# Tyranids eating each other?



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

I heard this a moment ago; 

When two Tyranid hive fleets meet each other, they have bitch fight between each other, and the winning hive fleet eats the loser and thus gains its bio-material? 

Bullshit or something I have missed?


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Hmm... seems plausible but also unlikely at the same time. It'd be like your brain telling your fist to punch your face. Doesn't seem very productive. But what if each hive fleet has a separate Hive Mind? Then it'd be like your friend's fist punching your face. All Tyranids are led by the Hive Mind, not just individual fleets, right? :scratchhead:


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

With a synopsis creature in the mist or other hive directed influences, no they will not eat each other. But if there was no hive influences and just two guants, then they will turn feral and presumably kill each other.


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## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Well I would assume if the hive fleet needs Biomass but none is readily available and this hive fleet is of strategic importance to the hive mind then the hive fleet will consume less important hive fleets to achieve its goal.


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

aboytervigon said:


> Well I would assume if the hive fleet needs Biomass but none is readily available and this hive fleet is of strategic importance to the hive mind then the hive fleet will consume less important hive fleets to achieve its goal.


I go with that, its a bit like saying:

"you, we need you to sacrifice yourself in a horrible, bloody death so everyone else can get out alive"


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Also it may be a method of passing on new adaptations and biomorphs. But likely yes, one fleet, more important than the other, would consume another fleet lacking any other biomass. I imagine the two fleets would not even duke it out but rather the victim just passive as they're eaten alive.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

It's a simple case of the strongest succeeding over then weak, the strongest coming away almost twice as strong, with the "better" hive fleet continuing the annihilation.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Every Hive Fleet has its own Dominant Overmind, the Hive Mind is simply the driving instinct that exists between them. 

It is not above one Overmind to seek to strengthen itself by eliminating a weaker rival fleet. Just like Baron said it becomes a case of Survival of the Fittest, even between other tyranid hive fleets.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I think it's rather unlikely that two _different_ Hivefleets will meet. They're usually spread pretty far apart. I think there's a picture of where the fleets have gone in the Tyranid codex.

And even if this wasn't the case, I'd find it rather unlikely that that Hivemind would allow two fleets to crash into each other by accident. It's not as if these fleets aren't controlled by a single consciousness; if two fleets were to meet it would be by design. I'd imagine that the Hivemind would have multiple fleets collect either to overwhelm a target with the specialized traits of either fleet, to overwhelm the target with numbers, or if one fleet is in desperate need of biomass and the other fleet can either spare the biomass or is deemed less valuable and is sacrificed for the sake of the other.


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## Hayden86 (Dec 8, 2011)

I have not read of two Hive Fleets doing such a thing. I would think two Hive Fleets running into each other is as probable as the Orks coming togather under one big banner and putting an end to all other races. 


I would say lower tyranids with out the ever watchful eyes of synapse and a broken link from the Hive Mind would in fact act as wild animals, fighitng and eatting one another for a number of reasons. 

Some short storie i read years ago...mmm something about a spacehulk, SM have a reason to go searching for something on the ship blah blah blah, they run into a sleeping brood of nids and i think one of the boarding team members said something about the nids have been eatting each other. 

They are not above eatting from there own hive fleet, but this is when they are cut off from synapse creature.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

It HAS happened, and the Hive Mind is NOT a universal tyranid controller. 

As I said, *each fleet* *has its own will*, they are not all controlled by a single mind. This is from codex and black library sources, and so is canon.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I thought i had read it somewhere too.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> It HAS happened, and the Hive Mind is NOT a universal tyranid controller.
> 
> As I said, *each fleet* *has its own will*, they are not all controlled by a single mind. This is from codex and black library sources, and so is canon.


Care to share your source? From the Tyranid codex:

"This section describes the link between *every* (bolded for emphasis) Tyranid creature and the implacable will of the Hive Mind that unites them."

"Yet this mighty host is bound by the implacable will of a single unfathomable intelligence, a gestalt sentience known only as the Hive Mind. Under the influence of this ancient consciousness, the Tyranids function in perfect unison..."

"Indeed, the separate Hive Fleets appear to be self-sufficient, exhibiting different, characteristic strategies and developing unique creatures to overcome their prey. *However, the truth is more complex than any could imagine, for each Hive Fleet is but a splinter of one greater assemblage, acting under the instructions of a single monstrous and unfathomable intelligence--the Hive Mind.*"

"The Hive Mind holds all Tyranid creatures in a psychic bond that enables them to act together as one gesalt organism."

Sounds like everything is run by the Hive Mind to me.


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## Hayden86 (Dec 8, 2011)

hailene said:


> Care to share your source? From the Tyranid codex:
> 
> "This section describes the link between *every* (bolded for emphasis) Tyranid creature and the implacable will of the Hive Mind that unites them."
> 
> ...


:goodpost:


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

I too would like a source for that assertion Serpion5, as i've never come across it myself. Nor can i recall any BL books that would have such information (there are precious few on Tyranids as it is). 

While i realise each Hive Fleet possesses it's own Tyrants and Norn Queens, creatures with some level of sentience and 'free will' i don't believe that qualifies each Fleet as having it;s own directing intelligence.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

It is one of the reasons why they are so successful.

