# Wtf flyers (The real meaning behind the teaser video "6")



## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

So what's to keep a player from say, taking 8 scythes with his Necrons or 9 Valks/Vendettas with IG, zoom off the table till turn 4-5, and then fly on and net easy kill points. With gunships you can just airdrop your vets onto objectives when needed. Since your opponent can only hit you on a 6, your army is virtually untouchable. 

Sadly, my SoB army has 0 options to beat a list like above save for purchasing a Bastion which has 1 bs2 auto-firing lascannon, which isn't enough to make an impact against 8-9 targets. Other armies are in the same boat. Small elite armies will be even harder pressed to defeat such a list.

It would seem the "6" referred to by the teaser video really means the dice roll you need to get in order to win in the new edition.
:russianroulette:


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Arcane said:


> So what's to keep a player from say, taking 8 scythes with his Necrons or 9 Valks/Vendettas with IG, zoom off the table till turn 4-5, and then fly on and net easy kill points. With gunships you can just airdrop your vets onto objectives when needed. Since your opponent can only hit you on a 6, your army is virtually untouchable.
> 
> Sadly, my SoB army has 0 options to beat a list like above save for purchasing a Bastion which has 1 bs2 auto-firing lascannon, which isn't enough to make an impact against 8-9 targets. Other armies are in the same boat. Small elite armies will be even harder pressed to defeat such a list.
> 
> ...


Before we start ANOTHER thread full of assumptions wait for the damned FAQ first. For all we know Exorcists may get the Skyfire rule.

Infact there is a USR coming for models to shoot at fliers without penalities. If you're THAT heart broken ally in a Hydra Flak Cannon (and some Guard to hold Objectives for you) and get an Aegis Defense Line to put the Guard behind (and give the Guard Lascannons).

Hell the edition doesn't actually drop for four more days, can we at least wait until then before the crazy starts?

EDIT: From now on I'm going to mentally edit threads like these to read "Things are changing and I don't understand them, so they must be broken and I have to bitch about it." 

Crying about something that we don't have all the information on is stupid. You're wasting energy on something you don't even know works the way you think it does and may not even happen due to other things you didn't even notice. The world isn't going to end because 6th Edition changes mechanics, just like it didn't when 5th changed some mechanics.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Actually, this is the kind of stuff my buddy and I talk about while at work making deliveries. I'm not bitching and moaning, we just chat about this to make the day go by faster and entertain ourselves. We have a lot of fun imaging dog fighting between our two flyer armies. 

Anyway, you and I both know GW would be hard pressed to release an FAQ regarding the SoB units. Hell, the FAQ for the current "codex" only has a few sentences and where's the pdf for that "codex" anyhow? If any units are specifically touched on from the SoB in a GW 6th ed FAQ/Errata I will be astonished. 

Finally, of course you can ally in IG. I used to do this all the time with the old WH codex. But the fact is, you shouldn't _*have*_ to. If I want to play SoB I should be able to just play them without having to get help from some other codex period.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Arcane said:


> Actually, this is the kind of stuff my buddy and I talk about while at work making deliveries. I'm not bitching and moaning, we just chat about this to make the day go by faster and entertain ourselves. We have a lot of fun imaging dog fighting between our two flyer armies.
> 
> Anyway, you and I both know GW would be hard pressed to release an FAQ regarding the SoB units. Hell, the FAQ for the current "codex" only has a few sentences and where's the pdf for that "codex" anyhow? If any units are specifically touched on from the SoB in a GW 6th ed FAQ/Errata I will be astonished.
> 
> Finally, of course you can ally in IG. I used to do this all the time with the old WH codex. But the fact is, you shouldn't _*have*_ to. If I want to play SoB I should be able to just play them without having to get help from some other codex period.


It may be what you and your body talk about while at work, but when a person is going off the written word voice tends to get muddled. Add in the only contextual clue being a lot of apparently complaints and a smilie playing Russian Roulette and it looks like we have another thread dedicated to bitching about the new rules we don't even have yet.

GW is FAQing every army come 6th. There is just too much changing to not do it. Now what Sisters get, I don't know, but can we REALLY stop hating on our own army until we KNOW what we're getting for them? Hell, one of the biggest parts of my consideration to look at starting another army is that I'm tired of associating my army with every single person who wants to cry about how Sisters are getting squatted, how much they suck, how much GW hates them, ect.

