# Daemonhunter inquisitors wear space marine power armour?



## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

I've seen models of daemonhunter inquisitors wearing power armour that looks a lot like space marine power armour?

are some of the daemonhunter inquisitors drawn from the Grey Knights? In the comic Daemonifuge,the inquisitors wear space marine armour too, but it's never said whether the inquistors are of space marine stock


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

They're wearing Power Armour but that doesnt mean it's the same Pattern Power Armour as worn by Adeptus Astartes (Space Marines), even if it was the same type it wouldn't mean they were Space Marines.

I can wear Knightly Armour, doesn't make me a Medieval Nobleman


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## chromedog (Oct 31, 2007)

No, Inquisitors are NOT of space marine stock (hence the no T4 on most of them), they are of unenhanced 'normal' human stock. They are generally recruited from Schola Progenium/Imperial Citizens of proven background, but they lack the SM implants and psycho-conditioning which is what truly makes a space marine what he is. 

The models wearing 'SM' PA is simply so that it is easier to custom build one from stock parts. Easier for the manufacturer, too.

It is not SM PA in the strictest sense. SM armour is a relic from an earlier age. Other PA (like that of the Sisters), is a more basic, stripped down design. Yes, it probably still has most of the same functions (target acquisition, enhanced protection and essentially carries itself ) and may be controlled through a 'mind-impulse link' rather than a full Black Carapace interface suite, but it is NOT SM power armour.


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## Prince Endymion (Sep 19, 2009)

chromedog said:


> No, Inquisitors are NOT of space marine stock (hence the no T4 on most of them), they are of unenhanced 'normal' human stock. They are generally recruited from Schola Progenium/Imperial Citizens of proven background, but they lack the SM implants and psycho-conditioning which is what truly makes a space marine what he is.
> 
> The models wearing 'SM' PA is simply so that it is easier to custom build one from stock parts. Easier for the manufacturer, too.
> 
> It is not SM PA in the strictest sense. SM armour is a relic from an earlier age. Other PA (like that of the Sisters), is a more basic, stripped down design. Yes, it probably still has most of the same functions (target acquisition, enhanced protection and essentially carries itself ) and may be controlled through a 'mind-impulse link' rather than a full Black Carapace interface suite, but it is NOT SM power armour.


That's not 100% true

Inquisitors have access to anything they need to do their work. If an Inquisitor feels safer in PA than by golly he'll get some. 

Given that the Inquisition has strong ties to the Ordo Maleus and the Ordo Hereticus, they may requisition any variant of armry from either, or simply have armor custom made for them. 

You are corret in that Inquisitors are not Space Marines. They have no Black Carapce, Geneseed, second heart, or third lung. But they may undergo whatever genetic procedures they choose, and often have enhanced vision, hearing, and mental prowess with the aid of cogitators, retinal oculobes and what not.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> I can wear Knightly Armour, doesn't make me a Medieval Nobleman


if space marine armour fits an inquisitor, the inquisitor is either really big for a regular human or possibly a space marine

i'm assuming that unless a person is 7 feet tall and built like a tank, space marine armour is way too big for him


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Ordo Malleus Inquisitors can be equipped with Termi armour at the moment. Along with being able to be given PA, we can assume that there are small-scale versions of what the Astartes wear.
Also, as Prince said, without the Black Carapace the SMs have, wearing such armour will give enhanced protection, and maybe some added speed and strength, but nothing close to what the Astartes can get from wearing PA/TDA. It's one thing to have artificial muscles aiding your movement; it's quite another to be able to make those muscle work just like your own by plugging them into your nervous system.

GFP


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## CaptainLoken (May 13, 2009)

They can be genetically modified so they may not be SM but can still be bulked up to a degree. Also some SM have gone in to the inquisition.


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## kaled (Jun 24, 2008)

Prince Endymion said:


> Given that the Inquisition has strong ties to the Ordo Maleus and the Ordo Hereticus, they may requisition any variant of armry from either, or simply have armor custom made for them.


