# Origins of the 'nids



## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

it may be explaned in a nid codex but i dont have one. how old are the Nids? where they come from? i was always wondering this and though maybe some nidfreaks could shead some light on this topic for me.:victory:


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## Kharnage (Sep 24, 2008)

They come from the intergalactic void, which I believe is a warp-free area of space.


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## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

Well, they come from somewhere beyond the galactic rim - whether that means that they're from the void or from another galaxy (my preferred option) is up for debate.

The assumption I get from the fluff is they finished chomping down on one galaxy and now they're moving on the this one!


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## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

cool i was thinking along those lines but i never knew for sure


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

Kendares said:


> it may be explaned in a nid codex but i dont have one. how old are the Nids? where they come from? i was always wondering this and though maybe some nidfreaks could shead some light on this topic for me.:victory:


The originating fluff begind the Tyranids doesn't exist to my knowledge, but some key things seem to indicate a much bigger scale than most would think. IIRC, the Eldar fled this Galaxy in the hopes of a establishing their empire again in a new one with a few less races trying to off them. They happened upon the Tyranids and retreated back to this galaxy bringing them with. 

What I find disturbing as a human, is that the Tyranid invasions aren't beind localized in one sector of the galactic map. I can certainly understand the biological aspect of it, where a scouting invasion paves the way for larger invasions, as much as real bugs work in similar fashion with pharamones. What I don't understand, is how potent that scent/link/whateveryouwanttocallit must be in order to call Tyranids from the other side of the galaxy. 

Each Fleet has had it's own entry point from entirely different positions of our map. This indicates to me that they aren't coming from one other Galaxy, but several. So, exactly where are we on the grand scale of things? In the smack dab of a bug infesting feeding ground? 

And when you think about it, how were we passed up this whole time? Did the Tyranids just happen to evolve the same way in different galaxies? Did they exist here before but were wiped out before they could evolve a great deal? If they are all connected in one massive hive mind, exactly what does the Queen look like? (I'd personally wager a living planet, but that's just me)

Food for thought. Now eat!


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## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

i dont remember any nids in the HH books. so far. could the"big brain" have a tactic in mind? like surround the humies kinda thing? or are their attacks entry points too random?


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## Gakmesideways (Aug 16, 2008)

Well, the current hive fleet incursions thus far, indicate that the Tyranid menace originated from points outside our galaxy to the north, below the galactic plane, and most notably, the east.

This would lead us to believe that they are in fact, a *vast* swarm that could encompass a space larger than our galaxy, and that the first tendrils of it, are probing the galaxy.

As far as who is running the show, I would agree that the hive mind must be some vast and humanly incomprehensible and maddening creature that drives the swarms.

This isn't necessarily on topic, but, despite the fact that figures represent the Tyranid host as night infinite, that they will be unsuccessful. None of the powers in our galaxy are very pleased about the incursion.

Chaos is none too pleased about anyone else trying to destroy their galaxy, as noted in the Tyranid codex from a quote of Abadon.

The Tau are pretty miffed that the corridor of planets that they are trying to convert and expand into is getting munched, as noted by another quote from the Tyranid Codex.

The Imperium? Hates the Tyranids because they are aliens, what other reason do they need?

The Eldar have a grudge against them after Iyanden got munched.

The Necrons hate all life...

The Orks finally have some one as numerous as themselves to beat up on.

While I don't see many, if any, of these powers teaming up to defeat them, the Tyranids are going to have their hands full in the next few years. *Especially* against the powers of Chaos and the Imperium.


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## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

i think if anything this is just the first wave of hivefleets. and if the nids conqured a galaxy then the must have alot more then the fewthat have attacked us so far dont u think?


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## Exitus_10 (Jul 14, 2008)

Maybe or maybe not, They can also be a Swarm of beings _retreating_ beaten from a galaxy too, maybe they have repriortized targets and we are their first real munch? maybes can go on like that a whole lot.


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## GhostGaunt36 (Oct 2, 2008)

speaking as a nid player, no one knows were they came from, all that is known is that the Hivemind exists in the Warp and possible real space. Deamons won't attack the Hivemind because it is so powerul.

The name Tyranids is only uses because they detroyed a major planet called Tyran. so Tyranids isn't even their true name.


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## GhostGaunt36 (Oct 2, 2008)

it is rumored that the Hivemind's true fleet is comming, since every Hive fleet has become increasingly larger than the last. it is only a matter of time before the HM gets to galaxy, then we are looking at a campagin box for that.


