# How effective are commisars w/ pfist?



## Morgal (Sep 26, 2007)

I see many lists including commisars with the normal HQ's.

Personally i can't see 2 70 point units being att all worth it as an anti tank squad would do way more anti tank work and not mean the HQ has to charge forward.

Is he really that effective in combat...he's still human with most of there stats(slightly better ws)

If this is so why not just give an officer the PF as his stats are better?

Is it all for the +1 Leadership? if so is it needed on top of a a banner?
Is it worth the loss of your officer, should he fail?

other then conscripts i don't see a huge use for him but i see so many lists with him. what am i missing. because at 70+ points and wortha doctren if taken independent i just don't see it worth while for anythig with guard like stats.

the other part that bugs me is how often does he get to use his PF? the hq is not exaclt highly mobile and is more lickely to get assaulted than assault and being only 5 other models i doubt he lives long enough to use his fist.


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## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

I kit out my Commissars rather than my officers for one simple reason.

The Officer can and will get shot the SECOND he fails a Leadership roll.


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## onlainari (May 10, 2008)

Powerfists are just a bad idea in Imperial Guard no matter who has it.

Stick with your guns.


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## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

onlainari said:


> Powerfists are just a bad idea in Imperial Guard no matter who has it.


I beg to differ.

Only way to get a close-combat strength higher than 3 without being an Ogryn or first-charge Rough Rider.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

The officer in one of my command squads uses a power fist. He made an ork war boss break and run after he killed the 2 boyz that were with him. 

As for my commissars, they are there to provide moral support so to speak. I use a vox network for my leadership tests so the chance of my officers getting shot is pretty slim, but on the off chance they are executed, I have a back up plan.

Not only are they useful for leadership and extra punch in CC, but they are incredibly fluffy, and a blast to have in my army.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

onlainari said:


> Powerfists are just a bad idea in Imperial Guard no matter who has it.


*cough cough splutter*
ARE YOU MAD!?!?!?! :shok:

we rarely strike first anyway, so we may as well hit hard, and I think my LT would agree 
ahh those poor 30 fire warriors, 10 Kroot, 3 grey knights, 2 chaplains, 3 company masters and dreadnought, so many games guard with power fists are underestimated, so many times people are proven very wrong


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## KellysGrenadier (Jul 13, 2008)

I think Commissars are great. They add a punch to a CC Command Squad/HQ Command, the models look cool, and they have cool special rules.

That's only if you don't mind him popping your officer in the back of the skull.


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## Morgal (Sep 26, 2007)

IS the +1 leadership really worth it?
with a standard i find my main officer rairly fails.

and if they do is that not what iron d is for?


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Morgal said:


> IS the +1 leadership really worth it?


yes, and its a good enough excuse to take a commissar model, usefulness be damned


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## Morgal (Sep 26, 2007)

Cole Deschain said:


> I beg to differ.
> 
> Only way to get a close-combat strength higher than 3 without being an Ogryn or first-charge Rough Rider.


Exactly, there are other options.
Well for the powerfist...it costs at least 60 points..
for that i can almost get 6 rough riders.

I just can't see the powerfist and 2 attacks in an already hi point, high priority, and squishy squad. Although you are right fuard almost always attack last. But if fists are so worth it would it not be better to place it on officers? I almost never see fists used in that way.

I can see some use in never failing moral checks, but this is rare with a LD9 re-rollable check and if a squad does fall back it is worth the same as a commisar. 
I would rather have the extra squad.

or maybe i don't play aggresivly enough and my officers don't seem to cc much and often try to stay away from combat.


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## don_mondo (Jan 28, 2007)

IMO, a PF Commissar is of limited usefulness in 5th ed as compared to 4th ed. 

In 4th, the PF Comm was the only way to get an "invisible" powerfist in the squad. The Officers are ICs and could be picked out in hth in 4th. This is why old lists always had the PF on the Commissar and not the Officer. 

Now, in 5th, the Officers, altho still ICs, cannot be picked out due to the "ICs with a retinue are treated as upgrade characters" bit, so the Officer is not nearly as vulnerable. However, the no +1 attack for two weapons cuts down on it's usefulness. So if receiving an assault, a HSO command squad could potentially have 5 ST6 PF attacks with an officer and commissar both equipped with PFs, with 7 on the charge. Not too hot, since there are characters that cost half the points that can match or better that....................

Bottom line, I still don't find Powerfists that worthwhile for IG at all.


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## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

in truth, the commissar really isnt worth the points. in reality, the guard only need a LD of 9 at the max to ensure they stay fighting. the LD from the officer in charge is more then enough imo.

the powerfist too, isnt usually going to make its pointsworth. iv'e always steered clear.


