# Versus The Soulgrinder



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

*Versus: Week Twenty-One​*
This week we're going to focus on the new Daemon codex.
5th edition promises to be kinder to vehicles, and the Soulgrinder is the only vehicle in their list. 

It's huge and heavily armored, requiring S8 or higher to penetrate its AV13 hull. Being a walker it is free from the vulnerability most vehicles will face against assaults in 5th, able to use its impressive fromt armor rating against all attacks in close combat. While its WS, BS and Initiative aren't high, thye're good enough, and with two DCCWs, it doesn't need a lot of hits to do massive damage. And it's Fleet, so it can run and still assault.

Its default weapon setup is geared for assaults, but it can become a long-range troop-blaster, or a medium-range tank killer easily enough.

Walkers can move in and out of terrain easier than other vehicles, and in 5th gaining that cover save is very important.

being a daemon it deploys like the rest of the army, giving it a good chance to be able to deep strike in...and it's immune to Shaken and Stunned results.

It's everything scary about a Defiler, but turned up a notch. So how do you handle it?


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

make it a priority of destruction, as posted, it is the only vehicle in the daemon list, so missile launchers are the way to go, krak it open, and then switch to frag when it is gone. As for special weapons, melta guns will make short work of it. It seems scary because of the fact that it almost needs to be killed to be stopped, no making it stop for a turn or two. an alternative to destroying it is to tarpit the bugger, and save the heavy weapons for the horde of daemons, or the greater screwheads of chaos. Above al, stay calm, there will be no more than three, and they will take up points that could have been more daemons.


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## chrisman 007 (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, a couple of russes and a Basilisk would usually fix it. But then theres always the fix all Raiilgun.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Power fists, even with the double-arm nerf, are still the catch-all cure for everything. Bring 'em, love 'em. Barring that, somebody with a meltabomb *could* do it, if they can manage to strap the thing on the soul grinder...


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## Chryos (Jun 26, 2008)

Standard answer, its nothing a Broadside unit with marker support can't handle. :victory:


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Send in the Scarabs! *munch munch munch...*


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

As you said, its the only "tank" option for the Daemon army, so concentrate all your anti-tank fire on it to take it out asap.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Of course, if you concentrate your anti-tank on it, you;re ignoring all the *other* things you should be shooting your lascannons at.

Just because it's the only thing with an AV doesn't mean it's the only target for lasdcannons and missile launchers. Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes are just as worthy targets, and by ignoring them to focus on the soulgrinder, you leave yourself exposed to them


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Tarpittin the soulgrinder seems the most bang fer yer buck. Galahad is right about the soulgrinder not being the only lascannon target.


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## effigy22 (Jun 29, 2008)

I would support the melta gun idea better, being a daemon its going to deepstrike on, and if its a combat based one, its gonna want to get close. But then theres the downside, your close to a daemon ARMY!


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

Moving away and collectively hitting all major targets with whatever weapons possible. Against daemons, you're gonna lose models. Just know which ones are more worthy to be sacrificed. Lines of fire seem best, and keep the models behind secure for at least another volley.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

As a Daemon player myself, I can say with confidence that there's nothing I hate more than lascannons/railguns and melta weapons when it comes to my Soul Grinders. Weapons that are S8 or less really don't concern me because it's so difficult to get a penetrating hit (pretty much the only way to take out a vehicle these days). Weapons with an extremely high Strength can get penetrating hits easily enough and each one will cause a lot of damage to a Soul Grinder. Above all though, we fear the melta because of its good Strength, additional D6 for armor penetration if fired at close range and AP of 1. Also, it isn't even all that hard to pack quite a few meltas into an army. Chaos Space Marines and Imperial Guard are probably the biggest culprits for this though loyalist Marines with Traits or a lot of Attack Bikes can pull it off too.

Other than just killing the Soul Grinder though, you need to be aware of its capabilities. There are a few different configurations and they need to be dealt with in slightly different ways.

*Naked Soul Grinders* - those that don't take any upgrades for their Maw Cannon. These ones are probably the lowest priority because the worst they'll do is shoot up a unit with something akin to a heavy flamer and the harvester. It needs to come close to do much damage, so have your meltas ready and waiting.

*Armor Grinders* - those that take the Tongue ability for the Maw Cannon. These guys are only slightly more dangerous than Naked Grinders because they can do damage from further away. This is where you point your lascannons if the idea of losing a Predator, Hammerhead or Land Raider early in the game doesn't appeal to you. Remember to point your missile launchers at Greater Daemons, though! You'll need a 2+ to wound them with either weapon and the lascannon is far more useful when aimed at a Grinder!