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## stormshroud (Apr 27, 2007)

There was one of the mistaken identity fleets, Ouroboris (I think), that was a race of Centaur like creatures (Zoats, for those with memories that go back that far) travelling in ships that where like giant shells that came to the galaxy escaping their own which was being destroyed. They may have claimed to be escaping oppressive masters? Don't have a codex to hand.

Which leads me to lean to the conclusion that the 'nids are the equivalent of intergalatic locusts consuming galaxy after galaxy.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

stormshroud said:


> There was one of the mistaken identity fleets, Ouroboris (I think), that was a race of Centaur like creatures (Zoats, for those with memories that go back that far) travelling in ships that where like giant shells that came to the galaxy escaping their own which was being destroyed. They may have claimed to be escaping oppressive masters? Don't have a codex to hand.


Zoats were actually a tyranid organism, but one that was developed to be independent of the hive mind, to act as ambassadors or vanguard elements like genestealers. They rebelled and fled the hive mind. Unfortunately, they met the same fate as the squats and slann.


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## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

i dont think the combined forces in this galaxy could beat the entire nid horde that could come :no: we have enough trouble with 1 hive fleet. now imagine 100 twice the size of the ones now uke: ouch!


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

Kendares said:


> i dont remember any nids in the HH books. so far. could the"big brain" have a tactic in mind? like surround the humies kinda thing? or are their attacks entry points too random?


The best laid plans are the ones no one knows until to late. Take a look at 'The Dark Knight' for a perfect example of this. Granted, I do doubt that the hive does have a higher understanding of combat tactics, but would stand to reason it would travel down the path of 'most food for least effort' kind of thing. If one fleet was destroyed, that could explain other entry points. Much like several animals scope out for easy targets.


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## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

Empy great psyker. hivemind = great psyker.
Emp=hivemind!!:shok:


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## ironhammer (Aug 14, 2008)

ALRIGHT I"M SICK OF THIS! as a nid player i have read the nid codex, and your understanding of the hive mind is flawed! you are all comparing it to the zerg over mind. The hive mind is much more complicated than that, it has no body, each nid on the ground acts towards the needs of the army as a whole and each army acts towards the benefit of their ship and the ships move and act to sustain the fleet. the hive mind is not one creature but all the creatures in the fleet working to sustain each other like how a real insect hive works, IT SAYS SO RIGHT IN THE CODEX. that was why in an earlier post i suggested that each fleet has a hivemind of it's own. So get this straight tyranids aren't zerg, THEY'RE TYRANIDS! SEESH!!!


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Ok, calm down, they're _actually_ plastic figures. 

I think it's safe to assume that tyranids are the 4th, near endless race. Their dead get remade back into more tyranids.

I always presumed they were a darwinian evolution of bugs which spread rapidly, taking over a variety of galaxies hence the attacking from all sides. This would makes sense, as each galaxy would bring slightly different conditions to bear on the seperate fleets of 'nids, hence the different colour for fleets. I mean, I don't think they have different colours to tell each other apart, more to represent genetic diversification.

The hive mind I envision being a Galaxy spanning shared mind, wth conduits on each Fleet in one particularly large creature, like a queen bee, so all the queen bees of all the different fleets are linked into one conscious, thinking entity. I can't imagine, what with the hive mind being what it is, that each fleet is completely independant of the others.

But yeah, 3 or 4 editions down the line, I think all that are going to be left is the spore producing orcs, the unkillable necrons, the unkillable daemons of chaos, and the recycling nids. 

Personally I think GW kinda killed the mood of the universe (no pun intended) for me by putting human/eldar/taukind up against 3/4 (depending on your alignment) unkillable enemies. Instead of an epic struggle to survive, it seems a tedious inevitablility that everybody is going to die. 

Oh well


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

beenburned said:


> Ok, calm down, they're _actually_ plastic figures.
> 
> I think it's safe to assume that tyranids are the 4th, near endless race. Their dead get remade back into more tyranids.
> 
> ...



Well said. I agree with the last part especially.


