# Killing The New Grey Knights...The Chaos Way!



## OneBulletAtATime

Being an army tailored against daemons, grey knight players are going to feel pretty confident when it comes to facing armys like Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons. 

So I thought I would start a thread so that we worshippers of the ruinous powers could bang our heads together and come up with some tactics and advise on how to beat the shiny emperors lapdogs.

Any Suggestions...??


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## Epidemius

I think that this is an excellent idea. because I love nothing more than to completely crush Imperial soldiers.

I heard that they have rules that deny invuln saves and even temporary disable daemonic gifts. i've also heard that they're an army that's great at close-combat but isn't very good at tank killing. Maybe a ton of Tzeentch daemons all firing at them at once would be good. then maybe some heavily armed tanks. If chaos guard falls under this category, then maybe some long range artillery and heavy battle tanks would be nice. 
Crap I just forgot they can teleport. damnit I'm at a brain block.


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## shaantitus

My traitor guard will use their proven method. Bigger Guns. However it is the demons players that I feel for. It is not hard to put together a list for chaos that has no demonic units. Demons is another story altogether.


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## Iron_Freak220

Yeah it won't be all that much different than killing normal SMs as a CSM player. Even our princes don't count as daemons so they aren't affected by some of the gk stuff. However a lot of their wargear does affect psykers.

So I'm thinking the standard Khorne/Nurgle list ought to do fine. It might even be worth taking Khorne Princes since they don't count as psykers or daemons against the gks. Berzerkers should wreck gks in CC though provided they get the charge. Plague marines will be tough as always.


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## TheSpore

As soon as I get my hands on the codex ill be turning the gears on how to counter them with daemons. Im pretty sure it won't be easy but I'm pretty sure it can be done.


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## OrdoMalleus

Iron_Freak220 said:


> Yeah it won't be all that much different than killing normal SMs as a CSM player. Even our princes don't count as daemons so they aren't affected by some of the gk stuff. However a lot of their wargear does affect psykers.


However I suspect like the last daemonhunters that there will be a statement in the front of the codex stating which units count as "Daemonic", But definitely watch out not to take powers on your prince otherwise they are suddenly psykers and will be in a world of special rule pain and saying bye-bye to their eternal warrior:angry:.....




Iron_Freak220 said:


> So I'm thinking the standard Khorne/Nurgle list ought to do fine. It might even be worth taking Khorne Princes since they don't count as psykers or daemons against the gks. Berzerkers should wreck gks in CC though provided they get the charge. Plague marines will be tough as always.


Yea, at the the end of the day the new GKs are just elite SMs, and you pay for that eliteness in points. So unless you are outnumbered by GKs you shouldnt be in to much trouble :laugh: My one point is that GKs will hurt KB a lot more than they used in CC. With any of the squad being I6 with halberds, (or whatever NFW they are weilding) and everyone with a PW they can put the hurt out.....

From the looks of it, GK anti-tank is not poor by any stretch : Psycannons are all a real threat to all non-AV 14 vehicles (Str.7 Heavy 4 Rending) and with the possibility to spam them I dont think mech chaos is the way forward.

However Chaos can definitely bring more quantity to the fight so just overwhelm the shiny little b******.....:laugh:

a vindi or two and thats probably the whole army gone in a turn of shooting :angry:


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## Sephyr

Based on what I've seen so far, the CSM counters have to be numbers and lots of plasma. With halberds they can CC on a higher I than charging zerkers (with force weapons!), they have lots of S5 bolters and spammable S7 Heavy 4 rending guns on vehicles. 

So far, what I can think is many vindicators/defilers, loads of vanilla CSM used as gunlines, and never Deepstriking a damn thing.


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## Warlock in Training

OrdoMalleus said:


> However I suspect like the last daemonhunters that there will be a statement in the front of the codex stating which units count as "Daemonic", But definitely watch out not to take powers on your prince otherwise they are suddenly psykers and will be in a world of special rule pain and saying bye-bye to their eternal warrior:angry:.....


I really dont see GW making Clear Well Establish Rules anytime soon, im pretty sure there lazy enough to just say Anything with the Daemon rule. 