A million _clones _ fighting and gathering information = win.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Novel: Warriors of Ultramar by Graham McNeill is one source. Based upon Inquisitorial observation and behavioural studies. They discern that while all Hive Fleets share the same goal of feeding and survival, for the most part they are autonomous. There is no galaxy wide co-ordination and the stalling of one tendril does not affect the others in any notable way if at all.

Short Story: In the Belly of the Beast by William King. The mind of a Hive Ship speaks to a space wolf scout, attempting to gain control of his mind. Suggesting that the ship itself is able to perceive minds on an individual basis, not something I would associate with such a galaxy spanning sentience as the hive Mind.

I never once asserted that each overmind had its own free will, ambitions and such, I know full well that every single tyranid has the same purpose and drive. It is this that the Hive Mind represents. The drive, the purpose. 

The evidence of seperate minds within the whole is supported by the fact that tyranids will fight between Hive Fleets in the first place. If it was simply to have the stronger absorb the weaker, why would there be need for any resistance? 


Furthermore, lore suggests that even the gods do not see everything at once, how would you expect a single entity to micromanage on such a scale? I don't think I need a canon source to make a few logical assumptions based on common sense.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

hmmm, interesting idea. Normally I'd say they are stupid bugs but GW seems to want to give them intelligence. So i wouldn't put it past them:biggrin:


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Ah i misinterpreted what you were saying then Serpion, i thought you were ascribing them a much greater degree of autonomy. 

Having just looked through _Warriors of Ultramar_ i see you are indeed correct.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Novel: Warriors of Ultramar by Graham McNeill is one source. Based upon Inquisitorial observation and behavioural studies. They discern that while all Hive Fleets share the same goal of feeding and survival, for the most part they are autonomous. There is no galaxy wide co-ordination and the stalling of one tendril does not affect the others in any notable way if at all.
> 
> Short Story: In the Belly of the Beast by William King. The mind of a Hive Ship speaks to a space wolf scout, attempting to gain control of his mind. Suggesting that the ship itself is able to perceive minds on an individual basis, not something I would associate with such a galaxy spanning sentience as the hive Mind.
> 
> ...


You have to look at where your information is coming from:

The Inquisition believes they are indepdent from each other. This matches closely with the quote that says that it _appears_ that the Hive Fleets are independent, but in actuality are controlled by a singular Hive Mind.

As for the Bio ship talking, you ought to know that various creatures within the Hive Mind have some level of self-awareness. I don't have the Tyranid codex on hand (I'm on break at work), but it states that some of the higher level Tyranid lifeforms are capable of independent thought, but are ultimately under control of the Hive Mind.

Besides, has there been an actual situation where two SEPARATE Hive Fleets attack each other? They're usually spread so far apart they never meet up, anyway. Two Hive Fleets fighting and one absorbing another is merely conjecture from forum members. I don't believe it's happened in canon.


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## Lucius Vane (Jan 21, 2008)

Dammit people, this isn't even OLD fluff. How has this gone on for two pages?

From Codex: Tyranids, 4th Edition:


> CONVERGENT EVOLUTION
> Recent reports of the splinter fleets of the known hive fleets turning on each other in a full-scale cannibalistic war have been greeted with elation only by the short sighted. When one considers the end result of any usual conflict involving Tyranids it becomes apparent that when one hive fleet fights another no resources are expended whatsoever. Infighting of this kind, usually taking place upon the surface of a planet, is the perfect way to determine which of the two hive fleets has the stronger component parts. Eventually, the weaker of the two forces is driven back and finally slaughtered. Then, as with all victims of the Tyranids, their bodies are rendered down and absorbed by the bio-ships of the victor. In this manner, none of the biological matter seemingly destroyed in this internecine conflict is wasted at all. Furthermore, any strengths that the losing hive fleet may have assimilated or evolved over the course of its conquest thus far are absorbed at a cellular level and mingled with those of the victorious hive fleet in a new hybrid generation of warriors more effective than the sum of its parts.


Sidebar, page 16
Learn your history.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I knew i had read it somewhere. Thanks for the citation.


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## Lucius Vane (Jan 21, 2008)




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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks for the information. Learned something new.


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## jselvy (Sep 12, 2011)

I have seen university level term papers that weren't as well documented and sourced as this argument (meaning debate NOT fight). Well done lads!


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Lucius Vane said:


> Dammit people, this isn't even OLD fluff. How has this gone on for two pages?
> 
> From Codex: Tyranids, 4th Edition:
> 
> ...


Fourth edition is old fluff yo.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Doelago said:


> Fourth edition is old fluff yo.


It remains canon until a newer source directly contradicts it, which Tyranids 5e does not.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> It remains canon until a newer source directly contradicts it, which Tyranids 5e does not.


Aye, but I meant the age of the book. I never even saw that codex on the shelves. :laugh:


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

After reading the book Desert Raiders, it seems that the Tyranids recycle their dead warriors to create new, thats why they are so hard to beat since they keep coming back with the old.  I have no problem to see them eating another crippled Hive Fleet or to "reborn" them into new warriors, otherwise no.


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