters associated with them e.g. Canis Wolfborn. But are they still used often?
> 
> Apologies again. But I cannot find a difinitive answer anywhere else.


I don't have the 5th edition but I'd say they're still used. As silly as the MacNeill/Abnett "There are no wolves on Fenris" notion was I don't think it should interfere with wolves being used.


----------



## Baron Spikey

NiceGuyEddy said:


> I don't have the 5th edition but I'd say they're still used. As silly as the MacNeill/Abnett "There are no wolves on Fenris" notion was I don't think it should interfere with wolves being used.


Well it wouldn't interfere anyway, the insinuation being that the 'Wolves' on Fenris are not descended from Canids- as in the Wolves aren't wolves.


----------



## Rems

Which is perfectly logical as common wolves would in no way be able to survive on the deathworld that is Fenris. Fenrisian wolves are either some kind of indigenous species that only bears a cosmetic similarity to our wolves (an example of convergent evolution) or Terran wolves heavily modified and enhanced by the original settlers.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

In 1k sons Magnus comments about their warp essence.


----------



## mob16151

Serpion5 said:


> To the first, there are souls capable of actively resisting the warp among both humanity and eldar. Evidence in the Eldar Path series and Eisenhorn.


It's saying the Material Universe, it's self has some sort of Universal Spirit/Sentience, that resists warp incursions.


----------



## Serpion5

mob16151 said:


> It's saying the Material Universe, it's self has some sort of Universal Spirit/Sentience, that resists warp incursions.


This I have not seen anywhere else. 

Maybe it was just a reference to the materium's naturally debilitating effect on daemons and such? A warp presence without a true physical form is difficult to maintain.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

The warp is often described as being timeless. Ships can go through the warp and emerge at their destinations days later or even months. If this is true, are there any instances where a ship has traveled through the warp and emerged at an earlier point in time? Is that even possible?
(I am going to say I doubt that it is possible but at the same time I dont see any proof suggesting that it can't)


----------



## Baron Spikey

Androxine Vortex said:


> The warp is often described as being timeless. Ships can go through the warp and emerge at their destinations days later or even months. If this is true, are there any instances where a ship has traveled through the warp and emerged at an earlier point in time? Is that even possible?
> (I am going to say I doubt that it is possible but at the same time I dont see any proof suggesting that it can't)


Yes it is possible, and there have been instances alluded to.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

Baron Spikey said:


> Yes it is possible, and there have been instances alluded to.


Do you have any examples? I would very much like to read about them.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Androxine Vortex said:


> Do you have any examples? I would very much like to read about them.


Off the top of my head I believe it's mentioned in the 5th Edition Rulebook regarding Warp Travel, in the fluff section obviously.

I know the concept has been mentioned in a few novels as well, though the act of arriving before leaving hasn't happened to any protagonists that I know of...my usually pack-rat like memory is failing me at the moment. When I've had a decent nights sleep I'll try and drag out some quotes/page numbers for you.


----------



## Serpion5

There was an instance of an ork warboss setting out on a waaagh and during warp transit he actually arrived back at his departure point before he had departed. 

He then hunted down his other self, reasoning he could have a spare of his favourite gun. The resultant confusion effectively ended the waaagh before it had even begun. 

I believe this account is in the brb, but I'm citing from memory so it may be the ork codex instead. The excerpt was called "The Lost Waaaghhh!"


----------



## AgentOrange24

Ravenor travels back in time once.

Don't remember what caused him to do so though. Might not have been warp travel, may have got daemon pwnt.


----------



## Baron Spikey

AgentOrange24 said:


> Ravenor travels back in time once.
> 
> Don't remember what caused him to do so though. Might not have been warp travel, may have got daemon pwnt.


When he goes through that weird door that can transport you anywhere.


----------



## mob16151

Rems said:


> Which is perfectly logical as common wolves would in no way be able to survive on the deathworld that is Fenris. Fenrisian wolves are either some kind of indigenous species that only bears a cosmetic similarity to our wolves (an example of convergent evolution) or Terran wolves heavily modified and enhanced by the original settlers.


My theory on the Fenrisian wolves has been thus

1. Settlers arrive on Fenris

2. Settlers realize Fenris sucks.

3. Settlers experimet with genetic modification, to better survive on planet.

4.Settlers experiments lead to a wulfen type creature

5. Wulfen type creatures are released/escape into wild.

6.Wulfen like creatures do it.........

7.Fenrisian wolves are the descendants of these wulfen types

8.???????

9.Profit.


----------



## forkmaster

In _Deliverance Lost_ on p. 211 we meet the magos for the first time who says he's not a part of the Mechanicum, but the order of the Dragon. Could this be the cult that would grow inside the Dark Mechanicum, for those who would be shown the revelation what the Machine-God really is?


----------



## Serpion5

forkmaster said:


> In _Deliverance Lost_ on p. 211 we meet the magos for the first time who says he's not a part of the Mechanicum, but the order of the Dragon. Could this be the cult that would grow inside the Dark Mechanicum, for those who would be shown the revelation what the Machine-God really is?


As I understand, they were worshipping the Dragon as the Machine God before the arrival of the Emperor. I am pretty sure there is still a similar faction within the Mechanicus in the current setting, but whether it is the same Order of The Dragon I am not sure. 

What significance the Dark Mechanicum has in this I do not know either. It is likely that at least some of them are aware of the Dragon on Mars, but whether they still revere it or whether they have embraced Chaos remains unclear. Both possibilities are plausible and it is not unreasonable to think there are as many factions within the Dark Mechanicum as there are in the Adeptus Mechanicus as well.


----------



## El_Lobo

Hello Heretics,

I have read several times in fluff threads that the chaos gods didn't truly "exist" until Earth's middle ages, but have never seen that mentioned in background material. Can anyone give me the source of this info?


----------



## Serpion5

Old fluff. 

According to current sources, the Chaos Gods have always existed. They just didn't become prevalent until later times, and Slaanesh didn't begin to affect the Materium until her "birth" triggered by the Eldar.


----------



## g00dd0ct0r

how much more money will i spend on heresy books before we get to the bttle of terr ?


----------



## kwak76

Fluff wise. What the hell are the chaos Gods anyway? I mean I understand they derive their power from emotion and that their purpose is to cause havoc but are they just formation of imagination? Kind of like how the Elder gave to the rise of Slannessh because of their pleasure seeking lifestyle? 

And if it is wouldn't that mean that people have more power to combat chaos? I mean it's like the more your afraid of it or believe in it the more power it derives but if you think less of it or think that it's nothing wouldn't that be able to battle it in a way.


----------



## Baron Spikey

kwak76 said:


> Fluff wise. What the hell are the chaos Gods anyway? I mean I understand they derive their power from emotion and that their purpose is to cause havoc but are they just formation of imagination? Kind of like how the Elder gave to the rise of Slannessh because of their pleasure seeking lifestyle?
> 
> And if it is wouldn't that mean that people have more power to combat chaos? I mean it's like the more your afraid of it or believe in it the more power it derives but if you think less of it or think that it's nothing wouldn't that be able to battle it in a way.


Yes but how do you go through life never experiencing Rage and Hate, Hope and Betrayal, Despair and Fear?

When the 'Gods' encompass nearly all of human emotion there's no way to reliably prevent yourself from empowering them.


----------



## D-A-C

Just wondering two random questions:

1. How many races do you think humanity exterminated permanantly during the Great Crusade (just a guestimate if there is no 'offical sources').

2. How big was the Palace on Terra when the Heresy battle took place? Was it the entire size of the planet, or do we official know it was the size of Europe for example? The reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering both, how the Traitors managed to navigate a huge palace in a co-ordinated manner, and also, where the human populace that the Emperor's Children 'had fun with' was housed.

Thanks.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

D-A-C said:


> Just wondering two random questions:
> 
> 1. How many races do you think humanity exterminated permanantly during the Great Crusade (just a guestimate if there is no 'offical sources').


_Hundreds_ is perhaps a logical estimate. 



D-A-C said:


> 2. How big was the Palace on Terra when the Heresy battle took place? Was it the entire size of the planet, or do we official know it was the size of Europe for example? The reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering both, how the Traitors managed to navigate a huge palace in a co-ordinated manner, and also, where the human populace that the Emperor's Children 'had fun with' was housed.


There are conflicting sources. Some claim that the Palace was based across the entire northern hemisphere, whilst others suggest it was continent sized or smaller. I can't remember exactly which descriptions belong to which source, but I believe you'll find one is the _Collected Visions_ - one of the novels in the Heresy series will probably have mentioned it as well.


----------



## COMPNOR

Androxine Vortex said:


> The warp is often described as being timeless. Ships can go through the warp and emerge at their destinations days later or even months. If this is true, are there any instances where a ship has traveled through the warp and emerged at an earlier point in time? Is that even possible?
> (I am going to say I doubt that it is possible but at the same time I dont see any proof suggesting that it can't)


Well, I've just finished reading all 90 pages of this thread. For those questions regarding Telepathic messages/Warp travel, it can days, months. And do some weird shit.



In Hammer of the Emperor, the story about the Tallarn, they receive a distress call, go out to investigate, find nothing on the planet, get attacked by Tyranids, end up sending the distress call of their own, only to realize their distress call was what they received and responded to.


----------



## Freakytah

So here's a question I've been thinking about while reading _Blood Reaver_... 

How much does the average Imperial citizen know about the events of the Heresy? There's been a few references to the "myth" of chaos marines, and when one individual is asked about the 8th Legion he says there's no such thing, and he "knows his myths pretty well." 

Are most people ignorant to the majority of the Heresy?


----------



## Serpion5

Freakytah said:


> So here's a question I've been thinking about while reading _Blood Reaver_...
> 
> How much does the average Imperial citizen know about the events of the Heresy? There's been a few references to the "myth" of chaos marines, and when one individual is asked about the 8th Legion he says there's no such thing, and he "knows his myths pretty well."
> 
> Are most people ignorant to the majority of the Heresy?


Average Imperial citizens are kept ignorant of the true events of the Heresy, the existence of Chaos, even the true threat represented by xenos. 

The idea is to secure loyalty, people are more likely to jump ship if they know it's sinking.


----------



## Freakytah

Serpion5 said:


> Average Imperial citizens are kept ignorant of the true events of the Heresy, the existence of Chaos, even the true threat represented by xenos.
> 
> The idea is to secure loyalty, people are more likely to jump ship if they know it's sinking.


I always sort of assumed that everyone was heavily brainwashed through propaganda, and that they were getting fed lies about victories against Chaos et al. Since so many planets exist basically just to help the war effort I'd think people would have suspicions as to how f'd they really are.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Freakytah said:


> I always sort of assumed that everyone was heavily brainwashed through propaganda, and that they were getting fed lies about victories against Chaos et al. Since so many planets exist basically just to help the war effort I'd think people would have suspicions as to how f'd they really are.


Thing is tho' the stranglehold of the Enforcers and Inquisitors etc is so tight that to even hint at those suspicions invites sanction and the Inquisition they are just as likely to annihilate the entire planet just on the off chance.

Tends to quell unrest.


----------



## Freakytah

Magpie_Oz said:


> Thing is tho' the stranglehold of the Enforcers and Inquisitors etc is so tight that to even hint at those suspicions invites sanction and the Inquisition they are just as likely to annihilate the entire planet just on the off chance.
> 
> Tends to quell unrest.


Haha yeah that'll probably do the trick!


----------



## COMPNOR

Looking at the organizational beakdown for a Codex Chapter, where do Predator Tanks fall in? Are they attached to individual companies, held in sort of a reserve state and assigned as needed?