*Troop Grinders* - those that take the Phlegm upgrade for their Maw Cannons. These guys are probably the biggest threat out of them all because they can chew up infantry like nobody's business. Since the advent of 5th edition they've become even more deadly as their high Strength, low AP large template will rarely miss and can catch a lot of models underneath it. If one of these babies gets into range of anything that's softer than a Terminator Squad, prepare to take some losses. The best ways do deal with these guys are to nail them with as many lascannons as possible and send a unit after them to try and tie them up in combat as well. You don't want this thing to fire its Maw Cannon more than once as few armies can handle that sort of beating for an extended period of time.

*Everything Grinders* - these are those Soul Grinders that you see packing both the Tongue and Phlegm upgrades. Surprisingly these are actually less dangerous than Troop Grinders because they cost more points and will generally do the same thing as a Troop Grinder anyway. If the Daemon player decides to try to Tongue a vehicle instead of Phlegm an entire squad into oblivion, more power to 'em. Deal with these guys just like you would a Troop Grinder, but remember to smile a little wider when it goes down as you know that your opponent could've taken some very nasty upgrades for those extra points.

Man, the Chaos Gods are gonna kick my ass for telling you guys this...

Katie D


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

i think my preffered methods would be either, wace serpant mounted fire dragons (guaranteed kill) or the las cannon option with plenty of plasma to focus on the other big daemons. All race dependant of course.


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## SpaNNerZ (Jun 17, 2008)

Ancient Tiel' a fier said:


> i think my preffered methods would be either, wace serpant mounted fire dragons (guaranteed kill)


Hahahaha no doubt, Fire Dragons put fear into anything though...
but I've recently fallen under the influence of orks 
and I reckon Tankbustas *might* be able to give 'em a run for their money, guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it


peace out


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## dizzington esq (Apr 24, 2008)

Before 5th ed I found that gauss weapons and disruptor fields worked great against this guy. Now that we are well and truly in 5th ed I still stand by these methods albeit they are somewhat reduced in power but enough glancing shots can still give the same results more or less... an immobolise result on its own is just as good.

Did I mention that I like scarabs...


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

a load of lascannon fire up the ass would do the job but fail that charge tha bastard with power fists.


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## Katrex (Jul 10, 2008)

Ah joy, I remember this fight from my demon campaign... I told my team to ignore it. Daemons deepstriked first, Lost two ravenwing bike from it. Turn two turboed behind cover, turn three move twelve and shot Multi melta and to melta guns Weapon destroyed and immobilized, (feeling sneaky to off his close combat weapon) charged, stuck a meltabomb and destroyed it. D6 massacre... rolled six... Behind cover again... so satisfying. Meanwhile in those 3 turn a 9 bike squad destroyed 2 full squads of korn berserker's( with abbadon... rolling a one with his daemon sword helped), squad of possessed and a squad of chosen ones.... what can I say 12 initiative 5 power weapon attacks with re rolls to hit, 22 normal attacks and then 5 strength 8 attacks just slaughters everything. Interegator chaplain and master of ravenwing.... shame i cant be repeated in fifth ed, d6 six consolidation in to another unit at the end of my turn was essential.

Then that same squad ended up killing 40 necron wariors a necron lord 20 tau fire warrios imperial guard.... guh it was evil.. Still only a minor victory since six scarabs turboboosted off the edge of thebored


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## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

the only way i caan is to rush them with thunder hammer bikers


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## Chaos is power (Apr 24, 2008)

id say charge it with a SM captain with power weapon or emporers champion


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Power weapons won't even scratch an AV 13 hull, man. You'd need a powerfist, and you'd also need to survive the onslaught of S10 attacks that will be ignoring your armor and swinging before your fist.


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## shas'o7 (May 17, 2008)

Really, just shoot it. Broadsides will work, Fusion Blasters will work,it doesn't matter. It's not the only target, but it's still worth a Railgun shot.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Thats it for all VS threads for characters or specific units. Lets not do them anymore please. Only do VS a specific list or army from now on.


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## Da Red Paintjob Grot (May 6, 2008)

blow its stupid head of with a lascannon asap.


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## Minion_1981 (Dec 20, 2007)

Just one shot from a well placed Railgun =p


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## shas'o7 (May 17, 2008)

darklove said:


> Thats it for all VS threads for characters or specific units. Lets not do them anymore please. Only do VS a specific list or army from now on.


Why? The others seem to be enjoying them.


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## ServiceStud (Mar 1, 2008)

Personally, I have no real idea of the strengths and weaknesses of the Soulgrinder, that is why this thread looked interesting.

