# Age of Apostasy and/or Unification Wars Novel Lines - Yea or Nay?



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Eventually the Horus Heresy series is going to end, and maybe one day Games Workshop will develop new fluff, but before then I think it's more likely that Black Library will visit other periods of 40K history

Would you guys like to see novels based on the Unification Wars?

What about the Age of Apostasy?

I think the latter is a no brainer...it's solid 40K and it would definitely be interesting to read about Goge Vandire, the Brides of the Emperor, and how the Imperium survived that catastrophic era 

The Unification Wars are tougher: there's the risk of humanizing the Emperor too much and that period was quite different from current 40K, perhaps a bit too different 

Finally, how about early Great Crusade novels, or do you guys think such a series would be redundant with the Horus Heresy series

I made a thread a while back about novels set in the Dark Age of Technology and most people said that wouldn't be a good idea: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64311


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

I'd love a series about the Age of Apostasy/Reign of Blood, ending with the founding of the Ordo Heresticus perhaps?

Hell why not start it with the Cursed Founding (21st Founding) which occurred only decades before?


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> I'd love a series about the Age of Apostasy/Reign of Blood, ending with the founding of the Ordo Heresticus perhaps?
> 
> Hell why not start it with the Cursed Founding (21st Founding) which occurred only decades before?


yeah, AoA is just begging to be novelised 

I would say Goge Vandire came just as close as Horus to destroying the Imperium, it could even be argued that he got closer (after all he managed to become the Imperium's sole dictator)

I think Vandire would make for a fascinating character
I think the fact that he wasn't a chaos-charged superhuman primarch is a good thing, it would be interesting to see how a regular human being (albeit an ambitious, devious, and cunning one) brought the Imperium to its knees, I think that the fact he had nothing to do with Chaos (apparently) is also a plus...it shows that many human threats to the Imperium are not chaos-fueled

for instance the Imperium would probably find the ideas of democracy, progress, individual freedom, pursuit of happiness, and tolerance to be very threatening...the Inquisition would label those who espoused such ideas as "Heretics" and maybe trump up charges that they're in league with Chaos (Tzeentch and Slaanesh maybe) 

I think 40K actually has potential for a great deal of depth


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## raider1987 (Dec 3, 2010)

Unification and great crusade should be done in the horus heresy, but you know that people would complain that it was getting to far away from the main subject. Age of Apostasy I know nothing what so ever about, so I would be interested in it.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

I'm for the Age of Apostasy, seeing the Reign of Blood and the Brides of the Emperor would be amazing, a whole new era to explore and see the horrors of the Mad Lord of the Imperium, Goge Vandire.

But the Great Crusade and Unification Wars, I've gotta say no. The Unification Wars would barely be recognizable as 40k or 30k, too far removed from it, plus I think things of that war and before it should be kept in myth and history. And the Great Crusade wouldn't really be that new since in the Heresy series we have seen how many of the Primarchs were found by the Emperor and many of the Heresy books are still showing parts of the Great Crusade before Horus's rebellion erupts, the Legions finding long lost human worlds and leading compliance missions.



raider1987 said:


> Unification and great crusade should be done in the horus heresy, but you know that people would complain that it was getting to far away from the main subject. Age of Apostasy I know nothing what so ever about, so I would be interested in it.


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Age_of_Apostasy

Thats all you need to know about it, so far. Its a very cool era in Imperial history, very bloody and cruel too. Perhaps even crueller then the 41st millennium.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord of the Night said:


> But the Great Crusade and Unification Wars, I've gotta say no... plus I think things of that war and before it should be kept in myth and history.


I agree with the above. A short series on the Age of Apostasy would be great, and is just full of potential.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

I'd say Great Crusade, as I want to read more about Astartes Legions, but Unification Wars, a big no!


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

I'd love to see something on all of them, but seeing how much more that there's left in the HH, I can't see anything happening until they finish that. I really think they should take a different approach than they have with the HH as well, maybe making trilogies of each of them, with just one writer working on each series. I think this could help avoid the stories getting bogged down the way HH seems to have.


