# Abaddon vs. Emperor



## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

i earlier made a thread that said sanguinus, if he could give emperor a good fight, mostly everyone said emperor stomps

now what abou abaddon vs. the emperor

abaddon could probably take on pre-herasy horus, and maybe even chaos empowered horus.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Abaddon get annihilated. Without mercy.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

AhahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

He'd probably shoot himself for not killing the Emperor with a single attack.

On a more serious note:

1. He doesn't even have psychic powers
2. The only advantage he has are a few marks and a Daemon Weapon.
3. I dunno, he's largely bald? (Hair>>>>>>>Topknot)
4. He's nothing when compared to Horus. If Horus could stand toe-to-toe with him and end up dead anyway, what chance does a lesser being have?
5. He's not a Primarch.
6. He's not a Daemon Primarch.
7. He's not a Daemon Lord.
8. He couldn't take on pre-heresy Horus, let alone Uber-Chaos-Horus.
9. I don't know anymore, he's just a lucky idiot imo.

He'd get creamed faster than a busty Blonde at a porno shoot.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Weapon said:


> AhahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
> 
> He'd probably shoot himself for not killing the Emperor with a single attack.
> 
> ...


Very exactly. +rep


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

> Just for shits and giggles, I'm going to vote that he can beat the Emperor.
> 
> Let's see what happens.


I PURPOSELY MADE THIS COMMENT FOR THE PURPOSE OF AMUSEMENT AND BY NO MEANS BELIEVE THAT ABADDON, THE TRAITOR BASTARD COULD POSSIBLY REACH THE GREATNESS OF THE GOD-EMPEROR OF MANKIND.

I HAVE EDITED THIS POST OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND AM DEFINITELY NOT BEING HELD AT GUNPOINT BY THE INQUISITION WHICH DOES NOT EXIST.

BECAUSE IT IS FICTION.

CARRY ON CITIZENS.

BEST REGARDS,

WEAPON, OF THE HERESY ONLINE FORUMS.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

seriously? abbadon is terrible, hes just a plaything of the gods until they get bored. the real champion of the chaos gods, Horus, failed killing the emperor, so how would Abbadon seriously have a chance.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Remember the emperor is just a dying corpse, behind the terran defences the emperor is virtually as helpless as a newborn babe

as long as the gods give anyone psychic immunity they'll win, a flesh hound could win if they get past the custodies

Horus fought a healthy emperor, theres no way you could say you would get another epic match up, the emperor has been slowly dying ever since


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Abaddon with the Collar of Khorn PWN the Emperors Corpse. Better yet since the Emperor is dead he wins already.


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## mr_fallout (Apr 11, 2011)

Are we talking about before the Emperor was a living corpse or after? Simply because if it was current then Abbadon would kill him in one blow. If during the Horus Heresy Abby would obviously lose.


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## Fancyxeno21 (Sep 8, 2010)

imo the head custode could probably go toe to toe with abbadon


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> seriously? abbadon is terrible, hes just a plaything of the gods until they get bored. the real champion of the chaos gods, Horus, failed killing the emperor, so how would Abbadon seriously have a chance.


True. But we know that Vect would totally pwn them both right. At the same time? 


This is a flawed question. Abaddon is an in game character with in game rules. Meaning he COULDN'T possibly be on that level. In the same way Dante or Calgar can't be. They were made for the game. Not to flesh out background. So obviously they aren't insanely awesome and able to pwn everything.

Unless your Vect, of course.


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## mr_fallout (Apr 11, 2011)

Fancyxeno21 said:


> imo the head custode could probably go toe to toe with abbadon


Considering the fact that possessed marines could tear through regular custodes with only 2 losses I say Abby Could kick the head custodes ass.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

How the hell do we know what the Emperor could do on his throne? He is constantly beating the living crap out of the warp (and probably keepin Draigo alive), protecting humanity and all. So for all the fuck we know he might just for a second divert his attention to Abaddon and the traitor goes boom.


