# IG help against DE



## jjakaalbinoboy (May 24, 2012)

Hey folks, having trouble defeating my mates DE, they're fast and make it into shooting range T1/2, disembark an tear my guardsmen apart in CC. I've heard advice that I need more armour and Hydras?


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

if you want to be a dick, take vets in valkyries and outflank the entire army 

otherwise have more armour and autocannons, +hyrdas and/or executioner LR's


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## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

More armour ain't that reliable due to lance.

Mass autocannons, you can't go far wrong with autocannons, as many as you can get in guard squads and heavy weapon teams (this is my preference as I feel taking 2 lasgun shots out of units wastes FRF,SRF), combine squads, give a "bring it down" order, and watch the transports drop from the sky.

Hydras I would only suggest if you can afford them.

But chimeras are still great, you can hide in them and blast away with a multilaser or FW autocannon


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Definitely Hydras, because they ignore the Flat Out save and will still rip through AV11. Take out the Ravagers first - if you can do that without losing many tanks, you should have an easier time fr the rest of the game.

Midnight


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

it seems that the guy he's playing against dosnt use range that much, correct me if im wrong OP, and if you take chimeras it dosnt make that much difference as they are AV12 anyway so the lance dosnt do anything. and the DE lances are only S8 so its not a reliable weapon unless you spam it


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## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

Precisely, taking av12 as standard wastes the built in pts cost of the lance ability, and a str8 shot reducing your armour is still more reliable than even a str8-9 one that doesn't, which if I recall DE don't have.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

Sakura_ninja said:


> More armour ain't that reliable due to lance.
> 
> Mass autocannons, you can't go far wrong with autocannons, as many as you can get in guard squads and heavy weapon teams (this is my preference as I feel taking 2 lasgun shots out of units wastes FRF,SRF), combine squads, give a "bring it down" order, and watch the transports drop from the sky.
> 
> ...





Sakura_ninja said:


> Precisely, taking av12 as standard wastes the built in pts cost of the lance ability, and a str8 shot reducing your armour is still more reliable than even a str8-9 one that doesn't, which if I recall DE don't have.


your second post contradicts your first as in the first you say that armour is pointless, yet in the second you support more armour??

the problem with taking HWS is their poor LD dosnt help with orders, and they cant take Vox-casters which again dosnt help with the LD tests


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

Also, S9 dark eldar weapon? Void Lances on the Voidraven bomber.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Sakura_ninja said:


> Precisely, taking av12 as standard wastes the built in pts cost of the lance ability, and a str8 shot reducing your armour is still more reliable than even a str8-9 one that doesn't, which if I recall DE don't have.


Void Lance on Voidravens and Dark Gates on Haemonculi (but they suck).

Heat Lances are mean as well, but only come on Reavers IIRC and are very short-ranged.

Multi-Lasers are surprisingly effective at bringing down Raiders, so use that to your advantage. Face him with a wall of AV12 and throw S6 shots downfield.

Midnight


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

This is the problem i have with DE, since i main guard and play against it all the time. No matter how good you do, the first turn he shoots, you lose a ton of stuff. There is nothing you can do. First time i took out all his transports with massed fire from multilasers and i still lost almost all my chimeras in 1 turn, due to 2 venoms, blaster equipped infantry, and ravagers. Theres just too much to stop, and lances kill your stuff super easy. His wyches then fleet and in 1 turn can still go across the table and still melee and haywire my vehicles that were immobilized by his AT spam. His DE has not lost a single game at my LGS, not even against GK lists.


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

You could always reserve if he goes first. Then wander on with autocannons/multilasers from T2.

@Midnight the Talos has the option for a twin-linked heat lance.


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## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

By armour I refer more to russ tanks.

Low ld on HWS can be solved by lord commissars, I think kell can as well, don't have dex with me.

And voidravens have no model yet, so might not be an obvious threat.


