# Help me: confessions of a moronic Tyranid General



## Azwaz (Feb 16, 2011)

So I've been looking around the Tactica forum, I've been doing searches online but I cant really find the answers I'm looking for. The simple question I want to ask is...

How do you personally find the best way to use the 'insert unit name' is?

The problem I'm having is sifting through all the people that are just saying, dont use that unit, its useless. The other thing I'm coming up against is people saying, I find the best way to use this is in this specific army list, which is fine if I have an infinite number of different units at my disposal and I'm sick of freedom.

I dont play competatively, I play for fun. I dont really like arguing over the rules or anything (which seems to come up in tactics a bit). So ALL I'm asking is, if your willing to, could you tell me whats the best way you've used these units...

Lictor
Pyrovore
Carnifex
Mawloc

I know, I know, theres plenty of room for debate and complaint here (what units are useless, can the mawloc target units, blah blah blah, etc), but what I'm looking for here is not to start a negative thread. Im not trying to incite people bashing, codex author hate or any other kind of moaning/complaining/critasism.

So basically, anyone with decent experiences of using these would be cool, whether it was down to a bit of luck or especially if you've managed to use it more than once in a similar way. Not to say what what anyone did was a stupid idea, unlikely to work or anything. Just... I used this guy, it worked like this (and the person I played with accepted how I was using it with no argument) and I was pleased with the result.

thanks everyone : )


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

This might be of use:
Oddjob's Tyranid Synergy and Unit Analysis


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

lictor, i have had almost no experience of these but the time i did use them, they just died 

Pyrovore, no use of these what so-ever

carnifex, they used to be awesome in the last edition but i feel for what you get the points is too much.

Mawloc, i love these guys! everyone says that the prime is better but i dont care, they have taken out enough terminator/marine units for me to call them defiantly worth it  best moment with a Mawloc has to be when i anatillated a Grey knight terminator unit with them (the previous Deamon hunters codex it has to be said)


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Lictor- used them a few times in 'fun' lists. They work great as a distraction and have helped me to bring in my harpy exactly where I have wanted it to be a few times. Overall I'd say just avoid them now, but if you must take them bring them down near enemy shooing units that don't have flamers and won't smoosh you in combat (ie no powerfists) and just laugh everytime the opponent declares a shot going their way...

Pyrovore- I have never used these things, but I'm almost half tempted to shove a couple in in a snot pod and use them as an anti-hoard strike force... forget that they have power weapons or any other special rules... they are rubbish except as a flamer unit.

Carnifex- if you want a walking combat moster then the trygon is simply better... for me the only 2 ways to run a fex that aren't simply outclassed by other options are either as a snot podding plasma cannon (mycetic spore and bioplasma) or in a unit of 3, likely with a tyranid prime to back them up. Either way they are probably far more points then they are worth.
... the fex is just the target of GW trying to sell more models: they were the must have in the old dex, so GW kept them in the dex to avoid a riot, but made them so rubbish that almost no-one would use them anymore.

Mawloc- I actually like the mawloc a little more then a trygon.. but then I don't use either (converted my only trygon boxset into my swarmlord). I would deploy from reserve, mostly for the psychological value (opponent will spread out all his units) and then have it jump on isoltaed unit: hit them when entering from reserve, kill them in combta then burrow down to redeploy. I don't think its worth using solely as a whack-a-mole popping up and down just for the blast template.


... that's my tactical views in a nutshell, but while I'll use the less-effective units that I own (like lictors) I won't go out and buy expensive models that I don't like (such as mawloc/trygon). Mostly my lists revolve around the elites section, stealers and biovores, but I'll use almost every option not on your list quite commonly.


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## Azwaz (Feb 16, 2011)

khrone forever said:


> lictor, i have had almost no experience of these but the time i did use them, they just died
> 
> Pyrovore, no use of these what so-ever
> 
> carnifex, they used to be awesome in the last edition but i feel for what you get the points is too much.


This is the kind of thing I was hoping to avoid ; ), but I'm appreciating your story about killing the GK (regardless of the codex they were in at the time).

Thanks Tim and/or Steve, I get models I like the look of too, even if they it does turn out that no one else uses them. I got some models before I relised what the rules were like for them, but it doesnt really bother me. I like to write fun and interresting lists, trying out different combinations of stuff. I wrote a list the other day that did quite well, but then the more I use the same list, the more annoyed I get with myself for being boring. I dont want my armies to turn into the 40K equivalent of a Robot Wars, self righting, wedge shaped flipping machine. it workes, so everyone uses it.