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## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

maybe the nids changed their color to represent different hives on purpose. like we do to differentiate our differnt squads. and i wonder how many therapist there are in the universe. it seems to be a very depressing world that they live in


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Kendares said:


> maybe the nids changed their color to represent different hives on purpose. like we do to differentiate our differnt squads. and i wonder how many therapist there are in the universe. it seems to be a very depressing world that they live in


I doubt it would be to differentiate between different hives personally. I mean, they have a shared mind, they'd instinctively know who belonged to which hive. I mean if you look at different hives of ants...they may be different sizes, but they all have the same tedious brown colour, so they must just know which hive they all belong too, or maybe it's the fact that they just don't need to know who is from who. Each individual tyranid knows what it is doing, sod the rest. 

But yeah, I still reckon darwinian natural selection for colour difference, or whatever.


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## Fenrakk101 (Feb 23, 2008)

You guys keep thinking of the Hive Mind as a planet-sized being that is coming towards the Milky Way. This isn't Transformers from years ago where there was the huge planet-sized cyborg.
I am advisor for my Tyranids-playing sister, and have read the codex thoroughly several times.
The Hive Mind is thought, consisting of ideas and tactics (sorta reminds me of Tzeentch). It is called the Hive MIND for a reason. It is a disembodied thought living in the Warp, not a huge impervious brain.
I agree with ironhammer, the Tyranids are one organism. If you've ever seen Avatar: The Last Airbender swamp episode, they say something like that. The swamp was one tree spread out over miles. The same thing with the Tyranids: one organism striving to achieve one purpose.

My view of 40k is this: a race against time. One species must conquer the galaxy to stop the Tyranid hordes.


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Fenrakk101 said:


> You guys keep thinking of the Hive Mind as a planet-sized being that is coming towards the Milky Way. This isn't Transformers from years ago where there was the huge planet-sized cyborg.
> I am advisor for my Tyranids-playing sister, and have read the codex thoroughly several times.
> The Hive Mind is thought, consisting of ideas and tactics (sorta reminds me of Tzeentch). It is called the Hive MIND for a reason. It is a disembodied thought living in the Warp, not a huge impervious brain.
> I agree with ironhammer, the Tyranids are one organism. If you've ever seen Avatar: The Last Airbender swamp episode, they say something like that. The swamp was one tree spread out over miles. The same thing with the Tyranids: one organism striving to achieve one purpose.
> ...


About the hivemind...that's pretty much exactly what I was saying in my post.

About the single organism...well..they're not really are they. They have a shared mind (The hive mind) which drives each tyranid to the same goal, but I just don't see that they're one organism. Perhaps if every single tyranid worked together as one, but the fact that the race as a whole is split into multiple hives with different seperate goals (well, killing different things) makes me think of each hive as being a seperate organism. 

But I wouldn't say they're one organism, no.


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## Fenrakk101 (Feb 23, 2008)

Think about it: they all have the same goal. If they came from one angle, they wouldn't eat as much. They are driven to devour all biomatter, and once this planet is sucked dry, they will move on.

EDIT: I mean galaxy, not planet


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Yeah, so they share the same mind, and therfore the same goal, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the fact that there are lots and lots of organisms.

I can see why you would say it, as if each tyranid were a cell in an overall body, but my point is that your body isn't split into a bunch of globules of tissue spread about a room. You're in one place and your cells are all linked biologically, as well as mentally or whatever. You may or may not get the point of that anology, but in then end it's really just my opinion and tbh, I see no reason for an argument here. I mean, we're talking about how we think of them, not an analogy for them, so yeah.

It's all good k:


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## Fenrakk101 (Feb 23, 2008)

Not to start a full-blown argument, but the Tyranids could very well surround the entire galaxy. If I had a ball, I could hug it and bring my arms around it, and I'd be one organism. I believe the entire space for kilometres around is full of Tyranids waiting to see the face of the enemy.


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Fenrakk101 said:


> I believe the entire space for kilometres around is full of Tyranids waiting to see the face of the enemy.


I bloody well hope not :shok:


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## Fenrakk101 (Feb 23, 2008)

That goes back to my theory of the whole point of 40K: one race must win to stop the Tyranids or all is lost


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Well, you could say the same thing about necrons...or chaos daemons, or orcs if they get their act together, as I said in my original post.


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## Fenrakk101 (Feb 23, 2008)

The tyranids are more expansive


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

True, but necrons can't actually be killed as even if they don't repair on the battlefield, the remains get phased back to the tomb where each and everyone is completely repaired, neither can chaos daemons who just return back to the warp so they brood for a while before attacking again, and when an orc dies, it sends out many spores which will grow into more orcs, meaning they can never truly be killed. 