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

I tried massive amounts of auto cannons and las teams with creed, and i actually fared worse than with mass chimeras. its frustrating, cause they shoot so many shots, so when the infantry shoot you, you lose everything. That and pain tokens are nasty once he gets kills.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

@Sakura, oh ok bout the russes

you can boost LD with LC or Kell but they are both expensive and easy to kill


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## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

It's guard, everything is easy to kill, no point worrying about it, as long as it boosts leadership long enough to pop transports they pay for themselves, you don't need them to last the game, just 2 or 3 turns.

And expense don't matter when your troops are still cheap, even in 1000pts, taking out 100 or so leaves 900 more.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

however they give away easy kill points, so if your playing annihilation then they give away very easy points


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## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

Again, guard, kinda gonna always have that strong chance to happen, it comes with the territory.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

however it would be better to reduce it asmuch as possible, and for the same cost as a LC and a HWS with autocannons and the CCS needed for Fire on my target, or bring it down, not to mention the platoon that has to come with the HWS, you can get a Hydra which is infinitly better and have 50pts to spare


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## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

If you have the ability to buy a hydra, if you don't its a useless suggestion until gw get off there lazy useless retarded ass, ignore making stupid models for space marines and actually bother to supply its customers with a finished model range.

That's never going to happen, so we have to make do, and unless you do the poncy looking aegis hydra, making do is your best bet.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

they dont bother making a hydra as its made from FW, if they allready make a model from FW they wont make another as it wouldnt make sense, its like making 2 lots of the same chair one with citadel and one with forgeworld on it

dosnt make business sense


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## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

Err...valkyrie?...baneblade?...manticore?...vanquisher?...executioner?...exterminator? (only included when they stopped making the metal so fw was the only choice)

So again, hydra?.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

ok i conside the point about the manticore, but arnt the LR's just varienst with differing armour types or patterns


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## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

The armour is the same, the weapons are different, and all were only and still are made by fw and gw at the same time as each other, and in fw's case they have 2-3 variants of the same turret.

So you have about 3-4 different choices for each, and only 1 choice if you want a hydra, to go crawling to fw to pay a price that's not worth it, or 2nd choice convert a crap version.

Or 3rd gw stop making crap and make what customers want and need.

Point is, suggesting a hydra in any quantity should not be the number 1 response until we confirm the op is capable of obtaining one.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

in some cases the armour types are different, you only have once choice for most things in GW apart from tank verities


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

This thread isn't really about spending on models though, it is about good tactics. Generally most strong guard armies have 4-6 hydras. 72" range plus ignoring cover on skimmers should give you a nice chance against DE. Also, vendettas are superb at wrecking DE, because 3 T-L lascannons are going to have a field day with all that armour 10. S6 will also enjoy pounding on AV10. all in all you shouldn't have too big of a problem, but you need to look at the DE advantages and consider how you can negate them. remove their speed by stunning their vehicles, then destroying them one at a time while maintaining the stunlock on everything, and considering they are av10 open topped, that shouldn't be overly difficult.


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## Sakura_ninja (Apr 29, 2012)

Ok the rear armour varies from 10-11, point still stands, you can get several variants of 1 tank that are all the same, a fw vanquisher is the same stats wise as a gw one.
A fw demolisher is the same as gw
Etc etc.

@muffin: you don't have a clue if the op can afford 4-6 hydra, so why suggest it yet until you do?, its got nothing to do with good tactics if you don't have the budget for it, what's the op gonna do if they can only get 1 despite you suggesting 4-6, that's no use, your "tactics" cost £258


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

i would say that vendettas are not that good at anti DE as they can only shoot at one thing, so are over pointed for the 3 lascannons that will deffinatly kill something, but the thing they kill is very weak and cheap


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Sakura_ninja said:


> @muffin: you don't have a clue if the op can afford 4-6 hydra, so why suggest it yet until you do?, its got nothing to do with good tactics if you don't have the budget for it, what's the op gonna do if they can only get 1 despite you suggesting 4-6, that's no use, your "tactics" cost £258


It was just a suggestion, if he is looking for a solution to DE then hydras are it, and you dont have to buy the FW one, buy a load of aegis defence lines and some 2nd hand chimeras, there is a hydra for 25€. There really is no need to attack my post.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

If people can't afford certain models, well that's the way it is, but most people eventually upgrade and buy more models, so at least they find out what's the most capable units and therefore buy said models/units...in this case it's Hydras, which are useful in all-comers lists btw, not just against DE etc that use Skimmers.