I keep reasuring my friends that when I get my Grey Knights army up and running its not going to be as unstoppable as they think, because I dont play to win, I play to enjoy. My lits are going to be full of things that dont make a lot of tactical sense, but I'm happy with them.

That said... it doesnt hurt to win once in a while, or more specifically for me to get my own little personal victories, like wanting a 'bad' unit to achieve something. I've only used the Pyrovore a few times and he hasnt really done a lot in any of the games. I refuse to bench him indeffinately though, so I just wanted to know if someone had used him and done something cool with him. Likewise with the Lictor. The carnifex's and the mawloc I havnet really used and just wanted some encouraging to use them, so maybe I'll pop a Mawloc in the next list I write, try him out... I'm just worried about him scattering into a building and ... thats the end of that.

If anyone else has got success stories about any of these units, I'd love to hear them. I used to put Rippers on this list of things Im rubbish at using, but since then theve taken a Landspeeder, Daemon Prince and a Wraithlord.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Azwaz said:


> I used to put Rippers on this list of things Im rubbish at using, but since then theve taken a Landspeeder, Daemon Prince and a Wraithlord.


Erm... how? Rippers can't even hurt a Wraithlord, am I right? Even if they've got Poison, Wraithlords have two Flamers + another gun, and Str 10 striking at the same time/before you do. Again, Rippers can't hurt a Land Speeder even if they did hit it. Daemon Prince, maybe (with lucky rolls) but it IDs you, strikes before you, and at such a high WS that you hit back on 5s.

I think that it's down more to your luck than the Ripper's abilities that produced these jaw-dropping results.

Midnight


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

I played tyranids back when the carnifex was the screamer killer and had the smushed in face, up to the codex just before the most recent one. The lictor has always been my favorite unit in the codex despite it never being 'ideal' in the eyes of competative play. A trend i've noticed is that it's gotten progressively weaker, and its point cost increased. If I recall correctly, (way back when) it used to have 3 or 4 wounds, at 60 points. Now its something silly like 2 wounds at 80? I tried time and time again to use them, but gave up when it dropped in and got beat down by 4 sniper scouts in CC. 

Despite the negatives they did do useful things in some games. I'm sure im being redundant with these suggestions but the biggest thing is to keep your lictor(s) in mind when placing terrain at the start, and keep an eye for isolated shooty units. More times than not they are just a good distraction for a turn or 2 because of their deployment nature making them an immediate threat and will buy your other units some time.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> Erm... how? Rippers can't even hurt a Wraithlord, am I right? Even if they've got Poison, Wraithlords have two Flamers + another gun, and Str 10 striking at the same time/before you do. Again, Rippers can't hurt a Land Speeder even if they did hit it. Daemon Prince, maybe (with lucky rolls) but it IDs you, strikes before you, and at such a high WS that you hit back on 5s.


Buckets of dice and poison can kill just about any model without AV in the game, even more so if you manage to give them pref enemy. The rapelord can take his 2 attacks and kill 1 base while dying, thats quite ok as Tyranid. The DP is a bigger scalp for sure.

Furious charge makes the bugs S4 and once again a bucket of dice can do wonders, specially against AV10 models.


I too have memories of 2nd ed Lictors that could go toe to toe against SM captains without being instafisted in every way possible. I was generally on the recieving end though....
Lictors are fairly good tank hunters. Their shooting attack is ap- but still S6 rending which is more then enough to dent any rear armour. If they turn around to shoot them then your other part of the army should have a nice rear shot instead. They can not fail to get within range of the rear armour if you want them too. As long as you stun it youre golden the next turn with S6 rending CC attacks. Have seen 2 Lictors blow up a Baneblade (in CC though)


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

Thoughts on the Mawlock here:
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=80265&highlight=mawlock

Fex's are ok, but in pure cc mode they are very easy to avoid (especially in DoW). the only way I would really consider running them is with 2x tl devourers as 12x st6 is pretty nasty. The unit can then be given an easy cover save by attaching primes or putting a gargoyle squad out in front. Just don;t fight against any rune priests.

Lictors are definately my favourite Nid unit in terms of fluff, but sadly they exist in a very competitive FoC slot. I have considered them in a mawlock heavy list for funsies, but don't really see hem as being great compared to the other elites choices.

In a list for the local club you'll have no issues with just sticking in a mawlock, carnifex and some lictors into a list, but be aware that they have quite a steep learning curve.


