# So The New Daemons Update - Opinions?



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Hey everyone.

I just finished writing an article about the new Daemon release for my Chaos Daemons blog (link in my sig) and I came on Heresy online, only to find it has gone largely unnoticed!

Sure there are a few discussions here and there, but not as much as I would have thought to be honest.

So I just thought I would start a thread and maybe russle up a few discussions and posts on the subject.

So, here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:


*1. What do you guys think of the Chaos Daemon Update?

2. Do You like any of the new models, or better yet, have you purchased any?

3. How is your Daemon army fairing in 6th Edition? Tabling all before it, or gathering dust on your shelf?

4. Any previously non-Daemon players thinking of adding a few of the new models to your armies as Allies?*


I have got a few games of 6th under my belt so far and I think Daemons can still win games (although it is difficult). I think the new wave of models and the rule changes have been great and are a marked change from Imperials always getting everything all the time.

The only disappointment for me is that some of the models are still ridiculously overpriced (Still £15.50 for ONE Fiend of Slaanesh! £30 for 5 Flesh Hounds?), and I'm also saddened that a few more Units didn't get their rules and profiles amended. Other than that I am still enjoying playing opponents with my Daemonic Horde and painting up my various models and can't wait for a few new purchases to arrive (two boxes of flamers and two boxes of Screamers). 

So what about the rest of you Daemon players? What's your opinion of the update in the latest White Dwarf?


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## TheGoblin (Jul 19, 2012)

As one of the previously non-Daemon players thinking of picking them up as allies, I think the new models look great, the Plague Bearers and Nurglings especially caught my eye. I think gameplay wise I'd love to have me a few units of Flamers. They could really take some of the power out of an assaulting unit.


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

I play fantasy daemons. So they have never gathered dust on the shelf, the inclusion of the soul grinder makes it possible to field something big and gribbly that isn't a blood thirster. Perfect for smaller points games where a greater daemon wasn't possible.

flamers moved to special = good. They took a nerf but it was expected.

Haven't managed to buy me a white dwarf yet so don't know the full changes, but from a guess - they haven't included any other chariots other than slaanesh, this makes me sad.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

1. I'm sad that it wasn't CSM  

2. I do like the new Chariots and Flamers. I'm not so fond of the Nurglings, they seem a bit cartoony. I have not purchased any, but I expect to get some Flamers

3. I don't have a Daemons army.

4. I'm definitely thinking of adding Daemon allies to my CSM army. They are just too good not to. The new Chariots seem a bit fragile at the moment. I'll need to see some reviews before I get some but with the point reduction to Flamers, I would be foolish not to add some to my list.

I'm also a little surprised that they didn't put out rules for Chariots for each of the gods. I think players would have been fine if they put out rules for all but only made the Slaanesh model, considering they still don't have Chariot models for the Heralds. 

Although, I think Slaanesh might be the only feasible god to have a vehicle. Khorne and his Juggernauts, Nurgle too, are too slow to use the vehicle movement rules and Tzeentch tends to fly. That being said, I don't think the other gods will be getting AV Chariots


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

i have a mono-slaanesh army; i am actually disapointed with the rules on the new chariots, FAR too fragile from anything besides it assaulting something.

now i havent played with them yet, since Demons are on a backburner on my table of what gets assembled.

the most disappointing thing about the chariots is that they cant hurt HEAVY units (dreads, LRs, deathstars, etc) with any consistency. and they cant buy any upgrades (like an armor save), namely Pavane.


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## Knight92 (May 8, 2008)

A few observations from a Daemon player, first I have not played any 6th yet we have one last tourney this weekend between friends then we go to 6th.

I think the chariots look really cool not sure, but think they would help with horde type armies. As Fallen stated a bit upset they can not hurt heavy units.

Don't like the new Flamers like the last two versions much better.

Like the new Nurglings, Screemers, and Plaguebearers.


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## rtthg6 (Nov 27, 2011)

i thing the update is good but does it mean the daemon codex will be soon after the update or will it be shelved tell 7th since it got updated. i hope thats not it. as for the 6th ed games goten steam rolled by termies a couple times, tabled sisters.

iron freak how are the chariots weaker their the same codex rules overrides book rules


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

1. I think it is OK in general but the new Screamer rules are filthy.

2. I like most of the new models but I definitely think the Blue Scribes look kack. I have bought none since I run a mono Khorne army (altough I did pick up a finecast Karanak over the weekend to lead my Flesh Hounds).