Basically to counter DE you want to have as much S6+ weaponry as possible for your anti-AV and anti-Infantry...ID, denies FNP, wrecks AV10.

IG can field S6+ by the bucketload so DE aren't that big a deal I've found, just Mech up and take bulk Chimeras and you're half way there without thinking too hard about it...Multi-lasers alone are a decent deterent to AV10, but even Hull HB's will add something. Plus by meching up you're likely to have plenty of Melta and Plasma which are always good choices. Hell even GL's with its S6 Blast will do something (never thought I'd say a kind word about GL...I must be sicker than I thought:laugh

Dark Lances hurt, but taking lots of AV12 will go towards negating its effect, and having cheaper vehicles than DE means IG can take more of them easily enough. 

No Hydras, then an Exterminator is a close(ish) second, and if you're including Infantry then AC HWT/S's are the go.

Someone said something about Vendettas been over the top against AV10 open-topped. Sure, but seen as I don't tailor my lists then I always have 2 Vendettas, so if AV10 is the only target then guess what, it will be taken out....'making its points back' is an old and outdated adage, if any unit does something that adds to the overall destruction of the enemy, or helps protect your own units from destruction, then its earned its place in my list, regardless of points cost.

In the end you want to keep DE Infantry from your own squishy Men, so take out their transports at range and make them walk...nothing wrong with an IG Mech Gunline in the first few turns.


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

as a DE player i can recommend the following to bring down a raider-rush type army:

1) While I wont advocate Foot guard, take chims & deploy your troops OUTSIDE & spread out. Do NOT combine your squads as what you gain in force multiplication you also loose when a single enemy model ties your 50 guys up in combat. If you deploy in lines in depth like = = = spread out to ensure he can't multi-assault & take your shots with autocannon's you'll do ok. Raider-style dark eldar can't put enough wounds onto guardsmen to remove the HWT's spread out throughout the lines before they suffer a significant amount of return fire. When considering embarking in chimera's remember that almost every single damage result from a glancing hit will prevent you from shooting not only the chimera, but the squad inside as well (results 1-4) so that is a no-no. By deploying an infantry platoon (or vets) with autocannon separate from your chimera you've gained a 1+1 effect in that you now have (2) different targets that are able to hurt your opponent & he can't easily neutralize BOTH with a single unit.

2) focus on the transports first. Sure a ravager is annoying with its 3 dark lances, but those 3 lances can only fire at one target. The transport & troops inside can mess up two different targets each turn. Also, DE are only as survivable on foot as your guardsmen - and cost 2x as much!

3) remember that guardsmen WILL die. That is what they exist for - to protect your tanks.

I'm assuming from the style of play you're describing that your opponent does something along the lines of (3) venoms w/ blaster-borne, (3) ravagers & probably as many wyches in raiders as he can field. The venom's should be your first priority because the blaster-borne will shut down your vehicles AND the venoms will rape your poor guardsmen. The wyches transports should be your next priority because once up close, wyches will afix haywire grenades to your tanks & render them pretty much useless. There is nothing a DE player w/ haywire wyches loves more than a chimera parkinglot. It is incredibly easy to lock down the vehicles with haywire grenades & block the only door to the vehicle basically rendering the squad inside useless until they are FORCED to emergency disembark & get charged by wyches or shot by venoms.

The idea of reserving everything if you don't expect first turn is not a bad idea. Drive your chim's on 6" & use the multilasers to tag as many of his light vehicles as you can, using turn two to disembark BEHIND your chimera wall. Turn three your chim's move as little as possible to guarantee your HWS a line of fire to his vehicles and again, you make use of your multilasers. Of course, the downside of this type of play is that a canny DE player will sit at about 18" from your table-edge with his raiders full of wyches, thus ensuring you may be able to shoot down his transports (he will also move flat-out to get there ensuring he has a 4++), but after he disembarks you will be out of range to fire at his troops & on his turn he will be able to move + fleet + charge into your tanks with haywires again....


