# Handicap For Deamons!!!



## norest4thewicked

I play DoC and im a new player, and its way too easy to kill people, i mean i like deamons because to me they are the most badass army, because they are practically made of evil energy unlike humans which could be a debate but i highly doubt it :mrgreen: 

When i face people, lets say 1250 vs 1250 i had a handicap of 100 but it was slightly too easy, so i come here today asking what a fair handicap for DoC

1000 pts =

1500 pts =

2000 pts =

any higher...


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## NagashKhemmler

You sound like a man who likes to blow his own trumpet my good sir.

If one powergames then there eventually will always be a 'best' and a 'worst' team, but in friendly games I try to make lists that are fun to play with and against, you may need to look towards that theory more.

On another note, I have beaten many powergaming lists on more than one occasion with Tomb King lists and they're one of the weaker factions and I've seen competent orc players beat competent daemon players. Whist some armies may have advantage, it comes down to the player skill more often than not! In addition, high volumes of low strength attacks tend to rip apart daemons, whilst the traditional high strength low volume option (seen as powerful) falls apart. They are a different army with a different approach required to defeat them. I don't believe in, or agree with handicaps and I don't believe necessarily that one army is vastly superior, I do agree that some armies are annoying to play against however...

I find there's no honour in a game with a handicap, when I am fairly beaten I find it to be an honourable defeat, with a handicap it's just....empty for me and them.


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## Franko1111

I agree with NagashKhemmler they don't need a handicap. call me a bad player if you whine about daemons but with them I average a 50% win vs loss. lots of little guys go thought most of the chooses. granted if I heaped money on them and made a "win all games list" I could do alot better but I say people who do that in a friendly game can't be very good as it should be about the Challenge :grin:


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## JokerGod

I think you just need to stop acting like a child and stop running power lists for friendly games. 

Try playing the game for fun once, you might enjoy it.


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## Gobbo

I wouldn't be too worried about it being "too easy" pretty soon GW will release a new armies book and no doubt that one will walk all over the daemons one. But yeah, enjoy it while it lasts, thats jus the way warhammer is at the moment.


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## NagashKhemmler

Gobbo said:


> I wouldn't be too worried about it being "too easy" pretty soon GW will release a new armies book and no doubt that one will walk all over the daemons one. But yeah, enjoy it while it lasts, thats jus the way warhammer is at the moment.


Seems to be a perpetual power creep. In a few editions we'll see bloodthirster stats on skeletons and wonder what 'toughness 3' was, some sort of imaginary friend from before....ha.

That said, I've done well in tournaments with my tomb kings and most people consider them 'crap' so I think the army helps, but good players find ways to make all armies competitive, I've seen tournaments won by orcs and beasts and people say they are really truly horrible in terms of power...I think 'easier' armies are like training wheels, you can recover your bike from a potential crash easier, but if you can't ride you just can't ride .

Armies like tomb kings are unforgiving, as are beasts one mistake and it's over, but their potential is high, just like all armies. How you tackle a certain army changes, against daemons you need lots of low strength attacks to triumph, rather than fewer high strength attacks, this works against certain armies and also works against conventional warhammer wisdom (higher strength helps lots against almost all armies...).

I watched plague monks smash a unit of bloodletters when charging it for example.


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## Reign

I would suggest instead of a handicap, you get out of your basement and find some good opponants to play. 

I can tell you right off the bat that you're not going to be "winning every game easily" against Vampire Counts, Warriors of Chaos, High Elves, Dark Elves, or Lizardmen when played by COMPETENT players. There's a keyword there. If you're in your basement playing your 8 year old brother, or your son, it isn't going to help.

Hell, just have your normal opponant field vampire counts and do nothing but zombies and vampires to raise the losses... units of 60... you'll cry a little on the inside when you do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING every turn because they are just being raised constantly.

Is it fun to play? Nope... but it'll shut you up pretty quick.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

I agree with everything thats been said, You need to

A: Play friendlier lists than you are right now
OR
B:Find somone skilled with their chosen armies youll be asking them to use a handycap by the first game


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## ravager37

so you prolly play against your little brothers say...orcs and gobbos and take kairos blue scribes, 2 mos tzeentch heralds w wings, 3 units of horrors, 2 units of hounds, and like 12 flamers rite? now these are merely assumptions but prolly pretty accurate ones


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## Blue Liger

Gobbo said:


> I wouldn't be too worried about it being "too easy" pretty soon GW will release a new armies book and no doubt that one will walk all over the daemons one. But yeah, enjoy it while it lasts, thats jus the way warhammer is at the moment.


I have a feeling that army may be Skaven and if not the Beasts of Chaos when the are released.


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## jigplums

well there have been 2 armies release since daemons, Interesting people still moan about daemons.
I say if your opps feel a handicap is fair then go for it, although i'd handicap the player not the army, so if YOU always win, then fair enough but if its the army let them change there army list to counter things they think need countering, etc... if they dont they will never learn.

proportions would be hard to get right, although if you play the same person you could say every time you win they get an extra 100points next game. When they win, go back to evens and work up again, that way they can challenge themself to do better next time


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## Franko1111

jigplums said:


> well there have been 2 armies release since daemons, Interesting people still moan about daemons.
> I say if your opps feel a handicap is fair then go for it, although i'd handicap the player not the army, so if YOU always win, then fair enough but if its the army let them change there army list to counter things they think need countering, etc... if they dont they will never learn.
> 
> proportions would be hard to get right, although if you play the same person you could say every time you win they get an extra 100points next game. When they win, go back to evens and work up again, that way they can challenge themself to do better next time


I am cofused by this as when I play a army like warriors of chaos it is always a close game with luck on the day providing a clear outcome, my group has skaven, warriors of chaos x2, tomb kings, vampire counts, lizardmen and empire x2 and i go into every game thinking it over carefully and having a 50/50 win rate and I can't beat the bloody tomb kings:ireful2:


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## The Son of Horus

I've never found Daemons to be particularly broken. They have some powerful units, but every army does. It's possible that you're just a better player than your opponents, so you win. It's also possible that you're taking the game too seriously and using the "I hate fun competitive" lists that are awfully hard to lose with if nobody's on their A-game. 

Now that I think about it, I don't think I've lost to daemons with my Warriors of Khorne. Even though you're unbreakable, daemons still can lose combat, and if they do, they take casualties, which makes it harder to win subsequent rounds of combat. 

I've found a handicap in points ultimately doesn't mean anything in WHFB. A unit of Warriors of Khorne, for example, can take on about three times their points' value in goblins and come out on top. Cutting the Chaos player's points allowance doesn't mitigate the fact that a Warrior of Chaos is just a far better model than a goblin.


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