# Most Worthless Unit?



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

In your opinion, what is the single most useless unit in your opinion? Consider points value as well as battlefield application-- a really good unit that's too expensive can be a bigger detriment to an army than a really cheap unit that doesn't do much!


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## demon of greed (Jan 20, 2008)

SM scouts what is the point in them? when for an extra two points per figure you could have a regular space marine tactical squad which also has more h/wep options a better armour save and in my oppinion look much better perhaps the only good thing about scouts is pinning or infiltrate.


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## FarseerNo3 (Mar 7, 2008)

SW wolf scouts are totally worth it,

plus don't scout bikers get to turbo boost move, before anyone starts after set up?

anyway most useless unit i think for SW, Blood Claw Jump packs like 40 pts each


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

space marine bikes. Why??? they are too expensive, and nevr do much


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## Rindaris (Mar 17, 2008)

Despite kitting up some fancy looking bikes I think I'm gonna have to second the opinion that SM bikers are pretty worthless compared to their points. They die just about as easily as a footed marine and cost a hefty deal more points. They have their uses, sure... but I've personally never been able to get them to really work for me.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

the dark eldar talos .the rest of the army is fast but not this guy he just slows the whole army down


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## FarseerNo3 (Mar 7, 2008)

i think bikes arnt useless, use them on a flank after you rhino assault them or they assault you and there awesome


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## Morgal (Sep 26, 2007)

Ogryn, like a marine..but without the iniative, leadership, options or save.


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

I find nothing useless (e.g. some people thought that grots were useless, ended up almost killing a terminator squad with them beefore the game finished )


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## Coffeemug (Jan 4, 2008)

biovore-not an effective heavy compared to others also a 0-1 restriction
inquisitor-way to many points just fluffy not efective
techmarine-to hard to use (really bad in the dark angels codex)
pariah-not necrons, slow, expensive
scout bikers- 4+ save on a bike pure crap
land speeder typhoon-never even seen one on the table 
lictors- to many points, unpredictable east to kill, non scoring, also a 0-1 restriction
repentia-to expensive, to hard to use, not fast enough.
there are probably more these are all equally bad in my book.


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

SM bikes definitely arent the most useless thing in 40k
i play Ravenwing and i can tell u that bikes are very useful
at least within the Dark Angels b/c Ravenwing are awesome
so to all u guys that say they are useless :fuck:

anyway, i think the most useless unit from what i have seen are Tau Drones
just the usual Drones with Pulse Carbines as a Fast Attack unit
definitely a lot better places to put ur points into in the Tau
thats just from what ive seen


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## Silb (Jan 28, 2008)

either SM bikes or techmarines


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## Otep (Mar 18, 2008)

i'm sorry but a friend of mine's commander was saved by a gun drone MORE times then i can count... (roilling 5 6's and 2 5's vs orks )

i haveto agree that Repentia are worthless >_< almsot twice as much as a sister, no upgrades, cant ride in a tank, can only be joined by a priest*AND* 0-1... wtf man!

yeah they can tear a tank apart in cc but who is really going to let a small hord of scantily clad women charge their tank?


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

Otep said:


> i'm sorry but a friend of mine's commander was saved by a gun drone MORE times then i can count... (roilling 5 6's and 2 5's vs orks )
> 
> i haveto agree that Repentia are worthless >_< almsot twice as much as a sister, no upgrades, cant ride in a tank, can only be joined by a priest*AND* 0-1... wtf man!
> 
> yeah they can tear a tank apart in cc but who is really going to let a small hord of scantily clad women charge their tank?


im not talking about Gun Drones or Shield Drones that accompany a character or squad
just the Drones by themselves as a Fast Attack unit, nothing more


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

I can see a repentita using her scantily clad bodies to lure in targets.

(in a tank)
Guardsman 1: Hey Bob check out those girls, they are almost naked
Guardsmen 2: Drive closer lets get a better look
Guardsmen 1 (after driving closer): Wow they look...wait OMG they have eviserators...reverse Bob REVERSE....
(Buzzing sound of eviserators against steel).


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## FarseerNo3 (Mar 7, 2008)

you wont be saying that when you see my project

of a space wolf iron priest on a bike with a full servo harness servo arm bolt pistol and thunder hammer


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## foulacy (Nov 24, 2007)

asianavatar said:


> I can see a repentita using her scantily clad bodies to lure in targets.
> 
> (in a tank)
> Guardsman 1: Hey Bob check out those girls, they are almost naked
> ...


hahaha

For me its definately Pariahs.

My DG used to be plague bearers but i wouldnt evan think about using them in the new dex.
I also dissagree with the person who said gun drones. Worthless unit just beacause there used wrong isnt right, there very good for the jobs there suposed to be used for like protecting commanders, just my opinion anyways.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Vespids are fairly useless. They're expensive and fragile and incredibly short ranged without being good at melee. That all adds up to suck. 

Gretchin in the new codex are also pretty lame. An ork boy serves the same role and costs twice as many points but is more than twice as good (a boy has 2x their toughness and is ridiculously better in CC and has a bunch of special abilities). Shoota boyz over grots any day.

Lesser daemons in the new chaos dex also make the suck list. 2 points fewer than a marine but without the 3+ save. They're not even as good in CC. Sure you can summon them on an icon but it's still not worth it.

Eldar storm guardians are pretty bad. 8 points for a model that sucks in both cc and shooting and is fragile.

I'm also personally against Tyranid Raveners. They're way, way too expensive and fragile for a mainly melee unit that deepstrikes in (because you can't assault the turn you deepstrike). Lictors can at least assault when they deepstrike but they only have 4 attacks on the charge and cost 80 points. Lictors also have a 4 toughness, a 5+ save, and 2 wounds. They also don't ignore armor saves (though they have rending). If they charge a marine unit they're likely to kill maybe 1 model for a 15 point return on an 80pt investment. In turn the SM are likely to kill the lictor. Even IG or firewarriors have a good chance of beating the lictor in CC. Suck!


