# Tyranid Rising Levithan - Vanguard: Formations



## Wookiepelt (Jan 29, 2013)

So... here are the new Vanguard formations:

*1. Lictor Forest Brood*
Formation - 1 Lictor Forest Brood consisting of 5 Lictors
Special Rule
Deadly Fruit: Shrouded instead of Stealth special rule and models can deploy within a Forest using the Infiltrate special rule and can be set up within 6" of an enemy model.

*2. Manufactorum Genestealers*
Formation - 5 Genestealer Broods
Formation Restriction - Manufactorum Genestealer Broods may not include additional Genestealers.
Special Rule
Hit & Run
Unsuspected: Models can deploy within a building or Ruins using the Infiltrate special rule and can be set up within 6" of an enemy model.

*3. Deathleaper's Assassin Brood*
Formation - Deathleaper & 5 Lictor Broods
Special Rule
Preferred Enemy (Character & Independent Character)
Paranoia & Ill Discipline: Enemy unit within 12" suffers -1 Leadership penalty.

*4. Broodlord's Hunting Pack*
Formation - 3 Genestealer Broods: One Genestealer Brood must include Broodlord. Only one Broodlord allowed in formation.
Special Rule
Hidden Beneath the City: Units arriving from Reserve can set up in unoccupied Building or set up in Ruins terrain as long as they are more than 6" away from enemy models.
Hunting Pack: Preferred Enemy special rule on a selected enemy unit by entire Formation when Broodlord is deployed.

*5. Gargoyle Bio-Bombs*
Formation - 3 Spore Mine Clusters and 3 Gargoyle Broods
Formation Restrictions - None
Special Rule
Wings of Death: If spore mine cluster starts a move (including Run & Charge) within 6" of Gargoyle unit, movement is 6" and does not halve the distance rolled for Run and Charge.

--- 
Unfortunately no sign of the Ymgarl Genestealers but the Broodlord's Hunting Pack has a cut-down version of the Dormant special rule.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Is there a restriction on the number of different formations you can take in a force? Or could you try and make the bulk of your force using them?


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## Wookiepelt (Jan 29, 2013)

None that I'm aware of... I guess so long as you comply with the 1 HQ & 2 Troops requirement!


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

In the Eldar Ghost Warriors Dataslate it has this to say.

"When you choose an army, you can take a Formation as a special form of Detachment. Unless otherwise stated, you can take any number of Formations in your army, and each is considered to be a completely separate Detachment, regardless of how many units make it up."

So, I'd say HQ + 2 Troops, then any amount of Formations you have the Points for.


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## Jdojo18 (May 8, 2012)

Looks like I was smart to model flamers on all of my vehicles


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Well, the Gargoyle Bio-Bomb one is really nice, but I can't see why anyone would want that many Lictors and Genestealers that have a couple of weird extra rules.


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## nevynxxx (Dec 27, 2011)

MidnightSun said:


> Well, the Gargoyle Bio-Bomb one is really nice, but I can't see why anyone would want that many Lictors and Genestealers that have a couple of weird extra rules.


I can see geanstealers that can setup within 6" of the enemy. Talk about insta-charge!


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

nevynxxx said:


> I can see geanstealers that can setup within 6" of the enemy. Talk about insta-charge!


MSU Genestealers in 6" range are dead Genestealers, as they can't charge on the first player turn and nobody in their right mind is going to let them live. 25 Genestealers isn't that hard to neutralise.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

What does MSU stand for?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

venomlust said:


> What does MSU stand for?


Many/Multiple Small Units. The Manufactorum Genestealers has to be 25 Genestealers in 5 squads of 5, making them practically scream 'I'M A KILL POINT! COME HERE, I'M FIRST BLOOD!', as well as being... well, simply not that great, even by Genestealer standards.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Gotcha, thanks. Well, maybe they'll be useful in... isolated situations? They have a 6+ though, don't they?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

venomlust said:


> Gotcha, thanks. Well, maybe they'll be useful in... isolated situations? They have a 6+ though, don't they?


T4, 5+, so they'll won't die to a single Marine. They'll come out badly against 5 Tactical Marines, but hey, what can you do?