I don't believe in list tailoring, and you didn't specifically state what points levels you play at, but a good army would be a:

CCS w/ astropath & OoF for both types of reserve manipulation. 
An infantry platoon w/ 4-6 squads w/ PW, AC (take two squads with NO chimeras & give them PW commisars). This gives you the ability to mob up into 1 big or 2 medium squads when it is beneficial.
2 or 3 chimera, meltavet squads
(2) stock LRBT's or hydras
fill in fast attack as necessary (vendetta is an obvious choice - but the model is bawls and frankly air support has no place in a guard army...) I like scout sentinals so you can outflank w/ multilasers / autocannons / lascannons / etc....


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## jjakaalbinoboy (May 24, 2012)

Yeah ARMYguy I'm having a similar problem with mine, he can cross the table into melee in one or maybe if im lucky two turns, a) that doesnt give me much time to take down his transports/armour an b) even if I do it makes little difference when he can do it on foot haha. I'm going to add in a Manticore and Hydra and mount up my foot sloggers in chimera and see if it helps.

Cheers all, lots of good advice here, mostly consistent to. So to clear a few things up (that I intentional left vague in my initial post as I wanted diverse responses) was that we usually play 1500-2000 points left in a random terrain board thats a pretty average size, long edge to long edge. Also, price/cost of the models and the fact I have to go FW (slightly frustrating) or convert certain ones such as Hydras is not an issue. Althought having 4-6 Hydras seems a bit extreme lol.

My DE opponent usually goes wyches and warriors with archon an incubi in raiders with ravager support. If he feels like some CC he brings a Talos and Grotesque for fun. 

Normally I go footslogger with 2 Infantry Platoons with CCS, plasma weapons an AC HWS. Then storm troopers with plasma, plasma sentinels (amazing at tighing up a CC unit that cant hurt it haha) and a leman russ of some sort for Heavy support.

A lot of good advice from clever handle too so thanks for that. I'm thinking of switching from Infantry Platoons to Veteran Squads mounted in Chimera, with Hydras, Manticore and Leman Russ for Heavy Support, Sentintels for Fast Attack, small storm trooper squads with plasma to reserve/deep strike as and when needed. 

I've had some success with my Valkyrie with Storm Troopers in as it can swoop in drop them where needed such as an objective and then use its lascannon to take out transports.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Hydras are a great unit regardless of who you are facing, always a worthy investment.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

You won't want to play without Hydra's once you've used them. I thought 2x TL Autocannons on Dreadnoughts was fairly poor - that was until all the AV10-12 started popping up thanks to the prevalence of melta and anti-infantry in 5th and the new direction that the codices took.

In return, you get twice the amount of shots (albeit at slightly less accuracy - its about mathematically 3 less hits a game, or something stupid like that), for only a little more, as well as the ability to ignore turbo boosting/flat out cover saves.


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

I will try deploying outside the chimera. But the DE player i play against has a razerwing with 4 missiles that WILL cause 20 + wounds on any blob or any squad outside a chimera, which is just disgusting. His army is finely tuned to destroy everything, and thats exactly what it does. Six raiders with 2 wyhces and the rest elite warriors, 2 venoms with blaster infantry, the razer wing, and 2 ravagers. It is insane how good it is. He also gives his vehicles the night shield and the 5+ invulnerable flicker so right when you think your going to take it out, he rolls a 5+.


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## jjakaalbinoboy (May 24, 2012)

OK, army list so far . . . 

