# Did the Emperor have an ace up his sleeve?



## Sangriento (Dec 1, 2010)

I always thought the Emperor left the Great Crusade to work on the GT, to get into the Webway. 

But recently in a forum I read that apparently he was plotting a much more ambitious plan to fight Chaos, something about awakening psychic powers on every sigle human on the galaxy and then lauching a focused strike to deal a mortal hit to the warp. 

This second plan was what really motivated the Chaos gods to unite against him and start the HH.

This sounded like fanfiction o me, but I guess I dont lose much asking those who know more than me about this. Is there any truth in all that? and if so, where can I find references to the whole deal?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

The Emperor returned to Terra to enact the Imperial webway project, we have that much in black and white. But that wouldn't have been the end to his plans, he would have obviously had other plans to achieve and dreams to bring to fruition. 

And I think what the person was referring to was the psychic evolution of mankind. Humanity is slowly becoming more attuned to the warp and is evolving towards it's psychic potential. The Emperor was/is the only thing protecting and guiding the species as the dangers of the warp become more potent every generation. But as for psychically awakening the potential of every human in order to strike at the chaos gods, yeah there's no basis for that.


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

but he could of.... AND im sure we have it in black and white that he was gonna let magnus run the whole gateway thing while he did something else


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

Well since we know that he was creating the GT as a means of entering the Webway and eventually ripping control of it from the Eldar (which we all know would never happen), and that the Chaos gods had been around a long time before they united against him, I think it's more fan fluff as once he'd started the Webway invasion and the Eldar struck back, he would have had an Oh Shit moment and be forced to turn his entire attention to it.


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## Hellados (Sep 16, 2009)

really? the big e at his prime with the collected power of the imperium of man, not the festering pile of shit we have now 

i think the eldar would of had a fight on their hands, and hadnt they just lost the massive empire so may of been slightly disarray?


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## Darkoan (Oct 18, 2010)

That is an interesting idea - and I have always wondered whether the Emperor was ever going to attempt the next step in evolution for the human race, '**** sapiens psychus', or whether like all great leaders he appreciated the control that comes with the class system, ie maintaining a super race of warriors at his disposal to keep the plebs in awe.

I have always believed that the Chaos gods got all hot and bothered because they got wind of the Big E's ambitions to destroy them all, and thereafter rule the Warp (for better or worse). This explains why the Chaos gods scattered, but did not kill, the primarchs - cos they needed Horus and a few of his brothers to eventually overthrow the E before he completed the Webway gate, accessed the Black Library, and figured out how to sate Slaanesh, disinfect Nurgle, pacify Khorne and hog-tie Tzeentch before dislocating his soul to the Warp for eternity as its sole ruler. 

Anyway, I'm sticking to my theory about the Emperor simply seeking to destroy the Chaos gods, and there is no definitive evidence that I know of which says otherwise.


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

Well the big whole killing 2/3 of themselves and blowing a hole in the space time continuom happened a while before this. XD  
And I'm pretty sure that even the emporer couldn't face off against a psyker with the potential equal to Eldrad's, or he would have been able to fight a chaos god and not Eldrad. XD.
Plus you got all the nasty tricks the Eldar have in the Webway (Warp Spiders, tunnels, harlequins, The Laughing God, etc).


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## Engindeer (Dec 1, 2010)

Cyleune said:


> Well the big whole killing 2/3 of themselves and blowing a hole in the space time continuom happened a while before this. XD
> And I'm pretty sure that even the emporer couldn't face off against a psyker with the potential equal to Eldrad's, or he would have been able to fight a chaos god and not Eldrad. XD.
> Plus you got all the nasty tricks the Eldar have in the Webway (Warp Spiders, tunnels, harlequins, The Laughing God, etc).


The Emperor would have destroyed the Eldar. The Eldar know the webway well, but not well enough to patrol every last part of it.

The gates of the GT was said to be tall enough, that a Warhound could walk through, unbowed. A pack of Warhounds against measly warp spiders?


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Isn't this the objective of the Ordo Hydra, from the Inquisition War trilogy? It sounds like someone has conflated the Imperial Webway with what Inquisitor Draco found-out.