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## Casmiricus (Mar 6, 2008)

For the IG-Ogryns. 25 points a piece and they die almost as easily as a normal guardsman.

For the DH-Orbital Strikes. They're flashy, but rarely, if ever work.

For the SM-Land Speeder Typhoon. Assault Cannon>pseudo-Missle Launcher.


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## FarseerNo3 (Mar 7, 2008)

storm guardians with warlocks are awesome


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## Rayler Tall (Feb 19, 2008)

I don't belive that their are any bad units in the game. It all depends on how you use them and what you use them with. For example Eldar can all be either the worst units or the best, it all depends on how you use them and what you use them with.


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## Apoctis (Feb 14, 2008)

well the most useless unit I can think of is the servo skull


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## mgtymouze (Dec 7, 2007)

Surprised no one mentioned CSM Possessed. These guys are almost twice as much as a regular CSM with no shooting and a random ability decided after deployment. Anytime I've used them, they get shot to crap before contact. They do look cool, but not effective.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm going to disagree on the Ogryns. They may be expensive to some people, but to me they are a good bargain for a "fire brigade" counter-attack unit. A squad of 3 only costs 75 points, 85 with a bonehead. That's 9 wounds, plus 6 attacks at s6. You don't get many upgrades, but then again you don't really need them. Not too bad. C'mon it's guardsmen after all. 

The more useless unit for my armies would definitely be the Sisters Repentia like someone else said. WAY too expensive. 5 models for 110 points minimum. They do get holy rage, so that helps the lack of a vehicle. However, arco-flagellants are a little better IMO. They are fearless and have a 4+ invul save. That's just me though.


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## CATzeentch (Dec 25, 2007)

Marneus calgar and his command squad are the worst...
yet the SM landspeeders are definitly in the top 10.


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## Gannon (Mar 13, 2008)

I have no complaints about any of the units in my army, except maybe those dirty little grots. Little buggers aren't worth the points. So yeah I'd probably have to go with them.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

i disagree with storm guardians being on the list i have 40 of them and when supporting aspect squads they are brilliant as they absorb some of the fire and ussually add just enough wounds to tip combats in my favour admittedly 1 unit of ten is not that usefull on its own but theyre cheap enough to get loads


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

Disagree with the servo skull (familiar). For an inquisitor its extra initiative plus free wounds.


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

A few come to mind...

Pariahs. Not Necron, very slow, expensive point cost. Decent as a retinue, but only if the Lord never portals anywhere. 

Chaos Possessed. Expensive point cost, no ranged shooting, random abilities, weak attacks. Lovely if you get Fleet, but not at the price you pay. 

Chaos Dreadnoughts. Dangerous to use, no real benefit over other vehicles. 

Eldar Farseers without Jetbikes. No point whatsoever. 

Demon Princes without wings. Way to slow, no shooting. 

Warpspiders. High point cost, dangerous movements, short range.

Grots. Given how Orcs work, I don't see the point of these guys anymore. 

Tau Ethereal. Weak stats, weak abilities, unjustifiable spend compared to the Suit wearing commanders. 

Spore Mines (FA Choice). I'm paying for a squad that has the die to be affective... hmm...

Broodlord. Doesn't provide synapse, removes the movement bonus from his retinue, isn't a MC and can't be altered very affectively. 

That's all for the moment.


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

> Surprised no one mentioned CSM Possessed. These guys are almost twice as much as a regular CSM with no shooting and a random ability decided after deployment. Anytime I've used them, they get shot to crap before contact. They do look cool, but not effective.


Agree completely with this. Any unit where I don't know what it will do or how i will use it is on my shit list.



> Eldar Farseers without Jetbikes. No point whatsoever


.....



> Demon Princes without wings. Way to slow, no shooting.


Still brutally effective, and less points than they used to be.



> Tau Ethereal. Weak stats, weak abilities, unjustifiable spend compared to the Suit wearing commanders.


Agree with a lot of this to be honest.


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

erm space marine verterans,Techmarine, landspeeders (any other than tornadoes), alot of sisters of battle but the inqusitor side (repentas, penatin engines ....), possessed, daemons, ethreal, vespid, skyray, biovor, gargoels (nids with wings), Mandrakes, Grotesques, Hellions, Scourges, Krootox, Pathfinders, Sniper Drone Team, Flayed Ones, Pariah IMO

ow and gaurd in general lol hehe 

martin


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## angels of fire (Dec 4, 2007)

I think that a vindicare assasain is good but too expensive compared the damage output.


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## Nightbringer416 (Feb 16, 2008)

i cant pinpoint something as horrible or a bad unit, its hard to say. I can say things that there are things i don't agree with like:
-gun drones BS2 again "GUN" drone as in shoot.
-pariahs hmmm i have a tough time understanding them as part of a well balanced necron army, they would be worth more IMO if they cost less.
grots- not worth it , same cost as an IG conscript but a conscript is better. thats not saying much.
-orbital bombarbemt also too costly for a chance to hit.


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

Pandawithissues... said:


> .....


Perhaps I should clarify, if you aren't mounting a Farseer on a JetBike, there is absolutely no reason to take one over Eldrad. Buy Eldrad, and you get more of everything for less points. So I just question anyone who pays the points for one over him unless in a jetbike.


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## foulacy (Nov 24, 2007)

Could'nt agree more with the people mentioning tau units like ethereal, vespids, krootox e.t,c

I dont evan think kroot are worth it, id rather field a full on tau army and shoot shoot shoot. Thats just my style of play though if i used tau.


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

foulacy said:


> Could'nt agree more with the people mentioning tau units like ethereal, vespids, krootox e.t,c
> 
> I dont evan think kroot are worth it, id rather field a full on tau army and shoot shoot shoot. Thats just my style of play though if i used tau.


there really isnt much of any reason to get any Kroot
mainly b/c they have mediocre close combat at best
obviously better than normal Tau
plus, u need a lot of them to even have them being effective
ordinance will destroy them
only good in forest

i dont know much about Vespids
but still, its better to just have pure Tau than mixing in Vespids and Kroot i think
that is why they are very useless


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## GhostBear (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm still refining my army. My most worthless unit changes battle to battle. In one battle it was my Fire Prism not hitting anything. In another it was my Pathfinders who died without firing a shot. In yet another it was my Fire Dragons who had no vehicles to shoot.