--edit--
The best (only?) way to use pyrovores is in a spod, deepstriking onto your opponent for some flamey death. They are very overcosted in this role. Actually, the modles could be used as biovores, which aint half bad.


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## Lord Azune (Nov 12, 2011)

Just my views on the matter.

Carnifex - Personally I think I'd rather use 1 TL devourer and a stranglethorn. Force a pinning test at -1 LD per casualty, sign me up.

Lictors - Best unit we have for assaulting into cover since it basically acts as if it had offensive grenades. When assaulting into cover, you should plan to use fleet and stealth to keep them alive the turn they arrive so they can assault the subsequent turn.

Pyrovore - One of the few templates we get. Useful for anti-horde, pales in compairson to a Tyrannofex's anti-horde capabilities. Biggest benefit is power weapon except you'd have more efficiency using boneswords on a warrior if you're after that. It'd be cheaper AND provide Synapse.

Mawloc - I'd probably only use one with either a winged tyrant or a try prime. LD 8 to not assault with WS 3. 4 attacks on assault. I'd rather spend the extra 30 for a regular Try and get LD 8 to not assault with WS 5, 7 attacks on assault. Spend another 40 and you get a mobile Synapse for those pesky gargies, shrike, rippers, and raveners.

Oh and Oddjob, if you were gonna convert those to biovores, need to shave off a bit of the model and personally I'd give it a spore-mine emerging from the cannon.


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## Tatsumaki (Oct 22, 2009)

Here's my two cents... Eventually youll get a dollar ^^

Carnifex - It really depends how many carnifex you have, but so far I've just converted these to Tervigon and that's that. They are potentially very good anti-infantry, but they are very expensive for what they can do. They tend to excel at a range much more than they do in combat but thanks to the bolly Monstrous Creature rules, they still do very well in combat against ordinary troops and vehicles in combat even armed with ranged weapons. Avoid power weapons at all times, especially power fists. Even worse, don't try and go toe-to toe with a Seer Council, because it will be a short and violent fight, and you won't be the victor.

Finally, if you put him into combat, send him in ALONE. I say this because it is all too tempting to support that unit of Hormagaunts by charging the carnifex in too, but a cunning opponant will simpy kill off the gants and force No Retreat! wounds on the Fex. It seems obvious but I have made that mistake and the Fex paid for it with his life...

Pyrovore- This unit seems odd and counter intuitive to me. Why does it have a power weapon if it only has one attack? Even worse its weapon is very short range, meaning if it doesn't assault, it will be assaulted next turn regardless. So they're units you bring for their ranged weapon, that somehow end up in a scrap anyway... WAARRRRD!!!

But no, seriously, if they had two attacks each this combo would make a tad more sense, but they don't, and it doesn't, and there are many more Elite choices that do their job and for cheaper. Does that help?

Lictors - Well this unit took a hit with their losing their insta-charge.. Or did they? Don't forget that they still get to shoot when they show up and they can get a very easy shot at the rear armour of those Rhinos. That seems like a worthy sacrifice for a Lictor for me. 

Also there are many units which you will wish that you could reach in the backfield but can't. Reapers, Whirlwinds, Basiliks, Manticore, Broadsides and as much as you *could* deep strike a pod behind the enemy and attack these, or use a Trygon, but cheaper and more reliable would be dropping a Lictor into their nice little hidey-hole. Just perfect for their fluff, they leap out of cover, rip a specific target to shreds, then probably die to Bolter fire. Take them with a target in mind, and they won't fail you.

Mawloc - Short answer? There is always going to be a place for a s6 AP2 large blast. 

This one never really became as popular with the advent of Storm Shields and all those 3+ invulnerable saves (WAAAARD!!!) but, like the Lictor, they give you options. For example, wouldn't it be interesting to drive the enemy away from the board edge with the threat of Outflank, only to be exploded by a Mawloc? Hit those Marines hard!

Ultimately, the Tyranids are all about attacking from every way you can at once. It's not enough to threaten the enemy with super-fast Hormagaunts, you need to attack from the flanks with the Genestealers, attack from below with the Trygons and Mawlocs, above with the Drop Pods and attack from everywhere with your Ymgarls and Lictors. If there is one thing they can do better than anyone else, it's overwhelming the enemy with too many targets each one capable of doing too much damage. 

