# 6th edition Necrons



## zigy

Reading all the rumors around 6th edition changes and playing Necrons I try to see what is good and what is bad for my precious Necrons.

I'd like from all of you to write what you think. Where do you see we gained something, gained less than others and lost advantage, maybe even new combos or similar.
I know is hard to tell before release of rule book but from rumors for now and later from book we could discuss this.

For example:
Rapid fire - move and shoot - good for gauss :so_happy: but phaeron lost some
Psychic powers - we got none :cray: (except if we are immune, than OK i guess)

I think this is a good place for this kind of topic, else state where should I put it.

Thanks all


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## Archon Dan

Hmm. 
-Preffered Enemy affecting shooting would be nice for Destroyers. 
-Random charge lengths could keep us from being assaulted, but could keep our precious few assault units stranded to be shot(only really bad for Scarabs or Praetorians).
-Rapid fire will be nice.
-We avoid the Psyker shake-up that could see some armies weakened but any army that becomes stronger may force us to get multiple Gloom Prisms.
-From the rumor on Hull Points, it sounds like our vehicles are still some of the toughest around. But hull points could also weaken Scarabs and Gauss.
-Lastly, charge reaction sounds okay. It may be BS1, but Tesla Immortals will kick some butt.


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## MidnightSun

If the rumour of Gauss weapons flaying Structure Points on a successful damage result (any roll of six to pen), then they'll be the most anti-vehicle force you can imagine.

Midnight


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## zigy

Hmmm ... Deathmarks with rapid fire will make some sense now


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## The Sturk

Gloom Prisms will now see a lot of use I imagine.

Dispersion Shields make a lot more sense if units are able to Overwatch before the charge (reflecting that Melta shot back at them as you charge).

Rumor has it that Relentless (Phaeron) will grant an extra attack within 12 inches (so 3 shots)

Units inside Flying Transports (Stormravens, etc) take a Str 10 hit with no saves allowed if it wrecks. This makes the Nightscythe's rule alot more useful and not much of a hinderance.

If our "lowly" Ghost Ark has 4 Hull points (same as a Land Raider)...then how many will the Monolith have?!

Not noted anywhere but I have a sinking feeling that Warscythes will be an AP1 weapon, or at least AP2.

Deathmarks can pick their target on a to-hit of a 6. Plus they can strike from 24 inches after the DS. Still might be useful to DS within 6 inches if with a Despair Cryptek.

@Archon Dan: I hear that Beasts get 3D6 charge, so Scarabs might have some luck. I'm willing to bet that Praetorians get some buff as well.


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## Archon Dan

With no invul saves, Praetorians are screwed if the Plasma Rifle or Meltagun gets lucky in the charge reaction. But as a counter-charge unit with an AP 2 weapon. Could be nasty, again with luck. The leaked rules are just sparking more speculation at the moment. We will have to play to know for sure how things work.


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## The Sturk

Archon Dan said:


> With no invul saves, Praetorians are screwed if the Plasma Rifle or Meltagun gets lucky in the charge reaction. But as a counter-charge unit with an AP 2 weapon. Could be nasty, again with luck. The leaked rules are just sparking more speculation at the moment. We will have to play to know for sure how things work.


The question then comes to this: Does Overwatch count as a separate phase? If so (unlikely), then that dead Praetorian could stand up again for the assault. But as you said, this is just creating speculation currently. We'll find out in a week.

Gonna throw a question out there. What armies do you think Necrons will be allowed to Ally with? In my eyes, I can see all armies being acceptable except Eldar, Dark Eldar, Chaos (either one) and Tyranids (and maaaaybe Orks).


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## darklove

Warscythes do not allow armour saves, but are not power weapons. They have their own codex based rules.


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## Archon Dan

The Sturk said:


> The question then comes to this: Does Overwatch count as a separate phase? If so (unlikely), then that dead Praetorian could stand up again for the assault. But as you said, this is just creating speculation currently. We'll find out in a week.
> 
> Gonna throw a question out there. What armies do you think Necrons will be allowed to Ally with? In my eyes, I can see all armies being acceptable except Eldar, Dark Eldar, Chaos (either one) and Tyranids (and maaaaybe Orks).



It's not likely to be a seperate phase. I'm interested to try the new flyer rules with the Night/Doom Scythes. It should be quite fun, considering I lost the Doom Scythe to assaulting Thunderwolf Calvary once. But that can't happen now!

I would say that Necron, Tyranid, Dark Eldar and Space Marines(any type) will be the most limited in what they can ally with. But with varying levels of trust, you might still be able to get some allies from an unexpected place. But if Imperial players start taking Bastions, things could get interesting.

Something else I though of today. If a Dreadnought charges something with Gauss or a weapon of sufficient strength that gets lucky, what happens to that Dreadnought if it gets Stunned or Immobilized? Does it still make combat? I guess that depends on when the shots actually occur. Guess I'll know in a week.


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## falcoso

Deathmarks - roll to hit on a 6 choose the hit model.

Gauss - glancing on 6s so insane anti-tank

General necrons - take models closest to shooter for wound allocation, good to keep enemies away from you, overwatch helps to soften an assaulting squad, and if it contributes towards combat res then even better, and finally random charge length to stop people assaulting.

Necron warriors - move and shoot with rapid fire is very useful, I think relentless gives u an extra shot with a rapid fire weapon, maybe not as effective but still very useful with a phaeron if rumours are true.

Destroyers - new preffered enemy very useful for shooting, especially with heavy destroyers because I never seem to hit with those. What's more the fact you can move and fire heavy weapons is even better with heavy destroyers.

Trazyn - maybe a bit worse with the warlord perks, could make his objective capturing a but less.

Command barge - the sweep attck isn't as unique anymore with the vector strike

Scythes - much better, hitting on 6s if shooting at it, a lot less killable.

General vehicles - most necron vehicle have 3 hull points which is pretty good given a land raider has 4.


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## Madden

Praetorians have got buffed (as rumor has it) as there jump infantry they get an attack at i10 with all the weapon bonuses (I use blade and pistol) so they can kill a dread before it strikes or kill a vehicle before standard attacks kick in. I'm just hopeing that we get some form of AA gun/rule or else flyers will shoot/bomb/missile us to bits with relative impunity.


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## darklove

Fliers can attack fliers without negative penalties, and Necrons can take a lot of fliers. S7 will be hitting on full BS, and hurting most enemy fliers on a 3 or 4 to penetrate.


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## Madden

Ah so true but and it's a biggie we have short range on our flyers if we don't get first strike chances are we dead 24" don't match 36"+. These rules are going to force a lot of rethinks in use and movement (which can only be a good thing).


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## pantat

From the GW site:

Necrons Allies: Chaos Marines, Grey Knights, Orks, Tau, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Space Marines, Space Wolves.


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## darklove

Madden said:


> Ah so true but and it's a biggie we have short range on our flyers if we don't get first strike chances are we dead 24" don't match 36"+. These rules are going to force a lot of rethinks in use and movement (which can only be a good thing).