Usually my units prove worthless when I use them poorly. Sometimes they're useless through the luck of the draw, being targeted for death first by my opponent.

Overall, I thnk Storm Guardians are probably my most worthless unit because I find it hard to use them effectively. They usually end up serving only by dying instead of another unit.


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## Morgal (Sep 26, 2007)

Steel Rain said:


> I'm going to disagree on the Ogryns. They may be expensive to some people, but to me they are a good bargain for a "fire brigade" counter-attack unit. A squad of 3 only costs 75 points, 85 with a bonehead. That's 9 wounds, plus 6 attacks at s6. You don't get many upgrades, but then again you don't really need them. Not too bad. C'mon it's guardsmen after all.


Well there not the MOST worthless as many advisors in the codex, tech priests ext are far more useless i just mention ogryn because they are inteded to make a counter charge unit and give the IG some mellee back bone.

How ever for the 85 points you just spend on 3 ogryn who are vulnerable to instant death you could have gooten 20 conscripts, 20 conscripts have more attacks, more wounds and more shooty. there a just better things for 85 points. 2 sentinels?, a las plas squad.


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

Revelations said:


> Perhaps I should clarify, if you aren't mounting a Farseer on a JetBike, there is absolutely no reason to take one over Eldrad. Buy Eldrad, and you get more of everything for less points. So I just question anyone who pays the points for one over him unless in a jetbike.


i have to disagree 100 percent here im afred, eldrad is 210 odd points even the farseer on bike isnt 140, and the one i use on foot isnt even 90 points, farseers are always worth it imo but oviously depends on what army they are with


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## Revelations (Mar 17, 2008)

martin4696 said:


> i have to disagree 100 percent here im afred, eldrad is 210 odd points even the farseer on bike isnt 140, and the one i use on foot isnt even 90 points, farseers are always worth it imo but oviously depends on what army they are with


Holy smoke... what is that 90pt Farseer armed with? The last time I checked, a fully equipped Farseer costed more than Eldrad with fewer rules and gear.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Tau kroot are Worthless all they do is die


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## Churlton (Nov 23, 2007)

BA- Brother Captain Tycho as a HQ choice. No power weapon or bonus for 2x cc, and cannot take any either.
Apart from pure fluff I'd take any other choice for a couple of points more.

This one will be shot-down, I'm sure, but...... SM Dreadnaughts .... far too fragile for what they're supposed to be (and cost!). A simple change to Wraithlord-esque stats would be acceptable .. or.. +1 AV to 13 would make a heluva difference. You cannot operate with only one on the field, it goes down too quickly.

Back to BA; why take the Chaplain choice over Lemartes??!!!!! (+JP and Deathmask)

I agree with Repentias (SoB). Too expensive for efficient delivery to their optimum role.

Finally;
Any minimum strength Ork Unit:
eg. 3 Warbikes
5 burnas/tankbustas/lootas
1 Killa kan
etc, etc, etc.

Apart from 1 Dethkopta ... that does have it's uses for objective/quarters grabbing (alaland speeders)


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## GhostBear (Feb 17, 2008)

Revelations said:


> Holy smoke... what is that 90pt Farseer armed with? The last time I checked, a fully equipped Farseer costed more than Eldrad with fewer rules and gear.


Actually a fully equipped Farseer is 198 points and still lacks one power and the special rules and equipment Eldrad gets. A 90 point Farseer can still be effective, depending on your army and can give you a bunch of extra points to run another squad or upgrade an existing one.


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

Revelations said:


> Holy smoke... what is that 90pt Farseer armed with? The last time I checked, a fully equipped Farseer costed more than Eldrad with fewer rules and gear.


erm farseer(55), warding(15), doom(25) is the usual farseer i use = 95 or 98 (with spear)

OR

farseer(55), bike(30), spear(3), doom(25), warding(15) = 128 points

why do you or i need any more maybe stones and another power would be nice eg spirit stones and eldritch storm (40) so that would be 135/ 138 or 168 

both ALOT cheaper than eldrad and worth every penny, and why do you need/ want a fully equiped farseer you are going to waste 3 powers a turn which is 60+ points and witnessing is also pointless


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## DrakeBluedragon (Feb 14, 2008)

Why are vespid there? They eat SM alive with their guns, not too mention they r probably the 2nd fastest "infantry" squad on foot (1st being warp spiders), they may be fairly fragile, but if you use them properly, normaly there isn`t anything left to shoot back at them. 
And SM scouts can have sniper rifles, so they are actually quite annoying, especially with scout special rule.
Anyway I think the worst squads are
1: Gun drone squadrons, fairly expensive, no real firepower
2: Etheral (unless with bodyguard, but even then...)
3: Dark Reapers, they are expensive, not many, plus there gun is a joke compared to any other eldar heavy support (not too mention a firewarrior squad has the same firepower, for far less)


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

Morgal said:


> Well there not the MOST worthless as many advisors in the codex, tech priests ext are far more useless i just mention ogryn because they are inteded to make a counter charge unit and give the IG some mellee back bone.
> 
> How ever for the 85 points you just spend on 3 ogryn who are vulnerable to instant death you could have gooten 20 conscripts, 20 conscripts have more attacks, more wounds and more shooty. there a just better things for 85 points. 2 sentinels?, a las plas squad.


to fill up an elite slot? Sentinels won't fill an elite slot, nor will conscripts. The problem with conscripts is that they are only s3. Conscripts won't fill the same role as Ogryns. Ogryns are built for counterattacks, which they do quite well. When you combine them in melee with a command squad built for CC, you can do ok for yourself against most units. Now I'm totally aware that if the enemy gets into melee with guard I've done something wrong. That's not the point. I would much rather have my safety net be Ogryns.