Thanks


----------



## Serpion5

Tanks are assigned as needed and typically crewed by members of the Devastator Reserve company, which is generally the ninth I believe. :scratchhead:


----------



## Rems

Heavier battle tanks such as Predators, Whirlwinds, Land Raiders, Vindicators and other variants belong to the Armoury which is overseen by the Master of the Forge and whose vehicles are deployed as needed on his and the Chapter Master's recommendation. 

They are crewed by the reserve tactical and devastator companies, so the sixth and ninth, preserving the members of the battle companies full strength for their missions. The seventh crews land speeders and bikes. 

Battle Companies only contain Dreadnoughts, Rhinos, Razorbacks, Land Speeders and Bikes as part of their usual complement, sometimes a Land Raider or two.


----------



## COMPNOR

Thank you very much


----------



## COMPNOR

Ok, if a Space Marine Chapter was devastated, say 50% casualties, with geneseed unrecoverable, but they were deemed worthy of being rebuilt... how would they go about it?

Would they remove the second progenoid from the living Space Marines, and slowly rebuild? 

Would they use slaves like how the original 1,000 were created, slowly replicating them?

Would the High Lords of Terra gift them additional geneseed to rebuild their numbers, creating a mix of geneseed?

Combination of all three, depending on the Chapter, era, what side of bed people woke up on?

Thanks


----------



## Serpion5

Typically they'd use whatever means they could, but it would undoubtedly be a slow process. The Ultramarines took several centuries to recover their lost First Company to full strength after the first Tyrannic War.


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I read on LEX that prior to the heresy that the Imperial Fists had clashed with the Alpha Legion many times but the nature of these clashes were unknown.

Just wondered if anyone has any info on this?


----------



## Dicrel Seijin

COMPNOR said:


> Would they remove the second progenoid from the living Space Marines, and slowly rebuild?


They can't do this. A SM without his progenoid begins to slowly die. And some Chapters (the Silver Skulls being one) no longer consider that person a Space Marine.



COMPNOR said:


> Would they use slaves like how the original 1,000 were created, slowly replicating them?


Possible, but I haven't read where a Chapter (as opposed to others) have done this. It would just be easier to recruit and implant scouts, that way you're building your effective forces up. 



COMPNOR said:


> Would the High Lords of Terra gift them additional geneseed to rebuild their numbers, creating a mix of geneseed?


Each Chapter does give over a 5% tithe, so they could request their own geneseed from the stockpile. Whether this could happen, I don't know.


----------



## COMPNOR

> They can't do this. A SM without his progenoid begins to slowly die. And some Chapters (the Silver Skulls being one) no longer consider that person a Space Marine.


This is being discussed in another thread, so I'm not going to say it isn't possible. That there isn't enough information, and what there is seems to conflict. So it might be possible, might not be.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Dicrel Seijin said:


> They can't do this. A SM without his progenoid begins to slowly die. And some Chapters (the Silver Skulls being one) no longer consider that person a Space Marine.


Not heard that before. As soon as they're matured they can be removed without detriment as far as I know.




Dicrel Seijin said:


> Possible, but I haven't read where a Chapter (as opposed to others) have done this. It would just be easier to recruit and implant scouts, that way you're building your effective forces up.


The slaves are how a Chapter is created in the first place, thousands of humans are implanted with geneseed and the various organs are harvested ready to be surgically implanted in aspirants in a newly founded Chapter.


----------



## COMPNOR

Speaking of those slaves.... how do the numbers work out? I mean, I read it takes over half a century(i saw 55 years) to create those 1,000. 

Given that progenoids absorb the genes from other organs, are all organs implanted? I guess then they don't follow the strict protocols regarding implantation?


----------



## Dicrel Seijin

Baron Spikey said:


> Not heard that before. As soon as they're matured they can be removed without detriment as far as I know.


The OP is referring to the second progenoid, so the SM would actually have no progenoid left. 

In the _Gildar Rift_, the Silver Skulls actually discuss what they're going to do with one of their own, which this happens to. I haven't come across another similar situation, but I haven't read all of Black Library (yet :biggrin: ).




Baron Spikey said:


> The slaves are how a Chapter is created in the first place, thousands of humans are implanted with geneseed and the various organs are harvested ready to be surgically implanted in aspirants in a newly founded Chapter.


Not disputing that, but the OP is asking about an existing Chapter, not a new one. 

Considering the ritual and tradition that has built up around the implantation process in every Chapter I've read about, I can't see (not saying it isn't possible) a Chapter implanting slaves when they can just implant initiates/novitiates and begin rebuilding immediately. 




COMPNOR said:


> Speaking of those slaves.... how do the numbers work out? I mean, I read it takes over half a century(i saw 55 years) to create those 1,000.


This is usually the number of years cited. Which is why I think it would make more sense for an understrength Chapter to recruit and implant initiates to rebuild their scout and reserve companies as soon as possible. Since even being understrength is no excuse not to go out on missions.




COMPNOR said:


> Given that progenoids absorb the genes from other organs, are all organs implanted? I guess then they don't follow the strict protocols regarding implantation?


I don't believe all organs are implanted since that would make the slave (I'm assuming implantation in slaves is what you are referring to) as close to a space marine recruit as makes no difference. 

I haven't come across any story where the AdMech are creating a new Chapter, which I assume would detail the process.


----------



## COMPNOR

Dicrel Seijin said:


> The OP is referring to the second progenoid, so the SM would actually have no progenoid left.
> 
> In the _Gildar Rift_, the Silver Skulls actually discuss what they're going to do with one of their own, which this happens to. I haven't come across another similar situation, but I haven't read all of Black Library (yet :biggrin: ).
> 
> 
> 
> Not disputing that, but the OP is asking about an existing Chapter, not a new one.
> 
> Considering the ritual and tradition that has built up around the implantation process in every Chapter I've read about, I can't see (not saying it isn't possible) a Chapter implanting slaves when they can just implant initiates/novitiates and begin rebuilding immediately.
> 
> But really, that last bit was about how 1,000 progenoids are created in a 55 year period. Just trying to do the math.
> 
> 
> 
> This is usually the number of years cited. Which is why I think it would make more sense for an understrength Chapter to recruit and implant initiates to rebuild their scout and reserve companies as soon as possible. Since even being understrength is no excuse not to go out on missions.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe all organs are implanted since that would make the slave (I'm assuming implantation in slaves is what you are referring to) as close to a space marine recruit as makes no difference.
> 
> I haven't come across any story where the AdMech are creating a new Chapter, which I assume would detail the process.


But if you don't implant all organs, how is the new progenoid created? I mean, there's more to being a Space Marine then just receiving the geneseed, so perhaps the slaves are kept in a kind of stasis, where the organs are implanted, but maybe done in such a manner that they offer no real benefit to the slave. I dunno.

But that last bit was about trying to make the numbers work, how 1k are created in approx 55 years.


----------



## Dicrel Seijin

COMPNOR said:


> But if you don't implant all organs, how is the new progenoid created? I mean, there's more to being a Space Marine then just receiving the geneseed, so perhaps the slaves are kept in a kind of stasis, where the organs are implanted, but maybe done in such a manner that they offer no real benefit to the slave. I dunno.
> 
> But that last bit was about trying to make the numbers work, how 1k are created in approx 55 years.


I can't say I have the answers to your slave implantation question. 

As for the 1K in 55yrs, I don't remember where I read it, but someone did a walkthrough of the math. Basically, you begin with 1 progenoid in 1 slave. Wait 5 years, remove the matured 1 at the throat, implant in a new slave. Now you have 2 progenoids in 2 slaves. Wait another 5 years. Remove the second fully matured progenoid from the first slave (and presumably discard this slave) and the one from the throat of the second. Implant in 2 new slaves. You now have 3 slaves with 3 progenoids (1 that will fully mature, 2 that will duplicate). It starts off slow, but the numbers do get up there after a few generations.


----------



## COMPNOR

How new is Mark VIII "Errant" Armour?


----------



## Emperorguard500

Torias Tallon will star in the upcoming Dan Abnett Black Library book "Eye of Vengance" he is a master marksman and scout

is he an original character or a new created one by Dan


----------



## Lord Azune

Torias Telion - Brother Sergeant of the Ultramarines 10th company. You can find his stats and some of his fluff on page 88 of the Space Marine codex.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Emperorguard500 said:


> Torias Tallon will star in the upcoming Dan Abnett Black Library book "Eye of Vengance" he is a master marksman and scout
> 
> is he an original character or a new created one by Dan


By Dan, seriously? Are you taking the piss or just a little illiterate? The huge print at the top of the image declaring Graham McNeill to be the author surely suggests that Dan Abnett isn't...


----------



## Emperorguard500

was Lord Solar Macharius accomponied with space marines during his 7 year galaxy-wide crusade, or just imperial guard troops etc?


----------



## Serpion5

Emperorguard500 said:


> was Lord Solar Macharius accomponied with space marines during his 7 year galaxy-wide crusade, or just imperial guard troops etc?


Imperial Navy and Guard as I understand it. Space Marine chapters are mostly autonomous.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Emperorguard500 said:


> was Lord Solar Macharius accomponied with space marines during his 7 year galaxy-wide crusade, or just imperial guard troops etc?


IIRC just Guard & Navy. However large elements of Astartes Chapters were used to put down the Macharian Heresy.


----------



## Rems

Actually i believe there was an Astartes contingent. One of the Chapters in the Babdab Imperial Armour books, noted as being unsuitable for close support of other Imperial Forces (ie; a bit too much friendly fire going on). 

When i have the book to hand i can give the actual name of the chapter(s).


----------



## Davidicus 40k

Something fairly simple. Is Exterminatus carried out by an Astartes fleet all the time? If so, what class of ship is typically used? Same question applies if the Navy is sanctioned to perform the deed as well.

I think they just load up the nearest strike cruiser with wholesome cyclonic torpedoes/virus bombs, but I want to double-check!


----------



## Serpion5

Astartes are allowed to invoke Exterminatus. I am unsure if there arsenal is limited to specific ships or not however. 

I am not sure if Imperial vessels also carry this authority. I know Inquisitors do but the example I think of was still carried out by an astartes cruiser.


----------



## El_Lobo

Hi Heretics,

2 questions:
1. How much does a 'typical' Imperial civilian know about the Asartes? How detailed do you suppose their knowledge would be ie. Salamanders=Nocturne? I think the original 9 loyalists would be household names but wonder if they are given or even want specifics 
on SM. Obviously anything that could jeopardize IoM holdings would be left out but the more trivial knowledge stuff we all devour. 
I always assumed they were used as propaganda within the IoM but got to thinking about it today and couldn't recall where or indeed if I had read that. May be a dumb question but can anyone give me a good example (preferably a BL novel) that shows Imperial SM propaganda being dispersed upon the masses? 

2. I'm sure this one has popped up before but is there more info on the Black Consuls than what is given in the SM codex? I'm specifically interested in the Goddeth Hive conflict that wiped them out. Any info on who the war was fought against or wel....anything? Trying to find inspiration for a Chaos leader in preparation for next edition to drop and I think a fallen Consul might be cool.


----------



## Davidicus 40k

El_Lobo,

1) A typical Imperial citizen knows what a Space Marine is - at least, he/she has an idea - but to him/her, Marines are more subjects of legend and myth. He/she may not know all the specifics, but at the very least, he/she recognizes Marines as the Emperor's ultimate warriors - his Angels of Death - and, in most cases, agents of salvation and deliverance.

Space Marines aren't necessarily used as "propaganda", per sé, although many things are propagandized in the Imperium. Tales of their actions and the ideals they stand for are enough to inspire the average Imperial citizen.

2) Have to let someone else take this one. I haven't read as much on Black Consuls as I should .


