# Zoanthrope Vs. Hive Guard



## Usaal (Apr 9, 2008)

Hey guys and Gals,

I am just trying to do up a list for a Tournament in November, and through play testing I am trying to figure out if Hive Guard would be better than Zoanthrope for Anti-Armor.

I am leaning to Hive guard recently after reading there stat line again.

I enjoy the Strength of the Zoanthrope big shot (trying not to give details to those without codexes, GW seems to be a bit sensitive these days). But in order to shoot it you have to do a physic test and then a BS test, then your roll to glance or pen.
It does have the advantage of Synapse, and Warp field, but I find they are targeted right away, and with there T they get insta Gibbed more often than not, at least in my local games.
This got me thinking that keeping them out of LOS until they can get into range of the armor would be best... and that got me thinking of Hive Guard.

I was just wondering what other people's thoughts were on this...


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## Hive Fleet Hellion (Jan 3, 2011)

Honestly if its a tourney then go with HG they are great. Zoanthropes in tournaments dont do well due to hoods and such.The only problem most people have about not taking zoans is that LR's are a pain but you can handle LR's with HG by "stunning" them to death or just killing them with a trygon. But i would definetly choose HG.


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

I like to take bot to be honest, they are more or less the top choices for your elite slots so it doesnt hurt to get both. The high toughness on the hive guard is really quite nice, but the 3++ inv save on the thropes works wonders against S5-7 shots. 

I shall now take a moment to rage at the fact that nids aren't immune to insta death anymore -.-................................... may they rest in peace. (@!^!^*)*#$^)!*#) what were they thinking?!?! xD)


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

They serve different roles. Hive Guard will barely scratch AV14, while Zoanthropes make it look easy. Although the majority of tanks you would normally face are a bit lower than that (11/12) and Hive Guard preform better against those sort of values (twice as many attacks, longer range and no need for Psychic Test).


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## Luisjoey (Dec 3, 2010)

Hive guard is the best

several shoots, no line of sight (preventing killng shoots) 

I made lot of points with a hive guard shooting zoantropes and making lots of instant death


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Usaal said:


> But in order to shoot it you have to do a physic test


Uh oh, looks like I'd fail that :laugh:

In all seriousness, zoans underperform competitively as they just get targeted like the shit, and are basically a one-shot unit. Hive Guard are better due to no LOS, but are still a prime target for enemy forces.


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## ohiocat110 (Sep 15, 2010)

Different units with different roles. The statistical differences have been pretty well hashed over, but tactics play a large part too. 

Hive Guard have to be walked up the board and require a synapse babysitter. They'll also often be firing on front vehicle armor unless you can create a crossfire. They're better for board control though since they're tough to wound and can fire without LOS. 

Zoans can pod and DS, which can get them where they need to go and also set up side or rear shots on vehicles with different facing AVs. Yeah they get focus-fired when they land, but they still have a 3++ save and can have a psychological effect on the enemy. Plus every krak missile and lascannon that's shooting at a Zoan isn't putting wounds on your Trygons/Tervigons/Tyrants, and on average it will take 4-5 of those shots to kill one. 

Hive guard are the tough, reliable unit and Zoans are the all-or-nothing unit. Sun Tzu tactics would say take one of each, the Yin and the Yang. 2 units of Hive Guard and 1 unit of Zoans is a solid way to fill up your Elite slots.


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## Usaal (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks for all the imput guys.
For Elites I take Doom in a pod and Venomthropes (moving cover saves is great for the rush), then I had that one spot left for my anti Armor roll and thus my delima. Mostly I am conserned with stopping the Rhino rush and slowing down Orks. Mostly Land Raiders I just avoid, like monoliths, I accept shots from them and kill the squishy center when they open up. Unless he actually moves it into charge range of my Trygon or Old One eye.
The problem I have with Mycetic Spore units is the lack of firepower on the board when needed, in a timed Tournament I tend to build my force for a Turn 3 or 4 victory, and I can't rely on the pods comming in before the end... except for Doom, him in a pod is a must.

I think I am going to run Guard for the consistancy aspect, and I had not even thought about Hoods.... that would make my Zoanthropes have a bad day I am sure. My list only has the points for 2 Zoan or 2 Guard so it seems like the better choice based on this Thread, also I HATE!!!! the insta gib on my Zoanthropes.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

oblivion8 said:


> I like to take bot to be honest, they are more or less the top choices for your elite slots so it doesnt hurt to get both. The high toughness on the hive guard is really quite nice, but the 3++ inv save on the thropes works wonders against S5-7 shots.
> 
> I shall now take a moment to rage at the fact that nids aren't immune to insta death anymore -.-................................... may they rest in peace. (@!^!^*)*#$^)!*#) what were they thinking?!?! xD)


Probably that a bunch of space bugs typically don't have the define protection or crazy hyper tech to explain why a blast powerful enough to vaporise steel wouldn't kill the equivalent of a giant beetle.

Yah but for game balancing purposes it also makes sense. (Really new warriors, Hive guard with EW would be retardely hard to shift)


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## Luisjoey (Dec 3, 2010)

spanner94ezekiel said:


> Uh oh, looks like I'd fail that :laugh:
> 
> In all seriousness, zoans underperform competitively as they just get targeted like the shit, and are basically a one-shot unit. Hive Guard are better due to no LOS, but are still a prime target for enemy forces.


Well the psychic Test is like a TO HIT roll, so is not big differece, maybe that has a "Psy Gets Hot"


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## oblivion8 (Jun 17, 2009)

> Probably that a bunch of space bugs typically don't have the define protection or crazy hyper tech to explain why a blast powerful enough to vaporise steel wouldn't kill the equivalent of a giant beetle.
> 
> Yah but for game balancing purposes it also makes sense. (Really new warriors, Hive guard with EW would be retardely hard to shift)


I can believe the eternal warrior rule fluff wise. A carnifex more or less survived exterminatus by curling up into a rock like form, and the way they put it in the old dex was perfectly understandable.
As for powerwise, of course they would need to modify certain things, but I would prefer 2W warriors etc.... with EW then having to be scared of some krak missiles. (plus you need to still be in synapse range)


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

Usaal said:


> ...moves it into charge range of my Trygon or Old One eye.


Old one eye is an....interesting* choice. For what it's worth HG are generally a lot better against anything not av14. I don't leave the house without at least two squads of HG.

*Translation: totally crap.


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