# DE vs Armor/Walkers



## IntereoVivo (Jul 14, 2009)

How do people deal with Armor as Dark Eldar? So far Dark Lances haven't been working for me (could be my crappy rolling ).

Also, how do people plan on dealing with AV12 Walkers in CC?

I feel like the lack of ability to deal with Armor via Assault really hurts.


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Have you tried using heat lances? If that fails try using some talos.


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## IntereoVivo (Jul 14, 2009)

That I have not tried. Maybe I'll give them a shot.


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## Blackyujiro (Mar 9, 2009)

Walkers in assault? Wyches with haywire grenades, done.


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## KhainiteAssassin (Mar 18, 2009)

Blackyujiro said:


> Walkers in assault? Wyches with haywire grenades, done.


ever hear this rule, stop me if you have but:

Walkers are HIT on 6s ALWAYS by grenades


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## IntereoVivo (Jul 14, 2009)

KhainiteAssassin said:


> ever hear this rule, stop me if you have but:
> 
> Walkers are HIT on 6s ALWAYS by grenades


Page number please.


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## VanitusMalus (Jun 27, 2009)

pg 73 of the BRB: "Grenades and meltabombs can be used against a walker. A model will only manage to score a hit with a grenade against a walker on a roll of 6."

Ofcourse this doesn't apply is it's stunned or immobilized


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## IntereoVivo (Jul 14, 2009)

Thanks. A squad of Wyches (say 10) should get ~ 1 glance and ~ 0.2 pens each round of combat...hardly effective considering walkers ignore shaken.


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## Cyklown (Feb 8, 2010)

Haywires are generally crap when it comes to killing any vehicle ever. They're worth it against... Monoliths. That's it.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Basically, if your opponent is fielding walkers of any kind, hang back and snipe them until they stop being assault-based threats (either immobilise or destroy) and then use your speed to jump forwards to claim objectives and such in the later turns.

I think lance spam is the way to go, one on every raider and at least a pair of Ravagers or Flyers in the Heavy Support section, along with blasters on any squad in a Raider should do the trick. The melta lances are nice, but reavers/scourge are too expensive (78 points) to be used as a disposable 1-shot melta when you can just put them in range of a 15pt blaster on turn two with ease.

I like the idea of a unit of 6 Reavers with 2 Heat Lances running interference though. Can harass more or less anything in the game with ease.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

IntereoVivo said:


> Also, how do people plan on dealing with AV12 Walkers in CC?


killing them before they reach close combat would probably help, if you can't do it with dark lances, get new dice, because that would be the only reason why you'd be unable to.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Agreed with the others never get into CC with a walker because if you do with DE - you're doing it wrong, Walkers move slow compared to DE and anything at the speed of a walker in the DE can kill it (aka Talos)


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## Ferik (Nov 5, 2008)

Unless of coarse they have been drop poded in then they are right on top of you.

Then you'll have to rely on your lances to deal with then especially if they take out
some of your raiders.


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

Yeah avoid and use your speed to get rid of them from distance. As mentioned before though, walkers like Dreads that drop pod in behind can be real trouble because that could force you to play in the middle of the battlefield. So you will have to commit to either destroy the dreads or ignore them for now and go after their deployment side. 

In most SM armies that have 3 Dreads in total that drop pod in which would have 2 drop in the beginning, that doesnt leave that many points in the army to put in their deployment zone. Most likely it would probably be better to take the fight to the rest of the SM instead of the Dreads. It will leave the Dreads useless for most of the game and the opponent would probably expect you to take care of them. This will only work if your entire army is mobile. So squads of Kabalite Warriors or Wracks that dont have transport and are ment to stay back on objectives will be in big trouble if you desert them to the Dreads. Thats why I prefer to have all of my DE army in transport :mrgreen:


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Ferik said:


> Unless of coarse they have been drop poded in then they are right on top of you.
> 
> Then you'll have to rely on your lances to deal with then especially if they take out some of your raiders.


I'm in the camp of "Ignore them completely". If they manage to land near a Raider, then one of three things happen:

- It burns a Warrior squad Raider. Assault the Dread with the squad so it can't shoot anything else and forget about it. It'll take the dread the rest of the game to kill the squad (if it even manages that).

- It burns the ride of a squad you care about. Get another Raider to drop its Warriors, pick up the squad you care about in the Warrior Raider, and assault the dread with the disposable warrior squad. Same end result as option 1, except you're slowed down a little. Sucks to be you, but sucks more to be the person who spent 140 pts on a unit that just killed a 60pt cardboard box transport.