----------



## Designation P-90

Why is Grimaldus such an insufferable asshole? I am nearly done with Helsreach and this guy has ZERO redeeming qualities. I have seen stinking Chaos Marines that aren't as nasty as he is.

edit: It took until the last 50 pages for him to stop being a jerk...


----------



## forkmaster

Designation P-90 said:


> Why is Grimaldus such an insufferable asshole? I am nearly done with Helsreach and this guy has ZERO redeeming qualities. I have seen stinking Chaos Marines that aren't as nasty as he is.
> 
> edit: It took until the last 50 pages for him to stop being a jerk...


Well that was ADB main idea, that Grimaldus has absolutly no way of seeing empatic emotions or understanding how humans act and feel. Those emotions are entirely alien to him.


----------



## Rems

Exactly. It is to my mind, a much more accurate portrayal of Space Marines than say the Ultramarine's series which essentially depicts them as stronger humans.

Space Marines are so much more (and less) than that though. They are child killers, taken when boys are at that stage when they're little shits and think they're invincible. They they surgically alter them to make them actually invincible whilst brainwashing and indoctrinating them and erasing their previous life. They are removed from contact with normal humans and engage in decades or centuries of the bloodiest warfare imaginable. 

Do you really think people subjected to all that would be 'normal' or relateable to? Space marine are living weapons, beyond human concerns and cares, shaped and moulded as tools of the Imperium.


----------



## g00dd0ct0r

Cheeky question, have there been many of the newly formed chapters that have fallen to chaos?


----------



## MarqFJA87

Has there been anything in the "official fluff" that indicates whether or not the title of "Inquisitor Lord"/"Lord Inquisitor" is gender-neutral? Or, in other words: Is a female "Inquisitor Lord" normally called "Inquisitor Lady" in official fluff? I mean, I've never heard of a _canon_ female Inquisitor who was of the "Lord Inquisitor" rank.

The same question applies to IG and IN ranks/title that use "Lord" as an integral part of them, like "Lord General", "Lord Admiral", and "Lord Commander Militant", and even the title of "High Lord (of Terra)".

@g00dd0ct0r: Well, these two lists seems to imply that the answer is "yes", at least over the entire period of 10,000 years since the Horus Heresy.


----------



## Emperorguard500

primarchs chilling on a balcony
*
can someone name them for me right to left?*


----------



## spanner94ezekiel

Sanguinius, Mortarion, Magnus, Angron, the Khan, Lorgar, Dorn, Horus, Fulgrim.


----------



## Emperorguard500

spanner94ezekiel said:


> Sanguinius, Mortarion, Magnus, Angron, the Khan, Lorgar, Dorn, Horus, Fulgrim.


who would be considered the most powerful out of those primarchs, since not all the primarchs are on the balcony

just on the balcony in that picture who is the strongest


----------



## spanner94ezekiel

That question can't really be answered as they all have their own strengths/weaknesses:
- Sanguinius: Excellent hth combatant. 
- Mortarion: Extremely tough/resilient
- Magnus: Most powerful psyker
- Angron: Most powerful/aggressive in CC
- Khan: Most mobile tactics
- Lorgar: Most inspiring
- Dorn: Best defence strategist
- Horus: Most persuasive/strongest leader
- Fulgrim: Perfectionist and excellent swordsman


----------



## Emperorguard500

ok thank you really much

some other questions i got

1. does ibram gaunt and ciaphas cain live in the same time period, where they possibly could of known of each other

2. do either gaunt or cain live in the same time period as macharius and his macharian crusade?

3. what is gaunt's physical apperance?


----------



## Serpion5

Emperorguard500 said:


> ok thank you really much
> 
> some other questions i got
> 
> 1. does ibram gaunt and ciaphas cain live in the same time period, where they possibly could of known of each other
> 
> 2. do either gaunt or cain live in the same time period as macharius and his macharian crusade?
> 
> 3. what is gaunt's physical apperance?


1: No. 

2: No. 

3: Lean but muscular, somewhat similar to the guy on the front cover of most of his books.


----------



## Emperorguard500

would macharius be considered one of the greatest military minds/commander the empire has ever had, rivaled only by the emperor and maybe the primarchs?

the dates of the birth and death of gaunt?

the dates of the birth and death of cain?


----------



## forkmaster

Emperorguard500 said:


> would macharius be considered one of the greatest military minds/commander the empire has ever had, rivaled only by the emperor and maybe the primarchs?
> 
> the dates of the birth and death of gaunt?
> 
> the dates of the birth and death of cain?


1) He ws a great military mind, but the best I wouldnt say. There are thousands just like him, he is just an example that has come through the fluff.
2) Its an ongoing series which has ended yet, we dont know when he died, but he was born in the middle of 700.M41.
3) The same here, but Cain has went into retirement somewere around 200.M.42. I'd suggest you read both of the series + checking lexicanum for more information.


----------



## Baron Spikey

forkmaster said:


> 3) The same here, but Cain has went into retirement somewere around 200.M.42. I'd suggest you read both of the series + checking lexicanum for more information.


some time in the late 900's.M41 actually.


----------



## forkmaster

So I have a question, how can one describe the appearence of Vandred/the Exalted in details?  I've started a Night Lords army based upon the characters from the trilogy, and I'm thinking about creating the Exalted, but I have only vague details in memory.


----------



## Lux

spanner94ezekiel said:


> That question can't really be answered as they all have their own strengths/weaknesses:
> - Sanguinius: Excellent hth combatant.
> - Mortarion: Extremely tough/resilient
> - Magnus: Most powerful psyker
> - Angron: Most powerful/aggressive in CC
> - Khan: Most mobile tactics
> - Lorgar: Most inspiring
> - Dorn: Best defence strategist
> - Horus: Most persuasive/strongest leader
> - Fulgrim: Perfectionist and excellent swordsman


Nice list of details, would be willing to add that Lorgar ranks pretty high on the psyker power list as of now with the most recent novels released. I would even go so far as to say Lorgar in terms of combat with his psyker abilities is super to Magnus. Of which magnus is the greatest psyker all aroound, but purely in combat Lorgar has shown more impressive feats of power and domination with psyker abilities.

Particularly that he was ready to face down and dominate Angron in combat if need be.

I would also add that Curze was pretty strong in terms of psyker power as well, but he seems to be a mix of being very tough ressiliant (Mortarion trait), mixed with psyker powers (magnus), while also being very intelligent psychologically.


----------



## TechPr1est

what happend to the golden throne? why cant the techpreists fix it? whats going to happen?




oh and what happened to the karskins from the imperial guard its in the guard 4th ed dex but not the 5th


----------



## Jacobite

So I should have figured this out before painting up a test mini but I didn't and now I'm trying to figure it out and its doing my nut in. 

Astral Claws colour scheme what the hell is up with their shoulder pads, there eseems to be very little reason for the coloration on them, wyat means what etc. i cant find anything wirtten anywhere so im simply going off pictures... Which isnt easy. Here is what I think is right: 


Centurions/strikeleaders/sergeants whatever they want.
Sargeants: double silver trim, double blue pad
Veterans: double gold trim, one silver pad, one blue pad
Rank and file: double silver trim one silver pad, one blue pad (or double silver pads)
Retaliators: gold back pack vents then as normal.

I've seen peope paint them multiple ways but i was just wondering what the fluff wayof doing it was. Course it could just personal astartes choice. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Baron Spikey

TechPr1est said:


> what happend to the golden throne? why cant the techpreists fix it? whats going to happen?


The Techpriests don't even know exactly how it works so when it begins to fail after _10,000 years_ they're not in the best situation to fix it.






TechPr1est said:


> oh and what happened to the karskins from the imperial guard its in the guard 4th ed dex but not the 5th


Kasrkin, specifically, were in the Eye of Terror mini-Codex not the IG Codex. But even so Kasrkin are essentially just Cadian Stormtroopers- no real difference to the Imperial Stormtroopers in the Codex already.


----------



## dylan

I've got a 3500pt spacemarine army I've recently bought 2 5man terminator squads that are pro painted from eBay for 95 dollars! I have 2 dreadnoughts 70 space marines a transport I have some heroes A drop pod and 3 terminator squads and 9 assault marines 
I need help because I dont know what to get next


----------



## Baron Spikey

dylan said:


> I've got a 3500pt spacemarine army I've recently bought 2 5man terminator squads that are pro painted from eBay for 95 dollars! I have 2 dreadnoughts 70 space marines a transport I have some heroes A drop pod and 3 terminator squads and 9 assault marines
> I need help because I dont know what to get next


Sorry mate this is a Fluff Questions thread- you'd probably want to make your query in the General 40k section so the sort of people who can most fully help you out see it :so_happy:


----------



## TechPr1est

is there anyone still alive* that witnessed the horus heresy (like they were there)

* guillimna dosnt count anyone who can talk and walk


----------



## Ghost-Bat

TechPr1est said:


> is there anyone still alive* that witnessed the horus heresy (like they were there)
> 
> * guillimna dosnt count anyone who can talk and walk


I'm not sure if Bjorn the Fell-Handed counts but he is a definitely confirmed survivor of the Horus Heresy, despite that he is confined to a Dreadnought. The other possibilities rest with certain members of the Eldar, and definitely a few Chaos Marines. E.g., Abaddon the Despoiler, Lucius the Eternal, Fabius Bile...


----------



## Sturmovic

Probably quite a few Mechanicus fellas as well.
Metal is replaceable, and there are plenty of Titans (if not most) that are Heresy veterans, presumably commanded by the same Mechanicus crews.

Also relevant to your avatar.


----------



## forkmaster

As from what I understand in _Titanicus_, and as well _Helsreach_, is that Titan crew has limited lifespans before the machine takes over and they go mental. 

My questions is, when did Talos aquire Malcharions twinlinked bolter?  What weapon did he have before that? The same with the Blood Angels blade.


----------



## Rems

Titan princeps usually have a lifespan of a few centuries. I can't think of any that have reached a millennia. The engines themselves can indeed last for millennia (and some are from the days of the Heresy) their crews cannot. 

Full fledged members of the Mechanicus, your Arch-Magos' are a different story however. They can prolong their lifespans for millennia. Their minds however decay, leading them to go mental (more mental). 

Talos acquired Malcharion's bolter after he (Malcharion) was reawakened as a dreadnought. His own had been destroyed. It's during the events of _Soul Hunter_.

The sword he liberated from a Blood Angel obviously. I don't believe it's ever exactly mentioned when. It's seems he's had it for a good few centuries at the least however.


----------



## forkmaster

Rems said:


> Titan princeps usually have a lifespan of a few centuries. I can't think of any that have reached a millennia. The engines themselves can indeed last for millennia (and some are from the days of the Heresy) their crews cannot.
> 
> Full fledged members of the Mechanicus, your Arch-Magos' are a different story however. They can prolong their lifespans for millennia. Their minds however decay, leading them to go mental (more mental).
> 
> Talos acquired Malcharion's bolter after he (Malcharion) was reawakened as a dreadnought. His own had been destroyed. It's during the events of _Soul Hunter_.
> 
> The sword he liberated from a Blood Angel obviously. I don't believe it's ever exactly mentioned when. It's seems he's had it for a good few centuries at the least however.


Ahh ok thank you very much for the answers.  I'm gonna make a model based upon him, but I will skip the Malcharion-bolter then and just use a regular one. ^^


----------



## The_Reaper

Just wondering where in the fluff does it say that Drach'yen can one hit kill besides the description in the CSM codex.


----------



## Serpion5

The_Reaper said:


> Just wondering where in the fluff does it say that Drach'yen can one hit kill besides the description in the CSM codex.