None are going to win. There will be ebbs and flows as one of the 4 races gains the upper hand , but really, GW has created a literal eternity of war, which sucks.


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

Fenrakk101 said:


> Not to start a full-blown argument, but the Tyranids could very well surround the entire galaxy. If I had a ball, I could hug it and bring my arms around it, and I'd be one organism. I believe the entire space for kilometres around is full of Tyranids waiting to see the face of the enemy.


It's all depending on how you perceive the same thing; some people see a giant "brain" as it's own entity, whereas others see it as a brain of a single entity. Regardless, there's usually a 'hub' or a driving force. Once it's cut off, the rest of the organism usually becomes useless. 

In your example, your hand is pretty much a hunk of flesh if I pop you in the head. Sure your hand and your head are you, but you'll still be kicking (albeit slightly pissy) if I cut your hand off. 

In standard Hives, they become rather unstable when the Queen is killed. You could logically assume the Tyranids have something similar, considering they are modelled after real hives. 

Plus, it would give humanity a chance at an unwinnable foe. When you want to kill a snake, cut off the head.


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## rgw (Jan 29, 2008)

What if the Tyranids are more like the buggers from Ender's game? I'll try not to give any spoilers but maybe they, as a collective hive mind can't conceive that another race isn't like themselves and essentially unkillable?

The tyranids are just trying to find their place in the galaxy, which would be a place where they can sustain and thrive relative to the enviroment?

And I don't think they'd kill everything, they have to leave some to repopulate the galaxy for the next feeding run!


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## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

beenburned said:


> None are going to win. There will be ebbs and flows as one of the 4 races gains the upper hand , but really, GW has created a literal eternity of war, which sucks.


In the grim darkness of the far future...


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Syph said:


> In the grim darkness of the far future...


True, but it doesn't feel like a war when nobody has any chance of winning. More like a gradual slaughter.


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## KellysGrenadier (Jul 13, 2008)

I like to think of it like this...

Imperial and Tau space has bore the brunt of the Tyrannic invasion. There's not many more hive fleets after this lot.

Oh well.


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## Fenrakk101 (Feb 23, 2008)

Revelations said:


> It's all depending on how you perceive the same thing; some people see a giant "brain" as it's own entity, whereas others see it as a brain of a single entity. Regardless, there's usually a 'hub' or a driving force. Once it's cut off, the rest of the organism usually becomes useless.
> In standard Hives, they become rather unstable when the Queen is killed. You could logically assume the Tyranids have something similar, considering they are modelled after real hives.


Think of it as a water pipe. There may be millions of pipes running into your bathroom, kitchen, and basemnet (Leviathan, Kraken, and Behemoth) but they essentially come from one source: the ocean (the Hive Mind). If you are on the top of a hill you need a pump to bring the water up (A Queen). The Queens channel the Hive Mind, they do not make it.

(correct me if I just repeated everything you said :wink:


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## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

Revelations said:


> In standard Hives, they become rather unstable when the Queen is killed. You could logically assume the Tyranids have something similar, considering they are modelled after real hives.
> 
> Plus, it would give humanity a chance at an unwinnable foe. When you want to kill a snake, cut off the head.


Well, if you read the stories of how the earlier hive fleets were destroyed, destorying the major hive ships seems to be a surefire was to disrupt the Tyranid link to the hive mind, causing the smaller organisms to be thrown into disarray. Seem like they've already had thoughts along these lines.

Synapse control seems to go:

Warriors/Zoanthropes - Tyrants - Dominatrix - Hive Ships - ?

It can only be assumed that there is a larger type than the Hive Ships which co-ordinated the dual pronged attack by Hive Fleet Leviathan. From the way the Tyranids are obviously arranged in a pyramid structure of control, it can only be assumed that there is something bigger out there controlling the movement of seperate hive fleets.

Also - I've had a thought for a while - with the amount of psychic ability the 'nid have, could it not be that they are being drawn towards the Astronomican, a bit like a moth is attracted to light or ants to food?


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## Exitus_10 (Jul 14, 2008)

Thats an interesting theory critta, but the Astronamicon(sic) does not shine beyond certain parts of the Galaxy, example is why Macharius stopped his Crusades, because he couldn't get farther than the Beacon allowed and had to settle for what he got. But the psychic blast from Slaneesh's birth may have carried onto the outer galaxy and may have attracted the Tyranids when they were picking clean a Galaxy?? then they prolly decided (hive mind) to attack that place (our Galaxy) as ample information about it may have leaked to them via the psyhic wave??


