# Chaos Warrior unit sizes



## Drax (Sep 19, 2007)

i'm re-starting my WoCs again soon for the first time in this edition and i'm trying to figure out what size i ought to make the chaos warrior units.

i've had success with my beasts with much larger units than before, but i realise that the WoCs are a totally different type of army.

i've looked through the lists and there seem to be differing opinions so i can't tell whether to keep with the 'standard' 15 strong from last edition or whether to increase.

for a frame of reference, my games will generally be either 2,400 or 1,200 points, my list options are pretty open other than dragon ogres and chaos ogres.

please note i'm not asking for a list, but just saying that if the chaos warrior unit sizes depend on the rest of the list these days, i'm still not settled on what the list will be, and can plan around that.

cheers in advance for your help


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

18 in a 6x3 gives you a nice 150mm Frontage, one rank of expendables, and a rank of supporting attacks, for around 300pts.

If you take Throgg, Trolls are decent choices - Ld 8, and he gives them a decent Magical Breath Attack which fucks with those Wraiths and Spirit Hosts which used to be the main problem I found in the past with a troll army. There's no need to take a troll army either, but Throgg is a decent fighter (Vomit/number of high strength attacks + Breath Attack + Stomp), and allows Reroll Breaks and Ld8 for Dogres, Shaggoths, etc within 12", giving you another wider front. M6 makes them nice flank breakers - I run him in a 5 Troll+Throgg unit, (3x2), but have gone up to 10 (5x2) in larger games.

Dragon Ogres, people are too quick to dismiss them. Now, because you can no longer decide to tank up if you take Halberds on your Warriors (MoK can't with Frenzy in any case, so might as well take them, especially with baiting now not as much of an issue (BSB+Ld8 is a fairly decent chance of succeeding)), Dragon Ogres with their AHW+GW combination do extremely well - it's either 4 S5 Attacks, or 3 S7 Attacks each, plus Stomp. Might be worth looking at converting some (I made mine from an Ironguts+Dark Elf Cold Ones).

Chaos Knights have lost their lustre - they can no longer break through enemy ranks (I know I used them to kill the front rank, and then they were fine - now, with Step Up and, Supporting attacks, Spears and Horde, I'm looking at recieving as many attacks as I put out - and despite my higher stats, even losing just one Knight severely weakens their chance of breaking through - 330pts for a Maxed unit of 5 used to win a battle , Frenzied Horses 10 S4 Attacks and 16 S5 Attacks used to kill the front rank easily - the 2-3 return attacks did Sweet FA - but 10-15 Return Attacks is a killer).

Also, I never leave home without 2x Tzeentch Shrines now.


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## Cheese meister (Jun 5, 2010)

i tend to like 24 which gives you the rank bonuses and means after kills your more likely to ignore steadfast


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

l have benn running them as 21 men by 7x3 still have had the most luck with that


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Dunno about percentages and math and shit like that but I run my Warrior units in 18 man squads and they seem to do well enough for me.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

My personal preference is to never take less than 20 in a unit, it's too easy to lose a rank to shooting, and then you: 

1. Can't remove steadfast
2. Lose out on supporting attacks because the third rank + a bit is dead
3. Take a lot of attacks back, killing a few more

I would expect a unit of 18 Warriors to kill 1 enemy unit per game (excluding things like skirmishers and war machines). My unit of 30 frequently kills 3-4 big enemy units, making it somewhere between half again and twice as effective as the smaller unit.

Also, the bigger the unit, the less you spend on Marks, Commands and Magic banners. It also keeps them in range of your general and BSB. That's my opinion, anyway.


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## Cheese meister (Jun 5, 2010)

i think you have to get the balance right between number of units and killing power of each unit which is something you will have to experiment with


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## Kulzanar (Aug 10, 2010)

The number of ranks and the width of ranks for warriors quite varies from playstyle to playstyle. 

Ofcourse there's no question as to what you want them to do, the answer is kill, maim, burn,....hmm perhaps going a bit to far into the future. Anyway, the question is, are the expendable to you or not? Do you mind losing them after a few rounds of combat or not?

It also depends on what weapons you give them. As you could see 3x6 or 3x7 is the most chosen option as this maximizes attacks, allows for a shooting/magic casulty or two and still hold ranks. I used to play 6x3 as well, three blocks of nurgle with shields. Now they are great tank units and can deal out quite a punch. But I found out that str 4 doesn't always do the trick, especially not against more elite troops. So the things you need to ask yourself are, is it worth it to maximize attacks with the equipment i have? Can I afford to lose them or not? (this might influence your decision of maximizing attacks to get more CR, or to get more ranks (so 5x4) to get your steadfast.)

5x4 is effective with shields, great tanking unit with good save, steadfast, still a steady 16 attacks, 21 with frenzy banner.

6x3 works good when having a sorcerer or anything inside it, more protection cause more warriors have a chance of obliterating the unit. Also best way to maximize attacks. Units with FC tend to go up to 350pts though.

7x3 is a personal choice, with 8th edition other armies also put larger units on the field, also ranked on 6 or 7. Just don't forget your base is 25x25 and the others mostly 20x20 (considering the more popular armies now). And it wouldn't be the first time, I've had a fussy opponent about every 0.001 inch (as a matter of speech, even though they are right, it's annoying like hell). Though this is an absolute maximize of attacks.

