# SoM: lizardmen or bretonnians?



## LiamDawson27 (Apr 25, 2010)

I have recently started fantasy, and with the new storm of magic expansion, I need to pick which army I'd like to build up for it. I know I'm going to have a dark pact with TK (would restless dead apply to all units?) but I don't know whether or not to do Lizardmen or Bretonnians. Which of the two would you guys recommend and what units would I want for them?
Thanks,
-Liam.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

1. whats restless dead? (if its one of the tomb king rules then it would only apply to the tomb king units.

2. if you want magical supremacy then take lizardmen. they have the best spell casters in the form of slaan, also they have skink priests which are cheep and chearfull wizards for capturing arcance fulcrums. On the side of Bretonians, nothing. cavalry have been nuked as the way that the brets were meant to be used. and the infantry are crap on their own, so the only way to play brets is to lock a unit in place with the men-at-arms they counter charge them with the knights (but this isnt the place for the tactics). the damsels are useful, becasue they are only 5 points more than the skink priests and they can take the lore of life . 

personaly i would go for lizardman


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Lizardmen. Definitely Lizardmen.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I would say Lizardmen. However ditch the TK pact and use the following devious tactic.

First slap 1 slaan on a fulcrum and take NO OTHER CHARACTERS. It also helps to take as few units as possible with many in each unit but perhaps take a Lammassu or 2. Next activate The Great Leveller on as many dice as possible. (For miscast use cupped hands to pass on to other side character) Next because the spell means there has to be equal units the enemy will remove a lot of his army. Then as cream of the crop he has to have the same number of characters as well. Since your only character has just died (the slann) casting the spell then the other side will have NO CHARACTERS EITHER. This means he is likely to have no way of capturing fulcrums unless he has the sense to take magical monsters.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Stephen_Newman said:


> First slap 1 slaan on a fulcrum and take NO OTHER CHARACTERS. It also helps to take as few units as possible with many in each unit but perhaps take a Lammassu or 2. Next activate The Great Leveller on as many dice as possible. (For miscast use cupped hands to pass on to other side character) Next because the spell means there has to be equal units the enemy will remove a lot of his army. Then as cream of the crop he has to have the same number of characters as well. Since your only character has just died (the slann) casting the spell then the other side will have NO CHARACTERS EITHER. This means he is likely to have no way of capturing fulcrums unless he has the sense to take magical monsters.


Nonononono, this is what you do.

Take two Slann, one of which has Lore of Life, the other can have whatever, and two skink priests, one with Cloak of Feathers and the other with Charm of the Jaguar Warrior. Cast Great Leveller with the Slann with whatever, and nuke the opponent's army. Then fly the Priests onto Fulcra and place the Slann on a Fulcrum, and ensure that you have Dominance. Then cast the Lore of Life Dominance Cataclysm spell and bring back the Slann you sacrificed for the Great Leveller. You just nuked the opponents army, and still have your full complement of casters. Awesome.


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## LiamDawson27 (Apr 25, 2010)

Wow, definitely going Lizardmen. So I need a slaan, anything else good for them?


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

lots of saurus


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

temple guard, more saurus, stegadons and more saurus


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

Ratvan, you hit lizardmen right on the head, apart from the compulsory skinks (non skirmishers) and more saurus


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

apart from my friends army which is a southlands skink army *shudders*, I have never faced a skink unit in a lizardmen army. 

I still maintain that saurus warriors are the best NAKED core choice of all the armies, choas warriors only better due to armour save


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## LiamDawson27 (Apr 25, 2010)

Thanks guys 
I haven't managed to get a look at the SoM book yet, so would this work?
Take my lizardmen army, and with a TK pact, take a liche priest with lore of Nehekhara. The restless dead lore attribute allows me to bring back dead units, so theoretically speaking (probably wrong) I should be able to bring back Saurus Warriors. 
Also, are skink skirmishers good?


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

I have no idea about the SoM stuff because it holds no interest to me whatsoever, skink skirmishers are great if used correctly.

Re direct enemy charges
screen temple guard ect
360 degree firing arc


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Skink Skirmishers are good. Cohorts are OK when given Kroxigor for backup, but they're not amazing. Salamanders are stupidly good for their cost. Chameleons and Terradons are good as well. And then of course you have Slann, Temple Guard and Saurus. You'll want a Scar Veteran BSB.

Stegadons, like all 7th edition monsters are sorta meh. Engines of the Gods are pretty much the only way to run Stegadons; the others are shit. And even then you don't really want EOTGs until around 2.5k. Saurus Cavalry are utter shit, Jungle Swarms aren't that great. Skink Priests are really nice in Storm of Magic, I absolutely love the Heavens Equilibrium spell, however in regular games they are little more than Arcane item caddies. Skink Chiefs make for a cheap BSB, but Scar Veterans are better. Razordons are alright, but they are really defensive, and Lizardmen don't really need stronger defenses. If you find you tend to get outflanked, they are one way to stop that, but you'd be better off simply modifying your play. The special characters are OK, for the large part the Lords are horrendously overcosted, but the Heroes are OK. Tetto'eko and Gor'Rok are pretty good, Chakax is nice if a little pricey, and Tiq'taq'to is really not fantastic due to a loophole that prevents him joining units of Terradon Riders.

@ Ratvan, two things- to say that Saurus are the best core choice is somewhat pointless, seeing as how Chaos Warriors aren't naked. Also, Chaos Warriors are still superior since Saurus are WS3, I1. Saurus are second best.

Liam, what is the exact wording on restless undead?