3. My mono Khorne list does not run as badly as I imagined it would do so in this edition. I have 2 DP's and a Bloodthirster for dealing with 2+ armour save models. Apart from that I rely on mass attacks. The only army I mildly struggle with would be GK's but that is to be expected I think.

4. I started my mono Khorne army by using 20 Bloodletters and a Bloodthirster as a small allies contingent for my army. However I liked using the daemon portion of the army and figured that I may like a full Khornate army. Turns out I do!

D-A-C: I made my Flesh Hounds under the advice of my local GW manager to use Fenrisian Wolves painted as Fleash Hounds and put on cavalry bases. I traded the termie bases in the box for cavalry bases and the entire 10 man unit cost me as much as 5 of the new Flesh Hounds so I am happy!


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

this is fantastic, more plastic daemons to build up my Chaos forces.

not only that but i'll get all the finecast kit as well.

one thing bugs me though, why not release a box of 10 plastic furies as well for those who like the play on Chaos to Glory end (meaning non god affilliated) ahh well next time maybe?

But GW have done a magnificant job this time, kudos Gw, kudos.


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## Madden (Jan 22, 2012)

I like the update and I'm getting an exhaulted and a seeker chariot at release along with some flamers, using the squadron rules to have the seeker act as a buffer then charge with the exhaulted, and the same armour as a rhino means high strength shooting is going into them (can't be touched by s4 on the front/side) and not onto my DP or grater or crushers etc. cheap points fast and I feel at the moment there will be one hit wonders hit and kill a unit then die though this could change after trying them a few times. Overall I like the changes and screamers got one hell of a boost.


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## XT-1984 (Aug 23, 2011)

The new Screamer rules are so overpowered. So are the new Flamers. 

I already had a mono-Tzeentch Daemon army but from now on I'll be using Screamers instead of Daemon Princes. 

I had nine Screamers but I like the new ones (and the fact they're plastic), so I've pre ordered 27 of them. 

Used some 'counts as' before I placed my order and I was just tableing my friends who I normally have a hard time beating.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

I had just decided to return to my abortive Daemons collection with the release of 6th Edition (to begin with as allies then as a separate army) when the rumours crystallised.

I like the aesthetic of many of the models; if I did not already have nine screamers I would definitely pick up some of the new ones next time I had money to spare. However I feel the flamers look worse then the previous versions.

I do not have the rules booklet yet so have no real stance on the rule changes. As I am not hugely competitive I might not ever have one.


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

I don't like the new models so as soon as I saw the new plague bearers before they were properly announced I went and bought some of the metal ones - however they are much cheaper, it used to be £35 to get 10 plague bearers a standard and instrumentalist, now it is £25 and you get som good bitz. 

The new flamers I think look horrible but at least they are in plastic now. And the look of the chariots are awesome.

The rules generally are good, flamers and screamers are both better now and the fact that soul grinders are in WHFB is ace, I wasn't going to get one because I couldn't use them in both games, but now they are I will probably get some.

The rules for the chariots are horrible though, so I most likely won't get one except for maybe the herald which can be built with it 

I'm sad that there still is no Skarbrand or herald of Nurgle models though.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Screamers all day everyday. They can molest vehicles, tEQ, mEQ, and turbo boost over things for harassment.

I don't agree with people thinking that a WD 'update' means a stalled/shelved codex. I think it means GW made some new models they wanted to sell, and made the rules better so they would sell. It just breathed some life into the CD (and a lesser extent CSM) playerbase.

I'm still really confused about the chariots though. Awesome looking kit with not alot of use.


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## oftenwrong (Mar 24, 2009)

The update looks good and a few new boxes will be making their way to my painting table.

Only played 2 games with them so far and it was 4 FMC and 20+ horrors (no bolts). I abandoned everything else. Won both games. The meta is all jumbled up right now so it’s hard to pin down an all comers list. Still will be avoiding the waac gamers and large matches with the army.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

rtthg6 said:


> iron freak how are the chariots weaker their the same codex rules overrides book rules


I'm not sure what you're asking me.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

One thing I was disappointed by on the update was no mention that models with Blessing of the blood god get a bonus modifier to deny the witch. Would have been fluffy with Khorne hates psykers and all.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

1. I LOVE the new flamer and screamer rules! Both these units got a hell of a lot better at what they do. The seeker chariots are pretty terrible though. The regular chariot in the codex is a lot better. The heavy support squads are a little better, but they're not worth losing a daemon prince or soul grinder over.