Consider for a moment that you can move 36" and then shoot something 24" away: range should not be an issue.


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## The Sturk

pantat said:


> From the GW site:
> 
> Necrons Allies: Chaos Marines, Grey Knights, Orks, Tau, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Space Marines, Space Wolves.


As I expected, no Eldar (either ones) or Daemons on this list. Chaos is a surprise to me however.

That said, keep in mind that the extent of allying can vary.


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## pantat

The Sturk said:


> As I expected, no Eldar (either ones) or Daemons on this list. Chaos is a surprise to me however.
> 
> That said, keep in mind that the extent of allying can vary.


Yes im interested to see that and te effects of different levels of allies. Obviously BA will be under the 'best buds' bit lol:laugh:


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## Pandora

darklove said:


> Consider for a moment that you can move 36" and then shoot something 24" away: range should not be an issue.


From what I saw, all fliers move 18" ascombat speed and 36" as cruising. As I recall, your Doom Scythes are fliers and a strength 10 shot will take out anything else in the air. Your Scythes are already among the fastest vehicles in game, matching even my Razorwings. I would think they will still be useful.



The Sturk said:


> As I expected, no Eldar (either ones) or Daemons on this list. Chaos is a surprise to me however.
> 
> That said, keep in mind that the extent of allying can vary.


My Dark Eldar would not deign to enter battle with soulless machines. And stay out of our Webway! Any opening Dolman Gates will be met with extreme prejudice. :grin:


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## falcoso

I think its only fast flyers which can move 36'', because it would sort of make the supersonic rule pointless. I'm very surprised that necrons have so many imperial allies, and that we ally with orks - weren't krork made by the old ones then evolved into orks?


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## The Sturk

It just occurred to me today...If normal power weapons are truly AP3, then that would boost Vargard Obyron's usefulness, as he can now fight other Elite Close Combat units alone thanks to his 2+ armor save.

@Falcoso: Assuming that those Allied Charts are correct, than Imperium forces would be grudging allies, meaning that while we can ally, there will be side effects if we do so. As for Orks...no idea. I guarantee Imotekh would hardly every ally with them.


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## Iron Angel

Pandora said:


> My Dark Eldar would not deign to enter battle with soulless machines. And stay out of our Webway! Any opening Dolman Gates will be met with extreme prejudice. :grin:


And you presume we would mingle with the warp-addled remnants of a race we shattered beneath our heel long ago- An obliteration so complete, even after millions of years of our absence you have not recovered.


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## Da Joka

Here's some things I musing about with the confirmed rules so far....

1)Overwatch actually makes Dispersion Shields rather sexy. Now you're more likely to be shot at within the 6" range then you where before.

2) Entropic Touch now makes more sense on C'tans as MCs are losing their 2d6 armor pen. And while talking of C'tans I hope they change Lord of Fire to include fire based Psychic Powers as well as weapons.

3) Hammer of Wrath (aka the I10 strike that Jump Infantry get) Makes Wraiths EVEN BETTER.

4)Beast now ignore terrain. LOLZ SCARABS!!

5) Vehicles can fire all of their weapons (even if they fire an Ordnance) But if they move only one is at their full BS. Being Heavy means our Monoliths can move 6" and Fire every gun at full BS, each at it's own target, AND use the Portal of Exile.

6) The way Living Metal is worded (both Fluff-wise, and actual Rule-wise) makes me think, that when you successfully ignore a 'Crew Shaken' or 'Crew Stunned' result, you will not use a Hull Point. Don't take my word for it though.

7) Death Rays are even better due to the fact that they don't use BS. You may freely Evade, something Fliers can do, granting you a 5+ cover save, but only allowing snapshots the following turn (snapshot means you're lowered to BS1)

8) Anrakyr the Traveller's Pyrrhian Eternals (and Nemesor Zahndrekh for that matter) are very nice now, as you can Overwatch, AND Counter-Attack in the same go...

9) Hopefully Flayed Ones get Terrify (Like their old rule, something like: units in close combat have to pass LD test or become WS1)

10) Preferred Enemy now works in both Assault, and Shooting. Now allows reroll all 1's, for hits and wounds. Destroyers are really good again.

That's all I got for now...


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## darklove

Don't forget that Destroyers are Jump Infantry too now, they also get Hammer of Wrath. Destroyers sound like they might be even better than Wraiths!


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## Creator of Chaos

I wouldn't go that far. remember wraiths have a 3+invuln, 2 wounds, S6 Rending and the awesome wraith flight ability. Remember wraiths are jump infantry as well so anything that preatorians, assualt marines and the like get so do wraiths. Plus destroyers are still fragile and only worth it if you take the max 5 where as you can run as few as 2 wraiths and still get results

But I must admit the changes to prefered enemy and as such destroyers are fantastic. I could see myself easily having a single squad just to kill marines and contest objectives (well they already do it now they'll just do it far better) but heavy destroyers will now be worth taking as well just for a re-rollable heavy guass cannon. At the very-least destroyer wing will be a viable competive choice again but better then wraiths we'll see just dont overhype yourself.

My biggest worry tho is relentless. I'm curious as to what they do with it. I love running a 20 man phearon squad (Otherwise known as my deathsquad at Gamesworkshop) for manavourable firepower and when the time is right move shoot charge. I'm hoping that since rapidfire weapons are getting a buff that maybe Relentless to will get a buff


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## pantat

Creator of Chaos said:


> I wouldn't go that far. remember wraiths have a 3+invuln, 2 wounds, S6 Rending and the awesome wraith flight ability. Remember wraiths are jump infantry as well so anything that preatorians, assualt marines and the like get so do wraiths. Plus destroyers are still fragile and only worth it if you take the max 5 where as you can run as few as 2 wraiths and still get results
> 
> But I must admit the changes to prefered enemy and as such destroyers are fantastic. I could see myself easily having a single squad just to kill marines and contest objectives (well they already do it now they'll just do it far better) but heavy destroyers will now be worth taking as well just for a re-rollable heavy guass cannon. At the very-least destroyer wing will be a viable competive choice again but better then wraiths we'll see just dont overhype yourself.
> 
> My biggest worry tho is relentless. I'm curious as to what they do with it. I love running a 20 man phearon squad (Otherwise known as my deathsquad at Gamesworkshop) for manavourable firepower and when the time is right move shoot charge. I'm hoping that since rapidfire weapons are getting a buff that maybe Relentless to will get a buff


Apparently relentless is the new 'fleet' and/or you get an extra shot when rapid firing. From what I've heard/read.