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## Tvayumat (Jan 28, 2008)

Green Knight said:


> Tau kroot are Worthless all they do is die


I've had a single squad of Kroot carnivores with shaper and kroot hounds break the back of an ork assault so badly that my fire warriors mopped up with no further casualties, for CC in covered positions kroot are horrifying. I would however argue that Krootox are essentially pointless, at least I've never seen a need to field one.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

i think that the worth of each unit depends on the situation they are in as i play many different armies and have seen different tactics to incorporate many of the worthless units effectively
sm scouts yes they are not as good in game terms as marines but they are good at taking important parts of the battlefield early and if then supported can usually hold any cover/ objective long enough to swing a game
bare minimum ork squads: a freind of usually has 4/5 of these in his horde army and so many times that i have said these words "bugger i'd forgotten about them" which is easy to do when you have a massive horde of green charging you and they always seem to be on an objective at the end of the game unless i kill them instead of the big green horde that then smashes my army to bits
yes there are units that i just dont use as they don't fit with the tactics of the army i am using or i don't like the models but someone will use them normally at my expense


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## Pariah Mk.231 (Mar 2, 2008)

Coffeemug said:


> pariah





foulacy said:


> For me its definately Pariahs.





Revelations said:


> Pariahs.





martin4696 said:


> Pariah





Nightbringer416 said:


> pariahs


Why does everyone hate me?! 



martin4696 said:


> Hellions, Scourges ... Pathfinders


I have to disagree with you. 
Hellions are excellent at harrassing lone units, or quickly getting to an assault that could use their help, and being Wyches they have combat drugs, which gives them an added boost. However, it is completely useless to shoot with them, because then you're denying them the ability to charge *AND* get their +1S in combat.
Scourges are more then worth their points when you use them in a pure role, instead of mixing weapons. A unit of 5 with splinter cannons pumps out the equivalent firepower of 8 termintors, with the ability to always keep in range and out of assaults. I'm not going to praise their ability with dark lances though, because if they're sitting still to use them than they're being wasted. Just use the lances of your raiders and ravagers.
I never use my rangers without upgrading them to Pathfinders. EVER. They've won me so many games that they're the one unit I must always take. Terrain doesn't slow them down, they have a decent chance of popping terminators with their rifles, are a pain to remove from cover without flamers and can swap over to their shurikan pistols to double their fire output if anyone gets too close and you don't trust the rifles to do the trick.

You can always find a way to use any unit effectively, but I do have to agree that Possessed are just crap, and Burner Boys are going to get blown to hell long before they get close enough to use them unless you load them in a battlewagon (no trukk option).
Grots have lost what made them viable (their "Helpful" rules), now they're just a cheap way to fill up points and claim objectives if people ignore them.
Equipping an Inquisitor costs *FAR* too much for what he does. I've found that the only really effective get-up for an Inquisitor includes him sitting back with a sage or two and several gun servitors while lugging around a psy-cannon.
Deff Dreads: Why take one when you can do whatever he was going to do better with 3 Kans? ... unless of course you have a Big Mek in the army, then the Deff doesn't take up one of your already crowded Heavy choices.


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## casanova (Nov 1, 2007)

warhound titan absoutly brillo but too costly also a bit of a waste in apocalypse if it gets creamed bya guy with A vortex grenade (which i have seen done)


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## stormshroud (Apr 27, 2007)

I'm am going to disagree with some picks in here and echo the comments of many posters.

First off as many have said most units have there uses even if they do not come to the fore in every game. I have had times where the MVP from one match became a lame duck in the next, my Infernus Shell Griffon vs De then against fearless MEQs springs to mind.

Secondly to the disagreements...

Dark Reapers - My dark reapers form a great tag team with my farseer on foot. And will usually decimate the SM squad they have drawn a bead on.

Grots - a 10 strong unit of grots is a game winner when claiming objectives/quarters. Your opponent will not want to waste shooting at them (especially if you can get them hidden so he has to reposition) over the horde of boyz and clunking mechanical death advancing on him.

Ogryns - a great counter assault unit and great for drawing fire I regularly run a unit of 5 in a Chimera as part of my mechanised guard and they do a sterling job. great for providing support to Rough Riders or engaged guard units.


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## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

Pariah Mk.231 said:


> I have to disagree with you.
> Hellions are excellent at harrassing lone units, or quickly getting to an assault that could use their help, and being Wyches they have combat drugs, which gives them an added boost. However, it is completely useless to shoot with them, because then you're denying them the ability to charge *AND* get their +1S in combat.


erm isnt that what jetbikes are for?? but have better options and are faster and have a better chance of getting there??? for the same FOC.




> Scourges are more then worth their points when you use them in a pure role, instead of mixing weapons. A unit of 5 with splinter cannons pumps out the equivalent firepower of 8 termintors, with the ability to always keep in range and out of assaults. I'm not going to praise their ability with dark lances though, because if they're sitting still to use them than they're being wasted. Just use the lances of your raiders and ravagers.


for a heavy support choice what are they doing there i would never take them over a disinterator ravanger, maybe if they were fast attack i maybe tempted but no way at a heavy slot.




> I never use my rangers without upgrading them to Pathfinders. EVER. They've won me so many games that they're the one unit I must always take. Terrain doesn't slow them down, they have a decent chance of popping terminators with their rifles, are a pain to remove from cover without flamers and can swap over to their shurikan pistols to double their fire output if anyone gets too close and you don't trust the rifles to do the trick.


erm i actualy ment tau pathfinders but i didnt specify in my post and agree with all your comments on the eldar ones as i have 2 units of 6 and they woop ass lol


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## Nightbringer416 (Feb 16, 2008)

DrakeBluedragon said:


> Why are vespid there? They eat SM alive with their guns, not too mention they r probably the 2nd fastest "infantry" squad on foot (1st being warp spiders),


disagree with you necron troops are the fastest infantry in the game. monolith 18" move plus 2" for disembark plus 6" for movement. veil of darkness = 20 units anywhere on the map.:grin:

I still think the tau gun drone is the worst unit, if there is such thing as a bad unit.


