# What would happen to Traitors from the Heresy..



## zacktheRipper (Jan 23, 2012)

...if they denounce Chaos? I was wondering about this the other day, and what exactly would happen, say, if an Iron Warrior abandoned Chaos and sought redemption? Of course, since they are Traitorous Extremis they would be executed..I don't know, its just a really complicated scenario that I wanted to share with you all. What WOULD happen, do you think?


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## COMPNOR (Apr 21, 2010)

After 10,000 years I'm pretty sure they'd be executed, for even if they were believed to be telling the truth, I think an argument would be made that there is a great chance of a lingering taint of Chaos, and better to off the sod then let him live. 

Best case scenario I could see would be some sort of penitent mission, a final charge for glory and the Emperor that would most assuredly end in death.


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## Cowbellicus (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm pretty sure the need to punish 10,000 years of murder, damnation and destruction will far outweigh the need to add a single heavy infantry unit to the 92 quadrillion soldiers already in the Imperium.


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## Codex Todd (Mar 22, 2009)

Be granted the Emperors forgiveness with a bolt round through the head


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## cranvill (Jul 20, 2008)

For true servents of the dark ones there can be no forgiveness just death in the fires of judgement.

That or slapped wrist and stern telling off =)


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Well, members of certain Traitor legions (the Iron Warriors for example) tend to not be particularly fervent chaos worshipers in the first place. Theirs was more of an ideological/daddy-didn't-love-us-enough rebellion rather than a religious schism. That being said ~10000 years living the the Eye will have an incredibly corrupting influence on anything and any marine which is even slightly open to this will be tainted. IF a Traitor Legionnaire were to renounce Chaos, they would still be killed; if they were also to proclaim the Emperor as the one-true-god and savior of mankind, they would be killed and then possibly forgiven. And all that being said, I highly doubt a Traitor Legionnaire would repent because a) they all believe they were right and b) they've had 10,000 years to build grudges against the Imperium anyway.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

"There is no innocence, only degrees of guilt."

There's no way the Inquisition/High Lords or even the loyalist SM chapters would stand for a traitor's repentence. They have committed the ultimate sin and caused a great deal of strife. Either way they would be executed without hesitation (possibly tortured first for information). And that's provided the Chaos Gods don't get to them first for renouncing them...


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

I believe the protocol when dealing with the traitor legions is to offer them the chance of redemption slightly before you pull the trigger on the bolt pistol. 

They have the time of flight to avail themselves of the Emperors forgiveness.


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## Designation P-90 (Feb 24, 2012)

The best they could hope for is to stay away from ANY and ALL Imperium/Chaos forces.


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Designation P-90 said:


> The best they could hope for is to stay away from ANY and ALL Imperium/Chaos forces.


The Eldar wouldn't like them much either, particularly if they were Slaneeshi, Orks don't like ANYONE, Dark Eldar are just as Chaotic really and the Tau are so bloody insular they'd have a fit !

So really it just leaves a small desert island somewhere.


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## Zetronus (May 9, 2012)

The biggest part of being forgiven is undestanding and ebracing ones error - 

to accept the willful destruction, pillaging, murder, sacrificing the innocent and other deeds so hideous and to desturbing to even think about - lest be said write about ....

I believe.... that one would want to end their existance the moment that was realized and how wrong they had been... and woudn't seek redemention - other than at the end of a Heavy Bolter.

Personaly with the weight of their doings - a truly repenent soul couldn't live with the knowledge of 10,000 years of the sourest of evil deeds they and thier brothers had performed.... to be a true chaos in itself a schism, a fractioned mind, no longer sane - so trying to make sane sense from the insane is method to place your own sanity at risk.

A true chaos warror embraces all that they do, for what they do is right and just - just as the imperium believes to the contrary.