GFP


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Cyleune said:


> And I'm pretty sure that even the emporer couldn't face off against a psyker with the potential equal to Eldrad's


The Emperor would have obliterated Eldrad, there's no doubt about that.



Cyleune said:


> Plus you got all the nasty tricks the Eldar have in the Webway (Warp Spiders, tunnels, harlequins, The Laughing God, etc).


It wouldn't have been easy, but with the original plan of having Magnus the Red maintain the Golden Throne, the Emperor would likely have personally led the armies of the Imperium to claim the Webway. The Eldar wouldn't have been able to withstand the onslaught.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Cyleune said:


> Well the big whole killing 2/3 of themselves and blowing a hole in the space time continuom happened a while before this. XD
> And I'm pretty sure that even the emporer couldn't face off against a psyker with the potential equal to Eldrad's, or he would have been able to fight a chaos god and not Eldrad. XD.
> Plus you got all the nasty tricks the Eldar have in the Webway (Warp Spiders, tunnels, harlequins, The Laughing God, etc).


No. It was a bigger portion than 2/3 of their population. Much bigger. 

Magnus the Red destroyed an Eldar Phantom Titan. By himself. And the Emperor is much, stronger than him, we know that.

Yes, the Eldar have some impressive tricks. But at this stage in the timeline, the astartes had the tech, the weapons and the numbers to win in a war of attrition, plus potentially limitless human auxillaries. 

The Eldar would have been annihilated.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

The plan to awaken the psychic potential on every single human was Magnus the red's, not the emperors, the emperor was against psykers for the most part.

If anything the heresy shows the chaos gods being pragmatic for a change.


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## Preysight (Oct 18, 2010)

Howdy everyone,

I'm in the process of trying to finish the Inquisition Wars and this does indeed sound like the objective of the Ordo Hydra. This is older lore so I would take it with a grain of salt, not that older lore is not still lore.

Also I don't see Eldrad being any sort of a match for the Emperor. If the Emperor did have an ace I would think he accomplished it with over 100 centuries of worship from trillions of imperial citizens.


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

What everyone is forgetting here is that for one. The entire eldar army would then have a direct path into terra. The forces of the imperium would be restricted through only going through one gate. The imperial forces (if they broke through) would not be able to navigate the webway and so more likely than not the dark eldar would get involved. If the emperor burst a hole in the webway it is also possible that chaos would then be able to send an unstoppable hoard of daemons into the webway and then into terra. 

Basically no one knows what the consequences would be. I'm just saying that not only the eldar would be facing the imperium.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

cegorach said:


> What everyone is forgetting here is that for one. The entire eldar army would then have a direct path into terra.


No, they wouldn't. Firstly, the connection between the Terran webway gate and the webway network was maintained by the Emperor himself (or should have been Magnus) via the Golden Throne.

Then we have to take into account that the area within the webway that the Terran gate led to had already been conquered by Imperial forces (_CV_, page 324: '...to the section of the web my secret army had by then conquered...'). And the fact that the diminished and recently shattered forces of the Eldar (with the Path system only recently arising to prominence to Craftworld society) would have been outmatched and outclassed at every turn by the Imperial forces. The Eldar wouldn't have had chance to set foot on Terra, and that's assuming they had access to the particular webway tunnel which led to Terra anyway.



cegorach said:


> The forces of the imperium would be restricted through only going through one gate.


Initially. But as they spread through the webway they would have surely gained access to many other gates.



cegorach said:


> The imperial forces (if they broke through) would not be able to navigate the webway and so more likely than not the dark eldar would get involved.


Trust for such a thing would fall to the Emperor. If he was attempting to gain direct access to the webway, I have no doubt that he would have also had a method for navigating the network - otherwise why bother?

As for Dark Eldar involvement, well Dark Eldar society and Commorragh hadn't been properly established at this point in history.



cegorach said:


> If the emperor burst a hole in the webway it is also possible that chaos would then be able to send an unstoppable hoard of daemons into the webway and then into terra.