I may have misundertood what you wrote (apologies if that is the case), but it sounds like you're confusing the Ordos and their Chambers Militant. The Ordos are one of the primary ways by which Inquisitors group themselves to share resources, and one of the resources of the Ordos Majoris are the Chambers Militant (the Grey Knights, Sororitas & Deathwatch).

Inquisitorial Authority is absolute - an Inquisitor can technically requisition anything he wants from anyone in the Imperium, he's not restricted solely to obtaining equipment from the Chamber Militant of his Ordo (if indeed he is even a member of an Ordo). Technically he could requisition armour from any chapter if he saw fit, or demand it from the AdMech. One likely reason for an Inquisitor to wear armour styled after that worn by the Astartes would be to identify himself with those crusading angels of death, to make him seem more impressive in the eyes of those under his command.



CaptainLoken said:


> Also some SM have gone in to the inquisition.


I'm not aware of any Astartes actually becoming Inquisitors, although there is speculation that at the end of the Heresy some marines helped found the Inquisition, but no where does it say they became the first Inquisitiors so we don't have enough evidence to definitively say either way. (Unless you have some evidence I haven't seen.)


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## Skye (Oct 22, 2008)

In Lord of Night, the Inquisitor is mentioned as wearing power armour, but it describes how off-kilter he was in it. I'm pretty sure it talks about how he lacks the abilities of Space Marines and therefore has a harder time moving around in it.


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## Prince Endymion (Sep 19, 2009)

kaled said:


> I may have misundertood what you wrote (apologies if that is the case), but it sounds like you're confusing the Ordos and their Chambers Militant. The Ordos are one of the primary ways by which Inquisitors group themselves to share resources, and one of the resources of the Ordos Majoris are the Chambers Militant (the Grey Knights, Sororitas & Deathwatch).


The term "Chamber Militant" seems to be confusing a lot of people. The Inquisition, The Ordo Hereticus, the Ordo Maleus, and the Ordo Xenos are all completely seperate organizations. The Inquisition opperates like cells, with individual Inquisitors acting independantly in different places all the time, with their own retinues and personal resources. 

From time to time, the Inquisitors find themselves outgunned, outmanned, or in some other way in need of assistance. It times such as these, the often call upon the Witch Hunters or the Daemon Hunters. 

The two Ordos have agreements with the Inquisition and will always ansewr their calls for aid, but they have their own agendas and goals that they persue.



kaled said:


> I'm not aware of any Astartes actually becoming Inquisitors, although there is speculation that at the end of the Heresy some marines helped found the Inquisition, but no where does it say they became the first Inquisitiors so we don't have enough evidence to definitively say either way. (Unless you have some evidence I haven't seen.)


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Actually Prince you're rather incorrect there- the Inquisition is the organisation of which the Ordos Malleus, Hereticus, and Xenos are a part of.

They aren't separate organisations- they're the *exact same* institution.

Inquisitors may join one of these Ordos Majoris and specialise their service to the persecution of a particular threat, i.e a member of the Ordo Malleus will still execute Xenos and Heretics but they're more accomplished at facing warp spawn et al....

There are numerous Ordos, the 3 mentioned above are the largest, but you have Segmentum Ordos, Sector Ordos (Ordo Scarus for example), Ordos that combat a very narrow field. Things like that, but at the end of the day all the Ordos are part of the Inquisition not separate entities.


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## kaled (Jun 24, 2008)

Prince Endymion said:


> The Inquisition, The Ordo Hereticus, the Ordo Maleus, and the Ordo Xenos are all completely seperate organizations.


I know there's quite a bit of contradictory information out there about the Inquisition, but I've never seen anything to suggest that the Ordos are seperate organisations to the Inquisition - if you could cite a source that would be much appreciated.

The Ordos are the primary means by which Inquisitors organise themselves. They're basically groups of Inquisitors dedicated to combatting a particular threat who have clubbed together to share resources. It is said that most Inquisitors are members of an Ordo, but an Inquisitor can choose not to join one (in which case though he will not have access to their specialised resources).



> The two Ordos have agreements with the Inquisition and will always ansewr their calls for aid, but they have their own agendas and goals that they persue.