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## Archon Dan

Da Joka said:


> Here's some things I musing about with the confirmed rules so far....
> 
> 1)Overwatch actually makes Dispersion Shields rather sexy. Now you're more likely to be shot at within the 6" range then you where before.
> 
> 2) Entropic Touch now makes more sense on C'tans as MCs are losing their 2d6 armor pen. And while talking of C'tans I hope they change Lord of Fire to include fire based Psychic Powers as well as weapons.
> 
> 3) Hammer of Wrath (aka the I10 strike that Jump Infantry get) Makes Wraiths EVEN BETTER.
> 
> 4)Beast now ignore terrain. LOLZ SCARABS!!
> 
> 5) Vehicles can fire all of their weapons (even if they fire an Ordnance) But if they move only one is at their full BS. Being Heavy means our Monoliths can move 6" and Fire every gun at full BS, each at it's own target, AND use the Portal of Exile.
> 
> 6) The way Living Metal is worded (both Fluff-wise, and actual Rule-wise) makes me think, that when you successfully ignore a 'Crew Shaken' or 'Crew Stunned' result, you will not use a Hull Point. Don't take my word for it though.
> 
> 7) Death Rays are even better due to the fact that they don't use BS. You may freely Evade, something Fliers can do, granting you a 5+ cover save, but only allowing snapshots the following turn (snapshot means you're lowered to BS1)
> 
> 8) Anrakyr the Traveller's Pyrrhian Eternals (and Nemesor Zahndrekh for that matter) are very nice now, as you can Overwatch, AND Counter-Attack in the same go...
> 
> 9) Hopefully Flayed Ones get Terrify (Like their old rule, something like: units in close combat have to pass LD test or become WS1)
> 
> 10) Preferred Enemy now works in both Assault, and Shooting. Now allows reroll all 1's, for hits and wounds. Destroyers are really good again.
> 
> That's all I got for now...



Loving all of this. The new rules may justify the cost of things like the Doom Scythe. So far, mine has just been getting obliterated. Another good thing about the new vehicle rules is that all our skimmers and fliers that we want to move quickly and still shoot carry the twin-linked Tesla Destructor. Thanks to TL, I usually roll one 6 anyway and 3 hits is better than none.


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## The Sturk

I'm going to repeat this since it was seemingly missed.

Most Power weapons are AP3 now, barring Power Fists, Axes and T-hammers, all of which are Initiative 1. This means that Obyron can now hold his own against other elite CC units and be able to use his amazing ability.

Not to mention that since he is an IC, he can issue Challenges which can be very useful.


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## Iron Angel

Da Joka said:


> Here's some things I musing about with the confirmed rules so far....
> 
> 1)Overwatch actually makes Dispersion Shields rather sexy. Now you're more likely to be shot at within the 6" range then you where before.
> 
> Hell yes, now I can field a unit of Lychguard and not feel guilty about it!
> 
> 2) Entropic Touch now makes more sense on C'tans as MCs are losing their 2d6 armor pen. And while talking of C'tans I hope they change Lord of Fire to include fire based Psychic Powers as well as weapons.
> 
> I still think it would be underpowered, C'tan just wouldn't hit enough times for it to matter.
> 
> 3) Hammer of Wrath (aka the I10 strike that Jump Infantry get) Makes Wraiths EVEN BETTER.
> 
> As though they needed it. Also, destroyers were given Preferred Enemy. Now we know why.
> 
> 4)Beast now ignore terrain. LOLZ SCARABS!!
> 
> LOLZ indeed. Assaulting through terrain? Yes pls.
> 
> 5) Vehicles can fire all of their weapons (even if they fire an Ordnance) But if they move only one is at their full BS. Being Heavy means our Monoliths can move 6" and Fire every gun at full BS, each at it's own target, AND use the Portal of Exile.
> 
> Well, that certainly helps to make the Monolith more effective for its points...
> 
> 6) The way Living Metal is worded (both Fluff-wise, and actual Rule-wise) makes me think, that when you successfully ignore a 'Crew Shaken' or 'Crew Stunned' result, you will not use a Hull Point. Don't take my word for it though.
> 
> Hull points in general will make our vehicles stronger. This is just icing on the cake.
> 
> 7) Death Rays are even better due to the fact that they don't use BS. You may freely Evade, something Fliers can do, granting you a 5+ cover save, but only allowing snapshots the following turn (snapshot means you're lowered to BS1)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8) Anrakyr the Traveller's Pyrrhian Eternals (and Nemesor Zahndrekh for that matter) are very nice now, as you can Overwatch, AND Counter-Attack in the same go...
> 
> Ok. What is overwatch.
> 
> 9) Hopefully Flayed Ones get Terrify (Like their old rule, something like: units in close combat have to pass LD test or become WS1)
> 
> They certainly need SOMETHING to make them worth their points. I think that would work, but it should also lower LD or make them take it on 3d6 since there is way too much LD9/10 out there.
> 
> 10) Preferred Enemy now works in both Assault, and Shooting. Now allows reroll all 1's, for hits and wounds. Destroyers are really good again.
> 
> FUUUUCK YES! Rerolling Gauss Cannons! Glorious!
> 
> That's all I got for now...


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## pantat

I disagree about hull points making this stronger. You literally can glance a vehicle to death now.


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## Iron Angel

You could glance a vehicle to death before. A ghost ark only needs to suffer four glances to die. Two for weapons, once for immob, once to destroy. Now, the only glances you lose hull points from (If the whole ignore hit thing is correct) is immob and wd _anyway_ which is what killed you from glances in the first place. A CCB needs three glances, a doom scythe needs three, a night scythe needs two, a Monolith needs goddamn everything thrown at it.

Other vehicles will not be so lucky and I think that this is the compensation for the dominance of mech in the game.


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## pantat

As far as i'm aware every glance = -1hp. This makes it needing exactly 4 glances to destroy whereas before you need to glance AND roll correctly. Also, a glance does not grant a roll on the vehicle damage chart now, just the loss of a hull point. Thats why i think its easier. Thn again - still based on rumours and have no real idea of my own knowing how it works!


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## pantat

Unless of course living metal allows you to counter any lost hull points. That would be good!


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## katfude

I had a game where my ghost ark suffered a glance from reanimating warriors and wrecked itself. I'm excited that this will never happen again because of a single dice roll.

Also: double FOC at 2k... say hello to my 6 annihilation barges! :bye:


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## LukeValantine

Here is a scary fact necron vehicles can now be downed by glances. I used to count on weapons like AC's only being able to immobilize or strip a gun of a vehicle (I always take repair spiders), but now 3 lucky glances will outright kill most necron vehicles....well that and apparently night fighting is getting a nerf (Can't say I didn't see it coming).


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## mcmuffin

LukeValantine said:


> Here is a scary fact necron vehicles can now be downed by glances. I used to count on weapons like AC's only being able to immobilize or strip a gun of a vehicle (I always take repair spiders), but now 3 lucky glances will outright kill most necron vehicles....well that and apparently night fighting is getting a nerf (Can't say I didn't see it coming).


Living metal will ignore a lost hull point on a 4+ i bet


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## Iron Angel

I wonder if spiders with claws can also repair hull points on our vehicles. Yet another reason to take them.

I do like that my stalker is a lot less of a liability in CC though.