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## Fancyxeno21 (Sep 8, 2010)

mr_fallout said:


> Considering the fact that possessed marines could tear through regular custodes with only 2 losses I say Abby Could kick the head custodes ass.


my mistake then :headbutt:


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

The emperor in his prime could have taken abbadon down without breaking stride.

Even now without the custodes he is not defenceless. He 'eats' 100s of psykers a day just to maintain the beacon. Astropaths die when brought before him. Im pretty certain he could take any of the named characters in the game even while strapped into his golden potty.

Unless it was written by ward, in which case that new uber grot can kill them emperor with 1 arm tied behind his back.


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

The emperor could beat anyone in single combat, Khorne included. There is a reason why all of the chaos gods said "oh s***, F*** this" and ditched Horus when the emperor was about to mind rape him


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

mr_fallout said:


> Considering the fact that possessed marines could tear through regular custodes with only 2 losses I say Abby Could kick the head custodes ass.


 
No, the three Custodians killed six of the Gal Vorbak. Spoilers for The First Heretic below:



After Corax was done with them, only eleven of the Gal Vorbak were still alive. Then they chase after the Custodes, and after Aquillon and Nirallus had been killed it says "Six of the Gal Vorbak still drew breath" And then Sythran goes on to kill Xaphen.


Aquillion and his brothers weren't ever said to be exceptionally better than the a average Custodes, they were also it would seem alot younger than the likes of Valdor and Amon (Amon having trained Vendetha and Aquillon). And also bear in mind Valdor the Captain-General of the Custodian Guard was said to have beaten Horus in a duel before. Don't underestimate the Custodes.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

WELL OF COURSE HE CAN KILL THEM EMP!
The emp is nothing more than a psykic corpse on a golden toilet......
But I think you meant the emp when he was walking around.......well pretty much this.


Weapon said:


> He'd get creamed faster than a busty Blonde at a porno shoot.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

locustgate said:


> WELL OF COURSE HE CAN KILL THEM EMP!
> The emp is nothing more than a psykic corpse on a golden toilet......


I beg to differ...



maidel said:


> Even now without the custodes he is not defenceless. He 'eats' 100s of psykers a day just to maintain the beacon. Astropaths die when brought before him. Im pretty certain he could take any of the named characters in the game even while strapped into his golden potty.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

im talking walking around emperor.. when he was in his prime



also do you think pre-heresy horus could beat abaddon


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Emperorguard500 said:


> im talking walking around emperor.. when he was in his prime
> 
> 
> 
> also do you think pre-heresy horus could beat abaddon


Is the sky blue? 


But seriously - ANY of the primarches could kill ANY of the marines - that includes draigo, calgar, memphiston - any of them, very easily.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Maidel said:


> I beg to differ...


Please go on how is it he can't pull the trigger on a bolt pistol and blow the emps head open, im talking if he managed to get pass all the security, of course he can't kill the emp from the eye of terror....like some "Wanted" rip off. He would be killed by the sudden release of energy from his death, at best reduced to a even more drooling rtard.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

locustgate said:


> Please go on how is it he can't pull the trigger on a bolt pistol and blow the emps head open, im talking if he managed to get pass all the security, of course he can't kill the emp from the eye of terror....like some "Wanted" rip off. He would be killed by the sudden release of energy from his death, at best reduced to a even more drooling rtard.


Because the emperor is still the most powerful psyker in existance. He litterally kills 100s of people every single day - he feeds on them.

He doesnt do this by getting of his throne and using a knife and fork - he drains them psychicly.

Abbaddon wouldnt make it past the throne room door.


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## jd579 (May 8, 2010)

Remembering of course a primarch is to an Astartes, what an Astartes is to a mortal so to even think Abbadon could waste Horus is a crazy notion, Horus would smack him down without even Breaking a sweat, and Horus corrupted by Chaos only had one match on ability which was the Emperor, and we know how that turned out.


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## LordLucan (Dec 9, 2009)

If Draco is still canon, the Emperor on his throne can also pause time in his throne room if he so chooses...