2. I also LOVE the new nurgling models! Of course, being an Ork player, I like cartoony. The slaanesh chariots look amazing, but I wouldn't use them with the rules they have. I'd rather use them as a herald's chariot as an HQ choice. I'm still waiting for plastic fiends that don't look like crab-horses.


3. I still have the same problem I had in 5th edition: shooty enemy armies! You deep strike in and get shot to death. Joy. The new reserves rules helped a little though, as they're more likely to arrive sooner, rather than later.

Bolts really need to be spammed now in order to take down tougher vehicles, so I think the new screamers are going to be a must have. Flamers were better in 6th already, and the new rules make them even better!

Just about every non-hq Khorne unit got the shaft, with the downgrade of power weapons. 

My beloved Keeper of Secrets didn't really lose anything, but flying monstrous creatures got a lot more, so they seem a bit worse in comparison.

Daemonettes are now a better choice than Bloodletters, although overwatch and the improvements to templates hurt them quite a bit. Plague bearers have trouble reaching close combat, and furies are still too easy to kill. Really, the only troops that are really worth it now are the non-scoring nurglings, pink horrors, and allied chaos marines.

All flying monstrous creatures have become amazing, of course, and soul grinders got quite a boost too, making heavy support as coveted a slot as ever. However, due to all the enemy flyers we'll encounter, I think flying daemon princes will see more play then soul grinders.

Rending got a lot better, giving a big boost to most slaanesh units, and flesh hounds. Seekers are too fragile now, thanks to overwatch shooting.

Finally, Epidemus armies still have a lot of trouble catching the enemy, who can keep backpedaling and shooting every turn. Some allied Chaos Marine nurgle units would help, but I think you're probably better off allying Epidemus into a Chaos Marine Nurgle army, rather than the other way around.


4. I'm going to try allying some flying monstrous creatures (and the obligatory troop choice) into my Ork army. I'll let you know how it goes.


Overall, what seems to be happening is we're getting narrowed down to 1-2 competitive choices per force org type (aside from HQ, which still has plenty), so I think a lot of daemon armies are going to start looking the same.

Here's the breakdown, as I see it:

HQ

Bloodthirster
Lord of Change
Fateweaver
Skulltaker chariot
Herald of Tzeentch chariot
Herald of Slaanesh chariot (still a bargain)

ELITE

Fiends
Flamers

TROOP

Pink Horrors
Nurglings

FAST

Screamers
Flesh hounds

HEAVY

Daemon Princes w/flight
Soul Grinders


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

mynameisgrax said:


> Here's the breakdown, as I see it:
> HQ
> 
> Bloodthirster
> ...


I think the list you have here is almost spot on with my feelings about Daemons in 6th Edition.


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Seekers are still an absolute bargain for their price. I just prefer the new screamers :grin:

Also, why the KoS love? If anything hasn't the need for FMC's made them less of a pick for an HQ now?


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Ravner298 said:


> Seekers are still an absolute bargain for their price. I just prefer the new screamers :grin:
> 
> Also, why the KoS love? If anything hasn't the need for FMC's made them less of a pick for an HQ now?


(Shameless self promotion) be sure and check out me blog over the next few weeks when I post my comprehensive guide to Chaos Daemons that deals with Slaanesh Units.

In the mean time here are a few reasons I love KoS's: 

1. Pavane is alot more useful this edition as the old Fleet Rules ment you needed to use run instead of shooting to gain the benefit. This is not the case in 6th Edition.

2. They are Initiative 10 and have 6 base Attacks (7 on the Charge) so are great for Challenges and taking on other MC's and Characters.

3. They get access to Hit & Run, so not only can they not get stuck fighting 20 Boyz (unlike Bloodthirsters), but they can also catapult 3 D6 across the board in time for their next Turn, or leave the combat, fire Daemonic Gaze at the enemy and then recharge them and get another set of Hammer of Wrath and Charge bonuses.

4. All the Gifts sync really well with the Greater Daemon and only come in at 275pts (the same as a competitive Bloodthirster) and yet you get sooo much more. 

A 3 Shot Strength 5 AP3 shooting Attack, a mini-Lash, you deny the enemy an Attack, gain Hit & Run, and get +1 Strength. 


There only really knock is they aren't a FMC, but people are seriously overrating those too much anyway. They are great, but they aren't game winners by themselves.