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## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

Morgal said:


> Exactly, there are other options.
> Well for the powerfist...it costs at least 60 points..
> for that i can almost get 6 rough riders.


Who are good for one turn and one turn only.



> I just can't see the powerfist and 2 attacks in an already hi point, high priority, and squishy squad. Although you are right fuard almost always attack last. But if fists are so worth it would it not be better to place it on officers? I almost never see fists used in that way.


If I take a Commissar, I seldom give my Officer much. After all, he may end up quite dead on one bad Leadership roll. Run a LOT of Junior officers... Because if you want to talk about saving points, there you go.



Oh, and as to your "That's what Iron D is for".... not all of us take that Doctrine.


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## Morgal (Sep 26, 2007)

Cole Deschain said:


> Who are good for one turn and one turn only.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes rough riders ar eonly good for one turn, but i don't find my hq's to be worth much more than one turn once entered into CC. Maybe 2 close combats but not much past that. this means few attacks with the fist. 

Good point you can now take a J/O and stick a comisar there. this esentually means the comisar only costs 10 points and may be worth a fist. I like this idea, also means that you can take comisars in HQ squads fairly cheep and thus don't need to take a doctren to take an independent if you want it with the conscripts or something.
I have a question, would you give your leadership squad a battle standard if they had a commisar?
do you belive that
Jo+commisar>HSO
looking at it that way it seems the commisar is a good buy. more attacks, no need for iron D, an extra model and higher leadership. Still not sure on the powerfist so will claim i give him a PW.

Now debating using him and tooling up my 2 HQ squads for CC a bit more or at least one of em.(right now my hso is stuck with a standard and a mortar as he hides to provide leadership but this leaves him very static and wasts the hso stats. hmmm.


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## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

Morgal said:


> Yes rough riders ar eonly good for one turn, but i don't find my hq's to be worth much more than one turn once entered into CC. Maybe 2 close combats but not much past that. this means few attacks with the fist.


A totally worthwhile sacrifice of an Infantry Platoon HQ, for one.



> I have a question, would you give your leadership squad a battle standard if they had a commisar?


Depends on my Army.

Fluffwise, my current Guard list is BARELY a regiment, so they don't HAVE a Standard, so right now, no.

That said, I'd consider it, because, it increases the survivability of the Officer in charge.



> do you belive that
> Jo+commisar>HSO


In terms of useful efficiency? Absolutely. You STILL have three wounds in the HQ, but on multiple targets, meaning that anything causing Instant Death (Tau Plasma guns on up) can be dumped somewhere relatively harmless (the JO). Also, the end result leadership is more or less the same, since the JO is LD 9 if he knows he's got a gun pointed at his head.



> Still not sure on the powerfist so will claim i give him a PW.


Fair enough. Let us know how it works! Who knows, might switch mine...

And stick the PF on the JO.



> Now debating using him and tooling up my 2 HQ squads for CC a bit more or at least one of em.(right now my hso is stuck with a standard and a mortar as he hides to provide leadership but this leaves him very static and wasts the hso stats. hmmm.


And there's the rub... an HSO is as tough as a Guardsman can be.... but almost never gets stuck in if you're actually using his leadership. I prefer to stick the Honorifica Imperialis on either a Hardened Veteran Sergeant or a Junior Officer who HASN'T got a Commissar rising along (like the leader of an Infantry Platoon). That gives you the stats, while letting you USE them.

Also, the Honorifica can be hilariously cheap as an alternative.


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## Lord_Murdock (Jul 16, 2008)

Powerfist commissars own. I have no less than 5 in my army, and I find that they're the best way to get rid of annoying space marines/necrons easily. Anything that can stop a rampaging space marine commander or tau battlesuit without allowing them the luxury of their 2+ saves is good in my books! In fact, one of my powerfist commissars even took out Abbadon in CC (at the cost of the rest of the senior command squad mind you, but still...).

As I see it, an imperial guardsman with a power weapon is an annoyance, but an imperial guardsman with a powerfist is a threat.


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## gwmaniac (Sep 1, 2008)

i wouldn't cuz then the enemy would strike first and imperial guardsmen aren't known very well for surviving a beating. i'd let him attack first even if it is just a chainsword. try get a powersword.


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## Cole Deschain (Jun 14, 2008)

gwmaniac said:


> i wouldn't cuz then the enemy would strike first and imperial guardsmen aren't known very well for surviving a beating.


They're already slower than almost anything that's likely to get close to them.

They're faster than Orks, but not if Orks charge.

They're faster than necrons, but then again, who isn't?

They're faster than a Carnifex, but need a Power Fist to even DENT one in close combat.

There's a REASON Guard pay so much for the Powerfist.

Like Orks with Power Klaws, the loss of Initiative isn't much of a sacrifice for them.


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