- It didn't kill anything, or killed something that wasn't a Transport (dammit). Drive off a minimum of 24" and maximum of 36" and put some terrain in between it and you. Laugh as it does nothing for the rest of the game.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Voidravens.


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## fowlplaychiken (Apr 6, 2008)

Lances should work, but remember; most of the str 8 weapons the DE can field also move 12 and still shoot. try and get behind them for the pop.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Ferik said:


> Unless of coarse they have been drop poded in then they are right on top of you.
> 
> Then you'll have to rely on your lances to deal with then especially if they take out
> some of your raiders.


if its a multi melta dread why bother, multi meltas never miss, and never do damage, they are cursed weapons that you can easilt get out of range of.

now if they dropped in riflemen dreadnoughts thats a different matter, 4 twin-linked autocaanon shots against armour 10 raiders is gonna hurt, and if a third comes in its gonna hurt and infantry left behind as well.

thankfully most marine players are too dumb to realise autocaanon dreads are more effective vs low armour than multi melta dreads are.


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## beakerpsych (Nov 12, 2010)

How about ram them from behind. This way you get to say "I am going to shove that raider so far up that Dread's a**, that it will be walking funny for a week!" and then you get to laugh the evil laugh agin when it works. A** raping dreadnoughts is funny. Still not cc though, i know.


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## Ferik (Nov 5, 2008)

True Meltas are cursed... for whatever reason unless you are using Vulkan of coarse.

As for tank shoking its rear good luck its back is against a drop pod and it can death or glory at str 10 so not a good idea IMO.


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## beakerpsych (Nov 12, 2010)

*Uber-grotesques*

Other than the talos and chronos, we also have grotesques that have str 6 with 2 pain tokens furiously charging. If you take Urian then you get Uber grots with str 6, then str 7 when furiously charging. These guys are going to be great against an armored battle line, i think. Only so-so against dreads though.( 4 ubers = 12 str 7 attacks, that is about 1 glance and one pen. ) Each hit of a dreads close combat weapon will kill a uber grotesque? Right? After the first round only can glance against av 13.


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## beakerpsych (Nov 12, 2010)

*Uber-grotesques*

Other than the talos and chronos, we also have grotesques that have str 6 with 2 pain tokens furiously charging. If you take Urian then you get Uber grots with str 6, then str 7 when furiously charging. These guys are going to be great against an armored battle line, i think. Only so-so against dreads though.( 4 ubers = 12 str 7 attacks, that is about 1 glance and one pen. ) Each hit of a dreads close combat weapon will kill a uber grotesque? Right? After the first round only can glance against av 13.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Turbogrots are not a bad idea. They're bound to start with FC (assuming the player isn't pants-on-head retarded) and there should be 5 of them (you're not going to send one of your precious HQs there are you? And no, Berserk Rampage isn't a problem, its a bloody 2+). Lets assume the unit has an Aberration with Scissorhands (thats probably the best thing you can give him IMHO). That means 16+7=23 S7 hits at I5. There should be a few glances and penetrations there, unless of course if you need new dice. 

Otherwise, Talos, maybe Cronos, Dark Lances, Blasters, maybe Dizzies and the occasional S10 Archon.


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## IntereoVivo (Jul 14, 2009)

can someone point me to where in the codex it says Grotesques can get S6?


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

IntereoVivo said:


> can someone point me to where in the codex it says Grotesques can get S6?


p. 83, Urien's entry in the army list.


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## Izzleydill (Jul 11, 2010)

beakerpsych said:


> How about ram them from behind. This way you get to say "I am going to shove that raider so far up that Dread's a**, that it will be walking funny for a week!" and then you get to laugh the evil laugh agin when it works. A** raping dreadnoughts is funny. Still not cc though, i know.


Ramming walkers with *DCCW* is a terrible idea, because they be still alive most of the time, and then get to punch you in the next turn (automatically penetrating AV10). Then if they immobilize or stun you, they will get to hit you on your turn.

Edit: Missed a Rule and had to correct


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## beakerpsych (Nov 12, 2010)

I think that if I tried to ram a dread with a raider that they get their death or glory immediately, and with str 8? 10? cc weapon, the raider is probably very dead. 
Still, levity is it's own weapon.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I think theres a wargear upgrade for Raiders that gives them some extra AV when ramming. D3 I guess. Would make ramming much less risky. Then again, if you're ramming your Raider into something its probably missing its gun and passangers so its perfectly fine IMO.


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