HQ: Company Command Squad (305 pts)
. . *4 Company Command Squad*, (Medi-pack; Plasma gun x3)
. . . . *1 Company Commander (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . 1 Astropath
. . . . 1 Bodyguard
. . . . 1 Bodyguard
. . . . 1 Master of Ordnance
. . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)

Troops: Infantry Platoon (655 pts)
. . 1 Infantry Platoon
. . . . 4 Platoon Command Squad (Medi-pack; Plasma gun x3)
. . . . . . 1 Platoon Commander (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Plasma gun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Plasma gun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)
. . . . 3 Heavy Weapons Squad (Autocannon x3)
. . . . 3 Heavy Weapons Squad (Autocannon x3)

Troops: Veteran Squad (215 pts)
. . 7 Veteran Squad (Plasma gun x3)
. . . . 1 Veteran Heavy Weapon Team (Autocannon)
. . . . 1 Veteran Sergeant (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . 1 Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Hull Heavy Flamer; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)

Fast Attack: Armoured Sentinel Squadron (225 pts)
. . 1 Armoured Sentinel Squadron
. . . . 1 Armoured Sentinel (Plasma Cannon)
. . . . 1 Armoured Sentinel (Plasma Cannon)
. . . . 1 Armoured Sentinel (Plasma Cannon)

Heavy Support: Hydra Flak Tank Battery (130 pts)
. . 1 Hydra Flak Tank Battery
. . . . 1 Hydra Flak Tank (Heavy Bolter; Camo Netting; Extra Armor; Hunter-killer Missile; Pintle Heavy Stubber)

Heavy Support: Leman Russ Squadron (210 pts)
. . 1 Leman Russ Squadron
. . . . 1 Leman Russ Battle Tank (Lascannon; Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)

Heavy Support: Manticore Rocket Launcher (215 pts)
. . 1 Manticore Rocket Launcher (Hull Heavy Bolter; Camo Netting; Extra Armor; Pintle Storm Bolter)

Total Roster Cost: 1,955 pts

Thoughts? Feedback? Got 45pts to play with, was wondering if I should take the Chimera off the two Infantry Squads in the Platoon and buy another Veteran Squad in Chimera? Then I could use the two footslogger squads as bubble wrap?*


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

In my guard experience, i would drop as much from your command squad as you can, things like the artillery guy is just too unreliable, and the body guards.. id rather pump them up with 4 plamsa guns and throw them in a chimera.

The best luck iv had as IG is just doing all vets in chimeras with 2 flanking vendettas with melta vets (and the demo for more lulz).

Infantry blobs just dont work anymore, there are too many things that wipe out infantry in the meta nowadays. (hi razer wing).

I also cant roll worth crap, which doesn't help my odds.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

The no.1 rule to abide by when buiding a competitive IG list is -
- keep it cheap while retaining efficiency

so don't bother with any Wargear that doesn't actually kill/destroy stuff...leave all that until each unit is build efficiently and if points are left at the end.

At a glance at this list above drop all the EA, Camo, HKM, pintle-mounts (until the end at least, as these points can go towards affording an entire extra unit). That's about 275 pts saved right there...more weapons & more warm bodies is key.

Bloody hard to read that list...that's Army Builder isn't it - shocking on the eyes.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

cant remember, can sents take hkm? theyre. good throwaway if you need thanks to move and fire 2 weapons for being walkers (do I have that right?).

armoured sents with plasma look alright, but you might as well take an executioner, cheaper and get the same 3 shots.

scout sents with autocannons are better, cheaper and rip transports a new one for not much more.

id personally drop the hwsquads - one or two wounds froma s6 weapon and theyre off running, out of action for around 2 turns. even splinter fire being ap5 will cause them to sweat. they also struggle to benefit from orders due to low ld and no vox.

coma
pany commander, drop all upgrades from him. keep him cheap. possibly give a master vox to give orders. guards should take gl and possibly cam cloaks to stick in cover, from which they can rain a s6 grenade on a vehicle or frag a unit of warriors sitting pretty in the open. 

drop the moo and the advisors. they do little to help the list in general and free up enough for another guard squad nearly.

pcs - id take flamers - 4 flamers make mockery of non invulnerable eldar and in a chimera do have so much fun agaibst their objective holders.

infantry take autocannons. drop the hws and the advisors for extra points to possibly get more boots on the ground. they dont 'need to be mointed' but it helps.

and drop some upgrades from your vehicles, like hobo said you save ~15% of your total allowance - otherwise 15% spent on doing very little.