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> MSU Genestealers in 6" range are dead Genestealers, as they can't charge on the first player turn and nobody in their right mind is going to let them live. 25 Genestealers isn't that hard to neutralise.


Why can't they charge on the first turn? (I don't run infiltrators as a general rule). I thought you couldn't charge from reserves...

And 5 units of 5 isn't as easy to completely wipe out as you think. Also, whilst you're doing that the rest of the army has gotten into charge range... :grin:


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## Pssyche (Mar 21, 2009)

Infiltrators and Scouts can't charge on the first PLAYER Turn (Rulebook USRs respectively).
They can Charge in the First Turn if they go second.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

SilverTabby said:


> And 5 units of 5 isn't as easy to completely wipe out as you think. Also, whilst you're doing that the rest of the army has gotten into charge range... :grin:


25 Orks in Rapid Fire range of your entire army is easy as hell to kill. And the 'rest of the army' is going to be substantially less than it would have been, because 25 Genestealers isn't cheap, especially for a non-Scoring distraction.

I wouldn't mind so much if Genestealers didn't rely on numbers, but since they do it's hard to make an argument for bringing a bunch of small squads in my opinion. 5 Genestealers charging isn't actually going to deal all that much damage to even a Devastator Squad or something.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

25 Orks is a different story to 25 Stealers. If you are talking marines, then yes there's no difference. If you are facing something like Guard with lasguns, then the odds change a lot. 

But that sort of thing is all subjective. I prefer Hormogaunts anyway :wink:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

For the purposes of wounds coming in, Genestealers are as tough as Orks is the point he was trying to make; slightly tougher thanks to the 5+; but against Tau, Marines, Eldar, Necrons, etc, who all have AP base weapons, they not only get 1 turn of shooting but an overwatch.

Throw on flamers, and you've just thrown away what, 400 points?


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I like the lictor forest brood. It has the potential to be devastating and hilarious. 

Everything else... could be better really.


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## Mokuren (Mar 29, 2011)

Vaz said:


> For the purposes of wounds coming in, Genestealers are as tough as Orks is the point he was trying to make; slightly tougher thanks to the 5+; but against Tau, Marines, Eldar, Necrons, etc, who all have AP base weapons, they not only get 1 turn of shooting but an overwatch.
> 
> Throw on flamers, and you've just thrown away what, 400 points?


400 and something, yes.

I'd rather spend that amount of points to throw in an inquisitorial detachment for a DCA deathstar on a land raider: I'd spend pretty much the same (likely more) for a scouting land raider and be assured that its occupants will mince anything they come in contact with. Granted, they'll be dead the moment after they do it and will do absolutely nothing if the land raider gets blown up, so it's a complete, utter and inexcusable waste of a huge chunk of points, but at least it _does something_ and kind of feels like an actual threat.

But 5 squads of 5 genestealers? It wouldn't stand a chance against my extremely subpar sisters, an actual army will just laugh, say "gg" and start putting away their models, counting the game as a turn 1 table wipe.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

The gargoyle bio-bomb thing is what I'm looking at, as it gives me extra fast attack for something I'd like to play with, but didn't have enough slots for, now I do. 

If the Manufactorium brood wasn't stopped from charging turn one it'd be totally worth it. Otherwise? Flamers for the total wipeout!


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## Veteran Sergeant (May 17, 2012)

Why is everyone talking about this detachment like it needs to be a death star? You probably need to use some tactics with it other than "run towards enemy, hope for the best". 

I mean, this _is_ 40K, but you _are_ allowed to use your brain when playing with it. 

I don't think this is a great formation, but it could be opening up some interesting game combos. I mean, it's expensive in a small-points game, but it's one hell of a distraction your opponent can't ignore, and it's dispersion into MSU means armies with fewer units in it will have a harder time taking them all out. Meanwhile the rest of your army is advancing unmolested.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Honestly, it might be very useful in "contest the objective" games, as the enemy HAS to get you off the objective. But the cost of 5 Genestealer units is quite a large whack of points for SOME limited advantages. Tau would certainly NOT like it. Genestealers in amongst them? TErrifying!