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## whatwhat (Oct 7, 2008)

Gakmesideways said:


> Well, the current hive fleet incursions thus far, indicate that the Tyranid menace originated from points outside our galaxy to the north, below the galactic plane, and most notably, the east.
> 
> This would lead us to believe that they are in fact, a *vast* swarm that could encompass a space larger than our galaxy, and that the first tendrils of it, are probing the galaxy.


You might be right however if you think about the distance between galaxies its wouldnt be comparatively much more distance when youve came all that way to go round the side or underneath. So they could just be from a single galaxy.

xenology says that once a nid is unlinked from the hive mind they return to their basic instinct which is to kill whatever they see, or each oter. And the best way to beat them would be to disrupt the communication. my theory based on that is the nids, at the top of the chain, are being controlled by a different species entirely. considering there just stupid animals when they arent being told what to do.


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## Fenrakk101 (Feb 23, 2008)

As I said before, the Hive Mind is like the Astronomican. Therefore, it could be that the 'Hive Mind' is, in fact, another species entirely, using something similar to the Astronomican. So, whatwhat, you could certainly be right. The Tyranid Heirophants (The Spider-Titan from ForgeWorld) could not be enslaved to the Hive Mind, but vice-versa. In fact, Although the Tyranids did (in my opinion) come from more than one galaxy. I believe they started in one, but grew so numerous that they could travel to several galaxies from that point, and perhaps Slaanesh awakening did summon them - a lot of them - and drew them towards this galaxy. And with the increasing distance between galaxies (if you didn't know, they're moving apart, and 38,000 years from now, it would certainly take a while to get from one to the other), 10,000 years+ seems a reasonable ETA from any galaxy to ours.


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## whatwhat (Oct 7, 2008)

yeh but Idon't think you're right about the slaanesh thing as that predates a hive fleet attack by a long long way and there have been less time between each of the attacks. And why would a chaos god only exist around one galaxy.

xenolology goes on a lot about genestealer hybrids and infecting other species and that the patriarch of a stealer family has a large psychic presence which acts as a homing beacon for hive fleet attacks. So its possible that something infected by a stealer entered the galaxy thus bringing them with them. thats half a theory i no but I don't like the slaanesh one.


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## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

Slaanesh was born during the fall of the eldar. thats way before any of the nids got to to galaxcy. but i do agree that slaanesh is most likely not behind the nids arival in this galaxcy


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

Anybody consider that the Nids were made by the Old Ones? What better way to destroy an "unkillable" enemy then a with a renewable army?


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## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

thats a cool therory but y would they make a race which if lost control of could destroy the universe:angry: or maybe the hivemind is an Old One:shok: and he rebeled


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## ironhammer (Aug 14, 2008)

the idea that the hive fleets are being drawn in by the astromican is an interesting theory, but there is little to support that, if it were true wouldn't the fleets also be drawn towards craftworlds, warpstorms as these are also concentrations of extreme psychic energy? the only craftworld attacked thus far was indalyan <i know i misspelled it> and that was not really an active persuit it was more like the ship got in the fleet's way.


One other thing I don't think the tyranids are as vast as some may think, if our galaxy were besieged by tyranids from all sides they would be attacking from all sides, the western fringe, the segmentum obscurus and segmentum gothic have seen little if any tyranid activity, which could be because there are no tyranids in that part of the galaxy.


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## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

maybe they are just coming from the east side. so the north east,east, and south east will all be hit. i dont know all the locations of nid attack  but from the sounds of it the nids are coming from the eastern sides of the galaxcy


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

Well, the galaxy isn't being "besieged." It's being probed. Multiple times it has been said that these fleets are just tendrils. I can imagine there being a ridiculous amount of tyranids. And TBH, even if this is all there is...well, they recycle their dead, and ours. Not unkillable, but probably harder to take out then necrons. With necrons we should just be able to take down all the nodes and tomb planets with exterminatuses and such. With tyranids, who are mobile and constantly evolving (read genestealers with human DNA, zoanthropes with eldar...where else did they encounter these blokes?) I think it looks like more of a war of attrition, but I'm not sure.

In terms of the fall, it happened 10,000 years before the tyranids turned up. That sounds about right, especially if they have warp travel or some other equivalent. It could well be. Either that or GW wanted a gribbly race and just had it attack for no reason other then to make some cool mini's and didn't put a huge amount of effort into the fluff  

Iuno.