The codex currently comes out of two OOP magazines. We could use all the help we can get at the moment. Should ANY army be in this situation? No, not really, but the ability to increase our effective range and add bodies to the objective holding side of the house is a tactic that's hard to say "no" to. Heck it could lead to Repentia preforming "Grand Theft Chimera" instead of Rhino. Less to keep them from running around willy-nilly about the board and more to give them some protection as they move about the board.


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## Capussa (Jun 22, 2012)

for the release of the latest Warhammer they had an errata ready for each army and uploaded at release, they will do the same for 40k, also FW have removed all of their 40k pdfs and I suspect that they will do the same upon release.

As there are several changes some army lists will work better and some will not work in 6th but the fun will be in finding out


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## misfratz (Feb 9, 2012)

Arcane said:


> It would seem the "6" referred to by the teaser video really means the dice roll you need to get in order to win in the new edition.


This is really very clever by GW. They disguised the true meaning of this by writing the "6" in Roman numerals as "VI", but if you write it in the Arabic numerals as "6", then you can see that by turning it upside down one gets "9" - this is a clear reference to the nine Ringwraiths in the Lord of the Rings, and a sign that GW intends to force everyone to play their new Hobbit game by making 40K unplayable.

Why else would they have released the new flyer models before it became clear how they were going to ruin our beloved game?

More seriously, I have no idea how the scenario you envisage can be avoided, except insofar as such a game will be over quickly, the two players can agree that it was very silly, and have a new game where both sides agree to avoid doing anything so daft.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

I would be bet each codex will have at least one unit with Skyfire after the errata/faq


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## Magpie_Oz (Jan 16, 2012)

Who's with me in guessing the SM missile launcher will get an AA homing missile?


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

scscofield said:


> I would be bet each codex will have at least one unit with Skyfire after the errata/faq


This is what I'm thinking.



Zion said:


> Before we start ANOTHER thread full of assumptions wait for the damned FAQ first. For all we know Exorcists may get the Skyfire rule.


This would be scary. But the Exorcist is the best and most logical choice if we're going by the "at lest one unit having Skyfire" theory. 



Magpie_Oz said:


> Who's with me in guessing the SM missile launcher will get an AA homing missile?


I'm thinking Dread's with two twin-linked Auto-Cannons _should_ get Skyfire... I mean they look like Walking Anti-Air Gun placements.


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## elmir (Apr 14, 2011)

Da Joka said:


> I'm thinking Dread's with two twin-linked Auto-Cannons _should_ get Skyfire... I mean they look like Walking Anti-Air Gun placements.


YES! Buff my poor underpowered psyfleman dreads a little more... k:


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## misfratz (Feb 9, 2012)

scscofield said:


> I would be bet each codex will have at least one unit with Skyfire after the errata/faq


I don't know, I'm not so sure about this.

For GW I could see that it would make a lot more sense to add specialist anti-aircraft units to armies than to errata existing units to be effective anti-aircraft options.

We have the rumours of Tau and Eldar aircraft being released in the near future, and between that, allies and fortifications, it's fairly easy for any army to access some effective anti-aircraft capability if they really want it. Add in some specialist anti-aircraft options like the Hydra Flak tank, Eldar Firestorm, et al, as Codices are redone, and I can see how it would work without adding an extra missile type to missile launchers, or whatever.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

misfratz said:


> I don't know, I'm not so sure about this.
> 
> For GW I could see that it would make a lot more sense to add specialist anti-aircraft units to armies than to errata existing units to be effective anti-aircraft options.
> 
> We have the rumours of Tau and Eldar aircraft being released in the near future, and between that, allies and fortifications, it's fairly easy for any army to access some effective anti-aircraft capability if they really want it. Add in some specialist anti-aircraft options like the Hydra Flak tank, Eldar Firestorm, et al, as Codices are redone, and I can see how it would work without adding an extra missile type to missile launchers, or whatever.


I think it can go either way honestly. Some armies are going to have better options than others, and some will likely get options that will have the Skyfire rule -now- but will lose it when the army gets updated.


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## Capussa (Jun 22, 2012)

Magpie_Oz said:


> Who's with me in guessing the SM missile launcher will get an AA homing missile?


It's more likely to be an option for the Whirlwind or dred, I don't think any army will get AA weapons for infantry


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Or they just tack Skyfire onto the Dev profiles.


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## misfratz (Feb 9, 2012)

scscofield said:


> Or they just tack Skyfire onto the Dev profiles.


Is it significant that in the scans of the rulebook we have seen there is a new weapon called an "Icarus pattern Lascannon" that has the Skyfire rule, whereas the normal lascannon does not?

