# Eldar vs. horde



## billybox (May 17, 2011)

I'm not sure if this is more of tactics question or an Army list one...

I had a game last night. A combined force of Eldar and Marines (1600) vs a ton of Tyranids. Things I've read of late have practically dismissed the 'Nids as an outmoded force, waiting for a new 'Dex. 

It could be my relative inexperience with 5th, but they ate us alive. Used cover well, took a few shots, and stayed out of the range of most of us until they jumped in and tore us all apart. I'm wondering if I simply didn't have the right guys on the board. 

With my 800ish points I had Eldrad and three Warlocks, 10 DAs in a Serpent, 5 Pathfinders, 4 Reapers (exarch w/tempest and crack). I knew to leave the Fire Dragons at home, but with them was the Falcon, which could have chewed some bug. I avoided my CC troops since I figured nobody could compete with the 'Nids anyhow. I feel like I didn't get much for my money, and it was totally ineffective. But then maybe that was partially (or fully) due to the immobility of the all the Pathfinders and Reapers, both of whom I thought would do a little more. Same with Eldrad's crew. When the Genestealers flanked onto the board right next to them, they were toast. 

Easily the best investment was the 250ish points of Avenger and Serpent. 

Since I will probably play this army a few more times, I'd like to fix it. Perhaps jetbikes? I don't have walkers. The opponent (who plays Eldar as well) suggested a Wraithlord. Or maybe swapping the Eldrads for an Avatar. 

Thoughts?


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

You'll find that adding more Scatter Lasers / Shruican Cannon's will help your Hoard problem out. Against 'Nids with Eldar, you should be avoiding combat at all costs.

At 800 points, there is no way you should have Eldrad and Warlocks. Use him as a normal Farseer instead. Everything else seems like it would be good against 'Nids, but I would debate swapping the Tempest Launcher for an EML really. Fast Shot gives 2 S4 AP4 blasts which cause pinning and will destroy smaller 'Nid bugs with ease, and also gives 2 S8 AP3 shots for the bigger bugs.

Try and add 3 War Walkers with Shruican Cannons. Lots of firepower, and will even be able to kill the MC's as well. Don't forget to guide them for maximum effect  
A Wraithlord might help as well, 2 Flamers and an EML would do the trick. I'd be worried about the Gaunts having Toxic Sacs, which give them 4+ poisoned attacks.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

billybox said:


> I'm not sure if this is more of tactics question or an Army list one...


Probably both. It's rare for someone to lose entirely because of their list, there are almost always tactical choices that could have been made better and so on.



> I had a game last night. A combined force of Eldar and Marines (1600) vs a ton of Tyranids. Things I've read of late have practically dismissed the 'Nids as an outmoded force, waiting for a new 'Dex.


Only at the highest levels do Tyranids struggle. In more casual games, any army is a force to be reckoned with.



> It could be my relative inexperience with 5th, but they ate us alive. Used cover well, took a few shots, and stayed out of the range of most of us until they jumped in and tore us all apart. I'm wondering if I simply didn't have the right guys on the board.


Sounds like a mix of being outplayed and not having all the right tools for the job.



> With my 800ish points I had Eldrad and three Warlocks, 10 DAs in a Serpent, 5 Pathfinders, 4 Reapers (exarch w/tempest and crack). I knew to leave the Fire Dragons at home, but with them was the Falcon, which could have chewed some bug. I avoided my CC troops since I figured nobody could compete with the 'Nids anyhow. I feel like I didn't get much for my money, and it was totally ineffective. But then maybe that was partially (or fully) due to the immobility of the all the Pathfinders and Reapers, both of whom I thought would do a little more. Same with Eldrad's crew. When the Genestealers flanked onto the board right next to them, they were toast.


I would think that the Pathfinders and Reapers could go. Both are pretty good at killing the big guys true, but due to their static nature they tend to be very vulnerable to a lot of the Tyranid units. Genestealers, Lictors, Mawlocs and so on are all really good at getting to units entrenched in their opponent's deployment zone.



> Easily the best investment was the 250ish points of Avenger and Serpent.


Not really surprising, Avengers tend to be good at gunning down Gaunts and stuff.



> Since I will probably play this army a few more times, I'd like to fix it. Perhaps jetbikes? I don't have walkers. The opponent (who plays Eldar as well) suggested a Wraithlord. Or maybe swapping the Eldrads for an Avatar.
> 
> Thoughts?