That's about it. Drach'nyen is described as being able to "rend reality."


----------



## TheGoblin

Quick Dark Eldar question, is the "Glass Plague" ever present in Commorragh? I may of got myself confused but did they actually get rid of it or just find a way to stop it working? The reason I ask is that in the book Path of the Renegade (which is great by the way)

*spoilers below*
the worldsinger manages to overwhelm some sort of nanobots by making the glass plague grow quicker? So did they just release the glass plague into that specific room, or is it ever present?


----------



## Gret79

As they were prepared for it I'd say its likely they come into contact with it fairly often. Although whether its just kicking about or they have THAT many assassination attempts...


----------



## Apostle

two questions

1.Am I correct that Bjorn the Fell Handed, during the HH could not be killed by Horus because he did not know his name? (not couldnt kill him in combat, but at that time he couldnt for some reason?)

2.(off topic) Can someone please please post my fan fiction in the Original Works part of the forum. my computer WILL NOT on pain of death, let me do it. But I want to post some. Will anyone let me IM them something, then post it? Please please!!!!!!


----------



## Emperorguard500

1. Was the Badab War limited to only the badab sector or was it galaxy-spreading

2. Where were the famous chapters like ultramarines, black templars etc. etc. during the badab war?


----------



## Serpion5

Apostle said:


> two questions
> 
> 1.Am I correct that Bjorn the Fell Handed, during the HH could not be killed by Horus because he did not know his name? (not couldnt kill him in combat, but at that time he couldnt for some reason?)
> 
> 2.(off topic) Can someone please please post my fan fiction in the Original Works part of the forum. my computer WILL NOT on pain of death, let me do it. But I want to post some. Will anyone let me IM them something, then post it? Please please!!!!!!


Contact an admin about this issue dude. Jezlad or galahad should be able to help you out.


----------



## Rems

Emperorguard500 said:


> 1. Was the Badab War limited to only the badab sector or was it galaxy-spreading
> 
> 2. Where were the famous chapters like ultramarines, black templars etc. etc. during the badab war?


1.The Babdab War, as the name suggests took place in the Babdab sector. It was not a galactic level conflict (I can't think of any, except the War in Heaven which were). 

2. Engaged in other wars. A chapter's attention is always occupied by a variety of threats, calls for aid etc. Priority would be given to those nearest and most significant. The Ultramarines or the Blood Angels are not going to be in every conflict, even every major conflict. The galaxy is simply too large with too many things demanding a chapter's attention.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Apostle said:


> 1.Am I correct that Bjorn the Fell Handed, during the HH could not be killed by Horus because he did not know his name? (not couldnt kill him in combat, but at that time he couldnt for some reason?)


You are referring to the climax of _Prospero Burns_. It wasn't Horus, but a daemon masquerading as Horus who couldn't claim authority over Björn because Hawser (off whom the daemon had learnt his name) had mistranslated his name as "Bear". That is how I remember it, but its been a while since I read it now.


----------



## Emperorguard500

1. does sanguinius have black hair or blonde hair....i thought he always had black, but in art he is shown to have long blond hair


----------



## Designation P-90

Is there a chart that shows how big vehicles are compared to humans?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Emperorguard500 said:


> 1. does sanguinius have black hair or blonde hair....i thought he always had black, but in art he is shown to have long blond hair


Most sources show him with blonde hair, although there was a bit of confusion when one or two Heresy novels claimed he had dark hair. I believe _Fear to Tread_ - as the most recent source - portrays him with blonde hair though.


----------



## spanner94ezekiel

I read that Tzeentch was once the most powerful of the Chaos gods, but the other three teamed up, defeated him and broke his staff. However, I would assume this took place before the Fall of the Eldar. Therefore, did Slaanesh actually exist at this point, or is this part of the paradox of Slaanesh having always existed, but was also born as a result of the Fall?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

spanner94ezekiel said:


> I read that Tzeentch was once the most powerful of the Chaos gods, but the other three teamed up, defeated him and broke his staff. However, I would assume this took place before the Fall of the Eldar. Therefore, did Slaanesh actually exist at this point, or is this part of the paradox of Slaanesh having always existed, but was also born as a result of the Fall?


It's all a massive incomprehensible paradox. :wacko:


----------



## SonofMalice

Whibbly wobbley warpy whimy


----------



## Rems

Designation P-90 said:


> Is there a chart that shows how big vehicles are compared to humans?


In the Imperial codecies there's a schematic of a man, or Space Marine, next to each tank, you could extrapolate from there. 

Forge World's Imperial Armour books have actual to scale schemetics and written sizes though. A Land Raider for instance is 4.11 meters high, 6.1m in width and 10.3m long. Significantly larger than a M1 Abrams. 

Were there any particular vehicles you were after? I'd be happy to look their sizes up for you.


----------



## Designation P-90

Rems said:


> In the Imperial codecies there's a schematic of a man, or Space Marine, next to each tank, you could extrapolate from there.
> 
> Forge World's Imperial Armour books have actual to scale schemetics and written sizes though. A Land Raider for instance is 4.11 meters high, 6.1m in width and 10.3m long. Significantly larger than a M1 Abrams.
> 
> Were there any particular vehicles you were after? I'd be happy to look their sizes up for you.



Thanks! What is the size of a standard Baneblade? I ask because in _Angel of Fire _it says that a normal man would shatter his legs if he jumped off of the top.


----------



## Rems

A Baneblade is 6.3m high. I'm not sure if that includes the turret though. It's hull is also 13.5m long, 8.4m wide and weighs 320 tons. That's a big tank. Hell 6m is the height of your average two story house. 

If you don't land well i could see that distance breaking your legs.


----------



## Gret79

6.3 x 3.281 = 20.6703ft.

Not that anyone needs this - I remembered the conversion rate for meters to feet...


----------



## Noyzmarine

I've always found it hard to believe that 10 fully armored marines could fit into this sardine can!:biggrin: I think they should be represented as a bit larger!


----------



## Designation P-90

Rems said:


> A Baneblade is 6.3m high. I'm not sure if that includes the turret though. It's hull is also 13.5m long, 8.4m wide and weighs 320 tons. That's a big tank. Hell 6m is the height of your average two story house.
> 
> If you don't land well i could see that distance breaking your legs.



Geez... Now it makes sense how the thing has corridors and separate rooms etc.


----------



## Emperorguard500

1. *why does Abaddon look down on Horus?*


2.* would a SM legion (pre-heresy) obey another primarch orders..... that isn't there own primarch

so for instance would the ultramarines listen to an order by sanguinius.... say guillaman wasn't there for some reason..... would they obey sangquinius..*.


----------



## CE5511

Emperorguard500 said:


> 1. *why does Abaddon look down on Horus?*
> 
> 
> 2.* would a SM legion (pre-heresy) obey another primarch orders..... that isn't there own primarch
> 
> so for instance would the ultramarines listen to an order by sanguinius.... say guillaman wasn't there for some reason..... would they obey sangquinius..*.



Abaddon looks at horus as a pawn of the gods, used. He had the heresy won and he let that slip from his grasp. Abaddon doesn't think he is anyone's fool like horus was.

Other legions would listen to other primarchs, some to different degrees I'm sure, but in the end, all the primarchs are generals to the same force leader and more or less had the same intent.


----------



## Emperorguard500

1. in the 13th black crusade..... we know abaddon is leading it... what about the daemon princes (the former primarchs) that are still alive... are the aiding abaddon in the crusade as well


----------



## Rems

No, they're not involved. 

The only Primarch that we know of who's led campaigns in the materium post heresy is Angron. He couldn't have been involved in the 13th Black Crusade as he was banished after his loss at the First War for Armageddon.


----------



## TechPr1est

borrowed Age of darkness from the library and read the first story about the smurfs(forgot what it was called)

1. What on earth was going on? Ultramarines vs salamanders Guilliman is Horus da fuck?
i know it must have been a simulator of some sort but. da fuck?? i struggled to follow along with the story. was that a simulator?

2. Do you think there will be a 4th war for armaggedon?

3. is there any horus heresy books based around the salamanders, White scars iron warriors and iron hands?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

TechPr1est said:


> borrowed Age of darkness from the library and read the first story about the smurfs(forgot what it was called)
> 
> 1. What on earth was going on? Ultramarines vs salamanders Guilliman is Horus da fuck?
> i know it must have been a simulator of some sort but. da fuck?? i struggled to follow along with the story. was that a simulator?


Yes, it was a simulator. _Rules of Engagement_ shows the XIII field testing the Codex Astartes.



TechPr1est said:


> 3. is there any horus heresy books based around the salamanders, White scars iron warriors and iron hands?


IIRC:

The Salamanders do not feature prominently in any novel as of yet, though they do feature in _Promethean Sun_ and one Salamander features in _Forgotten Sons_.

The Iron Warriors have their own short story in the _Age of Darkness_ compilation, and will feature heavily in the upcoming _Angel Exterminatus_.

The Iron Hands feature in _Fulgrim_, _Promethean Sun_, _Feat of Iron_ and _Kryptos_. As well as a small role in _The Lion_.

The White Scars feature minorly in _Descent of Angels_ and _Little Horus_, but will no doubt get some screen time at some point the future. The current rumour is that Chris Wraight will be writing a White Scars HH novel.



Emperorguard500 said:


> 1. *why does Abaddon look down on Horus?*


Quite simply, because Horus failed.


----------



## forkmaster

Rems said:


> No, they're not involved.
> 
> The only Primarch that we know of who's led campaigns in the materium post heresy is Angron. He couldn't have been involved in the 13th Black Crusade as he was banished after his loss at the First War for Armageddon.


Not entirely true, Magnus the Red was involved with sacking Fenris in M.32 as well, but those are the only known instances. Angron is at the moment waiting until he can return and the other Primarchs are just sitting on their asses as they got all the time in the world to do so.


----------



## Emperorguard500

are the tau the most advanced race in 40k?..


----------



## normtheunsavoury

No, that would be either the Necrons or the Eldar.


----------



## Rems

The Imperium is also, arguably, more advanced than the Tau. While Tau tech is shiny and clean and very 'modern' looking, they don't outperform the Imperium in many areas, and those in which they do are due to scale. 



TechPr1est said:


> borrowed Age of darkness from the library and read the first story about the smurfs(forgot what it was called)
> 
> 1. What on earth was going on? Ultramarines vs salamanders Guilliman is Horus da fuck?
> i know it must have been a simulator of some sort but. da fuck?? i struggled to follow along with the story. was that a simulator?


Yes it was a simulation. 

You'll notice 'dead' marines getting back up after the fighting, 'casualties' moaning about how it's their turn to be the dead ones and they're using altered bolters. The other legions were costumed Ultramarines.

As COTE said it was a field testing of the Codex Astartes, making sure his legion could handle other legions in the field. Being a time of confusion and shifting loyalties he tested it against loyalist legions aswell, it being best to be prepared.


----------



## Emperorguard500

does the imperium view chaos as a bigger threat then there xenos foes (eldar, tau, necron, tyranids etc.)


----------



## Vaz

depends who you are talking to. Eastern fringe? nids.

Macragge nids or dark eldar.

Cadia - chaos

Armageddon - jeff goldblum, I mean erm orks.


----------



## Rems

In terms of the Imperial Hierarchy and the Inquisition then Chaos is probably perceived as the greatest threat. It's the enemy within as well as without.

It was Chaos which turned Horus, who turns Astartes, that causes secret cults to ferment and planets to rebel, Chaos which posses psykers and corrupts the mind and soul. Chaos is the cancerous underbelly gnawing at the Imperium. The High Lords of Terra live in fear of Abaddon finally reuniting all the Legions and renegades and overwhelming Cadia. 