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## jjakaalbinoboy (May 24, 2012)

HOBO said:


> Bloody hard to read that list...that's Army Builder isn't it - shocking on the eyes.


Yeah Sorry, I've just reformatted it a bit to help.

Overall message then is to drop all the upgrades in preference for more units where possible?


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

jjakaalbinoboy said:


> Yeah Sorry, I've just reformatted it a bit to help.
> 
> Overall message then is to drop all the upgrades in preference for more units where possible?


Cool...and yes keep all the extra Wargear spending until after your units are built the way that makes them capable of doing their job.

Even with just that 275 pts I mentioned you'd save by dropping the EA etc from your vehicles, well that's nearly 2 more Vet squads with Meltaguns for example...me, I would also drop the 2 Bodyguards, all the Plasma Pistols, and the Medics to find the extra 35 needed. Hell if you want even more Plasma Guns you could probably afford to give the 2 Vet Squads three of those instead of the Meltaguns. 

Honestly, those extra Vet Squads, or whatever you decide on, will be more beneficial to you overall than some expensive Wargear, plus 2 more Scoring units to boot.

I forgot to mention about that Hydra...that 130 pts is very nearly what 2 costs, and having 2 of these squadroned makes them much more capable of dealing out the damage. I would find the 20 pts and get a second one...best thing you could do for your list - period.


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## jjakaalbinoboy (May 24, 2012)

So in a 1,250 pts force how many Troops squads should I really have? As if I have switch to vets I get a lot less of them.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

jjakaalbinoboy said:


> So in a 1,250 pts force how many Troops squads should I really have? As if I have switch to vets I get a lot less of them.


At least 3 troops units


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

jjakaalbinoboy said:


> So in a 1,250 pts force how many Troops squads should I really have? As if I have switch to vets I get a lot less of them.


1250 is a strangely pointed list, but you play what suits your Meta I guess.

My template for IG is usually 1 troop choice for every 500 pts...after the legal 2 Troops ruling to make a legal list of course. Also, if you're thinking of using mainly Melta Vets then bear in mind that they are quasi-suicidal just because of the nature of their use and the fact that they need to get close to be truly efficient at damaging the target, so within 2D6 range (6").

So if you're still with me:biggrin:....at 1250 I would have a minimum of 3 Vet Squads, but there's room to swap stuff in/out if you want.

One of my lists as a starter (maybe) -

CCS 150
Officer w/ CCW 
3 Vets w/ Plasma Guns
Chimera w/ HL/HF

VETS 155
Sgt w/ CCW, Las Pistol
6 w/ Lasguns
3 w/ Meltaguns
Chimera w/ ML, HF

VETS 155
Sgt w/ CCW, Las Pistol
6 w/ Lasguns
3 w/ Meltaguns
Chimera w/ ML, HF

VETS 155
Sgt w/ CCW, Las Pistol
6 w/ Lasguns
3 w/ Meltaguns
Chimera w/ ML, HF

VETS 170
Sgt w/ CCW, Las Pistol
6 w/ Lasguns
3 w/ Plasma Guns
Chimera w/ ML, HF

MANTICORE 160
Storm Eagle Rockets
Heavy Flamer
S/light, SL's

HYDRA (2 @ 75) 150
2 x t/l Hydra AC's
Heavy Flamer
S/light, SL's

HYDRA (2 @ 75) 150
2 x t/l Hydra AC's
Heavy Flamer
S/light, SL's

that's 1245 pts.

Maybe a help to you, maybe not...best of luck in your fight with DE:victory:


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Double post...sorry.

You could change the Hull HF's to HB's if you want more of a gunline, but not all of them as HF's cause far more wounds than HB's will usually...and DE are going to get up close and personal eventually so the extra range isn't that much of an advantage overall.

What I mean by swapping stuff in and out, but staying within the Vet theme, you could choose to add some HWT's to the Vets if you want, but trimming points from my list isn't easy without dropping some SW's and I don't advise doing that...even at BS4 those 3 SW's per squad are needed more often than not if you want damage done consistently. The CCS would be the most ideal squad to change...dropping the Plasma for a HWT would give you spare points to add more HWT's if you wanted to. Food for thought anyway.

