# ADB's Next Heresy Novel: Nightfall or Master of Mankind?



## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Title is exactly what it says.

https://twitter.com/adembskibowden/statuses/316556125573115904

ADB says he needs to decide between _Nightfall_ or _The Master of Mankind_ for this next Horus Heresy novel. I'm hoping for _Nightfall_ for obvious reasons, MORE SEVATAR!

Who agrees or disagrees with me?


LotN


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## Lupe (Jan 3, 2011)

Nightfall, no question about it.

However, I feel this need to be said. It says something about the Horus Heresy series when the Emperor himself is less popular than a first company captain that wasn't even in the lore until a few years ago...


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I dunno really. Much as I like Sevetar, I'm just dying to see more Custodes action.


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

As long as he gets to do both in the fullness of time I'm not really bothered. I think Master of Mankind is more needed at this point tho. He's been portrayed as too much of a dick up till now. He needs some love.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

@AoB: Yup. That and finally shedding some light on the Secret War/The Emperor > Sevatar's escape any day.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Lupe said:


> Nightfall, no question about it.
> 
> However, I feel this need to be said. It says something about the Horus Heresy series when the Emperor himself is less popular than a first company captain that wasn't even in the lore until a few years ago...


Or it's a statement about ADB's writing skills that he's created a character that some people want to see more than the Emperor... glass half full or half empty.

That said I want _Nightfall_ solely for Sevatar. But admittedly _The Master of Mankind_ covers events that I want to see more than the events in _Nightfall_. But it's characters, will it have good characters? Undoubtedly, so we'll have to wait and see who they are.

And yes perhaps this is the book that will finally show that the Emperor isn't a complete moron because so far... damn.


LotN


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

I actually am a little NL saturated, there are plenty of legions out there who need some love, i understand there is one Legion ADB does rather not write about, but here still are plenty left
besides I understood that in the master of mankind there will be an important BA


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I'm hoping for more of Amon in _Master of Mankind_, I really like him as a potential main character for the novel.


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## Khyzer (Dec 22, 2012)

Angel of Blood said:


> I'm hoping for more of Amon in _Master of Mankind_, I really like him as a potential main character for the novel.


God would that be a cool point of view for the novel. But as we know, its never just one point of view lol, I wonder who else could be used... as long as its not another fucking remembrancer... Nothing I dont care about more then the opinions of a lowly human stuck in a confrontation of the gods and demigods... I get the whole "readers being able to connect with humans easier then with the mentality of Space Marines" but fuck if I just don't give a shit. I read these books to get away from my human existence lol, not delve the mind of a man who weeps and pisses his pants everytime a space marine walks by. 

I really hope its a custodes that we follow, would love to actually "be in" on the War of the Webway, and not just being relegated to sitting behind the Door once again listening to the sounds of whats happening, due to the human were following being to weak willed to fight chaos.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I think at this point the Emperor needs a bit more attention than Sevatar or the NL

Ultimately of course it's up to ADB/BL, but as someone mentioned, I feel a bit NL-saturated


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

Khyzer said:


> God would that be a cool point of view for the novel. But as we know, its never just one point of view lol, I wonder who else could be used... as long as its not another fucking remembrancer... Nothing I dont care about more then the opinions of a lowly human stuck in a confrontation of the gods and demigods... I get the whole "readers being able to connect with humans easier then with the mentality of Space Marines" but fuck if I just don't give a shit. I read these books to get away from my human existence lol, not delve the mind of a man who weeps and pisses his pants everytime a space marine walks by.
> 
> I really hope its a custodes that we follow, would love to actually "be in" on the War of the Webway, and not just being relegated to sitting behind the Door once again listening to the sounds of whats happening, due to the human were following being to weak willed to fight chaos.


I think the remembrancer points of view are invaluable, in that the Horus Heresy books all concern themselves with conflicting moralities. Through a human lens, the reader is better able to understand how the traitor legions fell. Without remembrancers, the Heresy series would be reduced to bolter porn, more or less.