Everything higher is a waste up to horde rules, then it get interesting again.

To give an idea, I field 2 10man units of khorne warriors with halberds. I can afford to lose them (but I rather do some damage first). They are a small target so will never be much shot or magic'd at. Worth around 200 points and hit with 20 attacks I5 WS5 at str 5 at their best, good enough against most armies (except for those pesky high elves).

So that's what I have to say about it, it's not really a direct answer but one thing I learned about warhammer is that lots of things are personal choice, when you feel good with it, you go for it. So I just gave you some info, the playing and testing is up to you. Enjoy it, and ofc glory for the dark gods :wink:


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## Drax (Sep 19, 2007)

thanks for your replies guys - i've been mulling them over and playing about with lists and i tried out a 1,200 point list last night which consisted of an 18 strong unit with halberds, shields, banner of rage and full command.

i ran them alongside a 40 strong tzeentchian marauder unit, a 5 strong khornate knight unit and a exalted champ.

i was really pleased with their performance but since i was up against the VCs, the shields (being only a precaution against ranged shooting) were a little redundant.

have made a couple of tweaks to the list, for instance for some reason i gave the exalted a beserker sword then put him in the unit with banner of rage - go figure! and i plan to try out th list a couple more times against a few different foes before trying some different unit sizes as suggested.

thanks again for your assistance.!


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Did you also give him mark of Khorne, just to make him REALLY angry? :laugh:


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## Drax (Sep 19, 2007)

ooh, didn't think of that. seemed a little redundant doubling up on frenzy


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

You mean it doesn't give you +3 Attacks and make you take 3 leadership tests to restrain per turn? I've been doing it wrong... :laugh:

(That was a joke, for the rules lawyers who are about to jump on me)


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

I've found 18 works really well for me, but unlike the previous poster, I use 3x5 with 3 refillers at the back. Generally where I play the units don't get a lot wider than 6 25mm bases tops, so 5 across works well. It also allows for full ranks that don't evaporate after the first volley of missile fire.

To be honest though I run a strange list.


Hero + jugger
Hero + steed

Chaos giant

3 x 18 warriors of khorne + shields

2x 4 Chaos Trolls

+ sundry knights or extra heroes


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## Freedirtyneedles (Oct 22, 2009)

did a huge unit of 70 today, 10x7 ran em Tz with the blasted standard and hw shield. they stomped EVERYTHING that came after them. was a fun experiment in points denial. had 2 heroes with em as well.(tz sorc and a kitted out bsb.) a unit of that size has a way of making someone crap their pants, but it is an all eggs in one basket aproach.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Freedirtyneedles said:


> did a huge unit of 70 today, 10x7 ran em Tz with the blasted standard and hw shield. they stomped EVERYTHING that came after them. was a fun experiment in points denial. had 2 heroes with em as well.(tz sorc and a kitted out bsb.) a unit of that size has a way of making someone crap their pants, but it is an all eggs in one basket aproach.


sounds scary but if people take the right magic its gg hell even the right cannon ball or 2 will get them back so many points even with a 4+ ward save granted though you will chop though people in CqC


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Freedirtyneedles said:


> did a huge unit of 70 today, 10x7 ran em Tz with the blasted standard and hw shield. they stomped EVERYTHING that came after them. was a fun experiment in points denial. had 2 heroes with em as well.(tz sorc and a kitted out bsb.) a unit of that size has a way of making someone crap their pants, but it is an all eggs in one basket aproach.


I want to play you with my Level 4 Tzeentch Sorc on a Disc with Gateway! :biggrin:


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Sethis said:


> I want to play you with my Level 4 Tzeentch Sorc on a Disc with Gateway! :biggrin:


Sethis your evil know no bounds,

but back to the topic l whould never take more then 30 Warrior in a unit as they cost so much points and any kind of unit base magic will deal far to much damage for points cost


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## Kulzanar (Aug 10, 2010)

Actually most unit spells are str hits or str, toughness or initiative tests. When it comes to warriors they have quite a good chance of withstanding such magic and they can keep going forward. Ofcourse one lucky infernal gateway and it's bye bye. But what are the odds of playing against another WoC with infernal gateway, who casts it and then rolls the required number. 

Just to change some views about large units, though I'm not a big fan of them as well. 20-30 is what I like.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Kulzanar said:


> Actually most unit spells are str hits or str, toughness or initiative tests. When it comes to warriors they have quite a good chance of withstanding such magic


 ture but gateway is not the only one, Curse of the laper will wipe out the unit in 4 truns and make them usless in 2 and even somthing small like fire cage it will hold the unit for one trun or if he moves he will lose alot of men.

and just rember sure sth 3 is not that high but getting 70 hits with it still hurts


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## Freedirtyneedles (Oct 22, 2009)

if curse of the leper lasts more than 1 turn I deserve to lose the game.The army that fields that crazy block is'nt helpless in the magic phase either. yeah it has some major flaws, but it's fun to be able to field a big block like that...and like I said it was an experiment in points denial. In the campaign we are running that list is undefeated atm.


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

Freedirtyneedles said:


> if curse of the leper lasts more than 1 turn I deserve to lose the game.


l dont see how you can remove it in the new 8th ed but still l am going to do a test run with 70 Warriors with 3 diffent ways and see how it goes going though diffent set ups / objectives


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## bdipauly (Dec 25, 2010)

Don't you just dispel remains in play spells?


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