# IG as allies for CSM



## LQNKY (Feb 11, 2013)

I currently have a CSM list that I feel needs some tarpits and heavy weapons, so I thought IG would be the best (Lost and the Damned and what not).

A few quick questions about troop choices. (Going of 5th. ed codex of course.)

1) Do I need to have a conscript squad to invoke Chenkov's Send in the Next Wave?

2) Do I need to include a Vox-Caster with each squad or is one in the command squad enough?

3) is Pask worth the 50 points with a Leman Russ Demolisher and a Leman Russ Battle Tank (possibly two).


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

LQNKY said:


> I currently have a CSM list that I feel needs some tarpits and heavy weapons, so I thought IG would be the best (Lost and the Damned and what not).
> 
> A few quick questions about troop choices. (Going of 5th. ed codex of course.)
> 
> ...


1. Yes.

2. Yes, you need to include one in each squad if you want to take advantage of the order reroll. I think it isn't worth the points, personally.

3. The general consensus is... not really.

Good luck with your IG allies, though! I'm right there with you.


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

1) Yes, but conscripts aren't really worth the points. For just a couple more points per model you'll get access to special/heavy weapons, plus BS3 instead of BS2. Oh yea, and Chimeras. You're better off just filling out an infantry platoon.

2) Yes. I agree with Mossy Toes on this. You're better off spending the spare points on more dakka. Although I'll sometimes take them on my combined infantry platoons if I have points to spare. 30 infantrymen with 3 hidden, twin-linked lascannons and 3 plasmas? Sure, why not?

3) Probably not. 1" on ordnance doesn't make that great a difference. He can arguably help Vanquishers and Exterminators pay for their points value better, but personally I just skip him and spend his points on Guardsman Fucking Marbo.


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## LQNKY (Feb 11, 2013)

Thanks guys!

this is my hazard at an actual list.

HQ
Command Squad w/ 2x flamers and a lascannon
Ministorum Priest
-----------
Troops
Plantoon Command Squad
2x Infantry Squad w/ melta and missile launcher
Infantry Squad w/ melta and lascannon
Special weapon squad w/ 3x flamers
------------
Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ hunter-killer missile
Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ lascannon


Total it would cost 740 points, so I would probably drop the infantry squad with the lascannon and the special weapons squad (and possibly the LR w/ h-k missile) to bring it down to 600 (440) points if I was playing a smaller game.

Any more suggestions, criticisms, or warnings?


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

Not bad! I play gunline guard (with a sprinkle of mech) so a couple of minor suggestions...

I like the inclusion of a lascannon in the Co Command Squad. Good use of the higher BS. Flamers... not quite as much. I'd recommend skipping the special weapons altogether, but if you must have one, I personally like grenade launchers.

Ministorum priest - who'll you be attaching him to? Whoever he goes with, I'd recommend dropping any heavy weapons in that squad.

Platoon Command Squad gives you access to some miscellaneous and sometimes useful extras, such as sniper rifles. I like to run my PCS's with 4 sniper rifles or 4 grenade launchers. Just a bit of extra firepower for a small points cost, and from time to time it actually makes that PCS useful.

Infantry squads, I like to give them either flamer / grenade launcher and an autocannon. Grenade launcher is a great go-to weapon, better than people usually rate it (though not spectacular). Flamer is awesome for objective grabbing / holding (don't underestimate overwatch). Melta's short range tends to work against it. You might find that you'll rarely get the opportunity to use it in a useful capacity. Autocannon is a happy option, very well-liked among guard players. It'll murder light infantry and chop up transports without too much difficulty, and very cheap as well. Lascannon, not many guard players like, but I personally fine it useful in a gunline.

Leman Russes - thanks to the new ordnance rules, when you fire your battlecannon, you can only fire other weapons as snap-shots. Therefore I recommend removing the HK missile and lascannon. Just go with a barebones LRBT, no sponsons up upgrades at all.

Special weapons squad, I have no issue with. Possibly buy a Chimera for an infantry squad, then mount the special weapon squad in it instead? That'd make them half decent for objective grabbing.