Two Ordos? There are a lot more than two - Xenos, Malleus, Hereticus, Sepulturum and Sicarius are just the most well known ones, but there are said to be quite an unknown number of others.



> The term "Chamber Militant" seems to be confusing a lot of people.


In that case, how would you describe the Chambers Militant and the Ordos?



> you have Segmentum Ordos, Sector Ordos


According to _Dark Heresy_, an Ordo is a group set up to combat a specific threat. Strictly speaking the above are regional Conclaves. For example, the Ordos Helican is a collective name for the members of the Holy Ordos operating in the Helican sub-sector, rather than an Ordo.

In support of my above statements, Lexicanum has a pretty good description of the Inquisition which cites (almost) all of it's sources;
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Inquisition


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## Prince Endymion (Sep 19, 2009)

I would define an Chamber Militant as a military body obviously, but unlike most, it is self sustained. There is no outside force governing the chamber, and it answers only to its own leaders. The Ordo Hereticus and the Ordo Maleus are exempt from the Cult of the Emperor, pay not tithes to the Imperium, and are so shrouded in secrecy that 99% of humanity has no knowledge of their existance. The Inquisition is no exception, and very few Inquisitors even know of them.

The Codex: Witch Hunters, details the relationship between the Ordos and the Inquisition more clearly than the Codex: Daemon Hunters, but they are essentially the same in all but method. 

I'll cite pages 4 and 5 of the Codex: Witch Hunters details how the the Inquisition secretly ordered the creation of a new faction hidden within the Ministorum that would keep watch over it and ensure that it did not become corrupt the way it had in the Age of Apostacy. it has ties to the Inquisition through its formation, but remains a seperate organization.

The same is true of the Ordo Maleus, which was created at the behest of the emperor just prior to the attack on Terra.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

*Sigh* Prince- both Ordos are part of the Inquisition.

The Ordo Hereticus was set up as a Ordo Majoris in order to watch the Ministorum and the rest of the Inquisition itself for signs of Heresy, whilst the Ordo Malleus is the major body of the Inquisiton specifically tasked with combating Chaos and Daemons in all their forms.

The only Chamber Militants which answer solely to their Ordos are the Deathwatch and the Grey Knights, both of which are only despatched on Inquisitorial permission. The Adeptus Sororitas are the militant arm of the Church of the Emperor but also have the joint role of being the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus.

Of course the majority of Inquisitors know of the exsistence of these 3 major Ordos, they probably don't know all the Ordos inner workings but even those not members of these Ordos have some knowledge of their exsistence.

The only organisations defined as being semi-autonomous from the Cult of the God-Emperor are the Astartes and the Mechanicus and then only because the former are utterly loyal to the Emperor and in some diluted way his 'divine' blood runs through their veins and the latter because they worship the Emperor as the Machine God. You'd *HAVE* to be a member of the Church of the Emperor to be in the Ordo Malleus/Hereticus/Xenos.


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## Prince Endymion (Sep 19, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> *Sigh* Prince- both Ordos are part of the Inquisition.
> 
> The Ordo Hereticus was set up as a Ordo Majoris in order to watch the Ministorum and the rest of the Inquisition itself for signs of Heresy, whilst the Ordo Malleus is the major body of the Inquisiton specifically tasked with combating Chaos and Daemons in all their forms.
> 
> ...


I don't see anything I can say being able to illustrate what I mean, so all I can do is direct you to the Witch Hunters Codex. 

I personally don't like many of the novels, no matter how well received they may be with their fans. The books freuently contradict the codecies and in my mind, the codecies always win.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Well looking at the Witch Hunters Codex (specifically Pages 4 & 5 as you suggested) seems to support my case rather than yours, it refers to the Ordo Hereticus as being a branch of the Inquisition more than once.

Also the info we have isn't just from novels, it from the Codeci and the Inquisitor Rulebook.