It suggests to me that GW intend to keep the skyfire rule fairly exclusive, at least at first. Also the skyfire rule is perhaps something to do with weapons, rather than with units.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

If psyrifle dreads get skyfire I'm going to flip.


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## the_barwn (Jul 23, 2011)

hmm, that would be a useful addition to a war walker squadron skyfire, 24 shots with scatter lasers anyone? 

But, yes I could see buying different versions of heavy weapons teams allowed skyfire being an option though.....


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

1) The WDDex for Sisters (my army now for over 13 years) was written with a completed set of 6th rules in hand. They could not put 6th terminology in it though, as that would cause massive confusion.

2) There is no PDF, as releasing it only to have to change it all a few months later is a waste of their very limited time. Much better to put that time into writing a full PDF you can put out just after 6ths release that has all the right words and terminology in it. I know I'd rather have 1 PDF, than 2 white dwarfs and an errata.
Note: I am not saying there *is* a PDF here. I'm saying what is most likely from experience.

3) At present, *no-one* can handle the rumoured fliers as *no-one* has Skyfire. 

4) You have no idea how burnt out Games Dev are right now. Give them a bloody break.

It's wednesday today. There's less than 3 days to wait til the rulebook comes out. Then, and only then, will the complaining be justified.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

No complaints here, will be suprised if a shoulder mounted missile launcher does not have the ability to shoot air targets though.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

misfratz said:


> ...an "Icarus pattern Lascannon" that has the Skyfire rule, whereas the normal lascannon does not?


One of the little videos on the GW site mentions looting one of these if you find them,which suggests they are a lascannon mounted in terrain/fortifications rather than a type of lascannon.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Normal lascannons are for destroying tanks. It requires a different setup to take out airborne targets, which is why we're likely to see multiple-shot weapons like the flak cannon, and missile launchers get it, if anything...


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

misfratz said:


> Is it significant that in the scans of the rulebook we have seen there is a new weapon called an "Icarus pattern Lascannon" that has the Skyfire rule, whereas the normal lascannon does not?
> 
> It suggests to me that GW intend to keep the skyfire rule fairly exclusive, at least at first. Also the skyfire rule is perhaps something to do with weapons, rather than with units.





Dave T Hobbit said:


> One of the little videos on the GW site mentions looting one of these if you find them,which suggests they are a lascannon mounted in terrain/fortifications rather than a type of lascannon.


The Icarus Pattern Lascannon is the anti-air lascannon which goes on top of the Bastion. I think you can also get them free standing, possibly with the Ageis Defence line. It's not the Lascannon that's different, but rather the fact that it's basically on an anti-air mount. I think that Sky-fire will be restricted to pintle mounted guns, and just a few units where it makes sense (hydra flak tanks, for example). I don't see it coming even as a general rule for missile launchers, or other heavy weapons.










The Land Raider might be able to get glanced to death now, but on the other hand, it can get a pintle mounted multi-melta, which would probably be extremely effective at air defence. Other forces... well, you can take allies, or buy bastions now. I think I see the glimmers of 8th ed fantasy in this release, not that it's becoming fantasy, but that they seem intent on making the game into an arms race so people have to buy more models...


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Zion said:


> It may be what you and your body talk about while at work, but when a person is going off the written word voice tends to get muddled. Add in the only contextual clue being a lot of apparently complaints and a smilie playing Russian Roulette and it looks like we have another thread dedicated to bitching about the new rules we don't even have yet.


It's up to you how you react. Rather than get defensive about a game when someone points out some possible flaws why not just post some contrary points? For any matter, as I said, this is something we do to pass the time and isn't serious business. I do feel bad for that smily though, if only someone could have stopped him!

Silvertabby, I agree with you and acknowledge you know more about the situation than most... however it hasn't been a few months like the Vampire Counts codex, it's been a year and still no sign. 

I sincerely hope that Skyfire gets added to many units in the game, but as has been pointed out, the Icarus Lascannon seems to imply Skyfire will be an exclusive ability to several rare weapons.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

On the subject of Missile Launchers having Skyfire - don't you think that'd be more suited to Hunter Killers? Much like I can see the Tau Skyray getting this rule (as well as maybe Markerlight bonuses).


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

@Arcane: actually, it's been 10 months since we got the complete list, and before that it was what, 9 years? I'm happier having the run-up to 6th having a compatible list I have some knowledge of how to use, than nothing until the day of release and having to work out a whole new dex and new rules at once. Which is what would have happened without the WDDex. 

