# WoC VS 2x Hydra's



## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Hey everyone,

Again being new to Fantasy and to WoC I am probably going to need some help. My upcoming opponent has a DE list in which he fields 2x hydras. I've heard nasty stuff about these things but never played against one.

I read the versus 2x Hydra thread but there really wasn't anything regarding WoC.

So what do you do?

Things in my list:
Archaon
Champ on Juggernaught
Sorcerer
Warriors
Knights
Marauders (foot and horsemen)
Hounds
Knights

Thanks in advance!


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## Superstring670 (Oct 20, 2008)

If you can mount your Sorcerer of a Disk of Tzeentch for mobility keeps him out of range of the hydras and blast the hydras with fire based magic so no regen (not sure if WOC sorcerers can take lore of fire, but Tzeentch magic is just as good possible Infernal Gateway.^^)
Chaos Lord on a mount with the hellfire sword(the flaming one that does D3 wounds as well I think.)
If not see if you can snipe the handlers with magic
Archaon would be good but is a lot of points nearly double that of 2 hydras? + he needs some friends such as fellow knights.
Shaggoth in close combat if you can get one(borrow or proxy)
Tie them up with Spawn as unbreakable

These are a few I can think of at the moment
Its a bit harsh that your intro to warhammer is a dual hydra list ><


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Sorcerors of Tzeentch Must take Lore of Tzeentch. 

However, I doubt against a Dual Hydra list I doubt that a simple Gateway will help - this is where a Paired Sorceror of Tzeentch, Both on Discs, one with Skull, the other with Puppet. They can take on Sorceresses Easily enough, and can chase down fleeing units, in addition to crapping out Gateways, Flickering Fires, etc.

As for Archaon - yeah, 2x Hydra versus a Character with WS9 and a unit causing -1 WS Skill, with S6 on the charge... Yeah, there's no real issue.

Archaon can only be hit on a 6. He hits on 3's. He's a Level 2 Sorceror himself. With the other two sorcerors, you get a potential 3 Gateways, or if not handy other spells. You're tanking out 11 S5 Attacks Ignoring Armour Save, and 6-9 S6 Attacks hitting on 3's. Basically, A hydra is dead meat.

You've got to focus attacks on the Hydra? Aww Shame. I guess 11 Attacks hitting on 3's won't result in 8 hits, 4 wounds, of which 2 are saved. And then the Knights, with their 9 attacks hit with 6, wound with 4, save with 2. In return, 13 attacks. Considering they hit on 5's against the Knights, and 6's against the big man, that's 2 hits, and maybe one wound from the BM's most likely saved by the knight with his 2+ AS, and 2-3 hits from the hydra, resulting in 1-2 wounds, of which the knights most likely save with their 3+ AS. So, they outnumber. You caused 4 Wounds, and a standard. 

But then I forgot the Horses. Considering you have Dorghar "I'm eat your face off with 4 S5 Attacks hitting 3's as well"... Munch. NEVER, underestimate Horses. Back before Knights got two attacks standard, my steed had higher kill tallies than my Knights. 

This is perhaps the one time when Shaggoths might prove useful - the lack of Bolt Throwers means that their T5 and 6 Wounds means that they can also tank on a Hydra. Naturally, Kholek does far better, but then Again, you have Archaon. 

You should do fine if you can the charge with your Knights.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Can I just point out: 2 Hydras are 350pts... how much is archaon and a unit of knights?
It should be a challenge: use any book you want and come up with anything that costs less then 175pts and yet should be able to kill a hydra: I doubt much other then cannons would manage it... though admittedly the funniest game I have been in was my ogres and some dwarfs vs 2 DE players (1k each player): I was worried about how we could kill the hydras... then the dwarf player hit with his burning grudgethrower and did 5W to 1 hydra, fired his organ gun into the 2nd, caused 6 wounds... 5 of which were failed. The look on the DE players faces as they watched 2 hydras get removed from the table in 2 minutes (and from full wounds) was beond priceless. It also completely screwed up the DE players strategy (along with all 4 of my ogre units getting the charge into their 3 cold one knight units- took me 3 rounds of combat and them passing all their Ld but I wiped them out to a man... um, elf).


The reason that dual hydra lists are so feared is that the hydras are seriously hard to handle but by no means unkillable, they are however really really cheap for the threat that they pose. The DE player can happily send 2 hydras down 1 flank knowing that either they'll crush the flank or that if there is something there that can oppose them then the rest of his army should smash through your centre or opposite flank... not to mention that hydras are M6 and move as skirmishers (apart from charging) so are really quite tricky to catch if they are facing units they cant handle (a good DE player should certainly get you charging away from the rest of his force... tying up that unit for at least a couple of turns, if not half the game- if that unit is arcaon then you have lost the game, simply by having a 1100+pt unit doing nothing more then killing a <200pt unit and then having to manouver its way back into the action for a turn or 2).