OrdoMalleus said:


> However Chaos can definitely bring more quantity to the fight so just overwhelm the shiny little b******.....:laugh:


Now this was a funny thought, Vindi or 2, DPs, 2 small squads of TS for that AP3 range, give them Icons, and Spam 8, 10, 12 Squads of LDs and just swarm them and laugh. The lack of Daemon Rule, and cheapness of LDs makes for a great point and laugh as his troops get gun down and u spawn LDs on your line for the final push. :laugh:


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## OneBulletAtATime

OrdoMalleus said:


> However Chaos can definitely bring more quantity to the fight so just overwhelm the shiny little b******.....:laugh:





Warlock in Training said:


> Now this was a funny thought, Vindi or 2, DPs, 2 small squads of TS for that AP3 range, give them Icons, and Spam 8, 10, 12 Squads of LDs and just swarm them and laugh. The lack of Daemon Rule, and cheapness of LDs makes for a great point and laugh as his troops get gun down and u spawn LDs on your line for the final push. :laugh:


Now that's the type of talk I like to see  
I like the idea of spamming them with LD's or just marines, maybe use a biker squad with an icon to deep strike the LD right in front of them?

Can anyone confirm whether or not that they our LD, GD and DP are going to be counted as deamons or not. As if their not, thats kind of a slap in the face to the grey knights and a big plus to all of us :biggrin: 

Ive been wondering if using a chaos lord in termy armour with a slaaneshy daemon wep. would be a good idea? It would mean he would have I6 with D6+3 attacks and only has to wound once to get instant kill all his multiple wound units (I.e Dreadknights)


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## LukeValantine

Here is a go at my answer to GK's.
Kharn, rhino's, Chosen, Havocs, oblitorators...and lots and lots of plasma and melta.

They are a small elite army mainly focused on CC with some limited long range options that from what I have seen don't like getting run over by infiltrating chosen or shot at by AC's so yah just don't go CC heavy, and you will be fine.


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## OneBulletAtATime

I really need to go in-store and see the codex for myself before I make any suggestions >_< 

So watch this space for now


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## Stephen_Newman

Obvious point is that they suck in terms of long range firepower. So use havocs/oblits to focus here from the start. The get resilient units to keep them at bay in CC or crap units that die when charged so the rest of your army can rapid fire next turn.


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## Supersonic Banana

it seems like TS spam to me along with as many plasma and melta armed chosen as your heretics can get their hands on.

remember weight of fire is also very effective as a power armour killer


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## OneBulletAtATime

Thousand sons...hmmm

What would be the best choice of spell of the AS??


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## OrdoMalleus

Thousands sons are a bit of a double edged sword against the new GKs ( Had a decent read of the codex today..)

Because for TS you have to take an aspiring champion (who is a pysker) it opens you up to a lot of nasty things aimed at "units including a pyker". Of the top of my head:
-Psyocculukm gives a unit BS10 shooting at a unit including a psyker (and expect it to be used on PC servitors)
-Draigo becomes Str.10 against a unit containing psykers
-Some funny grenade makes a unit with psykers/daemons Int1.......
Also dont work on the assumption that you can AP3 rapid fire death his troops, becuase Grey Knight terminators are troops (Madness I know.... although I intend to make the most of it )

Oblits are good all round, so you definitely cant go wring there 

Also, Watch out for Libbies that can make units nearby Int 10....Like a dreadknight with a Nemesis Daemonhammer that becomes Str.10 Int.10. As for the blissgiver, I think there is better Daemonweapons to take against GK. If you take a lord with blissgiver against most GK units, youll kill a couple but your lord will definitely die. (Halberds as mention give I6, and brotherhood banner automatically passes forceweapon tests). however a korne lord with daemon weapons is more than likely to wipe the unit out...


However the typus with plague reaper is the new weapon of choice Vs. Dreadnights ( you heard it here first lol )


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## Warlock in Training

All the negative things u mention against TS is no real big deal.
- BS4 or BS10 doesnt matter to much ethier way against 3+/4++ and a 4+ Cover Save. 
- If some asshole at Str 10 reaches TS in CC then something went horribly wrong already.
- Same as above. TS arnt meant for CC at all.

So the AP3/Plasma Spam is still solid. TS are actually viable. If GKs field Termies then you have them outnumbered like 3 to 1 and mass wounding takes over AP pens. So either way u win as TS. Imagin that TS is probaly the most useful Cult Troop against something.:so_happy:


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## OneBulletAtATime

Hmmm...so in summary the best choices up to now are:

-Thousand Sons
-Obliterators
-Typhus
-Khorne Lord/Kharn
-Vindicators/Defilers
-Lesser Daemon Hordes/Bomb

At least a list with all these in would appease 3 of the gods  apart from Slaanesh 

Speaking of Slaanesh, I was thinking maybe noise marines might be something worth considering, purely for the sheer amount of fire-power they would bring to the fight (especially against a GK terminator list). A squad of 10 with sonic blasters could fire 30/20 (depending on freq.) shots from 24" away :laugh:


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## LukeValantine

On a side note to this discussion swarm daemon armies do ok against GK's stuff like 40+ daemonnettes or bloodletters.