I understand the frustration at no PDF version of the list, but lets be fair. We're in a minority. The list was available for us all to buy, and if it was missed there's not long to wait in the grand scheme of things. In the short span between Dex and now, how many people were realistically going to start an ancient, all-metal army? Not enough to warrant the extra work doing the PDF twice. 

It sucks mightily. But I can see why it was done. And believe you me, if there is just an errata and no PDF post 6th I'll be knocking on a certain door on everyone's behalf... :wink:


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

SilverTabby said:


> It sucks mightily. But I can see why it was done. And believe you me, if there is just an errata and no PDF post 6th I'll be knocking on a certain door on everyone's behalf... :wink:


Will said knocking be done with a Cricket Bat?


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Why use a cricket bat when I have real swords in the house? :wink:


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

SilverTabby said:


> Why use a cricket bat when I have real swords in the house? :wink:


Because he was makings a British Joke........

But on topic lets hope for very little AA... (my dark eldar LIKE LIVING)


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## misfratz (Feb 9, 2012)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> On the subject of Missile Launchers having Skyfire - don't you think that'd be more suited to Hunter Killers? Much like I can see the Tau Skyray getting this rule (as well as maybe Markerlight bonuses).


Hunter killer missiles? Yes I can see that.
Markerlights? I don't see how that would work.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

5th Ed - you must be able to deal with mechanise armies, ready to kill tanks or you lose

6th Ed - you must be able to deal with flyers, ready to kill flyers or you lose

New edition, new problem, same game


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Have an unconfirmed report from a friend that Missile Launchers will have the Skyfire ability or a way to use it. Certainly makes sense. :clapping:


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Arcane said:


> Have an unconfirmed report from a friend that Missile Launchers will have the Skyfire ability or a way to use it. Certainly makes sense. :clapping:


I saw a scanned page this morning for a "Flak Missile" that has Skyfire. No word who gets it.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Just read the FAQ; the winner for smallest file with nothing added? SoB!

Would like to take this moment to say, I told you so.

Looks like my SoB army is strictly for fun games from now on.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

I was rather surprised by the 1 page FAQ, but then ours is a tiny codex, written after the rules were completed. To be fair, having read the guard and nid ones, they are mostly rewordings and clarifications, and redefining what things are. Very few actual changes or additions.

I now have my rulebook, and will see what changes in there have made a difference to my armies. I may be some time...


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Have skimmed it and most of the FAQs and discussed it along with a friend. It seems that the only unit who has Skyfire are the Hydra Flak cannon, Icarus lascannon as well as a specific Tau suit who can still use his full BS while firing at flyers. Even though Flak missiles were introduced in the BRB, no specific units were given it's use in their FAQs, so even Devastator squads seem unable to shoot effectively at flyers. 

So my original question stands, what is to keep an army from running 3, 6 or even 9+ flyers and the opponent (SoB, Eldar, DA, SW, BT etc) from having no feasible answer outside of allies?


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## misfratz (Feb 9, 2012)

Arcane said:


> So my original question stands, what is to keep an army from running 3, 6 or even 9+ flyers and the opponent (SoB, Eldar, DA, SW, BT etc) from having no feasible answer outside of allies?


Eldar are rumoured to have a new flyer soon, quite apart from the Forge World options.

DA expect to have a codex released soon - one would expect something specifically anti-air and/or direct access to a flyer with that.

This leaves an imperial WD-dex and two Space Marine chapter variants, who will have to rely on a combination of allies, fortification and weight of fire to combat flyers for some time. I don't think it's so bad.


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

Arcane said:


> Have skimmed it and most of the FAQs and discussed it along with a friend. It seems that the only unit who has Skyfire are the Hydra Flak cannon, Icarus lascannon as well as a specific Tau suit who can still use his full BS while firing at flyers. Even though Flak missiles were introduced in the BRB, no specific units were given it's use in their FAQs, so even Devastator squads seem unable to shoot effectively at flyers.
> 
> So my original question stands, what is to keep an army from running 3, 6 or even 9+ flyers and the opponent (SoB, Eldar, DA, SW, BT etc) from having no feasible answer outside of allies?


It's not a Tau Suit, but Tau Seeker Missiles.

Ork's have Fliers of their own, or Lootas. -1 BS isn't that big of deal to them. Necron's only have their Fliers to counter other Fliers, same goes for DE, and Marines (minus SW, DA, BT) Tau have Seek Missiles, witch seem to always fire with BS5. Nids have Flying MCs, and so Do Demons. Chaos Marines don't have anything at all.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Chaos marines won't have nothing for long. Plus don't they have daemon princes?