In local areas there may be greater, or more pressing threats but for the leaders of the Imperium and the empire in general it's Chaos. 

@Vaz, why would Maccrage hold the Dark Eldar to be a sever threat?


----------



## TechPr1est

When are we expecting the horus heresy series to come an end ?


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Right after Horus gets turned into crispy bacon.


----------



## redmapa

my guess is that it'll be sometime next year..the siege of terra should get a huge book of short stories that tie in into the final book that is basically just the emperor's fall and interrment after he kicks horus off existence..


----------



## spanner94ezekiel

In the new rulebook, there's a section on exterminatus (don't have it to hand so I can't provide a page reference). It describes each Imperial faction as having their own method e.g. Cyclonic torpedos, mass bombardment etc.
Howeverm it describes Astartes exterminatus as being delivered to the surface by a team of Space Marines. I've never heard of such an event occurring, while the closest I can think of are the Deathwatch's seek and destroy missions against Hive Fleets. Does anyone know of an instance where this form of exterminatus was used?


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Pg 154 and it talks about an "Exterminatus Device" being set on the surface.


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

redmapa said:


> my guess is that it'll be sometime next year..the siege of terra should get a huge book of short stories that tie in into the final book that is basically just the emperor's fall and interrment after he kicks horus off existence..


I'd put a significant amount of money on the series finishing much later than next year.


----------



## forkmaster

In the book A Thousand Sons, we get to see the psykers of the Legion are lead by some sort of mentor which people explained later on to actually be daemons in disguise. I dont have the book at hand here, but could someone please tell me what they are called?


----------



## Gret79

forkmaster said:


> In the book A Thousand Sons, we get to see the psykers of the Legion are lead by some sort of mentor which people explained later on to actually be daemons in disguise. I dont have the book at hand here, but could someone please tell me what they are called?


Been trying to remember for about 3 hours now...

They were Tutelaries! 

:victory:


----------



## forkmaster

Gret79 said:


> Been trying to remember for about 3 hours now...
> 
> They were Tutelaries!
> 
> :victory:


Thank you very much!


----------



## Vaz

@rems sorry for late reply. The DarkEldar are mentioned predating on the macragge peoples IIRC during the first Ultramarines novels?


----------



## Emperorguard500

does the emperor view himself as superior to all humans?>


----------



## normtheunsavoury

Everyone except me, he bows down before me and trembles with fear before my mighty presence.


----------



## TechPr1est

i want to get in the ciphias cain and gaunts ghosts series


what order does the gaunts ghosts series ,by dan i think, go in


----------



## Mossy Toes

You'd probably be best off getting the omnibi for Gaunt's Ghosts. The first omnibus collects the first three novels--_First & Only, Ghostmaker_, and _Necropolis_--and is called _The Founding_. You can find reviews and the like in the Black Library section of the forums.


----------



## forkmaster

So I'm thinking of putting together a Malcharion Dreadnought and I was wondering what type of weapons he has on his arms. As I understand from Void Stalker is that he at least carries a heavy bolter? Is it something any of you would like to expand upon and tell me?


----------



## Braakbal

According to the novel Soul Hunter, Malcharion is armed with an autocannon.


----------



## Chaosrider

Didn't know if this warranted its own thread or a spot anywhere else so I'm gonna ask it here. What happened to the random name generators? Did they get moved or are they no longer on the site? And I found a link to the space marine name generator in Baron Spikey's thread on chapter background that takes me to a page that doesn't load. I'm in need of some names and can't think of anymore :/


----------



## Quozzo

Not sure, but here's one i made earlier. http://s7.zetaboards.com/Librarium/pages/cnc

I'd be willing to give Jezlad the rights to host it on his site if he wants to.


----------



## Emperorguard500

2 questions about primarchs

1. are primarchs taller then space marines on average?

2. how much more powerful are they?


----------



## normtheunsavoury

1, yes

2, very


----------



## Braakbal

I'm looking for a quote from Lord Commander Eidolon of the Emperor's Children.
IIRC a part of it was 'Chaos compels me, Slaanesh rewards me'.

Does anyone know the full quote and where I can find it ?


----------



## Malus Darkblade

It's been a while since I've read_* Know no Fear*_ but at one point in the book, Kor Phaeron mentioned giving each of the traitor Primarchs a copy of Lorgar's work.

When he thought of the Alpha Legion, he mentioned passing out two copies which means he knew about Omegon. 

When the Alpha Legion sided with Horus, were all the traitor Primarchs/legions suddenly told of Omegon by Alpharius himself?


----------



## kwak76

Malus Darkblade,

Good question. I don't think the other traitor primarch knows about the twin primarchs. It's not in Alpharius nature to reveal information about themselves.


----------



## kwak76

I heard that tyranids avoid tomb worlds but do they also avoid chaos infested worlds?


----------



## Serpion5

kwak76 said:


> I heard that tyranids avoid tomb worlds but do they also avoid chaos infested worlds?


Generally no. I seem to recall one or two instances of Chaos rituals attracting the bugs, but can't place them right now. 

In any case there is little reason for nids to avoid a Chaos tainted world.


----------



## forkmaster

Serpion5 said:


> Generally no. I seem to recall one or two instances of Chaos rituals attracting the bugs, but can't place them right now.
> 
> In any case there is little reason for nids to avoid a Chaos tainted world.


In the Inquisitor Czevak short called _Necessary Evil_ there



is a Tyranid/gene-stealer cult within te Eye of Terror and they seemed immune to corruption (because they don't feel in that way and is united as one mind) so I don't think they fear it.


----------



## Nightside

I haven't read the TSons novels or Ahriman:Exile yet,so if this has been answered...


How does Ahriman feel about Magnus?(Post-exile that is)


----------



## AgentOrange24

So, can someone explain warp travel to me during the time of the Heresy?

I get that in 40k, the Emperor sets on the Throne, guiding the Astronomican while a bunch of psykers power it.

Well, how did that work during the Heresy? How was everyone getting around when the Emperor was in space with the Crusade? What about when he went back to the palace?

In short, how does the operation of the beacon differ between 40k and the Heresy, because there seems to be something fundamentally different about its operation between the two time periods.


----------



## Mossy Toes

According, at least, to _The Outcast Dead,_ in the HH, the Astronomicon appears to be called the "hollow mountain," a place where the weaker-minded psykers enter but never leave. I assume that it's sufficiently self-sustainable that it can be left to run, perhaps with only Malcador making a few tweaks now and then.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

I'd imagine the Emperor in his prime was capable of many things. Powering the Astronomican on the go wouldn't of been to hard I think.


----------



## forkmaster

Can someone please explain the army organization of the Iron Warriors pre- and during the Horus Heresy? For if you read "_The Crimson Fist_", Berossus for instance is Captain of the 2nd Grand (I assume but it didn't say) Company. 

In _Angel Exterminatus_, he is a Warsmith of the 2nd Grand Battalion. Are there any differences between a Warsmith and Captain and what's the difference between a Grand Company and a Grand Battalion?


----------



## locustgate

forkmaster said:


> Can someone please explain the army organization of the Iron Warriors pre- and during the Horus Heresy? For if you read "_The Crimson Fist_", Berossus for instance is Captain of the 2nd Grand (I assume but it didn't say) Company.
> 
> In _Angel Exterminatus_, he is a Warsmith of the 2nd Grand Battalion. Are there any differences between a Warsmith and Captain and what's the difference between a Grand Company and a Grand Battalion?


A warsmith is the IW version of tech marine, going by some novels they are treated equal to or greater than Captains.
I would assume that Grand Battalion is a different name for Grand Company.


----------



## locustgate

Does anyone have a list/ know what ship classes where in use during the Crusade?


----------



## Chryckan

locustgate said:


> Does anyone have a list/ know what ship classes where in use during the Crusade?


Basically all the cruisers and battleships chaos uses in battlefleet Gothic as they are said to be old traitor ships that escaped into the warp.


----------



## locustgate

Chryckan said:


> Basically all the cruisers and battleships chaos uses in battlefleet Gothic as they are said to be old traitor ships that escaped into the warp.


Sorry should of been more specific, Imperial Ship Classes.


----------



## forkmaster

How is the Exalted from the Night Lords-trilogy described in appearence? How big is he? I'm thinking about doing the model and I want to be a thourough as possible!


----------



## Braakbal

Can anyone tell me what the prefix in the term Arco-Flagellant means ?


----------



## Mossy Toes

Probably from the latin _arcus_, meaning "arch" or "bow." I don't think it has a specific intended meaning in this case, but is more used to imply a technological/archaic/arcane connection; that is, this person is not only a flagellant, but they are a mechanized super-flagellant.

That said, this is all idle theorizing, not based in fact.


----------



## Braakbal

Hmm, that makes sense. I mean, they are turned in to combat-servitors of a kind.

Thx for the quick answer!


----------



## MarqFJA87

Where do Rogue Traders usually keep their Warrants of Trade? I know of one example -- Augustus Killian, from _Rogue Trader: The Koronus Bestiary_ -- where it was carried on the RT's own person via a stasis cylinder (thus implying that it's an easily concealable man-portable document, as opposed to speculation that it's actually a huge tome of legal jargon regarding the RT's responsibilities), and there's also mention in the RT Core Rulebook that old dynasties of RTs typically keep them in a stasis vault somewhere safe (on Terra according to _The Explorer's Handbook_, though that brings up the question of how the warrant-holder proves his credentials to Imperial authorities), but other than that, nothing.


----------



## Iraqiel

_Nemesis_ goes for the huge tome line of thought. I think it could be rather dependant on which system. For example, in a primarily feral system it's likely... possibly... printed on vellum and then held in stasis. On developed systems, it is likely that it would be stored on less archaic data systems, like the one you mentioned.


----------



## locustgate

MarqFJA87 said:


> stuff


In one of the Enforcer (one about rouge traders) I believe it, one of the original ones was a single sheet of paper that was stored in a stasis vault.

In the Of mars series his paper was framed and above a fireplace. (Although it was one of the newer ones, granted to him directly)


----------



## Androxine Vortex

I don't get how the C'tan are weak to psychic energies and hate the warp so much. They don't have any presence in the warp so why doesn't this make them like blanks?


----------



## locustgate

Androxine Vortex said:


> stuff


They are 4th dimensional beings, that exist in an extra dimension that is not the warp.


----------



## MidnightSun

forkmaster said:


> How is the Exalted from the Night Lords-trilogy described in appearence? How big is he? I'm thinking about doing the model and I want to be a thourough as possible!


Significantly bigger than a Marine, as far as I've gathered;

'_Talos regarded the vaguely humanoid shape as his sight resolved into an approximation of clarity. The Exalted wore the same relic armour so revered by the Atramentar_ (Terminator Armour) _but... changed. Warped. Literally. Occasional flickers of warp lighting rippled across the surface of the armour. The witchlight gave off no illumination of its own._'

'_The Exalted dragged itself closer to the table. A mild tremor shook through the chamber as the creature took a single step._'

'_A portrait of too many fangs and acidic drool. Talos glared into his lord's black eyes, and the twisted face of a man he'd once admired._'

'_The Exalted licked it's teeth. It still wore its armour for the most part, although the ceramite had long since become part of its altered flesh. The apothecarion was expansive, but the Exalted's nature forced it into an uncomfortable hunch to avoid scraping its horned helm across the ceiling... the Exalted stroked a taloned finger across a surgical table._'

'_Its lips peeled back from its shark's teeth in a grin in didn't feel_'

'_Metal wrenched in protesting chorus with the harsh words. The Exalted's monstrous talon deformed the wall where the creature gripped too hard. With a grunt, it pulled its claw free._'

'_The daemon heaved its exoskeletal bulk out of the throne, armour joints creaking_'

'_Vandred gestured to the hololithic, forcing himself not to be distracted by the clawed monstrosity that his right hand had become._'

That's all the description I can find from a skim through the books.