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## The Sturk

You know...if only we had an even more effective way of removing armor. Like say....a gun that removes 4 hull points every time its used.

Oh wait. We do that have!

Harbingers of the Storm and their Voltaic Staff just got buffed big time. Because it fires 4 haywire shots each turn, it can turn a Leman Russ into a slag of electro-corrosive metal instantly

Now for maximum efficiently, take a Royal Court with 3 Storm-Teks and a Cryptek of Despair (with the Veil) and go around, wrecking armor with ease. So now you have a reliable anti-tank unit for only 135 pts that should have a guaranteed tank wrecked each turn, including turn 1.


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## pantat

The Sturk said:


> You know...if only we had an even more effective way of removing armor. Like say....a gun that removes 4 hull points every time its used.
> 
> Oh wait. We do that have!
> 
> Harbingers of the Storm and their Voltaic Staff just got buffed big time. Because it fires 4 haywire shots each turn, it can turn a Leman Russ into a slag of electro-corrosive metal instantly
> 
> Now for maximum efficiently, take a Royal Court with 3 Storm-Teks and a Cryptek of Despair (with the Veil) and go around, wrecking armor with ease. So now you have a reliable anti-tank unit for only 135 pts that should have a guaranteed tank wrecked each turn, including turn 1.


Oh my god thats actually an AMAZING idea that i must try out!


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## Iron Angel

Put a stormtek or two with some Sword and Board lychguard and you have a transport wrecking crew. Stormtek destroys the transport, lychguard eat the contents, rinse, repeat.


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## The Sturk

Only problem there is, they are slow on foot. Unless you have a Scythe transport I suppose.


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## Creator of Chaos

Simply put Necrons are going to be Amazing. There vechiles thanks to living metal are better then other vechiles. We have spyders to repair stuff and there all AV13. Guass, Stormteks and scarabs pretty much mean death to enemy vechiles and Warscythes are now better then most power weapons and axes since it ''ignores armour saves'' and strikes at initiative 2. I could go On but I can safely say that necrons might just have the next metagame made


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## Pandora

As the newest codex, Necrons should be the power army. I didn't see that much to impress me with fifth ed rules. Guess your codex was literally made for 6th. Just be ready for the next new dex to be better. It would seem my days of overt war may be drawing to an end but I will still be launching raids for as long I can. My Razorwings may just be a match, what with Flickerfields.


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## Creator of Chaos

Curse you and your Flickerfields XD I hate fighting Dark Eldar. 

Anyway Just went on fight and discovered new rules for nightfighting assuming there real. beyond 36" enemies cant shoot at all, Beyond 24" You get a shroud save or 2+cover (Unless its barrage obviously assuming the rules are the same), at 12'' or more you have stealth and Nightfighting can occur in everygame now on a 4+ at the start roling to see if it continues each turn. Imotek and Solar pulse will obviosly remain auto-nightfighting.

Mixed bag on this. while the 24'' and 36'' rules are definatly a positive (Which is why I use nightfighting) within 24 has effectivly been nerthed. At-least we can still get within rapidfire and tesla destructer range safely.


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## Madden

Not so good, as rumor has it that night vision means you ignor night fight bit of a buff for deldar as that's a standard ability.


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## zigy

All of this is awsome. Reading trough rumors and brainstorming what will some rule mean for necrons I had a feeling we are going to be ok, but I realized maybe just 1/2 of things you all mentioned. Really AWSOME.
So NECRONS will rule again ... :victory:


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## Da Joka

@Iron Angel: Overwatch is when you get to fire on units assaulting you, but only at BS1.
So what happens is this, Pyrrhian Eternals get assaulted, they then get their overwatch shots, after that if the unit is still within range they move into base to base, the Pyrrhian Eternals then roll for Counter-Attack (and with Ld 10 most likely make it). It's not quite as good as say everything that space wolves have.. but still better then what it used to be.


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## The Sturk

Thought of something else awesome. 

If I recall correctly, the Triarch Stalker allows any _*friendly*_ units to get twin-linked on a successful hit.

Assuming allies of any sort are friendly units, this can be extremely useful to certain allies, such as Tau and Ork Lootas.


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## pantat

I think it says only battle brothers are friendly units. Allies of convenience count as enemy units who cannot be targeted.


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## Iron Angel

Overwatch will make Dispersion shields on foot much sexier and it looks like mech is getting a debuff anyway, making footslogging even more attractive. Besides, Scythes aren't an assault transport. You open yourself to a turn of shooting. At least this way you can take some cover saves or hide.

After waiting so long and struggling with a junk 3rd edition codex for two whole editions, its about time we were on top for once.

The downside?

Necrons are now "in" and I'm no longer the unique and special snowflake at my FLGS.



Da Joka said:


> @Iron Angel: Overwatch is when you get to fire on units assaulting you, but only at BS1.
> So what happens is this, Pyrrhian Eternals get assaulted, they then get their overwatch shots, after that if the unit is still within range they move into base to base, the Pyrrhian Eternals then roll for Counter-Attack (and with Ld 10 most likely make it). It's not quite as good as say everything that space wolves have.. but still better then what it used to be.


Yeah, I looked it up. Thanks though, thats a better explanation than the one I found.

Lychguard are going to have an easier time. You fire at BS1 at a unit that assaults you, namely the lychguard. Dispersion shields bounce one of the one or two hits back at you that were capable of actually hurting them. You take a casualty instead.

Edit: Whoa, how did I triple post? Merge pls
I want to try my Lychguard in this scenario and see how it actually plays out. Seems like a high-risk-high-reward type deal since you'll only bounce it 50% of the time, but when it works, it works well.


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## Da Joka

The Sturk said:


> Thought of something else awesome.
> 
> If I recall correctly, the Triarch Stalker allows any _*friendly*_ units to get twin-linked on a successful hit.
> 
> Assuming allies of any sort are friendly units, this can be extremely useful to certain allies, such as Tau and Ork Lootas.


Unfortunately Necrons don't have any "Brother's in Arms" or whatever the best allies are called. Every other level they are treated as enemies that you can't shoot or assault.

EDIT to avoid double post: I just noticed C'tan Shards are "Characters" This means they can use the "Look out Sir!" rule, as long as they are within 6" or closer to another unit. This is another point for them... They seem to be getting more and more playable the more I learn about 6th.


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## Archon Dan

The Sturk said:


> Thought of something else awesome.
> 
> If I recall correctly, the Triarch Stalker allows any _*friendly*_ units to get twin-linked on a successful hit.
> 
> Assuming allies of any sort are friendly units, this can be extremely useful to certain allies, such as Tau and Ork Lootas.


It is nice to make everything twin-linked against one squad. It may not work with allies though. But my gaming group runs large, multi-player games frequently and it is nice to make something like Kabalite Warriors twin-linked against MCs.