What the Emperor did was essentially build an artificial bridge between Terra and the webway, which was maintained by his psychic might via the Golden Throne. Thus it was the Golden Throne which was preventing any potential breach by the denizens of the warp. The Emperor wasn't going around recklessly bursting holes in the webway in an attempt to gain access. In fact the only reason for the Secret War was the breach in the webway caused by Magnus, not the Emperor.



cegorach said:


> I'm just saying that not only the eldar would be facing the imperium.


No, but considering the Imperium had the military might to bring the galaxy under it's heel in a mere two hundred years, it's safe to assume it also had the power to subdue the webway, especially with the Emperor's psychic might aiding the task.


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> No, they wouldn't. Firstly, the connection between the Terran webway gate and the webway network was maintained by the Emperor himself (or should have been Magnus) via the Golden Throne.
> 
> Then we have to take into account that the area within the webway that the Terran gate led to had already been conquered by Imperial forces (_CV_, page 324: '...to the section of the web my secret army had by then conquered...'). And the fact that the diminished and recently shattered forces of the Eldar (with the Path system only recently arising to prominence to Craftworld society) would have been outmatched and outclassed at every turn by the Imperial forces. The Eldar wouldn't have had chance to set foot on Terra, and that's assuming they had access to the particular webway tunnel which led to Terra anyway.
> 
> ...


:goodpost:I think its fairly safe to say i just got powned. (if that is a term people still use nowadays ; if not then insert some apropriate word instead)
I thank you for making me realise just how little i know about the 40k universe. Maybe I should do a little more research before I do another post.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

cegorach said:


> I thank you for making me realise just how little i know about the 40k universe. Maybe I should do a little more research before I do another post.


It's a learning curve for everyone, half of it is debate and perspective anyway.  Even myself, _Baron_, and especially _Serpion_ (cos he's a retard) are still learning things. :biggrin:


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> It's a learning curve for everyone, half of it is debate and perspective anyway.  Even myself, _Baron_, and especially _Serpion_ (cos he's a retard) are still learning things. :biggrin:


It's slippery on top of the mountain...might not have room to let Serpion share our perch...


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## Engindeer (Dec 1, 2010)

Well The Emperor's throne room was said to be massive, and besides housing the nearly-finished Golden Throne, there were littered large crates all over the floor... They are probably synonymous with the ace up the sleeve.. 

x numbers of marines and titans might not have been enough for The Imperium to conquer the webway and topple the eldar, so the Emperor kept all these crates lying around that could contain everything he would ever need, should problems arise.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I would say no to your question. The reason why is basically every plan or weapon that the Emperor plan somehow turned on him or was just destroyed. Basically every plan he had was overturned and therefore pushed the Emperor and his Imperium in a bigger hole.

1. First are foremost we have the Warmaster, greatest primarch with no equal fall to Chaos. His first actions surprise the Emperor, and the Emperor doesn't know what the hell is going on.

2. Magnus destroys the Webway not knowing the consequences. I think that this is the moment the Emperor finally knows the Chaos Gods are behind this. But immidiately thinks Magnus is the traitor.

3. Out of anger he sends the Wolves against them and unknowing sends the loyal Thousand Sons to their doom.

4. Unknowingly sends three loyal legions to get virtually whipped out and also allows Horus to unite all the traitor astartes might together as a whole. Before this, their legions all over the galaxy.

5. He lost pretty much the entire Mechanicum.

6. If their was an Ace in the hole... it would have "the big three" loyal legions. The Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Ultramarines. Who did not arrive on Terra on time. 

As far as the Horus Heresy goes, the Emperor was slowly running out of options to defend his Imperium with.


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## comrade (Jun 30, 2008)

If there was an ace in the hole, and it was with the webway

He would not have used the Astartes

He had his Adeptus Custodes (numbering between 10,000 -100,000 depends on which fluff)
Which are superior to Astartes. And defending the Palace were the Imperial Fists which I actually number as one of the big 3. 

Fluff changes,

For example: In the Begining Ultramarines were a second founding, not an original Legion:wink:


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

So what if the Eldar had waiting for the imperium a huge battleforce of Phantom Titans?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Cyleune said:


> So what if the Eldar had waiting for the imperium a huge battleforce of Phantom Titans?