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## Deathscythe4722

All our carefully thought out strategies will go to hell when it turns out the GKs brought 1000+ points of Interceptor Squads and a couple of Dreadknights with teleporters. 

30" free teleport followed by shooting=Dead everything. Especially if they got full squads with Psybolt Ammo (S5 Storm Bolters!) and Psycannons.

If by some miracle our heavy firepower survives, we now have several angry Dreadknights within (or just outside of, depending on their wargear choice) charge range to deal with.


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## Blackyujiro

LukeValantine said:


> On a side note to this discussion swarm daemon armies do ok against GK's stuff like 40+ daemonnettes or bloodletters.


I agree. Although I think its pretty jacked up that I NEED to change my daemon list from the nice heavy-hitting elite package to a swarm, just to counter GKs.


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## Sephyr

I have to agree with Deathscythe. Their lack of long-range artillery is more than compensated by the fact that they DS and teleoport around like champs, and have horrifying weaponry to use once they get in that range. 

I see most games being ambush-based: taking shots at transports at first (especially the damn stormraven!) while keeping pretty much everything in cover, then picking out the advancing heavy hitters one by one.


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## LukeValantine

At least proper horde armies will still give GK a run for their money (Speed freaks, genestealers). Still a proper gun line seems far more reasonable a counter.


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## Sephyr

LukeValantine said:


> At least proper horde armies will still give GK a run for their money.


Actually, between the abundance of storm bolters and purifiers, GKs are very well-geared to deal with hordes. Especially if they keep that unit-power that causes wounds on entire ork mobs of 30 boys on a 4+ before CC even starts, and counts for resolution.


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## Iron_Freak220

Sephyr said:


> Actually, between the abundance of storm bolters and purifiers, GKs are very well-geared to deal with hordes. Especially if they keep that unit-power that causes wounds on entire ork mobs of 30 boys on a 4+ before CC even starts, and counts for resolution.


Yeah hordes have no chance against a properly built GK army. Those purifiers will just ruin their day.


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## Dakingofchaos

For csm im fond of the ts counter - especially since i already have two sqauds of them > the 4 plus invuns should do a good job at protecting them if they get into combat - and lets not forget that the as does infact have a force weapon, so there is a small chance of him killing that peasky dreadknight in one. And ts are just as good as vanilla marines in combat really, they might have one less attack but that 4 plus invun more than makes up for it imo.


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## mcmuffin

Horde berzerkers are going to be the way to go imo, and my 1750 list will be something like

Kharn
5 Meltagun Chosen, rhino
8 berzerkers, fist, rhino
8 berzerkers, fist, rhino
8 berzerkers, fist, rhino
8 berzerkers, fist.

Land raider
Vindicator
3x oblits

berzerkers on the charge will at least bog down units, and judging by the tiny army size, objectives wont be a problem, as the most viable option will be all out annihilation of the GK


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## OneBulletAtATime

mcmuffin said:


> Horde berzerkers are going to be the way to go imo, and my 1750 list will be something like
> 
> Kharn
> 5 Meltagun Chosen, rhino
> 8 berzerkers, fist, rhino
> 8 berzerkers, fist, rhino
> 8 berzerkers, fist, rhino
> 8 berzerkers, fist.
> 
> Land raider
> Vindicator
> 3x oblits
> 
> berzerkers on the charge will at least bog down units, and judging by the tiny army size, objectives wont be a problem, as the most viable option will be all out annihilation of the GK


I think this would work imo, as-long as you make sure to kill any dreadknights with your lascannons and melta's u should be fine


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## Orochi

Again, let them get the actual codex out first before deciding what will work.

If you must however, look at the facts.

Low model count + DS (the most likely fashionable build these guys take) means low redeployment speed post DS.
For tactical advantage, an Army that can redeploy fast will have no porblem reforming to suit their advantage (DE, Eldar, Tau and some Ork/marine/Guard).
Armies that share low redeployment speed (Necron, Hordes and gun lines) The sheer amount of attacks/shots upon landing should be the focus. I do not care how tough a DS'ing Terminator squad is. He will NOT want to land infront of 10 Immortals.