And as ADB himself states throughout the Night Lords series, Astartes minds operate on a different basis from humans'. Especially in terms of morality. Actually, my favorite parts of that series were told through the eyes of Septimus and Octavia. ADB was very effective in their portrayal. Without their perspective, you could sometimes be fooled into believing the Night Lords were almost honorable.

I hope ADB focuses goes with _The Gates of Terra_. As mal310 said, we need a better perspective on the Emperor. Too many of the BL's best authors have been fixated on the traitor legions, leaving the loyalists looking alternatively aloof, selfish, self-righteous or arrogant. (Perturabo's feelings on Dorn in _Angel Exterminatus_ comes to mind)


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> I'm hoping for more of Amon in _Master of Mankind_, I really like him as a potential main character for the novel.


Whilst that is still possible, isn't a Blood Angel going to be the/one of the main characters?



MontytheMighty said:


> I think at this point the Emperor needs a bit more attention than Sevatar or the NL
> 
> Ultimately of course it's up to ADB/BL, but as someone mentioned, I feel a bit NL-saturated


I agree. The Night Lords, between their 40k series and their few appearances in the Heresy series, are not desperately requiring attention. Yes, we all love Sevatar, but I would be much more comfortable waiting to discover his fate than waiting for the much-needed expansion on the Secret War and the Emperor's character.

The Heresy series has been quite one-sided in terms of the perspectives we have been given of the traitors and loyalists. People, on these forums as well as others, commonly refer to several of the loyal Primarchs and the Emperor himself as foolish and ignorant because of some of the traitor perspectives we have seen (and indeed some of the below-bar loyalist portrayals). And whilst those opinions are generally ignorant themselves, it does show that the Emperor's character needs addressing more desperately than a cocky First Captain imprisoned aboard a Dark Angels ship.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> And whilst those opinions are generally ignorant themselves, it does show that the Emperor's character needs addressing more desperately than a cocky First Captain imprisoned aboard a Dark Angels ship.


I'm not so sure. One one hand I really wanted a book focused on the Emperor. 

On the other hand, I'm worried anyone's attempts at talking about the Emperor might botch my perception of him or do him an injustice.

Even though it is ADB we're talking about, it's a fear that won't go away until I actually read the book.


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## Khyzer (Dec 22, 2012)

maelstrom48 said:


> I think the remembrancer points of view are invaluable, in that the Horus Heresy books all concern themselves with conflicting moralities. Through a human lens, the reader is better able to understand how the traitor legions fell. Without remembrancers, the Heresy series would be reduced to bolter porn, more or less.


Well that is why I mentioned


Khyzer said:


> I get the whole "readers being able to connect with humans easier then with the mentality of Space Marines"





maelstrom48 said:


> And as ADB himself states throughout the Night Lords series, Astartes minds operate on a different basis from humans'. Especially in terms of morality. Actually, my favorite parts of that series were told through the eyes of Septimus and Octavia. ADB was very effective in their portrayal. Without their perspective, you could sometimes be fooled into believing the Night Lords were almost honorable.


Am I the only one who actually prefers to attempt to connect with the Space Marines methedology? If I were living in the 40k universe I would most certainly prefer to look at the universe as they do, and I enjoy the glimpses into how they morally judge things much more so then the endless billions of sniveling humans. And Septimus and Octavia are different in that their owner, Talos, included them into the schemes, they had a knowledge of what was going on. Almost every time we switched to their point of view they knew the plan, where as when ever we get remembrancers they are completely in the dark. In Fulgrim, all I cared about was watching the Emperor's Children fall to chaos, but instead I had endless chapters about painters and artists slowly falling. I get that humanity has its role to play and is worthy of a view during all this. But personally I just don't care, I would much rather my money goes towards the interactions of Space Marines, Primarchs, Custodes, Mechanicum, etc.


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

Well yeah, we all read the Horus Heresy books because we want to know more about marines. But to truly know a character (or set of characters), you need to view them through a different lens--a human lens. I appreciated the use of remembrancers in _Angel Exterminatus_. You have Serena D'Angelus and her rapid descent into insanity versus her paramour (I forget his name), who remains entirely human. Through his eyes, the reader gains a fresh perspective on the depths of Fulgrim's corruption. That's valuable to me. It helps me understand just _how_ the legion fell.