Da Joka said:


> Unfortunately Necrons don't have any "Brother's in Arms" or whatever the best allies are called. Every other level they are treated as enemies that you can't shoot or assault.
> 
> EDIT to avoid double post: I just noticed C'tan Shards are "Characters" This means they can use the "Look out Sir!" rule, as long as they are within 6" or closer to another unit. This is another point for them... They seem to be getting more and more playable the more I learn about 6th.


Wouldn't being characters also mean they can issue challenges? C'Tan certainly are looking good, though Writhing Worldscape is loosing some power. A 5+ save is less tempting than a 4+ and the terrain killing you makes it even worse.


----------



## The Sturk

But C'Tan ignore terrain like Wraiths.


----------



## Archon Dan

Yes they do. Taking Writhing Worldscape on a C'Tan hurts your enemies, not you. But people are less likely to use or move through cover if they only get a 5+ save instead of 4+. I'm not concerned with cover for a C'Tan since they have a 4++.


----------



## Da Joka

All it means is if you want to take Writhing Worldscape you'll just have to take more Tremorstaves.


----------



## The Sturk

Another thought occurred to me. How will weapons such as Imotekh's Staff or the Death Ray work with the new wound allocation.

If I draw a line over specific models in a unit, will those specific models have to take the wounds? If so, that can make them very powerful if they are hiding their characters in the back of a unit.


----------



## Da Joka

I think Line weapons will hit the people they cross over, but we will have to wait for the online update for that one.


----------



## darklove

Pre-measuring should help with that too, so you can now line up shot better. This is probably more realistic - future people should have range finders etc... If anything, WFB should ban pre-measuring.


----------



## MidnightSun

Oh I forgot pre-measuring was in, it makes Flash Gitz even more laughably useless now!

Midnight


----------



## pantat

FAQs up. Command barge is a chariot which means the overlord can attack in clpse combat while still on it, gains +1 to his armour save and the chartip gives D6 S6 Hammer of Wrath hits if he goes into combat on it!


----------



## LukeValantine

The two changes that effect necrons the most. Warsythes are AP1 (WTF?) and whip coils now reduce Int to one after all other modifiers (Reversing the last FaQ..)


----------



## Creator of Chaos

Warscythes AP1 with Armourbane, +2S and can strike ahead of Powerfists and other weapons similar. I can say with certainty that the Warscythe is one of the deadliest if not deadlist CCW in the game. Combine this with Catocomb command barge thanks to Chariot ( Sweep Attacks, D6 Hammer of wrath attacks before actual Combat and then Fearless) and it gets even Better. If you can use Mind Shackle Scarabs off a Barge (1 can hope) this gets better still

Seriously Even I want to take an Overlord on Barge Now. Overlords Just went from decent in combat to Monsters That could probably give even Abbadon and his terminators a run for his money. 

I'm Tempted to go 1 Barge Overlord and 1 Destroyer lord with 6 Wraiths just to see the reacation of my enemies.


----------



## Sothot

What if you already have a 2+ save on your overlord? Does he get a reroll or just +1 up to a 2+ save?


----------



## Creator of Chaos

Sothot said:


> What if you already have a 2+ save on your overlord? Does he get a reroll or just +1 up to a 2+ save?


As far as I'm aware you dont get a re-roll nor do you get a +1 save. If you read the core rulebook you'll know that 1 is always a failure. The best save you can hope for is 2+ but thats still good. If your not intending to have Imotek or a generic overlord on foot you can save yourself the points you'd overwise spend on Weave and use it elsewhere as long as the lord stays on the barge.

Really this Chariot thing for the barge is godly. I wonder if any other units in the game have been classed as chariots


----------



## Sothot

Your barge will be cracked eventually, and in this edition 15 points for that near invulnerable 2+ is a steal. Actually, I can see barges being top priority with these rules. I'm astounded at how...overpowered necrons seem right now. There needs to be some serious errata on the way or it well be hard for us to find a game


----------



## pantat

Well necrons are the newest codex. Whoever is next will then be best and so on


----------



## The Sturk

pantat said:


> Well necrons are the newest codex. Whoever is next will then be best and so on


Not true. Imperial Guard have been regarded as one of the best for a long while now, and they had their update years ago.

Looking at other things from the FAQ...

Praetorians now appear to be termie-killers, now that their staff is AP2. It sucks that it now has unweildly, so they will be striking at once with PF termies.

Orikan is also AP2 for his CC attacks, and he can re-roll the hits to boot! 

But the bigggest winners here are the CCB and the Warscythe. That free +1 armor bonus will help a lot in close combat. And now the Warscythe, as mentioned before, is one of (or IS) the deadliest Close Combat weapons in the game. And you can practically say good bye to vehicles that they hit. Its pretty much the Broadside of Close Combat Weapons.


Also, did you all see the Anrakyr model in the Army Showcase? He looks frikken sweet.


Oh and one more thing. Because Monoliths are Skimmers, they get the Jink rule...so it now has a 5+ cover save.


----------



## your master

Creator of Chaos said:


> As far as I'm aware you dont get a re-roll nor do you get a +1 save. If you read the core rulebook you'll know that 1 is always a failure. The best save you can hope for is 2+ but thats still good. If your not intending to have Imotek or a generic overlord on foot you can save yourself the points you'd overwise spend on Weave and use it elsewhere as long as the lord stays on the barge.
> 
> Really this Chariot thing for the barge is godly. I wonder if any other units in the game have been classed as chariots


I'm wondering if this means you can have a 1+ save but just like on fantasy you fail on a 1 but you gain the advantage of always have a save against ap2 weapons??


----------



## pantat

your master said:


> I'm wondering if this means you can have a 1+ save but just like on fantasy you fail on a 1 but you gain the advantage of always have a save against ap2 weapons??


No i dont think so. Theres a paragraph somewhere that specifically says your save can never be improved more than a 2+.


----------



## pantat

The Sturk said:


> Not true. Imperial Guard have been regarded as one of the best for a long while now, and they had their update years ago.
> 
> Looking at other things from the FAQ...
> 
> Praetorians now appear to be termie-killers, now that their staff is AP2. It sucks that it now has unweildly, so they will be striking at once with PF termies.
> 
> Orikan is also AP2 for his CC attacks, and he can re-roll the hits to boot!
> 
> But the bigggest winners here are the CCB and the Warscythe. That free +1 armor bonus will help a lot in close combat. And now the Warscythe, as mentioned before, is one of (or IS) the deadliest Close Combat weapons in the game. And you can practically say good bye to vehicles that they hit. Its pretty much the Broadside of Close Combat Weapons.
> 
> 
> Also, did you all see the Anrakyr model in the Army Showcase? He looks frikken sweet.
> 
> 
> Oh and one more thing. Because Monoliths are Skimmers, they get the Jink rule...so it now has a 5+ cover save.


Well then maybe everyone who plays guard at my FLGS is just really shit cus i never lost to them yet or see them win very often... I havent read the codex myself so i cannot comment further on whether it is good or not, just never thought of it because of the local players. 