So, to run the DS army for GKs will require a plan to get you to either come to him, or have him keep you on the back foot, Via either Pinning you or sending combat troops at you down specific and pre-chosen lanes. DS'ing at the chosen locations will force you into pressure and break your army up. Losing army wide coherency and thus making it difficult ot play with 2-3 smaller armies and trying to make them join up again or simply fighting for themselves.

Now. A DS list will be obvious from the start however. No transports.
Should it go the other way however, and there are landraider and storm raven aplenty. Then simply look at how the enemy is laid out. GKs are expensive in points. So, the more squads on the board means the smaller the squad number and vice versa. Work out which one it is and act accordingly.

Either way, via Transport or DS. The new GK army seems (from what we've seen) to require getting up close. Knowing how the army needs to play to be effective means you;ve already won the tactical basics.

Chaos can shoot, fight or even both. GK seem to like combat and close range firepower.

Thousand sons and Obliterators being good anti-PA choices.
I also believe the Vanilla lord with Daemon weapon may have a place against GK. I5 with 5-9 str5 power weapon hits is nasty against low model count marine armies.
Massed Chaos marines with appropriate support is also recommendable. A standard BL army (Marines in rhinos with Preds/vindis in support) would do well against my current view on GK.

Or failing that, just play DE.


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## Sephyr

Orochi said:


> Or failing that, just play DE.


I've been seeing people saying DE will do well against (what we know about) the the GKs. I don't quite see it yet. 

How are they going to get their transports into charging position if being within 24' of the spammable psycannons is certain doom to all vehicles, including the Dais of Destruction?

You can only disembark is you move up to 12'. Meaning you'll be well outside assault range unless you run (rolling a 6) and avoid all terrain. 

That's not even factoring the (at least) 2 rifleman dreads with psybolts (a steal at 135 points) all smart players will be fielding. 4 twin-linked S8 shots at 48' range each -will- nuke two additional AV10 open vehicles a turn way, way more often than not.


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## Dawnstar

Actually, since a Raider is fast I believe that you can move 18" and still disembark because it is also open-topped


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## Iron_Freak220

Dawnstar said:


> Actually, since a Raider is fast I believe that you can move 18" and still disembark because it is also open-topped


No they can only disembark if they move 12'' because even though they can fire one more weapon than normal they still count as moving flat out if they go over 12''.



Sephyr said:


> I've been seeing people saying DE will do well against (what we know about) the the GKs. I don't quite see it yet.
> 
> How are they going to get their transports into charging position if being within 24' of the spammable psycannons is certain doom to all vehicles, including the Dais of Destruction?
> 
> You can only disembark is you move up to 12'. Meaning you'll be well outside assault range unless you run (rolling a 6) and avoid all terrain.
> 
> That's not even factoring the (at least) 2 rifleman dreads with psybolts (a steal at 135 points) all smart players will be fielding. 4 twin-linked S8 shots at 48' range each -will- nuke two additional AV10 open vehicles a turn way, way more often than not.


It's all assuming DE get first turn. If they don't then they die pretty easily. But if they do then all their raiders come screaming across the board 24''. Now they'll all be in assault range turn 2 and everything's got a 4+ cover save. So even though the GKs will be able to pop some raiders (certainly not all with the cover saves) the DE will already be close enough to charge turn 2


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## spanner94ezekiel

What about special characters like abby, typhus or lucius?...
Just give them land raiders and a bg of chosen, zerkers or termies...


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## LukeValantine

...Did you miss the part about them IDing eternal warriors, because thats the reason no one mentioned abby.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

LukeValantine said:


> ...Did you miss the part about them IDing eternal warriors, because thats the reason no one mentioned abby.


They don't ID Eternal Warriors. They simply force Psykers/Daemons to take a Ld test or die outright.


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## Orochi

Luke Valentine change your avatar back!


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## ckcrawford

I miss Chaos Dreadnought and Defilers with Daemonic Hull against grey knight armies. It was fun... lol.

But now, pretty much you could do it the old fashioned easy way and just shoot em up. But this really works effectively if you camp and don't get tempted to send your units into the fray (especially your bezerkers, Daemon Princes, and Plague Marines). When you do this, you send parts of your force against their whole army. And they just get destroyed piece meal. Then you get problems.

EDIT: lol fuck the close combat approach


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## ckcrawford

If you guys look at the new rules on the rumors for Grey Knights, I think I'm just going to have to say... fuck... might as well just go all out in the shooting. lol. Just when you thought the Blood Angels were overpowered....


