# What about raptors?



## Derpology (Apr 3, 2009)

In alot of the threads abotu Csm's i've read.. hardley anyone advises getting raptors? Any particular downfall or just.. i dunno.

Replies appreciated!


----------



## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

I would say there are three reasons that you do not see much of these guys:

-Since the basic CSM has a pistol and ccw already, these close combat specialists lose some of their value (though of course the jump pack is still worth something)
-A bit too costly in points. 
-Expensive metal models

That being said, I do find them useful to a certain degree. I probably have had the best luck using small squads to tie up ranged specialists like scouts w/ snipers, pathfinders, devastators etc.


----------



## stooge92 (Mar 6, 2008)

people may also be drawn towards bezerkers for their cc troops, and start them in a rhino as a 'jump-pack' replacement- as they rip up in cc

there is also possessed who can ( i suppose ) be kind of appealing- reinforcing the point above- raptors are expensive, and metal (grrrrr hate metal models) and pretty pointsy aswell (when you can just take bezerkers who are as good, if not better, in cc)


----------



## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Give 'em a couple of Meltaguns, go tank hunting!

Or you could give them the Mark of Khorne, give the champ a pair of lightning claws and go tear someone's face in. 

They are pretty expensive however but worth the points for the mobility - especially when the rest of your army is mechanised.


----------



## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

They are not a bad unit at all, it's just there are other units in the codex that can play a similar role just as well, if not better, as others have mentioned, if you are looking for a close combat unit berzerkers in a rhino might be a better option.


----------



## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I think that raptors have two principle problems on top of those mentioned already. First up, cult troops are fantastic, and are troops. Second, Raptors can't match the CC power of zerkers or the survivability of plague marines.

As a consequence you have to make a choice between a unit that is slightly faster or a unit that gets the job done better when it arrives, and claims objectives.

Some people use raptors as a place to put melta guns or sorcerors, though others use bikes for the same job. On the whole though, daemon princes are favoured and don't need a unit to go with.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Yeah, for me too, the fact they aren't scoring is the real kicker. Non-scoring units have to either get more KPs than they give up, or just be really survivable...and you can't rely on Raptors for either.


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I for one have thought that Raptors were fantastic since the new Codex came out. They're very cheap for jump infantry, have the usual solid statline and access to Icons, which can make them absolutely brutal in close combat (Khorne is my personal favorite, especially with a Lash Sorcerer accompanying them). Their biggest downfall is that the models are ugly as sin.


----------



## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

You can get plastic jump packs from the bitz order service, recently added, and glue them onto plastic zerkers. Instant MoK raptors.


----------



## Corax_aus (Apr 8, 2009)

I like them, the One person i used to play with who fielded them would use them and they would rip the heart out of any thing slower than them.

Although the glass hammer aspect of them was brutally shown when he got charged by wyches.. He took out aload of DE warriors, only to get murdered by wyches on the charge..


----------



## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Someguy said:


> You can get plastic jump packs from the bitz order service, recently added, and glue them onto plastic zerkers. Instant MoK raptors.


That can work, though I think I'd want the Assault Marine running legs too... not a fan of the old 'Zerker ones.


----------



## Mud213 (Nov 20, 2008)

Katie Drake said:


> Their biggest downfall is that the models are ugly as sin.


That is so sad. :cray: That is one of the reason I keep thinking about getting them. The "raptor" feet are a nice touch. You can almost hear how noisy those jump packs would be. Also, those helmets are much different than the normal ones and it's nice to see a variety of heads out there besides the same old horny ones.


----------



## Derpology (Apr 3, 2009)

An alternative to the "looks, expense and metal figures" problem would be to buy assault marines and convert them?.. Jeeza you guys.


----------



## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

Am I the only one who actually likes the raptor models?

I've not got round to using them in a game yet, as I always tend towards a 10 man squad of noise marines w/sonic weapons in a rhino instead.

The one use I have thought of for them which could be quite sweet is to arm them with a couple of meltaguns & and icon, then use them to bomb a pile of demons onto an objective before going tank hunting 

CC squads of them work, but even with the MoK, they don't quite match upto 'zerkers.


----------



## Kevko (Oct 9, 2008)

I only use them to tie up enemy units until my main force can be brought to bear.

Jumping them into a squad of SM Devastors prevents the devastators from taking pot shots at the rest of my army while they're running across the table to get into range.