Also - monoliths jinking would be amazing!! Unless it says inthe heavy section that they cant..? I'll check later cus thats awesome now haha


----------



## darklove

Nightscythes just got even more amazing!

They can move 36" and still allow units to disembark, and then still shoot its amazing Tesla Destructor! I was worried when I read the BRB at first, but then the FAQ just made it a million times better than I even thought possible


----------



## The Sturk

pantat said:


> Well then maybe everyone who plays guard at my FLGS is just really shit cus i never lost to them yet or see them win very often... I havent read the codex myself so i cannot comment further on whether it is good or not, just never thought of it because of the local players.
> 
> Also - monoliths jinking would be amazing!! Unless it says inthe heavy section that they cant..? I'll check later cus thats awesome now haha


Just checked the Heavy rule. All it says is that Heavy Vehicles can't go faster than Combat speed.
Jink only requires you to move in the movement phase, so as long as you move those 6 inches, you get a cover save.

They also mention that Deep Striking counts as moving Cruising Speed, so you even get Jink then for any Deep Striking Skimmers.

If only the Monolith also had "IT WILL NOT DIE!"


----------



## pantat

The Sturk said:


> Just checked the Heavy rule. All it says is that Heavy Vehicles can't go faster than Combat speed.
> Jink only requires you to move in the movement phase, so as long as you move those 6 inches, you get a cover save.
> 
> They also mention that Deep Striking counts as moving Cruising Speed, so you even get Jink then for any Deep Striking Skimmers.
> 
> If only the Monolith also had "IT WILL NOT DIE!"


Yes i re-read in my GW today. Its ridiculous! I can imagine a land speeder dodging a lascannon shot but a monolith couldn't dodge shit! Haha oh well.


----------



## zigy

From what I read so far i also see that we have super duper flyers and the bad side is
Night Vision
"A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule ignores the effects of Night Fighting"
This also spoils our game a bit, but with all the goodies we can manage.
How do you think we'll go againt alied enemy and psy crap we don't have?


----------



## Sothot

Just finished my first read through with the necron book close at hand. Ghost Arks are fucking brutal! I think I will be playing multiple ghost arks feeding a 20 man warrior unit. The amount of gauss that will put out should almost cover my anti mech needs... Necron Phalanx is back and scarier than ever.


----------



## The Sturk

zigy said:


> From what I read so far i also see that we have super duper flyers and the bad side is
> Night Vision
> "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule ignores the effects of Night Fighting"
> This also spoils our game a bit, but with all the goodies we can manage.
> How do you think we'll go againt alied enemy and psy crap we don't have?


To my knowledge, aren't the only two armies with extensive Night Vision Tau and Dark Eldar?

I think its a good thing personally. I think as of recently, Solar Pulses and Imotekh's storm have been crutches. Of course both are still useful, but we shouldn't rely on them as heavily now.

Our best Psychic defense are Spyders with Gloom Prisms, but beyond that, we are pretty vulnerable beyond a 6+ deny the witch. For best Psychic defense, we need to ally. 
Grey Knights are probably our best defense against psykers, as well as our best psyker ally.

Conversely, Tau would be good for Anti-Tank and heavy fire support with Battlesuits, though they can be expensive. 

It is a shame that we have no Battle Brother allies, but we can make do without them.

We are one of the few armies that benefited from their FAQs, with Warscythes being AP1, Chariots and other misc items.



> Just finished my first read through with the necron book close at hand. Ghost Arks are fucking brutal! I think I will be playing multiple ghost arks feeding a 20 man warrior unit. The amount of gauss that will put out should almost cover my anti mech needs... Necron Phalanx is back and scarier than ever.


Agreed. We have the two most durable Transports in terms of Hull Points: Ghost Ark and Monolith (its a transport in a way). Just stay away from Melta and any AP1, as a +3 on the damage table for our Open Topped vehicles will ruin our day. And we have the best flying transport IMO. We can move the full 36" in the movement phase and still deploy our troops AS WELL as keeping them safe in case the transport blows up in transit.

The Monolith is also worth taking thanks to a 5+ cover save. It's not the best save but its something to keep it alive longer. 
Not to mention we are less likely to have it die deep striking.


----------



## Creon

The problem is Necrons have no battle brothers. Thereby Allies give no psychic defense to Necron units. They have psychic OFFENSE, but nothing protective. Back to the Gloom Prisms only. If you're not a battle brother, allies are still Enemy units. And won't help you resist psykers.


----------



## The Sturk

Yes, but sometimes, a good offense is a good defense. Plus, I have a feeling that the Grey Knights would be a larger target to Psychic powers due to their power.

Still, your right. Spyders are likely are best Psychic defense. If only they still had the rule where they didn't need to be in coherency.


----------



## LukeValantine

av14 with the equivalent of a dark eldar vehicle save? Yah that about makes the monolith the best 200pts a person could spend on a vehicle.


----------



## gally912

Doesn't Heavy state that the vehicle counts as being stationary?

Which means that it wouldnt count as having moved in the movement phase.

Which means no Jink?


----------



## The Sturk

gally912 said:


> Doesn't Heavy state that the vehicle counts as being stationary?
> 
> Which means that it wouldnt count as having moved in the movement phase.
> 
> Which means no Jink?


That is a good point...not sure as the vehicle does move. That's something that should be put to an FAQ.


----------



## pantat

gally912 said:


> Doesn't Heavy state that the vehicle counts as being stationary?
> 
> Which means that it wouldnt count as having moved in the movement phase.
> 
> Which means no Jink?


Good point. Although it says (along the lines i think) that it 'counts as stationary for shooting'. So as it moves it gets jink, as things are written. I'm fine if it gets FAQ'd and disallowed as the mental image of a monolith trying to jink out of the way of a missile or a lascannon shot is quite ridiculous


----------



## The Sturk

pantat said:


> Good point. Although it says (along the lines i think) that it 'counts as stationary for shooting'. So as it moves it gets jink, as things are written. I'm fine if it gets FAQ'd and disallowed as the mental image of a monolith trying to jink out of the way of a missile or a lascannon shot is quite ridiculous


A better image is that it phases out for a brief moment.


----------



## Vaz

Fuck that, Barrel rolling monolith all the way.


----------



## Creon

The Heavy Vehicle rule from the BRB is "For the purposes of determining what weapons....can fire, treat the vehicle as being stationary". So long as you move 1 inch, you get to jink.


----------



## Da Joka

Heavy says 'counts as stationary for shooting' Jink away good Monolith sir!

Also unless I'm reading it wrong ICs with Preferred Enemy now grant it to units they join. This would mean Destroyer Lords give it to Wraiths....



Vaz said:


> Fuck that, Barrel rolling monolith all the way.


I'm going to sig this...


----------



## Creon

Preferred enemy indeed does give the entire unit the special ability if one has it. As do Night Fighting and Acute Senses.


----------



## pantat

The Sturk said:


> A better image is that it phases out for a brief moment.


