# Imperial Guard vs Necrons



## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I've started an Imperial Guard army, with... almost one platoon done  

But it will be great one day! Anyhow, I'm starting with 40 Guardsmen, Company Command Squad and two Platoon Commands (I have the Codex and know it fairly well rules-wise). My most common opponents are Orks, Eldar, Tau, soon-to-be Blood Angels, but more common than all of them are falcoso's foot/hybrid Necrons, soon to be the proud owners of a Doom Scythe.

Now, I've got a sweet spot for Leman Russ tanks, don't really mind what variant but the Vanquisher and Exterminator are probably the least likely to find a place in my lists and the Battle Tank and Demolisher are favoured, I like Hellhounds and the Devil Dog, Vendettae/Valkyries (but only the one, I'm not blessed with hoards of cash), and of course the wonderful Manticores, but I'm not really one for Chimerae. 

Now, my question is, which are the best 'counter-Necron' units I could take without biasing my list too much to be ineffective against Eldar, Orks and BA? Obviously Manticores look promising, denying FnP on BA and killing hordes of Orks, but taking three deprives me of Leman Russ goodness. I don't want to go the other way and take too many Leman Russ and not have enough points for cool stuff in the list.

Is a Hydra worth converting (from a Quad-Gun and Manticore) to deal with what'll probably be only a single Flyer per army? It's cheap at 75pts, but since I'm starting small it's more the Heavy Support slot cost that bites, not the points.

Starting at 1000pts, ideally, but suggestions for escalating up to 1500 and 2k points are welcomed :wink:

Midnight


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

...This is to deal with me isn't it... I hate you, but I have got to admit I do love Leman russes


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

@Falcoso - You'll be fine. Gauss laughs in the face of Leman Russ'.


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

I lke Leman Russes as well, but against Necrons especially they aren't necessarily the best choice, simply because Gauss weaponry is a Glancing machine.
That said, 'Crons need to get close to be in their element so long ranged firepower is a must, and you can't beat the LRBT for that role, plus you also have the Manticore which is great against most targets.

On Hydras, if you're going to field 1 then you might as well take a second...same FOC Slot for a start, plus I always found 2 to be far more efficient shot-wise. Maybe you won't need the second one against that single 'Cron Flyer, but you will against DE with their multiple targets.

No Chimeras, fair enough, but for Gunline IG that Aegis Line with Quad Gun for its Cover giving and anti-Flyer role will be a godsend...I'm taking one now that Commissars aren't as effective at ensuring my Blobs stand up to sustained firepower. 

Hellhounds are another good choice, although without that wall of Chimeras moving up the Board to keep it company don't expect it to last long.

I'd take a Vendetta over a Valkyrie any day of the week...great at anti-Flyer/MC/TDA/AV.
That said, as much as you hear how great it is, the Whiners almost never mention that it usually gets shot to shit and removed by Turn 3, which is especially true if used as a transport early on in a game....I would use it as a Gunship period in this edition, but if you are planning on embarking any unit in it, make it one that's cheap and isn't vital to your cause until late game, a SWS with 3 Flamers or Demo Charges (or a mix) for Objective taking etc.

Hopefully food for thought at least, and no doubt much more to talk about...Necrons are the uber army this edition I believe, well until new Codecii arrive.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Take a Aegis or Bastion with a turret to deal with the single flyer. However, a Vendetta is a solid way of bringing in some lascannon goodness to your list. I wouldn't bother with a Hydra unless you are dealing with 3+ flyers since it has to snap fire at ground units. 

Take flamers to deal with those nasty scarab swarms, and I also found that massed fire works better than strong guns for taking out Necron troops since they can stand back up. Picking off a couple models a turn may work against other armies, but against Necrons you need to deal as many wounds as possible. My solution is Heavy Bolters.


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## thisisaguard111 (Oct 20, 2010)

I'd recommend both flyers. Vendettas are great for their Nightscythes, doomscythes, and pretty much any other vehicle as well as monstrous creatures. The valkyrie is great for its anti-infantry role with 2 MRP.