Sorry, keep thinking of things to add....if you don't have Hydras then adding those HWT's becomes more important, or an Exterminator...long range anti-AV been the main criteria.


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## jjakaalbinoboy (May 24, 2012)

Yeah it is an odd pointing, we're playing game in increasing intervals of 250pts on the previous game so our last game was 1k, next is 1.25k. Next will be 1.5k.

Cheers I was thinking full Vet for troops but that only gives me 3/4 which could make grabbing objectives difficult in some missions.


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## jjakaalbinoboy (May 24, 2012)

OK so this is what I have so far, as I said, seems lacking Troops at mo.

HQ: 1 Company Command Squad (Plasma gun x4) (165 pts)
1 Chimera (Heavy Flamer)

Troops: Veteran Squad (165 pts)
1 Veteran Squad (Meltagun x1; Plasma gun x2)
1 Chimera (Heavy Flamer)

Troops: Veteran Squad (165 pts)
1 Veteran Squad (Meltagun x1; Plasma gun x2)
1 Chimera (Heavy Flamer)

Troops: Veteran Squad (165 pts)
1 Veteran Squad (Meltagun x1; Plasma gun x2)
1 Chimera (Heavy Flamer)

Fast Attack: 1 Hellhound (Heavy Flamer) (130 pts)

Heavy Support: 1 Manticore Rocket Launcher (160 pts)

Heavy Support: 1 Leman Russ Battle Tank (150 pts)

Heavy Support: Hydra Flak Tank Battery (150 pts)
2 Hydra Flak Tank 

Total Roster Cost: 1,250


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Mixng SW's within the same squad isn't as effective as having all 3 the same, or as capable of doing significant damage on a consistent basis, plus there's the different range/APvalue factors as well. On the face of it, it seems a versatile build, but it doesn't work as well as specialising each squad in the end....I used to do similar for quite a few games but after about 20 I learnt it just wasn't up to scratch, so I've played the last 130 odd games with all 3 SW's the same.

That aside, it's a good list overall...I do add a Hellhound to my lists once I hit 1500 (and/or Vendettas which are the no.1 FA choice), so know it's a good choice against DE. After a few games you'll know whether or not you have enough Troop choices. If not then either drop the HH for that extra Vet Squad like my list had, or even think about going with a Mech Platoon(s).


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## jjakaalbinoboy (May 24, 2012)

Yeah I was thinking I would move the meltas into one squad and have the plasmas in the other two as well.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

jjakaalbinoboy said:


> Yeah I was thinking I would move the meltas into one squad and have the plasmas in the other two as well.


That's the way to do it...IG are cheap enough to go the specialised route, not like SM's who can add versatility to their units.

Best of luck:victory:...let us know how you go against those Xenos scum:biggrin:


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## jjakaalbinoboy (May 24, 2012)

Not sure about the LRBT though, could swap for another Troops choice?


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

jjakaalbinoboy said:


> Not sure about the LRBT though, could swap for another Troops choice?


Sure, do that if you want, and it's the same story as the Hellhound...playing some games will soon tell you if you have enough Troops or not.

Bearing in mind that that list I gave you and the one you currently have is not just an anti-DE list...I don't tailor at all (read never in casual pick-up games), so that LRBT is fine as it gives you long range, is an S6+ weapon so viable against anything not just DE. Sure it means any Lance Weapons will actually screw with its AV, unlike all those AV12 vehicles you have, but there's good and bad about most everything.

Me, I would rather field another Manticore or 2 more Hydras, but this is your list not mine - doesn't necessarily make my list any more effective than yours, or vice-versa....it's also the reason I have 20K of IG because been able to field many many varients of a Mech list or a Hybrid list (or whatever) is what makes this game fun, and they're all competitive.


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## ARMYguy (Feb 8, 2012)

I wish i had 20k worth of IG but they are raising the price of the tanks 8 $ so meh.. lol


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