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## Prince Endymion (Sep 19, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> Well looking at the Witch Hunters Codex (specifically Pages 4 & 5 as you suggested) seems to support my case rather than yours, it refers to the Ordo Hereticus as being a branch of the Inquisition more than once.
> 
> Also the info we have isn't just from novels, it from the Codeci and the Inquisitor Rulebook.


It all seems pretty fresh in my mind, but I've been wrong before so I won't put it past myself to be remembering it incorrectly. I'll double check.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

yeah I'm pretty sure the Ordo Malleus, Ordo Hereticus, and Ordo Xenos are three major branches *of* the Inquisition


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

The Ordo Malleus, Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Xenos are all part of the Inquisition they are just different groups specialising in certain areas just like the difference between NSA and CIA in America and MI5 and MI6 over here. 

The Inquisition is primarily an investigative force but with extreme authoritative power. When a large amount of military force is required an Inquisitor has the right to requisition whatever he wants, often he/she will need an armed force which has expertise in the same area in which they operate.......So...
Each Ordo has strong ties to a chamber militant, a military organisation which specialises in dealing with certain foes.

The Ordo Malleus - can call upon the Grey Knights who are soley recruited trained and equipped to deal with enemies using the Warp.

The Ordo Xenos - uses the Deathwatch, a marine force which drawers on the veterans from any marine chapters.

The Ordo Hereticus - Uses the Sisters of Battle. The Sisters situation is more complex since they also have strong ties to the ministorium (who the Hereticus are also tasked to monitor).


On the subject of power armour, Inquisitors can use power or terminator armour which might look like that worn by Marines but the difference is internal.


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## Klomster (Oct 9, 2008)

If we take the difference in warhammer 40k dark heresy roleplaying game.

The story difference, and rules there.

Power armour, "civilian" or for example SOB power armour has an armour value of 8.
A normal flak has 3 and stormtrooper carapace has 6, a power armour also gives plus in strength and other bonuses.

The high armour value and the ability to carry bigger guns, is very good.

An astartes power armour, has 12 in armour value, gives more strength bonus if irecall correctly and is worn by a space marine, who generally make minced meat of enything that gets in their way.

In 40k miniature game, the different versions of power armour is not really made different (all have 3+) for simplicity, but the less protection of the more human armours is rather shown trough the lesser toughness value of the wearers.

That's how i see it.


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## scmbpinto (Oct 7, 2009)

From what I have read Power Armour seems to only be worn by higher ranking members of the Inquisition. They lack the Black Carapace, so they lack the high degree of interfacing that a Space Marine has, but they still get the protection and some strength and other enhancements. A example being Torquemada Coteaz.


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## Atsuno11 (Jul 21, 2008)

Gonna say it right now, The Inquisition may be nearly all powerful but they CANNOT command a Space Marine chapter. They cannot go to a Space Marine chapter master, captain or even a sergeant and order him to do anything. 

Ok, so I think Prince is partially right. I do agree that the Ordos are all grouped with the Inquisition, but I think that Prince is correct in that the Inquisition operate in cells, the Imperium is simply to large to keep track of every inquistor. 


As for the topic of this thread, yes they have power armour, the reasons have been stated. 

Oh, and power armour isn't an ancient set of equipment they don't know how to make, that is Terminator armour. As far as I know, the Mk VII Power Armour is a very recent creation of the Imperium, so it seems likely most Inquistors would be in a suite similiar too that, or a Mk VI version. (As these would be the easiest to get their hands on, having them made would be in an Inquistors level of power)


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

scmbpinto said:


> From what I have read Power Armour seems to only be worn by higher ranking members of the Inquisition. They lack the Black Carapace, so they lack the high degree of interfacing that a Space Marine has, but they still get the protection and some strength and other enhancements. A example being Torquemada Coteaz.


so inquisitor power armour is probably more similar to sisters of battle power armour than it is to space marine power armour


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Whilst you could class MkVII Power Armour as newer than than MkVI (obviously) it's still been around for a fair few thousand years, even the newest Mk of Armour- MkVIII- has been around for centuries.
Plus Terminator Armour can still be produced it's just such a small number of Forge Worlds have the capability (it might even just be Mars who can), and it takes such an incredibly lengthy time to produce, that's its a rarity when compared to even the scarce number of Power Armour suits in exsistence.