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## Tarvitz210300 (Jan 27, 2011)

i dont think unification wars would work i voted for more early crusade but what i really want is a story about the birth and early life of a primarch


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## Smokes (Nov 27, 2009)

Logic would say that they would work their way from the Horus Heresy, once it's finished, down onto the next major age which would probably be the Age of Apostasy. It would be an extremely interesting time in Imperial history and Vandire is a character to say the least...


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## Sanguine Rain (Feb 12, 2010)

I'm the one guy who voted none cuz, well, i want some xeno lore. I mean stuff like The Fall, or the battle between old ones and necrontyr (War of the Heavens, i think?) Not that imperial fluff is bad, just kinda sick of it.....


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

I'd prefer to see stuff that was the rise of the emperor. You know, not the small stuff for him, but whatever storyline would show his massive rise to power to where he sets himself up as THE Emperor of Mankind. After those stories are told, tell us all of the major stories that happened next. Then the next bunch after that. And so on and so forth. That way, everything gets told, but without the random jumping all over the place.


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## Duke_Leto (Dec 11, 2010)

For me Age of Apostasy is an absolute no brainer. Apart from the Horus Heresy it is THE defining moment for the "modern" 40k Imperium.

There are so many interesting stories that can be told set during this time including Sebastian Thor (from birth through to death and his travels after Goge Vandire was killed).

What is also interesting (to me) is that the Space Marine Battles series looks like it is about to depart from 40k because there is the forthcoming release Battle of the Fang set in M32. So there is no reason why a series like SMB couldn't touch on plenty of other key events throughout the Age of the Imperium AND/OR BL could do a series like SMB that is not focused on Space Marines, but simply on key events and whoever happens to be the protagonists - for example, the Macharian (sp?) Crusade.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Diatribe1974 said:


> I'd prefer to see stuff that was the rise of the emperor. You know, not the small stuff for him, but whatever storyline would show his massive rise to power to where he sets himself up as THE Emperor of Mankind. After those stories are told, tell us all of the major stories that happened next. Then the next bunch after that. And so on and so forth. That way, everything gets told, but without the random jumping all over the place.


I think a supremely skilled writer would be required to nail down a good portrayal of the Emperor
Even more so than the primarchs, he's a superhuman being...our ability to comprehend him or to relate to him is very limited 

If you've read the Dune series, you'd know how tough it is to have a "god" as the main character of a book (see _God Emperor of Dune_). 

Perhaps the main characters of a Unification Wars series should be Malcador and/or Valdor instead of the Emperor. That still leaves the problem of the Unification era not feeling anything like 40k. Perhaps the Thunder Warriors could satisfy space marine fans. Again, a really talented writer would be required to make the Thunder Warriors "Astarte-ish" (as precursors to the true Astartes) but also unique and memorable in their own right. 

From what I've read of them they seem to be quite tragic...their enhancements driving them to insanity. Perhaps the Emperor put them down before the establishment of the space marine legions. After all, they just disappeared before the Great Crusade.


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## Kickback (May 9, 2008)

AoA definatley, agree with Sanguine Rain about the Xeno stuff, the Eldar fall would be an interesting mini series.
No to anything before the GC/HH, or if they do just small short stories like 'The Last Church' imo


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## Diatribe1974 (Jul 15, 2010)

MontytheMighty said:


> I think a supremely skilled writer would be required to nail down a good portrayal of the Emperor
> Even more so than the primarchs, he's a superhuman being...our ability to comprehend him or to relate to him is very limited
> 
> If you've read the Dune series, you'd know how tough it is to have a "god" as the main character of a book (see _God Emperor of Dune_).
> ...


Oh, they could definately keep the Emperor spoken to as he's doing whatever he's doing, but you see the story through others eyes, as that would do the same job. I would prefer to see the story told from there and keep building newer stories up till present day 40k.


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## Liege of the Darkness (Feb 19, 2011)

The Unification Era has very little semblance to the tabletop game, so I doubt it would ever be put into a fleshed-out, novel format. Plus, it is so far removed from even the Horus Heresy, that, except short stories, it's unlikely it will _ever_ be written about.

The Age of Apostasy plays a critical part in several of Games Workshop's armies. Plus Dan Abnett likes human protagonists.