Good idea



Vaz said:


> Fuck that, Barrel rolling monolith all the way.


Awesome image haha:laugh: it can only move 6" cus its preparing for the inevitable roll it has to make :laugh:


----------



## MidnightSun

pantat said:


> Awesome image haha:laugh:



View attachment 959936021


Midnight


----------



## Da Joka

MidnightSun said:


> View attachment 959936021
> 
> 
> Midnight


HAHHAHAHAAHAH +rep for you sir.


----------



## The Sturk

Damn it Midnight! I'm at work right now!


----------



## Iron Angel

Heavy is like Relentless in vehicle form, basically.

Also, make that an animated GIF for extra lulz.

One more thing, Rod of Covenant is AP2 in melee. Still wouldn't directly attack terminators, but its something.


----------



## The Sturk

Its Ap2, but it also strikes at Initiative 1. So even if you are fighting TH or PF Termies, you strike at the same time they do.


----------



## Iron Angel

Ah ffff

Didn't see the "unwieldy" part...

The dual weapon option is looking better and better.

And also, it occurs to me that a C'tan with Time's Arrow would be great for picking off models with power axes or power fists... If you get to use the Unwieldy rule to modify the enemy's I first, making them I1. How would that work?


----------



## The Sturk

Holy shit guys, I think I just found something even more awesome regarding the Monolith.

On Page 83, it says that Skimmers that are forced to end their move over friendly/enemy models, the skimmer moves the minimum amount of distance away to ensure no models are under it.

On Page 36, its says under Deep Strike, that vehicles that have deep striked count as have moving Cruising.

With these rules combined, does this mean that the Monolith is once again immune to Deep Strike Mishaps over other models?!?


----------



## Da Joka

The Sturk said:


> Holy shit guys, I think I just found something even more awesome regarding the Monolith.
> 
> On Page 83, it says that Skimmers that are forced to end their move over friendly/enemy models, the skimmer moves the minimum amount of distance away to ensure no models are under it.
> 
> On Page 36, its says under Deep Strike, that vehicles that have deep striked count as have moving Cruising.
> 
> With these rules combined, does this mean that the Monolith is once again immune to Deep Strike Mishaps over other models?!?


I... I don't know...

After thinking about it for a minute I will have to say no. But only because Deep striking isn't moving.. and you're not moving over models. You're just being deployed on top of them.


----------



## OMNOMNOMIVORE

Da Joka said:


> I... I don't know...
> 
> After thinking about it for a minute I will have to say no. But only because Deep striking isn't moving.. and you're not moving over models. You're just being deployed on top of them.


deep striking vehicles count as moving at cruising speed. and no, its not immune, it can land on impassable terrain or off the board.


----------



## Da Joka

OMNOMNOMIVORE said:


> deep striking vehicles count as moving at cruising speed. and no, its not immune, it can land on impassable terrain or off the board.


Hmmm

Well Gentlemen, The Monolith is back.

Also skimmers can land on impassable terrain as long you can actually fit the model on the terrain.


----------



## Iron Angel

One thing I want to point out about Necrons in 6th.

In 5th, with both old and new dex, I did not advocate C'tan. That attitude has done a 180. C'tan are complete beasts now thanks to Challenges and LOS!. A C'tan can wreck just about any IC in the game with the proper powers (Namely, Time's Arrow and Gaze of Death). It also gets a Look Out Sir! roll against shooting, being an IC, meaning he is much more likely to make it to combat if you just mosey him along with your army. He can accept challenges in the stead of other IC's he is within 6" of (If I am to understand it correctly). He gets a 4+ invuln so even if he fails a 2+ LOS! roll he has a good chance of survival. You will want to launch him at the enemy once you are in range as both counterassault, tarpit, and mega-super-death-annihilation-monster. You want to Overwatch at the C'tan because he is all prepped and ready to wreck your shit? You go for it. T7, bitch. Prepare your anus.


----------



## The Sturk

Da Joka said:


> Hmmm
> 
> Well Gentlemen, The Monolith is back.
> 
> Also skimmers can land on impassable terrain as long you can actually fit the model on the terrain.













@Iron Angel: I though Look Out Sir! only works if the model is in a squad? Also, C'Tan aren't IC's. They are just characters.


----------



## Iron Angel

The Sturk said:


> I though Look Out Sir! only works if the model is in a squad?


I have to check, but iirc, it just needs a friendly model within 6".



The Sturk said:


> Also, C'Tan aren't IC's. They are just characters.












Does anyone know if Characters can also take advantage of these rules? Don't have my 6th with me...


----------



## pantat

Characters can still do look out sir! But on a 4+ instead


----------



## Iron Angel

Well in that case, allow me to get out my whoopdy-doo stick and wave it around, because a 4+ is still pretty damn good. Its not a 2+, but it still works just fine. Getting through that, then the 4++ invuln is going to be a hell of an accomplishment anyway. 4 wounds, only one actually gets through. Did I mention my C'tan runs with GoD? I'll be taking that wound back now kthxplz.


----------



## The Sturk

Don't forget Fear. Nothing's like fighting a Deity at WS 1.

Question: Do you guys think it might be worth taking a Transdimensional Beamer on Wraiths now that they can Snap Fire it?


----------



## Da Joka

No really. 
The only place to take Transdimensional Beamers is in Kill team. You give the Wraith that has it Relentless and laugh as you banish models to the void.


----------



## MidnightSun

The Sturk said:


> Don't forget Fear. Nothing's like fighting a Deity at WS 1.


Fear's weird, pretty much everything in the game is either immune to it or are squishy enough to die like bitches without it. Yeah, once in a million games you'll come across the dude who put Krak Grenades on his Guardsmen and he'll fail the test and you'll probably survive the smattering of Str 6 hits, but anything Space Marine, Orks, Daemons and Tyranids are all immune, and Guardsmen with a Commissar, Chaos Space Marines, Necrons and Eldar all have the Leadership with which to pass the check (with the exception of Guardians without an Embolden Warlock, but do you really need to debuff Guardians to kill them when you have GoD?).

Character means you only get a 4+ LoS! (and only one wound can be LoS!-ed per phase, IIRC) and you get Precision Shots and Strikes. So there'll be one time you smack the dude with the Power Fist in the phase with Transdimensional Thunderbolt, but it's only realistically useful with Pyreshards, which is pretty bad. Precision Strike is great though, lets you bash the dude with the fancy weapon before it comes into contact with your C'tan.

Midnight


----------



## Hardcore Heathen

As long as we're talking about Monoliths and C'tan...you can portal the C'tan to the Monolith.

So, after you Deep Strike your Monolith right behind the enemy lines, laughing at the concept of Mishap Tables, and blow the ever-living hell out of your opponent? They'll have to turn everything they have on it. They can't afford to let it live. Because if it does? You can pop a C'tan out of it at the beginning of your next movement phase. And it'll be right on top of whatever assaulted at the Monolith.

Of course, you could always send in multiple Monoliths...