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## StalkerZero

ckcrawford said:


> If you guys look at the new rules on the rumors for Grey Knights, I think I'm just going to have to say... fuck... might as well just go all out in the shooting. lol. Just when you thought the Blood Angels were overpowered....


We've been playtesting GK since the leak went out. I play Space Wolves who are typically pretty good in CC in their own right. 

But if I want to beat GK I will definitely be looking to outshoot them. Whether that means tossing 15 ML Long Fang shots at them or trying to get close enough to rapid fire some down and pray that what's left can be handled by Grey Hunters next turn that's what it has to be.

For Troops I really feel like they are the best CC army right now.


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## Daxora

Have to say, i don't really see the potential in TS. Ok, they shoot Ap3. So what?
They are good only in rapid range, and even then they (counting a 9+1 TS unit) won't be able to take down a 10 men squad, and the rest of those can then assault them. Ok, they've got 4++, but are hardly capable of winning the CC. So the ~250 points squad can shoot one, maybe 2 times a match.
And assuming of course, the psy cannon storm won't open their rhino on the way.
And assuming, the opponent was stupid enough to leave his squad with no cover.

By the way, cover: Any ideas, how to deal with shrouding Libras? On my last test match, my opponent (of course) kept all his important units in 4+ cover, and close to him, so plasma cannons were all useless against the 3+ cover.


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## uber

TS are best used in conjunction with another unit. they will not wipe out full size units by themselves.


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## gen.ahab

ckcrawford said:


> Just when you thought the Blood Angels were overpowered....


They weren't/aren't OP. They are good, but I wouldn't even put them down as a tier one codex.

When it comes right down to it, if you are trying to fight GK in CC you WILL get your face fucked in.

What does this mean? Say good bye to your zerks, who should have been gone a long time ago anyway, and stock up on PM or TS and embrace the obliterator. You will need as much long range fire power as you can put into a list.


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## SlamHammer

_(Grey Knight Speaking)_

I'll let you in on a little secret. You wanna beat me with my Battle Brothers, then shoot me. Shoot me a lot. Kill me the way you would kill Armor 2+ or 3+. Make me make my saves. It costs me 280 pts to get a Troop unit that I feel is combat capable (Psybolt Ammo, Psycannons, Rhino) so exploit that. Attack my transports first, unless they are Land Raiders, to get my guys out. I am not Fearless (except Purifiers), so force me to take LD tests for pinning, falling back, etc. And dear god, avoid my Psycannons...they will mess you up. Do not engage my in CC unless you are prepared to take garunteed losses. Also, I am a army made up entirely of Psykers, you gotta have something to punish me for that.

On the flip side, if you think I am just another Space Marine, you will get destroyed. If you are not paying attention to every little Psyker trick (Warp Quake, Cleansing Fire, etc.) I have, it will bite you in the ass. If you want to fight this out in close combat, I will send you back to the Blood God. I have a ton of tactical options available to me, so you are going to need to calculate a solid plan to take me down. We are the Lords of Titan, the Emperor's Chosen Sons, and we will not back down from any fight. So if you are coming to fight us, you better bring it! :wink:


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## LukeValantine

In other words hit the spazes with a bunch of nice cheap bolters till their fancy armor falls apart. Mind you then your really at a disadvantage against any real shooty army since those lost points could have made CC units to mulch the stuff that can out shoot you, but such is the fate of the hobby with BA/GK running around.


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## Daxora

> I'll let you in on a little secret. You wanna beat me with my Battle Brothers, then shoot me. Shoot me a lot. Kill me the way you would kill Armor 2+ or 3+. Make me make my saves. It costs me 280 pts to get a Troop unit that I feel is combat capable (Psybolt Ammo, Psycannons, Rhino) so exploit that. Attack my transports first, unless they are Land Raiders, to get my guys out. I am not Fearless (except Purifiers), so force me to take LD tests for pinning, falling back, etc. And dear god, avoid my Psycannons...they will mess you up. Do not engage my in CC unless you are prepared to take garunteed losses. Also, I am a army made up entirely of Psykers, you gotta have something to punish me for that.


I agree absolutely. I had 2 matches against GK with dark eldar, and the very mobile dark lances and splinter cannons worked better than expacted.

But how do you manage that kind of shooty strategy with CSM?