Abnett + Vandire = What I hope would be a really enjoyable, thorough, depthful and intruiging opener of the series. Akin to Horus in _Horus Rising_. Before the hideous blasphemer that is Ben Counter rubbed his grubby prints across Abnett's, and to a lesser extent McNeill's, masterpiece.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Unification Wars and Early Great Crusade, big no, no, no. Those should be myths, not anything detailed. 

Age of Apostasy, yes, that would be fine with me.


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

The Imperium survived the Heresy, only to nearly be destroyed 5,000 years later by another catastrophic event - the Age of Apostasy. It definitely deserves to be written about, even if there won't be as many books about it as books about the Heresy.

As for the Unification Wars or early Great Crusade, they fall too far outside the focus of the 40k timeline, in my opinion.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

The Unification Wars to me -- because a lot of 40k relates back to those days. The Proto-Astartes, and thus eventually the founding of the Legions.

You don't nessecarily have to even focus on the Emperor, per say. It could come from the persepctive of other historical figures of the times -- the Proto-Astartes, Generals, Enemy Warlords, normal civilians. Perhaps only focusing on the Emperor in small parts.

If Black Library and Games Workshop played it off right, they could develop even more myths and half-truths about the Unification Wars. Maybe the Emperor did things in these days that eventually comes back ot haunt him during the Crusade and Heresy. Perhaps it shows me to be even more god-like.

It could show the actual beginning of the Cult of the Emperor.

The Unification Wars could be a vast series so much like, or even better, than the Horus Heresy. It could give hints as to what transpired to lead to the Dark Age of Technology, of Old Night. Of coarse we know what caused it, but hell we also know Horus looses in the end -- so I doubt it'd scare folks away.

Myths are all very well, but they are even better if you have details and are still left with unanswered questions.


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## Sanguine Rain (Feb 12, 2010)

Well I really despise the whole worshiping the emprah as a god thing with a passion, because he himself preached against it, so a whole series about it would undoubtedly enrage me and make me yell at the protagonists on the train while I read, but i think the series about the Age of Apostasy would be enjoyable, but i stick by my word, bring xeno background plox!


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## empyrean (Mar 8, 2011)

Little Thread-Necromancing...
Hell yes, I would love to read about the Age of Apostasy. I never heard of it, looked it up and now I'm hooked! I think the Age of Apostasy as a whole is similarly epic as The Horus Heresy. 
I'm curious, are there other events which could be covered in a series?


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

empyrean said:


> I'm curious, are there other events which could be covered in a series?


Umm, The Dark Crusades? The Armageddon wars? The Damocles Gulf crusade?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Doelago said:


> Umm, The Dark Crusades? The Armageddon wars? The Damocles Gulf crusade?


But none of those could really be turned into a series- well maybe trilogies or similar but nothing on the scale of the HH, whereas the Age of Apostasy (and the Reign of Blood in general) is suitably epic with the only event more profoundly decimating the Imperium being the HH itself.


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## Sanguine Rain (Feb 12, 2010)

Which is why i say bring the Fall, i think if it were to be told through from varying points of view, from exodites to those that hid in the webway, farseers and aspect warriors alike, would be really engrossing. Because from what i understand, the Fall (what i mean is the climax, when the civilisation started to fall apart, and the streest rand red with blood, becuase i know that technically it lasted quite a while before amounting to one climactic event) is far more galaxy changing than the HH, cuz the whole new Chaos god thing...


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> But none of those could really be turned into a series- well maybe trilogies or similar but nothing on the scale of the HH, whereas the Age of Apostasy (and the Reign of Blood in general) is suitably epic with the only event more profoundly decimating the Imperium being the HH itself.


No, nothing the scale of the Horus Heresy, but I am pretty sure that, say, the 13th Black Crusade could be turned into a series of books.


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

The Age of Apostasy and the (very) early Great Crusade are some of the great blank spots in 40k lore. I'd love to see either one, though if I had to pick, I think the great rise and fall of Goge Vandire, the Reign of Blood, etc. would be _amazing_ if pulled off properly. The reining in of the Eccleisiarchy, which has always had so much power in the Imperium, would be a hell of a story too. That whole period is _screaming_ to be storied.

-Dirge


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