McNeill didn't pull it off quite as well as, say, Dan Abnett--but I firmly believe that ADB will find a way to make remembrancers relevant to the plot. And in keeping with what he did in the Night Lords series, they'll actually be _good_ characters. I look forward to seeing what he does.


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## sadLor (Jan 18, 2012)

Really hoping for Master of Mankind. ADB already did a great job with the NL's trilogy (and the extra short stories in the omnibus)


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Khyzer said:


> Am I the only one who actually prefers to attempt to connect with the Space Marines methedology? If I were living in the 40k universe I would most certainly prefer to look at the universe as they do, and I enjoy the glimpses into how they morally judge things much more so then the endless billions of sniveling humans. And Septimus and Octavia are different in that their owner, Talos, included them into the schemes, they had a knowledge of what was going on. Almost every time we switched to their point of view they knew the plan, where as when ever we get remembrancers they are completely in the dark. In Fulgrim, all I cared about was watching the Emperor's Children fall to chaos, but instead I had endless chapters about painters and artists slowly falling. I get that humanity has its role to play and is worthy of a view during all this. But personally I just don't care, I would much rather my money goes towards the interactions of Space Marines, Primarchs, Custodes, Mechanicum, etc.


I can see where you are coming from, but in most of the novels the mortals are part of an integral plot point and do serve a purpose. _Legion_ is perhaps the most obvious example: the Alpha Legion's portrayal was so good because we saw a lot of the plot from an outside perspective. The remembrancers throughout _Fulgrim_ serve as a strong indicator of the III Legion's corruption. Sindermann and Keeler in the opening trilogy fulfil an important role, whilst Cyrene from _The First Heretic_ was one of the most captivating characters of the whole series. Admittedly though it does swing both ways, and in some cases extensive chapters featuring certain mortals just seemed to drag and be unnecessary like in parts of _A Thousand Sons_, _Nemesis_, and _Prospero Burns_.


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## Khyzer (Dec 22, 2012)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I can see where you are coming from, but in most of the novels the mortals are part of an integral plot point and do serve a purpose. _Legion_ is perhaps the most obvious example: the Alpha Legion's portrayal was so good because we saw a lot of the plot from an outside perspective. The remembrancers throughout _Fulgrim_ serve as a strong indicator of the III Legion's corruption. Sindermann and Keeler in the opening trilogy fulfil an important role, whilst Cyrene from _The First Heretic_ was one of the most captivating characters of the whole series. Admittedly though it does swing both ways, and in some cases extensive chapters featuring certain mortals just seemed to drag and be unnecessary like in parts of _A Thousand Sons_, _Nemesis_, and _Prospero Burns_.


Yes, you guys obviously make some seriously true points with the integral essence that the mortal humans play in these story's. And I without a doubt agree in regards to _Legion_ and I personally believe it worked out really well in _Prospero Burns_ as well. I was more just caught up in the idea of the human parts of _A Thousand Sons_ and most specifically _Nemesis_.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> _Legion_ is perhaps the most obvious example: the Alpha Legion's portrayal was so good because we saw a lot of the plot from an outside perspective.


Whereas _The Serpent Beneath_ was so good for the exact opposite reason.


LotN


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> Whereas _The Serpent Beneath_ was so good for the exact opposite reason.
> 
> 
> LotN


What's your point?


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> What's your point?


The Alpha Legion are cool no matter how their portrayed. :wink:


LotN


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> The Alpha Legion are cool no matter how their portrayed. :wink:
> 
> 
> LotN


Not really...BL needs to tone down its "ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US" portrayal of the Alpha Legion. Right now, it feels like no other legion can wrongfoot the AL. 

I would like to see the AL face a real challenge from another legion, take some real damage. Enough of this "we're in your base, killing your dudes" wank


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## Tywin Lannister (Nov 17, 2011)

MontytheMighty said:


> Not really...BL needs to tone down its "ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US" portrayal of the Alpha Legion. Right now, it feels like no other legion can wrongfoot the AL.
> 
> I would like to see the AL face a real challenge from another legion, take some real damage. Enough of this "we're in your base, killing your dudes" wank


Amen to that! They do fail to win after all...

