# WoC - Enscorcelled weapons Vs Lances?



## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Generally speaking, what are the best option for Chaos Knights? Enscorcelled weapons or Normal Lances?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I know 2 WoC players and they disagree... I would say it depends on you and what you expect the unit to do.
If you are good at manouvering yourself and the enemy so that you get the charge and think that however many S6 weapons are going to destroy them in 1 turn then go for the lances. If you arent good at getting the charge or intend your knights to ram into frontline units which they will require a few rounds to beat (or if playing VC ethereals a lot) then go for the magic weapons.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Aye, my main two opponents will be another WoC force and Dark Elves. So no Ethreal creatures, and so S6 on the charge would be needed to break Warriors, other Knights etc. On the other hand, im not to sure about the Dark Elf force, whether it is man-spam or more specialised units. 

Im fairly sure there is a Black Guard _bunker_ in there, so would Lances or EW be best? they are at the end of the day Elves with Heavy armour, but with ASF that undermines _your_ ASF, and with 2 attacks each, champ putting out 3, im not sure...


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Black guard are S4 so your knights are laughing- 2+ saves should mean you can ignore ASF (though assassins/characters are another thing).

The magic weapons are probably best for DE: you wound on a 2+ with S5 and they mostly have 5+ saves (and you are unlikely to break black guard, hydras etc in 1 turn).
Against other WoC its more of a weird one, and you should really ask an experienced WoC player... the added strength makes it easier for the lances to wound and decreases the enemy save by an extra -1... but at the same time you are more likeyl to be in combat into a 2nd phase. 

Personally I would say lances if you think you'll be able to flank block units (get into the flnak of some warriors and you should break them in 1 go) or get the charge on other knights/flankers or ensorcelled weapons if you think you'll be forced into the enemy's front ranks or if you are likely to be charged.... TBH there are downdies to either and whichever way you go there'll be times when you wished you went the other way.
- I would take lances if I ran WoC knights... but then I am good at forcing my opponents into my traps (and so getting the charges I want- frenzied enemies makes this so much easier) and also it just looks better for knights to have lances (cant underestimate the aesthetics).


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Basically, if Frenzied/Archaon Bodyguard, and you're skillful, Lances. Otherwise, stay bog standard. The points are outwieghed.


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## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

Don't forget the points issue, lances cost more, and aren't better in all cases. If you can skim a few points off your list and pick up a unit that is nearly 90% as effective while providing some extra reliability by not depending on breaking them on the charge AND gives you an extra source of magic attacks for when you do run into ethereal, why wouldn't you? I'd only consider lances for a second squad of knights that would be hanging back waiting for an opportunity to counter charge. With the ensorcelled weps you can rush into the fight and it's not the end of the world if you take a charge.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> Basically, if Frenzied/Archaon Bodyguard, and you're skillful, Lances.


So... MoN and Banner of Rage is good for lances?

Anyway, I plan to run a fully-mounted force, using a big-block of knights and then smaller blocks. Im guessing bog standard is better for the small blocks to take down ethreals, and seeing as they will be hitting flanks etc they do not rely as much upon breaking on the charge...


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

I personally don't see the point in upgrading already 'upgraded' weapons. Especially when its not really a gain but more of a sideways step. For me, the str 5 has yet to let me down....


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

can't you just pin the hands?, then if your gonna go against undead you can take ensoce.....magical weapons, and any other time lances.

although I prefer the look of lances so I would always chose them


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

> can't you just pin the hands?, then if your gonna go against undead you can take ensoce.....magical weapons, and any other time lances.
> 
> although I prefer the look of lances so I would always chose them


Agreed. On the other hand, Ive finished my Knight unit and the Command models all wield swords, picks or maces with the other two normal Knights having Lances, So unless I want to boost the unit up to 10 then I can have it either way, unless against an uber-tight opponent....


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## Madshaw (Oct 8, 2009)

I go for enscorcelled weapons on mine, mainly to keep the budget down, but also because the strenghth 5 is good enough to deal with my usual opponents; strength 6 would just be overkill against the puny little WE and DE. on top of that i prefer the look of the usual smaller weapons that they have. my uber lord and hell cannon usually take care of anything that needs a higher strength attack


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## Durzod (Nov 24, 2009)

I guess I'm just too pessimistic.I always plan for the worst so when my knights get bogged down in a protracted combat with night goblins, they still wound on a 3+ (they've been netted, of course). It's just too embarrassing to need 4s to wound a goblin! And to spend points for the privilege!?
Seriously, it rarely is worth the points to 'upgrade' to lances. STR 5 is usually sufficient for most cases. Plus it works out really well against wood elves' tree spirits. 
As to the look of lances over swords, I have both in my WoC army (some cold one riders on chaos steeds are a Slaaneshi unit) and I just point out to my opponent that the unit has looooong pointy ensorcelled weapons. If they don't likr it, they don't have to play.


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## Drax (Sep 19, 2007)

personally i don't see the point in lances - as has been said, the extra points would be better served elsewhere.

regards how you've equipped them: in my own humble opinion, they don't look enough like lances to me - they look like particularly nasty halberds and spears. since both grant +1 to cavalry, just say they are magic imbued spears/halberds

also people, for clarity's sake i refer you to the 3rd point of the WoC errata where gw have changed the wording to: Replace ensorcelled weapons with normal lances…..5pts/model.

i'm not trying to be rude with that point, it just makes me laugh every time i think of it! good attmpt by GW to begrudgingly admit how stupid their original wording is!


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Lances are a waste of points. For the +5 per model you get to have S6 on the charge only, are not magical and do not give the +1 armour save bonus sor a sword and shield. Meanwhile the ensorcelled weapons gives you a permanent strength of 5, are magical and can be combined with a shield for +1 armour save.

Nuff said.


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## relicmoss (Dec 30, 2009)

Stephen_Newman said:


> Lances are a waste of points. For the +5 per model you get to have S6 on the charge only, are not magical and do not give the +1 armour save bonus sor a sword and shield. Meanwhile the ensorcelled weapons gives you a permanent strength of 5, are magical and can be combined with a shield for +1 armour save.
> 
> Nuff said.


+1 armour save bonus for a sword and sheild is for infantry only (and even then only to enemies attacking their front, I believe).


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## Cheese meister (Jun 5, 2010)

enscrolled weapons at 5pts extra the lance is just not worth it


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