Hope that helped


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## kavyanshrike (Sep 10, 2011)

I played against 2 trygon(or mawloc I can't remember) and a carnifex with a tau player and none of them did anything (he likes playing attrition) the lictor seems like a unit which is used for messing around carnifexs just have a lot of fear being around them so they get targeted too badly and mawlocs are very irritating but you just adapt and keep a lot of firepower around.


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## Tatsumaki (Oct 22, 2009)

As a Tau player myself, I think I would be harder pressed to kill off a 6 wound Trygon, who gives me only one turn to react before he starts nomming on my elite troops, than I would a Carnifex. Fex has less wounds and gives me more time to shoot at him.

However if you were to field that Carnifex with a Venom Cannon,, then suddenly it's a much scarier problem because you're going to Instant Death my XV8's off the table. Have you tried that one?


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## Azwaz (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm loving all this feedback by the way guys, this is wicked. Really expanding my thinking.




> Erm... how? Rippers can't even hurt a Wraithlord, am I right? Even if they've got Poison, Wraithlords have two Flamers + another gun, and Str 10 striking at the same time/before you do. Again, Rippers can't hurt a Land Speeder even if they did hit it. Daemon Prince, maybe (with lucky rolls) but it IDs you, strikes before you, and at such a high WS that you hit back on 5s.


Yeah what Maiden said, toxin sacks for the Wraithlord (He didnt flame them because I'd never killed a wraithlord before, never mind with RIPPERS), Adrenal glands for the land speeder (I couldnt get a destroyed result, but I got so many weapon destroyed/imobilised results that he ran out of things to break) and the Daemon prince, yeah... maybe it was luck, but then in a game based on dice rolls, I'm ok with that : )

...actually, now I think about it, I think the Daemon Prince was in combat with a Pyrovore left over from the turn before, so he tried to kill that... missed with 2 attacks and rolled snake eyes to wound! Even if he had killed it... 1 pyrovore was still all he was killing, my rippers were happy to finish him off. he may have been down to 2 wounds from a previous fight too... but a kill is a kill.




> Carnifex - Personally I think I'd rather use 1 TL devourer and a stranglethorn. Force a pinning test at -1 LD per casualty, sign me up.


Sorry Lord Azune, although I DO like where your coming from, its not -1 per kill... it just caps at -1. clever idea though, I'll think of that combination even if its not off the same model.



A few of you mentioned about using lictors vs tanks... you know it never even crossed my mind, but it certainly will in future. Also I may just use it with the sole purpose of killing or just drawing fire from my friends broadside (I hate that broadside).

Feeling a lot better about how I use some of these, nice to hear that people have used some of them well in the past.





> a cunning opponant will simpy kill off the gants and force No Retreat! wounds on the Fex. It seems obvious but I have made that mistake and the Fex paid for it with his life...


I never, ever, EVER make this mistake Tatsumaki... its almost impossible. Ever since I discovered the 'Fearless Loophole' by nievely popping out some Termagants to help out my Tervigon, committing suicide as a result... this has been a subject of much interrest to me. With some friends I play a 'resolving individual unit combat results' house rule, to avoid the insanity I associate with the Fearless Loophole. I played the rule with some other people but they keep saying it was easier with the standard rules (which it wasnt any easier, but they obviously think I'm trying to get an advantage and are too polite to accuse me of it), so I said fine, so long as I know that putting them in the same fight will unfairly kill my monsterous creatures... I'll avoid that situation at all costs.

...Thanks for the warning though, shame I had to lose the hard way ; )


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## Tatsumaki (Oct 22, 2009)

Haha that's no problem, although I do admit I madethe mistake twice - Once with Tyranids, and once with Chaos Daemons. Who knew Daemonettes can't really slow down Berzerkers? That was a lame way to lost a Keeper of Secrets! 

The point is I've learned now xD


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

I think we all have learned the "dont send in moronic useless units into combats youre winning" rule somehow.

I fucked up a beautiful flank+rearcharge against a unit of Ogres in WHFB many years ago by "helping out" with a unit of zombies in the front.....
Its just like the other classical rule "dont shoot the guards with your berzerkers before you charge them". 25% will die due to wonky dice rolling and they will flee thus leaving you stranded.


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## Lord Azune (Nov 12, 2011)

Azwaz, unless its been FAQ'd (because I dont have access to the FAQ at work, just the codex), the codex says "If an enemy unit suffers one or more casualties because of a devourer and is required to make a Morale Check at the end of the phase, it suffers a -1 penalty to its Leadership." Admittedly after rereading that, the stranglethorn doesn't get the -1 due to not being at the end of the phase. Still seemed like a good idea.


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