# Dark Vengeance- Chaplain struck by Nerfbat?



## Majere613 (Oct 14, 2008)

Got my DV sets today, and as I was digging eagerly through it I found the card insert for Interrogator-Chaplain Seraphicus. As you'd expect, it lists his rules and wargear.

Here's the thing: no Litanies of Hate. Instead, he has 'Litanies of the Dark Angels' which is basically Preferred Enemy: Chaos Space Marines. He doesn't have Honour of the Chapter or Fearless either.

Now of course this might just be for various purposes of balance for the DV set, but if this is the way interrogator-chaplains are going to be in the new codex DA, then they might just have achieved the seemingly impossible and made the Dark Angels _worse_.


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## Supersonic Banana (Jul 23, 2010)

Remember that this is GW we are talking about so i wouldnt put it past them :/
However, if one model in the unit has preferred enemy then they all get it.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Chaplains already took a hard nerf by having their Crozius be a Power Maul, in my opinion. Conferring Preferred Enemy isn't necessarily a nerf, though-- yeah, it's not as good as re-rolling misses on the charge on turns you charge, but it provides you with a benefit for units that are more likely to get charged than be charging, like Tactical Squads (who are going to be shooting their bolters most of the time.) So its kind of a mixed thing.

I wouldn't read too heavily into the rules presented for models in Dark Vengeance though-- a lot of things were left out for simplicity's sake, just like in every starter box. No marks of Chaos, And They Shall Know No Fear is a blurb on the side to optionally refer to; even the Librarian doesn't have listed powers in his unit entry, or have the Psyker special rule-- they're included as part of mission special rules in the scenarios he's used in. So I wouldn't necessarily worry too much about how the Chaplain is presented.


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## Majere613 (Oct 14, 2008)

The Son of Horus said:


> Chaplains already took a hard nerf by having their Crozius be a Power Maul, in my opinion. Conferring Preferred Enemy isn't necessarily a nerf, though-- yeah, it's not as good as re-rolling misses on the charge on turns you charge, but it provides you with a benefit for units that are more likely to get charged than be charging, like Tactical Squads (who are going to be shooting their bolters most of the time.) So its kind of a mixed thing.


Now oddly enough I'm not too bothered by the Crozius thing. It makes them worse vs MEQ, of course, but the strength bonus is very nice and against armies like Dark Eldar or Orks the AP4 is less of an issue.
My worry is that they may be setting Interrogator-Chaplains up as anti Chaos Marine specialists, which certainly works with the background, but being specifically anti-CM would make them very unlikely to appear in any 'all comers' list which is how I prefer to play.



The Son of Horus said:


> I wouldn't read too heavily into the rules presented for models in Dark Vengeance though-- a lot of things were left out for simplicity's sake, just like in every starter box. No marks of Chaos, And They Shall Know No Fear is a blurb on the side to optionally refer to; even the Librarian doesn't have listed powers in his unit entry, or have the Psyker special rule-- they're included as part of mission special rules in the scenarios he's used in. So I wouldn't necessarily worry too much about how the Chaplain is presented.


I'm hoping you're right- the reason I originally posted this where I did was that I was wondering how much insight into the new DA this set would give us. At least they made the Librarian LD 10 at long last!


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I would ignore all rules for units printed in the little booklet. They are not complete and not indicative of anything even slightly related to the Chaos and DA books, with the exception of cultists probably being in the Chaos book.


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

> My worry is that they may be setting Interrogator-Chaplains up as anti Chaos Marine specialists, which certainly works with the background, but being specifically anti-CM would make them very unlikely to appear in any 'all comers' list which is how I prefer to play.


I agree preferred enemy is better than "reroll to hits on the charge" fluff wise, however I don't think Chaplains will be C:SM specific, unless the direction of the next C:SM codex is to be the Antagonists of everyone on a much larger and darker scale.

Overall I'd be happy with a change of Preferred Enemy as long as as you chose what the "Preferred" actually was at the beginning of a game.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

According to the novel chaplains actually hide away trying to make 10,000 year old traitors talk as opposed to leaving them locked up in the cells while leading a fight to take yet more enemies.

So losing fearless and getting penalised in other rules is probably a new lore change.

I am joking though, but according Christian Dunns mini CV, there should be no reason why he is able to write introductory novella. 100000 Greenskins died to avenge the loss of a Chaplain and his Honour Guard at the hands of a single company. That same company is killed in 10 minutes fighting a nid infestation. Then 2 Veteran marines are killed in a 2 minute skirmish with a half dozen cultists. Fuck Goto. This guy needs molesting by a land raider.