----------



## forkmaster

MidnightSun said:


> Significantly bigger than a Marine, as far as I've gathered;
> 
> '_Talos regarded the vaguely humanoid shape as his sight resolved into an approximation of clarity. The Exalted wore the same relic armour so revered by the Atramentar_ (Terminator Armour) _but... changed. Warped. Literally. Occasional flickers of warp lighting rippled across the surface of the armour. The witchlight gave off no illumination of its own._'
> 
> '_The Exalted dragged itself closer to the table. A mild tremor shook through the chamber as the creature took a single step._'
> 
> '_A portrait of too many fangs and acidic drool. Talos glared into his lord's black eyes, and the twisted face of a man he'd once admired._'
> 
> '_The Exalted licked it's teeth. It still wore its armour for the most part, although the ceramite had long since become part of its altered flesh. The apothecarion was expansive, but the Exalted's nature forced it into an uncomfortable hunch to avoid scraping its horned helm across the ceiling... the Exalted stroked a taloned finger across a surgical table._'
> 
> '_Its lips peeled back from its shark's teeth in a grin in didn't feel_'
> 
> '_Metal wrenched in protesting chorus with the harsh words. The Exalted's monstrous talon deformed the wall where the creature gripped too hard. With a grunt, it pulled its claw free._'
> 
> '_The daemon heaved its exoskeletal bulk out of the throne, armour joints creaking_'
> 
> '_Vandred gestured to the hololithic, forcing himself not to be distracted by the clawed monstrosity that his right hand had become._'
> 
> That's all the description I can find from a skim through the books.
> 
> Midnight


I thank you for the that answer!!


----------



## MidnightSun

forkmaster said:


> I thank you for the that answer!!


Just found this in Blood Reaver:

'_The Exalted inclined its tusked head in acknowledgement_'


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

forkmaster said:


> I thank you for the that answer!!


Agreed, a very good response. If it helps any he was apparently a devotee to Tzeentch


----------



## forkmaster

MidnightSun said:


> Just found this in Blood Reaver:
> 
> '_The Exalted inclined its tusked head in acknowledgement_'
> 
> Midnight


Thank you as well! 



Ddraig Cymry said:


> Agreed, a very good response. If it helps any he was apparently a devotee to Tzeentch


That I knew about, but thank you for enlightening me!


----------



## MidnightSun

He's a tusked, horned, black-eyed, black-tongued, many-toothed, shark-mouthed, exoskeletal, taloned, bladed, partially-ceramite, too-tall Tzeentch Possessed.


----------



## Emperorguard500

who is considered the most intelligent primarch? in terms of philosophy/science etc.


----------



## forkmaster

Emperorguard500 said:


> who is considered the most intelligent primarch? in terms of philosophy/science etc.


Magnus or Lorgar perhaps I would imagine.


----------



## MidnightSun

Magnus would be the most likely to win a general knowledge quiz, but the Primarchs all knew a lot about different things. Lion El'Jonson knew more about tactics than the others, Perturabo knew more about demolition/offensive siege warfare than the others, Curze understood the concept of fear better than the rest of them, Lorgar was the authority on religion etc. etc.


----------



## Emperorguard500

How often did an astartes (pre-heresy) see a primarch....was it a rare occasion that a noraml astartes would lay eyes on their primarch, or was it really the higher ups of the legion that got to interact with them

did the primarchs train with their legion or separately?


----------



## forkmaster

Have Necron Pariah's been retconned out of existence now a days?


----------



## Child-of-the-Emperor

Emperorguard500 said:


> How often did an astartes (pre-heresy) see a primarch....was it a rare occasion that a noraml astartes would lay eyes on their primarch, or was it really the higher ups of the legion that got to interact with them


Some Space Marines, obviously quite a lot - be they First Captains, Lord Commanders, retinues, bodyguards or any other attendants.

Others, very rarely. Shiban Khan in _Brotherhood of the Storm_, for example, recklessly abandons sensible combat doctrine whilst fighting on Chondax just to get to witness the Khagan in combat. 

Remember, the Legions (with 1 or 2 exceptions) were scattered throughout various Expeditionary Fleets and only rarely mustered as a single, coherent Legion. Thus some Space Marines, Captains or Battle-Groups may well have been absent from the central command of their Legion for decades.


----------



## forkmaster

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Some Space Marines, obviously quite a lot - be they First Captains, Lord Commanders, retinues, bodyguards or any other attendants.
> 
> Others, very rarely. Shiban Khan in _Brotherhood of the Storm_, for example, recklessly abandons sensible combat doctrine whilst fighting on Chondax just to get to witness the Khagan in combat.
> 
> Remember, the Legions (with 1 or 2 exceptions) were scattered throughout various Expeditionary Fleets and only rarely mustered as a single, coherent Legion. Thus some Space Marines, Captains or Battle-Groups may well have been absent from the central command of their Legion for decades.


Argel Tal went 40 years without seeing his Primarch for instance, and some World Eaters hadn't seen Angron for over 100.


----------



## MidnightSun

forkmaster said:


> Have Necron Pariah's been retconned out of existence now a days?


Yes. Pariahs still exist, but it's no longer part of a Necron scheme to immunize the galaxy to the Warp.


----------



## forkmaster

MidnightSun said:


> Yes. Pariahs still exist, but it's no longer part of a Necron scheme to immunize the galaxy to the Warp.


Ahh so they are a plan they abandoned? I see!


----------



## MidnightSun

Ah, not quite. I meant that the Pariahs are still in the fluff, but as far as I know they retconned them being humans that were unwittingly bearing a Necron-engineered gene causing them to be blanks.

The Necron Pariahs, the half-Necron half-human Pariahs, are completely retconned. Pariahs, blanks, are still in the fluff. They're just not Necrons anymore.


----------



## Serpion5

MidnightSun said:


> The Necron Pariahs, the half-Necron half-human Pariahs, are completely retconned. Pariahs, blanks, are still in the fluff. They're just not Necrons anymore.


Not necessarily, given that they still feature in a few Black Library novels like _Caves of Ice_. 

Interestingly enough, the necrons themselves have never been directly credited with engineering the pariah gene, but it is hinted (or was) that the c'tan had a part to play in its development, most notably the Deceiver. 

Best theory I can work out is a Deceiver shard going necron on humans with the right traits. 

Realistically it's probably a case of outdated fluff being nearly current, but the window is there for speculation regardless.


----------



## forkmaster

MidnightSun said:


> Ah, not quite. I meant that the Pariahs are still in the fluff, but as far as I know they retconned them being humans that were unwittingly bearing a Necron-engineered gene causing them to be blanks.
> 
> The Necron Pariahs, the half-Necron half-human Pariahs, are completely retconned. Pariahs, blanks, are still in the fluff. They're just not Necrons anymore.


Oh sorry, I should have been more specific as I meant the Necron Pariahs.


----------



## Moriouce

How old is the current Blood Angel dex?


----------



## Gret79

It came out april 2010.

Does anyone know what titans legions fought alongside the Night Lords and what colours they used?


----------



## Angel of Blood

Don't recall any mention of Titan Legions or any names of the Legios in any of the Heresy novels featuring the Night Lords or the Night Lord novels. The Night Lords feature in the forgeworld Betrayal book do they not? Might be something in there if anyone has it.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Spoiler alert
---





1) In _Know no Fear_, How was Kor Phaeron aware of Omegon? He mentions having two copies of Lorgars work for the Alpha Legion.

2) What were humans fighting in the DaoT to require all the machines we in WH40k: Thunderhawks, Rhinos, Land Cruisers, etc. Some of the machines just don't make sense for humans to have operated and to have used in war. And again, who were they fighting to have required such varied designs?

3) Who are the Ferrymen in _The Emperor's Gift_? At first I thought it was an Exorcist, being an Astartes with no soul, but then we see him lift a casket unarmored with ease that four Grey Knights struggled to carry together.

4) Since Grey Knights apparently can have aspirations, such as to further themselves up the political ladder like we see in the EG with that one Grey Knight who got killed by Grimnar, do you suppose the Exorcists are better at the role of daemon hunting? They have no souls so they cannot be possessed and due to a lack of a soul, they probably don't have the desire to prosper inherent in human souls. Grey Knights have souls and in the EG, Hyperion states that their immunity to corruption lies in their training more so than being imbued with the Emperor's DNA/essence.


----------



## MidnightSun

Malus Darkblade said:


> 1) In _Know no Fear_, How was Kor Phaeron aware of Omegon? He mentions having two copies of Lorgars work for the Alpha Legion.


I don't think he explicitly mentions Omegon, and could just be thinking that Alpharius would appreciate the two copies that are slightly different since that was Alpharius' schtick (and everyone knew that, even if they didn't know that he had a twin - the whole infiltration and manipulation gig was pretty famous as the Alpha Legion way of doing it).

But that's essentially baseless, and I'd be interested to see more light shed on it and on the rest of your questions, so I'll just bump this here.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

He doesn't explicitly mention Omegon you're right but it was so obvious that he knew of his existence.


----------



## Baron Spikey

Malus Darkblade said:


> Spoiler alert
> 2) What were humans fighting in the DaoT to require all the machines we in WH40k: Thunderhawks, Rhinos, Land Cruisers, etc. Some of the machines just don't make sense for humans to have operated and to have used in war. And again, who were they fighting to have required such varied designs?


Orks, Eldar, Hrud etc. A lot of the species that the Imperium faced during the Great Crusade, and in 40K, were encountered during the Dark Age of Technology. In fact one of the first major interspecies galactic wars involving humanity was against the Orks.
The machine designs were predicated on a list of conditions submitted to the STC database, which would come up with a blueprint for a vehicle(s) that would fulfill as many of those criteria as possible, the Rhino for example was a rugged civilian transport for frontier worlds before it became re-purposed as a useful Armoured Transport. 



Malus Darkblade said:


> 3) Who are the Ferrymen in _The Emperor's Gift_? At first I thought it was an Exorcist, being an Astartes with no soul, but then we see him lift a casket unarmored with ease that four Grey Knights struggled to carry together.


Whilst I can't comment on his great strength from all the descriptions given about him it would suggest he was a Pariah purposely recruited into the Grey Knights for specific roles.



Malus Darkblade said:


> 4) Since Grey Knights apparently can have aspirations, such as to further themselves up the political ladder like we see in the EG with that one Grey Knight who got killed by Grimnar, do you suppose the Exorcists are better at the role of daemon hunting? They have no souls so they cannot be possessed and due to a lack of a soul, they probably don't have the desire to prosper inherent in human souls. Grey Knights have souls and in the EG, Hyperion states that their immunity to corruption lies in their training more so than being imbued with the Emperor's DNA/essence.


Exorcists have souls, you're getting them confused with Pariahs*. And the inability to interact with the Universe as one with a 'soul' does doesn't mean they can be without ambition or flaws- case in point pretty much every other Pariah/Untouchable etc we read about in other novels- they have unique gifts, or curses depending on your perception, but are not any less corruptible in a moral sense than another human. The traditional 40K chaotic ways of corrupting someone will not work on them but the present day methods might (blackmail, bribery, extortion etc).

*Exorcists are a Chapter of Space Marines who have been purposely possessed by a daemon and then expulsed said entity with willpower and training- it makes them formidable daemon hunters but still not on the level of the GK.