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## Janus Blackheart (Jan 24, 2008)

I Don't have the new Codex but if orks still have Commandos I never saw any value in them.(but I do love the models). I also dont like Kroot and never field them but I know lots of people who would dissagree. But the worst for the points might be DE scourges


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## CaptainBailean (Feb 20, 2008)

LAND SPEEDER! they die too quick to get anything accomplished and thier lack of fire power is astonishing, granted that the two more powerful land speeders are better, but still none of them are worth the points


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## pyroanarchist (Feb 29, 2008)

Any squad can be used to an advantage in the right situation.

Having said that, CSM Possessed suck. If you could roll their abilities before set up, maybe... but ATM they suck. I personally don't like chaos spawn either. They can be used as a nice distraction, but being mindless and just assaulting they are usually destroyed. Spawn are great if they are created by the Gift of Chaos Sorceror ability, so no confusion there. Taken as a squad, I don't like them though.


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## FarseerNo3 (Mar 7, 2008)

WTF, land speeders die to quick,

well if you field them against MEQ's of course,

but horde army's and they cut them down


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## Casmiricus (Mar 6, 2008)

CaptainBailean said:


> LAND SPEEDER! they die too quick to get anything accomplished and thier lack of fire power is astonishing, granted that the two more powerful land speeders are better, but still none of them are worth the points


You, sir, have never seen what three Tornadoes do to A brood of 'nid Warriors, 'Stealers, gargoyles... Really, anything besides 'Fexes or Tyrants.

I even had one take out a Land Raider with the Rending.

Land Speeders are by far the most versatile and powerful fast attack choice for the SM.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I've tried to stay my hand, because I don't believe there is a single bad unit in the game-- I have to admit, this thread has taken off nicely, though! 

Land Speeders are worth their weight in gold. For 65 points, you get a flying multi-melta which has absolutely no trouble zipping around and dealing with things of the basilisk persuasion, which can be a serious threat to your Space Marines on foot. Even with the general assault cannon fetish most people seem to have, I rarely (or, I should say never) bring a Tornado-- I've found that placing my trust in a single speeder with a multi-melta is quite sufficient. If nothing else, it's inexpensive as Marine units go and shooting it down oftentimes means that firepower which is better used against my squads isn't headed their way.


Now, grots. I figured a lot of people would say grots aren't worthwhile. In pretty much all scenarios, you have to hold on to some point of the table. The Orks can make sure the enemy doesn't have the strength left to do that without any trouble, but they're not likely to be in any position to hold anything themselves, either. Grots, on the other hand, are going to get ignored by an opponent, because they're just that bad. Come turn six, however, they're the only scoring unit left on the table, so the Ork player wins. It's that simple.

What else have I seen consistently in here... Gun Drones. Gun drones are actually good if you have a sort of card gamer playing style. Gun drones in conjunction with markerlights can be a serious speedbump to an enemy assault force. For example, you can use markerlights to lower a target's leadership for pinning and/or morale checks for that shooting phase. So have pathfinders light up a unit, lower their leadership by four or five, and then shoot them with the gun drones' carbines. You only have to cause one casualty to stop a unit dead in its tracks like that. Admittedly, a lot of stuff these days is fearless, but just as much isn't. It also works well at neutralizing heavy weapons teams-- again, you don't have to kill 'em, you just have to shut the guns off, and pinning them works quite well.


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## Syko515 (Jan 22, 2008)

Chaos Spawn and Chaos Dreadnoughts come to mind. anything that is likely to blow up my own army is definatly gotta go. and for its point cost i can field a 3 man terminator squad who DOESN"T blow up my Obliterators.....i disagree on the possessed but only from the stand point of the 3+/5+ saves...i like the idea of giving them a 4+ invulnrable save ..however i must admit that they do look good on paper...not on the field of battle...


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## Pariah Mk.231 (Mar 2, 2008)

martin4696 said:


> erm i actualy ment tau pathfinders but i didnt specify in my post and agree with all your comments on the eldar ones as i have 2 units of 6 and they woop ass lol



In that case I am in agreement with you.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Hm...I'm gonna go with the Gun Drone squad. Or the Scouts. Too expensive, suck, die too fast, etc.

-Dirge


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## Korill (Mar 21, 2008)

The Ethereal and Aun'va

That many points for something thats just going to make your entire army break. Aun'vas even worse, over four times the points and doesn't even give Independent Character protection.


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## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

Techmarine in the Dark Angel Codex. To expensive.. cant repair if it can shoot...Cant shoot if it must repair,,,,repair on iut sucks anyway....not IC anymore....Scrap HIM!!!


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## Jeridian (Jan 4, 2007)

I'm sorry but Sisters Repentia win any 'Worthless' topic everytime.

Every other example I've seen in this thread may not be cost efficient, may have a very small area of expertise- but they still are able to put out some damage, and do well in some situations.

Kroot for example, their Infiltrate ability is golden if it means enemy Infiltrators are prevented from deploying close to the Tau army. Then remember they are carrying bolters for 7pts.
A 10xkroot unit can sit in a forest with 4+ cover, further than 6" in. It can then just harass with bolter fire and if the enemy tries to shoot them it takes a lot more firepower to do so than 70pts warrants- if they try to assault them, the Kroot get 20 Str 4 attacks first- again for 70pts the cost to assaulting troops isn't worth it.


But Repentia, urgh, what is their role?

For those that don't know, they're around 20pts each, T 3 4+ armour with 1 Str 6 power fist attack.
They must get into close combat, yet cannot be transported.
So a T3 4+ save unit must walk towards the enemy, it's the easiest VP's a Heavy Bolter can ever make.

So you want to use cover like a tactical genius to try to protect them from enemy guns...except you can't, Holy Rage means they run towards the enemy as fast as possible, by the shortest route- suicide.