I'd also agree that we already know the devil has all the best characters, but it would be good to see some slightly less hapless loyalists at some point!


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

agreed


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I did vote for _Nightfall_, but that's because my opinion is slightly coloured (as a NL-collector). But I do think a short story about Blood Angels-characters, which is set as a prequel to _Master of Mankind_, is written first by ADB. He said so much on his FB-page. Hopefully he will portray them better than Swallow and I would also want to see more Custodes in that case.



Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I can see where you are coming from, but in most of the novels the mortals are part of an integral plot point and do serve a purpose. _Legion_ is perhaps the most obvious example: the Alpha Legion's portrayal was so good because we saw a lot of the plot from an outside perspective. The remembrancers throughout _Fulgrim_ serve as a strong indicator of the III Legion's corruption. Sindermann and Keeler in the opening trilogy fulfil an important role, whilst Cyrene from _The First Heretic_ was one of the most captivating characters of the whole series. Admittedly though it does swing both ways, and in some cases extensive chapters featuring certain mortals just seemed to drag and be unnecessary like in parts of _A Thousand Sons_, _Nemesis_, and _Prospero Burns_.


I would say they are essential so we get a human perspective on the whole why certain knowledge is bad to know. Just like the TS open up several Pandoras Box's, so does the humans in that story. One story that did not use the human characters well was _Fear to Tread_. But in PS and Nemesis perhaps I would say they are unnecessary.


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## Khyzer (Dec 22, 2012)

ADB Facebook http://www.facebook.com/aarondembskibowden


> This book is about the founding of the Black Legion. My next one is about the Emperor and Terra. No pressure, then.


So it is official, ADB will next write the founding of the Black Legion and thus beginning hopefully an amazingly wonderful long series about Abaddon the Despoiler!!!

This will then be followed up by his next Horus Heresy novel _Master of Mankind_.

And on a tear jerking somber note from ADB's facebook page


> Where Nightfall is concerned, due to scheduling and chronology, it's just not going to work as my next HH novel, or at this part of the series. Certain other events need to happen before I can tell that particular Night Lords tale, bearing in mind we know the next 3ish years of scheduled books.


So with looking at the other HH novels that have been announced and their supposed release date/schedule, I think it might be safe to assume there will be no HH Night Lords until 2014/2015 range :suicide:


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

MontytheMighty said:


> Ultimately of course it's up to ADB/BL, but as someone mentioned, I feel a bit NL-saturated


Sometimes, it comes down to the schedule of who has spaces where - and what books need to come first chronologically, for the events of the next novel to come in the right order, and so on. 

My preference, in public and at the last two years of meetings, has been to write _The Master of Mankind_ after _Betrayer_. 

The Night Lords have _The Dark King_ (audio drama); _Savage Weapons_ (short story); _Prince of Crows_ (novella), and even without a novel, they already have as much (and in most cases, much more) about their primarch's backstory as any other Legion so far, because _Prince of Crows_ showed it in more detail than most of the others. 

I was worried about "OverCurzing", as there's already a lot about him done, and he'll feature (along with many other primarchs) in the next few books, and I'd rather do something with the loyalists. So many loyalist factions have been reserved by other authors for so long, that it's awesome to finally have a chance to do something on the blue team. 

People often assume I write more Traitor stuff because I prefer it. I don't prefer anything over anything else, because I love it all - it often depends on what I have an idea for at the time, though._ But! _Sometimes, choices come down to what's actually left on the table, which isn't always a lot. 

In this case, I also wanted to write some old, famous "canon" before the Siege of Terra, because if we did all the series and I never got to write about a famous event because the other guys kept them all to themselves, my disappointment would've manifested in a very literal, very real, very sincere killing spree.