If they're lucky they might actually kill stuff :biggrin:


----------



## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

I dont like the metal models...for my raptors i just bought a box of 10csm and equal amount of sm assault marines and switched parts around! For the mark i just walloped it on the bacj of a guys jump pack.


----------



## Sacrean (Apr 9, 2009)

I was just about to put a post like this up asking how they fared but seeing as how there is one already then I will just say a thank you to everyone who has replied already. I think I will get some to give them a try though. I have been playing 40K Dawn of war 2 and I love the jump packs. I know that they dont do dmg when they land but just seeing it in game makes me kinda giddy. I am also thinking about dropping my 10 man unit is CSM for some zerkers. I will rewrite out an army list and place it in the CSM section of army lists. please give me all the input you want on the list. Would you like to go against it , what weaknesses there are. All your help is apprieciated Thanks again Heretics.:goodpost:


----------



## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

Put me in the "likes the way they look" category as well.


----------



## HighHubris (Mar 16, 2009)

Critta said:


> Am I the only one who actually likes the raptor models?
> 
> I've not got round to using them in a game yet, as I always tend towards a 10 man squad of noise marines w/sonic weapons in a rhino instead.
> 
> ...


nope, I <3 them too. i look at the box at the store and am tempted to buy them every single time. the only reason i don't is cause they're $45 for 5. it's terminator pricing. more than likely i'll just buy them if i ever hear they're changing the way they look as their are the only models that i actually like without even touching. and i don't even play chaos.


----------



## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

I love the models too. The predatory look is waaaay cooler than the assault marines... unfortunately, they're sooo top-heavy your paint is bound to chip as they fall over everytime someone bumps your table....

Of course, I have a squad of 6 raptors c/w champ w/ LC & 2 meltaguns... they just never seem to make their points back... I charge them into a *imperial guard* heavy weapons team & they're in combat for two or three FULL turns without wiping the squad...


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

As my CSM army is night lords, i use Raptors.

key things to remember:
-Use in big units, 7 - 10 please. Anything less doesnt have much of an impact.
-Marks are ideal, as whatever benefit they add can further their table top impact.
-Champions with Powerfist/lightning claws are also pretty much a must.

they always come out costly, usually the same for a squad of Zerkers, which although most will go for, i find raptors usually get a half-arsed attempt at destroying them, as everyone hears about how 'crap' they are compared to Zerkers or Plague marines etc


----------



## Pandorav3 (Jan 30, 2009)

I dont really like the raptors for one main reason, as a member mentioned previously they are very top heavy. I used to field them for a while but after seeing them topple over over nothing, and eventually just fielding them on their sides, I had enough. Of course taking a look back I realized there's alot better out there.


----------



## Mud213 (Nov 20, 2008)

Well to solve the top-heavy issue, one of my friends starting just gluing heavy washers to the bottoms. There is space there so you might as well. You don't have to complain, just make it more stable.


----------



## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

I've done that - with the heaviest washers I can fit. In fact, to get a heavier washer my raptors actually stand about 1/8" taller than they're supposed to...

Oh yeah & I guess the other problem with Raptors is that with TLOS they're an extra 1" taller than most infantry - that trench that covers your space marine up to his shoulder? Yeah, my raptor's foot is the only part covered - therefore no cover save...


----------



## HighHubris (Mar 16, 2009)

you can buy metal bases from some game company... can't remember what it is


----------



## CamTheApostle (Oct 31, 2008)

Orochi said:


> As my CSM army is night lords, i use Raptors.
> 
> key things to remember:
> -Use in big units, 7 - 10 please. Anything less doesnt have much of an impact.
> ...


After purchasing some 20 jump packs (long before this post appeared), I magnetized them so that I could exchange them with my CSM backpacks whenever I so desired (thus allowing me to field either CSM or Raptors). So far, I have never been disappointed with their use.

Orochi's recommendations are pretty much my own. Larger units are better (in fact, units larger then 10 are great too), and special weapons are a must. I recommend either Meltas or Flamers. I use mine as tank hunters, so meltas are a must. Marks maximize their ability. I favor the MoS, as it gives me that I edge against MEqs. 

The idea of comparing raptors to cult troops seems silly to me. Cult troops (as well as regular CSMs) are meant to be your bread and butter. They are meant for grunt work, such as holding and taking objectives. Raptors are assault troops, meant to be flexible harassment forces. You don't use Raptors to smash your opponent's main lines, you use them to destroy his specialized squads or outflank him. They also work well at taking out or slowing down flanking units.