Let's assume somehow you've managed to get into close combat, despite having to walk, despite having to run headlong into bullets, despite being a bunch of T3 4+ models that are around 20pts each.

The enemy get's to go first as you have eviscerators (power fists), so even more very expensive weak troops die having done nothing.

You finally get to swing, you'll get 1 (2 if your charge) Str 6 power fist attacks- probably around 3-6attacks from survivors. 2-3 hit. 1-2 wounds. Wow.

To add insult to injury, they do not add Faith Points to the Sisters army- the equivalent of Pariah's not adding the the Necron Phase Out, i.e. a big deal.

Every other example I've seen as redeeming qualities- Vespid are fast with AP 3 guns. Pariahs are T5 3+ with Gauss blasters and power weapons. Even Talos has a gun and is an MC. These examples may be very poor units, but they shine in comparison to Repentia.

I'd love to hear of anything worse than Repentia- it would need a very convincing argument.


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Possibly grots, but even 6 grots (equiv. points) might be able to take down a repentia, so I think we may have a winner.


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## Gore Hunter (Nov 5, 2007)

Sanctioned Psykers Ld7 Ws2 Bs2 one Psychic power
with that leadership he dies to quick


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## Bhelliom (Apr 12, 2008)

Revelations said:


> A few come to mind...
> 
> Spore Mines (FA Choice). I'm paying for a squad that has the die to be affective... hmm...
> 
> ...


I agree with the spore mine FA choice. 

Broodlord, it does provide synapse, it has inhuman strength which makes up for the fact it's not MC and it can get bio-morphs that are very effective. Think of a Tyrant as a sledgehammer, and the Broodlord as the scapel...pick your targets and the broodlord is awesome!

I would also go with the Biovore as one of the not so effective units in the 40k world.

After reading Jeridians arguement for Repentia I will support that as the most worthless unit in 40k!!


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## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

Yeah I would have to agree on the Repentia... my Grey Knights have raped them with a single round of shooting most any time I see them and like he said the few that do make it to combat are usually torn to shreds before they can do anything.

Other units I would throw on the list behind Repentia would be

Tau Ethereals... Why for the love of god would you ever take something so weak and which has such negative draw backs as an HQ option???? Every other HQ in this game is a God (literally) or a god killer in some fashion.. Ethereals have nothing... They can join a fire warrior squad and can help them while they make their essentially last stand because everything in the game can woop them in CC.

Pariahs.. its already been said before.. you can only have one unit of them and they dont count as Necrons. For the most part they are to weak to stand on their own long even with T5 and a 3+ as they normally come under intense fire because they dont come back. They just dont make sense in a Necron army.

Spore Mines... things which you loose to make usefull.... I can understand if they were like without number or something but ????

Orbital Strikes... You target a piece of terrain ??? Ya ok. If its big enough to be usefull people usually cry foul but normally there is no one piece of terrain which is decent enough of a target to be used. Its good if you have an objective that you want to deny your enemy but thats it. Its to inaccurate to ever count on. Would rather waste points on 6 - 8 Storm Troopers than any of the OS options. At least they count as a scoring unit.


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## LJT_123 (Dec 26, 2007)

Grots , atm they are pretty much worthless. . .


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## Alexander_67 (May 5, 2007)

Repentia = Suck

Everyone knows it. Everyone accepts it. In all the times i've fielded them I) They have never, ever, ever, survived a battle to date. II) They have never, ever, ever, made their points back in a battle to date. 

But dispite all this i'll keep fielding them. I like them. They give my army character. And enemies like shooting them up loads.


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## electriceye83 (Feb 16, 2008)

But there in they have a value.

People shoot them cause they know they MIGHT do some damage.

Its a turn or two of shooting at them that saves something else fragile.

I just think its down to some units are really strong, if used well, and some are terribly bad if used poorly.

Cause even the big bad kroot hidden in a forest fall short if you land a pie plate on them, then in one shot they are all gone.

Its all just picking your spots.

But for me, gotta be bolter armed scouts, no point what so ever, take close combat weapons, sneak up on weaker stuff, take rifles, shoot it from miles away, but why take a standard weapon.

Ok, so the models look cool, but thats just me.

And as for speeders, any kind of high speed death round the back of your army is worth it, tempests being S6 can take a lot of tanks out, can take out leman russ or basiliscs, and a template weapon on top, meltas/flamers/assault cannons/heavy bolters for everything else.


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## jakkie (Dec 21, 2007)

atm its my wraith - 41 points and it hasnt even got into combat yet.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

Gore Hunter said:


> Sanctioned Psykers Ld7 Ws2 Bs2 one Psychic power
> with that leadership he dies to quick


I do not agree, they give Hqs some thing to worry about when they have a force weapon and the are not ind


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## vindur (Apr 1, 2008)

dark eldar mandrakes or possibly DL scourges 
mandrakes are almost double the cost of a warrior but with even less chance to kill things

Dl scourges have jump packs which they will almost never use and cost double the points of a warrior with no additional protection also for almost the same points as a min mexed squad i can take 2 squads of 10 warriors with 2 DLs each. Much more survivable and count as compulsary troops


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

vindur said:


> dark eldar mandrakes or possibly DL scourges
> mandrakes are almost double the cost of a warrior but with even less chance to kill


I disagree mandrakes cost more points because of there abilitys ie hiden set up, and cover saves. One of my games they ripped apart a flank of IG.


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## vindur (Apr 1, 2008)

In 9 years of play dark eldar ive never had them make their points back.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

well I have only started playing and they have ripped apart a flank of IG, i surpose it is how you play with them


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## vindur (Apr 1, 2008)

could be targets or just the dice gods find them offensive. 
remember tho one good instance doesn't mean a unit is good
I've seen fire warriors beat a blood thirster in combat, it doesn't mean they are good in CC


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## traceman923 (Apr 14, 2008)

SM Scouts or nid rippers


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

fair anuf vindur


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## Sword Slasher (Mar 9, 2008)

traceman923 said:


> nid rippers


I aggree, sure they have 3 wounds, but they end up as shuriken fodder in my eyes. Worthless!