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Very interesting, via 40k War Zone:http://40kwarzone.blogspot.com/2014/01/tyranid-vanguard-dataslate-hilarity.html



> Here's something that Cyphus just messaged me about. It's pretty.....well.......hilarious.
> 
> Alright, so. The Tyranid Vanguard dataslate is pretty cool. I will draw your particular attention to the Broodlord's Hunting Pack. Look carefully at the formations deployment rules.
> 
> ...


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## Mokuren (Mar 29, 2011)

Veteran Sergeant said:


> Why is everyone talking about this detachment like it needs to be a death star? You probably need to use some tactics with it other than "run towards enemy, hope for the best".
> 
> I mean, this _is_ 40K, but you _are_ allowed to use your brain when playing with it.
> 
> I don't think this is a great formation, but it could be opening up some interesting game combos. I mean, it's expensive in a small-points game, but it's one hell of a distraction your opponent can't ignore, and it's dispersion into MSU means armies with fewer units in it will have a harder time taking them all out. Meanwhile the rest of your army is advancing unmolested.


Yes, you _are_ allowed to use your brain... And decide to not include this formation in your list.

Seriously, that's 90% of the "tactics" in the game. If you didn't include units that have actual tactics available, you don't even get to do anything with the remaining 10%



venomlust said:


> Very interesting, via 40k War Zone:http://40kwarzone.blogspot.com/2014/01/tyranid-vanguard-dataslate-hilarity.html


Pretty sure that's just terrible wording and they're not supposed to be able to assault first turn while deploying 6" away from the enemy.

However, if it was true and it allowed for turn 1 assaults it would turn a useless unit into an overpowered one with the snap of a finger as it becomes impossible to counter this "tactic" except by relying almost exclusively on flamers, 100% drop pod armies or terrain placement, which will be out of your control in a tournament, meaning you could get screwed if the organizers feel like specifically nerfing this combo. That's just how balanced the game is.


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## Wookiepelt (Jan 29, 2013)

Mokuren said:


> Pretty sure that's just terrible wording and they're not supposed to be able to assault first turn while deploying 6" away from the enemy.
> 
> However, if it was true and it allowed for turn 1 assaults it would turn a useless unit into an overpowered one with the snap of a finger as it becomes impossible to counter this "tactic" except by relying almost exclusively on flamers, 100% drop pod armies or terrain placement, which will be out of your control in a tournament, meaning you could get screwed if the organizers feel like specifically nerfing this combo. That's just how balanced the game is.


One of the problems I noted with the comment exchanges in that blog is that they keep mixing/confusing the rules for two different formations; namely the _Hidden Beneath The City_ special rule for the Broodlord's Hunting Pack formation with the _Unsuspected_ special rule for the Manufactorum Genestealers formation!

Having said that, the blurp at the top of this formation page state the following:


> When Genestealers are led by a Broodlord they are all the more effective at causing carnage. On Satys they were known to the Catachans as the Broodlord's Hunting Packs. At the direction of the Broodlord, these Tyranids infiltrated the tunnels of the underengines, tormented the Imperial defenders and savaged them with claws and razor-sharp teeth.


There is a very specific mention of the Hunting Packs' tactics of *infiltrating* the tunnels, which in my opinion infers the use of the Infiltrate rule by default. This is my interpretation of the rules but I'm sure others may/will disagree. Probably a prime candidate for the FAQs!


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Except the rule pretty clearly says "Units ... that arrive from Reserve can be set up in an unoccupied building. Alternatively, they may be set up...."

Alternatively would indicate when NOT using Infiltrate. 

Alternatively: The choice between two mutually exclusive possibilities - Websters

In addition, the Unsuspected rule for the Manufactorium Genestealers says "that are deployed within a building or ruin using the infiltration special rule can be". I posit if the rule was going to be similar, the "hidden beneath the city" rule would read
..."that arrive from reserve can be set up in an Unoccupied building or ruin within 6".." just like the previous rule. As it's worded differently,it's meant to be different. Otherwise, The broodlord and the Manufactorium rules would be the same, and would have the same wording.


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## Wookiepelt (Jan 29, 2013)

If you are right in this interpretation, me and the son would be most happy!

PS: I tend to err on the conservative side so anything that pans out otherwise becomes a welcomed bonus!


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm going to play it as written, i.e. you get to deploy into ruins within 6" of the enemy. Which then makes all other armies not put ruins in deployment zones. Ah well.


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