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## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

I'd seriously consider taking a Leman Russ Exterminator with HB sponsons. Between its rate of fire and power, it can put hurt on nearly anything. When you combine the two, it's not bad against fliers either. 

Speaking of fliers, they are a very good option in this edition. The Valkyire is just as useless as it always was, but with hull points and the new damage table, the three twin-linked lascannons are an amazing asset to have. Just don't stick a unit on it, because either it'll have to grav chute them down, and you'll risk losing part of the squad, or you'll have to hover, and get shot to pieces.

I'd say that for anything over 1500, the 150 points you need for two Hydras is certainly worth it when you think about how much pain they deal out to flyers, and even the potential they have to hit other targets too, between the two twin-linked autocannons and the heavy bolter.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Nave Senrag said:


> I'd say that for anything over 1500, the 150 points you need for two Hydras is certainly worth it when you think about how much pain they deal out to flyers, and even the potential they have to hit other targets too, between the two twin-linked autocannons and the heavy bolter.


He said his opponents only have 1 flyers max in their lists and the Hydra's autocannons have to snap fire at ground units, so it's nearly useless as a gun emplacement once the flyer is finished off.


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## Routine (Sep 25, 2011)

From what I know of Guard, if it's a choice between risking the flyer and risking the troops.. dont the troops get risked every time?


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## phantom40k (Jul 24, 2012)

Maybe you should think about using a medusa or 2 they are great at smashing large groups of infantry and if you take bastion breacher shells you will desimate tanks aswell.


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## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

Arcane said:


> He said his opponents only have 1 flyers max in their lists and the Hydra's autocannons have to snap fire at ground units, so it's nearly useless as a gun emplacement once the flyer is finished off.


You're still going to average a couple of hits per Hydra on whatever you're shooting. Between that, and an almost guarantee of taking out the flier immediately it seems like an okay trade off for 150 points.


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## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

Manticores and Griffon Batteries are great anti-necron units, because they have great range and if you check the fine print (i was directed to this by a fellow FLGS gamer), you can use the multiple barrage rules to "roll up" a line of units - good for necrons and warrior lines, and pretty horrible against anything that looks mechanised or non-fearless horde types.

Tbh, Medusae work well, but using BB shells is perhaps a little overkill - meltaguns and MMs do that 2d6 armour pen job well - having a S10 ord gun is good enough surely?? Unless you need the range to ensure your target dies - the bigger pie means you are MORE likely to hit vehicles than in 5th.

Vendettas work well (despite being the most inaccessible AND expensive model in the IG range), being tough AV flyers (best armoured flyer below the stormraven itself, and one of most efficient in its class - look at the ork Dakkajet/Bommer or the Stormtalon - you're paying roughly the same pts for units with less powerful guns and considerably less armour than the vendetta), being a nasty anti-flyer defence, but its added bonus is its a TRANSPORT, which may prove useful in Turn 5 Objective grabs.

If you're worried about scarab nomnomnoming, flamers are good, but the HH is da bomb against them - IDing them, ignoring armour AND cover, autohitting, and doubling the number of wounds (methinks - that's me with the 5th ed hat on) might be helpful, whilst being a ranged template allows it to be kept away from guaranteed charge ranges.

Hydras are at the moment the cheapest AA capability out there, given the price of the quad gun on the defence line/bastion, so taking one should be ok, but i would never rely solely on this as your only AA solution, because all it takes is a lucky shot and you lose your air cover (or if its an enemy stormraven/valkyrie, you might not even hurt them enough). Having redundancy is the way of the Imperial Guard as a whole. But as you face low flyer armies, i would say only take 1 hydra OR a fortification (probably the fortification - might as well use it as you buy it anyway for the hydra, unless you buy it from FW).