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

all modern day fluff - Ignore (unless Kelly writes it).

I think it's a balance issue, so that the DA don't have another powerful model running around in such small games.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Question 1: Is it written by Dan Abnett? Yes/No
Question 2: Is it written by Graham McNeill? Yes/No

The answer to those questions will tell you if it is worth reading or not. If the answers are "No" then it *probably* could be used as toilet paper and not be missed.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Is it mcneill, I would argue as toilet paper worthy.

And including ADB there Seth?


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## Archon Dan (Feb 6, 2012)

Unless Chaos becomes uber powerful with the update, Preferred Enemy: Chaos Marine is not terribly useful It will work nice with Dark Vengeance but many players pick a Loyalist Marine book and make a "renegade army." But having a situational Preferred Enemy, while fluffy means you might forget about it in the games it works. We'll just have to see the new codexes.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Is it mcneill, I would argue as toilet paper worthy.
> 
> And including ADB there Seth?


I don't know, I liked his HH stuff, particularly Fulgrim, and some of his Ultramarines books had great humour in them (although obviously would have been cooler if they weren't about Ultramarines).

First Heretic was in the "Meh" catagory of HH so far (not as bad as the Dark Angels stuff, but nowhere near approaching Prospero Burns et al) and Helsreach I struggled to finish (which you know is the mark of a very, very bad book, because I normally finish everything I read). Haven't read any of his Chaos stuff.


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## IanC (Sep 3, 2010)

Its for the starter set. Look at the Hellbrute - it has no special rules at all, which doesn't make sense for a Chaos dreadnaught. And IIRC the dark angels are missing And They Shall Know No Fear, and the Chosen are missing Fearless.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

Majere613 said:


> Got my DV sets today, and as I was digging eagerly through it I found the card insert for Interrogator-Chaplain Seraphicus. As you'd expect, it lists his rules and wargear.
> 
> Here's the thing: no Litanies of Hate. Instead, he has 'Litanies of the Dark Angels' which is basically Preferred Enemy: Chaos Space Marines. He doesn't have Honour of the Chapter or Fearless either.
> 
> Now of course this might just be for various purposes of balance for the DV set, but if this is the way interrogator-chaplains are going to be in the new codex DA, then they might just have achieved the seemingly impossible and made the Dark Angels _worse_.


 
Actually you can read the current Dark Angels Codex and rename Seraphicus to another name and still play him as an Interrogator Chaplain with all options, same as any independent character, you can rename them and still have all the rules, it ain't rocket science.


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## Pandawithissues... (Dec 2, 2007)

Sethis said:


> I don't know, I liked his HH stuff, particularly Fulgrim, and some of his Ultramarines books had great humour in them (although obviously would have been cooler if they weren't about Ultramarines).
> 
> First Heretic was in the "Meh" catagory of HH so far (not as bad as the Dark Angels stuff, but nowhere near approaching Prospero Burns et al) and Helsreach I struggled to finish (which you know is the mark of a very, very bad book, because I normally finish everything I read). Haven't read any of his Chaos stuff.


Fulgrim was awful. Let's rely on a McGuffin to turn fulgrim to chaos because McNeil can't write anything remotely characterful or subtle to save his life. As soon as he picks up the sword, it's all over, it's not his fault. He wasn't tempted by anything. Awful awful novel, and the last non Abnett GW novel I bothered to read.

Abnett or bust now.


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

I actually really enjoyed Fulgrim; I definately liked the nod to Dorian Grey and the illustration of just how insidious Chaos is, and just how unprepared the Emperor was in not telling the primarchs about this stupidly powerful enemy.

Apologies for going off topic btw

Neway, power mauls being AP4.........what in fluff terms decides why a power maul can't penetrate marine armour? Is it due to being a blunt weapon or a smaller battery?


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

You could simply convert the Power Maul into a Crozius and rename your Interrogator Chaplain some other name, you know it is allowed.


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## BozlyLittle (Jul 3, 2011)

Orochi said:


> all modern day fluff - Ignore (unless Kelly writes it).
> 
> I think it's a balance issue, so that the DA don't have another powerful model running around in such small games.


counter attack! I'll take a normal chaplain!

Ya I read his rules. He's a nice model... Other than that he's just a chaplain. His rules are just.... They're just crap. Not worth the paper they're printed on. Just run him as a normal chaplain with a plasma pistol and you'll be fine.


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