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## LQNKY (Feb 11, 2013)

HQ
Command Squad w/ lascannon
Ministorum Priest
-----------
Troops
Plantoon Command Squad w/ 4x sniper rifles
2x Infantry Squad w/ flamer and autocannon
Infantry Squad w/ flamer and krak grenades (priest)
Special weapon squad w/ 3x flamers
------------
Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Battle Tank


Ok so this would run me 710 points (would drop the priest, infantry squad and special weapons for 550 points). I would be using the infantry for tarpiting and objective holding while the lemans would be laying down the heavy dakka I need.

Any more comments? You guys have been super helpful and I'm thankful for that.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

LQNKY said:


> HQ
> Command Squad w/ lascannon
> Ministorum Priest


Priest is unessecary. Remove him completely.



LQNKY said:


> Troops
> Plantoon Command Squad w/ 4x sniper rifles
> 2x Infantry Squad w/ flamer and autocannon
> Infantry Squad w/ flamer and krak grenades (priest)
> Special weapon squad w/ 3x flamers


Platoon Command Squad should have 4x Flamers, Infantry Squads are pretty good but I much prefer to have either Specials or Heavies. Are you a sit-back-and-shoot unit or close-range unit? Pick one and save points. Krak Grenades are useless on Guardsmen. Special Weapons Squad should be removed and the Flamers used in the Platoon Command.



LQNKY said:


> Heavy Support
> Leman Russ Battle Tank
> Leman Russ Battle Tank


I think they need Heavy Bolter Sponsons, but I guess they're still ok. Can't run two seperately as you're only using one FOC. They have to squadron, which kinda sucks. I think the Executioner is superior, especially for Chaos who lack their own rocks to smash other rocks with.



LQNKY said:


> Any more comments? You guys have been super helpful and I'm thankful for that.


Needs more Vendetta. Apart from that, save points on things like Krak Grenades and the Priest because you want to make your Allies as cheap as possible.

Midnight


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Just a note on voxcasters. When you go to larger games and you blob up your infantry squads you only need one vox in the blob. so if you had three infantry squads with autocannons and blobed them together then all three squads would get the reroll as long as there was a single vox in the blob(and one on the command squad of course.)


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## LQNKY (Feb 11, 2013)

MidnightSun said:


> Platoon Command Squad should have 4x Flamers, Infantry Squads are pretty good but I much prefer to have either Specials or Heavies. Are you a sit-back-and-shoot unit or close-range unit? Pick one and save points. Krak Grenades are useless on Guardsmen. Special Weapons Squad should be removed and the Flamers used in the Platoon Command.


I was thinking of using the Command Squad to sit back and take pot shots or hold objectives, the two Infantry Squads w/ autocannons to tarpit and objective clear, the Infantry Squad w/ priest as dedicated transport hunters (hence krak and priest to help on assaults), and the Special Weapons Squad as mob killers (lots of orks and 'nids in my neck of the woods).



MidnightSun said:


> I think they need Heavy Bolter Sponsons, but I guess they're still ok. Can't run two seperately as you're only using one FOC. They have to squadron, which kinda sucks. I think the Executioner is superior, especially for Chaos who lack their own rocks to smash other rocks with.


I have already have two biker squads that are great for tank busting (power fist and lightning claw on champion means no attacks lost) so I was just looking to plant the tanks and get dakka down range.



MidnightSun said:


> Needs more Vendetta. Apart from that, save points on things like Krak Grenades and the Priest because you want to make your Allies as cheap as possible.


If I was going to bring a flyer I would bring a helldrake, and I'm not to worried about points because I like the idea of a chaos war band with lots of disposable cultists and the elite chaos marines.

Again thanks for the advice and sorry if I come of sounding like a dick but I had a general idea for the list and should have made it clear earlier.

Any more advice is welcome.


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

Vendetta is one of the best flyers in the game, if not THE best, so don't dismiss it right away! MidnightSun is probably right about the krak grenades, though I respectfully disagree on the sniper rifles. They're especially good against Tyranids.

Also, gotta bring back the point about the sponsons on the Leman Russ. To me personally, it's not worth paying the extra points for something that'll only hit on 6's. I'd take those points and use them for a power weapon or something for a Chaos Marine. And in my opinion, Leman Russes look much better without sponsons.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

LQNKY said:


> I was thinking of using the Command Squad to sit back and take pot shots or hold objectives, the two Infantry Squads w/ autocannons to tarpit and objective clear, the Infantry Squad w/ priest as dedicated transport hunters (hence krak and priest to help on assaults), and the Special Weapons Squad as mob killers (lots of orks and 'nids in my neck of the woods).


