# what stories have not yet been told in the HH series?



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Apart from the works that have been released or announced, what other stories are essential (or at least important) to the grand plot of the Horus Heresy ?

I'm sure the good folks at Black Library have given this plenty of thought, but what stories do you guys think should have high priority?

Off the top of my head:

the Siege of Terra
maybe a few more legion-specific novels exploring the history and character of less fleshed-out legions (I'm hoping that the Iron Warriors and White Scars get fleshed out)

anything else? novels about Signus and Calth have been announced, what other major events?


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## Lord Mephiston (Sep 16, 2010)

Only other thing that comes to mind that hasnt been announced is Space Wolves getting unexpected help to return to Terra in time for the siege, while being locked in combat with Alpha Legion.

And Lion vs. Luther, but that's right after the heresy.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

The Secret War would be nice (Custodes & Sisters of Silence Vs. the endless daemonic hordes of Chaos set in the Imperial Webway), as would the tail end of the Chondax campaign (where the White Scars finally find out about the Heresy and rush for Terra dodging ambushes on the way).


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## Worldkiller (Jun 16, 2010)

Wasn't there something where Dorn sends Sigismund and some IF companies to find out what the hell is going on in the Isstvan system after Garro is found, and the IW attack them?


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Off the top of my head not so much events but important fluff that should feature

The damnation of the death guard
The Khornate corruption of the world eaters
Fabius going merc from the ECs


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I know its very unlikely I would like there to be one novel for every legion at least. Chances are some like the Iron Hands are small since their part has mostly played out already. However Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Salamanders, White Scars, Imperial Fists and World Eaters are certainly possible.

On a related note to the Salamanders I would like to know how Vulkan escapes Isstvan 5. In the BT codex it states he was one of the primarchs to disagree with Guilleman's Codex Astartes but it is never explained how he got there.


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## RudeAwakening79 (Oct 20, 2008)

Interesting question; I was wondering myself how many books the whole series will produce.
Looking at the upcoming books, I count Fear to Tread as number 21 in the series. We all know the siege of terra will end the series, but when we'll arrive there is anybody's guess. Maybe 30 books in total?

Although I really can't wait untill the great siege, that will also mean that the series will be finished...and then what? Will there be another reason to keep on living?


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> The Secret War would be nice (Custodes & Sisters of Silence Vs. the endless daemonic hordes of Chaos set in the Imperial Webway), as would the tail end of the Chondax campaign (where the White Scars finally find out about the Heresy and rush for Terra dodging ambushes on the way).


those two subplots sound really cool

The Secret War would be a cool diversion...however if it comes too late in the series, it will feel a bit out of place 

A WS novel would finally flesh out this rather neglected legion
I'm glad that the Raven Guard finally get their own HH novel



Lord Mephiston said:


> Space Wolves getting unexpected help to return to Terra in time for the siege, while being locked in combat with Alpha Legion.


I think we might get this, especially since the puppies are a popular legion



> And Lion vs. Luther, but that's right after the heresy.


yeah, but as you mentioned it's post-Heresy
After the Heresy, BL might publish a series about The Scouring, Lion vs. Luther would fit nicely in that series



Barnster said:


> The Khornate corruption of the world eaters


hasn't been announced, but ADB is doing Butcher's Nails (which has been announced) _and_ a full-length WE HH novel
I think it's safe to assume that the latter or both will cover the legion's corruption 



> Fabius going merc from the ECs


not sure if this would justify a full novel



RudeAwakening79 said:


> Although I really can't wait untill the great siege, that will also mean that the series will be finished...and then what? Will there be another reason to keep on living?


series about The Scouring, Nova Terra Interregnum (anyone know how this affair is related to the Age of Apostasy?), The Age of Apostasy, maybe a Badab War trilogy


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

As Baron said, the Secret War and the White Scars from Chondax onwards would be great. The former would pretty much fill the role of a Custodes/Sisters of Silence novel, which theres been alot of requests for. The latter would be a brilliant opportunity to flesh out the White Scard and the Khan. Having the Khan emerge from a succesful campaign only to find the Imperium and his brothers at war. We already know Russ petitions him for help, but would be great to see one of the traitor Primarchs trying to convince Khan of their cause aswell(especially as Horus thought he would side with them), then showing Khans decision to stay loyal and having to eschew helping Russ to make it to Terra.

Though it could be a slow paced book, i would quite like to see an Imperial Fist novel, starting from when they are ordered to Terra to begin reinforcing it. Seeing their reaction to leaving the Crusade, how they go about militarising the Palace and Terra. Then at the same time detailing the fleet under Sigismund that was sent to Istvaan to assess what had transpired(perhaps finding Tarvitz?) and then being ambushed by the Iron Warriors and their esacape back to Terra.

I think Garro, Loken and the rest of the astartes Garro is gathering for Malcador could do with their own novel, fleshing out what their purpose is and their actions during the Heresy.