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

they are good to hold up units


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

How are scouts useless, with sniper rifles they are the best way to drop a Ctan.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

I agree that possessed are maybe 4 points too expensive for when you have to roll the special ability(Each one costs two chosen...fail?) But for what you pay for, you do get one of the best general combat squads chaos could have outside of terminators.
I mean Str 5 on anything in the chaos army can only be acheived by dragging Fabulous Bile with you, and he is 1:Not worth the points. And 2:Takes up an hq slot that I could have had a sorceror in.

Also, if the squad gets rending, they pretty much can go where they please. Arm them with tzeentch, and they save 50% of the time regaurdless of what hits them. Arm them with Khorne, and you're putting out a bare minimum possible of 15 power weapon/rending attacks that wound meqs on a 3+

Although yeah, they're a wasteful bucket of points if they get scout. For their points I could easily have gotten infiltrating chosen. And their's no way to customize the unit. But all-in-all they aren't as bad as chaos spawn. At least we can decide where the damn things run. 

My most favoured unit would have to be either chosen(On missions that allow the infiltrate) or raptors. I've yet to play a game to date where a minimum squad of raptors, armed with two meltas and the mark of glory, has failed to make back it's points. The chosen occasionally don't, but people pour so much fire into them that they're always worth it.


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## godofwar (Mar 23, 2008)

Grey Knights totally a waste of time and money.


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## rVctn_Khaiyn (Dec 1, 2007)

I've had a crack at Tau, Guard and Eldar, but out of everything I've fielded, the Ethereal was the most disappointing. Tau was my first army and I didn't really consider the choice too well. He didn't contribute much at all, and I found myself working too hard to protect him, rather than focusing on weaknesses in my opponent's army. 

I never made that mistake again. Even fluff-wise, I don't really think that the Ethereal is great on the battlefield (but that's entirely a personal opinion :biggrin: ).

So, unless they've buffed him in the new codex, Ethereal takes my vote.


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## marcch (Apr 1, 2008)

As a long time Tau player I must agree that Tau gun drones are rather low on the totem pole, but not useless. I use them mostly to force target priority tests, and buggering up my opponent's assault plans. If they die keeping a high value unit alive they've done their job. As for the others mentioned... I believe a unit's usefullness depends on it's application in a particular game. This waxes and wanes with your army's fortunes.

As for the Tau Etheral... in the new codex he is good for making units fearless. Use him/her with a honour guard (raised BS and fearless) to make a fairly sturdy firebase core unit. I use this type of unit to cover a nearby objective with firepower. Some players will avoid fearless units because they may tie up their assault units for longer than expected.


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## Norkroff (Apr 9, 2008)

nothing is useless, it just depends on how you go about using them.


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## Green Knight (Feb 25, 2008)

godofwar said:


> Grey Knights totally a waste of time and money.


You are kinding me they are fucking ace. They are a lot of money because there models are so ace and you do not need alot to make a army


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## heliosmj12 (Mar 30, 2008)

The GK are ridiculously expensive, but they are extremely powerful with the fact that they have Storm Bolters and power weapons, and sometimes may have incinerators and psycannons.


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## TAU4298 (Apr 20, 2008)

my most useless unit would have to be my land speeders they get shot down to often


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## TheUnmarked (May 19, 2008)

I must disagree with landspeeders being listed as useless, or SM bikes for that matter, they are brilliant for out flanking an enemy force that has your tac squads, preds, assault marines or landraider (or anything perceived as more dangerous) bearing down upon them from the front. my landspeeder squad of 1 typhoon and 1 tornado managed to remove 350 points of tau in just 2 turnss and have always been effective, just give your enemy something else to shoot which can take it. plus 3 typhoons can quickly smash up infantry formations from range and close in to finish them with heavy bolter fire
Like others have said its all in how you use them, if it's useless to you your probably not using it right or getting really awful rolls..


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

for me it defenetly has to be furies

i hate them. i understand they might be alright compared to units from other armies, but when compared to the other daemon , fast - attack entries they are a waste of points

for example : for a 15 point fury you get some ok stats , 2 attacks is good and jump infantry

for a 15 point khorne flesh hound you get better stats , furious charge , blessing of the blood good, and the option of fury of khorne and karnak

also screamers are better when against a vechicle heavy army and seekers are just far better


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## Triumph Of Man (Dec 27, 2007)

It's a real shame, Furies used to be one of the most underrated daemons in 40k. Now they're just sad, so much to the point where their own fluff starts mocking them.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

lol i agree i think theres no point in even having them because :

1. fluff sucks

2. waste of points

3. there are alot better units out there that are the same price

they were only tolerated in both systems because chaos space marines and hordes of chaos needed something that could fly and take out warmachines etc


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## vorbis (Nov 20, 2007)

tech marine.... just why would u ever use him


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## shas'o7 (May 17, 2008)

Krootox

They slow you down, stop you from infiltrating, and can't deal with anything you wouldn't just kill with a Crisis Team.


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## DarknessDawns (Oct 21, 2007)

i dont know why everyone is agianst parihas, they all have warsythes
squad of uber character killers, and each get 2d6 pen for tanks "drool"


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

Ethereals, they seem like too much of a liability to me. I don't know anybody who uses them, do you?


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## shas'o7 (May 17, 2008)

Siege said:


> Ethereals, they seem like too much of a liability to me. I don't know anybody who uses them, do you?


In large games, you can use them as Kamikazes to get the benefits. They are also very cheap HQ units.


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## godofwar (Mar 23, 2008)

godofwar said:


> Grey Knights totally a waste of time and money.





Green Knight said:


> You are kinding me they are fucking ace. They are a lot of money because there models are so ace and you do not need alot to make a army





heliosmj12 said:


> The GK are ridiculously expensive, but they are extremely powerful with the fact that they have Storm Bolters and power weapons, and sometimes may have incinerators and psycannons.