Imperator Titans + The Emperor= enuff said :laugh:


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Cyleune said:


> So what if the Eldar had waiting for the imperium a huge battleforce of Phantom Titans?


Post-Fall there is no circumstance where the Eldar could have withstood the Crusade-era Imperium. 

Craftworld Eldar policy post-Fall has been nothing but avoidance and removing significant threats before they arise. They simply don't have the strength to face the armies of humanity (or many other species/races) head-on (especially if one such race gained permanent access to the webway).


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## Engindeer (Dec 1, 2010)

Even if they were outgunned, would the eldar have tried to destroy the intruders? On the other hand, wasn't the emperor perhaps a bit more reasonable? Would he really slaughter the eldar, just as his primarchs annihilated any races who wouldn't assimilate - or would he perhaps have tried with dialog instead?

I haven't come across any mentions of pre-heresy Imperium meeting the Eldar though..


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Engindeer said:


> I haven't come across any mentions of pre-heresy Imperium meeting the Eldar though..


Aside from Fulgrim's meeting with Eldrad, and Alpharius' meeting with the Cabal (of which some individual Eldar were a part of). It's inevitable that the Dark Age human federations would have encountered the Eldar Empire pre-Fall. The Eldar Empire being the most dominant galactic power and humanity spreading from one end of the galaxy to the other would have inevitably brought contact.


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## Engindeer (Dec 1, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Aside from Fulgrim's meeting with Eldrad, and Alpharius' meeting with the Cabal (of which some individual Eldar were a part of). It's inevitable that the Dark Age human federations would have encountered the Eldar Empire pre-Fall. The Eldar Empire being the most dominant galactic power and humanity spreading from one end of the galaxy to the other would have inevitably brought contact.


Ahh yes... But that leads me back to my question:

If Fulgrim's meeting with Eldrad is any indicator, then how would the Emperor treat the eldar?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Engindeer said:


> If Fulgrim's meeting with Eldrad is any indicator, then how would the Emperor treat the eldar?


They had brought about the ascendancy of another chaos power, they were responsible for the Age of Strife and are generally hostile to humanity. For the betterment of humanity and the ensuring survival of the Emperor's aspirations they would be destroyed. Or something like that. :spiteful: 

Take into account that the official xenophobic policy of the Imperium comes from the Emperor. Unless he had something significant to gain from either bargaining with or capturing the Eldar, they would likely be destroyed on sight.


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

The Eldar would have easily wiped out Humanity in their prime. They had the power to destroy worlds whenever they felt like it. ( I can see Eldrad sitting in his flagship with a fleet of Blackstone Fortresses, blowing up Emperor class battleships to smithereens left and right while chuckling evily.)

But Post-fall any plans or power sorta went down the drain.  and so it was quoted "Once upon a time, the Eldar ruled the galaxy, and at their every whim created worlds and had the power to destroy them. But their greatness was abused and with it the great fall. The death of the Eldar empire heralded the birth of the Imperium of Man and mankind rose up and inherited the galaxy for its own." ((Not a actual quote. lol))

Ok, going back on topic: If the Emperor had completed his work of using the Eldar Webway then Humanity would reign supreme because it would be so much easier to do stuff and the Eldar wouldnt be able to do jack diddly about it. They would be pissed though because traffic in the webway would substantially increase.


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## Cyleune (Nov 10, 2010)

I think that if Humanity gained access to the Webway and the Eldar couldn't fight them off, they'd just collapse a few tunnels and therefore humanity couldn't use it.


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## Harriticus (Nov 10, 2010)

Engindeer said:


> Even if they were outgunned, would the eldar have tried to destroy the intruders? On the other hand, wasn't the emperor perhaps a bit more reasonable? Would he really slaughter the eldar, just as his primarchs annihilated any races who wouldn't assimilate - or would he perhaps have tried with dialog instead?
> 
> I haven't come across any mentions of pre-heresy Imperium meeting the Eldar though..