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Baron Spikey said:


> Orks, Eldar, Hrud etc. A lot of the species that the Imperium faced during the Great Crusade, and in 40K, were encountered during the Dark Age of Technology. In fact one of the first major interspecies galactic wars involving humanity was against the Orks.
> The machine designs were predicated on a list of conditions submitted to the STC database, which would come up with a blueprint for a vehicle(s) that would fulfill as many of those criteria as possible, the Rhino for example was a rugged civilian transport for frontier worlds before it became re-purposed as a useful Armoured Transport.


True, some vehicles were reoutfitted to suit the WH40k landscape but I just can't picture augmented humans driving around in a Stormbird for example or firing bolters or miniature versions of them. 



Baron Spikey said:


> Exorcists have souls, you're getting them confused with Pariahs*. And the inability to interact with the Universe as one with a 'soul' does doesn't mean they can be without ambition or flaws- case in point pretty much every other Pariah/Untouchable etc we read about in other novels- they have unique gifts, or curses depending on your perception, but are not any less corruptible in a moral sense than another human. The traditional 40K chaotic ways of corrupting someone will not work on them but the present day methods might (blackmail, bribery, extortion etc).
> 
> *Exorcists are a Chapter of Space Marines who have been purposely possessed by a daemon and then expulsed said entity with willpower and training- it makes them formidable daemon hunters but still not on the level of the GK.


According to Steve Parker's Deathwatch, the Exorcists have no souls.

That's true, the bit about pariahs having ambitions, etc. I just assumed that coupled with their psycho-indoctrination, the Grey Knights would be above such things just like how they've eradicated their desire for lust.


----------



## locustgate

Do Imperial ships have infinite fuel, if not then what is it?


----------



## Malus Darkblade

Promethium and plasma


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## locustgate

Malus Darkblade said:


> Promethium and plasma


Where do they put the promethium in? On a side note, really promethium they use (space) gas/oline/petrol/whatever you call it for their space ships.


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## Malus Darkblade

From * Know no Fear *:

_
In the dark pits of drive rooms and engineering chambers, hosts of stokers and allworks slave away with furious effort. The chambers are infernal, soot-caked and lit by the ruddy glare of the vast engines and reactor furnaces. 

Armies of stokers, sweat-sheened and roaring, eyes like white stones in blackened faces, shovel fuel ores and promethium pellets into the iron chutes. Servitor crews, their metal skins colour-bruised like old kettles by the constant heat, lever and haul on the throbbing activator rods that quicken the drive plants. 

Coal-black chains swing. Bellows wheeze and flush dragon-breath balls of roiling fire up flues and vent pipes. 

Abhuman labourers, troll-like and grunting, swelter as they drag in monolithic payload carts of raw fuel from the silo decks_


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## locustgate

Malus Darkblade said:


> From * Know no Fear *:
> 
> _
> In the dark pits of drive rooms and engineering chambers, hosts of stokers and allworks slave away with furious effort. The chambers are infernal, soot-caked and lit by the ruddy glare of the vast engines and reactor furnaces.
> 
> Armies of stokers, sweat-sheened and roaring, eyes like white stones in blackened faces, shovel fuel ores and promethium pellets into the iron chutes. Servitor crews, their metal skins colour-bruised like old kettles by the constant heat, lever and haul on the throbbing activator rods that quicken the drive plants.
> 
> Coal-black chains swing. Bellows wheeze and flush dragon-breath balls of roiling fire up flues and vent pipes.
> 
> Abhuman labourers, troll-like and grunting, swelter as they drag in monolithic payload carts of raw fuel from the silo decks_


TY. So like a coal/steam ship.


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## Stormxlr

Anyone used a Thunderhawk?How is it competitively ? I ve been wanting to scratch build one for some time now, want to know if its worth the effort.
Do different chapters get different versions of a Thunderhawk?


----------



## forkmaster

Hello! So I was going to take on an easy question for you guys! I was listening to "Thief of revelation" and was wondering, what is the name of the Flesh-Changed Thousand Son who appears in the beginning that has a conversation with Ahriman? I have English only as a second language. Also could you guys give me a descriptive text on how he looks like? I'm going to make a model based upon him, hence the weird questions.


----------



## Braakbal

In _Void Stalker_, when Talos releases Septimus and Octavia, he tells them to hide from Variel because one night, he'll come for their child.

Why would he go through so much trouble for one infant? Does he think using a boy with navigator genes will make a better prophet ?


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## BlackGuard

To me, Talos was an anti-hero. He was what he was simply because he was. He stated several times that he hated the Eighth Legion and all it had become. Even in his tortures and murder sprees he never seemed to (in general) take as much joy in it as many of his other brothers did. 

Talos had a moment of sympathy, likely the nicest thing as CSM has done for a very long time, and told them to hide. He likely didn't really care about the child so much, but perhaps for Octavia and the other guy because they'd served him well and once Variel found them he wasn't going to let them live.

SPOILERS

Given the final passages in the book you can see that they didn't hide well enough.


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## kwak76

Why don't the eldar just make allot more babies to reproduce? I hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question but there numbers are consider small but why not just make allot more babies.


----------



## forkmaster

kwak76 said:


> Why don't the eldar just make allot more babies to reproduce? I hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question but there numbers are consider small but why not just make allot more babies.


It's a part of their culture as they need to be controlled at all times. Making babies isn't as easy as last time they were screwing around thye birthed a Chaos God. So they are pretty limited in that making and more are dying than being birthed as they all belong to Slaanesh.


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## Brobaddon

It's a long process from what I recall. Father needs to constantly add genetical material to the embrio or something along that line. In short, the female eldar receives a jizz overload.


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## kwak76

Which race has the most advance technology? From what I read it is the eldars? But how does that stack up to human during the dark age STC technology? or necrons ? tau? 

So in order does is it eldars, necrons , human and tau that has the best technology?


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## locustgate

kwak76 said:


> Which race has the most advance technology? From what I read it is the eldars? But how does that stack up to human during the dark age STC technology? or necrons ? tau?
> 
> So in order does is it eldars, necrons , human and tau that has the best technology?


Necrons, pure tech, Eldar, tech with high psy tech, human med tech low psy tech, tau med no psy tech, but this is all debatable other than crons higher than eldar who have higher than human.


What is the name of the orthodox imperial 'bible'?


----------



## Malus Darkblade

How was Bequin able to become a 'pleasure girl' given her Pariah state? /showerthoughts


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## locustgate

Malus Darkblade said:


> How was Bequin able to become a 'pleasure girl' given her Pariah state? /showerthoughts


Never really said. She was rather attractive and may of been rather skilled.


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## Malus Darkblade

locustgate said:


> Never really said. She was rather attractive and may of been rather skilled.


That's not the point. Pariah's repel anything living. 

From the recent Data Slate: Offficio Assassinorium
-

_The very presence of a Pariah makes those around them feel fearful and increasingly paranoid, as an all-pervading sense of wrongness causes skin to crawl and senses to rebel. Some may complain of excruciating head-pains, or steadily increasing levels of directionless panic, their hearts hammering and their breath coming in ragged gasps. 

For a psyker, this sensation is infinitely worse, manifesting as horrified panic attacks, seizures, and a monstrous sensation of being smothered or drowned. Such horrible phenomena make Pariahs outcasts among human society_

There is no way she could have been in a profession that requires such intimate physical contact for even a nanosecond.


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## locustgate

Malus Darkblade said:


> That's not the point. Pariah's repel anything living.
> 
> From the recent Data Slate: Offficio Assassinorium
> -
> 
> _The very presence of a Pariah makes those around them feel fearful and increasingly paranoid, as an all-pervading sense of wrongness causes skin to crawl and senses to rebel. Some may complain of excruciating head-pains, or steadily increasing levels of directionless panic, their hearts hammering and their breath coming in ragged gasps.
> 
> For a psyker, this sensation is infinitely worse, manifesting as horrified panic attacks, seizures, and a monstrous sensation of being smothered or drowned. Such horrible phenomena make Pariahs outcasts among human society_
> 
> There is no way she could have been in a profession that requires such intimate physical contact for even a nanosecond.


Their degrees vary, Fraka (?) was described as a bad smell. Bequin seemed to just make people irritated to just be around her, especially with Eisenhorn, a psyker, mentioned he wanted to slap her when she started to cry after being told she was a freak(pariah), though he did mention he loved her but couldn't even stand to touch her. The series was written before that with the oldcrons.

The excerpt said an 'increasing' feeling of paranoid, so I would imagine her job is mostly bang and get the fuck out. Seriously who wants a hooker to stick around.


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## forkmaster

As earlier said, she seems to be on the low scale of the Pariah-gene-pool (just as there are stronger and weaker types of psykers) as her nullingfying effect is very little compared to other stories with other characters. She also shows to have a wide personality where Pariahs now a days are more described to be like someone with Aspergers. Think of Sheldon Cooper in his earliest stages who has trouble interacting with other humans. I would say its a product of its time as the fluff has change much since then. Its a small piece one can ignore and look past.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor

Malus Darkblade said:


> How was Bequin able to become a 'pleasure girl' given her Pariah state? /showerthoughts





Malus Darkblade said:


> _The very presence of a Pariah makes those around them feel fearful and increasingly paranoid, as an all-pervading sense of wrongness causes skin to crawl and senses to rebel. Some may complain of excruciating head-pains, or steadily increasing levels of directionless panic, their hearts hammering and their breath coming in ragged gasps.
> 
> There is no way she could have been in a profession that requires such intimate physical contact for even a nanosecond._


_

Drugs? :laugh:_


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## Malus Darkblade

What do you mean?


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## kwak76

Not sure if this question has been answered tried the search function but had trouble finding the answer. 

What happens if a space marine who is alive gives up his gene seed? For example he knows he might die in battle or might get captured by chaos space marines so he gives it up to protect the gene seed. 

Does space marine suffer some consequence later on?


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## Vaz

I do not believe that's an option - the geneseed is what allows the body to function properly as a space marine. It has never otherwise been made notice of during official fluff as far as I'm aware, and all mention of it literally involves the carving open of the marines chest to get to it.


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## kwak76

Vaz,

I was reading the "legion of the Damned ", novel by Rod Sanders.

In the book the space marine chapter Excoriators gave up their gene seed because they knew they didn't stand the chance fighting against chaos forces. They gave the gene seed to their apothecary to take back to their home base . 

So I'm confused can this work? Unless it's mistake in fluff.


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## Vaz

Inevitable mistake in fluff. Its rob sanders.

And it is also legion of the damned, anything fucking goes when it comes to them.


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## Malus Darkblade

Probably just the backup ones in their neck?


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## forkmaster

kwak76 said:


> Not sure if this question has been answered tried the search function but had trouble finding the answer.
> 
> What happens if a space marine who is alive gives up his gene seed? For example he knows he might die in battle or might get captured by chaos space marines so he gives it up to protect the gene seed.
> 
> Does space marine suffer some consequence later on?


It also happened in _The Gildar's Rift_ and as I'm aware the Space Marines can survive the procedure but they are left in shame because of it. Or at least that particular Silver Skull was.


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## El_Lobo

Are there any maps of Terra during the unification wars? I'm reading a really great homebrew fluff piece over on B&C and it has me curious what the planet looked like at that time.


----------



## Moriouce

I thought the 13th Black Crusade had not occured since it was reconned? But the latest Ork Codex mention "forces from Abaddon's thirteenth black crusade" in the Cadian gate. Confused!


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## Stephen_Newman

Moriouce said:


> I thought the 13th Black Crusade had not occured since it was reconned? But the latest Ork Codex mention "forces from Abaddon's thirteenth black crusade" in the Cadian gate. Confused!


You are correct in stating that the 13th Black Crusade has been retconned however I believe the codecies (and the literature) are written as if Abaddon has just struck out of the Eye of Terror in the closing moments of the 41st millenium. Hope that helps.