The Death Guards corruption and degeneration into the Plague Marines would be an awesome novel aswell i reckon. 

Not sure what could really be done about the Iron Hands and Iron Warriors tbh. The formers role in the Heresy has already been done really, supose how they cope with the loss of their Primarch could be explored, but that could easily be covered in a short story in another Age of Darkness style novel along with other minor stories that still need to be explored.

On that note, another Tales of Heresy/Age of Darkness novel would be good to have. They are a brilliant way of detailing some of the events of the Heresy that whilst important, can't really be made into a full novel.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Massacre of Olympius. Hinted at in _The First Heretic_ that Word Bearer agents were amok on the Iron Warriors' homeworld.


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## Schmockie (Dec 21, 2010)

Oh yeah, Olympus masscre would be great.
Other then that I think there are still a lot of holes to fill:
-What happened to Vulkan on/after Istvaan?
-What did the IH do after Istvaan? They aren't mentioned anywhere after that though they are a legion that came out of Istvaan with only minimal losses (in numbers).


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## M3N0N26 (Sep 18, 2008)

I agree with the point you made about the Iron Hands, for a LEGION that only lost ~1000 Marines, albeit their Terminator Veterans and Primarch, they still should possess a boatload of power, so their absence from the rest of the heresy is confusing and needs fleshing out.

Things I would like to see :

-Massacre of Olympia
-Destruction of Nostramo (IIRC this was done before the siege?)
-Marooning of Mortarions Death Guard in the warp and subsequent pledging of their forces to Nurgle
-White Scars, their forced decision to leave the SW to fight the AL and warp jump to Terra
-Vulkan/Sallies, what on earth were they doing on Istvaan and how did he get out of there alive, if indeed he did at all.
-Would be interesting to hear how Rogal Dorn/IF dealt with the news of the impending siege and the subsequent preparations for it
-Siege of Terra of course


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

I would like to see Mortarion's reasons for joining Horus explored further. At the moment his motivations are very much unknown. Related to this is the succumbing of the Death Guard's tragic fall. 

I'd also like to see Kharn's decent from noble, intelligent warrior to frothing madman of Khrone. Perhaps both it and Mortarion's decision to join Horus could be covered in a future anthology. 

Previous mentioned worthy topics are the Secret War, Chondax and the Fist's Praetorian role.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I think the ambush of the Imperial Fist fleet might be Graham McNeil's next novel. I think its "Angels Exterminatus." Mr. McNeil was kind enough to say that it was revolving around the Emperor's Children and Iron Warriors. 

Plus, the Advent Calender is showing the next heresy novel. If you look at the current open parts, you will see what looks like to be an Imperial Fist, and an Iron Warrior in space. Not sure about the Emperor's Children, but some of the pics on the left, show some nice looking decorated armor. Could be Emperor's Children.

So maybe new fluff will make it that two legions ambush the Imperial Fists?


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## Atyaman (Feb 18, 2011)

ckcrawford said:


> Plus, the Advent Calender is showing the next heresy novel. If you look at the current open parts, you will see what looks like to be an Imperial Fist, and an Iron Warrior in space. Not sure about the Emperor's Children, but some of the pics on the left, show some nice looking decorated armor. Could be Emperor's Children.
> 
> So maybe new fluff will make it that two legions ambush the Imperial Fists?


Do you mean this picture?








Ehh... I still can't figure out who's who on it :scratchhead:


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

That's without a doubt an Imperial Fist, and whilst it's not fully conclusive, i would wager that's an Iron Warrior aswell going off the yellow and black hazard markings that the Legions often adopts on its armour and equipment.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Graham McNeil says his new novel is off of Primarchs. The Iron Warriors and Emperors Children are sent into "dangerous space" for reasons unknown and don't get along at the end.


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## empyrean (Mar 8, 2011)

Somebody on facebook mentioned the possibility of the advent calendar cover being for the Battle of Phall. Imperial Fists versus Iron Warriors.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Not sure what could really be done about the Iron Hands and Iron Warriors tbh. The formers role in the Heresy has already been done really, supose how they cope with the loss of their Primarch could be explored, but that could easily be covered in a short story in another Age of Darkness style novel along with other minor stories that still need to be explored.


I think the remainder of the tale of the Iron Hands would be fascinating. Ferrus Manus was the first Primarch to be killed, considering the mindset of the Legions at the time its difficult to comprehend what effect Isstvan would have had on the X Legion. It also opens up a completely new avenue to explore, after Isstvan there is no mention whatsoever of the activities of the Iron Hands, but the remainder of the Legion must have been involved to some extent (considering only the veteran companies were massacred). 



M3N0N26 said:


> -Destruction of Nostramo (IIRC this was done before the siege?)


The destruction of Nostramo occured before the Heresy.