Most of these posts seem pointless though. What good is it to tell me that Anti Vehicle weaponry works well versus Vehicles? Or that you only need to be lucky?

Most posts seem to follow this formula: "What is good against X? Anti-x weapons." Well duh!

Please take a look at Katie D's post. THAT is a worthwhile read.


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## Changer of Ways (Jan 3, 2008)

Its priority would depend on what it's firing at me.
In the end, what do you think that chainfists are for?


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## Juiceypoop (Jun 5, 2008)

It's helpful to remember that it's often easier to get behind a soul grinder and shoot it in the rear armour than other veichles if you have mobile fire power, because most deamon players will deep strike it close to your army.


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## AzraelJahannam (Jun 28, 2008)

Deepstrike a dreadnought with a multi melta behind it... my solution for any badass machine on the other end of the board... if you scatter onto the thing, your drop pod just lands beside it and you have some flexibility for disembarking before shooting the melta, and with a max 12 inch scatter, you cannot scatter out of range of the double d6 killzone for a multi melta. worst thing that could happen is you scatter in front of it, and that just means you better not roll double 2's or worse.

Failing that, it's always been an assault squad with melta bombs. Even having to roll 6's to hit, one of them should connect... But I much prefer the deepstriking dreadnought when possible.


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## Traitor (Jul 29, 2008)

Don't bother with melta bombs on the walker - 1 attack and 6s to hit, you're not going to get far without spending a large unit against what may only be a 160 point grinder (and your opponent could have 3). Be careful if you play space marines - include MORE than just a single melta gun, as with phlegm upgrades and the other shooting support, the unit that holds it is going to die as soon as the demon arrives. Possibly best off using vehicles with stronger weaponry also - if the soulgrinder shoots as you, it can only destroy that tank at most (and with just BS3 it will miss the anti-tank shot half the time), and a land raider with a multi-melta can move 6" and still obliterate a Soul Grinder. If the demons have to focus on the tanks, then a single multi-melta in a tactical squad can easily destroy the Grinder (unless the dice Gods hate you).


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

Another thought is to throw a cheap sacrificial unit at it. If you have swarm units (scarabs, nurglings, rippers), those work great. I've had a 'grinder tied up for the entire game due to a unit of ripper swarms. I'd suggest throwing a standard troops choice squad at it, maybe with a powerfist, if you have the option. Let the thing murder that poor unit while you maneuver behind it with some sort of heavy or melta weapon (Tau Piranha, landspeeders, attack bikes, or a tank if you have one in the neighborhood, etc). The thing about the Soulgrinder is that while it is a decent melee unit (it's big, with the dreadnought close combat weapon thing going on, but only at a WS 3), it's real strength is the phlegm attack. Anything you can do, even if it is only tying it up for a couple of turns, will be a couple of turns it's not phlegming your army with the, "Loogey of Doom." Unfortunately, it's not a piece that one can use the philosophy of, "I'll just out range it." With a range of 36", chances are real good every unit in your army is at risk the moment a Soulgrinder hits the table.

With 5th edition, the rules for blast weapons (using scatter instead of BS) seem to make the phlegm upgrade a, "no brainer." If I've got the extra points left over for the tongue upgrade after I've given them the phlegm upgrade, then sure, I'll give them the tongue upgrade. But the phlegm, that one's mandatory for my 'grinders.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

VAS squad or terminator squad armed with thunder hammers. They hit at sr. 8, 9 on the charge if corbulo's near, you always have at least 2 attacks, 3 on the charge, plus the soul grunder cannot attack until int. 1 hits have been resolved. It's great for delaying it at least as then with all those high str. weapons you're going to be destroying weapons all over the place....The shaken thig is ignored but that's a minor thing I think...


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## Traitor (Jul 29, 2008)

Yea but really that all depends on getting your expensive thunder hammer unit into combat. Demons will always have a turn shooting at you, and terminators are a good target for flamers and the like. And if you want to deepstrike them in, you have to be careful that you dont get charged by bloodletters or other units first.
I think the only real way to easily take down a soul grinder is simply to take a devestator squad or something similar. Try to keep the heavy weapons either hidden from demon shooting, or find some other way to get a clear shot. If your tactical marines holding a single lascannon are not using their bolters to fire on the advancing bloodletters, it doesnt matter that much to them whether they manage to luckily destroy the grinder.


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## Jardezz (Aug 6, 2008)

On our first game against the new deamon list, my teammate needed 4 rounds to kill a Soulgrinder! For 3 rounds, he fired 3 Vanquishers, and allways the highest damage was a one or two on the dice!

Then we got it off with just one lascannon!


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## Dessel_Ordo (Jul 28, 2008)

oops, wrong thread, srry...


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