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## CPT Killjoy (Feb 15, 2012)

So I actually read a short story about this. I don't remember what it was called (I sort of read alot), but the story goes something like this:
A Red Corsair librarian turns himself into the White Scars. He says he knows where Huron Blackheart will strike next and offers to help the White Scars kill him. He and one White Scar head back to Badab, claiming that they escaped and that the White Scar who is with him turned on his brothers. Fast forward a bit, the White Scar is killed, and the Librarian sends out a psychic message alerting the Whte Scars as to where Blackheart will strike next. Blackheart catches him doing this, and choses to go somewhere else instead. This makes the White Scars believe that the Librarian was lying all along, and they just assume that he was a double agent. Then Blackheart takes the librarian, and puts him in a dreadnought sarcophagus, never to be connected to it's body. This way the Librarian gets to see all of the terrible things Blackheart does, and live with his failure to stop him, which will now haunt him, forever. 

So basically, even with good intentions, a Chaos Marine who turns to good would be really, really lucky if all that happened to him was that he got shot in the head.


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## JAMOB (Dec 30, 2010)

Well... i think if he did it immediately after the heresy he would be forgiven (with some rigorous torture and cleansing), but otherwise he would get "the emperors mercy". *BANG*

Of course, they might just put him in time out.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

The naughty corner..........is pretty large in the 40k universe.


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## vipertaja (Mar 20, 2010)

There are also the events described in the book "Daemon world", but everything involving the character in question is pretty confusing, including his final fate. 
*Lexicanum entry on Arguleon Veq*


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## Ultra1 (Mar 10, 2011)

a lot of people are commenting on the 10,000 year old traitor marines, what about the younger ones? i read in the ultramarines omnibus about iron warriors abducting children and forcefully turning them into traitor space marines. what would happen if soon after turned an iron warrior ran away because they remembered what had happened to them? what if they had yet to partake in all the badness that goes along with being a traitor marine? could they be forgiven? i mean if they didn't willfully go to chaos, and hadn't committed atrocities yet could they be forgiven?


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## COMPNOR (Apr 21, 2010)

Ultra1 said:


> a lot of people are commenting on the 10,000 year old traitor marines, what about the younger ones? i read in the ultramarines omnibus about iron warriors abducting children and forcefully turning them into traitor space marines. what would happen if soon after turned an iron warrior ran away because they remembered what had happened to them? what if they had yet to partake in all the badness that goes along with being a traitor marine? could they be forgiven? i mean if they didn't willfully go to chaos, and hadn't committed atrocities yet could they be forgiven?


I think they'd be SOL. They're only chance at redemption might just be to betray their legion so the "good guys" can win, dying in the process. I think any newly created Marines would be assumed to be tainted from the get go.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

In the WH40K-verse, there have been several examples of possession followed by redemption... or at least Astares and Inquisitors who have been possessed and thrown off the daemon. I think this was one of the Grey Knight books... I would love to throw out some quotes, but can't remember the sepecifics for the life of me.

I imagine that, like in the current world, no one gets more juice than a redeemed sinner, so why not? OK, OK, some Inquisitor from the Ordo Malleus who's committed Exterminatus on billions of normal Imperial citizens to get at one Chaos cultist swoops down... that's probably who.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Ultra1 said:


> what if they had yet to partake in all the badness that goes along with being a traitor marine? could they be forgiven? i mean if they didn't willfully go to chaos, and hadn't committed atrocities yet could they be forgiven?


Most in the 40k, rightly or wrongly, believe that the geneseed of the traitor legions is corrupted. This is why they won't use it to make new chapters (at least, not openly) and this is why they would condemn a Iron Warrior on sight. He is the enemy, it is not the place of any Imperial citizen to question why. The faithful would sooner die than be taken into the grip of chaos, that this individual not only survived but prospered shows his corruption clearly.



Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> In the WH40K-verse, there have been several examples of possession followed by redemption... or at least Astares and Inquisitors who have been possessed and thrown off the daemon.


This is not the same though. A daemon can take even the most loyal servant of the Throne through possession and by throwing out the daemon the individual proves his devotion. This is an external invasion, turning to chaos is an internal decision. 