(I know this has been mentioned in other threads before, but felt it worthy of mention.)


----------



## Creon

I'm still not sure why you laugh at mishaps. I still don't see why you don't mishap just as much now as in 5th. Mishaps are just less worrisome. But, eh. 

If a C'tan can't move up the center and get where he needs to, well then he's not trying hard enough!


----------



## Hardcore Heathen

Creon said:


> I'm still not sure why you laugh at mishaps. I still don't see why you don't mishap just as much now as in 5th. Mishaps are just less worrisome. But, eh.
> 
> If a C'tan can't move up the center and get where he needs to, well then he's not trying hard enough!


The Monolith is a skimmer, and therefore can't end its movement on top of troops - it gets auto-moved to not be on top of them. So if you Deep Strike and scatter onto a unit, big deal, you just auto-move to the nearest bit of open terrain and don't suffer a mishap.

I'm at work and can't access my copy of the BRB, but that's basically the way I (and several other posters) _think_ it works, RAW. You can still suffer a mishap if the Monolith can't be placed on terrain it scatters onto, of course.


----------



## Creon

Ah, but deep strike could be considered deployment rather than movement, and in that case you can't deploy on troops. I see what you're saying, it depends on what you consider Deep Strike.


----------



## darklove

As a skimmer the Monolish can go over any terrain and could even end its move on impassible terrain, but would need to take a dangerous terrain test.

The only thing that the Monoloth really needs to worry about is scattering off the table.

One problem with the portal is that it counts as disembarking from a moving vehicle, so no assaulting C'tan on the turn you transport them.


----------



## The Sturk

darklove said:


> As a skimmer the Monolish can go over any terrain and could even end its move on impassible terrain, but would need to take a dangerous terrain test.
> 
> The only thing that the Monoloth really needs to worry about is scattering off the table.
> 
> One problem with the portal is that it counts as disembarking from a moving vehicle, so no assaulting C'tan on the turn you transport them.


So then your opponent has a choice. Take down the lith, or the C'Tan, or hope they have enough fire power to do both.

Either way, it draws fire away from the rest of your army.

In my most previous game, a Monolith came in, popped out the C'tan and nuked a Devastator squad. Next turn, my opponent melta bombed the Monolith, but failed to kill the C'tan, allowing it to destroy the other squads around it.


----------



## TDbehr

LOS! can only be used once *Per wound* if the unit consists *ONLY* of characters.

im still very dubious about the whole skimmer vs mishap thing. By *RAW, *deepstriking isn't *explicitly* classed as moving. the unit can simply not move if it has deep striked. then when that unit wants to shoot, it is counted as having moved (imo this DOES NOT meant that it actually moved) for the purpose of shooting restrictions(snap-fire etc) and vehicles count as having moved at cruising speed, which means they can only snap fire all of their weapons (that can be snap fired ofc). this does *not* mean the the vehicle actually moved at cruising speed.

then the skimmer movement rules only apply to *moving*, and as above, deepstriking *IS NOT MOVING.

*even by *RAW* i dont believe it makes skimmers immune.

on the other hand. necron specific here, obyron's ghost mantal cloak states that he can use it "instead of moving normally" using the deepstrike rules. this is interesting as to me, contrary to the deepstrike rules themselves (which also refer to coming from reserves) this wording implies using his mantal *is* a move, just not a normal move (similar to the new 'leap-down' rules for buildings.

confused:dunno:


----------



## Creon

It all depends on whether or not Deep Striking is Movement or not. And it's very not clear. And in addition, is it "Skimmer" movement or "Deep Strike" movement type, if it is. Pending clarification, it's very murky.


----------



## Routine

Iron Angel said:


> Well in that case, allow me to get out my whoopdy-doo stick and wave it around, because a 4+ is still pretty damn good. Its not a 2+, but it still works just fine. Getting through that, then the 4++ invuln is going to be a hell of an accomplishment anyway. 4 wounds, only one actually gets through. Did I mention my C'tan runs with GoD? I'll be taking that wound back now kthxplz.


"Look Out Sir" only works if there is a model From the Same Squad within 6". Otherwise you could run a C'Tan beside a bunch of Scarabs or something, and be cackling like a maniac all the while

Edit: Hmm, should have checked the dates on these posts. My apologies for the thread bump


----------



## zigy

I just must say ... atm our flyers rule the sky, I lov'em. 2 points tho - 1 flyer is no flyer and I think that with new codexes comming out this will slowly decline.

We really do have some uber nice competative combos ( I like that other thread :so_happy and options for good army build, no matter the point cost.

Me like my crons :thank_you:GW!
Regards,
Zigy


----------



## zigy

Hmmm ... new FAQ nerfed us some.
Lost of Monolith Jink was kind of expected but Doom Scythe ray can't hit flyers totally surprised me. So as I understand - if I choose skyfire for my DoomScythe I can shoot other flyers with my TL tesla destructor and ray does nothing and if I don’t choose skyfire I can shoot with destructor and ray at ground units, including flying stuff in hoover/gliding state. Can just destructor have skyfire and ray shooting at ground units?

Uploading troops on night scythe can maybe prove useful someday tho?


----------



## Creon

You don't fire the death ray if you choose skyfire, cause it's not available to snap shots. You can tesla anything on the ground hit by the death ray, as that's a "targeted unit". Makes the Scythe a little less desirable for 75 extra points. Better to have many transports with tesla ruling the sky.


----------



## mcmuffin

Creon said:


> You don't fire the death ray if you choose skyfire, cause it's not available to snap shots. You can tesla anything on the ground hit by the death ray, as that's a "targeted unit". Makes the Scythe a little less desirable for 75 extra points. Better to have many transports with tesla ruling the sky.


Doomscythe is there to kill terminators and armies with lots of marines, which is what tesla has problems with. Spamming flyers is crap, taking any more than 5 in an army means you are sacrificing other great units like annihilation barges, wraiths destroyers and deathmarks.


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## Iron Angel

There is a parabolic curve to army effectiveness when taking flyers. At its peak, which is 2-3, they are extremely effective without sacrificing the rest of your army. More than that, however, sees diminishing returns as more of your scoring units are left vulnerable. At its apex, 9 flyers, even at 2k you have almost nothing else on the board, and with a little well-placed firepower you could lose at the end of turn 1- And even if you don't, those few small units will be dead quickly anyway, preventing you from claiming any objectives.


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## The Sturk

Since you can now embark onto a Night Scythe via the base...I thought of a small possibility:

Flier zooms in (preferably 24" or less) carrying Immortals or Deathmarks

They get out and fire at their target, as does the Scythe.

Next turn, since embarking is done in the movement phase, the Immortals/Deathmarks embark back on, then the Scythe zooms away, off the board or so.

The way I see it, this can prolong our shootier units as long as they are not assaulted. And since embarking/movement is done at the same turn (in no particular order as I saw) The Night Scythe can still move its minimum 18 without crashing.


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