I like using my raptors to, in the first turn, charge forward and blast enemy heavy vehicles with their meltas. While it doesn't always work (as I am usually at max range), I have a tendency to take out at least a hundred points worth of killing power in a single stroke. This obviously works best in smaller games, where the opponent has a smaller force to counter-attack with.


----------



## eskeoto (Mar 10, 2009)

I know this is probably not the most correct way to use them, but I basically use them as a cushion. I usually run a squad of 7 or more (depending on the game points) never more then 12. I give them a mark of nurgle(I know, I'll have to answer to Papa Nurgle when I'm finally beaten) for survivability and leave them bare otherwise. Then I just use them to lock up a unit with a high amount of fire power that might otherwise pop my rhinos or heavy support. They really do have a horrible survivability rate though. Unless you have cheater dice, expect to lose the whole squad every game. That's just my two cents. Oh, and I don't use cheater dice... they die every time


Oh, and you can convert Regular Jump pack marines into raptors. Ta-Da! No annoying metal, and if you like to convert stuff you might have a decent amount of fun doing it too.


----------



## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I almost started a new thread on these guys, but luckily I looked around first... very educational stuff written here...

I believe that one potential use was not discussed yet, however. If I'm not mistaken, Icons can be used as beacons for Deep Striking stuff in (by the way, can you Deep Strike Dreadnoughts? Just out of curiosity). If you get 5 raptors with an IoCG, you could quickly move around to the enemy's sensitive spot and call in the backup you happen to have (like some Khornate Termies+Champ+Chaos Lord geared for CC, just to mention something), then go and harass the enemy with them. The main reason this idea seems good to me is that its far cheaper than a Land Raider and more manuverable. Also, the opponent will most likely disregard your Raptors in favour of more obvious threats, due to most people considering them completely useless (in comparison with everything else you could spend your points on). Thirdly, it saves you the trouble of your backup scattering when they arrive.

What do you think?


----------



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Someguy said:


> You can get plastic jump packs from the bitz order service, recently added, and glue them onto plastic zerkers. Instant MoK raptors.



That is the coolest Idea for Raptors in my World Eater Army :grin: Im going to do that. Thanks for the Idea.


----------



## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

iv been taking a squad of 5 raptors with the mark of khorne for the last 3 games iv played and have to say they are golden, 

in the first two games they held there own against a archon and incubi retinue and in the second flamed three squads of de before finishing with a quick killing blow assult.

last game against our store manager with chrimson fists they supported the DP and took down somthing near 15-20 marines and only ended up losing to pedro kantor with a power fist, hardly suprising and it took him 2 turns to do it (3 assault phases).

5 raptors throwing 20 attacks on the charge is a lot for a 135 point squad, they may die every game but damn do they take stuff with them when they do.


----------



## knighthawke70 (Sep 9, 2008)

bishop5 said:


> Give 'em a couple of Meltaguns, go tank hunting!
> 
> Or you could give them the Mark of Khorne, give the champ a pair of lightning claws and go tear someone's face in.
> 
> They are pretty expensive however but worth the points for the mobility - especially when the rest of your army is mechanised.


i have 12 of them (w/ plasma pistols in stead of meltas) which i just tore the hell out of IG vets. yes i know its IG, the the carnage was beautiful:grin:


----------



## Crimson_Chin (Feb 20, 2009)

My brother throws a squad of 5 around, no mark, 2 meltaguns. He used to keep an icon on them, but eventually stopped wasting the points as I just made sure I boned the raptors first. Now they're a quick, dangerous annoyance that are actually quite hard to avoid. Suicide squad to kill LR and the like.

They're not bad as quick tankhunters if you can play that game. The problem I see with them being a delivery system is that they get targetted B/C of the icon, and when they die that plan is over. I could absolutely see them being a great mobile icon though, if you had 10 of them. Enough to not get killed in one plascannon blast.


----------



## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

> You can get plastic jump packs from the bitz order service, recently added, and glue them onto plastic zerkers. Instant MoK raptors.


I've got 2 squads of five with 2 x MG in a shooty CSM army. I used the beserker bodies, heads from the mutations sprue and the old metal raptor backpack with the tattered skin effect. If you search for "prophanos" in the project forum you'll see how they turned out. Gives me some much needed mobility and a couple of tank hunting squads if required.

Because they are small squads they need looking after though. One turns inattention and they tend to dissapear.


----------



## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

I would just convert them from a CSM box or Khorne Beserker box and from SM Assault Marines jump packs add some chains and your done or even cut and make the pack more jagged.


----------