I am seriously considering using a KoS as my HQ in 6th Edition.


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## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

D-A-C said:


> I think the list you have here is almost spot on with my feelings about Daemons in 6th Edition.


All the units you've added are indeed very good, I'm just not sure they're AS good as some of the other choices in the same Force Org slot. 

They're the Jordyn Wiebers of the army.

(Go USA! Go British Isles, Canada, and Australia! In fact, Go everyone who isn't China!)


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## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

You make some good points in the KoS favor, however they haven't gained an once of durability while the bloodthirster/fate/loc have. They are incredibly vunerable to shooting and they don't have the option to fly. I actually think one of their biggest advantages in comparison to the other GDs is their point cost. They don't need much outside of musk/might/pavene. While 6th has made them the kings of challenges, with all their upgrades bolstering and complimenting this, who in their right mind would ever issue or accept a challenge from a Keeper for that very reason? I know it's not always avoidable, but sometimes it is. You can always decline, not issue one, or have multiple characters in a squad to take the challenge on the juicy characters behalf.

Im a fan of the KoS, always have been, but their downfall always has been their survivability and durability. Their strengths have been bolstered alot in 6th, but their role hasnt changed. They still have problems surviving.


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## Iron_Freak220 (Nov 8, 2009)

I'm curious. Why do people think the Soul Grinder has improved all that much this edition? Is it just the hull points thing?


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Iron_Freak220 said:


> I'm curious. Why do people think the Soul Grinder has improved all that much this edition? Is it just the hull points thing?


Well there is a few reasons why they have gotten better in 6th Edition.

For starters though, it is worth noting that they were never really uncompetitive, it was just that they suffered because they were the sole vehicles in the codex, so as a result, all the enemies Anti-Mech weapons (which were always brought because 5th was mech heavy) concentrated their fire on them. However

1. There are now some more vehicles in the army (Fleshshredders/Chariots). They aren't great, but at least its something else for the enemies anti-mech to worry about and hopefully target (hopefully!)

2. 3 Soul Grinders with Phlegm is nearly 100pts less than two of the competitive build Daemon Princes.

3. They are impervious to small arms fire, Dp's can and will get torrented to death.

4. Pie-plates now effect vehicles even if they are only partially under it (in other words you don't need a direct hit anymore.

5. There is no wrecked roll anymore so they are statistically harder to destroy unless shot by weapons that are Ap1. In other words, they completely ignore half the vehicle damage chart.

6. Weapon destroyed rolls are now random so you no longer instantly loss your vital mawcannon.

7. If they are 25% covered they get a cover save.

Those are a few reasons why Soul Grinders are much better in 6th Edition.


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

Can you still take a slaanesh herald and give it the 'Slaanesh chariot' mount that it says you can give it in the main codex, because I may buy one of the new chariots and do that if so.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

falcoso said:


> Can you still take a slaanesh herald and give it the 'Slaanesh chariot' mount that it says you can give it in the main codex, because I may buy one of the new chariots and do that if so.


Hmmm, good question, my instinct is yes, but the way I'm reading it says no:

On page 7 of the official update it states:

A Herald of Slaanesh may take one of the following:

Mount of Slaanesh - xpts
Seeker Chariot - xpts
Exalted Seeker Chariot - xpts

In a way that suggests that you can no longer take the original one, but then again, all the new options are in either the Fast Attack and Heavy Support slots, so are they really interfering with HQ choices?

My gut says you can take the original, but the little caterpillar rules lawyer with glasses that lives inside my brain says that you can't.

Would love to hear other peoples opinions though. Deathklokk where are you when we need you? lol.


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## Fallen (Oct 7, 2008)

i think that you would get the stats of taking a chariot (minus becoming a unit of 1 calvary, now your an IC that cant leave your ride on an open-topped rhino-chariot that has either 2HP or 4HP


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## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

If you do still get the stats bonus going on one of these chariots then I am definately going to get one, that would be much more useful I think, except the wounds bonus because as soon as the chariot wrecks you would probably lose it, unless you are assaulting?


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## Madden (Jan 22, 2012)

> (minus becoming a unit of 1 calvary, now your an IC that cant leave your ride on an open-topped rhino-chariot that has either 2HP or 4HP


Not quite true it's only the stock alluress that can't disembark, I see nowt in the rules saying a herald can't get off if it's wrecked. as to useing the dex profile I'd say yes but only if your not using the new kit as it's got a different name and its own rules.


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