GK are great at shooting until they are out shot, GK are great at CC until they are out CC. My point being that they are great to a point but they never have the numbers to sustain a worth while battle. But thats my opinion.

Other useless units CSM pocessed to random you can't have any plan involving them until you roll to see what pile of kak you get for there ability. 

CSM Dreads also to random, Repentia are just eye candy lasgun fodder and Inquisitor are just lasgun fodder.

I disagree with anyone who says SM bikes are useless especially if they are CSM with MoK because the turbo boost rule you can be in combat by turn 2 and hacking the enemy apart.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

kroot ox, like someone else said there slow, stop infiltration and who cares about that weapon they carry? ( forgot the name ) a crisis team or a few seekers could do a better job.


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

shas'o7 said:


> In large games, you can use them as Kamikazes to get the benefits. They are also very cheap HQ units.


To be honest I must not have read the codex properly, I just saw the 'if an Ethereal is killed all Tau units must make a morale check'. I never realised they get the prefered enemy rule for the remainder of the game.


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## col44mag (Mar 30, 2008)

I agree, i have used ogryns numerous times with awesome effects, the trick is to get them locked into close combat, BS sucks, but as close combat warriors they rape, and yeah they dont have as good a saving throw as a marine, but the imperial guard arent the space marines


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

shas'o7 said:


> In large games, you can use them as Kamikazes to get the benefits. They are also very cheap HQ units.


Who said anything about large games? Tau bloody need the help in close combat-- I wouldn't leave home without a naked Ethereal to run screaming across the table into a wave of Space Marines purely to pick up the Preferred Enemy rule in a 2000 point game.


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

It could definitely come in handy but I prefer to avoid close combat at all times, so it's not a tactic I'd employ.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Plan for the best, prepare for the worst. I figure that barring an absurd power build with Tau, you'll end up with a few units in close combat whether you like it or not-- being able to at least put up a fight, in my experience, makes a huge difference. As insane as it sounds, hitting Space Marines on 3's in close combat is a huge equalizer.


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## Caledor (Jan 15, 2008)

I agree with repentia's being at the top of this list, but feel that a very important contender has been left unmentioned.

Enter the Land Speeder Tempest.

First, you pay how many points for a extra point of armour, you then get given a single-shot weapon that fires at 48". Next, they chuck on an assault cannon which fires at 24". Finally, to add insult to injury, they say that it is so tough and able it can function incredably happily with a max squad size of one. I'd rank the Tempest as a contender, even if some other units claim the top (bottom?) prize.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

yeh but still , ethreals and land speeders do have there purposes unlike furies, common there so crapy for 15 points


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## Siege (Jan 18, 2008)

Yeah I see where your coming from The Son of Horus. I usually use my Kroot for close combat if I have to, but even so I'd prefer to keep them in some trees and shoot. I actually have an Ethereal somewhere, I might put some paint on him and give him a run in my next game.


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## si_uk_lon_ok (May 25, 2008)

I have never ever got my imperial guard mortar squad to recoup their 80pts.

I'm always very very torn on Ogryns. I've found them useful for holding objectives, but for guard you can get so much more for the points.


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

Dark Eldar in general. Nobody plays them! If you do then I don't mean any offense it's just that I've never seen them on the tabletop as they are too easily gunned down by bolter fire and almost everyone plays marines or chaos.


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

would have to be abbadon - he sure does wipe stuff out but u generally only get to wipe out 1 unit then its footslogging towards the rapidly retreating rapid firing muppets closest to you. i have never made my points back with him qas ppl just do not want to engage him - and rightly so


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## shas'o7 (May 17, 2008)

The Son of Horus said:


> Who said anything about large games? Tau bloody need the help in close combat-- I wouldn't leave home without a naked Ethereal to run screaming across the table into a wave of Space Marines purely to pick up the Preferred Enemy rule in a 2000 point game.


I would still only do it in large games, as it robs you of an HQ unit early, and the Tau stuff can get expensive. It would depend on who I was facing.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

Repentia should be at the top of any list of this type. Other "useless" units tend to actually be able to do something but repentia can be expected to lose in CC to nearly any unit in 40k, including a squad of IG, even if they do get into CC. I've never used these but I did have them used against my Tau. They charged a unit of kroot in a wood, and were eaten.

The ecclesiarchy can claim to be represented by some very poor units indeed. IG priests are hilariously bad, especially due to the advisors rule forcing you to put them into all your command units before you can put one somewhere useful like an ogryn squad. In a WH list you have to take a sucky priest to get access to penitent engines, repentia and arco flagellants - all of which suck.


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## Ender (May 11, 2008)

I skipped several (like 8) pages so I dont know if it was said. Ive only played with/against SM Tau IG and Nids so this is based off that.

Imperial Psykers . . . give me a situation where a psyker might be effective and 9/10 the psyker isnt.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

ripper swarms and nurglings.

i am not a fan of swarms or bases but theese two defenetly suck. ripper swarms are only half decent if you spent too many points on biomorphs but at the end of the day there still a waste

nurglings are very poor, as they dont even have FNP like other nurgle units. they only become at the very least useful when epidemius` tally is around 15-20 as they gain noxious touch and ignore armour saves


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## general (Feb 1, 2008)

converted dreadnought with 2 ccw. Hasn't caused one death in five games. Gets blow up! But I keep fielding it as I like the model!


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## EvgO (Dec 23, 2007)

I second to people who have already mentioned the Chaos Spawn.
Of the whole chaos army list it's the most totally worthless.

You pay 40 points for something that charges to the closest enemy, be it tank or command squad, that has no save and is slow & purposeful. 
C'mon..

Due to the fact, that I've purchased the armyset I have 2 spawns and a unit of possesed (2nd worst chaos entry), however..

That's when people turn to fluff :mrgreen:


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

i wouldn`t say possessed are useless. with an armour save ( i think ) alongside an invulnerable save they arnt bad , then theres the extra ability they have, wether it be FNP or rending with 2 - 3 attacks


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