Basically a simply unit of knights should get the job done: S6 on the charge will mean the hydra only has a 4+ ward and you should be hitting and wounding on 3+, 3+... you wont kill the hydra but that doesnt matter: the beastmasters are wounding you on a 5+ (with a 3+AS for you) and the hydra might wound on a 3+ but you still get 4+ saves. If you win the combat by a couple of wounds, especially if backed up by a banner (or mebbe outnumbering) then they hydras Ld8 suddenly looks quite vulnerable. The best solution is to have your champion on a flank and let him _only_ have base contact with 1 or more beastmasters Doesnt need to have contact with both in order to kill them- they are much easier to kill (3+ hit, 2+ kill) so will give a couple of easy wounds, will knock the hydra to base Ld6 and will force a monster reaction test.
People always seem to forget that they can attack the beastmasters... the hydras rules dont stop the beastmasters getting hit by shooting/combat. They just mean that any hits that can either be alocated to the hydra _or_ the beastmasters must go on the hydra: blasts, template hits and combat where you are only in b2b with beastmasters all leave them very vulnerable.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Point for Point, Hydra's can't be stood up to. However, why should you? You've spent 1200 points on a Deathstar, use it, ferchristsake.

Tim, I though BM's were S3 AP, meaning 1+ Save knights have a 2+, and Hydra's are S5 meaning 3+ Saves?

The problem with Warriors of Chaos, though, is that even BG DStar's can't compete with HW/S Warriors and Knights, so the core of the WoCArmy doesn't matter so much.


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## Freedirtyneedles (Oct 22, 2009)

my advice, tie up his hydras with some unbreakable spawns while Archeon eats the rest of his army.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

The spawn will only last a turn, which may be fine. A cheaper alternative (which might actually win combat...go figure) might be to feed the Hydras units of Marauders with flails or great weapons and the Mark of Slaanesh. As long as they're 20+ strong, which is an investment of all of 145 points if you're packing great weapons, they can probably handle a hydra. The Mark of Slaanesh is really what makes it work though, since it makes them immune to Fear and Terror. Odds are, they won't win the combat, but the capability's certainly there, and that frees your deathstar unit up for more important tasks, like butchering the opponent's army by itself.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Point for Point, Hydra's can't be stood up to. However, why should you? You've spent 1200 points on a Deathstar, use it, ferchristsake.
> 
> Tim, I though BM's were S3 AP, meaning 1+ Save knights have a 2+, and Hydra's are S5 meaning 3+ Saves?
> 
> The problem with Warriors of Chaos, though, is that even BG DStar's can't compete with HW/S Warriors and Knights, so the core of the WoCArmy doesn't matter so much.


Oh- forgot chaos armour was a 4+sv basic... that means my idea is even better  take lots of knights then laugh at the silly hydras.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> Point for Point, Hydra's can't be stood up to.


I think the only way to beat a Hydra 1v1 in combat and be less than 175points is a Ethreal Vampire BSB. 


Anyway, personnaly a nice dirty lord, with hellfire sword should sort out his Hydra. Given enchanted shield, + mount + chaos armour gives you a good save, and maybe some points for a ward-save. Other than that, then Gateway the bastard


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

When you guys say "Gateway," I assume you are referring to the Tzeentch spell yes?

That being said, how do I know I'll even be able to use it? With 2 lvl 2 casters, there's no guarantee I'll roll that power... Unless I'm missing something..


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Although they are generally branded as crap a Tzeentch Daemon Prince, at lvl4 (not sure if this is standard up has to be upgraded as in Daemon book) and take the ability that allows it to fly, with some other goodies. Gives you a decent CC monster with a better chance of Gateway. Lvl2`s are only really there as caddies(dispell scrolls per wizard) or to share some of the other good magic items.


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## CoNnZ (Mar 28, 2009)

Haven't got the WoC book on me right now but can say that you should use spells that count as flaming to shut the hydras up. Put the sorceror in a disc and have him wizz after them. Flanking them is another idea as this way you can kill off the beastmasters and hopefully cause some havoc


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Would 5 knights be able to take one on, by themselves?

Additionally, any comments about my gateway comment above?


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## Fallen Angel Sammael (Jun 18, 2009)

Get your lord in there and slice their heads off!


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Crimzzen said:


> Would 5 knights be able to take one on, by themselves?


It might be a little close but I think that your plain knights would come off best- the hydra would find it very hard to hurt you while only having a 4+ regen save against you (your knights should get the charge.. though if you dont think you will just take great weapons: you'll be wounding on 4+ and the hydra will get a 6+AS but it should get the job done).


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## Fen-Dweller (Sep 25, 2009)

Exalted Hero-151(?) pts.
-MoT
-Disc
-Shield
-Halberd

Add the Golden Eye of Tzeentch for 25pts if you'd like him to live, or the Armor of Morrisleb for 35pts if you never want him to die, ever. I generally go with the AoM, because 3+ WS v. non-magical attacks is nice.

With either of those items, he won't run you more than 190, and he's more than enough for both hydras. On top of that you can run 2 of them. Take that, dual-hydras.


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

Fen-Dweller said:


> Exalted Hero-151(?) pts.
> -MoT
> -Disc
> -Shield
> ...



Isn't it just a 3+ ward save vs missiles?


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