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

SilverTabby said:


> Chaos marines won't have nothing for long. Plus don't they have daemon princes?


And Daemon Princes with wings are flying Monstrous Creatures and can Vector Strike flyers.


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## Daniel Harper (May 25, 2008)

Pg 415 BRB

Missile Launcher - Flakk Missile has Skyfire.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Daniel Harper said:


> Pg 415 BRB
> 
> Missile Launcher - Flakk Missile has Skyfire.


Yes, this has come up a few times. The Flakk Missile exists but currently no one has it.


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## Daniel Harper (May 25, 2008)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read it as any model that has a missile launcher has the flakk missile option.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Daniel Harper said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read it as any model that has a missile launcher has the flakk missile option.


Did you actually read it? "All missile Launchers come with Frag and Krak missiles as standard, and some have the option to UPGRADE to include flakk missiles."


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## Daniel Harper (May 25, 2008)

Forgive me, after just re-reading the book I see that is the case. I wouldn't object to my opponent using flakk missiles for the time being, but until then it does seem rather annoying.


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## Mokuren (Mar 29, 2011)

Arcane said:


> Just read the FAQ; the winner for smallest file with nothing added? SoB!
> 
> Would like to take this moment to say, I told you so.
> 
> Looks like my SoB army is strictly for fun games from now on.


Good thing this friend of mine has enough points of Chaos for two people to play at almost 2000 points level, and Chaos is getting an update pretty soon!

GW certainly won't see any of my money before Winter 2692, when they'll finally decide to pull out a new Codex and some models that won't cost me both arms and both legs just to fill _one basic vanilla troop choice_.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Mokuren said:


> Good thing this friend of mine has enough points of Chaos for two people to play at almost 2000 points level, and Chaos is getting an update pretty soon!
> 
> GW certainly won't see any of my money before Winter 2692, when they'll finally decide to pull out a new Codex and some models that won't cost me both arms and both legs just to fill _one basic vanilla troop choice_.


It's cheaper if you use someone else's arms and legs to purchase the models.


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## Keen4e (Apr 19, 2010)

Until things get clarified, I would be ashamed playing my vendettas as flyers, because their rules sound ridiculously over powered (at least on paper).


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Keen4e said:


> Until things get clarified, I would be ashamed playing my vendettas as flyers, because their rules sound ridiculously over powered (at least on paper).


It's all clarified in the rulebook and codex FAQs. I don't see what else needs to be clarified. As more books get updated we'll see more flyers, more Skyfire capable weapons and the balance will even out again. They're strong NOW but the edition just changed. In a year it's not going to be that big of a deal.


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## Mokuren (Mar 29, 2011)

Zion said:


> It's all clarified in the rulebook and codex FAQs. I don't see what else needs to be clarified. As more books get updated we'll see more flyers, more Skyfire capable weapons and the balance will even out again. They're strong NOW but the edition just changed. In a year it's not going to be that big of a deal.


Except for Sister players. And Orks. And Nid players. And- Well anyone that _doesn't_ get updated, really.

It's just edition creep going on top of codex creep, which to those that lag behind means even more sucking and _fun times_ being ineffective against the whole cool toys of the new edition. That they don't get.


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## Da Joka (Feb 20, 2009)

Zion said:


> And Daemon Princes with wings are flying Monstrous Creatures and can Vector Strike flyers.


Form what I see Only Daemon Princes form the Chaos Daemon Codex are actually Flying Monstrous Creatures...


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Mokuren said:


> Except for Sister players. And Orks. And Nid players. And- Well anyone that _doesn't_ get updated, really.
> 
> It's just edition creep going on top of codex creep, which to those that lag behind means even more sucking and _fun times_ being ineffective against the whole cool toys of the new edition. That they don't get.


More options equals crap then? Allies that let you supplement your army (like the Sisters could do before anyways, and many people had designed their armies around to do about a year ago anyways) again and shore up your weaknesses is a bad thing? 

Orks have Flyers, and snap-shotting Deff Guns is only marginally worse than their normal BS, so shooting at Flyers with a large number of bullets isn't a bad deal. Nids have Flying MCs who can Vector Strike Flyers.

I fail to see a valid arguement here. GW expands the options of the game, and even gives the new stuff rules that actually make sense and people complain. Then again I'm sure if you got a free puppy when you bought a GW product you'd have someone complain that they hate puppies.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Dog tastes good.


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