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## Brother Subtle (May 24, 2009)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> In this case, I also wanted to write some old, famous "canon" before the Siege of Terra, because if we did all the series and I never got to write about a famous event because the other guys kept them all to themselves, my disappointment would've manifested in a very literal, very real, very sincere killing spree.


Care to embellish on that at all? Come on... just a morsel?


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Brother Subtle said:


> Care to embellish on that at all? Come on... just a morsel?


Sure, though it's not as juicy as it sounds. First, you've got to remember I joined pretty late. _Legion_ had just been released, which is Book 8, I think. So a lot of the groundbreaking stuff and first glimpses of truly awe-inspiring 30K moments were already done.

I went to my first Horus Heresy meeting wanting to pitch for a novel about the Space Wolves on Prospero, but in my first meeting I learned that there were already expansive plans in that direction, and my editors noted aside that several factions were reserved based on authors' 40K work and intention to eventually tell those stories. Now, I didn't know Jim, Dan and Graham well then, so whereas now we'd chat about it and shoot the shit over someone really wanting to do something, back then, it was a matter of being told not to pitch for things those guys had reserved. I was the new guy, and so that made a lot of sense.

The Ultramarines, Iron Warriors and Thousand Sons were off the table, either because Graham was writing about them already or was going to soon. As were the Space Wolves. The Dark Angels were already done, and I wasn't interested in continuing that story thread, nor - at the time - was it an option to break away from it. The Sons of Horus were done in extensive detail already, and Graham had not only done a whole Emperor's Children novel, but said he had plans for them, too. The Blood Angels (who I'd been hoping to write about almost as much as the Space Wolves) were off the table because Jim had been down to do Signus Prime since forever, and no amount of me asking to do them elsewhere could change that. I'd just written a Night Lords novel, and it was only my second novel, so I was keen to do something else rather than be backed into that corner; added to the fact that arguably their most major moment (their primarch's rebellion) had already been covered in _The Dark King_. The Iron Hands' primarch was already dead, so that would be my first ever Horus Heresy novel without getting to write a primarch, with no canonical mentions of what the Iron Hands had done after Isstvan? No, ta. The Death Guard had already been done by Jim, and there was also talk he had plans for them in the future, too. The Alpha Legion had just had a novel, and it was (and still is) the best in the series. I didn't want to follow that at all.

Isstvan III and V were done. The Martian Civil War was done. Prospero, both sides of it, were being done. Signus Prime was reserved. The Ultramarines' side of Calth was reserved (though ended up later going to Dan because of scheduling reasons). That left precious little "famous" lore before the Siege of Terra, so it was quite a discouraging first meeting.

I'm not saying there was nothing left to do, and no new stories to tell. I'm not saying the other guys were evil assholes. The opposite is true; if I'd had a backbone, I could've steered through the maelstrom of what was implied by editors, inferred by the other authors, and actually locked down solidly as untouchable. I could easily have just asked them, human being to human being - though it should be noted in some cases I did do that, and they really wanted to write the "first" book of that Legion, or had very defined (and awesome) plans for it, so it was a no-go. I've been wanting to write about the Blood Angels in the Heresy since... forever.

I'm not being shafted by anyone, and I don't cry a puddle of tears after each meeting. There's some brutally mega stuff on my schedule, and I'm about as lucky as they come. I've got to tell some of the stories I've been dying to tell, and enjoyed pretty much every second of it. You can't have everything you want, and there are instances where the other guys desperately wanted to do X, Y or Z, and haven't been able to get it. It's not a unique thing that only applies to me. 

But it's been pretty tough to get any of the famous canon, between joining late and the old system of reserving stuff. Hence me saying behind the scenes, for a few years now, that I wanted the War in the Webway. Because if we reached Terra and I'd not got to touch a single famous event and show it first, I'd have been gutted. 40K is my life - my fave hobby, and one of my hugest loves since I was a kid. Not getting to touch at least one of the famous moments in a series like this would've been heartbreaking.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Sure, though it's not as juicy as it sounds. First, you've got to remember I joined pretty late. _Legion_ had just been released, which is Book 8, I think. So a lot of the groundbreaking stuff and first glimpses of truly awe-inspiring 30K moments were already done.
> 
> I went to my first Horus Heresy meeting wanting to pitch for a novel about the Space Wolves on Prospero, but in my first meeting I learned that there were already expansive plans in that direction, and my editors noted aside that several factions were reserved based on authors' 40K work and intention to eventually tell those stories. Now, I didn't know Jim, Dan and Graham well then, so whereas now we'd chat about it and shoot the shit over someone really wanting to do something, back then, it was a matter of being told not to pitch for things those guys had reserved. I was the new guy, and so that made a lot of sense.
> 
> ...