He would have said that the Webway is now for Human use, the Eldar must accept that. The Eldar would have resisted and probably have been slaughtered. Emperor doesn't seem like a vicious Xenophobe but he would wipe out an entire xenos civilization without a second thought if it would better humanity.


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## Engindeer (Dec 1, 2010)

Harriticus said:


> He would have said that the Webway is now for Human use, the Eldar must accept that. The Eldar would have resisted and probably have been slaughtered. Emperor doesn't seem like a vicious Xenophobe but he would wipe out an entire xenos civilization without a second thought if it would better humanity.


:goodpost:

Exactly my thoughts! It's the 40k Imperium who's incredibly intolerant of other races, even to the point where they would destroy genuinely well-meaning aliens for their presence alone.

To further *your *point, the sanctioned rogue traders (those who answer to The Imperium) each possess a 'Warrant of Trade'. Ancient documents dating back to the time of The Great Crusade, either signed by primarchs or The Emperor himself. These documents allows the holder to legally acquire xenos-tech, if only for the benefit of The Imperium - The Imperium would never hand out new ones as its inherently xenophobic, and besides that, nobody can overrule the words of The Emperor and his primarchs.

My point being, that the existence of such documents confirms that The Emperor at least saw benefits in learning about alien technology.

Maybe that's why he was so able to, seemingly, build anything he wanted?


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## comrade (Jun 30, 2008)

Cyleune said:


> I think that if Humanity gained access to the Webway and the Eldar couldn't fight them off, they'd just collapse a few tunnels and therefore humanity couldn't use it.



Do you really think he would just let the Eldar close a few tunnels? He created a new opening/ way to enter it, he would have found some way.... or he would find a way to fuck it up so badly, the Eldar couldn't use it either.

Back in the day, the Emperor was *THE* man. end.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

all this talk of taking over the webway is great but im curious as to what would have happened when the imperium came across commoragh. i think that objective would have brought about a whole bag of trouble in itself. im not saying they couldnt destroy the place but i would think they wouldnt have been a pushover. i think you would have had to roll in half the legions for that place and the devastation might bring its own problems ie weakening the webway maybe? whats your guys take on this?


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Harriticus said:


> He would have said that the Webway is now for Human use, the Eldar must accept that. The Eldar would have resisted and probably have been slaughtered. Emperor doesn't seem like a vicious Xenophobe but he would wipe out an entire xenos civilization without a second thought if it would better humanity.


The Emperor was a complete xenophobe, the extreme hatred the Imperium has for all alien races stems directly from the Emperor himself. 
Xenotech is just as much a heresy as worshipping Chaos. 
The Eldar were no real threat to the Imperium during the GC, they had just watched their own empire crumble before their eyes and were in disarray. 
The Emperor was busy bringing humanity back together but I don't believe for a moment that he had any intention at all of letting the Eldar live once he had finished what he was doing. They would have been wiped out eventually along with every other xeno race.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

When did Magnus destroy a phantom titan by himself? Damn I am so far behind on the HH books.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Engindeer said:


> I haven't come across any mentions of pre-heresy Imperium meeting the Eldar though..


Aside from "Fulgrim", wherein the eponymous Primarch meets with Eldrad Ulthran & co, "Prospero Burns" reveals that the Space Wolves' ... 

... Third Great Company assisted the 40th Expeditionary Fleet in defeating (utterly destroying, really) a Craftworld.


Was the Emperor murderously xenophobic? I think it's a matter of scale and context. The Emperor didn't _hate_ xenos in the way the current Imperium of Man does. Even back then his policies might have translated into hate among the line trooper and average citizen, but that was not necessarily his mindset.

Certainly it was not the case with his handling of xenos material. Had the Emperor been rabidly xenophobic, the Webway would not have even been considered.

Rather, I think the Emperor operated on a scale (galactic) that cannot be reconciled with conventional morality. My personal, humble opinion is that the Emperor understood that any species of sufficient number in the material universe with a psychic echo in the Warp was a potential threat. Not something to be hated, per se, but something that could potentially be used by the Ruinous Powers (if you will) as a weapon against Humanity. When you consider the ridiculous numbers Humanity possessed (which, during the Crusade era, were probably only surpassed by those of the Orks or the sort of species described as insect- or arachnid-like), the Emperor probably just looked at it as a matter of deadly mathematics.



djinn24 said:


> When did Magnus destroy a phantom titan by himself? Damn I am so far behind on the HH books.