Here's a quote for you: "A Heretic may see the truth and seek redemption. He may be forgiven his past and will be absolved in death. A Traitor can never be forgiven. A Traitor will never find peace in this world or the next. There is nothing as wretched or as hated in all the world as a Traitor." Cardinal Khrysdam (Codex: Witch Hunters)

Pretty much sums up the Imperiums views on the matter.


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## Dragblud da scrunka (Mar 26, 2009)

I think they would have thier Corrupt armour melted over them and left as a statue for traitors to see...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

The Dark Angels will kill any that fell, and any in connection with the true fallen.

However, that is not the precedent that is normally sent.

The Etogaur Mabbon for example, during the Gaunt's Ghost Story Arc, is kept for information, despite being a traitor 3 times over, and the puritanical chaos dalek, I mean Inquisitor.

Admittedly, he isn't a Space Marine, and didn't fight during the Heresy.


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## TheOnlySaneObliterator (May 3, 2012)

Well... what if they also did something for the Impirum? Sort of a, "Sorry 'bout that, let me make it up to you.",kind of thing. Say an Iron warrior were to sabatoge a Warsmiths Flagship at a critical moment and escape to a nearby planet's surface narrowly escaping the massive explosion of the Flagships Warp-fusion core which also destroyed four other ships in the Iron Warriors' fleet, thus leaving it open to a coup de grace by an Imperial Fleet action? If that Iron Warrior wasn't alive during the Heresy, didn't actually fight much while he was an Iron Warrior, and has documented evidence of him being the one that sabotaged the ship, AND was truely repetant or never tainted in the first place, do you thinked he has a chance?

...

Not- not that _*I*_ was thinking about it... just, you know, what if?

*Big Smile*


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## Cowbellicus (Apr 10, 2012)

Assuming he is captured instead of killed for whatever reason (does that ever happen with traitors?), he is subject to lengthy Inquisition torture followed by a bolt pistol round to the head. 

Suffer not the heretic to live, and stuff.


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## TheOnlySaneObliterator (May 3, 2012)

Cowbellicus said:


> Assuming he is captured instead of killed for whatever reason (does that ever happen with traitors?), he is subject to lengthy Inquisition torture followed by a bolt pistol round to the head.
> 
> Suffer not the heretic to live, and stuff.


 Well... Damn... It's ironic as hell that I... I mean anyone from the Horus Heresy has a better life expectancy if they stick with Chaos... WAIT! What if the left and went to join... I'm having a hard time even thinking it, much less saying (typing) it... What if they left Chaos and joined... The Greater Good? No, seriously, what would be the chances of a CSM being accepted into the Tau empire following a massive betrayal of of his/her/it's fellow CSM?


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

TheOnlySaneObliterator said:


> Well... Damn... It's ironic as hell that I... I mean anyone from the Horus Heresy has a better life expectancy if they stick with Chaos... WAIT! What if the left and went to join... I'm having a hard time even thinking it, much less saying (typing) it... What if they left Chaos and joined... The Greater Good? No, seriously, what would be the chances of a CSM being accepted into the Tau empire following a massive betrayal of of his/her/it's fellow CSM?


Probably pretty good (certainly better than with the Imperium). 
1) Tau don't understand the true scale of the threat Chaos poses. 
2) He never betrayed them, so while his trustworthiness is suspect they can still potentially accept it. 
3) Tau regularly accept humans and/or individuals of varying religious beliefs. This is all the Tau are likely to see his faith as, a different religion. 
4) He'd be potentially very, very useful to them. Space Marines are easily amongst the most deadly things the Tau have ever faced, having one working with them (perhaps training troops) or even just as a willing, living test subject, would likely be a huge gain for them. The Tau, unlike most other races, are willing to overlook moral risks in favour of advancement, technological or otherwise.


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## TheOnlySaneObliterator (May 3, 2012)

MEQinc said:


> Probably pretty good (certainly better than with the Imperium).
> 1) Tau don't understand the true scale of the threat Chaos poses.
> 2) He never betrayed them, so while his trustworthiness is suspect they can still potentially accept it.
> 3) Tau regularly accept humans and/or individuals of varying religious beliefs. This is all the Tau are likely to see his faith as, a different religion.
> 4) He'd be potentially very, very useful to them. Space Marines are easily amongst the most deadly things the Tau have ever faced, having one working with them (perhaps training troops) or even just as a willing, living test subject, would likely be a huge gain for them. The Tau, unlike most other races, are willing to overlook moral risks in favour of advancement, technological or otherwise.