If only you were 7 feet tall and had the body of Arnold Schwarzenegger... so many stories could have been yours.

But in all seriousness, thank you for enlightening us on how stuff gets done over there (which I suppose isn't all that special).

Have you ever thought of adding something of your own creation to the Horus Heresy lore? 

Something huge I mean that hasn't been listed in a codex. Like a famous Librarian having a dream in M20.340 (or whatever set of years the Heresy lasted) which spoke of a hidden STC that could sway the odds in the Imperiums favor for a monumental battle? 

That way you can still have your name behind a famous moment and you can be certain it will always be yours for when you're ready to write it.


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Have you ever thought of adding something of your own creation to the Horus Heresy lore?
> 
> Something huge I mean that hasn't been listed in a codex. Like a famous Librarian having a dream in M20.340 (or whatever set of years the Heresy lasted) which spoke of a hidden STC that could sway the odds in the Imperiums favor for a monumental battle?
> 
> That way you can still have your name behind a famous moment and you can be certain it will always be yours for when you're ready to write it.


Practically everything I've done has been new and added. About half of _The First Heretic_ had no established older lore behind it, neither did _Betrayer_, _Prince of Crows_, or 'Savage Weapons'. I'm not shy about adding stuff (that's the job, after all).

When I asked the IP manager (who is the biggest 40K fan in the world) what he'd like to see, he once replied with "The Prosperos and Calths we've never got to see before."

I love that sentiment.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Hence me saying behind the scenes, for a few years now, that I wanted the War in the Webway. Because if we reached Terra and I'd not got to touch a single famous event and show it first, I'd have been gutted.


I have been looking forward to a novel about the whole war in the webway since I read the Collected Visions book. There are only a couple of big set pieces left apart from the actual assault on Terra, but this is one of them. 

And not an Astartes in sight. Excellent.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Khorne's Fist said:


> And not an Astartes in sight. Excellent.


I'm not 100%, but think there may be given what we know about _Blood in the Water_.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I'm not 100%, but think there may be given what we know about _Blood in the Water_.


Wait. What _do _we know about Blood in the Water?


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## mal310 (May 28, 2010)

Hi Aaron, thanks for all the great writing, it is truly a pleasure reading it. 

In relation to what you have written above, when the series is finished after the siege of terror, will that be it? As in no more HH stories at all, ever? 
Or will there then be the opportunity to go back to any point in the Heresy and write further stories?

For example in the fantastic Forge World Betrayal book, there are a lot of things introduced in the background section that I would love to read about in BL fiction. The Mechanicum Thallax or what happened aboard the Sunstone for example. Or other stories such as how did Macer Varren escape from Angron etc. 

I personally think it would be sad for the door to close completely on the series once the siege has been and the big guy is in the big chair, in a mess. I also think some parts of the saga need your expert touch just to bring them up to the level of excellence that you can provide. 

I know you may no be able to discuss this here but if not maybe somebody can ask at the weekender. Ta


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Wait. What _do _we know about Blood in the Water?


That it's a Blood Angel-short story, or a short story with a Blood Angel as the main-character! 



mal310 said:


> For example in the fantastic Forge World Betrayal book, there are a lot of things introduced in the background section that I would love to read about in BL fiction. The Mechanicum Thallax or what happened aboard the Sunstone for example. Or other stories such as how did Macer Varren escape from Angron etc.