I don't think anyone is disputing that Inquisitors, for the most part, operate in semi-autonomous cells.


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## kaled (Jun 24, 2008)

scmbpinto said:


> From what I have read Power Armour seems to only be worn by higher ranking members of the Inquisition.


Remember that there are no 'ranks' in the Inquisition as there are in a military organisation. All Inquisitors have equal authority, but some have garnered more influence and political power over their career and these are sometimes recognised with titles such as 'Lord Inquisitor', 'Inquisitor Lord' or 'High
Inquisitor', and often take on roles of responsibility such as marshalling the resources of an Ordo, or heading a Conclave or Cabal (and thus they may gain yet more influence over their peers). Any Inquisitor has authority to requisition anything he wants, including power armour, but whether he has the contacts and influence to get what he wants, when he wants it, is another question.



Atsuno11 said:


> Gonna say it right now, The Inquisition may be nearly all powerful but they CANNOT command a Space Marine chapter. They cannot go to a Space Marine chapter master, captain or even a sergeant and order him to do anything.


Do you have a source for that? The Inquisitorial Mandate does give Inquisitors authority over the Astartes, but enforcing that authority over a chapter of heavily armed supermen can be problematic so it's generally the case that an Inquisitor will 'request' help from a chapter rather than order it (but he's fully-entitled to order it if he should so choose). The relationship between the Inquisition and the Astartes (and the internal organisation of the Inquisition) is perhaps best described in Gav Thorpe's _Thorian Sourcebook _for _Inquisitor_.


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## revenant13 (Feb 15, 2008)

Kaled, its actually in another thread that Inquisitors cannot order Astartes around. sorry i cant recall exactly which. I remember though that it was generally agreed that Astartes would help out regardless cause itd look really bad if an inquisitor goes like "Help me save the Imperium" and the chapter responds "No". although they can expect some chapters wont help unless the chapter itself is at stake like the SW or DA cause they find the inquisition to be nosey or just plain foppish pricks.

and there are ranks within the inquisition, just not many (i think). an inquisitor lord outranks an inquisitor. it goes a little higher than that (at least) from what i understand. There will be one chief inquisitor in charge of an entire subsector and every inquisitor operating in that subsector _has_ to answer to him, though i cant remember what the rank is called. below him are head inquisitors in charge of each of the ordos in the subsector. then from what i understand it branches out into inquisitors and inquisitor lords from there. they dont directly talk about it, but its implied in the _Eisenhorn_ novels. although never mentioned anywhere, from what i know, i dont see why it couldnt go higher than that either.


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

here are obviously ranks within the Inquisition, otherwise a servitor would have as much power as an Inquisitor (yes, I know Inquisitors have Servitors, but surely there must be some dude in the Inquisition ordering Servitors to do stuff i.e. interrogate people, clean an interrogation cell, torture somebody while interrogating them).

Technically speaking an Inquisitor has the right to order anyone around, except Space Marines are entirely independent, and as such have to be asked to help. Not only that, if the Space Marines think that it's an unworthy cause, or that it takes too many resources, or that the Inquisitor is renegade or something, they have every right to say no to the Inquisitor.

'Inquisitors have near unlimited power.' - Games Workshop

Key word here: near.

As for Power Armour, it would be more like the armour that the Sisters of Battle wear, seeing as how they have no implants and aren't 7 foot tall.


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## kaled (Jun 24, 2008)

revenant13 said:


> Kaled, its actually in another thread that Inquisitors cannot order Astartes around.


Does it quote a source for that assertion - it's a commonly held belief that the Inquisition has no power over the Astartes, but I haven't seen any canonical source to that effect, whereas I have seen one supporting my earlier assertion. To quote Gav Thorpe;
'Like the Inquisition itself, the Adeptus Astartes operate alongside the Imperium rather than as part of it. The Inquisition's power extends over the Space Marines, but the Chapters themselves are fiercely independent and not welcoming of outside investigators.' - Thorian Sourcebook, p24



> and there are ranks within the inquisition, just not many (i think). an inquisitor lord outranks an inquisitor. it goes a little higher than that (at least) from what i understand.