In "A Thousand Sons", if I recall correctly.

Cheers,
P.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Unknown Primarch said:


> all this talk of taking over the webway is great but im curious as to what would have happened when the imperium came across commoragh. i think that objective would have brought about a whole bag of trouble in itself. im not saying they couldnt destroy the place but i would think they wouldnt have been a pushover. i think you would have had to roll in half the legions for that place and the devastation might bring its own problems ie weakening the webway maybe? whats your guys take on this?


Commorragh didn't exist as the _Dark City_ back then, it was only starting to become so. And although it would have presented a significant challenge (if the armies of the Emperor were even able to find it) it could have been overcome. 

When three Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes (Salamanders, Howling Griffons and Silver Skulls) were manipulated into besieging Commorragh during Vect's coup in c.M35 (when Commorragh was much larger and more established then it was during the Great Crusade) they managed to topple all of High Commorragh's noble houses and do tremendous amounts of damage to the _'city'_ itself. Therefore I think it's safe to assume that during the Great Crusade (if hypothetically the Heresy never happened or was delayed, and the Imperium gained full access to the Webway) a single Astartes Legion could have probably wiped out Commorragh.


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> Commorragh didn't exist as the _Dark City_ back then, it was only starting to become so. And although it would have presented a significant challenge (if the armies of the Emperor were even able to find it) it could have been overcome.
> 
> When three Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes (Salamanders, Howling Griffons and Silver Skulls) were manipulated into besieging Commorragh during Vect's coup in c.M35 (when Commorragh was much larger and more established then it was during the Great Crusade) they managed to topple all of High Commorragh's noble houses and do tremendous amounts of damage to the _'city'_ itself. Therefore I think it's safe to assume that during the Great Crusade (if hypothetically the Heresy never happened or was delayed, and the Imperium gained full access to the Webway) a single Astartes Legion could have probably wiped out Commorragh.


cool cool, i wasnt privy to the actual age of commorragh but i thought it was totally established when the crusade was going. 
shame really has i always had the idea that the dark eldar were greater in number than the rest but were too interested in their mad hobbies to go out and obviously they stay in commorragh as much as possible to avoid slaaneshs watching eye. 
the fact a few 1000 space marines can get in firstly then totally do the place over and escape is quite amazing to be honest but you learn something new everyday i suppose haha


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Unknown Primarch said:


> the fact a few 1000 space marines can get in firstly then totally do the place over and escape is quite amazing to be honest but you learn something new everyday i suppose haha


It wasn't quite like that. Vect essentially used them to enact his own coup against the noble houses of High Commorragh. The Astartes didn't find their own way in, Vect transported them in and then left the particular webway portal open to allow Astartes reinforcements to gain entrence. Tricky little bugger!


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## Unknown Primarch (Feb 25, 2008)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> It wasn't quite like that. Vect essentially used them to enact his own coup against the noble houses of High Commorragh. The Astartes didn't find their own way in, Vect transported them in and then left the particular webway portal open to allow Astartes reinforcements to gain entrence. Tricky little bugger!


heres hoping for a future space marines battles book on that story then. think that would be ultra immense seeing the inside of commorragh from the perspective of a attacking force and not some whelp on a torture rack haha


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## Ardias26 (Sep 26, 2008)

Being an eldar fanboy myself I would have to dispute all the pro emperor posts. Don't forget only the harlequins have a complete map of the webway and cegorach is also milling about somwhere in there. While the imperium would probably been able to use a small portion of it I think that the eldar had far more knowledge of its dangers and would easily have been able to prevent the imperium from gaining acces to most of it. Don't forget they had been using it for far longer than anyone else and probably had the knowledge to prevent others from using it by the time of GC.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

But at the time of the GC the Eldar were in complete disaray, they had just seen their race decimated by Chaos and were doing their very best to survive. Humanity was at it's peak, the Eldar would have been steam rollered.