Personally I would most look forward to a White Scars novel.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Personally I would most look forward to a White Scars novel.


hear, hear

the Fifth Legion is in desperate need of some fleshing out


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Schmockie said:


> Oh yeah, Olympus masscre would be great.
> Other then that I think there are still a lot of holes to fill:
> -What happened to Vulkan on/after Istvaan?
> -What did the IH do after Istvaan? They aren't mentioned anywhere after that though they are a legion that came out of Istvaan with only minimal losses (in numbers).


You're implying the relative numerical losses of the Iron Hands during the Dropsite-Massacre allowed them to remain key-players in the Horus Heresy.

This isn't true.

The Iron Hands suffered worse losses than the Raven Guard and Salamanders. Sources are conflicting in nature and I may have mislabelled them, but we can summarise into these two accounts:


The entire Iron Hands _Legion_ was effectively destroyed at Isstvan V (Source: _The First Heretic_/_Prospero Burns_/_Age of Darkness_)
The entire Iron Hands _contingent_ at Isstvan V was effectively destroyed (Source: _Fulgrim_). 

Even if the latter is true, the entire elite of a Legion annihilated would still render any further contributions to the Heresy obsolete. The loss of Veteran Astartes warriors and hand-picked Terminator squadrons, Dreadnoughts spanning the entire Great Crusade in knowledge and memory, and the death of the Legion's _Primarch_ is far too damaging to a Legion's infrastructure for it to recuperate and begin to function for at least centuries, if not millennia to come. 

Despite the _Legiocide_ both suffered, we _know_ the Raven Guard and Salamanders forces survived Isstvan V - the same cannot be said for the Iron Hands contingent. The impression I get is that a Primarch's pragmatism is of incredible and often underrated worth. Without this guiding, fatherly hand for the Iron Hands, they could do nothing beyond defend the Imperium's worlds on a small, and frankly irrelevant scale. For example, _Little Horus_.


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## Marcoos (Sep 26, 2010)

Whilst I wouldn't say the IH losses were minimal at Istvaan V, they were relatively less than the RG and Salamanders because the IH only had a smaller proportion of their forces on Istvaan (source: Fulgrim). We know there were IH forces still in the Heresy from the Age of Darkness story, Little Horus. I think the operation of this legion after Istvaan could be a great story if handled well, we know they will righteously hate the traitors as well as being resentful of the RG and Salamanders, and we know they revered Ferrus, so struggling with all that could be compelling.


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## M3N0N26 (Sep 18, 2008)

bobss said:


> The entire Iron Hands _Legion_ was effectively destroyed at Isstvan V (Source: _The First Heretic_/_Prospero Burns_/_Age of Darkness_)




Wrong. It is clearly stated that Ferrus left the majority of his legion behind and took his fastest ship (_Ferrum_) and took ten companies of his Morlock Terminators. The IH comprised the smallest force on Istvaan out of the three legions sent for this reason. The losses were almost total, and very few Morlocks made it out alive (if any at all), and they lost their Primarch as we all know. Whilst the loss of their Primarch is a substantial loss, as well as their veteran elites, it still is unexplained why the large majority of the legion that remained behind, were not involved in the rest of the heresy, its very unlikely that the Emperor would not have utilized their forces in some way.

Besides, I have read and re read both _A Thousand Sons_ and _The First Heretic_ and their accounts concur with that of _Fulgrim_, that Ferrus only took his veterans with him to the massacre. I may be wrong, so if you could provide a quote from the book(s) that would be brilliant to clear this up a little haha.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

M3N0N26 said:


> Wrong. It is clearly stated that Ferrus left the majority of his legion behind and took his fastest ship (_Ferrum_) and took ten companies of his Morlock Terminators.


where is it stated? not disagreeing with you but would love a source


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Fulgrim pg.456
"Ten companies of Morlocks were berthed throughout the _Ferrum_, the deadliest and most experienced warriors in the Legion....."

The rest of the expedition is said to be following close behind, but the assault is started without them as they can't afford to delay.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Index Astartes also states that Ferrus took only his swftest ships and veteran troops, the rest of the Legion too late to take part in the attack.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Fulgrim pg.456
> "Ten companies of Morlocks were berthed throughout the _Ferrum_, the deadliest and most experienced warriors in the Legion....."
> 
> The rest of the expedition is said to be following close behind, but the assault is started without them as they can't afford to delay.


ok, but is it clear that the Morlocks were the only forces with Ferrus or part of the forces with Ferrus?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Index Astartes also states that Ferrus took only his swftest ships and veteran troops, the rest of the Legion too late to take part in the attack.


As does the _Collected Visions_ I believe.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

MontytheMighty said:


> ok, but is it clear that the Morlocks were the only forces with Ferrus or part of the forces with Ferrus?