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## General_Subutai (Sep 16, 2008)

*Interesting...*

Revelations, you said:

The originating fluff begind the Tyranids doesn't exist to my knowledge, but some key things seem to indicate a much bigger scale than most would think. IIRC, the Eldar fled this Galaxy in the hopes of a establishing their empire again in a new one with a few less races trying to off them. They happened upon the Tyranids and retreated back to this galaxy bringing them with. 

Thats very interesting & a good theory but I just wanted to know if that is actual GW fiction or just a personal theory?


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## Druchii in Space (Apr 7, 2008)

On a side note, I'm actually starting to think the answer for the Tyranids lies in the Necrons. More than once its been noted the Tyranids seem to ignore/avoid Necron worlds, and going on how those ole C'tan love sucking lifeforces for their daily pick me up. A huge endless lifespawn of Tyranid fleet would have to look like one epic buffet to them.


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

General_Subutai said:


> Thats very interesting & a good theory but I just wanted to know if that is actual GW fiction or just a personal theory?


It was GW cannon on one point. But for the life of my I can't remember what Codex had that or whether or not they decided to rescind it. IIRC, I believe it was a previous Nid Codex.


Kind of an odd thought; the Necron Pylons keep the Warp in check (to some extent), possibly interfere with Nid communcation? Funny follow up thought... giant bug zappers? :laugh:


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## jakkie (Dec 21, 2007)

In the necron codex, it says that this galay was the one that spawned the Necron Nightbringer, and the necrontyr (unless i took it totaly out of context!). so the tyranids could have sensed the Psychic signals from the sleeping C'tan, and sent some probes out to investigate. then, when they found the abundance of life in the galaxy, they sent for the rest of the hive. 
but when the sensed what the C'tan were, they realised that they should avoid them.

OR, i also though it was because they Nids sought out life on the planets. the Tomb Worlds wouldnt register anything alive, if it was just Crons, or something incridibly poewrful if it was the Nightbringers planet.


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## Teranis (Oct 7, 2008)

Hmm.. I really dont see how any of the races are 'unkillable'

Orcs, produce spores when they die which form more orcs. Thats an identifable biological process which could be halted, destroyed or in many ways countered with biological, or nuclear warfare, none of which the imperium would hesitate to use.

Tyranids, every battle they lose, they lose biological resources. After enough losses, they would be defeated.

Necrons, admittedly i know almost nothing about Necro lore, however if they are being transported back to a place which repairs them, that place is destroyable, or technology can be developed to disrupt that process.

Chaos, the only unkillable race, altho, if chaos is fueled by the emotions of the mortal races, if all the mortal races were destroyed, wouldnt that cause the gods and demons to vanish?


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

theres also all that fluuf about the Outsider creating the NIds and the Hive Fleet Krakon? trying to avoid some ball of energy in their path, which is believed to have been created by the Outsider.


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## CommanderAnthor (Sep 28, 2008)

What if the Enslavers where Tyranids lol


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## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

> Chaos, the only unkillable race, altho, if chaos is fueled by the emotions of the mortal races, if all the mortal races were destroyed, wouldnt that cause the gods and demons to vanish?


no because there would be other races to take their place. they are fueld by emotions in general not just human ones. so any creature that has any type of emotion can fuel the gods. albeit they would be weakened severly but i doubt we could kill them without destroying the universe


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## when in doubt shoot! (Oct 19, 2008)

They are not really unkillable when you think about it, because they make new troops by decomposing the organic contents of the planet they were just on and making more nids. soo, we just have to be more inventive!
I remember a while back in a white dwarf there was a scenario where a few surviving guardsman of a nid invasion had to plant a bomb into a digestion pool so the hive ship sucked it up and it was then destroyed. 
(Or it was a teleport homer that would allow termies or something else to get aboard the ship and destroy them.) So like all fiction, the aliens aren't invincible they just require a bolder, zanier plan then the last.
like in independence day when the humans give the alien ship a computer virus.


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## Madeem (Oct 29, 2008)

The Nids aren't unkillable. they are a sort of fleetbased race.

In theory if we kill the fleet we kill the enitre invasion force and since they don't have any planet we can assume that the more fleet we destroy, the less frequent the attack will become untill they die out.
Then again we don't know how many fleet there are 2 begin with or there is a living planet who controls all we don't know of. I mean where else do the hive ships come from?

Anyone though about blowing up suns to super Nova the bugs out of here?