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Maidel said:


> But seriously - ANY of the primarches could kill ANY of the marines - that includes *draigo*, calgar, memphiston - any of them, very easily.


Who was it, Mortarion (?), that got his ass handed by Draigo?


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Doelago said:


> Who was it, Mortarion (?), that got his ass handed by Draigo?


Yup.

And the emperor would still win, even if I had to FORCE Ward to write it into the next codex. :grin:


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Doelago said:


> Who was it, Mortarion (?), that got his ass handed by Draigo?


Who was it..Mat Ward who wrote that? Your point is invalidated.


I said it before. This thread is a waste of time. Hey guys, can tactical sergeant B from squad 6 of the Ultramarines beat Calgar? I mean in that one book he did kill a Carnifex and all. 

Fuck no. Of course not. 

There be a reason that the Emperor, Primarchs, Chaos Gods, etc. are NOT IN THE GAME. Because they are just background. 

This wasn't a game made to match background. It was background made to match a game, and make it more interesting. In game characters can NEVER compare to those all powerful awesomes that lurk in the fluff.

Hence why Wards Draigo hardon is even more ludicrous.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

JelloSea said:


> The emperor could beat anyone in single combat, Khorne included. There is a reason why all of the chaos gods said "oh s***, F*** this" and ditched Horus when the emperor was about to mind rape him


Khorne included? Lol. 

As for the original topic, whilst I don't necessarily disagree with what anyone has said, I think several people are underestimating Abaddon. He is the Warmaster of Chaos, favoured of the Four, blessed and corrupted beyond comprehension. He also bears one of the most powerful weapons in 40k lore.

Could he destory the Emperor? Most likely not. 

Could he challenge pre-Heresy Horus? I personally think it would be much closer than some of you are making out. Theres already a thread on that though by the way which some may find interesting (link).



Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> There be a reason that the Emperor, Primarchs, Chaos Gods, etc. are NOT IN THE GAME. Because they are just background.


Angron does have official _Apoc_ rules though.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

isn't Abaddon a clone of Horus anyways....??


and there was a thread along time ago, abaddon vs. pre-heresy horus.. and most people said abaddon would win


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

I have a strong feeling of..."your an idiot" for people that think Abby is weak. He is the blessed of the four most powerful hmm.."Things" in existance, can call upon the might of countless thousands of Chaos Space Marines and Daemons, an insanely powerful fleet, He isn't the Warmaster because he cried and got pissed off when Horus died. He is the Warmaster because of his might, his intelligence and tactical ability. If he wasn't confined to the eye of terror. How much damage could he cause? 

The Imperium is barely holding the 13th Crusade back. And they have to all intents and purposes a choke point. So Abby can't bring all he has to bear. If he was able to unleash everything he has at his disposal, I would say no Current force in the galaxy could oppose him.


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

Emperorguard500 said:


> isn't Abaddon a clone of Horus anyways....??
> 
> 
> and there was a thread along time ago, abaddon vs. pre-heresy horus.. and most people said abaddon would win


The first is just a rumor.
I think Little Horus (Called so because he looked so much like Horus and was short) was rumored to be a clone too.
I really wouldn't look too much into that one...

And the second point you made is just opinions, just like the ones we're giving you now.
They could easily be wrong and in my opinion, they are.
An opinion can't be wrong, because they aren't facts. 
They can be misguided or incorrectly informed but not wrong.

Case in point, the guy who thinks that the Emperor could beat the strongest of the Chaos gods in combat.

Yeah, I don't think so.


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## Scholtae (Aug 16, 2010)

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> I have a strong feeling of..."your an idiot" for people that think Abby is weak. He is the blessed of the four most powerful hmm.."Things" in existance, can call upon the might of countless thousands of Chaos Space Marines and Daemons, an insanely powerful fleet, He isn't the Warmaster because he cried and got pissed off when Horus died. He is the Warmaster because of his might, his intelligence and tactical ability. If he wasn't confined to the eye of terror. How much damage could he cause?
> 
> The Imperium is barely holding the 13th Crusade back. And they have to all intents and purposes a choke point. So Abby can't bring all he has to bear. If he was able to unleash everything he has at his disposal, I would say no Current force in the galaxy could oppose him.