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

in terms of how to destroy commorragh i give you 3 words........life eater virus. nuff said


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

demonictalkin56 said:


> in terms of how to destroy commorragh i give you 3 words........life eater virus. nuff said


A nice thing to revive a thread for...  Oh, and it wouldn't work.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> A nice thing to revive a thread for...  Oh, and it wouldn't work.


Rip a hole in the webway and allow chaos to flood in? Hurry, we need Magnus! He seems to be good at this kind of thing


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

i scan articles, read ones that interest me and comment lol; blame the heresy fluff thread lol!

out of interest y wouldnt the life eater work? (i know im askin bout specifics of a made up weapon but i gotta satisfy my geekness somehow)


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Commorragh isn't a city as we would understand the term. It is a collection of sub-realms and cities that are not physically connected or even close to each other:

_"In the depths of the web way lies Commorragh, the lair of the Dark Eldar; called the Dark City by those who fear to speak its name. Commorragh is no mere metropolis, for it is to the largest of Imperial Hives as a soaring mountain is to a mound of termites. Its dimensions would be considered impossible if they could be read by conventional means. If anything, Commorragh is more like a vast collection of satellite realms and cities linked by uncounted portals and hidden pathways. Viewed from one perspective, Commorragh is a loose collection of far flung nodes spread throughout the arteries of the web way like a malevolent virus. Its clustered concentrations are in reality scattered across the galaxy, thousands of light-years apart in places. Yet these locations are linked together by shimmering dimensional short-cuts. From within the web way’s confines, the immense distances between each sub-realm can be crossed with a single step. Commorragh appears within the web way as a composite entity of impossible scale, a shimmering, contradictory realm the dimensions of which pluck at the sanity of those who approach it. Thousands of ships dock each day within its out flung spines, for the Dark Eldar are far more numerous than even their Craftworld kin suspect."_

Even if a life-eater virus was somehow deployed into part of the city it would be isolated and contained immediately.


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

coolio; thankyou v much; i always imagined it to b something akin to a space hulk confederation in the webway, that is to say a collection of ships that together make up a city which however each ship is free to move and leave at will.

just had a nasty idea bout poss how to deal with it; drop the nid pheromones that the imperium did to tempt the nids into the ork territory (can't remember the scientist/inquistor that did it)

mind you nids loose in the webway would be terrifying prospect; what u reckon?


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

kryptmann gambit; there we go


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## Zakath (Feb 23, 2011)

> I think that if Humanity gained access to the Webway and the Eldar couldn't fight them off, they'd just collapse a few tunnels and therefore humanity couldn't use it.


The Craftworld Eldar don't know everything about the Webway, only the Harlequins do. If the craftworlders (who are notably intelligent) haven't learned to know the Webway in the long years of usage, how could the Emperor know it well enough? There's said to be deadends, dangerous gates and the place is by nature a colossal labyrinth. Even if the Emperor could navigate it, he'd be the only one. _And_ he might not be able to prevent the Eldar from simply blocking access or containing the Imperial invasion. 



> mind you nids loose in the webway would be terrifying prospect; what u reckon?


I don't think the Tyranids can get access to Webway that easily.. First off, pheromones need to be pretty strong to carry their scent from another dimension 
And I suspect that Cegorach would also be interested. Mighty as the Emperor is, he can't beat gods that have escaped Slaanesh and have a home-town advantage


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

i was thinkin a trail of breadcrumb type deal using an existing gateway such as magnus found in thousand sons (granted yes it was corrupt but there must be active pure ones)

as for cegorach; im not totally up on eldar gods...laughing god?? maybe he has a sick sense of humour; or of course hive mind would poss diminish him somewhat (im workin on assumption that he relies on warp as much as chaos does; more than happy to be corrected)


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Zakath said:


> The Craftworld Eldar don't know everything about the Webway, only the Harlequins do. If the craftworlders (who are notably intelligent) haven't learned to know the Webway in the long years of usage, how could the Emperor know it well enough?