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## surreal-mind (Oct 11, 2008)

that would be cataclysmic, lol, i doubt that anything good would come out of destroying a sun, and forcing it to explode....


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Perhaps the Tyranids represent the unification of the galaxy, not its destruction. 
Think about it. Alone, all the other races/factions will perish against the vast numbers of the hive fleets. United, the Imperium, Orks, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necron, Chaos forces and Tau could repel them. The realisation of utter destruction for all could bring them all together.
Then with victory, all the races will realise they actually really like each other and hold hands in galactic peace and harmony. Ork will host picnics for Tau. Human will go to the pub with Eldar. Chaos will skip along playing kiss chase with Necron.

Or they will just kick the crap out of each other when the nids are dead.

The more I think of it, this would make a fantastic epic campaign involving the entire 40K universe. Far more interesting than the next Black Crusade.


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## surreal-mind (Oct 11, 2008)

i dont think necrons or orks, but maybe the others...


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## sopmod (Oct 9, 2008)

that would be cool the whole glaxey swarming with nids. That could lead to some awsome last stand missions where the defenders rig a bomb to destroy an entire system.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Sopmod, Khorne would be proud of you!


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## Greatdevourer (Dec 14, 2008)

Fluff aside, let's play what if... 

What if one of the higher minded Tyranid creatures was seperated from the Hive mind via the death of its fleet. Would it strive to rebuild, survive or evolve? And what if it were able to establish a new nest of Tyranid creatures and they too evolved. Would they develop their own brand of Hive mind, a mini version for their own brood?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

potentially, and if another Hive Fleet were to come upon them there would be 'war' and the winner would gain all the genetic material of the loser (ala Xenology/Tyranid Codex). Splinter Fleets have become independent in the past but once another a Hive/Splinter fleet comes into contact the scenario above is enacted. 

The Tyranids couldnt physically have been attracted by Slaanesh's birth- relatively speaking (in astronomical terms) Hive Fleet Behemoth would have been virtually on the Milky Way's border 10,000 years ago, so the birth may have incited some attention but the fleets were already 'here'- don't underestimate the breadth of the void between galaxies, it's much greater than the 'width' of a galaxy (even a dozen galaxies).

I know it's been said that the 3 major Hive Fleets so far to assault the Imperium are merely Scout Fleets for the Hive Mind and that this isn't the first Galaxy the 'Nids have assaulted, nor the 2nd, or 3rd etc. Depending on when the first Hive Fleets drifted off in this direction the current Tyranid invasion could be the last for a thousand generations or simply the precursor for next year's bloody harvest. But never forget that entering the Milky Way was completely accidental, a suitable analogy would be a speck of dust originating in Texas drifting and managing to land on the head of a pin in Alaska.


Oh yeah and if the Nid's did devour this Galaxy's biomass, the 'immortal' Necrons & Chaos would be utterly screwed- Chaos needs sentient life to be sustained, and whilst the C'tan were just able to wait out 60 million years whilst the Galaxy repopulated itself with a significant population of sentient life...well unless they went back to consuming stars I don't think they could survive the BILLIONS of years it would take for life to return (certainly the Necrons themselves couldn't).


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

The Necrons could survive, and they would just harvest the Tyranids. Tyranids are sentient creatures you know. And the Tyanids have only just arrived in the 41st Millenium, so obviously they could have been attracted by Slaanesh's birth it just took them a long time to get here. 

Just try to prove that it was completely accidental. It clearly wasn't. They were looking for a Galaxy to harvest, they didn't just happen to stumble upon one i.e. the difference between looking for an empty Coke can, and tripping over one.


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## wd6669 (Feb 27, 2008)

I think the Old one made the nids to correct there biggest mistake, the orks and eldar because despite what people keep saying the warp IS NOT EMOTION! the warp is made by emotions... (i know its confusing). Before the war with the necrons the warp was calm and it wasn't full of daemons but when the old ones made there lil psyker weapons the eldar it introduced emotions like war and death which skrewed the warp up so i think they saw that in their war they skrewed up another dimension(the warp) so now they have unleashed unfeeling bugs onto the already doomed galaxy to correct there biggest mistake and return the warp to a calm state. and no the warp does not need living things to exist it just needs living things to exist in its chaos state


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## Ferrus Manus (Apr 28, 2008)

I dont think we will be able to answer this question, we will have to wait for GW to continue the fluff (they are the gods of 40k). Its like the question "Where are the primarchs and will they come back?", "Who is Cypher?", only GW can answer these questions....

but still talking about Nids, i dont think the Old Ones created them as they come from another galaxy and mabye the Outsider C'tan's psycic ball thing attracted them... 