Necrons, Eldar Craftworlds in one big fleet), the Ork race, A few of the Hive fleets, Calgar and Draigo ((on their own) jokes:biggrin::biggrin could all defeat abbadon if he got loose from the eye.

He is warmaster because he is the highest ranking surviving member of the Sons of Horus and an opportunist.


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## mr_fallout (Apr 11, 2011)

Angel of Blood said:


> No, the three Custodians killed six of the Gal Vorbak. Spoilers for The First Heretic below:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My bad I guess I read wrong when I read it but on that the Gal Vorbak were at a disadvantage due to their blood lust which consumed them to where all they thought about was killing and in that they didn't think tactically as to stay moving. Abby wouldn't have that problem and he's also said so have power equivalent to that of Horus' and in that could possibly beat the custodes. Although we'll never truly know unless a story is written about it.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Scholtae said:


> Necrons, Eldar Craftworlds in one big fleet), the Ork race, A few of the Hive fleets, Calgar and Draigo ((on their own) jokes:biggrin::biggrin could all defeat abbadon if he got loose from the eye.
> 
> He is warmaster because he is the highest ranking surviving member of the Sons of Horus and an opportunist.



Sorry, but no. Perhaps I should have been more clear, didn't expect people would create moronic scenarios. 

I did NOT say he would wipe out every single ork. I am saying the orks, could not oppose him. Nor could the Eldar. He could easily wipe a hive fleet from existence. A garrisoned imperial world can hold one off. But the chaos Legions can't beat one? Bullshit. 

The Space Marines, unified perhaps, as in every single chapter together, could fight him, not win. But be a problem. As for the Necrons, I would say that if he knew when and where they were awakening he could easily deal with a tomb world awakening. 

It is said ALL the time, that chaos forces are forever trying to usurp each other. How then, has he remained in such a lofty position, for 10 000 years. Do tell. As Warsmiths, Lord, Generals, and Champions come and go. Only Abaddon has endured longer than all. (barring the Daemon Primarchs of course) Do tell how any opportunist would last. The chaos God's don't care about his ambition, or if it was him ,or Horus' Janitor that assumed leadership. 

It was and still is, his _ability_ that mark him as great.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Sorry, lots of little bits I want to deal with:



Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> Sorry, but no. Perhaps I should have been more clear, didn't expect people would create moronic scenarios.


HAHA - its a forum for nerds and geeks - what else did you expect :headbutt:



> I did NOT say he would wipe out every single ork. I am saying the orks, could not oppose him. Nor could the Eldar. He could easily wipe a hive fleet from existence. A garrisoned imperial world can hold one off. But the chaos Legions can't beat one? Bullshit.


This is the problem with the fluff and UBERNESS. Depending upon its source things are more or less powerful. Read the Marines codex and the avatar can be beaten by and old man with 2 boxing gloves. Read the eldar codex and the avatar eats greater daemons for snacks. 

However, NOTHING has easily beaten a hive fleet.



> The Space Marines, unified perhaps, as in every single chapter together, could fight him, not win. But be a problem. As for the Necrons, I would say that if he knew when and where they were awakening he could easily deal with a tomb world awakening.


Why on earth do you think that? He doesnt have all the old legions, anyway they were shattered for the most part on the flight back to the eye (or before hand). He has the reminants of the sons of horus, and lots of other warbands, but far far far away from a pre-hersey legion.



> It is said ALL the time, that chaos forces are forever trying to usurp each other. How then, has he remained in such a lofty position, for 10 000 years. Do tell. As Warsmiths, Lord, Generals, and Champions come and go. Only Abaddon has endured longer than all. (barring the Daemon Primarchs of course) Do tell how any opportunist would last. The chaos God's don't care about his ambition, or if it was him ,or Horus' Janitor that assumed leadership.