Yep, the Morlocks were the only ones with Ferrus. Infact the _Ferrum_ was the only ship they took, it being the fastest ship and the one which suffered the least amount of damage from Fulgrims betrayal.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Nostramo happened, as CotE said, before the Heresy even begun.  And the aduio drama does give it credit if you ask me as does not have to be retold twice.

- Iron Warriors desctrution of Olympia is what I want to find out about.
- White Scars forced into doubt abotu which side to goe for was interesting, even though the Legion itself isnt that particularly attractive from my P.O.V.
- Death Guards last surrender before complete corruption.
- Imperial Fists sent to Isstvan and probably caught in a trap.
- More of Fulgrim (but its already confirmed).
- The crusade between the Lion and Curze which ADB has mentioned quite a few times.
- More about Horus during the heresy.
- Alpha Legion.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

To be honest, I want a break from the Heresy. It might be that over the course of about 3 weeks, I've read from Book 1 to Fallen Angels (10, or 11 or something?), and might be getting a bit tired of some of the inanity of Graham McNeil's page long descriptions over how beautiful the 2 girls are who just so happen to like spending time with the fat ugly writer (oh, snap) and Dan Abnett precious most precious precious (read the descriptions of the 6 armed platinum armoured army commanders and his 3 army sub-commanders wearing 3 other precious metals), but I want to find out more about how the Emperor found his Primarchs.

We've had how Kharn became equerry to Angron, which I think is the earliest tale in the entire storyline - but I actually would like to hear about the exploits of the primarch's leading up to their "retrieval" by the Big E - for example Vulkan's tale is fairly well established, as is Angrons, Leman Russ and Alpharius' to a lesser extent from what I can remember from Index Astartes.

But for example, how the Khan lead the Mathuli against the Palatine, and how Horus became his worlds leader etc.

As for other stories, I'm actually getting some chapters down when I feel the urge to write in the hope to get something published about the Badab Seccession. Not so much a trilogy like Fantasy, but in a series similar to how the Heresy is written.

The Red Scorpions and Exorcists have been firm favourites of mine for a while, and with the Badab Books, learning about the Astral Claws (Huron having been promoted to pirate status rather than ooh I'm an angry poncy chaos lord with anger issues at the imperium - and pirate status because; pirates fucking trounce ninja's), Minotaurs, and Carcharadons (I must be the only person who likes their new name) became easily my favourite chapter.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Thinking about it, seeing more of Horus himself throughout the Age of Darkness is needed. We havn't really seen much of him at all beyond Isstvan V, yet in those seven years he changes drastically. We go from Horus the rebel, to Horus of Chaos. Even in Abnett's _Little Horus_ we see no elements of corruption amongst the Sons of Horus Legion, it just seems strange (especially considering corruption was being introduced prior to the Isstvan campaigns).


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## Xisor (Oct 1, 2011)

Expected novel:

*On The Thirteenth of Secundus*
_The Bombardment Began_


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Minotaurs, and Carcharadons


overall, I like the Badab War fluff...but I don't like how the FW writers [email protected] certain chapters (Minotaurs, Carcharodons, Executioners, etc.) by portraying them as these super-awesome face-destroyers who steam-roll other chapters with ease


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

M3N0N26 said:


> Wrong. It is clearly stated that Ferrus left the majority of his legion behind and took his fastest ship (_Ferrum_) and took ten companies of his Morlock Terminators. The IH comprised the smallest force on Istvaan out of the three legions sent for this reason. The losses were almost total, and very few Morlocks made it out alive (if any at all), and they lost their Primarch as we all know. Whilst the loss of their Primarch is a substantial loss, as well as their veteran elites, it still is unexplained why the large majority of the legion that remained behind, were not involved in the rest of the heresy, its very unlikely that the Emperor would not have utilized their forces in some way.
> 
> Besides, I have read and re read both _A Thousand Sons_ and _The First Heretic_ and their accounts concur with that of _Fulgrim_, that Ferrus only took his veterans with him to the massacre. I may be wrong, so if you could provide a quote from the book(s) that would be brilliant to clear this up a little haha.


The enlightenment is appreciated.


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## increaso (Jun 5, 2010)

Events and things i'd like to see:

Iron Warriors at Tallarn (although I can't see this and the destruction of Olympia - one or the other I suspect).

Exploration of Death Guard and Iron Warriors decision to side with Horus.

Exploration of Horus - the Horus monologue at the very beginning of CV No.2 gives a very different view of Horus than what we see towards the end of the heresy. I'd loved to see more of what his plans were post-victory.

More of what's going through Guilliman's head in the 7 years gap - perhaps with some interaction with The Lion.

I'd like to see a good few books cover the Siege of Terra, but distinct events. e.g. Emperor's Children roaming Terra and slaughtering those not held up in the Imperial Palace, White Scars at the Lions Gate Spaceport, and the central events (in their own trilogy).


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