I think ive already posted this.. but there was some strong fluff (i think GW even mentioned it, but its not in the Nid Codex its somewhere else) that the Outsider left the galaxy and created the Nids for the same purpose as the Necrons, to kill everything. 
Of course your going to say im wrong because C'tan hate psycic powers but it is possible, they could have been created before the Imperium, taking a long time to kill the galaxy and then finally moving to this one....


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## Lupercal's Chosen (May 8, 2008)

The nids are supposed to be running as a species from something but anything that can make that much nids run scares me damn near to death!!! There is another theory that says that the rest of the universe is one big nid spawning ground and this is like the last sector for them to devour who knows where they came from who could know ever tryed to talk to a genestealer.

A million Credits to the guard who can talk to a genestealer and keep his face


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## Primarch Lord CAG (Dec 5, 2007)

so it could be anything?
wow go figure well anywhoo maybe each fleet has a queen which is the hive mind sorta common good thing like with ants and maybe just like ants when one fleet or nest finds another they kill each other ants dont get along well with others!


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## Kendares (Sep 9, 2008)

i wonder if GW will tell us everything. i doubt that because i think they like to see us squirm to try and think why this happened or what..ect. and what about the humans? even if the eldar wasnt created then the humans would throw the imiterium into chaos. so it doesnt make sense to totally kill the galaxy(and no life come back after the nids eat a planet so if they eat up this galaxy then there would never be naturally sustainable life on the planets. so crons could not wait it out they would need to find more life)
and i dont think you can scare nids. maybe the hivemind got scared but for the lower dudes i have never read about them every feeling emotion(except for pissed off)


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## commissar gaunt (Jan 22, 2008)

i think that the Nid fluff is sooo biased, GW might as well have just put on the first page of the codex YOU HAVE BRAGGING RIGHTS BECAUSE YOU'RE RACE IS GOING TO BEAT ALL THE OTHER ONES IN LIKE 10,000 YEARS TIME NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO TO TRY AND STOP YOU.


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## Discy (Oct 23, 2008)

I reckon that Tzeentch is controlling the 'nids, gods know why, which explains that constant evelution.
Then again, I reckon Space Marines are abhumans and the Emporer is a mutant so what do I know...


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Cato Sicarius said:


> The Necrons could survive, and they would just harvest the Tyranids. Tyranids are sentient creatures you know. And the Tyanids have only just arrived in the 41st Millenium, so obviously they could have been attracted by Slaanesh's birth it just took them a long time to get here.
> 
> Just try to prove that it was completely accidental. It clearly wasn't. They were looking for a Galaxy to harvest, they didn't just happen to stumble upon one i.e. the difference between looking for an empty Coke can, and tripping over one.


Not to be too flamey here but did you actually read everything I posted or just the little snippets you disagreed with? Because I never said anything about the Tyranids arriving earlier than the 41st Millennium, I said that due to the enormous distances inherent in space the Tyranids would have been basically on the Milky Way's door step around about the 30th Millennium (roughly around Slaanesh's 'birth') and that was an analogy- you do know what those are right?- you make it sound as if the next Galaxy was a couple of years space travel from this one instead of the hundreds of thousands (millions even) of light years.

I don't care how good the Hive Mind is at sensing things, what your suggesting would amount to someone on Neptune (I know it's not a solid planet but stick with me) coughing and some one in say Scotland hearing it and knowing the precise location of it's source!*

The Tyranids are here, that's great, and they were looking for an inhabited Galaxy- but they DIDN'T purposely head for this one from the outset of their journey.

*EDIT: Actually it'd probably be farther away than Neptune to be an accurately scaled analogy but you get the picture.


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## Komrad (Oct 30, 2008)

would you maybe go so far as to say the nids were created by the old ones? and it got a 'little' out of hand? lol as in they developed the nids to re-take the biomass from the dead after battle even from there own dead, and they can evolve extreamly rapidly and adapt in mere minutes to a planets enviroment during a invasion, and that seems right up the old ones alley of alien creation :biggrin: ah old ones...u little raskles...lol


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

Then why did they come from outside the galaxy, because the old ones definitely lived in it?

I'm sorry to say this theory just doesn't work.


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