You forget - time runs differently in the eye - for them, its been a lot shorter time than 10,000 years.



> It was and still is, his _ability_ that mark him as great


Really - hes lead how many 'black' crusades - and hes won how many of them?


And finally - this has what exactly to do with if he could beat the emperor one on one in combat?


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

The Black Crusade arguement is old. 

The Legions are not what they once were in numbers. But have only grown in expertise. They call upon legions of mutants and Daemons. More than Equals the Million Space Marines there are. 

I at no point said he would easily beat a hive fleet. I said he *could*. And I fail to see how Calgar beating the Avatar in single combat has anything to do with Abaddon's expertise as a general and tactician.

Also, in regards to how time flows in the eye, 10 000 years, or 10, he has still outlasted the others. You failed to address that.


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> The Black Crusade arguement is old.


Just because its old doesnt mean it has any less value.



> The Legions are not what they once were in numbers. But have only grown in expertise. They call upon legions of mutants and Daemons. More than Equals the Million Space Marines there are.


The problem is those daemons dont do too well outside of the eye, they are weaker and tend to fade away. Those mutants may well be numerous - but you have to get them their in the first place. Whereas each marine chapter also brings a small-medium fleet, Horus would struggle to bring enough ships to bring those legions of raging nutters to battle.
Also, the game rules would argue that the chaos legions havent learnt much seeing as how their stats are the same (give or take) as a normal marine...



> I at no point said he would easily beat a hive fleet. I said he *could*.


Im sorry, I even quoted you - He could *easily* wipe a hive fleet from existence. - Im not putting words in your mouth - thats from your own post for goodness sake.



> And I fail to see how Calgar beating the Avatar in single combat has anything to do with Abaddon's expertise as a general and tactician.


It was meant to be a continuation of explaining how beating a hive fleet is easy/hard depending on which book you read. Read an imperial or eldar codex and they will be killing carifexies with their bare hands. Read the nids book and look at the list of plants a hive fleet over runs and it begins to get more scary. In a chaos codex, abbadon is truely evil and hard and kicks arse - a marine codex effectively laughs at him.



> Also, in regards to how time flows in the eye, 10 000 years, or 10, he has still outlasted the others. You failed to address that.


Ive never said hes not 'hard' - but who is his competition? The likely candidates in terms of power dont give a monkeys about running a campaign. EG - Khann just wants to kill, im sure he would try and kill abbadon given the right circunstances, but hes certainly not out to get his job. Same goes for arhiman, hes far too busy trying to sort out the mess he made of his chapter. lucius is well, far to busy corpse jumping and pretending hes good at fighting to go for his position.

Also, given the chaos imbued powers he has, anyone short of a daemon primarch isnt going to have a hope in hell of beating him - so why bother?

Doesnt mean hes any match for a primarch/emperor tho.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Regarding the Tyranids, my mistake, I did not realise I had said that. My point still stands that he would have the capability. 

Regarding Loyal Marines, I would argue that Marines have the same problem of organising their number. So...

There are plenty of other Warlods of varying power levels within the eye. I didn't say anyone is out to get it. I said "why does he still have it" You cannot really be trying to say none of any of the chaos marines desire his level of power? 

Also, there are plenty of sources citing Chaos Space Marine as more experienced. A space Wolf novel (yes, good guys were the antagonists) got spanked by night lords.

Any other source I can think of at the moment will have you shit all over it. becuase it was a chaos novel/codex. 

If you want to count Stat blocks, what of the last codex, where I could give my units veteran skills?


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## Maidel (Jun 28, 2009)

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> Regarding the Tyranids, my mistake, I did not realise I had said that. My point still stands that he would have the capability.


If the nids came into the Eye - he would wipe the floor with them no doubt.




> Regarding Loyal Marines, I would argue that Marines have the same problem of organising their number. So...


How do you argue that? Each marine chapter has its own battle fleet that can transport itself and its supplies - therefore there are no issues with getting marines to one place all at the same time. What would limit it is that they are needed in other places and thus getting them all together at the same time is difficult. 