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## OneBulletAtATime

I'm having my first game against grey knights next week. Anyone have any list ideas for me? I'm thinking of taking 1k sons but the price of them always puts me off, especially when my tactic will be to out shoot the guy, dunno whether it would just be better to take more CSM with IoG. 

Any Ideas?


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## Dakingofchaos

uber said:


> TS are best used in conjunction with another unit. they will not wipe out full size units by themselves.


well, that would depend on how big your thousand sons squad is :biggrin:


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## uber

Played against the GK last night. Lots of plasma, and DPs with warptime and wind of chaos wiped them out to a man. Just keep the distance, and hit hard before they charge. Use of cover is key, as you want to take the psi cannon out of the picture.


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## OneBulletAtATime

uber said:


> Played against the GK last night. Lots of plasma, and DPs with warptime and wind of chaos wiped them out to a man. Just keep the distance, and hit hard before they charge. Use of cover is key, as you want to take the psi cannon out of the picture.


What mark would be best to take on the DPs?

Or Do you mean both your princes took both of them powers with MoT ?


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## TAU4297

If you use alot of plasma weapons and they're feilding a Ordo xeno inquisitor STAY AWAY aleast more than 12" of him, Ulumeathi plasma syphon ruduces you're BS to 1 if models with plasma weapons are within 12" of him


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## uber

Holy crappy that sucks. Thanks for the tip. And I almost always use MoT.


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## The Meddler

For daemons, you could always use the changeling. Stopping an enemy from shooting could help your guys, and making them shoot their own side will reduce their already small force. The pink horrors will be good for the sheer volume of shots.


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## RossAndrew1

Basically against any marine army it is just a case of numbers.

More shots and more attacks, eventually he is going to roll those 1's on his terminator saves.
For every six wounds logic says he is going to roll a 1 and as stated before, they do pay the points for being elite marines.

I'm a CSM, CD and necron player.

Noted this is the Chaos thread, but this was funny.

My mate came over with his new SoB and Grey Knight army. Played my necrons, Imotekh struck his penitent engine, immolator tank, Dreadknight and a squad of terminators in turn one.
Rolled 5's and 6's for the number of hits, wiped out everything bar 3 terminators lol!

And his team mates loan wolf for the Space wolves LOL!

He literally picked everything up off the board and went in a huff. Well I'm f***** now aren't I sob sob! Didn;t even get to use my new stuff sob sob hahahaha!

Enter my iphone, Fallout boy, She's my Winona...... chrous section, ohhhh ohhhh ohhhh THE THUNDER!!! hahahaha


Anyway.....

I have toyed with ways to beat them and to be honest with the Battle brother system I feel this is my way around them.

Fielding Space Marines as my main army and have an attachment of Daemons along with them.

I believe that kharne and probably Abaddon are the choice of HQ's here although if I'm honest I did look at Lucius the Eternal. GK's don't have many attacks so if I could pass the odd 5+ invul his armor counter attack could be quite brutal.
And of course Kharnes blessing of the blood god should work pretty nicely nullifying any force weapons. (although I don't know if the GK's have some sort of loop hole ability to nullify that?)

So anyway, this way I could dump a load of of Zerkers along with kharne. Possibly even throw in some noise marines or 1k suns for a bit of ranged fire power.
The 1k suns would at least get me through any normal marine saves forcing invuls, and the blast masters have some heavy fire again forcing invuls on normal marines.
Also the normal sonic blasters have several shots. Again, more shots = more saves.

At the back I'd have likely a defiler to rain down some artillery, battle cannon again, more blast markers.

I do see the reasoning behind people mentioning lots of plasma, gets through the 2+ termi saves to force invul, KB's have some plasma pistol upgrades.

My other thought was to pile in a lot of pink horrors as my Chaos contingent, or even some flamers of tzeentch to use as kamikaze units.

Deep strike them in at range to avoid Coatez, and use the bombardment of warpfire bolts to try and thin them out.
Of course now there is no Bolt of Tzeentch upgrade which is poor, however, flamers are still jump infantry and you could get in nice and close to blow a load of nice flamey goodness on a 4+ forced invul save.

The other nice thing about the horrors is the split, into MORE shots!

Unfortunately I have left my codex in my car so i can't type up a list, but I must find a way to beat them consistently because the guy bought them to combat me.
he's a pissy arrogant, grumpy horrible snotty SOB playing the SOB's which is quite fitting! But mainly because they are women and he's a pervert!
And the GK's is because of the daemons.
And because his fairy Eldar army couldn't take me on before hand.

So he needs to die! lol!:angry::angry::angry:


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