That is covered in _Garro: Sword of Truth_ and particially in _Garro: Legion of One_ audio dramas and which later might be potentially upcoming short stories in a future anthoogy.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Sure, though it's not as juicy as it sounds. First, you've got to remember I joined pretty late. _Legion_ had just been released, which is Book 8, I think. So a lot of the groundbreaking stuff and first glimpses of truly awe-inspiring 30K moments were already done.
> 
> I went to my first Horus Heresy meeting wanting to pitch for a novel about the Space Wolves on Prospero, but in my first meeting I learned that there were already expansive plans in that direction, and my editors noted aside that several factions were reserved based on authors' 40K work and intention to eventually tell those stories. Now, I didn't know Jim, Dan and Graham well then, so whereas now we'd chat about it and shoot the shit over someone really wanting to do something, back then, it was a matter of being told not to pitch for things those guys had reserved. I was the new guy, and so that made a lot of sense.
> 
> ...


Does someone have the Imperial Fists locked down? It seems they randomly appear in books but as of yet there's not been one based solely on them, apart from _The Lightning Tower_ and a short about Sigismund's Choice.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Nightfall. It's got to be more about Sevatar. Could not really care less about the Custodes, to be fair.

Sevatar is pretty much who everyone wishes they were.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Sevatar is pretty much who everyone wishes they were.


A dangerous, reckless, irreverent, sociopathic insomniac??


LotN


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Dead.Blue.Clown said:


> Sure, though it's not as juicy as it sounds. First, you've got to remember I joined pretty late. _Legion_ had just been released, which is Book 8, I think. So a lot of the groundbreaking stuff and first glimpses of truly awe-inspiring 30K moments were already done.
> 
> I went to my first Horus Heresy meeting wanting to pitch for a novel about the Space Wolves on Prospero, but in my first meeting I learned that there were already expansive plans in that direction, and my editors noted aside that several factions were reserved based on authors' 40K work and intention to eventually tell those stories. Now, I didn't know Jim, Dan and Graham well then, so whereas now we'd chat about it and shoot the shit over someone really wanting to do something, back then, it was a matter of being told not to pitch for things those guys had reserved. I was the new guy, and so that made a lot of sense.
> 
> ...


Awesome bit of info there, cheers. Always good to here first hand from the authors how things go down. Much appreciated how you come on here and post, I know you've said before why others don't and with good reason, but it is quite cool having one of the Heresy team give us some gen every so often.

If you are still knocking about on this thread though. Don't suppose your allowed to say(or even want to) if Amon, might make an appearance in _Master of Mankind_?


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Khorne's Fist said:
> 
> 
> > And not an Astartes in sight. Excellent.
> ...


I was referring to the prospect of a book about the war in the webway. Where there shouldn't be an Astartes in sight. Never heard of _Blood in the Water_ until you mentioned it.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Khorne's Fist said:


> I was referring to the prospect of a book about the war in the webway. Where there shouldn't be an Astartes in sight. Never heard of _Blood in the Water_ until you mentioned it.


I know. 

_Blood in the Water_ is a short story set as a prequel to _Master of Mankind_ with a Blood Angel as the main character. Presumably this Blood Angel will also feature in _Master of Mankind_, perhaps being involved in the Secret War.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Khorne's Fist said:


> I was referring to the prospect of a book about the war in the webway. Where there shouldn't be an Astartes in sight. Never heard of _Blood in the Water_ until you mentioned it.


What he's getting at is, apparently the Blood Angel character getting introduced in _Blood in the Water_ is going to feature heavily in _Master of Mankind_, if not be the main character.


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## Isthar (Feb 13, 2008)

Was confirmed that _Master of Mankind_ is about the Emperor?? If _Blood in the Water_ is a prequel to MoM won't be the novel about..Sanguinius and his new status quo as "Master of Mankind" after what we could see in the cover of _Unremembered Empire_?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Lord of the Night said:


> A dangerous, reckless, irreverent, sociopathic insomniac??
> 
> 
> LotN


Yup. I just need to beat the whole sleeping thing.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Isthar said:


> Was confirmed that _Master of Mankind_ is about the Emperor?? If _Blood in the Water_ is a prequel to MoM won't be the novel about..Sanguinius and his new status quo as "Master of Mankind" after what we could see in the cover of _Unremembered Empire_?