Awesome!

...

An ex-Chaos, Space Marine... Gue'vesa?

Sounds like fun.:grin:

But would they accept a mutant?


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

TheOnlySaneObliterator said:


> But would they accept a mutant?


Would they be able to tell? I'm sure all humans look alike to them anyway.


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## TheOnlySaneObliterator (May 3, 2012)

MEQinc said:


> Would they be able to tell? I'm sure all humans look alike to them anyway.


I think they know what humans look like by now. They probably have even realized that Mechanicus Adepts are just humans with cybernetic augmentations. When they see a Chaos mutant they might look at it and go "What in the name of the Ethereals is THAT thing?".:shok:

For the record we are talking about mutants that are still recognizably human, but horribly altered/deformed. Kind of like... well, an obliterator.

And what about a Possesed? I mean, a Possesed that has so much control over the daemon that they're able to just tell it, "NO! I'm leaving, shut up.", and get away with it. Then imagine that the Tau witness the possesed going all daemonic, what do you think they'd say or do?


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## TheReverend (Dec 2, 2007)

You say they wouldn't be forgiven by the Imperium, but what if a whole legion, say, the Alpha Legion, reappeared, uncorrupted, and wen't "we were on your side all along, just ask the Bog E".

Imagine what a whole, heresy-era-sized Legion could do for the Imperium in its current predicament. With hungry wolves knocking at every door, it's only a matter of time before the Imperium has to compromise its values and take on allies (Tau, Eldar....), and look what happened to the Romans when they started doing that! Diluting the citizenship was the number one reason that empire collapsed. The Big E might have been in charge for 10,000 but he won't be around much longer...


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

omg..what about a chapter that's turned renegade and instead of going to chaos they go to tau, that would be weird and also very interesting.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

TheReverend said:


> You say they wouldn't be forgiven by the Imperium, but what if a whole legion, say, the Alpha Legion, reappeared, uncorrupted, and wen't "we were on your side all along, just ask the Bog E".


Yeah because the Alpha Legion just ooze trustworthy-ness. Besides which, with no way to verify their information (because 1) The Emp is incommunicado and 2) it's likely he doesn't know the Alpha's plan) and no plenty of evidence that throws shit-loads of doubt on their claim, it'd be assumed to be a trap and the Imperium would just jump on the chance to eliminate a Traitor Legion whole-sale.


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## LongfangFenrika93 (Jan 22, 2012)

He's right. Realistically the only traitor Legion that could do the whole coming back with open arms, been-on-your-side all along thing would be the Alpha Legion. And the Imperium just wouldn't even hesitate at the chance of wiping them out. With the recent Heresy books showing the possible division between the twins, its not even certain they still are on 'our' side. The inquisition and the church would jump at the chance to destroy them. All the traitor legions have no chance of reconciliation.

Also, the whole Imperium, like every aspect of it, is driven from birth to hate, despise, fear and just generally shit on the memory of the traitor Legions. I'm pretty sure its even taboo to mention them. Its ingrained into the current mindset of the Imperium that to even treat with the traitors makes you a traitor. Its been ten millenia of hate and division.


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## Lemanruss27 (Feb 16, 2012)

I should believe,that the answer should be pretty obvious,once they v comitted them selfs to chaos trere s no turning back,the only thing they should excpect is a bolter round through the head.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Dunno if this has been brought up before but most CSM (I'd venture NO CSM) are 10,000 years old. Members of First Claw are only a few hundred years old because they've only experienced 200 years since the HH. Time flows differently in Warp-heavy areas.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

The Alpha Legion could come back and they'd be welcomed with open arms 

They's just come back as a different chapter, mind wipe the memories from themselves so as to withstant scrutiny, and maintain a stand-offish demenour to offset further scrutiny(ie - space wolves)

No one knows how many chapters there are and some manage to hide things even between loyalist chapters (eg - The Mantis Warriors in the kill team omnibus) 

Besides - wouldn't it just count as chapter wide infiltration?