3 Flamers doesn't scare Orks or Tyranids, who just have to send a couple of Devourers or Big Shootas to either wipe the 5 T3 bodies or send them running on LD7. Guardsmen don't really clear objectives unless they're Veterans in Chimerae with Meltaguns or Plasma Guns. They claim the objectives while the other stuff clears them.



LQNKY said:


> I have already have two biker squads that are great for tank busting (power fist and lightning claw on champion means no attacks lost) so I was just looking to plant the tanks and get dakka down range.


Power Fist AND Lightning Claw on the Champion? They're some expensive 1 wound, 3+ save models right there. Why not 2 Meltaguns? Imperial Guard can do the long-range anti-tank game a LOT better than Chaos, so I'd use that fact.



LQNKY said:


> If I was going to bring a flyer I would bring a helldrake, and I'm not to worried about points because I like the idea of a chaos war band with lots of disposable cultists and the elite chaos marines.


So why are you taking expensive Cultists with unecessary wargear? The Vendetta is probably as good as the Heldrake, dependant on list. If I was against anyone with significant mech presence (all good lists) I'd prefer the Vendetta.



maelstrom48 said:


> Vendetta is one of the best flyers in the game, if not THE best, so don't dismiss it right away! MidnightSun is probably right about the krak grenades, though I respectfully disagree on the sniper rifles. They're especially good against Tyranids.
> 
> Also, gotta bring back the point about the sponsons on the Leman Russ. To me personally, it's not worth paying the extra points for something that'll only hit on 6's. I'd take those points and use them for a power weapon or something for a Chaos Marine. And in my opinion, Leman Russes look much better without sponsons.


I don't think Sniper Rifles are 'especially good against Tyranids'. One wound per turn on a Monstrous Creature is nothing big, really, and for 50pts you could do a lot better.

They're not just 20pts for 6 BS1 shots, though. They reduce the chances of Weapon Destroyed on your important gun from 50% to 25%. Personally, that's enough reason to buy them. In addition, I think you underestimate snap-firing Heavy Bolters. Roll enough dice enough time and occasionally you get freakishly lucky and hit with 3 or 4.

Midnight


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

Well it's 20 pts for the sniper rifles, and that's just a bonus for a squad whose primary purpose remains issuing orders. Sniper rifles just give a better chance of making the squad useful. About tied with grenade launchers, in my book.

I also think it's a bit strange that you'd knock on the odds of sniper rifles doing something, then turn around and optimistically count on snap-firing being effective. Granted on the 'weapon destroyed' point, but then, that's only a 1 in 6 occurrence on a penetrating hit. With AV14, that doesn't happen often enough for me to worry over.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

maelstrom48 said:


> Well it's 20 pts for the sniper rifles, and that's just a bonus for a squad whose primary purpose remains issuing orders. Sniper rifles just give a better chance of making the squad useful. About tied with grenade launchers, in my book.


I prefer Flamers as they mitigate the main weakness of Imperial Guardsmen, which is the BS3. Snipers get 1 shot, which only has a 50% chance to do a wound, allowing armour saves.



maelstrom48 said:


> I also think it's a bit strange that you'd knock on the odds of sniper rifles doing something, then turn around and optimistically count on snap-firing being effective. Granted on the 'weapon destroyed' point, but then, that's only a 1 in 6 occurrence on a penetrating hit. With AV14, that doesn't happen often enough for me to worry over.


Touche, my friend, touche. I also prefer the outline of the Russ with sponsons, and (albeit rarely) I've had situations where I've wanted my Heavy Bolters over my Battle Cannon. When you have to kill those last 2 dudes on an objective, Heavy Bolters are where it's at.

Midnight


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## Straken's_Fist (Aug 15, 2012)

If taking Guard as allies i'd take a 30-50 man blob with commissar sat on an objective behind an Aegis, because I think they are better than Cultists at doing this, with so many more options and usefulness. 

Then take a vendetta, because they are one of the best fliers in the game (put a PCS in it for sly late game objective grabbing).

Marbo is a must. Because he is Marbo. 

Then for Heavy Support slot Manticore or spam some Russ variants.


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