Yes. The title _Master of Mankind_ definitely refers to the Emperor.

Wouldn't really make much sense if that epithet was referring to Sanguinius, because well, he wasn't the Master of Mankind.


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## Isthar (Feb 13, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Yes. The title _Master of Mankind_ definitely refers to the Emperor.
> 
> Wouldn't really make much sense if that epithet was referring to Sanguinius, because well, he wasn't the Master of Mankind.


Yes but remember that A-D-B usually plays with the title (First Heretic, Betrayer) and maybe it isn't what it seems. If what we know about Unremembered Empire is true, Sanguinius was given the title of "Emperor" of that second empire by Guilliman, in the belief that Terra and the big E were already gone, and Sang was the best guy to bear it. So it could be after all.


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## Khyzer (Dec 22, 2012)

Isthar said:


> Yes but remember that A-D-B usually plays with the title (First Heretic, Betrayer) and maybe it isn't what it seems. If what we know about Unremembered Empire is true, Sanguinius was given the title of "Emperor" of that second empire by Guilliman, in the belief that Terra and the big E were already gone, and Sang was the best guy to bear it. So it could be after all.


Well the way ADB was naming his books was an epithet for how each traitor protagonist Primarch viewed the Emperor. Lorgar viewed the Emperor as "_The First Heretic_" because both denied his own godhood, then denied the existence of other gods. Then Angron viewed him as a "_Betrayer_" for denying him his death with his brothers and sisters upon Nuceria. And seeing as how this novel is from the point of view of loyalists I think "_Master of Mankind_" is simply how everyone has, and will always, view the Emperor.



Isthar said:


> Was confirmed that _Master of Mankind_ is about the Emperor?? If _Blood in the Water_ is a prequel to MoM won't be the novel about..Sanguinius and his new status quo as "Master of Mankind" after what we could see in the cover of _Unremembered Empire_?



And so far all we have been able to gleam about "_Unremembered Empire_" is that Guilliman is attempting to set up an Imperium Secundus (example: his own astronomican beacon) and views Sanguinius as the Primarch that has the nobility, humanity, etc to properly rule mankind over all other surviving Primarchs. From the cover we can see that Sanguinius likely does not agree with this sentiment, nor does several of the space marine legionaries present by the look of their stances to Sanguinius's arm being raised. (Neil Roberts commented on the cover art saying Ultramarines, Blood Angels, White Scars, Space Wolves, and one other unrevealed legion is present in the background of the cover art, and by the end of "_Crimson Fist_" it seems likely the Fleet of Imperial Fists will be present as well so maybe this is who he was alluding towards) Sanguinius likely goes along with the plan at first but then realizes the error's of his ways, finds a way past Lorgar's trap (example: the mysterious cabal or that immensly strong psyker/device El'Jonson has) and takes his Blood Angels to the defense of Terra. Hence his presence yet not Guilliman's at the siege fo Terra.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Isthar said:


> Yes but remember that A-D-B usually plays with the title (First Heretic, Betrayer) and maybe it isn't what it seems.


Aaron has already stated the title refers to the Emperor. There is no need for a discussion. 



Isthar said:


> If what we know about Unremembered Empire is true, Sanguinius was given the title of "Emperor" of that second empire by Guilliman, in the belief that Terra and the big E were already gone, and Sang was the best guy to bear it. So it could be after all.


As far as I am aware we don't know all that much concerning _Unremembered Empire_ yet. We don't know that Sanguinius will be lauded as Emperor by Guilliman.


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## gridge (Feb 11, 2012)

Personally, I think it's about time to learn a bit more about the Emperor and if it's true that it may include a Blood Angel character then I'm even more for ADB doing this one next. Blood Angels are my favorite Chapter and have been poorly handled thus far. If he would just take over BA and Death Guard I would be a happy man.


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## Captain_Daerys_Arrun (Jan 9, 2012)

The correct answer is he should write both books. Can the heresy suffer if ADB has an increased output, I think not.


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