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## LiamDawson27 (Apr 25, 2010)

Coke123: "Lore Attribute - The Restless Dead: Each time a wizard successfully casts an augment spell from the Lore of Nehekhara on a friendly Nehekharan Undead unit, that unit regains 1d3 + 1 wounds worth of models. Units with the Animated Constructs Rule can only ever regain a single lost wound this way, per magic phase."
I'm not sure if it's the exact wording, I dont yet have the army book, found it here
http://z4.invisionfree.com/Khemri/index.php?showtopic=7678&st=0


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## Arli (Mar 4, 2010)

Ratvan said:


> 360 degree firing arc


In 8th edition, the 360 degree firing arc was removed. There is only a front arc now with skrimishers.


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

i'll agree to disagree with you coke123


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

The restless dead does not work on Lzardmen Saurus. Because they are not undead units.

However I believe that a life slann is better because the regrowth spell (without throne of vines) gives D6 wounds worth which is better then restless dead.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

LiamDawson27 said:


> Coke123: "Lore Attribute - The Restless Dead: Each time a wizard successfully casts an augment spell from the Lore of Nehekhara on a friendly Nehekharan Undead unit, that unit regains 1d3 + 1 wounds worth of models. Units with the Animated Constructs Rule can only ever regain a single lost wound this way, per magic phase."
> I'm not sure if it's the exact wording, I dont yet have the army book, found it here
> http://z4.invisionfree.com/Khemri/index.php?showtopic=7678&st=0


Then as Mr. Newman says, Restless Undead doesn't work on Saurus, as Saurus do not have the Nehekharan Undead rule



Stephen_Newman said:


> The restless dead does not work on Lzardmen Saurus. Because they are not undead units.
> 
> However I believe that a life slann is better because the regrowth spell (without throne of vines) gives D6 wounds worth which is better then restless dead.


I dunno, man, Regrowth is a one off, Restless dead is spammable. It's not exactly hard to get three spells off from Lore of Nehekhara, and then they have the buff from the actual spell. D6+2 from regrowth is a one per turn deal, and needs a 15 to cast, and has no additional benefit. Not ton mention, there's those Area of Effect spells from Lore of Nehekhara, meaning you can get a whole bunch of different units resurrecting on a single spell. However, as we've both pointed out, it's a moot point as Saurus aren't Restless Undead. Frankly Flesh to Stone is even better, prevention being the best cure and all... Earthblood is probably better as well.


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## Masked Jackal (Dec 16, 2009)

The new Tomb Kings lore, has some good stuff, but it isn't as good as Life. Although, it can get pretty lulzy, with the AoE's, especially with all the dice there is in SoM. Everyone within 24" gets d3+1 models back!


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

coke123, what does the heavens equilibrium spell do?


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## 777swappamag777 (Jul 15, 2011)

lizard men are definatley the better choice for storm of magic and kroxigars can be deadley i play brets and im good with them but all my gaming buddys have recently updated codexs:suicide:

so the rest of us bret players are saying cmon codex cmon codex and others are saying my men at arms lost to empire militia what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ork Mad (Sep 17, 2010)

i know these quotes are a few days old, sorry, i just wanted to make a point


Stephen_Newman said:


> I would say Lizardmen. However ditch the TK pact and use the following devious tactic.
> 
> First slap 1 slaan on a fulcrum and take NO OTHER CHARACTERS. It also helps to take as few units as possible with many in each unit but perhaps take a Lammassu or 2. Next activate The Great Leveller on as many dice as possible. (For miscast use cupped hands to pass on to other side character) Next because the spell means there has to be equal units the enemy will remove a lot of his army. Then as cream of the crop he has to have the same number of characters as well. Since your only character has just died (the slann) casting the spell then the other side will have NO CHARACTERS EITHER. This means he is likely to have no way of capturing fulcrums unless he has the sense to take magical monsters.


i can promise you that this would not be reliable in the slightest and also nigh on impossible, because (correct me if im wrong) no where in the SoM book does it say you can use more than 6D6 in a casting attempt - requiring you to roll 28, when high magic is acendant (a slann is alevel 4 wizzard right?), which isnt likely - AND this spell is a dominance level so you need to have more archane fulcrums than your opponent which will be hard with as you only have 2 wizzards. Oh and your opponent can uses all his dice to dispell this, so this is highly unlikely to be cast




coke123 said:


> Nonononono, this is what you do.
> 
> Cast Great Leveller with the Slann with whatever, and nuke the opponent's army. Then fly the Priests onto Fulcra and place the Slann on a Fulcrum, and ensure that you have Dominance. Then cast the Lore of Life Dominance Cataclysm spell and bring back the Slann you sacrificed for the Great Leveller. You just nuked the opponents army, and still have your full complement of casters. Awesome.


same as above but slighly better

the best way to cast the great leveler would be to use the power stone (add 2 dice to the amount used in casting) as this would give you a 50/50 chance of sucsess



though i would still choose lizzardmen over bretonians as you can theam your army with the carnosaurs and stegadons from the bound monsters sectionand slans are very good wizzards. However don't rely on the great leaveller to win you the game (though the first suggestion might be successful in the alter of madness scinario as theres only 1 AF)


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## Tanarri (Jun 23, 2011)

Ork Mad said:


> i can promise you that this would not be reliable in the slightest and also nigh on impossible, because (correct me if im wrong) no where in the SoM book does it say you can use more than 6D6 in a casting attempt - requiring you to roll 28, when high magic is acendant (a slann is alevel 4 wizzard right?), which isnt likely - AND this spell is a dominance level so you need to have more archane fulcrums than your opponent which will be hard with as you only have 2 wizzards. Oh and your opponent can uses all his dice to dispell this, so this is highly unlikely to be cast


I am not 100% sure but I think a slaan with focused ruination can use 7d6 to cast a spell


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## Ork Mad (Sep 17, 2010)

cool. still not too likely, but that helps to cast other cataclysm spells especially as they cannot be cast with irresistable force....


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