I do have a question from myself. Is there a map anywhere that showcases most of the Imperium planets and their names? I'm trying to build an Inquisitor Warband and I am writing ackstory and was looking at existing planets for inspiration.


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## Khorne's Fist

There are too many planets for something that specific. There is the map of the galaxy in the 6th ed rule book, which shows all the segmentums, sectors and subsectors AFAIR. it also shows a few notable planets, like Cadia, Fenris, Macragge and Armageddon, but there are thousands of planets in hundreds of solar systems.


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## DelvarusThePitFighter

Will Delvarus of the triarii get a model from FW?


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## Angel of Blood

Probably, will be priced at around £150 at the rate they are increasing their prices. 

(This question is more for the general 40k forum btw, no worries though)


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## Brother Emund

I went onto the BL site for HH books. There are numerous EBooks but no paperbacks. Do the EBooks add anything to the HH saga? Are they worth getting?


.


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## Khorne's Fist

Brother Emund said:


> Do the EBooks add anything to the HH saga? Are they worth getting?


Do you mean the quick reads? If so they are nice to read rather than need to read. They fill in some of the gaps between full novels, but there's nothing in there worth paying for.


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## forkmaster

Brother Emund said:


> I went onto the BL site for HH books. There are numerous EBooks but no paperbacks. Do the EBooks add anything to the HH saga? Are they worth getting?
> 
> 
> .


Stick to the dead tree-format. All stories, even the less necessary e-shorts, will appear in them sooner or later. _Legacies of Betrayal_ is a good proof of that.


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## Brother Emund

forkmaster said:


> Stick to the dead tree-format. All stories, even the less necessary e-shorts, will appear in them sooner or later. _Legacies of Betrayal_ is a good proof of that.


Cheers! :victory:




.


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## KINKYWULFEN

Ok so I've got a few questions. 
1.is fielding a mainly stolen armor army that rare? Most of my army is random armor bits that fluff wise my guys just found and repaired and don't care what's on it. All they do to change it is scratch out markings and paint over it. 
2.i get it that different chaos war bands hate eachother but why won't more join abandon in a crusade? Like I know it will end the story line but come on are they that dumb? They have primarchs still when the closest loyalists have is a big smurf in a coma, a werewolf that ran off doing whatever he does and a Asian that's disappeared. Oh and I almost forgot about the regenerating missing dragon guy and the vampire from twilight that said he would be reborn. 
3.when the hell is the wolfen times? 
4.not a question but just stating that on number 2 some info is wrong but I don't have time to look all of it up.


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## Angel of Blood

KINKYWULFEN said:


> Ok so I've got a few questions.
> 1.is fielding a mainly stolen armor army that rare? Most of my army is random armor bits that fluff wise my guys just found and repaired and don't care what's on it. All they do to change it is scratch out markings and paint over it.
> 2.i get it that different chaos war bands hate eachother but why won't more join abandon in a crusade? Like I know it will end the story line but come on are they that dumb? They have primarchs still when the closest loyalists have is a big smurf in a coma, a werewolf that ran off doing whatever he does and a Asian that's disappeared. Oh and I almost forgot about the regenerating missing dragon guy and the vampire from twilight that said he would be reborn.
> 3.when the hell is the wolfen times?
> 4.not a question but just stating that on number 2 some info is wrong but I don't have time to look all of it up.


1. Is this for Imperials or chaos? Because as far as chaos go, that is exactly what they do, the Night Lords series show them doing this quite a bit. If Imperials, you could easily make up a fluff reason, such as their fortress monastery was destroyed or is just completely cut off from any nearby Ad Mech support, that the chapter is on a penance crusade for something they did and have had all support from foundries or the Mechanicum cut off until the penance is over. Stuff like that.

2. Some just don't want to. A lot of them just don't care about the Imperium anymore, they have actually got over it and are far too concerned with fighting current grudges against other warbands in the Eye. Also just wanting to consolidate their own power, some have made worlds their own or become independent brokers and hubs for other warbands, and again have no interest in going to potentially die at the hands of the Imperium, as powerful as they would be united, many would die, and the current state of Chaos marines is very much selfish, self-serving, ambitious and with a high level of self preservation in a lot of cases, they just aren't like the loyalists they used to be or the Imperials, ready to lay down their lives without hesitation. And of course many, like the Primarchs are just playing the Great Game now. That being said. Abaddon has secured the service of all the remaining traitor Primarchs for the 13th Black Crusade, which is going to be the most devastating one yet and will in all likelihood end the Imperium or cripple it so badly that it can never recover. Though that is of course prime time for the missing loyalist Primarchs to return.

3. The Wolf Time. There is no set time, it's the end time, the final moments of the Imperium. As above, that could well be the 13th Black Crusade. It implies that even if Russ intends to return for that, it will be the end regardless. The Lion will also likely be released by the Watchers then, as they are holding him until he's needed most. Cue the Lion and the Wolf King entering Commorragh (where I think he is anyway) to jailbreak the Khan out. Have Vulkan and Corax come out of hiding, have some bullshit deus ex machina to resurrect Guilliman, have Dorn(sans hands(and I still says he's dead anyway)) magically appear and we got some big heavy hitters arrayed against Chaos. Sanguinius is proper fucked though. Won't see him, unless of course James Swallow gets to write stuff for it, in which case the Sanguinor will probably become Sanguinius himself once the others return. This is all moot though as G-Dubs will never write the end times for 40k.


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## KINKYWULFEN

See that's the thing the loyalists have so much they could do but they don't. I'm chaos myself and I love what we do single but we fight ourselves so much. Just as in the ultra marines books it shows us just waiting time and resources in the eye. (Also I learned don't google something up until you finish the books cuz I didn't know what happened to the unfleshed then I ruined it for myself :,|) Also when will the 13th space wolves company come back into play? I fell in love when reading the space wolves books but then sadly that's the last I've heard of them. Are they meant to come back with Russ in the wolf time, because Russ coming back with the missing 13th company would be awesome. (Imagine Russ and all the old warriors and werewolves meeting back up with bjorn.)


----------



## Angel of Blood

KINKYWULFEN said:


> See that's the thing the loyalists have so much they could do but they don't. I'm chaos myself and I love what we do single but we fight ourselves so much. Just as in the ultra marines books it shows us just waiting time and resources in the eye. (Also I learned don't google something up until you finish the books cuz I didn't know what happened to the unfleshed then I ruined it for myself :,|) Also when will the 13th space wolves company come back into play? I fell in love when reading the space wolves books but then sadly that's the last I've heard of them. Are they meant to come back with Russ in the wolf time, because Russ coming back with the missing 13th company would be awesome. (Imagine Russ and all the old warriors and werewolves meeting back up with bjorn.)


The 13th Company came back in the Eye of Terror campaign about...10 years ago? A lot of their number had become wulfen and the Rune Priests were pretty powerful, but their armour was clobbered together from chaos marines as well if I recall correctly. The whole campaign and all the fluff with it was retconned however, so as of the current canon, they're still unaccounted for. Potentially with Russ, but who knows.


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## KINKYWULFEN

Like imagin bjorn and Russ with the rest of the still slightly non werewolf space wolves coming back together to tell stories of old. Like I can see it and to be honest the space wolves always brought a smile to my face and a lot of it was due to Hagar wolfblade.


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## Moriouce

How large Transport Capacity does an ork Battle Fortress have?
Is it an Assult Vehicle? 
Where is it's Access Point?


----------



## Moriouce

Can anyone identify this model? 
http://www.tradera.com/item/341005/245102258/warhammer-blandad-lada-med-bitz
The one primed black on the big rectangual base at the bottom.


----------



## Kruphix chaos ctan

where do i put a custom codex for an entirely new army (not a chapter or dynasty thing)?


----------



## Wulf

Figured this would be a good place for this question. Is it correct to assume hat there are 'secular' people in the 40k setting? I mean like they don't actively worship the Emperor, but they don't deny him either. Or they're not Chaos, but they don't really care much about the Emperor either? I'm hoping that makes more sense than it sounds.


----------



## Fallen

Yes, there are.

Also these guys.

Besides those if your a human and you live in the Imperium and it comes to light that you do not believe in the God-Emperor, savior of Mankind, you get introduced to Mr. Bolter real quick.

Or your a Xeno and deserve to die.

----

In short "no".

The Imperium is perhaps the WORST place to live in, there are a lot of similarities between it and every vile dictatorship, religion, politician and what not. There is no such thing as liberty, free speech, free choice, etc.


----------



## Wulf

Makes senes, it was just something that cropped up from time to time in the back of my mind and figured it couldn't hurt to just ask. Though now I'm interested in the Gue'vesa.


----------



## forkmaster

Wulf said:


> Figured this would be a good place for this question. Is it correct to assume hat there are 'secular' people in the 40k setting? I mean like they don't actively worship the Emperor, but they don't deny him either. Or they're not Chaos, but they don't really care much about the Emperor either? I'm hoping that makes more sense than it sounds.


I imagine there is always those kinds of people (but most often fall into the clutches of Chaos).


----------



## Brother Emund

I imagine that on far-flung outposts where there is not much input from the Imperium, the Emperor is sort of forgotten about as there are other things on their minds. Food, drink, staying alive etc...

.


----------



## Kharn The Complainer

ThatOtherGuy said:


> How strong and tough is power armor? I keep hearing stories that it can shrug off a ton of crap, making it look indestructible, but then I hear that a f-ing shuriken pistol can punch a hole in it.


Power armour is strong enough to stop everything except shuriken pistol shots. This is because Eldar are majik!


----------



## Moriouce

Can anyone identify these three miniatures?? 

Thanks!


----------



## Khorne's Fist

The one on the right is an old Rogue Trader IG mini I think, but I'm fairly sure the other two are not GW minis.


----------



## Kharn The Complainer

The middle one looks like a Pokemon


----------



## Brother Emund

*Navy Commissars?*

I am doing a short story in Original Works (everyone should have a look at this section in Heresy). It involves a Navy ship, well actually a Battlebarge to be more precise. Putting aside any Chaplains that may be on the command deck, (let's say that they have the day off), and the fact that the personnel are Navy and not Guard etc. (who have Commissars to keep the faith), who watches over the Navy?
Who are the dedicated servants who keep watch over the weak and administer the Emperor's grace if the need should arrive?


.


----------



## SwedeMarine

@Brother Emund Im fairly certain they would have someone from either the commissariat or the inquisition to do that role. Failing that you might be able to get away with someone from the Ecclesiarchy. If you're doing a short story though i wouldn't worry too much about accuracy on this.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Yeah, I'm fairly sure they have commissars as well. I think it's in one of the Coaphus Cain novels that it's mentioned that one of his classmates had served a considerable stint in the navy.


----------



## darkreever

Brother Emund said:


> It involves a Navy ship, well actually a Battlebarge to be more precise.


Battlebarges are ships used by Space Marine chapters, the Imperial Navy does not have or use them.



Brother Emund said:


> who watches over the Navy?


The commissariat is a special branch of the Departmento Munitorum who are responsible for enforcing discipline and devotion within the ranks of both the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy (in addition to the Planetary Defense Force.)


----------



## Brother Emund

darkreever said:


> Battlebarges are ships used by Space Marine chapters, the Imperial Navy does not have or use them.
> 
> 
> The commissariat is a special branch of the Departmento Munitorum who are responsible for enforcing discipline and devotion within the ranks of both the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy (in addition to the Planetary Defense Force.)


Thanks. I dropped the Navy part and made them Chapter Auxiliaries. Then I brought the Chaplain back from his break to administer justice!

.


----------