Abbadons issue is far harder to solve - he has masses of 'crap' troops - all those mutants and human renegades. Sure, in numbers they are a match for anyone - but you need huge numbers of ships to transport them - thats the issue. Whereas 1000 marine chapters need (and have) 5-20 ships apiece, abbadon would need 10x that number to transport all the 'cannon' fodder he needs.



> There are plenty of other Warlods of varying power levels within the eye. I didn't say anyone is out to get it. I said "why does he still have it" You cannot really be trying to say none of any of the chaos marines desire his level of power?


Many orks desire Ghazghkulls level of power - but hes just that much more powerful than the other bosses that they cant challenge him.

Again, for I think the third time - Abbaddon is HARD - hes chaos fuelled, and he wasnt weak to begin with - this DOES NOT mean hes as powerful as a primarch.



> Also, there are plenty of sources citing Chaos Space Marine as more experienced. A space Wolf novel (yes, good guys were the antagonists) got spanked by night lords.
> 
> Any other source I can think of at the moment will have you shit all over it. becuase it was a chaos novel/codex.
> 
> If you want to count Stat blocks, what of the last codex, where I could give my units veteran skills?


It doesnt matter who wrote it - people are as powerful as a writer needs them to be for that event. 

From everything we know about chaos marines - give or take they are on a par with a normal marine in terms of power. Many chaos marines are 'mutants' - eg thousand sons, possessed, death guard - all of which are more powerful than a 'standard' marine for various reasons - but they arent more powerful 'across the board'. This is no different to taking a marine terminator and saying 'all marines are harder than chaos space marines - look at how hard that terminator is.' In general terms they are all about the same.
The only 'marines' which are specifically stated as being 'more powerful in general' are the 13th company space wolves, who were all given the stats of veterans (wolf guard) - but no other marine/chaos marine has even been put in that light.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Maidel said:


> He has the reminants of the sons of horus, and lots of other warbands, but far far far away from a pre-hersey legion.


On this note, I would argue that the Black Legion as it stands (as a loose coalition made up of countless warbands) is probably actually larger than several pre-Heresy Legions. We know that the Black Legion currently outnumbers the entire Word Bearers Legion by about 10:1 (based on _Dark Creed_). So even assuming the Word Bearers Legion now only numbers 10,000 (which is I suppose is a realistic, yet conservative estimate given thats only a fraction of their pre-Heresy strength - it could much easily be quite a lot more numerous though), that makes the Black Legion strength at roughly 100,000 (although it could be many more). Which of course is about the same size as the pre-Heresy Legions (bar a few).




Maidel said:


> Really - hes lead how many 'black' crusades - and hes won how many of them?


Well considering we know next-to-nothing about most of Abaddon's 13 Black Crusades - IIRC the 1st, 12th and 13th are the only ones of his mentioned in the lore, and even then we only have extensive records on the 12th and 13th (the rest being Black Crusades led by other warlords or daemons and not one of Abaddon's 13) - therefore we cannot really judge any of them as failures. In the 1st Black Crusade he gained Drach'nyen, surely a success in and of itself? In the 12th he gained 2 Talismans of Vaul, and in the 13th he broke the Imperium's hold on the Cadian Gate. Doesn't sound much like a failure to me. Just because he hasn't burst into the Sol System and besieged Terra does not mean he has failed in his objectives.


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## v.rius (Apr 9, 2008)

is the emperor not currently a vegetable?


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## Weapon (Mar 5, 2009)

v.rius said:


> is the emperor not currently a vegetable?


Nah man.

Emperor's a fruit now.

On a more serious note, I recall there being a single cell left in his body, or something ridiculous like that.

To put it another way, he's not getting back up.


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

Why do we have so many of the VS threads popping up? even when its obvious who would win out of the two.
Pre-heresy: (I give you a clue, it begins with E)
Recent: the one that isn't a corpse sitting on the golden throne.


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