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## LongfangFenrika93 (Jan 22, 2012)

I suppose they could come back as a different Chapter. Or Chapter's considering the Alpha Legion numbers probably into the tens of thousands still. But then you have to look at it as 'are they really redeeming themselves?', hiding behind new faces and the like. And yeah they could maybe wipe the lower ranking warriors' memories, but the higher echelons of command will know, much like the secrets of the Dark Angels. Very complicated shit. 

Plus they would have to fake their worship of the Emperor because the Astartes of the Great Crusade era knew he wasn't a god, or that is what the Imperial Truth said. Its all a bit sticky, because then you have to worry about former allies from the Heresy letting the whole Galaxy know. And the Inquisition will probably catch something amiss with the lack of Alpha Legion activity. 

It just wouldn't be the Alpha Legion's way. They could undoubtedly pull it off, assuming they are still organised and they fight in the same way that Alpharius taught them, but they would just be another of the Space Marine chapters, doing little but bashing aliens and heretics in the borders of the Imperium.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

LongfangFenrika93 said:


> It just wouldn't be the Alpha Legion's way.


Good point - unless it was for a massive campaign of some sort, It wouldn't be worth their time.

Kind've nerfing their own legion...:suicide:


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## Sangriento (Dec 1, 2010)

I think DA's treatment to their "repenting" fallens exemplarizes the Imperium's way to deal with defecting chaos forces.


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## TheOnlySaneObliterator (May 3, 2012)

Words_of_Truth said:


> omg..what about a chapter that's turned renegade and instead of going to chaos they go to tau, that would be weird and also very interesting.


Now THAT'S a thought...

Imagine the progression from Space Marine to Gue'vesa ("human helpers" in Tau... Tauish?) As Imperial equipment breaks down or is destroyed in conflicts, it would be replaced by Tau tech with Imperial engineering assistance. Tau power armor. Space Marine battlesuits? I can think of a dozen things off the top of my head that would make SMs much more effective if they took on Tau allies (and consented to using xenos tech, of course... Big if). I mean think about it. 

Could Markerlights be refitted to be mounted on power armor? Thus giving SMs the ability to call down Seeker Missiles?

The Tau could produce Pulse weapons on Space marine scale? Just picture it: Boltgun-sized Pulse-rifles. Basically plasma rifles with rapid-fire.

Space Marines can lift much heavier weapons than the Tau can. They could probably wield battlesuit weapons as infantry with a little modding.

The combination of Space Marine prowess (along with any of the serfs and Mechanicus attaches that came along with the Chapter), and the technological prowess of the Tau, would make an increadiblly deadly fighting force, if a small one.

One problem though... recruiting. How would the SMs replenish any numbers lost from the exodus from the Impirium (where they would likely have been chased by another Chapter)? I guess they could try and recruit from the other Tau planets that have humans on them.


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

While I realise these marines are not from the Heresy, didn't the Soul Drinkers fall to Chaos and then try and repent the best they could under Sarpedon (only read upto the 3rd book)?

They basically ended up fighting the Imperium (who wanted to kill them), Chaos (narked off with them for saying no) and themselves


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Sons of Malice do that as well, they fight who they have to.


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## Insanity (Oct 25, 2011)

I thought the title of this thread was familiar


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)

I vaguely remember a throwaway story from the 13th Black Crusade...something about a Thousand Sons Marine who suddenly feels guilty after a few thousand years of villainy, and decides to ram his starship into some kind of daemon void whale or something.

As for the Alpha Legion...if they are still 'undercover,' then they're in so deep there are probably quite a few individual Legionnaires that aren't even aware of the fact that everything they do is actually for the Emperor. Which of course, begs the question; now that the 'worst-case scenario' vision the Cabal showed has already come to pass, what exactly are they fighting for?


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