Again, to quote the same book;
'The Inquisition does not have formal organisation, and therefore there is no system of ranks or command as there are in the Adeptus Terra or the military.' - Thorian Sourcebook, p25
An Inquisitor Lord does not outrank an Inquisitor - he holds more respect and influence than an Inquisitor (in general). The Inquisitorial Representative is an Inquisitor Lord, chosen from among the Lords of the sectors surrounding Holy Terra, but he has no more authority than even the most newly promoted Inquisitor however his position at the heart of Inquisitorial politics can bring him far more actual power than most Inquisitors.



> There will be one chief inquisitor in charge of an entire subsector and every inquisitor operating in that subsector _has_ to answer to him, though i cant remember what the rank is called. below him are head inquisitors in charge of each of the ordos in the subsector. then from what i understand it branches out into inquisitors and inquisitor lords from there.


Yes, there is an informal hierarchy to the Inquisition, I don't dispute that, but don't mistake that informal hierarchy which has grown up and expanded over millennia of tradition for a formal one. An Inquisitor is _supposed_ to report his activities to the Inquisitor Lord (sometimes known as a Grandmaster) who runs the regional Conclave covering the area of space in which he operates, however many do not bother with such formalities.

The same/similar is also stated in things like _The Inquisition_ encyclopedia, the _Dark Heresy_ books, _Rogue Trader_ etc.

The Ordos may be slightly different however, the Ordo Malleus is said to have a formal hierarchy - we do not know whether the same is true of other Ordos. So when dealing with his Ordo, a daemonhunter will fit into a rigid, formal hierarchy, but as an Inquisitor he is part of the same informal hierarchy as everyone else and it is his reputation and influence which determines where he fits into the 'hierarchy'



Cato Sicarius said:


> here are obviously ranks within the Inquisition, otherwise a servitor would have as much power as an Inquisitor


Yes, I was just talking about Inquisitors, but the Inquisition does have all manner of minions - some employed directly by the Inquisition or an Ordo/cabal/call/etc, others in the employ of a specific Inquisitor. There are formal hierarchies for these.



> Technically speaking an Inquisitor has the right to order anyone around, except Space Marines are entirely independent


Again, do you have a source to back up that assertion? I'm more than happy to debate the evidence.


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## BlackApostleVilhelm (May 14, 2008)

i was under the impression that inquisitors could order anyone they want around and do anything they want with the Imperium and those answerable to the Imperium. but because Astartes are only answerable to the Emperor they have no control over them, yes they can ask them for help but whether or not they get that help is entirely up to the chapter. cant remember where i heard this but i believed it was common knowledge for everyone.


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## kaled (Jun 24, 2008)

BlackApostleVilhelm said:


> cant remember where i heard this but i believed it was common knowledge for everyone.


It does seem to be common knowledge, but I'm not sure that it's common knowledge backed up by evidence - it may be one of those things that everyone _knows _but that isn't actually true.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were conflicting statements in the canon, but I've only seen the statement I posted earlier that states the Inquisition *does* have authority over the Astartes. I've seen a few statements that could be taken either way, but nothing that explicitly states the Inquisitorial Mandate does not cover the Astartes. As I said, I'm happy to debate the evidence if someone can produce some quotes to support their assertion that an Inquisitor cannot order the Astartes around - but if they can't, then I'm going to stick to believing that bit from Gav Thorpe's _Thorian Sourcebook_.

EDIT: The same goes for the AdMech, it seems to be common 'knowledge' that the Inquisition has no authority over them on account of them sometimes being described as being akin to an allied empire, but I can think of two quotes that disagree and state that the Inquisition *does *have authority - one in one of the old Epic books (_Codex Titanicus _I think) and the other in _Dark Adeptus_, whereas I can't find a single one that says they don't have authority.

Again, if anyone has quotes from the canon to back up the position that the Inquisition doesn't have authority over the Astartes/AdMech, please post them.


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