As for dealing with necrons, wipe EACH unit of the board, rather than making dents into their units. Particularly high value units such as Lychguard, because i have played against them with a lord with res orb, and they have a canny knack of all surviving courtesy of a boosted RP roll, as well as their armour and invun saves, so quantity trumps quality, given the mainstay of their army is 4+ Sv, IG should be well equipped to deal with them (lots of AP4 weapons forcing the necrons to hug weaker cover).

Also, if walking into a necron warrior wall with tanks, bring a friend. Just make sure they are not squadroned vehicles, and either make an all out push or don't attempt to push forward, because a half hearted attempt will be punished by fusillades of gauss fire


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## HOBO (Dec 7, 2007)

Arcane said:


> He said his opponents only have 1 flyers max in their lists and the Hydra's autocannons have to snap fire at ground units, so it's nearly useless as a gun emplacement once the flyer is finished off.


Depends if by 'Flyer' MidnightSun also meant this to include Skimmers or not...I see it as rather unbelievable that the DE player has only 1 target for the Hydra to shoot at seen as every vehicle DE have can be targetted.

Be a 'different' DE list if it's not chock full of Skimmers:biggrin:


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

I'm going to need more than one flyer then... and maybe Anrakyr. ALso with regards to ap4 weapons that would only effect warriors (which is normally the main bulk of an army so ok), crypteks (hide in the middle of 3+ squads), flayed ones (which no one ever takes anyway) and scarabs (they are swarms which are cheap and eat armour, meh they normally don't get armour anyway) unless I take tomb blades wihtout shield vanes.


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## Arcane (Feb 17, 2009)

Antonius said:


> Manticores and Griffon Batteries are great anti-necron units, because they have great range and if you check the fine print (i was directed to this by a fellow FLGS gamer), you can use the multiple barrage rules to "roll up" a line of units - good for necrons and warrior lines, and pretty horrible against anything that looks mechanised or non-fearless horde types.


Hows that work?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

So generally, the plan is to wrap up LRBTs and Manticores/Griffons/Medusae with Guardsmen and try and stay out of the 24" Gauss Range, whilst harassing with Vendettae and Hellhounds? That works for me, with Guardsmen being on foot being my favoured way of deploying them (Chimera aren't a complete no-go, I just don't really like buying transports that cost about as much as the squad inside them; it's more $ expensive, despite being a steal points-wise).



Arcane said:


> Hows that work?


If you hit with the second template, you can put it wherever you like as long as it touches the first. Third template can go next to the second, fourth can go next to the third etc.

Ends up creating a line of Large Blasts that go right along a battleline.



HOBO said:


> Depends if by 'Flyer' MidnightSun also meant this to include Skimmers or not...I see it as rather unbelievable that the DE player has only 1 target for the Hydra to shoot at seen as every vehicle DE have can be targetted.
> 
> Be a 'different' DE list if it's not chock full of Skimmers:biggrin:


Skyfire still has to Snap Fire at Skimmers, although they don't get their Jink save. Hydras are solely anti-Flyer (Flyer being anything listed as a Flyer in the appendix).

Couple of points:
Is a LRBT fairly easy to hide/bubble-wrap? Size-wise they look easy enough to screen with Guardsmen for 25% coverage, but I've no idea on the practicality of this in-game.

Best way of dealing with Lychguard? Usually the Scythe variety, I struggled greatly with Chaos Space Marines due to the lack of long-range anti-TEq. I thought a Demolisher, but that involves getting within standard Gauss Flayer range, or a LRBT with focus-fire from other units, although I don't know how effective this would be.

Is the Eradicator worth taking, ever?

How do I stop Guardsmen being facerolled? I know I'll lose a lot, but how do I prevent losing every last man?

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Midnight


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## Antonius (Jan 10, 2012)

If you face Scythe Lychguard, nuke them with battlecannons and other AP3 weapons. They're only tougher MEQ infantry without an invun (i seem to face the sword and shield ones with a lord with warscythe hidden).

4 shot TL BS1 autocannons can still be used against skimmers, and the hull heavy bolter CAN be used to hit DE transports, so they are still effective against them, albeit less so.


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