Because the Eldar just had an apocalypse (the second since the creation of the webway) and the Emperor is the most powerful psyker ever? There really is no limit on what he could achieve beyond the constraints of the authors intent. 



> There's said to be deadends, dangerous gates and the place is by nature a colossal labyrinth. Even if the Emperor could navigate it, he'd be the only one. _And_ he might not be able to prevent the Eldar from simply blocking access or containing the Imperial invasion.


Are the Eldar ever show to be able to collapse parts of the webway? Because I always see this brought up as a defense, but have never seen it used in practise. Doing so (if they can) would be bad for them, as it would prevent them from accessing other parts of the webway, and would only slow the Emperor down as he has been shown to be capable of either creating or fixing sections of the webway already (a power which is notably lacking in the Eldar themselves).



> And I suspect that Cegorach would also be interested. Mighty as the Emperor is, he can't beat gods that have escaped Slaanesh and have a home-town advantage


And your logic for this is? The Emperor is mighty enough that the warp gods are hesitant to fight him directly and all Cegorach did was run. IF he still exists (which given that he is a construct empowered by the beliefs of a dying race is not a given) I don't doubt the Emperor could give him a good spanking, home turf or no.


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## MuSigma (Jul 8, 2010)

There seems some confusion (on my part at least), what exactly is the relationship between chaos and the web way.

Ill list the points I know about.

Magnus beats Titans on a planet - a planet that attracts his curiousity. The Planet has a webway entrance guarded by a demon.
Magnus reports it to the Emperor who says forget it I have a better one.

Magnus burns up several hundred thralls to gain entrance to the webway, but cant enter it to get to Terra - "an intelligence" helps him enter (possibley Tzentch himself) in doing so damaging the Golden Throne.

The Emperor in the Golden Throne helps keep Demons away from Terra.

Does the webway keep demons out - or are they able to use it.

Lastly the wanderings of Ahriman involve moving around the webway, only the navigational secrets keep him from finding the black library.


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

ur right so far so far as im aware!

the webway is made of stuff that severely weakens daemons and will eventually kill them; again so far as i know.

yes ahriman cannot enter the library even if he finds it due to and this is a large stretch of my memory him not having conquered the chaos in himself


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

MuSigma said:


> The Planet has a webway entrance guarded by a demon.


In my understanding this gate lead to a corrupted section of the webway. Many people chose to view the webway as being like tunnels through the warp (which is simplistic but sufficient for this post) in which case you can view this gate as leading to a 'flooded' section of the webway.



> Magnus burns up several hundred thralls to gain entrance to the webway, but cant enter it to get to Terra - "an intelligence" helps him enter (possibley Tzentch himself) in doing so damaging the Golden Throne.


Magnus travels through the warp to Terra, in breaking back into reality his powers are subtly amplified and redirected to destroy the webway. 



> The Emperor in the Golden Throne helps keep Demons away from Terra.


Yes but these daemons are coming through the open(ish) warp rift on Terra not the now broken webway gate.



> Does the webway keep demons out - or are they able to use it.


Daemons cannot enter into the webway without either breaching into it (which would 'flood' the tunnel) or entering through the physical realm (which would simply be incredibly draining).

That's my understanding of it anyway.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MEQinc said:


> Magnus travels through the warp to Terra, in breaking back into reality his powers are subtly amplified and redirected to destroy the webway.


Magnus travelled through the webway to Terra, the same way through which the daemons would later assault the Imperial Dungeon in the Secret War. 

Magnus, projecting his _"warp-self"_ through the warp came across the webway passage which led to the Terran Gate/Golden Throne, with help from some _"intelligence"_ (most likely Tzeentch, or some chaos aligned power) he was able to pierce the webway tunnel and travel directly to Terra via the webway.



MEQinc said:


> Yes but these daemons are coming through the open(ish) warp rift on Terra not the now broken webway gate.


Well essentially there is no warp rift on Terra, the daemons that the Golden Throne/Emperor is preventing from entering the Imperial Dungeon are the ones that have overrun the section of webway that the Golden Throne leads into (as a result of Magnus' _"adventure"_).


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