You need maneuverable firepower. Avengers in Serpents, Fire Dragons in Serpents, Vypers, Falcons, Fire Prisms, things that can both move fast and shoot are what you'll need to stay out of reach of the Tyranid's nasty gribblies and shoot down those that try to pursue, all while dealing crippling blows to the Nids that are able to shoot at you to bring you down. Eldar are really expensive points-wise right now so it's going to be really difficult to do all this, so ensure that your Space Marine ally is pulling his fair share of the weight. Also, I'd suggest coming up with rules where both you and your ally share a FoC if the Tyranids are only using a single FoC so that you can spend less points on Troops and more points on things that can kill Tyrands.


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

Don't use a Wraithlord to go against Nids. Tyranids have enough poison and rending to totally screw over your T8 monster. 

If you don't have the Walkers to spam S6 shots just stick with Dire Avengers to mow down the little bugs. Genestealers, gaunts, or any little bug will crumble under the weight of fire that these guys can lay down. Utilize Doom to make sure that you get enough wounds to get past whatever saves they may have. A simple Doom/Guide Seer will work for this, Eldrad is really too pricey for this and in all honesty should almost never take his Warlocks.

Fire Dragons can always have a place in Eldar lists these days, in this case it is for hunting down the big bugs and Warriors.

You should discuss with your partner and try to build lists that work well together. You cannot afford to take your best units to be ready for anything when you have to be ready for an enemy that can afford to take everything. Katie's idea of dividing up the FoC might help with this. But just see if you can focus on downing the little guys and the Marine player can go after the bigger ones.

What options are you working with? Sometimes people are just completely limited due to what they can and cannot field. In this instance, you can't use War Walkers even though they could prove very useful in this situation.


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## Xela (Dec 22, 2010)

Fire Prisms and Dire Avengers, my friend plays Eldar and those are the things are hurt my army the most because Dire Avengers can pour out shots while staying on the move and Fire Prisms, with their two different kinds of shots can hurt both MCs and the swarm. Try a Night Spinner as well


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## billybox (May 17, 2011)

I've got no Walkers or Prisms, and I just got my first Wraithlord. 

I've got a 1st edition army that I've updated since I started playing again. So available to me are hordes of Guardians, weapons platforms, Storm Guardians, Fire Dragons (Yay!), and Harlequins. I also have some Scorpions, Banshees, Hawks, Warlocks, Avengers (20ish), a couple Wave Serpents, a couple Falcons, several guardian jetbikes, pathfinders, reapers, a couple phoenix lords, an avatar, and probably some other odds and ends. 

What you guys said about splitting the FOC with the Marines we basically did. I was more asking for me, since we may not play together every time. We definitely goofed tactically though, as he tied up the marines with little guys and launched the big guys at me, other than the Gargoyles, which the DAs tore up.

On a side note, I thought I read a rule where the EML could only fire one type on ammo in an engagement. Is that true?

I was thinking maybe load up both Wave Serpents with Avengers, loading the Falcons with Dragons, add a Guardian Bike Squad, and go full-on speed freak. How would you flesh that out?


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

EML's can switch ammo types every turn if they want. There isn't a rule that keeps it any one way.


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## lurtz007 (Jul 6, 2011)

I really like to use Swooping Hawks against any kind of swarm army. Their strength isn't very good, but they can really get around the board and keep themselves out of close combat with Skyleap.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

lurtz007 said:


> I really like to use Swooping Hawks against any kind of swarm army. Their strength isn't very good, but they can really get around the board and keep themselves out of close combat with Skyleap.


The problem with that is that although you can use the Skyleap-descend-grenade tactic, the Bugs are not completely ranged weapon-less. Even a hail of fire from Termagants can bring a squad of Hawks down, and the points are, in my opinion, better spent on other units. If it's bulk of shots you want, take Warp Spiders instead. Higher Strength guns, JSJ, and more survivable to boot. Although adimittedly Dire Avengers are still the Eldar infantry kings of torrent (Scatter Lasers beat them by a margin, however. Three War Walkers with dual Scatters Lasers rip through nids, even the bigger ones). You might want Missiles instead, though.

Midnight


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## billybox (May 17, 2011)

Well, thanks to eBay, I've got two Walkers on the way...

And finally a reason to paint my Hawks!


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